a sermon preached at the funeral of mr. francis mitchel, who dyed the 19th, and was buried the 24th of july, 1671 lloyd, william, 1627-1717. 1671 approx. 31 kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from 21 1-bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : 2004-11 (eebo-tcp phase 1). a48837 wing l2702a estc r20394 12402700 ocm 12402700 61308 this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons 0 1.0 universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase 1, no. a48837) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set 61308) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, 1641-1700 ; 767:27) a sermon preached at the funeral of mr. francis mitchel, who dyed the 19th, and was buried the 24th of july, 1671 lloyd, william, 1627-1717. [2], 38 p. printed by thomas milbourn for thomas johnson, london : 1671. reproduction of original in huntington library. created by converting tcp files to tei p5 using tcp2tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between 1473 and 1700 available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the 25,363 texts created during phase 1 of the project have been released into the public domain as of 1 january 2015. anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. 5% (or 5 pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of 100 instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level 4 of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p5, characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng mitchel, francis, d. 1671. bible. -o.t. -psalms xxxvii, 37 -sermons. funeral sermons. sermons, english -17th century. 2003-11 tcp assigned for keying and markup 2003-12 spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images 2004-08 melanie sanders sampled and proofread 2004-08 melanie sanders text and markup reviewed and edited 2004-10 pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a sermon preached at the funeral of m r. francis mitchel , who dyed the 19th . and was buried the 24th . of iuly , 1671. the memory of the iust is blessed , prov. 10. 7. london , printed by thomas milbourn , for thomas iohnson , 1671. a sermon preached at the funeral of mr. f. m. psal. 37. 37. mark the perfect man , and behold the upright , for the end of that m'an is peace . this whole psalm was designed , saies the syriack translation , for the resolving of that question , which hath often troubled good men , and somtimes david himself , as he confesseth , psal. 73. 2 , &c. why god , the almighty and most just god , doth not speedily in this life , take vengeance of ungodly and wicked men . whereas , on the other hand , it is often-times seen , that good men are punisht , and chastend , and plagued , as david complain'd that himself was , psal. 73.14 .. and his son solomon observed it in his time , eccl. 8.14 .. there be iust men ( saith he ) to whom it happens according to the work of the wicked . again , there be wicked men , to whom it happens according to the work of the righteous , this is vanity , saith the epicurean , whom solomon there personates ; 't is vanity to make any distinction , or to trouble ones head with it , or to do any thing else , than to eat and drink and be merry , and let things go which way they will. but saies solomon of himself in the last verse of the chapter , i beheld the work of god in it , who orders things as he pleases ; and what he doth we ought to submit to it , and why he doth it , is past our finding out . nor doth david pretend to say , why god doth thus or thus ; we shall know that most distinctly and particularly hereafter . 't is at present sufficient to know , that he doth it , who is a god of infinite , unspeakable , incomprehensible wisdom , who is most just in those things where he seems most remiss ; who is most merciful , even then when he seems most severe , and most rigorous ; who , as st. austin saies , is so good , that he would not suffer any evil to be done , but that he is also so wise , that he can turn that evil to a greater good. if any man be unsatisfied with this reason of gods doings , it is because he himself is unreasonable , as david confesseth he had been when time was , psal. 73.22 . so foolish was i and ignorant , i was as a beast before thee . 't is unreasonable to expect that every thing must be set right within a few years , or else to conclude it will never be . our few years are but as a moment before god. to him a thousand years are but as one day ; yea , they are as nothing in respect of eternity . we shall be wiser if we go into the sanctuary of god , that is , if we consult with divine revelation ; then we shall know what the end of every thing is , and it is a wise mans rule , not to judge of any thing till the end. he that judgeth by a part of any thing , shall often see himself confuted by the end of it . therefore david so much insists upon this , as if he had expresly said ; tell not me of any ones beginning , tell not me how he thrives and prospers in the world , or what crosses he hath in the course of this life . there is no judging of a tree but by his fruit , nor of a ship till you see it in the haven , nor of a man till you have seen his end. mark the perfect man , and behold the upright , for the end of that man is peace . but the transgressors shall be destroyed together , the end of the wicked shall be cut off . half this will serve me at this time , for my business is only with the perfect and upright man. i shall shew you who he is , and how we are to observe him , and what we shall find by him ; all this in the words of my text : first , who he is that david speaks of , the perfect and the upright man. i shall speak of these words severally , & then bring them together ; for they signifie one and the same thing ; they are the description of a faithful servant of god. he is exprest by two names , to answer those two words , observe and , behold , which as kimchi conceives , are to be taken distributively . as if david had said , mark every individual servant of god. first observe one , then look upon another , and so throughout the whole number ; you shall find that their end is happy . there is not one of them , but whatsoever his life was , he is happy in his death , the end of that man is peace . it is the opinion of others , that , by thus doubling his words , david meant we should double our care in the observation . as if he had said , mark the just man , and keep a good eye upon him ; you may lose him in a cloud of affliction ; and then you may conclude , that he is gone , that god hath cast him out of his sight , and that he will remember him no more ; but it is no such thing ; if you keep your eye upon him , if you follow him home to the mark , you shall surely find , and you cannot but observe , that the end of that man is peace . the end , may signifie the last part of ones life , or it may signifie another life after death . of one , or both these it is promised , that it shall be peace to the righteous ; 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 not only peace , but the perfection of happiness . this was promised to the righteous in this life , according to the letter of the jews law ; but under that was contained a mystical sence , on which they rather depended . they were not so confident of any thing in this world , as they were of a happy and blessed immortality . much less should we christians , to whom god hath much more clearly revealed it , as st. paul saith ( 2 tim. 1. 10. ) he hath brought life and immortality to light by the gospel . i having thus designed the method of my discourse , i shall now consider each part in it's order . we are to speak of the perfect and of the upright man , by which words the iews meant him that lived according to their law. him they called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is , perfect , wanting nothing to make him a holy or a righteous man. for their law was perfect , converting souls ; that is , making them like it , which lived according to the rules of it . and therefore , of those gems which the priest wore in his breast-plate , and were called urim and thummim ; that is , lights and perfections : as that which was called urim , or lights , was a pledge from god of his illumination , for the resolving of questions concerning civil affairs , while they were a theocracy , under the government of god ; so the other stone was called thummim , that is , perfections , in token of his perfect knowledge of the law of god ; which ( as st. paul said long after that token had ceast , but perhaps alluding to it , 2 tim. 3. ver . ult . ) was enough to make the man of god , perfect , throughly furnisht to every good work . the word upright in my text , is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 straight in the hebrew . now , that is straight which is according to the rule . so that the law of god being considered as the rule of our life , he that walks by this rule , is called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a straight , or an upright man. thus all israel was called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 deut. 33. 5. and in other places ; to signifie not so much what they were , as what they should be ; how they ought to be straight , according to that rule which god had given them . thus balaam speaking by the spirit of god , called that nation 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 numb . 23.10 . insomuch that this title in my text , is the very same in effect that our saviour gave to nathanael , john 1. 47. behold ( sayes he ) an israelite indeed , in whom there is no guile . both these words , according to this interpretation , signifie one and the same thing . he is a perfect man , and he is an upright man , that yields a hearty , constant , and uniform obedience to all the known commandements of god. fear god , and keep his commandements , says solomon ; this is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the whole duty of man , as it is in our translation , eccl. 12.13 . nay , according to the hebrew , it is the whole man ; so the septuagint renders it , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; so the vulgar latine , this is omnis homo . this is all that a man is to any purpose ; this is the substance and solidity , and life of him ; this is it that makes him a perfect man in holiness here , and in happiness hereafter . this was plainly the sense of these hebrew words in my text : but how these words are to be applied to a christian , i cannot easily shew you , without going higher , and spreading farther , through the whole use of the word perfection in scripture . there is an absolute perfection , which is onely the perfection of god. there is perfection in suo genere , which belongs to every one of his creatures . every creature is said to have perfection of parts , when it hath all things that are necessary and essential to its kind . and yet that which is perfect as to its parts , may be imperfect in degrees , in comparison with others of the same kind . to apply this to the moral and religious sense . in this sense , he is said to be a perfect man , that in all respects conforms himself to the will of god. he is in all points such a man as god made , and such as god would have all men to be . thus adam was perfect before the fall ; he was then free from sin ; he was perfectly such as god made him . but having contracted sin upon himself , and his posterity , there was need of a second adam , to obtain pardon for sin ; and that second adam was our lord iesus christ. by vertue of whose death , which he was to suffer , in the fulness of time , there was prepared for us , even from the beginning of the world , a new way to perfection ; not by living without sin , but by the pardon of sin to all them that conform themselves not exactly , but sincerely , and constantly , as far as they are able , to the reveal'd will of god. but the will of god was reveal'd by several degrees , to them that lived in several ages and dispensations . and perfection was still an uniform obedience to that will of god that was known to them in their age , and under their dispensation . it was thus in the patriarchical church , for above two thousand years before the law was given . they had then little else ( that we know of ) besides oral tradition . but whatsoever they had , they that lived according to it ; they were said to be perfect men ; that is , they were such as god required men to be under that dispensation . thus it is said of noah , gen. 6.9 . that he was perfect in his generation : that is , he observed both the natural law of god , and the divine institutions that then were , though he had not all that was known when the books of moses were written . he lived carefully , according to those rules of life in his time , and therefore is said to have been perfect in his generation . when god afterwards made his special covenant with abraham , and bound it upon him with the seal of circumcision , he prefaced it thus , gen. 17. 1. i am the almighty god , walk before me , and be thou perfect . from thence forward no man could be said to be perfect , i say none that descended out of abrahams loins could be perfect , without the seal of circumcision . for the iewes , when they had once received the written law of god ; then , ( besides their obligation to the natural religion , beside those positive laws to adam , and to noah , and to abraham ; i say , besides all these obligations ) it was required of them , that they should be conformable to the laws of moses . deut. 18.13 . sayes moses , thou shalt be perfect with the lord thy god. 't is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 with a great letter ; which the iewes say , is an extraordinary thing , there were but ten such before it in the five books of moses . which implyed , that there was more required to perfection in them , than in the nations from whom they were separated by that law. but , what shall we say to that place in heb. 7. 19. that the law made nothing perfect ? it means , as i have shewed you , perfect without sin , and this perfection was never attained by the law. it can be attain'd no otherwise by fallen man , but by christ , who is reveal'd to us in the gospel and for us , to whom this gospel is reveal'd , we are then said to be perfect , if we live according to the will of god , which is reveal'd to us in the gospel . that is in plain termes , if we are good christians , such as live according to our profession . so theophylact observes , that perfection in the gospel-sense , is no other than christianity it self . and iustin martyr interprets 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to be a christian ; that is , to conform our selves to the gospel . which is that acceptable , and that perfect will of god , rom. 12.2 . which is called that perfect law of liberty , james 1. 25. which is able to make us perfect unto every good work , heb. 13.21 . under each of these dispensations , there have been some that have been more perfect than others . and those which have been perfect in the main , those which had enough to bring them to heaven , yet are said to be imperfect in respect of some others that have excelled them in the knowledge of god , and in the practice of religion & vertue . this particularly appears in some instances of the gospel , where comparison is made between the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , between those that were newly converted , and those that were adult , well grounded and confirmed in religion . the first in each of these kinds being in comparison of the other as children in comparison of men : you know children , which are perfect in their kind , having all things essential to a man , are yet imperfect in comparison of them which are at mans estate . 't is the apostle to the hebrews that makes this comparison chap. 5. 2. last verses , and in chap. 6. 1. even so , the children of god are some much inferiour to others , in that imperfect perfection of which we are capable here upon earth . and yet the highest degree of which we are capable upon earth , is imperfection in comparison of the blessed saints in heaven . there is no perfect perfection but in heaven . what we have upon earth , is but a tendency towards it . it begins with a sence of imperfection , it grows somthing with an endeavour after perfection , it grows up to an earnest expectancy , which is the most that st. paul himself did pretend ; though he reckon'd himself among the perfect , as men are in this world ; yet perfection in this world must be with some allowance , as he shews you in the 12 th . verse of the 3 d. chapter to the philippians . not as though i ( sayes he ) had already obtained , or were already made perfect , but i follow after , &c. if st. paul were affraid to say he was perfect , who shall dare to say or think it of himself ? sayes chrysostom . which of us can be perfect as st. paul was ? sayes st. austin . yet he sayes , brethren , i do not think my self to be already perfect ; only , i would be so , i do what i can that i may be so ; i follow after , in hope that i may overtake it , that i may attain to it , that i may be perfect at last , which cannot be here , but in heaven . it cannot be in this life , sayes the apostle ; for here we know but in part , 1 cor. 13. 9. and verse 10. when that which is perfect is come , then that which is in part shall be done away . here we are perfect in christ , sayes the apostle , col. 1. 28. we are so in the imputation of his righteousness , and in gods gracious acceptation through him . but in our selves we are not perfect , but perfecting ; 2 cor. 7. 1. perfecting holiness in the fear of god ; cleansing our selves from all filthiness of flesh and spirit ; striving against every lust , and being careful not to come under the dominion of any ; warring against the devil , the world , and the flesh ; applying our selves to every duty of religion and vertue ; working daily to repair the decaies of the divine image , and to make up in our selves the lineaments and resemblances of god. this is called the perfecting of the saints , eph. 4. 12. yet we are but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; when we come where the original is , when we know as we are known , when we see as we are seen , then we shall be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 made perfect , heb. 12. 23. happy they , who are thus imperfectly perfect upon earth , for , they shall be made perfectly perfect in heaven . their end shall be peace , sayes the psalmist . their end here is in the hebrew 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which signifies properly somthing to come after ; whether in this life or in the future , that is alwayes to be understood by the connexion . gen. 49. 1. iacob tels his sons what shall happen 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the last part of the age of that nation ; there it signifies plainly the last part of this life . it elsewhere plainly signifies the estate of the future life . numb . 23. 10. there says balaam 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 let my soul go out of this world as the righteous doth , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and let my latter end be like his . i should rather interpret it thus ; what is to come after death , may it be with me as it is with him . this seems to me the most literal interpretation . and yet with a iew i should not contend about it . for , though the iews say they had no promises in their law which were expresly of the things of a future life ; yet they freely acknowledg , that even the promises of this life were to be understood as types and shadows of the future . in the promise they say there is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; a plain sence belonging to things of this life , and a mystical sence for the things of a future life . to judge how this is to be applyed to the promise in my text , we must first consider the thing that is here promised . 't is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which signifies , both perfection and peace , and every thing that is good . it signifies every thing that belongs to the perfection of ones being , every thing that belongs to his happiness and well being . among the hebrews their question was , when they asked how one did ; 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is all well ? their blessing at meeting was , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 peace be to thee . their blessing at parting , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 go in peace . there is nothing that can be wish'd one for his good , which is not comprehended in the blessing of peace . the first import of it is of corporeal things , because those are first considered in all languages . true it is , that god hath promised his children the enjoyment of all temporal blessings that are sutable to their condition . these temporal blessings are almost wholly insisted upon in the old testament , they are mentioned likewise in the new-testament in many places ; but still with a condition , that is sometimes exprest , but always understood , for the performing of these promises to us . that is , god will give us these temporal blessings , as far as they may consist with our spiritual welfare . and if he give not these temporal things , he will certainly make it up to us , in those better things which are spiritual and eternal . thus the servant of god hath a promise , that his days shall be long upon earth , in the fourth commandement . that he shall die in peace , that is , in his bed ; a quiet and natural death : that he shall see his childrens children , and peace upon israel . these things and many more are comprehended in the blessing of peace . and were so literally fulfilled to many servants of god in the old testament . david saw it plainly fulfilled , in the examples of ioseph , and iob , which were recorded in those scriptures that were extant in his age . and david himself was one more example , according to the literal sense of this promise . but it was not so with the son of david , our lord jesus christ ; with respect to whom , if for no other cause , we are obliged to lay hold on this promise in the spiritual sense . for we know that one may have the blessing of peace , that wants many , or even all of these temporal things ; and it shall be never the worse for him that they are wanting . nay , if things seem quite contrary to this promise ; yet god will not be worse than his word . it is the lord that hath spoken it , and he will make it good , to the perfect and to the upright , that the end of that man shall be peace . and now , suppose any thing to befal that can happen ; we are armed against all cross accidents in the world . ye cannot say nor suppose any thing too hard for gods power ; and if it be in gods power , he will surely make good his promise . what if one be snatch't away in the prime of his years ? what if he be cut off in the field of battel ? what if he leaves a miserable widow and children ? what if he leaves an embroil'd estate behind him ? what if he sees the church of god tottering , and ready to fall after him ? yet , if this be no fault of his , if it be the will and pleasure of god , thus to deal with the perfect and upright man to whom god made this promise in my text ; whatsoever circumstances he dies in , it is certain , that the end of that man is peace . there is one text that proves this , and there needs not a second ; 't is in 2 chron. 34. 28. where god promises iosiah , behold , i will gather thee to they fathers , and thou shalt be gathered to thy grave in peace . this god promised iosiah , you see , not only in the general words of my text , but also in an express and particular revelation from heaven . and yet will you see how god performed with him ? it lies before you in the history of iosias ; he dyed in all those sad circumstances that i mentioned . he was cropt off in the prime , and flower of his age ; he dyed a bloody death in the field of battel ; he left a desolate widow , and poor infants behind him ; and a bleeding state , a tottering church , a ruining kingdom ; what can be said more ? only this ; that if god said true , iosiah dyed in peace . but we are sure god is true . therefore to die in peace , we are sure , is somthing else than what the world would imagine . when god sayes , the end of that man is peace ; he means not that he shall die in his bed , he means not that he shall dye in a good old age , he means not that he shall have his wife and children about him , he means not that he shall leave sion in peace , and ierusalem in prosperity . he means none of those things which belong to this world ; but god means , he shall have that peace which the world cannot give . it is so . for this world is only for temporal things , but the peace of the perfect and upright man is spiritual and eternal . first , there is a spiritual peace , that is made for him in this life . wheresoever there is grace , there is peace . you know grace and peace go together in the gospel . but the perfect and upright man being in the covenant of grace , he is therefore in the covenant of peace ; he is reconciled to god in the blood of christ , which is the only effectual sufficient peace-offering of all them that are true and living members of his body the church ; eph. 2. 14 , 15 , 16 , 18. now this peace being made for us , it is necessary we should plead it , that we should depend wholly upon it , that we should look on this , as our only way to god , the only means of pardon and mercy , of grace and glory . it is necessary withal , that we should observe those terms that our peace-maker hath made for us . that is , not only to believe in him , but to believe him ; to keep his commandements , to repent and be converted , that our sins may be blotted out , when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the lord. and he that doth thus , is sure also of another peace , in the heavenly ierusalem , which is the eternal vision of peace . it is that rest which was typified in the earthly canaan , and which is the substance of all those promises of entring into gods rest. that perfect peace of the perfect man , who is able to express it , but he that hath already attained it ? if the peace of god in this world passes all understanding , how much more doth that peace of god in heaven pass all our expression ? we cannot say what it is , but we can say what it is not . and therefore do commonly express it by negatives ; by abstracting from all the cares , and sorrows , and fears , and troubles , and miseries of this life . we say first , there is no sin in heaven ; and then to be sure there is no evil whatsoever there is no sorrow nor affliction , there is no fear nor danger , there is no strife nor division , there is no enmity nor enemy . there is only god ; and whatsoever is like him in goodness and charity ; in joy , and peace ; in holiness , and all manner of perfection . which if any one desires to know more distinctly , let him first practise these things which he knows upon earth ; and let him have patience , and persevere in well-doing ; and when god sees his time , he shall depart , in that spiritual peace which i before described , into that eternal peace which is here promised , in these words , the end of that man is peace . i have done with my text , beyond which i cannot pretend to revelation . and therefore , in what followeth ( as in all such cases ) i desire not to impose upon your faith ; but according to the measures of discretion and charity , to say my thoughts upon long and intimate knowledge of the person who hath been the sad occasion of our meeting this day . i cannot but say , that i have thought of him all this while , as being , according to the language of my text , to my thinking , a truly perfect and an upright man. he was eminently such ; for he was perfect in that calling which of all other is most apt to shew mens imperfections . it was a saying of bias , that magistracy shews what a man is . i think next to magistracy , it ought to be said of this profession , because of the great opportunities th●t it gives men to be dishonest , if they please . however i may be understood , i am sure i mean this no otherwise but to the honour of the profession . the law is the glory and support of any nation ; a good practitioner is an ornament to the law ; and such he was , i am sure , if i knew any . among the men of his rank , few more throughly understood it . none more punctually observed it . none more heartily loved the known laws of the nation . and yet he loved not to set men at law. he did not need it , much less did he affect it . it was his way to compose suits , rather then to make them ; especially if he saw they were unjust or unnecessary : and i verily believe , in this kind he hath prevented more suits than many an honest man was ever retain'd in . as he was not greedy to undertake , so he was most diligent to give a good dispatch . he used his client , as if he had been his guardian , contriving onely how to leave him as rich in purse , and as much at peace , as it was possible . and yet this i have known of him , that he was not more frugal of his clients cost , then he was liberal of his own . all that god blest him with , was like a stock put in his hands for good uses ; out of which he both gave and lent freely while he lived , and left the rest to be distributed by his will. of which , some i suppose will redound to the good of this place . what i have said of him in respect of his calling , was only because in that he was most known ; if i should speak of him in other respects , as a vertuous man , as a just dealer , as a faithful friend , as a loyal subject , as an humble devout christian , i am sure there are those present that could testifie all that i have said . and after all this , why may not i say my text over his corps ? why may not i call him by these good names in it ? why may not i say , his end is peace ? only because i have not this from god. 't is known to god alone , who is perfect , and who is vpright , and whose soul is in peace . in the most known sence of the words , i am sure he was a perfect and upright man ; if one may judge by twenty years trial : for so long i have known him , and in all that time i never knew him blemisht ; i never heard from him an obscene or indecent word ; i never saw by him an unjust or uncharitable action . if any have known worse then i have observed of him ; i desire them to remember , there is no perfection without some imperfection in this world. and i am sure , he that knows more then i know , or can imagine , knows much less by him then all know of the ●ommon rate of christians . if such a one , as he was , should miscarry and perish ; god help us , in this age how few are they that shall be saved ? and if the righteous scarcely be saved , where shall the sinner and the vngodly appear ? the lord give us grace to avoid all evil examples ; and to give example , or to follow it , in all things that are good : that coming to that perfection which god hath required in this life , we may attain to that peace which he hath promised in the life to come . finis . the pretences of the french invasion examined for the information of the people of england lloyd, william, 1627-1717. 1692 approx. 33 kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from 10 1-bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : 2004-11 (eebo-tcp phase 1). a48827 wing l2690 estc r20528 12402827 ocm 12402827 61319 this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons 0 1.0 universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase 1, no. a48827) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set 61319) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, 1641-1700 ; 767:19) the pretences of the french invasion examined for the information of the people of england lloyd, william, 1627-1717. defoe, daniel, 1661?-1731. [3], 16 p. printed for r. clavel ..., london : 1692. advertisement: prelim. p. [3]. usually attributed to w. lloyd but perhaps written by daniel defoe. cf. bm. reproduction of original in huntington library. created by converting tcp files to tei p5 using tcp2tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between 1473 and 1700 available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the 25,363 texts created during phase 1 of the project have been released into the public domain as of 1 january 2015. anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. 5% (or 5 pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of 100 instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level 4 of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p5, characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng oaths. 2003-11 tcp assigned for keying and markup 2003-12 spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images 2004-08 andrew kuster sampled and proofread 2004-08 andrew kuster text and markup reviewed and edited 2004-10 pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion may 25th 1692. let this be printed , nottingham . the pretences of the french invasion examined . for the information of the people of england . london , printed for r. clavel at the peacock in st. paul's church-yard , 1692. a catalogue of some books lately printed and reprinted for robert clavel , at the peacock in s. paul's church-yard . the state of the protestants of ireland under the late king james's government , in which their carriage towards him is justified , and the absolute necessity of their endeavouring to be freed from his government , and of submitting to their present majesties is demonstrated . writ by bishop king. licensed by the right honourable the earl of nottingham . the third edition , with additions . the frauds of the romish monks and priests set forth in eight letters , lately written by a gentleman in his journey into italy . the third edition , very fairly printed . observations on a journey to naples , wherein the frauds of romish monks and priests are farther discover'd : by the author of the former book . forms of private devotions for every day in the week by a method agreeable to the liturgy ; with occasional prayers , and an office for the holy communion , and for the time of sickness . l. annaei flori rerum romanarum epitome , interpretatione , & notis illustravit anna tanaquilli fabri filia , jessu christianismi regis in usum serenissime delphini . in a large 8vo . curiously printed . levsden's greek testament . the fifth edition . a defence of pluralities , or holding two benefices with cure of souls , as it is now practised in the church of england . the pretences of the french invasion examined : for the information of the people of england . that the sword hath thus long been kept from destroying among us , is a blessing which we cannot sufficiently understand , unless we consider the woful desolation it hath made in all neighbouring nations : nor are they at all sensible how much they owe to god , and their majesties for keeping us in peace , who give the least encouragement to this intended descent , which must turn our land into an aceldama , and will make such woful havock of our lives and fortunes , while one party fights for safety and the other for revenge , that no age can parallel the horrid consequences of such a civil war as this will prove . and if papists only ( blinded by zeal for their religion , and blown up with hopes of absolute empire ) encouraged this bloody design , it would be no wonder , and could have no success , considering the general aversion of the people to them , and the fresh instances of their insolence and cruelty . but alas ! it appears that many who call themselves protestants , are engaged in this fatal conspiracy against their religion and their native-country ; which is so prodigious and amazing , that a man would wonder who hath bewitched these foolish galatians to push on their own and the churches ruin : and every one must be inquisitive into the specious pretences by which these men are induced to become their own executioners . now the pretended motives are these : 1. repairing the injury done to the late king. 2. delivering us from the oppressions we suffer under the present king. 3. setling the government upon its old basis. 4. securing the protestant religion for all future ages . now it becomes every true english protestant to examine these pretences very well , before he venture on a thing of so evil appearance and dangerous consequence , as is the joyning with these invaders . first , it is pretended , the late king was unjustly deprived of his birth-right by his subjects , who by nature and oaths were bound to defend him in the possession of it : and now that he comes to demand his own , all that ever were his subjects must either assist , or at least not oppose him . but let it be considered , that all the late kings sufferings were owing to , and caused by the counsels of his popish-priests , and the bigots of that persuasion : protestants were not the aggressors , he might have kept his possession to this day undisturbed , if he had not made such open and bold attempts upon our laws , our religion and properties ; so that he was the first and only cause of his own sufferings ; and why should millions be involved in blood and ruin , who are perfectly innocent of doing this injury ? no free nation did ever bear more or greater injuries , or endure such violences so long , or so patiently as we did : and when some stop was to be put to the final ruin of our liberties and religion , it was done at first by petitions and complaints ; and when they were despised , none but defensive arms were taken up by some few , and by a foreign prince , only to cover their heads while the grievances were fairly redressed ; not to take away his rights , but to secure our own : nor did the prince of orange , or these gentlemen , devest or deprive him of his throne , but owned his right by offering a treaty , during the continuance of which he disbanded his army , dissolved his government , and as much as in him lay attempted to desert the throne , and seek aids from an enemies country ; which might secure him against redressing any grievances , and enable him to be revenged upon the injured complainers : we did not make the throne vacant , but the late archbishop and other peers at guildhall , believed he had left it void , or else they would not without his consent , have seized on the administration of the government , secured his chancellor , taken possession of the tower , and offered the exercise of the supream-power to the prince of orange . he left us in anarchy , and we provided for our selves in the best manner such a juncture would allow : i will not enquire now , whether these subjects who are so zealous for his return , were not bound to do more than they did to keep him in his throne while he had it ; their conscience then permitted them to look on and let him sink , while his security had been far more easily compassed : but they who have now these unseasonable pangs of their old loyalty , must consider , that a man may leave his right when he pleaseth , but may not take it again at his pleasure , especially not by force , and this most especially as to soveraign power : some body must govern , when he would not ; the next undoubted heir in an hereditary monarchy must ; and whoever doth govern in chief in this nation must be king , by our constitution , and must have power sufficient to protect himself and the nation , against all their enemies , and that cannot be without swearing new allegiance . now when a king and queen are declared , submitted to , and owned by oaths , and all other methods required in such case : the king is not at liberty to give up his own power , and the protection of us , nor are the people free to joyn with him that deserted them , or to venture their necks or their countries ruin , to restore him : i dare say that the french king will not grant , that the citizens of those cities who were subjects to spain or the emperour , and bound by oath to those princes ( but have now submitted to him , and sworn new allegiance ) are obliged to venture their lives and fortunes , by vertue of their old oaths to restore those cities to their former masters ; doubtless he would solve their scruples with a halter if he found they attempted it . besides the injuries ( as they are called ) done to the late king by his own acts , if they were capable of reparation , must not be repaired with the injuring , yea ruining many thousand innocent persons , who must unavoidably lose their lives , and be undone in their estates by his returning by force : the present king and his army , are bound by oaths , duty and interest , to oppose him , so are all now protected by him , and who have sworn allegiance to him ; and 't is certain all that are not perjur'd hypocrites will do so : and then what englishmans bowels must not bleed , to consider what murthers , burning , plundering and destruction he brings upon his native-country , who encourages the aggressors ? if he have any kindness for us whom he calls his subjects , he would rather sit quietly under his single injuries , than wish , or however attempt to be restored by blood , and an universal ruin : and if he have no pity for us , why should we be so concerned for him as to sacrifice our lives and fortunes to his revenge ? he went away while a treaty was on foot , and nothing but a treaty can restore him fairly , which he never yet offered : we did not force him to go away in disguise , and if he will force himself upon us again by french dragoons , and irish cut-throats , we may and must oppose him ; for our allegiance is now transferred to another . finally , there is no injury to any but himself , and those who run into voluntary exile with him , by his being out of the possession ; the monarchy , the law , the church and property are all in better estate than in his time , and all these with innumerable private persons must be irreparably injured by his return in an hostile manner . so that there can be no reason to redress the sufferings he ows to his own faults , by so many publick and private injuries : if it be pleaded that he who was born to a kingdom really wants subsistance , i reply , that if he would seek the peace of christendom , and of his late subjects , he might by a fair treaty set on foot , not only restore the exiles , but have a sufficient and honourable maintenance from this government ; but while the war he makes upon it , puts us to so great expence , he cannot expect it , nor imagin we should give him a supply to enable him to ruin us . the second pretence why we should assist towards his restauration , is to deliver our selves from the oppression we suffer under the present king : and to set off this with a better gloss , the late reign is magnified by the jesuits and their tools , and this blackned : freedom from taxes then is made a rare instance of his gentleness , and the present impositions heightned with all the rhetorick imaginable , to represent this king as an oppressor . the flourishing of trade then is extolled , the decay of it now odiously insinuated , and great hopes are given of golden days , upon the return of james the just ; he is to make us all happy . now to answer this , there is no need to make a satyr on that reign , or a panegyrick on this ; that is so well remembred , and this so fully known , that all unprejudiced people see on which side the truth lies . but 't is great pity they who have the wit to invent or urge this plea , have not a memory to remind them , that none complained more of the danger of law and religion , of our lives and fortunes in that reign , than many who have this high opinion of it now ; the cruel severities in the west , the high commission , turning out of office all good protestants , attempting to reverse all the penal laws , putting unqualified men into all places of trust , profit and power , excluding the fellows of magdalen , and putting in papists , with the imprisonment and trial of the bishops were thought oppressions then ; but now all these are buried in oblivion , and those taxes which the late king and his ally of france with their abettors alone make necessary to this frugal prince , these are our only grievance , and this kings unpardonable crime . the late king had one tax , and might , yea , would have had more for the glorious design of enslaving his subjects , if he could have got a parliament to his purpose , which he vigorously endeavoured ; and it was because he was sure he must satisfie his people in their just complaints , when ever he asked a supply , that he durst not ask it of a freely chosen parliament ; yet then we were in peace with all nations , and now he hath intangled us in a war with the worst enemy in europe . assessments then were not needed but to hasten our ruin ; now they are absolutely necessary to our safe●y , and made so by him and his complaining friends . yet still what grievances are these taxes , in comparison of what is laid on the french slaves , into whose condition we were intended to be brought ? there is a vast difference between losing our property for ever , and paying some part of our profits to secure the rest , and our inheritances to our posterity as well as our selves . besides , should we not leap out of the frying-pan into the fire , if to avoid tolerable payments , we should rashly bring a fatal war to our doors , that must last till more than one half of the nation be destroyed , and the rest utterly and almost irrecoverably impoverished ? this i am sure is voluntarily to change our whips for scorpions . we have paid as much formerly for assisting france to ruine europe , and maintain vice at home , as now serves to deliver europe , and secure our native country and religion from utter destruction : nor are the sums considerable , ( reckoning the abatement of chimney-mony , ) which we have paid to this government ; no country in europe hath paid so little in proportion to our wealth , these last three years of war : and if the late king return , england must pay all the sums borrowed of france to maintain him abroad , to keep ireland , and to discharge the forces that come to thrust him on us , and must stay to compleat the happy design of setting up popery and slavery , the natural consequences of his restauration ; and 't is well if arrears of chimney-mony , and other publick monies be not called for to carry on so glorious a work : so that if england rebel against the present king to avoid the burthens now upon them , they expose themselves to ten times greater taxes for many years , and it can end in nothing but the utter impoverishing of the whole nation , especially the protestant part of it , who by their poverty will become a more easie prey . as for trade , the decay of it began in the late king's time , and it is the war which he and france have engaged us in , that still keeps it at a low ebb ; so that for the late king's friends to expose the present government for this , is like a conjurers complaining of the storms he raises . that ingenious history of bishop king 's of the estate of the protestants in ireland under king james , makes it out , that the late king feared and hated the increase of trade , which made him use all means to hinder it ; and all the world fees , that no absolute monarch ( as he affects to be , ) likes that his subjects should grow rich by trade . but our present king so soon as he can have peace , will make it his first care to promote trade here , as he did in the country he came from ; and even in the difficult times he had , trade hath been a great part of his and his parliaments care. finally , if men can remember the times that are so lately past , when law and right was only the king's pleasure , dictated by mercenary judges , when no party but the papists flourished , when a general consternation had stopt all business , they cannot hope to be happy by his return , who caused all these miseries : and they must expect now he hath more perfectly learned the french methods ( of making a king the greatest of monarchs , by making his subjects the vilest of slaves , ) that he will practise it with greater industry and application than ever , to put it eternally out of his subjects power , to protect themselves again : for oppressing his people , which was but expedient before , will now be thought absolutely necessary . so that nothing can be more improbable , not to say impossible , than for england to be happy under him , that attempted to make her miserable without any provocation , and must return with the same principles and designs , the same counsellors and interests he had before , and with all the addition that revenge , hatred and fear can make to an angry and implacable mind : but it may be said , his dear-bought experience of the ill success of these methods , will make him rule more moderately , if he be restored : to which i reply , coelum , non animum mutat . the fore-cited book of bishop king's demonstrates , that after he had lost england and scotland , and a great part of ireland , upon his return thither from france , he was more arbitrary and hard to his protestant obedient subjects , than ever he had been before , even though it was against his visible interest , and tended to disgust all the protestants who would have served him there . his declaring himself papist at first here , and all his actions since shew that he prefers his will , and an obstinate pursuing his own methods , far above his true interest ; whence it follows , that we vainly expect from one of his temper , that either his past experience , or his future interest should teach him moderation , any longer than till he hath power to oppress us : and if he should by a thousand promises or oaths engage to rule by law , his frequent breach of both hath given us no reason to trust him ; and the religion he professes can so easily dispence with both , that neither of them give us any security from that sort of obligations . the interests of popery and france require he should be absolute , and his nature spurs him on to it , and nothing but fear can for a moment restrain him from being so . what a shadow of a dream then must this be of protestant subjects , being happy under a bigotted popish prince of such a temper ? thirdly , whereas 't is said we have changed our old hereditary monarchy into one meerly elective , and by degrees shall bring it to a common-wealth ; nor can any thing prevent this , ( which will be of fatal consequence to the church , ) but our restoring the late king : i answer , the position is false , and the consequence a meer sham ; the government of england always was , and ever must be monarchical ; that twelve years when it was endeavoured to make it otherwise , convinced all men , that all projects to the contrary must come to nothing . as for this revolution , 't is not likely a parliament which made an entail of the crown in a lineal succession , should be for setting up a common-wealth , or altering the hereditary monarchy . if it be alledged there was a great breach as to the person of the reigning king , 't is replyed , he himself made it , and they did not make , but find the throne void . and there have been greater breaches since the conquest as to the true lineal succession , and laying aside , yea deposing the reigning king , and setting up his son , or a remoter person , which indeed was an injury to the kings so deposed ; but still the monarchy was called and continued to be hereditary . in our case the king deserted us , yea , left us without any government ; but we applied to his next certain heir , with whom at her request , and for our safety and hers , by general consent a title was given to her husband and our deliverer , but this only for life , though he be much nearer in blood to the right of succession , than either henry the fourth , or henry the seventh , successively made kings of england . and the saving the succession to the princess of denmark and her heirs , shews how far that parliament was from designing any such thing as a common-wealth . we see philip of spain , who had no title to be king of england but by his marriage with queen mary , was made king at her request and in her right ; but he had not merited so much as our king , and therefore his title was to cease at her death . as for the prince of wales , there are so clear indications of his birth being an imposture , and the design of forming that project is so known to be revenge on the princesses for adhering to their religion , and to get more time to force popery and slavery upon us ; yea his health and strength make it so unlikely he should proceed from such crazy parents , that till the parties concerned prove the affirmative by better witnesses and clearer evidence , and the people of england in parliament own him for the heir , we need not go about the unreasonable task of proving a negative : wherefore since the breach in the succession was the late king 's own act , and only concerns his person and a supposed unknown heir , we are not to answer for that ; and considering the hurry his unexpected desertion put all things in , and the absolute necessity of a speedy settlement , the friends of the old english monarchy have just cause to rejoyce it was made so near the old foundation , with a small and only temporary variation from it , which was also absolutely necessary in that juncture of affairs : and 't is evident that there are many of the best quality and interest who hate the notion of a common-wealth in england , and love monarchy as well as any of the late king's abettors , who freely consented , and firmly adhere to this establishment . if it be objected that king william was bred up in a common-wealth , and inclines to that form of government ; 't is answered , he doth and may like it in holland , but they must shew some instances that his zeal for a common-wealth is as hot and as blind , as king james's for popery , before they can prove him so desperate a foe to his own interest , as to uncrown himself , and make himself the people's vassal , when he is and may be their gracious lord. if it be urged , that it is a dangerous precedent for future kings , to allow the people a liberty to take away their princes right , and set up another , on pretence of misgovernment : the reply is , the late king was the occasion of this precedent , by first attempting to alter the whole frame of our laws , government and religion , and then deserting us . and if it be an ill precedent for the safety of princes , that the advantage was taken , it was however necessary to take it for the safety of the people , for whose good heaven made kings . sure i am , there are as dreadful consequences of arbitrary tyranny , as there are of rebellion , witness the misery and slavery of the poor french at this day ; and it seems as necessary there should be some precedents to deter princes from abusing their power , as well as to restrain the people from abusing their liberty : for both tyranny and rebellion are great sins , and of most mischievous consequence . wherefore this unexpected example may make our kings more just and more apt to rule by law , but it can never hurt the monarchy it self , or countenance a rebellion , while a king is in the throne that will stay to hear and redress his peoples grievances , which will never be denied by the present , or any other good king. the last pretence is the most surprising of all , that there is no way to preserve the church of england , no nor the protestant religion , but by restoring the late king , who its said in his declaration promises this as liberally as he did at his first accession to the throne . if mankind were not the oddest part of the creation , one would wonder how 't is possible for protestants to believe , that the wolves design good to the sheep : when the late king was here , he involved himself in infinite mischiefs , and did the most odious things in the world to destroy the protestant religion , and especially to ruin the church of england ; and hath he given any evidence of changing his temper , his principles , his zeal , or his methods ? he shewed in ireland a greater spite to protestants than ever ; he hath lived in france ever since , where he hath seen how much it tends to advance his dear absolute power to dragoon all men into the kings religion ; his only motives to draw in this frenchify'd pope to lend him mony to invade us , is by convincing him , he lost all by his zeal to restore popery , and by engaging he will use his power ( if he can regain it ) only to promote the catholick interest . his other ally the french-persecutor , cannot be endeared by any better interest , till the principal of the sums lent are repaid by poor england , than by assurance that he will make one kingdom in the world as miserable by absolute empire , and forcing one religion , as france now is ; that his barbarity , cruelty and treachery may not be the infamous single instance of such proceedings ; his promises to his allies , his zeal , his principles , and his nature , all engage him to destroy the protestant religion . he attempted it when he was not half so deeply obliged , and can we think he will not pursue it now ? 't is next to frenzy to think the pope and king of france furnish him with mony , ships , forces , &c. only to secure the protestant religion and church of england ; he must be tyed in more than ordinary bonds , to endeavour the ruin of both , or no such favours had been shewn by such a pope , and such a persecutor : it cannot be ease to roman catholicks he desires ; they are more at ease under king william , than under any protestant king ever since the reformation : it must therefore be the suppressing all other religions , and setting up that alone , must engage rome , france and lucifer in his restauration : as for his promises to us in his declaration , alas he hath already given greater and stronger to the pope and french king to the contrary ; and though his interest , and the hopes that some will be so mad to believe him , put him upon renewing these promises to england , yet his consessor can soon resolve him which promise is to be kept , whether that pious catholick promise to the holy father , and the hector of that cause , or that extorted one to hereticks : besides , we should remember the italian proverb , god forgive him who deceives me once , but god forgive me if one man deceives me twice . no prince in the world ever promised with more solemnity than the late king to protect the protestant religion , or the church of england ; yet nothing is more clear , than that he designed to gull us only , not to oblige himself by this protestation ; and the first thing he did was to break it as soon as he durst , and can we be so distracted to believe him again ? he declared in ireland , that the church of england stunk in his nose , and that he abhorred it . he cannot truly love either any person of that persuasion , or any other protestant ; he may flatter some of them to get into the saddle , but when they have mounted him he will ride over their heads ; his own friends of the protestant religion are very few , and his revenge on the far greater number who have opposed his designs , will out-weigh the kindness of a few inconsiderable hereticks who abetted his interest , and who will be told , that it was not sense of duty , but despair of obliging his enemies that forced them into his quarrel : they had sufficient experience after monmouth's rebellion ( suppressed only by the church of england men ) how little any acts of those he counts hereticks can oblige him ; his carriage in ireland to the loyal protestants , writ this in capital letters , and it must be supposed they have drunk deep of lethe who can forget all this : but i pray what is it the church of england wants , or any other protestant ? this king is as serious and sincere a protestant , and as true a lover of that interest , as king james is a professed enemy to it ; and why may not he be more likely to preserve the religion he professes , than the other to maintain that religion which he vilely deserted , and mortally hates ? the church-men say king william is too kind to dissenters ; but hath he given them any other or more liberty than king james did ? that king begun with toleration , and it was not for a new prince in a troublous state of things to alter any thing of that nature : besides , at the same time the dissenters do think the present king too kind to the established church , not considering that 't is the national religion which he found , and keeps in possession of all its rights , as his duty and oath oblige him , yet so as the dissenters have ease , and every thing but empire , which from a prudent king of england they can never expect , being not only a less part of the nation , but so divided among themselves , that nothing can please all parties of them ; and therefore freedom to worship in their several ways , is all the favour they can be capable of in the best times ; and so they are most unreasonable to hope for more now : besides , let it be considered , that our king is not only the head and protector of the protestants of england , but of all the reformed churches in europe : and the french king ( the main wheel in this designed restauration ) is so mortal an enemy to the whole reformation , that he desperately weakned himself , and banished 30000 families of useful subjects , only to root the whole profession out of his own dominions : and now can any rationally pretend , this present king will destroy the english church , or the french-persecutor , and his client the late king of england , uphold it ? my dear brethren and country-men , do not so infamously abuse your selves to believe so incredible a fiction , so manifest a cheat : alas , all these good words are only to lull you asleep , till you , at the peril of your necks , get him power enough to extirpate you and your religion also : i doubt not but for a while he would maintain the established church , and renew his indulgence , because he can get footing no other way ; but it is easie to foresee how short-liv'd all these sham-favours will be : they spring from fear , and desire of opportunity to be revenged ; and so soon as ever the fear ceases , and that opportunity comes , he will most certainly kick down the ladder by which he ascended , and pull off the mask , appearing what he is in his nature and principles , and not what his necessities have made him seem to be ; so that if this disguise be credited , the persons imposed on will and must pay for their credulity , with the woful price of helping to destroy the most pure and flourishing church in the world : in assisting to re-instate him , and fighting for him , they fight against their own religion , which the primitive christians for all their heroick loyalty would not do , and which no man ought to do , either for interest or revenge : for my part , i think true religion so far above all worldly concerns , and the preservation of it , so principal an advantage of government , that the prince who will certainly suppress that , must be more intolerable than he that would take away my liberty , estate , or my life ; and it must be a damnable sin in me to assist him in it , or put him into a capacity to do it : no oath or allegiance can bind me to this ; it may oblige me to suffer , but not to act for such a design : wherefore for shame , let his irish and english popish subjects alone carry on this impious design , who can only hope for advantage by his restauration , and who are only bound in conscience to help him : neuter we must stand at least , and that will suffice to shew how contemptible a party that is , which must be set up on the nations ruin , and how impossible it is for him to cut down the protestant religion in england , without borrowing a handle from the tree he would fell : take warning by what is past , and what must be the inevitable consequence of your deserting this king , or assisting the late prince , even the ruin of this most famous church of england , and the endangering the whole estate of protestantism through all europe : in vain will you complain of this consequence , when it is too late to remedy it ; your guilt , shame and sorrow will then only remain , for having had a hand in so deplorable a mischief : for my part i have delivered my own soul , and given you fair warning ; god of his infinite mercy open your eyes in time , and grant you a right judgment in this and in all things . finis . a sermon preached at st. martins in the fields, on november the fifth, 1678 by william lloyd ... lloyd, william, 1627-1717. 1679 approx. 39 kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from 19 1-bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : 2004-03 (eebo-tcp phase 1). a48848 wing l2709 estc r20333 12402642 ocm 12402642 61303 this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons 0 1.0 universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase 1, no. a48848) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set 61303) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, 1641-1700 ; 767:30) a sermon preached at st. martins in the fields, on november the fifth, 1678 by william lloyd ... lloyd, william, 1627-1717. [3], 34 p. printed by t.n. for henry brome ..., london : 1679. includes bibliographical references. reproduction of original in huntington library. created by converting tcp files to tei p5 using tcp2tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between 1473 and 1700 available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the 25,363 texts created during phase 1 of the project have been released into the public domain as of 1 january 2015. anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. 5% (or 5 pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of 100 instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level 4 of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p5, characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng bible. -n.t. -john xvi, 2 -sermons. sermons, english -17th century. 2003-11 tcp assigned for keying and markup 2003-11 aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images 2003-12 mona logarbo sampled and proofread 2003-12 mona logarbo text and markup reviewed and edited 2004-02 pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion imprimatur , guil. jane , r. p. d. hen. episc. lond. a sacris domest . febr. 27. 1678. a sermon preached at st. martins in the fields , on november the fifth , 1678. by william lloyd , d. d dean of bangor , and one of his maiesties chaplains in ordinary . london : printed by t. n. for henry-brome , at the gun in st. paul's church-yard . 1679. john 16. 2. they shall put you out of the synagegues : yea the time cometh , that whosoever killeth you , will think that he doth god service . the words are part of that discourse which our saviour made to his disciples the night before his passion . the words of a dying man use to leave the deepest impression : and that was the end for which christ intended this discourse : he knew there would be a more than ordinary need of it . that which gave such force to his words , was the very cause of this need ; that is , his death . for him to suffer death , whom they lookt upon as their messias ; him that was to restore the kingdom to israel ; for him to frustrate that great work by dying ; they were in pain to hear this : for him to suffer such a death ; they were offended at it , often offended , as often as he spoke of it . our saviour considered their weakness in this ; and mildly told them , it should not be so , but much otherwise . that which they were so apt to be offended with , when they heard it ; he made them hear it , that they might not be offended , when it came to pass . these things have i spoken to you , ( saith he ) to the end that ye should not be offended ; that you should not be scandalized , nor deterred from my service , by any thing that i am to suffer . nay more ; what you shall see done in me , will likewise be done in you. as i am rejected and put to death , so shall you be , and that for righteousness sake . they which now begin their work with me , shall deal likewise with you when i am gone . the time comes ; and thus it will be , till time be at an end : the time comes when they shall remove you from their assemblies ; they shall put you out of their synagogues ; excommunicate you for your christian profession . and having done so , they shall kill you ; and all this in zeal , thinking it not only lawful , but acceps to god. they shall do it as men that would 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , do god service , or worship ; so the original signifies ; as if in so doing , they should offer sacrifice to god. it is a wonderful thing : that men of knowledge , and conscience , and religion ; they who doubtless were a true , though then a corrupt church of god ; should think to please god with those sacrifices , which were scarce offered to the devil by any other but the most barbarous and brutish part of mankind . what ? to sacrifice to god with human blood , which in his law he had positively and directly forbidden ? to kill men upon his account , that has expresly said , thou shalt not kill ? to kill , not malefactors , but the most faithful servants of god , the apostles of our lord jesus christ ? to kill them to do god service , was surely a most preposterous way . but they that did it thought otherwise ; and they thought as they were taught ; they acted according to their principle : it was the principle of their religion , that false prophets are to be put to death . 't is most true , god had so ordained it in his law , as you read deut. 13. six first verses . but how should a false prophet be tried ? among the jews he should be tried by his doctrine . and how his doctrine ? by scripture . god sent them to the law , and to the testimony : and declared , that , if men that took upon them to prophecy , spake not according to this rule , they had no light in them ; then they were to be taken for false prophets . but these of whom our saviour speaks , the jews of his age , had another way of trial , which they held at least equal with the scripture . that was their oral tradition . our saviour told them of it : he blamed them smartly for preferring it before scripture . you make , ( saith he ) the scripture of no effect by your tradition . by this tradition , if they tried christ and his apostles , and judged them all to be false prophets that would not receive it , they must judge christ and his apostles to be false prophets ; and , as such , must kill them by their law. thus they did . they dealt so , first with christ himself , and then with his apostles . and they thought they did well in it . they did this upon the account of religion . it was indeed for their religion , such as it was ; not grounded on scripture , but on that false rule of oral tradition . in defence of their traditions , they killed the followers , and even the writers of scripture . tanto in religio potuit — such a mischievous pernicious inflorence hath misguided religion upon the souls and consciences of men. so that now in my text we have two things to consider . you see the theme of it is persecution against the followers of christ. you see , first , the cause of it is misgrounded religion . in these jews , it was grounded , not on scripture , but on tradition . secondly , you see the effect of it , in their carriage towards the followers of christ. the effect is twofold : first , to shut them out of the church by excommunication ; secondly , having so done , to put them to death . they shall kill you , saith my text. now killing again is twofold ; either publickly , by the magistrate ; or privately , by any particular person . 't is all one to him that suffereth , whether he die by the sword of justice , or whether he have his throat cut in a massacre , or by assassination . but as to the authors , 't is far different . the sword of justice may be abused , in many respects ; and is so sometimes in all nations . it may kill the innocent , through misinformation ; and the magistrate may be faultless in doing it . but for private mens killing , by assassination or by massacre , it is and ought to be odious in all nations . yet some will do it , and justifie it . my text says , some would not stick to do it , yea and justifie it , upon the account of religion . thirdly , the time when they will do this ; the time comes , says our saviour . comes , when ? now under the gospel . the jews did it at the entrance of the gospel . in after-times , that christians should do it , that profess to believe the gospel ; did our saviour ever think of this ? if he did , you may soon guess of what sort he meant . for i know but one sort of christians , that do it , and that justifie it , upon account of religion . i know not any principles for it , among christians , but theirs in the roman church . it seems as if christ looked upon them , when he said these words to his disciples . it appears he thought of them , if what he said to his disciples , were intended of any sort of christians . he declared elsewhere , ioh. 17. 20. that what he said , he intended not for them alone , but for them also who should believe on him through their word . i say therefore , if our saviour had any thought , of christians that should suffer from their brethren , as his disciples did from the jews ; i know not where to apply this , but only to them of the roman church . of them only among christians he had occasion to say this . they shall put you out of the synagogues , yea when they kill you they shall think that they do god service . so that i have a twofold consideration in these words . first , in relation to the jews ; and secondly , to the romish christians . first , in relation to the jews , christ said these words immediately to his disciples ; that the jews would excommunicate them , and kill them in pure zeal for their religion . to pursue this in the method that i propounded at first ; first , the cause of those evils which the jews did to the apostles , was meerly zeal for their traditionary religion . what their zeal was , you know , is often spoken in scripture . s t paul testifies of them , rom. 10. 2. they had a zeal , but not according to knowledge . they reckon'd it zeal towards god , acts 22. 3. they were zealous of their law , acts 21. 20. but by the law , they meant chiefly their customs . so 't is explained acts 6. 13 , 14. those jews that bore witness against stephen , their witness was , that he blasphemed against god , and against moses , vers. 11. how did it appear ? in the the thirteenth verse , he spoke against the holy place , and the law. what did they mean by the law ? even the customs which moses delivered them . no doubt their hebrew word was 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 their cabalistical rites , their traditionary customs , quos moses tradidit , which moses delivered by word of mouth . that this was their meaning it appears by st. paul's explication . speaking of himself , what he did when he was a jew , gal. 3. 14. saith he , i beyond measure persecuted the church of god , and wasted it . a jew persecute the church of god ? wherefore did he do it ? he declares what i have said . i was , saith he , exceedingly zealous for the traditions of my fathers . that stuck more with the jews , than the scripture , the written law of god. they insisted much less upon the law , than upon the traditions . yea they called their traditions , the law , as you have heard ; and contended for them , as being essential to religion . saith the apostle , i profited in the iews religion above many of my equals in my own nation , being more exceedingly zealous for the traditions of my fathers . so we have found out the cause of this carriage that follows . the jews cause was , the defence of their traditions . their carriage it self was , first , to excommunicate ; and secondly , to kill , those that convinced them out of the written word of god. since their religion was founded , not on scripture , but tradition , in those points that were in controversie between them and the disciples ; the disciples not owning , but condemning those traditions , they lookt upon them as men of another religion , that is , both as heretics , and schismatics . and as such , they put them out of their synagogues , they cast them out of the church , they cut them off by the sentence of excommunication . even while our saviour lived , they had agreed among themselves , that whosoever confessed him should be turned out of the synagogue , joh. 9. 22. according to this agreement , when one born blind , being cured by our saviour , confessed him ; and maintained it , that he that cured him , could be no other but a prophet sent from god : they were so moved at this confession , and so inraged at him that had received his sight , ( the more inraged , because the matter was so evident ) that , not knowing how at that time to revenge themselves otherwise , ( for the people took christ for a prophet , therefore they durst not meddle with him ; ) they fell upon the poor man , they took occasion against him to turn him out of the synagogue , iohn 9. 34. and the matter was so notorious , that some that did believe in christ , yet durst not confess him , iohn 12 4. they knew they ought ; but they durst not , for fear of being turned out of the synagogue . 't is known to them that are conversant in the writings of the jews , that whensoever they had any cut off by their censures , it was their way to expose them with contumelious names . they called them 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; that is , heretics , and schismatics . secondly , whom they cast out for a heretic , or a schismatic , they lookt upon him as not worthy to live . when st. paul discovered himself to be a christian ; they threw off their clothes , they threw dust into the air , they cried , away with such a fellow from the earth , for it is not fit that he should live , acts 22. 23. they would have stoned him , if they durst ; but that the roman governour was present , as you read there , vers. 34. by saying , that he ought not to live ; their meaning was , that it was a good deed to kill him ; which was the usual effect of their total and final excommunication . the effect of it was killing ; with those horrible circumstances , that , whereas he that was killed was judged an enemy of god , he that killed him was considered as having done god a great piece of service : which made this much different from any other kind of death . he that killed a man otherwise , knew he did murther . he that killed him for god's sake , lookt upon it as a sacrifice : so far from being an offence against god , that it rather made amends for all his other offences . and whereas he that ordinarily kills a man , seeks nothing more but to be rid of him as soon as he can ; and therefore makes haste to put him out of his pain ; those that put men to death for religion , think no death too severe . single death is not enough : it is too soon over . they will make such a one feel how he dies . common rage is but a blunt sword , in comparison of that which is whetted and edged with a zeal of mistaken religion . first , by the sword of justice : if the jews put one to death for religion , it must be done by the sanhedrim , who were their judges in ecclesiastical things . but the sanhedrims way of putting . men to death was by stoning ▪ which was a very unmerciful death . st. stephen felt it . he was thus put to death for religion . and they stoned stephen calling upon god. when herod , that had no such motive as religion , was yet pleased for popularity to put st. iames the apostle to death , he only killed him with the sword , acts 12. 2. if the jews had had the doing of it , it would have been done at another rate . else , possibly for haste , or for concealment , or the like , when they could not intend those more exquisite cruelties ; and so in those cases where the sanhedrim had no power ; there they were for destroying by assassination ; as you read , acts 23. 12. when st. paul was so protected by the magistrate , that they could not come at him in a legal judicial way ; then they resolved to assassinate him ▪ they bound themselves under a curse , that they would neither eat nor drink till they had killed paul. and they were more than forty of the jews that had made this conspiracy . those were of the cannitae , or zealots , ( as they called them ; ) men that took upon them the cause of god , to avenge him of his enemies ; whether it were to kill any single person , or a family , or a nation if they were able to compass it . they stuck at nothing that stood in the way of their bloody and barbarous sect , disguised under the mild and sacred name of religion . i shall not shew , nor will it be greatly material to tell you , what reaks they played among the jews , nor what havock they made of the christians of those times . i have shewn you enough of their way , and of their principle , which suits the immediate scope of my text. this , together with the rest that i have said , was that measure that the apostles of christ were to expect , and to receive from the jews , upon the account of religion ; that is , indeed , of tradition against scripture . but now i come to consider the time when this prophesie was to be fulfilled . i have shewn you , that , besides the completion in that age , it is as capable to be extended to any future age ; any age before the resurrection ; for even that lies within the reach of these words , venit hora , the hour comes , in my text. the hour cometh , saith our saviour , when they that are in their graves shall hear the voice of the son of man , and shall come forth , john 5. 28. the notation of that word then , it is plain , is large enough to extend even till the resurrection . and if our saviour spoke this , first , of the jews in the apostles times ; of whom should he intend that they will do this in future ages ? could he mean this of the unbelieving gentiles ? saint austin says , no ; in his book contra literas petiliani . for , saith he , they do not use excommunication ; nor , when they kill , do they think that they do god good service . what then ? could it be said of the jews in after-times ? much less : for they were in no condition to kill . they have been killed , in every age ; both by heathens , and by merciless christians . but for them to kill christians , it hath not been in their power at any time since the destruction of ierusalem . of whom then are we to understand this ? if not of gentiles , nor of jews , 't is surely meant of some kind of christians in future ages . so the same saint austin doth understand it in his book contra epistolam gaudentii . this , he says , is to be understood of heretical christians . they will be ready to kill the orthodox christians , whensoever they have them in their power . but how shall we know who are heretics ? we know who they are , that are given to kill , among christians , upon the account of religion . i dare appeal to themselves in the roman church ; whether any , but themselves , either teach , or practice this , among christians at this present day . first , i am sure , for the cause which these jews had , they also have it . they have the same zeal , that those jews had , for unwritten traditions . and as the jews called theirs by the name of the law , so the papists make bold to call theirs the vnwritten word of god : so they call it expresly in the fourth session of the council of trent . all that which they chiefly contend for , is wholly founded on their unwritten traditions . run through all those points that they have added to the true christian faith. what pretence , or what colour have they for the proof of them ? for many , they do not so much as pretend a word of scripture . for some they do : but , god knows , very wretchedly and absurdly . for every one of them , the true bottom is nothing else but unwritten tradition . is there any thing else for seven sacraments of christs institution ? for their picturing of god the father , and of the trinity ? for their worshipping images ? for their denying the cup to their laity ? for their doctrine of purgatory ? for their indulgences , and the like ? the learned writers among them do acknowledge , even while they maintain these traditions , while they endeavour to prove them , that there is no proof for these out of scripture . for all the rest of their doctrines , they may have some colour ; but they have no manner of proof for any of them , but what the jews had against christ himself ; and as christ convinced the jews , so our way to convince them is , by scripture . but what return have we for it ? first , excommunication , to be sure . let any among themselves argue any thing against their tradition ; let him offer to name scripture against it ; nay , let him own his right to read scripture ; 't is enough to bring him under the sentence of excommunication . as for us that do all this , we are cut off from their church at one stroke . we are excommunicated in a heap . we are anathematized in bulla coenae by his holiness , in passion week . 't is his charity to us , at those times , when he most solemnly betakes himself to remember the death of christ in that sacrament . and being so excommunicated , and accursed by him , as we are ; you must not wonder at the names which they are pleased to give us . they call us heretics , and schismatics , in their modest appellations : yea infidels , and atheists , whensoever they please . and whether they do not treat us like such , that comes next to be considered . do i say they treat us like such ? no , i know they do much worse . except at the first conquering of the indies , when the spaniards killed some millions , i say millions , of that poor miserable people ; except that time , they have dealt more favourably , always , with heathens than with us . they kill none , usually , where they are masters , but only heretics . and they killed not even those , as they do heretics in those countries which are wholly under the dominion of popery . as namely , in spain , and in italy , in those parts where they have the inquisition . whosoever , there , sides with scripture against their traditions , is no sooner discovered , but hurried away to prison ; where no friend is suffered to come at him , no relief to come near him , no hope of better in this world. all which , taken together , make it hell upon earth ; and the rather , for from thence there is no redemption . well he may scape by dying there : but if ever he comes forth , 't is to be burnt . if one dies there in the popes slaughter-house ; or if one scape coming thither , ( which is impossible , but by not being discovered ) if he be discovered after death , they will not allow him burial . or if he be buried first , then they dig up his body to be burnt . so that whether one dies in their hands , or no ; 't is all one , he must be burnt . there is only this difference : he that dies in their hands , his body is not buried , but burnt . he that was buried before he was discovered , he is digged up to be burnt as soon as he is discovered , though it be twenty or forty years after . i could give many undeniable instances of all that which i have said in this matter . few instances can be given to the contrary , in spain , or in italy , in those parts which are under the inquisition . if it is not so in any other country , yet it was so , even there , when it was under the full dominion of popery . as for instance ; in france , a little more than a hundred years since . in our kings dominions , about a hundred and twenty years since . in the low-countries , ( as grotius tells us in the first book of his annals ) a hundred thousand men and women had suffered thus , before ever sword was drawn against the spanish government . not to speak of merindole , and cabriers , and piedmont , and in austria , and bohemia , and other places , where this cruelty was exercised so lately , in countries not under the full power of popery . when all was theirs , before the reformation , it was no where otherwise . how was it possible it should be ? when since the time that it came to be a practice of their church , that all whom they accounted heretics should be burnt ; ( that is since about the year 1200 , for then it began ) it hath been established by their laws both ecclesiastical and civil ; it hath been approved by , and acted in , their general councils ; it has been taught by their doctors and writers ; it hath been enacted , and prosecuted , and executed , every thing by the pope : whose very throne is established , whose greatness has been built , the foundations of it laid , in the bodies , and the walls cemented ( as i may say ) with the blood of orthodox and innocent christians . where they have not power to do this , and the colour of law ; where the government hath been against them , or where it hath been weakly on their side ; there they have found other ways to do the same thing ; by private murther ; by public assassination ; by open rebellion ; by such barbarous ways as i should not mention , for fear of being accounted a slanderer , but that they are notoriously known to all the world. and in all these ways , there 's none like them , for cruelty , among christians . there were indeed assassines among the heathen saracens ; there are deruices among the turks , and saids among the moors ; single persons , or orders of men , that are bloody enough in other sects : but for a whole sect to be led by its principles , nay even obliged to shed blood , i know none like these traditionary christians . the jews in the apostles time , to them , were but children ; their zealots , not to be mentioned with the iesuites , the cannites of the popish religion . they have the same zeal , that those had , for their traditions ; the same diligence to make proselytes ; the same cruelty to shed blood. only what those acted upon the small stage of one country , these do throughout the whole world , wheresoever they dare , and have opportunity to do it : whether it is to be done , by private murther , or by open war ; whether by a foreign sword , or by the civil ; whether it be upon subjects , or upon princes . and in this last thing indeed , they out-do the turks , and the jews , and all other ; that they spare not their own princes , where they may hope to advantage their cause by it . for the foreign sword , they hold it not only lawful , but necessary , to be drawn upon the meer account of religion . there is no kingdom in our europaean world , but the pope hath given it away upon the account of religion ; no country but he has made an aceldama upon the account of religion . his giving kingdoms indeed , hath been , like the devil 's offering them to christ ; upon condition , that they to whom he gives them shall fall down and worship him . as the devil offered all , so the pope hath given many ; though they are none of his own ; though he had no more title to any one of them , than the devil himself has to all kingdoms . the empire he hath given away more than once ; france many a time over ; england many and many a time , to those that would conquer them . and for fear that prize should be too little , he hath given them heaven into the bargain . he hath commanded them to conquer those kingdoms ; and that , for the remission of their sins . thus he gave navarre to the spaniard ; who both conquered it , and holds it to this day , under no other original title but of the popes gift ; and that founded upon no other right the pope had to it , but what he hath to all kingdoms . he knows little of our story that knows not how he hath plaid with the kingdoms of england and ireland : sometimes exciting the foreign sword ; sometimes stirring up princes against their subjects ; sometimes arming the subjects against their prince ; sometimes commanding them , and sometimes hiring them , either to rebellion , or to assassination . and in this they exceed the turks , and all others ; who do bloody things otherwise , but not to their own princes ; at least , not upon the account of religion : but to kill kings meerly for religion , i know not one instance where it was ever done , but for popery . not to insist upon old stories . within this last hundred years , there have been two kings of france stabb'd by their own popish subjects , but for favouring the protestant religion ; henry the third in our queen elizabeth's , and henry the fourth in king iames's time . for those princes themselves , queen elizabeth's life was attempted many times . she was never out of danger after the first eleven years of her reign ; though all that time she had not put one to death of that religion . afterwards indeed she did put some of them to death , to secure her own life . and knowing it was chiefly sought by their priests , she forbad them to come into her kingdoms . and for coming in spite of her , she did sometimes put to death some few of them ; whom she had cause to judge faulty otherwise . but this rule she observ'd , she never put any one to death , that would declare under his hand , that the pope had no power to take away her life and her kingdoms . when king iames came in after her , he even studied to oblige them . he treated them with all possible indulgence . he could not presently take away the laws ; but he put none in execution against them . he never touched , either the person , or the purse , of any of those whom they call catholicks . he forgave all that was in arrrear from them to queen elizabeth . he refunded what money of theirs he found in the exchequer . he gave them leave to live at home , how they pleased , only peaceably : or to go abroad , and travel , where they pleased , without account : or to take imployment under what prince they pleased , without distinction . he honoured all alike with advancement and favour . he knighted many of them ; and even one a that was afterwards in this treason . this gunpowder-treason was encouraged , or at least hastned , by those means . i speak in the very words of that king : saith he , b the papists themselves grew to that height of pride in confidence of my mildness , that they did directly expect , and assuredly promise themselves , liberty of conscience , and equality with my other subjects in all other things . when they found that king iames was not for down-right toleration , then they were for his blood. nothing would satisfie them but his blood : and not only his , but the queens , and his childrens . c i speak the words of his majesties proclamation , and of the act of thanksgiving upon this day : the king , the queen , the prince , were all at one thunder-clap to be sent to heaven together . oh barbarous , and horrid , and execrable cruelty ! how could it enter into the hearts of men , but by the instigation of the devil , to do such horrid things as they had design'd ! to destroy their own prince , the anointed of the lord ; his gracious queen ; their hopeful children ; their whole parliament with them ; and god knows how many more that should come within the reach of that blow ! the innocent with the guilty ! yea , all innocent ; for there were none guilty of any thing but the protestant religion . and their religion was according to scripture ; only it was against the popish traditions , as the scripture it self is . the scripture is against those popish traditions . what then ? if others do what christ and his apostles did , mu●t they be such arrant jews to kill them for this ? yes , and that with the same colour of duty and religion . it was resolved , d to be lawful , to be laudable , to be meritorious ; or ( as my text says ) a good service , an acceptable sacrifice to god. i know how they that come afte do endeavour to excuse this ; and shall lay open their excuses more fully elsewhere . i shall only at this time desire you to think , what they can say for themselves ; and , much more , for the authors of this wickedness . what they first say , is , that the authors did not come of themselves , but were drawn into it . they were indeed led into this wickedness by their religion : they acted according to their consciences , as the jews did in crucifying christ. they were drawn in by none but their spiritual guides ; by their own high priest , and their rulers ; by the pope , and the governing clergy . for the minister of state whom they now charge with this ; there was no ground for such a charge , but his vigilance . there was not the least intimation of any other in those days . both they that died , and they that survived , accused none but themselves , left no shadow of guilt on any other . but what then ? were they rashly drawn into it ? nothing less . it was a deliberate plot. it was begun , and carried on with great consultation . it was some years in contriving , before it was to be put in execution . but it was managed only by a few desperate men , that were thrust upon it with some great provocations . that is a second excuse . but for the provocation , take it in the king 's own words : e there was no foreign grudge , nor no inward whisper , nor discontent , that was any way appearing before this plot. for their condition , the chief actors in it were men of great estates , and spent many thousands of pounds in it , and were able to have spent many more . for the number , i believe the design it self was known to few : but that there was a design , was known to many more . king iames himself tells us so : f a great number of my popish subjects , of all ranks and sorts , both men and women , as well within as without the country , had a confused notion , and obscure knowledge , that some great thing was to be done in that parliament for the weal of the church . though , for secresies sake , they were not to be acquainted with the particulars . but perhaps those many were of the more ignorant sort , that were drawn into it for want of knowledge . nay , they knew as much as they generally care to know . they understood the mind of their governours concerning this matter . their spiritual governours were the chief men in it themselves : g garnet , the very chief man , was the provincial of the jesuits ; and the rest of his order were the chief instigators : who not only consulted , and contrived , but formed prayers for this purpose ; and used them in their several congregations for the good success of this business . these are again the words of king iames in his book g . but it will be said , the catholicks ever since have disowned it . i think , and doubt not , many of them do from their hearts . but i assure you , 't is disown'd by not many of the governing party . some of the traytors themselves confest their guilt at their death ; h three of them , and no more : the rest justified themselves , and stood in it to the last . i some of them refused to ask any pardon for it . one of the jesuits k said , it would have been commendable if it had been done . a lay-gentleman l said , ( even at his suffering ) he hoped their sons would grow up to revenge their cause . one of them , m being advised to repent of that sin , answered chearfully , he was satisfied it was far from being a sin : nay , that he trusted , the merit of that vndertaking would amply suffice for the satisfaction of his sins . thus they thought . what others did , it appeared after their deaths . some of their leaders are yet esteemed no less than martyrs in their church . and those principles by which they went are yet the very catholic doctrines . i know , or believe at least , they are detested by some members of that church : but they are as boldly , and as strenuously , asserted , by the head of that church , and by all the principal members . they do really that , which christ foretold some would do in future times , upon the account of religion : they will ( saith he ) put you out , &c. the more evident this is in them , the stronger motive it should be to us , both to zeal for our religion at all times , and now especially to thankfulness to god for this deliverance . for our religion , we know it is from the god of truth ; and theirs , ( as far as it differs from ours ) is from the father of lyes . and they take his way to maintain it , if fraud and violence are of the devil ; which they are , as sure as truth and goodness are of god. blessed be god for our religion ; for giving it , for keeping it from all danger , and especially from this . he deserveth no other mercy , that is not thankful for this . lord ! we deserve none at all . we deserve nothing but judgment . we are below even the least of thy mercies . it was for thy mercy sake , for thy own sake , that thou didst this . oh , never let it be forgotten in our days ! never let it be remembred , or thought of , but with thanksgiving to our god! and as the highest motive upon earth to those ways that are pleasing in his sight ; to a zeal for his truth , to love and unity among our selves , to true holiness in all our conversations ! and having this experience of god's care for his church in these kingdoms ; let us learn , by this , to trust him with it on all other occasions . we have a great occasion at present , and god knows what we are like to have more . let us trust in him , that as he has done , so he will still deliver us . but withal , let us keep his way ; and not follow our adversaries in theirs . it is properly their way to kill men for religion : god forbid we should follow them in it ! but for those other things in which they give us example ; for zeal , and activity , and undefatigable diligence ; as they are theirs in an ill cause , so in a good they may and ought to be ours . and in these , if we cannot out-do them , yet for shame let us not be out-done . let us not ( as perhaps we are too apt to do ) so much relie on our cause , as to think that we need not defend it . lastly , let us follow our endeavours with our prayers to almighty god ; that being delivered from the hands of all our enemies , we may serve him without fear : that having escaped the greatest cruelty on this side hell , we may at last escape that too ; and that living and dying in the communion of his church , we may be partakers of his kingdom in life everlasting . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a48848-e210 vers. 1. matth. 15. 16. a sir everard digby . b king iames's works , pag. 253. c king iames's works , pag 224. d thu. hist. tom. 4. p. 1206. e. king iames's works , pag. 503. e king iames's works , p. 225. f king iames's works , pag. 291. g king iames's works , p. 273. g ibid. p. 291. h winter , rockwood , and digby . i king iames's works , pag 291. k hall. l r. winter . m grant. a sermon preached before the king at white-hall, march 6, 1673/4 by william lloyd ... lloyd, william, 1627-1717. 1674 approx. 42 kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from 19 1-bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; 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(eebo-tcp ; phase 1, no. a48847) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set 61306) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, 1641-1700 ; 767:29) a sermon preached before the king at white-hall, march 6, 1673/4 by william lloyd ... lloyd, william, 1627-1717. [2], 33, [1] p. printed by andrew clark for henry brome ..., london : 1674. advertisement: p. [1] at end. reproduction of original in huntington library. created by converting tcp files to tei p5 using tcp2tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between 1473 and 1700 available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the 25,363 texts created during phase 1 of the project have been released into the public domain as of 1 january 2015. anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. 5% (or 5 pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of 100 instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level 4 of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p5, characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng church of england -sermons. bible. -n.t. -romans viii, 13 -sermons. lenten sermons. sermons, english -17th century. 2003-11 tcp assigned for keying and markup 2003-12 apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images 2004-11 mona logarbo sampled and proofread 2004-11 mona logarbo text and markup reviewed and edited 2005-01 pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a sermon preached before the king at white-hall , march 6. 1673 / 4 ; . by william lloyd , d. d. dean of bangor , and one of his majesties chaplains in ordinary . published by his majesties command . london : printed by andrew clark , for henry brome at the gun at the west-end of st. paul's , mdclxxiv . a lent-sermon . rom . viii . ver. 13. if you walk after the flesh , ye shall die ; but if you through the spirit do mortifie the deeds of the body , you shall live . it was the apostles design in most part of this epistle , both for his converts at rome , to whom it was immediately written , and for all other christians that should come to read it in after times , to draw them off from a carnal and sensual course of life , to that which is most agreeable to our christian profession . in order to this , he lays the foundation of his discourse in a discovery of a two-fold principle in man , that strongly enclines him the one way or the other : he shews the certain tendency of both these ways ; the one exposing us to the just wrath and indignation of god , which must end first or last in our ruine and destruction ; the other pleasing to god , and beneficial to our selves , full of inward peace and comfort in this life , sure of endless joy and happiness in the future . these two opposite principles in my text , so much spoken of in the beginning of this chapter , are the same which our saviour formerly mentioned in that discourse , st. john ● . 6. where he shews what they are , and whence they proceed . there is a principle of flesh ( as he calls it ) in every man that is born into this world ; it descends to us from the parents of our flesh , in that taint of our nature which we call original sin ; and this addicts us to all carnal and sensual things , but more strongly to those which are evil and forbidden . there is also another principle in every christian , the grace which we receive at our new birth in holy baptism : this our saviour calls spirit , for 't is infus'd into us by the operation of the spirit of god. this inclines ( and inables those that will be led by it ) to those things which are spiritual and eternal . the opposition between these two principles in us , and the consequence of each to them that are led by it , is thus described by the apostle in my text , if ye , &c. that is , in other words , if you lead your life according to the carnal principle , and be not chang'd and renew'd by the spirit , i. e. until you repent and be converted , you are spiritually dead in this life , and are to look for nothing but eternal death in the future . but if the spiritual principle have power in you , so as to subdue the irregular inclinations of the flesh , you shall live , i. e. being quicken'd and renew'd by the spirit , you shall have that spiritual life here which shall be consummated hereafter in life everlasting . in the last words which are my subject at this time , i shall consider these four particulars . 1. what are here call'd the deeds of the flesh . 2. how these are to be mortifi'd . 3. how we are to do it by the spirit . 4. how thus doing we shall live . all these parts i shall consider with a twofold respect . to them that have spiritual life , and to them that are destitute of it ; for those of both sorts have an interest in my text , and a capacity to receive benefit by it . you that have spiritual life in you , if you mortifie the deeds of the flesh , you shall continue the life of grace here , and shall attain to the life of glory hereafter . and even you that are spiritually dead , you are not so dead but that you also may live ; if you by the spirit mortifie the deeds of the flesh ; you shall thereby come to the life of grace here , and so you also shall attain the life of glory hereafter . to proceed in the method which i have propounded , i am first to consider what are the deeds of the flesh . and if the flesh be , as is said , our original concupiscence , then the deeds or actings of it must be actual sins . so that look how many sorts of such sins are in the world , so many sorts we may reckon of the deeds of the flesh : our apostle gives us a black catalogue of them , gal. 5. 19. where he says , the works of the flesh are manifest , and they are these , adultery , fornication , uncleanness , lasciviousness , idolatry , witchcraft , hatred , variance , emulations , wraths , strifes , seditions , heresies , envying , murders , drunkenness , revellings and such like ; which whoso does , shall not inherit the kingdom of god. and lest our apostle's calling them works in that text , and deeds in this , should make any one think , he means only outward actions , and no other ; i must desire you to remember , that god sees not as man sees , nor judges as man judges . man can see no more but the outward action , god looks chiefly , if not only at the heart ; man can judge of no sin till he sees it acted , with god it is acted as soon as it is conceiv'd . when lust hath conceiv'd , it brings forth sin ; and sin when it is finish'd , brings forth death , james 1. 15. 't is conceiv'd as soon as ever it is thought of with consent ; as we proceed to delight in the speculation , it ripens ; when we resolve to commit it , then 't is finish'd ; for then the heart has done as much as it can do . though we never proceed to action , 't is perfect sin . i cannot say it is more sin if we do bring it to action . only then 't is the more dangerous , and approaches more to habit ; for the purpose continues all the while we commit it , and is confirmed by the pleasure we have in committing it . therefore 't is the great mercy of god when he restrains us , when he hinders us , when he takes away the power and opportunity from us , that we cannot put an ill purpose in execution : though we are nevertheless guilty of the sin , having gone as far as we can go in it , when it is fully resolv'd and purpos'd in the heart . mat , 15. 19. says our saviour , out of the heart proceed evil thoughts , murders , adulteries , fornications , thefts , false witness , blasphemy . they could not proceed out of the heart , but that first they were in the heart . and many sins may be in the heart , that are never brought forth into action . all the sins that i have mentioned may lie within in the heart , and only those come abroad that see their occasion ; but whether outward or inward , they are the works of the flesh , they are the same sins whether purposed and committed , or whether never committed , but only purpos'd and determin'd in the heart . these we are to mortifie , says my text : to mortifie , that is , to kill them , to put them to death ; or , which is equivalent , yea much better , to keep them from ever coming to life . this mortifying of sin , is the proper work and business of repentance : now repentance ( ye know ) runs throughout the whole course of ones life : every day of our life has need of repentance , for no day is free from the pollution of sin . but through gods mercy in christ , sin shall not be imputed to them in whom it is mortified or subdued and kept under , in whom the power of it is conquered and kill'd , or in whom 't is kept from coming to life . i endeavour to use so many several terms , as may reach the several states of men , which i have to consider . the first state is of them that are not yet grown up to years of discretion , that cannot yet fully distinguish between good and evil ; they are to mortifie sin , ( i cannot properly call it repentance ) that have not yet soil'd the white robe of innocence which they put on through gods grace in the sacrament of baptism . the second state is of them who having broke their baptismal profession , and having fallen into sin , through ignorance and frailty , have not yet proceeded so far as to have defil'd themselves by any wilful or deliberate sin . the third state is of them who have thus transgressed , and yet not gone to that height of enormity , as to commit any sin against the light of nature , such as god has particularly threatned with excision ; and have not yet contracted any habitual custom of those sins into which they have fallen . the fourth state is of them who having done thus are therefore said to be spiritually dead the question is , what men in each of these states have to do in the work of repentance ? how in each of these states they are to mortifie the deeds of the flesh ? first of them that are not yet grown up to years of discretion , children that can scarce distinguish between good and evil ; the question is , what they have to do in this work ? sure there is much to be done by their parents and governours . 't is their duty to forwarn them of sin ; to make them know their danger of it , and by it ; to teach them , as they are able to learn , what solemn vows and professions were made for them in baptism . the first promise then made for them was , that they should forsake the devil and all his works , the pomps and vanities of this world , and all the sinful lusts of the flesh . children should be taught what these things are ; how hard it is to forsake them , through the naughtiness of our natural disposition ; and yet how necessary 't is to forsake them , and how possible through the grace and goodness of god. children should be taught in their daily prayers , to acknowledge what they find of their ignorance and frailty , to ask pardon for what has been amiss in their little time past , and to beg the assistance of gods grace for the future . whensoever they do fall into actual sin , as soon as ever it comes to the knowledge of their friends , 't is their duty to admonish them , and to make them sensible of it ; to make them ashamed of it , and sorry for it ; to bring them , if it be possible , to hate and detest it ; to see that they confess it to god , and ask his pardon for that sin and all other ; that they resolve by promise to forsake it , and beseech god for his grace to enable them to fulfil that good resolution . in the whole course of our life after infancy , being obnoxious to many and manifold sins ; some of ignorance , some of weakness , and some of wilfulness and presumption ; and none of these being to be forgiven without repentance ; we ought , as far as we know and are able , to suit our repentance to our sins . for sins of ignorance , and of daily incursion , i conceive a general repentance may suffice : for sins of wilfulness and presumption , there ought to be a particular repentance . first , for sins of weakness and daily incursion , i say , 't is necessary there should be a general repentance . every one that has the use of knowledge and reason , should make such a daily confession in his prayers , as david did in that psalm 19 , 12. cleanse me lord from my secret sins . this our church has taught us to do in our publick prayers ; and we should do it as oft as we repeat that confession , almighty and most merciful father , we have offended against thy holy laws , doing those things which we ought not to have done , and not doing those things which we ought to have done . in this and such like offices , we sum up together our sins of ignorance and daily incursion ; we cast our selves , with them , before the tribunal of god ; imploring that mercy , which according to the terms of the gospel , we are sure he will grant to them that confess in the general those sins which they know not in particular . in this sense i conceive those words may be understood , 1 john 1. 9. we , says the apostle of himself , and such as he was , cannot say that we have no sin : we have sins of ignorance , and of daily incursion ; but blessed be god , if we confess our sins , he is faithful and will forgive us , according to the terms of the gospel . as for those sins which need a particular repentance , of them , says the same apostle , he that abides in god , sinneth not , 1 john 3. 6. and ver . 9. he does not commit sin , he does not fall into wilful and deliberate sin . if he does , there is a breach , and he must speedily make it up by particular repentance for that particular sin . good god! how many such sins do many of us commit , and pass them by without particular notice , and therefore without particular repentance ? they do not remember themselves , and are as quiet as if god had forgotten them . because this happens too oft , and cannot be helpt when 't is past ; i must mind them that are sensible of it , how much they are oblig'd to special and solemn acts of repentance . this god will surely expect , and less will not be accepted at their hands ; that they should set apart some special times for their spiritual accompt , and especially when they would prepare to receive the lords supper . all christians are oblig'd to receive at easter , according to the ancient laws yet in force . when those laws were first made in the primitive church , care was taken there should be a time of preparation : and ( i suppose for this purpose ) it was wisely ordain'd , that there should be not only a whole lent of abstinence , but a week of fasting ; the passion week , in which men , as it were , with one common consent , not to interrupt and hinder one another , might set themselvs to examine the state of their conscience , to mortifie their lusts , and correct their evil habits , to purge out the old leaven before they come to the feast of that sacrament . what care the church has taken for this , we ought our selves to take for all our other preparations ; to set apartsufficient time for the cleansing of the conscience . to say how much is sufficient , i shall not undertake , for the measures are various according to mens several circumstances : of them that have much time , much will be requir'd ; and less will be sufficient for them that have less : but i beseech you let the thing be effectually done . call your self into your chamber or closet , and there , as the psalmist says , commune with your own heart and be still . examine your self wherein you have transgress'd , and wherein you have been most apt to transgress , especially in those things which are your foulest transgressions . search as far as you are able into the very particulars of them : where you have forgot the particulars , yet at least , to remember the kinds of them . the kinds of every ones sins are known to himself : the kinds wherein men may sin are infinite , and yet these may be reduc'd under certain heads ; and are so in some books to which you may have recourse , in this duty of self-examination . if you have not such a catalogue of heads ( which were well worth the having and considering at such a time ) you may do well to think deliberately with your selves what you know that god has commanded in scripture , and what you know that god has forbidden in scripture ; and examine your self how you have done those things which god has commanded , and avoided what god has forbidden . especially if you know any catalogue in scripture , either of commands and duties , or of prohibitions and sins ; you may do well to examine your self by that catalogue , and to consider what the state of your soul is as to every particular . for example , you know the ten commandments of the moral law ; you may take a particular account of your obedience to those commands . you know the three theological virtues , faith , hope , and charity ; examine the state of your soul as to these three graces and virtues . you may possibly have observ'd sundry catalogues of sins ; i quoted you one in gal. 5. 19. you find there how god threatens all them that are guilty of such sins , you may do well to ask your selves with the apostles , is it i ? and see what answer you can make upon each of those particulars . to do just as i advise in this matter , i know is not so absolutely necessary ; for the same thing may be effected sundry ways : but this way is the best that i am able to advise , and i am sure the thing might be profitably done : i question how faithful they are to themselves that leave it undone . the use of this advice is , as far as 't is possible , to find out the particulars ; at least to find out the kinds of your sins . that having found you may mortifie them ; bring them forth one by one in confession , and recount them to god in the bitterness of your soul ; and take up strong resolutions against them , beseeching god by his grace , to enable you to fulfil those resolutions . yet when all this is done , i cannot say you have mortified your sin , till you have truly forsaken it , and at least broke the habit of it . this is true mortification , when the sin is cast off and forsaken ; when the lust , the parent of it is so conquer'd and subdued , that though still it dwell in us ( we cannot help that ) yet it hath no more dominion over us . but what shall we say when the sin is not forsaken , when lust is in full dominion , when religion and the fear of god is so abandon'd and lost , that one does not stick at those sins which the gentiles , that have onely the light of nature , would have detested and abhorr'd ? or when one allows himself in the habitual practise of that which he knows to be sin , or might know , if he would but consider it ? in this case , the person being spiritually dead , ( which is the fourth and last state ) i am to show how such an one may yet mortifie the deeds of the flesh , ( that is ) may recover from this death , and so scape eternal death ; which is the next thing that falls under consideration . and surely this estate being extraordinary bad , is not to be remedied without extraordinary care. lust , where it has got an head , where it has the dominion , is like that unclean spirit , mat. xvii . 21. that was not to be cast out without prayer and fasting . without prayer there is nothing to be done in any spiritual business ; especially in this , there is need of most intent and most vehement prayer . and there is need of fasting too , that is , of much severity to be exercised upon our selves : and that not onely in abstinence from meats , which of it self , st. paul says , profits little , 1 tim. iv . 8. but we are chiefly to abstain from the satisfying of our lusts in those things which are more to us than meat and drink . this being as much the hardest , as most needful severity ; our saviour calls it , the plucking out of the right eye , the cutting off a limb , mat. v. 30. st. paul calls it , the circumcision of the heart , rom. ii . 19. and gal. v. 24. the crueifying of the flesh , with its affections and lusts. i know 't is in vain to proceed upon this subject , to show how a man spiritually dead , should mortifie fin ; how one dead in any kind , should do any act of life in that kind ; much more , to excite you with great cost and pains to endeavour it ; unless first i show that you are capable to do it : for no man that thinks what he does , will set about , much less be at great cost to do , that which he thinks impossible to be done . therefore , ere i go any farther , i shall endeavour to show , how he that is spiritually dead may mortifie sin , and what is to be done on his part towards the mortifying of it . i trust you understand what is most certainly true ; that as there is no man wholly free from lust , so there is no man entirely under the dominion of it . that devil is not so great in any man living , that he can quite put out the eyes , or stop the mouth of his conscience : nay , he cannot hinder it from observing , and speaking out , and interrupting him between whiles . no habit is so deeply radicated in us , so entirely possest of us , but that it may be broken off , it may be alter'd by degrees , and turn'd quite into the contrary , as we may order the matter . that ill habits may be alter'd we know , and by what causes ; as by diet and physick ; by education and converse ; by diligent exercise , whether for ones moral improvement , or whether out of any other design . we know men may be extremely changed , for we see by experience they are so . it were no hard thing to shew by examples , some that have been in their time lavish , riotous , spend-thrifts , and come after to be greedy , sordid , penurious wretches . some that were dissolute and loose , without appearance of any sense of religion , have in time come to be superstitious , schismatical , and factious . such as have been factious in their sect of religion , having afterward found that to be a cheat , and judging all religion to be so , have turn'd ranters , and run out into all manner of licentiousness . some that have much valu'd themselves by their cloaths , and taken a pride to out do others that way , becoming quakers have put off that pride , and put on spiritual pride in the stead . 't is lust governs them still , though it has shifted it self ; it hath alter'd its habit , it hath quitted its place , and put on other circumstances ; 't is no other than satan that has cast out satan . however this sufficiently shows how possible it is for a habit to be broken and left off , and turn'd into the contrary . being sure then it is possible , we are to see how this may be done to good purpose in the way of mortification . it may be done morally , as i intimated before : so heathens have done it , and so the spiritually dead may do it , morally , by attending to the dictates of natural reason . common reason will tell you what a weakness it is to give the reins to your lust , to let your beast carry you whither he pleases ; to run out of your estate , your credit , your health , in pursuit of an unsatisfying momentany pleasure : and will therefore tell you how unwise they are that give themselves to drunkenness , to riot , and uncleanness . common reason will tell you what a vain thing it is to pride your selves in that which is not yours , or in that which soon may be anothers , ( for all things here are subject to time and chance . ) common reason will tell you what a madness it is to run into a needless quarrel , and then , as the fashion is , to stake all you have upon the issue of it ; to put it in the power of every worthless man to make you go to cross and pile with him for your life . common reason will tell you what a vexatious , endless thing it is to set your heart upon uncertain riches ; to live poor , that you may die rich ; to wrong others , and be never the better for 't your self , but much the worse , when all accounts are cast up . these and many things more , common reason will tell you , if you attentively heed it . you may learn much from reason , and 't is well if you do that ; but let me tell you , reason will not do this business in my text. it will not convince you of all sins , it cannot cope with all lusts , it corrects but few habits , and not any sufficiently : for it does not purifie the fountain , it cleanses not the heart ; it does not place it upon god , the right object ; it does not season it with grace , the right principle ; without which all that you do otherwise is light and defective , 't will not hold weight in the scales of the sanctuary of god. this it is which the apostle supposes in this work , saying , if you through the spirit mortifie the deeds of the flesh : you must do it , but not you ; you of your selves , so you cannot ; but you through the spirit , so you may , and so you ought to do it . the spirit in this text is taken by interpreters for either the spirit of god , or the spirit of man ; both these , in their several ways and degrees , have to do in the work of mortification . first actively , onely the spirit of god : and that either outwardly , by means ; or inwardly , working on our spirit . outwardly god has given us means of mortification , both to them in whom it succeeds , and to them in whom it succeeds not : those means are both his word and his works . first , gods word is generally propounded in scripture , where whoso reads and lists to observe cannot but see how god forbids and dissuades from all manner of sin , how he invites and exhorts us to repentance and newness of life . he cannot but see how god seconds his commands with exceeding rich and precious promises : he cannot but see how his prohibitions are prest with threatnings of judgments both in this life and the future . of his works : we have an account of his wonders of old , in all the historical part of scripture ; of the mercies which he shewed to them that did repent , and of the judgments which he executed upon hardened and impenitent sinners . we cannot but see in our own daily experience the works of gods ordinary providence , both his judgments and his mercies in this life . we see daily enough to convince us , if we please to observe , that as the psalmist says , verily there is a reward for the righteous , verily there is a god that judgeth even here in the earth . nay , if we collect from experience , we need go no farther than our selves . we are forgetful and ungrateful , if we observe not in our selves that god has been merciful to us , that he has not taken us at advantage ; that he has spar'd us when he might have punish'd us , and punish'd us gently when he might have consumed us : we cannot but see how he has forborn us , and warn'd us ; how he has sometime come near and threatned us , and as it were walk'd off to see what we would do : we cannot but see what he has done to others before our eyes , how he has made quick work with them , and cut them off in his wrath ; whilst we have been the objects of his patience and long-suffering , treated with all the means , and invited with great opportunities , ( for what end ? ) to bring us to repentance . if that be his end , as we are certain it is , where is the fault all this while , that you have not yet mortify'd the deeds of the flesh , o ye that are dead in trespasses and sins ? what is it because you are dead ? so some may conceive ; we being dead there is nothing for us to do ; yes , there is much for you to do , much that you may do ; so much , that as you cannot but confess 't is your fault that you are spiritually dead , so it is ten thousand times more your fault if you continue so . for though you are so far dead that you cannot be rightly active , you are to be more than meerly passive in the work of mortification . i mean , you are not stocks and stones , you are not tied to a necessity of lying still . though you are so dead , that you cannot help your selves ; you can do that which being done , god will assuredly help you . god will help you if you earnestly apply your selves unto him ; if you use those means which he has prescribed ; if you bewail that which has so deaded and disabled you ; if you earnestly sue to him for his grace to enable you , and for his mercy to spare you , so long time that this work may yet be brought to perfection . prayer to god should have the first place , if it has any in this matter ; and that it has , st. peter teaches in his advice to simon magus , acts viii . 22 , 23. thou art ( says he ) in the gall of bitterness , and in the bond of iniquity ; yet pray unto god , if perhaps thy wickedness may be forgiven thee . doubtless a wicked mans prayer is abomination to the lord , while he resolves to continue such ; but we are as sure he can never be otherwise without daily and earnest prayer unto god. but then praying is not all , ye must also do what ye can . ye can choose whether you will go to the house of prayer at prayer-time ; or whether you will sit at home , or visit , or walk the fields : at home you can choose whether you will pray , or read a book that may profit you ; or whether you will do that which may hurt , or which cannot profit you . you can choose whether you will give your mind to what you read or hear ; or whether you will divide it between sleep and talk , and other matters . you can , if you please , lay up what you learn ; you can think of it again in due time , and so apply it , that it may make some impression : i do not say you can have faith when you please ; but st. paul says , faith comes by hearing the word of god ; and you may hear it when you please ; and gods blessing is ready to go along with his word , it is your own fault if you do not partake of that blessing . if you are sick , and a physician comes to you , and offers you that which he says , and you believe , will certainly cure you ; if you take his physick , and observe his rules , and so doing recover your health ; it is he that has cur'd you , you have not cur'd your self . and yet thus much you have done towards it , you have done all as he directed you , you have been willingly passive , which was more than he could compel you to be . now this is all that god requires in the work of our conversion ; he could compel us , but he will not ; for he expects we should be willingly passive : he would have us take his physick , and observe his rules . god expects we should apply our hearts to spiritual knowledge , with a full resolution to live accordingly . god expects we should abstain from ill diet , that is , from the satisfying of our lusts , which ( i have shown you ) upon a moral account we are able to abstain from , if we please . god expects we should be conversant in his word , and that we should observe him in his works . for his word , he expects you should read or hear it often , and diligently ; that what you read or hear , you should lay to heart , so as to make some impression ; that you should heed it with the same concernment , and with at least as much effect , as you would do if your lawyer should tell you of something which endanger'd your whole estate ; or if your physician should warn you of some disease , that , if not prevented , would shorten your life . of his works , chiefly of his judgments , god expects you should be a diligent observer . first , when you see others suffer for their sins , which perhaps are also yours ; you cannot but know that god has made them examples to you : and therefore ( whatsoever his end may be towards them ) you have much cause to fear , that unless you repent , god will also make you ( perhaps you next ) an example to others ? when any judgment of god is fallen upon your self , god expects you should consider whence it comes , and wherefore 't is ; to take away your sin : that you should mind this especially in sickness , which is the greatest temporal mercy , in order to a spiritual good , the greatest god can show to any hardened and yet not incorrigible sinner . if ye neglect all these methods and means of conversion , what remains but a sad and fearful account ? an account that comes slow , but will be most sure ; first for your sin , and then for your impenitence , and then for your neglect of the means of repentance . this last will make you quite inexcusable . when you are in hell , whither you are going , and must come , without repentance , it will be another hell to you to consider ; how possible it was for you , by repenting in this life , to have prevented that misery which now you are for ever to endure ; and to have obtain'd that bliss from which you are now separated for ever . whereas contrary wise , if you lay hold on this opportunity , if you make use of these means , that use for which they were intended of god ; you will soon find a sensible benefit , in certain effects which ▪ deserve more time then i have now to consider them . first , you will find the means of grace more effectual by degrees : you will find a lesson from hence make more impression upon your thoughts : you will find both a softning and a strengthning of your heart . i dare promise you from god an encrease of the means of grace ; and perhaps a longer life to profit by them ; why not ? for god willeth not the death of a sinner , but rather that he should be converted , and live . if longer life therefore be needful to compleat your conversion , god will give it : if not , he will the sooner perfect your conversion ; for he has declared in favour of such as you are , that he will not quench the smoaking flax , nor break the bruised reed , until he has brought forth iudgment to victory , till he has given you a full conquest of your sins . but how ? through his spirit : that is , the inward work of it ; which comes next to be considered . god works outwardly , as you have heard , by giving us the means of our conversion . god works inwardly by his grace , which gives efficacy to the means ; or more properly , he gives it to us ; to a sinner so humbled , and so contrite , as ye have heard , for his own promise , for his own mercy 's sake , god gives that grace which is the life and soul of conversion . and this being infus'd into our spirits by the spirit of god , may cause that doubt among interpreters , as ye have heard , ( though it comes all to one ) whether our mortifying of sin be by the spirit of god , or by our spirit enlightened and enabled by his spirit . sure enough the agent or efficient in our conversion is the spirit of god ; our spirit , which is willingly passive before and in our conversion , after this becomes active , it cooperates with the spirit of god. first in our conversion 't is the work of gods spirit to mortifie our lusts , to break the power of them in our hearts , to set our captive and enthralled affections at liberty . 't is the work of god to change our spirit or rational soul ; having thus broken the bonds of death wherein it was held , to quicken it , to give it spiritual life : so to create in us , as it were , a new heart , and a new spirit ; whence the soul that repents is said to be a new creature , made as adam was at first , after the image of god. both these works of gods spirit st. paul requires of us , though our part in them be onely such as you have heard , ephes. iv . 22 , &c. that we put off , concerning the former conversation , the old man , which is corrupt , according to the deceitful lusts ; and be renewed in the spirit of our minds ; and that we put on the new man , which after god is created in righteousness and holiness . our spirit being thus quickned and renewed , becomes active , and hath its work upon all the inferiour faculties , it bestirs it self to fill the room of those lusts which god has chas'd out of our hearts ; it changes the work of every part to an unspeakable advantage ; it never rests till it has the whole body to offer up as a living sacrifice , holy and acceptable to god. but its chief work is on the affections ; which , while they were servants to the flesh , commanded under it , and were the instruments of its tyranny over the whole man ; when god has set them at liberty , they are as able to fight on his side , and to make them as willing , that is the work of the spirit . between god and the world st. john shews you the opposition , 1 john ii . 15 , &c. all that is in the world , says the apostle , is the lust of the flesh , the lust of the eye , and the pride of life : as 't is the business of our lusts to engage our affections to the world ; so those lusts being mortified as you have heard , 't is the work of a renewed spirit to convert all those affections to god. what is the pride of life , but an affection to worldly honour and greatness ? the affection being mortify'd to that , the new creature exalts to true honour and greatness : no such honour , no such greatness as this , to be the child of god , and to bear the image of god. to which image sin is so contrary , that it is only reproachful , only worthy of our scorn and our disdain . the child of god aims at no other glory , but that of god , which we advance ; and that from god , which we are sure to receive , by well-doing . the lust of the flesh is the affection irregularly set on worldly and carnal mirth and pleasure . the affection being mortifi'd to that , is for mirth and pleasure still ; but only such as is worthy of a good man , and of a true child of god. if this affection ever hated melancholy before , 't is more freed from it than ever , when converted to god : 't is entertain'd with the continual feast of a good conscience , a feast that consists not of meat and drink , but of righteousness and peace and joy in the holy ghost : it has the love of god , which is infinitely above the love of women : it has within it self the matter of eternal thanksgivings , and some tastings of those joys of the blessed , whose work it is to praise god for evermore . the lust of the eyes is an affection set either on revenge , or on covetousness . 't is the business of revenge to see ones will upon his enemies : the affection being mortify'd to that , has its exercise still , though it has no enemies : for , as tertullian says , a christian is no mans enemy : but he hates and declares against the enemies of god ; that is , not against persons , but sins ; against atheism and profaness , and whatsoever it be that dishonours god , that affronts his name , that disgraces his worship , that defaces his image , truth and holiness , the best image of god amongst men. and what is covetousness but an affection irregularly set upon worldly goods , still craving and saving for an uncertain future ? the affection being mortify'd to that , the renewed spirit sets before it a certain future , a lasting future , that is and will be the same to eternity : the affection cannot be too intent upon that , no provision can be excessive for that , no care can be too great to preserve it , nor watchfulness against him that would rob us of it . there is but one that can rob us of it , that is , sin ; the affection cannot be too watchful against sin. there is but one provision will do us good , that is , good works ; the affection cannot be too intent upon good works . o wise and happy covetousness of that true riches which will neither be lost nor left behind , but will follow us , and be with us for ever ! this then is true mortification of the deeds of the flesh : when a sinner being convinc'd of the evil of his vvay , reflecting on his guilt , and apprehending his danger , seeing the jaws of destruction open before him ; applies himself humbly to the methods of god ; abstains from his sin , takes all that god prescribes , waits on god for the effect , in supplication and prayer . god is pleased to give him the conquest of his lusts , sets him free from the bonds of death , creates in him a new heart and a new spirit ; which being purged from its filth , finds a new current for its affections , sets them wholly on things spiritual and eternal . the whole man being thus transformed to the image of god , in goodness and holiness and truth ; he whose eternal delight is in these lineaments of himself , delights and dwells in that man whom he has thus consecrated to himself by his spirit . what remains ? but that it should be our care for the future not to grieve that good spirit of god ; but to rejoyce him with good works , that we also may rejoyce with him and in him ; enjoying that blessed estate of spiritual life here , preparing and waiting for the full possession of eternal life hereafter . finis . some books printed for henry brome , since the dreadful fire in london . dr . william lloyd ' s sermon before the king against the papists . his sermon at the funeral of john lord bishop of chester . a seasonable discourse against popery . a reasonable defence of the seasonable discourse . the difference between the church and court of rome considered . the papists ●●●t : or , their way to gain proselytes . answered by ch. gataker . dr. heylin on the creed . folio . a sermon at the assizes at reading : by joi . sayer , m. a. mr. stanhopp ' s four sermons on several occasions . mr. hampton ' s assize-sermon . mr. tho. tanner ' s sermon to the divided and scattered members of the church . a sermon at the funeral of dr. turner dean of canterbury : by dr. du moulin . education and governing of children of all conditions ; by dr. du moulin . the controversial letters , or grand controversie , concerning the pretended authority of papists over the whole earth . popery manifested : or the papist incognito made known . toleration discussed : the second edition enlarged : by r. l'estrange esq. the vindication of the clergy . manudictio ad coelum , or a guide to eternity : extracted out of the writings of the holy fathers and antient philosophers . written originally in latin , by john bona. a sermon preached before the queen at white-hall, january the 30th being the day of the martyrdom of king charles the first by the bishop of st. asaph, lord almoner to their majesties. lloyd, william, 1627-1717. 1691 approx. 43 kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from 20 1-bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : 2004-08 (eebo-tcp phase 1). a48854 wing l2715 estc r20281 12402576 ocm 12402576 61298 this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons 0 1.0 universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase 1, no. a48854) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set 61298) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, 1641-1700 ; 767:35) a sermon preached before the queen at white-hall, january the 30th being the day of the martyrdom of king charles the first by the bishop of st. asaph, lord almoner to their majesties. lloyd, william, 1627-1717. [4], 32 p. printed for thomas jones ..., london : 1691. half title: the bishop of st. asaph's sermon preach'd before the queen at white-hall. reproduction of original in huntington library. created by converting tcp files to tei p5 using tcp2tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between 1473 and 1700 available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the 25,363 texts created during phase 1 of the project have been released into the public domain as of 1 january 2015. anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. 5% (or 5 pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of 100 instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level 4 of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p5, characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng church of england -sermons. bible. -o.t. -chronicles, 2nd, xxxv, 24-25 -sermons. sermons, english -17th century. 2003-11 tcp assigned for keying and markup 2004-01 apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images 2004-04 john latta sampled and proofread 2004-04 john latta text and markup reviewed and edited 2004-07 pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a sermon preached before the queen at white-hall ianuary the 30th . being the day of the martyrdom of king charles the first . by the bishop of st. asaph , lord almoner to their majesties . published by her majesties command . london , printed for thomas iones at the white-horse without temple-bar . mdcxci . the bishop of st. asaph's sermon preach'd before the queen at white-hall . a sermon preach'd before the queen at white-hall . 2 chron. xxxv . 24 , 25. and all juda and jerusalem mourned for josiah : and jeremiah lamented for josiah ; and all the singing-men and the singing-women spake of josiah in their lamentations to this day ; and they made them an ordinance in israel ; and behold , they are written in the lamentations . we are here met this day to humble our selves before god , for one of the greatest sins that ever was committed by any people that profess'd the true religion ; except only the iews rejecting and crucifying their messias ; and to bewail the greatest loss , i think the greatest , that ever befell any nation , in the death of any one person ; both which sin and which calamity together , i would have parallel'd in one text , but i know not where to find it in scripture . for the example of our saviour is too high to be brought into comparison with any other : and to go lower ( as it becomes us , when we speak of a mere man , a temporal prince ; ) for so excellent goodness in man , for such a blessing in a temporal king , to be so wretchedly lost , so wickedly destroyed , by them that were blessed with it ; there is no example of the like to be met with , i say , not only in scripture , but not in any story that i know , from the beginning of the world to this day . in the age of gospel-story , while christ and his apostles were here , there was then no christian king upon the earth ; and if there had been , we may guess what affection , what obedience , what veneration would have been paid him by them that so abounded in their precepts of those duties , to heathen princes , to cruel tyrants , to monsters of men , such as nero , under whom two apostles knowing they were to suffer death , yet commanded every soul to be subject to the higher powers , the people to submit to them for the lords sake , and their pastors to put them in mind to obey them . they which taught thus , ( and we are sure they liv'd as they taught , ) how glad would they have been to have had those duties to pay to such a prince as we have seen , by some great professors of religion , but quite contrary to their patterns and rules , most contumeliously treated and abused , most sacrilegiously and barbarously murther'd . among the iews , who had many kings of their own religion , some approv'd of god , and others tax'd as they justly deserv'd ; it is observable that their carriage towards them all ( as well the evil as the good , ) was generally such as the gospel requires of us christians . if there were amongst them any murtherers of kings , the scripture is careful to let us know what they were , wicked men , sons of belial ; and it shews us how they sped , they were put to death for it , according to the law of moses ; it is most careful to separate them from the generation of gods people , to shew their detestation of such persons and practices . by what we read , we cannot but judge , they would have trembled to think of that which they that call'd themselves gods people had the impiety to do ; they had the prodigious wickedness to do it , and yet they had the face to call themselves gods people . i am sure 't is in vain , to look for any thing like this in scripture . but to shew how the iews demean'd themselves toward their kings , and first to evil kings , i ought to take my first measures from their behaviour towards saul ; and especially from the most memorable instance of david , whom god himself having declar'd to be a man after his own heart , we have the divine approbation of what he said and did in this matter . but of his excellent behaviour toward saul , besides many other remarkable instances , we have one in the lesson that was read to you this morning . there you heard , how when one brought david the news of sauls death , by a sure token , that he had kill'd him himself , which one would have thought should have been welcome news to one that could never be safe while saul liv'd , and that now upon his death was sure to be his successor ; for all that , david had such a detestation of the fact , and of the impudence of him that boasted of it , that first he caus'd him to be put to death ; he pronounc'd his sentence in those memorable words , 2 sam. i. 16. thy blood be upon thy head , for thy mouth hath testifyed against thee , saying , i have slain the lords anointed : and having thus aveng'd his death , how he mourn'd for it afterwards , we see in his mourning song that he compos'd , and which was read to you out of the same chapter . but we are novv upon the death of a good king , and to shew the peoples sense of this , and their behaviour upon it , you cannot pitch upon an instance more likely , than at the death of iosiah . a most remarkable instance in two respects : first , considering their loss of so excellent a person . and secondly , the many harsh circumstances of his death . for the person , a holy and good man , a just and a merciful prince , such a prince as came not in many ages ; in many hundreds of years . they had three kings , in whom they gloried above all other ; they were david and hezekiah , and iosias . and yet david had faults , which one would tremble to think of . hezekiah was not free from faults , as appear'd when god left him , 2 chron. xxxii . 31. the least evil we read of any king in scripture , is of iosiah . some indiscretion it was perhaps in him , to engage in that war against pharaoh necho . i dare not say it was sin in him , for scripture hath not said it . but if that was not sin , i am sure we read of none that he had . and in this respect , we may place him above david and hezekiah ; so the scripture does in general words , saying , that like him there was no king before him , that turned to the lord with all his heart , and with all his soul , and with all his might , according to all the law of moses ; neither after him arose there any like him . he was a singular prince , and had a singular mark of it in that prophesie , which named him 300 years before he was born : behold a child shall be born to the house of david , josiah by name . no small things you may be sure he was to do , that god thought worth speaking of , and foretelling so many ages before . when iosias was born , and came to be king , he did all those things which were foretold of him in that prophesie . he abolisht that idolatry and superstition , that had grown up under his loose predecessors . he restor'd and establish'd the true religion according to the scriptures : which scriptures were lost , ( say the iews ) through disuse , in the reign of king amon his father ; and it appears in his story , how he brought them to light , and restor'd them unto their authority and dignity . you read how zealously and industriously he provided for the worship of god : for the place of it , by repairing and beautifying of the temple ; for the service by furnishing it with vessels and utensils ; for the solemnity of it , appointing musick according to the commandment of david ; for the festivals of it , he made all israel and iuda to be present at the passover ; he brought all their religions into one , he had that exercis'd in one manner , and in one place ; he made all that were present in israel to serve the lord their god , 2 chron. xxxiv . last verse . all this the scripture saith of him , and approves in him ; and therefore we are sure he did well in it . and as well one would think he might have expected at gods hands , especially , if we consider those scriptures of the jewish dispensation ; which stirred men up to obedience , with the promise of temporal blessings ; and deterred them from sin , with the threatning of temporal punishments . among those promised blessings are peace and long life ; for which , who , in iosias's case , would not have thought he might have taken god's word ? but with this excellent prince it seem'd to fall out on the contrary . for great and just cause , as i shall shew you , ( but it may seem very strange the mean while ) when he had done all that in him lay to advance the kingdom of god ; in an hour unlook'd for , his kingdom was at an end , and his life with it . both these were cut off in the 37th . year of his age , which is but half the age of man , the noon of it as 't is term'd in that prophesie , amos viii . 8 , 9 , 10. 't is a remarkable prophesie , i shall first read you the words , and then i shall shew you the accomplishment . the words are , shall not the land tremble for this , and every one mourn that dwelleth therein ? and it shall rise up wholly as a flood , and it shall be cast out and drowned as by the flood of egypt . and it shall come to pass in that day , saith the lord god , that i will cause the sun to go down at noon , and i will darken the earth in the clear day . and i will turn your feasts into mourning , and all your songs into lamentations ; and i will bring up sackcloth upon all loyns , and baldness upon every head : and i will make it as the mourning of an only son , and the end thereof as a bitter day . all this rabbi salomon iarchi observes , was fulfil'd upon the death of iosiah . the king of egyt there specified , pharaoh necho ( or the lame ) wars with the king of babylon ; and iosiah's country lying between them , he marches through it with an army , without his leave , nay against his prohibition . which injurious attempt against his honour and safety , while iosiah endeavoured to oppose , he engag'd himself in a war , which soon after cost him his life . one arrow puts an end to that holy life , that good reign , that righteous government , by which he thought he had secured a lasting peace to himself and his kingdom . so good iosiah is gone ; and iudah and ierusalem with him . gone are all those blessings they enjoy'd , and hoped for , by his means . there was nothing more to be lookt for , but a bitter day , a day of captivity ; a bitter day according to amos's prophecy ; which they knew , and which if you read over again , you cannot wonder at that which follows in my text ; all iuda and ierusalem , &c. for the method of my discourse upon this text , first , i shall consider what the people of god did in that age , upon the death of iosiah . secondly , i shall consider the reasons of their doing it . thirdly , i shall consider how it is applicable to our occasion . first , what they did , it appears in my text , they lamented him at present , they laid up their lamentations for future times . they had a set form drawn up for that purpose , and they made a law that that form should be observed ; and so it was unto this day , saith the text , that is for above 100 years ; how much longer we know not , but so long we are sure it continued ; for it continued from iosiah's death , at least till the writing of this story , and this was written much above a hundred years after iosiahs's death . secondly , for the reasons of it , which are not in my text , they are easy to be collected out of this chapter , compared with other places of scripture . it appears they had great cause to lament the death of iosiah ; and that , not for any loss it was to him , but for the great loss to gods church and people . first , and principally for the cause of it , that was for their sins . and , secondly , for the punishment of their sins : they were punish'd at present in the want of his good example and government ; and for the future , great cause they had to fear , it might portend and bring on the ruine of their nation . for the third part of my discourse ( that is , ) what we are to do in our circumstances ; it will be very easy to judge , when we have consider'd what they did in theirs . first , at present they lamented king iosiah's death , as being no doubt , a great calamity to their church and to their nation . saith my text , all juda and jerusalem mourned for josias ; in the arab. translation , they were cast down with vehement grief for josias ; in the syriac translation , they laid up mourning and lamentation for josiah ; it was a great , a publick , a lasting calamity ; it deserv'd a great , a publick , a lasting lamentation . especially my text saith , the prophet jeremiah lamented for josiah ; the vulgar translation adds ieremia's maxime , ieremiah above all others . no question but as he best knew the worth of iosiah , so he most grieved for the irreparable loss in his death . but was that all ? i suppose not ; for ieremiah was a prophet ; he foresaw the sad consequence of this loss to his nation : he felt how it shook the foundation of their happiness : he was concern'd , not only for the present , but for after times ; as a wise and good man , he lamented with them of the present age ; as being also a prophet , he lamented for them of future ages . and to engage the whole church to mourn and lament with him , he provided a form , both for the present and for the future . their publick forms in the time of solomon's temple , were no other ( that i know ) but hymns suited to their occasions ; whether ordinary , on their sabbaths , and new moons , and other festivals ; or extraordinary , on their fasts , and days of thanksgiving . for every fast-day , they had a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or song of lamentation . iosiah deserv'd a yearly fast up-upon the day of his death . ieremiah compos'd the office for it , which was a song of lamentation . a song of lamentation , so it is plainly exprespress'd in the original , and it is sufficiently rendred in the septuagint , but imperfectly in our english translation . he made on him a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as the hebrews , a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as the greeks call it , he made a mourning song or psalm of lamentation . which song , being ( as i have said ) the publick office of the church for that day ; he put it it into their hands , by whom that service was to be perform'd . now that was chiefly by singing men and singing women : yet not so , but that all the people join'd with them in singing the publick office , or psalm in their lamentations . they do it still to this day , saith the writer of this book , who is thought to have been ezra the scribe : sure enough , it was one that lived after the babylonian captivity ; for the last chapter and verse of this book , speak of their return from that captivity , and the same is the first verse of the first chapter of ezra . from hence it certainly appears , that till after the captivity , that is , for 140 years , they still continued their lamentation , and still us'd this form of lamentation for the death of iosiah . and they did it not arbitrarily , but by a lavv vvhich oblig'd them to it . so my text saith , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is , they vvhich then governed made it a lavv upon israel , that every year upon the day on vvhich iosiah vvas slain , these offices should be used for the lamenting of iosiah . thus pagnin and malvenda interpret my text. and that which follows , behold they are written in the lamentations ; they understand , not of those lamentations in the bible , but the whole body of the iewish lamentations , that were used upon their solemn fast-days . those now extant in the bible , were particularly composed for the babylonian captivity . which captivity having occasioned so many fast-days in the year ; one for the besieging of ierusalem , another for the taking of it ; another for the destrustion of the temple , another for the loss of the remnant with gedaliah ; these lamentations in after-times swallowed up the remembranee of all other lamentations ; and of this for iosiah among the rest . they remembred it , ( as i have said ) until ezra's time ; when tho' perhaps they observed not the day , yet they continued the office or form for it . but how ? they sung not this by it self , but ( saith my text ) 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 they used this among their other lamentations . but since his time ( as it may seem ) for the shortning of the office , which was long upon those fast-days in remembrance of the captivity , they left out this particular office for the loss of iosiah ; and so probably by this means we came to lose the words of this lamentation . but these four things i have sufficiently prov'd from my text : first , that there was a general mourning for josiah at his death ; secondly , that the prophet ieremy made a particular office for it ; thirdly , that this office was used among others upon the day of lamentation ; fourthly , that this use was established by a law upon israel ; and that this law was observed till ezra's time , that is , for 140 years , even till the end of the babylonian captivity . next , i am to proceed to the reason of this institution . the reason of it was , not for his sake that was taken from them , but for their sakes from whom he was taken . as ( for him ) there was no cause to lament . he died in peace ; or else how could god's promise to him be fulfilled ? 2 chron. 34. 28. it was said to him from god by hulda the prophetess , behold , i will gather thee to thy fathers , and thou shalt go to thy grave in peace . but yet it is plain , that he died in war. what shall we say to this ? he that died in war , did he go to his grave in peace ? then surely peace in gods language is something else than in ours . it is so , it is peace with god. take it so , and there is nothing strange in those paradoxes of scripture , that there is no peace to the wicked , but abundance of peace is to the righteous . these and all the like sayings are plain , if you understand them aright , of peace with god. it is certainly true , that whether peace or no peace , it must be judg'd , by having god to our friend , or to our enemy . this is a sure way of judging , as sure as it is that god is true ; only the truth of it does not appear in this life , as it will in the future . the righteous in this life , though he is in friendship with god , which nothing can break but wilful or habitual sin ; yet his peace is disturbed often times , even with sins of infirmity , 't is eclipst with troubles in this world , it is clouded with melancholy doubts , which even good men are subject to . it is never perfect and clear while we live in houses of clay ; but when these are dissolv'd , then the righteous enters into peace , that is , into the perfection of it ; into that cleer light , the calm sun-shine of gods presence for ever more . now this blessed estate , being that which iosiah gain'd by his death , according to the promise of god ; a blessedness which none can obtain but by death ; and which he could not have had so soon by dying otherwise : what reason had they to lament for iosiah , that was such a gainer by his death ? there was no cause of lamentation for him . they only had cause to lament for his death that lost by it : and that did all iuda and ierusalem . they lost all they had to trust to , they lost the lease of their safety and well-being ; for they held it only by his life , the holy and good life of iosiah . it was decreed against them in the court of heaven , after a long tryal , for their national sins , that they should be carried away into captivity . there was no remedy , for the lord had sworn it , amos 8. 7. i will remove juda out of my sight , i will cast off jerusalem , which i have chosen , and the house of which i said my name shall be there . it was thus decreed ; but when was it to be executed ? not in good iosiah's days ; for it is against gods rule to punish the good child for the wicked father's sake . and besides , god had promis'd him in the fore-mentioned place , that his eye should not see all the evil that he would bring upon that place . what then ? should god for iosiah's sake wholly reverse that judgment which he had sworn to execute upon israel ? he could not reverse it , because his oath was immutable . and yet , for his promise sake , god could not execute it in his days . tho' in his days the people deserv'd it ; for they were then a wicked people , notwithstanding all the good they derived from his influence ; they serv'd god , because he made them do it , 2 chron. 34. 33. they turn'd to god , not with all their heart , but feignedly , jer. 3. 10. even in those days , in the days of king iosiah , as you read in the 6th . verse of that chapter : yet that hypocritical people , was protected by this religious prince ; god's judgment could not come at them , till he was taken out of the way . but when he was removed , they lay bare to the vengeance of god. then he would have a full blow at them , then wrath was to be poured out upon them to the uttermost . then god's judgments were to rush in upon them , like the breaking in of the sea. then they were to suffer those things , which to hear of , were enough to make ones ears tingle . 2 kings xxi . 12. ier. xix . 3. and if they understood this , as we are certain they might , and jeremy did understand it ; we cannot wonder that all juda and jerusalem mourned for josiah , and jeremy especially : since they saw , and he saw it especially , their walls and bulwarks were broken down by that good king josia's death . they had lost that good prince of whom they were not worthy , and were now to expect those things of which they were most worthy . they had great cause therefore to lament themselves before god. they could not but do it voluntarily , that were sensible of their condition . and they did well to make a law for it , to oblige them that were not sensible . but beside this cause , which was peculiar to them ; there was another in common to them and us , and all nations ; that is , considering their own sin , and god's punishment of it . for the death of a good king is a great publick calamity . and such calamities are always for the sins of the people . i begin first with the punishment , for of that we are most apt to be sensible . and yet many are not sensible of that ; not of a publick punishment , till it comes home to themselves , till it touches their own persons and families ; 't is pity that such should ever want such punishment ; but for such as have a sense of publick affairs , they cannot but be deeply sensible of this ; that , the loss of a good king is a great calamity to a nation . the death of any king is a loss , unless god change him for a better . but he must be extream bad that is not better then none at all . it was never worse with israel then when there was no king amongst them ; for then , every one did what was good in his own eyes . in the 4 last chapters of the book of judges , god says this four times over , as fit for more than common observation . but specially there is a great loss of a good king , a good example , a good governour , one that makes it his business to do all that can be done for the protecting and uniting of his people , for the preserving and advancing of truth and peace , of religion and righteousness among them . such a nursing father to the church , such a wise manager of the state , such a fortress and bulwark to his nation , when he is taken away from them ; what can they think of it ? if they are not lost to all sense , they cannot but be sensible of this . a good king being so great a blessing to a nation , vve have cause to impute the loss of him to our sins . we are taught so in sundry places of scripture . and therefore vve are taught to lament for those sins ; both national and personal ; for our ovvn sins and the sins of our nation . for our own sins in the first place . it should be every ones care , when we bewail the publick calamities , to consider , that such are for the sins of the nation . but the nation is made up of individual persons ; and i am one of those individuals , therefore i am to search into my own sins , ( i speak now as being one that lived and sinned in those times ; ) to lay my hand upon my breast , to examin my own heart , and seriously to consider , how far i contributed to that publick guilt which brought down this publick judgment upon us . and as far as i find i contributed to it , to confess and bevvail my ovvn sins before god ; to ask pardon ; and that i may be capable of it , to mourn deeply and heartily ; and to shew the proof of it in my real amendment ; that as i have throvvn in my talent , into the national sin , so i may do my part in promoting the national reformation . if i have no sin of my own to mourn for , ( vvhich in strict speaking is impossible , ) but if i have no presumptuous and clamorous sin to answer for ; or if my sins are of a latter date ( which is the case of the greatest part of you that hear me ; ) yet for such , they are all to consider themselves as members of this nation , and mourn for the sins of the nation ; for those epidemical sins , that brought down such a publick judgment upon us . for so doing , we have the examples of ez. 9. 3. of neh. 9. 16. of daniel 10. 1. how did those holy men mourn , and humble themselves before god for the sins of ages past , that brought upon them the babylonian captivity ? and yet that captivity also was past when they poured out their souls before god , in tears for the sins of their fathers . how much more have holy men lamented for the sins of their own age ? the prophet david on this account poured out rivers of tears , psal. 119. 136. the prophet ieremy 9. 1. wish'd that his head were water , and his eyes a fountain of tears , to bewail the sins of his nation . but especially our blessed saviour himself , tho' he had no sin , yet he had tears for them that had , luke 19. 42. he beheld ierusalem and wept over it , saying , oh that thou hadst known , even in this thy day , the things that belong to thy peace ! but now they are hid from thine eyes . tears are of no use , without hearty endeavours , where endeavours may be used , and we have reason to hope they may do good . and therefore these also were applied , by those holy men whom i have mentioned . and these also are required of us , even our utmost endeavours , every one within the sphere of his calling , to bring others to a sight and sense of their sins ; and to persuade them to join with us , every one , by his particular , to help on the publick reformation . this is the end of all judgments , which are not to final destruction , isaia 27. 9. this is the fruit of them to take away our sin . and this is the end of our sorrow , 2 cor. 7. 10. godly sorrow works repentance to salvation , not to be repented of . and this is the end of our fast days , as god teaches us : ioel 2. 12. turn you to me with all your hearts , with fasting , and with weeping , and with mourning ; and rent your hearts , and not your garments , and turn you to the lord your god. so hosea xiv . 1 , 2. o israel , turn unto the lord thy god , for thou hast fallen by thy iniquity ; take with thee words , and turn to the lord ; say unto him , take away all our iniquity , and receive us graciously ; so will we render thee the calves of our lips. this ought to have been the fruit of their lamentation for iosia ; but for want of this , it did them no good ; their iniquity was their ruine . that ours may not be so to us , god grant we may mend that fault in our lamentation . 't is our business on this day to lament our iosiah , above 40 years after ; as the iewish church did theirs , 140 years after his death . i shall first consider the cause of our lamentation , and then our duty in consequence of it . on both these heads , i have much more to say then i can bring within my time . but if i do exceed , i hope you will bear with me ; for i suppose i hinder nothing but what may well be spared on this day . our business on this day , is to lament for the death of our iosiah ; that most excellent prince , on whose name his greatest adversaries have fastned no more , nor indeed no other blame , then god hath left upon the memory of iosiah . but whatsoever good we read of in iosiah , it is known , to all that knew him , to have been eminently in that prince , whom we lament on this day . they were both alike , born and bred up in the true religion . but herein the advantage was on our iosia's side , that this was he true christian religion ; which as far excels the iewish , as the clear sun-shine doth the light of a dark misty day . and as we have reason to believe that josiah had studied his religion , for he as well taught as commanded both his priests and people their duties ; so had our josia . he understood his religion throughly . it was his judgment that indear'd it to his affection . and with both these together , like a true defender of the faith , he maintain'd it all ways against all sorts of adversaries . especially , he was a most zealous observer and assertor of god's worship , as was josia . he was an heroick pattern of all virtues , as was josia . he was like iosias in all the divine perfections of his life ; and for our sins he was too like him in suffering an untimely and violent death . so the parallel runs quite through between the two persons ; and it doth not fall short in any part of that duty that was paid to their memories . all that my text saith , was done upon the death of iosia , we have seen , and yet see , the same done to the memory of our king. all true servants of god in our church , do and will for ever bewail and lament for him . we have a set form prescrib'd for it , which was read to us upon this day . and it is to be read yearly upon this day , for ( as my text saith , ) it is made an ordinance throughout israel . but in the lamentation of the iews for iosia , there was , as i have shewn , a just reflection made , by ieremiah especially , upon those sins of the nation , for which god depriv'd them of that blessing that they enioy'd in such an excellent prince . the like was made afterwards by daniel , and by ezra , and by nehemia , upon those sins of their people in those times , which provoked god afresh to send down his judgments upon them to their utter destruction . this is that we have reason to fear ; and their way to prevent it must be ours . our reflections upon the sins of this nation , as well before the kings death , as since , even to this day , in order to our amendment , these are the most useful and necessary ingredients of our lamentation . and this will be more requir'd of us , then it was of the iews , in respect of that much greater light which god hath given us. we shall find in our account , that we are the disciples of christ ; and that in the upper form of his school , whatsoever we think of it . we have his religion in as great perfection , as ever it was in any nation . this advantage we have had by our reformation from popery . ever since , god hath given us the free use of the scriptures ; and together with it , those helps of learning that never were before in any age ; which singular blessings of god , to set forth to you as they deserve , would be the business of a book , and not of the end of a sermon . now what returns to god have we made for all this ? i must needs say , for an age after the reformation of religion , there seem'd to be a great reformation of mens lives . there was then a zeal for religion kindled in their hearts , by seeing so many holy men burn for it in queen mary's days . but when that heat was over , ( their first love i may call it , ) as they cool'd to religion , so they went off by degrees , from their primitive purity and holiness . it was but too visible in this blessed monarch's reign , that they that had the conduct then of religion , had not the same zeal for it that they had , whom god made the instruments of our reformation . they were indeed more concern'd than they for external things , but not so much for that which is the soul and life of religion . this gave occasion to others to fly out another way . they call'd every thing of external worship , popery . they were against all imposition , even in lawful things . they made such a noise against it , as turn'd mens heads . they so scar'd them with little things , made great by false lights , that they run into the greatest evils to avoid them . into a war , the worst sort of it , a civil war ; a bloody rebellion , that drew a long train of calamities after it . it came to this at last : we lost the best king that god ever gave to this nation . how we lost him , i tremble to say ; and yet we all know ; it is the saddest part of our lamentation on this day . it soon appeared what a blow this gave to religion , by the general dissolution of order and of discipline in the church . and to the nation likewise , by the confusions that followed ; which , if they had run a little further , we should soon have ceas'd to be a nation . in this miserable condition , when we lay ( as it were ) gasping for life , it pleased god out of the cloud to look upon us . he gave us , as it were , a new life , a resurrection from the dead . he restor'd us , when it was visible that none but he could do it . it was such a mercy to this nation , such a heap of mercies together , that all nations stood amaz'd at it . we cannot but be astonish'd our selves , if we consider what opportunities ▪ god put then into their hands . they that were at the helm , needed but ask and have , whatsoever they thought fit , to settle both church and state. to have secured truth , and peace , and unity , and love , and holiness ; in a word , all that pleases god , and all that makes a people happy . we have cause for ever to lament the loss of these opportunities . but how much more the wretched purposes to which they were misapplyed ? for the gratifying of mens lusts , for the wrecking of their revenge , for the enriching of themselves and their friends . for them that had no such designs , they seem'd to live like men without any . instead of glorifying god , they fell to drinking of healths . instead of being stricter in religion , they grew looser in their lives . instead of frequenting god's worship , they fill'd the play-houses , and worse places . instead of adorning the gospel , they expos'd it to the scorn of our adversaries : instead of composing differences among our selves , they were rather for widening them . this was bad enough otherwise , but much the worse through their fault that should have mended these things . instead of reforming , they us'd ways to debauch us more ; and instead of uniting , they us'd ways to inflame our divisions . it was a riddle , that any government should suffer such things ; till at last it appear'd , they were not only suffer'd but design'd . the design of it was plainly this , to bring in popery again . and that had certainly return'd ; it had prevail'd over us e're this time ; if god had not wonderfully deliver'd us from it . it pleas'd god to give us a second resurrection , more wonderful then the former . the marks of gods hand were so visible in it , at first , and are so daily more and more ; that he is blind that doth not see them . there is enough , one would think , to convince even the atheist to the belief of a providence . but whosoever doth believe it , should consider the work of god ; and whosoever considers , cannot but see what it drives at : and he that sees that , how can he but comply with his design ? it is plainly the design of god by this turn , to establish the protestant religion in these kingdoms . and in order to that , to unite us among our selves : all that can unite in worship , and the rest in their interests and affections . and especially , to unite us in that common design , of driving out all immorality and prophaneness out of this kingdom . it is not sense , it is a plain contradiction , to call that a reform'd religion , which hath not the power of reforming men's lives . it is the purifying and reforming of these , that is the chief business of religion . and this is the chief design of god's providence , in this revolution . that this is gods design , he hath shewn us particularly , by giving us such princes , as enjoin us nothing but what they are patterns of themselves . i know not what can be a clearer token of the design of gods providence than this . but hath this good providence of god the effect that he designs , and may justly expect at our hands ? we are so far from it yet , that it is a shame to say what all men know . we are now , as to our morals , perhaps as bad as ever we were . i fear i said too much , in saying perhaps : it is too sure , it is notorious to all the world. there never was louder swearing , never more open drunkeness , never more impudent adultery , such daily robbing , and killing , not only in houses , but in the open streets . and if this licentiousness should run on , what will it come to in time ? this is a lamentation , and shall be for a lamentation . we are so far from being fit for those mercies and blessings , which we had otherwise all the reason in the world to expect and to hope for under their majesties government ; that now on the contrary , we have reason to fear that god will have mercy on us no more ; that having tryed the utmost means to do us good , when those fail , he should give us over as incorrigible . my principal hope is in the mercies of god. not his ordinary mercies , for we seem to be past them ; but i speak it with respect to those absolute promises that he hath given to his church , to be fulfilled in this age. god's promises will be made good to his church , though we deprive our selves of the benefit of them . it was an absolute promise that god made to abraham , that he would bring his seed out of egypt , and that he would seat them in the promis'd land. and god was as good as his word ; though of all them that came out of egypt , only two had the full benefit of it ; all the rest of them died in the wilderness . god will fulfill his promises to them , and only them , that are careful to perform the conditions . he preserv'd righteous lot that was griev'd with the filthy conversation of them with whom he liv'd in sodom , when that city was destroyed . and at the destruction of ierusalem , he did set a mark upon them that mourn'd for the abominations of jerusalem . he will do the like for all them that fear his name ; he will preserve them from the common destruction . they sha●● be mine , saith the lord of hosts , in the day that ● make up my iewels . i will spare them , as a ma● spares his own son that serves him . then shall y●● discern between the righteous and the wicked ; betwee● him that serves god , and him that serves him no●● mal. iii. two last verses . god grant that this may be the lot of all th●● hear me this day . god grant this blessing effect● our lamentations : that beholding the judgment of god , considering those that are past , and dreading those that are to come ; we may fear to 〈◊〉 against god ; we may not only keep our selves unspotted from the world , but do all we can to save others from sin and death , snatching them ( as the apostle saith , ) like brands out of the fire . at present , it would be a greater thing to stop the growing course of wickedness , then it will be afterwards to restore religion and vertue . and restor'd , i trust , it will be to a greater lustre then ever , by their majesties zeal , and wisdom , and diligence ; which will be wholly applyed to this business , when god hath well discharg'd them of the other , the great burden of war that is now upon their hands . god grant a speedy and happy issue of it , for his mercies sake , through iesus christ our lord. finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a48854-e230 ecclesiasticus xlix . 4. 2 kin. xxiii 25. 1 kin. xiii . 2. amos viii . 8 , 9. 10. 2 kings xxiii . 27. 2 chron. xxx . 28. a sermon preached before their majesties at whitehall, on the fifth day of november, 1689 being the anniversary-day of thanksgiving for that great deliverance from the gunpowder-treason, and also the day of his majesties happy landing in england / by the bishop of st. asaph, lord almoner to their majesties. lloyd, william, 1627-1717. 1689 approx. 42 kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from 20 1-bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : 2005-03 (eebo-tcp phase 1). a48852 wing l2713 estc r20308 12402603 ocm 12402603 61300 this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons 0 1.0 universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase 1, no. a48852) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set 61300) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, 1641-1700 ; 767:33) a sermon preached before their majesties at whitehall, on the fifth day of november, 1689 being the anniversary-day of thanksgiving for that great deliverance from the gunpowder-treason, and also the day of his majesties happy landing in england / by the bishop of st. asaph, lord almoner to their majesties. lloyd, william, 1627-1717. [4], 32 p. printed for robert clavell ..., london : 1689. half title: the bishop st. asaph's sermon before their majesties, nov. 5. reproduction of original in huntington library. created by converting tcp files to tei p5 using tcp2tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between 1473 and 1700 available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the 25,363 texts created during phase 1 of the project have been released into the public domain as of 1 january 2015. anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. 5% (or 5 pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of 100 instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level 4 of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p5, characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng bible. -o.t. -psalms lvii, 6-7 -sermons. gunpowder plot, 1605 -anniversaries, etc. thanksgiving sermons. sermons, english -17th century. 2003-11 tcp assigned for keying and markup 2003-12 apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images 2004-11 mona logarbo sampled and proofread 2004-11 mona logarbo text and markup reviewed and edited 2005-01 pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a sermon preached before their majesties at whitehall , on the fifth day of november , 1689. being the anniversary-day of thanksgiving for that great deliverance from the gunpowder-treason , and also the day of his majesties happy landing in england . by the bishop of st. asaph , lord almoner to their majesties . by their majesties command . london , printed for robert clavell at the peacock in st. paul's church-yard . mdclxxxix . the bishop of st. asaph's sermon before their majesties , nov. 5. psalm 57. 6 , 7. they have prepared a net for my steps , my soul is bowed down ; they have dig'd a pit before me , into the midst whereof they are fallen themselves . my heart is fixed , oh god , my heart is fixed : i will sing , and give praise . on so great an occasion as this , two such great occasions as god has given us , for a perpetual remembrance of this day ; our deliverance heretofore from the gunpowder treason , and now again from the imminent danger of popery and slavery : such abundant , such overflowing matter of thanksgiving to god , i confess i am jealous of my self , may draw me forth into a trespass upon this great audience ; there being so much to speak of , that one hardly knows what to leave out . and therefore i am the more pleased with that wholsom order of the church that confines us to a text ; which order being observed will keep us from running too far out of our bounds ; though if i should exceed but a little beyond my hour , i hope the good affection which carries me forth , will be accepted so far , as to excuse me at least for any tolerable prolixity . my text is part of a psalm of david , whom i shall consider at this time , not as speaking for himself , but for the whole church of god , as being the sweet psalmist of israel . and therefore passing by the occasion upon which this psalm was composed , ( which was a deliverance that david had from saul , as we read in the title of the psalm ) ( i say , passing by his particular occasion , ) i shall consider the words of my text , as they may fit the churches case upon any such like deliverance ; and especially on both those deliverances which we are to remember this day . so abstracting from david's particular case , and taking his words as spoken in behalf of the church ; not to be tedious in explaining them to you , i shall only give them a little enlargement by way of paraphrase on my text. ( saith our psalmist ) they had laid a net in my way , and my soul ( i. e. ) i my self , in the hebrew phrase , was bowed down ; i was just stepping into it . but when i came near , i saw it was more than a net , there was also a pit which they had dug for me ; there was not only a net to take me , but a pit to kill me , or rather to bury me alive . but for all that , i am escaped out of danger , and they that dig'd the pit are fallen into it . surely this was god's work , of which therefore he ought to have the glory ; and in him i ought to trust , i will trust in him for the future . this is the meaning of these words ; my heart is fixed , oh god , my heart is fixed ; i will sing and give praise . in the text thus explain'd , all may be reduced to two heads : first god's mercy to his church ; and secondly the churches acknowledgments to god. first god's mercy to his church , in delivering it from a great danger . the danger is made much the greater by these three circumstances of it . first , that it was secret ; secondly , that it was near ; and thirdly , like to have been fatal . first , that it was secret and hidden : that is a terrible circumstance indeed , especially of any great danger . be it never so great , what one sees , he may find one way or other to avoid : he may so order things by good taking heed , that either it shall not come upon him ; or if it doth , it shall do him no hurt : he may break the force of it , he may at least so compound , that it shall do him as little hurt as is possible : but there is no compounding with he knows not what nor whom : there is no warding off a blow which one , cannot foresee ; it is upon him before he is aware of it : such a danger comes over one like a net ; and such was our psalmist's , saith he , they had prepared a net for my steps . secondly , he was near stepping into the net : so i understand these words 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 my soul ( i. e. ) i my self , was bowed down ; i was just dropping into it . that is another terrible circumstance . it is terrible indeed , in case of any great danger , for the nearness of it lessens the hope of escaping . there is more hope of any danger , while it is yet afar off , that either it may not come at us , as things may happen ; or however , it will not come presently , it may be not till one is provided against it : but if the danger be so near , that it doth not give him time , then he cannot provide against it , he must take what comes , he cannot help it , he must suffer both that and all the consequences of it . but thirdly , then his hope is , that whatsoever he suffers it may not be his utter destruction . his hope is , that at least he may live after it ; and if so , what he loses now , he may recover at another time . so the church said , mic. 7. 8. rejoyce not against me , oh my enemy , though i fall , i shall rise : so one may hope to do , if he falls upon plain ground . but this was the worst of david's case , that his enemies had dug a pit for him ; and he that falls into a pit , is either kill'd or sore hurt , and so disabled that he cannot get out : especially when there is a net to hold him there , then he is lost to all hope ; where he falls , there he lies without remedy . now , for god's mercy in his deliverance , that follows ; and of this likewise there are three degrees . the first is not mentioned but supposed ; that through god's mercy he escaped both the net and the pit. in any great danger , if one escapes , and no more , that alone is a great mercy of god. but , secondly , here was not only that mercy in david's case , but here was also an act of god's justice upon his enemies . what is more just than this ? that every one should eat the fruit of his own doings , that mischief should light on the heads in which it was contrived , that they that dig pits for others should fall into them themselves ? thus david tells us it happen'd to his enemies . and when it did so , if they had any sense in them , they could not but acknowledge there was a great deal of justice in this . but , thirdly , to make a deliverance perfect , it must be such as david prays for , psalm 141. 10. that his enemies may fall into their own nets , and that he may ever escape them . they that are so delivered from their enemies , have reason to hope that they shall be troubled with them no more : their enemies being so disabled with their fall , that they will not have strength to do them hurt ; or so dismay'd , that they will have no mind to it , for fear of worse another time . there is but one thing more to be wisht and prayed for , upon such a disappointment of our enemies ; and that is , that it may be a means of their conversion from error and sin. of this we ought never to despair , tho' our hopes of it have failed us at other times . but the greatest hope we can have is from such a disappointment as this . if this would convince them of their sin , and of their folly in fighting against god , so it would be a means of their conversion , and so it would be a happy fall to them. happy that fall by which men rise to everlasting life ! oh joyful sight ! to all good men upon earth , and to the blessed angels in heaven . but without this , where it cannot be had , a bare deliverance , when god sees fit to grant no more , and especially if it be a perfect deliverance from our enemies , such as david here describes ; this is that which deserves a thanksgiving to god , such as followeth in the next words . it is a thanksgiving that begins in the right place . my heart is fixed , oh god , my heart is fixed . how it was so , he tells us elsewhere ; it was by trusting in god , psalm 112. 7. the righteous man's heart is fixed , trusting in the lord. and for this trust , as we have a sufficient ground from what we know of god's goodness to his church , and much more from his gracious promise of preservation ; so we are abundantly confirm'd by such an experience as this , of the truth of his promise , and of his goodness to us in particular . secondly , out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks . what one is full of , he cannot but impart it to others : and every one will do it his own way . this was david's way in my text , i will sing and give praise . the hebrew word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 here used , signifies both to sing and to play upon an instrument ; it joyns vocal and instrumental musick together . so that david's words exactly rendered , would be these ; i will compose a psalm , and i will sing it to musick . he teaches us , upon such a deliverance , to use all the expressions of rejoicing and thanksgiving together , that can be made forth by any outward act : to stir up our selves to praise god for his mercies , and to stir up others likewise to do it by our example . all these things which i have said in general , i am now to bring home to our present case , in both the deliverances that we are to remember this day . and first , as concerning the gunpowder treason ; i ought to say something of the danger , before i speak of our deliverance from it . but before both these , i ought to say something in answer to them that would perswade us that there was no danger at all . they tell us it was a plot of our side , into which some few of their catholicks were drawn by the then secretary of state ; and when he saw his time , he discovered it , as ( they say ) he might easily do , the whole thing being contrived by his wit , and carried on with his privity . in answer to this , i am first to do right to the justice of the nation , as well as to the honour of that great minister ; and to shew , that this was a plot of the conspirators against the state , and not of the state against the conspirators . having shewed that it was truly so , then i shall proceed to shew you the danger of it , in those three degrees of danger in my text. first , the profound secrecy of it . secondly , the nearness to execution . thirdly , the mischief if it had taken ; i want a word great enough for it , it had been a death's wound , a fatal blow , both to church and state , to our religion and laws , to every thing that is sacred in this nation . for the conspiracy it self , it was so black , so inhuman ; it so outdid the wickedness of the worst of mankind , that one would think none but devils could have devis'd , or would have had to do in it . but there are principles that make men like devils . the men of those principles are called the frogs that come out of the mouth of the dragon , rev. 16. 13. i doubt not that prophetical description was intended of the jesuits ; whom i mention , as being the authors of this devilish conspiracy . the prime architect in it , was father garnet , their superior in this kingdom : who took in as many more of his order , and of their chosen disciples as were thought fit to be trusted with the secret of it . and let their successors excuse it how they will , by saying , as they do at this distance of time , that it was secretary cecil that drew them into this plot : that 's a thing that was never heard of in those days . the parties themselves never charged him with it , they never laid it upon any other then themselves , they all own'd it , and some of them gloried in it , both living and dying . i appeal to their own confessions for the truth of what i say , and to all the writers of that age for the truth of their confession . but because in saying all the writers , i may seem not to be particular enough , i shall therefore name cardinal bellarmine in particular . he writ against king james in the name of matthaeus tortus : but he afterwards own'd that book to be his , and writ the vindication of it in his own name . bellarmine was a jesuit himself , and zealously concern'd for his order ; he shews it sufficiently in his book which he wrote at that time . he might very well have inform'd himself from father tesmund , who was in the plot , and fled for it to rome , where ( to shew how little they abhor'd that wickedness ) he was preferred , he was then the popes penitentiary . and yet for all the information he could give him , bellarmine knew nothing of this . he never thought of this shift to thro it upon cecil . so far he is from that , that he owns that king james's deliverance was not without a miracle of providence : which he could not have said , without mocking god , as well as betraying his cause , if he had imagin'd that the minister of state had bin author , or so much as privy to that conspiracy . but if any papist would see and be convinced of the lateness of this imagination , let him look into morus the jesuit's history of the english mission of the society . he writ this book above fifty years after that time ; it was but a little before king charles the second's restauration . there he gives an account of this treason , and of the fathers of the society , that were in it , and that suffered for it . but he has not a word of this excuse . he lays the matter wholly upon themselves , as an excess that they run into out of a zeal for their religion : and so he leaves it upon them of his own order , which most certainly he would not have done , if he had had any knowledge , or any opinion of this fiction . much more i could say of this kind , if it were proper to load my discourse in this presence with multitudes of quotations . but thus much i thought might be needful , to shew , that we have not mocked god , all this while , and that we are not doing it at this time , by giving him thanks for that which was not his ; for that which was in truth but a trick , and not a real deliverance . how real and how great a deliverance this was , i am next to shew , by setting before you the danger we escap'd , and that in all the circumstances of my text. first , for the secrecy of it , that was wonderful ; nay , it had bin wonderful in any other hands , but it was not so in theirs that had the management of this . there is no people in the world so provided as they are for secrecy . first , by their doctrine of satisfaction for sin , and of merit , by promoting their catholick cause . this passes generally with them of the roman church : and 't is that which so animates them with zeal for their religion . but particularly , among the jesuits , their doctrine of the lawfulness of lying for the cause ; they call it the doctrine of equivocation ; by which they can affirm any thing tho' it is never so false , they can deny any thing tho' it is never so true ; nay , they ought to do it ( as their casuists say ) when it is needful for the service of the church . add to this , their clergy's power over the laity ; which enables them to infuse what they will into their heads ; and they must believe it , ( as they commonly do , ) with an implicit faith , and they follow it with as blind an obedience . then on the other hand , if the laity have any design , it is delivered under the seal of confession to the clergy . so garnet said , at first he came into this secret , it was delivered to him by catesby under the seal of confession : and being askt , why he had not discovered it then , for the preservation of the king and kingdom ? he did not stick to say , that it were better all the kings of the earth should perish , than that he should discover what was said to him in confession . but besides all these general things , which are of great use for the covering of any design ; there was that particular secrecy in this , because not only their lives depended upon it , but the salvation of so many millions of souls , as were by this means to be brought into the catholick church . these were most weighty considerations , they are charms that never miss their effect , wheresoever they are apply'd . we see what effect they had formerly , in that great secrecy before the missacre of paris . i shall say nothing of it , but what i have from capilupi , a roman , that writ soon after the massacre , and described it as a glorious thing , and carried on with admirable secrecy . he saith , it was carried on so for four years time ; whereof , for twenty months together , it was known to no more but five besides the king ; he saith , for six months after it was known only to fourteen persons ; but it was known to above two hundred persons for two days before the execution ; and yet all this while , it was kept so close , by all that were privy to it , that , ( as that author sufficiently proves ) the hereticks were not aware of it : they were so far from that , that they had not the least supicion , till it broke out all on a sudden , at midnight , first at paris , and from thence it ran in a train all france over , till ( as thuanus saith , who is of undoubted credit ) there were murthered no fewer than thirty thousand persons , who were many of them the most considerable of all the reformed in that kingdom . we see yet stranger effects of these charms of secrecy : in ireland , we saw a great instance of it in our memory . the design of the massacre , and of the rebellion there , was carried on by numbers of men throughout the whole nation . they covered it so , that there was no suspicion of any evil design : there was no ground for a suspicion , unless it were their excessive civility , and kindness , and endearments to the protestants , at that time more then any other . they were some of them so over kind , as to make themselves the guests , and to lodge in the houses , of those protestants , whose throats they were to cut the next day . but when once it had broken out , it was carryed on with all fury , to the slaughter of i know not how many thousands . but i will tell you what i have read in a book that was soon after printed at lisbon ; it was writ by one of their priests , that calls himself constantinus marullus ; he tells us , the protestants say there were kill'd above a hundred thousand ; it may be so , utinam omnes ! would we had kill'd them all ( saith he in his catholick charity . ) now knowing these instances of their secrecy in such matters , and knowing the principles from which it proceeds ; we cannot wonder , that , in the hands of men of the same principles , this gunpowder design was carried on with the same secrecy . tho it must needs be known to about twenty persons that had their particular parts to act in it ; and tho there was a general notice of it , that the papists had throughout the kingdom ; they knew that there was something extraordinary in hand , for the good of their catholick religion , and they had especial prayers for that purpose ; yet none knew any thing of it but themselves . the protestants had no suspicion of it , how could they ? when they had given them no provocation . no provocation did i say ? they were so far from that , that they oblig'd them with favours : i say this out of king james's book . he tells us that during those three years that he had reigned before the gunpowder treason , which treason was a hatching all the while , yet all that while there was no papist in england that suffered any thing upon the account of religion : on the contrary , they were treated with favour , as if they had the laws on their side : they were admitted to court ; they were employ'd in embassies ; they had honours conferred upon them as well as others ; and they seemed to be in as good humour as they had reason to be in these circumstances . but all this did not hinder them from going on with their design ; nay it rather encouraged them , it helpt them to carry it on . for being under no manner of jealousie , they found themselves so secure , that at last they were even open in what they did . they had their meetings both in city and country ; they workt in their vault without fear ; they bought and laid in their powder and other materials ; they armed themselves at home ; they held correspondence abroad : they left nothing unprovided for , that was necessary , either to finish their work , or to justifie it when it was done . this advantage they had by their secrecy and profound dissimulation , to make themselves unsuspected and trusted , and so to do that which they could not so well have done otherwise . and by this means they came so very near the effecting of their design , which i noted as a second degree of our danger . we were as near being catcht , as david was in the case which he describes ; the trap was laid for him , and he bowed down to it , he was just falling in , when he saw a pit ready to receive him , even ready to swallow him up . this was the case of our whole church and nation . the great representative of these , the king , and his parliament , were to have met in the usual place , and there this net was prepared , there was a pit provided for them ; even there under the house where they were to sit , there was a vault dug , a magazine of powder laid in , great iron bars were laid over , there was an engineer at hand , the match was ready laid , it was siz'd for an hour , a fatal hour , of this morning , the fifth of november ; in a minute of which , in a moment , all the governing part of this nation , and god knows how many more , all that came within the reach of it , were to have been blown up . lord ! what a thunder clap had it been to this poor church and nation ? what an earthquake would it have made through all europe ? what a fatal blow to the protestant religion , both here and all the world over ? it was a blow that would have been felt to all posterity . how many of the greatest persons now living would never have been born ? and how many more would have had cause to wish themselves of the number ? it would have made a strange alteration in the world ; and especially here in england : it would even turn ones head to think of all the particulars . but some of the principal things i must consider now in the third place , to shew how fatal a blow it would have been . and here i ought in duty to begin with the king and royal family . i shall do it the rather , to shew how little reason they have to brag of their loyalty : they i mean of the roman catholick religion , who not only excuse , but do little less than worship them that were the prime authors of this . first i say , that if this plot had taken , there had been an end of the reigning family . this king and queen had never been born : no , nor any that descended from king charles the first of blessed and glorious memory . that prince , though he was very young at that time , yet he must have taken his lot among the rest : such was the indulgence of his father , that he would have both his sons to be with him at his entring into that parliament ; and so they were all to have been blown up together . for the lady elizabeth , ( who was afterwards queen of bohemia ) she was then in the country ; and to seiz upon her , they had framed a hunting match , at which she was to have been taken , for what use i cannot say , probably to have been put into a nunnery . but that none of that family was to have reigned , it was determin'd before by that pope , in whose time all this business began . he was resolved upon the exclusion of king james before his coming into england ; and had set out his two breves for that purpose : which act of the popes , ( as garnet himself said , ) was that which put them upon this treason ; they thought it their duty to throw out him whom the pope had commanded them not to receive . well! but the crown must be placed somewhere , and which way would the pope have disposed of it ? that appears in the letters of cardinal d ossat , who was then at rome , and inform'd the king of france of this mystery . he tells him , that by father parson's contrivance , ( who at that time govern'd their counsels for the english affairs , ) the pope would have found a way to have marryed his nephew to the lady arabella , to give him at least some colour of a title to the kingdom . we find in these letters what means were then used to engage the kings of france and spain to put him in possession . i do not remember the end of this matter : nor i am no farther concern'd in it , than to shew that the pope was in very good earnest , in those breves , to throw out the now reigning family . it is no great matter whom they would have set up in the stead . it must have been one that was throughly made for their purpose . one that would have gone through with them in their design of restoring their catholick religion ; and in order to that , in their methods of governing the kingdom . and for the government of the kingdom , it appears what course they design'd . we have a large account of it in father parsons's model of the reformation . i mention him again , as one that govern'd the counsels of those times . he proposed in the first place , to set up a council of reformation , that should have the conduct of all things for five or six years . that council should have been composed of popish bishops , and other zealous catholicks , ( to be sure such as would have been ruled by the jesuits . ) they were to have granted some kind of toleration at first , till they could settle things to their mind . then they were to have a parliament , of which all the members were , not to take a test , ( take heed of that by all means , ) but only to make a profession of the catholick faith , and to bind themselves to it with an oath , without which they were not to be admitted to be members . then this parliament should have made it treason for any member to propose any change of religion for the future . having thus secured the votes , they were next to have repeal'd all the laws against popery , and they were to have revived and put in full authority ( these are his words ) all the laws that ever were in ure here in england against heresie . after that we may be competently sure , there should have bin no more toleration . then the parliament should have restored all the church lands . they should have cleerly taken in all that hereticks had in possession ; but for those that were held by catholicks , they should only have paid the old rents , and so held them still as their tenants . there were many other particulars , upon which i have not time to enlarge . but he comes to this at last , that when all things were settled their way , by act of parliament ; then there should be an inquisition settled likewise . but because that is an odious name , it should have bin called something else ; but it should be the very same thing which at rome they call the holy inquisition . and when they had settled that in this kingdom , then england would have bin as catholick as spain or italy . and so having secured this kingdom to themselves , they had made a fair step towards the extirpating of the northern heresie . no doubt this was it that they drove at ; in which they could hardly have faild , if this plot had taken ; it had bin fatal , not only to us , but to all the protestant religion . from so secret , so near , and so fatal a danger , it pleased god to deliver us , as on this day , which therefore we ought to celebrate with thanksgivings . with perpetual thanksgivings , if it were but for that single deliverance . it had bin a great deliverance , if there had bin nothing else in it but a bare disappointment of their present design . many other deliverances we have reason to believe god has given us , even from this sort of adversaries , that we have never thankt him for , because they never came to our knowledge . some mercies of this kind we can name , of which we knew nothing at the time : but we have gathered it up afterwards from some of themselves that have bin privy to their conspiracies . i am perswaded there have past very few years , in which they have not had some design or other on foot , of which we have had no information . you cannot but judge so , if you read coleman's letters , to say nothing of other books of older date . god has disappointed them , by such ways as he has not bin pleased to bring to our knowledge . he is a true friend , that doth things for us at that rate : that seeing us in danger or want , never stays to be askt , but helps us even without our knowledge . we owe him the more thanks for this , because he doth it unknown to us : and yet because we know it not , we cannot thank him with any particular acknowledgment . how much the more are we obliged to thank god for mercies which we certainly know ? for what he doth for us in that signal manner , that the psalmist describes in this text ? when he not only saves us from the net which our enemies have laid for us , but when he causes them to fall into the pit which they have dig'd before us . this is the second thing to be observ'd and acknowledg'd in our present deliverance . it was observ'd and acknowledg'd by some of the powder traytors themselves . when they found their treason was discovered , it was at holbech-house , ( i think that was the name of it , ) when a quantity of powder that they were drying , blew up , and hurt several of them , and much dismaied all the rest ; then they could not but see and confess , that god had taken them in their wickedness . others saw afterwards that which was a more visible token of his judgment , when their heads met together on the top of that house which they would have blown up . but his judgment was yet more visible upon popery it self , on whose account that devilish conspiracy was made . the discovery of it was the greatest blow that popery had ever received in this kingdom since the reformation . it was upon this happy discovery that the chief part of that provision was made that has secured us against it ever since . it was then that the oath of allegiance was framed , that has bin the chief distinction between protestants and papists : and then that most of those laws were enacted , that have bin ever since a great security and fence to our religion . it was such a fence , as , if our governors would have stood by , had certainly secur'd as well their government as our religion . our enemies could never have broke it down , nor climb'd over it , if it had been lookt to with ordinary care . but it was our unhappiness , they had always a friend at court ; some friend or other to lend them a helping hand . and what came of it ? under the neglected and trampled fence bred those adders that stung them to death who should have kept it garded and repair'd . afterwards , through the just judgment of god on our sins , wo unto us ! our enemies , whom this fence should have kept out , not only got over it , but got the government on their side . we could not believe it a long while . we ought to be so tender of the honour of our princes , as not to believe any ill of them till we cannot help believing it . we canot help it , when they will let the thing be no longer concealed . but it was happy for us , that before this was declared , upon occasion of some breaches that were over-hastily made , this fence was repaired , and made stronger by additional laws . then our fence was so strong , that our enemies found it necessary to take away our laws , that they might come at our religion . oh how fain would they have had the consent of a parliament to do this ! a church of england parliament , to be a kind of felo de se ! to take away that which secured , not the spiritual indeed , but the bodily life of our church . how fain would they have blown us up with an opinion , that we must give up our laws , forsooth in a complement of loyalty ! as if to do otherwise , had bin to have distursted the king. so they made him believe , and so they would fain have perswaded you. prodigious impudence ! for jesuits to do this ! them that never endured a king of another religion , one moment longer , than till they could come at his heart blood ; for them to take upon them to teach you loyalty ! you of the church of england , that not only received a king of another religion , but did every thing that he could ask , except the giving up of your religion and laws . for that indeed you humbly desired to be excused . you could not do like your selves in giving up these . you hoped he would not take them from us . we knew he could not do it , without making this another kingdom . blessed be god , for that steadiness of mind , which generally shew'd its self upon this occasion ; not only in the nobility , gentry , and clergy , but even among the commonalty of this kingdom . it was to a miracle , even our enemies being judges ; such a steadiness as no man could hope for , and such as god only could give . but when we would not be wheedled out of our laws , then , they that could do what they would with the king , were for other ways , then they were for forcing them from us . and for this , what likelier way than by a standing army ? that they thought at first to have raised here in england . they might perhaps think that soldiers would not be much concern'd for religion . but they found their mistake . in all england they could not raise an army to bring in popery . what then ? they must bring them over out of ireland . there they had a nation of catholicks , for their turn ; and if those had not sufficed , there were french enough ready at call , who at that time had nothing to hinder them from coming hither . in this state of things , they durst try what the patience of the nation would bear . and so having first broken over the test-laws , they next proceeded to suspend the other penal laws . and the same pretence they had for that , would have reacht all our laws : for they did it by a dispensing power , which they made the king believe was no more but his lawful prerogative . the laws being thus trampled under foot , it was visible what we were next to expect ; there was no other prospect , but of arbitrary government , and of popery ; both which , being settled here once , would not easily have been removed . we see how it is in france ; there was a government by laws , and there were two millions of protestants under the protection of those laws . but where are they now ? there are no laws but the king's will : and it is his will that there must be no protestants : all his subjects must be of his religion : those that are not , he sets his dogs at them , he hunts them like wild beasts , in his country , and out of his country . this he doth for his glory , as being the most christian king ; and if other princes will follow him , no protestant shall live in the world. he engag'd the duke of savoy to do the like in his country : and lent him his dogs , he even thrust them upon him . they hunted the vaudois , till they had kill'd above half that poor people : of the other half , part were starved in prison , part were driven out of the country , and the few that remain'd were forced to abjure their religion . this was actually done there , within these three or four years . and god knows how soon the like might have bin done in england . it might ? what should hinder ? when our laws could not secure us . what should hinder ? but the want of hands to do the business effectually . but he that both gave the example , and lent hands to the duke of savoy ; would have seen that hands should not have been wanting in england , when it had been time to have followed that example . sure we are , that the guides of our king's conscience did approve of the example , and were mad to have him follow it . we are as sure that they were in strict alliance with france , from whence , as they had their counsels , so they could not doubt of assistance . and tho it would have cost them nothing , that king knew how to pay himself for it , in empire , of which he is greedy and insatiable . to gain this , he wanted nothing but to have england in dependance on him . he wanted nothing else to enable him , to oppress all the rest of his neighbours , and to rob them of their dominions . no doubt the other princes of his religion were sensible enough of their danger , by england's coming into a dependance on the french monarchy . how much more were the protestant princes and states , that saw themselves by this means exposed to the utmost hazard , as well of their spiritual , as of their temporal concernments ? they were all concern'd ; but knew not how to help themselves or us ; till god raised up one among them .... blessed be god .... i cannot say what i would on this subject , for i must not forget where , and before whom i speak . but i may speak of the works of god , which he hath so done , as that they ought to be had in remembrance ; and of these i shall observe these three things , and only give touches upon each , and so leave them to your meditation . first , how extraordinarily god had prepared things for our deliverer to do his work among us : secondly , how his good angels conducted and went along with him in it : and thirdly , how god blessed him with success above all human hopes and expectations . first , for the wonderful concurrence of things abroad that made way for this revolution ; they were such as no politician could have contrived or brought about : perphaps it is not so proper for me here to name the particulars . the mean while , here at home the preparation was made in mens hearts : in the hearts of the people , which being only in the hands of god , that was his work most certainly . then , when all things were ready for the work , god found a fit juncture for it . all the french power being engag'd in that most unjust war on the empire . these things that i have named were great helps towards our deliverance , and he is blind that does not see the hand of god in them . how much more in the expedition it self ? which is the second thing . in this , at the first setting forth , god seemed indeed to frown ; without any hurt , but only to shew , that the winds are his and not ours . and this appeared wonderfully when his time was come , by his employing them so in favour of our deliverance . it had been an extraordinary thing for the winds to come at any ones call ; as claudian sung to theodosious the emperor , oh nimium dilecte deo — no man knoweth that poet , but he remembers the rest of the verse . but god made them do more than that for our deliverer . they directed him which way to sail . they chose him a landing place , the best perhaps that could have been found in this kingdom . and when they had brought him hither , they set him down , and there left him , and turn'd back against his pursuers . what was all this ? but the work of god that makes his angels spirits , psal. 104. 4. he makes the winds his angels . i think that 's a better translation . i am sure god made the winds his good angels for our deliverance . then thirdly for his landing , it was upon this memorable day . yesterday was the king's birth-day , it was also their majesties marriage-day ; on both accounts , to be celebrated with yearly thanksgivings : but this day brought the fruit of both those blessings to these kingdoms . shall i call this our birth-day ? or rather the day of our resurrection ? it is a day that brought us new life from the dead . it brought nothing but life : there was no man dyed for it . and then as his landing was without blood , so was all his march without blood , and it ended in a conquest without blood. such a conquest as the sun makes upon a mist , that only disperses it , and clears the air from it , and makes the people glad that it is gone . the thick mist of popery is gone , i trust in god , so as to return no more . that 's it that makes it a perfect decisive deliverance ; such as that of israel was from the egyptians , when moses said , you shall see them no more for ever , exod. 14. 13. in this trust let every one that loves our israel say , my heart is fixed , oh god , my heart is fixed ; and for this deliverance , as long as i have any being , i will sing , and give praise . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a48852-e230 cornelius mac mahon . clement viii . a sermon preached before her majesty, on may 29, being the anniversary of the restauration of the king and royal family by the bishop of s. asaph, lord almoner to their majesties. lloyd, william, 1627-1717. 1692 approx. 44 kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from 17 1-bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : 2005-03 (eebo-tcp phase 1). a48855 wing l2716 estc r6946 12988563 ocm 12988563 96274 this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons 0 1.0 universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase 1, no. a48855) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set 96274) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, 1641-1700 ; 719:16) a sermon preached before her majesty, on may 29, being the anniversary of the restauration of the king and royal family by the bishop of s. asaph, lord almoner to their majesties. lloyd, william, 1627-1717. [4], 25, [3] p. printed for thomas jones ..., london : 1692. advertisement: p. [2]-[3] at end. half title: the bishop of st. asaph's sermon preached before the queen at whitehall, may 29. reproduction of original in huntington library. created by converting tcp files to tei p5 using tcp2tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between 1473 and 1700 available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the 25,363 texts created during phase 1 of the project have been released into the public domain as of 1 january 2015. anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. 5% (or 5 pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of 100 instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level 4 of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p5, characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng church of england -sermons. bible. -o.t. -psalms cxviii, 23-24 -sermons. sermons, english -17th century. 2003-11 tcp assigned for keying and markup 2003-12 spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images 2004-12 mona logarbo sampled and proofread 2004-12 mona logarbo text and markup reviewed and edited 2005-01 pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a sermon preached before her majesty , on may 29 , being the anniversary of the restauration of the king and royal family . by the bishop of s. asaph , lord almoner to their majesties . by her majesties command . london , printed for thomas jones in lincolns-inn new square next clare-market . 1692. a sermon preached before her majesty , at white-hall , may 29. 1692. psalm 118. 23 , 24. this is the lords doing , and it is marvellous in our eyes . this is the day which the lord hath made , we will rejoyce and be glad in it . the day for which david intended this psalm , was probably the day of that great revolution upon the death of saul , by which he was exalted to the throne of his kingdom . it was not long before this , that david had said , i shall perish one day by the hand of saul . he confessed afterwards , that it was in his hast that he said this ; psal. 31. 22. not considering ( as he ought ) the promise of god , that he should live to be king of israel . but now , after saul himself was cut off by that terrible judgment of god ; which david lamented , as you see , 2 sam. 1. 17. yet being thus secur'd from that which he fear'd , and seeing his way open to that which god had promised ; now he corrects that hasty word of his . he says here , vers . 17. i shall not dye , but trve , and declare the works of the lord. what works ? that he sheweth in the following words , ( there are other words between ; but i pass by them , for i am not now expounding a psalm . ) verses 22. 23. the stone which the builders refused is become the head stone of the corner . this is the lords doing , and it is marvellous in our eyes . it is plain how these words were true of david himself , who , tho he was saul's son in law ; and made so on the account of his merit , which was so conspicious every way , that the honour of so high a relation was the least part of his character : yet they that were in power about saul , finding that saul had a jealousy of him , inflamed it to that degree , that david was thrown out , not only of his place , but of the kingdom . and so he continued in exile till saul's death . but then , by a strange turn of affairs , and of the people's hearts ; first , the house of juda , and afterwards all the tribes of israel , anointed him king. and so god turned the kingdom to david the son of jesse . 1 chron 10. last verse . this i take to be the lite●al sense of the words , verses 22. & 23. beforementioned . but as da●id was a most illustrious type of the messiah who w●● the son of david according to the flesh , and who is called by the name of david in some of the prophecies : so the actions and events of david's life , were many of them types of the like actions and events , that should be done by , and should happen to , the messiah . that particularly , which you have heard , of david's being rejected by saul's courtiers and counsellors ; was a type of christ's being rejected by the priests and elders of the jews . and that which you heard of that strange revolution , by which david was advanced to the kingdom ; was a type of the resurrection of our saviour , by which he was exalted to be lord and christ. in both these respects , ( as you have heard ) the stone which the builders refused , was made the headstone of the corner : both these were alike the lords doing , and were marvellous in mens eyes . but especially the last , that of christs exaltation to his kingdom ; to which these words are applied , both by our saviour himself , and more then once by his holy apostles ; this was the very sence , that the holy ghost intended , in inspiring david with this psalm , and the church has used it accordingly . this is one of the psalms the church has appointed to be used on easter day . when we celebrate the memory of christ's resurrection , then , if ever , we have reason to say , this is the day that the lord hath made : we will rejoyce and be glad in it . but as this intent of the holy ghost did not make it unlawful for david to make use of these words in a literal sense , ( as no doubt he did , for his part intend it ) in the composing of this psalm : so , without comparing with the resurrection of christ , ( with which no earthly thing ought to be named , ) when we are in david's case as to our temporal condition , i know no reason to doubt but we may lawfully take up his words . and that 's enough to justify my choise of this text. for the matters contained in it , here are two things in which we have david for an example before us . first , when it pleaseth god to give us such a deliverance , as appears to be the work of god by the marks of his hand upon it , we ought to give him the glory of it , by acknowledging it to be his doing . secondly , when god doth such a work for his people , they ought to shew their sense of it , by rejoycing in the lord , and by keeping a day for that purpose ; of which we may say in david's words , this is the day which the lord hath made . i shall add , that whensoever the benefit is such as is not confined to the present age ; even posterity , as they come to have a share of the benefit , so they are to continue the memory of it , by keeping yearly days of thanksgiving to god. we are now above thirty years after the date of that mercy which we yearly commemorate on this day ; and yet now , enjoying the full benefit of it , we truly may , and therefore ought to say it ; this is the day which the lord hath made . the first of these will be more then i can well bring within the compass of my time ; that where god has done a signal work , we are to acknowledge 't is his doing . this is nothing else , but what all mankind will agree to . all will agree that this is just and right . it is but giving god the glory that is due to his name . the question will be , how we shall distinguish such works as are to be ascribed to god only . i am not now to prove that there is a god , or that he created the world , or that he governs all things in it ; as well things that are wrought by humane means , or otherwise by second causes , as those which god works immediately by himself . these things i ought to take for granted by all that hear me . what is it then that comes properly into our question ? only this , how any work may be appropriated to god , so that this or that , above other , may be said to be of gods doing not to reckon all that can be said of this kind , i shall shew it particularly in these three respects . first , when it is so surprizing a work , that we can assign no other cause , from which it does , or can , proceed , but god only . secondly , when , beside the unaccountableness of the cause , we see the effect is such as we may reasonably believe that god is concern'd for . thirdly , when we see there was a great and near danger of losing that which god was concern'd for , if this had not happened for its preservation . i think these three that i have named are sure tokens by which we may judge , without danger of mistake , that any thing that happens in this manner is of god's doing . 1. first , when we see a thing done , that is great and extraordinary in it self , or is like to be so in its consequence , it sets us presently on thinking whence this should proceed . for we know that nothing happens by chance : every thing has a cause , wheher we know it or not . but if we are so at a loss for it , that either we see no cause at all , or none that can reach the effect : what then ? we judge the cause to be something that is to us invisible . the heathens , as they held every thing which they could not see to be a god , so when they saw any thing done which they knew not how any creature should do , they ascribed it to god. thus the magicians of egypt , when they saw moses turn dust into lice , a thing which they could not do with all their inchantments ; they confessed that this was the finger of god. when the syrians saw their mighty armies overcome by a handful of israelites ; they knew it was not done by humane strength ; what then ? it must be a divine power that assisted them . when the jews that were returned from the babylonian captivity , had built up the wall about jerusalem in fifty two days , which was a very unaccountable thing ; even their enemies the moabites and others that saw it , confessed that this was the work of god. thus they judged , not from any peculiar notions of their own nation or religion ; but it was the reasoning of humane nature , upon that hypothesis , that there is a god that governs the world. and therefore much more , we that have revelation for this ; wee that have the holy scriptures , which teach us , that from him and by him are all things ; when we see such things done , as could be from no other , it confirms us that such things must be from god. it is that allwise and allmighty being , that sheweth himself now by his ordinary providence , in such works as are above our reason and strength , no less then he did by works of miracle , to them that lived in scripture times . secondly , especially we see this in such works as appear to be done for such purposes as wee have all reason to believe god would be most especially concerned for in this world. this is the second thing that i proposed , among the ways we have to judge that any great work is of god's doing . the old romans , in judging of criminal matters , when they would kn●w the author of any thing that was done , one of their fi●st questions was that of cassius , cui bono ? who has been , or who was like to be , the better for this ? if the ben●fit of it redounded to any person , whether to himself , or to his children , or his family ; that gave a shrewd suspicion that he was the author of it . the same way one may guess at the author of any action , whatsoever the nature of it may be . and by this measure god is pleased to give us leave to judge of him and of his doings . this he tells us in the first place , that he made all things for his glory . it is that which we are therefore to consider in the first place , as being the chief end of all his doings . whatsoever is contrary to that , ( and so is all sin whatsoever , ) we are sure he is not the author of it : and though he suffers such things , as far as he sees fit , yet he does not even that , but so as it may turn to his g●ory . but of all things that he has made , he loveth those things best that are fittest to set forth his glory . those are here upon earth , the rational beings , whom he create● in his own image , howsoever by sin they are fallen from it . again , among these , his chief care is for them whom he has re●●emed to himself . especially he takes care for the b●dy o● his redeem'd ones , that is , for his church . and therefore for those societies of men that are his church in the several kingdoms or nations . as this is his chief care for persons , so for things , he is chiefly concerned for those things by which man sheweth forth his image : all those godlike qualities , of truth , and righteousness , and peace , and charity , and mercy , and the like . and above all , for true religion , and the true worship of god. these things are directly for his glory ; therefore these things are his great concernment in the world. that gods greatest care of all is for his church ; this is so clear , that they that held a multiplicity of gods , the heathens , thought it most reasonable to believe , that every god should be most concern'd for his own people . they believed the god of israel would do things for his own people , that he would not do for any other . and therefore when they saw great things done for israel , they did not doubt that those things were done by israel's god. in like manner , whatsoever may be done by any other supernatural power ; as it cannot be denied that devils may do great things , that may resemble the wonderful works of god ; yet they are to be distinguisht by this , that whereas god's works are for the good of his church , and for the promoting of religion and goodness , which are his great concernment in the world ; whatsoever tends to the destruction of these , we may be sure it is not the work of god ; it is the enemy that hath done this . and yet , when the enemy has done his worst , ( which may go very far towards the destruction of the church , so far as to bring it into great sufferings , by the permission of god , for the chastisement of his people ; which having obtain'd its effect , they will have cause to thank god for their sufferings : yet i say , when the devil has done his worst before it comes to utter destruction , god will find a way to deliver his people ; and that is truly the work of god. 3. and the neerer they were to destruction , the more visible is his work in their deliverance ; that 's the third thing i have to shew . the greater danger there was , of our losing that for which god is concern'd ; so much the more of his hand appears in our deliverance from it the greatest dangers are those , which , as to men , appear to be insuperable . therefore the more any danger appears to be such , the more it appears to be worthy of god , that he should deliver us from it . for though as to him , all things are easie alike : no one work is harder then another ; to make the world out of nothing , no more then making lice out of dust : yet as to us , there is a great difference ; for we are most affected with such works as seem to us to be of the greatest difficulty . when all humane help fails , then it is worthy of god to shew himself to be the deliverer of his people . and therefore god has chosen such times , when his people have been at or near the very brink of destruction , then to give them deliverance from it . we may see this in many instances in scripture . the most tamed instance is , that of god's bringing his people out of egypt , and through the red sea : we read the like , of hezekiah's deliverance from senacheribs's army : the book of judges is full of such great works of god for the deliverance of his people . such things as god did then by miracle he doth now in the course of his ordinary providence ; things which no man can do , nor can think how they were done . and when he thus delivers his people from such dangers as seemed to be inevitable : and especially when at such a pinch of time , when nothing but destruction is look'd for that then deliverance cometh in the stead : such a work has so many marks of gods hand upon it , that whosoever sees and considers it , cannot but say , this is the lords doing , and it is marvellous in our eyes . now for the application of this , i am to shew all those marks of gods hand , that they are in the work of this day : i speak plainly , in the restauration of the royal family ; and therewith of our church and religion , our government and laws , the most valuable things in this nation . but though that which led in all the rest , and that which giveth the title to the day ; the restauration of the king that then was , and of all the royal family ; tho that i say is , and ought to be , the chief subject , as well of our sermons , as of our prayers and praises on this day : yet i shall at this time crave leave to insist chiefly , upon the restoring of our church , and religion , as being the great concernment of god in this nation : in order to which , kings and queens are chiefly a blessing to a nation . as to civil government , this is the only promise that god has made to us in gospel times ; that kings and queens shall be nursing fathers and nursing mothers to his church : which he has now graciously accomplish'd to us . and therefore to return to the work of this day ; i am to prove that this was the lords doing , by shewing these three marks of his hand upon it . first , that the restoring of the royal family was for the benefit of the church of god , and of the true christian religion . secondly , that it was in a most needful time , when gods true church and true religion were in the utmost danger of being extinguisht in this nation . thirdly , that then god was graciously pleased to preserve and restore it , by such means as were to men unaccountable . these three things being proved , it will certainly appear that the work of this day was the lords doing . the same may be said of all our other deliverances since . i cannot , when i speak of such things , i cannot without ingratitude to god , but mention that mercy of the late revolution ; and those of our deliverances since ; especially that of this present time : all these being so visibly the effects of gods continued care of us ; being all for the same church and nation , all in times of great and near danger , and all with the like evidence of gods hand in them ; so that whosoever considers them severally , cannot but see reason enough to acknowledge , that each of these was the lords doing , as well as the great work of the kings restauration . 1. but first , i am to shew that this was the work of god. it was certainly so , if ours be a true church of god. if it be , did i say ? i said it not as doubting , but taking it for granted , as we have just reason to do . we have reason to insist upon that which has been sufficiently proved in so many excellent books as have been written in the just vindication of our church . i need not say more particularly what has been done of this kind , especially in the last reign , when the press was most open and free to all sorts of our adversaries . that more then liberty , that power they had then , gave the world occasion to see how little they had to say against us . and therefore after such a tryal as this , we ought to take it for granted , that ours is a true church of god , as it stands establisht at this day . to this we may add the testimonies of all the reform'd churches abroad , who not only agree with us in doctrine , but allow of our orders , and worship , and sacraments ; and are so far from denying us to be a reform'd church , that they own us to be the bulwark of the reformation . they that will not allow of this proof , and of these testimonies that i have mentioned ; as they cannot expect to be heard in this place , so if they have any thing to object against them , they will not want an answer , elsewhere . only in this place i cannot but mind them , if they are papists , how they have used to reckon wordly prosperity among their notes of a true church ; and if they are other dissenters , how they used when time was to value themselves by it , that god own'd them by acts of his providence . i hope neither of them will take it amiss , if we tell them again , that god has not left us altogether without witness of that kind . what greater testimonies could he give to any church , then he has done to ours , in those wonderful deliverances he has given us ? not to go to old things , such as that of eighty eight , and at the time of the gunpowder treason : ( tho these were as great as ever were given to any nation ; yet we need not go so far back ; ) we have enough to name of later memory , many and great deliverances , and those fresh in memory , even in the memory of you all that hear me this day . 1. but first upon this day , i must insist on that deliverance that we had at the kings restauration . how great a deliverance that was , they that were not then born , can scarce conceive : but i shall tell you what they that lived then saw and know . we were then , as to our civil government , after many horrible things which i do not love to repeat , after many vain . attempts to set up a commonwealth , which stood like a castle of cards , ( pray pardon the comparison ) we were at last come to be under no government at all : unless i may call that a government which an army sets up and pulls down as often as they please . it was such a state of a nation , than which worse cannot well be spoke or conceived . not to give you a detail of the many mischiefs that are contained in it , i will only give you two examples of the wretchedness of this estate : ( i could name you many more , but these two are the best known , ) that of the kingdom of the ten tribes of israel , and that of the roman empire after commodus's time . first , of the kingdom of israel , after the murder of zechariah , the last king of jehu's family . after his death , there was no king for some years together . then the army set up a king. they kill'd him , and set up another . there were five such kings one after another : every one coming in by the killing of his predecessor . how the nation flourisht the mean while , you may guess : or you may read in the book of hosea : he prophesied at that time ; and he tells us , how this people having cast off god , he cast off them to utter destruction , and this way he brought it upon them . in the roman empire , after commodus's death , who was the last of the aelian family ; after him the army set up whom they pleased , for above a hundred years together . in this time they had about twenty emperors , i mean successively , for of competitors they had near thirty at one time , but i do not reckon these . of those successive emperors , there were but two or three that succeeded their own fathers : all the rest came in by violence , and went out by violent deaths . for the people the mean while , what case they were in you may imagine . at almost every change , there was rapine , and oppression , and blood , till diocletian's time . he indeed put a stop to these evils , but there was no end of them till constantine the great set up a kind of hereditary empire . from these two examples we may guess what we were to have expected , if the power had continued in the army . we had some trial of it , in the last year of their reign : when , ( not to say what they had done before ) they changed the government for us five or six times in the compass of that one year . for religion the mean while , whosoever considers what it was that prevailed in the army may easily judge to what a miserable pass we were brought . there were of all religions among them , but ours : and they granted a liberty to all , but ours . yes , they joyn'd popery with it in their declarations : prelacy and popery were always excepted together . but as for popery , as it was never more freely profest , so i will be bold to say , it never had a greater harvest then at that time . but with prelacy they were in earnest . we found it so , in being deprived of all those rights the law had given us . our liturgy , our sacraments , our offices of worship , tho' they were establisht then as much by law as they are now ; yet men were punisht , without , and against law , for using them . but that which was worst , our body of a church was dissolved , our discipline was trod under foot , our eyes could not see our teachers ; and as for our bishops , the order was near being extinct ; it subsisted but in five or six old men , that probably might have died all within one or two years . let others think as light of this as they please ; they that have a true sense of religion will grant that these were wounds in the vitals of the church ; of which our church had certainly died at that time , if he that raises men from the dead , had not given our church a new life at the kings restauration . but how was that brought about ? i am coming to shew , that it was a most visible work of god : so visible , that i know not whether any thing could be more ; perhaps we may except one thing that hath lately happened ; but certainly there was no greater in all the examples of ancient times . the great instance of old in the christian church , was that which i mentioned of constantine the great . it was indeed the hand of god that brought him into the government . but i do not know whether his coming in was more wonderful then that of the kings restauration . here was certainly a greater force to oppose then any that stood in constantine's way to keep him out of the government . there were , both in england , and all over the three kingdoms , great numbers , that would have done all they could to have hinder'd the kings restauration : being engaged so to do , not only by their affections , but even by their judgment and conscience : ( and few of these , but were engaged by their interest too . ) all these , having swords in their hands , or being backt by an army that had , such a numerous army , of disciplin'd experienced men , as well paid as ever was army in the world , as absolute in their power , and as unwilling to part with it : how was it possible , that all those armed men , should either lay down their arms , or wear them to bring in his majesty ? that those others likewise should give up their interests , and smother their prejudices and disaffections ? that all the kings enemies should be so charmed , that at his coming in , not a dog should stir his tongue against him ? a thing that was certainly done , do i ask how it was possible ? the matter is plain ; that which is impossible with men , is possible with god. it was god that did that which none other but god could do . it was god that partly turned their hearts , and partly insatuated their counsels . their dividing ( as they did ) among themselves , was an absolute insatuation : and when they were thus divided , god turn'd the hearts of part of them to bring in his majesty . but especially it was god that so united the hearts of the people , not only in this , but in all the three kingdoms , as they never were before , nor since , but upon one occasion . if ever there was an agreement of the people , ( we know when there was a thing falsly so called , but if ever there was truly such , ) it was at the kings restauration . other things i might instance , wherein god shewed himself wonderfully at that time . but if there were no more then these three that i have mentioned , i think these are enough to shew it was the lords doing . he did great and unaccountable things , he did them for the preservation of his church , he did them at that time when she was at the very brink of destruction . our church was certainly then at the brink of destruction . but was it never so since ? if we forget , we are extreamly unthankful to god. it is too true , we are an unthankful people , but yet none of us can easily forget so great a dinger as we were in , so lately as within these four years : i know no man of the church of england , ( except a few rotten members , that shewed what they were then and since , none besides , ) but what did acknowledge we were in extreme danger at that time . it was a melancholy thing to have our king , whom our religion binds us to obey for conscience sake , come to be of that religion that obliges him to destroy us for conscience sake . all our hope was , that our practising the duty of our religion would make him be dispensed with for the obligation of his. for we know they have them that can dispense with their consciences in the roman church . and at first we were made to believe it should be as we hoped . but alas ! we soon found those dispensers with conscience were too hard for us . instead of suffering him to let us enjoy our religion and laws , they made use of their power quite the contrary way . it is ( as i said ) a melancholy thing to speak of , or even to think of it . but it was too plain . they had brought things to that pass , that our laws signified nothing but what they pleased : our religion was held at the curtesie of them that were the bloody enemies of it : our obedience was made use of as a perfect snare to us : we must not resist , that our religion would not allow ; we could not petition neither , but at our peril . what should we do then , but let things go on in their course ? they had us bound hand and foot : they might do what they pleased with us : they had us at their mercy , such as it is ; and considering the mercy of jesuits , which in france and in england is much the same , i think we have good grounds to judge , that if they had held their power six months longer , france is no worse kingdom for a protestant to live in , then england would have been at this time . but what hinder'd ? nothing but the prince of orange's coming over : nothing else could have hinder'd in all humane appearance . he was the onely prince in the world , that could and durst interpose between us and the last stroke of our enemies . it was so hazardous an attempt , that i am amazed when i think of it ; how so wise a prince could embark himself in that expedition ; much more , how he could perswade the wary dutch to venture with him , in so many great dangers and difficulties , as if he had miscarried , would have certainly sunk their whole nation . i can give no other reason for this , but that it was 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , an irresistible impulse of god. it was that divine power , that has so often preserved this church and nation , that now took this way to prevent that ruine that was coming upon us . it was god that infatuated our oppressors , to joyn the injuries of a people that could not lawfully resist , with those of a prince that could not lawfully pass them by without resistance : a prince whose fates are so knit to those of the publick , of his countrey , of this nation , and of the protestant religion ; that as it is visible they cannot stand without him , so he shew'd by this proof that he had no mind to live after them . can any one think , that thinks at all , how these just and great interests could have been preserved ? how any one of these could have stood , any otherwise , then by his venturing himself as he did ? or when he had gone so far , how he could retreat afterwards , without taking the government upon him ? when it was ( as it were ) thrown into his hands ; when he must either take that or lose all , for there never was ●ny offer of any other condition . but for the justifying of what he did , enough has been said and written . i am now to shew only this , that it was the great work of god. and of this , the marks are so clear , that it cannot be denied , even by them that would dispute the justice of it . for what can they say to so many things that god only can do , and that all concurr'd together in this matter ? was it by chance , that things were so prepared abroad , that the french king , tho' he had notice of this expedition , yet should be so blinded or benumm'd , as to do nothing to hinder it ? was it by chance , that winds and seas , which at that time of the year are most intractable , were yet so wholly engaged on his side , that they both shut in the english fleet that would have endanger'd him , and brought him safe to the best haven in england for his purpose ? was it by chance that a whole nation 's hearts , divided before in religions and interest , should be now so united as they were , to wish , and pray , and long for his coming ? these are all extraordinary things . yet if only one of these had happen'd , that indeed might have been said to be by chance : but no one or two would have done his business : if all three had not concurr'd as they did , the want of any one would have spoil'd his expedition : and such a concurrence , of such three things together , any one of which was above the power of man , this i take to have been an extraordinary providence of god. whosoever denies this , i cannot but wonder at him . but he that only doubts , may soon find wherewith to be confirm'd . let him consult his own memory of things ; and let him see how every year since this revolution has brought forth a fresh testimony of the care of god's providence . if ireland had been quite lost the first year , it had involved his majesty in the greatest d●fficulties and perplexities . but do you remember how , and by whom it was preserved ? even by the incredible courage and bravery of a few men driven to derry and iniskellin , much unprovided , half armed , and wholly unskill'd in warlike matters . see the next year : if then our fleet had been lost , none can doubt but that would have made a short end of the business . but how was it preserved , at that time , when the enemies fleet were coming with full purpose to have burnt it in the haven of portsmouth ? what preserved us from this great danger ? nothing but a sudden stop of the wind , that would not let them put this well laid design in execution . after that , when they had got an advantage in fight , which quite divided and disorder'd our fleet ; what hinder'd them so many tides while they might have destroy'd it ? nothing could have hinder'd them but the unaccountable will of god. it was about the same time , that his majesty was in that danger , which i even tremble to think of ; and yet there is some comfort in the thought of it at this time . he is sure the only king , if not the only man in the world , that had his skin brusht off with a cannon bullet , without any other ill consequence ; as if it had not come to do any hurt , but rather an honor to his majesty . go on , and remember this last year , when it was of so great moment to his majesties affairs , that he should finish the reducing of ireland that year ; what a strange appearance there was of a divine conduct over his majesties forces , at athlone , and agbrim , and especially at limeric , which could not have been reduced otherwise . they are such marks of gods hand in his majesties affairs , that whosoever is not affected with a sense of it , i should think , that either he has not heard the truth of these things , or he has an ill memory that do's not retain what he has heard , or some worse defect there is that i would not name . sure i am , that upon some of those that were present at the things that i have mentioned , tho' otherwise they were far enough from being over-religious , yet that which they saw could not but make a deep impression . and if that be your case , that only present things will affect you ; then i must crave leave to put you in mind of the things which are hardly yet past . there lies now a great army upon the french coast , and they say transport-ships , that for six weeks together wanted only a guard of ships of war to set them over into this kingdom . and we are told there hath been a sufficient number of ships of war these six weeks ready to set sail , only they wanted wind to bring them , first together , and then into our seas . but the dutch fleet , and ours , have wanted no wind , to bring them out , nor to bring them together . and the french have wanted it no longer , then till our fleet was in readiness , and till all the advantages of number and strength were on our side . then it pleased god to bring them forth , with positive orders to fight us , of which we can give no other account but that it was an insatuation from god. whatsoever the instruments were , it was surely an insatuation from god : who was pleased with their own kings consent , nay by his order , to deliver so many of their best ships into our hands . it was a wonderful thing , that god should give us such a deliverance , much more that he should give us such a victory , and all this by means to which we could contribute nothing . the deliverance was from such a danger , as we may reasonably hope we shall never be in again , after such a victory . a victory , that not only puts an end to the present descent , but that , if we know how to use it , secures us against any the like for the future . a victory , of which it seems to be as true as it was of the spanish invasion : there ended their power at sea ; there ended their terror to our island ; there ended their hopes of an universal monarchy . i might say a great deal more , but this is , i confess , a fresh subject , which is reserved for some other hand . i shall therefore leave it to him to whom it belongs . only one thing i ought to observe , as to the timing of this victory . considering how little the present french king was a friend to our royal family before the restauration : and considering how much he has been an enemy to our church , both before and since : i suppose he had very little joy of that which happened on our nine and twentieth of may. i do not believe that he did ever heartily thank god for it . well! for all that , we thank god for that which happened on his nine and twentieth of may. it was on his may 29. that god was pleased to send us this victory . we have cause indeed to thank god , not only for this , but for so many other great deliverances that he has given us . so many , and so great ▪ he has heapt upon us in our age , nay in a small part of our age , within these very few years ; that i do not believe he has sh●wn the like care of his pro●i●●nce over any other christian nation : nay he scarc● shew'd the like in any one age , over them in the j●wish church . what should be the meaning of our most gracious god in all this ? is it his meaning to set us up like a light on a hill , that we should be a pattern to all other nations ? is it his meaning that we should be hi● instruments to help others , with the like affection and care as he has sh●wn in helping us ? is it his meaning that we sh●uld shew our concernedness for those things which he has sh●wn himself so much concern'd for ? is it his meaning that w● should love the church of england , to which h● has shewn so much love in so many deliverances ? is it his meaning to knit our hearts to their majesties , whom he has so wonderfully blessed and preserved , and whom he has made the blessed instruments of so much good to us ? the good god dispose us , and enable us , to perform his good meaning in every one of these particulars . the lord make us as much concern'd for their majesties preservation and service , as they have shewn themselves concern'd for the deliverance , and for the peace and prosperity of this nation : especially to his majesty , in those great dangers to which he is daily exposing himself , it is all the return we can make , in praying for him , while he is fighting for us . the lord make us alike affected to his church , and alike concern'd for it , as he has shewn himself in all his deliverances and mercies . the lord make us as ready to help our brethren , specially those that suffer for righteousness sake , as he has shewn himself ready to preserve us , and to help us , out of all our dangers and sufferings . but one thing more ; the lord dispose us in all things , to live worthy of his goodness and mercy , as a people that he has so often and so wonderfully delivered ; and that we may shew it by living blameless and harmless , as the sons of god without rebuke in this corrupt age , that we may shine as lights in the world . the lord grant it for his mercies sake , through jesus christ our lord. amen . a catalogue of books lately printed for thomas jones in lincolns-inn new square next newmarket . a discourse of god's ways of disposing of kingdoms . part i. the second edition . price 1 s. a sermon preached before the queen at whitehall ian. 30. being the day of the martyrdom of king charles the first . published by her majesties command . price 6 d. a letter to dr. sherlock , in vindication of that part of josephus's history which gives an account of jaddus the high priest's submitting to alexander the great while darius was living , against the answer to the piece intituled , obedience and submission to the present government . the second edition . price 6 d. a sermon preached before the queen at whitehall may 29. being the day of the restauration of the royal family . price 6 d. these four by the right reverend father in god william lord bishop of st. asaph , and lord almoner to their majesties . a sermon preached before the queen at whitehall aug. 23. by jonathan blagrave , sub-almoner and chaplain in in ordinary to their majesties . published by her majesties command . price 6 d. mr. finger's choice collection of ayres for two and three treble flutes , curiously engraven on copper plates . price 2 s. 6 d. an account of the late action of the new-englanders under the command of sir william phipps , against the french at canada , together with the articles of war composed and agreed upon for that purpose . price 4 d. a dialogue between two oxon scholars . price 3 d. a dialogue between the confederate princes , concerning the affairs of europe . price 2 d. dr. sherlock of death , in welsh . price 2 s. a fatal mistake , or the plot spoiled , a tragedy , as it was lately acted . written by joseph haynes . a moral essay of the soul of man , in three parts . a weeks exercise , preparatory towards the worthy reception of the lord's supper , in meditations , prayers and ejaculations before , at , and after the holy communion ; also rules and exercises how to live well after it . the second edition . a pious office for sick and weak persons , wherein many directions and useful instructions are given them , with supplications , prayers and meditations proper for their condition . in three parts . the effigies of king william and queen mary , with seven new bishops , viz. the most reverend fathers in god the arch-bishops of canterbury and york , the right reverend fathers in god gilbert lord bishop of sarum , edward lord bishop of worcester , simon lord bishop of ely , robert lord bishop of chichester , and richard lord bishop of bath and wells , curiously engraven on a large copper plate by mr. william elder and arthur soley . price 1 s. dr. kenn's practical catechism , in welsh . the lively oracles , by the author of the whole duty of man. octavo . an account of the french king's cruelty over the protestants in france , acted by monsieur st. ruth , at the instigation of the priests and iesuits . price 4 d. finis . a sermon preach'd before the house of lords at the abbey-church of st. peter's-westminster, on saturday the 30th of january, 1696/7 being the anniversary of the death of king charles i of glorious memory / by ... william, lord bishop of coventry and lichfield ... lloyd, william, 1627-1717. 1697 approx. 43 kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from 18 1-bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : 2005-03 (eebo-tcp phase 1). a48856 wing l2717 estc r20280 12402555 ocm 12402555 61297 this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons 0 1.0 universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase 1, no. a48856) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set 61297) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, 1641-1700 ; 767:36) a sermon preach'd before the house of lords at the abbey-church of st. peter's-westminster, on saturday the 30th of january, 1696/7 being the anniversary of the death of king charles i of glorious memory / by ... william, lord bishop of coventry and lichfield ... lloyd, william, 1627-1717. 30, [2] p. printed for john everingham ..., london : 1697. advertisement: p. [1]-[2] at end. half title: the bishop of coventry and lichfield's sermon preach'd before the house of lords. reproduction of original in huntington library. created by converting tcp files to tei p5 using tcp2tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between 1473 and 1700 available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the 25,363 texts created during phase 1 of the project have been released into the public domain as of 1 january 2015. anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. 5% (or 5 pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of 100 instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level 4 of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p5, characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng church of england -sermons. bible. -o.t. -zechariah vii, 5 -sermons. sermons, english -17th century. 2003-11 tcp assigned for keying and markup 2003-12 spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images 2004-12 mona logarbo sampled and proofread 2004-12 mona logarbo text and markup reviewed and edited 2005-01 pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion die lunae , 1. feb. 1696. it is ordered by the lords spiritual and temporal in parliament assembled , that the thanks of this house be given to the lord bishop of coventry and lichfield , for his sermon preach'd on the 30 th of january last before this house , in the abbey-church at westminster ; and he is hereby desired to print and publish the same . matth. johnson , cler. parl. a sermon preach'd before the house of lords , at the abbey-church of st. peter's-westminster ; on saturday the 30 th of january , 1696 / 7. being the anniversary of the death of king charles i. of glorious memory . by the right reverend father in god , william , lord bishop of coventry and lichfield ; lord almoner to his majesty . london , printed for john everingham , at the star in ludgate-street , near the west end of st. pauls , 1697. the bishop of coventry and lichfield's sermon preach'd before the house of lords . a sermon preached before the house of lords , january the xxx th , 1696 / 7. zech. vii . 5. speak unto all the people of the land , and unto the priests , saying , when ye fasted and mourned in the fifth and seventh month , even those seventy years , did you at all fast unto me , even to me ? for the better understanding of these words , it will be necessary to consider the occasion of them , which may be gathered from the three first verses of this chapter . god's people the jews , within a few years before , had been captives together at babylon , and upon the taking of the city by cyrus king of persia , part of them , even as many as pleased , were returned with his leave and favour to jerusalem ; and there , upon the encouragement that he gave them , had begun to rebuild their temple , that was destroyed by king nebucadnezzar . but besides those that were returned to jerusalem , there were others of them that remained yet at babylon ; i suppose chiefly such as had estates there ; tho' some of them might stay there upon other occasions . now after some twenty years , the building of the temple , which had been so long discontinued , being now carried on amain , and near finished , some questions arose among those jews at babylon , whether they should still continue all those fasts which had been hitherto observed by their whole nation . the question was more particularly concerning those fasts of the months ab and tisri , the fifth month and seventh month of their year ; that of the fifth month being for the destruction of the temple , that of the seventh month , for the slaughter of gedalia , and those others of the remnant that staid with him in judea after the captivity . they observed two other fasts , namely of the fourth month , and of the tenth month , whereof one was for the beginning of the siege of jerusalem , and the other was for the burning of that city . these last they thought they had reason to continue , because the city of jerusalem was not yet built . but for those two fasts of the fifth and seventh month , they thought now that the occasion was ceas'd , and therefore the fasts should cease also . but they were not so sure of this , but that they thought best to send to jerusalem for a resolution of their doubt . there was the high-priest , that was their ordinary guide ; and besides , at this time , there were prophets , haggai , and zechary , that had divinc inspiration . these they sought to especially , and by one of them , the prophet zechary , they had this answer from god. speak to all the people of the land , &c. this is but an introduction to that lesson from god , which follows in the ninth verse , execute iudgment , &c. from which words , consider'd together with these in my text , the meaning of it appears to be plainly , as if he had said , consider what kind of fast it hath been , that you have now observed for so many years , for these seventy years that have past since the destruction of the temple , and since the slaughter of gedalia . tho' you have all this while kept these fasts , and did well in it , was it well to keep them so as you have done ? your fasting hath been no more to me , than your eating and drinking hath been ; when you did eat , and when you did drink , was is not to your selves ? verse 6. even so was your fasting likewise , it was to your selves , and uot to me ; for all the while you have liv'd at your own rate , without any change for the better . in plain words , god takes nothing for a religious fast , but that which is joyned with a real reformation ; that which leads to a reformation of life , and that which ends in such a reformation ; such a fast god accepts , and no other . of any other fast he says , who required this at your hands ? esa. i. 12. and so in this text , did you fast to me , even to me ? in the words thus explained , there are several things to be observed . as particularly , 1. that it hath been the way of god's people to appoint and observe days of fasting for any publick calamity . 2. that where the calamity was such , as drew great and heavy consequences after it , they continued their fasting year after year , for many years . 3. that those fasts are acceptable to god , and no other than those , which produce a real reformation . first , it is clear from this text , and from many others , that in the ancient church of god , they appointed days of fasting and mourning , to humble their souls before god , upon any publick calamity . it appears to have been the will of god that they should make such appointments on such occasions , joel ii. 12. god calleth them to this , as a means for averting of his judgments . turn ye unto me with all your hearts , and with fasting , and weeping , and mourning , &c. when without a call from god , men have made such appointments for themselves , it appears that god hath accepted their good will in so doing . so gracious was he , even to the ninevites , jonah iii. 10. and therefore we cannot doubt he would accept the like fasts of his own people . from this instance of the ninevite's fast , it farther appears that this was no jewish rite ; for they of nineve had none but the natural religion , and whatsoever that teaches , is a law to us christians , as well as to jews or heathens . secondly , it is clear from this text , that for such a publick calamity , as draws a train of woful consequences after it ; as the first stroak requires a publick humiliation ; so it may be very fit to repeat that humiliation every year , as long as any of those consequences endure . the burning of the temple , and the destruction of that poor remnant of god's people , were such publick calamities , as deserv'd to be remembred , in a fast , when the year came about ; and they did so remember those things , in the months in which they happened ; the fifth month , and the seventh month , mentioned in my text. but was that all ? no , as oft as those months returned ( which could not be , without minding them of those things which happened in those months ; ) so oft they repeated those fasts . and thus they did every year , for seventy years together , in memory of those great calamities . thus in former times , before the babylonian captivity , when god's people had lost the best king that ever they had , king josias , the only man that stood between them and the heavy judgments of god ; for his death , they had a fast , which they continued till the captivity ; and afterwards , for no less than a hundred and fifty years : we know not how much longer ; but we know it was above an hundred and fifty years after , that ezra writ the second book of chronieles where chap xxxv . 25. that writer saith , they continue it to this day ; that is , till the time of his writing that history . but what is an hundred and fifty years , to the continuance of these fasts in my text ? the fast of the fifth month and the seventh , and also those of the fourth and of the tenth month , all which you read of together , here chap. viii . 19. all these fasts continued in the jewish church , till the last destruction of jerusalem ; which was near six hundred years after . so long , god accepted what they did in observing them ; as we may reasonably judge : because , as we are sure they observed those fasts in christ's time ; for they do so still to this day ; so we see christ did not reprove them for these fasts ; as he did for all the jewish corruptions and superstitions ; nor did they ever tax him for breaking those fasts , and therefore we have no reason to doubt but that he kept those fasts with them . but after his death , they kept them still , till the destruction of jerusalem , as we gather from josephus ; and all this time , the apostles of christ still kept these fasts with them . after the destruction of jerusalem , they were no more the people of god : and therefore it matters not much what they did , as to any authority we can draw from it ; but as to matter of history , we know that for these sixteen hundred years since they are continued still in that nation . and no doubt they will continue , still , in the observation of these fasts ; till their gathering again after their conversion to christ. then it will be fulfilled , which we read in the eighth chap. of this prophecy . where speaking of the conversion of the jews in the time of the messias , the prophet tells them ver. 19. beforementioned ; thus saith the lord of hosts , the fast of the fourth month , and the fast of the fifth , and the fast of the seventh , and the fast of the tenth , shall be to the house of judah , joy and gladness , and chearful feasts . he shews plainly , that this shall be after the conversion of the jews , by what follows in the two last verses of that chapter . what i have said may give some satisfaction to them that have a curiosity to know how long these fasts here mentioned were to continue . but i confess that was beside my present intention . i intended only this , to shew that , in all ages , it hath been the practice of god's church , to keep yearly days of fasting upon such sad occasions ; and to continue those fasts from age to age if occasion required . which being considered , there needs no other answer be given to them that ask a reason of our keeping this yearly solemnity . i do not speak now , of them that are so wicked to justify the king's murther ; but of them that have the same sense of it that we have : and yet , because they do not love fasting ; or whatever the reason may be ; they would not have the memory of it , kept up in this manner . they say , what need is there of this for a thing that was done so long ago ? it is now forty eight years since that blessed king was put to death . and since that time , have we not seen the restauration of the royal family ? was not our fast , then , turned literally into festival ? and do we not keep that festival ever since ? they think much to be obliged to this festival so long after ; but much more to keep a fast for that which , as to them , seems to be quite worn out of memory . now for men that talk at this rate , if they are men of no conscience , such are not to be satisfied . but for them that pretend to tender consciences , they , if they are truly such , may and will be satisfied out of scripture . in my text they see the people of god , in scripture-times , when they had kept four such fasts every year , for seventy years together ; that is a great deal more than forty eight ; yet they were not weary of keeping them . they had no objection against two of them ; but for other two of those fasts , they had an objection against them , much like one of those that i have now mentioned ; their fast for the destruction of the temple , and that for the unpeopling of the land. now , both these occasions were ceas'd . the temple was now rebuilding , and the people was returned from captivity . now , they had reason to think both these fasts might be turned into festivals ; at least those two fasts , they might think , were to be no longer continued . and that was the reason of their sending to know the will of god by his prophets . but what was the will of god concerning this matter ? was it , that they should keep these fasts no longer ? no. but that they should keep them better ; better , then they had done all this while . had they kept them fifty years , as they ought to have done ; ( there was just fifty years from the destruction of the temple , till cyrus his reign , ) then , in the second year of cyrus there had been an end of their fasting . for there was an end of the seventy years , from the 4th of jehoiakim , the time that god had prefixed for the babylonian captivity . in the first year of cyrus they returned from the captivity ; and in the second the foundation of the temple was laid . but then , they were so little reformed by all their fasting ; that , for their sins , the building was stopt the next year , as you may see in the 4th of ezra , and the 10th chapter of daniel . the stop was near twenty years ; in all which time they fasted on , and were never the better . they were content , as haggai complains of them , that god's house should lie waste , while their own houses were in building , hag. 1. 2 , 4 , 9. they had not a zeal for religion ; no , nor had they any justice , nor charity for one another . they were every one scraping for himself what he could get . this was it that haggai and zecharith the prophets then living both preached and writ to reprove . and while it was thus with god's people , though they kept their fasts all this while , god asks them , for whose pleasure , and to whose service they did it ; have you fasted and mourned these seventy years to me , even unto me ? by his question , was it to me that you fasted ? his meaning is , it was not to me . your fast was not such as i require and approve . that which god requires and accepts and approves , is described in the 9th and 10th verses of this chapter , in these words ; execute true judgment ; show mercy and compassion every man to his brother ; oppress not the widow , the fatherless , the stranger and the poor ; let none of you imagine evil against his brother in his heart . these and such like duties he requires , which , being all summed up together , amount to a national reformation . a publick national reformation , is that which makes a fast acceptable to god. this is the third thing i have observed in my text. as to god's people here spoken of , it is granted that they fasted and mourned ; there was no want of that . they rather over did it that way . where was the fault then ? god tells them , it hath not been to me , even to me . if they would have god accept of their fasts , they must do what god intended them for ; even all that he describes in ver. 9th and 10th of this chapter , and all other things of that kind , which i sum up in the word reformation . to discourse of this matter as it deserves , would require more time than you will willingly spare me ; i shall therefore shew you as briefly as i can , these three things , which are all that are necessary at this time . 1. what kind of fasting and mourning it was , that they used in the jewish church . 2. what the reason was that god would not accept it , would not take it as performed to himself . 3. what it was that he would have accepted of them , and will yet accept of us christians . 1. for their fasting and mourning , it was such as consisted all in bodily acts : such as one might perform to the full , and yet his soul might be never the better for them . but they were acts of great severity too , which shewed that they were much in earnest that performed them . their fasting was , not only an abstaining from such and such meats and drinks , as the manner is with some christians , that never eat and drink more deliclously than on such days . but theirs was a total abstinence , especially on some of their fasts , from all kind of sustenance whatever . they held themselves to it with all rigour imaginable . they imposed it not only on themselves , but on every living creature about them . not only men and women , but even the sucking children ; not only humane creatutes , but the very beasts , the herds , and the flocks ; all were kept from meat and drink , as if god would have been moved by their mortification . perhaps the ninevites might think so , when they made their beasts keep their fasts with them jonah vii . 7. but the jews made their sucking children fast , even by god's prescription joel 11. 6. not that god himself could be moved ; but their parents might , by hearing the cries of those innocent creatures , to cry also themselves , the more earnestly , in bewailing their sins before god. 2. then for their mourning , besides their vocal cries , they observed also all those rites , which in those eastern countries they used in their bitterest afflictions . i will name you those rites which are mentioned in scripture , that you may see how severely they punished themselves with them : such as rending of their cloaths , putting sackcloth on their flesh , girding it close to their body ; shaving themselves into baldness , sprinkling ashes upon their heads , and so hanging them down , and sitting desolate ; beating their breasts , and smiting on the thigh ; weeping rivers of tears , if they were so well stored ; or instead of it , pouring out water before the lord. and when they had tired themselves with these things , to make their rest as unpleasant as their labour , their way was , to spread sackcloth on the ground , which they strowed with dust and ashes , and there they laid themselves down for all night ; sometimes for several nights together ; sleeping , only when they could wake no longer . a whole day and night , or whole days and nights together , thus spent in fasting and mourning , in all these dolorous circumstances ; one would think might have pass'd , for sufficient proof of sincere mortification . and so it might in the judgment of men , that see only the outsides of persons and things . but god that sees the heart , saw through all this , into a world of cheat and hypocrisy . he saw that many that fasted and mourned in this manner , did really intend it only for men and not for god. for many of them , god was not in all their thoughts ; but men they thought would see them , and believe them , and be so much the easier prey to them . as for those that did think of god , and had a sense of religion , but did not live under the power of it ; they could not but look upon god as being angry with them for their sins ; and therefore , being in fear of his displeasure , they took this to be the easiest way to pacify him . it is certainly much easier for a wicked man , for a day or two , now and then , to undergo the severest penance , then to bring himself to live constantly in a course of obedience to god. and therefore they that kept their fasts , as you have heard , they did as it were commute ; and chose to give god , that penance on their fast-days , rather than the obedience of their whole lives . they that were not so wise to think of this , yet did the same thing , without thinking ; perhaps first , for company with the others , to do like their brethren ; and afterwards out of custom , to do still as they used to do . this seems to have been the general way of that people , for which god severely expostulates with them , in several places of scripture ; but especially in isa. lviii . from v. 3. to v. 9. i leave them that are disposed , to look the place . it comes to this in short , that their fasting and mourning , was all such as i have described . a meer carnal discipline , that had no inward goodness in it self , nor made them ever the better , as they used it . and therefore it signified nothing to god's design , of bringing men to be like him in righteousness and holiness of life . whether any fasting can conduce to this purpose , and what it is ; that is the last thing to be considered . that there is a fasting to god , tho' not such as they used , this was granted to the jews in many texts , and we that are taught to worship god in spirit and in truth , and therefore have no reason to think our selves obliged to those rigours that were necessary for that carnal and ignorant people ; yet we must not think to excuse our selves so , from the duty of fasting , for the strengthning of our supplications to god upon great and extraordinary occasions . our saviour , when he reproved the hypocrisie of those that placed religion in those outward shews that the pharisees used in their fastings ; yet at the same time he gave rules , how that duty should be performed otherwise , matth. vi. 16 , 17 , 18. and howsoever he exempted his disciples from those jewish fasts , while he was with them , yet he declared , that when he was taken from them , they also should fast , matth. ix . 15. and so we find in the example of his blessed apostle st. paul , he reckons fastings among the things which he endured , not only as a christian , but as a minister of god 2 cor. vi. 5. and again , chap. xi . 27. he seems to value himself by it , that he was in fastings oft , as a thing wherein he out-did other men , even his fellow apostles themselves . but what ? did he place religion in this ? no , at all , he used it only as an instrument of religion . he knew very well , for he teaches us , that bodily exercise profits little . 1 tim. iv. 8. but it is a useful help to that which profits most of all ; even to godliness which is profitable to all things as there it followeth . and for mourning , which is joyned with it in my text , this also is necessary upon the account of sin ; otherwise we should have no occasion for it at all . the angels that have no sin , they have no occasion of mourning ; nor should we , if we could serve god on earth ( as we pray that we may , ) as the angels do in heaven . in short , it is a godly sorrow that works repentance , 2 cor. vii . 9 , 10. all other sorrow , but for sin , is good for nothing , but to break ones heart , as it will , if one takes too much of it . worldly sorrow worketh death , faith the apostle . but as he goes on , godly sorrow works repentance , not to be repented of . godly sorrow is our mourning to god in my text. to god , mourning for ours and other mens sins against him : lamenting , abhorring , and detesting them . this works a resolution against them , which is the real beginning of repentance . and this being followed , is a blessed amendment of life . in order to that , fasting also is profitable , not so much for the weakning of the body , as for the strengthning of the soul. those things which the soul hath chiefly to struggle with , are the appetites and lusts , and affections , and imaginations ; all which are seated in the body , and the soul hath need of help for the subduing of these . as to the appetites , fasting plainly doth the work . you will find it by this days experience , if you fast as you ought to do . you deny your appetite what it would have . and denying it once , you will be the better able to deny it again . and the oftner you do this , the more you will be master of your appetites . the affections and lusts are to be subdued in like manner . it was the way that st. paul gained the government over himself . he was in fastings oft as i shewed you but now . and that way , he kept under his body and brought it in subjection , as himself faith , 1 cor. ix . 27. by this exercise of denying our selves , we also learn to reject all evil fancies and imaginations . they are most troublesome things , if you hearken to them . there is no quiet , but by constant and stedfast rejecting them . for that indeed all these sensual faculties are alike . it is only by feeding and humouring them , that we make them too strong for us . there is no way to master them , but by denying them what they would be at . get the victory over them and keep it ; which is not to be done but by constant exercise ; by such exercise , which is all a kind of fasting , and this fasting is a principal part of it ; i say , by this means , get the victory over them and keep it . by this you set the rational soul in its dominion . and that being enlightned by the word of god ; and being assisted by his grace , which prayer , joyned with faithful endeavours , will certainly obtain ; this will do the work of god. the soul will be transformed into his image : it will be like him in righteousness and true holiness . o blessed affliction , whatever it be , that hath set us a fasting and mourning to so good a purpose ! o joyful trial that hath had this effect , to purge out all our dross , and to restore us to the image of god! o happy rod that hath chastised us into our duty , and made us so wise that we shall need it no more ! when we need it no more , we shall feel it no more . that is certain , in gods way of dealing with nations . for as the jewish church said in her lamentations , god doth not afflict willingly , nor grieve the children of men. all his judgments upon nations , when they are not to utter destruction , they are designed to prevent it , if possible . and therein he is so gracious , that , if one judgment will not do , he will send more , till they have their effect , either to save them , or to fit them for destruction ; and then to make them inexcusable . this is certainly true of any nation , which god hath taken into his particular care ; as he did israel of old , and as he hath done us at this day . he hath shewed his care of us , by so many instances , both of mercy , and judgment , and even in judgment still remembring mercy ; that i do not doubt to exemplifie all that i have said , in the various turns of gods providence over us of this nation ; beginning from that dreadful stroke of god's hand , which hath occasioned our meeting here together on this day . it was a dreadful stroke indeed , the cutting off of that excellent king , of whom the world was not worthy . i think no encomium too good for him ; but that is not so much my business at this time. i am now to consider , whence this terrible stroke came ; and upon what account it was given us , and how we have profited by it since , after so many and many fasts as we have kept on this occasion . whence it came ? is there any evil in the land , and the lord hath not done it ? saith the prophet ? this evil was surely from the lord. it was gods judgment upon this sinful nation . a dreadful judgment it was , such as the jewish church bewailed in her lamentations , lament . iv. 20. speaking i suppose of king zedekiah , a king not to be named with our's the same day . he was one that did evil in the sight of the lord ; and yet he was their king , and see how they lamented the loss of him . when he was fallen into his enemies hands , they lamented him in these words : the breath of our nostrils , the anointed of the lord , was taken in their pits , of whom we said , under his shadow we shall be safe . but when i speak of the judgments of god , which must be for the sins of a nation ; we are first to consider what those sins were , as well as we can do it at this distance of time. they are now so far out of remembrance , that i would not call them to mind ; but that i think i am obliged to it at this time , by the duty of my place . for in vain do we fast and mourn for this judgment , without saying what the occasion of it hath been . i mean only what national sins we are to confess before god ; and what we are to amend , if they yet continue amongst us . i cannot pretend to give a very particular account of our national sins at that time . nor dare i take upon me to charge the meritorious cause of that judgment upon this or that sort of men. some indeed have been too lavish that way , in declaiming against the sins of the court , and of the governing part of this nation ; but they have done it with a wicked design to blast the memory of him that had the least share of them . i beseech god it may not be laid to their charge . but for the sins of the nation in general , i think it cannot be denied , they all sprung from a surfeit of the blessings of god. our religion , our liberties , and our properties , were all in such a flourishing state , as made us the envy of all other nations round about us . and yet here at home , through the practises of some ambitious men , every thing was then represented to the people quite contrary . they were even frighted out of their wits , with false cries of tyranny and popery . in a blind belief whereof , multitudes of the people run into sects ; and those inflamed them into a horrible rebellion ; which the rest of the nation , the generality of them , did but too tamely comply with . and they that , according to their duty , opposed this , yet too many even of them , so far provoked god with their sins ; that he thought fit to punish the whole nation , by depriving it of all those blessings at once , in suffering that excellent king to be murthered , as upon this day . i charge it upon none at this time , but the sins of the nation ; for it must be a national sin , that bringeth down a national judgment . and this judgment was taken aright , by many devout people of the church of england at that time : who immediately humbled themselves under the afflicting hand of god ; and kept a true fast on this day , for many years before there was any law to authorize it . all which time , the authors of this cursed fact , having then the government in their hands ; gave the whole kingdom full occasion to see , what a woful change they had made . but this must needs be said , to do right to those usurpers ; that they severely corrected all vices but those that were chiefly their own . especially drinking , swearing , and cursing , were punished more severely in those times , than at any time before in our memory . adultery , was one while made a capital crime ▪ and though i think none suffered the punishment , yet i must needs say , it was not then so much in fashion as it hath been since . our vices were then the more capable of being brought within bounds , because their nurse , luxury , was so much disabled , by the havock and spoil that the wars had made upon most of the great estates in the kingdom . at last , when the usurpers came to divide among themselves , that united all the rest of the nation . all enmities seemed to be forgotten at that time . the people being thus prepared for such a mercy , god heard the prayers of his poor afflicted ones , and especially of them that had fasted and mourned in secret on this day ; and according to their prayers , god wonderfully brought about the restauration of the royal family ; upon which , this fast was enacted by law ; and now and ever since it hath been observed by the whole nation . it hath been so , now these six and thirty years . but even , from the beginning of that time , might not god well say , was it to me , even to me ? that most pious learned man , who was not the best interpreter of prophecies , yet was in this a true prophet himself . dr. hammond , at his death , which was just before the king's restauration , prosess'd , he was more afraid of the ill effects of that , than he was of any thing that had happened . he feared , that the prosperous state of the church , coming in so upon the sudden , before men were prepared to receive it , would do the church more hurt than all its persecutions had done hitherto . sure enough , that sudden change so turned many mens heads , that they were , as the psalmist faith , like men that dream . if they had been awake , they would have acted wiser than they did and for the generality of the nation , it was wonderful to see what an alteration this made in them . the very pomp of the king 's coming in revived the luxury of the nation ; which had been much chastised and brought down in the troublesome times . the universal joy of it , set all people to the drinking of healths , which before was grown quite out of fashion . the corruption of morals , in other kinds , more than i can name , spread from the court downwards into all parts of the nation . and those immoralities tainted even religion it self . wheresoever they took , they disposed men , either to atheism , or to popery . it was popery indeed , that made its advantage of all the other horrible things , and even of atheism it self ; as it appeared , when popery was come into the government . then , within a short time , a profest atheist , was look'd upon as next to being a good catholick . he that was but profligately vicious , was thought to be in a fair way to it . and no man was accounted throughly fit for publick trust , that would not do things against his conscience . this was so notorious , that it did even turn a great many mens stomachs against popery . they loathed the gross immoralities which they saw were so fulsomly courted by it . drinking and swearing were in a manner yielded up to the roman catholicks . there was scarce any capital crime that would not be pardoned to a convert . the very atheists , that had any sence of honour , were ashamed to be thought of that religion . for our religion , they that had no zeal for it before , were even fond of it when they saw it going away . the dissenters themselves , ( all but those that would have given up the 5th of november for the 30th of january , of them i have nothing to say ; ) but most of the rest of them were so ready to join with us in the common danger ; that tho' they did not wholly unite with us , yet they differed from us amicably . these were fair dispositions for that mercy which god had then for us in store . and he shewed it soon after , when we were come to the utmost necessity . when he look'd , and saw there was none to help , then his own arm brought salvation to us . it was the hand of god , that raised us up a deliverer , to save us from the very brink of destruction . god brought us two plants united together , out of that royal oak , that was cut down upon this day ; and he covered a third of them under the hollow of his hand , which otherwise had been certainly snatched away from us . now , upon such a deliverance as this was , we might have believed that god had accepted our fasts . now we might have hoped he would have turned them into festivals ; that he would have delivered us from all our enemies at once . and doubtless so he would , if we had fasted to a national reformation . there was nothing wanting but that . there wanted nothing on god's part. he shewed his inclinations towards us , by those wonderful preservations he hath given us . and that , not once or twice , but year after year . such has been his continual goodness towards us . but , such is our unthankfulness to him ; that we have grown not better , but worse , upon all the great things that he hath done for us . who would have thought , but that upon that miraculous revolution , and the wonderful preservations he has given us since , we should have been , if not altogether such as he would have us , yet at least much better than ever we had been before ? who would not have expected that we should have mended upon it exceedingly ? but alas ! how far are we from that ? are we not now worse than ever ? our provocations higher than ever ? is not our luxury more extravagant ? are not our adulteries more impudent ? our drinking more profligate ? our swearing and cursing more bold ? in all respects . do we not behave our selves as if we had been delivered for these things ? how can we expect , but that god should now turn his hand upon us ? that he should strike us down lower , that he should wound us deeper , than ever ? alas ! did he not do it , in taking away our blessed queen from us ? the light of our eyes , the breath of our nostrils , the very joy of our hearts ! i can say no more ; i am astonished , as oft as i think of it . this ! was a blow at the root . this may convince us , we have not yet fasted to god we have not , nor never shall , till there be a national reformation . nothing else will please god , nothing else can save us , but this . be exhorted therefore in the name of god , to set heartily to this great and necessary work , every one in his place and station . you that have none but your selves , have the less to do ; but you that have others under you , have the more to answer for ; especially you whom god has advanced into the highest rank ; you that fit in the great council of the nation ; you , above all others , ought to consider , that not only your honour and interest , but the whole nation lies at stake , to be saved or lost by your hands . we have too much reason to fear , from what you have heard . yet , blessed be god , we are not without hope , if we are not wanting to our selves . god hath yet preserved to us a gracious king , now after that heavy stroak of his hand , in taking our blessed queen from us . god hath given him a heart to supply to us what we have lost ; so that in him we have them both in great measure . we have also yet remaining to us , another undoubted plant of the royal stock ; from whom we have one princely shoot , and may yet hope for more , if our sins do not hinder us of that great blessing . we have ( through the goodness of god ) a fair prospect , toward a happy end of that horrible war that lies upon us . god hath taken off pharaoh's chariot wheels , he drives but slowly to what he did . he has been , for some years , wholly upon the defensive ▪ and now , god be thanked , he thinks it his interest to have peace . we have nothing else to fear , but only our sins and our divisions . and our divisions are the fruit of our sins . amend these , and trust in god , he will do every thing else for you . no one of us can do all ; but let every one do his part , in reforming himself and his family , and those that are under him . if all others will do the same with you , the work is done , for which we have fasted all this while . the church and nation are safe , and we are happy . but if others will not join with you in this necessary work , it is sad to think what is like to follow . however , you shall not lose your labour , come what will , you shall find your account by it . you shall , even in this life , in such measures as god sees best for you : and whatsoever you want here , it shall be made up to you , more abundantly , in life everlasting . finis . books printed for , and sold by john everingham , at the star in ludgate-street . a debate on the justice and piety of the present constitution : under king william . in two parts . the first relating to the state : the second to the church . between eucheres a conformist , and dyscheres a recusant . by samuel hill , rector of kilmington , author of solomon and abiathar . the guide of a christian , directing him to such things , as are , by him , to be believed , practised , and hoped for . there are added at the end , prayers to be used upon several occasions . price 6 d. a sermon preach'd before the house of lords , at the abbey-church of st. peter's , westminster , on wednesday , the 11th of december , 1695. being the day appointed for a solemn fast and humiliation . by the right reverend father in god , james , lord bishop of lincoln . a sermon preach'd before the house of lords , at the abbey-church of st. peter's westminster , on thursday , the 30th of january , 1695. being the martyrdom of k. charles i. by the right reverend father in god , humphrey lord bishop of bangor . a practical discourse concerning the redeeming of time. by edward pelling , d. d. chaplain in ordinary to his majesty , and rector of petworth in sussex . a discourse concerning the authority , stile , and perfection of the books of the old and new testament ; with a continued illustration of several difficult texts of scripture throughout the whole work. by john edwards , fellow of st. jsohn's college in cambridge . octavo . miscellany essays . by monsieur st. evremont ; with a character by a person of honour here in england . continued by mr. dryden . in two volumes . octavo . eight sermons preached on several occasions . by nathanael whaley , rector of broughton in northamptonshire . the true royal english school for his majesty's three kingdoms ; being a catalogue of all the words in the bible . together with a praxis in prose and verses , and variety of pictures , all beginning with one syllable , and proceeding by degrees to eight , divided and not divided ; whereby all persons , both young and old , of the meanest abilities , may with little help be able to read the whole bible over distincty , easily , and more speedily than in any other method : with directions to find out any word . together with an exposition on the creed . by tobias ellis , late minister of the gospel . octavo . letters on several subjects : by the late pious dr. henry moore : with several other letters . to which is added , by the publisher , two letters : one to the reverend dr. sherlock , dean of st. paul's ; and the other to the reverend mr. bently : with other discourses . published by the reverend mr. ellis ▪ octavo . an answer to the brief history of the vnitarians , call'd also socinians . by will. basset , late rector of st. swithin , s london . octavo . a sermon preached before the king & queen at white-hall, march the twelfth, 1689/90, being the fast-day by the bishop of st. asaph, lord almoner to their majesties. lloyd, william, 1627-1717. 1690 approx. 45 kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from 19 1-bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : 2005-03 (eebo-tcp phase 1). a48853 wing l2714 estc r20282 12402583 ocm 12402583 61299 this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons 0 1.0 universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase 1, no. a48853) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set 61299) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, 1641-1700 ; 767:34) a sermon preached before the king & queen at white-hall, march the twelfth, 1689/90, being the fast-day by the bishop of st. asaph, lord almoner to their majesties. lloyd, william, 1627-1717. [4], 32 p. printed for robert clavell ..., london : 1690. half title: the bishop of st. asaph's sermon before the king and queen on the fast-day. reproduction of original in huntington library. created by converting tcp files to tei p5 using tcp2tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between 1473 and 1700 available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the 25,363 texts created during phase 1 of the project have been released into the public domain as of 1 january 2015. anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. 5% (or 5 pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of 100 instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level 4 of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p5, characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng church of england -sermons. bible. -n.t. -peter, 2nd, iii, 9 -sermons. fast-day sermons. sermons, english -17th century. 2003-11 tcp assigned for keying and markup 2003-12 apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images 2004-12 mona logarbo sampled and proofread 2004-12 mona logarbo text and markup reviewed and edited 2005-01 pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a sermon preached before the king & queen at white-hall , march the twelfth , 1689 / 90. being the fast-day . by the bishop of st. asaph , lord almoner to their majesties . published by their majesties command . london , printed for robert clavell at the peacock in st. paul's church-yard . 1690. the bishop of st. asaph's sermon before the king and queen on the fast-day . ii peter iii. 9. for the lord is not slack concerning his promise , ( as some men count slackness ) but is long-suffering to us-ward , not willing that any should perish , but that all should come to repentance . the word concerning his promise , refers to that which went before in the fourth verse of this chapter : where it is plain that the apostle speaks of christ's promise of his coming to judgment : that is indeed a promise to his elect , but is rather a threatning to others ; and therefore i shall rather call it a prediction , which is a word between both . by christ's promise or prediction , i suppose he means that in matthew 24. where our saviour foretells in one and the same prophecy , both his coming to destroy jerusalem , and his coming to judge the world. it is the delay of this last coming of christ , against which the apostle foresaw that there would be an objection , by scoffers in the latter days . i shall not consider all the answer that he gave them , nor any more than what lies before us in my text ; nor even that , with relation only to the day of judgment , but as it extends to all the judgments of god ; especially those that end in destruction , as the day of judgment doth . of this , and all other such judgments , saith the apostle , for the lord is not slack concerning his promise , ( as some men count slackness ) but is long-suffering to us-ward , not willing that any should perish , but that all should come to repentance . in my discourse upon these words , i shall proceed by these steps and degrees . first , i take it for granted on all hands , that god is generally very slow in inflicting his judgments . it is that which the scoffers object ; it is granted by the apostle in his answer : they agree in the thing , they differ concerning the reason of it . therefore , secondly , for the reason , as these scoffers would persuade themselves , it proceeds from god's slackness in his government . but this the apostle denies , that there can be any such thing in god. what then should be the cause of god's delaying his judgments ? this is that which we are chiefly to consider . the true cause ( saith the apostle ) is , the long-suffering of god : of which , among many reasons that might be given , he gives this for a principal ; it is from his infinite goodness . it is his willingness by this means to save those whom a quicker way of proceeding would destroy . for the use of all this , i am to shew ; first , how much we are wanting to our selves , if we are not ready to comply with his goodness , if we are not willing to be saved , as well as god is willing to save us . secondly , i shall shew how much it concerns us to take that which is the only way to be saved , that is , by a speedy and effectual repentance . lastly , for our encouragement , i shall shew what assurance we have , not only of deliverance , but of further favours upon our repentance , from that god who so earnestly desires it , that he seems to expose his own glory , he suffers wicked men to call his truth and justice in question , rather than not give time , and not use the utmost means to save them from perishing in their sins . in the design here proposed , i am to begin with that which is granted on all hands ; that god is generally very slow in inflicting his punishments upon sinners . i do not say , he is always so ; for sometimes , nay oftentimes god doth otherwise , he takes sinners in the fact , and doth execution upon the place . i need not mind you of the dreadful examples in scripture , of corah , dathan , and abiram , of ananias and sapphira , and the like . we have oftentimes the terror of such examples before our eyes . to see one killed in a drunken quarrel , or in attempting a robbery , or in ranging to satisfie his lust ; to see a sinner cut off in the first act , or the first discover'd act of his sin : when this happens to any one , tho' we are silent as to his eternal estate , yet we cannot but say , there is a visible judgment of god , by which such a one is taken away , suddenly , as by a whirlwind , in his wrath . and yet we cannot say , that he is a greater sinner , than they are who have their lives prolong'd in their wickedness : nay , of the two , perhaps there is cause to fear their condition much more than the other . for thus much the apostle seems to imply , when he admits there is that that looks like slackness in judgment : for there could be no such pretence , if the most or greatest sinners were judged , and especially if they were judged early in this life . the apostle rather seems to admit of the contrary ; and it sufficiently appears , by many instances , that the greatest sinners have had a long time given them before they have been called to account for their sins against god. if any would see this proved by examples , let him think of the worst men mentioned in scripture ; he shall see how slow god hath been in bringing them to due punishment . of heathen princes , there is none that hath a worse character upon him , than pharaoh , a monster of pride and cruelty , and contempt of god ; which brought down upon him all the plagues of aegypt , so famous in history . by the last of those judgments he perisht : but then it was long first ; for all those plagues came upon him in one year ; and it was in the sixteenth year of his reign , saith eusebius from manetho the aegyptian . among the jewish kings , the worst should be wicked ahab ; for of him the scripture saith , there was none like him , that had sold himself to work wickedness ; and yet ahab reigned above two and twenty years , before the dogs had the licking of his blood. in the new testament , the worst great men we read of were , that herod that would have killed christ in his infancy , and pilate by whom he was crucified : but of them , herod came to his end ( which indeed was very horrible , as josephus describes it ) not till the four and thirtieth year of his reign . and pilate the roman governor , whom the same josephus describes as a man made up of avarice and cruelty , yet continued in his government , and seem'd to enjoy himself in those sins , for some years after the crucifying of our saviour . this forbearance of persons , even the worst that ever liv'd , is not so strange , or would be less strange to us , if we consider'd , that men have another life ; and if they should go quite unpunisht here , as many do all their lives , god knows where to find them at last : and then he can and will do them justice ; they shall pay both principal and interest together , in their sufferings in the future life . but for nations , they have no other life but this : their sins must be punisht here , or not at all . and therefore it may seem a little strange that they should have any forbearance : and yet so it is , that god is not in haste even with them. for examples , i might , if i had time , name all the nations that are recorded in history . but that doth not need , since we have one nation which god hath set up for an example to all the rest . the jewish nation . in that one , i might shew many instances of this doctrine : but these three are more remarkable than the rest . first , when god had sworn in the wilderness , that he would cut off all the men of that generation , yet he did it not presently : he gave them a time of forty years , and so long many of them lived before they came to perish in the wilderness . afterwards , when they were threatned with the babylonian captivity , which was in the beginning of jeremiah's prophecy , in the thirteenth year of king josias ; yet after that , it was forty years before they were carried into captivity . lastly , when john baptist preached repentance , and warned them to fly from the wrath to come , and told them , now the ax is laid to the root of the tree , now they were to stand or fall by their dealing with christ at his coming . if they should reject him , it was determined that god would destroy their church , and scatter their nation . they did commit that great sin , and yet it was again forty years before the sentence was put in execution . these are sufficient proofs to shew that god is not in haste to execute his judgment upon nations . but to go higher yet , we see the same in his proceedings against the world of mankind . we see in the old world before the flood , when all flesh had corrupted its way , when they were fully ripe for destruction ; yet then the destruction came not till after an hundred and twenty years warning , which ( being to all mankind ) was as much as those three warnings of the jews put together . so slow is god to execute judgment upon sinners , especially such judgments as are to end in their utter destruction . so that now the matter of fact being clear , we are to find a reason for it : and here are two reasons in my text ; here is the scoffers reason , that says it is slackness in god ; here is the apostles reason , that says no , 't is indeed his patience and long-suffering . the first is the scoffers reason , that which some would perswade themselves to believe ; they say judgment is delayed , because god is slack in punishing of sinners ; this the apostle denies , as a reason most unworthy of god. for , that is properly slackness , when offenders are not punish'd so much , or not so soon , as would be necessary for the ends of government . what are those ? to keep up order , and purity , and peace , by the exemplary punishing of transgressors . these are the great ends for which judgment is design'd ; and to make delay of judgment , so as to defeat these ends , or any of them , this is truly a slackness in government . now such a slackness as this cannot be thought to be in god. for this slackness must proceed from some defect or other ; either want of knowledg , or of will , or of power to do justice . such defects as these we may suppose to be in man. but every one of these is either a fault , or an imperfection ; and that is enough to remove them from god , there can be no fault nor no imperfection in him . how then shall we solve the difficulty that appears to us in the text ? for that god doth things as if he were slack , 't is plain , and the apostle confesseth it : and yet the lord is not slack , saith the apostle : how then ? he is long-suffering : i , that 's a reason worthy of god ; we should have guess'd at it if he had not told us , for it is most agreeable to the nature of god. he is such a great and generous being , as having all things in his power , can do his own work when he pleases : and he knoweth it , and therefore he will take his own time to do judgment . he will do things never the sooner , nor later , whatever we think of it , for any provocation whatsoever . nay , properly speaking , to provoke him is impossible , he is so infinitely above us . he is not capable of anger or passion ; nor can he fear that any offender should escape the eye of his knowledge , or the arm of his justice . he can find us , and he can reach us , where ever we are . so that he hath nothing to hasten him , nothing to limit or prescribe him . he may take his own time to do justice , and he will do it , when it seems best to his infinite wisdom : but that must be , when it is best to set forth the glory of his justice , or of his mercy . his justice and his mercy , both these are chiefly set forth by his great forbearance and long-suffering . first , the glory of his justiee is set forth by this way of proceeding . the justice of god is the same in all acts of his government . but it especially appears in his judgments , that are visibly executed : and in them it is most highly exalted by his long-suffering . when god hath long forborn to punish a sinner , notwithstanding the greatness and notoriousness of his sins ; and at last ( as it will happen at some time or other ) god takes him in hand , and deals with him as he deserves ; the long-suffering of god , before he comes to this , is that which most redounds to his glory . it lets all men see , that there was a just cause of punishment : that there was so continued a cause , that the offender would not be treated otherwise : that he was not only set upon evil , but that he could not be brought to any good : that he was past all enduring ; not only wicked , but incorrigible . it will at last make even the offender himself , either confess his fault , or say nothing ; for he cannot excuse it , he cannot but acknowledge the righteous judgment of god. this is the advantage that any court of judicature has by not giving sentence in a cause till the cause is ripe for it . before that , being judg'd as it were while it was green , it would not do so well , the justice of it would not appear : many things would have been kept from coming out , by precipitate judging . but when things are thoroughly examin'd , and when the matter is all out , when the bottom of every thing appears , then the sentence comes in its season ; then every one says , now it is as it should be . even the offender himself agrees to it : he stands convict , not only to the court , but to himself . then the judge hath an universal confession of his justice : when none can say , he was not just in judging so , nay , when 't is evident , he had been unjust in judging otherwise . this a wise heathen writer , plutarch , observes , is an effect of the long-suffering of god. dion ( saith he ) that basely killed his friend , if for that he had been cut off presently , would not have died so well , as he did a long while after : when another friend kill'd him with the same dagger , then every one said , there is a god that avenges such things , adonibezek , jud. 1. 7. having treated so many of the petty princes about him with that barbarous insolence , of cutting off their thumbs and great toes ; at last , when his own thumbs and toes came to be cut off in like manner , then he could not but acknowledg gods justice : as i have done , ( saith he ) so god hath requited me . it were easie to abound in such examples of persons , that have been by the patience and long-suffering of god ( to use the apostles word ) fitted for destruction ; and then it hath justly come upon them , to the great satisfaction of all men , and to the greater glory of god. but of persons , whoever reads history will meet with enough of these instances ; and whoever takes notice , will daily add to them by his own observation . perhaps every one may not observe it in national judgments , ( i mean final judgments ) for they happen not in every age : and therefore i shall name some few of the most remarkable of them , and deliver you the sense of men that were then living , to shew you what they thought that suffer'd under those judgments of god. they confest upon abundant conviction , the great patience and long-suffering of god , before he brought things to the extremity : and they confess'd the wickedness of their nations , that run on in known sins , till they even forc't god to these extremities . these things being considered together , have tended much to the magnifying of his glory ; and it has been acknowledged by them that writ whole books to this purpose . so namely for the jews ; in their first captivity , it was seen and confest by jeremy in his lamentations : in their second captivity , by josephus , in his last book of the jewish wars . for the roman empire , which consisted of many provinces , when all those were given up to the barbarous nations , the just judgment of god in it was acknowledged , by jerom , by austin , by salvian , and divers others , in those books which they wrote of god's judgments on their several nations . here particularly in this island , when the britains were over-run with the saxons , gildas gives god the glory of it , in his book of the ruin of britain . likewise when those saxons were over-run by the danes , the crying sins , that even forc't that vengeance from god , were acknowledged and bewail'd by lupus in his book of saxon homilies . and lastly ( to name no more ) when constantinople was taken by the turks , both franzes , and others that bewail'd the calamity , ascrib'd it to the desperate folly of their people , who , between a sordid and a seditious humour , refus'd to serve their prince either with their purses or in their persons . he had but a few hired men to fight for him and his kingdom . yet they were more than he was able to pay . so that having quite exhausted himself , having coin'd out his altar-plate , and at last gone from house to house to beg money , when his soldiers mutinied for want of it ; he was feign to venture his own person against the enemy . and so when he fell , ( as he did ) under the feet of the enemy , when over his body the turks entred the city , they were amazed at the incredible wealth they found in it ; they had such a spoil , that it grew a proverb among them , if any grew rich on a sudden , they us'd to say , he had been at the sacking of constantinople . it was so sottish a thing , for a people to lose themselves for want of money , when their wealth was at the highest ; as if they feared not to perish , but to be a less prey to their enemy : it was such an infatuation from god , that they that knew how vile a people they were , could not but applaud the divine justice in it ; they could not but acknowledge , it was the just reward of their sins . in all the cases before us , if these nations had perished sooner , or otherwise , god had lost so much of the glory of his justice . it had not been so illustrated , as it was by his great patience and long-suffering . but secondly , beside the glory of his justice , god shews forth his mercy in it likewise . there is some kind of mercy in it whenever he punishes : in his judgment he remembers mercy ( saith the prophet . ) 't is a riddle to us now , but hereafter we shall see it : god never cuts off a sinner betimes , but even in that judgment there is mercy , though we see it not in this world. but god shews forth his mercy in this world in long-suffering , in forbearing of sinners . he shews his mercy all the while he forbeareth . when it is so long before he strikes , he shews how unwilling he is to strike at all . he would not do it if men would take any warning . he looks upon us as his own creatures , creatures that cannot live without him , no not one minute of our lives . good god! do we say he forbears us ? he not only lets us live , but he keeps us , he maintains us all the while in our being . all the while he waits to be friends with us , he would not have us dye in his displeasure : every bit that we eat , every wink that we sleep , every thing we take to do us good , all are witnesses on his side ; all do as it were attest to the sincerity of his protestations , as i live ( saith the lord ) i will not the death of a sinner , why will you dye ? yet turn your selves and live . without turning from sin there is no living to god : we must dye , that is , we must perish : salvation it self cannot save us . the law saith with great strictness , the soul that sinneth it shall dye . the gospel hath but one way to relieve him , that is by repentance unto life . it is that which christ came for , to call sinners to repentance : it was that which he preached , repent ye and believe the gospel : it was that for which he died , that god might forgive us upon our repentance . this being therefore so indispensably necessary , the apostle thought fit to express it in my text , as the condition on which we are to be saved , and no otherwise . this is it which i am next to shew , as to our repentance , in what manner we are helpt and assisted by the long-suffering of god. 't is first the most likely way to bring men to repentance . secondly , in fact , it is that which oftentimes has prevail'd . thirdly 't is the last the only way it can be done : when this is gone , all is gone ; there is no hope for them that have out-sinned the patience and long-suffering of god. first , it is a rational way , the most likely to bring us to repentance ; because it giveth us divers things which are necessary for it ; that is , first time to repent , and secondly strong motives to it , and thirdly warnings to mind us of it . these are things which we could not have otherwise . first , the long-suffering of god gives us time to repent : and time is needful to be had for any business , especially for a business of moment or difficulty , such as this is , to reclaim us from our sins . it requires much time to do it well and effectually . and therefore not knowing how much there is to come of our life , we were best resolve upon it , and set about it immediately ; but yet , when that is done , we are but entred into a state of repentance . repentance is the change of our mind and course of life , in every thing that is amiss , from sin to the obedience of god. it will require time to know our own ways , to know what god would have us do , and how to do it . it will therefore require cool blood and calm thoughts : perhaps that is more then heat of youth will afford . it is a business that is to be done in retirement : and it is not presently that one can bring himself to it , that one can disentangle himself from his companions in sin. it is a business that requires much attention and practice , to break himself of those habits that have got the power over him . it requires so much the longer time to break our selves of them , by how much the longer we have continued in the custom of our sins . if god should not afford us all the time that is necessary , it were but justice , upon them that would not afford time for god. but when he doth give us time , 't is his infinite mercy : and however we employ it , we owe this to the long-suffering of god. but secondly , having time to repent , that we may employ our time aright , this patience of god gives us great motives to repentance : especially this , it makes us see that god is willing to save us ; he is yet willing , after so many and so great provocations . what can work upon us , if we are not wrought upon by this ? a just god , and most justly provokt , that might have cast us off long since , as we did him : ( and if he had cast us off , who had lost by it ? alas ! what can we add to him ? ) that he should wait , as it were , for leave to shew us mercy ; while we , either easily forget , or wilfully kick against him : yet that still he calls , and waits for us , giveth us time and opportunity to repent : the very sense of his goodness , and the shame of our ingratitude for it ; these thoughts chased together will work much upon any ingenuous soul. but then farther , the hope that his long-suffering giveth us , that god hath not yet done with us ; he hath not quite cast us off ; and the fear what may happen , if he should , as well he may , if we hold out longer : then , how ill it would go with us , how much the worse for his long-suffering hitherto . these , and sundry thoughts more that his long-suffering yields us , are the likeliest motives to repentance . and thirdly , it giveth us warning besides , in sundry things that happen in the mean while : warnings on the one hand , by the conversion of others ; warning on the other hand , by gods judgments on the impenitent ; warning by divers things that happen to our selves , and in our families . all these are calls to us from god , who speaks , not only by his word , but by his providence : it is as it were a voice from heaven that speaketh to us , why will you die ? turn you , yet , turn you and live . but we are especially to observe those national warnings that happen before his wrath breaks out to extremity . persons may be taken away without any warning : and if there seem to be any hardship in that , god may ( and no doubt will ) consider them for it in the future life . but for nations , that have no future life , i dare say that none were ever cut off without warning : they have had calls enough to bid them take heed , before they run themselves into destruction . such warnings were those to the jews , first , by the death of good josiah , and then jeconiah's captivity , before the general captivity of king zedekiah and all his people . such were those they had again , in the taking of jerusalem , first by pompey , then by sosius , before it was destroyed by vespasian . so the britains in this island had been over-run once or twice , and recovered , before they were driven out of their country . so the saxons being invaded by the danes , had driven them out once or twice , and had an interval of peace , before they came to be a conquered people . so in that instance of constantinople , that people were sufficiently warned by two invasions that the turks made upon them , before that which ended in their captivity . on these , and all other instances of this kind , i have only this to observe , ( it is in some of those writers before mentioned ) that when their nations saw themselves gone , when they were gone past recovery , when they saw things come to extremity , when they found themselves as it were in the talons of their enemies : then they could reflect upon what pass't before ; then they knew that heretofore they had warnings ; they remembred they had such and such warnings from god : then they called themselves mad men , that would not take warning when it was given them . o that god would trust them once more ! with their country , and with their estate , and their liberty ! then , how wise , and how good they would be ! but that was never to be tried : it is too late , when things are gone past all remedy . the only way to escape that , is by timely repentance . if ever any warning doth good , it is by bringing us to timely repentance : and whoever are preserved by that means , they know to whom to ascribe it , it proceeds from the long-suffering of god. secondly , as it is the likeliest way to reclaim us , so it is the way that has often obtein'd . many , that have had time , and motives , and warnings , ( as i shewed you we have by the long-suffering of god ) have been wrought upon by them , and have repented of their sins , and so escap't the judgment to come . this , being matter of fact , is to be proved only by instances : and of them it were easie to shew a great number , i shall chuse only two or three out of scripture . the first shall be that of manasses king of judah , whose horrible sins defil'd jerusalem from one end to the other : and they are said to be his sins for which god past that sentence upon that people . in that sinful course he had spent thirty years of his long reign , ( which was in all fifty five years . ) had god cut him off sooner , ( as justly he might ) then he had undoubredly perisht in his sins . but it was the long-suffering of god that spared him . he was only chastised with a short hard captivity , he took warning from that , he changed his course , he turn'd a great penitent : the people did the like by his authority and example , which made some amends for the hurt he had formerly given them : he that brought that sentence upon them by his sins , obtein'd a reprieve for them by his repentance . another , and that indeed an unusual instance , we have in nebuchadnezzar king of babel . being a heathen , from him nothing could be expected , but the duties of natural religion . but he was so far from living up to that , that he walkt by no rule but his lust , for thirty six years of his reign . when after he had so long led the life of a beast , god made him like one in all things but his shape , for an extraordinary instance of his justice ; then , being sufficiently humbled , he was restored to his former way of living , and to the glory of his kingdom ; then excellent majesty was added to him ; then he was freed from all bestiality , he became an excellent man , a great prophet , as the heathen berosus tells us : for which wonderful change , ( as himself saith ) i prais'd , and extoll'd , and honour'd the great king of heaven . but one example more , that is of st. paul , who declares it of himself , i. tim. i. 13. i was a reviler of christ , a persecutor of the christian religion , and insolently spiteful against it . how long he was so , he doth not tell us : but it seems not to have been a very short time , by that which follows , that he ascribes his conversion to the long-suffering of god. and he did hope his case would not be singular . he hoped many would follow his example . he declared god had call'd him for that purpose , v. 16. where having said , thus and thus i was formerly ; he adds , nevertheless i obtained mercy , that in me first jesus christ might shew forth all long-suffering , for a pattern to all them that shall hereafter believe on him to life everlasting . these examples may suffice . i could name many more , to shew how well god's long-suffering is design'd , by the good it hath actually done , in reclaiming many sinners , who without it must have perisht in their sins . i shall add but one thing more , that it is the last means that god uses to bring us to repentance . when he hath first given time and opportunity for it ; when he hath withal given sufficient motives , and means ; when he hath warned us whither we are going ; when he hath done as much for us , as hath brought others to repentance ; then , after that , his long-suffering is only to give us time to think deliberately upon it . what one did not consider as it came , he may possibly reflect upon afterwards : either of his own proper instinct , or by the admonition of others , or upon some occasion that may rise ; especially in sickness , or some other affliction , ( if god be so gracious to send it upon him ) and this is the utmost that god intends by it . when a foot , or a finger , or any such part , hath a gangren upon it ; if the last means that can be us'd , work no cure , then the limb must go off . but first it is to be numm'd , and so to be prepared for the operation . that is all the remaining use of god's patience to an incorrigible sinner . it blinds and hardens him more and more , and so prepares him for everlasting damnation . that is terrible indeed , and that comes on every moment . damnation slumbers not , ( saith the apostle ) though they do . they do not think whither they are going , but they go never the slower for that . or if they should , their judgment would be the more furious when it comes . long-slighted patience turns into fury : and the longer it has been abused , the greater the fury : and especially the patience of god : it is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of an incensed god ; for our god , provok't to extremity , is a consuming fire . having said so much in the explication of my text , i dare not be so long in applying it as i would : and yet something must be said with respect to the business of the day ; to humble our selves before god , for our sins , and for the sins of our nation . the fountain of all our national sins is the low esteem that we commonly have of our religion . this indeed is a thing to be complain'd of generally among us : and it is much the worse , for this aggravation , that it is joyn'd with great unthankfulness to god. god hath dealt most bountifully with us , above other nations , in many respects ; but most of all in that which is the crown of all his blessings and mercies . we have the best religion in the world ; the christian religion ( i know what i say ) in the greatest perfection and purity , that ever was in any national church . and yet we are so far short of other christians in the value they have for their religion , we so much undervalue ours , that for this , not only other christians , but even heathens shall rise up in judgment against us . it shews we have low apprehensions of god. we neither love him , nor fear him , as we ought to do . if we did , how were it possible that so many among us should have so little or no regard to those persons or things that are dedicated to god , and that are hallowed to his name ? 't is too visible , that this is the disease of our church ; the mother-disease from which all her other ailings proceed . from hence it proceeds , that some , seeing more reverence for god , and for the things of religion , in popery , have been drawn off to that gross corruption of the christian religion . and in this they have been wonderfully confirmed , by seeing others take offence at some things , which were certainly in the primitive church , and which must be in all churches that will keep up order and decency . some of these , by a fatal mistake , calling our church-government , and all our forms and ceremonies , popery ; and hunting out for a purer way of worship , ( as they call it ; ) have run out first into schism , and from thence not a few into damnable heresies : and branding every thing that they dislike , with the name of popery and antichristianism , they have not only divided and weakned our church , but they have added wonderfully to the strength and credit of popery . from these sects and divisions have proceeded , in the first place , disobedience and rebellion against the civil government . i speak plainly of that rebellion that robb'd us of the best christian king that ever was . from thence we are to date the beginning of these following evils ; from thence the weakning and destruction of church-discipline ; from thence the neglect of catechism and confirmation ; from thence a contempt or low esteem of the sacraments of christ's own institution ; from thence the general neglect of family-duties , especially in the education of children and young people ; from thence a general corruption of manners into loosness and licentiousness and debauchery . and in them that kept up a sense of religion , much of it has run out into disputes , which led people to hate one another ; and occasion'd many among us , seeing so many things disputed in religion , to think that all religion is disputable ; and so by degrees they were drawn into irreligion and atheism . whoever will be pleased to look fifty years back , and give himself the trouble to think , what many of us have seen , and all others may inform themselves ; he cannot but know , that this which you have heard , hath been the true course and progress of our national sin. he will see , for a great part of that time , such a body of a nation as the prophet esay describes , i. 6. from the sole of the foot to the head without any soundness in it . to any one that feared god , it was a sad prospect from thence , to the four and twentieth verse of that chapter ; where god declares against his own people , ah! i will ease me of my adversaries , i will avenge me of mine enemies . yet he did not execute that sentence presently , but within an age or two his wrath came upon them to the uttermost . now who could tell all this while , but god might have pronounced the like sentence against us , and that it might have been executed in like manner ? god knows what it may come to in time . but hitherto it has been forborn , i know not why . no man can tell why it hath been forborn all this while . but god tells us in my text , and elsewhere , that it is upon the account of his long-suffering . god hath been indeed , he hath shewn himself , long-suffering to us-ward . and why is that ? the apostle tells us , because he would have no man perish , but that all should come to him by repentance . now to shew that god would have us come to repentance ; that as he hath made us a reform d church , so he would have us a reform'd people , a pattern to all other nations for his glory ; that this is god's design by his patience hitherto , is as plain in the course of his providence , as if he had declar'd it to us by a voice from heaven . what can be plainer than this , that he hath punisht us as a people whom he had no mind to destroy ? it is plainer yet , by the deliverances he hath given us : having not only saved us from the brink of destruction , but put it withal in our power to be the happiest people under heaven . in all the history i have read , i dare challenge any man to shew where one nation hath ever had two such deliverances , as have hapned to ours , in one age. first , for our deliverance at the king's restauration ; what a turn it was to this nation ? out of a most distracted condition ( in which we were ready to cut one anothers throats ) within a few months to be a most flourishing kingdom ? how truly was it applied to that change , what the psalmist says , ps. cxxvi . 1. when the lord turned the captivity of sion , then were we like unto them that dream ? we did not know whether we were awake or asleep . we could scarce believe what we saw at the king's restauration . but for the use of that singular blessing ; as to that , we were truly like them that dream : for no people that had been awake , would have lost such an opportunity as that was , to have made themselves happy to all generations . but alas ! instead of that , instead of growing wiser and better , we grew worse with prosperity . the people grew drunk and dissolute upon it . the court was that and worse , they were intoxicated with popery : in favour to which , it was found necessary to promote atheism and infidelity among the nobility and gentry ; and for them that had a sense of religion , to divide them , and to exasperate them one against another . by these and the like means , we not only lost the fruit of that former deliverance , but we were brought into a danger as great , nay , greater than the former . for then , whatever we suffered , or feared , yet still we were not out of hope . but there was no hope , if popery had once prevail'd ; there had been no more hope left for us , than for men in the inquisition . and how near was that danger of popery ? how impossible was it for us to escape ? nothing could have saved us from it , but miracle . it was a miracle of providence that delivered us from it . i shall not repeat what i have lately said here on that subject : but this i shall say , which shews god's design in it . it is a providence , that hath not only brought us in hope , but hath put us in actual possession , and hath given us security for the continuance , as well of our liberties as of our religion . god hath put it again in our power by this deliverance to be as happy a people as any is under heaven . now he trys us a second time , whether we will walk worthy of his mercy and goodness . he sheweth us , the end of his long-suffering is that we may not perish . but if we will , there is no remedy . now who would think , that god should put this to us , twice , as you see he hath done , in one generation ? it is not to be hoped that he will deal thus with us a third time . and now , if you will take him at his word , ( so i call it , for his providence is a call to you from heaven ; 't is as if he had said , why will you die ? turn ye now and live . ) to day , if ye will hear his voice , oh harden not your hearts . to day , do what you can , at this present . you can now take a firm resolution , to comply with this providence of god ; to do your part , as he hath done his , to make this a holy and a happy nation : first holy , and then happy ; it can be no otherwise . to effect that , first begin with your selves : and then engage others , as far as you can , to break off that course and progress of sin that you have heard . to begin where i ended . first , to take god's part against all irreligion and atheism ; against them that question his being , or his word , or his government . he is the enemy of god that doth this : he is not his friend that can endure it to be done . next , to purge the nation of all immorality : and especially , of those scandalous sins of cursing , and swearing , and profaning the lord's day , of drunkenness , and whoredom , and all the like abominations . these things defile the land : they must be purged forth ; or else god will not dwell in it , he will not own us for his people . now herein , blessed be god that hath put it in his majesty's heart to begin that work , which i trust he will perfect in due time . he hath given that order , which , if it be followed , will make a reformation among us , unless we are much wanting to our selves . they are neither good christians , nor good subjects , that will not follow so good and so great an example . then , it will be also necessary for us , to lay all uncharitable and unpeaceable disputes and animosities among christians . however they may differ from one another in opinion , yet let them joyn together so far as they are agreed : in things that are manifestly for the glory of god , and the common good of mankind ; and especially of that society wherein they live . in such things we should first learn to unite , and then we may hope that god in his good time may compose all our other divisions . particularly for them that are in the communion of our church , let them shew that they are not only of our party , but of our religion . otherwise they may help to save the church , but for all that they will perish themselves . if they are serious in religion , they will shew it by their attendance on god's worship and sacraments . they will endeavour to be as constant and devout , as they would be if they saw him there , who , we know , is present with us at those meetings . they will shew it likewise by observing their duties to men for god's sake . first in loyalty to their majesties , with all that concernment that we owe them , as the instruments of our deliverance : then in obedience to laws , which we cannot but value the more , as being sensible of our late danger of an arbitrary government . they will shew it likewise , in being good christians , as well as good subjects : and that in all points that belong to men of their rank and condition ; in good government of their families , in good education of their children , in good examples to all their neighbours ; in love to their brethren , in charity to all men , in universal purity of life . oh! if we could all attain to this ! if any number of us could do it ! i will not say the whole nation , but if a considerable part of it ! what favours might we not hope , the whole nation would have for their sakes ? for the sake of ten righteous persons , we know , god would have spared such a people as sodom . a kingdom so much greater than sodom , as ours is , must require a proportionable number . a people so much more knowing as ours is , will require a yet much greater proportion . but yet , why may not god find so much a greater number among us ? i trust he hath done it , else he would not have spared us so long ; else we had long ere this , been as sodom , and made like to gomorrah . i trust god will still find such a number , and that he will spare the rest for their sakes . if there be any hope , it must be from them that serve him , as you do in this place . i beseech you go on to do it ; and for fear god should not still find his number , be careful to keep it up , for your own , and for your childrens sakes . hold fast the profession of your faith without wavering . get in what company you can into the number . exhort all others to join with you , in serving god. provoke one another ( in the apostle's sense , ) not to hatred and strife , but to love and good works . let there be no emulation but this , who shall be the best toward god , the most knowing and exemplary christians : and forsake not the publick assemblies , as some do , who i hope in time will be wiser ; but exhort one another , and so much the more , as you see the day approaching : for yet a little while , and he that shall come will come , and will not tarry ; and his reward is with him , to render to every man according to his works . finis . a sermon preached at the funeral of the right reverend father in god john late lord bishop of chester, at the guildhal chappel london, on thursday the 12 of december, 1672 by william lloyd ... lloyd, william, 1627-1717. 1672 approx. 43 kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from 19 1-bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : 2005-03 (eebo-tcp phase 1). a48839 wing l2703 estc r20363 12402666 ocm 12402666 61307 this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons 0 1.0 universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase 1, no. a48839) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set 61307) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, 1641-1700 ; 767:28) a sermon preached at the funeral of the right reverend father in god john late lord bishop of chester, at the guildhal chappel london, on thursday the 12 of december, 1672 by william lloyd ... lloyd, william, 1627-1717. 36 p. printed by a.c. for henry brome ..., london : 1672. reproduction of original in huntington library. created by converting tcp files to tei p5 using tcp2tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between 1473 and 1700 available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the 25,363 texts created during phase 1 of the project have been released into the public domain as of 1 january 2015. anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. 5% (or 5 pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of 100 instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level 4 of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p5, characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng wilkins, john, 1614-1672. bible. -n.t. -hebrews xiii, 7 -sermons. funeral sermons. sermons, english -17th century. 2003-11 tcp assigned for keying and markup 2003-12 apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images 2004-11 mona logarbo sampled and proofread 2004-11 mona logarbo text and markup reviewed and edited 2005-01 pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a sermon preached at the funeral of the right reverend father in god john late lord bishop of chester . at the guildhal chappel london , on thursday the 12 of december , 1672. by william lloyd d. d. dean of bangor , and one of his majesties chaplains in ordinary . london : printed by a. c. for henry brome , at the gun at the west-end of s. pauls . 1672. heb. 13. 7. remember them which have the rule over you , who have spoken to you the word of god ; whose faith follow , considering the end of their conversation . in handling this text of holy scripture , that we may mingle nothing of humane affections , that our passions may give no interruption to you in hearing , or to me in speaking ; i should desire to suppress them quite , if it were possible . and possible it is , where they are slightly raised , as upon common and ordinary occasions : but where they are grounded and strong , where they dare argue , and seem to have reason on their side , as there is too much in sight for ours ; there i think it is in vain to endeavour it : the only way in this case , is to give them some kind of vent , to discharge them in part , and to govern what remains of the affections . you will i hope the rather bear with my infirmity , that i cannot contain from deploring the loss , the irreparable loss that we suffer , i think all suffer , in the death of this eminent person . he was the man in whom his friends had experience of much good , and had hopes of much more ; not so much for his greatness or power , as abstracting from these , for what they found in himself , which was a great and manifold blessing to all that lived within his conversation . he was a father , a counsellor , a comforter , a helper , a sure friend : he was all they could wish in every relation , and by the course of nature , might have been for many years . but for our sins , ( though for his unspeakable advantage ) the great and wise god was not pleased to continue that blessing ; he took him out of this world , when for ought we could judge , there was most need of such men to live in it ; and when we had much reason to expect more good than ever by his living in it . oh the unsearchable ways and counsels of god! oh the blindness of humane hopes and expectaons ! while we please our selves with the good we have in hand , while we reach out for more , as if there would never be an end , within a few days all withers , all vanisheth to this : we have nothing left , but what it grieves us to see , we have nothing remains , but what we are willing to be rid of , a poor shell of earth , that we make haste to bury out of our sight . yes , of wise and good men , which is their priviledge above others , there remains after death , a memory , an example which they leave behind them , as a sacred depositum for us to keep and use until we see them again . are these things nothing in our sight ? they are above all price in the sight of god ; who , that they may be so to us , both telleth us the worth , and recommends them to our esteem , and requires the fruit of them in many places of scripture : but in none with more application to our present occasion , then in my text. i shall sufficiently justifie my choice of it , if i can but make it be understood : i shall shew the full import of it , in those duties which it contains : i shall endeavour to stir you up to practise them with respect to this present occasion . first , for the understanding of my text , we are to look for no help from what goes next before it , or after it : for the whole business of it is contained within its self . it lies in the heap among other directions , which without any certain connexion between them , were given by the writer of this epistle to the hebrews , that is , to those jews who were converted to be christians . for the time when it was written , we are certain of this , that it was while timothy lived ; for he is mentioned as living in the 24 verse of this chapter . and he being there said to have suffered imprisonment for the gospel , this brings us a little nearer to the knowledge of the time : for then it must be after both s. pauls epistles to timothy . in the last of those epistles , which was some years after the other , s. paul speaks much of his own imprisonment for the gospel : he warns timothy oft , that he must suffer for the gospel : he instructs him what to do when god shall call him to suffer . not a word of any thing that he had suffered already : nay , he counsels him as a young man , that had never been tried . he invites him to rome , which was the great place of tryal ; in which place , as it appears in the close of this chapter , timothy did suffer that imprisonment for the gospel , from which he was deliver'd , when this epistle was written . it appears , that after the epistle to timothy , how long after we know not , he did go to rome , as paul will'd him . how long he staid there we know not , ere he did suffer imprisonment . how long he was in prison , we know not , ere he was set at liberty . only we know , it was a considerable time , we have reason to think it might be some years ; it might be many years that this epistle was written after the second epistle to timothy . and if so , then it was written , not only as theodoret says , long after the death of james the brother of john : but account it how you will , this epistle was written , after the death of james the brother of our lord : which james being the first bishop of jerusalem , and the other james an apostle , that is , a bishop at large , and both these being put to death at jerusalem ; not to search into church history for those others of their order , who dyed before this time in other places ; nor to guesshow many others were dead , that are not recorded in church history : if we think of no more but these two eminent servants of christ , we cannot be to seek of the understanding of this text , nor of the application to our particular purpose . i say not , but it may have a more general extent . there is a memory due , not only to the apostles of christ , and to the bishops their successors ; but to all other good ministers of christ , yea to all other exemplary christians . but if the apostle had meant this only of bishops , i cannot guess that he would have it exprest otherwise , than he hath done in my text. to prove this , i must have recourse to the original , and not wholly depend upon our english translation . for that he meant this of bishops , it appears not sufficiently , and of them being dead , not at all , in our translation . and yet from the original , i see no reason to doubt , that our apostle in this text , meant no other but bishop , and those departed this life . for the order of bishops , it is described by those acts of ruling and teaching , in the words of our translation ; but it is much more expresly by the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the original . for the meaning of which word , to whom should we resort , but either to the greeks , in whose language ; or to the jews , for whose immediate use this was written ? among the greeks 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is a general word , it signifies rulers ecclesiastical or civil . in this verse they take it for ecclesiastical rulers : so chrysostom on my text ; and oecumenius , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the apostle speaks of bishops in this verse : if the jews would say so too , what could we have more ? they do say it , as much as we have reason to expect . in their traditional language they call one of our bishops 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which in effect is the word in my text. so then we have the consent both of greeks and of hebrews , that is , of them who had most reason to know the meaning of the word , that bishops are meant by the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in my text. that the apostle here speaks not of living , but of dead bishops : of them that had the rule before that time ; though 't is rendred , that have , in our translation ; it appeareth by other words in my text. remember them , says the apostle : what , those that are present ? they are not the objects of memory , but of sense . remember 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the good bishops you have had : 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , them that have spoken to you , that have spoken their last , and shall speak no more in this world : 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 considering , looking back , or looking up to 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the end of their conversation . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signifies the whole course of this life , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is the end or period of it , look back , says the apostle , to your bishops deceased , consider their end , or exit , or going out of this world . to confirm this , if any doubt , i shall desire him to compare this verse with the 17 of this chapter . in both verses the apostle speaks of the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , that is of bishops , as i have interpreted and proved . in the 17. he shews our duty to the living , obey them , says the apostle , and submit your selves , for they watch for your souls . in this verse he shews our duty to bishops deceased ; remember them , and follow their faith , considering the end of their conversation . i think more needs not be said , to shew the scope of my text , and how applicable it is to our present occasion . it being clear that the apostle speaks here of bishops , and of them being departed this life . i now proceed to the duties required at our hands ; 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 remember and imitate . first remember . 't is a natural desire that men have , to be remembred when they are dead . we do not find it is so in any other creature : they desire to live as long as they can ; but for ought we can judge , by any indication , they have no regard to what shall come after . the reason is plain , for their being determines with their life . but for man , among many other tokens of immortality , he hath by secret instinct , a natural desire , to be thought of , and spoken of in after-times . we see this , not only in them that are inflamed with the hope of a future life ; but even in those , that , for ought appears to us , know or think little of any more but the present . what else made the egyptian kings lay out their wealth on pyramids , and the like stupendious buildings ? what moved the old greeks and the romans , with so much care and expence to leave statues and other monuments , with inscriptions of their names ? what meant those in the unlettered nations , by the much harder shifts they have made to conveigh any thing of themselves to posterity ? i need not seek for instances of this in remote times and countries , when we see 't is so frequent in our age , and perhaps no where more than in this city ; for men of design , that think long beforehand , above all other things , to provide for this kind of immortality . some venture their lives , others wear out themselves , they do and suffer any thing , to get estates : not for themselves , that might be happier without them ; nor so much for their known heirs , whom they load with entails ; as for men whom they know not , but only hope they will be in after-times . for their inward thought is , that their houses shall continue for ever , and their dwelling place to all generations : they call their lands by their own names . this their way is their folly , and those that see it are such fools to take after them , says david , psal. 49. 11. but if this design take , it must be in spite of god , who hath declared it shall not do . he will thwart wicked men . they that provide not for the true immortality , shall lose their design in this shadow of it . either their name shall be forgotten ; god hath threatned he will cut it off , he will blot it out , their memory shall perish with them : or if it survive , it shall be to their shame , their name shall rot , prov. 10. 7. what they build for fame , shall be like absaloms pillar ; which remains to this day , but the passers by throw stones at it , in detestation of his memory : such is generally , though not always , the curse of god that pursues wicked men . whereas contrariwise it is the promise of god to the just , that they shall always be had in remembrance , psal. 112. 6. and that their memory shall be blessed as far as known , prov. 10. 7. promises which , as all other of temporal things , are to be understood with reservation to the divine oeconomy , to that wisdom of god , which orders all things in the government of the world . it becometh not the majestie of him that governs all things , to break his course , and to work miracles , upon every particular occasion . 't is enough that he generally provideth that the same thing may be done otherwise , and declares it to those by whom it ought to be done . if they do it not , if there be a faileur in them ; his promise is not void , his word is not broken , since it was given with that condition : which being not performed by them that were to have done it , he can make reparation to those that suffer by it ; yea he hath done it already in this , that he hath given them that which this typifies . and what if they fall short of the shadow , when they have the substance , in a better and true immortality ? the mean while we see what is required on our parts . as the servants of god , out of that store which he hath given us , we are to pay what he hath promised good men . 't is that which all naturally desire , but wicked men shall not attain , only to the just , god hath promised that we shall remember them , and he commands that we should do it , especially for good bishops departed this life . our remembrance of them doth not differ in kind , but in degree , from what we ow to the memory of others . 't is a duty we are to pay them above others , in our thoughts , in our affections , in our words , and in our actions and lives . first in our thoughts , 't is not a simple remembrance that god requires ; for that being an act of the sensitive soul , as i conceive , doth not directly fall under precept . for it is not in our power , to remember , or forget , either what , or when we please . but it is in our power , to do those acts , which conduce to the exciting , or to the helping of our memory . this is that which god requires at our hands ; that we should endeavour to turn our minds towards such objects , and contemplate in them , the gifts and graces of god : that as oft as we think of them , we should acknowledge that good which was in them , and which we have received by their means : that we should pay them that honorable esteem , which we ow to our spiritual parents and benefactors . if we think of them heartily in this manner , it will work something upon our affections . we cannot but be sensible of the want of such men , and therefore grieved for our loss , when they are taken from us ; as the asian bishops were at those words of s. paul , when he said , they should see his face no more . though god intend it for their gain , whom he takes to himself , and he takes them in that time , which suits best with their circumstances : yet , even then , we have cause to grieve for our selves , and for the church , who are deprived of the presence and use of such men . how much more , when for ought we know , they are taken away for our sins ? when for ought we know , it was because the age was not worthy of them ? for ought we know , 't is in order to some judgement of god , which will come the sooner when they are gone , when we have filled up the measure of our iniquities ? when elijah was taken away in a very evil age , elisha cryed out , o my father , my father , the chariots and horse-men of israel . what will become of israel now thou art gone ? we dare not think so highly of any one man. we have no such cause to despond of our nation . when it is bad , we are to do our parts to make it better , to pray that god would send more labourers into his harvest , that he would double his gifts and blessings on those that are left. and for those we have lost , we must resign them to god ; both acknowledging his bounty in giving them to us , and submitting to his will , in taking them to himself . so s. bernard on the death of his brother gerard , lord , says he , thou hast given , and thou hast taken away ; though we grieve that thou hast taken away , yet we cannot forget that thou didst give him . yea , we ow not only submission to god , but thankfulness too for their sakes , who are delivered by this means , from so great and such manifold evils , as continually hover about us in this life . from sickness , and pain , from labour , and danger , from sorrow , and fear , and care , and what not ? being delivered from sin , which is the cause , and from that flesh , which is the center of all this . they are past all evils else , that have overcome death : they leave sorrow to us , who call our selves the living : their life , the only true life , is immutable joy , eternal rest , peace , and felicity . which if we seriously believe , if we desire to be with them ; we cannot sorrow for our loss , without joy for their gain , and thanksgiving on their behalf , to that good god , who hath given them the victory through our lord iesus christ. but thus much we ow upon the death of every true christian , though of never so mean a rank and condition . we are to be thankful to god for his mercies , and to profess it , as we are taught in the offices of our church ; which have the same words of burial , for the meanest of our communion , as for those that are highest in their graces and gifts . but there is a remembrance in words , that is due to these , and not to the other ; namely the due praise of those their excellent graces and gifts ; which though they have not of themselves , but through the bounty and liberality of god , who is therefore to be chiefly respected and glorified , in all the praise that we give to his creatures : yet since he is pleased to do them this honour above others , and to make choice of them whom he so dignifies ; we are bound to allow it them , we are to follow gods choice , to give them praise whom he hath so qualified for it . only with this care , that we do it truly , not to flatter the dead , and profitably for the example and imitation of the living . we have so much reason to do this , that they who had only reason to guide them , the gentiles , upon the death of any eminent persons , had orations made publickly in their praise . the jews , without any particular law for it , had honour done to the memory of worthy persons at their funerals , 2 chron. 32. ult . the rites of it are partly described , 2 chron. 16. 14. they laid their dead in a bed full of the richest perfumes , which also were publickly burnt at the interment . to which i conceive the preacher alludes , eccles. 7. 1. where he says , a good name is better than precious oyntment , and the day of ones death , than the day of ones birth . when one cometh into the world , none knows how he may prove ; if he do well in it , he goes out with this publick testimony . after which the jews never mentioned such persons , without a blessing on their memory . but above all others , the primitive christians were very observant this way . they saw it was the will of their lord and master , that the good work which was done upon him by mary , should be kept in perpetual memory , and is therefore recorded in the gospel . they saw how the works of dorcas were shewn at her death , the coats and garments which she made for the poor . they saw what need there was of great incentives , in those days , when christianity was a most dangerous profession . it is of no small force , to make men love a religion , when they see it infuses excellent principles , that it excites so suitable practises , that it is proof against suffering and death . and the experience of that power it hath in some , provokes and animates others to the same . upon these and the like considerations , and perhaps with allusion to that text , where s. john is said to have seen the souls of the martyrs under the altar ; they had their memorias martyrum , their places of worship , where they placed the altars , over the bodies of their martyrs . what , with any intention to worship the martyrs ? it was so suggested by the adversaries , and as vehemently denied by the christians of those times . by those of smyrna , in the undoubted acts of polycarpus : we cannot ( say they ) worship any other than christ ; we love the martyrs as being followers of christ , we celebrate the days of their passions with ioy , we do it both in remembrance of those champions of god , and to train up and prepare others for the like conflicts . besides this , which was peculiar to the martyrs , they had a lower degree of remembrance , for bishops , and confessors , and all other eminent persons departed this life : whom they not only praised in orations at their funerals , but writ their names in their diptychs , or two-leaved records , which contained in one page all the names of the living ; in the other , the dead that were of note in the church . all these were recited in the communion service , where , as the living for themselves ; so far the dead , came their friends , and gave oblations and alms which , before they were distributed among the poor , were first offered up to god in a prayer , like that which we use for the church militant here on earth . these doles were their only sacrifices for the dead : only alms to the poor , with which sacrifices god is well pleased . and their prayers were not for any deliverance from pains ; unless the patriarchs , and prophets , and the apostles , and virgin mother of christ , were in the same pains too , and needed the same deliverance . for they were all mentioned alike , and together , as it is to be seen in the ancientest liturgies . among all these innocent offices and rites of the primitive christians , was there any thing of prayer for souls in purgatory ? was there any thing of prayer to saints departed this life ? was there any foundation for those superstitious observances , of adoring their relics , of prostration to their images , of pilgrimage to their shrines , of making vows , of saying masses , of offering to them , and the like ? the papists say there was , they plead the practice of the church for it , they wrest places of scripture to their purpose . nay the rhemists and others , alledge this very text , without which i should not have mention'd them at this time . but as the learnedst men among themselves have been so just not to charge this upon my text , and some of them confess they have no ground for these things in any one text of canonical scripture : so they would do us but right to acknowledge , that none of these things was practis'd for some hundreds of years after christianity came into the world . in those primitive times all their offices for the dead , were , either to give testimony of that faith in which they died , and that death had not dissolv'd their communion with the living : or they were to bless god for their holy life , and happy death : or to pray to him , not for their deliverance from purgatory , of which there was no faith in those times ; but for the increase of that good which they believ'd them to be possest of already , or for the atteinment of that farther good which they thought they were sure of , namely , for their speedy and happy resurrection , for their perfect discharge at the day of judgement , for the consummation of their bliss with their own in the kingdom of glory . not to say how the fathers differ among themselves in these particulars ; or how many of these particulars are omitted in the roman church as well as ours ; it is enough that here is nothing makes for them , but much against those their errors and corruptions . all that is agreed on all hands , or that we find in the practise of the first ages , being sufficiently contein'd in those offices of our church ; in the prayer for the church militant , in the collect on all-saints day , and in the office for the burial of the dead ; where we pray , that it would please god of his gracious goodness , shortly to accomplish the number of his elect , and to hasten his kingdom , that we , with all those that are departed in the true faith of his holy name , may have our perfect consummation and bliss , both in body and soul , in his everlasting glory . lastly , remembrance in action is the other duty enjoyn'd in my text , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , imitate their faith , that is , their christian profession and practise , their whole life and conversation , according to their own belief of that word which they have spoken . the reason of this duty is plain : for it is our business in this world to recover the image of god in which he created us ; to be like him here in righteousness and holiness , that we may be like him hereafter in glory and happiness . to this end , god has given us those lineaments of himself , which are written sufficiently in our nature , but more fully and distinctly in scripture . in which scripture , he so oft and so vehemently requires us , be ye holy , as i am holy ; be ye iust , as i am iust ; be ye merciful , as i am merciful ; be ye pure , as i am pure ; be ye perfect , as your heavenly father is perfect . this good word of god , which was given by the prophets and apostles , is still inculcated on us by them that speak to us the word of god. which office being primarily of bishops , as appears in my text , they are first and above all others to conform themselves to it , to shew others how possible and how practicable it is . our apostle suppos'd this in those primitive bishops in my text. god requires it of all that succeed them in the church . so of timothy , though he were young in age , yet being in that place , be thou an example to believers in word , in conversation , in spirit , in faith , in truth , 1 tim. 4 12. and in the last verse , take heed to thy self , and to thy doctrine : do this constantly and continually , and so thou shalt save both thy self and them that hear thee . whether they do this or no , they are our teachers and rulers ; therefore in the 17 verse of this chapter , while they live , we must obey their word , and submit to their government . when they are dead , both for what they are , and were , we may do well to say no ill of them ; and since we can say no good , e'en forget them , and leave them to god. but if they are such as they ought , which the apostle supposes in my text , if they live as men that believe themselves what they say : 't is our duty , not only to submit , and obey them , while they live ; but also to remember them when they are dead : remember them , in our thoughts , with that honour they deserve ; in our affections , with a due sense of our loss , and their gain : remember them in words , with the just praise of their actions and lives : in our prayers to god , with due thankfulness for their graces and gifts in this life , and for the glory they receive after death : lastly , remember to follow them in that holy way , which leads to so happy an end : in our apostles words , follow their faith , considering the event , the blessed end of their good conversation . what my text says in general of bishops deceased , 't is most easie to apply . i know it hath been done all this while , by them that knew the virtuous and great mind , that lately dwelt in this body . they know the truth of all i shall say , and much more that might be said in his just commendation . but the little i can bring within the time i have left , being said from many years experience , will at least stir up those that knew him not , to enquire ; and if they find these things true , they know their duty of remembrance and imitation . i shall not be minute , in drawing all i say under these heads : for i speak to them that can distinguish and sort things , as they belong to the one , or to the other . to begin with the natural endowments of his mind ; i cannot think of him without just reflection upon that paradox , of the equality of souls . he was surely a great instance to the contrary , having that largeness of soul in every respect , which was much above the rate of ordinary men . he had an understanding , that extended to all parts of useful learning and knowledge ; a will always disposed to great , and publick , and generous things . he had a natural aversion from all idle speculations , and from the eager pursuit of small and frivolous designs . in great matters , he judged so well , that he was not usually surprized with events . he pursued his intentions , with such equalness of mind , that he was never carried beyond the calmness of his natural temper , except through his zeal for publick good , or where his friend was concerned . what he was in his studies , i have reason to know , that have often been tired with studying with him . he was indefatigable , and would have worn himself out , if he had not been relieved with multiplicity of business . however he impaired by it , a body which seemed to have been built for a long age , and contracted those infirmities , that hastned his death . the effect of his studies , in his preaching , and writings , are sufficiently known , and would have been much more , if god had given him time. as for his preaching , it was sometimes famous near this place ; though he sought rather the profit , than the praise of his hearers . he spoke solid truth , with as little shew of art as was possible . he exprest all things in their true and natural colours ; with that aptness and plainness of speech , that grave natural way of elocution , that shewed he had no design upon his hearers . his plainness was best for the instruction of the simple ; and for the better sort , who were in truth an intelligent auditory , it was enough that they might see he had no mind to deceive them . he applied himself rather to their understanding , than affections . he saw so much of the beauty of goodness himself ; that he thought the bare shewing of it was enough , to make all wise men , as it did him , to be in love with it . in his writings he was judicious and plain , like one that valued not the circumstances , so much as the substance . and he shewed it in whatsoever argument he undertook ; sometimes beating out new untravel'd ways , sometimes repairing those that had been beaten already : no subject he handled , but i dare say is the better for him ; and will be the easier for them that come after him . if in these he went sometimes beside his profession , it was in following the design of it , to make men wiser and better , which i think is the business of universal knowledge . and this he promoted with much zeal and sincerity , in hope of the great benefit that may accrew to mankind . it was his aim , as in all things , so especially in that which , i conceive , is much more censured than understood ; i mean , in the design of the royal society . he joyned himself to it with no other end , but to promote modern knowledge , without any contempt or lessening of those great men in former times . with due honor to whom , he thought it lawful for others to do that which , we have no reason to doubt , they themselves would have done if they were living . i would not seem to excuse that which dedeserveth commendation and encouragement ; or to commend other things , for want of subject in him . therefore leaving this theme in better hands , i proceed next to speak of his virtues and graces ; and these the rather , as being both to be remembred and followed . and in speaking of these , where shall i begin ? nay when shall i end , if i say all that may be spoken ? i think it not worth while to speak of those that are vulgar , though he had them also in no common degree : nor would i seem to make any virtue a propriety . but there are those which are not common to many , and were generally acknowledged to be in him ; though they appeared not so to some other men , as they did to those that intimately knew him . his prudence was great , i think it seldom failed in any thing to which he applied himself . and yet he wanted that part , which some hold to be essential ; he so wanted dissimulation , that he had rather too much openness of heart . it was sincerity indeed that was natural to him , he so abhorred a lye , that he was not at all for shew ; he could not put on any thing , that look'd like it . and presuming the same of other men , through excess of benignity , he would be sometimes deceived , in believing they were what they seem'd to be , and what he knew they ought to have been . his greatness of mind , was known to all that knew any thing of him . he neither eagerly sought any dignity , nor declined any capacity of doing good . he look'd down upon wealth , as much as others admire it : he knew the use of an estate , but did not cover it what he yearly received of the church , he bestowed in its service . as for his temporal estate , being secured against want , he sought no farther , he set up his rest ; i have heard him say often , i will be no richer , and i think he was as good as his word . as for revenge , how could it enter into the breast of him , that hated nothing , but that which makes us hateful to god ? i say not but he had a sense of personal injuries ; and especially of those that reflected upon his name , when they proceeded from those that had good names of their own ; what others said , he despised ; but by those he would often wish he had been better understood : that he was not , he bore as his misfortune ; he would not requite them with the like , but mention'd them with all due respect , and was always ready to oblige them , and to do them good. yet it was not so desirable , ( i say not to be his enemy , for he did not account them so , but ) to be at those terms with him , as to be his acquaintance or friend . they that were never so little familiar with him , could not but find , as well benefit as delight in his conversation . his discourse was commonly of useful things ; it never caused trouble or weariness to the hearer . yet he would venture to displease one for his good ; and indeed he was the man that ever i knew , for that most needful , and least practised point of friendship ; he would not spare to give seasonable reproof , and wholesome advice , when he saw occasion . i never knew any that would do it so freely , and that knew how to manage that freedom of speech so inoffensively . it was his way of friendship , not so much to oblige men , as to do them good . he did this not slightly and superficially , but like one that made it his business : he durst do for his friend , any thing that was honest , and no more . he would undertake nothing but what well became him , and then he was unwearied till he had effected it . as he concerned himself for his friend , in all other respects , so especially in that , which went nearest to him of all earthly concernments . he would not suffer any blot to be thrown , or to ly upon his friends good name , or his memory . and that office i am obliged to requite , in giving some account of that which has been spoken by some to his disadvantage . i shall neglect for he did so , any frivolous reports ; but that which seems to have any weight in it , as far as i have observed , is , that he had not that zeal for the church , that they would seem to have that object this . he seemed to look upon the dissenters , with too much favour to their persons and ways . as to the persons : no doubt that goodness of nature , that true christian principle , which made him willing to think well of all men , and to do good , or at least no hurt to any , might and ought to extend it self to them among others . but besides , he was inclined to it by his education , under his grandfather mr. dod , a truly pious & learned man ; who yet was a dissenter himself in some things ? not that he had any delight in contradiction , or could find in his heart to disturb the peace of the church for those matters he was so far from it , that as i have frequently heard from this his grandchild and others , when some thought their dissents ground enough for a war , he declared himself against it , and confirmed others in their allegiance : he profest to the last a just hatred of that horrid rebellion . now his relation to this man , and conversation with those of his principles , might incline him to hope the like of others of that way . and when he found them farther off from the unity of the church ; he might possibly overdo , through the vehemence of his desire , to bring them off of their prejudices , and to reduce them to the unity of the church ; in which his grandfather lived and dyed : why might he not hope the same of other dissenters ? as for himself , he was so far from approving their ways , that in the worst of times , when one here present bewailed to him the calamities of the church , and declared his obedience even then to the laws of it : he incouraged him in it , he desired his friendship , and protected both him and many others , by an interest that he had gained , and made use of chiefly for such purposes . how he demeaned himself then , is known in both universities ; where he governed with praise , and left a very grateful remembrance behind him . how in the next times since , i cannot speak in a better place . and when i have named this city , and the two universities , i think he could not be placed in a better light in this nation . there were enough that could judge , and he did not use to disguise himself ; i appeal to you that conversed with him in those days , what zeal he hath exprest , for the faith , and for the unity of the church : how he stood up in defence of the order and government : how he hath asserted the liturgy , and the rites of it : he conformed himself to every thing that was commanded . beyond which , for any man to be vehement , in little and unnecessary things , whether for or against them , he could not but dislike ; and as his free manner was , he hath oft been heard to call it fanaticalness . how this might be misrepresented i know not , or how his design of comprehension might be understood . sure i am , that since he came into the government of the church , to which he was called in his absence ; he so well became the order , that it out-did the expectation of all that did not very well know him . he filled his place with a goodness answerable to the rest of his life ; and with a prudence above it , considering the two extreams , which were no where so much as in his diocess . though he was , as before , very tender to those that differed from him ; yet he was , as before , exactly conformable himself , and brought others to conformity , some eminent men in his diocese . he endeavoured to bring in all that came within his reach , and might have had great success , if god had pleased to continue him . but having given full proof of his intentions and desires , it pleased god to reserve the fruit for other hands , from which we have great cause to expect much good to the church . he was in perfect health in all other respects ; when a known infirmity , from an unknown cause , that had been easier to cure , than it was to discover , stole upon him , and soon became incurable . he was for many days in a prospect of death , which he saw as it approached , and felt it come on by degrees . some days before he died , he found within himself , as he often said , a sentence of death . in all this time , first of pain , then of dreadful apprehension , at last in the presence of death ; who ever saw him dismaid ? who ever found him surprized ? or head a word from him , unbecoming a wise man , and a true christian ? it was my infelilicity to be so engaged , that i could not duly attend him ; and so deceived with vain hopes , that i believed him not dying , till he was dead . but at the times i was with him , i saw great cause to admire his faith towards god , his zeal for his church , his constancy of mind , his contempt of the world , and his chearful hopes of eternity . i have heard much more upon these heads , from those that were with him . some of you may have heard other things from other men . it hath been the way of our adversaries to entitle themselves to dying men , even those , whose whole life was a testimony against them . thus after the death of our famous jewel , the papists were pleased to say , he dyed of their religion . militiere hath ventured to insinuate the same , of our late king of blessed & glorious memory . mens tongues and pens are their own , but lest they should abuse them and you , and the memory of this worthy prelate , as they have abus'd others , ( though nothing needs to be said to such groundless calumnies ) i declare , and that upon most certain grounds ; that he died in the faith of our lord jesus christ , and in the communion of the church of england , as it is by law established . he died only too soon for the church , and for his friends . but for himself he had lived long enough . he has liv'd long enough that dies well . for whatsoever he wants of that which we call time , it is added , though it adds nothing to eternity . as for us that are now to try how we can bear the want of those many blessings we enjoyed in him ; what shall we say ? we must submit to the will of god. our comfort is , that we shall follow , and come together again in due time. till when , farewel pious and virtuous soul , farewel great and excellent man , farewel worthy prelate and faithful friend . we have thy memory and example , thou hast our praises and our tears . while thy memory lives in our breasts , may thy example be fruitful in our lives : that our meeting again may be in joy unspeakable , when god shall have wiped away all tears from our eyes . finis . a sermon preached before the king at white-hall, on decemb. 1, m.dc.lxvii, being the first sunday in advent by william lloyd ... lloyd, william, 1627-1717. 1668 approx. 47 kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from 19 1-bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; 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(eebo-tcp ; phase 1, no. a48836) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set 61309) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, 1641-1700 ; 767:26) a sermon preached before the king at white-hall, on decemb. 1, m.dc.lxvii, being the first sunday in advent by william lloyd ... lloyd, william, 1627-1717. [2], 35 p. printed by e. cotes for henry brome ..., london : 1668. includes bibliographical references. reproduction of original in huntington library. created by converting tcp files to tei p5 using tcp2tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between 1473 and 1700 available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the 25,363 texts created during phase 1 of the project have been released into the public domain as of 1 january 2015. anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. 5% (or 5 pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of 100 instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level 4 of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p5, characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng bible. -n.t. -john vi, 14 -sermons. sermons, english -17th century. 2003-11 tcp assigned for keying and markup 2003-11 aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images 2003-12 mona logarbo sampled and proofread 2003-12 mona logarbo text and markup reviewed and edited 2004-02 pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a sermon preached before the king at white-hall , on decemb. 1. m.dc.lxvii . being the first sunday in advent . by william lloyd d. d. one of his majesties chaplains in ordinary . published by his maiesties command . london : printed by e. cotes , for henry brome at the starr in little-brittain , anno dom. 1668. s. john vi . 14. then those men , when they saw the miracle which iesus did , said , of a truth this is that prophet that should come into the world . the text is the conclusion of a story that reaches from the beginning of the chapter to this verse . the persons concerned in it were of the iewish nation : a nation antiently famous and flourishing ; but at that time , under the yoke of a roman conquest : from which they yet hop't for deliverance , by a prophet , whom they lookt for about that time to come into the world. in this critical time , comes our lord iesus to shew himself ; poor and conteptible to see to , but withal so mighty in word and deed , that many believed him to be that prophet ; the rulers knew not what to think of him , and the people flockt after him in multitudes , which way soever he went. in this chapter he went over the sea of galilee ( so they call it , though in truth 't is but a lake ) the people , about 5000 of them , went about the lake to meet him . the place where they found him was desert , they were farr from any house or home , what provisions they brought with them were spent , and they seemed to be in no small distress ; which he mercifully considered , and miraculously relieved . out of that small pittance which one * lad had brought with him , he furnished a sufficient meal for 5000 persons , and caused twelve baskets to be filled with those fragments they had left . this they all saw , and were amaz'd at the thing , and magnified the person , whom they could judg to be no other than what himself profest that he was , namely , that he was that prophet that should come into the world. which judgment of theirs , how reasonable it was on their part , and what the use of it should be to us , are the things i am now to consider . the reason of their judgment stands briefly thus : they lookt for a prophet to come about that time ; and that he should make himself known to 'em by miracles : they had heard a great fame of christ , and now they saw him do a great miracle ; therefore they concluded that he must be that prophet . first , that the iews did look for one to come into the world , one that should be born of their nation ; a great prophet , a messias , one anointed of god , for the revealing of his will , and for the redemption of his people ; this is acknowledg'd on all hands . it was a chief article of the jewish faith , the very hope and expectation of israel : for , to them were committed the oracles of god ; in which they had promises and prophecies of him , almost from the beginning of the world , to the end of their scriptures . the time would fail me , if i should go about to reckon them . but methinks a short reckoning may serve , when i consider , that moses to these jews was instar omnium : he was the man in whom they did trust , and he prophesied of such a messias to come , deut. xviii . 15 , & 18. vers . 't is a remarkable text , and therefore i quote you both the place and the words . verse 15. moses speaks to the people of israel , in his own words , the lord thy god will raise up unto thee a prophet from the midst of thee , of thy brethren , like unto me , unto him shall ye hearken : and then to assure them , that he said not this of himself , he repeats the words that god spoke to him upon mount sinai to this purpose , verse 18. i will raise them up a prophet from among their brethren like unto thee . now , that christ was one of their brethren , the jews cannot but acknowledg : and that christ was like unto moses , we christians are able to shew them . but to spare us that trouble , they say , this text was not meant of the messias . of whom then ? why , of such prophets as god would raise up from time to time in his church . but there were many such prophets , and the text speaks expresly but of one : whom therefore aben ezra * will have to be ioshua the successor of moses . abraham seba * sayes , it is intended of the prophet ieremy but neither this , nor that , nor any other prophet , can fill up the character of this person ; of whom god sayes , he shall be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 like unto thee : moses sayes 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 he shall be like unto me . for never was there any prophet 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 like unto moses , deut. xxxiv . 10. nor ever will be , sayes maimonides , except the messias , who , sayes he * , shall be a great prophet , and like to our master moses . it may seem strange , that our modern jews , who so passionately dote on the hopes of a messia , should be so loath to hear of him in this prophesie . but there is no strangeness in it , to him that considers the witchcraft of contradiction . they think themselves bound to find another sense of the words , because the apostles of christ have quoted them in this sense . st. peter , act. iii. 22. st steven , act. vii . 37. both of them , in express terms , applying this prophesie to christ. not to say that others also do it in general words ; namely , philip , joh. i. 45. st. paul in the xxvi . & xxviii . chap. of the acts. nay , our saviour himself , ioh. v. 45. telling the jews , that moses wrote concerning him . all which quotations in the new testament , as they do prejudice the modern jews , against the true understanding of this prophesie ; so they plainly prove , that it was thus understood by their forefathers : for else it had been a vain thing for the apostles to go about to prove christ to be the messias , out of such a text as those jews understood in a different sense : especially when there were so many other texts of scripture , which the jews do acknowledg to be meant of the messias , that could have been as easily alledg'd by them , and as aptly applyed to christ , as this prophesie which is now in question . for the proof of what i say , i shall produce two or three such texts ; and my choice shall be of those , that not only foretold that a messias was to come , but also markt out the time when he was to be expected : gen. xlix . 10. is iacobs prophesie , that the scepter shall not depart from juda , till shilo come ; that is , there shall never cease to be kings and princes of the house of juda , till the messias come : so both the targums render it ; and so does onkelos , whose paraphrase is of greatest authority among the jews , and who himself lived about 40 years before christs incarnation . another prophesie there was , but along time after this ; it was foretold when the second temple was building , that the desire of the nations , in haggai ; the lord whom they sought , in malachi ; should come , and that suddenly , to that temple . the texts are haggai ii . 7. & mal. iii. 1. both which places are clearly meant of the messias , and the latter of them is so interpreted by aben ezra * and david kimchi * , two of the learnedest blasphemers of christ in the jewish nation . i shall offer but one testimony more , and it is from that prophet , whom i think no man , without invincible obstinacy , can read and consider , and not be a christian ; so unquestionable he is for his authority , so evident in his predictions , so punctual in the circumstances of them : i mean the prophet daniel ; who bewailing the desolation of ierusalem , and the 70 years captivity of his nation , was told by an angel they should soon be restor'd , and ierusalem be rebuilt . but farther , that after 7 times 70 , that is , after 490 years , from the going forth of the commandement for the rebuilding of ierusalem , they should be a nation no more ; that within the last 70 of these years , the messias should come , the holy one should be anointed ; dan. ix . 24. and that he should be cut off , but not for himself , verse 26. and then , that a prince should come , and destroy the holy city and the sanctuary , as there it follows in the end of the chapter . how easie a thing was it for any considering man in christs daies , to reckon within a small matter of those 490 years ? i say , within a small matter ; because there might be some doubt where to fix the beginning of that reckoning : whether it should begin at the first commandment , for the rebuilding of ierusalem ; or , at the last , which was about 50 years after . which possibly was the cause , why r. nechonia ben hakkana , who lived about 50 years before christs incarnation , said , as grotius * tells us , ( for i know not his author ) we are now within 50 years of the messias ; and r. iose , who lived about 50 years after christs death , said , according to r. iacob in caphtor , we are now past the time of the messia . certain it is , that the 100 years between these , was a time of great expectation , of some extra ordinary person to come into the world : which expectation began in iudea , and from thence it spread even all the world over . among the gentiles there were strange intimations of an universal king that was then to be born ; as may appear from cicero a , and virgil b , from suetonius c , and tacitus d , in their several writings . among the iews it was a question in every mans mouth , where is he that should be born ? so the pharisees to iohn baptist , art thou he ? and so the baptist to our saviour , art thou he that should come ? so the people among themselves , is not this that prophet ? they were at it upon every occasion , and dearly they paid for it at last . for they put the nations about them all into a ferment with these discourses , and then into a rage with their commotions , which could never be laid but with the destruction of their temple and government ; according to those prophesies , which being read to them in their synagogues every sabbath day , as st. paul * saith , they fulfil'd , because they understood not . and as for those obstinate wretches , whom god suffered to outlive that destruction , when the terrour of it was a little over , and they begin to recollect themselves , and to consider what hope they had left of the promise ; the scepter being now departed from iuda , there being no temple left , and the 490 years long since expired ; what a confusion they were in , 't is not possible to express , nor easie to imagine , without reading of their talmud , where * in the 4th part , 4th . book , 11th . chap. you may find them casting up among themselves , what hopes they had left of their messias . one reflects upon that prophesie of the school of elias , that the world should last 6000 years ; 2000 years before the law * , and 2000 under the law , and 2000 under the messias : which makes well for us , because christ came much about the year 4000 ; but made ill for them , because that year was then past and gone . another makes mention of two old prophesies , that the messias should come after 85 jubilees , that is , about the year 4200 ; but those prophesies gave them no comfort , that year also being past and gone . a third said , all our prefixed times are at an end ; a fourth , that the messias was come already and lived somewhere incognito ; a fifth , wisht the bones of him broken that should keep any more reckoning of time . a strange and a certain accomplishment of that most antient prophesie * concerning the state of the jews after their rejection of the messiah ; that god would sinite them with madness , and blindness , and astonishment of heart ; that they should grope at noonday , as the blind gropes in darkness ; a prophesie that ought not to be lightly past by , but i must not go beyond my line . i have shewed , that our prophet was foretold , and that a time was set for his coming , and that in christs daies that time was come . now what could the jews desire more but some token to know him by ? and such a token was this 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in my text. it signifies properly a sign , though we translate it a miracle ; which obliges me to shew what a miracle is , and how fitly it was ordein'd to be the sign of the great prophet . a miracle , according to the derivation of the word , is such a work as is apt to raise wonder and admiration in us . and admiration proceeds from the ignorance of causes . therefore fools wonder at many things , because they know the causes of few things : wise men admire at those things which proceed from occult causes in nature , though the things are very usual and ordinary : all men admire at those things which are unusual and extraordinary ; which if they also exceed the whole power of nature , so far as any man is able to judge of it , then they are properly and strictly called miracles . in every work , by the laws of nature , there must be an active cause naturally able and ready to work ; and there must be a passive matter fitly disposed for it : without both which , nothing can be done . if any thing be done without either of these , then it is said to be supernatural . 1 st . on the passive part , when either there is no matter at all , as in the creation of the world out of nothing ; or , when there is such a matter as has no fitness for such a use , as it was in the creation , and will be at the resurrection , of living man out of the dust of the earth . 2ly . in respect of the agent , when the work is above the reach of any natural cause , above the power of any creature that we can know of , as the staying of the sun in ioshuah's daies ; or when no second cause is imployed in it , or such a cause as has no disposition for it , no activity but what is supernaturally given it ; in all such cases a work is said to be miraculous . this kind of work god is pleased to make use of , as the seal of his commission to any person , as the attestation of his hand to any doctrine : so that if any person or doctrine be blameless in other respects , and only questionable for its authority ; it sufficiently clears its authority to be from god , that he sends it , or suffers it to come to us , with the testimony of miracles . thus moses , being sent from god to the people of israel , was appointed to take two or three witnesses along with him ; namely , two or three signs , to assure that captious people , that he was truly a prophet sent from god. first he turns his rod into a serpent , and then that serpent into a rod again ; he makes his hand in an instant become leprous , and immediately restores it again ; he takes up water out of the river , and poures it out perfect blood upon the ground . thus also , that prophet like unto moses , deut xviii . 15. was promised to come with signs like him , verse 21 , 22. to the same effect are many other texts of the old testament . but i think that one is enough , if i can show that the jews did believe it , that they depended upon it , and were ready on all occasions to exact this proof of a messias . it is not unlike , that the devil himself ( who is certainly a great textuary ) had some thought of this , when he tempted our saviour to command the stones to become bread . but as for the jews , it was unquestionably their way ; which st. paul observes , 1 cor. i. 21. the iews require a sign ; tell them of their prophet , and presently they call for a sign . how often were they upon these termes with our saviour ? he could be no messias for them , unless he would shew 'em a sign . though some of them before hand were resolv'd not to be convinc'd with it , yet none of 'em were to be satisfied without it ; nay not without many signs , as he tells them , joh. i. 5. * except ye see signs and wonders , ye will not believe . and 't is observable of barcozba , that famous impostor , who set up for a messias their own way , pretending to make 'em a great flourishing people , which so won him their hearts , that for a while they generally adher'd to him ; yet at last distrusting him for want of success , they put him to death only for want of a sign . which though maimonides * denies , as also he does this doctrine , for fear of being prest with the undeniable miracles of our saviour ; yet the talmud affirms both these , as to that of barcozba * , iv. 4. 11. and as to this doctrine † i. 1. 1. as also the midrash coheleth , c. 1. teaching , that all past miracles shall be as nothing in comparison of the miracles of the messias . which being the antient tradition of the jews , founded in the promises of god , deriv'd to them in the prophesies of scripture , which scriptures were read to them every sabbath day ; it is no wonder that the jews did set their hearts on this way of tryal . it remains to shew , how christ did answer their expectation . who as he was a prophet above all other prophets , so his miracles were farr above all other miracles . never any one did miracles like him , even his enemies being judges ; no nor all that ever were before him according to their own computation . for whereas all the prophets before him , in three or four thousand years , did but 74 miracles , besides moses who did 76 if their reckoning * were true ; our saviour alone in three or four years time at most , did more than it was possible to keep account of ; insomuch that as st. iohn says * in a proverbial expression , if they were all to be reckoned together , the whole world could not contain the books that should be written . whatsoever any man else did of this kind , whether prophet or apostle , he did it by a borrowed and limited power ; which he could neither communicate to others , nor exercise it himself , but by gods especial appointment : but for christ , who had the fulness of the godhead dwelling in him ; he did what he pleased , and when he pleased , by himself , or by others , being determin'd by nothing but by his own goodness and wisdom . what part of the creation , doth not afford us an instance of his power ? who had the blessed angels at his call , and the damned spirits subject to his will ; who commanded the seas and the winds and they obeyed him ; who guided the fishes in the deep , which way he pleased ; but especially for men , that were his peculiar charge , he provided against all their necessities and wants , their infirmities and miseries . he fed them by miracle , he heal'd them by miracle , of sundry diseases which were otherwise incurable : of inveterate dropsies and leprosies , of a palsie of 38 years , of blindness from ones birth ; what could one do more , but to raise men from the dead ? and thus he did divers , particularly lazarus who had lain four daies buried in the grave . and these things he effected , as well absent as present , in an instant as by sensible degrees ; by the applying of his hand , by the touch of his garment , by the word of his mouth , by the motion of his will ; to shew that any means would serve , that no means were necessary , that all times and places were alike , to the soveraign vertue that he imploy'd in the working of his miracles . which works being so evident testimonies of a divine authority , and being design'd for so universal a benefit , it was necessary that they should be as evidently and universally known . and this our saviour seems to have considered in all his miracles . if any of them were done privately , which were but few in comparison , he commanded them not to be spoken of , that there might be no suspicion of imposture . but for the generality of his works , he did them openly and publiquely ; before multitudes , or in throngs ; at feasts , or in synagogues , or in the streets , and in the open sun ; many of them in the temple , and that at passeover times , in the face of his watchful enemies , and before a whole nation of witnesses . this miracle in my text , was done in a desert , but it was in the presence of 5000 persons ; whom the fame of christs works had drawn thither to observe him , and therefore they could not well be surprized in the manner of it : nor could they be deceived in the action it self ; for they saw , and felt , and tasted the effects of it . he fully satisfied their hunger ; and so farr their hopes , that they determined to look for no other messias ; being assur'd that this was he , this of a truth is that prophet that should come into the world . i have done with the reason of their judgment : and should next proceed to the use of it ; but that i am sensible of an objection in the way , which some have started at this distance of time , to question the judgment of that age , and to promote the infidelity of this . i am sorry there should be any cause to mention it ; that instead of carrying on the building of god , and helping forward the duty of christian life , we must be put to answer those atheists that stand pecking at the foundation . but we must be content , since god is pleas'd to suffer it . it is a vicious world that we live in , and alwaies so much vice , so much unbelief . perhaps too , we are not farr from that time , of which christ saies , when the son of man comes , shall he find faith upon the earth ? if so , we are not like to prevail much against the atheists . howsoever we are bound to do our indeavour , and not to leave their arguments unanswer'd , though in effect we only leave their persons the more unexcusable . their objection is , that these evangelists being christs followers , might boldly assert things for the honour of their master and his cause , which for ought we know have been as stifly denied by the opposite parties . i propound this objection in behalf of a sort of men whose invention is commonly better then their reading . for whosoever is any whit skill'd in antiquity , must needs know , that the ground of this objection is false ; jews , heathens , mahometans , as many as write of this matter , do all confess , that our saviour did work miracles . for the mahometans , they are but of yesterday , and know nothing : only this they say in general , for the brutish proof of their sensual religion ; that as christ came with miracles , so mahomet came with the sword. as for iews and heathens , who in christs time , and after it , abounded with writers and learned men ; there is no reason to imagine , but if they had had any colour for it , they would as fiercely have denied christs miracles with their pens , as they persecuted his followers with fire and sword. but seeing it was in vain to deny those things , which so many thousands knew to be true ; and the memory of which , was continually revived , by those fresh miracles which the primitive christians wrought in christs name : therefore either they chose to take no notice of them at all in their writings ; or if they mention'd christs miracles , they ascrib'd them to magick or diabolical causes . and what can one ask more of an enemy , as to matter of fact ; then that he should either speak out and confess it , or shew by his silence that he knows not how to deny it ? no iew can with reason deny christ's miracles ; since they are confest by his own talmud in divers places , specially * in the 4 th . part , the 9th book . nor no heathen could in tertullian's or martyr's daies ; unless those learned men were monstrous silly and impudent , who durst * tell their emperours , they might finde proofs of them in pilat's records which were then at rome . they were such irrefragable proofs , that neither jew nor heathen had any thing to say to them , but this , that they were done by magick ; which may be said of any thing , and signifies just nothing : or , that they were done by evill spirits , which will not serve the turn of our atheist , who is as unwilling to believe that there is a devil , as that there is a god. but ( besides these quotations , which it were easie to multiply , if it were so proper for this place ; ) besides these , we have the greatest assurance that in reason can be wisht for , of the truth of these miracles . for what assurance can be had at such a distance , concerning things done 1600 years agoe ? the best that can be expected ▪ is a history written by some credible persons that lived in those times . and such a history this is , or there is no such in the world. for that it was written by them whose names it bears , no adversary ever question'd , and all christians have acknowledg'd , that have written from age to age ever since . nor is it questioned , that the things here written are the same that were taught by the twelve apostles : which apostles our saviour took along with him to be the constant witnesses of all his actions ; and they profess to have been present with him at most of the things that are here written . men so farr from being suspected of any deceit , that their simplicity and ignorance has been their only accusation . and that so many , such men , should conspire together , to fain incredible things , and to impose them upon the faith of mankind : why they should do this , without any temptation of honour , or wealth , or preferment ; nay with certain assurance of persecution , and misery , and cruel death , which their master foretold them , and they lookt for no other , and they were not mistaken in this : how they durst adventure such stories with such circumstances , of time , places , and persons , which they knew certainly would be sifted , and might easily have been disproved , if they had not been true ; all this were as prodigiously strange in them , as it would be now in us , if we should not believe them . but say , it were possible that they might be deceived themselves in christs miracles , yet sure ●hey could not be so in his resurrection ; and think whosoever believes his resurrection , is much to blame if he doubts of any of his miracles . this being that sign of the prophet io●as ; which christ said * he would reserve to the ●ast place , to confound them that would not be convinc't , and were therefore not worthy of ●ny other sign . but what say they of his resurrection ? ●ews and heathens say in the general , that he was put to death . these apostles tells us all ●he particulars of it ; and say farther , that after ●hree daies he rose again from the dead . that ●e show'd himself alive to them ; first to one ●r two at a time , then to all the twelve together , then to 500 of his followers at once , most of whom were alive when these things were written : but especially to those twelve apostles , he shew'd himself by many infallible proofs ; being seen of them , and conversing with them , for forty daies ; at the end whereof , being together with him upon mount olivet , after much discourse they beheld him taken up in a bright cloud , which carried him out of their sight . now is it reasonable to imagine , that all these men , all this while , had no use of their reason , or had not so much as common sense about them ? for if that relation was false , then one of these things must be true : that either they were besides their senses when they believ'd this ; or , they were out of their wits , when they affirm'd it , and laid down their lives for the witnessing of that which they did not believe . and what then shall we say to that world of christians , that render'd themselves up to the belief of these men that had so little reason to believe themselves ? 't is prodigious to think what i am about to say : and yet think it one must , o● he can be no atheist ; he must assent to all this which i am about to say . that a poor young man , of the meanest birth and breeding , of a most hateful nation , and hated himself by that nation , for taking upon him to be a prophet sent 'em from god , for which he was laid hold of , and put to a bitter and most shameful death . that after his death , a few fishermen and others , as mean as himself in all circumstances , should still proclaim that he was that prophet : and confirm it with a story of his resurrection , and with loud boasts of miracles wrought by him and his followers , all which were utterly false ; promising all them that would believe in him , nothing in this world but affliction and cruel death , which their own sufferings prov'd to be true : that such men , with no other charms , should work such a faith , in all the wisest part of mankind ; and that with so lasting an impression as time has not been able to deface , no , nor vice neither , which is the thing that makes them desire to deface it . that so impregnable a faith should be bottom'd on so foul an imposture , ( pardon me great god that i lend breath to their blasphemies ) 't is a thing so prodigiously incredible , that it could never enter into any man's head , unless he were for his lust's sake as great a monster of credulity , as i have shew'd him , in other respects , to be a very monster of unbelief . i fear this discourse may have been larger then the occasion ; nay i hope it rather in this place ; and would to god that it were wholly superfluous , that there were no more unbelievers in this world , then there will be in the other ; and then i am sure there would be few enough . but i have now done with them , and am to speak to your selves ; to you that believe the holy scriptures , & desire to make a profitable use of ' em . and the use of this scripture is , to observe what these men in my text , did according to reason , and ( allowing for the difference of circumstances ) to do the same thing our selves . namely , if we have any prophet yet to come , and the promise of miracles to know him by ; then it is our duty , when we see those miracles , to acknowledge that prophet : but if we have no such prophet to expect , and no more miracles to look for ; then it behoves us to make much of those miracles , and that prophet that we have already , and to look for no other . this appears to be the natural consequence of my text. it hath been proved , that christ is that prophet , of whom god has foretold us from the beginning of the world : and this prophet has told us , * behold , i am with you to the end of the world. but have we any other to look for ? any other prophet to come ? any farther miracles to know him by ? it should seem that we have : for christ saies words to that purpose ; and he saies it not lightly , but he laies great weight upon it , behold , saies he * i tell you of this before . there shall arise false christs and false prophets , and shall show great signs and wonders ; insomuch that ( if it were possible ) they shall deceive the very elect. particularly , 2 thess. ii . 9. that son of perdition ; whose coming shall be after the working of satan , with all power , and signs , and lying wonders . so likewise , 1 tim. iv . 1. the spirit speaks expresly , that thus it shall be in the latter times . all which things are confirmed by other places of scripture : and are applyed by st. iohn to the second beast ; that hath horns like a lamb , but speaks like a dragon : whose miracles are set forth , rev. xiii . 13. & xvi . 14. & xix . 20. &c. that the first beast which st. iohn there describes with seven heads , was the heathen , and imperial rome , i think all interpreters do agree . whether the second beast be the papal rome , it is not our business now to enquire , let them see to it that are her worshippers and followers . but it is our business to know whom to beware of ; and christ has warn'd us of some body that shall pretend to miracles , and we know of none , but the papal rome , that does pretend to them . she makes it one of her marks , and vaunts that she is to be known by her miracles . but what then ? did not christ promise miracles to his church ? and ought not his promise to be made good ? it is most true , that he did promise , and that he has perform'd , we have sufficient proofs of it , both in scripture , and in the records of the primitive church . for it was necessary that our great prophet should be made known to us ; as well in his doctrine , as in his person ; that the christian faith should be planted and setled by miracles . but when this doctrine was written and publisht , and where this faith was planted and generally received ; then there was no such necessity ; then it was enough to say , thus it is written ; which writings were as obligatory to all them that had received this doctrine , as if they had been preacht to them severally by persons risen from the dead . of which those fathers were so throughly satisfied that lived in those times , when most part of the world was already converted ; that they plainly profest , that now the time of miracles was at an end . they are few and rare now , if any , saith chrysostome in hom. 4. on mat. there are more feign'd ones amongst false christians , then true ones amongst the true ; saith the author of the imperfect work , hom. 49. 't is enough for christians , that the old miracles are read to them , saith st. austin * ; and for heathens , that miracles are yet done by us , though not so frequently , nor so manifestly , as in former times . little did these good men think , that within some ages after they were dead , and in those places where there were no heathens to convert , there should arise a sect of christians more abounding with miracles in some one age , than were ever seen in all ages of the world before : and the reason is plain , for those fathers never dreamt of those new doctrines and designs that would have need to be usher'd in and supported with new miracles ; nor of the wickedness of those men that holp the devil to invent them ; nor of the gross ignorance of an after-age , that fitted the people to receive ' em . all which things , had they not conspired together , it had been impossible for such monstrous absurdities to be imposed upon the faith of so great a part of mankind . how could those strange fictions of purgatory have ever obtain'd ; if men had not been fool'd into the belief of them , with pretended visions , and revelations , and apparions ? who could ever have been so sottish , as to adore the works of the pencil , and the chizzle ; unless the dumb things themselves had been made to move , and sweat , and talk , and weep for it ? what believer of the true god would ever have stoopt to the invocation of his fellow-creatures ? nay to invocate them more then god , ( for god is not so often pray'd to , as the virgin mary ) but that these blessed creatures themselves , as well as their deluded worshippers , have been abused intolerably by the forgers of miracles ? i shall instance but in one doctrine more ; i might do it in many , for there is hardly any one of their upstart doctrines , which has not been taught or promoted this way ; but this is the transcendent foppery of all , the doctrine of transubstantiation . a miracle it self they call it , in their manual , which teaches them to say thus at the elevation ; oh miracle ! oh the goodness &c. this is done by no iugling , but in the open sight of all the lookers on . and what do the lookers on discern ? do they see any visible change of the elements ? no , not the least shadow of alteration : but what is it that they believe ? a miracle ? nay , more than a miracle , flat impossibility and contradiction . a subject to be without accidents , and accidents without any subject . they believe the same body to be at the same time in so many several places , and whole in every place ; in heaven , upon earth , both here , and at rome , and in both the indies . oh monstrous belief ! had not this need to be supported with miracles ? it was propagated by them , and bellarmine * proves it by them , because some have seen the host to bleed , others have seen a child in the place of it ; and he tells us , that st. anthony of padua's horse forsook his oats to go and worship it . i am sensible that these things are very ridiculous , and therefore i am ashamed to mention any more of them . and yet , i hope , you will excuse us , if we mention in our sermons such things as have been the chief arguments of theirs ; and such arguments as their great masters of controversie despair not , that some may possibly be fools enough to believe them . but if i should proceed into their legends and lives ; if i should spread before you the filth of those lewd romances ; i should seem to have too little regard to this place , and to this presence . they are stuft with such absurd tales , such idle and extravagant prodigies : as if the devil had invented them in a wanton humour ; being not content to have affronted the true miracles of god , and to have had his will upon the doctrine of christ ; but he must insult also , and sport himself with the ignorance and superstition of men. i cannot think of these things without some wonder at those men , who , knowing that these things are written in their own books , and that some of us are able to read them , can yet be so impudent as to revile and scoffe at the reformation . that happy recovery of christian religion ! without which , their old tales would have been gospel still ; and the cheat would have proceeded farther still , and 't is hard to imagine what a monster , by this time , christianity would have grown . i know some of them say , that they themselves are the better for it , which yet may be a very great question . for though the crafts-men among them are grown more wary of late daies , in shewing of their tricks , and the writers of them bring their matters more within compass than their predecessors did : yet they can never wipe off the shame of their old doings , while they read lessons in their churches collected out of those legends ; and while they retain those doctrines , ( nay they make them part of their creed , ) that owe , some their being , and all their reputation , to those gross and palpable impostures . for us , we have great cause to bless god for the reformation ; which , like christianity when it first appear'd in the world , has chased away these demons and their oracles from among us . i do not hear they work any miracles among us of late daies ; unless this be a miracle , which i think is no wonder , that some persons , for some causes , are won over to so corrupt a religion . for our parts , we pretend to no new miracles , nor have any occasion , while we content our selves with the old doctrines , while we hold to the prophet that god has sent us , we may rest in those miracles that he wrought for us . god grant we may be wrought by 'em into a due faith and obedience . first , we owe a duty of faith to the doctrines of our prophet ; to all that have been taught by him and his apostles , and are left written for us in the holy scriptures . in which scriptures , though there be many things hard to be understood , which ignorant and unstable souls wrest to their own damnation : yet all those things are plainly deliver'd , which are necessary for us to know . which were therefore collected by the apostles into the creed ; and own'd by the fathers under the name of the apostolical tradition : the profession of which was necessary for every man , at his baptism , to make him a christian ; and was sufficient for any man , that was baptiz'd , to be known by as a member of the catholick church . this is the tradition , not of one or two , but of all ages : this is the faith , not of this or that , but of all churches : as far as christianity goes , it is the same faith and tradition still . this has the seal of god to it , in all the miracles of christ , and of his apostles , and of the primitive christians . whosoever adds to it , or varies from it , ( especially if he pretend to miracles , of which the scripture has forewarn'd us , ) we are bound to defie both him and his doctrines . if we hold our selves close to this faith , and if this should happen to deceive us ; what have we to say ? but with st. victor , oh lord , it is thou that hast deceiv'd us ; thou hast given such plain demonstrations , such visible testimonies , of thy almighty hand to it ; that if this should be false , we know not what can be true . for there is no possible way of certainty of things removed from bodily sense , no way to make any thing surer to our belief ; then that is , by which we are made sure of this , that this faith , this christian doctrine , was taught by that prophet that was sent from god. lastly , we owe the duty of obedience to his precepts , to those rules of life which he has given us in the name of god. rules that , like their author , are full of justice and goodness ; then which nothing can be more fitly contrived , to make us live happily here in this world , and to prepare us for a better life in the world to come . nor do they provide only for the private , but also for the publick . they both direct and secure every man in his own proper station . so that he were neither a friend to himself , nor a lover of humane society , that should not heartily submit to these laws ; though he were led to it by no other consideration , but that of their own goodness and utility . but withall when we consider , from what hand they come ; and by whom , and in what manner they were sent : how can we acquit our selves , in the breach of these laws , of the highest ingratitude and rebellion against almighty god ? that good god , that has been pleased to require nothing of us , but such things as of themselves are truly best for us ; and yet , as if that were not enough to oblige us , has recommended 'em by such a prophet , and confirm'd them to us by undeniable testimonies . unless we obey these laws , what can we expect from him ? what ought we to think of our selves ? if the iews , out of a misunderstanding of god's counsel , did oppose and reject it ; if that whole generation of men were overwhelmed with such calamities , as no other nation ever felt , no other age ever knew ; if their whole posterity were sent wandring about the world , to make us fear that great god that has sent these examples to our doors : how shall we ever hope to escape , if we neglect so great a salvation as is now offered to us ? what examples may god make of us in this world ? what judgments must we look for in the other ? what penalties , what measure of wrath , can be too much for such ungrateful wretches , such rebels against the supream majesty of god ? i beseech you pardon me this great vehemence , if any degree of vehemence can need pardon , in the pressing of things that so infinitely concern you . that these things do so , we shall be more sensible hereafter . it is but a little while ; and he that is now our prophet , shall come to be our judge , and shall call us to a strict account before him . then will the observation of his laws be a comfort and a joy : then will the neglect of them cause horror and desperation . 't will be a restless grief to reflect , how easily we were won to neglect them ; how easily we might have observ'd them . we have yet the opportunity before us . good god give us hearts to consider it : now in this time of advent , so to remember the first coming of thy son , when he came to be our prophet ; that we may be prepared , and ready for his second coming , when he shall come to be our judge . to whom , &c. the end . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a48836-e150 * 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , vers. 9. * in their comments on the place . * in their comments on the place . * in teshuba cap. 9. * in their comments on the places . * in their comments on the places . * de veritate christ. relig. l. 5. §. 14. a l. 1. epist. 1. & l. 2. de divinatione . b eclog 4. c de vespasiano , c. 4. d hist. l. 4. * act. xiii . 27. * in sanhedrin , c. chelek . * 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 * deuter. xxviii . 28 , 29. * joh. iv . 49. * in hilcheth melachim , c. 11. * ibid. in sanhedrin . † in berachoth c. meemathe korin . * israel's conciliator , part. 1. q. 11. in deut. * joh. xxi . 25. luk xviii . 8. v. rycaut of the ottoman empire , l. 2. c. 2 , 3. * in aboda zara. * iustin m. in apol. 2. tertull. in apol. c. 21. v. euseb. hist. l. 2. c. 2. * mat. xii . 39. * mat. xxviii . 20. * mat. xxiv . 24 , 25. which text is thus applyed by the fathers , chrysostom , austin , &c. v. ambros. in 1 cor. xii . in fine . * de civ . dei l. 22. c. 8 , 9 , 10. * de sacram. eucharistiae , l. 3. c. 8. papists no catholicks, and popery no christianity lloyd, william, 1627-1717. 1677 approx. 55 kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from 9 1-bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : 2005-10 (eebo-tcp phase 1). a48824 wing l2688 estc r20529 12402909 ocm 12402909 61320 this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons 0 1.0 universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase 1, no. a48824) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set 61320) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, 1641-1700 ; 767:18) papists no catholicks, and popery no christianity lloyd, william, 1627-1717. [4], 12 p. printed for the author, london : 1677. attributed to william lloyd by wing. reproduction of original in huntington library. created by converting tcp files to tei p5 using tcp2tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between 1473 and 1700 available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the 25,363 texts created during phase 1 of the project have been released into the public domain as of 1 january 2015. anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. 5% (or 5 pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of 100 instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level 4 of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p5, characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng catholic church -controversial literature. 2003-11 tcp assigned for keying and markup 2003-12 spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images 2005-02 andrew kuster sampled and proofread 2005-02 andrew kuster text and markup reviewed and edited 2005-04 pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion papists no catholicks : and popery no christianity . h b london , printed for the author , 1677. imprimatur , g. jane , r.p.d. hen. episc. lond. à sac . dom . jan. 10. 1676 / 7. to the christian reader . the council of trent , confirmed by the pope , is the chief oracle of the church of rome : from it she receives all doctrines necessary to be believed unto salvation ; romish catholiques hold it for a principle , that whatsoever is delivered therein for doctrine , is an article of faith ; and must stedfastly be believed , upon pain of damnation : he that doth not , is pronounced an heretick , and is made liable to their supposed curse . what little reason there is , that papists should yield such blind obedience to that council , may appear by this plain and true testimony , which was given thereunto by a bishop , an eminent member of that church and council , who was present thereat ; which is as followeth . andreas dvdithivs bishop of quinquecclesisiae , and embassador in the council of trent , for maximilian ii. emperor : in an epistle to the said emperor ( wherein he delivers his judgment about granting the cup to the laity , and the marriage of priests ) writes thus of the council of trent : what good could be done in that council , where voices were taken by number not by weight ? if argument , if reason , might have prevailed , if we had had some , and those not many , to take part with us , though we should have been but a few , yet had we overthrown the great forces of our adversaries : but when all stood upon number , wherein we were much inferior , we could not get the better , the pope was able to set an hundred of his against every one of ours : and if an hundred were not sufficient , he could upon a sudden have created a thousand to succour them that were ready to faint and perish . therefore we might see every day hungry and needy bishops , and those for the most part beardless yonkers , and wastfully riotous , come in flocks to trent , hired to give their voices according to the popes humour : unlearned indeed , and foolish , but of good use to him for their audaciousness and impudency . when these fellows were joined to the popes old flatterers , then iniquity got the upper hand and triumphed : neither could any thing be decreed but according to their liking who thought it the highest point of religion to defend the power and riot of the pope . there was in the council a grave and learned man , who could not endure this indignity ; but the council by terror threatning and baiting him , as one that was 〈◊〉 good catholick , drew him to yield to that which he did no way like of . in a word , things are brought to that pass by their dishonesty who came thither prepared and made for the nonce , that it seemed to be a council not of bishops but of puppies ; not of men but of images , who ( as it is reported of daedalus statues ) were moved not by their own , but by other mens nerves and muscles . those hireling bishops most of them were like country bag-pipes , which must have breath blown into them before they can sound . the holy ghost had nothing to do with that conventicle all things were argued by humane policy , which was wholly employed in maintaining the immoderate , and indeed most shameless lordship and domination of the popes . from thence were answers looked and waited for , as it were from the oracles of delphos or dodona ▪ from thence the holy ghost , who ( as they brag ) is president of their council , was sent shut up in the carriers budgets and packs , who ( a thing worthy to be laught at ) when the waters were up ( as it falls out many times ) was fain to stay till they were down again before he could repair to the council . by this it came to pass that the spirit was not carried upon the waters , as in genesis , but along beside the waters . o monstrous and incredible madness ! nothing that the bishops , as it were the body of the church resolved of , could be of any force , unless it came first from the pope as the head of the body . the popish faith is pius quartus his creed at trent , so that we may justly demand of papists , where was their religion before trent , which was since luther ? hath not the church of rome the lords prayer ? yes : except the doxology . wherein doth she differ from the reformed church in that great duty of prayer ? the reformed church placeth the virtue of prayer in faith , grounded upon the promise of god. but the romish religion confines the virtue of prayer to several repetitions of the same words by count , and in a language the people understand not . and that if one pater noster or ave maria be neglected once , and the prescribed number be not fully compleated , then all the merit of that prayer is lost . which is as scandalously opposite , as if it were done in a meer despight against the express order of the great apostle st. paul in his epistle to the corinthians , especially from the 13. to the 17. verse . whereas their own aquinas and lyra both confess , that the common service of the church in the primitive times , was in the common language , and the christians of dalmatia , habassia , armenia , muscovia , russia , and the reformed parts of christendom have the service of god in their vulgar tongue . hath not the church of rome the creed ? yes : but their popes have besides at trent coined a great number of new articles of faith , the author to the preface to bishop jewels works , and doctor sharp's looking-glass for the pope , page 271. reduces them to 12. and published by pius quartus , with straight charge to be received of all men upon peril of salvation . nor doth the pope only dare to make and impose new articles of faith upon the people ; but most impiously to detract from , and alter the very x commandments of the lord jehovah . witness their decalogue so often published by the church of rome , which is as follows . [ 1. ] i am the lord thy god , thou shalt have no other gods but me . [ 2. ] thou shalt not take the name of god in vain . [ 3. ] remember to sanctifie the sabbath day . [ 4. ] honour thy father and mother . [ 5. ] thou shalt not kill . [ 6. ] thou shalt not commit adultery . [ 7. ] thou shalt not steal . [ 8. ] thou shalt not bear false witness . [ 9. ] thou shalt not desire thy neighbours wife . [ 10. ] thou shalt not desire thy neighbours goods . wherein the second commandement is not only left out , ( as it is usually in their psalm-books and catechisms ) because it perfectly condemns their idolatry : but they divide the tenth commandement into two ; whereas the holy ghost foreseeing the abominations of antichrist in the last days , was pleased ( by way of anticipation ) to place thou shalt not covet thy neighbours house , before that of thy neighbours wife [ in exodus ] and in the fifth of deuteronomy , in the tenth commandement thereto place thy neighbours wife [ first ] before thy neighbours house ; so that the bibles printed among themselves , will condemn them of horrible wickedness therein . doth not the romish church allow the reading of the scripture ? wheresoever the pope rules absolutely , he forbids the people to read the holy scripture : and in the index of prohibited books made by the council of trent , and approved of by the said pius quartus , it is expresly declared , that if the holy bible were allowed to all indifferently in the vulgar tongue , there would come more hurt than good of it . this is an express and direct opposition to our lord jesus christ , who saith to all indifferently , search the scriptures for in them you think to have eternal life ; and they are they that testifie of me . and to his holy apostles , who address their epistle not only to bishops , but also to all those that call upon the name of the lord jesus , and not only to men , but also to women , young folk , and children , adjuring them by the lord , that they be read to all the holy brethren . whence we argue thus , all who forbid christian people to read the holy scripture , do directly and formally oppose jesus christ and his holy apostles : but the pope and his creatures forbid christians to read the holy scriptures , therefore they directly and formally oppose jesus christ and his apostles . but doth not the church of rome own the holy scripture to be the word of god ? nevertheless she hath falsified and corrupted it in many places . as for example , in heb. 11.21 . it is said , that jacob worshipped , leaning upon the top of his staff , but the romish bible saith , that jacob worshipped the top of his staff , thereby to confirm the adoration of creatures , which is the same abuse which is found in psal. 132. where david saith , worship at his footstool , the romish bible says , worship his footstool . jesus christ when he gave the cup , said , this cup is the new testament of my blood , which is shed for you ; but the romish bible reads it , which shall be shed for you , left it might be perceived that jesus christ speaks of the effusion of his sacramental blood : for he did not then really shed his blood , which he began to shed in his passion . in gen. 3.15 . god says , that the seed of the woman ( which is jesus christ ) shall bruise the serpents bead : the romish translation saith , the woman shall bruise the serpents head : attributing that to the virgin mary which belongs to christ. to establish the uncertainty of salvation , the vulgar translation reads the first verse of eccles. 9. thus , man knows not whether he be worthy of love or hatred , but all things are reserved in uncertainty for the future . but the hebrew text is this , no man knows either love or hatred by all that is before them . to establish mans merit , the romish bible corrupts the 13. verse of heb. 16. and to the same purpose they have curtail'd the 6. verse of rom. 11. leaving out two links for these words of the apostle , ( if it be of works , then it is no more of grace , otherwise work is no more work ) are rased out , and omitted in their vulgar translation . a great collection might be made of many other passages , and of romes enormities in her like practices . yet is not the church of rome the mother and mistress of all churches ? no , for the preaching of christ was to begin at jerusalem in the prophesie of isaiah 2.2 . mic. 4.2 . and in the completion in luke 24.47 . nor was it rome but antioch in which the disciples were first called christians . act. 11.26 . so there was a church at antioch before there was one at rome . and it is expresly affirmed by gildas an author very much revered by the romanists themselves , that christianity was in britain in the latter time of tiberius caesar , and 't is known st. peter remained in jury some time after his death , so that rome , which pretends to be a mother church , could be no more at best ( when she was christian indeed ) than a sister church , and not the eldest sister neither . and as for the pretended universality of the roman , that is to say , of a particular church , it began with boniface the third , whose vile compliance with phocas ( that heretick and murtherer of mauritius their master and emperor ) was both the bribe and price that bought that title , and not out of respect to the pope , but in displeasure to cyriacus of constantinople , who from john his predecessor , had first usurped that title of universal bishop : so that gregory the great of rome , writing to mauritius , touching the name of universal , which the said bishop of constantinople had taken unto himself , calls it a wicked , profane , and blasphemous title , a title importing that the times of anti-christ were at hand , little thinking that pope boniface after his decease , would presently usurp the same , and prove the pope to be anti-christ by the confession of a pope . and have not the successors of that heretical traiterous bloudy boniface exactly followed his steps to this present age ? beside , if we look back to the beginning , we find that paul was equal at least to peter , when he withstood him to the face , and rebuked him in publick for his dissimulation , gal. 2.11 , 12 , 13 , 14. nay st. peter as well as james and john , who were his peers , perceiving the grace that was given to paul , gave to paul and barnabas the right hand of fellowship , gal. 2.9 , and good reason , for peter was but one of the many apostles of the jews , whereas paul was much more the great apostle of the gentiles , to whom the jews were no more than a river to the ocean . moreover , cyprian positively affirms , the apostles were every one of equal authority ; and st. jerom is as express , that all bishops in all places , whether at rome , constantinople , rhegium , or eugubium , are of the same merit as to the quality of their office , though they may differ in point of revenue . nay , by the canons of the two first general councils , nice and constantinople , every patriarch and bishop is appointed to be chief in his proper diocess . and a strict injunction is laid on all ( none excepted ) that they presume not to meddle in any diocess but their own . and the very primacies of order were granted to rome and constantinople , not for their being ▪ sees of such or such an apostle , but for being the two seats of the two great empires . did not the church of england first depart from the church of rome ? they of rome by their excommunications and barbarous murders and hostilities , properly first departed from us , separating from the primitive church of christ , and we then made a secession , that we might not be partaker of their schism and heresies . what difference is there between the reformed church and the church of rome ? they are very many , i shall only hint some ; as first , the reformed church gives addresses which may be followed , and exhorts men to study , and strives to instruct them in the holy scripture , and conceals nothing from the people : but the church of rome endeavours to keep the people in ignorance , especially in the business of religion , and therefore forbids them the use of the scriptures , giving them service in an unknown tongue , amusing them with images , exterior ornaments , and addresses the people to where they know nothing , giving them undiscernable marks , as the succession of chairs , whereof some are more antient than that of rome : and their successions imbroiled with many interruptions and contradictions in history . the ministers of the reformed church will be judged by the word of god , but the priests of the romish church will be judges of the word of god , which argues their guilt ; for when they are accused of heresies and blasphemies , they will be themselves judge of this question , and consequently will be both judge and party . the protestant ministers have a charge and calling , the institution whereof is found in the holy scripture , for the word of god speaks oftentimes of pastors , doctors and ministers . this being as clear as the day , the calling of the priests of rome falls necessarily to the ground , and is of no use ; for in the ordination of their priests , they are not charged to preach the gospel : but they are expresly established to be sacrifiers of the body of jesus christ , which is an imaginary charge , never established by jesus christ , nor practized by the apostles , and whereof there is not any one word in all the new testament . and yet , these are they which question others concerning their calling , whereas there is not any word of the sacrifiers of the body of christ. the reformed church in the sacrament of the eucharist , indeavours to raise up mans heart to jesus christ which is in heaven : but that of rome abaseth jesus christ , and puts him into the hands of men , they make their breaden god , adore , and then eat him up : and according to their doctrine , christ did eat his whole self , and drink his own body , for they will have the body to be in the cup , which is highly scandalous both to jews and turks . and note , in all sacrifices that which is offered must be consecrated ; and they pretend to sacrifice the body of our saviour , which cannot be consecrated : for who can consecrate the son of god , who is he alone that doth consecrate us . so then the sacrifice of the mass doth in this appear to be null . and as to their objection , take eat , this is my body ? it must be either cibus animae vel corporis ; if bodily food , how can it nourish the soul ? if spiritual , how can it enter into the body ? besides , deus non potest facere qua naturae suae sunt contraria . now ambrose resolves this with us , and says , that corpus nutritur pane symbolice , anima vero corpore christi . which agrees with the whole scope of the scripture , speaking of it every where in a spiritual sense and ●●guratively . moreover , if christs body be really present in the sacrament , as papists affirm , where is the outward visible sign ? and the institution of the eucharist being but to last usque quo venerit , until i come . if christ be really , corporeally and substantially present in the sacrament , as the church of rome teacheth her creatures to believe upon pain of damnation ; their transubstantiation is a meer cheat , for the sacrament then ceaseth . the council of trent also determined , that there are neither more or less , but just seven sacraments : whereas instead of seven the romish church hath thirteen : for themselves say , that the sacrament which they call orders , is subdivided into seven , which have each of them a particular form , and different ceremonies : vid. the porters , readers , conjurers , acolytes , subdeacons , deacons and priests . but let them justifie ( if they can ) their seven or thirteen pretended sacraments : in the mean time , the reformed church doth as clearly as the sun evidence that there are but two , and that these two are sufficient , seeing one of them , ( which is baptism ) is the sacrament of our spiritual birth , and entrance into the church . and the other ( which is the eucharist ) is the sacrament of our nourishment and growth , untill we attain unto the measure of the perfect stature of our lord jesus christ. besides , the reformed church hath no rules which teach vice : but the romish religion hath many rules which teach to disobey god in doing evil . such is the rule of the council of constance , that no faith is to be kept with hereticks . such is the doctrine which saith , the pope may dispense with oaths and vows ; i. t. may give a man leave to forswear himself , and not make good what he hath promised to god. such is the disobedience of children to their parents , authorized by the church of rome , when a child enters into a monastery or nunnery against his or her fathers will. such is the allowance of bawdy-houses , for which the pope receives a tribute out of rome it self . such is the revolting of subjects against their prince , when the pope dispenseth with them for the allegiance they have sworn to their king. such are the taxes in the popes chancery , wherein letters for absolution are given for every sin at a certain price : but offences done against the pope are always rated higher then sins against god. such is their calling marriage a great sacrament , that it might appertain to the church : and thus take from secular judges the cognizance of cases matrimonial . such is the order of canonists and scholasticks , which they have set up against the power of the civil law , which antiently maintained the power of the emperor and princes , and they have confirmed those canonists and their decretals to be unquestionable , thus as much as in them lies to annihilate the authority of the holy scriptures . such are their plae fraudes , pia mendacia , their aequivocations , their godly deceits and lies as are made and told for the advancement of religion and to stir up devotion . hence they bely their adversaries in their lives , doctrine and deaths , as we know in luther , calvin , beza , bishop king and others . hence they counterfeit false fathers , and by their index expurgatorius , make the true ones speak as they list : and thrust thousands of lies on the poor people , as the history of loretto , the dalmatian priest , who having his bowels plucked out of his body by the turks , took his guts in his hand ( if we will believe it ) and went many days to loretto , and there was cured . they also abuse the credulous people by their legends in latin , english , and other languages , that the power of st. patricks prayer ( as they write ) made a sheep bleat in the belly of him that stole it ; and of an heretick who was converted by seeing st. anthonies horse worship the host : with innumerable like ridiculous fopperies . obj. but may not bad actions happen in a good religion ? ans. this of the church of rome is not only a malady of manners , and these examples are not only bad actions , but they are prescribed laws and publick rules , which cannot consist with the doctrine of salvation . obj. but do not protestants hold a papist may be saved ? ans. we say as a man that hath the plague may live , but not by the plague ; so popery being the bane of christianity , and enmity to mans salvation , those that are saved among them , must be saved from popery , not by it : as famous bishop jewel , ( def. apol. par. c. 22. div. 1. ) saith , if we should content our selves to turn to the pope and to his errors , we should kindle gods wrath against us , and clog and condemn our souls for ever . and in another place he saith , so the case stood , that unless we left the pope , we could not come to christ. and doctor broughton , god can save a man at the last ; but , as gods word is infallible , so , said he , if a man lives and dyes in the faith of all the articles of the council of trent , he cannot be saved . doctor reynolds , another shining light of the university of oxford , in his verses upon the third conclusion handled in the schools november 3. 1579. saith , if that ye seek eternal life , see that you rome forsake . doctor whitaker , a man for his learning and judgment approved of the churches of christ abroad , and of this of england . we say , saith he , that the church of rome must be forsaken of all men that desire to be saved . and a little after he adds , that there can be no salvation hoped for in the church of rome . d. whitaker de eccles. cont . qu. 6. cap. 1. mr. perkins in his reformed cathol ▪ in the prolog . sect. saith , that all those that will be saved , must depart and separate from the faith and religion of the present church of rome : he also writ a treatise to prove a papist cannot go beyond a reprobate ; the same do all protestants affirm of all those in whom popery is predominant practically , and overcometh christianity . here is the judgment of those learned divines , and therein the consent of both the universities , oxford and cambridge ; for their books , especially the three last , were allowed for printing by the principal doctors of the several universities then resident in them : nor is it to be taken for the judgment of the universities only , but also of the whole church ; as it appears evidently by the continuance of it from time to time in the writings of those famous learned men , successively one after another . it was divers years proclaimed openly in the publick schools by dr. reynolds , ratified afterwards by dr. whitaker in his publick lectures of divinity , and confirmed by mr. perkins , and by every one of these published in print , with the approbation of our church and state. and this hath been the judgment and practice of the churches of god in all protestant countries for the space of more then an hundred years , to declare and testifie our separation from the church of rome in respect of faith and religion , to be a matter of absolute necessity : especially if we consider , that every parish throughout the whole land is enjoined to have the book of bishop jewel , with the rest of his works in their several churches for all men to read , and that they were all new printed to that end . obj. though that might be the judgment of the church of england in this case ; yet what is the sentiment of the church of ireland of the religion of the church of rome ? ans. doctor downham bishop of london-derry , in his sermon preached before the lord deputy of ireland , and the whole state , april 22. anno 1627. having taken for his text , luke 1. 74. in the midst of his sermon , openly read the protestation subscribed by the archbishop , and all the bishops of that kingdom . that 1. the religion of the papists , i. e. of rome , is superstitious and idolatrous . 2. their faith and doctrine erroneous and heretical . 3. their church in respect of both apostatical . to sell them therefore a toleration , is to set religion to sale , and with that their souls , which christ redeemed with his precious blood . to give them toleration , is to make our selves accessary to their abominations , and to the damnation of their souls . obj. hath not the church of rome the testimony of the fathers on her behalf ? ans. i shall answer this concerning rome as contradistinct from the reformed churches of christ , with the saying of a worthy divine , that roma nihil aliud quam vitia patrum retinet ; rome retains nothing but the errors of the fathers . obj. but hath not the church of rome had a long continued peace and prosperity , whereas the reformed churches have been still most of them in troubles and afflictions ? ans. 't is true , the church of christ is sometimes fluctuant as the ark of noah , sometimes moveable as the ark in the wilderness , and sometimes at rest as the ark in the temple . in persecution removes in peace , having this motto , premimur non opprimimum ▪ but the popish church though she saith in her heart , i sit a queen and am no widow , and shall see no sorrow , therefore shall her plagues come in one day , death , mourning and famine , and she shall be utterly burnt with fire ; for strong is the lord god who judgeth her . as she hath fallen culpably , so shall she fall penally , like that of jericho , which can never be re-edified , as sybilla long since foretold ; tota eris in cineres , quasi nunquam roma fuisses . when the wars began in germany , anno 1619. a massy stone fell down upon a great brass image of st. peter , that had tu es petrus , &c. fairly embossed upon it , standing in st. peters church in rome , and so shattered it to pieces , that not a letter of that sentence ( whereon rome founds her claim ) was left whole to be read , saving this one piece of the sentence , aedificabo ecclesiam meam , i will build my church . this was left fair and entire . obj. but are not those of the church of rome true catholicks ? ans. christians were termed catholicks , ex obedientiae omnium mandatorum dei : from their obedience to the whole faith of christ in doctrine and manners : and he that wilfully offends in one , is guilty of all ; and therefore they that through nesarious pride forsake and contumeliously reject , or prophanely alter any point of the orthodoxal faith , or audaciously add any thing thereunto , are not to be reputed catholicks but rather antichrists . obj. wherein doth the church of rome directly contradict , oppose or alter the express word of god ? ans. in many more particulars , i shall instance a few . first , they worship angels , contrary to the express prohibition of saint paul , col. 11. 2. secondly , they adore the cross , and the figure of it , with adoration of latria , ( which is the term whereby the soveraign adoration , wherewith they adore god , is expressed ; which is directly and formally against the express words of our lord jesus christ , thou shalt worship the lord thy god , and him only shalt thou serve . thirdly , they make graven images ; and resemblances of things in heaven , and bow down to them , and worship them ; beside they make images of god himself , and represent him both in carved work and painting , which are used in their churches , and are received almost everywhere , as bellarmin confesseth in lib. 2. of images , c. 8. and is not this contrary to this law which god himself uttered with his own mouth , and wrote with his own finger ; thou shalt not make to thy self any graven image , nor the likeness of any thing that is in heaven above , thou shalt not bow down to them , nor worship them ; and also contrary to what god expressly forbids in deut. 4. and isay , chap. 40. and this they audaciously do , notwithstanding the penalty that is added to such : vid. confounded be all they that worship carved images , psalm 97. 7. fourthly , the romish church commands ( under pretence of religion ) on certain days to abstain from certain meats , and forbids marriage to priests , and thus directly opposes st. paul , and expresly teaches what this great apostle calls a doctrine of devils , col. 2. 2 cor. 10. 2 tim. 4. 1 , 2 , 3. fifthly , the popish church professes to believe that jesus christ is on earth in respect of his humane nature , which is contrary to what he himself saith in st. john ch . 18. & 16. and contrary to the express words of st. peter , acts 3. that the heaven must receive him , until the times of the restitution of all things . sixthly , the romish church teaches that christ is offered often in the sacrament of the ma's , which directly contradicts the apostle , who expresly saith , and without exception , that he is not offered often . seventhly , papists teach the mass is an unbloody sacrifice , and yet propitiatory for the remission of the sins of the quick and dead ; which directly opposeth the apostle , who saith in express words , without shedding of blood there is no remission . and where there is remission of sins , there is no more offering for sin , but in the sacrifice which jesus christ offered to god on the cross , there is remission of sin , therefore there is no more offering for sin , and consequently it is false that the mass is an offering for sin , and a propitiatory sacrifice . eighthly , our lord jesus christ in the institution of his holy supper , presents the cup to all those to whom he had distributed the bread , saying to them , drink ye all of this , &c. but the church of rome forbids the people the use of the cup of the lord , and therefore directly and formally opposeth our lord christ , and his apostle st. paul , who ordains in express words , let a man examine himself , and so let him drink of that cup. papists believe and teach that the souls of those that dye in the lord , are tormented after this life in a fire which they call purgatory , which is directly contrary to the holy ghost , who declares in express terms , that blessed are the dead which dye in the lord , from henceforth , yea saith the spirit , that they may rest from their labours , and their works do follow them ; and against the express words of the book of wisdom ( which was canonized by trent council ) the souls of the just are in the hand of god , and no torment shall touch them . the popish church ordains a prodigious number of festivals , against the express clause of that law which the soveraign law-giver hath given . six days shalt thou labour ; whence we argue thus , whosoever forbids people to work six days of the week on pain of a mortal sin , doth manifestly set himself above god , who expresly permits us to work six days : but the pope and his prelates do forbid people to work six days of the week on pain of a mortal sin . therefore the pope and his prelates do manifestly set themselves above god. papists say that the works of regenerate men are christs works in them , not their own , and as christs they save , and so are saved by christs merits : whereas st. paul saith , we are not saved by such works as god hath ordained regenerate men should walk in , eph. 2.10 . and st. paul opposeth all works done in matter of justification and salvation to the grace of christ , rom. 11.6 . phil. 3.8 . rom. 3. 27. this their finest web being so clearly cut in sunder by those plain texts , they grosly dare avouch and teach , that a man is saved by works , and can merit the eternal felicity of heaven , and degrees of glory and bliss , and thus directly fight against the doctrine of the son of god , and of his blessed apostles , luke 17. when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you , say we are unprofitable servants ; we have done that which was our duty to do . and ephes. 2. by grace ye are saved through faith , and that not of your selves , it is the gift of god ; not of works , lest any man should boast . and in rom. 6.11 . the wages of sin is death , but the gift of god is eternal life through jesus christ our lord. and if it be by grace , then it is no more of works , otherwise grace is no more grace ; but if it be of works , then it is no more of grace , otherwise work is no more work . and thus papists works become not only unprofitable unto them , but plainly damnable , yea and blasphemous , because they ruinate the very foundation of our faith , and make frustrate the all and alone sufficient sacrifice of our redemption , viz. the death and passion of our lord jesus christ. shall we then call those catholiques , or think such men believe in christ , and are christians indeed ? when st. ambrose saith , non videtur ab his exhiberi fides christo , à quibus evacuatur passio ejus , atque distrahitur . it seems not that such men do believe in christ , who go about to frustrate and distract his passion . obj. is not then a papist a true christian ? ans. no. qua● papist . but as a thief is a true man in regard of his essence , as he is a creature indued with reason , but not a true man in regard of his honesty or goodness : so the popish church is a true church , in regard of the essence of a church , ( as a church is a company which profess christ and are baptized ) but it is a false church in respect of its heretical doctrine . obj. but can a man belong to the visible church of christ , and to the synagogue of satan ? ans. they maybe of the visible church in regard of some part of their outward profession , who in regard of their inward disposition of mind , and of their external conversation , yea and of the greatest part of their outward profession also , are hateful unto god , and execrable in the eyes of the founder part of the visible church of christ. so may a legion of devils incarnated , if they will profess the name of christ , and be admitted by the baptism of christ , may be of the visible church : so was judas an apostle and a traytor too , but the more wretched because an apostle . so the pope pretends to be the vicar of christ , though his enemy , and the more wicked , because he pretends to be christ's vicar . so the church of rome is a church , and the pope antichrist who hath impudently pearched , and with all ungodliness erected his seat therein . as the scripture teacheth us that antichrist must sit in the temple of god : but it is not possible that such should belong to the mystical church , which is the whole company of gods elect in heaven , earth , and not yet born ▪ in which invisible or universal church alone is salvation : because that only consists of the true servants of christs , and such as are christians indeed . obj. but what is the main difference betwixt christianity and popery ? ans. christian religion doth most honour god , and most humble man ; but the sum of popery is to disenthrone god , and to deifie man. obj. wherein doth popery principally consist ? ans. in merit , mediation , satisfaction , supererogation , and pardon , which is an humane invented religion , or an antichristian superstructure , to undermine , and as much as possible , to overthrow all that is truly christian. this popery , the very word of a mediator , doth sufficiently refute ; for if a man can merit , mediate , satisfie , supererogate , pardon , and do all himself , what needs he either saviour or mediator ? beside , the holy scripture gives us a general rule , which is alone sufficient to make us reject the mass , purgatory , papal indulgences , invocation of saints , veneration of reliques , adoration of crosses , and all humane invented traditions . for it tells us , that they worship god in vain , who teach for doctrines the commandements of men , mat. 5.9 . and to such as add or detract from gods commandments , cursed be he that addeth or detracteth from the least of these sayings , rev. 22. and to such as create new articles of faith , praeter quam or contra quam , beside or contrary to the doctrine of the scripture ; if an angel from heaven preach any other gospel then that you have received , let him be accursed , gal. 1.8 . obj. how came this popery to be so greatly confirmed ? ans. to establish this mock religion or cheat upon christianity , the popes at last forged that council or rather conventicle of trent ; and there added numbers of new articles of faith , having these pillars to prop her sandy foundation , viz. allurements , and all vain-glorious enchanting enticements on the one hand ; and all manner of prodigious tortures by fire , sword , &c. on the other . trent for romes last support , was forced to borrow of lucifer his main engins , and for executioners the jesuites and the prati de l'inferni , as they are termed in spain , i.e. the holy fathers of the horrid inquisition , these are the perpetrators of romes bloody bulls . this popery is that which is generally preached in spain , italy , &c. [ vide sands survey of the western religion ] and seldom is christianity , except on certain days , and then with that mixture of popish vanities , enough to destroy the good seed of the gospel of christ. for refusing and denying this trentine popery ( but for denying nothing of christianity ) have so many thousands of orthodox christians been massacred , drowned , burned , in all parts of europe , by that antichristian romish hierarchy . obj. how is it that the world could be so long deceived by rome ? ans. because the lambs horns were upon the head of antichrist , and if a traytor carry the colours of a prince in war , all the common souldiers stock to him , and fight under his banner , till the traytor be known and the treason be discovered . so the popes of rome pretending the common principles of faith and manners , and giving themselves out to be colour-bearers to jesus christ , without which they could not so easily have insinuated themselves into the hearts of the world , most of the western churches , whom they had wrought by policy and power , flocked unto them : but when their pretences were discovered , and we would no longer take their parts against christ , then the popes made a faction and head against us in that council of trent , and excommunicated us , as if it were our fault that would not drink their poison , and not theirs who were so trayterous and wicked to force it upon us . obj. what are the marks of antichristian papists ? ans. they are such as have their heads and hearts poisoned , rejecting the word of god , and taking pleasure in falshood , which is manifested two ways : first , by an over-eager pursuit of the things of antichrist without examination ; as if they should say , we will be thus , because we will be thus , doting upon a spirit of infallibility : secondly , by cruel killing and sacrificing all opposers with fire and sword , ( idolatry being naturally cruel ) of such the apostle saith , they shall be damned . obj. have all papists been and shall be damned ? ans. when the church was low in the eyes of the world , then as god gave his people less , so he required less at their hands , and such as had the knowledge of the belief , the ten commandments , the lords prayer , and the sacraments , these being speciously in the church of rome ( though with hideous corruptions , as is before-mentioned ) and having hearts willing to be informed in the truth , when our provident god should offer opportunities , with purposes and indeavours to know and do aright , and holy obedience to what was known , and being ignorant , or at least not so fully stated in the pernicious errors of the popish corruptions , though they have been in that church , yet were not of it , as many of our fathers from age to age have been . such in these qualifications might be saved , but such are not acknowledged by the pope to be right catholicks . here note gods power and faithfulness in all ages , in singling out his servants in the very tents of antichrist , and delivering them from the power of hell and darkness ▪ but such as worship the beast and his image , and are in inward fellowship and mystery with him , being by wilfulness and resolution as it were embowelled in that state . of such the holy ghost saith , they shall drink of the wine of the wrath of god. these latter only are owned by the pope to be his true catholicks , and not the former . you may here see the difference between the antient christian catholicks , and the new roman catholicks , and withall consider how vigilant and careful satan is to distinguish and appropriate his own vassals , that they may also partake with him of his just reward . obj. but do not papists believe in christ , and hold it the surest way to put their confidence in god for salvation ? ans. yes , but withall that men may put their confidence also in their own and in other mens works ; bellar. 5. c. 7. de justificat . and by this confidence in the creature , they presently overturn all true confidence in the creator . beside they teach , that we must not only believe but apply to our selves the promise of everlasting life . but mark the deceit in applying all , for this must not be done , say they , by faith assuring us of our salvation , but only by hope in likelyhood and conjectural . here you may see that great point in the mystery of iniquity , for by this wavering hope and uncertain application of the promise of salvation to our selves , they overturn half the doctrine of the gospel , for as in coloured words they seem to agree with the true christian church in the doctrine of faith ; so indeed they deny and abolish the substance thereof , that is , the particular and certain application of christ crucified unto our selves . obj. how then do papists believe the truths of faith ? ans. papists believe the truths of faith not distinctly in themselves , but in their common principle , wherein all things to be in this manner believed are ( as they hold ) contained , and that not so much to be the holy scriptures , but absolutely their church . now their church to affirm it self , cries up their traditions , and these ( not gods word ) do they give for the rule of their creatures , and yet these traditions must stand and fall at the pleasure of the pope . thus their church flies to their invented traditions for bottom , and their traditions , church and faith fly to the pope to center all in his personal infallibility , and notwithstanding one pope can condemn another for an heretick , and yet every pope must be still infallible ! and as dr. harden avouches , can dispense with all things against the law of nature , against the apostles creed , against the new and old testament , and above general councils . so that the pope exalts himself above all that is called god , for god in the creation made but creatures , but the pope can make as many gods as he list . secondly , he make himself of more authority then god , because he will not have gods word to be authentical without his allowance ; but what he saith , however contrary to the text , must be ipsissimum dei verbum . beside this head of antichristian heresies assumes to himself the title of universal pastor , rex regum , dominus dominantium , admirabilis , leo de tribu judae , radix david . his doctrine is also that papa habet imperium in angelos & daemones ; and is not this to make himself a god ? is not this that beast full of the names of blasphemy ? and as his majesty of blessed memory observed most prudently , that there is no church , state , nor man that hath been since the penning of the revelations , to whom those things foretold by the apostle from the mouth of the lord jesus , can in any reasonable fort agree , but the church and pope of rome alone . i might add much , but will only instance the sayings of pius quintus ( recited by cornel ▪ à lap. in numb . 11.11 . ) when i was first in orders , i had some good hopes of salvation ; when i was made a cardinal , i doubted ; but now that i am made a pope , i do almost despair . and that saying of pope marcellus the second , wherein he seems to be pretty ingenious for striking his hand upon the table , he uttered these words , non video quomodo qui hunc locum altissimum teneant , salvari possunt , i see not how any pope can be saved . now let us cast our eyes upon gods word and promise , and firmly believe if agag be to be slain , god is raising up some samuel to do it ; yea let us cast our eyes upon gods work already , and we shall see him gone a great way in the accomplishing of his word , whereby we may strengthen our faith in that which remaineth . for how hath the word preached discovered him to be that man of sin ? detected his frauds and impostures , with which for many ages he deluded the blind world . how are his bulls and excommunications esteemed as wind ? how do all reformed churches detest his antichristian usurped power over the scripture , churches , and mens consciences ? how do many princes despise his claws over them ? how weak are all their popish endeavours to prevent final ruine ? viz. sophistry , knotty distinctions to hide and delude the plain sense of scripture , threatnings , treacheries , machivilian contrivances , wars , treasons , murders , massacres , powder-plots , firing of towns and cities , &c. lo these are the inseparable marks of popery , and the brands of their devillish religion . and these do but hasten their incurable destruction , rendring them odious to christian states , princes and people , yea and to turks and infidels . certainly the date of her reign is almost out , and the time draweth on apace , wherein both she and her king abaddon shall be laid in the dust . that man of sin , the son of perdition , &c. who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called god , or that is worshipped ; so that he is as god , sitteth in the temple of god , shewing himself that he is god. 2 thess. 2. 3 , 4. the gospel now being so restored , and that antichrist of rome so clearly manifested , wo be unto them that delight in the whore , they shall be tormented with fire and brimstone before the holy angels and the lamb , and the smoke of their torment shall ascend for evermore , and they shall have no rest day nor night who worship the beast and his image . seeing then the followers of antichrist shall be damned , let not our souls enter into their secret . as the wicked man shall not meddle with a christians joy , so let not a good man meddle with antichristian wo. but what are the doctrines of the church of rome that are against the foundation of truth and salvation ? they are all those which draw from jesus christ that honour that is due unto him as saviour of the world. which are , papal monarchy , this undermines and opposes christs kingly office. traditions , as the object of faith , papal infallibility , &c. these undermine and oppose christs prophetick office. justification by merits , adoration of the mass , and all other idolatrizing points of antichrist , these undermine and oppose christs priestly office. to take pleasure in , and to be obstinately given over unto these things , cannot stand with salvation . come hither and i will shew thee the judgment of the great whore , &c. rev. 17.1 . babylon the great is fallen , &c. cap. 18.2 . come out of her my people , that ye be not partakers of her sins , and that ye receive not of her plagues , v. 4. epigramma g.b. de roma & papa . non ego romulea miror quod pastor in urbe sceptra gerat , pastor conditor urbis erat . quumque lupae gentis nutritus lacte sit autor , non ego romulea miror in urbe lupos , haec tantum superat nostrum admiratio captum , quomodo securum praestet ovile lupus . the same translated . it is not strange a shepherd reigns in rome , for he that built it was a shepherds groom ; nor is it strange that wolves in rome abound , he suck't a wolf that did the city found : but this is strange , and far above my skill , how wolves should keep the flock secure from ill . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a48824-e150 quinquecclesiae is a city in hungary , called in german funskirchin , in turkish peri●hen or petschen . notes for div a48824-e360 object . ans. object . ans. popish abuse of lords prayer . obj. ans. 2. of the creed 3. of the dec●… obj. ans. 4. of the holy scriptures . ●… abuse of ●uity . ●…e no mother ●…e eldest sister 〈◊〉 neither . obj. ans. obj. ans. papists the first separatists . popish guiltine●… protestant ministers have a calling , popish p●… have no calling popish mass n●●… ●…r sacrament 〈◊〉 . ●●●ish religion ●●…hes vice and ●●●ish abuse of ●●●riage . ●heir abuse of civil law. ●●●ish lies . whether a papist may be saved ? romes destruction . papists no true catholicks . papish gross idolatry . popish presumptions and impudencies . popish blasphemies ▪ colos. 2. gal. 4.9 10 , 11. papists no true christians . the difference between christianity and popery . popery a cheat upon christianity . the marks of popish antichristians marks to know christian catholicks from roman catholicks . popish deceits . the pope the bottom of romish faith. the pope anichrist . popish doctrines against the foundation of truth and salvation . a sermon preached before the house of lords, on november 5, 1680 by ... william lord bishop of st. asaph. lloyd, william, 1627-1717. 1680 approx. 54 kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from 23 1-bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : 2004-03 (eebo-tcp phase 1). a48851 wing l2712 estc r20309 12402612 ocm 12402612 61301 this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons 0 1.0 universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase 1, no. a48851) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set 61301) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, 1641-1700 ; 767:32) a sermon preached before the house of lords, on november 5, 1680 by ... william lord bishop of st. asaph. lloyd, william, 1627-1717. [7], 39 p. printed by m.c. for henry brome ..., london : 1680. includes bibliographical references. attacking roman catholics. reproduction of original in huntington library. created by converting tcp files to tei p5 using tcp2tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between 1473 and 1700 available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the 25,363 texts created during phase 1 of the project have been released into the public domain as of 1 january 2015. anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. 5% (or 5 pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of 100 instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level 4 of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p5, characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng catholic church -controversial literature. church of england -sermons. bible. -o.t. -psalms cxxiv, 1-3 -sermons. sermons, english -17th century. 2003-11 tcp assigned for keying and markup 2003-11 aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images 2003-12 judith siefring sampled and proofread 2003-12 judith siefring text and markup reviewed and edited 2004-02 pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion die lunae 8. novemb. 1680. ordered by the lords spiritual and temporal in parliament assembled , that the thanks of this house be and are hereby given to the lord bishop of st. asaph , for his pains in preaching before their lordships on friday last , being the anniversary thanks giving-day to almighty god for the deliverance of this kingdom from the gun-powder-treason : and his lordship is hereby desired to cause his sermon then preached to be printed and published . jo. browne , cler. parl. a sermon preached before the house of lords , on november 5. 1680. by the right reverend father in god , william lord bishop of st. asaph . london , printed by m. c. for henry brome , at the gun in st. paul's church-yard , 1680. to the lords spiritual and temporal assembled in parliament . my lords , while i am paying my obedience to your lordships commands for the printing of this sermon , i humbly crave leave to say something for the clearing of my self from a prejudice , which , if true , would render me unfit to be so far owned by your lordships , as to be admitted to preach before you ; and having done it , to be commanded to print my sermon . for i cannot but take notice , that both before and since i received that honour from you , i have been tax'd as being not protestant enough , on account of a book , called , considerations touching the true way to suppress popery in this kingdom . how far i was concerned in that treatise , the preface to it sufficiently declares . the book it self was publish'd in michaelmas term * 1676. just two years before the popish plot was discovered . the design of it was proposed to me as the likeliest remedy at that time against the same disease under which we are now labouring for life , or death : but it was before things were come to such a dangerous crisis . i saw it was much the same design that many of the best and most eminent protestants , particularly q. elizabeth and k. james , had at several times countenanced , and put in practice with very good success : they were , next to the uniting of protestants , for the dividing of papists , whose chief advantage hitherto has been their union , such as it is , and our needless divisions . but at that time i thought it more proper and seasonable than ever , upon the best iudgment that i could make of their and our circumstances . and i have some reason to think i was not mistaken in this . for now i see that at the very time when this was brought to me , and while i was forming my thoughts upon it , the papists themselves were in a great apprehension of this very thing , as being of all other ways the most likely to blast their hopes , and to preserve us from that ruine which they were then bringing upon us . thus coleman * at that time wrote to the popes internuncio , † there is but one thing ( saith he ) to be feared , ( whereof i have a great apprehension , ) that can hinder the success of our designs ; which is , a division among the catholicks themselves . how dividing them ? it follows , by propositions to the parliament to accord their conjunction to those that require it , — on conditions prejudicial to the authority of the pope ; — and so to persecute the rest of them with more appearance of justice , and ruine the one half of them more easily than the whole body at once . and to shew that coleman was not singular herein , cardinal howard * delivers this as their iudgment at rome , where , if any where , they are infallible ; division of catholicks will be the easiest way for protestants to destroy them . this being said for the design from so good authority , i have this farther to say for my self , that only the last part of that book was my own , in which i did justifie the reformation of this church ; and what i wrote in that part , i am sure no papist can disprove , and i think no protestant has cause to complain of it . i thank god i have in this whole matter the witness of a goad conscience ; and i hope likewise your lordships good opinion of my honest zeal to maintain the protestant religion against popery . for a farther testimony whereof , and in obedience to your lordships commands , i humbly present this following discourse . my lords , i am your lordships most humble and most obedient servant , w. asaph . a sermon on psalm cxxiv . 1 , 2 , 3. verses . 1. if it had not been the lord who was on our side ; now may israel say ; 2. if it had not been the lord who was on our side , when men rose up against us ; 3. then they had swallowed us up quick , when their wrath was kindled against us . what deliverance it was , upon which david made this psalm , at this distance of time we cannot certainly know . but whatsoever it was , this we find , it was of the people of israel : and whensoever it happened , we see they remembred it afterwards . it was the manner of gods people to remember a deliverance , many years , and ages , after they had received it ; and when that particular deliverance was forgotten , yet still they kept up their thanksgiving to god , in a psalm ; which being once composed for that former mercy , might be used ever after upon any other like occasion . the deliverance of our fathers on this day was as great as ever any was that god gave the jews ; and we come now to celebrate it , not many ages after , but while some are yet living that remember it ; and we that have been born since , are as sure of it , as if we had been then living our selves : and yet , for fear it should be forgotten in our age , god hath been pleased to put us in remembrance , by suffering the same enemy to put us in fresh dangers , and then sending us new deliverances . if all this will not affect us with a sense of what we owe to god for his mercy , we are so far from being like gods ancient people , that we deserve to be given up to strong delusions , to a belief of popish legends , of a cecil's plot , and such like sensless fictions ; which none could give credit to , that had not first subdued his understanding to the belief of any thing , how incredible soever , by the belief of transubstantiation . but if we may give any heed to our senses , and to our reason , if we may believe the testimony of all men then living , if we may judge from our own experience of the like designs since ; ( these i think are all the ways that we have to come to the knowledge of such things , and it were easie to shew that all these ways we are sure of the gunpowder-treason . ) as we cannot but think with horror of the danger that the king and kingdom were then in , so we cannot reflect on their deliverance but with the greatest admiration : we cannot think of it , especially on this day , without a thankful acknowledgment to god , in such words as his antient people have left us in this text : if it had not been the lord who was on our side , now may israel say ; if it had not been the lord who was on our side , when men rose up against us ; then they had swallowed us up quick , when their wrath was kindled against us . there are five things to be considered in these words , which , when they are explained , will all be found applicable to our case . here is first , the wrath and malice of the enemies of gods people ; and that against israel , as being the people of god. 't is exprest in the last words of my text , they were wrathfully displeased at us . gods enemies are so at all times , never otherwise ; but at some times they shew it more than at other ; and that is , when they are ready to put their malice in execution ; which is the second thing in my text. secondly , their conspiracy , their attempt to execute their malice , express'd in these words , when they rose up against us . thirdly , the extreme danger of gods people at the time of such an attempt ; which was so great in the israelites case , that they acknowledged , if it had not been for god , they had been swallowed up quick . the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 here used , is either whole , or raw , or alive ; and it is interpreted all these ways by the jewish writers . they had eaten us whole , without chewing , saith solomon-melech . they had devoured us raw , saith david-kinchi . they had swallowed us up alive , saith aben-ezra , as the earth swallowed up corah , dathan , and abiram , that went down alive into the pit. this phrase , as it signifies the greatness , and nearness , of that danger that comes sometimes on gods church ; so it signifies also the eager passionate hopes of their enemies . they had swallowed us up quick , ( saith israel in my text : ) they were in great haste to have us in their bellies : that they could not forbear us till we were dead , as one of them renders it ; that they fell upon us raw , they could not stay the dressing of us , saith another ; that they were for swallowing us up whole , they had not patience for chewing , saith a third . surely , great was their haste , when their wrath was thus kindled against us ; and great was our danger , if god had not been on our side . that is the fourth thing to be considered in these words . fourthly , it is the providence of god , that watches over his people , that takes part with them against their implacable enemies , that delivers them from danger , even when things are come to extremity . lastly , here is a due return to god of thankfulness from his people ; which as they have cause for at all times , so especially upon such a deliverance , on every thought or mention of it . now may israel say , with mouth and heart ; privately , and in the congregation ; if the lord had not been on our side , what would have become of us ? and now , what shall we render to him , for being thus on our side ? saying is put for doing in scripture-language ; all gods words are actions , and he expects something like this from us : he expects that our actions should answer our words ; that what we say in our thanksgivings , we should do like it in all the course of our lives ; and that we glorifie god , not only by offering praise , but by ordering our conversation aright . here are five things observed . first , the malice of wicked men ; they are always wrathfully displeased at us . secondly , their endeavours to execute it ; when they rise up against us . thirdly , the danger of gods people ; that they shall be swallowed up quick . fourthly , gods providence over them , in appearing on their side . and lastly , their thankfulness to god in their grateful acknowledgment of it . of all these , there are two things chiefly to be considered , which i have made choice of for my subject at this time . the first is , the malicious designs of gods enemies for the destruction of his people . the second is , the providence of god , watching over his people to deliver them from his and their enemies . both these i shall consider ; first , in other instances : and then in the gunpowder-treason : 't is that which perhaps of all others is the greatest that ever was ; 't is that which particularly concerns us this day . i shall shew therefore ; first , how great a danger it was , how near the point of execution , how then god appeared for our deliverance , how wonderful a deliverance it was ; and then , how we ought to shew our sense of it , in our zeal for that religion which god was so concerned for , and in adorning it by a life that may be exemplary to all other christians . the first thing that i observe , is , the malice and spitefulness of wicked men , the enemies of god ; their proneness to hurt , and to destroy , his church , and all true members of it . this , as soon as i name it , is confest on all hands . for all parties take themselves to be the church of god : and the worst sects among christians ( in my opinion ) are they that take themselves to be the only true church . grant but this , that they are the only true church , and they will not stick with us for my doctrine . they will acknowledge it , and tell us we are instances of it ; that the enemies of god , hate his church , and endeavour to destroy it . but because this will signifie nothing , till it appear who are the church of god , or at least who are the enemies of it ; i shall determine that by bringing it to this issue ; that they who are most given to hate , and to destroy others , especially those others who differ from them in religion , they are not the church of god , or at least , they are so far corrupt in that particular . i might say this of men , without any relation to the church : the worse they are in other respects , the more prone they are generally to hate those that are better than themselves ; and to shew it , by doing them all the mischief they are able . whereas on the other hand , good men are of gracious dispositions : they may be displeased , but not wrathfully ( as it is in my text : ) they are not prone to do mischief , but are ready to do good , even to enemies : and the better they are , the more they excell in these dispositions . a good man is the only true image of god , who is good , and does good to all his creatures , even to sinners ; who is so far from willing the death of a sinner , that he does not willingly grieve the children of men . whereas on the other hand , it is the property of the devil , to hate , and to hurt , and to destroy all that come in his way . he is therefore called abaddon and apollyon in the revelations . he is truly so . he was a murderer from the beginning , and will be so even to the end of the world . and by these characters of god , and the devil , by their proneness to do good on the one hand , by their proneness to do mischief on the other ; by these we are to distinguish men ( as the apostle tells us , ) 1 john 3. 10. by this the children of god are manifested , and the children of the devil . it holds , we see , in particular persons ; but it is much more visible in societies . and to this i come next ; that , of societies of men , christians , of all other , are most averse from ways of violence and blood ; especially from using any such ways upon the account of religion : and among christian churches , where they differ among themselves , if either of them use those ways upon the account of religion , they give a strong presumption against themselves that they are not truly christians . there is reason for this , because , we know that christ gave love for the character by which his disciples were to be known , john 13. 35. by this shall all men know that you are my disciples , if you have love one to another . and left men should unchristen others first , that they may hate them , and destroy them afterwards ; christ enlarged his precept of love , and extended it even to enemies ; and not only to ours , but to the enemies of our religion , matth. 5. 43 , 44. and to enable us to live according to this precept , he hath given us his spirit , whereof this is one of the fruits . for among the fruits of the spirit , is not only 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; not only the love of the brethren , but the love of strangers , even of enemies ; as the apostle shews , 2 pet. 1. 5. on the contrary , hatred is one of the works of the flesh : and they that have not the spirit of christ to subdue it , are said to be hateful , and hating one another , tit. 3. 3. especially to his disciples , christ saith , the world hates you , john 15. 19. you , particularly , as being christians . and even among christians , he that saith he is in the light and hates his brother , his fellow christian , he is in darkness still , ( saith the apostle ) 1 iohn 2. 9. he hath a great want of that light which belongeth to a christian. to see the use of this character , let any one consider , how the christians were treated by the enemies of their religion ; and then let him consider , how they used their enemies , when they were in power : he shall find that darkness differs not more from light , than the persecuting genius of those enemies , from the calm gentle spirit of christians . i say , when they were in power ; for there is the tryal . 't is not much to be heeded , what men do , when they are under authority . when the jews had the power to wreak their malice upon christians , they both killed the lord iesus , and his apostles , and all christians where they durst for fear of the romans ; they never ceased , till wrath come upon them to the uttermost : nor even then , for their malice lasts still , it burns inward , and they are not able to keep it from breaking out , sometimes , as it did here very lately , upon an occasion of which i shall say no more in this place . the heathens likewise shewed their malice against christians , in divers cruel bloody persecutions , in the very infancy of our religion ; and when , the blood of martyrs being the seed of the church , it grew up so wonderfully , and was so vastly numerous , that it seemed an endless work to destroy it ; yet there were those heathen princes that despaired not of it , even then : especially diocletan , and his colleague , who killed many thousands of christians , only upon the account of religion . when the government changed , as it did in few years after the last persecution ; and when christianity was come to be the established religion ; there was no heathen put to death , nor no jew , upon the account of religion ; till popery prevailed , which was as bloody as judaism or heathenism . this calm gentle temper of the primitive christians , which so gloriously shined forth when they came to be in power , was that which lay hid in them all the times of persecution . then , they could not shew it , but in their profession : and so indeed they always did , as appears by tertullian and others , who used to fay , and glory in it , christianus nullius hostis , a christian is no mans enemy , a christian can be no mans enemy : do what you will to him , injure him , slander him , strip and torture him , kill all others of his religion before his eyes ; and then let him loose , and give him power , place him in your circumstances , he cannot revenge himself upon you . what! that humane nature could bear such things without any resentment ! it was not credible ; their enemies could not believe this ; ( none could believe it , that did not feel it in himself ) till they came to see it ; and then all men believed it , and acknowledged it to be the singular excellency of the christian religion . but as our holy religion excels all others in this admirable temper ; so by this we may usually judge who they are that excel among christian churches , when there happens any difference between them ; whether touching the faith , or the terms of communion . they that were the more fierce , they generally had the worst cause . as when the difference was about the keeping of easter ; it was chiefly between the roman and the asian churches : the asians were content , that every church should keep it at what time they pleas'd , so themselves might be allowed to keep it as they had always done ; for they held the precise time to be ( as truly it was ) an indifferent thing : the romans would not allow that , they were for imposing on other churches , and for breaking communion with them that would not receive their impositions ; which , as it argued in them a proud and wrathful disposition ; so even by that it appeared they had the worst of the cause . in like manner , in that heat between cyprian and stephen , where neither of them was right in the cause ; for ( as it commonly happens when men contend ) the truth lay between them ; yet sure st. cyprian was in the right in this , in holding that this cause was not sufficient to break communion between churches : and there pope stephen was in the wrong ; for he did break communion about it ; he denied jus hospitii , he would not receive a message , he would not hear of an accommodation . i forbear to repeat the ill terms he gave st. cyprian , you may read them in the end of firmilian's epistle . we all allow that cyprian was truly a saint . 't is well they own him such in the roman church . but how they can make that pope so too , i do not understand ; for it is plain , that to his death he would not allow that saint to be a christian. the great power of error , in moving mens passions , and enraging them against the professors of truth ; and the power of true religion , in composing mens passions on the other hand ; both these did appear , as soon as ever a heresie came to have publick authority on its side . it was the arian heresie that was newly broke forth before the council of nice , and that council was called to suppress it ; which they did , by no other force , but putting arians out of their bishopricks ; they could not think hereticks fit to be trusted with the cure of souls ; but otherwise , as to temporal things , i do not find that they inflicted any kind of punishment : but when the arians came to have the power in their hands , when theirs was come to be the imperial religion ; then , depriving was nothing , banishment was the least that they inflicted ; in many places they proceeded to blood , which was never drawn on the other side by the orthodox christians ; except once in a popular tumult in alexandria ; where george the intruding bishop was torn in pieces ; and yet that was rather by heathens than by christians , as ammian himself a heathen writer confesses . except that , ( if it need be excepted , ) i do not remember any other instance , of an arian that was put to death in those days upon the account of religion . and to shew that likewise in case of schism , the best christians always kept the best temper : besides those instances i have already given , which perhaps are not so proper to prove this , because when they happened , christianity was not the established religion : when it was established by law , then there happened that famous schism of the donatists , which gave an evident tryal of this . with what folly and fury did they break out of the church ? with what insolence and perverseness did they behave themselves towards it ? what out-rages did they commit ? nay , what did they not commit ? even to blood , in the circumcellions case ; while the catholicks on the other hand , except in that case , which forced rigor from them in their own defence , treated them with all calmness and gentleness . they called them brethren in their writings ; they wooed them to be friends , and offered them terms of communion ; such as none would have offered , but passionate lovers of peace ; such as none would have refused , but the obstinate enemies of it : and yet all this while , the catholicks had the government on their side ; which since those schismaticks could not get from them , they took a course to destroy it , by letting in the vandals into the roman empire . i have shewn so much of this diabolical spirit , in every sort of the enemies of the church of god ; not only in heathens and unbelievers , without ; but also in hereticks and schismaticks within : and i have shewn so much of the christian spirit on the other hand , the great patience and meekness of gods people in dealing with all sorts of enemies : that considering what advantage they have who lay about them with rage , against those that stand still , and are only ready to suffer , one would wonder , that long since true religion had not been destroyed , or driven out of the world . but to this i have to answer , ( and this is my second doctrine ; ) that notwithstanding all this rage and malice of the adversaries , and notwithstanding all this meekness of christians ; yet still god is concerned for the christian religion ; and he shews it by sending such seasonable deliverances , as preserve it , often from hurt , and always from utter destruction . destroyed it shall never be . for so much christ declared before he built his church : when he promised to make his apostles the foundation-stones in it , saying to peter in particular upon thee will i build my church : he added this promise , that the gates of hell should not prevail against it . and so to all his apostles at parting , when he was about to be taken up into heaven ; he promised , for all that , i will be with you even to the end of the world . if christ be with his church according to his promise , that is enough to secure it against utter destruction . i speak now as to the catholick , or universal church ; for there is no such promise given to particular churches . they may be destroyed and perish for their sins . we see many are so already ; almost all that were planted in the apostles times : the church of ierusalem , where our religion began ; the church of antioch , where we were first called christians ; the six churches , to which st. paul writ his epistles ; the seven to which st. iohn writ in his revelations : where are they ? scarce a remnant remains : most of them are quite perished from the earth . this is gods judgment upon them for their sins : a judgment which god threatned long since , that if they did not repent , he would take away their candlestick from them : a judgment so dreadfully executed to warn us , that unless we repent , we shall all likewise perish . but then , if we do repent , we shall not perish : this we know , for an exception strengthens a rule . we know that they which keep up the power of religion , shall find it a strong band between them and god ; by which , as we oblige our selves to him , not to leave him nor forsake him ; so he obligeth himself to us , that he will not leave us nor forsake us . and therefore howsoever , for our lesser transgressions , he may punish our offences with a rod , and our sin with scourges : nevertheless his loving kindness will he not utterly take from us , nor suffer his truth to fail . nay , in this case , if he suffer his church to be oppressed , his design may be not so much to punish , as to purge them . he may run them through the fire , to melt out their dross , to make them shine more glorious , by having been for a while in persecution . but whatsoever his dealing may be , ( which we are to resign entirely to his wisdom ; ) whether he design to punish , or purge us , or whether only to shew us the rod ; we are sure in all conditions to be under the good providence of god. if our ways please the lord , either he will make our enemies to be at peace with us ; or he will not let them be able to hurt us : at least , they shall not have their will upon us , they shall not say there , there , so would we have it ; they shall not be able to swallow us up quick , though they are never so wrathfully displeased at us . the ways that god hath to deliver us , are many more than i am able to reckon : and yet i can reckon more than i can bring within my time . but so the thing be done , what matter is it , which way god uses ? whether by destroying his and our enemies ; whether by breaking their combinations against us ; or by otherwise weakning their strength : whether by infatuating their counsels , or discovering their crafty designs : whether by raising us up friends , or uniting us among our selves ; and so making us too many and too strong for them : whether by giving means unexpected , or by blessing what we have , above expectation ? he can do what , and which way , he will ; and we are sure it is his will to deliver his people from their enemies ; for he is on their side , and will shew it , wheresoever there is need , and when he sees it the fittest time to deliver them . all that i have said hitherto , hath been only upon such general heads , as are equally acknowledged by all sorts of christians among us : and for this agreement , we chiefly are under god , to thank his majesty , and this most honorable assembly : that have kept the church of england in that power which it received from their predecessors , and not suffered it to fall into any other hands . neither our religion , nor our church , is of a persecuting spirit . i know not how it may be in particular persons . but i say again , it is not in the genius of our church : she hath no doctrine that teacheth persecution ; she hath not practised it , as others , when they were in authority . i thank god for it , and i hope , she will always continue in that temper ; which ; being added to the other marks of a true christian church , may assure us , that she is a church according to the mind of christ. but can all others say the same , that call themselves churches of christ ? or were they so , when they had power in their hands ? they that never were in power , can never answer this question . therefore none can answer it so well as the papists ; and they tell us , now , they are as much against persecution as any . but what would they be , if they were in power ? god forbid we should ever live to see the tryal of it . they have been tryed too much already to be believed in this matter . we have seen , we have felt , sufficient proofs of their spirit ; more proofs of that sort , to prove them a false church , than they can shew upon bellarmin's fifteen notes of a true one . i do not speak now of particular persons : i believe there are many good people of that communion . i do not think that common reason , and that common christianity , can be wholly extinguished by the principles of their religion . i doubt not but in some , i hope in many , it prevails above their religion ; otherwise i know there could not be good people of that communion . for , take their religion in it self , abstracting from the common christianity : and so there is nothing else in it , but superstition and cruelty . 't is lutum sanguine maceratum , dirt tempered with blood , according to nero's character . 't is a religion so far from making men like god , that it makes them worse then men would be without any religion . there is a natural compassion in man , that moves him at the sight of others sufferings ; and especially at the sight of great cruelties , it turns ones very bowels within him : and 't is no common provocation , that can harden one against this . but take this man , and throughly steep him in popery , he comes forth , without any compassion at all . he can not only see any cruelty , but act it : he can act it unprovoked , on any person whatsoever , without remorse , yea with pleasure and triumph , as an act of religion , and a good service to god. and to shew that this religion is not the common christianity ; he can do this upon them who have that as well as himself . otherwise , if it were only on the enemies of christ , then indeed it might be thought that christianity moved him to it . but he considers christians without popery , no more than he doth turks or infidels : which shews , that he is not moved by common christianity , but by that part of his religion which is properly popery . 't is a religion ( i am sorry we have no other name to call it by ) that vies cruelty with antient judaism and heathenism . if those destroyed thousands of christians in primitive times ; popery hath destroyed its ten thousands of as innocent persons , and destroyed them with as great barbarity and cruelty . i do not think , there was ever such havock made upon the earth , of humane creatures , as was made of millions of heathens in america . there were never greater cruelties invented , than were there used ; and that not in anger , but in sport , upon poor helpless innocent creatures . it would make ones flesh tremble , to read them described by their own writers . and yet they that did these things were very good catholicks , as they thought themselves ; and they acted like roman catholicks in it , for they had the popes commission to go thither , and to conquer that infidel people . but though this was done by papists , yet not upon the account of religion . no ? i know not what should make them so savage otherwise . but then what think you of the wars in the holy-land ? what think you of those slaughters of the moors in spain ? and those butcheries of jews in all countries before the reformation ? those were cruel , and universal , without distinction of age , or sex ; and it cannot be denied , that those were upon the account of religion . but that might be the common christianity , and not popery only , that they thought of : and therefore i proceed to those slaughters that they made of christians ; by their own acknowledgment as good christians as themselves , in all other points except popery . for , such were all those whom they were pleased to call hereticks in the third canon of the fourth lateran council . that council , in the year 1215. first made transubstantiation an article of faith , and made them hereticks that would not believe it : and having first provided against their going to heaven , as far as they could , by declaring all damned that were not of the roman faith , in all points , and that of transubstantiation in particular ; then ordered the destroying of them from the face of the earth ; and so left them no place to go to , but hell : so great was their charity . in the third canon of that council , it was ordained , that all kings and princes shall root out hereticks , and all that favour them , out of their countreys : and if any do not execute this canon , the pope is to take away his country , and give it to such catholicks as will do it effectually . this is still as good law as any is now in the roman church : and it was executed strictly in all places before the reformation . there were at first some princes that lost their countreys by it , and the pope did take the forfeiture for a warning to other princes . but who can number the poor christians that lost their lives by it ? above a hundred thousand albigenses in france ; many thousands of the waldenses , there , and in italy ; the like in germany of the bohemians ; besides what suffered in england and other countreys ; and all put to the cruellest deaths , on no other account , but their religion . indeed for many of them , it was not so evident , that they held any thing against popery : but it was enough , if being taken upon suspicion , they could not purge themselves of it . the ways of purging wete different in divers places . in some countreys it was by throwing them into the water , * as some of late have tryed witches . in other places † the tryal was by putting a fire-coal in their hands , and trying whether it would cleave to the flesh : for if it did , then they concluded them hereticks all over , and their whole bodies fit to be burnt . i cannot pass by those two learned and good men , as any were in that age , if we may judge by their writings , i mean iohn huss and ierom of prague : they had to do with the most sober piece of popery , the council of constance ; which invited them thither to dispute with them for their religion . but after all their disputing , instead of having leave to return , according to their pass-port that brought them thither ; they were burned there , in the presence of the emperor , from whom they received it : and not only that cruelty , but that breach of publick faith , were owned and justified by the pope and his general council . i may perhaps have been too large in things so far off , and so long since ; and therefore , for the rest of my discourse , i shall confine it to england , and to things done since the reformation . this church was freed from thraldom by king henry the eighth ; and was then reformed in king edward vi. days , with no material difference from what it is now at this present . soon after his death , under queen mary his successor , it came to have a through feeling of the spirit of popery . though she came in with the greatest assurance , that she would make no change in * religion : though she promised it upon her royal word , to those protestants , that brought her to her crown ; though they deserved it without a promise , by venturing their lives for her against a protestant that was set up in oppositition : yet she was no sooner setled upon her throne , but the spirit of popery quite cancell'd all those obligations . there were none that durst appear for the protestant religion , but were fain to fly their countrey to save their lives , or stayed and lost them with the cruellest deaths . of the last sort , were , the archbishop of canterbury , and divers bishops , and other eminent persons . both they , and hundreds more , of the clergy and commonalty , were burnt alive , upon no other account but their religion . there was only one flower , here at westminster , that was distracted , and wounded a priest at mass , for which he was burnt among the rest . of all the other that suffered , there was no other pretence against any , but only upon the account of their religion . their charge was for not going to confession , or for not going to mass , or for denying transubstantiation when they were called to it . there was nothing else in their accusation , there was nothing else in their sentence , there was nothing else for which they suffered ; it was meerly for their not submitting to popery ; a sufficient proof of the spirit of that religion . but soon after , when the protestant religion came in again ; see what a contrary spirit appeared on the other side . when queen elizabeth came to reign , and immediately declared her religion , and established it in her first year , without any violence ; from that day forward , for ten years together , what one papist was there that suffered death for his religion ? though living in the midst of them , whose dearest friends and relations they had murdered ; and though those protestants could say , there goes he that burnt my father , or he that murdered my brother , or that brought them to that cruel death ; though the queen her self could say , who they were , that in her sisters time dealt most insolently and barbarously with her : ( for they had taken away her attendants , and put her under a guard of souldiers , and carried her prisoner from place to place ; and that they had not murdered her too , she was beholding to the spaniard for it , though not so much to his humanity , as his policy ; for if she had been dead , the queen of scotland , who had married the dauphin , would have been the next heir to the crown : but for her life she knew she owed no thanks to those papists that were now her own subjects ; ( i mean , to those of the english nation : ) yet when she came to be their queen , for ten years , she touched not a hair of any of their heads . only she kept them from publick exercise of popery , she required them to come to church every lords-day , and those that did not , she made them pay twelve pence a sunday . this was all that they suffered for ten years , after ours was the established religion . was there ever so generous a revenge ? so much cruelty requited with so much clemency ? after that , the pope ( by an authority he gives himself ) made bold to declare her uncapable to reign ; because forsooth she was a heretick ; and exhorted all her subjects to depose her , and to murder her , by a bull that he gave out for that purpose : this bull being set up publickly at noon-day by one of her own subjects , and he being taken and hanged for it , they had the impudence to call him a martyr ; and he stands the first martyr in their roll , among all them that suffered in her reign . so it was ten years before any of them suffered , and then it was for declaring her no queen , and for posting up the popes bull , to make her subjects depose her and murder her . that bull had such an effect upon many of her subjects , that they broke out into open rebellion against her . when that failed , they betook themselves to private conspiracie to destroy her , any way , by assassination : which was proved time after time , as fully , and as clearly , as ever any thing was proved under the sun. and it was proved that the first movers to it were popish priests , and especially jesuites , who came over from beyond-sea for that purpose . this obliged her to make sanguinary laws , to keep them out of the kingdom ; which yet were rarely inflicted upon any , but those that were found to have actually carried on some design against her life : and there were divers penalties upon them of that religion , to make that uneasie to them , which was so dangerous to her and to her kingdom . but in king iames his time , it was almost three years that he had reigned , before the gunpowder-treason ; during all which time , there was no papist put to death , upon any of those laws : there was no penalty inflicted upon any of them , that could be pretended to be upon the account of religion . but contrariwise , they were remitted the arrears of all their penalties in queen elizabeths time : nay , more than that , they were admitted to court ; they were employed in embassies ; they had honors conferred upon them , as well as others : they were debarred from nothing , but only the publick exercise of their religion : and that was provocation enough , to engage them into that hellish treason , which was to have been executed as on this day . it was a treason that shewed the spirit of that faction , how fierce and implacable it was , after so much experience of ours on the contrary : it shewed how impossible it was to oblige them : how impossible to keep them from doing mischief ; such a mischief , as none other could have invented , none but would have abhorred it , that had not been possest with the evil spirit of that religion . what! to murder their king , that had been so gentle and easie to them ? to murder the innocent hopes of that royal family ? to murder a whole nation together , in their representative then met in parliament ? all was struck at together , as if they had been but one person ; as if ( according to caligula's wish , ) they had but one neck . they were for blowing them up , for swallowing them up at once , for overwhelming all that was venerable and sacred in this nation : for burying both our state and our religion in one heap of destruction and ruine . good god! if thou hadst not been on our side , what had become of us , when men rose up against us , to swallow us up quick ? men ? who would ever suspect men of such a wickedness ? we ought not to think that men were capable of it ; we ought not to entertain so hard an opinion of humane nature . it was something else that put them upon it . it was something which they mis-call religion , that made them put off their humanity . it was this which transformed men into such monsters , that brought them , not only to think of this , but to design it . for their part it was actually done . i do not charge all of that religion with this action : ( religion do i call it ? i unwillingly use so good a word on so ill an occasion ; but since they call it so , let it pass : i say then that all the authors were only of that religion ; and they acted according to their own principles , those principles which they received from their spiritual governors . their counsellors were of the governing party : they were jesuites , who had their superior in the plot. i need not tell you , of the malice , the closeness , the subtilty , the rage and cruelty of that faction ; that hath sufficently appeared in a hundred other things : in other exploits they have out-done all other men ; but they out-did themselves , in this unhumane , this devilish conspiracy . it was contrived with such foresight , it was managed with such policy , it was carried on with that closeness and secresie , as not once to gather wind , in some years , till they had brought all their business to perfection . there was but a short time , but one night , but half a night , between the plot and the execution , if god had not miraculously interposed . the vault was dug , the magazine was laid in , the iron-bars were laid over , the engineer was at hand , the match was laid , it was sized for an hour , a fatal hour , of this morning , of the fifth of november : in a minute of which , in a moment ; all the governing part of this nation , and god knows who more , all that came within reach , were to have been swallowed up quick . lord ! what a thunderclap had it been , to this nation , to this church , to this kingdom ? what an earthquake it would have been ? what a chaos it would have made ? what a tragical day to every thing but popery ? nay to papists themselves ? i doubt not many would have abhorr'd it ; i am persuaded they would ; many would have abhorr'd their very popery : but they could not have remedied what was past , nor have prevented the following miseries . then this day had stood in red letters in their almanacks , though some are pleased to leave it out of ours . then they must have kept this a holy-day , that cannot now afford it a thanksgiving . then they must have gone to mass for it , that will not joyn with us now in our prayers ; and some that will not now give a faggot , must then have lighted one . 't is not in my power , nor words , nor in the wit of man , to enumerate all the evils and miseries that would have come upon this nation . it could not have been otherwise , if the lord had not been on our side . if the lord had not been on our side , we had been gone , we had never been born , or had cause to have wished we had never been . oh! how are we bound to thank god , that he was on our side on this day ? how are we bound to praise his name , for preserving us so many times since ? i need not reckon up to you the particulars . i know of no great danger we have been in , but hath more or less been occasion'd by the same sort of men ; or if they did not begin it , they have struck in with it , and contributed to carry it on all they could . and shall we tempt god , by doing nothing to secure our selves against them ? it is plain that this were contrary to gratitude . but what shall we do towards our safety ? there is nothing more worth our consideration . but do i ask that ? when i know what this august assembly hath judged ? and if your judgment be seconded , as i hope it will be , there is no doubt his majesty will assent to it : then we shall have no occasion for any more such miracle ; there will be an ordinary way , to keep us out of this danger . first , they will be obliged , all the papists that stay in england , at least for their own ease , if not for the common security , to consider , whether they are bound in conscience to be still of that faction . that is more than we have been able to bring them to for many years . they would rarely endure any of our clergy to speak to them . they had their ears stopt against us , for fear of better information . if you can but bring them to hear truth , i am persuaded they cannot continue papists . i know they cannot , if they have so much sense in them , as to consider , how little reason they have for it . and for them that will not hear nor consider , neither of themselves , nor when authority requires it , what can be more reasonable than what you have judged ? i think none will judge otherwise , that will consider the present case . this , i take it , is the present case between them and us ; our main difference is in a plain point of practice , whose subjects they and we must be . they will needs be subject to one that lives in italy . if they will be so , who can help it ? nay that will not content them , but we must be his subjects too : that is hard , when we can see no reason for it . nay , we must , or we shall never be quiet otherwise . no ? cannot we intreat them ? cannot be oblige them to be quiet ? we have endeavoured to do it , with all possible civility ; and yet we cannot be quiet , without being what we will never be . then it is time to part , if we cannot live together ; that 's plain . but now the question is , who shall go ? that would i , with all my soul , if popery were the religion of england . i protest , i would not stay in it . and yet i have done nothing to make my country afraid of me ; and i have nothing but my religion to provoke any of them . i hate the person of no papist , or man in the world . i would have no man punished for his religion ; no not them that destroy men for religion . i would not punish them ; but i would not live with them , if i could help it . i know no sect among christians that i would not live under rather than popery . but what matter is it for such a one as me ? i expect from them no regard to what i say . but methinks they should have some regard for their country . i would tell them , if they were present , your country is afraid of you . she does as it were beg you to be gone . for a hundred years she hath been in danger of you . she hath not suffered but some way or other on your account . the spanish invasion was for popery . the gunpowder-treason was for popery . one civil war was in a great measure occasioned by popery . she is in danger of another civil war by popery . i will not say what she hath suffered abroad for your sakes . she hath suffered more than she can well bear ; and must she suffer still ? must she still be in fear for your sakes ? why should you not be gone , and free her from her fears ? if they are true , that she may not be destroyed : and if false , that she may not be always in fear of you . but perhaps we cannot expect so much favour at their hands , and therefore we should be the more careful for our selves . let us do what we can do , if we will , without them . we need not fear them so much , if it were not for our divisions . that is the thing which makes us most in danger of them . we divide , and subdivide ; we take the way to make our selves weak , and little , and indefensible . we promote their design by it , to swallow us up . we should not go down so easily whole , as we may do in small pieces . we cannot but see this . oh! that we had hearts to consider it ! that we would do what we can to unite our selves ! surely we can , if we will : we could , if we had but a real mind to it . we will , and must very speedily do it ; or else , if we do not unite , do what we will otherwise , we shall let in popery , even by the ways that we take to keep out popery . well! nothing can be too bad for us to suffer , upon the account of our sins : yet nothing can be too good to expect , from that god , who hath preserved us , and will preserve us , if we are not wanting to our selves . if we reform our lives according to our religion ; if we eschew evil and do good , if we seek peace and ensue it ; then we shall see good days , then god will delight to dwell among us , he will build us like ierusalem , a city at unity within it self , that shall stand fast for ever . the lord grant it for his mercy sake . amen . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a48851-e210 * that is , in the booksellers style , 1677. * aug. 30. 1675. † p. 17. o● the collection of letter● set out by order of the house of commons . * march 1676. ibid p. 82. notes for div a48851-e600 * bernard . super cant. serm. 67. † caesar. ab heist . dist . 3. c. 16 , 17. * dr. burnet's hist. of reform . part. 2. the bill against popery , that has pass'd in the house of lords . a sermon at the funeral of sr. edmund-bury godfrey, one of his majesties justices of the peace, who was barbarously murthered preached on thursday the last day of october 1678, in the parish church of st. martin in the fields / by william lloyd ... lloyd, william, 1627-1717. 1678 approx. 55 kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from 23 1-bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : 2004-03 (eebo-tcp phase 1). a48835 wing l2700 estc r20443 12402742 ocm 12402742 61311 this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons 0 1.0 universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase 1, no. a48835) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set 61311) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, 1641-1700 ; 767:25) a sermon at the funeral of sr. edmund-bury godfrey, one of his majesties justices of the peace, who was barbarously murthered preached on thursday the last day of october 1678, in the parish church of st. martin in the fields / by william lloyd ... lloyd, william, 1627-1717. [3], 42 p. printed by tho. newcomb for henry brome ..., london : 1678. includes bibliographical references. reproduction of original in huntington library. created by converting tcp files to tei p5 using tcp2tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between 1473 and 1700 available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the 25,363 texts created during phase 1 of the project have been released into the public domain as of 1 january 2015. anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. 5% (or 5 pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of 100 instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level 4 of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p5, characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng godfrey, edmund berry, -sir, 1621-1678. bible. -o.t. -samuel, 2nd, iii, 33-34 -sermons. funeral sermons. sermons, english -17th century. 2003-11 tcp assigned for keying and markup 2003-11 aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images 2004-01 mona logarbo sampled and proofread 2004-01 mona logarbo text and markup reviewed and edited 2004-02 pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion imprimatvr , guil. jane . r. p. d. hen. epis. lond. à sacris dom. nov. the 9th 1678. a sermon at the funeral of s r edmvnd-bvry godfrey , one of his majesties justices of the peace , who was barbarously murthered . preached on thursday the last day of october 1678. in the parish church of st. martin in the fields . by william lloyd d. d. dean of bangor , one of his majesties chaplains in ordinary . vicar of the said parish of st. martin . london , printed by tho. newcomb , for henry brome at the gun , at the west-end of st. pauls . mdclxxviii . a funeral sermon , on 2 sam . iii. 33 , 34. 33. and the king lamented over abner , and said , died abner as a fool dieth ? 34. thy hands were not bound , nor thy feet put into fetters : as a man falleth before wicked men , so fellest thou . and all the people wept again over him . if i could at any time allow my self to transgress the rules of this place , to preach without a text , it should be now , having this subject before me . here 's a subject that makes it's own sermon and its own prayer . the blood of abel speaks , saith the apostle . this innocent blood speaks and cries in the ears of god , ( the all-knowing god that hears matter without words ; ) it speaks and cries aloud to him for vengeance : how long , o lord , holy and true , dost thou not judge and avenge ? it speaks to you , to your eyes , and to your hearts , many sad and astonishing things . i judge of others by my self ; i do not hear , but i feel what this speaks to me : it speaks in such language as this , oh my friends ! i spent my life in serving you . it was my business to do justice and shew mercy . see what i had for it , insnared and butcher'd by wicked men against justice and without mercy . how many things did i endure e're they brought me to this ? how many lies were you told the mean while , to hide it from you ? how many deaths have i suffered before death came to relieve me ? and if that would have satisfied them , if they would but have buried me , you should have heard none of all this . but their malice went farther ; my poor mangled macerated body must be thrown out to birds and beasts , and my name to the obloquy of worse men . then it was time for me to speak for my self , and god brought a number of you to hear me : then i said , see , see , o my friends , how they have used me ! behold the spectacle they have given you . i saw it among the rest : it was a most dismal fight , such as that which we read of . it was so , that all that saw it , said , there was no such deed done nor seen from the time that we first came to be a nation , till this day . 't is possible i might find something like it among other nations ; but i shall confine my self to what we find among the people of god. and of all that god delivers to us in scripture , among them , i think there is no example like that of the murther of abner , which occasioned those words which i have chosen for my text. and because i do not intend to dwell upon that , i shall shew you ( but briefly ) these three particulars in it , first , the person ; secondly , his sufferings ; and thirdly , the consequences of it . first , the person ; that was abner , an eminent man , both in dignity , and also in usefulness among his people . secondly , his sufferings ; a bloody violent death . and herein i have three things to consider . first , the kind of fact : he died , he fell by wicked men : he was murthered by ioab and abishai . secondly , the manner of it ; perfidiously and cruelly , with shew of the greatest friendship they inhumanly killed him . thirdly , the authors of it ; such as can pretend friendship to destroy ; such no doubt are wicked men , the most dangerous sort of wicked men . by such a wise man may be caught , and die like a fool ; a mighty man may be deprived of the use of his hands ; a wary man may be deprived of the use of his feet : there is no fighting with such , nor no running away from such an enemy . this david exprest in his lamentation , which moved the people to theirs , and that was the consequence of it , which comes last to be considered . i shall repeat you my text , that you may see how all these parts lie together . the king lamented over abner , and said , died abner as a fool dieth ? could he make no shift for himself ? why couldst thou not fight ? thy hands were not bound . nor thy feet put in fetters , why couldst thou not run away ? the reason is plain , thou couldst do nothing to help thy self . thou wert caught in a trap . as a man falleth before wicked men , so fellest thou . this the king having said , all the people , who wept before , now wept again over abner . for the person here spoken of ; he was a a prince of the blood , b cousin german to king saul , and general of his armies all his reign . he was an excellent person ( as c iosephus describes him ) for counsel , & courage , and diligence , & experience in affairs . there is ground to believe this from scripture , which makes him after saul's death , to have been the only support of his son and successor ishbosheth . 't is said 2 sam. 2. 8 , 9. that abner took ishbosheth , and made him king over all israel . he might , in all probability , considering the others weakness , as easily have made himself king if he pleased . but he was true to his relation and his trust. in this chapter , at the sixth verse , he set himself with all his might for the house of saul . amidst his cares and concerns for the state , he was not forgetful of the church , as appears by his dedications , 1 chron. xxvi . 28. i find nothing that can any way blemish his memory , unless it was something contained in this chapter ; where it is said , that he was charged by ishbosheth , with dishonouring the bed of his late master , ver . 7. he asketh him , wherefore hast thou gone in unto my fathers concubines ? iosephus believeth the information was not true ; and it seems not so likely of one of his age , being then above sixty years old when the king charged him with it . the more cause he had to lay this to heart . it made that great man think his service misplaced , and that god was not pleased with what he did for sauls family , in opposition to david , who had a better title to the crown . he knew that the government was not yet made hereditary , but that it was conferred immediately by god , who had decreed that he would take away saul and set up david in his stead . and reflecting upon this , abner swore he would now make amends for his error , he would bring over the kingdom to david . this ishbosheth heard ; and durst not gain-say , nay , it seems he consented to it , by what followeth : for when abner sent to david for terms , and he required this preliminary point , that his wife michal should be sent home to him ; we read that ishbosheth used his authority in the matter : he sent for his sister michal , and delivered her to abner , to take her with him when he went to perfect his agreement with david . this being supposed , that he had ishbosheths consent , i do not see what can be blamed in the conduct of abner ; i see much to be commended in him , especially considering the greatness of his birth , and how near he was to the crown , and in what probability he stood for it ; that notwithstanding all these temptations , he still adhered to just and right , he kept his loyalty to his prince , he did all possible service to his country . he was about the greatest work , to secure both the peace and the religion of god's people , in uniting them under the government of david ; when unexpectedly he was taken off by death , which is the second thing i am to consider . his death was untimely , and bloody , and treacherous . first , untimely ; for he was then in the midst of his business . he had been at hebron with david . he had made his terms with him ; such as would have united all israel without a stroke ; such as would have saved ishbosheth's life , as appears by what follows , 2 sam. iv . 1. ( which confirms me in what i said , that he had his consent along with him ; for there it is said ) when saul ' s son heard that abner was dead , his hands were feeble , and all the israelites were troubled . then , and not before , the reins of government fell out of his hands . he could hold them no longer , when his friend abner was dead , both his and all israel's hopes , depended upon abner's safe return . and he was so far towards it . he was then upon the way , when he was fetched back to hebron by a messenger in david's name . so iosephus understands those words in the 26th verse , but david knew not of it ; it was in david's name , but he knew it not . and when abner was come back , even at the gate of the royal city , he was met and received by some friends whom he did not suspect . they had him apart from his company , they brought him into a lone place , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 saith iosephus , to tell him something which the king had forgot . and there he soon had his message ; it was a stab , that put an end to his life . the authors of this fact were as soon known as the fact it self . they were ioab and abishai , the sons of zerviah ; men that had a pretence to do this , in revenge of their brother whom abner had slain some years since in defence of his own life . revenge was an ill reason ; but the scripture mentions that , as the only one they had to give . the true reason was ( saith the jewish historian , who is herein followed by most christians , ) because they feared that among abner's terms , this was one , to keep his place , to be general of the armies of israel . that interfered with the ambition of these men , who were resolved to have all the power to themselves , to admit of no sharer . they would scarce take in the king himself ; even he complained , they were too hard for him , in the last verse of this chapter . i am weak this day , though anointed king , and these men the sons of zerviah are too hard for me . it appeared they were so , by this , that he durst not call them to account for it . but he did all that he could . he disclaimed , he detested the wicked fact ; he curst the authors of it most bitterly . he exposed them to the people ; requiring them all to mourn for abner , and to shew all possible signs of it , by renting their clothes ; and putting on sackcloth , which the people did most willingly , and ioab durst not but do it among the rest . in this mournful array they attended him to his grave . the king followed him weeping , and all the people wept with him , saith the text. when they had buried him , the king pronounced the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the funeral song , for so the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signifies , which being in ioab's and abishai's presence , it was a fresh mortification to them , as well as a just honour to abner . the king lamented over abner , saying , &c. i intended all this but to shew you in scripture a record which god hath given us of his peoples behaviour in such a case as we have before us . such as that in divers respects , though very different in many other . and yet whereinsoever they differ , if their case exceed our's in some respects , it is exceeded by our's in so many more , as may sufficiently justifie us , and oblige us to the like lamentation . only bating this one circumstance , abner's high birth and quality , being a prince of the blood , and so nearly allied to king david ; ( which , together with some other public considerations , might well oblige david himself to be present at his funeral . this we have no reason to expect of our king , who hath done in other respects more than david could or durst do for abner . but waving this , ) we have all other considerations , some greater than what god's people had in my text , to weep and weep again , in our private and in our public lamentations . first , the person , and his personal accomplishments , were such , as , though i would not compare them with abners ; yet i would not lessen him by declining the comparison . they were very considerable in his rank . he was a great blessing to this place , and will be so understood , as all god's blessings are , by the loss of them . but secondly , for the kind of our loss , for the things that he indured , for the manner in which he was brought to it , for the treachery and barbarity of it ; these things are so far above all that were in abner's case , that we cannot admit them into the comparison . thirdly , for the authors of abner's murther , they were known , by this , and one more , that of amasai whom they killed in like manner . but for our's , they are unknown . we are yet to inquire for them , and we have reason to fear we may find them too late , and yet too soon . lastly , for the consequences , i shall shew you how the king hath lamented it ; and how , besides all that we have done , we are yet to do it so as to make the best of our loss ; to sow in tears that we may reap in joy. that is the end and benefit of our lamentation . first of the person , i must crave leave to say so much as may justifie the public sorrow upon the account of an extraordinary loss . and being my self particularly concerned in it , i may be allowed to speak with the more freedom . 't is all the way i have to shew my gratitude for the many good offices that i among many others received from him , while he was living . and what i am to say , i have so well considered , that i do not fear to be suspected of flattery by any that knew him so well as most of you did in this place . as to those things which belong to a private christian , i ought to know him better than most others ; and i did know that by him which gives me abundant comfort in his death . i knew him to be a just and charitable man , a devout , a zealous and conscientious christian. his religion was more for use than for shew . and yet he was constant in all the acts of gods worship . he loved the communion of the church , as well out of judgment as affection . and though the compassion that he had for all men that did amiss , extended it self to allmanner of dissenters ; and among them he had a kindness for the persons of many roman-catholicks : yet he always declared a particular hatred and detestation of popery . i say this on purpose to be remembred , ( because some would have him a papist , or inclined that way , ) i never pleased him with any duty i performed , at least he never thanked me for any , so much , as he did for those sermons which i preacht here against popery . but these things are less considerable in our loss , we are more concerned for what he was in his publick capacity . and for that he seem'd made and fitted up with more than ordinary care : god seemed to have singled him forth , and designed him to be the useful man that he was in this place . he was composed for it , both by nature , and education , & choice , & study , & practice : i know not what could be added to make him fitter than he was . he was ( as it were ) born to be a justice of peace ; his grand-father , his father , his elder brother were so before him . the two last were also members of parliament . his great grand-father was a captain , which was considerable in those days . his education was sutable to his birth ; being brought up at westminster school , from whence he was sent to the university , thence to travel in forein parts ; then he came to live in the inns of court , where wanting health , he retired for a time into the countrey : and now all our hopes of him might seem to have been defeated at once . but that god , who by his providence , designed him for this place , brought him back with an intimate friend and relation ; who having suffered much for the late king , whose servant he was , turned what he had left into money , and to make the most of that , employed it in a wood-yard in this parish . our friend could have no great estate , being the tenth son of his father , who had four sons younger than he was : and his father was a younger son of his grand-father : so that though his father had a plentiful estate , and his grand-father one of the fairest in his country , yet but a small portion of these could fall to his share . but what he had , he laid it out as partner with his friend , and so improved it , till he had wherewith to live like himself . and then , he that was never bred to a trade , needed not be perswaded to ease himself of it . he found other business more equal to his soul : which having practised at first , with his other emploiment , afterwards he withdrew from all other business to this . he dedicated himself wholly to it ; made his country his family , this parish his wife and children ; attended wholly to their good ; to keep up law , and justice , and safety , and liberty ; to save others from violence and wrong , to reduce them from disorder and idleness . he was perhaps the man of our age , that did the most good in that station : i should not doubt of it , having so great an author . he that ought to know best , hath often said , sir edmund godfrey he took to be the best iustice of peace in this kingdom . he knew what he had reason to expect would come of this , the emulation even of good men , for they are but men . and he shewed his own infirmity in this , that sometimes he was troubled at it . but for others , he despised whatsoever they thought or said . he knew before hand the price of doing his duty , how many ill men he must displease , what scoffs and censures he must indure , what hazards he must run . and this was all he expected for his labour . he thought it worth the while , to suffer this for god's glory and the public good. 't is vulgar virtue that puts men only upon safe good things . 't is virtue in its perfection , when one dares do well , and suffer for it . and of this degree , he shewed some as great proofs , as perhaps have been given in our days . in the plague-time , who would have done as he did ? not only to stay here , but to expose himself upon every occasion . it was much to indure the very air ; that , besides its own putrefaction , was filled with the steams of so many thousands of dying-breaths . it was fearful to see and hear the mournful objects and cries that went hourly every-where about the street . it was a desperate thing to flesh and blood , to converse with them , and to be in the midst of them . god knows , when i am called to this , how i shall perform it ; but he did , what i have even trembled to hear ; he fed so many poor with his own hands , distributed as well physic as food , exposing himself to be pulled and haled by them sometimes . and that which exceeds all the rest , where the officers durst not , he went himself into the pesthouse to seize on a malefactor . these are instances of so high a courage , so undaunted a zeal to public good , that if we should have the like occasion again , ( which god forbid ) we could scarce hope to find the like instances . he could not shew the like himself at other times . and therefore i shall the more easily pass over those things which in themselves were very considerable ; those watchings , and hazards , and toils , which would have been great matters to others ; but they were less to him , because he had inured himself to them . they were by long and constant practice become so natural to him , that he seemed to have left himself , no sense of any labour , no weariness of watching , no apprehension of danger , in any thing by which he might do service to god , the king , and his countrey . there are but few such men living , the greater is our loss by his death . a great loss , if he had died a natural death . then we should have submitted to the will of god. and so we must now . but we could easier have done it , if he had lived out his time , and done all the good we could have hoped from him . if he had lived the age of a man , as his grandfather did ; or as his father , to that which moses calls labour and sorrow ; or as his mother , who is eighty six years old , and yet living . how much good might one do so qualified as he was , so disposed , so resolved , so verst in business ? how much more good might he have done , if he had lived to those years ? but to be taken off at six and fifty , as he was , when he might have lived much longer , to go on doing still as he did ; the thought of this hath much uneasiness in it . but then farther , to think how he was taken away ; by a violent death ; he was murthered ; the very mention of this strikes horror into one that considers it . human nature abhors it . much more , grace in christians ; whom god hath strictly forbidden it , by all the laws that are given to christians . but then , to murther a magistrate , that should be the keeper of those laws ; this is so much beyond common horror , i know not how to express it . if it were an assault , if it were a false imprisonment , much more if the murther , of any other person , the magistrate is he that should punish it . but that he should be murthered himself ! to murther him , it cannot be without the highest affront , to authority , and laws , to the king , to the whole nation , to god himself . alas ! that such wickedness should be done in our nation , in this 〈◊〉 in this place . but especially upon such a magistrate , that was the blessing of this place . they could not hurt him , but they must hurt us all , for whom he lived , and cared , more than for himself ; for whom he also died , as we have too much reason to believe . considering this , it concerns us all to know how he died . there are ways , that a wise man may die like a fool ; that he can neither fight nor run away ( as my text shews us ) . thus died abner , and thus died our friend ; and this heightens our horror above measure . had he died by sudden chance , or by open malicious design , it had happened to him as it hath done to many others : but perhaps never any was murthered as he was , so treacherously and basely , and with such bloody and barbarous cruelty . for the treacherousness of it , if abner were catcht so , it is no wonder . 't is no hard thing for any one that hath made himself base enongh ; that will violate his faith , and break the bonds of human society ; to call another aside , and secretly to cut his throat . the pretence of common friendship is enough to enable any one that is wicked enough , to do this . but in our case , there was no need of so much as that pretence or colour of friendship . any stranger might do it to a person of so easie access ; one that never denied himself to any one that had need of him ; one that neither feared force , nor affected shew ; and therefore never took so much as a servant along with him . he was at every ones call , to do that which was his daily business ; to make peace , to do justice , to do any good to any person . was it not a worthy prize to get such a one into their hands ? oh cowards ! that could go such a low mean way to take him . oh monsters ! that having taken him , could find in their hearts to do him hurt . well , he is now in their hands , as he thinks , to do them service in his place . what business have they for him ? what they said , we are not able to guess : but what they did , appeared by woful tokens in this poor body . god knows where they kept him . we know only it was under restraint ; and 't was not altogether in darkness , by the wax-candle-drops upon his cloaths ; and therefore it was not altogether hell upon earth ; though it was like it in his usage , that hellish usage that he indured . ah poor soul ! how many comfortless hours did he reckon in that merciless trap where they kept him ? how many insulting words , how many reproaches did he hear ? what racks , what bodily tortures might he probably suffer ? and what cordial , what refection to support him under all this ? we know nothing but what appeared in his body ; his sunk belly , his empty stomach , his blancht tongue , were all witnesses of his chear . my tears are my meat day and night , while i call upon my god. yet we cannot say they starved him . god knows what they would have done , had they had time ; but in all likelihood , it was the fear of search that hastned his death . and the same death it was , that they deserved ten thousand times over . they can suffer no worse ( if they are taken ) than this , to be strangled , and then the law hath done with them . but when they had strangled him , they had not done with him so , he must be cast forth to the birds & beasts : and that with the formality of a sword thrust through his body , that if men came to find him , they might judge that he had killed himself ; whether it were to save themselves from suspicion , or whether out of malice to him , or whether both these together , god knows . sure enough , it was the worst they could do to him ; it was that which being believed , would ruin all that they had left . all that they could not reach , the law would , if he had murthered himself . it must have ruined his name , it had forfeited his estate , it had brought a blot upon his family . nothing could be done more to shew their malice , if that were their meaning . if they rather sought to hide their own guilt , it was surely an infatuation from god : he took away their understandings , that they could not consider those things which every child could not but observe . what , would none miss his band , or take notice of his clean shoes ? would none look for the effusion of blood , or take notice of that which hindred it , that so manifest coagulation ? twenty things more that have been considered elsewhere , and are not to be repeated in this place . it was surely an infatuation from god. who having suffered them to run on in their sin to the utmost to make that scarlet sin of murther , even blush at it self ( if it were possible ) ; having suffered the devil to teach them every thing else that he could think of , to consummate the ruin of this good man ; yet was pleased so to take away their understandings , that they could not see so many evident proofs as would be made to all the world ; of his innocence , and of their horrible wickedness . but now i speak of discovery , me-thinks i see you all stirred up , as it were , expecting that i should name you the persons that did this bloody fact. i would i could , for sundry reasons . but i cannot pretend to that . i can only say with david , they were wicked men . he was the common enemy of all such , and it pleased god to let him fall into their hands . he fell by the hands of wicked men , that is certain . but if you would know more , i will endeavour to shew you how possibly you may discover them . perhaps some that are wiser , would be afraid to go so far . but why so ? i speak for him that feared nothing , but to lose an opportunity of doing good . and in hopes to do good by it , i will be so far like him ; i will not fear to go on with what i offered , as to the discovery . there are three things to be chiefly considered in this matter . first , mens actions : secondly , their interests : and thirdly , their principles . we shall consider each of these , first , their actions and practices . since we know not who they are that were the authors of this wickedness , at least can we find who they are that are not willing we should know it ? they that have practised , and intrigued to this purpose , to endeavour to hinder the search , or the discovery ; if they knew what they did , we have reason to judge they were concerned , for themselves , or for their friends . you cannot but remember the dust that was raised in the week when the search should have been made ; those calumnies , & those various reports that went about , as it were , on purpose to hinder the discovery . one while he had withdrawn himself for debt ; another while he was married , & that not very decently ; another while he was run away with a harlot ; even what the father of lies put into their heads . at last , when they knew what they intended to do with him ; they prepared you to expect it , by giving out that he had kild himself . you know how impatient they were to have this believ'd . i was told it some hours before the discovery , that he was found with his own sword through his body . others could tell that he had two wounds about him . these things were found to be true some hours after . but then they devised sundry untruths to colour it . it was suggested that it might be done ▪ in distraction , which ( they said ) was an hereditary disease in his family , that his father and his grand-father had it before him ; that this disease being stirred up by some mis-apprehensions , wrought that direful effect upon him , to make him kill himself . these things ( from whatsoever author they came ) being confidently said , were as easily believed by them that knew nothing to the contrary . i confess i knew not what to think my self , till i saw the contrary with my eyes . when i saw he was strangled as well as thrust through , i soon considered , that no man could kill himself both those ways . and then for the scandal that was raised of his family , i found upon inquiry ; that all the colour they had to say it , was only this : that his father was sometime afflicted with melancholy , almost to distraction ; but it was before he was fifty years old ; he soon recovered of it , and lived till the eightieth year of his age. besides , i am informed , that there never was any appearance of the like distemper in any one person of all that numerous family : nor did any of his relations ever come to an untimely end , as has been falsly reported . for the melancholy that was observed in our friend , i think none , that knew him , ever thought it distraction , or any thing tending that way ; but a thoughtfulness sometimes , that proceeded from the intricacy and multiplicity of business . i believe the weightiest business that ever he had , was that which made him say some days before his death , i am told i shall be knock'd in the head. he said this in my hearing , without any great visible concern . he continued the same he ever was , in his daily conversation ; serious in business , but chearful and pleasant at other times . thus he used to be alway . he was so the last day of his living life ; that is , till the hour that we lost him . and how he was afterwards , i suppose they best know , that were the authors of these rumors . that 's one way to try men , i think , by their actions and practises . a second way to find out the authors of any fact , is to consider who they were that were concerned to have it done . it was cassius's word , cui bono ? for whose interest was it ? now consider for whose interest it was to kill this person . they must be some that were not safe while he lived ; or some that might be the better for his death ; and that in some considerable measure , such as would requite all the danger they were to incur by it . if you know of any that could not think themselves safe while he lived , you have great reason to believe you know the authors of his death . i have not so far been privy to his doings , as that i could be able to enter into this secret. much less to know of any personal malice against him . he that was so tender hearted , even to those whom he punished , could not provoke any one to this height of revenge . much less were they robbers , or any such poor rogues , that kill men for what they have . these did their work gratis . they left him all his money . they took nothing but his band , except papers . 't is therefore very credible , that the authors had some other interest that moved them to it . and that seems rather to have been , against the government and the laws . they knew how firm he was in his duty to both ; and perhaps they had tried it in something else than we know of . if so , they could not but think it worth their while to send him out of the world. one that durst do his duty , when he knew , whom , and what , he should provoke by it ; one that would give so ill an example to other magistrates , which if followed , might be the ruin of their cause ; what could they think of such a man ? we cannot scare him , we cannot bribe him , but we can kill him . they could not have thought of a more compendious way than this . especially , if the killing of him would dishearten others , and so be a means to weaken authority and laws . such men cannot but know , that publick-spirited men are not so many ; and they that are , are but men , they may be daunted , they may be discouraged . and what can do that , more , than the terror of such an example ? i doubt not , they that did this , would rather have done it publickly for that reason . as we hang up thieves , for example to others ; so to hang up justices for doing their duty ; oh that would be a pleasant thing indeed ! no , gentlemen , we are not come to that yet . god knows , what we may come to for our sins , and by your means . but it will be the longer first , if the laws can find you out . and towards that , we have some guess at you by this token ; they that are against the established laws , it was their interest to do this , that is the second thing . the third token is , by their principles . and so , whosoever did this , they should be either such as hold nothing unlawful , or at least such as hold it lawful to do such things . for the first , that is , men of atheistical principles ; they follow only their lust , or their interest ; which will scarce unite any number of men to carry on such a formed design as this was . or if it had , they would scarce have held together so long , they would have impeached one another , and so saved us the labour of discovering them by this token . i do not therefore charge it upon them that hold nothing unlawful . but how shall we excuse them , that hold it lawful to do such things ? if there are such men in the world , and if the other tokens agree to them , they surely are the likeliest that can be thought of for this matter . but such a sort of men there is , even here in england , we have them among us . i could not but think of them when i named the other tokens , and so must any one that hath been conversant in their books . we need not put them upon the rack , to make them confess . they offer themselves , they tell us such things which we scarce dare tell you again . 't is scarce credible , how openly , and how grosly , they teach men these things they are the iesuits i speak of . and whosoever reads their books cannot but know i do not wrong them in what i say . i say , first , they teach men to raise such reports as we heard of this person . and secondly , 't is their interest to discourage the execution of the law. and thirdly , they hold it lawful to kill men that would prejudice them or their religion . if i prove these three things , we have all the tokens together , which i think are not to be found so in any other persons or society . let them clear themselves as they can of the fact. i will prove the tokens . and first for their teaching of calumny . in plain terms , to slander another man in defence of ones own right or honor , and especially one of the fathers to do it in defence of the society ; some hold it plainly lawful . some say , it is a venial sin. for the proofs you may find them together in the fifteenth of the provincial letters . if so , what should hinder these men from r●ising all those reports of this person ? since it was in defence of themselves , and of their sect , if they killed him . secondly , that it was their interest to kill him , 't is manifest ; if they have any design against the government ; and if either his life would have hindred or discovered them in it , or if his death would discourage others from being active in their place . but that it is the interest of their sect , and of their church , to subvert the government ; and that they for their parts design it now at this present ; i think this is so palpable , that i should but lose time in proving it . thirdly , that they hold it lawful to kill in such cases . for this , 't is as plainly delivered in their writings , as any article of faith is in the creed . they say first in general , to kill another , is murther indeed , if you do it for revenge , or any such sinister end. and therefore you must be careful to direct your intention aright . and so by directing the intention , though you do the same act , it is not murther . for example ( saith amicus , one of their professors ) if one threatens to publish grievous crimes of my self or of my order ; when i have no other way to escape this , i may lawfully kill him . and ( saith he ) 't is plain that i have no other way , if he be ready to charge me or my order publickly , coram gravissimis viris , before men in authority . saith tannerus in like manner , one may kill him , if it be in defence of his own goods , or of the goods of his society . saith lessius , if one endeavours to take away my life , by revealing a secret crime , i may kill him . nay , if he endeavours to take away but my good name , by revealing a secret crime , i may kill him , saith lessius , and the same saith filliucius . now who that knows what informations our friend had against them , can doubt but they might lawfully kill him by these doctrines ? i name but one for each . whosoever would see more , may find them collected in the seventh and the thirteenth of the provincial letters . though if we had but one author for each of these doctrines , that 's enough to make a probable doctrine , as they tell us . and then , if it is probable , we may practise it safely without sin . i know what any iesuit would answer to this . they would say that these doctrines , are some of them delivered as being only speculatively true ; that is , they are true in their own nature : but they are not practicè sequendae , that is , in respect of the consequences , they are not to be reduced to practice . and why so ? if they are speculatively true , why then are they not to be practised ? they themselves tell you why , they would cause disorders in the commonwealth . lessius hath a better reason , for one of them , he saith , one ought not to practise it , because if one doth , he may be hang'd for it . the mean while , if one can do it so secretly , as not to disturb the commonwealth , ( and then to be sure he shall not hang for it ) in that case it is practicè sequenda , 't is to be practised according to their doctrine . or if not , while it is speculatively true , that the thing it self is no sin ; who that knows this , and hath a mind to kill another , and sees his occasion , will make any scruple of the practice ? yes , ( they will tell you ) the pope hath forbidden it , in that decree of the year 1665. which is set down in the end of the last roman index to their shame be it said , these doctrines are forbidden indeed ; but not as being untrue , not as contrary to god's word , or having any immorality in them : how then ? he saith , they are ad minimum scandalosae , at least they are apt to give offence , ( no doubt they are , if we hereticks come to know them : ) and therefore he charges them upon their obedience to himself , that they must not practise these doctrines . had he said upon their obedience to god , that had been a dangerous word . it would have made them afraid to practise them , even in his own service . he would take heed of that , not to spoil that which may be a useful doctrine . but he forbade it , forsooth , upon obedience to himself , which is such a restraint as the pope may take off when he pleaseth . and how can we tell , when he doth , or doth not , that which is in his power secretly to do or not to do ? we have only this measure by which to judg : he will do whatsoever he sees best for the catholick cause . if he sees it best for the cause , we shall live . if not , you see it is no sin to kill us ; even the pope being judge . so that now we hold our lives at his courtesie . but thanks be to god , that gives us better security than that ; gives us government and laws to protect us : or else , no man here knows how soon he might be laid as our friend is before us . and we thank you , reverend fathers of the society , if you were the men that killed him , as you are the likeliest if we may believe yourselves ; we thank you , that you did not begin with the government first . that you killed him , not the king. there had been a blow indeed . we thank you for not beginning with that . though we have the less cause , if your plot was against the king , and you only took this man away , that you might the better cover it . we thank you at least , though we pay too dear for it , that you have made the people know your religion ; that you have alarm'd the state with your practises ; we may live the longer for that , to thank you for it . but then we must remember , we ow this to god , not to you . he it is that hath crossed your design . it is he that hath taken away your covering , and spread reproach on your faces in the stead . we see what you would be at ; if not by this , by some thing else . and if we saw it by nothing else , we know it sufficiently in your writings . when your doctrines are so plain , we have no reason to doubt of your practises . god still deliver us from your bloody hands . god keep england from your bloody religion . this being at present as far as we can go in the discovery ; all that remains is , to return , and to consider our loss , and to lament over it . it was the consequence of abner's death . the king lamented over abner , and the people wept over him again . king david mourned for abner . that was all that he could do . our king hath done more . he hath not only lamented , but proclaimed his sense of it , to the whole nation . he hath done it , once , and again , with all possible demonstrations of his care , and of his concernedness , for the discovery , and for the punishment of this wickedness . where the king hath begun to us , we ought to follow him , as israel did david . we have wept already , we are here to weep over him again . and because i would not keep you long in pain , nor stir you up to fruitless tears , i will endeavour to shew you how it may be a useful lamentation . there is no fruit to godward , but is to be brought forth with patience . and therefore first . i must caution you to that , in this and all other trials . if this horrible fact were committed by those hands , ( which of all other we have reason by all tokens to suspect ) yet have patience , and deal not violently even with them . what by law may be done , i would not preclude , i pray for it . but otherwise , 't is murther in you to kill a iesuit , that thinks it none in such cases as this to kill you. god be thanked , you are no disciples of theirs , but of him whose sacred name they abuse ; that holy iesus ; he hath taught us other rules , he hath shewed us other practises . love your enemies , bless them that curse you , pray for them that despightfully use you and persecute you . these rules , and the like , are the soul of the christian religion . 't is that which softens the heart , and makes it gentle , and tender , and pitiful . and so conforms us to the image of christ , who being reviled , reviled not again ; when he suffered , he threatned not ; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously . indeed , when i consider the temper that is required of all christians ; i cannot but bless god for what i find in the protestant religion . i cannot but reflect on the incredible patience that was found in you at the fire of london . though so many believed , and few very much doubted whence it came ; that it was from the same hands which we justly suspect for this wickedness ; yet there was no tumult rose upon it ; no violence done that extended to the life of any person . you then bore patiently that great loss both of your houses and of your goods . and now it cometh to your persons and lives , still your patience continues . is not this a fair proof of your religion ? i bless god for it ; and pray for the like in other things ; though this one is a great testimony to us , even our adversaries themselves being judges , if they would but consider it . had either of these things been done or happened in any popish countrey ; had the protestants been suspected to have had any the least finger in them ; there had not been one of them suffered to live in that countrey . alas ! without that , what have those poor men suffered ? what have they not suffered , who have had their lot in popish countries ? in france a hundred thousand massacred in a few daies . how many more thousands in ireland in our memory ? not to speak of the like slaughters , in piedmont , and elsewhere . where can they shew the like in countries of our religion ? they might have found it now here , if we had been like them . but blessed be god , we are not so , and i hope shall never be . i beseech you to continue the same patience still ; not lose it for any , even the highest provocation . commit your wrongs to him that judgeth righteously ; and under him to the magistrate , that bears not the sword in vain . the king hath already shewed his care in this matter . follow it with yours , in lawful waies . and if neither of these will do , leave the matter to god. when he makes inquisition for bloud , he will remember them . we shall see it in his time , which is best ; and that by such tokens , that all men that see it shall say , verily there is a god that judgeth in the earth . next , since we ought to imitate those whom we praise ; let us follow our friend , in those things which were praise worthy in him . i might enlarge this in sundry particulars , for he had not a few exemplary virtues . but i must not enlarge beyond those that are of present consideration . let us first endeavour to right him in the injuries that he has suffered , and then not shrink from our duties for fear of suffering the like our selves . for the first , he was ready to do all right to others , especially if they had been so handled as he was . if any other , if his murtherers themselves , had been used thus , he had been the man to have righted them ; by all lawful means to clear the innocent , to discover and to punish the guilty . this duty is now yours , every one in his place , to do all that possibly he can , to right his memory , to discover his murtherers , and to bring them to due punishment . i need not much exhort you to this ; and therefore next , for that which may be more needful ; i beseech you to follow him in this , not to shrink so far from your duty as to fear them , he feared them not for your sakes . 't is true , he suffered for it , he lost his life . but let the devil get nothing more by that . he hopes , and it seems to have been his design , to deter you from your duties , for fear if you be too forward , he may stir up others to serve you in like manner . well , but that will not certainly follow . they will not alwaies find men unprovided , nor alwaies ready to be drawn into traps . you see they have awakened the government , i hope this will also awaken you. oh how happy should we be , ( though we paid so dear for it , ) if we could gain this by what we have lost ; if all would be so vigilant , so resolved , that they might not know which to take next ; if for one sir edmund godfrey , whom they have taken away , we might see twenty , yea a hundred such justices in this city . and why not ? the english spirit is generous and bold , as well as it is compassionate and gentle. they may be perswaded or misled , but they are not to be frighted , or threatned ; not easily into their duties , i hope , much less out of them . that , i trust , will never be . especially , if we remember the good providence of god , which is the third thing . if we look up to him , that hath secured us against so great and so many dangers . he that delivered me from the bear , and the lion , ( saith david ) he will deliver me from the hand of this philistin . we may argue likewise ; he that saved us in eighty eight , he that saved us from the gun-powder plot , he will deliver us from this cursed conspiracy . he will give us this fruit of our loss , and of all their machinations against us . who knows , but , in the end , it may prove a fatal blow to themselves ? this , together with other things , which are now under consideration , may occasion a fair riddance of all that faction out of england . it may so happen to them , as the apostle foretold it would to the iews , when they persecuted the christians at thessalonica , that they would but fill up the measure of their sins , that wrath might come upon them to the uttermost . i pray rather for their conversion . but whether that will ever be ; whether the one , or the other , we must leave that to god. and lastly , look to our selves , that all our ways be pleasing in his sight . if so , he is able to secure us against all others : but otherwise there is nothing can secure us against him. except he keep the city , the watchman wakes but in vain . but if he be on our side , we need not fear what man can do unto us . therefore cleave we to him , with all our hearts , and souls . hold fast that which he hath committed to our charge , the gospel of christ. when god sees truth on our side , nothing can make him against us , but sin. therefore watch also against sin , shew the truth of your faith by your works , adorn your holy profession with a holy life . so living , death can be no surprize to us , even such a death , or worse , if worse can be , let them kill our bodies , abuse them , mangle them , as this is , or worse ; let them burn them , and throw our ashes whither they please ; we lose nothing by it . at last , all shall meet again in a happy and blessed resurrection . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a48835-e280 heb. xi . 4. rev. vi . 10. iudg. xix . 30. a 1 sam. xiv . 50. b iosepho 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c ios. ant. iud. lib. 7. c. 1. ioseph . ib. 2 sam. iii. 9 , 10. 2 sam. iil . 11. verse 13 , 14 , 15. 2 sam. iii. 20 , 21. ioseph . ib. 2 sam. 3. 27. ioseph . ib. 2 sam. iii. 27 , 30. ioseph . ib. 2 sam. iii. 28 ▪ &c. psal. xc . 10. temburin . lib. 9. cap. 2. sect. 2. n. 4. doubts whether it be any sin. lovan . theses , anno ▪ 1645. make it but a venial sin. franc. amicus , in curs . theol. tom. 5. disp . 36. sect. 7. n. 118. adam . tanner . theol. schol. tom . 3. disp . 4. q. 8. n. 83. lessius de jure & just. lib. 2. c. 9. dub . 8. sect. 47. si nomini meo , &c. moralium quaest. tom . 2. tract . 29. c. 3. sect. 52. si quis detrahat falsis criminationibus apud viros honoratos — possit occidi , quando aliter famae damnum averti non potest . filliuc . lessius de jure & just. lib. 2. c. 9. dub . 12. sect 1 81. filliuc . ib. majora mala in rep. sequerentur . lessius de jure & iust. lib. 2. c. 9. dub . 8. sect. 47. — talis in rep. bene constitutâ ut homicida plecteretur . mat. 5. 44. 1 pet. 2. 23. rom. 13. 4. psal. 9. 12. psal. 58. 11. 1 sam 17. 37. 1 thes. 2. 16. psal. 127. 1 ▪ 118. 6. a seasonable discourse shewing the necessity of maintaining the established religion, in opposition to popery lloyd, william, 1627-1717. 1673 approx. 63 kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from 14 1-bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : 2005-10 (eebo-tcp phase 1). a48829 wing l2693 estc r20499 12402798 ocm 12402798 61317 this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons 0 1.0 universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase 1, no. a48829) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set 61317) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, 1641-1700 ; 767:21) a seasonable discourse shewing the necessity of maintaining the established religion, in opposition to popery lloyd, william, 1627-1717. fell, john, 1625-1686. [2], 25 p. printed for henry brome ..., london : 1673. includes bibliographical references. ascribed to william lloyd by wing and mcalpin coll.; ascribed also to dr. fell. cf. halkett and laing. reproduction of original in huntington library. created by converting tcp files to tei p5 using tcp2tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between 1473 and 1700 available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the 25,363 texts created during phase 1 of the project have been released into the public domain as of 1 january 2015. anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. 5% (or 5 pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of 100 instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level 4 of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p5, characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng catholic church -england. catholic church -controversial literature. church and state -england. great britain -politics and government -1660-1688. 2003-11 tcp assigned for keying and markup 2003-12 spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images 2005-02 john latta sampled and proofread 2005-02 john latta text and markup reviewed and edited 2005-04 pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a seasonable discourse shewing the necessity of maintaining the established religion , in opposition to popery . london : printed for henry brome , at the gun in s. paul's church-yard . m dc lxxiii . 1. his majesty having found it necessary for the good of his affairs by his declaration to grant a freedom to all sorts of dissenters from the church of england to exercise their religions , and to suspend the execution of all penal laws against them , none can doubt but that the papists against whom the penal laws were most sharp , are and will be watchful to improve it to their advantage , so much the more industriously setting themselves to seduce protestants , since they may now securely own and defend their perswasions , and even their priests openly act in all parts their function , which was before no less than capital in any of his majesties subjects . if the industry we expect from them meet not with a proportionable zeal in all true protestants , it will not be hard to conjecture the success of a vigorous and industrious attaque , and a faint and negligent defence . and therefore i think it cannot be unseasonable to offer a few motives to the stirring up the zeal , and awakening the prudence of all such protestants as fear god , and love the king , the church , or themselves , as well as to arm them with some arguments for their own confirmation in the grounds of protestancy , in opposition to popery . 2. the first consideration shall be that of duty to almighty god , who has made us members of a christian church , in which we may assuredly find salvation if we continue in it , and live according to its rules and precepts . this christian church our h. mother has no other rule of faith and practice than the holy a scripture , of which , when less was written than we have now in our hands , st. paul b said then , they were able to make men wise unto salvation . it receives for canonical scripture neither less nor more than those books c of whose authority there was never any doubt in the church , giving herein as much deference to universal tradition as any church in the world : much more than the roman does , who obtrudes her particula dictates and most notorious innovations for the fundamentals of the catholick faith. it professes the same faith and no more than what all christians have made the badge and symbole of their profession , namely that which is briefly compriz'd in the d apostles creed , explain'd in those others which is called the nicene and athanasian , and proved by the holy scriptures taken in that sense which is evident in the text to any indifferent judgment , and approved by the consent of the e universal church , the decrees of the first general councils and writings of the fathers . we are members of a church where are used the same f sacraments which christ expresly left in his church , and no other . we worship the only g god , as we are taught to believe in him , and no other . our administration of this worship and of these sacraments is in a h language understood by all those that are concerned in them , being performed with such i rites as are agreeable to the word of god , being for decency and order ; and we use them not as necessary in themselves , but in obedience to that authority which god has given to every particular church over its own members . k our discipline likewise is ●ccording to the scripture rule , and primitive patterns , as far as the looseness of this age will bear ; and if this has weakned the discipline of our church , we believe it has the same effect even in those of the roman communion , and had no less in the church of corinth in the apostles times . and for the l persons who are employed in the ministry of gods worship and sacraments , and in the feeding and governing of the flock of christ , they are lawfully called to their office and ministry , and are consecrated and ordained according to the scriptures , and canons of the universal church : and we shew the succession of our bishops to the apostles of christ , as fully as it can be shewn in any other church at this day . lastly , we are members of a church , which above all other constitutions in the christian world enforces the great duties of m obedience and submission to the magistrate , and teaches to be subject not only for wrath , but conscience sake . in all these respects our church holds a communion with all true churches of christ that are or have been in the world , and is together with them a true member of that holy catholic apostolic church which was from the beginning , and will be to the end . as we pass not severe censures on other churches , though exceedingly erroneous , and are for that charity unworthily repaid by the most criminal , that of rome : so are we excommunicated by none that we know of , but her ; the pope herein dealing with us as he does with all other christians in the n world namely , with most of the european churches , and all in other parts , except those few whom he has gained of late by his missionaries . the common cause for which we suffer is nothing else but the defence of the o faith which was once delivered to the saints , and of that liberty wherewith christ has made us free ; against those additional articles which he would intrude into the one . and that anti-christian yoke which he would impose on the other . the difference between our case and that of our fellow christians who suffer with us is only this ; that they are shut out from heaven as far as the popes censures can do it , for they know not what , many of them , even millions in the remoter parts having never so much as heard of him , or his pretensions , whereas we know them too well by woful experience . it is not much more than an hundred years since that our ancestors were under his tyranny , which as their fathers had insensibly drawn upon themselves , by their deference to the see of rome , from whence the saxons had partly p their conversion ; so they having endured it as long as they were able , after many fruitless endeavours to make it tolerable , at last with one q consent threw the yoke off their necks . our church being thus freed from the usurpations of rome by them who were deeply r immersed in the errors and corruptions of it , the best use they could make of their liberty was this , to restore the primitive purity of the christian faith and worship , which ignorance and interest had fatally depraved . indeed , 't was morally impossible that they should pass untainted thorough so many ages of darkness , when the popes given up to profligate s vice seem'd to drive on no other design but for wealth and dominion , when scarce any in their communion understood the originals of scripture : when those that governed were so jealous of it , that they would not suffer any t translation , but the latine which was overgrown the mean while ( as they now confess ) with many thousands of corruptions . 3. having considered the obligation we have to the religion we profess , it may be seasonable next to reflect on the religion to which we are invited . one that recals us to the idolatrous practice of the heathen world , to u pray unto our fellow creatures canonized to saints and heroes , to worship images , and fall down to the stock of a tree : nay , what in the confession of x coster the jesuite , and some others , in case transubstantiation be not made out , a more stupid idolatry than the worst of heathens were ever guilty of ; the worshipping the consecrated host. now that transubstantiation is not real , we have all the evidence that we are capable of , the testimony of our reason and our senses . the absurd and monstrous consequences of that doctrine will fill volumes , a great part of which are with great truth and justice drawn together by d r. brevint in his late tract entituled , the depth and mystery of the roman mass. we are invited to a religion that takes from us contrary to the express words of our saviours institution y half of the sacrament of the eucharist . to a church that revives the heathen persecution of taking away our z bibles , and would involve every lay-man in the guilt of being a * traditor , the nex step in the account of the primitive church to apostacy from the christian faith. we are invited to a church , that as it takes away the scriptures and half the communion , robs likewise of the benefit of the publick prayers , putting the offices in an unknown † tongue ; insomuch that when about thirteen years ago some of the prelates of the church of france had taken care to translate the liturgy and scripture into the vulgar tongue , pope a alexander the seventh damns the attempt , and under pain of excommunication commands all persons to bring in their books to be publicly burnt . we are tempted to a religion , which contrary to the command of trying all things , and holding fast that which is good , and paying to god a reasonable service , enjoyns an b implicite faith and blind obedience : to a religion that instead of the guidance of the word of god , sets up an c infallible judge and arbitrator of all doctrines , the pope of rome : which instead of the faith once delivered to the saints adds d new articles of faith , which instead of that one propitiation made by christ , and the condition thereof faith and repentance , sets remission of sins upon terms , and proposes that gift of god to be bought with money in the vile market of e indulgences ; for instance f sacriledge is valued at seven grosses , incest five , simony seven , perjury six , murder five , and so on in the tax of the apostolic chancery . we are invited to a church where we must be schismatics that we may be catholics , and adhere to the g roman in opposition to all other ; that is to the catholic church . 't were endless by retail to reckon up the errors and the guilts to which we are invited ; the fond ridiculous rites , the superstitious , burthensom and heathenish ceremonies , the exorcisms and conjurations , the blasphemies and forged miracles , cheats and pious frauds , the lies and stories stupid and impossible as amadis de gaul , the knight of the sun , or the seven champions , witness the golden legend , the lives of the saints , of st. francis , bruno , st. dominic and infinite others , or if we have a mind to a romance of our own , the long tale of a tub which h fath. serenus cressy has lately put out borrowed from father alford ; the improbable , that is , the greater miracles , as he tells us , being omitted because of the unbelief of the heretics ; and yet enow are left to weary the credulity of the most sanguine catholic : wherein also , as he tells us , we may see the faith of our forefathers , and truly we have great reason to thank him for the prospect , which gives us strong inducements in so unjust a competition , to retein our own . notwithstanding all that has been said , there is a sort of pacific writers , who represent the doctrines of the church of rome under a fairer light , and would have us believe they have a better meaning than is usually suggested . and god forbid that we should take things by the worst handle , or make that breach wider , whose closure we should endeavour to make up with a zeal equal to that of the gallant i roman , who threw himself on behalf of his countrey into the gaping gulf. indeed no price can be too great for peace , but only truth ; the which we may not part with for all the tempting charms of charity and love : and god knows , in the present case 't is evident , that the excuses which are fram'd in the romanists behalf are short and frivolous ; nor besides can any man be esteem'd a roman catholic by admitting the doctrines of that church in his own private or some more probable doctors , but in the public sense . and had these undertakers in the catholic cause power to dispense therein according to that candor which many of them make shew of , we might attend to what is said ; but we are well assur'd , that all these fair words can signifie nothing but are merely a bait and snare laid to draw in the easie proselyte : for when he 's reconcil'd and brought into the bosom of the church , these painted shews are presently washt off ; and all concessions immediately retracted ; the convert must then learn the colliers creed , believe as the church believes , and st. peter's key which threw the gate open to admit into the church , will shut the prisoner in : and the child which had a piece of money given him to keep him quiet , shall soon after have it call'd for back again , and be aw'd with the rod , if he repine or murmur . so that , 't will be a frivolous project to talk of a reconcilement with the church of rome , till she first conform herself to truth ; and a conviction , and much more a reformation must here be impossible , where the grossest errors are join'd with an assurance of being free from any ; may , a persuasion of being infallible . 4. the motive which deserves the next place is the safety of the king's person , and the prerogative of the crown , which hath no higher or more necessary appendent than his supremacy in his dominions in all causes ecclesiastical and secular , according to the powers invested in the k jewish kings under the law , and exercised by the first l christian emperours . 't is obviously known how destructive both to itself and the community is the partnership of regal power ; but this must be infinitely mischievous when shared by a foreiner , whose interests are necessarily contrary to those of our prince and nation , as the popes certainly are . but this mischief stays not within the aforesaid bounds ; for the pope is not content with a bare co-ordination , but demands the preference for his spiritual sword , and claims a power to depose kings and dispose of kingdoms . this we learn at large from m bellarmin , suarez , turrecremata , card. perron , thom. aquin. ledesma , malderius , to pass by innumerable others , all whose works were publisht by authority , and so own'd as consonant to the doctrines of the church , to which may be added the pope's definition , who makes it authentic law in these words , we say and define and pronounce that it is absolutely necessary to salvation for every human creature to be subject to the bishop of rome , and this law of pope n boniface the eighth's making he effectually commented on himself , of whom o platina says , that he made it his business to give and take away kingdoms , to expel men and restore them at his pleasure . all which , that it might want no sanction or authority to render it the doctrine of the church , is justified in the third and fourth p lateran council , the council of lions , the council of constance , all which call themselves general , and therefore speak the doctrine of the church . what has been done in this kind since the days of gregory vii . throughout europe would fill a large volume , in the bare narration , whoever has a mind to see those black annals need not consult protestant writers , but read baronius or platina , and there he will satisfie himself . behold at large the last and greater triumphs of the capitol : crowns and scepters and the necks of emperors and kings trampled upon in great self-denial by christ's humble vicar , their realms and countries taken from them and involv'd in blood by the lieutenant of the prince of peace : subjects discharg'd from their allegiance in the right of him , who himself disown'd the being a divider and a judge ; and in a word , the whole world made his kingdom , who pretends his interest deriv'd from our lord jesus , who disclaim'd the having a kingdom of this world. so that it was not said amiss by passavantius , that the devil made tender of all the kingdoms of the world and the glory of them to our lord christ , but he refused them ; afterwards he made the same offer to his viear the pope , and he presently accepted ; with the condition annext of falling down and worshipping . the english reader who desires to be satisfied in matter of fact may please to consul the q history of popish treasons and vsurpations not long since written by mr. foulis , to pass by others who have also dealt in that subject . at present i shall only add that although our neighbouring princes have difficulty enough given them by this universal monarch , who like his predecessors in heathen rome , makes it a piece of his prerogative to have kings his vassals , yet they often help themselves by some advantages which our sovereign is not allowed . the most christian king has his capitularies , pragmatic sanctions , concordats , and the priviledges of the gallican church , to plead upon occasion . and his catholic majesty as the eldest son of the church has several rights of primogeniture , especially in the kingdom of sicily . but the crown of england is not to be treated with such respect : it alas ever since the days of henry the second or at least king john is held in fee of the pope , and we are in hazard to be call'd unto account for the arrear of 1000 marks per an. payable ever since that time : and cardinal r allen has given it for good canon law , that without the approbation of the see apostolic none can be lawful king or queen of england by reason of the antient accord made between alexander the third in the year 1171. and henry the second then king , when he was absolv'd for the death of s. thomas of canterbury : that no man might lawfully take th●t crown , nor be accounted as king , till he were confirmed by the soveraign pastor of our souls which for the time should be ; this accord being afterwards renewed about the year 1210 by king. john , who confirmed the same by oath to pandulphus the popes legate at the special request and procurement of the lords and commons as a thing most necessary for the preservation of the realm from the unjust usurpation of tyrants , and avoiding other inconveniences which they had proved &c. but if this be but the single opinion of a probable doctor , we may have the same asserted by an infallible one , pope f innocent the iv , who before his colledge of cardinals , and therefore in likelihood è cathedra , declares , that the king of england was his vassal , nay , to speak truth , his slave . from hence it is that the succeeding popes have been so free on all occasions of turning out of doors these their tenants upon every displeasure and little pet . not to mention the old misadventures of richard the second , king john , &c. hence it was that t paul the third sent against king henry viii . in the year 1538 , his terrible thundring bull , as the author of the history of the council of trent calls it , such as never was used by his predecessors , nor imitated by his successors , in the punishments to the king were deprivation of his kingdom , and to his adherents of whatsoever they possest , commanding his subjects to deny him obedience , and strangers to have any commerce in that kingdom , and all to take arms against , and to persecute both himself and his followers , granting them their estates and goods for their prey , and their persons for their slaves . upon like terms u paul the fourth would not acknowledge queen elizabeth because the kingdom was a fee of the papacy , and it was audaciously done of her to assume it without his leave : and therefore x pius the fifth went on , and fairly deposed her by his bull , dated feb. 25. 1570. but because the stubborn woman would needs be queen for all this , pope y gregory xiii . let his bull loose again upon her , and having two hopeful bastards to provide for , to the one he gives the kingdom of england , to the other that of ireland nor was she unqueen'd enough by all this , but z sixtus quintus gives away her dominions once more to the king of spain : and after all when nothing of all this would thrive , * clement the viii . sends two breves for failing into england , one to the layty , the other to the clergy , commanding them not to admit any other but a catholic , though never so near in bloud to the succession ; in plain terms to exclude the family of our sovereign from the crown . in the year 1626 , † vrban the eighth forbids his beloved sons , the catholics of england , the pernicious and unlawful oath of allegiance . yet more , in the late unnatural rebellion in ireland the loyal catholics , as now they call themselves , submitted that unhappy kingdom to his aforesaid holmess pope a vrban , to pass by other offers no less treasonable : and after that , as we are credibly informed , pope innocent the x. bestowed it as a favour on his dear sister , and much dearer mistris donna olympia . and sure we have all reason in the world to believe that every thing of this will be done again when the old gentleman at rome is pleased to be angry next , has a mind to gratifie a neighbour prince , or wants a portion for a son , or a favour for a mistris . and as it is , the papists of england have but this one excuse for that mortal sin of obedience to their heretic prince ; b that they are not strong enough to carry a rebellion : and truly 't were great pity these men should be entrusted with more power , who give us so many warnings before hand how they are bound to use it . but to all this the roman catholics have one short reply , that they are the most loyal subjects of his majesty : and have signally approved their duty by their service and fidelity in the last war. to this i say in short , that as bad as popery is , i do not think it can eradicate in all its votaries their natural conscience ; no plague was ever so fatal as to leave no person uninfected that scapt its fury . the case is fully stated by king c james of famous memory , as on one part , many honest men , seduced with some errors of popery , may yet remain good and faithful subjects ; so on the other part , none of those that truly know and believe the whole grounds and school conclusions of their doctrines , can ever prove either good christians , or good subjects . to speak the plain truth , and what the insolent boasts of papists makes necessary to be told them ; whatever was done then , was no trial at all of loyalty . the late rebels found it necessary for the countenancing their cause to make a loud pretence against popery , and to have the benefit of spoiling them : so that the roman catholics did not so much give assistance to the king , as receive protection from him . when they shall have adher'd to their prince in spight of the commands of their holy father the pope , and defended their sovereign and his rights , when it was not their interest to do it , they will have somewhat worth the boasting ; as the case now stands , they had better hold their peace , and remember that the sons of another church served their king as faithfully as they , though they talk less of it . but since they will needs have the world know what good subjects they have been , let them take this short account from the answer to the d apology for the papists , printed an. 1667. in ireland there were whole armies of irish and english that fought against his majesty solely upon the account of your religion . in england it is true some came in voluntarily to assist him , but many more of you were hunted into his garrisons by them that knew you would bring him little help , and much hatred . and of those that fought for him as long as his fortune stood , when that once declined , a great part even of them fell from him . and from that time forward you that were always all deem'd cavaliers where were you ? in all those weak efforts of gasping loyalty what did you ? you complied , and flattered , and gave suggared words to the rebels then , as you do to the royallists now ; you addressed your petitions to the supreme authority of this nation the parliament of the common-wealth of england . you affirmed that you had generally taken , and punctually kept the engagement . you promised , that if you might but enjoy your religion , you would be the most quiet and useful subjects of england . you prov'd it in these words : the papists of england would be bound by their own interest , the strongest obligation amongst wise men , to live peaceably and thankfully in the private exercise of their conscience , and becoming gainers by such compassions , they could not so reasonably be distrusted as the prelatic party which were loosers . if this be not enough to evidence the singular loyalty of papists in the late war , they may hear a great deal more of their vertue celebrated from their petitions and public writings in my e lord orrerys answer to peter welsh his letter and because in those writings they are so ready to throw the first stone against the late regicides , they would do well to clear themselves from the guilt of that sacred bloud which is charged home upon them by the answerer of f philanax anglicus , who has not yet been controuled for that accusation . 5. to this barbarous insolence of excommunicating and deposing kings may succeed the usual consequent of that , but greater prodigy of tyranny , the putting whole nations under interdict , and depriving them of all the offices and comforts of religion , and that generally without any other provocation , than that the prince has insisted on his just rights , or the people performed their necessary duty . history is full of instances hereof . within the compass of one age , i mean the eleventh g century , almost all the nations of europe fell under this discipline , france , england , scotland , spain , and germany ; and some of them several times over ; and so it has gone down in following ages . the nature of the punishment we may learn from h matthew paris , who describing the interdict in the days of king john , which lasted amongst us for six years , three months , and fourteen days . there ceased throughout england all ecclesiastical rites , absolution and the eucharist to persons in their last agonies , the baptizing of infants only excepted : also the bodies of the dead were drag'd out of cities and villages , and buried like the carkasses of dogs in the high-ways and ditches without any prayers or the sacerdotal ministry . one would imagine that he who pretends to hold his empire from the charter of pasce oves , the feeding of christs sheep would find himself concerned not to destroy and starve them , or withhold from them their spiritual food for almost seven years together ; an unusual prescript for abstinence in order unto health . but we may not wonder at all this ; for i pasce oves with a roman comment means all coercion and dominion ; and they who take away the scriptures and half the communion from the layty are not to be controul'd , if they also withhold the other offices of piety . 6. a farther consideration may be the laws of the land , which in case of popery must be content to truckle under the canon law , and occasional bulls of his holiness , or legantine commissions , the proceedings of the courts in westminster veiling to prohibitions and appeals to rome , against which a premunire will be a weak fence in bar to the plenitude of the apostolic power ; and to murmur of dispute any thing will be especially to new converts , interpreted heresie , a word of so sharp an importance , as not to need a comment . there is a tradition that heretofore the gentlemen of the long robe were in that mean estate as to ply at westminster hall gate as now watermen do at the stairs for a fare , let the practitioners in that noble profession consider whether some such thing would not in earnest be the consequent of popery . and the rest of the people of england would do well to think whether they are fitted for a journey to rome , as often as they shall be called thither : i do not mean the divertisement of travel , or devotion of pilgrimage , but the compulsion of citations from that court , where the attendance and expence is not likely to be less than formerly it was , when it occasioned the groans and sad complaints of our fore-fathers ; which though they have escaped , our experimental knowledge sufficiently appear in all our k histories . or should the english law have some quarter given it , and be allowed a little chamber practise , this must be only in reference to the layty . all l ecclesiastics are under a more perfect dispensation , and only accountable to the apostolic see either for their actions or concerns , the benefits of which though the secular priests share in some proportion , the regulars much more liberally enjoy , being owned by the pope m as his souldiers and praetorian bands , listed under the generals of their several orders , maintained indeed at the cost of the countries where they live , but for the service of their soveraign abroad , to whom they owe an entire and blind obedience : and that they may give no hostages to the state where they recide , are forbid to marry . so that if popery should prevail , we must , besides all charges necessary to secure our selves from forreign enemies both by land and sea , constantly maintain a vast army of possibly an hundred thousand men , for such were the old numbers , to assure our slavery to the roman yoke . nor are these priviledges of the church only personal , the places themselves which these religious men possess are hallowed into sanctuaries , and give protection unto any criminal that treads within their thresholds , the most horrid murder or barbarous villany is to have the benefit of the clergy , and if the malefactor have but time to step into a cloyster , he fears no farther prosecution . 7. but besides the inconvenience of submitting to a forrein law , that certain mark of slavery , and the intolerable burthens that attend its execution , it will be of moment to advise how well our property and interest in our estates will stand secur'd : and though when princes are upon their good behaviour , to be disseized of their dominions , whenever they offend his holiness of rome , the pesant or the gentleman have no great reason to expect indemnity : yet should the farm or mannor house be too low a mark for the roman thunderer to level at , 't is not to be imagined the lord abbots and the lands of all religious houses will be past by as trifles . the church is ever a minor , and cannot be prescribed against by time , or barred in her claims , and our holy father out of his paternal care will find himself concern'd to vindicate the orphan committed to his trust . some perchance who enjoy those lands think they need not apprehend any thing , because they hold under acts of parliament : but they who imagine this should consider , that the same strength that can repeal those laws that establish protestancy , may also do as much for those which suppress religious houses : and no body can tell what the force and swing of a violent turn , especicially in england , may produce , where we seldom proceed with coldness or reserve . acts of resumption are not things unheard of in ours , or in forrein stories . nor is the consent of the pope in queen n maries days a better security ; for in case of a change of religion all those grants will be interpreted a bare permission , and that conditional in order to the great end of reclaiming an heretical kingdom , which not being then accepted of , and finally submitted to , will not be thought obligatory when papists by their own skill or interest have gotten the power into their hands . king charles the first yeilded at the isle of o wight that the church lands should be leased out for 99 years , in order to a present peace and settlement of all things , through the interposition of a powerful and violent faction it was not then accepted of : does any may think the obligation of leasing for 99 years remains now ? let our lay-abbots apply this to their case , and then judge whether they upon a revolution will be more secure of their possessions than the late purchassers were ; or whether those purchassers were not as confident of transmitting their acquisitions to their posterity as any possessor of church lands now is or has been . the king of france , not long since has redeemed back to the crown those demesnes which belong'd to it , paying back such sums as were really laid out by the purchasers ; and allowing the mean profits as interest for the money so laid out : which method of procedure has been defended by very considerable arguments to be just and equitable . if the money expended on the church penniworths at the dissolution of religious houses were now refunded , and the advantage of above 100 years profit already received were thrown into the bargain , though the present proprietaries would have an ill exchange , yet there would be so much plausibleness in the grounds of it , as in the zeal and heat of a turn would not be easily controul'd : especially if it be farther prest , that the first claim from the acts of parliament suppressing church lands appear to be not full and peremptory , the lands of the first suppression in the 27 year of henry 8. not seeming to intend an alienation to common and secular uses , but to have been vested in the king in trust , that the revenues might be employed p to the pleasure of almighty god , and to the honour and profit of this realm . as to the second in 31 year of henry 8. the act supposes , and is built upon the alienations legally made by the respective religious houses and corporations , who are said q of their own voluntary minds , good wills and assents without constraint , co-action , or compulsion of any manner of person or persons by the due order and course of the common laws of this realm of england , and by their sufficient writings of record under their covent and common seals , &c. now to the verefying of these particulars a great many doubtful circumstances and nice points of law are easily drawn in as requisite , the suggesting whereof in the forementioned cases however slight and frivolous they may be , no body can tell what force they will have when dilated on by a roman catholic advocate , and interpreted by an infallible legislator . that all this is not an idle dream , suggested to make popery odious will be manifest to anyone who will take pains to read what a french marquess of that religion has lately written on this very subject , who having represented us as a r people without friends , without faith , without religion , without probity , without any justice , mistrustful , inconstant to the utmost extremity , cruel , impatient , gurmandizers , proud , audacious , covetous , fit only for handy-strokes and ready execution ; but incapable of managing a war with discretion . after this friendly character he proceeds to shew by what ways and methods we are to be destroyed , which are first to put us to the expences of a war , and by raising of forces create a jealousie between the king and his people . then to amuse us with fears of invasion . thirdly , to stir up the several parties among us , and to favour one sect against another , especially the catholics , promising secretly to the benedictines as from the king of england , which they will easily believe , that they shall be restored to all that they formerly possest according to the monasticon lately printed there : whereupon , says this worthy author , the monks will move heaven and earth , and the catholics will declare themselves . it will not be material to transcribe the whole design laid down for our destruction by this bold writer , which with all other machinations , the providence of god , and the prudence of his sacred majesty will we hope frustrate . this is enough to shew that there are persons in the world , who can yet nourish hopes of destroying the nation , and repossessing the lands of the church ; and in printed books make a publick profession of them . but if one general act of resumption should not disseize at one stroke all the lay possessor● of church lands , 't is plain that in case of popery by retail they will be all drawn in , for what papist in his last agonies will obtain absolution without satisfaction first made to holy church , for the goods sacrilegiously detained ? or how will he escape the lying in purgatory at least ▪ and frying there for several thousands of years , who instead of having benifit from the indulgencies of the church , is solemnly s cursed and anathematized with the worst of heretics in the bulla caenae , as also the declaration of the council of trent , upon the score of being robbers of the church ? 't is not to be hoped they should have any benefit from the treasure of the church , who have enrich'd themselves with that real and material treasure belonging to her , which is the only price that buys the other . indeed , they who without the plea of a precedent right in few centuries gain'd to themselves a fifth part of the whole kingdom , will not doubt in a much shorter time , having the forementioned pretences to recover it again , even the six hundred forty five abbeys , whereof twenty seven had their abbots peers of england : the ninety colledges , two thousand three hundred seventy four chanteries and free chappels , and one hundred and ten hospitals , t which ( besides the lesser dissolutions of templars , hospitalers , friers alien , and others that preceded ) fell together under the hands of king henry viii . 8. it would be farther weigh'd in reference to the wealth and flourishing of the kingdom , and what is necessarily required thereto , the preservation of trade , and the value of lands and rents that the more popery grows , the more will idleness increase , the more abbey-lubbers , that is , persons exempted from contributing in any kind to the uses of a state either in war or peace , and yet maintain'd as drones on others sweat and labours . the more it encreases , the more will caelibate or single life prevail ; the more daughters will be sent to nunneries abroad , till they can be fix'd at home , the more men will turn priests and friers , and so less people in the nation which already has too few . and that the numbers in those societies may be sure to be full , it is a known and customary practice to entice and spirit away children from their parents into their covents , from whence they cannot be withdrawn without sacriledge . of this abuse complaint was made long ago in behalf of the english nation , to the pope by u rich. fitz-ralph , called armachanus , anno 1360 , though without redress . lay men , says he , refrain from sending their sons to the vniversities fearing to have them taken away from them , chusing rather to keep their sons at home , and breed them to husbandry , than to lose them by sending them to the schools : in my time there were thirty thousand students in oxford , and now there are not six thousand , and the great cause of this decrease in numbers is the aforesaid circumventing of youth . to this accusation x william widford , a begging frier , makes answer in his apology for his order , by undertaking to prove , that it is very lawful to entice children into their covents without their parents consent . since the reformation , what arts have been used to people the seminaries abroad , is a thing too notorious to need an account , if any desire satisfaction therein , he may have it from mr. wadworths english spanish pilgrim . by this engaging of the youth in monasteries and nunneries there will be as many more idle hands , so by the more holy-days which will be kept there will be the less work done ; consequently what is done will be so much the dearer , an ill expedient for promoting of trade , for four days work must perhaps maintain a man and his family seven . the more popery encreases , the less flesh will be eaten , a third part of the year being one way or other fasting days , besides particular penances , as good an expedient for rents , as the former was for trade . to salve this , i expect the papists should tell us , that great numbers of forreiners of that religion will come and live among us , and supply by their numbers the other inconveniences : but the english artificers and merchants are already sensible of the mischiefs which those interloping strangers which are here already do among us , and desire no new colonies : besides , 't is obvious to any common understanding , that if the admission of popery bring in forreigners , the discouragement of protestancy will in greater and more disadvantageous proportions drive out natives : and though it be not certain who will gain by the change ; 't is manifest that the true english interest will be a loser by it . 9. but to proceed , popery will bring in to private persons a vast expence in masses , diriges , mortuaries , penances , commutations , pilgrimages , indulgences , tenths , first fruits , appeals , investitures , palls , peter-pence , provisions , exemptions , collations , devolutions , revocations , unions , commendams , tolerations , pardons , jubilees , &c. paid to priests , the pope and his officers ; which upon computation amounted to three millions per annum , a great part thereof carried out of the kingdom in a time when the indies had not fill'd it with gold and silver . the tyranny was so intolerable , that the whole nation protested against it in their letter to the council of y lyons , anno 1245. wherein among other things they declare that the italians received hence yearly above sixty thousand marks , besides all other payments to the see of rome , and carried out of the kingdom a greater revenue than had the king , who was tutor to the church ; and was to support the charge of the state. which complaint yet had no other answer than delays , and a severe example to terrifie them , immediately made upon the emperour frederick the second , against whom his holiness innocent the iv , then pope , to use the words of the acts of the council , z pronounced and thundred out the sentence of excommunication , not without the horrour and amazement of all hearers and by-standers . only the annats or first fruits of bishopricks as they were computed in * parliament , anno 1532. in a few years came to an hundred sixty thousand pound sterling ; it would be endless to audit the whole account . as england was by the popes stiled an † inexhaustible pit , so was there no bounds set to the industry of them who attempted to drain it . after a sad complaint of the rapine , avarice , and tyranny of the pope and his officers among us , a matthew paris breaks out into these words , we might there see heart-breaking grief , the cheeks of pious persons drown'd in tears , the doleful moan that they made , and the sighs which they multiplied , saying with bleeding groans , it were better for us to die , than behold the calamity of our country and pious people of it . woe to england , who heretofore was princess of provinces , and ruler of nations , the mirrour of excellence , and pattern of piety , is now become tributary , vile persons have trampled upon her , and she is a prey to the ignoble : but our manifold sins have procured these judgments from god , who in his anger for the iniquity of his people has made a hypocrite and tyrant to rule over them . if almighty god should for the like provocations put us again under the same egyptian task-masters , we need not doubt of the self-same usage . but now , for all this expence , 't is pleasant to examine what is to come back to us in exchange ; even parchments full of benedictions and indulgences , store of leaden seals , beads , and tickets ; medals , agnus-dei's , rosaries , hallowed grains , and wax-candles , such traffic that an indian would scarce barter for ; such pitiful gauds , that would hardly bribe a child of a year old ; and yet this is the goodly price they offer for all the wealth of a whole nation . 10. after this tyranny over our estates in the particulars rehearsed , there is a very remarkable one behind , which will well deserve to be considered : it is b auricular confession , where not to mention its ill aspect upon government , as being made an engine of state , and picklock of the cabinets of princes , sealing up all things from the notice of the magistrate ; but making liberal discoveries against him ; hereby not only the estate , but soul and conscience of every private man are subjected to the avarice and rapine , and withal the humour and caprice , the insolence and pride , nay , lust and villany of a debauched confessor ; every mortal sin upon pain of damnation must be confessed , and when the penitent after great anxieties has freed himself from this disquiet , he must submit to the penance , however rigorous , or chargeable , or foolish , which the priest enjoyns ; he and his family are entirely in the power of this master of their secrets . and if this awe and empire however grievous , were the whole inconvenience 'twere something tolerable , it being to be hoped , that so severe a remedy would affright from guilt ; but the very contrary happens , vices of the foulest kinds are hereby procured to : the priest takes often benefit of the sin which he absolves from , and having the advantage of these two points , that the person whose confession he has taken has lost modesty , and that he can absolve from the crime , it will be easie to perswade the repetition of that sin , which his breath can easily blow away and render none . i shall not here mention on the other part the perfunctory penances , which seem only imposed to invite to sin again , and those authorized by a most authentic pattern , that of the popes themselves , for what markets may we not expect from a poor priest , when his holiness in his c tax of the apostolick chancery has valued the most horrid crimes at so easie rates as a few grosses , or a julio , and eighteen pence or half a crown compounds for the foulest most abominable guilt . nay , when a visit to a privileg'd shrine or altar , and the bare recital of a short prayer purchases pardon for 100 , 500 , 546 , 6646 days . nay , for 7500 , 10000 , 1000000 years according to the grants of several popes , to be seen for our great comfort and edification in the d horae b. virginis . so that the story of that plump confessor , who for six acts of adultery is said to have enjoyn'd the repetition of six poenitential psalms , and when 't was told him that there were seven of them advised the votary to commit ▪ adultery once more , and repeat the whole number , may seem a very severe act of discipline , and besides a full attonement for past sins supererogation for future ones . so that vice being brought to this easie rate , besides all other misadventures , unless we will stand for the honour of being cuckolds , and have our posterity share the title which is proverbial in popish countrys , to be fils de prestre ; it will concern us to look about us , while 't is time , and prevent these vile dishonours which are preparing for us . if it shall be said , that 't is not imaginable men should pervert so sacred an action , as the receiving of confessions to those purposes of villany that are suggested . i answer first , that we may without breach of charity suppose that thing possibly to be done , which is notoriously known to have been done : as also , that the horrour of the crime is competently allayed by their doctrine , who think only marriage , and not e fornication inconsistent with the dignity of a clergy-man . and therefore the nephews of great clergy-men and popes have in all ages been own'd and preferred , and moreover , f fornication has been allowed to priests and friers in compensation for their restraint from marriage , three or four whores as part of their spiritual preferment . i say , all this being put together , there will be little hopes to preserve honour in families , where so many circumstances concur together to betray it . 11. after all this there still remains a farther reason why we should resist the growth of popery , even the most pressing that can be urged , self-preservation , to avoid imprisonment and inquisition , fire and fagot , massacres , racks , and gibbets , the known methods by which the romanists support their cause , and propagate their faith. should that sect prevail , the nonconformist shall no longer complain of a bartholomew-day , the parisian vespers , which bore that date , will be resumed again , and silence all complaints of them or us : and as his holiness thought fit to celebrate that barbarous villany , calling together , as g thuanus tells us , his cardinals solemnly to give thanks to almighty god for so great a blessing conferred upon the roman see , and the christian world ; nay , a jubilee was to be proclaimed through the christian world , whereof the cause was expressed to give thanks to god for destroying in france the enemies of the truth and of the church ; there may be found on this side the sea men who will imitate the princes of the holy league , who upon such encouragements from the see of rome , and for the greater glory of god , will be ready to consecrate their hands in a massacre here with us . it is vulgarly known what was done to the poor albigenses and waldenses : how many hundred thousand of lives the planting of the roman gospel in the indies cost : what cruelties were practised in the low-countries by the duke d'alva , what bloud in this island in the days of queen mary , what designed to be shed in the powder treason , and that by the privity and direction of the pope himself as h delrio informs us in spight of all the palliations that are now suggested : who withal adds , that his holiness clement 8. by his bull a little before that time gave order that no priest should discover anything that came to his knowledge in confession to the benefit of the secular government : it seeming safer to these good men to break all the obligations of duty and allegiance , though bound by oaths , than violate the seal of confession , or put a stop to that meritorious work at one moment to destroy their soveraign , with all his royal family , his whole nobility and senate , and subvert the government of their native country . but we need not seek for instances without our own memories , the carriage of the i irish rebellion , where the papists in a few months cut the throats of about two hundred thousand innocent protestants of all sexes and ages , cannot be yet forgotten . which act was so meritorious as to deserve from his holiness a most plenary indulgence for all that were concerned in it , k even absolution from excommunication , suspension , and all other ecclesiastical sentences and censures by whomsoever , or what cause soever pronounced or inflicted upon them , as also from all sins , trespasses , transgressions , crimes , and delinquences , how hainous and atrocious soever they be , &c. nor let any man be so fond to hope for better terms , or liberty of conscience , if popery should now prevail . let us look into the world , and we shall see on all hands , that nothing is any where suffered to grow either under or near that sect. where protestantism has been so strongly fix'd as not to be batter'd down at once , it has by degrees been perpetually undermin'd : witness the proceedings against them in poland and hungary and several parts of germany , the late persecutions in the vallies of piedmont , and the methods used in france to demolish their temples , and disable from employments , and almost exclude them from common trades . i need not enquire what is now done in vtrecht and other acquisitions of the french upon the hollander ; this we are sure of ; whatever articles are , or can be made of favour and compliance , 't is somewhat more than a probable l doctrine , that faith is not to be kept with heretics . the jesuited romanist is at large by equivocations to say any thing , and by directing of intention to do any thing : they can with a very good conscience dissemble their own , and pretend to the protestant profession , come to the devotions of heathen idolaters , and that from express licence from his holiness pope clem. viii . upon account of which we may , says m tho. a jesu , be present without any scruple at the rites and divine offices of infidels , heretics and schismatics . nay peter n maffeius makes it his boast , that ignatius loyola imitated the devil in all his tricks , cheats and cunning , to convert souls : and how his followers have transcrib'd that pattern the world does know . yet farther they some of them at least can set up a new gospel , where there is not one word of the cross of christ ; can worship heathen idols with that pitiful reserve of having in their sleeve a crucifix , to which they privately direct their adoration : all which as they are notorious for , being complained of to the o pope , so are they uncontroul'd for ought appears and permitted by him . indeed what conversation can there be with these men who are under no obligations of society , no character of notice or distinction ; who at the same time are priests and hectors , casuists and artificers , presbyterians , anabaptists , quakers , theists , atheists , and amidst all this very good catholics . let any honest sober man judge what kind of religion this is , in it self , and how fit to be encourag'd and submitted to . 12. to close up all that has been said ; from uncontroulable testimonies and proofs , we have seen the influence which popery has either heretofore or may hereafter have amongst us in all the great concerns of our religion , our prince , our laws , our property , our country , our families and lives ; and found it evidently destructive unto all : the inference from whence can be no other , but that if we have any love of our religion , any abhorrence of the grossest superstition , error or idolatry , any regard for the safety of his majesty , any care of our laws or our estates , any concernment for the strength , the wealth or numbers of our nation ; any desire to hold the freedom of our conscience , the virtue and the honour of our families ; and lastly , any care of self-preservation , to escape massacres , and the utmost rage of persecution ; it will behoove us to beware of the prevailing of that sect , in whose successes we have reason to expect to forfeit all these interests , perish our selves , and bequeath idolatry and beggary and servitude to our posterity . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a48829-e90 a art. 6. b 2 tim. 3.15 . c artic. 13. cousins schol. disc. d a●t . 8 e jewels apol. f art. 25. catechism . in the lit. g art. 1. h 1 cor. 14. 6 , 7 , 8. i 1 cor. 14. 40. preface of cerem . to the litur . k art. 33. commin . in the litur . l book of ordain . art. 36. mason de min. ang. bramhal . m art. 37. king charles letter to the prince . n bulla caenae . o jude 3. gal. 5. 1. p ethelbert and some others of the south of england . q an. 23. of hen. 8. by the advice of the parliament and convocation . r herb. hist. of hen. 8. speed. baker , &c. s guicciard . 16. luitprand . l. 2. c. 13. baron . ad an. 9●8 . concil . const. sess. 11. genebr . ad an 901. t sixt. v. & clem. ● . in the prefaces of their book . u concil trident . sess. 25. bell. de imag. l. 2. x coster , enchirid . controvers . c. 3. de euch p. 308. concil trident . sess. 13. bell. de euch. y concil . constance , sess. 13. trid. sess. 21. bell. de euch. l. 4. z index lib. prohib . reg . 4. bell de v●rto dei . l. 2. * optat. milevitan . l. 1. cont. parmen . † missal . rom . approbat . ex decret . concil . trident. & bullá pii 5. cherubini bullar . tom. 2. p. 311. a extrait du p●ocez verbal des assemble general du clerge du fran. tenue à paris ●s an. ●660 . & 661. b bell. de rom . pont . l. 4. c bellar. de eccles l. 3. d jude 3. e bellar de indulg l. ● . f taxae cancel . apost . g bellar. de eccles. l. 3. h church history of britany . i curtius . k david . hezek . &c. l const. theod. justin. &c. m bell. de rom . pont . l. 5. suar. aud. eud. johan . resp . ad casaub. p. 12. suar defens . sid cath l. 3. turre●rem . sum . eccl . c. 14. thom. aquin. 2.2 quaest . 12. art. 2. ledes . theol. mor. tract . 7. malder . com . in d. thom. 2. 2. quaest . 1. n extravag de majoritate & obedientia c. 1. unam sanctam . o platin. in vit . innoc. 3. p concil . later . can . 27. tom . concil . 27. p. 461 concil . lat . 4. can. 3. tom. 28. p. 161. concil . lugd. 1. sess. 3. tom. 28 p. 424. concil . const. sess. 17. tom 29. p. 458 , and 469. q hist●ry of popish t●easons and usurpations . r admonish . ●● the nobility . f mat. paris , an. 1253. t cherubini bullar . tom. 1. p. 704. hist. conc. trent , l. 1 an. 1538. u hist. conc. of trent . an . 1558 x cambd. eliz. an. 1570. cherubini bullar . tom. 2. p. 303. y thuan. l. 64. cambd. eliz. an. 1578. z cambd. eliz. an. 1588. * cambd. eliz. an. 1600. † dat may 30. 1626. foulis p. 725. a lord orrerys answer to peter welsh his letter . b watsons quodlibets , p. 255. out of bannes , valentia , and others . c king james his works , p. 504. d pag. 14. e pag. 14 , 15 , &c. f pag. 59. g baron . cent . undecim . h an. 1208. i platina in vita , greg 7. k roger hovd . in hen. ● . mat. paris , ib. l concil . trident . sess. 25. m hist. concil . trident. l. 2. n 1 and 2 of philip and mary . o treaty at the isle of wight . p cap. 28. q cap. 13. r traitte de la politique de france , c. 14. p. 283. s concil . trid. sess. 22. bullae caenae . in bullario gherubin . passir● . t herbert hist. of hen. 8. speed , &c. u sermon preached before the pope and cardinals at avenion . x indefensorio . y tom. concil . 28. p. 460. z pag. 462. * herb. hist. king hen. 8. p. 330. † mat. paris anno 1246. a anno 1237. b concil trid. sess. 14. c taxi cancel . apost . d horae b. vir. p. 73 , 84 , 76 : 40 , 73 , 79 , 72 , 56 , 80 , &c. e sleid comm . l. 4. f cornel. agrip. c. de lenocin . g thuan. hist. l. 53. h disq. magic . l. 6. ● . 1 . sect. 2. i lord orrery . p. 29. k pag. 61. l concil const. myst. jesuitism m de convers . infid p. 854. n in vit . ignat. loyol . o palafox bp. of angelopolis in his letter , to pope innoc. x. a letter to dr. sherlock, in vindication of that part of josephus's history, which gives an account of iaddus the high-priest's submitting to alexander the great while darius was living against the answer to the piece intituled, obedience and submission to the present government. lloyd, william, 1627-1717. 1691 approx. 71 kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from 21 1-bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : 2008-09 (eebo-tcp phase 1). a70476 wing l2686 estc r4385 12414459 ocm 12414459 61625 this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons 0 1.0 universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase 1, no. a70476) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set 61625) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, 1641-1700 ; 767:17, 792:31) a letter to dr. sherlock, in vindication of that part of josephus's history, which gives an account of iaddus the high-priest's submitting to alexander the great while darius was living against the answer to the piece intituled, obedience and submission to the present government. lloyd, william, 1627-1717. [4], 33, [2] p. printed for thomas jones ..., london : 1691. half title: a letter to dr. sherlock, in vindication of his late book, entituled the case of allegiance. advertisement: p. [1]-[2] at end. reproduction of original in huntington library and duke university library. includes bibliographical references. created by converting tcp files to tei p5 using tcp2tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between 1473 and 1700 available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the 25,363 texts created during phase 1 of the project have been released into the public domain as of 1 january 2015. anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. 5% (or 5 pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of 100 instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level 4 of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p5, characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng overall, john, 1560-1619. -bishop overall's convocation book. wagstaffe, thomas, 1645-1712. -answer to a late pamphlet entituled obedience and submission to the present government. sherlock, william, 1641?-1707. -vindication of the case of allegiance due to soveraign powers. sherlock, william, 1641?-1707. -case of the allegiance due to soveraign powers. taylor, zachary, 1653-1705. -obedience and submission to the present government. allegiance -early works to 1800. 2007-04 tcp assigned for keying and markup 2007-05 apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images 2007-07 angela berkley sampled and proofread 2007-07 angela berkley text and markup reviewed and edited 2008-02 pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a letter to dr. sherlock , in vindication of that part of iosephus ▪ s history ▪ which gives an account of iaddus the high-priest's submitting to alexander the great while darius was living . against the answer to the piece intituled , obedience and submission to the present government . london , printed for thomas jones at the vvhite-horse without temple-bar . m dc xci . a letter to d r. sherlock , in vindication of his late book , entituled , the case of allegiance . a letter to dr. sherlock , &c ▪ sir , you desire to know what i have to say to the objections that are made by a late writer against the authority of josephus , in what he says concerning the submission that was made to alexander the great by jaddus the high-priest of the jews , and against the use that is made of it by some that have written in defence of the oath of allegiance to their majesties . first , against the story it self ; the objector saith , it is very suspitious , on two accounts : first , that no author besides josephus and his followers , mention any such thing . secondly , he sets forth the difficulty of reconciling it with chronology : to which he adds , that there are several inconsistences in the story it self . secondly , the objector saith , that if the story were true , yet it would not prove the point for which it is alledged . to consider what he bringeth under these heads , we shall begin with what he saith of the suspiciousness of the story . to prove this charge , his first argument is , because no author besides josephus , and those that had it from him , mentions or takes notice of any such thing . this argument lyes against all that josephus has written of the jewish affairs , within the historical time of the heathens , except what he takes out of scripture , or out of the books of the maccabees ; for we have no other ancient jewish history . if there had been any other jewish historian that had written the things of alexander's time , and said nothing of this story of jaddus , nor of jaddus himself , ( for his living then is questioned by our objector , ) then indeed there had been great occasion to say , that their silence had made this story suspicious . but when there is no jewish writer that pretends to write a history of those times , in this case to argue against the authority of josephus , only from the silence of heathen historians ; this seems to be very unjust and unreasonable . who knows not that the heathens generally contemned and hated the jews , as being not only revilers of their gods , but enemies to all the rest of mankind ? hence it came to pass , that those writers he mentions , have scarce ever named the jews in their histories . but josephus design'd nothing more than to give us a history of the jews . how then should his credit be impeacht by the silence of heathen writers ? especially in a matter which they would be sure to conceal , for that very reason that he had to mention it , namely , because it made for the honour of his nation . it was the same reason , that they had to pass by all the miracles of christ and his apostles . should we therefore grant the story of these to be suspicious , because the heathen writers of those times take no notice of any such thing ? we ought to take heed of such arguments as an adversary may make use of against the gospel it self . but if it were true that our objector here says , that those heathens tell us the clean contrary to that which we have from josephus , there might be something in this contradiction , tho not in the silence of heathen writers . but perhaps the objector might mean , that the account of those historians is contrary to that of the author , against whom he writes . for this author , as he cites him , ( i know not how truly , ) saith , that from tyre alexander came directly to jerusalem . that indeed doth not agree with the account that is given us by the historians he mentions . but josephus doth not say this : he tells us , that alexander having besieg'd tyre seven months , and then taken it , came forward to gaza , and took it after a siege of two months ; and then hastened to jerusalem , which submitted to him , as also did the neighbouring cities . this consists very well with what we read in those historians . for tho they agree , that from tyre he went directly to gaza , yet after the taking of that city , they do not say that he went presently into egypt ; he might stay long enough to go to jerusalem , which was about fifty miles distant , and receive the submission of that and the neighbouring cities , before he went into egypt . i say he might well do this , according to diodor's account , who saith , * that having settled things about gaza , afterwards he sent away amyntas with ten ships for macedonia , and then went with his army into egypt . this being not contrary , but very consistent with the account that we have from josephus , there is no farther cause of suspicion on this head . the next is the difficulty of reconciling it with chronology ; nay , this is not all the objector tells us , for he saith afterwards , there are difficulties that have perplext all chronologers : and at last , * there are insuperable difficulties in this story . where are they ? for i confess i do not see any difficulty . he tells us , in the ages of the persons , pag. 9. mighty ages , not in the least mentioned by any historian : namely , that sanballat lived to above 145 , and jaddus to above 124 , years of age . but doth josephus say this ? not in words , nothing like it . but it must come to this , if the objector reckon true . and if he misreckons for josephus , he deals as ill with the scripture , only he doth not charge it with suspition on this account . but according to the scripture , as he understands it , ezra must have lived to a much greater age than either of those before mentioned . the objector * will have ezra born about six years before the babylonian captivity , and to have seen the first temple yet standing ; and 59 years after this , viz. in the first year of cyrus , to have return'd from the captivity . so that then ezra was 65 years of age by his reckoning : from thence to the seventh year of artaxerxes longimanus , are seventy nine years ; so that then ezra must have been one hundred and fourty four years of age , according to our objectors account . and yet it is certain , that in that year of artaxerxes , ezra made a journey from babylon to jerusalem * ; and it is as certain , that he lived 13 years after that , namely till the 20th . of artaxerxes ; and then , according to our objector , he must have been 157 years of age ; and yet , as old as he was , that very year * he led the procession up stairs and down stairs about the wall of jerusalem . he might live many years after this , as we may judge by his strength of body in that exercise . but if he dyed that year , being 157 years old , as he must be by the objectors reckoning ; he that finds no difficulty in this , or takes no notice of it , for fear of reflecting upon scripture , ought not to call that story in josephus suspitious , because of the difficulty of reconciling it with chronology . but in vain do men talk of reconciling differences , where there are none but of their own making . they that take ezra to have been born before the captivity , judge so for this * reason ; because it is said , that he was the son of seraia the high-priest , that was kill'd before the captivity : but in like manner , seraia is there made * the 17th . from aaron , that lived near a thousand years before . the meaning of these words is , that seraia was descended from aaron , ( and so ezra was from seraia , ) not immediatly , but with others between , that are not mentioned . and so johanan the high-priest is called * the son of eliashib , who indeed was his grand-father , and his father was * jehoiada , that is not there mentioned . this is a common way of shortning pedegrees , which if the objector had considered , he would not have run himself into that difficulty of ezra's age , which , tho he takes no notice of it , is much greater than those are of which he complains . and yet these that he complains of are difficulties of his own making , and proceed only from an eager desire to find faults in that story in josephus . if this had not blinded his eyes , he might have seen , that , admitting that story to be true , yet there was no necessity of making either jaddus or sanballat live to so great an age. first for jaddus , who ( as he saith ) must have been 124 years old at the taking of tyre , the objector proves his age by these steps . first he takes it for granted , that jaddus was high-priest at the time when the book of nehemiah was written ; but he takes this only as * probable , and therefore by his own confession , all can be but probable that he builds on it . next for the time when that book was written , it must have been before nehemiah dyed ; that is certain . but when did he dye ? the objector tells us from briet , that he died the last year of longimanus , who reigned 41 years . but to what end doth he tell us this ? for he himself could not believe it , as appears by his words . for saith he , i think the least we can allow for the time of nehemiah's living after he ended his book , is 30 years ; and it is very probable it was much more . well , say but 30 years , and account that upward from the time of his death according to briet ; and then nehemiah's writing of his book will be in the 11th . year of artaxerxes , that is , his book was written 9 years before any of those things happened that are written in it . now this i think the objector could not mean , and therefore he doth but amuse us with that idle quotation . howsoever , as if he had prov'd something by this , he infers from it ( i know not how ) that jaddus was high-priest the last year of artaxerxes . grant him this , and he has no more to ask . for then , jaddus being 30 years old , to this add 94 ( which is the time from the death of artaxerxes , till alexander's coming to jerusalem , ) and then jaddus , at that time josephus fastens this story , must have been 124 years old . q. e. d. but tho i do not see which way he proves this , i see very clear reasons to the contrary , which i think are unanswerable . first , that the book of nehemiah was not written , till after the death of artaxerxes longimanus : secondly , that jaddus was not high-priest at the death of artaxerxes ; nor probably born then , nor long after , till the end of darius nothus . first , that nehemiah did not write in any part of artaxerxes's reign , but either in or after the time of darius his immediate successor : this is certain ; for in his book he mentions * the reign of darius the persian . i think none will say he did this by the spirit of prophecy . but to come nearer the point , i insist upon it , that he writ after the reign of darius . so the hebrew words shew , that he writ when that reign was expired ; for there it is said , that the heads of the levites , and also the priests , were recorded , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 over or throughout the reign of darius . it appears , that the words are so to be understood , by what followeth in the next verse , where it is said , that the heads of the levites were recorded in the book of the chronicles 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 till the days of johanan , that is , till he came to be high-priest . i take nehemiah's meaning in those two * verses , to be thus in short : having given account * of the heads of the priests that were in the time of jeshua the high-priest , and afterwards ‖ of them that were in the time of his son joiakim ; having also given account ‖ of the heads of the levites that were in joiakim's time ; he thought some account would be expected of them that were in the days of the following high-priests : therefore he inserted these * two verses , wherein he tells us , that as for the levites that were in the days of eliashib , joiada , johanan , and jaddua , the heads of those levites , and also the priests , all that were in the reign of darius nothus ▪ were recorded in the book of chronicles ; but afterwards the priests were not recorded , but only the heads of the levites ; and those , only during the high-priesthood of eliashib and joiada who were then dead , but not of johanan , who it seems was then newly come to be high-priest , when this book was written . as for jaddua , he is mentioned , both ‖ here , and before ‖ in this chapter , not as being high-priest then , ( how could he in his fathers days ? ) but only as being then living , and heir apparent of the high-priesthood ; so the words are understood by the most learned ‖ primate , who was as well a great chronologer , as a good textuary . it may be said , that if this interpretation be true , nehemiah must have lived to a very great age. no doubt he did so ; for he was cup-bearer to king artaxerxes , in the 20th . year of his reign . we may suppose nehemiah to have been then about 25 years of age ; after that , he lived to see the high priesthood pass from father to son for four generations : and he saw a fifth coming in view , namely jaddua , whom we suppose to have been then about 30 years old . all this might very well be , if nehemiah were born 470 years before christ , and writ in the year 347 before christ . then he was about 104 years old according to our reckoning , which is not so incredible an age , as that of ezra's being 157 years old when he went in that clambering procession according to the account of our objector . secondly , for jaddus his being high-priest at the time of artaxerxes's death , which our objector makes the ground of his calculation , i have shewn he has no ground for his affirming of this , and that might suffice for an answer . but besides , that it is groundless , it is also highly improbable . for if this had been true , there must have been living and dying no less than 5 high priests in one direct line , from father to son , in the space of two and twenty years . first , his grand-fathers grand-father joiakim , was high-priest within the time while nehemiah ‖ was governour ; that is certain . but his government began in the twentieth year of artaxerxes . it appears , that joiakim dyed the same year ; for his son eliashib ‖ was high priest at the time when the wall of jerusalem was building . and he was high priest ‖ in the 32d . year of artaxerxes . eliashib continued much longer , as i understand it ; but suppose he dyed that very year , there must be some time allowed for his son joiada after him , and then for his grand-child johanan ; for both these were high-priests , as has been already shewn . but after the 32d . of artaxerxes , there were but eight years more before the end of his reign . we have scarce known a change of five popes in the time that this objector allows for so many to come and go in a hereditary succession : and then the age of jaddus being considered , ( of which our objector saith when he came to be high-priest , the least we can allow is 30 years , and it is very probable it was much more : ) if it was but 30 years , then the age of joiakim when he dyed , must have been at least 90 years ; his son eliashib at least 62 ; his son joiada near 70 ; his son johanan near 60 ; and each of these , as the objector saith , it is very probable much more ; and four of these must have been born when their fathers were but 20 years old . if any one of these things did not happen , then our objectors ground-work fails ; but that all things happen'd thus , i think there is no probability . but on the other hand , there is nothing improbable in that account which i offer'd before : jaddus might have been born any year before his father johanan came to be high-priest , ( at which time i conceive with very good ground the book of nehemiah was written ; ) and yet jaddus might have been mention'd as he is in that book . but i supposed him born 30 years before , in compliance with the most learned primate , who ‖ reckons that jaddus might be about 83 years old at his death . so he judged by comparing the scripture together with josephus's antiquities . i attribute very much to his judgment in these matters : but not to rest upon that only , i have also consider'd the years of the high-priests above-mentioned . they are recorded in the chronicon paschale ; but i think better in georgius syncellus ; who tho he doth not quote his author , yet is reasonably presumed to have transcribed them from julius africanus ; an author that lived little more than 100 years after josephus , and living in the same country , might have his information from them that knew as well as iosephus himself . in placing the years of these priests , i begin from the death of jaddus , who is said ‖ to have died about the same time with alexander the great : reckoning from thence upwards , the death of joiakim will fall in the 20th . year of artaxerxes ; which exactly agreeth with the account of his death that i have given from scripture . and indeed there is nothing said of any of these priests , either in the holy scripture , or in josephus , but what very well consists with the account of their years that is given us in this catalogue . that you may the better judge of this , i have given you a short view of their years , compared with those of the kings of persia , as they are in ptolomy's canon . yaars before christ . beginnings of persian kings , and of iewish high-priests . 445 — in nisan nehemia came from susa for jerusalem ▪ after his coming thither joiakim dies . 444 — his son eliashib high-priest , 34 y. 424 — darius nothus , 19 y. 410 — ioiada , 36 y. 405 — iaddus born . artaxerxes mnemon , 46 y. 374 — iohanan 32 y. nehemiah writ his book . in iohanan's time bagoses was governour . 359 — ochus , 21 y. 342 — iaddus , 20 y. 338 — arses , 2 y. 336 — darius codomannus , 4 y. he sent sanballat to samaria . 332 — alexander takes tyre and gaza . ierusalem yields to him . 330 — darius dies . 323 — alexander dies , and iaddus . having shewn that the age of iaddus has no difficulty in it , we are next to consider what there is in the ages of sanballat and manasses . for the first of these , he is spoken of by iosephus , with that care which one would have thought might have prevented this objection . for whereas the objector proceeds upon a supposition , that the sanballat in iosephus , is the same that was the adversary of the iews in the twentieth year of artaxerxes ; and if that were true , then indeed he must have been ( as the objector would have him , ) much above 120 years old in alexander's time ; to prevent all suspicion of this , iosephus described him by those characters by which we may be sure he was not the same sanballat . however , the objector is pleased to a say , that iosephus doth not intimate any such thing ; he doth more than intimate , he tells us plainly in his description ; first , that this was a chuthaean , of that race from which the samaritanes came , that b is , from chutha beyond the river euphrates ; and farther , c that this man was sent to be governour of samaria by the last darius , who was driven out by alexander the great . now who would have thought that this d chuthaean should have been mistaken , for the moabite of e horonaim , whom nehemiah found there in palestine 100 years before in artaxerxes his time ? i call nehemiah's sanballat a moabite , for he is join'd with tobia the ammonite f almos● 〈◊〉 oft as he is mentioned : and as nehemiah observeth , g th●● the israelites were particularly forbidden to marry with moab and ammon ; so he h gives instances of the breach of this command in the priests marrying into the families of tobia and sanballat . that horonaim was in moab , i have shewn above in the ( see e ) margent . for the strangeness of it , that there should be two of a name ; that would not have stuck with the objector , if he had considered that there were two artaxerxeses , and three dariuses in his view . but those were kings , and they might take names from one another : to go lower therefore , he might have found two ezra's and two nehemiahs ▪ in those times ; one of each ‖ came up from captivity with zorobabel ; and again one of each was in the government almost one hundred years after . there is no strangeness in this , but that any man should be so senseless to think these two pairs were but one ezra and one nehemiah . lastly , for manasses brother of iaddus , iosephus saith , that he marryed a heathen woman , nicaso the daughter of sanballat the chuthaean , which occasioned a breach between the brothers , and thereupon a schism in the church : this manasses setting up another temple at mount garizim in opposition to that at ierusalem . the objector , to find a fault in this story , makes many . for , first , he confounds this brother of iaddus , with his uncle that is mentioned by nehemiah , ‖ in the end of his book . nehemia there calleth him , one of the sons of ioiada the son of eliashib the high-priest , which is plain enough to shew , that he was younger brother of iohanan the father of iaddus : but no matter for that . the objector to make iosephus a lyar , makes bold with the scripture it self : he is pleas'd to give this uncle of iaddus the name of manasses , which ●●●hemiah never thought of : and he will have this man to be brother of iaddus ; he calleth him so as oft as he mentions him . and the wife that he marryed , who was daughter of sanballat the horonite , must be the same with nicaso the daughter of sanballat the chuthaean . and in consequence of all this iosephus must be a liar , who writes of things as done in the time of darius codomannus , which were done long before ( as our objector saith , ) in the time of artaxerxes longimanus . but with his leave , iosephus knew what he writ , as it appears by his fixing the time of this story : there was no date of time better known among the iews , than that of the building of their temple at jerusalem ; nor among the samaritans , than that of the building of the temple of garizim . they remembred nothing more , than the destruction of their temples : it was a thing in every ones mouth , our fathers worship'd in this mount , said a the woman of samaria to our saviour . and no doubt , if they had any records or any histories , the times of these things were chiefly remembred in them : but it was within 200 years of iosephus his time , that the temple at mount garizim was destroyed by iohannes hyrcanus . it happen'd at a memorable time , being soon after the death of antiochus pius , ( which was in the year before christ 130 ▪ ) then that temple was destroyed , saith iosephus , b 200 years after the building of it . how long that temple stood , and when it was destroyed , none knew better than the samaritans themselves . and as they were enemies to the iews , so they must be particularly to that author , who provokes them as oft as he mentions them . how then durst he have put it in their power to disprove him , as they certainly would , if this had not been true ? i take it therefore for certain , by their account as well as his , ( accounting 200 years upward from the destruction , ) that their temple was built in the year before christ 430 , which falls in the time of alexander the great , and not as the objector would have it , in the time of artaxerxes longimanus . what saith the objector to this ? he c tells us from david ganz , that the iewish chronologers do affirm , that the temple on mount garizim was built long before the times of alexander ; and that all the time of alexander , simeon justus was high-priest ; which simeon was the grandson of iaddus . the objector tells us afterwards , that calvisius , and not only he , but all chronologers , find iosephus ' s errors and mistakes concerning those times so many and gross , as would make any man that acted upon principles of sincerity , very fearful to use an example taken out of him in matters of practice . i believe the objector acts upon principles of sincerity in other things ; notwithstanding that he seems to forget them in his quotations . in these i must needs say , he gives great suspicion of the contrary , by omitting those words that make against him in his own authors : of which i shall give a clear proof by and by , and i doubt not you will find the like in other places of his book . but whereas he bringeth all chronologers on his side against iosephus , he should have excepted all the best , both ancient and modern ; and among them particularly our excellent primate , who followeth iosephus in every part of this story . i allow him indeed the iewish chronologers , who are as much the enemies of iosephus as he is himself ; for they have the like quarrel against him , because he breaks all their measures . but yet the iewish chronologers will not help the objector in his cause . they will not make iaddus live to 124 years of age , and sanballat to 145. they are so far from that , that they scarce allow either of them any age. for they make d the whole time of the second temple at ierusalem , 'till the sixth year of alexander the great , to be but 34 years . and in that sixth year of alexander , they say that he came up against ierusalem ; and that iaddus the high-priest , and all the elders of israel came forth to him ; and that they made a covenant with alexander ( tho' darius was then living . ) this story fills up most of that e very page , that our obiector quotes in his margent . only there the high-priest is called simeon the just . but that this makes no difference in the story , he might have seen in the passage f next before , where ganz tells us of this simeon the just , that his name was iaddua . and for the building of the temple at mount garizim , which as the objector saith , g the jewish chronologers affirm to have been built long before alexander ' s time : his ganz tells us , h that some of their writers have said so ; but he disproves them , and affirms of a certainty , that it was built in alexander's time , and by his permission . he doth indeed confound the two sanballats , the chuthaean and the horonite , and makes manasses to be the priest that was deposed in nehemiah's time . this might be excused in a iew , that reckons that act of nehemiah but 4 years before the reign of alexander the great : but is not to be allow'd one that reckons one hundred years between , and takes upon him to correct iosephus by christian chronology . but besides these difficulties in chronology , which i have proved to be none ; the objector saith , there are several inconsistencies in the story it self , noted by salian . that iesuit was an enemy to the very name of iosephus , for scaliger's sake . but without engaging in the quarrel between them , i take the inconsistencies as they ly here before me . object . the first is , that iosephus saith , the phoenicians and chaldaeans , who followed alexander , when he came against ierusalem , thought to have plunder'd the city . now saith the objector , how should he have chaldaeans in his army , when as yet he had not taken babylon , nor come near to chaldaea ? answer . he might have chaldaeans in his army , of those whom he had taken at issus , many of whom turn'd over to alexander , and served him , as he i told darius in his epistle . but i confess i know not why these chaldaeans should be named together with the phoenicians , as if these two nations should be eager for the spoils of ierusalem , above all the rest that were in alexander's army . there must be some particular reason for this eagerness in these two nations above others : and that probably either for their own especial gain , or for some national spite against the iews . and indeed for the phoenicians , the first of these reasons is plain , because they had the chief sea-ports , and the trade of that part of the world. therefore tyrus said of old k against ierusalem in the time of nebuchadnezzar . aha! she is broken , — — she is turned unto me : i shall be replenisht , when she is laid waste . the same hope they might have now again . but this being a reason peculiar to the phoenicians ; no other nation could be so intent upon the spoils of ierusalem , but only for spite , and that was not to be imagined in the chaldaeans ; who after so long acquaintance as they had with the iews in their captivity , were kinder to them than any other people , and have continued so ever since . but these here spoken of must be enemies of the jews ; and who should they be of all the nations that alexander had in his army ? of all the nations in the world none so likely as the samaritans . and of them iosephus told us lately before , there were 8000 sent by sanballat , that were now in the army . but when iosephus speaks of these people in anger , he commonly calleth them chuthaei ; which is so near the word chaldaei , that i cannot forbear offering this as an emendation of the text : for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 write 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and then there is no inconsistency . the next thing might very well have been spared ; for there is no inconsistency in it : that the iews when they had found favour with alexander , should ask the like favour for their brethren that were in babylon and media . those countreys , tho alexander had not yet conquered , yet it could not be doubted , that they would be shortly in his hands . and that iaddus askt favour for them , and that alexander granted it , or rather that he promised it , ( for so the greek word signifyeth ; ) they are much to seek for faults ▪ that can find them in so clear a passage as this . but such another is that which next followeth , viz. that the army was astonisht to see alexander worship jaddus . well they might : though it was but civil worship ; it was a wonderful thing , that so great a king should give it to a priest , or to any other humane being . but the fault is , that josephus should put it in parmenio's mouth to ask alexander , wherefore he should adore another , that was himself ador'd by all . it is judg'd by salian , and the objector , an inconsistency , to say that alexander was ador'd , or that he believ'd himself the son of jupiter , before his coming into egypt , &c. yet those learned men could not but know that adoration was paid to eastern princes , that did not believe themselves the sons of jupiter . it was so far from this that it was not confin'd to crown ▪ d heads . josephus * tells us in this book , that haman , being the king's favourite , as oft as he came to court , had adoration paid him by all , as well strangers as persians . how much more should it be paid to alexander himself by them of the conquer'd nations ? no less than the mother of darius , when she was taken prisoner at issus , and alexander came to give her a visit , receiv'd him * with this ceremony . she perform'd it indeed , by mistake , to hephaestion that came with him , because he made a better figure , and when she understood her mistake , was much out of countenance , till the king himself told her it is no mistake , he is alexander . but i have not read that he told her he would not be treated with that ceremony . it seems therefore he did suffer himself to be ador'd , even before his going into egypt : and therefore what josephus tells us , of parmenio's saying those words , might be true for ought we know ; howsoever he might have said them without any inconsistency . the things in these two last answers are so plain , that i cannot think how it came to pass that the objector did not see them : unless it be that josephus had offended him so much , that he was too greedy of objections against him , and did not regard what might be said in his vindication . in this angry humour he runs on in the next page . and there he calls in calvisius to be his second . he could not have found a fitter man to take his part . for he had a quarrel of his own against josephus , for writing such things as would not consist with his chronology . but that was scaliger's fault , that had crampt that part of his chronology , by beginning daniel's 70 weeks in darius nothus his time . in consequence of that , he must make nehemia's artaxerxes to be mnemon instead of longimanus : and the darius that he mentions must not be nothus , but codomannns : and if nehemiah liv'd till codomannus his time , so might his sanballat as well : and then why should not the priest that nehemiah depriv'd , be manasses , the same that is mention'd in josephus ? all this both scaliger and calvisius are for ; and our objector if he pleas'd might have quoted them for these things . but then his arithmetick would have been of no use : for sanballat's 145 years would have been but fourscore , manasses ▪ might have been a young man , and jaddus of middle age ; and so there had been an end of all his insuperable difficulties . those two learned men were so far from seeing any difficulty in the story of jaddus , as josephus tells it , that they take it for unquestionable history . but why then doth the objector bring in calvisius , as if he were of his side in this argument ? he will say he doth not , here is no mention of jaddus . very well , but here are hard censures on josephus , which being brought in in this place , tho' they do not belong to it , may serve as well as if they did : though calvisius intended them for things wherein josephus differ'd from him , yet the reader may apply them to that story wherein he agreed with him . if the objector dealt candidly in this , he doth not so always . we have a great instance of the contrary in his shuffling and cutting with the convocation-book . he against whom he writes had urg'd the example of jaddus , for something which the objector doth not like ; and to give the more credit to it , he saith ( as here he is quoted ) that whether the story be true or no , the convocation seems to believe it . he gives very good reason to judge so , because they have inserted part of it into the convocation-book . they have indeed taken in all that the objector throws out , concerning sanballat , and manasses , and jaddus ; and they * expresly quote josephus for it as their author ; though by making his sanballat the same with nehemiah's , it appears that they follow scaliger and calvisius in their chronology . but for the story , which is so much contested by our objector , they not only take it for an undoubted truth , but they reason upon it as to matter of practice . our objector saith well , that men that have any care of their souls will hardly venture to act upon one single example , and that also voucht but by a single and suspicious author . they may do well to think of this , that go in untrodden ways , and yet damn all them that will not follow them . but it is upon the single example of jaddus having sworn to darius , that the convocation saith , that the jewish high-priests were bound to the kings of persia by an oath , when they were made high-priests . and they add this * judgment upon it , that if any man affirm — that jaddus the high-priest did amiss in binding his allegiance to king darius by an oath , or that he had not sinn'd if he had refus'd ( being thereunto requir'd ) so to have sworn — he doth greatly err . it is plain that they affirm this upon one single example , and that also voucht but by a single authority . they do indeed profess they do not * hold it canonical no more than the books of the maccabees and other ancient historiographers ; but neither did they judge it ( as our objector doth ) to be of suspicious authority . he was aware how much their judgment would be preferred before his , where he differs from them . and therefore finding them against him in all he hath said of the suspiciousness of this story , he is now for compounding the matter . as far as this story will make on his side , he is content they should believe it ; provided they will give up that part of it for which he hath rejected the whole . that is , he is content they should take josephus for a good author , only as far as his authority makes for the not-swearers . an easy reader may be persuaded to this ; but not without some shew of proof . and therefore he tells you , they of the convocation mention , and thereby approve , jaddus his answer to alexander , that he had sworn allegigiance to darius , and therefore could not violate his oath so long as darius lived . from hence the objector infers , that their sense is , that an oath of allegiance was binding to a prince so long as he lived , and had not given up his right , tho he was beaten in the field , and fled before his enemies . this is what the objector would have . but the sense of the convocation will best appear by their own words ; and thus they go on * with the story : alexander by gods providence having vanquisht the persians ; ( that is , having * overthrown darius the king of the persians , upon which the monarchy of the graecians began , ) the jews amongst many other nations became his subjects . he dealt favourably with them , releast them of some payments , viz. from paying tribute on the sabbatical years , and granted them liberty to live according to their own laws . these last are the words of josephus in that very chapter which was quoted before in the convocation book ; and the things here spoken , were done by alexander then when he was at erusalem , two years before the death of darius . in consequence hereof , the convocation declare their * canon , that if any man shall affirm , — that the jews generally , both priests and people , were not the subjects of alexander after his authority was setled among them , as they had been before the subjects of the kings of babylon and persia , — he doth greatly err. what the convocation did mean by the setling of an authority , they shew * in these words , viz. when it is either generally received by subjects or setled by continuance . , the disjunctive is as plain in these words , as it is in those of bishop buckeridge's , which are fairly quoted by the objector , p. 27. but not fairly repeated in the bottom of that page . it was plainly their judgment , that both these were not necessary , but that either of the two might suffice , for the setling of an authority . but alexander had one of the two , that is , the general subjection of the people ; whereupon , without the other , they were his subjects according to the convocation-book , as much as they had been before the subjects of darius , though he was yet living . but this will not go down with the objector . he saith , for the other part of the story , of jaddus submitting to alexander while darius was living , the convocation take no notice of it . they do not name jaddus indeed . but what saith he to these * words , that the jews generally both priests and people were the subjects of alexander ? those words seem to be intended chiefly of jaddus , at least they take him in among the priests and people . but then saith the objector , it doth not any where appear , that they ( the convocation , ) thought darius was then living . no : doth it appear , that they thought what they writ ? their book saith , he by flight escaped , when his army was discomfited . and tho they do not say , he was living when alexander came to jerusalem , yet no learned man can be ignorant , that he lived two years after this . but the convocation were not concern'd whether he were living or no , any longer than while the people of god were under his dominion ▪ the changes of governments over the jews , was the thing which the convocation were to consider . and now upon this change of government , they tell us , that the jews , both priests and people , being subjects of alexander , ( whether darius was living or dead , ) they were bound to pray for the long life and prosperity both of alexander and his empire , as they had been bound before to pray for the long life and prosperity of the other kings and their kingdoms , while they lived under their subjection . therefore when they were no longer in subjection to darius , it was all one to them whether he were living or dead . from what hath been said , the answer is plain to his question , concerning submission to a possessor of power , notwithstanding an oath to a lawful king , who is alive , and insists upon his right , whether it be argued from the story or from the convocation-book ? it may be from either or both , for ought that he hath said to the contrary : the story hath been clear'd from all suspicion of falshood , that he hath endeavour'd to fasten upon it . the convocation-book hath spoken for it self , and hath much more to say ; but this little is enough to shew our objector , that he might better have let it alone than brought it into this controversy . after all he comes to this , that grant the story true , it is not to the purpose it is urg'd for . how so ? because this of jaddus is a singular and exempt case . what he did was by especial revelation from god ; who , as josephus says , appear'd to him in a dream , and warn'd him to submit to alexander , and to meet him in that solemn manner as he did . he is aware , that there is a prejudice against this ; namely , that prophecy was then departed from the jewish church . this is certainly true : malachi having given them * warning , that the next prophet that should come , would be elias . but the objector shifts off this , by telling us , that when there were no more prophets , yet still there was an inferior degree of prophecy , which lasted for a long time , as the bath kol , and probably some other way , as by dreams , &c. to make way for these , he tells us , it was always the custom in the jewish church , in cases of great extremity , to have recourse to god for some express revelation what they should do . this is more than the jews knew , or they did not think of it , at that time * when judas maccabaeus being slain , there was a great affliction in israel , the like whereof was not since the time that a prophet was not seen among them ▪ for then they took meer humane counsels , without looking for any express revelation . that in such distresses , they used fasting and prayer , was to seek god for deliverance , as hath been used in all ages . and thus josephus tells us , the jews did at this time when alexander was coming against them . they fasted and prayed for a deliverance . thus far there is nothing strange in the history . but then mark what follows . the next night god appear'd to jaddus , and order'd him so to do ; that is , so as he told us before , namely , to submit to alexander , and to meet him as he did . here he would make us believe we have a wolf by the ears , for whether we admit this , or deny it , we are in his danger either way . if we deny this part of the story , why may not the objector as well deny all the rest ? but if we admit it , then it is wholly beside the purpose : for saith he ( with his usual civility ) if these gentlemen will shew us any express revelation for what they do , as jaddus had , then they say something : but 'till they can shew that , this example , if true , will do them no service . he hath oblig'd me so much with this complement , that i cannot chuse but admit , that here was an express revelation . but i cannot grant him his consequence , till i see how it follows from the premises . in order to this , he should have told us what revelation it was that jaddus had , and what use it was for : and then have shew'd that we have the like occasion , before he had required us to shew the like revelation . but since he is so short in his account of these things , i must be the longer in considering them more particularly . first , take every thing as the objector would have it , namely , that jaddus had a revelation from god , that he should submit to alexander , though darius was living ; and notwithstanding his oath by which , as jaddus formerly thought , he was bound to the contrary . if jaddus was then in the right concerning the obligation of his oath to darius , the thing that he was now put upon was the horrible sin of rebellion , aggravated with perjury , and whatsoever else the objector thinks fit to load his brethren with : only this of jaddus he tells us was a singular and exempt case , for he was put upon it by divine revelation . but even in this case , there would have been something else necessary to engage the people to go along with him in this submission . for since now they were to look for no prophet more , till the coming of elias , as malachi * told them , but were left under a strict charge to remember the law of moses with the statutes and judgments ; this change of their allegiance from darius to alexander , being as the objector will have it , rebellion and perjury , than which nothing can be more contrary to the law of god ; how could jaddus hope to bring them to this , by telling them only that he had a revelation from god ? he could not pretend to it , without making himself as great a prophet as those were by whom those precepts were given . and then he must prove it , by shewing such signs as those former prophets did : otherwise the jews were so far from being bound to believe him , that they were to look upon him as a false prophet , and as such to put him to death . we see how ready the jews were to execute this upon our saviour , as oft as he seem'd to teach any thing contrary to their law , though he did prove himself a prophet by the working of miracles . but josephus doth not tell us , that jaddus did any miracle ; ( if he had , we ought not to have believed him ; ) and yet the jewish church at that time , was so far from stoning jaddus for pretending this revelation , that they all join'd with him in submitting to alexander , even while darius was living . and therefore we may be sure , that this revelation was not against their common and standing rules , as our objector would have it . it was so very agreeable to them , that if the matter of the revelation were as he reports it , there could be no reason given why jaddus should have a revelation , but this , that god saw it necessary for the correcting of that former error of jaddus , by which , if he had run on it , and stood out pertinaciously against alexander , ( as some do against their present majesties , ) it had been a certain way to have destroyed the jewish church . blessed be god , that hath preserv'd our church , by letting us see , that our submission is so agreeable to the rules of our religion and to the practice of his church in all ages , that there is no need of proving it to be our duty that way which the objector requires , namely , by an express revelation . but what if there was nothing of submission to alexander in the revelation that was made to jaddus ? then those words upon which all his argument moves , namely , the words to submit , were thrust in by the objector . if he did this by mistake , he may easily correct it , by reading the place in josephus . there he will find nothing of any revelation that iaddus had to submit and to meet alexander : there was no occasion for it . for thus far he had determin'd already , before the prayer and fasting , upon which he had this revelation . these are iosephus his words ; alexander having taken gaza , made haste to go up to jerusalem . the high priest jaddus upon the hearing of this , was in an agony of fear ; being at his wits end to think how he should meet the macedons ; the king being angry at his disobedience formerly . it seems he was resolved to have no more anger on that account , but to make his peace by an humble submission : and therefore he was in care how to meet the macedons , saith iosephus . who thus goes on , having therefore order'd the people to make supplications , and himself with them offering sacrifice to god , he besought him to protect the nation , and to deliver them from the imminent dangers . it is plain , that these were prayers for deliverance , and not for a revelation , as the objector is pleas'd to say . but was there not a revelation after this ? yes , it follows , that after the sacrifice , when he was gone to bed , in his sleep , god bad him be of good courage ; and let them crown the city , and open their gates ; and for their meeting , ( which they had resolved before , but were in care how to do it , so as might move the kings favour or compassion , ) let them go , ( saith he , ) the rest in white garments , but he with the priests in those vestments which the law hath prescrib'd , and be confident they shall suffer no evil , for that god will provide for them : here is every word of the revelation ; in which , god that best knew what a dream he had sent to alexander before his coming out of macedonia , now orders iaddus to put himself into that dress in which alexander had seen him in that dream . this was a likely way indeed to strike an awe into the conqueror , and to make him reverence the priest of that god by whose conduct he had gotten those victories . and it had that effect , as josephus tells us . alexander did acknowledge this was he that first invited him over into asia . i saw him then ( saith he , ) in the same habit : — i never saw any other in such a robe : and now seeing him , and remembring my dream , i am satisfyed it was god that sent me on this expedition , &c. it appears that jaddus had a direction from god in what manner he should meet alexander , so as not only to pacify his wrath , but to recommend himself into his favour . for the command of submission , which is not in iosephus , there was no need of that , for the people had determined to submit , being not able to resist . but if it had been as the objector imagins , yet it would do him no service , as i have sufficiently shewn : and therefore after all that he hath said , this story of iaddus affords us a very good unquestionable instance of the judgment of the iewish church in his age ; that it is lawful to submit to a prince that comes in by conquest , and that it is our duty to pay allegiance to him as his subjects , when he is setled by the general consent of the people ▪ notwithstanding an oath to a former king who is yet living . one thing the objector hath to say against this , which i think was put out of it's place , and ought to come in here for a reserve . in case it appear'd that the story of iaddus was not only true , but to our purpose , then it had been time for him to tell us , that all this is nothing to him and his party . they care not what iaddus did , they know what they will do . he saith this in effect , in the following * words , the practice of the high priest in that corrupt state of the jewish church , will not signify much to us , and no more in this , than in their other immoralities . this was frankly said , but i think not very ingenuously . first , he speaks as if iaddus were single in this act of submission ; when it is evident , that the whole church of god at that time , went along with him : and the iews generally , both priests and people were subjects to alexander , in the words of the convocation book . he tells us of that corrupt state of the jewish church in jaddus's time : this is news . all ancient writers speak of those times as the best that ever were under the second temple . the church was much reform'd by those excellent men that flourished in the age next before ; namely by nehemiah the governour , ezra priest and scribe , and malachi the last of the prophets . at this very time , beside iaddus himself , whom the jews * make the last of the men of the great synagogue ; there was also b●nsira , as * they tell us , a shining light to the israelites , and one that much advanc'd the honour of our god. after them was onias the high-priest , and his son simon , whose praise swells a * chapter in ecclesiasticus . his branding of those excellent men , and the church of god in those times , may teach us to bear the characters he gives us the more patiently . so likewise , when he saith their practice will signifie no more to us in this , than in their other immoralities . the meaning is , there must be other immoralities in them that differ from him in his point . so here we have a test , to try who are ▪ and who are not honest men. yet i dare be bold to say , he never found iaddus charged with any immorality whatsoever . nor we have not found him in any error but this , that he thought himself bound to darius while he was living . this was an error indeed , if he meant as the words strictly signifie . for an oath of allegiance to any king , can bind one no longer than while he is that king 's subject . it doth not bind , saith the * objector , in case of cession or submission . nor , say other divines , in case of conquest : and iaddus , when he became subject to alexander , was plainly of this later opinion , by which he explain'd or corrected what he said formerly . now iaddus being a man of that high place in the church , of so clear a repute ever since in all ages ; what should make the objector and his party ( which i hope is not great ) make so light of such an eminent and venerable example ? he tells us iaddus becoming a subject to alexander contrary to his oath , is no more a pattern for us to follow , than eliashib ' s building a chamber in the temple for tobia , is an argument for us to act contrary to the express laws of god. this is home to the purpose , and being said at the first , might have sav'd him and me all this trouble . now all the question is , whether jaddus acted contrary to his oath to darius , in becoming a subject to alexander . to judge aright of this question , we must consider what circumstances he was in at the taking of this oath , and how they were chang'd at the time of his submitting to alexander . first , he was a subject to darius before the taking of this oath : and by it he gave no other right to darius , than what he had before , he gave him only a greater assurance . secondly , the right that darius had over the iews , was no other than what descended to him from cyrus : and that was by his conquest over the babylonians , that were their former lords . thirdly , that right of conquest being descended to this darius , was won from him by alexander , that had overcome him in war , and so made himself lord of that country , and so alexander now had the same right to their allegiance which darius had before . fourthly , his right to their allegiance being ceased , their oath to him was of no obligation : but they were as free , and had as much reason to pay their allegiance now to alexander , as they had formerly to darius or cyrus . this seems to be the ground that iaddus went upon . and if it was , he had reason to think he did not contrary to his oath . for he kept it to the last , till there was no such king as he had sworn to : and then , having no revelation to guide him , he yielded to the providence of god , in submitting to him that had won the kingdom from darius . the objector having said , because he will have it so , that this submission of iaddus was contrary to his oath ; goes on , and compares it with that fact of elashib , which the scripture it self saith , was contrary to express laws of god. and therefore he would have us take heed of following iaddus for our pattern ; as if we were as well assur'd of what he saith , as we are of what we read in the scripture . he values his own opinion too much , that would impose it upon others at this rate . and yet he that will not submit to it , falls under all the heavy censures of his book . they must be deserters of principles , and guilty of rebellion and perjury ; and why not ? should we think to come off better than iaddus who is condemned already , and with him all the iewish church of that age. but all other churches of god have done like them , as oft as they have come into their circumstances . i do not except that which he fills his book with namely the iewish church in iehoiada's time ; for they were in much different circumstances , as i doubt not you will shew . he cannot pretend to shew , that any other church hath done otherwise then that under iaddus , which he hath condemned already . he will shortly see , that they are all against him in this cause ; and then we are to expect the like judgment upon all churches , iewish and christian ; unless the objector think better , and change his mind , or at least forbear such unjust and uncharitable censures , which i wish he may both for his own and for the churches sake . this i hope will be the fruit of your answer to his postscript , which is earnestly expected by sir , your friend and servant . f a catalogue of books sold by thomas jones at the white-horse without temple-barr . i. sir john chardins travels into persia , &c. folio . ii. a moral essay upon the soul of man : containing , 1. the preference due to the soul above the body , from the reason of it's spiritual and immortal nature . 2. of our duties of religion and of morality , whether towards god , whether towards our selves , whether towards man , and of our duty of all gospel self-denial ; which result from the manner how our souls are and operate in our bodies under the visible empire of god. 3. concerning our duties of time and eternity , of the present life and of the life to come , of the present world and of the world to come ; which result from the manner how our souls ought to be out of our bodies , first of all ; and then in our spiritualiz'd bodies after the universal resurrection . octavo . iii. a pious office for sick and weak persons ; wherein many directions and useful instructions are given them ; with supplications , prayers , and meditations , proper for their condition ▪ octavo . iv. weeks-exercise . twelves . v. in the press , a choice collection of lessons for 2 and 3 flutes . with an addition of aires , in three parts , for violins , &c. notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a70476-e200 * diodor. sic. edit . 1559. p. 566. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . * p. 11. * p. 17. * ezr. 7. * neh. 12. 36 , 37. * p. 8. * ezr. 7. 1. &c. * neh. 12. 23. * 12. 10. * p. 7 ▪ p. 7. * neh. 12. 22. * v. 22 , 23 ▪ * neh. 12. 1 , 7. ‖ v. 12. 21. ‖ v. 8 , 9. & 24 , 25 , 26. * v. 22 , 23. ‖ v. 22. ‖ v. 10. ‖ vsser . ann. a. m. 3589. ‖ neh. 12. 28. ‖ neh. 13. 1. ‖ neh. 13. 28. ‖ vsser . annal. a. m. 3602 ‖ jos . ant. x● . ending . a p. 9. b jos . an. 9. 7. c jos . an. 9. 14. d ib. 9. 7. e es . 19. 5 jer. 48. 3 , 5 , 34. f neh. 11 10 , 19. &c. g neh. 13. 1 , 23. h ib. 4. 28. ‖ neh. 13. 1. ●● ▪ 11. 2. ‖ ch . 13. 28. p. 6. a iohn iv . 20. b p. 10. c ios . ant. xiii . 17. d ganz . p. 57. & 64 e p. 59. f ganz . p. 58. g p. 10. h p. 60 , 6. ganz . p. 56 , 57 ▪ i arrian ▪ de exp . alex . ii . k ezek. 26. 2. 〈◊〉 . * jos . ant. xi . 6. * pl●t . in alex. * conv●● . chap. 30. p. 63. * conv●● . can . 30. p. 65. * chap ●● ▪ p. 64. * convo● . chap. 31. beginni●g . * ib. ch . 29. * can. 31. p. 67. * convo● . c. 31. p. 67. * can. 31. beginning . * mal. iv . 3. * 1 macc. ix . 27. * mal. iv . 3. * p. 11. * ganz . p. 58. * ganz . p. 66. * eccl. 50. * p. 19. 20 , 21. a conference between two protestants and a papist, occasion'd by the late seasonable discourse lloyd, william, 1627-1717. 1673 approx. 77 kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from 18 1-bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : 2004-05 (eebo-tcp phase 1). a48815 wing l2675 estc r23405 12762280 ocm 12762280 93523 this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons 0 1.0 universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase 1, no. a48815) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set 93523) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, 1641-1700 ; 987:18) a conference between two protestants and a papist, occasion'd by the late seasonable discourse lloyd, william, 1627-1717. [2], 33 p. s.n.], [london : 1673. reproduction of original in union theological seminary library, new york. attributed to william lloyd, bp. of worcester. cf. nuc pre-1956. created by converting tcp files to tei p5 using tcp2tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between 1473 and 1700 available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the 25,363 texts created during phase 1 of the project have been released into the public domain as of 1 january 2015. anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. 5% (or 5 pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of 100 instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level 4 of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p5, characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng catholic church -controversial literature. protestantism -early works to 1800. 2003-11 tcp assigned for keying and markup 2003-12 spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images 2004-03 amanda watson sampled and proofread 2004-03 amanda watson text and markup reviewed and edited 2004-04 pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a conference between two protestants and a papist ; occasion'd by the late seasonable discourse . anno dom. 1673. to the reader . as chance is sometimes more lucky than design , an unexpected re●contre has discovered more to me of the inside of papists , than i could ever learn by enquiry . i carried a friend o● mine to a coffee-house , with no farther thoughts , than to divert my self for half an hour , and oblige him by ●n entertainment of little expense . in a corner of ●he room i observ'd a papist , one whom i had long known , alone and pensive , entertaining himself with his thoughts and pipe , and little minding the rest of the company , which was all seated some distance from him . the convenience of the place invited us to sit down by him , and there happen'd a discourse betwixt us , which i here communicate to you , as near as i can in the 〈◊〉 words in which it past , at least i am confident not differing in substance : for as soon as we parted i went immediately home , and writ it down , and as my memory was then fresh , and my attention had been great , i believe i have omitted nothing which was material . to avoid repetitions i will put an f. for my friend , a p. for the papist , and for my self an n. after the usual passages of civility were ended , i began the discourse in this manner . a conference , &c. n. i am sorry to observe your pensiveness . will you permit me to guess at the cause , and tell you , i suspect the late seasonable discourse may have some share in it ? p. i was indeed thinking of that book . n. truly i cannot blame your trouble . that gentleman has treated you something severely ; and if a book which brings you so much shame , bring you some sorrow too , you may be pardoned . p. i must confess i was very sorry to see that book , though for other reasons , it may be , than those which you imagine . but why do you think it so shameful to us ? n. why , is it not a great shame to be such stiff enemies ●s you are to so glorious a church as the church of england ; and such stiff ma●ntainers of so stupid a religion as yours is ? p. for my religion , this is no place to give account of it . there are books enough which treat of that subject . only , since you are acquainted with me , i appeal to your self , whether you do in earnest believe me so stupid as to be given to idolatry , or supersti●ion , or the belief of stories as impossible as amadis de gaul or the knight of the sun , which that gentleman charges on us . n. i must declare i think better of you . but you cannot deny your e●●●●ty to the church of england . p. i am ●a● from being an enemie to it . f. by your favour , sir , your principles are so fitted to the greatness of your great spiritual monarch , that you cannot be friends to any church but ●is , no not ev●n of your own communion . for you hold that nothing , upon the matter , can be done in matters o● religion , but what is done at rome . a convocation not call'd by allowance from thence , is thought but a conventicle . a bishop cannot be made , a canonry , a rectory granted , no dispensation given , no ecclesiastical authority exerc●z'd , but the pope must be at one end . i say nothing of our controversial differences , because i perceive you are not willing to meddle with them . but 't is plain that while you hold thus , all but italians , and those of the popes territories too , must needs be back friends to the churches of their native countreys . nay , you are within a little of leaving no churches to which you might be kind . for what is a church without authority ? and if all authority be in the church of rome , she is the onely church , and all the rest but so many parishes of her large diocese , so much the worse to be govern'd , by how much they are farther distant from the onely true bishop : for the rest will have no more than the name . p. how little do you understand how the world goes ? 't is ●rue , there are of my religion who are possest with this fancy , that unless the bishop of rome intervene almost in every thing , nothing is well done . and this i believe happens in a great measure , from a p●ece of policie the greatest that ever has been practised in that court. at least i have been inform'd so by one who assured me he learn'd so much at rome it self , and that from a regular too . and that is , the exemptions which have been granted to most regulars , and many chapters , which have been exempted to a great degree from the jurisdiction of their respective bishops , and subjected immediately to the pope . these communities thus exempted , are obliged for their own interest , and to prese●ve the ●dvantages which they enjoy by exemption , to magnifie the power which exempted them . by which means , both they themselves are brought to depend on the pope alone , and bishops too , who , all dependance on them being thus taken away , are left weak and defenseless , and unable to maintain their due authority . i cannot tell whether the jealousies of princes , peradv●nture suspicious of too much authority in their subjects , have no● much contributed to this eff●ct . for i see that in some places they have made particular agreements with the pope , against the inclinations , and even remonstrances of their own people , according to which their bishops are forced to regulate themselves . however it be this paramount , omnipotent ( if i may so call it ) authority of the b●shop of rome has been cry'd up so much , and so long , and by so many , and those so much concern'd ( though thought disinteressed by the vulgar ) that it has now gain'd a great vogue , and passes among those who look not into things , for unq●estionable . and yet the vogue is much less now than heretofore , before our countreyman occam began to write in behalf of lewis of bavaria . notwithstanding still there are who think the cry greater than the wool , and even complain and wish for remedy . that author , and you after him look upon this as part of my religion , when alas ! how many are there of my religion who look upon it as a grievance ? they were of my religion who made the several s●atures of provisors and praemunire , which alone would serve for answer to a good par● of the book in question . however they declare there very plainly that the interposing of the court of rome , and this even in presentments to benefices or at least cogn●●●nce of the plea , translation of bishop● , &c. ( which be matters spiritual enough ) are clearly against the king● crown and his regality used and approved of the time of all his progenitors — that the crown of england hath been so free at all times , that it hath been in no earthly subjection , but immediately subject to god in all things , touching the regality of the same , and to none other — and god defend , say they , it should be submitted to the pope ( as by the interposing aforesaid they declare it would ) and the laws and statutes of the realm by him defeated and avoided at his will — besides , that they will stand with the king , his crown and regality in the cases aforesaid , and in all other cases attempted against him , his crown and regality in all points to live and die . i know not , but methinks 't is very strange that people should be suspected of disaffection to their national church , and this out of too much affection to the pope , who a low not the pope to meddle so much as with the most inconsiderable benefice of the nation . i conceive it is the right of every n●tional church to provide for the particular concerns of that nation , without any necessity of recourse to forreigners . sure i am that we who live now , are as true englishmen as our ancestors , and love forreigners no more , nor think our selves ty'd to more subjection to them . if the state would think fit to allow us englishmen , s●ch of who●e fidelity and aff●ction to their countrey they were well assured , to whom we might have recourse for our spirit●al concerns , we should quickly remove their jealousies that we are over much affected to strangers . f. if you be so little affected to strangers , why do you not enter into t●e communion of the church of england ? p. while our controversial differences remain undecided , if we come , we must come with bad consciences ▪ and i suppose the church of england would not admit of hypocrites . neither indeed is it for her safety to receive those who do not believe as she doe● . f. if we must not expect you till the differences of religion be determined , i expect you not till doomsday . people have writ and writ these hundred years , and the more they write , the further we are from agreeing . the end of controversie and the end of the world i believe will happen both in one day . p. with any other church of the reformation perhaps it might be as you say : but i do not think the controversies betwixt the church of england and us so irreconcileable as you imagine . and for this reason understanding catholicks are more affected to her than any church of the reformation . she began the separation in an orderly way , and free from those tumultuous violences which happened in other places . and as things carried by deliberation are always better done , than when they are hurried on by heady ra●●ness , though we think she has gone t●o far , yet i believe her moderation has preserved what may one day help much to closing the breach betwixt us , when gods providence shall employ men about it who truly d●sire it . f. pray what do you mean by this ? p. i mean more than i shall perhaps upon the sudden remember . you must be contented with what occurs . f●rst we o●●●●ve that she , and peradventure she alone , has pr●serv'd the face of a continued mission , and uninterrupted ord●nation . then i● doctrines her moderation is great ▪ she professing , not posi●ively to disbelieve , but onely not to believe most , i● not ●ll , points in di●ference betwixt us ; and in th●se of greatest concern has ex●r●st her self very warily and so that her words may be brought to ●uit with our belief ; unl●●● where to gratifie , i suppose other dissenters , some harsh expr●ssion has been inserted beyond the intention of the first compilers of her doctrines . in discipline she ●reserves the government by bishops , agreeing in that point , which is of great concern , so alone with the church of rome , th●t when the reformation met in the synod of dort , the engl●sh , i ●hi●k , were the onely bishops there . but above all we pr●ze in h●r the aversion she has from fan●t●cism , and that wild error of the private spirit with wh●ch 't is impossible to deal , since what they believe to day they may disbelieve tomorrow . from this absurdity the church of england desi●es to keep he● self free . she holds indeed that scripture is the rule of controversie ; but she hol●s withall , tha● it is not o● private interpretation . she is for vin●●ntius lyrine●sis , quod ab omnibus , quod semper quod ubique ; and we are for the same . our controver●ists ind●●d generally ●●y , that tradition is the rule , and when this comes to be scan'd i believe it will be found , the true difference is more in words than meaning ; at least it may soon and easi●y be seen which of the two sp●ak more properly . however while we both agree in that me●hod of vincentius , which is an open visible way , and has nothing of the p●ivate ●ancy , miscall'd the spirit , methinks ' twe●e no ●●ch impossible thing to take our controversies one by one and try them by that test. we shall not insist upon what is not vincenti●● p●o●● , and what is sh● professes to ●m●race as well as we . n. i m●st conf●ss i did not reflect on ●o much bef●●e . but meth●nks so many learned and good men ●aving spent their time in the study of these things , they must needs have thought of all which can be thought on . and since we see no effect of all their medi●ations , i cannot but think there must of necessity be more in the case , some impossibility or other which has scap'd your observation . otherwise why should the breach last so long , if it may so easily be closed up ? p. i am not so vain to imagin i see all that can be seen . i tell you w●at appears to me . it may be there may be something which appears not . but i wish it were put to tryal , and learned and unpassionate men employ'd to consider what might be done . men o● animosity and stiffness , do more harm with their bitterness , than the● can do good with their learning . but if people would once l●y aside their passions , and not look upon one another as enemies , they might peradventure quickly cease to be so . you must needs perceive that the weak and the fierce , are a great deal more numerous than the judicious and the calm . when any thing is said or written on either side , which by good handling might be improv'd to some degree of reconcilement , generally there steps in som or other of the former sort , ( as the more ignorant and passionate a man is ▪ the more rash and busie he is too ) and by his fiery zeal not onely choaks the seed of any good overture , but for the most part makes things worse than they were before . 't is possible there may be some who do not desire contentions should be ended ; whether it be from a perverseness of nature , or the consideration of some particular interest . but i see with grief that moderate counsels have been discountenanc'd on both sides . even this author himself has a fling at pacific writ●rs . f. and has he not reason , when those peaceful pretences are but baits to catch the unwary proselyte , who when he is once hung , there is no getting loose again , but concessions are retracted , the painted shews washt off ; and he has nothing left but a fruitless repentance . p. as if we had any prisons in which to keep men against their will , and every man were no● free to leave us when he pleases ; as i suppose few would stay who should find themselves so deluded . 't is likely you may know some ; pray enquire of them whether they have more obtruded on them after they came to us , than they were made acquainted with before . here is that authors affirmation , and my denyal ; believe neither of us , but satisfie your self , of those who can speak of their own knowledge . n. i am glad to perceive the breach is not altogether so wide as some imagine ; but yet there is one reason which makes me despair of any good . and that is because you are , and must be always enemies to the state. believe me our church will no more harbor traytors than hippocrites . p. enemies to the state , and traitors . god forbid . n. be not offended at the harshness of my language , which i use not for malice , but to speak properly , and call things by their own names . 't is not t●at i charge you with actual treason , but with doctrines which wi●l make you traytors when ever they be put in practise . and in my opinion there is not much difference betwixt an actual traytor , and one who is ready to be so , as soon as there is occasion . p. truely i think there is not . f. if you think so , i do not see how you can be excused , that power which the pope claims to depose kings , and d●●pose of kingdoms is so destructive to the safety of princes , and q●iet of kingdoms , that you must needs see you cannot be good subjects , while you believe it . neither can you be papists if you believe it not . the pope will no more endure you not to hold it , than states can be safe where you do . p. this is a topick which never fails when any one has a mind to declaim against papists . it has been often objecte● and as often answered . since you oblige me to speak of it , let me tell you , you are wonderfully out in your apprehension of things . if the pope should break w●th all , who believe no● that power in him , he would quickly have but a thin communion . i am yet to learn the na●e and situation of that coun●ry which belie●es it . f. how of that country ? as if it were not beleev'd in all countrys of your communion . and that we may not doubt of it , bellarmine ( against barclay ) produces writers of all countrys who maintain it , i think he musters them up to 72 ▪ but sure they are not like the disciples butonly in number . p. bellarmine had undertaken to maintain that position , and makes as good a shew as he can . from the beginning of the world , or rather from gregory 7th . who is his first man , he has found out the number you mention , and others cite twice as many ag●●nst ●i● , some the very same alledg●d by him . how pertin●ntly on either sid● we cannot now examine . but i never th●●●ht of denying , those doctrines may be found in books ; i deny there is any nation to be found which believe them . authors m●y ●●ite , and yet find few who give credit to what they say . if we would know what people believe , we must consider what they do , not what scholars write . for let them write upon what motives they will , people certainly act according as they are perswaded . now to come to particulars , there are few nations , where the neighbourhood gave opportunity , but have at some time or other been at open enmity with the pope . the spaniards , who are thought the most devoted to him , have taken h●m prisoner . the d●ke of atva himself commanded an army against him , and forc'd him to his terms of peace . the venetians , not to mention other breaches , were so resolute in their contest with paul 5th , that it came to an interdict : and they neither obeyed it , nor would be brought by any sollicitation of powerful mediators to accept of absolution . other princes of italy have been at wars with him , and that lately in the times of vrban the 8 h. and innocent the 10th . of the french we shall speak by and by ; but these have had as many and as great contrasts with him , as any other . which of all these princes has been deserted by his subjects , or found them less ready to stand by them against the pope , than against anoth●r man ? had they indeed believed aright in the pope , to dep●●e princes , and dispose of kingdoms , they must needs taken his part ; and left their own princes defenceless ▪ but you see no such thing has happened , and may therefore certainly conclude they believe no such power . the pretence of it may be sometimes used to colour an unjustifiable action , when people can get no better ; but i am confident there is no prince or people in the world , who truely believe it . f. truely , i know not what to say to you , what you alledge is manifest , and kno●n to the world ; though i did not refl●ct on it before . but how comes it that doctrines so little believ'd are so openly maintain'd , and so maintain'd , that they are alltogether in vogue , and the contrary hardly find maintainers . p. the contrary doctrine never wants maintainers , when there is occasion ; neither are they the less numerous , or the less considerable , for making the less noise : whereof the reason is the eagerness with which the pope espouses an opinion so favourable to him , which hinders us from being willing to do any thing which we think he would take ill . and so we let people talk as they please , till there be a necessity of declaring plainly what we think . and then it plainly appears that the sence of the world is very different from the thoughts of those writers how much soever they be cryed up . neither are the maintainers even among writers so few , as you imagine . i am sure in our nation there have been more catholick writers against it than for it . thirteen eminent men subscribed a loyal profession to queen elizabeth , even alter the bull of pius the 5th . came o●t : to whom ▪ sayes widdrington , thrice thirteen would willingly have been added , had they not been prevented by the sudden publication of that profession . and when campian , sherwin , and some others gave evasions instead of answers to the questions , about the power of the pope and queen , one iohn bishop , a man devoted to the see of rome , ( says mr. cambden ) wrote against them , and foundly proved that that constitution of the lateran council obtruded under that name , upon which the whole authority of absolving subjects from their allegiance , and deposing princes is founded , is no other , than a decree of pope innocent the 3d. and was never admitted in england . yea that the said council was no council at all , nor was any thing at all there decreed by the fathers . f. but why do princes permit the course of such doctrines , which cannot but be dangerous , if ever the people should come to be perswaded of them , as if they go on uncheckt , 't is like enough they one day will. p. as if i would give account of the couns●ls of princes , or should think it fit , though i could ▪ i suppose they find it for their interest ; according to which , wise princes take t●eir measures , and having many intrigues with the pope , judge it advantagious to please him with words , which they see have little credit with the wise . when there is any occasion of contest , they know well enough that the wise will sway the rest . it may be they have at some time or other , made use of that pretence themselves , or foresee some occasion wherein they may . but neither is it true , that those d●ctrines go curran● ev●ry where . 't is treason in france , to print , or disperse , or so m●●h ●s keep the books wh●ch have been condemn'd for main●●●ning 〈◊〉 . ●nd his very book of bellarmins , which you have 〈◊〉 j●st now , is one . besides all the●r univ●si●ies have solemnly and particularly co●demned them , as pernicious , and ●ere ●ab●● co●trary to the word of god , &c. the decrees bot● of parliament and universities have been so often publisht that you must needs have seen them . f. i must confess i have . p. why then you see tho●e doctr●nes are not maintained every where , nor any condition of catholick communion any where . the pope communicates freely with the french for all this , and so does the rest of the world . which perhaps may be one reason why th●y are the less forward to condemn them in other places . for they see , ●hey can never pa●s for catholick , so much as in the opinion of the people , while so considerable a part of the church so openly disavows them . wherefore , reserving to themselves the liberty to do as they see fit upon occasion , t●ey are willing to gratify the pope in the mean time , and let scholars talk as they please , f. but pray what do you think of those doctrines your s●l● ? p. what should i think , but that they are false and naught ? f. and why do you not then disclaim them ? p. you see i do . f. i mean publickly , p. because it is to no purpose , and i fear would look as odly as the request of the cutpurse , who went to the constable and and would needs be set in the p●l●ory by him ; where when the flock●ng multitude ●o●d gazing and laughing at the mans folly , his companions pic●t all their pockets . shall i deal plainly with you ! 't is you your s●●ves who are the cause that the●e doctrines are not renouncd ' , o● wh●ch you pretend such fear . f. we● who are perpetually pressing you to renounce them , and there●o●e deal the more unkindly with you , because , ●i●l you do it we cannot think you honest men . p. and when we have given you satisfaction , pray what more kindness would you , or can you by law shew us ? the law makes no difference betwix● a papist who renounces , and a papist who holds those doctrines ; neither is there any penalty from which that renunciation would exempt him . on o●r side you know as well as we , there are some who have more k●ndness for them then fitting . it cannot otherwi●e be , but these men will look very untowardly on any who by such a publick renunciation shall condemn their perswasions , especially if he be neither obliged , nor so much as invited to do it . some of them have been passionate and rash , and will be apt to revenge themselves , by clamors and harsh censures , and peradventure cause intelligence to be given even at rome , where as they are very tender in this point , and very impatient of anything which they conceive shocks their authority , you may be sure they will do all that comes in their way to discountenance such a man , and work his discredit , and it may be discomfort . on the other side , you take no care to give him any manner of protection , or so much as countenance ; but leave him to shift as well as he can for himself , without any ease from the burthen to which he is otherwise subject . as your heats a● present , and often , are very great against us , none knowes but he may at last be turn'd a begging , and be forc'd to seek relief in forreign countrys , whe●e charity is like to be very cold to him , against whom the pope is incenst . what ever people think in their hearts , ) they will shew but little countenance to him against whom the pope declares himself . who would gratify you upon these terms , when a man is sure to live uncomfortably with those of his own communion , and receive no relief from you , forwhose sake he runs into that inco●venience ? a● you carry matters , 't is hard to be imagined otherwise , but ●hat whatever you say , you are in truth unwilling those doctrines should be renounc'd , perhaps least you lose something to say a●ainst us . do bu● provide that he who satisfies you in this particular , and r●nounce● those doctrines as fully as you can desire , be cherisht with some moderation , and taken into the protection of the laws , and then be angry freely with those that refuse to do it . m●ke them treason , if you will , h●re , as they are in france , fo● any concern i have in them . n. m● thinks you do your self much wrong , to keep these things conceal'd if every body knew as much as you have told us , perhaps the heats of which you complain might cool , and people be less incenst against you . p. i tell you no secrets . these things have been publish'd over and over and over again , but no not●ce is taken of them . this author objects these doctrines as freely , as if nothing had ever been said to the● . and yet considering how well he is acq●ainted with all sorts of books , sure he must needs know we areas ready to renounce them , as he is● forward to object them . f. i must confess you speak like an honest man ; but yet you answer for no more then your self . you may be , and i believe are innocent ; but you cannot deny there are among you men of other principles . and ●t would not be safe , for the sake of a few good , to cherish perhaps a great many bad n. nay sir , i cannot agree with you there . if you think it not safe , to protect the bad in respect of the good , i am sure it is not just to punish the good , for the faults of the bad. we bl●me them for holding these doctrines : what can we have more more of them , than to renounce them ? those who do this no●estly and fairly , without tricks or starting holes , what have we to say against them ? god forbid we should imitate the unreasonable severity of those nations , which when one man commits a fault , punish ●oth him , and all his relations , though never so innocent . 't is no such hard mat●er to discern which are fit for mercy , and which not ; and i wish others may think so too , and hope they will. but though i am in this particular , as i hope i always shall be , a freind to truth , i must needs declare to you i am no freind to popery . when i consider the many inconveniences which the seasonable discourse has well observed , i believe we cannot be too follicitous to keep it out . pray what think you ? p. i think 't is strange you should be so little acquainted with men , who live amongst you , and with whom you converse every day . the understanding part of those whom you call papists , have peradventure as little inclination to popery as your selves , and would joyn heartily with you , if there were occasion , to keep it out : especially if they were indulged such a proportion of mercy as might make them live with comfort . for while men live uneasily , i cannot say but they may have some inclinations to be at ease . f. how ! papists keep out popery ! you may as soon persuade me , that fire will keep out heat . p. i know not what credit i have to persuade you , but i tell you nothing but what i certainly know . pray cast your eye a while on our neighbors the hollanders , no fools in matters of government . they make a shift to allarm us with fears of popery , which being an odious thing , they think proper to cause jealousie among us , and serve their ends ; but their actions manifest that they believe nothing less . they have a greater number of papists than we have . they are a considerable part of their countrey , equal if not superior to any one party . whatever the hollanders say to amuze us , they are so far from being disquieted with fears of popery themselves , that they take the very priests into the protection of the magistrate , and give the rest a comfortable indulgence : not out of carelessness , but because they are secure . for while the papists have no pinching dissatisfactions to make them wish to change , they see well enough that they will not think of embroiling things , and upon uncertain hopes of a condition which cannot be much happier than the present , hazard to make themselves very unhappy by losing the present . so that till the papists can convert the whole nation one by one , the states see their religion will never be in other terms than it is , and that is so unlikely , that she never has the least suspicion of it . for this desire to make proselytes , which is common to all as well ●s papists , gains and loses particulars , but advances little in the general . experience shews the progres of either side is inconsiderable , and the benefit to the state very much . the papists upon many occasions having been found as faithful to the state , as any of their fellow subjects . even at this time , while they have war with a powerful enemy of that religion , and who has lodg'd a powerful army in the bowels of their countrey , they find the papists as fast to the interest of the state , as the best , and as earnest opposers of a forreign power , though likely to introduce their religion , if it should prevail . f. i am apt to believe that ease might hinder you from desiring change ; for men therefore change because they are uneasie . but 't is still incredible to me that you should in earnest ever resist popery . 't is a forregn enemy , not popery , which the holland papists oppose . p. but that forreign enemy , if he were suffered to come in , wou●d bring popery along with him . but let us unde●stand one another . i conceive you mean by popery what the word sign●fi●s , a blind addiction to the pope , and what this discourser meant , viz. something which is attended with those inconveniences he mentions . and i can assure you those among us that understand things , and know how to distinguish religion from abuse ( i will not undertake for every extravagant zealot ) would be as u●willing to admit them as your selves . do you think us so sensele●s as to be willing to forfeit our birth rights ? to be deprived of the b●nefit of our native laws ? to submit to the jurisdiction of forreign courts , and at the summons of every crafty wrangler to run a thousand miles a pettifogging ? do you think those among us who are possest of abby-lands , ( whereof many are still in the hands of p●pists , and make if not all , yet many times a great part of their estate ) would easily resign them , and beggar themselves and posterity ? do you think us unconcern'd in the wealth of the nation , or forward with an indian simplicity to barter gold for trifles ? f. but how could you help it ? p. help what ? we are troubled with no such grievances , nor ever mean to be . f. god-a-mercie reformation , which has remov'd those burthens . p. the statutes before mentioned eased as in part ; and hen. the 8. no great friend to the ●eformation , did the rest , and more perhaps , than were it to do again , your selves would do . but whatever was the cause , whether reformation , or any thing else , we are not subject unto those inconveniences now , and i believe shall never subject our selves to them by our good wills . f. your doctrines would subject you to them in spite of your teeth ; while you believe of the pope as you do , there is no remedy but you must let him act as he does . while you acknowledg him head of the uuniversal church , you must grant him power to make laws for the universal church , and when he makes them , you must obey them . therefore he may cross and weaken the laws of any particular nation , and remove proceedings to his own court as he pleaseth . you must either absolutly renounce him , or enslave your country : for this unavoidably follows from what you believe . p. i thought i had believed my share of the pope ; but i am sure i believe no such matter ; and ●m sure my catholick ancestors believed as little as 〈◊〉 . no remedy say you ? does the statute of praemunire be●ore mentioned , si●●●fie nothing ? no● the severe penalties elswhere enacted against all of what condition soever which shall draw any out any out of the realm , in plea whereof the cogniz●nce belongeth to the kings court , or whereof judgments be given in the kings court , or which do sue in any other court to defeat or impeach the judgment given in the kings court ? behold how much we think our selves obliged to forreign jurisdiction , and how forward we are to enslave our country . this is no place to dispute the popes authority . controversie does as ill in a coffe h●use as pollicy . but it seems n● hard matter to distinguish primacy from omnipotency , and t is easie to see he may be head , and yet cannot force laws on particular places without their consent . hen. 8th was by statute declared head of the church of england . that ti●le hath been since ch●nged into supream governour , which in my opinion , amounts to the same . however , neither the one nor the other enables our ●●●ngs to make laws without the consent of their subjects if you look into countrys of the popes communion , i do not believe that you will find any one , where they think themselves obliged by any law made at rome , purely by virtue of that authority . they allways examine it themselves , and if they think it convenient , they receive it , and that reception makes it binding ; otherwise , no man regards it , or thinks himself obliged by it , and perhaps would be punished if he should . the discourser mentions the canon law , which here we our selves do not wholly reject ; and when we do , must undo doctors-commons . now i understand not that the cannon law is obliging farther than it is received , or that any country is obliged to receive it , farther then as they find it for their convenience . every nation is at liberty to do what appears best for themselves and therefore we see what is binding in one place , signifies nothing in another . and since england is now free from the cannon law , more than she finds for her benefit , assure your selves papists would be as unwilling to part with that freedom as protestants . we love not to thrust our necks into yokes more than other people . i think indeed , if any decrees for the advantage of our country were sent from rome , we should not refuse a benefit , meerly because it came from thence . but we do not believe that what comes from thence , is obliging purely because it comes from thence ; but only , when after due examination , by due authority at home , it is by that authority made obliging . and this holds , not only in decrees of popes , but of councels too , though never so general . nations admit them as they like them , and so either receive all , or part , or none . every body knows that no inducements have yet been able to prevail with the french to receive such canons of the council of trent as concern manners . for which reason no man there is obliged to these decrees or any such , but where they will oblige themselves . f. what you say is really considerable . but i fear it does not quite do the business . there is a great difference betwixt laymen , and clergimen . the layety may be well enough affected to the peace of their country , to which they give their wifes and children for pledges ; but the clergy have no such hostages to give , and besides are so tyed by education , and , if they aim at any preferment that is considerable , by oath to the bishop of rome that we cannever be secure of them . shall i deal freely with you , and tell you an unwelcome truth ? 't is for the clergies sake , that we are the more jealous of you all . we could believe the laiety honest enough . but considering the influence the clergy has over them both by the respect which you bear them , and by the ty of confession , by which they are enabled to do even what they please , we can never be secure of one , unless we were secure of both . now for your regular clergy , your self acknowledges the immediate dependance they have on the pope by means of their exemptions . but we know besides , that all particulars vow obedience to their superiors ; which obedience passes for the greater vertue and more sublime perfection by how much the more blind it is . these superiors are subject to one another , till all comes at last to the general , to whom the whole order is absolutely subject . this general both lives at rome , and is many ways sure enough to the pope . so that if any one of the whole order displease him , the general presently takes his part , and enforces the obedience vow'd to himself , to whatever the pope desires . and as we see in reason this must needs happen , so we find by experience that it does ; as in the case of walsh , withrington , and others . your secular clergy , as you call them , indeed have not the same dependance , and were they left to their native liberty might do well enough . but the pope has found out an expedient to bring them to his bow , and requires such an oath both from bishops and other dignitaries , that those who take it must needs be more his subjects than their own princes . wherefore pray consider whether we can in any reason have a confidence in men who , though they be well disposed themselves , are governed by such as we know are tyed to the popes interest . p. the more i should think it is for your interest to allow us such as are of good principles , and of whose fidelity and affection to the interest of their country you might be assured . you know as well as we that , we cannot be without priests , and that whatever hazard we undergo , whether of estate or life , we must have some . so that unless you banish or hang us all up without more ado , while there is a papist in england , there will be a priest. now while you hinder us from having men brought up in such principles as might be free from jealousie , 't is not possible for us to do otherwise than we do : for we are forc'd to take such as we can get ; and if they prove otherwise principl'd than you would have them , the fault is none of ours . as for the objections , that vow of obedience which religious take , reaches no farther then to the better performance of the duties of that kind of life which they have chosen , and is so understood , and not otherwise , by those among them who are understanding . and if you apprehend any danger in it 't is very easie to make provision against it . but for the oath , which you mention , i must needs profess my ignorance ▪ i have never so●n ● nor heard of it , and therefore know not what to say to it . but i know in general that no subject can take any oath prejudicial to the safety or service of his native prince , and if he do is obliged not to keep it . neither do i think an oath can be imposed upon the subjects of any prince without his consent , or at least against his con●●●● . f. i easily believe you have not seen it , and that few of your layty are acquainted with such things . but , sir , we are better verst in your matters than you imagin . i think i have a copy of i● rendered into english at this time about me . yes , here it is . pray read it , and see if we have not reason to be jealous . and if you doubt of the translation , do you compare it with original latine , as 〈◊〉 is in the pontificale romanum ( of clement the 8 ) pro universo orbe christiano , printed at antwerp 1617. p. in. elect to the church of n from this day forward will be faithful to b. peter the apostle and the h. rom. church , and our lord n. pope n. and his successors canonically entring . i will not concur by counsel , consent or deed that they lose life or member or be unjustly taken , [ mala captione ] or violent hands in any manner laid upon them , or any injury done them under whatsoever pretext . i will not knowingly discover to any one to their prejudice any counsel with which they shall intrust me , either by themselves , by their messengers or letters . i will help them saving my order , against all men , to keep and defend the rom. papacy and regalities of s. peter . i will treat with honour , and in his necessities help a legat of the apostolic see both going and coming . i will endeavour to preserve , defend , increase and promote the rights , honours , privileges , and authority of the h. rom. church , our lord the pope , and his aforesaid successors . i will not communicate in counsel , deed , or treaty in which any thing sinister and prejudicial to their person , right , honour , state and power shall be design'd against our said lord , by the rom. church . and if i shall know any such thing to be treated , or endeavoured , i will hinder it to my power , and , as soon as ever i can , will acquaint our said 〈◊〉 therewith , or some body else by whom it may come to his knowledge . i will 〈◊〉 self observe , and cause to be observ'd by others , the rules of the h. fathers , the decrees , ordinances or dispositions , reservations , provisions , and apostolical commands . i will to my power prosecute and impugn hereticks , schismaticks , and rebels to our said lord and his said successors . if i be call'd to a synod , i will come , unless i be hindred by a canonical impediment . every three years i will personally visit the shrines of the apostles , and render account to our lord and his successors aforesaid of my whole pastoral office , and of all things any way belonging to the state of my church , the discipline of the clergy and people , and the health of souls entrusted to my charge , and on the other side will humbly receive and most diligently perform the apostolical commands . if i be detained by a lawful impediment , i will fulfill all aforesaid by a special messenger having a special mandate to that purpose , chosen from the bosom of my chapter , or some other ecclesiastical dignitary , or otherwise having some ecclesiastical personage ; or in default of such , by some priest of my diocess ; and if there be none of my clergy , by some other priest secular or regular , of approved virtue & religion fully instructed in all matters aforesaid . and of such impediment i will make lawfull proof to be sent by my said messenger to the cardinal presiding [ proponert●m ] in the congregation of the sacred council . i will not sell , nor give nor pawn , nor mortgage anew , [ infeudabo ] nor alienate in any manner the possessions belonging to my table even with the consent of the chapter of my church , without consulting the bishop of rome . and if i do proceed to any alienation , i consent ●o ipso to incur the penalties contain'd in a certain constitution set forth of this matter : so help me god and these h. ghospels of god. f. well , sir , what say you to it ? p. i say i would not take it for the best bishoprick in christendom . as far as i can judg it is direct prae●●nire , and perhaps worse . but pray , sir , where did you find it ? those princes who are of the popes communion are careful enough of their authority . it seems impossible they should be ignorant of it , and incredible they shou'd permit their subjects to take it . i cannot believe it is in use , wherever you found it . f. i have never been present at the consecration of any of your bishops , to say of my own knowledg that it is taken : but i know it is prescribed in your pontifical to be taken ; and i suppose your bishops are consecrated according to the prescriptions of your pontifical . p. really , sir , you tell me news , and such as i dare answer there is not on one ( at least lay ▪ ) catholick in ten thousand that ever heard of it . i will not question the truth of what you ●ay , because i do not mistrust you ; and besides 't is an easie matter when i can meet with a pontifical to see what is there . but i must still remain of my former opinion , that 't is not generally in use , though perhaps it may be in the popes own territories . the authority of the pontifical is no proof as to that point . for other countreys have their pontificals and liturgies of their own framing , and that may be in the roman pontifical which perhaps is no where else . that 't is of no ancient standing , is clear by the oath it self , which mentions the congregation of the sacred council , and every body knows that that congregation was erected since the council of trent ; and every body knows too tha● since that time popes have not had that credit in the world that they could impose oaths upon the subjects of other princes without the consent of those princes . for england in particular , besides the statutes beforementioned , which in my opinion quash it sufficiently , there is mention in sir ed cook in his 3 book of institutes tit . praemuni●e , of a renunciation used even from the times of ed. 1. and ed. 2 in these words : i renounce all the words comprised in the popes bull to me made of the bishoprick of a which ●e contrary or prejudicial to the king our soveraign lord and to his crown , and of that i put my self humbly in his grace , praying to have restitution of the temporalities of my church . this renunciation must needs be a great deal more ancient than this oath ; and since our catholick ancestors thought fit to renounce all words inserted in bulls prejudicial , though to a less degree , than this oath . however it be 't is a clear case that being made by the pope none can be more obliged to take it , than to receive his other decrees , which as we have discourst already , no nation is oblig'd to do , but by free consent , as far as they find them beneficial to themselves . wherefore as i said before , allow us ecclesiastical ministers , of whose fidelity you may be assured , and we will be careful enough , you may be sure not to run rashly and ca●slesly into praemunires ; or if we do , the pope himself cannot blame you if you severely execute those laws which have been made even by catholicks . but if you force us to take them upon such terms as we can get them , we are blameless if things happen which we cannot avoid . f. why but you cannot avoid this . for let us allow you what liberty we will , the pope never make you bishops on other terms ; and you believe bishops cannot be made but by him , or authority derived from him . p. i have already told you i do not believe bishops are made any where upon those terms , except perhaps in his own territories ; but i am very certain , they need not be any where ; and am farther very certain that in england they should not be , if you would allow us the liberty of acting in the concerns of religion openly , and without such fear of the laws that many times we do we know not what our selves . believe me the pope is too wise to give occasion to examin whether b●shops may not be made without his intervening . for 't is well known that bishops were made , and governed the church a long time , and he never medled in the business . and at this day there are who will by no means use the ordinary stile , dei & aposholica sedis gratia , but leave apostolica sedis quite out . the recourse , which is now had to him , i believe was occasioned by the frequent abuses which happened in promotions , and which is thought so far from necessary even now , that , if i mistake not , the canons are still in force , which order that unless he provide for a vacant sea , within a time limited , and that no long one , the three next bishops shall make one without more ado . however this collation of bishopricks by the pope , is plainly by canon law , and subject to the contingencies and nature of other canons . ● . to let pass at present , what you answer only , and me● thinks unsatisfactorily as before , of your remaining ●il● of your former opinion , so here again of your not believing that bishops are made any where upon those terms , except perhaps in the popes own territories : and not to press you further home on this po●nt . first , by telling you , not with any perhaps , or peradventure , but most certainly , that all bishops either named , created , confirmed , or consecrated by virtue of the popes bulls , not only for his own temporal territories , but for any where else throughout the world , are made upon those termes ; and that no less certainly , that very pontificale romanam which prescribes the aforesaid oath to be taken by all arch bishops , and all bishops , and all abbots too , at their consecration , nay and to be taken twice by every arch bishop , videlicet . first , at his consecration , and the second time at his receiving the pallium ) is no less the pontifical now in use throughout all churches acknowledging the popes supremacy , than the roman breviary , and the roman missal are are the only breviary and missal now in publick use in the same churches as it is known they are . secondly , by assuring you also , there are even at this present , within his majesties dominions , nay in one of them , i. e. ireland , residing now publickly enough , at home in their diocesses , at least nine ticular new bishops , and ●ower also new arch-bishops , in all thirteen ( besides two more alive still of the old nuncio bishops ) and every one of them created by the pope , within these four la●st years since 1669 , consecrated according to the prescription of that roman pontifical only , and swor● the popes devoted bondslaves for ever , by that very oath ; that oath , which you please to call it , either of strictest ( however sacrilegious ) fidelity to the pope , or of most per●idious treachery against the king and kingdom ; for it is both ; and you your self will easily believe they do & will hold to it , being they are so far from thinking not only not to renounce all ( nay nor any of ) the words comprised in the popes respective bulls , to them made of their several bishopricks , which be contrary or prejudicial to the king our sovereign lord and to his crown , nor only not so much as to renounce any part of those even most notoriously traiterous promises of the aforesaid oath , not even so much as virtually , or indirectly , or even implicitely to renounce any part of them by taking either the usual oaths of supremacy or allegiance , or even any other kind of oath of fidelity to the king , that on the contrary it is manifestly known they have all of them ever since their consecration , made it their work , not only to suppres● utterly that now so lamed irish remonstrance ( or profession of fidelity to the king in all temporal affairs according to the laws of the land ) presented to , and accepted by his majesty in the year 1661 , but also to prosecute with incredible malice for so many years all those other irish ecclesiasticks of their church , who in the said year or any time since had signed ( as only for having signed ) that formulory , until at last by such wicked ways they have forced most , of these forlorn subjects ( forlorn i call them , because of one side persecuted by the pope , and of the other not protected by our laws ) to retract their subscription , and consequently and even under their own hands to renounce utterly their allegiance to the king ; nay even also ( and which must be consequential to disclaim their acknowledgment of his being their king at all in any matter or cause whatsoever , being he cannot be acknowledged king at all , if he be not acknowledged king at least in all civil and temporal affairs according to the laws of the land , or in indispensable obedience and faith be not acknowledged to be due to him in such matters , from all his subjects . thirdly , by desiring you to consider , that of all the roman catholicks , by all right and laws , subject to the king , the great and considerable body indeed , is only the irish nation , instructed now and wholy ( as to point of conscience ) governed by those very bishops and arch-bishops , how apt , as those instructors , so the instructed irish generally taken , are in the present conjuncture for any kind of bad impressions , from abroad , and consequen●ly for another , fatal revolution at home and what other probable design , then that of preparing them for a new rebellion in due time or fit opportunity at home , cou●d ther● be in those eager persecutions continued so inexorably , scandalously , and incessantly these eleven years past , both by the court of rome abroad , and by all its emissaries at home , although more violently and confidently these four last years by the foresaid new bishops and arch-bishops , and all their underlings and other adherents against so innocent a profession of allegiance or promise of obedience in temporal things on●y to the king ? nay what other probable design could there be ( but that ) of creating in , and commanding home too , and crouding in that kingdom so many titular bishops and arch-bishops ( besides vicars apostolick with episcopal jurisdiction in so many other of the vacant sees , and besides too so many nunciotist provincials of regular orders , and abbots also ) and that immediately upon the duke of ormonds removal from that government in the year 1669 ? bishops and arch-bishops without benefice , without revenue , without patrimony , or other means to maintain them , but what they get neither by preaching nor praying , but by poling and pilling and fleecing and flaying the poor both priests and people under their pretended jurisdiction ; though withal , i must confess , devou●ing even already in hopes , those indeed considerable temporalties which the protestant bishops enjoy at present according to law ; pluncket of ardmagh 5000 l. a year old revenue , lawfully as yet possessed by margetson of the same see ; talbot of dublin thetwo or 3000 l. of that see also , which boyl or michael dubliniensis hath now in legal possession : and so for the rest all over ireland respectively . which revenues , as they were one of the chief causes of the last rebellion ; think you they may not in all likelyhood be of another yet in our days ? being those papal bishops hold these royal prelates to be meer usurpers even of those very temporal revenues , and know themselves are entituled by the popes bulls not only to the spiritual jurisciction but unto all kind of temporals belonging to their respective sees , and were both created and commanded home to ireland ( as others , their predecessors had been in so great number immediately before the last rebellion in 1641 ) of purpose to try their fortune , or what they might do for playing the old game over again . and in the fourth place , by entreating you moreover to reflect on all the particulars of the foresaid oath , in which particulars those papal bishops bind themselves with so much solemnity and sacriledg to be traitors , certainly at least to a protestant king , and kingdome ; unless peradventure you think that neither that neither the popes canon law , nor council of trent , nor bulla coenae , nor court of rome it self . nor these bishops themselves , hold protestants to be either hereticks or schismaticks : or that you see not how these bishops bind themselves even to persecute to their power all hereticks & schismaticks whatsoever . and how , if they will not be and continue traitors to the king , they must be at rome esteemed even perjured villains , and rebels too against the pope , whom they do ( as they are indeed by the tenor of the said oath obliged to ) maintain to be doubtless the only supream lord of ireland ( yea england , &c ) both in temporals and spirituals . now what confidence th●nk you can be , by a protest n king or people reposed in such men ( even what ever they may chance say , or swear hereafter ) who of their own free accord , nay desire , ambition , and migh●y solicitation , that i may say no more , put an absolute necessity on themselves even at their holy consecration , either to be traitors perpetually to the king , or continually perjured to the pope ? though otherwise , i must confess , they are by the eternal law of god and man , and reason also , bound to be so perjured . i say , that to let pass at present all these considerations , and many more too , which no less materially than occasionally might be returned to your answer , videlicet , either that of your remaining still of your former opinion , or that which in effect is the same ) of you not believing that bishops are made any where upon those terms except perhaps in the popes own territories : nor to press you at all with those insoluble arguments , being you not only seem to be an absolute stranger to all affairs in the kingdom of ireland , wherein i cannot be so , as having a good part of my estate lying there upon the account of an old adventurer by the act of decimo septimo caroli primi but you also , and indeed no less plainly then honestly condemn that wicked , traiterous nay cruel too and barbarous oath , ( albeit indeed the chief support , nay together with the profession of faith , and other oath also ther● in contained , ordered by pius the 4th . to be ma●e and sworn both by all whatsoever bishops , and by all dignitaries too , yea all canons , parsons , curats , all beneficed clerkwh●tsoever that have the care of souls , yea also by all superiors of monasteries , convents , houses , places of regular orders , ( understand orders not mendicant ) even those also of millitary orders ) the only support of the otherwise tottering papacy : i say therefore that not to give you any more trouble at present , with those or any other such , however material replies , nor expecting any r●joynder from you to them , what i am to tell you now , is first , my own ingenuous acknowledgment ; that if but even all the rest you say be true , your religion as it is , does not make you all stupid . and that for ought i perceive there be honest and sensible men among you . the next is , that notwithstanding all your seeming candor , i cannot thorowly believe you , while you hold the faith is not to be kept with hereticks . for , if indeed you hold this tenent , who can be perswaded , there is any trust so much as to your solemn promises , much less private protestations . p. shall i give you a short answer ? being you acquit me at present of all the rest . whoever holds so , hang him up in gods name ; for no honest man will think him worthy to live . many of you deal with us both at home and abroad ; i hope you find us deal as fairly as o●her men . not but that you may have met with knaves : for there are knaves and honest men of all professions . but he that cheats one of another religion , would not spare one of his own i warrant him . as for the truth of wha● i say , ' t●s easie to try . cherish with some comfortable moderation , and take into the protection of the law , such as shall secure you in the man●er you shall think fit , that they truly are so perswaded as i have informed you , ( for i have already to●d you , that every body will be shy to offend the pop● and not be secure so much as of protection ) but shew indulgence to those who shall renounce the power which you except against , to depose kings and dispose of kingdoms , and if the statutes of praemunire and the rest , be not enough , find out what more punishment you please , for those who shall receive and obey decrees sent from rome , without allowance of the state : and for those who refuse to give you such security , treat them w●●● 〈◊〉 severity you please . n. what think you friend ? to my apprehension this seems but fair . for methinks 't is a preposterous cross piece of wisdom , to be perpetual , y disquieting our selves with fears . of papists and not admit them to secure us against those fears . as if we were afraid not to be afraid of them : or as if it were for our t● est to keep up our jealousies , and not suffer them by any means to be taken away . f. i am of the mind ; but yet while people remember queen marys days , the powder treason , the massacres in france and ireland , and inquisition every where ; things as manifest as horrid , i doubt they will always be afraid ; though i see withall it is somthing hard to make those who live now bear the blame both of past generations , and other nations . p. you would think it yet harder , if you knew how truly we abhor such things , and how little share religion had in them . it was the influence , which the severe humour had of king philip had upon the counsels of england , which brought that blemish upon queen marys days . he was one who thought violent remedies the best , insom●●h that he spared not the ashes of a man in whose arms his own father had yielded up his breath . by his inflexible fi●ure upon such courses he lost the low countrys , and is become an example to the world , how little severity is proper in matters of religion . for had the cruelty of those days been effectualy to the ends , for which it was used , you had not been now to upbraid us with it . religion was not the cause of the massacres you mention ; but fear of a powerful faction in france ; and hate of a forreign and commanding nation in ireland . in both cases it happened indeed by chance , that there was difference of r●l●gion , but had they been all of the same religion , the barbarous violence would not have been less cruel . massacres have been in other p●aces , even in england , and where hate , or revenge , or any other violent passion hurries men to them , they spare their own religion no more than another ▪ cruelty shows so ugly , that 't is no wonder if those , who are guilty of it , desire to hide it under some handsomer vizard : and religion being the most specious of all other , if every body take it up that can , and desire to pass rather for zealous than barbarous : and ●so poor religion must be abused to disguise the fear of france , and hate of ireland , and rebellion of england , ( ●or here t was pretended too , as t will be in all places ) and all this while is a meer pretence , and least of all aim'd at by those who cry loudest out upon it . by the way , if i may speak of ireland in particular , without the imputation of approving what past there , for in truth i abhor those passages too much to go about so much as to excuse them , i could wish that the author who mentions the lord orrery would h●ve taken some notice too of what is answered by p. w your author mentions two hundred thousand throats cut : p. w. affi●ms that my lord himself bates half the number , and yet confidently avows , and that to the duke of ormond who should know , that even that number is exorbitantly vast . and i am sure i have heard from those who are well acquainted with particulars ● and ●●fficient haters of those cruelties , that they defyed all the world to make good the murder of half one hundred thousand , or so much as twenty thousand , or even one thousand slain otherwise than in the wars ; and where things are so bad of themselves methinks there is no need to make them worse than they are . the powder traytors were papists , 't is true ; and 't is true likewise th●t that there are and allways will be wicked men of all religions . had papists been their judges they would have scap'd no better than they did . i think there is no more to be said of them , but this , in which i am sure all honest men agree , that the justice of that law which past upon them , had more of mercy than they deserv'd . for the in quisition take my word papists like it no more then you . but you are much out when you think 't is every where . the pope with all his credit cannot settle it any where but in italy and spain , and that with cautions enow too , except just in his own territories , where he may order things as he pleases . those princes who receiveit , conceave it is for their interest , and 't is by their authority introduc'd among their subjects , whereof i believe there are many ill satisfyed with it . for us who are englishmen , i dare answer there is not one who would not oppose it with all his power . f. there is but one thing more which i shall propose to you , and that i decare is more for the satisfaction of my curiosity , then that i believe any great matter in it . but yet why do you not take the discoursers counsel in one thing , and clear your selves from the imputation of sacred bloud charg'd home upon you by the answerer of philanax anglicus . p. it is an imputation so wild and manifestly groundless , that i do not think any understanding m●n , though never so great an enemy to papists , gives any credit to it . does not all the world which side the papists took ? inquiry has been made for the guilt of that sacred bloud , and all england knows they were not papists who were found guilty . if they had , i wonder who would protect popish traytors . if the rebellion , as that author would pe●swade us , was rais'd and fomented by the arts of th● court of rome , it is as plain case that the court of rome had very little influence upon the papists here● , who acted quite contrary to their designs . it is undenyable that to design the kings ruin , and at the same time to fight to preserve him from ruin , are inconsistent and impossible thin●s . to go about seriously to answer such extravagant fancies , is to give them a credit which they otherwise have not , nor can have with any man of judgment . f. for all that he tells very shrewd stories , and such as he undertakes to make good . p. if he can make good his understanding , i think he is no friend to his country to let traytors lye conceal'd in it , whom he can discover . wherefore in behalf of justice , and reverence to that sacred person a loyalty to his sacred success●r , i summon him to make good what he says he can , and require at his hands that he spare none , whoever they be , but expose them all to deserved punishment . and i am confident i shall be disavow'd by none of my religion , if in this particular i disclaim all benefit of the of the act of oblivion for any of us . for his stories by your favour they are far from shrewd , he talks of a priest and confessor who flourisht his sword at the kings death . this story if i we●l remember , i have seen in one of mr. prinn's books , and he ●athers it upon a dead man , who is sure enough will not rise again to disprove him . but as luck is , he says ' ●was the queens confessor and 't is sufficiently known that the queens confessor do's not use to leave the person of the queen , and 't is more than sufficiently known that the queen at that time was not in england . and were it to purpose , i believe there are yet living those , who can testifie on their knowledge where the queens confessor then was . so that 't was something shrewdly done of the answerer , to leave out that particular , who this confessor was , by which the forgery of the story may be detected , and involve the matter in a general charge , which none knows how to answer ; otherwise he has said nothing but what every body could see throu●h that read it in mr. prinn . ag●●n he tells of 30. jesuits betwixt roan and diepe , who discovered strange designs to one whom they took to be of their party . and if he or any man ever saw 30 jesuits upon a r●ad together , or if he did can fancy them to simple , as to discover their designs to men they know not , i am content he believes ev'en what he pleases . then he talk of the f●yar ●s that dunkirk , whom he makes to vy with the jesuits , for the glory of that inhuman action ; and this before an understa●ding gentl●man . but certain 't was no great sign of understanding ; to broach such a story , when all the world knows there n●ither are , nor ever were any f●ya●s at dunki●k , english i mean , for str●nge●s , i suppose he will not make so concern'd in the affai●s of our country . he talks too of our transformations ●nto indepe●dents to make england depend on the pope , and fift monarchyst's to ruine the english monarchy , and agitator , and i know not what , i suppose to shew he can quibble ; otherwise every body le●s if we could so easily , and undiscoverably disguise our selves , we were mad if we took not all the shape of protestants , and so avoided the danger of the law without more ado . for who should find us out if we could make all the wo●ld believe we were protestants ? alas ● you know , and we know too we●l , that a papist cannot long conceal his religion . if these be your shrewd stories , your hate to us will let any thing p●ss ; i have not seen any thing that pretends to serious , less significant , and a body would have thought a church-man should better know what belong to defaming our neigebour , tha● to expose the credit of a great many innocent men to scandal upon such no-grounds as he mentions . f nay sir , i declared before , it was only out of curiosity i spoke of this matter , for i ever thought it very od , you should be lookt upon as friends to the king during all the times of confusion , and for that reason be out of favour with all the several changes of government , and of a sudden be charged with annuity to the king when he came in . but i thank you for the information you have given us , and avow fr●ely to you , i shall carry away apprehensions of you very different from what i brought in . for indeed i thought the blind implicite obedience had involv'd you all into stupid and unsufferable errors , and rendred you unfit , not only for protection , but even harbor amongst honest men : but i perceive 't is with you , as with the rest of the world , where there are good and bad of all sorts , and though i have no kindness for your religion yet i will confess i begin to wish as well as you , that the book which has occasioned all our discourse had not been written ; for methinks 't is hard to charge the follies of some , without distinction upon a●● . p. i cannot tell what the design of the author was . 't is in the number of unknowable secrets , and we ought still to judge favourably of things we know not . but his book seems apt to stir animosities , which if he judge seasonable , i should think not so charitable . neither can i understand why the moderate share we had in the late indulgence , should occasion so much zeal against us , and none against others who were more largly indulged , and are otherwise much and many ways more considerable : especially , when i consider the topies he uses , your religion , says he , is an excellent religion , and ours full of stupidity : be it so ; may we not therefore be permitted to say our prayers in private ? which is all the indulgence allow'd us . sure t is no part of the goodness of your church to hinder others from being as good as they can ; and the worse our religion is , the more need we have of praying to make us better . again let the pope claim what power he pleases , and that power be as inconvenient as that gentleman pleases ; private prayer will not therefore be inconvenient , or you receive any harm from what passes in private . against seditious doctrines , such as those are declared by catholicks to be , i hope the laws takes order , and they are excepthd by the very declaration . 't is the name of abby lands and vbby-lubbers ▪ and the rest of the inconveniences he mentions ; private prayer certainly will never pray them in , and were there any danger of them , we should help you to our powers to keep them out . his topic of auricular confession , in my opinion might have been spared in respect to the church of england , which is far from disaproving such confession . and however every body must needs see that there are nations , who use it , as careful of the honours , of their families every jot as the english , and something more jealous . an abuse may sometimes happen , from which there is nothing so sacred that can always be free but good things are not to be taken away because t is possible they may be abused . at worst i do not see that you are concern'd . if we have a mind to prostitute our wives and daughters , how are youth● less safe , or which way endanger'd if we be all wh●res and cuckolds . we fell a laughing at that expression , and that laughter broke of our discourse , and soon after our company . i parted as soon as i had payd our coffee , and i wish you may think your few pence as well bestow d on the relation as i did mine to hear it . finis . the difference between the church and court of rome, considered in some reflections on a dialogue entituled, a conference between two protestants and a papist / by the author of the late seasonable discourse. lloyd, william, 1627-1717. 1674 approx. 89 kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from 21 1-bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : 2004-05 (eebo-tcp phase 1). a48817 wing l2677 estc r18276 11871418 ocm 11871418 50135 this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons 0 1.0 universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase 1, no. a48817) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set 50135) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, 1641-1700 ; 501:10) the difference between the church and court of rome, considered in some reflections on a dialogue entituled, a conference between two protestants and a papist / by the author of the late seasonable discourse. lloyd, william, 1627-1717. [3], 38 p. printed by andrew clark for henry brome ..., london : 1674. attributed by wing to william lloyd. reproduction of original in huntington library. created by converting tcp files to tei p5 using tcp2tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between 1473 and 1700 available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the 25,363 texts created during phase 1 of the project have been released into the public domain as of 1 january 2015. anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. 5% (or 5 pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of 100 instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level 4 of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p5, characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng catholic church -controversial literature. conference between two protestants and a papist. 2003-11 tcp assigned for keying and markup 2004-01 apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images 2004-02 olivia bottum sampled and proofread 2004-02 olivia bottum text and markup reviewed and edited 2004-04 pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion the difference between the church and court of rome , considered : in some reflections on a dialogue entituled , a conference between two protestants and a papist . by the author of the late seasonable discourse . london : printed by andrew clark for henry brome , at the gun in st. paul's church-yard , at the west-end , 1674. the difference between the church and court of rome , considered . having fouud my self concern'd to vindicate the seasonable discourse , ( which shew'd the necessity of maintaining the establish'd religion in opposition to popery ) from the passionate cavils of the full answerer : i think it necessary further to advert to what is offered by a more temperate and knowing writer , in bar to my assertions , whether in direct contradiction to them , or incidentally in order to the framing an apology for those moderate men of the roman communion , who disown the exorbitances of the pope , though they remain addicted to that church . writers of this kind , who not onely joyn with , but seemingly out-go us , in a just abhorrence of some of the odious parts of popery , thereby gain an advantage to recommend both themselves and the other less scandalous , though equally pernicious , doctrines of the roman church ; and also to bring in that whole religion at the postern-door , which would never be admitted at the gate . and if this be the natural effect of the pretences made to moderation , however specious they appear , i presume 't will be esteem'd by sober men no ill office to detect the fraud and danger of them , and demonstrate the unpracticableness and utter impossibility of that dream of reconcilement with those our adversaries ; who cannot dismiss an errour , but they must part with infallibility to boot ; nor incline to the demands of truth or charity , without the forfeiture of interest and reputation : in a word , cannot acquit themselves of treason , without renouncing an article of their faith. now our author having thought fit to propose what he had to say in this affair , in the form of a dialogue , which though in it self a popular and perswasive method , is yet by reason of its frequent transitions and ornamental appendages , not very very proper for the carrying on an argumentative debate : i shall therefore consider the heads of discourse which i find insisted on by him ▪ those i mean which seem material , distinctly and apart , and fairly give my thoughts upon them . where my first enquiry shall be , i. whether peaceful pretences are baits to catch the unwary proselyte , who when he is once hung , there is no getting loose again ; but concessions are retracted , the painted shews washed off , and he has nothing left but a fruitless repentance ▪ all which the author peremptorily denies , pag. 8. ii. whether if the state would think fit to allow the english papists , such , of whose fidelity and affection to their country the governours were well assured , to whom those papists might have recourse for their spiritual concerns , they would remove our jealousies of their being over-much affected to strangers , &c. which is asserted , pag. 6. iii. whether the popes power in deposing kings be a doctrine of the roman church ? which is denied , p. 9 , 10 , 11 , 12. iv. whether princes of the roman communion have sufficient powers to defend themselves from the tyrannies and encroachments of the pope . which is said , p. 16 , 17 , 18. v. whether religion were the cause of the massacres in france and ireland ? which is denied , pag. 29. these severals being honestly discust , will i presume go very far toward the undeceiving of all those , who without the mixture of prepossession and interest , which no evidence can convince , are led aside by fair appearances ; and are so credulous to think every thing possible , which some bold undertaker has the confidence to say is easie ; and every thing practicable which someman of speculation demonstrates to be possible . enquiry i. whether peaceful pretences are baits to catch the unwary proselyte , who when he is once hung , there is no getting loose again , but concessions are retracted , the painted shews wash'd off , and he has nothing left but a fruitless repentance . in which enquiry concerning the insidious practising of the romanists to draw men into popery , it will be reasonable to observe the method used in this affair : where i might very justly insist upon the down-right cheats , juglings , and impostures practised by the factors for popery , notoriously evidenced not onely by creditable testimony and flagrant fact ; but also by publick acts of court , and judicial records : of which the reader may have large accounts from archbishop * hars net , mr. gee , mr. baddiley , pots , and others . to which might be added the impudent defences of pious frauds , directing of intention , and apologies for that artificial way of lying called equivocation ; as also the fallacies and empty paralogisms constantly used and solemnly recommended in the affair of gaining proselytes to the roman church . as a specimen whereof , to avoid trouble to the read●● 〈◊〉 my self , i will mention those which are proposed by thomas à iesu , in his large work concerning the conversion of all nations , borrowed as he tells us from coster , possevine , and other eminent writers in that cause . where a he advises not to dispute with hereticks , but rather express an intimate kindness for their souls ; and first demand of them , what they think of all their ancestors ? whether they imagine they were damn'd for being papists ? an argument , which , had it any force , must perswade jews , mahumetans , and heathens , never to be christians , and as it happens here in england , must oblige us never to be papists , lest we should condemn our fathers , grandfathers , and great grandfathers , all those ancestors for whom we have the most sensible concern , who all were protestants . the next direction is , to ask the dissenter from the church of rome , why he is of this sect rather than that , why a lutheran rather than a calvinist , &c. and if he says , because he sees more reason to be of this sect than of another , to conclude he is a heretick , because he chuses one religion before another . one would wonder that they who are perswading men to prefer popery before protestantism , should at the same instant declare it a mark of heresie to chuse a profession in religion : that they should pretend to give reasons why men should be papists , and yet hold it a pernicious thing to be of that religion which they have reason to be of . the third demand is as convincing as the former , to ask the protestant where his church was before luther ? as if religion were therefore new , because freed from innovations : not to question the age of the popes universal monarchy , transubstantiation , image-worship , the sacriledge of taking the cup from the laity , and one commandment from the decalogue ; encroachments which we all know when they came into the church : 't will be more than enough to ask where was the roman new creed , before the council of trent ; which was invented many a fair year after that very reformation which is accus'd of novelty . these are the goodly machines which are recommended to batter down the protestant cause , and which we see every day propos'd with such confidence as if they had really some force or value in them ; and where these stratagems succeed , lest the fraud and folly of them should be detected , great pains is taken to perswade the unhappy proselyte immediately to discard all heretical books , especially the bible ; and the conversation of hereticks , especially divines . but because in this noon-day light of christian knowledge , the generality of protestants ▪ is not apt to be perswaded to quit their faith on these slight terms , the next dexterity will be ( which is the head we are now immediately concern'd in ) to make them believe that they are much mistaken if they measure popery from prejudice and common fame , or the expressions of the school-men , or peevish writers of controversie : the church speaks in the canons of her councils ; and if they be soberly considered , 't will appear there is not so vast a distance between both parties , as is vulgarly imagin'd : this is at large inculcated , as by our country-men , sancta clara , hugh cressy , tilden , and others ; so with great vouge and ostentation by the bishop of condom , in his celebrated exposition of the doctrine of the catholick church concerning matters in controversie ; which he has transformed and molded to render it more soft and plausible several times b over : so that we are so far from learning of him the doctrine of his church , that we cannot discern what is his own ; every edition altering the scheme and way of proposal . i may not omit to add upon this head the mention of my author , who spends whole pages of his little dialogue in shewing the d moderation of the church of england in difference to other reformations ; and the easiness by good handling to procure a reconcilement . but all these pacifick men are so artificial as to conceal what ill treatment the authors of such discourses have ever had , where they were in earnest , and there was no collusion in the case : for instance , erasmus ▪ cassander , modrevius , the interimists , f. barnes , &c. and what is more material , the bull of pius the iv. who made the trent creed , and confirm'd the dictates of that assembly which forbids that any person of whatsoever order or dignity in the church , his holiness onely excepted , do explicate the decrees of the council in any manner , or upon any pretence ; withal he nulls and makes ▪ void all such explications . so that be we protestants never so much disposed to a composure , there is no concession to be look'd for on the papists part , who are not only accountable for the heterodoxy of their interpretations , but for the very offer at interpreting . and therefore however the heretick may be born in hand before his reconcilement to the church of rome , of great indulgence to dissenters in speculative points : so soon as he is made a proselyte , the case is alter'd ; and he must believe as the church believes , or 't were as good to believe nothing at all . i had thought here to have instanc'd in mr. hugh cressy's improvements in the catholick faith after his first conversion ; whereby all his kind remembrances of the church of england , and offer of giving security to the state , mentioned in the first edition of his exomologesis , are forgotten in the second , with several other remarkable varieties , and additional periods and sections in the place of those that were expung'd ; with which , when the aforesaid mr. cressy was charged , as gross and scandalous falsifications , he had no better excuse to make , than by protesting solemnly , f that he knew nothing of the alterations , they being put in by his superiours , to whose diseretions he had entirely left his book , and it seems his own honesty and honour . but i find my self prevented in this particular by the late honourable animadverter on that inconstant man ; and therefore unto him i remit the reader . george cassander , who labour'd in the affair of reconcilement as much , and understood it as well as any man , lays it down as a fundamental maxime , that the g church can never have the desired peace , unless they lead the way to it , who have given the cause to the distraction : that is , unless those who are in place of ecclesiastical government , will remit of their immoderate rigour , and yield somewhat to the peace of the church , and hearkening to the admonitions of pious men , will set themselves to correct manifest abuses according to the rule of divine scripture , and of the primitive church from which they have swerved . now can any one be so fond to think that his holiness will tamely strip himself of the regalia petri , and be reduced to the neighbour-like terms of the old regulae patrum ? will he part with his universal monarchy , and be satisfied with a primacy of order , his suburbicarian region , and a little diocess in a part of italy ? will he leave off to have his feet upon the necks of kings , and his hands in theirs and their subjects pockets , and be in earnest servus servorum ? i need not ask whether the cardinals will come off from their pontifical sloth and luxury , and quitting their pensions and commendams ; remember they were poor parish priests and deacons ? but will the meanest father or curé perswade himself to disown his power of making god , and disposing of him at his pleasure in the language of pere cotton , loose the omnipotence of having his god in his hand , and prince at his feet ▪ and in pure self-denial quit the power of the keyes in the grinful pretences of being able by the vertue of the sacrament of penance , and some grains of attrition added to it , to remit all sins how horrid soever ; and sneak into a ministerial stewardship of a clave non errante . or farther , shall the bartering for masses , whose whole merit is said to be applied by the intention of the priests , and the lay-mans payment for them ; though neither understand a word of the whole office , and the later do not so much as hear it read , and can have no concern therein , unless perchance his share in the idolatrous worship of the elevated wafer : upon which work alone so many thousand lazy friers are constantly maintained , be laid aside for the reasonable service instituted by our saviour , and the entire perception of the holy eucharist , according to that his institution of it . i know men are apt to believe that which they vehemently wish , and very wise and sober men were induced to think heretofore a closure with the church of rome no impossible matter ; but the case is quite altered since the time of the council of trent , which has establisht every thing that ought to be remov'd ; and shew'd the world how vain their hopes were from synods , and universal councils ; how formidable the very approaches to reformation were to those fathers abundantly appears from that history of padre paolo ; and this is acknowledged abundantly by my h author . and now let us suppose an easie-going , good-natur'd man , by very fair words or perchance visions or exorcisms chous'd of his religion : and at last awakened from the pleasant dream of being in the bosom of the roman church ; discovering the guilt and folly of his vile apostacy from that holy mother , in whose faith he was baptized ; and also the fraud of those that had seduced him from her . shall he start back and render himself abhorred unto that party to which he was so lately reconciled ; and suffer the reproaches of the other he so unworthily deserted ? will it not be easier for him to sit down with the contempt of levity in one instance , than to repeat the shameful act ; desert what he had chose , and chuse again what he deserted ? since he must be contemned and hated , will it not seem better to have some to own him , than none at all ? what effect a perverse bashfulness has in other cases , we all know ▪ it being proverbial , that 't is a greater shame to bring home the bridle than steal the horse : and the renegado turke we find by common experience is so far from resuming the profession of christianity , that he is sure to be its mortal and inveterate enemy : so that there needs little more security of having one continue in the profession of popery , than by any means to beguile him to admit it ; a second revolt being abundantly precluded by the first . but let us go on forward and examine , how honestly we are treated when we are made believe that there is a fair retreat afforded , for that the i papists have no prisons in which to keep men against their wills , as our author tells us . 't is very well they have no lollards tower in england , but we cannot but remember what has been heretofore . i am sure in those countreys where the inquisition is on foot , men may easily get into a goal , upon the least surmise of an intention to quit the roman-catholick religion . nay , where that tyranny takes no place , 't is plain enough that votaries are not at large to go when , or whither they have a phansie . what think we of the monasteries and nunneries in popish countries , whither young children are spirited away from their friends , or barbarously exposed by them . were the doors of those houses left open , would it not soon appear by their providing for their liberty on such an opportunity , that there was something of restraint that held them in ? but by our authors leave , is there nothing can confine a man besides a prison ? he that being taken by the enemy in war , goes at large on his parole to get himself exchanged ; is , i humbly conceive , no less a prisoner , than when under guard , and in the marshals custody . and if the word of a souldier , the bare engagement upon honour have this force , what shall we say to a solemn oath , backed with direful execrations in case of failance ? now that proselytes to popery are in this strict manner tyed not to desert it , i demonstrate from the roman pontifical , and the order of reconciling a heretick to the church ; the words are these , i. n. being convinc'd of the snare of division wherein i was held ; after long deliberation , with ready and unconstrained will , the divine grace being my guide , am returned to the unity of the apostolick see. but lest i may be thought not to have returned with a pure mind , or with dissimulation : i engage under the penalty of falling from my estate , and the obligation of an anathema ; and promise to you n. bishop , and by you to st. peter prince of the apostles , and our most holy father in christ and lord , our lord n. the pope and his successors ; that i by no perswasions of any persons , or by any other means will return to the schism , from which i am freed by the grace of our redeemer : but will alwayes remain in the unity of the catholick church , and the communion of the pope of rome . wherefore i swear by the omnipotent god , and the holy gospels , that i will stedfastly continue in the unity and communion aforesaid . and if ( which god forbid ) i should divide my self from this unity upon any occasion or argument , incurring the guilt of perjury , let me appear bound over to eternal punishment , and have my portion in the world to come with the author of schism . so help me god , &c. what effect such imprecations naturally have , 't is obvious to apprehend . i my self know several persons , that having been perverted to popery , were afterwards convinced of the errors of it , and returned into the bosom of the church of england : but then being hazen'd with the remembrance of those curses they had laid on their heads , if at any time they should leave the roman communion , went , after some years continuance in our church , back again to that of rome . which i the rather mention , because our author is so very peremptory , that no such thing is done , and wages his reputation in the case . enquiry ii. whether if the state would think fit to allow the english papists , such , of whose fidelity and affection to their country the governours were well assured , to whom those papists might have recourse for their spiritual concerns , they would remove our jealousies of their being over-much affected to strangers , &c. it may here in the first place be well worth the enquiry , whether it be possible for papists to give the state where they live such an assurance as is talkt of ? for beside that , their clergy , and all those in religious orders , have separate interests from the state , and by their caelibate have given no pledges to it : certainly all they whose faith it is that princes may be excommunicated , and then deprived of their dominions by the pope , can by no imaginable way give security to the state for their obedience to their prince , and fidelity to his government : and it is not only altogether undeniable , that this is the faith of most romish confessors , and priests , and orders ; but also that it is the faith of the church of rome it self , i shall sufficiently prove in the following section . but secondly , they who hold that no faith is to be kept with hereticks , who teach equivocation , as laudible and innocent , who believe they can be dispenced with for any outward compliance with dissenters in religion by the pope , do evidently by such doctrines set themselves without the terms of humane society , and are not to be trusted upon those obligations , which other men of narrower principles are bound by . how probable the former doctrines are esteemed in the church of rome , we may learn from their celebrated writers . as to the later , i mean his holiness giving commission to his factors to dissemble their profession , i have shewed at large in the seasonable discourse , and justified my allegation against the exceptions of the full answerer in my reply to him . though indeed the compliance of , in a manner , all the papists of england , and coming to our church-service for the first 11 years of q. elizabeth , would to true english-men , be a competent account of this matter , especially since 't is notoriously known ▪ that not long after in scotland there were intercepted the very dispensations from rome , whereby generally the roman-catholicks were permitted to promise , swear , subscribe , and do what else should be required of them , so as in mind they continued firm , and did use their diligence to advance in secret the roman faith. which being shewed to the king , were the cause of some severities , as the judicious spotswood observes , which were then in that kingdom used against the papists . i might add to this the oath of subjection and obedience to the pope , to keep and defend his regalities , and not discover his secrets , which every popish bishop takes at his consecration , set down at large by my author himself , and which he pretends he would not take for the best bishopwrick in christendom . now this oath being part of the office for a bishops consecration in the roman pontifical , must be presumed ( however my author would dissemble it ) to be taken by every prelate of that church : and if so , i demand what security one so obliged can give to any state ? if he bind himself by an oath of allegiance , that will come too late , and the former engagement must take place against the latter . besides , he who shall be so profligate to take a second oath contrary to a first , gives no security thereby , it justly having no more esteem with other men , than it had with the unhappy swearer himself . as also , i demand whether any person so obliged can reasonably be thought in the examination previous to the conferring of orders , to have passed over this fundamental point on which the roman hierarchy depends , or to be willing to confer orders on those who are heteredox therein ? withal , whether the bull of pius iv. subscribed , and the oath of canonical obedience taken perpetually by every priest of the roman church , do not involve them in the strict obligations before recited , and the consequences appendant to them ? 't is true , our author talks very freely of the disorders of the papacy , and pretends that those of his way are excommunicate . for all this , it may not be safe to trust them without better assurance . we remember from sad experience , that no persons did so boldly rail at the tyrant cromwel , as those that were his pensioners , who merited by saying those very things which others were to lose their lives or their estates barely for hearing . nay , we have not forgot , that some of these perfidious wretches lay under the common calamity of honest men , sequestrings , restraints , and decimations , that they might continue unsuspected villains . and we are not sure but his holiness may be as dextrous in his managery as that tyrant was ; making a shew of great displeasure against those agents of his which are hired to pretend a disagreement with the court of rome , and sufferings by it , thereby to gain securely proselytes to the church , and a reward unto themselves . nor will this be esteem'd an uncharitable surmise , when we consider what usually is done by this sort of men , upon like pretensions . i shall , to avoid giving trouble to the reader , bring but one single instance , yet it shall be so close and commensurate a parallel in all respects , as not to admit of any colourable exception to it . 't is that of f. watson the secular priest , who having wrote at large in the defence of soveraign princes , against the dictates of the jesuites , wherein he openly confesses , that all the sufferings brought upon the papists here in england , was the due reward of their own demerit : and withal detected the frauds and villanies of the jesuites , not onely in reference to the state , but their cheats of private persons by means of auricular confession , and other gainful methods of hypocrisie , setting down the names of the persons wrought upon , and theirs who practised upon their easiness , with the particular sums thus gained , the place , and time , and manner of the action ; proofs one would think of the greatest sincerity imaginable ; especially since he for this was with all possible violence pursued and railed at by his adversaries in the church of rome , and seemingly persecuted by his holiness , and arch-priests commissioned by him : yet after all , we find this man at last was discovered to be engag'd in treason against his soveraign , and plotting all those villanies he had before so solemnly declaimed and wrote against : the account whereof we have in all our histories . hitherto we have seen how the overture of admitting and tolerating such priests as will profess the plausible opinion of the power of princes above the popes , is unreasonable ▪ upon the general head of security to be given by them . let us now consider how far it is practicable under a protestant prince , who cannot make popish bishops nor priests ; and such as are already made by the pope or his authority , if they profess these tenets , ( if we could be sure they did hold them ) will , as is confess'd , not only be disabled to officiate , but also be sent for away , and others of another sort sent in their place ; and i believe they think they are oblig'd to so much obedience to the pope , as to remove upon his call , at least while they have no churches proper to them . the truth is , all correspondence between the crown and the papists is matter of so much jealousie , that i cannot see any possible advantage that can recompence it . the little intercourse which was in king iames his time , ( notwithstanding his writings * against the pope and his usurpations , his frequent speeches in parliament , and that strange solemnity of attestation , the apprecating destruction to those of his family in succeeding generations , who should attempt a departure to popery , and dereliction of the religion profest in the church of england : which remarkable passage is recorded by judge crook in his ‖ reports : i say notwithstanding all this done here in england to assure his subjects , besides all that had past in scotland ; ) the umbrage then given by the relaxations afforded at that treaty with the spaniard , was never recover'd in the minds of the people , but those jealousies continued had the greatest share in those dismal effects we have seen in our days ; and i heartily wish we never see more ; it is matter of my fear , as well as of my hopes and wishes . this one consideration is enough to me to overthrow all those plausible projects which some have had of dividing the papists , &c. we shall reap much prejudice , but never advantage by these attempts . under shelter so obtain'd , converts will be made , who must afterward believe as the church believes , which the shifting of a confessor turns quite about , and there will always be ▪ found difference enough in opinion amongst their doctors , to make rebellion a probable opinion , and massacres too , when the season is fit for it . great ostentation is made of the loyalty of romanists , from the frequent repetition of the statutes against provisors in the time of our ancestors , and applied as a competent security against those usurpations of the pope , which were said by the seasonable discourse to tend so much to the impoverishing of this nation . but in the mean time the author doth not consider that the frequency of those statutes sheweth as much their insufficiency , as the making them argues the good will of the legislators : nor is it probable that any remedy can be sufficient , when the supremacy of the pope is acknowledged , and where the whole belief of the professors is concluded in that one rule of believing as the church believes . for the pope being supposed to be the head of the church , what interpreters of the churches faith can they meet with equal to the head of it ? not to speak of those who believe in the infallibility lodged in the pope ; general councils are not every day assembled , nor is it probable the pope will permit them , if likely to contradict or lessen his authority . in their absence , what is there which can be put in ballance with the reverence given to st. peters chair , amongst the professors of that religion ? shall the opinion of one or two priests stand in competition with the pope ? can any man believe this plausible doctrine of the power of kings , and contempt of the pope's in comparison of theirs , can have any other aim or effect than to procure a connivance or admittance of that religion , which ( whatever the opinion of some few professors may be , and what their sincerity is , may be another question ) when it recovers its strength , must turn like the countrey-man's snake , to sting those who with so much charity and kindness shall cherish and favour it . to make this whole matter obvious to a common understanding ; let us suppose some loyal person stumbling at the irregular claims of the pope , and confusion and miseries brought into the world by that exorbitance ; and upon the conviction of that one point , which for its plainness he best understands , and for its influence and effect upon his secular interests , he most studiously minds , holding fast the loyal principles of the church of england , since no other batteries can shake him , comes father n. and tells him he is in a great mistake to think that the great exaltation of the pope's authority is so necessary a doctrine , that for his own part he doth not believe it : well , that stumbling-block being removed , there is a convert made to the romish church , perhaps eminent enough to lead many others by his example ; at least it is highly probable he wants not influence upon his wife and children , if not others of his relations and acquaintance , to pervert them also , probably without conditioning so severely for their loyalty . but what will become even of that capitulation , when after ( perhaps some years of confirmation in all the romish opinions , and particularly that of submission to the churches authority ) death or the censure of the pope may have removed , or a preferment have converted f. n. or such loyal casuist : for why may he not change his opinion as father cressy did his in that very particular , who in the first edition of his exomologesis made a protestation of his duty and obedience , which is corrected in the second ? and in any of these cases our proselyte shall find himself entangled with the new doctrines of his confessor , who in a season when factions of state or other circumstances prepare men for such dangerous doctrines ( as they are too subtle to avow them , or at least press them unseasonably ) shall urge the submission to the churches opinion ; and then the quotations of so many doctors ( which are now by our author rejected and sleighted in comparison of one or two plausible opinions ) shall sound loud in concurrance with the head of the church , who besides the credit of his own determination , has the prescription of so many ages , the actual deposition of princes in all parts of europe from time to time , and the decrees of universal councils , to justifie his claim . in vain shall the penitent alledge to his confessor , that father n. was of that opinion : the reply will be easie , that father n. was a good , yea and a learned man in things where he agrees with the church , but still he was a man , and subject to error , and therefore not to be credited when he disagreed with the church , of which the pope , colledge of cardinals , general councils , and so many doctors who have wrote before and after father n. are better and more credible expositors than he . it will be hard for any body to disentangle himself from this argument , if he have once surrendered his faith implicitely to that of the roman church , or as we have shewed , under the usual obligations been engaged in its communion . and if a person of so remarkable loyalty , as we in this instance suppose our proselyte to be , cannot be able to withstand and secure himself , what shall we suppose of those his relations and acquaintance , whom his authority and example turned to the church of rome , perhaps with less circumspection . i have many reasons to believe f. n. to be a very honest man ; as i know him to be ingenuous and learned : and therefore stand amaz'd to see him offer to the world a proposal so unreasonable as this is . if he be in earnest as i must suppose him to be , his address to one of our church , whom he would bring over to his part , will run in this or such like form. those only belong to the fold of christ , who are under the conduct of the universal pastor , his holiness the pope , and they alone are sound in the faith , and consequently capable of salvation , who believe the doctrine received by the catholick that is , the roman church ; it is therefore necessary for you , as you tender the eternal welfare of your soul , religiously to obey this pastor , and believe all the proposals of this church . but notwithstanding , though this pastor and ( as i shall presently demonstrate ) this church have solemnly declared that princes may be excommunicated , and then deprived of their dominions by his holiness , you must by no means believe that damnable doctrine ; and though you are sure to be excommunicated for your stubbornness therein ( as f. n. at this day is for this only crime ) you must endure it , rather than comply with those false and rebellious tenets , that subvert the laws , destroy the peace , and endanger the sacred persons of soveraign princes . in short , upon pain of damnation you must be in communion with the roman church , and yet under the same penalty you must be content to be excommunicated , you must believe as the church believes , and yet you must not believe so . before i leave this point , i must beg leave to add one observation , which may be useful to the determining , how far it will consist with prudence to hearken to the proposition made for the encouraging , by the relaxation of penalties those who are in the communion of the roman church : it is plainly this , they are a sort of men who are alwayes the worse for favour and indulgence . i mentioned but now the case of f. watson , who after his many publick declarations of himself against the traiterous jesuits , confuted all his writings by his actions . but the particular which i now refer to , is the time of this his enterprize , which was the entrance of k. iames into this kingdom , when all the severities of the laws against the romanists were laid asleep , and they received not only to a peaceful enjoyment of their consciences and estates , but were admitted to the court , to trust ▪ to honours and preferments ; nor was this treachery and falseness his singular demerit : at the same time , and under the same circumstances was the agency of the romish factors with the king of spain , for the procuring a second invasion of their native country , which might expiate that of 88. as also that hollish machination of the gun-powder-treason . these , though so barbarous in the intendment as to be capable of no aggravation ; had , besides the forementioned ingratitude , of being attempted in a season of indulgence ; this particular brand upon them , that they were designed by those very men who had been guilty of treasons in the time of q. elizabeth , and had been graciously forgiven by k. iames , and personally had sued out their pardons from him under seal . so that we may conclude it as reasonable an attempt to still a tempest by whispering gently to it , put out a fire by pouring oyl upon it , or reclaim a viper by receiving him into the bosom , as to hope by any acts of kindness and indulgence to assure the duty of a roman votary , of whatever principle or subdivision he pretend to be . enquiry iii. whether the popes power in deposing kings be a doctrine of the roman church ? having debated this point already in the seasonable discourse , and defended what i there asserted in my reply to the full answerer , there is really no need i should trouble my self or reader in the proof of a thing perfectly evident . but since the gentleman with whom i had first to do , and our present author after him , think they have abundantly cleared themselves , by quoting a few romanists who have denied the exorbitant tyrannies of the pope , and separating the interests of the court and church of rome , with this difference , that whereas the full answerer quite slips over the mention of councils , this my author after a short reflection lightly passes the allegations which i made from the canons of the said councils , which i pretend to have been receiv'd as universal , not onely by the high-flown papalins , but these moderate pretenders ; ( and consequently what is by those councils decreed , must beyond all subterfuge be concluded to be the doctrine of the church . ) and whereas the said author onely addes some few colourable pretences to elude the arguments drawn from the aforesaid councils , i shall ( which i take to be the alone remaining possible way of inforcement ) set down the express words of those councils in plain english ; and then i hope there will need no infallible interpreter to inform us of the meaning and importance of them . and having done this , i shall reply to those thin sophisms which are brought to elude my argument . in the seasonable discourse i first cited the 27 canon of the third lateran council , cap. sicut ait : where the fathers having condemned the cathari , &c. and subjected the fautors of them to the same punishment with them , 't is added , they shall forfeit all the fealty , homage , and obedience which was due to them . now we know who they are to whom fealty and homage , in its remarkable and most proper importance , is due . but to avoid all cavil , this is determined to extend to soveraign princes by the express words of the council of constance , as we shall see anon . and therefore in the next place i proceed to the fourth , and as it is stiled by the romanists , the most general council of lateran : where the fathers having condemned all hereticks that exalt themselves against the catholick faith by them explained ; an article whereof is , that in the sacrament of the altar the body and blood of christ are really contained , the bread being transubstantiated into the body of christ , and the wine into his blood ; that is , to wave all the monstrous absurdities of transubstantiation , that they who receive onely the bread , receive onely the body ; and they who receive the cup , onely receive the blood of our saviour , ( for concomitancy cannot suit with things entirely separate . ) and having required the aid of the secular powers against the said hereticks , the council proceeds in this form : if the temporal lord , requir'd or admonish'd by the church , shall neglect to purge his territory from heretical pravity , let him be excommunicated by the metropolitan and his suffragans , and if he persist in neglecting to give satisfaction for the space of a year , let him be signified to the pope , that he from thenceforth may pronounce his subjects discharg'd from their obedience , and expose his territory to be seiz'd by catholicks , who having exterminated the hereticks , without contradiction shall possess it and preserve it in the purity of faith : so as no injury be done to the right of the superiour lord , where there is such ; provided he do not any way oppose himself : and the same law is to take place on them who have no superiour lord. where we may observe how pitiful the excuse is , which is commonly brought , that soveraign princes are not here meant , but onely feudatary ; when , as if it were on purpose to exclude this plea , those who are most absolute and supreme , are particularly level'd with the other . in the mean time , we of this nation may take notice , that besides our own runagates , whom i cited in the seasonable discourse , who make our kingdom to be held in fee from the pope , in a manner all foreign writers go away with it as a thing confest and evident , and bring , as the common instance of the popes power to depose kings , that his holiness may dispose of the crown of england , even where they exempt the king of france from such subjection . but this upon the by . the same council goes on , and says , that the excommunicate fautors of heresies shall have no votes in councils or elections , shall not be allowed to make a will , to give testimony , or bear any office , or inherit an estate . if any happen to be a iudge , his sentence shall be null and void : if an advocate , he shall not be admitted to plead ; if a clark or notary , the instruments drawn by him shall be of no moment : and so in all other like cases . whence we may gather what assurance we are likely to have of the possession of our estates , if popery prevail : all acts of law , all bequests of wills , and judiciary proceedings since the reformation , ( and i suppose most english men hold under some of them ) are absolutely void and null by the decree of this council , and we must come to new purchases to be secur'd in the possession of whatsoever we possess , or challenge for our own . and how fair chapmen we shall meet with in that case , it will not be difficult to determine . my next allegation is of the council of lyons , where the pope after mature deliberation had with his cardinals and the council , having depos'd and deprived the emperour , and absolv'd all those from their oaths of allegiance , who had sworn it to him , and commanded that no person should own him from thenceforth as emperour , or any way obey or intend to obey him , and excommunicated all such as should give him counsel , or any way favour him ; and ordered that the electors should proceed to a new choice , the aforesaid particulars being read in the council , the pope and prelates sitting in council , with candles burning in their hands , thundred out their excommunication against the deposed emperour frederick , &c. the words of the council are plain enough , but when illustrated by such a comment as the actual deposing of an emperour , i cannot think it needful to subjoyn any farther enforcement ; but proceed to the remaining allegation from the determination of the council of constance ; which in the seventeenth session decrees , defines , and ordains , that whosoever , whether he be king , cardinal , patriarch , archbishop , bishop , duke , prince , earl , marquess , or of any other condition or dignity , either ecclesiastical or secular , shall hinder , disturb , or molest sigismund king of the romans and hungary , and the king of arragon , from meeting , &c. shall incur the sentence of excommunication , &c. and shall be deprived of all honour , dignity , and office , &c. where , by the way , we may take notice , that this council , who lay so severe penalties on the violators of their safe conduct , were not asham'd perfidiously to violate it themselves on iohn huss , who in confidence thereof put himself into their hands . besides this , we alledge from this council pope martin's letter , approved by the last session of the same council , where his holiness admonishes and requires all professors of the christian and catholick faith , the emperour , kings , dukes , princes , marquesses , earls , barons , &c. that they drive out of their kingdoms , provinces , cities , &c. all hereticks , according to the tenour of the lateran council , which begins , sicut ait , &c. and then decrees , that all hereticks , partakers or defenders of them , though they shine in the dignity of patriarchs , archbishops , bishops , kings , queens , dukes , or any other ecclesiastical or mundane title , &c. shall be pronounced excommunicate in the presence of the people , every sunday and holy-day , &c. and requires that they proceed to deprivation of dignities , &c. now our author to all this given in proof by me from these oecumenical councils , as the romanists stile them , opposes the authority of one iohn bishop , who in a book written in the time of q. elizab. proved that the constitution of the lateran council , upon which the whole authority of absolving subjects from their allegiance and deposing princes is founded , is no other then a decree of pope innocent the iii. and was never admitted in england : yea , that the said council was no council at all , nor was any thing at all there decree'd by the fathers . so then we are come to a resolution of faith , if one single man shall write a book against a received doctrine in the church , that founds it self on the decree of a universal council , and shall deny that council to be valid , or received in a particular church , that doctrine however received or founded , as is above mentioned , ceases to be the doctrine of the church : which , if it be true , i believe 't will be almost impossible for any man to be a heretick ; some one or other having wrote a book in the defence of his tenet , how heterodox soever it were , and disparaged the authority of that council that condemned it . but this author , who relies so much on the credit of iohn bishop , should have adverted to those very cogent arguments which cardinal perron produces in his long speech to the third estate , and dr. vane has since brought in favour of that council , and his confutation of all suggestions alledged on the contrary part . also he should have taken notice of the subsidiary proof lately added by f. labbe , and cossart , editors of the councils now at paris , who there from a copy supposed to be written in that very age , give the canons of that council in greek deficient , chiefly in those parts , where the controversie between the eastern and western church was determined to the disadvantage of the greeks . and lastly , he should have considered that the council of trent , whose authority he will not dispute has alledged the canons of this fourth lateran council , and therefore it will not be very reasonable to oppose i. bishop to all those fathers . but to pass this : how comes it about that our author tells us , this council was never admitted in england ? did he consider what power the pope then claimed in this island , when he had rendered , and openly stiled the king his vassal ? as also how much work the english had , to do in that assembly , particularly in the case of stephen langton , then archbishop of canterbury , and that the canons of that council were allowed and confirmed in the national synod held at oxford , a. 1222. had he told us that this convention , notwithstanding all its pompous pretences of so many patriarchs , emperous , kings and princes , bishops and doctors that attended at it , was nothing but a scene dressed up in masquerade ; he would perchance have said something to the purpose : for instance , that the man who play'd the greek emperour , was hen. brother to baldwyn earl of flanders , that had lately before seised constinople and some few more of the greeks towns , with the arms of the croisade ; and had no other title to his conquests , besides the pope's gift : that the latin emperour , who yet was but elect , was the popes pupil ; so made by the will of his mother constance , and chosen emperor by the popes influence , who had unmade two emperors before , of whom one , i. e. otho . 4. was then living , and the next pope save one , innocent the iv. deposed this very emperour : farther , that iohn de brenne and almerick held the kingdomes of ierusalem and cyprus of the popes gift : that our king iohn was become his feudatary , and as his holiness was pleased to stile him his vassal ; that iames king of arragon held by the same copy , who besides was a minor and pupil to the pope , who was so favourable as to give him a crown , whose father had deserved so ill as to forfeit to his holiness both kingdom and life . then farther , that philip king of france had his kingdom twice put under interdict by this very pope , and was threatned worse : that andrew of hungary was also by this very pope threatned with deprivation , and having thereby learnt obedience , became his creature and favourite ; and was made by him general of the croisade against the mahumetans , as simon de monifort was of that against the hereticks of france ; and the princes of flanders , of that against the greek schismaticks . this , one would think , were a fair account of all the crown'd heads that sent their embassadors and bishops to this council . but the ecclesiastical part of the comedy was of the same piece ; for of the four eastern patriarchs , as they call them , three were italians , and one a french man ; all made by this pope , and no more own'd by the people of those churches , to which they pretended then his holinesses titular bishops use to be . our business here is not to consider , whether this or other councils were free or obnoxious , since they be received by the succeeding roman church , and by our author himself . i would leave this point , but that our author is pleased to assert a very strange paradox , that though i cited the third lateran council , that of lyons , and that of constance besides this fourth of lateran ; yet on this fourth the whole authority of absolving subjects from their allegiance , and deposing princes is founded . not to dispute the superstructures of the two after councils ; certainly the third of lateran , could not well build on the fourth , which was not then in being : i am sure the council of constance was so far from owning the having learnt this lesson from the fourth lateran council , that they expresly quote the third for the most orthodox doctrine of treason and rebellion ; where by the way i cannot omit to mention the wonderful dexterity and confidence of cardinal perron , in his oration to the third estate , who in this matter produces the decrees of this council as a sufficient security for princes ; as also of the pen-man of the controversial letters , who seems no stranger to our author , and desires us to look upon the church of rome in a council , to be convinc'd that she does not favour this deposing power : and also singles out this very council , to shew the orthodox doctrine of the most loyal roman-catholick church , whose decree i even now cited on the contrary part : when as the writer of the controversial letters , plainly confesses , that the story is no more then this : there had prevailed an opinion in this age , and it was seconded by practise , that the people might at their pleasure correct their offending lords , and kill tyrants , notwithstanding any oath made to them , without expecting the sentence or command of any judge whatsoever . and this with much ado was condemned in this council , though it cost iohn gerson a great deal of pains , and more then that , the imminent hazard of his life , to compass thus much ; that it should not be lawful for any ordinary cut-throat to destroy soveraign princes ; but remain the singular prerogative of his holiness the pope . i shall not exaggerate consequences , nor pursue this topick , which my author complains never fails when any one has a mind to declaim against papists , but hope , that notwithstanding his profession , that he is yet to learn the name and scituation of that countrey which believes it ; 't is manifest as noon-day-light , that whosoever believes the article of the roman-catholick church , must also , as large a morsel as it is , be content to digest , at least swallow this . enquiry iv. whether princes of the roman communion , have sufficient powers to defend themselves from the tyrannies and encroachments of the pope ? we have seen the doctrine of the church of rome , concerning the popes power over princes , which if it be truly stated , ( and i think nothing in the world is evident if my argumentation be not ) will easily determine the issue of this enquiry . for not to insist on the many defects both intellectual and moral , which are pretended to incapacitate for government , or otherwise forfeit it , discoursed at large by the canonists , and more largely commented on by practise , in the deposition and removal of such princes by popes ; if we suppose them in all points qualified for rule , and zealous assertors of the roman faith , yet notwithstanding upon any disobedience to the churches dictates , or contumacy of any kind to her commands , which may subject them to the censure of the church , and the displeasure of his holiness , and thereby expose to excommunication , ( of the due infliction whereof they only are judges , ) all right and authority upon the principles before laid down , immediately becomes forfeit : and the very questioning hereof in thesi , the thing being determined by oecumenical councils , and so made de fide , will be heresie . and now whereas no prince can maintain himself without the obedience of his subjects , and ready execution of his ministers , i demand whether upon any difference started ( and unless the prince will tamely give up all , there must be many ) a minister of state will dare to uphold and defend the rights of his master , in opposition to the pope ? if he do , he is sure to bring all the hatred of the pope and clergy upon him , and it is observed , that ministers of state have seldom weathered the opposition of the gown-men of either sort . but what if we should say , that princes themselves dare seldom adventure to maintain their own rights against the pope ? not to insist upon the personal apprehensions they may justly have of a dagger from a clement or a ravilliac : it is not unknown to any , that princes , even when in peace , live with the jealousies and precautions of war , and are as industrious for accession of allies and advantages to themselves , as to prevent those of a contrary party ; still expecting and providing for a storm in the deepest calm of tranquillity and peace . if ( as sometime heretofore they did ) all europe submitted to the pope , what advantage or disadvantage to any prince would the good will of the pope be ? what influence would he not have ( by the clergy ) amongst the people of any prince , if not absolutely to raise rebellion , at least to slacken and abate the zeal and fervour of the people ? what diversions to this or that holy war , or interpositions for peace could he not make , as it should suit best with the party he shall most favour ? and how hardly could such plausible desires be denied to the holy father ? these and the like considerations render the kings of france and spain so jealous of the making popes or cardinals : though it is certain the popes dare not be so openly partial and unequal to princes ( nor would that partiality be so fatal to their interests ) now as heretofore , because the reformation hath spread into many countreys which value not the inclination of the pope ; but rather incline to the party he most opposes ; which as it seems a counter-ballance , so is it a great awe to the pope , lest their partiality should force princes to cherish and favour the protestant party , and perhaps even to throw off his yoak : but if ever the church of romo could eradicate the reformed religion ( which doubtless is and ever must be their great drift and aim . ) princes of the romish religion would find the want of that check and awe upon the pope . will you see how tender and fearful princes have been heretofore of claiming their rights in this kind ▪ see ed. 3. a brave and a magnanimous prince , in the vigour of his age , in the 25 year of his reign , when he comes to claim and vindicate his rights in ecclesiastical matters , he is so fearful of offending the pope , that he seeks all possible excuses even whilst he is claiming his own . first , he layes the fault on his predecessors , and quotes the statute made in his grandfathers time : in the next place , the grievous complaint of the commons must bear its share ; then the injury to private patrons is called in for a pretence , as if that gave rise to the complaint ( when all this while the king had power enough from the rights inherent in the crown , and from former statutes , if he durst put it in practise ) then ( which is a wonderful instance of his fear to offend the pope ) for a farther excuse , he sets up a claim for his people , to the prejudice of his negative voice ( the greatest and choicest flower of the crown ) for in the statute of provisors of that year , he makes the commons to alledge ( nor is there any mark of his dislike , but rather assent to it , so desirous he was of an excuse toward the pope ) that the right of the crown of england , and the law of the said realm is such , that upon mischiefs and damage which happened to his realm , he ought and is bound of the accord of his said people in his parliament thereof , to make remedy and law in voiding the mischiefs and damage which thereof cometh , &c. then the king goes on himself to alledge his own oath to see the laws executed , &c. as the reader may satisfie himself more fully from the statute at large , as it appears in all our books . i suppose this may sufficiently show how fearfully that great and generous prince ( not subject to vain fears ) went about to remedy that inconvenience : what fruit he reap'd from the hazard he adventur'd : and how effectual that great medicine ( our author so highly commends to us ) was , may be conjectur'd by the need there was of another statute of provisors , the very next parliament , viz. the 27 year of his reign . it would be too tedious to the reader and my self , to quote all the statutes of that kind ; instead of others which it were easie to produce , i shall onely add that of the 16 of rich. 2. cap. 5. where the commons of the realm having complained of the intolerable tyrannies and oppressions of the see of rome , go on to pray the king , and him require by way of iustice , that he would examine all the lords in the parliament , as well spiritual as temporal , severally , and all the states of the parliament , how they think of the cases aforesaid , which be so openly against the kings crown , and in derogation of his regality ; and how they will stand in the same cases with our lord the king , &c. whether this examination was in order to the attainder of the persons , or suspension of the votes of the dissenters , or some other purpose , i will not take upon me to enquire ; certainly considering the greatness of the peerage of england at that time , such a way of procedure shews the greatness of the mischief which was desir'd to be redrest . but the continued complaint and fresh endeavours for remedy , do likewise as evidently demonstrate that none of our kings ever found an effectual cure , till the time of henry the viii . who yet , although he retain'd the roman profession of faith , denying temporal subjection to the pope , became liable to that deprivation and censure , and all that spiritual thunder which so severely fell upon him ; and has since exercised his successors . but these our princes who came after him , having generally been of the reformed religion , which they of rome have declar'd to be heresie , the practises among us however exorbitant , will not fall under our present consideration . i shall therefore pass over to our neighbours of france ; and examine how well the priviledges of the gallican church have stood the most christian kings in stead , which will readily be seen if we look into their histories : nor will we seek farther than the last age. henry the third we know had difficulty enough with the catholick holy league , oppos'd not only by the high-flown jesuited romanists , but the bulwarks of regal authority , the loyal doctors of the sorbon , who being seventy in number , unanimously decree , nemine contradicente , that the subjects of france were freed from their oaths of allegiance and obedience made to henry the third : and also that the said subjects may legally and with a safe conscience arm and unite themselves , collect and raise money , &c. which decree of the good doctors was ratified by his holiness in his bull of excommunication , which suddenly followed ; and was pursued to such extremities by the leaguers , that they were not onely content to subject that kingdom to the yoak of spain , but in despite of the sallick law , endeavour that the infanta clara eugenia elizabetha should succeed unto the crown ; and though the king turn'd covenanter himself , and establish'd the oath of union in the assembly of the three estates , and personally swore to it , making it a fundamental law of the french nation , that onely a catholick should be capable to succeed unto the crown , yet notwithstanding this , the said henry the third could not escape the anger of his holiness , and what is consequent thereto , the being depriv'd of his kingdom and his life , massacred by i. clement , the iacobin-monk . to him we know succeeded henry the v. who after great strugling , and the same opposition from the unanimous determination of the loyal sorbon-doctors , in their general congregation , who may 7. 1590. declar'd henry of bourbon uncapable of the crown , though he should obtain absolution from the church , and that the french were oblig'd to keep him from the crown ; that all who favour him are in perpetual mortal sin ; and all that are slain in the cause against him shall obtain an everlasting reward , and be crown'd with the trophies of martyrdom . this henry , i say , having by the blessing of god , and a good sword , added possession to his claim , and in spite of opposition made himself master of france ; yet this new sallick law stood still in his light , and a crown was not to be had but at the price of a mass : for though it be a receiv'd maxime , that the crown removes all taint of blood , it cannot of opinion . one now would have expected in this instance , that the church doors should have flown open to receive this royal convert : but the case is far otherwise . five years diligent agitation in the court of rome , and attendance on three several popes , can scarcely compass this great work of bringing a straid royal sheep into the fold of christ. the difficulties made herein will abundantly appear , as from the histories of that age , so more particularly from cardinal d' ossat and perron's memorials . and truly 't is remarkable when the matter was adjusted , to what submissions the king in his representatives was fain to descend : how his commissioners in his name and behalf , beg remission prostrate on their faces ; and being drub'd and bastinado'd , as the insulting italians word it , or as the french confess , being switch'd by his holiness , hardly ▪ obtain'd an absolution for their master , who was farther oblig'd to renounce his former inauguration and absolution given him in france , and to swear the extirpation of the protestants . but when all this was done , the pacification was not fully made ; but this mighty prince fell by the poniard of a ravilliac , and the implacable papacy , as is notorious to the world. the successor to these , lewis the xiii . having before him , the catastrophe of his two immediate predecessors , one would have thought might reasonably be allowed some farther provision for his safety and assurance of the allegiance of his people : and to this end the third estate drew up an oath of fealty to be taken by all his subjects : but it is not imaginable with what fury this was oppos ▪ d by the pope and clergy ; what violent and long harangues were made in the house of peers and commons against it ; what gratulations were sent to the clergy of france by his holiness for their generous opposition of that oath , complementing it as a defence of his , and therein the churches rights . the speech of cardinal perron is a sufficient account of this matter , which was at large answered by the royal pen of king iames , and therefore needs no new unraveling . but beyond all this , there is a particular which is not commonly taken notice of , and deserves not to be forgotten : 't is this : after the cardinal in his long harangue in the name of the clergy of france , had baffled and exposed the power of kings , and endeavoured to subject both it and their persons also to the discipline and coercion of the church , and concluded that at best , the point of princes being exempt from deposition was barely problematical , and consequently could not be matter of an oath : the king fearing to provoke so strong and eager a party ; called the aforesaid bill for the security of his person , to his own hearing , and made an express inhibition to the several estates , that they should not proceed farther in it , or sign or publish what they had drawn up . but this would not serve the turn , the ecclesiasticks would not sit down with a drawn battail ; but insolently depute in their names the bishop of anger 's , with other prelates and capitulars , among whom were cardinal perron and sourdis ; where cardinal perron being the spokes-man , told the king to his face , that this matter lately contested was a point of doctrine ; and though in his speech to the third estate he had declar'd it to be problematical ; now to cut it short , he asserted that the power of the pope was full , nay most full and direct in spirituals , and indirect in temporals : that whosoever maintained the contrary were schismaticks and hereticks , even those of the parliament who had suck'd the milk of tours . that if the king would not immediately cassate the arrest of the parliament , and would not raze out of the registers the conclusions of the kings officers , he had in commission and charge to say , that they would depart from the assembly of estates ; and that being there as in a national council , they would excommunicate all those who were of a contrary opinion to the proposition which affirmed that the pope could depose the king. and if the king would not suffer them to proceed unto ecclesiastical censures , they would do it notwithstanding , though they were to suffer martyrdom . we have here ( if i mistake not ) plain enough the judgment of the church of france . would we see what was the opinion of the pope upon it ? upon the 16 of febr. there was brought , and opened , and read in the chamber of the clergy , a brief of the pope paul the v. bearing date the last of march 1615. sub annulo piscatoris , wherein his holiness returns his solemn thanks to the clergy of france , for what they had done against the article of the third estate , wherein his power was concerned , desiring them to persevere in the same mind . which brief , by the way , was read in their chamber without any leave had or ask'd from the king or council . and truly if the most christian king be treated thus by his subjects in duty to their soveraign the pope , notwithstanding the primogeniture , and other pretences of that crown ; what shall we of england expect , who stand in worse circumstances ? we must not wonder or take it amiss that pope urban the viii in the year 1626. by his ▪ bull bearing date may 30. forbad all roman catholicks to take the oath of allegiance : and since the happy restoration of his present majesty , when several of his subjects of the papal profession , offered by oath ( wherein the supremacy is wholly wav'd ) to assure their duty and obedience , that the pope and his agents look'd upon this overture as apostacy from him , that is , from the christian faith. and persecuted all those who are concern'd in the proposal , of which see the controversial letters , and the late history of the irish affairs . nor lastly , will it be at all strange , that at this day many eminent persons of the romish religion , who by the great indulgence of the state are permitted , notwithstanding their differences in judgment and interest from the rest of the kingdom , are upon assurance given of their loyalty by the easie test of promising it under the seal of an oath , permitted to have the personal and free use of their votes in the judging of causes in their last appeal , and what is the highest trust imaginable , the making of laws , and sit as peers in the great council of the nation , do now refuse to give the aforesaid assurance by taking the oath of allegiance , though that be the general condition previous to session , laid not onely upon them , but all the rest of their fellow-subjects . it is not for me , or any private person to determine of the rights of our superiours ; but by duty and allegiance we are obliged to defend them . this i think may be laid down as a maxime , that no power is of any moment , when set in opposition to its superiour ; and that all pleas follow the last appeal : so that if the spiritual soveraign be plac'd above the temporal , 't is vain to talk of any rights the temporal can plead in prejudice unto the other ; and to speak the whole matter in one short word , princes can have no sufficient powers against encroachments from the papacy , who , if the popes and churches pretentions stand good , whenever they think fit to interpose , have no power at all . and thus much be said upon this head of enquiry . enquiry v. whether religion was the cause of the massacre in france , and rebellion in ireland ? i no way doubt that mens exorbitant passions and desires are the cause of all the disturbance in the world. according to that of the apostle , whence are wars and fightings among you ? are they not from your lusts that war in your members ? but our author knows well , that besides the leading principal original cause , there is an immediate evident one , which is joyn'd to the effect ; which alone in a discourse of this nature we enquire after . now if it be manifest that his holiness the pope , the supreme monarch of the church , laid his command upon , and with great instance dealt with the french king to destroy the hugonots , had his promise and engagement that he would destroy them ; and after he had done it , it be certain that the news of the performance was receiv'd with joy and exultation by the whole roman court , and pope himself , i hope it will be sufficiently manifest to whom the action is to be imputed . i do not say that his holiness either design'd the manner of the massacre , or was privy to all the circumstances of it before-hand : but if i bargain with a ruffian that he shall kill such a person , whom i take to be mine enemy , though i do not contract whether he will do it with a pistol , or a sword , or with poison ; yet if the murder at my instance be committed , no sober judge or jury would doubt to find me guilty in the case . now that the pope was thus far accessory to that bloody carnage , appears from ierom catena , secretary to cardinal alexandrino , in his life of pius v. dedicated to pope sixtus v. who mentions his holiness his engaging in this matter , as an instance of his pious solicitude for the advantage of the church ; in particular he tells us , that when his master cardinal alexandrino , the popes nephew and legat in france , with great instance moved the breaking of the intended marriage with the king of navar , and that the legat to divert it perswaded a match of margaret daughter of france , with sebastian king of portugal ; in answer to which , the king taking the legat by the hand , bid him assure his holiness pius , that he concluded this marriage for no other purpose than to take vengeance of the enemies of god , and to chastise his rebels , as the end should manifest : and that he did all this to obey the instructions and the counsels of pius , who perpetually incited him not to indure such injuries committed against god and the crown : and that he took this course because he knew no better way to compass his end , than thus to make those of the religion secure , having tried all other means : then pulling a diamond of great value off his finger , he said to the legat , take this as a pledge and security of my promise , and the faith which i will alway bear to the apostolick see , and to execute all that i have said against these impious wretches . he adds farther , that the legat excused himself from receiving the ring , pretending that he had kept himself from taking any thing from the hands of any prince to whom he had been sent : and besides , that he took the word of so great a king to be the surest pledge and security : but that the ring , after the death of pope pius , was sent to rome by the king unto cardinal alexandrino in a casket , on which were engraved these words , non minus haec solida est pietas : nec pietas possit mea sanguine solvi . so that if we will believe either the pope who directed , or king of france who executed this tragedy , 't was piety and religion , which was the motive to it . as to the espousal and owning of this bloody fact , after its execution , i may not hope to express the joy it brought unto his holiness , since the historian tells us that it surpasses the comprehension of speech , and as he terms it , it was indicible . it created a jubilee in its liberal importance ; and whereas the tongue was unable to speak out the full resentment , gesture and action were call'd in to use their rhetorick ; and not onely all the pompous solemnities of a procession and triumph , of which the head of the noble coligni , sent as a token from france to his holiness , was a mean and inconsiderable circumstance : but almighty god was put into the pageantry , and a solemn thanksgiving at the church of st. lewis , was an instance of the grateful piety of the pope and cardinals on this occasion . let me make this matter plainer , if it may be , by an instance taken from our own histories , which ad hominem will i assure my self be conclusive beyond controul . it is the case of thomas a becket , wherein k. henry the second being no farther concerned , then that after intolerable affronts and perpetual vexations given him by that insolent prelate , he being in passion , and asking if he should never be rid of so inveterate an enemy , though ( as baronius relates it ) the irregular deed that followed was neither acted by his will or consent , nor done by any contrivance of his ; yet because the murder of that prelate was consequent to his impatient words , the poor king was by the judgement of the church declared guilty of the whole fact , and by the sentence of the popes legates , besides the sacrificing several rights of the crown , and payment of large sums of money ; made to walk bare-foot several miles to the cathedral at canterbury , where attending a whole day and night without sleep or food , he received from the monks his subjects , on his naked back , above fourscore lashes . and if a king was thus far criminal for occasioning , though beside his intendment , the death of one of his rebellious subjects ; what shall we say of that universal pastor , who directly advised and commanded the slaughter and destruction of so many thousands of all degrees , ages and sexes , whereof a great part were certainly more innocent than that unhappy man , whose blood was esteemed so sacred , could be thought to be ? having given this account of the massacre in france , let me see next whether my author be in the right in his account of the rebellion in ireland ; where not to rip up that old sore , and shew how the romish factors fomented and blowed up those unhappy flames , and the pope having absolved by his bulls his majesties subjects from their allegiance , took upon himself to be their prince and general in the person of his nuncio , exercising all regal powers , and that not only upon the poor protestants ; but even the papists also , who were guilty of that mortal sin , the designing to desert rebellion , and returning to his majesties obedience : this i pass over , being the matter of a just history , and shall produce only two testimonies in evidence to my present conclusion , and both of them of so early a date , as not to admit that common excuse , which the irish are alwayes ready to offer ; that they did not rebel against the king , but fought against his enemies and regicides . the first of these shall be the brief of pope urban to oneal , bearing date octob. 8. that is our sept. 28. 1642. which was before the first battel between the king and his rebels in england at edge-hill . the brief runs thus , to his beloved son eugenius oneal . you are accustomed to omit no occasion to testifie your singular zeal and endeavour which you derive from your ancestors of defending the church ; and of this you have given a recent testimony by designing to go into ireland to take care of the concerns of the catholicks : wherefore your letters came very welcom to me , whereby you signifie your intended voyage , and taking your auspice from the divine assistance , have not less humbly than religiously desired of us our apostolical benediction . we highly commend your constancy against the hereticks , and sincere faith ; expecting from you in this opportunity , the proofs of your valour , which have formerly given you renown , and will be exemplary to others . we hope the most high will be at hand to assert your cause , and will make known his saving health among all nations . in the mean time , that you may proceed with greater assurance , praying incessantly to the divine clemency , that he would frustrate the endeavours of your enemies , we give to you , and those others who promote the affairs of the catholicks in the aforesaid kingdom , our benedicton ; and to all and each of them , if they being penitent , are confest and duly refresht with the holy communion , if it may be had , plenary remission and pardon of their sins , and also at the point of death plenary indulgence . dated at rome under the seal of the fisher , the 8 day of octob. a. 1642. and of our papacy 20. my next proof shall be from a zealous votary of the church of rome ▪ father o-mahon , in his apology for the right to the kingdom of ireland , in behalf of the catholicks against the english hereticks ; and his exhortation , where after other laudable documents , he thus bespeaks them . my countrey-men of ireland , go on and prosper , fulfil the work which you have begun for your defence and liberty ; destroy the hereticks your enemies , and all their abettors ; you have already killed an hundred and fifty thousand of them in these four last years ▪ i mean from 1641. to this present 1645. wherein 〈◊〉 , the which your enemies in their writings roar out and 〈◊〉 ; and you acknowledge , and i believe , that more of the hereticks have been killed , and would to god that all had been so . it remains that you destroy those that yet survive , or at least drive them out of ireland , that they may no more infect our catholick country with their heresies and errours . i shall trouble the reader no farther on this head , but desire him to take his choice whether he will believe my author , who sayes the rebellion of ireland was not for religion ; or his holiness ( whom in this case we may allow to be infallible ) who sayes it was : or if we will avoid so odious a comparison , whether we will think our author speaks truth , or father mahun , who was not a stranger to the action he talks of , and would be thought to know what belongs to war and religion , as well as any of his neighbours ; though , by the way , he also confutes that representation which our author makes of the small numbers of protestants murdered by the rebels ; for our author seems to suggest , that indeed this thing which we talk of as a massacre , and a war , was only a scuffle at a wake , where a few broken shins or beads determined the quarrel ; and after the application of a plaister of diapalma , all was presently made well again . but there is nothing so manifest , that some romanists have not the confidence to deny : and truly , they who teach their votaries in the immediate concerns of their immortal souls , to renounce all their sences and reason to boot , need not despair of obtruding any thing upon the credulous world . it may here be expected , that from the before-going premisses , i should now draw out conclusions , and those severely pressing on that whole sort of men , who under divers hotious and pretences call themselves roman catholicks ; that i should exhort our patriots to oppose sanguinary laws against inhumane bloody practises , and pecuniary , or other strict restraints against licentious principles . to put it out of their power to hurt the publick , whose very religion makes it impossible for them to give any competent security that they will not destroy it : and in a word , to avert those mischiefs by precaution , which if allowed to gather strength , will be so fatally destructive , as not to be repaired 〈◊〉 after punishments . but this is not my aim , who press the discoveries which i have made , no farther than to arm those who are so fortunate to have been educated in a faith of peaceful duty and obedience , not to be tempted by false pretences to desert it ; and to perswade all those who have been so unhappy to be entangled in that endless maze of error the roman church , to quit both it and those pernicious guilts , which i have shewed to be its necessary and individual adherents . i contend not against names and notions , but vice and mischief ; nor am i angry with men , but with that which destroys human society . i would not make any faction look worse than it is . but i can never hold that for religion which teaches men to violate their faith ; to worship wood and stone ; to make , and then devour their god ; to blow up senates ; to massacre nations , and kill kings . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a48817-e170 * declarat ▪ of egregious ▪ popish impostures , &c , foot out of the snare . examination of sowbrets , &c. boy of bilson , &c. chambers . sheldon . a tho à jesu , de convers . omn. gent. p. 561 , &c. ibid. ibid. b response au livre de monsieur l' ev●que de condom , en l' avertisement . d p. 7 , 8 , &c. bull pii iv. f animad . p. 76 , 77 , &c. g consult . p. 56. h p. 13. i p. 8. pontif. p. 94 , 95 arch. spotswood . history p. 803. pontificale rom. watson's quod libets , dialogue between a secular priest and lay-gentleman . a true relation of the faction begun at wisbich . quod. p. 37 , 69 , 88 , 89 , 265 , 266 , &c. 275 , &c. 303 , &c. * discourse of the powder treason . apology for the oath of allegiance . premonition to all free princes and states . answers to cardinal perron and bellarmin , &c. ‖ sir george crook's reports , part . 2. term trin. a. 2. iac. r. in banco regis . first controversial letter king iames his discourse of the powder treason . proceedings against the gun-powder traitors . 3 concil . lateran . tom. conc . 27. 4 concil . lateran . tom. concil . 28. tom. conc ▪ 18 p. 11. harangue au tiers estat p. 61● . &c dr vane vindicat , of the council of lateran . tom. 11. part . 1. concil trid. sess. 4. can . 8. mat. paris in ann . 1222. binnii concil . tom. 7. part . 2. harangue au tiers estat . first controv . letter . the life of gerson prefixt to his works . and tom. 1. p. 375. & 3. p. 69. p. 9. 25 ed 3. cap. ult . davil . l. 10. conclus . facult . paris . d ▪ aubigne , tom. 3. boter . relat . thuan. hist. lib. 137. harangue au tiers estat . recueil tres exact & curieux de tout ce que l'est fait & pass de singulier & memorable , en l'assemblee generale des estates tenus , à paris en l'anne 1614. bar florim . ● rapine . pag. 356. pag 410. first controversial letter . james 3. vita del glori●sissimo papa pio quinto , p. 195. mo●ray , ann. 1572. thuan. hist. l. 53. stow. speed. chron. in hen. 2. baron . in an. 1169. disputatio apologetica de sure regni hiberniae pro catholicis hibernis adversus haereticos anglos , autore c. m. hiberno artium & s. th. magistro , &c. num . 2 ▪ p. 19. lex talionis, or, the author of naked truth stript naked fell, philip, 1632 or 3-1682. 1676 approx. 90 kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from 23 1-bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : 2004-03 (eebo-tcp phase 1). a41074 wing f644 estc r20137 12676598 ocm 12676598 65573 this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons 0 1.0 universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase 1, no. a41074) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set 65573) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, 1641-1700 ; 353:21) lex talionis, or, the author of naked truth stript naked fell, philip, 1632 or 3-1682. gunning, peter, 1614-1684. lloyd, william, 1627-1717. [2], 42 p. printed for henry brome ..., london : 1676. "first ascribed to dr. peter gunning; afterwards to dr. william lloyd; but on better grounds, it is ascribed to rev. philip fell, fellow of eton college"--halkett & laing (2nd ed.). reproduction of original in union theological seminary library, new york. created by converting tcp files to tei p5 using tcp2tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between 1473 and 1700 available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the 25,363 texts created during phase 1 of the project have been released into the public domain as of 1 january 2015. anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. 5% (or 5 pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of 100 instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level 4 of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p5, characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng croft, herbert, 1603-1691. -naked truth. church of england -apologetic works. episcopacy -history of doctrines. 2003-09 tcp assigned for keying and markup 2003-09 spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images 2003-10 rina kor sampled and proofread 2003-10 rina kor text and markup reviewed and edited 2003-12 pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion lex talionis : or , the author of naked truth stript naked . london , printed for henry brome at the gun at the west end of st. pauls . mdclxxvi . imprimatur . g. jane r. p. d. hen. episc. lond. à sacris domesticis . lex talionis : or , the author of naked truth stript naked . to the chapter concerning the articles of faith. i have perused the pamphlet which you sent of naked truth , and whereas you require me to give you my opinion of it , though i might refer you to the printed discourse of that worthy person who has animadverted upon it ; yet because this would look like an artificial excusing of pains , and seem only more civilly to disobey , i will trouble you with the cursory reflections which i made upon a hasty view of the aforesaid book ; wherein i shall chiefly aim at two things not particularly designed in the printed answer : first , to shew that this humble moderator ( as he stiles himself ) who pretends in his title to give the true state of the primitive church , is utterly ignorant of ecclesiastical antiquity , and grosly mistaken in the representations he makes thereof . and then secondly , whereas he boldly avers to the lords and commons , to whom he has the confidence to dedicate his libel , that there is nothing therein contained which is contrary to the known laws of the land ; i shall evidence that several things therein contained are as contrary to the known laws as his printing without licence confestly was : and that the book is pernicious , and tending to the disturbance of the establish'd constitution of the church and state. as to the book considered in the gross , my first reflexion about it was , whether it could be the work of the same person , several things being so well , and more so very ill said ; therefore if it hapned to have one single author , it either seem'd the exercise of wit of some sceptic and atheistical derider of religion , who desired to make sport with holy things , and say pro and contra , all that occurr'd to his mind : or else that it was wrote in the different intervals of a craz'd enthusiast , and therefore not unseasonably introduced by a declaration of being the product of fasting and prayer , and seeking of god , venerable words which have not left off to abuse the world : or lastly , ( which seems most probable ) that it was wrote by some ambitious discontented person of the church of england , who not preferred according to his merit , or what may be greater than that , his expectation , his mind being leaven'd with spite and anger , cavils at the present constitution of the church ; and he having in ill humour left off studying , writes out of memory imperfect shreds of antiquity , and yet not able to cast away at once the principles formerly imbib'd , sometimes speaks in favour to conformity , and quarrels the disobedience of dissenters . but to pass from conjectures to that which is more certainly before us . at the first setting out our author tells us , that the primitive church received the apostles creed , as the sum total of faith necessary to salvation . and then disputes , why is it not now so ? which involving an intimation that in the church of england it is not thought so , can only tend to sedition , being an odious suggestion ▪ and absolutely false : and it is known , that scarcely any thing is more particularly insisted on by our church against the papists than their making new articles to the creed . but it seems the fault will rather lie upon us , that with the primitive church , we think the whole creed necessary : for we are bid remember and observe , that the treasurer to candace his creed was only , i believe that iesus christ is the son of god ; and no more that this purch●sed the kingdom of heaven , &c. that is , the articles of the death of our saviour , his resurrection , and ascension ; at least , those of the catholick church , the communion of saints , the forgiveness of sins , and resurrection of the body , are if not superfluous , yet unnecessary speculations . how well this sutes with the close of the athanasian creed , our author would do well to consider : if it shocks it , then he must confess that he has said something contrary to the known laws of the land : the liturgy ( of which that makes a part ) being confirmed by several acts of parliament , and in particular the late one of uniformity . moreover , the statute of primo eliz. which established the oath of supremacy , determining the limits of heresie to be , not only what has been ordered or judged to be so , by the authority of the canonical scriptures , but also by the first four general councils , or any of them ; he may bethink himself , whether the system of what is to be held de fide , by the law of the land , is so narrow as is here pretended . but our author says , philip required no more ●of the eunuch than this short confession , that i believe that iesus christ is the son of god , and that there is no assurance nor great probability that he was more fully instructed ; which is plainly to contradict the text of s. luke , who tells us , that philip ( from the place of isaiah which the eunuch was reading ) began at the same scripture , and preached unto him jesus ; which certainly expresses a greater compass of particularities than is in the short system here proposed . yet farther , it would be considered whether our authors argument be good ; philip required no more , but baptized him on this ; and had the eunuch departed this life in the same instant that philip parted from him , i believe i have better assurance that thi● faith would have saved the eunuch , than any man hath that he was ever taught more ; therefore that confession here required , is a sufficient summary of faith. for sure there is more required as necessary to be known of a man , than of a child in christ. such a knowledge as perswades to the undertaking the covenant and duties of the gospel , may entitle unto baptism ; but yet neither involves the knowledge of the whole gospel , nor supersedes the necessity of it . as to the event of the eunuchs condition had he departed this life immediately after baptism , it is as much to the purpose as if one should say , that if an infant immediately after baptism should depart this life , he would be saved even without the eunuchs creed , therefore even that may well be spared . but after a complaint of the mischiefs arising from the establishment of new and many articles of faith , and requiring all to assent unto them : ( which let them who are guilty of doing answer for it ) the author goes on to say , that for his part he thinks nothing can be more clearly deduced from scripture , nothing more fully expressed in scripture , nothing more sutable to natural reason , than that no man should be forced to believe . whereby he means , or else he can mean nothing , ( for what appears not is as if it were not ) that no man should be forced to declare his belief of any thing . now since the scripture under the severest penalties requires the confession of christ before men , it is not sure contrary to scripture , that persons should be forced to declare their belief ; and if so , will not be thought unsutable to natural reason neither . but now let us see whether this assertion of our author be not contrary to the law of the land , notwithstanding the assurance we have from him who tells us , there is not a word in his discourse against it . the oath of soveraignty , enjoyned by the statute before mentioned , primo eliz. commands the subject to testifie and declare in his conscience , that the kings majesty is the only supreme governour of this realm , and of all other his highness dominions and countries , as well in all spiritual or ecclesiastical things or causes , as temporal , &c. so likewise the other tertio iacob . i truly and sincerely acknowledge , profess , testifie , and declare in my conscience before god and the world , &c. and the act of uniformity commands the abjuring of the covenant , and assenting and consenting to every thing contained in the liturgy . and after this , let my author consider with what duty and good manners he concludes , thus you see how impertinent , how irrational , how impious it is to require a man to believe ( that is , profess his belief of ) any thing more than is clearly contained in scripture . the truth is , we , dull as we are , do not at all see this impertinence and unreasonableness , notwithstanding the beautiful illustrations of the eye and the candle , the hammer and the beating out the brains . st. paul hath taught us that heresie is a work of the flesh , and we know pride , and prepossession , and interest are of more concernment therein than want of faculties and apprehension . the thing complained of is , that men turn away their faces , shut their eyes , and will not lay their heads to consider what is set before them : and if the immorality of error be once cured , there will be a speedy account of its misadventures in speculation and theory . the will of man has an higher pretence to freedom than the intellect ; tyranny can make me suffer , but cannot oblige me to approve , much less to chuse : and yet it is not impertinent or irrational to require men to will , and , what is more than that , actually to perform their duty : nor can any sufficient cause be rendred , why perverse and stubborn men should not be made to learn it and consider it too ; which plainly is their duty , and previous to the performance of it . the scripture indeed commands to speak the truth in love , to instruct the brother in the spirit of meekness ; and the same scripture has made the greatest christian monarch , and his meanest vassal brethren ; but notwithstanding that , he bears not the sword in vain ; and in love and meekness , and with the greatest kindness and charity , is obliged to cut off the evil doer . the question , to what purpose is force ? would indeed do well in the mouth of a ranter or anabaptist , and i might answer thereto , that it is ordained by god to punish the rebellion of such a question by sharp severities ; but i shall content my self to repeat the apostles words , just now recited , the magistrate bears not the sword in vain ; there is a purpose why fo●ce should be used , and all sober men understand it , though our author knows not of it . what is added of the scripture rule of faith being compleat and full is seriously to be considered : but he who straitens the credenda into one short proposition of the eunuchs creed , may in likelihood be as blameable in diminishing from it , as any can be by adding to it . though , by the way , our author is to know , that the explication of faith , is not the extending or making new articles of it . and what he says of requiring men to believe with divine faith what they add to the scripture , is to make their words equal with god● : if this refer to the church of england , first he proceeds on a false supposal , that there is somewhat added , when there is not any thing added ; and secondly , it is notorious , they have never pretended that any thing ought to be believed , as scripture , or with divine faith , but scripture . so that the exaggerations of impertinent , irrational , and impious , fall to the ground , unless they may chance to rest upon the head of him who to seditious and uncharitable purposes produces them . the next paragraph desires it may be soberly considered , that the trinity , incarnation , resurrection are things far above the highest reason , yet believed , because god , who cannot lie , hath declared them : and that it is strange that any one should take upon him to declare one tittle of them more than god hath declared . but i desire to be allowed to put in a caveat , that men should not be suffered to declare several ( not tittles , but ) articles , less than god hath declared ; that our authors direction concerning the quashing the whole debate of the omoo●sios and omoiousios may not be admitted ; and for quietness sake we may not be latitudinarian arians , and theists ; pretend to admit the scripture-doctrines in our own extravagant sense , and therefore to be liable to no controul ▪ or farther rendring a reason of the faith that is in us . it is easie to say , that the bishops who contended in this great controversie were more zeal●us th●n dis●re●t : but they who have read the history of those times ( which it is plain our author never did ) know very well that the orthodox , if they were defective in any thing , offended in permitting by their lenity arius to infect the world and form his party , before ever they took notice of him : and the discreet advice here given by silence to prevent the malice , rancor , persecution , and war , which fell upon the orthodox ▪ might as well have been given to the christians , during the ten persecutions ; and doubtless might have preserved many thousand lives , and damned as many souls . the instance here mentioned of the resurrection falls very pat to the purpose ; the scripture hapning to afford a parallel of what our author thinks so adviseable . the resurrection ( he tells us ) whereby men shall rise with the same body , when one body may be eaten and converted into several bodies , is far above the highest reason and sharpest understanding ; yet was believed by hymeneus and philetus , because god had declared it : yet they by keeping within the bounds which god had declared , and referring it to that which was perfectly true , the first resurrection from the death of sin , destroyed the faith of some : and it is to be hoped that st. paul was not more zealous than discreet , because he was so earnestly concerned against them . there is no arian nor socinian who professes not to believe in jesus christ the son of god , or allows him not to be god ; but our author must hold us exc●sed , if we expect farther satisfaction in so weighty a concern , and examine how these gentlemen stand affected to the tenure by which he holds his godhead , and the shiboleth of his eternal generation , and the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . i am no friend to the unravelling of mysteries , and making them so evident as to forfeit their nature ; yet i must not be so much a socinian , notwithstanding our authors opinion concerning the procession of the holy ghost , of i will send the comforter : or of the sacrament , this is my body : to believe every one orthodox who admits those words to be scripture , and declaratory of truth . he says indeed , that we have no other s●fe way to speak of divine matters , but in scripture l●ng●age , ●psissi●is verbis , with the very same words . how then i pray comes it about that we may speak of them in dutch , or french , or english ? they are none of them the ipsissima verba , the original hebrew or greek . it were easie to shew how much of our creed the socinian would have us cashier on this account , and how pestilent consequences have been drawn from these unhappy premises . nay , let us give even the socinians their due , they in their sober moods are not so extravagantly mad as is our author . volkelius in his fifth book and seventh chapter says , sacris voluminibus ob ipsorum perfectionem , nihil nec adjiciendum nec subtrahendum , hoc tamen non eo consilio à nobis dictum existimari velim quasi omnes dictiones , omnes sententias , omnesque collectiones iisdem literis ac syllabis in s. scriptura non expressas ob hoc ipsum repudi●mus . nam vel dictio aut phrasis aliqua subaudiri , vel sententia aliqua si non verbis , reipsâ tamen in s. literis contineri potest , vel denique ex iisdem colligi . id autem qualecunque est perinde habendum existimamus , ac ●i disertissimè scriptum extaret . neque enim in sola verba sed praecipuè in verborum sententiam animum intendere debemus . such is the perfection of the holy scripture that nothing is to be added to , or taken from it . this we say , not that we reject all words , sentences , and inferences , which are not there in the same letters and syllables . for many times words and phrases are to be understood ; and divers things , though not verbally , yet really may be be contained in the scripture , or inferred from it . all which we take to be the same thing , as if it were most expresly written , for we must not consider naked words , but the meaning of them . thus much a soberer man ( i am sorry to add , a better principled christian ) is this socinian , than our pretender to naked truth ▪ but he is so liberal as to give a reason of h●s opinion : if in divine matters we once give way to humane deductions , a cu●ning sophis●er may soon lead a weak disputant into many errors . truly very well urged ; whose fault is it that men are weak disputants , or being so , that they will meddle with controversie ? st. paul has abundantly provided in the case , him that is weak in the faith receive ; but not to doubtful disputations . men of parts and learning will comprehend a deduction as perfectly as the text it self : and they who are deficient either in natural or acqui●ed knowledge , will understand neither one or other ; whereof we have an example here before us . and now a mighty heat is struck upon the sudden against school-divinity , as the greatest plague to christian religion . in which career our author , to shew his learning , tells us , that the school at alexandria was the first divinity-school he reads of . he might have better told us of the school of one tyrannus , where st. paul read his lectures . certainly the angelical , the irrefragable , the subtil , and most founded doctors would have been very proud of s●ch antiq●ity as the age of pantenus : but peter lombard , it is likely , would not have taken it well to be robb'd of his mastership ; and to be made an usher , nay , school-boy to pantenus . well , we will pass this over ; the school of alexandria , we are told , was set up by pantenus . our author might more ●easonably have said , that it was set up by st. mark ; had he ever heard of e●sebius his relation , he could not have been so grosly ignorant . in this very account here pointed to , he expresly says , that this school was in pantenus his time , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . there was of ancient custom , settled with them a school of the holy scriptures . now pantenus lived in the time of commodus , and what could then be said to have been from ancient times , will bid fair to be almost as old as christianity it self . our author goes on with the same ill stars , and the very next period is a new misadventure : from this school , says he , sprung forth t●at damnable heresie of the arians . what shall we say if arius were neither bred up at all , nor was a professor in this school ▪ but an afri●an by birth , and a plain parish priest of alexandria ? nay farther , what shall we say i● this school was employed in an honest catechism-lecture , or exposition of the scripture , and had nothing more to do with teaching school-divinity than in teaching anatomy or mathematicks ? will not this gentleman , whoever he is , appear a wonderful meek writer ; fitter to deal in a romance than church history ? of his country and employment epiphanius informs us , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; he was of libya by his country ; and being made a priest in alexandria , was preferred to the church called baucalis . and that we may be more assured of the nature of his employment , epiphanius presently reckons up the other churches of that great city , and recites the names of several of the rectors of them . that this school was for catechizing , st. ierom is most express , who in his catalogue of ecclesiastical writers , says that clement , after pantenus ; alexandriae ecclesiasticam scholam tenuit , & 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 magister fuit ▪ clement after pantenus kept the ecclesiastical school at alexandria , and was catechist there . we see then what a goodly bracelet of ●alse pearls our author has hung together upon a string in hopes to adorn himself with them . one would now have the curiosity to ghess what should come into his head positively to assert so many false and extravagant things . was pantenus a heretick , or noted for a great sophister and man of notions , and thereby obnoxious to have the great plague to christian religion , school-divinity fathered upon him ? nothing of all this : he is by eusebius ( l. 5. c. 10. ) stiled , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , a most famous man , and said to have shewed so much , and such divine zeal for the word of god , as to have gone and preached the gospel unto the indians : and that after his return he was made master of this school ; where partly by words , partly by writing he expounded the treasures of divine knowledge . but secondly , had this school at any time been so unfortunate as to have bred up notorious hereticks , or perverse disputers that did mischief in the church ? nothing of this neither ; it was the happy nursery of the most eminent propagators of the christian faith , and at this time when arianism entred the world , merited this character , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . it continues to our times , and is celebrated for persons powerful in the word , and study of divine things . what then could be the matter that should hare and lead a poor innocent man into such a maze of falsehoods ? why surely no more than this : he had heard from the parson of the parish , or some other good body in discourse , that the arian heresie took its rise from alexandria ; that it supported it self much with quirks of philosophy , and sophistical nicities ; and that there was a divinity-school at alexandria , and a notable man , one pantenus , had been master of it ; and now if this were put together , and all the heresies of the world laid upon the back of this pantenus and school-divinity , it would make a very pretty story , and look like a learned account of antiquity . just as if a stranger sho●ld have heard , that there was a mischievous fanatical rebellion , which overr●n the whole nation , and was the cause of the destruction of so many tho●sands of christians both body and soul , fomented and carried on at westmi●ster in england ; and likewise that there was a famous school , and one dr. lambert osbaston , a noted man ▪ had been master of it ▪ and then should tack all this together , and say , that westminster school was a seminary of fanaticism and rebellion , and that dr. lambert osbaston was the first and chief promoter of it . now this ridiculous fable is far more probable than that which our author obtrudes upon us , in that several of the ringleaders in the la●e rebellion , as sir arthur haslerig , sir harry vane , scot , and others , were really scholars to dr. osbaston , and governours of that school ; nothing of which nature can be truly suggested of the other . but our author goes on , and has certainly made a vow not to say one true word in this whole paragraph , and keeps it most religiously . his following period runs thus : the heresies before thi● were so gross and sensual , that none took them up but dissolute or frantick people , and soon vanisht : but after this school-subtil way of arguing was brought into christianity , heresie grew more refined , and so subtil , that the plain pious fathers of the church knew not how to lay hold of it , &c. but now what will become of us , if there were refined , and spiritual heresies before ? nay , in a manner if this very heresie were so ? what if they were followed by men neither dissolute , nor frantick ? nor did soon vanish ? and that the fathers of the church were not so plain men , but that they knew how to encounter this school-divinity monster ? has not our author the worst luck of any man that ever put pen to paper ? as to the sensuality and grossness of heresie ; no● to look higher than the confines of this age we talk of , surely neither novatianism , nor the heresie of sabellius , or paulus samosatenus , of which arianism was but an off-set , were gross or sensual : nor were novatus , tatian , tertullian , and origen , who were all very considerable men , and fell into heresie before this time , ever noted for being frantick or dissolute people . but on the contrary , their very severity of life , and zeal for vertue , were the prime occasion of their heresies . nor did their heresies soon vanish , but continued for several ages , some in their own , others under new names and titles . and whosoever reads the controversies of those times will find that the pious fathers of the church were not quite baffled by school-distinctions and evasions ; nor did these sophisters , proud of their conquest , triumph and carry away a specious appearance of truth : but the advantage of arius was quite of another kind in application and address . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . he was of taking and pleasant conversation , always glozing and flattering , as epiphanius tells us ; then adds , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . he addrest to each particular ●ishop with insinuating arts and flatteries , whereby he drew in many to be partizans with him . and , as sozom●n expresses it , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . his party finding it their interest to prepossess in their behalf the bishops of each city , they sent their ●gents to them , with confessions of their faith .... w●●●h practice turned mightily to their advantage . but th●●r chief advantage lay in their court insinuations , first with constantines sister during his life ; and after with constantius his sons after his death ; and when the aria●s had the suffrage of an emperour on their side , we need not imp●te it to sophistry that they prevailed . our author , having not as he thinks fully enough discovered to us the mysteries of his knowledge , goes on , with the same ausp●ces of ignorance and error , to acquaint us farther : that this great bane of the church took its rise from hence : many of the primitive doctors and fathers , being converted from heathenism , and having by lo●g and great industry acquired much knowledge in natural philosophy , antiquity , his●ory , and subtil logick or sophistry , were very unwilling to abandon quite these their long studied and dearly beloved sciences , falsly so called ; and therefore translated them into christianity , &c. and now we know perfectly the true cause of all the heresies that ever came into the church . i will adventure notwithstanding all this to add one more to the number , and say , in opposition to what is here averred , that christianity received more advantage from philosophy than ever it did damage from it . it is true , as tertullian tells us , that the philosophers were the patriarchs of hereticks , but it is as true , they were the champions of christian truth . he must be a stranger to every thing that relates to the church , who know not how much religion ows to iustin mart●r , athenagoras , ammonius , pantenus , clemens of alexandria , and ( notwithstanding all his misadventures ) to origen himself . the last and most dangerous attempt against christianity was the setting up heathen morality , gilded over with magick against christian ethicks ; laboured by apollonius tyanaeus , porphyry , iamlichus , plotinus , hierocles , simplicius , and several others : and had not the good providence of god raised up the before mentioned , and other eminent christian philosophers , to attaque them in their strengths , and fight them with their own weapons ; it is to be feared our holy faith would not have had so easie , or so clear a victory over the world. but because our author has so particular a pique against sophistry , i shall desire him at his leisure to read the twenty ninth chapter of the seventh book of eusebius's ecclesiastical history , the title of which chapter is , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . how paulus samosatenus , baffled and confuted by one malchion a priest , who had been a sophister , was deposed . and sure the sophister may be allowed to have done no small service , who baffled and confuted that so considerable heretick . but the stop put to the donatists schism , by the interposition of the civil magistrate is a great mote in our authors eye , and one way or other he will be sure to remove it . first , he tells us , it is well known the donatists were a sect very turbulent in behaviour . alas , our author has a confessors memory , and has quite forgot the unpeaceable temper of our dissenters , and how naturally conventicles mustered themselves into armies : but which way the enforcing a confession of faith comes to be our case , he will do well to interpret himself . if he speaks against the penal laws ; and the tendering of the oath of supremacy to recusants thereby directed , be the enforcing a confession of faith which he speaks against ; there is again somewhat contained in his book which is contrary to the known laws of the land. fearing the success of this answer , he offers another , which is , that for ought any body knows these seeming converted donatists were only hypocrites , who for the love of the world , more than for the love of the truth , forsook their heretical profession ; or if their hearts were really changed as to belief , it is evident they were worldly still , and not one step nearer heaven . first , if for ought any body knows these donatists were only hypocrites , for ought any body knows they were sincere ; and charity obliges to the better side . as to the carnality of their hearts , it is gods , and not our authors , prerogative to judge of them ; in the mean time , it is surely of some good effect , to have set the understanding right , though a thorough reformation be not made on the aff●ctions . the ill luck is , the reasoning of our author herein , if it prove any thing , is as valid against the secular m●gistrates restraining immorality and vice , as well as error . for men may be hypocrites , and carnal in their hearts ; may design and wish murder , fraud , and theft , though for fear they dare not act them . our author has more solutions in his budget , and is very liberal of them , for he goes on , and says , that though we farther grant the pruning of the magistrates sword did really correct the viciousness of the tree , yet we must not dò evil that good may come of it . that is , to punish hereticks is in its self , and in its nature evil . this , i confess , comes home to the point , and would have superseded the former : but the proof is wanting , and must ever be ; for the assertion is false , as we have shewed above : and is contrary not only to all the imperial laws , made against hereticks , as also the ecclesiastical of this national church ; but the municipal , against which our author gave the parliament his engagement that he had not spoken a word . but the illustration of this his position is wonderfully pleasant , i mean the instance of peter's cutting off malchus his ear , for which he is sharply reproved , and threatned with perishing by the sword , &c. as if because st. peter , a private man , might not use the sword against the magistrate , the magistrate might not neither against a private man. but lastly , if none of all the answers will conclude , there is one in reserve that infallibly will do the feat , it is th● turkish and mr. hobbes's appeal to fate : they who are ordained to eternal life will believe , and the rest are hardned , the sharp●st sword in this world will not enter the hard heart more than an adamant . and so farewel to all exhortations and instructions ; to all threats , rewards , and punishments : nay , to all arguments and discoursings . our author was predestined to talk absurdly , and the sharpest reason in this world will no more enter the hard head than an adamant . our good man recapitulates the whole matter , and would have us not mistake him . all this he says in reference to compelling men to believe or conform , reserving to the magistrate power to punish evil doers , not evil believers . i pray sir remember once more your promise to the parliament ; whatever shift you will make to palliate the matter concerning there not being laws to compel men to believe , i am sure there are laws enough which would fain by penalties compel men to conform ; and here you tell us , that all this long discourse is levelled against them . what pity it is that great wits , and men who speak untruth , have not better memories ? whatever punishment they are worthy of who disobey the laws ; they deserve much greater who stand in defiance , and dispute against them ; but what shall we say of him who at once denies and boasts his guilt , robs in the midst of an assize , and while he does so , cries out unto the judge , and desires him to take notice that he does no harm ? to the appendix . our author having abridged the articles of faith into his eunuchs creed , one would have hoped his comment would have bore some proportion to his text , but he has not yet shewed all his learning , and profound knowledge in church affairs ; and therefore we are blest with his bounty in an appendix . and first , his instances of the millenary error , infants communicating , the cro●s and chrism , have ( if one mark it ) a mighty neighbourhood with the articles of faith ▪ and the first reformers by discarding the use of most , and taking away the abuse of all of them , have discovered their shyness , and timorousness to reject that authority which they had long reverenced : and in modesty some of them admitting the authority of the f●thers and councils , for three or four of the first centuries , some admitted five or six , whereby they were reduced sometimes to great streights in their disputations . a heavy charge indeed upon the first reformers , that they had a reverence for fathers and councils ; and the instances brought are wonderfully proper to demonstrate the streights to which protestants are likely to be brought in their disputations , the most of them being equally rejected by all with whom they have occasion to dispute . not to wast time with such a tri●●er , i leave the question proposed to the papists , by what r●le they reject some things , and retain others ? at their best leisure to resolve : and to that offered to the evangelical , by what rule they submit to the authority of some centuries , and refuse others ? without his help i shall frame a ready answer . our rule we borrow from tertullian , illud verum quod primum : and add , th●t in all concerns of religion we make our resort and utmost appeal to scripture ; but own also a great deference to antiquity ; but by antiquity ▪ mean not , as our author fondly imagines ( who talks of sacred things , as if he had newly put off his apron ) the opinion of three or four write●s of all the first ages ; no● of all of any one ; ●ut the uniform concur●ence both of times and persons . now , why the la●er centuries should not be lookt upon with the same reverence as the forme● , is in it self evident , they having not the like stamp and character of antiquity . besides , our controversies being chiefly with the papists , whose exorbi●ancies breaking in upon the world most notoriously abo●t the sixth century , we think upon the common rules of judiciary proceeding , we have all reason to decline the testimony of obnoxious persons and times . i am weary of pursuing step by step insolent impertinencies ; and therefore for this time shall l●t pass the pygmy and the giant ▪ the charge upon iren●us , papias , st. aust●● , and lactan●ius ; with the good character of our authors own zeal , sincerity , and eminent parts , it being , as he says , possible , nay , ( what you will wonder at , having seen his discoveries in the stripping of truth ) probable that there may be in the world another who has more natural understanding , and more acquired learning than himself . and shall proceed to his next stage of councils , where we are told roundly , that all the evangelical doctors grant , that the later general councils have erred . i beg our authors permission to differ from him herein ; and humbly conceive that he will scarce meet with a considerable number , who allow any of the later councils to be general : and if they say any have erred , they shew reasons how they came to do so , without destroying the credit due to the decisions of the church ; or our saviours promise , that the gates of hell should not prevail against her . and therefore the rest of his harangue about councils , being most of it false , and all of it impertinent , i shall say no more of it . to the chapters of ceremonies . our author begins this chapter with his wonder , why any one of tolerable discretion should be so eager either for , or against ceremonies . what , in the mean time , is to be done with men of our authors kidney , men of intolerable discretion , wiser tha●●heir superiours , than the church wherein they live ? le● them who are against ceremonies answer for their eagerness ; there are others who find great reason to be eager for them . when a king of spain pressed a general of his to pass over a punctilio of honour which belonged to hi● 〈◊〉 , saying , that it was but a ceremony : he replied smartly ▪ that nothing differenced the king from him but ceremony . when our author shall have planted his levelling , quaker●gospel ; and perswaded princes to relinquish their ensigns of royalty ; the sages of the l●w to sit upon the bench i● cuerp● ; the lord mayor of lo●don with his fraternity to part with their liveries , and unaccountable formalities ; nay , that his lordship should quit but his chain and great horse : or lastly , that our author , with all his self-denial , should condes●end so far , that he will be pleased to sit below his kitch●n ▪ maid at table , or light his plough-boy up to bed ; we will endeavour to think as slightly of ceremonies in religion ( where sure , if any where , there should be awe and reverence ) as he would have us . not long since our neighbours of holland refused to strike sail to his majesties flag , upon which a bloudy war ensued . shall we borrow now our authors rhetorical apostrophe , and cry out , my fathers , my fathers , so much christian bloud spilt , so many orphans , so many widows made , so much treasure spent , and all for a ceremony ? i pray mount a turnip cart , and preach to the heathen world the spirit of the hat , and hold forth that striking sail is the same idolatry in a ship , as the putting off a hat is in a brother . certainly , there is some dismal mischief in these ceremonies of the church , else there would never have been such a loud outcry of o my fathers , my fathers , will you restrain the liberty of the gospel to the rigidity of your discipline , to lose some , to lose many , and perchance in the end to lose all , your selves and all ? be pious , be charitable , be prudent , &c. let the world judge if such a charge , as this seems to import , be not the declaring or speaking something in derogation to , and depraving of the liturgy of the church , forbidden under severest penalties in the act of uniformity , primo eliz. and if the expostulating with the governours of the church , for doing their duties themselves , and endeavouring that others should do it ▪ be not contrary to the known laws of the land , which enjoyns those duties , both to bishop and people . what our author would be at he plainly tells us in th● ensuing period , you will say , if you yield to some dissenters in this , you must as well yield to others in that , and so by degrees abolish all your ceremonies . to this he roundly replies , ● beseech you , is not the ●ody more than r●iment , substance more than ceremony . which is plainly to say , that to gratifie dissenters we ought to discard all ceremonies , and in contradiction to st. paul , who enjoyns that all things should be done decently and in order , nothing is to be done decently and in order . i must have leave to say , that in this instance raiment is the body , ceremony is substance . i may put off a sca●ff , or belt , or perchance a coat in a cold winters day ; but should i throw off all my cloaths , i should certainly kill my self . a ceremony , considered in individuo , or retail , may be of no great moment ; but they , taken in genere , and in the bulk , are absolutely necessary . the following objection , that by parting with ceremonies , which tend to the encreasing devotion , preserving order , and giving glory to almighty god , we shall displease our friends , and then lie exposed to our enemies to spoil our goods , is of more moment than to be thrown off by saying , that our goods are only faith , hope , and charity , and that these stood firm in the primitive times , when there was not one of our ceremonies to preserve it . surely , the scandalizing those who do their duty , by our breaking the laws , is a greater mischief , than to displease those who violate their duty , by our keeping the law. a scandal only taken is of less moment , than one both taken and given . and if faith and hope happen to be unconcerned in this whole matter , yet charity is sure the natural product of decency and order ; and the common rule , that it ought to begin at home , is here to take place , and their satisfaction be most studied who are of the houshold of faith , rather than the humour and caprice of the desertors of it , moreover , upon a true account it is not charity to dissenters to humour them in their disobedience towards their spiritual superiours ; no more than it is , to give impunity to that of rebels , against their temporal . but were there no ceremonies among the pri●itive christians ? what shall we say of the kiss of charity , or was there not one of ours , surely laying on of hands , kneeling at prayer , the peoples answering amen after it , the having the head uncovered in religious assemblies , were more than one of theirs , and are our ceremonies . i am weary of being a scavenger , and sweeping together all the straws and dirt , which this unhappy write● scatters as he goes ; and there being nothing but clamour and sedition in the rest of this chapter , or that which follows concerning church-service , which only , after a few complements sprinkled upon discipline and order , labours to disparage the present constitution , and levels those who are concerned for their duty and obedience , with the wild rabble of sectaries and fanaticks . i shall without more words dismiss the inquest , and go on to what follows . to the chapter of preaching . the chapter concerning preaching is a most unreasonable reproach of the church of england . after that the uniform vote of all our neighbours has given us the preference in this particular , the ministers of the reformed churches , germans , hollanders , danes , swedes , french , and switzers , learning our language generally to take benefit of our sermons , and many travelling hither for that end ; our author , led to it by his excellent good nature , labours to shew his talent in depreciating what strangers so must esteem . there was a time when nicity of division , and the flowers of a polyanthea were somewhat in fashion ; but those days are long since done , a practical sober way of pressing christian duty is generally taken up , which has as little of the quid , or the quale , or the quantum , as our author seems to have in his head ; or has discovered in his writings . his project for preachers is as extravagant as his character of our sermons . they must be grave elderly men , not raw novices from the vniversity with all their sciences and languages ; but rather ●ober persons of age and experience , having a good natural capacity , &c. that never saw the vniversity , and knew no other language than their mother tongue : that is , they must be experienced farmers , illuminated coblers , or gifted weavers ; and these , no doubt , as they did twenty years since , would bring about a thorough reformation ▪ these would redeem the church from that great contempt , the aristotelists , scotists , aquinatists , with their ▪ knacks of quiddities , and qualities , syllogisms , and enthymems , distinctions , and subsumtions , and the handsome school-boy exercise of the very good preachers of the age , have brought upon it . he goes on to tell us , that his heart bleeds to think how many thousand poor souls there are in this land , that have no more knowledge of god than heathens , &c. it is truly a lamentable thing , that where the gospel has been so long , and so h●ppily planted , any should be ignorant of it . would to god all the lords people were prophets ; but in the mean time let us not be so ungrateful , as not to own with all due acceptation and thankfulness that our people , generally speaking , are better instructed in all the parts of saving knowledge than any nation in the world. and we may say it with perfect truth , and therefore without vanity , that they have also the most learned and sufficient clergy : men that understand the athanasian creed much better than our author , who in his first chapter has done what his little knowledge , and violent passion could effect , toward the undermining of it . the truth is , i cannot but wonder how it is possible for a man , that did not design to put scorn upon religion , to offer such mad and unaccountable proposals , and the while talk demurely , and in scripture phrase , as if he would be thought to be in earnest . to the chapter concerning bishops and priests . the long chapter of bishops and priests is of the same strein with the former , it cries hail master to episcopacy , acknowledges the apostolical antiquity and dignity thereof ; and then fairly goes about to ▪ betray it : whether presbytery , or erastianism , or atheism be at the botton of the design , it is not easie to divine : that which is obviously apparent is , that one thred of ignorance runs through the whole discourse ; neither what petavius means , nor what the character of priesthood is , nor what the practice of th● ch●rch w●s , i● at ●ll understood ▪ b●t a long blunder is ●ade about a. b. c ▪ as if there we●e no other character● in the world besides those of the alphabet ; or as if the matter were as unin●elligible as the great mystery he talks of . which is to be known only in a metaphysic●l w●y of abstraction ; that the superiour species contains th● inferiour genus . indeed the nature of a genus or a species , which is no more than every school-boy understands , who has learnt so much of his grammar , as to know what a noun appellative is , requires not much niceness of metaphysicks ; but the superiour species , and inferiour genus are terms of art that the dull logicians of the university stand amazed at . aristo●le said of a man that he was arbor inversa ; but our author has here turned upside-down porphyr●es tree , and by it turned a man into a horse , for so he goes on in his learned metaphysick lecture . a man , a ration●l cre●t●re contains the anim●l●ty of an ho●se , the inferiour crea●ure : but doth not contain a real hors● in his belly , nor can a man b●get hors●s , or men when he pleases ▪ nor can you truly say a man is a horse . i believe my school me● would take it in snuff , should i affirm ●ny of them to be horse● . here having mended the matter , and reformed a horse from being an inferiour genus to a man , and made him an inferiou● creature , he says that he contains the animality of a horse . upon which hypothesis , whether he will be as ill natured as the schoolmen , and take it in snuff i know not ▪ but i am sure that i can irrefragably prove him to be a horse ▪ and the thin sophism ▪ which every fresh-man learns to solve within a week after he comes to the university , will be against him an unanswerable demonstration : which , to try his patience , i propose to ●im in common form thus ▪ he that says , my author is a living creature , says true ; h● that says , he is a hor●● , says that he is a living cr●a●●re ▪ therefore he who says , he is a horse , says true . there is no denying the syllogism , and saying it has four terms . that though indeterminate animality be enunciated of the species , yet that which is determined by the contrary diffe●ence may no● : tha●● is , the ani●ality of a b●ute c●● belong only to an irrational animal , as that of a man to a rational ; for our author has precluded himself from that answer , by saying expresly that a man , a rational creature , contains the animality of a horse , the inferiour or irrational creature . and now if my author be not a mere animal , let the world judge : and this comes of despising logick . let us now see whether his divinity be better than his philosophy . after this hog-shearing , where we have had so loud a cry and no wool , we will if we can pick out a little sense ; the thing he aims at proving is , that bishops are not superiour in order to priests ; a thing , by the way , directly contrary to the liturgy of the church , and thereby the law of the land : but yet they are superiour in commission , and by vertue of that can govern , exercise the power of the keys , and ordain priests and deacons , which priests , ordinarily speaking , may not . well , if this commission were from heaven , and stand upon that scripture basis , of as my father sent me , so send i you , by vertue whereof the bishops , during the first ten persecutions , governed their flocks in despight of all secular opposition , and retaining part of their administration to themselves , disposed of some to priests and deacons ; which is as notorious in fact , as any thing in the world : the bishops may do tolerably well , with this new word commission , instead of the old of order . especially , since in the close it is confest by our author : that in this order the apostles left the church at their death , and in this order their successors continued it ( as in duty sure they ought ) from time to time near 1500 years without any interruption wherefore for any to alter this way of government , or to take upon them to ordain , not being chosen this way to it , they would be guilty of great rashness and high presumption . nor will it be in my authors power to kick all this down again , as he endeavours in the following period , by making the orders given by priests though irregular , yet firm and valid ; for if this power be from heaven , and separate from all secular authority , as to its nature and original ; though limited by it in its exercise and application : no man upon any pretence can take this honour to himself or confer it on others , but they who were called of god as was aaron . but let us see how well our author confutes the distinction of order between bishops and priests ? t is ridiculous , says he , that the priesthood which is capable to do the greatest things , to consecrate the souls of men by baptism and the lords supper , yet forsooth cannot consecrate oil and cups ? i desire to know whether a deacon cannot consecrate the souls of men by baptism and the preaching of the gospel , or if they can , whether they are of the same order with priests ? or whether a judg who has power of awarding life or death which is the greatest thing , may also make a knight which is a less , and if therefore a judg and a king be of the same order ? this word ridiculous is very unlucky , and commonly returns on him who is most busie with it ; but since we are faln upon the instance of a king , for farther illustration of this matter let us consider the monarchs of the east , who permitted the whole administration of their affairs to their favorites , as we read of pharaoh that he pulled his ring off his hand and said to ioseph , without thee no man shall lift up his hand or foot in all the land of egypt , and according to thy word shall all my people be ruled ; but for all this pharaoh and this his minister of state were not of the same order ; for in the throne he was greater then he . though the king had stript himself of the whole execution of his power , and put it into the hand of his favorite , yet so long as the origination of it continued with him , he was as absolute , and the other as subject as ever . t is true the bishops power is in itself subordinate and ministerial ; he must not lord it over the inheritance of god , but as to the dispensing of it to the inferior orders , the parallel will hold ; they all act in subordination and dependence upon him . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , saies ignatius . no priest or deacon for several centuries ever did it without particular leave given by the bishop , nay the lector or reader did not so much as read the gospel till first he had brought the book to the bishop , and had his permission to go to the ambo or reading pu● with it ▪ and though the licence with us be not no● every day renewed , yet the dependence is still owned in th● very form of our ordination , where the bishop says to the person ordained , take thou authority to read the gospel in the church of god , and preach the same when thou art thereunto licenced by the bishop himsel● . but a farther argument is taken from the promiscuous use of the name of bishop and presbyter , to prove they are of the same order , which sure is one of seeblest ways of proving any thing ; the whole force of it amounts to this , st. peter and st. iohn call themselves presbyters , but were also bishops ; therefore presbyters and bishops are all one : which is as much as to say , that his maj●sty is king of great britain and knight of the garter ; therefore to be king of great britain and knight of the garter is all one . nay st. paul stiles himself a deacon , as well as an apostle ; therefore to be a deacon and an apostle is all one , but if our author be not satisfied with this , let him read the thirteenth chapter of the most learned bishop of chester's vindiciae ignati● and he will see how accurate the first christian writers were in distinguishing the three orders of bishop , deacon and priest. we will go on and attend him in his talent of book learning , wherein he has been hitherto so unfortunate , and see how in his following expedition he mends the matter . and here he tells us that aerius ( whom , by the way , he constantly calls arius ) was not a heretick upon the account of his introducing a parity between bishops and priests , but only for being an arian . that is , epiphanius made a list not of several heresies , but a catalogue of several arians : and the 69. heresie being assigned to arius , it passes the muster again in the 75. heresie under the auspice of a●rius . it is agreed on all hands that discontent made aerius a heretick , for that eustathius whom he thought a worse man then himself , was preferred before him : and being in power , though formerly his particular friend , considered him no farther then to make him master of an alms-house . we are then to believe that out of discontent aerius turned arian ; but as ill luck would have it , eustathius was of that sect , and if he had a mind to quarrel with him , nothing could have been so proper , as to have turned orthodox in spight . it is manifest he was originally an arian , and the prime part of his heresie was what his malice naturally dictated , and all writers agree it to be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , &c. he entertained a mad opinion , beyond what a man would receive , saying , what is a bishop better than a priest ? there is no difference between th●m ; there is but one order , the same honour and dignity . since our authors greek reading fares no better , let us go on to consider his latine ; and there is no missing st. ieroms epistle to evagrius , which is so clear in the point , that without more ado it converted our author , who it seems was once an episcopal man , into that errant presbyterian that now he is . withal it makes him wonder , and if the reader understand latine , he will wonder to see men have the confidence to quote any thing out of it for the distinction between episcopacy and presbytery . well , i have read over the epistle , and , as our author says , wonder , but it is at his great confidence to say , that there is nothing to be met with in it , to found a distinction between episcopacy and presbytery , when as he expresly reserves the power of ordination peculiarly to the bishops , which is the point chiefly contested between the assertors of episcopacy , and patrons of presbyterian parity . as to the second desire , that the reader should observe the various fate of st. jerom and aerius , that the one is reviled as an heretick , the other passes for a saint : i will satisfie my author in that particular , and shew him a plain reason for it . aerius set himself against the apostolical government by bishops , dogmatized , and separated himself from the church : st. ierom always obeyed his governours , and remained in communion with them , upon other occasions exprest his opinion in behalf of their authority : and here only in a private epistle to a friend , and that a very short one , being scandalized at an unseasonable opinion , which pretended deacons to be equal in dignity to priests ; as it is usual in such cases , he depresses what he can the order of deacons , and exalts to his utmost that of priests , in the mean time does not so much as attempt to prove any thing more than barely saying , quid aliud facit episcopus excepta ordinatione quod non facit presbyter ? what does a bishop more than a presbyter besides ordaining ? and then reckoning up several actions common to both . our kind-hearted author hereupon tells us , that this presently converted him ; nay , as if this good nature of his were as meritorious as grace , he thereupon assures himself , that great is his reward in heaven . our man of learning with his accustomed dexterity and confidence runs down the business of colluthus his ordination of priests , and pities poor bishop hall for going about to prove from thence , that presbyters were not capable to ordain . how slightly soever our author thinks of the matter , socrates in the first book of his history puts it under the blackest character . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . he privately adventured on an action worthy of many deaths , who , having never been ordained a priest , did those things which belonged to the function of a priest. this you are to know was said of ischryas who had as good orders as colluthus a priest could give him , but yet antecedently to the decree of the council of alexandria , is declared never to have been ordained a priest. let up now see why the old man was so much to be pitied , because he had quite forgot that the famous council of nice , consisting of above three hundred bishops , had made a canon , wherein they declare , that if any bishop should ordain any of the clergy belonging to another bishops diocess , without consent and leave had of that bishop to whose diocess they did belong , their ordination should be null . you see the irregular ordination of a bishop is as null as the irregular ordination of a presbyter : therefore the irregular bishop , and the irregular presbyter are of the same order , of the same authority ; neither able to ordain . our author , according to his usual sagacity , knows no difference betwixt an act that is null and void in it self , and an act voided by law. there is no question but bishops , and priests , and deacons for their crimes may be degraded and deposed , but that is not the same thing with the never having been bishops , priests , or deacons . the council of alexandria declared the ordinations of colluthus to have been void ab initio , that of nice voids those that are irregular . surely these are very different matters . that the invalidity of the ordination in the later case was of this kind , that is , made invalid by way of penalty and sentence , we may learn from the thirty fifth apostolick canon ; by which both zonaras and balsamon interpret this of nice ; who decree that in case of ordaining in anothers diocess the bishop 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , both he be deposed and they who were ordained by him . and truly if they were to be deposed , it is plain the orders were in themselves valid ; and it is unquestionable that the ordaining bishops were so : which is not to be said , and can never be proved of a mere presbyters . and therefore the triumph which is added here of dashing out the indelible character , or that the line of a diocess is a conjurers circle , might very fairly have been laid aside . and i appeal to the reader , and more than hope he will see how no proofs are brought for this identity and parity of order ; no scripture , no primitive council , no general consent of primitive doctors and fathers ; that he is perfectly out in every thing he avers , and therefore for his poor judgment he may do well to keep it to himself , and probably his judgment is so poor because he himself is rich . he in likelihood has imployed his time in secular concerns , which had it been spent in study , would have rescued him from such gross misadventures , as he at every turn incurrs . but though the matter stand thus plain bef●re us , yet ●ince our author has had the confidence to cite the council of nice in proof of the nullity of irregular orders : to shew with greater evidence his perpetual ignorance and mistake , i will throw in for vantage the proceeding of this very council in the case of meletius , who had usurpt upon the rights of peter patriarch of alexandria , in the point here contested of ordaining within his diocess ; the words of theodoret are 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . he invaded the ordinations belonging to the other . now the council decreed herein , that meletius should be suspended from the future exercise of his function , and retain 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the bare name of a bishop , but do no act of his function either in the city or villages ; but the orders conferred by him were as to their intrinsick validity ratified and acknowledged . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , those already ordained should communicate and officiate , but come after the clergy of each church and parish . 't is to be wondered at , how this man who seems to have always lived in a hollow tree , came to have heard by chance that there was once such a thing in the world , as the council of nice . to the chapter of deacons . our author is resolved on all occasions to shew that he thinks himself wiser then both the church and state , and therefore in defiance unto both , he attempts to prove that deaconship is not holy orders ; and to bring about so g●n●rous a d●sign , he makes nothing of st●●ining a point with the scripture , since t is so unkind as to stand in his way . it so happen'd that petavius discoursing of deacons had said , what the contents of our english bibles , and commentators generally agre● in , that p●ilip the deacon preacht , did miracles , and baptiz'd , and converted the city of samari● , and that the history describ'd act. 8. belongs to him . now our author is better advis'd , and assures us , that this more probably was philip the apostle . st. luke , 't is true , tells us that upon the persecution against stephen , several of the brethren went through all the regions of iudea and samaria , except the apostles ; 't is says our author , a gross mistake , the apostles are not to be excepted ; but philip the apostle , and not the deacon went about these regions . having thus happily entred himself into the lists , he goes on and tells us , that the first we shall find of deacons ▪ officiating in spiritual matters , is in iustin martyr : a modest man would thing that to be competent antiquity : but it seems to him that though in greece it was then receiv'd ; it was not so in afric● ; for terttullian says that the christians received the sacrament only from the hand of the president or bishop , that is , what i said even now out of ignatius , that neither this , nor any other sacred office was to be done 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , without the knowledg or consent of the bishop ; which thing our author himself hereafter confesses . and sure when the bishop consecrated both elements , and with his own hand delivered the bread immediatly to every communicant , and gave the cup to the deacon to distribute after him : 't will be a great truth to say that the eucharist was only received from the hands of the bishop . but 't is a fatal thing to be haunted by ill luck ; what will become of our authors profound learning , if it should appear that the deacon did distribute the cup in africa ? st. cyprian will , i hope , be taken for a competent witness in the case , who says in his book de lapsis . vbi solennibus adimpletis calicem diaconus offerre praesentibus coepit . when the other solemnities were performed , and the deacon distributed the cup to them who were present . nay if st. cyprian be to be believed , he utterly confounds all our authors pretensions at once , saying that diaconis non d●fuit sacerdotalis vigor ; there was not wanting to the deacons sacerdotal power , ep. 13. allowing them somewhat of priestly jurisdiction : and in the twelfth epistle , giving them power to release from the censures of the church , in articulo mortis , si presbyter repertus no● fuerit , & urgere exitus coeperit , apud diaconum quoque exomologesin facere delicti sui possint , ut manu ejus in poenitentia imposita , veniant ad dominum cum pace . if a priest be not to be fo●nd , and death draw on , they may make their exomologesis or confession before the deacon , that hands being laid on them as penitents , they may go to the lord in peace . our author proceeds , and according to his wont , shews his learning backward ; and quoting an epistle of st. ignatius ad tralli ( trallianos i presume he means ) finds , and often laments that learned men go on in a track , one after another , and some through inadvertency , some through partiality take many passages of ancient authors quite different from their meaning . one would now expect some eminent discovery . the fault in short is this , that our authors good friend vedelius , bishop vsher , doctor vossius , co●ellerius , and as many others as have put forth ignatius , ●ave gone on in a track , and falsly translated these words , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . the deacons , being ministers of jesus christ , are to be honoured , for they are not the ministers of meats and drinks , but of the church , and servants of god ; to run thus , and to concern deacons , when as indeed the words are meant of priests . whosoever first translated this epistle of ignatius , says our author , sure this fancy of deacons ran much in his head , otherwise he could never have found them here , for it is evident the word diaconus , in this place , relates to the presbytery newly before mentioned , &c. well , we hear what you say , but for all this are convinced you are infinitely mistaken : and are sure that doctor isaac vossius , whatever became of other learned men , did not go in a track , nor by inadvertency nor prejudice ( his education , if he could have been seduced , leading him the other way ) but considered the place very particularly , and adhering to the translation which you despise , concludes , miror antiochum qui sermone 124. haec ignatii cit●t , it● illa mutasse , ut id quod de diaconis hic dicitur , presbyteris attribuat , modo apud illum locus sit integer , nec aliqua exciderint verba . i wonder antiochus , who in his 124. sermon quotes these words , should so change them , that what 〈◊〉 here said of deacons , should by him be attributed to priests , if so be the place be entire with him , and some words not left out . well , but our author has a mind that we should see the utmost of his skill : i do the more wonder at the interpreters mistake in this place , because by the following words ignatius here excludes the specifical deacons , saying not the ministers of meat and drink . to see the wonderful difference of mens understandings ; the most learned doctor isaac vossius , from these very words concludes the beforegoing period was meant of deacons ( specific deacons , since they must be called so ) from whence our demonstrator proves they could not be spoke of them . it is , it seems , a scheme of speech which our author never met with , to say of things or persons you are not this or this , but that ; when they are remarkably more that , than this or this . thus god says to samuel of the people , who , complaining of his old age , and evil sons , desired a king : that they had not rejected samuel , but god. all men of common sense know very well the meaning to be , that though they rejected the prophet , that was not to come into account with the rebellion and insolence wherein they rejected the lord himself . though god commanded sacrifices under the law , he expresly says , he will have no sacrifice , and delights not in , nay , abhors burnt offerings ; yet this did not abrogate the divine institution , nor make almighty god contradict himself . so st. paul advises philemon to receive onesimus his servant , not now as a servant , but above a servant , a brother beloved : by which words it is not to be inferred , that he should presently manumit him , but use him with kindness . but vanity and ignorance are most incommodiously quartered together ; our author had a mind to shew his reading , and pick a quarrel with the translator of a father : and then , no doubt , he must be a giant in learning , and list himself with those worthies that have slain their thousands . but such is our authors hard fate that this inconsiderable p●●●od which is here so earnestly controuled , is said unquestionably almost in every page of this holy martyr . so that should he have happened once in his life to be in the right , he had gained nothing to his cause ; and besides , from hence it is morally certain that our author never read a page together in ignatius . in this very shor● epistle within twenty lines he says , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; he that does any thing without the bishop , the presbyter , and deacon , has not a pure conscience . in that to the magnesians , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . i admonish you to do all things in love , the bishop presiding in the place of god , the presbyters in the place of the colledge of the apostles , and the deacons most dearly bebeloved of me , as those who are trusted with the ministry of jesus christ. in that to the philadelphians , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ▪ hearken to the bishop , the p●esbytery , and the deacons . and again in the same epistle he adds , that it is necessary 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to ordain there a deacon to perform the embassie of god. one would think this a competent instance of our authors intolerable insolence , without any regard of truth or ingenuity to dictate to the world , and pretend to correct learned men . but this is not all ; it is manifest he never read this very period , whose translation he pretends to mend : for so ignatius goes on there , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ▪ so in like manner let all reverence the deacon as jesus christ , and also the bishop as the son of the father ; and the presbyters as god's senat , and band of the apostles ; without these the church is not call'd . but we have not done yet . behold a piece of ignorance and impudence more inexcusable than the former ; poor petavi●s is taken to task for calling st. laurence a deacon ; which many hundreds before him had very innocently done ; and generally all that ever heard of his grediron , or his martyrdom , or indeed the occasion of it , are of his mind ; but it is our authors priviledge to be ignorant of what every body else is informed of . now in the present misadventure he attempts a greater mastery , goes beyond , and surpasses himself : for in that very place of st. ambrose which he cites ; the direct contrary of what he goes about to prove is in termini● asserted ▪ for that speech of st. laurence , which he recapitulates , and says , that it plainly shews st. laurence was a priest , not a bare deacon , tells us that he was a deacon . the words are lib. 1. offic. cap. 41. quo progrederis sine filio pater ? quò sacerdos sancte sine diacono tu● properas ? &c. o my father ( speaking to his bishop going to martyrdom ) whither go you without your son ? o holy priest whither ▪ hasten you without your deacon ? had it not been better for our author to have said st. laurence was an arch-deacon to credit the matter ; or a deacon cardinal ; than thus run counter to the words he alledged ? unless a man owed himself a shame , and was in dread he should never make honest payment , and therefore on purpose spoke what he knew most absurd , mere chance could never fall out so unluckily , that he should not in a whole book make one true recital of an author , or matter of fact , as he has done . yet after all this , as if he had come off with mighty credit , he closes his chapter with a quod erat demonstrandum : so i leave , says he , the deacons to their proper office of serving of tables , not finding in scripture any thing more belonging to them . our author having thus taken away , we will expect the next course , where it is to be hoped we shall be better served ; and that at last the banquet will make amends for the very ill fare we have hitherto had . to the chapter of church-government . our author has a dexterity of talking extravagantly of several weighty subjects , and this he calls handling them : which being beyond his strength , he heaves them to as much purpose as if they were timber ; and thinks he has acquitted himself to admiration . having therefore handled the former points ; that is , talkt beyond all aim and measure foolishly ; now he says he comes to the authority of bishops to govern as well as to ordain . and truly if they are to do one , as they are on his principle , to do the other , their authority is likely to signifie but little ; being shared by every the meanest priest. but the out-cry is , that the power of the keys is left to chancellors , lay-men who have no more capacity to sentence or absolve a sinner , then to dissolve the heaven and the earth , and make a new heaven and an earth . and thus the good man runs on like an horse with an empty cart , exceedingly pleased with the ratling of the wheels , and gingling of the bells ; but he never considers that all the proceedings of chancellors in the bishops court are in consequence of the canons of the church which are the decrees of bishops authoritatively met together , which have defined such and such doctrines heretical , such and such actions punishable with suspension , sequestration or deprivation , and the like : now all that the chancellor has to do , is to examine the matter of fact , take the allegations and proofs , and apply the sanction of the law to them . but where that extends to the use of the keys , that is reserved to them who by christs institution are trusted therewith . and if dr. duck did do an ill thing , the fault lies at his door ; and t is well if in this profligate age a single instance can only be pitcht upon . we have , blessed be god , a great happiness in the protection of our municipal laws , none in the world being a firmer bulwark of the princes rights and peoples liberties ; but should every clamorous person be hearkned to , who complains of the exorbitance of a judg , ( when if the matter be truly examined , probably the ground of the dislike , is that he did his duty ) we should soon tear out one anothers thro●ts ; and every mans hand would be against his brother . we know the worst of our present constitution , and desire not the hazards of a change . to the chapter of confirmation . this chapter begins with a liberal confession , that confirmation or some such thing is necessary : but t is a little odd that in a matter which approaches to the being necessary , a loose succedaneum of some such thing , should be sufficient . our author like a true empiric , in all cases strives to bring in aliquid nostri , his preparation of the medicin will render it soveraign : but the old , known , and received forms must by no means be taken . having then made up a narrative of matter of fact , jumbling , as his way is , true and false together , his first objection against confirmation as it now stands is . that it is not possible for a bishop of so large a diocess as some of ours are , some extended three or fourscore miles , many forty or fifty , personally to confirm half the youth in a diocess , if he duly examine each one as is fit and necessary . we see how this is performed in their triennial visitations . having put in a caveat in behalf of the present constitution , and minded my author again of his promise to the lords and commons , that there was not a word in his book against the known laws ; i cannot but reflect , that surely he lives in a country where the bishop is not over-diligent in his duty , else he would never make the task to be so impossible , unless the bishop never comes into his diocess , or never stir any where abroad in it : surely a very little contrivance with the diligence of the ministers would make it possible both for the bishop and youth to meet together without much trouble to either . there is no doubt if the affair be adjourned over to the triennial visitation , 't is not likely to be well done : but as this ought not to be the course ; so thanks be to god it is not . the next inconvenience in the present constitution is the disability of the curat to fit for confirmation ; and the little credit to be given , when he assures the bishop when he presents the children , that they are fully instructed for it : and therefore he concludes it necessary , to appoint some discreet conscientious ministers in the several circuits to examine and licence for the lords table : for he passes it for granted , that confirmation is no sacrament , and if it were , why may not priests , not bishops perform it ? well but suppose these discreet conscientious ministers , that are to supply the place of the parochial ones , should not be better qualified , be more discreet or conscientious then them , as it may very probably happen ; t is plain they cannot have those opportunities either to instruct the youth of each parish , or know they are instructed , as the local minister is furnisht with ; but then farther is it likely that the several parochial ministers will readily admit their neighbour minister , whom they may reasonably think not much wiser or better then themselves to meddle in their cures , or that the people will be contented with it ? will not animosities and quarrels , and contempt of the duty certainly follow ? as to the lawfulness of priests and not bishops performing it , upon the supposal that priests and bishops are the same thing , and that priests may ordain , which is the doctrine taught in one of the preceding chapters , this of priests ●onfirming may ●easonably enough be admitted : but the falseness of that imagination being abundantly evident , the absurdity of this will necessarily follow . and therefore notwithstanding our authors project , bishops may do well to go on in the execution of their duty in this most ancient and useful right , in which from the first planting of the gospel to this moment , they have been in possession . they who of late invaded the power of ordaining priests , having been so modest yet , as not to usurp this part of the episcopal office. as to the expedients proposed about framing additions to the catechism , making paraphrases on the lords prayer and ten commandments , regulating the ministers way of catechising , and enforcing parents and masters to bring their young people to be catechis'd , i shall only say that if every body in the nation , who is as wise as our author , shall be allowe'd to make models for the church , we shall have almost as many schemes of government , as there are persons to be governed . in the mean time we will take old cato's rule , and be well pleased with the state of things as it stands at present . the next p●que is at the bounds of each bishops diocess , and having told a story of rome , constantinople , alexandria , antioch , ierusalem , ephesus , corinth , and philippi , which sound big and look well in the inventory , he informs us that partly by great distances of citys , partly by the favour of former princes , several towns being cast into one diocess they became so large as t is impossible any one bishop should have a sufficient inspection into them ; the bishop knows not the names nor faces of half a quarter of them , much less their behavior ; he may have as well a part of france in his diocess to govern. our author never considers where his argument will light , is it possible to govern three kingdoms , nay are they therefore happy , because entire and under one government ? is there no manner of need why the prince should know the names of the aldermen in his metropolis , much less of the people in his dominions ? and is it so impossible a thing to comprehend all the necessary interests of an episcopal diocess ? the truth is , our author would make every parish-priest a bishop , and then the diocess will be little enough ; and the revenues of the bishops will be needless things , and as he says , the greedy harpyes will readily make use of his zealous intentions : but i pray let us make a parallel to his ecclesiastial policy in the civil state. there are a certain sort of men made iudges in the several circuits of england , which circuits are many of them fifty , six●y , an hundred or more miles in compass , they know not the name or faces of half or a quarter of them ▪ much less of their behavior , they may as well have a part of france in their circuit : were it not therefore better that every lord of the leet should distribute justice in the precincts of his mannor ; that no man should be at the expence of seeing councel , taking out writs , or of going to the shire-town , or vamping upon the hoof with shooes at back to westminster-hall ; but the steward of the court who knows the name and face and concern of every one should dispatch all things , and doubtless this would make a happy world. the parish would quickly find the advantage of this new scheme ; to have their estates , their lives and fortunes in ●he hand of a little attourny , and be all together by the ears , and have none to part them , but him whose interest it is to set them on . i need not set down the moral . thus mad is the ecclesiastical policy of our divinity-common-wealths-man , t is no very good account of time to write an vtopia , a politick romance ; but to play tricks in holy things , and set on foot a christian oceana , is an unpardonable fault . but our author proceeds to consider a second abuse in church government , which is exempt iurisdictions . whatever a man thought of the unexpedience of any thing establisht by law , surely in good manners he should not give it ill language , and call it an abuse , while it stood so authorized and supported . which should be done especially by him who has past a solemn promise of not speaking a word against the known laws of the land. but of all men in the world our author , whose business it is to make all the parishes in england peculiars , and have them straitned to the narrow limits , which admit the knowing every name and face , should not speak against exempt jurisdictions ; for if the whole nation were so cantoned out , and we had ten thousand bishops in england , we had exactly the scheme which he recommends , and at the same time complains of . it seems my author may freely write against what is establisht in church and state , as having obtained an exempt jurisdiction from the power of both : and to say incoheren● things and such as none else would say , contradictory not only of all sober men who have wrote before him , but of himself also , is his peculiar ▪ and so i leave him . to the charitable admonition . this being addrest to nonconformists , i must confess does not properly concern me , and is for the most part so well said , that i heartily wish it had been the whole book : but since our author finds himself oblig'd in charity , to think of those misguided men , i must also upon the same principle , have a concern for him ; and earnestly beg him to revise what he has wrote , and see whether he has laid grounds in it for socinianism , and all kinds of separation : and whether he has done a good office to religion , to supply dissenters , whom he decla●es to be obliged to obey the government , with all the arguments he could think of , to palliate and countenance their disobedience . surely men are not too well principled , that it should be needful to unsettle them ; nor too dutiful , that ther● should be reason to check them in their duty : and in a time when , as my author himself observes , separation , and many following divisions , have caused many to abhor the church , and turn to popery : it is obvious to apprehend that the doing every thing which the maddest separatist requires , and making religion slovenly and despicable , will not probably retain those who are tempted to popery , or recover them who have revolted to it . it will not be enough to say , that the book has every where in it sober and honest truths ; for so has the cracovian catechism , and the alcoran ; nay , there is scarce any conjuring book which does not for the greatest part consist of devout and godly prayers , we are told by our author , that it is above two years since he had these thoughts , in which time he has read and conferr'd all he could to discover if he were in an error ; but , for all he could yet meet wi●h , does not find it so , but hopes all he says is truth , and that it may be useful to the publick , in this present conjuncture of affairs . now this is certainly a most prodigious thing , that a man in two years time should never be once awake , converse with any good book , or man of sense ; or have the least reflexion upon what is either truth or expedience . i never read this book entirely over more than once ; nor have i had much leisure to consider it : and yet i presume any indifferent reader will see what gross misadventures have been detected by me , and probably himself will discover many more : for , in earnest , there are every where such blots that one can hardly avoid the hitting ; such flaws in discourse , that there needs no picking of holes , or looking narrowly to find the incoherence , but the passage lies wide open , and one may fairly drive a cart and horses thorow . upon the whole matter i cannot but conclude , that pride or discontent , or some other very prevalent passion has here interposed : for what else should make a man think himself fit to renverse the established constitution of the church , and give his advice to the parliament , how they should evacuate all their laws ? what should make him almost in every period contradict himself ; pretend to the knowledge of antiquity and religion , rant against universities , disparage the ministers and preaching of the nation : and at the same time discover the grossest ignorance and inconsideration as is imaginable ? and amidst all this acknowledge obligations to submission and conformity , and whatever he has spoke against : and after two years deliberation not to see that which is evident at the first glance , to any one that has but half an eye ? all this , i say , mu●t be the product of some one , or many violent passions . let my author seriously consider where this fundamental mischief lies ; search his own heart , and desire the searcher of hearts to discover it to him . he says , he has fasted and prayed , let him do so again ; but with humility and earnestness ; and the good god be merciful to him . finis . a discourse of god's ways of disposing of kingdoms. part 1 by the bishop of s. asaph, lord almoner to their majesties. lloyd, william, 1627-1717. 1691 approx. 104 kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from 43 1-bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : 2005-10 (eebo-tcp phase 1). a48818 wing l2679 estc r12748 12426493 ocm 12426493 61879 this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons 0 1.0 universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase 1, no. a48818) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set 61879) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, 1641-1700 ; 945:1) a discourse of god's ways of disposing of kingdoms. part 1 by the bishop of s. asaph, lord almoner to their majesties. lloyd, william, 1627-1717. [6], 71, [1] p. printed by h. hills, for thomas jones ..., london : 1691. reproduction of original in huntington library. table of contents: p. [5]-[6] created by converting tcp files to tei p5 using tcp2tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between 1473 and 1700 available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the 25,363 texts created during phase 1 of the project have been released into the public domain as of 1 january 2015. anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. 5% (or 5 pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of 100 instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level 4 of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p5, characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng church and state -great britain. 2003-11 tcp assigned for keying and markup 2003-12 apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images 2005-01 john latta sampled and proofread 2005-01 john latta text and markup reviewed and edited 2005-04 pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a discourse of god's ways of disposing of kingdoms . by the bishop of s. asaph , lord almoner to their majesties . a discourse of god's ways of disposing of kingdoms . part i. by the bishop of s. asaph , lord almoner to their majesties . king charles i. works p. 711. in his letter to his son. with god i would have you begin and end , who is king of kings , the soverain disposer of the kingdoms of the world , who putteth down one and setteth up another . publish'd by authority . london , printed by h. hills , for thomas jones , at the white-horse , without temple-bar . 1691. to the reader : having had the honor to preach before their majesties on the fift day of november last , and afterward to be commanded by them to print my sermon , which contain'd many things concerning the late revolution ; i humbly crav'd leave to put my thoughts into another form ; wherein i might , not only say those things more at large , but also prove what i had said in that sermon ; knowing i could do it by such authorities as would be sufficient to clear me from that charge of singularity or novelty which hath been too liberally thrown upon others that have preach'd or written on that subject . i know i am not better then my brethren that have been thus us'd , and therefore i expect to be treated no better then they have been . but i think i have taken a course to prevent the bringing of any charge against me on that head . it will appear that i have deliver'd no other doctrin then that which has been receiv'd and past for current in the church of england , ever since the reformation . and i hope it will be some service to that excellent church , to shew that what some have reported of her doctrins , hath had no other ground , but the mistakes of some of her sons ; who , tho excellent men , and such as our church may justly glory of upon other accounts , yet i must needs say have judg'd too hastily of this matter ; and seem to be too jealous of themselves , for fear some wordly consideration should strike in with those second thoughts that would make them judge otherwise . we are not to answer for the private opinions of all that are or have been of our communion . but , god be prais'd , we may safely stand by the doctrins of our church , and the most approv'd writers thereof . they are those that i have endeavour'd to set forth in this following discourse . while we adhere to them , it will be for the honor of our church ; that as it hath been always accounted the bulwark of the protestant religion , and prov'd it self to be so most eminently in the last reign ; so it will appear to be the only unshaken strength of this monarchy ; especially by the encouragment it hath now under their majesties government , which i beseech god long to continue , to his glory , and the peace and prosperity of these kingdoms . the contents of chapter i. 1. the occasion of psalm lxxv . pag. 1. 2. the scope of the words , vers . 6 , 7. 1. 3. i. that power is from god. 2. 4. ii. that he gives it judicially . 3. 5. the heads of the following discourse . 4. 6. of the institution of government 5. 7. of the several sorts of it . 6. i. of god's conferring it on persons . 1st . immediately . 8. i. in the patriarchical times . 7. 9. 2. in the jewish theocracy . 9. 10. 3. in their hereditary kingdom . 9. 11. 2dly . mediately by the peoples consent . 10. 12. 1st . on account of merit , 11. thus especially on founders of nations . 11. 13. on first planters . 12. 14. on restorers and deliverers . 12. 15. 2dly . on account of favour . 14. 16. in the first elections of kings . pag. 14. 21. in the hereditary successions from them . 15. 22. in elective kingdoms . 16. 23. in free states . 16. 24. ii. of god's transferring it from one to another . 17. 25. that this is the act of god. 18. 26. by giving one a conquest over the other . 19. 27. that god doth this judicially . 21. 28. i. by way of judgment on king or people . 21. 29. particularly on kings . 23. 29. for neglect of government . 23. 30. for oppressing their people . 24. 31. this is just and necessary . 25. 32. ii. by way of justice , for . 27. 33. 1. war is an appeal to god. 28. 34. 2. it is proper to kings . 29. 35. 3. 't is lawful when they have just cause . 33. 36. great danger makes it necessary . 34. 37. especially when also religion is concern'd . 37. 38. when religion is opprest in another kingdom . 39. 39. example of this in queen elizabeth's time . 42. 40. especially , where it is settl'd by law. 45. 41. 4. such a cause makes a just conquest , 49. 42. and that conquest gives right . 50. 43. doubted when the cause is certainly unjust . 55. 44. no doubt when the cause is certainly just. 58. 45. a doubtful cause is enough for the prince in possession . 59. 46. the people● ought to be satisfi'd with this . 61. 47. but much more when they see a certain just cause . 33. 48. when the cause is for their sake , it is to them not a conquest , but a deliverance . 66. a discourse of god's ways of disposing of kingdoms . psalm lxxv . verses 6 , 7. for promotion cometh neither from the east , nor from the west , nor from the south . but god is the judge ; he putteth down one , and setteth up another . § . 1. this psalm was compos'd by david ( as i take it , ) considering the state of affairs that was immediatly after saul's death : a when ( as it is here , ver . 3. ) the land , and the inhabiters thereof were dissolv'd , and even ready to fall ; but that david bore up the pillars of it . § . 2. then , being in the nearest prospect of the kingdom , he called to remembrance what he had formerly said , what warnings he had given , to those fools and wicked men , that laid about them in saul's time , as if there would be no end of it . b i said to the fools , deal not so foolishly ; and to the wicked lift not up your horn . do not bear your selves so high , as it seems they did on that unhappy king's favor . do not boast your selves of the power you have to do c mischief ; that 's the common use of power , when it comes in the hands of fools and wicked men . § . 3. to teach them better , david shews whence it is that power comes into mens hands ; and upon what terms they are to hold it . these two things the psalmist shews in the words of this text. first , for the true original of power . this in david's time all men took to be from heaven , but from whom there , many knew not . the eastern nations , who were generally given to astrology , took it to come from their stars ; and especially from the sun , which was the chief object of their worship . the psalmist tells them , no. promotion cometh not that way : neither from the planet's rising , nor setting , nor from its exaltation in mid-heaven . that 's the meaning of the words , from the east , nor from the west , nor from the south . from the north of the zodiac , or from 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the hidden part under the horizon , they never thought it to come . and ( as a some think ) that 's the reason why that part of heaven is not mention'd . but the psalmist might have another reason to himself , why he did not think fit to say , it comes not from the north. for there ( as he saith b elsewhere ) on the north-side of jerusalem was mount sion , the city of the great king of heaven and earth . there in david's time was the tabernacle , and afterwards there was the temple , in which the mercy-seat between the cherubims was the place of the symbolical presence of god. it was that a a mountain of the congregation in the sides of the north , where god ordinarily sate to hear the prayers of his people . and where , in case of any oppression , he stood to ( a ) judge among the gods. could david say promotion comes not from thence ? no , he saith the contrary in the following , words ; for god is the judge : plainly shewing , that to him kings owe their authority . but § . 4. secondly , it is to him as judge . he gives it judicially . and so to him they are to account for it . them that use their power well , he rewards for it ; and that ordinarily , with a long and prosperous reign . them that abuse their trust , he as ordinarily deprives ; and gives that power into other hands ; as it follows , he puts down one , and sets up another . this is the plain meaning of the psalmist's words ; which will be of great use in the following discourse . now for the matters contain'd in it . § . 5. first , promotion , or exaltation to power ; and secondly , the transferring of it from one to another , ( as from saul to david in the case before us , ) both these are ascrib'd here to god : and that by him that was best able to judge of these matters . david , as being a prophet inspir'd , best knew the mind of god , and his ways of dealing with mankind . and david , as being call'd to be a king by the immediate designation of god , best knew what belong'd to that dignity . his word therefore is on all accounts a sufficient proof . but that what he says may be the better understood , i shall shew , first in general , and then in sundry particulars , that 't is the prerogative of god , by which he acts , both in the disposing , and also in the transferring of kingdoms . secondly , i shall shew that the work of god in bringing his majesty into this kingdom ; was truly god's making use of the latter branch of his prerogative , in putting down one , and setting up another . lastly , that it ought to be acknowledg'd by us ; not only in an humble submission to their majesties government , but also by paying them all those duties which subjects owe to their prince , according to the word of god , and the laws of this kingdom . § . 6. first , for the original of government . of this the less needs to be said , because it is so plainly declar'd , and so often repeated in scripture . it is declar'd of government in general , that it is the a ordinance of god ; that is , it is a thing of divine institution . it is not only permitted by his providence , but it is appointed by his will , that there should be a government among men. it is the way he hath provided for the good of human society . and therefore whosoever is against it , he is an enemy to human society . but because all mankind cannot be under any one government , no more than they can all be one people , or one nation ; therefore the apostle goes farther , to apply this to the several governments of the several nations and countries . the ( a ) powers that be are of god : that is , the several kingdoms and states , even all that are in the world , all have their authority from god. and whosoever disobeys or resists , the publick order and government of the kingdom or state where he lives , he disobeys or b resists the ordinance of god ; and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , he shall be call'd to account for it . the magistrate may punish him if he will. he hath the sword of god committed to him for that purpose , as well for the punishment of this as of all other enormities . but for this , if the magistrate will not , or cannot , god will surely do it , first or last ; he that resists , shall receive to himself damnation . here is a plain declaration of the will of god , as to the institution of government in general . but now as to the conferring of it on particular persons . § . 8. i this at first was from god , we are sure , because it was from the beginning of mankind . the first men that were born into the world , were all of adam's family . and so were all that came after , till some of them went sorth , as cain did to make families for themselves . till then , they were govern'd by him that was the common father of mankind . noah was the father of all them that liv'd after the flood ; and he was their governor too , till his children were too many to live in one country , or under one government , and then they branch'd themselves into nations , a among whom the earth was divided . when the fathers or heads of some of those nations made conquests upon one another , as nimrod did on the nations about him , who was therefore call'd b a mighty hunter before the lord ; or when they were otherwise incorporated together ; these made the ancient great monarchies , whereof the assyrian and egyptian are famous in ancient history . other of those nations , or rather great families , continu , d in their ancient way of patriarchical government . particularly in that line out of which god chose his peculiar people ; abraham was c a mighty prince in his days : but all his subjects were of his family , out of which proceeded d many nations . from his son isaac , there came e two nations of people ; one of them by esau father of edom , the other by jacob the father of israel ; who for their times also govern'd those families or nations . when jacob and all his family went down into egypt , there ended their patriarchical government . after which , being subjects to the king of that country , they were brought into a long and sore bondage , which a made their lives bitter to them for many generations . § . 9. 2 from this god deliver'd them by the hand of moses . and to shew them how they ought to value this mercy , from thence he entitl'd himself to be b their king , and dated the c beginning of his reign . as such he gave them laws , according to which they were govern'd by his vicegerents . first his servant moses , then joshua , and then all the judges successively . they were all such as he either nam'd to them himself , or gave such signs of his chusing them as were equivalent to a nomination . § . 10. 3 this theocracy , as we call it , continu'd from their coming up out of egypt , till such time as god , at his peoples desire , gave them d a king to judge them like all the nations . how was that ? in most nations we read of at that time , and perhaps in some from the confusion of tongues , it was the peoples part to chuse who should rule over them : and that either upon every vacancy , as in elective kingdoms ; or at the first , once for all , as in those that were hereditary . god was pleas'd so far to grant his peoples request , that they should be an hereditary kingdom : but for the first king of the reigning line , god would have the chusing of him himself . and accordingly , first he chose saul , whose a kingdom should have been hereditary , if he had not hindred it by his disobedience to god. then god made choice of david , a man b after his own heart ; and david having many sons , among them all god c chose solomon to continue the succession in him and his heirs , as he did till the babylonian captivity . this account that i have given , runs through half the age of the world. and so far , i think , it is worth the observing , that there was no other standing government in that nation , which god chose to be his peculiar people , but what was administred by single persons . and those persons title to the government was either patriarchical , or by divine nomination : both which ways of coming into power were so wholly of god , that the people had nothing to do , but to accept the choice of god , and to submit to it . § . 11. ii in other nations indeed , that did not keep up the patriarchical right , there the peoples consent was required , except in the case of conquest before-mention'd . and this consent being merely an human act , it may seem that the authority it gives , is not , as we are here taught , from god only . but to set this matter right , we are to consider by what motives it is , that the people are generally led , to chuse any one to rule over them . all their motives may be reduc'd to these two ; either merit , or favor . if there be any other , they are but compositions of these . § . 12. i the first choise of kings i conceive to have been made on account of merit , the people being led to it by a sense of the benefits they had receiv'd . i judge so from that which having been already shewn i take now for granted , that the earth was peopl'd at first by great families . now when those , by oppression of powerful neighbors , or by civil discord among themselves , came to be in great distress , such as made them see the necessity of being united in greater bodies for their own preservation ; those heroic men , that shew'd them the way of it , and that brought them under government and laws , these were called the founders of the nations . such was moses among the people of israel . when he had brought them out of egypt , they own'd this as a title to government , that he would have had , a even without divine nomination . such was cecrops among the athenians , and romulus among the romans , and other first kings in other nations ; who were so sensible of the benefits that they receiv'd by them , that they not only believ'd them sent from god , but they made them gods themselves , and worship'd them , as the tutelar deities of their nations . § . 13. next to these , and something like them , were the first planters of colonies : such as cadmus was at thebes , aeneas in latium , and the like . in england such were hengist , and the rest that began the seven kingdoms of the saxon heptarchy . from one of these , namely , from cerdic king of the west-saxons , the descent of our royal family is unquestionable . § . 14. but the most like to founders are they whom god raises up to be the restorers and deliverers of a people , when they are either brought low by tyranny and oppression , or when they are torn in pieces by factions among themselves . thus when the jews were oppress'd by antiochus epiphanes , who had right indeed to a tribute from that people , but not content with that , would usurp an absolute dominion over them ; mattathias and his sons stood up for their religion and liberty ; and by asserting both , they so won the people to themselves , that with their consent a the government was establisht in that family . and thus when the roman state , being torn by a long civil war had even bled it self to death , ( it had certainly expir'd , if it had been left to it self , ) augustus came in , and not only bound up the wounds , but put , as it were , a new soul into the body ; he made it not only live , but flourish , by his great care and wisdom , and industry ; which so oblig'd the people , that they even forc'd him to accept of the empire . these were such benefits to mankind , as whosoever was enabl'd to do , it was as if god had put a glory about his head ; it so markt him out to the people , that they could not go beside him in their choise ; they took him as one already chosen of god. § . 15. ii where kings have been chosen on account of less benefits , there have been grains of favor thrown in to make up weight . favor is a motive , ( as i have shewn , ) which works as well singly , as when it is join'd with any other consideration . for it is grounded , not so much upon real worth , as upon the opinion they have conceiv'd of any person . it is opinion that governs the unthinking sort of men , which are far the greatest part of the body of a nation . and when all these go together , they are like the atoms of air , which though taken apart they are too light to be felt , yet being gather'd into a wind , they are too strong to be withstood . but he that brings the winds out of his treasures , he also governs these , and turns them which way he pleases . it is the same great god , that a rules the roaring waves of the sea , and the b multitude of the people . § . 16. for examples of this in the electing of kings , we are not to look for them in scripture , because all the kings that god set over his people were , as i have shewn , by divine nomination . but since there were other ways by which kings were made in other nations ; and since we are sure the psalmist's words are as true of these , as of any that we read of in scripture ; therefore i conclude , that in these also promotion came from god , by those ways a which his providence us'd in setting up the first kings in other nations . s. 21. this doctrin is as true of the following kings that came in by hereditary succession , where that way was taken in the constitution of any kingdom . these kings are indeed so much more the creatures of god , as they owe less to men than any others ; except only those that came in by patriarchical right , or by divine nomination . there was the act of man in that general consent by which their ancestors came first into the government . and by this consent the government being made hereditary , there was no need of any other human act for the continuance of it in their family . there is nothing more sacred among men than a right of inheritance . but for the derivation of that right to their persons , they owe it only to god : a for it comes to them by their birth , and they owe their birth only to god. s. 22. in those kingdoms wherein the succession is continu'd by a new election upon every vacancy , or wherein a new election is made upon the extinguishing of the royal family , the person on whom the election falls in either case , ows his promotion to god , from whom it comes the same way to him , as it came to his first predecessor in that kingdom . s. 23. i do not speak all this while of free states or commonwealths , because i do not believe there was any such government known in the world in david's time . for as we read of no such in scripture , so it is agreed among the a most learned heathen writers , that the first government every where was by kings . but wheresoever , upon the cession of kings , or the ceasing of the royal family , or the like , there has followed a change of the government , from a monarchy to a free state or commonwealth ; there also the sovereign power was of god ; and they that were invested with it had their promotion from him , by that act of his providence by which the change was made , namely , by the consent of the people . and the same way the providence of god brings in others to succeed them in their power from time to time . it has been prov'd in all sorts of government , that as the sovereign power in every country or nation is of god , so they that are invested with it , whether one or many , are in the place of god , and have their promotion from him : which was the first part of the doctrin of this text. s. 24. the 2d . part is , that the transferring of this power from one to another , is the act of god. and this he does proceeding judicially , as being judge , saith our psalmist . here are two things to be consider'd . first , that it is god that does this ; and secondly , that he does it judicially . s. 25. for the first of these , that the transferring of power from one to another is the act god , this adds much to that which went before in the text. it shews that god has such an interest in the disposing of power , as none can pretend to but himself . men have their part in setting up what they cannot put down again . it is a woman's consent makes a man be her husband , the fellows of a colledge chuse one to be their head , a corporation chuse one to be their mayor : all these do only chuse the person , they do not give him the authority . it is the law that gives that , and that law so binds their hands that they cannot undo what they have done . no more can a nation ( a ) undo its own act , in chusing men into sovereign power . i do not say but they may chuse men into government , expresly with that condition , that they shall be accountable to the people ; and then the government remains in the body of the nation , it is that which we properly call a commonwealth . but for sovereign princes and kings , even where they are chosen by the nation ; and much more in hereditary kingdoms ; as they have their authority from god , so they are only a accountable to him . for he is the only potentate , king of kings , and lord of lords . he alone both makes kings by his sovereign power , and by the same he can unmake them when he pleases . nay more than so , he puts down one , and sets up another . both the words imply something of an high place , and here they are used of civil government or dominion . of this it is said , that god so deprives one of it , as that he advances another in his stead . s. 26. this can be understood of nothing else but the conquest of one prince over another . for what one resigns by a voluntary act , he is said to lay down , or to give it up to another . but putting down is the act of a superior , by which one 's place is taken from him against his will. now god being the superior that does this by the act of his providence , it must be such an act as gives the power from one against his will , to another whom god is pleased to set up in his stead . thus in giving one prince a conquest over another , he thereby puts one in possession of the other's dominions , he makes the other's subjects become his subjects , or his slaves , accordingly as they come in upon conditions , or at the will of the conqueror . in short , he giveth him the whole right and power of the other prince . but how can this be ? for , if the other had a right to his kingdom , it cannot be taken from him without injury : and that cannot ordinarily be without a war , and all the evils contained in it ; which are so much inhumanity and impiety together , that whoseever has a true notion of god , cannot think he would approve of things so contrary to his justice and goodness ; much less that he would be the author of them , as he must be according to this doctrin . s. 27. thus some may object . but in answer to this , consider how we judge of the actions of kings , when they take away the lives and estates of offenders . to do the same things would be murder and robbery in private men. but we know they are acts of judgment in them that have the power of the sword ; and they would not be faithful to their trust if they did not do them . in this text we are taught to think so of god , that when he puts down one , and sets up another , he doth it as a judge , even a judge among gods. he deals with them , as they ought to do with their subjects . think of that , and you will not stick at this objection . as a judge , he administreth judgment and justice both which are said to be the habitation of his throne . particularly , when he decrees a conquest of any king or kingdom ; it is either as a judgment on them for offences against himself , or it is by way of justice to others whom they have injured . and both these ways he does what is best , for the glory of god , and the good of mankind . s. 28. first by way of judgment , or punishment for the sins of a prince , or people , or both ; god ordinarily suffers a rebellion to arise within the kingdom , or a foreign power to break in upon it . and though these rebels , or this foreign power , may be such as have receiv'd no provocation , nor mind nothing else but dominion and prey : yet god makes use of them in this case , as he doth of an inundation at other times ; he lets them loose , to over-run , and waste , and spoil the country ; to overthrow the government , and to make themselves lords of it ; and therein to execute god's judgment on that wicked prince or nation . this was saul's case , on which a this psalm seems to have been made . he had driven out david , the terror of the philistines ; and put the priests to death for relieving him : for which injustice and cruelty , together with his other sins , god brought in the philistines upon him , and made him feel the want of those brave men that he had driven away ; for in the day of battel he had none to stand by him , and so he lost both his kingdom and his life . s. 29. so it commonly happens to those kings that , living in a setled a kingdom , will not govern according to the laws thereof . it is a breach of faith , not only to their people , but to b god also , where they are sworn to the observing of laws c and though they are not therefore to be deposed by the people , yet they cannot escape the vengeance of god , who ordinarily punishes them with the natural effects of their sin. s. 30. thus in the case of not execution of laws , especially those that are a check upon irreligion and immorality , the very neglect of the due administration of justice , though it seems to be nothing at present , yet in time it will destroy the government . it bringeth the people into a contempt of authority , and they are not much to be blamed for it , for what are they the better for such a government ? it lets them loose to all manner of sins , many of which are destructive to society , and all expose them to the wrath of god. both these ways they are disposed for rebellion at home ; and so enfeebled withal , that they cannot withstand a foreign enemy . in this corrupt and weak estate of a government , it is almost impossible that there should not be an alteration . s. 31. on the other hand , if a prince will have no law but his will , if he tramples and oppresseth his people , their patience will not hold out always , they will at one time or other shew themselves to be but men. at least they will have no heart to fight for their oppressor . so that if a foreign enemy breaks in upon him , he is gone without remedy , unless god interpose . but how can that be , when god is judge himself ? should the judge hinder the doing of justice ? it is god's work that foreigner comes to do , howbeit he a meaneth not so . he means nothing perhaps , but the satisfying of his own lust. but though he knoweth it not , he is sent in god's message : for which all things being prepared by natural causes , and god not hindering his own work , but rather hastening it , no wonder that it succeeds , and that oftentimes very easily . s. 32. if there seems in all this to be any hard measure put upon kings , it ought to be consider'd how much harder it would be upon the people , if it were otherwise . when it happens ( as it doth sometimes , and that especially for the sins of a nation , ) that they come to be under weak or wicked kings ; even these they must not resist , god hath b taught them otherwise . what then ? must they be left to the wills of these tyrants ? or of them that govern weak kings , which is commonly worse ? must they endure all the load of oppression that these will lay upon them ? that is , for a few mens pleasure must a nation be made miserable ? this is far from god's design in the institution of government . he makes kings his ministers a for the good of their people . if any will take that office upon them , they must behave themselves accordingly . otherwise , if they take it as given them only for themselves , it is such a breach of trust , that god cannot but punish them for it . but how should he do this , so as that the punishment may have its effect , in warning others not to transgress in like manner ? he cannot do this better , than by making men his instruments in it . and therefore it is that god , though he has infinite ways , yet commonly chuses to employ men in this service . he either finds them at home , that are not afraid b of the power as they ought to be : or he brings them in from foreign countries , whistling for the fly out of egypt , or the bee out of the land of c assyria ; in plain words , stirring up a pharaoh or a nebuchadnezzar against them . god may employ such if he will , though none is too good for this work , to execute his righteous judgments . and when god doth his work by their hands , whatsoever the instruments may be , the cause being so just , and so evident as we have supposed ; all men that see it will say , doubtless a there is a god that judges on the earth b s. 33. 2 in the way of justice , god acts as a judge between two soveraign powers , when they bring their causes before him ; that is , when they make war upon one another . and when he seeth his time , that is , when he finds the cause ripe for judgment , if it proceeds so far , then he gives sentence for him that is injur'd , against him that hath done the injury . the effect of this sentence is a just conquest ; and that is the other way in which god , proceeding judicially , puts down one , and sets up another . that this may be the better understood , there are four things to be consider'd particularly . first , that war is an appeal to the justice of god. secondly , that none can be parties to this , but they that are in sovereign power . thirdly , that to make it a just war , there must be a just and sufficient cause . fourthly , that conquest in such a war is a decisive judgment of god , and gives one a right to the dominions that he has conquer'd from the other . s. 34. 1 that war is an appeal to god , this appears in the nature of the thing . for it is the act of two parties that differ about their right . and they put it upon such an issue as none but god can give . for both agree in effect , that the right shall be adjudg'd to him that has the victory . and it is god alone that is the giver of a victory . therefore the judgment of god has been solemnly appeal'd to by nations when they were engaging in war. we see a notable instance of this in the history of jephtha . when his country was invaded by the ammonites , he stood up to defend it , with this express declaration to their king : i have not sinned against thee ; b but thou dost me wrong to war against me , the lord the judge , be judge this day between the children of israel and the children of ammon . the like declarations are frequent in the ancient roman history . s. 35. 2 the parties to this appeal , are properly such as have no superior but god. for them that have an earthly superior , their appeal lies to him as god's minister a attending continually on this very thing . so that subjects know whither to go on all occasions , whether for the asserting of their rights , or reparation of injuries . their proper recourse is to the king as supreme , or to those b that are commissioned by him : and these are to judge their cause according to the law of the land , which is the common standard of justice among private men. it has been the manner indeed , ( and perhaps is so still in some nations , ) that where princes find a cause too hard for them to decide , they give the parties leave to end it in a duel between themselves . but this , being an appeal to god , is most strictly forbidden to subjects in all well-order'd kingdoms . and this very usage shews that they have no right to it otherwise , but only by their princes permission . for sovereign princes , their rights and their injuries are inseparably join'd with those of their kingdoms and nations . and therefore they cannot pass by injuries , as private men may , for peace sake : they must insist on those rights with which god has entrusted them for others more than themselves : it is not only their interest , but their duty so to do . but all princes being equally concern'd in this matter , what if a question should arise between any two of them ? or what if one should invade the unquestionable rights of the other ? there is no ending the difference between them in the way of private men : for they have no earthly superior to flie to : they have nothing to do with one another's laws : there is no adjusting of their damages and costs . private justice hath scales to weigh out these things , a but publick justice has none . therefore princes must have some other way to come by their rights , or else they are in much worse case than private men. but what way should that be , by which princes can be oblig'd against their wills to do right to one another ? it must be by such a law as they all agree to , and by such a judge as is their common superior . such a law is that which we call the law of nations ; b being made up of such customs as are observ'd among princes , as our common law is made up of those that are observ'd in this kingdom . and for that common superior , it is god alone , who styles himself the king of kings and lord of lords . but as by the law of nations , the way that princes have for the ending of those differences among themselves which cannot be ended otherwise , is c by war. so this ( as hath been already shewn ) is an appeal to god ; it is the way that princes have to sue one another in his court. and he has therefore given them the power of the d sword ; that they may use it , not only in judging their own people , but in going to law with other princes . this confirms that which has been said already , that subjects have no right to make war , without the leave of their princes . for as god has given princes the power of the sword , so he forbids it to subjects , under a great penalty , they that take the sword shall perish with the sword. and if he has not admitted them to be parties in his court , then it is certain that they cannot sue there ; or if they do , they can acquire no right by it . there is an original nullity in all their proceedings . as none have right of making war but they that are in sovereign power , so neither is it given to them that they may make what use of it they please : particularly , they must not make war for the satisfying of their lusts , ambition , covetousness , vain-glory , or the like . he that troubles an earthly court of justice upon any litigious or trifling account , ought to be condemned in good costs . but if it appear he comes thither to defraud or to oppress , and that with a colour of justice , he must look for greater severity . how much more ought princes to dread the just judgment of god , if they presume to appeal to him for no cause , or for such as he hates and abhors ? nay the righteous god will not hold him guiltless that hath justice in his cause , and yet in his heart hath no such thing . lawful things must be done lawfully . this princes must look to , as they will answer it to god. 35. but as far as man can judge , it is a lawful war that is made for a just and sufficient cause , which is the third thing we are to consider . to make a cause just , in strictness of law , a very small matter may suffice . for no man hath right to do another the smallest injury , any more than he hath to do him the greatest . and princes e have no other way than by war to right themselves for the least injury . but if they are so tame to pass by the smallest injuries , it will tempt ill-minded men to go on , and to do greater . these and many other things may be said , to make it seem reasonable that princes should insist upon the rigor of justice . but after all this , we must remember we are christians ; and christ hath given us other measures of justice , according to which even princes ought to govern themselves . he hath taught us to soften the rigor of justice , with a temperament of goodness and equity : and therefore not to run to extremes , for the righting of any small , any tolerable injury . § 36. especially war , that is such an extreme as a wise and good prince would not run into , if he could with a good conscience live out of it . but that he cannot do without the leave of other princes , that do not consider it with so great an aversation . they may make it necessary for him to defend his just rights , which he cannot forego without wronging his conscience . they may force him to it , if they will , with insupportable injuries . they may bring things to that pass , that the dangers of peace may be worse than the mischiefs of war are like to be . if it once come to that , that there is more danger in sitting still , than there is like to be in the hazards of war , then it is time for them to draw the sword , to whom it is given . and to do it first , if they can , to f prevent the danger of doing it too late afterwards . they may do it se defendendo , as well against great and imminent g danger , as against open actual invasion . they may do it in h defence of another king's subjects , if they see themselves in extreme danger of suffering an intolerable injury by his oppression of his own people . and in these cases if one lawfully may , then it is certain he ought to do it . there needs no scripture for this , it is the plain natural law of self-preservation . they are so much the more oblig'd to this , when it is evident , that the threatning mischief is like to fall upon others , as well as themselves ; and them such as they are bound in honour and conscience to protect and support . when by sitting still they should certainly expose , not only themselves to be ruin'd , but also their friends and allies to perish with them ; in that case saevitia est voluisse mori , it is a sort of bloody peaceableness , it is cruelty to mankind to go to that degree of suffering injuries . § 37. but especially , when the cause of god is concern'd , to whom we owe all things , and ought to venture all for his sake . surely 't is his cause , when it touches religion ; which is all that is dear to him in this world. and tho' religion it self teaches us , if it be possible , as much as in us lyes to live peaceably with all men ; yet as 't is there suppos'd there may be cause to break the peace ; so it adds infinitely to that cause when it comes to concern our religion . i do not say , that religion is to be propagated with the sword. no , nor that i princes may force it on their own subjects ; much less , upon other princes or their kingdoms . these are things we justly abhor among those inhumane k doctrins and practices by which popery has distinguisht it self from all other religions . we have the more cause to abhor it , for the sake of a prince that is the very scandal of popery ; that hath not only exceeded all heathen cruelty , in the persecuting of his own protestant subjects , but even forc'd a neighbour prince to give him game in his dominions . his butchering the poor vaudois was barbarity beyond all example . we have reason to believe , he would have hunted here next : his dogs had been upon us ' ere this time , if god had not wonderfully preserved us . god preserve us still from kings that have that way of propagating religion . § 38. yet it may be a question , whether such tyrannies being used on the account of religion , give a just cause of war to other princes of the same religion . i speak now of persecution in such countries where their religion is not established by law. it is certainly true which the apostle says , we are all members of one and the same body ; and it is the duty of members to have the same care of one another ; and whether one member suffer , all the members suffer with it ; or one member be honoured , all the members rejoyce with it . it is true that christian princes especially , as they have the charge of that part of christ's body that is in their own dominions , so they ought to extend their care and compassion to their fellow-members elsewhere . but whether they ought to concern themselves for them so far as to make war on their account against their kings by whom they are persecuted , nay whether they may lawfully do this , is a doubt that may deserve some farther consideration . the christian emperors seem to have made no doubt of this . for they made war , sometimes for no other cause but that of religion , against such kings as persecuted the christians in their own dominions : sometimes , when they had other causes of war , they preferr'd this before all the rest ; which certainly they would not have done , if it had not weighed much in their opinion of them of the roman communion there hath been enough already said to shew their opinion of this cause . they that are for propagating religion by the sword , cannot but think it a just cause of war against any prince , that he persecutes those of their religion . we have a notable instance of this in cardinal pool , who was one of the moderatest papists of his age , and yet writ a book , wherein he prest it most earnestly upon the emperor charles v. as his duty , to give over his war with the turk , and to turn his arms against king henry viii . for oppressing the catholicks in his dominions . pope pius v. whom they have lately made a saint , was as earnest with the emperor maximilian , and with the kings of spain , france , and portugal . he would have them all make war against queen elizabeth , for persecuting his catholicks ; though she never touch'd one of them , till that pope had forc'd her to it , by stirring them up to rebellion against her with his famous bull of deprivation . § 39. for the opinion of protestants in this matter , we have it sufficiently declared in the reign of that excellent queen ; who made war first or last against a all the popish princes in her neighborhood , for persecuting the protestants in their kingdoms . and herein , she was not only justified by the pens of our greatest b lawyers and c divines , but she had also the approbation and assistance of d our parliaments and convocations . it appears she was the rather inclin'd to do this , by a jealousy of state , for which there was an evident cause in those popish doctrins before-mentioned . for she knew that those kings accounted her and her people to be hereticks , as well as they did their own subjects , whom they used so very ill , for no other cause but because they were of her religion . and therefore she had reason to fear , that when they had done their work in the destroying of that religion at home in their own kingdoms , the same blind zeal , acted by the same principles , would bring them hither at last for the finishing of their work , or as some have worded it since , for the rooting out of the northern heresie . this was such a danger that if she had suffer'd it to grow upon her , it had been a betraying of her trust , which she could not have answer'd to god. and yet , there being no way to prevent it but by making war upon them in their own kingdoms , this ought to be accounted a defensive war , and that made upon very just cause , as hath been a already shewn . we have reason to hope that all popish princes are not under the power of those principles . but yet , when any of them persecutes his subjects that are of another religion , beyond the standing laws of his kingdom , they cannot expect that other princes , which are of that suffering religion , can be so confident of this , as to stand idle and look on , and not rather when they see the danger comes towards them , to defend themselves from it , if they can , by beginning a war in that prince's dominions . § 40. there is yet a greater cause for this , when the suffering religion is that which is establisht by the laws of that kingdom ; and yet the king that is sworn to those laws , and therefore bound to support that religion , is manifestly practising against it , and endeavours to supplant and oppress and extinguish it . what should other princes or states that profess the same religion do in this case ? they see that such a king is set upon the destroying of their religion . he hath declar'd a hostile mind towards the professors of it , in judging them not capable of enjoying their temporal rights . if he deals thus with his own people , what are forreigners to expect at his hands ? can they think themselves secure because they are at peace with him ? they cannot , unless treaties are more sacred then laws . or can they rely upon his oath ? but they see he hath broken it . and therefore they have reason to judge , that either he makes no conscience of an oath , or he thinks faith is not to be kept with hereticks , or he hath a superior that can dispense with him , or that will absolve him from the guilt of perjury in such cases where religion is concern'd . in short , they are sure of his will to destroy them , and cannot be sure of his oath to the contrary . wherein then can they be safe ? but in his want of power to do them hurt ? but he will not want power , if they let him go on , for he is getting it as fast as he can . he is now strengthning himself by those ways that he takes to be absolute lord of his own people : and he is now weakning them , by oppressing all those among his people whom he knows to be their friends and well-wishers . he doth both these things together : he daily lessens their party , and makes them as many more enemies , as he gains men over to his religion . and if that be such a religion as pretends to a right of destroying men of other religions ; knowing this , they know what they are to expect . when this pretended right is armed with power , it will certainly fall upon them . so that they must begin before he is ready for them , or else it will be too late to do any thing for their own preservation . but as it is necessary for them to do this for themselves , so they ought to do it much the rather for the sakes of their oppressed brethren : that , by a timely asserting of their own right , they may also deliver them from the evils they suffer at present , and save them from that destruction which is coming upon them . as it was just and necessary on those former accounts , so this makes it a pious cause , and therefore the more worthy of a true christian prince . it has been judg'd so by them whose names we have in great veneration . we have the examples of our own princes here in england in the best of times since the reformation : these the reader may find collected to his hand , in an excellent book that hath been lately published . but this may as well be shewn in the examples of them whom our princes chose to follow as their patterns ; namely , of the christians in primitive times , and especially at the time of the first nicene council . in these times we find that constantine and licinius , having shar'd the roman empire between them , had pass'd a decree together at milan , for christianity to be the establish'd religion : and when afterward licinius , in his part of the empire , would have oppress'd it contrary to law ; for that cause constantine the great made war upon him ; and in prosecution of that war , thrust him out of his empire : for which he was so far from being blamed by any christian in those times , even by those that had been licinius's subjects , as most of those bishops were that sate in the nicene council , that they all gave him the highest praises and encomiums , and blessed god that had sent them that happy deliverance by his means . eusebius was licinius's subject , and he afterwards writ the life of constantine the great , in which they that please may read whole chapters to this purpose . § . 41. as that is a just war which is made upon just and sufficient cause , so the effect of such a war being a conquest , is just , which is the fourth thing we are to consider . conquest being the way by which a kingdom or dominion is taken from a sovereign prince a against his will , and by which another prince gets it into his possession ; as often as this happens , there arises a question between the two princes , whether of them hath a right to that kingdom or dominion . for the deciding of this question , it must be by such a law as is common to both the parties , whose rights are to be judg'd by it . that cannot be the law of the kingdom ; for though the prince that is disseiz'd was obliged by that law while he was in possession , yet now it seems he is not ; and it never was a law to the prince that is now in his place . it must therefore be a superior law , such as is common to all sovereign princes in their affairs with one another , and that ( as hath been b already shewn ) is ordinarily the law of nations . i say ordinarily , because there is yet a superior law , namely , the law of god ; whether written in our hearts , which we commonly call the law of nature ; or whether an express revelation from god , such as was sometimes given to men in ancient times ; either of these may derogate from the law of nations : for this , being made up of customs observ'd by princes and states among themselves , is always subject to the will of him that is lord of lords and king of kings . but whether , or how far , this may alter the case , will be considered afterwards ; at present we are only to consider what judgment can be made of it , according to the law of nations . § . 42. by this it seems to be plain , that the right should go along with the compleat possession : so as that wheresoever this is once settled , whether by length of time , or even sooner by a general consent of the people , there it ought to be presum'd there is a right , at least there ought to be no farther dispute of it . there seems to be the same reason for this , that there is for the law of nations it self ; for if that law was ordain'd for the peace of mankind , this quieting of possession must be a part of it , for there can be no end of wars otherwise . accordingly we see , in a dispute between gods ancient people the jews , and the heathen nations about them , when they differ'd about a title to land , it was agreed , that whatsoever conquest they had made on either side , they should hold it as being given them by their god. this appears by jephtha's speech to the king of ammon that had chemosh for his god ; wilt not thou possess that which chemosh thy god giveth thee to possess ? so whomsoever the lord our god shall drive out from before us , them will we possess . that 's a plain evidence , so far as it goes . but that is only for part of a country . but we have as great proof , that god gives even kingdoms in this manner , dan. ii. 21. there daniel having receiv'd a full account from god , of a vision which king nebuchadnezzar had seen , and forgot ; when he saw what it was , that it contain'd the fates of empires that were to grow up successively in the world ; he adores the majesty of god , with an humble confession of his prerogative , in these words , it is he that changes the times and the seasons : it is he that removes kings , and sets up kings . both these ways of expression signifie one and the same thing . for the chaldeans reckon'd the times and the seasons by the years of their kings reigns , as we do by the years of our kings reigns at this day . and therefore according to the change of their kings , there was also a change of the times and the seasons . they were the changes of four great empires , which god here considered , not as being the greatest in the world , but as being those to which his people were to be subject . they were subject successively to those four great empires , of the babylonians , the persians , the greeks , and the romans . those four are understood in this vision , by josephus , and by all the jews that have written , and by all the primitive christians . but these words , being so understood , afford us a plain instance of this doctrine . they shew that it is by way of conquest that god puts down one , and sets up another . for so the babylonian empire was put down by cyrus , who set up the persian in its stead . the persian empire was put down in their last king darius , and alexander set up the macedon in its stead , the macedon kingdom was put down in their last king perseus , and the roman was set up in its stead . all these kingdoms were changed by conquests that they made one upon another . and so it was by those conquests , that god removed kings , and set up kings . which , though we see not yet , that it was any more than by the permissive providence of god ; yet that was enough to make the people of god become subjects to those kings that came in by no other title . i do not say but they would have opposed the making of one of those conquests , namely , that of alexander the great , because king darius was then living . but when they saw they could not oppose , the conquest being already made , then just or unjust , they submitted to it ; and having submitted , they were subject without any more controversie . therefore also just and religious kings have reckoned their a conquests 〈◊〉 the great things that god wrought in 〈◊〉 means ; and accounted them as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 subjects whom they had gain'd by 〈◊〉 b sword , as them that were born in th●●● dominions . therefore also god hath commanded his people to give obedience to the kings that came in by conquest , without any other title . nay to such as were capable of no other , for they were a forbidden to set a stranger over them , which was not their brother . and yet they were subjects to strangers , such as cushan , eglon , and jabin , &c. and in zedekia's time god b commanded them upon pain of death to become the subjects of nebuchadnezzar , who had made a full conquest over them , and held their lawful king jeconia then in captivity . this is plainly the doctrine of that c convocation which sate in the beginning of king james i. his time ; and therefore it cannot but be very unjust to charge any man with singularity or novelty , that goes in the steps of so many and so great authors . § . 43. yet it cannot be denied that many others , and those also men of great learning and judgment , have not gone on so smooth with this doctrine ; they think it gives too much to the success of a war , without due regard to the cause on which it was made . but it is the cause that makes a war either just or unjust : and though the events of both these may be the same , for either of them may end in a conquest , by which god puts down one , and sets up another ; yet whether this be justly obtained , or unjustly , it makes a great difference . for whereas the latter happens through the judgment of god , for the punishing of a sinful prince or nation , it doth not appear that he that is the instrument of this , acquires any right by it ; more that those pirates or robbers , who are instrumental likewise , in the punishing of inferior transgressors . and if god gives no right to him whom he sets up , then it remains still in him whom he has put down : so that he is rightful king still ; though he is out of possession , and the other is but an usurper that is in possession . in this case , if the usurper has no pretence of right , no prescription of time , no consent of the people , but only an unjust possession ; how a subject ought to behave himself towards him , even this is a difficult a question , in a most learned man's judgment : who yet b judges , that even here , it may be not only lawful , but a duty , to obey him that is in possession ; when the legal king is reduced to that pass , that he can no more do the office of a king to his people . for ( saith he ) the kingdom cannot be without government , and if the usurper preserves the kingdom , a lover of his country ought not ( as things are ) to give any farther cause of trouble by his unprofitable contumacy . but then put case the usurper hath sworn the people to him , and doth the office of a king , which ( it seems ) in his judgment doth not take away the duty that is owing to that former king ; how one can pay his duty to both the expel'd legal king , and to such an usurper . this our author says is a most difficult scruple ; and so it seems , both by his , and our most learned casuist's handling the question , where they shew how far one ought , and how far one ought not , to comply with such an usurpation . but these difficulties are only in case the possession is obtained by a war that was certainly unjust ; for if the cause of the war was but doubtful , and a conquest follows upon it , there is no place for these difficulties : much less where the cause of war was certainly just , for if a conquest follows upon this , it gives a right , and then there is no usurpation . § . 44. we judge of doubtful things by those that are certain , and therefore to speak of these first : being certain that the cause of war is just , we are as certain of the effect of it . so that if it be suffer'd to run on to a conquest , this also is just ; and we ought to look upon it as the execution of a sentence of god , by which , acting as a judge in the way of justice , he puts down one , and sets up another . and this being follow'd by the a peoples attorning their allegiance , the right is as fully b settled in him that comes in in this manner , as if he came in by the ordinary way of succession . § . 45. the right of a conquest being so clear when the justice of the war is certain , there is the less to be said of the case when there is a doubtful cause of war. if the effect of such a war be a conquest , it is evident that the right of this conquest ought to be judged of very favourably ; for he that hath conquered is now in possession . and therefore according to that common saying , which is most true in this case , he hath eleven points of the law. but beside , if ( as it commonly happens ) one of the two must be obey'd ; either he that is driven out , or he that comes in his stead ; the matter being so doubtful between them ; then , as it seems most reasonable that obedience should be paid to the latter , as having all the advantage of law on his side , so it is plainly necessary for the peace and tranquility of the nation , which cannot well be settled otherwise . thus it was judged by our great a casuist , in a question of hereditary right between two or more competitors ; that as long as they are yet in dispute with one another , it is the duty of one that loves his country , to obey him that is in possession of the kingdom , as his lawful prince . § . 46. upon this ground it has been a commonly judg'd by the law of nations , that the right goes along with the possession . of this we see examples in every revolution that happens in this or any other kingdom . when a king is driven out with any colour of right , the neighbouring princes and states make no great difficulty of applying themselves to him that comes in his stead ; wherein though perhaps they too much follow their own interest , yet it cannot be said that what they do is against the law of nations . but what should subjects do in this case ? of this we have an example in the people of god , when they pass'd successively under the yoak of those four great monarchs that were b formerly mention'd . it is likely that each of those kings that got the power over them , first declar'd the cause of the war that he made upon their former lords . in that case , though they could not judge of the cause , whether it was just of unjust , yet no doubt they did well in adhering to him that was in present possession . thus we see they did to darius , till such time as they found themselves in the power of the enemy : but then , the same reason being turn'd on his side , they thought it necessary to preserve themselves and their country , by yielding to him , who had a just cause of war for ought they knew , and so far as they could judge by the success , it had gods approbation . to a people that are in such a case , it is no small comfort , that whatsoever doubt they may have of the cause of the war , yet there is no doubt at all concerning their duty . there is nothing more certain than this , that they ought to preserve themselves , if they can do it lawfully . but it is lawful for them to forbear fighting , when they are unsatisfied of the cause : and if their own prince is not able to protect them , it is lawful for them to take protection elsewhere . therefore , in case of invasion for a cause which is just for ought they know , it is lawful for them to live quietly under the invader : nay it is not only lawful , but their duty ( as hath been a already shewn , ) to acquiesce in his government , when he comes to be in possession . § . 47. but when they are certain that a war is made upon their prince for just cause ; that is , when they plainly see he hath drawn it upon himself , by making it b not only lawful , but necessary for another prince to invade him for his own preservation ; what are the people to do in this case ? no doubt they ought first to have a care of their souls , and not to endanger them by being partakers of other men's sins . they cannot but see , that , by engaging in the war , they abet their own prince in his injustice ; though not in his doing the injury , yet in continuing what is done , and in his not giving reparation . and therefore they are subject to the same punishment with him . nay their condition is worse then his : for he may shift for himself , and leave them and all they have to be a prey to the enemy : who by right of war may do with them and theirs what he pleases . it is therefore certainly their wisest course to keep themselves free from all offence , both towards god and towards man : that having had no part in the cause of the war , they may not be involv'd in the ill consequences of it . and this they have reason to expect from a generous enemy , that he will not use the right a of war against them that desire to live peaceably . much more , if he hath declar'd he would not hurt them that should not resist him , they have reason to trust a just prince upon his declaration . and if he went so far as to declare , that upon their submission they should enjoy the benefit of their own laws ; then , although it should come to a conquest , they may reasonably expect to be in no worse condition under the stranger , then they were under their own prince : they have his faith engaged to them for this . but if the stranger declares he makes war in defence of another king's subjects , as ( we have b shewn , ) he may lawfully do , when he finds himself in danger of suffering by that king's oppression of his own people ; in this case , they are first to consider , whether it is a meer pretence , or whether there be a reall ground for his declaration . if they find there is a just and sufficient ground for it , they see in effect , that it is through them that he is struck at ; and therefore the war is not so much his , as their own . it is true according to our a doctrine , they are united to their prince as a wife to her husband ; so that they can no more right themselves by arms , then she can sue her husband while the bond of mariage continues . yet as , when her husband uses her extremely ill , she may complain of him to the judge , who , if he see 's cause , may dissolve the mariage by his sentence ; and after that she is at liberty to sue him as well as any other man : so a people may cry to the lord by reason of their oppression , and he may raise them up a deliverer , that shall take the government into his hands ; ( a foreign prince may lawfully do this , as hath been b already shewn ; ) and then they are not only free to defend themselves , but are oblig'd to joyn with him , against their oppressor . for the people's union with their prince ; though it cannot be dissolv'd but by a sentence from god ; yet by the prince's own act it may be so loosend , that it may be next to dissolution . the laws are the bond of union between prince and people : by these , as the prince holds his prerogative , so do the people their just rights and liberties . now suppose a people so opprest by their prince , that their laws being trodden under foot , they are in danger of losing not only their temporal rights , but , as much as can be , their eternal : in this case , there 's no doubt that the oppressor and the oppressed become two parties , being distinguisht by the most different interests that can be in the world. § . 48. in this case , if another prince , having a just cause of war , is so far concern'd for such a people , as to take them into his care , and to declare that he makes the war for their deliverance : the effect of this war , though we may call it a conquest , because it has resemblance of it , yet it cannot be properly so in any respect ; whether we consider the prince on whom it is made , or the people that have their deliverance by it . as to him , it is properly an a eviction by the just sentence of god ; who thus put 's him out of a trust , that he abus'd to the hurt of them for whose sakes it was given him . and as to the people , it cannot be a conquest over them , who are so far from having the war made against them , that it was made chiefly for their sakes . if there be any pretence of a conquest , it is only over them that were their oppressors . but as for them that were opprest , it makes altogether on their side ; so that they are the conquerors in effect , for they have the benefit of it : and he that obtain'd this for them hath a much more glorious title then that of a conqueror , for he is properly their restorer and deliverer . thus it has been always judg'd by the people of god , as it were easy to shew in many instances ; but very few may suffice , when there is none to be produc'd on the contrary . for that b former doctrin , we have the example of the jewish church in the time of alexander the great . when by his victory at issus , he had driven darius out of syria , the jews yielded to him . they had had no part in the war. even for that reason , he did not use the right of conquest upon them . he requir'd nothing more at their hands , but that they should pay him the same duties that they had paid to darius , and that as many of them as pleas'd should serve him in his wars : both which conditions they accepted , and perform'd , as if they had been his natural subjects . much more in that case of cyrus's conquest . when he had taken babylon , where the jews were in a state of captivity ; did he use the right of conquest over them ? did he sell them for slaves , or take away what they had ? so far he was from it , that he restor'd them from their captivity . having understood from their prophets , that god had given him those successes for their sakes ; he did not look upon them as a conquer'd people , but as them whom god sent him to deliver : and treated them accordingly , with all possible kindness and obligation . but there are no examples more to be observ'd by us christians , then those that happen'd in the time of constantin the great ; both because he was the first christian emperor , and because the first general council was held in his reign . now in those times of the purest christianity , we find not that in any of those countries which he had gain'd by the sword , any christian had the least scruple concerning his right to the government : nay they welcom'd him to it with all demonstrations of joy. and though he had acquir'd a title to it by the expulsion of those princes that had been their oppressors , and so might have taken it upon him as a conqueror , which title he seem'd to a affect upon other occasions ; yet where he had declar'd his cause of war to be for a peoples deliverance , this being so just and so honorable a title , he us'd it , and would have no other , in all his inscriptions . there might be given many other instances of this kind : but these are enough , to sh●w that one and the same person may conquer and drive out an oppressing prince , and yet , as to the subjects of that prince , he may have no right of conquest ; but that which is much better , the best that can be now in the world , that is , the right of a restorer & deliverer of his people . the end of the first part. a catalogue of books . printed for t. jones , at the white-horse . without temple-bar , 1691. a letter to dr sherlock , in vindication of his late book , intituled the case of allegiance . a sermon preach'd before the queen , january the 30th . being the day of the martyrdom of king charles i. by the bishop of s. asaph . there is newly publish'd a choice collection of ayrs for 2 and 3 treble flutes . compos'd by the best masters of musick . price 2. shillings 6. p. notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a48818-e910 the occasion of this psalm . a psal. lxxv . 3. the scope of these words b psal. lxxv . 45. c psal. lii . 1. i. that all power is from god. a in aben-ezra . b psal. xlviii . 1. a esa. xiv . 13. ( b ) psal. lxxxii . 1. ii. that he gives it judicially . the heads of the following discourse . of the institution of government . a rom. xiii . 1 , 2. b rom. xiii . 1. ( c ) vers. ● . god's ways of conferring soverain power . i immediatly , in the patriarchs times . a gen. x. 32. b gen. x. 9. c gen. xxi●i . 6. d gen. xvi 5. e g●n . xxv. 23. a exod. i. 14. 2 in the times of the theocracy . b exod. xix. 4 , 5. 2 sam. xii . 12. c psal. cxxiv . 1 , 2 3 in the hereditary kingdom of israel . d 1 sam. viii. 5. a 1 sam. xiii . 13. b ver. 14. c 1 chron. xxviii . 5. ii mediatly by consent of the people . and that , i on account of merit . thus especially on founders of nations . a exod. xxxii . 1. on first planters . on restorers and deliverers . a 1 macc. xiv. 41 , 49. ii on account of favor . a psal. lxv. 7. b 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the first elections of kings . a king james's works , pag. 612. what god did directly by his word and oracle among his own people in the election of kings , he did it only by his secret working in the hearts of other nations , though themselves knew not whence those motions came which god by his finger writ in their hearts . in hereditary successions . a iren. adv . haeres . v. 24. cujus jussu homines nascuntur , hujus jussu & reges constituuntur . by whose command they are born men , by his command they are also made kings . tertull. apologet. c. 30. inde est imperator unde & homo antequam imperator ; inde potest as illi unde & spiritus . he is from thence made emperor from whence he has also his breath . in elective kingdoms . in free states . a plato de legibus iii. aristot polit ▪ l. 3. polyb. hist. vi . there are others in sanderson . de oblig . consc. vii . 16. of transferring the power from one to another . that this is the act of god. a this is protestant doctrin . see sanderson de oblig . conscient . vii . 20. grot. de jure b. & p. l. 3. 8 : pufendorf . de jure nat. & gent. vii . 6. 1. popish writers , as bellarmin , becan , &c. teach otherwise . suarez de legibus iii. 4. 6 mentioning that doctrin , that a people may depose their king , saith it is altogether false ; but corrects this afterward , saying , nisi fortasse in tyrannidem declinet , unless he happen to become a tyrant ; of which this jesuit allows the people to be judge . he might as well have agreed with his fellows . by giving one a conquest over the other . god gives a conquest judicially . a psal. lxxxii . i. i. by way of judgment . a psal. lxxv. 8. on kings . a king james's works , pag. 531. every king , in a setled kingdom , is bound to observe the paction made to his people by his laws , in framing his government agreeable thereunto . ib. a king , governing in a setled kingdom , leaves to be a king ; and degenerates into a tyrant , as soon as he leaves off to govern according to his laws : in which case , the king's conscience may speak to him , as the poor widow said to philip of macedon , either govern according to your law , aut ne rex sis . b king james's works , pag. 553. i was sworn to maintain the law of the land , and therefore i had been perjured if i had altered it . ib. pag. 531. all kings that are not tyrants or perjured , will be glad to bind themselves within the limits of their laws . — and they that persuade them the contrary are vipers and pests , both against them , and the commonwealth . c pufendorf . de leg. nat. & gent. vii . 6. 10. if he promiseth at his coronation to govern according to laws , and breaks his promise , he is forsworn : and yet that doth not dissolve his government . king james's works , pag. 531. though no christian ought to allow any rebellion of people against their prince , yet doth god never leave kings unpunisht when they transgress these limits . for neglect of government . for oppressing the people . a esay x. 7. this is just and necessary . b rom. xiii . 2. a rom. xiii . 4. b rom. xiii . 3. c esay vii . 17. a psal. lvii. 11. b when don pedro king of castile , by his tyranny , had so lost himself at home , and gained so many enemies abroad , that his bastard brother , being set up against him by some of the neighbouring kings , had driven him out of his kingdome without blood ; he came to our black prince , who was then at bourdeaux , and desir'd him to bring him back into his kingdom . the prince called a council upon it , where some of his friends advised him to forbear : telling him the great evils that this king had done ; and adding this in the conclusion , all that he hath now to suffer , is but the rod of god , sent to chastise him , and to give example to other christian kings and princes of the earth that they may not do like him . froissart hist. l. 231. 2 god does this by way of justice . 1 war is an appeal to god. a 1 chron. xxix. 11. b judg. xi . 27. 2 it is proper to kings . a rom. xiii . 6. b 1 pet. ii. 13 , 14. a bishop bramhall's works , p. 834. private right , and private justice , is between particular men. publick right , and publick justice is between common-wealths , as in a foreign war. b see pufendorf . de jure nat. & gent. ii. 3. 21. hooker eccles. pol. i. saith of the law of nations , that it can be no more prejudiced by the laws of any kingdom , than these can be by the resolutions of private men. c see grot. de jure belli & pacis i. 2. 1. ad 5. d rom. xiii . 3 , 4. mat. xxvi . 52. dudley digs of the unlawfulness of subjects taking up arms — london , 1675. § 3. p. 75. equals — if injur'd they require satisfaction , and upon denial of it attempt to compass it by force , they are esteem'd by the law of reason and nations , just enemies ; whereas subjects , if they make war upon their sovereign , tho' when wrong'd , are worthily accounted rebels . see albericus gentilis de jure belli b. fol. 1. from pomponius , c. 118. tituli digest . de verb. signif . & ulpian . c. 24. tit . de captivis . see grot. de jure belli & pacis l. 3. 5. zouch p. 30 de jure inter gentes , l. 6. 3. when they have just cause . e justinian instit. l. 2. as in fear of great danger . f lord bacon's works , london 1670 , p. 2. in his considerations on the war with spain . the second of his three just grounds for that war , was a just fear of subverting our civil estate : and thereupon he says , that wars preventive , upon just fears , are true defensives , as well as upon an actual invasion . in his works , london 1638. among his sermones fideles , p. 189. he goes further , in saying , justus metus imminentis periculi , etsi violentia aliqua non praecessit , proculdubio belli causa est competens & legitima . a just fear of imminent danger , tho there has not been any violence used , is but of all doubt a sufficient and lawful cause of war. g see grot. de jure belli & pacis , ii. 20 , 39. and pufendorf . de jure naturae & gentium , viii . 6. 3. h albericus gentilis de jure belli , i. fol. c. 3. saith , it is defensio utilis , quando verendum ne petamur . and defensio honesta quando alios tuemur . he brings both these together , in the case of queen elizabeth's defending the dutch against the king of spain . ib. & fol. d. he saith , she might justly do it ; for if the government of the netherlands should be changed , and the king of spain become absolute , she her self would be in danger of him . he saith this is ipsa ratio imperiorum . see grot. de jure b. & p. ii. 25. 8. and pufendorf . de jur. nat. & gent. viii . 6. 14. ending . see grotius de jure belli & pacis ii. 20. 40. especially when also religion is concern'd . justinian coll. vi. 7. 4. it is for this cause that wo●●● have made so many wars in africk and italy ; namely , for orthodoxy in religion , and for the liberty of our subjects . bishop bilson of the true difference between subjection and rebellion , oxford , 1625. p. 381. in the margin has this position . princes who bear the sword may lawfully wage war for religion . i grot. de jure belli & pacis ii. 20. 48. k see concil . lateran . iv. canon . 4. that it is every prince's duty to persecute ; and that in case he neglect it , he thereby forfeits his dominions . see the oath that every popish bishop takes in the pontisicale romanum . it has these words in it ; i will persecute all hereticks and schismaticks , rebells to our lord the pope , and will fight against them to the utmost of my power . suarez de legibus iii. 5. 8. ending . saith , heathen kings cannot be deprived of their power by war , unless they abuse it to the injury of christian religion , or the destruction of the faithful that are under them , as is the constant opinion of divines : meaning of them in the roman church . again iii. 10. 6. if insidels have the faithful for their subjects , and would turn them from the faith or obedience of the church , — then the church has just cause of war against them . but for heretick princes , he says there , that the church has direct power over them , and may deprive them in punishment of their infidelity or heresie . ib. q. when religion suffers in another kingdom . 1 cor. xii . 25 , 26. justinian . coll. vi. 7. 4. it is for this cause that we have made so many wars in africk , and italy ; viz. for orthodoxy in religion , and for the liberty of our subjects . see girolamo catena's life of that pope : and from him camden's annals , a. d. 1572. example in q. elizabeths time . a camdeni annales a. d. 1559. in the queen's consultation concerning the demands of succor for the protestants of scotland against the french faction in that kingdom , saith pessimi exempli videbatur principem patrocinium praestare tumultuantibus principis alterius subditis : at impietatis ejusdem religionis cultoribus deesse . it seem'd a thing of very ill example for one prince to patronize another prince's subjects in commotion : but it seem'd an impious thing to be wanting to them of the same religion . whereupon the resolution was taken , ejusdem religionis professoribus subveniendum , & gallos a scotia exturbandos : that the professors of the same religion must be helpt , and that the french must be driven out of scotland . ib. a. d. 1562. when she sent the earl of warwick with an army into france , she declared , she could not but do it , unless she would let the guises ▪ do their pleasure with that young king and his protestant subjects . quodque maximum , ne suam religionem , securitatem , & salutem , ignave prodere videretur : and which was chiefly to be considered , least she should seem basely to betray her own religion , security , and safety . ib. a. d. 1585. after deliberation whether she should take upon her the protection of the states against the king of spain , this was her resolution , statuit & christianae pietatis esse , afflictis belgis ejusdem religionis cultoribus subvenire ; & prudentiae , exitiosas hostium machinationes praevertendo , populi sibi commissi incolumitati consulere — hinc b●lgarum patrocinium palam suscepit — she did resolve , that it was a duty of christian piety to help the afflicted dutch , being professors of the same religion ; and that it was a point of prudence by preventing the destructive designs of their enemies , to provide for the safety of her own people — thereupon she took upon her publickly the protection of the dutch. b albericus gentilis ( her professor of law in the university of oxford ) de jure belli d. speaking of her war with spain , saith , age , age , obsiste , principum fortissima , nam obsistis justissime . c bishop jewell's defence of the apology , p. 16. &c. and bilson of the difference between subjection and rebellion , ubi supra . d the acts of parliament and convocation that prove this , see at the end of this first chapter . a § 36. especially where it is the religion setled by law. an answer to the paper delivered by 〈…〉 his 〈◊〉 , to the 〈◊〉 of london , p 16 , 17 , 18 , 19. of licinius he tells us , how designing war against his brother in law constantine , but not thinking fit yet to declare it , first he fell upon the christians in his own part of the empire . euseb. hist. x. 8. edit . vales. p. 396. b. he began first with the bishops , not suffering them to meet in synods . vit. constant. l. 51. then he turned all christians out of their places at court. eufeb . hist. x. 8. & vit. constant. l. 52. then he turned all christians out of the army , and out of offices . euseb. hist. ib. & vit. constant. l. 54. then he seiz'd their estates . ib. & ib. at last he fell on the bishops . euseb. hist. x. 8. p. 397. b. at first secretly and cunningly , not by himself for fear of constantine , but by his governors . ib. he killed some bishops for praying for constantine . vit. constant. ii. 2. then constantine began to stir , thinking it holy and pious to remove one , and save a multitude . vit. constant. ii. 3. the joy of christians upon his victory , see eus. x. 9. p. 399. c , d. & vit. constant. ii. 19. p. 452. c. then it makes a just conquest a see §. 26. b see §. 35. and conquest giveth right . judges xi . 24. dan. ii. 21. jos. antiq. x. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . 14. selden . de jure nat. & gent. vi 17. p. 789. argent . 1665. ita non solum armis alexandri se , ex jure quod ei competiit bellico , subdidere ; sed imperio ejus dilatando stipendiarios se libenter tune praebuere ; nec interea de belli causâ , aut religione dispari , soliciti . so they not only submitted themselves to alexander's arms on the account of that right which he had gotten by war ; but then they willingly offered themselves to serve under him for the farther enlargement of his empire ; not troubling themselves the mean while , about the cause of the war , or the difference of religion . a thus david , psal. i. x. 8. & cviii . 9. thus constantine the great stiled himself triumphator , and stamp'd his coin with the words victoria gothica , sarmatia devicta , &c. debellaiori gentium barbararum . thus likewise the following christian emperors . b justinian coll. ii. 2. 10. we have recovered all afric , and subdued the vandals , and hope to receive of god many yet greater things than these . id. coll. v. 15. 1. we ordain these laws to be observed in all nations under our government : some whereof god gave us at first , others he hath added since , and we hope he will still increase . a deut. xvii . 15. b jer. xxi 8 , 9. c convocation book . i. 28. &c. doubted when the cause is certainly unjust a pufend. de jur. nat. & gent. vii . 8 , 9. b ib. vii . 8. 10. sanderson obl. consc. v. 17 , &c. no doubt when the cause is certainly just. a horn. de civ . ii. 9. 2. ( as quoted by pufend. jur. nat. & gent. vii . 7. 3. if one prince overcomes another that unjustly provokes him , and hath deserv'd it by other injuries , he hath forthwith a lawful power against him whom he hath so overcome ; and is not to stay for the consent of the people whom he hath brought under his dominion . pufendorf there says , that where there was a just cause of invasion , there the getting of a country into possession , makes for the obtaining of the dominion thereof ; and is confirm'd by the consent of the subjects , and their following covenant . but that till this is had , the state of war continues , and there is no obligation , nor faith , and so no dominion . dudley digs of the unlawfulness of subjects taking up arms , &c. §. 4. p. 132. puts an objection , that if the conqueror comes in by force , he may be turn'd out by the same title . in answer to it , he saith , de jure he cannot — for though conquest be a name of greater strength only , and be not it self a right , yet it is the mother of it ; because when the people are in his power , — they pass their consent to be his faithful subjects , — and this subsequent act gives him a lawful right to the monarchy . b andrews on the commandements . lond. 1650. p. 331. kingdoms — when they are obtained by a just conquest , are not to be accounted tyrannical , because they are just ; for there may be a just title by conquest , when the war is upon just grounds . ib. p. 461. besides those original ways of propriety , there is also a propriety by the right of war , or law of arms ; because the magistrate hath power and authority — to use his sword abroad as well as at home , and may punish a foreign enemy in some cases , even by expelling him his land , — and in this right of propriety , he hath not only dominium , the lordship and dominion over it , but usum , the use also . sanderson . oblig . consc. vii . 17. speaking of them that come into government vi & armis , saith , they come in either by meer usurpation without any pretence of right , or by making just war upon their enemies by whom they are unjustly provoked . ib. vii . 24. he saith , by the law of nations that power of a prince is just , which is either gotten by just war , or which by long possession is confirm'd as by a right of prescription . bramhall's works , p. 527. those whose predecessors , or themselves , have attain'd to sovereignty by the sword , by a conquest in a just war , claim immediately from god. ib. p. 537. just conquest in a lawful war acquireth good right of dominion , as well as possession . — neither is this to alter the course of nature , or frustrate the tenor of law , but it self is the law of nature and nations . a doubtful cause is enough for the prince in possession . a sanderson . de oblig . consc. v. 15. where , among the examples of such competitors , he mentions that very sharp and long dispute that was between the two houses of york and lancaster concerning the succession of this kingdom ; in which , according to his judgment , a good patriot ought to have obeyed the king that was in possession . and thus he concludes , it is certain by the consent of all nations all the world over , that the laws every where ( not only that of 11 hen. vii . but the laws every where ) have favour'd him that is in possession ; and in such cases that famous sentence of the lawyers has always carried it , in rebus dubiis melior est conditio possidentis . a see §. 42. the people ought to be satisfied with this . b see §. 42. albericus gentilis de jure belli iii. f. c. blames lucan for calling alexander orbis terrarum praedonem . for ( saith he ) alexander declar'd a just cause of war ; and when he had the victory , that then he might possess himself of his enemies dominions , is more then a received opinion ; alexander's reasons are express'd in his epistle to darius , which is in arrian exped . alex. ii. a see § 45. but much more with a certain just cause . b see § 36. a see grot. de jure b. & p. iii. 13. 4. and 15. 12. b see §. 36. a see §. 25. jud. ii. 18. and iv. 3. jud. iii. 9 , 15 b §. 36. when the cause is for their sake , it is to them not a conquest , but a deliverance . a calvin's law-dictionary has this sense of the word evictio ; est ejus rei , quam adversarius legitimo jure acquisierat , per judicem recuperatio . in this sense it seems to have been us'd in speaking of the fall of maxentius ; whereof see the following note . b §. 46 47. a see §. 42. note a. in memory of his victory over maxentius , the day on which it happen'd being the 27th . of october was styl'd in the christian roman calendar evictio tyranni , what that means see in the former note . on the arch which was set up in memory of it , and which is yet to be seen at rome , there is inscrib'd constantino maximo &c. liberatori urbis , fundatori quietis . see grut. inscr. p. 282. in his coins he is call'd restitutor libertatis , conservator urbis suae , and africae suae &c. see mediobarbus . likewise upon the overthrow of maximinus , the joy and thanksgiving of christians for their deliverance , see in euseb. hist. x. 1 and 2. and see his panegyric to paulinus , bishop of tyre , esp . p. 378. of valesius edition , and remember that both these were subjects of that emperor maximinus . of the joy of christians upon their deliverance from the tyranny of licinius enough hath been said in §. 40. acts of parliament and convocation in queen elizabeth's time , by which it appears ( as hath been already said in §. 39. ) that , in the wars that she made on the account of religion , she had both their approbation and assistance . v o. eliz. a. d. 1562. in the convocation that fram'd the 39 articles . the prelates and clergy being lawfully congregated , calling to remembrance &c. and finally pondering the inestimable charges sustain'd by your highness in reducing the realm of scotland to unity and concord ; as also in procuring as much as in your highness lies , by all kind of godly and prudent means , the abateing of all hostility and persecution within the realm of france , practis'd and used against the professors of god's holy gospel and true religion ; hath given and granted &c. a bill of subsidy , in rastall's collection ii. p. 84. edit . lond. 1618. xiii o. eliz. a. d. 1571. when the parliament enjoyn'd the subscribing of those articles . the prelates and clergy &c. considering farther the inestimable charges sustain'd by your highness in procuring , — by all godly and prudent means , the abating of all hostility and persecution within the realm of france , and in other places , practis'd against the professors of god's holy gospel and true religion ; have given and granted as follows , rastall ib. p. 167. xliii o. eliz. a. d. 1601. in her convocation , a subsidy was granted by the clergy , with this reason exprest , for who should have a more lively sence of your majesty's princely courage and constancy , in advancing and protecting the free profession of the gospel within and without your majesty's dominions , then the clergy . rastall ib. p. 520. xxxv o. eliz. there was a subsidy granted by the temporalty , together with an acknowledgment of the great honor which it hath pleas'd god to give your majesty abroad ( in france and flanders ) in making you the principal support of all just and relegious causes against usurpers : so that this island hath in your majesty's days been a pray and sanctuary to distressed states and kingdoms , and is a bulwark against the tirannies of mighty and usurping potentates . rastall ib. p. 421. xxxix o. eliz. there is another subsidy granted to that queen by the temporalty , almost in the same words . rastall ib. p. 479. an answer to the bishop of oxford's reasons for abrogating the test impos'd on all members of parliament anno 1678, octob. 30 in these words, i, a.b., do solemnly and sincerely, in the presence of god, profess, testifie, and declare, that i do believe that in the sacrament of the lord's supper there is not any transubstantiation of the elements of bread and wine into the body and blood of christ at, or after the consecration thereof by any person whatsoever, and that the invocation of adoration of the virgin mary, or any other saint, and the sacrifice of the dais, as they are now used in the church of rome, are superstitious and idolatrous / by a person of quality. lloyd, william, 1627-1717. 1688 approx. 118 kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from 31 1-bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : 2005-10 (eebo-tcp phase 1). a48813 wing l2673 estc r977 11875565 ocm 11875565 50209 this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons 0 1.0 universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase 1, no. a48813) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set 50209) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, 1641-1700 ; 501:9) an answer to the bishop of oxford's reasons for abrogating the test impos'd on all members of parliament anno 1678, octob. 30 in these words, i, a.b., do solemnly and sincerely, in the presence of god, profess, testifie, and declare, that i do believe that in the sacrament of the lord's supper there is not any transubstantiation of the elements of bread and wine into the body and blood of christ at, or after the consecration thereof by any person whatsoever, and that the invocation of adoration of the virgin mary, or any other saint, and the sacrifice of the dais, as they are now used in the church of rome, are superstitious and idolatrous / by a person of quality. lloyd, william, 1627-1717. [2], 6, 46 p. [s.n.], london : 1688. preface signed: drawdereve rofmada. signed, p. 46: dra. locnil. attributed to william lloyd, d.d. cf. halkett & laing. reproduction of original in huntington library. created by converting tcp files to tei p5 using tcp2tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between 1473 and 1700 available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the 25,363 texts created during phase 1 of the project have been released into the public domain as of 1 january 2015. anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. 5% (or 5 pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of 100 instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level 4 of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p5, characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng parker, samuel, 1640-1688. -reasons for abrogating the test imposed upon all members of parliament. test act (1678) 2003-11 tcp assigned for keying and markup 2003-12 spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images 2005-02 andrew kuster sampled and proofread 2005-02 andrew kuster text and markup reviewed and edited 2005-04 pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion an answer to the bishop of oxford's reasons for abrogating the test , impos'd on all members of parliament anno 1678. octob. 30. in these words , i a. b. do solemnly and sincerely , in the presence of god , profess , testifie , and declare , that i do believe that in the sacrament of the lord's supper there is not any transubstantiation of the elements of bread and wine into the body and blood of christ , at , or after the consecration thereof by any person whatsoever ; and that the invocation , or adoration of the uirgin mary , or any other saint , and the sacrifice of the mass , as they are now used in the church of rome , are superstitious and idolatrous . by a person of quality . london , printed in the year 1688. to the kingdom in general . his majesty , having with a grace exemplary not onely to all his subjects of this naiion , but to all christian princes and states , ( however they may be themselves of the roman persuasion ) design'd it , as the avowed glory and stability of his reign , to settle such a liberty , that there may be free discourses , and debates concerning the truths of christian religion , and the dissents of christians in them , as from the pulpit , so proportionably from the press ; as therefore the ministers and fautors of that church ( which would be known by the name of catholick ) have always ( and will be while they are ) always active with their pens to the utmost in their sphaer . and as we see they have publick freedom , so is it not to be doubted of the princely so vniversal grace , but that he intends a freedom on the other side to answer ; that there may be no inequality in holding the beam , but that it may alike incline to all in this matter , specially now that he is making credence of those his royal favours to all his protestant subjects , who cannot but be deeply concern'd at such a time as this ; because of the great advantages , the interests of the counter-scale hope for from a sovereign of their own sentiments . but in no case is this liberty more desirable , than when an amphibious-ambidextrous bishop , who assumes , like that angel of the revelation , to set one foot on the sea , and the other on the earth : one foot on the protestant church , ( which he calls one as if his self were of it ) and the other on the roman : in favour of which he so openly appeareth ( to speak the most honourably of him ) to conciliate toward it , at lest a cassandrian temperament : which , as it will never be yielded by the protestant , so would it not be accepted , if it were offer'd , by the papist . for he hath published ( with what intentions is best known to god , and his own conscience ) a palliation of the most irreconciliable points of the popish religion , transubstantiation , the sacrifice of the mass , the invocation and adoration of the virgin mary swoln to such a monstrosity in that religion , together with other saints , and all with images too ; points wherein the wisedom of the nation thought fit to fix the test , as the security of protestancy ; and that of images of so great infamy in sacred writ , and all these with a multitude of rampant words ; now rather than a multitude of such words should not be answered , or a man of lips be justified , even the very stones would speak : such lies and sophistry will not suffer men to hold their peace , and while he seems rather to mock than argue , should not every one endeavour to make him ashamed ? for , certainly , his ways of discourse are like those of the whorish woman in the proverbs , so moveable , one cannot know them , he comes out in this time , that he esteems a twilight , and with a prostituted subtilty he treats of sacred things : he is loud and stubborn ; his feet abide not in the house of his own church , as he his self styles it ; but now he is in the streets of the strange religion , and layeth wait in every corner with a new sort of ecclesiastical polity , or in a new edition , and his great temptation is , i have , saith ●e● peace-offerings with me , that carry at the same time reconciliableness to rome , and likewise a blessing himself in a design'd indulgence to his own genius , and caressing himself in the thoughts of his comfortable magdalen importances , and though at a high water of papacy he would be burnt for a heretick , if he did not speak more out , which without doubt he is prepar'd to do on congruous occasions , yet so much , at this seeming return of the water , is enough to beatifie and then canonize him in that present kalender , where , i doubt not , he stands markt with a red letter , and it may be a just reason to all sincere protestants to spue him out of their mouths : the observation of his double dealing and appearing more like the atheist than the learned and ingenuous , though mispersuaded , papist , sowetimes transports my style beyond its own intention and resolution , when i first essaid to consider onely the rational part of discourse in those matters ; and i am much the bolder , because i hear from all , his book hath much disserv'd his majesties gratious purpose , and created in all minds a nausaea ; specially observing his odd aspersions on so eminent a person , as dr. st. who in the thoughts of all the world is incomparably ( and beyond all possibility of being nam'd together , ) ten thousand times more , the apostolick bishop . if i have offered too largely to a just indignation here , i having the treatise it self mostly applied my self to the rational part , and minded chiefly to possess the reader with the true sense of things : i have therefore wav'd the persuit of his history of transubstantiation in the several stages of it , leaving it to more learned persons , who , i doubt not , may observe in their usual walks and dail-y paths , through the whole course of ecclesiastick times many of his erratick motions : but however the main point of truth , or falshood on that head , or article rests in this little room whether it is possible to believe such sublime spirituality ( as our lord alway breath'd ) so little of kin to sense , to matter , to flesh , should in his holy dying institution , forsake him so , that he should , intend to engage his blessed body , that was so suddenly to become a spiritual glorious body , and to asscend far above all heavens , to so inglorious , insipid , inefficacious a desscent , as onely to dispossess a small roll os bread , or wafer of its whole substance , and as by a trick to leave its accidents still intire to fool and baffle all the sense and reason in the world : and yet to so little effect as to suffer the bodies and the souls too , of the greatest number of the eaters to be without any evidences of good , as notorious and certain , as the miracle is supposed to be stupendous ; whoever can believe this , need not go to visit the dark and too oft impure cells where so strange a docrine was conceiv'd and foster'd , he hath a bulimy of faith without more ado of search and inquiry to devour all the absurdities that the name of a church can offer him . and so to the points os idolatry , abating from things pious and learned , ( to which let the utmost allowances of deference and honour be yielded , and paid ) the notions he would imprint of it on the minds of his readers , are an audacious affront ( as he speaks in a more innocent case ) to god the creator of heaven and earth in his word , who therein abhorrs all distributions and parcellings out of any the least particles of the glory of the one god , or mediator to any of the most seraphick of his creatures , angels , or saints , or the mother of god , as he speaks without precedent from scripture , and hardly allowable in a discourse of idolatry although tolerated in the case of the nestorian heresie : even so all address of any beings besides that god and the mediator , his word doth de test specially invisible beings , to whom we can make not the least application , but under the peril of idolatry as communicating them , in any semblances of worship , with those incommunicable attributes and properties of omniscience and omnipresence : he hath indeed allowed and commanded mutuous respects in the lower humane world for the settlement of the order of religious , and civil offices ; but all the figments of men's own brains concerning worship of himself , or of the mediator through the mediation of any of his creatures , and most notoriously , by graven images , or any kind of similitudes comprehending other figments , he declares to be abomination . it is a grand audaciousness therefore to offer such an insolent piece of falshood to christian minds as that the cherub were by his appointment to be worshipped , or to have worship directed to them , because their resemblances were placed as waiting at that throne that was empty of any presence to sit upon it ; but an invisible glory and grace had promised favour to those who , according to his word , praid toward that place , which he having fill'd with a visible sign of his presence of glory he after placed his name there : with as much sense therefore it might have been said that every stone in the building of the temple , or whatever was in the temple , or specially in the holy of holies , was to be worshipped as to say the cherubim were to be worshipped , of god in , through , or by them . a parallell essrontery it is to load the sun and host of heaven , the scripture with all the idolatries brands , and so contrary to the very letter of it , that the visional representation of the jewish idolatries to ezekiel , ch. 7. distinguisheth that of the sun from all the rest , i stand therefore in perfect amaze and astonish what the christian , much more the protestant , bishop should mean , and yet make so open and publick an appeal for his integrity , god and the world in the close . as to what concerns the test and the peerage , i humbly submit the reason of it to the higher judges in these things ; begging pardon of any errors in so great matters , as likewise taking example in that , i beg of all men allowance for mistakes of humane infirmity in so critical a point and in so critical a time . drawdereve rofmada . an answer to the bishop of oxford's reasons for abrogating the test impos'd on all members of parliament . ann. 1678. octob. 30. in undertaking to give an answer to these reasons , i shall choose , as my particular province , to insist onely upon the most substantial principles of reason , and that may most concern , ( as we usually speak ) the merits of the cause , with all due regard to the character of dignity , the laws of this nation , and the constitution of the government thereof ( both civil and ecclesiastick ) have imprinted upon the authour ; as also remembring the admonition the apostle jude gives from the example of the arch-angel , who disputing with the devil about the body of moses , most probably in the cause of idolatry , did not adventure to bring against him a railing accusation , but said , the lord rebuke thee . nor will i assume to make the least reflexion upon the insufficiencies of the discourse , as to its particular frame and menage , or upon the air , meen , or spirit of it , relating to either the roman , or the protestant religion , or to the names of greatest honour , authority and reverence , who have acted , or written in defence of the reformation : but leaving all this part to those , who have both talents , and authority to support them in their just censures of such a manner of treaty of what deserves our highest value and veneration , i will content my self with debating upon the principal matters , taking them in the utmost extent of the offensive , or defensive arguments upon them . the heads therefore according to which this discourse is to be modell'd , must be those reasons , the bishop gives for the abrogating of the test : the firstof which is ; that it doth not onely diminish , but utterly destroy the natural rights of peerage , and turns the birth-right of the english nobility into a precarious title . now in the first place in answer to this , i must observe ; that in the very thought of utterly destroying this right , the episcopal authour does somewhat relent , and recoyl from the height of his expression , and abates it into a turning that birth-right into a precarious title : taking therefore advantage from that so natural , and even necessary recess , or condescension , if not to be thought , as it very much seems a check upon impetuousness of style from a consciousness of its excess ; i shall take the boldness more freely to assert , that the natural rights of peerage are not at all destroyed , but own'd , upheld , and more solemnly acknowledg'd by the test-act . secondly , that the birth-right of the english nobility is no way turn'd into a precarious title by it . and because this is indeed the onely argument for the removing the test-act , that is of true strength , and merit in the whole contexture ; it deserves the more attent consideration . for whatever shall attempt to shake such a main pillar , and fundamental principle of our english government , ought to be both suspected , and feared ; and if it indeed prove to do so , to be surpriz'd and foreclos'd from its effect : but the invalidity of this charge will thus appear . 1. it is most evident the right of peerage in the general stands firm , notwithstanding the test : seeing this principle of government is not onely still , but with strongest confirmations even from this very test-act on all sides preserv'd most firm and undoubted , that there is a most just right that every peer hath to all the privileges of english peerage : accordingly the very act is founded upon that acknowledgment , and supposition , viz. that every peer hath such right to all the honours of peerage , and to that right most unquestionable in it self , for else the very ground of the law were taken away . 2. all and every peer submitting to that law takes that right , and enjoys it without any diminution , and holds it not onely for himself , but for that whole estate : the whole being acknowledg'd in every member : and particularly sitting , and voting in the higher house of parliament , ( which is therefore with honour to that estate call'd the house of lords ) is acknowledged to be the just right of peerage without any infraction upon the right it self . 3. even those noble lords , who do refuse , or do not actually submit to the taking the test , have yet their right of birth , blood , or other title preserv'd undisputed , and inviolate , as it is such a right and on such a claim ; and therefore whenever they please to accept it on that condition , there is no demur upon their right . but untill they so accept , their right is in a kind of abeyance , and custody of law for them ; and never dyes , or is extinguisht . 4. the suspension in the mean time amounts no higher to the defalcation of the priviledge , ( nor indeed so high ) than the minority of such noble persons , which cause 's a suspension of that priviledge of voting in parliament , till they are of age , which is not at their pleasure , but requires the natural course of time to advance them to it ; whereas in this case , they may in construction of law every day remove the obstruction and enjoy their right , seeing the claim is always allow'd , and own'd , and the law takes no notice of the reasons of their refusal . 5. this is made most evident ; in that all other natural rights of their peerage , are notwithstanding the suspension of this particular branch continued to them . 6. it is most undeniable ; their right of blood , or other claim to the priviledge of parliament is unmoved ; because not their taking the test , but that precedent , and still continuing just right , gives them a perfect enjoyment of that particular priviledge whenever they take the test. which is , i hope , a full vindication of the natural rights of peerage from being utterly destroyed ; seeing it is onely one branch , that is in question , and that is onely suspended , or rather deposited in trust with the house of peers , and no way destroy'd , or extinguish'd . 2. i come therefore to make good in the second place , that the birth-right os the english nobility is not turn'd into a precarious title , nor that which in former ages was forfeited onely by treason is now at the mercy of every faction , or every passion in parliament . for that can never be precarious , nor at such mercy , which subsists , and rests upon the common base of the whole world for its security , and that is the law of self-preservation . for when a parliament consists of two houses , and the vpper house of two estates , each estate a convention ( as is to be always presumed ) of the wisest , and most honourable persons of a whole nation , the lower house hath always upon all their proposals , or offers at any bill , the curb and restraint ; that this is to pass the vpper house , or house of lords , and therefore cannot rationally so much , as essay them with any law , that would destroy the rights of their peerage . but suppose the house of commons should make so unreasonable an attempt , it can never be imagin'd , so intelligent a body always provident , and watchfull , so naturally sensible of honour , and of their own interest , should either be impos'd upon , or drawn by whatsoever motives to consent to the destruction of their very constitution , there being no stronger passion , or more binding cement , than that of self-preservation . and yet the preparation of the two houses for the bringing forth a law , does but form the materials , that they may be presented to the royal assent to to give them the form and life ; who as the common father of the countrey will judg ▪ of all bills , whether they are the products of passion , or faction , and so they either live , or are still-born . when all laws are therefore thus winnow'd , and sifted through these several explorations of persons suppos'd to have all manner of talents for judging , and the quickest resentments of their own interest , and concernment whether as the lower , or higher body of a nation , whether civil , or ecclesiastick , and then shall all meet in the common head , who sees , and feels for the whole , it is very adventurous to impute such enactions to the faction , or passion of a parliament . seeing this must needs be the firmest foundation humane affairs can be entrusted to in this world , viz. the law of self preservation ballanc'd by king , lords , and commons , e're any thing becomes a law. and although , it is true , the influence of the supreme prince , the genius , and temper of an age , or particular inclination of times , the configuration of various co-incidents may preponderate to the worse , in some laws , yet there must be submission to suffering , even when conscience , or reason countersways that which we call active obedience to such laws ; or all government must be unhinged , and fall . and seeing it is acknowledg'd there may be a forfeiture by treason of the rights of peerage , and that it hath been in the power of parliaments to declare the nature and kinds of treason , there is , nor can be greater danger to the peerage in trusting themselves with the suspension of one branch of their right than , in trusting themselves with the whole of those rights : and it is very rare , that humane nature ( specially such sapient and honourable part of it ) conspire with a faction , or passion against themselves , or receive a precedent srom a partial infringment of their rights to destruction of the whole ; seeing , if so great an estate hath overseen in a lesser concern , it is to be concluded , it will be the more jealous after , and where the whole is in danger ; and so there is no more consequence from the precedent of the test-law ( which is either unawares , or by the sorce of truth , or of meer grace , it being unlike the rest of this discourse , granted by the reverend authour to have been usefull in its season ) than from a necessary and prudent opening a vein to conclude the person that consents to the one , will therefore consent to the letting out the whole mass of blood. and lastly after all that hath been said ; the instances this authour gives of the first transubstantiation-test , and the protestation , or test of loyalty in which the priviledge of peerage was so carefully provided for against injury by either of those tests , do rather strengthen than weaken what hath been insisted on ; for it confirms , how quick of apprehension the house of peers have always been in that point , and therefore they would not suffer their own peerage to fall under any eclipse , sooner than they found absolute necessity , and such a good arising , as would compensate any so much , as parenthesis of the full beams of that glory on any of their members , and so that it should be no more than a parenthesis ; till such members mov'd themselves to such a position , that no part of their orb of honour should be unenlighten'd . but in the other test they seeing no reason sor the shortest suspension on accounts of loyalty , sufficiently otherwise secur'd , lest there should arise a custom of trapaning peers out of their rights , some noble personages resolv'd to stem that tide ; even as in the wise administration of what pertains to health , extraordinary methods may be resolv'd against ; but when indeed formidable symptoms appear , such resolutions may be rescinded ; and so without any dishonour but great honour , the peers who entred protestations against such superfluous tests , as were projected to ensnare and obtein upon them standing orders of the house against any such tests , and yet might upon pressing vehement urgencies , see it necessary for the safety of the whole body of the peerage to have such a test as might bring some of their members under a suspension , till they gave hostages of their not sufsering such persuasions to have the ascendent of them , as might be destructive to a protestant nobility in all appearance much the major part ; whereas in the case of the designed protestation , the lesser part were probably understood to have design'd by degrees to have disinherison'd through such artificesthe greater number , of which some lords more sagacious , being aware , entred their protestation to awaken others equally concern'd , though not so foreseeing , and whose foresight gain'd upon the rest . and seeing no such protestation was entred in the case of the last transubstantiation-test , it assures the evidence of the reasonableness of it , overweigh'd the very attempt : and so i take leave of the first reason , which i have more diligently attended in all its moments of appearance , because it is urg'd not only by this authour , but by the generality of the zealous for removing the test-act . and it issues into this most equitable maxim of government ; that the major part of each particular body politick in a nation must judg , even as particular persons do , what is best for the whole . and the house of peers being judg for it self , and most tender of it self ; and the king , the father and fountain of honour , having advised with them , and given life to a law for the suspension of the rights of those peers who neglect to take the test ; this law can by no means shake the general rights of peerage , or so much as destroy , but onely suspends the right of particular peers , till they yield obedience to that law , which acknowledging their right expects it from them , and hastens them to a compliance with it self . and this will proportionably flow down upon all parts , and persons concern'd in the test-act . if the major part of each distinct body of men in a nation shall not by their representatives freely chosen , or by the whole body it self summon'd to parliament upon the right of their peerage , conclude the whole , by their most duely weigh'd , and considered acts , presented to the supreme power , and impress'd by him , there can be no possible rest , quiet , or determination of humane affairs in any rational way , or method : and all this being of that nature , and so cautiously suspending , or preseerving , as in abeyance , and not extinguishing any right , it can never be said to destroy , nor so much as to submit to a precarious title , faction , or passion of parliament , * any right , much less the right of peerage , as being a right of blood and of inheritance . i come therefore to the bishops second reason . secondly it ought to be repealed , because of its dishonourable birth , and original ; it being the first born of oates his plot , and brought forth on purpose to give credit and reputation to the perjury . how far the wisedom of the nation in parliament shall concern it self for the honour of both the nation , and its parliaments to give reputation to the cross wounds it may seem to have receiv'd in that unhappy assair , i will not be so bold as to pry ; it being an ark of state that hath its secrets , and sacred retirements , nor at all wade in so invidious a matter ; but wholly wave the paragraph , in which it is handled ; onely i will consider how far a dishonourable occasion may give birth to a law , and the law it self still remain in honour ; and then remark upon the little interest the ( as the bishop calls it ) otesian plot may have in the test-act . as to the test , all laws have this dishonour in their original ( if we might allow things of that class , or rank to be originals ; ) to have such respect to the degeneracy of humane nature , that the apostle hath said ; the law is not made for a righteous man but for the lawless ; and it is a known maxime ; ex malis moribus bonae nascuntur leges . out of such manners as cou'd ne'r be said to have been good , good laws have yet been made : sic verè vertit — for grant the birth be base ; don't comets rise from fogs and vapours , 'fore they shine in skies ? and acts amazing by a pesant's son , as by a prince's , ha ve they not been done ? if so , sa . oxon is ( sai not the test is ) gone . — sic justè judicat ehmamp artnocas . aliàs drawde reverofmada . laws therefore are to be weigh'd by the serviceableness , and use they are of to the main ends of vertue , righteous ness and peace , and not by the foulness of their occasional originals . and therefore they have indeed a much higher original , if wise , vertuous and good laws ; and claim their descent from the exemplar-wisedom a nd goodness , and that eternal law of reason , truth and equity , which can never be stain'd , or embas'd by the particular occasions , upon which they are enacted , which give being to them no otherwise , than as those divine emanations exert and direct themselves against those contrary evils and vices which they forbid and punish : so that the birth , or original of this law is not to be inquir'd into ( suppose it oats's plot ) so low as oats's plot , but as the peace and safety of a community is provided for by it ; which is as the arteria magna , in that universal law of righteousness , as it concerns humane affairs , and as it is calculated for the support and security of the national religion , against the vsurpation of a foreign jurisdiction , a nobler part , than that any thing else can come in competition with it . it is then a very petty thing to weigh the goodness of a law by the next occasion of it ; and a manifest blunder upon a non cause for the true cause , to confound an occasion and an original together . let us then consider in the next place , what interest the ( so styl'd ) otesian plot hath in this law : for if in effect it should prove the first-born of that plot , the beginning , and excellence of its strength , and that it hath not a more excellent soul , and spirit , descending from above ; it might be in danger to be condemn'd to the same fate . but whoever considers the test it self , will not find the least cognation , or relation it hath to that plot , nor that any lineaments , or strokes of it enter into its composition : so that however it might receive occasion from it , yet the essentials of it are such sentiments , as the nation hath had for above the last hundred of years , and that it hath upon greatest judgment , reason and experience confirm'd it self in : and according to several emergencies added to its securities by law upon law , against the regurgitations of that usurpation upon it ; not barely because of such emergencies , but because of that grand reason , the very essence of popery hath given it : whether therefore the particular emergent hath had dimensions long and broad enough for the particular laws and constitutions which have been made , was not so much consider'd : but the whole nature of the evil fear'd , and provided against , being large enough to support such acts , it hath given reason to all such provisions ; and that was the danger of the roman religion resettling and re-instating it self in a protestant nation , as the english nation is and hath been for so great a space . thus this last act for the test , setting before it only that so full and comprehensive consideration of the increase and danger of popery in this nation , to which the former good laws had proved ineffectual , does therefore so enact as that act expresses . in all which there is not the least reference to the so much infam'd plot , nor any line looking toward it : till therefore there be a change in the very essential nature of popery , and a perfect nullity of all the fears arising from it made evident , there must be this , or that particular accidental cause quickning the legislative power of the nation to branch out it self into more and more , and further and further particular laws , that may more effectually reach the intended point , and be new in the particulars ; observing where former provisions were deficient and inefficacious : which new laws are not to be charged upon the lesser accidental causes , but on the irreconcileableness of popery , and its growth to the peace and welfare of a protestant nation . and so i have finished what i think necessary upon the bishop's second reason , to shew how inconcluding it is for the abrogating of the test. i proceed now to the third reason . the test ought to be repeal'd , because of the incompetent authority , by which it was enacted , for it is a law of an ecclesiastick nature , made without the authority of the church , contrary to the practice of the christian world in all ages , &c. 1. this reason rests upon these two principal pillars , that the power of making decrees concerning divine verities , is a legislative power , given as the highest act of government by christ's commission , to the officers of his own kingdom , upon which the whole fabrick of the christian church hath hitherto stood , and is to stand to the end of the world , and without which , it must run into confusion ; and that to entrench upon this prerogative of the holy catholick church , is to depose christ from his throne , by disowning , neglecting , and affronting his commission to his catholick church ; so that this power cannot be usurped without sacriledge , and blasphemy , and such a daring invasion of christ's kingdom , as that nothing more imports christian kings and governours , than to be wary and cautious , how they lay hands upon it . 2. that the bishops sitting in the house of lords , and ( to their shame ) consenting to this law , is not sufficient to make this law an act of church authority ; because it ought to have been first decreed by their own proper authority , without any lay concurrence and then to have come into parliament , and as they judged sit , to have been abetted with temporal penalties , a practice never violated , but by aposlates , and rebel parliaments . and lastly because particular bishops sit not in parliament by power deriv'd from our blessed saviour , but by the meer grace and favour of the king , so that the exercising any ecclesiastical authority in that place is scandalously to betray , as much as in them lies , the very being of a christian church , and profanely to pawn the bishop to the lord ; and lastly because the ecclesiastical power is by the law of england setled in convocation , and therefore to enact any thing of an ecclesiastical nature without their consent is to betray the rights of the church of england , as by law established in particular , as well as of the church catholick in general . but as a check and limitation to all this , the episcopal authour interposes ; the civil power may restrain the exercise of this ecclesiastical prerogative , as they shall judge meet for the ends of peace , and the interest of the common wealth , and punish it too at their own discretion , if it shall at any time entrench upon the power of the state , and it may prevent , or correct abuses . i have thus collected the strength of this whole reason without omitting any thing , i could think material ; i have also subjoyn'd the limitation , that it may be of the use the authour design'd it , and may also be consider'd in its place to our purpose . there are three expressions , i desire in modesty and reverence to this r. r. authour to draw a veil over . 1. that parenthetic ( to their shame ) viz. the bishop's shame , who consented to the test-law , because it seems so much to confine on speaking evil of dignities ; and for the same reason , 2 ly . upon that , ( except by apostates , and rebel-parliaments , ) as also because i would not know the direct meaning of those words , but go backward to cast a covering over them . 3. on those words , i draw the curtain ; ( profanely pawn the bishop to the lord ) lest they seem rather , fit to be retyr'd among the bishops ludicra . but to the main purport , and stress of the argument i shall undertake to rejoyn these assertions . 1. that there is no such legislative power given by commission from christ to his church , or made the foundation of it . 2. that all such pretensions of church-power drawn from the practice of the christian church , are very invalid . 3. that the law of the test is not a law of an ecclesiastick nature . 4. and if it were , the church of england hath done enough in convocation , and other church-acts to support it . 5. that the presence of the bishops in parliament not protesting against it , are sufficient proof of the two last assertions . 6. that according to the bishop's own limitation of church-power ; it must remain a good , and necessary law , and for which the parliament had competent authority . i begin with the first . 1. that there is no such legislative power , given by commission from christ to his church , or made the foundation of it , which may be demonstrated in this manner . this legislative power of the church is most contrary to that holy book , from whence we derive our christian sacred religion , and to the soundest reason guided by that ; for by that there is , nor can be any legislative power in matters of divine verity but what is immediately from heaven , either by voice from thence , or by the ministery of angels , or by immediate inspiration given to holy men , prophets and apostles , and consigned by them into the holy writings we call scriptures . all which after revelations are to be tryed , and tested by their compare with , and agreement to former revelations , as is most manifest in all parts of scripture ; and by the constant , and continual appeal of the old testament to the new : so that this prerogativ'd , legislative church , that is pleaded into so high and rampant a power , that all-seeming wavings of its authority must be an invasion of christ's kingdom , a deposing of him , an affronting his commission , smells strong of the pride , and ambition of that city , which , first , as a city , and then as a church hath always aspir'd , to have a kingdom over the kings of the earth ; as also of the luciferian ascent of the beast ; that carries it , with and upon which , i doubt not , the sacriledge , and blasphemy will be found : who exalts himself above all that is called god , or worshipped , who sitteth in the temple of god , shewing himself that he is god. but to us , there is but one law-giver , who is able to save and to destroy . one father , who is in heaven ; one master , who is christ , and all we are brethren ; one legislative-lord ; and the chiefest in his church are servants , ministring his word in the scriptures , the onely law of divine verities . and therefore in this prerogative-sense , dare not receive the title of masters , or fathers ; nor can those who receive the law of christ , made evident from the scriptures to be his law , by their ministry , upon such ministration yield them therefore the names of masters , or fathers in a legislative sense . for they know , they ought to preach christ the lord ; and themselves onely servants for christ's sake , that they have no dominion over the faith of christians , ( who are however called the laity , yet are christ's clerus , ) but only are ensamples of the flock who attends the motion of the chief shepherd , the lamb , christ jesus , whithersoever he goes , and will not follow strangers . princes , and states by light offer'd them by the ministerial labours , and services of the bishops , and elders of the church , who labour in the word , and doctrine are to direct their power according to that light they receive by such ministrations , but together , and not without their own search , into scriptures , and constant meditation therein . and the people are to obey in agreement with that law , and word of christ ; which they are to know for themselves in that light diffus'd by the preaching of the word to them in season and out of season , which , i say , they are to know for themselves , and not others for them , by the deep research of their own minds into scripture , to see whether those things are so , or not . for wisedom hath written to them , even to them , as may be seen by all the epistles of the apostles ; that they might know the certainty of the words of truth , and have their trust in the lord , and not an implicit faith in men , and might be able by apologies for the hope that is in them , to answer the words of truth to those , who send to them either in a way of advice , or challenge . whatever is contrary to this undoubted evidence of the word of god , and sound reason , seeing every one must give an account of himself to god , as well as those , who are set over them , who by faithfull offers of truth discharge themselves , whatever , i say , is so propos'd , as by a catholick church , and its prerogative , i affirm savours of that intoxicating cup of abominations in the hand of that sorceress , that calls her self the mistress of churches , and would sit the lady of the christian world , and of the power that bears it , who under pretence of the kingdom of christ undermines it , and hath , in the unsearchable judgment of god delay'd , thus long its appearance to all the world ; and is the baalam lofty prophet of that romish pergamus . 2. the pretended practice of the church of god in all ages , can give no presidency in this case , beyond what is thus asserted ; for in the times of the old testament , religious princes , did by the general advice , and doctrine of the prophets , and of those priests who kept their faith to the law of god , themselves govern , and reform according to that of which each king was to have a copy written by himself , which was to be with him , and he was to read it all the days of his life . that he might learn to fear the lord his god , and to keep his laws . and whereas in that precedent law , enquiry of the priest in the place god should choose , was commended ; it plainly insinuates , the divine responses , god gave at that time by the vrim , and thummim , immediately from himself were intended , but yet all was to be founded in the written law , there all was to be shown , and from thence to be learnt , or not to be receiv'd , no not under a power of seeming miiracles , deut. 12. in the first times of christianity , for three hundred years , there were no christian magistrates , who would wait for the churches oracle's . but for the determination of the church without a lay-concurrence , it is most apparently opposite to that grand instance of the first council , wherein the people ( if any ) distinguishingly styl'd the church ; and who made most manifestly one of the estates , ( if i may so express it ) in the whole conciliary management ; the apostles , the elders , the brethren ; and the whole consultation , and determination mov'd upon the poles of express scripture , as will be most visible to any enquirer into those conciliary acts ; for he that runs may read , acts 15. in the days of that first and most religious emperour constantine , although he , as all pious princes , and christians would , receiv'd light from the ministers of sacred truth , yet so that he us'd his own judgment together with it ; deploring the weaknesses he observ'd among these who seem'd to be pillars of light , but yet it must be acknowledg'd , that that apostasie , the mystery of iniquity , that began to work in the apostles days was well grown up , and advanc'd , and a legislative church was towring up its power in the christian world at that very time . but it is undoubted , there is nothing so ancient , as divine truth in the law , and in the testimony , consenting with that law of reason engraven in man's heart , and to these we must goe ; fot whatsoever speaks not according to these , there is no morning to it , nor from it ; but a night , even to a midnight , ensues upon it , what antiquity soever it pretends to . 3. that i may yet give a more direct answer to this reason , the test-act is not a law of an ecclesiastick nature ; for it is onely an exploration , and touch upon persons , whether they are romanists , or not : it is no canonical determination of the point of transubstantiation , it binds no decree with a spiritual , or ecclesiastick anathema , or excommunication ; which are of the essence of ecclesiastick laws , as they have been always solemniz'd , and ratified in the christian-antichristianizing world upon light occasions . but this test presumes two things , suppos'd before to be sufficiently certain . 1. that no romanist will deny his transubstantiation , nor consent , that his invocation of the virgin mary , and of other saints , and that the sacrifice of the mass is superstitious , and idolatrous . the test does not determine , nor pretend canonically to define of these things : it onely proposes this , as a certain discovery of the votaries of a foreign church ; nor does it mind to decide the truth of those matters : it is enough to it , to know , who do , or who do not assent to their presumed truth , and thereby to discover men , not to decree points of faith. 2. nor is it ecclesiastick , but purely civil , and pertaining to the state onely , whom it will judg safe to commit the affairs of this nation unto , and into what hands to entrust its interests ; and having by more than a hundred years experience , deemed it not safe for a protestant nation to be overgrown by a papal power , it hath thus resolved , and enacted ; not at that time enquiring after the truth of the things , concern'd in the test : but satisfied with the assurance , that a roman catholick ( as he is call'd ) will not assent to them , as they are there laid . which are here onely taken notice of , as matters of state ; and their doctrinal truth it supposes elsewhere to have been sufficiently ascertain'd , as shall be afterward consider'd . 4. for indeed the church of england hath both in convocation , in continual printed manifestations of its sense , in daily preachings , and ministrations of the truth of the word of god , abundantly , and beyond all controversie open'd , explained , and asserted concerning these things out of and according to scripture , so that not in a humane light , or determination , but in the very beams of scripture , and divine truth , which are plainly to be seen streaming from the fountain of light the word of god , there is warranty enough without any invasion upon christ's kingdom , or the rights of the officers of it , ( supposing them what we can suppose rhem ) for a parliament safely to proceed as it did ; supported by as many assurances , as it could desire ; that if the lips of the ministry of the church of england preserv'd knowledge , and that the law was to be enquired at its mouth ; the resolution of that church , in all those cases , was sufficiently known , and no injury could be done to it . 5. of this the presence of the bishops in parliament , not remonstrating , nor protesting against this law , his consenting ( however the author judges it to their shame ) are security enough : that they understood the test-law to be no invasion of the rights of the church , but according to the whole doctrine and government of it , as by law established . for seeing , as hath been before argued , every body , nor estate of men in parliament knew so quick and feelingly for themselves , and specially such a body as the episcopacy of a nation ; it can never be suppos'd they would , as by a common conspiracy , agree to betray their own rights and priviledges , having at hand always that freedom of entring their protestations of dissent . so that although it is acknowledg'd , they sit in parliament by the grace of the king , and by the constitution of english parliaments , and not by power deriv'd from christ , nor as a convocation according to the laws of england in that case ; yet it is always to be forethought that they sit with their understandings , with their consciences , with their senses , with their sentiments of self-preservation about them : and that therefore they would not be felones de se , by consenting to the destruction of their noblest rights ; and on account of which , they are judg'd worthy to sit as an estate , and to vote in parliament , viz. as bishops of the church of jesus christ. 6. but lastly , it can never be understood , but that according to the bishops own limitation , ( if that be the standard ) of church-power and praerogative , or his setting up another power and praerogative to mute it , the parliament have well done in this test-law . for seeing the civil power may restrain the exer●ise of ecclesiastical praerogative , as they shall judg meet for the ends of peace , and the interest of the commonwealth , and may punish it too , at their own discretion , if it shall at any time intrench upon the prerogative of the state , and that it may praevent or correct abuses ; who can determine , whether the states have not done according to what they might and ought to do , in preventing and correcting abuses : for if they may prevent and correct abuses , they must be able to judg of them ; they must determine when they ly , they must judge also of the best means to prevent them . and what more lyable to such judgment of abuses , and to undergo the best and most effectual methods of praevention , than the things to be declar'd against in the test ; as shall be manifestly prov'd in the following reason . and seeing that upon these very accounts it is notorious , that even in this nation church power and prerogative hath swoln beyond all bounds , and entrench'd with a vengeance upon the power of the state , why then may not the state continue the correction and punishment of it by after acts ( seeing the bishop allows these punishments at their own discretion ) and restrain and lock down men ? certainly all the avenues to such an exercise and notions again of that power , that they hav found in all ages so destructive to the peace and interest of the commonwealth . and here i cannot but reflect upon the strange irreconcileableness of the bishop's church-prerogative , and of the civil power , as he hath stated it . for that such a seeing judging prerogative and legislative power , that can alter , make decrees concerning divine verities , should not know how to keep within its own bounds , nor so to learn its power , but that it must be restrain'd for the ends of peace , and the interest of the commonwealth , and be punish'd too at discretion for its aptness to praesume , and to intrench upon the power of the state ; nay , and beyond all this , to be so extravagant , that its abuses may have need to be praevented and corrected . who can imagine , jesus christ should be so nearly concern'd in such a prerogative and legislative power , as to be disown'd , neglected , affronted , if that he be christ risen , and that the usurpation of it should lie so near sacriledge and blasphemy , as that his kingdom should be invaded , and himself deposed ? and on such an account , that it should be such a seeing and holy catholick church ; and yet that this civil power that is suppos'd to know so little in divine verities , may bind its hands , punish , praevent , correct its abuses . what must christ , so closely importuned in it , suffer in the mean time ? what kind of kingdom and power is here allow'd in the mean time ? what governour would accept such a power as this of christ's ? or how can the king of kings , lord of lords , prince of the kings of the earth , be such an underling ? certainly this is is a precarious power , with a witness : surely in this state of things , there must be a most profane pawning the bishop indeed to the lord , or how can ever one firmament bear two such suns , or the consciences of man ever be at rest between them both ? or serv two such masters ? they must adhaere to one , and despise the other ; but since the bishop must be reverenced as a man of sense and reason , certenly it cannot be the roman holy catholic church , that may be thus treated by the civil power ; nor is it any protestant civil prince , or state that hath these powers , but only a caesar , or state of the roman character , image , and superscription hath this power , and only on protestant churches under their dominion . and so i pass with the fatigue of this confounding , perplexing reason , and com to the last but longest reason , which i shall yet but in brief consider . the fourth reason for which the test-act ought to be repealed , is , because of the uncertainty and falshood of the matters contained in the declaration it self , as , first , that there is no transubstantiation in the sacrament of our saviour's body and blood. and secondly , that the invocation of saints , and of the mother of god , is idolatrie . this reason so plainly divided by the bishop into its two parts , that of transubstantiation , and that of invocation of saints , and of the mother of god , must be distinctly considered . but before i proceed upon either of them , i must needs object , that this test is not fairly quoted , for in so great a concern every word ought to have its due place , and no pretence of keeping the substance , will justifie the variation of an iota from the very letter , except my apprehension exceedingly deceive me : the sence is much more injured , than the letter is varied : indeed the author hath been so fair , as to prefix the text of the act , that his unfair repetition may be convinced by it ; but the unwary , or unthinking reader , may easily slide into errour by it , one being in the title-page , where it may miss being considered , the other in the body of the book . observ then the difference betwixt the text of the test and the bishop's quotation ; the test runs thus : i believe there is no , &c. the bishop quotes as a proposition , there is no ▪ &c. it may be a much more uncertain proposition , and more liable to falshood , to asfirm , there is no transubstantiation in the sacrament of our saviour's body and blood , than so say , i do believe , there is none ; and so proportionably , i believe , is to be supplied to the second member of the declaration , viz. and i believe , that the invocation or adoration of , &c. now although , i make no doubt , that every christian ought to be fully assured of the propositions themselves , to be declared in the test ; yet , plain and down-right doctrinal propositions are not the proper subjects of solemn sincere profession , testification , and declaration in the presence of god. but such solemn sincere professions , testifications , and declarations , properly fall upon the belief of a man's mind ; which he knows , and hath judgment of , as a rational man , becaus they are within him ; for the apostle tells us , the spirit of a man knows the things that are within him . so that a man's belief , that is within him , may be wel declared and testified , even as all matters of sence and of trust ? and becaus they are within him ▪ known onely to himself ; there are therefore many just occasions to declare and testifie it to others : of which the denial of lawful authority , as a qualification for places of trust and power , are justly to be accounted among the principal . and this very observation , ( as it is plain , and grounded on undeniable evidence by a compute of the words of the test , set down by the bishop himself , in the title-page , and fourth reason , page 9. ) does indeed make vain , frivolous , and of no possible avail , or so much as significancie . all that follows , as to the test , which is the thing in quaestion , and under debate , and brings it into this narrow compass , whether persons so devoted to the faith of the church of rome , may for the ends of peace , and the interest of a protestant common-wealth , be secluded from power , and trust by the consent of the major part of their own particular bodies , and of each other body , or estate of the nation , and the supreme prince assenting , in so considerable and solemn an act , as an act of parliament must needs be ; which hath been already discours'd . for which soever side of the propositions should be true , yet stil , what a man within himself believes , he truly knows , and truly may declare and testifie : and the business of the test is not to determine , as hath been said , which part of either of the proposions is true ; but what belief each person admitted to trust , and power is of ; that so the nation , as protestant , may consult its own safety against the growth of popery into a national strength and interest , and further confirms all that hath been said , that it is no ecclesiastic act , but a pure perfect magistratic act , as the administring an oath in all other cases concerning the trust of matters of faith is . so that the affirming , that those two propositions are by this law to be solemnly and sincerely in the praesence of god , protested , testified and declared , is a down-right unfaithfulness ( not to say , out of reverence to the author , falshood ) in the very sight of the sun , in the sight , if i may so speak , of the frontispiece of the book ; which title-page gives of necessity the lye to this ninth page ; and is enough to discredit , and to call into just suspicion , the badness of the whole cause , that is so insincerely handled by a person of such a character of dignity , and sacredness of office , as a christian bishop , who ought to do so much otherwise . but this is not all the unfaithfulness of the episcopal author , in recounting the test , he is arguing against ; for whereas the declaration in the act runs thus : i believe , that in the sacrament of the lord's supper , there is not any transubstantiation of the elements of the bread and wine into the body and blood of christ , &c. the bishop represents his proposition thus : that there is no transubstantiation in the sacraments of our saviour's body and blood. now it is easie for every person , that does but in the lest apply his mind to it , to perceive , that the test leaves it free to every person to frame any mystical , spiritual , analogical , figurative sense in his own thoughts concerning transubstantiation ; and which may sufficiently satisfie and exhaust the sense of more than most words of the greek fathers import , for it is observabl , they have no word strictly greek , for transubstantion . and onely foreprize's that so monstrous contradiction to all our faculties , is the transubstantiation of the elements into the body and blood of christ. and whereas the test runs thus : and that the invocation and adoration of the virgin marie , or any other saint , and the sacrifice of the mass , as they are now used in the church of rome , are superstitious and idolatrouus . the bishop thus : that the invocation of the mother of god , and of saints , is idolatrous . leaving out adoration , and as in the church of rome , and for superstitious and idolatrous , putting in the word , is idolatrous . but although greater exactness in this proposition , had been more becoming ; yet , i must confess in my own sense , the amount is the same . these things being thus adjusted , how empty of sound sense and reason must that tragical harangue , that follows , be in ; of the monstrousness , and inhumaneness of the barbarity , that could never have entred into the thoughts of any man , but the infamous author , to oblige the whole nobility of a nation , to swear to the truth of such abstruse and uncertain propositions , which they neither do , nor can , nor ought to understand ; and this upon the penalty of forfeiting the priviledges of their birth-right . of the same nature is , that which comes after , for what immediately follows , i will be , as uncertain in , as the argument it self is , as also in the two famous burgesses of oxon. but those words , ( viz. what is meant by transubstantiation is altogether unknown to the nobility , and gentry of the nation , being onely the wars between school-men , who have quarrelled about nothing more , than the notion of transubstantiation : and that therefore , it is more uncapable to impose upon the nobility , and gentry of the nation , to abjure a thing that is morally impossibl for them to understand ; and therefore it must be a profane affront to almighty god in whose presence they swear , and shews men will swear to any thing before the searcher of hearts , rather than lose any worldly interest ) are to be cast into the main heap . together with all this , an appeal is subjoyn'd to the honourable members of both houses , whether they have any distinct idea , or notion in their minds , about what they renounce ; and that if every man gave his own account of transubstantiation , it would be a babel ▪ this is what is declaim'd with relation to the first proposition , on which fallacie the historical account of transubstantiation , design'd certainly on purpose to amuse , for it doth not add one cubit to the stature of the argument , above , and beyond what is here summ'd up . taking therefore the words of the test , as they stand in the test it self ; i will sum up the answer in these two heads . i. that all the abstruseness , darkness , and difficultie in the notion of transubstantiation , and this bishop's amusing historie of it , doth not in the lest prejudice the reasonableness of the test , but make it more reasonable . ii. that the very point of transubstantiation is the most reasonabl of all others , to settle the test upon , and the more reasonable , because of the difficultie of that notion . 1. let the first be consider'd with relation to the most unknowing , and uninquiring men of all , who can be suppos'd to be concern'd in the taking the test. and after the word made common english to them , which very ordinary use does to most men in the nation , much more to any likely to be concern'd , whether they can sound the word , or hammer the notion or not , is not material ; for still , what is more easy then to declare their belief according to their senses ; and that the bread and wine that they see before the words of consecration , and in which they are agreedly not mistaken , are the same bread , and wine after consecration . who would be afraid to declare , and profess , they believe it so ? and that it is unchang'd , vntransubstantiated into the flesh , and bloud of a human body . let a man be unprejudic'd , unprepossess'd , and what the least shade of doubt could fall upon him in this matter ? call in thousands together , to observe the progress from the beginning to the end of the celebration ; and would they not consent upon oath , that they fully believed there was no such transubstantiation ? let but their minds be free , undisturb'd , unperplex'd , and the whole world of touch , of taste , of sight , of smell , of hearing ( so far as hearing can have interest in the trial ) would be at perfect agreement concerning it , their minds and understandings judging by the senses alike in all . let such persons hear there are many disputes , and much variety of opinions concerning it ; and how little would it affect them , except with wonder at the folly and madness of any difference ? and let them know , some of the wisest and most learned men in the world , are of their opinion , or rather of their knowledge , by their senses , although there are others of a contrary opinion , men of name too for knowledg and learning ; and it is easie to know whose minds they would be of , viz. of theirs whose learning and senses go together . thus let the thing be brought within the verge of scripture-judgment , and upon that so very controverted ; this is my body , and discussed before the most plain and inartificial apprehensions ; and let the general manner of scripture expressing it self oft in familiar figures be laid before them : they would easily conclude on the side of their senses , and that scripture intended no violence on their faith , against their senses , on the side of so incredible a change of the elements into a humane body . nothing but the charms or inchantments rather of a false religion , and the sorcery of it , which are the things to be discover'd by the test , the slavery of an implicit faith , ( except under the terror of a severe persecution , for a contrary perswasion ) can endanger any mans falling into such an unaccountable , wilful , professed blindness . the test therefore requires not onely the easiest , most unperplexed assent , belief , and declaration , but that which all mankind with violence runs into ( if not bewitcht with superstition ) upon the lest motive of apprehension about the matter . 2. if sense goes thus far with the plainest and most unthinking men , how much more doth reason and rational faith assure the thinking and intelligent ? who not onely by sense determine the bread is bread , and the wine wine ; but know , it can be no other , and the whole circle of absurds , that crowd in upon the change into the body and blood of christ , that have been so often arang'd against such a figment , encompass them , that with highest reason and assurance , they can declare their belief , as the law of the test requires them to do . whatever then may be the various shapes this proteus , or camelion of transubstantiation hath put on throughout the long historie of the metamorphos'd notion , whatever dress of representation , the eloquence of the fathers , the canon of the ecclesiastics , or the difficiles nugae or the vain curiosities and subtilties of the school-men have attyr'd it in ; the sincere honest mind , and the intelligent christian , leaving all the cramping difficulties of transubstantiation to its slaves , can declare freely with the test , there is not any transubstantiation of the elements of bread and wine , in the lord's supper , into the body and blood of christ. whatever spiritual communion there may be between christ in his death , and the true believer , is most humbly in the mean time owned and prayed for : which is the first thing that was to be shewn . the second head is , that the very point of transubstantiation , is of all others the most reasonable to settle the test upon , and the more reasonable in all regards , because of the so exceeding difficulty of the notion . 1. what can a civil power have greater indignation against , or be more willing to settle upon , as an exclusive test of all from places of honour , trust , and power ; than the being vassals to such an imposture as destroys all the truth and certainty that is in the world ? who can be believ'd upon oath , ( which the apostle says is the end of all strife ) if there be no more credit to sense , then that bread may be a humane body , and wine blood , though it hath all the evidences to sense possible , it is what it judges it to be , and that is bread ? and what more heed can be given to reason , if its main foundations can be thus overturn'd , so that all the principles of government , and humane converse , are overthrown ? what may not such bigots be screwed into , who leave themselves naked of the defences of sense and reason , at the command of a tyrannic church , and pope , and become meer tools in such hands ? who can concredit to them the interest of their country , who couch down like asses under such a burden , and especially for a notion so dark and slippery , that no one knows where to have it ? and what would become of humane commerce , if such things multiplied ? 2. upon transubstantiation , the test-act doth most deservedly fall ; because , when the foundations of general reason , and common sense are laid , religion , and the reason , and honour of that , as it is national , comes next to be consider'd ? that it may bear up it self , and invite both the people of the nation , and even the nations round about , to a just veneration of it : but transubstantiation being made the great , and most tremendous mystery of the roman religion , yet carrieth in the very judgment of sense , the countenance , mean , and appearance of the most notorious cheat , and juggle , that the name of religion ever offered to the world ; for there being a most contemptible , poor , and low outside onely , without the least of power , or puissance , or any the thinnest resemblance of a miracle ; demands a belief of the highest , and most constant miracle , daily to be performed by the most profligate oftentimes , and most ignorant of mankind , and depending upon their intention too , which may defeat the miracle . all this dishonours the very name of christian religion , and is so heavy , and intollerable a gabel , excise , and tax upon the religious sense of mankind , as must needs eat out the whole life , power , and reverence of it . and therefore it is worthy the notice , prevention and correction of so grand an assembly , as the king , the lords , spiritual and temporal , and commons of the nation met in parliament ; and the seclusion of all persons from so sage and awful a convention , who are under so great a slavery , as not to renounce it : for as moses testifies , the wife laws of a nation in religion give it an estimation of a wise , great , and honourable nation . if therefore a parliament secures the rights and properties of the nation , from any impositions upon their estates , but with their own consent : how justly may it doe the same against any illegal impositions upon their faith ? and whereas this transubstantitaion is attempted to be brought into parallel , and placed in the rank of other great mysteries of the christian religion , as of the blessed father , son , and spirit , one god , of the hypostatical vnion , and incarnation of jesus christ , besides the intrinsick difference of the one , and of the other : there is this vast distance , that those supreme revelations are heavenly , divine , retir'd in meditation , holy rational discourse , and spiritual adorations . but this of transubstantiation , while it does nothing , offers nothing to sense ▪ to reason , or so much as to faith from divine revelation , but by gross letter , a figurative , spiritual proposition into condensating , pressing , and incrassating , it pretends to a real operation , or conversion of bread into the body without any such thing . but yet , as if such a thing were seen to be indeed done ; mercenary priests play all the tricks of gesture , posture , elevation , geniculation , with the whole train of attendant frauds , too many to be mention'd , upon the score of a dull coarse cheat even in handicraft , and legerdemain in mechanicks . all which imposture is indeed , not onely morally , but naturally impossible ever to be understood . 3. it ought above all other points in popery , to be the subject of a test-act , because it hath above all other points of popish falshood , been made the test of vassalage and slavery , and as it were that very mark of the beast joyn'd with the idolatrie of adoration , and image-worship ; and of the receiving his name , and worshipping his image , which all must receiv , or be kill'd ; and none must buy or sell , that the psuedo spiritual excommunication may be pursued with secular anathema's upon all who will not bear this cognisance of the bestian usurpation . in short , this hath been the central point , from which , and into which have flowed all the cruelties , persecutions , massacres , deluges of bloud that have been pour'd out : bloud of men , women , and children , sacrific'd at this altar , that have made it indeed an altar of bloud , an altar where real flesh and bloud have been offered , and to say , the bread and wine have been so transubstantiated into the body and bloud of martyrs , were much nearer truth . here have been the so-much unheard-of barbarities and inhumanities , that would make a historie of transubstantiation truth , indeed , could it be had , worth th' having , to justifie the test , and such a one , that certainly could never upon the account of so blessed a religion , and of a sacrifice of such infinite grace , as that of jesus christs offering himself once for all for mankind , have entred into the heart of any man ; were it not that such a very detestable bestial power , that bears at this very time , and hath long born a citie , or false church , in which wil be found the bloud of prophets , and apostles , and that is drunk with the bloud of saints , and of the martyrs of jesus , is made known unto us in the revelation . now all this is matter of known historie , and of evident fact ; how justly therefore is power , and trust , endeavour'd to be surprized by a protestant parliament , from such hands that dare not disown principles so doub le dyed in bloud , on the account of which such butcheries , and burnings of men alive , have been committed ; that the so mis-stil'd barbaritie and inhumanitie of the test-act compared herewith , is not only mercie andhonor to the persons concerned , but a monument of greatest equitie and philanthropie or love to humane nature , to endeavour to extinguish out of the nation the very principles of so much bloud-guiltiness , and bloud-thirst , of the greater heinousness , becaus if the bishop be to be credited in the case , it was for not believing a transubstantiation , which it was morally impossible for those martyrs to know , and such abstrusities which they neither did , nor could , nor indeed ought to understand . 4. to press and force a litteral sense upon the holy scriptures free familiar condescension to our weakness , in expressing things of a high spiritual nature in such language , as we in humane bodies most easily take things into our minds by , as in the sacrament , the real spiritual union , and communication of the value , vertue , and efficacy of the sacrifice of christ himself , and in the union of , and communion , and communication of his spirit to us , is express'd by eating his body , and drinking his bloud : now i say , to force , a litteral sense upon this , is such a piece of rudeness , barbaritie , and ingratitude , that if the same measure were meeted to all other parts of scripture , would even in the judgment of those very men , who are either atheists or bigots in this matter , not only turn it into horrible , and abominable burlesque , but even martyr and murther those two witnesses , as some have expounded them * . to vindicate therefore , those sacred volumes , the pandects of our most holy religion , from having to do with so mid-night , and sphingian a riddle , in so plain , and merciful an institution , so humble , and even domestic ( in a spiritual sense ) as the lord's supper is ; a riddle , set on work to so much cruelty and bloud-shed , is worthy the spirit of a truely christian , and nobly english senate , and to set the danger of its return into use , at the utmost impossibility , humane providence could attain , without the expectation of miracle . for what is meant by transubstantiation , the bishop himself says , is altogether unknown and uncertain , especially to the persons chiesly concern'd , viz. the nobility and gentry of the nation ; and which they neither do , can , nor ought to know : what obligation can they then have to believe it , except with such a blind faith as all religion and reason abhors ? however , if they have no faith concerning so fugitive a thing , that like a shadow , cannot be catch'd , or like the phantom of a body that hath no flesh and bones to be seen and felt , as all bodies have , and as christ , as it were prophetically , expos'd his body to the experiment of , when it was really there , that no such imposture concerning it should be palm'd upon the world : i say , if the nobility and gentry have no faith of such a thing , why may they not profess and declare , they do not believe it ? for the bishop seems either not to be awake , or to dissemble a slumber , that his discourse of mens swearing to any thing , his burlesque on the famous burgesses of oxon , and his appeal to the honourable members concerning their idea's of transubstantiation , and the babel thence arising , [ the whole notion is indeed a babalism , or pertaining to babylon the great ] had been very good , if the test had requir'd them to declare their belief of such a transubstantiation . but now his arguments hunt counter , and impeach the roman tyranny of horrid murthers upon persons , for not believing what they neither do , can , nor ought to know , what they can so hardly pronounce the sound of , much less hammer the sturdy sullen notion it self : for who can know what there is no knowledge of ? but what more innocent than to declare , when lawfully requir'd , though before the searcher of hearts , a man does not believe what he cannot nor ought to know , nor so much as anvil a notion of ? if it were never so true , real , knowable , and worthy to be believed , any one might , without guilt , ( when justly demanded to do so ) declare he did not believe it , while he knew it not so as to find reason to believe it ; it were double hypocrisie to do otherwise : and all the bishop's arguing and storying , can never make it otherwise . indeed the whole recoyles upon himself , and dashes out the brains of all he hath writ upon it ; which , sure , he crasly oversaw , or thought all his readers were such fools as to be couzen'd with the gloss . for if the infidelitie were ever so culpable , it were a dutie , when adjur'd by a law to declare it ; but how can the infidelitie be blam'd , when after the bishop's hunting down the notion through the whole historie of the controversie , he hath prey'd only upon a ghost , miss'd of all comprehension , and he pronounces the summ , and result of all to be what is meant by that transubstantiation is a thing altogether uncertain and unknown ; and there is no one thing in which christendom more both agrees and differs ; all parties agree in the thing , and differ in the manner . now it so happens , the test was so sagaciously compos'd , though it might lawfully have done much more , that it modestly leaves the thing free , and requires only to declare a belief of such manner of transubstantiation , as of the elements of bread and wine , into the bodie and bloud of christ ; and requires the declarers own belief alone , and nothing of censure upon any others belief in this branch of the test ; which surely any man may lawfully make , that makes it truly : and seeing the whole issue of the notion is scepticism , the bishop himself being judg , ( and what can the man do that comes after the ishop ? ) may not every man then say , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , i do not comprehend it , therefore i do not believe it . indeed if there were revelation for it , like what there is concerning the father , word , and spirit , one god ; concerning the incarnation and hypostatic vnion of the eternal word with humane nature , leaning not on figurative expression , but plain assertion , wrought into all the discourse , and whole argument of scripture , all disputes were silenc'd . but when there is no pretext of revelation , but such a manner of speaking , as if it were press'd alike into a literal sense , through the whole book of god , it must overthrow all theologie . to refuse then a figure there where it is so absolutely necessary , that else christ must eat his own flesh , while it remain'd entire before the apostles , and drink his own bloud , while it was circulating in his veins , and no amaze nor so much as question upon it , is such a setting the scripture to be broken upon the wheel , such a barbarity , as exceeds a thousandfold all the barbarities and inhumanities spoken of throughout the bishop's whole book : especially when our lord declares in a like manner of speaking , and doubts upon it ; his words were spirit and life , and the flesh profited nothing . why then should men bring the scripture to the engine , to torture it into the confession of what ( as god speaks ) never came into his heart ? and so i may fairly dismiss the bishop's longsom historie of transubstantiation , seeing the mouth of his canon turns upon himself for what he can ; and what should a man be shie of in declaring his non-belief of what is against all the sense and reason of mankind , what hath no ground in revelation , and what all the wits and subtilties the canonists and school-men , yea the very councils of the roman vassalage can , when set upon the utmost stretch , make nothing of , but a meer babel , if we may believe the bishop , in what he determines upon the whole search in favour of it . not like solomon's conclusion of the matter into the whole of man , but like the conclusion of babel , all was jargon , nonsense , confusion , and rubbish ; and worse than that , the conclusion will be like that of babylon the great , a perpetual desolation and burning . they therefore who have like slaves bor'd their ears to this spiritual egyptian slavery , and under the plague of its darkness to be even felt , how just is it to disengage them from taking the rights of their prince and country into their trust , whether their contented slavery rise from some weak part , or a worse depravedness , which inclines their always bowed down backs , and their eyes laden with slumber under such a monstrous bigottism . i come therefore to consider of the second proposition , which , however it runs in the bishop's text , is thus express'd in the test : and that the invocation or adoration of the virgin mary , or any other saint , and the sacrifice of the mass , as they are now used in the church of rome , are superstitious and idolatrous . in which , although i confess in my own judgment , the very extremity , as of sense , that the words can reach , are supported by the demerit of the things declared against : yet , because it is a test , publickly offered , the refusal of which suspends so great an interest , as all share in government , as the bishop expresses it . it will not be unfit to observe all the lenitives , that are by the prudence of the composers , ( whoever they were , it makes no matter ) contriv'd into it . 1. therfore , i do believe is prefix'd to the whole test , by common equity of construction to be supplyed . i do believe the first proposition , that in the sacrament , &c. and in the second , i do believe , that the invocation , &c. now it is evident , a man may swear to his own belief , if he knows he does really so believe , although he be mistaken in the grounds of his belief , because it is onely matter of fact within himself . 2. there is a limitation , as these things are us'd , and now us'd in the church of rome , whether by express command , or by approbation , or connivence ; so that the very grossness and stupidity of the most dull and ignorant , who stick in the very thick matter , and are able to extricate themselves , as the finer wits pretend to do , are to be taken into that vsage , and that most meritoriously , seeing if the church of rome leads such unwary , and unapprehensive persons in obedience to it , to the very brink of the precipice into so deep , and impure a mud , and that so unnecessarily ; it is to be chang'd with the vsages , as in it self . and then those words of the test , as it is now used ; signifies the first beginnings of these things were not so fresh , as now they are arriv'd to be . 3. in that , the word superstitious is first set , as the lesser , and most undoubted , and then not the downright full-out word idolatry , but idolatrous . it takes off the full blow of the censures , for idolatry imports a great danger , suspicion , and nearness to idolatry , but not absolute idolatry it self . and this the bishop ought in all candid dealing to have taken notice of , and to have allowed the caution , with which the test is worded ; for the stabbing , and cut-throat word idolatry is not used , and so the piquancy of that his remark false . but letting slip all things that do not enter into the substance of the matter , it is first to be observed , that absolutely and in earnest , all that dreadful representation of the punishment of idolatry in this world , is disown'd by all sober christians : and those rigid laws , or any such zelotic spirit of elias , as among the jews on the account of idolatry , are reversed under the milder temper , and more moderate climate of christian religion , and the compassionate spirit of it , as repeated by our saviour expresly in those words to the disciples , that were for demanding fire from heaven upon the samaritans , luke 9.54 . to which our lord rejoyned , ye know not what spirit ye are of : the son of man came not to destroy mens lives , but to save them ▪ we disown all such torrid enthusiasm where-ever it is found , upon this authority , and such ravagings upon the lives of men meerly for their ( notwithstanding so great ) delusions in so plain a point of divine worship , are not so much as thought of in the test : cruelties and inhumanities of that kind , are left as the proper inheritance of the idolatrous , who indeed cut throats , and cause innocent persons to pass through the fire alive , in the rage of their moloch-sacrafice : and i am fully perswaded the principal end of the test-act was to secure the lives and fortunes of a protestant nation from the fury and blood-thirstiness of that name of religion , by which it is as much known ( as the scarlet and purple it is arraied in ) and that in the historie of some ages past , and so cannot but be still suspected . the prevention indeed of such , the public practise of those superstitions and idolatrousnesses , is worthy the care of a protestant magistracy to prevent , and to take care the contagion may not spread , much less that a protestant kingdom should come under the girdle of its ministerial government , ( although with all loyalty , it owns their soveraign , according to the christian law , and of the nation ) and then for to set such bounds to it , as may most indemnifie it self . but for the securities of divine justice upon idolatry , whenever they com to be manifested ; they wil be just , and bring their conviction along with them ; which may be speedier than men are aware , the measure of iniquity growing now full , as of more then one god , is idolatry , so of more than one mediator is a parallell idolatry . and as letting fall any glances of respect upon any creature , person , or thing , angel , or diamon , sun , moon , or stars , or the inferiour creatures , as partial gods conveying the benifits of the supreme god to us , is foul idolatry : so any partial or inferiour mediators , are alike idolatry , under the gospel . and as the making to our selves any likeness either in heaven above , or the earth beneath , &c. as a medium to worship god by : so the making to our selves any likeness of the mediator ; ( for though we had known him after the flesh , yet ( saith the apostle ) we know him so no more . ) are alike idolatrous . how certainly then are the invocations of the virgin , of saints idolatrous , as giving them a share of the incommunicable mercy , omnisciency , omnipresence , seeing they are not visible to us , we cannot speak with them at certain times or places , we know them not , we know not they know us ; there are no kinds of communion between us ; a vail of thick darkness is spread betwixt us , which nothing but infinity can pierce . the infinity of the father , the infinity of the mediator , god-man : men indeed whom we see , whom we converse with , to whom we can make our selves and our condition known , we are allowed by god to address , to give and receive mutual religious respects , and of civility and kindness , according to the stations of honour and subordination we stand in one to another . but how both senseless , and idolatrous , would it be with hope of good to pray to any person upon earth , at great , or even at the smallest distance one from another , where no communication passes by word , messages , and letters , as in our private closets , and thoughts ; this were to make them , as god omniscient , omnipresent . and to pray to saints or angels , as mediators , is idolatry committed against the mediator , as if he had not that whole sum of mediatorial mercy , grace , priviledges in himself . how certainly then are their invocations continually us'd at rome , not only superstitious , but idolatrous : and indeed all superstition is idolatry , against the second commandment ; devising an image , a likeness to go to god by them . how certainly are those abundance of images , pictures , statues , representations , us'd at rome : their incensing , bowing , kneeling , uncovering the head , to images and pictures , us'd at rome , idolatrous ? for even job's mouth kissing his hand , was an indication sufficient of an enticed heart . their elevation , adoration , geniflexian , given to the bread , as the body of christ , are of the same guilt , seeing christ was never worshipped bodily on earth , when his apostles were daily with him , but in the emanations of his divinity , how much more ( now we are to know him no more after the flesh ) therefore are we not to worship him bodily , not in an imaginary transubstantiation of the elements ) into flesh : doth not he abhor such a worship ? for whatever we do in pretence of worship to god and christ , that is not either the pure issues of that law of the mind , or of the natural conscience it self , or is revealed to us in his word : the worship ( call it how you will , dulia , or an inferiour worship ) not so warranted , passes before god for no other , but superstition and idolatry . even the worship of the man christ jesus onely , as united to the eternal word , is justified by divine revelation : so tender and severe a thing is the worship of the holy jealous god , who as he is separated from all creatures in his purity and perfection , so in his worship , and tne manner of his worship appointed only by himself . and so holy , holy , holy , and infinitely separate from all creatures is iehovath the mediator , with whom none can be named ; even as none can know but by the revelation of the father . all worship therefore given to creature-mediators , all worship given to him not according to his word , is but superstitious and idolatrous in his account . how near therefore is it to the blasphemy , of which the author confesses , idolatry is a principal instance ; when he speaks of the cherubins being worshipp'd ; who indeed , had by god's immediate command , a place of attendance , by the mercy-seat : this type of christ , over which god filling the tabernacle , and so the temple after with his glory , that none could enter , and so only gave a remaining symbol of his presence there ; but likewise of god to be seen ; but the people are warn'd over and over , to take notice they saw no likeness or similitude of god ; nor is there the least shadow of any direction of worship to those cherubins ; but to that god , who was pleas'd to promise his presence there , where his glory had appear'd , in christ the propitiation ; so that by pure spiritual acts , they might pray towards that place , call'd by his name , without any prophaning god by sense : from which he is always in an infinite retirement , for sense is the foundation of idolatry . and agreeably what was in the holy of holies , not being seen , was a warning to retire all into a spirituality , and a sense of the incomprehensibleness of god , the enjoyment of him being in pure spirituality . and as false it is , that the scripture speaks onely of the idolatry of worshipping the heavenly body . for from the heights above , to what is most below , the changing of the glory of the incorruptible god , with any corruptile image , or the worship directed by the mediation of any image , is abomination to him , as in numberless places of scripture ( besides the second commandment ) particularly duet . 4.16 . rom. 1.23 . for that i can hardly believe my eyes in reading the bishop's definition of idolatry , and so it is as to the redeemer , or one mediator , who is not to be worshipped , by any image of his humanity , nor by so despicable a thing as bread , which he made only the element of a spiritual communication of himself , as a most familiar emblem , without the least design of worship to it , most abhorred by him . most false it is , therefore , that there is no idolatry if men do not worship images of false gods , or make corporeal images of his divine nature : for angels , thô his servants , and saints departed , become false gods , and names of blasphemy , when worshipped with any sort of worship , as the apocaliptick angel testifies , chap. 21. v. 22. and the host so worshipped , is the symbol of a false god , as turn'd into a likeness , and image , before the jealous god , and mediator , who will have all pure spirituality in the worship of them . and yet in the mean time , i must acknowledge that the bishop hath rightly observed concerning that idolatry , which he is willing to allow to be idolatry , viz. the worship of the heavenly bodies ( and i am sure it will follow of all other idolatry , that it is to be proportionably admeasur'd to ) it is an iniquity to be punished by a judge , viz. by the civil magistrate . and this determination concerning idolatry , is recorded in that admirable book of natural religion , the book of job . now the laws of natural religion are irreversible , and unchangeable ; so that were it not that in the great degeneracie of humane nature , the generality of the nations of the world were early drench'd , and even plung'd in this great evil , natures laws had always so prevail'd : whereas , alas , too too soon that government grew to weak too establish it self ; and were that government , the government of the law , written in mans heart restor'd , it must proceed with all efficacy to the extirpating this evil ; and where it was so much restored , as among the jews , and enforced with further positive and ceremonial sharpness of laws , the rigors on offenders were so great , as the bishop has recounted : but yet the mercy of the gospel , and of christian religion , is such , that although in governments able and equal for it , there ought to be no abatement of severity against the sin it self , yet there is by christ , a relaxation , as to persons lives , where the most guilty circumstances of presumption , obstinacy , danger of bad example , do not inflame the account of the evil : all means of conversion and reformation being first used ; which is a great justification of the lawfulness , and necessity of the test , in a protestant government . nevertheless , the generality of the sin , hath been at no time too big for divine vengeance ; but that it hath appeared from heaven upon idolatrous powers , and nations , when he saw good ; and the time is approaching , when a better state of the renewed world growing on , will , by degrees , but with signal vials powred out upon the whole race of idolaters and their idolatries , make way for the perfection of that renovation , and such a thing as idolatry will not in one single example be endured . for satan , that old serpent , that hath deceiv'd the nations into it so long , will be seal'd up into his own abyss at the same time . but this hath been by way of digression . it is time to return now to the just remarks , that are to be made upon the bishop's discourse upon idolatry ; so contriv'd , as to lead the unthinking , yea , the not closely observant reader , thorough a variety of matter , far off from suspecting the roman worship of idolatries , where yet scripture-prophesie hath settled it upon its own base , in that land that is spiritually called shinar , or mystical babylon : his discourse , indeed , is blended sometimes with better , that it may convey more artificially the intollerably bad , sometimes with things doubtful and uncertain , that the notoriously false may hope to skulk among them . i cannot , according to the brevity i have resolv'd , retail to the reader , so ambagious , or tedious an account of idolatry . there are two things among his own notions , that if he had taken his measures by , they would have steerd him much better , viz. first , the observation of the great care god took by all his dealings with his people , descendants from abraham , to secure them by the mosaick mediatorship in the acknowledgment of the one god , creator of heaven and earth , the universal and most natural standard against idolatry , together with those particular assurances of himself to them ; by his covenant with abraham , by bringing them out of the land of egypt , speaking to them out of the cloud , and fire on mount sinai , by his filling the tabernacle with his glory , which is especially to be remark'd , both in moses's tabernacle , and solomon's temple , as being the true reason of the worship toward the holy of holies . and secondly , the observation of the sabbath , as a peculiar commemoration of the creation , as also of the further manifestation of the same true god , creator of heaven and earth , who was so particularly the god of abraham's posterity . had these two observations , together with the types , which the episcopal author , with dr. spencer , and other learned men , not without reason , make fences between israel and the idolatrous nations , and their idolatries ; or , as the apostle calls it , partition-wall ; these would have led to the one mediator jesus christ , who is that very propitiation and mercy-seat , of which , that in the holy of holies was but the type , and for which type sake the shecinah , or glory once came , and sate in its filling the temple ; as between the cherubims , or attendant angels , simbolycally represented in an adoring posture , stooping down , and prying upon the mercy-seat , as that type of christ , as the apostle peter alludes , 1 pet. 1.12 . worshipping ; but the spirits , whom they resemble , would have abhor'd to be worshipped ; as he most injuriously to truth , would bear his readers in hand , if they would be deceived by him . now , as redemption parallell's creation ; so the one mediator , the one god ; as our lord himself teacheth . this is life eternal , to know thee the onely true god , and whom thou hast sent , jesus christ , and so the apostle tells us : there are gods many , and lords many in the world , counterfeits of the one god , and one mediator . as the heathenish gods , and baalim , or daimons , who were esteem'd a middle region of gods , or mediators ▪ but to us , saith he , there is but one god , the father of whom are all things , and we in , or for , or unto him ; and one lord jesus christ , by whom are all things , and we by him . so to timothy , there is one god , and one mediator , between god and man , the man christ jesus , which one god is now known to us , as the god and father of our lord jesus christ , which title drinks up , as the antitype doth the type of the former titles , of the god of abraham , &c. of the god that brought from egypt , that sits between the cherubins : that title , indeed , of creator , lord of heaven and earth , is not in the least ececlips'd , but shines together upon , and with , and in the redeemer , the lord jesus christ. and as a testimony and standing plea of all this ▪ the sabbath of creation , is remov'd from the seventh , into an union with the first day , the sabbath of redemption , or lord's day . thus there is , as the apostle john speaks , the true god , and eternal life , in the very mention of which , as foreseeing the great antichristian idolatry coming upon the christian world in other mediators , ( the same thing with other gods ) he makes the conclusion and farewel of his epistle , little children , keep your selves from idols : and seal's it with a passionate , amen . now this one god , and this one mediator , we are to worship , and only to know , and only to serv , all introducing other mediators , either of man , or of other creatures , as in honour to god , to worship him , or jesus christ by them , join'd with some ceremonies of a service , as kneeling , bowing , incensing , invoking , &c. is idolatrous . and now to draw the whole matter of idolatry to a conclusion ; i confess , it seems necessary , that whoever takes the test , being , as the bishop truly observes , of the alloy of an oath , it is necessary he should take it in judgment , as well as in righteousness , and in truth . that any one may so do it , he must carry about him a gauge , or certain notion of idolatry , and some general knowledge of the usages of rome , as to the invocation of the virgin , of saints , the adoration of them in their images , with the sacrifice of the mass ; which by a little enquiry will be easily known , if it can be at all unknown to any persons , who can be suppos'd to have possible obligation to take the test : for the roman church does not hide its sin ; but carries the title on its forehead , the title its idolatrous fornications ; and its papal prince carries his names of blasphemy , idolatry , on her heads ; and it is to be earnestly prayed , these things may not be more vulgerly known among us , against which the test is one great security . to give then in the second place , a very short , and portable gauge of idolatry , i should chuse to do it best , by all i have said ; as encas'd , or ench●s'd , in the very words , superstition and idolatry , truly explain'd . the first of which imports any religious act ▪ either to persons dead , as if they were now alive , and conversant with us , though above , as the virgin mary , or saints departed or else and ( as may most agree ) super statutum , above the rule and law of all religious actions , viz. the very law and light of nature , teaching us natural religion , which consists only in the religion of the mind , and expressed only in the most necessary rational latria , or service of our bodies ; or else which best explains all religion to us : the word of god ; seeing , there we find nothing of such invocation , or adoration , so much as in any dark line of either of these laws ; but much written , as with a sun-beam against them , who even knows , and believes the word of god , may boldly call the usages of rome superstitious . and as to idolatry , it is the service to an apparition of a god , to our dark and foolish imagination , for the one god , that made heaven , and earth ; or the apparition of a mediator , besides jesus christ , the one mediator , who redeem'd us by his death : both which are against the first commandement , for idolatry is a worship of any thing whatever that is believ'd to be god , and christ , from the highest heavens to the lowestcentre , by any image , or sensible representation , ( as against the second commandement . ) now he may be sure of this idolatry , whoever considers the romish church , ( falsely so call'd ) the spiritual babylon , the city made of graven images ; so certainly that headed babylon , that in the days of john's receiving the revelation , reign'd over the kings of the earth , and was then ( five of its governments so notorious in history , being fallen , or gone off from their principality ) under its sixth king , the heathen emperor ; and for a little space under the christian emperor its seventh king , but no head , and hath been under its eighth king , that was of those seven kings , who were ever heads , ever since the expiration of augustulus's line , the late emperor , an. dom. 475. for till rome be utterly destroy'd , and sink like a milstone into the sea ▪ that eighth king , the beast , or pope ▪ shall not be utterly destroyed ; but rome , and its eighth king ▪ shall fall within few years , from its ten-king'd principalities ▪ all which may be thus demonstrated , the bounds of the prophesies stand eminent and unmoveable , even to demonstration , viz. the heathen empire therein being at one end , and the final ruin of rome at the other ; in the middle just as the short liv'd christian empire expiring , run forty two prophetic months , or times of the moon , amounting to 1222 prophetic years , which accounted from 475 , must end 1697. now this rome , and it s so call'd church , is mysteries of idolatries ▪ and the pope its balam , or high priest , or prophet carrying it , and so describ'd in the revelation , and the thing there prophecied , so fulfill'd in all eyes , and ears , in the blasphemies of god , and of all that dwell in heaven , by these idolatries ; that then can be no hazard , if there was liberty to demonstrate the thing , as it may be demonstrated : it would put transubstantiation , the worship of the virgin , of saints , and the adoration of the mass , and its sacrifice out of all dispute , although the things may be otherwise set , enough beyond controversy , yet not so suddenly or surely , as by this prophecy is well explain'd . in the mean time , to say all in a word , i cannot but make great doubt , whether the bishop with so great pretence , and yet such thin sophisms in the room of reason , and with those unepiscopal , unchristian , ungentile , as well as highly senseless reflections upon a person of so great learning , gravity and piety in the eyes of the whole nation , ( as dr. st. ) did indeed design any more , than to ridicule what he would seem to favor , things so false , so fallacious , so inconclusive , could never else have been so laid together , and to carry , as it were a fresh remembrance . at the last he concludes his book under a transparent tiffany , with a downright falshood , viz. as if the not taking the test , did wrap up the refusers in a conviction of recusancy ; to which purpose he foist's in a part of the test-act , leaving out what would have convicted him of sensless fraudulency : for he well knows , not the refusal of the test , but the refusal , and yet invading offices contrary to the test , brings any one under that conviction : whether therefore he was in earnest , or in a sathanic fanaticism , when he writ all this , i much doubt ; but if he were , indeed , in earnest , he deserves the character of the weakest of men , in a disguise of a man of parts and learning ; if not , of the most infidelious and dishonest sophister in the lawn of a protestant bishop . but without any railing accusation against him , or any such , i pray as i begun , the lord rebuke them . dra . locnil . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a48813-e1470 reas. 1. * ( words most injurious to the very nature of parliaments . ) reas. 2. reas. 3. assert . 1. deut. 17. * rev. 11. the late apology in behalf of the papists reprinted and answered in behalf of the royallists lloyd, william, 1627-1717. 1673 approx. 115 kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from 25 1-bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; 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(eebo-tcp ; phase 1, no. a48822) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set 47021) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, 1641-1700 ; 1446:1) the late apology in behalf of the papists reprinted and answered in behalf of the royallists lloyd, william, 1627-1717. 46 p. printed for henry brome ..., london : mdclxxiii [1673] reproduction of the original in the merton college library, oxford university. created by converting tcp files to tei p5 using tcp2tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between 1473 and 1700 available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the 25,363 texts created during phase 1 of the project have been released into the public domain as of 1 january 2015. anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. 5% (or 5 pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of 100 instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level 4 of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p5, characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng castlemaine, roger palmer, -earl of, 1634-1705. -catholique apology. catholics -england. great britain -politics and government -1660-1688. 2003-11 tcp assigned for keying and markup 2003-12 apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images 2005-01 john latta sampled and proofread 2005-01 john latta text and markup reviewed and edited 2005-04 pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion the late apology in behalf of the papists , reprinted and answered in behalf of the royallists . london : printed for henry brome , at the gun in s. paul's church-yard . mdclxxiii . to the author of the apology . sir , about fourscore years ago , in a time when there were such apprehensions of the papists as now there are , ( and howsoever they are now , surely then they were not without cause ) some of your predecessors , to palliate the matter , and to make their governors more secure of them ; writ a book to this effect , that catholicks are to imploy no other arms against their prince but the arms of christians , viz. tears , and spiritual means , daily prayers , and watchings and fastings ▪ . so you begin , [ my lords and gentlemen , the arms which christians can use against lawful powers in their severity are only prayers and tears . ] we cannot say that you writ your book for the same end as they did . but we do not like it , that you jump so together in the same beginning . [ now since nothing can equal the infinity of those we have shed , but the cause , viz. to see our dearest friends forsake us , we hope it will not offend you , if ( after we have a little wip'd our eyes ) we sigh out our complaints to you . ] of the cause of your tears , we shall say more anon . of the quantity of them , you say very extravagantly , nothing can equal the infinity of those we have shed . for you might have excepted those of the protestants in queen maries dayes , or of them that suffered in the late irish rebellion . you ought to have excepted the fears of your fabulous purgatory : and yet those are said to be short of infinity . but you jesuites love to be hyperbolical , whether ranting or whining ; as if that religion which obliges you to damn all other christians , had likewise forbidden you to speak like other men. [ we had spoke much sooner , had we not been silent through consternation to see you inflamed , whom with reverence we honor ) and also to shew our submissive patience , which used no slights nor tricks to divert the debates of parliament : for no body can imagine where so many of the great nobility and gentry are concerned , but something might have been done ; when as in all ages we see things of publick advantage by the managers dexterity nipt in the bud , even in the very houses them selves . far be it from catholicks to perplex parliaments , who have been the founders of their i riviledges , and all antient laws : nay magna charta it self had its rise from us , which we do the less boast of , since it was not at first obtained in so submiss and humble a manner . in the same roman style you commend your owne silence and patience . you boast that you have been the founders of the parliaments priviledges , and all antient laws . of the first , let every man believe as he sees cause . but the second we cannot allow , in either sense , whether you mean it of your selves , or of your predecessors . for as now in your church , men are of two sorts , even so they were heretofore in this realm . there were some that wholly minded the common interests of christian religion and civil government . others were papalini , asserters and promoters of the popes usurpations . they which acted in those first capacities were not more your predecessors than ours . they which acted in the other were truly and only yours . you say , [ we sung our nunc dimittis when we saw our master in his throne , and you in your deserved authority and rule . ] 't is very well . and yet * some of you sung your venite exultemus when you saw his blessed father upon the scaffold . but what of that ? since the son is king , who is not glad † that he is king ? or whom would it not grieve to have his loyalty called in question ? [ nor could any thing have ever grieved us more , but to have our loyalty called into question by you even at the instigation of our greatest adversaries . [ if we must suffer let it be by you alone ; for that 's a double death to men of honor , to have their enemies not only accusers , but for their insulting judges also . ] sir , he that is loyal , and a man of honor , has no cause to fear death , double or single . for our kings have alwayes declared * that they put no man to death for religion . therefore if you truly fear death , it is for treason . if you only pretend this , it is a calumny . either way you are no friend to the government , for all your pretences to honor and loyalty . [ these are they that by beginning with us , murthered their prince , and wounded you : and shall the same method continue by your approbation ? we are sure you mean well ; though their design be wicked : but never let it be recorded in story , that you forgot your often vows to us , in joyning with them that have been the cause of so great calamity to the nation . ] how far it is true , that the kings murtherers began with you , we shall consider anon . but it seems you take the liberty of bestowing that character upon whom you please ; that no man hereafter may dare move for the execution of any law against you , for fear of being said to continue the method of the kings murtherers . as for any vows that we have made to you , whatsoever they are , you are more sure of them than we can be of any that you make to us ; for we have no pope to dispense with them . neither is it recorded in story , * that english protestants ever joyn'd with the enemies of their nation . [ of all calumnies against catholicks , we have admired at none so much as that their principles are said to be inconsistent with government , and they themselves thought ever proue to rebellion . ] 't is a calumny of yours to call those things calumnies , which are true , and which you cannot deny without such a presumption as we should much admire in you if it were not so very ordinary . concerning your principles , where should we look for them , but in your councils , your decretals , and the books of your divines ? in each of these we are taught , that the pope has a power to depose kings , and to discharge subjects from their allegiance : which doctrines are utterly inconsistent with government : for whosoever believes them , no prince can be secure of him . but whosoever is a papist , is bound to believe them . and he that has imbib'd this faith , may well be thought ever prone to rebellion . the council of lateran under pope innocent iii. expresly ordains , that in case any prince be a favourer of hereticks , after admonition given , the pope shall discharge his subjects from their allegiance , and shall give away his kingdom to some catholick , that may root out those hereticks , and possess his kingdom without contradiction . 't is observable , that this pope was himself a deposer of kings , namely of john king of england , and of otho iv. the emperor ; and also that this council which made rebellion a duty , was the first that made transubstantiation an article of faith. next for the bulls and decrees of your popes , which according to bellarmine are sufficient to make that to be sin which is not sin , or not to be sin which is sin : it would be tedious to instance in all that could be produc'd to this purpose . from gregory vii . downward ▪ such a trade was driven of deposing kings , that no weak prince could wear his crown , but at the pope's courtesie . and that it might never be otherwise , pope boniface viii . declares it for law in these words : † we say , and define , and pronounce , that it is absolutely necessary to salvation , for every humane creature to be subject to the bishop of rome : which oracle is thus interpreted by bertrand ; every humane * creature , ( i. e. ) every magistrate , must be subject , &c. ( i. e. ) must submit himself to be deposed , when the pope thinks fit . and that the gloss doth not injure the text , it appears by the tenor of the decree ; especially by those words about the middle of it , that the spiritual power ▪ is to order the worldly power , and to judge , it if it be not as it ought ; according to that in jeremy , i have set thee over nations and over kingdoms , &c. in which suppletive , &c. these words are wound up ; to root out , and to pull down , and to destroy , and to throw down , to build , and to plant . all which powers this law-giver of yours endeavoured himself to exercise . he endeavour'd , saith platina , to give and take away kingdoms , to expell men , and to restore them at his pleasure . agreeably to this doctrine and practice your great canonist lancelottus teaches you , that the pope may depose kings and emperors , and transfer their kingdoms and empires from one line to another . which wholsome doctrine , no doubt , as well as the rest of his book , pope pius iv. has made authentick by his unerring approbation . lastly for your divines , they have generally own'd it ; and many of them have written large books in defence of it . we do not tell you this as news , for your clergy-men know it already ; but that your laity may not be ignorant of it , we shall quote them some few of the greatest doctors of your church in this age. and we shall leave it upon you to shew them , when and where they were condemned , what justice has been executed on the persons , what index expurgatorius has censur'd the writings of these authors . nay , if you deal honestly , you cannot but confess , that their works are generally approved , and that their persons are had in admiration among you that are the guides of the lay-mens consciences . we pass over the gross things of mariana's book ▪ ; because , they which once licens'd it for love of the doctrine ; have since condemned it , for fear of their king 's heavy displeasure . but pray sir , who condemned your cardinals , bellarmine and baronius ? who teach you , that the pope may do with any king , as jehoiada did with athalia ; that is , he may deprive him first of his kingdom , and then of his life . bellarmine indeed elsewhere expresses it more like a jesuite , and a man of distinctions , in these words ; the pope does not allow you not to obey your king , but he makes him that was your king to be not your king ; as who should say , when the pope has done his part , then you are free to do yours . again , who condemn'd your great school-men , suarez and valentia ? of whom the one writes against his majesties grand-father , that a king , canonically excommunicated , may be deposed or killed by any man whatsoever : the other says , that an heretical prince may , by the pope's sentence , be depriv'd of his life , much more of his estate , and of all superiority over others . nay , who has condemned our country-man parsons , or cresswel ? ( for the high-fliers of popery have been those of our own nation ) by whom this is laid down as a conclusion of the whole school of divines and canonists , and declar'd to be certain , and of faith ; that any christian prince whatsoever , that shall manifestly swerve from the catholick religion , and endeavour to draw off others , does immediately fall from all power and dignity , &c. and that , even before any sentence of the pope is pronounced against him ; and that all his subjects whatsoever are free from all obligation of any oath of obedience which they have made to him as their lawful prince ; and that they may and ought ( if they be strong enough ) to eject such a one from the government of christians , as an apostate , an heretick , a deserter of christ , and an enemy of his common-wealth , &c. cardinal perron went not altogether so high ; but yet he held to the roman catholick principle , that kings may be deposed by the pope when he sees cause . he seemed to be of another opinion while henry iv. was alive : but when he was dead , and a child was in the throne , then he ventur'd to declare this publickly in his oration * on behalf of the whole clergy of france . † he maintained that this was the current doctrine in france till the time of calvin : and for the contrary doctrine , viz that kings are not deposable by the pope , rossaeus * calls it the paradox of the lutherans ; perron calls it a doctrine that breeds schisms : a gate that leads into all heresie ; and to be held in so high a degree of detestation , that rather then yield to it , he and his fellow-bishops would chuse to burn at a stake . but how has this doctrine taken among the papists in our kings dominions ? it has not taken with some of them : either because you have not thought it seasonable for you to instruct them in it ( for doctrines of this sort are then only proper to be inculcated , when they may do execution ) or else because your instruction has been over rul'd by some better principle ; as we doubt not there have always been some of your church , in whose generous breasts the english man has been too strong for the papist . but yet this doctrine has taken with others ; and many of them have practised according to it , as we shall shew you hereafter ; and many more would have been practising , if there had not been something to hinder them or deterr them . for 't is allowed by your divines , as a very good reason , for catholicks to omit the duty of rebellion , if they are not strong ●nough to go through with it . so bannez excuses our english catholicks , and so bellarmin * does the primitive christians : nay your † casuists say , if there be any notable danger of death or ruin , without which you cannot perform it , that then you are not bound to endeavour it . long may these good reasons continue ; for if these were remov'd , we know not how far we may trust you . for one of your brethren , another poisoner of the people , has been so forward already , since his majesties restauration , as to declare in print , that in case your pope should take upon him to deprive our king , he would not meddle between them . i leave that question , saith he , to be decided by the two supream powers , the pope , and the king , when occasion shall be for it . [ my lords and gentlemen , had this been a new sect not known before , something perchance might have been doubted ; but to lay this at their doors that have govern'd the civilliz'd world , is the miracle of miracles to us ] sir , we know not how to cure your wonder , but by shewing you , 't is unreasonable . for you can it a miracle , that men judge according to good evidence . who doubts less of the dangerousness of your principles and practices , than they that have read most , and had most experience of them ? we can give you no greater instance , than in king james of blessed memory , who was no stranger to you either way , and this is his judgment of you : that as on the one part , many honest ●en s●d●ced with some errors of po●ery , may yet remain go●d and fait●ful subjects : so on the other part , none of those that truly know and believe ●he whole grounds and school-conclusions of ●heir doctrines , can ever prove either go●d christians or good subjects . but pray sir , when was it that you govern'd the civiliz'd world ? for the eastern and southern churches never own'd your government ; nor yet the western , while learning flourished : but when barbarity had over-run it , then popery grew up by degrees , and made it more barbarous both in ignorance and in cruelty . then came in those doctrines of transubstantiation , &c. then came in those papal usurpations , &c. which the wo●ld , being again civiliz'd , hath partly thrown off , and partly reduced into more tolerable terms . [ did richard the first , or edward long-shanks , suspect his catholicks that served in palestine , and make our countryes fame big in the chronicle of all ages ? or did they mistrust ( in their dangerous absence ) their subjects at home , because they were of the same profession ? could edward the third imagine those to be traiterous in their doctrine , that had that care and duty for their prince , as to make them ( by statute ) guilty of death in the highest degree , that had the least thought of ill against the king ? be pleased that henry the fifth be remembred also , who did those wonders , of which the whole world does yet resound ; and certainly all history will agree in this , that 't was oldcastle he feared , and not those that believed the bishop of rome to be head of the church . ] the reigns of those kings whom you speak of , were in those dark times ; when all goodness declin'd , and corruptions were daily growing upon us . richard the first , being told he had three wicked daughters , pride , covetousness , and leachery , said he could not match them better than among your templers , fathers , and friars . edward the first out-law'd the whole clergy of this realm , for refusing to pay the king any taxes , because the pope had forbidden them to do it . and both those other princes whom you mention , made laws against his usurpations . edward the third made a notable one of this kind , by advice of that very parliament , in which he enacted his laws against treason . and certainly , henry the second was more vex'd with becket , than ever henry v. feared oldcastle . we doubt not , those kings had many good subjects , and our king hath some better than you seem to be . but they differed not in religion , as you do from ours : and yet then , your faction was always encroaching where it was suffered , and dangerous where it was opposed . did not your pope force king john to do him homage for england ? did he not wrestle with edward i. * for the sovereignty of scotland ? hath he not often laid claim to the kingdom of ireland ? if the old gentleman in a pet should go to turn out his tenant , what would our king have left , when these are disposed of ? [ we will no longer trouble you with putting you in mind of any more of our mighty kings who have been feared abroad , and as safe at home as any since the reformation of religion . we shall only add this , that if popery be the enslaving of princes , france still believes it self as absolute as denmark or sweden . ] the french king will believe what he pleases , but not all that you say of him . for he cannot but know , that the pope gave away that kingdom from some of his predecessors ; and maintained war in it against his grandfather , till he brought him to his terms . and why hath not his holiness dealt so with him that now is ? partly for the sake of his religion ; but chiefly for fear of a storm , lest his coin should do that which lewis the twelfth's only threatned in the inscription of it , perdam babylonis nomen . [ nor will ever the house of austria abjure the pope , to secure themselves of the fidelity of their subjects . ] for the austrian princes that are so link'd to the pope ▪ and whose subjects are all papists ; you suggest a mad way to secure themselves by firing their countrey about their ears . but what is this to england ? where , since the exclusion of that trash , which you call the catholick faith , the king and the greatest part of his people are no papists , and have had so much trouble and danger for it from them that are . may not reason and experience teach us to fear , that having to do with the same kind of adversaries , we may still have some troublesome and dangerous enemies ? no , we have none to fear but our selves , if we may believe you . for , say you , [ we shall always acknowledge to the whole world , that there have been as many brave english in this last century , as in any other place whatsoever : yet , since the exclusion of the catholick faith , there hath been that committed by those who would fain be called protestants , that the wickedest papist at no time dreamt of . ] pray sir , what may that be ? for you have murthered kings , and them of your own religion , four or five in this realm since the conquest ( not to speak of those numbers elsewhere . ) but that was in the growing age of popery . in latter times , have you so soon forgot our kings grand-father , henry iv. murthered by ravilliac ? or his predecesfor henry iii. murthered by fryar clement ? and the people you have kill'd up by whole families and townships ? witness england , ireland , france , piedmont , which you may hear of elsewhere . these things have been done by papists broad awake ; and what must that be which the wickedst of them never dreamt of ? [ 't was never heard of before , that an absolute queen was condemned by subjects , and those styled her peers ; or that a king was publickly tryed and executed by his own people and servants . ] first , you tell us of the queen of scots being put to death in queen elizabeths reign . it was by the same colour of right , we suppose , that wallis suffered in edward the first 's reign , namely of that sovereignty that our princes challenged over scotland . but edward i. was ere while a laudable papist ; and queen elizabeth , for all this , might be a very good p●otestant . sure we are , that king james and king charles , who were nearest concerned in this matter , never imputed the fault of it to her religion . your other instance is , of that most execrable murther , committed on the best of kings , by his own subjects , and by such as you say , would fain be called pro●estants . sir , we would fain be called christians , and members of the catholick church : would you take it well of a turk , that should therefore charge our faults upon you ? but you do worse than a turk , in charging these mens faults upon us . they were neither then nor since of our communion ; but that blessed prince was , whom they murther'd . he declared upon the scaffold , i dye a christian , according to the profession of the church of england , as i found it left me by my father . he charged the princess elizabeth , not to grieve , and torment her self for him ; for that would be a glo●ious death which he should dye , it being for the laws and liberties of this land , and for maintaining the true protestant religion . he died with some care not to leave you this advantage by his death ; as it appears by these words of his last letter to his majesty that now is . the scandal of the late troubles which some may object and urge to you against the protestant religion established in england , is easily answered to them or your own thoughts in this , that scarce any one who hath been a beginner or an active prosecutor of this late war against the church , the laws , and mee , either was or is a true lover , embracer , or practicer of the protestant religion established in england ; which neither gives such rules , nor ever before set such examples . [ my lords and gentlemen , we know who were the authors of this last abomination , & how generously you strove against the raging torrent ; nor have we any other ends to remember you of it , but to shew that all religions may have a corrupted spawn ; and that god hath been pleased to permit such a rebellion , which our progenitors never saw , to convince you perchance ( whom for ever may he prosper ) that popery is not the only source of treason ] but do you indeed know , who were the authors of this last abomination ? pray sir be plain with us , for in these doubtful words , there seems to be more truth than every man is aware of . the rebellion that led to it , began we know in scotland , where the design of it was first laid by † cardinal richelien his majesties * irreconcileable enemy . then it broke out in ireland , where it was blest with his holiness's letters , and assisted by his nuntio , whom he sent purposely to attend the fire there . lastly here in england , you did your parts to unsettle the people and gave them needless occasions of jealousie , which the vigilant phanaticks made use of , to bring us all into war and confusion . both in england and scotland , the special tools that they wrought with , were borrowed out of your shops . it was his majesties own observat on ( by which you may guess whose spawn they were ) their maxims , saith he , were the same with the jesuites ; their preachers sermons were delivered in the very phrase of becanus , scioppius , and eudaemon johannes ; their poor arguments , which they delivered in their seditious pamphlets printed or written , were taken almost verbatim out of bellarmin and suarez . in ireland , where you durst do it , you imploy'd iron and steel against him ; with which you might as well have preserved him , if you had pleased ; but you denyed to do that , ( as he tell us ) * only upon account of religion . then followed the accursed fact it self , agreed to in the councils of your † clergy , contriv'd and executed by the phanaticks . in vain did the poor royallist strive against it , for what could he do ? when two such streams met against him ; of which the deepest was that which came from rome , where the false fisherman open'd all his flood-gates , to overwhelm us with those troubles , which , for the advantage of his trade , he had often before endeavoured , but could never prevail till now to send them pouring in upon us . [ little we think , ( when your prayers and ours were offer'd up to beg a blessing on the kings affairs ) ever to see that day , in which carlos gifford , whitgrave , & the pendrels , should he punish'd by your desires for that religion which obliged them to save their forlorn prince ; & a stigmatized man ( for his offences against king & church ) a chief promoter of it . nay less , did we imagine , that by your votes huddleston might be hang'd , who again secured our sovereign ; and others free in their fast possessions that sate as judges , and sealed the execution of that great prince of happy memory . ] that many gentlemen of your church were not of your party , we do willingly acknowledge ; and that some of them in that critical day of danger , did the king very eminent service . but so did protestants too ; therefore you cannot ascribe this to your religion . nor does it seem reasonable , that to requite particular persons for their service , we should abandon those laws which may secure the publick against as great a danger . to question his life that had freely exposed it for our sovereigns , were too great a barbarity for any christians but of your sect , or any age but queen maries dayes ; for then sir nicholas throgmorton was indeed so dealt with ; but we do not more detest those times than such examples . and we know that his majesty , without any trespass on his laws , may protect and reward those persons whom he judgeth deserving it ; as well as his royal predecessors did , in whose reigns the penal laws were made . pray be you as favourable to the stigmatized man , ( whom sure you are not angry with for his offence against king and church , whatsoever you say ; ) and if he be now a promoter of any thing that displeaseth you , bear with him , as his majesty doth ; for whom he lately did his utmost against phanaticks toward the bringing of him in : and he would not willingly live to see the pope turn him out again . for the regicides , be as severe with them as you please ; only beware how you tax his majesty's mercy , for fear you may have need of it . [ we confess we are unfortunate , and you just judges , whom with our lives we will ever maintain to be so ; nor are we ignorant the necessity of affairs made both the king and you do things , which formerly you could not so much as fancy . yet give us leave to say , we are still loyal ; nay ▪ to desire you to believe so , and to remember how synonymous under the late rebellion ) was the word papist and cavalier ; for there was never no papist that was not deemed a cavalier , nor no cavalier that was not called a papist , or at least judged to be popishly affected . ] your fawning upon the parliament , and commending of your selves , we pass over as things of course . and we equally believe you now , as you did the phanaticks heretofore , when they called us papists ; or as we did you e'rewhile , when you called them protestants . for pray sir , what did they to be called protestants ? or what did we to be judged popishly affected ? and if all papists , as you say , were deemed cavaliers ; we hope some of them have had the grace to be ashamed of it . in ireland there were whole armies of irish and english , that fought against his majesty , solely upon the account of your religion . in england it is true , some came in voluntarily to assist him ; but many more of you were * hunted into his garrisons , by them that knew you would bring him little help and much hatred . and of those that fought for him , as long as his fortune stood ; when that once declined , a great part , even of them , fell from him . from that time forward , you that were , always , all , deemed cavaliers , where were you ? in all those weak efforts * of gasping loyalty , what did you ? you complied , and flattered , and gave sugar'd words to the rebels then , as you do to the royallists now . you addrest your petitions † to the supream authority of this nation the parliament of the commonwealth of england you affirmed * that you had generally taken , and punctually kept the ingagement . you promised , that if you might but enjoy your religion † you would be the most quiet and useful subjects in england . you prov'd it in these words . * the papists of england would be bound by their own interest ( the strongest obligation amongst wise men ) to live peaceably and thankfully in the private exercise of their consciences ; and becoming gainers by such compassions , they could not so reasonably be distrusted , as the prelatick party that were losers . you prov'd it more amply by real testimonies ; which we have no pleasure in remembring , and you would have less in hearing of them . these things were too lately done to be talk't of . if after all this said and done for your own vindication , you were still deemed cavaliers , the more was your wrong . but who could help it ? all the right we can do you , is , not to believe it . [ we know though we differ something in religion ( the truth of which let the last day judge ) yet none can agree with your inclinations , or are fitter for your converse than we ; for as we have as much birth among us as england can boast of , so our breeding leans your way both in court and camp : and therefore , had not our late sufferings united us in that firm tye , yet our like humors must needs have joyned our hearts . if we err , pitty our condition , and remember what your great ancestors were , and make some difference between us ( that have twice converted england from paganism ) and those other sects that can challenge nothing but intrusion for their imposed authority . ] as for religion , we agree with you in all that is truly catholick : we differ from you only in not admitting your innovations . and whether justly , we say also , let the last day judge . your converse , breeding , &c. we heartily respect as far as 't is english. but we suspect every thing that leans toward a forreign jurisdiction . and we would be loth , by our kindness to those things wherein we agree with you , to be drawn into the danger of those things in which we differ from you . by that flam of your having twice converted england from paganism , sure you mean that we in this land have been twice converted by persons sent to us from rome . which you will never perswade any one to believe , that dares trust himself to taste of church-history without one of your fathers chewing it for him . but , supposing this to be true , pray what would you infer from it ? that because we received good from the primitive christians of that place , therefore we should lay our selves open to receive any evil that may happen to us from their degenerous successors . [ but 't is generally said , that papists cannot live without persecuting all other religions within their reach . we confess , where the name of protestant is unknown , the catholick magistrates ( beliveing it erroneous ) do use all care to keep it out : yet in those countries where liberty is given , they have far more priviledges than we , under any reformed government what soever . to be short , we will only instance france for all , wher they have publick churches , wher they can make what proselytes they please , and where it 's not against law to be in any charge or employment . now holland ( which permits every thing ) gives us , 't is true , our lives and estates , but takes away all trust in rule , and leaves us also in danger of the scout , whensoever he pleaseth to disturb our meetings . ] what is generally said of the popish persecutions , is also generally believed . but sir , you answer it deceitfully . for you tell us of the manner ; first , of those countries where the name of protestant is unknown : and next , of those countries where liberty is given : but you slip over a third sort , namely , of those where the name of protestant is well known , and yet no liberty is given . pray what liberty have the protestants in flanders ? we are told they have none : and yet the name of them is very well known there . the like may be said of divers other countries : nay in england , while it was yours , did you give any liberty at all ? yet the name of protestant was very well known here , and was sufficient for the burning of any one that was known by it . but you say , you will only instance france for all . very wisely resolved : for it would not have been for your credit to instance any other . in france then , whatsoever liberty the protestants enjoy , it is by vertue of their edicts : which how they were obtained , we shall have occasion to mind * you ; and how they are observed , let the poor hugonots tell you . but if they were observed to the full ; should we therefore grant you that liberty which is against law ? because they are allow'd that which you say is not against law. in holland , the papists may have some reason to complain , if their masters allow them no more liberty than you speak of . for , it was chiefly by their hands , that the spanish yoak was thrown off : which , on the contrary , our papists were so fond of , that for divers years together , we had much ado to keep them from pulling it on upon our necks . [ because we have named france , the massacre will perchance be urged against us : but the world must know , that was a cabinet-plot , condemned as wicked by catholick writers there , and of other countries also : besides , it cannot be thought they were murthered for being protestants , since 't was their powerful rebellion ( let their faith have been what it would ) that drew them into that ill machinated destruction . ] the french massacre , which you next speak of , was a thing of so horrid a cruelty , that , as thuanus * tells us , considering-men , having turn'd over the annals of the nations , could find no example of the like in all antiquity . * it was cloak'd over with shews of the greatest amity in the world ; namely of a marriage between the houses of valois and bourbon ; to which all the chief of the protestants were most lovingly invited . there , after the jollity of mirth , and caresles of entertainment , in the dead-time of the night , the whole city was in arms about them ; they fell upon all the protestants houses and lodgings ; they butchered them without distinction , men , women and children , till the channels ran down with blood into the river : and scarce a protestant was left alive , except the * bridegroom and the prince of conde ; who turned papists to escape their hands , and yet they could not escape them ; the one being poisoned , and the other stabb'd by men of your religion . this hellish stratagem , you say , was condemned as wicked by catholick writers . it was likewise extoll'd as glorious by catholick writers . but pray sir , what think you of it ? you are bashful in company , but one may guess at your meaning . first , you say it was a cabinet-plot : a fine soft word , for the butchering ▪ * of 30000 persons . next , in answer to them that call it murther , you seem to blame it as a thing done to halves ; for what else can you mean , by calling it an ill-machinated destruction ? lastly , whatsoever it was , that which drew it upon them , you say , was their rebellion ( let their faith have been what it would . ) nay sir , it was their faith ( let their obedience have been what it would . ) for neither had that king better subjects than those which were massacred ; nor had his successor erranter rebels than those that did massacre them . brave coligni was the first murthered ; and his head was sent to rome , while his body ( according to his own ominous * wish ) was mangled and dragged about the streets of paris . the duke of guise was chief of the murtherers ; whose factious authority , as you sweetly style it , was as black a rebellion as ever that kingdom saw . but to end this question , whether these men were massacred for protestant religion , or for rebellion ; let us take judges between us : for possibly , we may be partial for the one , and you for the other . first , of rebellion , a king should be the most competent judge : hear therefore what king james saith , who lived in the fresh memory of those dayes . i could never yet learn ( saith he ) by any good and true intelligence , that in france , those of the religion took arms against their king. in the first civil wars they stood only upon their guard , they stood only to their lawful wards , and locks of defence . they armed not , nor took the field , before they were pursued with fire & sword , burnt up and slaughtered . besides , religion was neither the root nor the rinde of those intestine troubles . the true ground of the quarrel was this ; during the minority of king francis ii. the protestants of france were a refuge and succor to the princes of the blood , when they were kept from the king's presence , and by the power of their enemies were no better than plainly driven and chased from the court. i mean the grandfathers of the king now reigning , and of the prince of conde , when they had no place of safe retreat . in regard of which worthy and honorable service , it may seem the french king hath reason to have the protestants in his gracious remembrance . with other commotion or insurrection the protestants are not justly to be charged . certain it is , that king henry iii , &c. by their good service was delivered from a most extream & eminent peril of his life , &c. they never abandoned that henry iii. nor iv. in all the heat of revolts and rebellions raised by the pope , and the more part of the clergy , &c. then of religion , since you will allow none but the pope to be judge , let us hear his judgment from thuanus , who was a roman catholick , and a most authentick historian . he tells us , the pope had an account of the massacre from his legate at paris , that he read his letter in the consistory of cardinals , that there it was decreed that they should go directly to st. marks , and there solemnly give thanks to almighty god for so great a blessing conferred upon the roman see , and the christian world. that soon after a jubilee should be publisht through the whole christian world , and these causes were exprest for it , to give thanks to god for destroying in france the enemies of the truth , and of the church , &c. in the evening , the guns were fired at st. angelo , and bonefires were made , and nothing was omitted of all those things that use to be performed in the greatest victories of the church . some dayes after , there was a procession to st. lewis , with the greatest resort of nobility and people . first went the bishops and cardinals , then the switzers , then the ambassadors of kings and princes : then under a canopy , went his holiness himself , with the emperor's ambassador bearing up his train for him , &c. over the church-door was an inscription set up , in which the cardinal of lorain , in the name of the king of france , congratulated his holiness , and the colledge of cardinals , &c. for the plainly stupendious effects , and altogether incredible events , of their councils given him , and of their assistances sent him , and of their twelve years wishes and prayers . soon after , the pope sent cardinal ursin in his name , to congratulate the king of france , who in his journey through the cities , highly commended the faith of those citizens that had to do in the massacre ; and distributed his holiness's blessings amongst them . and at paris , being to perswade the reception of the council of trent , he endeavoured it with this argument , that the memory of the late action , to be magnified in all ages , as conducing to the glory of god , and the dignity of the holy roman church , might be as it were sealed by the approbation of the holy synod : for that so it would be manifest to all men that now are , or hereafter shall be , that the king consented to the destruction of so many lives , not out of hatred or revenge , or sense of any injury of his own , but out of an ardent desire to propagate the glory of god. that , what could not be expected whilst the faction of protestants stood , now since they were taken away , the catholick apostolick roman religion which by the synod of trent is cleared from the venom of the sectaries , might be established without controversie , and without exception , through all the provinces of the french dominion . well spoken , worthy head of the church ! we will take thy judgment about cutting of throats at any time ; thou dost not mince the matter , as this english limb of thee doth : who yet is thus far to be commended ; that since he durst not say of it as he desir'd , for fear of provoking us , yet he would not call it as it deserved , for fear of too much contradicting thee . [ may it not be as well said in the next catholick kings reign , that the duke of guise and cardinal , heads of the league , were killed for their religion also ? now no body is ignorant , but 't was their factious authority which made that jealous prince design their deaths , though by unwarrantable means . ] the duke of guise and his brother , were not killed for their religion ; for they were killed by * one of the same religion , and one that was bent against the protestants as much as they . only because he spared the blood of the protestants your zealots hated him ; and so much the more , because a protestant * being his heir , he would not declare him uncapable of the succession . for these causes , by the popes consent , these guises ( whom he called the maccabes † of the church ) entred into an holy league against their king ; and called in the succors of spain and savoy , which they paid for with the rights of the crown ; they maintained a sharp war against him , and did all that was in their power to deprive him of his kingdom and life . whereupon that jealous prince ( as you favourably * call him ) for his own preservation , was urged to deal with them , as they had dealt with the protestants ; from whose case , this of the guises is so vastly different , that one would wonder why you should mention it . but since you have led us thus far out of the way , let us invite you a little farther . the pope excommunicated the king for this action , and granted 9 years of true indulgence to any of his subjects that would bear arms against him ; and foretold , * ( as a pope might do without astrology ) that e're long he should come to a fearful death . the subjects took arms , and earned the indulgence . a friar took his knife , and fulfilled the prediction ; by ripping up those bowels that were always most tenderly affected with kindness to the monkish orders . but what joy was there at rome for this ! as if the news of another massacre had come to town , one would think so , by the popes oration * to his cardinals : in which he sets forth this work of god ( the kings murther ) for its wonderfulness to be compared with christs incarnation and resurrection . and the friars vertue , and courage , and fervent love of god , he prefers before that of eleazar in the maccabees , or of judith killing holofernes : and the murthered king ( who had profest himself to dye in the faith of the roman catholick apostolick church ) he declared to have died in the sin against the holy ghost . pray sir , may it not well be said , that papists cannot live without persecuting protestants ? when we see a popish king stabb'd and damned for not persecuting them enough , or for doing the work of the lord negligently . [ if it were for doctrine that hugonots suffered in france , this haughty monarch would soon destroy them now , having neither force nor town to resist his might and puissance . they yet live free enough , being even members of parliament , and may convert the kings brother too ; if he think fit to be so . thus you see how well protestants may live in a popish country , under a popish king : nor was charlemain more catholick than this ; for though he contends something with the pope , 't is not of faith , but about gallicane priviledges , which perchance he may very lawfully do . ] [ iudge then worthy tatriots , who are the best used , and consider our hardship here in england , where it is not only a fine for hearing mass , but death to the master for having a priest in his house ; and so far we are from preserment , that by law we cannot come within 10 miles of london ; all which we know your great mercy will never permit you to exact . ] you say , if this were true , then this hanghty monarch would soon destroy his hugonots now . no such consequence , sir , for he may persecute them , and not destroy them ; he may destroy them , but not so soon . princes * use to go their own pace , whilst they are upon their legs ; but if any misfortune throws them upon all four , then the pope gets up and rides them what pace he pleaseth . nor is this monarch yet so catholick as charlemain was ; if he were , he would do as charlemain did . he would be patron of all the bishopricks in his empire , even of rome it self , if it were there . he would make the pope himself know the distance between a prelate and an emperor . he would maintain the rights of his crown ; and not chop logick about gallicane priviledges , which you say , like a sly jesuite , that perchance he may lawfully do . he would call a council when he pleased , to separate errors from the faith ; as charlemain himself called a council * against image-worship , which was then creeping into the church . this were a good way of destroying the hugonots , by taking away all causes of strife amongst christians . by any other way than this he cannot destroy them , without the violation of his laws : which , as they are the only forces and towers , whereby subjects ought to be secured against their king ; so , since he is pleased to allow them no other , these laws , backt with his puissance , are forces enough to secure them against their fellow-subjects . we cannot pass this paragraph , without observing your jesuitical ingenuity ; how you slight those favours that you have ; how you complain of those hardships that you have not ; and how you insult over the poor hugonots , by comparing with them , who generally would mend their condition by changing with you . pray sir , do not popish-peers sit in our english parliaments , as well as protestants in the french ? or have you not as free access to our kings brother , as they have to theirs ? or would you have his highness to catechise , as the abbot had the duke of glocester ? perhaps that you would have . otherwise we know nothing but his highness's wisdom , and care of his conscience , that guards him from you . of the laws you complain hideously , worthy patriots consider our hardship . and yet , those very laws you complain of , you never knew executed in your life ; and you tell us soon after , that you know they never will be . for what cause then were they enacted ? plainly for this cause , to guard the lives of our princes against your traiterous practices . [ it hath often been urged , that our misdemeanors in queen elizabeth's days , and king james's time , was the cause of our panishment . ] your misdemeanors ! we cry you mercy , if they were no more ; but that comes next to be argued , whether they were misdemeanors or treasons ? [ we earnestly wish that the party had more patience under that princess . but pray consider ( though we excuse not their faults ) whether it was not a question harder than that of york and lancaster , the cause of a war of such length , and death of so many princes , who had most right , q elizabeth or mary stuart : for since the whole kingdom had crowned and sworn allegiance to q. mary , they had owned her legitimate daughter to henry the eighth ; and therefore it was thought necessarily to follow by many , that if mary was the true child , elizabeth was the natural , which must then needs give way to the thrice noble queen of scots . ] under queen elizabeth , you wish your party had more patience ; and we think they needed none ; for in the first ten years of her reign they had no business for it . in all that space of time , which was twice as long as queen maries reign , though it was fresh in memory what the papists had done , yet not one of them suffered death : till the northern rebellion : which being raised against her , only upon the account of her religion ; it appears that she was the persecuted person : she had the occasion for patience ; and you would have wished them more loyalty , if any such thing had been in your thoughts . but perhaps you wish they had so much patience , as not to have discovered their design before it was fully ripe for execution . not unlike . for it appears , you account rebellion no fault ; by this , that you say , you excuse not their faults , and yet you do excuse their rebellion . you excuse them , by saying , it was a very hard question , whether the right of the crown lay in her , or in the queen of scots ; for that many thought queen elizabeth illegitimate . pray sir , who thought it ? or when arose that question ? the arch-bishop of york though a papist , in his speech at the publishing of queen maries death , said , no man could doubt of the justness of the lady elizabeths title to the succession . the whole kingdom received her , and owned her as queen , more generally and freely than eyer they did queen mary . the neighbour kings of spain and france , and the emperor offered * marriage to her , in hopes to have got the crown by her . the queen of scots her self did acknowledge her , and claimed nothing more than to be heir to her , and so did king james that was her successor . so that whosoever opposed queen elizabeths right , if they were english , 'c is apparent they were rebels ; and if they were papists , we may guess what led them to it for the first that questioned her title , was pope * paul iv. who would not acknowledge her for sundry causes ; the chief that he alledged , were these : first , because this kingdom is a fee of the papacy , and it was audaciously done of her to assume it without his leave . the second was , because she was illegitimate : for if her fathers marriage were good , the pope must let down his mill. but after all this , his successor pius iv * did own her , and would have done any thing for her , so she would have owned him . which because she would not , the next pope pius v. issued out his bull * against her , and deposed her ; not for bastardy † but for heresie ; that is , for being a protestant ; for which heresie it was , that the northern men rebelled against her , and many more of her subjects disowned her : and some or other were every foot plotting how to take away her life . true it is , that some of these pretended to do it in favour of the queen of scots . but how if that queen had not been a catholick ? or queen elizabeth had not been thought illegitimate ? would a legitimate protestant have been so contended for ? or would a popish bastard have been rejected by them ? pope gregory xiii . had occasion to consider this . for his holiness had a bastard * of his own to provide for , and another † of the emperors ; no doubt good catholicks both of them . to one he gave the kingdom of ireland , and set out stukely * with forces to win it for him . to the other he gave the kingdom of england , and gave him leave to win it for himself . but what was all this to the thrice noble queen of scots ? possibly she might have been preferred to have married one of the rwo ? but then it must have been expresly with this condition , that her son king james ( who was a heretick ) should have nothing to do with the succession . when their bubbles were broken , and she was dead , all her right descended to king james , who being as little to the pope's mind , as q. elizabeth was , sixtus v. only took no publick notice of him , but he proceeded with all his might against her. he curst her afresh , and publisht a croysade against her , and gave the whole right of her kingdoms to philip the ii. king of spain . but neither that popes bounty , nor his three successors blessings , nor the spanish arms , nor the italian arts ( for no way was left untried ) could ever prevail against gods providence ; which , till the end of her days , kept that queen always fast in her possessions . at last , pope clement viii . seeing there was nothing to be done against her , resolv'd to let her go like a heretick as she was ; and to take the more care that another heretick should not succeed her . for which cause he sent over two breves into england , one to the clergy , and the other to the laity , commanding them not to admit any other but a catholick , though never so near in blood , to the succession : that is to say , in plain words , not to admit king james to reign after queen elizabeths death . so 't is clear , that your popes never stuck at that hard question that you speak of . let us see what our country-men did , who , as you say , suffered for it in those days . they did like obsequious members , at every turn , as their head directed them . they acted for the papal interest as far as they were able . they made the house of scotland the cloak for it , as far as it would reach . and it reacht pretty well , as long as the title was in queen mary . but after the title came to be in king james , pray sir , name us those papists , or but one single person of them , that either died or suffered for him : and then you bless us with a discovery . what then ? were they idle for so many years as past between the commencing of his title , and the death of queen elizabeth ? nothing less . for they were as busie as bees , in contriving how to hasten her death , and how to put him by the succession . and if it were for his service , that they would have destroyed her ; pray for whose service was it , that they would have defeated him ? but that will be known by the story . soon after his mothers death was the spanish invasion ; which would have defeated him with a witness , if it had sped ; and yet our papists , both negotiated * it , and writ in defence † of it . afterwards in scotland your jesuites procured the earl of huntley * and others to raise a powerful rebellion against him . in england , they endeavoured to perswade the earl of derby † to set up a title to the crown ; who honestly revealing it , was poisoned soon after , according to the prophetical threatning of hesket whom they had made use of to perswade him . when these single shots failed , father parsons * gave a broad-side to the royal house of scotland . for he publisht a book under the name of dolman , wherein he set up divers competitours for the succession , and consequently so many enemies to the unquestionable right of that family . and to provide one sure enemy upon the place , he found out a title for the earl of essex , the most ambitious and popular man in the nation , to whom also he craftily dedicated his book . in which he mentions , † among other books of this nature , one written by lesley concerning the queen of scots title ; another by heghinton for the king of spains title ; and another concerning the prince of parma's ; but for his part , before these and all others , he prefers the title of the infanta . and , to shew that he meant as he said , * he caused their scholars in the seminaries abroad to subscribe to it , and made them swear to maintain it , and bound the missionaries to promote it in those places whither they were to be sent . whereas for king james his title , he preferrs several others before it , and tells us , † i have not found very many in england that favour it : meaning sure of your catholicks , with whom his converse chiefly was ; and concerning whom he gives this remarkable testimony , that * the catholicks make little account of his title by nearness of succession . we have reason to believe he did not wrong them , because when an answer was written to his book , † the arch-priest blackwel would not suffer it to be published . and your next head-officer , the provincial of the jesuites , * declared he would have nothing to do with king james his title ; and 't was the common voice of the men of his order that * if king james would turn catholick , they would follow him ; but if not , they would all die against him . which pious resolutions were seconded with agreeable actions . for they endeavoured , as far as catholicks are obliged by their principles , viz. as far as they durst and were able ; at first ; to hinder him from coming in , and afterwards to throw him out again , or to destroy him in the place , as we shall have occasion to shew you in the answer to the next paragraph . the mean while out of this present discourse , in which you cannot deny any thing that is material to our purpose ; it appears that this hard question of right to the crown , was not between the parties themselves in one or t'other of whom you confess the right was . it appears that your infallible judge of controversies very easily and impartially resolv'd it , by denying both sides of the question , and assuming the whole right to himself . it appears that your catholicks , who are said to have sided with one against the other , did in truth side with the pope against them both . and lastly it appears that their misdemeanors were inexcusable treasons , if any treason can be inexcusable that is befriended with such an apologist . [ 't was for the royal house of scotland that they suffered in those days ; and 't is for the same illustrious family we are ready to hazard all on any occasion . ] sir , we have found you notoriously false in that which you affirm : pray god you prove true in that which you promise . [ nor can the consequence of the former procedure be but ill , if a henry viii . ( whom sir w. raleigh , and my lord cherbury , two famous protestants , have so homely characteriz'd ) should after twenty years cohabitation turn away his wife , and this out of scruple of conscience as he said ) when as history declares that he never spared woman in his lust , nor man in his fury . this character would better agree with many a head of a church whom we could name you , than with henry viii . of whom better * historians speak better things . but if he were such a monster as you would make him , perhaps it was for want of a better religion ; for he was * perfectly of yours , except only in the point of supremacy . and you had no occasion for this flurt at him ; unless that , having undertaken to put the best colours upon treason , you might think you did something towards it in bespattering of kings . we have a touch of the same art in the next paragraph . where having undertaken to excuse the gun-powder-treason , you call it first a misdemeanor , then the fifth of november , and then a conjuration ; soft words all of them : but you deal wicked hardly with the great minister of state ; whom you make to have been the author of it ; as if the traitors had not conspired against the state , but the state against them . but before we come to answer this , it will be needful to set down the story , as it appears out of the examinations and confessions of the traitors themselves . the rise of this treason , was from the before-mentioned breves of pope clement viii . in which he required all his catholicks , that after the death of that wretched woman queen elizabeth , they should admit none but a catholick to reign over them . these breves were by garnet the provincial of the jesuites , communicated to catesby and others : who in obedience thought best to begin their practices in her life time . so they sent father tesmund and winter into spain to crave the assistance of that crown . the spaniard sent them back with the promise of an army . but soon after queen elizabeth died , and no army came . therefore again they sent christopher wright into spain to hasten i● and stanley out of flanders sent fawks thither upon the same errand ; who finding the councils of spain at this time wholly enclined to peace , returned quickly back , and brought nothing but despair along with them . yet the breves had so wrought upon catesby , that he could not find in his heart to give over ; but still casting about for ways , he hit upon this of the powder-treason , which as being much out of the common rode , he thought the most secure for his purpose he communicated this to winter , who approved it , and fetcht fawks out of flanders to assist in it . not long after piercy being in their company , and offering himself to any service for the catholick cause , though it were even the kings death : catesby told him , that that was too poor an adventure for him : but , saith he , if thou wilt be a traitor , there is a plot of greater advantage ; and such a one as can never be discovered . thus having duly prepar'd him , he took him into the conspiracy . and the like he did with so many more as made up their number thirteen of the laity . but where were the jesuites all the while ? rot idle , you may be sure . the provincial garnet was privy to it from the beginning , so were divers * more of the society . insomuch that when watson endeavour'd to have drawn them into his plot ( for the setting up of the lady arbella's title , in opposition to king james his ) they declin'd it , * saying , they had another of their own then afoot , and that they would not mingle designs with him for fear of hindering one another . but watson miscarried with his plot , and the jesuites went on with theirs . they absolv'd the conspirators of the guilt , and extenuated the danger of their design ; they perswaded them how highly beneficial it would be in the consequences of it ; they gave them their oath , by the holy trinity , and the sacrament which they did then receive , that none of them should reveal it to any other , or withdraw himself from it without common consent : and for the pittiful scruple of destroying the innocent with the guilty , garnet answered , they might lawfully do it in order to a greater good . yet it seems there was a spark of humanity in some of them . which the divinity of this casuist had not quite extinguish't ; as appear'd , either by the absenting of some lords that were afterward fined for it in the star-chamber , or certainly by that letter of warning to my lord monteagle , which was the happy occasion of the discovery of the whole treason . in warwick-shire , where the princess elizabeth then was , they had appointed a meeting , under the pretence of a hunting-match , to seize upon her , the same day in which the king and his male issue were to have been destroyed . there met about fourscore of them , which was a number sufficient for that business . but the news of the discovery coming among them , they were so dismayed at it , that they desisted from their enterprize , and fled into stafford-shire ; where , the countrey being raised against them , they were some of them kill'd , and the rest taken ; and those which were left alive of the prime conspirators were sent up to london , and there executed . this is the plain story , now let us see how you colour it . [ now for the fifth of november ; with hands lifted up to heaven , we abominate and detest . ] what is it that you abominate and detest ? that day which is the festival of our deliverance ? we can believe you without your hands lifted up to heaven . or mean you the treason which was to have been acted upon that day ? why then do you not speak out and call it so ? for if you cannot afford to call it treason , it is not the lifting up of your hands that can make us believe you do heartily abominate and detest it . [ and from the bottom of our hearts say , that may they fall into irrecoverable perdition , who propagate that faith by the blood of kings , which is to be planted in truth and meekness only . ] it was a good caution of a philosopher to the son of a common woman , that he should not throw stones among a multitude , for fear of hitting his father . you might have had that caution when you threw out this curse ; for your father the pope stands fairest for it of all men that we know in the world. [ but let it not displease you , men , brethren , and fathers , if we ask whether ulysses be no better known ? or who hath forgot the plots cromwel framed in his closet ; not only to destroy many faithful cavaliers , but also to put a lustre upon his intelligence , as if nothing could be done without his knowledg . even so did the then great minister , who drew some few desperadoes into this conjuration , and then discovered it by a miracle . ] having spit and wip't your mouth , now you make your speech . and it begins with a mixture of apostle and poet ; to shew what we are to expect from you ; namely , with much gravity , much fiction : and so far you do not go about to deceive us . the scope of your speech is to make the world believe that your catholicks were drawn into this plot by secretary cecil . you are so wise , that you do not offer to prove this ; but you would steal it into us by an example , that we are concerned in . as cromwel trepann'd many faithful cavaliers , even so cecil drew in some few desperadoes . comparisons ( they say ) are odious : but to the business . first , admitting your fiction , as if it were true , that cecil did draw in those wretches into this treason . was it ever the less treason because he drew them into it ? for , according to your own supposition , they did not know that they were drawn in by him . but they verily thought that they had followed their own guides ; and they zealously did according to their own principles . they did , what they would have done , if there had been no cecil in the world ; provided there had been a devil in his room , to have put it into their heads . for your excuse only implies , that they had not the wit to invent it : but their progress in it shews , that they wanted not the malice to have executed it . so that according to your own illustration : as those faithful cavaliers whom cromwel drew in , had their loyalty abused , & were nevertheless faithful still ; so those powder-traitors whom you say cecil drew in , had their disloyalty outwitted , and were nevertheless traitors still . for as well in the one case as in the other , this very thing that they could be drawn in , is a clear demonstration that they were before-hand sufficiently disposed for it . secondly , when you have considered the absurdity of your excuse for your friends , you may do well to think of an excuse for your self . for that which you affirm of cecil's having drawn them into this plot , is a very groundless and impudent fiction , and you are properly the author of it . for though others perhaps may have spoken this in raillery ; yet you are the first , that we know of , that has asserted it in print . pray sir , whence had you this tale ? by what tradition did you receive it ? or had you some new revelation of the causes threescore years after the fact ? for 't is plain , that king james * knew nothing of it . bellarmin and his fellow apologists in that age never pretended it . the parties themselves , neither at their tryal , nor at their execution , gave any intimation of it . can you tell us which of the conspirators were cecil's instruments to draw in the rest ? or can you think he was so great an artist , that he could perswade his setters to be hang'd , that his art might not be suspected ? for 't is well known that he sav'd not any of those wretches from suffering . and they which did suffer , charged none other , but themselves , in their confessions . particularly , father garnet said , before doctor overal , and divers others , that he would give all the world , if it were his , to clear his conscience , or his name from that treason , these are strong presumptions of the negative ; but you ought to have proved your affirmative , or at least to have offered something toward it . for if barely to say this , be enough , then here is an excuse indifferently calculated for all treasons in the world that miscarry : ( and if they prosper , who dares call them treasons ? ) here is a never failing topick for any one that would write an apology in behalf of any villany whatsoever . for if the traitors be discover'd by any kind of accident , this will alwaies remain to be said for them , that the then great minister drew them in . but why did you not say this for those conspiracies in queen elizabeths daies ? you might have said it perhaps with less improbability . but then had you a higher game to fly at , namely the queens title to her crown ; and if you durst have made so bold with king james his , you would not have stoopt at so low a quarry as a minister of state. but by the way we cannot but acknowledge , that you jesuites are a sort of most obliging gentlemen . if men will believe what you say , nothing that you do can fall amiss . in your attempts against the life of queen elizabeth , you obliged his majesty that now is , as being martyrs for the royal house of scotland . and in your plot to blow up that royal house , you were a kind of fellow-sufferers with the faithful cavaliers ; for as they us'd to be trapp'd by cromwel , even so you were drawn in by secretary cecil . it is worth observing in this paragraph , how you diminish that hellish plot , by calling them that were engag'd in it , a few desperadoes . the fewness of them will be considered in your next . but in what sense do you call them desperadoes ? were they such in respect of their fortunes ? that is so well known to be false , that it needs no answer . were they such in respect of their discontents ? that seems to be your meaning . but there was little reason for any . for at the time of this conspiracy , there was none of your priests in prison , there was no mult taken of any lay-man , nor was there a man of them , as king james . * said , that could alledge any pretended cause of grief . and yet they were continually restless , as we have shewn you in their story . was it because they had not all the liberty they would have had ? this is so far from excusing them , that it rathet gives us occasion of suspecting you. 't is no wonder that you , who cannot afford to call this conspiracy a treason , are not willing to allow the discovery of it a miracle . yet you might have forborn scoffing at it , in respect to king * james , who was pleas'd to name it so . especially when his adversary bellarmin * acknowledges that it was not without a miracle of divine providence . and sure our king makes a better use of this word miracle in the thankful acknowledgement of gods great mercy in his deliverance ; than your pope * sixtus v. did in his insolent oration upon the king of france's murder ; by which we may guess what some body would have called this plot , if it had sped . [ this will easily appear , viz. how little the catholick party understood the design , seeing there was not a score of guilty found , though all imaginable industry was used by the commons , lords , and privy council too . ] the design it self was understood but by few , because it was neither safe nor needful to impart it to many . but the papists generally knew that there was a design in hand ; and though they did not know the horrid nature of it , yet many of them pray'd for the success of it : and if the plot had taken effect , and the hunting-match had gone on , we should then have been better able to have judg'd how your catholick party stood affected toward it . sure enough though there were but a * score in the treason , yet there appear'd fourscore in the rebellion : and it cannot be imagin'd , that so small a number could expect , without any other assistance , to have made any great advantage by surprizing the lady elizabeth . but when the treason had miscarried , as hateful as it was , ( for who does not hate treason when it is unsuccessful ? ) yet many of you had a high veneration for some of those wretches that were deeply engaged in it . what a coil here was about the miracle of father garnet's straw ? and perhaps you have seen his picture , and gerard's too among the * martyrs of your society . nay his holiness himself shew'd his good will to them , when after all this , he made tesmund penitentiary at s. peters in rome . [ but suppose , my lords and gentlemen , ( which never can be granted ) that all the papists of that age were consenting , will you be so severe then to still punish the children for the fathers faults ? ] [ nay such children that so unanimously joyned with you in that glorious quarrel , when you and we underwent such sufferings , that needs we must have all sunk , had not our mutual love assisted . ] you suppose that which is false , to avoid that which is true. for who ever said , that all the papists of that age were consenting to the gun-powder-treason ? or who can deny that some papists in this age retain the principles of them that were consenting to it ? who , although they are not to be punisht for what their predecessors did ; yet they ought to be so restrained , that they may not do like their predecessors . and though , by that long word unanimously , you endeavour to shuffle in the men of these principles , amongst them that served his majesty in that glorious quarrel : yet we think it no hard matter to distinguish them . for those among you which did the king service , are not so many but that they may be numbred . and as for the rest of you , which only suffer'd with us , we thank you for your love , but not for your assistance . for we could not well have sunk lower than we did . but some of you floted the while ▪ like cork ; and others of you swum upon the bladders of dispensations . so that as we received no help from you in your swimming ; so we can apprehend no assurance of you by your sufferings . [ what have we done that we should now deserve your anger ? has the indiscretion of some few incensed you ; 't is true , that is the thing objected . ] sir , our anger is only a necessary care , that what you now call your indiscretions , may not grow to be such as you lately call'd your misdemeanors . [ do not you know an enemy may easily mistake a mass-bell for that which calls to dinner ? ] we know he may upon a fast-day ; for then you use to ring your vesper bell before dinner . and how can a simple heretick tell , whether it calls you , to pray , or to eat fish ? but we do not know that ever any of you was brought in trouble about this question . [ or a sequestrator be glad to be affronted being constable ? when 't was the hatred to his person , and not present office , which perchance egg'd a a rash man to folly . ] possibly he may be glad of it . for it was your jesuitical distinction between person and office , that first holp him to be a sequestrator . and now he sees that distinction come in play ; he may hope , within a while , to have his place again . ( we dare with submission say , let a publick invitation be put up against any party whatsoever ; nay , against the reverend bishops themselves and some malicious informer or other will alledge that , which may be far better to conceal . ) ( yet all mankinde by a manifesto on the house door are incouraged to accuse us ; nor are they upon oath , though your enemies and ours take all for granted and true . ) what an ambush you have laid here for the bishops ! to have them thought popish , because you reverence them , and obnoxious , in such matters , as ( you say ) it may be far better to conceal . but as in the one , your kindness to them is sufficiently understood . so they are able to defie your malice in the other . 't is for a bishop of donna olympia's * to need concealment . our bishops in england are of another make , than to hold their credit at any one's courtesie . for the manifesto that troubled you , what could the parliament do less , when the complaints of you were great in all parts of the nation , than to invite men to bring their grievances to the proper place of redress ? but then say you , men were not upon oath , for what they said against you . what a hardship was this , that the house of commons would not do that for your sakes , which no house of commons ever did upon any occasion ? [ it can not be imagined where there is so many men of heat and youth , ( ever joyned with the happy restauration of their prince ) and remembring the insolencies of their grandees , that they should all at all times prudently carry themselves ; for this would be to be more than men . and truly we ecteem it as a particular blessing , that god hath not suffered many through vanity or frailty to fall into greater faults , than are yet as we understand laid to our charge . ] the king will never be out of your debt , if a jesuite may but keep the reckoning . your old treasons you put upon the account of his family and friends , and your late insolencies upon the score of his most happy restauration . but would you seriously perswade us , that , at six years distance , so many men of heat and youth were still transported with the joy of that blessing ? that there were some fresher causes of this jollity , has been vehemently suspected by many , who considered the great unseasonableness of it , in so calamitous a time , while the fire was ranging in our metropolis , and a french army lay hovering upon our coasts . ( can we chuse but be dismay'd ( when all things fail ) that extravagant crimes are fathered upon us . it is we must be the authors ( some say ) of firing the city , even we that have lost so vastly by it ; yet in this , our ingenuity is great , since we think it no plot , though our enemy an hugonot protestant acknowledged the fact , and was justly executed for his vain confession . again , if a merchant of the church of england buy knives for the business of his trade ; this also is a papist contrivance to destroy the well affected . ) there can be nothing charged on you , more extravagant than those things were , which your predecessors committed , and which here , you have taken upon you to justifie or excuse . the particulars of your charge , whatsoever they are , we leave to the consideration of the parliament : where we heartily wish there may appear more reason on your side , than there is to be found in this apology . for as to the firing of the city , if according to your words ( which we have not hitherto found to be gospel ) you have lost so vastly by it ; yet that will not acquit you from the suspicion of the fact. in the judgment of any one that considers the determination of your late provincial , * viz. that it is lawful to destroy the inrocent with the guilty in order to a greater good . and it seems this vast loss goes not near your heart ; one would think so by your pleasantness in the very next passage . for there you call hubert your enemy , and a hugonot protestant : which hubert , after father harvey had had him at confession , did indeed affirm himself to be a protestant ; but then being askt whether he meant a hugonot ( which it seems was beyond his instruction to say ) he earnestly denied that , as he very well might , for he then also declar'd that he believed confession to a ptiest was necessary to his salvation : and being admonish'd to call upon god , he repeated an ave-mary , which he said was his usual prayer . so that it evidently appears , he was neither hugonot , nor protestant , nor your enemy upon any account of religion . and yet you , being about to avouch this knot of falshoods , are pleased to usher them in with this preface , ( either in praise of your brother harveys pious fraud , or of your own proper vertue ) truly in this , our ingenuity is great . [ we must a little complain finding it by experience , that by reason you discountenance us , the people rage : and again , because they rage , we are the more forsaken by you . ] [ assured we are , that our conversation is affable , and our houses so many hospitable receipts to our neighbours . our acquaintance therefore we fear at no time ; but it is the stranger we dread : that ( taking all on hear-say ) zealously wounds , and then examines the business when it is too late , or is perchance confirmed by another , that knows no more of us than he himself . ] [ t is to you we must make our applications , beseeching you ( as subjects tender of our king ) to intercede for us in the execution , and weigh the dilemma , which doubtless he is in , either to deny so good a parliament their requests , or else run counter to his royal inclinations , when he punishes the weak and harmless . ] he that complains without a cause , must be heard without redress . we only desire to be safe from those dangers , to which your principles would expose us , and against which neither affableness nor hospitality will secure us . the protestants of ireland were never so treated and caressed by their popish neighbors , as they were the very year before ▪ they cut their throats . the best means of our security , is , that which his majesty has been pleased to require , viz. the discreet execution of his laws . by which ( if others shall please to distinguish themselves from the rest by renouncing their disloyal principles ) only the disloyal and seditious will be kept weak , that they may be harmless . [ why may we not , noble country-men , hope for favour from you , as well as french protestants finde from theirs ? a greater duty then ours none could express , we are sure ; or why should the united provinces , and other magistrates ( that are harsh both in mind and manners ) refrain from violence against our religion , and your tender breasts seem not to harbour the least compassion or pity ? ] [ these barbarous people sequester none for their faith , but for transgression against the state. nor is the whole party involved in the crime of a few , but every man suffers for his own and proper fault . do you then the like , and he that offends , let him dye without mercy : ] [ and think alwayes , i beseech you , of cromwels injustice : who for the actions of some against his pretended laws , drew thousands into decimation , even ignorant of the thing , after they had vastly paid for their security and quiet . ] we have answer'd your instances , of the french protestants , and the dutch papists ; and your unjust upbraiding us with the greatness of your duty , and with our want of compassion and pity . and yet , as if all these were unanswerable , you come over with them again and again . these barbarous people , you say , sequester none for their faith ; but pray what did you , when you govern'd the civiliz'd world ? you hang'd and burn'd men , for no other cause but their faith ; and this you did with abundance of civility ; so it seems we may be worse than barbarous , and yet much better than you . but that were little for our credit , unless we had this to say more ; that not the worst of you suffers any otherwise than by known laws , or any more than is of pure necessity . for , we hold it necessary to maintain the authority of the king , and the peace of the nation . if you call any thing religion , that is contrary to these ; must we therefore alter our laws ? or ought you to mend your religion ? you put the effigies of cromwel upon any thing that you would render odious ; as your inquisition bedresses one with pictures of devils , whom they are about to burn for his religion . for such disguizes are apt to work much upon the weak judgements of the multitude . but he must be very weak indeed that cannot perceive the wide difference , between the edicts of cromwel , that were design'd to ruine men for their loyalty , and those laws that our princes have made to restrain them from treason and rebellion . [ we have no other study , but the glory of our sovereign , and just liberty of the subjects . ] sir , if we may judge by your works , there is nothing less studied in your colledge . [ nor was it a mean argument of our duty , when every catholick lord gave his voice for the restauration of bishops ; by which we could pretend no other advantage , but that 26 votes ( subsisting wholly by the crown ) were added to the defence of kingship , and consequently a check to all anarchy and confusion . ] this is no argument of your duty ; for , sure , you are no lord. nor is it likely that these lords follow'd your direction in the doing of this duty . [ 't is morally impossible but that we who approve of monarchy in the church , must ever be fond of it in the state also . ] if you mean this of papists in general , that which you call morally impossible , is experimentally true. for in venice , genoa , lucca , and the popish cantons of switzerland , where they very well approve of monarchy in the church ; yet they are not fond of it in the state also . but if you mean this of the jesuitical party , then it may be true in this sense , that you would have the pope to be sole monarch both in spirituals and temporals . [ yet this is a misfortune , we now plainly feel , that the longer the late transgressors live , the more forgotten are their crimes , whiles distance in time calls the faults of our fathers to remembrance , and buries our own allegiance in eternal oblivion and forgetfulness . ] we can now allow you to complain , and commend your selves without measure ; having prov'd already , that you do it without cause . [ my lords and gentlemen , consider we beseech you the sad condition of the irish soldiers now in england ; the worst of which nation could be but intentionally so wicked , as the acted villany of many english , whom your admired clemency pardoned . remember how they left the spanish service when they heard their king was in france ; and how they forsook the employment of that unnatural prince , after he had committed the never to be forgotten act of banishing his distressed kinsman out of his dominions . these poor men left all again to bring their monarch to his home : and shall they then be forgotten by you ? or shall my lord douglas and his brave scots be left to their shifts , who scorned to receive wages of those who have declared war against england . to swell up the bill of the merits of your party , you take in the services of the irish and scottish soldiers , as if they were a part of the english catholicks , whom you profess to plead for in the title of your apology . and that you may seem to have done this , in kindness to them , and not to your selves ; you exhort us to consider them , in such terms , as if you were the first that had ever thought of them . god forbid but they should be consider'd as they deserve ; and he is neither good christian , nor good subject , that would grudge to contribute his proportion toward it . but you seem to have a farther drift in the mentioning of these loyal irish. for you immediately mingle them with the worst of that nation ; namely with those infamous butchers , that in times of as great peace and liberty as ever that nation enjoyed , and in the name of that gracious king under whom they enjoyed these , cut the throats of above an hundred thousand of his protestant subjects of all sexes and ages . it was so black a villany , that you , the apologist of such actions , knew not how to mention in its proper place , viz. after the french massacre , because you had not wherewith to colour it . and yet being conscious to your self that this lay as a blot upon your cause , you thought fit to place it among these brave men ; as if their names would mend the hue of an action that will make the names of all that had to do in it , look black , and detestable to mankind , throughout all generations . nor do you deal much better with our royallists themselves ; of whom you do not stick to affirm , that in their admired clemency , ( and if this were true , who would not admire it ? ) they pardon'd many english , whose acted villanies were so wicked , that the worst of the irish nation could be but intentionally so wicked in their villanies . [ how commonly is it said that the oath of renouncing their religion is intended for these , which will needs bring this loss to the king and you , that either you will force all of our faith to lay down their arms ( though by experience of great integrity and worth ) or else , if some few you retain , they are such whom necessity hath made to swear against conscience , and who therefore will certainly betray you , when a greater advantage shall be offered . by this test then you can have none , but whom ( with caution ) you ought to shun . and thus must you drive away those who truly would serve you ; for had they the least thought of being false , they would gladly take the advantage of gain and pay to deceive you ] you proceed , concerning the irish and scottish soldiers , in these words ; how commonly is it said , that the oath of renouncing their religion is intended for them ! pray sir , can you tell who are said to intend this ? for if they are such as have no authority , it is frivilous . if they are such as have authority , it is false . and we do verily believe it was never said , wisht , or thought of , by any one that lov'd the king , and the peace of the nation . but what trick had this jesuite in his head when he fram'd this ? one may guess at his design : but let it pass . perhaps he only imagined this , to heighten his fancy , that he might think and write the more tragically toward the end of his oration . [ we know your wisdom and generosity , and therefore cannot imagine such a thing ; nor do we doubt when you shew favour unto these , but you will use mercy to us , who are both your fellow subjects , and your own flesh and blood also ; if you forsake us , we must say the world decayes , and its final transmutation must needs follow quickly . ] here you un-imagine for the souldiers , and imagine for your self ; and , as if you really thought your self in danger , you beg for mercy of the royalists , in such words as your predecessor * us'd to the rebels . only for the last strain , we do not know that any one hit upon it before , nor do believe that any one will ever use it again . [ little do you think the insolencies we shall suffer by commitee men , &c. whom chance and lot , hath put into petty power . nor will it chuse but grieve you to see them abused ( whom formerly you loved ) even by the common enemies of us both . ] it seems committee-men are intrusted with his majesties authority ; or that none must use it against papists for fear of being accounted committee-men . it is time to have done , when we are come to the dregs of your rhetorick . [ when they punish , how will they triumph and say , take this ( poor romanists ) for your love to kingship ; and again this , for your long doting on the royal party : all which you shall receive from us commissioned by your dearest friends , and under this cloak we will gladly vent our private spleen and malice . sir , though you set your self before to speak tragically , this does rather seem a piece of drollery . but you have your design either way . for no man can read it , but he must either laugh , or shake his head . [ we know my lords and gentlemen , that from your hearts you do deplore our condition , yet permit us to tell you , your bravery must extend thus far , as not to sit still , with pity only , but each is to labour for the distressed as far as in reallity his ability will reach : some must beseech our gracious sovereign for us , others again must undeceive the good , though deluded multitude : therefore all are to remember who are the prime raisers of the storm ; and how through our sides they would wound both the king and you : for though their hatred to us our selves is great , yet the enmity out out of all measure increases , because we have been yours , and so shall continue even in the fiery day of tryal . protect us we beseech you then , upon all your former promises , or if that be not sufficient , for the sakes of those that lost their estates with you ; many of which are now fallen asleep : but if this be still too weak , we must conjure you by the sight of this bloody catalogue , which contains the names of your murthered friends and relations , who in the heat of the battle perchance saved many of your lives , even with the joyful lofs of their own . sir , in answer to this paragraph , you oblige us to speak plainer , what before we only intimated to you . it was the policy of the rebels in the beginning of the late war , to harrass the papists in all parts of the kingdom . one reason of it was to make his majesty odious ; for , the papists being his subjects , and having none but him to fly to , it was certain he would do what he could to protect them , and this would make many zealous people believe ▪ that what the rebels pretended was true , viz. that his majesty was a friend to popery . another reason was to enrich themselves with their spoils , and to invite the needy rabble with a prospect of booty ; among which , if they found a string of beads , or a crucifix , it serv'd them upon both accounts , both to fill their pockets , and to justifie the cause . by this means you were driven into his majesties garrisons ; where , besides those that voluntarily offer'd themselves to his service , many of you were necessitated to it for a subsistance , and many more of you did not serve him at all , but only shrowded your selves under his protection . whereas the protestant royallists had no such necessity , for they might have been welcome to the rebels , to do as they did ; or they might have been permitted to live quietly at their home . but they chose to do otherwise , and were hated the more for it by the rebels , because they preferr'd their duty before those considerations . from this account of the motives that brought us together , it is easie to judge how far we are in debt to one another . first , as for them which lost their estates with us , we remember those things were alledged in their defence , * which we would have been loth to have admitted in ours . but possibly it was not their fault that these things were alledg'd , nor was it to our advantage that they were not accepted . for the rebels , having devour'd these gentlemens estates , fell to ours , with the more colour , and never the less appetite . in your catolague of those papists which were slain in the service , you have omitted some names which we are able to reckon . but perhaps you did this in design , that you might the more excusably reckon some names that you ought to have omitted . so you begin with my lord of carnarvon , the onely noble man in your catalogue , who was indeed too negligent of his religion , till he came to be in view of death ; but then , in his extremities , he refus'd a priest of yours , and ordered the chaplain * of his regiment to pray with him . if you take this libert of stealing martyrs , we have reason to wonder , that you had not taken in one that would have adorn'd your cause indeed , viz. his majesty himself ; since militiere * was not asham'd to publish , that that blessed and glorious prince died of your religion . him alone we might weigh against all that ever was good in your church . but besides , we could reckon you a far greater number of protestants , than you pretend to do of papists , that lost their lives also in the day of battle . they lost them joyfully , in hopes to have sav'd his majesty's life ; and 't was an accession to their joy , if perchance they sav'd any of yours . but did they ever intend their sufferings should go for nothing , or become ciphers to yours in the day of reckoning ? or that their blood should be made use of to stop the execution of those laws for which they shed it ? did they think your condition was so deplorable , or their own was superfluously fenced and secured against you before the late troubles ? pray sir do not perswade us to believe a thing so incredible , or to do at the rate as if we did believe it . rather if you have such an opinion of your own faculty ; try what you can do with your own party , and perswade them to do what is fittest & best for themselves . but because the genius of your writing does not give us any such hopes of you : we shall rather make bold to say something from our selves , by way of advice , to as many of them as may happen to need it , and are capable to receive it . we desire them to content them selves with that condition which they enjoy'd under his majesties royal predecessors : and neither to disparage those dayes , by endeavouring to perswade the world that they which suffered then for treason died for religion ; nor to undervalue all the liberties which they now enjoy , if they may not be allow'd to exceed the measures of their fathers . we wish they would not , for the paring of their nails , make all christendom ring with cries of persecution . we wish them deeply to lay to heart , the honor , and peace , and welfare of their nation . to abhor him , that could wish to see it in troubles , in hope that at next turn it would settle in popery ; or that could finde in his heart to bid a foreigner welcome upon the terms of restoring catholick religion . we desire them to keep their religion to themselves : and not lay about them , as some do , to make proselytes ; of which they have had a plentiful harvest in the late confusions ; and if they should think to go on at that rate , we have reason to fear , it would be a means to bring us into confusion again . we desire them at least not to abuse the weakness of dying persons : nor under pretence of carrying alms to condemn'd prisoners , to convert some of them with drink , and to cheat others with hopes of salvation upon easier tearms than ever god yet declar'd unto men. we desire them not to hinder the course of justice , by interposing in the behalf of any criminal , because he is a catholick . we desire them to content themselves , as their fathers have done , with such priests as are known and protected * by the civil power ; and that they would be pleas'd to demean themselves as priests ought to do : not disguising themselves like hectors , or mingling with gentlemen , to poyson the clubs and coffee-houses with phanatick discourses , or even with atheism it self , to destroy all religion that they may have their will upon ours . we desire them not to fill the world with their pamphlets , parallels , philanaxes , exhortations , apologies , &c which tend only to the fermenting of mens passions , not at all to the conviction of their reason . if they please to come into the fair field of controversie , we shall not decline them ; and we think we are not in debt to them upon that account . but for books of the other sort which are apt only to inflame parties , and make the people jealous , and the government uneasie , we wish they would spare their own pains , and consequently ours . if they will not ; let them bear their own blame , and let them answer it to the world what occasion they had to give us this trouble of answering them . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a48822-e90 v. cambdeni annales . anno 1586. concerning babington's conspiracy . * answer to philanax , p. 85 † so argyle said let them take all , since my lord the king is come home in peace . * k james premonition , p. 336. of his works . * v. i●● . k. charles his testimony in his letter to the prince . conc. lateran . iv. c. 3. bellarm. in barclaium c. 31. † extrav . de majoritate & o●ed . c. 1. unam sanctam * 1 pet. 2. 13. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . ●ulg . lat. om●● humanae 〈◊〉 . jer. 1. 10. plat. in vit. bonf. viii . lanc. in temploomn . judic . l. 2. c. 1. sect. 4 ib. in traef . bell. de rom. pont. l 5. c. 8. baron . anno 800. sect. 10. bell. in bar claium c. 3. suar. in reg. m. b. l. 6. c. 4. sect. 20. greg. de val. tom. 3. in thomam dis . 1. q. 12. p. 2 . ●hilopater . p. 149. * jan. 15. 1615 † note that the pope sent him thanks for it ; & king james writ in answer to it , that solid defence of the right of kings * ross. p. 85. * bell. de rom. pont. l. 5. c. 7. † watsons quodlibets , p. 255 , and 295 , &c. out of bannez , valentia , and parsons . the exhortation in the afternoon , p. 22. 1. his speech in parliament . p 504. of his works . daniel's hist. ric. i. in fin . walsingham . edw. i. 1298. 25. e. 3. vide statute of provisors . * mat. westm. 1301. thu. hist. l. 1. the spaniard holds the kingdoms of navar and of naples , and sicily , only by the popes gift ; by which he should have ireland too , and england , but that the right heir keeps them from him . walsingham , hist. edw. i. 1306. letter to the prince . † v l'estrange 1639. in habernfields relation . * answer to the reasons for no address . large declaration concerning the tumults in scotland , p. 3. * answer to the reasons for the votes of no address † answer to philanax , p. 59 dolemans conference of succession , part 2. p. 237. * second moderator , p. 43. * 1647 , 1656 , 1659. † first moderator , p. 59. * second moderator , p. 41. v. answer to philanax , p. 63. of father bret. . † first moderator , p. 31. * first moderator . p. 36. * k. james defence of the right of kings p. 479 , 480. * thu. hist. l , 53. * thu. hist. l. 52. * guignard , in his oration said , it was ae great error that they had not cut the basilick vein . * id. l. 53. * thu. hist. l. 52. saith , that being forewarn'd of the plot , & advised to stand upon his guard ; he wisht rather to have his body drag'd , &c. than to see any more civil wars in franc. defence of the right of kings , in his works , p. 479 , 480. thu. hist. l. 53. * henry iii. of france . * henry iv. † thu. hist. l. 91. * rossaeus , one of your predecessors , calls him a thousand times worse than mahomet , p. 170. & saith , from the beginning of the world , no nation or state ever endured such a tyrant , p. 171. * sixtus ● . quoted his own prediction in his oration that follows . * printed at paris , 1589 , by the printers of the holy league , and approved by the sorbon . * k. james works , p. 483. canon agatho dist. 63. fauchet . anno 801. c. 10. that the pope ador'd him , not he the pope . * council of frankford , an. 794. philopater . p. 103. ross. p. 223. saith of them that were pretended to die for your religion , where was it ever heard that they denied her to have been the lawful queen . * philip ii. and henry iii. for themselves , & the emperor maximilian for his brother charles . * council of trent . l. 5. an : 1558. * in his letter by parpaglia , dated 1560. may 5. * dated 1570. feb. 25. † see the bull it self , there is not the least mention of bastardy in it . * james buoncompagno . † don john. * whom his holiness had created marquess of lemster , earl of wexford , &c. thu. hist. l. 64. cambden , eliz. 1600. * cambden eliz . 1588. † cardinal allen's admonition . v. watson's quodl . p. 240. and 247. * cambden eliz . , an. 1589. watso . quodl . p. 150. † cambden ib. anno 1593. watson ib. p. 154. * cambden ib. anno 1594. dolmans conference about the next succession to the crown . † dolman . part . 2. p. 9. * cambden ib. 1602. watson . ib. p. 279. † dolman ib. p. 109. * ib. p 110. † vvatson . ib. p. 107. * tortura torti . p. 197. * watson . ib. p. 150. * v. thu. hist. l. 1. * philopater , p. 308. and 323. & v. thu. ib. * baldwin , hammond , tesmund , and gerard , were named by the conspirators , as privy with them . * v. vvatsons confession . * v. his speech in parliament 1605. and his relation , &c. warmington , p. 7. saith ▪ none were therein culpable , but only jesuites and catholicks . casaub. epist. ad front. du●●um . * king james speech in parliament , 1605. * ib. * tortus , p. 85. edit . colon. * sixti orat. * 5 jesuiteb 13. lay-men , besides owen and stanley ▪ * at la fleche , and elsewhere . * v. her life . p. 61. and p. 156 , 157. * garnet in the case of the powder-plot . lord orory's answer to w●lsh , p. 20. saith . within few months about two hundred thousand . * first moderator , p. 76. your own kindred and allies , your own countrymen , born to the same freedom with your selves ; who have in much less measure ( than the scots ) offended in matter of hostility , nay divers of them not at all . * second mo derater , p. 43. most of them in the begining of the late war ( seeing themselves unprotected by the parliament , & exposed to the plunder of the then soldiery ) fled into the king's garrisons , to save their own lives , without taking up arms to offend others . * second moderator , p. 43. * mr langford * in his victory of truth . d. of medina in 88. said his sword knew no distinction between catholick and heretick , * v. cambden's eliz. 1602. a chronological account of the life of pythagoras, and of other famous men his contemporaries with an epistle to the rd. dr. bently, about porphyry's and jamblicus's lives of pythagoras / by the right reverand father in god, william, ld. bp. of coventry and lichfield. lloyd, william, 1627-1717. 1699 approx. 124 kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from 39 1-bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; 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(eebo-tcp ; phase 1, no. a48814) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set 107134) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, 1641-1700 ; 1127:14) a chronological account of the life of pythagoras, and of other famous men his contemporaries with an epistle to the rd. dr. bently, about porphyry's and jamblicus's lives of pythagoras / by the right reverand father in god, william, ld. bp. of coventry and lichfield. lloyd, william, 1627-1717. lviii, 18 p. printed by j.h. for h. mortlock ... and j. hartley ..., london : 1699. errata: p. 18. imperfect: stained, with slight loss of print. reproduction of original in the bodleian library. includes bibliographical references. created by converting tcp files to tei p5 using tcp2tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between 1473 and 1700 available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the 25,363 texts created during phase 1 of the project have been released into the public domain as of 1 january 2015. anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. 5% (or 5 pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of 100 instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level 4 of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p5, characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng pythagoras and pythagorean school. philosophy, ancient. 2003-11 tcp assigned for keying and markup 2003-12 spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images 2004-12 mona logarbo sampled and proofread 2004-12 mona logarbo text and markup reviewed and edited 2005-01 pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a chronological account of the life of pythagoras , and of other famous men his contemporaries . with an epistle to the r d dr. bentley , about porphyry's and jamblichus's lives of pythagoras . by the right reverend father in god , william , l d b p of coventry and lichfield . london , printed by j. h. for h. mortlock , at the phoenix in st. paul's church-yard ; and j. hartley , against gray's-inn-gate in holborn , 1699. to the reverend dr. bentley . sir , yov are pleas'd to ask my opinion concerning the time of the birth and death of pythagoras , and of the chief passages of his life ; and also of the lives of other famous men his contemporaries . i am sure you know these things better than i ; and therefore you need not come to me for information . but if you have only a mind to know my opinion of these matters , i can't deny you that : and in truth that is all i can tell you of that great philosopher . not but that i have by me every thing that i observ'd concerning pythagoras , when i read the old greek and latin authors ; and to satisfie your desire , i have put my collections in order to draw out a chronological account of his life , if it were possible . but now they are here before me , i know not well what to make of them ; they look like moon-shine in rough water , all over discord and confusion : out of which i am so far from making out that which i design'd , a perfect account of his life , that i must confess , i can't do any thing towards it . there is not in all my collection , any one certain year in which any thing happen'd to him , or was done by him . yet i cannot lament that great man's misfortune in this , nor ours neither : for as he was a perfect iugler , so his life , being all fast and loose , i must needs say , is written worthy of himself : and it is not only come intire into our hands , notwithstanding those defects i have mention'd ; but with many improvements by later writers , who have striven to out-do one another in stories to his honour and praise . of those * many eminent writers that have employ'd their pens on this subject , there are three that have given us his history at large ; diogenes laertius , porphyry and jamblichus . these three , i believe , have cull'd out all that was remarkable in any of the rest : and the two last were his great admirers who would not omit any thing that might make for his glory . they describe him as a very extraordinary person , for his parts and inventions for the good of mankind : they tell us what discoveries he made in natural philosophy : how much he advanced the mathematical sciences , as well by his studies as his travels . but above all , they magnifie his knowledge of the gods , and of the things of religion . laertius tells us , he was initiated in all the sacred rites , as well of the greeks , as barbarians . those other writers of his life take particular notice of this in every stage of his travels . and yet porphyry will not let his reader be ignorant , that pythagoras was a deist , as well as himself ; and took both apollo and jupiter for no other than deify'd men , which he shew'd by the verses that he made in those places where he was to see their sepulchres . indeed by those verses one cannot but think that he despised those made gods in his heart : and so did probably those philosophers that tell us these things ; though , according to the latitude of their principles , they were nevertheless as zealous as he was for the propagating of heathen idolatry . what notions men have of a deity , one cannot better judge than by their morals . for every one that hath any sense of religion will endeavour to conform himself to the god whom he worships : at least he will avoid any thing that he knows to be contrary to his god. if we judge this way of pythagoras , according to the accounts they give of him , we have reason to believe , that as the apostle tells us of them whom the heathens worship'd ) his gods were no better than devils . it could be no otherwise , if there be any truth in the stories they tell , of his impudent diabolical fictions , and of the fraudulent ways that he took to make the people admire him : which they also that tell us these things seem to think were no lessening of his moral virtues . particularly , they shew how he persuaded his hearers to receive that doctrine of the transmigration of souls . that it was originally an aegyptian doctrine we are told by herodotus . but if lying philostratus may be believ'd , the aegyptians had it from the bramins . it is agreed , that pythagoras was he that first brought it into greece ; and there it seems he had a mind to be thought the first author of it . to make the people believe this , he told them an impudent lye , that his soul was in euphorbus at the time of the trojan war ; and in the six hundred years between that and his birth , his soul had pass'd through several other bodies before it came into his . he faced them down that he knew this by a singular gift of remembring all the stages through which his soul had pass'd in its travels . first , when euphorbus was kill'd by menelaus , ( which was in the year before christ 1185 ) then his soul , as he said , came into aethalides the son of mercury . after his death , it came into hermotimus : then into one pyrrhus a fisherman ; and at last it came into pythagoras . this is porphyry's way of telling the story . but from others we have it , that pythagoras himself used to say , that his soul was in aethalides before it came into euphorbus . and for this , they give us the authorities of them that had reason to know things of him much better than porphyry ; namely , diog . laertius saith it from heraclides , that lived near the time of pythagoras ; and another from pherecydes , the mòst intimate friend of pythagoras . they tell their story with particulars worth knowing , if there were any truth in it . as namely , how pythagoras came by the gift above-mention'd : they tell us , that mercury , whose office it was to carry souls into hades , gave the soul of his son aethalides in its way thither , the privilege not to drink the waters of lethe , the drinking whereof makes souls forget all that pass'd in this world ; and so it is plain , how , as pythagoras used to say , euphorbus remembred his soul had dwelt formerly in the body of aethalides and hermotimus , that his soul was in both these , and the fisherman that his soul was in those three , and pythagoras , that his soul was in them all . they also tell us , how it came to pass , that in six hundred years that soul of his was only in two bodies , namely , of hermotimus and the fisherman : for mercury , as pythagoras himself used also to say , gave the soul of his son aethalides leave to rest sometimes in hades , and at other times to travel above-ground ; and so pythagoras himself said , that after the fisherman's death , his soul had rested 207 years in hades , before it came into that body of his . but what of all this ? the doctrine of transmigration of souls is sufficiently proved , if the soul of pythagoras was at any time formerly in the body of euphorbus . and that , as porphyry tells us , was positively affirm'd by pythagoras himself , and prov'd beyond dispute ; as likewise his scholar jamblichus tells us in the very same words . but these philosophers were wise ; they took care to hide that part of their ware which would haue disgrac'd all the rest . it was the aegyptian doctrine , that souls pass'd out of men into beasts , and fishes , and birds . this also , according to heraclides , pythagoras used to say of himself ; that he remembred , not only what men , but what plants , and what animals his soul had pass'd thoro●gh . and , tho' this was more than mercury gave to aethalides , pythagoras took upon 〈◊〉 to tell many others how their souls had lived before they came into their bodies . one particularly that was beating a dog , he desir'd to forbear , because in the yelping of that dog , he heard a friend's soul speak to him . so empedocles , that lived in the next age after pythagoras , and was for a while the oracle of his sect , declared of himself , that he had been , first a boy , then a girl , then a plant , then a bird , then a fish. apollonius had the same impudence , if philostratus may be believed : who tells us , he own'd that his soul was formerly in the master of a ship ; he shew'd one young man that had in him the soul of palamedes , another of telephus , both kill'd at the time of the trojan war ; and in a tame lion that was carried about for a sight , he said there was the soul of amasis king of egypt . how could such fictions as these come into men's heads ? there is more than idle fancy in them . they shew plainly a pernicious devilish design , to confound those two doctrines that have so great an influence into men's minds , to make them do good , and eschew evil : the doctrines of the immortality of the soul , and of the resurrection of the body . for if those fictions were true , there would be no difference between the soul of a man , and the soul of a brute , or a plant ; and there would be many more bodies than there would be souls to animate them at the resurrection . what would not the devil give to have these things believ'd by all mankind ? for the tricks they tell us he had to make the people admire him , they are so agreeable to his character , that his historian jamblichus , with the same design , aped him in some of them ; unless he is bely'd by eunapius the writer of his life . they were , as one may properly call them , the artifices of an impostor . mahomet , the greatest that ever was of that sort , when he set up to be a prophet , though it is not likely that he had ever heard of pythagoras , yet took the very same methods that he did to impose upon mankind . this will appear in several of the following instances , if any one will take the trouble to compare them with those that are in mahomet's life . the first thing , we read pythagoras did , to make way for the authentical publishing of his doctrines , was to make himself look like a sort of demigod to the people . for this purpose , he provided himself a cell under ground ; and then , giving out he was dead , he retir'd into that hole : and there for a long time together , seven years , as some tell us , he lived unknown to all mankind . only his mother was in the secret , for she was to supply him with necessaries : but of these , he took in no more than just what would keep him alive . then at last , he came forth like a perfect skeleton : and shewed himself as one that had been all this while in another world. he that was so greedy of vain glory , that he could afford to purchase it at this rate , would not spare his pains , or refuse any help , to get into possession of his purchase . and for this , it being requisite he should do things above the power of any mortal , therefore of such things , true or false , they tell us not a few in his life . some of the fathers have said that he wrought them by compact with the devil . but i see no necessity of that ; for he had other ways by which other men have obtained the fame of working miracles . he was doubtless both a natural philosopher , and a great mathematician . he understood all the secrets of the egyptians and chaldaeans . and having many disciples on those accounts , it seems very likely that he might act in confederacy with them . this at least they could do for him ; they might help devise stories of the miracles that he wrought : and then , for their own credit as well as his , they would be industrious to spread them among the people . such lyes they were , i do not doubt , that porphyry and jamblichus tell us , of his laying winds , tempests , and earthquakes ; for of these they do not give any particular instance , nor are these things mentioned by any other writers that i remember . so likewise they tell us of his curing diseases , whether of body , or mind , which , they say , he did with charms : that is , as cyril saith , he did them by the help of the devil . for his hearing the musick of the spheres , that porphyry speaks of as a wonderfull harmony , now we know this is a lye framed upon a false imagination . but if this were true , being an invisible miracle , and impossible to be proved , it could not be made use of to prove any thing else . many other lying wonders they tell of him , which seem to have been made only for talk , being such as could signifie nothing to the good of mankind . as namely , how to shew his company what he could do , he took up serpents , that had killed other men , and handled them , so as that they neither hurt him , nor he them . how for the same purpose , by whistling to an eagle that happen'd to fly over his head , he brought her down to his hand , and then let her go again . another time seeing some fisher men at their draught , he foretold them the exact number of fishes that their net should bring up ; and when they were told , threw them in again . how by stroaking a bear , and whispering a bull in the ear , he brought them both to the pythagorean diet : the bear to eat nothing that had life ; and the bull to crop no more bean-tops . how he spoke to a river that he was passing over with many of his friends , and it answer'd him again in all their hearings , good morrow pythagoras . but this goes beyond all the rest , if there be any truth in it ; that when abaris had been all over greece to beg money for the temple of his god apollo hyperboreus ; at last , in an evil hour for himself , he came to pythagoras in italy , where the cunning philosopher rooked him of his money , by perswading the poor man that he was his god. and to convince him of the truth of it , they say , that pythagoras shewed him his golden thigh ; and then , which was worst of all , made him swear the people into a belief that he was apollo himself . if any other author mentions any of these wonderful things , he declares that he hath it only from report , or by hearsay , and so leaves the reader to judge of the truth of it . but most of these things are positively affi●med by porphyry , and his scholar jamblichus : only they vouch nameless authorities for them , to shew they were not of their own devising ; which yet one can't forbear to think of as many of them as are not to be found in other authors . but why should these philosophers either be so wicked to abuse the faith of mankind in devising such stories ? or why should they take the pains to collect them , and pawn their faith to give them credit in the world ? such great men as they were , had no doubt great reason for this . but what that should be , deserves a farther consideration ; wherein , if i do a little exceed , i know you will not only pardon me , but will take the fault upon your self , if these papers should come to be publisht through your hands . it is certain that these men had a vehement hatred against the christian religion ; not only through the prejudices of their education , but much more on the account of that way of philosophy , by which they so much valu'd themselves , and had got so great a fame in the world. they had no patience to see that sort of learning , that had been so long in possession of glory among all civiliz'd nations , now to be brought in disgrace by a religion , which they accounted to be no better than folly and nonsense , and yet pretending to divine revelation , would shew that they by all their wisdom knew not god. their indignation at this was much the more , because th●s new religion sprung up among the jews , whom they look't upon as much the worst of the barbarous nations ; and the first teachers of it were justly , as these philosophers thought , both hated and contemned by the jews , as much as the jews themselves were by all other nations . that the author of this sect , our lord iesus christ himself , bore no greater figure in the world , than that of a poor carpenter ; and that his apostles and followers were unlearned and ignorant men ; this is own'd , to the glory of god , by those among themselves that writ his history , and their's , in the gospels , and the acts of the apostles . and that these very books were written by men of that sort , even by them whose names they bear , this i think hath not been gain-said by any that lived within some hundred years after christ : but it hath been acknowledged by those learned heathens that writ against the christian religion , and especially by julian , who of all others was best able to inform himself . but what is it that these men say of their master , in the account they give of him , and of them that were the first publishers of his doctrine , how they came to have such authority in the world ? they say he wrought in their presence an infinite number of miracles ; and particularly , those which they have published for the proof , as well of his authority , as of his doctrine . they say also of themselves , that , in their preaching of him and his doctrine , the lord worked with them confirming their word with signs following . they laid the chief stress of their proof upon his resurrection from the dead : of which , not only his apostles were eye-witnesses , but above 500 persons , most of them then living , when st. paul appeal'd to their testimony . and that he did , in an epistle which was written within some 20 years after the matter of fact. the apostles especially took it on themselves , as their office , to be witnesses of his resurrection . for the faithful discharge whereof , as they could expect nothing but sufferings in this life , so they desir'd nothing more than to finish their course by dying for it . and they were not deceiv'd in this expectation ; all of them being continually persecuted as long as they liv'd , and many of them suffering death for the testimony of christ. they were charged with no other crime in this world. as for what they write of his miracles ; and also of their own , which they profest they wrought only by a power derived from him ; the truth of the matters of fact , we do not find was ever question'd by any that lived in that age. on the contrary , we see it was acknowledged by the pharisees , the most malicious and vigilant enemies of our lord iesus christ , and of his holy apostles . no doubt it puzled their wise heads to think how ' such wonderful works should be wrought by such simple illiterate men. for one cannot think they could satisfie themselves with the account which they gave others , of the way that christ had to cast out devils , when they said that he did it by the prince of devils ; for , as he there answer'd them , it was visibly against the devil's interest to do this ; the miracles of christ being plainly in those instances to dispossess the devil of men's bodies ; and by that , and other beneficial works , to oblige them , and others , to receive a doctrine that would also dispossess him of their souls . but besides the absurdity of this , it is plain the jews did not believe themselves in this accusation of christ. for if they had , they would have insisted on this ; as being a capital crime , not only by their law , but also the roman : and therefore to be sure , they would not have been to seek for other crimes , if they had thought they had any colour to charge him with this . but that which the pharisees said then , of that one sort of miracles ; though it was against all reason , and against their own conscience ; yet , for want of a better colour for their unbelief , the jews in after times have alledged against all the miracles of christ , and his apostles and followers . this we see in those objections of the jews , whom celsus brings in arguing against the christian religion : these jews , on this very account , rank our blessed saviour with pythagoras , of whom enough has been said ; and with such other heathen impostors , of whom more will be said afterwards . but for those jews whom celsus produces , since it hath been sufficiently shown that they ought not to be admitted as accusers in this cause , therefore they might be dismissed ; but that the same celsus gives us occasion to make use of them as our witnesses , as to those matters of fact which he denies , when he comes to speak in his own person , as a heathen , and one that was an epicurean philosopher . for then he is pleas'd to say , that what things our scriptures tells us of the miracles of christ and his apostles , are all fictions and tales . this he saith more than once : and yet he doth not pretend to prove the writers of them were lyers , or to shew any inconsistence , either in the miracles themselves , or in the accounts that are given of them . so that he expected men should take his authority for this . but why so ? he could say nothing of these matters on his own knowledge : for he writ in the emperour hadrian's time , or something later ; and that was at least 50 years after any of those miracles that are mention●d in our scriptures . nor doth he pretend to have any ground to say this , either upon hear-say , or from what he found in former writers . if he had referr'd us to other writers , it would have been very great news . for , of all that have written in the times of christ and his apostles , there is none , iew , or heathen , that makes any mention of their miracles : which is a plain sign they knew not what to say against them . otherwise , they would have spoken as spitefully of them , as they spared not to do of christ himself . but how could celsus answer this to his own conscience ? that whereas of the miracles wrought by christians in his own time , he saw there was no denying the matters of fact ; and therefore he affirm●d that these miracles were wrought by invocation of the devil ; which was the same in effect , that , by his own telling , the iews said of the miracles that were wrought by christ and his apostles : he should nevertheless have the impudence to say , that these were fictions and tales , as if he knew christ and his apostles , better than the iews in whose country they liv'd , and whose ancestors were conversant with them ; or as if christ himself could not work as true miracles , as were done in celsus's time , and to his own knowledge , by christians that wrought their miracles in his name ? this learned man took surely a likelier way to disparage the miracles of christ to the unthinking part of mankind ; by likening the great things that are said of christ , to those that we read of aristeas proconnesius , and of abaris , in heathen writers . but they that think what they read , will consider , that of the former of these , the first account we have is from herodotus ; and he tells it only by hear-say . he says , they say that aristeas died at proconnesus , and appear'd there again 7 years after : and having made some verses , disappear'd : but that , two or three hundred years after , he appear'd again at metapontum , where , by special direction from apollo , he was worshipped as god. of abaris , celsus tells us himself , that he had such a power or faculty , that he rode about upon an arrow through the air , over mountains and seas , in his travels out of scythia into greece , and back again into scythia , as both porphyry and jamblichus tell us at large these things celsus tells us without any censure , as if he believ'd them to be true . and so they are , as much as his book is a true discourse , which is the title he gives it . whoever considers these stories , i think will not much regard the iudgment that he passeth on the miracles of christ and his apostles . but the way that he took to bring them in disgrace , by ranking them with those incredible fables , this took mightily with the learned heathens that came after him . and therefore , i doubt not , it was , that both philostratus writ the life of apollonius tyaneus , and that porphyry writ the life of pythagoras , which led me into this digression . they seem to have been written , both of them with this design . i am sure they are both of them made use of to this purpose ; to shew , that all the great things that are told of our saviour in the gospel , were equall'd , if not out-done by these heathen philosophers . as for porphyry , his hatred of the christian religion he shew'd sufficiently , in writing 15 books against it : the loss whereof , though some of our deists complain of , yet they may be assur'd for their comfort , they will not want the help of any of our learned men to bring them to light . we want them indeed on many accounts : but especially , to shew them , that as they have porphyry's malice , so if they had his great learning too , both these join'd together would not hurt the christian religion . we should want his books the less , if we had any of those answers that were written against him by three learned christians , methodius , eusebius , and apollinaris . but , as holstein well observes , the roman empire being turned christian within very few years after the writing of these books ; as the emperors took care by their edicts to keep them from coming into the hands of the vulgar ; so for learned men , they had now no occasion to transcribe them , or preserve the copies that were written . of the time of porphyry's writing these books , we have nothing certain , save that we are told they were written when he was in sicily . and the time of his coming thither , as he tells us himself , w●s about the 15th of galienus the emperour , that is , about the year of christ 267. he acknowledgeth that , being in rome at that time , he had a mind to kill himself : which plotinus discover'd ; and upon his chiding him for it , he left him , and went away into sicily . what it was that enraged porphyry to that degree that he must needs kill himself , he doth not say . probably it might be out of madness , to see that emperour's favour to christians , whom his father valerian had done all he could to destroy . if that was the reason of this philosopher's being weary of his life , he had some ease within a few months in the death of that emperour , and then a succession of others that wanted only a fit season for the renewing of the persecution . and it might be as well to quicken them to that wo●k , as to ease his own passion , that he set himself to the writing of these books . wherein , as all that quote from them observe , he out-did all others in virulent railing and scoffing at the christian religion . as for his arguments , it cannot be imagined that there was any thing of strength in them more than what julian the apostate took into the work that he writ afterwards on that subject . and to our comfort , as well as the deists , that work is not lost . it hath been often published , with cyril's answer to it : but never so much to the reader 's advantage , as now lately in the excellent spanhelm's edition . whether it was before , or after these books , that he writ the life of pythagoras , we cannot certainly know : for the life it self is imperfect , both at the beginning , and the end ; and the whole book is but a part of his history of the lives of philosophers . but whereas these lives of his , as holstein observes , were all made up of patches taken out of the ancient writers ; and so is this among the rest ; yet here , after all the heap of stuff that he hath collected from others concerning the life of pythagoras , at last , he brings in those stories of miracles wrought by him , part of which are in no other writers , and the rest he hath made his own by vouching for them , as i have shewn . this i cannot imagine why so wise a man should do , but in pursuance of his malicious design against the christian religion , by making his reader believe , that the miracles of christ , upon which the credit of our religion is built , were of no greater credit themselves , than those which were wrought by pythagoras . that i am not mistaken in this , the reader will see in the following instance of hierocles ; who , writing some few years after porphyry had so highly advanced pythagoras , set him up in competition with our lord iesus christ , as i shall presently shew . hierocles , being chief iudge at nicomedia in dioclet●an's time , was a chief instigator of that bloody persecution that was then against the innocent christians . and to justifie this , he writ two books against the christian religion , which he publish'd under the title of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , a lover of truth . no doubt by these means he won the heart of the emperour galerius , who was the first mover of that persecution : and therefore by him he was advanced to the most profitable government of alexandria in egypt . there also he went on in his butcherly trade ; till an end was put to it , by the wonderfull providence of god , which by constantine's means brought christianity to be the imperial religion . then hierocles betook himself wholly to philosophy , and among other things , writ his commentary on the golden verses that bear the name of pythagoras ; which i mention , to shew how much he was addicted to the honour of porphyry's saint . of his two books against the christians , it seems that eusebius saw but one ; and of that , he tells us , the most part was stollen out of celsus ; and was long since answer'd by origen . it appears that in that work of hierocles , to pull down the honour of christ , he first set up aristeas , as celsus had done : next he sets up pythagoras ; and lastly apollonius tyaneus . all this we learn out of that fragment of hierocles , which is publish'd in the end of his works , and also at the end of eusebius's answer to his book : though eusebius medleth only with that part which concerns apollonius , because that was all that was new in this controversie . in this piece hierocles , having magnified apollonius tyaneus for the great things that were recorded of him by philostratus in his life ; and having vilified our lord iesus christ , whom the christians , as he saith on the account of his doing a few 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 call a god ; he concludes in these words : it is worth the considering , that those things of iesus are brag'd of by peter and paul , and some others of that sort of men , liars , and illiterate , and impostors : but for these things of apollonius , we have maximus , and damis a philosopher that lived with him , and philostratus , men eminent for their learning , and lovers of truth . what a lover of truth hierocles himself was , we are to judge , not by the title of his books , but by the things contained in them . and though his books against the christians have been lost many ages since , ( as those blasphemous books of porphyry were , ) yet here we have a kind of summary of them in this fragment . for here we see in short , what he had to say against the apostles of christ , and what to say for the evangelists of apollonius , whom he sets up against him : and it cannot be denied that , on either side , the truth of the matters of fact is to be judged of chiefly by the sufficiency and the honesty of the witnesses . therefore knowing what he has to say of them , we know in effect the validity of all that is contained in his books . first , in his charge against the apostles of christ , to say that paul was illiterate , this was certainly an impudent calumny . for beside his knowledge of the greek , that was his native language , wherein also we see he writ a large epistle with his own hand , and quotes the greek poets in several of his epistles ; i say , beside this , he had the hebrew learning in great perfection , being brought up at the feet of gamaliel , a doctor in great fame among the iews to this day . and he gave such proofs of his learning before the roman governour and king agrippa , that the governour said , too much learning had made him mad . so far was he from calling him an illiterate man. then to call him and peter , liars , and impostors , what occasion did they give him for this ? only by their preaching and writing for the christian religion . but did they believe that religion , or not ? if they did , suppose they might err in this , yet they could not be liars and impostors ; for they both knew , and writ , that all such are in a state of damnation , according to the rules of their religion . but if they did not believe it , then indeed they might do wicked things for their religion , if that would recommend them to the emperour's favour ; and so to get preferment , as hierocles did . but they were so far from that , the government being against their religion , that they could get nothing by it but dangers and sufferings . those they met with in all places wheresoever they preach'd . and they look'd for nothing else in this world , but sufferings , and those to end in a cruel death , for christ's sake . this both of them declared in the last epiples they writ . and in this we see they were not mistaken . for both of them suffer'd martyrdom , as clemens tells us in his epistle to the corinthians , which he writ within two or three years after their death , the truth of which epistle hath never been question'd by any learned man whatsoever . but what shall we say of a man that was perfectly blinded , with prejudice and malice , or with ambition and covetousness ? if hierocles had not been so , he could not but have seen that those two apostles of christ had nothing about them that would suit with those two ugly characters of liars and impostors . but he had those in his eye that would certainly have been taken by those marks , if there had been a hue and cry after them . i can't think any learned man in his age , being asked , of all the writers , whose works were then extant , which was the greatest liar ? would name any other than philostratus . i am sure he could not , if he would speak impartially . and yet this philostratus , and his two authors , maximus , and damis , known to none but himself , are the men whom hierocles calleth learned men , and lovers of truth . and for an impostor , if such a one had been enquired for , i know not whom a learned man , that had no design to serve with a lye , would have named before apollonius tyaneus : whom yet hierocles so much admires , that he thinks himself modest for saying only this , he was a favourite of the gods ; whereas the christians say , that christ was god himself , for those few strange things that are told of him . first , for philostratus , on whose single word all the credit of this story of apollonius depends ; of what value his word is , must be judged by considering how he was qualified for an historian . to begin with the opportunities he had to inform himself ; it is certain , he could say nothing of his own knowledge . for as himself tells us , apollonius died a few weeks after the emperour domitian : that was in the year of our lord 96. but philostratus did not write this till above a hundred years after . how came he then by all the stuff with which he hath filled a large history ? he tells us , that while he lived in the court of julia , that most infamous empress , the mother and wife of that horrible brute caracalla , the minutes of apollonius's life , written by one damis , that lived with him , were presented to her by one of damis's relations ; and she being a lover of fine language , delivered them to this sophist philostratus , to put them into a handsome dress . but that we may not think these minutes were all that he had for the furnishing of his history , he tells us , he had besides , an account from one maximus of aegae , how apollonius past his time in that town , for the two or three years that he lived there , being then about 20 years of age , almost a boy , as hierocles words it . and this is all the help he had from these two lovers of truth , as hierocles calls them . but there was besides , one moeragenes , that writ iv books , on or against apollonius ; but he is not to be heeded , saith philostratus , because he was ignorant of many of our stories ; so he lost the honour of being recorded by hierocles for one of the lovers of truth . in short , except the little things that hapned in the short time that apollonius was at aegae ; for any thing else of his life , philostratus doth not pretend to have any author but damis . yet all that he had of damis , was no more than a table-book of minutes , as philostratus owns . and those might be written by any one else , for ought he knew . for it was a hundred years after damis's death , before he saw or heard of them . till then they were not known . and then a nameless man , pretending to be a relation of damis , brought them , and said they were written by damis . th●s is all the authority we have for philostratus's legend . but he saith in the chapter before , he had some things from town-talk , in the places where apollonius had been ; and some things he had that other men said of him : and some things from epistles that apollonius had written to kings , &c. as for the talk of things done a hundred years ago , that is very uncertain ; but of what authority were these epistles ? there may well be a doubt of this . for the epistles in diogenes laertius were generally forged by sophists . and philostratus being a sophist , and one that knew how to write to kings , might be the very man that forged the epistles now extant . we have reason to like them the worse , for agreeing too well with his history . but besides , he seems to doubt that his reader might suspect these epistles , and therefore question his history . to fence against this , he saith , he took things that were more certain from the authors that he names afterwards : damis , &c. of how little credit those authors were , we have seen . and if things taken out of them were more certain , as he himself tells us , then there is no credit at all to be given to his epistles . so much for the authority : now for the matters of his history . some of them , i dare say , were such as lucian had never heard of , and yet he liv'd mid-way between apollonius and his historian . particularly , i cannot believe he ever heard of that story of apollonius , how he made the people at ephesus stone an old beggar ; who , as he told them , was a daemon ; and when the stones had made a hillock over his body , he bad the people remove the stones , which they did ▪ and found under them , not a man , but a mastiff , as big as the biggest sort of lion , and foaming at mouth , as if he had been mad . so likewise he tells how apollonius being invited , with many other guests , by his friend menippus to his wedding ; he found that the amiable bride was a she-devil , that was in love with menippus , and pretending to be a great fortune , had provided the wedding dinner , with a noble antendance , and all manner of delicacies : but , upon his telling his friend what she was , she , together with her attendance and dinner , vanisht , leaving apollonius to make her excuse to the bridegroom and his company . here were subjects for lucian to have bantered upon , beyond any that are in his book ; so that , because they are not there , i say again , one may be sure he never heard of them . he that could thus descry devils , might as well ken souls , one would think , and tell what bodies they had passed through ; especially being a pythagorean philosopher . i have shewn apollonius could do that , as well as pythagoras himself ; though philostratus doth not tell us , that ever his soul dwelt , as that of pythagoras did , in the body of a son of mercury , that had that gift from his father . but he was not to be measur'd by pythagoras , being as philostratus tells us , far the greater man of the two . he out-did him in many things ; and particularly in this , that he could call up the souls of any of the heroes , and entertain himself with them at his pleasure . particularly , at the tomb of achilles , where that heroe appear'd sometimes frightfully to others , who therefore warn'd apollonius not to come near him ; he laught at them , and spent a whole night there in conversation with achilles , till the cocks-crowing , which , it seems , warns the sprights away . but the next day he told his company all this ; how the ghost appear'd to him , at first but five cubits high , but rose up by degrees to be twelve ; perhaps swelling with indignation against his countrey-men of thessaly ; of whom he bitterly complained , that whereas they used to worship him formerly , now they had this good while left it off . he called apollonius by his name : and told him , i am glad you are here , for i have long lookt for such a one as you to tell them of this . but for one thing he expostulated with apo●l●nius too : that he had receiv'd into his company one antisthenes , that was of the race of king priamus , and that used to sing the praises of hector ; whom , belike , achilles hated , even after dea●h . but it seems apollonius , having done this ignorantly , now he was told of it discarded the young gentleman . all this , as philostratus says , was in the minutes of damis , who was present at that time . and with him i go next to apollonius's travels , of which philostratus tells us many wonders that he saith damis saw ; among which are the most incredible things that we read in the travels of sir john mandevill . but he tells us many more and greater than that knight has in his book . particularly this , which damis confesseth made him stare . when he was among the bramins , they brought him to a treat : where he saw four tables , that walked and placed themselves in an apt figure : each of these was supported by an image that served them with drink : two of these images pour'd out wine , and the other two water , one hot , and one cold , to every guest according to his drinking : and for dinner , there came in dishes of all the best fruits of the season ; invisible , till they were upon the table , and there they set themselves in order for eating : then the earth thrust up heaps of grass , that were softer than beds , for the guests to lie upon . philostratus saith indeed , that how they did these things , apollonius neither asked , nor cared to learn : that is , he took all to be done by magick . but he liked these magicians never the worse for it ; as appears by the high praises he gave them at every mention that he made of them afterwards . which so prick'd the gymnosophists , when he was with them in aethiopia , that they , to shew him a proof of their skill , made an elm-tree speak to him . it spoke , he saith , articulately : but it was with a woman's voice ; perhaps because the greek word for an elm is of the feminine gender . these are very rank fulsome lyes : but they are but a small tast of the abundance that philostratus gives us out of his damis's minutes . what he tells of apollonius without that authority , himself , as i have shewn , doth acknowledge to be very vncertain . such he owns those stories to have been that he tells us ; of a choire of swans , that , happening to be in the meadow where his mother fell in labour , sung him into the world : and also of a choire of virgins , that sung him into heaven ; if the lying cretans may be believ'd , that gave philostratus the words of their song . for the distance of time between his birth and his death , he owns it to be very uncertain : he saith it was , as some say , 80 years , as some 90 , and as some above 100. but therein , as well as in many other things , he shew'd his want of chronology . for if , as he tells us , archelaus rebell'd against the romans , when apollonius was at aegae , being then but 16 years old ; then he must have been born in or very near the first year of our lord : for it was certainly a. d. 17 , in which archelaus , after a very short struggle , yielded , and was deposed for his rebellion . and as i have shewn from philostratus himself , apollodorus died a. d. 96. therefore , according to philostratus's own account , he died at the age of 96 or 97 years old ; which is none of the years above mention'd . so uncertain was also the place of his death . for , as philostratus saith , some say he died at ephesus ; some say in the isle of candy ; and some in minerva's temple at lindus . for philostratus's part , not daring to strain the credit of damis , by making him side with any of them , he declares that d●mis said nothing of the manner of his death . but then , delivering the opinions of others , he saith , thus died apollonius ; adding , if he died at all . o rare historian ! that , having not only assured us he was born , but having given a particular account , of his father , and his mother , and the green chamber he was born in ; comes at last to make a doubt whether he ever died or no. what would this man have the reader think of his apollonius ? that he was greater than apollo ? or than jupiter himself ? so it seems . for both these died , as we have shewn from pythagoras himself ; who own'd it was after their deaths that they were made gods : and pythagoras could not but know this ; for , as this writer tells us , pythagoras was among them sometimes ; and apollo came to him , and own'd that it was he that spoke to him . yet here , philostratus , that told us all this , though he durst not speak out , that apollonius did never die ; yet he intimates this was his opinion , and would incline his reader to believe it : certainly your tzetzes did not exceed in calling him the most lying philostratus . among all the writers that i know , there is scarce a greater liar in the world . nor was there a greater impostor than apollonius ; whom , on the sole credit of philostratus's history , hierocles so much extolls , as the great favourite of the gods , and fitter to be called a god , than our blessed saviour . but to shew more particularly what apollonius was , we must not wholly reject his lying historian . for , if we do , we are quite in the dark : there being no other that writ of apollonius within two hundred years after his death , lucian only excepted . and therefore to make the best of what we have in these two writers , i shall begin with philostratus , and take the best information we can get of him . now according to this historian , apollonius was bred up at first among the pythagoreans , and always affected to be thought a philosopher of that sect. for he strictly observed the rules of pythagoras , though he understood not his doctrine . but he not only imitated , but much out did him in his travels . and according to the way of that sect , which was much addicted to the worship of daemon's , he made it his b●siness , wheresoever he went , to restore the gentile idolatry , which was then much sunk by the preaching of the christian religion . this , no doubt , might entitle him to the devil 's especial assistance , by which he might do wonderfull things ; and might , as he boasted he did , know more than all the men in the world . that was nothing to him . he would be thought to be a god , and therefore he boasted of things which no man could know or do . he declared , he knew all the languages of men without any teaching ; and that he understood , not only their words , but even their silent thoughts . damis , as soon as he heard this , fell down and worsh●pped him ; he could do no less , looking upon him as a daemon , saith the historian . others that saw his tricks , and heard such things from him , soon found both what he was , and what he would be at . they saw , he was either a magician or a grand cheat. this was the common opinion they had of him , according to philostratus , who notably fenceth against it . they also saw what he drove at , even to be thought a god. of this he was accused to the government : and that by philosophers even by euphrates the greatest of them in his age. these learned men , no doubt , had seen the books that he publish'd ; namely , his four books of iudicial astrology , and his books of sacrifices , to shew what sorts of them would best please every god. i find no other books that he writ . and these could not but confirm those philosophers in their opinion of him . we have these things , and much more of this kind , from philostratus ; whom we have reason to believe in these things , though not in many other ; for in these he agrees with him that lived nearest apollonius's time . of all the writers now extant , the nearest to the time of apollonius was lucian , as i have shewn . and what opinion he had of him , we may see in his account of another of the same trade , one alexander , a famous impostor . lucian tells us of this alexander ; that being at first a handsome youth , he was abused by one of tyana , that made him his catamite . this execrable sodomite , being , as lucian saith , not only a countryman of apollonius , but also one of his companions , that knew all his way of acting the part of a philosopher ; to make this young man the more passive to his lust , train'd him up to magic , and taught him the use of charms , and made him a great proficient in all the other arts of cheating , in which he excell'd . this is all that we have of apollonius from lucian . and we had not known so much of him as this , but that lucian , having occasion to speak of a companion of his , that set up at his trade , and took apprentices at it ; thereupon brings him in , as the master-workman of his age in all that way of diabolical practice . this was the reputation he had , as it seems , till above a hundred years after his death . then outcomes this book of his life ; compos'd , as i have shewn , out of unknown memoirs , brought into the world by an unknown hand . they are said to have been brought to the empress julia , as i have shewn . that might be , though they were first born in her court. she might as well order the first devising , as the composing of them in●o a history . philostratus owns that what he did was by her order . and she was her self a philosopher , as he tells us : a great intriguer , all acknowledge . no doubt she had very great reasons for such an extraordinary thing as this was , to canonize a magician a hundred years after his death , and to advance him even to be a god : whether she had a mind this way to draw off her son , the young emperor , from the esteem he had of the christians , whom he favour'd on his nurses account , that was of that religion : or whether to do honour to a disciple and in●imate friend of the magi , that were noted to lie with their mothers ; and thereby to countenance her wicked design of drawing her son to her bed. these are but conjectures . but whatsoever the matter was , it was she , as philostratus owns , that set him upon the design of writing the life of apollonius ; at such a rate , that whoever believ'd it , could not but look upon him as a fit rival for our blessed saviour . her , and her son caracalla , i take to have been the emperours that order'd him to be worshipped , at tyana where he was born . that emperors did order this , philostratus tells us in a chapter which i take to be an addition to the end of his book . and sure this could not be done by any emperors before lucian's time : for if it had , he durst not have writ those things that i have quoted from him . considering also that her sister or neice mammaea , the mother of alexander severus , was a christian ; i do not wonder at that which lampridius hath in this emperors life . where he saith , he had the images of christ and apollonius together in his lararium . of his mother he had his birth and education ; and it was his aunt julia that rais'd him to that greatness ; in which , being to furnish a closet for his devotion , he thought to please them both , in setting up his aunt 's god together with his mother's . as the bigotted heathens could not but be pleas'd with the honour done to apollonius , in order to the lessening of our blessed saviour , so no doubt the devil would promote it what he could . and therefore i am inclin'd to be of dr. more 's opinion ; that the devil might make that appearance to aurelian , in the name of his saint apollonius , to perswade that incensed emperor to spare his city of tyana for his sake . tho' otherwise , it is not improbable that vopiscus might invent this part of his history . for , as my most learned friend mr. dodwell shews , he writ it in the first heat of diocletian's persecution , and dedicated it to the praefectus urbis , who had the same concern in this matter at rome , that hierocles had at nicomedia . and by the high encomium he gives apollonius ; out of a greek book , as he tells us , which could be no other than his life written by philostratus ; it is plain he had the same wicked design with hierocles , namely , to set up this magician for a rival to our saviour ; and thereby to bring contempt on his holy religion , and on all them that suffer'd and died for it in that persecution . but when god●s time was come to set up the kingdom of christ , three or four emperors that oppos'd it with the utmost malice and rage , were successively taken away by the visible hand of god ; the iustice whereof two of them at their death did acknowledge . then the devil being thrown out of heaven , all his angels fell with him . christianity came to be the establish'd religion . and then , ( to use the phrase of a gentleman that had more wit than did him good , ) religion having taught the people to say grace , there was no more danger of the crooked pin in the pudding : those palpable lyes of apollonius would not go down ; and so , for ought i find , hierocles quite lost his labour . next , jamblichus , who , as eunapius saith in his life , was a greater scholar than his master porphyry , and who was no less a hater of christians ; yet living under christian emperors , a she did all the time of his age for writing books , he durst not write professedly against the christian religion . but taking this to be a safe way , he went on with his masters design of setting up pythagoras to be a rival to our saviour . in order to this , he took up all the stuff that porphyry in his life of pythagoras had gather'd ready to his hand . he worked it over again his own way , oftentimes making use of porphyry's words . then , for farther embellishment , he added out of his own invention , whatever he thought would either adorn his subject , or promote the design of his writing . his design was plainly to subvert the christian religion . but so , as not to run himself in any danger on that account : and therefore , without ever mentioning christ or christians ; which he could not do in this book without seeming to make some kind of reflection upon them ; he only endeavours to make pythagoras , and those of his sect , out-shine them in the lustre that he gives them with his eloquence , such as it is . which , together with other services that he did to the cause of heathenism against the christian religion , did so far endear him to julian , that wretched apostate ; that , after he came to shew himself , which was not till he took the empire upon him , he writ more epistles to jamblichus than to any other while he was living : and after his death never mentioned him but with the highest encomiums , calling him sometimes the hero , sometimes the divine jamblichus , and one whom he admired next the gods. julian , having been sometime a reader in the church , might very well understand him as i do in the following instances of his book ; which i take to have been written in a kind of abusive imitation of the gospel . namely , where he tells us , how the mother of pythagoras , being with child of him , which was more than her husband yet knew , was brought by him to the oracle of apollo pythius at delphi : and there the prophetess told him both the first news of his wife's conception , and also that the child she then went with should prove the greatest good to mankind . thereupon he saith , her husband changed his wife's name from parthenis to pythais : and afterwards , when the child was born , call'd him pythagoras ; as being foretold by apollo pythius , for so he saith that name signifies . jamblichus will not take upon him to say ( as he tells us some others did ) that the child was of apollo's own getting : but he saith , none can doubt it was one of apollo's companions in heaven , that came down to be the soul of that child . he should have said rather , one of pluto's companions in hell ; for the soul of pythagoras came then out of hades , if pythagoras himself may be believ'd . but jamblichus was aware that pythagoras overshot himself sometimes , and did it particularly in his account of the stages that his soul pass'd thro' in it's travels . therefore jamblichus takes notice of no other but euphorbus , in whom that soul formerly dwelt . he smuggles all the other names we have mention'd , not only from his master porphyry , but even from pythagoras himself . but however , he saith , it hath been affirm'd by many , and that with great probability , that pythagoras was the son of god. nay , that he was one of the heavenly gods that then appear'd upon earth for the good of mankind ; a greater good than ever did come before , or should ever come after . his disciples indeed could not agree among themselves what god he should be . some would have it that he was apollo pythius ; others , that he was apollo hyperboreus ; others , that he was aesculapius ; others , that he was one of the daemons that dwelt in the moon . they that said he was apollo , seem'd to be the greatest number ; and they had the greatest authority on their side , even his own ; for so pyth. himself told abaris ( to entitle himself to the money , as we have shewn ) that he was the very god himself : and proved it by shewing him his golden thigh , such , as it seems abaris had told him that the image of his god had in scythia . but then , lest abaris should ask him what he made here ? pythagoras added , that he put on human shape , that men might not be afraid to converse with him ; as they would , if they knew the excellence of his person , and so they would deprive themselves of the benefit of his doctrine . such stuff as this runs through his book ; which , being written for the deifying of an impostor , plainly shew'd that the design of it was to banter the gospel of christ. he begins like one of the heathen poets , with invoking the gods , and pythagoras , to assist him in the work. how he ended it , we cannot tell ; for his book is imperfect . but probably he continu'd it with an account of this impostor's disciples , in imitation of the acts of the apostles . in short , as well for history , as for doctrinal matters , from one end to the other , it hath so much of the devil in it , that it seems to have been wholly written by his inspiration . but all this i do acknowledge to have been a digression , as well as all the rest of what i have written , that doth not concern the writers of pythagoras's life . for it was my proper business to shew of what credit they are ▪ as to matter of history . now the two chief of these , being porphyry and jamblichus , who were great philosophers themselves , and such great admirers of pythagoras , as they shew in the writing of his life ; one ought to expect they would have taken care to gather all that was true of him out of all the former historians , and to have mingled nothing with it that was inconsistent with the truth of history . how well they have perform'd this in other respects , i shall not take upon me to examin . but i shall take account of it only as to matter of chronology . and that i think sufficiently sheweth how much at random it is that jamblichus pretends to give the years of pythagoras's life , and his chief actions and events : and also how grosly both he , and porphyry before him , have abused their readers in the accounts that they give us of his principal disciples . as to the years of pythagoras's life , jamblichus tells us , that it was much about his xviii year that he set out to travel : and that after some time , ( which i take to be iv years ) spent in other countries , he came into aegypt , and there he stay'd xxii years . he goes on , and says that the philosopher being taken there by cambyses's soldiers , was carry'd to babylon , and there he stay'd xii years ; and then return'd home to samos , being now about lvi years old . there he stay'd for some time , ( it should seem for another iv years ) and then in olympiad lxii he went into italy . there , he says , he govern'd his school xl years wanting i , and lived in all very near c years . so distinct an account as this is of the years of pythagoras's life , whereof there is not the least item in any of the ancienter writers , did , i confess , not a little rejoyce me , when i first met with it : and so much the more , because of two certain notations of time , by which , if they were true , all those years might be reduced to the like certainty . there is nothing better known in ancient history , than the year of cambyses's conquering aegypt . we are certain it was in the end of the third year , or the beginning of the fourth of olymp. lxiv . so that according to jamblichus , this was the very year of pythagoras's being carry'd to babylon . and the time of his going into italy is as certain , according to jamblichus , who saith it was olymp. lxii wherein eryxias was victor . there is plainly vi years distance of time between these years that are here mention'd . and the same , one would think , there should be between his being carry'd to babylon and his going into italy . but that cannot be jamblichus's meaning . for he saith , it was xii years that pythagoras stay'd at babylon ; and then , to make up his life very near c years , as jamblichus reckons it , there must be three or four years more that he stay'd in crete , and at samos , before he went into italy . add these to the xii years before mention'd , and they make some xv or xvi years . and yet here jamblichus makes his going into italy to be in olymp. lxii , that is , to be vi or vii years before the certain time of his being carry'd to babylon , which must be in the third or fourth year of olymp. lxiii , if he was carry'd thither by the forces of cambyses , as jamblichus tells us . so in short , he brings pythagoras captive to babylon some xv or xvi years before his going to italy ; and yet he makes his going into italy vi or vii years before his being carry'd to babylon . here are two of the chief accounts of time in his history which so manifestly contradict one another , that to believe him in both is impossible . th●s is a great disappointment , but it will make us some part of amends , if there be any truth in either of them . to begin with that which he saith of pythagoras's being taken in aegypt by the soldiers of king cambyses ; that must be in the third or fo●rth year of olymp. lxiii , as i have shewn . but as herein he contradicts himself in his other notation of time , so in this he doth not agree with the ancienter writers ; who generally speak of pythagoras's coming from babylon to samos , and 〈◊〉 going from thence in●o italy , before the reign of cambyses . now that he that lived near dccc years after those times , should presume to publish this to the world , without naming any author for it , but as if he said it of his own knowledge ; this i cannot look upon as any other than a very imp●dent fiction . as for that which he said of pythagoras's going into italy in olymp. lxii , it is very likely he had authors that said something like it . there are enough that say he was there in olymp. lxii ; and it is very likely jamblichus might mistake them , and that might occasion him to say that pythagoras went thither at that time . this is the best i can say of it . and so in short , i have lost all the joy that i had of both his discoveries . for having examin'd them , i see the last is a mere blunder , the former a bold fiction , and they both contradict one another . what credit can one give to such an historian ? for his account of the disciples of pythagoras , he takes what he will out of the rude heap that his master porphyry had thrown together , and much more he adds very lavishly out of his own head . zamolxis the lawgiver of the getes , they will have to be one of pythagoras's disciples . porphyry makes him one of the first . for he saith , that zamolxis being yet a boy , was brought out of thrace by the father of our philosopher , who gave him to his son , and he taught him all matters of religion . jamblichus owns he was slave to pythagoras ; who , as he says , taught , him and then gave him his liberty . and yet he had reckon●d him before , among the young men , that came to be disciples to pythagoras in his old age. all this is true alike . for herodotus , that liv'd among them who remember'd pythagoras , saith , zamolxis was much ancienter than he . and therefore jamblichus was once in the right , though perhaps it was through forgetfulness , when he left him out of the catalogue of pythagoras's disciples . zaleucus and charondas he hath in the catalogue ; for which , he hath not only porphyry on his side , who tells us from nicomachus , that by these he gave laws to their people ; but also in diogenes laertius there is a mention of them to this purpose . but jamblichus of his own head reckons both these among them that came young to be pythagoras's disciples when he was old : which is no truer of them than of zamolxis ; for these also were much ancienter than pythagoras . zaleucus lived olymp. xxix , according to eusebius's chronicon . of charondas you have shewn that he was the scholar of zaleucus , or as others say , older than he . so that , if these three were pythagoras's disciples , it must have been some time after the wars of troy , before his soul came into that samian body of his ; which , if it could be made out , would be a wonderfull proof of his doctrine of transmigration . they reckon three other disciples of pythagoras , on whom he set no ordinary value , if it be true that they tell us of the names that he gave them . these three were epimenides , by him surnamed purger ; empedocles , call●d wind-charmer ; and abaris , called sky-rider . and very fine stories they tell of the reasons of his giving them these names : all tending to this , that he imparted to them some of those romantick powers which these historians were pleas'd to ascribe to pythagoras . i indeed call'd them lyes , but i shall ask their pardon , if i do not prove that they belye pythagoras in what they say of these his disciples . first , for epimenides , whom both porphyry and jamblichus do reckon among his disciples ; there is much more probability in what laertius says , that makes him one of the masters of pythagoras . but certainly jamblichus over-shot himself , in saying that he also came a young man when pythagoras was old . and both he and his master are extravagant in making pythagoras teach him to conjure . for epimenides , as all writers agree , had purged athens , whence he had the name 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , before he could see pythagoras , who , as they say , gave him that name . and he was a very old man when he died . and that was either before pythagoras was born , or not many years after . see my account of him in the year 594 before christ. to fetch empedocles into his school , they seem to stretch hard on the other hand . for , though all agree that he was of the pythagorean sect , yet that ever he was taught by pythagoras , seems very improbable . that alcidamas said this , is true : but he makes empedocles a hearer of anaxagoras , either first , or together with pythagoras . this could not be ; because pythagoras was dead , either before , or a very little after the birth of anaxagoras . see my account of him in the year 500 before christ. but that empedocles came too late into the world to be at all a disciple of pythagoras , it sufficiently appears by the accounts we have of him in d. laertius . who saith , that he flourish'd in olymp. lxxxiv , and that aristotle saith he died at lx years old ; tho' others of less credit say he lived lxxvii , or cix years . but if he was in the flower of his age in the lxxxivth olympiad , that is above lx years after olymp. lxviii , 3. in which i place the death of pythagoras ; or placing it in olymp. lxx , 4. which is but ix years after , and that is the lowest i can go : i must needs say , empedocles was a very young conjurer , or he flourish'd in a very old age : or , which i rather believe , there is no credit to be given to these two historians . this will farther appear by the account they give of abaris , whom also they make a great conjurer , and train'd up to it by pythagoras . so much porphyry had said . but jamblichus much out-does his master . for having told us that abaris came for improvement in knowledge into greece ; he saith , that in his way home from thence , being now well stricken in years , he came to see pythagoras in italy . there he gave pythagoras the arrow upon which he used to ride aloft in the air : though elsewhere he saith pythagoras took away his arrow , and kept it till he made him confess all he cared to know of him . when there in italy they had spent as much time together as jamblichus pleas'd , then he brings them to agrigentum in sicily ; and there he sets them to try if they can work any good upon phalaris . in his 32d chapter jamblichus sheweth his talent in the making of speeches for them , and of answers for phalaris ; till they came to be upon ill terms . then he makes phalaris resolve to kill them both ; and he makes them for prevention set the people against him ; by whom , he saith , phalaris was kill'd the same day that he had determin'd to kill both pythagoras and abaris . now this is so fine a romance , that it is pity there should be no truth in it ; but only that there was such a city , and that there were such persons . it is civil to grant that in the time of pythagoras there was such a one as abaris living , though authors differ much about the time of his coming into greece . for as harpocration tells us , hippostratus placed it in olymp. iii , others in olymp. xxi . pindar in the time of king croesus ; and euseb. chronicon hath it twice , namely there , and in olymp. lxxxii . but granting that abaris was in greece in croesus's time , which is the only time that consists with jamblichus's story : then , according to euseb. chronicon , his coming was in olymp. liv , 2. that was while pythagoras was abroad in his travels , according to jamblichus's account , which makes his coming into italy to be in olymp. lxii ; that is , full xxx years after . by this time abaris , though he came out of greece with him , must needs be very well stricken in years : much more , if he came after pythagoras was setled in italy . but what becomes of phalaris the mean while ? see in my account , 572 before christ. there it appears , the latest we can bring phalaris to die , is in olymp. lvii , 4. that is xvi years before jamblichus makes pythagoras come into italy . after this , phalaris could neither kill , nor be kill●d , but in a romance ; and i take all this story of jamblichus to be no other . for the rest of the 218 names of disciples in his catalogue , i can bring none of them within the time of pythagoras's life , but milo , and parmenides , whom i mention in my account in the years 539 , and 504 before christ. there are scarce two more of them that ever saw pythagoras , for ought that appears in any good author : though here are the names of several more that were philosophers of the pythagorean sect. yet even these , together with them before mention'd , will not make up the odd number of eighteen . for the other two hundred , i take them to be insignificant names , invented by jamblichus only out of vain ostentation . to conclude , i do not lay any weight at all upon the testimony of jamblichus , nor much on that of his master porphyry , where he doth not mention his author . but i quote them sometimes in the following account , as in a history of the british kings i would geoffry of monmouth . but then naming my author , for want of a better , where i think what he says may be true , i should leave all i said from him to the reader , with a perfect indifference whether he believ'd him or not . with the like indifference , as to every thing but what i have scripture for , i commit these papers into your hands ; desiring you to take them only as my opinion , which is all that you ask of , sir , your affectionate friend , and servant , w. cov. and lich. mar. 30. 1699. a chronological account of the life of pythagoras , and of other famous men his contemporaries . pythagoras's age of pythagoras the samian philosopher years before christ olympiads there is nothing said by any of the ancients , that i know , which can make us think he was born before olymp xliii , save only that of plin. nat. hist. ii. 8. who says , that in olymp. xlii , and v. c. 142 , he first found that venus was sometimes the morning star , and sometimes the evening star. but it is not improbable that in this pliny might mistake pythagoras for his master thales , of whom see the year 585 before christ. n. pythagoras born this year , if years before christ 605 olympiads 43 , 3 , 4. he was the same that is here mention'd in the year 588 before christ. this year also suits best with antilochus's account , which follows in 583 before christ. years before christ 604 olympiads 44 θ. nabopolassar king of babylon . next his son nabocolassar or nebuchadnezzar , who had reigned about two years with his father . this year jan. 21 , was his first thoth , according to ptol. canon . years before christ olympiads 45 n. pherecydes , born this year . suidas . he was born in the isle of syrus one of the cyclades . strabo x. pythagoras was at first his disciple . cicero tusc. qu. i. diod. sic. excerpt . and many others . years before christ 594 , 3. olympiads 46 , 3. solon was this year archon at athens . diog. laert. from sosicrates . so euseb. chronicon in 1 ms. clem. alexandr . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 saith , he was archon in olymp. xlvi . he made his laws in the time of tarquinius priscus . a. gellius xvii , 21. he made them the year that he was archon , and that with the help of epimenides , who came thither from crete , and having expiated the city in olymp. xliv , as suidas saith , or in olymp. xlv , as eus. chron. pontaci , or olymp. xlvi , as laertius , returned home , and died soon after . d. laert. l. 110 , being 154 years old , as xenophanes said he had heard . ib. iii. of xenophanes see in the year 540 before christ. years before christ 592 olympiads 47 anacharsis scytha now came to athens , eucrates being archon . d. laert. 1. 101. years before christ 588 olympiads 48 pythagoras samius offer'd himself to play at fisticuffs among the boys at the olympic games ; but having long hair , and wearing purple , he was rejected with reproach . therefore he went from them among the men ; and there offering himself at the same exercise , he was victor . this was our philosopher , according to d. laert. viii , 48. who hath all this from eratosthenes , favorinus , and theaetetus . iamblichus hath the same ; and many others . eratosthenes says farther , that our philosopher was the first that boxed according to art. yet d. laert. cites a poet , that saith this was pythagoras , son of crateus . hesychius saith , they are mistaken that think it was the philosopher . pythagoras's age 1 n. pythagoras , son of mnesarchus , years before christ 586 , 5. olympiads 48 , 3. ( descended from hippasus , who was formerly of phlius ) by pythaïs , who was descended from ancaeus one of the planters of samos . there most writers say he was born : though porphyry would have him born at tyre , and jamblichus at sidon , perhaps as being the ancienter city . it seems there were other pretenders to the honour of being his countrymen : for joseph . in ap. 11. saith , it is as hard to tell his country as homer's but yet it is harder to tell the year of his birth . i am doubtfull whether it ought not to be the year 605 before christ. but i rather place it here , for reasons that will appear afterwards in the years 506 and 497 before christ. pythagoras's age 2 θ. periander died 40 years before years before christ 585 olympiads 48 , 4. croesus , and 1 year before olymp. xlix . d. laert. 1 , 95. from sosicrates . he had reigned at corinth 44 years . arist. pol. v , 12. of the vii wise men of greece , he was the first that died . the other vi were thales , solon , cleobulus , chilo , bias , and pittacus , thus reckon'd by diog. laert. prooem . 13 , and 1.40 , 1 , 2. olympiads 48 , 4. thales this year foretold an eclipse of pythagoras's age 2 the sun. he was the first among the greeks that could do this . cicero de divin . i. years before christ 583 , 2. olympiads 49 , 2. pythagorae 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , according to antilochus , pythagoras's age 4 who in his history of learned men reckon'd 312 years from hence to epicurus's death , which was ( 270 years before christ ) olymp. cxxvii , 2. gamelion 10. cic. de fato . d. laert. x , 15. and clem. alex. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . years before christ 580 , 79. olympiads 50 n. aristeas proconnesius was born this pythagoras's age 7 olymp. suidas . it was after olymp. l. that pythagoras came into italy , saith d. halicarn . lib. 11. p. 120. but h. valesius , and menagius think this is a mistake of olymp. n̄ . instead of olymp. ξ years before christ 578 olympiads 50 , 3. θ. tarquinius priscus died . next king pythagoras's age 9 servius tullius . dion . hal. iii. years before christ 572 olympiads 52 began the tyranny of phalaris , according pythagoras's age 15 to suidas , and eus. chron. pontaci , which saith it continued 16 years . eus. chron. in a former account hath his tyranny , according to scaliger's edition , beginning olymp. xxxi , 2 , and ending olymp . xxxviii , 2. here also according to scaliger it should be liii , 4. pythagoras's age 15 anacreon teius lived in this olymp. olympiads 52 it was in polycrates's time . suidas . pythagoras's age 15 aesop the fable-maker now flourish'd . olympiads 52 d. laert 1 , 72. pythagoras's age 17 θ. pittacus died at mitylene . d. laert . years before christ 570 olympiads 52 , 3. 1 , 79. pythagoras's age 17 pythagoras , being 18 years old , went years before christ 568 , 7. olympiads 53 , 1. to travel as on the account of his studies . jamblichus c. 2. for which , by thales , he was advised to go to aegypt . ib. d. laert . viii , 2. saith , he was then a young man , and addicted to learning . but his going for aegypt , was to avoid the growing tyranny of polycrates . strabo xiv . and jamblichus c. 2. yet polycrates writ a letter in his commendation to king amasis , being his friend and hospes , desiring him to get him instructed by the aegyptian priests . d. laert. and porph. from antipho . iamblichus c. 2. saith , he went first to pherecydes , then to anaximander , then to thales . id. c. 3. then to sidon , to byblus , to tyre , and many other cities of syria : in all which places he was initiated . then he took ship for aegypt : but by the way he landed , and went up mount carmel . iamblichus , c. 3. he came into aegypt . isocr . de laud. busiridis . cic. de finibus v. strab. xiv . plin. xxv , 2. lucian , tatian , clem. alex . he gave polycrates's letter to amasis , and obtained amasis's letter to the aegyptian priests . d. laert. and porph. from antipho . with this letter he came first to them of heliopolis : they sent him to them of memphis , their seniors : they to the diospolites ; who at first were very shy ; but , fearing to displease amasis , they undertook him , thinking at first to balk him with their austerities . but he underwent all , saith porphyry from antipho . he was circumcised , and initiated in their sacred rites . clement . alex. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . he learnt the aegyptian language , he learnt their three sorts of letters . they admitted him to their sacrifices , and exercises of learning ; which none ever obtain'd before . d. laert. from antipho . he learnt of their priests the manner of their sacrifices , and their religious rites . isocr . de l. busir . he read the books of their ancient priests , clem. alex. he learnt their geometry , and astronomy . jambl. c. 4. he got the observations of infinite ages . valer. maximus , viii , 7. he was in aegypt a long time , as all confess . plut. q. symposiac . viii , 8.22 years saith jambl. c. 4. this i believe was all the time of his eastern travels . he also went to the king of arabia , and learnt all he could there . porph. strabo xiv . p. 439 , 18 , &c. saith , from a●gypt he went to babylon . there he was with the chaldees and magi. d. laert. there at babylon he learnt of several of the chaldees ; particularly of zabratus , by whom he was purged from all the desilements of his former life . porph. he was disciple of nazaratus the assyrian . clem. alex. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . he went to the persian magi. cic. de finibus v. plin. xxv , 2. of them he learnt matters of their religion , and way of living . d. laert. from lycus . there he came to learn and understand the jewish knowledge , particularly their oniromancy . porphyry from diogen . in his return from babylon , he came to crete to get minos's laws . justin , v , 4. after his being with the chaldees and magi , he was there in crete with epimenides . d. laert. viii , 3. he was purged by the priests of morgus , one of the idaean dactyli . porph. he went into the idaean cave . ib. the priests there have the verses that he made on the sepulchre of jupiter . ib. after his return from babylon , he came home to samos . strabo xiv . so d. laert. and porph. from antipho . there he open'd a school in a place call'd in antipho's time , pythagorae hemicyclus . d. laert . and porph. from antipho . there he also had a cave without the town , into which he retir'd for his studies . id. and id. this is the summ of what we read of the life of pythagoras for the space of 22 years , that is , as i account it , from the year before christ 568 , till the year 546 before christ. pythagoras's age 24 abaris priest of apollo hyperboreus , years before christ 563 , 2. olympiads 54 , 2. came into greece . eus. chron. scaligeri , and two mss. other mss bring him 10 years sooner . harpocration from pindar faith , he came in the time of croesus . years before christ 562 olympiads 54 , 2 , 3. the first comedy at athens was made pythagoras's age 24 by susarion , and acted upon a movable scaffold . chron. marmor . years before christ 561 olympiads 54 , 3 , 4. θ. nabocolassar or nebucadnezzar king of babylon . next his son iluarodam or evil merodach . this year jan. 1● . was his first thoth according to ptolemee's canon . years before christ 561 olympiads 54 , 3 , 4. croesus began his reign of 14 years . pythagoras's age 25 herod . 1.86 . pisistratus was now tyrantat athens . chron. marm. θ. aesop died . eus. chron. cleobulus was yet living at lindus , if his epistle to solon be true , which we have in d. laert. 1.93 . years before christ 560 olympiads 55 θ. astyages king of media . next his pythagoras's age 26 son cyaxares . xen. 1. scripture calls him darius the mede . africanus saith all agree that cyrus son of cambyses , by mandane , daughter of astyages , began his reign over the persians in olymp. lv. years before christ 559 olympiads 55 , 1 , 2. θ. iluarodam kill'd by his sister's husband neriglissoroor . beros . next king of babylon ; this neriglissoroor or nergal-sharezer . his first thoth was jan. 10. this year in ptol. canon . years before christ 559 olympiads 55 , 1 , 2. θ. solon died in cyprus this spring . pythagoras's age 27 see it proved in vss. annals . he died 2 pisistrati plut. in solon . years before christ 557 olympiads 55 , 4. n. simonides born this year ; for he pythagoras's age 30 was 80 years old in olymp. lxxvi , when adimantus was archon , as himself saith ▪ and so chron. marm. years before christ 556 olympiads 56 θ. phalaris died this year , if he began , pythagoras's age 31 as is above-said , in olymp. lii ; or if in olymp. liii , 4 , then he died seven year later . the people of agrigentum rose against him , and kill'd him . cic. offic . 11. pythagoras's age 31 θ. stesichorus died this year . suidas . years before christ 556 olympiads 56 the lowest account of his death in eus. chron. is olymp. lvi , 2. the highest is olymp. liv , 4. this year euthydemus was archon at years before christ 556 olympiads 56 athens . chron. marm. and the year that he was archon , chilo was ephorus at lacedaemon . d. laert. 1.68 from sosicrates . θ. laborosoarchod son of neriglissoroor years before christ 555 olympiads 56 , 2. having reigned 9 months after his father . next king of babylon , nabonadius or labynitus , called belshazzar in scripture . his first thoth was jan. 9 , according to ptol. canon . pythagoras's age 36 n. confutius born this year , the years before christ 551 olympiads 57 , 2. great philosopher of the chineses . martin . hist. sin. pythagoras's age 39 croesus past over the river halys on a years before christ 548 olympiads 58 bridge built by the art of thales . herod . 1.75 . and so lost himself and his kingdom , after 14 years reign . herod . 1 , 86. that was this year according to my account from herodotus . pythagoras's age 39 θ. thales died this year , saith d. laert . olympiads 58 1.38 . and eus. chron. scal. & pont. from 4 mss. he was born in olymp. xxxv , and died 90 years old . d. laert. 1 , 38.91 years old , saith chron. paschale . pythagoras's age 39 anaximander succeeded him in the ionic olympiads 58 school . d. laert. prooem . now flourish'd lasus of hermione , that first wrote of musick . schol. arist. in vespas . years before christ 547 olympiads 58 , 2. now anaximander was famous , being 64 years old ; and he died a little after , pythagoras's age 40 saith diog. laert. ii , 2. from apollodorus . he flourish'd chiefly under polycrates tyrant of samos . ib. xenophanes lived in his time . d. laert. ix , 18. but his successor in the school was anaximenes . xanthus the lydian historian liv'd at the time when sardes was taken . suidas . years before christ 546 , 5. olympiads 58 , 3. pythagoras , being 40 years old , and seeing it was not for a freeman to live in his country under the tyranny of polycrates , which was now stricter than formerly ; thereupon thought of going into italy . d. laert. and porph. from aristoxenus ; and strabo xiv . without the year . in his way thither he went to delos , where he writ those verses on apollo's sepulchre . porph. from diog. he went to lacedaemon for the laws of lycurgus . iust. v , 4. he came to phlius the ancient country of his family . there being asked by leo , tyrant of that city , what profession he was of , he said , of none ; but that he was a philosopher . see the rest in cic. tusc. qu. v. or in d. laert . prooem . 12. who saith this was at sicyon , and who makes leo tyrant of sicyon and phlius . both cic. and d. laert. prooem . have it from heraclides . but d. laert. viii , 8. hath much the same story from sosicrates , pythagoras went also to delphi to give the more authority to his laws , by pretending that he receiv'd them from theoclea , or themistoclea , the priestess of apollo in that place . d. laert. viii . 7 , 21. from aristoxenus . porphyry calls her aristoclea . being come into italy , he lived there all the rest of his life . strabo xiv . he taught there 40 years wanting one , saith jamb . c. 36 , who makes his whole life very near 100 years . ib. he stay'd 20 years at croton , then went to metapontum , where he died . justin , xx , 5. at croton he began the italic school , which grew old at metapontum , saith clem. alex . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . croton was then in great glory for having so many of pythagoras's scholars in it , among whom was milo the most famous athleta : strabo iv. dion . halicarn . saith pythagoras was in his 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , four generations after numa . it is to be considered , whether he reckons from the beginning of his reign , which was in olymp. xvi , 3. or whether from the end , which was olymp. xxvii , i. plut in the life of numa saith , pythagoras came into italy almost five ages after numa . livy 1.18 . saith , he came into italy above 100 years after numa ; accounting no doubt from his death in 672 before christ. livy saith farther , it is certain , that in the time of servius tullius , pythagoras had his colleges of disciples at metapontum , heraclea , and croton , as above-mention'd . years before christ 545 olympiads 58 , 4. now the medes were coming up against pythagoras's age 42 the ionians , of which anaximenes writes to pythagoras , who was then at croton , and had his house full of scholars out of italy and sicily , if the epistle be genuine . d. laert. ii , 5. years before christ 544 olympiads 59 pherecydes was yet living . d. laert. pythagoras's age 43 i , 121. now he flourish'd according to eus. chron. he lived in the time of my gentilis , ( that is , of servius tullius , ) saith cicero , tusc. qu. i. theognis the poet of megara flourish'd now . eus. chron. pontaci . years before christ 541 olympiads 59 , 4. bias was yet living , if that be true pythagoras's age 46 which is said of him in herod . 1. that he advised the iones to leave their country to the medes , and go all to sardinia . years before christ 540 olympiads 60 pythagoras now flourish'd . d. laert. pythagoras's age 47 viii . 45. now also xenophanes colophonius flourish'd d. laert. ix . 20. of whom see before in 547 , before christ. he was now at least 80 years old , according to sextus empiricus , and clem. alex. from apollodor . that place him in olymp. xl. but he was a writer till after he was 98 years old . d. laert. ix . 19. now ibycus , the poet of rhegium , came to samos . eus. chron. scalig. & pontac . years before christ 538 olympiads 60 , 2 , 3. after belshazzar's being slain in the taking of babylon by the armies of darius and cyrus , the next king of babylon was darius or cyaxares according to xenophon . his reign being short , he is omitted in the canon , and there the next is cyrus , whose thoth was jan. 5. θ. cambyses father of cyrus in persia , years before christ 536 olympiads 61 and θ cyaxares in media . xenophon . viii . according to whom this is the first of the seven years reign of cyrus at babylon . pythagoras's age 51 pythagoras was now famous in italy , years before christ 536 olympiads 61 thericles being archon at athens . diod. sic. excerpta . p. 241. the first tragedy at athens , was made by thespis , and acted on a wagon , in olymp. lxi . suid. see chron marm. pythagoras's age 53 θ. servius tullius died this year . liv. years before christ 534 olympiads 61 , 3. 1.48 . after whom the next roman king was tarquinius superbus . in this tarquin's time pythagoras came into italy according to cic. tusc. qu. i. and a. gellius , xvii , 21. pythagoras's age 55 eus. chron. hath this year polycrates , years before christ 532 olympiads 62 and his two brothers syloson and pantagnotus tyrants together at samos . but polycrates drove out his two brothers soon after . now in polycrates's time pythagoras flourish'd . tatian . p. 174. b. clem. alex . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . cyril . contra julian . ii. in this olympiad , in which eryxias was victor ; pythagoras came into italy , saith jambl. c. 7. he was now famous , saith eus. chron. pythagoras's age 58 cyrus being now dead , his son cambyses years before christ 529 olympiads 62 , 3 , 4. is king of persia. his first thoth was jan. 3. according to ptol. canon . pythagoras's age 59 θ. pisistratus tyrant of athens died years before christ 528 olympiads 63 after a reign of 33 years , tho' twice interrupted in that time . arist. polit. v. 12. next was his son hipparchus , a great lover of learning . he first brought homer's poems to athens . plato in hipparcho . years before christ 527 olympiads 63 , 1 , 2. according to justin , xx , 5. pythagoras pythagoras's age 60 after he had been 20 years in italy , removed from croton to metapontum , and died there . it was at metapontum , that as the fablers say , having taken his disciple abaris's arrow , he rode upon it in the air from thence to taurominium in one day , though some days sailing distant from one another . ponph . and jambl. they tell us , that there at metapontum , he had a noble house , which was afterwards the temple of ceres , and a school . which was call'd the museum . iambl . c. 30. years before christ 525 olympiads 63 , 3 , 4. θ. amasis king of aegypt . he died pythagoras's age 62 olymp. i. xiii , 3. when cambyses was coming against aegypt . diod. sic. 1. the next king psammenitus after 6 months was kill'd , and aegypt conquer'd by cambyses . herod . iii. years before christ 525 olympiads 63 , 4. n. the poet aeschylus was born . chr. pythagoras's age 62 marm. years before christ 523 olympiads 64 , 2. θ. polycrates tyrant of samos died pythagoras's age 64 a few days before cambyses king of persia . herod . iii. 120. about v. c. 238. plin. xxxiii , 1. years before christ 522 olympiads 64 , 2 , 3. θ. cambyses king of persia. next king smerdis magus was kill'd after seven months . next was darius son of hystaspes . his first thoth was 521. jan. 1. according to ptolemey's canon . years before christ 520 olympiads 65 n. the poet pindar was born suidas . pythagoras's age 67 years before christ 515 olympiads 66 , 2. θ. pherecydes died now , for he was pythagoras's age 72 born olymp. xlv . suid. and lived 85 years . lucian in macrob. he was eat up with lice . arist. hist. animal . v. 30 ▪ and that for his blasphemy . aelian . iv , 28. serpents came out of his body . plin. vii , 5. pythagoras , who had been his disciple , now hearing that he was dying in delos , went out of italy thither , and did all he could to recover him : and when he was dead , bury'd him as his father , and then return'd into italy . diod. sic. excerpt . that he dy'd in delos , see apul. florid. ii. aelian iv. hist. 28. porph. and jambl. duris samius saith he died in samos , follow'd by d. laert. i , 119. where also he quotes heraclides for it . porphyry saith , that pythagoras went to delos from samos , and return'd to samos . but he saith afterwards , that it was in pythagoras's absence on this occasion at delos , that cylon rais'd the mob , v. infra 497 , 6. before christ. ( these things do not agree . ) pythagoras's age 74 θ. hipparchus kill'd by harmodius years before christ 513 olympiads 66 , 4. and aristogiton . thucyd. i , and vi. then was pythagoras in italy . a. gell. xvii , 21. pythagoras's age 78 by pythagoras's advice the people of years before christ 509 olympiads 67 , 4. croton would not deliver up some of sybaris that had fled to their altars for protection against their own people . whereupon a war follow'd , in which 300000 of the sybarites were overcome by milo with 100000 of croton , who after this victory destroy'd the city of sybaris . diod . sic. olymp. lxxxiii , 3. where he saith , this happen'd 58 years before , and 5 years , that is in all 63 years before . therefore i place it in olymp. lxvii , 4. this milo was disciple of pythagoras , and had been 6 times victor in the olympic games . ib. and often at the other publick games . years before christ 508 olympiads 68 when brutus deliver'd rome , pythagoras pythagoras's age 79 was yet in italy , saith cic. tusc. qu. iv. solinus c. 16. by mistake saith , then he came into italy . years before christ 506 , 5. olympiads 68 , 3. θ. pythagoras died . eus. chron. in pythagoras's age 81 2 mss. having lived 80 years , according to his own account of the four parts of mans life , consisting each of 20 years . d. laert. 1 , 44. from heraclides . this account of his age menage takes to be the most likely , because lucian doth not reckon pythagoras among the long-liv'd men ; as probably he would if pythagoras had lived 90 years , as most say , according to d. laert. ib. much more , if he had lived , as jamblichus saith , very near 100 ; or as tzetzes says , perhaps from jamblichus , 100 wanting one ; or according to the nameless writer in photii biblioth . ccxlix . 104 years ; or according to a nameless writer in galen's works 117 years . but if the reader is not yet tir'd , i will go on with him to the end of the 90 years , which is as far as i see any ground . years before christ 505 , 4. olympiads 68 , 4. here the death of pythagoras is plac'd in one ms of eus. chron. years before christ 504 years before christ 69 heraclitus now flourish'd . d. laert. pythagoras's age 83 ix . beginning . parmenides now flourish'd . d. laert. ix , 23. now cynaethus chius first rhapsodied homer's verses . schol. in pindar . nem. b. years before christ 502 olympiads 69 , 2. hecataeus the historian flourish'd ; pythagoras's age 85 for now he endeavour'd to disswade aristagoras from taking arms against darius king of persia , herodot . v. 36. pythagoras's age 87 n. anaxagoras the philosopher years before christ 500 olympiads 70 born this year . d. laert. ii , 7. from apollodorus . this is confirm'd by democritus saying of himself , tha●●e was 40 years younger than anaxagora● d. laert. v. 41. for democritus was born olymp. lxxx . ib. pythagoras's age 89 mariana's copy of eus. chron. places years before christ 498 , 7. olympiads 70 , 3. the death of pythagoras this year . pythagoras's age 90 θ. pythagoras died eus. chron. scal. years before christ 497 , 6. olympiads 70 , 4. and pontac . from 4 mss. most say he lived 90 years . d. laert. iii. 44. the accounts of his death are various . the likeliest is that which we have in the excerpta of diod. sic. porphyry , and jambl. c. 35. they tell how one cylon of croton , a rich , ambitious , boisterous man , having offer'd himself to be taken into the college , and being refus'd , was thereby so enraged , that he got the mob together , and fell upon milo's house , when pythagoras and his disciples were all there together , and burnt the house , and all that were in it , except two or three that narrowly escaped . some say pythagoras was one of them that were burnt there . others say , he escaped out of the fire , and was kill'd in pursuit . others , that he fled to caulonia , thence to locri , thence to tarentum ; but being no where receiv'd , at last he went to metapontum , and there got into the muses temple , where being kept from victuals 40 days , he was starved . hermippus , whom josephus calleth the most eminent writer of pythag. life , hath a most unlikely story of his death . he saith that being ingag'd with ●he agrigentines against the syracusans , and his party , being worsted , he was taken in flight because he would not run over a bean plot , and so was kill'd by the enemy . d. laert. hath an epigram on his death , according to this story , which i think indeed is fitter for a poet than an historian . after his death , those of his disciples that were living , are said to have been dispersed into greece , and the neighbouring countries . and yet his family is said to have continued at or about croton . his wife theano was born there , according to clem. alex. from didymus , and d. laert. and suidas . but porphyry says she was of crete . some say that she , and her son telauges , revived or continued his school . others say it was done by aristaeus of croton , that married his daugh. theano . his son arimnestus is mention'd by porphyry from duris samius , and said to have taught democritus the famous philosopher . d. laert . mentions his son marmacus , and d. damo . suidas seems to call that son mnesarchus , and also mentions his d. arignote , and myia . another d. of his is call'd sara . but of all these we have nothing that looks like a certainty , in my opinion . finis . errata . p. vii . l. 2. have also from . p. ix . l. 12. for lvii , r. lxii . p. 5. l. 1. for 5 2. r. 52. p. 10. l. 12.41 should be in lin . 15. p. 11. l. 22. r. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . n. is here put for the birth , and θ. for the death of any person . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a48814-e220 * jonsius de script . hist. philos . viii , 2. herod 11. diod. sic. philostr . vit . apoll. ty. iii. 6. porph. p. 188. porph. p. 201. schol. in sophoclis electram . diog. laert viii , 4. schol. in apoll. argonaut i. d. laert. viii , 4. d laert. viii . 14. porph. p. 191. jambl. c. 28. herod . ii. diog. laert from heraclides . porph. p 191. d. laert. viii . 36. philostr . iii. 707. vi. 18. v. 15. diog. laert . viii . 41. from hermippus . chrysost. hom. ii. in joh. cyril . in julian iii. porph. p. 193. jambl. c. 28. p. 194. porph. p 191 , 192. jambl. c. 28. porph. ib. & jambl. c. 13. jambl . c. 28. porph. p. 190. 1 cor. i. 21. acts iv. 13. v. hierocl . infra , & julian . apost . in spanheim's edition of cyril . lib. x. p. 327. john xx. 30 , 31. mar. xvi . 20. 1 cor. xv. 6. v. uss. annal . a. d. 54. & pearson . posthum . act ▪ ii. 32. iv. 33. v. 32. john ix . 47. acts iv. 16. mat. ix . 34. xii . 24. mat. xxvi . 59 , 60. luke xxiii . 14. origen . contra celsum . i. p. 30 , 55. ii. p. 93 , 94. p. xx , xxv . origen . contra celsum . iii. p. 126 , 127. & viii p. 407. origen contra cels. i. p. 8. orig. cont . cels. i. p. xvii . origin . contra cels. iii p. 125 , 129. orig. cont . cel. iii. 125 , 129. herod . iv. orig cont . cels. iii. p. 129. holstein de vitâ & scriptis porph. c. 10. hieron . praef . dan. de vit . & scr . porphyr c 4. euseb. hist. vi. 19. porph. v. plotini , p. 4. euseb. hist. vii . 12. viii 4. ho●st ib. c 10 de vit . & scr. porph. c. 7. p. xiii . lact. de justit . v. 2. lact. de mort . perfec c 16. euseb. de mart. palaest . c. 5. eus. cont . hier. edit . oxon . 8 o. p. 264. gal. 6.11 . act. 22.3 . act. 26.24 . rom. 3.8 . 2 pet. 3.3 . 2 tim 4.6 . 2 pet. 1.14 . philost . viii . 12. philost . i. 3. ib. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ib. i , 3. i , 2. philostr . soph. ii. p. 617. he writ a book of love-epistles . suid. i , 1. iv , 3. iv. 8. empusa . p. ix . c. 1 c. 1. iv. 3. iv. 5. iii , 8. vi , 5. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . p. xxxi . i , 4. viii , 12. i , 9. tac● ann. ii. 42. tac annal ii , 42. p. xxix . viii , 12. viii , 12. p. v. i , 1 , 2. euseb. in hier. i , ●3 . p. 25. i , 2 , 3. vii , 1. iii , 13. lucian in pseudo-mant . p. 476. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 p. xxx . p. xxix . philost . soph. ii. p. ●●● eus. hist vi. phil. vit . apol. l. 18 , 24. sext. empir . pyrth . iii , 24. i , 3. more 's mystery of godliness , iv , 3 , 4. v , 7 , 1. phil. viii . 13. eus. hist. vi , 21. lampr. alex . a. § 29. mystery of godliness , v , 7 , 8. vopisc . divus aurel . c. 24. mr. dodwell 's praelect . prooem . in hist. aug. v. 6. v. lact. de mort . perfec . juliani epist xxxiv ▪ xl , xli , liii , lx , lxi . juliani orat . iv. crat vii . ib. jambl. vit . pyth c. 2 p. 28. c. 2. p. 29. ib. p. viii . p. vi , vii , viii . p. 43. c. 27. p. 127. c. 19. p. 94. p. xiii . c. 19. p. 94. c. 2. p. 31. l. 5. c. 4. p. 36. l. 27. c. 4. ending . c. 5. beginning . c. 7. p. 47. l. 23. c. 36. p. 220. l. 4. c. 30. p. 154. l. 22. c. 23. p. 103 ▪ l. 15. herodot . iv , 56. c 23. p. 103. l. 11 , 15. dissert . p. 362. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . porph. vit . pyth. p. 193. jambl. c. 28. p. 127 , 128. p. xi . viii , 3. c. 23. p. 103. l. 15. d. laert. viii , 56. ibidem . viii , 74. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , p. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . c. 19. p. 92. l. 32. p. 93. l. 10. c. 28. p. 131. l. 28. c. 36 p. 221 , &c. a sermon preached before the king at white-hall the 24th. of novemb. 1678. by william lloyd, d.d. dean of bangor, and chaplain in ordinary to his majesty. published by his majesties command. lloyd, william, 1627-1717. 1678 approx. 129 kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from 37 1-bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : 2004-03 (eebo-tcp phase 1). a48849 wing l2710 estc r217682 99829336 99829336 33773 this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons 0 1.0 universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase 1, no. a48849) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set 33773) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, 1641-1700 ; 1869:24) a sermon preached before the king at white-hall the 24th. of novemb. 1678. by william lloyd, d.d. dean of bangor, and chaplain in ordinary to his majesty. published by his majesties command. lloyd, william, 1627-1717. 72 p. printed by m.c. for henry brome, at the gun at the west-end of st. pauls, london : 1678. running title reads: a sermon preached at white-hall. reproduction of the original in the british library. created by converting tcp files to tei p5 using tcp2tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between 1473 and 1700 available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the 25,363 texts created during phase 1 of the project have been released into the public domain as of 1 january 2015. anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. 5% (or 5 pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of 100 instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level 4 of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p5, characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng sermons, english -17th century. 2003-11 tcp assigned for keying and markup 2003-12 aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images 2004-01 olivia bottum sampled and proofread 2004-01 olivia bottum text and markup reviewed and edited 2004-02 pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a sermon preached before the king at white-hall . the 24 th . of novemb. 1678. by william lloyd , d. d. dean of bangor , and chaplain in ordinary to his majesty . published by his majesties command . london , printed by m. c. for henry brome , at the gun at the west-end of st. pauls . 1678. a sermon on acts ii . 42. and they continued stedfastly , in the apostles doctrin , and fellowship and in breaking of bread , and in prayer . they of whom this is said , were that multitude of people whom the apostles first converted to the christian faith. all together in one word , they are called the church in the last verse of this chapter . which being observed , it will soon appear what we are to learn from these words . they teach us , first , what the church of christ was in the apostles days . secondly , what church is now a true member or branch of it . thirdly , that , having such a church , it is our duty to continue in it . accordingly in my discourse on these words , i shall endeavour to shew you , first , a description of that original church by all it's tokens and characters ; which are described in my text to have been , first , the apostles doctrin , secondly , their fellowship , thirdly , their sacraments breaking of bread , fourthly , their worship of god , and prayers . second●y , i shall consider what church in our days hath those characters of the original church . i shall shew , they are very confused in that church which will own them in no other : they are through gods blessing , in great purity and perfection in our church . lastly , i shall shew that it is the duty of every christian to continue stedfastly ; first in the church that hath these characters , and secondly in these things that are the characters of the church , and thirdly to live sutably to them in his whole conversation . first , be●●re i speak of the characters of a true church , i ought to shew in few words what it is that is to be known by them . the church , ecclesia , among christians in the largest use of the word , is the whole multitude of believers joyned together in one body or society under one head iesus christ. in the nicene creed it is called , the catholic apostolic church . apostolic , because it was planted at first by the apostles , and still retains the characters of their original church . catholic , that is , universal ; ( for that is the plainer english word , ) because it is made up of all those particular churches , of which every one hath these characters in my text , and is therefore a true part of the catholic or universal . for the word catholic , as fond of it as they are now in the roman church , if any christian of rome , for some ages after christ , had heard any one say i am a catholic , he would not have been able to have guest what religion he had meant . but when the greeks had used the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in their language ; first , to distinguish the christian church as extending to all nations , from the jewish which was confined to one nation in particular ; afterwards to distinguish the common christianity , which was in all parts of the world , from that of a sect which sprang up in some particular country : after this , the word catholic was taken up by them of the roman church . and in process of time they came to distinguish themselves by it , from the greeks , and from those of the other eastern churches that first used it . it could not but seem very strange to the greeks , to see them of the roman church , whose communion extended no farther at that time , than only to the west part of europe ; that they should call the roman church the catholic , or universal , in opposition to the greeks , and to all other christians , that then possest , not only all the rest of this europe , but all that was christian in afric and asia besides . but this is not strange to any one that considers , how natural it is for men of any sect to make a great business about words . as they are apt to bestow the worst words they can find upon their adversaries , so with the same partiality they are ready to appropriate the good ones to themselves . thus the jews will have none but themselves to be the children of abraham . the turks will have none but themselves to be called musulmans , believers , the arrian heretics , in their day , would allow none but themselves to be catholics , a if they of the roman communion will be the only catholics now , who can help it ? but we shall not allow it them , till they can prove all other christians to be schismatics , and us in particular ; which will be tried in the issue of this discourse . the mean while to give the word its original use , the catholic church ( as i have shewn ) signifies the universal . and by the universal church b we mean that which from this head in my text came to disperse it self into all parts of the inhabited world. the original of this church universal was that church which the apostles planted first at ierusalem ; therein following the command of our saviour who bade them , go , preach to all nations , beginning at ierusalem . the body of this universal church consists of all those , whether national , or less , that are called particular churches . which were either derived from that original church in that age ; such as were , those seven churches of asia , and the rest which are mentioned in scripture : or that have been deri●ed from th●m by any after conversion , in whatsoever country or age. these particular churches are many , as the parts of the body are many . and as all those parts together are one body , so all these particular churches make up one universal . one i say , in both respects , both as being derived from one source , that original church at ierusalem : and also one , as being united together in those common characters , by which that original church is described in this text. those characters are four , which i come now to consider particularly ; the apostles doctrin , and fellowship , and sacraments , and prayers . the first is the apostles doctrin , the doctrin of faith ; and not the inward belief , but the outward profession of it . the inward belief is required to make us true christians , but the outward profession makes us members of a true church . and as it can be no true church that has not a public profession of the apostles doctrin ; so it can be no sound church that embraces any other for the doctrin of faith , then what was received from the apostles . now their doctrin , at this time referred to in my text , was no other than what they preached as the faith of iesus christ. but considering how long ago it was that they preached ; how many ages have past since ; and especially what ages they have been ; many ages together , of darkness and gross ignorance , as they cannot but know , that are any thing acquainted with a history ; i say , after so many extreme ignorant ages , it is impossible we should have known what was preached by the apostles , unless it had been also delivered in writing , and unless those writings had been brought down to our hands . and , blessed be god! there was such a delivery , in the books of the new testament . in which books , the apostles bearing witness , as they do , to the scriptures of the old testament , that they were b written by divine inspiration , and that they c are able to make us wise to salvation through faith in iesus christ ; and delivering the faith in iesus christ , as they do , in their own writings , to the end d that all men may believe on him to eternal life ; therefore in these books of the old and new testament together , we have a standard of the apostles doctrine ; and we have not the like for any other than what is written in these books . here is all that we can surely call the doctrine of the apostles , unless we know more than the fathers of the primitive church . they through whose hands this doctrine must pass , before it could come into ours , knew nothing but what they had in the scriptures . this was constantly their standard and rule of all things , in the words of st. chrysostom a who says again , b all things that are necessary , are plain and manifest in the scriptures . so st. austin says , c all things that belong to faith or life are to be found in plain places of scripture . st. basil saith , d believe those things that are written , inquire not into things that are not written . st. ierom , e non credimus quia non legimus ; we believe no more than we ●ead . in like manner say many other of the fathers . and though they did sometimes quote the apostles traditions , for ritual things ; yet in matters of faith , if they prove any thing from tradition , it is either the written tradition of scripture ; of if unwritten , 't is no other than the creed ( as it were easie to shew in many instances . ) a and withal they believed there was nothing in the creed but what they could prove from the scriptures ; and they did prove it from the scriptures upon occasion in every particular . b so that in their judgment , it is not only a sufficient , but the only measure of the doctrin of the apostles . and by this we may judg ( as to matter of doctrin ) who are , and who are not members of the apostolical church . the next character is this , that they continued in the apostles 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or fellowship ; a word that has diverse senses in scripture . in this place it seems to be the same as society . they were in the apostles society or communion . now to continue in their society ( considering what they were , men deputed by christ for the government of his church ; ) it could be no other than to continue as members of that body which christ put under their government . but how can any be so now ? they being dead so many ages since , and their government so long since expired with them . no , their government is not expired , though they are . for it was to continue a till the end of the world. so that according to the common saying among the jews , whosoever one sends being as himself : so our saviour having sent the apostles saith , b whosoever receives you , receives me ; in like manner , whosoever were sent by the apostles , were as themselves ; and whosoever continued in their fellowship , were in the fellowship of the apostles . now their government is declared to have been 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , their bishopric . c and in this office they were equal among themselves ; as our saviour describes them , sitting on twelve thrones , and judging the twelve tribes of israel . d it is observable that this was after his promise to st. peter , mat. xvi . 16 , &c. which promise i consider , by the way , because 't is so much pressed by the romanists , to prove a power , which christ had given st. peter over the rest of the apostles . if christ had truly given it , we must then have considered , whether st. peter left any successors in that power ? and if so , why not st. iohn the apostle by survivance ? why not the bishop of the undoubted mother-church at ierusalem ? why not the bishop of some other city , where the scripture has assured us that st. peter preacht ? rather than of rome , where if he did preach , we have not a word of it in scripture . these and sundry more such questions would have risen upon that hypothesis , of such a power given to s. peter . but it is out of question that the apostles never so understood those words of christ. they knew of no power that was promised to st. peter more than to themselves in that text. for after this , a they were at strife among themselves who should be chief . after this , b they disputed it again and again : and christ chid them every time , but never told them , i have promised it to peter . nay it appears that christ did not intend it , by his open declarations to the contrary ; that c it should not be among them , as in secular kingdoms and monarchies . it appears more plainly in the fulfilling of his promise . for he both ordained the rest with s. peter , d without any difference ; and when they all together had received the holy ghost , in this chapter , st. peter stood up with the eleven , ver . 14. and upon him and them christ built his church ; even all these who continued , not only in his , but in the fellowship of all the apostles . now if all the apostles were equal in their 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or government , then it is certain that their successors must be so in like manner . though one must have precedence before other , for order's sake ; as st. peter had a usually among the apostles , when they were together : and though one may be above others , in the same national church , as all primats are , by human laws ; yet none , by the law of god , hath authority over others ; i say none among their successors , any more than among the apostles themselves . so st. cyprian b declares oftentimes in his writings . not to mention the like , as i might , from many other of the fathers . now the bishops in after times , in their several churches , were undoubtedly held to be the successors of the apostles . a we have as great a consent among the antients for this , as we have for the observation of the lord's day . and it is evident from the b primitive writers , that they lookt upon communion with their bishops as communion with the very apostles . they held it the duty of every christian , to obey them in spiritual things ; they held it the duty of every bishop , to govern and feed his own flock ; to attend to that only , and not to usurp upon his brethren ; but all , as occasion served , to do all good offices one for another , and to join their endeavours for the common concernments of the church c and for them so to govern the church , and for the people to live under their government , in spiritual things ; this was to live in the fellowship of the apostles , which is the second character in my text. the third is the participation of the same sacraments . one only is mentioned in my text , that is the sacrament of the lord's supper . for being already baptized , they had no more occasion for baptism ; but that being spoken of before ver . 41. i therefore mention both these sacraments . the use of both these , in the apostles times , was a character and token of the christian church . thus st. paul , 1 cor. xii . 13. mentions both these sacraments , as the instruments and means by which we are united to christ. by one spirit we are all baptized into one body , and we have all been made to drink into one spirit . both these sacraments they received of christs own institution , who required them to be used in all ages of the church ; to be administred to all it's members by every church . and that in the same manner as they were instituted by christ ; i mean as to all the essential parts of the sacraments . however ceremonies or rites may be varied ; yet in their essential parts they are of perpetual obligation . for baptism , when it was instituted by our saviour for the admission of members into his church ; he said thus to his apostles , a go , make disciples , ( that is , christians , ) of all nations , baptizing them , in the name of the father , and of the son , and of the holy ghost . and thus doing , b lo i am with you till the end of the world. and for the lords supper , he ●dministred it himself to his disciples , ( who were then not in orders , for it was before his death ; and he did not ordain them till after his resurrection . ) and administring the sacrament to them , who were not in orders , c he took bread , and blessed it , and brake it , and gave it to them , saying , take , eat , this is my body , and what follows . d he gave them the cup in like manner , saying , drink ye all of it . this is my blood , or this cup is the new testament in my blood. accordingly it was done in the church in the apostles times . the apostle calls it the bread and the cup which they received in the sacrament , never otherwise ; though spiritually and sacramentally the body and blood of christ , yet bread and wine in its natural and bodily substance . he says , a the cup which we bless is it not the communion of the blood of christ ? and the bread which we break is it not the communion of the body of christ ? no doubt we have the mind of christ in these words . it is properly the communion of his body and blood , which we receive in this sacrament . and according to his law they are conveyed to us , under the elements of bread and wine . for so the apostle tells us , that , even after consecration , it is bread which we break ; it is bread which we partake ; it is bread that we eat in this sacrament . which last thing he says three times together , in three verses . b in like manner it was properly wine which remained in the cup , even after consecration . so it was called by our saviour , c the fruit of the vine , and this fruit ; even the same of which he had said , this is my blood. and , as he said to his apostles , being laymen , d drink ye all of it ; and as st. mark observes , e they all drank of it , so did all other in those times , as well laity as clergy . 1 cor. xii . 13. we are all made to drink into one spirit . 't is observable , the whole sacrament there is called drinking , as here the whole sacrament is called breaking of bread. and the sacrament being thus instituted by christ , being thus administred by his apostles , and being thus received in his church , was to continue till christs coming again . so the apostle saith expresly . 1 cor. xi . 26. so that here 's a third character of an apostolic church ; to continue the use of those sacraments which they used , and that in all the essentials of them , according to christ's own institution . a fourth character in this text is prayer , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , in the plural number ; that is , not one or two , but many , and oft . and it appears they were publick prayers , by what follows , ver . 46. they continued daily with one accord in the temple . there the apostles used to meet after christ's ascension into heaven . they were continually in the a temple praising and blessing god. they were constantly there in the times of devotion , as may appear from acts iii. 1. and other places . they continued this practice as long as the iews would suffer them ; till they drove them away from their temple and synagogues . after which , these first christians had assemblies elsewhere , as we read acts xviii . 17. in which assemblies , what they prayed , and what they did besides praying , we have no particular account in holy scripture . but we have in those writers that lived within the age of the apostles . that is , in an epistle of the younger pliny to trajan , a and in st. iustin martyr's second apology . b there we find in pliny , c that they did carmen christo quasi deo dicere secum in vicem . they spoke verses , answering one another by turns ; as we speak the reading psalms , i know not how he could better express it . and , saith iustin martyr , they read lessons out of the apostles , and out of the prophets ; d and when the reader had done the bishop preached , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , either the bishop , or the chief minister . then they rose up all together , and prayed . they had , saith iustin martyr , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , common prayers . ( those are his words . ) e in which they prayed for themselves , and for their princes , f and for all others that were living g with them . they prayed only to god , h saith iustin martyr twice . i this , together with the administration of the sacraments , and their gatherings for the poor , is all the account they give us of their meetings . which account being given much within fifty years of the apostles times , we may reasonably conclude it was the manner of their prayers , the use whereof was the fourth character in our description of the apostolick church . besides these you see my text hath given us no other : and therefore whosoever would make sure of such a church , he may do well to judg of it by these characters , being all that the apostles have given us . but if these were the notes of a true church in the apostles times , what mean they of the now roman church , to require any other ? or what would they have that cannot content themselves with these ? sure their hearts misgive them that these are not for their turn . either they have them not , or others have them as well as they : and therefore they choose rather to insist upon those , which they can hope to appropriate to their own faction . it is not worth the while , in this place , to reckon up the fifteen notes of a true church , which a bellarmin gives us . all which , are either common to other societies , as well as a true church ; or if they are proper to such a church , they are elsewhere no less , nay , much more in some others , than in theirs . as for the essential properties , here in my text , they are but four , and those are from an infallible authority , the like whereof cannot be shewed for any other . therefore our church desires nothing more than to be tried by these tokens . if the same way of tryal does not please them so well in the roman church , we cannot wonder at it , for these make no way for them , but against them in every particular . i shall make a short proof of it , trying their catholic church ( as they call it ) by these characters of the primitive apostolick church . and first for the doctrine of the apostles . if the publick profession of that , without any other , be required of any true church ; and if the scriptures contain all the doctrine of the apostles , as it was firmly believed by the fathers in the primitive church : how come they of the roman church to find out so many doctrines , of which there is no mention in the scripture , nor in any of the primitive fathers ? in what place were they kept , to be made known in after-times , that were not known to them that lived in or near the apostles times ? but they have i know not how many such doctrines , and they are properly doctrines of their church . they are declared by their councils , with most dreadful anathemas to all those that shall presume to deny them . we see they unchurch us ; we know what they have done more , and may guess what they would do more to us , for denying them . but they have them in their creed , the creed that is sworn by all their clergy . a they swear first the old nicen , and add to that the new roman creed : they conclude it in these terms , hanc esse veram catholicam fidem extra quam nemo salvus esse potest . b that this is the true catholick faith , without which no man can be saved . what a horrible thing is this , to couple together , i believe in god , and in our lord iesus christ ; with i believe the doctrines of transubstantiation , auricular confession , image-worship , purgatory , indulgences , and what not ? some of which things some of themselves do confess , c are not so much as once mentioned in scripture ; and none of them is mentioned there in plain words , not in any words that were understood so by the fathers for many ages after christ. for the doctrine of transubstantiation . besides that we find nothing for it , but many things against it in the ancients , a so many that we are sure it could not be the tradition of those times . we see at its first birth it was declared to be a novelty , and a falshood , by rabanus arch-bishop of mentz , b and by other c of the learnedst men that lived eight or nine hundred years after christ. we find at that time , and for two hundred years after , it was a rude lump , d which askt much licking over to perfect it a . and then having both shape and a name , it was defined to be of faith by pope innocent in his lateran-council , above twelve hundred years after christ. for confession to a priest , the necessity of it was unknown to the fathers of the primitive b church . nay , above a thousand years after christ , it was held disputable in the roman c church . and though the practice of it was imposed by pope innocent , in his council of lateran d ; yet even then it remained disputable e as to the doctrine , till it was made to be of faith by the trent council a . for their doctrine of image-worship , than which nothing can be more contrary to the scriptures , as they were understood by the primitive b fathers ; we know it was established by the second nicen c council , and we know what a council that was . but it was condemned in the same age by two as numerous councils ; that of constantinople d a little before it , and that of frankfort e immediately after it . and the matter was held in debate all that age , in both the eastern a and western b church : till at last it was setled in the east according to the nicen council ; which they have so much out done in the roman church , that even the greeks charge them with c idolatry ; and they are not wholy excused from it by many d of their own communion . for their doctrin of purgatory , it doth not appear that any one of the ancients hit upon it , among all the different opinions a that they had concerning separated souls , till st. austins time ; and yet then , we are as sure it was no catholic tradition , b as we can be of any thing of that age. after near two hundred years more , it was believed by one of great name : c from whose fabulous writings d it got credit ; and so crept by degrees e into the faith of the roman church . but it is received by no other christians . for their doctrin of indulgences , it is so confessedly a new , it was at first so ill b grounded , and so c wickedly designed , that god seemed to have suffered them to run on into this , to shew the world ( as afterward he did , ) by this example , what stuff the lusts of men left to themselves , would bring into the christian religion . it were easie to shew the like in all their new articles of faith. most of them i shall consider as they come under the other heads of my discourse . the mean while these may pass for a sample of the rest . they all sprung up in late corrupt times , and went at first as private opinions only ; but being found to make well for the interests a of the clergy , they were concerned to bring them in credit with the people . and they took a way for it that could not fail in such an age , by forging new revelations a and miracles . when by these means , worthy of their doctrines , they had brought them into the christian faith ; then beside the interest that first brought them in , there was another reason to continue them . it was necessary for the credit of the infallibility of the roman church . touch that , and you shake the whole building of popery , even to the foundation , that b is , the papacy it self . to secure that , they are brought under this miserable necessity , of holding all for catholic faith , that is once received in the roman church . whatsoever she bringeth forth , must be fathered on the apostles , though there is not the least colour for it in their writings . but to shew how little trust they have in the apostles writings , there needs no other instance than this , that their church hath forbid a her laity to read them , and hath taken a course that if they read they cannot well understand them . the scripture was writ by the apostles in the most vulgar language of their times , the greek , which was the mother tongue of most , and well known in all * countrys where the scripture was written . and they writ it for every one to read , as it appears in plain words a in their writings . and the ancient fathers required b all men to read it , all the laity , even the c meanest of the laity ; they condemned the neglect of it ; they d commended them that read it day and night . there is nothing more frequent in the writings of the ancient fathers . yet now it is found out that the laity may hurt themselves with reading it . how so ? it will make them hereitics . one would little expect it , that had read what the fathers a say of this matter . but now it is heresie to disbelieve the roman church . and , no doubt , to read the scripture a will bring men to this . but whose fault is it ? surely theirs , that instead of reforming their church , have rather chosen to silence the scriptures . which being done in favour of their doctrines , it appears that they themselves , ( i mean the governours of their church ) have been sensible that some at least of their doctrines are not the doctrines of the apostles . in the next place for the apostles fellowship , which i have interpreted to be union under lawful pastors and governors ; they can by no means allow this character to our church , or to any that submits not to their universal pastor . which title they appropriate to the bishop of rome ; and him they swear , in their forementioned profession of faith , to be the vicar of christ , and the successor of st. peter the apostle . and to shew how far they dare go against a evidence , they swear also , that his roman church is not only mistress , but also the mother of all churches . not to say in how many things , he that will be supream pastor , invades the just rights of other pastors , who are all , in the judgment of primitive times , the successors of the apostles of christ ; or how little he hath to shew for his claim to a succession in that power from st. peter , either in scripture story , or in the writings of the primitive b church : i shall only desire you to consider these beginnings of christianity in my text. when the whole church was comprehended in three or four thousand believers , and they were all together with the apostles at this time in ierusalem ; it is certain that then there was no bishop , nor no christian , at rome . so that then for the bishop or church of rome to be any thing , which they swear they are , in those articles of their faith , was surely no part of the apostles doctrine . nor did the fellowship of the apostles consist in subjection to st. peter . though he was the first a in order , yet that he had authority over the rest , there is no ground to assert : there is much evidence against it , as i have shewn from sundry places of scripture . nor granting this to st. peter , ( which they can never prove , ) can they bring down a title from him to the roman bishop . he hath a better pretence to succeed the roman emperors , b in monarchy , than he hath to succeed any of the apostles . and indeed that was the design , as they know that are skild in the writers of antient times . rome seemed a place designd for empire ; and when the emperors faild , then the bishops set up in c their stead . what the emperors could not hold by arms , the bishops would fetch in by religion . and so they obtrude upon all christians , in truth , a secular monarchy , instead of that which my text calls the fellowship of the apostles . thirdly , for the two sacraments of the apostles , they tell us of seven , which were instituted by our lord iesus christ. in this chapter we read of baptism p. 41. and we read of breaking of bread in my text. here are two ; but where are the other five ? they were not thought of at that time , for ought that appears to us in scripture . a nay it doth not appear in a thousand years after . it was eleven hundred years after , when peter lombard wrote his book of the sentences , before which they cannot find the least mention b of that number of sacraments . but to speak of no more than that mentioned in my text. where is the breaking of bread ? as they receive it in the roman church , there is neither breaking nor bread a in their sacrament . where is the communion b of christs body and blood ? their daily worship is the mass. but their mass is no communion c . the priest only consecrates and eats , while all the people stand by and adore . was there ever such a thing heard of in the primitive d times ? in those times , none were suffered to be present but only d such as received . and if any were present , they were punishable e if they did not receive . what could they have thought of such a sacrament as is now the daily worship f of the roman church ? sure enough in the apostles church , as oft as they met to worship god , they all did eat of that one bread . 1 cor. x. 17. and they all were made to drink into one spirit . 1 cor. xii . 13. and whereas of this last , our saviour having said to his disciples , who were then lay-men , drink ye a all of it ; st. mark takes particular notice , b that they all drank of it ; which practice ( we see ) was followed in the apostolic c church : the roman d church will let her laity drink none of it . none of the cup of blessing which we bless ; but the cup of unblessed wine , the ablution as they call it : a trick which they brought up in those corrupt ignorant times , i know not why , if not on purpose to deceive the people , that they may not miss the wine , though they have none of the blessing . so far they are removed from the original church in her sacraments . lastly , for the worship of god , here called the apostles prayers , there are many things in the roman church , whereof some were forbidden by the apostles , and others cannot consist with their doctrine . the chief part of her worship is the sacrifice of the mass ; and that is declared , in the creed before-mentioned , to be a true proper propitiatory sacrifice for the living and the dead . this horrible affront of christs sacrifice , a and abuse of his sacrament a together , was brought in upon the back of that doctrine of the corporeal presence . when , according to that doctrine , the priest hath made christ ; next he is to kill him , or do somthing as bad ; for they pretend to b sacrifice him to god. how this is done , the divines of that church a are not yet agreed . it were well if , at least , they could tell why they do it . for they had need , for such a sacrifice , to have a clear institution from god. but they cannot pretend to that . there is nothing clearly for it in all the texts that they bring out of scripture . this they were told aloud at the council of trent b : and others since have acknowledged c it . they pretend indeed that it is clear in the tradition of the fathers . but for the fathers that received the scripture from the apostles , it is evident d that they could not find any such thing in it . nor could any of them e that lived in the first six hundred years . nay they were to seek for it that lived above a thousand years after the apostles times . f some indeed of the antients have spoke of an unbloody sacrifice , a and that offered by every a christian ; as well without the sacrament as with it . but as they alway denied any more bloody sacrifice ; so little did they think of an unbloody to take away sin , and that such as none could offer but the priest. how much less , that chirst himself must be that sacrifice ; nay , must come from heaven , both to offer , and to be offered ; and that upon such pitiful small , or needless occasions ! the most common pretence , not to mention any b worse , is to fetch a soul out of purgatory ; which the priest is to do for a small piece of silver . but they have other devices to do the same thing . therefore why must christ come from heaven to earn this mony ? and be sent on these errands ten thousand times a day ? and every time suffer as much c as it cost him to redeem all mankind ? this horrible mystery , unknown to former ages , was kept for times worthy of such a discovery ; those dark dismal times that brought in the grossest errors of popery . other things in their worship are new and bad enough , though they do not come up to the monstrousness of this : namely , their prayer to angels , and to saints departed this life , and their prayer for souls in purgatory ; which things together make up a great part of their offices in the roman church . for the first of these , prayer to angels ; we cannot say that there was no such thing in the apostles times . for an apostle , by mistake , was like to have used it , a but was forbid by the angel to whom he offered worship . and another apostle writ b purposely against it as being a superstition that some would then have brought into the church . but those instances sufficiently shew that it could be no part of the apostles prayers . for prayer to saints , as the apostles have left no example ; so they could have none before them , according to the doctrine a of the now roman church . nor is there any colour for it in b scripture , nor in the c tradition of the apostles age. there are many things in both d to the contrary . but after some hundreds of years ; when christianity was the established religion , and heathens came by droves into the church ; it is no wonder that they who in their gentilism prayed to deified men , more than to god , were apt to run into this superstition . they were still for a religion that would affect the sense . and they found matter for it at the memories of the martyrs ; where from the miracles that were wrought for the testimony of their faith , they took occasion to treat the saints as before they had done their heathen a gods , and to address themselves to them for those temporal a benefits which they took to be conferred by their means . it may seem strange that some of the fathers of the church should give countenance b to this popular error . but however they complied with the weakness of the people , in hope to promote their zeal to religion ; and perhaps they might have some other hypotheses c of their own ; yet they writ things d which could not consist with this worship . and some of the fathers e writ directly against it . they asserted to god f the whole duty of worship . they owned no other mediator but christ. g this they all acknowledged to be the sense of the h catholic church . but the darker times grew , the more that error prevailed . the people led their guides , and tolled them on with worldly advantage ; who repaied them with lying a wonders and visions to confirm them in their error . at last by poetry b it got into the offices of the church . and yet then they had no doctrine sufficient to bear it . a thousand years c after christ they were not sure that the saints heard their prayer , or that the saints d are in heaven , which is the very foundation of their worship . their very prayers ( e ) taught them the contrary . and therefore they that came after , altered them in some places . but yet still there is enough left in the mass book ( f ) to shew them how far they are removed from the old roman church . the prayers for souls in purgatory could be no antienter than the doctrine of purgatory was . and therefore having shewn a that the apostles had no such doctrine , i need not prove that these were none of their prayers . but if they prayed for the dead on any other b account , it doth not concern the now roman church : for she pretends c not to pray for any dead , but for them that are in purgatory . and yet to do her right , she hath not one prayer expresly for them in all her offices d for the dead , the reason is , because those offices were made before that fiction was generally believed . the offices were fitted to those doctrines a which were then in the roman church ; which ( as i have shewn ) b were much different from what she hath now . so where their doctrines were doubtful , there the prayers are in ambiguous c terms . but they are plain enough in that which is of faith ; that is , where they pray d ( as we do , ) for a blessed resurrection . but because that is assured to all that die in christ , whether in a perfect or imperfect estate ; and men will not buy prayers for that which will come without asking : therefore to get their mony , there was no better way , than to persuade them that their friends , might be fetched out of purgatory , or might be eased in it , by such prayers as were then used in the church . there might have been new prayers made for the purpose . but as bad as times were , in that darkness of popery , some would have declared against such a gross innovation . therefore it was thought enough to keep the old prayers , and get the church to interpret them , as she hath done a sufficiently to shew her own novelty in this matter . for the other parts of their worship , we read that the ptimitive christians , that lived next the apostles times , had their lessons from the scriptures a of the old and new testament . so they have some likewise in the roman church . but for every such lesson , they have two lessons out of other books : and no small part of them ( i say no more than i can prove , ) are as arrant fables b as any that are in the heathen poets . for the language of their prayers and offices in their church ; it is all in latin , and that is an unknown tongue . it is a chance if any there understands it . and their church is not concerned c that they should understand it : but st. paul was ; as we read , 1 cor. xiv . 14. if i pray , saith he , in an unknown tongue , my spirit prays , but my understanding is unfruitful . but i will pray with the spirit , and i will pray with the understanding also . again , verse 16. how shall he that stands in the room of the unlearned say , amen , at thy giving of thanks ? seeing he understands not what thou sayest . again , verse 9. in the church i had rather speak five words with my understanding , that by my voice i might teach others also , than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue . these are plain texts of scripture , which the roman church evidently transgressing , does wisely no doubt to keep the scriptures from the reading or understanding of her people . for otherwise , it could be no great comfort to them , to find how directly she goes against , as well the precepts , as the practice of the apostles . i shave shewn that she doth it , not only in one , or a few , instances ; but in many , and those of the greatest note ; in all the notes that the apostles have given us of a true christian church . having given this account of her that calls her self the catholic church ; having shewn how far she is removed from this church in my text ; i shall not pass any judgment upon her , as she peremptorily doth upon others , damning all that are not of her communion : better leave that to god , and they will find so at the last day . only , being as she is , i think we have all reason to beware of her ; to thank god that we are at this distance from her ; to bless her for her curses , a that have caused that distance ; to pray for her and her children , that they may be purged from their errors ; and till then , to watch and pray for our selves ; and to put it , at least , in our private litany , ( it shall alway be in mine , ) from popery good lord deliver us . let us next consider our own church ; and when i say our own , i know you all understand me , that i speak of the church of england in the first place ; and proportionably of all other reformed churches . and this i say ; if any church which holds the same doctrine , which retains the same government , which partakes the same sacraments , and the same worship of god , as they did in the apostles times , be a true apostolical church : we are bound to bless god , who hath placed us where we are ; who hath made us members of such a church , which hath all those characters so entire and so visible in it . first for doctrine , we profess to believe a the holy scriptures , which ( i have shewn ) b have been antiently thought to contain the whole doctrine of the apostles . we acknowledg for canonical scriptures , neither less nor more , than all those books c whose authority is undoubted in the church . we profess the same faith , and no more , than all christians have professed in all ages : namely d that which is briefly comprized in the apostles creed ; e explained in the creeds called the nicen , f and that of athanasius ; and proved in every article or point a by the holy scriptures taken in that sense , which is both most evident in the words , and which hath been approved by the consent of the universal church . secondly for the government b of our church , as to the constitution of it , it is according to the scripture rules and primitive patterns . and for the exercise of it ; it goes as far as the looseness of the age will bear . if this hath weakened the c discipline of our church , we know the same looseness hath the same effect elsewhere , even in those churches of the roman communion : and it had no less in the church of corinth d in the apostles times . for the persons that are emploied in the ministery ; e they are such as are lawfully called to it ; they are consecrated and ordained for that purpose ; and that a according to the scripture and canons of the universal church . they are such as wholly attend on this very thing , in the apostles b words . and for our church of england , i may add , without prejudice to any other , we can derive the succession c of our bishops from the apostles , as high as most churches can , even of them in the roman communion . thirdly , for our sacraments ; d we use the same , and no other than those , which christ expresly left to his church : i mean , which he both instituted , and commanded us to use ; which can be said of no other than only baptism , and the lords supper . lastly , for our public worship , we have cause to bless god that has given us such a liturgy ; in which , according to all the measures we have of the apostles , we can see nothing but what , as to the substance , is theirs ; and our most malicious enemies can tell us of no other ill they see in it ; but only this , that the words of it are ours . the ministration of this worship and of these sacraments , is in a language e understood by all those that are concerned in them . they can all say amen f to their prayers . it is performed with such rites , a as are not against the word of god , but are agreeable to it ; being only b for order and decency . and we use them , c not as necessary in themselves , but in obedience to the authority which every church hath over its own members . we do , according to saint cyprians d rule , condemn or judg no other church . we separate from none , any otherwise , than by purging our selves e from those things , which we believe to be corruptions , and errors : to which end several of those articles were framed , to be subscribed by our own clergy , without imposing them on any other . in all these respects , our church holds a communion , or hath done nothing to break it , with any other national church ; no , not with those of the roman communion : and is , not only , what they deny , a true member ; but what they are not , a sound member , of that one holy catholic church , which was from the beginning , and which will be to the end of the world . the last thing is , having proved we have a true church , to persuade you , first to continue in it stedfastly . and secondly in the belief and practice of those things , by which it appears to be a true church . and lastly , to profit by them ; and so to adorn our holy religion with a holy and good conversation . first , to persuade you to continue stedfastly in this church ; it is enough , if you are convinced that you cannot mend your selves by any change. who would not desire to continue where he is well ? who would not stick to that which is the best he can chuse ? who would needlesly run the danger of any loss ? especially of losing himself , which is the greatest loss that is possible ? and yet that we have reason to expect from the just indignation of god , if we shall reject the great benefit that he hath given us , to be born in the womb , and bred up in the bosom of such a church . no doubt you hear , ( for who does not ? ) on every side the voices of them that would allure you , or would threaten you out of it . but whatsoever they say , remember what the philosopher made the first part of wisdom , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 do not believe all that is said . remember how our saviour forewarned , a if any tell you , christ is here , or christ is there , believe him not . if antiquity be pretended on the one hand , if large boasts of purity on the other , many fine things are said , believe them not . and if many have been seduced by these means , let them answer for themselves : you had best to look before you follow them . if many have fallen off from our church , so did many from christ. but some were wiser , and considered what they should get by it . they said , b whither should we go ? thou hast the words of eternal life . if our church has but that , whatever she wants else , it will be our wisest way to continue in it . but then secondly , you are to continue in those characters by which it appears to be a true church : and to exercise your communion in all the acts that belong to these characters ; namely in the apostles doctrine , and fellowship , and in the sacraments , and in prayers . first for doctrine ; hold fast c the form of sound words which you have received . contend d earnestly for the faith that was once delivered to the saints . seek it not in muddy streams , but in the living fountains of scripture . all scripture a is given by inspiration from god ; and is enough to make the man of god perfect , and throughly furnisht to every good work . it is sufficient to make us wise b to salvation : so that if we mind only that , we have no need of any other ; and yet we would refuse no other that could be made out , as this is , to be the doctrine of the apostles of christ. secondly , as to the apostles fellowship , we have heard it is continued in the bishops their successors . therefore we ought to take heed how we break communion with them . we are both to acknowledg , and make use of their ministery ; to obey them c in spiritual things , as being those that must give account for our souls . thirdly , for the sacraments and worship of god , forsake not the assembling of your selves together , d nor run into separate meetings , as the manner of some is . some will alway be stragling ; we cannot help what they do ; and what they do among themselves we do not enquire . they that are of the catholic and apostolic church , will be only for the catholic and apostolic sacraments ; namely , for those which christ himself instituted in his church : baptism , by which we are e planted into christs death ; and the lords supper , in which we keep up the remembrance of it a till he comes . we have also the same worship of god , which was in the apostles times , and which hath been ever since in the church . they who are now saints in heaven , while they were upon earth , prayed to no other but god only . if we pray not to them , they will excuse us , we do as they did . and we do it in assurance that the same worship which they used , will bring us ( as it did them ) to be saints in heaven too , if we continue in it . lastly continuing in the church , and in all the characters of it , our business is to profit by all these ; to grow b in grace , and in the knowledg of our lord iesus christ. it concerns us , not only to be in a true church , but to see that we our selves are true christians ; and that can no otherwise appear , than in the likeness of christ , in righteousness and holiness of life . without this , though you be of a true church , you will not be so long , or you will be so to no purpose . a wicked life will , in time , eat out all the sense of religion ; or the more sense one hath , he will find the less comfort in ours . our religion hath no comfort for him that is and will be wicked . our religion hath no purgatory to keep him from hell. our religion can make him no penny-worths of heaven . our religion hath no pardon for sin , but on repentance ; no repentance , but on real amendment of life . he that cannot come to that , alas ! what does he in our religion ? as it cannot , if he knows it , but be uneasie to him ; so he will make himself unworthy of it . he will provoke god to deprive him of the benefit . and it is all one which way he deprives him ; whether by letting him now run out of the church , or whether by shutting him out of heaven at the last . for that it will come to , when all is done , without holiness there is no coming thither . without holiness a no man shall see the lord. none shall ; if you want that , not you in particular ; and then what will your religion signifie ? though your church hath all that the apostles church had , what good will this do you , if you perish in it ? though your ship will go its voyage , what is that to you , if you die of a surfeit by the way ? though you have the true doctrine , communion , sacraments , and prayers , what comfort will all this give you in that terrible day ? yea , what horror will it be , that being placed well by god , you are fallen from it ? you have lost , you have thrown away that great blessing that he had given you . beloved a we hope better things of you , and things that accompany salvation , though we thus speak . i hope , and therefore pray , that all that hear me this day may be the better for being of such a church . god intended we should . he has dealt exceeding graciously with us . but yet he expects that we should do something for our selves : that considering the opportunity that is put in our hands , seeing how near god has brought us to the kingdom of heaven , seeing nothing but our own sins between us and it , ( should that sight make us fly out ; and seek other ways ; ways that god never made nor will bless ? nay rather ) we should break through our sins , and go the way that he calls us in his word ; there can be no better , there is no other than this . so performing his design , pursuing the ends of our calling , living suitably to our excellent religion : we are indeed the followers of the apostles in this life , and shall be with them hereafter in the blessedness of life everlasting . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a48849-e150 a lucifer , 〈…〉 1568. p. 79. & 328. prosper . chr. 〈…〉 b iren. adv . har . l. 3. c. 3. cals it , t●e church from which every church had its beginning . luke xxiv . 47. a v. card. baron . annal . eccl. anno 900. &c. b 2 tim. iii. 16. 2 pet. i. 21. c 2 tim. iii. 15. d joh. xx . a chrysost. in 2 cor. hom. 13. edit . savil. tom. iii. p. 624. 43. b idem in 2 thess. hom. 3. ib. tom. iv. p. 234 , 19. c aug. de doctr. christianâ l. 2. c. 9. edit . basil. 1541. tom. iii. col. 25. d. in iis enim , &c. d basil. m. hom. 29. edit . paris . 1618. tom. i. p. 623. c. e hieron . adv . helvid . edit . basil. 1524. tom. ii. p. 13. b. a iren. adv . haer. l. 1. c. 2. & 3. & alii passim . b cyprian . testim . ad quirinum . lib. 1. & 2. proving all things of faith and life from the scripture . constantin . m. apud theodorit . hist. eccl. l. 1. c. 7. edit . vales. p. 25. d. offers the scriptures for deciding all controversies touching the faith. so athanasius and others prove every disputed article . and when the heretics produced tradition on their side , the fathers always held them to the scriptures . a mat. xxviii . 2c . b mat. x. 40. c act. i. 20. d mat. xix . 28. luke xxii . 30. a matth. xviii . ● . xx . 24. b mat. luk. xxii 24 c mat. xx . 26. & xxiii . 8 , 9 , 10. luke xxii . 26. d joh. xx . 21 , 22 , 23. a usually , but not always ; for at jerusalem , st. james , being bishop there , had the precedence . act. xv . ●al . ii . 9. b cyprian de unit. eccl. c. 3. edit . paris . 1649. p. 208. the other apostles were also that which peter was , they had an equall share both of honor and of power . epist. 51. p. 80. every bishop orders his own , affairs , and is to give account to god. epist. 54. p. 95. every one has his own flock to govern , of which he is to give account to god. conc. carth. de bapt. haeret. p. 353. no bishop can be judged by another , or can judg another . but we all wait for the iudgment of christ , who is the only one that has power , both to put us into the office , and to judg of our discharge of it . tertullian . de praescript . c. 36. edit . paris . 1641. p. 245. run over the apostolic churches , in which are yet the very chairs of the apostles . ye have corinth . ye have ephesus . ye have philippi . ye have rome . cyprian . epist. 26. p. 42. christ said to peter , thou art peter , and i will give thee the keys , &c. from thence by course of times and successions , is derived the ordination of bishops in the church . epist. 74. p. 163. the bishops have succeeded the apostles being ordained in their stead . a iren. contra haereses . l. iii. c. 3. we can reckon up them who by the apostles were made bishops in the several churches . b epist. 68. p. 136. the church is a people united to their own bishop , and a flock adhering to their own pastor . ibid. polycarpus , by the apostles made bishop of the church of smyrna . c epist. 66. p. 128. to steven bishop of rome . therefore , my dear brother , there is a numerous body of bishops united together by the bond of concord and vnity ; that if any one of our college should attempt to make a sect and to tear and spoil the flock of christ , the rest may come in to help , and as good and compassionate shepherds may gather the lord's sheep into the flock . a matt. xxviii . 19. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , make disciples , so acts xiv . 21. but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , disciples , is as much to say as christians . acts. xi . 26. b matt. xxviii . 20. c matt. xxvi . 26. mar. xiv . 22. lu. xxii . 19. 1 cor. xi . 24. d matt. xxvi . 28. mar. xiv . 24. luke xxii . 20. 1 cor. xi . 25. a 1 cor. x. 16. b 1 cor. x. 16 , 17. & xi . 26 , 27 , 28. c matt. xxvi . 29. mar. xiv . 25. d matt. xxvi . 27. e mark xiv . 23. a luke xxiv . 53. a plin. lib. ● . epist. 97. b justin m. apol. ii. edit . paris 1636. p. 97 , &c. c plin. ib. d justin ibid. p. 98. d. e p. 97. c. f p. 64. d. g p. 97. c. and for all others every where , that we may learn the truth . &c. h p. 63. d. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , p. 64. d. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . i p. 97. d. & 98. d , a bellarmin de conciliis & ecclesiâ lib. 4. a in the form of profession , prescribed by pius iv. according . decree of the council of trent . sess. xxiv . decret . de reform . cap. 1. & 12. b concil . edit labb . tom. xiv . col. 946. b. c of transubstantiation , this is confest by did in can. missae lect. 40. beginning , that whether the bread be turned into christs body , or remains with his body , it is not found exprest in the scriptures . bellarmin . de eucharist . iii. 23. tertiò addit . mentions others of their church that had said the like and he grants it not improbable that it could not he proved out of scripture , till the scripture was declared by a general council ; meaning ( as he there shews ) that of lateran , above twelve hundred years after christ. of auricular confession gloss. in decr. de poenit. dist . 5. beginning , semeca saith , it was instituted by some tradition of the vniversal church , rather than by the authority of the new or old testament . panormitan super quinto , de poenit. & remis . c. omnis utriusque , saith , i am much pleased with that opinion of semeca : for there is not any plain authority , which shews that god or christ instituted plainly , that confession should be made to a priest , biel in sent. iv. 17. g. saith , it was delivered , by word and deed , without any scripture . for image worship . bellarmin de eccl. triumph . ii. 12. can find only two texts of the new testament . mat. 5. 33. swear neither by heaven , for it is gods throne ; nor by earth , for it is his footstool ; and 2 tim. iii. 15. from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures . of purgatory . baconthorp in sent . 1. 4. dist . 49. q. 1. saith , others think it cannot be proved by the authority of scripture . petrus à soto , saith , it cannot be plainly proved from testimonies of scripture ; chemnit . exam. conc. trid. sess. 25. beginning . perion . saith , he knows no place of scripture to prove it . bulenger saith , it is hard to bring any express and clear text for it ; chamier panstr . tom. iii. l. 26. c. 2. §. 3. for indulgences . st. antonin . summ. moral . part . 1. tit. 10. c. 3. beginning . of indulgences we have nothing expresly from scripture , nor from the sayings of the antients , but of the late doctors . cajetan opusc . tom. i. tract . 15. c. 1. of the rise of them , no authority of scripture , or antient doctors greek or latin , have brought this to our knowledg : only within these three hundred years it hath been written , &c. bishop fisher assert . luther . confutatio art. 18. p. 135. grants there is neither precept , nor counsel for it in scripture . a as that what we receive in the sacrament is bread in it's own nature and essence , and that it nourisheth our body , &c. that wicked men receive no other but bread , though to the faithful it is truly christ's body , and therefore it is called his body . that it is a sacrament , a sign , an image , and a figure of his body . which last words were in the canon of the mass , till it was altered in favour to this new opinion . v. gratian decr. de consecr . dist. 2. c. 55. b rabanus in his canonical epistle published by baluz , with his regino . p. 517. hath these words , some of late , not holding aright of the sacrament , have said that the body of christ which was born of the virgin mary , &c. is [ the same which is received at the altar . ] against which error we have written to egilus abbas . but that book is lost ; and in this , as baluz shews , [ those last words ] were rased out of the manuscript . c bertramus , or ratrannus corbeiensis in his book written against it , by order of carolus calvus , and transcribed in great part into our saxon homily . which book is mentioned as his , by the nameless writer in defence of paschasius , and by sigebert , de script . eccl. c. 96. iohannes scotus , professor at oxford in king alfrid's time , in his book against it , that was burnt 200 years after , when this innovation had prevailed . but none of these books were censured in that age when they were written . d anno 1059. the pope and his roman council put these words into the mouth of berengar , that not the sacrament , but the very body of christ is broken and ground by the teeth of the faithful . which , the glosse there saith , was a greater heresie then berengar's , unless their words be taken in a sound sense , that is , otherwise than they signifie . decr. de consecr . dist . 2. c. 42. ego berengarius . a about the year 1150 the master of the sentences l. 4. dist . 11. saith , whether the change be formal , or substantial , or of some other kind , i am not able to define . only i know it is not formal . but anno 1215. pope innocet defined it to be , of no other kind but substantial . conc. lateran . iv. c. 1. b of secret sins no confession is necessary , but to god only . chrysost. edit . savil. tom. i. p. 708. 11. iv. p. 589. 40. v. p. 258. 6. & . p. 262. 44. c gratian. decret . de poenit. dist. 1. c. 89. quibus autoritatibus , having brought arguments for and against it , thus concludes , which side is in the right , i leave the reader to judge , for on both sides there are wise and religious men . the master of the sentences lib. 4. dist . 17. though himself was for confession , yet saith , learned men differ about it , for so the doctors seem to vary and deliver things near contrary to one another about it . so that yet it was disputable in those times . d conc. lateran . iv. can. 21. e gloss. in decr. de poenit . dist , 1. c. 37. allii è contr . saith . here follow allegations , to prove that one of age is not forgiven sin without confession . which is false . a conc. trident. sess. 14. can. 6 , 7 , 8. after which , in the roman edition of the canon law , there were notes put upon those places above-mentioned . where gratian doubted whether confession were necessary , they say , it is most certain , and to be held for most certain , that confession is necessary . and where semeca had said , it is false , they say , nay it is most true . b the second commandment which forbids bowing down defore any image or likeness , though it does not appear in the roman decalogue , was held by the fathers to be a law of perpetual obligation . so irenaeus adv . heres . l. ii. c. 6. & l. iv. c. 31. clemens alex. admon . ad gentes edit . leyd . 1616. p. 31. 12. strom. v. ib. p. 408. 22. tertull. de idololatria c. 4. p. 105. d. idem . adv . marcion . l. ii. c. 22. p. 470. a. b. idem . in scorpiac . c. 2. p. 617. c. d. cyprian . de exhort . mart. p. 283. idem . in testim . ad quirinum l. iii. c. 59. p. 345. augustin . epist. 119. c. 11. tom. ii. col . 569. a. c the english , and french , and germans of that age , called it pseudosynodum , the mock-synod , of nice ; or rather of constantinople , because it began and ended in that city . concil . edit . labb . tom. vii . p. 37. d. & 592. b. hincmar . opusc. 33. c. 20. edit . sirmondi tom. ii. p. 457. ado vienn . aet . vi. edit . paris . 1512. fol. 181. annal. fuld . & v. opera alcuini in fine . d of which there is nothing left , but what is repeated out of it in the second nicen council act. 6. edit . labb . tom. vii . col . 392. e. e ib. col . 1057. e. a baron , anno 843. num . 16. saith , till that year the nicen council had not prevailed in the eastern church . b witness the book of charles the great , and that of the synod of paris under ludovicus pius , and that of agobard bishop of lions , against the worship of images as it was then in the roman church . c for their carved images of saints ; goar in eucholog . p. 28. saith , the greeks abhor carved images , as idols , of which they do not stick to sing in davids words , they have mouths and speak not . and for picturing god , the second nicen council condemns it , by approving the epistle of st. german , which calleth the image of god an idol . concil . edit . labb . tom. vii . col . 301. e. and 304. a. d lud. vives in his notes on aug. de civitate dei l. viii . c. 27. tom. v. col . 494. b. saith , in many catholics , i do not see what difference there is between their opinion of the saints , and the heathens opinion of their gods. polydor. virg. de invent. l. vi. c. 13. saith , men are come to that pitch of madness , that this part of piety differeth little from impiety . for very many — trust more in their images , then in christ or the saints , to whom they are dedicated . the like complaints have many other of their writers . bellarmin de cultu imag. ii. 22. edit . venet. tom. 1599 : ii. col . 836. e. saith , that they who hold that some images are to be worshipped with latria , are forced to use most subtle distinctions , which they themselves scarce understand , much less the ignorant people . and yet this , which he so censures , is the constant judgment of divines , and seems to be the meaning of the council of trent , saith azorius , institut . moral . l. 9. c. 6. a some held , that all go immediately after death , to heaven or hell. others , that none go to either , but that all are kept in secret receptacles till the general resurrection . some , that the martyrs go to heaven , and the damned souls to hell ; but all the rest are kept there in expectation and suspense till the day of iudgment . some held , that there shall be a first resurrection of the righteous ; of whom some shall rise sooner , some later , in the thousand years of christs reign upon earth . and that the delay of that resurrection shall be the punishment of their sins . others held , that their sins shall be purged away by that fire that shall burn the world at the last day . and that they shall burn a longer or less while , and with more or less pain , according to the degrees of their sins . all the fathers were of some or other of these opinions , which are all inconsistent with the roman doctrine of purgatory . b aúg. de fide & operibus , c. 15. tom. iv. p. 69. e. saith , some think men that die in sin may be purged with fire , and then be saved , holding the foundation . for so they understand that text. 1 cor. iii. 13. they shall be saved as by fire . so enchirid. ad laurent . c. 67● . tom. iii. p. 175. c. ibid. de fide & operibus p. 71. b. he saith . that this is one of those places which st. peter saith are hard to be understood , which men ought not to wrest to their own destruction . ibid. c. 16. p. 73. b. he saith , for his own part , he understandeth that text to be meant of the fire of tribulation in this life . so enchir. ad laur. ib. c. 68. but for the doctrine , he saith , that some such thing may be , is not incredible : and whether it be so , it may be enquired ; and it may be found , or it may not . so enchir. ad laur. c. 69. p. 176. d. all these texts he repeats again , in his answer to the first of the eight questions of dul●itius . de civitate dei l. xxi . c. 26. tom. v. p. 1315. b. he again delivereth the same meaning of that text. and as to the doctrin , he saith , i do not find fault with it , for perhaps it is true . ibid. p. 1316. b. i suppose st. austin would not have said this of the doctrine of christs incarnation . c pope gregory . i. in his dialogues , where , among many idle tales , he hath some that are palpably false , andd such as bewray both his ingorance and credulity together . for example , that of st. paulins being a slave in afric till the death of the king of the vandals , who could be no other than genseric , that out-lived st. paulin five and forty years . and yet gregory saith , i heard this , from our elders , and this i do as firmly believe as if i had seen it with my own eyes . lib. 1. praef. &c. 1. d bishop fisher against luthers assert . art. 18. p. 132. saith , it was a good while unknown , and then it was believed by some , pedetentim by little and little , and so at last it came to be generally received by the church . e platina ( who then lived , ) in the life of eugenius iv. edit . colon. 1593. p. 310. saith , after many meetings , and much contention about it , the greeks at last being overcome with reasons did believe there was a place of purgatory . but he adds , that not long after they returned to what they held before . and in the life of nicolas v. p. 323 , 324. he saith , that he would fain have reduced them to the catholic faith , but he could not . bishop fisher ubi supra , saith , there is none , or very seldom mention of it among the ancients ; and it is not believed by the greeks to this day . alphonsus de castro adv . haeres . l. 8. tit. indulg . hath the same words . and l. 12. tit. purgatorium , saith that this is one of the most known errors of the greeks and armenians . bzov. contin . baron . anno 1514. n. 19. saith , the muscovites and russians believe no purgatory . most of these believe a middle state , as those ancients did ; but that will not stand with this doctrin . a for the age of it , scarce any go higher than the stations of pope gregory . i. who lived about the year six hundred , and to fetch it from those times , they have no antienter author than thomas aquinas . ( for neither gratian , nor peter lombard , have so much as one word of this matter . ) so cardinal cajetan opusc. tom. i. tract . 15. c. 1. saith , this only has been written within these three hundred years , as concerning the antient fathers , that pope gregory instituted the indulgences of stations , as aquinas hath it . so likewise bishop fisher , and alphonsus a castro , both ubi supra . cardinal bellarmin de indulg . l. 3. offers some kind of proof from elder times , in such a manner , as if he would not oblige us to believe it . but for the instance of pope gregory i. he saith , we are impudent if we deny it . but with bellarmins leave , a french oratoire , morinus de poenit. l. 10. ● . 20. does deny it ; and convicts this , and all his other proofs of indulgences before gregory . vii . to be nothing but forgery and imposture . it seems probable indeed , that gregory vii . ( commonly known by his former name , hildebrand , ) was the first that granted any indulgences ; and that was above a thousand years after christ. cardinal tolet. casuum l. vii . c. 21. 1. saith , that paschal ii. was the first that granted indulgences for the dead . that must be about the year eleven hundred . and ibid. lib. vi. c. 24. 3. he saith , that the first that granted plenary indulgences , was pope boniface viii . who lived about the year thirteen hundred . so antient is this new catholic faith. b the ground of this faith , according to bellarmin de indulg . l. 2 , 3. is made up of a number of school opinions put together ; about which opinions ( as he there saith ) the school-men have differed among themselves . but all his comfort is , that they that did not hold his way , were ready to acquiess in the iudgment of the church , if she held otherwise . he might as well have said , that the church , when they lived , was so far from having declared her judgment of this doctrine ; that she had not yet declared her sense of those opinions , which were to be the ground of it in after-times . c the design of hilde●ands indulgences was to engage men to fight in his quarrel , and to do other services to the papacy . greg. vii . epist. ii. 54. and vi. 10 , 15. and vii . 13. and viii . 6. the design of pope boniface , in his farther improvement of this invention , was to get mony. chron. citiz. anno 1289. he was greedy of mony , and to gather it , he sent his legates into divers parts of the world , to trade with indulgences . and with these , he raised very great sums , enough to have maintained a holy war. but what became of it , we shall know at doomsday . a transubstantiation , for the honour of the clergy ; confession for their power and authority ; image worship , to bring in oblations to the church ; purgatory , for the profit of masses to the lower clergy ; indulgences , for the profit of the superior ; plenary indulgences , for the popes own coffers . a for transubstantiation , the first that wrote was paschas . rathertus about the year 820. and he tells us of sundry persons , that had seen , instead of the host , one a lamb , another a child , another flesh and blood . paschas . de corp . & sang . dom. c. 14. and after the year 1200 , when it was defined to be of faith ; caesarius of heisterbach wrote a whole volume , of miracles that were wrought in that age to confirm the truth of it , more in number than are recorded in scripture to confirm the whole divine revelation . for auricular confession . bellarmin produces sundry revelations and miracles , by which he saith god witnest that the churches faith concerning it was true , de poenit. l. iii. c. 12. quarta . among the rest , he hath that of st. francis , who raised one from the dead to be confessed , which i take to be no less than the fetching of trajans soul from hell , according to their doctrine . for image-worship , the fathers in that second nicene council set it up in contemplation of the miracles that were wrought by the images , concil . edit . labb . tom. vii . p. 252. c. so bellarmin de imagin sanct. l. ii. c. 12. miracula ; saith , the miracles which were done by the images , were therefore done , that they might prove and establish the doctrin of images . for purgatory . pope gregory in his before-mentioned dialogues l. iv. c. 55. &c. declares upon what ground it was that he believed it ; namely , from the relation of the poor souls themselves , that were confined to the hot baths , and kept there at hard work , swelterd as tenders use to be : from which miserable bondage they were redeemed by prayers and masses , as he tells us . so bishop fisher ubi supra p. 132. saith , purgatory was found out , partly by revelations and partly by scriptures ; but scriptures , he confesseth , so understood as they never were in former times . and for indulgences , he tells us , that they came not in use till after men had quaked a while at the flames of purgatory , the belief of that doctrine fitted men for this . and yet this had miracles to support it . so lintur . app. ad fascic . temp . anno 1489. tells , how at friburg one devil in the shape of a dog helpt one to rob the pope of all the mony that his factors had taken in that city , for which the thief , having confessed it , was put to a m●st direful death . b bellarmin de romano pontifice , praef. saith , when we speak of the popes power , we speak of the sum of christianity . a rule 4th . of the index made by order of the council of trent , that whosoever shall presumè to read , or have a bible , though of a catholic translation , without a faculty in writing from his bishop ; such a one cannot receive absolution , till he has delivered up his bible to the ordinary . for fear this should not be enough , pope clement viii . has added this note , that by command and practice of the holy in●isition , no bishop has power to grant any such faculty to read or keep a bible any vulgar tongue . * cicero pro archia , edit . grut. l. 292. 17. a st. iohn saith at the end of the gospel ; these things are written , that ye might believe , and that believing ye might have life . st. paul directs his epistles to all in general ; rom. i. 7. to all that be in rome , beloved of god. &c. 1 cor. i. 2. to the church of god at corinth , with all that in every place call upon the name of jesus christ 2 cor. i. 1. to the church at corinth with all the saints which are in all achaia . so in other epistles . b chrysost. in gen. serm. 29. tom. i. p. 225. 10. i beseech you to attend with diligence to the reading of the scriptures : and that not only while you are here , but also at home ; to take the bible in your hands , and receive the profit of it with care . lin. 22. let us not , i beseech you , neglect so great a profit ; but also in our houses , let us diligently attend the reading of scriptures . lin. 36. that we may not only have enough for our selves ; but be able to help others , and instruct wife and children and neighbours , &c. id. in joh. serm. 53. tom. ii. p. 776. 27. i beseech you , get bibles . id. in his sermon of the profit of reading scripture . tom. viii . p. 112. 43. let us apply our selves to reading , not only these two hours , for this bare hearing is not enough to secure us ; but continually , let every one , when he is come home , take his bible , and go over the sense of those things that have been said . for the tree that was planted by the waters , was by the waters , not two or three hours , but all day and all night ; therefore it bringeth forth leaves and fruit , &c. so he that is continually reading the scriptures , though he have none to interpret , yet by continual reading he draws much profit . id. de lazaro serm. 3. tom. v. p. 242. 30. this i alway beseech , and will never leave beseeching you ; that you would not only attend to what is said in this place , but also that when you are at home , you would continually be reading the scriptures . this also at all times i have not ceased to beg of them with whom i speak in private . c chrys. in coloss. serm. 9. tom. iv. p. 136. 18. on these words , of the apostle , let the word of god dwell in you richly ; hear you people of the world , you that have charge of wife and children , how he exhorts you more than others to read the scriptures ; and that not slightly , or any how , but with much diligence . again , p. 137. 2. hear , i beseech you , all you that work for your living , and get your selves bibles for the cure of your souls . lin. 7. this is the cause of all evils , that men do not know the scriptures . lin. 9. do not throw all upon vs [ of the clergy ] you are sheep ; but not brutes , but rational creatures . d id. de lazaro serm. 3. tom. v. p. 244. 43. take the bible in your hands , read all the history ; hold fast the known things . for the dark and unknown , go often over them ; and if thou canst not by continual reading find out what is said , go to thy teacher ; if he shall not teach thee , god will , seeing thy diligence , &c. a chrysost. de lazaro . s. 3. tom. v. p. 245. 18. the reading of scripture is a great security against sin . the ignorance of scripture is a great precipice , and a deep pit . it is a great betraying of our salvation to know nothing of the laws of god. it is this , that hath brough forth heresies ; this that has brought in corrupt life ; this hath turnd things upside down . for it is impossible , i say it is impossible for any one to depart without fruit that enjoys reading continually with observation . a bellarm. de verbo dei ii. 15. quid quod . the people would not only receive no benefit , but would also receive hurt by the scriptures , &c. peter sutor tralat , bibliae , c. 22. fol. 96. will not the people be drawn away easily from observing the churches institutions , when they shall find that they are not conteind in the law of christ ? a luke xxiv . 47. gal. iv . 26. the second general council called the church of ierusalem the mother of all churches , theodorit . eccl. hist. v. 9. edit . vales. p. 211. d. b considerations against popery . p. 81 , 82 , &c. a mat. x. 2. b d●m . a s●to in sent. iv. dist . 46. q. 1. art . ● . though [ daniels fourth monarchy , that is , ] the civil empire of the romans , hath now ceased ; yet the world is not at an end , because that temporal empire hath been changed into a spiritual , as pope leo saith in his sermon of the apostles . c what the popes would have had , it may appear by their forging a donation from constantin ; in which they make him give them his crown and scepter , together with the city of rome , and all the western provinces , places and cities . and that he might leave the pope in possession , they make him remove into the east , and there build a new seat for his empire ; reserving only the honor to put on the popes crown and hold his stirrup , to himself and his successors . concil . edit . merlini 1530. fol. 58. a. b. this donation was a part of the acts of s. sylvester , which were forged in the eighth century ; and that probably by pope adrian i. for he first quoted them . and he may justly be suspected to be the author of that body of law , which , under the name of st. isidors collection , was generally received within a hundred years after ; and which obtains to this day in the roman church , though the learned men among them are convinced and own that it is an errant heap of corruption and forgery . a 1 cor. x. 2 , 3 , 4. and xii . 13. s. paul mentions only baptism and the lords supper . b bellarm. de sacram. ii. cap. 24. endeavours to shew that each of the five has been called a sacrament by one or other of the fathers ; ( and the like he might have shewn of twenty things more . ) but he could not produce one father , that either said there were seven sacraments of christs instituting ; or that spoke of all these as being such , or of so many as would make up that number . only he says cap. 25. the master of the sentences , and all divines since his time ▪ have delivered that there are seven sacraments ; and adds , if this be false , the whole church for four hundred years must have erred most perniciously . he might have said the whole roman church , and we should not much have differed about it . a the invention of the wafer came in after the doctrin of transubstantiation . cassandri liturgic . c. 27. it was then of use . for the senses have less to do about a wafer than about bread. b 1 cor. x. 16. c verse xvii . for we being many are one bread and one body , for we are all partakers , &c. if that be a good reason ; then they which are not partakers , have not that communion . so t is inferred by the twelfth council of toledo can. 5. that they who do not eat are not partakers of the altar . concil . ed. lab. tom. vi. 1230. b. d justin m. apol. 11. p. 97. e. they give to every one that is present to receive of that which is consecrated . so. p. 98. e. the giving and receiving of the consecrated things is to every one . apost . constit. viii . 13. concil . ed. labb . tom. i. 483. e. the bishop receives , and then the priests , &c. and then all the people in order . again , 485. a. let the thirty third psalm be said while all the rest are receiving , and when all the men and all the women have received , let the deacons take what is left , &c. the same may be observed in all the antient liturgies . chrysost. in ephes. serm. 3. tom. iii. 778. 26. ye hear proclamation made , as many as are in penance be gone . as many as do not receive are in penance . ib. p. 779. 3. how is it that you tarry , and do not partake of the table ? you are vnworthy , you say ; then you are so of communi●n in prayer . your eyes are unworthy of these sights , and your ears are unworthy , &c. ib. line 13. it is no more lawful for you to be here , than for one that is not christned . d justin m. apol. 11. p. 97. e. they give to every one that is present to receive of that which is consecrated . so. p. 98. e. the giving and receiving of the consecrated things is to every one . apost . constit. viii . 13. concil . ed. labb . tom. i. 483. e. the bishop receives , and then the priests , &c. and then all the people in order . again , 485. a. let the thirty third psalm be said while all the rest are receiving , and when all the men and all the women have received , let the deacons take what is left , &c. the same may be observed in all the antient liturgies . chrysost. in ephes. serm. 3. tom. iii. 778. 26. ye hear proclamation made , as many as are in penance be gone . as many as do not receive are in penance . ib. p. 779. 3. how is it that you tarry , and do not partake of the table ? you are vnworthy , you say ; then you are so of communi●n in prayer . your eyes are unworthy of these sights , and your ears are unworthy , &c. ib. line 13. it is no more lawful for you to be here , than for one that is not christned . e apostol . can. 9. repeted and explained by the council of antioch , can. 2. concil . edit . labb . tom. ii. p. 561. d. that all that come to church , and hear the holy scriptures ; but do not join in prayer with the people , or decline the receiving of the eucharist , therein doing disorderly ; these must be cast out of the church by excommunication . greg. i. dialog . ii. c. 23. at mass according to the custom , the deacon cried . if any one do not receive , let him give place . gratian. decret . de consecr . dist . 1. c. 59. and more at large , dist. 2. c. 10. peracta . after the consecration , let all receive that will not be put out of the church . for so it was ordained by the apostles , and is held by the holy roman church . on which words the gloss tells us ; thus it was antiently , but now every one is left to do as he pleases . f bellarm. de missa . ii. c. 9. tertia , saith we read no where expresly that the antients offered the sacrifice without the communion of some one or more beside the priest. yet we may easily gather it by conjectures . his first conjecture is from a canon of the council of nantes , which is not to be found but in ivo after the year 1100. his second is from that canon which teaches plainly the contrary , and which therefore i quoted in note ( c ) the rest are such weak colors for the justifying of this practice , that he might better have only gone about to excuse it , as he does cap. 10. septima , by saying , that new oftentimes the priest alone eats the sacrifice ▪ it is no fault of the priests , or the nature of the sacrifice , but the negligence of the people . but he seems to have forgot that at some masses the church does not require the presence of the people . a matth. xxvi . 27. b mar. xiv . 23. c 1 cor. x. 21. ye — drink the cup of the lord ; and xi . 26 , 27 , 28. ye eat this bread and drink this cup ; and 12 , 13. we have been all made to drink . so justin m. apol. 2. p. 97. e. and 98. e. declares the manner of those times , that every one of the people that were present at the sacrament did receive it in both kinds . d it appears that this manner was continued in following ages , it does not appear that it was changed in any church , till that doctrine came in which requires men to disbelieve their senses . this being hard to do in that part of the sacrament , the cup was taken away by degrees in these western churches . the first that writ for this use , ( as far as i can find ) was gislebertus , that lived about the year eleven hundred . aquinas , that lived about one hundred and fifty years after , says that then this new manner was providently observed in some churches . summ. part. iii. q. 80. art . 12. in corp. after one hundred and fifty years more was the council of constance , which enjoin'd it to all ; and that with a bold non obstante to all that christ had said or done to the contrary . for thus the decree . sess. 13. concil . ed. labb . tom. xii . 100. b , c. though christ administred this sacrament to his disciples in both kinds , of bread and wine ; yet notwithstanding this , — the approved custom of the church is otherwise . — and though in the primitive church this sacrament was then received by the faithful in both kinds ; yet this custom was brought up with good reason ; for the avoiding of some perils and scandals , &c. it seems they were such as christ did not foresee , or the antient church did not find , for otherwise this had not been then to do . a it makes the sacrifice of christ as much lower in value , as it is oftener offered than the levitical sacrifices . for the reason of their being often offered was because of their insufficiency to take away sin . heb. x. 11. had christs sacrifice been like theirs , he must often have suffered , heb. ix . 25 , 26. he must have oftentimes offered the same sacrifice , heb. x. 11. as they say he doth at every mass in the roman church . but this he needed not ; christs once was enough . heb. vii . 27. and ix . 12 , 26 , 28. and x. 10. he offered one sacrifice for sin for ever . heb. x. 12. and by that one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified , v. 14. so that there is no more offering for sin , v. 18. no more true proper propitiatory sacrifice . a the sacrament of the lords supper was ordained , for the remembrance and representation of the propitiatory sacrifice of christ , to be offered or made by every believer . he takes , eats , drinks ; he does this , in remembrance of christ. luk. xxii . 19. and so doing he sheweth forth the death of christ , 1 cor. xi . 26. and applieth to himself christs body broken and his blood shed for us . there goes with it an eucharistical sacrifice , that is , before the sacrament an oblation solemnly presented to god : in , and after it , a spiritual sacrifice of prayer and thanksgiving , an offering of our selves souls and bodies . for this every christian is a priest 1 pet. ii . 5. the manner of it is thus described in the old roman missal set forth by pamelius . after the reading of the gospel , the offertory is sung , and the oblations are offered by the people : out of which , bread and wine are set upon the altar to be consecrated ; and the prayer is said over the oblations . after this the priest began the canon of the mass , and said the commemoration in these words , remember lord , all here present , who offer to thee this sacrifice of praise , for themselves and all theirs . menardi sacr. gregor . p. 2. in those times men saw the oblations to which those words did refer . but afterward when there was no more such offering , and no more breaking of bread , but a wafer to be offered by the priest for the people , then the antient form was improper , and therefore they altered it thus . remember lord all here present , for whom we offer to thee , &c. so it stands now in the roman missal . where all the other prayers , which were designed for the eucharist , are misapplied to the new propitiatory sacrifice . and yet still they continue these following words of the prayer after the diptychs ; through our lord jesus christ , by whom thou o lord createst all these things always good , &c. and givest them to us . this they say over the wafer and wine after consecration . of the creatures of bread and wine , see the end of page 47. b bell. de missà . lib. l. cap 2. secundò . saith , all things whatsoever that are called sacrifices in scripture were of necessity to be destroyed : and that by killing them , if they were living things ; if without life , by burning them , &c. a bell. de missà . lib. i. cap. 27. the whole chapter . whether by 〈…〉 , &c. b 1562. jul. 24. padre pa●l● ▪ saith atai●e ▪ cardinal palavicino saith f●rer● shewed , that the sacrifice of the mass cannot be pr●ved from scripture alone , without tradition : particularly , that it cannot be pr●ved from christ , words at the last supper ▪ but by the uniform exposition of the fathers . he adds , that they did not so understand it , as if their sense were of faith. the truth is , the ancient fathers did not so understand our saviours words , nor perhaps did many of the trent fathers themselves . for when the question was put , whether christ at the last supper offered himself for a propitiatory sacrifice ; it held both the divines and bishops in long dispute , saith card. pallavicino . xvii . 13. 11 , &c. it was alledged on the one hand , that if that at the last supper was a true propitiatory sacrifice , then that upon the cross could be only in remembrance of this : and on the other hand , if it was not such a sacrifice , then there was no such sacrifice instituted by christ ; for the words of institution , hoc facite , could refer to nothing else but to what was done then and there . ( i have shewed that they refer to those words , take , eat , drink ; and were spoken to the disciples , as communicants , and no otherwise . ) after much time and heat , at last the doctrine was set down in these words , that at the last supper christ offered himself for a sacrifice , without saying whether propitiatory , or eucharistical . but neither did this satisfie , saith cardinal pallavicino , xviii . 9. 3. c suarez in tertiam aquin. disp . 41. art . i. secundò potest . saith , in the new testament there are no convincing testimonies to prove that there is a true proper sacrifice under the gospel . d none before iustin martyr speaks of sacrifice among christians ; unless clemens remanus , in his epist. ad cor. §. 36. where he calls christ the high priest of our offerings . but he speaks only of the sacrifice of praise , and contrite hearts . ibid. and §. 52. but for iustin in his book against tryphon , p. 344. c. he proves that we are all a holy priesthood , because god accepts none but priests : and yet all that offer the sacrifices which christ delivered , in the eucharist , or blessing of bread and wine , are accepted of god. and whereas the jews say that , since they have no temple , now their prayers are their sacrifice : so , saith he , i say ; that prayers and thanksgivings , offered by them that are worthy , are the only perfect sacrifices and acceptable to god. for christians have learnt to offer these things only ; and that even in commemoration of that food in which there is a remembrance of the passion of christ. the next father was irenaeus , who writing adversus haereses , lib iv. cap. 32. and 34. sheweth , that in the oblation at the eucharist those things which were offered to god according to the custom of those times were no other than his own creatures of bread and wine . see the end of page 45. and concludes , that our altar is in heaven ; for thither it is that we send up our prayers and oblations . which last words being taken into the canon of the roman mass remain there for a testimony against their new doctrine . e euseb. demonstr . evang. lib. i. cap. 10. edit . paris . 1628. p. 38. c. christ offered to god that eminent sacrifice for the salvation of us all , and delivered to us a memorial to offer to god continually instead of a sacrifice . again p. 39. a. we are taught to celebrate the memorial of that sacrifice [ of christ ] on a table by the symbols of his body and blood , he goes on thus to the end of that chapter . austin epist. 23. tom. ii. p. 93. b. towards easter , we say to morrow is the lords passion ; though it was many years ago that he suffered , and that passion was but once . so on easter-day , we say , to day the lord arose ; though so many years are passed since his resurrection . why is no man such a fo●l , to say we lie when we speak thus ? but because we name these days upon the account of their likeness to those days in which these things were done . was not christ but once offered in himself ? and yet in the sacrament he is sacrificed by the people , not every easter , but every [ communion ] day ; and it is no lie , if being asked one should answer that christ is sacrificed . chrysost. in hebr. s. 17. p. 523. 15. we offer not another sacrifice , as the high priest did [ among the jews . ] but we offer always the same . nay rather we make a remembrance of the sacrifice . f pet. lombard sent. lib. iv. dist . 12. puts the question , whether that which the priest doth , is called properly a sacrifice ? he answers , that which is offered and consecrated by the priest , is called a sacrifice and oblattion ; because it is a remembrance and representation of the true sacrifice on the cross. gratian de consecr . ii. dist . 2. c. 48 , 51 , 53 , 54. is plain for the sacrifice , but seems to be against the true proper propitiat●ry . a see euseb . demonst . evang. lib. 1. c. 10. p. 39 , 40. where he explains it also , of a contrite heart , and of praises and prayers . so in his eccles. hist. l. x. c. 4. p. 386. d. and life of constantin , lib. iv . c. 45. a chrysost. in 2 corin. v. 18. p. 647. 2. in these things there is no difference between the priest and the lay-man . b to allay a storm , to cure cattel , &c. see the roman missal . c conc. triden . sess. xxii . cap. 2. it is one and the same sacrifice with that which christ offered on the cross , and differs only in the way of offering it . a rev. xix . to st. ●word ●aith of the angel with whom he sp●ke . i fell down so worship him : and 〈◊〉 said to me . see thou do it not ; i am thy fellow servant . &c. worship god. again , rev. xxii . s. 9. the apostle was like to have committed the same error , taking the angel for christ whom he represented , and in whose name he spoke ; verse 13. and 16. till he was better informed by the angel himself . for , saith athanasius cont . arianos orat. 3. p. 394. b. angels know that they are , not of them that are to be worshipped , but if them that are to worship the lord. the like is said by st. austin de vera relig. c. 55. tom. l. p. 717. c. b coloss. ii . 1s . let no man beguile you of your reward , in a voluntary humility , — worshipping of angels , intending into things he hath not 〈◊〉 . whether is was that superstition of the essens mentioned by i●sep●us de bell . jud. xi 7. or whether that of simon magus , serving angels , which was accounted a sort of idolatry , and condemned by st. peter the apostle , as tertullian saith , de praefer , haeret . c. 33. p. 245. b. chrys●st . in coloss. s. 1. p. 90. 9. saith , it was the chief design of that epistle , to beat down the error of them that made addresses to god by the angels . ibid. s. 5. p. 114. 14. he saith , it was the devil , that put it in their heads . ibid. s. 6. p. 123. 27. they said ▪ we must come to god by his angels ; and not [ immediately ] by christ , for that is a thing too high for us . this error , saith theodoret in his comment on that text , continued long among the people of colossae and of the adjacent countries . and for this cause a council met at la●dicet , a city about twenty miles from colossae , made a law against praying to angels . it is the 35. canon of that council , that no christian so all leave the church , and go , and name angels ; that is , call upon them in prayer , as all the scholiasts understand it , with theodoret above-mentioned . to do which thing , the council saith , is secret idolatry : a charge that so nearly touches them in the roman church , that , to avoid it , they have made no conscience of turning the word angelos into angulos , and the sense of the canon into nonsense , in their latin editions of that council . a they hold that all that died before christ were in limbus patrum till his resurrection ; and therefore could not hear the prayers of the living . this is observed by bellarm. de sanct. beat. l. 19. item exod. who therefore , as he pretends not to bring any text out of the new testament , so might have spared those which he brings out of the old testament , to prove the invocation of saints in heaven , which is the thing in question . b card. p●rron replique v. 12. granteth , that for prayer to saints , there is no precept nor any formal example in scripture . c ibid. v. 19. p. 871. he also granteth , that in the authors who lived next the times of the apostles — there is not to be found any footstep of this . but he comforts himself , that in them there is nothing repugnant , but all favourable to it . of which see more in the next note . d for scripture . 1 kings viii . 39. thou only knowest the hearts of all men . psal. lxv . 2. thou that hearest prayer , to thee shall all flesh come . mat. iv . 10. thou shalt worship the lord thy god , and him only shalt thou serve . christ also sheweth us this in his perfect pattern of prayer . for the fathers of the apostles times ; see justin martyr before in p. 20. note ● , i. the church or 〈◊〉 in their epistle concerning polycarp's death , says , it was a calumny of the iews , who said that we would worship him after his death . for we cannot leave christ , nor can we worship any other . for we worship him , as being the s●n of god : but for the martyrs , as being the disciples and f●ll●wers of the lord ▪ we 〈◊〉 them accordingly . uss. edit . p. 27. theophilus antioch . ad au●ol . l. p. 77. a. the king will not allow any that bear office under him to be called kings . — so neither is it lawful for any so be worshipped ▪ but god only . tertullian scorp . c. 4. p. 620. i am prescribed not to call any other , god ; — nor so other , nor so worship , any other , in any manner whatsoever . a austin confess . lib. 6. c. 2. tom. i. p. 108. b. saith , it was the custom in afric to bring potages and bread and wine to the monuments of the saints . and thus his mother monica did till st. ambrose rebuked her for it . the like was done in other countries . it was a custom brought in out of heathenism . a austin serm. de sanctis 47. we expect by their intercession to receive of the lord temporal benefits . it is in the r●●an breviary , the fourth lesson in commune plu●im . mart. extra temp . pasch. b some of the fathers , as nazianzen , &c. used those rhetorical or poetical streins , which sounded like formal prayers . but they were not so intended , as appears by his calling upon saints with these additions . if you have any sense , or if you have any care of our matters : which plainly sheweth that he spoke in imitation of the heathen orators and poets , or of the academic philosophers who held nothing certain concerning the state of departed souls . greg. naz. in gorgoniam , & stelit . 1. c basil and austin have some tast of that platonic opinion ; that souls hover about those places where their bodies or any part of them is laid . and hence they thought that the souls of the martyrs might be present to hear and to dispatch those suits that were made at their memories . bas● of st. mamas tom. i. p. 595. d. aug. de cura pro mort . c. 16. tom. iv. p. 892. b. d st. austin de ver● religione . c. 55. tom. 1. p. 716. c. says he worship● 〈◊〉 dead men● should be no part of our religion . if they have 〈…〉 to be honoured for imitation , not to be worshipped for religion . e epiphan . haer . ●g . cap. 5. neither is elias to be worshipped , 〈…〉 among the living● nor is john to be worshipped ; — 〈◊〉 is tecla , no● any 〈◊〉 the saints worshipped : and cap. 7. though mary was a 〈…〉 and holy , and honoured ; yet not so as to be worshipped . f greg. nyssen , cont. eunom . or . 4. edit . paris 1635. tom. ii. p. 146. b. we are taught to consider every creature as being without the divine nature , and to worship and adore that nature only which is not created . aug. de quant . animae , c. 34. tom. i. p. 598. c. it is divinely and singularly delivered in the catholic church , that the soul is to worship no creature , but him only that is the creator of all things . g aug. in psal. lxvi . tom. viii . p. 661. b. he alone of them that hath w●rn flesh , there within the veil makes intercession for us . id. cont . parmen . l. 2. c. 8. tom. vii . p. 32. b. he who intercedes for all , and none for him , is the only and true mediator . h that this is not the sense of the now roman church , appears by the index expurgatorius , ed. madrit , 1667. which on those words of nyssen note ( ● ) bids , strike out the word only . p. 146. col. 1. from the index of epiphanius , bids strike out these words , that no creature is to be worshipped ; and also those , that saints are not to be worshipped . p. 547. col. 1. and 2. and from the index of st. austin , strike out those words , that only god is to be worshipped ; and also those , that saints are to be honoured , and not worshipped . p. 56. col. 2. and p. 57. col. 2. we may be sure that what they dislike is not their own doctrine . a bellarm. de sanct. beat. l. 19. probatur quinto , shews how it was proved by visions and miracles . b by hymns and antiphons . c gratian deer . ii. caus . 13. c. 2. c. 29. the case has his sense in these words . gratian m●ves the question . whether they that are departed this life know what is done here by the living ? and he answereth that they do not . lombard sent. l. 4. c. 45. sed forte . puts the question whether saints hear the prayers of their petitioners ? and he answereth , that it is not incredible that they do . this was far enough from a certainty . d conc. trent . sess. ult . founds this worship on this doctrine , that the saints are in heaven and reign with christ. this is the foundation of all , saith bellarmin de sanct. beat. in praef. for therefore the souls of the prophets and patriarchs were not so worshipped and called upon , as we n●w worship and call upon the apostles and martyrs ; because they were yet kept shut up in the infernal prisons . now that all deceased christians are shut up in like manner , ( the saints not excepted , ) was the doctrine of the old roman church . for thus she prayed ; lord remember all thy servants and all thy handmaids , who have gone before us with the sign of faith , and who sleep● the sleep of ●eace . grant to all that rest in christ a place of refreshing , and of light and peace , we humbly beseech thee . liturg. gregor . in bibl. patr. gr. lat. tom. ii. p. 129. c. therefore also , in their masses for any bishop that died , they prayed thus ; grant , o lord , that this oblation may profit the soul of thy servant and bishop such a one . gregor . sacram. super oblata , edit . menardi . p. 227. and edit . pamelii . p. 38● . and thus they prayed yearly for pope le● i. on his day iune , 28. as appears in edit . menardi . p. 112. and thus for pope gregory i. on his day , ma●th 12. as appears in edit . pamelii . p. 209. but in the now roman missal all these prayers are changed . and great reason they should be so , when the church has changed her doctrine . for as the gloss saith of le● , antiently the church prayed for him , but now he prayeth for us , and so the church office was changed . gregor . decr. iii. 41. 6. tertio loco . therefore now the prayer on those saints-days is thus ; grant , lord , that this oblation may profit vs by the intercession of thy servant le● , or gregory . and yet in the office pro defunctis ; and that as well for any other , as for a bishop ; the words are still , ( what they used for those saints in former times , ) grant , o lord , that this oblation may pr●●it the soul of thy servant such a one . and for that prayer above-mentioned , in canon missae commem . pro defunctis , they first left out those words all thy servants and all thy hand-maids ; and prayed thus , lord remember them who have gone before us , as it standeth in ed. pamelii . p. 182. but the word them extending to saints as well as others , they altered it again , remember lord thy servants and hand-maids n. and n. who are gone before us . but still the end of that prayer remains as it was , grant all that rest in christ a place of refreshing , and of light and peace , we humbly beseech thee . they that made this prayer did not believe that the saints were already in heaven ; and therefore they knew not the foundation of these prayers to saints that are now used in the roman church . a p. 24 , 29 , 30. b 2 tim. i. 18. st. paul prays for onesiphorus ; the lord grant unto him that he may find mercy of the lord in that day : that is , at the day of judgment . he might well be living when st. paul made that prayer . c conc. trent . sess. 25. that the souls which are kept there in purgatory are profited by the prayers of the faithful . bellarm. de purg. lib. 2. c. 38. it is certain that the prayers of the church do not profit the blessed , nor the damned , but only them that live in purgatory . azor. instit. moral . tom. i. lib. 8. c. 20. neque vero ; saith , the greeks pray for the dead : but certainly neither for the blessed , nor for the damned , which were plainly absurd and impious . the truth is , the greeks prayed for the blessed ; even for the virgin mary , and the apostles . and so did the antient roman church ; in those offices which the present roman church hath both corrupted , and misapplyed . d in the mass for the dead , there is not the name of purgatory ; nor it doth not appear that the church thought of any such thing . the hymn is wholely of the day of judgment . the prayers are for deliverance at that day : and if they are for any thing else , it is nothing but what is asked for all the faithful as much as for any person . the lessons and sequences are all concerning the resurrection . there is not among them one text of those many that are brought for the proof of purgatory : except only 2. mac. xii . 43. which according to the roman doctrine should be rather for 〈◊〉 , than for purgatory ; but indeed it relates to neither , but ( as the office intends it , ) to the resurrection . a they are agreeable enough to several of those opinions concerning the state of souls , which are mentioned before p. 29. note ( a. ) b see ▪ p. 55 , 56. c miss . pro defunct . o●●ertorium ; lord iesus — deliver the souls of all faithful 〈◊〉 from the pains of hell — that they may not fall into darkness ; but that the standard-bearer st. michael may carry them into eternal light . ibid. the prayer in the obits ; we pray thee for the soul of thy servant n. that thou wouldest not deliver it into the hands ●f the enemy ▪ no● f●rget it for ever ; but command it to be received by thy holy angels , and be led to the land of the living . that he may come to rejoyce in the society of thy saints ; so miss . sarum . that he may not suffer eternal pains but p●ssess eternal joys ; so the old roman . but the new has changed eternal into infernal , as being more for the sense of the present church . d ib. tractus . absolve , o lord , the souls of all the faithful decea●t from every b●nd of their sins ; and by the 〈◊〉 if thy grace let them obtain to escape the iudgment of vengeance , and to enjoy the blessedness of eternal light. ib. post-communion among the diverse prayers ; o lord , the soul of this thy servant from every bond of his sins ; that , in the glory of the resurrection , he being raised again may have refreshment among thy saints and 〈◊〉 ones . a c●●nc . tr●nt . sess. 25. d●cr . of purgat●ry . let the bishops take care , that the suffrages of the living faithful , v●● . the sacrifices of misses and prayers , &c. which have been usually made for the faithful deceased , be made according to the ordinance of the church . a see p. 20. note , d. b for their saints . whom they make sharers with christ in their prayers , and pray to god to be heard for their merits and intercession , not a few of the persons themselves are meer fictions ; as st. christopher , st. parnel , st. catherine , st. win●frid , st. vrsula and her eleven thousand companions . most of the others are of doubtful authority : and some ▪ for ought they can know , and as they have reason to fear , are damned souls : as pope steven , pope marcel●●nus , pope felix ii , st. thomas becket , st. deminie . but of the true saints , not a few of their stories are fables ; as those of the immuculate conception , presentation , and assumption of the virgin mary ; of the apparition of st. michael ; may , s. of the martyrdoms of some apostles , of almost all the antient popes ; of st. denis and his fellows , &c. add the tales of st. peters chains , august , 1. of the dedication of the later●n , and the vatican churches , novemb. 9. and 18. c conc. trent sess. 22. cap. 8. it hath seemed to the fathers not to be expedient that every where mass should be said in the vulgar tongue . there is an order indeed , that oftentimes between the masses some body should expound somthing to the people of what is read to them in the mass. suppose some part of the gospel , or the like . but that will not make them able to join with him that reads it . and bellarmin saith , in those mysteries there are many things which ought to be secret : meaning i suppose , that the people ought not to understand them . bellar. de verbo dei. i. ii. c. 15. septim● . a gun-powder treason edit . 1679. p. 1●9 . f●r from the year eliz. 1. unto 11. all papists came to our church and service without scruple . — but when 〈◊〉 the bull of pope pius quintus was come and published , wherein the queen was accursed and deposed , and her subjects discharged of their obedience and oath , yea , cursed if they did obey her ; then did they all f●r●●with refrain the church , then would they have no more society with us in prayer . a 3● . art. art. 6. b see. p. 10. note ● , &c. c lb. art. 6. and this is proved in bishop cousins book of the canon of the scripture . d art. 8. e office of baptism . wilt thou be baptized in this faith ? i will. f this alone was enough to make one a catholic in the times of the christian emperors . cod. theodos. lib. xvi . edicta de fide catholicà . a canon anno 1571. of pre●●●ers . we are obliged , under pain of excommunication , to teach nothing but what is agreeable to the old and new testament , and what the catholic fathers and antient bish●ps have gathered out of that very doctrin . statut. 1. eliz. 1. we judg all those things to be heresie which were declared so by the four general councils : therein following the judgment of the antient church . see aelfrics saxon canon 33. there were four councils for defence of the faith against haereties . — there were many 〈◊〉 , since that time , but these four were the most firm . b art. s. c see the commination . d 1 cor. i. 11 , 12. and v. 2 , &c. and see clemens epistle to the corinthians . e art. 23. and offices of ordination . a proved by mason in his book de minist . angl. b rom. xiii . 6. c mason ibid. and bramhal of succession . d art. 25. e art. 24. f 1 cor. xiv . 16. a art. 20. b 1 cor. xiv . 40. c art. 34. and pre●a●es before the liturgy . d cyp●●● epist. ●2 . p. 151. & 〈…〉 carthag . de 〈◊〉 . bapt. p. 353. e anno 1603. can. 3● . the church of england declares : that she was so far from being willing to depart from the churches of italy , france , spain . germany . &c. in all things that she knew they held and observed ; that she disserted from those churches in th●se articles only , in which they first fell away , ●●th from their own former integrity , and also from the apostolical churches from which they had their original . a matth. xxiv . 23. mar. xiii . 21. b john vi . 68. c 2 tim. i. 13. d jude verse 3. a 2 tim. iii. 16 , 17. b verse 15. c heb. xiii . 17. d heb. x. 25. e rom. vi . 5. a 1 cor. xi . 26. b 2 pet. iii. 18. a heb. xii . 14. a heb. vi . 9. considerations touching the true way to suppress popery in this kingdom by making a distinction between men of loyal and disloyal principles in that communion : on occasion whereof is inserted an historical account of the reformation here in england. lloyd, william, 1627-1717. 1677 approx. 297 kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from 91 1-bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : 2004-03 (eebo-tcp phase 1). a48816 wing l2676 estc r2677 12412562 ocm 12412562 61564 this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons 0 1.0 universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase 1, no. a48816) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set 61564) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, 1641-1700 ; 767:16) considerations touching the true way to suppress popery in this kingdom by making a distinction between men of loyal and disloyal principles in that communion : on occasion whereof is inserted an historical account of the reformation here in england. lloyd, william, 1627-1717. [16], 164 p. printed for henry brome ..., london : 1677. errata: prelim. p. [16]. includes bibliographical references. this item can also be found as part of lloyd's several tracts against popery located at reel 388:23. reproduction of original in huntington library. created by converting tcp files to tei p5 using tcp2tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between 1473 and 1700 available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the 25,363 texts created during phase 1 of the project have been released into the public domain as of 1 january 2015. anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. 5% (or 5 pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of 100 instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level 4 of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p5, characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng catholic church -england. reformation -england. 2003-11 tcp assigned for keying and markup 2003-12 spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images 2004-01 john latta sampled and proofread 2004-01 john latta text and markup reviewed and edited 2004-02 pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion considerations touching the true way to suppress popery in this kingdom : by making a distinction between men of loyal and disloyal principles in that communion . on occasion whereof is inserted an historical account of the reformation here in england . london : printed for henry brome in st. paul's church-yard , at the west end . 1677. a preface . the reader will find this book to be of a mixt nature , and in some places of a different stile ; as being compos'd at distant times , and by two several hands . one part of it is a proposition for securing the civil state against the danger of popery , by making a distinction between them of the roman communion . the other part , which is inserted into the former , concerns the chief and original controversies between ours and the roman church . for that part which belongs to the civil state , it was most of it printed about a year since , as appears by several instances a , of which the reader is desired to take notice , that there may be no mistake in the timeing of some things . the model of this part was drawn up by a worthy gentleman , who thought it a design , not only agreeable to his known moderation , but really practicable ; and likely to be exceedingly beneficial toward the safety of this kingdom at home , and the honour of it abroad ; to which nothing would more conduce , and yet nothing is more wanting , than some kind of general unity of the english nation within it self . but what is here said on this argument , the reader is intreated to interpret with the same candor with which it was intended . for the things proposed being only spoken problematically , it cannot be expected they should be deliver'd with great exactness ; and it is but reason that every little expression should not be called to a severe account , in a treatise , where the whole design it self is not imposed , but only offer'd to be fairly consider'd . if any one think that even this is a boldness , which private men should not allow themselves , in matters which belong to the government , the author could wish all men were of that mind , though it put him to the cost of an apology for himself in this particular . but he is not so ignorant of the age we live in , as not to know that this liberty is commonly taken ; and that none is censured for it , that does not much exceed the bounds of modesty . and if others can extend this liberty so far , as to write books that tend directly to disturb the publick settlement ; he does not see what need he can have for an excuse for writing that which can have no other end but to promote it . to speak plain , he has seen divers pieces of late , whereof some go about from hand to hand , to disswade men from taking the oath of allegiance ; others , and those not a few of late years , have been printed and sold publicly in behalf of a general toleration . what is , if this be not , to assault the publick settlement ? and either to force our governors to alter it , or to set the people against them for continuing it ? not to mention the reproaches that are thrown upon the memory of them by whom the settlement was made . whereas , here , is no design to alter any thing of it , any farther than may be needful to make it the more practicable in our times . to a people that is always prone to compassion , and of late so much discomposed by a civil war , no doubt the extreme severity of laws is likely to hinder the practicableness of them . and it is not the severity of laws , but the practice , that tends to the security of the state. and therefore the alteration here proposed is so far from having any reflection on the wisdom of our legislators in former times , that there is no reason to doubt that they would have made it themselves if they had lived in our present circumstances . if the author commit any error in judging thus ; he is not obstinate in it , but submits this together with the rest to the iudgment of wise and good men ; and especially to the publick wisdom , which must be acknowledg'd to be the most proper , and it were well if it were the only iudg in these matters . the other things b contained in this book were added by another person ; who , being well persuaded of the usefulness of the foregoing design , was desirous to improve it to farther advantage . and therefore he thought it would be an useful labour , and prudent counsel ; not only to render the civil state easie to the peaceable romanists among us , but to make them also well disposed to our church , as well as state. he is of opinion , that , if many of their nobility and gentry , and some of their moderate clergy , shall once come to live amicably with us , on the terms here mentioned , or on any other that shall be thought more discreet and seasonable ; they would by degrees suffer themselves to be calmly instructed in the iustice of our cause , and they would without prejudice examin which side is to be blam'd for the divisions between us . and then he doubts not but many of them would in time discover how much they have been misinformed concerning the state of our differences . to this purpose , hoping to find the most ingenuous of their laity , and even some of their well-meaning priests , in good humour , while they are reading a book which pleads something in their favour ; he has taken this opportunity to give them some light into the occasion and progress of the first breach between us and them . this he knows to be a subject , in which the generality of their laity and clergy are most confident , and seem most to triumph . but they are much mistaken in matter of fact ; as here the reader will see it evidently prov'd , out of unquestionable records , and impartial writers , many even of their own side . from whence it will appear that the whole business of the schism was begun and continued on the popes side for their secular interests and passions ; whilest the reformation , on the part of our church and state , was managed all along with great iustice and prudent moderation . after all that has been said , it is more than possible , that of one sort of men , there may be some ( i hope not the wisest among them ) who upon other accounts may take offence at both parts of this book . in the political part , perhaps offence may be taken at the liberty of this proposal ; as seeming too favourable to them of the roman communion , without the like consideration for any other dissenters . but the favour here proposed in behalf of the romanists , is not more than they enjoy among protestants abroad at this day : nor so much as the generality of those who are most zealous against them have thought fit heretofore to allow to persons differing only in opinion . they did not think it fit that even heretics themselves should suffer any capital punishment , barely upon account of their opinions , how dangerous soever they might be to mens souls . some , even of themselves , have written of late that no punishment should be inflicted on men for opinions that are not dangerous to the state. they who are of this mind have no reason to take offence at this book , because the favour desired in it is for persons as innocent in that respect as themselves . and for them that think errors are punishable by the state , on account of the hurt that they do to mens souls ; they will not find so great occasion of offence as they may possibly expect . for the author does not plead for any other exemption of roman-catholick , than such as will leave them still liable to as much severity , as themselves , if they are obnoxious to the laws , can think fit to be inflicted on men barely for differences in opinion . here is nothing proposed for their exemption from any incapacitating laws , or from the penalties against saying mass publickly , or against their endeavouring to make proselytes ; which last thing is death to roman-catholicks , and not at all penal to any other . these things being considered together , their condition will not be to be envied by any other dissenters , if they should have all the favour that is propounded for them in this book . but the common protestant religion will be better secured by it , which ought to satisfie any one that pretends to that name . for that part which concerns the controversies , it is suggested by another , ( which otherwise the author could scarce have expected , ) that some may think him too favourable to the romish opinions , or too much unconcerned for the defence of other protestant churches . he does not see how any one , that minds what he reads , can suspect him of favour to the principles of the roman communion ; having given sufficient reason , why he cannot embrace them , without losing his hopes of salvation . in the managing of the controversie , if he seem not to write in the defence of any other reformed church ; his answer is , that he does not write to the adversaries of the reformed religion , in any other than in his majesties dominions . and if his defence of our church be sufficient , it will overthrow that infallibility of the roman church , by which she pretends a iurisdiction over all others , and by which alone all her particular impositions are iustifiable . which will afford an easie apology to other churches who do not think themselves oblig'd to submit to those impositions . the contents . that there are many false notions of popery page 1. wherein the true notion of it consists 2. viz. chiefly , in owning the popes pretended authority ; and consequently , in submitting to his terms of communion 3. this proved , i. in that all the other points of popery were establisht by this pretended authority 5. ii. the owning of it is that on which the papists chiefly insist 7. iii. it is the most hurtful to church and state 13. and therefore worst in construction of our laws 18. that there is therefore a real difference between papists 24. for that they are not properly called so that deny the popes supremacy 25. and they that own it in spirituals only , are less perfectly papists than they that own it both in spirituals and temporals 26. that accordingly to distinguish between them by laws is the only true way for the suppressing of popery 27. that undistinguishing severity is not the way . for i. it is a way that being taken would not be effectual 28. ii. it would not seem iust and equal 33. iii. it would be against the interest of england 42. and would promote the roman interest pgae 49. a toleration of all sects among us would be most pleasing to them at rome 52. but next to it , an undistinguishing severity against all roman catholics 57. that to distinguish between such of them as will give security to the state and such as will not i. would be an effectual way to suppress popery 61. ii. that it would be iust and equal 71. iii. that it would be for the interest of england 76. it would cause many to fall under the pope's censures 78. and thereby give them occasion to consider how groundless the pope's pretence is to an authority over us 81. how justly it was thrown out of england by k. henry viii . 90. and afterward by q. elizabeth 108. the iustifiableness of the reformation 111. if it should fail of this effect , yet it would make them sure to our civil interests 133. objections against this way of discrimination as not being practicable 135. i. the roman church and court are all one in their principles ; being obliged to own the popes authority 137. 1. in spiritual things 138. 2. and also in temporals 144. answer to this objection 150. ii. they have ways to elude all the assurance they can give us 152. answer to this objection 154. iii. we can have no assurance of their constancy 158 answer to this 158 conclusion 160. the reader is desired to take notice that the quotations out of l. herbert's history of k. henry viii . were taken at distant times out of two books of different edition● , and not paged alike ; and that this was not observed , till those sheets in which the quotations are had past the press . the errata of any moment are to be corrected as follows . pag. 2. lin . 13. ( anciently famous ) p. 14 l. 25. of this . p. 17. l. 31. and yet that . p. 29. l. 14 , 15. no parenthesis . p. 46. l. 33. in the margin ib. ann . 1602. p. 276. p. 47. l. 1. in the margin put out the same words . ibid. l. 24. dependance on the. p. 53. l. 33. undistinguishing execution of laws , p. 58. l. 33. convince such a one that all his . p. 64. l. 9. in their streets . p. 67. l. 27. pretence to the. p. 81. l. 6. christ , he . p. 84. l. 14. churches epistle to . p. 85. margin , last line , anno 445. p. 91. l. 8. in margin . schism . p. 103. b. edit . 1585. p. 92. l. 19. he would never . l. 15. in marg . l. herb. anno 1529. p. 271. l. 26. in marg . the first . l. 29. pallavic . hist. conc. trent . ii. 15.5 . p. 94. marg . l. 4. camd. ib. p. 1. & 2. p. 94. l. 20. delays , and either . p. 100. l. 2. three . p. 101. l. 28. & 29. ( to use his own words ) p. 102. l. 12. large an account . p. 104. l. 29. particularly should begin a paragraph . p. 107. l. 30. had his traitorous . p. 113. l. 26. in marg . camd. eliz. p. 13. l. 29. in marg . she put out . p. 115. l. 30. pass without any . considerations about the true way of suppressing popery in this kingdom . among the ignorant vulgar , there are many false and wild notions of popery ; some of which being admitted to be true , would render the church of england , and all other reformed churches popish . other notions of it would in like manner stigmatize all those famous churches in the more remote parts of the world , which have not been in communion with the pope these eight hundred years . and others , in the last place , would no less deeply brand those who are most given to asperse others , even the wildest of phanaticks and enthusiasts themselves , as being popishly principled . if it be , as sure it is , very absurd to charge popery on those eminent eastern and western churches , which ever since the separation of the one , and the reformation of the other , have purged forth , and kept themselves free from all that which is properly popish ; and have therefore been anathematized by the pope himself , and excluded from the communion of all those christians which hold him for their ecclesiastical head : it must also be no less absurd to charge with popery those tenets of belief , and rites of worship ( however false and unnecessary in themselves ) wherein the roman catholick churches differ from the english protestant , and other churches of the reformation ; but agree with those anciently famous patriarchical churches ; and almost with all other in the remote parts of the world. having thus , how briefly soever , said what may be sufficient , to exclude the many , both incongruous and injurious notions of popery ; which also would be insignificant , if they were admitted , i shall in the next place endeavour to set forth the only true , proper and significant notion of it . and yet if i be not much deceived , 't will be no hard matter to fix upon , and shew wherein this only right notion of popery does consist . the very derivation of the word , and obvious reason of the thing , necessarily imported thereby , may assure us , it cannot in a few significant words be describ'd to be either less , or more , or any way other , than an undue adhaesion to the bishop of rome , in principles or practices falsly pretended to be christian. i say , to the bishop of rome , because he it is that hath for many ages past , appropriated to himself the name of pope , which was formerly common to all bishops ; as every one knows that has been conversant in the writings of the fathers . i say also , an undue adhaesion in principles , &c. for it 's , supposed to be an ill thing that is to be supprest . now it is not ill to confess the apostles creed , or to do any good thing that he does ; but to follow him , or to joyn with him in any thing that is evil ; that is chiefly , to assert an undue power or authority in the pope , such as that which he assumes to himself over the whole christian church ; and consequently , to embrace and to practice those errours and corruptions ( whatsoever they are ) that by virtue of that usurpt power and authority , he imposes on all those that are or shall be in communion with him ; and excommunicates all that will not come to those terms ; not so much for their aversness to those doctrines and practices , as because they will not submit to his power and authority . though i must withal observe here , as consequential to my former observation of so many false notions of popery , that laying aside its capital errour ; ( viz. that which directly asserts the pretended universal power of the pope ) it is no necessary evil of any inferiour , subservient errours or practices , at least , of any of those which are not peculiar to the roman church ( how false or vain soever they be in themselves ) but the unnecessary embracing them out of pure submission to the usurpt authority of the roman bishop , now stiled pope , and the only pope of the world , is it , that in any right sense of the word , renders them truly popish . and this i must acknowledge to be so , whether we regard the derivation of the word , or reasons of the thing it self . i mean , those reasons which evince the only proper significant notion of popery , to be that which i have given before in the fewest words i could well fix upon to define or describe it . what those reasons are , we have , as to one part of them , seen already ( by seeing that if popery be taken otherwise , all christian churches in the world must be confessedly popish ; ) and as to the other part also , we shall now see . for now i am to shew , that even by the judgment of such as ought best to understand their own doctrine , the very chief thing in popery , is the owning and asserting the papal authority . without question , there is nothing which they have more driven at from the beginning , or which they now more eagerly contend for in the roman church , and especially the governing part of it ; as it were easie to shew in many instances ; but a few will suffice , because the matter is so well known to all men of reading and experience . to begin with the original of popery . there is nothing more certain and plain in church-history , then that the primitive christians , being generally subjects of the roman empire , had a very great respect for the bishops of rome , because that was the imperial city . and yet it is as plain , that those bishops had no authority or jurisdiction out of their own province , that is beyond the suburbicary region of italy , till after the division of the roman empire into eastern and western . it was not long after that division , and chiefly upon the weakness of the western empire , that that power , which we now call the papacy , grew up . as the empire decay'd , so by degrees it encreased and gathered strength ; the design being at first , not to set up a new religion , but a new monarchy in the place of the old then expiring . the caesars having made rome their seat of empire for so many ages , and being at last driven out by the barbarous nations , it seemed as if the genius of the place had inspired the roman bishops to perk up , and to erect a new empire in the stead . which was no hard thing for them to do , being assisted with all manner of advantagious circumstances . having learn'd from their predecessors , to derive their descent from st. peter , how truly , it matters not , this gave them colour enough to take upon them to be all that he was . their see , their traditions , their dictates , were all stiled apostolical . the popes title was then , his apostleship ; for his holiness was too vulgar in those days . whatsoever preheminence or power those caesars by their laws , or their subjects the christian bishops in their councils had given them , as being bishops of the imperial city , when they had gain'd the city wholly to their devotion , and made their party among the barbarous nations , they scorn'd to hold it any longer by gift . all that had been so given them , and whatsoever they grasp'd more , they held it iure divino , as being heirs and successors to st. peter . by this means having shook off their obligation to canons and laws , they took upon them to be as infallible as st. peter was ; whose very name they did not stick to usurp when they pleased , as if christ had spoken to them , whatsoever he said personally to cephas . and whosoever objected ( as some always did ) that those pretensions were new , and that there is no ground for them in scripture , they could then face them down with those things which now they do not love to hear of ; namely , with forg'd decretal epistles , or councils , or fathers , or with pretended revelations and visions , or with counterfeit miracles . for all which they had those at their beck , who ( though ignorant enough otherwise ) had more learning and skill to forge such things , than others had at that time to disprove them . thus in a blind age ( nay many ages together ) when this part of the world was conducted and governed in spiritual things by one-eyed men , for the popes themselves were no better , it is no wonder that the generality of the people ran into so many errours as they did , to the great hurt and scandal of the christian religion . and though 't is charitable to believe , that at first there was no design to have those errours obtruded on the faith of posterity ; yet appearing to be such , as might be of great use for the wealth and greatness of the clergy , who were strongly attach'd to the roman see , nay some of them to the advancement of the papacy it self : the pope had great cause to look kindly upon them , and to wish they were no errours , but catholick doctrines ( and if he pleased to have them such , who durst say they were otherwise ? ) when they had once receiv'd that publick countenance from him , he had much greater cause to continue it , and by all possible ways to keep them in possession of that esteem which those dark times had given them . and that not only for affection , as before , on the account of their usefulness to himself and his clergy ; but for fear that if these errours were detected and brought in disgrace , it might reflect on the infallibility of the roman see , and might give men occasion to look farther , and to examine the whole fabrick of popery ; which being search'd to the bottom , it could not but appear , that the fundamental errour was that which gave the pope such a power and authority over the whole christian church . this was truly the cause why such care was continually taken in all the latter general councils ( for so the pope was pleas'd to call those conventions of his vassels , in which nothing pass'd but what he pleas'd ) to establish those popular errours as they grew up , and to put them out of question by their canons and decrees . whereas the great capital errour was never defin'd , but supposed , and pass'd ( as all fundamentals do ) by such a general consent , as is stronger than all positive laws whatsoever . it pass'd thus for many ages , till upon occasion of that long schism , when for about fifty years , the western church carried double , a pope and an antipope , that rid cursing and damning one another , the council of constance being met to judge which was which , deposed both , and began to set bounds to the papacy . it was follow'd by the council of basil ; which presuming to do the same , and being likely enough to have gone farther ; the pope that then was , call'd an opposite council , and therein settled his authority by a law. it was the council of florence , which though not acknowledg'd by many roman catholicks abroad , and particularly , not by the generality of them in france : yet since i write this to english men , i shall shew what they of our nation thought of it , at the last revolution to popery ; from whence we may take some kind of measure , and guess what many would be at again . it was declar'd by the cardinal legate , a with consent of his synod at london , that the cause of all the evils in this church , sprang from hence , that departing from the vnity and doctrine of the catholick church , we had relinquished the authority and obedience of the pope of rome , christ's vicar , and the successor of peter . the denial of this authority , was declar'd b to be the chief errour of protestants . to correct which , they thought fit to set forth the true doctrine , as it was delivered in the eighth general council at florence , held under pope engenius iv. of happy memory , in these words : we declare , that the holy apostolical see and pope of rome , holds the primacy over all the world ; and that the pope of rome is the successor of st. peter , the prince of the apostles , and is the true vicar of christ , and head of the whole church , and father and teacher of all christians ; and that to him , in st. peter , our lord iesus christ gave full power to feed , rule and govern the vniversal church . since the council of florence , there have been only two pretended general councils ; namely , the fifth lateran , and the council of trent ; both which were acknowledged by that synod of london above mentioned . the fifth lateran council was call'd by the pope , for no other end , but that he might be able to write their approbation in the stile of those bulls which he should publish for the greatness of the papacy . in the first of those c bulls , he damn'd the pisan council , which the french king had assembled against him . in the second , d he laid an interdict on the whole kingdom of france , and ordered the fair of lions to be removed from thence to geneva . in a third , e he annulled the famous pragmatick sanction , the palladium of the french church . and so went on , till having brought the french king to his terms , his next bull f was , to set himself above all general councils ; and to declare , that all christians , sub necessitate salutis , under pain of damnation , must be subject to the pope of rome , according to that luciferian constitution of boniface viii , which he mentions and approves , and confirms . all this he does with consent of that council . the council of trent , which came last , and pinn'd the basket , not only took care to leave the pope in full possession of this usurp'd power , by declaring , g that no act of theirs should infringe it , and by making him judge and interpreter of all their decrees ; but also confirmed it to him , as much as in them lay . for they ordained , h that in every church of the roman communion , at the first provincial synod after that council , every member thereof , should promise and profess true obedience to the pope ; and that all that were preferr'd for the future , whether to bishoprick , dignity , or cure of souls , should promise and swear the like obedience , in such form as the pope should prescribe . whereupon pope pius iv. made that i form of profession of faith , that is every where taken at this day ; whereof one clause is , i promise and swear true obedience to the pope of rome , successor to st. peter , prince of the apostles , and vicar of iesus christ. beside these publick acts , which have a general influence on all parts and members of the roman communion ; there is a special tye on the governing part of it ( if not by their interest ) by another oath , which is taken by all archbishops , bishops & abbots at their consecration . the form of it is prescrib'd in the roman pontificale ; to which i refer the reader that would see it at large . there he may see how all church-governours of that communion , bind themselves to the pope , to be his liege-men and subjects , his counsel-keepers , his spies and intelligencers , his constant correspondents , his factors , his sworn servants , in express terms , to the utmost of their power to persecute and impugn all hereticks , schismaticks and rebels against the pope ( their own natural prince , parents , kindred , and friends not excepted . ) i wish every protestant ( who is in their sense an heretick , &c. ) would be pleas'd to read that oath , and then judge what he is to expect from any of these men , unless he knows they are such as will be perjur'd for his sake . it was surely not without cause , that cardinal bellarmine call'd the doctrine of the pope's authority over all christians , caput fidei , the head of the catholick faith. i have shewn that it is so in their sense of the word catholick . a doctrine that is the only fundamental of popery ; the foundation whereof was first laid in the papal authority , and the whole building of popery in other points , has been raised in favour to it . a doctrine that has since been secured and confirmed by canons of councils , and by the oaths of all their clergy . a doctrine to which the leaders and guides of their church , are sworn to sacrifice all that 's dear to them : and which way the guides go , there 's no fear but the laity will follow them with that blind obedience , which is peculiar to them in the roman church . and therefore whatsoever notion we have of popery in other things , the pope himself is not so fond of them , but that to gain the point of authority , he can either connive , or abate , or part with them wholly , if he pleases : though no doubt he never does it , but insidiously , as well knowing , that whatsoever concession he makes for the establishing of his authority , he may afterwards annul , and will do it when soever he pleaseth . but that the owning his authority , is the thing which makes a catholick in his sense , and that only , it appears by sundry instances abroad ; but none more memorable then those which we have had here in england . where king henry viii . having cast off his obedience to the pope , was therefore judged a heretick ; and underwent the worst that rome could have done to him , if he had rejected all their errours together ; and yet he asserted all the rest , and imposed them with the utmost severity . he was a through-papist in all points , but only that of obedience ; in comparison whereof , all the rest are but talk . that is the business , as we are taught by this example . and we are not a little confirm'd by the proceeding on the other hand , with his daughter elizabeth ; who being as much a protestant as any is , or can be at this day ; and having so settled religion in her kingdom , that it had scarce been in her power to have altered it , how and when she pleased ; yet if she could but have been brought to acknowledge the popes authority , to which she was courted by all possible ways , how gladly would his holiness have received her ? and abated for lesser things , that is , for all things else ; if it be true , that the pope would have allowed her the english liturgy that then was , and the communion-service , as it was generally reported he would : and we have the more cause to believe it , because we hear of the like offers prepared for us , in order to perswade the restoring of popery in our days . i conceive it is sufficiently proved , that the chief thing in popery , is the doctrine which asserts the popes authority over all christians . i shall adde , that it is the worst of all the evils which popery contains , the most hurtful and mischievous both to church and state ; which being proved to my hand in sundry learned discourses within these few years , i shall not need to say much on this head . yet i cannot but mind the reader of that which is most notorious , and which every one knoweth , that hath read over almost any history of these last eight hundred years . for about so long since it was , that the church received the greatest wound that ever was given it , a breach not to be repaired , a schism that reacheth throughout the whole universe . so long a time the western church , that is , the western part of europe , hath been a church by it self ; having broke off all communion with all other churches in the world , that is , with all the asian and african churches , and all those in the east and north parts of europe . instead of that love and peace which christ left as his legacy among christians , there hath been for so many ages nothing else but banning and cursing between them . as the pope yearly curses all those christians that are not of his communion ; so he and his are yearly curst by the four ancient patriarchs of constantinople , alexandria , antioch and ierusalem ; and by all the christian churches depending on them , except those few whom he hath conquer'd , or bought , or otherwise gain'd by his missionaries . the original cause of this breach , was nothing else but the popes usurpation , which those churches were not able to bear . it was the same cause , that many ages after , divided this western part of europe within it self . for our church was thrown out of the roman communion , many years before any thing else was reformed in it ; when there was no other difference between us , but only this , that we had cast off the popes usurpation . this breach of christian-unity , were of it self a great mischief to the church , though nothing else came of it but hatred and unchristian censures , in which perhaps , both sides might be to blame , but yet they might live and grow wiser , and come at last to understand one another . and this would possibly ensue upon any other difference of opinion . but this grand point of popery is such , as sets men in no ordinary heat ; it makes them breath not only censures , but death against their adversaries ; it arms out all the wealth , power and policy of them that hold it , to reduce or destroy all them that oppose it . not to rip up ancient stories , we have a sad instance this in the greek church , which refusing to submit to the pope , was betray'd by him to the turk ; under whom it hath groaned these two hundred years . in all which time of bondage and misery , which that poor church hath endured , what relief hath she had from the interest or wealth of the papacy ? i cannot say , but there have been , and are daily great returns thither of money from rome ; but all the use of them , is to hire her children against her for bread ; or to bribe the turks bassa's to do her all the hurt that is possible . we have the less cause to take it ill , if we find the popes agents busie among us , and if we feel the woful effects of their diligence , in our intestine divisions , and in the growth of atheism , which we cannot but be sadly sensible , are both much increased since the late toleration . in these and the like practises , they plainly declare , that rather then not bring in popery , they would drive out christianity before them ; and not leave the name of christ to the people , that will not receive the pope as his vicar . how those churches where he is so received and bears rule , as he would do among us , are blessed in it , we may partly guess by the means that he employs to get us under him . for it is seldom known , that they who are so greedy of power , use it well when they have it . but not to go by guess , when we have a map before us : we may see the condition of his subjects describ'd by some of themselves , that writ in those times when men durst write of such things ; when there was no inquisition for them , nor no index expurgatorius for their writings . i believe , a more cruel bondage , a more miserable thraldom and yoke then they describe never was among the barbarous nations . i believe also the inquisition , where it is introduc'd , hath not made their condition easier since . and that it is not introduc'd in some countreys , as namely , in france and flanders , they may thank the poor protestants for it : where such are , the pope will have a care not to make too much noise , for fear of frighting away the birds that he would take . and yet in france , where there is no inquisition , he found other ways not long since , to make the iansenists feel the weight of his hand , and that severely ; for no other reason , but because in certain school-points , they presum'd to oppose another party that were more firm to his interests . if this be his way of keeping unity , for which they so much cry up his government ( though men do not speak so well of the russian , which keeps unity better : ) i see no reason why we should not be content , and endure our dissentions ; or rather find some other way to compose them , than by putting our necks into a yoke , which being once fastned , it will be too late for us to complain afterward . we must either draw as he would have us , or else go to the shambles . for the temporal state , how it hath been turmoild with this papal usurpation , would ask a large book to describe , as the matter deserves . i shall only say this , that ever since it began , it hath hung like a comet , over kingdoms and nations , and shed forth direful influences on all that have been any way obnoxious to it . but it came not to its height , till pope hildebrand's days , whom their heavenly muster-roll * calleth st. gregory vii . a saint , no doubt , worthy of red letters ; for he caused the shedding of more christian blood than mahomet himself ; and as mahomet did , he taught his sect to do the same , and merit heaven by it . his dictates are commonly known , being publish'd , both in his books , and in the councils . i appeal to any one that hath read them , whether antichrist at his coming ( if he be yet to come ) can * speak greater things . sure i am , nothing can be more contrary to the humble and meek spirit of christ. among these , there is one doctrine briefly expressed , but more amply declared in his bulls , and in his actions pursuant to them . it is concerning a power that he assumes to himself to depose kings , and to dispose of their kingdoms . which arrogant claim ( such as none but the devil * ever made before him ) hath ever since been continued by his successors ; and yet is , as often as they see occasion , both declared and manifested by the like bulls and actions . the woful effects of it throughout this western part of europe , are notoriously known to all that read history ; having torn the bowels of this part of christendom like an earthquake , for these last six hundred years , having shaken the foundations of all empires , kingdoms and states , involving all of them , at one time or other , in bloody and cruel wars , accursed and unnatural rebellions , and all other consequent calamities . in germany particularly , where it first began to operate : the two next emperours were fain to fight no less than sixty field-battels to keep their crowns upon their heads . in france it hath wrought proportionably . other countreys have suffered their share . but none more than england in king iohn's miserable days . and that had been forgotten in 88. if the design had taken , which god only could , and did defeat ; when otherwise this doctrine , in all probability , had destroyed the english kingdom and nation , we had been gone , and our name had scarce remained upon the face of the earth . the sad experience of the manifold mischiefs and dangers , both to church and state , from this pretended authority , taught our fore-fathers at sundry times , to provide against it by laws , with such penalties annex'd to them , as they found needful , to prevent the like mischiefs and dangers for the future . it appears , that the ancientest laws of this kind , were made by them that lived and died in the roman communion : i mean , the laws of provisors and praemunire , enacted some hundreds of years since by roman catholick kings and their parliaments ; who could have no design against any other of those things we call popery ; for they held the same erronious opinions which our now-papists do , though they held them not as articles of faith. but they endeavoured by those laws , to secure themselves against the daily encroachment of the pope , and his faction in the roman church . when those banks were found insufficient to restrain the growing torrent within its bounds , they found it needful to stop the channel , to exclude the papacy it self , and turn it out of the kingdom . this was done by king henry viii , upon such a provocation , as perhaps would have moved a much gentler prince to do the same . for he was made to dance attendance upon the court of rome five or six years , for sentence in a cause , which he commenced not of himself , but by advice of the popes legat , and his confessor : a cause which the pope himself at first had encouraged ; in which he had the judgment of the whole church of england , and divers foreign universities of his side . his exclusion of the papal authority was by acts both of parliament , and of convocation , almost no man dissenting . they both form'd the oath of supremacy , and took it themselves , and joyn'd with him in imposing it , in direct opposition to this grand point . and yet this king himself , and all the members of those bodies , were firm to all things else that we call popery . it was otherwise in the time of queen elizabeth , of blessed memory ; who , at the entrance of her reign , not only repair'd her father's fence against the papal authority , but also purged the church of all those errours and corruptions , which are yet retain'd and own'd by all them of the roman communion . and yet she laid no penalty on any of them , but the loss of their ecclesiastical preferments , and the payment of twelve pence for every sunday that they were absent from church . this is all that they suffer'd for many years , till the pope took upon him to turn her out of her kingdom . when he had publish'd his bull to that purpose , and sent it hither among her subjects , and some of them had taken arms , and tried all ways to put that bull in execution ; then she enacted a law , to forbid any of her subjects , under pain of premunire , to bring bulls , or any other such trumpery from rome , and made it treason for any of them to be reconciled ( as they call it ) to the roman church . yet for six years more , though some were taken in the offence , none suffer'd the penalty of that law. when the pope proceeded further in hostility against her , to give away her crown , to invade her dominions , and to practise against her life ; when she found , that under pretence of religion , he drew over many of her subjects , and train'd them up as his spiritual janizaries , in houses founded for that purpose ; when she found , that at their return , they fully answered the ends of their education , and rather listed souldiers against her , than made proselytes to their religion ; then she executed those former laws , and made more from time to time , as they gave her occasion . in which laws , though she found it necessary to forbid sundry acts which were purely religious , and to make it penal to such as were taken at them , because she had no other way to find out them that were dangerous to the state ; yet she made it sufficiently appear , that the design of such laws was only against dangerous persons , by the great care she took to turn the edge of them from those that were otherwise . she gave private instructions to her judges , that before any was to suffer by the sanguinary laws , they should examine him how he stood affected to the state ; whether he owned hildebrands doctrine ; whether he approved the popes sentence ; whether he would side with him against her majesty . if they found any one , in those circumstances of a prisoner dead in law , so desperately bold , that he durst own a foreign power , in defiance of her that had his life at her mercy ; she would not have her judges spare him , that she might be very sure , would not have spared her nor her kingdom . otherwise , if they stood right as to the civil authority , it was her will that none should suffer death . and though they were such of the clergy , whom she knew to be the popes disciples and pensioners , and therefore thought it not safe to trust them in her kingdom ; yet if they gave her a fair answer , she sent them out of it quietly . and thus she dismist * some of them , that proved afterward as errant traytors as any whom she put to death . but for many other of their clergy , and especially those who were priests in queen mary's days , knowing them to be of peaceable principles , she suffered them to live peaceably in her kingdom . of the laity likewise , she put none to death , that would disown the popes temporal power . she took only a pecuniary mulct , with which she thought fit to repair her self for the charge she was put to in defending her self against the head of their communion . when that charge was apprehended to be over ; namely , at king iames his coming to the crown , they were discharged even of those pecuniary penalties . the king knew of no sentence that the pope had issued forth against himself ; and finding no trouble from those of his communion , he was willing to give none . nor did he , till he had tried them ▪ none suffer'd among them in any kind ; none had cause to be in fear of any suffering ; no distinction was made between them and other subjects . but this calm was soon interrupted , by the breaking out of a conspiracy , which yet seemed only to waken the vigilance of the state. for no great matter was done upon it , till another broke forth , that of the powder-treason , which out-went all former examples . and then ( when it was almost too late ) he understood by searching into this conspiracy , that though the pope had not deprived him by name of the kingdom , yet he had barred his right to it by a sufficient description ; having sent out two breves before the queens death , in which he commanded all his catholicks , not to suffer any protestant , how near soever in blood , to succeed her in the kingdom . this papal precept it was , to which the authors themselves ascribed their gunpowder-treason . and that the king might not always be in the like danger , he saw no way but to punish them that heeded such precepts . other papists he excused , and made himself , as it were , their compurgator , declaring to the world , that he believ'd they were innocent and peaceable . only they were not to be excused for keeping ill company : for they joyned in all religious acts with those of hildebrand's sect ; therefore they ought not to think much if their purses paid for it . but otherwise the king did what lay in him to distinguish them . and therefore he provided the oath of alleigance , by the taking or refusing whereof , he might be able to know the one from the other . that oath was made at first in such terms , as might perhaps have raised scruple in those that held the papacy , to be of divine right , though not in temporals , but only in spiritual things . though most of that communion held otherwise in france , and few held so in england , in king henry viii's days . yet lest that might stick with any innocent person ; the king , that desired to hurt none that might be spared , and well knowing all their principles , for he had studied their authors ; therefore took upon him so to moderate the oath , that it could not pinch the conscience of any roman catholick that was not first infected with hildebrand's principles . and they were generally so well satisfied with the oath in those terms , in which he had conceived it , that it was forthwith taken by the superior of the secular clergy , and by many other , both of the clergy and laity . few stuck at it , but those of hildebrand's sect ; whom the king had a mind to single out of the herd , and to rid the land of them , that he might live quietly with the other roman catholicks . but this pleased not at rome , where only those are the darlings . and it concerned the pope , to assert his own power in temporals ; which being something the younger , he is more fond of than that in spirituals ; and yet the elder being the more popular , he wilfully mistook , and perswaded the people ( as if he had believed himself ) that the oath was against his power in spirituals . but he mistook not in forbidding the oath of allegiance to be taken by any catholick , upon any terms whatsoever . his prohibition was under pain of his curse ; both which were confirm'd by one or more popes since . and yet many of their church took that oath , and some of them defended it in writing ; and 't is taken and defended in like manner to this day . by many others it is , and hath been refused : whether as being contrary to the principles of their sect , or whether in reverence to the popes prohibition ; and possibly some may have refused to take the oath , upon some scruple which they have conceived against the wording of it . but whatsoever the cause of their refusal may be , the state hath no way left to distinguish ; and therefore being assured of the lawfulness of the oath in these terms , and being aware of the wicked design with which it is forbidden , hath just cause to secure it self by their peril . it hath surely no cause to look on them as friends , that prefer their own scruples to its safety ; much less , that break its just commands , to serve or to please its open enemy . and for this cause , that wise and gracious prince suffered some of their clergy that were obnoxious otherwise , to fall under the edge of the law. but never in his nor his sons days , did any one of that communion , suffer death for any crime against the state , that would clear himself of it by taking the oath of allegiance . from what i have said , it sufficiently appears , that the asserting an undue authority in the pope or bishop of rome , is properly to be called popery ; 't is the chief thing , and the only thing in the popes esteem ; 't is most hurtful and dangerous , and the worst thing in the construction of the law. from whence i shall infer , that among roman catholicks , some are properly papists , and some are improperly called so . and however they are both of one communion , and meet together in the same offices of worship , and therefore cannot easily be distinguished ; ( unless they please to distinguish themselves ) yet there is a great difference between them : as great a difference in relation to the state , as there is between wens and useful members in the body . they that wholly deny the popes supremacy , cannot properly be called papists , but vnreformed catholicks ; as men generally were here in england , in the later part of king henry viii's days . and they , as i believe , were the first that used the word papists , to denote the assertors of that outed supremacy . nor can they properly be called so in france , or other countreys , who deny the pope to have any authority over them by divine right ; but grant it only by such canons and laws , as being made upon good considerations , may on better , be abrogated and repealed . i know there are some of this mind in england , and do believe there would appear to be many , if they found sufficient cause to declare it . * now though such men believe the same erroneous tenets , and use the same superstitious and idolatrous rites that papists do ; namely , such as the pope himself has made the terms of his communion , and therefore they are properly in communion with him ; yet those tenets and rites are not properly popery . though they are bad enough otherwise , yet if they keep them to themselves , they are not hurtful to humane society : as being consistent with the safety of the kingdom , and with obedience to government , and with justice of contracts , and love of neighbours ; with all which , at least collectively taken , popery in the proper notion of it is inconsistent ; and generally held so , not only by all other christians , but by a very great and considerable part of the roman catholicks themselves . they are properly papists , that hold the pope as vicar of christ , by divine right , to have a power and authority over all christians . and yet if they give him this power in spirituals only , and not also in temporals , they are but half-papists : and so they will find the pope accounts them , if they have occasion to make use of him . they only are thorough-papists , that acknowledge his authority in both . first , directly in spiritual things ; and then in temporals also , whether directly , or whether indirectly , in order to spirituals , it matters not . let him have the power , and he will trust himself with the use of it . now this thorough-papist , being a man after the popes own heart , i shall from him take the perfect measures of popery . he is one that asserts and maintains , or at least practically submits to the popes pretended power and usurpation ; over all kings and people in their temporals ; and over all bishops and churches in their spirituals ; and in all things , over all persons on earth , not only separately , but collectively , in their parliaments or councils ; and consequently over all their canons , laws and definitions . in few words , that owns him to be the infallible oracle , and universal vicar of god ; a kind of god upon earth , who has no limits to his commission , or to the execution of it , but his own will and pleasure . this most excellent systeme it is , that only passes at rome for the catholick doctrine . this is authorized by the pope , this is taught in his own church at rome , and elsewhere by his stipendiaries or other dependants . and this is properly popish , for it belongs not to any other christians of whatsoever church , sect or denomination : nor is it owned by the far greater number of them that are or call themselves roman catholicks . i have given my own private opinion , as well of the true , as of the false notion of popery ; and have intimated withal ( though but occasionally ) what my opinion is , as well of the great concernment of the christian world , if not of all mankind , to suppress popery , truly such ; as of the little occasion there is , for any great severity to be used against that for name-sake , which in truth is not popery , nor has any essential or necessary conjunction with it . now to enter upon the main design of this paper ; which , according to the title , is a consideration or search for the true way of suppressing of popery , i declare my design to be against popery in its proper notion . and whereas i have shewn a lower degree of it to consist in owning the popes power in spirituals only ; by suppressing of this , i intend , at least , such a restraint upon it , as may suffice to keep it from being hurtful or troublesom . for the other degree , which cannot but be hurtful wheresoever it is in being : i declare my design to be no less , than the extinguishing of it , at least out of england , and , if it were possible , from the face of the earth . of this matter to deliver my thoughts with all freedom , i confess it seems to me , that undistinguishing severity , whether of laws , or of the execution of them , against all roman catholicks in general , cannot be the true way to suppress popery ; much less to rid it out of this kingdom , or any other of his majesties dominions . the general motives which induce me to think so , are these three : 1. that such a course in all likelihood , would not prove effectual . 2. that if it should prove effectual , yet it would be very far from seeming just or equitable . 3. it would be against the interest of england in diverscontingencies . 1. that it would be ineffectual , i am persuaded by the well-known experience of above a hundred years , that is , of what hath pass'd in this kingdom ever since the reformation . for notwithstanding all the penal laws that have been made , and the execution of them , which was severe enough at some times ; we see that still there have been roman catholicks ever since ; and they were never so much lessen'd by their sufferings , as by the court of wards , which took off many of the wealthiest families . but that which made them bear up against sufferings was this , as i humbly conceive , that by divers of our laws , or by the interpreters and executors of them ( especially of those laws that had pecuniary penalties ) they saw no distinction made between loyal and disloyal ; between peaceable and turbulent principles ; between matters simply of religion , and those which threatned the state. the same cause is like to have the same effect still . and therefore i think we have just occasion to fear , that if all men of that communion are still equally liable to the same punishments in any kind , and accordingly treated ; it will be thought by themselves , if not by others also , that their suffering is for some articles of catholick religion , and not for any principles either of treason , or other papal superstition ( which principles ▪ very many of them do as much , as any protestant , with all their hearts abhor , and are ready to abjure . ) and while they think so , it will undoubtedly cause ( at least a considerable number of them ) to stand the utmost extremities ; and thereby the pope will peradventure gain more proselytes to his communion , and more strength to his side , than he will lose from it . besides , the number of their priests at home , and of their seminaries abroad , would not lessen , but increase , by such undistinguishing severity . for divers of those sufferers , being streightned with want , would send their children beyond sea , to get them off of their hands , to have them bred without charge , and put into a way of living . and they are so brought up , and so principled , in their foreign colledges , that let the laws in england be never so severe , they will return hither , and not stick to venture their lives in the service . seminaries also would increase . for they are so addicted to their religion beyond sea , that , let a preacher in a good town sollicite the charity of people towards the maintenance of such as shall expose their lives to propagate their religion , and there will quickly be a new foundation erected for that purpose . the colledge in sivil was maintain'd by alms , and i think that at valledolid likewise , and yet scholars lived no where better . these two colledges , when the times were most severe to roman catholicks , sent every year many priests into england ; and now in many years send none : but would undoubtedly grow numerous again , if the fame of our severity here should quicken the peoples charity in those parts , which hath been slackned very much of late years . again , neigbouring princes , who shall see men persecuted for the same perswasions which they profess themselves , will interpose in their behalf ; both of their own accord in some measure , and much more at the popes sollicitation ; who will be sure to engage all the credit he has with them , on such an occasion : and the interest of all neighbour states are so interwoven , that at one time or other it will be found inconvenient not to gratifie them in such a request . there will oftentimes happen another kind of obstruction , even at home , from english protestants themselves . for i think it ought to be considered , that many roman catholicks , however abused in their judgments about some matters of divine belief or worship , are esteemed by their protestant neighbours honest , well-meaning men , such as they cannot find in their hearts to use hardly , without great and evident cause . others have relations , or friends , or dependants , tied by several interests to them . and even strangers to the persons who are to suffer the penalties of the laws , will think it hard to inflict them on men that are no otherwise liable , than merely for such religious tenets and rites , as have been for many ages warranted by the laws , and held and practised by all christian people amongst us . so that , from one or other of these causes i have mentioned , it will prove a very difficult matter to have the laws executed on roman catholicks , without discrimination ; that is , without separating those who are so qualifi'd for pity , from those who deserve none , in the judgment of any protestant , nay of any true englishman whatsoever . for no man that loveth the peace of his country , can think fit to spare them , who are so fond of a foreign government , that rather than not be under it , they will not spare to involve their country in blood and misery . other men of that principle , have done as bad in former times . and we have cause to be jealous of all men of that religion , that they are of the same principles , and will do the same things ; unless they will secure us by some act , which they may lawfully do , being required to it . now it is evident , we have too many such among us , who are thorough-papists , and ministers of that foreign government ; and many others , who will not secure us by doing any such act , that the state shall require , against the interest of that foreign government . therefore the state hath just cause to secure it self against them , by such laws , as being executed , it shall not be in their power to do us hurt . but when those laws are made without any distinction , they herd themselves with others of their communion ; and being hunted together , they have some little trouble perhaps , which they laugh at , for they know it will come to nothing . after a while , good nature works in the protestants ; every man that should execute the laws , knoweth some or other that deserve favour , and for their sakes he will punish none . so the prosecution at first grows cold , and at last ceases ; till some fresh apprehension of danger awakens us , and then there will be a little more stir , to no purpose , as we have seen more then once in our days . but lastly , if the laws are executed to the full , i speak of laws made without discrimination , whatsoever severity shall be used in pursuance of them , will chiefly light on the best and most innocent persons ; on them that are truly english , and have nothing to do with rome , save that they live within her communion . for the thorough-paced papist will shift better than the other can do . the jesuites can equivocate , and teach their scholars to do it . they can sail with every wind , and rather than lose their port , they can do all that protestants do . and if they have no dispensation before hand , they can have a pardon for it afterward : for they know where those things are to be had , which any honest man , though of that religion , abhors either to ask or need . and if a jesuite should have so over-slept himself , that he is taken napping with other catholicks ; he is sure to have friends to bring him off . if none in england can do it , he has them abroad to help . if he be put to fly his country , he knows whither to go . if he step short , and fall into a prison ; there , at least , he is sure not to want either relief or means for his deliverance . while the man of loyal principles , if he fall into any of those circumstances , is stuck , and knows not which way to look for help . for from whence should he have it ? at home he has no friend that dares know him ; abroad he has no manner of interest . for all there depend upon the pope ; who is so far from concerning himself for any , whom he knows to be no papists , that he does not own them for catholicks . and especially if any such be men of parts , whom he hears to be in prison , or the like , he only wishes them hanged out of the way , that he may have the rest the more intirely at his devotion . much more might be said on this head , but what i have said may suffice . and therefore to insist no longer on that question , whether undistinguishing severity would be effectual or no ? i come now to shew , that if it should prove effectual , yet it would be very far from seeming just or equitable to indifferent men . and of this i am strongly assured , first , by all the judgment i can make of the intention of our laws ; secondly , by arguments from the rule of right reason , and the ancient practise of christianity . i begin with the former , and observe , that although the severity of our penal statutes , according to the bare letter of them , generally not distinguishing between papists and roman catholicks , falls indifferently on both ; yet , by the wording of them in several places , and by other circumstances , it appears , that they were intended against the abettors of undue authority in the pope , and against no other . for what appears in the wording of the statutes , i shall instance only two ; viz. 23 eliz. and 3 iacobi : whereof the former , namely , that of queen elizabeth , expresses the crime to be punished by the statute , in these terms , an intent to withdraw subjects from their natural obedience . the other , namely , that of king iames , which was very severe , as it ought to be on so great an occasion , mentions this as the crime to be punished by it : the withdrawing subjects from their natural obedience , and moving them to promise obedience to the pretended authority of the see of rome . that the sanguinary laws were intended against popery in this sense , and no other , it may further appear by the account i have given before ; where i briefly set forth on what occasions they were made , and in what manner they were executed . it is evident , that none ever suffer'd death as a papist , who could be brought to take the oath of supremacy or allegiance . now it is certain , that those oaths were primarily designed to be a suffient test to distinguish papists from others . and yet in either of them , there is no mention made of any doctrines , but only those which concern government ; that is , the external government both of church and state. it is indeed objected by papists against the oath of supremacy , and it sticks with some of those roman catholicks who are not papists , that by the oath of supremacy , the king is made a spiritual head of the church . but he that reads the oath , will find no such thing in it ; and it is expresly declar'd by the church of england in her articles , that she ascribes to the king no other jurisdiction over the church , than what is meerly external ; even the same that was exercised by the kings of iudah , and the christian emperours , over the church in their kingdoms and empires . to this i may add , the constant profession and answer of all protestant writers . whensoever any complaint has been made of the severity used to roman catholicks , it has been always said , that they suffered not for religion , but treason . and this is a very plain and satisfactory answer , while those only suffer who do those things , or hold those tenets which involve treason in them . but if they who do no such thing , and who renounce all such tenets , are yet made to suffer in like manner ; though they suffer for that which the law declares to be treason , it will bear some dispute , whether law-makers may not miscall things . however , it shews the general sense of the church and state of england ; i mean , for what concerns the design or intention of those penal laws . and here by the way it may be observed how very different our dealing with the roman-catholicks is from their dealing with protestants in q. mary's days . that then all profest protestants were handled severely , and that many of them were put to death , i think none will deny . but to avoid the odium of this , some of that communion in our age would persuade us that their suffering was not upon the account of religion . and , to colour this evasion , they endeavour to show that cranmer , and two or three more , had deserved death for treason ; which is more than they are able to prove . but admit this were true , that these men had deserved it ; yet they did not suffer death for treason , but religion , as they would have it believed that made them dye . for they declared this throughout the whole course of their criminal proceedings . and it concerned them so to do . for , otherwise , by the laws then in force , they had murthered as many as they burnt ; there being no law to burn men for treason , but for heresie . and so far they were from using any moderation , that they rather extended the letter of the law : by inflicting it on many poor creatures , who had nothing to provoke any jealousie against them ; but enough to move pity , if there had been any , in their adversaries . it has been the glory of our church , that we have not been like them in this : nor can be , without altering the design of them that made all our laws against popery . the intention of our laws appearing so manifestly , as i conceive , against papists only , and not against any other roman catholicks ; it seems not reasonable that any other butpapists should suffer by the letter of those laws . for it is a maxim , that not the bare letter of any one or more clause or clauses , but the intention of the whole law is the life and soul of it . i mean , it is that which gives signification to words , & w ch ought ( where itis evident ) to interpret thelaw . it is also a maxim , that all penal laws should be interpreted favourably ; and therefore more should not be made criminals , nor should any criminal suffer more by any law , than was meant by the legislator . now 't is commonly said , there are very many romancatholicks ( i hope the far greater number of them in england ) who maintain no principles or opinions , which destroy the fundamentals of government , or disturb the peace of the kingdom ; nor hold any of those opinions which are essential to popery , namely , which assert any undue authority in the pope , or ( as it is exprest in the statute ) which withdrawsubjects from their naturalobedience , or move them to promise obedience to the pretended authority of thesee of rome . there are many of that communion , who profess that they hate & detest all such doctrines . and therefore to indifferent judges , how can it but seem very hard to extend the severity of theletter of our penal laws , against the legislators intention , to all roman catholicks universally and indistinctly , without any exception in favour of those many that hold no such opinions , and that are in all respects truly loyal and peaceable ? surely the punishment cannot seem just or equitable , which has not thelaw for it ; and that has not thelaw for it , which is against the intention of the legislator . next i say , with submission , that granting the intention of the statute-laws of our land , and of the legislators by whom they were made , to have been against all roman catholicks indistinctly , and not only against the mere papalins ; yet according to the eternal law of reason , and ancient practice of christianity , it may seem in such case , than an undistinguishing execution of the laws , would neither be just nor equitable . for first , it seems very unreasonable , to go about to force men to change their judgments in any thing , that hurts none but themselves , and especially in so weighty a matter as is that of religion . it is confess'd , that the religion of roman catholicks , differs very much from that which is established by law ; and i am much to blame , if i know not it is erroneous in those points in which it differs . for which reason , i doubt not , they ought to be restrain'd from publick exercise of it , and ( as far as it is possible ) from hurting others by the propagation of their errours . i also grant , that by some kind of punishment , less than death or ruine , men that err , may and ought to be awaken'd and stirr'd up to seek better information , and to attend to the means of it , that they may be reclaim'd from their errours . i also grant , that it belongs to the legislative power to define , how far , and by what means all this should be done ; without which , i see no way to preserve established truth , or to suppress heresie in any kingdom . but all the punishment that is necessary for this purpose , may be inflicted without any force upon conscience ; as i shall have occasion to shew toward the end of this paper . much less is that any force upon conscence , when men are punish'd for treason , or for treasonable principles . for those principles are treason in bullion , and will be coyn'd out , whensoever the pope pleases to set the mint going ; and that he will do , whensover he thinks it time to pay off any king that does not please him . but i cannot say so , when men that have no such principles , are punish'd as if they had ; and are either put to death , or made unable to live , unless they will part with those things in their religion which are purely and simply erroneous , and which have no ill influence upon the state any otherwise than as it is inconvenient to have different religions in being together in the kingdom . this severity is truly a force upon conscience . and 't is very unreasonable besides , that the simply erroneous should be made to feel the weight of that punishment , than which no greater could be inflicted by law , if their errours were heightned and envenom'd with all the malignity of that which we call properly popery . 't is also against the ancient practice of christianity . for the christians , when they came to have power in their hands , did not punish either pagans or jews , with either sanguinary or mulctative laws ; nor ( for ought that appears ) thought it reasonable for them so to do . i confess they did after a while punish donatists with pecuniary penalties , and kept both them and all the rest under divers incapacities ; and the same reason they had for so doing , is enough to induce the church and state of england to deal as they do now with dissenters , and especially with roman catholicks , in keeping them under incapacitating laws . if it be objected , that those who were so favourably dealt with in those first christian times , did not communicate with any that were dangerous to the state , as those do who pretend to the like favour amongst us ; and that while they communicate with men of disloyal principles , it may be thought not unfit to involve them in the same punishment that is due to men of those principles : it will be answer'd , that they do not communicate with them in any disloyal doctrine or practice , and therefore they ought not to be joyn'd with them in the punishment of those doctrines or practices . god forbid , that innocents should be handled as nocents , for being of the same communion with them . we should think it very hard and unreasonable , that honest men and good protestants , who communicate in the church and worship of god with such as prove to be traytors or felons , must therefore partake with them in suffering for their misdeeds . if it be farther objected , that among the roman catholicks , there are many who are faln off from the church of england , and that such men , at least , deserve punishment for their apostacy , and much more the priests or others that wheedled them away : i cannot deny , that in this case we have a just provocation to severity . and we have an example before us in the roman church , which if we should follow , it would go hard with such persons . they which turn from them to us , find no mercy in those popish countries where the inquisition is setled , nor much favour in any other . but we are not bound to follow those examples . and therefore setting them aside , and considering things without provocation , i must needs say , that the simplicity of most of their converts , seems to me to deserve rather pity , than any hard punishment . they are generally such as understood not their own religion , before they suffer'd themselves to be fool'd out of it . otherwise , if they are learned and knowing men , who thus leave our communion , which i think rarely happens , and specially if they are converts to downright popery ; it cannot but argue , that such persons are vehemently lead by their affections , and therefore they may be justly suspected of ill design , and of forming to themselves some interest against the laws . and if that be true , it cannot be deny'd , that they deserve to suffer all that the laws have ordain'd for such persons . yet if men of knowledge and parts , though they have deserted our church , can content themselves to be strangers , and not enemies ; and will prove it , by declaring against all the popes usurpations , which will be a certain bar to their preferment , and therefore may be a good proof of their sincerity ; in this case , i do not see but we may live quietly with them , and perhaps the more safely by their means . what laws are now in force against them that shall be reconcil'd ; or that shall reconcile others , to the church of rome , were intended to keep men from being poyson'd with popery ; against which those laws were severe enough , and yet not more than there was cause . and yet according to the wording of those laws , he is equally to suffer the penalty of them , that draws others , or that is drawn himself , into the roman communion , though not into popery , as we have defin'd it . i do not know , that those penalties have been inflicted on any one offender these many years ; nor has it been considered , what the principles were , either of them that were seduced , or of them that seduced them ; and 't were hard , that the impunity of them who have directly transgress'd the intent of those laws , should be a snare to them that have only transgress'd the letter of them . therefore , i humbly conceive , that whatsoever retrospection is made , it ought to be with some kind of discrimination . and it were to be wish'd for the future , that the old laws may be put in ure against them that seduce others , or are seduced into popery ; and that some gentler laws may be made against them that shall enter into that communion , though they do acquit themselves of those dangerous principles . but how this may be done , i humbly leave to the wisdom of the state to consider . the third reason which i mention'd against an undistinguishing severity , was this , that it would be against the interest of the church and state of england . both those great interests are united together in the preservation of the monarchy . for monarchy is essential to the state , as is visible in the constitution of it . and for the church of england , as she is the best support of the monarchy , so she is supported by it , and must either fall with it , or be brought into a very low condition ; as we have seen by the experience of late years . now of all sorts and parties among us , that dissent from the church of england , there is none but has principles which seem to look ill upon monarchy ; nor is there any that has not explain'd the meaning of them by their practices , at one time or other within our memory . to specifie this in instances of all , would be needless ; for i know no sort of dissenters that go about to justifie themselves wholly in this matter , except only roman catholicks . among them , some late writers would bear us down , that they are , and have been always , faithful to the monarchy . it were better said by others of that church , than by some of them that have written this . but the truth is , they are a mixt communion , whereof the governing part of the clergy are thorough-papists ; and therefore neither they , nor any of their faction can be right friends to such a monarchy as we speak of , whatsoever they pretend . many of the inferior clergy , and of the laiety of that communion are no papists ; as i have shewn in this paper , and they have shewn it themselves , in adhering to monarchy against the pope himself . of both these sorts of roman catholicks , we have lately seen the tryal in ireland ; where for some years they agreed in nothing , but that some times they went to church together . their bishops , and the rest of the chief of their clergy , were indeed the pope's creatures and subjects . for they had sworn allegiance to him , and received a right from him , as well to the temporalties , as to the spiritualties of their titular preferments . what the pope's meaning was in preferring them , we may guess by what follow'd . for as soon as they saw an opportunity for it , they formed a rebellion in that kingdom against the king. and when the pope sent his nuncio to head it , they joyn'd with him , and drove the king's lieutenant out of the kingdom . which accursed rebellion of theirs , lost the king , not only that kingdom , but the other two kingdoms , and his life in the end . and yet they of that faction in ireland , are so far from acknowledging that they did any ill in all this , that within these ten years , the general-assembly * of the clergy of that nation , in plain terms , refus'd to ask his majesties pardon for any thing that had been done in the late war by any of the clergy of that kingdom . this was a sufficient demonstration of the prevalence of those popish principles among them , and of the ill influence they have upon monarchy . yet there was even then as plain a demonstration of better principles in others of that communion . for some there were , though much fewer in number , who kept their allegiance to the king throughout that whole rebellion , and fought for him against the pope himself , in the person of his nuncio ; and having one while got a great part of the laity to joyn with them , they prevail'd so far as to drive him out of the kingdom . but they , and all the rest that serv'd the king in that nation , were excommunicated for it by the nuncio and his clergy in ireland ; and that sentence being judicially ratified at rome , i am assured that many of them do continue under it to this day . in england it is to be observ'd in all our histories , that , even in popish times , there were those that stood up for the rights of the crown against the pope's usurpations ; and that they which did so , were the generality of the people of this nation . how else came those laws of provisors , &c. to pass in parliament , though the spiritual lords oppos'd them with all their might , and protested against them , as oft as such laws came before them ? how came king henry viii to pass his law against the papal supremacy ? which in effect contain'd no more than those former laws did : and yet the bishops at that time , not only voted for it , but set their hands to a book that was writ in defence of it ; and some of the most learned among them , writ besides on that subject as good discourses as were written in that age. and how came the whole kingdom to stand by him ( as they did , both before and after the dissolution of monasteries ) against the pope's bull of * excommunication and deprivation ? which bull , i conceive was that which first made the schism . though this breach was made up again by queen mary , who restor'd the pope's authority , to strengthen her own right to the crown , which otherwise had hung by the single thred of an act of parliament ; yet by what pass'd before , it sufficiently appears to have been the judgment of our forefathers in former ages , that popery is no part of the catholick doctrine . that it has more obtained since , and that the number of papists has increas'd among the english of that communion , i partly ascribe to the great offence which was taken at first here in england against the reformation . the horse is said to have first taken up man upon his back , to hunt down his enemy . and for the same end , i conceive , the roman catholicks suffer'd the pope to saddle them in queen mary's days . they could not have gratified him more , than by letting him ride and hunt together ; both which he loves dearly . soon after , the pope having by his council of trent , made articles of faith of their controverted opinions , it could not but oblige them to look kindly on all that he did for himself in that council . after which , 't is no wonder that queen elizabeth found the world so much alter'd since her father's time . i think 't is observable , that when he was curs'd and bann'd by the pope , as she afterwards was , yet he had not one attempt made against his life . some rebellions he had against him , but those not so much in the pope's quarrel , as in the common people's , who were enrag'd at him for dissolving the monasteries . but queen elizabeth , who had little to do of that kind , and who generally pleas'd the people otherwise , and was therefore not so liable to be shockt with rebellions ; yet for all that , when the pope mark'd her out for destruction , some or other of her subjects were continually driving practices to take away her life . i mention this as a great instance of the growth of popery among the people of that communion . and yet no doubt she knew those among them that were no papists ; or else she would not have made visits to them , as she did in the most dangerous times ; nor have protected their priests , without sufficient assurance of their loyalty . yet she had not that way of assurance which k. iames found out afterwards , and which the pope himself help'd to make the more satisfactory . for when ( as i have said ) upon occasion of the gunpowder treason , k. iames requir'd the oath of allegiance to be taken by all his subjects ; and pope paul v. requir'd all his subjects to refuse it : it was easie from thenceforward , among the roman catholicks , to know which were the pope's , and which were the king's subjects ; for each of them would do the will of their lord , and what they did they maintain'd on both sides . i think there needs no better defence for the rights of the crown against the pope and his faction , than has been made by one of their priests , namely , * preston , in his books for the oath of allegiance . now this being the only test appointed by law , and this being already taken by many roman catholicks , who profess themselves ready to take any other that the state shall prescribe , for the securing it self against popery ; i conceive that such persons being taken off by this means from all dependance of the pope , ought in reason to be accounted good subjects . for if their principles be such as they swear they are , as well their principles , as their oath , will make them firm to the monarchy . and nothing can be imagin'd to make them against it , or to loosen them from it , but the pope's dispensation , against which they secure us as the law directs them to do . for they both swear expresly , that they will not take any such dispensation , and that they believe the pope has no power to give it . i do not say , but while they continue in that communion , they are continually liable to be tempted and drawn from these principles : and i know no way the state has to help it , but by making them often renew their security ; as i shall humbly propose in due place . but while they keep to their principles ; which in relation to monarchy , are the same that the church of england holds ; though she ought to desire their conversion , and to seek it by all lawful means , yet i see not why she should desire to have them driven away , or disabled from assisting her in defence of the monarchy . now there is nothing more plain , than that this party of roman catholicks must be utterly disabled and destroy'd by an undistinguishing execution of the laws . for if they have no favour at home , they are sure to find worse abroad . there they must learn to hate their own country , by suffering for having loved it too well . when they have spent what they can carry over with them , they must want , and may perish ere they find relief . while their zealous antagonists , the true sons of the pope , are received with all kindness wheresoever they come ; and when they have weathered out the storm , they are sure to be sent back with full pockets , and fresh supplies , and such instructions as may fit the change of times . then we shall , if it should happen , which god forbid , see the fruit of an undistinguishing severity . we shall see the destruction of a considerable number of men , that were friends to the government , and that would have been useful at such a time . or we shall see them return with other principles , and become enemies to the government , which used them as enemies , and wholly joyn'd in affection to them that fed them in their exile . in few words , we shall see the popish faction ( truly so called ) return with more hope to do mischief , and with more power to do it , than ever they had before . they could never yet make all of their communion to joyn with them in any design against the government . but then undoubtedly they will , if there be not a sufficient number left of the other side to oppose them . they at rome are thought to understand their own interest well . and there is reason they should ; for it is the study of that place . and i suppose , 't is not in favour to the church or state of england , but for the interest of rome , that they are very well pleas'd with an undistinguishing execution of the penal laws in england against the roman catholicks ; and are so far from desiring to have it otherwise , that they hate and detest all distinction , and declare him their enemy that desires it . this might be proved by more instances than are proper for this place . but i shall give one or two that are sufficient . and first of former days : widdrington , * a priest of the roman communion , gives this following relation : that q. elizabeth having discovered , that she was minded to shew favour to as many roman catholick priests , as should give her assurance of their loyalty , and to exempt them from suffering the penalties of her laws ; some well-meaning men went to rome to carry the good news , as they thought it . but when they were come thither , they found themselves much mistaken . instead of thanks , they were reproach'd by the governing party , and branded with the name of schismaticks , spies , and rebels to the see apostolic . and moreover ( saith our author ) there was one of that party ( * f. f. ) compiled a treatise in italian , to advise his holiness , that it was not good nor profitable to the catholick cause , that any liberty or toleration should be granted by the state of england to catholicks . secondly , what their judgment is at present concerning this matter , i know not who can inform us better than the pope's nuncio's . he that now is , or lately was at brussels , falconieri , the internuncio of burgundy and the low-countries , i suppose has a power given him over our roman catholicks ; for his immediate predecessor airoldi had it , and came over hither in hope to establish his jurisdiction in england . this falconieri was inform'd , while the parliament were yet sitting , in march was twelve month , that divers roman catholick peers had taken the oath of allegiance ; which provoked him so far , that he lash'd out these words , it were better there were not a catholick left in england , than that they should take that oath to free themselves from persecution . this relation i had from one of that communion , whom i have very much reason to credit . and yet , if any one doubts of his testimony , he may see as much written by a nuncio himself , who was also this man's predecessor . i think his words go something beyond those of falconieri , unless they like the oath of allegiance better than the irish remonstrance ; which whosoever compares them , will judge they cannot well do , according to their principles . and yet of that remonstrance it was , that the former nuncio vecchii gave his judgment in these words , it may do more hurt and mischief to the church of god ( viz. to the popish faction in it ) than any persecution that ever was from the hereticks . i doubt not , the late pope's nuncio , that waged war in ireland against our late king , if he had lived to these times , would have been of the same mind . he would have endeavoured to keep his party together , and not let them be separated by a test. he would have told them , they were as good have ask'd pardon for what they had done , as promised to do so no more ; which promise in fewer words was the effect of that remonstrance . by these indications , we may guess at that which might otherwise have been a mystery to us , namely , why so many leading-men of that communion in england , who refuse to take the oath of allegiance , are so much against the framing of any other test. it might seem very strange , that they who are so loud , above all others , in crying out of persecution , are yet so extremely averse from doing that which is the only sure way to avoid it ; namely , from giving publick security to the state. but their meaning is plain . they would not have popery garbled out of their religion ; nor those principles forsworn , that may be useful when time serves . if 't were known who are the pope's , and who are the king's subjects , it were to be feared the pope's would be left single ; and that they themselves would be found to be of that number . i cannot blame them , that they had much rather keep themselves in the herd ; and therefore perswade all men of their church , rather to run the hazard of a general undistinguishing persecution , than to submit to such a test , as may enable the state to know its enemies . it is plain , that he whom they serve , may despair of arriving at his ends upon england , any otherwise than by one of these two ways ; viz. either by an undistinguishing execution of the laws against all roman catholicks in general ; or by an undistinguishing toleration to them all ; and for their sakes , to all other dissenters whatsoever . by the former way , popery , ( properly so called ) would be kept from appearing in the light , which it does not love . it would pass undiscovered , in the croud , among principles of religion . and the people , by little and little , would come to be perswaded , that they ought to suffer as much for their obedience to the pope , as for their belief in god. than which there is no one thing that our hildebrandists drive at with more zeal ; and no doubt the pope would buy it with all his heart , at the hazard of leaving not one roman catholick in england . though the hazard would not be so great to them , that should be his prime agents in this business . for they would be sure to keep themselves out of harms way . and all the danger should light on bigots , and such hot-headed men ; who , though living , they are worth nothing ; yet , when they dye , leave treasures to the church . for they must presently be cryed up for martyrs . and then , what can be said enough to the glory of the apostles that sent them forth , and of the apostolick see , and of christ's vicar that sits in it ? happy men , that are sure to have their bodies work miracles , wheresoever their souls be ! and blessed cause for which such men did not stick to sacrifice their lives ! if there happens a leading-man , a garnet to be taken among them , there is a loss indeed , for which perhaps the straw makes not a sufficient recompence . yet this loss falls on persons only , and not on the cause . the tenets , which do all the mischief , not only escape , but gain ground . if they were not de fide before , now they are , being seal'd with the blood of martyrs , and attested with miracles . and this faith is not like to want preachers worthy of it self . for there will be always men enough left of the worse sort : the most subtle and dangerous , will save themselves one way or other . they 'll be sure to get out of the way , till they see their own time to shew themselves ; and then they will appear the more venerable to the party , as being the brethren and successors of them that died for their religion . by the other way of undistinguishing toleration , they would have divers advantages , more than i shall mention in this place . for it is not my business here to write against toleration , but rather against an undistinguishing of laws . but that i may not seem by this means , to desire to perswade a toleration , which i take to be much worse than the other , i shall shew the danger of it in these following particulars : for first , they look upon toleration as a sure way to destroy the establish'd religion . and therefore in all countries where popery is establish'd , they are so far from admitting any toleration , that they look upon him that speaks for it as their enemy , and count none their sure friends , but them that set up the inquisition . by which also here in england , if england were theirs , they would make a short work with all those other dissenters , whom now they seem to look upon with compassion , and to plead against persecution , and wish liberty of conscience , for their sakes . they would not have the thorn be disturb'd , while it is in their enemies sides ; but if it were out , they would burn it , for fear it should be a thorn in their own . another use of toleration among us , would be to weaken the government ; as needs it must , if the strength of the government consists in the hearts of the subjects . a most unjust and wickedly manag'd jealousie of our late blessed king's inclination to popery , first lost him the hearts of his people . which jealousie being confirm'd , by his granting ( as it was said ) a toleration of popery in ireland , they grew wild upon it , and would never come at him more . or if they would , it was too late , when his enemies had gotten him in their hands . i think 't is visible now , that as well as all parties among us love liberty , there , is none of them wish it to roman catholicks ; unless it be with design to blow up the like jealousie again . god forbid there should be any such design now on foot . but if there be , they that drive it , are not altogether fools . they have reason to think , that if the government were away , they might be able to make their party good against the roman catholicks . nor can our papists be such fools , to imagine , that they alone can make head against the other dissenters . it is possible they may hope , that if it should come to that , the men of our church would joyn with them . but that wi●l never be , unless they get the government of their side . which they very ill deserve , if they ask a toleration , before they have converted , at least , half the kingdom . and this they would consider , if it were any part of their care to preserve the government of the nation . but there is but one government in the world , for which thorough-papists are concern'd . all the rest are to be brought under this ; and those that will not bend to it , must be broken . it matters not into what form they are reduced , whether of kingdom , or free-states , or common-wealth . much less are those of hildebrand's sect concern'd for this or that family . a cromwel would have serv'd their turn ( when time was ) as well as a stuart . for , i suppose they that courted him to be the restorer of the catholick religion , would not have dealt so coursly with him , as to turn him out for his pains . but that which makes their teeth ake against the present government , is , to see it united with the church of england . which church being likely enough to be destroy'd by a toleration , if the same means will embroyl the kingdom too , they will like it never the worse . the old fisherman whom they serve , fishes best in troubled waters . he never made such a draught here in england , as he did in the late times of confusion . and then also in ireland , he had almost a whole kingdom in his net ; though for want of strength , he could not draw it ashore . but in case a toleration should not have that most desirable effect , of blowing up a civil war , nor any other way weaken the government ( which to me seems impossible ; ) yet at least there would be hope , that it might some way strengthen the party . if they could but have the face , which they seldom want , and that colour withal , which this would give them , to say , that this liberty was granted in favour to popery , and that this favour was an earnest of more , and that now all would be theirs very speedily , no doubt many would believe them . and not a few by the power of this belief , would be drawn to joyn with them ; and to be the more welcome , would present them , as well with their loyalty as with their religion . it would also be a means to wear off the strangeness between them and the other sects . for , those who were content to enjoy toleration with them , though with design to try it out , who should be masters at last , when they had trod down the church of england between them ; yet would have some conversation with them the mean while . and i suppose , a cunning jesuite would be able now and then to convince a simple sectary . howsoever that might succeed ; they would be united together , in one common interest , though with different designs . they would both be concern'd to keep up the toleration . they would engage together against the enemies of it . and there insensibly grows a kindness between men that sail in the same ship together , though they are bound for different ports . but although this good effect may be procur'd by a general suspension , or rather a repeal of the penal laws ; yet if that cannot be had , the same will follow in some measure upon an undistinguishing execution of them . and therefore , if there be no remedy but that they must be executed , it is the interest of the popish faction , to have them felt by as many as is possible . perhaps it were for their turn to have them fear'd rather than felt . for the smart of the rod would cure many of their distempers , that are enrag'd by having it shaken over them . but either the threatning of the law , or a light execution of it , being extended to all , would suffice to do their business . and if that severity , which were a means to cure many , would exasperate all the rest , i conceive that would do it much better . for all other dissenters being brought under the lash as well as roman catholicks , no doubt would be as much dissatisfied with the government and laws . they would joyn with them in aspersing the state with injustice and cruelty . they would add to their noise , by crying out of persecution for conscience . and all men loving naturally to be pitied , they that study popular arts , can easily find how to take men by this handle , and to draw them nearer themselves , and to make a mischievous use of them . i know i do not teach them , by saying , that such accidents may arise , in which 't were very possible for the jesuites to make such a conjunction with some of our fanaticks , as might create no small trouble and danger to church and state. but if other dissenters are not yet angry enough with the government , or if they know the jesuits so well that they will not deal with them , or if they will give nothing for the priviledge of being eaten last ( for any of these things may very well happen ) then these gentlemen have none left to work upon but roman catholicks . and of them they have all reason to be secure , unless they are very loyally principled . the only way to work on such , is , by drawing them off from their principles . and that they may hope to do , when they find them uneasie , and out of humour . as it cannot be expected but they will be , if they are made to suffer the severity of the laws . they that have been faithful to the government , and know themselves to intend no other , and are ready to give any proof of it ; yet to see themselves ruin'd by the government , or to be kept in continual fear of it , must needs be discompos'd , and think themselves very hardly dealt with . then , if a jesuite step in , and endeavour to convince him , that all their suffering is for religion ; and not for treasonable principles ; if he instance in that loyal person himself , and bids him judge by his own experience , he cannot but feel himself suffer ; he knows himself free from disloyalty , therefore his suffering can be for nothing else but his religion : he must be a man of more than ordinary abstraction , that can discern the fallacy of this reasoning . and he that cannot find that , had need stop his ears , with a resolution to hear nothing against the government , or else the jesuite will be too hard for him . he had need be as resolute in his loyalty , as in his religion . for the proof being made , as well to his sense , as to his reason , it looks like an argument against transubstantiation . if the person so attack'd be a very iob in holding his integrity ; if no argument will move him , nor no other temptation draw him from it : yet he must yield to want , which can neither be hid nor resisted . there are many good men that live from hand to mouth , and that hardly enough , while they enjoy their estates . if any of these be deprived of so much as the law would take from him , he cannot live with that which he has left . and then if a pension be offer'd him out of the jesuites bank , or out of the pope's coffers , he will scarce know how to refuse it . necessity will make a generous man do that , which he would hate to think of in better circumstances . and having eaten their bread , he will find it a hard matter to keep himself disengag'd from their interests . much more , if he suffer himself once to be engag'd , he will find it impossible to untwist himself afterwards . and 't is next to impossible , for him that has been oblig'd by their benefits , and as it were , listed in service , and taken pay on the enemies side , to have any kindness left for his country , that drove him to all this . i know but one instance , that of david in gath , of a man that was put to all these streights , and yet not corrupted in his principles . i shew but one way of many , how men that are very good subjects , and desire nothing more than to continue so , may be spoil'd with hard usage , and made enemies against their inclinations . which , being added to those things said before on this head , may be more than enough to make good my third reason , against an undistinguishing execution of the laws on roman catholicks ; as being against the interest of the church and state of england . and this seems so evident to me , that i have no manner of doubt , that as the best news we could send to rome , would be of a general toleration of all religions and sects whatsoever ; so , next to that ( which i know would please them best ) the most welcome news would be , to assure them , that all the laws here in england against roman catholicks , were severely and indifferently put in execution . and i am as sure , that nothing would trouble them more , than to hear of such a discrimination or distinction of roman catholicks , as i come now to propound . for , now to speak on the affirmative side of the debate , this seems to be the only way for suppressing of popery , if the state will be pleas'd to distinguish btween papists and other roman catholicks : and so to shew favour to the one , upon security given of their loyalty ; as that the other , who will not give that security , may have no part of that favour , but be left to the severity of all those laws that have been , or shall be made against their principles and practices . my reasons are , 1. because this course being taken , would be effectual to the end above-mentioned . 2. it would be equitable in it self . 3. and it would be for the interest of the church and state of england . i shew'd before , that the undistinguishing way had not any of those three properties or qualities . now the way which i propound being contrary to it , must have all the three by the rule of contraries ; and i conceive i need no other proof . but to make the matter more plain , i shall resume these three reasons , and prove them severally in the order propos'd . 1. this course would be effectual . for it would take away the causes of popery . the only immediate causes , which have either propagated or preserved popery so long in this kingdom , notwithstanding all laws that have been made against it , as well anciently as of late times , are chiefly these two . on one side , the great boldness and business of the truly popish clergy , in asserting and crying up all papal pretences whatsoever . on the other side , the tameness of the other clergy of that communion , or whatsoever else their fault is , and has been , in not opposing those papal pretences . for the former of these , i think 't is very visible in all the iesuites that come among us , and in most of the other regular orders , and not a few of the seculars ; that their chief business amongst us , is to advance the pope's authority in all things , and to reduce all men under the obedience of it . 't is true , they have not yet seen their time to attempt this by open war. they have not set up the holy banner in england , and plac'd the pope's nuncio in the head of an army against the king ; as their brethren did in ireland , and do not repent of it . but neither will our popish clergy say , that those in ireland did ill in it . they have neither declared their dislike of that rebellion by any publick act : nor among all the books they have writ since the king's restauration , has any one of their writers writ so much as one line against it , that ever i could see or hear of . but their books abound with those principles out of which that rebellion was hatch'd . they are slily insinuated in those which are to be had at every stall . and there are those that pass from hand to hand , in which this treason is the main scope of their writing . by which we may guess what wholesome doctrine it is that they infuse upon occasion in private , when they are among their own people . what kind of preaching and catechising they use . what information of their penitents . what ghostly counsel they give ; and what loyal directions of conscience . and if we had nothing else to discover them to us , we may soon find what kind of spiritual offices they perform , by the fruit of them , in the perversness and obstinacy of so many of their laity , who choose to do or endure any thing , rather than take the oath of allegiance . i deny not , that there are other priests of that communion , who , as far as we can judge by their private discourse , seem to be rightly principled , and well inclined towards the civil government . there are those that seem to be heartily for the independency of the crown of england ; and that hold , that the external government of the church ought to be in the king , in such manner as the laws of the land do or shall prescribe ; and who are firmly perswaded , that the contrary positions of popery are as bad as they are declared to be in the oath of allegiance . and some of them have declared this very honestly and publickly in their writings , both heretofore and of late days . i think i should do them no service in naming them . for as things now are , it would only provoke and enable those of the former sort to do them mischief . which we see , they are prone enough to do , by their traducing them publickly , though priests of the same church ; and branding them with the characters of schism , heresie , apostacy , &c. and thereby setting the people of their communion against them . but whereas those honest men of that communion tell us , that there are many more of their principles among the secular clergy , and also among the regulars of inferior rank and condition : i cannot but say , that if they are not mistaken , there is a great fault among them on the other hand . those many good men , of whom they tell us , are much to blame , that they do not declare against the pope's usurpation ; but rather strengthen it by their sinful compliance and silence . either they do not think it so bad as they pretend ; or else what wretches are they to juggle with the consciences of their people ? how can they answer it to god , from whom they pretend to have these souls given them in charge , that they do not warn them of so dangerous a sin , that has slain its thousands and ten thousands in our streets ? why do they suffer so great a scandal to lye upon their church , and such a danger to hang over the civil state , while they that are the spiritual watchmen see it , and yet hold their peace ? nay , worse than so , the dog fawns upon the wolf. these honest men , if they may yet be so called , hold very good quarter and fellowship with those , whom they know to be zealots for popery . they make their court to them , of whom they cannot be ignorant that both their principles and their interest lead them to it ; that is in effect , they are so officious to stand by and hold the horses of them that are committing a robbery ; or worse employ'd , in doing all those evils above-mentioned . i cannot see how they can excuse this any otherwise , than by alledging , that all their compliance is for fear of being ruin'd , and imprison'd , and starv'd , as some of their brethren have been , for doing their duty ; and more are like to be , if some course be not taken to protect them against the rage of their implacable enemies . not to judge of the sufficiency of this excuse , i confess there is reason for what they say . for 't is visible what became of those church-men of their communion , who have given the highest test of their loyalty , who have scorn'd all those servile compliances , and who have declared against popery by their actions and writings . 't is the easier to observe this , because there have been so few of them , i think not above two or three in an age. they have been fain to stand the mark of a violent endless persecution , both from the court of rome , and from all its faction in england . and , however it came to pass , they did not find that countenance , which they might have expected from the state , in defence of whose rights they drew all that wrath upon themselves . we have a great example of this in preston , who having both taken the oath of allegiance himself , and maintain'd it against all the great champions of popery , was fain to take sanctuary in the clink , and glad to hide his head there for many years before he died . another learned man , dr. barnes , the famous author of romano-catholicus pacificus , had not leave to choose a prison to dye in . for he was spirited by the pope's emissaries , and carried away to rome , and thrown into the inquisition there . what became of him since , we shall know at the day of judgment . if these be their ways to maintain , and to propagate popery , we cannot be to seek for our way to suppress it . for it is manifest , that this cannot be more effectually done , than by such a discrimination as has been propounded . on the one hand it would be a means to preserve those few men of that communion among us , who have already declared against the popes vsurpations . and the same course that should be taken to keep them out of danger , would also be a means to free all other men of their principles , from the fear under which they have been kept so many years . whether at this present they have more or less cause to apprehend the popish faction , they will be the better able to judg , when they see what is done in monsieur luzance's case . for as there is no reason to doubt , that those gentlemen , if they find they may do what they please , will do no less to those of their own communion , that oppose their grand design , than they attempted on him that had deserted their communion : so , if the state shall think fit to check their audacious insolence in this case , by some exemplary punishment , though i doubt they will not forsake the land upon it , yet it is to be hoped , that they will upon some other act of state , to which this may be a very good introduction . sure enough , if the laws were duly executed on all those that will not give sufficient security to the state , we should soon be rid of all , or most part of their company . and then it would be a time for better men to shew themselves . those that did give security , would be obliged in their own defence , if no otherwise , to own the principles by which they were warranted to give it . besides , it would be as well their interest , as their duty , to disabuse that great part of the laity whom those hildebrandists had fed with lies these fourscore years . it would concern them to possess themselves as well of their consciences , as of their chappels ; and therefore to make them see , how vast a distance there is between that faith which had been chiefly inculcated into them ( i mean , the properly popish faith ) and the primitive christian ; and to convince them what a cursed immorality they have been taught all this while , under the name of obedience to the church ; and to shew them , that the way which their former guides have conspired to miscal by the glorious name of holy martyrdom , is the down-right way to hell. having thus declar'd that most necessary truth , to which both their interest and conscience led them ; the same reasons would oblige them to love home , and to study the peace of their country . they would have little business at rome ; and that would be so ill done there , that they would not be encourag'd to send thither again . on the other hand , of the pope's faction in england , if the laws were so executed , as i have said , none could remain here but only hypocrites and equivocators . and their stay would be very uncomfortable , if they kept silence ; but worse , if they discovered themselves , for then they must expect to suffer the severity of the laws . they must either hang like bare-fac'd traytors , without any pretence of the crown of martyrdom ; or they must take it for a favour , that they may have leave to go after their fellows . and they that are once out of the kingdom , will have no hope to come in again . to be sure they shall not , if the priests of their own church can keep them out , or can discover them lurking in it . nor , i suppose , will any of the laity be very forward to harbour them . we have no reason to think , that any man should be so unreasonable , to venture neck or purse , for the reception of them for whom his soul is not concern'd , when he might without danger , or any apprehension of it , enjoy the exercise of his religion ; when he might have all the offices of it performed by other priests , as canonical in their mission , and as exemplary in their lives ; men free from exception every way , save that they have no tincture of hildebrand's doctrine . if that be it that makes them so in love with a jesuite , that nothing seems sacred that comes out of any other hand , the state has just cause to suspect from whence that niceness proceeds , and to treat them as those that hold correspondence with its enemies . nor can they in this case have any colour to pretend , that they suffer for their religion , who might have enjoy'd their religion , without mingling it with that treason for which they suffer . and however the matter may be thought of by him at rome , whose judgment we ought not to value in this case , i believe no foreign prince will think this a persecution of roman-catholicks . france thought it none , when time was , to banish the jesuites . nor venice to turn out three orders together , which were all that submitted to the pope's interdict and excommunication . there is no reason to doubt , that any other state of that communion would have done the like , upon as great an occasion . so that if any of those states should interpose in favour of those against whom the state of england has so just an exception , it might seem as if they did not so much desire to have them taken in here , as to rid their own country of such vermin , as they would not be willing to harbour . they have reason to apprehend , that those that we send over to them , would teach their own people to do like them , and put the authority there to the trouble of doing the same thing that ours have done here , and which themselves have been fain to do in former times . i say not but any prince that were in hostility , or that thought himself likely ere long to break with england , might be ready to receive this sort of men , as he would do other spies and traytors to their country . there were very great reason , that a prince in those circumstances should consider these men , as being most compleatly qualified for all such purposes . and because the pope is a sure enemy to all them that are for the suppressing of popery , i doubt not , they would find him ready to mingle his quarrels with theirs , and his instruments would work much the better , when they received their impulse from his hand . but all this would last no longer than until those princes thought it their best way to be at peace with us . and that would soon be , if we were at unity among our selves : as we should be , if none were suffered to live among us , but such as might live in an easie , or very tolerable condition . then those princes would soon ease themselves of the burthen , and give the pope leave to find some other way to keep his vermin . which after a while , he would do with such italian frugality , that if their rents were stop'd here in england , they would soon look as thin as fauxes lanthorn ; or to describe them to the life , they would be like envy in the poet. i need not trouble the reader , with minding him , that in case of such a discrimination , there could be no danger of the increase either of priests or seminaries abroad , and as little danger of any commiseration or pity at home , to hinder it from being effectual . it is obvious to every apprehension , that the removal of these dangers would be one of the necessary consequences of it . for who does not see , that if the roman catholicks , on such terms as i have describ'd , might enjoy their religion , and their estates , and their liberty , they would not count them their friends that would perswade them to throw away that enjoyment . doubtless , if some few did not know when they were well , the generality of them would understand it . and both they of their own church , and much more the protestants , would think them not to be pitied , that should lose what they had thrown away with their own hands , especially when they considered , for what end these men did it ; that it was out of a restless desire to bring a foreign tyrannical yoke upon their country . therefore , since by this , and what else has been said on this head , we cannot but see , that the only immediate causes , not only of the propagation , but preservation of popery in this kingdom ; ( viz. the great business and boldness of them of the popish faction , and the great tameness and fearfulness of the other clergy of that communion among us ) would be quite removed by such a discrimination of roman catholicks : we cannot but conclude with the same evidence , that such a discrimination would be effectual to suppress popery in this kingdom . for nothing can be more clear in natural reason then that , wheresoever the only immediate causes both of the propagation and conservation of any thing ceases , there that thing it self must cease to be . and after all that has been said already , we cannot rationally doubt , whether by such a discrimination , those only immediate causes of the preservation and propagation of popery would cease to be any longer in england . 't is manifest to every considering man , that in case of such a discriminating course , duly and constantly held , the busie agents for popery , must either give up their cause , or fly their country . and either way will do our business . if any of them stay , they will do their part toward it , by giving security to the state. which cannot be without the renouncing of popery . if they all go , it will be a blessed riddance of them and popery together . for the active part or soul of it will depart with the jesuites . and the body or scheme of doctrines will be interr'd by those whom they leave behind them , or rather hang'd up , for it does not deserve christian burial . 2. such a discrimination would also be just and equitable . for it would be according to the intention of the laws of this kingdom , and most agreeable to the eternal law of reason , and the ancient practice of the christian world. by all these rules i have shewn , that it is not just nor equitable , that the penalties of the laws , as now they are , should be inflicted on all roman catholicks indifferently , without any respect of loyal or disloyal . and in proving this , i have sufficiently shewn , ( for it follows by the rule of contraries above-mention'd , ) that it is both just and equitable , that all of that religion , who being faulty in nothing else , shall give such assurance of their loyalty , as the state shall think fit to require , should enjoy an exemption from those penalties , which were never intended for such persons . but of this more shall be spoken in due place . for them , on the other hand , who refuse to give such an assurance , and by their obstinacy therein , would keep the state in perpetual jealousie , and expose it to the danger of unknown enemies , who cannot be known from good subjects , but by such a way of distinction as they endeavour to obstruct : i conceive 't is just and equitable , that the state should look upon them either as enemies , or at least , as the concealers of enemies . if they are only concealers of such enemies as our papalins are , it is just that they should suffer for it in the same degree as they transgress against the law , and as they hinder the security of the state. and it is no small transgression in them , that not only disobey the law , but ( as far as in them lies ) make many laws utterly useles . for those laws being provided for the security of the state against a sect , or rather faction of men , who are dangerous in the highest degree , and for whom the law has therefore procured the highest punishment ; it is certainly a great presumption of those , who in spight , and as it were in defiance of the law , will keep them not only from being punisht , but from being so much as distinguisht . now it is evident that the papalins are such a faction , whose principles lead them , when they see their opportunity , to subvert the present government and laws both of the church and kingdom of england . it is certain that in pursuance of these principles , they have attempted to do all this more than once within these last hundred years . and this in favour to the pretences of a foreiner , who has more than one dormant title to the sovereignty of england , who actually invaded ireland in queen elizabeths days , and usurpt the royal power there by his nuncio in our age ; who assumes to himself in some cases ( whereof he makes himself the only judge ) a right to dispose of all states and kingdoms whatsoever . if therefore any state may justly endeavour to preserve it self against a forein enemy , and may make laws to restrain their own people from joyning with them , and may punish with death or otherwise , as many as shall presume to break those laws ; england has all this right within it self , as well as any other state , and may use it as well against the pope as against any other enemy . and therefore the state may require all its subjects to declare against his usurpation , and to renounce all those principles that are any way favourable to it . if any of them shall refuse to do do this , the state may justly punish them , whether with death or otherwise , according to its laws ; which in this point are enacted with the highest reason , and backt with all other laws , divine and humane , &c. with the practice not only of other christian states , but of all other nations in the world . i know the refusers will be ready to say , their conscience will not suffer them to declare against that power which the pope assumes to himself , nor to renounce those ill principles which they say are a part of their religion . no doubt they that are through-papists have great reason to say this . for popery , as i have shewn , does consist of such principles , which though , as to the matter of them , they are truly secular and political , yet go veiled under the sacred name of religion . they whose interest it is to have them believed , are pleased to make them articles of the catholick faith. and no doubt it takes with many . for we see there are those that do not stick to sacrifice their lives for those principles . and what can be dearer to men than their lives , but religion ? we see they do not spare the lives of men of opposite principles , against whom they profess to have no other quarrel but religion . and we have reason to believe them ; for 't is what our saviour said , when they kill you , they shall think they are doing god service . but what religion is that , which teaches men to do things which are so evidently against the light of nature , as murder ; especially when joyned with rebellion , and acted upon the persons of their own princes , and tending to the dissolution of humane society and destruction of mankind ? whatsoever religion this be , sure enough 't is not christian , nor such as ought to be allow'd among christians . and therefore if their conscience binds them not to renounce it , so does the magistrates conscience bind him to punish them for it . 't is the duty of him that bears the sword to punish all immorality , though never so lawful or necessary in the judgment of him that commits it . if a jew or a turk come to live in this kingdom , and marry many wives , which he may safely do by his law , 't is just by our law to hang him for it . much more if one be guilty of such immorality as tends immediately to the subversion of the kingdom , it is both just and necessary to send him away , or not let him live in it but at his peril . and if he complain that this is persecution for conscience , ( which by the way cannot but sound very odly from one of that sect , that burn men only for conscience ) his complaint in this case would be very unreasonable : and we ought to be no more moved with it , than we should be , if he complain'd that we would not stand still , and have our throats cut , in compliance with his conscience . there is nothing that can secure state or people against this religious distemper of the fiery papalins , and that can also preserve the civil rights and proprieties of good subjects of that communion , but only such a discrimination between them as may distinguish the loyal from the disloyal , the turbulent from the peaceable , in such manner that they both may have what they deserve . this is in effect to render to every one his due , according to law and reason : which is the very definition of justice and equity . for the administration whereof god has ordain'd the civil power , and put the sword into the magistrates hand , to employ it , ( as the apostle says ) to the praise of them that do well , and for the terror of evil doers . by what has been said on this last head , it sufficiently appears , that such a discrimination is also for the interest of the church and state of england . for that interest is preserv'd by justice and equity ; which will entitle it to that blessing from god which he hath promis'd in his word , and which are naturally apt to be instrumental to the divine providence in producing that good which he has promised . for a just distribution of rewards and punishments makes the government venerable in the eyes of the people , and secures it at home by their chearful obedience . it also acquires that reputation abroad which will make it either loved or feared by all the neighbour nations . our neighbours of the roman communion who are now possest by the clamours of those among us , that say they are persecuted for religion , and who can judge no otherwise when they see men severely handled that are criminal no other way , will be soon disabused by such a discrimination . and it will right us to those protestants abroad , to whom the state has been ill represented by fome on the other hand , for not executing all the penal laws against popery . it will save england the trouble of making apologies either way , to vindicate the justice of its proceedings to other nations . for it is manifest , that no government can tolerate such as hold tenets inconsistent with its own safety ; nor on the contrary , deny the protection of the laws to men whose principle it is to obey the government , and to do all that in them lies to support it : to venture their lives in defence of the authority , not only of the legislators , but of those very laws which they make against them , till those laws are repeal'd by the same power by which they were made . it were easie to bring hither all those reasons with which i shewed before , that undistinguishing laws and execution of laws are against the interest of the church and state of england ; and to prove by the same reasons , that nothing of this kind can be more for it than such a discrimination as is here propounded . for if it be for the interest of england to support and strengthen the government , then it is not to weaken the friends of the government , nor to strengthen or preserve the enemies of it . i shew'd that such would be the effect of an undistinguishing way ; which is therefore desired by them of the popish faction , as being next to a toleration the most likely means to unite and to encrease their party among us . now taking those things for granted which are already proved , it follows that , upon the account of interest , this way of discrimination should be as desirable to us as 't is hateful and detestable to them . sure enough they apprehend it , and not without visible cause , to be the likeliest way both to stop the further growth of ▪ popery , and to lessen the number of papists among us . i may add ( which is visible in the nature of the thing ) that a discrimination between them that are of the same communion will be a sure way to divide them among themselves . which may be a means to do some of them the greatest spiritual good , or at least to keep us from taking that hurt which we have reason to fear from so numerous and powerful a combination against us . for the way of distinction between papists and other roman catholicks must be by some test or mark of distinction . and that either by the passing of some new law for it , especially when there is a new mark of distinction , or by the strict execution of those laws that are in force for the taking of any test that is already made . in either of these cases , the papalins ( who are men of intelligence ) will take an early alarm , and try their friends here in england , if they can to prevent the passing of any such law , or the execution of any that is past . if their friends fail them here , their next resort is to rome , where they have an old friend that never fails them . the pope , if he has not forgotten the old trick , sends out his censures against all that shall submit to those laws , and take the test which is prescribed in them . if it be no more than the oath of allegiance , that is forbidden already by divers popes , and condemned by them as having many things in it which are contrary to the catholic faith. and the reason of this severity is , as well to guard their own temporal power , as to keep their creatures and friends from discovery . if any here , and especially if any priests of that communion , are so bold , notwithstanding all this to take the test ; then upon the next information , or soon after , the pope sends to tell nofes . and if he finds they are but few that transgress ( which will scarce be in our case ) he delays not to cite them to rome , and if they come thither , woe be to them ; if not , he curses them afresh , and particularly . but if they are many , he considers their strength , and being curse-proof , he forbears them for the present , only leaving them under his general censures . otherwise , if they are a weak and obnoxious multitude , he proceeds to further censures against them . and if some few have been more forward than the rest in doing that which the law requires , and specially if any dares justifie what they have done , he denounces them excommunicate by name , and therein both sacrifices them to his own angry deity , and gives his discovered creatures some kind of revenge on those poor men , to ease their hearts , till he and they can find how to be reveng'd on the state , for which they are to wait their opportunity . when any of these things happens , as it has done in like cases , and as it will do in these above-mentioned , if popes are constant to themselves : ( for there is nothing here said but what i could prove both by rule and example ) we have reason to hope that some of those censur'd men , who are able to right themselves , or rather their religion , will do it , by declaring against the horrible injury that is done both to it and them . and specially their priests , who have hitherto alledg'd , that the reason they have not done it all this while , has been their continual fear of a proclamation to send them beyond sea , where they are sure to be call'd to a severe account for whatsoever they have said or done against the interest of rome . when that fear is over , as it will be upon their giving security to the state , it may justly be expected , that they will both speak and write their minds freely , as occasion shall be offered , for the instruction of their people , and for the vindication of themselves and their religion . if the general censures be objected , as it is certain they will , by those that procur'd them , they will be oblig'd to shew the injustice and the invalidity of those censures . if they are excommunicated by name for so doing , they will be further engag'd to consider the authority of him that lays about him so madly with the keys of the church . it was so in luther's case , the quarrel begun between him and the procurers of the pope's bulls . it proceeded from them to their patrons in the court of rome . and so at last it came up to the papal authority it self . who knows but that it may please god ( for vexatio dat intellectum ) that many among us being vext with declarations , that are certainly uncanonical , may be brought by that means to discover , that the power which sent them forth is antichristian ? the most difficult thing that is required toward the making this discovery , is only to lay aside those strong prejudices which men commonly receive from their education , and from converse with men and things of that age in which they live . he that laying aside these shall look impartially into the scriptures , and into the undoubted records of the primitive church , shall find no foundation for that prodigious fabrick of the papacy . for the first three hundred years after christ , they will find only two , namely victor and stephen , that took upon them to censure any which were not of their diocess . and though their censures ( for ought that appears ) were only declarations of non-communion , such as any bishop in those days might send forth against the bishop of rome , as well as he against other bishops ; yet we find that , even for that , they were blamed and condemned by other bishops . and that is all the effect that we read their censures had in any place out of rome it self . pope victor in his censure of the asian bishops , is thought not to have gone beyond threatning , to break communion with them , and endeavouring to persuade other bishops to do the same . and yet for this he was smartly handled by some of the brethren : and it is charitably thought he was set right by the grave counsel of irenaeus , who writ to him in the name of the gallican church , and told him he did not learn this of any of his predecessors . of pope stephen it is certain that he went farther in his quarrel with the asian and african bishops . for he not only broke off communion , but all civil conversation with them ; and commanded his people not to let any of them come within their doors . but this was only at rome . for it does not appear that he pretended any authority elsewhere . and how he was scorn'd abroad for his pride and folly in this , the reader may see in those two excellent epistles . the later of which was left out of the roman edition of st. cyprian : and pamelius honestly declares he would have stifled it , if others had not publish'd it before him . lest any one should take offence at my not giving the usual garnish of the popes of that age to those two whom i mentioned , ( for i dare not call them saints and martyrs , though the roman church does , both elsewhere , and in her offices on their days ) i ought to let him know how that church is abused by them that have gained no small advantage to themselves by such fictions . that the old roman church in the time of constantius knew nothing of either of their martyrdoms , it appears by her catalogue of popes , publisht first by cuspinian , and since by bucherius the jesuite . nay she knew the contrary of one of them . for in the roman calendar of that age , publisht by the same iesuite , victor is not mentioned at all , and stephen is among the popes that were no martyrs . if this proof were not enough , or if this place were proper for it , i should shew from good authors , that though these popes lived under emperors that were afterwards persecutors ; yet they died before the beginning of their persecutions . i do not say but they may be saints ; but if they are , 't is more than we have any ground to believe . for neither the church-history , nor any writer within a hundred years of their time , has any more of their sanctity than of their sufferings . of stephen there is great cause to doubt the contrary from what we read of him in st. cyprian's * epistle , and more from that of firmilian , † which is thought to have been translated by st. cyprian , and which was written * about the time of stephens death , rather after than before it . it is to be hoped that many roman catholics among us have truly that reverence which all of them profess to true primitive christian antiquity , and to the judgment of saints and martyrs in all ages . we all agree that irenaeus and cyprian had a just right to those titles . and firmilian was a chief pillar of the church in his age. he was thought worthy to preside in several eastern councils : namely , in that against the novatians , before stephen was pope : and those against samosatenus , after stephen was dead . and after his own death , the eastern * church of that age called him firmilian of blessed memory . why this man is not in the calendar of saints , they best know who can tell us why victor and stephen are there . no doubt the saint-makers do all things with great consideration . but can any one imagin that those excellent men did ever believe themselves to be under the roman bishop ? that they ow'd any obedience to him whom they school'd so , or any reverence to his censures which they slighted in that manner ? could any assurance of their cause have justified that contempt of authority , if they had known any in him ? but it appears they knew it not ; nor did others in that age. those that were against them in the cause , blamed them for that , and nothing else ; and yet held communion with them , for all pope stephen and his censures . so far it appears those great men had the judgment of the church on their side . they knew of no authority over the universal church that the pope had more than any other bishop by any right , whether divine or humane . what the judgment of the church was in the next centuries , let them consider that shall read those canons * in the margent , and remember they are such as past in the first four general councils , and in the african council of 217 bishops , ( of whom st. austin was one ) assembled at carthage . to which i add , the african church to pope coelestine i. as containing a full declaration of their mind in that canon . i know there are objections against one or two of these canons . but all the dust that has been rais'd will not hinder any reasonable man from seeing that which , i think , is sufficient for our purpose : namely , that all the fathers that sate in those councils , or at least the major part of them , were of the same judgment with those above-mentioned in this point of the authority of the bishop of rome . they all allow'd him precedency as being bishop of the imperial city . they had commonly a great deference to his judgment in debates between themselves . and sometimes the christian emperors made him honorary judge , whether alone or with others , in such controversies . indeed by the canons of sardica , those few † western bishops that continued there , after the easterlings had left them , were pleased meerly of their charity to give him a new power , to order the reviewing of any provincial judgment upon complaint of any bishop that was aggrieved in it . and pope leo not being satisfied with this , got the emperor valentinian iii. to ordain * that the bishop of rome should give law throughout his part of the empire ( which then contained little more than italy , and part of france , and part of spain , and the illyrian diocess . ) yet all that the bishop of rome had by these concessions and grants did not amount to an authority over the universal church . i add , nor over the british church in * particular . and so far was this from arguing that he had by divine right any jurisdiction out of his own diocess , that his seeking or accepting what was given him by these concessions or grants , is a convincing argument to the contrary . but for the churches judgment , nothing can be more plain , than that all those bishops who gave their votes to those canons which i cited before out of the first four general councils , and that of africk , together with the epistle annext , had no question or thought of any authority that he had by divine right out of his own proper diocess , or by humane right out of the roman patriarchy , or any power of jurisdiction that he had elsewhere from the roman emperors , or from the primitive fathers . whatsoever power he has gotten since the decay of the roman empire and of the christian religion , ( from whence i have already * dated the beginning of popery ) as it is plain he has gotten in many countries , which were not anciently within his jurisdiction upon any account , it must be either by force or fraud , abusing either the weakness or ignorance of the people , or else by the concession or connivence of princes and states . blessed be god , there are some christian nations in the world which have stood so far out of his reach , that he has not been able to hook them in by any of these ways . and as he has no colourable pretence to a power over those countries where it is certain he never had any , as ethiopia , russia , &c. ( which they that are pleased to call therefore schismatical , must give me leave to admire as well their folly as their uncharitableness : and yet they that do not call them so , make the pope no head of the universal church : ) so in those countries where he has gotten power , it is not necessary that he should always hold it , till we see who is antichrist , whether he , or one of the tribe of dan , who ( they say ) shall come to take it from him . they over whom he gain'd a power by force or fraud , are kept under it still the same way ; which creates no right by any law whatsoever . and therefore when god makes them strong enough , and wise enough , they will deliver themselves from him . they that gave him a power over them when they saw cause , may have as good or better cause to recal it . and they have just cause to do this , when they see him desert that title by their gift , and claim his power by immediate divine right , or when he employs his power not to edification but destruction : and specially when doing all this he will force their obedience by such means , as come not from the wisdom which is from above , but from that which the apostle calls earthly , sensual , devillish . whosoever among our roman catholicks will be pleased to consider these things with that attention and impartiality that is due to all things of religion , i cannot but think he will see that the christian religion doth no way oblige him to own the popes authority in this kingdom . he will see that iure divino the pope could have no authority over this particular church , which he had not over the church universal . and it doth not appear by any records of the primitive times , that the pope ever had any such authority over the universal church , or that by the diffusive church he was believed or acknowledged to have it . but on the contrary it appears , by instances which i have given of those times , that he was denied to have such an authority , and that as well by the bishops assembled in their councils , as by the best and wisest men of those times in their writings : nay he was contradicted and resisted as oft as he endeavoured to impose any thing against the mind of particular churches . he will see that whatsoever humane right the pope had acquired over the people of this kingdom , was no more of one kind , than we are all originally of one nation ; and that the power which he was suffered to exercise over us , was very much greater at one time than another . in the worst and darkest times it was highest , for it grew up on the bad titles or other weakness of princes ; and yet then he could not hold it peaceably , nor long enough to make a prescription . but at all other times it was much less than he claim'd ; which sheweth plainly it was no more but what the state pleased to give him : and they owned that the pope had no right over them by any concessions of their own , more than what he had over the rest of the western churches . particularly , in those times next before the reformation , that right which was generally acknowledged to be in him , was not a supreme right , but subordinate to a general council . this appears to have been the sense of the western church . for it was declared in plain terms by four councils , which were acknowledged for general in that age , and were abetted as such by the generality of the western church . they not only declared this doctrine in their canons , but they reduced it to practice . for those councils deposed divers popes , and made new ones in their stead . which acts of theirs the papalins of this age are obliged to defend , as ill as they like the canons ; for without them they cannot make up the succescession of their present popes . but admitting those acts to have been just and good , how can they reject those canons from which they had their virtue and efficacy ? if they say the pope did not approve them , it is partly true . out of doubt those popes did not like them that lost by them . nor perhaps those that came in by those canons might not like them so well at another time . but how then could they take upon them to be popes ? their accepting a title from those councils , and the peoples owning them in it , was enough to shew that those canons were then in force ; and they were never repealed by any council since ; nor hath there been any council to do it , that can be reasonably thought so fit , as those four were , to declare the sense of the western diffusive church . therefore taking it for proved , that a general council is superiour to the pope , it must necessarily follow that there lies an appeal from the pope to such a council . and that his hands are tied up by such an appeal ; so that he cannot proceed at least to censure the appellant ; for this were not only a private injury to the person , but an invasion of the rights of the supreme court of judicature among christians . therefore if the pope should do so uncanonical a thing , he may be canonically disobeyed and resisted . yea , he ought to be so ( for it were a betraying the churches right to do otherwise ) till there is such a court or council to which the appeal was made . and such a council there would be at least once in ten years , if the pope did not hinder it . for having taken upon-himself the power of calling and presiding in councils , it is his pleasure to have none . and no doubt he hath reason for it , though there is law to the contrary , as good law for a council every ten * years as can be made by any authority in the western church . such appeals from the pope to a general council have been made by divers persons and societies in the roman communion ; as namely , by auxilius in the name of the clergy of all italy ; by michael of caesena in the name of the whole franciscan order ; by seven cardinals , who were at that time the major part of their colledge ; by divers emperours of germany , against divers popes , some of whom they deposed , and made other popes in their councils ; by divers kings of france , some of whom have forbid all communication with rome till they had right done them in their controversies . that some of these had cause enough for what they did , and that they had just authority to do it , will be granted by most of them of the roman church . but they will not grant the like of our king henry viii . whom they make author of the protestant schism , as they call it . and yet setting aside popular opinions and prejudices , i do not see what there was really in his case which might not be cleared from schism by those rules and examples . i speak only of his casting off the popes authority , as being that which no doubt was a means to bring on the reformation . as for those other things with which he is charged , they are extrinsick to our cause , and we are no way accountable for them . namely , for his dissolving of monasteries , it was a one whom wolsey had bred to it that taught him the way , and b they whom he employed would have burnt us if we had lived in those days . for his being head of the church , whosoever is offended at it , let him blame the c six-article men who brought up that title , and who both preached and writ for it , and not the q. elizabeth protestants d who cast it forth . much more for his personal excesses , whatsoever they were , if they concern any religion , it must be theirs and not ours . for as to his conscience , e they tell us , he always continued a roman catholic . these things being set apart , or charged where they ought to be , there will remain on our account only this to be considered , whether that prince were guilty of schism in casting the popes authority out of this kingdom ? or whether he did no more in that matter than he might lawfully do , according to the principles of his own ▪ that is , the roman , communion ? if he had right to appeal from the pope to a council , and was hindred by him from prosecuting that right , and was thereby forced to disobey and oppose him ; in this case it has been shewn that disobedience and resistance was lawful . whether that were his case , will appear by searching into matter of fact. and to be rightly informed of this , one must not take all for true that sanders says ; though having the luck to be contemned at the first by them that should have confuted him , he has carried the world before him ever since , being not only transcribed by the writers of his side , but also followed by many others that seem not to know whence they have their stories . we that live in a more inquisitive age have seen many things of which he is , the author , acknowledged by his a friends to be very improbable , and some things proved by b others to have been altogether impossible . yet in those things which he says without evident partiality , protestants are not unwilling he should be heard ; and roman catholics may be content to hear others with him , who , though protestants , yet , are not liable to the like imputation . in the caufe of that king's appeal , many things are to be considered elsewhere , which are not proper for this occasion . it suffices to know that in his minority he was c betrothed to katharine of spain his brothers widow . that the contract was made by his father , for reasons of state , against the judgment and advice of d archbishop warham ; who then told him that he thought it neither honourable , nor well-pleasing to god. that the e people at that time murmured against it , and f soon after the prince himself , as warham advised , made a formal protestation that he would never marry her . and yet , after his fathers death , he was perswaded to it , and did g marry her with the popes dispensation . when he had lived with her near seventeen years , and , as h sanders says , was weary of her , ( whether he was or no is not material , ) the popes legate cardinal wolsey * pretended to have found a nullity in the marriage ; and , in care for the king's salvation , ( as he said ) acquainted bishop longland , the kings confessor , with it . they both declared this to the king ; whose ancient doubt being now revived , he spent i almost a whole year in study and consultation concerning it . i enter not into the merit of the cause , being indifferent at this time whether the marriage was lawful or no. for it appears ( which is enough ) that he had reason to doubt , and that he took the best way for satisfaction , according to their principles . when * he had satisfied his own judgment , ( as i himself says , though † sanders say otherwise . ) and had the judgments , not only of those men before-mentioned , but of all the k clergy of england , save two , that his marriage was null ; and he had l reason to believe that most learned men abroad were of the same opinion ; there wanted only this more to have the popes declaration of the nullity . this at present could not be had , for he was the emperour's prisoner . but as soon as he was at liberty , being desired by the king , who had m obliged him above all men , and whom as yet he had occasion to use , it seemed at first that there would be no difficulty that way . for the pope granted all his requests , gave the king what n commissioners he had named , impower'd them to hear the matter in england , gave them o bulls to shew the king ; and to assure him he was in earnest , because things could not be done presently in form of law , he gave him secret p advice to marry while the cause was depending . the king having been two years without a wife , and not only holding himself free in his conscience , but expecting to be shortly declared so , and having now some kind of leave to chuse another ; cast his eye on anne q bolen , one whose person and birth might have r deserved the best of his subjects ; and who being then a stranger in s england , could not have that part which * sanders gives her in displacing queen katharine ; nor could have preserved her any otherwise , than by submitting to the king's lust , the refusal t whereof made her worthy of a nobler application . but this lady had been brought up in france among protestants , and was suspected to have some inclination u that way ; which suspicion was enough , not only to blacken her , but to dash the king's x suit , much the sooner if not only for her sake . it moved but slowly before , for the pope , being y engaged by the emperour , had sent instructions z after his legates , requiring them to use all possible delays , either to conceal a his bulls , or to burn them , and leave him free to do as he should see occasion . thus far he seems to have gone , before he heard what choice the king had made . but when that was discovered , ( and whether for that cause , or because he had made a new b alliance with the emperour , which tended to make the popes c nephew duke of florence , and the queen being the emperour's aunt ought in reason to have some benefit of it ) whatsoever moved him to it , the pope after this would trust her cause no longer in england , but having voided d that commission to his legates , called it home to his own determination . the king not knowing what to do next , and taking time to consider in his progress , had e cranmer brought to him by some that chanced to hear him say what they thought was material in the case . he was a f stranger to all that had passed hitherto ( which i mention , because some would make him a chief man in it . ) but from what he had heard , and especially from their discourse , he judged that the king had taken a wrong way ; in courting the pope to retract his predecessour's dispensation : whereas in truth , as most learned men thought , the matter it self was indispensable . and because it was not reasonable to expect that the pope would judge it so , ( for that had been to cut off a main limb of the papacy ) he therefore wish'd that instead of dancing attendance at rome , the king would send to the universities ( as being most able and unconcerned ) and get them to declare their judgments in the case . hereupon the king sent g learned men with his case , and got the judgments of the universities upon it . to send to those in the emperours dominions had been to no purpose . but he had ours in england , and those in france of his side ; and the two h chief in italy , though not only the emperour i opposed , but the pope , k who had bologna in his territory . and whereas it is said the king bought them , which his agents l deny ; they say that the emperour bought m hands on the contrary ; and that he offered largely to get those who had given their judgments for the king to retract it , but they would not take his money , though they might much more safely than the other . the king being thus strengthened in his cause , had reason to be the less in fear of the pope , and yet it appears he was not the more willing to break with him . for , after this , he made fresh a application to him by his orators and letters ; which were seconded with a petition under the hands and seals of both the b archbishops and others , the chief men of the three states of this kingdom . they represented their own and others judgments of the case , they passionately besought him to do the king and them right in it , they declared that if he did not , they should think he had left them to themselves . all this came out of time , for the pope was not then to be perswaded to break his alliance while he was gathering c the fruits of it . this the king understood by his d answer . and therefore knowing what he was to expect from abroad , he was the more careful to secure himself at home . where to satisfie the minds of the people , he declared what had passed to all his subjects in e parliament ; he shewed them the judgments of the universities , and the books of above one hundred doctors against the lawfulness of his marriage . he also caused the same to be shewn f to queen katharine by some lords of his council ; who would have perswaded her to withdraw her appeal that she had made to the pope , and to refer her cause to the judgment of others . she refused it , and thereupon g was removed from the court , and had her choice given her of the kings houses in the country . the queen prosecuting her appeal , the pope by letters exhorted the king to receive her . which he refused , as being unlawful for him to do ; and offered the h pope to send doctors to dispute it before him . he also got i the king of france , to mediate for him , who did it , as being assured of the justice of his cause . but all this did not hinder the pope from k committing it to the dean of the rota , who cited the king to appear before him . this being done k once , and l again , the king entred his m protest against all proceedings in that court. and the same n day he privately married anne bolen ; in which , if he was too hasty , it was because he had not been quite seven years to consider . not long after this , he had o the nullity of his former marriage judg'd and declared in his own kingdom . which being done , he owned her publickly as his queen , and gave her the p solemnity of a coronation . this was no sooner heard of at rome , but the pope , ( who as long as the king was plaintiff , had used q all possible delay and dissimulation ; now the scales being turned , ) without delay ▪ r declared this marriage a nullity ; and gave sentence of excommunication against the king , unless he put away anne , and restored katharine , before the end of september next . the mean while the pope made sure of the french king by a treaty then afoot , which produced an interview between them at marseilles , and a marriage between their two nearest relations . our king , in hope this new allyance would have given good effect to the french king's mediation in his behalf , sent his embassadours thither . they waited there for a while , but found nothing but delays . and the pope was now returning to rome , where he resolved to proceed in the cause . therefore at an s audience before him , they declared the king's appeal from the pope to the next lawful general council . which appeal the pope t rejected , as being unlawful , and against the constitution of one of his predecessours . he also declared that there should be a general council ; but that the calling of it belonged not to the king , but to himself . and soon after , the term that he had set for the restoring of queen katharine being now expired , he caused his sentence against the king to be openly set up at dunkirk , which was then in the emperours dominions . this was only a declarative sentence , in the case of attentates , as they term it ; but this being passed , there was no doubt but soon after he would proceed to a definitive sentence in the cause . the king was now concerned to look about him , and to provide for the worst that could happen . therefore first , with the advice of his u council , he acquainted his subjects with his appeal , which he caused to be set up on every church door throughout his kingdom ; and that his people might understand the validity of it , he commanded that they should be taught , that a general council is above the pope , and that by gods law the pope has no more to do in england than any other forein bishop . next he sent to engage as many forein princes as he could into a stricter allyance with him . and yet lastly , to shew that he sought not these ways , but was driven to them ; he x desired the bishop of paris , who was then embassadour in england , to get his prince to deal effectually with the pope ; and to promise in his name , that if the pope would forbear to pass any definitive sentence , till the cause might be heard before indifferent judges , he would also forbear what he had otherwise purposed to do , that is , to withdraw his obedience from the see of rome . the bishop gladly took the office of mediation upon himself ; and though it was now † the dead of winter , yet he went post to rome to discharge it . there in consistory he delivered his message to the pope ; and so far prevailed , that , at his earnest request , there was a present stop of proceedings , on condition , that the king should send a ratification of his promise precisely by such a day . in prefixing the day they seemed not to have considered the time of the year . for though the messenger , whom the bishop sent into england , found a present dispatch there ; yet , being hindered y by weather , he did not return within his day . the pope , as if he had watcht for that advantage , resolved immediately to proceed to a definitive sentence . there being z a consistory called for that purpose , the bishop once more came in , and pressed for a longer time . he begg'd no more but six days , which as he said a might be granted to a king that had waited on them with patience for six years . it was put to the vote ; where , through the eagerness of the imperial , cardinals , not only that small request was denied ; but such b precipitation was used , that as much was done at once in that consistory , as would have askt no less than thrice according to their usual forms . such hast they were in , to cut off , and to destroy him whom three popes c successively had entitled their defender and deliverer . when they had done their will ; within less than fix days , that is , the second day after this rash and hasty sentence , the post d returned from the king with a ratification of all that had been promised in his name . and he brought this further offer from the king , that he would submit to the judgment of that court , on condition that the imperial cardinals , who had made themselves parties against him , should be none of his judges . there was an authority sent , for proctors to appear for him on that condition . at which great submission of the king , compared with their precipitation , the wiser cardinals e were astonished , and petitioned the pope for an arrest of judgment . which could not well be denied him in those circumstances . and yet it was as if it had not been granted ; for they that got the sentence passed by majority of votes , had the same will and power to get it confirmed . and f confirmed it was , with this advantage ; that the execution of the sentence was committed to the emperour ; who would be sure to see it done thoroughly , as well to enrich himself with the spoyls , as to take his revenge in the ruine of a prince that had provoked him no way more , than in his zeal for the deliverance of this pope out of his hands . in this series of things , i cannot but observe the hand of god ; and adore that unsearchable wisdom by which he made way to bring in the reformation of this church . there was no king in that age so zealous for popery , as he had been , that came now to throw it out of his kingdom . whosoever considers him from first to last in this business , cannot but see he had no intention to do this . he did all things to avoid it , that could be done by one who was perswaded of the justice of his cause . and those princes and prelates who were perswaded as he was , did their parts to hinder things from coming to this extremity . none desired it but the spanish and imperial faction , unless perhaps the pope himself could desire to lessen the papacy , by cutting off a whole kingdom from the church , but he g seemed to mind nothing but the raising of his family , and in order to that , let the imperialists do what they would with him . perhaps he might think , when his own turns were served , to give the king satisfaction afterwards ; as it may seem by what h one says , that when the sentence was past , he suspended the execution of it till the end of september next . but he died i before that time , and so his sentence continued in force . the next pope that came after him did not approve what he had done ; for to use his own k words he had urged him to right the king in his divorce , and would have perswaded the emperour to have born it patiently . but as then he could not prevail on that side , so now he came too late to be heard on the other . for on the l day of his coronation at rome the parliament met here in england that made the act of supremacy . the edge of which law falling severely on the friends of the papacy , even while m the pope was offering at a reconciliation ; he was thereby provoked to n curse the king afresh , by a bull which yet was not published till some years after . when the king having presumed to un-saint thomas becket , the pope o thereupon pronounced him no king , which made the breach quite unreconcileable . i have given so large account of this matter , because it is brought into common discourse ; and as it is told , serves to blacken many other , beside the king who was only or chiefly concerned in it . otherwise it would serve for our present occasion , to show , ( which i think i have sufficiently done , ) that he had cause to appeal from the pope to a council , that he did appeal in due form of law , and prosecuted it with great moderation ; which was enough to acquit him from schism , as far as we are concerned in it : that on the other hand the pope rejected his appeal , to the affront of that supreme tribunal among christians ; and not only proceeded against the appellant , in which case the appellant might , and ought , to resist him ; but he also took a course that the case should never be otherwise . for whereas the pope assumes to himself the only power to call councils , and whereas there had been none in ten years , to say no more , and therefore a council ought to have been then according to the canons ; yet the pope would have no council , then , nor afterwards , till he had tried all other ways to destroy both the king and his kingdom . when at last , after many years talk and deliberation , a council was called , that at trent , which pretends to be a general council ; it was such as the king could not think himself bound to acknowledge , nay he was bound to oppose it , as well for his own preservation , as to maintain the common right of christians , according to the principles then received in the western church . by his appeal , he was not bound to submit to any other than he expressed in it , that is , a lawful general council . such the councils of constance and basil were then generally acknowledged to have been . and it was the cry of the western church , as well in this as the foregoing ages , for such a council , as those were , to reform abuses as well in the head as in the members . but the head was as it would be ; and therefore , being to chuse , would take no physick to cure it self . this was visible in the popes extreme averseness to a council ; till he saw that , without it , the nations were likely to reform themselves . then he began to think it needful to call one himself . but at first he named no time or place . then he named first one town , and then another . when men began to think he was in earnest , ( for they had been often fooled with reports , ) the king declared he would not own a council called by the popes single authority . it was the judgment of the church of england that he ought not to own it ; for so their synod declared , that neither the bishop of rome , nor any one prince whatsoever , may by his own authority call a general council without the express consent of the residue of christian princes . when afterwards it appeared that the pope was intent upon it , the king , on the same grounds , made his publick protestation ; shewing that the indiction of a council belonged not to the bishop of rome , but to the emperour and princes which should send or come thither . the like protestation he sent abroad into all forein countries . and he afterward made it good , by not sending one bishop to the council when it met ▪ though one of his subjects was there , whom the pope was pleased to make a bishop with a title in this kingdom . having thus no obligation to own this for a general council ; he was therefore obliged to oppose it , as being the mockery and abuse of that supreme judicatory , joyned with the defrauding all christians of their right in it , and particularly himself of the benefit of his appeal to it . which things he ought to have considered , had it been held in the most innocent manner . but much more being held as it was , with most apparent design , to establish those abuses which all christendome cried out to have reformed , to deprive the diffusive church of that which was the only remedy for them , to bring it to pass that there should be no more general council , as now we see there is like to be none while the world stands ; particularly as to himself he had cause to oppose the trent council , as far as he was able . for it was originally * designed to please the emperour ; and thereby to oblige him to head the party of christian princes , whom the pope was then uniting to make war against england . and as that council was framed in all its circumstances , the king could consider it no otherwise than he did the pope himself , who was his open and implacable enemy : for as the pope called it by his single authority , so he always presided in it by his legates . he had it filled with his creatures , italians , and others , who were sure to carry every thing by their number . and yet for fear they should forget themselves , every thing must be examined at rome , before it could pass through their hands . and being past , yet it was of no force till it had the pope's approbation . by which means he made himself so far lord of this council , that though perhaps he could not pass whatsoever he pleased , yet nothing could pass that should displease him in it . and least , by taking all this care , the pope might seem to intend no more but only to secure himself , without doing the king a farther injury ; there was one thing which made it appear that he had as great a mind to plague the king as to provide for his own preservation . for among all his number of cardinals he could find none fitter to preside in the council , and there to judge the king's cause , ( if he were so unwise as to send it thither ) than one that was the king's enemy more than the pope himself , if it were possible . that was a cardinal pool , the king 's unnatural subject and kinsman ; who being b brought up by him , and sent to travel for his farther improvement , and , while he was abroad , being c intrusted by him in his cause , forsook it , and joined himself to the imperial party . in which , though he might pretend that he followed his conscience , yet nothing could excuse him for practising against his king and his country . he was the man employed to d write against the king's divorce ; and out-did other writers in this , that he e stirred up the emperour to revenge his aunts injury , for fear he should forget it ; and not only so , but f went about from prince to prince , and from country to country to stir them up to war against this realm . for which so unworthy and so officious a disloyalty , he was g declared traitor at home by act of parliament , and h had a price set upon his head ; not to mention other instances of the king 's extreme displeasure against him . when this had so far endeared him to the pope , that being not content to have made him one of his cardinals , he must also have this man to preside in his council ; the english had so much the more cause to be jealous , and to stand upon their guard , as well against his council as himself . a general council they could not hold it to be , for their church was not allowed to have any right in it . though she had not lost her right , any otherwise , than as being cut off by the pope's uncanonical censures ; against which she was relievable on her appeal thither , if that had truly been a general council . and the bishops whom she should send to represent her in such a council had as much to do there ( precedence only excepted ) as the pope himself had , according to the ancient canons . but now , as matters were ordered at trent , if she had sent any thither and if they had been admittable otherwise , yet they must not sit there without owning the pope in his legate . they must not only be joyned into one body with him , but they must acknowledge him for their representative head , who yet to them was no other than a man dead in law. for they knew him to be condemned for a traytor , by that authority to which they were subjects , as well as trent as in england . and though the popes placing him there in that character was the highest affront that could be done to the justice of their nation ; yet they must submit , nay , contribute to that affront , by owning him in that character , or else they must have no place in that council . this contumelious condition being implicitly imposed on our bishops , was a virtual exclusion of them from their right of sitting there . and it was so contrived , that it lookt as ill upon the state as on the church . the king was not only concerned for both these , but also for himself on another account ; having his cause to be heard there , if it had been a general council . it was an injury to him all this while , that he had none , so long after his appeal to it . but now to make him amends , he had a council pack'd by his adversary ; and if that were not enough , he had this traiterous subject in the head of it . which last thing went beyond all former trials of his patience , and perhaps had been enough to have angered the meekest of princes . if it be an ill thing to have ones judge chosen by his enemy , it is worse to have his enemy be his judge . he had both in this council , as the pope had ordered it for him . therefore as he could not be canonically obliged to stand by it , so he did but use his own right , as before in protesting , so now in declaring against it . he did it on all occasions , and continued so doing till his death . his son edward vi , who reigned next , kept the pope at his distance ; and had many things reformed in the church , of which i shall not speak particularly , because , all that he did of this kind was soon after undone by his successour queen mary . she , for reasons that i mentioned i before , restored the pope's authority in this kingdom . and , though his council of trent was all her time in adjournment , so that she could not send her bishops thither , yet she had it acknowledged by them in a k synod , where cardinal pool ( being first restord in bloud ) had the honour to preside as his legate . but as to the schism between us and the roman church , both these princes were unconcerned in the original cause of it , which was ( as i have shewn ) the popes sentence concerning their fathers marriage . for edward vi. was born to him by another wife , whom he had married after katharines death . and queen mary , being his daughter by katharine , was not aggrieved by the sentence , but on the contrary held her self righted by it . the only person aggrieved was queen elizabeth , the daughter of henry viii . by anne bolen ; whose marriage the pope had l declared to be null , and pronounced any fruit that should come of it to be illegitimate . this queen being the only fruit of that marriage , the sentence was injurious to her , if to any . and whether she was wrong'd in it or no , it ought to have been tried before a lawful general council , to whose judgement her father had appealed , as has been m already shewn . and there being no such council held in his life time , the right of his appeal descended to her at his death . she was now the only party concerned in the cause , and her right could not be given from her by any other . she was as much concerned , as ever her father was , to be heard by the judge to whom he had appealed ; and to be righted against the pope , if it should appear that he had injured her ; and also against his council of trent , which abetted him in it . and she had as much reason as ever her father had , to disobey and to resist both the pope and his council , till they would suffer such a council to meet as was the only proper judge of her cause . thus far all that has been said of her father , except only in things of personal concernment , is as applicable to her . and more needs not be said , to shew that they were neither of them guilty of schism , in asserting their cause , as they did , against the adversaries of it . for therein they did no more than what they lawfully might , and ought to do , according to the principles of the western church . but there was something in her case , which was not in her fathers , and which would have cleared her of schism , though he had been guilty of it . for whereas , when he rejected the pope and his council , he was wholly of their mind in all the articles of faith then in being ; she did it , not till the council had sate , and till they had already made sundry new articles of faith. whereof the first were defined n some months before her father died . however he might like them , as they presume he did , who o tell us that he died in their faith ; yet it is certain that ( though at sometime she did not shew it , ) she did always dislike them , her enemies being judges . and as soon as she came into power , she declared , they were so far from being any part of her faith , that she took them for no other than false and novel opinions . if she mistook in so judging , which shall be considered in its place , then she was at least materially an heretic . and such he must prove her to have been that will make her a schismatick . for if she was in the right , and those doctrines were not of faith , then the schism occasioned by them must not lie at her door . it must be charged on the council who defined them , and on the pope who added them to the creed , who made the belief and profession of these doctrines , a condition without which there is no living in his communion . she did what she ought to do , in refusing to have it on those terms , in adhering to the faith once delivered to the saints , and in rejecting the authority which would have it defiled with those mixtures . what has been said may suffice to clear queen elizabeth from the imputation of schism , on any personal account , in not obeying the pope or his council . it appears that she was free from schism in that matter ; as well in foro ecclesiae , having the canonical right of an appeal against them ; as in foro conscientiae , because what she did , was to keep her faith pure from their undue impositions . whether she can be cleared as well on the account of her government in ecclesiastical matters , this we ought to consider as a thing that more immediately concerns us . for we date the reformation of our church from the beginning of her reign . and though we have a prescription since , of above a hundred years ; which is enough to secure us against the claims of the papacy , in the judgment of them that hold it to be only of humane right , as all men ought to do upon those grounds above mentioned ; yet , to them of the roman communion , it will perhaps be more satisfactory , if it appear , that beside the right that we have now from prescription , there was also an original right in our reformers to do what they did in the beginning of the reformation . the first thing they did , was to assert the queens supremacy ; from whence they proceeded to settle the church government ; and ended with the reformation of worship and doctrine . 1. first , of what she did in assuming the supremacy , more needs not be said than to make it be understood . and we cannot understand her meaning in it better than by her own declaration and practice . she p declared that she took no other power to her self , than what anciently belonged to the crown of england , that is , immediately under god to govern her people of all sorts , as well the clergy as the laity . and she exercised no other power or jurisdiction over the church than what was meerly external , as appears q by her injunctions and other acts. though if she had exercised any other power than what she claimed , it had been only an act of misgovernment in her , for which she was accountable to god ; and the church had not therefore been guilty of schism , since it r gave her no other power , nor owned her in the exercise of any other , than what is above-mentioned . and that power is so inherent in every supreme magistrate , and so necessary for the well-being of the people , that we cannot deny the right of it in them to whom we grant the supreme magistracy it self . wheresoever any prince or state have seemed to think so ill of themselves as if they were not so fit , as a foreiner was , to be trusted with this power over their own people ; or rather where they have been so obsequious to the pope as to take this flower out of their own crown and put it into the triple : it may be every where observed , that either they or their successors have found occasion , at some time or other , to call for it home again , or to use it as if they had notgiven it from themselves . we may see examples of this , in germany in ockham's days , in spain under the emperour charles v , and in venice at the time of the interdict . but especially in france ; where the gallican church is obliged to justifie this right of princes , unless she will grant that her most christian kings have been in schism , more than once , and especially , while they stood to the pragmatic sanction . but we need not go abroad for examples , having so many at home , and such as are very full to our purpose . he that will , may see them s elsewhere gathered to his hand . and i have t mentioned enough to shew that even in popish times our princes were not ignorant of their right , and that between whiles they were fain to assert it , in such terms as did import , though they did not name , a supremacy . but as their laws did not expresly mention the word , so neither did they always stand by their laws . when they had made them , the pope still found some device or other to make them ineffectual . till king henry viii . having thrown out the pope , for those reasons above mentioned ; did by u advice of his council and bishops , take both the power and the title on himself ; whether he took more than his due , let others judge . as i am not engaged to defend all that he assumed , so i need not , for so much as queen mary exercised of it . for it is agreed , ( and there was great x reason for it , ) that she was always y for the popes supremacy in her heart , ( though for fear of her life she z renounced it when time was . ) and yet she no sooner came to the crown , but she exercised the supremacy her self , in changing most a of the bishops , and reforming b what she held to be abuses in the church . afterward when she had surrendred it to the pope , yet she did not so wholly put it out of her self , but that , when he displeased her , she could c shut his legate out of her kingdom . so that to adjust the matter between the two sisters , in this point of supremacy , they seem to have differed only thus : one adjudged it to the pope , and yet took it from him when she pleased ; the other thought it belonged to the crown , and therefore kept it wholly to her self . 2. what queen elizabeth did in setling church matters , was founded on her right in the supremacy . by vertue whereof , she took upon her to reform abuses in the church , as her sister queen mary had done . and i believe that whosoever compares their proceedings , will find , that she took more leisure and advice than queen mary , in doing it . for before a parliament d sate , she had gone only thus e far , that she allowed her people some of the church offices in a language which they all understood . afterward by advice of her parliament f she restored king edwards laws , and repealed those which had been made by queen mary for ecclesiastical matters . and by those laws she abolished the popish mass , and restored the whole communion to the laity ; whereas her sister had done the contrary , g without law , by her mere right of supremacy . which right she having afterwards given away by act of parliament , ( though still she used it when she saw cause , ) queen elizabeth thought fit to have it restored by act of parliament ; ( or rather redeclared , for the act h was not operative but declarative . ) and whereas by this act it was required , that all bishops , and others that held any church-living in this kingdom , should take an oath of supremacy , as we call it , or else should be uncapable of holding any such church preferment : on refusal of this oath there were turned out thirteen bishops . i note the number , the rather , because there had been just so many of the protestant bishops turned out by queen mary . there appears to have been some difference between the turning out , of these by law , and of those without any law then in force . but there was more in the cause of their fuffering ; those being outed for matters purely religious , and these for a civil cause , for refusing an oath lawfully imposed . which oath did not truly concern their religion , even themselves being judges . for they had all , or most of them , i taken it before ; some of them had taken it many times over ; two or three of them had writ in defence of it , nay , were at the first composing of it . but there was a greater difference than either of these , if the bishops , then turned out by queen elizabeth , had been most of them canonically deprived under king edward vi , and were never since canonically restored , which may deserve a further consideration . the mean while it is certain that this act outed not k two hundred more of all the clergy in this kingdom . and their places being filled with such as had been banished in queen maries days , it is not hard to judge how all things else to be done in church matters might pass any obstruction , as they did , afterwards in full convocation . 3. as to doctrinal things , it was generally observed in those times , by the advantage of ecclesiastical learning , that in those many former ages which wanted it , many errors , and some very gross ones , had crept into the church . and those errors , having the papacy on their side , for l reasons which i have already shewn , had so far prevailed , that they were growing to be articles of faith. many of them were already defined so , and more were like to be by the council of trent . therefore now the church of england , being free from the yoke of the papacy , and having an absolute power to act for her self , thought fit to use the right of a national church , that is , to reform her self by declaring against those errors , and to rid christianity from them here in england , without taking upon her to prescribe to other churches . and withal she thought it needful to set such bounds to the reformation , that men might not , by their heats against popery , be transported so far as to run into contrary errors . for these causes that famous summary of christian doctrines , which we call the xxxix artielés , was drawn , up , and approved by m convocation . the compiling and publishing of these articles was properly the act of the church of england . and these articles being many of them opposed to those doctrines which the roman church holds to be of faith , and being either in terminis , or at least in the sense of them , the same which their trent council hath branded with heresie ; it is therefore evident that , upon the account of these doctrines , neither the queen nor church of england can be justly charged with schism , unless the doctrines themselves are first proved to be heretical , as they are judged by those decrees of the trent council . for the trial of these doctrines , they will not allow our church that resort which she would make immediately to the scriptures . and we cannot go along with the roman church whither she would have us ; that is , to the council of trent , or , which is all one to the judgment of their present church . therefore there is no possible way to end disputes , but by some known equal standard between us . and that can be no other than catholic tradition . which they of the roman side cannot well decline ; for it is that from which the council of trent has n pretended to receive all her doctrines . nor have we any cause to decline it ; for the primitive fathers , who were the original conveighers of this tradition , did profess to know no other faith than what was contained in the scriptures . why we cannot stand to the judgment of the council of trent for the trial of our doctrines , we have all the same reasons that they have in the french church , why they reject it in matters of discipline . that is , if they deny it to have the authority of a general council ; the english , though of their communion , may as well deny it to have infallibility . nay , much more this than the other . for we may give to whom we please an authority over us ; but we cannot give infallibility to any , but to them to whom god has promised it , that is , if to any council , to such a one as represents the whole diffusive church . and we have one reason more than the french have , and which signifies more than all theirs , to shew that , though they did , yet , we ought not to look upon this as such a council . for the french church was represented at trent , in some sort , though they were not at all satisfied with it ; but ours neither was represented , nor could be , ( as i have shewn , ) neither after nor before the reformation . and though ( as it is o said ) the french have since received the doctrinal decrees of that council ; that is , they have allowed them to be antecedently true , in those terms in which the council defined them , though not a whit the more true for having been defined in that council ; ours cannot pretend that here in england it ever had so much as that lowest degree of reception . before the reformation of which we now speak , that is , before the beginning of queen elizabeths reign , the council of trent had sate not much more than half its sessions . and though it was quoted with respect by the synod of p london in queen marys days , yet it does not appear that there was then any formal reception of the council . nor if there had been , could that have obliged aftercomers to receive whatsoever should pass afterward in that council ? thus much , i think , ought to be considered by them ( if there be any ) that hold themselves obliged by that synod . but much less would it have signified to our reformers , who did not hold themselves obliged by that synod . for beside that they differed in point of faith , they had other canonical objections against it : that it was composed of bishops who had been deprived ( as was said , ) in king edwards days , and had not been duly restored since , for ought that appears . and it was headed by the popes legate , in that quality , as representing him against whom they had an appeal yet in force . now to him that considers the case in these circumstances , it cannot seem reasonable , that king edwards bishops should have thought themselves obliged by the synodical act of them that sate there in their injury ; or that they , who adhered to their appeal from the pope , should be concluded by any thing that passed under his legate . since the reformation , it cannot be imagined that the council of trent should be received , here in england , by any other than by them of the roman communion . and whether they have received it , or no , they best know . but if they have , it must be their own voluntary act ; for no power whatsoever could oblige them to receive it . if any could , it must be , either the council it self , or the pope by his universal authority : but for the popes power , they understand themselves so well , that they know he cannot oblige them to the reception of a council . for he cannot bring them under what government he pleases ; i say , not without their own consent ; as they have judged , and shewed it by their practice . when he impowered an archpriest to govern them ; the seculars would not receive him . and when he would have placed a bishop over them , the regulars would not receive him . so the seculars and regulars , as it were with one consent , have given us their judgment in the case ; and that by no indeliberate act on either hand , for they contended about it a great part of the last age. and therefore , unless their principles are altered since , the same right which they exercised in not submitting to a government , they may exercise as well in not receiving a council , though the pope should presume to impose it . and that the council , of it self , has no power to oblige them , it appears in that judged case of the egyptian church . the bishops whereof would not subscribe to a decree of the q fourth general council , because they had then no archbishop to give them an authority for it . this was allowed to be a reasonable excuse , though the decree , which they were to have subscribed , was in a matter of faith. i suppose they of the roman communion , here in england , have had the same reason ever since the reformation . they have had no lawful primate , nor no declared bishops all this while . and during this imperfect state of their church , if there had been a general council , and any of their clergy had been there , they might have been excused from subscribing , though in matters of faith. what difference there is in the case , makes wholly on our side . for there is a wide difference indeed between subscribing and receiving . the first is only the declaring ones own personal assent to the decrees of any council ; the other is to give them the force of laws in the national church . and if ( according to that canon , ) the bishops , where they are in a council , are not bound to subscribe without their primate ; how much less can any national church be obliged to receive things for law without her bishops ; nay more , how can she lawfully receive them ? especially , such a church , as owns there is no jurisdiction without bishops . she cannot do it without a synod of bishops according to the ancient canons . and therefore the english church of roman catholics is so far from being bound to receive the trent council , that , in her present condition , she could not lawfully receive it . i say still , according to the ancient canons , which ought to be of some force with them of the roman communion . but let them do as they please . the case is plain , that the reformed church of england ought not to receive it , if she can prove her charge , that that council has innovated in the christian faith ; or rather unless that council can discharge her self of it , by proving that what we call her new faith , is not new , but received from catholick tradition . we think we are sure they cannot bring this tradition for those doctrines which are laid as foundations for all the rest in that council ; namely , their making unwritten tradition to be of divine authority , and therefore equal with the holy scriptures ; their bringing those which we call the apocryphal books , into the canon of scripture ; their making the vulgar latine translation authentick in all matters of faith and good life . for these , and all the rest of their doctrines of faith , as they are called in the roman church , which we call innovations and errors , we are not afraid to refer our selves to catholic tradition . if they of the roman side would submit to it as well , there would be no difference between us , in matters of faith , whatsoever there might be in opinion . and therefore they would have no cause in their own private judgment to conclude us for heretics ; much less would they find us condemned for such by any competent judicature . if they think otherwise than we do in this matter , the reason must be , because they do not mean what we do by catholic tradition . it is plain that too many of that church have a wrong notion of it ; taking that for catholic tradition , which is only presumed to be so by a party in these latter ages . for though they call themselves the catholic church , and perhaps really take themselves to be no other , yet they are but a handful to the body of christians ; especially considered in our notion of catholic , which , as we take it , extends to all the christians of all ages . we plainly profess to take the catholic tradition in that sense of vincentius lyrinensis , and before him of tertullian in his prescriptions ; who make this to be the standard of all doctrines of faith , quod semper , quod ubique , quod ab omnibus . first , that which has gone for christian faith in all ages from the beginning of christianity . secondly , which has been taken for such by the whole diffusive church , comprehending all those particular churches which have not been canonically condemned either of schism or heresie . and lastly , that which has not only been the faith of some persons , though contradicted by others , but that which has been the constant belief of the generality in all those christian churches . to bring our differences to this standard betwixt us , i conceive that , first , they of the roman communion will not find such evidence for their articles of faith , as they think of , in the primitive records . i say , such evidence as will make it appear that they were of faith , antecedently to the definitions of councils . they will find that those councils , which first defined them to be of faith , were not such against which we have no just exception , nor that their definitions have been generally received throughout the diffusive catholic church . for the primitive records , i suppose , they of the roman church , that have read them , will scarce pretend to shew how they convey all those articles to us , as of faith. and where they fail to shew this , of any article , they must excuse us if we cannot allow it to be a catholic tradition . much more , when we shew , from those records , that there are strong presumptions to the contrary . whereof , not to trouble my reader with more instances , i have given some a proof in that which bellarmine calls caput fidei , namely , in that doctrine of the popes supremacy over all christians . for the councils , by which their new articles have been defined , the most they can rationally pretend to by their definitions , is , to deliver the sense of the present diffusive church . which they are presumed to do , when they have power to represent it , or when their decrees are received in all parts of it , and not otherwise . but how few of their general councils can pretend to either of these conditions ? it appears , that the eldest of them could not , i mean b the second council of nice , which first imposed the worship of images . for , about thirty years before , there was c an eastern council held at constantinople , which condemned that very thing . and , not ten years after , there was a western council at francford , which condemned this nicene council for imposing it . neither of these councils can be said to have been less orthodox than that council was , in any point but that which they opposed . and their very opposing it shews , that , at those times , it was not the sense either of the eastern or of the western church . when that council obtained in the eastern church , yet still it was opposed by the western ; and however there also the practice crept in , yet that council has never been received in the western church , as hath been lately proved by a * most learned writer . nor has image-worship been defined by any other council , that could be said to represent both the eastern and western church . in all ages since , the councils which have defined any articles , have been but western councils at best , for , though some greek bishops were present at one or two of them , yet , what they consented to was never ratified by the greek church . and for these western councils , to give them their due , it was not so much their fault , if they lead us into error , as it is ours , if we follow them in it . for he that reads them , and knows the history of their times , will not chuse them for guides , if he has any care of that trust which god has given him of himself . he cannot but see , that , bating the three last of those councils , which have not that authority in the french church , nor with some other of that communion ; all the rest were held in times of such palpable ignorance , that when they went amiss they could not well see how to do otherwise . their bishops could not but be generally unqualified to judge of matters of faith. for they had a great want of good books , and of the languages in which they were written . i speak of those books that are now chiefly used in all questions of faith , as well by their as by our writers . and sure they that had them not to use , could not but be miserably to seek in all those parts of knowledge which are absolutely necessary for any one that should judge of those matters . namely , those without which they could not ordinarily know , neither the true sense of holy scripture , nor the judgments of councils and fathers , nor the practice of the primitive church . we find by the best of their writers in those times that they were so much to seek in those most needful things , that not a colledge in either of our universities can be said without scandal to know no more in them than one of those councils . if instead of those last we bate four other of their councils , which are disowned by the papalins , for reasons which have been already * given ; all the rest were in such bondage to the papacy , that they had not the power to do otherwise than they did . their bishops , by pope hildebrand's device , were all sworn to maintain the royalties of st. peter ; e whereof one was , that the popes faith could not fail . and being assured of that , as men should be of things which they swear , their wisest course , when matters of faith came before them , was to trust the pope's judgment , and pass every thing as he brought it to their hands . this way therefore they took , and it saved them the trouble of examination and debate , and such like conciliary proceedings . it may be worth the observing , that in seven general councils , which they reckon from the time of pope hildebrand downward , among the many doctrines which they are said to have defined , there is not one that appears to have cost them any more but the hearing . the pope had them brought and read before the council , as if that was enough to make them their acts as well as f his. and this was the constant course , till the papacy was weakened by a long and scandalous schism ; then those councils which made themselves superiour to the pope , thought fit to use their own judgment , such as it was ; and they proceeded conciliarly , as councils had done in former times . which way being more for the credit of their definitions , it was continued in those councils which restored the pope to his supremacy ; with this difference only , that whereas those seven councils above-mentioned passed all things in the lump which the pope or his ministers brought before them ; the councils since have passed them piecemeal ; with some shew of using their own judgment in every particular , though in truth with so entire a resignation to the pope , that nothing could ever pass against his interest , or his will , even when they seemed most to endeavour it . so that , in all these councils , whatsoever has passed in determining doctrines of faith , is in truth no more than a papal decree , though it bears the name , and perhaps has some shew of a councils definition . lastly , for the judgment of the diffusive church , we are not ignorant that many of the things thus imposed , ( of which we can find no mention in antiquity , and which we know were first started long after the beginnings of christianity ) yet have been received as well by greeks as by the latines in latter ages . but , not to say by what means they obtained it , we cannot forget what ages those were , in which these things came to gain such an authority among christians . they were such as learned men of the roman communion , who are acquainted with the writers of those times , ( i say as well with the greek as latine writers , ) do not at all reverence their judgments apart , whatsoever they think of them together in councils . and according to the rule prescribed by those fathers , it will not pass for the judgment of the catholic diffusive church , though both greeks and latines agree in it , and have done so for some ages together . there must be semper , as well as ubique , and ab omnibus . though the two last conditions may suffice to make us think any doctrine to be true , or at least the error in it not to be damnable ; yet to make us believe it is a doctrine of faith , there must be semper likewise , without which it is no catholic tradition . it is surely a great affront to the catholic church , and to the great author and finisher of her faith , that , as if that faith once delivered were insufficient , there must be new things added to it from time to time , by a succession of men that take upon them to be his vicars , without making out any colourable title to that office. and , though we find no such things in the ancient records of his church ; though we see these are framed to support the new authority of those vicars , and though we know how they abused the ignorance and tameness of many ages ; yet because in those ages these things were generally received , and have mellowed some time since in the faith of them that knew no better , they are pleased to use this as an argument , not only why others must be concluded and bound for ever to sit down by their judgment , who had little , and used none ; but why they must also receive all things else that are imposed in like manner , under pretence that this is now the judgment of the diffusive church . but the case is much worse , these new things being imposed on the church with a pretence of infallibility . which infallibility being a word of good sound , some that are no papalins , but hold with them in some doctrines which they cannot well prove otherwise , strike in with them at this , though the sound is all that they agree in . for whereas the papalins mean an infallibility of judgment , and place it in the virtual church ; these mean only an infallibility of tradition , and that they place in the diffusive church . they would persuade us that it is a demonstrable thing , that those things that are believed , as of faith , in this age , could never be otherwise . they may as well demonstrate , that a tale does not mend with often telling , or that no change can be made by insensible degrees . but the authors of this being censured at rome for it , we have no more to say to them ti●l they make it appear that they are of the roman church in spite of her censures . for our dispute is at present with them of the roman church ; who pretend that this infallibility is in theirs , that is the virtual church . they say that she has it by virtue of divine assistance ; which being either without or above means , it is all one as if they said she has a new revelation . and one would think that they intended no other who founded their definitions on miracles . now if they can prove that any such assistance was promised to the virtual church , and if they can prove that they are the church to which those promises were made ; or if they can prove their credentials to be the same that christ gave to his apostles ; then we must grant that we are out , in denying this infallibility . otherwise they must grant that their virtual church might be mistaken . and if she might , we have reason to think that she was so in these matters . and if it is but colourably said , that she was mistaken in matters of so very great moment , there is reason to think that those matters are fit for a review . to which the greeks may submit , and so may all other christians that differ among themselves ; but they of the roman church cannot , while they keep up their claim to infallibility . if we must ( as the roman court will have it ) be called heretics for not submitting to new revelation , we cannot help it . nor need we much trouble our selves . for we know we are no hereticks by any law divine or humane , except those which this new power has made to fence in its new doctrines . and we know they cannot , with any colour of reason from catholic tradition , think us heretics themselves , while we hold to the positive doctrines of our church . so that when they are pleased to give us this title , we can take their meaning to be only this : they declare us to be , as indeed we are , the enemies of that monarchy to which they would enthral the whole church of christ ; they do as good as tell us what we are to expect for this , if ever ( for our sins ) god should suffer us to fall into their hands ; they would have their people hate us the mean while , and avoid all communication with us , for fear they should come to know how we are wronged in this matter . this appears to be the sense and design of the interested men . and yet we doubt not there are many others among them , who either have no such interest , or who will not give themselves to be led by it . we have reason to believe this , partly from what we observe at this present , and much more from what we read of former times . of all nations that continue in the roman communion , the more any have flourished in learning and civility , the more free they have kept themselves from all that which is properly popery : while the more ignorant , and therefore more superstitious nations , are so fond of it , that , for want of this , they will scarce allow the other to be catholics . but for protestants , whom the other can endure to live among them , though perhaps in no desirable condition ; these will not allow them to live in their country , unless that may be called living , when men are buried alive in the inquisition . so it may be observed among persons of that communion . the most busie and imposing , the most fierce and untreatable bigots , are commonly they that scarce understand their own prayers . learned men either have not those heats , or else govern them better . unless they be such as are engaged to the papacy by preferment , or by the hopes of it , or by the vows of their orders ; or perhaps such as having forsaken our church , will not allow us to question either their wisdom or their honesty in it . we are not ordinarily to expect so much as common civility from such men . but they that have no particular quarrel against us , and are otherwise of a candid and ingenuous temper ; especially when they have learning with it , as not a few have , and would to god there were more in the roman church ; these men being not averse from inquiring into truth , nor from receiving it when it is brought before them , if they do not see how they can prove us heretics , and that their proof is as strong and clear as the charge is heavy , they will not think it a sufficient reason to call us so because others have done it . nor will they think fit to debar us the common right of all christians , that is , to be heard what we can say for our selves : and that either before a competent judicature , if it may be had ; or if that cannot be , yet at least by all them that will judge of us . i know no reason to doubt , that if all of them knew but so much of our church as has been said , and if they considered it with that impartiality which we ought to expect from such men , it would work some good effect in no small number of them in that communion . and that effect would appear upon such a review as i have mentioned ; i mean , that we should have right done us in a free general council , if the pope would permit it to be held in our age , or rather if all christian princes would agree to call it themselves , and not wait for his time , which will be never . but though he will not suffer this reason to be done us abroad , where it should be in a common assembly of christians ; yet he cannot hinder us from having it at home , at least in the private judgment of them that do not fear his censures . i have shewn that this is like to be the fruit of a discrimination . it will try who they are . and for them chiefly i intended this digression . in which i have been the more large , because i think it no digression , but rather the best way for the suppressing of popery in this kingdom , to get our church to be better understood by all among us of that communion . and surely , if they did rightly understand it , wise men would consider how they made themselves guilty of heresie and schism by unjustly charging us with those crimes . how of heresie , by joyning with them that have made such additions to the faith : and of schism , in charging us with heresie for not receiving those additions ; and thereupon separating themselves from our communion . they that shall be convinced of their danger in both these , will endeavour to avoid it , by relinquishing that forein power , which they can think themselves no way obliged to , if they better consider it . and finding themselves free from any such obligation , i do not see what should hinder them from joyning themselves to that national church in which god has sufficiently provided all things necessary for their salvation . though if they stay where they are , it may perhaps be better for us upon politic accounts ; which i add as my last instance of the benefit that we may expect from this discrimination . it would be no small benefit to us , if such men continuing in the roman communion would but keep the popish party from being more united , and more active against us . and thus much they would do for us , though they did not intend it . but they will do much more , and that with full intention , unless their opposition to us weigh more with them than their care of themselves . for they will find themselves obliged , if they consider it , as well in duty as interest , and no less obliged both ways then we are , to keep out the forein power from coming in among us . their obligation in conscience will be the same that ours is , and so much more if they are bound to it by oath , whatsoever the oath shall be , that is designed for their discrimination . and as to interest , it will be much more theirs than it is ours , to keep out the common enemy , that will be heavy to us both , but much heavier to them than to us . for as they are fewer in number , so they are better known in their persons , and therefore the more easie to be found out . and being found ; if ever that day should come , which god avert ; though we must look to feel rods , they are sure to be punished with scorpions . the provocation which they have given already has been more than most of us have been able to give : and when we are gone , if they continue , the roman court having no other adversaries , would be the more intent and the more able to root them out of the kingdom . i do not say this to waken them that are most concerned to think of it ; for i suppose they cannot sleep , having so great a danger before their eyes . and if they should happen to forget themselves , they would be wakened by those censures of which enough has been spoken already . it is at present more needful to make our own people ( who do not so well understand the common adversary , as not having had the same experience of him , ) to be sensible how much they are concerned not to lose any help that can be had . and therefore that it is our interest as well as theirs , to preserve such a party of useful men , and to oblige them to joyn with us against him . which can be done no other way but by a discrimination . i cannot think there is any protestant among us , who will not for these , or other the like , considerations , think fit to use the moderation here proposed , and endeavour to promote it in others as far as he is able . unless he may perhaps be discouraged by some other considerations , that may make it seem not so practicable as it were to be desired . for if it can be put in practice , i think no wise and good man , having weighed the reasons here given , will deny that it ought to be ; and that as well in prudence , as in justice , to preserve both church , and state , and whatsoever is dear to us in this nation . the things chiefly alledged against the practicableness of it , are these that follow . i shall first name them , and then consider the consequence of them . first , it is alledged that all they of the roman church are obliged by their principles to follow the judgment of the roman court : and that they actually follow it , in those very things which are popery in the proper signification . secondly , if any of them deny this , or declare and promise the contrary , we can have no assurance of what they say ; they have so many ways to elude all such promises and declarations ; especially being made to hereticks , as they are taught to call us . thirdly , though we have a sufficient assurance of any persons at present , that they are no papists , yet while they are of that communion , they are in a continual danger to be seduced , or change their minds ; and whensoever that happens , ( as it may before we are aware of it , ) they will be able to do us the more hurt , through our relying on the security which they have given us . i confess there is a force in these objections , which i cannot so well avoid , but that they who are chiefly concerned to have them answered may suspect that i use some kind of prevarication ; because i do not answer them their way , or not say all that they think their cause will bear . to secure my self against that most odious imputation ; i do in the first place declare that i shall omit nothing which i think to be material , though i do not pretend to say all they have to say for themselves . and then for their way of answering : if they think they can justifie themselves against the charge that is implied in those mentioned allegations , and that they can thereby entitle themselves as well to trust as to protection ; i confess this is more than i can do for them . and therefore i take so much lower ; endeavouring to excuse the persons as far as they are capable to be excused from those things which are not to be justified in their cause ; and since the law has excluded them from trust , for such reasons as cannot but continue as long as the established religion , i shall yet endeavour to shew that they safely may and ought to have protection , while they give such assurance of their loyalty as they are capable to give , and no otherwise . i shall do it with much the more ease , having the matter prepared to my hand in a book * that was published about two years since , to this purpose . where the objections being proved as to matter of fact , and the inferences drawn with great evidence and strength ; if i should not extract enough to satisfie the reader in either kind i shall however satisfie my self , that i have made him amends by recommending the book to him , where he may find those things said at large , and with very great accurateness , which either cannot so well be contracted , or i cannot do it here , without exceeding the brevity which i design . first , whereas all roman catholics are said to be obliged by their principles to follow the judgment of the roman court ; i find little less than demonstration for this , in a * book lately published . where it is proved that they cannot justifie their calling themselves catholics exclusively to all other christians , any otherwise than by resolving their faith into the infallibility of the roman church as united to the pope ; that is , really , into the infallibility of the pope as being head of the church . so that if he declare , as it is evident he has done , that those things which we call popery are articles of faith , they are bound ( if they will do things consequently to their principles ) either to believe him in those articles , or else to relinquish that communion . this follows by good reasoning ; though that way of proof is not so clear to a vulgar capacity , as that which is drawn from authority , and appears in plain instances of fact. but what greater instance can there be of this kind , than the practice of the whole roman church , which has actually followed the judgment of the roman court , and that in things which are properly popery ? by the whole roman church , i mean that which they call so themselves ; that is , the governing part of the clergy of all the churches of that communion ; that part which acts for all the rest in ecclesiastical matters , and by whose acts all their subjects are obliged according to their own principles . now taking popery ( as i have a defined it ) to be the owning of the pope's pretended authority ; whether in spirituals , over the universal church , or in temporals , over all princes and states ; it hath been proved that this roman church owns this doctrine in both the branches of it . first , in spirituals , there can be no question of this . for none can be of the governing clergy without taking an oath , in which they own the pope's authority with a witness . for they swear fealty to him , and that in those terms which import as well a temporal as a spiritual subjection . no doubt that was hildebrand's sense that made the a oath , and it is most agreeable to the principles and practices of them that impose it . but this i leave to temporal princes and states , and especially to protestants , who are chiefly concerned , to consider it . let the oath be for spirituals only , it is enough to prove the churches subjection to the pope ; because , in that sense at least , it is taken by all the governing clergy . and for the rest , there is a c form of profession , by which they are sworn to him every one in his person , for fear they should not think themselves obliged by the oaths of their superiors . if among them that are the guides of conscience to others , there be any that makes no conscience of an oath ; yet such a one will go which way his interest leads him . and the pope has them all secured to him by interest likewise . not to speak of those ways that his interests are theirs , nor of other ways that he has to oblige them ; it is enough that he is so far patron of the whole church , that none can have a bishoprick , or any other eminent dignity , but he must either take it of the pope's gift , or at least he must come to him for confirmation . having two such sure holds , on the bodies , and on the souls , of his clergy ; the pope is not only in present possession of a spiritual monarchy over the whole roman church , but he is ( as much as it is possible for him to be ) assured that none shall ever be able to take it out of his hands . unless the princes of his communion should come to find their interest in a reformation , which is rather to be wisht for than to be expected in our age ; otherwise , there is nothing that can dispossess him , but a general council . and that indeed he has some cause to apprehend upon the experience of former times . it is remembred by others too often for the pope to forget it , how such a council , d when time was , humbled two or three of his predecessors . but then they that were for the liberty of the church , had not only the diffusive church on their side , but they had a good party among the cardinals themselves . especially they had the papacy at an advantage , being to judge whose it was , among them that pretended to it . they had also the times very favourable to to them , in other circumstances , which i shall not mention , because they are not like to come again . and yet then , what ground they got from popes of disputable titles , they lost afterward to those whose titles were certain . they left free declarations and laws for future times , which might do good , if there were men to put life in them . but withal they left a certain experiment , to shew us , that that good cannot be done by men who are so engaged to the papacy . interest of it self were enough to give the pope a majority of bishops in any council where conscience did not bear too much sway . it was observed by one e that writ for the authority of those councils ; that they could never keep up their side , for this reason , because the pope had the disposing of all the livings . but how much greater must his party be , when all the bishops are bound in conscience likewise , as far as an oath can oblige them , to support the popes spiritual monarchy ? it is hard for men to think that such an oath does not bind them , as well when they are together , as severally . we see the pope so well understood this , that when f it was proposed during the council of trent , that , to make it a free council , he should dispense with the oaths of all the bishops that sate there ; his legates declared that they would rather die than consent to it . i suppose they would not have been so much concerned for that which they had not found to be of very great use in their business . and we see the effect of it . for all the bishops there present , though it was against many of their wills , yet suffered the council to be prorogued , and translated , and rid about how and when the pope pleased , till he had done with them , that is , till they had g made it unnecessary for him ever to have another council . but as safe as he has made himself , in case there should be a general council ; it cannot be denied , that it is safer for him to have none . and therefore presuming there shall be none for the future , as we may judge by the experience of the last hundred years ; we come now to consider what his power is in the intervals of councils . during these , it is acknowledged by the whole roman church , and that as well by the laity as the clergy , that the pope has the supreme authority over all christians . which being another kind of supremacy than we are used to , we are to learn what it is from them that live under it . what they say and write of it , is not the sense of the church , as that is which they swear in those forms before-mentioned . and yet their oaths being in general terms , we cannot so throughly know it from them , as from particular instances of the exercise of it . i suppose they may be said to give him that power , which he exercises every where without let or contradiction . and to name only such instances , there are two which more particularly concern us , and which make him no less than some call him , that is , the virtual church . first , he takes upon himself , and they allow him , to be the only supreme judge of fact in ecclesiastical matters . so that whomsoever he has judged to be heretics , ( of what rank soever they are , kings not excepted , ) they are subject to all canonical punishments , and are avoided as if they were such indeed as he judges them . and as he does not trouble himself to call a council , and to take their sense of the matter before he judges ; so neither , if he judge amiss , are the injured parties relievable by appeal to any other judge whatsoever . if any question this , they do ill to call us heretics ; who were never condemned by any council , at least , not by any that pretended to represent the universal church . it was indeed moved at the council of trent , that they should have declared against queen elizabeth , and it is said h that they forbore to do it for politic reasons . but when the pope i saw his time to declare , it did as well : for , though by the same bull he deprived her of her kingdom , all her subjects of that church broke communion with her , even they that disobeyed the sentence of deprivation . since her time it does not appear that we are under any sentence , but the popes yearly curse on maundy thursday ; and yet that is enough to continue the breach of communion . nay , when henry viii . was condemned by the pope only , and judged a heretic for no other cause but disobedience to him ; though he had a just and lawful appeal then depending , yet then the popes sentence was obeyed , and he was treated as a heretic by all those of the roman communion . if this be not owning the pope to have an absolute authority , yet at least it is no small priviledge , that they allow him , to let in and shut out of their church whom he pleases . but he claims a higher priviledge than this ; that is , to be judge also of doctrines , to define what shall be faith or heresie . this he actually does . and the church so far abets him in it , that if private persons seem to question his judgment , ( as some did when he condemned the iansenists propositions , ) they are punisht for it as rebels to the church . now being in possession of this power to judge of doctrines , what security can they have that he will not employ it to advance his own secular interests under the specious pretence of christian faith ? if he please to make it of faith that all men must obey him , even in temporal things ; this is done already in a k decretal epistle if there be any coherence between the two ends of it . if he should think fit to call it the l henrician heresie , for any one to hold that kings may be obeyed notwithstanding his censures : if he call it the heresie of the m politici for any one to deny the exemption of the clergy from secular courts ; or the heresie of n simon magus , to hold that lay men may lawfully present to church livings : there is nothing new in all this , and therefore he may colourably do it . nay , we have reason to believe he will do it , whensoever he thinks he may do it safely . and that will be , when he is no more in awe of the french monarchy , than he was of the english when he censured the irish remonstrance . it may concern more than protestants to consider this . for no man knows how soon the pope may be concerned either to have him condemned for a heretic , or to make something that he holds go for heresie . and either of these things being done , there is no doubt but that the popes act must be owned by the roman church , in consequence to to their now mentioned principles . for all this is no other than the exercise of that power which they give him in spiritual things . whether they allow him to have the like power in temporals , is the question which we are next to consider . and that they do allow it him , will appear by all the means that we have to know the sense of that church . first , their church virtual , that is , the pope himself , has o declared it again and again ; and that with all the solemnities required by themselves to his decreeing ex cathedra . there never was any pope that disowned it , nor any that owned that notion of the virtual church . their church representative has declared it in divers councils , of which one or other is owned to be general by all them of the roman communion . whereas many require the the popes confirmation of councils to make them general , there is no doubt but such p councils , so confirmed , have declared it . for those that do not hold any necessity of the popes confirmation , those very q councils , which they abet in not holding it necessary , have not only declared this , but they have taken it for a foundation , which in reason should be much more than a definition . they supposed it as a thing out of controversie , and made sundry acts in pursuance of it . their catholic church diffusive has own'd it , by receiving and approving of some councils of both sorts ; so as that whosoever has rejected the councils of one sort , has received those of the other . they own it likewise in such practices , as must be catholic according to their principles . if any practice be catholic , what can be more properly so , than that which is the first commandment of their church ? namely , to keep her festivals , to hear mass , to joyn in offices of the church ? this they do in the memory , and with solemn invocation of them as glorified saints ; who not only ( while they lived ) were abettors of this doctrine , but who were sainted for this reason , because they abetted it . such were r anselm , and s becket ; of whom i need say no more than shew the reader where he may find a very full demonstration of this . but among the many more that i might add of this sort , i shall name only two that deserve more than ordinary notice . namely , hildebrand , the first author of this doctrine ; and pius quintus , who was the first that practised it on queen elizabeth of blessed memory . this last mentioned pope being newly canonized , i suppose , to let us know here in england what we are to expect when time serves . i do not see how they who suffer themselves to be imposed on in this manner , and who fulfil the design of the imposers , in owning such men for saints , can rationally avoid the owning of their principles . and if the doing these things obliges any to own these principles , it has the same force throughout their whole diffusive church . it is not so easie to answer the force of these arguments as it is to produce instances on the contrary ; of them that have written against this doctrine ; especially in france , where it is said to be disowned by a national church . but their writings , and her declarations , will stand us in no stead upon their principles , who expresly except the case of heresie ; as cardinal perron says they all did , and instances in the most eminent of them who defended the rights of princes against popes before the reformation . for i think it will not be doubted that all the writers of that communion , ( even those of the gallican church not excepted ) look upon us as heretics . but besides the french church has been so far from disowning this doctrine , that they have publicly declared for it , and that no longer since than in our fathers days . it cannot yet be forgotten how the body of their clergy , as representing the gallican church , by the mouth of their speaker cardinal perron declared themselves in that famous harangue , which was printed there with royal priviledge , and sent over hither to king * iames , that he might not be ignorant of their sense in this matter . and they declared it not only to be the present sense of their church , but the same that it had constantly been , from the first opening of her divinity schools till calvins time . they shew too much desire to have the french church on their side , that confront these great testimonies , with acts of state , or declarations of universities , or with writings of private men : when they cannot but know , that , according to their principles , neither private men , nor parliaments , nor universities , can pretend to be the gallican church in any case , where they differ from the ecclesiastics . but whereas cardinal perron there says , that all they who writ for the rights of princes against the pope in those times before the reformation , did nevertheless hold that the pope might depose any prince that should be guilty of heresie : though i do not engage to make good his assertion in the utmost extent of it , because it is hard to know the mind of every writer in that controversie ; yet i think it is not hard to shew as many kings who have declared their judgment on his side , as there can be produced of those writers to the contrary . and it is no small proof of the authority of any doctrine , when it is acknowledged by them , who would have been most obliged by their interest to have denied it , if their consciences would have given them leave . for examples of this , we cannot go higher than to the emperour henry iv. whos 's very troublesom times gave occasion to hildebrand to bring this doctrine first into the world . and it is very observable , that in the infancy of it , he that was so unfortunate to be made the first instance of the cursed effects of this doctrine ; though he denied the popes power over him in all other respects , yet he t owned it in this of heresie , which is worth all the rest put together . perhaps he thought it did not concern him , at first , so much as he found it did afterwards . for having granted that the pope might depose him in case of heresie , it was enough ; then the pope knew what he had to do . it was only to make a new heresie of something which he would not or could not deny ; and then how easie was it to take away his crown as being forfeited by his own confession ? another example of this we have in the emperour frederic ii. who being in no very good terms with the pope , thought to get into favour by shewing his zeal against heresie . and he shewed it sufficiently , by giving the force of a temporal u law to that canon of their general council of lateran ; by which every heretic is made to forfeit his estate , as well they that have no chief lord over them , as others of inferiour rank and condition . in consequence of this , when the pope saw occasion to take away his crown , and wanted only some good colour for it ; among other crimes with which he charged him , this was one , that he was guilty of heresie : which appeared , as the pope was pleased to say , by no doubtful and light , but by evident arguments ; for that it was manifest enough that he had run into many perjuries : these are the very words of the x sentence . by which also it sufficiently appears , that not only error in doctrine , but even vice or misgovernment may suffice to make a heretic , when a prince's being so will forfeit his crown to the pope . but as humane nature is , and in a fortune so liable to temptation , how hard a thing it is for any prince to escape this charge ? while the pope is allowed to be judge , as well who is guilty of the fact , as what fact shall amount to a heresie . for he may as groundlesly judge one guilty of perjury , as he did in that instance judge that guilt to be heresie : and yet both these judgments so inseparably belong to the same jurisdiction , that they who grant him either of them , ought in reason to grant him both ; as we have shewn they do , according to the principles of the roman church . and whereas it is alleaged , that some national councils have declared for the independent right of kings ; though none ever did so , but they are y branded for it , at least , in all the later editions of the councils ; yet of these it is observable , that they never supposed the case of heresie , in which there is no reason to doubt that they went with the stream of the roman church . it is more observable that , bating that case , the rights of princes against the pope were scarce ever maintained by any council of any nation or province but those who were under the aw of princes . and even of them , very many have recanted , as soon as they found themselves at liberty to do it ; and that conscientiously , as we have reason to believe . but on the other side , the most conscientious persons of that communion have stood their ground in the most disadvantagious circumstances . they have stuck to it , and maintained it , and never recanted their doctrine ; howsoever they might have some remorse at some of those horrid practices into which they were led by it . now by the principles of that communion , whatsoever has been the sense of their church , can never cease to be so on further trial , but must be the churches doctrine for ever . they who defend infallibility of judgment cannot avoid this . nor they who hold infallibility of tradition : since they teach , that , whatsoever has once prevailed , and that universally over all churches , and specially over all conscientious persons ; could never prevail so , unless it had been delivered from the beginning . but of this doctrine it has been proved , that it was in the church before those councils above mentioned , and was either declared or supposed by those general councils , therefore it must have been from catholic tradition . and therefore , according to their principles , it ought not to be called to a review ; much less be disbelieved , or disputed , by any in this present age , whatsoever advantage it may have , above those former ages , in point of learning and monuments , for the discerning of catholic tradition . what has been said is sufficient to make it appear , that all they of the roman church , by the principles of their communion , are obliged to maintain these doctrines of popery . whence it will follow , that as long as they are true to those principles , we cannot be secure that they will not practise those doctrines . therefore all the reason we can have to believe that they will do us no hurt , if they are truly conscientious persons , is only this ; that we may hope they do not yet know their churches sense in this matter . at present they do not see the repugnancy between their duty to princes , and the principles of their communion . but this will only secure us so long as they do not see it ; and that may be a very little while . for as the proofs of this inconsistency are great , and notorious ; so they are ready to be objected to them by their adversaries in their own communion . and therefore we can have little security of them , if we can have none any longer than while we may suppose them likely to continue in this ignorance . so that the only solid and lasting reason that we have , or can have to hope well of the loyalty of any such consciencious persons among them , must be the assurance that we have of their firmer adherence to their duty to king and country than to the principles of their communion . of these persons we may be secured , whilest they are ignorant of that inconsistence , because , if they are truly such as we take them to be , they cannot but think themselves bound in conscience to deal fairly and uprightly with us . and when the papalins , who will still be practising upon them , shall have brought them to discern that inconsistency ; the effect of it may be better than they intend . for we have reason to hope that such persons will be so far from quitting their duty for their communion , that they may be rather induced to leave their communion ; when they shall be convinced that it is not possible to maintain it without complying with those doctrines which they have in so great detestation . and these hopes of the good effect of this countenance to them above others , and of the consequent jealousie of those others of their own communion , may be a farther encouragement to zealous protestants , to fhew them this countenance ; not only in regard of the security which such as these may give to the state , but also in regard of the hopes , that , in process of these disputes among themselves , they may at last by the wisdom of god be won over to the protestant communion . and concerning these persons for whom the favour of the laws is desired , we have reason to believe that many of them do really adhere more firmly to the sense of their duty to their country , than to that of continuing in the roman communion . many of them are such as have given good proof of it already , of which instances might be produced , if it were necessary . but to wave all historical inquiries in this place ; if the state desire satisfaction herein , it may be had by the form which shall be tendred to them . by which they may profess that they do in conscience believe themselves more obliged to pay their duty to their prince and country , than to stand to the authoritative decision of any judge whatsoever that is owned in the church of that communion . the second thing objected against that discrimination here proposed , is this , which were considerable enough of it self , but much more being added to the other . it is said , that we can have no assurance of any engagement they make to us , they have so many ways to elude the force of it ; what by equivocation , and mental reservation , what by popes dispensations , by their doctrine of probability , and the rest . there are so many of them , that , considered one after another , they look like a contrivance to destroy all faith among men . for when we think our selves assured by their promise , and especially , when confirmed with an oath ; yet , by equivocation , that oath , in their sense , shall signifie quite otherwise than was meant by them that made or imposed it . if they do not equivocate , yet they may have some mental reservation ; saying inwardly not , or something else that quite alters the meaning of what is spoken . and if they swear without either of these tricks ; yet they may believe the pope can dispense with that oath , or he can absolve them when they have taken it . and though the pope should not do this , yet their church * hath given them the president of breaking faith with known heretics . and if they make conscience of that ; yet it may be some doctors opinion , that there is something unlawful in this oath , which though they did not discover before , and therefore took it , yet having discovered this after , they may think themselves not obliged by it . and though they should not be of this doctors opinion , yet that extrinsic probability of this doctors authority may be enough to sway them against their own convictions to the contrary . the probability that there is of their holding all these opinions , as having been held by doctors of reputation among them , and none of them ever censured for it by the church , ( though she hath taken all possible care to censure all such opinions as may be any way contrary either to her judgment or interest ) this presumption is sufficient to persuade private persons , that their church , though perhaps she may not believe them true , yet believeth them not hurtful or dangerous to her children . and if a doctrine hath no danger in it , though it prove to be false , yet the security of it is inducement enough for men to practise it . these principles will the rather hold , because according to their other principles , they are taught to relie on the judgment of their church in matters of belief even where they cannot do it without renouncing their own judgment . and in this objection , it is very considerable , that it is not so easie as it was in the former , to distinguish who they are that do indeed hold these dangerous principles . only we have reason to suspect all them that keep to that communion upon principles of conscience . for they must think themselves bound in conscience to hold these principles to be practicable , because they are so , according to the principles of their communion . and they who are once suspected upon prudent grounds , can neither clear themselves , nor satisfie us , by any form of profession they can make . because we must still suspect , that such persons do prevaricate , even in those forms by which they seem to renounce prevarication . this objection hath been made , and it is not without visible cause . now in answer to this , it cannot be denied but that many of them have maintained such principles of this kind as would destroy all possible trust in dealing with them . and if they had stood to these principles in their actions , this would have given us cause to suspect all the rest of their communion , while they continue in it . but whatsoever they say in their disputes , we have reason to judge of their belief , by what they shew of it when they come to the trial of action . and thus , even the papalins themselves have not ventured to act upon these principles , even where they could have nothing to hinder them from it , but convictions of conscience . they who have died rather than they would take that oath , which according to these principles they might have taken , and prevaricated in it , have plainly shewn , that even they durst not trust their own subtilties when they came to be practised . nay , the pope himself , who hath forbidden them to take these oaths , and hath animated them to be martyrs rather than take them , would not have exposed his dearest friends to such extreme hazards , if in earnest he himself could have approved the practising of these principles . the utmost therefore that we may fear in dealing with them seems only this ; that , whilst they renounce one form of prevarication , they may make use of another . if they renounce equivocation ; they may at the same time , believe themselves obliged not to equivocate , and yet not renounce the belief of the popes authority to dispense with their oath , if that be not expresly contained in the form. but we have no reason to believe , that men of such politics as the court of rome are known to be , can possibly , when they come to practise , own fuch principles , as are like to prove so prejudicial to their own interest . or if they should be overseen so far as to do this , yet the mischief that would follow upon it being likely to prove more dangerous to themselves than to us , we have no reason to fear running the hazard of it . for if there are any that believe that they may prevaricate in the very same form of prevarication which they renounce ; how is it possible that the roman court it self can be assured of such persons ? that court it self hath found by experience , that it hath had many real enemies , that still pretended to live in its communion . how can they be assured but that many of these , who pretend to be their servants and subjects , may prove to be their dangerous enemies ? if in earnest they may prevaricate , even coram iudice , in a thing not belonging to his jurisdiction ; how can the court secure themselves , that persons persuaded of the injustice of the popes claim to a power in temporal things upon any pretence whatsoever ; may not prevaricate with him , since they believe that these matters belong not to his jurisdiction ? how can they secure themselves , but that multitudes of such persons , may , therefore , still keep to their communion ; purposely to form intrigues against them , which they could not do , if they were out of it ? it is certain that not only the papalins have owned these doctrines , but even those who have been the greatest adversaries of the papacy among themselves . particularly , the council of constance is that which gave authority to the doctrine of breaking faith with known heretics . and according to the definition of that same council , the a pope himself , and all they who challenge for him the supremacy over councils , are heretics for doing so . and therefore , why may they not break faith with him as well as with any other heretic ? this is a just reason for him to suspect , and they who are once suspected can give him no assurance by these principles . since therefore the belief of this liberty of using reflexive prevarication , is neither for the interest , nor agreeable to the practice of the roman court it self ; and since the danger that may follow in the trust of it must be more theirs than ours , for it destroys the faith of all whom they have to employ either to defend themselves or to prejudice us ; we have reason to believe that forms , whereby they renounce prevarication , may oblige them to bar themselves the use of those prevarications which they do therein expresly renounce . so that for giving us compleat security , nothing more can be desired but that the forms to be tendred to them may take in all the cases wherein any celebrated doctors among them do allow them this liberty of prevaricating . and therefore the drawing up of this test would be more properly a work of divines than of statesmen ; and more particularly , of such divines as have been most conversant in the casuists of the roman church . if this will not suffice , how is it possible that even protestants , who are once suspected of inclining to popery , can ever purge themselves of this imputation ? we have had too many instances of unjust accusations of this kind . it hath been generally the fate of them who have been most zealous for the church of england , or for any thing of order and discipline in it , to have been thus represented to the people by men who have desired to make them odious . and the mischief which must follow upon this distrust among our selves , even of those who are our most zealous patriots , and therefore most eminently capable of doing service , is a mischief much greater than we can fear from any thing that can follow on such a trust of the romanists as have been here described . it will make us uncapable of driving on any great design , either for our own defence , or to defeat their machinations against us . and therefore it must be much more mischievous to us , than any hurt we can suffer from those of the roman communion , especially from those who desire , not our trust , but protection . if it be farther suspected , that , when they have taken all the tests that can be given them , still their minds may alter after all this ; and that so long as their priests are near them , and have their ear , we have too just reason to suspect that they may actually change . it will be easie to reply , that a change may be possible , when all diligence hath been used to the contrary . but we have no reason to believe it probable , of them who , by a test that hath been before propounded , shall profess themselves more obliged to theirduty to king and country than to any judgment or interest of their church to the contrary . for whosoever they are that are ready to oppose the judgment of their church it self , if she should declare any thing contrary to their duty ; it cannot in reason be supposed , that they should be so far influenced by a priest , as to do that for his sake , which they would not do in obedience to the church . but if yet it be farther suspected , that their priests may be enabled to work such a change in their penitents by their intimacy and assiduity with them , and by that reverence that is usually born to their persons , which , being alway present with them , may perhaps prevail more than the dumb definitions of the church . yet this danger the state may very easily remedy , and will do it by the making of a just and prudent discrimination . for that being to be made by such a test as the state shall require , no other priests will be allowed , but only such as have taken it . and the test being made with such a clause as hath been proposed , the priests that take it will be upon the same terms with their laity ; and will be equally obliged in behalf of the state , to oppose any pretence that can be brought by any person or power whatsoever to draw them from their allegiance . and if there be any fear of practices against the state by them that , having taken the test , have been secretly changed by some means against which no provision is made ; the danger of this also may be prevented , as far as any thing may be done by obligations of conscience . not to say that their interest will oblige them likewise in great measure . it may be done by a frequent repetition of this test , which may discover any change in some short time after it is made ; and so may give an early stop to any practices which might follow upon it . the priests also may be obliged by their oath to declare the independent right of kings in their sermons , as expresly , and as oft , as the state shall prescribe . and it may be so ordained that they shall continue in their charge no longer than while they can bring sufficient testimony that they have done it . these expedients will suffice in all likelihood to prevent the defection of them who have given security to the state , or at least will secure it in time from receiving any dangerous hurt by their defection . conclvsion . to conclude all with a brief summary of what i conceive advisable in this whole affair . i think it is not so proper to make the distinction between regulars and seculars . because many seculars are more addicted to these principles than many of the regulars ; and some of the regulars have declared against these principles , and suffered for it more than any seculars in our age . besides that it may seem very partial to prejudge men by their ranks , when they may distinguish themselves sufficiently otherwise . yet withal , whereas there are divers of those regular orders , that were never received in england , even by the romanists themselves ; and who have here intruded themselves as well against their own c canons as against the known laws of the land ; it is but reasonable that we should take that advantage against them , which not only our laws , but even their own canons will allow . especially where we have reason in other regards to suspect them above others of being active and industrious in driving on dangerous defigns . and this advantage may be taken against d three eminent orders among them ; which have been founded since the reformation , and were never canonically received here in england , and yet are as active as any other in designs for the advancing of popery . for the rest who are not thought fit to be totally excluded , the most equal way for them , and as secure a way for us , to distinguish them ; is to do it by such a test as has been more than once before mentioned . that this is a safe way may appear from what hath been already shewn ; that even the high papalins themselves cannot prevaricate in renouncing prevarication , and therefore may be capable of giving assurance to the state by submission to tests , if they are known to be consciencious otherwise . but antecedently to any test , for some of them , it would be requisite , that they should first renounce their former oaths and obligations ; or explain them so as to secure us that they will not be induced by them to any dangerous practice against the state. those of them , as their bishops and others , who have taken oaths to the pope , as they are prescribed by their pontifical ; either to explain them , if they can possibly do it , so that we may be satisfied of their innocency ; or to retract them , where they will not admit of such an explication . and here also it ought to be considered what oaths are taken by those proselytes whom they gain into the roman communion . when this is done , and not till then , they may be capable of being admitted to take the test. which ought in reason to contain all that which the law hath already prescribed , as being that which the wisdom of our law-makers have judged fit and sutable to their condition . it is not reasonable for them to expect that any of those trials should be waved which have been made even since the reformation ; as long as the same reason continues which prevailed with our legislators to prescribe them . but if they were to make a test for themselves , i do not see how they can with any confidence decline those professions which were made by their ancestors before the reformation . they have so frequently boasted of them , and alledge them as arguments of the consistence of their religion with their loyalty . and therefore it were fit that the test should take in all those doctrines concerning the rights of kings which are contained or supposed in the ancient laws . especially in those which themselves have produced for the honour of their communion ; as namely , the assize of clarendon , the statutes of provisors and premunire . these they cannot with any confidence refuse , if they will but pretend to deal ingenuously , and to let us see that they have been in earnest in those elogies which they have given their predecessors for making them . beside the forementioned particulars , it were also needful for our satisfaction , that they would profess themselves so far convinced in conscience of their obligation to their prince and country , that no ecclesiastical judge or judicatory whatsoever shall be able to draw them either from the belief , or from the practice of their duty . this will fully secure us of their loyalty , if they deal sincerely in it . and for satisfying us of their sincerity , it hath already been advised , to renounce all their pretences to dissimulation . and great care should be taken that no doctrine be left out of this test , which would leave them any liberty of this kind , in the judgment of any celebrated or uncensured casuist in their church . this will be not only a sufficient , but also a just ground to distinguish between them . for when a test being thus contrived shall be prescribed by authority , it will then appear that none are like to suffer the severity of the laws but they who either are truly criminal , or are justly suspected of being so , even for their refusing of such a test. and then that due severity which may be thought necessary to preserve the state from their practising against it , may be executed on them with less colour of exception to the penalties . they who have extolled the loyalty of their forefathers , in making those laws already mentioned , cannot except against the penalties mentioned in those laws . they cannot pretend that there was any other cause of severity , in them , but their care for the security of the public ; for they were otherwise of their own communion , and therefore could not be liable to any suspition of that rigour against them , of which they may suspect us in regard of our differences of communion . for other penalties , i say no more , but leave them to the wisdom of the state ; who best know that due measure of severity that is requisite in our present circumstances . for as their case may in some reasons vary from the condition of them against whom those laws were made ; so it is fit that their punishments should do so too , whether their case be more excusable now or then , that also i do not take upon me to determine . for them who will take the test so contrived , and that as oft as the state shall require ; it were fit that such favour be shewn to them as may consist with the safety of the state. and all the favour which themselves have desired , is their exemption from sanguinary laws , and protection against their popish adversaries , and permission to live in their country , upon the same terms as other dissenters do , who are as innocent as themselves will be upon this supposal . as for places of trust , they do not pretend to them . which may be a security against all reasonable jealousies . for other laws which have been made against the forein education of their children ; they will not then have the pretence of any necessity for it , when they may have them taught at home , by persons well affected to the state , and yet otherwise of their own religion . and they will have no excuse , if they do it without any necessity . so that they cannot object against any determination that the state shall think fit to make in that particular ; whether the laws now in force shall be continued , or changed , and if continued , under whatsoever conditions and penalties it should be done . and if it be thought fit to impose on them such small pecuniary penalties as may only oblige them in interest to endeavour the farther satisfaction of their conscience ; it might be convenient that those sums were applied to maintain converts to the church , and to reward them that shall inform the state how these things are observed among them . this will be likely to keep up the practice of these laws , when they cannot be secured from discoverers among themselves . and may also be a means by degrees to reduce them to the communion of the church in order to the capacitating of them for farther favours . thus much was in prudence necessary to be said , to shew as well the practicableness , as the convenience of this proposal . the convenience has appeared in the discourse it self , and the practicableness in the answer to the objections . for other more particular expedients i leave them to the prudence of the state ; whose most proper office it is , and who are best acquainted with all particular circumstances to determine . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a48816-e110 a p. 44. these ten years . p. 50. march was twelve month . p. 66 m. luzance 's case . b chiefly from p. 80. till the conclusion . notes for div a48816-e1900 all churches and sects are popish according to some mens notions of popery . no rites nor doctrines common to other churches , which are not in communion with the pope , can be popish , but in a false notion of the word . the true notion of popery describ'd . of the pope's authority over all christians . this authority was the first thing in popery . all other popish errours were brought in by it . this authority is the chief thing in popery . a poli. reformatio angliae decr . 1. b ib. decr . 2. c conc. lateran . v. sess. 2. d sess. 3. e sess. 4. f sess. 11. g conc. trident. sess. 25. decr . de reform . c. 21. h ib. c. 2. i ib. in contin . decr . 5. obedience to this authority the only sure property of roman catholicks . camd. eliz. anno 1560. it is also the worst thing in popery . * martyrolog . roman . maii 25. * rev. 13.5 . * luke 4.6 . it is worst in the construction of the law. camd. eliz. anno 1571. ib. anno 1577. ib. anno 1581. * rishton says it of himself in his virulent cont. of sand. de schism angl. papist , an equivocal word . improperly papists . * r. c. ( i. e. ) ricardus chalcedonensis , alias , dr. smith , the last roman catholick bishop that pretended jurisdiction here in england , was of this mind , as appears by his book against the bishop of derry , entituled , a brief survey , &c. vid. cap. 5. p. 55. where he says , 't is no point of faith , whether the pope be st. peter's succeffor iur● divino , or humano . half-papists . throrough-papists . their description . zenzelini glossa ; dominus deus noster papa . vid. glos. extravag . cum inter de verb. signif . edit . paris , an. 1585. the main argument . undistinguishing severity is not the way to suppress popery . it would be ineffectual . 2. it would not seem just and equitable . it is so expresly provided in 27 eliz. for fthe oath of supremacy , and 3 iac. for the oath of allegiance . justitia britannica 8 o. lond. 1584. and k. iames works . p. 252. & 336. and k. charles i. vol. 1. p. 384. * 1666 iun. 11. v. hist. of irish remonstrance , part 2. page 671. * dated 1533. aug. 30. camden . eliz. an . 1592. ibid. an . 1602. pag. 276. * he writ his books in the name of widdrington . the pope and his party are against the distinguishing of roman catholicks . * pref. of his book against fitz herbert the jesuite . * father fitz herbert . hist. of the irish remons . part 1. p. 515. two ways useful to the pope's design against england . i. an undistinguishing execution of the laws agai●st popery . ii. toleration . toleration is a way to destroy the establish'd religion . toleration would weaken the civil government . v. dr. baily's life of b. fisher , about the end of it . a toleration would increase the number of papists . the true way to suppress popery , is by severity to papists , and clemency to other roman catholicks . john 16.2 . 1 pet. 2.14 . prov. 14.34 . isa. 28.19 . euseb. hist. eccl. v. 24. vales. in locum . firmilians epistle among cyprian's , epist. 75. pag. 166. edit . rigaltii . cypr. epist. 74. & 75. vide rigalt . in cyprian , epist. 75. iuly 28. and august 2. * cyprian , ep. 74. & 75. † rigalt . obs. in ep. 75. * almost 22 years after the reign of alexander severus . cyprian , epist. 75. p. 160. * in their synodical epist. * see in the codex , canonum universalis ecclesiae , or in the councils ; concil . nicen. i. can . 6. concil . constant. i. can . 2. concil . ephes. i. can . 8. conc. chalced. can . 28. together with act. 16. of that council . concil . afric . can . 31. in the greek , or 72. and 92. in the latin. epist. ad coelestinum , which is at the end of that council . † the western and eastern bishops together , were 170. saith st. athamasius , ( who was one of them ) adsolit . vitam agen●es . tom. 1.818 . of the eastern , 73 declared against the western bishops . hilar. fragm . p. 448. and some were neuters . * by his novel , dated an. 445. iune 6. vid. leo i. epist. 89. * there were no brittish bishops at the council of sardica ; as appears by the inscription of the synodical epistle , athan. tom. 1. p. 756. and by the subscriptions , both of the synodical epistle , hilar. fragm . col . 408. and of the canons in the edition of isidorus mercator . though the brittish bishops or some of them did afterwards approve of the councils judgment in the case of st. athanasius . ath. tom. 1. p. 720. ( where note , the translation is false . ) and as for that law of valentinian iii. it was not made till after britain was forsaken by the romans ; which was theodosii 18 ( or anno 440. ) saith prosper pithaei ; anno 443. saith the saxon chron. theodosii 23. ( or anno 455. ) saith beda , hist. l. 13. * page 4 , 5 , &c. 2. cor. 10.8 . james 3.15 . from king stephen to hen. iii. pisa , constance , siena , and basil . greg. xii . and bennet xiii . and iohn xxiii . * concil . const. sess. 39. aux . part i. 28 and ult . and 11 , 14 , 21. theod. de niem . nemoris , part . 6. c. 10. ioh. marius de schism . & conc. 1.19 , & 24. a the. cromwel . herbert . p. 173 , 174. b dr. lee and tregonion . fox . p. 119. dr. london . fox p. 897 , and 1104 , &c. c b. gardiner . b. bonner , &c. d camden , eliz. p. 26. e sand. de schism . p. 103. b. ed. 1585. cressy pref. to exom . a labbe chron. an. 1528. b l. herbert in henry viii . c 1502 ending . d l. herbert . ib. e ibid. f 1505. iune 27. ibid. page 249. g 1509. iune 3. pol. virgil. h sand. de sch. page 9. who makes 1526. the first year of the divorce . * sand. ib. & pallavicino . i hist. conc. trent ii. 15.5 . sand. ib. p. 10. * 1527. the second year . i l. herbert . † sand. ibid. k 1527. septem . l. herbert . l from the bishop of tarbe's speech before the council . sand. de schism . page 10. m pallav. hist. conc. trid. ii. 15.9 . n sand. de schism . p. 27. l. herb. p. 233. o guicciard . hist. ital. l. 19. camd. eliz. p. 3. p 1528. ian. 13. letter of casalis in l. herbert . 1528. the third year . q camden eliz. p. 2. saith in his 38. year of age . but he was born 1491. iune 28. r camden . ibid. p. 102. s camden , ibid. saith , being then returned . heylin saith , she returned with her father from his embassie ; which was in 1527. saith stow , in that year . * page 10. t camden , ibid. sand. de schism . p. 23. pallavic . ibid. 11.15.8 . u sand. ibid. p. 17. x camd. eliz. p. 3. y l. herb. p. 232. z sand. ibid. p. 28. a l. herb. 1528. decemb. 17. b signified to the king , 1529 iun. 13. l. herbert . publisht iuly 3. ibid. c thuan. l. 1. p. 18. c. d. d a vocation signed iun. 15. l. herbert . 1529. the fourth year . e in august . fox mart. p. 1688. lin . 88. f fuller hist. of camb. sect. 6. n. 40. g cardinal bellay's brother , and bishop stokesly . stow , p. 532.1530 . the fifth year . h bologna and padua . i l. herb. 1530. iun. 13. and 22. k l. herb. ib. aug. 24. and 29. and sept. 23. l aug. 31. ibid. m speed , hen. 8. n. 71. a camd. eliz. p. 3. and 4. b wolsey and warham . l. herb. p. 334. c 1530. aug 9. florence taken , 1531. iuly 7. alex. medices made duke of it . ricciol . chron. d l. herb. p. 335.1531 . the sixth year . e apr. 30. stow. l. herb. p. 352. may 31. f l. herb. p. 354. g iuly 14. l. herb. ibid. h 1532. feb. l. herb. p. 363. i march 16. l. herb. p. 364. 1532. the seventh year . k iuly 8. l. herb. p. 364. k iuly 8. l. herb. p. 364. l nov. 4. m nov. 14. l. herb. ibid. n sand. de schism . p. 60. cooper . holinshed . 129 , &c. 1533. the eighth year . o may 23 ▪ l. herb. p. 375 , &c. p iune 1. q sand. de schism . p. 29. r iuly 11. l. herb. p. 386. s nov. 7. bonner delivered the appeal . l. herb. p. 389. t nov. 10. l. herb. ibid. u decemb. 2. l. herb. p. 395 , 396. x l. herb. p. 396. and lab. chron. a. 1534 † in the christmas holy-days . l. herb. p. 396. y l. herb. and labbe . ibid. z march 19. l. herb. p. 396● 1534. a l. herb. ibid. b l. herb. and labbe . ibid. c pope iulius ii. stiled him , defender of the papal dignity . leo x. stiled him , defender of the faith. and clement vii . the deliverer of the roman city . d l. herb. and labbe . ibid. e l. herbert . p. 397. f mar. 23. l. herb. ibid. g l. herbert . p. 406. h bzovius ann . 1534.7 . i 1534. sept. 26. paul iii. k l. herb. p. 451. l novem. 3 ▪ m l. herb. ibid. n 1535 aug. 30. l. herb. p. 394. o 1538. dec. 17. l. herb. and labbe . l. herb. p. 489. marius de schism . & conc. part 3. c. 16. pallav. hist. iii. 12.5 . stow chron. 1533. may. mantua , vicenza . 1536. iuly 20 , l. herb. p. 471 , 472. 1537. mar. 25. l. herb. p. 489. 1538. april 8. l. herb. p. 502. rich. pates titular bishop of worcester , l. herb. p. 609. * l. herbert . p. 451 , 452. a l. her. p. 584 , and 595. b b. tonstal's letter in foxes acts , &c. ii. 347.60 . edit . 1641. c sand. de schism . p. 53 l. herb. p. 329. d sand. de schism . p. 55. e l. herbert . p. 418. v. poli orat. ad . imp. f b. tonstal ib. ii. 345.10 . in his printed sermon . ibid. 341.46 . g l. herbert . p. 511. h labbe chro. anno 1537. i pag. 45. k pag. 8 , 9. l sand. de schis . p. 68. b. m pa. 97 , 98. n conc. trid. sess. 4. an. 1546. april 8. o supra p. 91 sand. de schis . p. 139. p camd. eliz. p. 39 , 40. q v.b. sparrow's collection . r xxxix articles . art. 37. s see sir roger twisden's collection of them in his vindication . t supra p. 18.45 . u l. herbert . p. 408. x supra p. 45. y sand. de schism . p. 134. z camd. eliz. a she puts out thirteen bishops . b fox acts and mon. 1280.60.1282.50 . and 1332.20 , 80. c full. church hist. l. 8 §. 3. n. 41. & pallavic . hist. conc. trid. xv. 7.1 , 2 d 1559. ian. 23 e camd. eliz. p. 39. f ibid. p. 25. g v. supra . h v. bramhal●'s vindication . p. 86. i camd. eliz. p. 41. bonner , tonstal , and thurlby . k camd. eliz. p. 36. l supra . p. 6 , 7. m anno 1562. n conc. trident. sess. 4. o cressy's ep. apol. n. 132. p supra , p. 8 , 9. q conc. chalced. can. 30. in the codex canonum universae ecclisiae , and in binnius iii. p. 447. e. edit . paris . an. 1636 a pa. 81 , &c. b anno 787. conc. nic. ii. said to be of 350 bishops . c anno 754. conc. const. of 338 bishops . anno 794. conc. frankf . of about 300. * dr. stillingfleet in answer to t. g. p. 812. to p. 838. * supra p. 88. e v. greg. vii . dict●ta . f hence the style of those decrees ; alex. in conc. lateran . innocent . in conc. lateran . &c. pag. 78 , 80. objections against the practicableness of this discrimination . * considerations of present concernment . 1675. i. the roman church and court not differing in their principles . * h. dodwell of the fundamental principle of popery . a pag. 6. a v. labbe's edition of the councils tom . x. p. 23. a. and p. 379. e. compared with the oath in the pontifical . c ib. tom . xiv . col. 944. c. & v. sup . p. 10. d v. supra p. 88. e iohn major . f anno 1552. hist. conc. trid. l. 4. and pallavic . hist. xii . 15.12 . & . 15. g v. supra p. 10 h pallavic . hist. trent . xxi . 7.5 i sand. de schism . contiu . p. 182. k unam sanctam . tit . de major . & obed. l concil . edit . labb . tom . x. p. 405. a. &c. m baron . anno 1046. n. 4. n baron . anno 1111. n. 29. & n. 42. o from hildebrand downward . p h. d. considerations § xxx . of third lateran . § xxxi . of the fourth . § xxxvi . of the council of lions . q ibid. § xxxvii . of the council of constance . & v. concil . tom . 12. p. 276. d. r h.d. considerations , § xxviii . s ib. § ix . &c. * king iames thought himself concerned to write his defence of the right of kings , in answer to it . v. his works p. 383. t brunonis hist. belli sax. p. 123. lin. 18. in freheri germ. edit . francof . 1600. councils of labbe's edition , tom. xi . part . 1. col. 727. d. & 629. e. u bzov. an. 1221. n. 2. & 1225. n. 10. x councils of labb●'s edition , tom. xi . part . 1. col. 642. a. y being called conciliabula . answer . the second objection . * council of constance sess ▪ 19. in labbe's edition of councils , tom. xii . col. 196. e. & 1 ▪ 0. a. answer . a council of basil in labbe's councils , tom. xii . p. 620. d. & 621. a. & 766. b. & 767. b. c no new order of regulars is to be admitted in any place without leave of the ordinary , v. conc. trident. sess. 25. de regular . cap. 3. & bullam urb. viii . 1628. aug. 28. which begins with romanus pontifex in the bullarium cherubini of lyons edition . tom ▪ iv. p. 62. d jesuites , discalceat carmelites , and cappucìns .