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   Volume 5, Nomor 2, Agustus 2020 
          ISSN 2442-8965 (P) ISSN 2442-8973 (E)   

 

 

The Analysis of Political Discourse in Anies Baswedan Interview with 

The Sydney Morning Herald 
 

Dhion Meitreya Vidhiasi 

mvdhion@gmail.com 

Akademi Maritim Nusantara Cilacap, Indonesia 

 

 

ABSTRACT 
 

Indeed, the political world is never free of whatever smells of controversy. News that is still 

widely debated is an article in the Australian newspaper, The Sydney Morning Herald, written 

by James Masolla dated May 7, 2020. The article was a conclusion from his interview with 

Anies Rasyid Baswedan, Governor of DKI Jakarta. This study aims at analyzing the political 

discourse contained in the video interview with James Masolla given by Governor Anies by 

seeing the persuasive strategy used by both people. The data obtained were then analyzed by 

employing the theory of persuasive strategy. Researchers used descriptive methods to tell the 

results of the analysis of this study. The findings of this study show that the interview with 

James Masolla by Anies attracted a lot of different perspectives within the audience. James’ 

skill in supporting and directing Anies has also earned Anies supporters’ respect for the 

Governor. The quality of the argument given by Anies is excellent because it can provide a 

probability claim and provide a desirably claim. This has been shown that the usage of the 

persuasion approach allows clarifying the meaning behind an argument. Persuasive techniques 

may also be utilized to forecast the reaction and the behavior the interlocutors want. There is 

potential for what Anies did to guide him in the contestation of the presidential election in 2024, 

although it is still too early to talk about it. Anies’ interview, however, showed that there was a 

problem between DKI Jakarta’s provincial Government and the national Government.  

 

Keywords: Anies Rasyid Baswedan; James Masolla; Persuasive Strategy; Political Discourse. 

 

 

 

 

A. INTRODUCTION 

The latest news that is still hotly discussed is the interview of the Governor of DKI 

Jakarta with one of the Australian Media named The Sydney Morning Herald. James 

Massola, as a correspondent, later concluded the results of his interview in an article 

dated May 7, 2020, entitled “Not allowed to do testing”: Governor says Jakarta was 

tracking COVID-19 cases in January “. The article then raises a variety of positive and 

negative responses. Especially with the number of positive cases of COVID-19 in DKI 

http://u.lipi.go.id/1421293761
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Jakarta as of May 12, 2020, which reached 5303 cases, making the public see the battle 

between the Provincial Government and the Central Government. 

James Massola is south-east Asia correspondent based in Jakarta. He was 

previously chief political correspondent, based in Canberra. He has been a Walkley and 

Quills finalist on three occasions, won a Kennedy Award for outstanding foreign 

correspondent and is the author of The Great Cave Rescue. 

Talk about politics, there is a saying that there are no eternal friends or opponents 

in politics. Bayram (2010:24) said that politics is a struggle for power to put specific 

political, economic, and social ideas into practice. Language plays a crucial role in 

every political action. Language is closely linked to our childhood social and cognitive 

development, and to the formation of our identity. A listener may take a different 

speaker’s attitude. 

Language attitudes have been described by Trudgill (1992:44) as the attitudes 

which people have towards different languages, dialects, accents, and speakers. Such 

attitudes may range from very favorable to very unfavorable. They may be manifested 

in subjective judgments about correctness, worth and aesthetic qualities of varieties, as 

well as the personal qualities for their speakers. Bayram (2010:25) explained two kinds 

of view toward language attitude; those are mentalist and behaviorist view. Fasold and 

Connor (2006:147) observed that most language research is focused on a mentalist 

perception of attitude as a readiness state: “an intervening variable between a stimulus 

affecting a person and that person’s response.” Bayram (2010:25) said that from a 

behaviorist view, attitudes could be identified clearly in the responses people provide to 

social circumstances. Holmes (2001:344) said that Language attitudes reflect attitudes 

towards users and language usages. In culture, the regular variety has a “hidden 

reputation”. 

Giles and Coupland (1991) commented on the evaluation of regular American 

speakers, and Kentucky accented them. The study reported Kentucky’s accented 

speakers displayed high unity, low rank. The specific outcome showed that American 

standard speakers scored low on unity, great on standing. Likewise, in their study, 

Coupland et al. (1994) found that teachers in Wales classified Carmarthen English 

(characterized as the Welsh version of RP by one teacher) relatively high not only for 



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reputation but also for dynamism, pleasantness and “Welshness.” On the other side, RP 

scored strongly at prestige and, in all other respects, very low. 

Such studies have shown that attitudes towards speech can define the social and 

cultural personality, social status, and perceptions of legitimacy and unity of others and 

that attitudes towards expression and its various varieties may be influenced by a variety 

of users’ individual expression influences. This article focuses primarily on the 

interview with James Masolla of the Sydney Morning Herald by Jakarta Governor 

Anies Rasyid Baswedan, which focuses on the realization of power in the context of 

language use. 

Skvortsova (2017) considered political discourse as a specific kind of discourse. It 

comprises all types of interaction of an individual and society, creating worldview. 

Political discourse reveals the way cultural values and social order are imposed in 

different societies. Political discourse is often practiced by those who have the intention 

of wanting to influence others. This practice is often seen when seeing a politician speak 

in response to an event or when they make a speech. It has been known that discourse 

can describe someone through language.  

According to van Dijk’s clarification (1997:12), their actors or writers describe 

political discourse, viz. Policymakers. Political discourse is about the text and 

professional or government bodies thinking about it. Another clarification from 

Amaglobeli (2017:20) is that political discourse can be defined as a deliberate act that is 

intended to achieve specific goals in each case and that these goals are, as a rule, real. 

Political discourse may be said to be used to convince, defend, or de-construct certain 

things. In other words, in political discourse, ideology plays an important role. 

Schaffner in Bayram (2010:27) said it was possible to split political discourse into 

two criteria; those are practical and thematic. Political discourse plays various purposes, 

depending on the specific political activities. The objective is driven by one political 

cause or theme, such as political action, political ideas, and international relations. 

An influential person can quickly be influencing others. Bayram (2010:27) 

described power as a complex, abstract concept that has a significant influence on 

human life. Power is the capacity of its holders to demand other individuals’ conformity 

or obedience to their will. Language once again plays a vital role in making social life 

exchange of values and turning power into right, and compliance into an obligation. 



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Rousseau in Bayram (2010:27) states that the best is only strong enough to always be 

monarch without altering his power to loyalty in right and obligation. 

The reaction that comes from people to statements from someone can vary. 

Edwards (2006:324) said people do not respond to the environment based on sensory 

information, but rather on the sense of what we interpret the data. For example, when 

Ahok apologized for his case of blasphemy, many people said it was a fake apology, 

while some said it was a genuine apology. Hearing a particular variation is a mechanism 

or stimulation that evokes cognitive expectations or beliefs or stereotypes about the 

community that is assumed to be the speaker. 

Politics is concerned with a power that is the ability to make decisions, control 

resources, control the actions of others, and also control their values. Politicians have 

achieved popularity over the centuries, according to Jones and Peccei in Bayram 

(2010:28), thanks to their “skillful use of rhetoric,” that seeks to convince their public of 

the legitimacy of their views by using elegant and convincing words sensitively and 

deliberately. Rhetoric is the art of utilizing language to persuade or affect others; a 

speaker or writer will obey a set of guidelines such that it communicates it eloquently. 

According to van Dijk (2006:733), political circumstances involve a cognitive 

partnership between conditions and speech or text, that is to say, meaning. These 

circumstances indicate the political discourse includes not only political debate 

structures but also political backgrounds. 

Two viewpoints, which are micro-level and macro-level, can be used to analyze 

the political discourse. Micro-level research can be achieved by looking at word usage, 

and so on, whereas from the communicative case, macro-level can be seen. Language 

usage, voice, verbal expression, and communication are part of the social order micro-

level. The study of the macro-levels involves control, domination, and inequality 

between social classes. van Dijk (2003:354) explained that Critical Discourse Analysis 

could theoretically bridge the gap between micro and macro approaches, which is a 

distinction that is a sociological construct in its own right. 

The Critical Discourse Analysis (CDA) was mostly linked to the ideas of Norman 

Fairclough, Ruth Wodak, and Teun van Dijk. Bayram (2010:31) said that CDA could be 

used to describe, interpret, analyze, and criticize social life reflected in the text. CDA 

seeks to investigate the interaction between discursive activities, texts, and occurrences 



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as well as more comprehensive frameworks, connections, and procedures of social and 

cultural matters. 

The political discourse is not just about communication. It brings its clear 

objectives and specific participants together. The primary purpose of political discourse 

is to win and deduct power, with political and social participation (Kenzhekanova, 

2015). The power of an immediate manipulative impact on the minds of the public is 

achieved through certain political discourse representation tactics and strategies. Speech 

strategies are unique in this respect (Sukhanov, 2018). 

Renkema and Schubert (2018:278) explain that the consistency of the argument 

has two aspects: the power of the argument (the predicted result probability) and the 

valence of the argument (this outcome’s desirability). So, in arguing for or against an 

issue (e.g., “You should stop smoking”), one can improve the argument quality by 

providing a probability claim (“It is statistically proved that people who don’t stop 

smoking run a higher risk of dying of lung cancer”) or by providing a desirability claim 

(“If you stop smoking you will feel much healthier”). 

This work will give the reader exposure to the technique of self-expression 

(creating a politician’s image). According to Titova (2018), the technique includes 

tactics of fair treatment with others (demonstrating that one belongs to this social and 

political group) as well as tactics of resistance. Two persuasive methods are presented 

by Kochneva and Titova (2019): 

1) Arguments technique (by presenting facts to convince a recipient). This sub-

strategy consists of the following few tactics: 

a) established appraisal techniques (when a speaker tries to analyze and explain 

something); 

b) contrast analysis tactics (confrontation and comparison of facts, events, 

outcome); 

c) strategies of showing perspectives (predictive event growth, report on potential 

objectives); and 

d) tactics of illustration (examples, facts).  

2) Propagation strategy (the strategy of influencing people’s behavior by making them 

do something, make a choice), which includes the tactics of promise and the tactics 

of appeal 



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Language both shapes and is shaped by society. CDA is not so much interested in 

language use itself, but the linguistic character of social and cultural processes and 

structures. Blommaert (2019), Kochneva and Titova (2019), and Qaiwer (2020) 

researched political discourse. Blommaert examines language in Twitter usage, while 

Kochneva and Titova discuss the use of political discourse in a film. Qaiwaer examines 

the use of ironic utterances in political discourse. 

Those researchers agreed that the way someone spoke determined the purpose 

behind the statement. That way of speaking is then called speech strategy. This study 

aims to examine how the speech strategy used by Anies Baswedan and James Masolla 

as a form of political discourse implementation. The researcher sees the figure of Anies 

Baswedan as a very influential figure. Moreover, the effects of the interviews conducted 

were quite noisy for Indonesians. Anies Baswedan was also predicted as a presidential 

candidate in the presidential election contestation in 2024. 

 

B. RESEARCH METHOD 

In this part, the author presented an analytical unit, data collection method, and data 

analysis. In this study, the analytical unit used is the “move,” which can be a word, a 

phrase, a sentence, or sentences. It is stated by Webster New World College Dictionary 

(1997) that the word is a speech sound, or series, that communicates meaning, and 

consists, with or without a prefix or suffix, of at least one basic morpheme. A phrase is 

then a sequence of two or more words that convey or create a separate part of a sentence 

but which does not include a subject and predicate. It also states that a sentence is a 

standard unit of interdependent speech or writing that usually contains a subject and a 

predicate. 

Sutomo (2016:24) notes that the term “jump”, a written or spoken word, is the 

unified functional sense of a sentence or group of sentences. In this study, 

words/phrases/sentences are mainly segmented text discourse from the YouTube 

downloaded interview of Anies Baswedan. The researcher acknowledges the data 

verbatim and there is no alteration of the data as conclusive findings must be found in 

data analysis and interpretation. 



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Data sources for the present study are written data as the researcher attempts to 

explain in an interview with Anies Baswedan the phenomena of written data in 

connection with the Appraisal System. 

The data were collected through the following steps: (1) Browsing the website; (2) 

Finding the Anies Baswedan’s interview with James Masolla; (3) Downloading the 

video of the interview from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOtgmyT4FVM; (4) 

Transcribe the interview. The data were accessed on 12 May 2020, and they were 

treated verbatim. 

Descriptive research methods are the approach used in this analysis. Polit and 

Beck (2004:192) announce that descriptive work aims at witnessing, identifying, and 

recording aspects of a natural situation. In describing the research, an event, condition, 

or situation is described in detail using quantitative, qualitative, or combined methods.  

The author was using the key aspects of linguistic analysis in this study: content 

collection, contrast, interpretation, and explanation of the results. The author always 

looks at the language, taking lexical units, and conceptual sense into account. 

 

C. FINDINGS AND DISCUSSION 

Findings 

It is no longer a secret that the interview of the Governor of DKI Jakarta, Anies 

Rasyid Baswedan with a contributor named James Masolla from The Sydney Morning 

Herald’s newspaper, was a warm discussion discussed by every element of the 

community. Many of his supporters said that the interview was perfect because the 

interview showed that the Governor of DKI Jakarta was more responsive than the 

Minister of Health, especially the National Government. However, not a few consider 

that what Anies delivered in the interview was an attempt to “seek the stage” for the 

presidential election contest in 2024. 

The interview strategies used by both Anies Baswedan and James Masolla vary. 

Mr. Anies often uses strategies where he wants to prove his evaluation of something. 

This is evidenced by providing data in the form of numbers, narrating the sequence of 

events, and using words that can support his statement. Anies also often used 

illustrations in these interviews. Mr. Anies also often provides a comparison, in this 

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case, comparing the attitude of Mr. Anies as the Governor of DKI Jakarta with the 

attitude of the Government in handling COVID19.  

One interesting thing is that both Mr. Anies and Mr. James are both using a 

propagation strategy, which can make someone do something unnoticed. This has been 

shown that the usage of the persuasion approach allows to clarify the meaning behind an 

argument. Persuasive techniques may also be utilized to forecast the reaction and the 

behavior the interlocutors want. 

Discussion 

The use of appraisal techniques is often used by Anies in an interview with James 

Masolla. This is intended to confirm something. 

Anies: And then number two with the number of the real cases. 
On the real cases, I’m referring to funeral services. As you know, that the funeral 

services in March, in the month of March and April is quite high. 

 

Anies tried to convince James that the data provided was accurate. The use of the 

phrase “quite high” was said by Anies by providing a further explanation to strengthen 

his argument about the number of actual positive cases. 

Anies: And, let me, let me check the number just a minute. 

In the month of April, it is also around 4590 funerals in that month. And that is 

four weeks. 

In the month of March, most of those service is in the third or fourth week. And 

the number is around 4300. 

 

 

Picture 1. Funeral Chart with the permanent procedure of COVID-19 Handling 

(corona.jakarta.go.id) 



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Something is interesting with the numbers given by Anies to James. If you look at 

the corona.jakarta.go.id page, the accumulation of funeral data with the COVID-19 

handling procedure recorded up to 31 March 2020, touched more than 2000 figures but 

not up to 3000. While on 28 April 2020, 1597 bodies were buried with the COVID-19 

handling protocol. Even so, the strategy Anies used in giving his argument was 

responded well by James. 

James: Bapak Governor, what I was asking you is we ask for the information of the 

burial information for April, we had to go to through the national Government. 

Are they blocking your Government or they ask your Government not to 

release the April data? 
 

The question posed by James shows that James clashed the DKI Jakarta 

government with the National Government. This shows that James agrees with the 

figures presented by Anies even though it looks different from the data showed on the 

corona.jakarta.go.id page. The use of tactics of contrast analysis is also used to 

strengthen Anies’s argument further. 

Anies: They are not asking us not to release, but they have been discouraging people to 

rely on our number. 

James: Okay right. 

Anies: They are saying that those are not a covid cases and it is true that we cannot say 

they are covid cases but average burial services is about 2700 per month and 

then suddenly it jumped to more than 4000 so it raised an eyebrow. 

James: Yes of course, that’s exactly the point of mine of course. 

 

The use of the words “okay right” and “yes, of course” is a form of a statement 

that represents the proposition as highly warrantable. James’s answer emphasized that 

what Anies said with the figures presented was indeed something that could be justified. 

The phrase “okay right” also confirms that there is an attempt by the national 

Government to influence people to distrust the figures given by Anies. So, no wonder, 

the pros, and cons of the data provided by Anies are even greater among the people. 

The use of an argument strengthening strategy by making comparisons was also 

carried out by James. It can be seen from his words that praising the DKI Jakarta 

Provincial Government’s corona page is better than the National Government’s. James 

Masolla said: 



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James: So, looking on the Jakarta website, the Jakarta corona website, which by the 

way so much better than the national Government’s website, more 

information and more useful. 

 

The choice of the phrase “so much better” can be categorized as a form of praise 

for something. That phrase is an assessment of the degree of intensity that operates over 

quality. James Masolla, as a correspondent, seems to be very good at trying to win the 

hearts of Governor Anies. The addition of the phrases “more information” and “more 

useful” shows that the COVID19 information page owned by the national Government 

does not provide sufficient information and usefulness when compared to pages owned 

by the DKI Jakarta government.  

 hhh 
Picture 2. Data of COVID-19 from the website of DKI Jakarta 

(https://corona.jakarta.go.id/id/data-pemantauan) 

 

 

https://corona.jakarta.go.id/id/data-pemantauan


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Picture 3. Data of COVID-19 from the website of National Government 

(https://covid19.go.id/peta-sebaran) 

 

If we look at the comparison of the website of the DKI Jakarta Provincial 

Government with the website of the National Government, more or less, the information 

shown is the same. Picture 2 and Picture 3 are the initial screenshots for each page. 

From the results of the comparison, both pages provide easy-to-read information. The 

only difference is that the distribution map is shown on a page owned by the national 

Government.  

The dispute between the Government of DKI Jakarta and the National 

Government was increasingly apparent when Anies openly shared her differing views 

with the Minister of Health, which was then greeted with a propagation strategy carried 

out by James. 

Anies: And we have different paradigm on that. The ministry of health don’t share 

that view. That’s more of the tension. 

From our side, being transparent and telling what to do is providing sense of 

security, but the Ministry of Health the other way around. Being transparent, 

will create panics. And that’s not our view. 

 

Anies’s statement about the paradigm differences about “transparency” between 

Anies and the Minister of Health shows that there is something that is being hidden both 

from the DKI Jakarta government and by the Minister of Health. Anies opinion about 

being transparent at the beginning of the COVID19 case was detected as an act to 

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provide a sense of security proved to be inappropriate. This is evident by the scarcity of 

finding a variety of Personal Protective Equipment such as masks at pharmacies and 

minimarkets.  

The high price of a firing thermometer is also evidence that at that time, people 

were panicked by the findings of COVID19 cases. Residents flocked to hoard masks 

and shot thermometers for themselves. Surgical masks and N95 masks that are needed 

by medical staff are also rare in the market. Panic also occurs when residents flock to 

hoard groceries for their supplies at home. 

Anies: So that’s why we asked for authority to do restrictions, and then when the 

authority is not there, we have started anyway. 

And we did that without asking for authority to do all those restrictions. 

James: We had to 

Anies: We had to do that. 

 

The contradiction between Anies and the Minister of Health was increasingly 

apparent when Anies made a unilateral territorial restriction regulation. The COVID19 

case, which has been determined as a national disaster, makes everything that is done by 

the local Government must be coordinated with the national Government. 

However, it seems that Anies was brave enough to conduct territorial restrictions 

without coordination with the national Government. This became even more “justified” 

when James replied Anies’s statement with the statement “we had to”. James’s 

statement, which is a propagation strategy, was welcomed by Anies, who affirmed the 

statement “we had to do that”. Anies’s counter-statement can be interpreted that what 

Anies is doing is the right thing and can be continued even though it has the potential to 

cause conflict with the National Government. 

James: It’s interesting. Every time, I tweeted something about you, I get thousands and 

thousands of shares and likes, actually praising in social media. 

I think a lot of Jakartans are very very happy with your performance and not 

so happy with bapak Jokowi. It’s true. 

 

There is an interesting statement made by James. He made a comparison between 

Anies and President Jokowi. Another attempt made by James to win Anies’ heart. 

President Jokowi’s performance, which is said to be no less good than Anies, 

emphasizes that James is confident in everything that Anies made. James is implicitly 

convinced that Anies has done something right. 



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Anies: In the month of April, it is also around 4590 funerals in that month. And that is 

four weeks.In the month of March, most of those service is in the third or fourth 

week. And the number is around 4300.So, if we assume, that case fatality rate is 

between 5 – 10 %, then the real cases out there is between 8000, 9000, sorry 

40.000 to 80.000 perhaps. 

 

Something is interesting here, namely the use of the words “assume” and 

“perhaps”. Choosing these two words may mean Governor Anies is in a condition that 

is uncertain of what has been said. Those words make the statement of Anies is open for 

alternative positions in the dialogue. The word ‘perhaps’ suggests the lack of attention 

to the true meaning of the proposals. Anies’s strategy is categorized in tactics of 

showing perspectives. Anies predicted the actual number of positive COVID19 cases. 

Anies: Pak James, this is the time in which policymakers need to trust science. This is 

the time to prove that our public policy is based on the scientific findings. And 

I’m going to continue to rely on science to tell us about this issue. 

James: That’s an excellent policy Governor. I wish there are more Government around 

the world that will doing that some are but not all of them. 

 

Anies reiterated his argument by making a plan. When viewed from Anies’s 

statement, the plan that Anies made did indeed look right by trusting science. As we 

know that scientific discovery requires in-depth research by the scientific field. 

However, James’s reply to Anies’s statement made it seem as if what had been done by 

the National Government was not based on scientific research. 

James showed his hope that he wanted more governments to emulate Anies’s 

steps. By saying “government” instead of “local government” shows that the national 

Government does not use opinions or scientific results in determining its steps to deal 

with the COVID-19 outbreak. Praise given by James reinforces Anies’s plan. 

Anies: Let me give you an illustration. On March 30, we closed down intercity 

terminals. The Jakarta Government did that. And then it’s overruled. 

Unfortunately. 

Last year, just an illustration, 7 million people did mudik. 

Let me give you an illustration. When we heard about the cases in Wuhan, late 

December, early January. On the 6
th

 of January, we already started to have 

meetings with all hospitals in Jakarta. 

To give you an illustration. Total ICU that we have is around 12.000. we have 

12000 ICU, however only around 900 were filled with patients. 

 

In Anies’s interview with James Masolla, Anies gave 4 (four) illustrations. Anies 

shows the steps Anies has taken in dealing with the COVID-19 outbreak. But 



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unfortunately, Anies again showed that there were problems that occurred between the 

DKI Jakarta government and the national Government. This is indicated by the use of 

the words “overruled” and “unfortunately”. 

Anies’s decision to close the inter-city bus terminal was met with the cancellation 

of the decision. The only Government that can overturn this decision is the national 

Government. The cancellation implies that there is no good coordination between the 

DKI Jakarta government and the national Government. 

James: You’ve won a lot of praise for your handling of this crisis; I wouldn’t argue you 

are in the front row for the 2024 presidential election. Is that something what 

you think about in the back of your mind? 

Anies: No, no. This is too early to talk about anything which is still going on for the 

next 4 years. …….. Hopefully it’s over soon and then we can discuss more 

general including an election. 

 

Propagation strategy was again used by James to get Anies to do or admit 

something. Although Anies initially refused to discuss everything related to the 2024 

presidential election, in the end, Anies also agreed to James’s “invitation” to discuss the 

presidential election after the COVID-19 outbreak was over. This shows that implicitly, 

Anies does have a purpose that leads to the presidential election in 2024. 

 

D. CONCLUSIONS 

An interview by the Governor of DKI Jakarta, Anies Rasyid Baswedan, with a 

contributor from The Sydney Morning Herald named James Masolla, indeed captured 

the attention of the people of Indonesia. The quality of the argument given by Anies is 

excellent because it can provide a probability claim and provide a desirably claim. 

Anies, who is also considered a strong candidate in the 2024 presidential election 

contestation, used the overall persuasion strategy put forward by Kochneva and Titova. 

The study in the political discourse of persuasion theory is a complex and 

coherent entity that covers many aspects of our lives. The topical issue that occupies the 

minds of the entire nations is frequently used because political strategies may be 

reflected. The usage of the persuasive approach has been found to help in interpreting 

the meaning of an argument. Persuasive techniques may often be used to anticipate the 

reaction and what the interlocutors intend to do. 

 

 



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