Focus 2003.tif 268 O n the E nduring I mpact o f Li terature: A Conversation with Azade Seyhan Dr. Azade Seyhan is a Professor of German and Comparative Li terature and Adjunct Professor of Philosophy at Bryn Mawr College in 13 ryn Mawr, Pennsylvania. In her most recent book, Ir'dling Olluidt fm Nation (princeton UP, 2001), she explores the domain of transnational poetics, considering themes such as memory, language, and autobiography. Other recent plIbltcations include "Enduring G rief: Amobiography as the 'Poeuy of Wimess' in the work of Assia Djebar and Nazim Hikmet" (forthCOming in Conlpara/ive Utero/liTe SllIdiu) and 'Linguistic Difference and CulturJ.l Translatability: a Primer" (ADFL BlIlleon 33, 2002). She teaches courses on German li terary and imellecrual history. cultural diversity in Ge rman sociery, philosophical app roaches to criticism, women's wriling, migr:tncy, exile, and diasporas. FOCUS: What sparked your inrereS( in German and Compa rative Li terature? A2ad e Scyhan: I thi nk that my academic ca reer has not had a very traditional uajectory. JUSt by the circumstances of my birth, 1 think T was destined to be acomparatisrof some son. l\fy father was one of the few srudems who was sem by Atarurk, the founder of modern Turkey, to srudy modern science in Germany in order to come bad: and contribute to the esrablisbmem of Ihe modenl Turkish university system. l\'ly mother was a chemist. She is also a great sto ryteller, and r dedicate my second book to her as the alchemIst of tales. 1 wem [Q a German school in Istanbul, and that is where my interest in Germa n li terature blossomed. There: was an emphasis on German Htera ture o f the classical period. Then [ went to Robert College in fstanbul and studied Comparative Literarure there, with an emphasis on G erman li terature. Later J came to rhe United States 270 Po(Us on Gem/at} Studies on a Fulbright grant to srudy linguiscics. and got my hrSt Master's degree in Near Eastern Languages. I came to the University of Washmgton In Seatde to study Comparative urcraturc, but I ended up getting a Ph.D. in German. FOCUS: What sparked your interest in uansnationallirernrucc? Seyhan: My interest in the imemational dimensions of literature is what propeUed me to study literanares in a more transnational context. Literature tends to be a very universal human interest, like art, and I have al\\"ays felt that il was problematic to confine literarures to national paradigms. Cerwnly there are national, temporal, hiSl'Orical and geographical cha racteristics that define li teramre, blH I think there is some universal appeal that is best teased Out in lhis notion of uansnational literature. Transnational is also a term that is, at least at this point in history, free of prejudice and boundaries. I do believe in the historical siruatedness of lireramres. At the same time, I believe that we need to move away from certain paradigms in order [0 understand Ihem better, or at least engage in a critical dialog with these paradigms. FOCUS: You have wnuen qui.le a bit abom [he usefulness of transnational literature and bterarure in general in the college classroom. Could you comment on the relevance of your research both in me classroom and berond the classroom? Seyhan: I think Iiterarure is an indispensable part of any liberal arts education. It &oives us vistas thar more strictly defined disciplines don't ahvays give us. It affords us very interesting glimpses inro other culrures, which are not necessarily available through sheer analytic approaches. One example is Ihal we can't come up urich an analytical paradigm and hope that it applies to all cul[L1res. I have always said that we need to understand the universal appeal of literatu re and irs contribution 10 a better grasp of olher cultures. but we also need to balance that with specific knowledge of specific culrures. We cannot throw cultural specificity OUI the window, and come lip with some theoretical paradigm that is Sllpposed to explain everything, every culrural nuance. There are nuances, but mere arc also certain notions Conversation with Azacle Scyhan 27 1 that cultures share. This is the negotiation we have to implemenL I bdieve in literature's usefulness, in and of itself, bur I also believe III its supplementa ry power. \Ve understand hisrory bellcr by studYing the luerarure of certain hiSlOrical periods. Narrauves and storic:.s remember what official histories forget; hu~r.uure is an institution of culrural memory. \Vhcn I [each IHer-Hurt in the classroom, I ask my students to articulate its relevance to everyt hing else they are studying. T ask them to write papers about how these glimpses, these insiglus imo other cultures through lilecature, help them to understand rhelr courses in history, In amhropoiog)'. For that reason, my courses are always cross-listed with an thropology and philosophy. I also have said on many occasions in my classroom thar ahhough we live in a very visual age, I still think that the impact of lit erarure is much more enduring than the impact of Images. I mages are flecung, and we are bombarded with them to the extenr [hal we can't even make sense of them, o r we become jaded by images. As is happening right now - we see these images of bombiogs as if they were a video game, and it leaves no Impact on us after a while. '111e impact of the wnrren word is more enduring. I also think literature tS more accessible: we can always go to the bbrary and find a book, bur we may nOt have the up·lo·date compuler that will bring us all these images. Images are fleeting. but literature still tends to be an ardllve of cultural histories, as weU as our own hislOries. FOCUS: There bas been much effort in recent years by aUlhors, filmmakers, and scholars to rewrite and redefine the "brtdge between cultures" meraphor. What IS your lake on lhis mernphor? Seyhan: The bridge metaphor has been around for a long rime, Turkish writers have been especially fascinated by this metaphor. Writers from Istanbul lend to be more interested in this image, because Istanbul is, of course, astride twO contint.:ms and has always seen itself as a bridge, although Ihe Strait of Bosporus did not have any bridges until very recently. We aenlally had to ferry from one continent to the ot her. Perhaps at that ume the fefry o r "ferrying" meraphor - "libecsetzen" - was a more appropriate metaphor. 272 FoCIIs on German Swdiu I believe "the bridge" is a useful memphof, but maybe we should cross the bridge and join forces or walk mgether across the bridge. Iva Andric, a writer from [he former Yugoslavia, won the Nobel Prize with his novel The Bridge 0" 1m Dn"na. This novel had a very large impact on Turkish readers, writers and scholars. T his book is still of great interest coday, because, in spite of aU the ink spilled about the bloodshed in Bosnia, we have reaUy nor goneo a historical view of the conflicts in that parr of the world. The book recounts how diverse culrural memories accumulated o n this bridge between the Serbians and the Bosnians in an outpOSt of the Qnoman Empire. Instead of bringing Lhese people rogether, the bridge separated them. I think the bridge is a culrural meraphor that can connect but also disconnect, that can both ullite and disunite. 1 think that we have to be rogether on the bridge and not build it from different shores. There needs to be cooperation in the butlding of this bddge. 1 would have hoped that these bridges would have been built a long time ago, and that we would be beyond the bridge metaphor, but I also like Ruth Beckermann's idea of building a bridge underneath oneself, because perhaps existing bridges lack a kind of cultural infrasuucture that we need. This is important, because the bridge shouldn't JUSt signify crossing the civer, but also be cognizant of the roads mat mcrge into me highway that goes over the bridge. 1 think the roads "feeding into the bridge" is a metaphor that emphasizes strengthening the cultural infrasuucrure and the roads that lead to that bridge. The bridge is not a metaphor that 1 have worked with myself, probably because I wish we could go beyond it in a historical sense, and, instead, build d1e cultural suppOrt systems for the final production of (he bridge. All me other work (hat goes into the bridge, d1e subtext, is important. I think it is impon am d, at we see bridges in their histOrical con u::xr rather than just their spatial context. The temporal and the spatial have to go hand in hand. FOCUS: What do you think is problematic about the terms "Auslanderlirerarur" and "lvligraocen literarur"? Conversation wilil Azade Seyhan 273 Scyhan: Naming can be very importan t simply because language becomes a source of borh misrepresentation and prejudice. Many yea rs ago 1 was one of the co-editors of The Nt/v Gml/(II/ Cn"tiqllt} special issue o n minority cultures in Germany. Several articles contested these terms, <'Auslandcdjreratur" and <'l\UgralHcnhleratUr," because "Auslanderliterarur," of course, would mean lilal this literature is JUSt lhe lite rature of the foreigners or outsiders and therdore is never going to be "our" literarure. It selS up a dichotomy of "us against them," which is in a sense unbridgeable. It becomes ghenoized and kept somewhat separately from the lmellectual, literary and cultural debate and participation in a larger culwral lind literary network. T hat was always problematic, nOt on ly for myself but also for mhers who were working on literatures of othe r national and ethnic groups in Germany. 1 think "tvfigramenlilerarur" came a bi t later, and tha t term is problematic because migrancy has the connOlauon of being something temp011l ry, fleeting, and therefore could raise the question in the minds of readers, "why even bathe .. with reading tlus? I t may just be fad or only of ,-ery linuted academic interest." r have written about how language tcnds to house or create mis representations. How we define words and how we name things has a major impact on how we perceive reality. I thmk representations arc: vay complicit in the propagation of ideologies, especiaUy very problematic ideologies and fa lse notions about "lIS" and "Olhers." For Thal reason, I have uied to find terms Iha[ would not accrue negative connOtations in the course of lime, terms [hat are somewhat neutral. At the time of wriling lV'n·'ilig Olltsidt the Natioll, I thought that 1 would p rivilege tht:: term "uansnationa l" which didn't have a negative connotation. Like "uansatlantic," a term which simply meam we would be traveling but traveling wil h, I hoped, an open mind. Transnational for me also has connorauons of t.ranslating, or translating cultures, to d,e eXlent which that is possible. Obviollsly, there an:: things lost in translation, and there may be many things lost in tnmsnational venrurcs. Bur thaI doesn't mean we shouldn't uy. Owning up to tile loss in tra nsla tion shollid nor hold us back from tra nslation or from tr:Il1snatiol1al encounters 274 FOCUJ on GtnllaJl Studie.r of the lirer:lcy kind. FOCUS: Where do YOu see the role of wri ters such as Feridun Zaimoglu? Scyhan: Feridun Zaimoglu cre~Hes a kind of culture that is so radically cut off from the home culture, but at the same time defines what otherness really means, not for the intellectual elite bm for a large segment of rhe Turkish German population that is marginalized. And J think he has become a voice: for those who were not able to be educated properly in Germany, for [hose who are among the "lost generation" in Germany. The first generation of writers has come with a 1m of baggage, which J think they have used to good effect, with good results. Zalmoglu represents this culture that is really crying [0 find its voice. Irs memories have become unhinged. 1 think he is doing something very important there. But it remains to be seen where that is going to go, whether tlley are really going to come up with a new cultural voice. FOCUS: What projects are you working o n currently? What new fields of research do you see emerging? Seyh an: I think - and I have practiced what I preached - that German literature and culmre speak more effectively in imernational and transculrural comex(S. T am working on 3. projecr currently which is ahom how German cull\Lre bas liad an impact, not only in the West but at other sites. I am going back in hisrory from the current Turkish-German culrure in German}' to another Turkish­ German culture mat took roOl during the Naz i period, in Istanbul, when Atarurk invited scores of expelled German-Jewish and German professors (0 come and rebuild the university system in Istanbul. I am interested in the books [hat were wrinen at that time, because many of these books are critiques of the Enlightenment legacy. Wle know a lot about [he critique of the Enligh tenment mat was produced in me Un ited States by members of rhe Frankfurt School, but there were also very e:xcellem books that were produced at a different geographical site. T he silc:nce o f culrural history in rderence to these more marginal geographic sites concerns me. So Conversation with Azade Seyhan 275 T am now working on these books, comparing them with canonical works like:: DialekJik tkr Aujkliimng. 1 think we need [0 look at different sites where oath a critique of German mode miry has been generated and also where other great contnbutions [0 German culture within an interna tional context have been gtnerated. FOCUS: Thank you \'ery much. Scyha n: You are very welcome. Silkl Schade, LaJira Val (JlJd Ai'll Zimmermal/ contribl(led 10 tbis infen,ieu~ April3, 2003 Cillcinllati, Ohio, USA