Parental Prevention Education 1 Running Head: Parental Prevention Education Exploring the Effects of Parental Prevention Education on Child Sexual Abuse Prevention Undergraduate Researcher: Saskia Berrios-Thomas Social Work Major University of Pittsburgh Class of 2017 Faculty Mentors: Keith Caldwell, Director of BASW Program and Assistant Professor, School of Social Work, University of Pittsburgh Yodit Betru, Clinical Assistant Professor and Agency Coordinator, School of Social Work, University of Pittsburgh Community Partner: Julie Evans, Director of Prevention and Crisis Services, Pittsburgh Action Against Rape April 15, 2015 Parental Prevention Education 2 Abstract This research explores the impact of a parental prevention education program on child sexual abuse. A pre-existing parental prevention education program through Pittsburgh Action Against Rape works to give parents knowledge in warning signs, bystander intervention, and prevention techniques for child sexual abuse. Quantitative surveys were given before and after the program. Qualitative interviews were conducted after the program to measure parents’ level of understanding and intent to implement prevention knowledge in their households. Parental Prevention Education 3 Introduction and Background Child sexual abuse (CSA) has long been known to be a serious issue. It is undeniable that abuse has long-term negative effects on children. The prevention of CSA has been studied thoroughly throughout the last several years. This present study is investigating the effectiveness of parental prevention education programs. To do this, it is essential to first investigate previous studies and information surrounding the subject. Perez-Fuentes, et al. (2013) studied more than 34,000 adults in the United States to statistically estimate the prevalence of CSA. They state that, “In the United States, child sexual abuse (CSA) affects approximately 16% of men and 25-27% of women.” Charles Johnson (2004) cautions that this number is most likely underestimated because of the knowledge that many victims never come forward. While the issue is known, its scope is often not fully realized. One of the biggest components of any CSA prevention program is teaching parents the warning signs of CSA. Dr. Lane Pullins and Jennifer Jones (2008), in their study Parental Knowledge of Child Sexual Abuse Symptoms, identify the warning signs with three main categories: medical symptoms, unusual sexual knowledge or behavior, and emotional and behavioral indicators. Under these broad categories, more specific symptoms include injuries to external genitals and signs of infection; unusual knowledge about sex, excessive sexual interest/behavior, pregnancy, and touching others’ sex parts; depression, anxiety, anger, and substance abuse (p. 8-9). In the described study, parents were randomly selected and asked to list as many sexual abuse symptoms as they could. Although the majority of parents were able to list at least one symptom in each category, “almost no parent listed symptoms related to sexual orientation, unusual attitudes about sex, or pregnancy” (Pullins&Jones 2008, p. 10). The researchers go on to explain that “fear, avoidance, and withdrawal from others was by far the most commonly cited symptom (86%), followed by depression (47%), and oppositional behavior (35%), all of which are cause for concern in general, but are highly nonspecific for sexual abuse” (Pullins&Jones 2008 p. 14). This study shows that although parents are aware the issues exist, they are unaware of the most important symptoms to look for. Parental prevention education programs should emphasize the physical symptoms as alarming warning signs, but also include emotional changes and sexual interest in the discussion. Parental Prevention Education 4 In prevention programs directed toward parents, it is important to explain who the typical perpetrator tends to be, as well as which children may be more vulnerable to abuse. According to Johnson (2004), a perpetrator is most often someone the child knows, with the parent being the abuser 45.3% of the time. David Finkelhor (2009) found in his study that only 14% of children are abused by someone they do not know. This means more than 80% of victims knew the perpetrator before they were abused. Further, Finkelhor explains that “child molesters are more likely to be educated and employed” (p. 172). Parents often think that their children will be abused by an uneducated, intimidating stranger, not a well-dressed educated neighbor or friend. Through interviews with incarcerated perpetrators, Johnson (2004) found that perpetrators “seek children who are available, easily manipulated, and have desirable physical attributes” (p. 466). Perhaps the most alarming finding of his study is summarized in one sentence: Perpetrators “claim to prefer seduction and gaining trust over coercion by becoming the child’s friend, playing games with them, and offering them gifts” (p. 466). From these studies, we can gather that most perpetrators are known to their victims and use grooming patterns to lure and harm them. When considering curricula for parental prevention education programs, this information should be heavily emphasized. Reppucci et al. (1989) also report that in prevention programs, “most intimate or long-term types of sexual abuse tend to be ignored as are specific discussions of molestation by parents. Also generally missing is the information that some ‘bad’ touches can actually feel ‘good’” (p. 1268). It is important to know who children disclose to, and if parents are discussing an openness for children to disclose abuse if it were to occur. If parents are not discussing this openly in the home, it will prevent communication if abuse were to occur. Communication in general is very important in preventing abuse. The more children talk to their parents, the more information they are equipped with to keep them safe and the more likely they are to talk about abuse or other issues if they do arise. Paula Schaeffer et al. (2011) found, through qualitative interviews with child victims, that children disclosed most often to their mothers (54.7%), followed by grandmothers (10%), and fathers and teachers (both 8%) (p. 347). These researchers also found that children disclose generally for three reasons: internal stimuli (ie. nightmares or guilt), facilitated disclosure (ie. questioned by parents or other individuals), and evidence of sexual abuse (ie. witness of abuse or physical evidence). In parental prevention Parental Prevention Education 5 education programs, it would be important to note these three reasons and to emphasize that parents should ask questions to facilitate an openness for disclosure and should be vigilant for physical and emotional warning signs, as previously discussed. Pittsburgh Action Against Rape (PAAR) is a non-profit organization that provides services for victims of sexual abuse in Pittsburgh and Allegheny County. PAAR has an extensive prevention team that works to prevent sexual violence from occurring. The team has prevention programs directed toward parents, children, college students, and organizations and schools. The parental prevention initiative that they run is known as “Parents in the Know." This educational program works to engage parents in preventing child sexual abuse. There are four two-hour sessions at a community center with up to fifteen parents. Given the mentioned findings, there are many prevention topics for parents to discuss with their children. Walsh et al. (2012) summarize many of these topics, most of which are included in the current Parents in the Know program of Pittsburgh Action Against Rape (PAAR). The Parents in the Know curriculum includes the following topics that are starred:  Building self-esteem  When it’s ok or not okay to have private parts touched*  Using anatomically correct terms for genitals*  Tell me or another trustworthy adult*  Their right to decide who touches their private parts*  Saying no if a person is touching and they don’t like it  Not going with strangers*  Telling me where they’re going  Identifying trustworthy adults*  Not taking gifts from strangers*  Touching their own private parts*  Listening to feelings to know if touch is ok  What to do if someone tried to tempt them with rewards  What to do if someone tries to make them keep secrets  What to do if someone is trying to touch private parts*  Someone they know or like could touch them Parental Prevention Education 6  What to do if someone shows them private parts  Being safe on the Internet*  It’s not okay for someone to take photos of private parts* Both Schober et al. (2011) and Reppucci et al. (1989) agree that most prevention programs revolve around child-directed programming. These programs often teach safety skills and awareness information to the children. Parental prevention programming has only recently started, when it was discovered that child-directed programming is ineffective. Finkelhor (2009) conducted a study that found that youth between ten and sixteen who completed two prevention programs showed no difference in abuse rates several years later compared to the control group who were not exposed to any prevention programs. Parental prevention education programs came about because it is now known that parents must be involved and that most children are not mature enough to implement prevention techniques themselves. While the literature is extensive on the impact of child-directed prevention programs and parent-directed prevention programs, there is little information on what prevention knowledge parents have coming into these programs. This information is essential to know what curricula and information should be delivered to parents. One study that did investigate this information begins to answer some of the questions I seek to answer, but still leaves some holes. Walsh et al. (2012) did a study in Australia on mother-child communication about CSA prevention. They found that “approximately two-thirds of mothers reported having discussed the issue with their children” (p. 407). They go on to explain the different prevention topics which are discussed earlier in this paper. While these researchers do investigate whether parents are talking about preventing abuse, they do not discuss parents’ knowledge of specific warning signs, what parents are talking to their kids about, and whether they specifically discuss prevention strategies. More studies of this nature need to conducted so that we can have a deeper understanding of parental prevention, which may be the most effective form of prevention regarding CSA. When creating, evaluating, and reforming parental prevention education programs, it is important to consider many factors. Warning signs, particularly sexual knowledge and physical symptoms, must be explained and discussed. It is vital to thoroughly discuss that the majority of the time, the perpetrator is someone the child knows. Furthermore, discussing CSA when a Parental Prevention Education 7 parent is the perpetrator, while uncomfortable, is essential. Discussing prevention techniques with parents is important to facilitate discussion within the household. The research shows that talking about what is normal and what is not, and what to do if something feels wrong, can decrease the instances of abuse. Finally, these programs need to discuss the importance of parents’ involvement in their child’s life as a whole. Children need help protecting themselves and parents’ guidance is essential. During Parents in the Know programs, parents are taught to identify warning signs of child sexual abuse. Some of these warning signs include unusual sexual behavior or knowledge, depression or withdrawing from others, physical symptoms, and spending a lot of time with one adult. Parents are encouraged to become active bystanders if they notice an abusive situation or think their child may be a victim. In addition, the importance of conversations is discussed. If parents have an open environment for discussion with their children, it is more likely the child will come forward about abuse or simply to ask questions if something does not seem right. Each week a different topic was covered, including boundaries, bystander intervention, healthy relationships, and healthy sexuality. Information was taught using role-playing, scenarios, tips, games, videos, and discussion. At the end of each session, each parent was given a “mini-op” which served as a homework assignment for the parent to complete with his or her child. These mini-ops were framed for the children and parent to work together. Assignments were usually on a coloring page with instructions to make lists or complete a role-play. The Parents in the Know session that was studied was conducted at the Family Care Connection in the Lawrenceville neighborhood of Pittsburgh with a group of 9-10 parents depending on the week. The sample size was fairly diverse with all female participants aged 25- 63. Participants were of different races and ethnicities and had different income levels. Children of participants were generally young with an average age of four. There were two participants who were taking the program for their young grandchildren since their children were too old to participate. Parental Prevention Education 8 Methods A mixed methods study was used to ensure the most descriptive results were found. A quantitative survey was given before and after the parent programs were administered and a qualitative interview was conducted after the programs to gain a further understanding of parents’ views and opinions of the program. The survey consisted of two parts. The first was a scenario in which the parent was asked what he or she would do if his or her uncle was giving kids special attention, allowing them to sit on his lap, and hugging them. Options included things from as simple as “keep watching your uncle” to “call the police.” Each option included a five point scale for the parents to choose from. The scale included the options definitely would not do this, unlikely to do this, might do this, and definitely would do this. This scenario was included on both the pre- and post-surveys. The second part of the survey consisted of a list of things to talk about with a child. Parents were asked if they talked about these activities with their children or not, and were given response options of yes (1) or no (0). The topics ranged from “what they like to do” to “how sex can cause pregnancy.” This list was also included in both the pre- and post-surveys. The survey was made up by PAAR in conjunction with Pennsylvania Coalition Against Rape (PCAR) and Drexel University School of Public Health. The pre- and post-surveys had been administered in the past to Parents in the Know programs but always in a longer form. The surveys had not been administered lately and results had not been studied in combination with qualitative interviews. The present study shortened the surveys to contain only the two aforementioned parts. The full survey had about ten parts and took a long time to complete. The interview protocol was formatted by Pittsburgh Action Against Rape and adapted for this study. Several questions were taken out from the original model and two new questions were added. Questions asked parents what they got out of the program and allowed for discussion of examples of successes and failures. The interviews were formatted in a “community conversation” style in which a focus group of five parents and the facilitators of the program discussed the questions together instead of having a rigid question-answer format. Parental Prevention Education 9 Results Survey results were analyzed by coding answers and analyzing statistically. Mean changes from pre- to post-survey answers were not as large as anticipated. For the scenario, most answers stayed the same with a mean answer between 3 and 4 for most questions on both the pre- and post-survey. Several questions did see a substantial change, including “Notify the host of the party” with a mean response of 3.444 on the pre-survey and 4.200 on the post-survey. Questions that involved confronting the uncle did increase slightly. “Talk with your uncle about your concerns,” “Ask your uncle about his behavior,” and “Explain to your uncle about why you are not comfortable with his behavior” increased from a mean of 3.333 to 3.700, 3.222 to 3.800, and 3.333 to 4.000 respectively. Part two of the surveys, asking parents if they talk to their children about certain topics, saw more significant changes. The biggest change was in “Proper names for their penis or vagina” which increased from a mean of 0.444 to 0.900. Almost twice as many parents were able to talk to their children about naming their body parts correctly. This is an important change because children who know the proper names for their body parts are less likely to be abused. Topics “What sex and sexual activities are” and “How sex causes pregnancy” increased slightly from a mean of 0.111 to 0.400 and 0.111 to 0.300. This small change is partially explained by the ages of children in the focus group. The mean age of children was 4 years old, which is not the target group for discussing sex and pregnancy in depth. However, this topic was covered in the program with a book on body parts and pregnancy given to parents for preschool aged children. A final important change was seen in the topic “Practicing what to do if an adult touches their private areas” with a mean change of 0.444 to 0.800. Although there were a few increases in recorded knowledge after the program was completed, many changes were statistically insignificant or nonexistent completely. For example, “What to do is an adult makes them uncomfortable” only increased from 0.667 to 0.800. In the scenario (Part 1), “Keep watching your uncle” went down from 4.667 to 4.00. The majority of the results followed a pattern of little to no change in response. Parental Prevention Education 10 Figure 1: Pre-Survey Data: Topics Discussed Between Parents and Children Figure 2: Post-Survey Data: Topics Discussed Between Parents and Children The reasoning for this change is potentially explained by an overconfidence on the pre- survey. The survey asks questions that assume an ability to parent well. Parents may have felt vulnerable at the beginning of the program and may have answered that they would do something even if in fact they may not have actually felt comfortable doing it. This response bias is due to the nature of the questions and the underlying tone of asking parents to evaluate their Parental Prevention Education 11 parenting skills. In addition, parents may have actually thought they were prepared to act correctly when the options were laid out in a hypothetical situation. What is known from the research is that is it easy for people to say that they will do something, but it is much harder to act on it when they are actually in the situation. One possible remedy to this bias in the research is to incorporate the respondent’s pre-survey answers in the post-survey format. For example, the researcher may give the respondent his or her initial pre-survey and give him or her the option to change the pre-survey response based on new knowledge gained. This would allow the respondent to evaluate his or her own responses and decide if there was response bias or not. Although this reincorporation method was not used in this study, the qualitative interviews were used to investigate the lack of change in the survey responses. Questions allowed parents to elaborate on how much they learned and if their opinions and views changed. Results from the interviews were generally promising with parents stating an increase in both knowledge and anticipation to act in the future. The interview results were coded according to themes including topics learned, improvements/suggestions for future programs, and talking with other adults. Topics learned in the program were of particular interest due to the desire to understand gains in knowledge, especially considering the lack of change in the surveys. Body awareness was one of the most discussed topic that parents learned and implemented into their parenting style. One parents said, “It definitely opened up the conversation more about body awareness and talking to my oldest about her personal space. Even the younger ones, what is private and what you can’t touch. So that was a good way to help me start that conversation.” Another said, “I started talking to them about the actual body part names. Like at first it was just private zone but using the words now and the actual names.” This conversation parents are having with their children is important because if children are openly communicating the names of body parts, a perpetrator is less likely to abuse them. The parents also discussed the importance of bystander intervention both with their children and with other peoples’ children. One parent said, “I would feel more guilty if I didn’t” intervene. Other parents cited the role plays as good practice for real life situations in which they may need to intervene. Parental Prevention Education 12 Throughout the conversation, parents discussed an increased awareness around the issue and a readiness for conversations in the future. A mother of a three year old stated, “I think the program makes you more aware to look at it with your own children than with everyone else. You’re sitting on the outside saying ok this happened to them. But you sit in the program and you go this actually could happen to my family.” One of the most important aspects of Parents in the Know is encouraging parents to communicate with their children. It is more important to talk and be open with children than it is to have all of the right answers. The facilitators of the program discussed emphasizing an openness for communication about any problems a child is having. Parents seemed to take this point seriously, with one parent saying, “I think it’s made it easier in a sense as to where you’re more prepared to talk about it as opposed to your kid just asking a question and you’re just completely caught off guard.” The parents in general discussed a readiness to talk to their children about abuse and healthy sexual behavior. Improvements and suggestions for future programs were of particular interest for PAAR because the organization is hoping to improve and expand Parents in the Know in the future. Parents discussed a desire for information on sex trafficking, domestic violence, and internet/technology safety. One parent discussed her concerns: “It’s so easy for kids, they have a cell phone and they give their numbers out to anyone.” A suggestion for future programs that was not discussed by parents but was noted by the researcher is to have more information on inter-familial and friend abuse. Parents throughout the program discussed “stranger danger” and the fear of their children being abused by strangers. However, the research indicates that the majority of child abuse perpetrators are someone the child knows well. When parents continually brought up abuse by strangers, a facilitator reminded the group, “But remember, strangers are only part of our problem. It’s easy to say strangers, but it’s rarely a stranger.” A parent responded by saying, “I told my daughter, if it’s not Mommy, Daddy, brother or sister, grandparents, anyone else, if they touch you inappropriately, you need to come tell us.” However, this kind of conversation has the underlying connotation that it is ok for the mother, father, siblings, or grandparents to abuse the child. This only leaves room for the child to disclose if it is someone outside of the immediate family. In fact, the research shows that the parent is the abuser more than 40% of the time. Information on inter-familial abuse needs to be heavily emphasized. It is an uncomfortable topic and hard to come to terms with. It is Parental Prevention Education 13 generally easier to think that a child will be abused by a complete stranger, rather than someone a parent knows, trusts, and loves. Another topic that should be discussed in future programs is information on different types of abuse. “Child sexual abuse” is often generalized into one term when in fact there are different types of abuse. The implications are mostly relevant in terms of teaching parents warning signs. A toddler who is being abused by his father will show different warning signs than a 13-year old who is in a manipulative, non-coercive abusive relationship with a 60-year old man. Finally parents discussed how they have been talking about this program and the information it provides with other parents. The participants, all female, discussed a general displeasure by their husbands. One mother’s husband was taken by surprise. She said, “Well it just sparked our conversation like you know how we’re going to talk to our children about these things and you know when she’s going to be ready. It wasn’t like he disagreed with it, he was just like ‘Oh my goodness.’” Three parents discussed their husbands reactions to the book that was given out, “Amazing Me.” The book was designed for preschoolers and discussed the names of body parts, how a baby is born, and healthy sexual behavior. The parents discussed: “My husband did not like that book.” “Yeah! I’m so glad my husband’s not the only one. He was like, ‘Yeah, it’s going on the top shelf for a while.’” “Mine said, ‘It’s too much, that’s too much.’” “Mine was like, ‘Why do they have to know all that? They’re not ready.’ And I was like, ‘Well the older one is.’ And he said, ‘No, no.’” These conversations are important to have and the fact that both parents were involved in these discussions is promising. Parental Prevention Education 14 Discussion The program was overall successful in preparing parents to have conversations with their children about abuse and healthy sexuality. Parents talked to their children about names for body parts and were more aware of the issue of child sexual abuse. In addition, parents are more equipped and feel more confident to intervene in situations where they think abuse may be possible. When thinking about expanding Parents in the Know and other parental educational programs, it is important to put less emphasis on abuse by strangers and more emphasis on inter- familial abuse, as it is the more common, less talked about type of abuse. Parents need guidance in figuring out how to come to terms with the reality that inter-familial abuse is common, and they need help knowing how to talk to their children about it. In addition, it would be useful to give back the pre-surveys to allow parents to reflect on how much they learned throughout the program. This study had several limitations. The sample size, although diverse, was very small. In addition, the participants were all from the same neighborhood and all already attended the community center. Parents from different geographic areas, income levels, and with children of different ages may show different results. In addition, the survey was relatively small with only two parts, which may not have allowed for an in-depth understanding of all of the issues surrounding child sexual abuse. Parental Prevention Education 15 Acknowledgements I would like to thank my faculty mentors Keith Caldwell and Dr. Yodit Betru for their never-ending support and guidance. They always had an answer to my questions and always pushed me in the right direction, even when I felt lost. I would also like to thank Julie Evans at PAAR for her support and for allowing me to complete this project, Jamie Posey-Woodson for facilitating the parent programs and meeting with me every week to talk about new ideas and progress, Laura Summers for meeting with me every week and always bringing in new perspectives, and Holly Hickling for overseeing everything and running great conversations with all of the Community-Based Research Fellows. I would like to thank all the other fellows for their input and dedication to their projects and the values of the fellowship. And lastly, I thank my parents for their ongoing love and support. Parental Prevention Education 16 References Finkelhor, D. (2009). The prevention of childhood sexual abuse. The Future of Children, 19 (2), 169-194. Finkelhor, D., et al. (1995). Victimization prevention programs for children: a follow-up. American Journal of Public Health, 85 (12), 1684-1689. Hunt, R & Walsh, K. (2011). Parents’ views about child sexual abuse prevention education: a systematic review. Australian Journal of Early Childhood, 36 (2), 63-76. Johnson, C. F. (2004). Child sexual abuse. The Lancet, 364, 462-470. Perez-Fuentes, G., et al. (2013). Prevalence and correlates of child sexual abuse: a national study. Comprehensive Psychiatry, 54 (1), 16-27. Pullins, L. G. Jones, J. D. (2008). Parental knowledge of child sexual abuse symptoms. Journal of Child Sexual Abuse, 15 (4), 1-18. Reppucci, N. D. & Haugaard, J. J. (1989). Prevention of child sexual abuse: myth or reality. American Psychologist, 44 (10), 1266-1275 Schaeffer, P., et al. (2011). Children’s disclosures of sexual abuse: learning from direct inquiry. Child Abuse and Neglect, 35, 343-352. Schober, D. J., et al. (2011). An empirical case study of a child sexual abuse prevention initiative in Georgia. Health Education Journal, 71 (3), 291-298. Walsh, K., et al. (2012). Mother-child communication about sexual abuse prevention. Journal of Child Sexual Abuse, 21 (4), 399-421. Parental Prevention Education 17 Appendix A: Survey Data Parental Prevention Education 18 Parental Prevention Education 19 Parental Prevention Education 20 Parental Prevention Education 21 Appendix B: Survey Mean Data Pre-Test Post-Test Parental Prevention Education 22 Pre-Test Post-Test Parental Prevention Education 23 Pre-Test Post-Test Parental Prevention Education 24 Appendix C: Graphs Figure 1: Scatterplot of Pre-survey responses Figure 2: Scatterplot of Post-Survey responses Parental Prevention Education 25 Appendix D: Interview Transcription Jamie: Saskia is going to be writing down your answers and it’s going to help us with the program and help us add on to our program, the next level of the parent program. And it’s going to help Saskia with her project that she’s doing so I’m going to turn it over to her. Do you want to ask the questions and I’ll write down the answers? Saskia: Sure, sounds good. Jamie: And is everyone ok with me recording the audio? It will just be your voice, not your face. Saskia: Is that ok? We’re using a tape recorder to record your answers. Group: Yes that’s alright, fine by me. Jamie: You can change your voice if you want to, if you don’t want to be identified. Saskia: And if you want to skip any questions that’s fine as well, you don’t have to feel like you have to answer every question or anything like that. Jamie: But we want as much feedback as you can give us. Saskia: So this is going to be a very open conversation. You guys can just sort of say whatever you want and it’s just a conversation setting style. Our first question is what did you enjoy the most about the workshops, if anything? 1: For me, it made me see things differently as far as my kids and how I should be looking out for my kids or what I should be talking to my kids about. It definitely opened up the conversation more about body awareness and talking to my oldest about her personal space. Even the younger ones, what is private and what you can’t touch. So that was a good way to help me start that conversation, especially the little ones. 2: I think the coloring books and all the workbook pages that you could share with the kids helped too. Saskia: Was it interactive and an easy way to work with them? 2: Right, yeah. Saskia: That’s good. 3: It definitely made me see that I’m not the only one that has my opinions. I was able to see other people’s opinions on it as well. 4: I agree with everything everybody said. And I liked the book that was given out. I forget the name of it. Group: Oh, yeah, Beautiful Me? 4: That was a very good book. Jamie: Amazing Me. 4: Amazing Me, yes. Saskia: Were there any topics in the program that you were previously unaware of or that surprised you? 4: How many kids go to strangers. Saskia: Like that video we watched? 4: Yes. Jamie: The statistics of 7 out of 10 will walk away with a stranger 4: Yes. Jamie: And out of 2 days of filming, only 12 people helped intervene to stop the luring in the park. 4: Yeah, those videos were very good, the video that we watched. Saskia: Anything else that you learned that you didn’t know before? Parental Prevention Education 26 5: How to talk to your kids about the different issues, you know going through the different scenarios, that was helpful. Filling out the bubbles was helping. Jamie: The bubble sheet? The disclosure bubbles? 5: Yeah, like if someone came to you, what would you say? 3: I don’t know that it made me more aware of more situations, I worked as a cop, so I’m very familiar with these topics, but it made me think more about it. Saskia: Like specific to your kids maybe? 3: Yeah, it made me think about bringing it to my home and to my daughter. Saskia: Was there anything that you wanted to get out of the workshops that you thought was missing? 4: You covered a lot. Saskia: There wasn’t anything that you would have liked to have learned that wasn’t in the workshops? 4: No it seemed to be all there. Jamie: When you hear that there is going to be a parent program on how to keep your kids safe what is your first take on what we’re going to be talking about? 1: Child safety. Jamie: What else? 1: Maybe child proofing your home. Saskia: So we talked about that briefly, right? Jamie: I’m just trying to figure out what comes to mind when people think of it. 4: Strangers, fires. Jamie: And just recently we started to add a part about a fire drill. This is something we never did at home. But this is important to have, you know those emergency drills for the home. How your family would take care of an emergency. What else did you think it would be about? 1: Maybe drugs and alcohol. Jamie: And when you say drugs and alcohol, is that effects of drugs and alcohol or is that how to keep your kids safe from drugs and alcohol because I think we talked a little bit about that. 1: Yeah, also if you have even stuff in the medicine cabinet, talk to them about that. If you have any kind of alcohol in the home, all of that should really be locked up when you have little kids in the home. Your household chemicals. Saskia: Now what about specifically relating to sexual abuse. When you heard the program was from Pittsburgh Action Against Rape what did you think we might be talking about? Jamie: Or you might not have known that PAAR meant that. Some people don’t. You might not know that till I come. So did some of you know? Or did you think we would be talking about sexual abuse? 5: No I thought physical abuse. Saskia: Do you think that’s important to talk about as well? Group: Yes. 3: I think an important to talk about with either sex, you know male or female, you male to male or female to female. It’s not just male female, gender specific. Saskia: I think that’s important too. I think a lot of times people just assume it’s a man abusing a woman. Jamie: So we’re talking about same-sex relationships. 3: And even female to male you know it’s not always the male as the aggressor. Parental Prevention Education 27 Saskia: Right. 3: It’s not always an adult that’s the aggressor either, it’s other kids. Saskia: The other kids, that’s something that’s happening. Now what about abuse within the family? Is that something that you had thought about before? 5: Sexual abuse? Saskia: Yes, sexual abuse within the family? 5: Yeah that’s something I think about. A lot of that stuff occurs within the family. Saskia: So was that surprising to you or did you already know that? 5: No I knew that. Saskia: You knew that? 5: Yeah. Jamie: You knew about the statistic of it being 83-83% of people that are victimized are victimized by people that they know? 30% of those folks are actually relatives. Saskia: And where did you know that information from? Was it from the media or somewhere else? 5: From the media. Saskia: So you knew how prevalent it was because it’s been talked about so much recently? 3: From my prior training in working in emergency services, I’m still an EMT. And even being that, you see you know, when you do that you see that. Saskia: Right…Ok. So is there anything you’re doing differently now that you weren’t doing before the workshops? 4: I was talking to my grandson about what a stranger was. He’s 3 and a half. He doesn’t quite get it but he knows the word now and he’s got an inkling of what it is. Saskia: Ok. 3: Abby’s still young but I’m still even moreso than I was, “You can’t say hi to someone unless it’s ok.” 5: See my problem with that is you don’t want to scare them. 3: She’s so young. 5: “Don’t talk to strangers!” Then they’re scared of everyone. 3: I let her wave to people at this point. And say hi when I say it’s ok and only let her go close to somebody if I say it’s ok. Cause it’s hard, like when we went to the nursing home yesterday, how do I tell her? They’re all strangers! How do you tell her they’re strangers but it’s ok to talk to them? So I continuously turned around and said “it’s ok, Mommy says it’s ok. They’re safe.” Just to reinforce when Mommy says it’s ok, we can go up and shake their hand or give them a hug. But when we’re in the store, it’s kinda like backing off a little bit to letting her say hi because everybody comes up to her like “Hi!” and I’m like “Ok don’t touch her.” And I’m trying to instill that but it’s really hard when you have other people who don’t help too. Saskia: Right. 3: But I’m telling her that “Hey if Mommy doesn’t say it’s ok, don’t do it.” 4: Yeah I told my grandson, a stranger is someone you don’t know and just do not go alone with anybody that you don’t know. If somebody says “Oh hi, you’re so cute, let me show you something.” No, I said no, just go to whoever you’re with, whether it’s his parents or myself. For right now, that’s what I tell him. Saskia: Right. It’s good keeping it simple so he can understand it. Jamie: Did we talk about code words? Parental Prevention Education 28 Group: No. Jamie: So you can give your child a code word so they can always know. People who try to tell children they’re here to pick them up, like your mom told me to. You know what I mean? And so our children are very vulnerable. 3: My mom always did that. “Here’s your secret word. Don’t tell anybody. They only people that can pick you up is if they have this word.” Jamie: Right. 3: Like pizza. It was something stupid honest to goodness it was like a stupid off the wall word. Before I left the house, my mom said “If they don’t say the word green, you don’t go with them today.” And she changed it every once in a while so it wasn’t always the same thing, but if there was someone coming to pick us up from school or from the park, they had to say that word to you. Saskia: Yeah that’s a good idea. 3: So you know that they have talked to your parents. Jamie: I don’t even think other people can pick other people’s kids up anymore. 3: You have to be on the emergency contact list. 5: Even at my daughter’s school, we had to write a note saying it was ok. 3: Up at Woolslayer, my best friend has a kid there and my husband had to pick up her son. It was an emergency, she has heart problems and she called and said “Hey can one of you pick up my son?” And I said “Are they going to let us?” She actually had to call the school and put my husband on the emergency contact list. Since they she has put both of us on the list. That’s the only way you can pick up if you’re on the emergency contact list. So at school, you know if they can’t get ahold of them, we’re on the list at the bottom under like 10 emergency contacts. Saskia: Right. 3: Which is good for the school, but it is hard, like oh you have to be on the emergency contact list so they have all of our information. Saskia: Right. 4: Not when I was growing up. Jamie: Yeah, anybody could pick anybody up. Saskia: So going back to how you might do things differently now, what about talking to your kids? Like have to talked to them about anything that maybe you didn’t talk to them about before? 1: I started talking to them about the actual body part names. Like at first it was just private zone but using the words now and the actual names with that book. 3: It’s hard because Abby’s just learning her words and her body parts. She still runs around naked. I did teach her her boobs and so she will yell “Boobies!” But at least she knows what they are and it’s part of her body. She’s just discovering other body parts now. It’s hard because she doesn’t understand when you try to tell her. She looks at you like… Jamie: Like “It’s got a name?” 3: Yeah and it’s just like stop. Of course the first time dad heard he was like “What are you teaching her?” 1: That’s something I didn’t know. Going back to that other question. You said kids who know their body part names are less likely to be abused. Jamie: Yes. Because they’re openly communicating the names of the body part and they’re comfortable with saying it. You know, it’s not a secret, it’s what it is. It’s just like saying it’s Parental Prevention Education 29 your arm. Really it’s the adults’ problem. Kids can deal with it. It’s our issue of how we, you know of course it’s always developmentally appropriate. When you feel it’s time not cause I came in here and said something, you work at it and do what makes you feel comfortable. You can teach your children how to do that. 1: That must be hard on the perpetrator though, like the kids “You just touched my vagina!” Like, what? Group: Laughs Jamie: Get out of there. 1: My daughter is loud too. Saskia: That’s good! 4: Yeah my grandson, he knows the body parts but he doesn’t get the vagina part. Group: Laughs 5: Because he doesn’t have one that’s why! 4: Yeah, I told him the other day. I mean his parents taught him that he has a penis, they’re teaching him the right words. But I said to him you know “There’s a difference between a boy and a girl. A boy has a penis” he understands that “And a girl has a vagina.” And he just like looked at me, you know. And he said “No.” Jamie: I should have brought this video of like 6 children and their parents are teaching them about sex and they’re like in between 5: Oh I’ve seen that! Jamie: Did you? Oh I loved the little boy who was like “Ohhhh” and he was scared. It was so funny! And then the dad said “The vagina’s like a pocket and I have to put my penis in the pocket” and the girl said “Eww.” I didn’t know why he did that. 5: The little boy who knew everything. Jamie: Oh yeah he knew too much! Saskia: Yeah from his brother. Jamie: “Who’s telling you all this?” Saskia: So is there anything else you’re talking to your kids about that you didn’t talk to them about before? Jamie: Do you think you’re more prepared to have conversations that might be hard. Group: Yes Jamie: So it might even be like the preparations for when hard topics come up. Like when we did the assessing your comfort. That’s an exercise for when people think “well that’s not something I’m dealing with right now.” We came up with a list for parents of things they will have to deal with for the whole 18 years. Now I got my daughter living with me right now and she’s 36 so I’m just saying. She kinda really is over 18. There’s some people that keep coming back. So you know we put a range of stuff on there like sexual activity. You know that’s a conversation you’re going to have to have. You might not be having it at 18 months but that’s a conversation you’re going to have to have. You do not want someone else having that conversation with your child or showing them. Like we said before, people that are comfortable with talking about this stuff are better off. There are people out there who are willing to give that information away and tell you how to do it and show you how to do it so I think we need to be the main people teaching our children stuff about sexual abuse prevention, sexuality, healthy sexuality, all of those things that we want to be the leaders in teaching our children about. So maybe you just got a little more comfortable if those conversations come up, you’ll do something. What about being a bystander? Parental Prevention Education 30 Do you think by watching and going through the whole bystander intervention and watching the whole Katie was at the park? Do you think you’re more likely? First of all you’re probably paying closer attention. There’s no way that through this program your lens doesn’t change. You’re not paranoid. You just know there’s more things out there. 4: You’re more aware. 3: I think the program makes you more aware to look at it with your own children than with everyone else. You’re sitting on the outside saying ok this happened to them. But you sit in this program and you go this actually could happen to my family. Saskia: That’s a good point. 3: The whole it’s not going to happen to me. Jamie: Almost like when we hear those things, like Saskia asked the question like what did you learn? So yeah you heard about things happening to children, children being abducted, sexually abused, taking them all and raping them, killing them, but you never thought that that could happen to me in my home. So it kinda brings it home like it’s not just out here. There’s some thing we need to do to keep ourselves safe. Saskia: Ok, so do you think, either if you have made some of these changes or if you’re waiting till your kids get a little bit older, has it been easy, or will it be easy to make these changes in your life? Especially with the way you talk to your kids and having those difficult conversations. 1: I think it’s made it easier in a sense as to where you’re more prepared to talk about it as opposed to your kid just asking a question and you’re just completely caught off guard. Saskia: Right, so you’re like ready to respond? 1: I mean it’s not an easy conversation, but at least, you know, you can prepare for it. Jamie: I don’t want to keep saying stuff, but I’m gonna keep saying stuff. So it’s not an easy conversation like you said but you’re more prepared to have it and remember too you don’t have to have all the answers right away and you only have to have limited information. So whatever they’re asking, as long as we give just enough information like if the child is asking where did I come from and you think that means he’s ready to have the whole sex talk and really he might mean am I German, am I African American, am I Chinese, he might just be trying to figure out what his nationality is versus you know did I actually come out of the vagina so you have to ask clarifying questions to figure out exactly what they’re asking then give them the information that’s developmentally appropriate for that time and then you have a monitor to know if your child is asking you questions that you think are beyond their scope or beyond what you taught then you would know something is up like “where are you getting that information from” like that guy who was asking his son all those questions and he was like “my brother told me.” Of course you would know that if it was a sibling but it might be an outside person not in your home. Could be from school or daycare or wherever. So you need to know that there are other people who could be teaching your child something you don’t feel they’re ready for. Saskia: And do you feel like you are more prepared to be an active bystander if you saw something was going on with either your kid or a different kid? 4: I would feel more guilty if I didn’t. Jamie: So you think you’re more likely to intervene? 4: Yes. I feel like a conviction if I didn’t Jamie: Like “Why didn’t I stop? Why didn’t I do anything?” 4: Right. Saskia: Yeah Parental Prevention Education 31 Jamie: And that’s another layer of awareness that we were trying to provoke you know our world is changing and I know that there’s a lot going on and people see a lot more than they think they see and we become desensitized, but that’s big we need to be saying something. Saskia: So going off that question a little bit, have you talked to any other parents about what you’ve learned or how you’ve changed your behavior? 4: I’ve talked a little bit to my son. And you know he lives with them and they have all the information, the book and everything. 1: I talked to my husband about it. Saskia: What did he think? 1: Umm Jamie: You never know with the husbands 1: Well it just sparked our conversation like you know how we’re going to talk to our children about these things and yo know when she’s going to be ready. It wasn’t like he disagreed with it, it was just like “Oh my goodness.” 5: My husband did not like that book. 3: Yeah! I’m so glad my husband’s not the only one. He was like “Yeah, it’s going on the top shelf for a while.” 1: That’s too much, that’s too much. 5: Mine was like “Why do they have to know all that? They’re not ready.” And I was like well the older one is. And he said “No, no.” Jamie: How old is the older one? 5: 8. Jamie: 8? Yeah, so it says preschool aged. 5: Right so he’s wrong. Jamie: Is it the pictures? Tell me a little about what the problem is. 3: I think my husband, it’s the pictures. It’s so in detail. If it was just explaining it right now it might be ok but the pictures, I think that just makes him a little uncomfortable. She’s daddy’s little girl so. Jamie: Oh so do you think it would be different if you had a boy? 5: I don’t think it would be. Saskia: It’s just so funny that it’s the dads that are so Jamie: Protective. 3: Me and my husband have already had a conversation about this because there is a history in the family so we’ve already had the conversation of how to teach her and what to do. Like when we are around family members we never take our eye off of her. She’s never alone with them you know, as a precaution. So this kinda reinforced it again, like gave it a different way to handle it. Cause you know I easily fly off the handle, I’m very opinionated when it comes to this so especially because there is a history in the family, it gave me a different way to handle it and a few more things to look at and to talk about. Saskia: That’s good. 3: I know with her pageants, I know with the other moms there’s a lot of concern for foreign pages that are adding us on facebook just spying on our kids in pageants. Jamie: Oh really? Talk to me about that. 3: We’ve all been talking about that. It’s kinda scary because they’re like foreign people, there’s people from China and all over the place. But they could be fake profiles, we’re not sure but Parental Prevention Education 32 they’re men that are preying on these young girls. Well I can’t say they’re so much preying but they want to see the pictures. So us as pageant moms we had to really watch who we allow on our facebook pages, all the resale pages have been privatized because these crazy people were coming on to see kids in dresses. And they do sell bathing suits and stuff I mean they’re not that revealing but there’s still a lot of strange requests, just to pageant moms. We’ve all been talking and all the requests were going to the same people to the pageant moms. And then there were a couple moms who aren’t pageant moms who never got the requests and all of us had had a picture of our pageant child as our profile picture and they were trying to add us just to you know. So when we talked about online and protecting our kids more protected and secure, so they’re not stealing our pictures, that was helpful. Jamie: That’s good to know. Even when we had that conversation and people had different opinions, it still sparked the conversation about it, because I think that can lead right into facebook pages, going on there. 3: It’s really easy to steal pictures off facebook. I got lucky and had my pictures pretty protected. Some of the moms didn’t know that and had their pictures stolen and put on this strange guy’s site. We had to fight with facebook to get it taken off. 4: How did they find out? 3: We seen it. He started friend requesting and sharing the pictures. And they were sharing pictures from the resale pages. We try to resell our clothing to each other and just have a little way to save money but now they’re stealing our pictures and we have to be more careful. Jamie: So your pages weren’t private? 3: Some weren’t, because you want other pageant moms on there. But now we’ve had to private them and have to actually accept people who join the pages because there’s so many people who have stolen pictures. It was just recently that it’s picked up. Jamie: There was a woman at a parent program who was asking about the Ramsy case. Then I was thinking about the TV show with the little girls. 3: Toddlers and Tiaras. I will say that I know for a fact that it’s actually fake. It’s pageants, but it’s fake. They were paid to make it look more appealing. Jamie: Appealing? It looked like abuse to me. They were going after those girls and then some of the children, the way they were talking back to their parents disrespectfully, and like it was ok, like they had accepted that. That was a little disturbing as well. 4: Honey Boo Boo, that name just came to me. Saskia: Alright so, going back to talking to your kids, I know some of you have younger kids, but if you have older kids, or even if you have younger kids, how have they reacted to the things you’re telling them, like talking about their body parts and stuff like that? 1: Mine love it, especially that book. For some reason, she’s just like “Let’s read it!” And I’m like ok! Jamie: It’s interesting, you know she wants to know about herself. Saskia: Right I mean they’re interested. So were you the one to bring it up or did she bring it up? 1: Well she had brought it up before, like way before this program, but you know, I had told her the names of the body parts. Well at first I just referred to it as the private zone, and “No go tell” you know, say no to someone who’s touching your private zone, then you tell someone about it. So she had heard that before. Saskia: Anyone else kid’s have reactions? Parental Prevention Education 33 5: Well like I said with my younger she’s obsessed now with her vagina. She likes to walk around like “I love my vagina.” She knows she has a vagina. My son’s always known he has a penis. My oldest, she’s interested in it, but she doesn’t want to talk about it. Like if I talk about it she goes “Mom! Don’t use that word.” And I’m like “That’s what it is.” Meanwhile she has a different book you know a transitional “Your Body Changes” and she loves to read it over and over and over again. So I know she’s interested in it, she’s just not asking as many questions as I would like. But she comes to me every once in a while, like if she’s stuck on something, “What if I’m at school when I get my period?” That’s the big one now. Saskia: That’s really good that she’s talking to you about it now though. 3: Abby’s just discovering parts now. She still takes a bath or shower with me and she’ll point to my parts and be like “This?” and I’m like “Look you’ve got the same thing” and she doesn’t understand and she’ll poke me and look at me and her new thing is “Huh?” then she laughs, she thinks it’s funny, even if you tell her what it is. She just stares at you, I think she’s comprehending. She can’t pronounce everything yet. Saskia: Now what about, we had talked about having those conversations with you know saying no to a stranger or abusive situations, how have they reacted to those kinds of talks? 4: My grandson, with the word stranger, you can tell he’s trying to understand, and he’s interested. So, you know he’ll get it soon. Jamie: Right, we just introduce it and we gotta keep following up. 4: But the other day he did say to me, he pointed to someone and said “Stranger.” It wasn’t a stranger though. So I had to tell him “That’s someone you know.” Jamie: Ok, he’s trying it out. 4: Yes. Jamie: You know the best video I’ve seen that shows the stranger part is Kindergarten Cop. There’s a couple reasons I like it. One is the part where it shows the dad and he’s trying to figure out who is your daddy and what does he do? So the one little boy says “My daddy looks at vaginas all day long.” And he’s a gynecologist. And the other kid says “My mom says my dad is a really sex machine.” Now he didn’t know what he did, but anyway with the guy who’s trying to get the little boy and shows up to the school, but they see him and they all yell “Stranger!” That’s so good. 4: I haven’t seen that in so long. 5: There’s also a part with girls have vaginas and boys have pensises. Jamie: I went and bought it at the Exchange so you can easily show your kids about body parts and stuff like that. But remember, strangers are only part of our problem. It’s easy to say strangers. 3: Everyone I come across, everyone keeps going strangers. It’s not always the strangers who do it. Jamie: It’s rarely a stranger. 3: We don’t realize, really it’s not the strangers who do it, it’s the people who are close to us. Saskia: So have you guys had that conversation with any of your kids? Jamie: Yeah, because we can talk pretty much easily about strangers. Saskia: Right, strangers are easy. Jamie: So you can just say: anybody. 3: In our house, we tell her, she’s not allowed alone with anybody. Even now, we tell her that. As she grows up she’s gonna learn. She won’t be allowed with family members. She’s not gonna Parental Prevention Education 34 understand it because of the other side. Because on the other side she can go with them. But on this side, she cannot. So I’d rather she start learning now that you can’t be alone with them. Jamie: Now, do ya’ll need to do something about that person? Do they need to be removed from the house? Or is it something you can’t do? 3: It’s something we can’t do. Jamie: Ok. 3: I mean trust me, in a heartbeat I would. It was when she was born I found out and I wanted to but because of the relationship in the family, I can’t. There’s just no way to remove him completely. It just is not going to happen. If I had my choice, she wouldn’t have anything to do with him. Jamie: So when she gets to an age where she’s able to say why, what will you say? You don’t have to say if you don’t want. 3: She’s not going to know verbatim what happened, but she will know what happened. Jamie: So you won’t go into detail. 3: No, we’ll just say it’s not safe and he did things that are very inappropriate. She doesn’t need to know details. She doesn’t need to know. She just needs to know it’s not safe and that we don’t want it to happen to her. Jamie: Ok. Saskia: Right. Now what about a more general conversation sort of saying even someone you know, even if you don’t know someone specifically, like in your case you’re talking about one person specifically, but what about talking about just in general, there could be someone you know that could still hurt you? Have you had that conversation? 1: I told my daughter, if it’s not Mommy, Daddy, borther or sister, grandparents, anyone else, if they touch you inappropriately, you need to come tell us. Saskia: Right. 1: Someone’s not changing your diaper or helping you with the potty. So I told her specific names for now, I didn’t mention aunts and uncles because that’s too much, plus you know it could be an aunt or an uncle. I wouldn’t think it would be but for now I just told her immediate family, no one else should be touching you. 3: You know what she said is scary, that we all have that. It shouldn’t be. But unfortunately it happens. 4: Yeah my grandson that’s 3, the only thing I said to him was, if you ever feel uncomfortable, if anyone ever makes you feel uncomfortable, if you ever feel uncomfortable with someone, you tell mom and dad and that’s as far as I’ve gotten there. It’s funny though, you know he’s 3 1/2 , the other day he was telling me that he doesn’t like the IRS. Group: Laughs 4: And I go “What do you mean you don’t like the IRS?” And he goes, we were in the car, and he goes “That man was looking at me.” We were going to Walgreens in Frankstown and I said “What man?” and he said “I don’t like the IRS.” And what the heck? I thought maybe his parents were talking about filing their income taxes or something you know. Here it’s somebody on television. Some commercial he saw about the IRS. And he said to me “That man in the TV was looking at me.” Group: Laughs 4: You know he didn’t realize. In his mind, he thinks people can come out of the television. Jamie: Right. Parental Prevention Education 35 4: I said “Honey that’s a television, they’re in there.” He understands sound waves, so I’m like “Those are sound waves. He cannot come through the TV and get you.” Group: Aww. 4: My niece, when she was 5, she’s almost 30 now, I took her to see Beetle Juice. Group: Oh no! 4: I didn’t know, I wasn’t thinking. It was in Oakland, it was a theater in Oakland, she starts screaming like crazy. I thought she would think it was funny. But when the movie started she started screaming and we had to leave. 5: The older kids maybe, but not the younger ones. Jamie: Ok we should get back to what we were talking about. 2: I think for Ava and her sister, we’ve told her “Besides your mom and myself, cause I’m grandma, the only other person that can touch you is the doctor when he’s examining you.” Saskia: So just making it real clear, like this is who can touch you and this is who cannot. 5: I tell them, even daddy is not allowed to touch you. Like he can’t help you get dressed or anything. I’m like no, it’s only mommy, and grandma, and the doctor. Jamie: When we individualize, we’re different parents. I just want us all to be aware. Ya’ll make your own rules about how you do stuff. Saskia: Ok last question, which we kind of touched on before. Are there any other issues about parenting or child safety that you want to learn more about? Or any other ways that PAAR could reach out to you? Jamie: Is there something we want to learn more about? This can really start my conversation now, which is say um we could continue on to teach the parenting class, what other topics would you want to know about? 1: I don’t know how common it is, but I saw an article on sex trafficking. I don’t know if that’s something we could talk about and how that works the same way as any of the other sexual abuse. 4: That’s a good one. Jamie: Now this is something definitely that we could possibly talk about and I would use, there’s a couple movies out. Did you ever see “Taken”? Group: Yes. Jamie: Where his daughter is a teenager and she hooks up with her teenage friend and they go to Paris. And they hook up with someone in the airport who then is the one who asks them to share a cab. And they’re thinking they’re saving money and then they go. And then he sends the people there and they kidnap them and yes that’s exactly how sex trafficking works. And the fact that people fly to places where dramatic things are happening, like the tsunami, Hurricane Katrina. People actually went there to find people who were displaced for the specific reason of sex trafficking. 4: That’s a big one now adays, sex trafficking. Jamie: There’s a couple of Law and Orders that we could use, where they have their children chained up in the basement. There were African American children and children of all nationalities that people could say what they wanted. They wanted a 7 year old that had brown hair and blue eyes. Yes, anything else? 3: I think more about the online safety, you know Facebook. That’s a big thing right now. Facebook, and anything online. And texting, I was going to say that next. You know, cell phone safety. It’s so easy for kids, they have a cell phone and they give their numbers out. And the Parental Prevention Education 36 other thing is teachers in schools. Right now there’s a lot of teachers going after students. It sounds werird but. Saskia: Yeah there was just something in the news yesterday. Was it Plum? Jamie: Plum, yes. The child was 18, so that’s what they’re trying to base everything on is that the child was 18. The age of consent is 16 in the state. But unless they have some type of clause where they can’t fraternize with people in the same building, there’s nothing that’s probably going to happen to him. Saskia: Well how much older was he? Oh she was 18. Jamie: Yeah she was 18. And that’s what the lawyers were saying when they were talking to him. It’s a consent thing. 3: Don’t schools have a rule that teachers can associate? I think there needs to be more of that. You know, even though she’s 18, you can’t be going out and doing this type of stuff with a student. After school’s out, you know after they graduate, then there’s not much they can do. But while they’re in school, there’s a lot of kids I can’t say they’ve been held back but, there’s a lot of kids who are 18 now at senior year that this is happening with and I think the schools need to implement something as well that you know we can’t, they can’t socialize like that. It’s getting hard on teachers too, I know a lot of teachers in high school you can email them if you had a question about your homework, so it makes it hard how you can differentiate between the 2. 1: Yeah, he’s like teaching and the kids will email him you know, “oh I missed class, what’s my homework?” You know that’s how it is? The teachers have to do that? 5: I mean that’s what the internet’s for right? 1: They have plenty of classmates though. Jamie: Would you want to have a specific training on online safety? Group: Collective yes Jamie: Like we could probably get someone from PAAR to come and do the whole, like the whole time would be spent on it. Pull the computer up and show you everything. 3: I think that would be a very good thing for a lot of people that aren’t familiar with the internet. 4: Absolutely. 3: Because that would be very helpful to a lot of older generations. The younger generations are learning so fast. These kids seem to know so much more than we do. I mean I grew up around the computer and I know a lot about the computer but I swear to God my daughter knows more about that iPad than I do at this point. And she’s only 18 months. Jamie: My granddaughter’s talking about apps. She’s 6. And I’m like “What are you talking about apps for?” Cause she knows how to download the games on the iPad and yeah they know way more than we ever knew. And this technology thing, it’s huge, I mean it’s endless. It’s big. And when the lights go out, if our electric goes off at our work, people will go home. Like “What am I gonna do?” If the computers running slow, you can hear people in their offices “This thing is slower than molasses in July.” So, we’re dependent on it. We rely on it for so many things. Oh I want to pass this around, this is my resource guide. I want you to look at it, pass it around. I’ll give you a copy when I do the final version. That’s the one that got the pictures on it. What I was trying to do was think about different resources. Do you think that would be useful? I gave ya’ll the internet slang, the 25 things that parents should know, and I showed you the dictionary, 92 pages. I was trying to come up with TV shows. Ya’ll sparked my conversation on that, to add the TV shows, remember I started to write them down because you were telling me some of the things that your children watch? Parental Prevention Education 37 3: I think that parents to have a resource to go to and have a way to find stuff, they can use that to teach their kid. They can pick and choose what they want to use to teach their children. Saskia: Right. 3: You know if they have the resources available to them easier than having to online search for them, then I think that would also be more incentive for parents to actually go do it because instead of taking the time to find the resources, it’s right there in front of them. Jamie: Let’s talk about the Incredibles, because I love the Incredibles. That’s a parenting movie, the relationship was doing something, they all had to keep their superpowers secret. 3: There’s another Tv show Doc McStuffen, I don’t know if anybody watched it. It’s a mom and a girl, the mom’s a doctor and Doc is the stuffed animal doctor. And she always goes “Mom what do I do? How can I help this?” So there’s her being like her mom. I only know because we’re a Doc McStuffen home. And her brother, she’s always fixing her brother’s toys. 4: There’s a TV show, Up All Night. I haven’t seen it. Jamie: Oh Up All Night, those are the three parenting teaching TV shows, I got that offline. You can go on Youtube and see little pieces of it. I’ve never watched it But even Modern Family, they’re saying that that is a good teaching tool for parents, like it’s about conversations. It’s not about teaching your child certain things. Group: Yeah. 3: I guess so because Modern Family it has the gay couple it has all of it, the older couple, it has it all. Jamie: Yes. So that’s the conversation about same sex relationships, the conversation about step fathers, new baby. 3: Parenthood, well they just went off the air. Jamie: I know, what happened? 3: I don’t know. I didn’t like the ending though. 4: Cole’s afraid of the Incredibles. 5: What? 4: Yeah. Jamie: Oh I love Dash. 4: Oh me too. Jamie: That part of the movie where he figures out how fast he can go, I just love it. 4: I know. It freaks him out. Group: Laughs Jamie: So anything else we could add? Saskia: I just want to throw one thing out there. We talked about this a little bit, but I don’t know if this is something you guys might be more interested in. there’s different types of abuse. A lot of people think of rape, and people kind of generalize like child sexual abuse. But there’s times when there’s pre-teens and very young teens who might get in a situation with an older person where it’s not coercive anymore because they’re being manipulated. So that might show different warning signs than someone who’s being forced into having sex with someone. So I think that’s something that’s important. 3: And the fact that there’s physical, verbal, you know all the different types of abuse. Saskia: Right. 3: You know, instead of us all just thinking, physical abuse. Parental Prevention Education 38 Saskia: Exactly, there’s a lot of emotional components that tie into it. I think that might be something important. Jamie: And it sounds like domestic violence too. Group: Yes. Jamie: Did anyone watch the Grammy’s? Group: No. Jamie: I didn’t see it either. But I saw online that the President said something about domestic violence and then a survivor spoke about domestic violence. 3: I’ve been through it, I’ve actually talked here about it. 4: You’ve been through domestic violence? 3: Yeah. My ex-husband threw me across the room and when I called the police, I accidentally messed up. Jamie: Is he in jail? 3: No, um there’s a lot of circumstances behind it. Everyone questions why. But, I locked us out of the house fighting by accident and I went to take off and he threw a brick at me. The police, I worked as a cop at the time, and I was on my way out the door to go to work when he grabbed me and threw me across the kitchen and then he ended up taking off outside and I went outside, and that’s when I realized the door was locked and that’s when he threw the brick at me. And the police actually turned around and refused to arrest him, refused to cite him. I actually had a broken finger and my knee was all bruised and everything. And they turned around. He was 236 pounds. At the time I was 100 pounds soaking yet. They tried to say, he tried to say that I grabbed his foot and tried to pull him across the room. Now you’re looking at a 236 pound built man because he was in the army. And not to say that I was weak or anything, but I was 100 pounds soaking wet and they tried to say “well he had a mark on his head” meanwhile he had actually taken his hoodie and done it himself. I never touched him because I couldn’t. I literally had a broken finger. And I’ll be honest. I was armed, being that I was a cop. I was going to do undercover work because I worked with the narcotics team at the time so I was armed and I even said to the police, “Why would I even bother dragging him across the room when I had a gun?” I never once touched him. As much as I had every right to pull my gun an protect myself, I never did. But they refused to cite him until I went in the next day. They wouldn’t even give me a PFA, because the police would not stand by me. Even being that I worked with them. It was 2 older cops. One cop said he would do it. The other one he flat out said he didn’t want to do the paper work so he refused to do it. 4: How’d you get out of the relationship? 3: I up and moved out. Jamie: Do you think that there are a lot of police that don’t want to deal with domestic violence? 3: From working as a cop and seeing other officers, yes. It’s a very hard situation to deal with. You’re coming from not being involved. Looking at it as if I hadn’t been there myself, it’s very hard to deal with because it’s very hard to judge what actually happened. I was very ontop of it, especially once it happened to me because there was a lot of emotion involved. The next few weeks after it happened, I didn’t want to deal with it. Because I was scared. It’s emotional. And a lot of women, even men, turn around and don’t want to deal with it because they’re afraid to. And as an officer you have to I can’t say talk them into it, but you gotta try to get them to realize that it’s not gonna get better. And I only knew that because I had been through it myself and was able to share my story, but it took me a long time. It actually took another officer I worked with, Parental Prevention Education 39 because I didn’t tell anybody for the longest time, even dealing with several domestic violences. It took, my partner just flat out said, to a lady who had been thrown down the steps “She’s been involved with it.” She kinda threw me under the bus and said “Lookk, she’s been there.” Because the lady was saying “You don’t understand.” And so she turned around and said that. But not all officers understand that and not all officers are going to do that. 4: You get that in every group though. 1: Do the cops have to do the investigating though? Or can you hire an investigator to do that? 3: That’s the hard part. The cop has to determine who the aggressor is. And now the law is if you have brusies and marks on you. Here’s the problem though. I had a man and a woman who had both beaten the crap out of each other. Now what do I do? I ended up taking them both to jail. Both charged with domestic violence and let the judge deal with it. You can’t tell who actually was the aggressor. She could have been standing up for herself and made the marks on him. It’s another reason why cops sometimes say “You know what, you two handle it, I’m leaving.” It’s not the right thing to do. Jamie: They wouldn’t have called you if they could work it out! 3: My opinion is that cops that do that, you know it’s hard, but they just don’t want to do what they have to do. 4: Do they get training in domestic violence? 3: Some do but some don’t. And that’s the problem. Not all officers get the correct training. Jamie: I heard that they would rather deal with any other call than a domestic violence. 4: I did too. Jamie: First of all they don’t know what they’re dealing with. They don’t know what they’re coming up on. Like the guy who shot all the people up there in Stanton Heights. That was supposed to be a domestic, they just left out that he was armed. That was crazy, that was an extreme case. But that was a domestic call. The mom was saying her son was going off or whatever, but she didn’t say he had shotguns. He just busts through and kills those. 4: Police officers. He killed 3 police officers. One wasn’t even on duty. Jamie: Yeah, he could have just went home. 3: I actually knew 2 of the officers. 4: My niece’s husband did too. 3: There’s a lot of that. And here’s the thing a lot of officers don’t want to deal with that because of what you said, the situation in not knowing, I know myself, not knowing what you’re walking into. For instance we got a call, actually the neighbor called us and said “All I heard was screaming and it sounded like somebody fell down the steps.” We go to investigate, we get there and the guy answers the door and is hiding her. She’s in the back and we can hear her screaming and I could see because the 2 of us were there and he was distracting him and I could see her and she was completely covered in blood and everything else. I said to my partner, and luckily I had a partner who was willing, this was the same one that she turned around, and that’s that same situation where we go there and the guy is literally hiding her and going “We’re fine, nothing’s wrong she just fell down the steps.” It was the point where we had to talk our way into there and get her out of that house, we had the neighbor telling us that this is what he heard, but we’re going there not knowing. You know, did someone just fall down the steps, are they fighting? What’s going to happen when we knock on that door? Hence why a lot of officers don’t want to deal with it because if you knock on that door, the cops that answer the call for the domestic and Parental Prevention Education 40 the lady ended up getting killed. Now, the cops got in a lot of trouble for that because they didn’t check on her. Jamie: No they didn’t. 5: That was a mess. 3: I didn’t understand why they didn’t. They started doing that now. They have to see the other party. Jamie: Yes. 3: That should have been implemented a long, long time ago. Group: Yeah 3: My opinion, every time I respond to a domestic violence, I had to see both parties. Period. There was no questions asked, I had to see both of them. 4: Do you guys get paid well? Do they get paid well? 3: When I worked as an officer, no. And most of them don’t. Jamie: And that’s hard work. 3: And I will tell you right now, my full time job at McDonald’s, people that work at McDonald’s get paid more. 4: Oh man. 3: The most I’ve made at my full time job was $13.75 an hour. 4: Man. Jamie: I guess the ones that have been there 20 years or whatever 3: Even so, a lot of them don’t make. And that’s another reason I don’t work with service. Jamie: Ok, we’re going to be closing it down. But that’s ok, domestic violence is something we can keep talking about. I don’t know how ya’ll meet. Do you meet every Thursday? 3: They set stuff up. Jamie: Ok. I’m gonna ask her if I can get Gail in here to do the internet safety. And it goes into Twitter, Instagram, oh that other lady and her daughter, her daughter’s 13 and they’re trying to see if teenagers are, trying to see who can get the most followers. So we got the little, what do you call them? 5: Ghost followers? Jamie: Yeah, ghost followers, I couldn’t think of the word, which is dangerous. Saskia: So any other things that you guys want to learn more about or any other comments about the program? Questions? 5: I have a question. How do you deal with people that have been through sexual abuse who are not so trusted? Like I have a sister in law who was sexually abused but now that she’s had a child, she refuses to allow him to spend the night with us or come over. We’ll ask if her kid wants to come to our house and stuff and she doesn’t allow it. Jamie: So she’s restricting? 5: Yeah. Jamie: Based off of how we were raised, and this is true for anybody, but based off of our experience of being raised in the families that we are raised in, that’s going to dictate a lot about how we are going to be a parent. So just think of if any kind of trauma happened as you were growing up or whatever. Then you being a parent, that’s going to affect how you parent, so that’s what’s happening there. She’s trying to protect him at all costs but she doesn’t realize that because she hasn’t dealt with her own stuff that she is restricting him. So I don’t know if she’s ready for services or ready to be sitting down talking to someone about that. Our services are Parental Prevention Education 41 free. Well they’re based on how, anybody can get services regardless of their ability to pay let’s just say that. So if she didn’t have insurance or anything, she could still come talk to somebody. She might not even realize that she’s doing it, cause it’s just so natural to her that that’s how she’s got to keep him safe. So that the things that happened to her don’t happen to him. We do that. That’s just sad because he’s not going to get to experience a lot and then when he turns 18 he’s gonna want to do everything. Anything else? 1: I have something. Well it’s more like feedback. We were at a child’s event and there was a daycare there and the two women who were in charge, to me they seemed verbally abusive to the children. And it was like a lower income area so it was like you know, so people just talk that way to their kids, but this lady was really over the line. I didn’t approach the lady, but I ended up calling I guess the Child Protective Services and reported her and let them know who she was and told her what daycare it was. Now with something like that, do you actually need to approach that person? Jamie: I think you did what was best for you to do. I mean you did something. Now is that a paid childcare? 1: Yeah, that’s why it was so upsetting like this was supposed to be a legit childcare and like I wish I would have thought to get my cell phone out and you know record it that way but it was, it was awful. I felt so sorry for those kids. Jamie: Oh ok. 1: I was wondering should I have intervened at that moment to stop it? Jamie: Well what would you have said? 1: To that woman? Jamie: Yeah, well role playing is very significant so, yes what could you have said to that woman? 1: Probably, “Look, the way you are talking to those kids is very inappropriate, you know you could really traumatize a child the way you’re talking to them.” Ask them if they have children and say “Would you talk to your child that way?” And you know “the parents who are paying for this program expect you to treat their kids with respect regardless of what they’re doing. Maybe you’re having a bad day, but you need to take a break.” Jamie: Or maybe a question like “Are you ok?” Like sometimes when we start back there, like you got to it at the end, like maybe she’s having a bad day, maybe she’s overwhelmed and sometimes even with our personal lives, they spill over into our work lives sometimes. Just ask “Are you ok? Because how you are talking to them is bothering me, you know, making me feel some kind of way.” You know, she might need support, or might need help. 1: And I’m just thinking, if you’re talking to kids like that, do you always do that? 4: I guess in that case you could also go to the person in charge of the daycare and say something. But I was at the mall, Monroeville mall one day last week 3: And maybe that’s something, not to cut you off, that’s something that they should go over too. About daycare. You know, because, I know myself, I have sworn up and down that my child won’t go to daycare, because I’ve seen what happens. Jamie: What do you mean about daycare? 3: Just the concerns that are there, what to watch out for, make sure that you’re going to a daycare that’s certified, that has the Health Department certification, that has the inspections done. Even then, there’s still that chance, but you know, what to look for in your child when they come back from daycare. And what to do when you see that type of thing. Parental Prevention Education 42 4: I think most likely if you do approach someone, they’re going to MF you. 1: Well yeah that’s what I was thinking. Jamie: Well she probably wouldn’t have done it in front of the kids cause to me it would have stopped right then, even if she was just quiet for a second. Ok, well I’m going to give everyone a giftcard for participating. Saskia: Thank you guys so much. Group: Oh yeah, you’re welcome. Jamie: Here is a form as well for feedback, we appreciate all of your help. Undergraduate Journal of Service Learning and Community-Based Research, Volume 4, Fall 2015 Working In and For the Community: A Reflection of Community-Based Research Saskia Berrios-Thomas University of Pittsburgh As a sophomore at the University of Pittsburgh, I was given the opportunity to conduct independent research under the guidance of a faculty mentor. The Community-Based Research Fellowship is awarded through the University of Pittsburgh Honors College. The fellowship gives students the opportunity to partner with a community organization and a faculty mentor to complete a research project that will provide meaningful benefits to both the community partner and the undergraduate researcher. The goal of the fellowship is to facilitate social change through working with a community organization; I worked with Pittsburgh Action Against Rape. Through the fellowship, I learned about what it means to work with an organization, to do community work, and to do research. Prior to this fellowship, I had only ever volunteered; I had not worked closely on a project with an organization’s staff. I learned what it means to go out into the community and I saw the people that PAAR is helping everyday. The good work the agency is doing is apparent in the effort the staff puts into each program, including Parents in the Know. Without PAAR, programs like this wouldn’t exist. Preventing sexual assault is something I personally care about. I am a survivor of childhood sexual abuse and a past recipient of services at PAAR. PAAR’s legal advocacy and counseling services helped me through an extremely difficult time in my life and I was always impressed with the great work of these programs. However, my hope is to prevent abuse from occurring in young children’s lives so that they never have to experience the pain and hardships of the aftermath of abuse. Seeing PAAR’s prevention team and working on this project has given me great hope in the ability to prevent abuse, and to still provide relief for those we can’t protect. Growing as a researcher has been an excellent experience. Doing independent work with the guidance of seasoned faculty mentors allowed me to truly learn about the research process. I discovered the ups and downs of doing research, the hardships and benefits of working with a community partner, and the struggles and successes of taking on such a big project. I learned to be professional and how to have a successful meeting. I learned how to develop relationships with people before asking them to participate in my research. I learned how to ask for help and when to carry on without it. I learned how to analyze my results and how to think critically when they don’t turn out as expected. I learned how to do what the agency wants and not just what I want. And finally, I learned how to commit to a project and work to make it the best that it can be for both me and the agency. The service-learning orientation of the Community-Based Research Fellowship was unique and especially important to me throughout the process. The fellowship fostered an attitude of always putting the needs of the community first. When selecting a project, it was very important that the topic be something that the community organization supported and was an issue that it wanted solved; it was not acceptable to go to the organization and propose a project that it may not have wanted to do. The fellowship staff urged all of the fellows to meet with the community organization and discuss issues that were important to both parties. This aspect of the fellowship allowed me to see what it means to work with a community partner. The project I chose was something PAAR cared about and an issue in which it wanted to see positive change. Berrios-Thomas 2 Undergraduate Journal of Service Learning and Community-Based Research, Volume 4, Fall 2015 The fellowship also provided a unique opportunity to work with other students in an interdisciplinary context. Fellows came from many different majors and years with projects varying in scope and depth. Although many aspects of our projects were different, we all had a common goal: to work with a community organization to help solve an important issue. We met biweekly to discuss what it means to do service-learning research. We had reading and journaling assignments to ensure we were actively thinking about the challenges we inevitably faced throughout the research process. For me, these discussions and readings were extremely important for my understanding of service learning. I have always been passionate about social change and improving the welfare of others, which is why I decided to become a social worker. However, having never worked alongside a community organization, I did not realize the complex nature of doing community- based research. I believed it was as simple as finding an issue and fixing it with the typical research design. I did not take into account the complex relationships I would experience in not only working with the community partner, but the community member as well. Through my research project last semester, I learned the importance of relationship-building before doing research with people in the community. It was important to get to know the parents I was working with before I started to ask them sensitive questions. I was lucky to be working with a group of parents who already knew each other and had excellent group cohesion. Had this not been the case, I would have needed to have spent even longer building the relationships within the group to ensure everyone was comfortable before I began my research. Furthermore, relationships with my community partner were extremely important. I learned that I was a team member, but I needed to respect PAAR’s mission and the goals the staff had. It was important for me to put my project in the context of the organization’s current state and overall mission and values. I feel very fortunate that my first experience in research was in service-learning research with a community-centered fellowship. As a social work major, any research I do will be centered on the community and the people I am working with. Learning the importance of respecting these people and putting their needs first was an important lesson. Had I simply done an independent study without the service-learning foundation, I may have centered my research around my own needs and wants, instead of the needs and wants of the community I was working with. I learned the importance of taking into account both parties’ interests and using the shared interests as a strength within the research framework and development of the project. Once I talked to PAAR, it was easy to see that we had common goals in mind and I could tailor the research to fit both my needs and PAAR’s. Furthermore, I gained this collaborative experience while also researching my topic independently while under the guidance of a faculty mentor. This guidance allowed me to use evidence-based research methods and to not miss any important steps throughout the process. I would not have understood the research process had I not been working so closely with my faculty mentors, as well as the other fellows and fellowship staff. I hope to continue doing research to help community organizations improve their programs and services. I think research-based initiatives that are evidence-based allow for the best care and treatment for individuals in the community. Service learning is an excellent way to experience this type of research for the first time. Even if students are not going into research that centers on social change or human populations, I think it is still important to understand the value of taking into account the needs of communities and any other group you may work with while researching. Service-learning is important for understanding the goals and needs of others Berrios-Thomas 3 Undergraduate Journal of Service Learning and Community-Based Research, Volume 4, Fall 2015 so you can better understand how you can tailor your research to meet those goals and needs, as well as your own. ~ I would like to thank my faculty mentors Keith Caldwell and Dr. Yodit Betru for their support and guidance. I would also like to thank Julie Evans at PAAR for allowing me to complete this project, Jamie Posey-Woodson for facilitating the parent programs and meeting with me every week to talk about new ideas and progress, Laura Summers for meeting with me every week and always bringing in new perspectives, and Holly Hickling for overseeing everything and running great conversations with all of the Community-Based Research Fellows. Saskia Berrios-Thomas, University of Pittsburgh research Saskia Berrios-Thomas, University of Pittsburgh reflection