the slanderer rebuked, or, the vindication of thomas grantham against the malicious slanders of one mr. toathby, a seller of wool in the city of norwich grantham, thomas, 1634-1692. 1691 approx. 9 kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from 3 1-bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : 2008-09 (eebo-tcp phase 1). a41791 wing g1549 estc r39438 18419200 ocm 18419200 107515 this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons 0 1.0 universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase 1, no. a41791) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set 107515) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, 1641-1700 ; 1634:9) the slanderer rebuked, or, the vindication of thomas grantham against the malicious slanders of one mr. toathby, a seller of wool in the city of norwich grantham, thomas, 1634-1692. 4 p. s.n., [london : 1691] caption title. signed at end: tho. grantham. imprint suggested by wing. reproduction of original in the british library. created by converting tcp files to tei p5 using tcp2tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between 1473 and 1700 available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the 25,363 texts created during phase 1 of the project have been released into the public domain as of 1 january 2015. anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. 5% (or 5 pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of 100 instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level 4 of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p5, characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng baptists -catechisms. baptists -england. persecution -england. 2007-11 tcp assigned for keying and markup 2007-11 apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images 2007-12 pip willcox sampled and proofread 2007-12 pip willcox text and markup reviewed and edited 2008-02 pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion the slanderer rebuked : or , the vindication of thomas grantham against the malicious slanders of one mr. toathby , a seller of wool in the city of norwich . it is now about fourteen years , i think , since two of my neighbours being desired by me to coard or geld a ram for me , one of them , ( robert hareby by name ) having ground joining unto mine , finding a ram ( very much like mine ) in his pasture , caught him , ( verily thinking he was mine ) and brought him to my yard , where my other neighbour ( mr. john lark by name ) did coard him , as i had formerly desired him , and let him go , not doubting but he was mine , and they both knew my sheep as well as my self . * but we were all mistaken , for this ram proved a poor man's , who dwelt near us ; and the ram dying of his gelding , the owner complained , and desired my self and mr. lark to consider his loss , which i willingly did , and gave him half the value of his ram , which was six shillings eight pence : and here was an end of the business without sute or trouble , though some ill men advised the poor man to sue us , and to put us to trouble . but as ill men desire to abuse the innocent , so this accident became a reproach to me ; and from gelding a ram , they turn'd it to stealing a ram. but my neighbours knowing my innocency , did vindicate my reputation , so that the clamor ceased in those parts where i then lived , [ which was at ashby next spilsby in the county of lincoln ] insomuch that none but vile persons would so much as mention it . now since i came to dwell in norwich , there came a seller of wool under the title of mr. toathby , ( whom i could not see , though i went to his inn as soon as i heard of him ) and he was pleased to reproach me by this accident , in the vilest manner that might be , ( as the inn-keeper told me ) and his slander was very pleasing to such as delight in falshood , insomuch as i found it needful to detect this lying slander , by the testimony of such of my neighbours at ashby aforesaid , who are yet living , and who very well know the circumstances of this matter . what i wrote to them , with their answers , i shall here commit to posterity , to detect the wickedness of such as have or hereafter shall attempt to abuse me upon this occasion . to my loving neighbours in ashby next spilsby , greeting , &c. sirs ; i am now settled ( as the place of my residence ) in the city of norwich ; and here came a person out of lincolnshire , a seller of combed wool , and defamed me as a great rogue , and a † tup-stealer . now some of you being yet living to testify how innocent i was in that accident , which happened by the over-sight of robert hareby and mr. john lark ( our neighbours , ) in bringing up to my yard , and coarding a ram for mine , which , unknown to them and my self , was another man's , as you very well know . i do therefore earnestly intreat you , to send me your testimony of the truth concerning this matter , and of my conversation among you , for i am much abused by the false report of this unworthy person . you have heard mr. lark speak of this matter , and his son can testify the same . thus with my kind love to you all , i remain , your loving neighbour , tho. grantham . norwich may 1. 1691. the testimony of my neighbours in ashby aforesaid , may 7 , 1691. these are to satisfy whom it may concern , that whereas our neighbour thomas grantham , late of ashby , in the county of lincoln , and now resident in norwich , hath been defamed by some person for stealing a tup : we do here testify that he is innocent as to what he is charged withal in that case , and that the said thomas grantham did not intentionally nor actually do any unlawful act or deed ; and that in respect of his behaviour amongst us his neighbours , he was always accounted a very honest man , and a good neighbour . witness our hands , george coddington , john robison , thomas atkin , anthony robison . may 7 , 1691. we are here informed that thomas grantham , late of ashby , and now at norwich , is taxed in his life and conversation , and particularly about a tup . these are to satisfy that the said thomas grantham always behaved himself well , and led a very good life and conversation amongst us , and was always esteemed a very honest man. witness ben. smith , edward reed . to the right worshipful the mayor and aldermen of the city of norwich ; the humble petition of thomas grantham , inhabitant in the said city . doth shew ; that whereas many abuses , reproaches , and affronts , have been and are daily offered to my person , name and reputation , insomuch that i cannot pass peaceably in the streets , nor be peaceable in my habitation , nor injoy my self quietly in my service to almighty god , according to the law of the land , by reason of the rudeness of many of the inhabitants of this place , unknown to me by name ; save that from one mr. harman's house in st. martins , at the unicorn , a report is spred abroad , that i did steal a ram in the place where i formerly lived : which forgery i have detected , by the testimony of divers of my neighbours , who have sent certificates of my innocency under their hands concerning that matter , ( copies whereof i have herewith sent to your worships . ) and seeing the rudeness of the people , and their insolency to be so great in promoting that and other slanders , that i go in danger of my life , i thought it my duty to spread my complaint before your worships , and to beseech you to do for me what you lawfully may for my preservation from violence . and your humble petitioner shall pray , &c. norwich may 28 , 1691. this petition was received by the mayor of norwich , who was pleased to say , they were satisfied the report was false , and that he would do me justice . and seeing that satan so violently rages against me , meerly because i endeavour to serve god and this generation in my ministry , with all possible fidelity , i doubt not but after my decease he will by such base ways do what he can to deface my poor ( though sincere ) labours . i do therefore here , in the fear of god , challenge all the world , whilst i am yet alive , to bring a just accusation against me , if they can , in respect of my conversation , from my youth to this day : for though i am a man of infirmities ( as all are ) yet by the grace of god , i have been kept from all these things whereof i have by the tongue of infamy been so unworthily accused . tho. grantham . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a41791-e10 * this account is testified under the hands of john hareby ( brother to the said robert hareby ) mr. roger lark , ( son to the said mr. john lark ) tho. atkin , and william bradshaw , anno 1680. who all are yet living ( except john hareby ) . † in lincolnshire they call a ram a tup . note that these gentlemen who have given these testimonies , are all of the church of england , except one ; and they offer the testimony of many more if it be desired . the forerunner to a further answer (if need be) to two books lately published against tho. grantham of norwich wherein the spirit and temper of the calvinists is discovered, particularly mr. calvin, mr. finch, and his little præcursor : to which is prefixed, the solid testimony of mr. george wither, against calvinism, the worst of doctrines / by tho. grantham ... grantham, thomas, 1634-1692. 1691 approx. 32 kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from 4 1-bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : 2005-12 (eebo-tcp phase 1). a41777 wing g1532 estc r39423 18409415 ocm 18409415 107500 this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons 0 1.0 universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase 1, no. a41777) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set 107500) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, 1641-1700 ; 1634:3) the forerunner to a further answer (if need be) to two books lately published against tho. grantham of norwich wherein the spirit and temper of the calvinists is discovered, particularly mr. calvin, mr. finch, and his little præcursor : to which is prefixed, the solid testimony of mr. george wither, against calvinism, the worst of doctrines / by tho. grantham ... grantham, thomas, 1634-1692. wither, george, 1588-1667. 7 p. s.n., [london? : 1691] caption title. place and date of publication suggested by wing. imperfect : stained and slightly faded. reproduction of original in the british library. created by converting tcp files to tei p5 using tcp2tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between 1473 and 1700 available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the 25,363 texts created during phase 1 of the project have been released into the public domain as of 1 january 2015. anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. 5% (or 5 pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of 100 instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level 4 of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p5, characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng finch, martin, 1628?-1698. -answer to mr. thomas grantham's book, called, a dialogue between the baptist and the presbyterian. calvinism -controversial literature. baptists -apologetic works. 2005-06 tcp assigned for keying and markup 2005-06 apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images 2005-07 mona logarbo sampled and proofread 2005-07 mona logarbo text and markup reviewed and edited 2005-10 pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion the forerunner to a further answer ( if need be ) to two books lately published against tho. grantham of norwich : wherein the spirit and temper of the calvinists is discovered ; particularly mr. calvin , mr. finch , and his little praecursor . to which is prefixed , the solid testimony of mr. george wither against calvinism , the worst of doctrines . by tho. grantham , preacher of glad tidings to all men in the city of norwich . mr. george wither , a man of great judgment in many things , and a faithful monitor of the english nation for many years ; did , in the year 1666 , publish his parallellogrammaton ; wherein he does much perswade to repentance and brotherly-love . and observing some great impediments to both , in p. 61 , &c. he considers the doctrine of the calvinists , in denying universal redemption , to be a very great obstruction thereunto . and thus he declares himself . i will be bold to aver — that the brotherly love and true repentance , whereto i would perswade , will never be effectually attain'd unto by them , which knowingly , premeditately , and wilfully persevere in denying the universal redemption of mankind by jesus christ ; seeing thereon depends god's most glorious attribute ; and in regard it is that for which we are much more obliged to him than all the rest of his creatures , he cannot but be highly displeased with all those who confine the extent of that mercy . i know many in these times ( some of them in other respects very good and learned men ) who think universal redemption to be a new doctrine , terming it arminianism and popery : but it is neither new , nor repugnant ( as is pretended ) to the orthodox doctrine of election and reprobation , and the free grace of god ; nor ascribes ought more to nature by the consequences thereof , than tends to our justifying of god , and to our self-condemnation , if that which he hath given us be not husbanded according as he hath and doth enable . the holy scriptures evidence it to all who rightly understand them . so far is it from being a novelty , ( as ignorant hearers are made to believe ) that it was received and professed for a necessary truth by the churches of god in all ages since christ's birth , and contradicted by very few in the first times of christianity : yea , it was believed many hundreds of years before arminius was born , or popery had any being in the world ; and will be professed , when the opposers and traducers of that verity shall be quite rooted out of the evangelical kingdom — it is the well-counterfeiting of truth and holiness which must compleat the designs of antichrist ; and there is not any one single heresy or wickedness , which doth so secretly , and so mischievously supplant christ ; it undermines the foundation of that structure which open blasphemies above-ground cannot endanger , and hath already sprung a mine to the dividing of lutherans and calvinists , that they will hardly be reconciled until all controversies are at an end . let us therefore consider well what depends upon it ; how much it concerns the glory of god ; how much he is dishonoured by a contrary belief , and how much it detracts from our own privileges and consolations . god's mercy is above all his works . it is the crown and dignity of the king of kings , and the highest of all treasons to clip it . a professed denial of the universality of humane redemption , seems to me a cursed counter-callol , made and sung by devils , in opposition to that blessed nativity-song which was sung by angels at the birth of christ , glory to god on high , on earth peace , and good will to men. for how was god likely to be glorified , peace to be upon earth , and good will to men , manifested by the incarnation of his son , if man's redemption had not been universal ? but so narrowed , that it extended to a very few , and those few also left without assurance they were of that small number , whatsoever they should endeavour , if there should be an exception from the act of grace , as many fancy ? doubtless if it had been so , it would have given occasion rather of howling than of singing , and been rather sad than glad tidings , in regard of that great terror which might have seized upon all mankind , and caused an universal lamentation , when they considered how many millions of millions were certainly exposed to everlasting damnation ; how small a number in possibility to be saved , and how few of their dearly beloved parents , children , and friends might be of these few , for whom christ took upon him humane nature . o horrible and unparallel'd blasphemy ! but , blessed be god's name , it is not so . when the children of israel were redeemed out of their egyptian bondage , which was a type of our ●●●versal redemption , there was not one soul , no not a hoof left behind them ; nor was one soul absolutely excluded from the benefit of christ's incarnation and passion , but they only who by their own defaults , and unrepented sin , should fall away , as they did who perished in the wilderness . for god hath many a time , upon several occasions , pa●sed his word to ascertain the universality of his love to man without personal respects , where personal sins without repentance , have not first made the person uncapable . nay ▪ our incredulity hath put him to his oath to assure every sinner . and if nevertheless we still distrust him , continue in our misbelief of his word and oath , and labour to draw others into the same crime ; it cannot be an ordinary punishment which god will at last inflict for so extraordinary and so high an affront ; it being a sin more hainous than murder , adultery , and all other meer carnal sins put together ; yea , more hainous than those the jews committed by their idolatries , killing the prophets , and crucifying christ in the flesh ; for the last was but a sin against his humanity , and their idolatries but the ascribing some part of that honour to the creatures , which was due to god only : whereas the limiting god's universal grace in christ with the concomitant doctrines , and the consequences thence raised , and the imputing to god an eternal reprobation of the greatest part of mankind , before they had done good or evil ; for those sins also which they blasphemously say he necessitated them to commit , to shew his justice , and manifest his hatred to sin , is a despoiling god of his divine nature , of his goodness , and an ascribing unto him that which belongs only to the devil . o the patience of god! what can be so abominable ? they do not only make reprobation older than the father of it the devil , but make god also the author of his wickedness , in necessitating him to be a devil , and consequently author of all the wickedness committed by all the devils in hell , and all the wicked men upon the earth : which appears to me so horrible an impiety , that i wonder not to see the world so full of plagues and sins , and sins and sinners become such plagues to each other as they are . nor can i believe there will ever be less plagues , where that blasphemy is professed and indulged as orthodox doctrine , until it be repented of . nor shall i marvel if my words be misunderstood , and my good meaning misinterpreted ; if god's word be so mistaken , and his love so ill-rewarded . i know the bitterness and uncharitableness of their spirits , who shall be obstinate in this judgment , yet am neither afraid nor ashamed to declare my conscience therein ; or in whatsoever else i think may concern god's glory , and the peace of my country . thus far mr. geo. wither . th● forerunner to a further answer ( if occasion serve ) to two books lately published against tho. grantham of norwich . briefly shewing the spirit and temper of the calvinists , and particularly of mr. finch and his praecursor , &c. wickedness proceedeth and cometh forth from the wicked , as saith the proverb of the ancients , 1 sam. 24. 13. in psal . 94. 20 ▪ this question is put , shall the throne of iniquity have fellowship with thee , which frameth mischief by a law ? the sense of the place is , no such thing can please god , &c. now of all mischief , sin is the worst , and indeed the cause of all the rest . it must therefore be exceeding evil , for any to make the holy god the ordainer and commander of all the sins of angels and men , and that freely , without any provocation , and infallibly and unchangeably also , that they must even so come to pass as he hath ( not only ) foreseen them , but ordained and commanded them . this is the doctrine which i chiefly opposed in my dialogue . and though i have made this very manifestly appear to be the doctrine of the principal men of the presbyterian and calvinistical perswasion , yet i will here add one passage more out of mr. calvin , inst . l. 3. c. 24. sect. 6. where he boldly tells us , that god doth none otherwise foresee the things that shall come to pass , than because he hath ordained they shall so come to pass . it is vain to move controversy about foreknowledge , where it is certain rather by ordinance and commandment . so then , let the action be never so wicked , he makes it infallibly necessary , by virtue of god's ordinance and commandment . than which i do aver ▪ nothing can be spoken more dishonourable to god , nor more mischievous to men. yea , zanchius is as bold as calvin , for he saith , damus reprobos necessitate p●●candi , eoque & pereundi , ex hac dei ordinatione constringi , atque ita constringi ut nequeant non peccare atque periere : that is , we grant that reprobates are held so fast under god's almighty decree , that they cannot but sin and perish . these i call the worst doctrines in the world. and finding this worst of doctrines to have much prevailed in the city of norwich , i have endeavoured to make the citizens sensible of the danger of it , both by preaching and writing . for which work and labour of love ( and to their souls especially who are most deceived by it ) i have been ill requited by many slanders and reproaches ; and particularly by a very foolish pamphlet , as a forerunner to that book of mr. finch , which he calls , an answer to my dialogue , [ which scurrilous pamphlet was published with his privity and allowance , as i suppose ] in both which , one great design is , to disgrace my person by unseemly epithets , and very false stories ; and particularly for that which i writ against calvin for his rage and cruelty , in procuring one michael servetus to be burnt to death at geneva , anno 1553. concerning which the pamphleteer calls calvin , a renowned man a star of the first magnitude ; and servetus , an infamous wretch ; and my self , a paultry groveling fellow . and mr. finch calls me , a boisterous quarrelsom man , one that hath the spirit of slumber , as a check and punishment to defame such a man as calvin ; and to extol servetus , an antitrinitarian ; and says , i have lost all credit and esteem with all wise and knowing christians . but yet i hope all wise and knowing christians will hear me speak for what is truth , and so for my self also before they condemn me . and , 1. wherein do i defame calvin ? that he did certainly procure the death of servetus , a very learned man , and of that exact life , that nothing is objected against him , though i doubt he did err in some things ; i sa 〈…〉 at calvin did procure his death ▪ is p 〈…〉 he saith , i freely confess the accuser came out from me , i hope at the least he shall be put to death * . i have not then defamed calvin , unless mr. finch and his little lawyer can justify that cruel action ; as indeed they seem willing so to do , by approving dr. owen his sentence , who tells us , as mr. finch quotes him , p. 115. that servetus is the only person in the world that he ever heard of , that ever died upon the account of religion , in reference to whom the zeal of them that put him to death may be acquitted . and thus mr. finch , dr. owen , &c. have bathed their hands in the blood of poor michael servetus . behold , and wonder ! and wonder the more , because neither of them ever saw the book which servetus died for , but take their grounds from the pens of his murderers , who would not speak the best of him you may be sure . but , 2. wherein do i extol servetus ? i said he was a learned and worthy man , and pious , tho mistaken in some things perhaps . and do i not call him pious in conjunction with calvin ? now i conceive that in charity , i may hope many were pious men , who did not rightly understand the mystery of the trinity . yea , i have the charity to think , that calvin was a pious man , and yet i believe and know that he was very erroneous in many things , and that he was acted by cain's spirit , when he procured the death of servetus , who could not deny either the father , son , nor holy spirit , because he held true baptism in the name of all the three ; though i fear his sentiments were not so clear as they ought to have been concerning the unity of these three . and who can say that he so fully knows this great and glorious mystery as he ought to do ? i am far from justifying servetus in his error , yet i think they ought to have spared his life , though they had laid some restraint upon him . 3. let us hear what learned protestants have said before me , in the case of servetus . 1. grotius , a man that had but few equals for wisdom and moderation , tells us ; servetus libri non genevae tantum , sed in aliis locis , per calvini diligentiam exusti sunt ; fateor tamen unum me exemplum vidisse libri servetiani , in quo certe ea non reperi quae ei objicit calvinus , vot . pro p●ce , p. 16. that is , by the diligence of calvin , all the books of servetus were not only burnt at geneva , but in other places . yet i have seen one copy of servetus ' s books , in which truly i do not find the things which calvin does object against him . and saith dr. pierce , ( a learned and able minister of the church of england ) servetus was burnt at geneva for less than being a socinian , and who was not so bad as mr. b. ( a presbyterian ) hath laboured to fancy me . and he tells us also , that oecolampadius ( a learned protestant ) was offended at the barbarity of the sentence . nor find i any thing ( saith he ) pretended against servetus , which was so highly blasphemous , as to make god the author or cause of sin. and how well calvin could tell his own tale , and how diligent he was in being the first informer of his affairs , we may guess by his epistles , 164 , 165 , which he writ to the four helvetian cities for gaining authority to his new device — for , let them say what they please to lessen the guilt of that cruelty , yet they are parties , and must not so easily be heeded as other men who are none . if servetus his books were so blasphemous , why was calvin so diligent in burning up the impression which he should rather have preserved , that posterity might see some competent cause for such a terrible execution ? yet , by the providence of god , one or two of the copies escap'd the flames ; and we are assured , by peerless grotius , that in the copy which he saw , he could not find those things which were objected by mr. calvin ; what melancton wrote , it was meerly on supposition that calvin's narrative was true . thus far the learned pierce , in dislike calvin ' s cruelty against servetus . and by this we may perceive , how little credit there is to be given to dr. owen and mr. finch , or his little praecursor , not one of them having seen the book which they condemn , but receive their information from them that were his murderers . and grant that servetus did err in that great mystery of the trinity , yet must he for this be burnt to death ? why then , dr. owen , mr. finch , and his little lawyer , would make bloody work , even in england , where there are too many who are as erroneous concerning that glorious mystery , as servetus was , ( the more is the pity ) ; for seeing they justify calvin in that bloody act , how can they refuse doing the like , were it in their power , unless they will come short of that zeal which they commend in mr. calvin ? by this print of the foot , we may know the stature of that monster of persecution , which did not the law restrain , would appear in too many professors at this day . i speak what i know by the usage i have met with in this city , both from professors and prophane . 4. now let us hear how famous mr. calvin was in the judgment of some learned and sober protestants . ( 1. ) he is thought to err in the mystery of the trinity as well as servetus , though perhaps not so much . these are his words , ( speaking of the three persons , &c. ) if the names have not without cause been invented , we ought to take heed , that in rejecting them , we be not justly blamed of proud presumptuousness . i would to god ( says he ) they were buried indeed , so that this faith were agreed of all men , that the father , son , and holy spirit , are one god ; and yet the father is not the son , nor the holy ghost the son , but distinct by certain properties . institut . l. 1. c. 13. sect. 3. and this his tres proprietates , is objected against him by some of the learned protestants . and i am of opinion , should i write of the blessed trinity as mr. calvin has done , mr. finch and his forerunner would cry out blasphemy . ( 2. ) he condemns the ancient fathers , because they were not of his mind in the case of irrespective reprobation , but hold , that there was salvation for all men through god's mercy in the gift of his son. he brands them ( saith a learned protestant ) as pelagianising in their opinions . but ( 3. ) his rudeness of speech was intolerable : he called great and good men by titles unseemly ; as serpent , pest , lossel , fool , knave , devil , filthy dog , impudent hangman , &c. and bucer ( a learned protestant ) calls him , fratricide , a murderer of his brethren . and grotius says , he grew worse and worse ; and that calvin ' s disciples are such themselves in disposition , as they make god to be in their imaginations towards the greater part of mankind . and truly this is too apparent in two of his followers , i mean , the little praecursor and mr. finch , whose study has been to render me very odious , though i am sure they know no evil by me , more ( no nor so much ) as they know by themselves . and yet thus i am represented by them , viz. audacious , impudent , turbulent , impetuous , impertinent , scurrilous , prejudic'd mechanick ; a fool , despicable , wise mr. grantham , a despised man , coxcomb , addle-brain , dull kitching-pate , clown , blunderbuss , dissembling prater , brawler , bellowing , hideous , bleat , thick-skull momus , one decreed to steal , wrangling fellow , dolt , poor fop , soft-pated clod , caviller , brazen-●orehead , inconsiderate fellow , gagling goose , a quarrelsome boisterous man , one that has lost all credit and esteem with all wise and knowing christians that worship the holy trinity ; one , like a woman scolding and quarrelling in the streets , one like an impertinent woman , &c. so that i think these two calvinists have come near the pitch of their master . and such as will not spare mens reputation , are not to be trusted with their lives , any more than mr. calvin . 5. there is one thing which runs through mr. f's epistle and book , and that is a talk of special discriminating grace . as if god's grace , which he gives to most men , were of little use for them that have it ; yea , of no use at all , in respect of eternal life . all that mr. f. allows that grace to effect for them in the other world , is only to make their punishment less in hell , as you may see in p. 15. of his answer ; which is a piece of as woful divinity as ever was heard surely . reader , i humbly advise thee to take heed how thou receivest these dictates , and esteem all ( even the least measure of grace from god ) to be a special favour , and such as in its nature and effect ( if it be all that ●e design'd for thee , be it never so little ) will certainly lead thee to heaven , thou being a faithful improver of it , sincerely , though under many infirmities ; and this through his own goodness , in christ jesus our lord , who gave himself a ransom for all to be testified in due time , 1 tim. 2. 6. ( 2. ) again observe , that these terms , discriminating grace , &c. are not found in the scripture ; nor wisely made use of to render some of god's grace not to be discriminating , ( as they please to phrase it ) . we know god gives more talents to some than he does to others , yet grace is the same in nature and efficacy , if improved , and to leave the receiver under unpardonable guilt if not improved , mat. 25. and we shall only be accountable for what god gives to each one , and for no more ; nor will he deal in severity , but where his grace hath been contemned . ( 3. ) consider that very many of those who most talk of discriminating grace , are greatly destitute of that tender love which paul had for them that rejected christ , rom. 9. 1 , 2 , 3. & 10. 1 , 2 , 3. but are filled with hatred against all that oppose their conceit of irrespective reprobation ; being indeed fierce and of a cruel disposition , full of passion , quickly angry , &c. these things i have found to be true ( god knows it ) among such as pretend very high to discriminating grace more than amongst others : but i fear it will prove but a special discriminating conceit in the end to very many of them . 6. there is a great talk also , both in his epistle and book , about god's absolute soveraignty . as if because he is so , he might make angels and men on purpose to damn them to everlasting fire , without giving them ( at any time ) any means sufficient to prevent their destruction . to avoid this rock upon which they often split themselves , let us consider , that though god's soveraignty is incomprehensible , yet it is every way better both in its mercy and justice , and in the exercise of both , than any soveraignty that men do receive or exercise under him . now we know , that what prince soever exerts his soveraign power , to impose absolute impossibilities upon his subjects , and death for non-performance , is a very cruel and unrighteous prince in the exercise of that soveraignty . such was pharaoh , exod. 5. condemned by god and man. o how ill would it become a prince to cut off the feet of many of his subjects , and then gibbet them alive , because they do not run as well as those whose feet he spared ? and yet even thus do these calvinists represent the most merciful soveraign that ever was : for they hold and teach , that god did freely and unchangeably decree , precisely such a number of angels and men , women and infants , to be damned , and that unspeakable time , before there was either angel or man created ; and this , not because god foresaw they would sin , and despise the riches of his goodness ; but he also ordained them that they should commit so many sins , yea , all the sins that they ever shall or can commit , that so he might glorify the soveraignty of his justice ( as they speak ) in such a voluntary and dismal destruction of his creatures . 7. these things i made evident from the learned calvinists own pens , as alledged against them by their fellow protestants ; and mr. finch is so far from answering them , that he plainly tells you , he will not meddle with any of my quotations , and yet he calls his book an answer to mine . he says also , he will not justify all the phrases of learned and godly men ; and thus he will hold to their opinion , but not to their phrases . hence he likes not dr. collings's using the phrase , as if god did not seriously act , &c. when indeed he makes the case far worse : for tho peter told the jews , god sent christ to them to bless them , in turning every one of them from their iniquities , mr. f. tells you , it was far from peter ' s meaning , p. 21. and when our saviour bewails israel , for not knowing the things that belonged to their peace ; mr. f. tells us , christ did not weep for their spiritual peace , but to prevent their ruin by the romans ; as if christ did more tender their bodies than their souls : it seems he had ordained the devil should lead them to hell , but for this christ would not weep as a mediator , but he wept as man only for that they should be destroyed by the romans ; and yet , if you sound him to the bottom , it was infallibly and unchangeably decreed by christ as god , that they should be destroyed by the romans , for he holds that god did unchangeably decree whatsoever comes to pass . o unwise expositor ! and thus does he abuse most of the texts which he meddles with , which speak of god's love to mankind universally , as every careful reader may perceive : and very unworthily declares , that god hath many holy ends in affording the preaching of the word to many , upon whom he never purposed nor intended to bestow special and saving grace , p. 15. and what is this , but to tell the world , that god meerly mocks the greatest part of men to whom the gospel is preached ? for whatever he speaks by the gospel to them , he never intended them any salvation by it . and thus mr. finch , and all such preachers as he is , are meer hypocrites , for they cannot intend any salvation to all they preach unto , but only to a very few ▪ and they know not so much as one of them . nay , so greedily does he fancy that god will absolutely damn the greatest part of mankind ; that he will not spare the poor dying infants , but cast them into hell also ; and his reason is , that as men do kill the young cubs of foxes and wolves , though they never yet did any mischief , so god may , if he please , glorify his justice upon infants , though they die in their infancy ▪ p. 88 , 89. and thus our gracious god is made more cruel to his off-spring , ( for such is all mankind , acts 17. 28. ) than the very wolves and foxes are to their young ones . an● what is now become of that gracious speech of almighty god , psal . 145. his tender mercies are over all his works ? sure , damned infants have no share at all in his mercy , no not so much as a toad by a thoasand degrees . o ye fools , when will ye be wise ? psal . 94. 8. mr. finch quarrels with the title of my book , and says , we read of john the baptist , not of thomas the baptist . but this only shews his weakness ; i speak not of thomas the baptist . i intend by the baptist , all that own the doctrine and baptism of repentance for remission of sins , including john the baptist as the first teacher of that baptism , for the manifestation of christ to israel , and that all men through him might believe , john 1. 7 , 31. this doctrine mr. finch and the presbyterians do oppose , both in the extent of this blessed object of faith for all men , by narrowing it up to they know not who , and therefore preach they know not what . and also by sprinkling poor infants ( many times fast asleep ) in opposition to john the baptist , who baptized repentant believers in the river , or where there was much water , mark 1. 17. john 3. 23. mr. finch also quarrels my office as a messenger of the baptized churches , &c. but of this i have given an account , in my book intituled , christianismus primitivus , to which i refer the inquisitive reader , and remain , norwich , aug. 14. 1691. a friend and servant to all men , for jesus's sake , tho. grantham . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a41777-e10 the calvinists make god to establish all the mischievous actions of men and devils by an unalterable decree , so as that they must be done of necessity . o horrible ! * libenter fateor ( inquit calvinus de se ) ac prae me fero prodisse accusatorē , spero capitale saltem feret judicium . calv. ep. ad farret . a friendly epistle to the bishops and ministers of the church of england for plain truth and sound peace between the pious protestants of the church of england and those of the baptised believers written with the advice of divers pastors and brethren of the baptised congregations, by tho. grantham. grantham, thomas, 1634-1692. 1680 approx. 49 kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from 21 1-bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : 2009-03 (eebo-tcp phase 1). a41779 wing g1534 estc r10561 13113876 ocm 13113876 97719 this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons 0 1.0 universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase 1, no. a41779) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set 97719) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, 1641-1700 ; 419:4) a friendly epistle to the bishops and ministers of the church of england for plain truth and sound peace between the pious protestants of the church of england and those of the baptised believers written with the advice of divers pastors and brethren of the baptised congregations, by tho. grantham. grantham, thomas, 1634-1692. 40 p. [s.n.], london : 1680. reproduction of original in bodleian library. created by converting tcp files to tei p5 using tcp2tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between 1473 and 1700 available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the 25,363 texts created during phase 1 of the project have been released into the public domain as of 1 january 2015. anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. 5% (or 5 pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of 100 instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level 4 of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p5, characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng church of england -relations -baptists. concord -religious aspects -early works to 1800. baptists -relations -church of england. baptists -doctrines. 2007-11 tcp assigned for keying and markup 2007-11 apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images 2008-02 elspeth healey sampled and proofread 2008-02 elspeth healey text and markup reviewed and edited 2008-09 pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a friendly epistle to the bishops and ministers of the church of england for plain truth and sound peace between the pious protestants of the church of england , and those of the baptised believers . written with the advice of divers pastors and brethren of the baptised congregations , by tho. grantham . follow peace with all men , and holiness , without which no man shall see the lord. heb. 12. 14. london , printed in the year , 1680. the preface to the reader . the complaint is both great and just , that christians are so divided amongst themselves , that it 's hard for an impartial christian to find where to fix for his own comfortable society . and this calamity is much aggravated by the backwardness of each party to offer any thing to accommodate these differences , each expecting rather that their opposites should wholly conform to their sentiments , and relinquish their own . and what may be thought ( in that case ) of this present overture we cannot certainly divine , nor will be too confident that there is nothing of that nature in it . but of this we will be confident , that the things here desired , do carry much of their reasonableness in the very nature of them , and have their approbation both from the sacred word , and the works of those to whom they now address themselves for a christian compliance . but it will be said , what are the men that make this overture ? our answer is , we are the servants of the living god ; or , we are christians ; and having seen the discords and ruines which have befallen the christian nations , do heartily desire those breaches may be made up . and as it is not , so 't is hoped it will not be deemed , any transgression of the law of god or man for any christians to seek for peace one with another in the * truth , notwithstanding their differing circumstances in respect of worldly honours , or the disparity of their education ; seeing they ought all to be cloathed with humility ; the strong to bear the infirmity of the weak , and not to please themselves . the brother of high degree to rejoyce in that he is made low , and the chief to become servant to the rest . when paul heard of the divisions which happened in the church at corinth , how does he blame them for their carnality as the cause , and bestir himself to recover their unity , in the truth which at first they had received ? 1 cor. 1. 10. now i beseech you brethren by the name of our lord jesus christ , that ye all speak the same thing , and that there be no divisions among you , but that ye be perfectly joyned together , in the same mind , and in the same judgment . referring them to the foundation , and rule of all christian unity , that only christ was crucified for them ; that christ is not to be divided ; and that they were baptized in the name of christ , and that therefore they should not follow any man , but as he follows christ . but it seems this great apostle did not live to see an end of their divisions , as appears not only from the close of his last epistle to them , 2 cor. 12. 20 , 21. but also from the epistle of clement ( who survived him ) which he wrote upon the occasion of that ungodly sedition ( so he calls it ) which had kindled among them through pride and self-love , which he vehemently laboured to extinguish by many arguments , but specially by reducing them to the blessed example of christ their leader , and the practise of such as lived after a godly sort . his words are these : christ jesus our lord the scepter of the majesty of god , came not in vain boasting of arrogance and pride , although he could do all things , but in humility of mind , according as the holy spirit had spoken concerning him . — see , beloved friends , what an example is given unto us : for if the lord was so humble , what shall we do , who are come under the yoke of his grace ? — let us stick to these therefore who live godly and peaceably , and not to them who hypocritically only seem to desire peace : for somewhere he saith , they blessed with their mouth , but with their heart they cursed ; — for their heart was not right with him , neither were they stedfast in his covenant . now if the points in controversie among the christians at corinth , were of as great moment as ours ( as that may be made evident * ) ; then 't is as rational for us to seek for concord each with other , as it was for paul and clement to seek to unite them . and hence we are the more desirous to make this present overture for christian amity with the pious protestants in the church of england , for divers causes : and first ; as it is very evident there hath bin a great departure from the simplicity of the gospel ( both in the form and power of it ) since the plantation of it in the world by christ and his apostles ; so also it is certain that many good men in ages past , as well as in this present age , have still bin labouring ( and that often-times under great tryals ) for the restoration of the truth to its purity , some in one point , and some in another more especially . and here the english protestant hath bin as active as others , some in reforming divers things in doctrine and practice ; others in keeping the ground they have gained , against the opposers of reformation . now this work ( as it is of god , ) ought to be carried on in the nations of the world to its perfection . namely , till the truths of the gospel be delivered from all humane innovations which have incumbred it , to the disturbance of the peace of christians in all ages since they found opportunity to croud themselves into the service of god. but the great obstruction of this work of reformation , has bin the falling out of the reformers among themselves . and this is the case of the sober protestant , and the baptised believer , in this age and nation : the latter not so honouring the first as he ought , with respect to what god hath done by him ; and the former despising the latter , by whom god is pleased ( notwithstanding ) to bring to light some antient truths which the former overslip'd , or took not due notice of ▪ and by this impatience and disrespect in each towards other , they prove inimical to the very work , which in the main they both design to promote . it is the way of ingenuous men in reviving decayed arts , to honour their predecessors , though inferior to themselves , and to encourage those that succeed to attempt things more excellent . why are not christians as ingenuous in their endeavours to restore decayed religion ? there is nothing in the authour of our profession , or the profession it felf , but candor and ingenuity . wherefore if we intend the furtherance of the work of reformation , hitherto carried on through manifold afflictions , let us timely consider our common interest , which is to make one shoulder to defend what our ancestors have worthily atcheived ; as also to joyn our industry for the restoration of every truth which they omitted . 2. our second motive shall respect the 39 articles of the church of england , in which if a few things ( which are not of the substance of the christian religion ) were explained or amended , it were a very easie thing for the church of england , and the baptised believers in this nation , to compose their differences in point of doctrine and faith , as touching the basis , or foundation of the christian religion . and to the intent that unity may be herein attained between us , we shall humbly beg leave with plainness to shew ( when we offer our proposals ) the particulars whereof we are doubtful in some of the said articles . our third motive to seek for concord with the pious protestant , is the contents of that remarkable * letter , long since sent to mr. j. tombes b. d. ( upon occasion of his learned disputations concerning the restauration of holy baptism to its primitive use ) and written by that reverend man dr. barlow , now lord bishop of lincoln , which verbatim is as followeth : — i am a friend to your person ( whom i have known ( though unknown to you ) this 31 years ) and to your opinion too ( as to the main of it ) ; for i believe and know , that there is neither precept nor practice in scripture for paedobaptism , nor any just evidence for it , for about two hundred years after christ . the first who bears witness to infant baptism practised in the church , is tertullian , but so , as he expresly dislikes and condemns it as an unwarrantable and irrational custome . and nazianzen a good while after him ( in his oration 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , dislikes it too , and would not have infants brought to baptism till they were of some age , and able to answer for themselves . sure i am that in the primitive times they were first to be catechumeni , and then 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , illuminati , or baptizati , and this not only children of pagans , or pagans converted , but children of christian parents , nazianzen ( though a bishop's son ) being not baptized till he was about 30 years of age , as appears in his life ; and the like is evident of some others . the truth is , infant baptism did ( how or by whom i know not ) come in , in the second century , and in the 3d and 4th began to be practised , though not generally , and defended as lawful from that text ( grosly misunderstood ) joh. 3. 5. vpon the like gross mistake of joh. 6. 53. they did for many centuries ( both in the greek and latin church ) communicate infants , and give them the lord's supper , and i confess they might do both as well as either : but altho they baptized some infants , and thought it lawful so to do , yet austin was the first that ever said it was necessary inde durus pater infantum . i have seen what my learned and worthy friend dr. hammond , mr. baxter and others say in defence of it , and i confess i wonder not a little that men of such great parts should say so much to so little purpose , for i have not yet seen any thing like an argument for it . and not only this letter , but many other testimonies which are found in the writings of learned protestants * to the same purpose ( as hath bin shewn by diverse hands in our books now extant ) do greatly perswade us to hope , that the controversies about baptism draws towards an end , and were this point well agreed , many other things would be therewith so moderated , as that we should ( by gods help ) approach that blessing , to have one heart and one way . 4. our fourth motive is taken from that great dread which seems to be at present upon this land , of the encroachment of popery : but what is in this god knoweth , nor shall we concern our selves with secrets . and seeing it is rational to believe , that nothing shall sooner bring such fears and heavy judgments upon us , than our own dissentions and divisions ( in which there is too much dissenting from the truth ) therefore do we the more earnestly desire to dispose our minds to unite in truth and charity , with all such as love god and their neighbour , and walk according to the general rules of christianity : resolving to bear what ( with a good conscience ) may be born for peacesake in the truth , in which we shall ( upon a friendly and free debate ) be agreed . our last and principal motive , is , that hereby god shall be glorified , in the furtherance of a faithful and impartial reformation of life and religion , when we who have had so great a share in contending one against another , shall after a christian and manly sort , cease our conflicts each with other , by stooping to what of sincere truth hath appeared in our disputes : and not leave our divisions hereditary to our posterity , but rather a pious example of our charity to be by them pursued . for seeing it is a rational presumption , that there hath bin said what well can be said , on both sides ; what then remains but that we bend our minds to cease our strife by such a christian compliance , as may justly render us willing to be overcome by truth on both parts , where the matter shall require it . and herein let none so much consult his own glory as the good of christians in general ; as it is written , let no man seek his own , but every man anothers wealth . and again , let every one of us please his neighbour for his good to edification . and let that christian speech of clement come to mind and conclude this preface : is there any one then ( saith he ) that is bravely spirited among you ? is there any one that hath compassion ? doth any one abound with charity ? let him say , if this contention ( sedition or schism ) be for me , or by my means , i will depart , i will go my ways whithersoever you please ; i will do what the rest commands . only let the sheepfold of christ enjoy peace with * the elders which god hath placed over it . he that shall do this , shall purchase to himself great glory in the lord , and every place shall receive him . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 prayer to god for his blessing upon this present endeavour for concord amongst dissenting christians . o most mighty , most holy , and most gracious god! what are we that we should speak unto thee , the god of heaven and earth ? we beseech thee pardon our unworthiness , and for the sake of christ our saviour , hear this prayer , which in his name we do with our whole heart pour out before thy majesty . o lord , in thy fatherly compassion behold the sad divisions which have befallen the christian people throughout the whole world. and seeing nothing is too hard for thee , graciously be pleased to move upon the hearts of all sober and heavenly-minded christians ( however differing in some points concerning the christian profession ) and so work by thy spirit of power , love and wisdom , that they may be so united in brotherly affection , as speedily to consider one another in love : and to have compassion one of another under their unhappy differences in opinion . o destroy the spirit of pride and blood-thirstiness from amongst the christian people . and let all that are called by that name be ashamed that ever such wrath hath bin found amongst them , and let them be humbled before thy majesty in the remembrance of it , o lord , we beseech thee . most gracious god , we confess unto thee , we are not worthy to undertake any thing in behalf of the peace and vnity of divided christians : but thou ( o god ) that despisest not the base and weak things of this world , be intreated to bless our present enterprise , as it is consistent with thy pleasure , to the good of thy people universally ; that they may be one in truth and peace , according to thy word , which is truth . we beseech thee to bow the heart of the mighty , the wise and honorable in the christian nations , to study truth and peace , to condescend to any thing for thy glory , and thy peoples happiness : and we pray , that none who are called by thy name , may any longer be puffed up , for one , and against another . o teach those that love thee , to strive together with one mind for the truth and power of religion according to the gospel . good lord , be intreated for thy names sake , in behalf of all those that are of pious meaning , in these nations especially , that their hearts being intirely knit together in the great and more necessary parts of thy worship , they may glorifie thy name with one consent , by a charitable forbearance , in things which are not sinful in thy sight . we intreat thee ( our god ) make us thy servants ever to be ready on our parts , to evidence by act , what here we propose in words , and grant thy spirit to enable us herein to serve thee , and all such as fear thee , and love thy testimonies . and grant that none of thy people may uncharitably censure this our undertaking for concord amongst thy servants . grant them patience to consider what is here offered , and where we may seem deficient herein , lead others to supply what is wanting , that through thy blessing upon our united endeavours , the good here intended may be prosperously promoted , to thy praise , o lord , to the great increase of charity , and therewith to the true comfort of thy people throughout the whole world. even so , lord god almighty ; even , so , amen . a friendly epistle to all the bishops & ministers of the church of england . reverend sirs , may it please you in the meekness and gentleness of christ , to lay aside ( a little ) those exterior honours which are conferred upon you , and to condescend to men of low degree , and in that condescention seriously to ponder , what is herein with humility and sincerity submitted to your consideration . we do seriously account it a part of our infelicity , to see the distractions and divisions , which are in our land , about things relating to the worship of god , and our saviour jesus christ ; and therewithal it is too evident that the power of godliness is much neglected , and the ways of christianity greatly depraved , whereupon many that love the lord jesus , are so estranged among themselves , as to become adversaries to their own peace , and the comfort of each other . may it then please god , to lead us all to the consideration of these ill effects , and to remove the causes of them . and seeing we may perhaps be under worse apprehensions concerning one another , than there is real cause for , let it be calmly considered on both parts , that our greatest differences are about ceremonies ; and those also of humane device ( as we conceive ) the best of which are not worth the loss of one soul , and therefore in no wise fit to adventure the breach of our peace and christian concord , for their sake , which may be the cause of perishing to many . may it therefore seem well pleasing to you , the bishops of the church of england , with your brethren of the ministery , to admit of some friendly and free debate with the bishops and teachers of the baptized churches in this nation ; to try if by any means a way may be found to bring us to christian concrd in the gospel of god. to effect this , is either impossible , or difficult only . not the first , sith our differences lie not in the doctrinal part of any foundation-article of the christian religion , so much as in the application or practick part of them . for , to touch a little the grand points about which we differ , viz. sacred baptism , and the discipline of the church , of these we spake the same thing ; for thus you teach , that in baptism there is an inward and spiritual grace , and an outward and visible sign ; and that repentance , whereby we forsake sin , and faith , whereby we stedfastly believe the promises of god made to us in that sacrament , are the things required of all persons that are to be baptized . and hereunto we do most heartily subscribe . and touching holy discipline , your doctrine is , that the manner of proceeding in excommunication , is first by gentle admonition , and that once or twice given with the spirit of meekness , if the fault be not notoriously known : and next by open reprehension , afterwards by publick sentence of the church to put him from the company of the faithful , to deliver him to satan , to denounce him an heathen and a publican , if no admonitions will serve , and the crimes be very offensive . to this doctrine like wise we do give our full consent . nevertheless it must be granted a very great difficulty ( as things now stand ) to reform what is really amiss on your part in the practice relating to those two points of the christian religion ; especially seeing that the worldly interest of so many carnal-minded men , seems to depend upon the continuation of the errors which have befallen you in the practice of these holy institutes . howbeit this difficulty is not greater than it was to reform , what was as really amiss in that great ordinance , the lord's table , whether we consider their error who for many centuries gave the communion to infants ; or theirs , who by their transubstantiation destroy the very nature of the sacrament . nor shall we here forget , but thankfully remember the great travel and sufferings of your martyrs , and the pious zeal which appeared in many of them , when called to reduce that holy ordinance of the lord's supper from many corruptions , by which it had been prophaned . but yet we must needs condole their shortness , in not looking with like diligence into the pristine purity of the other sacrament . by which oversight , we which survive them , are exposed the more to our present difficulties . and hence we may borrow that passage in 1 chron. 15. 13. because ye did it not at the first , therefore the lord our god made a breach upon us , for that we sought him not after the due order . and here we ought to learn , that seeing god would not indulge his servant david in such an oversight ( when yet his intention was very pious ) will have his own methods duly observed in things pertaining to his service . your wisdoms know very well who hath said , a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump ; and that every plant which the heavenly father hath not planted , must be rooted up ; and how vain the worship ( even of the true god ) is esteemed by christ , which is taught by the precepts of men ? all which crys aloud that religion be restored to its primitive purity , that so men may give unto god the things that are god's , and cease to serve him with their own inventions . what we shall here propose to these holy ends , is no more than what at present we conceive to be very needful ; howbeit , we may not prescribe to you , but only offer an occasion to your wisdoms to consider us as christians , not as enemies . for it is evident that those coercive ways which some encline to , and under which we have bin , and still are exercised , are not like to effect christian amity and unity , but rather to make the breach much wider . that then it may please god ( even the god of peace ) to direct your wisdoms to those wholsome methods , which may be natural to procure and continue a lasting peace between us in the truth of the gospel , shall be our prayer to him for you , and in whose fear we humbly make these following proposals . and first . i. concerning the 39 articles , &c. as we have already hinted , that ( in our judgment ) some things in the 39 articles of the church do admit of some amendment , we shall therefore humbly propose our doubts in that case , that the fundamentals being secur'd , other things may the more easily be reconciled . 1. our first scruple concerns the third article , where it requires , belief that christ went down into hell , besides his being in the state of the dead , and buried in the sepulchre . now this passage is so dubious , as that even mr. rogers , who wrote a book in defence of the 39 articles , doth confess , that the native and undoubted sence of this article is not known , so that we conceive it ought not to be required as an article necessary to the christian * faith. 2. in the 8th article all things contain'd in the three creeds , are required [ throughly to be believed , ] in some of which , is the said clause , of christ's descension into hell , ( the meaning whereof is doubtful . ) and some terms in the creed of athanasius , are so hard to be understood , that we think they ought not to be imposed as necessary : we humbly conceive the modesty of hillary , more safe than some os the zealous speeches of athanasius , who tells us that whatsoever is used more , than the father , son , and holy ghost , is beyond the compass of speech , the reach of of sence , and the capacity of understanding . and though he had used the words [ three hypostasis ] yet he confesses this is to do things unlawful , to speak that which ought not to be spoken , to attempt things not licensed , to put things in peril of the speech of men , which ought to be kept in the religiousness of minds . and austin confesses that it ought not to be spoken , [ how ] the father , son , and holy spirit , are three . a holy trinity there is , but [ how ] it subsisteth god only knoweth . and here both the modesty and caution of mr. calvin also is worth our consideration , who speaking of the titles , or expressions , viz. a trinity of persons in the vnity of the godhead , saith , if the names have not been without cause invented , we ought to take heed that in rejecting them we be not justly blamed of proud presumptuousness . i would to god ( saith he ) they where buried indeed , so that this faith were agreed of all men , that the father , son and holy ghost are one god , and yet that the father is not the son , nor the holy ghost the son , but distinct by certain properties . instit . l. 1. c. 1. sect. 5. 3. the 13th article would have it believed , that no works done without faith in jesus christ are pleasant to god , &c. which we think is doubtful , considering how it is said that the prayers and alms of cornelius were come up for a memorial before god. act. 10. 1 , 2 , 3. yet 't is certain he did not then know jesus christ . 4. the 18th article seems doubtful , where it teacheth , that none can be saved who diligently frame their life according to the light or law of nature , &c. whereas if god have given them no other law or light to walk by , we conceive it more safe for us to leave them to the lord ( who will not gather where he hath not strewed ) than thus to censure them . 5. the second paragraph of the 27th article may well be omited , seeing it is granted by learned protestants , that there is no plain scripture for infant baptism . instead of which paragraph it may safely be inserted , that the infants of christians should be devoted to god by prayer and blessing , which may be justified by the law of nature , and specially by the words of christ , mat. 19. 6. 6. the 36 article not necessary to be imposed as an article of the christian faith , seeing that book of consecration of archbishops , bishops , ordering of priests and deacons , is not of divine authority ; and it must needs be more safe to refer the business of consecrating , or ordaining christ's ministers ( of what rank soever ) to the rules given in the holy scripture . and hence we do further conceive , it is very needful that those severe sentences of excommunication contain'd in the book of canons and constitutions ecclesiastical ( specially these two , contain'd in can. 5. & 9. ) be recalled . for seeing they themselves ( that composed the 39 articles ) were but men , ( though pious men ) and therefore ( as themselves teach , art. 21. ) might possibly err , even in things pertaining to god. therefore ( as they further say ) things ordained by them , have neither strength nor authority , unless it may be declared , that they be taken out of the word of god. nor ought the church to enforce any thing to be believed for necessity of salvation , which is either against or besides the word of god , as they also teach , article 20. thus much of the 39 articles . ii. concerning the visible church of christ . 1. as it is rightly acknowledged by christians generally , and particularly by the church of england , article 19. that the church of christ is a congregation of faithful men , in which the pure word of god is preached , and the sacraments duly administred according to christ's ordinance , in all those things , which of necessity are requisite to the same ; so it may be as truly observed that none be admitted members of this visible church , or mystical body of christ ; till they give evidence that they are faithful , at least by their personal profession of the faith of christ , and willingness to walk in newness of life , according to the principles or general rules of the christian religion , contain'd in the holy scriptures , the rule of faith. 2. and seeing it is the work of god through which man with the heart believeth unto righteousness , from which faith only can proceed that confession with the mouth which is to salvation ; that therefore it may be firmly agreed , that humane force or violence is not the means ordain'd of god to propagate the church of christ . but that preaching the gospel , and walking holily in charity towards all men , are the true and proper means to encrease the church , according to the will and commandment of the everlasting god , made known to all nations in that behalf . iii. concerning regeneration , and baptism . 1. that as conversion or regeneration is necessary to the christian-state of every sinner , so it may be joyntly held and professed that the baptism of repentance , for remission of sins , is an ordinance of christ , and necessary to the admission of all men to the priviledges of his church : and that the things required of all that are to be baptized , are repentance , whereby they forsake sin , and faith , whereby they stedfastly believe the promises of god , made to them in that sacrament . 2. that as it is granted on all hands , that immersion in water agrees best with the word baptize , and was the primitive way of baptizing ; so this ordinance may therein be restored to its purity according to its primitive institution ; and that to this end , there may be baptisterions , or fit places to baptize in , appointed for the solemn performance of this ordinance . iv. concerning infants , or little-children . 1. that all infants of christians be solemnly devoted to christ by prayer and blessing , and that the ministers of christ be assistant in this work , not forbidding them this blessing , mat. 19. 13 , 14. 2. that every minister of christ residing in any country-village be obliged , in consideration of convenient maintenance , to teach all the children in his precincts to read the holy scriptures , and to instruct them in the principles of the christian religion ( heb. 6. 1 , 2. ) and that they may be baptized , when they shall profess repentance towards god , and faith towards our lord jesus christ . and that the like care be used in cities , and great towns , in such manner as may be most convenient . 5. concerning laying on of hands . 1. that the fourth principle of christ's doctrine ( called laying on of hands , ) be restored 〈◊〉 its due use and purity in the church ▪ namely , tha● when any converts are baptised , then praye●● with the laying on of hands , be speedily made t● god for them , that they may receive the promi●● of the spirit by faith , and that it may retain i● ancient titles , given it by the holy ghost , ( viz. laying on of hands , or a principle of the doctrine 〈◊〉 christ . 2. to the end this service of god be not neglecte● that it may be allowed , that all faithful oversee● of particular congregations , may perfor● this service upon the newly baptised ; speciall● in the absence of such a minister as has a mo●● general charge , be he called the angel , or messenger of the churches . and that care be take● that the christians who have not known th● principle of christ's doctrine , be deliberately instructed concerning it , before they be made comformable to it . 6. concerning publick prayers , and the manner 〈◊〉 singing the praises of god in the churches . an● of the removal of such ceremonies as 〈◊〉 not to edification . 1. seeing the prayers contain'd in holy scrip●ure ( and especially the lords prayer ) are suf●icient to direct the man of god in that duty of prayer in the church , that therefore the book of common prayer be not imposed , and that ●t may be in the liberty of the minister to pray ●n the church according to the ability which god hath given him , that so the spirit of prayer , as well as the order of it , may be preser●ed . 2. that it be joyntly agreed that singing the praises of god in psalms , hymns , and spiritual ●ongs , is a holy ordinance of god , and that ●he order and spirit of that duty be restored ▪ god assisting ) according to 1 cor. 14. and other rules contain'd in the holy scripture . and that musical instruments , bowing to the altar , the ●ign of the cross , the surplice , or any other , unne●essary ceremony , be prudently removed out of ●he service of god in all churches . 7. concerning church-discipline . 1. that the exercise of discipline be restored in 〈◊〉 churches according to the scriptures , and 〈◊〉 doctrine of the church of england , fore●●cited in this epistle . 2. to the intent that no sinner be indulged in ●is iniquity for money , that it may not be p●r●itted that any officer concern'd in the execution of discipline , take any manner of fees o● the offenders , or any other person for them and that such ministers be entrusted with th● exercise of discipline , as are men of know integrity , holiness and self-denial . and th●● holy discipline be executed in or near the plac● where the offences are committed , accordin● to the order of the primitive churches . 8. concerning ordination , and preaching the word . 1. that the election and ordination of min●sters , of what rank soever , be restored ( wher●in it shall appear to have been neglected ) in 〈◊〉 most solemn manner that may be , accordi●● to the scriptures : and that such ministe●● among the baptized believers , as shall be fou●● to have been so elected and ordained , be ●●lowed to preach the gospel , to edifie the pe●ple , and to dispense the holy ordinances . 2. that the primitive liberty of prophesyi●● to edification , exhortation , and comfort , be 〈◊〉 stored to the church , i. e. as it shall please 〈◊〉 to give men the gift of teaching , exhorta●●on , &c. they may be permitted with prude●● to edifie the people by the modest exercise●● their gifts in the churches . 9. concerning the m●intenance of christ's ministers , and the relief of poor christiant . 1. that it be agreed , that the relief of the poor , 〈◊〉 that those who preach the gospel should 〈◊〉 of the gospel , are god's ordinances , and 〈◊〉 be performed with all faithfulness by all ●hristians according to their ability . but that 〈◊〉 methods for performance of them , are ●●ythes for the one , or assessment for the other , 〈◊〉 only jure humano , and that therefore the same ●●wer magistratical which gave being to these ●ethods , may lawfully alter the same to the ●tter when they please . 2. and that therefore it be further agreed and ●●clared , that the way asfign'd in holy scripture 〈◊〉 the support of christ's ministers , and the ●●lief of poor christians , is by a free contribu●●on , to be constantly upheld in the churches , ●●cording to every ones ability ; and the mo●●y so collected to be entrusted in the hands 〈◊〉 the deacons of the church , and by them to 〈◊〉 faithfully distributed as occasion requires . ●nd that therefore such as will stand to christ's ●●lowance , and for his name-sake minister the ●ospel freely to the gentiles , may be still had in ●eputation ; and sent forth by the church 〈◊〉 restore christianity where it is corrupted ; 〈◊〉 to plant the gospel where it is not known . 10. concerning separation . 1. it 's here propounded , as greatly necessary to a tru● christian state , that some effectual course be resolve● upon , to keep ( as far as may be consistent with trut● and charity ) a holy and just distinction , between thos● who lead wicked and scandalous lives , and them tha● live holily , according to the general rules of christianity , without respect of persons . 2. that this care be taken more especially concerning the ministery ; otherwise we shall still have multitudes of prophane and debauched men set up as leaders . and we see by experientce the people are too ready to follow their ill examples , and the consequence mus● needs be lamentable ; as it is written , they eat up th● sins of my people ; and set their heart on their iniquities , and there shall be like people like priest ; and 〈◊〉 will punish them for their wayes , and reward the● their doings . jer. 15. 18. ii. concerning the means to effect the vnity desired . 1. that it would please you , the bishops of the church of england , to petition the king's majesty , that it may be made lawful by an act of parliament , or by his royall permission , for a competent number of representatives of such dissenters , as have a mind to unite with the church of england , to meet in christian counsel with your selves , and to agree ( upon mature deliberation ) on such articles as may ( if god see i● good ) put a period to our present animosities and divisions . 2. that if these proposals do not hold agreement with the good old way of christianity , then we desire they may be rejected , and that you would be pl●ased to propose things which may be more effectual to procure the unity desired . for our record is on high , and we have also the testimony of our conscience , that in sim●licity , and godly sincerity , not with fleshly wisdom , but by ●he grace of god , we desire to have our conversation 〈◊〉 the gospel with you , and with all that love christ 〈◊〉 our nation . trusting in the lord , that the u●●ting of such in the truth in general , may effectually ●ove many to jealousie with themselves , who are now ●●tangled in error , or involved in prophaneness , that ●hey may be converted from the evil of their ways , and ●onsequently our nation to abound with all blessings , ●specially the blessing of the gospel of peace . for godliness hath the promise of the life that now is , and of that which is to come . finally , if these endeavours for christian concord with all that fear god , and work righteousness in this nation , be rejected , yet herein shall we have some peace and comfort , that we have made the best essay we could for brotherly concord with them : being also ●eriously desirous utterly to forget all the hard things which in time past we have suffered from our countrey-men . hoping that the sober protestant hath had good occasion by this time to observe , that god almighty hath pleaded the innocency of our principles and purpose , from the evils too frequently ▪ and most unjustly suggested against them ; and that therefore we may now with the greater freedom of speech , express our selves as in the premises , and conclude with the modest speech of augustine . this then is our desire , which we do alledge by these letters unto your reverence , first , if it may be that you would confer with our bishops peaceably and quie●ly , to the end that error be taken away from those in whom it shall be found , and not that men be taken away , nor punished , but gently corrected . but before we shut up this epistle it will be needful to answer two objections which may seem to be of 〈…〉 we have said . obj ▪ 1. it will be objected , that we ask or desir● many things , and grant but few . ans . 1. that we hope we have desired nothing bu● what is rational , according to the sound principles 〈◊〉 christianity ; and which will be profitable to the churc● of god , when granted . 2. we stand ready to hear what our friends of th● church of england , will require of us , to answer tho● kindnesses which we desire of them , and hope we shadeny them nothing which we may lawfully grant . 2. obj. that the alteration which we propose in t●● case of baptism , amounts to a renunciation of th●● christianity , and to begin anew to become christians ▪ ans . the church of england does not only retai● the substance of what truth ●he hath received concernin● baptism , by altering to the better ; but will indeed the be consistant with the truth of her own doctrine in the fi● paragraph of her 27th article , and her vulgar catechis● which she hath rather made void hitherto by the custo● of paedobaptism . 2. if we take the text act. 19. 5. according to t● exposition of the ancients , and divers modern writ● ( as that is indeed the native and clear sence of t● place ) it will then be a good president to the chur●● of england to alter the subject and manner of her ba●tism ; for here we see , these ephesians being not right instructed concerning the grounds of baptism , when th● were baptized unto john's baptism , are therefore ba●tized again , upon more perfect instruction ; yet 〈◊〉 they not renounce the least part of christianity , 〈◊〉 any truth which they had received concerning baptis● but did rather perfect that infirm baptism which th● had received . and it is a just presumption that the first baptism was more valid then paedobaptism , 〈◊〉 infants know nothing at all , either what they do , what is done to them , but oppose it what in them 〈◊〉 , whereas these at ephesus were disciples , ver . 1 , ●uch as did know unto what they had been baptized , 〈◊〉 . 3 , and yet are baptized again , because not duly in●ormed before concerning the grounds of baptism ; and ●his is written for our learning , when our case is like ●heirs . postscript . the reader may be confident , we are not without foresight , that our hearty desire and endeavour for truth ●nd peace , will be little regarded by many ; some will cen●ure us , others contemn us , and what we have here pro●osed . but be it so , yet we also hope some will consider what we ●ave offered ; and may it but give some light to a better ●nderstanding of the case depending , or move any whose ●ircumstances may render them more serviceable to promote truth and peace amongst dissenting christians , we shall ●e content to labour , and suffer reproach , because we trust 〈◊〉 the living god. since the precedent epistle was written , some of us have 〈◊〉 a sermon lately preached by dr. stillingfleet , on phil. ● 16. wherein he also endeavours for peace amongst dissening christians ; but there is one thing necessary ( which he ●oes not much meddle with ) and that is to shew , that the ●hurch he would have us to communicate with , is such for constitution and government as was that at philippi . ●hen he shall do this , he may be confident small faults ●●ll not keep us from her communion : and that she may 〈◊〉 such , is the unfeigned desire and eadeavour of the au●●ors of the precedent epistle . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a41779-e110 * by truth in this place we intend chiefly what is needful to a true church-state , and an holy life . * 1 cor 3. 3 , 4. & 11. 18 , 19 , 20 , 21. & 15. 12 , 29. 2 cor. 12. 20 , 21. see also clem. ep. at large and it will fully appear . * this letter has been printed about 24 years , and never yet contradicted by dr. barlow . see mr. tombes his praeface to the reader in the third part of his full review of the dispute concerning infant baptism . p. 8 , 9. * mr. baxter tells us , many both papists and prela●ists , have maintain'd that infant baptism is not determined in scripture , but depends on the tradition of the church . def. princ. of love , p. 7. and dr. jer. taylor tells us , there is no prime tradition for infant baptism . see his disswas . from popery . * note , that the division at corinth was occasioned by laying aside the primitive institution of christ concerning the ministery , the ancient bishops or elders being thrust out , &c. and our divisions are occasioned by either the laying aside , or the not duly observing christ's ordinances touching the constitution and government of his church according to the primitive pattern . notes for div a41779-e1210 see your church catechism . * and it is granted by learned protestants , that this clause of christ's descent into hell was not always in the 4th article of the creed , as the nicen creed , and divers others do witness . see mr. ross's abridgment of divinity , pag. 115. see mr. calvin instit . l. 1. chap. 13. sect. 5. out of whom this quotation is taken . aug. ep. 58. ad jan. & donat. the articles of the faith of the church of christ, or, congregation meeting at horsley-down benjamin keach, pastor, as asserted this 10th of the 6th month, 1697. keach, benjamin, 1640-1704. 1697 approx. 53 kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from 25 1-bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; 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(eebo-tcp ; phase 1, no. a47381) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set 61805) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, 1641-1700 ; 944:4) the articles of the faith of the church of christ, or, congregation meeting at horsley-down benjamin keach, pastor, as asserted this 10th of the 6th month, 1697. keach, benjamin, 1640-1704. [12], 3-40 p. [s.n.], london : 1697. reproduction of original in union theological seminary library, new york. created by converting tcp files to tei p5 using tcp2tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between 1473 and 1700 available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the 25,363 texts created during phase 1 of the project have been released into the public domain as of 1 january 2015. anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. 5% (or 5 pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of 100 instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level 4 of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p5, characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng baptists -doctrines. baptists -england -early works to 1800. 2005-04 tcp assigned for keying and markup 2005-07 spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images 2005-08 emma (leeson) huber sampled and proofread 2005-08 emma (leeson) huber text and markup reviewed and edited 2005-10 pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion the articles of the faith of the church of christ , or congregation meeting at horsley-down , benjamin keach , pastor , as asserted this 10 th of the 6 th month , 1697. london ; printed in the year 1697. to the congregation with whom i am a member ( and the unworthy overseer ) who are in god the father , and in our lord jesus christ ; grace , mercy and peace be multiplied . most dear and beloved in christ : i hope i can say ( with the holy apostle ) that you are by me dearly beloved , my joy , and my crown ; yea you are my honour , and in you i would rejoice , being the ornament of my poor ministry , by which the most of you have ( through the blessing of god ) been converted to jesus christ : and if you stand fast in the faith in one spirit , striving together for the faith of the gospel , and do adorn your profession , living in love , and endeavouring to keep the unity of the spirit in the bond of peace , you will cause my latter days to be most sweet and comfortable to me , after all those troubles , sorrows , and reproaches i have met with , both from within and from without . evident it is god hath most eminently appeared to strengthen your hands : tho the archers have sorely grieved you , and shot at you , yet your bow abideth in strength ; and that the arms of your hands may still abide strong by the arm of the mighty god of jacob , shall be my continual prayers . my brethren , i here present you with that which you have so long waited for , and desired me to endeavour to do , viz. to state an account of the most concerning articles of your faith , which you have heard read , and have approved of , and which i thought good no longer to delay the doing of . ( 1. ) not knowing how soon i may put off this tabernacle , and therefore would leave behind me an account of that holy doctrine and order , in which through grace you are established ( for at your desire also i have drawn up the whole rules of your holy discipline , which you may have added unto this , and bound up together ) . ( 2. ) and the rather i have done this , because the general and more large confession of the faith of our churches , is now out of print ; but that is not all , for that being 12 d. price , some cannot well purchase it . ( 3. ) and also that all men may see what our faith is , and that we differ not from our brethren who bear other names in any fundamental point or article of faith ; and that they may discern the difference between you and some that bear the same name with you . ( 4. ) tho you agree in the general with all other churches of the same faith , in all those articles there inserted , yet therein your whole faith is not comprehended , viz. that of imposition of hands upon baptized believers as such , and singing of god's praise , &c. because some of our churches dissent from us therein : yet my desire is you would nevertheless shew all tenderness , charity and moderation to such as differ from you in those cases , and not refuse communion with them ; and indeed your late sweet temper appears to be such , that i need not press you to this . all that i shall say more , is to entreat you to labour after holiness , and to awake out of sleep , that you may adorn your sacred profession , and prepare to meet the lord ; that as you have a good doctrine , you may also have a holy and good conversation ; and then we need not fear who can harm us , whilst we are followers of that which is good , o let us bear one with another . and if in any thing we differ , let us avoid all animosities . brethren , great things are near , watch and pray , look out and be ready . but at present i shall conclude with the words of the apostle , finally , brethren , farewel ; be perfect , be of good comfort , be of one mind , live in peace , and the god of love and peace shall be with you . so prays your unworthy brother , pastor , overseer , and servant , who earnestly desires your prayers , also , b. keach . from my house in freemans-lane by horsley-down , southwark . aug. 16. 1697. that the following articles contain what the foresaid church believes concerning those truths asserted therein , we whose names are hereunto subscribed , do testify in the name and by the appointment of the whole congregation , the 10 th day of the 6 th month , commonly called august , 1697. benjamin keach , pastor . benjamin stinton , teacher . john roberts , deacon . edward foley , deacon . joshua farrow , deacon . tho. stinton , deacon . john valley , deacon . isaac ballard , deacon . john hoar , sen. edward newbury , tho. turner , john seamor , ephraim wilcocks , james wilmott , daniel dines , richard thoubals , john weston , john clark , tho. ayers , john york , george starkey , sen. benj. harris , george starkey , jun. john beavis , tho. hill , joseph berry , william farmworth , joseph jennings , john fowle , sen. tho. fowle , john fowle , jun. henry skeer , john greensmith , jeremiah lions , william putman , nath. holden , william cattrel , tho. harvey , tho. richford , joseph worley , peter carter , william forister , sam. cox. john sparke , james king , william deale , simon agars , john hoar , jun. tho. gunning , william mais . the articles of faith of the church of christ meeting at horsley-down . of god , and of the holy trinity . i. we do believe , declare and testify , that there is but one only living and true god , who is a spirit infinite , eternal , immense and unchangeable in his being , wisdom , power , holiness , justice , goodness , truth and faithfulness . ii. that there are three persons in the godhead , the father , the son , and holy spirit ; and that these three are one god , the same in essence , equal in power and glory . of the decrees of god. iii. that the decrees of god are his eternal purpose according to the counsel of his will , whereby for his own glory he hath foreordained whatsoever comes to pass , even those evils that his wisdom and justice permits for the manifestation of the glory of those his attributes : and that god executes his decrees in the works of creation and providence . of creation . iv. that the works of creation are god's creating all things of nothing by his word of power , in six days , and all very good . that god created man male and female , after his own image , in knowledg , righteousness , and holiness , with power and dominion over the creatures . of god's providence . v. we believe that god's works of providence are his most holy , wise , and powerful preserving , and governing all his creatures , and their actions . of the holy scriptures . vi. we believe the holy scriptures of the old and new testament are the word of god , and are the only rule of faith , and practice ; all things being contained therein that are necessary for us to know concerning god , and our duty unto him , and also unto all men. that all persons ought to read , hear , and understand the holy scriptures . that the light of nature , and works of providence , tho they declare plainly there is a god , yet not so effectually as the holy scriptures ; nor can we know without them how , and in what space of time god created all things . neither came we any other ways but by the holy scriptures to the knowledg of christ the blessed mediator ; which indeed none can savingly know but by the word and spirit of god. of original sin. vii . we do believe , that god having created man , he entered into a covenant of life with him , upon the condition of perfect obedience ; making the first adam a common head to all his seed : and that our first parents being left to the freedom of their own will , fell from the estate wherein they were created , by eating of the forbidden fruit : and that adam being set up as a publick person , we all sinned in him , and fell with him into a state of sin , of wrath and misery ; the sinfulness of which state consists in the guilt of adam's first sin , the want of original righteousness , and the corruption of our whole nature : from whence all actual sins proceed , as water out of a filthy and an unclean fountain . so that not only by imputation all men became sinners in the first adam , but also as the same corrupt nature is conveyed to all his posterity , who descend from him in ordinary generation . by this sin all mankind lost the image of god , and communion with him , being liable to all the miseries of this life , and to death itself ; and also are dead in sins and trespasses , and obnoxious to the wrath of god , and the eternal pains of hell for ever . hence we say that all are conceiv'd and born in sin , and are the children of wrath , even the elect as well as others , being wholly defiled in all the faculties and parts of soul and body , and utterly indisposed and disabled to do any thing that is spiritually good , and wholly inclined with a strong propensity to all things that are evil . of man's free-will . viii . we believe man in his state of innocency had freedom of will to do good ; but by the fall he hath utterly lost all that power and ability , being wofully depraved in all the faculties of his soul ; there being in the will and mind of all naturally much enmity against god , and a total aversion to him , and to every thing that is spiritually good ; loving darkness , and rebelling against the light. but when a man is renewed by divine grace , tho there is no force put upon the will , yet it is made willing , and acts freely , in the day of god's power : tho the work is not perfect in any faculty in the regenerate , nor will be in this life . of christ the mediator . ix . we believe that god having , out of his own meer good pleasure , and infinite love , elected some persons of the lost seed of the first adam unto everlasting life , from all eternity , did enter into a covenant of grace with the second person of the trinity , ( who was set up as the common head of all the elect ) to deliver them out of the state of sin and misery , and to bring them into a state of salvation and eternal happiness . that the second person in the godhead , ( being the eternal son of god , coessential , and coequal with the father ) according to that holy covenant and compact that was between them both , became man , or assumed our nature , and so was , and continueth to be god and man in two distinct natures , in one person for ever . and that he the son of god by his becoming man , did take unto him a true body , and reasonable soul , being conceived by the holy spirit in the womb of the virgin , and was born of her , yet without sin. of the offices of christ. x. we believe that the lord jesus christ , who is our redeemer , and the one blessed mediator between god and man , executeth a threefold office , both the office of a priest , the office of a king , and the office of a prophet . first , that he executeth the office of a priest , ( 1. ) in his once offering up himself a sacrifice , to satisfy divine justice , and to reconcile god to us , and us to god. ( 2. ) and in making continual intercession for us , that the merits of his blood may be made effectual unto us . secondly , that he executeth the office of a king in subduing us unto himself , and in giving us laws and holy precepts , by which we ought to walk ; and also in his restraining and conquering all his , and our enemies . thirdly , that he executeth the office of a prophet , in revealing to us by his word and spirit , the whole will of god concerning all things that appertain to faith and practice . of christ's humiliation and exaltation . xi . we believe that christ's humiliation consisted in that great condescension of his in assuming our nature , and being born in a low condition , made under the law , undergoing the many miseries of this life , the wrath of god , the curse of the law , and the ignominious death of the cross , continuing under death for a time . and that his exaltation consisteth in his rising again from the dead the third day , and in his ascending up into heaven , in sitting at the right-hand of god ; angels , powers , and principalities being made subject unto him ; and in his being made judg of the quick and dead . of effectual calling . xii . we do believe that we are made partakers of the redemption purchased by christ , by the effectual application of his merits , &c. unto us by the holy spirit , thereby uniting us to christ in effectual calling : and that effectual calling is the work of god's free grace , who by his spirit works faith in us , who are altogether passive therein ; and convincing us of sin and misery , enlightning our minds in the knowledg of christ , and renewing our wills , and changing our whole hearts , he doth perswade and enable us to imbrace jesus christ freely , as he is offered in the gospel . of justification . xiii . we do believe justification is a free act of god's grace , through that redemption which is in christ , ( who , as our head , was acquitted , justified , and discharged , and we in him , when he rose from the dead ) and when applied to us , we in our own persons are actually justified , in being made and pronounced righteous , through the righteousness of christ imputed to us ; and all our sins , past , present , and to come , for ever pardon'd ; which is receiv'd by faith alone . and that our sanctification , nor faith it self , is any part of our justification before god ; it not being either the habit , or act of believing , or any act of evangelical obedience imputed to us , but christ , and his active and passive obedience only , apprehended by faith : and that faith in no sense tends to make christ's merits more satisfactory unto god ; but that he was as fully reconciled and satisfied for his elect in christ by his death before faith as after ; otherwise it would render god only reconcileable , ( not reconciled ) and make faith part of the payment or satisfaction unto god , and so lessen the merits of christ , as if they were defective or insufficient . yet we say , it is by faith that we receive the atonement , or by which means ( as an instrument ) we come to apprehend and receive him , and to have personal interest in him , and to have our free justification evidenced to our own consciences . of adoption . xiv . we believe adoption is an act of god's free grace , whereby such who were the children of wrath by nature , are received into the number , and have right to all the privileges of the sons of god ; and that such who are adopted , are also by the spirit regenerated , and hence said to be born of god. of sanctification . xv. that sanctification is the work of god's free grace also , whereby we are renewed in the whole man after the image of god , and are inabled more and more to die unto sin , and live unto righteousness . and that the benefits we receive , and which flow from or accompany justification , are adoption , sanctification , peace of conscience , manifestations of god's love , joy in the holy ghost , an increase of grace , an assurance of eternal life , and final perseverance unto the end . of the souls of men at death . xvi . we believe , that at death the souls of believers are made perfect in holiness , and do immediately pass into glory ; and their bodies dying in union with christ , or dying in the lord , do rest in their graves till the resurrection , when they shall be raised up in glory . and that their souls being reunited to their bodies , they shall be openly acknowledged , and acquitted , and made compleatly blessed , both in soul and body , and shall have the full injoyment of god to all eternity . and that the souls of the wicked at their death are cast into hell , or are in torment : and that their bodies lie in the grave under wrath , and shall by virtue of the power of christ be raised from the dead ; and their souls being re-united to their bodies , shall be judged and condemned , and cast into a furnace of fire , or into unspeakable torment , with the devil and his angels , for ever and ever . of the law. xvii . we believe god requires obedience of man , and that the rule of that obedience is the moral law as it is in the hands of christ ; which teacheth all persons their duty to god , and to man ; the sum of all being this , to love the lord our god with all our hearts , with all our souls , and with all our strength , and our neighbours as our selves . and that tho the law is abolished as a covenant of works , and as so considered , we are dead to it , and that dead to us ; yet it remains as a rule of life and righteousness for ever . xviii . we believe no mere man , since the fall , is able in this life perfectly to keep the holy law of god ; and that every offence against the law deserves eternal death , tho some sins are more heinous in god's sight than others . and that god , as a simple act of mercy , will not , doth not , pardon any man ; neither doth it seem consistent with his holiness and justice so to do , without a full satisfaction : wherefore he substituted christ in our room and stead , perfectly to keep the whole law , and to die , or bear that wrath which we deserved for our breaking of it ; he being pleased in his infinite love and grace to transfer our sins , guilt and punishment , upon his own son , ( who took our nature upon him , as our blessed head and representative ) that his active obedience and righteousness might be our just title unto eternal life ; and his death ( who bore our hell-torments ) be our full discharge from the wrath of god , and eternal condemnation . and that all who would receive this title , and have this discharge so as to escape god's wrath , and the curse of the law , must fly to christ , and lay hold on him by faith ; which faith is known by its fruits , having lively , sin-killing , soul-humbling , self-abasing , christ-exalting , and heart-purifying operations , always attending it . of faith and repentance . xix . we believe that faith is a saving grace , or the most precious gift of god ; and that it is an instrument whereby we receive , take hold of , and wholly rest upon jesus christ , as offered to us in the gospel . that repentance unto life is also a saving grace , whereby a sinner , out of a true sense of sin , and apprehension of god's mercy in christ , doth with grief and hatred of his sins , turn from them . and that tho repentance is in order of nature called the first principle of the doctrine of christ , yet we believe no man can savingly repent , unless he believes in jesus christ , and apprehends the free pardon and forgiveness of all his sins through the blood of the everlasting covenant , and the sight and sense of god's love in a bleeding saviour ; being that only thing that melts and breaks the stony heart of a poor sinner , as the sight of a free pardon from a prince humbles the stout heart of a rebellious malefactor . of the means of grace . xx. we believe that the outward and more ordinary means , whereby christ communicates to us the benefits of redemption , are his holy ordinances , as prayer , the word of god , and preaching , with baptism , and the lord's supper , &c. and yet notwithstanding it is the spirit of god that maketh prayer , reading , &c. and specially the preaching of the word , effectual to the convincing , converting , building up , and comforting , through faith , all the elect of god unto salvation . and that it is the duty of all , that the word may become effectual to their salvation , to attend upon it with all diligence , preparation , and prayer , that they may receive it with faith and love , and lay it up in their hearts , and practise it in their lives . of baptism . xxi . we believe that baptism is a holy ordinance of christ , or a pure gospel-institution ; and to be unto the party baptized , a sign of his fellowship with christ in his death , burial , and resurrection , and of his being grafted into him , and of remission of sins , and of his giving himself up to god , through jesus christ , to walk in newness of life . we also believe that baptism ought not to be administred to any but to those who actually profess repentance towards god , and faith towards our lord jesus christ. that the infants of believers ought not to be baptized , because there is neither precept , or example , or any certain consequence in the holy scripture for any such practice : and we ought not to be wise above what is written . and that a human tradition or custom ought not to be regarded , but that it is sinful , and abominable . we believe also that baptism is only rightly administred by immersion , or dipping the whole body in water , into the name of the father , and of the son , and of the holy spirit ; according to christ's institution , and the practice of the apostles ; and not by sprinkling , or pouring of water , or dipping some part of the body in water , after the tradition of men. and that it is the indispensible duty of such who are baptized , to give up themselves to some particular orderly church of jesus christ , and to walk in all the commandments and ordinances of the lord blameless : baptism being an initiating ordinance . of a true church . xxii . we believe a true church of christ is not national , nor parochial , but doth consist of a number of godly persons , who upon the profession of their faith and repentance have been baptized , and in a solemn manner have in a holy covenant given themselves up to the lord , and to one another , to live in love , and to endeavour to keep the vnity of the spirit in the bond of peace : among whom the word of god is duly and truly preach'd ; and holy baptism , the lord's supper , and all other ordinances are duly administred , according to the word of god , and the institution of christ in the primitive church : watching over one another , and communicating to each other's necessities , as becometh saints ; living holy lives , as becomes their sacred profession ; and not to forsake the assembling themselves , as the manner of some is ; or to take leave to hear where they please in other places when the church is assembled , but to worship god , and feed in that pasture , or with that church , with whom they have covenanted , and given up themselves as particular members thereof . of laying on of hands . xxiii . we believe that laying on of hands ( with prayer ) upon baptized believers , as such , is an ordinance of christ , and ought to be submitted unto by all such persons that are admitted to partake of the lord's supper ; and that the end of this ordinance is not for the extraordinary gifts of the spirit , but for a farther reception of the holy spirit of promise , or for the addition of the graces of the spirit , and the influences thereof ; to confirm , strengthen , and comfort them in christ jesus ; it being ratified and established by the extraordinary gifts of the spirit in the primitive times , to abide in the church , as meeting together on the first day of the week was , act. 2.1 . that being the day of worship , or christian sabbath , under the gospel ; and as preaching the word was , acts 10.44 . and as baptism was , mat. 3.16 . and prayer was , acts 4.31 . and singing psalms , &c. was , acts 16.25 , 26. so this of laying on of hands was , acts 8. & ch . 19. for as the whole gospel was confirmed by signs and wonders , and divers miracles and gifts of the holy ghost in general , so was every ordinance in like manner confirmed in particular . of the lord's supper . xxiv . we believe that the holy ordinance of the lord's supper , which he instituted the night before he was betrayed , ought to be observed to the end of the world ; and that it consisteth only in breaking of bread , and drinking of wine , in remembrance of christ's death ; it being appointed for our spiritual nourishment , and growth in grace , and as a farther engagement in , and to all duties we owe to jesus christ , and as a pledg of his eternal love to us , and as a token of our communion with him , and one with another . and that due preparation and examination is required of all that ought to partake thereof ; and that it cannot be neglected by any approved and orderly member without sin. of church-officers . xxv . we do believe that every particular church of christ is independent ; and that no one church hath any priority or super-intendency above or over another : and that every church ought to be organical : that an elder , or elders , a deacon , or deacons , ought to be elected in every congregation , according to those holy qualifications laid down in the word of god : and that the said elders and deacons so chosen , ought solemnly to be ordained with prayer , and laying on of hands of the eldership . that such churches as have not officers so ordained , are disorderly , there being something still wanting . of prayer . xxvi . we believe prayer is a holy ordinance of god , and that it ought to be performed by the help and assistance of the holy spirit ; and that not only the prayer christ taught his disciples , but the whole word of god is to be our rule how to pray , and pour forth our souls unto god : and that it is the indispensible duty of all godly families ( and others also ) as well as private christians , daily to pray for all things they need , and to give thanks every day for all good things they receive : and that the omission of this duty is a great scandal to religion , and a great evil when it is carelesly or negligently performed . of singing of psalms , &c. xxvii . we believe that singing the praises of god , is a holy ordinance of christ , and not a part of natural religion , or a moral duty only ; but that it is brought under divine institution , it being injoined on the churches of christ to sing psalms , hymns , and spiritual songs ; and that the whole church in their publick assemblies ( as well as private christians ) ought to sing god's praises , according to the best light they have received . moreover , it was practised in the great representative church , by our lord jesus christ with his disciples , after he had instituted and celebrated the sacred ordinance of his holy supper , as a commemorative token of redeeming love. of the christian sabbath . xxviii . we believe that one day in seven , ought to be solemnly observed in the worship of god ; and that by moses's law the jews and proselyted strangers were to keep the seventh day : but from the resurrection of christ the first day of the week ought by all christians to be observed holy to the lord , that being called the lord's day ; and the first time the church met together after christ's ascension was on the day of pentecost , which was the first day of the week , as tradition hath handed it down : and on that day the church also met together to break bread , and make collections for the poor saints : and no mention is made that any one gospel-church kept the jewish sabbath in all the new testament . and we believe that an apostolical precedent is equivalent to an apostolical precept in this case . of ministers , and their maintenance . xxix . we do believe that every brother that hath received a gift to preach , having first pass'd the probation of the church , and being regularly called by the same , ought to exercise the said gift to the edification of the church when desired ; and that no brother ought to take upon him to preach , until he has a lawful call so to do . moreover , we believe that it is the indispensible duty of every church , according to their ability , to provide their pastor , or elders , a comfortable maintenance ; as god hath ordained , that he that preaches the gospel , should live of the gospel , and not of his own labour ; but that he should wholly give himself up to the work of the ministry , and to watch over the flock , being to be freed from all secular business , and encumbrances of the world : and yet that it is abominable evil for any man to preach the gospel for filthy lucre sake , but he must do it of a ready mind . of the first covenant . xxx . we believe that the first covenant , or covenant of works , was primarily made with adam , and with all mankind in him , by virtue of which he stood in a justified state before the fall , upon the condition of his own perfect and personal obedience . but by the fall he made himself uncapable of life by that covenant . that the law god gave by moses to israel , was of the same nature of that given to adam , being a second ministration of it ; but not given for life , but to make sin exceeding sinful , and to shew how unable man was in his fallen state to fulfil the righteousness of god ; and so ( with the ceremonial law ) it was given in subservienty to the gospel , as a schoolmaster to bring sinners to christ. of the new and second covenant . xxxi . we believe the covenant of grace was primarily made with the second adam , and in him with all the elect , who as god-man , or mediator , was set up from everlasting as a common person , or as their head and representative ; who freely obliged or ingaged himself to the father for them , perfectly to keep the whole law in their nature that had sinned , and to satisfy divine justice by bearing their sins upon his own body , i. e. the guilt of all their sins , which were laid upon him : and that he sustain'd that wrath and curse in his body and soul , that was due to them for all their transgressions : and having received their discharge from wrath and condemnation , he gives it out to all that believe in him , and obtain union with him , who are thereby brought actually into the said new covenant , and have a personal right to all the blessings thereof . of election . xxxii . we do believe that god from all eternity , according unto the most wise and holy counsel of his own will , freely and unchangeably decreed and ordained , for the manifestation of his own glory , some angels , and some of the lost sons and daughters of adam , unto eternal life ; and that their number is so certain and definite , that it cannot be either increased or diminished : and that others are left or passed by under a decree of preterition . and that those of mankind that are predestinated and fore-ordained , are particularly and personally design'd unto eternal life : and these god , according to his eternal and immutable purpose , and good pleasure of his will , did chuse in christ ( the head of this election ) unto everlasting glory , of his meer free grace , without any foreseen faith or obedience and perseverance therein , or any thing in the creature as a condition or cause moving him thereunto ; and all this only to the praise of his own glorious grace . of final perseverance . xxxiii . we believe all those whom god hath chosen , and who are effectually called , justified , and sanctified in jesus christ , can neither totally , nor finally fall away from a state of grace ; but shall certainly persevere therein unto the end , and eternally be saved ; and this by virtue of their election , or the immutable decree of god , and the unchangeable love of god the father ; and by virtue of their union with christ , together with his death , resurrection , and intercession ; as also from the nature of the covenant of grace , and suretyship of christ ; and through the indwelling of the holy spirit , who abideth in them for ever . of the resurrection . xxxiv . we believe that the bodies of all men , both the just and vnjust , shall rise again at the last day , even the same numerical bodies that die ; tho the bodies of the saints shall be raised immortal and incorruptible , and be made like christ's glorious body : and that the dead in christ shall rise first . of eternal judgment . xxxv . we believe that god hath appointed a day in which he will judg the world in righteousness by jesus christ , or that there shall be a general day of judgment , when all shall stand before the judgment-seat of christ , and give an account to him for all things done in this body : and that he will pass an eternal sentence upon all , according as their works shall be . of marriages . xxxvi . we believe marriage is god's holy ordinance , that is to say between one man and one woman : and that no man ought to have more than one wife at once : and that believers that marry , should marry in the lord , or such that are believers , or godly persons ; and that those who do otherwise , sin greatly , in violating god's holy precept : and that ministers as well as others may marry ; for marriage is honourable in all . of civil magistrates . xxxvii . we do believe the supream ▪ lord of heaven and earth hath ordained magistrates for the good of mankind : and that it is our duty in all civil and lawful things to obey them for conscience sake ; nay , and to pray for all that are in authority , that under them we may live a godly and peaceable life : and that we ought to render unto cesar the things that are cesar's , and to god the things that are god's . of lawful oaths . xxxviii . we do believe it is lawful to take some oaths before the civil magistrate ; an oath of confirmation being to put an end to all strife : nay , and that it is our duty so to do when lawfully called thereunto : and that those that swear , ought to swear in truth , in righteousness , and in judgment . of personal propriety . xxxix . we do believe that every man hath a just and peculiar right and propriety in his own goods , and that they are not common to others ; yet we believe that every man is obliged to administer to the poor saints , and to the publick interest of god , according to his ability , or as god hath blessed him . finis . postscript . there is something contained in the 13 th article that may seem to want some explication , in these words ( speaking of a man actually and personally justified ) that his sins past , present , and to come , are all forgiven : we believing that if any sins of a justified person were afterwards charged upon him , it must of necessity make a breach in his unalterable and everlasting justification , which is but one act in god ; hence there is no condemnation to them which are in christ jesus : yet i find an able and worthy writer distinguisheth pardon of sin thus , viz. 1. fundamentally in christ , as a common person of all the elect before faith , which lieth in christ making full satisfaction for all their sins , meriting faith for them , &c. 2. actual , of all the elect in christ on believing ; this actual pardon being nothing else but the actual possession in their own persons of their fundamental pardon in the person of christ : and dr. tho. goodwin speaks to the same purpose , to which i agree . and that this actual pardon of the legal guilt is twofold . 1. formal , of all their sins past , removing their legal guilt . 2. virtual , of all their sins to come , preventing their legal guilt . dr. ames speaks to the same purpose , and many others . i cannot see how a believer should be for ever formally justified from all sins past , present , and to come , and yet not formally pardoned . this author which i have lately met with , distinguisheth well between legal guilt and gospel guilt ; the first obliging to divine wrath , or eternal punishment ; the latter , i. e. gospel guilt , obliging to gospel , or fatherly chastisement for gospel-sins . now i see not but that as soon as a believer is personally justified , all his sins , tho not yet committed , as to legal guilt , or vindictive wrath , i. e. that guilt that obliges to eternal condemnation , are pardoned , for the reason before . saith he , virtual pardon : keeps off legal guilt where it would be . to which i reply , if it be kept-off , so that it never comes upon believers , then it follows they were actually pardon'd before in that respect : yet he says , sins cannot be said to be formally pardon'd before formally committed ; but says , no guilt can come upon them to condemnation , tho new guilt ; yet no new legal guilt , because always justified . we see no hurt if his terms be admitted . object . what do believers then pray for , when they pray for the pardon of sin ? answ. 1. that god would not chastise them sorely , or afflict them as a father , according to the greatness of their offences . 2. that if his chastning hand is upon us , he would be pleased graciously to remove it . 3. that he would be pleased to clear up to our consciences , or give us the evidence of our pardon through christ's merits , and that we may know we are compleat in christ , or without spot before the throne in our free justification . 4. nay , believers are to pray to god to remove that sin from them ( saith this worthy author ) whose desert of punishment cannot be removed from it ; and to spread their sins before the lord in the highest sense of the deepest demerit of all legal punishment , so that they may put the higher accent upon the free grace of god , and estimate upon the full satisfaction of christ , whereby their persons are so fully freed from all actual obligation to any legal punishment , the whole and utmost whereof their sins deserve . 5. moreover , that god would continue , and never revoke his most gracious pardon , till he pronounceth the final sentence of it at the day of judgment , ( as well this author notes ) for a renewed sense and assurance of its grant and continuance : and thus to pray , saith he , there are both precepts and promises . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a47381-e1420 joh. 4.24 . job 11.7 , 8 , 9. psal. 90.2 . jam. 1.17 . exod. 3.4 . rev. 4.8 . deut. 6.4 . exod. 34.6 , 7. mat. 28.19 . 1 joh. 5.5 . eph. 1.4 , 11. rom. 9.22 , 23. gen. 1. heb. 11.3 . gen. 1.26 , 27 , 28. col. 3.10 . eph. 4.24 . 2 tim. 3.16 . eph. 2.20 . joh. 5.39 . deut. 17.18 . rev. 1.3 . acts 8.30 . gen. 1. & 3.15 , 16. job . 20.30 , 31. & 21.24 . gen. 3.5 , 6. eccl. 7.29 . rom. 3.23 . 1 joh. 3.4 . tit. 1.13 . rom. 5.17 . gen. 6.5 . jer. 17.9 . rom. 3.10 , 11 , 12 , 13 , 14 , &c. jam. 1.14 . 1 cor. 15.14 . rom. 5.6 . rom. 8.7 . col. 1.22 . mat. 15.19 . rom. 7.7 , 14 , 17 , 18 , 23 , 24. lam. 3.39 . rom. 6.23 . gal. 3.10 . job 11.12 . & 15.14 . & 25.4 . col. 3.10 . tit. 1.13 . psal. 51.5 . eph. 2.2 , 3. gen. 6.5 . rom. 7.5 , 14 , 15 , 16 , 17 , 23 , 24. ephes. 2.2 , 3. rom. 8.7 . job 24.13 . ephes. 4.28 . col. 1.21 . psal. 110.3 . rom. 7.11 , 17 , 18 , 23 , 24. ephes. 1.4 . rom. 3.20 , 21 , 22. gal. 3.21 , 22. 1 tim. 2.5 , 6. joh. 1.14 . galat. 4.4 . rom. 9.5 . luke 1.35 . col. 2.9 . heb. 7.24 , 25. phil. 2.6 . zech. 6.13 . joh. 1.14 . 1 tim. 2.5 . heb. 2.14 . mat. 2.26 , 38. luke 1.27 , 31 , 34 , 3● . gal. 〈…〉 . heb. 〈…〉 . 1 tim. 2.5 . heb. 2.17 . heb. 7.24 . act. 15.14 , 15 , 16. 1 joh. 2.2 . heb. 7.25 . & 10.21 . & 9.24 . isa. 33.22 . & 32.1 , 2. 1 cor. 15.25 . psal. 100. acts 3.22 . joh. 1.18 . 1 pet. 1.10 , 11 , 12. joh. 15.15 . & 20.31 . gal. 4.4 . heb. 12.23 . isa. 53.2 , 3. luk. 22.44 . mat. 27.46 phil. 2.8 . 1 cor. 15.4 . acts 2.24 , 25 , 26 , 27 , 31. 1 cor. 15.4 . mark 16.19 . eph. 1.20 . acts 1.11 . & 17.31 . 1 pet. 3.22 . joh. 1.11 . tit. 3.5 , 6. eph. 1.13 , 14. 1 cor. 1.9 . eph. 2.8 . eph. 3.17 . 1 cor. 1.9 . 2 tim. 1.9 . 2 thess. 2.13 , 14. acts 2.37 . & 20.18 . ezek. 36.27 . john 6.44 , 45. rom. 3.23 , 24 , 25 , 26. eph. 1.6 , 7. tit. 3.7 . rom. 5.15 , 16 , 17 , 18. 1 cor. 1.30 . 2 cor. 5.21 act. 13.39 . 2 cor. 5.21 . phil. 3.7 , 8 , 9. rom. 10.5 . 1 john 3.1 . john 1.10 . rom. 8.14 . gal. 2.16 . 1 john 3.1 , 2. & 4.7 . & 5.1 . 2 thess. 2.13 . eph. 4.13 . rom. 6.5 , ● 7. rom. 8.29 , 30. rom. 5.1 , 2 , 5. & 14.17 . prov. 4 18. joh. 51.3 . 1 pet. 1.5 . 1 cor. 15.43 . mat. 25.23 mat. 10.32 1 joh. 3.2 . 1 cor. 13.12 . 1 thess. 4.17 , 18. 2 cor. 5.1 , 2 phil. 1.21.22 . luk 16 ●5 1 pet. 3.19 , 20. luke 16.23 , 24. acts 1.25 . 1 pet. 3.19 ps. 49.11 . john 9.28 , 29. 2 thess. 1.8 , 9. mich. 6.8 . 1 sam. 15.22 . rev. 2.14 . mat. 19.17 mat. 22.37 , 38 , 39 , 40. 1 joh. 3.4 . rom. 7.3 , 4 gen. 6.5 . rom. 3.9 , 10 , 11 , 12 , &c. ezek. 8.6 . 1 joh. 5.16 ps 78.17 , 32 , 56. exod. 34.6 rom. 3.25 , 26. gal. 4.4 . isa. 53.4 , 5 , 6 , 10 , 11. 1 pet. 2.24 . rom. 8.1 . john 5.24 . john 3.15 , 16. heb. 6.18 , 19 , 20. col. 2.12 . acts 15.9 . acts 2.36 . job 42.5 . 1 pet. 2.7 . john 3.3 . john 1.12 . isa. 26.3 , 4. phil. 3.9 . ephes. 2.8 . acts 2.37 . joh 2.12 . jer. 3.22 . & 31.18 , 19. ezek. 36.31 . 2 cor. 7.10 . isa. 1.16 , 17 heb. 6.1 , 2. zic . 12.10 . acts 2.36 . mat. 28.19 , 20. acts 2.42 , 46 , 47. neh. 8.8 . 1 cor. 14.24 , 25. acts 26.32 psal. 19.8 . rom. 1.15 , 16. acts 20.32 rom. 10.13 , 14 , 15 , 16 , 17. prov. 8.34 . 1 pet. 2.1 , 2. ps. 119.18 heb. 4.2 . 2 thess. 2.10 . jam. 1.25 . 1 pet. 3.21 1 cor. 12.13 . mat. 28.19 , 20. rom. 6.3 , 4 , 5. col. 2.12 , 13. gal. 3.27 . acts 2.38 . & 22.16 . acts 8.37 . col. 2.21 , 22. rev. 22.18 prov. 30.6 . mat. 28.19 , 20. mat. 3.16 . joh. 3.23 . acts 8.38 . rom. 6.3 . col. 2.13 . acts 2.41 , 42. & 5.13 , 14. 1 pet. 2.5 . luke 1.6 . acts 2.40 , 41 , 42. eph. 4.3 . acts 2.40 , 41 , 42 , 43 , 44 , 45 , 46 , &c. 1 cor. 16.1 , 2. heb. 10.25 . heb. 5.12 . & 6 , 1 , 2. acts 8. & 19.6 . eph. 1.13 , 14. acts 8. & 19. heb. 2.3 , 4. mat. 26.26 , 27 , 28. mark 14.21 , 22 , 23. luke 22.19 , 20. 1 cor. 11.23 , 24 , 25 , 26 , 27. acts 20.17 . 1 tim. 3.1 , 2 , &c. tit. 1.5 . 1 tim. 3.2 — 12. tit. 1.5 , 6 , 7 , 8. acts 13.3 . 1 tim. 5.22 . & 4.14 . phil. 4.6 . psal. 65.2 . 1 john 4.23 . 1 pet. 2.5 . rom. 8.26 . john 5.14 . psal. 47.7 . eccl. 5.1 , 2. jam. 5.16 . eph. 6.18 . 1 cor. 14.14 . col. 4.2 . josh. 24.15 . gen. 18.19 . jer. 10.25 . eph. 5.19 . col. 3.16 . acts 16.25 heb. 2.12 . jam. 5.13 . mat. 26.30 mar. 14.26 exod. 20. rev. 1.10 . act. 2.1 , 2. acts 20.7 . 1 cor. 16.2 1 tim. 3.2 . eph. 4.11 . 1 pet. 4.10 rom. 12.6 , 7. 1 cor. 9.9 — 14. rom. 15.27 . gal. 6.6 . 1 tim. 5.15 . 1 pet. 5.2 . gen. 2.17 . rom. 3.12 . rom. 10.5 . & 5.10 to 30. rom. 3.19 , 20. 2 cor. 3.9 , 11. rom. 7.7 , 8 , 9 , 10 , 11 , 12 , 13. gal. 3 10. zech. 6.13 . rom. 3.23 , 24 , 25 , 26. isa. 57.5 , 6 , 10 , 11. rom. 8.3 . heb. 9.15 , 16 , 17. heb. 7. ● luk. 2● 1 cor. 11. ● rom. 6.2 . & 8.16 , 17 , 1● . rom. 8.29 , 30 , 31. acts 13.48 . rom. 9.11 . 1 thess. 4.4 , 5. eph. 1.3 , 4 , 11. ● thess. 2.13 . rom. 8.28 , 29 , 30 , 31. joh. 10.28 , 29. rom. 8.38 , 39 ▪ rom. 8 . 3● ▪ 33 , 3● 2 tim. 2. ● 2 cor. 6.17 . acts 17.31 . 2 cor. 5.10 . eccles. 12. gen. 3.24 . mat. 19.5 . 1 cor. 6.16 . eph. 5.31 . rom. 7.4 . heb. 13.4 . rom. 13.1 , 2 , 3. tit. 3.1 . 1 pet. 2.13 . mat. 22.21 . exod. 20.7 . jer. 4.2 . gen. 24.2 . neh. 5.12 . heb. 6.16 , 17. exod. 20.17 . acts 5.4 . & 20.33 . notes for div a47381-e8130 rom. 8.1 . mr. tho. gilbert . dr. ames saith , that not only the sins of a justif●●● person that are past are remitted , but also in some sort these to come , num. 23.25 . joh. 5.24 . yet he distinguishes between a formal and virtual pardon : sins past , says he , are remitted to themselves , sins to come , in the subject or person sinning . a short confession of faith containing the substance of all the fundamental articles in the larger confession put forth by the elders of the baptist churches, owning personal election and final perserverance. keach, benjamin, 1640-1704. 1697 approx. 52 kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from 26 1-bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : 2005-12 (eebo-tcp phase 1). a47606 wing k86 estc r24038 07944288 ocm 07944288 40608 this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons 0 1.0 universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase 1, no. a47606) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set 40608) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, 1641-1700 ; 1209:2) a short confession of faith containing the substance of all the fundamental articles in the larger confession put forth by the elders of the baptist churches, owning personal election and final perserverance. keach, benjamin, 1640-1704. [7], 40 p. [s.n., london : 1697?] dedicatory signed: b. keach. reproduction of original in the union theological seminary library, new york. created by converting tcp files to tei p5 using tcp2tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between 1473 and 1700 available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the 25,363 texts created during phase 1 of the project have been released into the public domain as of 1 january 2015. anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. 5% (or 5 pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of 100 instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level 4 of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p5, characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng baptists -doctrines. 2005-05 tcp assigned for keying and markup 2005-06 apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images 2005-07 haley pierson sampled and proofread 2005-07 haley pierson text and markup reviewed and edited 2005-10 pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion confession of faith containing the substance of all the fundamental articles in the larger confession , put for t 〈…〉 the elders of the bapti 〈…〉 churches , owning personal electio 〈…〉 final perseverance . acts 24. 14. after the way 〈…〉 heresy , so worship we the go 〈…〉 ther 's , believing all things wh 〈…〉 in the law and the prophets 〈…〉 london ▪ printed in the 〈…〉 the articles of the faith of the. church of christ , or congregation meeting at horsley-down , benjamin keach , pastor , as asserted this 10th of the 6th month , 1697. london ; printed in the year 1697. to the congregation with whom i am a member ( and the unworthy overseer ) who are in god the father , and in our lord jesus christ ; grace mercy and peace be multiplied . most dear and beloved in christ : i hope i can say ( with the holy apostle ) that you are by me dearly beloved , my joy , and my crown ; yea you are my honour , and in you i would rejoice , being the ornament of my poor ministry , by which the most of you have ( through the blessing of god ) been converted to jesus christ : and if you stand fast in the faith in one spirit , striving together for the faith of the gospel , and do adorn your profession , living in love , and endeavouring to keep the unity of the spirit in the bond of peace , you will cause my latter days to be most sweet and comfortable to me , after all those troubles , sorrows , and reproaches i have met with , both from within and from without . evident it is god hath most eminently appeared to strengthen your hands : tho the archers have sorely grieved you , and shot at you , yet your bow abideth in strength ; and that the arms of your hands may still abide strong by the arm of the mighty god of jacob , shall be my continual prayers . my brethren , i here present you with that which you have so long waited for , and desired me to endeavour to do , viz. to state an account of the most concerning articles of your faith , which you have heard read , and have approved of , and which i thought good no longer to delay the doing of . ( 1. ) not knowing how soon i may put off this tabernacle , and therefore would leave behind me an account of that holy doctrine and order , in which through grace you are established ( for at your desire also i have drawn up the whole rules of your holy discipline , which you may have added unto this , and bound up together ) . ( 2. ) and the rather i have done this , because the general and more large confession of the faith of our churches , is now out of print ; but that is not all , for that being 12 d. price , some cannot well purchase it . ( 3. ) and also that all men may see what our faith is , and that we differ not from our brethren who bear other names in any fundamental point or article of faith ; and that they may discern the difference between you and some that bear the same name with you . ( 4. ) tho you agree in the general with all other churches of the same faith , in all those articles there inserted , yet therein your whole faith is not comprehended , viz. that of imposition of hands upon baptized believers as such , and singing of god's praise , &c. because some of our churches dissent from us therein : yet my desire is you would nevertheless shew all tenderness , charity and moderation to such as differ from you in those cases , and not refuse communion with them ; and indeed your late sweet temper appears to be such , that i need not press you to this . all that i shall say more , is to entreat you to labour after holiness , and to awake out of sleep , that you may adorn your sacred profession , and prepare to meet the lord ; that as you have a good doctrine , you may also have a holy and good conversation ; and then we need not fear who can harm us , whilst we are followers of that which is good , o let us bear one with another . and if in any thing we differ , let us avoid all animosities . brethren , great things are near , watch and pray , look out and be ready . but at present i shall conclude with the words of the apostle , finally , brethren , farewel ; be perfect , be of good comfort , be of one mind , live in peace , and the god of love and peace shall be with you . so prays your unworthy brother , pastor , overseer , and servant , who earnestly desires your prayers also , from my house in freemans-lane by horsley-down , southwark . aug. 16. 1697. b. keach . that the following articles contain what the foresaid church believes concerning those truths asserted therein , we whose names are hereunto subscribed , do testify in the name and by the appointment of the whole congregation , the 10th day of the 6th month , commonly called august , 1697. benjamin keach , pastor . benjamin stinton , teacher . john roberts , edward foley , joshua farrow , tho. stinton , john valley , isaac ballard , deacons . john hoar , sen . edward newbury , tho. turner , john seamor , ephraim wilcocks , james wilmott , daniel dines , richard thoubals , john weston , john clark , tho. ayers , john york , george starkey , sen . benj. harris , george starkey , jun. john beavis , tho. hill , joseph berry , william farmworth , joseph jennings , john fowle , sen . tho. fowle , john fowle , jun. henry skeer , john greensmith , jeremiah lions , william putman , nath. holden , william cattrel , tho. harvey , tho. richford , joseph worley , peter carter , william forister , sam. cox. john sparke , james king , william deale , simon agars , john hoar , jun. tho. gunning , william mais . the articles of faith of the church of christ meeting at horsley-down . of god , and of the holy trinity . i. we do believe , declare and testify , that there is but one only living and true god , who is a spirit infinite , eternal , immense and unchangeable in his being , wisdom , power , holiness , justice , goodness , truth and faithfulness . ii. that there are three persons in the godhead , the father , the son , and holy spirit ; and that these three are one god , the same in essence , equal in power and glory . of the decrees of god. iii. that the decrees of god are his eternal purpose according to the counsel of his will , whereby for his own glory he hath foreordained whatsoever comes to pass , even those evils that his wisdom and justice permits for the manifestation of the glory of those his attributes : and that god executes his decrees in the works of creation and providence . of creation . iv. that the works of creation are god's creating all things of nothing by his word of power , in six days , and all very good . that god created man male and female , after his own image , in knowledg , righteousness , and holiness , with power and dominion over the creatures . of god's providence . v. we believe that god's works of providence are his most holy , wise , and powerful preserving , and governing all his creatures , and their actions . of the holy scriptures . vi. we believe the holy scriptures of the old and new testament are the word of god , and are the only rule of faith , and practice ; all things being contained therein that are necessary for us to know concerning god , and our duty unto him , and also unto all men. that all persons ought to read , hear , and understand the holy scriptures . that the light of nature , and works of providence , tho they declare plainly there is a god , yet not so effectually as the holy scriptures ; nor can we know without them how , and in what space of time god created all things . neither came we any other ways but by the holy scriptures to the knowledg of christ the blessed mediator ; which indeed none can savingly know but by the word and spirit of god. of original sin. vii . we do believe , that god having created man , he entered into a covenant of life with him , upon the condition of perfect obedience ; making the first adam a common head to all his seed : and that our first parents being left to the freedom of their own will , fell from the estate wherein they were created , by eating of the forbidden fruit : and that adam being set up as a publick person , we all sinned in him , and fell with him into a state of sin , of wrath and misery ; the sinfulness of which state consists in the guilt of adam's first sin , the want of original righteousness , and the corruption of our whole nature : from whence all actual sins proceed , as water out of a filthy and an unclean fountain . so that not only by imputation all men became sinners in the first adam , but also as the same corrupt nature is conveyed to all his posterity , who descend from him in ordinary generation . by this sin all mankind lost the image of god , and communion with him , being liable to all the miseries of this life , and to death it self ; and also are dead in sins and trespasses , and obnoxious to the wrath of god , and the eternal pains of hell for ever . hence we say that all are conceiv'd and born in sin , and are the children of wrath , even the elect as well as others , being wholly defiled in all the faculties and parts of soul and body , and utterly indisposed and disabled to do any thing that is spiritually good , and wholly inclined with a strong propensity to all things that are evil . of man's free-will . viii . we believe man in his state of innocency had freedom of will to do good ; but by the fall he hath utterly lost all that power and ability , being wofully depraved in all the faculties of his soul ; there being in the will and mind of all naturally much enmity against god , and a total aversion to him , and to every thing that is spiritually good ; loving darkness , and rebelling against the light. but when a man is renewed by divine grace , tho there is no force put upon the will , yet it is made willing , and acts freely , in the day of god's power : tho the work is not perfect in any faculty in the regenerate , nor will be in this life . of christ the mediator . ix . we believe that god having , out of his own meer good pleasure , and infinite ▪ love , elected some persons of the lost seed of the first adam unto everlasting life , from all eternity , did enter into a covenant of grace with the second person of the trinity , ( who was set up as the common head of all the elect ) to deliver them out of the state of sin and misery , and to bring them into a state of salvation and eternal happiness . that the second person in the godhead , ( being the eternal son of god , coessential , and coequal with the father ) according to that holy covenant and compact that was between them both , became man , or assumed our nature , and so was , and continueth to be god and man in two distinct natures , in one person for ever . and that he the son of god by his becoming man , did take unto him a true body , and reasonable soul , being conceived by the holy spirit in the womb of the virgin , and was born of her , yet without sin. of the offices of christ . x. we believe that the lord jesus christ , who is our redeemer , and the one blessed mediator between god and man , executeth a threefold office , both the office of a priest , the office of a king , and the office of a prophet . first , that he executeth the office of a priest , ( 1. ) in his once offering up himself a sacrifice , to satisfy divine justice , and to reconcile god to us , and us to god. ( 2. ) and in making continual intercession for us , that the merits of his blood may be made effectual unto us . secondly , that he executeth the office of a king in subduing us unto himself , and in giving us laws and holy precepts , by which we ought to walk ; and also in his restraining and conquering all his , and our enemies . thirdly , that he executeth the office of a prophet , in revealing to us by his word and spirit , the whole will of god concerning all things that appertain to faith and practice . of christ's humiliation and exaltation . xi . we believe that christ's humiliation consisted in that great condescension of his in assuming our nature , and being born in a low condition , made under the law , undergoing the many miseries of this life , the wrath of god , the curse of the law , and the ignominious death of the cross , continuing under death for a time . and that his exaltation consisteth in his rising again from the dead the third day , and in his ascending up into heaven , in sitting at the right-hand of ▪ god ; angels , powers , and principalities being made subject unto him ; and in his being made judg of the quick and dead . of effectual calling . xii . we do believe that we are made partakers of the redemption purchased by christ , by the effectual application of his merits , &c. unto us by the holy spirit , thereby uniting us to christ in effectual calling : and that effectual calling is the work of god's free grace , who by his spirit works faith in us , who are altogether passive therein ; and convincing us of sin and misery , enlightning our minds in the knowledg of christ , and renewing our wills , and changing our whole hearts , he doth perswade and enable us to imbrace jesus christ freely , as he is offered in the gospel . of justification . xiii . we do believe justification is a free act of god's grace , through that redemption which is in christ , ( who , as our head , was acquitted , justified , and discharged , and we in him , when he rose from the dead ) and when applied to us , we in our own persons are actually justified , in being made and pronounced righteous , through the righteousness of christ imputed to us ; and all our sins , past , present , and to come , for ever pardon'd ; which is receiv'd by faith alone . and that our sanctification , nor faith it self , is any part of our justification before god ; it not being either the habit , or act of believing , or any act of evangelical obedience imputed to us , but christ , and his active and passive obedience only , apprehended by faith : and that faith in no sense tends to make christ's merits more satisfactory unto god ; but that he was as fully reconciled and satisfied for his elect in christ by his death before faith as after ; otherwise it would render god only reconcileable , ( not reconciled ) and make faith part of the payment or satisfaction unto god , and so lessen the merits of christ , as if they were defective or insufficient . yet we say , it is by faith that we receive the atonement , or by which means ( as an instrument ) we come to apprehend and receive him , and to have personal interest in him , and to have our free justification evidenced to our own consciences . of adoption . xiv . we believe adoption is an act of god's free grace , whereby such who were the children of wrath by nature , are received into the number , and have right to all the privileges of the sons of god ; and that such who are adopted , are also by the spirit regenerated , and hence said to be born of god. of sanctification . xv. that sanctification is the work of god's free grace also , whereby we are renewed in the whole man after the image of god , and are inabled more and more to die unto sin , and live unto righteousness . and that the benefits we receive , and which flow from or accompany justification , are adoption , sanctification , peace of conscience , manifestations of god's love , joy in the holy ghost , an increase of grace , an assurance of eternal life , and final perseverance unto the end . of the souls of men at death . xvi . we believe , that at death the souls of believers are made perfect in holiness , and do immediately pass into glory ; and their bodies dying in union with christ , or dying in the lord , do rest in their graves till the resurrection , when they shall be raised up in glory . and that their souls being reunited to their bodies , they shall be openly acknowledged , and acquitted , and made compleatly blessed , both in soul and body , and shall have the full injoyment of god to all eternity . and that the souls of the wicked at their death are cast into hell , or are in torment : and that their bodies lie in the grave under wrath , and shall by virtue of the power of christ be raised from the dead ; and their souls being re-united to their bodies , shall be judged and condemned , and cast into a furnace of fire , or into unspeakable torment , with the devil and his angels , for ever and ever . of the law. xvii . we believe god requires obedience of man , and that the rule of that obedience is the moral law as it is in the hands of christ ; which teacheth all persons their duty to god , and to man ; the sum of all being this , to love the lord our god with all our hearts , with all our souls , and with all our strength , and our neighbours as our selves . and that tho the law is abolished as a covenant of works , and as so considered , we are dead to it , and that dead to us ; yet it remains as a rule of life and righteousness for ever . xviii . we believe no mere man , since the fall , is able in this life perfectly to keep the holy law of god ; and that every offence against the law deserves eternal death , tho some sins are more heinous in god's sight than others . and that god , as a simple act of mercy , will not , doth not , pardon any man ; neither doth it seem consistent with his holiness and justice so to do , without a full satisfaction : wherefore he substituted christ in our room and stead , perfectly to keep the whole law , and to die , or bear that wrath which we deserved for our breaking of it ; he being pleased in his infinite love and grace to transfer our sins , guilt and punishment , upon his own son , ( who took our nature upon him , as our blessed head and representative ) that his active obedience and righteousness might be our just title unto eternal life ; and his death ( who bore our hell-torments ) be our full discharge from the wrath of god , and eternal condemnation . and that all who would receive this title , and have this discharge so as to escape god's wrath , and the curse of the law , must fly to christ , and lay hold on him by faith ; which faith is known by its fruits , having lively , sin-killing , soul-humbling , self-abasing , christ-exalting , and heart-purifying operations , always attending it . of faith and repentance . xix . we believe that faith is a saving grace , or the most precious gift of god ; and that it is an instrument whereby we receive , take hold of , and wholly rest upon jesus christ , as offered to us in the gospel . that repentance unto life is also a saving grace , whereby a sinner , out of a true sense of sin , and apprehension of god's mercy in christ , doth with grief and hatred of his sins , turn from them . and that tho repentance is in order of nature called the first principle of the doctrine of christ , yet we believe no man can savingly repent , unless he believes in jesus christ , and apprehends the free pardon and forgiveness of all his sins through the blood of the everlasting covenant , and the sight and sense of god's love in a bleeding saviour ; being that only thing that melts and breaks the stony heart of a poor sinner , as the sight of a free pardon from a prince humbles the stout heart of a rebellious malefactor . of the means of grace . xx. we believe that the outward and more ordinary means , whereby christ communicates to us the benefits of redemption , are his holy ordinances , as prayer , the word of god , and preaching , with baptism , and the lord's supper , &c. and yet notwithstanding it is the spirit of god that maketh prayer , reading , &c. and specially the preaching of the word , effectual to the convincing , converting , building up , and comforting , through faith , all the elect of god unto salvation . and that it is the duty of all , that the word may become effectual to their salvation , to attend upon it with all diligence , preparation , and prayer , that they may receive it with faith and love , and lay it up in their hearts , and practise it in their lives . of baptism . xxi . we believe that baptism is a holy ordinance of christ , or a pure gospel-institution ; and to be unto the party baptized , a sign of his fellowship with christ in his death , burial , and resurrection , and of his being grafted into him , and of remission of sins , and of his giving himself up to god , through jesus christ , to walk in newness of life . we also believe that baptism ought not to be administred to any but to those who actually profess repentance towards god , and faith towards our lord jesus christ . that the infants of believers ought not to be baptized , because there is neither precept , or example , or any certain consequence in the holy scripture for any such practice : and we ought not to be wise above what is written . and that a human tradition or custom ought not to be regarded , but that it is sinful , and abominable . we believe also that baptism is only rightly administred by immersion , or dipping the whole body in water , into the name of the father , and of the son , and of the holy spirit ; according to christ's institution , and the practice of the apostles ; and not by sprinkling , or pouring of water , or dipping some part of the body in water , after the tradition of men. and that it is the indispensible duty of such who are baptized , to give up themselves to some particular orderly church of jesus christ , and to walk in all the commandments and ordinances of the lord blameless : baptism being an initiating ordinance . of a true church . xxii . we believe a true church of christ is not national , nor parochial , but doth consist of a number of godly persons , who upon the profession of their faith and repentance have been baptized , and in a solemn manner have in a holy covenant given themselves up to the lord , and to one another , to live in love , and to endeavour to keep the unity of the spirit in the bond of peace : among whom the word of god is duly and truly preach'd ; and holy baptism , the lord's supper , and all other ordinances are duly administred , according to the word of god , and the institution of christ in the primitive church : watching over one another , and communicating to each other's necessities , as becometh saints ; living holy lives , as becomes their sacred profession ; and not to forsake the assembling themselves , as the manner of some is ; or to take leave to hear where they please in other places when the church is assembled , but to worship god , and feed in that pasture , or with that church , with whom they have covenanted , and given up themselves as particular members thereof . of laying on of hands . xxiii . we believe that laying on of hands ( with prayer ) upon baptized believers , as such , is an ordinance of christ , and ought to be submitted unto by all such persons that are admitted to partake of the lord's supper ; and that the end of this ordinance is not for the extraordinary gifts of the spirit , but for a farther reception of the holy spirit of promise , or for the addition of the graces of the spirit , and the influences thereof ; to confirm , strengthen , and comfort them in christ jesus ; it being ratified and established by the extraordinary gifts of the spirit in the primitive times , to abide in the church , as meeting together on the first day of the week was , act. 2. 1. that being the day of worship , or christian sabbath , under the gospel ; and as preaching the word was , acts 10. 44. and as baptism was , mat. 3. 16. and prayer was , acts 4. 31. and singing psalms , &c. was , acts 16. 25 , 26. so this of laying on of hands was , acts 8. & ch . 19. for as the whole gospel was confirmed by signs and wonders , and divers miracles and gifts of the holy ghost in general , so was every ordinance in like manner confirmed in particular . of the lord's supper . xxiv . we believe that the holy ordinance of the lord's supper , which he instituted the night before he was betrayed , ought to be observed to the end of the world ; and that it consisteth only in breaking of bread , and drinking of wine , in remembrance of christ's death ; it being appointed for our spiritual nourishment , and growth in grace , and as a farther engagement in , and to all duties we owe to jesus christ , and as a pledg of his eternal love to us , and as a token of our communion with him , and one with another . and that due preparation and examination is required of all that ought to partake thereof ; and that it cannot be neglected by any approved and orderly member without sin. of church-officers . xxv . we do believe that every particular church of christ is independent ; and that no one church hath any priority or super-intendency above or over another : and that every church ought to be organical : that an elder , or elders , a deacon , or deacons , ought to be elected in every congregation , according to those holy qualifications laid down in the word of god : and that the said elders and deacons so chosen , ought solemnly to be ordained with prayer , and laying on of hands of the eldership . that such churches as have not officers so ordained , are disorderly , there being something still wanting . of prayer . xxvi . we believe prayer is a holy ordinance of god , and that it ought to be performed by the help and assistance of the holy spirit ; and that not only the prayer christ taught his disciples , but the whole word of god is to be our rule how to pray , and pour forth our souls unto god : and that it is the indispensible duty of all godly families ( and others also ) as well as private christians , daily to pray for all things they need , and to give thanks every day for all good things they receive : and that the omission of this duty is a great scandal to religion , and a great evil when it is carelesly or negligently performed . of singing of psalms , &c. xxvii . we believe that singing the praises of god , is a holy ordinance of christ , and not a part of natural religion , or a moral duty only ; but that it is brought under divine institution , it being injoined on the churches of christ to sing psalms , hymns , and spiritual songs ; and that the whole church in their publick assemblies ( as well as private christians ) ought to sing god's praises , according to the best light they have received . moreover , it was practised in the great representative church , by our lord jesus christ with his disciples , after he had instituted and celebrated the sacred ordinance of his holy supper , as a commemorative token of redeeming love. of the christian sabbath . xxviii . we believe that one day in seven , ought to be solemnly observed in the worship of god ; and that by moses's law the jews and proselyted strangers were to keep the seventh day : but from the resurrection of christ the first day of the week ought by all christians to be observed holy to the lord , that being called the lord's day ; and the first time the church met together after christ's ascension was on the day of pentecost , which was the first day of the week , as tradition hath handed it down : and on that day the church also met together to break bread , and make collections for the poor saints : and no mention is made that any one gospel-church kept the jewish sabbath in all the new testament . and we believe that an apostolical precedent is equivalent to an apostolical precept in this case . of ministers , and their maintenance . xxix . we do believe that every brother that hath received a gift to preach , having first pass'd the probation of the church , and being regularly called by the same , ought to exercise the said gift to the edification of the church when desired ; and that no brother ought to take upon him to preach , until he has a lawful call so to do . moreover , we believe that it is the indispensible duty of every church , according to their ability , to provide their pastor , or elders , a comfortable maintenance ; as god hath ordained , that he that preaches the gospel , should live of the gospel , and not of his own labour ; but that he should wholly give himself up to the work of the ministry , and to watch over the flock , being to be freed from all secular business , and encumbrances of the world : and yet that it is abominable evil for any man to preach the gospel for filthy lucre sake , but he must do it of a ready mind . of the first covenant . xxx . we believe that the first covenant , or covenant of works , was primarily made with adam , and with all mankind in him , by virtue of which he stood in a justified state before the fall , upon the condition of his own perfect and personal obedience . but by the fall he made himself uncapable of life by that covenant . that the law god gave by moses to israel , was of the same nature of that given to adam , being a second ministration of it ; but not given for life , but to make sin exceeding sinful , and to shew how unable man was in his fallen state to fulfil the righteousness of god ; and so ( with the ceremonial law ) it was given in subserviency to the gospel , as a schoolmaster to bring sinners to christ . of the new and second covenant . xxxi . we believe the covenant of grace was primarily made with the second adam , and in him with all the elect , who as god-man , or mediator , was set up from everlasting as a common person , or as their head and representative ; who freely obliged or ingaged himself to the father for them , perfectly to keep the whole law in their nature that had sinned , and to satisfy divine justice by bearing their sins upon his own body , i. e. the guilt of all their sins , which were laid upon him : and that he sustain'd that wrath and curse in his body and soul , that was due to them for all their transgrestions : and having received their discharge from wrath and condemnation , he gives it out to all that believe in him , and obtain union with him , who are thereby brought actually into the said new covenant , and have a personal right to all the blessings thereof . of election . xxxii . we do believe that god from all eternity , according unto the most wise and holy counsel of his own will , freely and unchangeably decreed and ordained , for the manifestation of his own glory , some angels , and some of the lost sons and daughters of adam , unto eternal life ; and that their number is so certain and definite , that it cannot be either increased or diminished : and that others are left or passed by under a decree of preterition . and that those of manking that are predestinated and fore-ordained , are particularly and personally design'd unto eternal life : and these god , according to his eternal and immutable purpose , and good pleasure of his will , did chuse in christ ( the head of this election ) unto everlasting glory , of his meer free grace , without any foreseen faith or obedience and perseverance therein , or any thing in the creature as a condition or cause moving him thereunto ; and all this only to the praise of his own glorious grace . of final perseverance . xxxiii . we believe all those whom god hath chosen , and who are effectually called , justified , and sanctified in jesus christ , can neither totally , nor finally fall away from a state of grace ; but shall certainly persevere therein unto the end , and eternally be saved ; and this by virtue of their election , or the immutable decree of god , and the unchangeable love of god the father ; and by virtue of their union with christ , together with his death , resurrection , and intercession ; as also from the nature of the covenant of grace , and suretyship of christ ; and through the indwelling of the holy spirit , who abideth in them for ever . of the resurrection . xxxiv . we believe that the bodies of all men , both the just and unjust , shall rise again at the last day , even the same numerical bodies that die ; tho the bodies of the saints shall be raised immortal and incorruptible , and be made like christ's glorious body : and that the dead in christ shall rise first . of eternal judgment . xxxv . we believe that god hath appointed a day in which he will judg the world in righteousness by jesus christ , or that there shall be a general day of judgment , when all shall stand before the judgment-seat of christ , and give an account to him for all things done in this body : and that he will pass an eternal sentence upon all , according as their works shall be . of marriages . xxxvi . we believe marriage is god's holy ordinance , that is to say between one man and one woman : and that no man ought to have more than one wife at once : and that believers that marry , should marry in the lord , or such that are believers , or godly persons ; and that those who do otherwise , sin greatly , in violating god's holy precept : and that ministers as well as others may marry ; for marriage is honourable in all . of civil magistrates . xxxvii . we do believe the supream lord of heaven and earth hath ordained magistrates for the good of mankind : and that it is our duty in all civil and lawful things to obey them for conscience sake ; nay , and to pray for all that are in authority , that under them we may live a godly and peaceable life : and that we ought to render unto cesar the things that are cesar's , and to god the things that are god's . of lawful oaths . xxxviii . we do believe it is lawful to take some oaths before the civil magistrate ; an oath of confirmation being to put an end to all strife : nay , and that it is our duty so to do when lawfully called thereunto : and that those that swear , ought to swear in truth , in righteousness , and in judgment . of personal propriety . xxxix . we do believe that every man hath a just and peculiar right and propriety in his own goods , and that they are not common to others ; yet we believe that every man is obliged to administer to the poor saints , and to the publick interest of god , according to his ability , or as god hath blessed him . finis . postscript . there is something contained in the 13th article that may seem to want some explication , in these words ( speaking of a man actually and personally justified ) that his sins past , present , and to come , are all forgiven : we believing that if any sins of a justified person were afterwards charged upon him , it must of necessity make a breach in his unalterable and everlasting justification , which is but one act in god ; hence there is no condemnation to them which are in christ jesus : yet i find an able and worthy writer distinguisheth pardon of sin thus , viz. 1. fundamentally in christ , as a common person of all the elect before faith , which lieth in christ making full satisfaction for all their sins , meriting faith for them , &c. 2. actual , of all the elect in christ on believing ; this actual pardon being nothing else but the actual possession in their own persons of their fundamental pardon in the person of christ : and dr. tho. goodwin speaks to the same purpose , to which i agree . and that this actual pardon of the legal guilt is twofold . 1. formal , of all their sins past , removing their legal guilt . 2. virtual , of all their sins to come , preventing their legal guilt . dr. ames speaks to the same purpose , and many others . i cannot see how a believer should be for ever formally justified from all sins past , present , and to come , and yet not formally pardoned . this author which i have lately met with , distinguisheth well between legal guilt and gospel guilt ; the first obliging to divine wrath , or eternal punishment ; the latter , i. e. gospel guilt , obliging to gospel , or fatherly chastisement for gospel-sins . now i see not but that as soon as a believer is personally justified , all his sins , tho not yet committed , as to legal guilt , or vindictive wrath , i. e. that guilt that obliges to eternal condemnation , are pardoned , for the reason before . saith he , virtual pardon keeps off legal guilt where it would be . to which i reply , if it be kept off , so that it never comes upon believers , then it follows they were actually pardon'd before in that respect : yet he says , sins cannot be said to be formally pardon'd before formally committed ; but says , no guilt can come upon them to condemnation , tho new guilt ; yet no new legal guilt , because always justified . we see no hurt if his terms be admitted . object . what do believers then pray for , when they pray for the pardon of sin ? answ . 1. that god would not chastise them sorely , or afflict them as a father , according to the greatness of their offences . 2. that if his chastning hand is upon us , he would be pleased graciously to remove it . 3. that he would be pleased to clear up to our consciences , or give us the evidence of our pardon through christ's merits , and that we may know we are compleat in christ , or without spot before the throne in our free justification . 4. nay , believers are to pray to god to remove that sin from them ( saith this worthy author ) whose desert of punishment cannot be removed from it ; and to spread their sins before the lord in the highest sense of the deepest demerit of all legal punishment , so that they may put the higher accent upon the free grace of god , and estimate upon the full satisfaction of christ , whereby their persons are so fully freed from all actual obligation to any legal punishment , the whole and utmost whereof their sins deserve . 5. moreover , that god would continue , and never revoke his most gracious pardon , till he pronounceth the final sentence of it at the day of judgment , ( as well this author notes ) for a renewed sense and assurance of its grant and continuance : and thus to pray , saith he , there are both precepts and promises . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a47606-e1080 joh. 4. 24. job 11. 7 , 8 , 9. psal . 90. 2. jam. 1. 17. exod. 3. 4. rev. 4. 8. deut. 6. 4. exod. 34. 6 , 7. mat. 28. 19. 1 joh. 5. 5. eph. 1. 4 , 11. rom. 9. 22 , 23. gen. 1. heb. 11. 3. gen. 1. 26 , 27 , 28. col. 3. 10. eph. 4. 24. 2 tim. 3. 16. eph. 2. 20. joh. 5. 39. deut. 17. 18. rev. 1. 3. acts 8. 30. gen. 1. & 3. 15 , 16. joh. 20. 30 , 31. & 21. 24. gen. 3. 〈◊〉 , 6. eccl. 7. 29. rom. 3. 23. 1 joh. 3. 4. tit. 1. 13. rom. 5. 17. gen. 6. 5. jer. 17. 9. rom. 3. 10 , 11 , 12 , 13 , 14 , &c. jam. 1. 14. 1 cor. 15. 14. rom. 5. 6. rom. 8. 7. col. 1. 22. mat. 15. 19. rom. 7. 7 , 14 , 17 , 18 , 23 , 24. lam. 3. 39. rom. 6. 23. gal. 3. 10. job 11. 12. & 15. 14. & 25. 4. col. 3. 10. tit. 1. 13. psal . 51. 5. eph. 2. 2 , 3. gen. 6. 3. rom. 7. 5 , 14 , 15 , 16 , 17 , 23 , 24. ephes . 2. 2 , 3. rom. 8. 7. job 24. 13. ephes . 4. 28. col. 1. 21. psal . 110. 3. rom. 7. 11 , 17 , 18 , 23 , 24. ephes . 1. 4. rom. 3. 20 , 21 , 22. gal. 3. 21 , 22. 1 tim. 2. 5 , 6. joh. 1. 14. galat. 4. 4. rom. 9. 5. luke 1. 35. col. 2. 9. heb. 7. 24 , 25. phil. 2. 6. zech. 6. 13. joh. 1. 14. 1 tim. 2. 5. heb. 2. 14. mat. 2. 26 , 38. luke 1. 27 , 31 , 34 , 35. gal. 〈…〉 heb. 4. 〈…〉 1 tim. 2. 5. heb. 2. 17. heb. 7. 24. act. 15. 14 , 15 , 16. 1 joh. 2. 2. heb. 7. 25. & 10. 21. & 9. 24. isa . 33. 22. & 32. 1 , 2. 1 cor. 15. 25. psal . 100. acts 3. 22. job . 1. 18. 1 pet. 1. 10 , 11 , 12 , joh. 15. 15. & 20. 31. gal. 4. 4. heb. 12. 23. isa . 53. 2 , 3. luk. 22. 44 mat. 27 ▪ 46 phil. 2. 8. 1 cor. 15. 4. acts 2. 24 , 25 , 26 , 27 , 31. 1 cor. 1● . 4. mark 16. 19. eph. 1. 20. acts 1. 11. & 17. 31 ▪ 1 pet. 3. 22. joh. 1. 11. tit. 3. 5 , 6. eph. 1. 13 , 14. 1 cor. 1. 9. eph. 2. 8. eph. 3. 17. 1 cor. 1. 9. 2 tim. 1. 9. 2 thess . 2. 13 , 14. acts 2. 37. & 20. 18. ezek. 36. 27. john 6. 44 , 45. rom. 3. 23 , 24 , 25 , 26. eph. 1. 6 , 7. tit. 3. 7. rom. 5. 15 , 16 , 17 , 18. 1 cor. 1. 30 2 cor. 5. 21 act. 13. 39. 2 cor. 5. 21. phil. 3. 7 , 8 , 9. rom. 10. 5. 1 john 3. 1. john 1. 10. rom. 8. 14. gal. 2. 16. 1 john 3. 1 , 2. & 4. 7. & 5. 1. 2 thess . 2. 13. eph. 4. 13. rom. 6. 5 , 〈◊〉 . 7. rom. 8. 29 , 30. rom. 5. 1 , 2 , 5. & 14. 17. prov. 4 18. 1 joh. 51. 3. 1 pet. 1. 〈◊〉 . 1 cor. 15. 43. mat. 25. 23 mat. 10. 32 1 joh. 3. 2. 1 cor. 13. 12. 1 thess . 4. 17 , 18. 2 cor. 5. 1 , 2 phil. 1. 21. 22. luk 16 ▪ 5 1 pet. 3. 19 , 20. luke 16. 23 , 24. acts 1. 25. 1 pet. 3. 19 ps . 49. 11. john 9. 28 , 29. 2 thess . 1. 8 , 9. mich. 6. 8. 1 sam. 15. 22. rev. 2. 14. mat. 19. 17 mat. 22. 37 , 38 , 39 , 40. 1 joh. 3. 4. rom. 7. 3 , 4 gen. 6. 5. rom. 3. 9 , 10 , 11 , 12 , &c. ezek. 8. 6. 1 joh. 5. 16 ps 78. 17 , 32 , 56. exod. 34. 6 ▪ rom. 3. 25 , 26. gal. 4. 4. isa . 53. 4 , 5 , 6 , 10 , 11. 1 pet. 2. 24. rom. 8. 1. john 5. 24. john 3. 15. 16. heb. 6. 18 , 19 , 20. col. 2. 12. acts 15 , 9. acts 2. 36. job 42. 5. 1 pet. 2. 7. john 3. 3. john 1. 12. isa . 26. 3 , 4. phil. 3. 9. ephes . 2. 8. acts 2. 37. joel 2. 12. jer. 3. 22. & 31. 18 , 19. ezek. 36. 31. 2 cor. 7. 10 isa . 1. 16 , 17 heb. 6. 1 , 2. zec. 12. 10. acts 2. 36. mat. 28. 19 , 20. acts 2. 42 , 46 , 47. neh. 8. 8. 1 cor. 14. 24 , 25. acts 26. 32 psal . 19. 8. rom. 1. 15 , 16. acts 20. 32 rom. 10. 13 , 14 , 15 , 16 , 17. prov. 8. 34. 1 pet. 2. 1 , 2. ps . 119. 18 heb. 4. 2. 2 thess . 2. 10. jam. 1. 25. 1 pet. 3. 21 1 cor. 12. 13. mat. 28. 19 , 20. rom. 6. 3 , 4 , 5. col. 2. 12 , 13. gal. 3. 27. acts 2. 38. & 22. 16. acts 8. 37. col. 2. 21 , 22. rev. 22. 18 prov. 30. 6. mat. 28. 19 , 20. mat. 3. 16. joh. 3. 23. acts 8. 38. rom. 6. 3. col. 2. 13. acts 2. 41 , 42. & 5. 13 , 14. 1 pet. 2. 5. luke 1. 6. acts 2. 40 , 41 , 42. eph. 4. 3. acts 2. 40 , 41 , 42 , 43 , 44 , 45 , 46 , &c. 1 cor. 16. 1 , 2. heb. 10. 25. heb. 5. 12. & 6. 1 , 2. acts 8. & 19. 6. eph. 1. 13 , 14. acts 8. & 19. 〈…〉 heb. 2. 3 , 4. a 4 ▪ 4 ▪ ●at . 26. 26 , 27 , 28. mark 14. 21 , 22 , 23. luke 22. 19 , 20. 1 cor. 11. 23 , 24 , 25 , 26 , 27. acts 20. 17. 1 tim. 3. 1 , 2 , &c. tit. 1. 5. 1 tim. 3. 2 — 12. tit. 1. 5 , 6 , 7 , 8. acts 13. 3. 1 tim. 5. 22. & 4. 14. phil. 4. 6. psal . 65. 2. john 4. 23. 1 pet. 2. 5. rom. 8. 26. john 5. 14. psal . 47. 7. eccl. 5. 1 , 2. jam. 5. 16. eph. 6. 18. 1 cor. 14. 14. col. 4. 2. josh . 24. 15. gen. 18. 19. jer. 10. 25. eph. 5. 19. col. 3. 16. acts 16. 25 heb. 2. 12. jam. 5. 13. mat. 26. 30 mar. 14. 26 exod. 20. rev. 1. 10. act. 2. 1 , 2. acts 20. 7. 1 cor. 16. 2 1 tim. 3. 2. eph. 4. 11. 1 pet. 4. 10 rom. 12. 6 , 7. 1 cor. 9. 9 — 14. rom. 15. 2● . gal. 6. 6. 1 tim. 5. 15. 2 pet. 5. 2. gen. 2. 17. rom. 3. 12. rom. 10. 5. & 5. 10 to 20. rom. 3. 19 , 20. 2 cor. 3. 9 , 11. rom. 7. 7 , 8 , 9 , 10 , 11 , 12 , 13. gal. 3. 10. zech. 6. 13. rom. 3. 23 , 24 , 25 , 26. isa . 57. 5 , 6 , 10 , 11. rom. 8. 3. heb. 9. 15 , 16 , 17. heb. 7. 22. luk. 22. 2 〈…〉 1 cor. 11. 2 〈…〉 rom. 6. 2 〈…〉 & 8. 16 , 17 , 18. rom. 8. 29 , 30 , 31. acts 13. 48. rom. 9. 11. 〈◊〉 . thess . 4. 4 , 5. 〈…〉 ph . 1. 3 , 4 , 11. 2 thess . 2. 13. rom. 8. 28 , 29 , 30 , 31. joh. 10. 28 , 29. rom. 8. 38 , 39 rom. 8. 3 〈…〉 33 , 3 〈…〉 2 tim. 2. 2 cor. 6. 17. acts 17. 31. 2 cor. 5. 10. eccles . 12. gen. 3. 24. mat. 19. 5. 1 cor. 6. 16. eph. 5. 31. rom. 7. 4. heb. 13. 4. rom. 13. 1 , 2 , 3. tit. 3. 1. 1 pet. 2. 13 : mat. 22. 21. exod. 20. 7. jer. 4. 2. gen. 24. 2. neh. 5. 12. heb. 6. 16 , 17. exod. 20. 17. acts 5. 4. & 20. 33. notes for div a47606-e4580 rom. 8. 1. mr. tho. gilbert . dr. ames saith , that not only the sins of a justified person that are past are remitted , but also in some sort those to come , num. 23. 25. joh. 5. 24. yet he distinguishes between a formal and virtual pardon : sins past , says he , are remitted in themselves , sins to come , in the subject o● person sinning . the baptists sophistry discovered in a brief answer to a late pamphlet entituled the quakers subterfuge or evasion overturned : wherein all people may plainly see ... / by william smith. smith, william, d. 1673. 1673 approx. 49 kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from 12 1-bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : 2005-12 (eebo-tcp phase 1). a60617 wing s4289 estc r34257 14171306 ocm 14171306 102149 this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons 0 1.0 universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for 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(eebo-tcp ; phase 1, no. a60617) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set 102149) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, 1641-1700 ; 1070:24) the baptists sophistry discovered in a brief answer to a late pamphlet entituled the quakers subterfuge or evasion overturned : wherein all people may plainly see ... / by william smith. smith, william, d. 1673. 23 p. s.n.], [london : 1672/3. imperfect: pages stained. reproduction of original in the union theological seminary library, new york. created by converting tcp files to tei p5 using tcp2tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between 1473 and 1700 available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the 25,363 texts created during phase 1 of the project have been released into the public domain as of 1 january 2015. anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. 5% (or 5 pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of 100 instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level 4 of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p5, characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng baptists -controversial literature. society of friends -apologetic works. 2005-04 tcp assigned for keying and markup 2005-05 apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images 2005-06 mona logarbo sampled and proofread 2005-06 mona logarbo text and markup reviewed and edited 2005-10 pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion the baptists sophistry discovered : in a brief answer to a late pamphlet , entituled , the quak 〈…〉 subterfuge or evasion overturned . wherein all people may plainly see how unjustly the baptists deal with the quakers , and how strongly they 〈…〉 d their bow , and shoot their arrows at them without a cause . published to give satisfaction unto all who simply desire to know the truth . by william smith . he that deviseth to do evil , shall be called , a mischievous pers●● prov. 248. if any man among you seem to be religious , and bridleth not his tongue , but deceiveth his own heart , this man's religion is vain , jam. 1. 86 printed in the year , 1672 / 3 the baptists sophistry discovered , &c. if necessity did not constrain me to enter upon this present concernment , i could willingly have been silent in the matter : but as i see the baptists so violently prosecuting their design 〈◊〉 the people called quakers , and so furiously endeavouring 〈…〉 der them and their principles the most obnoctious , i feel a weight upon me to appear at this time on the behalf of those people and their principles ; for i dearly own and love such as are called by that name , who are faithful to that light with which christ jesus doth enlighten them : and i certainly know ( with many more ) that whosoever are faithful to the light of christ within , that they are led and guided by it out of darkness , and from under the power of satan ; and so come to walk in him who is the way to the father , and partake of the grace and truth that comes by him ; and herein we can stand with boldness against all the calumniations which you baptists endeavour to cast upon us : for we shall not own any of your oblique or crooked envy , though you would impose it unavoidably upon us in your account . but i shall not be large by way of introduction , but come to the matter intended , which though seemingly carry'd on by ralph james only , yet believ'd , that he was not without some assistance in mannaging his work ; but however , the matter was composed either by him , or others for him , we do not much regard it : for we certainly know , that the head of the serpent must be broken by that seed which is blessed forever ; and though for a time the serpent may bruise the heel of that which is to break his head , yet his head must be broken by it , and his authority fall before it ; for the seed must raign according to promise ; yea , it doth raign , and is glorified over the serpent and his enmity : everlasting praises be unto him that lives forever . and now , ralph james , i shall come to thy matter ; and the reason why i call it thine is , because i do not find any other name subscribed ; and so i shall only take notice of thee , as being the subscriber : and as to what hath been already answered to thy procacity , or what may by any other hand be replyed to what i have in consideration , which may be termed thy proclivity to thy first matter , i shall leave it to its own method , and speak distinctly to the most considerable matters , as to thy last portraiture . come then , and duly observe thy own proceedings ; and be more ready to hear , then to offer the sacrifice of fools : for , how hast thou endeavoured to make the nation believe , through what thou hast offered and sacrificed , that the quakers are a deluded people ; and that of 〈◊〉 it must be so , from something that happened between richard a 〈…〉 son of panton in lincolnshire , and thy self , as thou assertest ? and in that particular matter thou hast concern'd the whole society of the people called quakers ; and hast endeavoured to insinuate their principles and practices to be the same with that which thou chargest upon r. a. to be erroneous : and hast not thou appeared very insolent in this thy folly ? for , what man of prudence and humility would have concern'd a whole society of people with a particular matter of a particular person ( supposing the thing to be true ) when he never was in society or fellowship with them at any time ? but i shall proceed to try thy own way of proving r. a. to be a quaker ; for that is the most principal to be taken notice of , as being the very basis upon which thou and thy brethren have raised your structure ; and if the basis or foundation be falsly and deceitfully laid , then the structure or building will fall of it self , to the shame of the builders ; and therefore i shal examine the most considerable passages which thou hast produced to prove r. a. a quaker . and first , to the reader thou sayst , that r. a. did attempt the propagation of the principles of the quakers by denouncing a curse upon thee in the name of the lord , only because of that testimony which upon just occasion thou wast ready to bear against their errors . reply , it is not the quakers principles to denounce curses in the name of the lord , and therefore r. a. did not propagate their principles in doing so ; if so he did , and for thy testimony against their errors , it was like the testimony of the unbelieving jews against christ and his apostles , if thou didst bear any testimony of that nature : but thou hast manifest nothing further to satisfie any people , that r. a. did propagate the quakers principles , or of thy own testimony against their errors , but thy bare word , who art neither a competent witness or judge in the case , and so no cause to believe that r. a. was a quaker . 2dly , thou goest on to query , what man of reason will believe , that any man should voluntarily accuse himself , and complain of the hand of the lord , and what he could propose to himself , & c ? and then concludest , saying , surely in vain do men go about to out-face a thing so manifest . rep. tho●●●●uld have queried these things , and been satisfied concerning 〈◊〉 , before thou hadst endeavoured to have made r. a. a quaker , and to fall upon the quakers with such violence from thy supposing him to be such a one ; this would have manifest more wisdom and peace , then to send thy stories abroad into the nation with such confidence as not to be disputed against ; and now forced to query , why r. a. should do so ? surely in vain hast thou wrought all this , while in thy dark imaginations , who art now querying after the ground or cause of r. a's accusing himself , and of his proposals to himself : is this the thing thou countest so manifest , that it is in vain for any man to go about to out-face it ? is that manifest which lies obscure ? and is not that obscure which cannot be demonstrated ? and here the face of truth can look upon thee , and shame may cover thy own ; for thou hast manifest thy folly , as not knowing the state of r. a. and yet wouldst make him a quaker . 3dly , thou say'st , seeing then that it cannot be denyed , but r. a. was led by the spirit of falshood , and prophesied falsly in the name of the lord , &c. rep. how doth the matter appear so undeniable , seeing it lies only betwixt r. a. & thy self ? may not a thing be justly deny'd til it can be proved by some others then the parties concerned ; and thou hast produced no such proof , and yet say'st , it cannot be deny'd ; and so thou mayst maintain a thing upon any terms , if that must be of necessity believed which thou sayst can't be deny'd : and if r. a. was led by the spirit of falshood , what doth that concern the quakers ? must he needs be a quaker because he was led by such a spirit , as thou sayst ? surely thou and thy brethren had need put on more charity , that you might walk in love ; for the quakers never used a shift to help r. a. though falsly charged with it from your dark conclusion . 4thly , thou sayst , thou hast not wronged thy conscience in all thou hast said , nor designed any evil against the persons of the quakers ; but only to make discovery of the false wayes they have chosen , that so they might escape from thence , and be saved . rep. thou hast put on a large measure of 〈…〉 fidence , that darest justifie thy self in all thou hast said , and a 〈…〉 sens 〈…〉 that thou hast wrong'd thy conscience in any thing tho● hast said ; this manner of boasting gives just cause to suspect that thou castest the reproof of christ behind thy back ; for if it were not so , thou wouldst meet with convictions in thy conscience for what thou hast said against the quakers , and wouldst be sensible that thou hast wronged thy conscience in what thou hast said : and for any design of evil against the quakers persons , thou canst not hide thy design under such a covering , for as thou design'st against our principles , we know thou dost not design any good to our persons ; and for thy discovery of our false wayes , as thou termest them , thou hast only discover'd thy own polly ; and therefore we shall not forsake our wayes , in which we are sav'd , to come into thy ways to be condemned : and so stop thy mouth for speaking of our wayes ; for thou art a stranger to them , and canst not make the least discovery of them . 5thly , thou sayst , thou dost not pretend to work miracles ; and that thou knowest thou sin'st not in what thou hast published , but hast more cause to think thou shouldst have sin'd in concealing it . rep. thou hast affirmed a miracle wrought by the prayers of thee and thy congregation , and now thou dost not pretend to such a thing : if thou hadst faith that god would answer thy prayers , thou must needs pretend to do the thing according to thy faith , or otherwise , thou hadst no faith , and so no such thing done by thee and thy congregation , as thou hast affirmed ; for no such thing was ever done without faith ; and if it was really done , what needst thou be ashamed to pretend to it ? but here thou wouldst go retrogade to cover thy self , where thou hast moved too forwardly : but this matter may fall to be answer'd more fully afterwards . and as for what thou know'st , in not sinning in what thou hast declar'd ; thou canst not take away the guilt with thy words ; for as thou hast concern'd the quakers and their principles by declaring against them , thou hast sin'd in a high degree , and the lord will not hold thee guiltless . and for sinning if thou hadst conceal'd it , thou canst not clear thy self from that guilt 〈…〉 for t●●●●ast conceal'd it eight or nine years , and so hast sin'd all t●●t time by thy own conclusion ; and thou hadst need repent , before it be too late . 6thly , thou sayst , the quakers have a faculty to accuse beyond their ability to prove . rep. take this to thy self , for the quakers are not concern'd in it ; and hast not thou accused the quakers beyond thy ability to prove thy accusations ? prove ( if thou canst ) what thou hast publickly accus'd them with ; and if thou canst not do it , then is it not an unmanly faculty in thee , to slander them with thy accusations . come ralph , thou hast made a stage to play thy part , and thou hast appeared upon it to infest the nation with thy infidelity ; but the power of the lord god is ever thee , and thy stage and thee must fall together , & so i have done with thy matter to the reader . i shal now go on as to what thou bringst for proof , to make good thy affirmation of r. a's being a quaker ; and when i have done with that matter , as it is scatter'd in thy book , i shall take notice of thy narrative , and some other things , which are most considerable , wherein thou hast concern'd the quakers and their principles : for neither thee , nor any that have assisted thee , that can discouraged the quakers in their innocency : and i shall come to the matter i have premised . page 10. thou sayst , but since the quakers in their lying-wonder , do so boldly deny , that he ( viz. ) r. a. was a quaker ; hear therefore what is attested in that case , june 17. 1672. since the publication of the quakers lying-wonder , in the presence of credible witnesses hereafter named ; and ( thou sayst ) it was demanded of r. a. whether he ever heard the quakers ? he answerd , yes , he heara them at lincoln , within the prison , about the space of an hour : and then thou sayst , it is known by sad experience , that many in as little time as that is , have been so leaven'd with their principles , as that they have not been cleansed from the corruption thereof to the day of their death . rep. the quakers might very boldly deny r. a. to be a quaker , and thou canst not prove that he was one ; but thou sayst , hear what is attested in that case , in the presence of credible ●●●nesses ▪ well , we are willing to hear what is attested ; but we m●●● ask thee , who did attest it ? did any other attest it besides r. a. ? no : and what did he attest ? that he heard the quakers at lincoln about the space of an hour : well , and what then ? must he therefore be a quaker ? see what he hath attested ; he did not say , he was a quaker by hearing them the space of an hour : but thou sayst , it is known by sad experience , &c. come ralph , thou must not thus abuse us , by telling us of credible witnesses , and then make thy own conclusions : and hast thou been puttering all this while about proving r. a. to be a quakers , & art as far to seek in thy third pamphlet as in thy first ; for there was as good proof to what r. a. said in thy first , as there is in this ; and we do not question the credit of the witnesses in what they might hear r. a. say or confess ; but we question thy conclusions , that because he might hear the quakers about an hour , that therefore he must be a quaker , because many ( as thou sayst ) in as little time have been leaven'd with their principles , as they have not been cleansed from the corruption to the day of their death . how absurd art thou in thy conclusion ? for if all that have heard the quakers one hour or two , must therefore be quakers , because of such time hearing them , then should we be many more in number then we are : but there are several have heard the quakers many hours , who are not quakers from such their hearing ; & if some in less time have receiv'd the truth by them declared , must it needs follow , that r. a. did so ? is this an infallible conclusion , that r. a. was a quaker ? and whereas thou sayst , it is known by sad experience : i ask thee , who ever came to thee to make known their sad experience , after they had received the truth of the gospel , by the quakers declared ? instance any ( if thou canst ) that we may know the sad experience of such as have been exercised therein : but these are terms of thy own forming , to lay a stumbling block in the way of the simple : and we know , that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump ; and whosoever receive the quakers principles to be leaven'd by them , they are cleansed from corruption , and are not corrupted , as thou concludest in thy vain mind : for , is the light of christ corruptible ? or doth it corrupt such as receive it , and live in it ? but we certainly know , the true seed in thee ( and many more of you ) is in bondage to corruption , and that the lord of life is crucified in spiritual sodom and egypt . thou sayst , that r. a. further shewed , that before he was at the meeting at lincoln , and after also , he had discourse with the people called quakers forty times touching their principles ; and after he had been with the quakers , he went to the meeting at north-willingham many times , to contend against the baptists more then for any thing else . rep. what dost thou stand telling us what r. a. shewed ; for it is not hearing the quakers an hour , or discoursing with them forty or a hundred times , touching their principles , that makes him a quaker , no more then several jews hearing christ and his apostles , and discoursing with them touching their principles , made them christians : and if he came to contend with thee and you at your meeting , what doth that concern the quakers ? this is poor stuff to come forth in print from a pastor . thou sayst , that he r. a. declared , without any inquiry , that the reason why he went to pronounce thee a leper , arose from the consideration of a passage , num. 12. and that he looked upon the people called quakers to be as eminently owned of god as moses ; so he was perswaded , god would send the same judgement on thee for contending against the quakers , as he sent on miriam for contending with moses . attested ( sayst thou ) by , christopher foster , william skine , john walesby , robert trigg , richard horton . rep. dost thou infer from this matter , that richard anderson was a quaker ? canst thou , or any man , rationally draw such a conclusion ? for though he might , without any inquiry , declare all this thou speak'st of , yet it doth not make him a quaker , according to the blessed truth in which they live . and for his perswasion concerning the judgment coming upon thee for contending against the quakers , it was only to himself , and the quakers cannot be charged with it , nor he made a quaker by it . but still to strengthen thy own hands thou tell'st us , the last passage richard anderson did again relate almost word for word in the presence of christopher foster aforesaid , and three strangers , which came out of oxfordshire to have satisfaction concerning the narrative ; at which time also , being asked by these strangers concerning the truth of the narrative , he said . as to the substance of it , it was all truth , and that he would own it before any man. and this ( thou sayst ) is subscribed by , the oxfordshire strangers . william greenwood , john scuchbury , john grammar , and by christopher foster , as ear-witnesses . rep. what is there in all this to make r. a. a quaker ? must his saying or confessing , that the substance of the narrative was all truth , make him a quaker ? truly the oxfordshiro strangers could not receive much satisfaction from what r. a. said or confessed , if they desired to know and be satisfied whether he was a quaker . thou sayst , the same general testimony of the truth of the narrative , or the substance of it , he the said r. a. did deliver at another time , a few dayes before the last-mentioned , in the presence of , christopher foster , william skine , john walesby , robert trigg , richard horton , rep. thou bring'st the old witnesses again to the general testimony of r. a. to the truth of the narrative , or the substance of it ; but i perceive thou darest not say , the whole narrative ; and what the substance is , thou hast not mentioned : but however , he hath not at any time testified before those witnesses , that he was a quaker , or that the narrative was all true , neither have they testified any such thing from what thou sayst he declared to them , or from their own knowledge ; and yet thou sayst , thus it appears that r. a. was a quaker : but if this be all thou canst make it appear by , there is no cause for any to believe that he was a quaker ; and so thou hast left thy self as a man without credit : for it s now well perceived , that thou hast none to stand by thee , that is able to testifie for thee from their own knowledge ; and so r. a's sayings and confessions are thy chief pillar . and to make it good thou sayst , nor can we have a better testimony then a mans own confession in this case ; for he must needs know his own opinion better then another man : nor is it possible for us to prove ( sayst thou ) what conversation ( in all respects ) he had with them , because remote from him , and not concerned in the quakers congregations . and then thou queriest , whether a man 's own confession for matter of opinion , being attended with those demonstrations of the matter of fact , thereby observed , be not a cogent proof to satisfie indifferent men ( thou sayst ) thou must leave the sober reader to judge for his own satisfaction . rep. well ralph , i perceive thou art come to an end of proving r. a. a quaker ; and if this , which thou hast brought , be all thy evidence , as may well be supposed , then r. a. must either stand by thee , or else thou must unavoidably fall ; for thou hast laid the very stress of the matter upon his single evidence , and so hast forgotten , or otherwise wilfully omitted the testimony of scriptures ; for the scripture saith , that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word shall be established ; and thou wanting this sure evidence on thy part , there are not any of thy words can be established ; for thou hast neither three , two , nor one witness to evidence the truth of thy matter ; and so all thy words are as wind , and cannot be established . but thou sayst , nor can we have a better testimony then a man 's own confession in this case , he knowing his own opinion better then another man : hast thou not much mistaken thy self in thy assertion ? for there may be a better testimony in this case then a man 's own confession , because a man may make an ignorant confession of his own opinion in relation to the principles of other people ; whereas another , that duly observes the course of his life and conversation , may be more able and fit to testifie how he answers their principles ; and such a testimony is far beyond the party 's own confessing his opinion : and so it will unavoidably follow , that whatsoever r. a. hath confessed or said , in relation to the quakers , according to his own opinion , doth not make him a quaker . and where thou speakest of the impossibility for you to prove what conversation ( in all respects ) he had with us , because remote from him , and not concerned in our congregations : we do believe it ; for how is it possible for you to prove a thing to be , that never was ? for he never had his conversation with us at any time , in any respect , neither did he frequent our meetings or congregations at all ; and so it is not possible for you to prove it . and thou ask'st this question , whether a man 's own confession for matter of opinion , being attended with th●se demonstrations of the matter of fact hereby observed , be not a cogent proof to satisfie indifferent men ? and here thou ask'st a question after thy affirmation ; for thou first saidst , nor can we have a better testimony then a man 's own confession in this case : and now thou queriest , whether a man 's own confession be not a cogent proof ? and so it may well and safely be concluded , that thou affirmest a thing that lies doubtful in thy own judgment ; and that ever r. a. confessed that he was a quaker , is beyond thy skill to prove by undeniable evidence ; and therefore thy folly is manifest , giving him a name which no man or woman did ever know him by before : for there is nothing more certain , but r. a. would soon have been called a quaker by several of his neighbours , if he had received their principles , and been acted by their spirit , as thou wouldest have it ; and thou mightest have had the evidence of several concerning his alteration from the wayes , customs , and fashions , and traditions of the world , and of his bearing a testimony for god in the quakers spirit ; but seeing it never was so , nor by him confessed to be so , thou art left as a naked man , without any covering : and thus thy subterfuge is overturned , and thou art without a hiding-place , and thy own lye is turned upon thee in calling r. a. a quaker , who never was known to have fellowship with them , or they with him ; and so the quakers not at all concern'd in r. a's errors ( if he did err ) as thou wouldst fabulously impose upon them . i shall now take notice of some passages in thy narrative , which seem to reflect upon the truth , and to justifie error ; and thereby thou mayst see how darkly and ignorantly thou hast manifest thy judgment , and how vainly thou hast endeavoured to make r. a. a quaker . 1st , thou sayst , that r. a. came to your meeting , and was convinc'd ; and said , he did believe that baptism in water was an ordinance of god. rep. it seems he was convinced at your meeting , and confessed his belief to your way of water-baptism ; and did you own him as a baptist because he confessed his belief of that which you hold and maintain to be of such absolute necessity ? now here are two things more considerable to make him a baptist , at that time , then any you have brought , in all that he has confessed , can make him a quaker ; and yet it may be supposed , that you did not at that time own him as a baptist , notwithstanding his convincement , and confessing his belief to your water-baptism as an ordinance of god. 2dly , thou sayst , that before he came again , he met with the people called quakers , who told him ( as himself confessed ) that he must not look upon those outward ordinances , for they were low ; but that he must mind the light within , and be guided by it ; and not by the scriptures , for they were a dead letter . rep. it is to be observed , that thou didst not know whether he met with any of the quakers or no , but as he confessed , and yet he must be a quaker in print : would ever any man , that had the right use of his wits , have spread such stories abroad , as thou hast done , and have no certain knowledge of what thou writest ? and your outward ordinances , as you call them , are temporal , and may be seen , and the apostle would not have such things looked at ; and they that will not be guided by the light , and follow it , they disobey the doctrine of christ , and abide in darkness ; and they that abide in darkness do not know the scriptures , nor the power of god : and this is testified upon truth 's account , whatever r. a. might say unto thee . 3dly , thou sayest , that when r. a. came again to the meeting , he much contended against the baptism of water ; and said , that now they were to be baptized with the baptism of the spirit , and not with water . rep. as for r. a's contention ( if he did so ) it doth not concern the matter in hand : and you baptists do not so well agree in all points of your belief , but you can sometimes contend one with another , and if thee and r. a. could not agree , it doth not follow , that he was a quaker : and if you be not baptized with the baptism of the spirit , how are you one body ? for it was by one spirit that the saints were baptized into one body , whether jews or gentiles : and if you can you may demonstrate , which of you all have a commission from god to be an administrator of water , in order to baptize any . 4thly , thou sayst , that r. a. said , the spirit was to try the scriptures , and not the scriptures the spirit . and then saith , that thou saidst , thou believed'st , the scriptures were to try the spirit , and not the spirit to try the scriptures . thus in thy first narrative . rep. if you discoursed on this manner , you were both at work in your imaginations ; for the spirit and scriptures agree , and do not try each other : and thou hast sufficiently manifested thy ignorance both of the spirit and of the scriptures , who would have the scriptures to try the spirit ; canst thou produce a scripture to make good thy belief ? but in thy last narrative thou seem'st to state the matter otherwise , and so would'st alter the case to cover thy self , where thou hast over-shot thy self , and some other alterations , which thou hast made in thy last , which i shall wave at present ; and why hast thou altered this matter , and put thy meaning to it ? for thou sayst in thy last , that thou believest , the scriptures were to try the spirits , and not the spirits to try the scriptures ; meaning ( sayst thou ) as before is said , that the holy spirit , as he speaketh in the scriptures , is to try and judge the spirits of men , and particularly the quakers spirit , which they call the light within : and here thou hast plainly manifested deceit unto all who have eyes to see , and thy meaning will not cover thee ; and who have any cause to believe thee , that canst twist thy words from one thing to another ? but how do the scriptures try and judge the spirits of men , according to thy meaning ? i would understand thy mind more plainly , as to this thy evasion : and why must the quakers spirit ( which thou sayst they call the light within ) be particularly tryed and judged by the scriptures ? must the letter try and judge the light ? wouldst thou make the greater subordinate to the lesser ? for that which is the original of a thing must needs be greater then that which is manifest from it , and the letter was manifest from the light ; for the holy men of god spake as they were moved by it , and it was within them when it moved them to speak : and so the holy mens spirit was the light with which the quakers have unity , and their words do not try and judge the quakers spirit , but their words are fulfilled and witnessed by the same spirit : and here the quakers are before you all , who are only in the words , as they were once spoken , and not in the spirit by which they were spoken ; and so you want the key of knowledge , which opens the mysteries of the kingdom : and when john bid the saints try the spirits , whether they were of god , he said , there were many false prophets gone out into the world ; and the false prophets were in a false spirit , which the saints were to try in the true spirit ; and so the true spirit was the tryer of all false spirits and false prophets , and the same spirit is the tryer of all spirits now ; and they that live in it hold fast that which is good , and know it to be good though false spirits may call it evil. 5thly , thou sayst , thou saidst to r. a. that thou wast afraid that the quakers were deceived , and guided by a spirit of delusion ; and that it was thy judgment , that all the sons and daughters of men ought to be guided by the scriptures . rep. it seems thou hadst no certain ground to believe that the quakers were deceived and deluded , but only wast afraid ; and so it is manifest thou couldst not try them , either by the spirit or scriptures : surely wise men will be ashamed of thy ignorance and folly : and for the removing thy vain fear , we are willing to tell thee and thy brethren , that we live in the blessed truth , where righteousness & peace embrace and kiss each other . and as for thy judgment , that all the sons and daughters of men ought to be guided by the scriptures ; thou hast given thy judgment inconsiderately ; for thou hast not demonstrated any thing as a ground why it ought to be so , but only stated it from thy own judgment ; and if thy judgment be sufficient to bring others to be of the same judgment , then the judgment of the pope may plead authority , and so people may as soon be papists as baptists ; and if there be no other guide , but the scriptures , for the sons & daughters of men to be guided by ; then what guide have such as never heard nor read the scriptures ? have such no guide to lead them to fear god , and work righteousness , to be accepted of him ? or must they of necessity perish for want of the scriptures to be their guide ? or whether can such a people be saved ? thou art here concern'd to give thy judgment again ; for there is not yet such a decision of the great controversie , as thou vainly boasteth . 6thly , thou now comest to speak of r. a' s coming to reprove thee , and pronounce thee a leper ; and that a little time after he confessed , he was deceived , and was a false prophet ; and that the same judgment was come upon one of his children , and himself , wife and other children taken with a restless pain in their bodies : and that he desired thee to pray for him , and thou and thy congregation did pray for the removing of that distemper and affliction ; and they were restored to their former health again , which ( thou sayst ) r. a. confessed when he came to the meeting again . ans. it is to be observed , that the very ground of all the buzzle and noise , which thou hast made against the quakers , is only from the bare and single confession of r. a. and thy own consequences and conclusion from what he hath confessed and said , but thy groundless conclusions do not prove so effectual for thy purpose ; as thou might'st vainly suppose when thou begun'st thy work : for though thou hast made such a noise against the light within , and against the quakers , because r. a. might tell thee , the quakers did tell him , he was to mind the light , to be guided by it ; yet the light is not to be charged with r. a's miscarrying , if he did miscarry in any thing wherein he concern'd the light : for if he did concern the light in giving judgment against thee , and then afterwards confest , that he was deceived , and was a false prophet ; this doth not make the light to be a false principle , nor those that are faithful to it , to be guided by it , a deluded people : and if he did confess , that he was deceived , it doth not follow , that the light deceived him ; for there were never any false prophets in the true light , nor never any true prophets out of it ; and so it is very clear , that r. a. was not guided by the true light when he was deceived , and was a false prophet ; neither doth it appear by all thou hast said , that he was guided by the light , and yet he must be call'd a quaker , because he might sometimes have something to say of the light , and against water-baptism : and suppose this was granted , yet it doth not make him any more a quaker , then for a man to speak of water-baptism and against the pope would make him a baptist ; and if such a man should do or say something that is a manifest error , would you baptists take it well , that his error should be charged upon your whole society , and you counted a deluded people because of such a miscarriage by that man , when he was never taken notice of to be owned by you ? it may well be concluded , that you would be ready to clear your selves , both from the man , and his miscarriage ; and to blame such as should lay his miscarriage upon you : and if you would not be willing to bear such a thing your selves , if cast upon you from such a ground , why then do you so much busie your selves to do it unto us ? are you doing in this as you would be done by ? let the juditious judge : for you neither manifest justice , equity or mercy towards us in this matter ; but rather vent your envy and malice against us , as the sober-minded well perceive . and as for the judgment of r. a. against thee r. j. if such a thing was , and the thing coming upon himself and family , it doth not concern the quakers at all , or the light of christ within , which is their principle ; and hadst thou been so wise , as to have let the quakers alone , and not concern'd them , its possible the story of thy prayers for removing such a judgment might have made thee and you famous in the eyes of some who delight in novelties : but thou hast taken a wrong course to advance thy own glory ; and in time , both thee , and those that have assisted thee in thy work , will fall under your own shame : for the true light is not to be charged with that which by a false spirit may be done , no more then an innocent man is to be charg'd with the offence of an offender ; for , all that live in the true light receive true commands , and no error is to be charg'd upon the commander , nor such accounted deluded that keep his commands ; for the true light leadeth all those that faithfully follow it out of all error , into all truth ; but where imaginations have liberty to work , they conceive a false thing , and bring forth a false birth , and in that work the light may be pretended though not at all concerned : and by this thou mayst see where r. a. was when he was deceived , and was a false prophet , as thou sayst he confessed . and so it is not what any may speak of the light within that makes the light guilty of any thing that may be done amiss by such as speak of it ; for it stands a witness against them in their consciences , when transgress it . and as for r. a. and his family being restor'd to their former health , by the prayers of thee and thy congregation , it is still to prove , though thou hast gotten several subscribers to what r. a. confess'd concerning it ; and in such a manner thou mayst write one book after another with reiteration ; for thou brought'st evidence to what r. a. confessed in thy first , and thou art gotten no further yet , only hast gotten new witnesses to r. a's old confession ; and so all thou hast done by thy last subscribers is but a further manifestation of thy folly , and it is not worth taking notice of in particulars , neither shall i trouble my self or the reader with such impertinencies : and thou dost as much as confess , that as to thy own knowledge , thou wast ignorant of any affliction upon r a. and his family , or of their recovery ; for thou sayst , hadst thou fore-seen this peevishness in the incredulous quakers , thou mightest perhaps have deprived them of this their foolish advantage ; and then thou bringest christ and the apostle paul , whom ( thou sayst ) did not go to visit all for whose ▪ health ▪ they prayed : and so thou wouldst parralel thy self with those unparralel'd workers ; & thou wouldst bring thy self off again by saying , but what am i , o lord ! i confess unto thee , i am not worthy to be mention'd here ; and so thou first seem'st to include thy self with christ and the apostle , and then wouldst exclude thy self again , as not worthy to be mention'd : and for thy fore-seeing the peevishness of the quakers ( as thou term'st it ) thou hast sham'd thy self with that expression ; for it seems thou hadst nothing in it to have satisfy'd thy self of the truth of the matter , but only to have depriv'd the quakers of that which thou callest their foolish advantage ; and so thou couldst not pray either in faith or hope , who didst not know whether there was any affliction upon those thou prayd'st for or no ; and so thou and thy congregation pray'd at an adventure , and r. a. confessed to the restoration of health again ; and this is the great wonder which thou hast spread abroad in the nation , to make people believe , that you prevail'd with god by your prayers : but the most juditious do rather believe that it was a meer fiction , and thou art not able from thy own knowledg to demonstrate it otherwise . and thus i have done with thy narrative . i shall now take notice of some particular passages , which thou hast stated to make good r. a's affliction and restoration . thou speakest of some that asked him ( meaning r. a. ) whether he himself had not a child presently after that was leprous ? and he said , he had a child then that did break out into sores , p. 13. rep. mark this confessor ; he did not directly answer the question of the enquirers , as to confess his child had a leprosie ; but that he had a child broke out into sores : and it is well known to all that have their senses , that there may be a breaking out into sores , and yet no leprosie : and this is all that r. a. confessed upon inquiry . how hath the poor man been drawn out and squeezed by inquirers , to answer the end which thou unjustly hast begun ? thou sayst in the same page , that the title page of the narrative was not of thy composing . rep. it seems you baptists can shuffle to make out your own matter ; and thou canst subscribe to that which is not of thy own composing : and to help the matter as well as thou canst , thou sayst , it is not without truth ; but whether this appears like the truth , i shall leave to all unbyast judgments to determine . thou endeavourest pa. 10. to make r. a. a quaker without any contradiction , saying , that r. a. was a quaker in principles , and owned that people above all others , and was acted by their spirit , is palpable enough from what is said in the narrative . ans. thou now seemst to leave thy subscribers to r. a's confession , and take the matter upon thy self , as if thy own word should carry the matter more clearly then all that r. a. hath confessed , and by several subscrib'd : and must we take thy bare word that r. a. was a quaker in principles , and own'd us above all others , and was acted by our spirit ? wouldst tho● impose these things upon us from thy vain conclusions ? but as thou hast refer'd this matter to the narrative , as such a palpable thing , i shall not run into tautology ; but desire the reader to peruse what is answer'd to the narrative , which , i doubt not , will fully satisfie any juditious person touching this matter . i shall take a little notice of three heads , which thou statest to make good this false assertion . first , thou sayst , in that he contributes his testimony to that which they call the light within , at as high a rate as the most of that way ; which ( sayst thou ) if they have any principles at all , is the chief of their principles . answ. what testimony ( as thou callst it ) r. a. did contribute to the light within , or at what rate , we have only thy bare word , and our belief not being in thee , we can't credit thy stories , and therefore thy words are but as wind unto us . but thou sayst , if we have any principles at all , the light is the chief : and here thou questionest , whether we have any principles at all ; and yet , even now affirmed , that r. a. was a quaker in principles : who would take thy word , that know'st not what thou sayst , or whereof thou affirmest ? and if the light be the chief ( as thou put'st the case ) we have no cause to be asham'd of it : but thou shalt not at this time be made wiser by me , in demonstrating what our principles are , or what is the chief ; but thou mayst grope in the dark , where thou art , seeing thou dost not love the light. secondly , thou sayst , in that he took upon him to appear as a prophet for the quakers ; condemning such as opposed them , and proclaiming them to be the people of god. answ. thou once saidst , the light commanded him ; and now sayst , he took upon him : mark thy contradiction , and condemn thy folly ; for he did not appear as a prophet for the quakers , though he might rebuke thee for speaking against them ; for that he might do in civility , as a man , seeing thy incivility in speaking against them behind their backs , and yet no more a quaker for rebuking thy folly , then thou in thy folly : and where did he proclaim them to be the people of god ? dost thou count that to be his proclamation , when he said , he was come to reprove thee for speaking against the people of god called quakers ; this is all the proclamation that can be found in all thou hast expressed , & whether this was true or no , we have no evidence besides thy own ; and we have no cause to believe thee , who art the very author of such unheard of and incredulous stories . thou makest a rabble about the evidence , that the quakers bring to invalidate the narrative , as if they were either abused , or most unworthily forged : but this is such a piece of foppery as not worth taking any notice of , except one did intend to follow thee in thy humors ; and being so inconsiderable , as not to carry any thing of weight to make any thing good on thy part , or to make any thing good against the quakers , either for abusing , or unworthily forging any thing , i shall wholy wave it ; only take notice of one passage , p. 16. concerning something that thou sayst katherine hall should say of the quakers calling for much ale , and brought it into the street , bid the people drink what they would , and if they mould have more they should have it ; and then thou draw'st thy own conclusion , saying , probably to move the people to befriend them , with the more liberal testimony . answ. canst thou tell us the longitude or latitude of this story ? for i do not know who can find out either : and was it unbecoming christianity or civility , to bid the people drink , who came thither upon their account ? but this matter needs no answering ; for all that know the quakers , do very well know their moderation , temporance and sobriety , and that they 〈◊〉 not inclin'd to the excess of strong drink , or any way to encourage others in such a practice : but one may plainly see , that thou wouldst creep under any thing for thy subterfuge , and thy wickedness in this matter appeareth in a very high degree . thirdly , thou sayst , by his acting after the manner of divers quakers in these dayes , going on unsent errands , only moved by the conceits of their own hearts . answ. his acting was not after the manner of any quakers according to thy conclusion ; for the quakers know who sends them on their errands , & know their errand , though thou knowest neither ; and he that sends them is true , and truth is their errand ; and being moved by him , who is the fountain of life , and well-spring of mercies , to labour and travel in his work , they are upheld by his power to do his will ; and this is more then the conceits of their own hearts : though the goo heart may conceive good things , and indict good matters ; but thy motions lie in the conceits of thy own brain , which is a habitation of notions . and seeing thou affirm'st , the quakers go on unsent errands , i ask thee , or any baptist , who sendeth you on your errand , seeing you pretend to have an errand ? have you heard the voice of god and christ to tell you your errand , and to send you forth with it ? give us a plain answer . and thus i have answer'd the most considerable passages in the pamphlet to maintain r. a. a quaker ; and i may well hope , that the juditious & sober-minded , who only desire to know the truth , will be fully satisfied that r. a. was never a quaker in principle , judgment or practice ; and so the baptists are plainly discover'd in their sophistry . and as to the rest of thy book , concerning christ the light in every man , and about ordinances , &c. thou and the reader art refer'd to 〈…〉 which is coming forth , in answer to tho. hicks , called 〈…〉 ich doth treat fully concerning these things ; in which 〈…〉 hy brethren's objections and cavils are fully answered . w. s. the end . the glory of a true church, and its discipline display'd wherein a true gospel-church is described : together with the power of the keys, and who are to be let in, and who to be shut out / by benjamin keach. keach, benjamin, 1640-1704. 1697 approx. 83 kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from 37 1-bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : 2005-12 (eebo-tcp phase 1). a47522 wing k66 estc r19810 12352725 ocm 12352725 60040 this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons 0 1.0 universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase 1, no. a47522) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set 60040) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, 1641-1700 ; 213:10) the glory of a true church, and its discipline display'd wherein a true gospel-church is described : together with the power of the keys, and who are to be let in, and who to be shut out / by benjamin keach. keach, benjamin, 1640-1704. iv, 5-69 [i.e. 72] p. [s.n.], london : 1697. reproduction of original in british library. created by converting tcp files to tei p5 using tcp2tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between 1473 and 1700 available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the 25,363 texts created during phase 1 of the project have been released into the public domain as of 1 january 2015. anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. 5% (or 5 pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of 100 instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level 4 of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p5, characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng church discipline -early works to 1800. baptists -government. baptists -doctrines. 2005-04 tcp assigned for keying and markup 2005-07 spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images 2005-08 judith siefring sampled and proofread 2005-08 judith siefring text and markup reviewed and edited 2005-10 pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion the glory of a true church , and its discipline display'd . wherein a true gospel-church is described . together with the power of the keys , and who are to be let in , and who to be shut out . by benjamin keach . mat. 18.18 . whatsoever ye shall bind on earth , shall be bound in heaven ; and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth , shall be loosed in heaven . london ; printed in the year 1697. to the baptized churches , particularly to that under my care. my brethren , every house or building consisteth both of matter and form : and so doth the church of christ , or house of the living god. the matter or materials with which it is built are lively stones , ● . e. converted persons : also the matter and form must be according to the rule and pattern shewed in ●he mount , i mean christ's institution , and the apostolical churches constitution , and not after mens inventions . now some men , because the ty●ical church of the jews was na●ional , and took in their carnal seed ( as such ) therefore the same mat●er and form they would have under the gospel . but tho a church be rightly built in both these respects , i.e. of fit matter and right form , yet without a regular and orderly discipline , it will soon lose its beauty , and be polluted . many reverend divines of th● congregational way , have written most excellently ( it is true ) upon th●● subject , i mean on church-discipline ; but the books are so voluminou● that the poorer sort can't purchas● them , and many others have not tim● or learning enough to improve them to their profit ; and our brethren th● baptists have not written ( as i ca● gather ) on this subject by it self● therefore i have been earnestly desired by our members , and also by on● of our pastors , to write a small and plain tract concerning the rules 〈◊〉 the discipline of a gospel-church that all men may not only know our faith , but see our order in this cas● also . true , this ( tho plain ) is bi● short , but may be it may provoke som● other person to do it more fully . certainly , ignorance of the rules of discipline causes no small trouble and disorders in our churches ; and if this may be a prevention , or prove profit able to any , let god have the glory , and i have my end : who am , yours aug. ●● ▪ 1697. benj. keach . the glory of a gospel-church , and the true orderly discipline thereof explain'd . concerning a true and orderly gospel-church . before there can be any orderly discipline among a christian assembly , they must be orderly and regularly constituted into a church-state , according to the institution of christ in the gospel . 1. a church of christ , according to the gospel-institution , is a congregation of godly christians , who as a stated-assembly ( being first baptized upon the profession of faith ) do by mutual agreement and consent give themselves up to the lord , and one to another , according to the will of god ; and do ordinarily meet together in one place , for the publick service and worship of god ; among whom the word of god and sacraments are duly administred , according to christ's institution . 2. the beauty and glory of which congregation doth consist in their being all converted persons , or lively stones ; being by the holy spirit , united to jesus christ the precious corner-stone , and only foundation of every christian , as well as of every particular congregation , and of the whole catholick church . 3. that every person before they are admitted members , in such a church so constituted , must declare to the church ( or to such with the pastor , that they shall appoint ) what god hath done for their souls , or their experiences of a saving work of grace upon their hearts ; and also the church should enquire after , and take full satisfaction concerning their holy lives , or good conversations . and when admitted members , before the church they must solemnly enter into a covenant , to walk in the fellowship of that particular congregation , and submit themselves to the care and discipline thereof , and to walk faithfully with god in all his holy ordinances , and there to be fed and have communion , and worship god there , when the church meets ( if possible ) and give themselves up to the watch and charge of the pastor and ministry thereof : the pastor then also signifying in the name of the church their acceptance of each person , and endeavour to take the care of them , and to watch over them in the lord , ( the members being first satisfied to receive them , and to have communion with them . ) and so the pastor to give them the right hand of fellowship of a church , or church organical . a church thus constituted ought forthwith to choose them a pastor , elder or elders , and deacons , ( we reading of no other officers , or offices abiding in the church ) and what kind of men they ought to be , and how qualified , is laid down by paul to timothy , and to titus . moreover , they are to take special care , that both bishops , overseers , or elders , as well as the deacons , have in some competent manner all those qualifications ; and after in a day of solemn prayer and fasting , that they have elected them , ( whether pastor , &c. or deacons ) and they accepting the office , must be ordained with prayer , and laying on of hands of the eldership ; being first prov'd , and found meet and fit persons for so sacred an office : therefore such are very disorderly churches who have no pastor or pastors ordained , they acting not according to the rule of the gospel , having something wanting . of the work of a pastor , bishop or overseer . 1. the work of a pastor is to preach the word of christ , or to feed the flock , and to administer all the ordinances of the gospel which belong to his sacred office , and to be faithful and laborious therein , studying to shew himself approved unto god , a work-man that needeth not be ashamed , rightly dividing the word of truth . he is a steward of the mysteries of god , therefore ought to be a man of good understanding and experience , being sound in the faith , and one that is acquainted with the mysteries of the gospel : because he is to feed the people with knowledg and vnderstanding . he must be faithful and skilful to declare the mind of god , and diligent therein , also to preach in season and out of season ; god having committed unto him the ministry of reconciliation , a most choice and sacred trust. what interest hath god greater in the world which he hath committed unto men than this ? moreover , he must make known the whole counsel of god to the people . 2. a pastor is to visit his flock , to know their state , and to watch over them , to support the weak , and to strengthen the feeble-minded , and succour the tempted , and to reprove them that are unruly . 3. to pray for them at all times , and with them also when sent for , and desired , and as opportunity serves ; and to sympathize with them in every state and condition , with all love and compassion . 4. and to shew them in all respects , as near as he can , a good example in conversation , charity , faith and purity ; that his ministry may be the more acceptable to all , and the name of god be glorified , and religion delivered from reproach . 5. he must see he carries it to all with all impartiality , not preferring the rich above the poor , nor lord it over . god's heritage , nor assume any greater power than god hath given him ; but to shew a humble and meek spirit , nay to be clothed with humility . the office and work of deacons . the work of deacons is to serve tables , viz. to see to provide for the lord's table , the minister's table , and the poor's table ( 1. ) they should provide bread and wine for the lord's table . ( 2. ) see that every member contributes to the maintenance of the ministry , according to their ability , and their own voluntary subscription or obligation . ( 3. ) that each member do give weekly to the poor , as god has blessed him . ( 4. ) also visit the poor , and know their condition as much as in them lies ; that none , especially the aged widows , be neglected . of the duty of church-members to their pastor . 1 st . 't is the duty of every member to pray for their pastor and teachers . brethren , pray for us , that the word of the lord may run and be glorified . again , saith paul , praying also for us , that god would open unto us a door of utterance , to speak the mystery of christ. prayer was made without ceasing of the church unto god for him . they that neglect this duty seem not to care either for their minister , or their own souls , or whether sinners be converted , and the church edified or not . they pray for their daily bread , and will they not pray to have the bread of life plentifully broken to them ? motives to this . 1. ministers work is great : who is sufficient for these things ? 2. the opposition is not small which is made against them . 3. god's loud call is ( as well as ministers themselves ) for the saints continual prayers and supplication for them . 4. their weakness and temptations are many . 5. the increase and edification of the church depends upon the success of their ministry . 6. if they fall or miscarry , god is greatly dishonoured , and his ways and people reproached . 2 dly . they ought to shew a reverential estimation of them , being christ's ambassadors , also called rulers , angels , &c. they that honour them , and receive them , honour and receive jesus christ. esteem them very highly in love for their work sake . again , he saith , let the elders that rule well , be accounted worthy of double honour , especially they who labour in word and doctrine : that is , as i conceive , such that are most laborious . 3 dly . 't is their duty to submit themselves unto them , that is , in all their exhortations , good counsels and reproofs ; and when they call to any extraordinary duty , as prayer , fasting , or days of thanksgiving , if they see no just cause why such days should not be kept , they ought to obey their pastor or elder , as in other cases also . obey them that have the rule over you , and submit your selves . 4 thly . it is their duty to take care to vindicate them from the unjust charges of evil men , or tongue of infamy , and not to take up a reproach against them by report , nor to grieve their spirits , or weaken their hands . 5 thly . 't is the duty of members to go to them when under trouble or temptations . 6 thly . it is their duty to provide a comfortable maintenance for them and their families , sutable to their state and condition . let him that is taught in the word , communicate to him that teacheth , in all good things . who goeth a warfare at his own charge ? who planteth a vineyard , and eateth not of the fruit thereof ? &c. even so hath the lord ordained , that they that preach the gospel , should live of the gospel . if we have sown unto you spiritual things , is it a great thing if we shall reap your carnal things ? they should minister to them chearfully with all readiness of mind . ministers are not to ask for their bread , but to receive it honourably . the ministers maintenance , tho it is not by tythes , &c. as under the law , yet they have now as just a right to a comfortable maintenance as they had then , the equity of the duty is the same : our saviour , saith dr. owen , and the apostles plead it from grounds of equity and justice ; and all kind of laws and rules of righteousness among men of all sorts calls for it . 7 thly . it is their duty to adhere to them , and abide by them in all their trials and persecutions for the word . ye were not ashamed of me in my bonds , &c. 8 thly . dr. owen adds another duty of the members to their pastor , viz. to agree to come together upon his appointment : when they were come , and had gathered the church together , &c. query , are there no ruling elders besides the pastor ? answ. there might be such in the primitive apostolical church , but we see no ground to believe it an abiding office to continue in the church , but was only temporary . 1. because we have none of the qualifications of such elders mention'd , or how to be chosen . 2. because we read not particularly what their work and business is , or how distinct from preaching elders ; tho we see not but the church may ( if she sees meet ) choose some able and discreet brethren to be helps in government : we have the qualifications of bishops and deacons directly laid down , and how to be chosen , and their work declared , but of no other office or officers in the church , but these only . quest. may an elder of one church if called , warrantably administer all ordinances to another ? answ. no surely ; for we find no warrant for any such practice , he being only ordained pastor or elder of that particular church that chose him , &c. and hath no right or authority to administer as an elder in any other where he is not so much as a member . quest. may a church call out a teacher that is no ordained elder to administer all ordinances to them ? ans. you may as well ask , may a church act disorderly ? why were ministers to be ordained , if others unordained might warrantably do all their work ? if therefore they have no person fitly qualified for that office , they must look out from abroad for one that is . yet ( as we say ) necessity has no law ; provided therefore they can't do either , it is better their teacher be called to do it , than that the church should be without their food , and church-ordinances neglected ; yet let all churches take care to organize themselves , and not through covetousness , or neglect of duty , rest incompleat churches , and so under sin. god is the god of order , and not of confusion , in all the churches of the saints . and how severely did god deal of old with such that meddled with the priests work and office , who were not of the priesthood , nor called by him to administer in holy things ! of the reception of members . quest. what is the order of receiving members into the church , that were no members any where before ? answ. 1. the person must give an account of his faith ; and of the work of grace upon his soul before the church ; and also a strict enquiry must be made about his life and conversation : but if through bashfulness the party cannot speak before the congregation , the elder and two or three more persons may receive an account of his or her faith , and report it to the church . but if full satisfaction by the testimony of good and credible persons is not given of the party's life and conversation , he must be put by until satisfaction is obtained in that respect . moreover , when the majority are satisfied , and yet one or two persons are not , the church and elder will do well to wait a little time , and endeavour to satisfy such persons , especially if the reasons of their dissent seem weighty . quest. what is to be done when a person offers himself for communion from a church that is corrupt , or erroneous in principles ? answ. 1. the church ought to take an account of his faith in all fundamental points , and of the work of grace upon his heart . 2. and if satisfied , then to send also to that corrupt people , to know whether they have any thing or not against his life and conversation : if satisfied in both these respects , the church may receive him . quest. to whom is it members ●oin themselves ? is it to the elder , or to the church ? answ. they are joined to the whole community of the church , being incorporated as members thereof , and thereto abide , tho the pastor be removed by death . the power of the keys , with church — discipline , and members duties one to another . 1. we judg it necessary that a day monthly be appointed particularly for discipline , and not to manage such affairs on the lord's-day , which should be spent ●n the publick worship of god , of ● different nature : besides , such ●hings may ( on the account of discipline ) come before the church which may not be expedient to be ●eard on the lord's-day , lest it ●isturb the spirits of any members , and hinder their meditation ●n the word which they have ●ewly heard : tho in small congregations perhaps a day in two or three months may be sufficient . 2. the power of the keys , or to receive in and shut out of the congregation , is committed unto the church : the political power of christ , saith dr. chauncy , is in the church , whereby it is exercised in the name of christ , having all lawful rule and government within it self , which he thus proves , viz. 1. the church essential is the first subject of the keys . 2. they must of necessity to their preservation , purge themselves from all pernicious members . 3. they have power to organize themselves with officers . yet i humbly conceive i may add , that the concurrence of the presbytery is needful hereunto . 4. if need be that they call an officer from without , or one of another church , they must first admit him a member , that they may ordain their officer from among themselves . 5. they have power to reject a scandalous pastor from office and membership . ' this power of christ is exerted as committed to them by the hands of the elder appointed by christ , the due management whereof is in and with the church to be his care and trust , as a steward , whereof he is accountable to christ and the church , not lording it over god's heritage . and that the power of the keys is in the church , appears to me from mat. 18. if he will not hear the church ; it is not said , if he will not hear the elder , or elders . as also that of the apostle , in directing the church to cast out the incestuous person , he doth not give this counsel to the elder or elders of the church , but to the church ; so he commands the church to withdraw from every brother that walks disorderly . purge out the old leaven , that you may be a new lump . of church-censures . now as to church-censures i understand but two besides suspension , viz. ( 1. ) withdrawing from a member that walks disorderly . ( 2. ) casting out , o● excommunicating such that are e●ther guilty of notorious or scanda●lous crimes , of heresy , &c. o● of contemning the authority o● the church . briefly to each of these . 1. suspension is to be when'● member falls under sin , and th● church wants time fully to hea● the matter , and so can't withdraw from him , or cast him out . 2. if any member walks disorderly , tho not guilty of gross scandalous sins , he or she , as soon as it is taken notice of , ought to be admonished , and endeavours to be used to bring him to repentance : for we hear that there are some which walk disorderly , not working at all , but are busy-bodies . such as meddle with matters that concern them not , it may be ( instead of following their trade and business ) they go about from one member's house to another , telling or carrying of tales and stories of this brother , or of that brother or sister , which perhaps may be true , or perhaps false , and may be too to the reproach or scandal of some member or members , which , if so , it is back-biting ; and that is so notorious a crime , that without repentance they shall not ascend god's holy hill. back-biting is a diminishing our neighbours , or brother's good name , either by denying him his due praise , or by saying any thing to his charge falsely or irregularly , or without sufficient cause or evidence , thus our annotators . but this of disorderly walking does not amount to such a crime , but evils not so notorious ; now them ●●at are such , we command and exhort by our lord jesus christ , that with quietness they work , and eat their own bread. they must be admonished . 1. an admonition is a faithful endeavour to convict a person of a fault , both as to matter of fact and circumstance ; and this admonition must be given first , if it be private , by that brother that knows or has knowledg of the fault or evil of the person offending , whether the elder , or member ; for any private brother ought to admonish such with all care and faithfulness before he proceeds farther . but if it be publick , th● church ought to send for the offender , and the pastor must admonish him before all . 2. but if after all due endeavours used he is not reclaimed , bu● continues a disorderly person , the church must withdraw from him . now we command you brethren , is the name of our lord jesus christ , that you withdraw from every b●●ther that walketh disorderly , and not after the traditions he received from us . this is not a delivering up to satan , excommunicating of dismembring the person ; for this sort are still to be owned as members , tho disorderly ones : the church must note him ▪ so as not to have communion or company with him in that sense ; yet court him not as an enemy , but exhort him as a brother : if any man obey not our word , note that man. it appears that such who refuse to adhere to what the pastor commands and exhorts to , in the name of christ , are to be deemed disorderly persons , as such are who meet ●ot with the church when assembled together to worship god , or ●hat neglect private or family prayer , or neglect their attendance on the lord's-supper , or to contribute to the necessary charges of the church , or suffer any evils unreproved in their children ; all such may be lookt upon disorderly walkers , and ought to be proceeded against according to this rule , or divulge the private resolves of the church , as well as in many like cases . of private offences of one brother against another . 1. as touching private offences , the rule mat. 18. is to be observed , only this by the way must be premised , viz. if but one brother or two have the knowledg of some members crime , yet if it be publickly known to the world , and the name of god be reproached , it being an immoral act , 〈◊〉 private brother is not to proceed with such an offender , according to mat. 18. but forthwith to brin● it to the church , that the public● scandal may be taken off . 2. but if it be a private offenc● or injury done to a brother 〈◊〉 sister in particular , and not bei●● a notorious scandalous sin , tha● brother must not mention it to one soul , either within , or without the church , until he hath proceeded according to the rule . ( 1. ) he must tell his brother his fault . moreover , if thy brother shall trespass against thee , go and tell him his fault betwixt thee and him alone ; if he shall hear thee , thou hast gained thy brother . thou must labour in love and all affections to convince him o● his fault ; but if he will not hea● thee , ( 2. ) thou must take one or two more , but be sure see they are discreet persons , and such that ar● most likely to gain upon him ; and they with thee are to labour with all wisdom to bring him to the sense of his fault : 't is not iust to speak to him , as if that were enough ; no , no , but to take all due pains , and to strive to convince him , that so the matter may be issued , and the church not troubled with it : but if he will not hear thee , take one or two more , that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established . 3. but if he will not hear them after all due means and admonitions used , then it must be brought to the church ; and if he will not hear the church , he must be cast out : the elder is to put the question , whether the offending brother be in their judgments incorrigible , and refuseth to hear the church ; which passing in the affirmative by the vote of the congregation , or the majority of the brethren by the lifting up of their hands , or by their silence ; the pastor after calling upon god , and opening the nature of the offence , and the justness of their proceedings , in the name and by the authority of christ , pronounces the sentence of e● communication to this effect . that a. b. being guilty of great iniquity , and not manifesting ●●feigned repentance , but refusing to hear the church , i do in the name , and by the authority of christ committed unto me as pastor of this his church , pronounce and declare that he is to be , and is hereby excommunicated , excluded or cast out of the congregation , and no longer to be owned a brother , or a member of this church ; and this for the destruction of the flesh , that his spirit may be saved in the day of the lord jesus . and this we believe is the substance of that which the apostle calls a delivering up to satan , he being cast into the world , which is called the kingdom of satan , where he rules and reigns . the delivery unto satan ( saith dr. chauncy ) signifies only the solemn exclusion of a person from the communion of the church , the visible kingdom of christ , and disinfranchizing him , or divesting him of all visible right to church privileges , casting him into the kingdom of the world , where the prince of darkness rules in the children of disobedience . and this being done , he is to be esteemed to be no better than an heathen man , or publican , or as an evil person , and not to have so much as intimate civil communion withal . of scandalous persons guilty of gross acts of immorality . if any member fall into any gross acts of sin , as swearing , lying , drunkenness , fornication , covetousness , extortion , or the like , and it is known and publickly spread abroad to the great scandal and reproach of religion , and of the holy name of god , his church , and people ; the said offender so charged , the church must send one or two brethren to him to come before the congregation : if he will not come , but doth slight and contemn the authority of the church , that will bring farther guilt upon him , for which offence he incurs the censure before mentioned but if he doth appear , his charge is to be laid before him , and the witnesses called ; and after he ha● made his defence , and said all he hath to say , and the congregation finds him guilty , then the same censure is to pass upon him , to the end he may be brought to unfeigned repentance , and the name of god cleared ; and some time must be taken to make it appear that he hath true repentance , by the reformation of his life and holy walking afterwards , before he be received again , and the censure of the church in a solemn manner be taken off . dr. chauncy puts this question , quest. how is a church to proceed in case of open and notorious scandals ? the answer is , ' the matter of fact , as such , being beyond all question ; the church is to proceed immediately to censure , to vindicate the honour of christ and his church , and to manifest to the world their just indignation against such notorious offenders , and wait for a well-grounded and tryed evidence of his true repentance under that ordinance of christ which is appointed to that end . observe , it is the opinion of the doctor , that tho the person be penitent , yet because his sin is open and scandalous , he ought to be cast out to vindicate the honour of christ and the church , as part of his just punishment ( that being one reason of the ordinance of excommunication ) as well as to bring the person to thorow repentance ; and we are of his mind . paul takes no notice in the case of the incestuous person of his immediate repentance ; or if he repent not , then , &c. but says he , deliver such a one to satan , &c. saith the lord , if her father had but spit in her face , should she not be ashamed seven days ? let her be shut out from the camp seven day : ( speaking of miriam ) and after that let her be received in again . of dealing with hereticks and blasphemers . as touching hereticks or heresy , the same censure , when they are convicted , ought to pass against them ; heresy is commonly restrained to signify any perverse opinion or error in a fundamental point of religion , as to deny the being of god , or the deity of christ , or his satisfaction , and justification alone by his righteousness , or to deny the resurrection of the body , or eternal judgment , or the like . yet our annotators say , the word signifies the same thing with schism and divisions ; which if so , such that are guilty of schism or divisions in the church , ought to be excommunicated also . heresies are called damnable by the apostle peter ; without repentance such cannot be saved , as bring in damnable heresies , denying the lord that bought them . two things render a man an heretick according to the common signification of the word . 1. an error in matters of faith , fundamental or essential to salvation . 2. stubbornness and contumacy in holding and maintaining it . a man that is an heretick , after the first and second admonition reject . now that this rejection is all one with excommunication , appears by what paul speaks , 1 tim. 1.20 . of whom is hymeneus and alexander , whom i have delivered unto satan , that they may learn not to blaspheme . their heresy , or blasphemy was in saying the resurrection was past . some would have none be counted an heretick but he who is convicted and condemned so to be in his own conscience , mistaking paul's words , knowing that he that is such , is subverted , being condemned of himself . he may be condemned of himself , tho not for his heresy , yet for his spending his time about questions , and strife of words , to the disquieting the peace of the church ; or tho not condemned of himself directly , yet indirectly ; according to the purport of his own notion , or what he grants about the point in debate , &c. else the apostle refers to some notable and notorious self-condemned heretick . it is a great question , whether hymeneus and alexander we●● condemned in their own consciences , about that heresy charged upon them , and yet were delivered up to satan . however the rule is plain , respecting any that are subverted , and resolutely maintain any heretical notion , i. e. after he hath been twice ( or oftner ) admonished , that is , after all due means used , and pains taken with him , to convince him of his abominable error ; and yet if he remains obstinate , he must be delivered up to satan ; that is , the righteous censure of the church must pass upon him , as in the case of other notorious crimes . heresy is a work of the flesh : and hence some conceive such ought to be punished by the civil magistrate . quest. what is an admonition ? answ. it is a faithful endeavour to convict a person of a fault both as to matter of fact , and his duty thereupon , charging it on his conscience in the name of the lord jesus with all wisdom and authority . quest. what is a church admonition ? answ. when an offending brother rejecting private admonition by one , or by two or three persons ; the complaint being brought to the church by the elder , the offending member is rebuked and exhorted in the name of the lord jesus to due repentance ; and if convicted , and he repents , the church forgives him , otherwise casts him out , as i before shewed . quest. may a church admit a member of another congregation to have communion with them , without an orderly receiving him as a member ? answ. if the person is well known by some of the church , and that he is an orderly member of 〈◊〉 church of the same faith , he being occasionally cast among them ▪ they may admit him to transie●● communion for that time ; but i● he abides in that town or city remote to the church to whom he belongs , he ought to have his regular dismission , and so be delivered up to the care and watch of the church where he desires to communicate . quest. if an excommunicated person hath obtained of god true repentance , and desires to be restored to the church , what is the manner of his reception ? answ. upon his serious , solemn and publick acknowledgment thereof before the church , and due satisfaction according to the nature of his offence being given , the elder solemnly proceeds and declares in the name of the lord jesus , that the sentence which a.b. was laid under ( upon his unfeigned repentance ) is taken off , and that he is received again a as member , &c. to the praise and glory of god. q. how ought a pastor to be ●●●lt withal , if he to the knowledge of the church , or any mem●ers thereof , walketh disorderly , ●nd unworthily of his sacred of●ice , and membership ? take the answer of another author here . answ. ' those members , to whom this is manifestly known , ought to go to him privately , and unknown to any others , ( and with the spirit of meekness , in great humility ) lay his evil before him , and intreat him as a father , and not rebuke him as there equal , much less as their inferiour ; and if they gain upon him , then to receive him into their former affection and esteem , for ever hiding it from all others . but if after all tender intreaties , he prove refractory and obstinate , then to bring him before the church , and there to deal with him ; they having two or three witnesses in the face of the church , to testify matter of fact against him to their personal knowledge . 2. but before he be dealt with they must appoint one from among themselves , qualifyd for the work●● a pastor , to execute the church censure against him , &c. yet n● doubt , the church may suspend him from his communion , & exercisin● of his office presently , upon hi● being fully convicted . but seeing in the multitude of counsel there i● safety , sure no church would so proceed without the advice of the presbytery , or of a sister church at least . q. suppose a member should think himself oppressed by the church ; or should be unjustly dealt with ; either withdrawn from , or excommunicated , has he no relief left him ? answ. we believe he hath relief ; and also , that there is no church infallible , but may e●● in some points of faith , as wel● as in discipline . and the way proposed , and agreed to , in a general assembly , held in london , 1692. of the elders , ministers , and messengers of our churches , we approve of , which is this ; viz. the grieved or injured person may make his application to a sister ▪ church for communion ; and that church may send some brethren in their names , to that congregation that have dealt with him , and they to see if they can possibly restore him to his place ; but if they cannot , then to report the matter charged , with the proofs , to the church that sent them : and if that congregation shall , after a full information , &c. be perswaded the person was not orderly dealt with , they may receive him into their communion . of such that cause divisions ; or vnduely separate themselves from the church . this i find is generally asserted by all congregational divines , or worthy men , i. e. that no person hath power to dismember himself : i. e. he cannot , without great sin , translate himself from one church to another ; but ought to have a dismission from that church where he is a member : provided that church is orderly constituted , nothing being wanting as to any essential of salvation ; or of church-communion : but if not , yet he ought to indeavour to get his orderly di●mission . nor is every small differenc● in some points of religion , ( o● notions of little moment , ) an● grounds for him to desire his dismission . that he cannot , nor ought no● to translate himself , see what 〈◊〉 reverend writer saith : he cannot , saith he , for many reasons : 1. it is not decent , much le● an orderly going away ; but very unmannerly , and a kind o● running away . 2. such a departure is not approved of in families , or civi● societies . 3. it destroys the relation o● pastor and people : for wha● may be done by one individua● person , may be done by all . 4. what liberty in this kin● belongs to the sheep , belongs t● the shepherd ; much more he ma● then also leave his flock at h● pleasure , without giving notice o● reason thereof to the church . 5. it is breaking covenant wit● christ , and with the congregation , and therefore a great immorality ; he being under obligation to abide stedfastly with the church ; i. e. till the church judge he hath a lawful call to go to another congregation . 6. it 's a schism : for if there be any such thing in the world , it 's of particular societies . 7. it is a despising the government of the church . 8. it is a particular member's assuming to himself the use of the keys ; or rather stealing of them . 9. there is as much reason persons should come into a church when they please , without asking consent , as depart when they please . 10. it is very evil and unkind in another church , to receive such an one , as not doing as they would , or should be dealt with . 11. such practices can issue in nothing else than the breach and confusion of all particular churches ; and make them like parishes . 12. such departures cannot be pleaded for in the least , but upon the notion of a catholick visible church , wherein all members and officers are run into one organized church , which will , and must introduce , a co-ordinate ( if not a subordinate ) pastoral government , by combination of elders , over all the churches ; and therefore by synods and classes . 13. it is like a leak in a ship , which , if not speedily stopped , will sink at last . 14. it tends to anarchy , putting an arbitrary power in ev'ry member . 15. it breaks all bonds of love , and raiseth the greatest animosities between bretheren and churches . 16. it is a great argument of some guilt lying-on the party . thus the dr. again he saith , it is no more in the just power of a particular member to dissolve his church-relation , than in a man to kill himself : but by his said withdrawment he doth schismatically rend himself from his communion , and so separate himself sinfully . ★ quest. what is the just act of the church , that cloathes this irregular separation , with the formality as it were of an excomcommunication . he answers . ( calling ) this a mixt excommunication i. e. originally proceeding from , and consists in , the act of the brother himself , and is the formality of his offence ; upon which proceeds the just and unviolable act of the church . the judgment of the church publickly declared by the elder of the congregation ; as the dr. words it ; viz. that a. b. having so and so irregularly and sinfully withdrawn himself from the communion of the congregation , we do now adjudge him a non-member , and one that is not to communicate with the church , in the special ordinances of communion , till due satisfaction is given by him . yet we believe , as the dr's opinion is , that a church may , ( if they find the case to be warranted by the word of god ; or as it may be circumstanced ) give a dismission to a member , when insisted on , to another regular church , tho not in every case of small offence , or dissent in some small points of different notions , or from prejudice ; for , that may tend soon to dissolve any church : for what church is it , where every member is of one mind in every particular case and thing about notions of religion ? and such that make divisions , and cause schisms , or discord among brethren , to disturb the peace of the church , if they cannot be reclaimed , must be marked , and dealt with as great offenders : it being one of those things that god hates , and is an abomination to him . quest. what is a full and lawful dismission of a member to another church , upon his removing his habitation , or on other warranted cases . answ. vve answer a letter testimonial , or recommendation of the person ; and if he intends to abide there wholly , to give him up to that communion , and fellowship , to be watched over in the lord. of disorders , or causes of discords , and how to be prevented , corrected , and removed . i. one cause of discord is , through the ignorance in some members of the rules of discipline , and right government ; particularly when that rule in matth. 18. is not followed . but one person ●●kes up an offence against another , and speaks , of it to this or that person , before he hath , told the brother offending , of it ; which is a paspable sin , and a direct violation of christ's holy precept : and such must , as offenders themselves , be in a gospel way dealt with . to prevent this , the discipline , of the church should be taught ; and the members informed of their duties . ii another thing that causes trouble and disorder in a church , is want of love , and tender affections to one another ; as also not having a full sight and sense of the great evil of breaking the bonds of peace , and vnity : o that all would lay this abominable evil to heart , how base a thing it is to break the peace of a private family , or neighbourhood ; but much more sinful to disturb the peace of the church of the living god , and break the bonds of the vnity thereof . behold , how good , and how pleasant it is , for brethren to dwell together in vnity ! but , o how ugly and hateful is the contrary ! iii. another disorderly practice is this , when one member or another knows of some sinful act , or evils done by one or more members , and they conceal it ; or do not act according to the rule ; pretending they would not be lookt upon as contentious persons : but hereby they may become guilty of other mens sins , and also suffer the name of god , and the church , to lye under reproach , and all thro their neglect . this is a great iniquity . iv. when an elder , or church shall know that some persons are scandalous in their lives , or hereretical in judgment , and yet shall bear or connive with them . v. when members take liberty to hear at other places , when the church is assembled to worship god : this is nothing less than a breaking their covenant with the church , and may soon dissolve any church : for by the same rule , one may take that liberty , another ; nay , every member may . moreover , it casts a contempt upon the ministery of the church , and tends to cause such who are hearers to draw off , and to be disaffected with the doctrine taught in the church , ( they knowing these dissenters do belong unto it . ) i exhort therefore , in the name of christ , this may be prevented : and any of you that know who they are , that take this liberty , pray discover them to the church . we lay no restraint upon our members from hearing such , who are sound in the faith at other times . vi. the liberty that some take to hear men that are corrupt in their judgments ; and so take in unsound notions , and also strive to distil them into the minds of others , as if they were of great importance . alas , how many are corrupted in these days , with arminianism , socinianism , and what not ! this causes great trouble and disorder . vii . when one church shall receive a member or members of another congregation without their consent or knowledge : nay such that are disorderly and may be loose livers , or cast out for immorality ; or persons filled with prejudice without cause . this is enough to make men atheists , or contemn all church authority , and religion : for hath not one regular church as great authority from christ as another . viii . another disorder is , when members are received without the general consent of the church ; or before good satisfaction is taken of their godly lives , and conversations : or when a church is too remiss in the reception of her members . ix . another disorder is , when a church shall receive a charge against a member , ( it being an offence between brother and brother ) before an orderly proceed has been made by the offended person . x. when judgment passes with partiality ; some are connived at , out of favour or affection : levi was not to know his father or mother in judgment . xi . when members do not constantly and early attend our publick assemblies , and the worship of god on the lord's-day especially , but are remiss in that matter : this is a great evil. xii . when part of a church shall meet together as dissatisfied , to consult church-matters , without the knowledge or consent of the church , or pastor : this is disorderly , and tends to division ; and such should be marked . xiii . another thing that tends to disquiet the peace of the church is , when there are any undue heats of spirit , or passion shewed in the pastor , or others , in managing the discipline of the church . have we not found by experience the sad effect of this ? therefore things must be always managed with coolness , and sweetness of spirit , and moderation ; every brother having liberty to speak his mind , and not to be interrupted , until he has done ; nor above one speak at once . xiv . when one brother or more dissents in the sentiments of their minds from the church , in any matters circumstantial ; either in repect of faith , practice , or discipline , and will not submit to the majority , but raise feuds ; nay , will rend themselves from the church , rather than consent . i quaery , what reason , or ground , hath any man to refuse communion with a church that christ hath not left , but hath communion with ? xv. when any member shall divulge , or make known to persons , not of the congregation , nor being concerned in those matters what is done in church-meetings , the church in this respect ( as well as in others ) is to be as a garden inclosed , a spring shut up , a fountain sealed . this oft times occasions great grief , and the disorderly person should be detected . is it not a shame to any of a private family , to divulge the secrets of the family ? but far greater shame do these expose themselves unto . xvi . another disorderly practice is this ; viz. when a member shall suggest , and seem ●o insinuate into the minds of other members some evil against their pastor , yet will not declare what it is ; and may only be evil surmisings , & out of prejudice ; and yet refuses to acquaint the pastor with what it is : this is very abominable , and a palpable violation of the rule of the gospel , and duty of members to their minister . such a person ought to be severely rebuk'd , and if he confess not his evils , and manifesteth unfeigned repentance , to be dealt with farther . moreover , it is a great evil in another to hear such base ▪ insinuations , and neither rebuke the accuser , and so discharge his duty , nor take two or three more to bring the person to repentance . if he deal thus by a private brother , it is a great evil , but far worse to an elder , whose name and honour , ought with all care and justice , to be kept up , as being more sacred . xvii . another disorderly practice is , ( which causes much trouble ) when the publick charges of a church are not equally born ; but some too much burdened , when others do but little or nothing . and also , when every one does not contribute to the poor , as god has blessed them , on every lord's day , or first day of the week , as he hath commanded . xviii . another disorder is this ▪ when members refuse to communicate with the church at the lord's table , because some person , or persons , they think are guilty of evil , and yet they have not proceeded with them according to rule : these either excommunicate the church , or themselves , or those persons at least , they censure unwarrantably . i beseech you for christ's sake , that this may never be any more among you : you ought not to deal thus with them ; or refuse your communion , ( tho faulty ) until the church has dismember'd , or withdrawn from them ; or at least suspended them . xix . when one member , shall believe , or receive a report against another , before he knows the truth of the matter . xx. when an accusation is brought against an elder , contrary to the rule , which ought not be without two or three witnesses , as to the matter of fact. xxi . when the word of god is not carefully attended upon , on week , or lecture-days , by the members generally ; tho the said meeting being appointed by the whole church . xxii . vvhen days of prayer and fasting , and of publick thanksgiving , or when days of disciplining are not generally attended upon . lastly , vvhen gifted brethren are not duely encouraged : first privately to exercise their gifts ; and being in time approved , called forth to preach or exercise in the church : and when encouragment is not given to bestow learning also upon them , for their better accomplishment . what will become of the churches in time to come , if this be not prevented with speed ? what tends to the glory and beauty of a true gospel-church . i. that which primarily tends to the glory of a church is the foundation on which it is built , which is jesus christ. now this is a blessed and glorious fou●dation . i. in respect of god the father , who laid this foundation in his eternal purpose , counsel , and decree ; behold i lay in sion ; and this is as the result of his infinite wisdom , love , and mercy to his elect. ii. in respect had unto christ himself , who is this foundation . 1. he is a suitable foundation . 1. in respect to the glory of god in all his attributes . 2ly . in respect to our good ; he answering all our wants , who are united to him , or built upon him . 3. in respect of the preciousness of christ , as a foundation ; a stone ; a precious stone . 4. in respect to the durableness of it i. e. a tryed stone ; a sure foundation . brethren , a foundation of a house must of necessity be laid ; no house can be built without a good foundation , that will stand firm , and unmovable ; it is the strongest part of the building , and it beareth all the weight of the whole superstructure : so doth jesus christ. iii. the beauty and glory of a true church , consists in the true and regular , or right constitution of it ; nothing being wanting that is essential to it , upon this account . iv. it consisteth in the excellency , glory , and suitableness of the materials 't is built with , answering to the foundation ; all precious stones , lively stones ; all regenerated persons . v. in that all the stones be well hewed and squared ; all made fit for the building , before laid in . vvere it thus , there would not be so great a noise of the hammer and ax , in church discipline , as indeed there is . it was not thus in the type , i mean in solomon's temple . vi. it 's beauty and glory consisteth in that all the stones being not only united by the spirit , to christ the foundation , but also to one another in sincere love and affection . in whom all the building , fitly framed together , groweth up unto an holy temple in the lord. vii . it consisteth in the holiness and purity of the lives and conversations of all the members : be ye holy , for i am holy . holiness becomes thy house , o god , for ever . viii . it consisteth in that sweet union and concord that ought to be in the church ; all like the horse : in pharoah's chariot , drawing together : endeavouring to keep the vnity of the spirit in the bond of peace . by this shall all men know ye are my disciples , if you love one another . ix . in their having the divine presence with them : or when the glory of god fills his temple . x. in keeping out all unsanctified , or unclean persons , or if they get in , to purge them out by a strict and holy discipline , or else it will soon loose it's beauty . xi . in that zeal and equality that should be shewed in all to keep up the honour , peace , and comfort of the church , and the ministery thereof . xii . in the administration of right discipline ; to see no neglect nor delaying of justice , thro carelesness , or partiality : ( 1. ) no ways partaking of other mens sins ; which may be done by conniving at it ; ( 2. ) by lessening or extenuating of it ( 3. ) by countenancing , or any ways incouraging any in sin. ( 4. ) by not restoring a brother , that confesses his sin when overtaken . ( 5. ) not bringing in a just charge against an offender , nor rebuking him ; and yet have communion with him . 2ly . not to wrest judgment , out of it's true and right channel : nor to inflict a greater censure than the law of christ requires on any . 3ly . timely to acquit , and discharge a penitent person . 4ly . not to do any thing on● of prejudice , but in love , and bowels , of affection ; and to do all in christ's name , or by his authority . xiii . to sympathize with the afflicted , succour the tempted , and relieving the poor and distressed : rejoicing with them that rejoice , and mourning with them that mourn . xiv . to speak evil of no man ; not only speaking no evil of their brethren , but of no man , to his hurt or injury , detracting from his worth and honour : see sirach , whether it be to friend or foe , talk not of other men's lives ; and if thou canst , without offence , reveal them not . we must not discourse his faults , unless in a gospel-way ; and that too , to amend the person , and not out of passion , or prejudice to expose him , but out of love to his soul. yet we may speak of the evils of others , ( 1. ) when called to do it , in a legal or gospel-way ; and it is a sin then to conceal his crime . ( 2. ) or when it is to prevent another , who is in danger to be infected by his company , or ill example . ( 3. ) or in our own just defence and vindication . moreover , consider the evil of reproaching of others . first as to the causes why some do it . i. one cause is from want of love : nay from malice ; and hatred . 1. from the baseness , ill nature , and cruelty of the accusers disposition . 2. 't is occasioned from that itch , of talking and medling in the affairs of other men. 3. or perhaps to raise their own esteem and honour , some degrade their brother ; which is abominable . consider it is theft , or robbery ; nay , and 't is worse than to rob a man of his goods , because thou takest away that which perhaps thou canst not restore again . moreover consider , that such who reproach others , lay themselves open thereby to reproach . 3. moreover know , he that receives , or hearkens to the scandal , is as guilty as the accuser ; he is like a person that receives stolen goods , and so is as bad as the thief . this being one of the grand and notorious evils of these days i speak the more to it . if you abominate this evil , and avoid it , you will shine in grace and vertue the more clearly . alas , in our days , some that would be thought to be great professers stick not to vilifie christ's ministers , even some of the best of men ; and are so full of malice , they care not what wrong they do to their brethren , nor to the truth it self , or interest of god , and so expose themselves to a lasting shame , and their spirit , and practice , to an abhorrance ; they are like cursed cham who discovered his fathers nakedness ; these persons violate all laws , both humane and divine . 3ly . when they bear one anothers burdens , and so fulfil the law of christ : and that you may do this ; consider where is that church in which there are no burdens to be born. [ motives thus to do . ] 1. consider what a burden jesus christ hath born for thee . 2. what a burden thou hast to bear of thine own . 3. mayst not thou in some things be a burden to thy brethren ? 4. wouldst thou not have others bear thy burden . 5. may not god cause thee to bear a more heavy burden ; because thou canst not bear thy brother's ? 6. 't is a fulfilling the law of love , nay the law of christ. xv. the glory and beauty of a congregation , is the more manifest , when the authority of the church , and the dignity of the pastoral office is maintained . how great was the evil of the gain-saying of corah ? the apostles speaks of some that are selfwilled , presumptious , who are not afraid to speak evil of dignities . god has put a glory and high dignity upon the church and in it's authority and power ; whom ye bind on earth shall be bound in heaven . moreover , the pastoral office , is an office of dignity ; they are called rulers , angels , fathers : for any therefore to cast contempt on the church , or pastor , is a great evil , and a reproach to christ , and tends to disorder and confusion . lastly , when holiness , righteousness , charity , humility , and all true piety is prest upon the consciences of every member , and appears in the minister : also that all strive to excell therein , with their uttermost care and diligences . the conclusion . know my brethren , that god loves the gates of sion more than all the dwelling places of jacob : therefore the publick worship of god ought to be preferred before private . 1. this supposeth there must be a visible church . 2. and that they frequently meet together to worship god. 3. that they have an orderly ministery and one ordained elder , at least , to administer all publick ordinances . 4. moreover , that all persons have free liberty to assemble with the church , and to partake of all ordinances , save those which peculiarly belong to the church ; as the lord's supper , holy discipline , and days of prayer and fasting . then the church of old separated themselves from all strangers . yet others may attend on all other publick ordinances with the church ; as publick prayer , reading , and preaching the word and in singing god's praises , as hath formerly been proved . may others my brethren , join in prayer with us , and not praise god with us ▪ but , o my brethren ! let me beseech you to shew your high value , and estimation for the publick worship of god. [ motives hereunto . ] 1. since god prefers it thus : or has so great esteem of his publick worship . 2. because he is said to dwell in sion ; it is his habitation for ever . the place , where his honour dwells . 3. here god is most glorified . in his temple every one speaks of his glory ; my praise shall be in the great congregation . 4. here is most of god's gracious presence ( as one observes it . ) 1. his effectual presence , in all places ; where i record my name , thither will i come ; and there will i bless thee . 2. here is more of his intimate presence : where two or three are gathered together in my name , there am i in the midst of them . he walks in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks . 5. here are the clearest manifestations of god's beauty , which made holy david desire to dwell there for ever . see the appearance of christ to the churches , rev , 2. cap. 3. 6. in that it is said , that those that should be saved , in the apostles days , god added unto the church . 7. here is most spiritual advantage to be got : here the dews of hermon fall , they descend upon the mountain of sion . here god commands the blessing , even life for evermore . i will abundantly bless her provision , and satisfie her poor with bread. here david's doubt was resolved . 8. here you received your first spiritual breath , or life , many souls are daily born to christ. that good which is most diffusive , is to be preferred ; but that good which most partake of , is most diffusive ; o magnifie the lord with me ! let us exalt his name together . live coals separated , soon die . 9. brethren ( as a worthy divine observes ) the church in her publick worship is the nearest resemblance of heaven , especially in singing god's praises . what esteem also had god's worthies of old , for god's publick vvorship ? my soul longeth , yea , even fainteth for the courts of the lord. how amiable are thy tabernacles , o lord of hosts ! 10. see how the promises of god run to sion , or to his church : he will bless thee out of sion . o let nothing discourage you in your waiting at the posts of christ's door : david desired rather to be a door-keeper in the house of god , than to dwell in the tents of wickedness . yet nevertheless do not neglect , for the lord's sake , private devotion ; viz. secret , and family-prayer : o pray to be fitted for publick worship ! come out of your closets to the church ? what signifies all you do in publick , if you are not such that keep up the worship of god in your own families ? o neglect not prayer , reading , and meditation ! and take care also to educate and catechise your children ; and live as men and women that are dead to this world : and walk for the lord's sake as becomes the gospel . see that zeal and knowledge go together ; a good conversation . and a good doctrine go together these two together , are better than one. brethren , he that makes the vvord of god his rule , in whatsoever he doth , and the glory of god his end in what he doth , shall have the spirit of god to be his strength . this is like solomon's three-fold cord ; that will be one , or it will be three ; it can't be two ; not can it be broken . the solemn covenant of the church of christ , meeting in white-street , at it's constitution ; june , 5. 1696. we who desire to walk together in the fear of the lord , do , through the assistance of his holy spirit , profess our deep and serious humiliation for all our transgressions . and we do also solemnly , in the presence of god , of each other , in the sense of our own vnworthiness , give up our selves to the lord , in a church state according to the apostolical constitution that he may be our god , and we may be his people , through the everlasting covenant of his free grace , in which alone we hope to be accepted by him , through his blessed son jesus christ , whom we take to be our high priest , to justify and sanctify us , and our prophet to teach us ; and to subject to him as our law-giver , and the king of saints ; and to conform to all his holy laws and ordinances , for our growth , establishment , and consolation ; that we may be as a holy spouse unto him , and serve him in our generation , and wait for his second appearance , as our glorious bridegroom . being fully satisfied in the way o● church-communion , and the trut● of grace in some good measure upon one anothers spirits , we do solemnly join our selves together in a holy vnion and fellowship , humbly submitting to the discipline of the gospel , and all holy duties required of ● people in such a spiritual relation . 1. we do promise and ingage to walk in all holiness , godliness , humility , and brotherly love , as much as in us lieth to render our communion delightful to god , comfortable to our selves , and lovely to the res● of the lord's people . 2. we do promise to watch over each others conversations , and not to suffer sin upon one another , so far ● god shall discover it to us , or any ● us ; and to stir up one another to l●●● and good works ; to warn , rebuke , a●● admonish one another with meekness according to the rules left to us of christ in that behalf . 3. we do promise in an especial manner to pray for one another , and for the glory and increase of this church , and for the presence of god in it , and the pouring forth of his spirit on it , and his protection over it to his glory . 4. we do promise to bear one anothers burdens , to cleave to one another , and to have a fellow-feeling with one another , in all conditions both outward and inward , as god in his providence shall cast any of us into 5. we do promise to bear with one anothers weakeness , failings , and infirmities , with much tenderness , not discovering to any without the church , nor any within , unless according to christ's rule , and the order of the gospel provided in that case . 6. we do promise to strive together for the truths of the gospel , and purity of god's ways and ordinances , to avoid causes , and causers of division , endeavouring to keep the vnity of the spirit in the bond of peace ; ephes. 4 3. 7 we do promise to meet together on lord's days , and ●●●ther times , as the lord shall gi●● 〈◊〉 opportunities , to serve and glorify god in the 〈◊〉 his worship , to edify one 〈…〉 and to contrive the g●●● 〈…〉 church . 8. we do promise according to our ability ( or as god shall bless us with the good things of this world ) to communicate to our pastor of minister , god having ordained that they that preach the gospel should live of the gospel . ( and now can any thing lay a greater obligation upon the conscience , than this covenant , what then is the sin of such who violate it ? ) these and all other gospel-duties we humbly submit unto , promising and purposing to perform , not in our own strength , being consciou● of our own weakness , but in th● power , and strength of the blessed god , whose we are , and whom we desire to serve : to whom be glory now and for evermore . amen . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a47522-e320 act. 2.41 , 42 , 43 , 44. act. 8.14 . act. 19.4 , 5 , 6. eph. ● . 1 , 2. and ● . 12 , 13 , 19. col. 1.2 , 4 , 12. 1 pet. 2.5 . act. 5.13 , 14. rom. 6.17 . heb. 6.1 , 2. rom. 6.3 , 4 , 5. 1 pet. 2.4 , 5 , 6. eph. 2.20 , 21. col. 2.19 . psa. 66.16 . act. 11.4 , 5 , 6 , &c. 23 , 24. 1 pet. 3.15 . 2 cor. 8.5 . jer. 50.5 . heb. 13.17 . 1 pet. 5.1 , 2. of an organical church . 1 tim. 3.2 , 3 , 4 , 5 , 6 , 7. tit. 1.5 , 6 , 7 , 8 , 9 , 10. tit. 1.7 . act. 6.6 . 2 tim. 5.22 . notes for div a47522-e960 1 cor. 9.16 , 17. act. 20.31 35. 2 tim. 2.15 . 2 cor. 4.1 , 2. 1 tim. 3. jer. 3.15 . 2 tim. 4.2 . 2 cor. 5.19 act. 20.20 , 27. pro. 27.23 . 1 thess. 5.15 . 1 tim. 4.12 . jam. 2.4 . 1 tim. 5.21 . 1 pet. 5.3 . and 5.6 . notes for div a47522-e1430 the deacons work. act. 6.1 , 2 , 3 , 5 , 7 , 8 , 9 , 10. acts 5.7 , 8 , 9 , 10. 1 cor. 16.2 . acts 6.1 . notes for div a47522-e1570 1 thess. ● . 25 . heb. 13.18 . notes for div a47522-e1700 2 cor. 2.16 . 1 cor. 16.9 . 1 tim. 4.3 , 4 , 5. 2 cor. 3.19 , 20. 1 thess. 3.13 . 1 tim. 5.17 . heb. 13.5 , 17. jer. 20.10 . zeph. 2.8 . 2 cor. 11.21 , 23. gal. 6.6 . 1 cor. 9.7 , 8. ver . 14. ver . 11. mat. 10.9 , 10. see dr. owen ' s eshod , p. 21 , 22. 2 tim. 4.16 , 17 , 18. eshod , pag. 27. act. 14.27 . rom. 12.8 . 1 tim. 3. tit. 1.5 , 6 , 7. act. 20.17 , 27 , 28. tit. 1.5 . 1 cor. 14.40 . 1 tim. 3. 1 cor. 14.33 , 38. notes for div a47522-e2820 of the reception of members into the church . psal. 66.16 . acts 9.26 , 27. 3 joh. 9 , 10. rom. 14.17 , 19. 1 pet. 3.15 . 1 cor. 14.40 . rom. 15.1 , 2. acts 11.2 , 3 , 4 , 5 , 6. to whom members join themselves . act. 2.47 . & 5.11 , 15. notes for div a47522-e3170 a monthly day to be appointed for discipline . the power of the keys committed to the church . acts 16.5 . 2 thess. 1.3 , 6. dr. chauncy on the power of the keys , p. 335. 1 cor. 5.4 , 5. 2 thess. 3.6 , 14. 1 cor. 5.7 . notes for div a47522-e3490 of church-censures . 2 thess. 3.11 , 12. psa. 15.1 , 3. 2 thess. 3.12 . 2 thess. 2.6 . disorderly members only to be withdrawn from . 2 thess. 2.14 , 15. heb. 12.25 . notes for div a47522-e3810 of private offences between brother and brother . mat. 18.15 . mat. 18.16 . dr. chauncy , p. 345. the sisters are not to vote in the church . the act of excommunication or church-censure . 1 cor. 5. pag. 345. mat. 18.17 . notes for div a47522-e4160 of scandalous crimes or evils . the church censure on notorious offenders is the same with that in mat. 18. pag. 343. 1. tim. 5.24 . act. 5.11 . jud. 23. 1. cor. 5. 2 cor. 7.11 . numb . 12.14 . notes for div a47522-e4500 of dealing with hereticks . see pool's annot. on 1 cor. 11.19 . 2 pet. 2.1 . who is an heretick . tit. 3.10 . 1 tim. 1.19 , 20. what an admonition is . the manner of the reception of a communicate person . mat. 13.18 . 2 cor. 2.6 , 7. 1 tim. 5. how to proceed against a scandalous pastor . ● see not if they have none fitly qualified , but the church may cast him out , relief for a member unjustly dealt with . notes for div a47522-e5410 the cause of disorders in the church . rom , 6 , 17. heb , 6 , 2 , 3 dr. chauncy pag. 337. phil. 1.27 . tit. 2.10 . the great danger of making a rent in a church . rom. 1.31 . acts 2.42 . 1 cor. 12.6 , 14.7.5.1.20 , 21 , 25. heb. 10.25 . jude , 19. ☞ ★ jude 19. 1 cor. 1.10 . & 3.3 . & 11.18 . heb. 10.22.23 , 25. mixt excommunication . rom. 19.17 , 18. 2 thess. 3.6.14 , 15. jude 12. let none call the church a prison , since all do voluntarily covenant with it , and 't is dangerous to break christ's bonds . 2 timo. 2.23 . 2 thess. 3.14 . prov. 6.16 . of a let●er of re●ommenda●ion . rom 16.1.2 . acts 18.27 . notes for div a47522-e6440 mat. 18.15 . disorders corrected & removed . iohn 13.12 , 17 , eph. 4.3 . heb. 13.1 . eph. 4.31 , 32. & cap. 5.2 . psal. 132.1 . jam. 3.16 . acts 5.3.8 . levit. 19.17 . acts , 4.23 . pet. 2.2 . acts 9.27 . mat. 18.15 . psal. 63.1 . cant. 7.12 . mark 16.1 . 1 cor. 1● 25. romans 16.17 . 2 tim. 2.25 . jude , 19. jam. 3.14.16 . cant. 4.12 . rom. 1.29 . 1 tim. 6.4 . zech. 7.10 . 1 tim. 5.19 1 timo. 5.19 . 1 cor. 8.14 . ● cor. 16.2 . math. 18. ier. 20.10 . 1 tim. 5.19 . isa. 55. ● . acts 2 , 1 , 2. acts , 10 , 33. ioel 2 , 1● . notes for div a47522-e7210 what tends to the glory of a church of christ. 1 cor. 3 , 4. isa. 28.16 . isa. 28.16 . 1 pet. 2 , 5 , 6. 1 kings 6 , 7. eph. 2.19 , 20 , 21. 1 pet , 1 , 16 , psalm 93.5 . cant. 1.9 . eph. 4.3 . exod. 20.24 . mat , 18 , 20 , 1 cor. 5.5 , 6.7 . 2 cor. 8.14 . tit. 3.2 . eccl. 19.8 . apoc. 3 iohn 9 . 1● . gen. 9.22 . gal. 6.2 . 2 gal. ● . ● . rom. 3.10 . iude , 11. numb . 22.7 , 21. 2 pet. ● . 10 rev. 2.1 . 1 tim. 3.5 . act. 23 , 5. psal. 110.3 . 1 pet. 1.25 . notes for div a47522-e8460 psal. 87.2 . neh. 1.2 . how should sinners else be converted , and the church increased . psal. 132.13 . psal. 26.8 . psal. 29.9 . exod. 20.24 . mat. 18.20 . rev. 1.13 . psal. 27.4 . acts 2.47 . psal. 132.3 . psal. 130.15 . psal. 73.16 . ●7 . psal. 87.5 . psal. 34.3 . psal. 84.1 , 2. isaiah 35. psal. 128.3 . isai. 51.3 . prov. 8.34 . psal. 26.14 . psal. 87.4 . mat. 6.6 . jer. 10.25 . eph. 6.4 . phil. 1.27 . eccl. 4.9.10.11.12.13 . notes for div a47522-e9390 ezek. 16.6 , 8. 2 cor. 8.5 . hos. 2.23 . 2 cor. 6.16 . church-communion proved . exod. 26.3.4 , 6. isa. 62.5 . psal. 122.3 . eph. 2.23 . eph. 4.16 . 1 pet. 2.5 . psal. 93.5 . isa. 55.8 . luke 1.74.75 . 2 cor. 7.1 . 1 tim. 6.11 . 2 pet. ● . 6 , 7. act. 20.19 . phil. 2.3 . ioh , 13 , 34 , and 15 , 12 , 1 pet , 1 , 22 , lev. 19 , 17 , heb , 10 , 24 , 25 , 1 thess , 5 , 14 , 15 , rom , 15 , eph. 6.18 . iam. 5.16 . col , 4 , 12. gal , 6 , 2 , heb , 12 , 12 , heb , 13 , 31 rom , 12 , 15 2 cor , 11 , 29 , 1 iohn 3.17 , 18 , gal 6 , 1 , 1 thess , 5 , 14 , rom , 15 , 12 , eph , 4 , 31 , 32 , iude , v , 3 , gal , 5 , 1 , tit , 3 , 9 , 10 , 2 iohn v , 10 , heb 3 , 10 , and 10 , 25 , mal , 3 , 16 , rom , 14 , 18 and 15 , 16 , 〈…〉 26 , ● cor , 9 , 7 , ● , 9 , -12 , 13 gal , 6 , 6 , a religious contest, or a brief account of a disputation holden at blyton in the county of lincoln between mr. william fort minister of the perochial congregation at blyton on the one part, and thomas grantham, servant to the baptised churches on the other part : whereunto is added brief animadversions upon dr. stilling-fleet his digressions about infant baptism in his book intituled, a rational account of the protestant religion, &c., in both which are shewed that the generality of the nations now professing christianity are as yet unbaptised into christ : 1. because their sprinkling and crossing the fore-head is not the right way of baptising, 2. because infants ought not to be baptised. grantham, thomas, 1634-1692. 1674 approx. 93 kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from 21 1-bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : 2009-03 (eebo-tcp phase 1). a41787 wing g1544 estc r39430 18410482 ocm 18410482 107507 this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons 0 1.0 universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase 1, no. a41787) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set 107507) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, 1641-1700 ; 1634:6) a religious contest, or a brief account of a disputation holden at blyton in the county of lincoln between mr. william fort minister of the perochial congregation at blyton on the one part, and thomas grantham, servant to the baptised churches on the other part : whereunto is added brief animadversions upon dr. stilling-fleet his digressions about infant baptism in his book intituled, a rational account of the protestant religion, &c., in both which are shewed that the generality of the nations now professing christianity are as yet unbaptised into christ : 1. because their sprinkling and crossing the fore-head is not the right way of baptising, 2. because infants ought not to be baptised. grantham, thomas, 1634-1692. [6], 34 p. [s.n.], london printed : 1674. special t.p.: brief animadversions upon dr. stillingfleet's digressions about the baptising of infants / by thomas grantham. london : [s.n.], 1674. "epistle to the reader" signed: tho. grantham. errata: p. 34. imperfect : slightly faded, with print show-through. reproduction of original in the british library. created by converting tcp files to tei p5 using tcp2tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between 1473 and 1700 available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities 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errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level 4 of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p5, characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng fort, william. stillingfleet, edward, 1635-1699. -rational account of the grounds of protestant religion. baptists -england. infant baptism. 2007-11 tcp assigned for keying and markup 2007-11 apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images 2008-03 elspeth healey sampled and proofread 2008-03 elspeth healey text and markup reviewed and edited 2008-09 pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a religious contest . or , a brief account of a disputation holden at blyton in the county of lincoln . between mr. william fort minister of the perochial congregation at blyton on the one part , and thomas grantham , servant to the baptised churches on the other part . whereunto is added brief animadversions upon dr. stilling-fleet his digressions about infant baptism : in his book intituled , a rational account of the protestant religion , &c. in both which are shewed that the generality of the nations now professing christianity , are as yet unbaptised into christ . 1. because their sprinkling and crossing the fore-head is not the right way of baptising . 2. because infants ought not to be baptised . acts 2. 38. repent and be baptised every one of you in the name of jesus christ for the remission of sins , and ye shall receive the gifts of the holy ghost . mark 16. 16. he that believeth and is baptised shall be saved . london , printed in the year , 1674. the epistle dedicatory , to mr. vvilliam fort and the rest of the brethren and assistants at the dispute holden by his appointment at blyton the 18 day of september , 1673. reverend sirs i do seriously account it a part of my infelicity to see the distractions and divisions among us touching the worship of almighty god , and his holy child jesus , whom i trust we do all love and fear , and therefore it is the greater pitty that we who differ not about the godhead , should at all differ about the things which pertain to his blessed service . may it therefore please god to move upon all our hearts to consider ( laying aside all carnal interest ) where the causes on either side are given . and sith , perhaps we are more quick sighted about each others mistakes then our own , give me leave without offence , to shew briefly what i conceive is really amiss on your part , and i shall as willingly consider what may fairly be objected concerning us against that confideration . first then , when i look upon your reformation from papall errors , i cannot but heartily congratulate the piety and zeal of your martyrs , &c. specially in their being instrumental to bring that sacred institute of the lords table from under manifold corruptions wherewith it had been incumbred in the darkness of popery : but yet withall i must needs condole their shortness in not looking with like diligence to the pristine institution of sacred baptism , by which oversight we which survive them , are the more exposed to our present distractions , and i think i may say in this , as david in another case , because they did it not at the first therefore the lord made a breach upon us . secondly , when i consider the articles of the church of england , i think it very strange that we who agree so firmly in them all save three or four , and differ but in some points touching them neither , should not consider of some expedient to remove what obstructs our intire agreement . may it therefore please your bishops , with their brethren , to admit of a friendly conference with our bishops and pastors , to try if by any means away may be found to bring us to brotherly concord , for whatsoever hath happened in the heat of disputation , or fallen from the pens of passionate writers on eitherside , yet be pleased to know , we are no haters of the pious protestant , but sincere lovers of them and the truths by them maintain'd , as indeed we ought to be of all who love christ , though differing from us in many things . and though it is true we hold a separation from you in our congregations , yet we do this of necessity , because none among your leaders will treat with us about the removal of those things which do offend . i confess , to reform what is amiss on your part touching sacred baptism is a difficult undertaking , yet not more difficult then it was to reform what was amiss in the other sacrament , whether we consider their errors , who for some hundreds of years , gave it to infants , or theirs who by their transubstantiation changed the very nature of the sacrament ▪ but if no endeavouts of this kind must be admitted , then am i out of hopes ever to see christian concord among us , for those coercive ways ( which some incline to ) will but aggravate the breach ( which is too great already ) & render your cause the more suspitious , and consequently more confirm us in our perswasion against your way . now the lord himself direct us all to the way of truth and peace in all things ; so prays ; yours to love and serve you in christ as far as permitted . t. g. the epistle to the reader , shewing the occasion of this disputation . courteous reader . disputation is not more hurtful when needless , then profitable when necessity calls for it . and hereupon our lord christ himself was frequent in disputes about his doctrine . this way went the apostles to try the matter in question about circumcision , acts 15. and paul defended christianity by disputing dayly in the school of one tyrannus acts 19. the occasion of the dispute at blyton ▪ september 18. 1673. was on this wise . a small remnant of baptized christians meeting in that town , it pleased mr. fort minister of the perochial congregation there , to come to their meetings , and to hinder their proceedings , so that they could not edifie one another , as their manner was . and this he did many times , and told them he was resolved they should not meet in that town . and when the baptists endeavoured to maintain their principles , he slighted them , saying they were foolish men not fit to discourse of religion because they understood not the rules of logick , &c. but he bad them find him a man that had brains , and understood the languages , and knew logick and he would dispute with him . they told him they had few that understood these things . but he not ceasing to disturb them they consented to his motion , and a day was appointed , and because the baptists had not a convenient place , mr. fort provided a large room , and sent for them to come thither , where himself with two other ministers and divers of the neighbourhood were met togeth●r . for the account of the dispute it self , take this information that much of it is here reported according to what memory could serve in upon recogitation , but yet be assured of this that for substance it is not altered by this account , the arguments varying very little , or not at all from the very terms wherein they were expressed in the dispute , and mr. fort 's answers , rendred rather more advantagious , then in their first delivery . if it seem strange that a person of such learning and gravity , should answer and argue with no more advantage to his cause , the reader may take notice that god hath said , he will confound the wisdom of the wise , and bring to nought the understanding of the prudent and when he doth this , then where is the scribe , where is the disputer of this world. now whereas in this dispute i have used th● method which the learned do more affect , then other ways of disputing , i desire the reader to take notice , that i do not in any thing that i have said pretend at all to the parts of a scholar , being a person of no education that way , howbeit , having obtained mercy of the lord , to know somewhat of his blessed will , according to his word , i am therefore willing to appear in the defence of his truth when called thereunto . finally , my hearts desire and prayer to god , is , that though our present differences in religion , be matter of infelicity , yet sith we all agree , that christianity is the only true religion in the world , that we therefore may ●ndeavour to maintain the great engag●ment of charity , and m●deration , and then we may expect that the god of truth and peace , will pitty us under our mistakes , and also lead us into the enjoyment of that gracious promise , jer. 32. 39. even to give us one heart , and one way . so be it . tho. grantham . a religious contest , or , an account of the dispute held at blyton the eighteen of september , 1673. the people being come together , mr. fort applying himself to thomas grantham began after this manner . sir , i suppose that you are come hither to defend some unlawful meetings in this place which i have laboured to suppress , now that which i have to charge them with is this : that their meetings are unlawful . 2. that their way of anabaptism is sinful , and 3. i will prove that our way of baptizing infants is lawful . tho. grantham . sir , i came not hither to defend any mans sayings or doings , but to vindicate the truth of the gospel ( as much as in me is ) so far as i am concerned , and for anabaptism i am against it as much as you , nor do i think it needful to dispute about the baptizing of infants till some body be found to baptise them , for i think that there is no man in england that baptiseth any infants . mr. fort. why this is a strange thing ! can any thing be more plain , then that which is de facto , and here the three priests fell a laughing . t. grantham . gentlemen , you have no cause to laugh as yet , for i say ( and shall shew in due place ) that neither you nor any in the world that i can hear of does baptise any infants . mr. fort. i tell you friend we do baptise them and will you deny a thing that is de facto , and here they fell a laughing again . t. grantham . gentlemen , this doth not become the gravity of your persons , did you come hither to make sport ? but because you make this so strange , give me leave to put you in mind of the apostles saying , 1 cor. 11. this is not to eat the lords supper , and yet the corinthians did celebrate the lords supper as they supposed in the bread and wine which they set apart , but going from the institution of christ , the apostle denies it to be the lords supper . i therefore say you do not baptise at all , because you have lost the institution of christ . mr. fort. well , well , but first let me hear what you have to say for these unlawful meetings which i have endeavoured to suppress . t. grantham . i am not so much a stranger to the meetings you speak of , but i think they may be defended , but yet i suppose it the best way to try our principles , for if they be good , our meetings to promote good principles need not offend you , and truly till this day , i did not understand that our meetings should be the subject of our dispute . mr. fort. i perceive those that have informed you have done you some injury , for i did say , that your meetings were unlawful and therefore i opposed them , and seeing you have not premidated this , i will not surprize you , but will consent to dispute their principles . t. grantham . sir i thank you for that , and i desire that the questions may be fairly stated to contain the points in difference about the doctrine of baptism . mr. fort. well , i agree to that , and pray do you state the questions if you please . t. grantham . the questions then may be these , ( viz. ) qu. 1. whether your way of baptising , be the right way of baptising ? qu. 2. whether infants ought to be baptised ? mr. fort. well , let these be the questions , i say our way of baptisi●g i● right , and that infants ought to be baptised , and do you prove the contrary if you can . t. grantham . although you ought to prove what you affirm , yet i will accept your offer , and shall shew , that your pretended way of baptising is not the right way of baptising , and that infants ought not to be baptised , and first i argue thus . arg. 1. holy scripture doth shew what is the right way of baptising , holy scripture doth not shew sprinkling or crossing is the right way of baptising , ergo your way of baptising is not the right way of baptising , mr. fort we do not say that sprinkling or crossing is baptising , neither did i ever sprinkle any in all my life , t. g. then you contradict your brethren , whose constant practice is known to be sprinkling and crossing the fore-head , yea you contradict your own common prayer-book , for there your direction is to sprinkle and cross the infant . mr. fort. i confess our old common prayer-book did use the word sprinkle , but we have now altered it , and it is only baptise in the new common prayer-book . t. grantham , i confess reformation is no error , it seems then by your own grant your first book was faulty , and for your practise it is still the same , and i pray , as you are a schollar tell us plainly , doth the word baptise signifie to sprinkle ? m. fort. no , i do not say it doth the word that signifies sprinkling is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 t. g. in that you say well , and now pray answer to my argument , for it proves sprinkling is not the way of baptising . mr. fort. i have told you we do not say that sprinkling is baptising , neither do we make the cross any part of baptism . tho. grantham . you do certainly make the cross an appurtenance in your baptism , for you will excommunicate such as refuse to use it in baptism , and for sprinkling i appeal to this assembly , who can witness it 's the common practice of your ministry to sprinkle the fore-head , and it is remarkable that you cannot stand by your practice now it is opposed . i desire you to answer the argument . mr. fort. i have answered it for i do not sprinkle , but i always pour water upon those whom i baptise , and for my own part i was dipped , and so according to your own judgement rightly baptised . t. grantham . if you were dipped then you had more done to you then your brethren in that case , and so you are divided in your practice nor is your pouring water on the fore-head baptising and therefore answer the argument . mr. fort. here mr. fort and the other ministers spake together disowning sprinkling , and saying they did not make the cross necessary in baptism , for ( say they ) in private baptism it is not used . t. grantham . you know that the papists allow of midwife to pour water out of a glass upon the infant , which they account a valid baptism yet at other times they make their ceremonies necessary , and so do you the cross , performing in the name of the father , son and holy spirit . mr. fort. that is not so , we do not perform it in the name of the father , son , and holy spirit , therefore you wrong us . t. grantham . this is strange , for either you do it in the name of the lord , or in your own name , if you do it in your own name pray tell us so , but you answer not the argument , therefore i proceed . arg. 2. that which renders the practise of christ and his apostles supers●●ous , ●r ridiculous , is not the right way of baptising . but your pretended way of baptising renders the practice of christ and his disciples superfluous , or ridiculous , ergo. your way of baptising is not the right way of baptising . mr. fort. the minor is denyed our way of baptising doth not render the practice of christ or his disciples superfluous or ridiculous . t. grantham . the minor i evince by this demonstration , he that considers how christ and his disciples were baptised , and did baptise in rivers or places of much water and you on the other side take a little water on your finger ends , or in your hand only , must needs conclude that either they did too much , or you do too little ; now thus it is written , mat. 3 jesus when he was baptized came up streight way out of the water , mark 1. they were all baptized in the river of jordan , confessing their sins . john baptised in enon because there was much water there . phillip and the eunuch went both down into the water . now if your putting a few drops of water on the fore-head only , be sufficient then the other must needs be superfluous , yea ridiculous . mr. fort. this does not prove the minor , for we do not deny dipping , and i pray what do you mean when you say our way renders christs to be ridiculous . t. grantham . i mean a thing to be laughed at , and put the case you had occasion to wash your hands only , would it not be ridiculous to see you go into the river to do it ? even does thus your pretended way of baptising , render the way of christ ridiculous and reflects dishonour on him and his followers , as if they were not so wise as you , to know the best way to be baptized , but we are resolved to follow christ though we differ from you . mr. fort. yes , the word ridiculous doth signifie so much , but yet i deny that our practise doth reflect upon christs , for though in these hot countreys they did dip in rivers , yet it was not necessary in these colder countreys to do so , for christ hath not commanded that . t. grantham . then you confess it was the practice of the first christians to dip in rivers , and i ask you whether they did this by a command or not ? mr. fort. yes , i grant they did it by a command . t. grantham . then you have granted sufficient to overthrow your practice , and to confirm ours , unless you can also shew a command for sprinkling . mr. fort. i have told you i do not sprinkle . t. grantham . the contrary is the known practice of your ministry , and yours is little differing , i proceed to another argument . arg. 3. that which brings unavoidable confusion into the church is not the right way of baptising : but your way of baptising doth bring unavoidable confusion into the church . ergo , your way of baptising is not the right way of baptising mr. fort. our practice in baptising as we do , doth not bring confusion into the church . t. grantham . i shew the contrary thus , your way of baptising admits of as many several ways , as there are parts in a mans body ; for whether the fore-head , the breast , back , hand or foot , or some other part ought to be only sprinkled , or whether any of these may not serve , you can shew no reason , so that you thus bring confusion into the church : mr fort. the head being the most honourable part of mans body , we therefore chuse the head and think that the best . t. grantham this is only your imagination , and if i think otherwise , and so chuse the breast , you cannot shew this to be a greater errour then your own , but i proceed . arg. 4. that which renders all men uncertain whether they do the will of god or not , is not the right way of baptising , but your way of baptising doth render all men uncertain whether they do the will of god or not , ergo , your way of baptising is not the right way of baptising . mr. fort i deny that our way renders men uncertain , whether they do the will of god or not . t. g. god hath not assigned any one part of the body to be baptised , and not another , therefore no man that follows your way can tell whether he do the will of god or not , in following your way : arg. 5. that way which doth not signifie that which ought to be represented in baptism is not the right way of baptising . but your pretended way doth not signifie that which ought to be represented in baptism . ergo. your way of baptising is not the right way of baptising . mr fort. our way of baptising doth signifie the cleansing of the conscience from sin which is the thing that ought to be signified in baptism : t. g. no action of mans devising may be said to signifie the cleansing our conscience● from sin , but my argument refers to the whole signification of baptism , and particularly the burial of christ and others with him , rom. 6 we are buried with him in baptism , and the scripture cannot be broken , therefore baptism must so be performed as to signifie these things : arg. 6. that which agrees not with the native signification of the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is not the right way of baptising . but your way agrees not with the native signification of the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 : ergo , your way is not the right way of baptising . mr. fort the minor is denied , our practice agrees with the signification of the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 : t. g. i desire you to shew the place which mentions such a washing as you practice , where the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is taken to express the sacred act of baptism : mr. fort. it is said the pharises did wash their cups and beds ; here the word baptizo is used , yet they did not dip them . t. grantham . i call'd for a text wher the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is used to express the sacred act of baptism , and that signifies your manner of washing , and instead of this , you bring me a place which speaks of the pha. rises washing cups and beds , and yet even this place is against you , for they that wash defiled cups and beds do more then sprinkle them , or poure a little water upon them , as you do on the infants fore-head ; and here give me leave to urge some authorities for the sigsiification of the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to be a dipping of the thing denominated baptized , and first i urge the greek grammer , where the radix is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and rendred , mergo , immergo , to dip or plunge . mr. fort. i will not regard the greek grammar . t. grantham . this is strange ! will you take upon you to correct the greek grammar . mr. fort. yes that i will , i will not believe the greek grammar . t. grantham . i suppose you would correct our bibles too if you could , but till this be done give us leave to believe the grammar which we have for i do not expect a better from you ; my next authority is that of channer , who saith 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 estingo quod fit immergendo portinctionem , & inundationem . mr. fort. i have not seen that author . t. grantham . then i give you another : an brose saith , ergofratres tingi debens 〈◊〉 fonte quo christus . therefore brethren we must be dipped in the same fountain with christ , that we may be one with christ , and to this agree the decrees of some councells . mr. fort. pray assign those counsells that decreed such a thing if you can . t. grantham . the forth toleton counsell ( which is ratified in the decretalls ) saith proter vitandum schismatis scandulum , & ● . wherefore to avoid the scandal of schism ▪ let us in baptism dip but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and saith the counsell of worms ▪ in aquas demersio in infernum est , & rursus ab aquis emersio resurrectio est . mr. fort. well i have told you i was dipped yet i had but my head only dipped , and for my part i do not use sprinkling at all . t. grantham . sir , i have shewed how therein you contradict your brethren and the church of england , and it 's observable that you cannot stand by your way of baptising , and hereby you give this assembly just cause to suspect their baptism , but i proceed . arg. 7. that practice which was innovated long after the institution of baptism is not the right way of baptising . but your way was innovated long after the institution of baptism . ergo , your way is not the right way of baptising . mr. fort. i deny that our way was innovated long after the institution of baptism . t. grantham . i can prove it was innovated long after the institution of baptism by your own doctors . for example , hugo grotius who confesses so much in his judgement on sundry points controverted , also the learned marquess of worcester in his conference with his late majesty confesses that their church ( to wit the papists ) changed baptism from dipping over head and ears to a little sprinkling upon the forehead , and wallridus strabo de rebus ecclesiae , that the first christians were baptized simply in floods and fountains , yea i can prove by our own chronicles that there were about ten thousand baptised in one day in the river swale in york-shire , from all which it appears your way of sprinkling is an innovation . mr. w mr. wright one of the ministers that sat by was very angry and stood up , saying ; you speak all , it is not fit you should speak so much . t. grantham to whom t. g. replyed sir you ought not to be angry ; i do not interrupt mr. fort , and he hath time to speak what he hath to say : therefore blame not me sith i hear as well as speak . mr. fort. pray mr wright be not angry ; i promised it should be a peaceable dispute . t. grantham . because i would give place that mr. fort ●ight have time to prove his practice , i would now proceed to the second question , ( viz ) qu. 2. whether infants ought to be baptized , i am to prove they ought not , which i thus do , arg. 1. holy scripture doth shew who are to be baptized , holy scripture d●th not shew that infants ought to be baptised . ergo , infants ought not to be baptised . mr. fort. holy scripture doth shew that infants ought to be baptised . thomas grantham . if holy scripture doth shew that infants ought to be baptised , then some body can shew where it may be found , but no body can shew us where such a scripture may be found . ergo holy scripture doth not shew that infants ought to be baptised . mr. fort. i can shew where it may be found , and i will prove that infants ought to be baptised , from mat. 28 19. t. grantham sir , you mistake your place , for you are not now to prove , but to answer me , nor doth the text you mention speak of infant baptism at all . mr. fort. the word is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 make disciples in all nations baptising them , but infants are part of the nations that are to be baptised . t. grantham . you do violate the law of disputing , for being my respondent you ought not to argue . now for the text it is read thus 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 &c. now for the explication of the verb 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , i refer you to john the 4 1. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 here disciples are made such by actual teaching : ergo , infants cannot be made disciples according to mat. 28. 19. mr. fort. i deny , that it is necessary to understand an actual teaching by the w●rd 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 t. g. the very reading of the text gives it against you , for it saith go teach all nations , ●twas an act to be done by the apostles . mr. fort. i tell you infants of believers are disciples and need no act to make them so . t. g. that cannot be , they must be made disciples either by god or man before they can be disciples , however they cannot be disciples according to mat. 28. because that is interpreted by your self to make disciples , ( viz ) by the apostles . mr. fort. but there is no necessity to understand an actual teaching of all that are to be made disciples . t. grantham . it can have no other signification , as i shall shew by your own criticks , who tell us that the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 est disco , to learn or get knowledge and in the hebrew 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 & 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 comes of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 didict and is rendred dicens ab alio , which agrees with the syriack 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and the arab. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 this fully accords with mark 16. 16. go preach the gospel to every creature and hence i argue . if those that are to be baptised according to mat. 28. 19. must first be made by actual teaching or learning from another , then no infant ought to be baptised according to this text but the first is true : ergo , so is the latter . mr. fort. i will prove that infants ought to be baptised as being disciples from acts 15. why tempt ye god to put a yoke upon the necks of the disciples ? this is spoken of infants , and therefore they are disciples . t. g. sir , i marvel you should no better observe the law of disputing which i must hold you to , and the rather because you were pleas●d to glory so much over your poor neighbours because of your skill in logick , and now i will shew your mistake of this text by the prosecution of my next argument which is this . arg 2 none ought to be baptised but such as are christs disciples , according to the gospel use of that expression . infants are not christs disciples according to the gospel use of that ●●pression . ergo infants ought not to be baptized . mr. fort. i deny the minor , infants are christs disciples according to the gospel use of that expression . t. grantham . none are christs disciples according to the gospel use of that expression , but such as take up their cross daily and follow christ , but infants do not so . ergo , to this agree the words of christ , luk. 12. mr. fort. this place speaks of persons of years , and not of infants . t. grantham . i grant it , and so doth every text that speaks of christs disciples according to the gospel use of that expression . mr. fort. not so , for i will shew a place where infants are called disciples , acts 15. here such as were to be circumcised after the manner of moses are called disciples and you know infants were circumcised after the maaner of moses . t. grantham . that infants were circumcised after the manner of moses is true , and that the false apostles would have put the yoke upon all the disciples is true , but that every one upon whom they would have put that yoke were disciples is not true ; i will expound this text by another , acts 4. 32. here we are informed that the multitude of them that believed had all things common ▪ yet it doth not follow that all that had part in these common things were believers , for infants had part in common things , and yet were no believers , for it 's said the multitude of them that believed were of one heart , and one soul. mr. fort. that text doth not expound the other . t. grantham . let them be diligently compared , and you will find that a man may as well prove infants believers from the one , as you can prove them disciples from the other , but i proceed . arg. 3. none ought to be baptized but those whose duty it is to be born again of water and of the spirit . it is not the duty of infants to be born again of water and the spirit . ergo , infants ought not to be baptised . mr. fort. i except against the term duty in your argument . t. grantham . why so ? mr. fort. there are four terms in your argument ; t. grantham . this is but an evasion , and no answer , you cannot shew four terms in it . mr. fort. i say infants ought to be born again of water and of the spirit . t. grantham . here you grant that they ought to be born again of water , and of the spirit , and yet deny it to be their duty , this is no good distinction to make the new birth no part of mans duty , but i will prove that whosoever is born again must therein perform duty , i joh. 5. whatsoever is born of god overcometh the world , and this is the victory even our faith : certainly to believe and overcome the world is something of duty . mr. fort , this place speaks not of infants , but of persons which are adult , t. grantham i grant it , but withall i say this text speaketh of whatsoever is born of god , and saith christ , every one that is born of the spirit is like the wind that bloweth so as the sound thereof is heard now can you imagine your infants are born again of the spirit , seeing they give not any demonstration of it ? mr. fort. you still insist upon places which speak of adult persons . t. grantham . i have told you that all the scriptures which speak of the new birth of water and of the spirit , speaks of adult persons , or if any speak of infants pray shew us where they are . arg ▪ 4. no sinners ought to be baptized , but those of whom faith and repentance is first required , faith and rep●ntance are not required of infants . e●go , infants are not such sinners as ought to be baptized . mr. fort. this argument is like the rest , you still insist upon those things wh●●h are the duty of adult persons . t. grantham your conscience tells you that i insist upon those things which are the duty of all that are to be baptised ; yea your vulgar catechism teacheth us that faith and repentance are required of all that are to be baptised , but seeing you answer not , but evade only , i shall proceed . arg. 5. all that ought to be buried with christ in baptism , ought first to be dead with him from the rudiments of the world . infants ought not to be dead with christ from the rudiments of the world . ergo , infants ought not to be baptised . mr. fort. i deny the consequence . t. grantham . no sir , you cannot deny the consequence in a categoricall syllogism , so that you must either distinguish , or deny one of the propositions . mr. fort. well then , i deny your major . t. g. i need but only shew the absurdity of this your denyal , for you say in effect that so●e are to be buried before they be dead , now that all christians in rome and coloss were dead with christ , before they were buried with him in baptism , is evident , rom. 6 , 1 , 2 , 3 , 4 , colos . 2. 10 , 11 , 12. and is as true of all other churches , by which it is plain that no infants were then , nor ought now to be baptised . arg. 6. such only ought to be baptised as christ and his apostles did baptise , or appointed to be baptised , but neither christ nor his apostles baptised any infants , n●r appointed them to be baptised , ergo. m. fort. christ did appoint infants to be baptised , and said suffer little children to come unto me and forbid them not , mat. 18. t. grantham , all that can fairly be inferred of this passage is this , that if any desire the prayers of the ministers of christ for their children &c. they may lawfully pray for such blessings as they have need of ; but if any presume to baptise them , they do more to them then christ did , or any other by his appointment . mr. fort. the jaylor and all his were baptised , and how can you think there were no infants in his house . t. grantham . the very reading of this text doth shew , that there were no infants baptised , for first the word was preached to him and to all that were in his house , secondly he rejoyced believing in god with all his house : i desire no better evidence against your infant baptism then the place you bring for it . arg. 7. all that are to be baptised ought therein to worship god in spirit and truth , as also in other general duties of the n●w testament . but infants ought not to worship god in spirit and in truth in baptism , nor any other general duty of the new testainent . ergo , infants ought not to be baptised . mr. fort. what do you mean by the general duties of the new testa ent ? t , g. i mean prayer , hearing the word , and communion at the lords table according to acts. 2. 41. 42. mr. fort this is spoken of grown persons , and not of infants . t. grantham . this is spoken of all that were baptised in the first church , whose pattern we ought to sollow rather then the innovations of men. mr. fort. your way is an innovation not much above two hundred years old . tho. grantham . not so , for our way of baptising began in the days of john the baptist , and for our opposing infant baptism 't is very antient , for as soon as we hear it mentioned we find it opposed by tertullian who lived in the third century : mr. fort. tertullian is conceived to oppose only the baptising of the children of unbelievers : t. g. that is a great mistake , his words are indefinite , for he saith , veniant ergo dum adolescunt , veniant dum discunt , dum quo veniant decentur , fiant christiam cum christum nosse potuerint . mr. w mr. wright who was one of the other priests , stood up and said , let the business be put to that issue , for you only have tertullian for the antients , and he was a mantanists . t. grantham . if he must be lightly looked at because he was in some errour , as that of montanus , then you must lay aside most of the antient fathers who also had their errours , but you are mistaken tertullian was not the only person among the antients that opposed infant baptism , for greg. nazianzene did likewise disswade from it . mr. wright . we have irenaeus before tertullian who speaks for infant baptism for he saith infantes pueris senis . t. grantham , you act his words amiss , for it is not senis but seniores . mr. wright . it is senis , it is senis . t. grantham , you mistake it is s●niores , and beside irenaeus speaks not of baptism , only he useth the words , renascunter in d●um . mr. fort the antients understood by them words to be baptized . t. g. it is inconvenient so to interpret ir●●eus in this place ; for then it would follow that unless infants be baptised they cannot be saved , which is absurd , but i desire you to answer to the argument mr. fort seemed not disposed to give any surther answer : then t. grantham said i have propounded and prosecuted 7 arguments against your pretended way of baptising ▪ and 7 against your infant subject , of what weight they are , and how you have answered them , we are no proper judges ▪ but must leave that to the auditors ; now because i would not take up the whole time , i desire you to be opponent , and i will answer you : i conclude with the words of aug●stine , nec ego te , nec tu me , sed ambo audiamus christi in scrip●●res . mr. fort opponent . i am now to prove our way of baptising to be the right way of baptising , and that infants ought to be baptised . arg. 1. if our way of baptising doth signifie that which ought to be signified in baptism then it is the right way of baptising . but our way of baptising doth signifie that which ought to be signified in baptism . ergo , it is the right way of baprising . t. grantham . if you mean that your way of baptising doth signifie all that ought to be signified in baptism , then i deny the minor , and we have before shewed how short it comes of the true and full signification of baptism . mr. fort. our way of baptising signifies the washing away of sins , and it agrees with the signification of the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which is to wash , therefore it is sufficient . t. grantham . the contrary to this hath been shewed and i now deny that every kind of washing agrees with the signification of the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 when used to express the sacred act of baptising , and i desire you to shew one text where that word is taken for a washing the fore-head only when the sacred act of baptising is expressed by it ▪ mr fort. the jaylor was baptised at midnight ; and do you think he had a river in his house ? t. grantham you are much mistaken the jaylor went out to be baptised : mr. fort. you cannot make that appear . t. grantham . yes the reading of the text is plain to that purpose , for it is said he was baptised , he , and all his straightway , and then it follows , and when he had brought them into his house , he set meat before them . mr. fort. that may be meant of carrying them out of one room into another t. grantham . this is contrary to common sence ; you cannot speak your conscience in this . mr. fort. i have shewed our way of baptizing is sufficient , i will now prove that infants ought to be baptised . arg , 2 ▪ if infants are within the covenant of grace then they ought to be sealed with the seal of the covenant , and by consequence to be baptised . but infants are within the covenant of grace and ough to be sealed , &c , ergo , they ought to be baptized . t. grantham . before i answer your argument give me leave to ask you a question ▪ how many seals belong to the covenant of grace , and what be they ? mr. fort. there are two seals of the covenant , to wit , baptism , and the lords supper : t , g. then i deny your minor proposition from your own practice , for you deny infants one of these seals , to wit , the lords supper , though you confess them to be within the covenant , and we by as good reason deny the other seal to belong to infants : mr. fort. yes , we have better reason for the one then you have for the other , for it is said ; let a man examine himself , and so let him eat . t. grantham . 1. it is also said , repent and be baptised every one of you , acts 2. ●8 . if thou believest with all thine heart thou maist . 2. i might answer your instance out of your own mouth , by saying this is meant of persons of years , and not of infants , which as it is true so it shews the weakness of your answers to many of my arguments . mr. fort. i say infants being in the covenant they ought to be sealed with the seal ▪ and i pray tell me plainly whether you hold them in the coven●n● or no ? t. g. i say being in the covenant you mean the grace of eternal life by the death of christ , then i say all infants are so in the covenant of say but if by covenant you mean the duties of the covenant , then i 〈◊〉 infants are not so under the covenant . mr fort. you cannot prove that all infants dying in infancy shall be saved . t. g. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 if it were my business , i could and would prove it , but i am 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 you ▪ mr. fort. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to prove it if you can . t. grantham . then i prove it by the testimony of the apostle , who saith as in adam all dye , so in christ shall all be made alive , and again as by the offence of once the judgement came on all men to condemnation , so by the obedience of one the free gift abounded towards all men to justification of life . mr. fort. these places do not prove that all infants dying in infancy shall be saved ; for he speaks here only of the resurrection of the dead . t. g. these places do shew that what death and condemnation came on infants by adam is made void by the death of christ , and i desire you to answer me this question , whether you believe that any infants dying in infancy shall be damned ; mr. fort. yes i do be●ieve some infants dying in infancy shall be damned , ( here the people gave a general sigh as disliking so harsh a saying . ) t. g. then you are no friend to infants ; shall the lord tell us , the son shall not bear the iniquity of the father , and shall we no● believe him . mr. fort. the lord doth say he will visit the iniquities of the father upon the children unto the third and fourth generation . t. g. yea sir , but it is of them that hate him , but yet i grant in respect of temporal punishments the children do often bear the iniquities of their fathers , yea , all infants do bear the sin of their father adam to this day , but our discourse is of eternal condemnation , in which respect i say infants shall not bear the iniquity of their father , seeing christ saith of infants indefinitely , of such are the kingdom of god. mr. fort well i have shewed that infants being in the covenant ought therefore to be baptized , and it is said 1 cor. 7. that infants are holy and so they are in covenant with their believing parents . t. g : i have answered your argument by distinguishing betwixt the duty of the covenant , and the mercy of eternal life , in the first i say infants are not in the covenant , but in the other i say they are for they shall be saved by christ . and for the holiness the 1 cor. 7. it is expounded by erasmus , and others of your own doctors to be only a legi●timate holiness , and indeed being derived from the unbelievers being sanctified , it cannot fairly be understood of any other kind of cleanness then that which is matrimonial . mr. wright mr. w. interposed saying diodate doth expound that place of a covenant holiness . t. g. i grant he doth so , yet augustine far more antient then he saith , that whatsoever that ho●iness is it is certain it is not of power to make christians or remit sins . mr. e. i marvel you ●…ould deny infants the seal seeing you grant them to be in the covenant . t. g. i do not deny them the seal any more then your self , who deny them the lords supper , which was allowed them in old time for 600 years together . mr. f. what author saies so ? i do not think you can shew that in any good author . t. g. i can shew it from your own doctors in a learned treatise called a scholastical discourse about symbolising vvith anti-christ in ceremonies . mr. fort. infants being in the covenant are in the church , and therefore cannot be denyed baptism , t. grantham . i answer by the former distinction if by being in the covenant and in the church you mean the whole number of the saved : i grant infants to be in the covenant and in the church ; but if you mean those onlie who are in the actual profession of gospel ordinances , as baptism and the like , i say no scripture shews them to be so in the covenant . mr. fort repeating what he said before , rose up to go away , then tho. grantham said . gentlemen , though we differ in opinion , yet i desire we may endeavour to maintain the great duty of charitie towards each other , till god shall rectifie our judgements in these things . mr. w , mr. wright replied , saying it was not meet to place all our religion in these ●hings , but to walk in love one towards another , or to this effect , and thus in a f●iendlie manner the meeting was dissolved & everie man went away in peace . the next day the baptised christians met together to preach the word : mr. fort and mr. wright came to the meeting and i● a very civil manner assaied to discourse with them about the authoritie by which they preach , supposing that they had no ordinarie calling to the ministry , but when it was shewed them that no man was allowed to minister in the baptised churches in the capacity of a pastor or other officer , without due election and ordination by fasting and prayer , with the laying on of hands by the presbiterie , bishops , or overseers of the church ; they then onlie opposed that libertie of prophecie , which we allow , saying that gifted men in the church , as meer gifted christians might not praie , or expound the word in publick assemblies , we on the contrarie alledgd that gifted christians as such might lawfullie speak in the church to exhortation , &c. in a modest and humble manner for the improvement of gi●ts and the profit of the church . quoting to this purpose 1 pe. 4 , 10 , 11 ▪ 1 cor. 14. 31. acts 18. 25 26. we spent about half an hour in friendlie discourse about the meaning of those scriptures , but not agreeing in our expositions , mr. fort took his leave , and we proceeded in our work . finis . brief animadversions upon dr. stillingfleet's digressions about the baptising of infants , in his book intituled a rational account of the grounds of the protestant religion . &c. wherein the insufficiency of his grounds for infant baptism is discovered . by thomas grantham . job . 14. 4. who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean one . isa . 29. 16. surely your turning things upside down shall be esteemed as the petters clay . london , printed in the year , 1674. to the reader . it is not any conceit of my fitness to contend with learned men in the controversies depending about sacred baptism , which moves me to this present undertaking , but the experience i have of the mistake of some persons , who take the things brought by dr. stilling-fleet in favour of infant baptism , to be of greater weight then what hath been done by other men in that question , as also i might by this paper move some abler hand to reckon morefully and methodically with his new devices , if upon consideration they find themselves concerned to do it . but chiefly my aim is , to move , if it may be , the learned authour , to consider how much he injures the cause he manages against the papists , with so much judgement and learning , whilst he endeavours to support his traditional infant sprinkling ( for baptism it is not ) which being allowed , other innovations of popery , or other sects will certainly be supported together with it , as having the same grounds , and in some respect fairer pretences to obtrude upon the church of god , from all which errours let her be delivered , by the protection of the almighty , to whose grace i comit thee . thine to serve thee in christ . tho. grantham . brief animadversions upon dr. stillingfleet's digressions about the baptising of infants . solomon the wise , hath told us , there are many devices in mans heart . the truth whereof is verified in the multitude of devices old and new which men have found out to darken the counsell of god , teaching the sacred institution of the baptism of repentance for the remision of sins . nevertheless the counsell of god that shall stand , and therefore neither shall the devices of dr. stillingfleet prevail , nor be found ●o much as a rational account of the grounds of infant baptism , albeit divers persons are perswaded that he hath out-done others , that have undertaken to defend that innovation . 1. first , therefore we shall consider the two texts , john 3. 5. act. 2. 38 , 39. which he says , according to the interpretation of the fathers and the antient church and the papists themselves do evidently assert infant baptism ▪ it were answer sufficient to tell h●m , that what ever was the interpretation of the fathers , &c. yet , according to the interpretation of the protestants , the grounds of whose religion he presents to give an account off , these texts , doth not hold forth such a necessity of infant baptism , as by some of the antients was imagined , seeing the protestants do not say , as the papists and some before them , no baptism no salvation ; but they more truly teach , that this place is to be understood ( even as some of the fathers also expounded it ) of such as refuse or contemn baptism , and yet saying withall to your confutation , that it is not necessary by water , john , 3. 5. to understand the external rite of baptism . see fulk . ans . to the rhemists annot. john 3. so dr. willit synops . papis . however , it is evident to them that will not shut their eyes that in john 3. 5. christ is shewing the way of life , and the duties of regeneration to such as came to him for instruction , and spea●● nothing there , of the case of infants , who ( as one well observes ) cannot overcome the world , by reason of their natural incapacity to know either good or evil , and therefore are not obliged to the duties of the new birth , to wit , repentance , faith and baptism , for whatsoever is born of god overcometh the world , and this is the victory that overcometh the world even our faith . and hence it is evident that john 3. 5. cannot be understood of infants , who are wholly uncapable of the duties of regeneration . and as eviden● it is , that acts ● 38. 39. intends not infants seeing the persons there to be baptised , even every one of them , are required first to repent ; a duty of which infants are wholly uncapable ; and the promise there mentioned is clearly meant of the gi●ts of the holy ghost or the spirit of promise in a special manner , according to the prophesie of jo●l , the extent of which promise is only to the called of the lord , v●rse 39 ▪ and this interpretation also is avouched by learned protestants , see diodate on the text , and erasmus on the same ; dr jer. taylor in his book of confirmation doth fully expound this place , of the promise of the spirit both to the parents , and to the children , as they are the called of the lord , and not to infants in that capacity . lib. proph●cy . so then the pretended evidence of infant baptism from this place is taken away , because this tr●th is hence very evident , that calling by the word of the gospel regeneration ●y faith and repentance are the true antecedents to the baptism of every sinner . 2. secondly , dr st●lling-fleet states the q●estion between the baptists and the paed●-baptists after this manner . wh●ther our bless●d savio●r hath by a positive precept so determined the subject of baptism , viz. adult persons professing the faith , that the a●teration of the subject , in baptising infants be not a deviation from , a●d a p●rversion off the institution of christ in a substantial part of it ? 〈…〉 short , whether our saviour hath so determined the subject of bapt●sm as to exclude infants . this done he tells us that taking in only the help of scripture and reason , it were no difficult matter to ●rove directly that infants are so far from being excluded baptism by the institution of christ , that there are as many grounds as are necessary to a matter of that nature , to prove that the baptising 〈◊〉 is ●uita●le to the institution of ●hrist , and agreeable to the 〈◊〉 of the church under the gospel . so then , scripture and rea●on ●nly must now deside the controversie , let us hear therefore 〈…〉 st●ll●ng fleet brings from thence , and th●s he speaks . if there were any ground to exclude them it must be either the incapacity of the subject or some express precept and institution of our saviour , but neither of them can be supposed to do it . but i answer , for both these cau●es infants are not to be bapti●ed , and sith their incapacity depends upon the nature of the institution these two reasons are resolved into one ; now the institution of baptism , whether we consider it as delivered by god to his servant john , and by him to us ; or as it is established by precept from christ , for a perpetual ministry in his church to the end of the world ▪ we shall find it delivered by both in such sort , as it is exclusive of infants ; for , in the first place it is deli●ered as the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins ; mark 1. 4. and every sinner who is said to be baptised by him , is said to be baptised confessing their sins , verse 5. which we know is not to be expected of infants . the precept of our saviour for the perpetuity of baptism so expresly requires the making every subject a disciple in order thereunto , and that by actual teaching , or preaching the gospel to them , mat. 28. 19. mark 16 15 ▪ according to christs own example , who so made disciples before they were baptised , that no infant with any shew of scripture or reason can possibly be brought within the reach of baptism according to it's institution ; in a word dr. st●ll●ng-fl●et seems , in so many words , to grant in his first state of the question that to bring infants to baptism , is an alteration of the subject , and therefore not agreeable to the institution of christ , in which to admit of alterations is very dangerous . but saith dr. s. the rule and measure as to the capacity of divine institutions must be fetched from the end of them , for this was the ground ef the circumcision of proselites under the law. answer , that the ground of the circumcision of proselites was fetched from the end of the institution , is not true . and indeed had it been left to that , mens various conceits about the ends of such institutions might have made as ill work , as we see yours do now ▪ wherefore the wisdom of god to prevent those dangers , gave express order in that case as appears , gen 17. 13. compared with exod. 12. 44. 48. and when a stranger shall sojourn with thee , and will keep the passeover , let all his males be circumcised , and verse 49 , one law shall be to him that is home born , and unto the strager that sojourneth among you . thus we see the law is as express for the circumcising proselites and their males , as for israel themselves diodate also expounds the first place by the second ( the servant that is born ) meaning ( saith he ) the proselite who of his own free will shall add himself to the church by the profession of gods true worship . but now , if we admit dr. s. his rule , that the measure as to the capacity of divine institutions , must be fetched from the ends thereof , yet will he be so farr from gaining , that he will quite lose his cause . for , if by the ends of baptism he means the things signified in baptism ( as that he does , for he said they who are capable of the thing signified ought not to be denyed the sign ) then we shall certainly gain one thing out of two and either of them will serve our turn to shew his mistake , viz. either infants are not capable of baptism , becau●e not capable of all things signified thereby , or else that the protestants do violate their own rule in denying infants some other holy signs , as general as baptism , when yet they are capable of some of the things signified thereby , and this shall evidently appear ●y running the parralell between us , as to the grounds upon which you deny infants the priviledge of the lords table , and we deny them baptism . and first . 1 the things signified by the lords table ( as the ends of that institution ) is christ crucified for us , and to c●me again to receive us to him●elf , of these mercies infants are capable , because they shall be saved by the death and comming of the lord jesus , thus they have the thing signified ▪ yet you deny them the sign because they understand not the thing represented by the sign . answerable to this we say , by baptism is signified the death and resurection of christ and our salvation thereby , of this mercy signified in baptism infants are capable but yet the sign is not given to them because they understand not the thing signified thereby . 2. the ends , or things signified by the lords table , on our part are , the profession of our fa●th , the manifestation of our union with the church , &c. of these ends infants are not capable , therefore then do not admit them to the lords ta●le . answerable to this we say , the things signified in baptism on our ●●rt , are the profession of o●r faith , and manifestation of our union 〈◊〉 the saints , &c. of these ends ●nfants are not capable , therefore 〈…〉 them not to baptism . 3. our coming to the lords table holds forth abstainence f●om the levened bread of malice and wickedness , and our feeding upon the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth ; of these ends ( as they are duties ) infants are not capable , therefore you admit them not to the lords table . answerable to this we say , baptism holds forth our death to sin , and the newness of life from our baptism to the end , of these ends of baptism infants are not capable , and therefore we admit them not to baptism , for the rule and measure as to the capacity of divine institutions is to be fetched from the ends of them . the same might be said concerning the imposition of hands with prayer for the spirit of promise , seeing it was practised by the apostles upon the newly baptised indifferently yet you admit no infants to this divine institution , though you suppose them to be baptised , although according to protestant doctrine they are capable of the promise act. 2. 38 , 39. and the benediction signified , and obtained thereby by which your inconsistancy with your own rule is further manifested and hence i infer ( according to your own words ) by a parity of reason built on equal grounds , you ought not to baptise infants because the rule and measure , as to divine institutions , or the capacity of the subjects ther●of are to be fetched from the ends thereof . not from some ends only ( and those too only which we please ) as dr. s doth unadvisedly teach , for so there would be no man , or but very few , but might be brought to baptism , or other ordinances , seeing they are capable of several things signified therein , as the death of christ for the sins of the world and his resurection , by which all shall rise again ; and whether they believe it or no , yet he is the lord that bought them , and a mediator between god and them , that his long-suffering might lead them to repentance wherefore your instance of our saviours being baptised without repentance avails you nothing , unless you were a le to prove a special case to be a general rule for the practise of ordinances , which yet you cannot but know is pernicious many ways , nor can you rationally believe that because christ who was no sinner was baptized without repentance , that therefore you must baptise sinners without repentance also ; if otherwise , then why may not persons be admitted to the lords table without self examination , seeing christ did partake of it without self examination , having no need to do so ? certainly though christ did this it shall never be demonstrated that the members of his church may do it without self examination , and yet thus went the matter in old time for hundreds of years together , so true is the maxim admit one absurdity and more will follow . but to make an end of this , its evident : christ in being baptised did his duty to god , and had he not been baptised he had not fulfilled all righteousness ; let it now be shewed that it●s the duty of infants to be baptised , or that they or any body else commits sin in refusing infant baptism , and then we shall stand upon no further capacity on their part nor oppose this instance as to the end for which it is brought but till this be done we justly reject such argumentation . neither is it true , that what we say of the incapacity of infants &c. reflects upon the wisdom of god in appointing circumcision for infants , for gods command made them fit subjects for it , together with the nature of the covenant which he made with abraham , and his , according to the flesh , which covenant he also ordained to be in their flesh by circumcision , gen. 17. 13. now therefore when it shall appear , that the covenant of the gospel , ( i mean it , as established by christ in his church ) is made with any man and his seed according to the flesh , and that god hath required the gospel covenant should be in their flesh by baptism , and so every infant born of them , or servant bought with money to be baptised we shall then grant that to insist on the incapacity of infants would reflect upon the wisdom of god , but sith this neither is , nor can be done , all these pretended reflections falls really upon dr. s. for denying infants the lords supper , because of their incapacity , who yet were admitted to the passeover , of which they were as uncapable as of the lords table . what the dr. says further of the ends of baptism to represent and exhibit the nature of the grace of the gospel and to confirm the truth of the covenant on gods part : we have considered before , and to what you here add , saying , it instates the partakers of it in the priviledges of the church of god , i answer , that though the dr. speaks right according to the right administration of baptism , yet according to his way of infant baptism it is not so , seeing we all know , infants ( while such ) though sprinkled have no more priviledge in your church then those who are not sprinkled , for the priviledges next following baptism , is to be taught to observe all things whatsoever christ commanded , and to continue in fellowship with the church in breaking of bread and prayer , acts 2 42. ma. 28. 20. now to tell us that infants are instated in these things , and yet whilst infants have nothing at all to do with them is too gross a vanity . for , if you say they are instated in these priviledges upon future contingences , viz. repentance , faith and newness of life according to the gospel , i answer when this comes to pass they are no infants , nor as infants partake of these priviledges , but as those that are now the sons of god by faith , and thus truly all infants are instated in church priviledges as soon as born , seeing by the death of christ they have a right upon the conditions of the gospel when capable to perform them , thus you mislead the world with a specious pretence of instating their infants in church priviledges , when 't is only an empty sound of words . but the jews infants as they were instated in the priviledges of their church , by circumision , so they entred upon the enjoyment of their priviledges in infancy , appearing by gods commandment three times a year in the temple with the offerings accustomed and to partake of the passeover , with the congregation or family where it was eaten . the dr. saith , nothing can seem wanting of the ends of baptism ( in respect of infants ) but that which seems most cerimonial which is the personal restipulation , which yet may reasonably be supplyed by sponsors , &c. that there is much wanting beside this restipulation in your infant baptism is shewed before , and it is unadvisedly said that the restipulation of the person baptised is the most ceremonial thing in baptism , seeing it is the moral and substantial part being indeed our covenanting with god and in truth the external washing is far more ceremonial as appears 1 pet. 3. 21. and for your saying that the personal restipulation in baptism may be reasonably supplyed by godf●thers , is very much below the reason of any christian to affirm ; but is it so ? that sponsors may supply the personal restipulation , which is the greater , then let them also supply the lesser , to wit sprinkling with water , which they can better perform , then the covenant they make for the infant , and then the whole business will appear to have the same reasonableness in every part ▪ viz , wholly unreasonable . thus much touching the capacity of infants ▪ &c. next the dr tells us , that in the institution of baptism there is neither direct nor consequential prohibition of infants to be baptized , and that there is nothing of that nature pretended before the 〈◊〉 comission , mat. 28. 19. but here is a mistake , and its strange he never observed that it hath often been demonstrated that , as when circumcision first appeared in the world , it clearly took in the infants of those to whom it was first given , so , accordingly it was propagated ; but when baptism first appeared in the world , it as clearly left out the infants of those to whom it was first ministred , and accordingly was propagated by the holy apostles ▪ insomuch that of the many thousands , and famous churches , that were baptised , all the world is not able to shew so much as one infant to have been baptised in any one of them , nor one word of precept for so doing , and if this be not so much as a consequential prohibition of infant baptism , i shall never believe that the dr. or any else can shew me so much as a consequential prohibition , of infants receiving the lords supper , the imposition of hands &c. and though the dr. consider never so much what apprehensions the apostles had concerning the church state of such as were in external covenant with god , yet he cannot rationally imagine that they should measure the state of the gospel churches by the reason of the covenant which god made with the jews and their seed according to the flesh . seeing it is expresly said from henceforth , to wit from the vanishing of the old covenant , know we no man after the flesh — but now if any man be in christ he is a new creature . and now men are not to be accounted of the church because they are abraham ▪ s seed , but they are accounted abraham ▪ s seed by being in the church of christ , gal. 3. 29. if ye be christs then are you abraham 's seed , and heirs according to promise . neither is it true that christ commanded his apostles to gather whole nations into churbes , as the dr. affirms , neither did the apostles gather any one whole nation , or city into a church s●ate that we read of , therefore churches consisting of whole nations , men , women and infants , are not apostollical but this the apostles did they taught many nations , 1. v. their sound went through many nations , not that they taught all manner of persons in the nations , for they taught no infants , and the persons by them gathered into the church , were only such as received their doctrine , as appears by those families where their gospel was received , the husband sometimes opposite to the wife , and otherwhiles the wife to the husband servants and masters likewise differing in the same family about christianity , 1. cor. 7. if then the apostles did not gather whole families into a church state unless they did wholly believe , act. 16. how-should any man imagine , they gathered whole nations ? the greatest part whereof by all experience are wicked persons yea in those very nations , which men pretend to have made into churches of christ of which would god england were not so full an evidence as it is this day . the dr. grants that the order of words mat. 28 , 19. ( teach all nations baptising them ) was necessary for those who were then to be proselited to christianity . and we say they are as necessary for the generations following , who have as much need of true faith and repentance ▪ or the first principles of christianity in order to their being christians , as them that went before , and it is a pernitious alteration of the order of christs commission , to out-run it●s direction so , as to make persons to be christians , before they do or can know the least title of christianity . the case which the dr. puts , about going to disciple the indians baptising them , is not at all rational , but upon the pre-supposition , that the person so doing , to have seen or known them , that gives him his authority to baptise infants , and then indeed it 's rational to suppose such a person would not understand that the words , disciple the indians baptising them , would exclude infants . but yet i must also say , that his ground to believe so could not arise from the words themselves but from the practice presupposed . wherefore the apostles having direction to teach all nations baptising them , without the least knowledge of any infants baptized by any baptists which were before them , or from whom they received their authority , here is no place for the drs. suppositions at all . as little cause hath he to think that had any one said to abraham he that believeth and is circumcised shall be saved , it ought so to have been interpreted , as that infants ought to be circumcized . for if this had been all the rule given for circumcision , it must of necessity have been limited to such as believe only , and unless the dr. know how from good ground to satisfie his conscience , that infants are believers of that which is taught or preached according to mark 16. ( which place he aludes unto ) he must so limit the diversion for baptising . but if indeed he take infants to be such believers , then he is answered by dr. hammond in his let. of resol . p. 297. who saith , as for the question whether infants have faith ? i profess my self to be none of those who are concerned in it . i freely confess to believe , faith to be so necessarily founded in understanding , that they that have not understandisg cannot have faith , whethe actual or habitual . the conclusion therefore is , sith in the case you put , the word ( believe ) cannot concern infants , and that they must be deemed capable of salvation , though they believe not , it is every way safe to think them unconcern●d in the other duty , that passage mark 16. 16. or any other like unto it notwithstanding . finally the dr. proposes five considerations about the suitableness of in●ant baptism to the administration of things under the gospel , and first he saith . 1. that if it had been christs intention to exclude infants , there had been far greater reason for an express prohibition then for an express command , if his intention were to admit them , because this was suitable to the general grounds of gods dispensation among them before . answer , here is little said but what hath been answered before , and may be answered by saying , had it been christs intention that infants should not be admitted to the lords table there had been more need of an express prohibition , &c. then of an express command , &c. because suitable to gods dispensations among them before . thus argumentum ad hominem . but i answer further , it is dangerous arguing to our present right to sacraments , from gods dispensations among the jews , seeing the state of the church , and the di●pensation is so much altered as that the former was but carnal , in respect of the spirituality of the other . 2. the dr. saith , it is very hard to conceive that the apostles thought infants excluded by christ , when after christs ascention they looked upon themselves bound to observe the jewish customes , even when they had baptized many thousands , answer , it is ill said that the apostles were bound to observe any such jewish customes because of any suitableness between them and things under the gospel ( which is the mark you ought to hit or you say nothing ) but the reason why they did observe such customes for a time , was the weakness of the jews , and we find the apostles did as speedily put a period to such customes as they could acts 15. 24. to 32. acts 1645. which clearly shews jewish customes was not suitable to things under the gospel , and here circumcision one of the chief of jewish rites , is clearly abolished among the rest , so that a man would think infant baptism should never have been built upon it . 3. the dr saith if admission of infants to baptism were a meer relique of judaism , it seems strange that none of the judaizing christians should be charged with it ; who yet are charged with the observation of other judaical r●tes .. answer , i find no man saying that infant baptism was a relique of judaism , save dr. hammond , and some from him , and he indeed would make believers baptism also a jewish relique whiles he teaches that the jews baptising proselites , and their children was the original , and the baptism ●f the christian church but the coppy , by which device he hath opened a gap to our late n●tionists to deprive the church of sacred baptism altogether , and hath done more to weaken the cause of infant baptism then any other of its favourites , in laying its foundation in jewish ceremonies , for which they had no clear command from god. but great is this truth of believers baptism , and will stand notwithstanding the injury done by dr. hammond , for it was no jewish rite , the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins was from heaven , mat. 21. 25. and the pharisees who ●ere ●ealous enough for jewish rites , rejcted holy baptism , which christ asfi●ms to be the counsel of god lu. 7. 30. and testifies out of the consciences of his enemies , that he that t●aches otherwise denyes john to be a prophet . this then is the thing that truly seems strange , that no mention is made of infant baptism , if indeed it was at all received in the christian church either as a jewish rite or otherwise , but not str●●●e at all that none is charged with it , seeing none can be named that held it . 4. since theie wish christians were so much offended saith the dr. at the neglect of circumcision , acts 21. can we in reason think they should quietly bear their children being wholly thrown out of the church , as they would have been , if neither admitted by circumcision nor baptism . answer , since the false apostles was so earnest to have the christians circumcise their children , it 's strange that none of the true apostles could or would quiet them by saying instead of infant circumcision you have infant baptism if indeed there had been any such thing practiced , for , this way went the apostle paul to still them , vvhen they would have brought the believers themselves under circumsion , col. two . telling the chriffians they vvere circumcised vvith the circumcision made vvithout hands , in putting off the body of the sins of the ▪ flesh by the circumcision of christ , buried vvith him in baptism , vvherein ye also are ●isen with him through the faith , &c. and why might not the jews as qui●tly take the non-admission of infants to baptism , as they so took the non-admission of them to the lords supper seeing they were formerly admitted to the passeover , nor i● it necessary to say , that though they were not admitted to either of these , that therefore they are wholly thrown out of the church ; for , if by church be meant the whole number of the saved , then are infants of the churchs for christ hath told us the kingdom of god belongs to infants , and thus were infants of the church before circumcision was for some thousands of years : but if by church be meant those only vvho are concerned in the actual profession of the gospel , in this respect i grant infants are not of the church , god having no vvhere required this of infants in his gospel . infants are novv as vvell as before the flood , vvithin the covenant of the gospel in respect of the grace of eternal life , but are not under the duties of the covenant , to vvit , repentance , faith baptism perseverance , &c. nor can my calling the whole number of the saved the church , and thus making infants a part thereof offend a protestant who is acquainted with protestant doctrines , seeing mr. rogers cath. doctrine p. 73. upon art. 19. of the church of england , do●h affirm , there is an invisible church , and takes all within the compass of ●his church who are elect , tryumphing or that shall tryumph in heaven dr. field takes into his definition of the church all the elect , of men or angels , caled , or not yet called . l. 1. c. 8. so that according to these defi●itions of the churc● , infants are not thrown out of the church though not of the number of the called , and consequently not that cause for the jews to complain , nor any other which the dr. doth imagine ; unless they be not acquainted with the extent of the covenant of gods grace in christ iesus our lord. five , the doctor lastly tells us , that had it been contrary to christs institution ( to baptise infants ) we should not have had such evidence of it's early practice in t●e church , and here i acknowledge the use of apostolical tradition to manifest this to us . answer , this is altogether unlike a protestant : what are the sacraments so darkly laid down in the scripture that vve knovv not vvhen and to vvhom they belong vvithout tradition ? but vvhen shall vve see this tradition apostolical , i think doctor ta●lor expresly denies there is any tradit apostolical . lib. proph●si . p. 117. 120. but the doctor cannot but knovv there be errou●s ●vhich crept into the church even in the apostles days , vvhich also continued in some of them , notvvithstanding all endeavours to purge them , such vvere circumcision and keeping the lavv. or if we list to reckon vvith records of antiquity , 't is easi● o show some things held by papists and opposed by the doctor are better proved by tradi●ion then infant baptism , for example the lent fast ond prayer for the dead , this is not denyed by mr. perkins demonst . prob . what then shall be gained to the protestant religion by such traditional arguments . it is a notable saying of irenae●s ( according to dr. fulk ) wsen the hereticks are reproved out of the scriptures they ●all to accusing the scriptures as if all is not well in them — and that the truth cannot be found out of them that know not the tradition . and saith tertul , ( according to dr. fulk ) take away those things from the hereticks , which they hold with ethnicks , that they may stay their questions upon scripture only . finis . errata . p. 3. l. 5. r. is right , p. 4. l. 25. r. of a midwife p. 5. l. 34. for these r. those p. 7. l. 27. for others r. overs . the quæries examined, or, fifty anti-queries seriously propounded to the people called presbyterians occasioned by the publication of fifty queries, gathered out of the works of mr. rich. baxter. by j. b. wherein the principal allegations usually brought to support infant-baptism are discovered to be insufficient. by t. g. grantham, thomas, 1634-1692. 1676 approx. 92 kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from 28 1-bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; 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(eebo-tcp ; phase 1, no. a41786) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set 38404) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, 1641-1700 ; 1833:1) the quæries examined, or, fifty anti-queries seriously propounded to the people called presbyterians occasioned by the publication of fifty queries, gathered out of the works of mr. rich. baxter. by j. b. wherein the principal allegations usually brought to support infant-baptism are discovered to be insufficient. by t. g. grantham, thomas, 1634-1692. [2], 43, [1] p. [s.n.], london : printed in the year of our lord 1676. t. g. = thomas grantham; j. b. = john barret, whose work is being attacked by the author. quire f is a cancel. reproduction of original in the british library. created by converting tcp files to tei p5 using tcp2tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between 1473 and 1700 available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the 25,363 texts created during phase 1 of the project have been released into the public domain as of 1 january 2015. anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. 5% (or 5 pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of 100 instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level 4 of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p5, characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng barret, john, 1631-1713. -fifty queries, seriously propounded to those that question, or deny infants right to baptism -early works to 1800. baxter, richard, 1615-1691 -early works to 1800. infant baptism -controversial literature -early works to 1800. baptists -controversial literature -early works to 1800. salvation theology -early works to 1800. 2007-11 tcp assigned for keying and markup 2007-11 apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images 2008-02 robyn anspach sampled and proofread 2008-02 robyn anspach text and markup reviewed and edited 2008-09 pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion the quaeries examined , or , fifty anti-queries seriously propounded to the people called presbyterians . occasioned by the publication of fifty queries , gathered out of the works of mr. rich. baxter . by j. b. wherein the principal allegations usually brought to support infant-baptism are discovered to be insufficient . by t. g. prov . xix . 21. there be many devices in a mans heart , nevertheless the council of the lord that shall stand . mr. baxter more reas . p. 69. the true method of one that would arrive at certainty , and not deceive himself and others , is to begin at the bottom , and discern things in their nearest and most certain evidences , and afterward to try the by-objections as he is able : and not t● por●first upon the objected difficulties , and judge of all the cause by those . london , printed in the year of our lord 1676. the quaerist examined . or , fifty anti-queries seriously propounded to the people called presbyterians , &c. presbyterian . query 1. whether under the covenant of works , if adam had not sinned , innocents should not have been holy to god , and so members of the innocent church or kingdom of god ? baptist . antiquery 1. whether this be not a groundless and unlearned query ? for seeing the word church , as used in the holy scriptures , signifieth a people called out , namely , from another people , out of what people should they have been called , had the whole world been in the state of innocency ? and seeing no man can tell whether any man should have had authority committed to him in matters of religion , or whether god should immediately have exercised his own government ; neither yet in what capacity children should have come into the world , whether endowed with knowledge or otherwise ; whether therefore it concern or become any man , to let his fancy rove about in such an unknown and unknowable case . and thereupon , 1. suggest how infants should be concern'd or not concern'd in matters of religion ? and how can any thing be concluded from such an imagination , as imitable for us about infant church-membership ? and whether we are not like to have a bad superstructure , when the foundation is a meer fancy ? presbyterian . query 2. whether god was any more obliged to order it so , that the children of righteous parents should have been born with all the perfections of their parents , and enjoyed the same priviledges , than he was obliged in making the covenant of grace , to grant that infants should be of the same society with their parents , and have the immunities of that society . baptist . antiquery 2. more obliged : whether it be not in vain to suppose , that god was obliged at all in either of those cases , seeing he is absolutely free to do whatsoever he pl●aseth with his own ? and what ground have you to believe , that some infants were more concern'd then others in m●tters of religion , by vertue of any covenant made with adam ? and what society was infants capable of with adam , by vertue of any covenant made with him after his fall ? c●rtis the scripture is silent as to these matters , presbyterian . query 3. whether we have any reason , when the design of redemption is the magnifying of love and grace , to think that love and grace are so much less under the gospel to the members of christ , then under the law to the members or seed of adam , as that then all the seed should have partaken of the same blessings with their righteous parents , and now they shall all be turned out of the society , whereof the parents are members ? baptist . antiquery 3. whether you your selves do not lessen the magnifying love of god in mans redemption , whilest in respect of infants you would restrain it to the seed of such parents as are in covenant with god , yea to such infants as partake with them in practicals of religion , which you seem to intend by the blessings you speak of . but who denies any blessing to infants under the gospel , which was their portion under the law made with adam ? and how were infants members of the society of the seed of adam , more then of the society of the baptists ? shew the difference if you can . presbyterian . query 4. whether though our innocency be lost , parents be not parents still , and have not as much interest in children , and whether god have reversed this natural order ? and if god change not his order therein , whether parents be not as capable of consenting to grace for their children , as they were of being innocent for them ? baptist . antiquery 4. whether there be any that question whether parents be parents still , or what need of such enquiries ? or what do you mean by gods natural order ? if you mean natural religion , then shew us what infants are bound ro in matters of religion by natu●e , or what this natural order ties parents to do to their infants , upon the account of practicals in religion , which we omit ? and whether parents could be innocent for their infants , if their infants were not innocent as well as they ? and if not , how should their consenting to grace be the childs consent ? and whether it will not as well hold retro , that the parents consenting to wickedness is the childs consent ? and whether this do not give the parents the power to save or damn their infants ? and can such councils stand with the wisdom , justice , or mercy of god ? presbyterian . query 5. whether infants be not included in the first edition of the covenant of grace made with adam ? ( gen. 3. 15. ) whether unless it can be proved that infants are none of the womans s●ed , we must not take that fundamental promise to extend to infants ? and was she not thereby obliged to l●st her self , and all her infant-progeny in the redeemer's army , against the proclaimed enemy , and to teach her posterity to do the like ; and did they not continue visible members of christs army and kingdom , till such time as they violated that fundamental obligation , and as the seed of the serpent , fought against christ and his kingdom , for satan and his kingdom ? baptist . antiquery 5. whether the baptists do not as clearly assert infants right to the grace of god in the first edition of the covenant , made with adam , as any whatsoever ? and if by the seed of the woman you understand all that are saved , who then questions infants belonging to that seed ? but where is the woman bound to list her infants in the redeemers army , or where shall we finde them visible members of christs army in the first edition of the covenant ? are not these meer words without authority of scripture ? or where did infants ever fight for , or against the serpent ? and if not , why do you make them the seed of the serpent , and fighters against the kingdom of christ ? and if you say , you speak not these things of infants quatalis ; then whether you have not transferr'd the question , and so it is impertinent ? presbyterian . query 6. vvhether in that first proclamation of grace to fallen man , or in the first promise of redemption to sinners , gen. 3. 15. an infant of the vvoman be not promised to be general , and head of the church ? and whether the promise of an infant head , doth not declare gods mind , that he will have infants members , because the head is the principal member , &c. baptist . antiquery 6. whether christ in his infancy was not as truly god as man ? and whether there be any parity between the infants you speak of and christ , seeing he was able even then to vanqu●sh the greatest adversary ? and if by the redeemed church , you mean the whole number of the saved , who doubted but infants were of the redeemed church ? but how doth it follow , that all that are to be saved , ought to be mitted to practical ordinances in the visible church ? seeing then all infants ( for ought you know ) have the same right , which yet you d●ny ; but why so ? are you sure they are not within the verge of christs redemption ? and though christ was once an infant , yet where do you finde tha● he was then a member of the gospel church ? was he not born under the l●w ? gal. 4 4. and born king of the jews , mat. 2 2. and according to the state of the jew●sh church , an infant migh be both a member and a prince ; and was not the ki●gly office in israel a type of christ ? but what is this to he order and state of the church under the gospel ? and fur●her , tho●gh christ an infant was bo●n head of the church as aforesaid , yet in 〈◊〉 infant st●te , he did not intermeddle with the exercise of the least par● of h●s authority . and then whether it be not more r●tional to say , that seeing christ the head of the church did not act●ally poss●ss , or at least not use any part of that power , as an infant , or while he was an infant ? it s therefore unreasonable , th●t infants ( supposn ●h●y were as truly bo●n memb●rs of his church , as he wa● born king of the jews ) should be concern'd in the actual possession of ordi●ances in infancy ? and what if we grant that infants may be disciples by designation , a christ was king , priest and prophet by designation , ( ●ho●gh the cases not al●ke easie to prove ) yet seeing christ was not a prophet ( as you confess ) in actu exercito , how came you to be so bold to bring infants to the ex●rcise of baptism ? and why can you not rather content your selves with the designation or ded●ca●ion of your infan●s to god by prayer , and make them disciples in actu exercito , when they are able ? and whether you may not as well repute th●m thus among disciples , and as safely conclude them to be in the covenant of grace , and of the redeemed church without baptism , as without the lords supper ? sith it s said , except ye eat of the flesh of the son of god , and drink his blood , ye have no life in you ; as well as it is said , except a man be born again of water , &c. he cannot enter in●o the kingdom of god. and whether dr. taylor , a learned pedobaptist do not ingeniously confess , that the wit of man is not able to shew a difference in these cases ? presbyterian . query 7. why are those two titles put on those two distinct generations . ( sc●l . the posterity of cain , and the p●st●rity of seth ) calling one the sons of god , ●nd the others the daughters of men , gen. 6. 2. but that the one was a generation s●parated from the church from their birth , ( their progenitors being cast out before them ) when the other was the seea of saines not cast out , &c. baptist . antiqu. 7. whether this text gen. 6. 2. be not ambiguous , insomuch that your own doctors are not agreed about the exposition thereof ? but supposing it to respect the posterities of cain and se●h , yet whether it can be meant of infants , seeing they committed none of these si●s , in taking wives , &c. and whether your exposition do not damn all infants proceeding from cain●s posterity , and consequently all the infants of all nations which profess not the true religion ? and supposing that the infants of godly parents are in some sense more immediately related to the church , then the infants of pagans by reason of the prayers and designation of their parents , and the opportunities of education ? yet what makes this for any actual participation of ordinances in the church , and what one ordinance did the infants of these sons of god partake of ? and sith the scripture is wholly silent of any such thing , whether this do not more strongly conclude against infant-baptism then for it ? and whether it be needful to say any thing to the latter part of this query , seeing we grant all , and somthing more then this text will prove , though we deny them actual right to ordinances ? and whether the common or equal overthrow of these generations , in respect of the infants of both , do not evidently shew , that as to the business of their salvation , they were in the same condition ? and then whether it be safe for us to conclude , that the wickedness of any progenitors have any further effect upon the infant-ch●ldren then to expose them to external calamities , seeing christ died to redeem them from the condemnation brought upon them by adam ? rom. 5. 18. presbyterian . query 8. whether it was not the same church be●or● , and after abrahams time ; that was called the tents of sem ? gen. 19. 27. was not the jewish church denominated the tents of sem ? a●d does it not hence appear , that the church-priviledges of that people did not begin with or from abraham , but that they were b●for● ? and how was it the same church that was of s●m , and of abraham , if it had not the same sort of members or materials ? &c. baptist . antiqu. 8. though it be true , that the church is the same in some sence , from the beginn●ng of the world to the end ; yet whether it may not truly be said also , not to be the same in divers respects ? and whether the cov●nant as made with no●h , gen. 9. do not differ from the cov●nant as ma●e w●th adam , though both was made with all mank●nd , and is affirmed to be the c●venant of grace by mr. baxter . and whether there was not yet a further difference b●tween these and the covenant as made with abraham ? gen. 17. the former being made with all manking , and never yet abrogated , ( as saith mr. baxter ) . the other was made with abraham and his seed , distinct from the rest of mankind , but as they should be profelited thereto ? and though the church may be denominated the tents of shem , b●th before and after abraham , yet whether this conclude there was to be no alteration of the state of the church under these times respectively ? and whether in any of the tents of shem , before abrahams time , so much as any one infant can be found admitted to the practical part of any ordinance in the church , which was peculiar to her as such ( for as touching prayer , it is a moral duty , and to be made for all men . ) and whether thus boldly to suppose a thing without the least shew of proof , be not a plain begging the main thing in question ? and though it be never so true , that the universal redeemed church consist of the same materials in all ages , yet whether it be not evident that that god made a difference , as to the time of dispensing ordinances to them ? as first no practical ord●nance or 〈◊〉 dispensed to any infant that we read of till abrahams time ; and though then circumcision was ordained for males , yet not for all the male children , for all under eight days of age were prohibited , and yet you grant th●y were in that covena●t , nor any rite at all for the females , who yet were of the same church ? and whether under moses they were not admitted to other rites also , as the pass●over , sacrifices and other holy feast , of the jews ? we therefore ask you why the infants of converted gentiles are not in as good a condition , without any rite or ceremony , as the infants of all the faithful from adam to abraham ? and whether those infants before abraham were not a happy as the infants of abraham ? and then doth it not follow , that the infants of faithful gentiles , are as happy without circumcision , or any other rite or ●eremony whatsoever , as abrahants was under a ceremony , seeing god hath not ohliged them to any in the days of the gospel , o● since the ab●ogation of the law and circumcision ? presbyterian . query 9. whether if we could shew no written law or promise at first constituting the duty , or granting the priviledge of church-member ship , it were the least disparagement to our cause , as long as we can shew those following , laws which presuppose this ? if moses at the end of that 2000 years the church of god had bin without any written law , found all the infants of church-members in possession of this b●n●fit 〈◊〉 what n●ed was there of a new law about it ? or why should god promise it as a new thing ? baptist . antiqu. 9. whether if there be any such law , you would not have she wed us where it is , longere this day ? and whethen you do not now grant in effect there is no such written law ? and what n●ed you thus to query , seeing we deny no lawful thing to infants , to be done for them by their godly parents , but only oppose your doing that for which you have no law ? presbyterian . query 10. whether there being certain proof in scripture of infants church-membership , but none except that before , alledged from gen. 3. that makes any mention of the beginning of it , but all speaking of it as no new thing ; we have not great reason to assign its beginning , which from gen. 3. is before spoken of ? baptist . antiqu. 10. why do you say that gen. 3. 15. makes mention of infants church-membership , ( otherwise then what we allow ) is here the least hint of your mode of making infants church-members , that is , doth this place bid you admit them to any ordinance ? as for the gracious covenant here made with adam . do we not grant that it extends to infants , yea , we say with mr. baxter , it was never abrogated ? presbyterian . query 11. is it not unquestionable , that the covenant of grace made to abraham the father of the faithful , comprehended infants for church-members ? and was 〈◊〉 not the same with that gen. 3. 1. 5. but in some things clearlier opened ? were not both these the covenant of grace and free justification by faith in the redeemer ? and did not the covenant made to abraham and his seed , comprehend infants ? and should not the same promise , expressed more concisely be expounded by the same expressed more sully ? baptist . an. 11. though it be unque stionable that the covenant of grace did extend to infants , gen. 3. 15. as well as in abrahams time , yet there was a vast difference in respect of ceremonies . and whether the difference between the baptists and p●dobaptists be not chi●fly ( if not only ) about imposing ceremonies upon infants ? and whether it be not evident that what ceremonies the word of god did even assign to infants , we allow them , respecting the time of their duration , and only oppose your imposing ceremonies upon infants , for which you can assign no authority in the holy scriptures , as is confessed by many pedobaptists . see mr. baxters cure p. 7. presbyterian . query 12. whether ( though the hebrews had their peculiarities ) it be at all credible , that the infants of that one small countrey only should be so differently de●lt with by god , from all the world else , even enoch's , noah'● , sem's , and all from adam to the end of the world , that these infants only should be church-members , and n● others . baptist . antiqu. 12. whether this query ( as indeed almost all the rest ) do not mis the true state of the case , seeing the baptists may and do in a good sence acknowledge infants to be related to the churc● . viz. by redemption , pious dedication to god. &c. and seeing you grant the hebrew , had their peculiarities , in what thing could it be but in external rites and ceremonies , especially concerning infants ; and shew us , if you can , any one nation under heaven , from the beginning of the world to this day , to whom god gave any law to bring their infants to any rites either legal or evangelical . and sith circumcision was forcibly put upon infants , we ask whether you be able to prove , that any person whatsoever are to be forced to baptism , which augustine tells us . infants do strive against with great crying , from whence he infers they have no faith. lib. de pe●cat . mer. & remis . chap. 28. presbyterian . query 13. what can be more absurd , then to maintain a transient fact ( as mr. t. hath done ) making infants church-members , without any law , promise , ●r covenant-gra●t of god giving them r●ght ? whether a gift that was never given be not a contradiction ? ( v. p. 32 , 35 ▪ 39 44 , 45 , 151. ) and if there was any such promise , or covenant-grant of infant 's church-membership , when , or where was it revoked ? baptist . antiqu. 13. whether these things be surely suggested against mr. t , and whether you ought not to have set down his opinion in his own words ? and whether he doth not mainly oppose himself against mr. baxter's pretended law for infant church-membership and baptism , whiles yet he denies not infants a saving promise , or the promise of saving prepriety in god. antipedobapt . 3. part. p. 33. and whether that book was ever answered by mr. baxter , or ever will by any other ? presbyterian . query 14. was it only the infants of the hebrews , or of those that were at their absolute dispose , that were church-members ? vvere not the infants of free proselites church-members too ? baptist . antiqu. 14 , what need of this query ? who doubts but that as many others as became jews by being proselited to the law , were circumcised according to the law ? but where do yo● find , that any , either jews or gentiles , when they were baptized , had any , obligation to baptize their children and servants also ? presbyterian . query 15. vvas it not then the duty of all the nations round about , that could have informati●n of the jewish religion , to engage themselves , and their children to god by circumcision ? and did not many of the people in hester's time become jews , hest . 8. 17. who yet were not under their government ? and is it not well known , that this was to be circumcised , they and their little ones , ( as the proselites were ) and so to keep the law of moses ? and whether the circumcised servants of israel , sold away to another nation , and so separated from the civil state of israel , did eo nomine cease to be church-members , though they for sook not god ? and ●o of the infants , if they were sold in infancy ? and so whether infants might not be church-members , that were not of the jews common-wealth ? baptist . antiqu. 15. although other nations had the liberty to become jewes , yet whether they were under such an obligation , as that they must become jewes , or else not be saved , is worthy consideration ; and whether the contrary will not be found true , when the case of cornelius , act. 10. and of the gentiles , rom. 2. are duely considered , whereas the one is accepted as fearing god and working righteousness , as much as the jew upon the account of his jewish worship ? and the other gentiles generally , who did by nature the things contained in the law , were counted the circumcision , so as to judge the jew , who only had the circumcision in the flesh ? and not only so , but so as to be accepted of god , as far ( at least ) as the righteousness of the law would avail the jew ? and whether the infants of these devout gentiles was not free from any obligation to circumcision , or any other external ceremony ? and whether there be not an evident difference between the law and the gospel in this , the one being fitted to the jewish nation only , so as to be capable of an orderly observation there only ? and the gospel fitted sor the observation of all nations equally , and consequently all nations equally obliged to the full and orderly profession thereof ? presbyterian . query 16. vvere not the israelites children members of the universal visible church , as well as of the congregation of israel ? as he that is a member of the city is a member of the kingdom and a part of a part , is a part of the whole ; so was not ever member of the jews church also a member of gods universal church ? baptist . ant. 16. whether it be well said to call the universal church visible , and whether the universal church did not contain many thousands such , as job , cornelius , &c , who were neither jews by nature nor religion ? and whether no infants might be said to be members of the universal church , who were not members of the jewish church ? and if not , how shall they be saved , seeing christ is only the saviour of his body finally ? presbyterian . query 17. was there ever any true church , or ecclesiastical worshipping society appointed by god in all the world since the fall , but the church of christ ? were not infants therefore either members of christs church , or of no church of gods institution ? was not moses christs vsher , and moses church and christ's church one according to god's institution ? baptist . antiqu. 17. whether this query be not either captious , or else impertin●nt ? for though it should be granted , that the church of christ was the same in some sence from the beginning , yet who knows not that the time and way for admission of the members thereof to external ceremonies , was not always the same ? and who doubts but the church was always of gods institution ? but doth it therefore follow , that the ordinances instituted therein , belongs to infants ? might they not have the passeover , as well as circumcision , in the mosaical church , and yet have neither the lords supper nor baptism in the christian church ? you deny them the one , why may not we as well deny the other ? baptist . query 18. whether was abraham made a member of the church by circumcision , or circumcised because a member of the church ? the like of infants born in his house ? and how can the ceasing of circumcision prove infants church-membership ceased , any more then it can prove their church-membership began with circumcision ; or that women were not church-members , because not circumcised ; or that all israel was unchurched in the vvilderness , when they were uncircumcised for fourty years ? baptist . antiqu. 18. although abraham was in the church of god essentially by faith , yet whether formally in that church-st●te , vvhich god was then about to settle , till circumcised , vvill not , i suppose , be hastily affirmed ? and how can infants be said to be in the church , as abraham then was , seeing they have no faith as he had ? and whether the jewish church-state did not cease de jure , when circumcision so ceased ? and then whether that state of infant church-membership did not also cease ? and like as the ceasing of the passeover de jure , was the ceasing of infants right to any such ordinance , even so we ask why the ceasing of circumcision de jure , is not as truly the ceasation of infants right to any such ordinance ? certainly , if gods word assign any ordinances in lieu of the former , the place where 't is written would have b●en known to this day ? presbyterian . query 19. vvhether the blessing of abraham consists not chiefly in this , that god promised to be a god in covenant with him , and his seed ? and how are the believing gentiles blessed with faithful abraham , and heirs of the same promise , if their infants are not also comprehended in the same covenant ? baptist . antiqu. 19. whether the blessing of abraham , ( if you understand it of eternal life ) were not the blessing of the fathers that were before him ? and whether that blessing did not belong to their infants ? and whether their infants were partakers with them in any rites or ceremonies of instituted worship ? and if not , then , why may not the infants of the gentiles partake of the blessing of abraham , though not concern'd in rites or ceremonies ? or whether you think the blessing of abraham is confined to ceremonies in respect of infants , if so , shew us what ceremonies these are ? presbyterian . query 20. whether in that great promise , gen. 12. 3 tribes , kindreds , families , do not most certainly comprehend infants ? as it was to such families that the promise was made before christ , as to the jewish church ? vvhat warrant have we to understand families or tribes otherwise , when the same promise is made to the gentiles ? baptist . antiq. 20. whether you ought not to distinguish in this great promise , the things which are eternal from the things that were but for a time ? and then whether you can ima●in● , that all the temporal blessings , rites and ceremonies , ●oncern●d any nation , as it concerned the seed of abraham after the flesh ? but if by this promise you understand it as the apostle paul doth , gal. 3. 16. th●n we doubt not but all the kindreds of the earth are con●●●n'd in it ; and then whether we do not sufficiently comprize the ●●ntiles therein ? but how can abrahams rites and c●remonie● be part of this blessing to the gentiles , which are abrogated long ago ? presbyterian . query 21 , whether the second commandment , exod. 20 , 5 , 6. doth not contain a standing promise , and discove●y of gods resolution , concerning the children of all that love him , whether jews or gentiles , to whom this commandment belongs ? whether god meaneth not that his retribution to parents that love or hate him , shall extend to their children as such ; unless they interrupt it at age by their own acts ; and if to their children qua tales , then whether not to infants ? baptist . ant. 21. whoever doubted but that infants are advantaged many ways , in the blessings which god bestows on them that fear him ? and accordingly greatly disadvantaged by the wickednefs of their pa●●nts , even so as to bear their fathers iniquities many times , as is evident in the overthrow of the old world , the cities of sodom and samorrah , &c. yet whether the blessing or mercy of eternal life to ●nfants , depend upon the parents love to god ? and whether the ●amnation of infants depend on the wickedness of their parents ? ●nd whether the bless●ngs of the second commandment belong 〈◊〉 to the church as such , or whether all men that follow the ●ules of morality , are not within the reach of these blessings also ? ●nd then how should infant church membership and baptifm be 〈◊〉 blessings of the second commandment seeing this law concerns 〈◊〉 men as m●n being part of the moral law , and is not proper to ●he church only ? presbyterian . query 22. vvhether any without the church are secured of gods mercy by p●omise ? and whether mercy be not promised to the children of the f●ithsul as such ? ( see p●al . 102. 28. and 103. 17. prov. 20. 7. isa . 61. 8 , 9 and 65 23 &c ) ? baptist . antiqu. 22. whether god hath not said that his ways are all equal ? and whether this do not secure infants of gods mercy , though not baptized ? ( for otherwise we say infants are of the redeemed church ? when god saith , that the son shall not bear the iniquity of the father , and every one shall bear his own iniquity , whether this be not a promiss of mercy to infant children , and that in respect of etern●l life ? and whether the query be not near a kin to that position of the papists when they say , out of the church there is no salva●ion , restraining that word church to visible or actual professors only ? and why must these five quotations be applied to infants only , sith the things spoken of these children , seed , or off-spring , are mostly such as are exclusive of infants ? presbyterian . query 23. whether these promises in the making of them were limited to a certain time when they were to cease ? or whether they have been since revoked ? baptist . suppose these promises yet remain , as we doubt not but they do , sith they are not entail'd upon the jewish nation , ( at least the three first quotations , ) how will this avail to the point in hand ? are all the blessings of god to the infant off-spring of those that fear him , &c. bound up in your supposed church-membership and baptism ? presbyterian . query 24. if it was on the jews rejection of christ , that they were broken off from being gods people , were those thousands of jews that believed in christ so broken off ? if not , then whether were not the children of all believing jews church-members in infancy ? or otherwise , was it not somewhat else then vnbelief that brake them off ? baptist . antiqu. 24. whether was those that cried , his blood be upon us and our children , thereby rejecting the great mess●nger of the covenant , ●ustly broken off ? and whether the renting of the vail of the temple , did not shew the abrogation of the covenant and the legal ministry ? whether was saul broken off when he persecuted the church causing many to blaspheme ? and how could the jews lawfully be married to christ , if moses was not now removed , without being called an adulteress ? and then whether those thousands of jews which believed were not first broken off , so as to plead no longer upon this issue , we are abrahams children , we are free-born , &c. and to look upon circumcision and whatsoever was gain to them on a legal acco●nt , to be loss for christ ? or is there any other way to be graffed in to the church of christ , but by faith ? nowtherefore seeing the jews were in no better case then th● gentiles , circumcision being now nothing , even as uncircumcision was nothing , b●ta new creature ? then whether all the infants of the jews now ceas●● to be m●mbers of any visible church , seeing ●heir parents had de jure lost their memb●rship ? presbyterian . query 25. were not the infants of the christian jews the day before their conversion members of the jewish church , and of gods universal church , ( of which the jews were but a part ? and doth it not sound strengely , that such infants as were the day before members of the jewish church , and of gods universal church , should be put out of the jewish and the whole visible church , by the faith of their parents , or without unbelief ? either it was a mercy to be a member , of the church , or not : if it was no mercy , then will it not follow , that the unbelieving jews lost nothing by being broken off ? if it was a mercy , how did the christians children forfeit it ? baptist . antiqu. 25. whether we have not sufficiently shewed , that the infants of the jews were now no members of the jewish church , that being now abrogated , and the gospel church state confirmed by the death of christ , and the pouring out of the holy ghost ; neither could two distinct church states stand together de jure . and then whether it be not a great mistake for the q●aerist to suppose the jews were a part of gods universal church , when in truth they were no church at all ? and therefore whether the wonder which he makes about the jews infants which believed , be not groundless ? and yet whether the infants of the believing jews were not in a far better estate , then when their parents were unbelievers , sith the curse they then had imprecated , was now removed ? also whether it was not a mercy , that both parents and infants were set free from circumcision , which whatever it was before , now ceased to be a mercy to any man , because it was an obligation to the yoke of bondage , and rendred christ unprofitable to such as should now receive it ; and consequently a release from that church-membership according to the law , was a great mercy to infants , who still retain membership in the invisible church , as they did before circumcision was in being ? presbyterian . query 26. whether it be credible , that he who came not to cast out jews , but to bring in gentiles , breaking down the partition-wall , and making of two one church , would have a chureh of so different form and constitution , that the church at jerusalem should have infant-members , and the church at rome should have none ? that the jews infants should be members , and not gentiles ? if the jews were broken off by unbelief , should they not be graffed in again upon their repentance of faith ? and so should not every repenting believing jews infants be church-members ? or otherwise how would their graffing in answer to their breaking off , should they be but in part graffed in ? baptist . antiqu. 26. whether it be not a great mistake to say , that christ came to make the jew and gentile one church , otherwise then by taking away the jewish church , and making all things new , 2 cor. 5. 17. &c. and whether this might not be done without setling any of the practical ordinances upon infants as under the law ? if otherwise , why have you not shewed us where christ hath required parent● to get their infants baptized ? and where he forbade them to be brought to imposition of hands , the table of the lord , &c. if the denial of the first make our infants no members of the church , doth not your denial of the other two , which do as generally pertain to members of the church , make yours none also ? and if the church at jerusalem , rome , &c. had any infant-members therein , in the sence wherein you would have them members , why do you not name some one infant so made a member , sith you know it would suffice , wherher if the jews grafting in , must in all points answer to their breaking off , their infants must not come to other ordinances as well as baptism ? or will you say infants cannot partake with their parents of salvation without baptism ? or whether was the infants of the jews exposed to damnation by their parents unbelief ? and if so , what is become of all their infants ever since ? presbyterian . query 27. was not christ church spiritual before his incarnation ( when it took in infants ) and gathered in a spiritual way ? was not ●he visible frame of the jewish church set up and erected by the father of spirits , and were not spiritual duties commanded then ▪ upon promises of spiritual blessings , even lise eternal ? how will any prove that it was a blemish to the old frame , that infants were members ? what was the church the worse for infants rights ? if it be no blemish , why must it be done away ? baptist . antiqu. 27. though it be true , that christs church was always spiritual in some measure , and his services such also ; yet whether it be not also true , that the church under the law of moses was carnal , in respect of the spirituality of the church under the gospel ? does not the apostle say , 2 cor. 3. these two ministrations differ as much as letter and spirit differeth ; and that the glory of the one had no glory in respect of the glory which excelleth ? and is it not then rational , that the churches concern'd under these ministrations respectively should differ aecordingly ? and though it was no blemish to the jewish church , to have infants partakers of their ordinances , which are called carnal , yet whether it be not a more perfect state , when the church do al● know god , from the least to the greatest of them ? and whether this be not the state of the church under the gospel , according to gods appointment ? heb. 8. 10 , 11 , 12 , 13. and whether that which is less perfect ought not to vanish away when that which is more perfect is come . in that he saith a new covenant , he hath made the first old , now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away , heb. 8. 13. presbyterian . query 28. in what regard were the new frame better , supposing the casting out of infants , which were in the old ? how doth infants relation detract from its spirituality ? do not the adult come in by ●he same kind of consent for themselves , as they make for their infants ? and do not the adult blemish the church with more carnal sins then infants do ? would any kingdom be more excell●nt , if all infants were disfranchised ? does not nature teach all kingdoms on earth , to take them f●r members , though but infant-members ? baptist . antiqu. 28. whether it be necessary to say infants are cast out of that whereof they were never possessed , to wit , the use of ordinances in the new frame of the church ? or how can infants be said to be a spiritual seed ? how are they living stones , built up a spiritual house ; to offer spiritual sacrifices in a gospel sense ? or how are your infants a more spiritual seed then our infants ? and whether any other are by christs order to partake in gospel-ordinances , then such as therein worship god spiritually ? and whether hence it be not clear , that the way of making infants church-members do not detract from the spirituality of the new frame of the church ? also where hath god required the adult to consent for their insant church m●mbership in this new frame ? and whether the comparison between an earthly kingdom and the ghurch of christ be any way fitting , seeing infants have as much need of the priviledge of humane laws , for the preservation of their lives and rights as grown persons ? but how stand they in need of the laws of the church , ( and particularly baptism ) for the preservation of their souls . and whether this similitude may not be emproved against you , seeing infants , though members of kingdomes , yet are excused from all duties personal wbatsoever , and then why may they not be reputed of the kingdom of god , and yet exempt from the duties of his kingdom ? or how come they to be concern'd so much in that one duty of baptism , and no other whatsoever ? presbyterian . query 29. whether any jew at age was a member of the old church without professing faith , ( in the articles then necessary to salvation ) repentance and obedience ? and wherein the supposed new call and frame doth in this differ from the old , save only that a more full and express revelation of christ requireth a more full express faith ? is it not evident , that they were to profess consent to gods covenant , which who so denied asa would put to death ? and was not circumcision a covenanting act ? and did they not thereby prosess to take god for their god ? or would god else have taken them for his people ? and would not renouncing god have cut them off ? baptist . antiqu. 29. what is become now of your infant church-membership ; if when grown up they cease to be members upon that account ? were the jews infants twice made members of their church ? or is every renewing the covenant , ( as in the case of asa , ) making men members of the church ? but where did the church ever admit one member to her communion by baptism without profession ? or where did she ever decree , that those who would not submit to her new frame should be put to death ? and whether in this the new frame of the church do not greatly differ from the old ? presbyterian . query 30. whether gods law obligeth not persons to devote themselves , and their infants to god , by consenting to gods covenant for themselves and them ? whether it was not the duty of the israelites to engage and devote their children to god in covenant ? whether this be not evident from the penalty ( even to be cut off from his people ) annexed for the non-performance ? ( and whether this be not as much our duty still ? ) does not the law of nature bind us to give to every one his own due ? and are not infants god's own due ? does not the law of nature bind parents to give them up to god by acknowledging his right , with a free resignation and dedication of the inf●n● to god as his own ? baptist . antiq. 30. where are christian parents required to devote their children by consenting to any covenant for them ( or in their stead , as the jews were in matters of religion : and what penalty hath god imposed on them that devote not their insants by sprinkling them as you do ? and whether we do omit the duty of devoting our children to god in any thing wherein the law of god or nature obligeth us , ( abating us all what must be abated ) ? and who denies infants to be capable of infant-relation , obligation or right , or who opposes their being devoted to god in their capacity ? and whether this be not a meer noise of words , as if all that do not as you do , do lay a side their care and duties towards infants ? and where is the institution of your publick way ? have we not a more certain instituted way to devote them to god by prayer , and to educate them in his fear , as they are capable , then you have to cross or sprinkle them ? presbyterian . query 31. whether anabaptists themselves , all of them that are truly pious , do not vertually ( though not actually ) devote their children to god , and consent to their covenant-relation , while they vehe●ently plead against it ? baptist . antiqu. 31. whether you do not greatly wrong your self , and those you call anabaptists , in saying , they vehemently plead against devoting their children to god ; yea sure , they do it actually as far as gods word requires ? and can you believe , that there is no way to devote children to god but in your way ? how then did adam , enoch , scth , noah , &c. devote their children to god ? and it would do well also if you could shew us how they consented to any covenant for their infants , more then we do ? or prove if you can , that you your selves do consent to the covenant of grace for your infants , more then we whom you call anabaptists ? does not eusebius pamphilius count christianity as old as adam ? l. 1. c. 1. and doth not tertullian say , enoch justissimum non circumcisum nec sibbatizantem , &c. enochan upright man was translated by god , though he were not circumcised , neither yet did observe the sabba●h . -- vt aeternitas candidatis , &c. to the end , that he who did aspire to eternity might shew us , that we might please god without the burthen of moses law. and what law ( save the la● of circumcision ) did ever require infants to be brought to practical ordinances in the church of god ? presbyterian . query 32. is it not a desperate undertaking , and dare any adventure on it , to justifie all the world before christs incarnation , except the jews , from the guilt of not dedicating their children to god ? and do not they that say there is no law in this case , say there is no transgression ? a●d dare any in like manner undertake to justifie at the bar of god all the vvorld since christs incarnation from the guilt of sin , in not dedicating their children'to christ , and entring them into his covenant as members of his church ? dare any maintain that all the world is sinless in this respect ? baptist . antiq. 32. whether this be not a very unwise query ? as if none of the fathers did dedicate their infants to god , unless they brought them to some practical ordinance in the church , which is the only thing you do so complain of ? and how , i pray you , did abraham , isaac and jacob dedicate their female infants to god , sith we finde no practical ordinance for them in infancy ? or who goes about to justifie the world , if they do not as the law of god and nature wills them to do for their infants ? and may we not well justifie all men , for not doing that which the law of god never required ? presbyterian . query 33. is it not a great benefit and priviledge to be a visible church-member of christ as head of the church , and of his church as visible ? is it not abenefit in it self ( besides the consequents ) to be visibly united and related to christ and his body ? is not such a relation to god the father , son and holy ghost , and to the church , an honor ? and how great is the misery of a contrary state ? and if infant church-membership were no benefit , then how were they that had it , ( when they came to age , or their parents in the mean time ) obliged to any thankfulness for it ? will any say , that neither they nor their parents were obliged to thankfulness upon this account ? baptist . antiqu. 33. what benefit is it to bring infants to that which god requires not of them ? or whether it be any loss to them till god requires it ? and seeing you make your pedo-rantism this all in all , shew us what benefit or priviledge you had when sprinkled , more then the infants of a pious baptist ? and what is that benefit that all who are sprinkled by the papists ▪ do receive , which you ratifie for good baptism ? or how are their infants church-members more then ours ? and whether our children when grown up , have not a fairer way to the purity of christianity , in that they are not entangled with such traditions ? presbyterian . query 34. is it not certain that infants are capable of this benefit , if god deny it not , but will give it them as well as the aged ? and is it not certain , that they are actually members of all the commonwealths in the world ? ( perfecte , sed imperfecte membra ) and does not nature seem actually to have taught most people on earth , to repute their infants in the same religiou● society with themselves , as well as in the same civil society ? baptist . antiqu. 34. that infants are capable of what god will give them is very true ; and we therefore ask , whether infants be not as capable of the lords supper as baptism , if the lord will give it them ? and as far as gods will is , that infants should be related to his church , we doubt not of their capacity for it . and why is the order of commonwealths so much insisted on in this case ? are we to fetch our rules for dispensing ordinances in the church , from the civil policie of nations ? we desire you still to show us what the law of nature obligeth us to do for our infants , which we do not ? is both the law of god and nature broken by all that bring not their infants to be crossed or sprinkled as you do ? sure you can never make this good . baptist . query 35. whether according to the tenour of the covenant of grace , god will not vouchsafe to be their god , and take them for his people , ( that are in a natural , or law-sense ) willing to be his people , and take him for their god ? and whether the infants of believing parents are not thus willing ? when infants cannot be actually willing themselves in a natural sense , must not the reason and will of another be theirs in law-sense , that is , of the parents , have the full dispose of them , and are warranted by the law of nature to choose for them ( for their good ) till they come to the use of reason themselves . whether in gods acceptance the child doth not thus truly consent by the believing parents , and doth not covenant with god , as a child covenanteth and consenteth reputatively among men , who by his parents is made a party in contract , as in a lease for his life , or the like ? and so granting the relation of church-membership , to be founded in a mutual contract , covenant or consent betwixt god and us , yet must not this consent on our part differ according to the different age and capacity of infants , and the adult ? were not the israelites infants church-members , who consented not actually in their own persons , but virtually , and reputatively ? baptist . antiqu. 35. we still require you to shew where this law is , that obligeth christians to will the baptizing of their infants , and that will warrant the baptizing of one person by vertue of anothers will ? and why may not a reputative baptism serve as well as a reputative covenant , sith the covenant is greater then baptism ? and whether this be an advised speech , that the parent hath the whole disposal of his child in matters of religion ? and who must judge what is good for his infant in religious matters ? must not gods word do this ? and shew us what command we have omitted , in not bringing our infants to the font as you do ? or do you think that your instance of a lease , is sufficient to rectifie mens consciences in matters of this nature ? and what if some of the jews had failed to consent for their children , were they therefore not in covenant ? sure it was the law , not the parents consent , that regulated these matters . neither do we finde , that the israelites were bound to repent and believe in the person of the child , and accordingly to make profession in his name , when circumcised , as you do at the font when you pretend to baptize your infants , when yet you baptize them not , seeing sprinkling cannot be truly called baptism ? presbyterian . query 26. whether it be not the duty of parents by the law of nature , to accept of any allowed or offered benefit for their children ? the infant being not sui juris , but at his parents dispose in all things that are for his good , have not the parents power to oblige their children to any future duty or suffering , that is certainly for their own good ? and so may they not enter them into covenants accordingly ? and is it not unnaturally sinful for a parent to refuse to do such a thing , when it is to the great benefit of his own child ? and doth it not deserve to be called the unthankful error , that opposeth childrens rights , and blessings ? baptist . antiqu. 36. whether this query be not the same in effect , which we have had again and again ? and we would know what offered benefits the infant of the pedobaptists meet with , among the papists , or your selves either , which we received not , meerly for this cause of not doing to our infants , as they and you are pleased to do ? and whether it were not as reasonable for parents to be baptized in the childs stead , as to profess faith and repentance for him ? and whether it be reasonable for a parent to oblige his infant to be of his opinion and practice , and to suffer for the same ? and what law of god requires this , and whether this may not be called the unreasonable errour ? presbyterian . query 37. vvhether it may be thought , or any dare maintain , that the covenant of grace giveth no conditional right to any infant in the world ? are they all excluded ? and why ? are they worse then their parents ? if it give any right to infants conditionally , as it doth t● parents , must it not be on a condition to be performed by the parents , or such as are so far entrusted ? or can this be called a covenant , for god only to say [ i will save all such infants as i elect ] and yet offer salvation to none of them in the world on any condition , nor give a title to any person that can be known by themselves or others ? would it not be to confound the decree of god with his covenant ? and what right or hope doth this give to christians for their children more then to pagans ? baptist . antiqu. 37. whether it may be thought that god should require the conditions of the covenant of grace on them , which he knows can observe none at all ; or whether it be his will , that the grace of that covenant should depend upon others observation of the conditions for them ? and whether this be not to put the salvation of infants out of his own hand , and into the hand of such as commonly neglect their own ? and is not this to expo●e poor infants to ruine , whose parents generally are so far from keeping , that they are strangers to the conditions of this covenant ? and where are we taught to doubt the salvation of the infants of pagans ? or to conclude ours only are in the state of salvation ? and is it not much more secure to hope the salvation of infants on the ground of christs dying for them , and rising again for their justification ▪ then upon any practical in religion ? and where did god ever since the beginning of the world , give any ordinance to be necessary to the salvation of any infant in the world ? can you believe that the cutting off of the uncircumcised man-child , was a cutting off from salvation ? how then were all the infants saved which were born to the israelites for fourty years together , such of them , i mean , as died during that time ? and why may not infants as well be made righteous without any thing done on their part , as they were made sinners without any thing done on their part ? will not the second adams obedience salve the first adams disobedience ? and may not poor infants better plead in the day of judgement what christ did for them , then what your godfathers or proparents did for them ? presbyterian . query 38. though all that are saved , are saved by the meritorious righteousness of christ , by way of free gift ; yet whether the condition be not a suteable acceptance ? and why may not a parent accept a donation for his child , who hath no will to accept it for himself ? shall he be certainly shut out unto damnation ? or shall he have that gift absolutely which is conditional to all others ? or is he not concerned in the donation at all ? and have not infants guilt and misery from their parents ? and though life and pardon be by christ only , yet is it not congruous , that the meer condition of acceptance may b● performed by the parents , ( while they cannot accept for themselves ? ) baptist . antiq. 38. whether the meritoriousness of christ is not as available to save infants without any mans acceptance thereof for them ▪ or whether hath god ty'd the salvation of any person to the acceptance of another ? and whether these be not unreasonable and unscriptural conceits ? and whether it be not for want of better grounds for infant-baptism , that you thus continually tautologize , varying little from that which you have said once and again ? presbyterian . query 39. ( whether it be no advantage for children to be under an early engagement to god , and jesus christ ? ) whether to dedicate them betimes to god , doth not tend to secure god's right and childrens good , and to prevent their sin and misery ; they being thus under a double obligation , which they may be minded of betimes , and which may hold them more strongly to their duty , and disadvantage the tempter that would draw them off from god , &c ▪ baptist . antiqu. 39. who is against as early an engagement of children to god as can lawfully be made ▪ and do not the baptists engage their children to god as soon as they can , by prayer and supplication whiles infants ; and then by the best education they are able when docible ? but whether any thing be done to purpose in your judgement ( when yet all is done that can be done ) unless it be rantized in your way ? and whether it be not b●tter to leave the event of their accepting baptism to the wise dispose of god , then to do it per force in infancy , without precept from god ? also whether the infant-baptism be such a means to propagate religion as you suppose , may be seen , when you consider how in the darkness of popery , pedobaptism was more common then now , but christianity much less ? and name one if you can , that was bettered in christian vertue by pedobaptism ? we think we can name one , and that your self , which is worse for it , for had you not that to rest on , you would probably desire to put on christ in baptism ? whether it be not the fittest time to be buried with christ in baptism , when we are dead with him from the rudiments of the world , or whether it be reasonable to bury sinners therein till they be dead to sin ? and whether it can profit any person to be baptized , unless he have the answer of a good conscience , by the resurrection of christ from the dead , 1 pet. 3. therein ? presbyterian . query . 40. whether it can be proved , that ever there was one age or church ( particular ) on earth since adam , till about 200 years ago , that the anabaptists rose , wherein infants de facto were not members of the church ? baptist . antiqu. 40. whether in your sense of making infants members of the church de facto , it can be proved there was any one so made a member from the beginning of the world till abrahams time ? and whether john baptist , christ , or any by his order , did receive infants into the church de facto . and whether the baptist do not better prove the antiquity of their faith and practice in baptism then any aedo baptist in the world ? and doth not your conscience tell you , that the baptism of men and women , upon profession of faith and repentance , is beyond the reach of contradiction ? whilest m. baxter himself confesses infant-baptism to be so difficult , that many of its assertors , both protestants and papists , are forced to confess it cannot be proved by the scriptures ? see his cure p. 7. and seeing you and we are generally agreed , that our way both for subject and manner is out of dispute , clear in the scriptures ; and you confess by the pen of mr. baxter , that yours is very difficult , is it not reason the difficult way should give place to the clear and evident way ? presbyterian . query 41. vvhether it can be proved , that ever there was any one i●fant of true church-members , that was not rightfully a church-member himself from the creation till christ's days ? or from the creation till this day ; except the anabaptists , who reject the benefit , whose case we will not presume to determine ? baptist . antiqu. 41. whether this query be not the same we had before ? and whether what is said to it , may not also suffiee to this ? presbyterian . query 42. seeing that infants have been de facto church-members from the creation to this day ( as far as any records can lead us ) is it likely , that the lord , and head , and all-sufficient governour of his church , would have permitted his church till now , to be actually made up of such subjects , as in regard of age be disallowed , and suffered his church to be wrong framed till now ? or is it a reasonable , modest and lawful undertaking , to go about now in the end of the world to make god a new framed church . as to the age of the subjects ? and is it not more modest and safe , to live quietly in a church of that frame , as all the saints of heaven lived in , till the other day , as a few anabaptists did attempt an alteration ? baptist . antiqu. 42. whether it be not utterly untrue , that infants were members of the church de facto , i.e. to be brought to partake of ordinances practical in the church , save only from abraham to the end of the law ? and whether all the pedobaptists in the world have not hitherto been unable to shew any one instance before abraham , or since the law was abrogated , so much as one infant admitted to any such ordinance in the church of ●od , according to what the scriptures afford in thi● 〈◊〉 ? and ●●●her it be not as modest in us to labour to restore ●●ptism to its pure use in the church , both in respect of the subject and manner of administration thereof , as it was for the protestants to do the like in respect of the lords supper ? also whether your pretending the authority of the universal church , be not the same figment , with which the papists deceived themselves and others ? and how can you pretend the universal church , when the primitive church is on our side ? presbyterian . query 43. whether considering christs own infant-mem●●rship , and his kind reception of infants , and his chiding those that would have kept them off , and his offers of taking in all the jewish nation , ( matth. 23. 37. ) and that they were broken off by unbelief , and consequently the seed of believers broken off from the church vniversal , and that whole housholds are oft said to be baptized , and that paul pronounceth believers children holy , and that christ ( mat. 28. ) commanded his ministers , as much as in them lieth , to disciple all nations baptizing them , & c ? baptist . antiqu. 43. whether christs infants church-membership did not pertain to the jewish church only , gal. 4. 4. born under the law only , &c. and whether he was not about 30 years when he entred in our profession , heb. 3. 3. the apostle and high priest of our profession christ jesus . see luke 3. and then whether his example be not flat against you ? also whether christs only praying for infants , and not baptizing them though brought to him , neither ordering any other to do it that we reade of , do not shew us that infants may be under the blessings of christ without baptism ? and whether you may not tremble to presume to do more then he did , or appointed to be done ? are you wiser then he ? also whether it lies within the power of any minister to disciple an infant ; or shew us one infant with you , or any pedo-baptist ever made a disciple ? or be pleased to come and make my infants disciples if you can , and i promise you i will assist you what i can in the baptizing them ? and not only so , but do my best to employ you elsewhere , i speak it seriously . and whether this would not do more to decide the controversie , then all the books that are written by any of you ? and if you cannot do this , how will matth. 28. 19. warrant you to baptize infants , sith its plain that discipling goes before baptizing ? and how disciples are to be made we think it best to learn of jesus , john 4. 3. how think you ? do you indeed believe , that any person being of the nation , entitles them to● b●ptism ? why then who is not a fit subject , seeing all infants ●nd men too are of one nation or another ? and if there be other qualifications necessary , whether to be taught be not one of the chief of them ? and why do you say we take infants away from christs church , because we baptize them not ; are they in it before baptized ? if so , how do we take them away ? presbyterian . query 44. in summ , whether 1. god would not have parents devote their children to him , and enter them according to their capacity in his covenant ? 2. whether also he doth not accept into his covenant all that are faithfully thus devoted to him , and be not peculiarly their god , that such children are holy ? 3. whether they are not as certainly members , according to an infant-capacity , of the visible church , as they are of all kingdoms under heaven ? 4. whether there be not far more hope of their salvation , then of those without ? 5. whether the covenant doth not make their salvation certain , if they so die ? 6. whether the invest●ure and solemnization of their covenant with christ should not be made in infancy , & c ? baptist . antiqu. 44. in summ , 1. whether we do not as much to our infants ( in our capacity ) as christ did to the infants which were brought to him ? and will not that sati●fie , unless we go from him to follow you ? and as to the business of the covenant , let us hear what mr. baxter saith , more r●●s . p. 86. all mankind is brought by christ under a covenant of grace , which is not vain or repealed by god , but as their abuse of the grace of the covenant may cast them out ; for as a covenant of entire nature was made with all mankind in innocent adam ; so a covenant of grace was made with all mankind in lapsed adam , gen. 3. 15. in the promised seed ; and renewed again with all ma●kind in noah , &c. and now we ask whether our infants according to this account of the covenant of grace be not in it without bapti●m , fith they have not abused the grace of the covenant ? and whether baptism be not far more proper , when after they have corrupted themselves by sin , they come to humiliation , and so to enter into this covenant upon the termes of the gospel ? whether your exposition of the universal church , upon mat. 28. 19. do take in the practice of the apostles in pursuance of that commission to the acts of the apostles , and the exposition of the baptists ? and if not , then you either deny us to be of the universal church , or else you have not the exposition of the church universal ? presbyterian . query 45. how inconsiderable a part of the universal church do the anabaptists hold communion with ? and do they not unchurch almost all the churches on earth ? ( may we not think , that they rob christ of more them nine parts of ten of his kingdom , or church universal ? v. p. 305. ) baptist . antiqu. 45. whether upon luthers revolt from the pope , you were not upbraided with holding communion with an inconsiderable part of the universal church ? why do you take up the papists weapons ? did not that pious man that succoured athanasius in the time of the arrian persecution answer the objection well , when he said , the cause of truth is not therefore empaired , because i am alone ; -- glory not therefore in multitudes , for it is not the multitude but the cause that justifieth or condemneth ? also whether we may not also conclude , that many are of the universal church , which do not communicate with us or your selves ? and yet whether the separation from many pedobaptists will not justifie our separation from you more clearly ? presbyterian . query 46. whether they can possibly hop● , that ever the church on earth will unite upon their terms , of rejecting all their infants from the visible church , and renouncing all our infant-rights and benefits conferred by the baptismal covenant of grace ? baptist . antiqu. 46. whether this be in effect to say , what will these feeble jews do ? and why may we not hope that this great mistake of yours may vanish , as well as that great mistake of austin , and the generality of men prosessing christianity , who brought infants also to the lords table , and that for many hundreds of years together , and defended it by as plaufible reasons as any you have for baptizing them ? could god reform so great and general an errour , forced on by learning and authority of eminent men ; and shall we think this thing only too hard for god ▪ our small number shall not make us doubt , for we know god doth great things by small means . and what baptismal grace do we desire you to renounce , when we only defire you to mend an errour ; did the twelve disciples , acts 19. renounce any baptismal grace , when ( according to the interpretation of the ancients ) they were baptized again ? surely reformation is no errour . presbyterian . query 47. and whether if they continue to the worlds end to separate from almost all the churches and unchurch them , their employment will not be still to serve the great enemy of love and concord , against the lord of love and peace , and against the profperity of faith and godliness , and against the welfare of the church and souls , and to the scandal and hardning of the ungodly ? baptist . antiqu. 47. whether the separation is not justly chargeable upon those which cause divisions and offences , by asserting and maintaining such errours , as being admitted , the way of god must be corrupted , or laid aside ? and whether these are not the men , that ( at least unawares ) serve the design of the great enemy , and whether you are not guilty of the fault wherewith you would charge us ? p●esbyterian . 48. whether too many well-meaning , but weak christians , are not disaffected to lawful and warrantable things in the worship of god , meerly because they see such as are ungodly use and own them ? and whether if god should but let us have a king and other rulers , that were against infant-baptism , and singing of psalmes , &c. and would make laws for their own way , and impose it on others , so that the ungodly multitude should fall in with them , it would not presently cure many that are now for such opinions ? baptist . antiqu. 48. whether many , but weak christians , would hold to the errou● of infant-sprinkling , but meerly because j. b. and mr. baxter , &c. do so . and whether this be not as much weakness of the one hand , as the case put by you on the other ? and whether both ought not to be amend●d ? and whether the latter part of this query do not shew , that to follow the greatest number is not always the best way ? and why then would you discourage us by our paucity ? and whether such confiderations might not have discouraged the apostles , seeing they were to alter the state of religion in the jewish church , yea , throughout the whole world ? presbyterian . query 49. whether mr. baxter in the second and third part of that his second defence of our infants rights , have not sufficiently detected the great and notorious untruths in fact and history , wherewith mr. h. d. treatise of baptism , and reply to mr. willes is fully stuffed . baptist . antiqu , 49. whether mr. d. and mr. tombes have not sufficiently detected mr. baxters mistakes in many of his works 〈◊〉 infant-baptism . and particularly in mr. tombes his felo de se . also whether mr. wills exceptions against mr. d. are not well foiled by mr. d. in his twofold defence of his treatise of baptism ; and whether mr. baxter did ever yet , or ever will accept of mr. tombes his serious challenge lately made in these words . i challenge him to set down distinctly his theses , concerning the grace he meanes , the covenant of grace , what and whose it is , how it is bap , iswal , what are the rights and benefits conferred to infants by it , using words in their proper sence and genuine notions , and then without questions , exclamations , flirts , suppositions improved , set down his scriptures , and form his arguments substantially -- and then i doubt not but learned and accurate disputants will see his folly , &c. postscript to mr. d. second reply p. 267. presbyterian . query 50. whether the anabaptists schism , or separation from communion with our churches be not worse yet then their simple opinion ? and whether it be not desirable , and possible , that some may be found out , and terms laid down , in which good and sober men on both sides would agree and hold communion ? baptist. antiqu. 50. whether the papists may not on fairer grounds query thus with the protestantt , then you can do with us , especially when the cause you manage against us is so doubtful in the judgement of its best friends ▪ as we shewed in our preface ; and here we shall further add what mr. y. notes in his first reply , p. 126. mr. chillingworth ( saith he ) in his answer to knot 's charity maintain'd , part . 1. c. 3. § . 44. p. 152. saith , the doctrine of infant-baptism is of that sort , of which the scripture is silent . and the oxford-divines , in their reasons os the present judgement of the university , &c. june 1. 1674. do. sect . 4. p. 9. say , that without the consent , judgment and practice of the universal church , ( which they distinguish from the scriptures ) they should be at a loss when they are called upon for proof of the baptizing infants . now this considered with what dr. taylor saith , dissuasive from popery , p. 118. that it is certain , there is no universal or prime tradition for baptizing infants , then whether you may not more securely forbear baptizing your infants , till endowed with knowledge and faith , then to do it without . and in the mean time retain your opinion about their being in the covenant of grace , and let christs ministers or your selves pray for them after the example of christ . and whether this might not be a more likely way for a lasting peace between the baptists and the pedobaptists , and more consonant to the scriptures then the way propounded by you ? and seeing it shall come into your hearts to make some overtures for peace , we desire you would prosecute that needful work. and whether it may not better be done by personal conference in a friendly and christian manner , then by writing books one to another . and whether the baptists have not offered this , and bin rejected by you in such their tenders of friendship ? may these queries and antiqueries have an effectual tendency to the increase of love and chirstian friendship , and if not , whether it had not been better they had been unwritten ? finis . the postscript . shewing that infant-baptism is contrary to the command of christ . receiving lately in writing a proposition from a minister of the church of england , to which i sent him certain arguments , to prove what is denied in the said proposition ; i shall here offer the same to consideration . the proposition is this , prop. infant-baptism is not contrary to the command of christ . contra. infant-baptism is contrary to the command of christ . arg. 1. if infant-baptism be not contrary to the command of christ , then it is of divine institution , but infant-baptism is not of divine institution , ergo , infant-baptism is contrary to the command of christ . the major is true , because there is only one baptism instituted by christ . the minor is true , because no man can shew any divine institution of infant-baptism . arg. 2. if infant-baptism be not contrary to the command of christ , then it agrees with christs commission for the perpetuity of baptism , mat. 28. 19. but infant-baptism is not agreeable to the commission from the perpetuity of baptism , mat. 28. 19. ergo , infant-baptism is contrary to the command of christ . the major is true , because christ commanded nothing contrary to his own commission . the minor is true , sith no man can shew any agreement between the commission and infant-baptism . arg. 3. if infant baptism be not contrary to the command of christ , then it is agreeable to the practice of the apostolical churches , but infant-baptism is not agreeable to the practice of the apostolical churches . ergo , infant-baptism is contrary to the command of christ . the major i● true , because the apostolical church did observe all that christ commanded in the case of baptism . the minor is true , because no man can shew , the apostolical churches did baptize so much as one infant . arg. 4. if infant-baptism be not contrary to the command of christ , then it is the baptism of repentance for remission of sin . but infant-baptism is not the baptism of repentance for remission of sins ; ergo , infant-baptism is contrary to the command of christ . the major is true , because christ commanded no baptism , but the baptism of repentance for remission of sins , acts 2. 38. and eph. 4. 5. the minor is true , because infants have all the remission needful in infancy , without repentance , else they can have no remission . arg. 5. that which hath in a great measure , and naturally tends wholly to make void the baptism commanded by christ , is contrary to the command of christ . but infant-baptism hath in a great measure , and naturally tends wholly to make void the baptism commanded by christ . ergo , infant-baptism is contrary to the command of christ . the major is true , because christ commands nothing to make void his own command . the minor is true , for where infant-baptism is generally rcceived , there believers baptism ceaseth . arg. 6. if infant-baptism be as unreasonable , as to baptise persons when they are asleep or dead , then it is contrary to the command of christ . but infant-baptism is as unreasonable as to baptize persons when they are asleep or dead . ergo , infant-baptism is contrary to the command of christ . the major is true , because christ commanded nothing that is unreasonable , i mean , that which is really so according to truth , and not in mans judgement only . the minor is true , first becaufe those who baptize infant● do usually do it when they are a●leep ; secondly , because the grounds usually insisted on for infantbaptism , will as well justifie the baptizing persons asleep or dead ; ● mean , such only as have known and believed in the lord jesus ; yea , the scripture may seem ( according to interpreters , to hint some such thing to have been done in the christian church , and he not approve it ) but no such intimation touching any infant . arg. 7. that practice which renders the practice of christ and his true followers , ( who were baptized in rivers , or much water ) superfluous or ridiculous , and which agreeth not with the word baptize , when used in the new testament to express the act done in that ordinance , is contrary to the command of christ . but the sprinkling of infants now used by the presbyterians , renders the practice of christ and his true followers , ( who were baptized in rivers or much water ) supersluous or ridiculous , and agreeth not with the signification of the word baptize , when used to express ( according to the new testament ) the act done in that ordinance . ergi , infant-baptism is contrary to the command of christ . t●e major is evident , because christ would command nothing to reflect dishonour upon his own practice , the minor is true , because if sprinkling a little water on the face only be su●ficient , then immersion or dipping in the river must needs be superfluous , &c. neither can the word baptize and rantize , with any equity of speech or good sence , be used to ezpress the same action . thus , though we justly refuse infant-baptism , because no man can prove it commanded by christ , yet that we may more effectually perswade our countreymen , to admit of the restoration of this ordinance to pristine integrity , we have offered these arguments to shew how contrary to christs command is that darling tradition os pedobaptism . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a41786-e7880 from the institution of baptism . from the institution of bapt●sm from the practice of the first church . from the necessity of repentance , where sin is washed away baptismally . from the ill consequence of infant-baptism . for the unreasonableness therof . from the dishonour i● offereth to christs practice . the pædo-baptists apology for the baptized churches shewing the invalidity of the strongest grounds for infant baptism out of the works of the learned assertors of that tenent, and that the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins is a duty incumbent upon all sinners who come orderly to the profession of christianity : also the promise of the spirit [b]eing the substance of a sermon on i cor. 12, i, to which is added a post-script out of the works of dr. jer. taylor in defence of imposition of hands as a never failing ministery / by tho. grantham. grantham, thomas, 1634-1692. 1671 approx. 118 kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from 60 1-bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; 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(eebo-tcp ; phase 1, no. a41783) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set 107603) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, 1641-1700 ; 1634:5) the pædo-baptists apology for the baptized churches shewing the invalidity of the strongest grounds for infant baptism out of the works of the learned assertors of that tenent, and that the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins is a duty incumbent upon all sinners who come orderly to the profession of christianity : also the promise of the spirit [b]eing the substance of a sermon on i cor. 12, i, to which is added a post-script out of the works of dr. jer. taylor in defence of imposition of hands as a never failing ministery / by tho. grantham. grantham, thomas, 1634-1692. taylor, jeremy, 1613-1667. [6], 112 p. s.n.], [london : 1671. place of publication suggested by wing. imperfect: cropped, tightly bound and slightly faded with some loss of print. reproduction of original in the british library. created by converting tcp files to tei p5 using tcp2tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between 1473 and 1700 available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the 25,363 texts created during phase 1 of the project have been released into the public domain as of 1 january 2015. anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. 5% (or 5 pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of 100 instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level 4 of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p5, characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng bible. -n.t. -corinthians, 1st, xii, 1 -sermons. infant baptism. baptists -apologetic works. imposition of hands. 2007-11 tcp assigned for keying and markup 2007-11 apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images 2008-02 john latta sampled and proofread 2008-02 john latta text and markup reviewed and edited 2008-09 pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion the paedo-baptists apology for the baptized churches , shewing the invalidity of the strongest grounds for infant baptism out of the works of the learned assertors of that tenent . and that the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins is a duty incumbent upon all sinners who come orderly to the profession of christianity . also the promise of the spirit ●eing the substance of a sermon on 1 cor. 12. 1. to which is added a post-script . out of the works of dr. jer. taylor in defence of imposition of hands as a never failing ministery . by tho. grantham . mr. perkins on gal. 3. 27. baptism alone is no mark of gods child , but baptism joyned with faith , for so must the text be consideres . all the galations that believe are baptized into christ . printed in the year . 1671. to the reader . friend , i have a few things to say before thou read this ensuing apology , and first , the occasion of it is from the late unkind usages which the baptized churches have received from the paedo-baptists , by violently dispersing their assemblies , by defacing and taking away their meeting places , by imprisoning their persons , seizing and wasting their estates , by injuring them in their trade by means of excommunications , by writs de capiendo and other penall proceedings both confining their persons and exposing them to great inconveniencies . and all this only ( as i conceive for their conscionable observance of the will of god in preaching the gospel to sinners ●●r the obedience of faith , and for adhearing to that form of doctrine once deli●ered to the saints heb. 6. 1 , 2. in which doct●ine and sufferings being through the mercy of god a pertaker with them , i thought i might lawsully write an apology for them , or at least for the truth professed by them . and that i might the ●ore effectually do this i chose to speak ●o their advers●ries by the learned ●ens of their own doctors . 2. my design in writing this apo●ogy , is to abate ( if it may be ) that great enmity which hath appeared generally between the parties concerned ; and more perticularly that spirit of opposition and disresp●ct which too much appears in the more refined sort of the paedo-baptists , against such as labor to reform ( or rather to restore ) the doctrine of baptism , to its first integrity and estimation among all that profess the name of our lord jesus christ , under what epethets or den●minations soever . and me thinks th● truth should prevail with all that do consider the authority and force thereof to be such that men are constrained ( as it were to speak for it though to the overthrow of their dearest errours , so that we may say their rock is net as our rock , our enemies being judges . 3. i have not injured the sense of my authours , and where i have added any thing for explycation of any word or passage , i have distingushed the same partly by a different letter , and partly by this character [ ] nor have i said much in the apology , as indeed it was not necessary , considering the evidence of the word of god for us , and the record which our opposers do bear in favour of our cause ; and beside they that will may see what may be further said in the case depending , if they please to peruse the learned works of those of our way , viz. denn his answer to dr. featley , tombs , his antipaedo-baptist , fisher his christianismus rediv●vous , and many others . 4. the second part intitled of the promise of the spirit , i though fit to be annexed , because acts 2. 38 , 39. such as are baptized with the baptism of repentance for remission of fins , have the promise of the spirit made to them , which being sought for in the way ordained of god , shall be received according to his will for he is faithfull that promised . thy servant in christ , tho. grantham , the paedo baptists apologie for the baptized churches , &c. there is no point of the christian faith , of greater importance in order to the composure of divisions among such as conscientiously profess the name of christ , then the doctrine of holy baptisme , in the name of jesus christ for the remission of sins ; for as many as have been baptixed into christ have put on christ . and where this foundation truth hath been neglected or essentially corrupted , there hath ensued great disorder in religion , because the being of the church ( as visible ) is so concern'd therein , that there can be no orderly proceeding in any church act , nor participation in any church priviledge , where sacred baptisme is not antecedent . and though reformation ( or rather the restoration ) of this truth be hard to accomplish , yet must we not be discouraged , but still pursue all lawful and probable wayes to effect it in this , as well as in other cases . and the way which i have chosen to help on this needful work at this time is to shew , that ( notwithstanding the discord in point of practice , yet ) there is a very great concord in doctrine , touching the main questions which concern this heavenly institution , between the paedo-baptists , and the baptized churces . the questions are these . 1. what are the qualifications required of all such as are to be bapt●zed . 2. what is the aue act or right form to be observed and done in this solemn rite of baptisme . touching the first , the doctrine of the baptized churches is well known , namely , that repentance toward god , and faith towards our lord jesus christ are prerequisites to the baptisme of every sinner . and to this agrees the holy scripture with full consent , ●aying , repent and be baptized every one of you . they were all baptized confessing their sins . when they beleived philip preaching the things concerning the kingdome of god &c. they were baptized both men and women , many of the corinthians hearing , believe'd and were baptised . and hence this holy ordinance is well called the laver of regeneration ; the baptisme of repentance , fo●th● r●mis●ion of sins . now let us hear the doctrine of the paedo-baptists touching this question . 1. the church of england both in her articles and vulgar catechism , delivers her mind clearly to this purpose , that such repentance whereby sin is forsaken , and such faith as by which the promises of god are stedfastly beleived , is required of persons ( meaning all persons ) which are to be baptized , and that in baptism faith is confirmed &c. 2. m● . perkins ) a learned son of ●he same church ) upon these words , ●each all nations baptizeing them . saith , i explain the words thus ▪ ( mark , first of all it is said teach them , that is make them my disciples by calling them to believe , and to repent . here we are to consider , the order which god observes in makeing with man the covenant in baptism , first of all he calls them by his word and commands them to beleive and repent , then in the second place god makes his promise of mercy and forgiveness ▪ and thirdly he feals his promise by baptism — they that know not , nor consider this order which god used in covenanting with them in bapti●m deal preprosterously , oversliping the commandment of repenting and b●leiving — this is the cause of of so much profaneness in the world — we see what is done in baptism , the covenant of grace is solemniz'd between god and the party baptized , and in this covenant something ▪ belongs to god , some to the party baptized , the actions of the party baptized is a certain stipulation , or obligation , whereby he bindeth himself to give homage to the father , son , and holy ghost . this homage standeth in faith , whereby all the promises of god are beleieved , and in obedience to all his commandements . the sign of this obligation , is that the party baptized willingly yeilds himself to be washed with water . 3. diodate on the same text , teaches that baptism is a sacrament of grace in remission and expiation of sins , and regeneration to a new life . and likewise for a token that they are bound on there side ( meaning such as are baptized ) to consecrate themse●ves to god , and to give themselves over to the conduct of 〈◊〉 spirit , and to confesse his name perpetually . [ thus these three witnesses do concurre with the truth and therein do hold a concord with the baptized churches . and one would think there should now be no place for such a conceit , as that infants are fit subjects for the sacred ordinance of baptism , because wholly uncapable of these qualifications . now whereas div●r● things are pretended as grounds for infant baptism , we shall briefly recount the particulars which are chiefly insisted on , and then show how the same are refelled or made void by some of the most learned asserters of paedo-baptism . the grounds pretended are these . 1. the covenant which god made with abraham and his seed , gen. 17. who were to be circumcised ( to wit the makes only ) in their infancy , this is thought to be a type of baptism , and hence 't is conceived that infants ought ●o be baptized . 2. christs permi●●ing infants to be brought to him , as persons to whom the kingdome belongs . 3. they being tainted with original sin , must be cleansed from it , which is supposed to be done by baptism . 4. because it is said except a man be born of water &c. he cannot enter into the kingdome of god. john 3. 5. because infants do not ponere obicem , and so are more fit for baptism then adult persons , as 't is thought . 6. because without baptism parents can not hope the salvation of dying infants ( as some think . ) 7. the promise of the holy ghost , acts 2. 39 , is thought to belong to infants , and so they ought to be baptized because they are said to be holy . 8. unless infants be baptized 't is thought god is worse to infants in the gospel , then in the law. 9. infants are a par● of all nations , and the command for baptizing is of extent to all nations . 10. 't is thought the apostles baptized infants because they baptized whole housholds , and 't is said , it hath descended to this very age as a tradition apostolical . to all which , doct. jer. taylor ( and others ) in behalf of the baptized churches , do give answer as followeth . that this is a goodly harangue , which upon strict examination will come to nothing ; that it pretends fairly , and signifies little ; that some of those allegations are false , some impertinent , and all the rest insufficient . for the argument from circumcision , is invalid ( or of no wright ) upon infinite considerations , figures and types prove nothing , unless a commandment go along with them , or some express ●o signifie such to be their purpose : for the deluge of waters and the ark of noah were a figure of baptism s●id pe●●r : and if therefore the circumstances of one should be drawn to the other , we should make baptism a prodigie , rather then a rite . the pascal lamb was a type of the eucharist which succeeds the other as baptism doth circumcision , but because there was in the manducation of the pascal lamb , no prescription of sacramental drink , shall we thence conclude that the eucharist is to be ministred but in one kind ? and even in the very instance of this argument supp●sing a correspondence of analogie betwen circumcision and baptism , * yet there is no correspondence of identity : for although it were granted that both of them did consign the covenant of faith , yet there is nothing in circumstance of childrens being circumcised that so concerns that m●stery , but that it might very well be given to children , and yet baptism to men of reason ; because circumcision left a character in the flesh , whi●h being imprinted upon infants did its work to them when they came to age , and such a character was necessary , because there was no word added to the sign ; but baptism imptints nothing that remains on the body , and if it leaves a character at all it is upon the soul to which also the word is added , which is as much a part of the sacrament as the sign it self is * for both wch reasons it is very requisite that the persons baptized should be capable of reason , that they may be capable of both the word of the sacrament and th● impress made upon the spirit . since therefore the reason of this pa●ity does wholly fail , there is nothing left to infer a necessity , of complying in this circumstance of age , any more then in the other anexes of the type : and the case is clear in the bishops question to c●p●iu● , for why should not infants be baptized just upon the eight day as well as circumcised , if the correspondence of the rites be an argument to infer one circumstance which is impertninent and accidental to the misteriousness of the rite , why should it not infer all [ especially such a material thing as the time of baptism , for if the eight day be not determined , no man is able to assign the day of baptism , which being delayed till the tenth or twentieth day , may by the same reason be deferred till the child have passed through its infancy , and become capable of e●udition ] and then also females must not be baptized because they were not circumcized , but it were more proper , if we would understand it aright , to prosecute the analogie of the type to the antitipe by way of letter and spirit , and signification , and as circumcision signifies baptism so also the adjuncts of circumcision shall signifie something spiritual in the adherences of baptism . and therefore as infants were circumcised , so spiritu●l infants shall be baptized , which ( according to some ) is spiritual circumcision [ which yet is better expounded by st. paul. phil. 3. where he makes the spiritual circumcision to be the mind and spirit renewed , and the putting of the body of the sins of the flesh ] for therefore babes had the ministery of the type to signifie that we must when we give our names to christ , become 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 children in malice , [ for unless you become like one of these little ones you cannot enter into the kingdome of heaven ] said our blessed saviour , and then the ●ye is made compleat , and this seems to have been the sence of the p●imative church , for in the ages next to the apostles , they gave to all baptized persons mi●k and hony to represent to them their duty , that though in age and understanding they were men , yet they were babes in christ , and children in malice . but to infer the sence of the paedo baptists , is so weak a manner of arguing , that augustin whose device it was ( and men use to be in love with their own fancies ) at the most pretended it but as probable [ lo here the newness of the argument , from infant circumcision , to infant baptism . [ as for the catholicks they hold it an absurd thing to argue as the protestants do , from the covenant made with abraham and his seed , gen 17. 7. thus they speak . that prom●se concerns literally pecuculiar pro●●ction , and ●orldly felicity , not the remission of sins and everlasting life , neither can we be sons of abraham by carnal generation , or by our carnal paren●s ( we are not jews but gentiles ) but only by spiritual generation ( to wit baptism ) by which we are born to god , and made the brothers of chr●●t● the sons of abraham , th●se ( saith st. paul ) are the sons of abraham , not who are the sons of the flesh but of faith rom. 4. 12. 13. again they deride the argument drawn from infants being circumcised in order to their being baptized , calling it a cunning argument by which it will follow that females are not to be baptized , &c. ] and as ill success will they have with the other arguments as with this for from the action of christs blessing infants to inser that they are to be baptize , proves nothing so much as that there is a great want of better arguments , the conclusion would be with more probability derived thus ; christ blessed children and so dismissed them , but baptized them not , therefore infants are not to be baptized , but let this be as weak as it's enemy , yet that christ did not baptize them , is an argument sufficient that christ hath other wayes of bringing them to heaven . he passed his act of grace upon them by benediction and imposition of hands . and therefore though neither infants nor any man in puris naturalibus can attain to a supernatural end without the addition of some instrument or means of gods appointing ordinarily , yet where god hath not appointed a rule nor an order , as in the case of infants , we contend he hath not , this argument is invalid ▪ and as we are sure that god hath not commanded infants t● be baptised , so we are su●e god will do them no injustice , nor damn them for what they cannot help . and therefore let them be pressed with all the inconveniences which a●e consequent to original sin , yet either it will not be laid to their charge , so as to be sussicient to condemn them ; or if it could , yet the mercy and absolute goodness of god will secure them , if he take them away before they can glorifie him by a free obedience . quid ergo fostivat innoceus alis ad remissionem p●ccatorum ? was the question of tertullian ( lib. de bapt . ) he knew no such danger from their original guilt , as to drive them to a laver of which in that age of innocence they had no need , as he conceived ▪ and therefore there is no necessity of flying to the help of others , for tongue , and heart , and faith , & predispositions to baptism ; for what need all this stir ? as infants without their own consent , without any act of their own . and without any exteriour solemnity , contracted the guilt of adams sin , and are lyable to all the punishment which can with justice descend upon his posterity who are personally innocent ; so infants shall be restored without any solemnity or act of their own , or any other for them , by the second adam by the redemption of jesus christ by his righteousness and mercies , applyed either immediately , or how , or when he pleases to appoint [ and to this agrees that saying of the apostle as in adam all dye , so in christ shall all be made alive ; and as by the disobedience of one many were made sinners , so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous ] and so austins argument will come to nothing without any need of god-fathers , or the faith of any body else . and it is too narrow a conception of god almighty , because he hath tyed us to the observation of ceremonies of his own institution , that therefo●e he hath tyed himself to it . many thousand ways there are by which god can bring any reasonable soul to himself : but nothing is more unreasonable , then because he hath tyed all men of years , and discretion to this way , therefore we of our own heads shall carry infants to him that way without his direction : the conceit is poor and low , and the action consequent to it , is too bold and ventrous , mysterium meum mihi & filiis domus meae . let him do what he please to infants we must not . only this is certain , that god hath as great care of infants as of others , and because they have no capacity of doing such acts , as may be in order to acquiring salvation , god will by his own immediate mercy bring them thither , where he hath intended them ; but to say that therefore he will do it by an external act and ministry , and that confin'd to a particular , viz. this rite & no other , is no good argument unless god could not do it without such means , or that he had said he would not : and why cannot god as well do his mercies to infants now immediately , as he did before the institution either of circumcision or baptism ? [ ●his query is worthy of serious consideration ] however there is no danger that infants should perish for want of this external ministry , much less for prevaricating christs precept , nisi quis renatus fuerit &c. for first the water and spirit in this place [ according to some learnéd expositers ] signifie the same thing : and by water is ment the ●ff●ct of the spirit clensing and purifying the soul , as appears in its parralel place of christs baptizing with the holy ghost and fire — ( but to let pass this advantage and to suppose it to be ment of external baptism [ as that is the most likely sense ] yet this no more infers a necessity of infants baptism , then the other words of christ infer a necessity to give them the holy communion , nisi comediritis carnem filii hominis , & brberitis sanguinem non introibitis in regnum ●aelorum ; and yet we do not think these words sufficient argument to communicate them ; if men therefore will do us justice , either let them give both sacraments to infants as some ages of the church did , or neither , for the wit of man is not able to shew a desparity in the sanction , or in the evergie of its expression ; and therefore they were honest , that understood the obligation to be parralel , and performed it accordingly , and yet because we say they were deceived in one instance , and yet the obligation ( all the world cannot reasonably say but ) is the same : they are as honest and as reasonable that do neither . and since the antient-church did with an equal opinion of necessity give them communion , and yet men now adays do not , why shall men be mor● burthened with a prejudice and nam● of obloquy for not giving the infant● one sacrament , more then they ar● disliked for not affording them the other . if anabaptist shall be ● name of disgrace , why shall not som● other name be invented for them that deny to communicate infants , which shall be equally disgraceful , or else both the opinions signifyed by such names , be accounted no disparagement , but receive their estimate according to their truth ? of which truth since we are now taking account from pretences of scripture , it is considerable the discourse of st. peter which is pretended for the intitleing infants to the promise of the holy ghost , and by consequence to baptism , which is supposed to be its instrument of conveyance , 't is wholly a fancy , and hath nothing in it of certainty or demonstration and not much probability . for besides that the thing it self is unreasonable and the holy ghost works by the heighting and improveing our natural faculties , and therefore is a promise that so concerns them , as they are reasonable creatures , and may have a tittle to it , in proportion to their nature , but no possession or reception of it , till their faculties come into act , besides this , i say , the words mentioned in s. p●t●rs ●rmon ( which are the only record of the promise are interpreted upon a w●a● mistake ; the promise belongs to you and to your children therefore infants are actually receptive o● it in that capacity , that 's the argument : but the reason of it is not yet discovered nor never will [ for indeed it is without reason ] to you and your children , i●s you and your posterity , to you and your children when they are of the same capacity in which you are effectually receptive o● the promise . [ beside the promise of the spirit in this place is refer'd to the gift● of the holy ghost , an● is therefore made t● those who had alread● received it in the quic●ning , or illuminating opperation of it , an● is the po●tion of beleivers as such , and i● consequent to baptism . acts 2 38 , 39 ▪ and is therefore wrongfully made an argument for the baptizing of infants , wh● ( what ever they may have of the g●aces of the spirit * yet ) have neither need of , nor any capacity to use the gifts of the spirit and therefore evident it is that this promise of the spirit belongs not to infants at all ] and for the allegation of st. paul , that infants are holy if their parents be faithful , it signifie nothing , bu● that they are holy by designation , — [ or according to erasmus they ( to wit infants born of such parents as the o●e being a christian the other not ) are holy leg●●●●ately ; for the conversion of either wife or ●●sband d●th not disso●ve the marriage which was made when both were in u●b●●eif . and however it is true , that au●tin was a great stick●er for paedo-bap●ism , yet he denys that any such thing can ●e deduced from the text in hand , his words ●re these . lib. 3 de pec . mer. remi● . it is to be held without doubling , whatsoever that sanctification was , it was not of power to make christians and remit sins . he might well say so considering that the holiness of the child is derived from the sanctity of the unbeleiver , as the word else being rightly refer'd doth evince , 1 co. 7. 14. ] and as the promiss appertains not ( for ought appears ) to infants in that capacity and consistance , — yet baptism is not the means of conveying the holy ghost , for that which peter sayes be baeptized and ye shall receive the holy ghost , signifies no more then this ; first be baptized and then by imposition of the apostles hands , ( which was another mistery and rite ) 〈◊〉 shall receive the promiss of the father and this is nothing but an infinuation of the rite of confirmation , a● to this sense expounded by diver● antient authors ; and in ordinary ministry , the effect of it is not bestowed upon any unbaptized persons , for it is in order next after baptism : and upon this ground peters argument in the case of cornelius was concluding enough , a mojori ad minus , thus the holy ghost was bestowed upon him and his family , which gift by ordinary ministry was consequent to baptism , not as the effect is to the cause , or to the proper instrument , but as a consequent is to an antecedent , in a chain of c●uses accidentally , and by positive institution depending upon each o●her ) god by that miracle did give testimony that the persons of the men were in g●eat dispositions towards heaven , and therefore were to be admitted to these rites which are the ordinary inlets into the kingdome of heaven . but then from hence to argue that where ever there is a capacity of receiving the same grace , there also the same sign is to be administred , and from ●ence to infer paedo-baptism , is an argument very fallatious upon several grounds ; first because baptism is not the sign of the holy ghost , but by another mistery it was conveyed ordinarily , and extraordinarily , it was convey'd independently from any mistery , and so the argument goes upon a wrong supposition . 2. if the supposition were true , yet the proposition built upon it is false , for they that are capable of the same grace , are not alwayes capable of the same sign , for women under the law of moses although they were capable of the righteousness of faith , yet they were not capable of the sign of circumcision , for god does not alwayes convey his graces in the same manner , but to some mediately , to some immediately ; and there is no better in●tance in the the world of it , then the gift of the holy ghost ( which is the thing now instanc'd in , in this cont●station . ) and after all this least these arguments should not ascertain their cause , they fall on complaining against god , and will not be content with god , unless they may baptize their children but take exceptions that g●d did more for the children of the jews , but why so ? because god made a covenant with their children actually as infants , and concin'd it by circumcision : well so he did with our children too in their proportion . he made a convenant of spiritual promises on his part , and spiritual and real services on ours ; and this pert●ins to children when capable , but made with them as soon as they are alive , and yet not so as with the jews b●bes , for as they rite consign'd them actually , so it was a national and temporal blessing and covenant , and a separation of them from the portion of the nations , a mark●ng them for a peculiar people , and therefore while they were in the wilderness and sep●rate from the commixture of all people they were not at all ci●cumcised but as that ri●e did seal the righteousness of faith , [ which whe●her it did any such thing to an● s●ve to ●braham only ●n m●ch doubten ] so by vertue of i●'s 〈…〉 , and remanem●y in their fl●sh , it did that work when the 〈◊〉 came to age , but in christian infants t●e case is otherwise , for the new covenant being estab●ished upon better promises , is not only to be●ter purposes , but also in a distinct manner to be understood , when their spirits are as receptive of a spiri●ual act or impress as the bodies of jewish children were of the sign of circumcision then it is to be consign'd ; but the business is quickly at an end by saying that god hath done no less for ours , then for their children , for he will do the mercies of a father and creator to them , and he did no more to the other , but he hath done more to ours , for he hath made a covenant with them and built it upon promises of the greatest concernment . — [ and note further we have as much ground of comfort concerning our dying infants , as the faithful had for the first two thousand years , during all which time , the covenant of grace reached to infants , though there was no external ceremony to consign it to infants . ] — for the insinuation of the precept of baptizing all nation , of which children are a part , does as little advantage as any of the rest , because other parallel expressions of the scri●ture do determine and expound themselves to a sence that includes not all persons absolutely , but of a capable condition as ado●ate ●um omnes gentes , & persallirae deo omnes nationes terra . [ and nation shall rise against nation , where infants are excluded ] and divers more . [ but erasmus hath well expounded this text , where he restrains the baptizing to such as are repentant of their former life . as for the conjecture concerning the family of stephan●s , at the best it is but a conjecture , and besides that it is not prov'd that there were children in the family ; yet if that were granted it follows not that they were baptized , because by [ whole families ] in scripture is ment all persons of reason and age within the familie , for it is said of the ruler at capernaum , that he beleived a●d all his house . now you may also suppose that in his house were little babes , that is like enough , and you may suppose that they did beleive too , before they could understand , but that 's not so likely ; and then the argument from baptizing stephen's family may be allowed just as probable : but this is unmanlike to build upon such slight and airy conjectures . but tradition by all means must supply the place of scripture , and there is pretended a tradition apostolical that infants were baptized : but at this we are not much moved , for we who rely upon the written word of god , as sufficient to establish all true religion , do not value the allegations of traditions ; and however the world goes none of the reformed churches can pretend this argument against this opinion , because they who reject t●adition when 't is against them , must not pre●end it at al● for them . but if we should allow the topick to be good , yet how will it be verified ? for so far as it can yet appear , it relies wholly upon the testimony of origen , for from him austin had it . now a tradition apostolical if it be not consign'd with a fuller testimony then of one person , whom all after ages have condemn'd of many errours , will obtain so little reputation among those that kn●w that thing , have upon greater authority pretended to derive from the apostles , and yet f●sly , that it will be a great argument that he is credulous and weak , that shall be de●ermined by so weak probation , in matters of so great concernment . and the truth of the business is , as there was no command of scripture to obliedge children to the susception of it , so necessity of ●ae●o-baptism was not determined in the church till the eight age after christ , but in the year 418. in the mileritan cou●cel ( a principal of a●r●ca , there was a cannon made for paedo bapt ▪ never till then , i grant it was practised in africa before that time , and they or some of them thought well of it , and though that be no argument for us to think so , yet none of them did ever before , pretend it to be necessary , none to have been a precept of the gospel , st. austin was the first that ever preach'd it to be abso●utely necessary , and it was in his heat and anger against pelag●us who had warm'd and chafed him so in that question ; that it made him innovate in other doctrines , possibly of greater concernment then th●s , and that although this was practic'd antiently in africa yet that it was without an opinion of necessity , and not often there , nor at all in other places , we have the testimony of a learned paedo baptist ludovicus vives who in his annotations upon augustin de civit. dei. l. 1. c. 27. afirms . neminem nisi adultum antiquitus sol●re baptizari . [ and because th●s testimony is of great import i will set down the very words of augustine and ludovicus vives , as i find them in the english edition of the said book of the city of god , cap. 26. where augustine puts forth this question . what is the reason then that we do spend so much time in our exhortations , endeavouring to annimate th●se whom we have bapt●zed , ei●her unto virginity , or c●●st widdow-●ood or honest and honourable marriage ; now upon these words [ ●hose whom we have baptiz●d ] vives comments t●us , least any man should mistake this place , understand tha● in times of old , no man was brought unto baptism , but he was of s●fficient years , to know what that mistical water meant , and to require his baptism , and that sundry times . — i hear that in some cityes of italy they do for the most part observe the antient custome as yet . and it is to be observed that in the margent are two notes , the 1. is that this is the old manner of baptizing . the 2 , that all this is left out in the paris edition , whence we may note how the writings of the antients are abused , and how ingeniously it is confessed , paedo-baptism is not the old manner of baptizing . and here we will insert some other testimonies from the learned paedo-baptists , touching the novelty of infant baptism . the first is out of robertus fabianus his chron. 4. part in fol. 107. where he brings in augustine the monk speaking thus to the brittain bishops ▪ since ye will not assent to my h●sts generally assent ye to me specially in three things , the first is that ye keep easter-day in due form and time as it is ordained the second , that ye give chris●endom to children , &c. but they would not thereof . this was about the fifth age after christ whence its remarkable that infant bap●ism was then opposed by ●he joynt consent of the brita●n bish●ps which were sent to the assembly to consul● the affairs of religion at that time . our next testimony is from the learned casuist hugo grotius who tells us , to defer baptism till ripe years was in old time left at liberty , now the observation is otherwise . plainly giving the case that paedo-baptism is not the old way but a new observation . but here we will again give place to doctor taylor , who saith . that besides that the tradition cannot be proved to be apostolical , we have very good evidence from antiquity that it was the opinion of the primitive church that infan●s ough● not to be baptized . and this is clear in the six●h cannon of the c●unsel of ne●●aesarea . the words * have this sence . a woman 〈…〉 may be baptized when she please ; for her baptism concerns not the child . the reason of the connection of the parts of that cannon is in the following words . because every one in that confession is to give a demonstration of his own choice and election , meaning plainly , that if the baptism of the mother did pass upon the child , it were not fit for a pregnant woman to receive baptism , because in that sacrament , there being a confession of faith which confession supposes understanding , and free choyce , it is not reasonable the child should be consign'd with such a mistery , since it cannot do any act of choice or understanding . the cannon speaks reason , and it intimates a practice which was absolutely universal in the church of interrogating the catechumens concerning the articles of the creed , which is one argument that either they did not admit infants to baptism , or that they did prevaricate egregiously , in asking questions of them , who themselves knew were not capable of giving answer . and to supply their incapacity by the answer of a godfather , is but the same unreasonableness acted with a worse circumstance ; and there is no sensible account can be given of it , for that which some imperfectly murmure concerning stipulations civil performed by tutors in the name of their pupils is an absolute vanity ; for what if by positive constitutions of the romanes such solemnities of law are required in all stipulations , and by indulgence are permitted in the case of a notable benefit acruing to minors . must god be tyed , and christian religion transact her misteries by proportion and complyance with the law of the romanes ? i know god might if he would have appointed godfathers to give answer in behalf of children , and to be f●de-jussors for them , but we cannot find any authority o● ground that he hath and if he had then it is to be supposed he would have given them comission to have transacted the solemnity with better circumsta●ces , and given answers with more truth ▪ and if the godfathers answer in the name of the child [ i do believe ] it is notorious they speak false and ridiculously : for the infant is not capble of be●ieving , and if he were , he were a so capable of dissenting , and how then do they know his mind and therefore tertullian gives advice that the bap●ism of infants 〈◊〉 be deferred till they could 〈◊〉 an account of their faith , and the same also is the counsel of * gregory bishop of naziazum , although he allows them to hasten it in case of necessity , for though his reason taught him what was fit , [ namely that none should b● baptized till they were of understanding yet he was overborn with the practi●● and opinion of his age which began to bear too violently upon him , and yet in another place he makes mention of some to whom baptism was not administred 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 by reason of infancy . to which if we add that the parents of st. austin , st. jerome , and st. ambrose , although they were christian , yet did not baptize their children before they were thirty years of age it will be very considerable in the example , and of great efficacy for destro●ing the supposed necessity or derivation from the apostles [ and for further evidence we may well alledge in this place , that of theodosius the emperor born in spain his parents being both christians , and he from his youth educated in th● christian faith , who falling sick at thess●onica , was baptized and recovered of his sickness . but however ( paedo baptism ) it is against the perpetual analog● of christs doctrine to baptize infants , for besides that christ never gave any precept to bap●ize them , nor never himself nor his apostles ( that appears ) did baptize any of them , all that either he or his apostles said concerning baptism , requires such pretious dispositions to it , of which infants are not capable , and these are faith and repentance , and not to instance in those innumerable places that require faith before baptism , there needs no more but this one saying , he that believeth and is baptized shall be saved , but he that believeth not shall be damned . plainly thus , fai●h and baptism in conjunction will bring a man to heaven , but if he have not faith baptism shall do him no good . so that if baptism be necessary , then so is faith , and much more ; for want of faith damns absolutely , it is not said so of the want of baptism . now if this decretory sence be to be understood of persons of age , and if children by such an answer ( which indeed is reasonable enough ) be excused from the necessity of faith , the want of which regularly does damn , then it is sottish to say the same incapacity of reason and faith , shall not ●xcuse them from the actual susception of baptism which as less necessary , and to which faith and many other acts are necessary predispositions when it is reasonably and humanely ●eceived . the conclusion is that bap●sm is also to be defer'd till the time of ●aith , and whether infants have faith or no , is a question to be disputed by ●ersons that care not how much they 〈◊〉 ▪ nor how little they prove . 1. personal and actual faith they have none , for they have no acts of ●nderstanding , and besides how can ●ny man understand that they have , since he never saw any sign of i● neither was he told so by any o●● that could tell . 2. some s●y they have imputativ● faith , but then so let the s●cramen● be too , that is , if they have the parent faith or the churches , then so le● baptism be imputed by derivatio● from them also . — for since faith 〈◊〉 necessary to the susception of baptis● ( and they themselves confess it b● striving to find out new kinds of fait● to daub the matter up ) such as th● faith is , such must be the sacramen● for there is no proportion betwee● an actual sacramen , and an imputative faith , this being in immedia●● and necessary order to that , an● whatsoever can be said to take o● from the necessi●y of actual faith , a● that and much more may be said t● excuse from the actual ●usception 〈◊〉 baptism . 3. the first of these devices wa● that of luther and his schol ar● the 2 of calvin and his ; and yet there is a third device which the church of rome teaches , and that is , that infants have habitual faith , but who told them so ? how can they prove it ? what revela●ion , or reason teaches such a thing ? are they by this habit so much as disposed to an actual belief without a new master ? ●an an infant sent into a mahumetan province be more confident for christianity when he comes to be a , man , then if he had not been baptized , are there any acts precedent concomitant , or consequent to this pretended habit ? this strange invention , is absolutely without art , without scripture , reason or authority . but if there were such a thing as this abitual faith , then either all infants have ● or some only if all why do they deny bap●●sm to the infants which are horn of unbe●evers ? must the child bear the unbelief of 〈◊〉 parents ? * if s●me only have it , how know they these from 〈◊〉 rest , sith when they come to years , there found a like barrenness of this grace 〈◊〉 means be used to beget it ? but third where doth the scripture make an habit●● faith that which intitles any person to ba●tism ? surely according to these conc●●● no man can ever tell to whom , or when 〈◊〉 dispence baptism . ] but the men are ●● be excused unless there were bett●● grounds ; but for all these stratage● the argument now alleadged agai● infant baptism is demonstrable a● unanswerable . to which also this considerati●● may be added , that if baptism be ●●cessary to the salvation of infant upon whom is the imposition lai● to whom is the command give● to parents or to the children , not 〈◊〉 the children , for they are not cap●ble of a law ; not to the parents , 〈◊〉 then god hath put the salvation 〈◊〉 innocent babe● into the power of ●thers , and infants may then be damn●● for their parents carelessness or m●lice . it follows that it is not necessary at all to be done to them , to whom it cannot be prescribed by a law , and in whose behalf it cannot be reasonably intrusted to others with the appendant necessity , and if it be not necessary , it is certain it is not reasonable , and most certain it is no where in terms prescribed , and therefore it is to be presumed , that it ought to be understood and administred according as other precepts are with reference to the capacity of the subject , and the reasonableness of the thing . for i consider that the baptizing of infants does rush upon such inconveniences , which in other questions we avoid like rocks which will appear if we discourse thus . either baptism produces spiritual effects , or it produces them not : if it produces not any , why is such contention about it ? — but if ( as without all peradventure all the paedo-baptists will say ) baptism does a work upon the soul , producing spiritual benefits and advantages ; these advantages are produced by the externa● work of the sacrament alone , or b● that as it is helped by the co-operation and predispositions of the suscipien● . if by the external work of th● sacrament alone , how does this diffe● from the opus o●eratum of the papist● save that it is worse ? for they sa● the sacrament does not produce in effect , but in a suscipient disposed b● all requisites and due preparatives 〈◊〉 piety , faith , and repentance , thoug● in a subject so disposed they say th● sacrament by its own vertue does i● but this opinion says it does it of 〈◊〉 self without the help , or so much 〈◊〉 the coexistence of any condition bu● meer reception . but if the sacrament does not d● its work alone , but per modum recipien●es according to the predispofition● of the suscipient , then because infant can neither hinder it , nor do an● thing to further it , it does them no benesit at all . and if any man runs for succor to that , exploded 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that infants have faith or any other inspired habit of i know not what how , we desire no more advantage in the world then that they are constrain●d to an answer without rev●lation , against reason , common sence and all experience in the world . the sum of the argument in short , is this though under another rep●esentment . either baptism is a meer ceremony or it imploys a duty on our part , if it be a ceremony only , how does it sanctifie us or make the comers thereunto per●ect ? if it imploy● a duty on our part how then can children receive it who cannot do duty at all . and indeed this way of ministration makes baptism to be wholly an outward duty , a work of the law , a carnal ordinance it makes us adheare to the letter , without regard of the spirit , to be satissied with the shadows , to return to bondage . to relinquish the misteriousnes , the substanc● and spirituallity of the gospel , which argument is of so much the more consequence , because under the spiritual covenant , or the gospel of grace , 〈◊〉 the mistery goes not before the symbol ( which it does when the symbol● are seales and consignations of th● grace , as it is said the sacraments are ) yet it always accompanies it , bu● never follows in order of time , an● this is clear in the perpetual analogy of holy scripture . for baptisme is never propounded mentioned or enjoyned as a mean of remission of sins , or of eternal life , but something of duty choice or sanctity is joyned with it , in orde● production of the end so mentione● k●ow you not that s● many as are baptis● in●o ●hr●st jesus an● baptised into his death ? there i● the mistery and the symbol together and declared to be perpetually united 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . all of us who were baptised into one ▪ were baptised into the other , not only in the name of christ , but into his death also ; but the meaning of this , as it is explained in the following words of st. paul , makes much for our purpose : for to be baptised into his death , signifies , to be buried with him in baptisme , that as christ rose from the dead ; we also should walk in newness of life , that 's the full mistery of baptisme ; for being baptised into his death , or which is all one in the next words 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 into the likeness of his death , cannot go alone ; if we be so planted into christ we shall be pertakers of his resurrection , and that is not here instanced in precise reward but in exact duty for all this is nothing but cruc fiction of the old man , a destroying the body of sin , that we no longer serve sin . this indeed is truly to be baptized both in the symbol and the mistery what is less then this , is but the symbol only , a meer ceremony , an opus operatum , a dead letter , an empty shadow , an instrument , without an agent to manage ; or force to actuate it . plainer yet whosoever are baptized into christ have put on christ , have put on the new man. but to put on the new man , is to be formed in righteousness , holiness , and truth . this whole argument is the very words of st. paul. the major proposition is dogmatically determined , gal. 3. 27. the minor in ephes . 4. 24. the conclusion then is obvious . that they who are not formed a new in righteousness , holyness and truth , they who remaining in the present in incapacities , cannot walk in newness of life , they have not been baptized into christ , and then they have but one member of the distinction used by st. peter , they have that baptism which is a putting away the fi●th of the flesh [ if yet an human institute may be so called ] but they have not that baptism which is the answer of a good conscience towards god , which is the only baptism which saveth us , and this is the case of children and then the case is thus . as infants by the force of nature cannot put themselves into a supernaturall condition ( and therefore say the paedo baptists they need baptism to put them into it [ as if the ●●re ●e●e●ony of which only they are capa●'le could put them into a supernaturall con●ition ] so if they be baptized before the use of reason , before the works of the spirit , before the opperations of grace , before they can throw of the works of darknes , and live in ri●hteousness ond newness of life , they are never the nearer ; from the pains of hell they shall be saved by the mercy of god and their o●● innocence though they dye in puris naturalibus , and baptism will carry them no further for that baptism that saves us , is not the only washing with water , of which only infant are capable , but the answer of a good conscience towards god , of which they are not capable till the use o● reason , till they know to chuse the good and refuse the evill . and from thence i consider a new that all vows made by persons unde● others names stipulations made b● minors ▪ are not valid till they by ● supervening act , after they are of sufficient age do ratifie the same , wh● then may not infants as well mak● the vow de novo as de novo ratifie th●● which was made for them ab antiqu● when they come to years of choyce ▪ if the infant vow be invalid till th● manly confirmation , why were it 〈◊〉 as good they staid to make it till th● time , before which if they do ma●● it , it is to no purpose , this would 〈◊〉 considered . and in conclusion our way is the surer way , for not to baptise children till they can give an account of their faith is the most proportionable to an act of reason and humanity , and it can have no danger in it : for to say that infants may be damn'd for want of baptism ( a thing which is not in their power to acquire they being yet persons not capable of a law ) is to afirm that of god which we dare not say of any wise and good man. certainly it is very much derogatory to gods justi●e and a plain defiance to the infinite reputation of his goodness . and therefore who ever will pertinatiously persist in this opinion of the paedo-baptists , and practise it accordingly they polute the blood of the everlasting testament . they dishonor and make a pageantry of the sacrament . they ineffectually represent a sepulture into the death of christ , and please themselves in a sign without effect , making baptism like the figtree full-of leaves but no fruit , &c. thus far the anabaptists may argue , and men have disputed against them with so much weakness and conf●dence , that they have been eucouraged in their error [ alias in th● truth ] more by accidentiall [ alia● real ] advantages we have given them by our weak arguings , then by any truth of their cause or excellency o● of their wit [ so the dr. is pleased t● say but the evidences of our side sp●ak otherwise ] but the use i make of it as to our ppesent question ( saith the dr. ) is this , that since there is no● direct impiety in the opinion no● any that is apparently consequent to it , and they which so much p●obabillity , do or may pretend to true perswasion they are with all means , christian , fair , and human , to b● redargued , or instructed , but if they cannot be perswaded they must be left to god , who knows every degree of every mans understanding , all his weaknesses and strength's what impress each argument makes upon his spirit . and how unresistable every reason is , and he alone judges his in●oce●cy and sincerity : and for the question , i think there is so much to be petended [ he might say really urged ] against that which i believe to be truth that there is much more truth then evidence on our side [ a strange saying of so wi●e a man as if the truth in this case doth not wh●lly depend upon evidence , sith its a positive and no morall precept ] and therefore we may be confident as for our own particulars but not too forward premtorily to prescribe to others muchless damn , or kill or to persecute them that only in this particular disagree . thus far doctor taylor , for our appollogie . to whom to add any more witnesses ( though more might be brought ) would be superfluous . i therefore proceed to the next question , viz. what is the due act , or outward form to be used in this sollemn rite of holy baptism ? it may well be the admiration of every wise and good man how it should come into the mind of such as pretend to be followers of christ that holy baptism should be performed by aspertion , or casting a few drops of water upon the subject , by the fingers of the administrator . the scriptures every where teaching us that the originall form was by imversion in rivers or places of much water , ma●● . 1. john. 3. christ himse●f who surely would do nothing superfluous or in vain , was baptized in the river , by john the first baptist , who had his direction from heaven , and his approbation from on high in that very action mall . 3. and chuss who were under the immediate direction of the holy spirit the leader into all truth , found it necessary for the administrator and subject to go both into the water , for the due performance of this holy ordinance . add thereunto that the proper signification of the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 when used to express the action done in this service , is to dip or imm●rge the party in the element as is confessed by the learned paedo-baptists themse●ves as we shall see in the sequel . and here we will still prefer the church of england who teacheth us that the outward sign or form in baptism , is water wherein the party baptized is dipped , &c. and though she add [ or sprinkled with it ] yet that her conscience tells her that is not the right way appeareth , in that she only assigns that by indulgence to such infants as are in danger of death , &c , the church of rome also confesseth by a learned pen , that she changed dipping the party baptized over the head and ears to a little sprinkling upon the face . erasmus paraphrasing on the words , baptizing them , mat. 28. saith thus , if they believe that which you teach them and begin to be repentant of their former life , &c. then dip them in water , &c. walfridus strabo de rebus eccl●s●●c 26. tells us , that we must know at ●h● fi●st believers were baptized simply in floods and fountains . the learned grotius tel's us in his judgement on infant baptism , that the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signifies to dip over the head and ears . to whom we will joyn t●lenus whose testimony is in these words * baptism is the first sacrament of the new testament instituted by christ , in which with a most pat and exact analogy between the sign and the thing signified , those that are in covenant are by the minister washed in water . the outward rite in baptism is threefold immersion into the water , abiding under the water , and resurruction out of the water , the form of baptism , to wit internal and essential ▪ is no other then that analogical proportion , which the signs keep with the things signified thereby , for as the properties of the water in washing away the defilements of the body , do in a most suitable similitude , set forth the efficacy of christs blood in blotting out of sins , so dipping into the water doth in a most lively similitude set forth the mortification of the old man , and rising out of the water the virification of the new . — that same plunging into the water holds forth to us that horrible gulf of divine justice in which christ for our sins sake , which he took upon him , was for a while in a manner swallowed up . abode under the water how little a while soever , denotes his descent into hell , even the very deepest degree of livelesness , while lying in the sealed and guarded sepulchre he was accounted as one truly dead , rising out of the water holds out to us a lively similitude of that conquest , which this dead man got ●ver death , which he vanquished in his own den , as it were , that is the grave . in like manner therefore it is meet that we being baptized into his death , and buried with him , should rise also with him and so go on in a new life , rom. 6. 3. 4. col. ● . 12. th●● far tile●●s . bishop jewell in his defence , appol . ● . 5. p. 308. brings the councel of worms determining the manner of baptism ; thus , in aquas demersio in 〈◊〉 , & ●u●sus ab aquis ●emersio r●surrectio est . the dipping into the water is the going down into hell [ i. e. the grave ] the coming out from of the water is the resurrection . from all which testimonies ( and many more that might be brought ) it is evident beyond all doubt our opposers being judges ) that whether we respect the signification of the word baptizor the signification of the ordinance it self , or the consent of the primitive . churches in their practice of holy baptism , dipping the subject ( or party baptized ) in the element water , is the due form of baptism , and therefore sprinkling or crossing the face ; is an humane innovation . or , upon the whole matter these ten particulars are very apparent . first , that infant baptism was innovated , after the holy scriptures were written which appeareth both from the deep silence of the scripture in that case , and the confession of learned paedo-baptists themselves . 2. that it came in stealing ( as it were ) being for a considerable time left at liberty ( a sign it was not from heaven ) * and was disliked by the antients who therefore disswaded from it . 3. that which gave it its great advantage for a more general reception , was this false opinion , that without baptism none could be saved . this saith mr. perkins doth st. augustine every where assirm . 4. that the lords supper was as eagerly pressed , to be necess●ry sor infants as baptism , and they continued in use together about the space of six hundred years , this conceit was confirmed ( saith mr. perkins ) by the councel of toledo , can. 11. and augustine was so earnest for this also that he boldly sayes in vain do we promise infants salvation without it . aug ep : 23. & ep . 107. & contra ep . pelag . l. 1. c. 22. & contra . 〈◊〉 . l. 7. c. 2. l. 3. c. 12. 5. that divers in the greek church have all along to this day refused infant baptism . gro●ius his words are these ( as mr. t●mbs quotes them ) in every age many of the greeks unto this day keep the custome of deferring baptism to little ones till they could themselves make a confession of their faith. and the armenians are confessed by heylin in his macrocos . p. 575. to defer baptism to their children till they be grown to years of knowledge . 6. those foolish and sinful adjuncts , which the authors and promoters of infant baptism , were constrained to invent to make it look like baptism ( for example their device of godfathers , &c. ) do sufficiently declare it to be of an infirm and humane original . 7. the grounds upon which paedo-baptism was at first urged , are now in a manner wholly declined , and new grounds daily invented whereon to built it . which are no sooner laid , but raized again by some of it's own favorites . 8. that the stoutest assertors of infant baptism , hath ever met with as stout opposers ; thus agustine , met with the donatists and pelagius whose arguments he could not avoid but by running into greater absurdity , and though they are blamed ( and perhaps justly ) for holding some errours , so also is augustine and that not undeservedly . 9. that many of the learne● have much abused this age in telling them the anabaptists ( i. e. the baptized churches ) are of late edition a new sect , &c. when from their own writings the clean contrary is so evident . tenthly and lastly . observe how the baptism of repentance for remission of sins , which is that one and only baptism commanded in holy scripture hath been neglected , traduced ; and its affertors frequently abused , and that chiefly by thi● device of paedo-baptism which now hath so lost it 's first form , that it cannot with any shew of truth o● good sence be called baptism , and ought therefore to cease with its follow errors , viz. the giving the ●ords supper to infants , &c. that god may be justified in the submissi●n of all sinners to the baptism of repentance for remission of sins , luke 7. 39. the second part of the promise of the spirit . delivered in a sermon upon 1. cor. 12. 1. to which is added a post-script out of the works 〈◊〉 dr. jer. taylor , touching the layin● on of hands , chiefly declaring ho● religiously it was observed by th● antient christians , as it is now revived by divers of the baptize● christians of this age . 1 cor. 12. 1. now concerning spiritual gifts brethren i would not have you ignorant . there was never more need for th● church of god to seek and searc● for all those things which god hat● promised for her strength and encou●agement then now partly for that her ●pposers are men of exquisite parts by ●eans of all arts and sciences which ●●e not more profitable when used in 〈◊〉 way of subserviency to the truth , ●●en pernitious when used in opposi●●on to it ( as it often falleth out they ●re ) and partly for that ignorance of ●hat god hath promised for his churches comfortable subsistance , ●roves a great occasion and temptati●● to christians to trust to failing and ●●comfortable helps in the great bu●●ness of the ministry of the word and ●rayer , &c. now in the words which we have ●●osen the apostle shews his care for ●●e church at corinthus ( and in them 〈◊〉 all churches ) that they should not 〈◊〉 ignorant concerning spiritual gifts ●●d labours in three chapters toge●●er to instruct them fully in that point ●●der several considerations , and ●●●st , 1. by giving them a definition of those gifts , or shewing what they are , verse 8. 9. 10. viz. a word of wisdom , a word of knowledge , faith , the gifts of healing , the working of miracles , prophesie , discerning of spirits , divers kinds of tongues , interpretation of tongues , which definition or enumeration of gifts he seems to inlarge , chap , 13. 26. a psalm , a doctrine , &c. 2. by shewing that the church hath a perpetual right to , and interest in all these gif●s , chap. 14. 1. desire sor be zealous after spiritual gifts , chap. 12 ▪ 31. covet earnestly the best gifts chap. 14. 39. covet to prophesie and forbid not to speak with tongues . 3. by shewing whereto these gifts d●serve , or to what end they were given ▪ chap. 14. 12. forasmuch as ye are zealous of the spiritual gifts , seek tha● ye may excel to the edification of th● church , ver . 31. that all may learn , and all be comforted , eph. 4 12. fo● the perfecting the saints for the wor● of the ministry , for the edifying of the body of christ . 4. by distinguishing of gifts as they are more or less necessary and accordingly gives direction which to prefer in our asking them ( yet so as not to forbid the use of any of them , so it might be done with edification ) chap. 14. 1. desire spiritual gifts but rather that ye may prophesie . ver. 5. i would have ye all speak with tongues but rather that ye prophesied , for greater is he that prophesieth , then he that speaketh with tongues . ver. 5. he that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifyeth himself , but he that prophesieth edifyeth the church . 5. by shewing that all these gifts , how excellently soever any are endowed with them , yet therein he is not to rest satisfyed because there is yet a far more excellent way of receiving the s●irit , without which all gifts are as nothing . this more excellent way he refers to the fruit of the spirit , which he both distinguisheth by its several branches , 1 cor. 13. 4 , 5 , 6 , 7. compar'd with gal. 5. 22. 23. and also comprehends the whole in that excelling grace of charity follow after charity , chap. 4. 1. the greatest of these is charity . 6. by giving a notable rule to know who are indeed spiritual christians from such as only pretend to be so , chap. 14. 35. if any man think himself to be a prophet or spiritual , let him acknowledge the things i write unto you are the commands of the lord. those then are not truly spiritual , or true prophets who ( as many on the right hand ) do not only lay aside the commands of the lord , but prescribe to others their own traditions , neither those on the other hand , who prefer their poor conceits and notions , as if the word of god came out from them , when though ( perhaps ) it came to them , yet it came not to them only , ver . 36. thus much briefly to shew what the apostle means in this place by spiritual gifts , and in what respects he would not have the church to be ignorant concerning them . nor shall i insist upon all those particulars now , but only that which may be most needful to be demonstrated , and that is the second particular . for i find , it is not only a general conceit among the national churches , that the extraordinary gifts of the spirit were only temporary , and now ceased , but also very many in the baptized churches are doubtful ( at the least ) in this matter , as if that glorious promise of pouring out of the spirit according to the prophesie of joel , and the reception thereof by the primitive churches , were taken away long since from the churches which succeed them , and not to be so much as looked for in these days ! but that this is a very great mistake , and that the contrary , even that , that very promise of the spirit and every part of it , from the time of its first effusion upon the day of pentecost , acts 2. belongs to the church throughout all ages to the end of the world. i hope to evince to the satisfaction such as desire to see the truth in this matter . and first from the scope of the apostle , in these three chapters . where as it is his designed subject to discourse of the gifts of the spirit , so he informs us that god hath set them there , namely in his church , that is , he hath placed , setled or fixed , that one spirit in that one body , nor for a few days only , and then to leave her as a body without a spirit for ever after , in respect of spiritual gifts , but to abide there as in his temple * both by gifts and graces , even the same which christ by vertue of his assention obtained when he ascended on high , which gifts are given to the church for the work of the ministry , for the edification of the body till the whole be compleated . see to this purpose ephes . 4. from vers ▪ 4. to 16. again , the promise of the holy spirit is made by our lord himself to the church for ever . john 14. 16. i will pray the father and he shall give you another comforter that he may abide with you for ever &c. i say with the church , for it were a strange exposi●ion to restrain this for ever to the age of the apostles ( as some do ) for sith the apostles and first churches could neither pray nor prophysie as they ought , but as that spirit did help their infirmity , it were strange the subsequent should be able to do it though destitute of that distance , seeing prophysie is expresly one of those spirituall gifts , as before we have shewed . that great apostle peter , dates the promise of the holy spirit very largely , acts , 2. 38. &c. as descending to the very skirt , or last age of the church of god , even to as many as the lord our god shall call , and he here takes the promise in t●at sence wher● in jo●l meant it , and the church had then received it , which clearly intends both the gifts and graces of the spirit , for as 't is sure they received then very great gifts , so 't is said great grace was upon them all . act● . _____ this very p●omise of the father is by this apostle appropriated to all the called of the lord , even the servants and hand maids in th●se days . now these days must either be a few days at the beginning of the gospel , or it must be referred to the whole time of that glorious dispens●●ion if the first , then how shall all the called of the lord receive it ? or who will tell us when these days expired ? but we know that these days the latter days last time , and last days are used with some frequency in scripture , to point out the time of the gospel as it succeeded the time of the law. during all which time we are sure that the duties in generall ( and perhaps some difficult duties which were not formerly known ) which were imposed upon the first churches , are laid upon the churches to the end of the world , mat. 28. 20. teaching them to observe all things whatsoever i have commanded you , &c. must the churches now contend earnestly for the faith ( and that both against old and new errors ) must she be the salt of the earth , the light of the world must she strive to preach the gospel of the kingdom to all nations , must she keep her self in the love of god building up her self in her most holy faith , praying in the holy ghost ? surely , if these duties remain , and the lord requires that she should glorifie him in the faithful and constant discharge hereof as also in suffering for his sake ; it cannot reasonably be imagined that he should recall his holy spirit , in the gifts thereof from her who when she had them all , had nothing that was superfluous , but stood in need of all to furnish her for the work she stood ingaged to do , in these forementioned and other like considerations , sith then our god doth require the same service of his churches now , which he required of his churches in the first ages of the gospel , let us not imagine he will require the same brick , and not allow the same straw . that the gifts of the spirit here intendby our apostle are the portion of the church in every age ( as her right ) appeareth , from the nature of these exhortations she is under to ask them . luk. 11. 13. how much more shall your heavenly father give his holy spirit to them that ask it — ask and it shall be given unto you . vers , 10. how frequent is our apostle in these 3. chapters in his exhortations to this church ( and in them to all others ) to desire spirituall gifts , to covet earnestly the best gifts , to covet to prophesie , wishing that they may speak with tongues , and warning them not to prohibet that gift . now to what purpose is all this if these gifts be ceased and that the church may not now expect them ? i hope no man will say these exhortations are now out of date least in so doing he deprive us of the exhortation to charity , for they are so linked together as the one cannot cease as 't is an exhortation ) before the other . follow after charity and desire spiritual gifts and rather that ye may prophesie . thus we see the church being under perpetual exhortations , to seek for spiritual gifts without any restirction , necessarily infers her perpetual right to them and every of them , which consideration alone is sufficient ( as i conceive ) to satisfie any christian , that the promise of the spirit ( even the same that was given to the first churches ) in respect of gifts as well as graces belongs to the church of christ throughout all ages . let us now consider , whether the church of god do not even now injoy the promised spirit in the gifts and graces of it at this day , for the latter , i think there is none do●h question it , and yet should the graces or fruits of the spirit which now appear , be strictly considered by what did formerly shine forth in the churches , it might peradventure put us to some pause , yet not thence to conclude that we have not that spirit of grace , or that the graces thereof are ceased , but it would surely become a provocation , to cry mightily to god for an enlargement of what we have received in that behalf . and as i intend not to boast of the gifts of any , so i may safely presume that the gifts received in these days are far more then i can set down , or give you account of because the church is diffused through many nations , and her gifts there unknown to me ; i will then restrain my observations to the churches in this poor island , who may not vie with all churches , but rather in humility conclude themselves to be short of many concerning spirituall gifts . and yet , shall we say she hath none ( or may we not rather say she hath many that are endowed with a word of knowledge and that meerly by a gift from god , having otherwise , no capacity or fa●ulty more then others , but therein far short of many of their brethren ; only the gift of god , and no naturall faculty hath made the differance : how have men of knowledge in this world , been found to have no skill , and the foolish to attain knowledge , and some to excell so far , as to confound the wisdome of the wise and to bring to nought the understanding of the prudent , yet out of the mouth of babes hath our god ordained strength , and thereby hath sometimes stilled the enemy . and as wisdome is usefull to direct , so hath god given it to such as fear him ; who if we respect their education &c. could never have acquired it ; some by a word of wisdome here understand , the well ordering of affaires in the church , others the right or usefull applycation of the word &c. surely according to these expositions the church hath some , even by the gift of the spirit of god to go before here in these respects . neither is the gift of healings so abnegated , but that something of it hath appeared , as many living witness by experience have testified , and how far faith ( over and beside the common faith ) hath therein appeared , as also in some other memorable undertakings against sathan himself , or against his designs , with some good success , becomes others to consider more then it doth me to write ! as for me i rest satisfied , that miracles are not ceased as a gift to the church of god , though perhaps they are but rarely found , as being ( in the wisdom of god ) not so necessary now in many places as in times past . now for the gift of p●ophesie , which the apostle here intends , 't is certain the church enjoys it very gratiously in these days sith she hath them that by the gift of gods spirit ( and not by acquired arts ) do minister to her the word of life , by exhortation , to her edification and comfort ; which yet she could not have if the gifts were ceased seeing prophesie is not only one of the spirituall gifts but the very best of them , and the greatest of them all . nor is the spirit of our god removed in the gift of discerning of spirits ; for if it had false spirits had by their subtilty ere this day made havock of the churches , but through the grace of god , notwithstanding all their cunning craftiness they have been discerned , and their designs prevented ; and though perhaps charity for some time hath born with such , in hope of the best , yet this is no other thing then ought to be , as may be seen by the carriage of our lord toward judas , and his apostles towards fome others . the gifts of doctrine and praising our god with a psalme is not yet removed , our teachers ( as taught of god ) remaining in every church ; where also are some that are skillfull in praisiing the lord to the edification of the church ; as for revelations , there might perhaps sometimes be strange or hidden things made known by some speciall gift of god and why may not god do such things now ? however it is not unsafe to understand the revellations here ment , by chap. 14. 30. if any thing be revealed to another that sitteth by let the first hold his peace &c. which cannot so well be understood af a new oracle as of some further subject or more full explication of the matter treated on by him that spake first ; according to which interpr●tation we may say the church hath yet the gift of revellations . and thus far we seem to be got safe , not any thing so materiall intervening , as to conclude against the continuance of these spirituall gifts in the church to this day , so that the present repairers of the house or city of god may comfort themselves by the consideration of the words of the prophet , hagg. 2. 5. according to the word which i covenanted with you when you came out of egypt , so my spirit remaineth amo●g you , fear ye not . but now the g●ft of tongues and interpretation of tongues , these ! where shall we find them . doubtless these gifts are rarely if at all found in these days , and in this nation , so as to sute with those who frequently in some churches at first received those gifts ; the reasons are many ( but none such as conclude the church from under the promise of these gifts ) as first these gifts differ much from the rest , chiefly in this that they may be supply'd another way , for the conversion of persons of all languages , or such as can speak other languages and interpret the same to others , doth supply the absence of those gifts ; 2. the churche ( in this and i suppose other nations ) have very little need of these gifts , and therefore considering that they are not so necessary as the rest , the apostle leaves these with a forbid them not , whilst the rest he wills us to c●v●t earnestly . but 3 ? one great cause ( as i conceive ) why these g●fts are so much absent , and the other no more received , i● because we either ask them not at all , or else we ask them amiss . for many have been so ●ar from a king these gifts of the spirit , that in truth they have been arguing that these gifts are not attainable , and then t is no wonder they have not been received . again where there hath been some understanding of the interest we have in those gifts , there faith in asking hath been and is very low , and atended ( perhaps ) with great wavering , and then little can be expected at the hand of the almighty jam. 1. and here let me premonish you of one thing which ( by my little reading ) i perceive to have been a great provocation to the lord to wi●hdraw his gifts in times p●st ( and i fear it again ) and that was ●and and i doubt is ) an over curious performance , of that which god gave spirituall gifts for , to wit the ministering of the word , when the churches grew populous , and great personages came to her communion , the unwary pastours , let go the simplicity of th● gospell enclining so much to curiosities that some counsells decreed tha● a b●shop should not read heathen authors and gra●ian is said to have this passag● viz. doth not he seem to wa●k in vanit● and da●kness of mind , who vexing himself day a●d night in the studies of logick in the persuite of physicall specula●ion one while elevates himself above the highest heavens and afterward throws himself below the nethermost part of the earth true , the use that may be made o● reading is one thing , and the abuse another ; however let the least gift o● god be preferred in the ministry o● the word , above the greatest of human arts , otherwise we are in danger to incur the guilt of despising prophysyings ▪ lastly the truth in hand appeareth from the silence of scriptures , touching th● privation of any of the gifts of the spi●it till that which is perfect become , 1. ●or . 13. 8. 9. charity never faileth but whether there be prophesies they shall fail , whether there be tongues they shall cease , whether there be knowledge it shall vanish away , for we know in part and we prophe●●e in part . but when that which is perfect is come then that which is in part sha'l be done away . hence observe a finall determination of the matter in question , if any ask when the gifts of prophysie , knowledge and tongues &c. shall cease ? the apostles answer is , even then , when that which is perfect is come , or when we come to see face to face , or as we are seen . so then seeing the gifts of the spirit do yet remain to the church , and every of them ( as her need requires ) are attainable , it remains that we humbly consider our wants , and desire spirituall gifts , you ●ove● earnestly the best gifts . from these considerations i conclude , that howsoever it is too true that the gifts received by the present churches are but low ( and truly so are her graces ) yet thence we may not , we ought not to infer , that the gifts promised are ceased , or that the church hath now no interest therein . but contrarywise as the promise of gifts ( as well as graces ) pertains to us as we are the called of god , we ought to ●tir one another up , to seek with all dilligence and full assurance for the spirit of promise , which being received , will abundantly supply our wants , help our infirmities , convince the contrary minded by its powerfull evidence and demonstration in the ministry of the word and prayer . there be two things objected against that which is said , the first . ob : if the promise of the spirit do thus belong to the church , then this will follow , that the doctrines delivered by such gifted men must pass for oracles of god being the effects ●f the spirit of truth whose propertie it 〈◊〉 to lead into all truth . and hence ●ome have conceived the decrees ●f their counsells to be infallible , and ●thers have given out of their private ●tters or books that they were as in●allibly the word of god as the scrip●ure &c. ans . 1. those gifts do not argue ●he infallibillity of him that hath them , ●or then all the gifted brethren at co●inth had been infallible which yet they ●ere not , witness their great want of wisdom how to use their gifts to edi●ication , as also the apostles refer●ing what they delivered to tryal , telling ●s of gifted person in general ( and as ●uch not excluding himself ) that they ●ee but darkly , prophesie but in part , know but in part , so that perfection ●erein is not to be pretended . 2. that the apostles did deliver infallible and undoubted verities for all to submit to , as the very word of god &c. proceeded not hence , viz. because they were gifted men . but as being the chosen witnesses of god , purposely ordained to that very end , for which cause they saw that just one , heard the words of his mouth , and by infallible proves were assured of the resurrection of our lord and of his will concerning his kingdom , john 15 ▪ 16. ye have not chosen me , but i have chosen you and ordained you that you should go and bring forth fruit , and that your fruit should remain , that whatsoever ye shall ask the father in my name he may give it you , see acts 10. 40. 41. and acts 22. 14. 15. the god of o●r fathers hath chosen thee that thou should kn●w his will , and see that just one , and shouldest hear the voice of his mouth . for thou shalt be his witness unto all men of what thou hast seen and heard . these are the fathers of the churches , the foundation layers , the master-builders in such an elevated consideration , as that the authority of one is to be valued above the authority of ten thousand subsequent teachers , which is a greater number then ever yet convened in a generall councell , 1. cor. 4. 15. 16. these were such fathers as laid up such a stock of doctrine for their children , as whoso bringeth not along with them is not to be received . 2. john. 8. 9 , 10. and whosoever corrupteth by adding takeing away or perverting is to be held accursed , to be nameless in the city of god and the book of life , the conclusion is this , gifted persons , on whom the holy ghost fell as it did on the apostles , were not thereby impowered , to propose new oracles , or to be the apostles competitors , and if any presume to these things ( as some did in the apostles dayes ) they shall fulfill that sentence , 2. tim. 3. 9. they shall proceed no further for their folly shall be made manifest to all men as theirs also was . ob. 2. if the gifts of the spirit , 1. cor. 12. have continued in the church as you teach , 't is strange we have no account of them since their days , unless we regard the papacy who have claim'd the gift of miracles in every age , which they urge as an undoubted proof that they only are the church of christ . ans . 1. it is true that people do pretend , as 't is said in the objection and it is now my business to examine the goodness of that pretence , only this i say they cannot find their church to have had a being in every age since christ , and therefore very unlikely to prove what they say in the case of miracles . but put case that since they have had a being in the world , some signs or wonders have been done among them , yet hence to infer the truth of their church state is very unsafe , sith before an equall judge others will be found to have as clear a claim to miracles as themselves . * mat. 7. 22. many w●ll say unto me in that day have we not prophesi●d in thy name , and in thy name have we cast out devils and in thy name have done many wondrous works . and then will i profess un●o them i never knew you , depart from me ye workers of iniquity , and though our saviour saith , no man can do a miracle in his name and lightly speak evil of him , yet that very speech supposes the thing possible . it doth not follow therefore that wheresoever miraculous gifts are there is the true church , but she is only known by her conformity to the doctrine of god our saviour , chiefly in the principles of religion , heb. 6. 1. 2. for we are his house if built upon that foundation of repentance , faith , &c ▪ and pa●takers of him , if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast to the end otherwise not . heb. 3. 6. 14. if any come unto you and bring not this doctrine receive him not to house , no , though he work miracles , for thus saith the lord. if there arise among you a prophet or a dreamer of dreams , and giveth thee asign or a wonder , and the sign or the wonder come to pass , whereof he spake unto thee [ now note if he do this ] saying let us go after other gods ( which thou hast not koown ) and let us serve them , thou shalt not hearken to the words of that prophet — for the lord your god proveth you to know whether you love the lord your god , with all your heart , and with all your soul. and hence learn this one thing that gods truth is not to give place to any gifts , but all gifts are to subserve to the furtherance of his truth . to conclude as we ought not to be ignorant of the gifts of the spirit , so neither of the means ordain'd of god to obtain those gifts . the primitive churches are herein our best guide as the word directs . t is well known ( and i think granted on all hand● ) that they used the solemn ordinance of prayer and imposition of hands for obtaining the promised spirit , at least with respect to these gifts . now be it so ( though i say for the graces or fruits also ) then seeing these gifts are promised to us as well as unto them , and are attainable , and in part ( at least ) attained by many , what should hinder the churches , but that now they should tread in this path , with faith and full assurance that a blessing is in it ? as in holy baptism we are placed ( as it were ) among those whose sins are washed away in the blood of the lamb. so in this holy ordinance of prayer and imposition of hands we are in a solemn manner ushered , into the promise of the holy spirit , and as the pardon of our sins signified in baptism doth not prevent , but better capaciate us to pray daily forgive us our ●●espasses , so imposition of hands doth put us into a better capacity to seek dayly for the gifts and graces of the spiri● , b●cause now solemnly intercessed in the promise , by that very way the primi●ive saints were intercessed therein , acts 8. 15 , 17. acts 19. 2. 6. 2 tim. 1. 6. heb. 6. 12. who when they were down prayed for them that they might receive the holy ghost , then laid they their hands on them and they receithe holy ghost . have they received of the holy ghost since the believed ? and when paul had laid his hand is on them , the holy ghost 〈◊〉 on them . wherefore i put th●e in rem●mb●ance that thou stir up the gift of god which is in thee by the putting o● of my hands . — the foundation of repentance , and of faith towards god of the d●ctrine of bap●ism and of laying on of hands , of the resurrection of the dead , and of eternal judgement . what shall i 〈◊〉 , the scriptures are evidence sufficient that this ordinance is of divine institution , is from heaven ; the promise which it leads to ●s perpetual , and universal , it belong , to the whole body . there is one body and one spirit even as ye are called i● 〈◊〉 hope of your calling . a post-script . taken out of the works of dr. jer. taylor , in defence of laying on of hands , as a never-failing ministery . we have seen the original [ of laying on of hands ] from christ the practice and exercise of it in the apostles , and the first converts in christianity , that which i shall now remark is , that this is established and passed into a christian doctrine . the waranty for what i say is the words of st. paul where the holy rite of confirmation , so called from the effect of this ministration , and expressed by the ritual part of it , imposition of hands is reckoned a foundamental point 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 not laying again the foundation of repentance from deas works , and of faith towards god , of the doctrine of baptism , and of laying on of hands , of resurrection from the dead and of eternal judgement ; here are six foundamental points of st. pauls catechism which he said as t●e foundation or beginning of the institution of the christian church , and amongst these imposition of hands is reckoned as a p●rt of the foundation and therefore they who deny it , dig up foundations . now that this imposition of hands is that which the apostles used in confirming the baptized and invocating the holy g●ost upon them rem●ins to be pro●●● . — absolution of penitents cannot be meant here , not only b●cause we never read that the apostles did use that ceremony in their absolutions , but because the apost●e speaking of the foundation in which baptism is . — there need●d no absolution but bap●ismal ; for they and we believi●g gone baptism for the rem●ssion of sins , this is al the absolution that can be at the first and in the foundation . the * other was secunda post 〈◊〉 frag●●m tabula . 〈◊〉 me in after when men had m●de shipwrack of their good conscienscience and were as st. peter saith — unmindful of the former cleansing . 2. it cannot be meant of ordination and this is also evident . 1. because the apostle saves he would thence forth leave to speak of the foundation and go on to perfection , that is to higher misteries . now in ri●uals of which he speaks , there is none higher then ordination . 2. the apostle saying he would speak no more of laying on of hands goes presentl● to discourse , of the misteriousness of the evangelical priest-hood , and the honor of that vocation , by which it is evident he spake nothing of ordination in the catechism , or narrative of foundamentals . 3. this also appears from t●e context , not only because laying on of hands is immediately set after baptism but also because in the very next words of this discourse , he does enumerate and apportion to baptism , and [ imp●sition of hands ] their proper and proportioned effects . to b●ptism il●umira●ion , — and to confirma●ion he reckons tasting the heavenly gift and being made par●akers of the holy ghost ▪ by the thing sig●ified declaring the sign , and by ●he miste●y the 〈◊〉 ▪ upon these words ●t chrisostom● discoursing sayes , that all these are foundamental articles : that it that ●e ought to repent from dead works ; to be baptized ●●to the faith of christ , and be made worthy of the gift of the spirit , who is given by imposition of hands and we are to be taught the misteries of the resurrection and eternal judgement . this catechism ( sayes he ) is perfect , so that if any man have faith in god , and being baptized is also confirmed and so tasts the heavenly gift , and partakes of the holy ghost , by hope of the resurrection tasts of the good things of the world to come , if he falls away from this state — digging down and turning up these foundations he shall never be built again , he can never be baptized again — confirmed again . god will not begin again , &c. he cannot be made a christian twice . — this is the full explication of this excellent place , and any other ways it cannot be reasonably exp●icated . — i shall observe one thing more out of this testimony of st. paul he cal●s it the doctrine of baptism and laying on of hands , by which it does not only appear to be a lasting ministry , because no part of the christian doctrine could change or be abolished but hence also it appears to be divine institution . for it were not st. paul had been guilty of that which our blessed savior reproves in the scribes and pharises , and should have taught for doctrines the commandements of men. which because it cannot be supposed , it must follow that this doctrine of confirmation , or imposition of hands is apostolicall and divine . the argument is clear , and not easily to be reproved . yea but what is this to us ? it belong'd to the days of wonder and extraordinary . the holy ghost breathed upon the apostle● and apostolicall men , but then he breath'd his last ; vecendente gratiae recessit disiplina ; when the grace departed we had no further need of the cerimony . in answer to this i shall 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 by divers particulars evince plainly , that this ministry — was not temporary and relative only to the acts of the apostles , but was to descend to the church for ever . this indeed is done already in the proceeding sect in which it is clearly manifested , that christ himself made the baptism of the spirit necessary to the church ▪ he declar'd the fruits of this baptism , and did particularly relate it to the descent of the holy spirit upon the church at and after that glorious pe●tie●st . he sa●ctified it and commended it b● hi● example ; just as he sanctified the flood jordan , and all other waters to the misticall washing away of sin , viz. by his great example , and fulfi●ling this righteousness also . this doctrine the apostles first found in their own persons , and experience , and practised to all their converts , by a solemn , and externall rite ; and all this p●ssed into an evangelicall , doct●ine the whole mistery being signified by the externall rite in the words of the apostle , as before it was by christ expressing only the internall . so that there needs n● more strength to this argument . but that there may be wanting no moments to this t●uth which the holy scripture affords , i shall add more weight to it ; and , 1. the perpetuity of this rite appears , because this great gift of the holy ghost was promised to abide with the chu●ches for ever . and when the je●s hea●d the apostles speak with tongues at the first and miraculous d●s●ent of the spirit in pen●●c●st , to take of the stra●ge●ess of the wond●r , and the envy of the power . st. pe●er at that very time tells them plainly . re●●nt and be baptiz●d eve●y one of you — and 〈◊〉 shall rece●●e the gift of the holy ghost 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 not the meanest person among you all , but shall receive this great thing , which ye observe us to have received and not only you , but your children too , not of this ●eneration only , sed nati natorum et q●i n●centur ab illis , but your children for ever . for the promise is to you and to your children and to all that are affar off , even to as many as the lord your god shall call ▪ now then let it be considered . 1. this gift is by promise , by a promise not made to the apostles alone , but to all ; to all for ever . 2. consider here at the very first as there is a verbum , a word of promise , so there is a sacramentum too i use the word — — in a large sence only , and according to the stile of the primitive church ) it is a rite partly morall ; and partly cerimoniall , the first is prayer , the other is laying on of the hands : and to an effect that is but transient and extraordinary , and of a little abode , it is not easily to be supposed that such a solemnity should be appointed . i say such a solemnity ; that is , it not imaginable that a solemn rite , annexed to a perpetuall promise should be transient and temporary for by the nature of relatives they may be of equall abode , the cerimony or rite was anexed to the promise , and therefore also must be for ever . * 3 : this is attested by st. paul who reduces this argument to this mistery saying , in home after that you believed — ye were sealed with the holy spirit of promise . he spake it to the ephesians who well understood his meaning , by remembring what was done to themselves by the apostle , act. 19. 6. but a while before , who after he had baptised them did lay his hands upon them , and so they received the holy spirit of promise ; for here the very matter of fact is the clearest comentary on st. pauls words — — but fourthly . what hinders any man from a quick consent at the first representation of these plain reasonings and authorityes ? is it because there were extraordinary effects accompanying this ministration , and because now there are not , that we will suppose the whole oeconomy must cease ? if this be it , and indeed this is all that can be pretended in opposition to it , it is infinitely vain . 1. because these ex●raordinary effect , did continue even after the death of all the apostles . st. frenoeus saies they did continue even to his time , even the greatest instance of miraculous power . et infraternitate , sap●ssimc propter aliquid necessarium , &c. when god saw it necessary , and the church prayed and fasted much , they did miraculous things , even of reducing the spirit to a dead man. 2. in the days of the ap●stles the spirit did produce miraculous effects , but neither always , nor at all in all men , are all workers of miracles , &c. no , the spirit bloweth where it listeth , and as he listeth he gives gifts to all , but to some after this manner , and some after that . 3. these gifts were not necessary at , all times any more then to all persons , but the promise did belong to all and was made to all , and was performed to all . — and therefore if the grace be given to all , there is no reason that the ritual ministration of that grace should cease upon pretence that the spirit is not given extraordinarily . other arguments he hath ( many ) to the same purpose , and a● i conceive well worthy the consideration of all christians * specially those that are doubtfull in this principle of religion but i shall sh●t up all with a few of his citations out of the works of antient writers , in behalf of this point of faith . and first noteing how that originally it came from the apostles . in the second century he brings thophilus , antiochenus and ●ertullian , the latter saith thus , d● hinc manus imponitur , &c. after baptism the hand is imposed by blessing , calling , and inviting the holy spirit . — being cleansed by baptismal water , we are dispos'd for the holy spirit under the hand of the angel of the church , and to this effect the rest , &c. for the third century he brings origen , cyprian , dionis , and eusebius , the first testimony set down is out of cyprian who writing upon the passage in acts 8. 14. saith , which custome is also descended to us , that they who are baptized might be brought by the rulers of the church and by prayer and imposition of hands receive the lords signature , &c. for the fourth hundred he brings melchiades , optatus , civil , and others speaking very highly of the use of this ministration and then brings urba● the first , as more plainly setting down what the rest delivered more siguratively , in these words omnes fideles , &c. all faithful people ought to receive the holy spirit by imposition of the bishops hands after baptism . and having added yet more witnesses of this kind , he alleadges six counsells , to evince the same thing , viz. that this ordinance of prayer , laying on of hands were received together with the other principles by christians generally . the decree of one of these counsels ( concerning such as had received baptism in a regular form ) is in these words manus ●antum eiis imponatur ut accipiant spiritum sanctum . let there be imposition of hands that they may receive the holy ghost . afterwards the dr. concludes thus . so many fathers testifying the practice of the church and teaching this doctrine , and so many more fathers as it were assembled in six councells , all giving witness to this holy rite and that in pursuance of scripture are too great a blood of witnesses to be despised by any man that calls himself a christian . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a41783-e410 gal. 3. 27. heb. 6. 2. act. 2. 38. mark 1. 5. acts 8. 12 , acts 18 , 8. libert . proph● . p , 228. to pag. 246. * which yet the baptists do not grant . * it is a saying of augustin , de trahe verbum quid est aqua &c. take away the word and what is water , nothing but water joyn the word to the element and it is made a sacrament . this consideration is very concluding against paedo baptism , for to the infant , the word is as it were taken away from the element , a●d cons●quent y accordirg to aug. it can be no sacrament to them at all . ex manu controv● under the probation of divers of their doctors , professors and students in theology . p. 372. to 377. s. n. antid . se diod te . in act 2. * a thing wholy unknown that they have any such receit of the spirit . eras. parrap . ●n 1 cor. 7. eraz. par . on math. 28. ludovicus vives . fabian . hugo grotius anno 315. con ne●caes . * 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 tertul. lib. de bap. cap. 18. tertull. lib. de baptis . cap. 18. * 〈◊〉 . to quest . in ● . baptisma . mark 6. perseverence in faith must here be understood , with the fruits of faith a●so . * for they do ●●t only deny such infants the act , but the ●ight to baptism because the children of ●nbelievers . verse . 4. litturgy . marq. of worcest . certam . relig. * secundum ▪ fisher . * for gods ways are not to be left to mans will be commands and t is mans duty to obey . ex opp . perk. s●e the scholast . discourse against symbol with antichrist . notes for div a41783-e4610 the poynt to be proved . 1 from the apostles scope . * 1 cor. 3. 16. 2 cor. 6. 16. 2. from the extent of the promise . 3. from the nature of the duties of the church . 4. from the nature and perpetuity of the exhortations to seek for the spirit . 5. from the continuation of spiritual gifts in the church to this day . it is probable that paul made use of his education in speaking divers languages , as may be perceived by his discou●ses in the acts of the apostles , and by the epistles which he wrote to severall churches , useing therein ( as 't is confessed ) frequently the greek tongue . 6. from the silence of the scriptures , as to the privation of the gifts of the spirit &c , 1. cor. 2. 4. * which yet shall avail them nothing , because they wanted truth with their gifts . notes for div a41783-e6520 * me●ning that laying on of hands used by some at the absolving penetents . * [ i think this wi●l abide tryall , sith we may not expect a change of the dispensation we are under ; otherwise the promise might continue under some other rite or elce without it ] * who know how to read men without being scandi ized if they meet with phraises , and some nothing which are doubtful as its the case of most that write . ● con. arles . c. 8. st. paul's catechism, or, a brief and plain explication of the six principles of the christian religion, as recorded heb. 6., 1,2 with some considerations of the principles of natural and universal religion, as previous, and yet subservient to the rules of revealed and positive relgion: containing also, the duties of children to their superiors, written chiefly for the instruction of young christians, children and servants in all christian families / by tho. grantham. grantham, thomas, 1634-1692. 1687 approx. 122 kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from 32 1-bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : 2008-09 (eebo-tcp phase 1). a41788 wing g1545 estc r39432 18410718 ocm 18410718 107509 this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons 0 1.0 universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase 1, no. a41788) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set 107509) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, 1641-1700 ; 1634:7) st. paul's catechism, or, a brief and plain explication of the six principles of the christian religion, as recorded heb. 6., 1,2 with some considerations of the principles of natural and universal religion, as previous, and yet subservient to the rules of revealed and positive relgion: containing also, the duties of children to their superiors, written chiefly for the instruction of young christians, children and servants in all christian families / by tho. grantham. grantham, thomas, 1634-1692. 62 p. [s.n.], london printed : 1687. imperfect: stained, with some loss of print. reproduction of original in the british library. created by converting tcp files to tei p5 using tcp2tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between 1473 and 1700 available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the 25,363 texts created during phase 1 of the project have been released into the public domain as of 1 january 2015. anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. 5% (or 5 pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of 100 instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level 4 of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p5, characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng bible. -n.t. -hebrews vi, 1-2 -criticism, interpretation, etc. baptists -catechisms. apologetics -early works to 1800. apologetics -history -17th century. 2007-11 tcp assigned for keying and markup 2007-11 apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images 2008-01 john latta sampled and proofread 2008-01 john latta text and markup reviewed and edited 2008-02 pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion st. pavl's catechism : or , a brief and plain explication of the six principles of the christian religion , as recorded heb. 6. 1 , 2. with some considerations of the principles of natural and universal religion : as previous , and yet subservient to the rules of revealed and positive religion . containing also , the duties of children to their superiors . written chiefly for the instruction of young christians , children and servants in all christian families . by tho. grantham . 2 john v. 4. i rejoiced greatly , that i found of thy children walking in truth , as we have received a commandment from the father . london , printed in the year , 1687. to all parents and masters of christian families . grace be multiplied , &c. beloved in christ ; as you are expresly bound by gospel-rules , to do that which is right unto your servants , and to bring up your children in the nurture and admonition of the lord ; so i am very sensible , that the capacity of many well-meaning christians is very low , to methodize their instructions in this behalf . and having a desire to serve you in what i may ; i have here presented you with some brief rules ( from the good word of god , which is able , through faith and love , to make our children wise to salvation ) which , by the blessing of god , i have found to be useful in my own family . be exhorted to tender the salvation of all that are under your care , above all other considerations , lest their blood be required of you . teach them the fear of god betimes , with their duties towards their superiours in every state of life ; for this shall be a means to preserve them from many dangerous erros in these daies , and also adorn the gospel of god our saviour , to whose grace i comit you , and remain , your loving brother , t. grantham . the introduction . to children , and servants , concerning the knowledg of the true god. the question , whether there be any god ? is so wicked and absurd , that none but fools will admit the debate . for he that shall once say in his heart there is no god , the next thought in him may be , that he himself is god , seeing there is no creature known to us above man. the heavens , earth , and seas , do all serve him. but seeing he made not himself , nor any of these things ; it must be , that he that made man , and all things that are made , is above all , and to be obeyed in love above all , rev. 14. 6 , 7. remember therefore your creator in the days of your youth , and dedicate the prime of your strength to his service . content your selves with such a knowledg of god , as is held forth to you in his holy word and mighty works , and as shall be wrought in you by the spirit of grace , as you adhere to him. the sum of that revelation which god hath made of himself , to us in his holy word , may briefly be comprehended in these ensuing particulars ; eac● 〈◊〉 which i have confirmed , by some of the most clea● testimonies , as they relate to these particulars respespectively . i desire you to read and search the scriptures , to see whether these things be so . i. that god is one , or there is but one only true and living god. deut. 6. 4. exod. 20. 3. 1 cor. 8. 4 , 5 , 6. john 17. 3. who hath revealed himself in the gospel , by the name of the father , son , and holy ghost , mat. 28. 19. and these three are one , 1 john 5. 7. isa . 6. 3. ii. that the essence or being of this god , is revealed by christ to be a spirit . god is a spirit , john 4. 24. 2 cor. 3. 17. iii. that this god is eternal , without beginning , and without end , he abideth the same for ever . deut. 33. 27. psal . 90. 1 , 2. isa . 57. 15. psal . 93. 2. isa . 63. 16. hab. 1. 12. iv. that god is omnipotent , he can do whatsoever he pleaseth ; there is no restraint to the almighty . exod. 6. 3. job , chap. 38 , 39 , 40 , 41. psal . 62. 11. & 66. 3 , 5. jer. 10. 12. v. that god is omniscient , or knoweth all things , none of our thoughts nor actions can be hidden from his sight , psal . 139. 1 , to the end . isa . 45. 21. & 44. 7. prov. 15. 11. heb. 4. 12. vi. that god is holy , righteous , and true , he will judg the world in righteousness , and there is no unrighteousness in him. josh . 24. 19. 2 sam. 2. 2. psal . 5. 6. dan. 9. 7. john 17. 25. zeph. 3. 5. rev. 16. 5. acts 17. 31. vii . that this god is very gracious and merciful , no cruelty is in him ; he delighteth in mercy . exod. 34. 6. psal . 145. 9. 1 pet. 3. 20. isa . 27. 4. rom. 5. 20 , 21. jam. 5. 11. tit. 2. 11. viii . that god is perfect without any weakness , having no dependance upon any , he only is perfect . isa . 40. 12 , 13 , 14 , 15 , 21 , 22 , 28. deut. 32. 4. jer. 2. 5. psal . 75. 3. james 1. 17. ix . that the place of god's residence is in heaven , yet not confin'd to place , but is present every where as he pleaseth . mat. 6. 9. isa . 66. ● . psal . 123. 1. 1 king. 8. 39. psal . 139. 8 , 9 , 10. isa . 57. 15. psal . 68. 16. x. that nothing can be done without the permissive providence of god : yet many things are done contrary to his will. gen. 2. 17. & 3. 6. jer. 44. 2 , 3 , 4. levit. 26. 23 , 24. john 19. 11. 1 pet. 3. 17. mat. 10. 29. xi . it is unlawful to form any shape , image , or representation of almighty god ; no , not so much as in our minds or imaginations . deut. 4. 12 , 13 , 14 , 15 , 16 , 17 , 18 , 19. exod. 2. 4. psal . 106. 20 , 21. acts 17. 29. isa . 40. 15 , 16 , 18. rom. 1. 24. xii . that the compleat knowledg and enjoyment of this god , is not to be attained till after the glorious resurrection of the people of god ; then , and not till then , shall they know him fully . john 12. 26. 1 cor. 13. 9 , 10 , 12 , 13. 1 john 3. 1 , 2. mat. 13. 43. job 11. 7 , 8 , 9. this i say therefore , and testify in the lord , that ye henceforth walk not as other gentiles walk , in the vanity of their minds . having their vnderstanding darkned , being alienated from the life of god , through the ignorance that is in them , because of the blindness of their heart . who being past feeling , have given themselves over unto lasciviousness , to work all uncleanness witb greediness . but ye have not so learned christ , if so be you have heard him , and have been taught by him as the truth is in jesus . the lord give you understanding in all things . st. paul's catechism , &c. it may be convenient that this catechistical discourse be formed between the father as teacher , and the son as the learner ; and thus we proceed . son. sir , i desire to know the chief end for which i have a being in this world ? father . the chief end for which man had his being , was , that he might bear the image of his creator , to govern this world , gen. 1. 26 , 27. and to live in obedience to his creator , gen. 1. 26. & 2. 17. in the enjoyment of all good things . s. did man answer this chief end of the almighty in his creation ? f. no , adam ( the man we speak of ) did break the covenant of his god , and brought himself and all his posterity under the sentence of death , and the curse or condemnation of the almighty . gen. 3. 17 , 18 , 19. rom. 5. 18. s. did god leave adam and his posterity in this condition , without any means of recovery ? f. the mercy of god did intervene or come in between adam's sin , and the sentence due to him for sin , gen. 3. 15. by which he was put into a state of recovery from his dreadful fall. s. did this favour of god extend it self to adam and all his posterity ? f. yes verily , whole adam sinned , and whole adam had this tender of mercy . for as the offence abounded towards all men to condemnation , so the benefit abounded towards all men to justification of life , rom. 5. 18. s. what was adam's duty now in relation to his creator ? f. to love his merciful lord , and to serve him , by obeying him in duties of religion , and to walk humbly with his god , mich. 6. 8. s. what is religion ? f. the word religion signifies , an holy tye , bond or covenant , by which all men stand obliged to love and serve almighty god , their creator and preserver . to you , o men , i call , and my voice is to the sons of adam , prov. 8. 4. he hath shewed thee , o adam ( or man ) what is good — to do justly , love mercy , and walk humbly with thy god , mich. 6. 8. s. was adam left in a capacity to do this after the fall ? f. by the free grace of god , he and all his posterity are left or put into a capacity to obey god , so as he will accept them , when and in what he requires their obedience , else they could not sin by not obeying him , rom. 2. 1 , 2 , 14 , 15 , 16. s. surely , if god almighty do indeed require the duties of religion of all men , then there is undoubtedly a possibility of salvation for all men , this gives me some hope . i beseech you therefore make this plain , that god requires the duties of religion of all men. f. 1. undoubtedly all men are concern'd in the duties of religion , as their chief business ; otherwise they should not much excel the beasts of the field . 2. that knowledg which man hath , or the reason which god hath given him , being only imployed about earthly things , would only make him the most excellent animal : and yet some animals , or sensitive creatures , would seem to outdo him in some things ; and particularly the hony-bee , both in the gathering of hony , and preserving of it ; and in the government she maintains in her common-wealth , to the due imitation whereof few monarchs could arrive , if any at all have done it . 3. whilst man may suppose himself the most excellent creature in the gift of invention , &c. yet when the admirable quickness of sense , agility of body , with the foreknowledg which is in many of them of times and seasons , and the necessary provisions which they make for themselves accordingly , without any to instruct or exhort them thereunto , is duly considered , it may much abate the pride of man , who indeed has learned much more of them , than they of him ; and yet they can and do learn many things of man also . s. i see plainly , without god to be our god , and religion to be our business , we are as the beasts of the field . i desire a further demonstration . f. if all men be not concern'd to mind the business of religion , with hope of the acceptance of god therein , they are exposed to as ill a condition as the devils , or fallen angels . for it 's certain , man is a very sinful creature as well as the fallen angels ; and if he must be irreligious too , ( as he must be so , if god require it not of him ) then god hath made him only a fit companion for the devils , of whom it is certain god requires no duties of religion . we see then , the chief , and indeed the only thing that is truly valuable in fallen man , above all creatures here below , and above the fallen angels , is this , that he is capable of the mercy and knowledg of god , and by the mercy of god made capable to serve god , in such a religious walking with god , and a dependance upon him as therein to please god , and to find acceptance with him . s. i desire to know what religion this is which god requires of all men ? f. the prophet micah tells us , it is to do justly , to love mercy , and to walk humbly with god. st. peter says , it is to fear god and work righteousness , acts 10. 34 , 35. st. paul tells us , it is to glorify god , according to the knowledg or manifestation which men have of god , rom. 2. whether this be taken from the works of his hands , psalm . 19. 1 , 2. rom. 1. 20. or from his more common or amazing providences , exod. 18. 11. john 1. 15 , 16. or from the work of god's righteous law written in mens hearts , rom. 2. 1● 11 , 12. there shall be glory , honour , and peace , to every man that worketh good , to the jew first , and also to the gentile , for there is no respect of persons with god. for as many as have sinned without law , shall perish without law ; and as many as have sinned in the law , shall be judged by the law. and by a parity of reason , they that have sinned in the gospel , shall be judged by the gospel ; see jer. 9. 23 , 24. s. it is true indeed , this is the sum or main body of true religion , but this is mentioned in the scripture ; how do's it appear that the nations know any thing of it who have not the scripture ? f. it appears from the very places which i have quoted , because the prophets and apostles here , do not speak of religion as then newly instituted , but as that which had been of long continuance , even in every nation . and the scripture further shews , that the way of god had been made known to all flesh in the old world , gen. 6. 11 , 12. else they could not have corrupted it . this way of god was again renewed to noah , gen. 9. 8 , 9 , 12. for an everlasting religion to the whole world. all are bound to take notice of , and to depend upon the lord as a gracious god , and to do justly , love mercy , and walk humbly with their god. s. but can man please god , under any of these manifestations of himself , without an assistant ? f. no , he cannot , therefore god provided an assistant , the lamb slain from the foundation of the world , to take away the sin of the world , john 1. 29. rev. 13. 8. whom he placed as a mediator between himself and man , 1 tim. 2. 3 , 4 , 5 , 6. s. but how shall any man have benefit by this lamb of god , or this mediator , who have not the means to know him by his name , nor his offices ? f. 1. many who never had the means to know the mediator particularly and distinctly , must yet have salvation by him , or else none of the infant-race , dying such , could be saved . 2. all that know the lord to be such a god as do's exercise loving-kindness , judgment , and righteousness in the earth , do know this mediator virtually , and believing on the lord as such , do know him savingly , jer. 9. 24. psal . 86. 5. 3. all the common providences of god are given chiefly for this end , to direct men to seek the lord ; because it appears from st. paul , they have a capacity to feel after him , and to find him . for he is not far from every one of them , because in him they live , move , and have their being . 4. and as to their ignorance in things , which they had not particular and distinct means to know ; 't is expresly said , the lord winked at it ; that is , he graciously passed by their weakness , and would not exact the utmost farthing , acts 17. 26 , 27 , 30. see and consider job 37. 23 , 24. 5. but when men grow presumptuous and unthankful , and give the honour of the incorruptible god to created things , or things of their own devising , they thus unmanning themselves , and forgetting that they are the off-spring of god , then , and not till then , do's god withdraw his love from them , and suffers them to be filled with their own ways , as is most clear , rom. 1 , 2 chapters , and also dan. 5. 22 , 23 , 24. s. i see it is not good for us to pride up our selves against the nations , which have not the gospel as we have . but it seems to be an argument that god loves us more than he loves them , because he gives us greater means of grace than he gives them . f. 1. behold , god is mighty , and despiseth not any . let this truth take place in thy heart , job 36. 5. and then admit the love of god to be much more to some than to all , yet it 's sufficient to all . 2. yet i must inform thee , that when we consider mankind as they are all the off-spring of god , and as he has appointed the bounds of their habitations , that you should seek the lord. then like as we may not conclude , that a good father do's therefore not love his youngest son , so well as he loves his eldest son , because he gives him but half so much of his estate , as he gives the eldest son. so neither may we conlude that god loves england , france , or italy , better then he loves america , because we have greater means of gospel-light than they . he that improves one talent well , shall be accepted as well as he that improves five . s. i am well satisfied in this enquiry , i see that god expects the duties of religion of all men , according to what light and knowledg he hath given them , in all ages and nations , and that through the mercy and justice of god , whoever worships god , and doth his will , according to the manifestation which he has given men of his will , shall be accepted of god. i pray now inform me concerning the true way of god's worship , or the true christian religion according to the gospel ; lest whilst we seem concern'd for others , we be found to neglect our own salvation . and , first , i defire to be instructed , whether the holy spirit , or the holy scripture , or the holy church , must be our guide in these soul-concernments ? f. there is no doubt but these three agree in one testimony : for the scriptures are the testimony of the other two : being indeed the inspirations of the holy spirit , and the prophets or ministers of the church of god , receive those inspirations , and gave them forth in writings , which writings are the holy scriptures . s. is this church always to be receiving and giving forth inspirations of this kind ? f. no , in no wise , for so every age might produce a new bible . wherefore that our rules might not be too burthensom , it pleased god , that but few of the things which jesus himself did , should be written , and that we believing according to the scripture might have life , john 20. 31. 2 pet. 3. 2. that ye may be mindfull of the words which were spoken before by the prophets , and of the commandment of us the apostles of the lord and saviour . if any come unto you and bring not this doctrine , receive him not into your house . 2 john v. 10. s. seeing some pretend to the infallible conduct of the holy spirit in whatsoever they decree in council ; and others think they preach by infallible inspiration . i desire to known how we may best make tryal of these spirits , to know the spirit of truth from the spirit of error ? f. we may know the spirit of truth by these rules . 1. the holy scriptures being long since confirmed , all true ministers of christ , who are led by the spirit of christ , will always magnify the authority of the scripture above what themselves deliver as personal ministers , though it be never so true . for so did christ himself magnify the holy scriptures , john 5. 45 , 46 , 47. and so did st. peter , 2 pet. 1. 16 , to the end . s. is it clear , that by the more sure word of prophesy , is meant the writings of the prophets ? f. yes , it is very clear by the very reading of the place , 2 pet. 1. 16 , 17 , 18 , 19 , 20 , 21. s. what is this dark place which this word of prophesy is said to shine in ? f. it may be well meant of the jewish church , which understood not the voice of their own prophets , which are read in their synagogues every sabbath day : or , it may be true of us , by how much we are slow of heart to understand and believe all that the prophets have spoken , luk. 24. 25. s. what is the day-star which is to arise in our hearts ? f. by a diligent attending upon the testimony of the prophets , god gives light to those that sincerely seek for it : ye shall know , if ye follow on to know , hosea 8. 3. and god gives his spirit to help our infirmity . s. i am satisfied in this exposition of the place . i pray proceed to further rules by which the true spirit may be known . f. 2. the spirit which is of god , does not speak of it self , john 16. 13. so as to contradict what christ hath said , but he takes of christ's words , and shews them to his people . it delivers no new ordinances , nor nulls , nor changes christ's old ones ; but magnifies christ as the law-giver , that was to teach us all things , john 4. 25. 3. the apostles by this spirit have left us the whole council of god , act 20. 20 , 27. and by that doctrine they knew that to be the spirit of god which led to it , and that to be the spirit of error which dissented from it , 1 john. 4. 6. s. i see there is no safety in adhering to my self , or any other , under pretence of having the infallible conduct , or inspiration of the spirit . i shall beg the influence of the spirit of grace to quicken my judgment and affection in the search of the holy scriptures , the most infallible records of god and his church . but yet i desire a little help , how i may best satisfy my self , or others , that the holy scriptures are the undoubted oracles of god ? f. to satisfy thy soul in this enquiry , thou hast god's own testimony , who every-where speaks to thee in them , by doctrine , and by miracles . if any deny the truth of those records , they only deprive themselves of the authority of all records that are extant in the world of former ages : for the truth of the divine scripture has the highest testimony of all other ; and if these fall , all must fall with them . 2. thou hast the testimony of all the prophets , and of the apostles , and above all , the testimony of christ and his angels , that the old testament is the scriptures of truth . 3. lay aside the new testament , and then no man can preach any thing of the gospel , respecting the birth , life , doctrine , miracles , death , resurrection , assension , or second coming of christ . 4. we have the testimony of the first churches , that these books are the undoubted oracles of god ; and if their testimony be not of credit , the testimony of the present church will signifie nothing . 5. these scriptures must either be of god , or of the devil . but who dare say they are of satan ? they are the most destructive of his kingdom , and designs , of any books whatsoever . s. these considerations must needs be satisfactory to all that pretend to be of the christian faith. i desire therefore to be instructed in the true christian religion , especially in such parts of it as are necessary to our walking with god in a church-way , that i may have fellowship with god and his people , in the orderly profession of the christian religion . f. in the name of god , then let us begin there , where our lord christ began to preach , and let us follow him whom our heavenly father hath given to be a witness to the people , for a leader , and for a commander to the people , isa . 50. 4. of the first principle of st. paul's catechism : or , repentance from dead works . son. i desire to know , what were the first things preached by christ and his apostles , and to be learned by their followers ? father . the first things which christ preached were repentance , and faith , as it is written , matth. 4. 17. mark 1. 14. whose heavenly doctrine is more fully set down , and gathered into six principles by st. paul. heb. 6. 1 , 2. and thus declared . repentance from dead works , and of faith towards god ; of the doctrine of baptisms , and of laying on of hands : and of the resurrection of the dead , and of eternal judgment . s. seeing these are the foundation-principles , how must i understand the apostle when he saith , learning the principles ? f. they are words respecting the order of discourse , and bear this sence ; that st. paul would leave at that time to speak further of these principles ; and go on to more perfect or higher mysteries , and so he ●roceeds to discourse of the excellency of christ's priesthood above the aaronical priesthood , chap. 7 , &c. s. i confess , if we should otherwise leave these principles , we should leave god himself , for without faith and humiliation we cannot please god. but does not faith go before repentance ? f. we must distinguish of faith. there is the faith of mankind , who generally do believe there is a god , that will punish the wicked , and reward the just . this faith must go before repentance , heb. 11. 6. but the faith here spoken of , is the faith of actual justification ; and this faith must needs follow repentance , rom. 3. 25. and 5. 1. thus god is the justifier of him that believeth in jesus . impenitent sinners are so far from justification , that christ tells them , except they repent , they shall all perish , luke 13. 2 , 3 , 4 , 5. s. i thank you for this distinction ; i see the necessity of repentance . pray shew me the true nature of repentance , and how i may obtain repentance unto life ; and whether it be the gift of god ? f. that repentance unto life is the gift god , is very clear , acts 5. 31. & 11. 18. it is a special mercy flowing from the goodness of god to all sinners , rom. 2. 3. for he might in justice have denied the riches of his grace to the rebellious , which yet he hath not , psalm 68. 18. acts 17. 30. thus god gives repentance , both graciously and preceptively . s. but does not god also give power , with his gracious precept , to repent ? f. that god gives repentance potentially , is true ; jer. 31. 18 , 19. turn thou me , and i shall be turned : surely when i was turned , i repented . yet this power is not irresistible , but it is sufficient , either to effect repentance , or to leave the sinner without excuse , ezek. 24. 13. rom. 1. 32. compared with rom. 2. 1. christ was sent to turn every one of the jews from their iniquities ; and there was a sufficiency of power in the means which he used to do it . but yet they resisted the holy ghost , and the holy jesus , and were destroyed in their iniquities , acts 3. 26. & 7. 51. see mat. 12. 41. s. i see plainly we may not look for in irresistibl● power to convert us to god. f. the gospel , as it is the ministration of the spirit , is to us the power of god to salvation , as well as it was to the jews , rom. 1. 16 , 17. s. i desire to know what are the parts of repentance unto life ? f. the parts of repentance unto life were principally three . 1. a thorow or due sense of sin , in the sinful nature of it . 2. a godly sorrow for our sins ; chiefly , because we have committed them against the will and commandment of that gracious god , by whose mercy and goodness we live and enjoy all good things . 3. it consists in a holy resolution and endeavour to forsake all sinful ways . s. pray explain the first part of repentance , by shewing me what sin is , that i may have a due sense of it ? f. the scripture tells us , that st. paul had not known sin but by the law , rom. 7. 7. and that by the law is the knowledg of sin , rom. 3. 20. and that sin is the transgression of the law , john 3. 4. and where no law is , there is no transgression . and that the substance and work of this law is so far revealed to all the world , that all the world is under it ; and that by the breach of god's law , every mouth shall be stopped , and all the world be found guilty before god , rom. 3. 19 , 20 , 23. s. i confess , if all the world be not under some law of god , they could not be guilty of sin against god. but my desire is , to know what law we are under , who have the holy scriptures amongst us ? f. we are under the law of god , as it is given to mankind universally , ( being of the gentile race ) that is , the principles of right reason , and the instructions of the book of creation , psal . 19. 1 , 2 , 3. rom. 1. 2. whereunto it has pleased god to add this great blessing , that we have the divine law , as contained in the holy scriptures , by which more excellent things are made known ; which are also explain'd and confirm'd to us by jesus christ in the new testament , whom we are commanded to hear in all things . and thus we are under the teachings of the law , both natural & divine . s. where shall we find the substance of the law , natural and divine , recommended and explained to us ? f. in the ten commandments , exod. 20. which are explained in our saviour's sermons on the mount , &c. mat. chap. 5 , 6 , 7. and comprised by him in the two great evangelical precepts ; that is , to love god above all ; and our neighbours as our selves , mat. 22. 37 , 38 , 39 , 40. upon these two commands hang all the law and the prophets . s. how may a man know that he is guilty of the breach of these laws ? f. 1. by considering the quality of that love which we owe to god , and to our neighbour , respectively : for our love to god must be of the superlative or highest degree ; less than this he will not accept . 2. our love to our neighbour must be of the possitive degree , even as we love our selves ; and by how much we come short in these , by so much we sin and come short of the glory of god , or of glorifying him as god. s. what are the true demonstrations of love to god ? f. 1. when god is chiefly and most delightfully in our thoughts of all things whatsoever , psal . 43. 4. psal . 25. 2. when his word , and chiefly his commands , are not grievous but delightful to us , 1 john 2. 3 , 4 , 5. 3. when sin is the object of our hatred , because it is contrary to the nature and will of god , psal . 37. 10. jude 23. rev. 2. 6. 4. when we hunger and thirst for the gracious , and for the glorious enjoyment of god , psal . 42. 1 , 2. john 14. 8. s. what are the true demonstrations of love to my neighbour ? f. they are many , some are continual , and some are occasional ; and they flow from this spring . a hearty desire of their good , or constant prayer to god for them ; for this keeps our heart open in love towards them , not only to avoid all things that may do them harm , but also to pity and help them in their necessities , as we are able , both in things temporal and spiritual . this is that charity , without which the highest pretences to religion are nothing . s. by these brief rules , i perceive how greatly sin has prevailed against men generally , and against my self in particular , whilst we have followed the desires of the flesh , and of the mind , neglecting both god and our neighbour . what manner of repentance is that which you call the second part ? f. it is a godly sorrow , or sorrowing for sin after a godly sort , 2 cor. 7. 9. and arises in the heart from this consideration ; that whilst a gracious god hath been following us with mercies , from day to day , we have consum'd these days and mercies in ignorance of god , and in sinful courses in the sight of god , and against heaven , luk. 15. 18. and the truly penitent , do often meet with david's experience , psal . 51. 4. & 77. 2 , 3 , 4. against thee , thee only have i sinned , and done this evil in thy sight . in the day of my trouble i sought the lord : my sore ran in the night , and ceased not : my soul refused to be comforted . i thought upon god , and was troubled : i complained , and my spirit was overwhelmed . i am so troubled i cannot speak . and in this conflict , the sinner will remember his sinful original , psal . 51. 5. s. is original sin cause of humiliation ? f. yes undoubtedly ; for all flesh was , and is defiled by it , ( christ only excepted , heb. 4. 15. ) and should have perished under it , had not christ , the lamb of god , been in god's decree slain from the foundation of the world , to take away this sin of the world in the condemning power of it , john 1. 29. rom. 5. 18. s. i would gladly know how to attain this godly sorrow , which worketh repentance unto salvation . f. 1. consider , in order thereunto , that the holy god hates those who presumptuously go on in their trespasses , psal . 7. 11 , 12 , 13. & 68. 21. 2. but if any say i have sinned , and perverted that which was right , and it profited me not ; he shall deliver his soul from going to the pit , job 33. 27 , 28. 3. think often of the judgments of god against obdurate sinners , and of his mercy in sparing thee so long . and let his goodness and forbearance lead thee to repentance , rom. 2. 4. 4. pray much to almighty god to be thy help herein ; jer. 31. 18. turn thou me , and i shall be turned , for thou art the lord my god. s. may these directions be blessed to me , i shall then have my desire . but what mean you by the third part of repentance ? f. i mean , 1. a holy loathing and abhorring all sin , because it is of the devil , 1 john 3. 8. and because god hates it , and because christ died for it , or because of it . 2. abstain from the act of sin , in desire , word , and deed , as much as possible ; jonah 3. 10. god saw their works , that they turned from their evil ways . break off thy sins by righteousness , dan. 4. 27. repent you therefore and be converted , acts 3. 19. this is to bring forth fruit meet for repentance . s. hath man any liberty of will , and any measure of power , thus to hate and forsake sin ? f. 1. by the bounty of god , man hath some liberty and power this way , he is not chained to his sin of necessity ; josh . 24. 19. chuse you this day whom you will serve . to day if you will hear his voice , harden not your hearts , heb. 3. 7 , 8. mary hath chosen the good part , uk . 10. 42. 2. yet man's infirmity in the exercise of this liberty and power is so great , that he is not to depend upon this liberty and power , but upon the strength of god , in the use of them , hos . 14. 2. 2 cor. 3. 5. s. i confess my self , and all men indispensably bound to repent , and turn to god. but i desire to know whether this repentance will justify the sinner , or how far it is available hereunto ? f. though a sinner humble himself , and repent in dust and ashes , as truly as job did , job 42. 6. yet is he not thereby justified , but only prepared to justification ; for remission of sin follows repentance , luke 24. 47. and is made ours , freely by the grace of god , through the redemption which is in christ jesus . for without shedding of blood there is no remission , heb. 9. 22. & 10. 18. rom. 5. 9. we must therefore in no wise place our justification in our repentance , for that were to place our justification from the guilt and condemning power of sin , in our duty , and not in christ jesus , which god forbid . s. i desire you therefore to shew me this great mystery of the gospel , which guides poor sinners to the true cause of justification , from the guilt and condemning nature of sin. f. that i will endeavour to do in our con●ideration of the second principle of christ's doctrine , to wit , of faith towards god , or towards our lord jesu● christ , heb. 6. 1. acts 20. 21. the second principle of st. paul's catechism : or , of faith towards god. son. i de●ire first to have a true definition of faith ; that is , i desire to know what faith is ? father . st. paul defines faith thus , heb. 11. 1. now faith is the substance of things hoped for , the evidence of things not seen . it is also truly defined , of a firm belief of the truth of god as made known in the scriptures ; and particula●ly concerning his son jesus christ our lord , john 20. 31. 1 john 5. 10 , 11. s. i perceive that the main design of the holy scriptures , is to direct us to jesus christ ; i do therefore desire to know what record god hath given of his son ? f. this is the record which god hath given of his son ; that god hath given to us eternal life , and that this life is in his son. 1 john 5. 11. with john 1. 4. and 6. 51. s. was the son of god ordained to procure the light of saving life to the whole world ? f. yes , god so loved the world , that he gave his only begotten son , that whosoever believeth on him should not perish , but have everlasting life . and the reason why many shall not see eternal life , is , because they believe not on the name of the only begotten son of god , john 3. 16 , 17 , 18. s. but how can they be saved by christ who never heard of him ? f. christ is the lamb of god , slain in the design of god , to take away the sin of the world , john 1. 29. in whom god hath offered such means of light as to him seemed convenient , act. 17. 26 , 27. that all might seek him , and be reconciled to him , 2 cor. 5. 14 , 18 , 19. and according to the due use , or wilful abuse of his mercy so offered , you shall all be acquitted , or condemned , in the day when god shall judg the secrets of men according to the gospel , rom. 2. 14 , 15 , 16. now the gospel shews that god is not an hard master , he only expects improvement of what he gives , he will not reap where he hath not sown , 2 cor. 8. 12. dying infants never heard of christ , yet they shall be saved , mat. 19. 14. s. by this i perceive all men are under the mercy of god , as well as under his justice : and that none shall therefore perish for want of mercy , but because they turn the grace of god into wantonness . shew me therefore what we , who have the holy scriptures , are bound to believe concerning god and jesus christ whom he hath sent. f. we are firmly to believe that god is , heb. 11. 6. and that there 's no other god but one , mark 12. 32 , 34. this one god is made known to us by three denominations especially ; the father , the son , and the holy ghost . mat. 28. 19. 1 john 5. 7. 1 tim. 3. 16. john 1. 14. and that thou mayest know how this great mystery was understood by the ancient church , about 1400 years ago , i will here shew thee their confession of faith , published by a very great council of the christians in those daies , wherein were 318 pastors of the church , who thus profess their faith. the nicene creed i believe in one god the almighty father , maker of heaven and earth , and of all things visible and invisible . and in one lord jesus christ , the only begotten son of god , begotten of the father before all worlds . god of god , light of light , very god of very god , begotten , not made , of one substance with the father , by whom all things were made . who for us men , and for our salvation descended from the heavens , and was incarnate of the virgin mary , and became man. crucified also for us under pontius pilate . suffered and was buried ; and rose again the third day according to the scriptures , and ascended into heaven , and sits at the right hand of god. and is to come again with glory to judg the living and the dead , and of whose kingdom there shall be no end . and in the holy spirit the quickening lord , who proceeds from the father and the son , and in like manner is adored and g●●rifyed with the fathe● and the son , and who spake by the prophets . and i believe one holy catholick and apostolical church . i confess one baptism f●r remission of sins . and i look for the resurr●ction of the dead . and the life in the world to come . s. i much reverence this ancient confession of faith , for it 's excellent brevity , and especially for the solidity of the matter . but i desire you to shew me what scripture-evidence we have for some things contained in the second article , where it says , the son of god was begotten before all worlds . f. in heb. 1. 5. the son of god is called the first-begotten : and vers . 2. 't is said , the worlds ( that is , all worlds ) were made by him ; and vers . 10. thou lord in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth , and the heavens are the works of thy hands , john 1. 1 , 2 , 3. is full evidence of the same thing . and colos . 1. 17. he is before all things , and by him all things consist . s. but how is it said , the son is god of god , light of light ? &c. f. 1. the same testimonies which prove he was god , and that he was before all things , proves that he was god of god : because there was but one god , nor as yet any other essence but god. the son w●s therefore begotten , not made , because all things were made by him which was made ; and sure he that made all things was not made himself . 2. in 1 john. 5. 20. the son is expresly called , very god ; and seeing there is but one god , he must needs be very god of very god. 3. and for the same reason he is light of light ; for god is that light in whom is no darkness , 1 ●ohn 1. ● ▪ and so is christ , john 1. 5 , 7 , 8 , 9. see also rev. 21. 2● ▪ heb. 1. 3. s. it seems the great council did not want scri●ture-evidence to confirm this great article o●●he pr●existence of the son of god. i pray explain the thi●d article , where the son of god is said to be incarnate of of the virgin mary by the holy ●●ost , and became man. f. it pleased the father almighty , that his son , who being in the form of god , and thought it not robbery to be equal with god , should take upon him the form of a servant , and be found in the habit of man , col. 2. 6 , 7. and in this state , he that was above all angels , heb. 1. 5. was now made a little lower than the angels , for the suffering of death , heb. 2. 9. for he took not on him the nature of angels , but he took on him the seed of abraham , heb. 2. 16. and in this respect , both he that sanctifieth , and they that are sanctified , are all of one , [ that is , one flesh ] for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren . and as children are partakers of flesh and blood , he also himself likewise took part of the same , that by means of death he might destroy him that had the power of death , that is , the devil , heb. 2. s. this a great mystery indeed ; i desire to know how and when this was fulfilled or accomplished ? f. the lord christ was born of the virgin mary , in the time of augustus caesar , about the year of the world 3962. and his birth was thus effected by the most high god. his power overshadowed the virgin , and by the holy ghost coming upon her , she conceived , and was with child , luk. 1. 35. mat. 1. 18. and at bethlehem she brought forth her son , and ( as the angel had commanded ) called his name jesus , which signifies a saviour , the same is called christ , mat. 1. 21. luk. 2. 7. as it was foretold by the prophets , isa . 7. 14. mich. 5. 2. s. do's any testimony appear in humane histories , respecting the time of the birth and death of our lord christ ? f. our faith must only rest upon the authority of the scriptures ; in these things nevertheless there is som● things remarkable found in the histories of those times . learn ( saith a learned writer ) the time according to the prophecy of daniel , when christ should co●e , is now exactly fulfilled . 〈◊〉 from the 2d year of darius longamanus , when the ki●●s commandment went forth , to bring the people to b●ild jerusalem , ezra . 4. 24. hag. 1. 1. to the beginning of alexander's monarchy , were 144 years , according to the account of metasthenus the persian . from thence to the incarnation of christ was 309 years by the judgment of josephus : and from christ's incarnation to his baptism , was about 30 years , luke 2. 23. then count the prophecy of daniel 9. 25. after 70 weeks ( a week containing 7 years ) that is 483 years , then shall the messiah be cut off , viz. two years and an half after his baptism . s. i understand that christ is the true messiah , of whom moses and the prophets did write , john 1. 41 , 45. deut. 18. 18. isa . 7. 14. i desire therefore to know what i a● farther to believe concerning him , that i may be saved f. thou must with the heart believe unto righteousness , and with the mouth make confession unto salvation , rom. 10. 10. s. what do you mean by believing unto righteousness ? f. there is a two-fold righteousness , which true faith will lead thee unto . the one is imputative ; the other is practical . the first is called the righteousness of god , mat. 6. 33. or god's righteousness , rom. 10. 3. this righteousness is revealed by the gospel , rom. 1. 17 , 18. it is a righteousness to us without the law ; and yet witnessed by the law and the prophets , rom. 3. 21 ▪ it is the righteousness of christ , who is the lord our righteousness , isa . 45. 24 , 25. christ made of god un●● us righteousness , 1 cor. 1. 30. s. i desire to understand this more plainly . f. 1. god having made a righteous law , it must be fulfilled ; and none was able to do ●his but christ , and he did fulfil it in our behalf heb. 10. 5 , 6 , 7 , 8 , 9 , 10. psal . 4. 5 , 6 , 7. and thus the rig●teousness of the law is fulfilled in the children of god , because christ's righteousness is made theirs through believing , rom. 10 ▪ 3 , 4. phil. 3. 9. and they are made the righteousness of god in him , 2 cor. 5. 21. that is , a righteous people to god. 2. the justice of god cried against us for sin committed ; and sin must be purged by the blood of christ ; he bare our sins , that is , the punishment of our sins , in his own body on the tree , 1 pet. 2. 24. and thus we are justified by his death , and saved by his life , rom. 5. 9 , 10. he died for our sins , and rose again for our justification , rom. 4. 25. s. where do's god say , that righteousness is a thing imputed to man ? f. rom. 4. 6. david describeth the blessedness of the man unto whom god imputeth righteousness without works , saith the apostle . abraham being fully perswaded , that what god had promised , he was able to perform . it was imputed to him for righteousness . now it was not written for his sake alone , that it was imputed unto him . but for us also , to whom it shall be imputed , if we believe on him that raised up jesus christ from the dead , rom. 4. 21 , 22 , 23 , 24. s. and is this wonderful grace held forth to all men in christ ? f. yes , the righteousness of god without the law is manifested , or published , being witnessed by the law and the prophets , even the righteousness of god , which is by faith of jesus christ vnto all , and upon all that believe : for there is n● difference . for all have sinned , and come short of the ●lory of god : being justified freely by his grace , through the ●edemption that is in christ jesus ; whom god hath set forth 〈◊〉 be a propitiation [ for our sins ; and not for ours only , bu● also for the sins of the whole world , 1 john 2. 2. ] throug● faith in his blood ; to declare his righteousness for the re●ission of sins that are past , through the forbearance of god. to declare , i say , at this time his righteousness , that ●e might be just , and the justifier of him that believeth in je●us , rom. 3. 21 , to 27. s. it appears plainly , that the righteousness of christ , in and by christ , is free for all ; but yet it is received by faith. but does god require all men to be●●eve this ? f. yes , christ with all his benefits was tendred to ●he jews ; but they being ignorant of god's righteousness , ●nd going about to establish their own righteousness , have not ●●bmitted themselves to the righteousness of god , rom. 10. 1 , 2 , ● . so they would not come to christ that they might ●ave life , john 5. 40. 2. all are commanded to believe the gospel , ( which ●eveals this righteousness of god as the main of it ) under pain of damnation , mark 16. 15 , 16. all me● are therefore to believe that god has mercy , and grac● and glory in store for them all , 1 tim. 2. 4 , 5 , 6. s. i desire you to give me the sum of the gospel 〈◊〉 few words . f. this gospel is briefly comprehended in this sa●ing ; christ died for our sins , and rose again for 〈◊〉 justification , 1 cor. 15. 3 , 4. which is further e●plained ; 2 cor. 5. 18 , 19 , 20 , 21. and the great hol●ness which it teacheth , is set down , with the glory co●sequent to it , tit. 2. 11 , 12 , 13 , 14 , 15. 1 pet. 1. 4 , ● ▪ s. did christ our lord die and rise again for all me● without exception ? f. yes , he did ; for , for this cause christ both die● , ro●● and revived , that he might be lord both of the dead a●d l●ving , rom. 14. 9. he gave himself a ransom for all , ● ti● 2. 6. he tasted death for every man , heb. 2. ●9 . 〈◊〉 bought them that deny him , and bring upon themselv●● 〈◊〉 destruction , 2 pet. 2. 1. s. these things cannot be spoken against . but 〈◊〉 christ die as he was god , or as he was man only ▪ f. not as god ; for if god should die , nothi●● could live . man cannot kill the soul of man , muc● less the divine nature of christ ; our saviour was 〈◊〉 to death in the flesh , 1 pet. 3. 18. he died through wea●ness , 2 cor. 13. 4. he was made lower than the angel that he might suffer death , heb. 2. 9. it was sufficient that an holy man , perfectly jus● without sin , should die for the unjust , that he mig●● bring us to god. s. to strengthen my faith , i desire to know som● clear grounds or evidence that the holy spirit is god. f. 1. because he is called the eternal spirit , heb. ● 14. and is present in every place , psal . 39. 7. he is e●presly called god , act. 5. 3 , 4 , 9. 2. we are baptised into his name , mat. 28. but we are not to be baptised into the name of a created spirit . 3. the work of creation is ascribed to him , and he hath his procedure from the father and the son , and is one with them , gen. 1. 1 , 2 , 3. psal . 104. 30. john 15. 26. s. i am well satisfied , that the righteousness of faith is a grea● 〈◊〉 : i desire to learn the righteousness of practice● ▪ f. practical righteousness is a holy walking with god in obedience to all his commands , to the best of our k●owledg and ability , 1 john 2. 4 , 5 , 6. for the gosp●● of the grace of god teacheth us to deny all vngodlyne●● and worldly lusts , and to live soberly , righteously , and g●dly on this present life , tit. 2. 11 , 12. christians are ●●rictly obliged to observe all things whatsoever christ comm●●ded , ma● . 28. 19. for they are god's workmanship , 〈◊〉 in christ jesus unto good works , which god hath 〈◊〉 ordained , that they should walk in them , ephes . 2. 10 ▪ christians are bo●●d to hear christ their great prophet ●n whatsoever 〈◊〉 shall say . nor are they his true friends , unless the● do ( to their best ) whatsoever he commands them , act. 3. 22. john 15. 14. s. will not faith save us without works ? f. altho we are not saved by works , yet we are not saved without works . for what doth it profit , if a man say , he hath faith , and have not works , can faith save him ? jam. 2. 14. as the body without the spirit is dead , so faith without works is dead also . s. what shall i do that i may work the work of god ? f. 1. this is the work of god , that you believe on him whom he hath sent , john 6. 29. this faith must be put into act , else it is not the work of faith with power , 2 thes . 1. 9. gal. 5. 6. jam. 2. 22 , 24. 2. true faith overcometh the world , to wit , 〈◊〉 lusts of the flesh , the lust of the eyes , and the prid● of life . for this is the victory which overcometh the world , even our faith , 1 john. 5. 4 , 5. and 2. 15 , 16. this faith purifieth the heart in obeying the truth through the spirit , and leads to every good work , act. 15. 9. 1 pet. 1. 22. philip. 2. 12 , 13. colos ▪ 〈◊〉 10. s. is this faith in the act , the gift of god , or the work of man ? f. with the heart man believeth , and it is man that worketh good , rom. 10. 10. rom. 2. 10. but the preparation of the heart in man to these things is of the lord , prov. 16. 1. 1 cor. 4. 7. 2 cor. 3. 5. isa . 10. 23. s. does god work this preparation in man's heart irresistibly ? f. in some special case it may be so , gen. 20. 6. but god ordinarily works upon the heart , or understandings of men , by his works , 〈◊〉 ▪ 4. 13. isa . ●0 . 26. and by his word , rom. 1. 16 , 17 , 18 ▪ and by the motions of his spirit , ministerially and graciously , 1 thes . 1. 5. against which men may ●nd often do , make resistance to their own destruction , psal . 88. 8. this whole psalm shews much of this to be too common , and so does act. 7. 51. s. i desire a short view of this excellent grace of faith. f. 1. it is an hearty and universal credence of the truth of god , as revealed or made known to man in the scriptures , or otherwise . luk. 24. 25. deut. 1. 32. rom. 1. 19 , 20 , 21 , 22. 2. a cleaving to god and his truth , as made known to us , in sincere love , psalm 119. 31. 1 thes . 1. 5 , 6. 2 thes . 1. 10. 3. a shewing the fruit of faith , by a ready obeying the truth , and suffering for it , when called thereunto , james . 2. 28. 1 pet. 3. 14 , 15. 4. an holy dependance upon god for the fulfilling all his promises , for his grace and help in this world , and for glory in the world to come , 1 pet. 1. 3. heb. 10. 35 , to the end , rom. 2. 7 , 10 , 11. s. i can say , in some measure , i believe , and pray , that god may help against my unbelief . what i pray , is the next principle which belongs to a beginning christian . f. the next principle is , the doctrine of baptisms . of which we shall treat briefly . of the third principle of st. paul's catechism : or , the doct●ine of baptisms . son. why is the word baptisms used in this place ? are there more baptisms than one pertaining to christians ? father . yes , there are three distinct baptisms pertaining to the christian man. the first is the baptism of repentance for remission of sins ; this was of divine original , it came from heaven , and was first administred by that great prophet and messenger of christ , john the baptist , mat. 21. 25. the second , is the pouring out of the spirit of promise ; and in the ordinary way of its reception , follows the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins . act. 1. 5. & 2. 38. & 19. 5 , 6. ephes . 1. 13. the third is the afflictions which attend christians for the gospel's-sake , luk. 12. 50. mat. 20. 22. s. how is it said there is but one baptism , seeing it's evident there are three ? f. that is a gross mistake . it is not said , ephes . 4. 5. there is but one baptism , 't is said , there is one ; and yet paul speaks of two of these baptisms in that very place , as vers . 4. there is one body and one spirit , as ye are called in one hope of your calling . and the ephesians had received both the baptism of repentance , for remission of sins , in the name of the lord jesus ; and also the baptism of the spirit , afterward , as is undeniable , act. 19. 5 , 6. so that paul should have spoken false if he had said there is but one baptism , and also must have contradicted himself in his epistle to the hebrews , where he speaks of baptisms in the plural number . s. i confess , the mistake of the quakers , and some others , is hereby discovered ; i see indeed a threefold baptism , i would learn them in every part : and there fore i desire to know what god requires of all that are to be baptised into christ ●ccording to his command . f. god requires the substance of the two foregoing principles , of all that are to be baptised with the baptism of repentance , for the remission of sins . repent , and be baptised every one of you , act. 2. 38. they that gladly received the word , were baptised , act. 2. 41. when they believed , &c. they were baptised , both men and women , act. 8. 12. in true baptism , we are dead with christ , buried with christ , and risen with christ , rom. 6. 1 , to 7. colos . 2. 11 , 12 , 13. we are all the sons of god by faith in christ jesus ; for as many as have been baptised into christ , have put on christ , gal. 3. 26 , 27. s. did our lord christ himself establish this practical baptism ? f. yes , he established it divers ways ; first , in that he would not enter upon his ministry till he was 〈…〉 john in jordan mat. 15. 16. & 4. 17. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 managed the doctrine and practice of this baptism , more than john the baptist did , john 3. 22 , 26. & 4. 1 , 2. jesus made and baptised more disciples than john. s. how then is it said that jesus baptised not , but his disciples ? f. jesus made the people disciples by teaching them . to baptize them , was more convenient for his disciples or apostles , because they were to be baptised in his name ; kings do not execute their laws , because they are done in their name , 't is more fit to be done by their ministers . s. it is plain , that christ did propagate this holy ordinance in his personal ministry . did he establish it after his death also ? f. yes , in his perpetual commission he does particularly establish it , to continue as long as the gospel it self , mark 16. 15 , 16. mat. 28. 19 , 20. s. this is very clear ; but suppose a man have received the baptism of the spirit , may not he be excus'd as to this ordinance of baptism ? f. no sure ; the better god is to us , the more ready we should be to follow christ , who saith , thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness . sure no man can suppose he is more holy than christ . but to put the matter out of doubt , christ commands those that have received the holy ghost , to be baptised with water in his name , act. 10. 47 , 48. s. i perceive no man may with safety neglect this ordinance ; i therefore desire to know what is the profit which attends the sincere obedience to god in this ordinance ? f. the same profit which thou mayest expect in thy sincere obedience to god in any other ordinance : that is , pardon of sin , and eternal life , is made sure ●o thee in god's way , ( if thou art faithful in what thou dost , as god requires thy faith and obedience ) ; for thus saith the lord , he that believeth , and is baptised , shall be saved , mark 16. 16. arise , why tarriest thou , and be baptised , and wash away thy sins , calling on the name of the lord jesus , act. 22. 16. the like figure whereunto even baptism doth now save us , not the putting away the filth of the flesh , but the answer of a good consicience towards god , by the resurrection of christ from the dead . s. these are very high expressions ; are we not saved by christ only ? f. doubtless christ only is ordained of god to be the saviour of the world , 1 tim. 4. 10. and especially of his body the church . and you are to know , that it 's christ who is held forth in baptism , which saveth ; even as it 's said , we are saved by preaching , that is , by christ held forth in preaching . s. may not a man have his place and priviledg in the church of christ without ●aptism ? f. no , that cannot be ●or if one man , then more may take the place , and assume the priviledges of members of the church without baptism , and then there may be a true church constituted without baptism . s. may not a company of believers form themselves into a church of christ , without baptism in water , upon profession of repentance and fa●th only ? f. no true church can be formed by man's device . there must be the rule of god's word to direct us , or nothing is done well in the forming a church . christ hath given express order to form his church by repentance , faith , and baptism , as we have shewed . if he has also given order to form churches without baptism , th●n he must needs be the author of confusion , which he is not . s. i confess , i find no order from christ to form or constitute a church without baptism ; i find the church founded by himself , to be constituted in the use of the baptism of repentance , for remission of sin. i believe this church , formed by christ at jerusalem , to be the mother-church , and that therefore her foundation-principles are necessary for the true constitution of all other churches . i now desire you to shew me the due form of baptism . f. the due form of baptism , is by dipping the repentant-believer into the water , in the name of the father , and of the son , and of the holy ghost , mat. 28. 19. and hence it was , that john baptised in aenon near salem , because there was much water there , john 3. 23. and they were all baptised in the river of jordan , confessing their sins , mark 1. 5. s. was christ himself dipped in jordan by john baptist ? f. yes , it is granted by the learned , that mark 1. 9. is expressed for it , the greek being 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; which they confess to be , word for word in english , and was dipped of john into jordan . and 't is clear , when christ was baptised , he came up straight●●y out of the water , mat. 3. 16. which example alone should make all christians afraid to devise a form contrary to christ's own pattern , and his testimony also , who saith , thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness . s. but must the party baptised , be naked or cloathed when he goes down into the water ? f. he that is baptised , should be cloathed , because god hath required that all things in the church should be done decently and in order . and the party to be baptised , may as well be dipped in water with a convenient garment upon him as without . s. what ceremonies hath christ appointed to be used in baptism ? f. christ loved his church , and gave himself for it , that ●e might sanctify and cleanse it by the washing of water through the word . there is no other ceremony by his appointment to be used in baptism . s. may not the church alter the subject of baptism , and change the manner of administration , as the papists ( and others ) have generally done ? f. no , the lord christ commands his apostles to teach all his people to observe all things whatsoever he commanded them , mat. 28. 19. they delivered that to the churches , which they received of the lord , 1 cor. 11. 23. the church is commended for keeping the ordinances as they were delivered to them , 1 cor. 11. 2. there was a curse followed them that changed god's ordinance , isa . 24. 5. s. i see it a duty incumbent upon all that will have due admission into the church of christ-militant , to be baptised with the baptism of repentance for remission of sins . i now desire to know the truth concerning the baptism of the spirit , so much claimed in these days , tho some deny that there is any such baptism now to be expected . f. that the gift of the holy ghost ( which is the baptism of the spirit ) is a right which pertains to the church , or to baptis'd believers in their successive generations , is evident , act. 2. 38 , 39. it belongs to all that the lord our god shall call. if any man have not the spirit of christ , he is none of his , rom. 8. 9. because ye are sons , god hath sent forth the spirit of his son into your hearts , crying , abba , father , gal. 4. 6. there is one body , and one spirit , even as ye are called in one hope of your calling , ephes . 4. 4. the love of god is shed abroad in our hearts by the holy ghost , rom. 5. 5. now we have received , not the spirit of the world , but the spirit which is of god , that we might know the things which are freely given to us of god. s. are these things meant of the baptism of the spirit , or of some lower receivings of it ? f. these are the best part of the promise of the spirit , which whoso receive , are sealed thereby to the day of redemption , and are the earnest of our inheritance ; and are therefore most fitly called the baptism of the spirit , because the spirit receives in the nine fruits of it , gal. 5. 22 , 23. transcends it's being received in the nine gifts of it , 1 cor. 12. 8 , 9 , 10. the first are called the more excellent way of receiving the spirit , 1 cor. 12. ult . i had rather have that one fruit of the spirit called love , then all the nine gifts of the spirit . s. but are not the gifts of the spirit ceas'd ? f. no such matter ! unless our unworthiness deprive us of them . are not these exhortations yet of force ? covet earnestly the best gifts . follow after charity , and desire spiritual gifts , and rather that ye may prophesy . covet to prophesy , and forbid not to speak with tongues . sure these exhortations inform us , that as the church hath need , she may lawfully ask these best gifts . but let her remember there is a better part of the promise of the spirit than the best of these gifts . s. i am satisfied the whole promise of the spirit pertains to the church , and that therefore the baptism of the spirit remains . i would know what ordinary way god hath assigned to wait upon him for so great a blessing ? f. indeed our receiving the promise of the spirit through faith , gal. 3. 14. in the sanctifying operations of it , is the next great blessing of the gospel , to our being justified by faith in the blood of christ . and for a more full answer to your enquiry , i refer you to what shall be said upon the fourth principle of the doctrine of christ . the fourth principle of st. paul's catechism : or , the laying on of hands . son. seeing this principle is express'd in the singular number [ laying on of hands , not layings on of hands ] i desire to know what laying on of hands is here meant ? father . 1. it cannot be a violent laying on of hands [ as some prophanely imagine ] ; our saviour taught none to lay violent hands upon his people ; and yet the very act of laying on of hands here , is called a principle of the doctrine of christ . 2. the greek , is , epitheseos te chiron , which signifies a gentle putting on of hands . the word which signifies a violent handling , is another word , as in luk. 21. 12. epibalousin . but such is the great blindness of some , that they will not see a difference between a prophecy , as that is in luk. 21. 12. and a doctrine , as this is , heb. 6. 2. s. i am satisfied thus far , that it can be no violent act. i desire to hear the truth . f. it must be a service which concerns all christians equally , as they are babes in christ , because it is called milk for babes , heb. 5. 12 , 13. a beginning principle , heb. 6. 1. and placed among those other five principles , which do equally concern all christians to know , as you are babes in christ . and for these reasons it cannot be laying on of hands for ordination , nor upon the sick. it must therefore be that religious service performed by the apostles , acts 8. 14. and 19. 6. 2 tim. 1. 6. for the promised spirit , both gifts and fruits , as god pleas●d . s. but did not the apostles give the holy ghost , by putting on of their hands ? f. no , in no wise , god gave the spirit to those who did obey him , act. 5. 32. the apostles only prayed for this blessing , which they knew belonged to baptised believers as such , act. 2. 38. and 19. 2. and faithful pastors ought to teach babes in christ ; this principle , as it respects the promise of the spirit , and to pray for it on behalf of the disciples , both men and women , after the example of the apostles , act. 8. 14. else they cannot lay the whole of that foundation , heb. 6. 1 , 2. nor teach babes in christ all their principles . s. was this practice of prayer , with laying on of hands , continued in the church of christ in the ages next after the apostles ? f. yes , it was religiously observed ; eusebius mentions it , as the ancient manner , viz. prayer , and laying on of hands , lib. 7. c. 2. and so does tertullian long before him , lib. de bapt. his words are , after we are come out of the laver of baptism , the hand is laid on by blessing , calling upon , and inviting the holy ghost . s. these things are very plain to such as are willing to be informed . i desire now to be informed , what is the reason why so very few do receive these principles , in the native purity and simplicity of them , and especially these two practical ones , baptism , and laying on of hands ? f. 1. one great reason is , because a false baptism , without repentance and faith , and dispensed in a man-pleasing way : and likewise an outwardly glorious and ceremonious bishoping , has obtruded upon very many , by which they are blinded , that they cannot , or prejudiced , that they will not see these truths , than which scarce any are more plain and easy to be seen . 2. another may be this , the wisdom of god knowing the great pride of man's heart , ordained these ordinances , to try them , whether they would be obedient to his commands , how low so ever , or whether they would contemn the very foot-steps of christ himself , the only son of god. the pharisees and lawyers led the way in this rebellion against god's counsel , luke 7. 29. and many follow them , rejecting the counsel of god , against all power in heaven and earth , matth. 28. 17 , 18. being not baptised in the name of the father , and of the son , and of the holy ghost . s. i confess we have the foot-steps of christ most plain in the case of baptism ; but have we any thing from him to favour us in the laying on of hands with prayer for the promised spirit ? f. yes verily , we have as much from his own example herein , as the case could bear ; for jesus , as soon as he was baptised , prayed , and the heavens were opened , and the holy ghost descended in the bodily shape of a dove upon him ; and a voice came from heaven which said , this is my beloved son , in whom i am well-pleased . the things which from hence favour our cause in hand , are these . 1. christ did not ask this sealing and confirming spirit , till after he was baptised : but as soon as baptised , he prays , and receives the holy ghost . here is nothing wanting but the administrator , which could not be found among men ; for who durst pray for christ that he might receive the spirit ? i could object upon others , that in christ's baptism repentance was wanting . yet sure his baptism is very precedential to us , it coming as near us as the case would bear ; and so likewise he comes as near us in his waiting for the spirit after baptism as the case will bear . s. i desire to see the grounds of those two duties , baptism , and laying on of hands , in a few particulars . f. the grounds on which these duties may be asserted , and defended , are ; 1. the express command of christ , or , the express doctrine of christ , they being both principles of his doctrine . 2. christ's own example , or president , as far as the greatness and holiness of his person would bear it , to be exemplary in either . 3. the undoubted necessity of the chief blessings , annexed to the religious use of these services respectively . 4. sufficient example of many thousands of christians , men and women , at jerusalem and samaria , &c. submitting to these services at their principles . 5. no repeal of these services , or of either of them , since their institution in the church of christ . 6. the undeniable consent of antiquity for some hundreds of years down from the very dayes of the apostles . 7. the scriptureless , trifling , self-contradicting , and nonsensical objections , which hitherto have been brought against sacred baptism , or prayer , with the laying on of hands , for the ends for which they were at first observed . the fifth principle of st. paul's catechism : or , the resurrection of the dead . son. what is the true definition of the resurrection of the dead , according to christian doctrine and faith ? father . the resurrection of the dead is an act of divine and almighty power , quickning dead bodies , and restoring them to a state of such perfection , as to have an eternal duration ; but does not necessarily infer the happiness of the dead , so raised , but with respect to the event of that trial which they then shall undergo . and therefore the resurrection is distinguished into two parts , by christ himself , john 5. 28 , 29. marvel not at this , for the hour is coming , in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice , and shall come forth ; they that have done good , to the resurection of life , and they that have done evil , to the resurrection of condemnation . s. shall the same body in respect of it's flesh and bones rise again ? f. it must either be the same flesh and bones , or nothing , seeing there is nothing else laid in the grave that may be called man. and this is the ancient faith of god's people , as appears in job 19. 26 , 27. though after my skin , worms destroy this body , yet in my flesh shall i see god : whom i shall see for my self , and not another , though my reins be consumed in me . s. i confess this agrees with our saviour's words before mentioned , all that are in the graves , shall hear his voice and come forth . but does not christ speak mystically of the graves of sin ? f. no , he had spoken of those that are dead in sin before , vers . 25. the hour is coming , and now is , when the dead shall hear the voice of the son of god ; and they that hear shall live . this he speaks of the powerful preaching of the gospel to convert those that were dead in sin. then adds , marvel not at this , for the hour is coming , that all that are in the graves shall hear his voice , and shall come forth ; but some of these to condemnation , which respects the last judgment , undeniably . s. how then does the apostle say , that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of god ? 1 cor. 15. 50. f. 1. he explains himself in the next words ; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption ; he speaks of men in their sinful and mortal state ; they must be regenerate by the work of the spirit , and freed from mortality in the resurrection , or ( as the next verse shews ) partake of a change which is equivalent ; or else they cannot enter into the kingdom of heaven . 2. it is certain our saviour was flesh and bones after he was risen from the dead , luk. 24. 39. yet , he entered into heaven it self , there to appear in the presence of god for us . heb. 9. 24. s. i confess it must follow , that if no flesh can enter into heaven , then christ's glorified body cannot be there , which doubtless it is . but have we sufficient testimony that our bodies shall put off mortality , and be glorified with his glorious body ? f. yes , for it is written , this mortal must put on immortality , and this corruption must put on incorruption , and so death shall be swallowed up in victory . and again , he shall change our vile body , that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body , according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself , phil. 3. 21. s. are there any examples , that any of the dead who had lain long in the graves was raised ? f. yes , there is a full instance of that , mat. 27. 52 , 53. the graves were opened , and many bodies of the saints which slept , arose and came out of the graves , and appeared to many . now these saints doubtless had been long dead , for we read of no saints dying at jerusalem about the time of christ's suffering . s. are there any other examples to confirm this great article of our faith ? f. it pleased god to give an instance of his power , and of his will in this behalf , near the beginning of the world , in that he translated enoch that he should not see death , gen. 5. 24. heb. 11. 5. 2. god also took elijah the prophet up into heaven , without tasting of death , 2 king. 2. 1 , 11 , 12. 3. elisha by the power of god raised a dead child to life , 2 king. 4. 33 , 34 , 35. 4. by god's power a dead man was raised to life , at the touch of the bones of the prophet elisha , 2 king. 13. 21. s. are there any examples of this kind in the new testament ? f. 1. our saviour raised a young man , as he was carried upon the bier to be buried , luk. 7. 13 , 14 , 15. 2. he raised also the daughter of jairus , mark 5. 40 , 41 , 42. 3. christ raised lazarus when he had been dead and buried , commanding the dead to come forth ; and though he was bound hand and foot , yet he came forth by the power of god , john 11. 43 , 44. 4. st. peter raised tabitha to life , by the strength of christ , act. 9. 40 , 41. 5. but the greatest instance of all is , the resurrection of christ himself , by which god hath given assurance to all men , that all men shall rise again , both the just and unjust , act. 17. 31. s. was this article of faith received by the prophets before the coming of christ ? f. the prophet david spake of the resurrection of the body of christ , psal . 16. 8. and of the hope of his own resurrection also . this was the hope of israel , act. 23. 21. & 24. 15. 2. the prophet isa hath these words ; thy dead men shall live , together with my dead body shall they arise : awake , and sing , ye that dwell in the dust , isa . 26. 19. augustine refers this to the resurrection . 3. daniel tells us , that many that sleep in the dust of the earth , shall awake , some to everlasting life , and some to everlasting shame and contempt , dan. 12. 2. 4. hosea 13. 14. as interpreted by the apostle , 1 cor. 15. is very plain , i will ransom them from the power of the grave ; i will redeem them from death : o death , i will be thy plagues ; o grave , i will be thy destruction . s. these testimonies are very clear . i desire some further confirmation of this truth from the new testament . f. 1. for this i refer you to the serious reading of 1 cor. 15. throughout ; where the apostle , by divers arguments , confirms this truth , and especially by the resurrection of christ , and the importance of the thing it self , making all religion insignificant , unless there be a resurrection from the dead . 2. i will here insert this excellent testimony to the thessalonians . i would not have you ignorant , brethren , concerning them which are asleep , that ye sorrow not , even as others which have no hope . for if we believe that jesus died , and rose a●ain ; then they also which sleep in jesus , shall god bring with 〈◊〉 . for this we say unto you by the word of the lord , 〈◊〉 we which are alive , and remain unto the coming of the lord , shall not prevent ( or hinder the resurrection of ) them that are asleep : for the lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout , with the voice of the arch-angel , and with the trump of god ; and the dead in christ shall rise first . then we which are alive , and remain , shall be caught up together with them in the clouds , to meet the lord in the air : and so shall we ever be with the lord. 1 thess . 4. s. i bless god for these clear testimonies . i desire now to be instructed concerning the eternal judgment . the sixth principle of st. paul's catechism : or , the eternal judgment . father . the manner of christ's coming to judgment is thus described : then shall appear the sign of the son of man in heaven : and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn , and they shall see the son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with great glory . and he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet , and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds , from one end of heaven to another . mat. 24. 30 , 31. s. this will be a terrible day ! who is this son of man ? f. this son of man is christ jesus ; for god 〈◊〉 se●d jesus , who before was preached unto you , act. 3. 20 the same jesus which you have seen go up into heaven , sha●● so come in like manner as you have seen him go into heaven , acts 1. 11. behold , he cometh with clouds , and every eye shall see him , and they also who pierced him ; and all nations shall wail because of him , rev. 1. 7. s. why shall the nations wail because of him ? f. because , when the son of man shall come in his glory , and all the holy angels with him , then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory . and before him shall be gathered all nations , and he shall separate them one from another , as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats , mat. 25. 31 , 32. s. to what end shall christ thus divide the nations ? f. to give to every man according as his work shall be . for he shall set the sheep on his right hand , and the goats on the left . then shall the king say to them on his right hand , come ye blessed of my father , inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world : for i was hungry , and ye sed me , &c. then shall he say also unto them on his left hand , depart from me , ye cursed , into everlasting fire , prepared for the devil and his angels . for i was an hungry , and ye gave me no meat , mat. 25. 34 , 35 , 41 , 42. s. this is a glorious and terrible description of the judgment of the world. i pray , by what records will christ judg the nations ? f. he shall especially proceed in judgment with all men , according to the gospel , that is , according to the means of grace which he gave them , rom. 2. 15 , 16. for this is the condemnation , that light is come into the world , and men love darkness rather than light , john 3. 17 , 18. and yet more particularly , they that have sinned without law , shall perish without law ; and they that have sinned in the law , shall be judged by the law. and those that have the gospel , the word which christ hath spoken shall judg them at the last day . s. there are several books spoken of in rev. 20. 10. what are these books ? f. the books are metaphorical , and signify , 1. god's omniscience ; for he shall bring every work to judgment , with every secret thing , whether it be good or evil , eccles . 12. ult . 2. the consciences of men which then shall be awakened to condemn them , or acquit them , rom. 2. 15 , 16. may here be called books . s. i desire to know what is meant by the book of life ? and whether any that were once written in it , may be blotted out of it ? f. the time when this book shall be opened , will best resolve the first question . but thus much we know , that the promise and covenant of life made with adam , renewed with noah and with abraham , and confirmed by christ , is , to us , the book of life , out of which men may blot themselves , or render themselves unworthy of eternal life by sin , and especially by unbelief , mark 16. 16. he that believeth not , shall be damned , act. 13. 46. see and consider exod. 32. 32. psal . 69. 28. rev. 3. 5. & 21. 17. s. shall the punishment of ungodly men be perpetual ? shall it never end ? f. the wicked shall be turned into hell , and all that forget god , psal . 9. 17. where their worm di●th not , and their fire is not quenched , mark 9. 44 , 45. they shall be punished with everlasting destruction , 2 thess . 1. 19. the hellish torments are for the devils and the wicked for ever . there is no promise of any pardon to the damned ; nor that their torments shall have an end ; and therefore for any to say these torments shall end , is presumptuous folly. s. of what duration shall the glory of the saved be ? f. their life and glory is every where said to be everlasting , their kingdom incorruptible and undefiled , that fadeth not away . god shall wipe away all tears from their eyes , and there shall be no more death , nor sorrow , nor crying ; nor shall there be any more pain , for the former things are passed away ▪ rev. 21. 4. they shall shine as the brightness of the firmament , and as the stars , for ever and ever , dan. 12. 3. s. shall the children of god know one another , and so rejoice together in the kingdom of their father ? f. 1. yes , they shall be like the angels , who know one another , and rejoice together in heaven , luke 15. 7 , 10. they shall be like christ , for they shall see him as he is ; and as he conversed of the things concerning his kingdom after he was risen , he will tell them also of his brethren , and what kindness they shewed to them . 2. st. paul tells the thessalonians , that they were the hope and crown of his rejoicing in the day of the lord jesus christ ; yea , his glory and joy. but how this should be , and he not know them , is not easy to conceive . 3. the communion of the faithful in heaven shall far exceed what it was on earth ; but this cannot well be , unless they know each other . s. does the last judgment agree to the principles of common justice and equity ? f. 1. there is nothing in it contrary thereunto ; for when life and death are set before men , and men chuse death by chusing sinful ways against the known will of god , it 's just with god to give them their choice . 2. if there were not a judgment to come , wicked men would go unpunish'd , for in this world they commonly escape ; they can bribe almost any wicked action , even murder it self . now all principles of justice cry for vengeance in this case , both to the offender , and he that covers iniquities . and hence , the last judgment is necessary , and agrees with all principles of common justice . 3. if there were not a judgment to come , the just and righteous people of god would be of all men most miserable , 1 cor. 15. 19. for here they are oftentimes exposed to the hardest things , and that for well-doing too . now 't is equal that they should have a time of refreshing , and to this common principles of justice do agree . finally , we can none of us perfectly understand how hainous the sins of those are , who reject the grace of god in the gift of his son ; and therefore we are not able to measure what punishment is proportionable to such iniquity . but here we must rest : that the judg of all the earth will do ●ight . for if there were unrighteousness with god , how then should he judg the world ? rom. 3. 5 , 6. but all his ways are judgment ; a god of truth , and without iniquity ; just and right is he . deut. 32. 4. s. when shall be the time of this eternal judgment ? f. god has not revealed that to man ; but in that our life here is very short , this judgment is at hand in respect of us . for it is appointed unto man once to die , and after that the judgment , heb. 9. 27. s. i am well satisfied concerning these sacred principles of the christian religion , i desire some further instruction concerning my walking with god in the communion of his church . f. being thus a christian , built upon this foundation , christ being the chief corner-stone , thou must continue in the faith , colos . 1. 23. and keep thy self in the love of god , praying in the holy ghost , judge 20. walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the lord blameless , luke 1. 6. obeying all thy superiors . s. i desire you to shew me the rules of prayer ; and also the rules of my obedience to my superiors . f. these things are briefly comprehended in the lord's prayer , which he taught his disciples ; and in the fifth commandment , which is the first commandment with promise , matth. 6. 9 , 10 , 11 , 12 , 13. ephes . 6. 2. which in the next discourse we will consider . of the duty of prayer . son. who may warrantably pray according to christ's directions , in the prayer set down mat. 6. 9 , & c ? father . although it is the duty of all men to humble themselves in prayer before the lord their maker , yet these rules were given to the disciples of christ , to the children of god. s. in what sence are christians the children of god ? f. by adoption and regeneration ; they are born of god , or of the spirit , and received into grace and favour . s. i desire you to expound unto me the lord's prayer . f. that i shall endeavour to do . 1. our father which art in heaven . christ teacheth us , to put on charity when we pray ; that is , to include our brethren with our selves . when we pray unto god , we must also pray in faith , believing that he heareth us , jam. 1. 6 , 7. mat. 21. 22. 2. which art in heaven . here we profess that our god is in heaven , as the place of his special residence . hence our saviour in prayer did frequently lift up his eyes to heaven . 3. hallowed be thy name . we are to make the honour and glory of the name of god , the dearest to us of all things ; thus moses was more willing to die , than that the name of god should be reproached . 4. thy kingdom come . the kingdom of god is to be considered , with respect to his church in this world. and then we pray , in this petition , for it's growth in number and in grace . we ought also to hope for the coming of christ's kingdom in the glory of it , and by prayer to seek for it . 5. thy will be done in earth as it is in heaven ; it is evident here , that by heaven is meant heaven in a literal sence , the place which is opposed to the earth . and in all prayer we must submit our will to the will of god , and to beware that we do not act contrary to his will , and so contradict our own prayer . 6. give us this day our daily bread. here we acknowledg that our common mercies are all in the hand of god to give them , or to withhold them . we are also taught to live by faith in these enjoyments , and not only by some , because god has promised that all these things shall be added to those that seek him rightly . 7. and forgive us our debts , as we forgive our debtors . we learn here that the best of god's children are liable to offend , they never esteemed themselves pe●●● without all imperfection : and they that offend , must pray , and that daily too , for remission of sin ; this teacheth us to humble our selves daily before god. we see here also a necessity of being merciful to such as offend us , and to forgive with readiness all that trespass against us ; specially if they do turn , saying , i repent . prayer for mercy , without charity in him that prayeth , will not be accepted of god. 8. and lead us not into temptation , but deliver us from evil. here we profess to believe , that god has the disposing of all tryals which do attend us in this mortal state ; and here we pray that he will not suffer us to be tempted above what we are able , but that he will with the temptation make a way to escape , that we may be able to bear it . 9. for thine is the kingdom , and the power , and the glory for ever . here we profess our faith in prayer . 1. that the kingdom is his ; and that therefore we depend on him for the prosperity of it , and for the glorious coming of his kingdom . 2. that all power is his , and therefore we depend on him to provide for , and to deliver us , according to his will. 3. that the glory is everlastingly due to god ; and therefore we ascribe it , as the church did , not unto us , not unto us , but unto thy name give glory ; this is also to praise god in prayer . 10. amen . this word being truly expressed , shews the full assent of the mind to the whole of the prayer , whether express'd by our selves in private , or by such as join sincerely with us in publick . s. is it our duty to use this form of words , or to pray according to the tenor of the words ? f. doubtless we are at liberty to use both ; and for weak christians , and indeed for all christians in their private devotions , it is safe to use these very words , so they be spoken with a heart and soul truly breathing after god , when ye pray , say , our father , &c. luk. 11. 2. s. what other ordinances hath christ ordained for the general use of his church ? f. preaching the word to edification , exhortation , reproof , and correction of offenders , and the comfort of the sincere ; and therewithall the frequent use of the holy table of the lord , 2 tim. 4. 1 , 2. act. 2. 42. s. how shall i know a lawful minister , one that is sent of god , that i may hear the word according to the will of god ? f. observe these rules . 1. know that no man of true christian modesty , will pretend to be immediatly sent by a commission from heaven . and yet , 2. god must make men ministers by the gifts of his grace , illuminating their understanding , and capaciating them to speak to edification , before the church can make them ministers . 3. no unbaptised person , let his parts be what they will , has any liberty to be a minister in the church of god , because he is not yet imbodied with the church of god , nor can be without baptism . and here remember our dear saviour would not preach one sermon till he was baptised . 4. when men are competently gifted and qualified in point of life , being church-members , they are to be chosen by the church , and ordain'd to the work of the ministery , by prayer and fasting , with the laying on of hands of the messengers and elders of the church , for such offices as the church finds them most capable . 5. there is a liberty in the church , for brethren which are capable , to exercise their gifts to the edification of the body ; and men thus called , or priviledged in the church , thou mayest lawfully hear . if thou further goest , thou goest without rule . s. what honour or respect do i ow to my lawful pastours or teachers ? f. 1. thou art bound to honour them in love , for the work's-sake whereunto they are called . 2. thou must obey them in the lord , as they declare to thee the counsel of god , and admonish thee . 3. thou must pray for them , that god may make them a blessing to thee . s. of what concernment is the holy table of the lord ? f. it is an ordinance of great concernment ; being ordained by christ himself to shew forth a perpetual memorial of his death , till he come the second time without sin to salvation . s. i pray shew me the manner of its ins●itution . f. the lord jesus , the same night in which he was betrayed , took bread. and when he had given thanks , he brake it , and said , take , eat , this is my body which is broken for you ; this do in remembrance of me . and after the same manner also he took the cup , when he had supped , saying , this cup is the new testament in my blood ; this do ye , as oft as ye drink it , in remembrance of me . for as often as ye eat this bread , and drink this cup , ye do shew forth the lord's death till he come , 1 cor. 11. s. what is required of all that partake of this holy bread and cup ? f. 1. they must be such as continue in the apostles doctrine , and true christian fellowship , act. 2. 42. 2. they must examine themselves , whether they walk in the truth with a good conscience , both towards god , and also towards men. 3. they must labour to discern the lord's body , as the only sacrifice for sin , as signified in this service . 4. they must hereby testify true unity with the church : who are hereby shewed to be one bread , and one body , for they are all partakers of that one bread. s. what is the danger of eating this bread , and drinking this cup unworthily ? f. they that eat and drink unworthily , receive condemnation to themselves , not discerning the lord's body . s. is this bread , and this cup , the real body , and the real blood of christ ? f. this bread , and this cup , is the real body and blood of christ , in a spiritual and mystical sense , but not carnally and corporally . s. are all members of the church to partake of the cup , as well as of the bread ? f. yes , they have express command from christ to take the cup ; for he saith , drink ye all of it , matth. 26. 27. the bread is the communion of the body of christ , and the cup is the communion of the blood of christ ; and of this communion the whole body mystical , the church , are partakers , 1 cor. 10. 3 , 4 , 16. s. but were they not all ministers that sat at the table with our saviour ? f. when ministers receive that holy bread , an● cup , they do not receive it as they are ministers , 〈◊〉 as they are members of the body , 1 cor. 10. 17. 〈◊〉 dispense the ordinance as ministers , but they partake●● it as members . s. whether are we to kneel when we receive th● holy ordinance , or to sit at the table ? f. a reverent gesture is necessary ; but decently to sit at the table of the lord is most warrantable , being according to the example of christ and his apostles at the institution , matth. 26. 20. mark 14. 18. luk. 22. 14. s. what is the conclusion of this service ? f. giving thanks to god for his mercy in giving christ for us : and this is to be done with hearts fille● with joy , and the thanksgiving to be in the manner of an hymn . s. must this hymn , or thanksgiving , be in meeter , and expressed by all ? f. there is no rule for either of these ; and the first would infer the necessity of a poet to compose the hymn , which is not to be supposed . 2. all pray and praise god when they heartily join with the minister , who is most sit to express the praises of god in the church . of obedience to superiours . son. what is my duty towards my parents by god's law , and by the gospel ? father . 1. to love and reverence their persons . 2. a pious fear and obedience to their authority , lev. 19. 3. prov. 23. 22. & 1. 8. my son , hear the instruction of thy father , and forsake not the law of thy mother . the just commands of parents are a law to children ; colos . 3. 20. children , obey your parents in all things , for this is well-pleasing to the lord. 3. to help them when they are in want ; thus our saviour interpreteth the fifth commandment , mat. 15. 4 , 5 , 6. mark 7. 12. 4. not to speak evil of your parents , for he that does so , is in danger of death , mark 7. 10. mat. 15. 5. s. what is the duty of servants to masters ? f. 1. let as many servants as are under the yoak , count their own masters worthy of all honour , that the name of god and his doctrine be not blasphemed , 1 tim. 6. 1. 2. and they that have believing masters , let them not despise them because they are brethren , but rather do them service because they are faithful , 1 tim. 6. 2. the gospel does not free any from the duties of morality , but makes their obligation to these duties more strong . and if any man teach otherwise , to open a gap to disobedience to our superiours , he is proud , and knows nothing , 1 tim. 6. 3. 3. servants are to be obedient to them that are their masters according to the flesh , with fear and trembling , in singleness of heart as to christ , not with eye-service as men-pleasers , but as the servants of christ , doing the will of god from the heart with good will doing service as to the lord , and not to men [ because though we serve men in these duties of life , yet god is he that commands it ] knowing ( also ) that what good thing any man doth , [ in the honest d●●charge of his duty ] the same shall he receive of the lord , whether he be a servant or a master , ephes . 6. 5. to 9. s. what is the duty of young men to the aged ? f. thou shalt rise up before the gray head , and honour the face of the old man , lev. 19. 32. s. what other demonstrations of honour is there due to the aged ? f. to speak to them reverently as to fathers , and to give them the civilities of the place . of the honour due to the king. son. what is my duty to●●●ds my prince or soveraign ? father . thou art to honour the king next unto god , because there is none above him in authority over thee but god : fear god , honour the king , 1 pet. 2. 17. he is the lord 's anointed , for so was cyrus king of persia , ezra 1. 1. isa . 45. 1. they are called gods , psal . 82. 6. fear therefore the lord and the king , and meddle not with disloyal persons who are given to change , prov. 24. 21. let every soul be subject to the higher powers — for the powers that be are ordained of god , rom. 13. 1 , 2 , 3. s. in what things am i bound to obey my soveraign ? f. in all things which he commands , either actively or passively . submit your selves to every ordinance of man for the lord's sake , whether it be to the king as supream , or unto governours as unto those that are sent by him , 1 pet. 2. 13 , 14. thou must be ready to every good work which they command , tit. 3. 1. thou must in no wise rebel against him , rom. 13. 2. s. what if god command one thing , and the king command another contrary to god's command , what then must i do ? f. thou 〈◊〉 do what god commands , and suffer patiently what the king imposeth , though it be death it self ; for so did daniel , ch. 6. 10. and so did the three children , dan. 3. 16 , 17. and the apostles did the same , act. 4. 19. s. wha● must be the frame of my spirit towards my prince in such hard usage ? f. 1. thou must not curse the king , no not in secret , for god will discover it , eccles . 10. 20. thou shalt not revile the gods , nor speak evil of the ruler of my people , exod. 22. 28. act. 23. 5. 2. thou must give to caesar the things which are caesars ; honour , fear , tribute , &c. for so hath christ commanded , mat. 22. 21. rom. 13. 7. 3. thou must pray for him in love unfainedly ; for this is good and acceptable in the sight of god our saviour , 1 tim. 2. 1 , 2 , 3. 4. thou must do all this for conscience-sake , suffering grief patiently , commiting thy self into the hands of god , in well-doing , as into the hands of a faithful creator , rom. 13. 5. 1 pet. 2. 19. & 4. 19. to conclude , know this , that religion is ordain'd to make us wise and good men. the christian religion is the best religion : and the best christians will be the best subjects to princes , most obedient to parents , most faithful to masters ; for herein do they exercise themselves , to have always a conscience void of offenc● , both towards god , by walking humbly with him ; and towards men , by doing to all men as they would that men should do to them . act. 24. 16. mat. 7. 12. finis . spiritual songs being the marrow of scripture in songs of praise to almighty god from the old and new testament : with a hundred divine hymns on several occasions as now practised in several congregations in and about london : with a table of contents / by benjamin keach, author of the war with the devil. keach, benjamin, 1640-1704. 1700 approx. 164 kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from 64 1-bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : 2005-12 (eebo-tcp phase 1). a47612 wing k94 estc r30480 11333207 ocm 11333207 47492 this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons 0 1.0 universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase 1, no. a47612) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set 47492) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, 1641-1700 ; 1465:8) spiritual songs being the marrow of scripture in songs of praise to almighty god from the old and new testament : with a hundred divine hymns on several occasions as now practised in several congregations in and about london : with a table of contents / by benjamin keach, author of the war with the devil. keach, benjamin, 1640-1704. the second edition. [6], 103 p. printed for john marshal ..., london : 1700. contains texts only. reproduction of original in the bodleian library. created by converting tcp files to tei p5 using tcp2tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between 1473 and 1700 available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the 25,363 texts created during phase 1 of the project have been released into the public domain as of 1 january 2015. anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. 5% (or 5 pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of 100 instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level 4 of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p5, characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng hymns, english -early works to 1800. baptists -england -hymns. 2005-05 tcp assigned for keying and markup 2005-06 apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images 2005-07 simon charles sampled and proofread 2005-07 simon charles text and markup reviewed and edited 2005-10 pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion spiritual songs : being the marrow of the scripture , in songs of praise to almighty god ; from the old and new testament . with a hundred divine hymns on several occasions : as now practised in several congregations in and about london . the second edition ; with a table of contents . by benjamin keach , author of the war with the devil . eph. v. 19. col . iii. 16. london : printed for john marshal , at the bible in grace-church-street . 1700. where you may be supplied with most of the author's works . a table of contents of the songs . moses's song page 1 the second part 2 isaiah's song 4 isaiah's joyful song 5 the song of zacharias 6 the song of the blessed virgin 7 the song of simeon 8 the song of the lamb 9 part of hannahs song 10 the song of the lamb 12 a song of praise for the discovery of the plot 18 of the hymns . the eternity of god 5 the immensity of god 6 on the omniscience of god 7 the great wisdom of god 8 god's piercing eyes 9 the power of god 10 god's mercy shining 11 the covenant & faithfulness of god 12 on god's sovereignity 13 god's glorious bounty 14 abounding mercy of god in christ 15 the patience of god 16 another on god's patience 17 on the birth of christ 18 the second part 25th psalm tune 19 on the deity of christ 20 on christ's suretiship ibid. of christs divine love cant. 1. 22 the churches spiknard 23 he 's white & ruddy 24 deliverance from the pit 25 christ at the sinners door 26 all glory to god and the lamb 27 god's glory display'd 28 the soul rent , or glory shining 29 on the great salvation of the gospel 30 look unto jesus 31 the joy of believers 32 christ exalted 34 christ's glory 35 the saint indeed 36 at administration of baptism 37 the drooping spirit revived 38 evil thoughts abhor'd 39 the backslider healed 40 ephraim mixed among the people 41 the good samaritan 42 the voice of the turtle 43 — buy of me 44 a bleeding christ & bleeding heart 45 salvation great and glorious 46 the tender hearts triumph 47 the broken and contrite heart ibid righteousness of christ glorious 48 christ's peny or the laborours hire 49 the blessed death of the saints 50 the happy death of the godly 51 a hymn on psalm . 17 , 15. 52 salvation shining 53 the saints holy triumph 54 the power of god's word 55 boundless mercy 56 a call to obedience 57 spiritual joy encreasing 58 christ our glorious shepheard . 59 truth in its primitive purity . 60 the spiritual bridegroom 61 god's temple plants . 62 christ's vine-yard 63 the noble vine 64 redeeming love 65 spiritual food ibid. the honour of christ's servants 66 christ the saints strength and guide 67 hope for believers 68 the joy of believers ibid. christ's green pastures 69 the fulness of christ 70 to praise god becomes the upright 71 the ax lifted up 72 a hymn of praise 73 treasure in earthen vessels 74 grace abounding 75 hell in a rage . 76 jacob's ladder a type of christ 77 the wonder of pardoning grace 78 the unwearied saint 79 god's court , or , glory near 80 god pardons , guids , and leads 81 a call to young-men ibid. unity of saints 82 infinite mercy shining 83 the joy of repenting tears 84 the saints triumph in christ 85 christ a believer's all 86 go forth by the foot-steps of the flock 87 my beloved is mine . 88 a hymn of praise for the new birth 89 a preparation hymn ibid. saints happy at death 90 saints the salt of the earth 91 — he 's altogether lovely . 92 the rose of sharon . 93 a hymn on cant. 5. 12. 94 desert places rejoyce 95 a ransom found 97 on the resurrection &c. 98 a hymn of praise 99 on the answer of prayers 100 another 101 a sacred hymn on sanctification . 102 several scripture songs taken out of the old and new-testament . with some other spiritual songs ; &c. moses's song , on exod. 15. 1 i to the lord , will sing , triumph in him also ; the horses and the riders he into the sea did throw . 2 jehovah is my song , and my salvation ; my god , for whom i will prepare an habitation : 3 my father's god was he , whose glory i 'll proclaim , jehovah is a man of war , jehovah is his name . 4 proud pharoah , and his host , into the sea are cast , and his great captains drowned be , as through the sea they past . 5 they down to th' bottom sank , ev'n like unto a stone ; jehovah thy right hand in pow'r , most glorious is become : 6 thy right hand hath destroy'd those that against thee rose ; and in thy glorious excellency , thou hast o'erthrown thy foes . the second part. 1 thou didst send forth thy wrath , like stubble them to waste , lord , thou didst blow , and the proud waves , o'erwhelm'd them with a blast . 2 the sea stood up in heaps for israel , ( on each side ) the enemy said , i will pursue , i will the spoil divide ? 3 my lust i will fulfill , my sword draw out will i ? my hand shall now cut them all off , and ruin utterly ? 4 thou with thy wind didst blow , and they were covered , they in the mighty waters sunk , as if they had been lead . 5 lord , who is like to thee , in holiness glor'us , fearful in praise , and also doth things that are marvellous . a prophetical part of moses's song , deut. 32. 1 give ear , o heavens , i will speak , and let also the earth , hear the good words of my own mouth , which now i shall bring forth , 2 my doctrin like the rain shall drop , my speech distil shall as the dew does on the tender herbs , and showers on the grass . 3 because that i jehovahs name will publish and make known ; i will ascribe greatness to god , yea , and to him alone . 4 he is the rock , and perfect too his ways and judgments be ; a god of truth , and without sin , both just and right is he . 3 because their rock unto our rock is not to be compar'd ; yea , though our enemies themselves , as judges should be heard : 5 vengeance is mine , i will repay , in time their feet shall slide , their dreadful day it does draw near , and woe shall them betide . 6 because the lord his saints shall judg , and for them he 'll repent , when none shut up , or lift he sees , when all their powers's spent . 7 then sing ye nations with his saints , revenge their blood will he , and render vengeance to his foes , but kind to his saints be . the song of the prophet isaiah . chap. 5. 1 i to my well-beloved , now , and of his vine-yard ( will sing a sweet song ) which he has set , upon a fruitful hill ; 2 he fenced it , and gather'd out the stones that did offend , he planted it with choicest vine , and it he did defend : 3 a tower in the midst he built , and made a wine-press too , and lookt that it should bring forth fruit , his glory great to show ; 4 but it brought forth wild grapes : alass ! to thee , jerusalem , and judah also i 'll appeal , and to all thinking men ; 5 'twixt me and my vine-yard to judge ; what further do could i unto my vine-yard ? when i loo'kt , no fruit could i espy : 6 instead of grapes , it did bring forth wild grapes : o then go to , unto my vine-yard , i 'll declare what 't is that i will do . 7 i 'll take away the hedge thereof , my anger shall be shown , eat up it shall , and it 's strong wall shall quite be overthrown ; 8 and i will lay it waste , and it not dig , nor prune again ; but there shall come bryers and thorns , and on it fall no rain . 9 for the house of israel , and the men of judah be the pleasant vine-yard of the lord ; but when he lookt to see 10 judgment and true justice done , oppression did espy ; and when he look'd for righteousness , behold ! a bitter cry. isaiah's joyful song . isa . 12. 1 jehovah i will give thee praise , this is the very day , for thou dost sweetly comfort me , thine anger 's turn'd away : 2 behold thou my salvation art , i will not be afraid , jehovah is my strength and song , my trust and saving aid : 3 therefore with gladness i will draw water out of the wells of salvation ( for they be thy people israels . 4 and in that day shall ye all say , praise the lord , on his name not only call , but for his acts lift up his glor'us fame . 5 sing ye unto the lord , for he most excellent things has done ; and this throughout the earth also , is now most fully known . 6 cry out , and shout , and joyful be , all that in sion dwell ; for great the holy one's in thee , o happy israel ! the song of zacharias . 1 let israel's great god and king eternally be bless'd , whose come from heav'n to visit us , and see our bonds , releas'd . 2 in davids house a saviour's rais'd , to sit upon his throne ; this ever since the world began , his prophets have foreshown . 3 that he would save us from the pow'r and malice of our foes ; the mercy to perform to them , which he of old had chose . 4 he call'd to mind how he engag'd his truth , by covenant , his solemn oath to abraham sworn , that he his grace would grant 5 to serve him without fear ; from all our adversaries freed ; and to continue all our days , a holy life to lead . 6 by the remission of our sins , to make salvation known , to all his people every where , his tender mercy 's shown . 7 the day-star from on high is rose , and those who also sit in darkness , he in the right way of peace will guide their feet . the song of the blessed virgin. luke . 1. 1 my soul does magnify the lord , my spirit does rejoyce in god , my saviour , who deserv'st the praise of heart and voice . 2 for his poor hand-maid he regards , whose mind was sore deprest ; and all ages from hence forth shall call me most truly blest . 3 he that is great hath wonders done , and holy is his name ; his mercies hath for ever been to his saints , still the same . 4 he with his strength hath pulled down the mighty from their seat ; and them of low and base degree , are rais'd to honour great . 5 he fill'd the hungry soul , with good , the rich empty remain'd ; his mercy he has call'd to mind , his people help have gain'd . 9 the promise to our fathers made , in the which he long stood , engag'd to abraham and his seed , he hath at last made good . the song of simeon , luke , 2. 29. 1 now let thy servant , lord , depart in peace , to quiet rest , since i have thy salvation seen , and with the same am blest : 2 the prophecies are now fulfill'd , thy promises are true ; and thy mysterious love 's disclos'd , in all thy peoples view . 3 a light to lighten the dark earth , now this bright sun appears , the gentiles shall enlighten'd be , sweet comforts shall them cheer . 4 well may the long expected sight , make israel's joy abound ; before with special favours grac'd , but now with glory crown'd . the song of the lamb out of the revelations 1 all ye that serve the lord , his name see that ye celebrate ; and yet that fear him sing aloud his praise both small and great . rev. 19. 5. 2 o thou great ruler of the world , thy works our wonder raise , thou blessed king of saints , how true and righteous are thy ways , rev. 15. 3. 3 who would not fear and praise thy name , thou only holy one : the world will worship thee , to whom thy judgments are made known . 4 most holy , holy , holy lord , almighty is thy name , which was before all time , and is , and shall be still the same . ch . 4. 8. 11. 5 all glory , pow'r , and honour , thou art worthy to receive ; for all things by thy pow'r were made , and by thy pleasure live . cha . 5. 12. 6 to thee , of right , o lamb of god , riches and pow'r belong ; wisdom and honour , glory , strength , and every praising song . 7 thou as our sacrifice was slain , and by thy precious blood , from every tongue and nation hast redeem'd us unto god. 8 blessing and honour , glory , pow'r , by all in earth and heaven , to him that sits upon the throne , and to the lamb be given . part of hannahs song , 1 sam. 2. [ as 100th psalm . ] 1 my heart doth in jehovah joy , my horn in jah is lift on high ; my mouth 's inlarged o'er my foes , in thy salvation joy will i. 2 there 's none so holy as the lord , no , no , there is none beside thee of other rocks , there is not one ; that to our god compar'd may be . 3 talk ye no more so proudly then , let not arrogancy once proceed out of your mouth , for god doth know , and 't is by him actions are weigh'd . 4 the lord both poor and rich does make , he raiseth up and pulleth down ; thee poor he up from dust does take , and beggars from the dunghil crown . 5 and sets them on a princely throne , in glorious power and dignity ; the pillars of the earth's the lords , the world is his , him glorifies . 6 he keeps the feet of all his saints , preserves them so they shall not fail , the vile in darkness shall be still , for no man shall by strength prevail . 7 the adversaries of the lord , shall broken be both great and small ; the lord from heaven thunder will , and in his wrath destroy them all , 8 the lord shall reign most gloriously , unto the ends of all the earth : and his anointed horn exalt , therefore his highest praise sing forth . the song of the lamb. 1 break out ye saints with joy and sing , to the eternal king ; the angels do blest tidings bring , hosannah in the highest . 2 in bethlehem the babe is born , cease , cease , your bitter mourn , your sorrow now to singing turn , hosannah in the highest . 3 he 's come , he 's come , o happy day ! dark shadows fly away , the substance 's come to christ i say , hosannah in the highest . 4 see how the cherubs clap their wings , the glor'us host now sings ; th' eternal day , see how it springs ! hosannah in the highest . 5 behold the lord baptiz'd by john , and what a glory shone ! the father says , this is my son ! hosannah in the highest . 6 he 's come , he 's come down from above , full of eternal love ; and also sealed by the dove , hosannah in the highest . 7 the dumb do speak , the blind do see , the dead they raised be ; and lepers cleans'd of leprosie , hosannah in the highest . 8 he preaches with authority , god's kingdom doth draw nigh , and pardons all iniquity , hosannah in the highest . 9 behold him now beset with grief , angels bring him relief , they him adore because he 's chief , hosannah in the highest . 10 behold him in his agony , our sins on him did ly , god's justice he did satisfie , hosannah in the highest . 11 behold him now upon the tree ; he cry'd in miserie , oh! why hast thou forsaken me ? hosannah in the highest . 12 ah! hear him make most bitter moan , hearken to his last groan ; for now for us his life is gone , hosannah in the highest . the second part. 1 the first day now it doth begin ; an end is put to sin , eternal righteousness brought in hosannah in the highest . 2 the grave did ope thou didst arise , ye saints lift up your eyes , the morning 's come , all darkness flies , hosannah in the highest . 3 infernal spirits cry and howl , their overthrow condole , for ever now their hopes are cool , hosannah in the highest . 5 now , sin , death , devils and the grave , and th' world which did inslave , are all all o'ercome , and their death have , hosannah in the highest . 6 behold how his sweet arms were spread , whilst his dear blood was shed , that sinners might be gathered , hosannah in the highest . 7 our sins upon thee , lord , were laid , and all our debts hast paid ; of hell we need not be afraid , hosannah in the highest . 8 god's dreadful wrath thou didst appease , guilty conscience to ease , and now canst save whom thou dost please , hosannah in the highest . the third part. 1 christ will begin that work , which he knows must be wrought , if we eternal joys do ever see , hosannah in the highest . 2 lord thou wilt perfect it also , for very well we know , without thee we can nothing do , hosannah in the highest . 3 we that polluted once did ly in filth and misery , thou by thy blood dost purifie , hosannah in the highest . 4 we once were cursed by god's law , dreading death , no help saw , from that sad state thou dost us draw , hosannah in the highest . 5 all kind of sin thou dost pass by , where there 's sincerity , when unto thee , by faith , we fly , hosannah in the highest . 6 from death to life , saints raised be , once bound , but now set free , and made one spirit , o lord , with thee , hosannah in the highest . the fourth part. 1 o happy vnion ! ( is it done ? ) with the father and son , are we vnited and made one ? hosannah in the highest . 2 adoption is a precious thing , made sons of th' mighty king , most precious joy from hence doth spring , hosannah in the highest . 3 communion , lord , also with thee ; nay , with th' whole trinity , what higher blessings can there be ? hosannah in the highest . 4 we at thy table sit and feed , and have what our souls need , and find thy blood , lord , drink indeed , hosannah in the highest . 5 thou supst with us , and we with thee , a joyful sight to see ; sweet is the food and company , hosannah in the highest . 6 thou sayest , thy beloved's mine ? ourselves , lord , we resign up unto thee ; for to be thine ; hosannah in the highest . the fifth part. 1 thy righteousness , o lord , divine , imputed is to thine , by which they do most spotless shine ; hosannah in the highest . 2 thou art the way to god to go , th'truth by which we him know , the life which does to thy saints flow , hosannah in the highest . 3 by thee we justified be , and from sin are set free , and god accepts us all in thee , hosannah in the highest . 4 thou art our prophet , priest , and king , a prophet that does bring such light from whence true joys do spring , hosannah in the highest . 5 a priest that stands 'twixt god and men , who hast atton'd for sin . and hast us brought to god agen , hosannah in the highest . 5 a king that rules o'er all above , and all that here do move ; he 's king of kings , yet full of love , hosannah in the highest . the sixth part. 1 christ is our meat , our drink , our health , our peace , our strength , glory wealth , all things besides thee are but pelf , hosannah in the highest . 2 our mediator surety . and advocate on high , thro' thee , god passes all sin by ; hosannah in the highest . 3 our righteousness and wisdom too , redemption , from all woe , sanctification from thee does flow , hosannah in the highest . 4 what shall i say ? or jesus call ? for he is all in all , and reign he shall o'er great and small , hosannah in the highest . 5 he hath redeem'd us by his blood , when in our room he stood ; and made us priests , and kings , to god , hosannah in the highest . 6 and we on earth with him shall reign ( when all his foes are slain ) for quickly now he 'll come again , hosannah in the highest . a song of praise for the marvellous deliverance of our sovereign king , william , with the church , and whole kingdom , from the hellish plot , discovered , feb. 1695 / 6 1 no change of time shall ever shock our firm affections , lord to thee ; for thou hast always been a rock , a fortress and defence to me . 2 our king preserved is , o god , by thy own hand and mighty pow'r ; thou shield'st him when he is abroad , at home to him a lasting tow'r . 3 the chariot of the king of kings , or troops of mighty angels round , encompass him with rapid wings , and all his foes with shame confound . 4 black thund'ring clouds most thick conspir'd , with threatning rage our face to veil , but at thy brightness soon retir'd : upon our foes falls fire and hail . 5 the lord doth on our side engage , from heaven his throne our cause upheld , and snatch'd us from the furious rage of threatning waves that proudly swell'd ; 6 god his resistless pow'r employ'd , our cruel foes attempts to break ; or else they might have soon destroy'd the best defence that we could make . 7 and gods designs shall still succeed ; romes bloody sons can't stand the test , he 's a strong shield to all that need , and on his sure protection rest . 8 who then deserv'st to be ador'd , but god , on whom our hopes depend , or who , except the mighty lord , can with resistless pow'r defend . 9 o let th' eternal god be prais'd , the rock , on whose defence we rest o'er highest heav'ns his name be rais'd , who with salvation us hath bless'd ' 10 therefore to celebrate his fame , our greatfull voices to heav'n we 'll raise , let nations round dread his great name , and all be taught to sing his praise . 11 god to our king and nation sends ( tho' vile we be ) salvation sweet , deliv'rance to his saints extends , to praise his name therefore t is meet . 12 hosannahs we to thee do owe , let all the nations worship thee , and thee adore , yea thee alone , the father of eternity . 13 thy name in songs we will adore protect thy saints , and keep them pure ; to thee lets live for evermore , since from curst plots we are secure . a feast of fat things &c. containing , one hundred sacred hymns , &c. century 1. hymn 1. the eternity of the great god. in th' regions of eternal light , thou hast most holy god ; from everlasting in thy self , had thy own bless'd abode : before this world by thee was fram'd , or , earth's foundations laid ; or , the vast heavens were spread forth or any creature made . 3 thou didst in glory , lord , abide ; thy being hadst alone , in thy own self , and none beside , was with the holy one. 4 the eternity of thy great name , help us , lord , to adore : from everlasting thy dread fame shone , and shall evermore . 5 thou happy wast in thy own self , and that in th' high'st degree ; to thy essential glory , lord , nothing can added be , 6 thou need'st not us ; what canst thou have from any creatures hand ? yet to ascribe all praise to thee , is thy most just command . hymn 2. the immensity of god , the praise of the dread majesty of the great god above , with trembling heart i would sing forth , o with him fall in love ! 2 but what am i ? poor sorry dust that i should god admire ! be silent then , and let 's give place unto the heavenly quire ! 3 thousands , and ten thousands more of glorious angels , stand ' round thy high throne , and thee adore in songs at thy command . 4 hosannahs they sing unto thee , o lord , continually . they worship and most perfect be ; but , ah! what , lord , am i ? 5 a person of polluted lips ! how shall i then express the depth of thy immensity ? or thy infiniteness ? 6 i from thy presence cannot go ; what place , alass ! is there to hide from thee ? for i do know , lord , thou art every where ! hymn 3. on the immensity and omniscience of god. thy knowledge , lord , is infinite , there 's nothing hid from thee ; thou seest i' th' dark as in the light , our thoughts before thee be . 2 from sight of thy all-seeing eye , o whither can we go ! in all dark places thou dost pry , thine eyes walk to and fro . 3 thro' the whole earth , where can we hide ? o! whither can we fly ? lord , from thy presence ; for thou art far off , and also nigh ! 4 shall we to heaven mount alost , lo , thou art present there ? or , if we should go down to hell , ev'n there thou dost appear ? 5 yea , should we take us morning wings and dwell beyond the sea , there would thy hand have hold on us , and quickly with us be ? 6 nay , if we say , the darkness shall shroud us , lord , from thy sight , alass ! the thickest darkness is to thee , like to the light ? 7 yea , darkness hideth not from thee , but night doth shine as day : let 's praise thee then both day and night , and sing to thee alway ! hymn 4. the wisdom of god great . 1 we of thy wisdom will , o lord , not only speak but sing ; for 't is from hence that all true good to us , o lord , doth spring . 2 thy wisdom and most sovereign grace most gloriously do shine ; let us see it with open face , and praise that name of thine . 3 in thy own wisdom let 's be wise ; thy wisdom let 's adore , and trust in it , so shall we , lord , sing praise for evermore . 4 thy wisdom is a mighty deep , which angels do admire ; creation-work demonstrates it , redemption rises higher . 5 the wonder of thy wisdom , lord , and sublime rule likewise , t is o'er all things , and persons here , and marv'lous in our eyes . 6 all wisdom saints and angels have , from thee it doth proceed ; and from thy wisdom we receive all good things we do need . 7 of thy amazing wisdom then we 'll sing continually ; and unto thee , let foolish men for wisdom daily cry ! hymn 5. god's piercing eyes . 1 ye saints remember god always , remember he is nigh ; nay , with us all in every place , and on us sets his eye . 2 o lord , out of thy piercing sight there 's none of us can go ; thou seest in darkness as in light , and know'st all things we do . 3 't is thy most great and glorious name we should for ever fear ; and unto thee loud praise proclaim , when to thee we draw near . 4 always let us , o lord , we pray , set thee before our eyes , and never grieve thy spirit , lord , by our iniquities . 5 let 's have a reverent awe of thee , and always thee adore and worship in sincerity ; so sing for evermore . hymn 6. the power of god. 1 who knows , lord , what thy power is , thou glorious art in might ; can ought be hard for thee to do , whose power 's infinite . 2 thine arm of strength , most mighty king , both rocks and hearts doth break ; o god thou canst do every thing which thou dost undertake . 3 o'er men and angels thou dost reign , all things thou dost uphold ; thou art the strength of all thy saints , thy power 's manifold . 4 thou power hast for to create , redeeming pow'r's in thee ; thou soon canst too annihilate all things which we de see . 5 none can before thy power stand , nor thy dread strength resist ; thy pleasure thou wilt do we know , yea , all things thou dost list . 6 we of thy power therefore sing , and in thy might rejoyce ; to god our strength , our hope and trust , ; we will lift up our voice . hymn 7. god's mercy shining : or , the chanel of divine mercy over-flowing . 1 we of thy mercy , lord , will sing , o it is infinite ! of all our joys it is the spring , let 's praise thee day and night : 2 our miseries will have an end , but thy mercies abide from age to age , it does extend like to a swelling tide , 3 that flows over all banks and bounds amazing to behold ; o'er all the world thy mercy sounds , o it is manifold ! 4 but thy redeeming mercy , lord , we chiefly do admire ; christ is the chanel where it runs , to raise the wonder higher ! 5 o mercy then ! mercy we need , thy pardoning mercy 's sweet ! preventing mercy does , in christ , with every mercy meet . 6 sinners ! take hold of mercy then ! let saints mercy adore : and for thy mercy let all men sing praise for evermore . hymn 8. the covenant and faithfulness of god. 1 o lord we will exalt thy name , and to thee we will sing ; thy eaithfulness we will proclaim , from whence our hopes does spring . 2 we with our mouths will , lord , make known thy faithfulness always , o help us for to trust in it , and that too all our days ! 3 thy covenant thou wilt hold fast . as thou hast sworn of old ; thy promises from first to last , fulfill'd shall we behold . 4 the heavens they shall praise the lord , for wonders thou hast done ; and all thy saints , with one accord , shall praise thy name alone . 5 thy loving kindness shall not fail ; nor shall thy faithfulness : o sing unto the lord , ye saints , and him for ever bless . hymn 9. a sacred hymn on god's sovereignty . 1 thou lord who didst all creatures make , hast power to dispose of them , as seemeth good to thee : some therefore thou didst chuse 2 unto eternal life and bliss ; and others didst pass-by : or didst them leave to their hearts lusts , and vile iniquity . 3 if thou hadst left all adams race unto their evil way , and not have giv'n one soul thy grace , o who dur'st thee gain-say ! 4 or have charg'd thee to be vnjust , since all deserv'd to die , 't is infinite grace that any be saved eternally . 5 thou sendest thy sweet gospel light to this , and to that place , but dost to many lands deny the word of thine own grace : 6 and some that hear it never feel its power on their heart ; all is as thou art pleas'd to act , and sovereign grace impart . 7 we therefore lord exalt thy name , that with our eyes do see , since thou hast made the difference , all praise belongs to thee . hymn 10. god's glorious bounty : or , grace shining . 1 thy love , o lord , is very great to such vile ones as we ; such who lay dead in trespasses , are quickened by thee : 2 thy bounty to these souls of ours ; who can of it conceive : and those thou dost regenerate this bounty do receive . 3 't is they who are delivered from that forelorn estate , they once were in , when they lay dead ; whose souls , lord , did thee hate . 4 't is they whose souls united be unto thy self , o lord , and have communion too with thee , thou dost this grace afford . 5 death can't dissolve this blessed knot , this union doth remain ; at death such do to jesus go , death unto them is gain . 6 well may such say unto their souls , return unto your rest ! for they at death to glory go , and ly in thy sweet breast . 7 their they do joyn with seraphims , in blessed harmony , to sing and celebrate thy praise unto eternity . hymn ii. abounding mercy of god in christ. 1 is there no mercy in the lord ? sinners ! can you say so ? of mercy sing with one accord , mercy doth overflow ! 2 the waters which are in the sea , and light that 's in the sun , are fewer than thy mercies are , to sinners quite undone . 3 thy bowels yearn in thee to those who in their blood do ly ; if they believe thou wilt forgive all their iniquity : 4 but some will not thy mercy have , they it do not desire ; in the right way , do it not crave ; nor after it enquire ! 5 but you that see the chanel , where mercy doth sweetly run , exalt god's name , and sing his praise , until your lives are done . 6 at death and in the judgment-day , god's mercy you shall find , if you do leave your evil ways and have a changed mind . 7 redeeming mercy that is sweet , and pardoning mercy sure ; in christ all mercies joyn and meet , and evermore endure . hymn 12. the patience of god. 1 what wrongs , great god , hast thou long born ? ( conceiv'd they cannot be ! ) by daring rebels , who provoke thee unto jealousie ! 2 all evils done in every place , before thine eyes they are throughout the world ; and yet dostthou these foes protect , and spare . 3 tho' for man's treason down he fell , by thy revenging hand ; yet he lifts up his bruised bones his maker to withstand ; 4 and , though a feeble foe he be , whom thou like moths can crush , yet still against the bosses of thy bucklar he does rush . 5 o what vile monsters are mankind ! thus given to rebel ! strange thou dost not , lord , smite the earth , and send them quick to hell ! 6 man's sin for vengeance loudly crys , yet patience doth abound ; though justice crys , cut these trees down ! why cumber they the ground ? 7 thy patience still sorbears , we see , o it is infinite ! therefore of it , we , lord , will sing , and praise thee day and night . hymn 13. another on god's patience . 1 would man forbear to seek revenge on such a cursed foe , who strives to murther him each day , and work his overthrow ? 2 but god waves all advantages of wrath , and vengeance too ; and , by amazing patience , doth daring man out-do ? 3 the creature doth disdain his god , by whom he 's cloath'd and fed , yet god still spares this rebel worm , who by the devil 's led 4 to fight against his sovereign with cruel spite and rage ; yet god doth still forbear with him , even from age to age. 5 fools ask not where th' almighty is , but glory to him give : is not his being most fully prov'd in suffering thee to live ? 6 was he not god , he could not bear such weights as on him ly ; weak mortals soon are set on fire , and for revenge do cry ! ! 7 why should not patience make us sing , and god's great glory raise ? lord , let thy patience joyn with love towards me all my dayes ! hymn 14. on the birth of christ . 1 awake my soul , awake my tongue , my glory ' wake and sing , and celebrate the holy birth , the birth of israels king ! 2 o happy night that brought sorth light , which makes the blind to see ; the day spring from on high came down to cheer and visit thee . 3 the careful shepheards with their flocks were watching for the morn , but better news from heav'n was brought ; your saviour is now born ! 4 in bethlehem the infant lies , within a place obscure , your saviours come , o sing gods praise ! o sing his praise for ev'r . the second part , 25 th psalm tune . 1 heaven is come down to earth hither the angels fly , hark how the heavenly quire doth sing , glory to god on high ! 2 blest news indeed , be glad ; simeon o'ercome with joy , sings with the infant in his arms , ; now let thy servant die ! 3 wise-men behold the star , which was their stedfast guide , until it pointed forth the babe : let god be glorify'd ! 4 heaven and earth rejoyce o lord ! and shall not i ? christ he is born ! sinners sing praise , for you he came to die ! hymn 15. a sacred hymn of the deity of christ . 1 in thee , lord christ , we may thy father's glory see ; thou his brightness and glory art , the god-head dwells in thee . 2 thou art a man , yet god , in thee both natures meet , that god and man thou mightst vnite in vnion great and sweet . 3 thou must be man to die : sing praise , ye saints , sing praise ! christ must be god to satisfie ; his glory therefore raise ! 4 such that behold thee , lord , the father also see ; and such a mediator 't did behove thee for to be . 5 thou lay'st thy hands on both , and dost to each display most equally thy dearest love ; and therefore we must say , 6 there 's none , lord , like to thee for in thy self does shine all glories which the father hath , most sacred and divine . hymn 16. on christ's suretiship . 1 lord we 've run out , and wasted all our riches and our store ; and now our credit is quite gone thou wilt trust us no more : unless there is a surety found we must in prison ly , and bear thy dreadful wrath , o god , unto eternity . 3 and therefore jesus thou didst send , no friend had we to bring ; all good from hence , we may perceive , doth from thy bowels spring , 4 't was from the worth and dignity which in christ's person lay , he did god's justice satisfie , and all our debts defray . 5 o let men dread how they despise such sovereign grace and love , because mysterious in their eyes , and also far above 6 depraved reason to conceive , that such who guilty be , should , by another's righteousness , from sin and guilt be free . 7 all praise and glory unto god , and to the son whom we adore ; and to the holy-ghost likewise , be praise for evermore . hymn 17. a hymn of christs divine love , on cant. 1. 1 come near , come nearer yet and move thy sweetest lips to mine ? for why , thy love , who art all love , excels the choicest wine ! 2 like to an ointment poured out , is thy sweet name , and favour ; wise virgins compass thee about , for thy good ointments savour . 3 o draw me with thy cords of love ! we will run after thee ; the king into his chambers hath in love conducted me . 4 thy rays will make our faces shine , ; in thee we will rejoyce ; thy love is better far than vv ine ; thou art the vpright's choice ! 5 but o thou , whom my soul doth love ! tell me , o tell me soon , where feeds thy flock ; where is the place thou mak'st them rest at noon ? 6 why should i stray and lose my way ? till i at last do fall among thy fellows flocks ( as they themselves do proudly call. ) 7 o fairest one ; if thou wouldst know where thou shouldst feed and ly , the foot-steps of the flock will show the way asuredly ? hymn 18. the churches spikenard , cantic . the 1 st . sung at the lord's-supper . 1 our king doth at his table sit , and i that love him well , will pour my spikenard on his feet , which gives a fragrant smell . 2 my well-beloved is to me a bundle of sweet myrrh , and with me he 'll make his abode , and from me never stir . 3 my well-beloved is to me , like to the choicest vvines ; like clusters of the camphire trees , amongst the fruitful vines . 4 o blessed jesus thou art fair , my beauty is from thee ! nay , thou art fair beyond compare , and precious unto me ! 5 let others on their dainties feed , and drink the richest vvine ; my feasts doth all their feasts exceed , when thou say'st i am thine . 6 i therefore will commend him still , and sing unto his praise , he dy'd for me , therefore shall be my joy and song always . hymn 19. he 's white & reddy , sung at the sacrament . 1 my hearts delight is red and white , the lilly and the rose : so sweet a grace adorns his face ten thousand he out-does ! 2 was he all vvhite and was not red ? no sufferer for my sin ? my blood would rest on my own head and no joy have within ! 3 but my dear lord is vvite and red , this mixture pleaseth me ; cause for my sins he suffered who from all sin was free ! 4 what a reviving sight is this ? a righteous saviour ' s blood is th' bath of sin , the spring of bliss most pure , most sweet and good ! 5 his god-head , and his government are infinite and pure ; his eyes are like the eyes of doves , most constant , so indure . 6 his mouth is most exceeding sweet , he 's altogether so ; down from his head unto his feet all joys and comforts flow : 7 o sing his praise for this is he my soul doth so admire ; this is my friend , if you would know , this is my hearts desire ! hymn 20. deliverance from the pit : or , a hymn of thanksgiving for gospel salvation . 1 how great is this salvation , lord , which thou for us hast wrought , by jesus christ our dearest friend , who our poor souls hath bought . 2 thou didst behold us when we lay polluted in our sin ; and to wash us found out a way to make us clean agin . 3 we slaves of sin and satan were , and in strong bonds were bound ; and when we were near to the pit a ransom then was found : 4 thy son out of thy bosome came , our souls to set quite free : all praise unto the blessed lamb , and equal praise to thee . 5 of this salvation we will sing , and will with one accord praise thee , from whom all blessings spring ; ye saints praise ye the lord. 6 thou sav'st our souls , o save this land , great things , lord , thou wilt do ; o haste , o lord , quickly appear , salvation-wonders show . 7 our dust shall wake , our souls unite , and then our glory shine ; our happiness shall be compleat ; halelujah ; amen . hymn 21. christ at the sinners door : or , a song of praise on gospel salvation . 1 we , lord , of thy salvation have a declaration had : o sinners know christ can you save ; rejoyce in him be glad . 2 salvation is brought very near , your saviour also stands now , now , o soul , ev'n at thy door , o yield to his commands ! 3 open to him , before his wrath is kindled in his heart , and he from you , with angry frowns , for ever doth depart . 4 if it a little kindled be , o happy , happy he , thou holy one , who doth believe , and puts his trust in thee 5 ye saints rejoyce , ye interest have in this salvation ; what is it you can further crave ? sing praise to th' holy one : 6 salvation is wrought out for you , your god and christ adore , blessings of life do over-flow ; sing praise for evermore . 7 rejoyce that ye accepted be in your eternal head , and quickn'd are , ( and vnion have ; ) who once in sin lay dead . hymn 22. all glory to god and the lamb : or , a hymn of thanksgiving for the great salvation of christ . 1 now let us sing our saviour's praise , and spread his glory forth ; his honour wholly let us raise that shines through all the earth : 2 who would not fear and praise thy name thou great and glorious one , the world shall worship thee , to whom thy grace and goodness's shown . 3 all glory , pow'r , and honour , thou art worthy to receive , for all things , lord by the were made , and by thy pleasure live . 4 to thee of right , o lamb of god , salvation doth belong , wisdom and praise , glory and strength , and every sacred song . 5 't is thou alone salvation wrought , by thine own arm 't was done , sing praise ye saints whom he hath bought , praise ye the holy one. 6 blessing and honour , glory power , by all in earth and heaven to him that sits upon the throne , and to the lamb be given . hymn 23. gods glory display'd : or , a hymn of praise on the great salvation . 1 what was thy end , o holy god , in our salvation ; but thy own glory ? therefore we will praise thee every one : 2 shall man assume some part of it ? let him ashamed be ; all is of god , all is of grace , all glory be to thee . 3 thou art the sacrificer , lord ; the sacrifice also ; 't is thou that dost sprinkle the blood , and all things else dost do . 4 lift up ye saints , ( exalt on high ) your great redeemer , then he shall have the preheminence ; ye saints say all , amen . 5 sinners , will you praise christ's great name , to whom all praise belongs , and celebrate his glorious fame with joy in holy songs ? 6 of this salvation then take hold , and of it get a part ; then shall ye sing , and not till then , with grace in your own heart . hymn 24. the soul rent : or , glory shining . a hymn of praise on gospel salvation . 1 all the seraphick train above are stooping down so low , to learn o' th' church that mystery past ages did not know : 2 but now the vail is rent in twain , the mystery is vnfol'd , justice and mercy , reconcil'd we do herein behold . 3 we now in gospel days may go into th' holy place , and in a bleeding jesvs see god's reconciled face . 4 ye sinners then this saviour view , that for your sins was slain ; and this salvation slight no more , o look , view him again ! 5 how can ye see him bleed , and still retain your cursed sin ? how can ye see him call to you and you will not come in ? 6 o dearest jesus , if a taste of love be here so sweet , what will it be when we with thee , our dearest lord , shall meet ? 7 o let us sing to him always , and him in truth adore , for the day 's near when we shall be with him for evermore . hymn 25. wonderous grace shining . a hymn of praise on the great salvation of the gospel . 1 o glorious and most holy king , the mighty prince of peace , by thee alone , o holy one , from sin we have release ! 2 o wond'rous love , yea , love indeed , that thou so great and high , who didst proceed from god , should bleed , and for poor sinners dye . 3 the curse which was , o lord , our due thou also didst endure ; and in th' grave lay till the third day our freedom to procure . 4 o depth , o length , o heigth of love , none may compare with thee , so low to lye that we so high at last might raised be ! 5 shall sinners slight thy love , o lord , salvation not regard ? no sin like this so great it is , was ever known or heard . 6 ye saints love you your saviour dear , sing forth his blessed praise ; o love him , and to him adhere , and serve him all your days . hymn 26. look unto jesus . a hymn of praise . 1 look unto jesus , sinners look , if you 'd salvation have , who 's god , the saviour , and none else , ' 〈◊〉 only he can save . 2 come let 's rejoyce with heart and voice before our heavenly king , tribute of praise let us always unto our saviour bring . 3 before the wicked world and hell let us his glory bear ; lord manifest thy glorious name in wonders every where ! 4 let sinners not neglect , o lord , salvation thou hast wrought ; for all that do thou wilt o'erthrow , to hell they shall be brought . 5 o sinners look , and fall in love with jesus , him embrace ; with wonder now his glory view who 's full of grace and truth . 6 ye saints and saved ones rejoyce , and halelujahs sing ; for you are his and he is yours , o praise your god and king ! hymn 27. the joy of believers , and the misery of gospel-neglecters . 1 most free rich grace unmix'd and pure , the gospel does proclaim ; for which , o lord , we do thee praise and sing unto thy name . 2 come saints and sinners also taste this water , milk , and wine , wine without dreggs that off the lees our saviour did refine . 3 here 's pardon without wrath at all , white garments without stain ; a conscience purg'd we may have here , and ease that 's free from pain . 4 we may have all if we receive the blessed lord of life ; but such who do reject this grace shall one day meet with strife . 5 wrath will pursue such wretched souls , and they escape shall not ; but bring upon themselves sad woe , yea , an eternal blot . 6 stand not then to dispute and die , free offered grace receive ; then good and thankful you shall be when once you do believe . 7 and you will say , salvation's great , and the great lord adore ; and sing unto his holy name praises for evermore . hymn 28. christ exalted . a hymn of praise . 1 love ye your lovely lord , ye saints , his praises also sing ; we will exalt thy name , o lord our god , and heavenly king : 2 to him that angels do adore be glory , honour , fame ; 't is he that did salvation work , o sing unto his name ! 3 to him that wash'd us in his blood , who lov'd poor sinners first ; to him that was made sin for us , and was for us accurst ; 4 to him be glory and high praise , o worship at his feet ! in him god's attributes do shine ; in union also meet . 5 who would not honour and admire , who would not thee adore ; who would not this saviour desire , and prostrate fall before ? 6 come let us halelujah sing unto this mighty one ; let sinners bow unto this king who sits upon the throne ! hymn 29. christ glory . a hymn of praise on gospel salvation . 1 sing praises unto god the lord , and call upon his name ; among the people all declare his works , and spread his fame . 2 sing ye unto the lord , i say , ye sing unto him praise ; and talk of his salvation great , exalt your god always . 3 in honour of his holy name rejoyce with one accord , and let the hearts also rejoyce of all that seek the lord. 4 seek ye the lord , o seek the strength of his eternal might ; o seek his face continually in christ , for that is right ! 5 lord thou to us salvation hath made known most graciously ; but such who do the same reject most wretchedly shall die ; 6 wrath will break forth upon them all , that day is very near ; but all thy saints , when christ doth come , in glory shall appear . 7 ye righteous then in god rejoyce , for you most happy be ; salvation great your portion is , and you the same shall see . hymn 30. the saint indeed . or , a hymn of praise for sanctification . 1 ye that are holy and sincere lift up your hearts and voice , sing to the lord and do not fear , you cause have to rejoyce ! 2 the fruit of christ's blest death in you most plainly does appear ; yea , that you are god's own elect , and do his image bear . 3 you shall ascend god's holy hill who undefiled be ; and shall with him in glory dwell unto eternity . 4 but as for you that have a name , but live as others do , you , you shall fall and perish all , god will you overthrow . 5 when godly ones shall joy in bliss , and shall in triumph reign , you mourn shall in that deep abyss , god will your glory stain . 6 o glorious lord , thy spirit then pour out upon us , so that we may live to thee on earth , and unto heaven go ! hymn 31. a sacred hymn on ephesians 4. 4 , 5 , 6. sung at the administration of holy baptism . 1 to the one lord and father dear , who 's high , and above all , we will sing praise , and always fear , and on him ever call : 2 and the one lord we will adore , and divine worship give , and sing his praise for evermore , by whom 't is we do live . 3 to the one spirit , by whose pow'r all saints are born again , we will sing to , and every hour under his wings remain . 4 in the one faith we will rejoyce , th' doctrin of faith is one ; and in that faith we 'll lift out voice and sing till life is gone . 5 in christ's one babtism also let us establish'd be ; let these thy children find it sweet who now have obey'd thee : 6 let such who for another plead , which is , lord , none of thine , ashamed be , and see the need of further light divine . 7 in unity of thy one church let each of us abide , and find our comfort to be such which none meet with beside . hymn 32. the drooping spirit revived . 1 come drooping saints , ye princely ones , why do your heads hang down ? tho' some do sall yet grace shall you with glory ever crown . 2 christ bids you ever to rejoyce , again he says rejoyce , whatever sin or satan saith 't is your beloveds voice . 3 why should you be discouraged , o heirs os special grace , for goodly is your heritage , and pleasant is your place ! 4 what e'r discouragments you find , our christ can answer all ; his arms are ready to lift up when you are near to fall . 5 you have had a sweet taste of god , he is to you most dear ; you feel the power of his word , be therefore of good chear ! hymn 33. evil thoughts abhorr'd : or , heart-purity 1 thy power , lord , is very great , to change the thoughts of men ; if evil thoughts so hatful be , o let us loath them then ! 2 lord , who can all his errors see ? o cleanse my heart within from evil thoughts ; and keep thou me from all presumptious sin ! 3 o let not sin have power to reign in me at any time ; and so shall i be free from stain , and ' scape the greatest crime ! 4 blessed , o blessed , are the pure , who pure are still in heart , that keep thy testimonies sure , and from all sin depart . 5 they 're such that cause have to rejoyce , thy praises forth to sing ; and unto them new comforts shall from thee , lord , daily spring : 6 they pardon'd are , and in thy love do evermore remain ; they born are also from above , and shall with jesus reign . hymm 34. the backslider healed : or , mercy for backsliders . 1 believers now , what have you more , what have you more to do ; but to sing praise to god on high from whom your help doth flow ? lord thou art good , thy mercy 's great , thy promises most sure ; salvation 't is which thou hast wrought , christ's blood did it procure . 3 exalt by faith your lord on high , through off your vnbelief ; and trust in christ continually , in whom is your relief : 4 say there is hope , and we do come , we come , o lord , to thee ; for thou alone , lord , art our god ; thy name exalted be ! 5 backsliders then return and sing , god will forgive you all ; and make you so firmly to stand that you shall never fall . hymn 35. ephraim mixed among the people . 1 the pure in heart are thy delight o thou most holy one ! all they that do what things are right may sing thy praise alone . 2 all mixtures , lord , in doctrin and practice , thou dost hate ; ourselves , therefore , with wicked men let 's not associate ! 3 and so shall we , lord , with much joy our hearts lift up to thee ; and nothing shall our peace destroy whilst circumspect we be , 4 let such that mingle not themselves thy praises therefore sing ; and to thy people let men join in faith , to praise our king. 5 come out of babel then all ye , and be ye seperate ; depart all godly ones , and flee before it is too late ! 6 o touch not the polluted thing , and god will own you then ; and drink you shall of his sweet spring ; thus sing , and say , amen . hymn 36. the good samaritan . 1 sinners rejoyce who wounded be , your blest physician 's near ; his oyl will heal his wine will cheer , our sickness he did bear : 2 't is jesus praise that we will raise , and set his glory forth ; there 's none like thee , all saints do see , in heaven or on earth . 3 thy blood 's our balm , who hither came to die upon the tree ! therefore , o lord , with one accord we will sing praise to thee . 4 thou hast a salve for every sore ; didst dye that we might live therefore to thee continually all praises we will give . hymn 37. the voice of the turtle heard in our land. 1 thy precious blood was shed , o lord , my soul to purge from sin ; which purchas'd grace my soul to change , when shall this work begin : 2 in sinners hearts , o now impart , that grace that they may sing : o own thy word , most holy lord , our god , and gracious king ! 3 the harmless turtle 's pleasant voice is heard , lord , in this place ; let fig-trees put forth their green figs , young converts deck with grace . 4 arouse ! the summer will soon pass , your day of grace will end ; o come to christ , whilst he doth call , and does his love commend ! 5 see how the saints do bud in grace , what gracious fruits abound , upon this liberty for all to hear the joyful sound : 6 arise , you who yet sleep in sin , make hast to come and live ; so shall you sing and joyful be , and honour to christ give . hymn 38. — buy of me . 1 come buy of thee ? lord let us see what 't is that thou dost sell ! the pearl of price and paradice , o lord what tongue can tell 2 what their worth are ! what fool is there who doth refuse to buy ? a bargain 's here ! and 't will appear so to eternity . 3 this pearl excells the rich beryl , the onyx and the sapphire ; rubies so rare can't with 't compare , no , nor the gold of ophir ! 4 begone vile lusts as things accurst , let every soul then say , this pearl will i purchase and buy without further delay ? 5 let 's look about , our glass runs out , and take such good advice ; what e'r you see the terms to be , to come unto the price . sing , sing , god's praise , you ought always , who this rich pearl have ; what would you be , what more can ye ask , seek , desire , or crave ? hymn 39. a bleeding christ , and the bleeding heart . 1 how gracious and how good , o lord , art thou to sinners vile ; thy wrath is o'r , and thou on us , in jesus christ , doth smile ? 2 sing praise ye tender-hearted ones , lift up god's praise on high ; for you shall live for evermore , yea , live and never die . 3 behold a bleeding christ ! o see his side , how did it run with purple gore ? can ye forbear to grieve , shed tears , and mourn ! 4 but did he die , and in our stead , that we might never die ? o love this lord , and sing his praise ; and on him all rely ! 5 the fruits of christ's most blessed death in bleeding hearts appear ; their sins , they see , have wounded him , and pierc'd him like a spear . 6 they look to him , therefore they mourn , and yet by faith rejoyce ; they cann't but grieve , nor yet forbear to sing with cheerful voice . hymn 40. salvation great and glorious . 1 great god of love send from above thy new jerusalem ; on jesus's head cause thou to spread his sparkling diadem . 2 hosannah sing continually , our jesus comes apace ; bow every knee ; all hell shall flee from th' terror of his face . 3 salvation high is now come nigh , salvation great indeed ; o sinners see and saved be by jesus who did bleed ! here 's life for you that believe do , the terms most easy are ; o come and drink before you sink i' th' depths of hell's dispair . 5 sing praise , sing praise , god's honour raise , ye who salvation have ; dear jesus love , who from above came , your poor souls to save : 6 now heavens work is here begun , the work of singing praise ; most holy live , rejoyce and sing until you end your days . hymn 41. the tender hearts triumph . 1 you tender-hearted souls rejoyce , and sing god's praises forth ; in sacred hymns lift up your voice whilst here you live on earth : 2 for god bestowed hath on such new covenant true grace ; and though they grieve and sorrow much , they shall lift up their face . 3 't is a new spirit that 's in you , your heart of stone is gone ; the bleeding heart shall sweetly sing when this sad life is done . 4 sin unto you most grievous is , you cannot it endure ; o is it thus ! then sing god's praise , for you shall sing for ever . hymn 42. the broken and contrite heart . what cause of joy ye saints is here ? have you a tender heart ? lift up your heads , be of good cheer , you have a blessed part ! 2 o lord , we praise thy holy name , for offering precious grace ; let us believe , so let us sing , for happy is our case : 3 thy word can break a heart of stone ; o lay on gracious blows , to sinners , and also to saints , let 's see what mercies flows . 4 a broken heart 's a sacrifice most choice , o lord , to thee a broken christ , and broken hearts , most sweetly do agree . 5 thou wilt , lord , dwell with contrite ones , and them revive also ; upon the humble sincere soul all lasting blessings flow . hymn 43. righteousness of christ glorious 1 christ's righteousness imputed is , to those who do believe ; sing praise to christ , and god on high , who do this grace receive . 2 your wedding garment is a sign of joy and sweet delight . sing praise , o soul , for thou art his , sing praise both day and night . 3 in this may saints rejoyce always , 't is this doth make them glad ; such may rejoyce well all their dayes who are so bravely clad . 4 your wedding robes they are , o know , richly embroidered ; no princess was e'er cloathed so , that king did ever wed . 5 it shines bespangled with gold ; and such who have it on the king with joy doth them behold , and loves to look upon . 6 how may we then continually in jesus christ rejoyce , and sing to him melodiously , with heart and cheerful voice ? hymn 44. christ's penny : or , the laborours hire . 25th psalm tune . 1 lord , happy are those souls who hired are by thee ; for such that thou approvest of they saved all shall be : 2 great 's their reward , o lord , their penny is not small ; they have a god , a christ have they , a crown ; they shall have all. 3 then sing ye chosen ones , his praises now set forth ; and in his vine-yard faithful be whil'st you do live on earth . 4 rewards of grace excell such which from debts arise ; rejoyce in god ye saints always , and your dear saviour prize . hymn 45. the blessed death of the saints : sung at the funeral of that vertuous gentlewoman , mrs. elizabeth bright ; decemb. 7th . 1693 / 4. 1 thy word , o lord , doth comfort those who on thee do believe ; yea , all of them which thou hast chose thy quick'ning grace receive : 2 in life it is a cordial sweet , at death it doth revive ; such comforts do thy saints meet with , of which , death can't deprive . 3 a door of bliss to weary saints , thou art ( grim death ) become ; secured is the jewel safe , whilst earth the corps intombs . 4 by death the saints do enter rest , prepar'd ready above ; they are for ever swallow'd up in endless joys and love. 5 cease grieving then for such who are to blessed jesus gone : for they in glory shine most bright , and the blest prize have won , hymn 46. the happy death of the godly : sung at the funeral of mr. john tredwel . 1 return to god , your resting place , ye sinners with all speed ; by christ , to god you must approach , for all things you do need . 2 lord there 's no rest for to be found but in thy self alone ; high praises therefore forth shall sound to thee the holy one ! 3 we sing below , but they above , in crowns excelling gold , triumph in their eternal bliss , amazing to behold : 4 and each of them in majesty do represent a king ; yea , angels like in dignity ; and with the cherubs sing . 5 immortal robes they all have on , and shine like to the sun ; let us prepare to follow them ; our glass will soon be run , 6 death is a sleep , it is a rest from all our sorrows here ; let 's so believe that we with christ in glory may appear . hymn 47. psal . 17. 15. — i shall be satisfied when i awake with thy likeness . sung at the funeral of mrs. sarah wilmot , july 14th , 1694. 1 sing to the lord , ye saints of his , and thankfully express how sweet the due remembrance is of his pure holiness : 2 and tho' his anger burns apace it quickly slacks again ; but , lord , thy favour and thy grace for ever doth remain . 3 tho' sorrows lodge with us all night , which makes us weep and mourn , yet joy comes in at morning light , and makes a sweet return . 4 by death thy saints enter to joys prepar'd for them above ; and the're for ever shall remain in endless life and love. 5 o there they see as they are seen , with clear unclouded views ! o there they hear lord ! nothing else but sweet and glorious news ! 6 anthems of joy , of love , and praise ; and hallelujahs sing ; who would be fond of this vain world , from whence such sorrows spring ? 7 we shall be fully satisfied when we awake and rise : if we do sleep in jesus christ we then shall win the prize . hymn 48. salvation shining . 1 o sing ye now unto the lord , a new and pleasant song ; for he hath wrought by his right hand ; to him doth praise belong . 2 salvation is , lord , wrought by thee , from sin from wrath and hell ; o sing to god continually , all who in sion dwell ! 3 't is thee , o lord , we will exalt , and spread thy glory forth . for thy right hand hast wonders done for us , who dwell on earth : 4 our enemies that are within , thou hast , o lord , brought down ; our foes also , that are without , by thee , are overthrown . 5 ye righteous in the lord rejoyce , his holiness proclaim ; be thankful , and with heart and voice sing to his glorious name : for why , the lord our god is good , and he has heard our cry ? since on our side , lord thou hast stood , let 's praise thee till we die. hymn 49. the saints holy triumph . 1 tremble all you who rest upon a form of godliness ; as also ye that do draw back , whether 't is more or less : 2 rejoyce ye saints and do not fear you all are in christ's hand ; there 's not a soul that is sincere but firmly it doth stand 3 upon a rock , and ne'er shall move , nor fall away ; besure gods own elect , who do him love , all trials shall endure . 4 come saints , triumph , in the dear lamb , your lord , that once did die ; we that believe in jesus , have e'erlasting caufe of joy . 5 come law of god , what hast thou now of us for to demand ? thy curses all did meet in christ ; who in our stead did stand : 6 tho' such do sin thou canst not curse , thy curses all did ly upon our bleeding lord , when he , our sacrifice , did die ? 7 come justice , where is now thy charge ; what hast thou now to show ? we do to thee present the blood which from christ's sides did flow : 8 we shall not fall who do believe ; well may such sing ; therefore draw back they can't so as to die ; sing praise for evermore . hymn 50. the power of god's word . 1 o lord , 't is matter of high praise thy word on us doth shine ; but happy they who feel it's rays , and glorious power divine . 2 o let poor sinners feel their sin prick them , as with a sword ; and purge out all that filth within ; so will we praise thy word . 3 enlightened souls have cause to sing , who wounded were by thee ; true cause of joy to such doth spring ; for they , lord , he aled be ; 4 and now in robes , most richly deckt , they to the king are brought ; surpassing angels ; for have they a robe so richly wrought . 5 we therefore throw our crowns below thy high and glorious throne ; and must all say , both night and day , thou worthy art alone , 6 all glory , pow'r , and praise to have , by us for evermore ; thus let us sing unto our king , and him in heart adore . hymn 51. boundless mercy . 25th psalm tune . 1 of mercy still , o lord , we will together sing ; and in sweet sacred songs os praise exalt our glorious king : 2 let heart and tongue rejoyce , and say , who 's like to thee ? among the gods there 's none that thus forgives iniquity . 3 we did not pardon crave , when in our blood we lay ; but t' was free grace that moved thee our cursed debts to pay . 4 this pardon is this day to sinners offered ; oh! is there none that will come in , whilst out thy hands are spread ! 5 you happy are , o souls , who now forgiven be ; and also over a short time you will it clearly see 6 then sing , tho' in the dust you ly a little while ; a day is near that will make all god's pardon'd ones to smile . hymn 52. a call to obedience . 1 thine ordinances are , o lord , like pipes that run with wine ; we praise thee now with one accord , for each command of thine . 2 repent ! lord that 's a mighty thing ; but all who do not so , thou down to hell at last will bring , thy wrath to undergo . 3 believe ! and shall we saved be ? o blessed be thy name ! for works can't not us justifie , since sinners we became . 4 baptized be ! lord , some we fear do not of that approve ; but such who are indeed sincere , and truly do thee love , 5 will do whatever thou dost say ; each precept , lord , is right ; and that which some do loathe and hate , is lovely in thy sight . hymn 53. spiritual joy increasing . 1 rejoyce ye that in houses dwell , in houses made of clay , for bodies of the saints excell ; and shall another day : 2 lord shew unto thy servants all thy favour and thy grace ; and let us all both great and small behold thy glorious face . 3 o put great joy into our hearts , so will we sing to thee : and cause have more than those whose corn and wines increased be : 4 sing to the lord in righteousness , his face do you behold ; in christ , god doth you richly bless with blessings manifold . 5 god is your god , you vnion have through christ , with him again ; your bodies and your souls are his , so ever shall remaiu : 6 some joy in wealth , and others do in pleasures much abound ; but such alone have cause of joy that have gods favour found . hymn 54. christ our glorious shepheard . 1 now let us to our shepheard sing ; the shepheard of the sheep ; blessed are they , o happy souls , whom thou , lord , christ , doth keep : 2 and will you then go still astray , o see the shepheard's come , he 's come to seek , to search and find , and convey you all home . 3 he looks about to see if he can find you in his fold ; can you forbear for to return , how can your love be cold ? 4 ah! he for you did shed his blood , he for his sheep did die ! and will you , souls , your dearest lord again now crucifie ! 5 besides , the wolves are got abroad ; o hear your shepheard's voice ! o sing unto your blessed lord , and in him all rejoyce : 6 thou art our shepheard and our guide . our prophet , priest and king , thou art our life , our light our hope , from thee , our joys do spring . 7 then ravish'd with thy sacred love , let us thy glory raise ; and mount our souls to heaven above , in songs of lasting praise ; 8 and hate to mind a strangers voice , thy doctrine let us hear , that we with thee may all rejoyce , when thou , lord , shalt appear . hymn 55. truth in its primitive purity . sung at the administration of baptism . 1 now let us make a joyful noise , and sing unto the lord ; and in god's fear unite our joys , in him with one accord . 2 o blessed day , in which we see god's ordinance restor'd ! worthy art thou , o holy one , to be in truth ador'd . 3 dark clouds of error god expells , and truth shines splendently : o may our brethren be convinc'd , give them a seeing eye : 4 you that believers are , arise , and all baptized be ; take heed you do not still dispise christ's holy baptisme . 5 and let us all thy name , o lord , for evermore adore ; that thy blest institutions are restor'd as heretofore . 6 if every truth , lord , be by us receiv'd in sincere love , it will to us an evidence be , we born are from above . hymn 56. the spiritual bridegroom . sung at the administration of baptism . 1 how pleasant is it , for to see poor sinners to espouse their dearest lord , who only is , the blessed sharons rose . 2 't is thou , lord jesus , we do preach , and thy high praises sing ; thou art our all , all grace's from thee , and spiritual blessings spring . 3 o who is like , lord , unto thee , thy beauty doth exceed ; thy glory is so infinite ; in thee 's all things we need : 4 there 's none thy glory can set forth , yet thou dost condescend to be the bridegroom of our souls , our joy , our god , our friend . 5 be thou to us above all things ; chief of ten thousand be ; let those enamouring lips of thine , endear our souls to thee : 6 o let thy saints be ravished with love begetting love ; fill'd with eternal joys divine , which flow down from above ! 7 o then with angels sing the praise of your most sacred friend : the glory of christ jesus raise , until your days shall end . hymn 57. god's temple plants . 25th psalm tune . 1 ye sinners now come in , christ doth invite you all ; return , return , make angels sing , return for christ doth call : 2 lord , thou art merciful , most ready to forgive , and pardon all that come to thee , and do thy son receive . 3 o leave your wicked ways before it be too late ; for those that love , and live in sin , god's soul doth loathe and hate : 4 but like a cedar tree , which lebanon forth brings , the just shall grow and flourish so as laden palm-tree springs . 5 god's temple plants shall thrive , in his blest courts each one ; and still produce their fruitful juice , when they to age are grown : 6 still fat and flourish shall , god's justice to express ; our rock is he , most pure and free from all vnrighteousness . 7 then sing his praises forth , him honour and adore ; for you shall sing unto your king in glory evermore . hymn 58. christ's vine-yard . 1 thy vine-yard , lord , was purchased , though wild it once did ly , and barren was as any ground thou couldst on earth espy ; 2 but thou much cost and pains hast shewn , that it might fruitful be . thy sun doth shine , and rain doth fall on it continually . 3 all praise therefore to god on high , how great is thy blest care of thy own church , and every soul who truly are sincere . 5 we will the praises of the lord in sacred hymns set forth ; and sing therefore with one accord , whilst we do live on earth , hymn 59. the noble vine . 1 there is on earth a noble vine , set in a fruitful place ; the root thereof is all divine , and full of precious grace : the lord by his right hand did plant this vine , and vine-yard too ; and shines upon each gracious saint , and waters it also . 3 into this vine-yard we are call'd , whilst others idle stand ; lord help us all to work therein , and yield to thy command . 4 thy care is great of thy own church , thou watcheth it each day ; but fruitless trees thou wilt pluck up , and throw them quite away . 5 but wilt prune such that fruitful be , we therefore thee adore , and in sweet hymns we 'll sing to thee , now and for evermore . hymn 60. redeeming love. 1 o that we could as angels do aloud god's praises sing , for wonders of redeeming love , from whence soul peace doth spring . 2 shall man , who at the gates of hell did pale and speechless ly , not find a tongue , and time to speak ? stones against such will cry 3 then ye , th' redeemed of the lord , your thankful voices raise ; who reconciled are to god ; sing your redeemers praise : 4 sing and triumph in boundless grace , which thus hath set you free ; exalt , with shouts , all who believe , your god continually . hymn 61. spiritual food . 1 our souls o lord , think thou upon , let us not them forget ; but cloathe them , o most holy one , and give them precious meat : 2 thou hast thought on our souls , we know , when they in blood did ly , for which we praise thy holy name , and will thee magnify . 3 how good art thou , to us , o lord , what plenteous food have we ; our paths drop fatness , therefore we 'll sing praises unto thee . 4 put us , o lord in remembrance the needful thing to do ; that satan may never prevail , nor work our overthrow . hymn 62. the honour of christ's servants . 1 ye servants of the lord of hosts who in his vine-yard be ; who wait on him , and do his work , praise him continually : your honour , o it is not small , if you accepted are ; and servants be , then you are all both sons , and daughters fair . 3 nay he espoused hath you too , and in his bosome will lay you to all eternity , your souls with joy to fill . 4 o then sinners , yield now come in , christ's servants to become ; so shall you have all crowns at last , and shine in his kingdom . the praises of this , lord , let us with joyful hearts sing forth ; or there is none like unto him in heaven nor on earth . hymn 63. christ the saints strength and guide . o lord we praise thee with our souls , thou dost us warning give of the great dangers we are in , and tell'st us how to live. 't is thou must give us pow'r and might , that we may watchful be ; o give us strength , that day and night we may sing praise to thee ! our steps direct , our souls protect , and in the way of peace lead us , we pray ; then to th' last day our joy will never cease . thou wilt not leave us , we do know , to fight , or war , alone ; but wilt assist us evemore , until all danger 's gone . worthy art thou , therefore , o lord , of praise continually ; let all that is in us give thanks , and praise thee till we die. hymn 64. — but they said , there is no hope . 1 lord , of thy mercy we will sing , thy mercy hath no bound ; they that have said , there is no hope , thy mercy sweet have found . 2 sinners break forth , and in amaze , do you rejoyce , and say , there 's hope , that we may mercy find , believe , and do not stay . 3 o lord , thou dost not look that men should worthiness obtain : or some inherent fitness get , much less be born again , before that they take hold on thee , but presently believe ; and on thy promise lay fast hold , and ghrist strait-way receive . 5 glory to god , glory to christ , let sinners say no more , there is no hope ; let all believe , and thy free grace adore . hymm 65. the joy of believers : or , the power of christ's intercession . 1 thy intercession , holy lord , doth yield us joy and peace . we therefore will with one accord , from singing never cease : o thou exalted priest of god , who hast thy father's ear ; all glory and high praise to thee , who our sad shame didst bear . 3 thy blood was shed , and we are fed and nourished by thee ; and by thy intercession are preserv'd continually . we need not fear what doth draw near , because thy pray'r is heard ; for thou , according to our day , wilt strength to us afford . ye saints rejoyce , lift up your voice , christ is at god's right hand ; between god's wrath and our poor souls he evermore doth stand . hymn 66. christ's green pastures . sung at the administration of baptism . 1 o thou beloved of my soul , thou hast a people free from all baese mixtures . cleansed clean ; o tell me where they be ! 2 thou hast thy institutions , and ordinances pure ; thou hast thy churches ; tell me when , and where i may be sure ! 3 * thou hast enclosures rich and fair , peculiar to thy sheep , and dainty nourishing pastures , where thou dost them always keep : 4 thou in communion fold's them up , in winter keeps them dry ; thou giv'st them shades from heat of sun ; o tell us where they ly ! 5 o add more sheep unto thy fold , lord bring them in to thee ; that they thy glory may behold , and comforted all be : 5 then shall they sing sweet songs of praise , and taste thy choicest love ; and ravish'd be too all their days , with comforts from above 7 in height of sion , holy one , when shall we sweetly sing ; arise , o mighty prince of love , our joy and heav'nly king ! 8 bring in poor sinners far and nigh ; o fill thy house , o lord , and we will praise thee evermore , with joy , and one accord . hymn 67. the fulness of christ . 1 't is thy high praise , o holy one , that we will ever raise , 't is jesus we must magnify , and live to all our days : 2 thou art our life , our hope , and stay , our sun that gives us light ; thou art our prophet , priest , and king , praise is thy due and right . 3 lord , thou th' brightness of th' father art , the god-head dwells in thee , and of thy fulness dost impart to such , o lord , as we . 4 worthy art thou , all praise to have , who for our souls was slain : thou art exalted , and shall too , o lord , for ever reign . 5 vnto the father and the son , and holy-ghost , therefore , be glory , honour , and renown , now and for evermore . hymn 68. to praise god becomes the vpright . 1 come let us sing most joyfully to god of saving might , to raise the praise of the most high , becomes all the upright . 2 't is he that justifies all those who justified be : but woe to them who do oppose his grace , his grace so free ! 3 lord not to us , not unto us , but to thy glorious name , let all the glory be ascrib'd , the honour and the fame . 4 our works alass imperfect are , to jesus we must fly , his righteousness , and his alone is comely in thine eye . 5 't is faith whereby we do receive free pardon of our sin ; 't is he alone who doth revive that glorious work within : 6 but faith , which doth us justify , most precious fruit doth bear , true faith , o lord , doth purify the heart , if it be there . 7 ye righteous sing unto the lord , his praise do you set forth and let all people look to him , to the ends of the earth . hymn 69. the ax lifted up : or , wrath pursuing the sinner . 1 o lord , thou just and holy one , wee the admire do , that fruitless trees are not cut down ; this doth thy mercy show : 2 thy ax is up , o let us fear , for thou most righteous art , the natural branches did'st not spare ; therefore with trembling heart 3 let sinners now to jesus fly , that grafted they may be in him , by faith , most speedily ; no other way can we 4 find out , for to escape thy wrath ; and blessed be thy name , that ever jesus , out of love , to save us , hither came . 5 o let us all good trees be found , and fruitful also be ; make thou our hearts sincere and sound , and we 'll rejoyce in thee ; 6 and sing thy praise , o lord , most high , for we have blessings store ; help us dear god , our wants supply , and we 'll sing evermore . hymn 70. hallelujah : or , a hymn of praise on approaehing glory . 1 rejoyce ye gracious ones , for god hath heard your moans , and soon will ease you of your groans , sing then hallelujah . 2 your sins are pardon'd all , whether they 're great or small ; and you from god shall never fall , ttherefore hallelujah . 3 to free you from your fear the mighty god is near , to save you quickly he 'll appear , therefore hallelujah . 4 in god you interest have , o therefore to him cleave ; for he his saints will never leave , therefore hallelujah . 5 to comfort great and small , babel shall quickly fall ; and christ shall rule and reign o'er all , therefore hallelujah . hymn 57. treasure in earthen vessels : or , all glory to god. 1 o praise the lord , and look to him , sing praise unto his name ; o all ye saints of heaven and earth set forth his glorious fame : 2 for sending his bless'd word to us , and ministers to raise , to preach the gospel of his son ; sing forth his glorious praise ! 3 we have thy treasure holy one , in earthen vessels , so that all the glory might be known from thy own self to flow : 4 to thee of right , o lamb of god , all honour doth belong ; wisdom , and glory , riches and strength and every praising song . 5 most holy , holy , holy , lord ; almighty is thy name , which was before all time and is and shall be still the same ; 6 come ye redeemed of the lord , your thankful voices raise ; can you be dumb , whilst angels sing our great redeemers praise ! 7 come let us joyn with angels then , glory to god on high , peace upon earth , good will to men , thus sing eternally . hymn 54. grace abounding : or , a call to come to christ . 1 hark sinners , hark , the trumpet sounds a call ; it is to you to come to christ ; tho sin abounds , gods grace doth overflow . 2 rebels ! ( saith god ) lay down your arms , and make your peace with me ; o quickly uow , come in to day , you shall forgiven be ! 3 with thee , o lord , there 's mercy found , therefore we will rejoyce ; god's grace , in christ , it doth abound , sinners lift up your voice , 4 let pray'rs and tears flow out amain , be overcome with love ; and never cease until you see your hearts to god do move . 5 o quickly now , agree with him , whom you offended have ; o saints praise him , and sinners know 't is christ alone can save 6 your souls from wrath , o look to him ! so may you sing likewise so you shall have true peace and be free from all enemies . hymn 73. hell in a rage : sung at the administration of baptism . 1 lift up your voice , sing and rejoyce , where are your melting tears ; do sinners turn , and to christ run , this fills satan with fears ; 2 this makes hell sad , and heaven glad , the cherubs claps their wings ; there 's joy above to see what love is in the king of kings . 3 to such as we that chosen be , and called by his grace ; who nat'rally in filth did ly , condemn'd with adam ' s race , 4 but now made near and sav'd from fear , being rais'd up on high ; wash'd in christ's blood , enjoying good ; sing praise continually . 5 lord let these know , and away go assured of thy love : and live each day that all may say , they born are from above : 6 that we may see continually , cause to rejoyce in them , who being sincere , may each appear with christ , amen , amen . hymn 74. jacob's ladder , a type of christ . 1 behold , and wonder now , in a most sacred song ; o let 's exalt the name of christ , to him doth praise belong . 2 a wonder sure it was , and that in every part ; eor while he lay i th' virgins womb he lay in her own heart . 3 that son the mother bore , the mother did create ; both perfect god , and perfect man , a wonder to relate . 4 lord christ , thou art the priest , and yet the sacrifice : the altar too art thou likewise , and gift that sanctifies . 5 thou god-man , king , and priest , almighty art yet meek ; thou art most just yet merciful , the guilty cam'st to seek . 6 thou never any fail'd , that sought thee in their need ; thou never quencht the smoking flax , nor broke the bruised reed . 7 thy life a wonder was ; but here 's a wonder more , that thou that didst all kingdoms make , shouldst make thy self so poor . 8 and wonderful it is , [ that we this thing do see , ] that thou , who art all life and love , yet few , alass ! love thee . hymn 75. the wonder of pardoning grace . 1 come stand and wonder every one , the way that god hath found to pardon us , it is such grace , that strongly doth abound . 2 o let us of thy goodness sing , thy goodness let 's adore ; and with thy grace exalt our king , and saviour , evermore . 3 no pardon , lord , without thy blood , for us , be poured out ; by thy atonement , lord , thou hast our pardon brought about : 4 our surety for us did die , o blessed be thy name ! let saints praise thee with one accord , yea , highest praise proclaim . 5 sinners , your pardon ready is , o fall at jesus's feet ; believe on him , and you shall have his pardoning mercy sweet ! 6 o let us say , o lord , who is it that 's like unto thee ? who pardon 's all our horrid sins , yea , all iniquity . hymn 76. — i will put a new spirit within you : or , the vnwearied saint . 1 o blessed lord , what hast thou done ? what kind of spirit 's this , that makes thy saints with joy to run , and thy sweet lips to kiss ? 2 how heavy and how dull are they , ( how dead and carnal too ; ) who in the old nature do abide , they nothing freely do . 3 thy saints are fired with thy love , they in thy ways rejoyce ; and upwards they to thee do move , and sing with cheerful voice . 4 thy acceptation , lord , of us , thy love and favour kind , is wages now enough for us ; this blessing let us find . 5 and we will praise thy holy name , and sing continually ; and of thy ways ne'er weary be , until we come to die. hymn 77. god's court , or , glory near . 1 o all ye nations on the earth , praise ye the lord always ; and all the people every where , set forth his glorious praise . 2 for great his goodness is to us , his truth it does endure ; wherefore praise ye the lord our god , praise him ye saints for e'vr. 3 ye who attend god's holy courts , and in his house do dwell . sing forth his praise ev'n all your days , bless him with israel . 4 you 'll quickly hear the lord doth reign , look up , and ready be ; sion's in travail , and ye shall her blest deliverance see . hymn 78. god pardons , guides , and leads . 1 sing praise ye saints , ye pardon'd ones your debts forgiven are , for christ hath paid all you did owe , sing praise for evermore . 2 o sinners fly with speed to christ , god's wrath in him is o'er , take hold of him and you shall sing sweet praise for evermore . 3 and let the saints rejoyce in god , who cancels all their score : who heals all our infirmities , and doth our souls restore . 4 't is he that leads , 't is he that guides , and gives us rest and peace ; o sing christ's praise , you pardon'd ones , your joy shall never cease ! hymn 79. a call to young-men . 1 christ's trumpet sounds yet once again , to bring poor sinners in ; 't is voluntiers he would obtain , to fight against their sin. 2 and faithful laborours he likewise , is come to seek and call : young men , will you not now arise and enter's vine-yard all . 3 christ worthy is , his service too , will raise you very high ; his wages is a crown of life , his servants never die. 4 o then desert and come away , you serve a cruel foe ; desert his service now this day , and unto jesus go ! 5 when any come , the angels sing , it causes joy above ; all such who come may also sing , for they enjoy his love. hymn 80. vnity of saints . 1 unite our hearts unto thy self , o lord , we do thee pray , so will we sing thy praises forth , and walk with joy each day . 2 thy saints above united be , they sing with one accord ; o let us with one heart and voice sing to the living lord ! 3 singing together clearly shews , thy people should one be ; for vnion 's a most lovely thing , unite us all to thee ! 4 and in thy truth and bonds of love , let us all live together in vnity , so will we sing thy praises , now and ever . hymn 81. infinite mercy shining . 25th psalm tune . 1 t is of thy mercy , lord , of goodness and of love. that we will sing and magnify , which shines from thee above . 2 we may , lord , tell the stars , and sands on the sea-shore ; as we account thy mercies can , in number they are more . 3 in christ it is alone , the fountain's opened , from whence thy love and goodness flows , and all things we do need : 4 let sinners then believe , and know assuredly , thou wilt forgive and pardon all , their great iniquity . 5 and let thy saints rejoyce , and sing with joy of heart ; for they shall one day be with thee , and never more depart . hymn 82. the joy of repenting tears . 1 thy ways , o lord , most pleasant be , and all thy paths are peace ; the joys of all that cleave to thee , shall never , never , cease . 2 what are all sinful pleasures here , which are sinners delight ? will they not hateful all appear when sin is in their sight ? 3 more joy is there in leaving it , and in repenting tears ; then they do find who it commit , who filled are with fears . 4 o young-men , young-men , will you then christ's gracious call obey ? now hear his voice , i say again , no longer do delay ! 5 all praise to god , thus let us say and sing continually ; who says to sinners , hear and live : believe and do not die. hymn 83. the saints holy triumph in christ. 1 come le ts triumph in the dear lamb , our lord , who once did die ; we that believe in jesus , shall have everlasting joy . 2 come law of god , what hast thou now of saints for to demand ? thy curses all did meet in christ , who did our surety stand ? 3 come justice , where is now thy charge ? what hast thou now to shew ? we do to thee present the blood that from christ's sides did flow : o blessed wisdom infinite , 't is thou hast done the thing ; justice and mercy now are join'd , by our most blessed king ! 5 but woe to such who slight this grace , salvation to neglect ; god's attributes with angry face will them at last reject : 6 but saints shall hallelujahs sing , because they are set free ; their crowns they throw , lord , at thy feet , and will give praise to thee . hymn 84. christ a believers all : to be sung at the lord's-supper . 1 now unto jesus christ let 's sing , before him let us fall ; he that did our salvation bring , ev'n he is all in all. 2 thou art , bless'd one , the lord of lords , thou art the king of kings , thou art the sun of righteousness , with healing in thy wings . 3 thou art our meat , thou art our drink , our physick and our health , our light , our strength , our joy and crown , our glory , and our wealth : 4 to thee let us give all the praise , thy glory not divide , for god did thee to glory raise , to pull down all mans pride . 5 salvation is in thee alone , which is a thing not small : pardon and peace , and life 's in thee , o thou art all in all ! 6 what is there more , what can we say , but in the great'st amaze , even stand and think , and evermore sing forth thy glorious praise ? hymn 85. go thy ways forth by the footsteps of the flock . 25th psalm tune . 1 o thou my fairest one ! thus my dear lord doth speak , if thou wouldst know what thou must do , and with my saints partake ; 2 go up to yonder mount , thence look , and thou shalt ' spy , clear as the sun , what must be done , presented to thine eye ? 3 seest thou that folded flock , whose heart the spirit tyes ; whom gospel-order calls into distinct societies ? 4 seest thou the pastures where they do together feed ; the shepheard stands with both his hands to give them all they need ? 5 their magna-charta is my word ; that is thy guide ; o follow them that follow me , and thy foot ne'er shall slide ! 6 thither i 'll go , and join , there will i feast and feed ; there will i sing my shepheard's praise , who doth supply my need ! hymn 86. — my beloved is mine . sung at the receiving of the lord's-supper . 1 o blessed day when we can say , lord jesus thou art mine ! o blessed day when we can say , lord jesus i am thine ! 2 christ he is ours by deed of gift , and that 's a title good ; and saints are his by purchase right , he bought them with his blood. 3 say then , i 'll have no love but he , i like my choice so well ; and for his spouse he will have me , together let us dwell . 4 he feeds among the lillies white , there he doth most frequent ; amongst his saints is his delight , to smell their fragrant scent . 5 their graces are his sweet repast , their prayers and praises are a banquet to him , and their faith , is his delicious fare . 6 o let but me and this church be , a garden of delight ; to thee lord , and with one accord , we 'll praise thee day and night . hymn 87. a hymn of praise for the new-birth . 1 you that are born again rejoyce , and sing god's praises forth ; with one accord lift up your voice , who experience the new birth : 2 and you that are not yet renew'd , have cause to sing also ; because god doth afford the means , through which this grace doth flow . 3 but none sweet music truly make , in god's most holy ear , but such who do thy grace partake , and truly changed are . 4 o tremble then , and take good heed , rejoyce with holy dread ; lord whilst we live let 's sing thy praise , and do it as we read ! 5 ev'n sing with grace in all our hearts , and with thy spirit too , do 〈◊〉 inrich our inward parts , that we thy praise may shew . hymn 88. a hymn on preparation for ordinances . 1 't is thou , o god , that must prepare our hearts , we therefore cry , cleanse us from every sin and spot ; o purge iniquity ! 2 that we may hear and sing to thee ; so as with thee to meet ; and find thy word and ordinance to us exceeding sweet . 3 that so we may in thee rejoyce , and thy great name adore ; and filled be with inward peace , and praise thee evermore . 4 with faith and holy diligence , let us attend thy word ; that cause we may have still to sing unto our blessed lord. hymn 66. saints happy at death . sung at the funeral of mr. john loyns , june the 26th . 1692. who ( to the great grief of his godly friends ) was accidentally drowned in the river of thames . 1 the length of all our life and age , o lord , is in thy hand ; and we must go when thou dost call , and yield to thy command . 2 our days are few , and pass away , like as a shadow flys ; let 's ready be , o lord we pray , and shun all vanities . 3 when we go out of our own doors , none knows what may befall , or come on us , e'er we return ; life's uncertain to all . 4 o call to mind , remember then , our time consumeth fast ; why hast thou made the sons of men , as things in vain to waste ? 5 what man is he that liveth here , and death shall never see ? or , from the hand of the dark grave , can , lord , deliver'd be ? 6 but blest are they , who die in christ , their death to them is gain , their souls do go to paradice ; the wicked go to pain . 7 praised be god for jesus christ , who gives such victory unto thy saints , o'er sin and death ; sing praise continually . 8 the godly ly in a sweet sleep , they sleep in jesus do ; and no more pain , nor sorrow shall for ever undergo . hymn 90. saints the salt of the earth . 1 if saints , o lord , do season all amongst whom they do live , salt all with grace , both great and small they may sweet relish give ; 2 and blessed be thy glorious name , in england salt is found ; some savoury souls who do proclaim thy grace , which doth abound . 3 but o the want of salt , o lord , how few are salted well ; how few are like to salt indeed , salt thou thy israel ! 4 now sing ye saints who are this salt , and let all season'd be with your most holy gracious lives ; great need of it we see . 5 the earth will else corrupt and stink o salt it well therefore , and live to him that salted you , and sing for evermore . hymn 91. he is altogether lovely . 25th psalm tune . 1 the gracious words that drop from christ's sweet mouth so free , are sweeter than the sweetest myrrh , to all that do love thee . 2 in short , this is the man , he 's altogether love ; yea , altogether lovely's he to whom my soul doth move ! 3 you daughters this is he , this my beloved is ? no tongue can tell , no language can express that love of his ! 4 the drops that fill the seas , go , count them every one ? then join the number , if you please , of stars till there is none ? 5 to these , the sands , the hairs , and all things else in sight ; hyperbolize immensity , and run to infinite ? 6 this my beloved is , he is the total sum of all perfections , and the bliss of all that to him come . 7 then sing his praise , and say , thou dost excell all men ; thou fairer art than ten thousand ; hallelujah . amen . hymn 92. the rose of sharon . 1 sharon the garden of the world , the pride of palestine ; whose natural soyl more glory bore than solomon could resign ; 2 could ne'er produce so sweet a rose as i will be to thee . so fair a lilly never grew , sharon must stoop to me. 3 o blessed jesus , dost thou say , who 'll have a rose so sweet ! who will refuse our sharons rose , that knows its fragrant scent ? 4 upon the cross thou was distill'd , we taste in distillation , the sweetness of the absent rose , by faith and acceptation . 5 thou art a rose , my soul's repose , o let me never be , my dearest lord , a thorn to thee , who art so sweet to me . 6 thou art the lilly of the vale , a matchless purity . and i will sing thy praise since thou dost in my bosom ly . hymn 93. cant. 5. 12. — his eyes are like the eyes of doves . 1 i 'll tell you farther , that if such a person you shall see , whose eyes like doves are wash't with milk and water this is he ? 2 he hath a killing eye , 't will pierce through adamantine ears ; and wound a rock but with a look , and melt it into tears . 3 eyes that are clear and fitly set , that can see all things past , and all things present and to come , as long as time shall last : 4 whose eyes are pure , holy and chast , never defil'd with sin ; that never was in the least promp't to take foul objects in . if such a one you meet , whose eyes like flames , and lamps of fire strikes dead , and yet gives life thereby , t is he that i desire ? 6 this is the man i seek , and praise , all-seeing , and all-eye : tell him , if such a one you meet , 't is for his love , i die ! hymn 44. desert places rejoyce : or , babel's downfall ; the snare broken and we are escaped . 1 let england , and god's sion now rejoyce and sing christ's praise , on whom the gospel sun doth shine , and send it 's glorious rays . 2 sing to the lord , sing a new song , praise him all ends of th' earth . o let this isle of the great sea , his glory great fet forth . 3 let th' wilderness and desert place , lift up to god their voice ; and all that hear of thy great acts , in thee always rejoyce . 4 lord , we thy glory will declare , and praise thee in this land , for still to us thou art a friend , and up for us doth stand . 5 blessed are they who so do hear , that for the time to come they are prepar'd , and ready be , before their dismal doom : 6 god quickly will awake and rise ; ye saints rejoyce therefore ; great babel and all enemies , shall e'er long be no more . 7 in vain are all their hellish plots , thy name , o lord , we praise ; our king yet lives ; we saved are , iet's praise thee all our days . hymn 95. beautiful on the mountains : or , a ransome found . 1 how beautiful upon the mount , are they that peace proclaim , that unto rebels offer grace , in their great masters name . 2 that unto captives do declare glad tidings ; and do tell to sinners , there 's a ransom found , to save their souls from hell. 3 who say to saints , who interest have in thee , their dearest lord , thou wilt them all for ever save , such grace thou dost afford : 4 mount sinai's fiery law can't break a heart that 's like a stone ; the creature 's arrows at the walls of brass , in vain are thrown . 5 't is only pardon that doth melt , and love doth sinners draw : we therefore , lord , will sing thy praise ; grace do's exceed the law. 6 those who are , lord , united to thy self , in faith and love , may sing thy praise on earth , for they shall also sing above . hymm 96. a hymn out of the psalms , on the resurrection and joys at god's right hand . 25th . psalm tune . 1 when i awake , o lord , i shall behold thy face in righteousness , be like to thee , ev'n filled with thy grace . 2 full joys , lord are with thee , yea , in thy presence store , and at thy right-hand also are pleasures for evermore . 3 ye angels great in pow'r , praise ye , and bless the lord ; which to obey , and do his will , immediately accord . 4 yea , all in every place , praise ye his holy name ; my heart , my tongue , and all my soul , for ever do the same . 5 o praise jehovah all ye nations far and nigh ; for great his truth and kindness is , praise him continually . hymn 97. an hymn containing some select verse out of the book of psalms . 1 sing praises to our god , sing praise ; sing praises to our king ; praise to the king of all the earth , with understanding sing . 2 o praise the lord , praise him , praise him , praise him with one accord ; praise him , praise him , all ye that be the servants of the lord 3 my soul give laud unto the lord , my spirit do the same ; and all the powers of my soul , praise ye his holy name . 4 for he it is that doth forgive all thine iniquities ; 't is he that heals thy sad disease , yea , all infirmities . 5 come let us bow and praise the lord , before him let us fall ; and kneel to him , and him adore , for he hath made us all . 6 he is the lord , he is our god , for us he doth provide : we are his flock , he doth us feed , his sheep , he doth us guide . 7 i will give thanks unto the lord , because he hath heard me ; and is become most graciously a saviour unto me . hymn 98. a hymn on the answer of prayers , out of the psalms . 1 to render thanks unto the lord ; how great a cause have i ; my voice , my pray'r , and my complaint ; he heard most readily . 2 thou art my strength , thou art my stay , o lord , i sing to thee : thou art my fort , my fence and aid , a loving god to me . 3 what thing is there that i can wish , but thee , in heav'n above ; and in the earth , there is , lord , none like thee , that i can love. 4 for why , the well of life so pure , doth ever flow from thee ; and in thy light we are full sure , thy lasting light to see . 5 my heart would faint but that in me my faith is fixed fast ; thy goodness in the earth i see , which doth for ever last . 6 for this god is our god , and he will ever so abide ; he is our god , and he will be to death , our sure guide . hymn 99. another out of the psalms . 25th psalm tune . 1 the lord is my defence , my joy , my mirth , my song ; he is become my saviour , and my strength , and refuge strong : 2 thou art my god , and i will render thanks to thee : thou art my god , and i will praise thy mercy towards me . 3 o come let 's to the lord , sing forth with joyful voice ; to th' rock of our salvation , : le ts make a joyful noise 4 let us with holy songs , approach his presence now ; and sing sweet psalms triumphantly , before him let us bow . 5 for he will quickly come and judge the earth will he , yea all the world 't is he will judg , in truth and equity . 6 o give thanks to the lord , for gracious is he because thy mercy , does endure for ever we 'll praise thee . hymn 100. a sacred hymn on sanctification . 1 the fountain of true holiness jehovah is most high ; his name it is that we will bless and praise continually . 2 thou perfect art , in holiness , thy glory let us see , o shine upon us more or less , and make us all like thee , 3 amongst the fruitful lillies thou dost love lord christ to feed , o let my soul a lilly be , no more a stinking weed . 4 until the glorious morn shall break , and shadows flee away , o let the glorious lord be mine , and i ne'er from him stray ! 5 o perfect , lord , thy handy-work , begun upon my heart ; make up thy jewels ; unto me , thy image , lord , impart ! 6 turn , my beloved , to my soul , be like a pleasant roe ; and i will sing thy praises forth , whilst in thy paths i go . 7 a glorious day is coming on , when all shall sing thy praise ; 't is holiness thou wilt perfect , in those longed for dayes . the end of the first century . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a47612-e12860 * au. mr. m. mr. d. psal . 103 21. psa . 117. 1 , 2. psal . 47. 6. psal . 135. 1. psal . 103. 1. 2. psal . 95 6. psal . 118. 21. psal . 28 6. psal . 59. 17. psal . 73. 25. psal , 36. 9. psal . 25. 13. psal . 48. 13 psal . 118. 13. 14. psal 95. 1 psal 96. 13 ver . 29 hear the church, or, an appeal to the mother of us all to all the baptized believers in england, exhorting them to stedfastness in the truth, according to the scriptures : together with some farther considerations of seven queries, sent to the baptized believers in lincolnshire, concerning the judge of contriversies in matters of religion : in three parts / by thomas grantham. grantham, thomas, 1634-1692. 1687 approx. 133 kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from 31 1-bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; 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(eebo-tcp ; phase 1, no. a41780) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set 51668) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, 1641-1700 ; 815:14) hear the church, or, an appeal to the mother of us all to all the baptized believers in england, exhorting them to stedfastness in the truth, according to the scriptures : together with some farther considerations of seven queries, sent to the baptized believers in lincolnshire, concerning the judge of contriversies in matters of religion : in three parts / by thomas grantham. grantham, thomas, 1634-1692. [4], 60 p. [s.n.], london : 1687. reproduction of original in the university of illinois (urbana-champaign campus). library. "hear the church, &c or, an epitome of the chief controversies between papists" ... london, 1687 has special t.p. and forms the third part. created by converting tcp files to tei p5 using tcp2tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between 1473 and 1700 available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the 25,363 texts created during phase 1 of the project have been released into the public domain as of 1 january 2015. anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. 5% (or 5 pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of 100 instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level 4 of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p5, characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng baptists -doctrines. theology, doctrinal -early works to 1800. 2007-11 tcp assigned for keying and markup 2007-11 apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images 2007-12 emma (leeson) huber sampled and proofread 2007-12 emma (leeson) huber text and markup reviewed and edited 2008-02 pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion hear the church : or , an appeal to the mother of us all. being an epistle to all the baptized believers in england ; exhorting them to stedfastness in the truth , according to the scriptures . together with some farther considerations of seven queries , sent to the baptized believers in lincolnshire , concerning the judge of controversies in matters of religion . in three parts . by thomas grantham . and they shall turn away their ears from the truth , and shall be turned into fables , 2 tim. 4. 4. but i will shew thee that which is noted in the scripture of truth , and there is none that holdeth with me in these things but michael your prince , dan. 10. 21. london , printed in the year , 1687. to the reader . there is nothing , which men sincerely religious , do more heartily desire , than that all men were so too ; and because they are fully satisfied that they are in that very way which most truly leads to life , they therefore strive that all may know it and walk in it . and truly this is my case , my hearts desire and prayer to god for all men is , that they may be saved . and as i believe it hath pleased god to shew me the path of life , i cannot but do my best to shew it to others ; for as some by their labours , have been helpful to me , so i hope mine may be helpful to others . when i call the primitive christian church at jerusalem , the mother of us all , i allude to that place , gal. 4. 26. interpreters , ( so far as i have observed ) take jerusalem there , for the gospel catholick church ; now this church had its beginning , and this beginning was at jerusalem ; and because in the progress of christianity in the world , for near one thousand seven hundred years , there has abundance of errors crept in , and much truth in the antient simplicity of it rejected , i think it highly rational , that ( all prejudice being laid apart ) men should seek with the greatest diligence , for their greatest security , into the state of christs gospel-church , as by himself established ; for whatsoever has not been planted by our heavenly father , is nigh to its being rooted up . god almighty direct us all , is the hearty prayer of thy friend , thomas grantham . let the reader further take notice , that these papers were originally written upon several occasions ; otherwise some things repeated , would have been otherwise . let thy discretion bear with this . hear the church . the first part . containing , by way of preface , a particular consideration of the state of the first christian church at jerusalem , and the reasonableness of appealing to her , as the mother of us all. it is evident to all such as have conversed with the histories of the ages , which have been since the coming of our lord , to make known and establish all things in the kingdom of grace , in the first church at jerusalem ; that there hath been great striving among the christian churches for some honour and prerogative above the rest . sometimes the church at alexandria , sometimes the church at constantinople , and especially the church at rome , pressing very hard for precedence of honour , and preheminence of power ; few minding the poor afflicted church at jerusalem , the true mother of all true christian churches ; when yet the holy ghost hath left a high commendation upon those who do follow her , both in the effectual reception of the gospel , not as the word of such or such a man , ( though preached by apostles ) but as it is in truth the word of god , 1 thess . 2. 13 , 14. and also ( not in persecuting , but ) in suffering like things of their countrey-men , as they did of the jews . and we desire , and hope that there may be yet , all due consideration had by all christians in these days , of the heavenly frame and holy walking of that mother-church . unto whom was committed , in the first place , the principles of the oracles of god ; unto whom our dearest lord was a personal minister , and did actually dispense to , and communicate with them , in the divine mysteries or ordinances of the christian religion ; upon whom was poured the most excellent gifts and graces of the holy spirit of promise . it was this church , from whom ( according to the prophets ) the law of christ should first go forth , isa . 2. 3. mich. 4. 1 , 2. here was the house of the lord established in the top of the mountains , and exalted above the hills , that all nations might flow unto it : an honour not given to other churches , 1 cor. 14. 36. what , came the word of god out from you ? no , this was the glory of another , for out of zion shall go forth the law , and the word of the lord from jerusalem . which by special order from christ was fulfilled , when he gave commandment to his apostles , that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name , in all nations , beginning at jerusalem , luk. 24. 47. and here it was that the spirit gave utterance unto the apostles , to preach in all languages , that then some of all nations ( who were at that very time at jerusalem ) might hear from thence the joyful sound of the gospel , and consequently , keep the same holy doctrine in all ages and nations , as it was there delivered , and confirmed by divers signs and miracles , and gifts of the holy ghost , math. 28. 19 , 20. heb. 2. 4. act. 2. forasmuch then , as all churches , in all ages and nations , are indispensibly bound to follow this church , in the observation of all things whatsoever christ commanded them ; we hold our selves concern'd , at this time , to declare our unfeigned assent unto the truth of the gospel , as it was here delivered ; and our humble resolution to keep the ordinances of christ , as they were here practised ( not doubting but the same was received in all churches at the first ) being confident of this very thing , that a safer way cannot be found for the security of our souls , from the manifold errors , which since the plantation of this church , have been obtruded upon the consciences of men , in most parts of the christian nations . to the intent then that we may avoid error , and cleave to truth , we shall consider particularly ( though very briefly ) the frame of this heavenly building , in respect of her foundation , her form of government , and the way of her worship , in order to her perfection . and first , we find her foundation-principles to consist in six particulars , called , the beginning of the word of christ , which articles are therefore called the foundation , because of the relation they have to christ , who is a foundation to his church , as held forth in his own doctrine , and other foundations than christ so held forth , can no man lay . of such importance are these sacred principles , that we find the ancient christians used to call them the christian catechism . chrysostoms , testimony is this ; that all these are fundamental articles ; that is , that we ought to repent from dead works , to be baptized into the faith of christ , and be made worthy of the gift of the spirit , who is given by imposition of hands ; and we are to be taught the mysteries of the resurrection and eternal judgment . this catechism , saith he , is perfect . and indeed in the whole new testament , we meet not with such an excellent epitome of the christian doctrine as in this place , which was written to this mother-church . 't is true , we have some mention of a form of doctrine delivered to the believing romans : and timothy is commanded to hold fast the form of sound words , which he had heard of st. paul ; christ is said to be the apostle and high priest of our profession , the author and finisher of our faith , we are willed to contend for the faith once delivered to the saints . but none of these places do shew us , as the text under consideration , what this form of doctrine , this form of sound words , this profession , and this faith was , in respect of the composition , and foundamentality of them ; nor can there any thing be assigned , that is so properly the analogy or rule of faith , as these principles of catechism . happy had it been , if all christian churches had held fast this catechism , though no more had ever been composed ; unity in the truth would have been better maintained by this one , than by so many as are now extant . and sure this being of divine composure and authority , the principles of the oracles of god , the beginning of the word of christ , must needs outweigh all others , being but of human composition . to begin with the first principle of this church , let us consider . 1. repentance from dead works . we are first to consider why repentance is put in the first place , even before faith ; sure it is because no unrepenting sinner can have the faith of justification ; therefore this principle of the christian faith must follow repentance . there is indeed a faith ( which we may call the faith of mankind ) to believe there is a god , that will both punish sinners , and reward the righteous , and this faith must needs precede repentance , heb. 11. 6. this repentance , as it was a principle of this mother-church , comprehends three things , a true sence of sin , in the exceeding sinfulness of it ; in which respect it is said , they were pricked at the heart , and cried out , or said , men and brethren , what shall we do ? act. 2. 37. which is accompanied with godly sorrow , and with amendment of life , without which , repentance is rather to be repented of , than to be esteemed any part of the foundation of christian religion ; repent ye therefore , and be converted , that your sins may be blotted out . act. 3. 19. without which repentance , there is no remission . luk. 13. 5. except ye repent , ye shall all perish , saith our saviour . how blessed had it been , if this doctrine had been preached , and men brought to the obedience of it , before they had been admitted to membership in the church of christ ? the not keeping to this rule , has filled all national churches with unregenerate , unconverted persons , to the scandal of the christian religion . 2. of faith towards god in this mother-church . the excellency of the faith of this mother-church , appeared in these things : that they gladly received the word of the gospel of their salvation . act. 2. 40. to the illumination of their souls , and the expelling the darkness of errour and unbelief ; by this faith they had their hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience , and their confidence in god had a great recompence of reward , in the love and expectation of which , they willingly endured a great fight of afflictions , whilst they were made a gazing-stock , both by reproaches , and suffering the spoiling of their goods with joyfulness ; and were willingly companions with , and charitably compassionate towards , those that were in bonds for righteousness sake , working the work of god , ministring to the saints , labouring in love : all which are arguments of true and lively faith. heb. 6. 10 , 11. heb. 10. 32 , 33 , 34 , 35. he that reads and considers this excellent epistle , written to this mother-church , wherein we may be sure no new doctrine is delivered but the same corroborated which they had received , shall find that the true knowledge and belief of christ was amongst them , in respect of his divinity , chap. 1. in respect of his humanity . chap. 2. in respect of priestly office and sacrifice , with all other offices to which he was appointed of god , in the residue of the epistle , of which we cannot now speak particularly . 3. of the doctrine of baptism in this church . the lord christ had fully taught the guides of this mother-church the doctrine of baptism both by word and example ; and thereby had informed them of a three-fold baptism . the first delivered by precept , himself making the people disciples , by teaching them to repent and believe the gospel , and then appointing his disciples to dip them in the river , in which respect it is said that jesus made and dipped ( or baptized ) more disciples than john , mat. 4. 17. john 4. 1. john 3. 22. his own example being an unquestionable rule for the manner of baptizing , he being dipped of john into jordan , as the greek hath it , mark 1. 9. and then coming up out of the water . and of this whole church it is said , their hearts were sprinkled from an evil conscience , and their bodies washed with pure water . for baptismal water is therefore purer , because it is sanctified for our religious use , both by the person of christ , and by the word of god. and of this church , was first required , that every one of them should repent , and then be baptized ; and of them it is also said , that they that gladly received the word preached by st. peter , were baptized , acts 2. 38 , 40. they were also instructed concerning the baptism of the holy spirit ; it being the promise of the father made to all the called of the lord , and was particularly applied to them , and poured upon them in the way of faith and obedience . to be willing to be baptized with afflictions for christ and the gospels-sake , they were also taught by our blessed saviour in his discourse with some of his disciples , and by his own sufferings , luke 12. 30. of which they were also partakers , heb. 10. 32. as also all that will live godly in christ jesus must expect the same . and it would be considered by what rule any man can take upon him to make baptism the first principle , seeing christ himself has made it the third principle ? and by what rule any man can call sprinkling baptizing ? dare they speak as they act ? that is , dare they say , i sprinkle thee in the name of the father ? &c. would not their conscience flie in their face if they should so speak ? and yet behold , they prevaricate in action , and lye in expression in that which they call their baptism ; god will surely send the proudest prevaricators in this case a quo warranto for their presumptuous dealing herein . of the laying on of hands in this church . there are two great blessings belong to all true christians , remission of sin , and the gift of the holy spirit ; the first is consigned to then in sacred baptism , the second in prayer , with the laying on of hands , in which way this mother-church received this blessing , as is evident from the ennumeration and order of the principles of her catechism , and also from this testimony , that great grace was upon them all , acts 4. 33. as also in that it is expresly said , that this church continued stedfastly in the apostles doctrine , a principle whereof is prayer with laying on of hands ; and from this church this doctrine and holy practice was carried by the apostles to samaria , acts 14. for it is not to be imagined they would there innovate , a practical principle , which had not first been taught in the church at jerusalem . but god bearing witness to this service of prayer and laying on of hands at samaria , with the same blessing of the holy spirit , fore-received at jerusalem , confirms it as an acceptable and needful service for all churches . and accordingly it was received in the times next succeeding the apostles days , as many witnesses testifie , amongst whom tertullian thus , dehinc manus imponitur , &c. after baptism the hand is imposed by blessing , calling and inviting the holy spirit . tunc ille sanctissimus , &c. then that most holy spirit most willingly descends from the father upon the bodies which are cleansed [ meaning in baptism ] and blessed . of the resurrection of the dead taught and believed in this mother-church . in this church it was where the apostle gave witness with great p●wer of the resurrection of the lord jesus , in whose resurrection assurance , yea very full assurance is given to all men , that there shall be a resurrection of the dead , both of the just and the vnjust . it was here that our saviour shewed himself alive after he had been dead , by infallible proofs , being seen of his disciples forty days , conversing with them of the things concerning his church and kingdom . it was here that many dead bodies of the saints did arise , and come out of their graves , and went into jerusalem , and appeared to many , after christ was risen ; which was a full proof , that the resurrection is of the same numerical bodies which are laid in the graves , disrobed only of mortality and all imperfections . and this is that resurrection of the dead here called a principle of christ's doctrine , and of the foundation of this mother-church . of the eternal judgment believed by this church . it was to the guides of this church to whom our saviour first made known this great priviledge , that they should sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of israel , at that time when he should sit upon the throne of his glory , mat. 19. 28 , who also is appointed of god to be the judge of quick and dead , act. 10. 42. which great article is here recounted among the principles of catechism , heb. 6. 2. and called the eternal judgment , not only for that it is the last judgment , but because the effects of it shall be perpetual , the pains to be imposed in this sentence of judgment shall be of eternal duration to all wicked men , who have contemned the gospel of their salvation , and judged themselves unworthy of eternal life , even that life which then shall be given to eternity , to all such as have held fast the beginning of their confidence , and the hope of this their rejoycing stedfast unto the end , heb. 3. 14. as therefore the tares are gathered and burnt in the fire ; so shall it be in the end of the world. the son of man shall send forth his angels , and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend , and them that do iniquity : and shall cast them into a furnace of fire ; there shall be wailing , and gnashing of teeth . then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their father . who hath ears to hear , let him hear . matth. 13. 40 , 41 , 42 , 43. lo the eternal judgment taught by christ's own mouth , let all men be admonished to prepare for this judgment , for the coming of the lord draws nigh . of the farther order and manner of worship used in this mother-church . this did especially consist in frequently assembling themselves together , to teach and preach jesus christ , acts 5. 42. or for the ministring of the word of god and prayers , acts 6. 4. in which we find no liturgies , or forms of prayer devised or imposed by the apostles , but these services were performed by the aid of the holy spirit , which as they were given for the work of the ministry , so 't is evident they have a remanency in the true church till the whole be perfected , eph. 4. and it is this blessed spirit which helps the church to make ▪ intercession according to the will of god , rom. 8. 27. they were all very frequent at the lord's table breaking the sacred bread , in remembrance of the lord christ , giving thanks to god by him , acts 2. 41 , 47. nor needed they any mass-book or common-prayer-book , to direct them in either : christ's own ▪ institution of his holy table , and the holy prayer which he had taught his disciples , with other heavenly rules contained in the holy scriptures , was abundantly sufficient , and are so still , to every faithful man of god [ and minister whom god and his church hath called to that work ] to furnish him to every good work . it is also excceding plain that the holy table of the lord is here called the breaking of bread. and therefore , though that holy bread and wine be the body and blood of christ , yet they are these , in such sort , as they are also the bread of the lord , and the cup of the lord , 1 ▪ cor. 11 ▪ 27. and forasmuch as the apostle here , and in the next verse , does expresly call the same things , by these different titles , the body and the blood : the bread and the cup : we must of necessity take him to speak figuratively in one of these , but in the latter , to wit , bread and the cup , we have no figure ( save that the wine in the cup is taken for the cup , which is an usual form of speaking ; ) and therefore of necessity these words , body and blood , must be understood to be mystically , spiritually , or figuratively in the bread and wine , and not the bread and wine to be mystically , spiritually , or figuratively , in the body and blood of christ . it is also as certain that the whole church ( this mother-church , acts 2. 42 ▪ ) did then receive both the bread and cup of the lord , as that any one of them did partake of both , the whole service being expressed by a synecdoche , a part for the whole , which yet will better appear , in that this ordinance ought to be received by every recipient , as he is a member of christ , not as he is a minister : 't is true , as i am a minister i dispense this mystery , but i receive it as a member , saith st. paul ; for ye being many , are one bread , and one body . for we are all partakers of that one bread. it was unto this church , or the guides of it , unto whom our blessed saviour delivered that mystical doctrine , which offended so many of his disciples , john 6. 53. verily , verily , i say unto you , except ye eat the flesh of the son of man and drink his blood , ye have no life in you , which yet cannot be rightly understood of a corporal eating his flesh , and drinking his blood , because he expresly says , verily , verily , i say unto you , he that believeth on me , hath everlasting life , verse 47. and it is certain there were many that did truly believe on him at that time , among whom s. peter , and the rest that stood by him , when so many forsook him . now these things must all be true . 1. that none of christ's disciples had life in them at that time , but such as did eat the flesh , and drink the blood of christ . 2. that s. peter and the rest of the faithful , had eternal life in them at that time ▪ 3. that the lord's table was not yet instituted ; and therefore from these premises it follows that our saviour speaks not here of his disciples now eating and drinking his flesh and blood in the lord's table , and therefore cannot with any shew of truth or reason , be understood of eating his flesh , and drinking his blood carnally , or corporally , but spiritually , even by believing in him . of the several orders of ministry in this mother-church . this church was endowed with a three-fold order of ministry ; 1. messengers or apostles , whose work was more especially to gather , constitute , and take care for the church in general . 2. elders , whose work was especially to feed the flock committed to them in particular . 3. deacons , whose work more especially was to take care of the poor , and to distribute the alms of the church to the ends for which they were given , and consequently all churches ought to maintain this order of ministry , unless they can shew that god has repealed this ministery , in part or in whole . 't is true , some things were pertinent to the apostles here , which were temporary and extraordinary , which churches in after-ages are not to expect ; but it is also true that some things were ordinary , and fixed in that office , for the continual use of the church , and therefore to remain for ever viz. their care for all churches , their travels and labours to plant and settle new churches , their withstanding false apostles , as themselves are true apostles . their authority to appease strife and contention which may arise among particular pastors and churches , which things being demonstrated in our christianismus primitivus ( to which we refer ) we shall not here enlarge . this part of the apostolical office , was conferred on many in the apostles days , who were also entituled the angels of the churches , rev. 2. 1 , &c. which in english , is , messenger of the churches . of this order was james the lord's brother in this church at jerusalem , and such were timothy , titus , sylvanus , andronicus and junia , with others . a ministry as needful as any , both for the unity of churches , and the management of the most important affairs of the gospel , both in the church and in the world , as experience may convince men if nothing else will do it . and here it were easie to bring in the full test of the best antiquity , but this letter will not bear it . of the discipline or government of this mother-church . it was unto the guides of this cuhrch to whom our blessed lord first gave rules for the government of his church , mat. 18. whence we learn that in cases of personal trespasses , and sins of infirmity or weakness , all possible love , patience and charity , should be exercised by one christian towards another , and the offender , upon confession of his fault , forgiven , unto seventy times seven offences : so abundantly should charity appear among the members of christ . but it was also in this church where wilfull iniquity was punished with great severity , as the hypocrisie and deceit of ananias and saphira ; and the like severity was shewed against simon magus for his pride and covetousness , in aspiring to a ministry for which he was not qualified , and to which he was not called by heaven's donation and due vocation from the church , without which , woful experience hath taught the chrian nations , that it is in vain by money , or for mony to make men ministers in the christian church . in this church was held the first and best of general councils , for setling the churches in peace , when troubles did arise among themselves , by means of false teachers , &c. and because the churches in all ages and nations , may have perpetual need of such helps , it shall not be amiss that we consider the quality and authority of such assemblies , lest otherwise we be abused by usurpation and tyranny : and first of the occasion of the calling this present assembly , acts 15. this assembly was called upon the greatest occasion that ever was , namely , the repealing , or rather shewing the repeal , of many divine ordinances , and freeing the christian church from their obligation ; because they were either fulfilled , or too burthensome for his church , as indeed st. peter avers , they were so heavie , that neither they nor their fathers were able to bear them ; and the endeavours of this council was successful to the removal of them , and the settlement of the churches in the faith ; and to the great encrease of their number , asts 16. from whence we may safely conclude , that if moses's ceremonies which were from heaven , were a hindrance to peace and growth in the christian church , much more must all ceremonies devised , and imposed by human force and power only , be an obstruction to it . let us therefore stand fast in the liberty wherewith christ hath made us free , and not be entangled in the yoak of bondage , whether of legal , or other devised ceremonies . as for the quality of the persons , of whom this assembly did consist , 't is plain they were messengers , elders and brethren , and these did all freely deliberate upon the matters in question , offering their reasons pro & contra ; and the dicision was made , not by the interposition of power apostolical , but by the clear evidence of truth and reason , to which they all agreed . the apostles acting here as grave fathers , giving free audience and faithful advice , to which when all agreed , the conclusion was made in all their names , as appears , acts 15. 22 , 23. then pleased it the apostles and elders , with the whole church , to send chosen men of their own company to antioch , and wrote letters by them after this manner ; the apostles , elders and brethren send greeting unto the brethren which are of the gentiles , &c. from the sweet concord here , we suppose all churches should do well to constitute their general consistories of such , seeing such helps she may have still , in things ordinary to each office , if she render not her self unworthy of them . now for the quality and authority of the decrees , made by this , or succeeding assemblies , the case is clear of it self ; these were such things as seemed good to the holy ghost , not that the holy ghost now revealed them , but brought to remembrance what the scriptures had said concerning them , and partly by what before that time had been shewed unto st. peter by a certain vision of god's accepting the gentiles , though not cleansed according to legal purification . and therefore till the holy ghost reverse those decrees , they are to oblige all churches to keep them inviolable . and in this point ( as indeed in all the rest ) the baptized churches in this age do stand a witness against the disorder and disobedience of most of the christian nations in the world ; who make no conscience of abstaining from blood , &c. though they know the true churches did religiously observe these decrees for several hundreds of years after . tertullian tells us , the custom of christians is to abstain from all blood , and things strangled , so that it is not lawful for them , when they feed at their tables to meddle with the blood of any beast . it is further safely concluded from hence , that all decrees of general councils are so far obliging only , as the things decreed are proved to be true , and not because they are decreed in council only ; for here st. peter proves , that churches are free from the obligation of legal ceremonies , because they wear a burthen too heavy to be born . 2. because god had accepted them already without them . and james [ the angel of this church ] proves or confirms the same by the scriptures , and these arguments , and probations , satisfied the assembly . and it 's certain , the things prohibited by these decrees , were always forbidden , even to noah and his perpetual generations , gen. 9. 12 , &c. nor does this assembly excommunicate or anathematize all that shall doubt of the necessity of their determination , but very sweetly tells the brethren they shall do well to comply with their advice ; for they knew that every church had power to punish offenders , and to them they seem to leave that care , and not to take the power of any church out of their hands , as the manner of some is . of the case of infants , or whether they were admitted to baptism in the mother-church ? in all that is said of the plantation and growth of this famous church , or in that excellent epistle , which was a long time after written to them , there is not one word to be found of any one infant being brought to baptism ; and therefore we hold to the negative of this question ; and it is observable , that though here infant-circumcision was absolutely excluded , yet is there no argument urged for it from their baptism , which had been very considerable , had there been any such usage in this , or the gentile churches . and because it is granted now by many , and these the most learned too , ( among whom the papists ) that there is no scripture for infant-baptism , &c. but that it stands upon the authority of ecclesiastical tradition ; all that we shall say to that plea in this place is , to desire any man to shew who delivered this thing to the churches , and by what authority , whether divine or human ? for seeing tradition signifies a thing delivered , it is fit the person or persons delivering such a thing , should be known to be persons lawfully impowered to deliver such a tradition , before we can with safety receive it . * but how then shall infants be saved if baptism belong not to them ? i answer , out of the mouth of st. peter , verse 11. by the grace of our lord jesus christ they shall be saved . and sure a man might as well ask how can infants be saved without faith and repentance , seeing it is said , he that believeth not , shall be damned : and except ye repent , ye shall all perish , &c. and what answer could any wise man make , save this ? the grace of god sufficeth them , having christ's express word for it , that to them belongs the kingdom of heaven ; and this he spake to unbaptized infants too , which is therefore so satisfactory that we need no other evidence . if any man say the words which st. peter spake in council , acts 15. 11. are not meant of infants , and therefore not pertinent to my purpose . i shall only desire him to consider , that those words were spoken in opposition to this position , that without circumcision , after the manner of moses , the gentiles could not be saved : now we know , it was after the manner of moses to circumcise infants , and therefore doubtless these false teachers did question the salvation of infants dying without circumcision . therefore these words of st. peter , which teaches that by the grace of our lord jesus christ both jew and gentile shall be saved , have their clear extent to infants as well as to any other persons whatsoever : i shall here only refer the reader to what we have farther written , in a treatise upon this subject , entituled , the controversie about infant-church-member-ship and baptism epitomized . of the reverence due to saints , angels , and to the blessed virgin in particular , according to the usage of this mother-church . it was in this church where the holy virgin , mother of our lord , had her conversation and society , being with that select company , consisting of an hundred and twenty names , acts 1. 15. among whom this most blessed woman is expresly named , and by whose presence this mother-church was honoured above all others . and here is the last mention that is made of her in the holy scriptures . and this honourable mention of her by name , and as the mother of our lord , ( which doubtless calls for great reverence in the hearts of all god's people ) is all the honour that the word of god does here confer upon her . this church makes no prayers to her , nor to christ in her name , nor taught the succeeding churches to do so ; yet surely she was the greatest saint that ever was ; and if we have no ground from any direction , nor president in the scripture to perform such devotion to her , we cannot with any shew of reason , or pretence of truth , do it to any other creatrue , saint or angel , whatsoever . and it is remarkable , that though this church had occasion to make express mention of david in their prayers , acts 4. 25. yet do they not use his intercession at all : but this honour they give to jesus christ , that through his name such things might be done , as might confirm the truth against all opposers . nor does the holy ghost give any notice of the worshipping of angels , saints , nor the holy virgin in particular , in that sacred epistle , which was sent to this church after the death of blessed mary , the mother of jesus ; so that this mother-church ▪ seems altogether unacquainted with such devotions : and much more may we assure our selves , they paid no such devotion to the images of these , or of any of them . if any affirm the contrary , we answer them in the words of jerom , non credimus quia non legimus . and with apollinarius , we dare add nothing to the perfect words of the new testament , whereto nothing may be added ; and wherefrom nothing may be taken away , by him that will lead a life agreeable to the gospel . euseb . hist . l. 5. c. 14. thus brethren i have for your sakes ( as well as others ) taken a fresh view of the state of this most primitive church , to whose holy pattern , through the grace of god , you have diligently laboured to conform your souls , her principles are yours , her government in good measure is yours , if in any thing any of them be otherwise minded , my hearts desire is , that god would speedily reveal even the same unto you , and then it is to be hoped that all well disposed , will in time see themselves concerned to adhere to the truth of your principles , in the very order wherein you maintain them . hear the church : or an epistle to all the baptized christians in england ; exciting them to stedfastness in their holy profession , under their various tryals , and great afflictions . the second part . brethren , as it hath pleased god to exercise you many years with various tryals and afflictions , for your faithfulness to the christian religion ( in respect of the restoration of it to its ancient purity ) both in the form and power of it , wherein you have laboured hitherto , and have not fainted , but , by the grace of god , have attained to some degree in that behalf , above what hath , as yet , been attained by the generality of your country-men , for which you owe the greatest thankfulness to almighty god. and having ( as i verily believe ) laid a right foundation for a true church-state , you are indispensibly obliged to go on unto perfection , as the first churches , which were built upon the same foundation , were expresly required and exhorted , heb. 6. 1 , 2 , 3. in which holy profession , being by the grace of god , one with you , and also called to the ministry and office of a messenger of your churches [ which i mention , because it is the most despised office amongst all christians , as it seems to have been in the apostles days . 1. cor. 4. 9. ] do hold it my duty , at this time , to endeavour to strengthen you ( in what i may ) in your holy profession ; as also to call upon such as have been shaken in mind by the violence of those temptations which have befallen them in common with their brethren . for as it is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living god , ( as those undoubtedly shall , who draw back from the truth they have once embraced unto perdition ) so i am very confident , that for any to fall from the truth , as it is professed by the baptized churches , is the most dangerous of all other , they being indeed the nearest to the truth , in the pristine order and simplicity of it , of all sorts of persons , who own the honorable appellation of christian . for , what sort of christians can with any confidence look upon , or bring themselves close to the rules of st. pauls catechism , * heb. 6. 1 , 2. ( as the antients used to call it ) except the baptized churches ? to say nothing of others , can they of the present roman catholick-church , in any wise square themselves , or justifie their present church-state by the rule of those sacred principles , in the simplicity of them ? no , these principles of christ's doctrine , will in no wise be concordant with the catechism of the present roman church , seeing a doctor of their own hath told us , that if the scriptures must be our rule , &c. they must all cross the cudgels to the anabaptists ; which is a plain giving up the victory to the baptized churches , unless a better form of doctrine can be assigned than this is , which will never be . yea , so pressing is this place from the true institution of the antient christian religion , that the rhemists seem to be under no small difficulty how to express themselves about it : for thus they speak upon the text , heb. 6. 1 , 2. we see hereby ( say they ) what the first grounds of christian institution , or catechism , were in the primitive church , and that there was ever a necessary instruction and belief of certain points , had by word of mouth and tradition , before men came to the scriptures , which could not treat of things so particularly as was requisite for the teaching of all necessary grounds . among these points were the twelve articles contained in the apostles creed ; the doctrine of penance before baptism ; the manner and necessity of baptism ; the sacrament of imposition of hands after baptism , called confirmation ; the articles of the resurrection , judgment , and such like : without which things first laid , if one should be sent to pick his faith out of the scriptures , there would be mad rule quickly . 1. it 's highly observable from hence , that the first grounds and principles of our churches ( which indeed are no other than what men read , heb. 6. 1 , 2. ) are openly acknowledged , by our most potent opposites , to be the same which were in the primitive church , received for the first grounds and institutions of christianity , or christian institution and catechism . that in the primitime church , these grounds were held in the very order now observed by the baptized churches ; particularly , repentance before baptism , and imposition of hands after baptism . sure this is a full testimony , that the institution of the baptized churches ( now wrongfully called anabaptists ) and theirs only , is truly apostolical . whilst all the paedobaptists in the world ( among whom , the papists ) have quite subverted this order , giving their supposed baptism before repentance , and that unto persons that are not capable of repentance . 2. they tell us there was a necessary instruction and belief of certain points had by word of mouth and tradition , before men came to the scripture ▪ admit this to be so , in respect of such parts of the holy scriptures as were then unwritten , when the apostles first preached the gospel ; yet it is certainly false , in respect of such books of scripture as were then in being ; for it 's evident that our blessed saviour propounded the text of scripture , luke 4. 17 , 18 , 19. and thence preached to the people , and commanded his hearers to search the scriptures , john 5. 29. he did not send his hearers to tradition , as the papists do . the great apostle of the jews , st. peter , even then when he was filled with the holy ghost , acts 2. 17. preached from , and notably confirms his doctrine by the scriptures , act. 2. not by tradition . and philip , acts 8. 35. began at the same scripture which the eunuch read , and preached to him jesus , without making any use of tradition . apollo being mighty in the scripture ( not in tradition ) convinced the jews , shewing ( not by tradition ) but by the scriptures , that jesus is the christ . so did the great apostle of the gentiles , st. paul , acts 28. 2● . perswading men concerning jesus , out of the law and the prophets ( not out of tradition ) from morning to evening ; and the best sort of st. paul's hearers , searched the scriptures daily , ( not tradition ) to see whether the things spoken by him were so . 3. nor can the papists tell us what one point of necessary instruction or belief was delivered by word of mouth , which is not now contained in the holy scripture ; if otherwise , let them assign some necessary point of faith or instruction , such , as without which , we cannot know and serve god truly and fully , and be saved eternally , which is not contained in the holy scriptures . but as this will hardly be attempted ; so let me exhort you , brethren , to beware of all manner of principles and doctrins , which have any tendency to weaken or invalidate the authority and sufficiency of the scriptures , which the apostle avers to be of that sufficiency ( even before all the books of sacred scriptures were extant ) as to furnish the man of god throughly to every good work. and then certainly , he who is in all points of faith and instruction , a good christian , according to the doctrine contained in the holy scriptures , will be out of the reach of any just reprehension , though he know nothing of the unwritten tradition , so much pretended and admired by the papists , or others . being thus secured in your principles , from the very concession of your enemies , and by the authority of the best and most sacred antiquity , even the holy scriptures , you have no cause to fear the most important difficulties , wherewith possibly we may be tried in these days . and that we may the better see how the case stands between the baptists and the papists , with respect to the two great ordinances of christ , to wit , holy baptism , and the holy table of our lord jesus christ ; we will here take a view of the one , and of the other , in a distinct column by it self , the better to discern their disparity . the manner of baptism among the baptized believers , commonly called anabaptists . baptist . the manner of baptism among the papists , commonly called roman catholicks ; taken out of the roman ritual , by a learned hand translated into english . papist . the messenger or elder being attired in comely raiment , not much different from the rest of his brethren , first , preaches the gospel to every creature that is capable and willing to hear , and when by hearing they have received faith , the minister explains the doctrine of repentance from dead works , and of faith towards god , for the further illumination of the disciples understanding , in the knowledge of the only true god , and our lord jesus christ , that they may obtain eternal life . the minister does oopen the doctrine of repentance in three parts especially , i. e. as it consists in a due sense or knowledge of the sinfulness of sin : in true sorrow for sin committed , especially against almighty god. the necessity of forsaking the conversation of sin , and to walk righteously , soberly , and godly in this present life . the doctrine of faith is explained concerning the object , in respect of the god-head , the father , the son , and the holy ghost , into whose name the party is to be baptized , and especially concerning christ crucified , buried , and risen a-again ; and therewith is shewed , that in baptism we are to die unto sin , to be buried with him in baptism , to rise to a holy life , and so to put on the lord jesus christ in baptism , as to be born of water and of the spirit through the word . the minister does open to the party to be baptized , the whole doctrine of baptisms ; first , that of water , which is the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins , in respect of the power by which it is commanded , the extent of it , to every repenting sinner ; the end of it to be a pledge of the washing away of sin , and to give us admission into the church of christ , to draw near to god in prayer , with full assurance , having the heart sprinkled from an evil conscience , by faith in the blood of christ , and our bodies washed with pure water , even the water of the baptismal covenant , called the washing of regeneration . 2. that of the holy spirit , the promise of the spirit being made to all that our lord doth call , and therewith doth explain the fourth principle of christ's doctrine , laying on of hands , with prayers , as the means appointed of god to obtain that blessing , even the promise of the spirit through faith in the word of promise . 3. the baptism of affliction is also opened , that the sufferings of christ ( called by himself a baptism ) may not be feared , but patiently endured , according to the will of god. this is the sum of the doctrine of baptism , taught by the baptized churches . the 5th and 6th principles of christ's doctrine , are likewise particularly opened , concerning the resurrection of the dead , and chiefly of christ's being raised bodily from the dead , as the most sure pledge that the dead shall be raised bodily : and the eternal judgment , in which every man shall receive according to the deeds done in the body , whether good , or bad . to all which the party to be baptized , declares his assent , in the best man●er he can ; shewing also his sense of sin , and sorrow for it , his purpose to live holily ; his faith in christ his saviour the only son of god , and that it is his desire to be baptized according to the will of god. and then the minister , with the congregation , or persons present , do make prayer and supplication to almighty god , to receive the returning sinner , and to bless and sanctifie his own ordinance to him . and then the party to be baptized , being cloathed with convenient garments for decency , he is had to the water , where , calling upon the name of the lord , he is dipped into the river , or water , by the minister , in the name of the father , and of the son , and of the holy ghost . and as in every thing christians are to give thanks , so this whole service is concluded with farther prayer , and thanksgiving to this effect , that as it has pleased god to call his servant , or servants out of their sinful state , and to bring them into the way of truth , so it would please him to enable them to persevere to the end , to his glory and their own eternal comfort . nor do we put any vow , covenant or promise upon any person , save only what the very nature of the baptismal covenant it self does in its own evidence carry along with it , it being our greatest care , neither to add to , nor to diminish ought from the holy ordinances of christ , but to keep them as they were delivered at first to the church of god ▪ 1 cor. 11. 2. after many preparatory prescriptions , the priest being dressed in a purple robe , calls the infant to be baptized by his name , and saith , what askest thou of the church of god ? the god-fathers answer , faith. the priest saith again , what shalt thou get by faith ? the god-father replies , eternal life . then adds the priest , if therefore thou wilt enter into life , keep the commandments : thou shalt love the lord thy god with all thy heart , and thy neighbour as thy self . next , the priest blows three gentle puffs upon the infants face , and saith , go out of him thou unclean spirit , and give place to the holy ghost , the comforter . then with his thumb he makes the sign of the cross on the infants forehead and breast , saying , receive the sign of the cross , both in thy forehead and in thy heart . take the faith of the heavenly precept , and be thy manners such as thou mayst now become the temple of god. then follows a prayer , that god would always protect this his elect one ( calling him by his name ) that is signed with the sign of the cross . then laying his hand upon the child's head , he comes to the benediction of salt , of which this is the form. i exorcise or conjure thee , o thou creature of salt , in the name of god the father almighty ✚ , in the name of our lord jesus christ ✚ , and in the power of the holy ghost ✚ , i conjure thee by the living god ✚ , by the true god ✚ , by the holy god ✚ , by the god ✚ , which created thee for the safeguard of mankind , and hath ordained that thou shouldst be consecrated by his servants to the people , entering into the faith , that in the name of the holy trinity , thou shouldst be made a wholesome sacrament for the driving away the enemy . moreover , we pray thee , o lord our god , that in sanctifying , thou wouldst sanctifie ✚ , this creature of salt , and in blessing , thou wouldst bless it ✚ , that it may be to all that receive it , a perfect medicine , remaining in their bowels , in the name of the same jesus christ our lord , who is about to come to judge the quick and the dead , and the world by fire . amen . then the priest putting a little of the holy salt into the child's mouth , saith , take thou the salt of wisdom , be it thy propitiation unto eternal life . amen . now follows another exorcising of the devil , wherein he is conjured as before , then the priest signs the infant again with his thumb on the forehead , saying , and this sign of the holy ✚ which we give to his forehead , thou cursed devil , never dare thou to violate , by the same jesus christ our lord. amen . then the priest puts his hand on the infants head , and makes a prayer in order to his baptism , then puts part of his robe upon the child , and brings him within the church , saying , enter thou into the temple of god , that thou maist partake with christ in eternal life . amen . then follows the apostles creed , and the pater-noster , &c. then follows another exorcising or conjuration of the devil . then the priest takes spittle out of his mouth , and touches therewith the ears and nostrils of the infant ; when he toucheth his ears , he saith , epthapha , be opened ; and touching his nostrils , he saith , for a sweet smelling savour . another conjuration follows in these words ; be packing , o devil , for the judgment of god is at hand . then the priest asks the infant , whether he renounces the devil and all his works , and all his pomps ? in three questions , and the god-fathers answer distinctly to them . then the priest dips his thumb in holy oyl , and anoynting the infant with it on his breast and betwixt his shoulders in the figure of a ✚ , saying , i anoynt thee with the oyl of salvation in christ jesus our lord , that thou mayst obtain eternal life . amen . then the priest puts off his purple robe , and puts on another of white , and asks three questions out of the creed ; and receives the god-fathers answers , then asks this question , whether the infant will be baptized ? and receiving the god-fathers answers to that , he pours water thrice upon the child's head , and reciteth over it our saviour's form of baptism , doing it each time at the naming of the three persons . and now comes the chrysm or holy oyntment , in which dipping his thumb and anointing the infant on the crown of the head , in the figure of a ✚ , he thus prayeth ; o god omnipotent , the father of our lord jesus christ , who hath regenerated thee of water and the holy ghost , and who hath given ▪ thee pardon of all thy sins , i anoint thee with the chrysm of salvation , in the name of christ jesus our lord , to eternal life . amen . and next after follows the pax tibi , and wiping of his thumb and the anointed head , he takes a white linen cloath , and putting it on the child's head useth this form , take the white garment , which thou mayst carry unspotted before the tribunal of our lord jesus christ , that thou mayst have eternal life . amen . and lastly , he puts a lighted candle into the child's , or godfathers hand , and saith , receive the burning lamp , and keep thy baptism blameless ; keep god's commandments , that when the lord shall come to the wedding , thou may'st meet him , &c. concluding all with , go in peace , and the lord be with thee . there are more conjurations and ceremonies added , &c. but let these suffice at present . now brethren , as it is an observation , that white being compared with black doth seem more white ; so the true baptism according to the scripture ( and graciously restored in the practick part among you ) being thus compared with the supposed baptism of the present roman church , must needs seem more lovely , and the wretchedness of their devised fables become more manifest to all men . let us now see whether they have been more happy in the other great ordinance , the holy table of the lord. baptist . the manner of the baptized churches in celebrating the holy table of the lord. papist . the manner of the celebration of the bread and cup in the mass , taken from dr. willit in his synopsis papismi . the congregation being met together , and having spent part of the day in preaching , and prayer , commonly towards the evening , and ordinarily upon the lords day , the table is decently prepared , and the bread and wine set upon it also in decent manner . the messenger or elder does excite the people to due humility , and reverence in their approaching to the holy table of the lord , shewing the occasion and authority by , and upon which it was instituted for a perpetual ministry in the church of god. the great use and mystical signification of it , as christ is evidently set forth in his crucifixion , or bitter death upon the cross , as the alone sacrifice , once offered for the sins of men , and that there is no more offering for sin , but the offering up of christ once for all . then he putteth them in mind of the qualifications , necessary on their part to the due reception of that divine ordinance , without which they will come together for the worse , and not for the better . then taking the bread into his hands , he calleth upon god in the mediation of jesus christ , for a blessing upon the bread , that it may be sanctified for that holy use for which it was ordained by christ , and that by faith , all that are to partake of that bread , thereby may feed upon the body of christ , which is the true bread , and by him live for ever . then he breaketh the bread , pronouncing the words of christ , this is my body , &c. willeth the people to receive it in remembrance of christ , and as shewing forth the death of christ till he come the second time without sin to salvation . in like manner he taketh the cup , after the people have received the bread , and with prayer suitable to that great mystery , it being sanctified , he poureth out of the wine , remembring the words of christ , this cup is the new testament in my blood , &c. partakes of it himself ( as he did also of the bread ) and gives it to the deacons to communicate to all the congregation , and they all drink of it . then some word of exhortation is given to the people under the consideration of the unspeakable mercy of god in the gift of his son to dye for us , that we might live eternally with him : all is concluded with prayers to the lord for all his blessings , in the most joyful manner that the minister is able to express them , and then usually something is given to the poor , as every mans heart maketh him willing , being not constrained thereunto , but as the love of christ constraineth him . to say nothing here of the roman church , denying to give the cup to the people , the priests only drinking of it ; nor of the priest only partaking of the bread and cup in divers of their masses , the people only looking on : neither of their adoration of the elements of bread and wine in these words , i worship thee , i glorifie thee , i praise thee . nor yet of that passage in the communion of the mass , let us worship the sign of the cross , which are things too large to be discoursed in a letter ; it shall suffice to set down the manner of their celebration . 1. all is done in an unknown tongue , which the people understand not . 2. the benedicamus domino , is sung ten times together , and ite missa est is sung thirteen times , with long and tedious notes . 3. the priest is to say divers prayers privately to himself . 4. he is taught by the rubrick to make thirty several crosses upon the bread , the cup , the altar , and his forehead . 5. their gestures are as followeth . the priest boweth his body , and lifting up himself , kisseth the altar on the right side ; then he boweth again , and looketh toward the host [ that is the bread ] he joyneth his hands , wipeth his fingers , lifteth up the host , then he lifteth up his eyes , and boweth himself , and lifteth up his eyes again , he boweth again , and lifteth up the host above his forehead ; then he uncovereth the cup , and holdeth it between his hands , keeping his thumb and his finger together . then he boweth and lifteth up the cup a little , then to his breast , or above his head. he setteth it down again and wipeth his fingers ; then he spreadeth his arms a-cross . he boweth his body , rising up , he kisseth the altar on the right side . he smiteth his breast ; uncovering the cup , he makes five crosses with the host beyond the cup , twice , on each side under the cup and before it . then he layeth his hands upon the altar , the deacon reaching him the paten , he putteth it to his right eye , then to his left , he maketh a cross beyond his head with it , he kisseth it and layeth it down . then he breaketh the host in three , holding two pieces in his left hand and one in his right over the cup , which with a cross he letteth fall into it . then he kisseth the corporas : the deacon taketh the pax from the priest , giveth it to the sub-deacon and he to the quire. then humbling himself , he first taketh the body , and then the blood , so he goeth to the right horn of the altar , the sub-deacon poureth in wine , and the priest rinseth the cup , and washeth his hands turning himself to the people . cometh again to the altar , and turneth to the people the second time . then bowing his body , and closing his hands , he prayeth to himself : he riseth again , making the sign of the cross , and bowing again , goeth from the altar . thus , brethren , i have given you a brief account of the ceremonious observations of those who would be thought the truest church on earth , though they have assuredly changed the ordinances of our lord more than any sort of christians ; i have also set before you the purity and simplicity ( and yet the great utility ) of these two great ordinances , that you may be more inwardly affected with them , but especially with him whom they so excellently represent , for to this end are they ordained to set forth christ and him crucified . of all the difficulties with which you are likely to be tried in respect of your religious profession , that question which concerns the judge of these and other controversies in religion , is like to be the most dangerous , because you have been little exercised in it ; as also because many persons of great eminency and authority are deeply radicated and very expert in an opinion diametrically opposite to yours , for they say , that the living voice of the church , assembled in a general council of her bishops and doctors , is the only infallible judge to determine all controversies in matters of faith and religion . on the other side , we have been taught , and have constantly believed that it is all christians duty to rely chiefly , and before all things , upon the authority and sufficiency of the voice of god himself , as he speaks in the holy scriptures , as the best , and only infallible decider of all questions that shall arise , ( especially in the christian church , and since the holy scriptures were written and received ) about matters of faith and religion . and indeed it seems very strange that any man should think there is a better judge than god himself , of what is true , and what is otherwise , in matters of religion ; and to be sure he speaks to us with the greatest certainty , and authority , by the holy pen-men of the scriptures . and it is as strange that the church , who must derive all her light and authority from god and his word , should appeal men to her self rather than to him : methinks they should say to us ( as caesar's substitute said to st. paul ) hast thou appealed to god , as he speaks in his scriptures ? to god and his scriptures shalt thou go . and especially when this is the question , what sort of christians are the true church of christ ? for it seems then the most unreasonable thing in the world , that any party contending for this title [ the church ] should be her own judge ; and seeing the church cannot by meerly avouching ( upon her own testimony only ) that she is the church , make any proof or demonstration that she is so , it remains then , that we must have some infallible rule by which to find the church . and now if god himself does not reveal to us who is his church , we shall never find her ; nor does he reveal this , but by the testimonies of the scripture , there must we find the church of god , or no where . for none but enthusiasts pretend to any other revelation in this case ; and to speak feeely , i doubt the papists are more then a little enthusiastical ; for rather than let god's word decide this question about the church , they will flye to miracles , as if a false prophet may not shew a sign , or a wonder , yea , and that sign and wonder come to pass too , and yet the thing he brings it to prove , be nothing but a lye : see deut. 15. surely he that shall pretend to work a miracle or wonder in these days , to prove such , or such a people to be the church , i should the more suspect both him and his church ; because we have a sure word of prophecy confirmed by miracles already , which word , doth as fully set forth the church , as it sets forth any thing ; insomuch as men may as well call for miracles to prove there is a god , and that this god is true , as to call for miracles to prove the true church . indeed the church of christ being once found , then all wise and modest men will readily lend an ear to her in all things , and especially when she undertakes to expound the dark or mysterious points of our religion , or offers her judgment in things doubtful , [ for as for the common point of the christian faith , he that is a wise and good man , and no ways byassed by interest , may perhaps know these things , as well as the church , or at least , such as call themselves church-men . ] but to be bound to adhere to any church in these days , as to a people which cannot possibly be mistaken in any matters of faith , or religion , seems to be an atribute too high for any society of sinful men , [ and there is none that liveth and sinneth not . ] for seeing god hath not told us any such thing , that the church cannot err or be mistaken , it ought not to be spoken : and if it be only proper to the almighty to say he cannot lye ; it must not be said of the church , that she cannot lye , lest he reprove us , and we be found lyars . rom. 3. 4. let god be true , and every man a lyar , for thus it is written ; and again , hos . 11. 12. ephraim compasseth me about with lyes , and the house of israel with deceit . this was the case of the ten tribes : and though judah be justified as to these impieties , yet chap. 12. 2. god tells them he had a controversie with them also . certain it is that famous churches have erred in matters of faith , and others were as liable to err as they , no church being herein priviledged above another , for any thing that god has said in his word , but he every where exhorts his people to beware of sin , error , and apostacy , and commands every one that hath ears , to hear what the spirit saith to the churches : but he does not say to any of them that they cannot err , therefore we are not to hear such a story of any church . mat. 16. 18. is a gracious promise indeed , that the gates of hell shall not prevail against the church of christ , as founded upon himself , in the true faith of st. peter . but this promise belongs to all true churches equally , yet no man ever durst affirm from hence , that no true church can possibly err . and st. peter , who understood this promise , never told any church of his planting , that they could not err ; but rather tells them they may err , so as to fall from their stedfastness , and be led away with the error of the wicked . indeed if any church could be assigned here on earth that cannot err , or be deceived in matters of faith , it were the easiest thing in the world to find the truth , having once found the church ; for we should have no need to know any thing but what that church speaks , and to receive her determinations as god's oracles : but then i consider again that we should perhaps have great inconvenience also . for , if all the decrees made by general councils be obliging to us , and were bound up together , we should never be able to read them , nor i doubt , to understand them ; it will then be our best , at the long-run , to take sanctuary at the word of god , as our guide , and superiour to the church . but i consider farther , that no man makes any particular church this guide , but does refer us to the universal church , as assembled in a general council . surely either this is to make as many universal churches at least as there has been ages since christ was upon the earth ; or if all make but one universal church , the direction given to follow her sentence , is scarce practicable ; for how long will it be before a man can be assured , what was held , and what was rejected by the church in all ages ? indeed there are men born of great confidence , who will tell us that the catholick , or universal church hath always held such doctrines , and such traditiors as are unwritten , &c. now it highly concerns all christians , as much as in them lieth , to make sure work with such bold talkers , about the truth of the things which they affirm , especially about the truth of the antiquity of these things , that is , that they appear by some divine record to have been delivered to the first churches , by men approved of god , to be the deliverers of divine institutes ; and if they fail here , it will be ill venturing to follow them in their after-enquiries . and there is the highest reason in the world to stand as strongly as possible for the first age ; for such pure and undoubted antiquity is necessary in our case , from the tenour of our blessed saviour's argumentation against the jews , in opposition to a tradition , or mosaical precept in the case of divorce , mat. 19. 8. from the beginning it was not so . for seeing the apostles did faithfully deliver the whole counsel of god to the first churches , condemning all that shall teach otherwise than they had taught the the doctrine of godliness ; or that should not consent to wholesome words , even the words of our lord jesus christ , it is therefore necessary to bring all doctrine ▪ and practices in the christian church to the test of the most pure and primitive antiquity ; for that church which hath that argument fairly on her side , cannot fail of all other arguments , which can be any way necessary for her justification ; for indeed this first argument does infer all the rest , and they that have not this , have none of the other ; which thing being well considered , look back upon your principles ( o ye baptized christians ) and upon what hath been said for them , even by your adversaries , and take comfort ; for whoever boasts of the best antiquity , it is certain that you only have it . for what is the most ancient record ? doubtless the holy scripture ; and if so , let the question be about christ and his church , there must we find them both , or no where . if any man like not this doctrine ; let him shew me , if he can , these lovely objects without being beholden to the scripture . some i have known to attempt this , but with lamentable success , being soon driven to a shameful silence ; and indeed the whole world must depart into utter silence as touching this great mystery , christ and his church , unless the word of god , ( as it is delivered in the holy scriptures ) through faith , makes us wise in these great concernments of salvation , 2 tim. 3. 14. let men alledge all the authors in the world , and all the tradition that ever was , if the holy scriptures must not be their own evidence , and so capable to command our belief of them ; then for the same , or rather more forcible reasons , then any man can bring against the scriptures , all authors and all traditions shall be dumb and useless as to the production of the least iota of divine faith ; so that the papists at the long-run ( must if they know how ) shew us their church without scripture , or any author , and without tradition also , as i have formerly written unto you , being provoked thereunto by seven queries sent by a learned papist , who in his last to me , does undertake to deliver himself from this difficulty after this manner ; we may ( saith he ) prove the church by the holy scripture , and the scripture by the church , and this by a regressus demonstrativus , without a vicious circle , because we suppose them both sufficiently proved , and prudently accepted for such , by all the motives of credibility , as miracles , holiness , &c. by which christ proved himself and his new gospel . but as for the sense of the scripture , i have more than sufficiently demonstrated , that the scripture it self cannot bear witness for it , but that this must be had from a living judge , viz. the church , the infallible interpreter of gods word . to this i answer briefly : that is a vicious circle , out of which no man can lawfully deliver himself , but must run in a round without end ; and truly such is this circular argumentation of my adversary , he will prove his church by the scripture . 2. he will prove the scripture to be true by his church , and he will prove his church true by the scripture , before the scripture be proved true ; and he will prove the scripture to be true , after it hath proved his church true . this meander is no way to be avoided that i can see , but by suffering either the scripture , or the church to be its own evidence , for his demonstrative regress makes his case worse ; for by it , they be both sufficiently proved , before either of them be proved , and both prudently accepted , before either of them be accepted ; and which is most strange of all the rest , these things are all done before the scripture hath any sense known ; for of this he is the most of all confident , that the sense of the scripture must be had from a living judge , viz. the church , the infallible interpreter of god's word . so that this is the conclusion of the whole matter : the scripture without sense must prove the roman church , and the roman church must then give the sense of that scripture , which had no sense before , when it proved her to be the church ; here is indeed a regressus , but no such thing as a demonstrativus . methinks wise men should consider that the holy scripture is its own interpreter in a great , if not the greatest part of it , the new testament being the best interpreter of the old testament , and of it self also in many places : for example ; it tells us in one place , that the heavens must receive christ from the time of his ascension , till the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the lord. act. 3. 21. and hence we hold , that no christian must say that the real body of of christ , which ascended to heaven , is upon the earth , till he shall be sent the second time , [ for god shall send jesus , saith st. peter ] because the scripture tells us in another place , that if jesus were on earth , he should not be a priest , heb. 8. 4. it is therefore as plain as plain can be , that the papists make void the priesthood of christ , and contradict st. peter himself , when they tell the world that the real body of christ which ascended into heaven , is now really , carnally , corporally present upon the earth , that is , upon their altars , and in the hands and mouths of their priests and people , as often as they celebrate mass , and consequently he is so far from being received into heaven till the time of his second coming , that he is , according to their own opinion , received bodily upon earth ten thousand times , and in ten thousand places , to his being once received bodily into heaven . sure their opinion is directly against the scripture , as sure as their transubstantiation is directly against the best sense , and the best reason , with which almighty god hath endowed the best of men , as has been clearly evidenced by many learned discourses ; among which , i would commend to your perusal , one lately published , under the title of a discourse against transubstantiation : printed this year , and sold by mr. aylmer at the three pigeons against the royal exchange , price six pence . my learned adversary , and indeed the papists generally , do urge us vehemently after this manner , admitting that the church is to follow the rule of god's revealed word in all her definitions ; yet they hold it extreamly irrational , that all that can read it , should be his own interpreter of it , for so , say they , he will be his own judge . and as in a nation where no judge of the law is appointed , there can be no justice , but every man will be his own judge ; so likewise , unless there be a supream judge in matters of faith , to wit , the church , from whom no appeal may be allowed , there can be no end of controversies , &c. this objection is considerable : to which i say , 1. what my adversary means by god's revealed word , i do not very well understand , but i doubt he extends that term farther than the holy scripture , else i am sure enough , the church of rome has no revealed word of god to follow in very many of her observations : but to let this pass at present , i answer to the objection thus ; 2. it seems to be built upon many dangerous suppositions , such as these , that we ought to rest upon the sentence of a priest ( for we must hear the church out of his mouth ) for the state of our soul , as on the sentence of a judge in a civil court for a matter of debt , &c. and that we are no more bound to search the scriptures for eternal life , than to search the statute-book for our temporal life [ nay , here i do them no wrong , for they will permit us to read the statute-book , but they forbid us to read the holy scripture . ] it supposes the priest cannot deceive us ; when the prophet tells us , that though the priests lips should preserve knowledge , and that we should seek the law at his mouth , yet they had caused many to stumble at the law , because they had been partial in the law , mat. 2. 8. it supposes , whoever falls under the sentence of the priest , is as surely damned , as he is cast or hanged , that falls under the sentence of a judge in law. [ which may be false , for the priests did joyntly sentence our blessed saviour , saying , we have a law , and by our law he ought to die . it 's true , whatsoever the church doth bind on earth , is bound in heaven ; but then nothing is bound on earth , unless she judge righteously ; for it is written , that the curse causeless shall not come , prov. 26. 2. and seeing she may be deceived , ( at least by false witnesses ) she may condemn the innocent , though she had no mind to do so , which shews she is not infallible , whatever men talk to the contrary . ] i do not like this opinion , therefore because it leaves not liberty for those whom the church condemns , to appeal so much as to almighty god , who knows the hearts of all men , whilst the church knows them not . but i answer to the objection , by saying , 1. there is a judgment authoritative ; this indeed must be referr'd to the church , and no wise man ever thought otherwise , and the members of the church must be content to abide the sentence of the church , though they be innocent , till god clears their innocency ; but all this while we suppose the church we speak of , to be a true church , and that she judges according to evidence ; and yet because she knows not all secrets , nor all things contained in the scriptures , we also suppose she may possibly mistake , though never so honest . but , 2. there is a judgment of knowledge or discretion , by which men receive the truth of the gospel , as understanding , and so believing it to be so ; and by the same judgment he refuses what is false , as understanding it to be so ; and till his understanding be well informed , or rationally satisfied by convincing evidence , he cannot , if he have the understanding and spirit of a man , do either the one or the other . and hence it is , that salvation , ( and consequently the means to obtain it ) are offered to men in the manner of choice , josh . 24. 15. chuse then this day whom you will serve . heb. 11. 25. moses chose rather to suffer affliction with the people of god , than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season . and forasmuch as all men are not called at the same moment , but some receive the truth in their youth , others in their middle age , some not till old age ; all the liberty which we contend for , is , that men may have the free use of the means ▪ by which they may know the truth , and be allowed to understand it before they be admitted to sacred things , that they may not only be able to give a reason of the hope that is in them , but also be able to do ( as they are also exhorted ) prove every man his own work , that he may have rejoycing in himself alone , and not in another , gal. 6. 4 , 5. thus much in answer to this objection . there is no man living that would more gladly ( than my self ) give to the church of god , all that honour and obedience which god hath allowed her ; but to say , she cannot err , is to make her more like god than she is . i think all that can be safely affirmed , is , that she shall not sail so , as utterly to cease from being , but that god will have a church in the world , to be his witness to the end of the world , though the apostacy be never so great , or seemingly universal . and as it pleased god to foreshew the great apostacies , which should be found among the christian nations : so he was graciously pleased to intermix some words of comfort , that when it should so fall out , that the spouse of christ should be like the dove in the secret places of the stairs ; cant. 2. 14. or thrust into prisons , and out of sight , which might cause the faithful even to think there was no church remaining ( like that of the prophet , who desired rather to die than to live , because he thought the faithful had utterly failed , and himself left alone ) i say , that then they should remember that the gates of hell should not prevail against the church , and therefore god hath always had a church , however she might be obscured . finally , brethren , my hearts desire and prayer to god for you , is , that you may be of one mind and judgment in all the will of god , and especially in these sacred principles before mentioned , and in the constitution of your ministry , in respect of the threefold order of ministers , under which the first churches were undoubtedly governed , viz. messengers , elders , and deacons . and i do the rather advise to this , because some have been pleased to publish in print , that there are only two offices remaining in the church of christ , viz. elders and deacons ; this presbyterian principle , will , i fear , undo such as receive it . they boldly tell us , that the office of timothy and titus was temporary , as if they had none to succeed them . what i have formerly written in the defence of the first of these offices , is extant among you , and as yet unanswered , and to that i refer you . our divisions have been , and will be , if continued , very prejudicial to the truth it self ; and our adversaries know how to make use of them against us , and our holy profession , though they cannot be ignorant of the great divisions which were in the churches in the apostles days , nor should they be ignorant of their own ; and to the end they may see they are no more happy in that matter than their neighbours , let them consider what bernard hath written of them , as he is quoted by the learned , in cant. serm. 33. his words are to this effect . from whom shall the church hide her self ? all are friends , and all are enemies ; all are kinsfolks , and all are adversaries ; all are houshold servants , and there is none at peace ; all are neighbours , and all seek but their own profit . they are ministers of christ , and serve anti-christ ; they do walk in the honour of the goodness of the lord , unto whom they do no honour . thereby cometh that beauty of the harlot , which thou seest daily in their apparel , as the players of comedies . as in the apparel of a king , thereby thou seest the gold in the bridles , saddles and spurs . thereby are the tables beautified with meats and vessels : thereby cometh drunkenness and gluttony : thereby proceedeth the harp and the viol : thereby are the presses running over , and the garners full , answering the one to the other : thereby are the boxes full of oyntment and sweet savour : thereby are the purses filled . therefore would they be , and are the princes of the churches . the provosts , deans , arch-deacons , bishops , arch-bishops , and these things come not lawfully , but because they walk in the business of darkness . behold now in peace my bitterness is most bitter , it hath been before bitter in the death of martyrs , afterwards more bitter in controversie with hereticks ; now it is most bitter in the manners of those of our own house . we can neither chase them away , they are so mighty , and multiplied without number ; the sores and plagues of the church are entred into the inward parts , and are incurable , and therefore is her bitterness most bitter . and in psal . 90. 6 , 11. o lord jesus , thou hast multiplied the people , but not encreased their joy ; all the christians almost , do seek their own profit , they have removed the offices to shameful gain , and into works of darkness , and the health of souls is not searched for , but the pleasure of vices : therefore are they shorn : therefore do they frequent churches , and sing psalms . they contend most impudently daily by process , for bishopricks , arch-bishopricks , &c. there remaineth nothing , but that the man of sin , the son of perdition , be revealed . and on the conversion of st. paul. alas , o lord god , for these are the first which do persecute thee , whom we do see to love the highest places in thy church , and do hold the principality , and by power and strength have taken the arches of sion , and afterward freely have set all the city on fire . their conversation is miserable , the subversion of thy people is pitiful . and speaking to the pope , he saith , this mortal corruption hath not begun in thy days , but i pray god it may end in thy time . in the mean time thou art apparelled and decked up very gorgeously . if i durst speak , thy seat is rather a pack of devils then of sheep . did st. peter do so ? did st. paul mock after that sort ? behold the murmuring and complaint of all churches , they do cry out that they are cut in pieces , and dismembred . there are very few , or almost none , that do not fear the streak or wound . thus far bernard . let not then the papists contemn or despise us , because of some defects , in respect of unity , neither let us despise them , because of the discords which have been , or are among them . let us beware of the cause of those calamities , and strive only for the true form , and due power of godliness , then shall the spirit of hatred , which hath inserted it self amongst christians , be rooted out ; and then shall that great badge of christianity , unfeigned love , ( even the love of god , shed abroad in our hearts by the holy ghost ) possess the room of all our bitter contentions . that thus it may be , is the prayer of your loving brother , thomas grantham . written in the year 1685. post-script . concerning the original manuscripts of the holy scriptures . brethren , because our learned adversaries are wont to amuse weak christians , by telling them they knew not the originals , &c. i thought fit to transcribe part of what i have formerly printed in answer to this specious objection ; in the introduction of my book of primitive christianity , how vain and pernicious this talk is about the original , will appear , when you consider , that no man living ever saw the very papers in which the prophets and apostles did write the first draughts of the holy scriptures , and therefore none have the originals , but only copies of scripture . and let not this offend any man : for , it seems to have been the best for all christians , that after many copies are taken and spread in many nations , these first draughts should not continue long ; for had any now but so much confidence , as to say they have these very first sheets of paper to show , how might they trouble the whole world with such a report ? and how might they abuse the world , and all the churches in the world at pleasure ? as by adding or taking away , and who should correct the original ? suppose the roman church had those manuscripts in their hands , what mists might they cast upon the nations , and who could come to the sight of them to discover any such abuse ? and the same may be said of any other potent party . but now the originals being no where to be found , but yet a multitude of copies extant , and the same translated by multitudes of men into several languages ; by this means all are forced to be more peaceable than perhaps they are willing to be , since they have only copies of the divine oracles , and others have copies as well as they , so that they can none of them pretend to have ever seen the original , and therefore can they less quarrel about their copies . thus hath god's wisdom disposed herein , better for his church than she could have thought or desired . and it is worth observation , that scarce any of the churches to whom st. paul wrote , had the original sent to them , ( except the galatians ) but had only certain copies written by divers hands . for instance , the epistle to the hebrews was written by timothy , as 't is said in the post-script . the epistle to the romans was written by tertius . four persons wrote the first epistle to the corinthians , post-script . two brethren wrote the second epistle , post-script . tichicus and onesimus wrote that to colossus . all these churches had only copies , and for ought appears , never saw the originals . and what if some of these copies did accidentally vary some word or tittle , are the sacred epistles ever the worse , so long as the holy doctrine therein contained , was not injured ? can we think that when the holy apostles preached , that they had still the very self-same phrases ? this were idle to imagine , and yet they had the self-same gospel to preach in every place . i speak not this , as if i approved of altering the holy writings ; no , not in the least iota ; yet if accidentally , in transcribing , or printing , there should be some such failure , i do not think that by and by that copy were to be rejected , or the authority of the scriptures therefore to be called in question , that men might set up themselves above it . some under pretence of being the church , and others pretending the spirit , whilst they both reject the church and the spirit , as held forth in , and speaking by the holy scriptures . a plain instance of this , we have in the papists , and most paedo-baptists , who whilst they seem to admire general councils , fathers , &c. they regard not the decrees of the best councils and fathers , which were held by the apostles and elders , and brethren at jerusalem , who among other things , forbid the eating of things strangled , and blood , which the church observed for several hundred of years after [ for indeed they were delivered to the churches to be kept , not to be broken , acts 16. 1 , 2. ] and yet without all conscience of these decrees , they feed upon blood , &c. and on the other side , how ridgidly do they impose the decrees of the trent councils , in the case of transubstantiation ( though never heard of before it was there invented ) insomuch as they have punished with the cruelest death , such as in conscience could not subscribe unto it . god give them a better vnderstanding , and more moderation for the future . but ye , brethren , as you have received these holy decrees among the rest of the heavenly rules left unto us by the most antient fathers , even the apostles of our lord , so walk in them , and keep the ordinances as they were delivered by them , who received them of the lord. now the lord increase our faith , that we may be able to stand fast in the truth , and to overcome all difficulties . so prays your brother , thomas grantham . hear the church , &c. or , an epitome of the chief controversies between the papists , and the baptized believers . by thomas grantham . let that therefore abide in you which you have heard from the beginning : if that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you , ye also shall continue in the son , and in the father , and this is the promise which he hath promised us , even eternal life , 1 john. unto the perfect words of the new-testament nothing may be added , and from which nothing may be taken away , by him that will lead a life agreeable to the gospel . apollinar . l. 5. c. 14. london , printed in the year , 1687. the epistle to the reader . christian friend , it is now about six and twenty years since it pleased a learned papist to send seven queries to the people commonly called anabaptists , in the county of lincoln , about which many papers were exchanged , and in the year 1662 ; some part of them were printed under the title of the baptist against the papist , or the scripture and rome in contention about the supreme seat of judgment in controversies of religion . to which the querist never replied in print , but only sent me a few notes in manuscript ; which seven queries , with my seven anti-queries i shall annex to this epistle . the truth is , i did then , and do still look upon this sort of christian-adversaries ( so i call them ) to be the most subtil , as well as coherent with their principles , keeping close to their arguments , and using all very much the same mediums : and were the truth with them ( as in many things i am satisfied it is not ) this very thing would be their high commendation . but missing the heavenly mark ( more is the pity ) they must needs be the more dangerous , wherein they stand opposed to the truth , of which being very sensible ▪ i cannot , as i love plain truth , and the souls of all men , but indeavour as much as in me is , after a christian sort to undeceive ( if it may be ) some of them , and to prevent others from being deceived by them . i speak not this as fearing them , but as truly loving them , as they bear the name of christians , and doubtless are as zealous in their way as any , tho i do verily believe they are under the greatest mistakes of any that prof●ss the christian religion , except professed enthusiasts . that i treat them in love is no new thing , let my words written more than twenty years since witness , now in my epistle to the reader thus you find them . not that i envy those of the papal church , or desire them any evil ; not that i desire they should be exposed to a suffering condition for matters of religion , or that they should be denied any liberty in that respect which i desire my self , nor for any other prejudice ( god knoweth ) do i publish this small treatise , &c. and what i said then , i say now , being verily perswaded by the scripture , and all good principles which i could ever meet with , that they and all men [ living soberly and quietly under the government ] ought to have at least a friendly connivance under our differing sentiments from the established form or order of worship , &c. but i am no dictator , i must leave these things to the pleasure of god , and the prudence of our governors , only this is my determination , in christ's strength to live and die faithful to what i know of the ways of truth , and to my own conscience . praying constantly for the happiness of my prince , and all his peaceable subjects . tho. grantham . hear the church : the third part . containing an epitome of the controversies depending between those who are commonly called papists , and those commonly called ana-baptists : occasioned by seven queries propounded by a learned papist . let the christian reader know , that it is no idle conceit of the parts of the author , above his brethren , nor yet above his adversaries ( many of whom are undoubtedly men of very rare parts and accomplishments ) which moveth him thus to appear , and to call forth all the strength of rome in argument to defend their church and religion against the poor baptized churches in this nation : but it is only the clear evidence of truth , on their side , as contained in the holy oracles of god , which gives boldness to this great undertaking . which in all due humility , christian love , and yet with holy confidence , is thus attempted , for a fair trial of the case or cases depending between the parties above mentioned . in the name of god therefore let us proceed to the particulars of the seven queries sent to the baptists by a learned papist , which indeed contains the sum of the controversies between the said parties . papist query 1. baptist anti-query 1. whether we are to resolve all differences in point of religion , only out of the written word of god ? what controversie in point of religion can you resolve without the written word of god ? and whether the written word of god be a perfect rule for matters of religion ? the first part of this anti-query concludes in the negative ; the latter part in the affirmative , and affords ( as i think ) this undeniable argument , that which is the only perfect rule to all christians in the greatest matters of religion , and that without which neither christ , the church , nor christian religion can be known , is the only infallible rule by which all controversies in point of religion , are to be resolved . but the holy scriptures are the only perfect rule to all christians in the greatest matters of religion ; and that without which neither christ , the church , nor christian religion can be known . ergo , the holy scriptures are the only infallible rule by which all controversies in point of religion among christians are to be resolved . papist query 2. baptist anti-query 2. how know you precisely what is the true word of god ? whether some book must not of necessity speak for it self [ or be received for god's word upon its own evidence ? ] and whether the holy scriptures do not best deserve that privilege ? and whether it be not too great presumption to say , there are no holy books , but those which you and we have received for such , seeing those which we have , tell us there were other holy writings , which never yet came to our hands , nor to yours ? forasmuch as no society of christians in these days can bear witness to the truth of any thing upon their own knowledg , sight , or hearing ( as the apostles did , 1 john 1. 2 pet. 1. 16. ) for scarce so much as one hundred years , and this their testimony , also , being but of human authority , it remaineth of necessity , that some books of record must be received upon the authority of the author , in whose name they speak , and the divine evidence of the matter contained in them ; and hence we argue , the sufficiency of the scriptures own authority , to command our reception of them , speaking to us in the name of god , and carrying in themselves divine evidences in respect of the matters therein contained . papist query 3. baptist anti-query . 3. how know you that your copies and translations of the bible , are the true word of god , since the original writings are not come to your hands ? what copies and translations of the scriptures have you that are more true than ours ? and where are the original manuscripts of the prophets and apostles ? seeing it was not the pleasure of the divine wisdom , to preserve , and present to all nations , the very first pieces of paper in which the divine oracles were written ; but rather to preserve many copies , and cause them to be spread throughout the world. and seeing no sort of christians dare pretend to have translated any of those copies by an infallible pen , but only according to the best skill they have acquired or learned in the original tongues ; it would better become all learned christians to bend their minds to rectifie ( what they may ) any imperfection or mistake that may be in any of the translations , rather than by such queries as this , to open a gap to vnbelief and irreligion . and though much might be said ( by a captious person ) against the english translation of the papists , yet to prevent vain jangling , we refuse not to be tried in the cases depending in these queries ▪ and anti-queries , either by their translation of the bible , or by that which is allowed by authority ? and seeing no papist is able to produce the prime originals , let them beware how they quarrel with our copies , lest some quarrel with theirs : and ●so instead of edification , they bring forth nothing but vain contention : and show themselves ungrateful to god , and mischievous to men . for what man of any modesty would upbraid another , because he never saw the original writings , when neither himself , nor any man living ever saw them , nor is ever like to see them ? papist query 4. baptist anti-query 4. where we differ about the sense of the word , by whom must we be tried ? the dead letter cannot explain it self . when we differ about the true church , or the meaning of authors [ be they fathers , or councils ] by whom must we be tried ? these cannot speak for themselves , more than the scriptures : and whether , the scriptures being compared together , do not explain themselves ? also , whether this be not an opprobrious , and ignominious speech , for you to call the scripture a dead letter ? and whether the true lovers of the scriptures , ever vouchsafed them such ill , and indeed improper language ? of all the seven queries , this is the most difficult ; see what we have said to this difficulty in our precedent epistle . let the papists prove themselves to be the true church , and the contention about the power of the church to decide differences which may ▪ arise about the meaning of the scriptures , will with more ease be brought to a period . in the mean time , as we must every one give an account of our selves to god , so it is the duty of every christian to labour to understand the scriptures , mat. 24. 15. pro. 22. 20 , 21. papist query 5. baptist anti-query 5. what clear text have you out of the scriptures , for the procession of the holy ghost from the father , and the son ? or for changing the sabbath from saturday to sunday ? or for prohibiting poligamy , or infant-baptism ? and whether there be not as clear texts to prove unwritten traditions , purgatory , and the real presence ? whether the baptism of the true church be not one ? and whether the one baptism be not expresly found in the scriptures ? and whether the scriptures do not prohibit all baptism of water , beside that one ? and whether the papists have not confessed , in many of their books , that infant-baptism is not found in , nor grounded upon the scripture ? and then , whether it be not clear , that all the texts , which speak of baptism in water , do prohibit infant-baptism ? also , whether john 15. 26. & 14. 26. & 16. 7. be not clear texts , that the holy spirit proceedeth from the father , and the son ? also whether 1 cor. 7. 1 , 2 , 3. do not as much prohibit one man for having two wives , as one woman for having two husbands ? and , whether it do not clearly prohibit the latter ? also , whether there be any thathold the first day of the week under the notion of a sabbath , among the baptized churches ; and yet whether there be not clear proof for the religious observation of it , acts 20. 7. 1 cor. 16. 2. also , whether it be not absurd for you to ask for clear texts , to prove unwritten things ? also whether purgatory , and the real presence , as you hold them , are not plainly destructive to some articles of the christian faith. for , is not this the faith of all sound christians ? 1. that almighty god does love no creature in this world , so much as the creature man ; nor does he take any creature on earth into that nearness of vnion with himself , as the souls and bodies of those that shall be saved . 2. that the blessed body of christ , after his ascension into glory , admits of no change , either by addition to his substance of his flesh , and blood ; or diminution of any part thereof from either . now it is most certain , that the opinion of the real presence by transubstantiation of bread and wine into the very body and blood of christ , god-man , doth evidently militate against these clear truths , with the greatest opposition , as will appear by these considerations following , 1. though the love of god to mankind , especially to all that shall be saved , is exceeding great ; yet it is certain , he never died , nor ever will so take them into union with himself , as to transubstantiate their bodies into the divine substance of christ , and so make their flesh of the same essence with himself , as he is god blessed for ever . and therefore it is in no wise to be believed , that god almighty so loves the creatures , bread and wine , as to turn , or transubstantiate the very substance of them , into the very substance of the only son of god , whom we believe to be of one substance with the father . it is also further to be considered , that though the two natures in christ , i. e. the divine , and human , are united after an unspeakable manner ; yet no christian does believe , that god did transubstantiate the substance of the humane nature , into the substance , of the divine nature , and that the forms of flesh and blood only does remain . how then is it at all credible that god should deifie the creatures of bread and wine , by turning them into the divine essence , as well as human , to be worshipped with the highest degree of adoration which is proper to god himself ? con. trent . sess . 13. can. 6. and the words of bellarmin are very plain ; god ( saith he ) is verily and truly to be worshipped , mat. 4. but christ in the eucharist , is very god ; ergo. thus much of the first proposition . and for the second ; 2. it is to be considered , that if the very substance of bread and wine , be really transubstantiated into the substance of christ's flesh and blood , then they do either remain that same substance of christ's flesh for ever , or else they are after some time either annihilated , or turned to corruption . but to say either of these , is flatly to deny , or oppose express scripture , which tells us , that the flesh of christ saw no corruption , and that he continueth ever . and for the first , that bread and wine , after the words of consecration , remains for ever , of the substance of christ's real body , it is no way credible . for then the body of christ must have received a mighty augmentation since its ascension . for , if all the bread which has been consecrated for almost 1700 years , shall be supposed to be all in one place , at any time ( as sure the whole flesh of christ's body is so ) it might , for magnitude , compare with a mountain . and if all the vast quantity of wine , which hath been consecrated for the like space of time , were supposed to be collected ( as sure all the blood of christ remains in his body , being impossible to be shed since he went into heaven ) it might compare with a considerable fountain of water . but both these are so very absurd , that 't is hoped no christian will affirm them ; and therefore that doctrine of transubstantiation , which necessarily infers these , and many more absurdities , is by no means to be received . if the papists shall reply , and say , that though the bread and wine be really turned into the flesh and blood , body , soul , and divinity of christ , yet it is not necessary that they remain so for ever ; i shall earnestly desire them to shew us what becomes of it then ? and i ask whether by such reply they do not make the real and glorious body of christ the most mutable thing in heaven and earth , being , according to this doctrin , subject to be really made , and unmade every day , and that in a thousand places on the same day ? if any ( who are little acquainted with the doctrine of the present church of rome ) shall question whether they do indeed hold so gross an error , as to teach , that the bread and wine in the eucharist is turned into the very substance of the divine nature of christ , as well as his humane nature ; he may see it fully asserted by a learned papist in a certain catechism , entituled , an abridgment to christian doctrine , the last ▪ edition , printed at doway , 1661. pag. 194 , 195. in these words . quest . what is the blessed eucharist ? answ . it is the body and blood of jesus christ ; true god , and true man , whole christ , under the outward forms of bread and wine . quest . in what manner is christ present under these forms ? answ . by the true and real presence of his divine and human nature , and not figuratively only , as some would have it . god in mercy open the eyes of all that are thus blinded with the doctrine of transubstantiation ; which word transubstantiation , the papists confess is not found in scripture . see the said catechism , pag. 196. papist query 6. baptist anti-query 6. whether vniversality both for time and place , be not an evident mark of the true church ? what church can you name that hath that mark ? and whether the woman which st. john saw ( called mystery bablyon ) be not meant of rome ? and whether her cup was not universally received , so that all nations were made drunk thereby ? papist query 7. baptist anti-query 7. whether you have really this mark ? that is , whether you can fetch out of all ages , and nations , professors of your religion ; in particular you are desired to name but one , or two in the first six hundred years after christ of your profession ; for example , such as held the sole sufficiency of scripture for the deciding controversies , and denied the lawfulness and vsefulness of infant-baptism ? whether any man can shew this mark , as it is here called for , without the help of human history ? and whether human history be infallibly true , so as to be a ground for divine faith ? and whether those human records which concerned christian religion for the first three hundred years after christ were not the most of them burnt by the persecutors of christians ? and whether those which remain have not been much altered ? and whether they are not in many things contradictory ? also , whether infant-baptism was so much as heard of in the first century , and then how should any be named which denied the usefulness of it in this age ? and whether the first clear mention of it be not from tertullian ? and whether the learned do not confess that he opposed it in the third century as an irrational and unwarrantable custom ? also , whether that church , whose manner of admitting persons into her communion , her constitution and government , are according to the scriptures , mat. 28. 19 , 20. heb. 6. 1 , 2 , &c. be not the true church of christ ? and whether the baptized churches ( commonly called anabaptists ) do not excel in these particulars , all other churches whatsoever ? of all the marks of the church , so much stood upon by the papists , this of antiquity leads , and indeed it is of that importance , that if they fail of this mark they are like to miss all the rest , and that they must fail of the best antiquity , in the case of their baptism ( without which they can have no true church ) will with much ease be made evident . 1. because by their own confession infant-baptism ( which is the baptism of the present roman-church ) is not grounded upon the scripture . here they fail of scripture-antiquity , which is the best . 2. because they have not one credible witness for infant-baptism ▪ in the first century after christ ▪ 3. because it is acknowledged by themselves , that they have changed the manner of the administration of baptism from dipping to a little sprinkling , which indeed is no baptism . whereas on the contrary , the best antiquity is as clear for our baptism [ i. e. believers baptism ] as the light of the sun , many thousands of believers being baptized by john baptist , and more by christ ( or his appointment ) john 3. 23. & 4. 1. three thousand believers baptized in one day , act. 2. 40. and multitudes of believers being baptized in every age since the institution of baptism , yea all the antient fathers for the first three hundred years , ( if not for the first six hundred years ) after christ were baptized believers , so that i should think the gates of hell cannot prevail against our church in the case of baptism , whether we consider the subject , manner , end and use of holy baptism , whereas , the only witness which is pretended by my learned adversary for the first century is dionysius the areopagite , mentioned , acts. 17. 34. who is said to speak thus , in a book entituled eccles . hierarch . cult . the custom of our mother the church in baptizing children is not to be contemned , nor to be judged superfluous , nor indeed to be credited , if it were not an apostolical tradition . truly this author speaks not like a man that was satisfied in this point of infant baptism , and such is the faintness of his evidence , that methinks he should leave a suspicion upon every man that reads him , that he did not know what to say , nor whereof to affirm , but leaving every man to think of the words as he pleases , we will hear what the learned have said concerning this book eccles . hirarch . first , they put it down in the catalogue of forged writings , and cajetan a papist denys that work to be written by dionysius : their reasons are , 1. because he never makes mention of st. paul in that book , who was the happy instrument by whom dionysius was converted : and yet he extolls hierotheus as his master . 2. because he writes of many orders , of popes , priests , and monks , of which the first age had none . 3. eusebius and jerome in their catalogues never make mention of this book . and gregory the great doth say it was not written by dionysius . 4. illiricus hath ten very considerable reasons , why this book was written long after the death of dionysius , one is this , the author talks often of the distinction of the quire , and the church : whereas ( saith he ) the christians had no such churches an hundred years after dionysi●s's time . this author therefore will never bear so great a weight ▪ as to prove infant baptism to have been either taught or practised by the apostles . being thus found destitute of all antiquity in the first age , let us hear what one of their own chronographers tells us concerning both the beginning of infant-baptism and the want of any evidence for infant-baptism , in this nation till more then three hundred years after christ . robert fabian , a papist , in his chron. part 5. c. 118. fol. 105. tells us , the faith had endured in brittain from the time of lucius ( the first christian king in britain ) near upon the season of four hundred years , and odd , and then in the next chapter he gives account of augustin ▪ the monk coming into england , and how he prevailed with some bishops to observe his orders . and in fol. 107. he saith , but for all this there were of them that said , that they might not leave the custom which they so long had con●inued , without the assent of all such as used the same . then austin gathered a synod , to the which came seven bishops of brittains , with the wisest men of the famous abby of bangor . but first they took counsel of an holy man , whether they should be obedient to austin or not . and he said , if you find him humble and meek , as to christ's disciple belongeth , that then they should assent to him , which meekness they should perceive in him , if he at their coming into the synod , or council , arose against them . when the said bishops entred the said synod , augustine sate still in the chair and removed not , wherefore they were wroth and disdained him , and would not obey to his requests . then he said to them , since ye will not assent to my hests generally , assent to me especially , in three things . the first is , that you keep easter day in due form and time , as it is ordained . the second , that ye give christendom to children . and the third is , that ye preach unto the anglish the word of god as i afore-time have exhorted you : and all the other deale i will suffer you to amend , and reform among your selves . but they would not thereof . from this passage it is very evident , that infant-baptism came not into this nation till about four hundred years after the gospel was first received here ; and therefore the papists must needs fail of antiquity here , and must , ( if they will do us right ) give place to the baptized believers , not only in the case of believers-baptism , but also in respect of the denial of baptism to infants , seeing these seven bishops , and the wisest men of bangor withstood augustine the monk , in that point then , as we withstand the papists in that point now . and as we have suffered many hard things , even to the burning of our bodies in smithfield , for bearing witness to the ancient and true baptism of christ , even so it fared very ill with those that withstood infant-baptism , &c. in the days of austin ; for fabian relates how they were many hundreds of them murdered ; and mr. fox seems to lay the fault upon austin . i conclude with these two short arguments , 1. the present church of rome cannot possibly prove her self to be the true church of christ ; ergo , the present church of rome is not the true church of christ . 2. the present church of rome hath no true baptism ; ergo , she is no ▪ the true church of christ . let the papists defend their present church against these arguments [ the grounds whereof are delivered truly in the precedent discourses ] without which , all they can say , will signifie little ; for what power soever the church hath , it is little to them , unless they make good proof that they are the true church of jesus christ . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a41780-e330 * it is said of the roman christians , that the light of piety shined in their minds when they heard peter , but they were not satisfied with once hearing neither satisfied with the vnwritten doctrine that was d●livered ▪ but earnestly besought st. mark , ( whose gospel is now in ure ) that he would leave in writing unto them the doctrine which they had received by preaching , &c. euseb . hist . l. 2. chap. 15. we see that the church of rome esteemed the gospel in writing , above the delivery of it in preaching , though they heard it from peter himself . sure they are not the same now as then ▪ for tradition ( from whom it's hard to say ) is more now to them than the scripture . and the scripture nothing to them , but as delivered and interpreted by tradition . notes for div a41780-e3050 * the principles of the doctrine of christ , repentance , faith , doctrine of baptisms , laying on of hands , resurrection of the dead , eternal judgment . christ as received in the power and order of these principles , becomes a foundation to his church , in which respect the principles are here called the foundation also . mark 16. 15. rom. 10. 17. joh. 17. 3. acts 2. 38. tit. 2. 12. mat. 28. 19 , 20. 1 cor. 2. 2. rom. 6. 4. joh. 3. 3 , 5. eph. 5. 26. mat. 28. 18. mat. 28. 18. act. 2. 28. act. 22. 16. rom. 12. 13. heb. 10. 22. acts 2. 38. act. 8. act. 19. gal. 3. 14. mat. 20. 22 , 23. 1 cor. 15. acts. 17. 31. 1 cor. 5. 10. acts. 2. 40. mark ▪ 1. 5. acts : 8. 36 , 37. mark 1. 15. john 3. 23. acts 8. 38. mat. 28. 19. acts 20. 7. gal. 3. 13. heb. 10. 12 , 14. mat. 26. 26. 1 cor. 11. 23 , 24. john 6. 35. 1 cor. 11. 26. 1 cor. 11. 25. 1 cor. 10. 14 , 15 , 16 , 17. mat. 26. 30. notes for div a41780-e7510 dr. willet synops . papis . p. 561. acts 2. 27. heb. 7. 24. this catechise is printed with the approbation of william hide . d. d. president of the english colledge at doway ▪ the present baptized believers only do hold to the old religion at least in the point of sacred baptism felo de se, or, mr. richard baxter's self-destroying manifested in twenty arguments against infant-baptism / gathered out of his own writing, in his second disputation of right to sacraments by john tombes. tombes, john, 1603?-1676. this text is an enriched version of the tcp digital transcription a62868 of text r33836 in the english short title catalog (wing t1806). textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. the text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with morphadorner. the annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. this text has not been fully proofread approx. 145 kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from 22 1-bit group-iv tiff page images. earlyprint project evanston,il, notre dame, in, st. louis, mo 2017 a62868 wing t1806 estc r33836 13576588 ocm 13576588 100458 this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons 0 1.0 universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase 1, no. a62868) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set 100458) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, 1641-1700 ; 1053:11) felo de se, or, mr. richard baxter's self-destroying manifested in twenty arguments against infant-baptism / gathered out of his own writing, in his second disputation of right to sacraments by john tombes. tombes, john, 1603?-1676. [5], 37 p. printed by henry hills ..., london : 1659. imperfect: pages stained. reproduction of original in the union theological seminary library, new york. eng baxter, richard, 1615-1691. infant baptism -early works to 1800. baptists -controversial literature. a62868 r33836 (wing t1806). civilwar no felo de se. or, mr. richard baxter's self-destroying; manifested in twenty arguments against infant-baptism, gathered out of his own writing tombes, john 1659 28019 83 45 0 0 0 0 46 d the rate of 46 defects per 10,000 words puts this text in the d category of texts with between 35 and 100 defects per 10,000 words. 2004-11 tcp assigned for keying and markup 2004-12 aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images 2005-02 mona logarbo sampled and proofread 2005-02 mona logarbo text and markup reviewed and edited 2005-04 pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion felo de se. or , mr. richard baxters self-destroying ; manifested in twenty arguments against infant-baptism , gathered out of his own writing , in his second disputation of right to sacraments . by john tombes , b. d. psalm 64. 8 , 9. so they shall make their own tongues to fall upon themselves : all that see them shall flee away . and all men shall fear , and shall declare the work of god , for they shall wisely consider of his doings . london : printed by henry hills , next door to the sign of the peacock in aldersgate-steeet , 1659. to the christian reader . master richard baxter in his second disputation of right to sacraments , begins thus ; it may seem strange that after 1625. years use of christian baptism , the ministers of the gospel should be yet unresolved , to whom it doth belong ; yet so it is . and i observe that it is a question , that they are now very sollicitous about , and i cannot blame them , it being not onely about a matter of divine appointment , but a practical of such concernment to the church . the true reason hereof seems to be , that ministers have for many ages left the true baptism of believers which christ appointed , and like michal , instead of it have substituted an image or idol of their own , to wit , infant baptism , which being quite besides the rule of christ , matth. 28. 19. mark 16. 15. and the apostles practice throughout the acts of the apostles , they have been at a loss about the ground of it , and almost at daggers drawing about the use of it . as it happens to fellow-travellers , when they are all out of the right way , one conjectures this way they should go , another that , and sometimes they are at hot disputos and contentions about their way , and many by-ways are attempted , yet still the farther they go the more out of the way , till they come into the road again : so it hath been with baptizers of infants ; they are fallen into many new devices to maintain infant baptism , the ancients with the papists imagining that by it gods grace was given , and that it was necessary to save the child from perishing , the lutherans that by baptism a seed of faith and some relative grace was given to infants ( to which doctor samuel ward , bishop davenant , doctor cornelius burges , master thomas bedford , master james cranford , and others have of late much inclined ) others opposing these have fallen into as bad conceits of the covenant of gospel grace , as made to a believer and his seed , baptisms succession to jewish circumcision , and fetching a rule from thence , as others from the jewish baptism . master baxter having found these unsafe to rest on , sub they will bring the assertors to the avouching jewish tenets , hath devised another ( as he conceives ) more refined and subtile way , making infants disciples of christ mediately by the parents , or proparents ( as his new term is ) faith ( which he never proves ) and an imagined ordinance or law of infants visible church-membership ( no where extant ) unrepealed , and in following these by-ways , they have been at variance among themselves . tertullian , and gregory nazianzen onely allowing infant baptism in case of manifest danger of imminent death , others to take away original sin , baptizing all , weak or strong , believers or unbelievers children ; which had almost quite thrust baptism of believers out of the world , and under colour of christening , ( as they fasly term their infant baptism ) and making christian souls by throwing water on them , they have so polluted the churches of god with the dregs of the nations , i mean , innumerable ignorant , scandalous , prophane , superstitious haters , scorners , and persecutors of christianity , that nothing but the mighty power of god is sufficient to purge the churches of god of that loathsome and infectious filth , which these have brought into it . the papists themselves do in a sort confess that infant baptism is an aberration from the first rule , in that they count it not perfect till their mimical , and ludicrous sacrament of confirmation be added , which was used with some reformation in respect of the right , and disclaiming of some errours affixed to it , and with the appointment of catechizing by the late bishops , and from them termed bishopping , though without any remarkable emendation of the intrusion of ignorant , ungodly , unchristian persons into the society of christians and the lords supper . some of those who of late have sought reformation herein , begin to devise how they may remedy this evil , and yet keep the multitude in their communion , by refining that which is called confirmation . to this purpose , lately is published by master jonathan hanmer , an exercitation or confirmation , to which master george hughes , master richard baxter , and master ralph venning , have prefixed their epistles ; concerning which , how he is mistaken in the laying on of hands used by the ancients , and the application of heb. 6. 2. to confirmation after infant baptism , is perceptible by sect. 23. of the second part of my review , and sundry passages in his own book , in which many things besides are vented without proof , about difference between the church of infants and adult members , of the effect of confirmation , of compleat and incompleat visible church-members , &c. the errors of which it is unnecessary to refute , there being no proof of them offered , but his own and other divines mistakes , and the main of the design being to set up another humane inventi●n , which hath no precept or promise of god , that he may uphold or colour over an old corruption . it pleased god lately to begin to bring the truth concerning baptism of believers to light in this nation , which stirred up many to contend for infant baptism , and having , as they imagined ( though the three parts of my review now published do sufficiently shew they are deceived ) made that sure , they have of late fallen to dispute whose infants are to be baptized . mr. thomas hooker , mr. cobbet , mr. firmin , and others , pleading against the baptism of the infants of the national and parochial church-members , and some of them restraining it to infants of inchurched church-members , and those who are judged to be real visible saints , have been opposed by master rutherford , master cawdery , master blake , and others . master blake to maintain his tenet , hath asserted that a dogmatical faith intitles to baptism : to oppose which , master baxter , however in his letter to me he pretends the unpleasantness and non-necessity of meddling any more about the point of infant baptism , the want of time and health for work of greater moment , that he might decline ●●●●ing where his law of infants visible church-membership unrepealed is , and thinks a man cannot justifie it to lay out the hundreth part , or perhaps the thousandth part of his time , study , talk , or zeal , upon this question , yet here he blames not them that are sollicitous about it , being of divine appointment and practical , of such concernment to the church , and hath himself , besides his apology before this last year , published a large book of disputations concerning right ●o sacraments , the second whereof is against master blake ; which though it was intended onely to overthrow his tenet , yet indeed the middle terms and proofs of his arguments do beat down his own tenet of infant baptism , and direct into the right way of restoring believers baptism , to demonstrate which , that those who have adhered to mr. baxter may see how ill master baxter hath dealt with them , and may , if god give them wisdom to discern the truth , be brought into the right way of believers baptism , is this writing framed , in which thou hast presented to thee , a remarkable instance of gods providence , in clearing truth by the pen of its most eminent adversary , and of his he●●●le●● writing , not observing how his own arguments against another sight against himself . the urging thereof , is that way which logicians●●prove of , and against the person is ever counted a good plea to argue for his own condemnation out of his own mouth , and in this matter is good as to the thing , it being not onely asserted by him , but also largely proved . in the publishing hereof the●e is no more wrong done to him , then was done by bishop morton in his apology , in aliedging the romanists words in their writings , as an advoca●e for the protestants , against themselves , but much right to the truth and church of god ; nothing i●●ere set down as his but his own words , what is added be may discern'd by the different letor some other mark . his caution , that he means his propositions in the case of baptism of adult persons , and that he hath elsewhere proved infant baptism , are without wrong to him left out , sith his arguments do as strongly prove there should be none but adult baptism , as that none should be baptized upon the profession of a bare dogmatical faith ; for though his aim be onely to prove that the faith professed which intitles to baptism must be justifying , yet his arguments to prove this prove more , that none but such as profess such faith are to be baptized , and that this profession is to be by each baptized in his own person , and no other to be baptized . not one text he brings proves that a parents or proparents profession doth intitle to baptism ; what he hath disputed elsewhere for infant baptism is all now answered and published in the three parts of my review ; no where doth he prove ( though that is it be should chiefly have proved ) that in order to baptism a parents or proparents profession is by god allowed as the infants own , but still be supposeth it , which is the main point to be proved , which logicians know is of all fallacies the grossest , to wit , the begging of the question . yet lately master baxter hath printed a book about confirmation , in which he dictates many things which he should prove , of infant visible church-members and their priviledges , and repeats his ol● arguments for infant baptism , and acknowledging onely his sorrow for provoking words , saith he will give some account , and in his preface to his book of justification tells the reader , he shall yet vindicate his papers written to me , where he gives some reason also of printing my animadversions on his aphorisms of justification . his sorrow for his provoking words is some good sign of gods touching his heart , and so far as belong to my person i heartily forgive him , though they have been extreamly injurious to me , to the tr●th and church of god . and for my animadversions he hath now printed , he may understand that i intend ( if god vouchsafe me life , and strength , and leisure ) to shew the insufficiency of his answers . if he give an account and vindicate his papers , i expect he should do it otherwise then he did in his praefestinantis morator , and his usual fashion is . let him do that which becomes a replicant , set down mine own words to which he answer , and answer them fully and distinctly without interrogations & exclamations , proving such distinctions , definitions , assertions , expositions , as i deny , and making good by solid proof his arguments , which that learned man mentioned in my preface to the third part of my review counted not like an argument for infant baptism , and allows me to tell him , that if he will choose his best argument , he is ready to demonstrate his censure of his book to have been just . in the mean time i judge it necessary that this book be printed , that if god shall vouchsafe him such mercy he may understand his error from his own writing , and the reader may judge whether the lord doth not now abundantly refute infant baptism , and require him to practise that command of christ of being baptized after believing , which however now reproached , was by all christians observed heretofore with much zeal and conscience of their duty and honor , and is commended to him from christ and his apostles . remember the words of christ , john 14 ▪ 15. if ye love me keep my commandments . luke 6. 46. and why call ye me lord lord , and do not the things which i say ? matth. 15. 9. in vain do they worship me , teaching for doctrines the commandments of men . farewel . london , 12th . moneth , the 21. day , 1658. thine in our lord , john tombes . felo de se. master baxter of right to sacraments , disp. 2. pag. 53. argum. 1. if we must not baptize any who profess not true repentance , then must we not baptize any infants ; but the antecedent is true . therefore , &c. the consequence of the major , is manifest , sith this proposition on which it depends , infants profess not true repentance , is manifest by sense . the antecedent is easily proved from scripture , and i know not whether any protestant deny it . i prove 1. that repentance , 2. and such as is proper to the effectually called is necessary to be professed by all that we may baptize ; i will joyn the proof of both together . argum. 1. if john baptist required the profession of true repentance in men before he would baptize them , then so must we : but john did so , therefore the consequence is clear . 1. for either john● baptism and christs were the same , as most of our divines against the papists do maintain ( though zanchy , and some few more follow the judgement of the ancient doctors in this ) or as calvin institut , saith , the difference seems to be but this , that john baptized them into the messiah to come , and the apostles into the name of the messiah already come . 2. or if the difference be greater we may argue a fortiori , from the more forcible : if johns baptism required a profession of repentance , then much more christs ; for certainly christ required not less then john , not did he take the impenitent into his kingdom whom john excluded . the antecedent i prove . 1. from mark 1. 3 , 4. he preached , {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , the baptism of repentance unto the remission of sins . and doubless that repentance which is in remissionem pecatorum , unto the remission of sins , is true special repentance . one of our divines , and many of the papists have sound another evasion : that is , that john did engage them to repent , but not requiring a profession of repentance as foregoing baptism ; but this is against the whole current of expositors , ancient and modern , and 2. against the plain scope of the text . the words in matth. 3 6. are [ they were baptized of him in jordan , confessing their sins ] this confession was with , yea before their baptism ; and this confession was the profession of repentance that john required . maldonate on the text , having first railed at calvin and slandered him , as turning baptism into preaching , ( as if he had expounded johns baptizing , not of water baptism but preaching , when he onely shews that both should go together ) doth tell the protestants that they cannot prove by this text that confession went before baptism , because it is named after ; but that he might not seem utterly impudent , he confesseth that the thing is true , and that is the sense of the text , and this he confesseth because he must rather be a faithful expositor , then a subtile adversary . and if any should say that it 's onely confession that 's required , which is no certain sign of true repentance , i answer : when john saith ▪ if we confess our sins , he is faithfull and just to forgive us our sins ] he to●k that confession to be a sign of true repentance , and our expositors and the ancients befor them agree , that it was such a confession as was conjunct with a detestation and renouncing of the sin , and it is expounded by that of acts 19. 18. as grotius noteth , to have a special detestation of the sin accompanying it , where to the word {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} is added {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , confessing and shewing their deeds . and it may suffice that the baptism to which this confession was required , is the baptism of repentance . but it is objected that in the 11. vers. of matth. 3. it is said by john [ i baptize you with water to repentance ] therefore it is but an engagement of them to it for the future . answ. our expositors have fully shewed that this signifieth no more , but [ i baptize you upon your present profession of repentance , to newness of life ] for that this profession did go before is proved already , & then the rest can be no more , than the continuance of repentance and exercise of it in newness of ●ife , which they are engaged to for the future : onely if any falsly profess it at present his own confession is an engagement to it as a duty . grotius saith , that [ {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} potest non incommode exponi hoc modo , baptizo vos super professione paenitentiae quam facitis , unto repentance may commodiously be thus expounded ; i baptize you upon profession of repentance , which ye make . the plain meaning is in a word [ i do by baptism initiate you into the state of repentance , or of penitents ] but christ shall give the holy ghost ( as it was poured forth ) and so ( as pelargus speaks in matth. 3. against salm●ron ) we maintain johns baptism to be effectual , being the baptism of repentance to remission of sin : and that it was true repentance that he required appeareth further by the fruits of it , that he calleth from the ph●ri●ees , matth. 3. 6 , 7 , 8 , 9. lastly , i shall prove anon that god hath not appointed us to baptize any upon a promise of repentance or faith , before they profess actual faith and repentance , nor are they fit for such a covenant . argum. 2. for the proof of the necessity of a profession of repentance before baptism , is this : if jesus christ hath by scripture , precept , and example , directed us to baptize those that profess true repentance and no other , then we must baptize them and no other : but the antecedent is true , therefore to is the consequent . all that requireth proof is of the antecedent , which i prove from an ●numeration of those texts that do afford us this direction ( besides the fore-mentioned . ) 1. jesus christ himself did by preaching repentance prepare men for baptism , end for his kingdom , as john before began to do , matth. 4. 17. so matth. 1. 15. the kingdom of god is at hand , repent ye and believe the gospe● ; and to that end he sent his apostles and other preachers , mark 16. 12. acts 17. 30. luke 24. 47. repentance and remission is to be preached to all ●●tions in his name ▪ and baptism which is for the obsignation of remission of ●●n , according to the appointed order , comes after repentance . and when it is said by john . [ i baptize you with water to repentance , but he shall baptize you with the holy ghost ] matth. 3. 11. mark 1. 8. luke 3. 16. it implieth that christs baptism comprehended johns and somewhat more . in acts 2. 37 , 38. when the jews were pricked in their heart ( which was a preparatorie repentance ) and said to peter and the rest of the apostles [ men and brethren what shall we do ? ] peter saith to them , repent , and be baptized every one of you in the name of jesus christ for the remission of sins ] so that we must require and expect true evangelical repentance to be professed before baptism . for verse 41. it s added [ then they that gladly received his word were baptized ] so that he baptized none that to outward appearance did not gladly receive that word , which could not be without a profession of that repentance . and he that hence perswadeth to repent and be baptized for remission , doth in the next chapter , verse 19. require them to repent , and be converted , that their sins may be blotted out , shewing what kind of repentance it is that he meaneth ; and as the work of general preachers to the unbelieving world is sometimes called a disciplining of nations , which goeth before baptizing them , matth. 28. 19 , 20. so it is in other places called a preaching of repentance and commanding all men every where to repent , acts 17. 30. an opening of mens eyes and turning them from darkness to light , and from the power of satan unto god , that they may receive remission ( obsigned in baptism ) acts 26. 18. 1. repent and turn to god , verse 20. and if it was the sum of pauls preaching to the unbaptized [ repentance toward god , and faith toward the lord jesus christ ] acts 20. 21. so that it is apparent that they took the profession or appearance of both faith and repentance as prerequisite to baptism , and still this same repentance is it that hath the remission of sin connexed , acts. 5. 31. luke 24. 47. its repentance unto life , acts 11. 18. and when the apostles compare johns baptism with christs , they still acknowledge johns to be baptism of repentance , acts 13. 24. and 19. 4. and when the apostle doth purposely recite the principle of our religion he doth it in this order . heb. 6. 1 , 2. [ the foundation of repentance from dead works and saith towards god , of the doctrine of baptisms , &c. ] argum. 3. they that before they are baptized must renounce the world , the flesh and the devil , must profess true evangelical repentance ( i mean still such as hath a promise of pardon and salvation ) but all that are baptized must renounce the world , flesh and devil , of which we shall have occasion to say more anon . argum. 4. they that profess to be buried with christ in baptism , and to rise again , do profess true repentance ; but all that are baptized must profess to be buried with him and rise again , therefore , &c. the major is proved in that to be buried and risen with christ , signifieth , a being dead to sin and alive to god , and newness of life : and it is not onely an engagement of this for the future , but a profession also of it at the present . this with the rest we thus prove , col. 2. 11 , 12 , 13. in whom ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands , in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of christ , buried with him in baptism , wherein also you are risen with him through the faith of the operation of god , who hath raised him from the dead , and you being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh hath he quickened together with him , having forgiven you all trespasses . where note 1. that this is spoken to all the church of the colossians ▪ and therefore they are presumed to be what they profess and appear to be . 2. that the putting of the body under the water did signifie our burial with christ and the death and putting off of our sins ; and though we now use a less quantity of water , yet it is to signifie the same thing , or else we should destroy the being of the sacrament . so also our rising out of the water signifieth our rising and being quickned together with him . 3. note also that it is not onely an engagement to this hereafter , but a thing presently done . they were in baptism buried with christ , and put off the body of sin , and were quickned with him ; and this doth all suppose their own present profession to put off the body of sin , and their consent to be baptized on these terms . the like we have in rom. 6. chapter 4. 5. know ye not that so many of us as were baptized into jesus christ were baptized into his death ? therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death , that like as christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the father , even so we also should walk in newness of life ; for if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death , we shal be also into the likeness of his resurrection . here also it is evident , 1. that all the members of the visible church are supposed to be baptized into christ , and into his death , & so to be buried with him by baptism into death & planted together into the likeness of his death . 2. and that this is not supposed to be onely an engagement for the future , but a present entrance into the state of mortification and vivification wherein they were to proceed by newness of life ; and therefore verse 5 , 6 , 7 , 8 , 11. they are supposed to have the old man crucified with christ that the body of sin might be destroyed , and that henceforth they should not serve sin , and that they are so dead as to be freed from sin , as to the servitude thereof . and that they must reckon themselves dead to sin , but alive to god . he that readeth the whole chapter with judgement and impartialitie , will soon discern that true repentance and abrenuntiation of the service of sin , was to be professed by all that would be baptized ; and that thereupon they sealed their own profession and covenant by the reception of baptism , as christ sealed his part by the actual baptizing them ; and that hereupon they are by the apostles all called and supposed such as they professed themselves to be . argum. 5. if it be the very nature of baptism to signifie and seal both the present putting off the body of sin , and present putting on christ , then the profession of true repentance must needs precede or concur with baptism : but the former is certain ; of which more anon . i conclude then that both scripture , and the very signs themselves , and the common consent of the church do shew that true repentance and present repentance must be professed by all those that we may baptize . pag. 62. argum. 2. my first argument was from the necessity of a profession of true repentance . the 2. shall be from the equipollent terms , a description to the thing described , thus : we must baptize no man that first professeth not to believe in god the father , son , and holy ghost : but no infant professeth to believe in god the father , son , and holy ghost ; therefore we must baptize no infant : the minor is manifest by sense . the major is proved from matth. 28. 19. where this is made the form of the words in baptism , or at least the end , and that which we must insist on ▪ calvin on the words yields the anabaptists that faith is put justly before baptism , nam alioqui mendax essot , figuraque remissionem peccatorum & spiritus donum afferes incredulis , qui nondum essent christi membra . for otherwise he should speak false , and the figure should bring remission of sins , and the gift of the spirit to unbelievers , who were not members of christ . and that , non abs re , patris , filii & spiritus expressa hic fit mentio , quia aliter baptismi vis apprehendi non potest , quam si a gratuita patris miserecordia initium fiat , qui nos per filium sibi reconciliat , deinde in medium prodeat christus ipse cum mortis suae sacrificio , & tandem accedat etiam spiritus sanctus per quem nos abluit & regenerat ; denique suorum omnium bonorum consor●es faciat . not from the matter , here is express mention made of the father , son , and spirit , because otherwise the efficacie of baptism cannot be apprehended , but by beginning from the fathers free mercy , who reconciles us to himself by his son , and then that christ himself come between with the sacrifice of his death , and then at last the holy spirit also approach , by which he washeth and regenerates us , and last of all makes us partakers of his benefits . it appeareth by comparing matth. 28. 19. with rom. 6. 3. and 1 cor. 1. 13 , 14 , 15. and 10. 2. that to be baptized into the name of the father , son , and holy ghost , is not onely to be baptized by their authority , but also to be thus initiated into the relation which the church standeth in to them , and to be consecrated to the father , son , and holy ghost , as musculus , diodate , the assembly of divines annotations , and the generality of expositors do express . see doctor hammond , pract. catech. lib. 6. 5. 2. and especially on matth. 28. 19. grotius at large , and that it comprehendeth or presupposeth a profession of believing son and holy ghost . for no man can devote himself solemnly by our ministry to the holy trinity , that doth not first profess to believe in them : therefore the chuch over taught the catechumeni the creed first , in which they profess to believe in god the father , son , and holy ghost . and before they actually baptized them , they asked them whether they believed in god the father , son , and holy ghost ? to which they must answer affirmatively , or not be baptized . and all that are baptized must first profess to believe in his name , and so to receive him , and not onely promise to do it hereafter . i adde that the same faith that is mentioned in the ordinary creed in the church , is meant in the baptismal profession , and to be required before baptism ; this will be confessed . 1. because the creed it self hath been this 1300. years at least professed before baptism . 2. because the creed it self is but the 3. fundamental baptismal articles mentioned , matth. 28. 19. enlarged and explained on subsequent occasions ( as sandford , and parker , de descensu have learnedly and largley proved , and grotius in matth. 28. 19. proves out of tertullian , &c. that the creed was not then in the form of words as now , though the same doctrine was used in other words , to the same uses . pag. 68. argum. 3. the foregoing argument was taken from the prerequisite profession , the next shall be taken from the very work it self , viz. the presenting and offering our selves to be baptized , and willingly receiving baptism : thus , if it be the very nature or appointed use of the ex●eanal part of baptism it self ( yea essential to it ) to signifie and profess ( among other things ) the saving faith and repentance of the baptized , then true baptism cannot go without such a profession . but the baptism of infants is without such a profession , therefore the baptism of infants is not true baptism . the minor is manifest by sense . the antecedent ( which onely requireth proof ) i prove thus : it is of the instituted nature of baptism to be in general , a professing sign as well as an engaging sign , de futuro , for the future : this i premise , as granted by all christians that i know of that have written of baptism , and then let us consider of the several parts of the sign or external ordinance , with the signification of each ; that it is essential to it to be significant and obligatory on our part , as well as on gods part , is commonly confessed . and 1. the minister doth baptize him into the name of the father , son , and holy ghost ; and the party doth consent thereto , 1. voluntarily offering himself to be bapitzed , and then 2. voluntarily receiving that baptism . and his offer of himself hereto , goeth before the ministers baptizing him , and his reception of that baptism is essential to it : so that baptism essentially containeth on his part a signal profession of consent to that which is meant in the form used by the minister [ i baptize thee into the name of the father , son , and holy ghost ] and that is , that god the father , son , and holy ghost be mine , and i be theirs , in the relations in which they are offered in the gospel to mankind ; for all confess that it is a covenant that is here sealed , and so a mutual consent which the signs are instituted by christ to signifie . christ offereth himself to be related to me as my jesus christ ; and by offering my self to baptism , and by voluntary receiving it , i do actually profess my acceptance of his offer , that is of himself so offered . god the father offereth himself to be my god reconciled in christ , and so my chief good : and by voluntary receiving baptism i do signally profess my acceptance of him so offered . the holy ghost is offered to be my sanctifyer and guide ; and by voluntary reception of baptism into his name , i do signally profess my acceptance of him so offered : so that it is a most clear case , that baptism as baptism , according to it s instituted nature and use , doth contain the persons actual signal profession of present assent to the truth of the gospel , and acceptance of god the father , son , and holy ghost as therein offered . and it containeth ( as our divines commonly maintain ) an actual signal profession that we there presently consecrate or devote , or dedicate our selves to god the father , son , and holy ghost in the foresaid relations . 2. another part of baptism is , the ministers washing the person , and the person first offering himself to be washed , and after actually receiving it , doth thereby signally profess his consent . now this washing doth essentially signifie our washing from our former filth of sin , together with the guilt ; our putting off the old man which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts of the flesh . he that signally professeth his present consent to be washed by the blood of christ from his former filthiness and guilt , and to lay by the filthiness of flesh and spirit , doth co nomine profess saving faith and repentance . but all that are baptized with the baptism of christs institution , do by the very voluntary reception of baptism , so profess ; therefore they do thereby profess saving faith and repen● 3. quad modum as to the manner ; it s commonly confessed by us to the anabaptists ( as our commentators declare ) that in the apostles times the baptized were dipped over head in the water , and that this signifieth their profession , both of believing the bu●ial and resurrection of christ , and of their own present renouncing the world and flesh , or dying to sin and living to christ , or rising again to newness of life , or being buried and risen again with christ , as the apostle expoundeth in the forecited texts of col. 2. and rom. 6. and though we have thought it lawful to disuse the manner of dipping , and to use less water , yet we presume not to change the use and signification of it : so then , he , that signally professeth to die and rise again in baptism with christ , doth signally profess saving faith and repentance . but thus do all that are baptized according to the apostles practice : therefore , &c. pag. 74. argum. 4. if we must baptize none that profess not their consent to enter themselves presently into the covenant of grace with god in christ , then we must baptize no infant , but the former is true ; therefore , &c. the consequence is manifest , sith it is manifest even by sense , that infants profess not their consent to enter themselves into the covenant of grace with god in christ . the antecedent i think will be granted by many of the papists , and it is the common doctrine of the protestants ; and therefore as to them i need not prove it . i confess , some of the anbaptists , and some few others , do question whether baptism be a seal of the covenant of grace ; but the quarrel is mostly , if not onely , about the bare word [ seal ] for they confess that in sense which we mean by sealing ; and particularly they confess , that we do in baptism enter into the convenant of god , and that it is a professing and engaging sign on our part , as well as an exhibiting , notifying , confirming sign on gods part . it is confest it is the covenant of grace we are to enter , and that there is but one covenant of grace . this master blake acknowledgeth , for all the mention of an outward covenant : it is also a confessed thing on all hands that it is god that is the first author and offerer of the covenant , that it is he that redeemed us , who made the promise or covenant of grace upon the ground of redemption ; and that it is frequently called a covenant in scripture , as it is a divine law or constitution , without respect to mans consent , as grotius hath proved in the preface to his annotations on the evangelists : much more ( out of doubt ) is it , that it is called a covenant before man consenteth , as it is a covenant offered , and not yet mutually entred ; in the former sense the word is taken properly , but in another sense and for another thing then in the later . but in the later it is taken tropically , viz. synedochically , it being but a covenant drawn up and consented to by god conditionally , and offered to us for our con●ent . it is the same covenant that is offered to us and not another , that we are called to consent to or enter in , and we cannot be truly said to enter into covenant with god if we make a new one of our own , and lay by his ; for that 's none of the covenant of god : he never offered it , nor will he ever enter it . we are i hope agreed what the covenant of grace is , as offered on gods part ( or else its great pity ; ) viz. that on the title of cre●●●n first and redemption after , we being absolutely his own , it is offered to us , that god will be our god ( our chief good and reconciled father in christ ) that christ will be our saviour ( by propitiation teaching and ruling us ) even from the guilt , filth , or power of sin , that the holy ghost will be our indwelling sanctifier , if we heartily or sincerely accept the gift and offer , that god will consent to be our god , christ to be our jesus christ , and the holy ghost to be our in-dwelling sanctifier , if we will but consent . this is no doubt the gift or covenant so offered . these things being thus premised , i come to prove not onely the inseparability but even the identity of heart covenan●ing and saving faith , and of signal external covenanting and the profession of saving faith , without which we must not baptize any . pag. 79. argum. 5. we must not baptize any without the profession of that faith and repentance which are made the condition of remission of sins . but infants make no profession of that faith and repentance which are made the condition of remission of sins , therefore no infants are to be baptized ; the minor is manifest by sense , and the major i prove thus . if we must not baptize any but intentionally for present remission of sin , then must not we baptize any without a profession of that faith and repentance which is the condition of remission . but the former is true , therefore so is the ●uer ; the consequence is past all doubt , for else we should imagine that men may have present actual pardon without that faith and repentance which are the condition of it , which subverteth much of the gospel . the antecedent i prove thus : if god hath instituted no baptism , but what is intentionally for the present remission of sin , then we must not baptize any but intentionally for the present remission of sin : but the former is true , therefore so is the later . i say [ intentionally ] in contradistinction from [ eventually , or certainly and infallibly attaining that end ] where further note , that i speak not of gods absolute decrees , as if his intention in that sense could be frustrate ; but of his ends as legislator speaking of him after the manner of men , but principally of the instituted end of his ordinances ; that is , the ends which he requireth the minister and people to use them for , and so it is our intention principally that i mention . as the gospel it self is said to be intentionally to save men , and though it condemn most , that is besides the first intention and but by accident ; and though this be principally to be spoken of the prae-imposed intentions of their conversion and salvation ; yet christ is pleased in the word to ascribe such intentions to himself as attain not their ends , as professing that he came not into the world to condemn the world , but that the world through him migh be saved : that is , to condemn them is not his direct principal intent , but onely on supposition of their wilfull final rejecting of him ; and thus he speaks partly in the habit of a rector or promiser , and partly as man , or after the manner of men : and of the intention imposed on us there is no doubt . now i shall prove the antecedent ( for the consequence is past doubt : ) and first we are confirmed in this truth , because the opponent ( whom it concerneth ) hath not proved any other baptism instituted by god , but what is for present re●ission of sins . if they can shew us one text of scripture that speaketh of any other , we shall give up all the cause ; but yet they have not done it that i know of . in the mean time we shall prove the contrary , god hath instituted but one baptism : that one baptism is for the present remission of sins , therefore god hath instituted no baptism but what is for present remission . the major is proved from ephes. 4. 5. there is one baptism . in the minor we take the words [ for remission ] not to speak of somewhat accidental , or to be intended onely by the administrator , uncertainly or but sometime . and i prove it from scripture , acts 2. 38. repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of jesus christ for the remission of sins , and ye shall receive the gift of the holy ghost , as remission is here made the end of baptism so it is present remission . for 1. it is such as is the consequent of the repentance which peter exhorteth them to , but that was present remission . 2. it was to precede the giving of the holy ghost in the sense there mentioned , therefore it was present remission . beza in loc. upon the place , saith , [ in nomen christi ] id est dans christo nomen , cujus mortis , scpulturae ac resurrectionis simus in baptizo participes , cum peccatorum remissione , nec enim hoc declarat formulam baptismi s●d finem & scopum . in the name of christ , that is , giving our name to christ , of whose death , burial , and resurrection , we are made partakers in baptism , with the forgiveness of sins , for this doth not declare the form of baptism , but the end and scope . so deodate [ in the name ] viz. [ not onely for a mark of our profession of the gospel , but also to participate of his spiritual virtue in the washing away of our sins , with which he accompanieth and ratifieth the external ceremony in those who are his ] bullinger in loc. saith , baptiz●ri in nomine domini jesu christi , est baptismatis signo testari se christo credere ad remissionem peccatorum . to be baptized in the name of the lord jesus christ , is by the sign of baptism , to testifie that we believe in christ for the remission of sins . 1. mark , it is not onely an engagement to believe hereafter , but the profession of a present faith . 2. and that not a common faith , but that which hath remission of sin . 3. and this was not an accidental separable use of baptism ; but he makes this the very exposition of baptizari in nomine jesu christi , to be baptized in the name of jesus christ . and thus he expoundeth the covenant , [ est enim baptismus pactum seu foedus gratiae , quod init inter baptizandum nobiscum christus ] for baptism is an agreement or covenant of grace , which christ enters into with us , when we are baptized . and that it is a professing sign of our true repentance , he shews before [ & rectissime conjungitur paenitentia & baptismus , quia baptismus paenitentiae signum est ] and most rightly is repentance and baptism joyned together , between baptism is the sign of repentance . calvin in loc. upon the place , per baptismum ( ut paulus docet ) crucifigitur vetus homo noster , ut in vitae novitatem resurgamus , by baptism ( as paul teacheth ) our old man is crucified , that we may rise to newness of life . rom. 6. 4. 8. item indutmus christum ipsum , g●l . 3. 27. 1 cor. 12. & passim docet scriptura esse paenitentiae quoque symbolum . also we put on christ himself , and the scripture doth up and down teach it , to be also a badge of repentance . calvin on acts 22. 16. non dubium est quin fideliter rudimentis pietatis paulum imbuerit ananias ; neque enim ver● fidei expertem baptizasset , nor doubt but ananias did faithfully instruct pa●l in the rudiments of piety , neither would he have baptize● him ▪ if he had been void of true faith . john 3. 5. [ except a man be born of water and of the spirit , he shall not enter into the kingdome of god ] though we are agreed against the papists , that christ intendeth not here to place the same necessity in baptism , as there is in or of the new birth by the spirit ; yet it is by most acknowledged , that christ doth here speak of the new birth as signified by baptism , and so hath respect to baptism , as the ordinary confirming sign : and so the text fully sheweth us , that baptism is instituted to be the sign of our present regeneration , or else it could not be said that we must be born [ of water and the spirit . ] calvin saith , most are of chrysostomes mind , who took it to be meant of baptism : ( and so did the generality of ancient expositors ) and though himself and some more think otherwise , yet as long as they take it to be a metonymical expression , the sign being put for the thing signified , it doth as well acquaint us with the use of baptism , as if it were a proper speech . bullinger in loc ▪ upon the place , saith [ hanc christi sententiam omnes pene de baptismo interpretantur ] almost all interpret this scripture of christ to baptism . beza believeth , that the text speaketh of baptism either christs or some other , but rather christs , justly doth beza in mark 1. 4. fall upon erasmus sharply , for saying [ {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} [ in ] praep●sitio praeparationem significat , non effectum : the preposition in , signifieth a preparation , and not the effect : because repentance and remission ( saith beza ) cannot be separated ; so that he took it not to be a common preparatory repentance or baptism . piscator on mark . 14. saith , it s called the baptism of repentance for remission of sin , because john preached remission of sin to the penitent and believers , praecip iebatque ut inhujus rei testimontum atque professionem baptizarentur . he concluded that they should be baptized , in testimony and profession of this thing ; and that is called {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} the baptism of repentance , id est , qui resipiscentiae testificandae atque profitenda adbibebatur : neque enim baptizabat nisi eos qui confessione peccatorum ●dita , resipiscentiam suam testatam reddebant : caeterum nomine resipiscentiae per synecdochen membri simul intelligenda est fides in christum , that is to say , was used to testifie and profess repentance ; neither did he baptize any but those who by confession of their sins testified their repentance , but by a synecdoche of a part for the whole , is also to be understood , faith in christ , and on matth. 3. 11. observe he shews that christs baptism and johns are the same , in that both have the same end and use , viz. obsignatio remissionis peccatorum & resipiscentiae , the sealing of remission of sins and repentance ; that is , as already extant , as his judgement is oft delivered ; as in his schol. on ver. 11. he expresly faith [ in resipiscentiam , id est in testimonium resipiscentiae ; ut nimi●um susceptione baptismi testatum faciatis vor resipuisse , & indies magis ac magis resipiscere velle : sed simul hic intelligendum , joannem baptizasse quoque in remissionem peccatorum , hoc est ut nimirum nomine dei testatum faceret resipiscentibus & in christum credentibus peccata ipsis remissa esse propter christum agnum dei ] unto repentance , that is , in testimony of repentance , viz. that by receiving of baptism you testifie that you have repented , and that you will daily renew your repentance more and more ; but withal we must here understand , that john did baptize also for the remission of sins , that is , that he might testifie in the name of god , to the penitents and believers in christ , that their sins were forgiven them for the sake of christ the lamb of god . and i pray mark his observation on mat. 3. 6. 8. 10 concluding our present question : [ baptismus nulli adulto conferendus est nisi prius ediderit confessionem peccatorum & fidei in christum , ac praterea promissionem sanctae vitae ] baptism is not to be administred to any of age , unless he first make confession of his sins , and of his faith in christ , and besides a promise of a holy life , which he proves . calvin on matth. 3. 6. saith [ ergo ut se rite ad baptismum offerant homines , peccatorum confessio ab illis requiritur , alioqui nihil quam inane esset ludicrum tota actio ] therefore that men may rightly offer themselves to baptism , confession of sins is required of men , otherwise the whole action would be nothing else but sport . if i had charged the guilty so of making the whole work of baptism ludicrous , they would have been highly offended ( and yet paedobaptists do so . ) paraeus on matth. 3. 5. shews that the order was that confession as a testimony of true repentance go first , and then baptism for remission of sins [ confessio postponitur ; sed {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} constructionis — confessi baptizabantur : pro , cum con●essi essent peccata , baptismum accipiebant sacramentum remissionis peccatorum : non prius baptizabantur , postea confitebantur — auditores igitur primo in testimonium resipiscentiae confitebantur sua peccata , deinde baptizabantur , tertio fide baptismi fructum suscipiebant remissionem peccatorum . docet hic locus varia . 1. quod baptismus sit sacramentum remissionis peccatorum , ex parte dei ; spondet enim deus ceu ju rejurande baptizatis remissionem gratuitam peccatorum propter christum . 2. quod sit etiam sacramentum resipiscentiae ex parte nostra ; restipulamur enim deo fidem & paenitentiam pro tanto beneficio . confession is put after , but in construction the first is to be last ; those who confessed were baptized , for when they confessed their sins , they received baptism , a sacrament of the forgiveness of their sins ; they were not baptized first , and confessed their sins after , the hearers then first confessed their sins in testimony of their repentance , then they were baptized , thirdly by faith they received the fruit of baptism ; the remission of sins : this place teacheth divers things . 1. that baptism is a sacrament of the forgiveness of sins , on gods part , for god promiseth as by an oath , to those who are baptized , a free pardon of sin for christs sake : 2. that it is also a sacrament of repentance on our part , for we again engage to god , faith and repentance , for so great a benefit ; that is , both profess it at present , and ingage to continue in it ; answering the interrogation credis ? with a credo , and not onely a credam . doest thou believe ; i do believe in the present tense , and not onely i will believe , in the future . ad sacramenta non esse admittendos impenitentes . hoc enim damus ( anabaptistis ) in ecclesiam suscipiendos & baptizandes non esse nisi praevia confessione fidei & paenitentiae : quem morem & vetus servavit ecclesia , & nostrae hodei observant , si vel judaeus vel turca adults baptismo sit ▪ initiandus . impenitents are not to be admitted to the sacraments : for this we grant to the anabaptists , that such are not to be required into the church , nor to be baptized , who have not first made confession of faith and repentance , which custom both the ancient church did observe , and ours observe at this day , if either a jew or a turk of age is to be admitted by baptism . and on verse 7. he saith , ex concione ipsa datur intelligi , multos illorum simulata paenitentia etiam baptismum petivisse : horum hypocrisin cum non ignoraret , non passus eos latere in turba , nec ad baptismum indignos admisit , sed acri objurgatione , hortatione & comminatione ad seriam resipiscentiam extimulat , & ad baptismum praeparat . from the sermon it self it s to be understood , many of them also required baptism by a feigned repentance , when as he understood their hypocrisie , he suffered them not to lurk in the croud , neither admitted he to baptism those that were unworthy of it , but stirs them up to a serious repentance , by sharp reprehension , exhorting and threatning , and so prepares them unto baptism ; after he shews , that there are hypocritae manifesti quos pastores admittere non debent sine examine , ne sacramenta prostituant , sibi & ecclesiae reatum attrahant , manifest hypocrites , whom pastors ought not to admit without examination , least they prostitute the sacraments , and contract guilt to themselves and the church . and pag. 56. against maldonate he proveth the baptism of christ and john all one ; and when maldonate saith , that john baptized in panitentiam , & baptismus praecedebat , paenitentia sequebatur , unto repentance , and that baptism went before , and repentance followed , ( confessing that in christs baptism repentance precedes ) he answereth [ that it is faise , nam etiam in joannis baptismo praecedebat paenitentiae , sequebatur baptismus ] for repentance did also precede in johns baptism , and baptism followed . 2 pet. 1. 9. it is said of the barren ungodly professor [ that he hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins , ] where i take it for a clear case , that it is the baptismal washing which the apostle there intendeth , wherein all profess to put off the old man , and to be washed from their former filthiness ; for i suppose we shall be loath to yield that it was an actual cleansing either of remission or mortification , which the apostle meaneth , lest we grant that men may fall from such a state ; and therefore it must be a sacramental washing , or cleansing , wherein the matter was appearingly and sacramentally transacted . from whence it is plain that the apostle took it for granted , that as all the baptized were visibly church-members , so were they all visibly washed from their old sins ; which sheweth both what was their own profession , and what was the stated end and use of the ordinance . the apostle saith not that [ he hath forgotten that he promised or engaged to be purged from his old sins ] but that [ he was purged ] from them . paraeus in locum , upon the place , saith , [ a veteribus peccatis purgatum , hoc est se esse baptizatum , seu se accepisse in baptismo purgationis signaculum . omnes enim baptizati debent purgari a peccatis , sicut dicuntur induere christum , gal. 3. mori cum christo , rom. 6. sensus est , qui se volutant in sceleribus , non recordantur se baptizatos esse , abnegant ergo baptismum suum ] that he was purged from his old sins , that is , was baptized , or had received in baptism the seal of purging , for all those who are baptized , ought to be purged from their sins , as they are said to put on christ , to die with christ , the meaning is , they which wallow in their sins , do not remember they were baptized , and therefore do renounce their baptism . 1 cor. 6. 11. the apostle saith of the visible church of corinth [ such were some of you , but ye are washed , but ye are sanctified , but ye are justified , &c. ] where it is evident , that all the visible members of the church are visibly washed , sanctified , justified : and i think it is clear that by washing here he hath some respect to their baptism . so that i conclude that there is no baptism to be administred without a profession of saving faith and repentance foregoing , because there is no baptism that ever christ appointed but what is for the obsignation of remission of sins , which is the consequent . master blake , pag. 171. reciteth some words of mine containing this argument , thus ; that faith to which the promise of remission and justification is made , must also be sealed to : or that faith which is the condition of the promise , is the condition in foro de● , in the court of god , of the title to the seal : but it is onely solid true faith that is the condition of the promise of remission ; therefore it is that which gives right in foro dei , in the court of god , to the seal . who would think now but master blake had given some substantial answer to this and other arguments , when himself and some others are so confident of the sufficiency of them ? his answer is this : [ to this i have answered , faith is not sealed to , but remission of sins or salvation upon condition of faith ; and when i come to speak of the sealing of sacraments , i shall ( god willing ) make this more evident , that the sacrament qua seal immediately respects our priviledges , not duties ] reply 1. is here one word of answer to any real part of this argument . is not this answer as little to the matter , as if he had talked of another subject . i think it my duty to say that ministers of the gospel do but proclaim to the church the matter of our common lamentation , and the enemies joy , when some confidently publish such kind of disputations , and others are satisfied with them ; and i must say if all were such , they should never be angred with one word of mine in opposition to their assertions , though they would maintain that the crow is white . 2. to that useless touch that he hath on a word ( whose following explication might have spared him his labour ) i may say that our divines have ordinarily maintained hitherto that there is a mutual covenanting between god and us , ( and no man more then master blake ) and that there is in the sacrament a mutual sealing ; the receiving being our seal , as the act is gods . pag. 88. argum. 6. if baptism be instituted to be a seal of the righteousness of that faith which we have yet being unbaptized , then must we baptize none that profess not a justifying faith . but no infants profess a justifying faith , therefore we must baptize no infants ; the minor is manifest by sense . the reason of the consequence is evident , in that we must use baptism onely according to its nature and to its instituted ends : the antecedent is proved thus : circumcision was instituted to be a seal of the righteousness of that faith which we have yet unbaptized . the consequence will not be denied by them whom we now deal with : because they confesse that baptism succeedeth circumcision . the antecedent is evident in rom. 4. 11. it being expresly said of abraham to whom circumcision was first given . i cannot imagine what they will say , unless it be by recourse to the anabaptists shift , to say that circumcision was instituted to this end indeed , to abraham himself , and others that were sincere , but not to all that had right to it ; but god here tells us the established use and end of his ordinance , and in such relations , the end is inseparable . and as god hath not made many sorts of baptisms or circumcisions : so neither many meer inconsistent ends ( or separable ) and we are likest to know the true end of the institution , where the institution and first example are reported to us . calvin in loc. saith , duae denique ut baptismi hodie sunt , ita olim circumcisionis erant partes , nempe , tam vitae novitatem , quam peccatorum remissionem testari : lastly , as there are two parts at this day of baptism , so of old there were two of circumcision , viz. to witness , as newness of life , so forgiveness of sins . saith piscator , in loc. upon the place , sicut olim circumcisio signum suit faeleris gratiae , & figillum quo credentibus obsignata fuit justitia fidei , hoc est , quo illi certiores sunt redditi , sibi remssa esse peccata , propter futuram satisfactionem christi , ac proinde se babere deam propitium ac foventem ; ita caetera quoque sacramenta , &c. similiter & finis seu scopus omnium sacramentorum unus idemque , viz. obsignatio justitiae fidei , quae vulgo dicitur fidei confirmatio . paraeus in loc. saith [ ita signum fuit dantis & accipientis respectu , &c. ] et [ justitia fidei est remissio peccatorum fide accepta propter redemptionem christi ] et [ sic sacramenta non sunt instituta justificandis , sed justificatis , hoc est non infidelibus sed conversis , non igiturnisi conversione & fide sumi debent : secus sigilla justitiae esse cessant : quid enim non babentibus fidem & justitiam obsignarent ? as circumcision was of old a sign of the covenant of grace , and a seal whereby was sealed the righteousness of faith to believers , that is to say , whereby they were certified that their sins were forgiven them , by receiving of the future satisfaction of christ , and therefore they had god propitious and favouring unto them , so also the other sacraments , &c. also the end or scope of all the sacraments is as one and the same , viz. the signing of the righteousness of faith , which is commonly called the confirmation of faith , so it was a sign both in respect of the giver , and receiver , &c. and the righteousness of faith is the forgiveness of sins by faith , received because of christs redemption , and so the sacraments are not instituted for those who are to be justified , but for the justified , that is , not for unbelievers , but for those which are converted , therefore are they not to be taken without conversion and saith , otherwise they were to be seals of righteousness , for what would it seal to them , who have not faith and repentance ? doctor willet , in loc. saith [ circumcision then did not confer upon him that grace which he had not , but did confirm and establish him in the grace and faith received : the sacraments then non instituta sunt justificandis , sed justificatis , are not instituted for those which are to be justified , but for them which are already justified parae . ] peter martyr is large , and makes these words rom. 4. 11. of paul to be the definition of a sacrament , to be a seal of the righteousness of faith . pag. 91. argum 7. we must baptize none but those that are first professed disciples of christ . but none are professed disciples of christ that profess not saving saith in christ , therefore we may not baptize any that profess not saving faith in christ : but no infant doth profess saving faith in christ , as is manifest by sense ; therefore no infant is a professed disciple of christ , nor must we baptize any . the major is proved from matth. 28. 19. go , disciple me all nations baptizing them ] as for those that say , they are discipled by baptizing , and not before baptizing , 1. they speak not the sense of that text . 2. nor that which is true or rational , if they mean it absolutely as so spoken , else why should one be baptized more then another ? 3. but if they mean that by heart-covenant or gods acceptance and promise they are disciples before , but not so compleatly till the covenant be sealed and solemnized , as a souldier is not so signally a souldier till he be listed , nor a king till he be crowned so fully a king , or a man and woman so fully maried till it be solemnized in the congregation ; in this sense they say the same that i am proving : men must be first disciples by the professed consent , before they are declared such by the seals or publick sacramental solemnization . and that onely the professors of saving saith are disciples , may appear by a perusal of the texts of scripture that use this word , and it will not onely by found that this which i maintain is the ordinary use of the word ( which should make it so also with us ) but that no text can be cited where any others are called the disciples of christ . for the major and minor both observe piscators definition of baptism [ on matth 28. 19. ] baptismus est sacrimentum novi testamenti , quo homines ad ecclesiam pertinentes ex mandato christi cultui veri dei , qui est pater , filius & spiritus sarctus per ministros verbi consecrantur , & in fide remissionis peccatorum & spe vitae aternae confirmantur . baptism is a sacrament of the new testament , by which those men who belong to the church , by the command of christ , are consecrated to the worship of the true god , which is the father , son , and holy spirit , by the ministers of the word , and are confirmed in the faith of remission of sins , and of hope of eternal life . and he proveth this description , per partes , by parts . 1. that is a sacrament . 2. that it belongeth to those that pertain to that church , and that onely must be baptized , qui ecclesiam fuerit ingressi , ac fidem evangelii prosessi , who are entred into the church , and have professed the faith of the gospel . which he proveth from mark 16. 16. he that believeth , and is baptized shall be saved . vult ergo ( saith he ) ut prius constet de alicujus fide quam baptizetur , unde act. 8. philippus evangelista non prius baptizare voluit eunuchum illum ethiopem quam is professus esse● fidem christi . he wills therefore , that his faith be manifested , before he be baptized , whence acts. 8. philip the evangelist would not baptize the ethiopian ennuch , before he had professed the faith of christ . calvin in loc. upon the place , saith [ bapti●●ri jubet christus qui nomen evangelii dederint , s●que professi fuerint discipulos , partim ut illis baptismus si● vitae aeternae tessera coram deo ; partim apud homines externum fidei signum : quem ad modum gratiam suam deus hoc sigillo nobis confirmat , ita quicunque se ad baptismum offerunt , vicissim quasi data syngrapha obstringunt s●am sidem ] christ commands them to be baptized , who have given up their names to the gospel , and have professed to be his disciples , partly that baptism might be to them a sign of eternal life before god , partly an external sign of faith before men , and as god confirms his grace to us by this seal , so whosoever offers himself to baptism , doth reciprocally engage his faith as it were by his bond . and after [ verum quia docere prius jubet christus quam baptizare , & tantum credentes ad baptismum vult recipi , videtur non rite administrari baptismus nisi fides pracesserit ] but because christ commands first to teach , then to baptize , and onely will have believers to be received to baptism , it seems that baptism is not rightly administred , unless faith doth precede . so that it is calvins judgement , that this very text which is the most notable copy of the apostolical commission for the baptizing of the disciple nations doth appoint that saving faith be professed before men be baptized . paraeus in locum , from mark 16. 16. sheweth that the order is , ●redere & baptizari , to believe and to be baptized . i agree with him and the rest in the main , that justifying faith must be an act of the will ( embracing or accepting an offered christ ) as well as of the understanding , and that the profession of it must go before baptism . but i shall further prove the minor from some other texts of scripture , viz. that they are not christs disciples that profess not saving faith . luke 14 26 , 27 , 33. [ if any man come to me and hate not his father and mother , and wife and children , and brothers and sisters ; yea , and his own life also , he cannot be my disciple : and whosoever doth not bear his cross , and come after me , cannot be my disciple : whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath , cannot be my disciple ] this is spoken of true disciples in heart ( the first significatum ) by him that knew the heart . from whence i argue thus : [ if none are christs disciples in heart , nor can be , but those that value him above all , and will forsake all for him if he require it , then none can be his disciples by external profession , but those that profess to esteem him above all , and to be willing to forsake all rather then forsake him : but the former is proved by the text ; the consequence is clear , in that the world hath hitherto been acquainted but with two sorts of christians , or disciples of christ ; the one such sincerely in heart , and the other such by profession , and the later are so called because they profess to be what the other are indeed , and what themselves are if they sincerely so profess . and it is the same thing professed which makes a man a professed christian , which being found in the heart doth make a man a hearty christian . john 13. 35. [ by this shall all men know that ye are my disciples , if ye love one another ] here christ giveth a certain badge by which his true disciples may be known . if onely those that love one another are true disciples in heart , then onely those that profess to love one another are disciples by profession . joh. 8. 31. if ye continue in my word then are ye ( that is you will approve your selves ) my disciples indeed ] if onely those are christs disciples indeed as to the heart , that have the resolution of perseverance , then onely those are his professed disciples that profess a resolution to persevere . but therefore all this i have said , is no more then we have ever practised , when in baptism we renounced the world , flesh , and devil , and promised to fight under christs banner to our lives end . saith piscator in john 13. 35. si pro christianis , id est , christi discipulis haberi volumus , oportet ut nos mutuo quam ardentisaime diligamus , &c. if we will be accounted christians , that is , christs disciples , we ought most ardently to love one another . object . any one is a disciple that is willing to learn of christ . answ. no such matter : in an improper sense you may so call them , but not in scripture sense ; where 1. a disciple and a christian are all one , acts 11. 26. but every one that is willing to learn of christ is not a christian , therefore not a disciple . 2. a disciple of christ is one that will take him for the great prophet of the church [ which whosoever heareth not shall be cut off from gods people ] and will learn of him as of the christ : but so will not all that will learn of him : for a man that taketh christ but for a common wise man , as socrates or plato may be willing to learn of him : and so may be his disciple in another sense , but not in the christian sense as a christian . pag. 96. argum. 8. we ought not to baptize those persons that do not so much as profess their forsaking of the childhood and kingdom of the devil : but no infant doth profess its forsaking of the childhood and kingdom of the devil , as is manifest by sense , therefore we ought to baptize no infant . the maior is proved thus : if we must baptize none but for present admission into the kingdom of christ , then we must baptize none but those that promise a present departure from the kingdom of the devil ; but the former is true , therefore so is the later . the antecedent is granted by those that i have to do with ; the reason of the consequence is evident , in that all the world is divided into these two kingdomes , and they are so opposite that there is no passing into one but from the other . the minor of the first argument i prove thus . all they are visiby in the kingdom of the devil , or not so much as by profession removed out of it , who profess not a removal from that condition in which the wrath of god abideth on them , and they are excluded by the gospel from everlasting life , but such are all that profess not a justifying faith . the major is proved , in that it is the condition of the covenant of grace performed that differenceth the members of christs kingdom from satans ; and so it is that condition profest to be performed that visibly differenceth them before men . it is the promise of grace that bringeth them out of satans kingdome , therefore it is onely done visibly to those that profess the performance of the condition : moreover to be out of satans kingdom visibly , is to be visibly from under his government , but those that profess not saving faith are not visibly from under his government . lastly , to be visibly out of satans kingdom , is to be visibly freed from his power , as the executioner of gods eternal vengeance ; but so are none that profess not saving faith . the minor is proved from john 3. 36. where it is plain , 1. that the unbelief spoken of is that which is opposed to saving faith , even to that saith which hath here the promise of everlasting life , 2. and that this leaves them visibly under the wrath of god . so in mark 16. 16. compared with matth. 27. 19. in the later christ bids them make him disciples , and in the former he describeth those that are such , and those that remain still in the kingdom of satan [ he that believeth and is baptized shall be saved , and he that believeth not shall be damned ] here it is evident that the unbelief threatned is that which is contrary to [ and even the privation of ] the faith that salvation is expresly promised to , and that all that profess not this saving faith are not so much as professedly escaped a state of damnation , and that this is the differencing character of christs disciples to be baptized [ of which yet more afterwards . ] pag. 98. argum. 9. if it be the appointed use of all christian baptism to solemnize our mariage with christ , or to seal or confirm our union with him , or ingraffing into him , then must we baptize none that profess not justifying faith [ because this is necessarily prerequisite , and no other can pretend to union , mariage or ingraffing into christ ] but no infant doth profess justifying faith , as is manifest by sense ; therefore we must baptize no infant . both the antecedent and consequent are evident in gal. 3. 27 , 28 , 29. for as many of you as have been baptized in christ , have put on christ : ye are all one in christ jesus , and if ye be christs then are ye abrahams seed , and heirs according to promise . here 1. we see that it is not an accidental or separable thing for baptism to be our visible entrance into christ , our putting him on , our admittance ( by solemnization ) into the state of gods children and heirs according to promise . for this is affirmed of all the baptized with true christian baptism . if we be truely baptized , we are baptized into christ , if we are baptized into christ , then we are christs , and have put on christ , and are all one in christ , and are abrahams seed , and heirs according to promise . if any object that the apostle speaks this but of some of them , even of the regenerate , because he saith [ as many of you ] i answer , it is manifest that he speaks of all , 1. because it was of all them that were baptized into christ , 2. he expresly saith as much in the next foregoing words [ ver . 26. for ye are all the children of god by faith in christ jesus ] to which the words recited are annexed as the proof [ for as many of you as have been baptized into christ , have put on christ ] the assumption is implied [ but you have all been baptized into christ ] therefore ye have all put on christ , and so in him are all the children of god . 2. note that they are the special gifts of saving grace that are here ascribed to all the baptized . 3. note also that all this is said and proved to be by faith . 4. note also that it is expresly said to be a justifying faith , before vers . 24. [ that we might be justified by faith . ] indeed this text affordeth us divers arguments . 1. the apostle supposeth all the baptized to profess a justifying faith , among the galatians , therefore so must we suppose of others , and expect that they do it . the antecedent is proved from vers . 24 , 25 , and 27. compared . 2. all the baptized are said to have put on christ , therefore they are supposed to profess that faith by which christ is put on : but that is onely justfying faith . 3. all that are duely baptized are baptized into christ , therefore they are supposed to profess that faith by which men are united , or ingraffed into christ , but that is onely justifying faith ; but the rest of the arguments here will be further touched on anon . master rutherford saith that scripture no where calleth christ the head of the visible church as such , as it is after cited . i conclude then that christ hath app●inted no baptism but what is for a visible mariage of the soul to himself ( as protestants ordinarily confess ) therefore he hath appointed no baptism but for those that profess to take jesus christ for their husband , and to give up themselves to him as his espouse : but this is a profession of justifying faith , for heartily to take christ for our head and husband is true saving faith , and proper to his own regenerate pecple if any thing in the world be so ; and no man can profess to be maried to christ that doth not profess to take him for a husband . therefore for my part i never intend to baptize any without profession of saving faith , amen . and let the lord god say so too , that mr. b●xter may baptize no more infants , nor defend so palpable an abuse , but may wipe away the reproach he hath cast on gods people and ordinance : he goes on thus . pag. 100. argum. 10. if paul account all the baptized saints or sanctified men dead with christ and risen with him , such as have put on christ , sons of god by adoption , abrahams seed , heirs according to promise and justified ; then they did all profess a true justifying faith . but no infant did profess a true justifying faith : if they did let it be sh●wed when , and where , and to whom : therefore no infant was then baptized , nor are now to be . the antecedent master blake confesseth , and i shall prove it by parts . the consequence is that which lyeth chiefly on me to prove , and i shall do both together . the apostle in the beginning of his epistle to the corinthians , and in many other places calls the whole church saints , 1 cor. 6. 11. he saith to them [ but ye are washed , ye are sanctified ] that part of the antecedent then is certain ; the consequene i prove thus . there are none called saints in all the new testament , but onely such as were in heart devoted to christ by a saving faith , or professed so much , therefore the word saint in this case must signifie onely such . if any will prove a third sort of saints , viz. such as profess a faith not saving , they must do that which i never saw done . the first and most famous signification of the word saints or sanctified in the new testament , is onely of them that are in heart devoted to christ by true faith ; therefore the borrowed , or analogical , or less proper signification ( call it what you list ) must be of that which hath the likeness or appearance of this , and that is onely the profession of it . profession maketh saints visible , or by profession , as hearty dedication to god by faith maketh real or heart saints . master blake addeth [ we read of churches of the saints , 1 cor. 14. 33. and they were taken to be church-members as soon as they made profession , as they ceased to be jews or pagans , and took them to the way of christianity , as we see , acts 2. acts 8. 12. 13. 38. ] answ. 1. they renounced the way of ungodliness , and wickedness in general by a profession of repentance , as well as the way of paganism and judaism in particular . there were no christians that professed not repentance towards god from dead works 2. we believe that there were churches of the saints , and therefore that none should be of the church that profess not to be true saints . but prove if you can that there was ever either church or church-member called saints in scripture , that had not either special sanctity or a profession of it . and as for those acts 8. you cannot prove that any of them were either called saints or baptized without a profession of a justifying faith : as shall further be shewed afterwards . the galatians i find not called saints , but to call them a church of christ or believers is equipollent : and what saints were they ? why they were all the sons of god by faith in christ jesus , having been baptized into christ , and put him on , and were all one in him , and were all abrahams seed and heirs according to the promise , gal. 3. 26 , 27 , 29. a church in scripture sense , is a society of men professing true saving faith . and thus we see what a church was , and what saints were , and what believers and disciples were supposed to be by the apostles , and what is the signification of these words in scripture , for they are all of the same extent . thus much i have said to prove that all the baptized are accounted saints , and therefore professed a saving sanctity . the second title which i mentioned follows ( of which i shall be more brief ) all the baptized are accounted to be dead and risen with christ , even dead to sin , and risen to newness of life ; therefore they all profess a saving faith . the proof of this is full in the two texts already cited , rom. 6. and col. 2. 11 , 12. rom. 6. 3. &c. how shall we that are dead to sin live any longer therein ? know ye not that so many of us as were baptized into jesus christ , were baptized into his death ? therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death , that like as christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the father , so we also should walk in newness of life . for if we have been planted together into the likeness of his death , we shall be also in the likeness of his resurection , knowing this that our old man is crucified with him , that the body of sin might be destroyed , that hence forth we should not serve sin ; for he that is dead is freed from sin . now if we be dead with christ , we believe that we shall also live with him . likewise , reckon ye also your selves to be dead indeed unto sin , but alive unto god through jesus christ our lord . here is a full report of the use of baptism , and the profession of all that are baptized , and the state they are supposed to be in . so that i cannot speak it plainlyer then the words themselves do . so col. 2. 11 , 12. which i shall not stay to recite , because it is to the same purpose , and before cited . the third title mentioned in the argument is this : all that are baptized have professedly put on christ ; therefore they have professed saving faith . the antecedent is expressed gal. 3. 23. [ for as many as have been baptized into christ have put on christ ] the consequence is proved in that to put on christ heartily , is to be made true partakers of him , and living members of him , therefore to profess this is inseperable from the profession of saving faith ; yea by that faith he is truly put on . putting on christ is the same with [ putting on the new man , which after god is created in righteousness and true holiness , being renewed in the spirit of our minds , ephes. 4. 20 , 21 , 22 , 23 , 24. col. 3. 10. it is putting on the new man which is renewed in knowledge according to the image of him that created him ] and putting on the lord jesus christ is put for the state of sanctity in opposition to a fleshly life , rom. 13. 13 , 14. saith calvin on this text [ induere christum bic significat virtute spiritus ejus undique nos muniri , qua idonei ad omnes sanctitatis partes reddamur : sic enim in nobis instauratur imago dei quae unicum est animae ornamentum . respicit enim paulus ad vocationis nostrae finem , quia deus nos adoptans in corpus unigenti filii sui inserit , & quidem hac lege , ut nos abdicantes priore vita fiamus in ipso novi homines . quare etiam alibi fideles dicit christum induere in baptismo , gal. 3. 27. ] to put on christ signifies here to be defended in all points with the virtue of the spirit , whereby we may be fit for all parts of holiness , for thus the image of god is renewed in us , which is the onely ornament of the soul , for paul hath respect to the end of our vocation , because god adopting us , hath ingraffed us in the body of his onely begotten son , and that upon those terms , if we deny our former life , and become new men in him : wherefore he saith elsewhere , that believers put on christ in baptism . and upon gal. 3. 27. he saith [ quum dicit , christum induisse , intelligit christo sic esse infitos ; ut coram deo nomen ac personam christi gerant , ac in ipso magis quam in seipsis censcantur . when he saith they have put on christ , he understands that they are so ingraffed in christ , that they carry that name and person of christ in the sight of god , and are rather reckoned in him , then in themselves . and he comes to the objection , how all that are baptized can be said to put on christ , when baptism is not effectual with all ? and he answereth in summe , that to hypocrites it is uneffectual , qui nudis signis superbiunt , who are proud with the bare signs . but then he saith , that the apostle speaking of these non resspicit dei institutionem , sed impiorum corruptelam . he hath no respect to gods institution , but to the corruption of the wicked . ( but doubtless it is gods institution that we must look to in our administration ) qaum autem fideles alloquitur , qui rite utuntur illa , tunc conjungit cum sua veritate , quam figurant . quare ? neque enim fallacem pompam ostentat in sacramentis , sed quae externa caremonia figurat , exhibet simul reipsa . hinc fit , ut veritas , secundum dei institutum , conjuncta sit cum signis ] but when he speaks to believers , who use it rightly , he joyns them with their truth , which they typifie . wherefore ? for he doth not make shew of a deceitful pomp in the sacraments , but what the external ceremony figures , he exhibites together in very deed . hence it comes to pass that truth , according to gods institution , is joyned with the signs . to the same purpose say other protestants . the next title mentioned in the argument was , sons of god . all that are baptized are the visible or esteemed sons of god by saith in christ ; therefore they all profess that justifying faith to which that real or special sonship is promised . the antecedent is expressed in gal. 3 , 26 , 27. [ for ye are all the sons of god by saith in christ jesus ] which he proveth in the next words [ for as many as have been baptized into christ , have put on christ ] what sons of god are in scripture sense may be seen , john 1. 12. rom. 8. 14 , 15. phil. 2. 15. 2 john 3. 1 , 2. gal. 4. 1 , 2 , 5 , 7. and rom. 8. 17. [ if sons , then heirs , heirs of god , and joynt heirs with christ ] was a good consequence in pauls judgement [ in this ( saith john ) the children of god are manifest from the children of the devils : whosoever doth not righteousness is not of god , neither he that loveth not his brother , 1 john 3. 10. see also john 11. 52. rom. 8. 16. 21. but master blake objecteth rom. 9. 4. [ to them pertained the adoption ] and gomarus his comment . answ. 1. gomarus saith not , that any were in either sense sons of god without a profession of a saving faith . 2. it was not after their unchurching or unbelief , that the adoption is said to pertain to them , but before , and then , let master blake prove [ if he can ] that any israelites were adopted without profession of that faith , which was then saving : i doubt not to prove the contrary anon . and 3. if he could prove that such there were among the israelites , yet he will never prove that they are called sons , though the nation were ; because the denomination was principally from the true sons , and next from the professed ones : none are visibly sons that be not visibly true believers . the next title mentioned in the argument is [ abrahams seed ] all that are baptized are called abrahams seed , gal. 3. 17 , 18 , 19. therefore they all profess a justifying faith . the consequence is proved , in that none are abrahams seed in gospel sense , but those cordially that are true believers , and those appearingly that profess true faith . this is proved , rom. 9. 4 , 6 , 7. rom. 4. 11. [ that he might be the father of all them that believe , that righteousness might be imputed to them also ] this therefore is a justifying faith , and the priviledge of the justified that is here mentioned . it s added vers . 12 , 13. [ and the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision , but also walk in the steps of the faith of our father abraham yet uncircumcised . for the promise that he should be heir of the world was not to abraham or his seed by the law , but by the righteousness of faith — therefore it is of faith that it might be by grace , to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed , even to that also which is of the faith of abraham the father of us all . ] so gal. 3. 6 , 7 , 8 , 9. [ even as abraham believed god , and it was accounted to him for righteousness : know ye therefore that they which are of saith , the same are the children of abraham ; and the scripture fore-seeing that god would justifie the heathen by faith preached before the gospel to abraham ; in thee shall all nations be blessed . so then , they which be of saith are blessed with faithful abraham ] so vers . 14. 16. [ that the blessing of abraham might come on the gentiles , through jesus christ , that we might receive the promise of the spirit through faith . now to abraham , and his seed were the promises made ; he saith not , and to seeds as of many , but as of one ; and to thy seed , which is christ , and so to those that are in him . it is hence most undeniable , that all abrahams true seed are justified , and have a justifying faith ; and all his professing seed do profess this faith . the next title mentioned in the argument is , [ heirs according to the promise . ] all the baptized were heirs according to the promise : none that profess not a justifying faith are heirs according to the promise ( either really or appearingly ) therefore none that profess not a justifying faith should be baptized . the major is expressed , gal. 3. 17 , 18 , 19. the minor ( of which is all the doubt ) is proved from rom. 8. 17. where there is an express concatenation of [ children , heirs of god , coheirs with christ , that suffering with him shall be glorified with him ] gal. 4. 1 , 6 , 7. the heir is lord of all and a son , and therefore hath the spirit of the son , by which they cry abba father . so tit. 3. 5 , 6 , 7. [ according to his mercy he saved us by the washing of regeneration , and renewing of the holy ghost which he shed on us , &c. that being justified by his grace , we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life ] the heirs then are regenerate , justified , and have the hope of eternal life . so ephes. 3. 6. the gentiles being made fellow-heirs , and of the same body are partakers of the promise in christ by the gospel , even the unsearchable riches of christ , heb. 6. 17. the heirs of promise have their salvation confirmed by gods oath . and heb. 1. 14. they are called the heirs of salvation . and heb. 11. 6. 9. it is true justified believers that have that title , and james 2. 7. [ they are called heirs of the promised kingdom ] and 1. pet. 3. 7. they are called coheirs [ of the same grace of life ] so that to be heirs in the first and proper notion is to be sons that have title to the inheritance of glory : and therefore to be heirs in the second analogical notion is to be such as seem such by profession of that faith which hath the promise of that glory . the last title that i mentioned in the argument was [ justified ] paul calleth all the baptized church of corinth justified ; none that profess not a justified faith are called justified , therefore none such should be baptized . the major i proved to master blake out of 1 cor. 6. 11. [ ye are washed , ye are sanctified , ye are justified in the name of the lord jesus , and by the spirit of our god . ] master blake doth not at all deny the major or the sense of the text alledged to prove it ; but darkly in generals intimateth a denial of the minor , silently passing over that particular title [ justified ] as if he durst not be seen to take notice of it . i confess its sad that good men should be so unfaithful to the truth , which is so precious , and is not their own , and which they should do nothing against ( as master baxter hath done ) but all they can for it . having gon thus far about titles , let me add another ; the title [ regenerate ] christ hath instituted no baptism , but what is to be a sign of present regeneration . but to men that profess not a justifying faith it cannot be administred as a sign of present regeneration ; therefore he hath instituted no baptism to be administred to such . the major i have proved already in the first argument , and its plain in john 3. 5. except a man be born of water and of the spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of god ] and so in tit. 3. 5. where it is called the laver of [ regeneration ] in both which though i am of their minde that think that the sign is put for the thing signified ; yet it may thence plainly appear what is the thing signified , even regeneration , or the new birth : yea so commonly was this acknowledged by all the church of christ , that there is nothing more common in the writings of the fathers then to take the terms [ regenerate , illuminate , &c. and baptized ] as signifying the same thing , or at least spoken of the same person , which occasioned one of our late antiquaries so stifly to plead that regeneration in scripture signifyeth meer baptism , and that all the baptized are regenerate . i grant that it oft falls out that baptism being misapplied sealeth not regeneration at present , and that the same person may afterward be regenerate , and his remembred baptism may be of use to him for the confirmation of his faith . but this is not the institutes commanded use of it , to be so administred at first , if the party profess not saving faith , though this review of it is a duty , where it was so abused at first . the minor i shall take for granted , while regeneration in scripture stands so connexed to salvation ; i know no regenerate ones , but the justified , or those that profess to have a justifying faith , nor hath he proved any more . pag. 118. argum. 11. all that are meet subjects for baptism , ( are after their baptism without any further inward qualification , at least without any other species of saith ) meet subjects for the lords supper : but no infant is a meet subject for the lords supper , as is acknowledged , therefore no infant is a meet subject for baptism : or thus , those whom we may baptize , we may also admit to the lords supper : but we may admit no infants to the lords supper , as is acknowledged by baptizers of infants , therefore we may baptize no infants . the major master blake will easily grant me , and if any other deny it i prove it thus . 1. it is the same covenant that both sacrament seal , one for initiation the other for confirmation and growth in grace ; therefore the same saith that qualifieth for the one , doth sufficiently qualifie for the other , for the same covenant hath the same condition . 2. they are the same benefits that are conferred in baptism and the lords supper to the worthy receiver . therefore the same qualification is necessary for the reception : the antecedents is commonly granted . baptism uniteth to christ , and giveth us himself first , and with himself the pardon of all past sins , &c. the lords supper by confirmation giveth us the same things ; it is the giving of christ himself , who saith by his minister , take , eat , drink ; offering himself to us under the signs , and commanding us to take himself by faith , as we take the signs by the outward parts . he giveth us the pardon of sin , sealed and procured by his body broken , and his blood shed . 3. a member of christs church , against whom no accusation may be brought from some contradiction of his first profession , must be admitted to the lords supper ; but the new baptized may be ordinarily such : therefore if he can but say , i am a baptized person , he hath a sufficient principal title to the lords supper , coram ecclesia , before the church . [ i mean such as we must admit ] though some actual preparation be necessary , unless he be proved to have disabled his claim on that account either by nulling and reverting that profession , or by giving just cause of questioning it . 4. the church hath ever from the apostles dayes till now without question admitted the new baptized at age to the lords supper , without requiring any new species of faith to intitle them to it . i take the major therefore as past denial : i must confess as much as i am against separation , i never intend to have communion with master blakes congregation , if they profess not saving repentance and faith , and if he exact not such a profession , i say still he makes foul work in the church , and when such foul work shall be voluntarily maintained , and the word of god abused for the defilement of the church , and ordinances of god , it is a greater scandal to the weak and to the schismsticks , and a greater reproach to the church , and sadder case to considerate men , then the too common pollutions of others , which are meerly through negligence , but not justified and defended . let master baxters own words judge him , who makes the same foul work in the ordinance of baptism by admitting infants to it upon a parents or proparents ( as he terms them ) profession , when all his proofs of the necessity of profession to go before baptism are of the profession of the party himself to be baptized , and this device of a parents or proparents profession instead of the infants , is his own invention that hath not any intimation in scripture , and by his own proofs makes infants capable of the lords supper , and perverts the nature of sacraments , which his own words do fully express , thus . pag. 123 , 124. the first argument of master gillespies 20. is from the nature of sacraments , which are to signifie that we have already faith in christ , remission of sin by him , and union with him . the sense of the argument is , that seeing sacraments , ( according to christs institution ) are confirming signs presupposing the thing signified both on our part and on gods ; therefore none should use them that have not first the thing signified by them . though i undertake not to defend all the arguments that other men use in this case , yet this doth so much concern the cause of baptism , which i am now debating , that i shall give you this reply to it . what divines are there that deny the sacraments to be mutual signs , and seals signifying our part as well as gods ? and how ill do you wrong the church of god by seeking to make men believe that these things are new and strange ? if it be so to you , it is a pity that it is so ; but sure you have seen master gataker's books against doctor ward , and davenant , wherein you have multitudes of sentences recited out of our protestant divines , that affi●m this which you call new . it is indeed their most common doctrine , that the sacrament doth presuppose remission of sins , and our faith , and that they are instituted to signifie these as in being . it is the common protestant doctrine , that sacraments do solemnize and publickly own and confirm the mutual covenant already entred in heart , as a king is crowned , a souldier listed , a man and woman maried after professed consent : so that the sign is causal as to the consummation and delivery ( as a key or twig and turff in giving possession ) but consequential to the contract as privately made , and the right given thereby ; so that the soul is supposed to consent to have christ as offered first [ which is saving faith ] and then by receiving him sacramentally delivered , to make publick profession of that consent , and publickly to receive his sealed remission . master cobbet [ cited by you ] might well say , that primarily the sacrament is gods seal ; but did he say that it is onely his , and not secondarily ours ? and in the next words you do in effect own part of the doctrine your self , which you have thus wondered at , as new and strange , saying ; [ i confess it is a symbol of our profession of faith . if you mean as you speak [ taking profession properly ] then 1. you yield that the sacrament is our symbol , and so declareth or signifieth our action as well as gods . 2. and it is not onely a sign of our profession , but a professing sign , and therefore a sign of the thing professed ; for the external sign is to declare the internal acts of the mind , which without signs others cannot know . as therefore the words and outwards actions 〈◊〉 ●wo distinct signs of the same internal acts , so are they two wayes of profess●●● my signal actions do not signifie my words ( which are plainer signs the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and therefore need not darker to express them ) but they both expre 〈…〉 mind ; so that they are not only symbols of our professi●● as you spea 〈…〉 t professing symbols 3. and if so , then they must be signs and professions of those internal acts , which correspond with them . the fourth argument of master gillespy is from rom. 4. 11. circumcision was a seal of that righteousness of faith ; therefore so is baptism , therefore it belongeth onely to justified believers . he that maketh it the instituted nature or use of circumcision to be a seal of righteousness of faith , which the person had before , doth make his circumcision a proof of his foregoing righteousness of faith . pag. 133. you cannot shew where ever the wicked are commanded to communicate with the church in the sacrament , but in this order ; first to be converted and repent , and so baptized , and so communicate , gillespy aarons rod blossoming , pag. 514 , 515. the assumption [ that baptism it self is not a regenerating ordinance ] i prove thus . 1. because we read of no persons baptized by the apostles , except such as did profess faith in christ , gladly received the word , and in whom some begun work of the spirit of grace did appear ( i say not that it really was in all , but somewhat of it did appear in all . ) baptism even of the aged must necessarily precede the lords supper . pag. 144. my twelfth argument is from matth. 22. 12. [ friend , how camest thou in hither , not having on a wedding garment ? and he was speechless ] to [ come in hither ] is [ to come into the church of christ . ] by the wedding garment is undoubtedly meant , sincerity of true faith and repentance , so that i may hence argue : if god will accuse and condemn men for coming into his church , or the communion of saints without sincere faith and repentance , then it is not the appointed use of baptism to initiate those that profess not sincere faith and repentance . but infants profess not sincere faith and repentance , as is manifest by sense , therefore it is not the appointed use of baptism to initiate infants . pag. 145. the thirteenth argument is this : we must baptize none that profess not themselves christians ; but no infants profess themselves christians , as is manifest by sense , therefore we must baptize no infants . the major is certain , because it is the use of baptism to be our solemn listing sign into christs army , our , initiating sign , and the solemnization of our mariage to christ , and professing sign that we are christians , and we do in it dedicate and deliver up our selves to him in this relation as his own . so that in baptism we do not onely promise to be christians , but profess that we are so already in heart , and now would be solemnly admitted among the number of christians ; the minor i prove thus . 1. no man is truely a christian that is not truly a disciple of christ [ that is plain act. 11. 26. ] no man is truly a disciple of christ that doth not profess a saving faith and repentance , therefore no man that doth not so profess is truly a christian . the minor i prove thus : no man is truly a disciple of christ that doth not profess to forsake all contrary masters , or teachers , and to take christ for his chief teacher , consenting to learn of him the way to salvation : but no man maketh this profession that professeth not saving faith and repentance ; therefore no man that professeth not saving faith and repentance is truly a disciple of christ . the major is evident in the nature of the relation , the minor is as evident , in that it is an act of saving faith and repentance to forsake other teachers , and to take christ for our sole or chief teacher in order to salvation . 2. no man is truly a christian that professeth not to take christ for his lord and king , forsaking his enemies : but no man doth this but the professors of a saving faith . therefore , &c. 3. no man is a true christian that professeth not to take christ for his redeemer , who hath made propitiation for sin by his blood , and to esteem his blood as the ransom for sinners , and to trust therein ; but none do this but the professors of saving faith , therefore none else are christians . the major of all these three arguments is further proved thus : no man is professedly a christian that professeth not to accept of christ as christ [ or to believe in christ as christ ] but no man doth profess to take christ as christ , that professeth not to take or accept him as his priest , teacher and king ; therefore . &c. the major is plain in it self : the minor is as plain , it being essential to christ to be the priest , prophet , and king , and from these essentials related to us and accepted by us , doth our own denomination of christians arise , and that a bare assent without acceptance doth not make any one a christian is past doubt , and shall be further spoken to anon . if baptism then be commonly called our christening , and so be our entrance solemnly into the christian state , then is it not to be given to them that are not so much as christians by profession . and furthermore if a faith defective in the assenting part about the essentials of its object , serve not to denominate a man justly a christian , then a faith defective in the consenting or accepting part above the essentials of the object serveth not to denominate a man a christian ; but the antecedent is true , therefore so is the consequent . the antecedent is proved , because else the turks are christians , because they believe so many and so great things of christ ; and else a man might be a christian that denied christs death , or resurrection , or other essentials of christianity . the consequence is good , for christianity is as truly and necessarily in the will as in the understanding ; consent is as essential an act of covenanting as any . so that i may conclude that as he is no christian that professeth not to believe that christ is the priest , prophet , and king , so he is no christian that professeth not to consent and accept him for his priest , prophet , and king . the fourteenth argument is this : our divines ordinarily charge wicked men with contradiction of profession which is made in baptism , and they expound many places of scripture , which the arminians take as favouring their cause , to be meant according to the profession of wicked men . but it chargeth not such contradiction on persons baptized in infancy , therefore it supposeth no profession or baptism of theirs : and if we must baptize none that profess not saving faith and repentance , we must not baptize infants , who make no profession . pag. 177. argum. 15. if all that are baptized must engage themselves to believe presently ( in the next instant ) yea , or at any time hereafter , with a saving faith , then must they profess at present a saving faith ; or if we must baptize none that will not ingage to believe savingly , then must we baptize none that will not profess a saving faith ; but no infant will profess a saving faith , as is manifest by reason and experience , therefore we must baptize no infant . the antecedent is master blakes doctrine ; who affirmeth , that it is not necessary that they that come to baptism do profess a present saving faith , but its sufficient that they engage themselves to believe by such a faith . the consequence is proved thus ▪ 1. it is not the beginning of saving faith which we are to engage our selves to in the sacraments , but the continuance , therefore the beginning is presupposed in that engagement , and so we must no more baptize without a profession of faith in present , then without an engagement to believe hereafter ; the antecedent is proved thus ; there is no one word in scripture either of precept or example where any person in baptism doth engage , or is required to engage to begin to believe with a saving faith , or to believe with a faith which at present he hath not . shew but one word of scripture to prove this ( if you can ) if you cannot , i may conclude , that therefore we must not require that which we have no scripture ground to require . let master baxter shew but one word in scripture to prove this ( if he can ) that any person in baptism doth engage or is required to believe , or profess to believe that another , an infant may be admitted to baptism by virtue of it ; if he cannot , i may conclude , that therefore we must not require that which we have no scripture ground to require , nor admit any infant or other , by reason of a parents , proparents , or sureties profession or promise to believe for an infant . pag. 149. argum. 16. if there can be no example given in scripture of any one that was baptized without the profession ( and that his own , by his own self and no other parents , proparent or surety ) of a saving faith , nor any precept for so doing , then must not we baptize any without it ; but , the antecedent is true , therefore so is the consequent , and therefore we must baptize no infant , who makes no such profession , as all examples in scripture of any baptized are of , and every precept for baptism requires . let us review the scripture examples of baptism , which might afford us so many several arguments , but that i shall put them together for brevity . 1. i have already shewed that john required the profession of true repentance ( by the baptized himself ) and that his baptism was for remission of sin . 2. when christ layeth down in the apostolical commission , the nature and order of his apostles work , it is first to make them disciples , and then to baptize them into the name of the father , son , and holy ghost ; and as it is a making disciples , which is first expressed in matth. so mark expoundeth who those disciples are by patting believing before baptism , and that we may know that it is a justifying faith ( of the disciple himself ) that he meaneth , he annexeth first baptism , and then the promise of salvation , math. 28. 19. mark 16. 16. [ he that believeth and is baptized shall be saved . this is not like some occasional mention of baptism , but its the very commission of christ to his apostles for preaching and baptism , and purposely expresseth their several works in their several places and order . their first task is to make disciples , which are by mark called believers . the second work is to baptize them , whereto is annexed the promise of their salvation . the third work is to teach them all other things , which are afterward to be learned in the school of christ . to contemn this order ( as master baxter doth in infant baptism ) is to contemn all rules of order : for where can we expect to find it , if not here ? i profess my conscience is fully satisfied from this text , that it is one sort of faith , even saving , that must go before baptism , and the profession whereof ( by the party himself to be baptized ; he that believeth and is baptized , not another then the believer , make disciples and baptize them , not others then the disciples made ) the minister must expect , of which see what is before cited out of calvin and i●scator . i shall be amazed reading this passage , at the blindness of master baxter , if he see not how unanswerably his own words overthrow infant baptism , or his hypocrisie , if being satisfied , as he saith , in conscience of his own exposition he do not deny infant baptism , and bewail his alledging of matth. 28. 19. in his book termed , plain scripture proof of infants baptism , part. 1. chap. 3. and i pray god to deliver me from such hardness of heart , be adds , that it was saving faith that was required of the jews and professed by them , acts 2. 38 , 41 , 48. is shewed already , and is plain in the text . acts 8. the samaritans believed and had great joy , and were baptized into the name of jesus christ , vers. 8. 12. whereby it appeareth that it was both the understanding and will that were both changed , and that they had the profession of a saving faith ( even simon himself ) acts 8. 37. the condition on which the eunuch must be baptized was [ if he believed with all his heart ; ] which he professed to do , and that was the evidence that philip did expect . paul was baptized after true conversion , acts 9. 18. the holy ghost fell on the gentiles , acts 10. 44. before they were baptized , and they magnified god . and this holy ghost was the like gift as was given to the apostles , who believed on the lord jesus ; and it was accompanied with repentance unto life , acts 11. 17 , 18. acts 16. 14 , 15. lydia's heart was opened before she was baptized , and she was one that the apostles [ judged faithful to the lord ] and offered to them the evidence of her faith , acts 16. 30 , 31 , 33 , 34. the example of the jaylour is very full to the resolution of the question in hand . he first asketh what he should do to be saved ; the apostle answereth him ; [ believe in the lord jesus , and thou shalt be saved and thy house ] so that it was a saving faith that is here mentioned . he rejoyced and believed with all his house , and was baptized that same hour of the night , or straightway . it is here evident that he professed that same faith which paul required , acts 18. 8. [ crispus the chief ruler of the synagogue believed on the lord with all his house● and many of the corinthians hearing , believed and were baptized ] here we have two proofs that it is saving faith that is mentioned , those in acts 19. 5. were baptized as believers in jesus christ . in a word , i know of no one word in scripture that giveth us the least intimation that ever man was baptized without the profession of a saving faith . there is constantly this order in the prescribed duty , that no man should seek baptism but a true believer , and no man should baptize any but those that profess this true belief , acts 8. 37. philip is determining a question , and giveth this in as the decision [ if thou believe with all thy heart thou mayest ] and to say that this is but de bene esse , meaning that it includeth not the negative , [ otherwise thou mayest not ] is to make philip to have deluded and not decided or resolved . use that liberty in expounding all other scripture , and you 'l make it what you please . a dogmatical faith is not the christian faith , nor anywhere alone denominateth men believers in scripture . i remember but one text , john 12. 42. where it is called believing on christ ; and but few more where it is simply called believing , but none where such are called believers , disciples or christians , or any thing that intimateth them , admitted into the visible church without the profession of saving faith . i conclude that all examples in scripture do mention onely the administration of it to the professors of saving faith , and the precepts give us no other direction ; and i provoke master blake ( as far as is seemly for me to do ) to name one precept or example for any other , and make it good , if he can . i conclude that all examples of baptism in scripture do mention onely the administration of it to the same persons who in their own persons were professors of saving faith ; and the precepts give us no other direction . and i provoke mr. baxter ( as far as is seemly for me to do ) to name one precept or example for baptizing any other , and make it good , if he can , and if not , by his own reason he ought to baptize no other , but must reject baptism of infants who do not in their own persons profess saving faith , and give over his vain plea of parents or proparents profession of saving faith , as entituling infants to baptism , which ( unless his violence and wilfulness of spirit blind him ) his own words and arguments will inforce to do . pag. 156. argum. 17. is from 1 pet. 3. 21. [ the like figure whereto even baptism doth also now save us : not the putting away the filth of the flesh , but the answer of a good conscience toward god ] whence i thus argue : if baptism be appointed for our solemn admission into a state of salvation , as noahs ark received men into a state of safety from the deluge , then none should be baptized but those that profess that faith which entereth them into a state of salvation ; but no infant professeth that faith which entereth them into a state of salvation , as is manifest by sense and reason , therefore no infant should be baptized . here it is implied plainly that this is quoad finem instituentis , as to the end of him that instituted it , the common appointed of baptism , which the text mentioneth , though eventually it prove not the common effect through the errours of the receivers : and this appeareth , 1. in that it was spoken plainly in the text of the very nature and appointed use of baptism , and so of baptism as baptism , without any exception , limitation , or distinction . therefore it is not spoken of any different use that it is appointed for to the elect , as distinct from its common use to others . it s spoken of that signification and common use to which baptism is appointed , viz. to save , else we shall never be able to understand the use of it , or any ordinance from scripture , if we shall take liberty to say [ it is this to one , but not to another ] when the scripture saith no such thing , but speaks of the nature and use of it without distinction . else when it saith , [ circumcision is a seal of the righteousness of faith ] we may say with the anabaptists , it was so to abraham , but not to all others [ and when the lords supper is said to be appointed for the remembrance of christ ] we may say , that is but to some , and not to others , when as the text plainly speaks of the stated use of the ordinances to all . 2 and in the type it is clear ; for it was not some onely , but all that entered noabs ark , that entered into a state of salvation from the deluge ; therefore so it is here as to the commanded use . 2. when baptism is said to save us , it s plainly meant of the state of salvation that baptism entereth us into and not of baptism ex opere operato , by the work done , effecting our salvation : and so baptism comprehendeth the state into which we are solemnly by it initiated . as a woman that is maried to an honourable man , or a souldier listed under an honourable commander , is said to be honoured , the one by mariage , the other by listing . where antecedent consent is the foundation on both sides of the honourable relations , and the subsequent state is the condition or state it self which is honourable , but the solemn signation is but the expression of the former , and passage to the later . 3. hereby it is apparent , that though the answer of a good conscience be the principal thing intended , and that saveth , yet the external baptism is here included as the sign and solemnization , so that when the apostle saith [ not the putting away of the filth of the flesh ] he means [ not the bare outward act of washing alone , or as such ] but baptism as it is entire , having the thing professed on ou● part , together with the professing sign . 4. it is therefore but by way of signification , obsignation and complemental exhibition , that baptism saveth , it being neither the fast or principal efficient or condition of it , but is valued as it is conjunct with the principal causes and condition for the attainment of these ends . 5. it is not a meer remote means leading towards a state of salvation that baptism is here affirmed to be , but an enterance or means of entrance into that state of salvation it self . as the heart-covenant or faith doth it principally , so baptism signally and complementally . this is plain . 1. because it is not said to help us towards a state of salvation , but expresly to save . 2. because the type which is here mentioned , viz. the ark , was such a means , that all that entered into it for preservation from the flood were actually saved from it . all this laid together doth confirm both the antecedent and consequence , of my argument . calvins words on the text signifie , 1. that no baptized men are excluded from salvation but hypocrites . 2. that they that are excluded from salvation for all their baptism are such as did dep●ave and corrupt it , and not justly use it . yet another argument may hence be raised , thus . argum. 2. if , according to the institution , the answer of a ●ood conscience must be joyned with baptism for the attaining of its end , then we must admit none that profess not that answer of a good conscience : but no infant doth profess that answer of a good conscience , as is manifest by sense : therefore we must admit no infant to baptism . but the former is certain from the text , for baptism is said to save ; that is , its appointed use , yet not the external washing , but the answer of a good conscience doth it ; therefore this is of necessary conjunction , and without it baptism cannot attain its end , but it is to be administred and received onely in order to the attainment of its end , and therefore never in a way by which the end is apparently not attainable . what this answer of a good conscience is , we shall further enquire anon . both the common exp●sitions fully confirm the point which i maintain . the assemblies annot. recit : both thus : [ hence by the answer of a good conscience we may understand that unfeigned faith , whereof they made confession at their baptism , and whereby their consciences were purified , and whereby they received the remission of their sin , &c. some understand by the answer of a good conscience , that covenant whereinto they entered at their baptism , the embracing whereof they testified by their unfeigned confession of their faith ] viz. such a faith as is aforesaid . pag. 160. argum. 18. no one may be admitted to baptism , who may not be addmitted a member of the church of christ . no one may be admitted to be a member of the church of christ without the profession of a saving faith ; therefore no one may be admitted to baptism without the profession of a saving faith . but no infant doth profess saving faith , as is manifest by sense , therefore no infant may be admitted to baptism . i speak of such admission to church membership as is in the power of the ministers of christ , who have the keys of his kingdom to open and let in , as well as to cast out . the major is past question , because baptism is our solemn entrance into the church , who were before entred by private consent , and accepted by the covenant of god . all the question is of the minor , which i shall therefore prove . 1. it is before proved that all the members of the church must be such as are visibly , solemnly , or by profession , sanctified from former sin , cleansed , justified persons of god , the heirs of the promise , &c. but this cannot be without the profession of a saving faith ; therefore , &c. 2. this is also before proved , where it was shewed , that no other are christians or disciples . 3. in acts 2. 41 , 42. &c. the many thousand that were added to the church were such as gladly received the doctrine of saving faith and repentance , and continued in the apostles doctrine and fellowship , and breaking of bread and prayer , and so far contemned the world as to sell all , and make it common . and doubtless no man continued in those ways ( of doctrine fellowship , prayer , &c. ) without the profession of saving faith and repentance , for the very use of these is such a profession , of which saith calvin in act. 2. 42. [ quaerimus ergo veram christi ecclesiam ; hic nobis ad vivum depicta est ●jus im●g● , ac initium qui●em facit a doctrina , quae veluti ecclesiae anima est , ( not as barely heard , but as professed and received ) nec quamlibet doctrinam nominat , sed apost●lorum ; hoc est quam per ipsorum nanus silius dei tradiderat : ergo ubicunque personat pura vox eva●gelii , ubi in ejus professione m●●nent homines , ubi in ordinario ejus auditu ad profectum se exercent , illic indubio est ecclesia &c. quare non temere haec quatuor recenset lucas , quum desserib●re vult nobis rite constitutam ecclesiae statum . et nos ad hunc ordinem eniti convenit , si cupimus vere censeri ecclesia coram deo & angelis , non inane tantum ejus nomen apud homines jactare ] therefore we seek out the true church of christ : its image is here painted to the life , and verily it begins from the doctrine , which is as it were the soul of the church , neither doth he name any doctrine , but of the apostles , that is to say , which the son of god had delivered by their hands , therefore wheresoever the pure voice of the gospel sounds , where men remain in the profession of it , where they exercise themselves to profit in the ordinary hearing of it , there undoubtedly is the church . wherefore luke mentions these four things not without just ground , when he would describe the duly constituted state of the church , and its convenient that we should endeavour to attain to this order , if we desire to be a true church in the sight of god and angels , and not onely to boast of the vain name thereof before men . and vers. 47. it is said that the lord added daily to the church such as should be saved . it describeth them that were added to the church viz. that they were such as should be saved , or as beza yieldeth to another reading [ and so grotius and many others ] such as saved themselves from that untoward generation [ qui sese quotidie servandos recipiebant in ecclesiam ] who daily added themselves to the church that they might be saved . the church is the body of christ , col. 1. 18. 24. and none are members of his body but such as either are united to him , and live by him , or at least seem to do so . the church is subject to christ , and beloved of christ , and cherished by him : we are members of his body , of his flesh , and his bones , ephes 5. 24. 25 , 30. and those that are against the general redemption , me thinks should be moved with the consideration , that it is the church that christ gave himself for , even the visible church which he purchased with his own blood , acts 20. 28. ephes. 5. 25. and he is the saviour of his body , vers. 23. but so he is not effectively the saviour of the professors of a faith that doth not justifie : {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} according to opinion , he is the effective savior of those that profess a justifying faith , and {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} of the sincere : but of others neither way . hitherto divines have gathered from the plain texts of scripture , that there is but one church , one faith , and one baptism ; and those that had this faith really , were to be baptized , and were real members of the church , and that those that professed this faith , and so seemed to have it when they have it not , are visible members of the church , and are so taken , because their profession is sensible to us ; and by that they seem to have the thing prof●ssed ; but pae●obaptists , and chiefly master baxter are fallen into new conceits in these . 1. they feign a new christian faith to themselves , to wit , a believing immediate by the faith of a parent or proparent ; so that before there was but one christian faith , and now they have made two . 2. and so before , there was but one sort of real , serious , or sincere christians , consisting of such as had that real christian faith , ( in their own persons ) and now they have found out another sort of them , to wit , believers by anothers faith . 3. so they have feigned a new baptism , for the old baptism was for remission of sin , and burial and resurrection with christ , and to ingraffe men into the church , which is the body of christ , upon the profession of a saving faith : but now they admit to baptism , as they term it , infants without any profession of saving faith , made by them to seal an imaginary covenant of grace made by god to believing parents and their seed , without any covenanting or sealing by the baptized person , upon a pretended title of parents and proparents faith , and instead of baptizing [ as of old they did ] by putting under water and coming out again , so as to resemble christs burial and resurrection , and their conformity thereto , they call that baptism , and say falsly they baptize when they onely sprinkle or pour water on an infant without such dipping , as of old master baxter pag. 70. confesseth was used and expressed by the apostle , rom. 6. 4 , 5. 4. and they have feigned also a new kind of church : for the church of christs constitution is but one , which is called visible from mens profession , and invisible from the faith professed . but they have made a church which consisteth of a third sort of members ; that is , of men that neither have saving faith nor profess it , but onely are infants , whose parents or proparents have faith . 5. to this end they have confounded the church and the porch , the vineyard & the adjac●nt part of the wilderness : those that heretofore were not so much as catechumeni , o● men in preparation for the church , but onely designed to holiness , and hoped and expected to be in after time when they came to understand the christian faith , church-members , are now brought into it , and are annumerated to true christians , before they once profess themselves to be such . 6. and hereby [ by infant baptism ] also one of the two sorts of teaching , which christ distinguisheth , matth. 28. 19 , 20. is taken away , to wit , that teaching which draweth men to christ , and maketh them disciples , and perswadeth them to receive christ jesus the lord . for they take him for a disciple ( so master b●xter of baptism , part . 1. chap. 3. ) that is not learning to be a disciple , yea , though he do not so much as submit to learn , nor hath learned any preparatory truths , though yet he be not made a disciple indeed , nor profess to be . master baxter is deeply offended with master t. for denying infants to be christians or members of the church mediately , &c. but i shall say somewhat more concerning those infants that are asserted by him to be disciples , who do not so much as profess a saving faith , viz. that they are no members of the church at all , and are not so much as to be named christians , nor to be admitted into the visible church . no man can prove that ever one man was admitted a church-member in all the new testament , without the profession of a saving faith . otherwise we should have two distinct churches specially different , or two sorts of christianity , and christians differing tota specie , in the whole kind , because the profession by a parent and proparent which is made by him , their qualification doth make a difference specifical between such christians and church-members , and other christians and church members . when the jaylor acts 16. 30 , 32 , 33 , 34. was admitted into the church by baptism , it was upon the professing of such a believing , by which both he and his houshold might be saved , as is before shewed . and so of all others in those times . pag. 163. argum. 19. if we once admit men to baptism without their own personal profession , we shall be utterly confounded , and not be able to give any satisfactory resolution whose profession may be a sufficient qualification to entitle to baptism , and so never be able to practice the doctrine of pae●obaptism , as being utterly uncertain what infants to baptize . this might be manifest by considering the several conceits of paedobaptists , some whereof make the faith of the church sufficient , some the faith of albelieving nation , some of any ancestors , some of the sureties , some of the next parents , some of the parent inchurched , some of the parent or proparent , and this they claim by a covenant which they can extend to no other then the parent , who is believer , not onely by profession , but also really before god , which can be known to no administrator of baptism ordinarily . paedobaptists speak so much and purposely of this point , particularly master baxter of baptism , part. 1. chap. 29. that one would think we may expect an exact resolution of this point from him , if from any man , and yet he is uncertain what to fix upon , and if he resolve on any thing it is without proof , as is shewed by master t. review , part. 1. sect. 35. 37. exercit. argum. 9. 11. review part . 2. sect. 10. 12. 17. part. 3. sect. 50. &c. and i perceive that the stress of the differences between master baxter and master t. did rest much in this , and no wise man will leave his grounds till he see where he may have better ( especially when the grounds are so plain as those of the antipaedobaptists are from christs institution , matth. 28. 19. mark . 16. 15 , 16. and the apostles practice , which master baxter hath here so amply proved to be of the baptizing onely of persons who themselves profess a saving faith ) unless he mean to be for nothing , or of no religion . no man can tell where to fix , nor what we must consent to , to procure a title , if we once forsake the present ground of the persons own profession of saving faith who is to be baptized . what is said to the contrary is answered in the books forenamed , and it is not meet to be still writing for those lazie readers , that had rather erre then be at the pains of reading what is already written . none are disciples upon the account of your other faith , but of either saving faith or the profession of it ; none are christians on the account of your lower kind of faith , but onely of saving faith or the profession of it . once for all i let you know , that i take saving faith to be the constitutive or necessary qualification of a real or mystical member ; and profession of that faith to be the qualifying condition of visibility of membership . i confess still that the sealis to others besides believers , but though the promise be conditional , we must not seal to any but those that profess consent to the conditions ; and therefore not to any but those that profess to be true believers . pag. 190. i find by sad experience ( to my sorrow ) that a considerable part of some parishes , or villages are ignorant of the fundamentals . i have spoken with abundance that that know not christ is god or man , or either ( but they say he is a spirit ) nor that the holy ghost is god , nor why christ died , nor that any satisfaction is made for our sins , or any thing done , or necessary to their pardon , but our own repentance and amendment , and with some that know not that the soul goes to heaven before the resurrection , nor that the body shall ever rise again . now i would know of master blake whether all the children of these parents must be baptized again or not ? for certainly these have not a dogmatical faith , which is the thing that he saith entituleth to baptism . and then what certainty have we that any of our ancestors had a true dogmatical faith : and i would know of master baxter whether such children are not to be baptized agian ? sure if he say no , how can he allow that baptism which is without a profession of saving faith ? if he say yea , how can he assure himself that any of our ancestors had right baptism ? me thinks few that hold master baxters tenets should allow of the baptism of the greatest part of english people who are no better then those master baxter mentions , and yet neither master baxter nor other paedobaptists do baptize such when they come to profess understandingly the faith of christ . pag. 195. my twentieth and last argument is drawn from the constant practice of the universal church of christ . it hath been the constant practice of the catholick church from the apostles practice till now to require that profession of saving faith and repentance , as necessary , before they would baptize ; therefore it must be our practice also . but it is otherwise in infant baptism , as experience shews , therefore the practice of it is not right . for the proof of the churches practice , 1. i have already said enough about the apostles own practice and the church in their days . 2. the constant practice of the church since the apostles to this day is undoubtedly known . 1. by the very form of words in baptism , and 2. by the history of their proceedings therein . 1. it is certain that the church did ever baptize into the name of the father , son , and holy ghost . and as i have proved before , the voluntary seeking and reception of that baptism containeth the actual profession of saving faith . 2. it is certain that the persons to be baptized ( if at age ) did profess to believe in the father , son , and holy ghost . 3. it is also certain , that they did profess to renounce the flesh , the world , and the devil . 4. and it is certain that they promised for the future to live in new obedience , and thus they publickly entered the three stipulations ; credis ? credo : abrenuncias ? abrenuncio : spondes ? spondeo . doest thou believe ? i believe . doest thou renounce ? i renounce . doest thou promise ? i promise . it was the constant doctrine of the fathers and the church then , that faith and repentance ( given in vocation ) did go first , and that justification , adoption , and sanctification followed after . and so they took this justifying faith and repentance to be prerequisite to baptism , therefore they ever required before hand whether they believed in god the father , son , and holy ghost , and renounced the flesh , the world , and the devil ( as is aforesaid ) and caused them to profess this before they would baptize them . and as it is true of the ancient church , that they never baptized any without the profession of saving faith and repentance , so it is true of all the christian churches in the world that i can hear of to this day . the papists themselves do use the same words in baptism , as are before expressed , and require a profession . and though their false doctrine force them to misexpound their own words , yet custom hinders them from changing them ; and for the reformed churches it is past all question , by their constant practice , that they require the profession of a saving faith . the practice of the church of england till the late change , may be seen in the common prayer book , wherein all that is fore-mentioned is required , even from the infant , to whom the question is propounded , doest thou renounce ? doest thou believe ? wilt thou be baptized ? although they took the answer of the sureties as if it were the childes , and say in the catechism they now promise , and perform faith and repentance by their sureties . in the confession of faith of the assembly at westminster , cap. 28. and again in the shorter catechism , profession of faith in christ , and obedience to him is the thing required . they add also in the directory [ that all who are baptized in the name of christ do renounce , and by their baptism are bound to fight against the devil , the world and the flesh . ] calvin in acts 8. 37. saith [ quod non admittitur eunuchus ad baptismum , nisi fidem professus , hinc sumenda est universalis regula , non ante recipiendes esse in ecclesiam qui ab ea prius fuerant alieni , quam ubi testati fuerint christo se credere . est enim baptismus quasi fidei appendix : ideoque ordine posterior est . deinde si datur sine fide , cujus est sigillum , & impia & nimis crassa est prophanatio . ] that the eunuch was not admitted to baptism till he professed faith . hence this universal rule is to be gathered , that those are not to be received into the church , who before were strangers from it , till they first testifie they believe in christ : for baptism is as it were an appendix to faith , and therefore is later in order : then if it be given without faith , of which t is the seal , t is a wicked and too gross a prophanation . here note . 1. that baptism ( as received ) is the seal of our faith ( how much soever denied by master blake ) as it is the seal of gods promise as administred . 2. that the constant order is that baptism follow faith . 3. and that it is no better then an impious profanation of it , if it go without faith ; that is . 1. if the party seek it without the presence of faith . 2. if the pastor administer it without the profession of faith . to like purpose speak many more , but to salve infant baptism they say that gods promise to an infant , whom they imagi●●● be born in the church , is instead of profession , that for it they by a judgement of charity are taken to be regenerate , and that it is as much as we have of persons of age , and is sufficient warrant to baptize them . but 1. they prove none of these . 2. nor are they true . 3. nor were they true would they warrant infant baptism , when the institution is ( as they confess ) to baptize them who believe by the preaching of the gospel to them , matth. 28. 19. mark . 16. 16. whereby the inadvertency of the generality of protestant divines in this point may be discerned , and by the reading of this book all intelligent persons may perceive master baxters deceitfulness or heedlesness , and , if he perfist in defending , infant baptism , his unreasonable pertinacie in his conceit , and , if he do not declare his forsaking his doctrine in his book of baptism , his impenitencie and unrighteous dealing with the church of god which he hath injured . the baptist against the papist, or, the scripture and rome in contention about the supream seat of judgment, in controversies of religion together with ten arguments or reasons, discovering the present papal church of rome to be no true church of christ : wherein it is also evinced that the present assemblies of baptized believers, are the true church of jesus christ / by tho. grantham ... grantham, thomas, 1634-1692. 1663 approx. 179 kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from 52 1-bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : 2008-09 (eebo-tcp phase 1). a41774 wing g1527 estc r40005 18606510 ocm 18606510 108098 this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons 0 1.0 universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase 1, no. a41774) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set 108098) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, 1641-1700 ; 1655:7) the baptist against the papist, or, the scripture and rome in contention about the supream seat of judgment, in controversies of religion together with ten arguments or reasons, discovering the present papal church of rome to be no true church of christ : wherein it is also evinced that the present assemblies of baptized believers, are the true church of jesus christ / by tho. grantham ... grantham, thomas, 1634-1692. [6], 61, [1] p. [s.n.], london printed : 1663. errata: p. [1] at end. imperfect: torn and faded with loss of print. pages 25-50 from defective union theological seminary library copy spliced at end. reproduction of original in the bodleian library. includes bibliographical references. created by converting tcp files to tei p5 using tcp2tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between 1473 and 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that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level 4 of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p5, characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng catholic church -controversial literature. bible -evidences, authority, etc. baptists -apologetic works. authority -religious aspects. 2007-11 tcp assigned for keying and markup 2007-11 apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images 2008-01 john latta sampled and proofread 2008-01 john latta text and markup reviewed and edited 2008-02 pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion the baptist against the papist : or , the scripture and rome in contention about the supream seat of judgment , in controversies of religion . together with ten arguments or reasons , discovering the present papal church of rome , to be no true church of christ . wherein it is also evinced , that the present assemblies of baptized believers , are the true church of jesus christ . by tho. grantham , a prisoner for truths sake . luke 16. 29 , 31. they have moses and the prophets , let them hear them . — if they hear not moses and the prophets , neither will they be perswaded though one should rise from the dead . ezek. 20. 18 , 19. but i said unto their children — walk ye not in the statutes of your fathers , &c. — i am the lord your god , walk in my statutes , and keep my judgments , and do them — joh. 12. 48. the word that i have spoken , the same shall judge you in the last day . london , printed in the year , 1663. the author to the reader . courteous reader , not because i envy those of the papal church , or desire them any evil ; not that i desire they should be exposed to a suffering condition for matters of religion , or that they should be denied any liberty in that respect which i desire my self , nor for any other prejudice ( god knoweth ) do i publish this small treatise : but because i judge my self concerned at this time to give my testimony for the truth , against some papal tenents ; for divers causes : as first , i am at this time under restraint , and though nothing hath been laid to my charge , yet it is rumour'd by some that i am a papist ; yea , in this place of my confinement , have i been told to my face by some of the protestant clergie , that i am a roman jesuite . and indeed this is an ordinary aspersion which hath been cast upon those in general to whom i am related upon a religious account , viz. that we are all papists , or will turn papists , &c. and this , not so much to our personal prejudice , as to the dishonour of that antient way of truth by us professed . secondly , a more particular occasion of the publication of this treatise , proceeded from the papists themselves , in sending seven queries to the baptized congregations in this county ( commonly called anabaptists ) to which , through the importunity of some friends , i formed a brief answer ; little thinking , i confess , that so much contention would have risen thereupon , as since i have met with . and i likewise confess , that the undertaking is such , as that it requireth a more fit instrument than my self to manage it . nevertheless , i hope i may say , that hitherto what hath come to pass in this contest , hath fallen out rather to the furtherance of the truth ; for which cause i have thought fit to offer it to the perusal of others , so much of it i mean , as i conceive is at present needful ; and that is the substance of what hath passed about the means whereby we must decide or resolve controversies in religion . it now wants but few months of a year , since i sent my final answer , containing a review of all that had been said in way of answer to the queries before , in which i produced the testimony of divers antient dictors , as concurring with what i had therein spoken , and , as being directly opposite to my antagonist . but i have heard of late , that he is gone out of this nation , so that i expect no more reply from him . and though for divers reasons hereafter shewed , i have not published the whole discourse ( which , if need be , may in due time be brought to light ) yet i have thought it meet here to set down all the seven queries , that so if any christian , of suitable endowments , for the vindication of truth , against the opposition that lyeth in the said queries , shall think fit to lay forth his talent in that service , he may take hold of this occasion wherein to do it , ( for the queries were not directed to any particular person ) however , i shall joyn to each query , one antiquery , which may serve at this present to blunt the edge of them , as they carry an opposition to the truth . the queries . the anti-queries . query 1. antiq. 1. vvhether we are to resolve all differences in point of religion , only out of the written word of god ? vvhat differences in point of religion can you resolve without the written word of god ? and whether the written word of god be a perfect rule for matters of religion ? query 2. antiq. 2. how know you precisely what is the true word of god ? whether some book must not of necessity speak for it self ? and whether the scripture doth not best deserve this priviledge ? and whether it be not a bold presumption to say , there are no holy books but them which we or you have received for such , sith those which we have , tell us , there are other holy writings , which never yet came to our hands , nor to yours ? query 3. antiq. 3. how know you that your copies and translations of the bible are the true word of god ? since the original writings are not come to your hands . what copies and translations of the bible have you that are more true than ours ? and where are the original manuscripts of the prophets and apostles ? qu. 4. antiq. 4. where we differ about the sense of the word , by whom must we be tryed ? the dead letter cannot explain it self . when we differ about the true church , and about the meaning of authors , by whom must we be tryed ? they cannot speak for themselves more than the scripture : and whether the scriptures , compared together , do not explain themselves ? also , whether it be not an opprobrious and ignominious speech for you to call the scripture a dead letter ? and whether the true lovers of the scripture ever vouchsafed it such ill , and indeed improper language ? qu. 5. antiq. 5. what clear text have you out of scripture for the procession of the holy ghost from the father & the son ? or , for changing the sabbath from saturday to sunday ? or prohibiting poligamy , or infant-baptism ? and , whether there be not as clear texts to prove unwritten tradition , purgatory , and the real presence ? whether the baptism of the true church be not one ? and whether that one be not expresly found in the scripture ? and whether the scripture doth not prohibit all beside that one ? and whether the papists have not confessed in many of their books , that infant-baptism is not found in , nor grounded upon the scripture ? and then , whether it be not clear , that all the texts which speak of baptism , do not prohibit infant-baptism ? also , whether joh. 15. 26. and 14. 26. and 16. 7. be not clear texts that the holy spirit proceeds from the father and the son ? also , whether 1 cor. 7. 1 , 2 , 3. do not as much prohibit one man for having two wives , and one woman for having two husbands ? and whether it do not clearly prohibit the latter ? also , whether there be any that hold the first day under the notion of a sabbath among the baptized churches ? and yet whether there be not clear texts for the religious observation of it ? act. 20. 7. also , whether it he not absurd for you to ask for clear texts to prove unwritten things ? also , whether rurgatory , and the real presence , as you hold them , is not plainly destructive to some articles of the christian faith ? qu. 6. antiq. 6. vvhether universality both for time and place , be not an evident mark of the true church ? what church can you name that hath that mark ? and whether the woman that john saw , was not rome ? and whether her cup was not universally received , so that all nations were drunk thereby ? qu. 7. antiq. 7. whether you have really this mark , that is , whether you can fetch out of all ages and nations , professors of your religion ; in particular , you are desired to name but one or two in the first six hundred years after christ of your profession ; for example , such as held the sole-sufficiency of scripture for deciding controversies , and denied the lawfulness and usefulness of infant-baptism ? whether any man can shew this mark , as it is here call'd for , without the help of humane history ? and whether humane history be a rule or ground for divine faith ? and whether humane histories ( especially those of the first three hundred ) after christ , were not most , if not all , burnt , which concerned the church ? and whether those that remain are not contradictory one to another ? also , whether infant-baptism was so much as heard of in the first hundred ? and then , how could any be named that denied the usefulness thereof ? also , whether a church , whose gathering , constitution and government is answerable to the scripture , be not the true church of christ ? and whether the churches of the baptists do not therein exceed all other whatsoever ? thus , reader , i have given thee some account of the causes why i publish this treatise ; i desire thee to peruse it diligently . if in any thing the truth be dishonoured , through any error maintained by me , ( of which yet i do solemnly profess i am not conscious to my self ) then do not forbear to blame me in a christian sort : only , if thou perceivest me deficient in point of language and method , i desire thee to bear with that ; for i am one that gets my bread by the labour of my hands , and never saluted the schools to gain the knowledge of their arts. from the common-goal in the castle of lincoln , the 10th of the 11 month , ( commonly called january ) 1662. farewel . to the nameless author of the vii . queries ; and in him , to all the sons of papal rome in the county of lincoln . hitherto the things pertaining to religion , as they concern the baptized congregations , ( commonly called anabaptists ) and you that are commonly called papists , have been very little controverted . and whether it shall ever please god to try his peoples faith and stedfastness , by your open opposition , as he hath done it by others , i may not presume to determine ; nor doubt i , but if it shall so fall out , he will advance his truth thereby . it is most certain , that of those many wayes whereby the antient path of the gospel hath for a long time been opposed , there is not found any more potent than yours ; and the rather , because your subtilty is utterly unknown to the generality of christians in this age and nation , where your religion hath , as it were , lain dormant for many years . the most dangerous stratagem wherewith you usually assail your opposits , is , your denyal of the scripture , &c. the high doom of judgment in matters of faith ; and ascribe that dignity to your selves , under pretence of your being the church ; wherein if you conquer any one , your work is , as it were , wholly accomplished . whereupon , i have here presented to the world , somewhat of your skill , in this important question , whether we are to resolve all differences in point of religion , only out of the written word of god ? yea , i have faithfully transcribed your last reply to my answers , which contains the sum of what you said in all your other papers . whereby the reader will discern ( if i think right ) wisdom used to the hurt of them that have received it . i have forborn at this time to publish all that hath passed between us about the seven queries ; partly , for that one thing is oft repeated in our several papers ; and partly , and indeed especially , for that it is to little purpose to controvert any particular point of religion , till we be agreed about the judge , that must determine our differences . now , whereas you do ascribe this prerogative to your selves , under pretence of your being the church of christ , i have therefore laid down several reasons , by which it may appear , that you are not the church , and so not that judge , whereunto you pretend to be so willing to adhere . i have likewise shewed , that we , your opposits , have the true claim to the title of christ's church ; that so , if you will appeal to her , you must then appeal to us ; which yet we believe you will not be perswaded to , nor indeed do we desire you should , whilst this is the question , whether we , or you , be the church ? no , we are content to say with augustine , ask not us in this case , we will not ask you , but let this matter be tryed by the scripture : yea , saith he , let the prophets , christ , and his apostles be judge , yea , we say further in his words , let matter with matter , cause with cause , reason with reason , counted by authority of the scriptures , not proper to any but indifferent witnesses to both parts . my final answer to the first of the seven queries , i have here published , with as little alteration or addition as possibly i could , to give the reader a true understanding of the matters in difference . and if you publish any thing hereupon , i desire no fairer dealing from you , than you have in this case from me . i have seriously considered what should be the design of your queries ; and hitherto it appears to be chiefly , to exalt the authority of mens traditions , above the lively oracles of god , the scriptures . for though it should be granted ( which you can never prove ) that there hath continued a true church at rome ever since it was there planted ; yet would it not follow , that all which your church holdeth under the title of ecclesiastical tradition , must needs be obeyed by us ; for it is certain that the jews did retain the state of a true church , when yet their traditions ( however by them accounted ) were but the traditions of men , which both the prophets and christ himself , termed vain worship ; especially such of them as made void the commands of god , as we are sure many of yours do ▪ and therefore , as christ said to them , why do you transgress the command of god by your tradition ? the same we are humbly bold to say to you , when you ask us , why we transgress your traditions ? for surely , of none can it more fitly be said than of you , that laying aside the commandments of god , you hold the tradition of men . tho. grantham . the baptist against the papist . the first part sheweth , the scripture and rome to be in contention about the supream seat of judgment in controversies of religion . the first of all controversies is founded upon this query : what is the authoritative judge of controversies ? and indeed till there be some agreement in this point , there can be no expectation of any fruitful issue of any controversie . now all controversies amongst the sons of men , are reduceable to one of these two heads , namely , things humane , or , things divine ; things precisely pertaining to this life , or things which only pertain to that which is to come ; concerns of a secular consideration , or concerns of a religious consideration . and according to the nature of these controversies , such ought the judge for decision thereof to be . concerning this judge of religious controversies , there are divers opinions . some say that the light , or that of god in every man , is this only infallible judge of all religious controversies . but if this be admitted , a multitude of inconveniences must needs follow , of which this is not the least , that there can be no end of controversies , because , if every man have this judge of all debates in himself , and he aver , that what he saith and doth is according to the voice of this judge ( or , that of god in him ) no man can take in hand to judge contrary thereunto , without becoming the judge's judge , and so violate the rule proposed . for this opinion refers not doubtful matters to that of god in some men , or a select number of men , but to that of god in every man. there is another opinion , which saith , that amongst all men which pretend to own christ , and challenge to themselves the title of his church , and yet do deny each other to have an interest in that title ; that amongst all such parties of the sons of men , the only infallible and authoritative judge of their controversies about religion , is the lord himself , as he speaketh by his spirit in the holy scriptures ; together with right reason : or thus , which is all one , the apostles and prophets , as they speak in their holy writings , are the onely infallible authoritative judge in these controversies . yet three things are in this opinion allowed : first , that the living voice of the pastors ( with the church ) in their respective ages wherin they live , are of great importance in order to the terminating strife in the church , as a church . secondly , that records of antiquity are of some usefulness for the resolving some controversies , and for the better discovery of some errors , yet not so absolutely necessary , but that the church may sufficiently resolve her controversies without them . thirdly , that there is a judgment of science to be allowed every man , as touching all things which he chuseth or refuseth in matters of religion , to be used with moderation and discreet subjection . and this is the opinion to which for my part i do adhere . there is another opinion which saith , that the papal church of rome is the supream judge and catholick moderatrix of all disputes in matters of faith , and that all are bound to hear and obey her voice under pain of damnation ; and that the scriptures , as taken in the second opinion , is not the judge of controversies . now this is the opinion which at this time i am to examine , which in much seriousness i humbly purpose to do , and leave it to the sober consideration of all men . and for the better discharge of this duty , it is meet we should understand what the papists mean by the church of rome . and this i find , that under that title they would involve the whole church of christ from the apostles dayes until this present time , at least all the faithful since the time that paul declares the roman church to have been famous , as rom. 1. 8. but this is the very thing denied by us : for though we willingly grant that there was a very famous church at rome , when paul wrote his epistle to them ; yet it followeth not , that there is such a church there now , or that all that ever from that time to this have walked in the steps of true faith , must needs be supposed to have been members of the roman church , or rather of the church of rome ( so called ) especially since it was papal . so that in this controversie they must be content to define the church of rome on this wise , ( viz. ) all that in any age since christ , was of the same faith and practice in things religious , which is at this day found in the papal church of rome , and those only , are the persons of whom the papal church of rome doth consist . and indeed this is as much as they can reasonably desire ; for if those holy men who lived in times past , were of a faith and practice contradistinct to that which rome hath now received , then may not the present papal church without wrong , challenge them to be of their church ? as for example : paul , who bore witness for christ at rome , and the christians there in his dayes , was of the church of christ at rome ; yet we deny that they were any part of the papal church of rome . the church of rome therefore , defined as before , i do deny to be the infallible authoritative judge of all controversies about matters of faith or religion : and i do further say , that the scriptures and right reason , as laid down in the second opinion , much more deserves to be received for this supream judge of controversies , than the papal church of rome : and that there is not an other umpire that can so effectually decide the controversies of religion , which depend between such parties of men as lay claim to the title of christ's church , and yet deny each other to have an interest therein . and how far forth the truth in this point hath been evidenced in that pro and con discourse ( so far as it relateth to the first of them ) which hath been occasioned by the writing of the seven queries i have before spoken of , is here offered to the consideration of all sober men , that profess to own the glorious gospel of the blessed god and our saviour jesus christ . the first query of the seven was this , propounded by the nameless papist . papist . whether we are to resolve all differences in point of religion , only out of the written word of god ? baptist . to which question these ensuing answers were given before i received the adversaries last paper , which , with the answers thereunto , i will transcribe verbatim . i say the answers were , that the word controversies being understood of such controversies only as depend between those parties of men who deny each other to be the church ; that then there is no other way whereby we can resolve those controversies , but by the assistance of god's spirit speaking to us [ through the undoubted prophets , and apostles , and primitive churches ] in the lively oracles of god , the scriptures of truth , together with the help of right reason in a way of subserviency to those divine directions . or , if the word controversies , shall relate only to all such controversies as fall within the compass of the church , that then to the former means , we are to joyn the living voice and authority of the church ( in present being ) assembled with her pastours , as the ordinary means appointed of god to terminate strife in the churches . but if the division in the church be so great , as that it be not this way decissive ; or the doubt so secret , as not this way to be resolved ; there is not then a better way , than for both parties to reason it out till truth and innocency do prevail , as the two tribes and an half did with the other tribes of israel , and prevailed , joshua 22. or in some doubtful cases the use of lots may be admitted for the resolution of them , acts 1. papist . it is worth observing , how many windings and turnings you have to avoid the difficulty of this query ; whether we are to resolve all differences in point of religion , only out of the written word of god ? first , you leave out the word [ only ] in which lay the very knot of the difficulty . 2. then you give me a piece of an answer , and keep in the living voice of the church , as a reserve for your second paper . 3. when you are shewed how you for sake your old fort , the sole sufficiency of scripture , as if you were afraid to come too near us , you give back again , and do your worst to discredit this living voice of the church , so that in effect it stands but for a meer cipher , as i foresaw it would when it came once to the scanning . 4. upon second thoughts , finding your error , by putting the query , what is become of the living voice of the church ? you shuffle again , and would gladly make something of it ; but this something , in the end , falls to just nothing , as i shall make it further appear by ripping up the particulars of this your last answer . baptist . i have used no windings to avoid the difficulty of the first query ; but you are to know , that when i first answered it , i took the word controversie to relate only to such controversies as depend between such persons as deny each other to have any present right to either the name or priviledges of the church . and indeed , i do not see how any other sense can be made of this query : for , under that word we , i suppose you included no more but your self and church , on the one party ; and us , to whom you sent the queries , on the other party ; and we well know that you account us no members of the church ; and you likewise know that we have the same opinion of you ; but when your observations ( or second paper ) took into the query all controversies which fall within the compass of the church , as such , i could do no less than tell you , that my answer did not exclude the living voice of the church in such cases ; [ but that my answer doth only exclude every such voice as exalteth it self above the spirit speaking in the scriptures : and whereas in your third paper , you told me , that to appeal to councils and fathers , is a clear way to agree all our differences ; i told you that this is a very cloudy way , and that because they are contrary to themselves , and one another . 2. till they be agreed , they cannot agree us . 3. and sith you take not the scripture as being of any authority , till they , as the church , give it you ; i demanded , by what you would agree them in their divisions ? 4. and to shew you how they are divided , i gave you divers instances concerning their divisions , as also touching the corruption which hath been found in divers popes . ] papist . 1. i had no reason to take notice of your excluding from the living voice of the church , every voice exalting it self above the voice of scripture , because it was a very needless exception , since the church arrogates no such power , but only to interpret the voice of scripture . 2. why this way of taking the sense of scripture from the living voice of the church , should be so cloudy as you say it is , i do no more understand , than that the living voice of a judge should be a cloudy way to understand the law by . as for your riddles , how we are to reconcile the fathers and councils when they seem to clash with their own assertions , but by having recourse to scripture : i answer briefly , that general councils have no such contradictions as you speak of . and as for the holy fathers , when there is any such difficulty in any one of them , we must look upon the rest what they say , and to follow their unanimous consent : for if we take them singly , no doubt they have erred , and these errors we know by their dissenting from the rest ; for otherwise , certainly the authority of any one of the antient fathers , when he expounds scripture , or relates the christian practice of his time , and is not censured or contradicted by the rest , or condemned by the church in a general council , is of greater authority to decide controversies in point of religion , or to know the true meaning of scripture , than any thing you have alledged , as we shall see by and by , when i have first examined what you bring to discredit the fathers and councils . against the fathers , you first bring st. aug. retract . 21. contradicting himself by saying , that , matth. 16. christ built not his church upon peter , but upon peter 's faith : sure you read not st. aug. for he there expounds that place of christ himself , and not of the faith of st. peter ; nor doth he recal his expounding it elsewhere of st. peter , but leaves both expositions as probable , concluding thus ; hunc autem sententiam quae sit probalitur eligat lector . is this fair dealing ? again , you bring in st. aug. contra . petil. c. 2 , 3 , 4. as contrary to himself and me , because he teaches , that the church is to be found out by the words of christ . but though ( i doubt ) you cannot make this appear in any of these three chapters , yet were it nothing to the purpose ; for we deny not but the church is to be found out by these clear marks , whereby the holy scripture hath deciphered her . next , you alledge st. chrysost . in psal . 22. and st. ambrose de sacrament . calling the blessed sacrament , a similitude or figure of christ's body and blood. i answer . 1. that it is the opinion of the learned , that neither st. chrysost . nor indeed any grecian , could be author of that work . 2. i say , the sacrament may be truly called the similitude of christ's body and blood , because it is not given in the form of flesh and blood , of which men would have a horror , as the same st. amb. observes , but under the forms of bread and wine . the next is st. dinis eccl. herarch . but quoting no place , i have not yet met with it ; i am sure that work is so clearly for us in this very point , that our adversaries the calvinists , and calvin , denies it to be his : st. aug. and tertull. are as clear for us , and what you bring out of them clearly answered by bellarm. de euchar. and you are to know that it is a general rule amongst the learned , that we are to explicate obscure places by those that are clear , if we mean to know the opinion of any author , it being impossible for any man to write so warily , but that sometbing may be objected out of him ( especially if he have writ much , as it is our case ) which may seem contrary to what he expresly teaches . and you had need observe this rule in expounding the scriptures themselves , or otherwise you will meet with a thousand absurdities and contradictions . against the councils you produce that of constantinople under constant . copron. as crying down transubstantiation . but this was a factious meeting , never owned for a council , neither by the greek nor latine fathers , and expresly condemned in the nicene council : and the jest is , this mock-council was so far from condemning transubstantiation as you affirm , that they swore by the body and blood of christ in the eucharist , to abolish the worship of images : [ something should here have been said concerning bertram , who is said to have opposed transubstantiation ; but in the transcription of my third paper , there was an errata , and the instance is not material ; so that what is said about him , i will expunge in both papers . ] you say further against the authority of councils , that they have contradicted each other in their decrees , about the laityes communicating in one or both kinds : but we grant that the church may vary in customs of this nature , which being indifferent , may be altered as she shall think fit , according to several circumstances : what we deny is , that the church , or general councils ever made contrary decrees about the belief of any point of faith. it is no wonder that you have a fling against the pope , after you have been so bold with holy fathers , and general councils ; but i must tell you , though many of our divines hold him infallible , when he speaks ex cathedra , as they call it , yet is it not the opinion of all , and consequently no article of our faith. only we agree in this , that for preserving peace in the church , all are bound so far to submit to the popes decrees , as not to oppose them until a general council be called , from whose judgment we admit no appeal . what you say of the wicked lives of some of them , is nothing to the purpose ; for as wicked caiphas play'd the prophet , so might the bishops of rome , with the assistance of the holy ghost , be true interpreters of god's word , for all their wicked lives ; such gratia gratis date , which are given for the good of others , do not argue his sanctity that hath them . to make you a true prophet , i will here cry out , what is become of the living voice of the church , since you have done what you can to discredit her , by casting all the dirt you can in her face , as it is evident , unless you will throw out the holy fathers and general councils ( the churches representatives ) out of the church ! baptist . i perceive our judgments differ concerning the living voice of the church , what it is ? i have told you , that i take it for the present church and her pastours , in those particular ages wherein they live . you take this living voice to be the decrees of councils , and books of the antient fathers . and here i cannot but marvel , why you should be willing to appeal to the books of the antients , and their written decrees , as a living voice , and clear way to decide our controversies , and yet appeal from the books of the prophets and apostles , as being but dead letters , and senceless characters . certainly , if any writings now extant , may be called the churches living voice , the holy scripture doth better deserve that title than any other . nor will it suffice here to object ( as it is the papists usual way ) that our difference is about the scripture and the sense thereof , &c. for the same difference is found amongst us , touching the books and sense of councils and fathers : yea , i think i may be bold to say , that even the learned are so much divided concerning them in both respects , as that they can never be therein reconciled . but is it so ? that the voice of the fathers , &c. who only speak in their writings , is a means or way of equal clearing to decide our differences , as the voice of a living judge in a case of law amongst men ? then what reasonable man can render a reason , that the voices of the prophets and apostles , though only speaking to us in their books and decrees , may not be appealed to , as a clear way to decide our differences ? sith all men , professing christianity , must confess that the prophets and apostles speak with as much life and power , certainty and authority , as any that ever writ since their time : no-whither now can you turn your selves , but to your selves ( as i have formerly noted ) and take upon you to be the only living voice , that must , without controul , interpret fathers , councils , and scriptures too ; and when you have done , sit down as judge , to give sentence for your selves , and against your opposers . well , you have assigned us a judge of controversies ; to wit , the fathers and councils of the church ( long ago deceased ) and this is a clear way , you say , to agree all . but i have noted that it 's a very cloudy way , and that because they could not yet agree themselves ; for they are opposite each to other to this day , insomuch as you are utterly unable to reconcile them , since ( as i have shewed ) you must not make use of the scripture to that purpose ; because , before the scripture can have any authority to any purpose , ( according to your judgment ) your councils must deliver it to us as the word of god ; which they cannot do till they be found , first , holy fathers and councils of the church ; and secondly , at unity among themselves , and each with himself . and i have asked you , how you will effect this difficult work ? to which you answer ; first , that general councils have no such controversies as i talk of . secondly , that when there is such difficulty in any one of the fathers , we must look upon the rest what they say , and so follow their unanimous consent ; for ( say you ) if we take them singly , no doubt they have erred , and these errors we know by their dissenting from the rest . i answer first , that general councils have erred , and that in matters of faith , is undeniable , if records may be credited rather than you . as first , the council of arimi . did err so , as to conclude for the arrian heresie , namely , that there was a time when christ was not the son of god : and sure you account that an errour in point of faith. secondly , the council of ephesus did err so , as to conclude for the eutichian heresie , namely , that the body of christ was not of one substance with ours ; and is not this an errour in point of faith ? or will you say , that these things were never contradicted and censured by other councils ? these things are not denied by your eminent disputant . see the book intituled , certamen religiosum . so then it appears , that general councils have erred , and contradicted each another in very high points of faith. moreover , as to the things whereof i chiefly spake in my last paper , it is manifest that councils have contradicted one another about the sacraments ; for the council of constance , confirmed by pope martin the fifth , doth curse the laity , or excommunicate such as receive the sacrament in both kinds . and yet by the council of basil , the laity are allowed to receive it in both ; which council was also confirmed by a pope , namely , felix the fifth . sure one of these councils must needs err . but you have a way to salve this errour ( such as it is ) and that is to tell me , that the church may vary in customs of this nature . sure this is a corrupt opinion , by which it will follow , that we have no certainty of , nor constancy in any ordinance of christ ; for if the church have power to take the cup away , she hath power also to take the bread away ; for certainly she hath as much to do with the one , as the other . but truly this your variation , as it is clear beside the institution of christ , and the doctrine of paul , so it hath in a manner destroyed both baptism , and the supper of the lord , as is evident by the practice used in divers of your masses , where the people partake neither of the bread nor cup. as also your peda-rantism , hath in a great measure defrauded the sons of men of the baptism of repentance . but be pleased to consider , that this your sacrilegious division of this sacrament , is condemned by cyprian , gelasius , and others . first , cyprian saith , how can we exhort the people to shed their blood for christ , if we deny them the blood of him ? the division of this mystery cannot be without great sacriledge , saith gelasius . again , you cannot be ignorant how the council of carthage , decreed the books of tobit , judith , ecclesiasticus , sapience , and maccabees , should be received for canonical , notwithstanding they were rejected out of the sacred canon by the council of laodicea ; and here by the way i may take notice , how you would have me walk by such a rule as you your self do not observe ; for you propose the judgment of those who lived nearest to the apostles times , as my safest rule to walk by , supposing they knew the mind of god , or christ , better than those that came after ; but then why do you reject the judgment of the laodicean council , which is more antient than that of carthage , which yet you follow in receiving the books of maccabees into your canon of holy scripture . secondly , it is marvellous to see , what work you make in reconciling the fathers without the scriptures . and seeing you are so hardy as to undertake this task without scripture , as undoubtedly you see you must , or else grant , that the scripture must be that whereby we must decide all controversies in religion ; for certainly , if we must decide all the fathers controversies in religion with or by the scripture , it is not then very likely that either we or they should decide ours without them : but i say , sith you have undertaken to decide the fathers differences without scripture , pray tell me , before you meddle with their differences , how you know them to be holy fathers of the church ? can you prove them church-members without scripture ? i believe this is as hard a task as to reconcile their differences without scripture ; and yet this also must you do , before you can look upon the scripture as any rule for either them , or your self . you tell me , if i take the fathers singly , no doubt they have erred : yet you say i must follow their unanimous consent , ( a pretty paradox ) follow their consent ! in what ? why say you , in their interpretation of scripture . of scripture ! why there is no such thing as yet for them to interpret ; for you know ( that by your own direction ) we have laid by the scripture , and must reconcile these fathers by themselves . miserable guide ! hast thou not led me into a labyrinth , and run thy self into a sufficient maze ? i 'le back again and see how these fathers themselves direct me in this difficult point . and first i meet with famous augustine , who tels me how he took notice of the fathers that were before him . saith he , my consent without exception i owe not to any father , were he never so well learned , but only to the canonical scripture : for whereas the lord hath not spoken , who of us can say it is this or that ? and if he do say so , how can he prove it ? yea , saith he , i require the voice of the shepherd reade me this matter out of the prophets , psalms , the gospel , or the apostles epistles . neither ( saith he ) ought we to take the dispensations of all men , how catholick soever they be , or be they never so commendable as we take the canonical scriptures , as though we may not ( saving the honour that 's due to such men ) reprove or refuse any thing of their writings , if we find they meant otherwise than the verity doth allow , by the help of god found by us , or by others . again , he saith , i am not moved with cyprian's epistles ; for i do not take the letters of cyp. as the canonical scripture , but i do try his writings by the canonical scripture ; and whatsoever in them doth agree with the authority of the holy scripture , i do receive it with his commendation ; and whatsoever doth not — — i do by his good leave refuse it . and for further testimony of augustine's integrity , hear what he saith of himself : trust not me , ( saith he ) nor credit my writings , as if they were canonical scripture , but whatsoever thou findest in the word , although thou didst not believe it before , yet ground thy faith on it now ; and whatsoever thou readest of mine , unless thou know it certainly to be true , give no certain assent unto it . again , he thus teacheth , we must be partakers of other mens writings , wholly after the manner of bees ; for they flie not alike to all flowers , nor where they sit do they snatch all quite away , but snatching so much as may serve to their honey-making , they take their leave of the rest . even so we , if we be wise , having gotten so much of others as is sound and agreeable to truth , we will leap over the rest . which rule , if we keep in reading and alledging the fathers words , we shall not swerve from our profession , the scriptures shall have the sovereign place , and yet the doctors of the church shall lose no part of their due estimation . and saith origen , we have need to bring the scriptures for witness , for our meanings and expositions without them , have no credit , — — the discussing of our judgements must be taken only of the scriptures . thus you see the fathers were not of your mind , that the readers of their books should not try them by the scripture , but the contrary ; and that as we find them consenting to , or dissenting from scripture ( not one another as you teach ) accordingly they advise us to believe , or not believe them . as i have said , it is a cloudy way to appeal to councils and fathers , so you now prove my saying true : for i alledged augustine , as being opposite to you and your church , touching the meaning of matth. 16. upon this rock , &c. and , first , you tell me i read him not ; but i must tell you , i read him after a scholar sufficient : and though your reading differ something from his , yet they both destroy the received opinion of your church concerning that text ; for if christ be that rock , as you confess augustine there teacheth , then it cannot be meant positively of peter , and so not consequently of your popes . my quotation out of chrysostom in ps . 22. you invalidate , by telling me , that book was not writ by him . and this i find to be the usual way of learned-men , when the passage alledged is clear and convincing , then a suspition must be cast upon the book , &c. i could instance the best part of a thousand books , epistles , &c. which are intituled under the names of the antient fathers ; amongst which , as you observe , is reckoned the book of dynis the areopagite , which i alledged in my rejoynder . and do not these things contribute something towards the proof of my assertion , namely , that it is a cloudy way to appeal to fathers and councils to decide controversies in religion . if then your way be cloudy , mine must needs be clear , unless you can assign a third way , opposit to both ; for undoubtedly there is a clear way to decide controversies . you again prescribe me a way to find the meaning of the fathers , and that is , to explicate their obscure places by such as are plain , &c. but by your leave , we can neither know which of their speeches are obscure or plain , without some rule whereby to know this . and now , what can supply this our necessity ? for example , augustine is sometimes read , affirming the sacrament to be the real body and blood of christ ; otherwhiles he is read directly opposit to this : and how can you , or any body else , tell which of these sayings is clear or obscure , fith none must be permitted the use of his reason ( by you ) in this controversie ; and how he should judge according to faith , i know not , sith you , as yet , debar us of that by which faith now cometh , namely , the doctrine of the prophets and apostles as contained in the scriptures . papist . something you would say for this living voice of the church you once had required as necessary to resolve differences in religion , but this signifies nothing in our present query : for , after all your shifting , i cannot perceive that you make use of her authority in point of faith , ( which is our qu. ) but only to take up other quarrels , by exhorting , reproving , &c. and in this also it seems you will be your own judge , whether she follow christ or no. three things you affirm in relation to the churches authority . 1. that she is to rule her self according to scripture ; which no body denies . 2. that the church in former ages is not to be a rule for after ages to rule themselves by ; because she could not foresee the controversies that rise up afterwards . what if the same errors be revived now , which in their times were condemned , is not the judgment of the church in those dayes a safe president for us to condemn the same errors ? besides , is it not evident that the pastors of the church , the nearer they were to christ's time , were the better able to judge of christ's doctrine ? you say , 3dly . that the church is to be no rule for those that are out of her communion . a strange assertion . as if a clear light ( as the church is in holy scripture ) with so many marks to know her by ; as unity , sanctity , universality , miracles , &c. were not a good means for him that gropes in the dark to find out his way . look well upon these marks , and you will find them to agree only to the roman catholick church , and to no upstart congregation , and consequently , that you ought in all reason to give her the hearing in matters of faith , and to have recourse unto her , as to the pillar and ground of truth , 1 tim. 3. which place you let slip , and this under pain of being accounted a heathen , &c. matth. 18. for though this place doth point out chiefly the obedience which members of the church owe her in point of discipline , as you say well enough , yet hath it no small force in our present debate , since those that will not hear her voice when she ecchoes out the voice of god , may well be esteemed by her as a heathen . and in your own sence i suppose you will have your proviso , that the church is to be obeyed only when she ruleth according to god's word , of which you will be judge too : so in conclusion all comes to this , that you and your spirit must be judge of all disputes . and then have not i reason to ask again ( since i , or any body else , may challenge as large a share in the spirit and right reason as you ) who shall take up the quarrel ? and is not my comparison here very pat , that there must needs be as great confusion in your church , as in a kingdom where every one were left to decide his own case ? this was not the old way , as you may see , deut. 17. 8 , 9. and malach. 2. 7. which places you had no mind to take notice of : and yet you charge me for letting pass your instance of st. stephen , concerning the libertines , alexandrians , &c. which makes nothing at all for your pretended evidence of god's word : for though his judgment might be well taken in expounding scripture , as being full of the holy ghost , and confirming what he said by miracles , as the scripture tells us he did , yet this is not your case , for i think you will not arrogate so much to your self . what you say of christ and his apostles vindicating their doctrine out of scripture , is very true , and our church doth the same : but it is not true , that either christ , or the primitive saints were alwayes wont to send their proselytes to the scripture , to regulate their faith. did not christ himself send st. paul to ananias for instruction ? had you been of his counsel , you would have rather wished him to look into the word of god , and see there what he was to do . and when there arose a debate , even in the apostles dayes , about the necessity of circumcision , act. 15. did they not assemble the church , and so pronounce sentence conciliariter , with a visum est spiritui sancto & nobis ? baptist . [ it is here worth noting how you dispute beyond the due bounds of the query , which , as it concerns you papists and us baptists , hath no relation to the differences which arise in the church , as such , and indeed you go amiss in this matter throughout the whole discourse . ] here you seem to acknowledge , that the church ought to rule according to scripture ; but you will allow me to judge whether she do so or not . but i answer , that there is a judgment of science , as well as a judgment authoritative ; the latter i know cannot be exercised by me , nor any other member of the church , because this power lyeth in the church as imbodied together ; but the former , to wit , a judgment of science or knowledge , is particular to each individual , and so my self , if a member of the church , am allowed the exercise thereof , even in matters of religion , 1 cor. 10. 15. i speak to wise men : judge ye what i say . the apostle doth not here give , any wise man at corinth leave to judge of that which he said , so as to censure what he had delivered , yet he must exercise his understanding to judge of what paul had said , thereby to find out the verity of what was spoken . but yet i do confess , that our case , and the case of christians then , do differ : for paul was a foundation-layer , a master-builder , ( so that the members might not so well judge then , as now , yet ) the church now is to build upon the foundation which is laid already : and you know that i have in my rejoynder acknowledged , that it very nearly concerns particular members of the church , to have great regard to the judgment of the church , when , after serious debate , they deliver their sentence in any point disputable . and further ( as touching your church ) you tell me anon , that even a heathen may judge of the holiness of your church , by the law of conscience ; and then , why may he not by the same law judge your church concerning her unholiness ? nay verily , he must be able to speak both wayes , or else he hath no judgment . and if a heathen have this priviledge and ability , then why not a man professing christianity , who hath not only the conscience-law , but also the written law of god , by which he understands things more excellent , rom. 2. from all this i only conclude , that each particular ought to have the free exercise of his judgment in what he chuseth or refuseth , sith without this he cannot chuse or refuse any thing with confidence , nor to his comfort . and concerning controversies in the church , i do not see that ( in these dayes ) we are bound to follow the sentence of a multitude , ( though assembled in council ) so , as to hold their sentence absolutely infallible ; for the promise of infallibility is not made to a certain select number * of bishops , but to the church , taken collectively ; and we may remember that a great assembly of prophets in the old church , erred in judgment with unanimous consent , when yet the lord had one micaiah at home which understood the truth of his will. wherefore i here conclude , although the members of the church ought to weigh with great respect the things concluded of by their pastors , yet so may it be that they may swerve from the truth , whilst god clears it up by some particular rather than by such an assembly . and to this agrees very well a saying of gerson , if it should so happen that there should be a general council assembled , in which such a man were present as is well instructed , if the greatest part should decline through malice or ignorance , to the opposition of the gospel , such a lay-man may be objected , against the said general council . and saith panormitan , in matters which , concern faith , the saying of a lay-man ought to be preferred before that of the pope , if his saying be more probable by better authority of scripture than that of the pope . you often tell me , that to appeal to the spirit speaking in the scriptures , &c. is not a sufficient way to decide our controversies , and that because you may challenge them to be for you , &c. to which i answer , by retorting your argument thus , that which you call the living voice of the church , to wit , volumns of fathers , and decrees of councils , is therefore insufficient to decide our controversies , because your opposites do say they are for them , and against you : and now you must answer your own query , viz. who must take up this quarrel ? you answer , that we must explicate them one by another ; the places which are obscure , by such as are plain . and then i still ask you , why we may not as well agree our selves this way by the volumns of the prophets and apostles ? i shewed before , how you misapply that text , matth. 18. and though the case is so plain , as that you cannot defend your self , yet you seem loth to decline your error , and would fasten a very gross passage upon me ; namely , that i should say , that the church is no rule for those that are out of her communion , as not to be a light for such as grope in the dark . a manifest wrong ; i only say and prove , that those that are not of the church , are not within the power of her discipline ; nor can she reasonably desire unconverted ones to appeal to her judgment-seat in controversies between them and her . and i asked you , if you would not scorn us , if we should call upon you to appeal unto us as your judges , whether we , or you , be the church ? and not doubting but you would , i concluded , that it is equally absurd for you , to desire us to appeal to you as our judges . but you may find it plain enough in my papers , that i do believe the church so to be a rule to the world , as to shew them the way of life , and so a good means for their illumination and conversion . — as for your three texts , 1 tim. 3. deut. 17. 8 , 9. malachi 2. 7. as they do your cause no good , so they do mine no harm : i grant the church is the pillar and ground of the truth , and that she hath power to hear and determine all controversies among her members , as aforesaid ; and that it is the duty of the members , to enquire of their pastors , what is the way of god concerning them : but what of all this ? ergo , the papal church of rome is the only infallible judge , and moderatrix of all contention about religion . ergo , we must all appeal to the papal church of rome , as our judge , in this question , whether we be of the church , or not ? though we be in doubt , whether she her self be a true church , or not ? yea , though we are satisfied she is not . are not these monstrous consequences ? be it here observed , that i do believe the church of christ to be the pillar of truth , so , as that she was never so over-clouded with error , but that she hath enjoyed the fruition of that promise , matth. 16. in some good measure ever since it was made : nor shall she ever so close with the gates of hell , as by general consent , and full authority to dissert that faith , which having christ for its object , is the rock she is built upon : and therefore you see , i hold the church cannot err ( in some sense ) and indeed , he that holds the contrary , must ( for ought i see ) raze out that promise , matth. 16. and many other . and yet nothing from all this accrues to the papal church of rome . i alledged stephen , as defending the truth by the authority of scripture only , &c. nor can it be groundedly imagined , that ( had it been the mind of god , that such as are not of the church , should be summoned to her tribunal ) stephen ( being full of the holy spirit , the leader into all truth ) would have omitted the use of that means , but he knew that such authority the church had none , as i shewed from 1 cor. 5. what have i to do to judge them that are without ? do not ye also judge them that are within ? and therefore he could not mention any such power . and though stephen did many wonders among the people , yet at this time when he so powerfully vanquished his adversaries , he did none at all , but only overcame them by the assistance of the spirit speaking in the scripture , &c. i desired you to shew me but one instance , where ever any of the primitive saints did appeal to the church , of which they were present members , as judge between them and such as never received their doctrine : but you have not done it , nor indeed can it be done . as i shewed , that stephen appealed to scripture only , &c. so i also shewed , that it was the way of christ and his apostles , frequently to vindicate their doctrine against such as were not of their church , by appealing to the scriptue ( especially amongst such as owned the scripture ) this you confess ; and also you tell me , that your church doth the same : but this cannot be true of all your doctrine , because you have told me , that many points of your faith are resolved without the written word of god ; or else you never answered my first antiquery , which demandeth , what controversie in religion you can resolve without the written word of god ? and in your answer you assigned , the procession of the holy ghost from the father and the son , sabbath , infant-baptism , and many other points of faith ; and i shall shew anon , that we have it pro confesso , from your champions , that there be some points of your faith , which is not grounded upon , nor mentioned in the scriptures ; and therefore your church cannot vindicate such points of her faith and doctrine by the scripture . although christ sent paul to ananias for instruction , yet it followeth not , that we must take romes instructions without scripture . is there no difference between the time that now is , and then was ? much of the scripture ( if not all the new testament ) was then unwritten . again , ananias was immediatly sent of god. if you are so sent , prove it to us , as ananias did , by shewing the miracle of restoring paul's sight . if you are not so sent , to what purpose do you alledge this text ? i believe i might form you a monsirous consequence here . papist . you that will not trust the churches judgment , lay down four wayes of resolving doubts ; the first , to argue it out till truth prevail . but if we must argue only out of scripture , and be our own interpreters of it , there can be no end of arguing , as i have often shewed . the second , to appeal to god as the two tribes did , josh . 22. a rare way to end controversies , to look for miracles in our disputes . the third , to appeal to scripture , and right reason : but if i challenge them to be on my side , who must take up the difference ? the fourth , to cast lots . but though the apostles did it , who certainly were inspired to do so , yet must not we presume to tempt god , or to look for the like miracles , or to build our faith upon such doubtful events . baptist . you here wrong us , to say , that we will not trust the judgment of the church ; for the church , truly and universally taken , we do credit , as her that is appointed of the father , to be the pillar and ground of the truth ; of which church , we take the prophets and apostles to be the principal members , and so in all points of faith , to be credited in the first place . but if by church , you mean the papal church of rome , i confess we dare not trust her judgement , at least , not in all that she saith ; for example these following : 1. your church tells us , that it is not needful for the scriptures to be read to , or by the laity , in a tongue which they understand : and that though they pray ( after another ) in latine , though they understand not what they say , yet such prayer is sufficient , rhem. test . annot. in 1 corinthians . 2. your church tells us , that the sacrifice of your masse , is available to take away , or obtain remission of sins by the work wrought . con. trident. sess . 22. that the whole masse is a propitiatory sacrifice for the quick and dead ; and whoso saith , it is only a commemoration of christ's death , &c. is accursed . con. trent . 3. your church holds , that such as deny that the real flesh and blood of christ , is in the bread and wine of the sacrament , ought to be burnt to death . 4. your church holds , and tells us , that images , and old clothes of saints , ought to be worshipped with religious worship . 5. that men are as fully justified by good works , as they are damned by evil works . 6. that it is unlawful for ministers of christ to marry . 7. that the scripture doth not contain all things necessary to salvation . to omit many other , these are points of your churches judgment , which we dare not trust , till by you , or some other , proved to be truths . i assigned the use of lots as lawful in some doubtful cases to end controversies , and for proof , i quoted acts 7. and this you will not allow for two reasons . 1. because ( you say ) the apostles were inspired to use them ; but were it so ( as that you cannot prove ) yet it cannot be denied , but we may do some things which they were inspired to do : for the holy ghost was to lead them into all truth , and they were to lead us into the same truth , by their example and doctrine , joh. 16. 13. 1 cor. 11. 1 , 2. and be it here observed , that the holy ghost led those , our teachers , to ordain the ministry by prayer , and laying on of hands , acts 6 , and acts 13. which practice of theirs , is a good president to act by ; a president i say ; for this practice is not expresly commanded in scripture , no more than the use of lots in the election of ministers . if it here be objected , that christ might give laying on of hands in precept when he was with his apostles . i answer , so also might he give them the other to be used , when there might be persons found of seemingly equal fitness to serve the church . 2. you reckon the use of lots , acts 1. amongst miracles , as your other reason , why we may not use them to decide any controversie ; but why you should so do , i see no more reason , than to say josh . 22. mention'd any miracles towards the composure of the difference between the two tribes , and israel ; where in truth no such thing can be found , though you seem to affirm it . papist . in my last paper , i took notice how you sent us to heaven for miracles , to take up our quarrels after the example of moses , whose cause was cleared that way : here you deny you brought in the instance of moses to this purpose , which , how true it is , every one that can reade must needs see . for , are not these your words ? but you say , reason is on my side , &c. and demand by whom we must be tryed , who must take up the quarrel ? i answ . even the same that took up quarrels of this nature in times past , exod. 7 , &c. do you not here tell us plainly , that god must take up our quarrels * as he did those of moses ? and truly otherwise i might ( as you foresaw ) very possibly tell you , that your allegation was nothing to the question , who must take up the quarrel ? it is pretty to see what stuff you make of it , and then how you digress , to rail at our baptism and pastours ; i say , rail : for you bring no proof at all . baptist . i have said enough to satisfie any reasonable man , that it doth not follow from my alledging exod. 7. that i send you , or any body else , to heaven for miracles to decide our controversies . for at the first i shewed , that in the case of moses there was miracle against miracle ; only god gave a note of distinction between those signs , insomuch as the serpent that came of moses rod devoured the other : from whence i only noted , that it's god's way to give some powerful note of distinction , between the witness of his servants , and deceivers . and now , is not this my observation very pertinent to our case ? you say , you are the church . we say , we are the church . here is testimony against testimony , as there was miracle against miracle ; and if the lord do not now give some powerful note of distinction between our doctrine and yours , concerning the church , as he did between stephen's and the alexandrians , i pray , who must take up the quarrel between u s ? is it fit that you should be judge in your own case here ? if so , why may not we ? if the councils and fathers were of the papal church , then it is not any more reasonable that you should summon us to their arbitriment , than it is for us to summon you to the judgment of our predecessors ; but forasmuch as you and we are agreed , that the prophets and apostles were infallibly assisted to write the mind of god for us to observe ; therefore it 's most reasonable that we should both appeal to them . if you object , the prophets , &c. are not alive to interpret their writings , and that our difference is about the sense thereof ; i answer , this objection is every way as forceable against the decrees of councils , and volumns of fathers ; for their writings must be interpreted , expounded , &c. and we differ about the meaning of them . secondly , the way you assign us to agree them , is to consult them together , &c. now i would know , why we may not be allowed this way to seek out the meaning of the prophets and apostles ? in a word , there is not one objection which yet i have met with , levelled against our appealing to holy scripture , &c. as the only infallible means to decide all controversies between you and us ; but the same objections are more forceable against all that you appeal to , for decision of the said controversies . papist . you except against our miracles , because we bring them to prove our church by ; but if it appear as it doth , that god works miracles upon those that actually call upon his blessed mother , and his other saints , or whilst they are performing some of our religious practices , which you abhor , is it not an argument that god approves them ? it is god then , and not we , that brings miracles to prove our church . baptist . you will still have your miracles to be an infallible mark of the truth of your church , especially those of the blessed virgin ( you mean the image so called at loreto ) or as you phrased it in your third paper , the lady of loreto . but let me tell you , that there is small cause you should refer me to what is done there , as an infallible mark that your church is the church of christ . for by the relation of two eye-witnesses , which i have read , it is a place of most gross idolatry , blind devotion , and deceit . one of which authors , was once a teacher of your church , who , before his separation from you , travelled to loreto , to see if the image of the virgin would inform him of the truth or falshood of the roman church , as it is now constituted ; for he was doubtful in this matter , and had been informed , that if any person were guilty of mortal sin ( which if the papal church be the church of christ , he concluded he must needs be guilty of , in questioning her , at least in the judgment of the fryers , who waited there upon that image ) he had been informed ( i say ) that if such as were guilty of mortal sin , did but pray before the lady of loreto , the said image would either blush , or fall into a sweat , and so resolve the petitioner in the affirmative . but if we may believe the lady of loreto , and this informant , then it is no mortal sin to think , that the papal church is not the church of christ : for this doubtful man prayed earnestly , and beheld the lady as stedfastly , but no sweat nor change befel her at all . therefore , according to the fryers rule , it is no mortal sin to think the papal church of rome is not the church of christ . but this one thing is especially observable here , that whereas you would perswade your self , and others , that i send men to heaven for miracles to decide controversies ; it is manifest that you are the man that is herein guilty : for the controversie is , whether the papal church of rome , be the church of christ ? you affirm ; i deny . to decide this controversie , you refer me to miracles , as the special means , or chief mark , whereby i may be resolved in this matter , as is evident in this , and your two former papers ; so that what you would cast upon me , falls clearly upon your self , save that , instead of sending me to heaven , you send me to loreto . [ in my rejoynder i urged , that of necessity the scripture must decide all our controversies , as aforesaid ; because , as things now stand , the word ( or scripture ) is antecedent to the church , so that inasmuch as it is impossible to find the church without the scripture , it supposes clearly that the scripture must be found before the church : and so , if the scripture must of necessity resolve this great controversie about the church , it consequently followeth that they must resolve all controversies ; because all religious controversies are involved in this one general query , where is , and who are the church ? ] something here , which the adversary doth further write , is omitted , because it may be more fitly taken notice of afterward . papist . i had reason to take notice of your general saying , that the word was antecedent to faith and the church , since there was a church , and consequently faith before the scripture was written . now it seems you meant not the scripture by the word , but i know not what word , which was afterward committed to writing . it is past my understanding what word you mean ; for since it cannot be verbum scriptum before it be written , it must either be verbum traditum , and i suppose you will not allow that ; or verbum dei patris ; and that cannot be the word you speak of , as committed to writing . baptist . by that word which was antecedent to faith and the church , as it relates to the church under the patriarchs , &c. i mean the word which god spake to them , and by them , at sundry times , and in divers manners . and if you take that term [ word ] to relate to the church of christ in its plantation , then i speak partly of the written word of god , and partly of that which was ( at that time ) only spoken by word of mouth , by christ and his faithful stewards ; and if you will call this part of the word , verbum traditum , i say , that is the word i speak of . and i do also say , this word was afterward committed to writing ; which word , together with the former , i mean that of the prophets , is that whereon the church ( as now considered ) is founded * , by which she must be known . and in this sense , i say , the holy scripture is now antecedent to the church . and therefore well spake that learned person , chrysostom , when he forewarned the sons of men , that if they took heed to any thing , in order to their knowing the church ( in the latter times ) beside scripture , they would fall headlong into the abomination which maketh desolate , and not be able to know the true church . baptist . i think it meet here to give the reader some account of my judgment of these five texts , which i brought to justifie my answer to the first query ; which , with my answer , was as followeth . qu. whether we are to resolve all differences in point of religion , only out of the written word of god ? answ . the spirit speaking in the scripture , together with right reason as truely subservient , is that whereby we are to resolve all differences , &c. for proof i cited , isa . 8. 20. 1 tim. 6. 3. 1 joh. 4. 6. 2 joh. 9 , 10. 2 thess . 3. 2. where note , that under the term we , ought not to be understood , any person but the papists on the one part , and the baptists on the other , who do deny each other to be the church of christ . now that the church is to defend her self against all that come to spoil her of her church-state , by the scripture onely ( as that which includes her whole strength ) is that which i brought these texts to prove . and first for that place , isa . 8. 20. the prophet foreseeing a judgment coming upon israel , even such , as god would hide himself from them ; and the law and testimony should be like a book bound and sealed up ; as ver . 16 & 17. compared with ch . 29. 11 , 12. the prophet likewise foreseeing , that when god should hide his face , israel would enquire of wisards , and such as spoke from familiar spirits ( as saul did , when under the like judgment , as 1 sam. 28. 6 , 7 , 8. ) wherefore the prophet , that he might warn the remnant of faithful ones , whom he foresaw would be as wonders amongst the rest , commands them , as from the lord , that when men should say unto them , seek unto such as have familiar spirits , &c. to go to the law , as being their way to go to god himself : for saith he , should not a people seek unto their god ? to the law , &c. and certifies them that by that they should know deceivers ; for , saith he , if they speak not according to this word , [ the law ] there is no light in them : so that i infer thus much , that when such as are enemies to the church come to invade the saints with their deceit , the only infallible way to know them to be deceivers , is , to enquire of god's law and testimony . i know that israel had the testimony or standing oracle , beside the written law. and the church now hath the new testimony open in the church , beside the law & prophets ; & hereunto , i say , the church is only to apply her self , as aforesaid , to find out the deceit of those who would rob her of that inheritance , which she holdeth by the deeds of god's law , and promises , contained in scripture ; by these , as the only infallible rule , she knows those to be lyars , who say they are the church , and are not . and to this agrees the next three scriptures , the very reading whereof sheweth , that when the controversie is between the church and such as pretend falsly to that title , the onely infallible means to refel them , is , the spirit speaking in scripture , &c. for thus saith the first of them : if any man teach otherwise , and consent not to wholsom words , even the words of our lord jesus christ , and the doctrine that is according to godliness , he is proud , knowing nothing , but doting about questions , &c. thus saith the second , he that knoweth god , heareth us : he that is not of god , heareth not us . hereby know we the spirit of truth , and the spirit of error . the third saith thus , whoso transgresseth , and abideth not in the doctrin of christ , hath not god. he that abideth in the doctrine of christ , hath both the father and the son. if there come any unto you , and bring not this doctrine , receive him not into your house , neither bid him god-speed . from these texts it appears , that unless the papists can produce something which they can infallibly prove to be christ's doctrine , beside what is contained in holy scripture ; or , that the apostles may be heard as infallibly by some other means , as by the holy scripture ; or , that the saints received some doctrine for christs , that is not contained in the scripture ; i say , unless they can infallibly shew something of this nature , my answer is good . but if they can produce any other thing of such authority , then i acknowledge my answer to be deficient . howbeit , if any man , or the church her self , do decide a controversie , by insisting upon the scripture , this is no more than my answer included ; for i do not imagine that the church must not pronounce what is contained in the scripture : but if she hath power to speak as from the lord ( in these dayes ) when yet the scripture saith no such thing , then i profess my self short of understanding the power of the church . 2 thess . 3. 2. i only made use of this text thus far , that in religious controversies the apostle gives reason her place , and therefore desired to be delivered from unreasonable men . papist . once more you offer to justifie your consequences drawn out of the five texts . but i ask once more , to what purpose did you bring them ? was it not to prove what you had said in your answer to my query , that the scripture , so we took right reason along with us , was sufficient to resolve all controversies in matters of faith ? no rational man can reade your first paper but must think so ; and indeed , otherwise you must have brought them to prove something that was not under debate , which had been impertinent . must not that very assertion of yours be the consequence to these five texts ? and them , have i not reason to cry out , that there never appeared such monstrous consequences ? but , to avoid this inconvenience you fall into the other , and will have some of your texts brought to prove certain propositions , which you had not mentioned in your answer . howsoever , let us now see what you make of them . isa . 8. 20. god's people are commanded to have recourse rather to the law , &c. than to superstitious oracles , ad legem magis , &c. and they have a sign given them to convince such oracles of falshood , if they speak not according to the word or prophesie of isaiah . this is the clear sense of that place , out of which you draw this strange consequence . ergo , the scripture , &c. is to resolve all matters of faith. a strange consequence , i say , as will appear , if we turn your euthymeme into a syllogism , thus : recourse is to be had rather to the law ; than to false oracles , whose falsehood appears , if they speak not according to the word or prophecy of isaiah . but if this be so , the scriptures , &c. are to resolve all points of faith. ergo , &c. what a prodigious minor have we here ? how doth it follow , that because god's word is to be more credited than superstitioas oracles ; or , that such oracles are not to be credited , when they speak against god's word : therefore the scriptures , &c. are to resolve all points of faith. i know you have not the word rather in your english translation as we have in ours , but the clear sense of the place bears as much . 1 tim. 6. 3. saith , they are proud that teach contrary to the doctrine of christ . ergo , you infer that the scripture is to judge whose doctrine is of pride . this is as mad a conclusion as the last ; for when there is no clear text of scripture for either side , as it often happens , or scripture brought on both sides ; how can the scripture judge whether party be proud ? or , how can it be judge of its own sense , when it is alledged on both sides , who both pretend to have the spirit and reason on their sides ? 1 john 4. 6. those that hear not the apostles , are not of god , nor have his spirit . ergo , say you , the scripture resolves who are religious : doth it follow out of this text , that when parties contend , that they hear the apostles , the scripture , can resolve the difference , and pronounce who are religious ? &c. not at all . 2 john 9. 10. gives judgement against those that follow not christ's doctrine . you infer ergo the scripture must try whether men bring this doctrine . strange logick : for unless your text proved that the scripture containes all christ's doctrine , which it doth not , your consequence must needs be faulty . 2 thess . 3. 2. you say proves , that reason is some wayes necessary to decide controversies in religion . i will not examine the goodness of this consequence , but i am sure you need not have brought scripture to have proved so manifest a truth , which cannot be denied by any , but such as pretend to have so much of the spirit , that me-thinks they should have little need of the use of reason . baptist . concerning my five texts , and what i infer thence , i need not speak much here ; yet it is worthy observing how apparantly you miss the clear sense of isa . 8. 20. whilst you restrain the relatives [ this word ] to the word or prophecy of isaiah , whereas it is as clear as the sun at noon , that they ought to be referr'd to the law and testimony ; for thus i read , to the law and to the testimony , if they speak not according to this word . having thus missed the sence of the text , then in all that you say further , you discover a taunting spirit , endeavouring to bespatter me with what dirt comes next to hand . i did not quote any one of the five texts , as taking it singly to prove the whole assertion ; and therefore you did injure my understanding , to argue from them apart , as brought to prove the whole position ; but i brought them to prove such propositions , as being laid together , do amount to so much as my assertion ( as i explicate it ) doth contain . for the first four texts do all of them shew , how god's people ought to try and defend themselves against such as oppose the church and truth of god , as i shewed in my rejoynder : and the fifth , gives reason her place in religious contests . but there is not one of the arguments which i formed from my five quotations , but you deprave and abuse it , by both adding terms of your own , and omitting mine ; yea , sometimes whole sentenoes : and when you have so done , you flout at the conclusions . which dealing is too bad for a sober disputant , it were a very easie thing to turn all your objections here against the scripture as insufficient to resolve differences in religion , upon the church as therefore insufficient to resolve them . for , whereas you say , that when both parties pretend to have scripture and reason on their sides , then the scripture cannot decide the controversie ; might not i as well say , when both parties pretend to have the church on their side ( as that 's the case between us ) the church then cannot decide our difference ? again , where you seem to say , that when both parties contending , do say they hear the apostles , that then the apostles cannot ( as they speak in the scriptures ) decide the controversie : hath not this the same force against the church , when both parties contend they hear the church ? see how you can defend your self , and i doubt not but therein you will defend my arguments for the scripture . and because you do cry up the fathers , &c. for so clear a way to decide all our controversies , i will therefore shew you , that they do clearly avouch the answer which i have given to this your first query , as will evidently appear to the impartial reader of the several quotations which i have before alledged , and which do here follow . the answer to the first query , avouched sufficient by the sentence of divers doctors , both antient and modern . vvhether of us be schismaticks ? ask not me , i will not ask you . let christ be asked , that he may shew us his church . neither must i alledge the nicene council ; nor you the arimi . i am neither bound to the one , nor you to the other ; let the matter be tryed by the scripture . augustine saith , let the scriptures judge ; let christ judge ; let the apostles judge . yea , it is confessed by the papists , that aug. optatus , and basil , summoned their adversaries to the arbitriment of holy scriptures , and did allow the sufficiency of holy scripture to decide the controversies depending between them . in time past , saith chrysostome , there were many wayes to know the church of christ ( viz. ) by good life , by miracles , by chastity , &c. but from the time that heresies did take hold of the church , it is only known by the scripture , which is the true church . again , he saith , the lord then knowing that so great confusion would come in the latter dayes , therefore willed the christians that would take to the sureness of true faith , to have refuge to nothing but to the scripture ; otherwise , saith he , if they regard other things they shall perish , not understanding what the true church is . [ thus my answer is avouched good , as it respects the means to decide the differences which are about the church . next , hear what they say touching such differences as are in the church . ] iren. if there be any disagreement risen up among christians concerning controversies in religion , what better course is there to be taken , than to have our recourse into the most antient churches , [ which must needs be those planted by the apostles , considering the time when he lived ] and to receive from thence , what shall be certain and manifest . augustine . because the scripture cannot deceive , whoso feareth to be misled in the obscurity of this question , let him ask counsel of that church which the scripture , without any ambiguity pointeth out . constantine mag. there are the gospel , the prophets and apostles , which do teach us what to hold in religion ; wherefore expelling all hostile and bitter contention , let us seek the solution of these questions out of the scriptures . thus spake this famous emperor in the council of nice , at what time the bishops had like to have jarred into pieces . thus have i given an impartial relation of what hath passed between the popish querist and my self , in our two last papers , ( which contains the sum of what passed in the other ) as touching this question about the judge of controversies . and now , for further satisfaction , that the scripture , as aforesaid , ought to be admitted the high prerogative of judge in our debates ; consider , that of necessity it must be so . my reason is , because either the scripture , or some other writings , must be our judge , especially in this important question , which is the true church ? for when we contend about her , it is very unreasonable , that any party contending for that title , should be permitted to give judgment in their own cause : as for example , the present assembly of papists say , that they are the true church : and the present assemblies of baptists say , that they are the true church . is it fit that either party contending , should here give judgment decissive ? what then must we do ? why of necessity we must to some writings , whereby to be decided or agreed in this controversie . these writings must be either the scriptures , or some other ; but no other can compare with those , so that they do deserve this prerogative better than any other . the papists ordinary way in this difficulty , is to tell us , that we must here be tryed by the tradition of our fore-fathers ; in which they say , we cannot be deceived : which tradition , they say , is the only thing that is unquestionable , and needs no other ground to stand upon , but it self . and against the scripture's being received , upon its own evidence or authority , they usually do thus object , that before we can receive what it teacheth , we must be assured of its truth . and again , they say , the scripture may not be the judge of controversie , because it may be corrupted , translated , ill interpreted , not rightly understood . and by these , and other like objections , they usually in all their writings , invalidate the scriptures certainty , authority , and sufficiency , that so they advance the authority of their traditions . but let it be seriously considered , whether these objections have not the same force against what they rest upon , which they have against the holy scripture ? first then , whereas they tell us , the scripture cannot teach us any thing , till we be assured of its truth : doth not this conclude against any other thing as strongly ? ought we not to be assured of the truth of the church before we receive her documents ? ought we not to be assured of the truth of that tradition which we receive for the rule of our faith ? but how must we be assured of the truth of the papal church , and tradition ? there is not a man living , that can remember when either began , and so avouch its beginning to be of divine institution , and the continnance of the same ever since its beginning , to have been without any corruption : what then must we do ? why we must search romes records . and then i ask , are they not as questonable , and liable to mis-interpretations , as easily mis-understood as the records of god ? what is now become of these objections , the force whereof is evidently against the papal church and her traditions , of the truth whereof we must be assured before we can be taught by either of them . i say again , there is not a man of all the papists that can evidence rome to have been a church two hundred years ago , and then much less one thousand six hundred years ago . so that of necessity we must to the writings of some men ( whom we never saw write one word ) to find the church . and then i would know why we may not make enquiry at the pen of paul , what the church was at first , and what it ought to be now , as well as at the pen of augustine . cannot the pen of peter the apostle give us as good information in this matter , as the pen of any pope , pretending to be his successor ? if the papists answer , that we know not the pen of peter or paul : we answer , as well as they know the pen of augustine or gregory . if they say paul's writings may be corrupted , and must be interpreted , may be mis-understood . i return the same answer of all other books whatsoever ; yea , those which contains romes tradition . see therefore what is gained by devising objections against the authority or certainty of the holy scriptures . such doings do only tend to the destruction of all faith , making every thing doubtful , and the effect is the ushering in of all uncleanness on the one hand , or if men miss this snare , they are catched in another , viz. to walk at random as their own , or other mens fancy leads them . this is evident by what we have seen in the ranters on the one hand , and the papists and quakers on the other . let us trace this matter a little further , thus . the papists traditions ( most , if not all of which , have been committed to writing several hundreds of years ago ) must speak for themselves , are unquestionable of themselves , must challenge no ground but themselves to stand upon : but the sacred scripture which hath especial promise from god for its preservation , psal . 12. must have none of these high priviledges allowed it ; is not this a most peccant assertion ? again , peter and paul must be no judges of controversies in religion , as they speak to us in their epistles ; but the popes of rome , dead long ago , and now only speak in their writings , yet they must be our infallible judges in these controversies . the great council of apostles , elders , and brethren , acts 15. can be no judge of any controversie , though their decrees are yet extant among us ; but the council of trent , who only speak in their decrees , must be our judge , and that so as from their judgments no appeal can be admitted . the apostolical council sends forth their decrees in the name of the holy ghost , and themselves ; and in those their decrees , they prohibit the eating of blood , and strangled things , &c. but the papal councils will send forth a decree directly opposite to this , and yet sign'd with these powerful words ; visum est spiritui sancto & nobis . if we appeal in this matter to the apostolical council , they may not be permitted to pronounce a sentence decissive . but from the sentence of the papal council we must in no wise appeal . can any thing be said more unworthily ? thus then , first , the godly reader may perceive , that whether he be able to answer all the cunning objections that men , by reason of the long experience they have had in the wayes of deceit , have found out ; yet he hath an argument of necessity wherewith to oppose their subtilty . and , secondly , he hath the advantage of all their own objections , against themselves ; yea , against their church , tradition , and all that they stand upon . being seasonably retorted upon them . wherefore i shall conclude with the psalmist's words , psal . 64. 5 , 6 , 7 , 8 , 9. they encourage themselves in an evil matter : they commune of laying snares privily ; they say , who shall see them ? they search out iniquities , they accomplish a diligent search : both the inward thoughts of every one of them , and the heart is deep . but god shall shoot at them with an arrow , suddenly shall they be wounded . so they shall make their own tongues to fall upon themselves : all that see them , shall flee away . and all men shall fear , and shall declare the work of god : for they shall wisely consider of his doings . the second part , sheweth , that the present papal church of rome , is not the church of christ , for divers important causes or reasons . vve have heard of how dangerous a consequence that papal opinion is , which leads them to set up their own authority ( under pretence of their being the church ) above the holy scripture ; insomuch as they allow it no authority , till it be delivered to us for god's word , by their church ; so that by this doctrine , we must find their church , before we can find the word of god , as it is contained in the scripture . upon which consideration , we shall endeavour to shew , that the present papal church , is not the true church of christ ; and therefore what power soever the church hath , yet they cannot have it ; because they are not the church of christ . the first reason . the present papal church of rome , cannot possibly prove her self to be the church of christ : therefore she is not the church of christ . the first reason maintained . the consequence of the argument no understanding man can deny ; for unless a party pretending to be the church of christ , can some wayes sufficiently prove that they are his church , they cannot reasonably blame any body that refuses so to account of them . and for the antecedent , namely , that it is impossible for the present papal church to prove her self the church of christ , it is evident from this ground , viz. they make both the scripture , and all other writings , depend on their church for their authority ; and therefore they must prove themselves to be the church without the help of any authentical or authoritative writings ; which thing is impossible for them to do . being thus divested of the help of all records , as is more fully shewed above , there remains now nothing for them to lean upon but their own evidence , or the tradition of their fore-fathers ; not that which is contained in any records , but only that which hath been delivered by word from man to man , &c. but alas ! what tradition is this they speak of ? not the tradition of the church to us , till the persons delivering the same , be found to be the church ; which , as before , they cannot be found to be , without the scripture . and for their own evidence , that may not prove them to be the church to those that contend with them ; it cannot avail them , sith each party contending in this case , will , and may , as reasonably as the papists , look that their own testimony should be as available for these , as the other for those . it is as vain here to tell us , they are the church , because the true marks of the church do agree to the papal church , and none else . for , first , the true marks of the church are confessed by the papists , to be found in the scripture ; which scripture they receive not , but from the authority of their church ( yea , their present church ) so that till the scripture can tell us authoritatively which be the marks of the church , no church can be found by those marks ; nor can the scripture tell us of those marks authoritatively , till rome , as a church , give it us for god's word : so then rome must be found the church , before there be any marks to find her by ; which is impossible . as for example : to clear this matter further , the papists say , that holiness is a mark of the true church : but now set the holy scripture aside , and how shall i know holiness from unholiness , without the scripture ? here the papists being in a strait , rather than they will let the law of god , or the scripture , have the preheminence , do answer thus ; that we have a law in our consciences , which dictates what is good , and what is otherwise ; and by this law , even a heathen may judge our church holier than any other congregations of christians . what a miserable plunge ( of heathenism or quakerism ) are they brought to here ? how do they know that a heathen may , by the law of conscience , judge their church to be more holy than any other congregation of christians ? were they ever heathens to know this ? but alas ! what holiness can a heathen judge of ? surely not that which is an infallible mark of the true church ; for this spiritual matter is foolishness to the natural man , nor can he know it , because 't is spiritually discerned . it is true , there is a holiness discernable by the law of our consciences . but this only , is not an infallible mark , that any society is the church of christ ; nor did ever any man ( i am perswaded ) hold forth such a doctrine , that was a faithful minister of the new testament , or spirit . again , what of this kind of holiness , whereof a heathen ( as such ) can judge , is there found among the papists , which may not be found among the baptists ? yea , among those that are opposite to both , as the quakers , and others ; yea , among the very jews and turks may be found as much of this kind of holiness as among the papists , if any credit may be given to histories . sometimes the papists do object the * creed as sufficient , to demonstrate a man to be a member of the church , though he know not whether there be any scripture . but i answer , how shall this be proved to be the creed ? it must not be its own evidence ; for then the scripture may as well speak for it self , which the papists will not allow ; nor can the church of rome confer any authority upon the creed , till they be found to be the church : so then this is the conclusion , rome must be found to be the church , before there be a creed . i do therefore humbly desire these few observations may be seriously thought upon by all sober men , but especially the papists , that so men may give to the holy scriptures , that which is proper to them ; that is , that they may speak , without controul , both for themselves , and every thing else of a religious consideration ; or else all volumns of the antients , and societies of men , pretending to christianity ( as things stand in our dayes ) must depart into utter silence . the second reason . the present papal church of rome , hath no baptism : therefore she is not the church of christ . the second reason maintained . by the word baptism in the argument , i mean only the baptism of water in the name of the father , &c. or , which is all one , the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins . now that the present papal church of rome hath not this baptism , is evident by this argument , taken from their own confession , viz. the baptism of the true church is found in the scripture . but the baptism of the present papal church of rome is not grounded upon , nor mentioned in the scripture . therefore the present papal church of rome hath no baptism . the first proposition is most clear , from matth. 28. 19 , 20. act. 2. act. 8. act. 9. act. 16. act. 18. act. 19. act. 22. 16. rom. 6. gal. 3. 27. col. 2. 11 , 12. heb. 6. 1 , 2. 1 pet. 3. 21. and , that the papists baptism is not found in the scripture , i prove thus . because they themselves do confess , that infant baptism is not mentioned in the scripture , nor grounded upon the scripture , nor any scripture for it . see to this purpose , the works of bellarmine ; and a book , entituled , an antidote , written by s. n. a popish doctor ; as also t. b. his end to controversie . in which books you will find the very words which i have repeated . adde hereunto the answer which i received from the author of the seven queries , when i asked him what controversies in religion he could resolve without the written word of god ? he assigned infant baptism , as one that was so to be resolved . so then , we have it pro confesso from the papists own mouths , that their baptism ( which is infant baptism ) is a scriptureless-baptism : therefore say i , it is no baptism . no baptism , i say ; because the church hath but one baptism of water , and it is mentioned in the scripture , and grounded upon it , and much scripture found for it ; so is not infant baptism , which is the baptism of the present papal church . therefore the papal baptism , is no baptism . how can they defend themselves ? will they say , the church hath a scripture-baptism , and an unwritten baptism ? this they must say and prove , or else deny their infant baptism . but , secondly , the present papal church is so adulterated in the manner of the administration of baptism , as that , had they a true subject for baptism , yet , they would be found to have no baptism . this will appear as clear as the light , from the papists own confession ; for they grant , that the antient and primitive way of baptizing , was , by dipping the party baptized , over the head and ears in water ; and that it was their church which changed this way , to a little sprinkling upon the forehead . this is plainly to be seen in a book , entituled , certamen religiosum . this bold change , which men , without any allowance from god , have made in this ministration of baptism , is directly against the scripture . mat. 3. 16. mark 15. 9. john 3. 23. act. 8. 38 , 39. rom. 6. in all which places it's evident , that our lord jesus , john baptist , and the other baptists of those times , did so understand the mind of god in respect of the manner of the administration of baptism , as that they thought it could not be done without so much water as they might go into ( both the person baptizing , and the person to be baptized ) and now , do not all that will presume to satisfie themselves in this thing with a few drops of water put on the face only , from a man's fingers ends , or out of a glass in the midwifes pocket , lay great folly and ignorance to the charge of christ and his primitive followers ? doubtless such , as is not less than the folly of that man , that hath occasion only for one gill of water , and he may take it up at the side of the brook , and yet will needs wade into the middle of a river to take it up ; or a man that hath occasion to wash his hands only , which he may perform very commodiously without wetting his foot , and yet is so simple that he will needs go into the middle of the river to that purpose , especially such a river where there is much water . i say , the practice of sprinkling which the papists and others use , if that answer the mind of god in the case of baptism , doth even thus reflect upon christ and the christians in those dayes . but let our saviours practice herein be justified , and all such practices as tend to the rendring it ridiculous , condemned . the papists only reserve for the defence of infant baptism , is this : they say it is an apostolical tradition , that is , a precept delivered by the apostles word , but not mentioned in their writings . this i shall shew to be utterly false , for divers important reasons . first , no apostolical tradition , tends to the making null or void any apostolical writing . but infant sprinkling makes null and void all that is written in the scriptures , concerning the subject and manner of baptism , in all that part of the world where the papists ( or such as they ) get the civil power on their side : yea , we see that by this means the sons of men are great enemies to the way of god in this matter . how long have many nations lain destitute of the knowledge of the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins , by reason of the interposition of this cloudy tradition of pedo-rantism ? how have men , pretending to be ministers of christ , never , in many generations , preached peter's doctrine , repent , and be baptized , every one of you , for the remission of sins ? note this observation well ; for although the baptism of repentance , &c. hath not been cryed down in the nations of christendom , ( by such as counted themselves the only preachers of the gospel ) yet it was not for that these nations had no need of the practice of baptism ; for they daily have practised something under that notion , which is rheir infant-sprinkling ; so that it 's plain , infant-baptism makes void the apostolical writings : therefore infant-baptism is no apostolical tradition . secondly , infant-baptism is not an apostolical tradition , because no mention is made of it in the first hundred of years after christ . although i am not much read , yet i have used the utmost of my diligence to know the truth in this point , and i have attained to sufficient satisfaction , that the greatest favourer of infant-baptism that yet i have met with , durst not say that ever he saw any record of antiquity that mentioned such a thing , and that the scriptures do not mention it , the papists grant . and because the papists make such boast of the consent which they have in this matter from antiquity , i will therefore here put in something by way of evidence to the contrary . for it is certain that infant baptism , as it was not heard of in the first hundred , so neither was it generally received till above half a thousand years revolved from christ , as is undeniable ; for that it is plain , that the most famous ( or at least , very famous ) christian parents brought up their children without having them baptized ; such were the parents of greg. nazianzen , ambrose , augustine , and others ; yea , the emperour constantius , born of christian parents , was not baptized till he was about thirty years of age * . see also these ensuing testimonies . i will declare unto you , how we offer up our selves unto god in baptism . after that we are renewed through christ , such as are instructed in the faith , and believe that which we teach them , being to live according to the same ; we admonish to fast and pray , and we fast and pray with them ; then they are brought to the water , and there calling on the name of the father , &c. they are washed in it . so saith erasmus , paraphrase on matth. 28. if they believe that which you teach them , and begin to be repentant of their former life , then dip them in water , in the name , &c. the lord commanded his apostles , that they should first instruct all nations , and afterward baptise those that were instructed : for it cannot be that the body should receive the sacrament of baptism , unless the soul have received before the true faith. our saviour did not slightly command to baptize , but first of all he said , teach , and then baptize , that true faith might come by teaching , and baptism be perfected by faith. haimo saith , in this place ( matth. 28. ) is set down a rule rightly how to baptize , that is , that teaching should go before baptism : for , he saith , teach all nations , ( and then he saith ) and baptize them : for , he that is to be baptized , must be before instructed , that he first learn to believe , that which in baptism he shall receive : for , as faith without works is dead ; so works , if they have no faith , are nothing worth . beda saith , all they that came to the apostles to be baptized , were instructed of them , and when they were instructed concerning the sacrament of baptism , they received the holy administration thereof . tertullian , who lived about the time when infant-baptism began to appear , did dispute against it , as an unnecessary practice , for divers causes . 1. for that it is not meet to commit heavenly things , to those who are not capable of keeping treasure of an earthly nature . 2. for that the sponsors might be endangered . 3. for that it became them that were to be baptized , to fast , pray , and confess their sins . 4. because they that receive christ , must ask him ; let them ( that is , little ones ) come therefore , saith he , while they are youths , whilst wherein they come , they are taught , &c. augustine saith , we spend much time in exhorting those whom we baptize — ludovicus vives , commenting upon this place , saith , lest any man should mistake this place of augustine , let him know that in old time it was the custom to baptize none , except they were of full age , and did desire baptism in their own persons , and that several times , and did understand what that mystical water meant , which we see resembled in our baptizing of infants . [ lo here your pedo-baptism is not the old custom of the church . ] the third reason . the present papal church of rome , is a national church : therefore she is not the church of christ . the third reason maintained . 1. to make the gospel-church national , consequently destroyes the doctrin of conversion , as it is a principle of the doctrin of christ appertaining to the beginning of a christian man : for , if men can regenerate , or beget persons to god in their infancy , then the word of regeneration or new-birth is needless in order to our admission into the church of christ , and so the preaching of faith and repentance must cease ( as it is a principle pertaining to a christian man ) in all those nations which are called christendom , which is a great part of the world. and indeed , experience hath long ago proved this conclusion to be most true ; for since the church ( as they term it ) was national , the word , or work of conversion , hath been little known in the life and power of it : nay , verily , the very term [ conversion ] is become a reproach among our national-churchmembers . but thus to make the word of conversion unnecessary , in order to persons admission into the church of christ , is contrary to the scripture , john 3. 5. luke 24. 47. matth. 20. 19. 2 cor. 5. 16 , 17. heb. 8. 10 , 11. gal. 3. 26 , 27 , 28. matth. 3. 8 , 9 , 10. 2. to make the gospel-church national , puts an end to the doctrine of christ touching that separation , and those divisions , which for the gospel-sake must be in nations and families , as appears from these scriptures ; john 15. 19. and 17. 14 , 16. acts 2. 40 , 47. 1 cor. 6. luke 12. 49 , to 54. and therefore in vain doth any person think to do god service , by compelling families , towns , countries , nations , or many nations , to be of one mind in matters of religion . i say , it is in vain , because the scripture foresees , and also foreshews , that the contrary effects must follow the preaching of the gospel ; and yet they may , yea , and ought to live in one form of civil government : for that is the will of god concerning every soul , rom. 13. 1 , to 8. 3. the gospel-church cannot be national ; because that takes away from her , persecution for the gospel-sake , & makes her become a persecutor : for it is impossible for a church to be national without penal laws , whereby to force men to that kind of worship which the greater part approveth , which may as possibly be false as true . but the true church must not look to be free from persecution , if she live godly in christ jesus ; nor is any thing more † uncomly for her than to punish or persecute men into a conformity to her faith or religious practice , john 15. 19 , 20. mat. 10. 22. 2 tim. 3. 12. luke 9. 56. and the greatest part of the revelations do shew , that the church was to be in a suffering condition , and are therefore bid to be patient , until the coming of the lord , jam. 5. 4. a national-church cannot observe the discipline of the church of christ ; for , in the case of withdrawing from disorderly persons , they do not only separate men of disorder from the church , both in civil and religious concerns , but they cast them wholly out of the world , from all markets and fairs , yea , quite out of their livelihoods , &c. which kind of excommunication the scripture foresees to be proper to the churches adversary , rev. 13. 16 , 17. 5. if the gospel-church ought to be national , then she was imperfect in point of power in the apostles dayes : for she had not then any power to put hereticks to death for their heresie . but to say , that the primitive church wanted any power to punish any sin , as it concerns the church to punish it , is to disparage the apostolical churches , and is also contrary to the scriptures , which plainly shew they had power then to revenge all disobedience , 2 cor. 10. 4 , 5 , 6. the fourth reason . the papal church encreaseth her self more by the carnal sword , than by the spiritual word : therefore she is not the church of christ . the fourth reason maintained . that such churches as are national , do most encrease their numbers , and keep them also when they have them , by the terror of death and penal laws , both experience shews , and reason tels that it cannot be otherwise . how often hath our nation changed their religion , with the breath of a prince ? sometime to popery , and otherwhiles to protestancy , and under o. cromwel to a compound of half presbytery and half independency , according to the temper of those that sat at the stern of affairs ? and now , how are they turn'd again to prelacy ? of which last change , i say , if any have conformed , as judging it their duty to god so to do , those ( though this doth not justifie their way to be good , yet ) are honest men : but if any for self-interest have done it , they are the very dregs of men , and will be any thing , and so nothing . 2. i remember a notable saying of hillary , who lived about the 4th or 5th hundred , and in his dayes the church was a degenerating from her regeneral constitution into a national form , where he saith , ambition doth aid it self by the name of christ ; the church doth fear and compel the people through banishments and imprisonment , to believe her in those things , which she had received through being imprisoned — she that could not be beloved of christ if the world had not hated her , now glorieth to be extolled and beloved of the world , &c. and that the papal church hath ordinarily encreased her self more by terror of the carnal sword than the word of god , doleful histories do declare ; namely these , sleidan comment . a book entituled , the indians tears , or , inquisition for blood : as also , fox his acts and monuments . and here i think it meet to give an instance from one of their own historiagraphers , namely fabinus . he tells us that after austin the monk had gotten a considerable settlement in england , it happened that there was a council assembled in this nation , where austin proposed several things , to which the other bishops could not consent ; but , by your leave , when austin could not prevail by the word ( or rather , his words ) he told them , if they would not submit , they should be compelled , by the wasting that should be made in their country through war and misery . this was not paul's way , 2 cor. 5. 20. the fifth reason . the present papal church of rome , labours to keep the world in darkness , and the church also : therefore she is not the church of christ . the fifth reason maintained . the consequence of this argument no man can deny ; for there is nothing more opposit to the true church , than to love , or cause darkness to seize upon any . and that the present papal church of rome labours to keep all men in darkness , is thus proved . 1. she forbids almost all men to reade the scriptures , and thereupon hath greatly withstood the translation of them into every tongue , as is evident , partly from what history declares , and partly from that which themselves do say . to omit history , hear what they say themselves . in their preface to the reader in the rhemist testament , thus they speak : order was taken by the deputies of the late famous council of trent in this behalf , and confirmed by supream authority , that the scripture , though truly translated into the vulgar tongues , yet may not be indifferently read of all men , nor of any other than such as have express order thereunto of their lawful ordinaries . so that we see the liberty here given , is unlike the liberty given by christ to his enemies , whom he commanded to search the scripture , john 5. 39. and the rich glutton's friends are said to have the prophets and moses , luk. 16. 29. israel was of old indifinitly required to lay up the book of the law in their heart ; to talk of it as they sate in their houses ; as they went abroad ; they must teach them to their children , and write them upon the posts of their doors , deut. 6. 4 , to 9. notwithstanding all this and much more liberty given by the lord both to his enemies and friends , to reade his word , you see the council of trent will have none permitted , but whom the ordinaries permit , to reade the scripture , and they are only such as they judge discreet , &c. pref. rhem. test . is it not strange that men , pretending to be christ's true followers , should thus contradict him ? he allowed that to his enemies , which they will not allow to his friends . sure they have neither heard his voice , nor seen his shape , or , at least , not learned of him . miserable is the gospel-church by the council of trents doctrine , they have not that priviledge which israel under the law was allowed ; and yet they are as strictly bound to bring up their children in the admonition of the lord ; which they cannot do , unless they have the law in their heart , that so they may talk of it to their children . but surely , those that will not let the law come within the sight of our eyes , have no mind it should ever come in our hearts : so then they labour to keep us in the dark . what can they say against mens reading the scripture , which hath not the same force against the hearing of it preached ? did not some conceive as gross opinions concerning christ's saying , men must eat his flesh , as some have by reading them ? the jews thought they were so to be understood , as that they might eat his real flesh ; and that was not a greater nor a lesse error , than is found in the papists , who read the same word . it is doubtless a shrewd sign that those who will not suffer us to see the law of god , do not intend that we shall hear very much of it ; peradventure such points as talk of tythes , &c. yea , it is evident , that they intend not to let us hear much that shall profit us ; for they have devised , that the very prayers and services of their church , be said and sung in a tongue which the people understand not . yea , they tell us , that it is enough for the people to understand that the prayer is made to call upon god in all our desires ; and more than this is not necessary ( they say : ) so that the poor people in the papacy , know not what are the things desired ; only they are told , the prayer is made to god in all that is therein desired . are not these people kept in darkness ? but saith paul , how should the unlearned say , amen ? 1 cor. 14. that which is most strange , is , that the papists should deliver this dark doctrine , from 1 cor. 14. then which no scripture more requireth an understanding in those that pray , and in those that joyn with them ; nor doth any scripture more clearly shew us , to how little purpose it is to perform any service in the church in an unknown tongue . read the chapter ; saith paul , if i come unto you speaking with tongues , what shall i profit you ? — but in the church i will speak five words with my understanding , that i may instruct others also , rather than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue . these are paul's words , as the papists themselves translate them . another way whereby they keep men in darkness is this , they cumber mens minds with such a multitude of ceremonies , and repetitions in their prayers , that the mind is sufficiently charged to remember how many times over they must say some two or three words ; nay , it 's evident this is no wrong , witness their beads which serve to supply the defect of their memories . as i remember , there is not less than fifty orations and postulations , &c. which the priest is to make , and act , before the bread be consecrated when they say mass ; and the like doings they have in the most of their services , which i can more desire the lord would deliver them from , than mention . the sixth reason . the present papal church , is generally ( if not only at this day ) gathered of persons unregenerate , or not new born , as the scriptures do require new-birth in that case : therefore she is not the church of christ . the sixth reason maintained . 1. the scripture saith , that except a man ( or any one ) be born again ( so ) as to be like the winde that bloweth , and that bloweth in such sort , as the sound thereof is heard , he cannot enter into the kingdom ( or church ) of god : but the many millions of infants , whereof the papal church consists mostly ( if not only ) in respect of her members initiation , are not thus regenerate . so that the papal church is gathered ( generally ) of such persons as are not so regenerate , as persons ought to be , and must of necessity be , before they be admitted into the church of christ . the seed of the woman ( or gospel-church ) are all such as have the faith of jesus , and keep the commandments of god , at least in profession ; for that is the thing that is absolutely necessary , in order to any person 's admission into the church of christ , john 3. 5 , 6. 2 cor. 5. 16 , 17. rev. 12. ult . gal. 3. 26 , 27 , 28. 2. all the children of the new covenant , or church of christ , do differ from the church under moses , so , as that they , each individual , do so know the lord , as that they need not , in some sort , teach one another , saying , know the lord , heb. 8. jer. 31. but either all , or the generality of the papal church , differ nothing from the church under moses , in respect of their knowledge , when admitted into their church , being such as are not capable of the first , or least degree of the knowledge of him . 3. there appears no more sign of regeneration , or new-birth , in the infants , or members of the papal church , at their admission , than there appears in such as the papists say are not regenerate . now where the spirit of regeneration is , it is not without some demonstrable operation ; for saith christ , the wind bloweth , &c. and thou hearest the sound thereof , &c. so is every one that is born of the spirit . so that i conclude , that the infants whom the papists say they baptize , are not born of the spirit , unless they can give some demonstrative sign of it . 4. there can be no regeneration in an ordinary way , without preaching the doctrine of christ , rom. 10. but the papal church is generally ( if not only ) gathered without the word preached , in order to the regeneration of the members , before their admission . therefore they are not regenerate in an ordinary way . and if they have an extraordinary regeneration , let them shew it . the seventh reason . the present papal church of rome , maintaineth the doctrine of devils , and that so violently , as that they punish the non-observation thereof with excommunication and death : therefore she is not the church of christ . this argument maintained . this reason , or argument , may seem to be harshly laid down ; yet if it be true , there is necessity to propound it . and for the truth of it , i desire you weigh what followeth . 1. to forbid marriage , and to command to abstain from meats which god hath created to be received , of such as believe and obey the truth ; this is the doctrine of devils . but it is well known that the papists do forbid the whole calling of their clergy to marry , and thousands beside of those that live in their monasteries and nunries , &c. and this under pain of cursing and death . you shall hear them speak their own words , wherein they do not only prohibit marriage for ever to such as enter into the ministry ; but if any be married , and afterwards come into the ministry , they wholly deprive such of the enjoyment of their yoke-fellows . thus they speak ; the cause why the church requireth chastity in the clergie , and forbiddeth not only fornication , but all carnal copulation , even in lawful wedlock , is to the end , that god's priests be not divided from him by the clogs of marriage , but be clean and pure from all the fleshly acts of copulation : and this doctrine they teach from 1 cor. 7. where if you reade the 4 , 5 , 6 , 7. verses , you may easily learn the quite contrary doctrine . again , they teach from 1 tim. 3. 2. that none shall marry that come into holy orders . and , that if any of the clergie , in other countries , had been permitted , in times past , to enjoy their wives , yet they now declare it to be against the apostles rule ; and this they say is the sentence of the council of nice . but surely paul's words are clear contrary ; for he saith , a bishop must be the husband of one wife , having his children in subjection , &c. in further proof of this matter , it is upon record , that greg. 7. an. 1070. did enforce ministers by excommunication , to leave their wives . and vrban 2. anno. 1066. decreed , that it might be lawful to make the ministers wives bond-women . and fox recordeth , that it was made felony , by the act of the six articles , for ministers to marry wives , fox , p. 1135. and this cruelty bellarmine defends by a saying of jerome , that a bishop begetting children , shall be condemned as an adulterer . now whereas i say they forbid meats , &c. i do not mean , that it is not meet for the church to fast and pray , and in such a sense to forbid meat . but for their church to forbid one kind of meat above another ; as that we may not eat eggs in lent , and divers other creatures which god hath created , to be received of such as believe . for the true way of fasting , is a total fasting for the time ( unless necessity deny . ) and truly the papal fast of lent is in a manner no fast , which allows the drinking of wines , and the eating to the full of such delicacies as do inflame the flesh as much as eggs , &c. which yet the papists by no means will permit men to eat . for my author tells me , that they make the eating of eggs in lent , a damnable sin . fox , p. 1043. i might fill much paper about their forbidding meats . but to proceed : the eighth reason . the present papal church of rome , is mystery babylon : therefore she is not the church of christ . the eighth reason maintained . 1. i know , that generally all that dissent from rome , do account her as in her present state to be mystery babylon ; and truly for my part , i have considered of this matter , and i find it is so clearly meant of rome , that even the papists do not wholly exempt her from this name . yet they deny that rome , as now considered , is mystery babylon ; only , say they , it is to be referred to rome in her heathenish estate . but thus i reason ; 2. if the present papal church of rome be not mystery babylon , then either the papists , or some body else , can shew us a people which better deserves that title . but this no man can do ( so far as yet i have learned ) and therefore ( as yet ) i must say , the present papal church of rome ( together with her daughter churches ) is mystery babylon . and for further proof in this point , i thus reason : 3. the present papal church hath the marks of mystery babylon ; therefore she is mystery babylon . i prove it thus : one mark of mystery babylon , is a regiment over the kings of the earth , rev. 17. the woman which thou sawest , is that great city which reigneth over the kings of the earth . this mark the present papal church of rome hath above all other ; witness the papists own books , t. b. end to controv. chap. 26 , 27. where he sets up the pope above all kings and emperors ; and plainly calls the popes , kings and monarchs ; and the papal church , he terms an invincible empress , &c. another mark of mystery babylon , is great riches and wordly pomp. that rome , in her present church-state , hath this mark , her doctor , t. b. is my witness . so is helen . geog. p. 192 , 193. and napier , rev. 9. which authors shew her riches ( even of the clergy only ) to be quite out of the reach of the best arithmaticks to pass an entrado upon it . add to all other witnesses that of expeperience , and it will shew us , that when their church had her domination in this land , they knew where the best ground lay ; as the ruins of their abbeys do evince . compare all these with rev. 18. and see if they do not agree . another mark of mystery babylon is , she sits upon nations , tongues , and peoples . rome hath this mark ; t. b. in his end to controversies , chap. 26 , 27. another mark of mystery babylon is , she enslaves the souls of men , and is drunk with blood . now that the papal church of rome hath this mark , i need only to refer my readers to those large histories of sleidan , fox , and benzo the italian . lastly , as i noted , it is confessed by the papists , that mystery babylon , rev. 17. & 18. chapters , is meant of rome ; only they think to free themselves from the force of that blow , by telling us , that it 's meant of rome in her heathenism , and under the persecuting emperors . but this is but a poor shift , as may appear , by shewing , that the antients do write against rome , as mystery babylon , after the persecuting emperors were down ; for the papists say , that constatine put an end to the persecution , when he was converted , which was about the year 300 , and a few odd years ; at which time the papists say , that rome was given up to the pope . 1. jeroms , who lived about the fourth hundred , writing to eustoch . & marcelus , doth apply these words to rome , viz. fly out of babylon , let every man save his own soul , for babylon is fallen , and is become the habitation of devils . yea , he saith further , as he is quoted by the protestants , that rome is the babylonical harlot , according to the revelation of st. john , appointed for the birth of antichrist , which there should arise , and exercise all tyranny ; and from thence should deceive the whole world with his wicked wiles . and augustine is most clear in this matter , in his book of the city of god ; where he calls rome another babylon in the west . and babylon in the east , first rome : and rome of italy , second babylon . willing men to consider , that in the beginning of the city of god , which was in abraham's time , the first rome , that was , eastern babylon was builded in chaldea . and about what the first babylon was destroyed , lest the city of god should want her enemy , the second babylon , which is rome in italy , was erected . chrysostome saith , antichrist shall invade the vacant empire of rome , and assay to draw unto himself the empires both of god and man. thus it seems that rome was accounted mystery babylon , four or five hundred years after christ ; and if she be not now , what she was then in that respect , i desire to be informed where that blood-drunken fornicatrix , mentioned , revelation 17. is now to be found . the ninth reason . the present papal church hath not those marks , which they themselves assign as the marks by which the true church can only be known infallibly : therefore the present papal church of rome , is not the church of christ . those marks are ; 1. antiquity . 2. succession . 3. vniversality ( of time and place . 4. visability . 5. sanctity . 6. vnity . 7. miracles , &c. these are the principal . the ninth reason maintained . that the present papal church cannot have the true mark of antiquity , is thus evidenced ; viz. the papal church is a national church ; but no gospel church was national in the first age : therefore no national church hath the true mark of antiquity . the strength of this argument lyeth in the clear difference of the state of the church under abraham and moses , to what it was under christ and his apostles . for , the jewish church , which was to be national , took its form in a national way , even in the very first family where it began , as appears , gen. 17. where parents , children , and servants too , must all be brought into that church-state forthwith , or not be suffered to co-habit together . which order must be kept in all the families of the jews , as well in respect of their servants , such as they bought with money , as their children , or any other . and so the jewish church , both in its beginning and its continuance , acted forth it self in a way suitable to it self . but when the gospel church began , it is very evident , that it took its beginning in the division of families , and that by vertue of christ's doctrine ; who affirms , that he came to send fire on the earth ; not peace , but rather division : for saith he , from henceforth there shall be fix●● in one house divided three against two , and two against three ; the father against the son , and the son against the father ; the daughter against the mother , and the mother against the daughter , &c. and all this for the gospel sake . here a man must leave father , mother , wife and children ; for this cause ye shall be betrayed , both by parents and kinsfolks . for this cause the unbelieving husband will put away his believing wife . and for this cause the servant may refuse to follow his unbelieving master , being christ's freeman , and yet dwell in his service as a servant notwithstanding . thus it 's evident , that the gospel-church took its beginning in a way quite contrary to the form of a national church , even by turning the world ( or church of the jews ) up-side down , which caused the jews to cry out , men of israel , help . this is yet more evident , by that thundring doctrine of the baptist , when he said , think not , or begin not to say within your selves , we have abraham to our father . no , saith paul , we ( meaning the gospel-church ) which are of faith , are the seed of abraham , and heirs according to promise ; for the promise ( which chiefly ) is enjoyed in the gospel , was not made to such as were born after the flesh , but such as are born after the spirit ; whereupon he saith , we henceforth know no man after the flesh [ or because he descends from the loins of abraham , or any other . ] for if any man be in christ ( so as to be a demonstrable or visible member of his gospel-church ) he is a new-creature . old things are passed away , [ yea , the old priviledge of standing in the church by the father's interest , though the seed of abraham himself ] is [ now ] passed , behold all things [ in this respect ] are become new . whereupon peter contributeth his sentence , and saith , of a truth i perceive god is no respecter of persons , [ but the persons accepted upon a gospel-account , so as to be his church , are such as in every nation fear him , and work righteousness [ which no infant can do . ] but what ? hath god rejected infants wholly , that now he will not shew them so much favour as afore-time ? god forbid . he hath not shut up his tender mercies from them wholly , or in part ; for as they are such , and dying in their infancy through adam's transgression , so in christ shall they be made alive . wherefore look how far soever they fall in the first man of the earth , so far they shall be restored by the lord from heaven ; yea , the gift to them by christ shall exceed the loss they had by adam . but if they live to years of understanding , and become actual sinners against god , then the way appointed for the remission of their sins , is , to repent , and be baptized , every one of them , that they may receive the holy ghost , and so be by it led into all truth ; and attain at the end the salvation of their souls , through jesus christ our lord. another argument whereby it appears the church of christ cannot be national , is this ; no man is bound to become a christian under pain of corporal punishment , as death , &c. but living peaceably as men , no man hath power to compel them to be baptized , or to walk in the christian profession , as is clear from the texts before recited . now take away force in matters of religion , and a national church cannot stand in an absolute national form ; this all experience can testifie . again , that the church of christ at the first , or in the first ages was not national ( in the first method or way wherein a church beginneth to be so , namely , by the admission of infants into the church ) is very evident ; because it is utterly incredible , that the many thousands of infants , of such as in those dayes believed , should be admitted into the church , and not so much as the whisper of such a thing to be found in all the holy writings of the apostles . and beside , i have shewed from the testimony of vives , ( augustines commentor ) that the church had not the custom to baptize infants in old time . it is likewise certain ( if history be true ) that the gospel-church used no compulsion in matters of faith for more than three hundred years after christ . about which time constantine ordained grievous punishments for such as spake against christ ; and allowed the christians , to use the unbelievers hardly . but god did not bless these doings : for constantine became an arrian heretick , and persecuted the bishop that baptized him , as also others that continued faithful . hence then i conclude , that seeing the present papal church of rome hath not the true mark of antiquity , therefore they lose at once , the next three , succession , universality , and visibility : for , antiquity being wanting , no true succession can be found ; because the root of succession , if good , must be the antiquity of it . so take antiquity from them , and then wanting that first age , they cannot be found in every age ; and not being found in every age , especially the first age , then they lose visibility , as themselves propose it for a mark of the church . and for their holiness , i have spoken to that before , and surely it is but like their neighbours . and for their miracles , i have given you a taste of them from loreto : and beside , others do claim that mark as well as they ; yea , the turks produce miracles ; and the protestants do the like ; and others , as the quakers , the like : and the baptists can say of a truth , that god hath done for and amongst them , some things which have exceeded the course of nature . and so their miracles will not more prove them a church , than the miracles of others will prove the contrary , unless they can prove the others to be illusions . and that they have not the mark of unity , is evident , if history may be heeded ; for , saith my author , there is an hundred sects of monks and fryars amongst them , and some of them so divided , as they burnt one another for matters of religion . and for different opinions , there are no less than three hundred . see fox act. and monument . p. 260. and willit , in his book called , tetrastilon papis . i know the papists do make a great deal of noise about their pastoral succession , as if they could derive it from man to man , up to the apostle peter . but i find the learned protestants making it a great question , whether ever peter was bishop of rome , or not . and jerom is said to have seen some old books , which shew , that narcissus ruled the roman church , when paul saluted him and his family , in his epistle to the romans . no small contention is there likewise among the learned , whether linus or clement were the second bishop of rome : so that this pastoral succession the papists pretend to , meets with shrewd objections in the very first and second person of that line . against the uninterrupted continuance of their pretended succession , many things are objected : as , that there were sometimes three , and sometimes two popes , and that for more than twenty years time together ; so that no man could tell where the true pastoral authority lay . and then comes in that strange disaster of joan the female pope , who for almost three years cut the chain of this pretended succession . this thing is famous in history . lastly , although the papists could prove a continued succession of persons claiming the title of universal bishop , yet this would not justifie them all to be the pastors of christ's church . for these two rules are given us even by the antients ; 1. that peter left his innocency hereditary as well as his seat ; and that he which hath not the one as well as the other , is not peter's successor . 2. that it is not the chair , but the doctrine that maketh a bishop . now , 3dly , add but paul's rule in this matter , 1 tim. 3. and titus 1. and then i am bold to affirm , that many popes of rome were not the true successors of peter in pastoral authority . for i find it laid to the charge of divers popes , that they were drunken-whoremongers , theeves , given more to war than christ , rooted in all unspeakable sin ; furious men , prophane scoffers of christ ; incestuous persons , murderers , poysoners of their own parents and kindred ; open sodomites or buggerers ; blasphemers , incorrigible hereticks , enchanters ; callers upon the devil to help them to play at dice ; drinkers of the devil's health , and traitors to princes . these things are so notorious and evidently true of the popes of rome , as that the papists do not deny them . t. b. end to controvers . and the author of the seven queries , as you may see in part before . yea , bernard was not a little moved with the wickedness of the popes of rome , when he called them , tyrants , defrauders , raveners , traytors , darkness of the world , wolves and devils . and , can we think that succession to be good which is derived from devils ? i need say no more . see , for the proof of all that i have said , these books ; fox act. & monument . willit synops . prediaux's introduct . the tenth reason . the present assemblies of baptized believers , and they only , are the true visible church of jesus christ : therefore the present papal church of rome , is not the church of christ . the explanation of this reason , or argument . this reason or argument is not so to be understood , as if we do shut all men out of heaven who are not members of our church . no verily : this is the express doctrine of the papists : for they say , that out of the church is no salvation ; and by church they mean , only those that adhere to the papal church of rome : and hereupon they teach expresly ( and so do some protestants also ) that without baptism , or the desire of baptism , &c. none can be saved : and therefore it is that they give power to midwives to baptize children sometimes between the womb and the world. that which we teach , is this , that the ordinary way appointed for men to receive salvation in , is , the preaching of repentance and remission of sins to all nations , in the name of jesus christ ; and the administration of baptism , as a pledge thereof , to all that give acceptance to these glad-tydings ; and upon this account this ministration is called , the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins . and we do teach , as a most infallible doctrine , that without profession of faith , manifestation of repentance , and being baptized with water in the name of jesus christ , &c. no person can be orderly admitted into the church or kingdom of god on earth . and that therefore it concerns every man , living to years of understanding , and having the gospel tendred to him , only to look for salvation this way , as he will answer it before the lord , for contemning god's ordinary way , and presuming to challenge the grace of eternal life in a way of his own devising . nevertheless , we do not hence conclude , that all persons shall be damned that seek not life in this way . for , first , no infant can seek for it in the way which the gospel proposeth life to men of years : yet surely it is a most cruel doctrine to say , that any infants dying in their infancy shall be damned in hell , because ( as one very well said ) god will not damn any persons for that which they cannot help . again , in rom. 1st . and 2d . chapters , paul teacheth , that if the sons of men act forth themselves in a way of love , fear , obedience , and reverence to their creator , according to the means of light vouchsafed to them , that this shall be as much as shall be required of them , in the day when god shall judge the secrets of all men by jesus christ ( for god will not gather where he hath not strewed ) at which time , god will not judge them by the law that never had it . howbeit , let all that have it ( i mean his written law ) expect to be judged by it . and therefore , though we will not presume to judge of the final state of this or that society of men professing conscionably this or that form of worship , but leave that wholly to the lord ; yet we will not cease humbly to beg of all such persons in the name of jesus christ , that they having his law , would carefully observe the terms whereupon life is held forth unto them , and become such glad receivers of the word , as is mentioned , acts 2. 41. then they which gladly received the word , were baptized : and the same day were added to the church about three thousand souls . the argument thus explained , i shall now endeavour to make it good . the tenth argument maintained . that the present assemblies of baptized believers , and no other present assemblies of men , are the true church of christ , i prove , thus : either the present assemblies of baptized believers , or else some other assemblies now in the practice of infant * baptism , must be the true church of christ ; because without baptism , the papists say ( and say truly too ) there can be no true church of christ at this day : now these two wayes of baptizing only ( i mean of water-baptism ) is pretended as necessary in order to a visible church-state : viz. the dipping or baptizing persons upon their personal profession of faith , as the present assemblies of the baptists do practise ; or baptizing ( or rather sprinkling ) of infants without personal profession of faith , as the present national churches do practise . for most undoubtedly , the true and legitimate claim to this title of christ's church , must be found in one of these two parties : and that no national assembly , gathered together by pedo-baptism , can fairly claim this title , i have shewed before , whither now i refer my reader . and for the evincing yet further , that the present assemblies of baptized believers are the true visible church of christ , i thus argue : they , and they only , have the true ecclesiastical marks of truly antient primitive or apostolical gathering , constitution and government : therefore they , and they only , are the true church of jesus christ . these three points , namely , gathering , constitution and government , i take ( if right ) to be the infallible marks of a true church . and that the present assemblies of baptized believers , and they only , have them , will be evident to him that considereth what they were at first , and how they agree with what in these respects is only found in the assemblies of the baptized congregations . the truly antient , primitive and apostolical gathering , in respect of the first means used in order thereunto , was the preaching repentance and remission of sins , or the gospel unto every creature ; and upon their conviction , to command them , as from the lord , to be baptized , every one of them , in the name , &c. as appears , matth. 28. 19 , 20. mark 16. 15 , 16. acts 2. 38. acts 8. 37. acts 10. 47 , 48. and herein onely the present assemblies of baptized believers do closely follow christ's primitive ministers . the primative and apostolical gathering of the church of christ in respect of the subjects gathered , were only such , as through the virtue and prevalency of the word preached , or made known , did give a demonstration of their regeneration by the profession of faith , and manifestation of repentance , and being dipped in water in the name of the father , &c. for the proof whereof i appeal to those several scriptures alledged against the gathering of christ's church of such persons , as of whose regeneration no demonstration is or can be given , answerable to what the scripture doth require , in order to persons admission into the kingdom of god or church on earth . and , secondly , i appeal to the practice of the apostles acting , in pursuance of that commission given them in that behalf . and , thirdly , i do appeal to the churches themselves , which were gathered by the apostles , as they are described to us in these several texts following . these texts do shew to the diligent reader , that here is such things spoken of this numerous church , as is necessarily exclusive of any infants being admitted into their society , as to participate of any church ordinance : and the like will appear to the scripture-searching soul , in all those other churches ; as the respective places will sufficiently convince . i have it freely granted , under the hand of a learned clergy-man , that churches , at the first , were gathered only as we affirm : but he tells me , that when persecution ceased , god took in all nations , or whole nations ; which hitherto he hath not proved . the church at jerusalem . acts 1. 15 , 21 , 22. acts 2. 41 , 42. heb. 5 , 6 , & 8 , chapters . the church at samaria . acts 8. 12 , 13 , 14 , 15 , 16 , 17. the church at cesaria . acts 10. 33 , 44 , 45 , 46 , 47 , 48. the church at antioch . acts 11. 20 , 21 , 23 , 26. acts 13. 12. with acts 9. 38. the church at philippi . acts 16. 12 , 13 , 14 , 15 , 31 , 32 , 33 , 34 , 40. phil. 1. 6 , 7 , 8 , 9 , 10. the church at thessalonica . acts 17. 1 , 2 , 3 , 4. 2 thess . 1. 3 , 10 , 11. the church at colosse . coloss . 1. 4 , 5 , 6. coloss . 2. 10 , 11 , 12. the church at corinth . acts 8. 1 , 2 , 3 , 4 , 5 , 6 , 7 , 8. 1 cor. 1. 2. the church at rome . acts 28. 24. rom. 6. 3 , 14. the church at ephesus . acts 19. 1 , 2 , 3 , 4 , 5 , 6 , 7. ephes . 1. 13 , 14 , 15. the church at galatia . gal. 3. 26 , 27 , 28 , 29. gal. 3. 1 , 2 , 3 , 4 , 5 , 6. these scriptures , duely considered , shew , that all those famous churches were gathered in a way contrary to that of the national churches , and consonant to the way of the present baptized churches . and be it here observed , that no man ever yet could shew by any record of such authority as may suffice to be a foundation of faith in this case , that by the apostles any were ever admitted into the church in their infancy . wherefore look well upon the scripture , and then upon the gathering of the churches of the baptists , and you will find that they , and they only , have the true antient primitive or apostolical-mark of church-gathering . of constitution . they onely can be truly constituted that are rightly gathered , which the baptized churches onely are . the primitive constitution of the church consisted principally in these two heads ; viz. free-fellowship in the doctrine of the apostles ; acts 2. 40 , 41 , 42 , 47. job . 1. 11 , 12 , 13. act. 17. 4. 1 thess . 1. 5 , 6 , 9. 1 john 1. 3. rev. 22. 17. no force of a worldly nature was used in the begetting or continuing her fellowship , for it was a mutual consent . the second thing pertaining to the constitution , consists in the disposing of her members to those places to which they are fitted to serve in the body , 1 cor. 12. 27. with vers . 18. 28. acts 6. 3 , 4. now that the present assemblies of the baptized believers , have this form of constitution in both respects , is evident to all that will take knowledge of their constitution . of government . the true ancient primitive and apostolical government of the church , was only spiritual , and did recide not in the pastors apart from the church , but in the pastors together with the church ; yet so , as that those to whom the church hath committed her power , are the instruments , that in the name of christ and his church , are to exercise government , matth. 18. 17 , 18. 1 cor. 5. 3 , 4 , 5. 1 tim. 1. 20. & 5. 20. this government consisteth in these things ; exhortations , rebukes , reproofs , &c. with all long-suffering and doctrine , 2 tim. 1. 2. and if this prevail not with the offenders , then is the power of excommunication to be exercised , to the with-holding their priviledges in the church , and to the delivering them up to satan for the destruction of the flesh ; and for saving the sinner from his sin . and if this prevail not , then the sinners sin is retained , till the day of judgment . but if the sinner be humbled , the sin is by the church to be remitted , and the offender restored , matth. 18. 17 , 18. 1 cor. 5. 3 , 4 , 5 , 11 , 13. 2 thess . 3. 6 , 14 , 15. tit. 3. 11. joh. 20. 23. and this government is to be exercised without partiality , 1 tim. 5. 21. and without respect to filthy lucre , 1 pet. 5. 2. and without domination or lordship , 2 cor. 1. 24. 1 pet. 5. 1 , 2 , 3 , 4. 1 thess . 5. 6 , 7 , 8. now that this goverment is only found in the present assemblies of baptized believers , is thus proved ; out of the church it cannot be , and in the church it must be , ephes . 4. till all the saints be perfected ; and that this society , and no other , can be the church , i have also proved ; and for further evidence i refer every one to the exercise of the present churches of baptized believers , in point of ecclesiastical government . as for other marks , it is needless to insist upon them ; for that church which hath these , cannot be without the other , so far as they are necessary . yea , let it be well observed , that that church which hath true antiquity , is the church alone , which hath the promise of succession , or whatsoever else is needful in a way of necessity in order to her being : and therefore , though we could not prove by history , those things which many make great boast of ; yet , having the most certain mark [ antiquity ] we have the other in promise , and therefore must believe that the church hath not failed of the accomplishment of them ; for histories ( some of them ) be quite lost ; and others , partly silent , and partly contradictory about these things . again , if history did mention an un-interrupted continuance of baptized churches , such , i mean , as we contend for , yet it would be but testis humano , and so no foundation of faith : and beside , it would suppose , that the church of christ is so beholding to humane history , as it 's impossible for her to prove her self the church of christ without it , though she have the holy scripture . but this is surely to make the church to stand upon too sandy a foundation . the end . the printer to the reader . courteous reader . the author being at a great distance , so that he could not attend the press , this treatise was hastily read over by a friend of his , who having observed these few faults , desires thee to correct them with thy pen , as also any other which thou shalt meet with , that probably he hath overseen . page 16. line 19. for will allow , reade , will not allow . p. 20. l. 23. f. these following , r. in these things following . p. 31. l. 22. f. they advance , r. they might advance . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a41774-e1350 august . contra max. l. 3. c. 14. mar. 7. notes for div a41774-e1720 these were both general councils mat. 26 1 cor. 11 cyprian serm. penet . gelas . consec . dist . 2. aug. de nat. & grat. aug. in iohn . tract . 94. aug. ad fortunat . august . prolog . l. 3. de trin. orig. in jer. hom . 1. * the apostles are here excepted gerson exam . of doct. panor . chap. signif . * note , there is not the word as in my words , only i say the same , that is , god must take up our quarrels ; and how that must be , is shewed in my answer following . heb. 1. 1. * not denying christ to be her foundation in the main . eph. 2. 20. chrisost . hom. in mat. 24 aug. cont . petil . c. 85 aug. cont . max. l. 3. c. 14 s. n. antidot . chrysost . hom. in matth. iren. l. 3 cap. 4. aug. 7. tome cont . ere 's . author 7. qu. t. b. end to contro . author of the 7. queries author of the 7. queries * it would be here noted , that neither the marks of unity , universality , &c. nor the creed , do prove a people that hath them all , to be the church ; because none of them mention baptism , without which there cannot be a visible church . * see a book , entituled , a well grounded treattise concerning baptism . justin mart. in or at . ad autho. pium . jerom. super mat. 28 athan. in serm . 3. cont . arrian . haimo . in postil . sup . text beda super act. 19. tertul. qui sunt bapt. parvil . aug. de civitat . dei. † 2 cor. 5. 20. hillar . contra auxen . willit . synops . rhem. test . annot. rhem. test . annot. dist . 32 cap. 10. fab. chron. rhem. test . annot. in rev. 17. aug. de civitat . dei , lib. 18. chrys . in rev. 13. luk. 12 51 , 52 , 53. mat. 10 34 , 35. luke , 21. 16. 1 cor. 7. 11 , 13 , 15 , 21 , 22 , 23. mat. 3. 9. 2 cor. 5. 16 , 17 , 18. gal. 3. 2 6 , 29. acts 10 35. rom. 9. 6 , 7 , 8. rom. 5. 16 , 18. acts 2. 38 , to 41. fab. chron. 4th part . yet this eusebius doth seem to contradict . willit . synops . papis . jerome , in ep . ad rom. luk. 24 * alias , rantism a sigh for peace, or, the cause of division discovered wherein the great gospel promise of the holy ghost, and the doctrine of prayer with imposition of hands, as the way ordained of god to seek for it, is asserted and vindicated, as the interest and duty of christs disciples in general : in answer to a book intituled a search for schism / by tho. grantham ... grantham, thomas, 1634-1692. 1671 approx. 217 kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from 86 1-bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : 2008-09 (eebo-tcp phase 1). a41790 wing g1548 estc r39437 18419185 ocm 18419185 107514 this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons 0 1.0 universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase 1, no. a41790) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set 107514) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, 1641-1700 ; 1634:8) a sigh for peace, or, the cause of division discovered wherein the great gospel promise of the holy ghost, and the doctrine of prayer with imposition of hands, as the way ordained of god to seek for it, is asserted and vindicated, as the interest and duty of christs disciples in general : in answer to a book intituled a search for schism / by tho. grantham ... grantham, thomas, 1634-1692. [16], 165 [i.e. 149] p. printed for the author, [london] : 1671. place of publication suggested by wing. numerous errors in paging. imperfect : tightly bound, with print show-through and some loss of print. reproduction of original in the british library. created by converting tcp files to tei p5 using tcp2tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between 1473 and 1700 available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the 25,363 texts created during phase 1 of the project have been released into the public domain as of 1 january 2015. anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. 5% (or 5 pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of 100 instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level 4 of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p5, characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng baptists -catechisms. baptists -apologetic works. baptism in the holy spirit. imposition of hands. 2007-11 tcp assigned for keying and markup 2007-11 apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images 2008-01 judith siefring sampled and proofread 2008-01 judith siefring text and markup reviewed and edited 2008-02 pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a sigh for peace ; or the cause of division discovered . wherein the great gospel promise of the holy ghost , and the doctrine of prayer with imposition of hands , as the way ordained of god to seek for it ; is asserted and vindicated , as the interest and duty of christs disciples in general . in answer to a book intituled a search for schism . by tho. grantham , a servant of christ . gal. 5. 7 , 8 , 9. ye did run well , who did hinder you that you should not obey the truth ? this perswasion cometh not of him that calleth you . a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump . i have confidence in you , through the lord , that you will be none otherwise minded ; but he that troubleth you shall bear his burthen whosoever he be . wherefore love the truth and peace , zech. 8. 19. printed for the author , 1671. the epistle dedicatory . to the church of christ in london , with the general assembly of messengers , elders , and brethren , occasionally meeting together to consider of the affairs of the churches of christ . salutation , &c. brethren , when i consider how much it is your desire , and the desire of the churches in general , that brotherly concord , peace and truth , might possess the room of all our divisions , in affection , judgment , and practise ; and particularly in the fourth principle of christianity . and how many prayers are daily made to god for so great a blessing ; and that hopeful way we lately seem'd to be in , to lay hold of the thing which hath been so long desired : and therewithal that most unhappy obstruction of our hopes ( as ye know ) arising from one who should rather have been a restorer of the antient path which many have forsaken , and so a healer of the breach which hath been made , by its being neglected : who being in reputation for wisdome , having therewithal great opportunity ( and i am perswaded really intended ) to do the church of christ much good ; even then , by a little solly following his own councels ( doubtless through satans malice , who envied our good ) hath made himself and his enterprises obnoxious , and our wound more grievous . i say , when i considered these things , i could not pass them over without a sigh , ( even this which here i present unto you ) saying in my heart , why hath the lord done this ? which was no sooner conceived , but i was immediately satisfied , that the lord was jealous for his holy way , which had been gr●sly prophaned by an hypocritical conformity thereunto . and true for ever is that word , hosea 14. ult . all the wayes of the lord are right , and the just shall walk therein ; but the transgressor shall fall therein . and certainly , as our brethrens resusing to seek the lord after the due order at the first , so this prodigious hypocrisie at the last , may too truly be called * perrez ecclesia at this day . thou lord art righteous , thou knowest the hearts of the children of men , and hast discovered the hidden things thereof , and hast pleaded the cause of thy precious ( though much abused ) truth . even so lord let our iniquities be ever corrected , but yet in mercy forgive us our trespasses . but what shall we say , shall we now no more go about this dreadfull work , to bring the ark ( the fourth principle of christianity i mean ) to its proper place in the churches ? or rather some irregular churches to their due reverence unto it . if it seem good in the eyes of the lord , let his servants still convene to consider of this matter , perhaps we shall find grace in his sight ; for there is hope that we shall one understand another , and with one consent seek and serve the lord god of our fore-fathers . and this i am the more induced to believe or hope for , from , not only the great desire which i yet find to be alive in the hearts of christians generally , that peace in this matter might be upon israel . but also from the great forwardness which i found in the searchers themselves to consent unto certain proposals for peace ; the first of which is this , that it be granted and professed on all sides by the formerly divided parties , that that laying on of hands , heb. 6. 2. is one of the principles of christs doctrine , and a part of the foundation . this proposition being considered , it may appear that there wants but a step ( as it were ) to unity in the truth it self , and so to a lasting peace one with another . and methinks it should be no impossible thing , for us to agree about the particular service intended , heb. 6. 2. ( unless a spirit of perversness be mingled amongst us ) towards the clearing of which difficulty , something is said in the sequel , which i desire may be considered . why the searchers should so much declaim against you , as if you unchurched all church●s but your selves , i can see no reason , having never understood , that you did at any time by any agreement , deliver such a doctrine . nor is it so much your business to meddle with unchurching any body , as to keep your selves from corruption in doctrine and manners . indeed the point of communion with those who reject or oppose your faith and practice in the case depending , hath been much debated , and resolved in the negative ( èspecially touching the table of the lord ) but this is so far from being an argument , that you deny them to be churches of christ , that it plainly argues you own them for such ; but yet such , as for their rejecting or opposing some truth of god , are therefore uncapable of present communion with those that religiously observe the truth by them rejected and opposed . for if you deem them to be no churches at all , what need any debate be had , whether it be orderly or safe to communicate with them at the lords table ? now , that persons may be allowed the appellation of christians ( and so of the church of christ ) and yet ( as the matter may be circumstanced concerning them ) ought to be held at some distance in respect of present communion , with other christians , or churches , implies no absurdity , but is rather very necessary , i hope the ensuing discourse will demonstrate . something also i have said in vindication of the messengers office ( which i perceive to be much questioned by some ) i confess my self nothing so fit a person to plead this cause as some other . however , if that which i have done may give occasion to any other to do more , or more effectually , in this point , i shall think my pains well bestowed . i commit all that i have said to the blessing of god , and the consideration of his churches . your brother and servant , tho. grantham . to the authors of the book , intituled a search for schism . brethren , when we consider how god is able to effect good things for his people by contrary wayes , even by turning the unkindness of brethren into means of preservation to the family , gen. 50. 20. we are made even against hope to believe in hope , that the product of your doings in your search ( and the epistle prefixed ) may be good , although its procedure in respect of its chief patriot , was certainly from a mind filled with perturbation , and ( it s to be feared ) with no small emulation against some , for no other cause , then for their confidence and constancy in that , which by the vision of truth , is made known for the good of the church . for how is it credible that a pure fountain ( or mind filled with love and peace ) should ever send forth such dreadful streams of slanders against the church of god , as can hardly be paralelled in any author ? as if the congregations of christians under imposition of hands , were invaders and usurpers of the lords peculiar prerogative , such as would irrevocably throw their fellow servants into hell and death : such as lock heaven-gate against the strictest piety of a dissenting brother , and open it wide to those that are defective in morals . such as heat the furnace seven times for those which bow not to their dictates : such as make conscience a make bate : such as kindle flames in gods house by fire taken from the altar , and bring the fattest oblations to maintain that fire of contention : such as will rather fire the house of god , than dye without doing somewhat , which may perpetuate their names : yea such as are sathans ●urveyers to bring prey to his den . and ( to make the measure run over and over ) such as , if they could execute all that they condemn , few or none could be saved ! it is true , after all this , and much more of the same nature , you stroke us on the head , and tell us , though you thus speak , yet you are perswaded better things of ●he most of us ; a narrow plaister for so great a wound , being no more then must ●e said ( if charity bear any sway ) of the manifold sects which now profess christianity , among whom there are many ● who according to their light ) are pious , peaceable , and serious . but alas , who will believe that many among us are good christians , if it be true , that one part of our churches consist of such as are notoriously known to be such as you have characterized ? but what shall we say , shall we render railing for railing ? god forbid ! for we are taught of god to overcome evil with good ; nor will we revenge our selves by recriminations . and as we are confident that our innocency will in these things greatly plead against you ; so we trust there are no such impieties , and execrable doers among you , if this your search have not tinctured you . the lord knoweth , and israel shall know , that if we knew any such evil workers in our congregations , they should either reform or go to their place , and if you know any such , you might have done well to have singled them out , that we might have known them by name , and not have thus sold us into the hands of scorners , to be a derision to the foolish , prov. 12. 18. there is that speaketh like the piercings of a sword , but the tongue of the wise is health . nor do we doubt but that many of you are meerly ensnared in the publication of your epistle , and it is strange you should imply his pen in this matter , whom you knew to be too much entangled in the folly of his own wayes ( at that time ) to be truly serviceable to god and his people , whatever he hath been in time past . what is here written , now offers it self to your consideration , as a thing compelled from us at this time , by your high provocation , well knowing it to be more suitable to the time , and the state of the church in general , to be studying for terms of reconciliation , then arguments for disputation ; and therefore we could wish that christians would not thus put one another to business , seeing they do bear ( and are like to bear ) in their body the marks of the lord jesus , according to that saying , gal. 6. 17. nor was it needful to set down your demands in this our answer , partly for that the substance may be understood by what we have said , and partly for that you have made your book so publick , as that it is ( as it were ) in every brothers hand , who therefore when he sees this answer , may compare it with your search , for his own satisfaction . your brother , tho. grantham . a sigh for peace : or , the cause of division discovered , &c. it is certainly an easie thing ( though very pernicious ) to fill the church of christ with questions ; and such too , as may carry a shew of strength against the most important articles of our faith. but it is not so easie for those who are sick of questions or demands , to receive satisfaction by any endeavour whatsoever . and as in other points of faith ; the questions of some have been endless , even so now that humour hath been and is much at work , against that solemn service of prayer , with the imposition of hands for the promised spirit of god , as a gift pertaining to the members of the body of our lord jesus christ . as is too apparent by sundry papers extant , and among the rest , one entituled , a search for schism , containing no less than an hundred demands ( though 40. only be the number set down by the demandants ) which are the more prodigeous for that divers of them have been answered , by divers hands , and no reply made by the enquirers . what the reason hereof should be is doubtful , unless the opposers of this truth intend to state the controversie anew ( for i was told that this book of demands is but a preparatory to a greater work ) and thereby become ( more effectually ) the disturbers and obstructers of that measure of unity remaining , and peace pretended . but as in this we shall be too solicitous , so , neither in our answer , shall we need to be ovluminous , by tracing their demands one by one . for though the number thereof be many , yet they are reducible to three heads , touching which the truth being evinced , the whole body of their demands are answered . now the heads to which their demands may be reduced are these : the first , concerns the constitution of those congregations of baptized disciples who reject that solemn service of prayer with imposition of hands for the promised spirit : viz. whether they be true churches of christ or not ? the second , respecteth the matter of communion between those christians who religiously observe prayer with the imposition of hands , as a principle of christs doctrine , pertaining to the beginning of christian men ; and these who reject and oppose it . the third , is touching the service it self , in respect of its grounds and ends ; as also in respect of the persons concerned in the practice thereof at this day . that i may with the more facility and clearness proceed in the consideration of these particulars , i shall begin with the last first ; touching which particular , i shall endeavour to make good this proposttion , viz. that as god hath promised to give the spirit of his son ( or his holy spirit ) to all that are the called of the lord : so he hath appointed a solemn way wherein his servants and handmaids , generally , are to wait upon him for the reception thereof , which way is the prayers of the church ( performed by her ministers ) with the laying on of hands , and this as a principle of christian rel●gion , belonging to them in the min●rity of their christian state . for explication of some parts of this proposition , it is meet that we shew , first , what we mean by the holy ghost , sith some now , ( as well as heretofore acts 19. — ) either by reason of ignorance or some worse cause , seem not to know , whether there be any holy ghost . as if they had forgotten unto what they were baptized . matth. 28. 19. by the holy ghost then , we do not mean the spirit of man in its most reformed and elevated state imaginable ; neither any created spirit whatsoever . but by the holy ghost , we mean that spirit , by whose operation the creation of the world was brought forth , and formed . gen. 1. 2. job 26. 13. and which knoweth all things , even the deep things of god , 1 cor. 2. 10. and which is present every where , psal . 139. 7 , 8. 9. which spirit we therefore believe to be one with the father in nature and essence , and therefore rightly said to be god , acts 5. 3 , 4 , 9. secondly , when we speak of mens receiving this holy spirit , we do not mean that he dwels in them essentially and personally ; for so they cannot contain him . but he dwels in them by manifestation and operation . by gifts , according to 1 cor. 12. by fruits , according to 1 cor. 13. 4 , 5 , 6 , 7. galath . 5. 22 , 23. and seeing the ground of this so much neglected truth , the fourth principle of christs doctrine , lieth much in that great promise of the spirit of god , as the right of all the disciples of christ . it behoveth that we open the nature of that glorious promise , that being affected with the excellency , and made sensible of the necessitie thereof , we may the more devoutly seek for it , not only in our private devotion , but also in that special and publick way assigned in the holy scripture for the obtaining so great a benefit . let it therefore first be considered , that to be under the common influence and operation of the spirit , in the ministery of the word , in order to conversion , is one thing ; and the reception of the holy ghost , as a seal and confirmation of the souls of christians , as it is the earnest of their inheritance , is another . it is certain , a person may be eminently under the operation of the spirit , in the first consideration ; and yet be a stranger to the reception of the spirit in the other ; as appeared first in the apostles themselves , who though they were the persons which received the first fruits of the promised holy spirit , yet were they for some time in the profession of the gospel before they received it . for they did not receive the spirit of promise till after the ascention of our lord , acts 1. 4 , 5. — but wait for the promise of the father , which ( saith he ) ye have heard of me ; f●r john truly baptized with water , but ye shall be baptized with the holy ghost not many dayes hence . john 7. 39. the spirit was not yet given , because that jesus was not yet glorified . in like manner the samaritans were converted from the errour of their way , by the preaching of the word , and became the disciples of christ , and yet the spirit of promise was faln on none of them , acts 8. 12 , 15 , 16. the ephesians also believed in god after they heard the gospel of their salvation ; but were not sealed with the holy spirit of promise till afterward , eph. 1. 13 , 14. agreeable hereunto is that question of the apostle , acts 19. 2. have ye received the holy ghost since ye believed ? the persons to whom this question was put , were believers in christ , yea baptized believers . whence we are to note , that baptized disciples have right to the promise of the holy ghost ; and indeed hence it was that peter could so confidently and universally promise ( in the word of the lord ) the gift of the holy ghost to every one that doth repent of their iniquities , and are baptized in the name of the l●rd jesus christ for the remission of their sins , acts 2. 38. it appeareth therefore , that persons may be under the operation of the spirit of god in the ministerie of the word , to their illumination and conversion so far as to be brought into a certain state of christianity , ( for those that may be called disciples are called christians , acts 11. 26. ) and yet be without the enjoyment of the sealing and confirming spirit of promise , in themselves , which is yet more evident , from john 14. 16 , 17. i will pray the father , and he shall give you another comforter — even the spirit of truth — for he dwelleth with you , and shall be in you . note well , this promise doth not respect the spirit , as it worketh miracles , only ; but also , and indeed much more , the spirit as it is a leader into all truuh , called therefore the spirit of truth , yea , 't is the spirit in such wise as sh●uld ●bide with , and in the saints for ever ; yea , it is the comforter , or spirit of comfort , and is therefore that gift of the spirit which pertaineth to christians generally . secondly , that this sealing and confirming spirit of promise belongs to christs disciples generally , whether male or female , i conceive some necessity to demonstrate , because the searchers , to the intent , that at the least they may exclude ●omen from the benefit of prayer , with the laying on of hands , will not have them included in the word them , acts 8. 17. but if we prove , that women have right to the promise equally with men , we shall not at all fear the trifling demands of the searchers in their 29 querie , which only serves , to shew the weakness of their cause , for it seems if it be true , that women ( as well as men ) had hands imposed on them with prayer , by the apostles , for the holy spirit ; then their cavils against the universality of the pract●ce of laying on o● hands is ( at least ) the less considerable . now that the promise of the spirit extends to christian women as well as men , appeareth from the prophets foresight of the extent thereof , isa . 44. 3. i will powr water upon him that is thirsty , and flouds upon the dry ground , i will powr my spirit upon thy seed , and my blessing upon their off-spring . joel 2. and it shall come to pass afterward , that i will powr out my spirit upon all flesh — and upon the servants , and upon the handmaid in those dayes , will i powr out of my spirit . which glorious promise was first fulfilled to the christians , soon after the assention of our lord , acts 2. and now is the time , as well as then , for christians to reap the fruit of that promise , acts 5. 32. — the holy ghost which god hath g●ven to them that obey him . because ye are sons , god hath s●nt forth the spirit of his son into your hearts . gal. 4. 6. in jesus christ there is neither male nor female , but if ye be christs then are ye abrahams seed , and heirs according to promise . it is the spirit of promise which doth witness with our spirit , that we are the children of god. and again , he that stabiisheth us in chr●st , and hath ano●nted us is god , who also hath se●led us , and given the earnest of the spirit in our hearts . yea this , even this spirit , is one of the great and precious promises by which christians are made partakers of the divine nature , according to 2 pet. 1 , 3 , 4. thus we see that the scriptures do evince , that the handmaids as well as the servants of the lord ; that the children of god without excepti●n ; that ●he church of god without rejection of any true member thereof ▪ have a clear indubit●te right to the gift of the h●ly spirit . and it is also evident that the promise of the spirit , consists not only , no , nor chiefly in those gifts , which some say are now ceased , to wit , of miracles , tongues , &c. ( though they have no scripture for it ) but this promise chiefly consists in the sanctifying graces , and soulest ablishing comforts thereof , yea in that which sealeth a christian to the day of redemption ▪ ( which tongues and miracles will fail to do ) and in the mean time is like water to him that i● thirsty , as before we have seen . 't is that vnction which the holy one which teacheth christians all things , or leads them into all truth . i● a word , it is that reception of the spiri● which is above all gifts of tongues , prophesies ▪ &c. called charity , and is branched into meekness , temperance , goodness and faith , yea , ' ti● that gift of the spirit by which the love of god is shed abroad in the hearts of christians , being the spirit of love , power , and a sound mind ▪ in the exercise whereof ( i mean this gift o● the spirit ) a christian is both accepted of god ▪ and approved of men . so then we have the glorious promise of the spirit remaining for , and pertaining to the handmaids and servants o● the lord , in the most excellent gifts thereo● as much as ever , and consequently are as much concerned to seek for it as ever any was , and this leads me to the second branch of my proposition , viz. the dutiful observance of that way which is allowed and confirmed from heaven for obtaining that heavenly donation . that god should by his prophets foretell o● such grace , and so often mention it as so grea● a promise ; the reception whereof is so necessary as without which christians do want the lively evidence , ●ea● & confirmation that they are the sons of god , and heirs with christ ; & not assign some peculiar way , and special means , for all that are concern'd , to make use of in order to their obtaining it , seems not to be credible ; which yet he hath not done , if prayer with imposition of hands by the church ( or her delegates ) be rejected ; if otherwise , it were well if some body would assign us what peculiar way the word of god directs us to , as being that which god hath ratified from heaven , as a means peculiar for that end and purpose ; which if any assay to shew us , let them also consider why the apostles took that way which is so much neglected by our brethren , if there were any other particular means and way to be used for the end aforesaid ? but if it be said that no special way or means is left us , but the general ordinance of prayer ; &c. we must then say , it is not like the dealings of god in other cases ; for ordinarily when it pleased god to promise or give some special favour or gift unto his church , he therewithall ordered some solemn or service to keep in memory that his favour , and to be a means to partake of the fruit of his promise : thus the covenant which god made with abraham and his seed , the deliverance which he wrought for them , the great things which he promised them , must be perpetuated , and waited for , in the use of such wayes , as in the wisedome of god , were thought fit for the memorial or reception of these favours respectively . and so must the remission of our sins by the death of christ , be sought for , and signified , not only by the word and prayer , in general ; but particularly , in the baptisme of of repentance , for the remission of our sins also . nor must we only receive the flesh and blood of christ , by the word preached , but particularly , in the solemn use of the table of the lord also . in like manner , we are not only to seek to god for his spirit in the constant and ordinary course of prayer , but also in a special and peculiar way of prayer , allowed and confirmed from heaven , for that very end and purpose , which is the point to be demonstrated according to what the scriptures in that behalf doth teach us . and first from that place , acts 8. 14 , 15 , 16 , 17. now when the ap●stles which were at jerusa●em heard that samaria had received the word of god , they sent unto them peter and john who when they were come down prayed for them that they might rec●ive the holy ghost — then laid they their hands on them and they received the holy g●ost . for the better understanding of this place , it is meet to consider that such as pray to god , ought to know that the thing which they pray for is attainable ; and that they know it is the will of god that they should ask of him that very thing which they pray for , especially when the prayer is made positively ; i mean , withou● conditional expressions , as in the case before us the prayer is such , as indeed it ought to be without doubting , when we ask of god those gifts which he hath promised . james 1. 5 , 6 , 7. but if by the holy ghost in this place , be meant only the extraordinarie gifts thereof , such as tongues , m●racles , &c. then certainly there was no ground from any promise of god , to pray that all those persons which were baptized in samaria , should so receive the spirit . no , nor any ground from any promise of god to pray for so much as any one particular person among them ●l● , sith the promise of god in that case , is not made to this or that man or woman by name ; and consequently here was no ground for the apostles to pray absolutely and believingly , but rather doubtingly , for that very thing which they purposely prayed for . seeing it is evident that not all the members of a church , but rather very few ( and them also unknown by name to any man , no not to the apostles themselves . 1 cor. 12. 11 , 29. acts 1. 24. ) are chosen to be prophets , workers of miracles , &c. and therefore it followeth that there could be no such laying on of hands at all practised here , as some imagine , namely a laying on of hands for the extraordinary gifts of the holy ghost . for though it is true , that god did sometimes give such gifts of his spirit in the way of praier with laying on of hands , yet that such gifts was the only proper end of that service , is confidently denied , because ( as before ) it was impossible to know ( in any ordinarie way ) for whom to pray , or on whom to impose hands , whether on men or women , seeing neither sex is exempted from the extraor ; dinarie gifts of the spirit . it is certain that god gave the gift of tongues , &c. in the ministerie of the word . acts 10. yet it doth not follow thence , that such gifts are the only proper end of preaching the word ; but the undoubted end of the lord , in that ordinance is , that men believe , and be saved ( though perhaps they never receive the gift of tongues , prophesie , &c. ) and this is certainly that end which shall be attained by all that rightly accept that means of salvation . john 20. 31. these things are written that ye might believe , and in believing that ye may have life through his name . nor will acts 19. 6. prove that there is , or ever was any such thing as laying on of hands for the extraordinary gifts of the spirit only , for still we must distinguish between an effect onely , and that which is the undoubted end of any service . the reasons even now urged , do forbid us to say , that tongues , miracles , &c. was the undoubted or precise end of laying on of hands , acts 19. because the service was universal ; but extraordinarie gifts are particular only ; and let it be seriously considered , that if paul had found twelve hundred men instead of twelve who had not receiv●d the holy gh●st since they believed , ought he not to have done that to them all which he did to these ? doubtless he ought ; yet who can imagine , that such gifts as tongues , miracles , &c. should be given to each individual ? this would be far from that order which god hath beautified his church withall . 1 cor. 12. 29 , 30. and whereas paul in this place , and peter and john in acts 8. is conceived by some of our opposites , to have imposed hands to work miracles for confirmation of the word , this is a very great mistake , for then there is no reason to imagine that the practice of laying on of hands should have been general ( as doubtless it was . ) for seeing that the healing of one cripple acts 4. 16. was sufficient to convince open enemies that the power of god was with his apostles ; then surely it was not necessarie that all the baptized should miraculously speak with tongues , for to convince themselves or others , that the word which they had received was from heaven . but alas , men fall into thi● errour , by their unwillingness to see the truth , for signes are not for them that believe ; and miracles had been wrought by philip at s●m●ria , to confirm the word , before peter and john came there . acts 8. 6 , 7. and all that we read of peter and john in respect of confirming the word , is only this , that they testified and preached it , and departed vers . 25. now that all the disciples at samaria had hands imposed on them , cannot without absurdity be denied , for certainly they imposed hands on all , in wh●se hehalf they prayed ; but will anyman say that they prayed but for some of them only , that they might receive the promise of the father , and that all the rest must be excluded both from the prayer , and the gift prayed for ? surely such a conceit would make peter and john miserable comforters to those disciples , whom they should thus neglect in their prayers for the holy spirit ; as all the women which were baptized were so neglected , in the opinion of the searchers , for they by their demands will needs suppose , that the apostles did not impose hands on women , as if women had not as clear a right to the promised spirit as men ! they might as well have doubted whether peter and iohn laid hands on men , seeing the text sayes nothing particularly of them any more than of the women . but i say these imaginations are very irrational , sith ( as before ) it was not known to peter or john , what persons by name should have extraordinary gifts , whether the servants or handmaids of the lord , nor whether any of them should be prophets or ●peakers with tongues . but this they knew , that the gift of the holy ghost belonged to them all ( for so they had preached to others , acts ● . 38. ) and therefore certainly they prayed for all to whom the promise did belong ; and then doubtless for whom they prayed , on them they laid their hands , and so it is evident they laid their hands on all . the same may be noted from pauls question acts 19. 2. have ye received the holy ghost since ye believed ? where certainly he includeth the whole number of these certain disciples , who ( by their ●nswer to the question ) being all discovered ●o be wanting in respect of that great gift of god ; paul must needs be very partial , if he had not the same care for all , that he had for some , and if his care was equally for them all , ●hen reason tels us he would not be want●ng to any of them in his endeavours , that they might receive that spirit which as 〈◊〉 they had not received . so that still we see , laying on of hands was practised as generally as baptism , or any other ordinance , where the practise of it is recorded , and that is an evidence that the end of that service was that gift of the holy ghost which is general , and consequently not for the extraordinary gifts of the spirit , otherwise then as they are included within the compass of that gracious promise . that the laying on of hands , acts 8. acts 19. was not the laying on of hands for extraordinarie gifts , but for the general donation of the spirit to disciples indifferently , is yet more manifest ; because upon this only ground could paul ask the disciples , whether they had received the holy ghost since they believed ; and upon this only ground may the ministers of christ ask this question of the disciples at this day , i mean so to ask it , as thereby implying that they ought to have it , for so much paul's question doth plainly imply , as appears by his endeavours that they ( who had been so long without it ) might now be made partakers of it , and that for them all indifferently . and upon this ground only could peter and iohn use the means to obtain the spirit for the disciples at samaria generally , namely because the promise of the spirit was universal . again from this consideration , that that laying on of hands acts 8. acts 19. was a general practise , and the gift prayed for in that service , a general gift , it will follow that the apostles performed this service of prayer with laying on of hands , by vertue of their ministerial authoritie , and not by vertue of any particular power they had to give the holy ghost , as some do vainly imagine , otherwise it will follow , that by their gift of miracles they were bound to work a miracle for every disciple at samaria ; and for every one of those certain disciples at ephesus , * which is absurd to imagine , or else that they did in this service more than they were bound to do either by vertue of gift or office , which is as ridiculous on the other hand ; for though it is certain that they had no power to give the spirit of god to any man ; yet certainly they had power ( or authoritie from god ) to pray , with the laying on of their hands , for the members of the bodie , that they might receive the spirit of promise , as appeared by those heavenly confirmations which ensued upon their performance , insomuch as that it may be said , this service of prayer with the laying on of hands is as much confirmed from heaven , to be a thing well pleasing to him , as any other ordinance whatsoever . and forasmuch as the universality of the practice of layng on of hands , with prayer for the holy spirit , being evinced is a matter of that importance , that even thence it will follow , that it is no such thing as many imagine it to be ( viz. a temporary practice only fitted for the apostles times , that some few having practised or submitted to it , it was to cease , being only perf●rmed for the gift of tongues and miracles , &c. ) i will therefore proceed a little further to demonstrate this service to be very universal . it may appear to all indifferent men , that very many thousands were in the religious practise of this ministration in the first churches . and first from the state of the church at samaria in its plantation , where the number of disciples was very great , in likelihood not less than an hun●red thousand , as may be gathered from acts 8. vers . 14. it is said , samaria had received the word ; and vers . 8. there was great joy in that city . which expressions , that they include each individual , i will not affirm ; for , if they import the generality of the inhabitants ( as that will appear ) it sufficeth for my purpose . this is evident , partly for that we hear not of so much as one person , who opposed himself against philip's preaching in that city . no not so much as simon the sorcerer , for he consented to philip's doctrine . and partly , for that there is the same reason to believe , that the whole city ( or the generality thereof ) was converted by philip , as that they had been generally deceived by simon the witch ( as that will not be denied ) for as it is said vers . 9. he bewitched them , to wit , the people of samaria ; which is interpreted of all , or the generality . vers . 11. to him they had regard , from the least even to the greatest of them . so on the other hand it is said , vers . 5. that philip went down to samaria , and preached christ to them , i. e. all , or the generality of them ; as it is rationally gathered from vers . 6. a●d the people with one accord , gave heed to those things which philip spake , he●ring and seeing the miracles which he did . hence we may perceive , a very general ( if not an universal ) conversion of this city ; who , like as in times past they gave regard to the sorcerer , both the least and greatest of them ; but now , with one accord , they gave heed to what philip spake ; even so , vers . 12. it is said of the very same people without exception , that when they beleeved philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of god , and the name of jesus christ , they were baptized . and that there might be no cause to doubt , whether the account given , be so general , as the terms already noted may imply ; it is added by way of explication , both men and women . yea further , as the deceived city is now recorded to be converted , so the very deceiver himself is brought in as believing and baptized , vers . 13. we have therefore not only a general or indefinite account of the disciples at samaria , but what is generally or indefinitely delivered in the words , samaria received the word , &c. is sufficiently defined to be meant of the people with one accord . of the deceiver , and them that had been deceived . of the people of both sexes , to wit , both men and women . and upon those very persons , it is said ( without the least intimation of any exception of any person or persons whatsoever ) the apostles laid their hands , after they had prayed for them , that they might receive the holy ghost , for as yet he was faln on none of them . note [ on none of them ] wherefore they prayed for them all . therefore they imposed hands on them all . now , suppose that the city of samaria , would afford but three hundred thousand inhabitants capable of instruction , if then i do allow two parts out of three , yet there remains 100000 converts probably ; however infallibly a great multitude . to whom we may well add ( as a people owning the doctrine of imposition of hands ) the church at jerusalem , which consisted of many thousands , by whom peter and john was sent to samaria , and it were impious to think , that they would now innovate a service in the worship of god at samaria , which was not before received , in the church that sent them thither . but this service is numbred among the principles of the hebrew church , and found practised in the church at ephesus ; whence it appears , this ministration was as universal as other ordinances in the primitive churches . ergo , it was for the general gift of the spirit . ergo , not for the extraordinary gifts only . nor doth that text , deut. 34. 9. alledged by the searchers , prove the contrary ; for it is not only said , that ioshua was full of the spirit of wised●me , for moses had laid his hands on him , &c. which seems to be no more , then what timothy received by the laying on of pau●'s hands ( viz. ) the spirit of — a sound minde or judgement , which may be received where the miraculous gifts of the spirit are wanting . doubtless , it may be said without boasting , that some christians in these days , are so endewed with the spirit of god ( at least in comparison of many of the lords servants ) that , they are full of the spirit of wisedom ; yet the searchers will not say , they are full of the miraculous gifts of the spirit : seeing they have told us ( though very untruly ) that the end of laying on of hands , acts 8. acts 19. is ceased , or not attainable ; which they conceive was only the miraculous gifts of the spirit . which conceit of theirs is the more prodigious , when we consider that some of them did lately submit to laying on of hands , with prayer to god. but i marvail with what conscience , if indeed he was of this minde , that the end of that service was not attainable . it is worthy consideration , that there was a church at ephesus , long before paul laid hands on those certain disciples , which he found there , at his second comming to that city . acts 18. 19 , 20 , 26 , 27. so that the word of god had been confirmed there for many years ; priscilla and aquilla having been left there , who taught such as were ignorant , the way of the lord more perfectly . apollos also , mightily convinced the jews by the scriptures , that jesus was the christ ; we cannot now reasonably think , that paul would settle those certain disciples acts 19. in a church distinct from the church at ephesus already , much less in a way or practise contradistinct from the church ; and if not , then it follows , that the church at ephesus were also in the practise of prayer , with the laying on of hands , as well as those certain disciples , who were now to be laid into the building with the rest ; which yet is the more considerable , if we note that passage in ephesians 1. 13. which was spoken of the whole church at ephesus , and shews plainly , that they had received the holy ghost or spirit of promise , after they believed the gospel of their salvation ; which fully agree with the order , wherein the certain disciples also received the spirit . and here let us not omit that passage , acts 22. 10. & 9. 17. whence it is observable , that paul , the elect v●ssel , must be sent to damaseus , to be taught the principles or rudiments of religion by * ananias , and particularly in the doctrine of baptism , and laying on of hands for the gift of the holy ghost , not only in repect of the miraculous gifts of tongues , &c. ( for it is a doubt ( among christians ) whether he spake with tongues , by vertue of any proper gift ) or by means of his education . ) but the spirit of love , power , and of a second mind , which he affirms god had given him , 2 tim. 1. 7. and though it is true , there was some variaiton in the order of things in paul's case ; that is no prejudice to the truth in general , there being an emergency which might occasion it , and a special allowance from heaven for it at that time . nor may this variation be a president for us , to vary in things of this nature , having no such occasion for it , any more than the israelites eating the passover , without being cleansed , according to the purification of the sanctuary ; when an emergency called for it , and the lord allowed it , gave them ground to do so again , when there was neither the one nor the other ; nor is it material against ought that we have said , that ananias was no officer in the church , and therefore imposed hands on paul by vertue of his gift only . for unless we imagine the church to have greater power than god , we cannot deny ananias to have authority , for all that he said and did to saul . seeing he had immediate mission from heaven , which is equivolent to the churches mission at least ; nor is it ●easonable to think , that power to act in gospel ordinances , is so tied to the church , as that god may not anticipate that order when it pleaseth him . and as this chosen vessel was taught the ●udiments of christianity , so he instructed others in the same , as we have seen in part , and may see yet further , in his writing to ●imothy ; who being under some fears and ●emptations , he labours to comfort him , from the consideration of the spirit which god had given him ; which was the spirit of love , power , and of a sound mind , which he reminds him of , by mentioning the means used for obtaining it , which was the putting on of paul's hands . see and consider , 2 tim. 1. 4 , 5 , 6 , 7 , 8. we are now come to the great charter of the church , for this point of faith ; i mean , ●hat epistle which paul wrote unto the hebrew church ; who , as he himself had learned and taught others , concerning the laying on of hands , as we have seen before , so he ●uts the first of gospel churches in mind , of that which they ( who were to be as a standard to the rest ) had been taught , in respect of their principles as christians . heb. 5. ●2 . and particularly , concerning laying on of hands , heb. 6. 2. concerning which particular , as i shall have too much occasion to note the differing opinions among the baptized congregations , so i shall first set down those things wherein they do generally agree , or rather , that which is granted by the searchers . and first , they grant , that the doctrine of the holy ghost ( i suppose they mean the promise of the holy ghost ) was frequently taught as a principle of the christian faith ; and they give us no reason , why it ought not with like frequency to be taught , as a principle of the same faith now . secondly they grant , that that laying on of hands , heb. 6. 2. is a principle of the doctrine of christ , and a part of the foundation * . now , either they must grant that these two , to wit , the promise of the spirit , and laying on of hands , with prayer to obtain it , makes but one principle of christianity , or else they fall into that which they condemn ; viz. the making seven principles . but to say the truth , they seem to make these two to be but one ; yet so , as that they would destroy the practick part . for they demand , whether laying on of hands , heb. 6. 2. may not be figuratively understood , for the holy spirit which was given thereby ? but the answer is easie , and tells them plainly , that ●his is the way to have such a figurative foun●ation , as babes in christ could never under●tand ; and then will come in a figurative bap●ism only . yea a figurative resurrection too , ●ould creep into the church , at the heels of ●he other figures ; till at last , the truth of all ●he principles would stand only for a cyber . but the instance , which the searchers bring ●o strengthen this their figurative interpreta●ion , very providentially overthrows it . for , ●hough the cup is taken for the wine , and the ●read and wine , for the body and blood of christ ; ●et we know that the sign , and thing signi●●ed , do both remain ; for the use and com●●rt of the church ; and why then should ●rayer , with the laying on of hands ( which 〈◊〉 the sign ) be made void by the promise of ●he spirit , which is the substance . these ●hings premised , the searchers twenty fifth ●emand , and the discourse thereon depending 〈◊〉 discerned to be frivolous . because whatso●ver they are pleased to write , it is certainly ●nown that their opinion is contrary to that wri●●ng . otherwise it were easie to shew , not only the novelty of their conceit in the said question , but the vanity of such an interpretation of the word foundation , as th●re they bring , might be discovered . for evident it is , that the same which is called , the first principles of the oracles of god , and milk for babes , vers . 12. is called the principles of the doctrine of christ [ which pertain to the beginning of christian men ] which now the author would intermit ; and the foundation , which he would not lay again ; which foundation when he comes to set down in its parts ; which principles , when he comes to enumerate , are thus set forth ; of repentance from dead works , and of faith towards god. of the doctrine of baptism , and of laying on of hands . of the resurrection of the dead , and of eternal judgement . and what though it be said , that other foundations can no man lay , than that which is already laid , which is jesus christ ; doth this prejudice that use of the word foundation , he● . 6. 1. not at all . or at least not any more than the church , being called christ , 1 cor. 12. 12. and the pillar and ground [ or foundation ] of the truth ; 1 tim. 3. 15. doth prejudice the son of god , his being called christ , or the foundation . and are not the prophets and apostles called the foundation ; ephes . 2. 20. of which christ in the same place is said to be the corner stone ? and yet surely christians of ordinary capacity do understand , that these sayings do not contradict , but agree very well with that saying of paul , other foundation can no m●n lay , &c. so long as christ is held to be the head , the all , and in all , to the church of god. but sith the searchers do grant ( and say to my knowledge , that they did ever grant ) that laying on of hands , heb. 6. 2. to be a principle of the doctrine of christ , and a part of the foundation ; which i take to be a good b●sis for a happy composure of our unhappy d●fference ; it remaineth , that the only ( or chief ) point of difference lyeth in this , what laying on of hands it is , that is called a part of the foundation , heb. 6. 2 ? whether laying on of hands with prayer , for the spirit of promise ; or some other kinde of laying on of hands . we affirm the first , they imagine the latter . but now , ask them what laying on of hands they will assign to be meant , heb. 6. 2. and then , they either answer nothing at all , or else so flatly contradictorily one to another , or with such hesitation in themselves , as it is to be admired ; but more to be lamented , that such leaders in israel ( as they pass for ; and to give them their due , might well pass for such , if , &c. ) should not be able to digest the milk which babes must feed upon , nor can they assign to babes their portion therein . but instead of milk , they sometimes set before them strong meat , even that imposition of hands which pertains to bishops in the church ; and this as one of the babes principles , which is far from being fit nutriment for them . and now that the searchers may sufficiently shew themselves to be in the dark , about that laying on of hands which they confess to be a principle , &c. they number up six or seven sorts of laying on of hands , and then puts it to the question , which of all these laying on of hands is intended heb. 6. 2. and is that which we call a doctrin● of christ ? by which unwary demand , no doubt they have led many a simple meaning christian into a maze , and there left him ; nor can they possibly give him relief , sith they cannot extricate themselves from the same meander ; and as an addition to their folly , they demand , that seeing divers men are differently perswaded , concerning that laying on of hands , heb. 6. 2. whether this be not a sufficient ground for them to doubt , whether that laying on of hands practised by us be instituted by god ? which if it be , then they have sufficient ground , to doubt of all things which they ( as well as we ) do hold for gods institutions ; for certainly divers men are ( notwithstanding their interest ) diversly perswaded of most places of scripture , on which they ground their faith and practise . but to leave them in this mist , till they being weary , shall desire to return to the lord in this part of his will ; i shall endeavour to shew plainly , what laying on of hands it is , which is called a principle of christs doctrine , and a part of the foundation . and though the searchers are pleased to trouble their readers , with a large enumeration of layings on of hands ; yet they seem at last to be content , that , that laying on of hands heb. 6. 2. should be one out of two ; namely , either that which was for healing the sick , or else that which was for the extraordinary gifts of the spirit : but they rather incline to the first , and as for the latter , we have shewed there is no such thing , nor ever was ; being a thing out of the reach of mans understanding to whom such gifts do belong , and consequently they know not on whom to impose their hands . that the laying on of hands , heb. 6. 2. should be that on the sick is no way congruous to truth or reason . for , how should this be one of the first principles of the oracles of god , and milk for babes ; seeing it is more blessed to believe without a miracle , than with one , ( but it is not more blessed to be without a principle of christs doctrine , than to have it ) and those who would not believe unless they saw them , are upbraided for the hardness of their hearts . certain it is , that that laying on of hands to heal the sick , if necessary , yet is prerequisite to faith , signs being for them which do not believe ; and not for them that do . but the laying on of hands , heb. 6. 2. is subsequent to faith , yea it follows baptism ; and that as it is a principle of the oracles of god , therefore it cannot be that which was for the working of miracles . again , laying on of hands on the sick , is most proper ( if not only proper ) for those that are without , and therefore not milk for babes in the church , and consequently not that laying on of hands , heb. 6. 2. as for sick persons in the church of god , they are not bid to have hands laid on them , but are bid to send for the elders of the church , that they may pray over them , anointing them with oil in the name of the lord , &c. and they have a promise , that the prayer of faith shall save the sick . and what though the healing of the woman , luke 3. 17. and the diseased people of the island , acts 28. 9 , 10. may be teaching to all , yet this doth not prove , that it is a principle appertaining to the beginning of a christian and to follow his baptism . nor do i see , that it is properly teaching to a believer as such ; for what doth it add to the faith of a christian , who believeth already , that christ hath one far greater things than the healing of a disease ? for he believeth , that he hath overcome death , and brought life and immortality to light , by the gospel . indeed , to those that doubt whether christ be the son of god , such a sight may be some way convincing to them . but still this is for the begetting of faith , and so not the fourth principle of a christian . we see then , that laying on of hands on persons which are without , to work miracles , can with no shew of truth , be said to be that laying on of hands he● . 6. 2. especially if we consider , how it is joyned with the casting out of devils , mark 16. 17. which is therefore a further evidence , that it is not in any wise to be recounted as milk for babes , in the church of christ . i will end this point , with an argument from our brethrens opinion ; which is , that laying on of hands for working miracles is ceased ; whence i argue , all the principles of christs doctrine do remain , of which principles , laying on of hands is one . but laying on of hands for working miracles ( say our brethren ) is ceased ; ergo , laying on of hands for working miracles , is not that which is called a principle of the doctrine of christ . ergo , laying on of hands to heal the sick , is not that which is called a principle of the doctrine of christ . that the laying on of hands , acts 8. acts 19. is the very same that is mentioned , heb. 6. 2. appeareth thus , that in heb. 6 ▪ 2. is a principle of the doctrine of christ , a part of the foundation . but why so ? not simply as a bare ceremony , or act done by man ; but rather in respect of some divine thing signified , and obtainable , in the religious observation of it , as the proper undoubted end of that service , and that for babes in christ . that laying on of hands acts 8. acts 19. doth agree with these considerations , being dispensed to babes in christ , religiously performed with prayer to god ; and signified a spiritual benediction , and was useful for the obtaining of it , even the spirit of promise ; and was therefore fundamental to their christian state . again , that laying on of hands heb. 6 2. doth immediately follow baptism , as its proper place ; and so doth that laying on of hands , acts 8. and acts 19. which cannot be said of any other laying on of hands whatsoever . the due consideration of the place of this laying on of hands , is very material for our information , what particular laying on of hands , is intended heb. 6. 2. yea , it is necessary in any case , that the order of the truths of christ be maintained , otherwise we shall be very preposterous in religion ; let us then reflect upon that order , in which the principles of christianity are proposed to us , heb. 6. 1 , 2. here that faith which justifieth , must needs follow brokenness of heart , as not only scripture , but christians experience doth witness . and the promise of the holy spirit doth follow the baptism of repentance , for remission of sins , acts 2. 38. and so doth the means which god hath provided for the obtaining that gift or promise ; and so doth the resurrection precede the eternal judgement . nor can i imagine how our dissenting brethren can satisfie their consciences , touching the place of that laying on of hands , which they imagine to be a principle of christs doctrine . for let those that say , it is laying on of hands upon the sick , tell me where they will place it in the order of their principles ; and why it may not as well precede faith , as follow baptism ? and how can those that will have it to be laying on of hands on officers , make it the fourth principle , or fundamental to christianity , sith in reason the church must be founded , before she ordain her officers . as for those which say , the laying on of hands heb. 6. 2. is wicked mens laying wicked hands on the saints , i say a more prodigious dream was scarce ever heard of : for how can that be the fourth principle of christs , which neither he , nor none by his appointment , ever taught at all . and though it is true he speaks of such a thing , and fore-tels it , yet that proves it not his doctrine , for then it will follow , that judas his treason , and all the impious acts fore-told in the scripture , are the doctrines of christ . nor shall we intermit doctor hammond's conceit , as if the laying on of hands , he● . 6. 2. should belong to those who fall after baptism ; which conceit our brethren do seem very highly to approve of ; as if any thing but truth in this case were acceptable to them , though it overthrow their own opinion . for whiles they lean to the doctor , they have quite forgotten , that laying on of hands , heb. 6. 2. is a principle of christs doctrine , and a part of the foundation ; yea milk for babes in christ . but what shall we say , do none attain to all the principles , nor to every part of the foundation , but such as fall after baptism ? again , are they only babes which fall so , as to need the indulgence of reconciliarion ; or do not sometimes strong men fall , when babes hold on their way ? it is not forgotten , that the chief author of this search , did so fall , as to need the indulgence of reconciliation ; from whence i conclude , that he either is a babe , or else strong men may fall ; if the latter , then i further conclude , that if there be any such laying on of hands as the doctor supposes ; but proves not ( though our brethren unwarily say that he doth ) yet it cannot be that which is mentioned , he● . 6. 2. for the reasons aforesaid . as also , for that it would follow from this conceit , that one and the same person , must have hands imposed on him 70 times and seven , if he fall so often after his baptism , and require the indulgence of reconciliation . i doubt not , but that our dissenting brethren would easily grant , that the laying on of hands , heb. 6. 2. is the very same that is mentioned , acts 8. acts 19. provided we did not urge the continuance of the practice in the church of god. but then i would know , how we can rightly own that principle , if we destroy the practick part ? and here let me seriously ask our brethren , what manner of instruction they give young disciples , concerning this matter ? or how they principle them in it , or build them upon it ? their conscience is witness , ( i speak what i know , for i also was as they are ) that they either wholly pass by that principle in silence , not instructing them at all concerning it ; or else , if any thing be said about it ; it is rather to make the matter doubtful , than to clear their understandings in it . and indeed it 's impossible they should do otherwise ( as the case stands ) for seeing they know not what it is , are therefore such ( i speak it confidently , yet i trust humbly ) as ( notwithstanding their largeness in the knowledge of many things ) have need to be taught this principle of the oracles of god. let it not offend them , though i plainly tell them , that in this point of faith , they are too much like the athenians in another case , for as they by their inscription to the unknown god , declared plainly , that they ignorantly worshipped him whom they know not ; even so our brethren , whiles they grant ( and all men must grant ) laying on of hands , heb. 6. 2. to be a principle of christs doctrine , and yet cannot determine what laying on of hands that is ; they do little less than subscribe , to the unknown principle ; or the vnkown part of the fovndation . if otherwise , let them determine positively concerning this principle , what it is ; and let their diligence appear , in teaching it ; together with the rest of the principles : which yet ( to use their own dialect ) i despair ever to see them perform either the one , or the other ; at least , so long as they carry themselves towards those who shew them that which they so ignorantly pretend to own , so much like the athenians , as to account of those to be setters forth of strange principles , as they accounted paul , a letter forth of strange gods . and though you ( as they ) seem to be very desirous to hear what in this case we have to say ; yet when we have told you the truth , then , as they thought it a thing incredible , that god should raise the dead ; so you think it incredible , that we should receive any blessing , in the way of prayer with the laying on of hands ; as evidently appears by your demand , in these words . how doth your practise of laying on of hands , agree with theirs , ( meaning the apostles ) acts 8. acts 19. having no such blessing to communicate , as they had ? in which demand , you seem to lye under two very great mistakes ; as first , that the apostles had the blessing of the gifts of the spirit , to communicate to others ; as if , they could give the gift of prophesie , tongues , miracle , & c ! secondly , that on whomsoever they laid their hands , the same received such a blessing ; to wit , the miraculous gifts of the spirit . which blinde conceits you never learned of simon peter , for they are the errours of simon magus , acts 8. whose blindness was rebuked by peter , affirming , that that blessing was the gift of god. yea , it is written , and the scripture cannot be broken , that every-good gift , and every perfect gift , is from above , and cometh down from the father of lights , &c. yea the spirit it self is free , blowing where it listeth , and is therefore not to be communicated by any man whatsoever . we conclude therefore , that the apostles had no blessing to communicate to those , on whom they laid their hands ; but could only beg it at the hands of god , as the very words of the text doth shew , acts 8. they prayed for them that they might receive the holy ghost , not that they might receive the gift of tongues , miracles , &c. but only that they might receive the holy ghost . from the text thus considered , i argue ; he did communicate the blessing only , to whom the prayer was made for it . but the prayer was only made to god , therefore he only did communicate the blessing . again , they that beg a blessing for themselves , or for others , do not communicate that blessing to themselves , or to others ; but , the apostles did only beg the blessing of the spirit , &c. therefore they did not communicate it , &c. let it further be considered , that if that which they ask be obtainable , and obtained by those that now wait upon god in prayer , with the laying on of hands , then our practise doth agree very well with theirs ; now what did they ask ? the gift of tongues ? &c. no , they only asked the holy ghost , and surely the holy ghost is now attainable and attained , even there , where tongues are not attained ; otherwise it will follow , that the greater part of the saints in the primitive times , as well as the saints in these dayes , have not received the holy ghost ; which is not only foolish , but very pernicious to imagine . for acts 13. 32. its said , the disciples were filled with ●oy , and with the holy ghost ; and the church is exhorted to be filled with the spirit . all which may be attained to now , although the miraculous gifts of the spirit be not attained , nor indeed are they necessary in order thereunto ; as the places last quoted do shew . now that there is an agreement between the laying on of hands , acts 8. acts 19. heb. 6. 2. and that which we practise , will further appear by this parallel : the apostles performed laying on of hands , with prayer to the lord , and so do we ; they performed this service on disciples , as such , whether male or female , and so do we ; it was practised by them in order to the receiving the holy ghost , and so it is by us ; they placed laying on of hands , in the fourth place of christian principles , and so do we ; they asked not tongues , and miraculous gifts , no more do we : the effects of that service depended not on them , no more it doth on us ; but that was according to the will of the father then , and so it is to us . justly might we return our brethrens demand upon themselves , in their practises of prayer and preaching , when we consider how god gave the spirit in the likeness of fiery tongues , to the hundred and twenty disciples , who prayed with one accord , in one place : the like to which effect , never followed the most serious prayer , that ever proceeded from our brethren . must we then conclude , that there is no agreement between their prayer , and the prayer of the church in those dayes ? this is the way to make void the the wayes of god , unless he give us the like effect at all times , which he ever gave to any , at any time . the like may be said of preaching ; for when peter preached , acts 10. the holy ghost fell on all that heard the word , so as that they spake with tongues . would it not be absurd now to say , that peter did communicate the blessing of tongues here ? and thence to conclude , that none may preach unless they have the blessing of tongues to communicate to those to whom they preach . nor may we say , that the like effect did alwayes follow the preaching of peter himself ; no nor his laying on of hands neither . for there is no mention that those disciples at samaria received the gift of tongues ; but only that they reeeived the holy ghost : for we have shewed , that the holy ghost may be received so , as that persons may be known , and said by others to be full of the holy ghost , and yet the miraculous gifts of the spirit may be absent . nor is it to be doubted , but that simon magus had hands imposed on him , in common with the rest , sith he was a believer , and baptized , and shewed as much zeal as the rest ( if not more ) for it s said he continued with philip , and wondered , beholding the miracles which were done , &c. nor was the deceit of his heart perceived , till after the service of laying on of hands was performed , acts 8. and yet certainly his receivings in respect of spiritual blessings , was not so great , but that it may be safely presumed , that many christians in these dayes , do receive the holy ghost as much as simon m●gus did . and though peter said to him , thou hast no part or lot in this matter , yet the words [ this matter ] cannot refer to simons desire of subjection to laying on of hands ; but to his ambitious and avaritious desire , to be a minister to dispence that ordinance to others , for carnal advantage . and whereas it is much doubted , whether laying on of hands , was ever taught or commanded by authority from heaven , me thinks this should not be hard to be understood . unless we can be so void of reason , as to dream that peter and john , when they came among the disciples , went preposterously , from person to person , praying and putting their hands upon them , and that without telling them what they meant by it . which to do ▪ were enough to amaze the spectators , and i● contrary to the glory and gravity of gospel performances ; which as they must be acts ( o● subjections ) of faith , if they do please god so the faith of such acts ( or subjections ) mus● come by hearing , with understanding wha● they must do , or to what they must submit , and to what end . and this hearing must be from the word of god , else there i● no ground for faith , or practice in matter of religion , so as to please god. but go● was well pleased with the apostles acting , an● the samaritans submission , in the case of prayer with laying on of hands , and bore witness from heaven that he approved it ; therefore their obedience was of faith ; therefore they heard with understanding , that what they did was their duty ; & therefore the lord taught them both concerning the duty , and the end thereof . that the apostles should practise with such frequency , this service of prayer with the laying on of hands , upon disciples generally ; that it should be recorded among the chief of their acts , in promoting the gospel , and setling of churches , that it should be placed among the principles of religion , and all this without authority from heaven , is unworthy the followers of christ or his apostles to imagine . but forasmuch as divers have laboured to satisfie the contrary minded in this point , whose works are extant & unanswered , i shall not insist farther ; save that i do briefly shew that our brethren , are not consistent with themselves in this particular . for they do that themselves , which they will not allow themselves to do ; for they practice laying on of hands on officers , for which there is as little by way of precept as for the laying hands on disciples , or rather less . for since they do now acquit that text , 1 tim. 5. 22. as not having any thing to do with the business of ordination ; and to strengthen a contrary interpretation , do bring the suffrages of dr. hammond , victor , cyprian , and the council of carthage ; sure i am they have no text which hath so much as the face of a precept [ i mean in so many words ] for laying hands upon officers ; although it is beyond doubt with me , that that way was ordained of god , to depute his servants in the ministery , to their works respectively ; wherefore i will conclude this discourse , with this enthememe . there is sufficient ground in scripture for laying on of hands on officers in the church . ergo , there is sufficient ground in scripture for laying hands on members of the church . and whereas our brethren do make a shew ( by their actions out of some ancient authors , as well as modern ) as if antiquity were on their part in this controversie ; i will therefore put in something by way of evidence to the contrary , as i finde them ; partly from the authors themselves , and partly from such as have gathered certain sentences out of the works of the ancients concerning this matter . tertullian to this effect ; that like as in baptism the flesh is washed , that the soul may be made clean ; so in laying on of hands the flesh is overshadowed , that the soul may be illuminated by the holy spirit . in the constitutions of clemens , there is said to be this passage , viz. we must all hasten to be born again to god ( meaning by baptism ) and at length to be signed by the bishop , that is , to receive the seven fold grace of the spirit , otherwise a person cannot perfectly be a christian , if carelesly and willingly ( and not of necessity ) he remain without it . cyprian , speaking of the samaritans receiving the holy ghost , by laying on of hands ; saith — — which also is done with us , that they which are baptized in the church , must be presented to those who are set over the church , that by prayer and laying on of hands , may obtain the holy ghost . jerom ( according to andreas willet ) touching laying on of hands , hath these words ; viz. it hath ever been the custom of the church . eusebius , hath a passage concerning novatus ( who lived about the middle of the third century ) how he slighted the imposition of hands ; these are his words ( after mention made of his being baptized , he saith ) he obtained not — — that which he sh●uld have done , according to the canon ( or rule ) of the church ; to wit , confirmation by the hands of the bishop . insomuch then he obtained not that , how came he by the holy ghost ? see also to the same effect , the seventh book of eusebius , c. 2. for modern writers , erasmus ( in my opinion ) as he is most clear without mixture in most of his expositions , and particularly in this point he is most clear . these are his words upon the principles , heb. 6. 1 , 2. the first degree unto christianity , is to be repentant of our former life , and to forsake sin ; next of all it is required , that we be taught that true innocency , and soul-health , is to be hoped for of god : then forthwith , that we be purged by holy baptism , from the filthiness of our sins , and rest●red again to the state of innocency : then that we receive the holy ghost , by laying on of hands ; and believe the resurrection of the dead to come ; and also that last judgement , that shall award some to eternal felicity , and other some , to everlasting pains and damnation . diodate hath these words ; laying on of hands , was a ceremony joyned to baptism , for a sign of blessing and consecration to god. and he calls these principles , the first grounds of christian catechism , and the heads of christian doctrine . as in baptism , the outward ministery or mystical washing doth regenerate , wash away sins , cleanse and purge us from our filthiness ; so doth the imsition or laying on of hands , give us the gift of the holy ghost : but the outward and mystical washing , doth onely represent unto us , that in christs bloud our sins are clean washed away , &c. from these testimonies it appeareth , that what the churches of christ now contend for , touching the practice , and the subjects , and the end of prayer , with laying on of hands , is no novel thing ; but as the institution of that ordinance is found in holy writ ( as we have shewed ) so it hath continued in use as necessary , in place , the next to holy baptism , among christians generally . an appendix . meeting lately with a very worthy brother , at east haddon in the county of northampton ; he did much importune me , to admit of a short dispute with him about the principle under consideration ; to whom i consent , and he laid down this assertion . that laying on of hands , heb. 6. 2. is not a foundation principle , nor a practical duty . against which i laid down this position : viz. laying on of hands heb. 6. 2. is a principle of the doctrine of christ , to be practised by his people , and a part of the foundation there mentioned : which my opposite did wholly deny . it was argued that i should be opponent , whereupon i offered this argument . arg. 1. opponent . the word principles , heb. 6. 1. being of the plural number , is refer'd to all these particulars ; namely , repentance , faith , baptisms , laying on of hands , the resurrection of the dead , and the eternal judgement . ergo , laying on of hands , heb. 6. 2. is a principle of the doctrine of christ . respondent . you ought not to prove it a principle by that text. opponent . my position is not the text , therefore i may prove it by this text. respondent . the text about which we d●ffer will not prove it . opponent . if any scripture will prove it , it is sufficient ; and therefore answer to the argument . either distinguish , or deny the antecedent or consequence . respondent . i will prove that laying on of hands , heb. 6. is no foundation principle , thus . — opponent . sir , you would by no means be opponent , when i desired you to make good your assertion ; but complain'd , as if i put you upon that which was not your part : why then do you now refuse to answer , and put your self into the place of the opponent , which you know is contrary to rule , sith i am now to prove . respondent . well , i answer by denying the consequence . opponnent . i desire to know whether you grant the antecedent , for your denial of the consequence only , supposeth that you grant the antecedent . respondent . i do grant your antecedent . opponent . then take notice that you grant the first branch of my position , which you denied [ saying , i deny it all ] for that the word principles , heb. 6. 1. refer to all the particulars aforesaid , then to laying on of hands ; and so the consequence will follow . thus you grant as much as i can desire . respondent . i will prove — opponent . brother , you ought not to prove till you be opponent , this you know better than i do . therefore either recal your answer to the antecedent , or confess your errour in denying the first branch of my position . respondent . well , for argument sake , i grant an errour in matter of form . opponent . no brother , your errour is an errour of judgement . first , to deny laying on of hands , heb. 6. 2. to be a principle of the doctrine of christ , and then to grant it ; in one of these you must needs err in judgement . here my respondent was not willing to acknowledge an errour in judgement . and therefore ( as also for divers other pressing occasions that was to be considered , and the time but short ) i put a period to the dispute . and because i had many other things to say , which time would not then permit to be spoken , i will now offer them to consideration ; and that as for other causes , so chiefly for that i hope it may tend to the satisfaction of my honoured brother , and others that are under the same mistake . argument 2. laying on of hands , heb. 6. 2. is a principle of the oracles of god. ergo , laying on of hands , heb. 6. 2. is a principle of the doctrine of christ . the antecedent is manifest , because the same particulars which is called the principles of christs doctrine , heb. 6. is called the principles of the oracles of god , heb. 5. 12. which is evident ; because as the principles of gods oracles , he● . 5. 12. were the things which the hebrew church ought not to have any need to be taught again ; so the principles of the doctrine of christ , heb. 6. 1 , 2. are the things which ( as a foundation ) among them , ought not to need any laying again . argument 3. all those particulars , which in heb. 6. 1 , 2. the apostle saith he would intermit , and so go on to perfection , are the principles of the doctrine of christ : but laying on of hands , heb. 6. 2. is one of the particulars , which the apost●e said , heb. 6. 1. th●t he would intermit . ergo , laying on of hands , heb. 6. 2. is a principle of the d●ctrine of christ . i take this argument to be irrefragable , therefore i proceed to the second branch of the position , which is ; that laying on of hands , heb. 6. 2. ought to be practised by the people of god. but first must explicate the words [ laying on of hands ] which in the understanding of any considering man , must needs signifie an act , and therefore cannot be restrained to the passive ; for as the subject on whom hands is laid , is passive as to the act , ( but not in faith ) so the party imposing of hands is active . and evident it is , that the word [ principle ] heb. 6. 1. refers to the act expressly , and to the passive implicitly , as any considering man may understand : whence i argue , argument 1. seeing the laying on of hands , heb. 6. 2. as it is a principle ( or d●ctrine of christ ( if you please ) is not passive only , but active als● . it must needs be pract●sed , either by the servants of christ , or the servants of sathan ; but laying on of hands , heb. 6. 2. as it is a principle of the doctrine of christ , is not to be practised by the servants of sathan : ergo , laying on of hands , as it is a principle of the doctrine of christ , is to be practised by the servants of christ . the major is plain . the minor surely will not be denied . for who will presume to say , that the principles of christs doctrine ( as such ) are to be practised by the servants of sathan . seeing it is christians ( not the devils vassals ) who as they are once to lay it , so are not to lay again the foundation . as for wicked men , they will persecute the saints again and again , and so christians must have the hands of wicked men laid on them again and again ; and that when they are gone on to perfection , as well as when they begin their profession , so then this laying on of hands , he● . 6. being but once to be laid , cannot be that which the wicked do impose ; sith it s certain as they do it often , so sure it is , they ought not to do it so much as once . again , the laying on of hands by the wicked , to per●●cute the saints , is the doctrine of the devil . ergo , no principle of the d●ctrine of christ . ergo , not that laying on of hands mentioned , heb. 6. 2. argument 2. laying on of hands , heb. 6. 2. was held and practised by the primitive church , as a principle of christs doctrine ; ergo , it ought to be held and practised as a principle of christs doctrine now , by the subsequent churches . the antecedent is proved above , therefore the consequence is indubitable ; which yet i may demonstrate thus . argument 3. none of the principles of christs doctrine ( which were practical ) are abolished , no more then those which are not practical . ergo , laying on of hands as a practical principle , heb. 6. 2. ought now to be practised by the servants of christ . the antecedent cannot be denied , without manifest danger to all the principles of christs doctrine ; for if one be abolished , then why not the rest ? so then the consequence must not be denied . the third branch of my position proved , viz. that the laying on of hands , heb. 6. 2. is a part of the foundation there mentioned . but first , for explication of the word [ foundation ] it is to be considered ; that when it is applied to christianity ; or the church of god ; it may be considered first originally , and in the main , and so christ our lord is only the foundation . or secondly , demonstratively , or in the mean ; and so his doctrine may be said to be the foundation , by an usual manner of speech , when the thing containing or holding forth is taken for the thing contained or held forth . for , whatsoever christ is in himself , certain it is , he is not a foundation to vs . but as he is held forth in his doctrine , heb. 6. 1 , 2 , &c. hence i argue , argument 1. the word foundation , heb. 6. 1. cannot be refer'd to christ , as the foundation of his church , originally , or in the main , or in the highest or most sublime consideration . ergo , the word [ foundation ] is refer'd to the doctrine of christ , in the first , or most easie demonstration ; to wit , the first rudiments , or principles of religion ; even such as babes in christ may know them . the antecedent is true , otherwise what shall we think of paul. would he not teach the christians concerning the knowledge of christ in the more sublime points of christianity ? surely he professes to do this , at the time he wrote to them ; and indeed , how else could he lead them on to perfection ? heb. 5. 11. and 6. 3. so that our consequence is very rational . argument 2. the word foundation , heb. 6. 1. is comprehensive of all these particulars , to wit , faith , repentance , &c. ergo , the word foundation , heb. 6. 1. is comprehensive of laying on of hands , heb. 6. 2. as well as any of the rest . that the antecedent is true , may in part be perceived by the searchers themselves ; for they were more rational than to deny , the word foundation to be meant , of this or that particular only ; and grant it to be meant of the rest . therefore they would have none of the said particulars to be understood by , or comprehended in the word foundation , but restrain it only to christ ; which yet is contrary to their own opinion , sith they have since granted , laying on of hands , heb 6. 2. to be a part of the foundation . the consequence is good , because no reason can be assigned , why the doctrine of baptism should be a part of the foundation there meant , rather than the promise of the holy spirit , with the way of god to seek for it . argument 3. the apostle in heb. 6. 12. describes the foundation in its several parts . but it is irrational in such a description , to intermix two purticulars in the midst of four , th● two first , and two last , being fundamental , an● the two middlemost circumstantial ( or what els● would you have them . ) and yet give us no intimation of any such unsuitable commixtion . ergo , laying on of hands is one part of th● foundation , which is mentioned , heb. 6. 1 , 2. t. g. the second part . of the constitution of a true church . neither are the demands of our brethren , about what truths , the knowledge whereof are necessary to the constitution of a true church , so difficult ; but that we shall give them a direct answer , at least to a larger degree , than what they in that case have assigned ; for they only set down faith , repentance and baptism , with a holy life , &c. omitting not only the fourth principle of christs doctrine , ( though they confess laying on of hands , heb. 6. 2. to be a part of the foundation ) but also they omit the belief of the resurrection , and the eternal judgment . if it should be said that they comprehend the two last principles in that of faith towards god , we must tell them they had better by far have expressed them ; for certainly in this case we cannot be too express , if we express nothing but the truth . but to be plain , it 's justly suspected that they do not make the knowledge or belief of the resurrection and eternal judgment necessary to the essence of a true church ; for if they had , they would some where or other have asserted these truths to be necessary in that behalf ; which they have not done , but rather argued to the contrary , whiles they reason from the state of the church before christs ascension to the state of the church after it , as we shall see more anon . these things premised , i answer directly to their demands , ( in this case ) that the belief and practice ( so far as they are practical ) of all these principles or truths , heb. 6. 1 , 2. are necessary to the right or perfect constitution of a true church , which i thus demonstrate . all the first principles of gods oracles ( from the time they were in being ) are necessary to be known , believed , &c. in the constitution of a true church : ergo , all those trutbs , heb. 6. 1 , 2. are necessary to be known , believed , &c. in the constitution of a true church . the antecedent i prove , because , first principles are either necessary in the constitution of a true church , or not at all . but first principles are necessary ; ergo , they are necessary in the constitution of a true church . this will yet further appear , by considering every principle apart after this manner . 1. if repentance from dead works be not necessary to the constitution or beginning of a true church , no man can shew a reason why it should be necessary at all . 2. if faith towards god be not necessary to the constitution of a true church , then not at all . 3. if baptisms be not necessary to be taught , &c. in the constitution of a true church , then not at all . 4. if laying on of hands for the promised and sealing spirit be not necessary in the constitution of a true church , then not necessary at all . 5,6 . if the knowledge that the dead shall rise again and be judged , be not necessary in the constitution of a true church , then not necessary at all . and therefore i argue further . milk is necessary for babes , or mankind in his first estate ; ergo , all th●se principles , heb. 6. 1 , 2. are necessary to churches in their beginning , or constitution . the antecedent is evident by sense , the consequence is true , because all the principles , heb. 6. 1 , 2. are called milk , heb. 5. 12. and that which pertains to babes in christ , and consequently to the constitution of churches . again , if the principles of religion be not to be taught in the beginning of our christian state , no man can tell the time when these things ought to be taught . for pass but the time of the beginning , plantation , or founding of churches , and let our brethren resolve us concerning the proper time to begin to teach the principles of religion , and particularly , that principle of laying on of hands ? mean while we conclude , that the proper time to instruct men concerning the promise of the spirit , and consequently touching the means to obtain it , is at or about the time of their beginning their christian course , or being made the members of christs body , because every member of that body ought to be vivified by that one spirit , which god hath promised to them that obey him . again , the whole foundation is necessary to the constitution of a true church ; ergo , all the principles , heb 6. are necessary to the constitution of a true church . the anteoedent will never be denyed by any wise builder , for they know the superst●ucture is not like to be secure , if the foundation be defective the consequence is good , because every principle , heb. 6. is a part of the foundation , and so laying on of hands among the rest , as is granted on all sides . nor will our brethrens demands grounded on the state of the church before the ascention of our lord , prejudice ought that we have said , seeing it is evident , that they were not only ignorant of the promise of the spirit , and by what means it should be obtained , but they were plainly ignorant that christ must die for the sins of men , and rise again for their justification , as appears luke 24. 19 , 20 , 21 , 22 , 23 , 24 , 25 , 26 , 27. and he [ that is jesus ] said unto them [ that is his disciples ] what things ? and they said unto him concerning jesus of nazareth , which was a prophet mighty indeed , and word before god , and all the people . and the chief priests and how our rulers delivered him to be condemned to death , and have crucified him ; but we trusted that it had been he that should have delivered israel . and beside all this , to day is the third day since these things were done ; yea , and certain women also of our own company , made us astonished , which were early at the sepulchre , and when they found not his body , they came , saying that they had also sein a vision of angels , which said that he was alive . and certain that was with us went to the sepulcher , and found it even as the women had said , but him they saw not ; then he said [ that is jesus ] unto them , [ that is his disciples ] o fools , and slow of heart , to believe all that the prophets have spoken , ought not christ to have suffered these things . hence these three things are evident . 1. that christs disciples were ignorant that he should work mans deliverance by dying for them . 2. that he should overcome death by rising again from the dead . 3. that christ both reproves their ignorance , and instructs them in the knowledge of the scriptures touching these principles . now let us see what our brethren have gained by quering from the state of the church before , to the state of the church after the ascension of our lord ; surely not an hairs-breadth of proof , that laying on of hands should be dispensed with in the perfect constitution of a true church , any more than that the knowledge of christs dying for our sins , and rising again for our justification , may be dispensed with in like manner . but howsoever it was the pleasure of god to wink at the days of this ignorance , yet surely we know that men are not now under the promise of salvation , unless they confess with the mouth the lord jesus [ that is , not to cry lord lord only , but acknowledge him their lord purchaser , and their lord commander ] and shall believe in their heart that god hath raised him from the dead : whence we conclude , if they be not under the promise of salvation , they are very unfit for church-communion . and here we will take notice of your demand , where the apostles laid hands upon any after they had received the holy ghost ? the ground of this demand seems to be corrupt in two respects ; first , in that it supposeth , that if the end of an ordinance be obtained , the ordinance ceaseth . the contrary to which is evident in the case of baptism , acts 10. 47 , 48. for baptism in the ordinary way of gods communicating the graces of the gospel is antecedent to the reception thereof , & is propounded as a means wherein not only the remission of our sins shall be granted to us , but as a condition whereupon we shall receive the gift of the holy ghost , acts. 2. 38. yet we know the spirit was ( once at least ) given , and received before baptism was dispensed , yea those persons had the chief end of baptism ; for god that knew their hearts did now evidence the remission of their sins , purifyng their hearts by faith , acts 11. yet did not all this in the least make void that solemn ordinance , the baptism of repentance for remission of sins , which was fore-ordained to signifie and sacramentally to confer the grace of the pardon of sin , and the inward washing of the conscience by faith in the bloud of jesus christ . if then the end of an ordinance being obtained , doth not make void the practick part ( during the time that the church is under ordinances ) then who can forbid prayer with the imposition of hands , for the gift of the promised spirit , even for those that have received a measure thereof already , seeing none will say ( i trust ) that they have received so much , but that they are capable of receiving more . again , it is the will of god that there should be no schism in the body , nor confusion in the doctrine or practice of his holy things , 1 cor. 1. 10. rom. 16 17. 1 cor. 14 33. and therefore hath not ordained a divided or confused order in the constitution of his churches , which yet cannot be avoided , if once it be allowed that part of a congregation ( under a pretence that they have the spirit or gift of the holy ghost already ) must be admitted to all manner of priviledges in the church , without any regard had to an ordinance , or principle of the gospel , without the observation whereof , the other part cannot arrive at the priviledge of communion in the same body , without being guilty of the breach of order . a weak sight may perceive whither such a conceit would lead us at last , even into that wilderness whither many are gone , who ( forsooth ) because they have the kernel , to wit , the spirit , they have no need of the shell , to wit , the ordinance of god [ as if that spirit which leads men into disobedience were the holy ghost ] till at length they have so much spirit , that the knowledge of christ crucified without the gates of ierusalem , is of as little esteem with them as his ordinances . the other corrupt ground of this demand seems to be an over-weaning conceit of present receivings , and hath too much of that language , what pr●fit shall we have if we pray unto him ? and seems to border much upon their apprehensions , who concerning holy baptism do thus speak , i am as well as water can make me . not considering that the way of god is strength to the upright ; and that g●d never said to his people seek 〈◊〉 me in vain . the ground therefore of this demand being thus corrupt , we shall leave it without further answer . we shall seriously consider the most impor●ant pinch of a great part of our brethrens demands ; and that is , whether they ought not to be steemed a true church , they being under the pre●●ssion of faith , repentance , and baptism , refol●ing to believe and do further what they shall from ●●me to time understand to be according to the will ● go● ? these latter words ( i confess ) do make a fair shew , yet are as little satisfactory to us with respect to the truth under consideration , as the like resolution would be to them , from such persons of other perswasions as should desire communion with them , only desiring to be born with , in the case of holy baptism , till they see it to be their duty ; though in the mean time , they frequently dispute and write against it , and do more than any other adversaries whatsoever , to weaken the hands of many christians , who religiously observe it , as necessary to the perfect constitution of the church of christ . i say , like as this kind of resolution , would little comfort our brethren , so doth the other as little comfort us , till we see them in good earnest more solicitous for the knowledge of the truth which they see not , than hitherto ( or at least than by this their search ) they have appeared to be . but notwithstanding this , and much more of like nature which might be said , i shall answer this demand with all integrity and ingenuity : and first negatively . that those baptized christians who reject prayer with the laying on of hands , for the spirit o● promise , hath a church-state perfect in principles and orderly in constitution , according to he● . 6. 1 , 2. [ which i take to be a plat-form for the constitution of churches , if there be one in all the new testament ] i say , that our brethren hath such a constitution , or church-state i must plainly deny , and for the grounds of this denyal i dare refer my self ( if not to the consciences of our differing brethren yet ) to the reasons and scripture-evidences preceding : but secondly , that our brethren have a church-state in some good measure according to truth ; i must and do chearfully grant , like as i must grant him to be a man in respect of the genus , who wants an hand , or foot ; as also in respect of that measure of form and proportion which he holds with other men , and yet deny the same person to be a man in respect of the species or parts , which are necessary to the perfect essence , composition and form of a man. or as i may call an edifice by the name of an house , though it want not only much of its compleatness in respect of the superstructure ( as god knows all churches do ) but also though it be somway defective , by reason of the absence of some material part of the foundation , which defect no churches ( but by reason of their wilful want ) need to have ; for though it is certainly true , ●hat we cannot do the things which we would , in going on to perfection ( at least according to the highest import of that expression ) by reason of the manifold obstructions within and without , yet doubtless we may learn all the rudiments or first principles of christianity , maugre the opposition of sathan and all his auxiliaries ; otherwise it will follow that we cannot exceed the stature of babes in christ . and that we may improve our simile ( by which we have explained our selves in answer to the most important of our brethrens demands ) for the defence of the truth under debate . let it be considered , that look how far forth such a necessary member as the hand , &c. doth conduce , not only to the well-being , but even to the very being of the body natural , so far doubtless the least foundation principle of christianity , conduceth not only to the well-being , but to the very being of the church of christ ; and consequently as he that taketh a member from the body natural ( be it hand or other member ) detracteth somewhat from the being of such a body , even so , he that taketh away from the principles or foundation of christianity , doth intrench upon the being of the body mystical . now , that the laying on of hands , heb. 6. 2. is such a principle as is a part of the foundation , &c. is granted by our brethren ( as we have heard ) and therefore we do with good right stand for it , as necessary even to the essence of a church , in such sort as we have even now declared . and , that that very laying on of hands , heb. 6. 1 , 2. is that which we hold it to be , and ●ccordingly do practise , we trust is sufficiently loved before , and that as by other arguments , so also by this ; namely , because no other lay●ng on of hands practised by our brethren , or ●ny body else , can with any shew of truth or reason be called the fourth principle of christs doctrine , or milk for babes in christ . our brethren do seem to be very sensible ●ow that the removal or extirpation of any o●her of the principles , heb. 6. would leave ( if ●ot mortality yet ) a dangerous wound or grie●ous maime in the body of religion ; and ●herefore could they but once humbly consider , ●hey would certainly see that their rooting out ●he fourth principle , is very injurious to the body of that doctrine contain'd in those prin●iples , heb. 6. 1 , 2. were our brethren only wanting in respect ●f the truth we plead for , the case were the more tollerable ; but now , together with their ●eing wanting , they are become the enemies , ●nd greatest opposers of it . it is certainly ( o ●e searchers ) your opposition to the truth which we profess , which is , and ever was the chief cause of our divisions , as is evident by what is to be seen in several congregations , where , they being imbodyed before they saw this truth , yet abstaining from opposition an● contradiction , have very much christian communion , though they d●●●er in their apprehe●sions about the point depending . it is our saviours rule , he that is not against 〈◊〉 is on our part ; whence it will follow , that he is n● on our part who is against us : but then ( our br●thren ) are the men ( and in a manner the on● men ) which are against us in this point ● faith ; and this is it which hath made tw● parties , where indeed there should have be●● but one . you see then brethren , that we lay t●● ground of our non-communion with yo● more upon your opposing the truth we hold , tha● upon your non-submission to it . yea beshre● your late opposition discovered in your late u●seasonable and partial search : for had it n● been for that , we had gained some grou●● ( through the help of god ) of our long dissen●●ons and unhappy distractions . had you ( or at least many of you ) carry●● it humbly and peaceably as men desirous know the truth , it may be easie for you know how dear you had been to us , when y●● consider how much it was upon our hearts , imbrace you in as large a degree of communion we could possible , without violation of our principle● meerly upon consideration of your ( as 〈◊〉 thought ) very christian-like offers in order to peace , viz. that you would not only permit , but desire us to preach up the principle under consideration in your congregations , but also that you would cease your opposition against it . and though it is true , our endeavours for peace went slowly on ( you know the cause ) yet you ought to have had patience , for things which are carryed on with least violence , are commonly most permanent . and here i should have given the reader no further trouble about this particular , but that the searchers are pleased to upbraid , and very strangely to reflect dishonour upon some among us , and upon us all for their sakes , as if we made not only many more fundamentals and essentials to communion , then ever god made ; but that we are so eagerly set upon making every thing fundamentall , as that every circumstantial thing is by us ready to be received into the adoption of fundamentals . but , what the searchers should mean to suggest by their demands , as if we made mixed marriages ; the ●ating of bloud and things strangled : matters of apparel ; and the taking an oath to end strife , the essentials and fundamentals of churches , i cannot so much as imagine , unless it be to make themselves ( as well as their brethren ridiculous in the eyes of their adversaries . however a necessity lyeth upon us to give the reader not only a true account of the received doctrine of the church touching these matters , but also the grounds or reasons thereof ; least otherwise being prejudiced with their strange reflections , their souls should be insnared in these enormities . and first concerning mixed marriages , thus we teach , that it is unlawful ( by the positive 〈◊〉 of god ) for those that are members of the visibl● church of god , to marry with th●se that are no● of that body . and for this we have the consent o● holy scripture , declaring the will of god here in , ever since he chose a people out of the fal● race of adam to be his church . as appears by his revengeful stroke on those his sons , who i● the days of noah took unto themselves wives o● those who were only the daughters of men ; bu● not such as were born from above . gen. 6 ▪ 2 , 6 , 7. to which we will add our sav●ours premonition and prediction , that the si● of the last days will be like their's in the days o● noah , luke ▪ 17. 27 , to 30. and particularly i● the case of marriage ; for it cannot be that ou● saviour in that place should be opposite t● marriage , a● it is instituted of god for man use , no more than he is against eating an● drinking lawfully , but it is the sins of me● committed in these actions respectively , whic● he disalloweth . how much the lord disallowed such marriages in the time of the law is evident , exod. 34. 12 , 13 , 14 , 15 , 16. deut. 7 ▪ 3. 1 king. 11. 1 , 2. neh. 13. and that the same transgression in the time of the gospel ought to be avoided , cannot be denyed , 1 cor. 7. 39. and 10. 8. 2 cor. 6. 14. and that the nature of the sin committed by persons so unlawfully coupled is a carnal pollu●●on ( to say no more ) cannot be withstood , but by such as trust more to their own arguments then to the scripture , seeing the law which forbids members of the church to marry with those that are not , deut. 7. 3. is interpreted of the very act , 1 king. 11. 1 , 2. thou shalt not 〈◊〉 in unto them , &c. and for further light in this matter , read and consider these scriptures , act. 15. 29. mal. 2. 11 , 12. rev. 2. 14. as in this case the scriptures are plain to him that is not perverse , so we have the con●ent of the generality of men professing christianity , both ancient and modern , to o●it the manifold testimonies that might be ●rought , i will only set down two ; the first ●aith thus . marriage is not only grounded on the law of nature and nations , but also on the law of god ; 〈◊〉 it was instituted and commanded by god , and 〈◊〉 by christ vindicated from abuses and corruptions . — in which , regard must be had to religion , that marriage be not made between those of different religions . it is one thing to speak of marriage already made ; and of that which is to be made ; of the former the apostle speaks , 1 cor. 7. but the latter is most severely prohibited , exod. 34. 12. &c. deut. 7. 3. where a reason is rendred taken from the danger of seducing , to which pauls saying agrees , 2 cor. 6. 14. be not unequally yoked with the wicked , or bear not the strange yoke with unbelievers . sad examples we have of the events of such marriages of the first world , gen. 6. of solomon , 1 king. 22. of ahab , 1 king. 21. 15. of jehosaphat , 2 king. 8. of valence the emperour , who by his wife was seduced and drawn to arianism . it is not lawful for catholicks to marry with hereticks or infidels . rhemists testament , in 2 cor. 6. 14. where they also refer to st. jerom. contra jocinian lib. 1. and to the council at ●●aodicea , cap. 10. 31. neither may it be inferred of these things which we have said that persons thus transgressing , must put away their yoke-fellows , no , god forbid that any should so imagine ; for though it is true , god suffered that sin once to be so severely punished , yet he hath no where by any standing law enjoyned such a penalty ; but on the contrary , hath permitted such marriages to continue as have been unlawfully made , as is evident in the case of leah , who was fraudulently given to jacob , by which means rachel the lawful spouse was withheld from her husband . shall mortal man be more just than god ? shall man be more righteous then his maker , job 4. 17. nothing can be said , why the marriage of leah to jacob should stand , that will not as well argue the continuance of the marriages of such as err in the case of their choice as aforesaid , the sin being rather greater in the one , than in the other ; for it was not lawful to marry two sisters ▪ especially not in the life-time of each other . there was also in this act the sin of fornication or adultery . the learned protestants affirm the sin to be adultery . see dr. willet in his hexapla in gen . upon this text. again , poligamy ( or having more wives than one ) was neither according to the insti●ution of marriage , nor warranted by any positive law of god , but is rather against it . and had its rise ( so far as the scripture bears record ) from a wicked man , yet divers such marriages were permitted ( when contracted ) though never commanded , and so never lawful by any appointment of god. when the sin of marrying unlawfully was punished , by separating the persons so coupled , the children also was put away as well as the wives , which howsoever it might stand with the state of the jewish church ( and perhaps was necessary in respect of their terrestrial inheritances , and the policy of their nation ) yet surely it would be great cruelty for men professing christianity , to turn their wives and children out of doors , who both by the law of nature , and nations have as clear a right to all temporal or domestical priviledges now , as the husband himself in any nation whatsoever . finally , sith god hath grievously punished this sin of marrying contrary to his positive laws in that case , provided for his peoples good , chiefly in things pertaining to the worship and service of god , let all christians therefore stand in aw , and sin not , but commune with their own hearts in this behalf , least they provoke the lord to plead against them by his judgments , for his eyes are upon the ways of men ; to render to them the fruit of their doings . chiefly those , who sin presumptuously , for such do reproach the lord , as it is written numb . 15 30 , 31. in the next place , on ching bloud and ●hings strangled , we know the wisdom of god hath forbidden the eating thereof to noah and his sons for ever . and when men had generally forgotten the lord , he severed abraham and his seed to be his heritage , and gave them this law to observe ( among others ) which law he hath established in the churches of the gen●●les in those right needful decrees , which doth declare the repeal of the cerimonial law , and gives continuance to what was generally necessary , upon the delivery whereof the churches were established in that f●ith , by which a man is justifyed , and not by the works of the law. true it is that which g●e●h into the man , defileth not a man , and consequently bloud doth not defile any man by eating thereof . but disobedience which proceedeth from an unlawful desire to that which god hath forbidden , and so cometh out of the man , that defileth a man ; so then , not the fruit which adam did eat , but the sin which he committed defiled him , and the same will defile his posterity , if they covet and take the thing which god hath forbidden . the doctrine of our churches about apparel is this , that the adorning of christians ought not to be that of plating the hair , wearing of gold , nor costly array , with rings and toys , as the humour of phantastick persons in city or country commonly leads them . but that instead thereof , moderation , modesty , and yet decency , according to the state and condition of persons respectively , should be observed on all sides , that so christians might be examples to others , even in these matters . and what though some person or persons in the church be more than ordinary set against the vain fashions of our days , and sometimes lets their zeal go a step too far , is this so offensive to our brethren , that they can no way bear this without such a publick reprehension ? i fear in so doing they may have done the church more disservice , then those whom they inveigh against . what the searchers should mean about these matters being made the ess●ntials of communion , i cannot imagine , unless they would have us to suffer men to sin in these cases without being called upon to reform , and in case of obstinacy to be withdrawn from by the church , as disorderly persons , that they may learn to be ashamed , ( yet we mean not that they should be accounted as enemies , but admonished as brethren ) and surely , if this be their meaning , that offenders in these cases must be let alone in their sins ; we should in so doing loose the order , and in time the essence of churches . for suppose now a gallant of the times should desire to be baptized , and to walk in communion with the searchers , only he tells them they must give him leave to marry out of the church , and allow him the liberty to transgress the apostolical decrees , in eating bloud and things strangled , and meats offered to idols : and therewithall that he may wear gold , and tread the steps of the gallants in matters of apparel , &c. would the searchers now admit such a person into their communion ? if not , then they make these things as necessary to church-communion as we do : and certainly that which is ground sufficient to keep men out of the church , will justifie a church in withdrawing from such , if they refuse to reform . to give evidence by oath , to terminate strife among men , we have not one congregation in england ( that i can hear of ) doth oppose it , ( indeed some particular persons are doubtful in that matter , because of our saviours words , swear not at all ) and therefore it was very unnecessarily put to publick observation , as an essential of our church-communion . what the searchers do suggest against some , as denying that christ took flesh of the virgin mary , is , i confess , a matter of great importance . and sure i am , many of our congregations never heard of such a thing , till the searchers became their informers : nor do i think there is so much as one congregation in england that holds such a thing ( for particulars no man may speak ) however upon this occasion i can do no less then protest against that opinion as a most dangerous conceit ; nothing inferiour to theirs that deny that glorious and blessed person to be god by nature ; for as the one denies his manhood , the other denies his godhead , and so between them we have little left to fix on , for our redemption and salvation . and as i have shewed my dislike to these conceits ( to say no more at present ) so i hold it requisite to protest my faith in this case , as i have been taught , and as i have believed , and as ( i trust ) i shall hold fast unto the end . that faith which i have learned ( and is the faith of our churches generally ) is this , first . that the lord jesus , the saviour of the world is god by nature , and therefore of one substance with the father as touching his godhead . he is called the only begotten of the father . the express image of his fathers person . the true god and eternal life . the lord almighty . it is he by whom the worlds were made . without him nothing was made , which was made . he is that very lord who in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth , and the heavens are the work of his hands . he is the alpha and omega , the first , and the ●●st . he is said to be before all things , and by ●im all things consist . he is the i a m ; who ●eing in the form of god , thought not robbery ●o be equal with god. he is god over all bles●ed forever amen . i conclude then , that he of ●hom these things are spoken , is doubtless god by nature . ● . this lord jesus the saviour of the world is man 〈◊〉 nature . he was made lower then the angels , 〈◊〉 took not on him the nature of angels , but 〈◊〉 seed of abraham he is of one substance with ●is church touching his manhood ; and for ●hat cause he is not ashamed to call them bre●●ren . as they are partakers of flesh and ●loud , he also himself likewise took part of the ●●me . he was made of a woman , raised up 〈◊〉 the fruit of davids loins according to the ●●esh . he is davids son , called frequently a ●an ; and the son of man. he had the pro●erties and infirmities of man in all things , sin ●xcepted . this his birth , growth , manner of life and death do declare . i conclude then , he of whom these things may be said , is man by nature . the short is this . jesus the saviour of the world was before al● things , and he that made all things , therefore he i● god by nature , jesus the saviour of the worl● was born in time , and suffered death , or was slain 〈◊〉 therefore he is man by nature , yet more shortly this jesus is immanuel , or god-man in on● person . the third part. sheweth that our brethrens rejecting and opposing the fourth principle of christs doctrine , enforceth a distinction in communion ( at least in part ) between them , and th● churches which walketh in the religious observatio● of it ; and that all divisions which happen in th● church are not properly , but accidentally again●● her : as also that it is no absurdity to refuse to communicate with a people who may be allowed the appellation of a church . as it must ever be granted that a kingdom divided against it self is brought to desolation : and is very true when apply'd to the church of god , where divisions are as epidemical as in ●ny societies of men whatsoever : so also it must be denyed that all manner of divisions which happen within the pale of the church ●re property against her self . for seeing it cannot be denyed , but that she may be and hath been corrupted divers ways ●●om her first integrity , both in respect of the ●orm and power of godliness , even hence is en●orced , a necessity that ●he be * reformed . where●pon divers worthy men in all ages have laboured 〈◊〉 restore the decayed parts if christianity , as well as to ●oot out such things as ●ave been obtruded by innovation . and surely ●hat was the duty of some , was ( more or less ) ●he duty of all : and consequently the sin of ●●ch as put not their shoulder to the work , ●eh . 3. 5. but much more theirs , who not on●y would not do it themselves , but hinder and ●iscourage them that would . saying in effect , 〈◊〉 the corrupt part of the church of old did in the days of the prophet jer. 44. 16 , 17. as for the word which thou h●st spoken unto us in the name of the lord , we will not hearken unt● thee , but we will certainly do as we have done ; 〈◊〉 and our fathers , &c. putting the mark of antiquity upon their own ways , and the note o● novelty upon the doctrine of the prophet o● god. something like to which is that saying of the searchers where they tell us , they ca● well remember when laying on of hands was no● esteemed a fundamental doctrine , which yet 〈◊〉 have reason to question , when i consider tha● themselves do hold ( and say they ever di● hold ) laying on of hands , he● . 6. to be 〈◊〉 part of the foundation ; and i think non● of its assertors ever had less esteem o● it , then they . neither doth the moderation of its assertors in the point of communion ( which it seems they held with thos● that did not receive that doctrine , for som● time after themselves had owned it ) argue● that those who received ●he doctrine of layin● on of hand , did not esteem it the same whic● now they do . sith reason wills that when an● part of the church of god attains to th● knowledge of any principles of truth , which by the corruption of the times , hath been obscured they should exercise all long-suffering an● forbearance , to see if by any means the contrary minded may be enlightned . but now , if after all endeavours used , and patience extended , some part of the church remain wholly av●r●e to reformation , and that in such weighty matters as the principles of religion , it cannot be reasonable ( nor is it scrip●ural ) * that those whom god hath enlight●ed , should be bound to continue with the ●bstinate in their by-paths ; but must at length ●eclare themselves in manner of speech like ●hat of joshuah , if it seem evil to you to serve 〈◊〉 lord , in this principle of his doctrine , chuse 〈◊〉 what you will do , but as for us we are resolved ●●rein to serve the lord : agreeable whereunto 〈◊〉 that direction of the ●ord to the * remnant ●hat held to the truth with ●heir whole heart , jer. 15. ●9 . let them return to thee , 〈◊〉 return not thou to them . ●hence i note four things , considerable to ●ur present occasion . 1. that the parties here spoken of , were ●oth of the church of god. 2. that there was a difference between ●●em , touching some necessary part of religi●● . 3. that the lord allows this division , and ●●courageth the continuation of it on the part of those that served him perfectly , or according to his word . 4. that the church-state of neither part is ( as yet ) taken wholly away or destroyed ; and therefore hence i infer this conclusion . that in a time of the●● * churches defection in the principles , or any necessary part of religion , there may lawfully be held a distinction in communion , between th● part defective , and that which is sound or reformed , and ye● the church state of neither wholly destroyed . and b● how much the principles 〈◊〉 points of faith are greater or l●sser , by so much thi● distinction is to be maintain'd with greater or les● severity . this i might confirm by the consideration of the state of the jewish church , under thos● great distractions which happen'd among the● sometimes about principles of truth , referring immediately to the majesty of heaven hos . 11. 12. and otherwhiles about those which being neglected , would greatly impair the power o● godliness among men , iud● . 19. 20 chu● . i● which distractions the faithful laboured as i● were in the very fire to reform the part distempered , without destroying their church-state , judg. 20. and 21. chapters , jer. 17. 12. to 17. during which combustions , there must needs be a demur in the point of communion between the parts contending , as may ●asily be gathered from their bitter and sangui●●ry conflicts , if our very reason did not con●ince us . but leaving the many and convincing allega●●ons which might be brought from the state of the jewish church , who were not denyed ●hat appellation , though under such defile●ents as rendred them unfit to celebrate the ●oly rites and mysteries of the law , and ●herefore consequently very unfit for commu●ion with those who withstood their polluti●ns , which may sufficiently satisfie reasonable ●en ( and therefore the searchers themselves ) ●hat it is no absurd thing to grant a pe●ple the ap●ilation of a church , and yet hold them uncapable 〈◊〉 communion with such of the churches or congr●●tions of christ as are free from these corrup●ions . i will descend to those grounds which ●re more familiar to us , and then see how it ●ay reach the case depending between the ●earchers and their brethren . and first from acts 15. 2. it appeareth that ●here was not only great disputation , but dissention also in the primitive churches about matters of doctrine , which word * dissention doth imply the discontinuance o● communion between paul , ba●n●bas , with those which did adhere to them ▪ and that part of the church which were zealous for circumcision and the law ▪ and yet we do not finde that they did one unchurch another , but used the most effectual means tha● might be to put an end to the strife . and very remarkable it is , that though the assembly a● jerusalem did plainly determine the point o● doctrine , yet did they forbear their censure against the persons who erred in that case 〈◊〉 chusing to exercise all longanimity , rather then severity ; knowing that their power was given more for edification● then for destroying any mans attainments in the paths of christianity . howbeit , when this lenity would not effect th● reformation of the ill manners of those corrupters or depravers of the gospel , then di● the apostle lay greater weight upon them , wh● would not cease to trouble the churches , gal. 5. 12. nor is there any reason to doubt but that the judaizers had ( generally ) been held at some distance in point of communion , or privileges in the churches before paul wrote to the gallatians . for seeing that epistle written by paul , si●vanus , and timotheus , did impower the church at thessalonica to note such as dis●beyed it , with a note of di●inction from the rest of the christians who conform'd themselves to its directions ; then doubtless that epistle , acts 15. written in the ●ame of the great assembly at jerusalem , did every way as much impower all churches to put ●he like note of distinction upon all that did not ●hey the same ; which note of distinction , howso●ver it might lie as a bar against their present communion , yet did it not destroy their bre●her-hood , 2 thes . 3. 14 , 15. so that it is further evident , that a people ●ay be esteemed brethren in christ , or a church 〈◊〉 christ , and yet justly be denyed communion ●●th other churches , or brethren in christ . for ●he matter in short lyeth thus . as a brother is 〈◊〉 member , in respect of that congregation or ●hurch to which he is immediately related . ●o , a particular congregation is but a member in respect of the church universal . as therefore a man may be called a christian brother , and yet justly ( for some cause ) be denyed present communion with his fellow brethren ; so , a congregation may be accounted a church of christ , and yet justly be denyed communion by her sister churches , and chiefly when she is such a church as causes divisions and offences , contrary to the doctrine which the primitive churches received from the apostles . all which being considered , may well serve to satisfie our brethren , that we commit no absurdity in refusing to communicate with them , though we grant them the appellation of the church of christ , and brethren in particular as before we have said . having shewed that al● manner of divisions which happen in the church , are not properly against her they being after a sort rather nec●ssary for her reformation , then to bring he● to desolation , when corruption in doctrin● or manners have made in vasions upon he● ( though it must needs be granted that eve● those divisions are accidentally against th● church , and that as for other causes , so chiefly , for that they are a scandal to the world and a stumbling to weak christians . ) it behoveth that we briefly shew what we mean by divisions which are properly against the church , and they are such as these . 1. when both parties contending strive to set up some sinful thing , or their own devices . 2. when they divide about that which is not necessary , but indifferent only . 3. when the point in question is not so much the thing sought for as revenge upon the persons against whom the controversie is held . those and such like tend only to the ruine of churches , having no tendency at all to edification . the first of these shewed it self among the corinthians , when they strove to set up men ; some this man , and others that , and this in opposition one unto another , 1 cor. 1. 12. which folly hath been the overthrow of congregations , where mens persons have been admi●ed , and truth neglected . the second is rebuked , rom. 14. but why dost thou judge thy brother , or set at nought thy brother ? ( meaning for things indifferent ) therefore who art thou that judgest another mans servant ? to his own master he stands or falls , yea he shall be holden up , for god is able to make him stand . the third is detected , gal. 5. 15. for whatsoever the question was , this was their sin , they did bite one another . thus men may hold the truth in unrighteousness , and without charity , preach christ meerely of envy to add thereby some affliction to the bonds of their brethren . those kind of divisions in the ages bordering upon the apostles became the heathens sport ( and the christians shame ) upon their ●pen theaters . let us therefore now return to consider the nature of that distemper which hath befallen our body about the fourth principle of christ his doctrine , heb. 6. 2. the searchers have declared it to be the sin of schism ; and the part distempered to be only the congregations under the practice of laying on of hands , as is evident from the whole contexture of their search , and the directon of the epistle prefixed to it , as if there were nothing amiss in this matter on their part who ( if i may so speak ) have made ( and defended ) a schism in the principles of the doctrine of our lord , and there withall divided themselves from a principle thereof . and this word schism is taken by the searchers not in a mild sense , such as wherein it may be taken by propriety of speech to signifie division in some lower consideration , as the word is translated , 1 cor. 1. 10. but they have hoysed it in their application of it to the congregations , professing the fourth principle to the most extream signification , even that of sedition ; yea to such a degree , as if we unchurched * all churches but our selves . as if it were a light matter to brand all those churches for schismaticks . but they should have considered that bare abstaining from communion , chiefly at the table of the lord ( which is all that hath been done generally , if so much have been done ) and that upon such immergent occasion , as hath ( at least in the time of hot contention ) been given for it , is far from being sufficient to bear them out in this their rash charge against their brethren . seeing our saviour himself puts a bar for coming to the altar , while differences between brother and brother , only remains undecided , which being duly considered , may justly cause the sober christian to be afraid of such a communion as ( i perceive ) the searchers would ( hand ov●r head ) involve us into . now , what hath been done by some particular persons among us in respect of church-rendings , or unchurching other churches through ignorance or preposterus zeal , as i do not perfectly know , so i will not in any wise go about to justifie . but sure i am , it is no good ground for you to asperse all our congregations with such mens actions ; no more then the like preposterous actions by some among you ( for such there hath been , both particular persons and congregations ) will justifie us to fasten the like reproach upon you , which hitherto we have not done , nor intend to take the advantage of your procreation to do it now . and what though there hath been ( during the time of these contentions and oppositions ) a distinction in communion between the congregations aforesaid , held to be needful , at least in some things ( wherein christians communicating one with another , cannot be very comfortable without unity in their doctrine and practice ) yet sure this hath been done ( generally ) without contracting the guilt of schism on either side , in respect of all such as in the midst of all these dissentions , have maintain'd the great engagement of charity towards one another . and for those that have not so done , it s justly feared the guilt hath been as great on the one side , as on the other . this distinction in communion , hath been held ( i presume ) by all wise christians , rather of necessity , then for any delight they have had in it , partly for that the truth in question would otherwise have been slighted as a thing but at most indifferent ; and there is no readier way to destroy any truth , then to let it pass with such an estimation . and partly , for that contention would ever have been rising between members of the same particular community , and no means remaining to pacifie those divisions . for , what pious pastor of the church can justifie his admitting some to the lords table without imbracing ( nay though opposing ) the fourth principle of christianity , and yet with the same breath deny another that liberty ? the truth is , this disparity in judgment and practice must admit of one thing out of two ( at least so long as the spirit of contradiction worketh , ) viz. either that the parties dissenting may sit down in distinct congreations , without the offence or grudging one against another , or else it must admit of dispencing with most of the principles of our religion , one by one till indeed we have none left intire ; as will appear by singling them apart , and yielding to each opinionist the plea which our brethren do use in the case depending , which in effect is this . why should we not sit down at the lords table with you ; seeing we own all the principles of christs doctrine as you do ( which yet i fear , &c. ) except the fourth ? and as touching that , we say and believe , that the laying on of hands in heb. 6. 2. is a principle of christs doctrine , and a part of the founlation ; yet we deny that laying on of hands , which you hold to be that principle . this plea being admitted , a second comes and pleads thus , let us build with you , for we own all the principles of religion , heb. 6. 1,2 . as you do , except that of faith , and yet we say faith is a principle according to heb. 6. 1. but we deny that faith which you say is there meant to be that principle . a third comes and says , we have right to sit down in communion with you , for we do own all the principles , heb. 6. only the doctrine of baptisms which you say is there meant , we deny to be a principle of christs doctrine , and do say that it is your own innovation or tradition , yet we own the doctrine of baptisms . a fourth pretends they own all the principles , &c. only that resurrection of the dead , which we say is a principle of christianity , they term an humane innovation , yet they profess to believe the resurrection . finally , there comes others and professes that they own all the principles of gods oracles , he● . 6. &c. but withall they deny with origen , that eternal judgment which we hold , and say that there shall be an universal salvation ; and yet they own with him a judgment which is eternal . and upon these pretensions they demand the priviledges of christians among us in all things . now admitting laying on of hands ( as we hold ) to be as undoubtedly a principle of christs doctrine , as any of the rest ( as that is our case . ) let our brethren resolve us how we shall dispense with them in rejecting and opposing that principle , and yet do nothing at all to the prejudice of any other principle , or part of the foundation ? certain it is ( as before we have hinted ) there is no artifice of sathan so likely to wear out this or any other truth , as to make it subject to the wills of men , viz. to admit men to the same degree of estimation and fitness for communion in the church , though they deny this truth , as if they owned it . and whilst our brethren are labouring with all their might to bring the fourth principle of christs doctrine to this state of subjection , others are as busily tampering with the doctrine of baptism and have prevailed to the great reproach of those christians who have suffered themselves and the truth to be thus abused . open opposition though too bad , yet is more advantagious to the truth , then such pretended friendship ; for truth being opposed , hath strength and authority to withstand its greatest adversary . but if once subtil men creep into the church under a specious pretense of waiting for the knowledge of such truths as they have a design to overthrow ; these prove the greatest prophaners and subverters of the ways of god in the world . and what devourer shall we be able to keep out ( that hath but craft to get in ) if once this door of dispensing with principles of religion be opened ? assuredly had those persons , acts the 10. ( the remission of whose sins was evidenced from heaven very eminently ) been admitted to communion , without submitting to the baptism of repentance for remission of sin ( as peters question , can any man forbid water , that these should not be baptized , which received the holy ghost ? seems to intimate that some such thought might possibly dart it self into the breasts of some . ) it had certainly made nul● that ordinance almost totally , for who doth not now a-days presently suppose himself to be baptized with the spiri● ? our brethren demand of us , whether those qualifications which gives right to b●ptism , do not give right to the lords table ? the answer is easie , for faith and repentance ( as they say ) gives right to baptism , but not so for the lords table , for though baptism be no qualification for it self , yet it is a very necessary qualification for the lords table . but that we may reach the utmost that can lie in this question , we answer further : and first , by granting that those that are rightly baptized , have thereupon a general right to all the priviledges and holy ordinances in the church of god ; and so to the lords table among the rest : but then secondly , we must distinguish between this general right , and a regular capacity for the immediate participation of these priviledges . the children of ephraim , &c. 2. chron. 30. 18 , 19 , 20. had a right to the passeover in general with the rest of the israelites , because they were circumcised , &c. yet sith they were not cleansed according to the purisication of the sanctuary , they were not in a regular capacity to eat the passeover with the rest of the israelites , therefore hezekiah made supplication for them , and it was permitted in that strait , ( for they could not do what they would because of the shortness of the time ) that they should eat the passeover otherwise then as it was written in the law , but this was an extraordinary case as we have shewed before . again , suppose i know that my brother hath something against me , when i am going to the lords table ; this doth not take away my right from the table of the lord which i have in general with other christians , only now i am not in a regular capacity to participate . and what though those that are baptized according to christs command have right to the lords table as aforesaid , yet may they not be preposterous in taking their right ; for there is an orderly way to partake of our priviledges . and we say and have proved that the next step * or principle in christianity to holy baptism , is , that we wait upon god in prayer with the imposition of hands for the holy spirit of promise . this our brethren do not only neglect , but they oppose it as an humane innovation . upon this , not a brother only , but the church hath something against them , they refuse to be reconciled , unless we allow them in their disobedience , at least so far as to leave undone that which is their duty to do : hence it appeareth , that whatsoever our brethren may say for themselves in respect of their right to the lords table , yet we find that in them , which ●uts them into an incapacity for their imme●iate participation ; at least with those congregations , who religiously observe that order ●herein the truths of god are proposed to be ●bserved . but here peradventure our brethren will ●y , they do not remember that we have ought a●ai●st them in this case ; to which it may be ●●swered , that makes the case never the bet●●r in respect of them that do know their er●our ; no more then my brothers justifying ●imself in his trespass against me , doth lessen his ●espass , which is so far from that , that in truth makes it greater , and there is now a necessity ●●at these two be reconciled before they sit ●●●wn at the lords table together . if yet it should be said , we take for granted the ●●ief thing denyed , viz. that our brethren are ●●fenders in the case depending . the answer first , this objection will help those that 〈◊〉 the baptism of repentance against our ●●ethren , for denying them communion in ●●eir , congregations , as much as it will help 〈◊〉 brethren against us , for though our bre●●ren say they offend in omitting that part of ●hrists doctrine , yet they deny it . 2. though 〈◊〉 brethren will needs suppose the case to be doubtful whether what we hold in the case d●●pending be true or no , it is out of doubt wit● us , and so much the more as by how much ou● brethren labour to raise new doubts and scruples about it , according to that true saying when black is rightly posited with white , then black 's most dark , and white doth shi●● most bright . the searchers insist much upon their offer in order to the accommodating the differen● depending . to which i answer , had they pe●sisted in that candour and condescending temper which lately some of them pretende● to . it is not doubed , but the end might ha●● been happy , provided that their hearts were 〈◊〉 right according to those pretensions . but to 〈◊〉 plain , by all that we can as yet understand , som● of them were more politick than pious in su●● their endeavours , of which let this their sear●● be an evidence to pesterity . for , even when 〈◊〉 were busily endeavouring to answer their co●● descending proposals , with the greatest co●plyance , which with a good conscience 〈◊〉 could , even then comes our brethren forth wi●● a fire-brand of schism and sedition , and claps on the backs of our congregations . 〈◊〉 therewithall arms themselves with the 〈◊〉 clandestine and subtil opposition against the principle under consideration , wherewith they have at any time ( so far as i know ) as yet advanced themselves against it , which yet will make as little for their credit , or the churches comfort , as their former attempts of this kind have done ( unless god whose wisdom can bring good out of evil , turn it to our advantage ) for no weap●n formed against the truth shall prosper . and though it is true there was some unhappy obstructions of our peace before they printed their search , so it is as true that the hypocrisie of some of the searchers was the cause thereof . nor need they make so much of their permitting the countrey elders to preach up laying on of hands among them , when they consider the hot opposition which some of them met with , as soon as they had done . and it s known from some of the most plain-hearted among them , that though we have been desired to preach the doctrine of laying on of hands among them , yet * it is more to please our humours ( which our souls abhor ) then that they have any expectation to see the truth by such preaching . neither is the complaint of our brethren just at this time , how that they , or many of them would have submitted to laying on of hands , did we not prohibit them communion with those , with whom they formerly walked ▪ for they know that what ever hath been , when contention was in the highest about this matter ; yet there hath been as much forbearance that way of late , as could reasonably be desired , and this condescention ( perhaps ) might still have encreased had you as you promised , seaced your opposition against the truth by us professed . but now you have revived the whole controversie , in most of the congregations in england : and therefore as the cause of our division at the first was much on their part , who divided the principles of christianity and themselves from a principle there of , so the revival , and aggravation ( with the prevention of our concurrance at least in many things ) will be found at the door of the searcher , when he searcheth well his own habitation . when we consider pau●s charge to timothy , to withdraw from such as had a form of godliness , denying the power thereof . and his command to the church at thessalonica , to withdraw from every brother that walketh disorderly ; we cannot but dislike the tendency of your 19th . demand , as if it would follow , that because there were some sinfully suffered in some churches of old , who taught gods people to commit fornica●ion , and to eat meats effired to idols , and to hold 〈◊〉 community of women ( a thing so beastly as scarce fit to be named ) therefore we may not withdraw from such churches as suffer such things . now ! when yet its evident that the lord charges those sins so deeply upon those that suffered those abominations , that without speedy repentance their church-state must be removed . but surely our brethren cannot be ignorant that the lord commends such of the churches in asia , as could not bear , but uncharched those that were evil , who said they were jews , and aposties , and were not , but were the synagogue of sathan : and how vehemently ●he reproves those that did not thus separate from such evil workers , whether congregations , or particular members , for sure there is but one law for few or for many in this case . true it is , that god had mercy for great offenders upon repentance , and there must be admoniton before they be spewed out of the mouth . but what will this avail their case , who being intreated and exhorted to turn from the errour of their way , and diligently taught concerning the truth , yet persist in their opposition . the slight exposition which the searchers gives us of 2 john 7. 9. verses , is no more to be commended ( as i conceive ) then their adversaries unwary syllogism from thence : seeing it is not all that confess that jesus christ is come in the flesh , that hath fellowship with the father and the son. for that is the sense of the searchers , or else they must tell us how many of christs doctrines or teachings must be owned as necessary to mens communion with god and christ ; which will puzzle the searchers as much as any body else , their flourishes and reflexions against others notwithstanding . nor need we say much to our brethrens demands , which they ground on a supp●sition of the truth of our opinion , considering what we have said already , for if that we hold b● the truth , it is such a truth as may not be dispensed with or neglected without manifes● danger to the rest of the principles of religion as hath been shewed ; it shall therefore now suffice for the tryal of the consciences of ou● brethren in this matter , that we appeal t● them touching the like service in another case namely , the laying on of hands in the ordination of officers in the church , which some o● them will have to be that principle , heb. 6● though others of them reject that as erroneous , s● that our brethren had lit●le cause to upbraid u● about some differing apprehensions about the end of that ministration , sith themselves are divided both about the end and the principle it self . i say , put case now , that some among you should deny the layng on of hands on officers to be instituted of god , and tell you it is an innovation of man ( to say no worse ) and that you have no command from god for it ; and thereupon they bring all the arguments against you which you devise against us . and not only so , but they carry on all the affairs of the church without any regard had to that orderly way of ordaining men to office by prayer with the laying on of hands . only , because it s your humour to have men so ordained , therefore in condescention to your weakness , and that they may the better bring you off that usage they permit you once , twice or thrice , &c. to preach up such a thing in their congregations . do you now make so little conscience of that laying on of hands which you practice , and that as a part of the foundation ( say some of you ) as that you could maintain a free and chearful communion with such persons ? howsoever you may shuffle in this case , considering the liberty which you encline to in the other , yet surely were you free from that temptation , you would find no small difficulties to hold such communion with those who should not only make void , but even despise ( for 't is no better ) that wholsome and divine order which god hath left for the government of his house . as for general assemblies , which are ordained for general controversies , and which through the blessing of god are the best expedient under the sun , for composing divisions in the churches . here the liberty of christians should be ; yea , must be maintain'd , though they differ right much in their opinions ▪ in matters of religion , and therefore we have ( indeed ) very christianly admitted the searchers to such our assemblies ; knowing well , that not only the christians in the ages bordering upon the primitive , but even the apostles of our lord did allow christians of very different perswasions , freely to deliberate on things propounded in such assemblies . but yet we little thought that our brethren would have abused us in the sight of the world , for this our christian respect towards them , as if we were inconsistant with our principles in such our condescentions , unless we also communicate with them at the lords table . surely this kind of dealing is unlikely to effect the peace and concord of our too much divided congregations . for my part , i could heartily wish that all the congregations of christians in the world that are baptized according to the appointment of christ , math. 28. 19. mark 16. 16. acts ▪ 2. 38. would make one consistory ( at least some times ) to consider of the matters in difference among them . for , if this be not admitted , there is no means under heaven remaining ( as i conceive ) to heal their divisions , and consequently to obtain that peace which should rule in the hearts of all gods people , because they are thereunto called in one ( universal ) body . and herein ( i conceive ) an union in the main may be held , though in our particular communities , for the avoiding ( otherwise inevitable ) inconveniencies , we are constrained to hold some distinctions . for , it is one thing to forsake the church of christ , and another to cease communicating with such a particular congregation , as in the time of reformation , will needs stay behind in the steps of irregularity . the first can be no other than schism , sith there can be no cause to forsake the church of god , though there may be cause to forbear communicating with some particular members or congregations thereof . the other is so far from schism , that it is more truly called reformation , nor doth it follow that because we efuse to communicate with our brethren in rheir irregular proceedings in the matters of religion , that therefore we reject them in those principles of truth which they do religiously observe , and zealously profess : neither is our distinguishing our congregations from theirs , so much a separation from them , as a reformation of our selves , so that the 10. and 11. demands of the searchers might well have been spared , sith as things stand among us , they are not only unnecessary , but i fear may prove very pernicious to the peace of our churches . let me now conclude with a free word to the brethren of both perswasions ; and that is , to beseech you to consider one another as brethren , and not as adversaries , and as brethren to put on charity one towards another ; and chiefly you that are zealous for the principle under debate ; the more you walk in the truth , the more it concerns you to shew forth your works with meekness of wisdom , and to abound in that gift of the spirit which hopeth and believeth all things , which doubtless will teach you to believe this of your brethren in general , that if they saw the truth as you do , they would be nothing less zealous for it then your selves , and consider in the mean time as they are erroneous in our judgments ( and certainly erroneous they are ) so we seem to be to them . and though the consequence of their rejecting one principle of religion , do indeed endanger the rest , yet let us believe , that if they were awar of this , they would abhor such an opinion as doth so prejudice the doctrine of christ . our brethren do err , it is true , but they err with a conscience void of errour , because ( as may be hoped ) they know not that they err . now charity suffereth long , and is kind , is not puffed up against any that zealously serve the lord , though perhaps they err from many of his precepts . charity is not the companion of that excess of indiscreet zeal which abounds in some men , for it knoweth that temperance is as necessary in our zeal , as mercy is in judgment , violent spirits seldom or never doth the church service without disservice ; and let us consider that the truth we stand for , hath no need of our passions to defend it ; no , it s own authority will support it against the strongest opposition , therefore let your moderation appear to all men . to the brethren on the other side , let me thus speak , beware that you despise not your brethren especially you that are men of parts , because you being taken for brethren of high degree , must now if you own the truth which you have opposed , seem to be abased . you that have been instructers of the simple , must now learn of babes , or at least such things as pertains to babes . whereupon if you ask your consciences , i am perswaded you ( or at least some of you ) have met with such reasonings , as once a wise man met with upon an occasion like to this , when he reasoned with his friend after this manner . because others are gone before , is it a shame for us to come after ? or is it not rather a great shame not at all to go after them . aug. confess . l. 8. c 8. and let it be considered how upon the discovery of the right manner of baptizing ( for men had forsaken the way of god both in the subject and manner of that ordinance ) there was found a kind of necessity for christians of ancient standing , as it were to begin again . and yet some then , ( as you now ) was by no means to be prevailed with , but would ( at least ) have the way of baptizing left to every mans liberty ( as you would have the 4th principle ) and now the lord hath pleaded that cause , when no other endeavour could prevail , for those that stumbled at that truth , are in a manner wholly extinct in this nation , whilst those that imbraced it are blessed with great encrease . and what shall befall you if to your disobedience you shall add pertinacity , a little time may determine . by that which hath been said you may perceive ( brethren ) how the case stands betwen us , gladly would we have communion with you in all christian priviledges , but your willful want ( as of some may be feared * ) of one principle of christian religion , and therewithall your endeavours to deprive our churches of it ( as is too evident to be denyed ) puts a stop to that which is so much desired , and how it shall be obtain'd is the business for time to determine , and o that the set time were come . mean while we must leave the searchers , and their search ; our selves , and our sigh , to him that will cause all the churches to know that it is he that searcheth the heart , and tryeth the reins , and will give to every man according as his work shall be . a defence of the offices of apostles ; and of the continuance thereof in the church till the end . for men to strain more at the word apostle , [ as some do at the word bishop ] then at the work or office signified thereby , is no other thing ( as i conceive ) then groundless humility , or hypocritical subtilty ; seeing it is evident that those titles are as lowly as any that can be given to sute with the matter , thereby intended . the first signifying a messenger , or one sent , the other an overseer . wherefore that i may avoid this humour , i will not fear to call old things by their old names , and therefore shall call the officers of the church by the same names which the wisdom of god hath given them , not to make them proud , but rather humbled , and to be as a memento concerning the work , which by their office they stand engaged to do . nor shall we need at this time to say much of the officers of the church generally , but only of the office of apostles , or messengers , & this because some of our brethren do not only doubt ( but endeavour to make others doubtful also , whether god hath given to his church any apostles or messengers to succeed the primitive apostles , as a constant ministery in the church to the end of the world. and albeit , we say that the apostles have successours ( as well as bishops , &c. ) yet our meaning is not that there are any that succeed them in all respects ; for there was in the office of the chief apostles , something ordinary ●nd fixed , and something extraordinary and ●emporary , the latter was , first their immediate ●ission ; * secondly , they ●earned their doctrine ei●her from the sacred lips ●f the lord christ , or by ●●fallible revelation , and were not taught it ●y man , as * timothy and ●ther their successours ●ere , heb. 2. — great sal●ation , which at the first began to be spoken by the lord , and was confirmed to us by them that heard ●im . that which — we have heard , which we have ●●en with our eyes , which we have look'd upon , and our hands have handled of the word of life . — tha● which we have seen and heard declare we unto you 1 john 1. 1 , 5. but i certifie you brethren , th●● the gospel which was preached of me was not afte● man , for i neither receive● it of man , * neither was taught it but by the revelatio● of jesus christ gal. 1. 11. thirdly , they were t● lay a foundation , and t● propose a form of doctrin● for other teachers to buil● on , and to keep as their pattern , and a standard by which to trie others doctrine an● spirits , 1 cor. 3. 10. — as a wise master builde● i have laid the foundation , and another builde● thereon . he that is of god heareth us , he that is n● of god heareth not us , hereby know we the spir●● of truth , and the spirit of errour , 1 john 4. 6. fourthly , they were necessarily endowed wit● * the gift of tongues , m●racles , &c. to demonstra●● that they were sent of god , and that the● doctrine was from heaven , luke 24. 49 ▪ — but tarry ye in the city of jerusalem until 〈◊〉 be endued with power from on high , 2 cor. 12. 1● ▪ truly the signs of an apostle were wrought amo●● you in all patience , in signs and wonders , and migh● deeds . in these and the like respects the apo●●les have no successours , for if they have , then ●ust their words and writings have the like ●orce , and authority , and then we should be ●●ill receiving new oracles , and never know when the whole councel of god was made ●nown to us . now the things which were ordinary and ●ixed , in the apostolical office were such as ●hese , their authority to preach the gospel in ●ll places , at all times , to all persons , as occasi●n and opportunity by gods providence was given to them , mark. 16. 15. preach the gospel 〈◊〉 every creature , math. 28. 19 , 20. teach all nations — and lo i am with you , always even to ●he end of the world ; this work could not be ●ied only to the chief or primitive apostles , ●●th they were to leave the world by death ●ech . 1. 5 , 6. the fathers where are they , and the prophets do they live for ever ? acts 20. 29. i know after my decease grievous wolves shall enter 〈◊〉 . secondly , their unwearied diligence in teaching both the churches and pastours in ●ll the will of god , their care for the well-set●ing and governing the churches , acts 20. 31. therefore watch and remember that by the space of ●hree years i ceased not to warn every one night and ●ay with tears , 2 cor. 11. 28. — that which cometh upon me daily , the care of all the churches , 2 pet 1 ▪ 12 , 13 , 14 , 15. i will not be negligent to put you always in remembrance of these things — yea , i think it meet 〈◊〉 long as i am in this tabernacle to stir you up by putting you in remembrance , moreover i will endeavour that you may be able after my decease to have these things always in remembrance . the rest will i set in order when i come ; and perfect that which is lacking concerning your faith. tit. 1. 5. for this cause left i thee in creet , that thou shouldest set in order the things that are wanting , and ordain elders in every city , as i had appointed thee . 3. their being set for a defence of the gospel against false apostles , phil. 1. 16 , 17. the one preach christ of coniention — supposing to add affliction to my bonds . the other of love , knowing that i am set for the defence of the gospel . fourthly , to strenthen the hands of particular pastours against usurpers , and such as despise the ministers of christ , acts 20. and from meletus he sent to ephesus , and called the elders of the church . and when they were come unto him , he said unto them — of your own selves shall men arise speaking perverse things — therefore watch , &c. 3 john 5. beloved thou dost faithfully whatsoever thou dost to the brethren , and to strangers — i wrote to the church , but diotrephes who loveth to have the pre-eminence among them receiveth us not , wherefore if i come , i will remember his deeds that he doth , prating against us with malicious words , 1 tim. 1. 17. let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour , gal. 4. 17 , 18. they zealously affect you , but not well : yea , they would exclude us , that you might affect them . now that the chief apostles have some to succeed them in the apostleship , as we have affirmed will appear first from the consideration of that commission which our lord gave for the teaching of the nations , or for the preaching the gospel to every creature . secondly , from the duration of those gifts in the church which our lord obtained and gave , by virtue of his ascention . thirdly , from the consideration of the primitive churches , their having such apostles or messengers . fourthly , from the practice of those who most question the necessity of messengers at this day . fifthly , from the state of the world , their necessity to be taught the truth as it is in jesus . and in regard of the danger they lie under by means of false apostles . and first it is evident from math. 28. 19 , 20. and mark 16. 15. that it is the will of god that the nations be taught , and that every creature should have the gospel preached unto them , wherefore it remaineth that we stick to one thing out of three , and that is , either some body in special are bound to preach the gospel to those that are without ; or else that all christians are equally bound to perform this work if capable in respect of gifts , or else that this work ended with the apostles . the last will not be said by any that considers , that the making one branch of that commission , math. 28. and mark 16. void or not obliging or binding to the church now , or any persons in it , is in effect to make the whole commission void , for if none have power by virtue of this commission to teach the nations , how can it be that any hath power from hence to baptize ? both works being commanded as it were in one breath . nor can the church observe all things whatsoever christ commanded his apostles , if they be not to observe this great work to preach the gospel to the world. neither can it rationally be said that this work belongs to every gifted christian alike ; because the imployment of the gospel consists in divers offices , and all such members have not the same office. 2. again , meer gifts do not make men officers ( and that the teaching , math. 28. and the preaching , mark 16. is a preaching not by virtue of gift only , but by authority also cannot be denied ) 1 tim. 1. 18. this charge i commit to son timothy , 1 tim. 6. 20. o ti●othy keep that which is committed to thy trust , ● tim. 2. 2. and the same commit thou to faithful ●en , and let these also first be proved , and then let ●hem use the office of a deacon being found blame●iss , 1 tim. 3. 10. surely if this care must be ●ad , that none use the office of a deacon , but ●pon such proof had of their fitness , it cannot ●e imagined that the greater matters of the go●pel should be taken in hand without the like ●are and circumspection . 3. they that would have this work of reaching to the world , no mans concern , by ●irtue of office , whiles they speak against mes●engers , do make more than any body else , therewise we may well enquire how shall they reach except they be sent ? rom. 10. we con●lude then , if those that preach must be sent ; ●nd if that commission , math. 28. mark 16. be yet in force , then the apostles have some to succeed them in their office apostolical . which is yet more evident by the consideration of those gifts which our lord obtained and gave to his church by virtue of his ascention , eph. 4. 11. and he gave some apostles , and some prophets , and some evangelists , and some pastours , and teachers , for the perfecting the saints for the work of the ministery , for the edyfying of the body of christ . till we all come into the unity of the faith , &c. see 1 cor. 12. 28. it were certainly a very dangerous thing to say that any of these gifts are taken away from the church of god , albeit some of them are perhaps but rarely found , at least in that part of the world which do profess the name of christ ; especially miracles , &c. which yet may not be said to be wholly absent from the churches in these days , and in this nation , of which i could say something , partly from such information as i know to be true , and partly from what i have heard and seen in that behalf . but as touching the gift of offices here repeated , why any of them should be taken away from the church , i see not any ground at all , they being so evidently fixed in the church 〈◊〉 the whole church be compleated ; and the use of these offices respectively , as before we have defined , so needful , that the church would easily find the want of them if indeed they be taken from her as we shall see more anon . and although we said before that the gift of miracles , tongues , &c. was necessary to the office of the chief apostles , and yet was only temporary : and now say the gifts of miracles may not be denyed to have a being or continuance in the church . in this there is no contradiction ; for , the making those gifts temporary ( or but for a time ) as they were necessary to the office of those which first preached the gospel , doth not at all conclude that they are wholly abnegated , or taken away from the church . and when we say that these gifts were necessary to the office of the chief apoostles , our meaning not that miracles was a part of their office , but only a necessary concomicant thereto ; so that though this concomitant should not befound , it is no prejudice to the office considered as we have defined it . we come now to enquire into the order of the primitive churches , who certainly had many apostles beside those that were foundation layers and master-builders , such were andronicus and junia , rom. 16. 7. who are ●●id to he men of note among the apostles ( some conceive they were of the seventy apostles ) then they were , for it were a strange interpretation to say they were noted by the apostles ; it being to wrest the words of paul from their native signification which clearly gives andronicu● and junia , a place among the apostles ; not among the chief apostles , but those that were called the messengers of the churches , and the glory of christ , as such we read of 2 cor. 8. 23. and such in all probability were those , 3 ep. john , who are said to go forth for the names sake of christ taking nothing of the gentiles , whom gaius is commended for courtesly entertaining , and dioteophes for rejecting . had not these brethren been sent topreach . i see not how john should reprove them that received them not , or stir up gaius to bring them on their journey whethersoever they would go , but john's care of them , and his h●lding them in reputation , and defending them against opposers of their ministery , and therewithal their forsaking all for the name of christ , and their freely preaching to the gentiles that they might be saved , shews that they were the messengers of the lord , and of his churches , otherwise if they ran before they were sent , they could not manage the great affairs of the gospel among the gentile● . and though it is true , john calls them brethren only , yet this doth not argue that they were not in ministerial capacity , for we find the same phrase used by paul , concerning those who were messengers of the churches , 2 cor. 8. 32. — or if the brethren be enquired o● , they are the messengers of the churches , and the glo●y of christ . to say that those brethren were messengers , only as they were sent to carry the contribution from the gentile churches , to the church at jerusalem ( as some would have it ) is a very cold exposition ; for first , it cannot be proved that they were imployed in that business ; but secondly , if they were , how should they for this service only be called the glory of christ . surely this character must needs refer to their being intrusted with better treasure then silver and gold , sith either brethren or sisters of very ordinary capacity ( if faithful ) might have been sent with earthly treasure . again , epaphroditus is not only called the m●ssenger of the church at philippi , but also pauls companion in labour , and his fellow souldier , which shews , that though he might bring the churches bounty to paul , yet this did not confer upon him the title of apostle or messenger ; sith he had a greater imployment than that , namely to labour in the work of the gospel , and to war in that holy warfare even as a companion of paul himself , and therefore worthily might he be called a messenger of the church of god. of this sort of the ministers of the gospel was barnabas , luke , marke , silas , sylvanus , titchicus , troplimus and apollos , as appears from their being frequently fellow travellers and labourers in the gospel with the apostles , concerning whom i argue thus . these persons were ministers of the gospel . but they were not intrusted with the care of particular churches , therefore their office was general , and by consequence travelling ministers ●r m●ssengers of the gospel . the major is true , otherwise they ran before they were sent ; and then how could they preach ? rom. 10. or be pauls fellow-souldiers and fellow labourers ? the minor is out of doubt , because of their unfixedness in respect of place , as before we have said ; and beside , some of them are expresly called the apostles of christ , 1 thes . 1. 1. where silvanus is joyned with paul ▪ as speaking to the thess●lonians , and so throughout that epistle , and chap. 2. 6. it is thus said , nor of men sought we glory . we. what we ? paul and silvanus , when we might have been ●urthensome . how might paul and silvanus have been burthensome ? why as the apostles of christ , for such they were , otherwise they might not have been burthensome as such timotheus and titus are evidently ministers of the same rank , as appears partly from the scripture even now alleadged ; where , as pa●l and silvanus , so also timotheus , is expresly called an ap●stle of christ . and partly from those epistles which paul wrote to them respectively , 1 tim. 1. as i besought thee to abide still at ephesus , when i went into macedoian — that thou might w●rn some that they teach no other doctrine , so do . had timothies charge been only at ephesus as pastour only of that church , there had been no need to beseech him to abide there ; it being not unknown to him that it was by all means requisite for such pastors to reside neatheir respective flocks , and not to go to forrein countreys , to mannage the affairs of other churches . but evident it is , that timothy was not fixed in any particular church , but was pauls fellow-traveller among the churches in divers countreys , and frequently sent by him to sundry places , from the time that he was called by the apostle to go forth with him , till paul sent for the elders of the church of ephesus , which was not long before he was taken prisoner , for all which see . act. 16 ▪ 1 ▪ 2 , 3 , 4. and 17. 25 ▪ & 18 , 5 the 19. 22. the 2. 4. to 18. and though in a certain post-script added to 2 tim. it is said , that timothy was ordained the first bishop of the church at ephesus , yet this cannot be true , seeing the church at ephesus had bishops , acts 20. 18. even whiles paul and timothy were companions in preaching the gospel in divers countrys . nor are the ancients positive in this matter , for i find eusebius only saying that it is reported that timothy was the first bishop of ephesus , and titus of creet ; but he affirms nothing in this matter . but that timotheus his care was for other churches , as much as for that at ephesus is evident philip. 2 , 19 , 20. but i trust in the lord jesus to send timotheus unto you — for i have no man like minded , who will naturally care for your state — but ye know the proof of him that as a son with the father he hath served with me in the gospel . of titus the same consideration may be had , seeing he was left in creet to set in order the things which were wanting , and to ordain elders in every church , plainly shewing that his power in the affairs of the gospel , and , his care for the churches was the same for every church , that it was for any one ; which is a far different charge from that which was given to the elders of the church of ephesus , acts 20. for they are not bid to look to all the churches in asia , but only to the flock ( in the singular number ) over which the holy ghost had made them episcopos , overseers or bishops , nor was titus , his care , for the churches in creet only ; for paul calls him his partner & fellow helper concerning the church at corinth , 2 cor. 8. 23. whether any do enquire of titus he is my partner , and fellow helper concerning you . of the same import is that place , gal. 1. 18 , 19. i went up to jerusalem to see peter — but other of the apostles saw i none save james the lords brother : here james the lords brother is called an apostle , he was not one of the 12. for that james is called the son of alpheus , math. 10. 3. of this mind is eusebius . but ierom would sometimes make these two one self-same man , and yet otherwhiles doth call him decimum tertium apostolum , that is , the thirteenth apostle , but that james the lords brother was not one of the 12. is evident 1 cor. 15. 5. to 8. where it is said that our lord apppeared first to cephas , then to the 12. after that he was seen of james then of all the apostles . two things are hence to be noted . 1. that james is distinguished from the 12. and so are those persons signified by all the apostles ; for it cannot be that by all the apostles should be meant the chief apostles , for they were mentioned before , and paul himself who was an apostle of the same dignity , is mentioned afterwards , but by all the apostles , is most like to be meant the 70. disciples whom our lord sent out as messengers to preach the gospel in every city whither himself would go , and who no doubt became famous ministers of the gospel after the ascention of our lord , and with this eusebius doth seem to agree ; we see then , partly from evident texts of scripture , and partly from rational probabilities , that the primitive churches were endewed with a ministry of many messengers or apostles beside those who were the foundation layers and master-builders in the church of christ ; and hence we infer that god hath ordained such a ministery to continue in his church till the body of our lord be perfected . 4. from the practice of those brethren who most question the being of messengers , as a ministery in the church at this day . it will appear that such an office doth remai● . for , do they not frequently send out men to act authoritatively both in preaching the gospel to them that are without ? in setting things in order in remote congregations ? to exercise discipline by excommunication of offenders ? and remitting the penitent ? by ordaining them elders , and dispencing to them the holy ordinances ? &c. as these things cannot be denied , so we may justly enquire how it comes to pass that they do thus ? if indeed the church hath none to act in the capacity of apostles , or messengers of the gospel , at least as we have defined them , seeing it cannot be proved , ( neither i think do our brethren affirm ) that elders of the churches have equal power in other congregations , as in that which they are chosen to serve neither is it in the power of any congregation to take the pastour of any church from them ; neither may any church impose their pastour upon another church , wherefore unless there be a ministery remaining in the church which is related to all congregations indifferently , we may perceive what confusion is like to ensue . moreover if those who go to preach to the world cannot justisie their calling , how shall they comfort themselves in their undertaking , or answer opposers when questioned concerning their commission ? especially in such places where the scriptures are received sith all that have read them may easily perceive , that as the gospel is to be preached , so those which go forth as ministers thereof , must be sent either by immediate mission from heaven ( which our brethren pretend not to ) or some mediate mission from the church of god , which none can pretend to , that deny the office of messengers sith other officers are not by vertue of their office to go out into the world to teach the nations , or to preach the gospel to every creature . if to that which we have said it should be replyed , ●hat churches which are distant one from another may by consent let the elders of one church act as elders in another , &c. this is sooner said than proved , for seeng officers have their commission at what time they a●e ordained , it cannot be that they should have their power ( de jure ) made either less or greater by the consent or non-consent of any person or persons whatsoever . again , it would be understood how long the power our brethren gives to men to act as elders in those congregations doth remain ? whether they thenceforth stand equally engaged to oversee those churches , as the church that first called them to serve as pastors ? and also how many several congregations they may act in as pastours by consent ? whether two only , or ten only , or an hundred , and so ad infinitum . surely if once they give particular pastours , power to act as elders in more congregations then they were at the time of their ordination , appointed to oversee ; they can never bound their power ; and then what messenger of the church did ever exceed them in that respect . and further , if our brethren can give their particular pastours power to act as pastours in many churches for a month or half a year , then why not a year 2. or 3. and so for the term of life , the occasions still being the same ? and how much comes this short of the power committed to any messenger in the world at this day ? wherefore seeing that our brethren do exercise as great authority in sending men to preach to the world , and to settle their churches as we do , it is strange they should dislike our calling those offices by such names as the scripture gives them , rather then by such names as are exclusive of that authority , which is exercised either by those who go out to preach the gospel to every creature , or those that take the care of all the churches . true it is , that peter calls himself an elder , and that he was elder in one church as well as in another , but this was because he had an office which was comprehensive of all offices in the church , and hence it is that we find the apostles sometimes performing the office of deacons , when it might be done without lett to the preaching of the word , but though it be true that the greater contains the less , yet the less doth not contain the greater ; for it cannot be denied , that the office of a particular elder of a congregation only , and a charge to teach all nations , are things inconsistant to one and the same person . what may or ought to be done in preaching the gospel by persons gifted in the church , as a general priviledge or duty , it is not my business here to discourse , but only to shew what it is which necessarily is to be done by vertue of those offices which god hath ordained in his church , otherwise it were easie to shew that god hath not only provided a liberty in his church for the modest exercise of the gifts of his spirit , in the way of prophesie , exhortation , &c. that the body may be edified . but also when by his providence any of the members of the body are exposed to rem●te places , or otherwise called to testifie their faith , they may lawfully evangelize or preach the gospel , as is evident both from the holy scriptures , act. 8. 4 , 5. and other very ancient authors . see socrates schlasticus , l. 1. the 15. 16. chapters . 5. the necessity of messengers or apostles ( in the sense we have defined ) is yet more evident from the state of the world , in respect of their continual ne●d to be taught the gospel in the ancient purity thereof ; and the rather because of that gre●t danger they lie under , by reas●n of the many decivers or salse vpostles , which are gone out into the world , who corrupt the wordly mingling therewith their own traditions . the world is the lords harvest , into which he is pleased to send his labourers , and the church is commanded to pray that the lord of the harvest would send forth painful labourers into his harvest , luke . 10. 1 , 2. it will not be denied that these labourers are at least chiefly ) some that are in a ministerial capacity to preach the gospel . and they cannot so well be understood of any particular function in the ministery , as that of messengers , partly for that the other officers in the ministry are bound to particular congregations as we have shewed before , and partly for that our saviour gives this direction to the church , upon the occasion of his sending forth messengers to preach the gospel . if then it be the duty of the church at this day , to pray to the lord that he would send forth painful labourers to preach to the world ( as sure none can deny that ) there is not any room left to doubt of the continuance of such an office , as that of messengers of the gospel , for that very clause touching their being sent forth , and that as lambs in the midst of wolves , doth sufficiently instruct us what labourers these are . a necessity therefore lieeth upon the church of god to dispose of her members to that needful work , as the lord vouchsafes to fit them for ; least otherwise she be like those who make many prayers for that which they never intend to do . it is certain the church hath no power to cause the world to come to her assemblies , nor is it like that the world will send to the church of god for instruction . it remaineth therefore , seeing the gospel is for the illumination of all , that as gad hath wont to send forth his ambassadours to beseech the world in christs stead to be reconciled to god even so , one fruit of the ascension of our lord ( at this day ) is a gift even for the rebellious , that the lord god might dwel among them , psal . 68 18. which being compared with ephes . 4. may very well be interpreted of a gifted ministery to turn rebellious sinners from darkness to light , and from the power of satan unto god. to which agrees that place , john 16. 8. where our lord doth assure his disciples , that when he should send the holy ghost , he should convince the world of sin , of righteousness and judgment , and this ( no doubt ) as he should operate or work upon men by the ministery of the word , which promise either ended with that age ( which is absurd to think ) or else if it remain to these days , then it supposes a ministery to hold forth to the world the everlasting gospel for the obedience of faith , i mean such a ministry as are bound even by virtue of their calling , as debtors to the wise and unwise , to preach the gospel to those that are without . there is no doubt but satan hath his ap●stles , ministers or messengers in the world , as well as in times past 2 cor. 11. 13 , 22. it were strange now if our lord christ should have none to withstand these , if need be with an are they apostles ? so am i , as well as with an are they mnisters of christ ? so am i. nor doth the apostle hear dissllow the appellation of apostles or ministers of christ to others beside himself and the rest of the chief apostles : but that which he doth disallow , is , that men should be called either the one or the other , when their works declared that they were false apostles , and such as only transformed themselves as the ministers of righteousness . but had it been unlawful for any to be called apostles beside the foundation-layers , paul had a very easie way to confute these deceivers even by telling them that their professing themselves apostles was proof sufficient that they were deceivers ; yet he never makes that an argument at all , but goes about to vindicate his apostleship as being nothing inferiour to those transformed-apostles , sith he was not a whit behind the very chiefest apostles . the same consideration may be had of that place , rev. 2. 2. thou hast tryed them which say they are apostles and are not , and hast found them lyars : for had there been no more apostles but the chief apostles , there had been no need to try whether these were apostles of christ or not , for still their very saying they were such , had , without more ado proved them lyars , and like as if any should arise and say i am christ the saviour of the world , his very saying so were the greatest evidence that the same is a deceiver . but why so ? verily because there is only one lord jesus our saviour , whom the heavens must retain till the times of the resti●ution of all things ; even so , if there were not a succession of apostles , it were one of the easiest things in the world to discover a false ap●stle . finally , the gospel must be preached in all the world for a witness to all people , and then shall the end come , math. 24. 14. which supposes the being of a ministery , whose work it is to preach to all nations , even to the end of the world , rev. 14. 6. the angel [ a definite for an indefinite number ] messenger or messengers must preach the everlasting gospel immediately before great babylon fall . it followeth then , that though darkness hath much prevailed since the first publication of the gospel , yet a ministery shall go forth , even the messengers of the gospel by whom the earth shall be enlightned . and here let it be noted that the preacher ( or preachers ) of the everlasting gospel , hath not a gospel to confirm with signs and wonders , but a gospel to preach to every nation , kindred , tongue , and people , even the same that was preached by our lord , and confirmed to us by them that heard him . the sum of that which we have said is this ; that as god hath given to his church a fixed ministery of bishops , elders , pastors , &c. to take the care of particular congregations so he hath given her a travelling ministery , or unfixed , in respect of particular societies or congregations , to whom it appertains by virtue of their office to take all occasions to cause the light of the glorious gospel to shine unto such as sit in darkness to plant churches , to confirm and settle them in the faith and order of the gospel . to visit and comfort those which have believed through grace . go ye , preach the gospel to every creature . jesus christ — who was preached among you by us , even by me , and silvanus , and timotheus . thanks be to god which maketh manifest the savour of his knowledge by vs in every place . and when they had preached the gospel to that city , and taught many , they returned again to listra , and to iconium , and antioch confirming the souls of the disciples : for this cause have i sent un-unto you timotheus , who is my beloved son and faithful in the lord , who shall bring you in remembrance of my wayes which be in christ , as i teach every where in every church , let us go again and visit our brethren in every city where we have preached the word , and see how they do . and lo i am with you alwayes , even to the end of the world. when we say the messengers of the gospel are unfixed ministers . our meaning is not thereby to deny , but that for the more convenient mannagement of the great affairs of the gospel , they may divide themselves into divers parts , and so may be called the messengers of such countreys , as with whom they most frequently converse of the gospel of christ , gal. 2. 9. when james , cephas , and john perceived the grace which was given to me and barnabas , they gave unto me and barnabas the right hand of fellowship that we should go to the heathen , and they to the circumcision . in asia we read of seven * messengers , and these related to seven churches in seven principal cities in that country ▪ yet it may not be doubted but there were many congregations and scattered disciples in country villages , and so , many elders also : yea , and that in those very churches which are particularly nam'd , for in the church of ephesus ( which is the first of the seven ) we find divers bishops or elders before john wrote from pa●mos , acts 20. 17 , 28. it is true , the ancients call these seven angels or messengers , bishops or chief ministers . but then we know by bishops they commonly mean such as had the charge of many particular congregations . thus they make timothy a bishop , yet confess him to be a preacher of the gospel from ephesus unto illiricum , and throughout hellas in achaia . titus they make bishop of creet , yet such an one as preached the gospel in all that country . they also make silvanus bishop of thessalonica , but the scripture as we have seen calls him an apostle , as well as the rest . now whether it be more safe to call those travelling ministers of christ bishops , after the manner of men ; or apstoles , after the manner of the scripture , is the business for the sober and unprejudiced reader to consider . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a41790-e130 * the breach of the church . notes for div a41790-e790 * and then why not the like for all disciples where ever they came , no man can render a good reason . * and yet it is true , which paul saith gal. 1. 11 , 12 , 15 , 16. for the substance of the gospel was revealed to him , before ananias came at him . * which they said to me , they did alwayes grant , or else i had nor mentioned it in this book . tertul. de resur . c. 8. cip. ep . ad jubi . jerom. ad lucif . euseb . l. 6. ● . 42. erasm . paraph. in heb. 6. 2. diodate annot. on heb. 6. 2. tindale in 2 tim. 1 ▪ 6. notes for div a41790-e7930 the opinion of the university of basil . the opinion of the rhem. gen. 4. 19. gen. 9. 4. lev. 17. 13 , 14 , 15. acts 15. 29. notes for div a41790-e10520 * which seldom can be done without division , by reason of pride on the one hand , and ignorance on the other . * 1 king. 18 , 21. * for it cannot be thought but that jeremiah had some that stood with him . ver . 11. * it is not so much an errour , as the pertinacious continuance in an errour , that destroyeth the church-state of those that are under the appellation of christians , by true baptism according to mat. 28. * the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 here used , is rendred by montanus , seditione . and so it is by our transl●tors in gal. 5. 20. which being considered , must needs supose ( at least ) a demur in point of communion . hence let the christians of this age learn moderation . moderation . moderation . 2 thes . 1. 1. division against unsufferable errours , and corruptions are not against the church , but for the church . * which how untrue that is , their own search doth testifie , for there they confess that we own them for churches at some turns , ( they say ) but surely , ( to let go this taunt ) what , we confess them to be at any time , we confess them to be at all times , and that is a church of christ , though irregular in point of constitution . * let no man here object , prayer and hearing the word , which as they are of necessity antecedent to our membership , so they are of perpetual use in the church . * ex ore judicium . * at least some of of you . notes for div a41790-e13340 * math. 28. 19 , 20. gal. 1. 1. * 2 tim. 1. 13. * and yet it is true that paul was taught the knowledge of some of the principles of religion by ananias . acts 9. 6 , 17 , 18. acts 22. 16. * i. e. as a concomitant ; not as a part of their office. if the church have not a ministery of messengers , then none are bound by virtue of office to preach to the nations . acts 6. 2. gal. 2. 9 , 10. mark 16. 16. 2 cor. 1. 19. 2 cor. 2. 14. acts 14. 21 , 22. 1 cor. 4. 17. act , 14. 36. math. 28. 20. * see the old trans . vvater-dipping no firm footing for church-communion: or considerations proving it not simply lawful, but necessary also (in point of duty) for persons baptized after the new mode of dipping, to continue communion with those churches, or imbodied societies of saints, of which they were members before the said dipping; and that to betray their trust or faith given unto jesus christ to serve him in the relation and capacity, whether of officers, or other members, in these churches (respectively) by deserting these churches, is a sin highly provoking in the sight of god. together with a post-script touching the pretended answer to the forty queries about church-communion, infant and after baptism. by john goodwin, a servant of god in the gospel of his dear son. goodwin, john, 1594?-1665. this text is an enriched version of the tcp digital transcription a85422 of text r202234 in the english short title catalog (thomason e723_15). textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. the text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with morphadorner. the annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. this text has not been fully proofread approx. 229 kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from 46 1-bit group-iv tiff page images. earlyprint project evanston,il, notre dame, in, st. louis, mo 2017 a85422 wing g1213 thomason e723_15 estc r202234 99862598 99862598 166777 this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons 0 1.0 universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase 1, no. a85422) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set 166777) images scanned from microfilm: (thomason tracts ; 111:e723[15]) vvater-dipping no firm footing for church-communion: or considerations proving it not simply lawful, but necessary also (in point of duty) for persons baptized after the new mode of dipping, to continue communion with those churches, or imbodied societies of saints, of which they were members before the said dipping; and that to betray their trust or faith given unto jesus christ to serve him in the relation and capacity, whether of officers, or other members, in these churches (respectively) by deserting these churches, is a sin highly provoking in the sight of god. together with a post-script touching the pretended answer to the forty queries about church-communion, infant and after baptism. by john goodwin, a servant of god in the gospel of his dear son. goodwin, john, 1594?-1665. 90, [2] p. printed by j.m. for henry cripps and lodowick lloyd, and are to be sold at their shop in popes-head alley., london, : 1653. in part a reply to: allen, william. an answer to mr. j.g. his xl queries. with a final errata leaf. annotation on thomason copy: "december 12:". reproduction of the original in the british library. eng allen, william, d. 1686. -answer to mr. j.g. his xl queries -early works to 1800. baptists -controversial literature -early works to 1800. baptism -early works to 1800. a85422 r202234 (thomason e723_15). civilwar no vvater-dipping no firm footing for church-communion: or considerations proving it not simply lawful, but necessary also (in point of duty) f goodwin, john 1653 42052 31 190 0 0 0 0 53 d the rate of 53 defects per 10,000 words puts this text in the d category of texts with between 35 and 100 defects per 10,000 words. 2007-09 tcp assigned for keying and markup 2007-09 apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images 2007-10 emma (leeson) huber sampled and proofread 2007-10 emma (leeson) huber text and markup reviewed and edited 2008-02 pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion vvater-dipping no firm footing for church-communion : or considerations proving it not simply lawful , but necessary also ( in point of duty ) for persons baptized after the new mode of dipping , to continue communion with those churches , or imbodied societies of saints , of which they were members before the said dipping ; and that to betray their trust or faith given unto jesus christ to serve him in the relation and capacity , whether of officers , or other members , in these churches ( respectively ) by deserting these churches , is a sin highly provoking in the sight of god . together with a post-script touching the pretended answer to the forty queries about church-communion , infant and after baptism . by john goodwin , a servant of god in the gospel of his dear son . ye did run well ; who did hinder you , that ye should not obey the truth ? gal. 5. 7. let them return unto thee , but return not thou unto them . jer. 15. 19. if there be any consolation in christ , if any comfort of love , if any fellowship of the spirit , if any bowels and mercies , fulfil ye my joy ; be ye like minded , having the same love , being of one accord , of one mind : let nothing be done through strife or vain glory , &c. phil. 2. 1 , 2 , 3. london , printed by j. m. for henry cripps and lodowick lloyd , and are to be sold at their shop in popes-head alley . 1653. to the reader . good reader , how thou wilt interpret , or accept of , the considerations here presented unto thee , i know not . the ground of my doubt is , because they are but as so many candles lighted up to shew unto men the sun . never did my pen labor in a cause more expedite and facil : yet this ( i confess ) is fully balanced with the unreasonableness and difficulty of conviction in those persons , with whom i have chiefly to do . and since all proof ought to be made by somewhat more manifest and better known , then the conclusion in question ; he whose task it is to prove that twice two make four , must needs have an hard province to manage . my engagement in these papers is ( upon the matter ) only to prove , that jesus christ doth not require of his followers to be promise-breakers for his sake ( much less for a ceremonies sake ) when the matter of these promises is just , and holy , and good ; least of all when these promises have been solemnly made , and as in his own presence , and unto persons relating in faith and holiness unto himself . it is a polique maxim maintained by the consistory of rome , that promises are not to be kept with heretiques : but that promises should not be kept with saints and true beleevers , and so acknowledged , certainly is the apprehension and conceit of a troubled and maimed fancy . and i confess that the cure of a misused and distempered fancy is {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , little better then an hopeless undertaking ; seldom atchieved by art , or skill ; sometimes by chance , or providence out of course . however , my small pains in teaching these papers to speak as they do , shall be largely rewarded , if god shall only please to use them as a shield , wherewith to defend those , which are yet whole and sound , from like impressions of distemper . thine , to serve thee in the things , both of thy present , and eternal peace , j. g. considerations , proving it not simply lawful , but necessary also in point of duty , for persons baptized after the new mode of diping , to continue in communion with those churches , or imbodied societies of saints , of which they were members before the said dipping or baptizing ; and that to betray their trust , or faith given unto jesus christ to serve him in the relation and capacity , whether of officers , or other members in these churches respectively , by deserting these churches , is a sin highly provoking in the sight of god . consideration i. it is evident from many notable passages of scripture , that god himself hath given a kind of superintendency or power of regulation unto the law of nature , the dictates and duties thereof , over institutions , and ceremonial commands , and the observations of these , ( even as he hath given a like power unto some institutions over others , mat. 12. 5. ) so that when and whilest the observation of an institution or ceremony cannot take place , or be practised , without trespassing upon some branch or other of the said law of nature , then and so long , the said observation is to give place : nor is the law of god requiring it , in such a case , broken , or disparaged in the least . have ye not read ( saith our saviour to the phaerssees ) what david did when he was an hungered , and they that were with him , how he entered into the house of god , and did eat the shewbread , which was not lawful for him to eat [ viz. in ordinary cases , ] neither for them which were with him , but for the priests only , mat. 12. 3 , 4. and soon after : but if ye had known what this meaneth , i will have mercy , and not sacrifice , ye would not have condemned the guiltless : for the son of man * is lord even of the sabbath day . again , a few verses after : what man shall there be among you , that shall have one sheep , and if it fall into a pit on the sabbath day , will he not lay hold on it , and lift it out ? how much then is a man better then a sheep ? elsewhere : if thou bring thy gift to the altar , and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee , leave there thy gift before the altar , and go thy way : first be reconciled to thy brother , and then offer thy gift , mat. 5. 23 , 24. [ our brethren , in stead of reconciling themselves to their brethren , fall out with them , and then go and offer their gift of dipping . ] from the same lips in another place this dew of heaven falleth : the sabbath was made for man , and not man for the sabbath , mark 2. 27. circumcision was a great institution of god , and obedience unto it most strictly and solemnly commanded : yet they to whom it was particularly commanded , omitted the observation and practise of it for forty years together ; and this without any other warrant , dispensation , relaxation , or permission from god , but only that which by the light and law of nature he granted unto them , and yet are blameless . and yet it may be worthy consideration , that the inconvenience in nature , i mean the degree of smart , pain , trouble , or danger in any kind , the prevention and avoyding whereof they judged ( and truly ) a sufficient dispensation from god for a forbearance of circumcision during their travel , was not so great or threatening , but that in probability they might have endured it , without the loss of any of their lives . the jews of later times , though rigid enough in their doctrine concerning the observation of their sabbath , yet have this maxim , periculum vitae pellit sabbatum , peril of life drives away the sabbath . but on the contrary it is no where to be found in scripture , that god giveth any superintendency unto institutions or ceremonial observations over the moral law , or authority to over-rule the dictates or any the principles of the law of nature , or to exempt any man from the performance of any duty required hereby . how much less will he justifie any man , in pleading the necessity of submitting to such a ceremony , which , or at least the necessity whereof , more probably is of humane , then divine institution , by way of bar to the performance of such duties , which the moral law , yea the law of nature it self , requireth ? therefore inexcuseable altogether are such persons , both in the sight of god , and men , who pretend themselves disobliged from the performance of such promises , which they have solemnly made unto their brethren , by a necessary of subjecting to an external rite or ceremony : how much more , when the observation of this rite or ceremony , is , and always hath been , by all the judicious , learned and faithful servants of god in the christian world ( a very few , and these upon no accompt , very considerable , excepted ) adjudged no ways necessary by vertue of any precept , or command of god ? god ( doubtless ) by the law of nature , and of love to their brethren , requireth of such men a forbearance of their ceremony ( though supposed of divine institution ) for the peace , comfort , spiritual accommodation and edification of their brethren , rather then the practise of it to their offence , trouble , and distraction , yea to the danger of the precious souls of many weak ones , who are emboldened by their example , having no sufficient ground in themselves for such a practise , to condemn themselves in allowing and practising the same ceremony . for , as our saviour of the sabbath , so say i of baptism : baptism was made for man , and not man for baptism . baptism was made , or ordained , for man , [ i. e. for mans benefit , comfort , and accommodation ; and consequently , is only to be used and administred in order hereunto , and so not to his disturbance , danger , or distraction , ] not man for baptism , [ i. e. man was not made or created by god for any such end as this , that baptism by his trouble , sorrow , molestation or danger should be magnified or exalted in the world . ] and why it should not savour of as much christianity , and be of equal acceptance with god , for the peace of the churches and servants of god in these days , to lay asleep a living ordinance for a time , as it did in the apostle paul to awaken a dead ordinance ( i mean circumcision ) upon the same account in his days , i understand not . consideration ii. the churches and societies of the saints , which are not actually and externally baptized with that figure or kind of baptism so much contended for , yet , supposing this very baptism to be the only baptismal ordinance of christ , and that it is his will that they should be baptized with it , they are , according to the rule and standard of divine estimate and acceptance , baptized therewith , as well as those persons themselves , who so impotently please themselves in their subjection to the letter of it . the standard , or standing rule of divine estimate , is this : if there be first a willing mind , a man is accepted according to that he hath , ( so it were better rendered , though the difference be not material , ) and not according to that he hath not , 2 cor. 1. 12. by a like rule god likewise estimateth the sinfulness and wickedness of men . whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her , hath committed adultery with her already in his heart , mat. 5. 28. so then if the members of unbaptized churches ( so called ) have a willing mind , are prepared and large-hearted to submit unto all and every the ordinances of christ , and consequently , unto new-baptism it self , ( supposing this to be one of that retinue , ) but only want the opportunity of light and conviction so to judg & conceive of it , they are accepted with god , and esteemed by him , ( and ought they not then to be so with men ? ) as persons baptized with that very baptism . yea the truth is , that if the unbaptized churches sin , or be blame-worthy , for not being actually baptized after the manner of the brethren of new-baptism , these persons themselves are in a great degree accessary unto such their sin , partly by administring unto them only weak and insufficient grounds for their conviction , partly also ( and more especially ) by causing , through their pride , frowardness , insolency and disdainfulness of spirit , together with many other strains of most unchristian behaviour towards them , that sacrifice of the lord ( if such it be ) to be abhorred . besides , i am all thoughts made , that the far greater part of those , who have been prevailed with to accept of a dip for baptism , neither have , nor ever had , either that love unto , nor sacred and reverent esteem of , all the ordinances of christ , which thousands of those have , whom god hath not yet so perswaded . so then they who refuse communion with such saints , who have not been actually baptized with their baptism , upon this pretence only , that they have not been thus baptized , reject the communion of those , whom god reputeth to have been baptized with that very baptism , for the want of which such men reject them , ( always supposed , as hath been said , that the dipping-baptism is the sole baptism . ordinance of christ . ) consideration iii. the scripture very frequently and expresly teacheth , that by faith men become and are made the children of abraham , and sons of god . but as many as received him , to them gave he power to become the sons of god , even to them that beleeve on his name , joh. 1. 12. but ye are all the children of god by faith in christ jesus , joh. 3. 26. see also rom. 4. 11 , 12 , 16. if then true beleevers be the sons of god , then must all they needs be bastards , and no sons of god , but children of satan , who are not their brethren . and if they who are the sons of god , and consequently their brethren , be ashamed of them , and shall refuse to own them in their church-fellowship , are they not ashamed of those , of whom the lord christ professeth before heaven and earth that he is not ashamed ; no , not ashamed to own them in the relation of brethren ? for both he that sanctifieth , and they who are sanctified , are all of one : for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren , hebr. 2. 11. must not then jesus christ needs look upon those men , as greater in their own conceit , either in holiness , or in dignity , or in both , then himself , who are ashamed of such persons , of whom he is not ashamed ; yea indeed in whom he glorieth , as being ( with their fellows ) his fulness ; and in whom he shall come to be glorified and admired in the great day ? a thess. 1. 10. or is not the great jealousie of christ like to be provoked , when men shall presume to make , or call , that common , which he hath sanctified with his own blood , and made express declaration from heaven accordingly ? or can either a thing , or person , be made , or called common , in a more disgraceful , or reproachful way , then when men shall separate from them as unclean , or defective in holiness ? consideration iv. such persons , whom god judgeth meet for communion and fellowship with himself , and his son jesus christ , the reasons and grounds of this his judgment being visible in these persons , especially being acknowledged also by men , ought not to be judged unmeet for any holy communion with the holiest of men , especially not by those , who do acknowledg those things in these persons , which are the grounds of their acceptance into the said communion with god . the apostle instructing the strong in faith , in their duty towards the weak [ i. e. towards those who were at present ignorant of many things which the other knew ] saith thus : him that is weak in the faith , receive you : and again ; let not him that eateth [ i. e. the strong in faith , who understands his liberty ] despise him that eateth not , [ i. e. the weak , ] rom. 14 1 , 3. the reason , why god would have no despising of weak christians on the one hand , nor judging of those that were strong on the other , is delivered by the apostle in these words , [ vers . 3. ] for god hath accepted him ; i. e. as well the weak , as the strong ; and again , the strong as well as the weak , ( the reason equally relating to both the preceding clauses in the verse ; ) clearly avouching gods accepting of persons , when discovered , or acknowledged by men , for an obliging ground upon these , not to despise them , or [ which is by the apostle interpreted as the same ] to reject them from their communion . now the grounds of gods acceptance of men and women as meet for communion with him , and his son jesus christ , are from place to place in the scriptures declared such , which are owned and acknowledged by persons themselves baptized according to the new and late edition of this ordinance ( so much corrected , enlarged , and amended ) in those churches , and their members , who at present make use of the former edition only . in every nation ( saith peter , speaking of god ) he that feareth him , and worketh righteousness , is accepted with him , acts 10. 35. the kingdom of god is not meat and drink , but righteousness and peace , and joy in the holy ghost : for he that in these things serveth christ , is acceptable unto god , &c. rom. 14. 17 , 18. if we walk in the light , as he is in the light , we have fellovvship one with another , &c. ( to omit other places of like import , which are many . ) now the brethren of the new baptized churches themselves , at least such of them whose judgments and consciences have not been drowned by the dipping of their bodies , do acknowledg all the said qualifications , as the fear of god , the working righteousness , &c. to be as visible in the members of bodies by them called , unbaptized , as in their own . yea some of them as yet retain so much christian ingenuity , as to confess , that in our unbaptized churches ( to please jews , we speak in the jewish language ) we have persons of as great , or greater worth , for holiness , righteousness , the fear and love of god , with all other christian accomplishments , as themselves have in the best of their congregations , notwithstanding the unimaginable advantage of their baptism . i wish in my soul for their sakes , that god would mercifully please to put it into their hearts seriously to consider , of what insufferable height and insolency of spirit it strongly savoreth , for men to judg those unworthy their communion , whom the most holy god , the great and high possessor of heaven and earth , accepteth into his . consideration v. the main pillar upon which the house of our new dippers of men , and dividers of churches , is built , is the signification of the verb baptizo , {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , translated to baptize : as for others , they are much more crazy , although neither is this of any great strength . but how few are there amongst those , who with so much violence and height of confidence build troubles , sorrows , distractions and confusions of christian churches , upon this pillar , that understand little or much what the said word {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} meaneth , or what it signifieth . for ought they know ( upon their own account ) {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} may signifie , either to tide , or to run , or to build , as well as to dip ; so that all the faith they have , of the proper signification of the said word , is built upon the authority and tradition of men . and the truth is , that men of greatest judgment and knowledg in the greek tongue are not agreed about the adequate or exact signification of it . certain it is , that the word which properly , primitively , and originally signifieth to dip , is {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , nor {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} being only a frequentative ( as grammarians speak ) and of a diminutive form , from the original {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , as {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} is from the verb {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , and {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} from {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , ( with many others of like consideration in the greek tongue . ) and very considerable it is , that the scripture of the new testament , where ever it hath occasion to express the act of dipping , constantly useth the word , {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , never {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , [ see luk. 16. 24. joh. 13. 26. revel. 19. 13. ] as on the contrary , where ever it hath occasion to mention or express the sacred action of baptism , it never useth the word {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , but always , {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} . yea it is granted by the dipping grandees themselves , that the word {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , is often found in the new testament it self , where it signifieth nothing less ( or rather somewhat less ) then dipping . yea that when it is used in the sacramental signification , that it doth not signifie or import , dipping , unless it be said to signifie undipping , or lifting out of the water also , is to me evident from most , if not all the places , where the sacred action known by the name of baptizing , is expressed by it . i shall argue only that one ( at present ) mat. 28. 19. the apostles commission there , as to the matter of baptizing , is expressed by the said word ; {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , &c. now if the word {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} here signifies to dip , and not to undip , or heave out of the water , then had the apostles no authority at all , or commission from christ , to perform the one half of the baptismal transaction , ( we speak now according to the dipping principles ) viz. that which consists in the lifting or taking up out of the water , those whom they were to dip into or under the water : but in case they did raise or help them out of the water , they did it upon their own heads , and without commission ; and consequently it could be no part of the baptismal transaction . how unreasonable a thing then is it , and unworthy christians , to swell against their peaceable brethren , ( their brethren partakers of like precious faith with themselves ) to separate themselves from their holy assemblies , as if they were the synagogues of satan , to pronounce them unclean for christian communion , &c. upon the account only , or chiefly , of humane tradition , and of such things whereof themselves can have no certain knowledg , no , nor yet men of far greater learning and knowledg , then they ? consideration vi . no authority can discharge , or disoblige , but that which is either greater then , or at least , equal unto that which bindeth . the authority of such a command of god , which is manifestly and undisputeably such , and is so acknowledged by the consciences of all men , is greater , then of any such command , whereof it is matter of doubtful disputation whether he be the author , or no . it is ( i presume ) no mans doubt or question , but that , 1. it is the command of god . that they who have promised things lawful , and meet to be done , and in their power to do , should perform their promise accordingly ; how much more when such promises have been made in a sacred and solemn manner , in the presence of christ , and of a great number of his saints round about him , yea and ( in some sort ) unto christ himself ? nor , 2. can it be any christian mans question , but that christian offices of love , as the edifying , comforting , admonishing , counselling , watching over brethren , supporting those that are weak , refreshing the bowels of those that stand in need , with other services belonging either to elders , or members of christian congregations , are things very lawful to be done , yea and more then lawful , especially when they have been promised . therefore unless men , who have promised such things as these , can shew as fair , as full , as express a discharge from god , from the performance of them , as that command of his is , which he hath layed upon them for their performance , they are to be looked upon as promise-breakers ( and this of one of the worst and most horrid kinds ) if they shall refuse , or neglect , to perform them . now i appeal to the consciences of those persons themselves , who upon any pretence whatsoever ( especially upon the pretence of a false baptism , so called only by themselves ) shall , after their covenant struck , and promise made , with and to any christian church , or society of saints , to perform all the particulars specified , turn their backs upon this church , thus treading and trampling under foot their holy covenant and promise , whether they can produce any thing from god , or from the word of god , so particular and express for their discharge and disobligement in this kind , as that command of his is , by which both they and all others stand charged to keep promise . i fear the sin of churchbreaking , yea and church-deserting without the leave or consent of the church deserted , will not be understood or duly considered by men , until the punishment of it come to be suffered , and then it will be too late . a pretended defect in , or of , baptism , will not excuse any mans waxing wanton , or kicking with the heel , against christ in any of his churches , or assemblies of his saints ; no nor yet any such defect as this in truth of being . consideration vii . in that very text of scripture , hebr. 6. 2. wherein our new baptists place a great part of their trust for the support of their cause , there is evidently imported a plurality of baptisms ; the doctrine or explication of which is here numbered amongst the foundations of christ , i. e. such heads of doctrine , wherein persons were wont to be instructed ( as it were ) in the infancy of their christian profession , in order to their further increase in knowledg . now whether the holy ghost by mentioning , baptisms ( in the plural number ) did not intend to insinuate , that however in one sence and consideration there be only one baptism , ephes. 4. 5. [ viz. in respect of the signification and end of baptizing , ] yet in respect of variety of subjects , and of different forms of administration , wherein it might be , or was to be , administred , it might not be many , is ( i suppose ) not so easie upon grounds satisfactory to a considering man , to determine : yet i judg it much more difficult for any man upon such an account to prove the contrary . therefore such persons who call christian churches and societies of men , accursed , or unclean , for want of such or such a determinate form of baptizing , are not able to give any reasonable or christian account of such their hard sayings ; nor yet to prove , that a plurality of baptisms , as well in respect of different kinds of subjects , as of external modes of administration , was not intended , or allowed by christ , nor ( consequently ) that the baptism practised in the churches of their reproach , is not a baptism approved by him . consideration viii . every kingdom ( saith christ ) divided against it self , is brought to desolation : and every city or house divided against it self , shall not stand , mat. 12. 25. meaning , that in all communities and societies of men , greater or l●sser , divisions of one part against another , threaten dissolution of the whole . in consideration whereof some of the ancient fathers judged a schismatical rending and dividing of the church , to proceed only from a diabolical spirit , and to be a sin of very near affinity with that which is unpardonable * . now although i judg this somewhat too hard and heavy a censure of schismatical practises , and in this respect like to the censures wherewith schismatiques themselves always burthen those christian societies , from which they rend themselves , for wanting one thing or other that should make them cize with the standard of their imaginations , yet due consideration had of all those high appearances of the holy ghost in scripture against schisms , divisions , strifes and contentions amongst imbodied saints , the sin of schism must needs be adjudged a sin of a deep demerit , and high provocation , in the sight of god , and of christ . and the more precipitate , violent and heady any schism shall be , and with how much the more contempt , and neglect of those , in respect either of giving , or receiving satisfaction about the pretended ground of schismatizing , against whom the sin shall be committed , and again , the less considerable , all circumstances duly weighed , the matter pretended for the schism-making shall be , so much the more haynous must the sin needs be , and punishable with the sorer judgment by god . now whether the schism made by the rebaptizing party of professors amongst us , from those churches , of which they were lately members , upon the only pretence of a defect of baptism , be not fearfully aggravated by all the said circumstances , i leave to their own consciences , when god shall have awakened them , to consider . consideration ix . that determinate kind of baptism , which is the fire-brand of contention amongst the saints , and which hath put the christian world about us into a flame , is by one of the gravest authors , and and greatest apostles of the anti-paedo baptistical faith , called ( and that with evidence enough of truth ) a carnal ceremony † , i. e. an external rite of some sacred signification , or import . now to make new partition walls of carnal ceremonies , and this not only between abrahams spiritual seed , and the prophane gentile part of the world , but between one part of this blessed seed it self , and another , so that the one , because of this ceremony rising up in their way , may not come at , to enjoy any spiritual communion , with the other , is it not the founding of a new kind of judaism in the world ; and the making work for christ to be crucified a second time for the dissolution of it ? consideration x. ignorance in some things appertaining to the knowledg of god , and the mystery of christ , whether found in a church , or in particular persons , rendereth neither the one nor the other unclean upon any such terms , but that both may lawfully , and without the least tincture of guilt , be conversed with in a church-way . otherwise there will neither church , nor member , be found upon earth , but whose communion will defile us ; in as much as the apostle , speaking as well of himself and his fellow apostles , as of the intire successive body of christians in all ages , saith ; we know in part , and we prophecy in part , 1 cor. 13. 9. again , where churches , or persons , know but in part , it cannot be expected they should practise in whole , or in full . he is a good christian , who practiseth and walketh up to his light , though he doth not walk above it , yea although his light be somewhat low , and mixt with much darkness . and though an erring or mistaking conscience , will not simply or totally justifie a concurring practise , yet will it justifie it comparatively ; it being better to follow the dictate or light of a mis-guided or mis-taught conscience , then to rebel against it . otherwise sad were the case of those sacrilegious church-breakers , who out of conscience ( i judg no worse of many of them ) practise this enormity . now then they who give sentence against a church , or people , as unclean for communion , only because they do not practise baptismal dipping , must ground the equity of such a sentence , either , 1. upon their non-conviction of the necessity of such a practise ; or , 2. upon the non-practise it self , which they must suppose , either to be concurrent with , or repugnant unto , the light of their judgments and consciences . if the former of these , the ignorance or non-conviction of a church , or people , of the necessity of dipping , be pretended for a ground of the sentence we speak of , to justifie this pretence , it must be proved , that every mistake or dissatisfaction in judgment , in any controversal point whatsoever of like difficulty or disputeableness with that about the necessity of dipping , rendereth a church or people unclean for communion . but i look to see jesus christ as he is , long before this be proved . 2. if the ground of the said sentence be the latter , the non-practise of dipping , then , in case it be supposed that this non-practise be a matter of conscience in the church or people we speake of , and confirm to their judgments , they are adjudged unclean for not defiling , or not sinning against , their conscience . but far be it from us to suspect our brethren in the faith , of such a judgment as this . if it be supposed to be contrary to their judgment , and that in refusing to practise baptismal dipping , they go against their consciences , then are the supposers judgers of evil thoughts , supposing that which they cannot prove , indeed have no ground or reason at all to suspect , but ground in abundance to conclude the contrary . so that they can upon no christian or reasonable ground pronounce any such hard sentence against their non dipping brethren , as of uncleanness for church communion . and if they would but please plainly and clearly to declare , wherein they place the high demerit , the unpardonable crime of non-dipping , whilest men remain dissatisfied , either touching the lawfulness , or necessity of the practise , i verily beleeve they would soon be ashamed of their notion , and out of hand pull down all they have built upon it . consideration xi . when the apostle writeth to the churches in his days , in sundry the inscriptions of his epistles unto them , wherein he describeth them , he insereth the mention of their sanctification , their calling to be saints , their being beloved of god , their saintship , their faithfulness in christ , &c. but never so much as hinteth their having been baptized . which is a strong presumption at least ( if not a demonstration ) that in case it be supposed that all these churches were baptized , yet the apostle did not look upon their baptism as any part of their church-ship , or of the visibility thereof , much less as any essential part or point of either . for if such a thing shall be supposed , what reason can be imagined , why their baptism should not once , or twice at least , have been mentioned in their discription , as well as their faith , sanctification , calling &c. so frequently , and ( well-nigh ) constantly ( i mean , one , or other of them . ) so then it is a plain case that the apostle doth not estimate the truth of churches by the observation or practise of baptism ( much less by the practise of such or such a determinate kind of baptizing ) but by the faith and holiness of the persons inchurched . baptism is never mentioned so much as by way of commendation , either of church or person , ( at least not more then the observance of other ordinances ) no not when several other matters of praise are insisted on in reference unto either : ( see 1 cor. 11 , 2. rom. 1. 8. 1 cor. 1. 4 , 5. ephes. 1. 5. luk. 1. 6. acts. 11. 24. to pass over other texts of like import ) and yet many things may be commendable in either , which are not essentially requisite to their being . and ( doubtless ) if men were not under some strong enchantment , and the rational powers of their souls strangely held , in reference ( at least ) to the subject we now speak o● , such an imagination as this would never have been found amongst all their thoughts , that baptism according to one mode , or other , should be a constituting principle of a true church . consideration xii . when the apostle paul instructeth christian churches with their respective members , who and what manner of persons they are , who are unmeet for their christian communion , he mentioneth fornicators , covetous , idolaters , railers , drunkards , extortioners , disorderly walkers , &c. but never persons of an holy and blamless conversation , whether baptized , or unbaptized . if our brethren reply , that there was no occasion why he should mention persons unbaptized , in as much as there was none such in these days , who lived holily , or had the names of brethren amongst christians ; we answer , 1. that our brethren are still wont to use slime in stead of mortar to build their babel ; i mean , to make use of light conjectures , loose suppositions , presumptions , self-imaginations , &c. in stead of solid and clear demonstrations , either from the scriptures , or sound principles in reason , for the defence and support of their cause . to say that in the times we speak of , there were no saints reputed brethren in any christian church , who were unbaptized , is somewhat lighter then a meer conjecture , and not of any more weight then such a supposition , which hath much reason and strength of probability against it ( as hath been shewed elsewhere . ) 2. in case we should releive the poor , and grant our brethren their said supposition without proof , yet how do they know that in case there had been any unbaptized persons reputed brethren amongst the churches ( especially such , the truth and validity of whose baptism had been the only question , for this is the case between us and our brethren ) that the apostle would have ranked them amongst fornicators , drunkards , idolaters , &c. and prohibited the churches of christ communion as well with the one , as with the other ? but 3. when our brethren pronounce the saints and servants of god unclean for church communion , upon a pretence only ( or be it a true plea ) of their not being baptized , do they not intrude themselves into the prerogative office of christ , making new orders , laws , and constitutions of themselves for church communion , which were never made by him ? or if they desire to be judged innocent of this great offence , let them produce from the gospel some order or law of this tenor , or import , that he that hath only been washed in the name of christ , and not dipt over head and ears , shall be unclean for christian communion , although the image of god in righteousness and true holiness be never so resplendent and lovely in him . consideration xiii . a submission unto the ordinance of baptism upon those terms on which it is obtruded by our brethren upon all sorts of beleevers , is , as themselves also acknowledg , yea and boast of ( though to the shame both of their opinion , and practise in the way ) very offensive , burthensome , and greivous to the flesh . and the truth is , that when men or women , especially being any thing weak or tender of constitution , shall in winter or cold seasons be perswaded unto it , they had need purifie themselves , as men at sea use to do ( god himself observing and reporting it , job . 41. 23. ) by reason of the breakings of leviathan , i. e. when they expect nothing but death by being wrackt by this unruly and formidable creature . yea for many to go into rivers , or ponds to be dowsed over head and ears , in such seasons , is as express a tempting god , as a passing through the fire would be . one of those poor women lately perswaded into the watery paradise about newington , had much ado to recover the air with her life , saying when she came from the water to her self , words , either these , or to a like effect ; that she was almost gon , and that well might the business of baptizing be resembled to christs death , for she was nigh unto death by it . the rest , who had somewhat a better return of their venture , yet sustained loss . there was not very long before a maid-servant living within a door or two of me , in the city , who being led ( by what spirit let understanding christians judg ) to meet with jesus christ under water , was so far from being healed of the infirmity , which she carried thither , that she brought with her out of the water the extream torture of several days together . what became of her after this , i know not . and how severely the healths , yea and lives of men and women are almost continually threatened , and sometimes severely handled , by the waters of baptismal dipping , are matters better known to many others , then my self . and if they be thus terribly austere to the flesh in the southern parts of england , what may we judg them to be in the northen parts of scotland , and in climates of far less communion with the warmth and heat of the sun , then it ? yea mr fisher himself imputes pauls being so tardy and backward to the duty of dipping , as to need such a sharp exuscitation hereunto , as he conceits the words of ananias , and now why tarriest thou , &c. do import ; he imputes ( i say ) this supposed backwardness in paul to the said supposed duty , to a sensibleness in him of some tediousness in the service * . a little before he hath these words : i know no mans flesh forward to it , further then by faith it is over-powerd . so that by consent of both parties , baptism by dipping , upon such terms , and under such circumstances as our new baptists urge the necessity of it , is a burthen exceeding grievous , and next to that which is intolerable , to the flesh : yea neither party needs be tender , upon such terms to vote it a yoke more heavy then circumcision under the law , which yet peter plainly tells the jews , was such a yoke , which neither they nor their . fathers were able to bear ; yea and upon this account , calleth the putting of it upon the necks of the disciples , a tempting of god . now therefore why tempt ye god to put a yoke upon the necks of the disciples , which , &c * . concerning the other sacramental service of the lords supper , it is sufficiently known that it is in no degree burthensome , or troublesom to the flesh , but rather of a cherishing , nourishing , and welcom import to it . nor is it ( i suppose ) the sence of our dissenting brethren , but that gospel baptism was by christ calculated and intended for babes in christ , for beleevers of the first peep ( as it were ) out of the shell , and greatest weakness , in the faith ; as on the other hand , the sacramental sevice of the supper was in like manner prepared and ordained by him for beleevers of grown stature and strength . now then i cannot but greatly wonder , that our brethren should esteem it a matter of such high impiety in us , and deserving no less censure or punishment , then excommunication it self , to judg it contrary both to the wisdom and tenderness of bowels in christ towards his saints , to provide the strongest meat for his weakest babes , and milk for his strong men ; to put his new-born babes to bear the heat and burthen of the day of christianity , whilest his old souldiers , men of strength and courage , are feasting with bread and wine at his table . considering what a stream and torrent of scriptures there are that run a head against such a notion as this , we know not how to handle our judgments or consciences to make them of this opinion , that evangelical baptism consisteth in any thing so like the piercings of a sword to the flesh , or which requireth such an overpowring of faith to subject men unto it , as our brethren themselves represent their dipping to be , and to require . nor can we with all the might of our own understandings , nor with all the additional help of the light hitherto afforded us by our brethren , tell how to beleeve or conceive , that all the land of judea , and they of ierusalem , with all the region round about iordan , were all over-powered by any such high hand of faith , who yet came thick and threefold , troops upon troops , and companies after companies , to be baptized of john , and were baptized accordingly . consideration xiv . for those who are babes in christ and weak in the faith ; yea for those , who know but in part ( and higher then thus , neither doth their knowledg it self rise , who think they know more then all the world besides ) to mistake , where ( in a manner ) all the judicious , learned , and grave , all the zealous , faithful , and best conscienced christians , and servants of god throughout the world , fathers , martyrs , reformers , and others , for sixteen generations together , even from the days of the apostles , until now , have mistaken , and not been able to discover the truth , or mind of god , is ( doubtless ) the most venial and pardonable mistake , that can well be imagined ; yea although it should be supposed that the subject matter , wherein , or about which , this mistake hath been , be of very great weight and consequence . such as this , and no whit worse or more culpable then this , is the mistake ( if yet a mistake it be ) of those churches and saints , who judg it no ways necessary , nor agreeable to the mind of christ , for them to desire a baptismal dipping , having been regularly ( as they conceive ) and sufficiently baptized in their infancy . now the common and best-known principles of reason and equity , ( and of christianity most of all ) upon mistakes of the most-venial nature , and which are incident to the best , the most watchful and faithful of men , teach men to inflict the lightest punishment , whether by censure , or otherwise ( if any at all ) that well may be . if then to judg and condemn a church , or people of god , as a spurious and unclean congregation , with whom no man can joyn in church-communion , without polluting himself in the sight of god , be an high and heavy censure ( which i presume no man questions ) then must they , who inflict this censure only upon the account of the demerit of the aforesaid mistake , needs be extreamly irregular , unrighteous , and unreasonable in so doing . and yet they who in the open view of the world , inflict it by an actual , hasty , and ( as it were ) a frightful rending and tearing off themselves from such churches , inflict it upon the hardest and most unchristian terms that can be imagined . and give me leave here only to add this ; that i know no more pregnant a symptome of a strong inchantment , delusion , or distemper , then when a petty handful of men are rank of confidence and conceit , that all the world are out of their witts , but themselves ; and that they are as so many stars of the first magnitude , and all other men but as the snuffs of so many candles . consideration xv . that baptism , how duly soever administred , is no churchmaker , but at the highest , a church-adorner ( and this possibly in some cases only too ) is evident from hence ; that the lord christ , whilst he was yet unbaptized , was as much the head , and as legitimate an head , of the church , as after his baptism . and as christ obtained not the head-ship of the church , nor right unto it , by being baptized , so neither do beleevers obtain their right to membership in a church , by their being baptized . yea it is but conjectural and traditional divinity , to affirm or hold , that all the members of all the churches in the apostles days were baptized . certain i am that baptism cannot rationally pretend to so much interest to constitute , ●● legitimate , members of christian churches under the gospel , as circumcision might to constitute the members of the iewish church under the law . yet this church was altogether as true a church , and all abrahams children by isaak as true members of this church , when and whilest they had no practise of circumcision amongst them ( as viz. during their fourty years journeying through the wilderness ) as when it was in the most regular and standing use among them . yea ( doubtless ) abraham and his family were as much the church of god , before the ordinance it self of circumcision was delivered unto him , as afterwards . and why the iewish children before the eight day , should not be judged members of that church , as well as after , i understand not . therefore without all controversie baptism is no builder of churches , although , as some men now set it on work , it is a puller of them down . nor doth it at all savour of gospel dispensation , that god should build his spiritual temple upon foundations made of a carnal ceremony , or that he should deny that poor and mean priviledg ( comparatively ) of church-membership , unto that grace ( i mean , faith ) unto which he hath vouchsafed that high and heavenly prerogative , the making of men to becom the sons of god . besides , that which is no where mentioned as commending any man , either unto god , or men , more then , or so much as , many other duties or qualifications , cannot reasonably be judged more necessary to any mans regular admission into church-fellowship , then those other things . now baptism is no where represented in the scriptures as commending any man , either unto god , or men , nor as any considerable testimony of any mans faith , vast multitudes of people having been baptized by iohn , yea and by christ himself or his disciples , whereas there were very few true beleevers amongst them ( mat. 3. 5. mar. 1. 5. luk. 7 , 21. compared with iohn . 1. 11. ioh. 3. 32 , acts. 1. 15. ) whereas other qualifications , as faith , love , righteousness , holiness , humility , the new creature , the hearing of the word , the searching of the scriptures , ( with many others of like character ) are frequently insisted upon , as matters of worthy testimony unto those , in whom they were found , yea and some of them of signal acceptance with god . therefore certainly it is a most groundless and importune conceit , to estimate the truth of a church of christ by the baptism of the members ; or to deny unto such congregations or bodies of saints , the legitimacy of church-ship , upon a pretence and conceit of their not being baptized , which are in all things , which commend a church , either unto god , or men , the glory of churches , yea and ( in the apostles sence , 2 cor. 8. 23. ) the glory of christ himself . consideration xvi . the main , if not the only , ground and reason why our newbaptizing and baptized brethren , reject the baptism , so esteemed and practised among us , is , because they suppose it to be a meer nullity , and to have nothing in it of the baptism appointed by christ . upon this their supposition they proceed with the utmost severity against us , they excommunicate us , and deliver us up to satan , that we may learn rightly to baptize . but if the lord christs rule be true , a corrupt tree cannot bring forth good fruit ( mat. 7. 18. ) and again ; that every tree is known by his own fruit ( luk. 6. 44. ) then is our baptism no corrupt baptism , but the baptism commended by christ ; or however , far from being a nullity . for it is a true rule : nonentis , nulli sunt affectus , nulla opperatio : nullities , or non-entities , have neither affections , nor effects , or operations : produce nothing which is proper to be produced by a real and truly excistent cause . but that baptism amongst us , which our brethren very inconsiderately and invita veritate , vote to be a nullity , is as efficacious , as operative , in respect of all the main ends of baptism ( the baptism i mean intended by christ ) as theirs is , or can be ; yea in respect of some of these ends , if not all , it hath the preheminency . for 1. it doth as solemnly , with as much authority and power , with as express a signification to the understandings and apprehensions of the world about us , testifie and declare us the profesed disciples and followers of jesus christ , as that baptism practized by them can do . nay in this ( which is one of the most considerable ends of baptism ) it is of the two more efficacious then theirs . for their baptism is ( comparatively ) a kind of barbarian to the world : nor do the generality of men interpret or look upon it , as any thing more significative , or assertive , of their owning the name and faith of jesus christ ; then our baptism ; which was also theirs , untill they renounced it , by substituting another in the place of it . yea the sence of the world , and of the generality of persons , amongst whom they live , is so far from being either , that by their infant-baptism they stood insufficiently declared the professed disciples of christ , or that by their new baptism they make any materiall addition unto that their declaration , that it inclines rather to this , viz. that they betake themselves to a re-baptism , more to disobliege themselves from what their infant-baptism ingaged them unto , then to strengthen or make valid that ingagement ; which , at least as they apprehend , cannot receive any addition of strength or validitie by any further baptism , but they are jealous that it may be disinabled , or at least disadvantaged , by such an after-baptism . of which apprehension i wish they had not , and yet much more , that they may not in time have , too just a ground . but however , nothing can be more evident , then that that baptism is most serviceable and efficacious to testifie or demonstrate a person , man or woman , to be a professor of , and to own , the name and faith of jesus christ in the sight of the world , whose signification and import in this behalf is best known unto the world . if so , then is our baptism , as valid , as efficacious , in respect of this great end of baptism , as our brethrens new baptism can be ; and consequently , is far from being a nullity . 2. our baptism is altogether as operative , as bearing , as ingaging upon our judgments and consciences , to become the reall , loyall , and true disciples of jesus christ , as theirs can be upon theirs , or could be upon ours , should we come under it . for out of the sence and conscience we have that we have been baptized , and still own and stand by that our baptism , we expect no other but the severest judgment and condemnation , which belong to covenant-breakers with their god , from his hand , if we shall be found unfaithfull under this our baptismall ingagement . and certain i am , that our brethrens new-baptism can have no richer , no fuller , no more vigorous or potent an influence upon their judgements and conscience in this kind , then so . i wish that theirs may hold weight with ours in this ballance . if our baptism , whilst it was theirs also , had not the same weight of engagement upon their consciences , which it hath upon ours , have they reason to judge us for it , and not rather themselves ? therefore in respect of this great end also of baptism , ours is no whit more a nullitie , then theirs . 3. ( and lastly ) nor can we , or they ( reasonably , and upon ground ) judge that our baptism ( as we call baptism ) is less edifying , strengthening , comforting , to the inner man , then theirs . our souls , through the grace and goodness of our good god unto us , have prospered as much under that baptism which we own , and by means of it ( as far as we are able to compute ) as we can , upon consultation had with al oracles that are like to inform us in the point , expect they would , or should have done , under that baptism , whose threshold our brethren place so neer the threshold of christ himself . i beleeve there are thousands yet abiding under our baptism , who would not willingly exchange spirituall estates with the best of those , who to better their estates in this kind , have sought security under the wing and shelter of a new baptism : yea i make very little question , but that if our brethren of this new baptism ( at least many of them ) would deal ingeniously and freely ( and what is this but christianly ? ) with us in the point , they would acknowledge and confess , that they carried far the greater part of that spirituall treasure , of which they are at present possest , from under that baptism which they forsook , unto that which they have taken in exchange for it . yea i heartily wish for the sake of some of them , whom i know , that their new baptism doth not help to diminish their old grace . therefore in respect of this great end also and benefit of baptism , the building up of the inner man in grace and peace , our baptism is no whit behind theirs ; but , if experience will be allowed to umpire , much before it . i know no other end of baptism but what is easily reduceable to one of these three . set them then to judg ( as the apostle speaketh in another case ) who are least esteemed in the church , whether that baptism be like to be a nullity , which acts and performs , and this with authority and power , all the ends , services , purposes and intents of baptism ; yea and in most of them , if not in all , quits it self at a more worthy rate of efficacy and success , then that which pretends to the honour of being the sole reality and truth . consideration xvii . it is no where to be found in scripture , that any church of christ , or imbodied society of beleevers , was commanded by god , or christ , or his apostles , to be dipped ; nor yet threatened , or reproved by any of them , for the non-practise of dipping . if this be denyed , let the scriptures , one , or more be produced ( for as yet none have been ) for the justification of such a denyal . is it not then presumption in the highest , and an assuming of an anti christian power , to impose laws upon christian societies , which the lord christ never imposed ; yea and to censure and scandalize them with the odious and reproachful terms of anti-christian , and unclean , only for the transgressions of their own laws ? nor will it serve the turn , to pretend , that it is to be found in scripture , that particular members of churches or imbodied societies of saints , are commanded to be dipped , and by consequence , that churches , or whole churches , ought to be so likewise . for ( besides that this is contrary to the avouched principles of those , who are like thus to pretend , who affirm , that the scripture no where reports , or makes , any person a member of a church , but only such who were dipped , before they entred that relation , and consequently could have no such command imposed on them , being now members ) it followeth not , that because some particular members of a body were required to be dipped , therefore the whole body was commanded to be dipped likewise ; especially not upon such terms , that unless it would be thus wholy , universally , and in all its members dipt , it should be unclean in the sight of god and men , and all communion with it sinful . therefore they who impose such a law as this upon christian churches , or societies , and make them heynous transgressors for the breach of it , punishing and censuring them accordingly , are usurpers of the high prerogative of god , and of christ , claiming and exercising a lordship over the faith and consciences of men . consideration xviii . yea i beleeve it is more then the greatest oracle of baptismal dipping under heaven , will ever be able to prove to the satisfaction of a conscience christianly considerate , that there is any precept or command of christ in the scriptures , whereby it is made sinful for any person whatsoever , not only not to be diped , but to be not so much as baptized in one form , or other . for first , certain it is , that it is no sin unto any person whatsoever to be un-dipt , whilest there is no person to be found sufficiently authorized by christ to administer dipping unto him . and however the camel be swallowed whole , either by the largness of the consciences , or by the scantness of the understandings , of our metropolitan dippers , yet is it not so easie for them to justifie the authentiqueness or validity of that commission , by which they act ( without fear or trembling ) the parts of dippers . but of this elswhere . secondly , that precept of christ , mat. 28. 19. which ( as far as i understand ) they make their cheif treasure to support them in their wars against their brethren , doth at no hand make those transgressors , who are not dip-wise baptized , no nor yet those who are not baptized , either so , or otherwise . for first , here is no precept , charge , or command given unto any person , one or more , but unto the apostles only . go ye therefore [ i. e. ye apostles ] and teach all nations , baptizing them , &c. now as a law imposed upon a magistrate for the discharge of his office , doth not make a subject guilty by his non-performance of it , nay he [ the subject ] should be more guilty , in case he should observe it : so neither doth a charge layd by christ upon his apostles in reference to their special office & ministry , oblige any other sort of men to the observation of it * secondly , in these words , baptizing them , it cannot reasonably be conceived that they were injoyned to baptize any person , or persons . against their wills , or whether they would , or no . no , nor is it a matter of easie resolution , what is the antecedent or substantive to this relative pronoun , them ; or whom , or what persons they are , whom our saviour here authorizeth his apostles to baptize . therefore , thirdly , here being no command layd upon any person to be baptized , or to desire baptism of the apostles , it clearly follows , that the apostles are here injoyned only to baptize such persons , who shall freely and voluntarily require the same at their hand . nor , fourthly , can it be proved from these words , teaching them to observe all things , whatsoever i have commanded them , that the apostles did teach saints , beleevers , or others , to require baptism of them , unless it were first proved , that this was one particular of those things , which christ commanded his apostles to teach the nations to observe . but i beleeve there is no day in the year auspicious for our new baptists to undertake the proof of this . nor , fifthly , do we find , that the apostles in the course of their ministry , did ever teach either church or person , to demand , or seek baptism at their hand ; much less threaten them , or charge them with disobedience unto christ for not seeking it . sixthly , in case it should be granted , that the apostles by the tenor and vertue of their commission , might , and did , teach beleevers to observe the law of requiring baptism at their hands , yet it followeth not from hence , that by vertue of this commission they had power also given them to make it a standing law for all pastors and teachers to the worlds end , who were to succeed them in the preaching the gospel , to impose the observation of the same law upon all beleevers ; considering 1. that water-baptism , as appears partly by the express intentions of god about it in the first setting it on foot in the world , ioh. 1. 31. partly also , in that there is never mention made of any administration of baptism in any place , but only upon the first coming or preaching of the gospel therein , although there were never so many converted to the faith in the same place afterwards ( i mean , upon a second publication of the gospel in this place ) acts. 2. 41. compared with acts. 4. 4 , & 5. 14 , & 9. 42 , and 19. 3. with vers. 18. by these two considerations ( i say ) it fully appears that water-baptism was never intended by god , but either only or chiefly , for an introductory or planting ordinance i. e. to attend the gospel for a time at its first coming unto , and reception by a people , citty , or nation , until it should get some considerable rooting , and interest amongst them , not for a staple or standing ordinance in one and the same place ( whereof good reason might be given , but that we are now upon a pin of brevity . ) secondly , that wheresoever , either the work and office of pastors and teachers , or their qualifications are described , or the intentions of god in , and about the erections of them in the church declared , there is not the least mention made either of any charge given them to baptize , nor of any qualifications requisite in those , who should baptize , nor of any intent of god , or of christ , that they should baptize . see and compare 1 tim. 3. 1 , 2 , 4 , &c. 2 tim. 4. 1 , 2. tit. 1. 7 , 8. ephes. 4. 11 , 12 , 13 , 14. thirdly , when the apostle paul directeth timothy to commit unto faithful men , the things which he had heard of him among many witnesses , the end why he thus directeth him , is signified in these words , who be able to teach others also ( 2 tim. 2. 2. ) plainly intimating , that what is deriveable from the apostles unto standing pastors and teachers , respects cheifly , if not only , their abilities to teach , or preach the gospel . seventhly , concerning these words , and lo i am with you to the end of the world ; neither do these necessarily prove , that a ministeriall or actually baptizing should continue to the end of the world , at least not in all parts or places in the world , where the ministery of the gospel should be continued . for 1. jerom conceiveth that the apostles themselves are here said to live , and so to teach and baptize , to the end of the world , viz. in and by , their writings and other labours in the ministry : and that the presence of christ with them to the end of the world here promised , importeth , 1 his directing , strengthening , and incouraging presence , whilest they continued in the body ; and 2 his assisting presence with them in their writings and other labours faithfully performed in the work of the gospel , whereby these should prosper and bring forth fruit to the end of the world . this is no hard or far fetcht interpretation . a yet 2. be it granted , that christ here promiseth his presence , not unto the apostles alone , but to all their successors in teaching and baptizing , ( though a substantial proof of this requires more , i fear , then all the abilities of our brethren of the dip are able to perform ) yet neither will it follow from hence , that they who should succeed them in both , should baptize upon any other terms then the apostles themselves did , yea or are recorded in the scriptures to have done . now ( as we lately observ'd ) it is no where reported of them , or any of them , that they ever baptized in any place , but onely at , and upon , their first bringing of the name of christ , and the gospel thereunto , in case it found any competent entertainment and settlement there . but , eightly , ( and lastly ) grant we all that can either reasonably or unreasonably be demanded from the words in hand , on the behalf of those , who were , and are , to succeed the apostles in the work of the gospel , viz. ministers and teachers , and that christ promiseth his presence with them , as well in baptizing , as in teaching ; yet what presence of his is here promised to private christians , in their administrations of baptisme ? surely when they baptize , christ is not with them in the work ; how much less when persons of this character shall put forth their hand to touch the ark of baptism , who are not so much as baptized themselves ? and yet a baptism administred upon such polluted terms as these , is the mother and foundress of all those baptizmall administrations , for which our brethren so importunately magnifie themselves against us . to plead , that a person unbaptized , may administer baptism in a case of necessity , is a sufficient plea indeed thus understood ; viz. 1. when god himself adjudgeth and determines the case of necessity ; and 2. authorizeth from heaven any person , one or more , for the work , as he did john baptist . otherwise vzzah had as good , or better reason to judge that a case of necessity , in which he put forth his hand to stay the ark , then our first unhallowed and undipt dipper in this nation , had to call that a case of necessity , wherein , to the sad disturbance of the affairs of the gospel , yea and of the civil peace also , he set up the dipping trade . we do not intend that any thing hitherto argued in the consideration in hand , should be taken as meant for a positive or demonstrative proof , that the ordinance of baptism is now extinct , or not administrable without sin in the world ; but rather as a demonstration partly of the many labyrinths and difficulties , which they ought to overcom and clear , who are so confidently positive and assertive of the contrary ; partly of the most unreasonable and importune practise of those , who pronounce all men unworthy of christian communion , who are not as positive and assertive in matters of so doubtful disputation , as themselves . consideration xix . {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , i. e. variances , emulations , animosities , contentions , divisions [ or seditions ] sects * , are by the holy ghost himself adjudged works of a the flesh , and such which are manifest ; yea and are ranged in the middle between , adultery , fornication , uncleanness , wantonness , idolatry , witchcraft , hatred , on the one hand , and , envyings murthers , drunkenness , revellings , and such like , on the other hand . concerning all which , joyntly and severally the apostle denounceth this heavy sentence : of which i tell you before , as i have also told you in times past , that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of god . gal. 5 , 19 , 20. 21. [ meaning , without repentance ] now how can men and women in any other way , or upon any other account , more manifestly , or more directly incur the guilt of the said sins of variances , emulations , animosities , seditions , sects , ( at least of some , if not of the most of them , and consequently the dreadfull doom of being excluded from the kingdom of god ) then by labouring in the very fire to trouble , disturb , rend , tear , dismember , break into sects and factions , such churches or bodies of saints , who until now were walking holily , and humbly with their god in unity , love , and peace , edyfiing one another in their most holy faith , with all good conscience observing all ordinances of god made known unto them for such , and ready and willing further to abserve all other , that should in like manner be made known unto them ? or can any pretence or plea whatsoever render the children of such high misdemeanors excusable before the judgment seat of christ ? i draw out my whole heart and soul in requests unto my god , that he will graciously awaken the consciences of such persons , who whilst they pull down , what christ hath built up , and scatter , what he hath gathered together , think they do him service . certainly never were the sins of variance , emulation , wrath , strife , church-seaition , schism , commited in the world by men , nor can it be imagined how they should be commited , if they who quarrel , trouble , rend and tear off themselves , labour in the very fire to rend and tear off others , from christian churches and congregations , only for dissenting from them in their private conceits about the ceremony of baptism , be not guilty of them . the contentions , rents and schisms in the catholique church , so deeply complained of , bewailed , and opposed by the fathers of old , were , according to a true estimate , but as shadows of these sins , and of light demerit , in comparison . consideration xx . when some of the brethren of the church at ierusalem were unsatisfied about that which peter did , in going to the gentiles at cornelius his house in cesarea , and having communion with them , peter , in order to their satisfaction , and his own justification in holding communion with them , doth not insist upon , nor so much as mention , or hint , their being baptized , but only the gift of the holy ghost given unto them by god in testimony of their faith . for as much then ( saith he ) as god gave them the like gift as he did unto us , who beleeved on the lord jesus christ , who , or what , was i that i could withstand god ? acts 11. 17. where ( by the way ) it is observable , that peter judged that a withstanding of god which our brethren call a serving , or an obeying of god ; i mean , a refusing of communion with those , concerning whose faith in jesus christ he had received satisfaction . upon the said account given by peter , it follows ( vers. 18. ) when they heard these things , they held their peace and glorified god , saying , then hath god also to the gentiles granted repentance unto life . from whence it is evident , that neither did peter himself , nor yet the brethren of this church at ierusalem , look upon baptism , as essential to christian communion , or as absolutely necessary to be found in those , with whom this communion may lawfully be held . for if so , why did not peter rather insist upon their baptism , then the testimony of their beleeving , for his vindication in holding communion with them ? yea and why did not those who contended with him about his said act of communion , make some such objection as this against his plea ( instead of being satisfied with it ) why dost thou tell us of the falling of the holy ghost upon these gentiles , or of their beleeving ? what is this to justifie thee in going in unto them ? tell us were they baptized , or no ? certainly both peters silence of baptism in his plea , and their silence in not inquiring after it for their satisfaction , divisim and conjunctim prove , that baptism in these days was looked upon as no foundation essentially requisite to build church communion upon . for that that communion with the gentiles , about which peter was now questioned at ierusalem , was constructively at least such a communion , is evident ; 1. because peter for his justification therein , pleads the falling of the holy ghost upon them as a testimony from god of their beleeving in christ , which is no proper or necessary plea for the justification of the lawfulness of any other communion . 2. that communion which consisted in any kind of eating with men , was by the jews , who were the men that now contended with peter about his communion with the gentiles , interpreted as an acknowledging and owning of them in relation unto god , and as persons in covenant with him . in which respect they judged it unlawful for a jew to sit at table , and eat meat with an unproselyted gentile , as appears from luk. 5. 30. and sundry other places . yea our saviour himself looked upon a regular forbearance of communion in this case , as a matter of religion , and of like nature with the offering of sacrifice , mat. 9. 13. compared with ver. 10. 11. to pretend that that communion , which peter had with these gentiles , was after , not before , their baptizing , is little to the purpose . for that their baptizing was meerly accidental and irrelative to his communion with them , appears clearly 1. because he builds his justification in it upon quite another foundation ( as we have heard ) viz. the gift of the holy ghost unto them in testimony of their beleeving ( which notwithstanding our brethren judg insufficient to justifie them in a like communion , unless it be eeked out with a baptizing . ) 2. because , they who demanded , and expected ( if were to be had ) a plenary satisfaction of that act of peter in communicating with them , were fully satisfied with the account mentioned , making no question for conscience sake about their baptizing . in like manner this very church at ierusalem , a while before , had admitted paul into their communion , only upon barnabas his declaring unto them that he had seen the lord in the way , and that he had spoken to him , and how he had preached boldly at damascus in the name of jesus , ( acts. 9. 27. ) without having heard the least inkling of his baptizing . yea it may be a question whether barnabas himself knew that he had been baptized : but however if he did know it , it is scarce a question , but that being now to prepare him a way into communion with this church , he would have represented his baptism , if he had judged the knowledg hereof necessary for this church , before they could lawfully receive him into their communion . yea a little before this , ananias at damascus had given him the right hand of christian fellowship in calling him , brother , before he was baptized . therefore our brethrens conceit of such an absolute necessity of baptism in order to church-fellowship , as they dream of , is but an apocryphal dream , without footing or foundation in the scriptures . how much more is the emphasis of this their conceit apocryphal , which beareth , not that baptism simply , but baptism according to their model of circumstances in every circumstantial punctillo administred , is of this soveraign and sacred necessity to qualifie and capacitate for church-communion ? do they affect to be either more wise or more holy then god ? consideration xxi . when christ ascended up on high , it is said that he led captivity captive , and gave gifts unto men ; some , apostles ; and some , prophets : and some evangelists : and some pastors , and teachers , for the perfecting of the saints , for the work of the ministery , and for the edifying of the body of christ , &c. ephes. 4. 8 , 11 , 12. from hence it appeareth by as cleer a light as any the sun shineth at noon day ▪ that christs gift of pastors , and teachers , was intended by him , not with limitation to saints baptized , or for the perfecting of them , but to saints simply and in general , whether baptized , or unbaptized , or ( which is the same ) to all saints without exception of any , in as much as the body of christ consists of all these , according to that 2 thes. 1. 10. when he shall come to be glorified in his saints , and to be admired in all them that beleeve . now if pastors and teachers were given by christ that all saints , one or other , baptized or unbaptized , should be perfected by them , and the whole body of christ edifyed , then certainly they have all right to church-fellowship , in as much as pastors and teachers have their callings only by , and residence in churches . neither are they in any capacity , or probable way of perfecting them , but only when , and whilst , they are incorporated with them in their churches ( respectively . ) if men will not allow the priviledg of church-membership unto the saints deemed by them unbaptized , do they not herein rise up against the councel and gracious intendments of jesus christ towards them for their perfecting ? fighting against christ is a sin most dreadsully terrible , whe●e forgiveness cannot be pleaded in prayer for the siners upon this account , for they know not what they do . but i trust , ignorance is the mother of that sad devotion of our brethren , whereby they reject , yea oppose , the councel of christ concerning his saints . consideration xxii . besides the many reasons and arguments in our way ( many of them of great pregnancy and strength , as they seem in our eye ) which seperate between our judgments , and the necessity , yea or expediency , of a baptismal dipping ( which reasons may be published in due time ) we have some discou●agements and disswasiv●s upon us otherwise from that way . first , we understand by books and writings of such authority and credit , that we have no ground at all ●o question their truth , that that generat●on of men , whose judgments have gone wondering after dipping , and rebaptizing , have from the very first original and spring of them since the late reformation , been very troublesome and turbulent in all places where they have encreased to any numbers considerable ; and wiser men then i are not a little jealous over the peace of this nation , lest it should suffer , as other places formerly have done , from the tumultuous and domine●ring spirit of this sort of men so numerously prevailing as they do . there is a strong tide of report both from ireland and scotland , that as far as the interest and power , so far the insolency also and importune haughtiness of that generation we speak of , extendeth in both these nations , and that all persons , of what integrity or worth soever otherwise , who are not enlightened with their darkness about their dipping , are troden under foot like unsavory salt , and judged unmeet for any place of trust or power with them , being allowed only the preferements of drawing water , and hewing wood . one of this faction or party in england ( and he no small begger neither ) speaking of a person , who , though not of his judgment about the necessity of dipping , yet otherwise a man ( to my knowledg ) that had very well deserved of that way in several respects , as well publique , as private , yet speaking ( i say ) of this person , he said in the prefence of several persons of quality , that he deserved to be hanged ; an aphorism consonant to the later saying of a preacher of that way about the city , who in discourse with a person ( walking in communion with me ) about his judgment , and being ( as it seems ) worsted in the skirmish , at last recovered all the ground he had lost with this or the like , epiphonema ; that she might find her church at tyburn , and the gallows . these words i regard but as muck , notwithstanding it may concern others to look after the fire . but surely these men , when they come into their kingdom of authority and power , will execute judgment and justice without partiality . if so , then , he that deserveth to be hanged , must expect no better quarter then that of the halter : and if justice be administred without partiality , all that are in the same condemnation of anti-dipping with him , may bear him company in the same expection . let no man think that because i write these things , i do not walk charitably towards the persons of the men , of whom i speak , or that i bear in my spirit the least touch or tincture of any sinister affection against the worst of them . my principles ( i confess ) are too lofty and stiff to honour any mans unworthiness whatsoever , so far , as for the sake thereof to become his enemy . jesus christ with the hand of his grace hath taken my gall out of my bowels , and divided it between sin and satan . my conscience beareth me witness in the holy ghost , that as i have been cordially and christianly respectful and friendly unto these men , as far as i have had opportunity to serve them , so am i still ready to bow down and lick the dust at the feet even of the meanest of them , and of him amongst them , who ever he be , that is my greatest enemy , for their spiritual , yea or temporal accommodation . nor do i deny , or doubt , but that as amongst the pharisees , though a generation of vipers a , there were some who beleeved in christ b ; so among those , who have been baptized in their own water , some there are baptized into the spirit of christ , and upright in the sight of god . but the israelites being mingled amongst the heathen , in time learned their works c and the nightingale ( some say ) by conversing among sparrows , will forget her native notes , and learn to chirp . moreover , those things were not in hazael's heart , whilest he was yet a subject , which were afterwards ingendered there , when he came to be king over syria d . secondly , there is scarce any of those worthy instruments , luther , calvin , beza , bucer , peter martyr , musculus , bullinger , with others of like name and worth ( almost ) without number , whose piety , zeal and faithfulness in conjunction with their singular gifts , and abilities of learning , god was pleased to honour and use in the glorious work of the reformation , and in the deseace and propagation of the reformed religion unto this day , but in their writings , commentaries upon the scriptures , and others , very frequently and upon all occasion take up most sad complaints against this generation of men , as enemies to the progress of the gospel , and by their unchristian and unworthy carriages , causing the good word of god and the reformed religion to be evil spoken of , and reproached by the adversaries thereof in the world . thirdly , we understand by the records of former times , and our own experience time after time informeth us in part , that many of the best , and most considerate persons , who have been for some time engaged in that way , after full tryal of it , have forsaken it , as not finding god , or christ , in it . fourthly , we understand by frequent and very credible informations , & some of us are able to testifie as much upon our own knowledg and experience , that in some of thier religious assemblies and conventions there is no considerable presence of god with them ; that there is little taught amongst them with any evidence or demonstration of the spirit , with any authority and power ; that the scriptures are very defectively and lamely opened and applyed , ever and anon wrested to the countenancing and magnifying of their own private conceit and notion about baptism ; and that the greatest part of the time , during these meetings , is spent in fruitless altercations , and vain janglings . nor know we any ground to beleeve that it is much better in those other congregations of these men , which we know not , then it is in those which we know . fifthly , another thing of little less discouragement unto us then the former , is , that there have been , and still are extant , three or four several editions , or man-devised modes , of dipping , every latter pretending to correct the insufficiency , irregularity , or inconvenience , of the former . in regard whereof , some ( we understand ) instead of being once baptized , have been dipped three or four times over , thus committing that sin in baptism , which christ prohibits in prayer , the sin , i mean , of vain repetitions . so that in case our consciences did lead us to a baptismal dipping , yet should we be at a loss concerning the particular mode or form , which is agreeable to the mind of christ , there being so many competitors for this honour . and for the mode of the latest and newest invention , and which ( as we understand ) is of greatest esteem , it is , as far as we are able to conceive by the representation of it made unto some of us , so contrived , and so to be managed , that the baptist , who dippeth according to it , had need be a man of stout limbs , and of a very able and active body : otherwise the person to be baptized , especially if in any degree corpulent or unwieldy , runs a great hazard of meeting with christs latter baptism * instead of his former . and if this manner of baptizing were in use in the apostles days , it is no great marvel that paul , being a man little and low of stature ( as history reports him , and himself overtures , 2 cor , 10 , 1 , 10. ) cared so little and seldom to adventure upon the work . and yet should we hesitate in our consciences much more , where to find a competent person amongst them authorized by god to administer such a kind of baptism unto us . for we are not yet baptized into the belief of either of these doctrines ; either , 1. that a person unbaptized , may , without a special call or warrant from god , like unto that of john baptist , luke 3. ● . undertake the administration ; or , 2. that that was a case of necessity , wherein either nicholas stork ( with his three comrades ) in germany about the year 1521 , or whoever he was that first , himself being in his own judgment and conscience un-baptized , presumed to baptize others after that exotique mode in this nation . nor are we convinced or clear in our judgments , that any of those , who have been dipped amongst us , have been rightly baptized , if it be supposed that true baptism consists in a total immersion , or submersion , by him that baptizeth ; because the baptized themselves are wont to submerge the greater part of their bodies , before the baptist comes at them ; and so are rather se-baptized , then baptized according to what the scripture seems to speak concerning baptism . besides , we do not read in the scriptures of any baptismal boots , or baptismal breeches , or of shifting garments to avoyd the danger of being baptized , or of encircling women with women after their coming from the water to salve their modesty , with some other devices now , or of late in frequent use amongst our new baptists in the way of their practise . all these things narrowly considered , minister a ground of vehement suspition unto us , left the whole story of baptismal diping should prove apocryphal . sixthly , another thing much discouraging and disswading unto us from the way mentioned , is , that they who have passed over the bridg of anabaptism , can find ( as it seems ) no firm ground to stand on on the other side , but are ever and anon shifting their judgments and their practises , running out into strange and uncouth opinious , heaping up observation upon observation : yea their own churches and congregations , notwithstanding their high purification by baptism , are sometimes unclean to them ; in so much that they divide , and subdivide , yea and are ready to divide again their divisions . seventhly , whereas antichrist himself is not more antichristian , then in claiming and exercising such a dominion over the faith of his proselytes and disciples , by vertue whereof he commandeth them to depend only upon ministers and teachers of his own faith and wicked perswasion in matters of religion , severely prohibiting unto them the hearing of protestant preachers ; we understand that the same high-imposing spirit domineers more generally in the churches and congregations which have been dipt ; and that they also solemnly conjure all their proselytes and converts not to hear jesus christ himself speaking by any other mouth , then theirs ; thus bearing them in hand , as if a voyce from heaven like unto that , which was heard by the people at christs baptism concerning him , had come unto them also in reference to themselves and their teachers , in this or the like tenor of words : we are the only true churches and ministers of christ : hear vs . yea there was of late a very great schism made in one of these churches , and the greater part aposynagoguized by the lesser , because of the high misdemeanor of some of the members in hearing the words of eternal life from the mouths of such ministers , who follow not them in their way . such principles and practises as these we judg to be most notoriously and emphatically anti-christian , and such wherein ( as was said in a like case ) the very horns and hoofs of the beast may be felt and handled . yea we cannot but judg them to be of most pernicious consequence to the precious souls of men , as depriving them of the best means and opportunities which god most graciously affordeth unto them for their recovery out of all such snares , wherein at any time their foot may be taken . this is another grand discouragement unto us from that way . eighthly , we observe , that ( more generally ) when men or women have suffered themselves to be intangled with a conceit of that way ; especially when they have bowed down their judgments and consciences unto it , they are presently found in that sad condition and distemper , wherein the apostle perc●ived the galatians , upon their subjection to the yoke of circumcision , when he demanded of them , who hath bewitched you a ? for as these were so strangely besotted and dissensed with their notion of circumcision and legal observations , that the apostle himself feared b that he should not be able to deliver them , no not by the clearest arguments and demonstrations of the vanity and danger of their new notion , and practise : so are the reasons , judgments and understandings of the persons we speak of , so stupified , distraught and confounded with the admiration of their water-work , and their airy conceits about it , that all reason opposing it , is a barbarian unto them ; common sence is a mystery inaccessible to their understandings , the light of the noon-day offering to discover any nakedness in their way , is as dark as the darkness of mid-night it self : men of sound and serious intellectuals are as men that speak unto them in a strange tongue , if they speak any thing against their way . they know not valleys from hills , nor hills from valleys , rivers from trees , nor trees from rivers , halfs from wholes , nor wholes from halfs , precepts from promises , nor promises from precepts , ceremony from substance , nor substance from ceremony ; every distinction that attempts to shew them the error of their way , ipso facto becomes a chaos and confusion . on the other hand , for the maintenance and defence of their way , the shadows of mountains seem valiant and armed men ; stubble and rotten wood , are turned into weapons of steel and iron before them ; letter becomes spirit , face becomes heart , promise becomes precept , ceremony becomes substance , apostles become ordinary men and women , disputeables become demonstrations , and peradventures become all yeas and amens . in respect of these marvellous and sad distempers in their fancies and understandings , to reason with them about their way , or to endeavor their conviction , seldom turns to any better account then a beating of the ayr , or then diogenes his begging applications to the statues of men . but ninethly ( and lastly ) the first born of all discouragements unto us in this kind , is , that which our eyes dayly see , and our ears oft hear , and wherewith our hearts are continually made sad within us , viz. that the generality or far greater part of those , who turn aside into this way , do , some more suddenly , others by degrees , impair and decline in their graces , lose that sweetness , meekness , love , and christian humility of spirit , wherewith they were formerly adorned , as if they were baptized in marah a , or in the waters of the red sea . never did we know any that by being dipped added thereby so much as an hairs bredth to his spiritual stature , or that became in any degree either more meek , or more humble , or more patient , or more merciful , or more mortifyed , self-denying , or the like ; but very many have we known and heard of , who upon such an engagement have made shipwrack of much spiritual treasure , wherewith god had blessed them under their first baptism . many have we known , who went into the water , lambs , and came out of it wolves and tygers : many who went in , doves , and came out , serpents ; as if they had met with the spirit that rules in the ayr under the water , in stead of the sweet spirit of christ . yea we have known some , who soon after their dipping have perpetrated and done things so unworthy and unsutable to their former genius , which if any man had challenged them before their dipping , that they would do after , we have reason to judg they would have replied to the challenge , as hazael did to elisha in somewhat a like case ; but what is thy servant a dog that he should do this great thing ? 2 king. 8. 13. so many sad spectacles and stories , wherewith our eyes and ears are fill'd from time to time , especially not being ballanced or counterpoysed with any thing desireable , or of moment , put us into some fears , lest as god , in his just , though secret judgment , gives sathan a permission to haunt some houses , and to misuse and terrifie those that shall lodg in them ; so he should , for causes best known to himself ( though somewhat might with good probability be conjectured in this kind ) have granted unto this enemy of mankind somewhat a like power , over the opinion and practise of rebaptizing , and to tempt those , who suffer themselves to be intangled with them , more dangerously and prevailingly , then those , who in simplicity of heart walk before him in the contrary way . we are not definitive in this ; but only crave leave ( without offence ) to make known our fears . and however , god having multiplied grace , mercy and peace unto us in that way of his worship , wherein at present we walk , we judge it no christian prudence to tempt him in another . but whether our brethren have any just cause to cast us out of their communion , for not forsaking a way of experienced peace and safety , to walk in a way of so much danger , as that they seek to conjure us into , we leave to their own consciences , and to all considering men , to judg and determine . consideration xxiii . the consideration that sealeth unto me the conclu●ency and force of all the former , against the practise of church-rending upon the p●etence of undipt members , is , the invalidity of any thing that hath been yet brought to light ( and i presume of all that ever will , or can be ) in justification of it . 1. it is not true , ( is hath been sufficiently proved ) that circumcision was constitutive of the jewish church , or gave being of membership to all the leg●●imate members of it . or if this could be made good , yet would it not follow from hence , that therefore baptism must needs constitute the christian church . for what though it be supposed that baptism succeedeth in the place of circumcision ( a supposition , which though true and demonstrable enough , yet neither lives , nor dyes , to me ) yet it followeth not , that it should succeed it in all its circumstantial ends and relations . solomon succeeded david in his kingdom , yet he did not succeed him in his wives or concubines , or any his relations of affinity . 2. nor do the contents of act. 2. 41. prove , so much as in f●ce , or appearance , that baptism is of the essence of a church-member . for , 1. those who are said to have been baptized ( in the former part of the verse ) are not said ( in the latter ) to have been added to the church , but simply , {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , they were added , or added to . if the question be , to what , or to whom they were added , if not to the church ; the holy ghost himself may inform you , expressing himself more plainly in a like case , act. 11. 24. and much people was added to the lord . and , 2. it is said , act. 2 , 47. and the lord added unto the church , who ? such as were baptized ? no : but , such as should be saved , or , {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , i. e. those who are , or were , saved , or delivered , viz. from the general impiety of the jewish nation , which was , not by being baptized , but by beleeving . 3. ( and lastly for this ) in case their baptizing having been mentioned in the former part of the verse , it should been said ( in the latter ) that they were added unto the church , yet {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} would not have proved {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} ; the recording of their addition to the church after their being baptized , will not prove this addition to have been made by vertue , or by means of their baptizing . in the former part of the verse , ioh. 6. 49. christ telleth the jews that their fathers did eat manna in the wilderness : he subjoyneth in the latter , and are dead . will any man reason from hence ; because this eating manna is reported in the former part of the verse , and their death , or being dead , in the latter ; therefore their death was caused by their eating of manna . 3. nor doth that of the apostle , 1 cor. 12. 13. make any whit more ( if not rather less ) for church-constitution by baptism , then the former . for , 1. when the apostle saith , by one spirit we are all baptized into one body , it is not necessary we should understand him to speak of water-baptisw ; because , 1. here is another element expresly named , wherein this baptism might be administred , viz. the spirit , whereas there is no mention of water at all . 2. the phrase of being baptized with the spirit , or with the holy ghost ( as {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , might have been translated here , as it is in all other places of like construction , as viz. mat. 3. 11. mar. 1. 8. luk. 3. 16. ioh. 1 , 33. acts 1. 5 , acts 11 , 16. ) is most usual and frequent in the scriptures ( as the several texts now cited sufficiently declare ; ) whereas , to be with , or through , the spirit , baptized with water , is an uncouth and hard expression , no where found in the scriptures , nor carrying any regular sence in it . 3. if the unity or oneness of the body here spoken of , did , or doth depend upon their baptizing with water , and was caused by this , it had been impertinent for the apostle to mention the unity of the spirit , for we by one spirit are all , &c. he should rather have insisted upon the oneness , or same-ness of water baptism ( as he doth , ephes. 4. 5. ) 4. the unity or oneness of the body , of which the apostle speaks , is not so much , or so proper , an effect of water-baptism , no nor of the oneness of this baptism ( if it be any effect of either at all ) is of the spirit , by which this body is inspired , animated , acted , and moved , and the members of it knit together , and kept from dissolution . 5. whether all the members of the body were baptized with water , or no , is uncertain . the apostle expresly professeth that he baptized [ viz. with water ] very few of them ; and who else should baptize them all , no where appears ; whereas that they were all with , or by , the spirit baptized into the same body [ i. e. perswaded and over-ruled in their judgments and consciences to imbody themselves in a profession of the faith of jesus christ , and of the gospel ] is unquestionable . 6 , the spirit is no where said to baptize men with water by or through the spirit . 7. though there be no express mention in the vers either of god , or of christ , who elsewhere ( the one , or the other ) are said to baptize with the spirit , those who are thus baptived , yet verse . 6. god is named , and this under the consideration of his unity , or sameness , as working all in all : but it is the same god that worketh all in all . and in the next verse it is said ; but the manifestation of the spirit is given unto every man , &c. [ meaning , by god , mentioned in the verse preceding . ] besides , there is nothing more familiat in the scriptures , then to express such actions , which are proper unto god , or christ , indefinitely , and without the mention of either . all power is given unto me [ saith christ , meaning by god his father ] in heaven and in earth , matth. 28. 18. instances of this construction , see matth. 12. 37. and 25. 29. philip . 4. 12. ( besides many others . ) yea actions appropriate , whether to angels , or men , are sometimes thus expressed . 8. the resemblance which the apostle borrowed ( in the verse next preceding that in hand ) from the natural body , sheweth that the unity or oneness of that church body of which he here speaketh , is not such an oneness which accrueth unto it by water-baptism , or any external rite or ceremony , but by the oneness and sameness of that spirit , by which it is ( as it were ) inform'd inwardly , and supported in life , and spiritual being . for as the body ( saith he ) is one , and hath many members , and all the members of that one body , being many , are one body : so is christ ; intimating , that as the natural body , notwithstanding the plurality and diversity of its members , yet is , is made , or becometh , one intire body , not by any external or accidental thing befalling , or done unto , every of these members respectively , but by that spirit of life which diffuseth it self into all and every of these members proportionably , and so by means of the oneness or sameness of it , causeth a joynt coalition and natural consent in all these members to constitute and make one and the same entire body ; so is the mystical or spiritual body of christ made , and doth become , one and the same body in its kind , notwithstanding the great number and difference of the persons , who are the members of it , by means of that spirit , and his unity and sameness , which communicates himself inwardly unto them all , raising and begetting in them an holy consent to love and serve , and accommodate one another , much after the same manner , as the natural members in that other body do . 9. nor is it any ways probable , that in that clause , {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , translated , and have been made to drink into one spirit , the apostle speaketh of the sacramental drinking in the supper ; 1. because drinking , or the sup , in this sacrament , is never found mentioned apart , or without mention of the bread in the same contexture of scripture with it . 2. to say that they , who have before this their drinking , received the same spirit , are made to drink [ at the lords table ] for , into , or unto , the same spirit , is very improper , and not without very much ado , so much as truth . 3. neither are beleevers anywhere said , to be made to drink , or to have drink given them , at the lords table , in order to their obtaining the same spirit , 4. learned expositors give notice of several different readings of this clause , found in manuscripts , and other copies . in a manuscript ( saith grotius upon the place ) this clause is thus read : {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , i. e. and we all are one body . oecumenius ( it seems ) did read it thus : {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , i. e. and we all drank , or were caused to drink , one potion , or one drinking , for , or unto , one spirit . some of the fathers read the clause in their language , et omnes unum spiritum potavimus , i. e. and we all have drank one spirit ; with which the syriac also accordeth . 5. the meaning of the clause ( if the reading we have be judged authentique ) construed with the former , seems to be this : we have by the same spirit , not only , or simply , been baptized into one and the same body , [ i. e. received such a proportion , or measure of the spirit given us , which is sufficient to make us one body , ] but we have also been made to drink unto one spirit , [ i. e. have received of this spirit of god so liberally , so plentifully , that we may very well become one spirit hereby amongst our selves , and walk together without either divisions in judgmēts , or distances in our affections . ] this construction of the preposition , {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , might be exemplified from the scriptures : and however , there is no hardness or unpleasantness in it . and this exposition of the clause , receives countenance from all those passages in both epistles , wherein the apostle signifies the more then ordinary pourings out of the spirit in variety of gifts and graces upon these corinthians . but , 10. ( and lastly ) suppose it should be granted , 1. that the apostle in this verse speaks of water-baptism , 2. that his meaning is , that by this baptism , they had been all baptized into one body ; yet , 1. it doth not follow , that this must needs be understood constitutively , but declaratively only ; and that all implyed hereby should be , that by their baptism they did declare , or signo tenus pretend , unto the world , that they were one body , not that they were constituted , or really and actually made one body , by their baptism . 2. both the said particulars admitted , yea and this also , that they were ( in a sence ) by water-baptism baptized [ constitutively ] into one body , yet will it not follow from all these put together , either , 1. but that they might have been , yea and now were , the same body , which they were , by another constitution , and constitutor ( one , or more ) besides that of water-baptism ; or , 2. that no other kind of water-baptism , but only that by dipping , would have been every whit as effectual , as that by diping , to constitute or make them one body . as to the former ; men may be truly said to be justified [ i. e. constituted or made righteous ] by faith ; and yet as truly be said also to be justified by christ , yea and by god himself , and this with the self same justification . yea children without faith are justified with the same justification by god and christ , wherewith men beleevers are justified through faith . in like manner a company of beleevers , may be said to be constituted a church by baptism , and yet be said to be constituted and made this very church by the spirit of christ , or by faith also ; yea though baptism be wanting , yet may these persons be a church of a like , as sound , as worthy a constitution by means of the other two , the spirit of christ , and faith . to the latter ; suppose baptizing by sprinkling , or pouring water on the face , or head , were only the ordinance of men , and not of christ ; yet by common agreement and consent about the signification and purport of this ordinance , a general submission unto it by men , might as well and as much , constitute them one and the same body , as baptizing by dipping would do . it is true , upon such a supposition as this , the unity of the body , so far as the ceremony of sprinkling hath to do in it , is not raised , or effected , according to the mind or precept of christ ; but yet those other constitutors of the same unity ( i mean , the spirit of god , and faith ) are not defeated in their operations or effects hereby . so that the body , or church , we speak of , is a true body or church of christ , although the external contributor towards the unity of it , be not such as it ought to be . but in this latter part of our answer , we put our selves to more trouble then we need , by arguing against such thing● , which neither can be proved , nor are ( indeed ) in themselves probable . however our brethren may please to take notice here from how ready and desirous we are to give them satisfaction in the largest measure they can desire it . 4. ( and lastly ) whereas an unlawfulness of communicating with churches or persons unbaptized ( as some call unbaptized ) is argued from hence ; that the gospel no where records , or approves of , any such communicating by saints baptized , in the apostles days ; we answer , 1. that it is not recorded that the spring , or water , wherein the eunuch was baptized , was so deep as to reach , or come up to his ankles , when he went ( as is supposed ) into it : yet our brethren build very high , and with confidence ( more then enough ) upon a far greater depth then so in it . nor is it recorded that any of the seven churches of asia , or the greater part of the members of any of them , were baptized : yet our brethren would think it unreasonable in us to deny it . but by what law should our brethren judg it unreasonable in us to deny , upon the account of a non-being recorded , what they suppose to be true ; when as they judg it very commendable in themselves to deny that only upon the same account of not being recorded , which we judg to be true ? but if we deny them the principle , or priviledg of unreasonableness , their fabrick falls to the ground . 2. where the scripture , not only allows , but enjoyneth , the beleeving yoke-fellow in marriage , cohabitation with the unbeleeving , there it doth ex super abundanti both approve and require church-cohabitation and communion of the baptized with the un-baptized ; at least where both parties are really sanctified by faith in christ jesus , and the baptized have most solemnly , and in the presence of god , and before many witnesses of his saints , engaged themselves by promise unto the other , to walk with them in all the ordinances of god and of christ , as they should be at any time revealed and made known unto them . i shall not ( i suppose ) need to traverse the comparison . the argument a minore ad majus , from the less probability to the greater , lieth large above ground . if infidelity , which is ten times worse then the want of an external ceremony , yet hath no power to absolve the beleeving wife for her matrimonial engagement to her husband ; much less hath a defect of , or in , an outward ceremony , in one or more members of a christian society , any commission or authority from god to discharge those , who call themselves baptized , from those sacred promises or engagements , wherein they have openly and avowingly affianced themselves to this society . 3. where the lord christ saith , what god hath joyned together , let no man put asunder , ( mat. 19. 6. ) he doth more then justifie that communion , which is the subject matter of our present debate . for if it was god , that joyned together the persons who now look upon themselves , as baptized , with those who are challenged for unbaptized , in that holy communion wherein they sometimes walked together , then it is a plain case , that no man ( indeed no creature ) whatsoever hath any authority or right of power , whatsoever his pretence may be , to dissolve the band of this communion between them , except it be given unto him by god . and then this gift or grant from god must be made to appear to men , before they ought to own or countenance any man in his act of parting , or putting asunder what god hath joyned together . and the truth is , that that man , or creature , that shall claim a right of power to abrogate or disanul any act of god , otherwise then from god himself , maketh himself not only equal , but superior in power , unto god . so that all the question is , whether god may lawfully and with truth be entituled to those transactions , by which the respective members of a society or fellowship of saints , do at any time imbody themselves , or become a church or spiritual corporation . for if it be either granted , or proved , that god is the author of these councels or motions in the hearts of his saints , as well undipt , as dipped , by which they incorporate or imbody themselves , it will roundly follow , that men have no power , but that which is usurped , and sinfully used , to dissolve , either in whole , or in part , these imbodied societies , or incorporations . for if god , upon this supposition , should authorize or license men to make any such dissolution , he should be divided against , and inconsistent with , himself ; giving men leave , what he builds up in one day , to pull down the next . for certain it is , that they who separate and rend themselves off from any society of saints after one , two , or three years walking with them , had the same right or power of separating themselves the very next day or hour after their first uniting , unless it be supposed that this society in the mean time hath enormously corrupted it self , or apostatized from that faith , which it professed when the said persons first joyned themselves unto it . now whether god be the author of those counsels and motions in the hearts of his saints , whether dipt , or undipt , by the ducture whereof they are led to imbody themselves ( as hath been said , ) can be no mans question , who doth but know and consider the most gracious and blessed tendencies , yea and real effects of such incorporations , when the persons incorporated do but in any considerable degree walk according to their light , and perform the terms of their engagements , dipping , or not dipping , making no difference in this kind . notwithstanding if a thing so clear and evident as this should be any mans doubt , demonstrations and proofs are near at hand ; but till they be called for , the reader ( haply ) for his ease , had rather hear of them , then have them . but , 4. ( and lastly ) to justifie the practise of persons dipped in separating and tearing off themselves from the societies of saints undipt , it is not ( so much as in colour or shew ) sufficient to plead , that they find no example in the scripture of any such communion ; but it is absolutely necessary hereunto , that they find and shew some example ( and this attested by the spirit of god ) of such a separation , as they practise . they find no example in scripture of any beleever dipped after they had been dedicated in their infancy unto the service of christ by sprinkling , or washing ; yet they judg themselves bound to the practise . why may they not as well judg themselves bound to remain in communion with societies undipt , although they find no example in scripture of a like practise ? if they practise in one case without example , why do they not the like in the other ? as for matter of precept , whereon to build either the one practise , or the other ; certainly there is as much ( or rather much more ) for holding communion with saints , though undipt , as for dipping , after sprinkling , or washing . and as sprinkling , or washing in infancy , is no where expresly or literâ tenùs made an exception against after dipping ; so neither is this dipping made any exception or bar against holding communion with saints or beleevers , though undipt . yea whereas that communion ▪ we speak of is an act or service of love and of mercy , and consequently one of the great things of the law , dipping being only a ceremony , and so answering the tything of mint , anise , and cummin , certainly if men think themselves bound in conscience not to leave the latter undone , they are much bound to observe and do the former . therefore they who dip after sprinkling , in this very practise condemn themselves for breaking communion after dipping . post-script , to the reader . good reader , upon occasion of the foregoing considerations , and the argument traversed in them , i judged it not amiss to subjoyn in the cloze of them one consideration more ▪ which though it doth not so particularly relate unto the argument of the former , yet may it through the blessing of god comfort , strengthen , and relieve thee against such impressions of sadness , wherewith , as well that troublesom and disorderly behavior of men there counter-argued , as many other parts of no better , if not of a much worse import , like to be shortly acted upon the stage of the world yet standing , are like to fill thy soul . the consideration i mean , is , that the great troubler of the world , the devil , knowing that he hath now but a very short time , is like to arm himself with greater wrath then ever , against the poor generation of the children of men , the objects of his deadly fury and most inveterate indignation . they who have yet their turns of mortality to take , either in whole , or in part , are like to learn and know more within the space of one year what a devil meaneth , then those who have lived before them have done in seven . satan hath but dallied with the world in mischief and blood hitherto ( in comparison . ) the scope of time before him wherein to act , was a kind of temptation upon him to remissness in his work . now finding and feeling himself close begirt , and pen'd up in straits of time for action , it cannot be expected but that he should dayly break out upon the world like thunder and lightening out of the blackest cloud . acerrima virtus est , quam ultima necessitas extundit . he never rent and tare the poor child ( luk. 9. ) so cruelly , as when he knew that the date of his possession was now expired . and however his game by , as well the present troubles , perplexities , and confusions of the world , as the eternal ruine and perdition of the precious souls of men , ( for his motto may be , tam marte , quàm mercurio , ) yet when he can pursue and follow both in one and the same chase , he is in the highest extasie of his delight . his great and deeply beloved design is to dissolve his works in the world , who he knoweth came into the world to dissolve his . and as he knoweth that christ's method for the destruction of his kingdom was by kindling a fire of division in the midst of it , by means whereof , where five should be in an house , three should be divided against two , and two against three , the father divided against the son , and the son against the father , the mother against the daughter , and the daughter against the mother a , &c. in like manner his method , by way of revenge , and , if it were possible , to destroy the kingdom of christ , is , by casting fire too , a fire of division , into that also , whereby the saints in their families likewise should be divided , the husband against the wife , and the wife against the husband ; the father against his sons , and the sons against their father ; the master against his servants , and the servants against their master , &c. and though it be true , that the devil hath in former ages cast sundry fires of separation and division into that great body or bulk of the professors of christ in the world ( commonly called , the catholique church ) causing hereby great troubles and confusions in this church , and possibly might separate and divide some true saints and servants of god , from others , partakers of like precious faith with them , yet did he never ( at least since the apostles days ) attempt the kingdom of christ so compact in it self , and so well fortified for its own defence and preservation , as of late it was amongst us in the congregational churches of the nation , by any fire of division whatsoever like unto that , which is best known in the world by the name of , anabaptism . by other fires , for the most part he either separated the vile from the precious , or the vse amongst themselves , and from the vile ; in both which cases the spiritual kingdom of christ was rather a gainer , then a loser . but by this fire of anabaptism ( at least as the greatest part of the engineers , who work with it , do employ it ) he separates only the precious from the precious , saints from saints , beleevers from beleevers ; and makes the one to become as publicans and heathens unto the other . by means whereof many spiritual temples and habitations of the living god , fair and large , and wherein his soul delighted to dwell , are in imminent danger of being made waste and desolate . alass ! the fires of swenkfieldianism , famdism , antinomianism , lutheranism , calvinism , super-ordinancism , with the sparks of quaking and ranting , were , and are , but as ignes lambentes , fires running up and down and licking only the outside of the house , without kindling upon , or burning any the principals , or main timber ; whereas the fire of anabaptism , is like the fire kindled by god himself heretofore in zion ; the fierceness whereof was so sore , that ( as ieremiah lamenteth the case ) it devoured the foundations thereof , lam. 4. 11. and if we diligently consider the nature of that design , the accomplishing whereof sathan projecteth by this fire , we cannot reasonably conceive but that it should be very subtil and penetrating ( in its kind ) i mean very apt and proper to insinuate and convey it self into the judgments and consciences of good men , either less knowing , or less considerate ; and yet withall so propertied also , that persons who are diligent in the use of the touchstone , and of through judgments , may not feel the least warmth or heat of truth in it . that fire which is to separate between silver and silver , between gold and gold , had need have somewhat more then ordinary fire , in it . and when sathans device and work is to sever and divide saints from saints , true beleevers from true beleevers , imbodied as close and fast together as the scales of leviathan , the fire whereof he must make use in the operation , must be some notion , opinion , or apprehension , one or more , so calculated and conditioned , that in face it may look like a truth of god , and yet in heart be far otherwise . for by means of such a composition or constitution as this , it is apt to take good people of lighter and weaker judgments , and less considerate , and to leave those of stronger , and more inquiring : and thus the operation is finished , and the separation wrought . for there is scarce any church or congregation of beleevers , but is compounded of these two sorts of persons ; some who are more credulous , and more easie to be taken with appearances ; others , who are more jealous of faces , and who must see , a sound bottom , before they approve , or commend tops . now the doctrine or opinion ( with the concurrent practise ) imbraced by those , who are best known from others by the name of anabaptists ( i intend no reflection in the term , nor any avouchment of the propriety of it , in reference to those meant by it , but meerly designation ) is of that calculation we speak of : it hath a face or shew , both of truth , and godliness ; but it hath an heart of error , and prophaneness . by means of the former it captivateth one sort of men : by means of the latter , it alienateth the judgments and affections of others from it . i know not ( good reader ) whether thou hast taken any notice either of the fourty queries about church-communion and baptism ( some while since published ) or of the answer ( so called ) to them , published more lately . i judg it not worth , either mine , or any other mans pains , to make an anti-answer , or just reply . heaving at a feather is too childish a posture for a man . something may be said in commendation of a fair face , although the heart relating to it be never so foul and bad . my antiquerist is a man of parts and worth , in his sphere : but what the word of god , and evidence of truth make crooked , what parts or abilities of man are able to make streight ? i shall , upon occasion of the subject discoursed in the precedure of these papers , here only say this ( giving in withal a small first-fruits of an account for such my belief ) that i verily beleeve that there is nothing answered to any one of the said fourty queries , but what is defective , either in point of pertinency , or of truth , or at least of proof . the grounds of my faith in this kind , are partly the nature and import of the questions ; partly the tenor and substance of such of the answers , which i have had time to weigh and consider . for the former ; if i should propose such a question , the tenor whereof should import , that i verily beleeve the sun to be up at noon day , or , that the body ought not to be sacrificed upon the service of the shadow , or the rayment belonging to it , or the like ; could i expect , or think , that he who should undertake in answer to such my questions , to overthrow my belief imported in either , could alledg or insist upon any thing , but which of necessity must be , either impertinent , or untrue ( if not both ) or if neither , yet uncertain ; which in close disputations , especially if the degree of uncertainty be any thing considerable , amounts to little more , then to that which is untrue . for the latter ; because i would not be thought to seek out my antigonist , where possibly he may be more obnoxious , or weak , i shall give a brief account of his weakness in the best of his strength ; for i presume that if he be stronger then himself anywhere , it is in the front of his battail , and in his formost answers . therefore let us ( in a word ) see whether the foundations both of his first and second answers , be not less either in pertinency ( as hath been said ) or in truth ( if not in both , ) or least in proof . 1. in his answer to the first query , he layeth for one ground hereof , that which is the matter of question between him , and his querist , viz. that constituting of churches without baptism is a corrupt practise ; 2. that infant-sprinkling is a corrupt practise also . now what an impertinency is it in arguing , to assert that without proof , which is denyed by the adverse party ( and that in the question it self under debate , ) and withall to build the process of the dispute upon it ? 2. he layeth this for another ground of his answer ; that there was no such practise , as either constituting of churches without baptism , or sprinkling of infants , on foot in the world , till after all the books of the holy scriptures were finished . this likewise he affirms without all proof , notwithstanding he well knows that the sence of his querist stands to the contrary . this is of the same house and lineage of impertinency with the former . 3. he builds another strein of his answer upon this ground ; that the querist hath disclaimed communion with the church of rome , and the parochial churches in england ; and this upon this ground , because there is no example in scripture for such church-constitution , as that of rome and england is . here are more untruths then one , un ess a very improper construction of the phrase , disclaim communion , contracts the number . for i never disclaimed communion with the church of rome , more then i have done with the church of mahomet : nor had i ever occasion to do the one , more then the other . but the grand untruth here is , that i should have disclaimed communion with these churches , because there is no example in scripture of such church-constitutions &c. my anti querist is very much mistaken in this : for i disclaim no action whatsoever upon this account , because there is no example of this action in the scripture ; as neither do i perform any action , simply because there is an example of such an action here . but the adequate ground of my disclaiming any action ( and so of communion with any church whatsoever ) is , that i find no sufficient ground in the scriptures for my doing it . but i may ( and do ) find sufficient grounds in the scripture for my doing of many things , of which i find here no examples . however , upon this mistaken ground of my disclaiming communion with these two churches , he goeth on his way merrily , and builds as securely , as he that mistakes the sand for a rock . 4. he advanceth supposing yet further , that i hold communion with churches built upon infant-baptism . surely here is a pair of mistakes : one , about his own ; another , about my practise . for , 1. himself disclaims communion with those societies of saints , which here he calls , churches , meerly upon this account , because they are no churches . 2. whereas he chargeth me with holding cammunion with churches built upon infant-baptism , the truth is , that i hold no communion with such churches ; nor do i know any church , one or other , built upon any baptism , whether infant-baptism , or beleever-baptism . the churches with which i hold communion , are bvilt upon the foundations of the apostles and prophets , jesus christ himself being the chief corner stone , ephes. 2. 20. 5. neither is it at all pertinent to the business before him , to inform his querist , or others , that there is example in abundance in scripture of churches of a better constitution , [ he means , then of churches built upon infant-baptism , such as he supposeth i hold communion with , ] and that this is , of saints baptized after they had beleeved . we do not beleeve that baptism , whensoever , or howsoever administred , is any part of , or ingredient into , a churches constitution , more then the gospel it self , or the preaching hereof , or the service of the lords table . a church may be of a very ill constitution , though all the members of it have been regularly baptized ; and on the contrary of a good and sound constitution , though there have been some defect or irregularity in their baptism . baptism is extrinsecal to church-constitution , as the washing of a mans face or hands is to the constitution or complexion of his natural body . 6. another mistaken ground , upon which he builds very high , is , that the querist , and others of his judgment , plead the precept os circumcising infants under the law , as virtually requiring the baptizing of infants under the gospel . i confess if we should plead thus , we should plead much after the rate of those , who plead the unlawfulness of church communion with the saints , because they jump not in conceit with them in every circumstance about baptizing . we are far from either saying or thinking , that the precept of circumcising infants under the law , virtually requires the baptizing of them under the gospel . we hold , that had there not been a precept given , in , or under the gospel for baptizing , the precept of circumcising infants under the law , could not have justified us in our baptizing them under the gospel . we do not go about to prove the lawfulness ( much less the necessity ) of baptizing , from the precept of circumcising : this is a grand mistake in the antiquerist about the sence of his adversaries : but we receiving a precept , from god under the gospel for baptizing , without any determination of , or limitation unto , any certain age of the persons , to be by vertue of this precept baptized , and finding the councel of god to have pitched upon infancy , as the most meet age for the reception of a former ordinance of like spiritual signification and import with baptism , judg our selves bound in conscience rather to be directed to the proper subject of baptism by the councel of god in a case of like nature , then to consult the wisdoms ( or wills rather ) of men in the business . this considered , 7. how , not impertinent only , but importune and unsavery , is that insultation , if it be not good reasoning from circumcision to baptism , let the pedobaptists bid adieu to their cause of infant baptism , which is built and bottomed thereupon . alas , good man ! the cause of pedo-baptism is not at all built or bottomed upon any reasoning from circumcision to baptism , but upon the good word of god it self . neither have we any reason , or need , to bid adieu to this cause , although ( to please our friend the antiquerist ) we should take our leaves of our reasoning from the subject of circumcision to the more appropriate subject of baptism . yea this our good freind himself being so well acquainted with us , cannot be ignorant , but that we have many other pillars hewn out of the rock of the scriptures , whereon we build our cause of pedo-baptism , besides what we argue from the subject of circumcision . yea himself hath of late been hewing and hacking at some of them ( whereof notice may be taken in due time ) but his attempts against them have rather proved them to be strong , then any ways weak . 8. how impertinently weak is that insulting demand also ( in the process of this answer ) and now which of the horns of this dolemma will the pedobaptists suffer themselves to be gored by ? here the anti-querist ( it seems ) turns querist himself . but if he hath not an happier stroke in anti-querism , then in querism , he had better harken unto the proverb , manum de tabulâ , and leave his paper as white as he found it . the pedobaptists need not fear goaring by either of the horns of his dilemma : they stand so staringly wide , that there is roomth enough and enough for seaven men to pass abrest between them . for first , the mans dilemma taketh it for granted , that uncircumcised persons were excluded [ surely he means , always , not sometimes , or in some cases only ; for this would sink the saying too far beneath his cause ) from acts of church communion , whilst circumcision was in force . will he say that women were circumcised ? or that they were excluded form acts of church-communion , because they were uncircumcised ? or that all those , who were not circumcised in the wilderness , were excluded from all acts of church communion for forty years together ? 2. the said dilemma very weakly supposeth , that the author of it , may from the exclusion of uncircumcised ones under the law from acts of church-communion then , as well argue to the exclusion of unbaptized , or unduly baptized ones under the gospel , from church-communion now , as we reason from the subject of circumcision , to the subject of baptism . i wonder upon what principle or ground in reason such a supposition or conceit as this standeth . for what the antiquerist offereth upon this account , is no better then gibbrich or non-sence unto me . for ( sayth he ) the same things have the same consequences ; and two things alike , belong to the like reason and judgment . he that either can understand these topiques , or fit them to his case , must plough with a stronger and nimbler heyfer , then mine . that which i suppose the man would have , is this ( but his demand is most unreasonable and importune ) that if baptism succeeds circumcision in one thing , it must succeed it in another ; yea in all things . how empty such a conceit as this is both of reason , and of truth , hath been shewed in the last of our foregoing considerations . and however some of us upon occasion sometimes say , that baptism succeeds circumcision ( which is a truth evident enough , and acknowledged such , in some respects , by one of the great apostles of the anti-querists faith in the matter of baptism , ) yet have we no need of such a saying to support our cause of infant baptism . for the analogy or proportion of reason , from whence we argue , that infants may be as well the subjects of baptism , as of circumcision , may equally stand , whether baptism be looked upon as successor unto circumcision , or no . but if our good freinds intellectuals be not too far spent with the strength of the inchantment upon him , but that he yet remains in some competent capacity to receive instruction , i shall here ( once for all ) give him an account , why , though it were to be granted ( which yet it is not , but only with limitation , as was lately shewed ) that want of circumcision did exclude from church-ship under the law , yet this at no hand proveth , that therefore a defect of , or in , baptism , should do the like under the gospel . 1. the church of god being in the infancy or nonage of it under the law , the state and condition of it was more servile , then now under the gospel . now i say that the heir as long as he is a child , differeth nothing from a servant , though he be lord of all ; but is under tutors and governors , until the time appointed of the father . even so we when we were children , were in bondage under the elements of the world . but whtn the fulness of time was come , god sent forth his son made of a woman , made under the law , to redeem them that were under the law , that we might receive the adoption of sons * . in respect of this different state of the church under the law , and under the gospel , the churh is not to be looked upon as under a like rigour of subjection to any carnal ordinance or ceremony whatsoever , as it was under the law . nor are the external ceremonies of the gospel pressed upon like terms of peremptoriness and severity , upon the saints , as those of the law were imposed upon the carnal church of the jews . if they were , the two so different states of the church mentioned , should be confounded . but somewhat to this purpose we speak in our considerations ; where we declared , that in the gospel , no man is threatened for not being baptized , baptism being here enjoyned or recommended unto men by way of indulgence , and for their spiritual benefit and accommodation , not with any intention on gods part to render the bare omission of it an article of condemnation against any man , much after the manner of the law of the free-wil offering under the law . and whereas it was said unto abraham concerning circumcision , he that is born in thy house , and he that is bought with thy mony must needs be circumcised , it is no where said unto any person in the new testament , ye must needs be baptized ; yea unto the eunuch requiring baptism , philip answered , if thou beleevest with thy whole heart , thou mayst , not , thou must [ be baptized . ] there is an eye of this evangelical liberty concerning external observations in the institution it self of the other ordinance also , as the apostle paul recordeth it , 1 cor. 11. 25. 26. this do ye as oft as ye do it , in remembrance of me . for as often as ye eat this bread , and drink this cup , ye do shew the lords death till he come . here is no injunction of the quoties , but a plain intimation of a liberty touching this ; only the manner of the toties is strictly prescribed : which is the direct calculation , or manner of sanction of the institution concerning the free-wil offering under the law . this kind of offering was imposed upon no man , as of necessity : only the terms of the oblation of it , when offered , are strictly prescribed . see levit. 1. 2 , 3 , &c. and again , levit. 22. 18. 19. 20 , &c. but , 2. concerning circumcision , there never was any question among the jews , nor indeed any place or occasion for a question , either whether it was commanded by god , or no , or whether the practise of it was to continue till the coming of the messiah , or no ; no nor yet concerning the due mode or manner of its administration . so that whosoever refused to submit to circumcision , during the reign of it , did ipso facto and without dispute , openly manifest , yea profess disobedience to god in an express command . whereas the anti-querist well knoweth , that amongst the saints and servants of god themselves , and persons as tender conscienced , of as rich an obediential frame of heart towards god , as himself , or the best of his late-born perswasion , there are many scruples , questions , and cases of conscience about baptism ; some being unsatisfied whether there be any command of god , or of christ , in the gospel , requiring subjection of any person in these days , unto such a thing ; others , ohether the mind and pleasure of god be , that the ordinary and standing administration of it should be made to infants , or persons of mature years ; others again , whether the administration of it may not with as good , or better acceptance with god , be made by sprinkling , or pouring water on the baptized , as by dowzing or dipping ( besides several others of like nature . ) and such questions and dissatisfactions amongst holy , humble , grave and sober christians , as these , undeniably shew and prove , that the mind and will of god t●uching these particulars , is very sparingly , obscurely , and with much scantness of discovery , delivered in the scriptures . the premises considered , the case must needs become plain , why , though it should be granted that circumcision was made by god a necessary condition of church-ship under the law , yet this no ways proveth , that he hath made baptism , especially in any particular mode of its administration , a like condition of church-membership under the gospel . if god should have intended baptism ( as some men count baptism ) for a necessary requisite , or ingredient into churchship under the gospel , he should have made a law for the inchurching of his saints , which would have excluded the far greatest ( yea and best ) part of them from all part and fellowship in that gracious accommodation ; and which would have brought in an heterogeneal generation of vain and loose persons , in their stead ; as now the groundless conceit of such a law doth amongst us . nor can any man tolerably imagin , had the precept of god concerning circumcision under the law , been like to have occasioned as many doubtful disputations amongst the best of the jewish nation , as he knew the signification of his mind concerning baptism in the gospel , would occasion and raise amongst the best of his saints , that he would ever have regulated church-fellowship amongst them by circumcision . yea , 3. ( and lastly ) the regulation of church-communion under the levitical law by circumcision ( upon the terms , and with the limitations formerly specified ) is so far from being so much as a probable argument , that church-communion should be intended by god to be regulated by baptism under the gospel , that it rather evinceth the quite contrary . for as the communion of the church under the law , whilst it [ the church ] was yet carnal , and servile , in the infancy or nonage of it , was regulated by a rule or law suitable to the state and condition of it , i. e. by a law of a carnal ordinance ; so is it reasonable to conceive , that the church under the gospel being spiritual ( 1 pet. 2. 5. ) and of mature growth , the communion thereof should be regulated by a law or rule agreeable to the condition and state hereof , and which requireth , and consiseth in , somewhat that is more spiritual , and not by baptism , which is a carnal ceremony ( so acknowledged by the greatest masters themselves of the way called anabaptism ) as well as circumcision . thus they who have eyes to see , and hearts to understand , may clearly enough perceive , that however the subject of baptism under the gospel may be rationally calculated by the subject of circumcision under the law ; yet the regulation of church-communion by circumcision under the law , can be no ground of estimating church fellowship by baptism under the gospel . we have assigned reason upon reason of the difference . and thus having felt and handled the two insulting horns of the late-threatening dilemma ; we find them to be made of brown paper . but ( to proceed yet a little further with the answerer in his answer to the first query ) 9. another ground whereon he builds , is , that the scripture is every whit as express ; for baptism , to precede the enjoyment of church priviledges , as it is for a voluntary consenting to church order and government , to precede the same enjoyment . but how impertinently to his cause , and with how little proof , is this affirmed ? first , if by , church-priviledges , he means , all church-priviledges , how can the scripture be express for baptism to precede the enjoyment of them , when as it self is one of these priviledges ; and ( doubtless according to his sence ) one of the greatest of them ? is the scripture express for any thing to precede the enjoyment of it self ? if by , church-priviledges , he means , some of these priviledges , when he hath specified which he means , we shall consider further of his assertion . but , 2. the scripture may be express enough for baptism to precede the enjoyment he speaks of , [ i. e. that baptism did sometimes precede this enjoyment , and may precede it still , yea and haply that in some cases it ought to precede it , ] and yet be neither express , nor virtual or implicit , for the absolute or universal necessity of such a precedure , which is the point wherewith the query before him pincheth him . 3. ( and lastly ) the scripture may be as express for what he saith it is , as for a voluntary consenting to church order , &c. and yet be neither express , nor yet virtual or consequential , for it . for the truth is , that the scripture is not express for the said consenting : only some of us judg it meet to desire such a consent of those , whom we judg otherwise meet to admit into communion with us in church-priviledges , to prevent some grand inconveniences , which it is not pertinent here to specifie ; although the sence of others of us is otherwise in the case . and , 10. how impertinent to his cause is this reasoning : if one person may be admitted upon such terms , [ he means , to church-priviledges without baptism , ] then why not two ? if two , why not ten , and so an hundred , or a thousand ? and consequently such gospel order layd totally aside ? if an hundred , or a thousand , or ten thousands , should be admitted to church-priviledges upon a manifestation of their faith ( which may be otherways , and to far better satisfaction , done , then by a being baptized ) with an exclusion of all others , who are able to give no such account of a work of faith in them , would this be a total laying aside of gospel order ? good reader , consider and judg . 11. he affirms , that those precepts , exhortations , or doctrines by which men stand enjoyned to observe gospel order , do virtually prohibit men baptized communion with unbaptized in church-fellowship , as that which is contrary thereunto . but at what a distance do his proofs stand from his position , as if they were meer strangers to it . for , 1. his first proof is built upon a clear mistake of the word , teach , go and teach all nations , mat. 28. 19. ( and indeed upon a misunderstanding of the whole verse . ) for {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , to teach , doth not signifie to teach men so , as to make them willing to obey the gospel , [ which sence notwithstanding bears the whole burthen of his first proof of the said position : ] this sence of the word was ( i beleeve ) never heard of from any author that hath written in the greek tongue ; and however , cannot be the sence of it here ( as will appear presently : ) but the word {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , properly signifies to instruct or teach ; or ( which is the same ) to do that , which is apt and proper to make a disciple , one or more , whether any person be actually , or by way of event or success , made a disciple , or no . and that this was the proper and only sence of the word intended by the lord christ here , is evident ; because otherwise , 1. he must be conceived to give a commission or charge to men to do that , which was not in their power to do , as viz. actually to regenerate , or convert men to the faith , &c. 2. it would follow , that although the apostles should have taught and preached the gospel with never so much faithfulness , yet they had falsified the trust reposed in them by christ , and acted short of their commission , if they did not at all times when they preached , make those , to whom they preached , actual beleevers . this considered , how impertinent and insulse is that conceit , that an injunction to baptize is therefore put by a participle of the present tense , teach all nations , baptizing them &c. to imply , that they were presently to baptize men upon their being taught . if this were so , all persons whatsoever , to whom the gospel was at any time preached by the apostles , were , upon their bare hearing of it , and whether they beleeved , or blasphemed , to have been baptized by them . and if there be any sence at all in these words , as all examples of that nature in the acts of the apostles do declare , how loud an untruth is it . there is not so much as any one example throughout the acts of the apostles , of a person baptized barely or meerly upon his hearing of the gospel preached unto him . but how impertinently this piece of scripture is alledged , either to prove who , or what kind of person , is the proper and adequate subject of baptism ; or a necessitie that all beleevers to the worlds end , should be baptized , or otherwise be guilty of sin , hath been argued in the preceding considerations . 2. how little truth , or pertinency there is in his second proof of the aforesaid position , sufficiently appears by the examination of the first . for though the apostles did put the said commission of christ into execution according to his command , i. e. did both teach and baptize , yet it doth not follow from hence , either , 1. that they baptized all that they taught , ( the contrary hereunto is evident from the story , act. 2. 41 , 43. and 5. 33. and other places ) therefore the teaching mentioned in their commission , was not the rule of their baptizing . nor , 2. doth it follow , that because upon their first preaching of the gospel in jerusalem , they baptized those who gladly received their word , and beleeved , therefore they baptized in like manner all those , or any of those , who were converted to the faith by their after-preaching in the same place . we read of no such thing as this in any place of the acts , or elsewhere ( as we formerly observed . ) nor did the tenor of their commission impose this upon them . for he that is simply and only commanded to teach , and to baptize , as he is not hereby commanded to teach continually , so neither is he commanded to baptize always when he teacheth . but whereas he demandeth ; what is more plain then that the commission of christ to them , was to teach and baptize first , and to admit into church-fellowship thereupon , as is visible in that prime example of theirs , acts 2. 41 , 42. i answer , this is much more plain , viz. that they were not commissioned in that commission we speak of , to admit into church-fellowship , either upon terms of baptism , or any other , there being not so much as the least mention or hint here about admission into church-fellowship . nor is it said , acts 2. 41 , 42. either that the apostles admitted any into church-fellowship ; or 3. that any were admitted into church-fellowship , much less that they were admitted into this fellowship , because they had been baptized ; but all that is here said ( as to the point now in hand ) is : then they that gladly received his word , were baptized , and the same day {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , i. e. there were added , or added to [ not , to them , as our antagonist emphaseth , or , to the church , but rather , to the lord , as it is , acts 15. 24 ] about three thousand souls . neither is the addition here spoken of , ascribed to the apostles : it is not said , that they , or any of them , added so much as one soul . but if we will entitle him unto the addition here spoken of , to whom the holy ghost ascribeth it , vers. 47. we must say , that it was made by the lord ; and the lord added unto the church dayly such as should be saved . here , where there is express mention made of adding to the church , there is no mention made of baptism . 3. his third and last proof is as irrelative to his purpose , as both the former . for christians are not said ( rom. 65. ) to be planted together in [ it is not , into , as our anti-querist takes a most unworthy liberty , both here , and elsewhere more then once or twice , to mis-cite his scriptures ] the likeness of christs death , by reason , or means , of their water-baptism ; for then it would follow ( from the latter clause of the verse , {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} ) that all who are thus baptized , should be everlastingly partakers of his resurrection ; but we are said to be {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , complanted with christ , in , through , or by means of , a likeness of his death , when we are truly and really mortified , and become dead unto sin , and to the world : which is a kind of death holding some analogy with , and carrying in it some resemblance of , that death which christ suffered upon the cross . and the apostle informs us , that by such a death as this , we become planted together with christ , i. e. interested with him in that most stable , fixed , and unchangeable councel and purpose of god , wherein he hath decreed the immortal glory and blessedness of all those that shall obey him . this sence of the place considered , how frivolous and impertinent is this supercilious interrogatory , which he builds upon it ? and may you not therefore as well suppose trees to grow together , before they are planted together , as to suppose christians to grow together before they are planted together ? yes surely , as well the latter , as the former : but the mischief of the impertinency is ; that christians may be planted together in christ by a work of mortification , and so grow together , whether they be baptized , or no : and they may be baptized together , and so be planted together as far as water can plant them , and yet not grow together ; but some wither and dye , whilest others grow and prosper . or however , such a plantation which is by baptism only , is no way , or means , of growth unto any man . and yet of the two , it is a broader impertinency , to make this demand , in stead of a proof that a church cannot stand but upon baptism , and what house stands without its principles , or is built without a foundation , only upon occasion of this admonition of the apostle to the hebrews ; leaving the word of the beginning of christ , let us advance towards perfection ; and his making , not the practise , but the doctrine , not of any one baptism determinately , but of baptisms ( plurally ) a part of the foundation ; i. e. of the body or systeme of that doctrine , which young beginners in the school of christ were wont to learn in the first place , as in building a foundation is first to be layd in order to a superstruction . but what is there in this passage , to prove that one baptism , or one kind of baptism , is the foundation of a church , more then another ? or that any kind of baptism , more then imposition of hands ? or that either imposition of hands , or baptism in one kind or other , more then repentance from dead works , or faith towards god ; especially considering that these two are named in the first place , as the principal parts of the foundation he speaks of , and first to be layd ? yea supposing that the hebrews , to whom he writes , were a constituted church , and that he had taught them the doctrine of baptisms under this constitution , it evidently follows , either that they were a church before they were baptized , or that they had been baptized before they had been instructed in the doctrine of baptism . i beleeve it is much harder for the anti-querist to escape goaring ( as he calls it ) by one or other of the horns of this dilemma , then we found it to make an escape from both the horns of that dilemma , which was prepared by him to do the mischief . 12. concerning the text , 1 cor. 12. 13. where the apostle saith , not as our anti-querist citeth the words shorter by the head , that they were all baptized into one body ; but , by one spirit they were all baptized , &c. this scripture ( i say ) we argued somewhat at large in the last of our considerations ; and found war in the heart of it against church-constitution by water-baptism . and running is no posture for repetitions . only whereas my friend the anti-querist challengeth me that some while since i interpreted this scripture comportingly with his notion ; the truth is , that i do not find such a line in any fragment of the history of my life extant at present in my memory ; yet because i dayly find so little stedfastness in my memory , as i do , i had rather in the business trust my friend and his memory , then mine own . but this i well remember , that long since i learned this christian principle from an heathen philosopher , {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , a man must be content to sacrifice even his own sayings , and opinions , upon the service of the truth . this kind of sacrifice i have oft offered : and if my antagonist , and some others , could be perswaded to consecrate themselves priests of this order , with me , the water of baptism would be no longer a fire to divide between friends and friends . but they rather chuse to be priests of that order , whose hierourgy or priestly function mainly stands in sacrificing the body upon the service of the rayment , or the substance , upon the service of the shadow . 13. whereas he demands , ought not that , which was a reason to them [ he means , the apostles in the primitive times ] not to admit church-members into church fellowship [ we pardon the impropriety ] without baptism , to be a reason unto us likewise to steere the same cou●se , &c. doth he not very impertinently and groundlesly suppose , that they had a reason not to admit the admission he speaks of ? he hath not hitherto so much as intimated unto us any reason at all of such a non-admission in the apostles , as that now mentioned . if that should be granted him , which he will never be able to prove , viz. that the apostles did not admit into church-fellowship without baptism , yet it will not follow from hence , that therefore they had a reason to admit none without it ; especially if the case were so , as the anti querist seems to suppose it , viz. that no unbaptized person ever desired such admission of them . and suppose ( for argument sake ) that they had de facto admited into church-communion only unbaptized persons , it would not follow from hence , that therefore they had reason to exclude all others , as all that were baptized , in case they had desired it . if all who desired church-fellowship , and consequently all who were admitted unto it , were baptized ; is this any argument or proof , that therefore in case others had desired it , they must needs have been rejected ? if a man should go a fishing upon the seas , and should catch only of one sort of fish , as suppose whiteings , would it follow that therefore he had reason to catch no other ? 14. how importune and impertinent are these words also ! if so , then farewel all gospel obligations . for if we may take liberty to cast away one law of gospel order , and worship , then why not two , and so three , and in the end , all ? &c. for doth he not here suppose , that separating from churches , or persons , unbaptized ( though esteemed in the world , and by all but himself , and his , baptized ) is or was , a law of gospel order , binding christians of the first age ? surely this law is written on the back-side of some of pauls epistles , where no man did ever read it . and they that take liberty to cast away this law , are more like to bid all gospel obligations , welcome , then to bid them farewel . secondly he supposeth that those rules , by which the apostles ordered themselves in their times , were binding to christians of that age ; which is broadly importune and truthless . for the truth is , that no rule whatsoever , by which the apostles ordered themselves , as apostles ( and certainly they ordered themselves by many such rules as these ) was binding unto any other christian of that age , but unto themselves only . thirdly ( and lastly ) he supposeth it a grand absurdity , and tending to a dissolution of all gospel order , to imagin , that there were any gospel rules binding only to christians of the first age of the gospel . doth he think , that when christians of the age he speaks of , sold their possessions , lands , and houses , and brought the prices of them , and laid them down at the apostles feet , they did this irregularly , or without rule ? or without a rule binding unto them ? if this latter , then it follows , that either christ himself , or his apostles , prescribed some rules , which were not binding , no not unto christians of this first age ? or doth he think that that rule , by which those christians acted in the case specified , is binding unto us now ? yet that rule respected charity , and self-denial ; and so in reason should be more binding unto us now , then rules respecting only an outward rite or ceremony . again it was a rule binding unto those christians he speaks of , that their women praying or prophesying , should have their head covered , and that men on the contrary should have their heads uncovered . doth he judge this rule binding unto us now ? or do all men sin who prophesy [ i. e. joyn with him that preahcheth the word , in the act of hearing ] with their heads covered ? i beleeve there are many who should sin much more , if they should prophecy with their heads uncovered ; viz. all those who by reason of weakness or tenderness are like to suffer in their healths , if they should sit uncovered for an hour or two together , in a cold place and cold season . there is the same confideration of a frosty-dipping to persons that are valetudinary , of a crazy and infirm constitution , though it were supposed that there was a rule binding christians of that age , and of those warm countries , to dip at all times immediately upon their beleeving . instance might be given in several other gospel rules , which were binding unto christians of the first age , at least unto those particular christians to whom they were prescribed , and yet are not so unto us now . the rule which prescribed the holy kiss , which prescribed the speaking in an unknown tongue by two , or at the most by three , ( 1 cor. 14. 27. ) which prescribed the holding of the peace to him that was speaking in the church , in case any thing were revealed unto another , ( 1 cor. 14. 30. ) which prescribed abstaining from meat offered to idols , and from blood , &c. were binding unto those christians of the first age , to whom they were given ; but are they all binding unto us now ? or in case they were all now binding , but one or more of them not so apprehended by christians now , and upon this account not observed by them ; doth it follow from hence , that they must needs bid farewell to all gospel obligations ? if my anti-querist not seeing , or minding a friend of his passing by him in the street , should omit the salutations accustomed between friends , doth this tend to the abolishing or casting away all friendly commerce or expressions between them otherwise ? or in case a man gathering his apples , overlooks one that is more covered with leaves or boughs , then the rest , and so leaveth it ungathered , doth he hereby either dispose , tempt , or encourage , either himself , or others , never to gather apple more ? what frivolous and empty reasonings are these ? let me here observe this one thing more . the apostles were not so uniform in imposing ordinances upon churches in their days , but that what upon occasion they imposed upon one , sometimes they relaxed unto another . they imposed abstinence from meats offered to idols , and so from blood , upon the church at antioch , simply and indefinitely , act. 15. 29. whereas the apostle paul enjoyneth the former abstinence unto the church of corinth only in the case of scandal unto weak brethren , and of encouragement to idolaters , 1 cor. 8 7 , 9 , 10. compared with chap. 10. 23 , 27 , 28 , &c. and concerning the latter , he seemeth to relax it unto the generality of christians ( those haply excepted , to whom it had been enjoyned , together with others lying under the like circumstantial obligations thereunto ) in that passage to timothy , 1 tim. 4. 1 , 2 , 3 , 4. where he saith , that every creature of god is good , and nothing to be refused , if it be received with thanksgiving ; yea and ( which is more considerable ) maketh it a character of men giving heed to seducing spirits , and speaking lyes in hypocrisie , to command to abstain from meats , which god created to be received with thanksgiving , &c. 15. whereas he saith , that it is said in effect in 1 cor. 12. 13 , and the like scriptures lately quoted by him , that all of all sorts , ranks , and degrees , that were of the body , were baptized into the body , &c. it is indeed said ( as we heard ) that they were all by one spirit baptized into one body . but how impertinent , yea and voyd of truth is it to ascribe that unto water-baptism , which is so expresly attributed by the apostle to a baptizing in , or with , the spirit ? but this scripture hath been argued more at large . 16. ( and lastly , for this answer ) he saith , that the same ground which did satisfie beleevers then [ in the apostles days ] in not joyning in church fellowship with persons unbaptized , though they did beleeve — will serve to satisfie baptized beleevers now touching the lawfulness of the same practise , which is the will and appointment of jesus christ that so it should be , &c. but to how little purpose is this said ? for , 1. he hath not yet proved ( nor i beleeve ever will ) that baptized beleevers in the apostles days did not joyn in church-fellowship with persons un-baptized , though beleevers . and how impertinent is it in arguing , to suppose that without proof , which a man knoweth is denyed by his adversary ? 2. in case he had proved , or could prove , such a thing , ( i mean , that baptized beleevers did not joyn in church-fellowship with unbaptized beleevers , ) yet would it not follow from hence , that therefore they did not thus joyn with such upon any such ground as this , viz. because it was the will and appointment of iesus christ that so it should be . christians in these times ( as in all other ) did , and especially did not , many things , upon other grounds , then this , as viz because they have no occasion , opportunity , or necessity to do them . they did not joyn themselves in a team with horses , or after the manner of horses , to draw carts , or wains ; they did not , at least many of them did not , joyn with merchants where they lived , in their adventures by sea . did they omit the doing of these things ( and twenty more like unto them ) upon this ground , or motive , because it was the will and appointment of iesus christ that so it should be ? how uncouth , sapless , and without savor , are such conceits and reasonments as these ? the baptized beleevers he speaks of might possibly not joyn in church-fellowship with unbaptized beleevers , only upon this ground ; viz. because no such desired this fellowship with them . but will this ground serve to satisfie baptized beleevers now touching the lawfulness of such a practise , when as there are beleevers , whom they call unbaptized , who desire this fellowship with them ? but it is no great marvel that the carver , though a good artist , can make no better a mercury ; the wood he hath to work upon , is not for it . 3. ( and lastly ) the nonjoyning of baptized beleevers in church-fellowship with beleevers unbaptized , could it be proved , would serve to satisfie baptized beleevers now touching the lawfulness of the same practise . but not to joyn , and to break off or separate after joyning , are two very different practises . that ground which would satisfie a beleeving man or woman for their not joyning in marriagewith an infidel or unbeleever ; will not serve to satisfie them touching the lawfulness of the practise of separation from him , or her , after marriage . therefore my anti-querist doth not argue pertinently at this turn neither . he pleads another cause in stead of his own . for a cloze to what at present i reply to his answer given unto my first query , it is very observable , that he doth not at all , his long answer throughout , so much as touch upon one thing , which the said query asketh after with as great a desire of satisfaction , as after any thing besides . the query thus saluteth him : whether is there any precept , or example , in the gospel , of any person , how duly soever baptized , who disclaimed christian communion , either in church-fellowship , or in any the ordinances of the gospel , with those , whom he judged true beleevers , upon an account only of their not having been baptized , especially after such a manner , as he judged it necessary for them to have been ? these last words , especially after such a manner , &c. which are as emphatical as any other in all the query , and with which he found his cause harder pinched then with any thing besides , he prudently dissembles in his answer , as if they were not . to give a just and competent answer to the query , he should not only have attempted to prove , that there are examples in thegospel of baptized persons , who disclaimed church communion with beleevers upon the only account of their not having been baptized ( which indeed he hath attempted , though successlesly , ) but also that they disclaimed this communion with them upon the account only of their not having been baptized after such or such a particular mode , as they judged necessary . but speaking neither little nor much to this point , in stead of an answer in full to the query before him , he giveth us an answer that is empty ; and which speaketh short to other things , but to that which is most material , nothing at all . concerning his answer to the second query , it is of a like raw spinning with the former , and in neither respect , either of pertinency , or of truth , any whit more considerable then it . for , 1. ( to take notice in the beginning of this answer , of the same tergiversation , which we respited to the cloze of the former ) he doth his good will to say somewhat to what he conceived more repliable in the query ; but that which he apprehended ( as he had reason to do ) more intractable , he answereth with silence , and a prudential slip . yea whereas by transcribing so much of the query , as he doth , he induceth his reader to conceive that he presenteth him with the whole ; the truth is , that he wholly suppresseth and keeps out of sight , that intire clause , wherein the query beareth hardest upon him . for these words are not extant in his edition ; especially in case they had been baptized and solemnly consecrated by washing with water unto the service of jesus christ before . and as his prudence taught him not to acquaint his reader that there were any such words in the query , as these , so the same guide directed him to undertake somewhat else , in stead of answering any thing to the matter contained in them . for had his answer kept way with the demand intended in these words , it must have proved not simply , or only , that the apostles , or christians in their days , denyed church-communion unto beleevers not baptized , after their beleeving , but unto such beleevers also , who had been solemnly consecrated by washing with water unto the service of iesus christ before their beleeving . this he wisely considered was impossible for him to do : therefore he abandoneth it from amongst his undertakings . in the mean time we are like to have but a lame answer to the query . 2. how little savor , either of reason , or of truth , is there in the very first words of this answer ! for are they not these ? it doth not only appear , that the apostles and other christians would have declined church-communion with beleevers , because not baptized , but it appears that they did do it . for it sufficiently appears that men and women did beleeve , before they were baptized . by the way let this be minded ; that here also he evades and slips quire besides that , which that part of the query , to which here he pretends an answer , principally demanded . for it is here demanded , not only whether it can be proved , that the apostles , or other christians , would have declined church-communion with , but further , whether they would have denied this communion unto , such persons , whom they judged true beleevers , because not baptized . now the difference between , declining communion with , and , denying communion unto , is very broad . a man may decline , i. e. not do , many things , [ viz. in case he be not requested , or desired to do them ] which yet being requested , he would not deny to do . the apostles might very possibly decline , i. e. non-admit unbaptized beleevers into church-communion , upon a supposition that they desired it not . and yet as possibly , nay much more probably , not deny this communion unto them , in case they had desired it . but in as much as the anti-querist had not so much as in colour what to answer to this strein , or touch of the querie , his prudentials befriended him with this stratagem ; to leave out those words of the querie in the transcription , wherein this unruly demand was contained . but passing by this , how impertinently doth he argue that little which he undertakes , in the words mentioned ? for , first , suppose it should be granted him that the apostles and christians did decline communion with beleevers unbaptized , doth it presently follow , that therefore they declined it , because they were unbaptized ? a man declines such and such meats , which are tender and easie of digestion : but this proveth not , that their tenderness , or easiness of digestion is the reason why he declines them . every quality or property in a subject , is not the reason or ground of every thing that is done unto it , nor yet of the forbearance of every act , that is not acted upon , or about it . if my antiquerist demands ; but what can reasonably be supposed to be the reason or cause , why the apostles or others , should decline communion with un-baptized beleevers , but only their not being baptized ; i answer ; 1. that a simple non-admiting to communion , can in no tolerable construction be called , a declining of communion , or , of admiting to cōmunion . there be an hundred godly persons about thecity , whom i do not admit intochurch communion with me , whose communion notwithstanding i cannot with truth be charged to decline . therefore whilst my anti-querist only shews or proves , that the apostles , or others , did not admit into church-communion , beleevers unbaptized , he doth not at all hereby satisfie or answer thequestion propounded : this speaks of declining communion : he answers of not admiting to communion , here is only a stone given , when bread was demanded . yet , 2. to the question now propounded , i answer ; the reason why the apostles did not admit beleevers unbaptized into church-communion ( if this either should be granted , or could be proved ) is most probably this ; viz. because such beleevers desired it not of them . the apostles were not wont to admit into church-communion ( in that sence we now speak of admission ) any person against his will , or without his desire signified on such a behalf . if my friendly antogonist here replies ; but if the primitive beleevers did not desire admittance into church-communion , until they were baptized , why is not this primitive pattern followed now ? i answer ; 1. it is not affirmed , or granted , that they made no such desire , but only upon supposition , and for argument sake . yet , 2. the pattern mentioned , is , as far as i understand , generally followed in these days ; no person that i know , desiring church-communion , but such only , who judg themselves baptized , as the primitive christians did in their days . how untruly he saith , that it appears that the apostles and other christians did decline church-communion with beleevers unbaptized , because unbaptized , needs no further evidence then the late premises . the reason which he subjoyns , is most importunely impertinent . for what though it never so sufficiently appears that men and women did beleeve before they were baptized ? what is there in this to prove , that therefore the apostles and christians did decline church-communion with beleevers unbaptized , because unbaptized . he that can make hand and glove of this reason , and that which was to be proved by it , how gladly , were it possible , would i exchange understandings with him ! whereas he demands ; what is a not admiting , less , then a refusing to admit , them to such communion ? i answer ; that though i cannot tell what [ i. e. precisely how much ] less it is , yet this i am certain of ( and so may any other person readily be ) that very much less it is . a non-acting dothnot necessarily suppose an unwillingness to act , but possibly a want of an opportunity only for acting , and sometimes a want of power . but a refusing to act , always imports a want of will to act . 3. whereas he turns querist , and demands : will it follow , that because these external rites , baptism and the like , do not avail unto mens justification , when they are observed , that therefore they are not necessary unto church-communion . i answer affirmatively , yes , it will follow , for if men may be justified without baptism ; it follows that they may beleeve and be sanctified also , andconsequently brought into the number of saints , without it . now that the will and pleasure of the lord christ is , that all saints without exception , whether baptized or unbaptized , whether convinced of the necessity of baptism , orunconvinced , should be perfected [ i. e. built up to the greatest meetness for their inheritance in light , that may be ] and consequently admitted into church-communion , where the best means of such an edification are to be found , hath been sufficiently ( i trust ) proved in the preceding considerations . concerning the rite of circumcision , how , and with what limitations it was necessary to church-communion amongst the jews ; as likewise how different the consideration of circumcision , and baptism , is , about the regulation of church-communion , hath been argued at large already . and whereas he demands ; how then can the querist estimate the usefulnes and disusefulness of baptism as to church-communion , by circumcision , as he doth , &c. the querist answereth , that he is so far from doing that , which he is here charged to do , that ( as he even now intimated ) his since is , that there is altogether a different consideration between circumcision and baptism , in their respective relations to church-communion . only herein he confesseth an agreement between them , that as that is not circumcision , which is outward in the flesh ( rom. 2. 28. meaning , not the circumcision which much commendeth any man unto god ) so neither is that baptism which is externally administred and received , the baptism that much interesseth any person in his favour . 4. whereas he yet demands , how the apostles or others christians in these times would have known , or have been able upon good ground to have concluded , that such persons had truly beleeved in christ unto justification , and had been meet to be admitted to communion with them , who should ( if any such had been ) have refused to obey christ in submitting to baptism , &c. i answer ; whosoever refuseth [ i. e. professedly denyeth ] to obey christ , not only in submitting unto baptism , but in any other of his commands , [ being made known to be his unto him ] cannot ( i suppose ) by any argument or testimony whatsoever be concluded to beleeve in christ unto justification . but this nothing hindereth , but that in case any person be in the general course of his life conscientious , and observant of the laws of christ as far as the knowledg hereof shall come to him , he may be upon this account concluded a beleever unto justification , although being ignorant of , or dissatisfied about , any particular law of christ , as suppose his law concerning baptism , he should not exhibit obedience unto it . nor is a refusal to submit unto baptism , in these days , of a like interpretation with such a refusal in the days of the apostles : because then there could be no place for any question or doubt , whether a submitting unto baptism , at least being required by the apostles , were an act of obedience unto christ , or no ; whereas now it is the sence of some worthy christians ( i do not say it is mine ) that a submission unto baptism is rather an act of will-worship , then of obedience unto christ , and others are dissatisfied about the necessity of it . therefore although a refusing to be baptized then , did argue a rejection of the councel of god , in the refusers ; yet supposing that god hath now layd baptism aside ( which is the judgment of those lately mentioned ) a refusing to submit unto it rather argueth an accepting , then a rejecting , of the councel of god . as the jews who refused to submit , unto circumcision after the gospel had been preached unto them , did not herein reject the councel of god concerning circumcision , but imbrace and accept it ; however such a refusal before would have been a rejection of it . 5. neither doth the querist estimate the apostles judgment of gospel rites by what he speaks of circumcision , but by what he opposeth both to circumcision , and to uncircumcision , and speaketh concerning them . for whereas the apostle expresseth himself , thus : in jesus christ neither circumcision availeth any thing , nor uncircumcision , but faith which worketh by love : and again , circumcision is nothing , and uncircumcision is nothing , but the keeping of the commandments of god ; he plainly declares and avoucheth , that that which is opposite to such things which are nothing , a vail nothing , ( and consequently , which is somewhat , and which highly availeth ) is not baptism , nor any other external rite or ceremony , but such a thing , which is as contra-distinguishable against these , as against circumcision , or uncircumcision themselves , viz. faith which worketh by love ; and , the keeping of the commandments of god . nor doth an opposition made between faith , and gospel ordinances , any whit more set them together by the ears , then the evangelist john sets moses and christ ( who were and are , as good friends , as faith and gospel rites ) together by the ears , in making this opposition between them : for the law was given by moses : but grace and truth came by jesus christ . joh. 1. 17. or then john baptist set his baptism , and the baptism of christ , together by the ears , by opposing them thus : i indeed have baptized you with water : but he shall baptize you with the holy ghost and with fire . mar. 1. 9. he that saith , luther was of an active resolute , and tearing spirit , melancthon of a gentle and soft , doth not set these good friends together by the ears , but only shews wherein , notwithstanding their agreement as dear consorts and friends , they yet differed the one from the other . there are no two things in the world , but differ in something the one from the other : and consequently may in respect hereof , be opposed the one unto the other . yea though baptism ( i mean a submitting unto baptism ) be the keeping of a commandment of god ; yet may it regularly enough be opposed to the keeping of the commandments of god , as one man may be opposed unto many , or the setting of a mans foot out of his door , to the performance of a long journey . but these things are ( i suppose ) a little out of my anti-querist his element . 6. whereas he demands ; why doth the querist make circumcision a gospel rite , which is indeed a rite abolished by the gospel ? i may much more honestly demand , why doth the anti-querist lay to the querist charge a thing which he knoweth not , no nor yet the words of his querie ? for though he should say ( which yet he doth not , the anti-querist making too bold here , as too frequently elsewhere , to mis-recite his words , as the reader may readily observe by comparing the original all along with the transcript ) that under the gospel circumcision by a synechdoche speciei is put for all external rites and ceremonies , yet doth not such a saying as this necessarily suppose , or imply , circumcision to be a gospel rite . for rites , or ceremonies , being of two kinds , some of divine , others of humane institution , the apostle may by the sayd figure synechdoche , mention only circumcision , in stead of all other divine rites , without supposing it to be a gospel rite , inasmuch as there were far more rites of divine institution under the law , then there are under the gospel . his following words , and if for all kind , then certainly for gospel rites and ceremonies ; for they are some of all , have neither goodness of sence in them , nor pertinency to his business in hand . for what though circumcision be put for all kinds of rites [ of divine institution ] and consequently , for gospel rites also , yet doth it follow from hence , that it self must needs be a gospel rite ? by what principle in reason is this consequence formed ? supposing there are two sorts of men in the world , rich , and poor , and i , having occasion to speak of men in general , should , to give some light to my discourse , instance in john , thomas , or james , i should not by my instancing iohn ( for example ) in this case , suppose him to be determinately either a rich man , or a poor . but these things ( i confess ) are scarce worth the examining , excepting only that me thinks i perceive my anti-querist in a little extasie of contentment , by vertue of a conceit he hath that i have so ill behaved my self in the passage in hand , that he can make large earnings by descanting upon it . and i would wilingly awaken him out of his extasie . for certain i am , that there is nothing in the query , rightly understood , but is exception-proof . and the truth is , that all things in his answer to this query from first to last , duly considered , together with that his contentment mentioned , there seems to be a mixture of a kind of discontent against the apostle for opposing faith , the new creature , keeping the commandments of god , unto circumcision , and not baptism rather . for if it had been written thus ; in christ jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing , nor uncircumcision , but baptism which is by dipping , or plunging into water , i beleeve he would have been as hard or heavy to be born , as an hand maid that is heir to her mistris : prov. 30. 23. and i understand that a great doctor of that way , taking occasion not long since to open the said passage of the apostle to his people , made speciall treasure of this observation from it , that although the apostle saith , that in christ iesus circumcision availeth nothing , yet he doth not say that baptism availeth nothing . if he had understood the apostle ( a trouble of mind not much incident to th●● generation ) he must needs have known , that however the apostle did not in so many words say , that baptism availeth nothing , yet constructively and in pregnancie and neer-handedness of consequence , he said every whit as much , yea and somewhat more too . for by shuting out circumcision instance-wise , together with uncircumcision , and letting in onely faith , the new creature , the keeping the commands of god , it is a plain case that together with circumcision he excluded baptism also , yea and all other ceremoniall practications whatsoever . but such an observation as that now specified , is a competent instance , or example , whereby to estimate how unworthily the scriptures are commonly handled in those congregations . but , 6. my anti-querist greatneth the pile of his former impertinencies by heaping all these words upon it : neither surely would any man ( much less the querist ) be so impertinent , as to assert no externall rite availeable under the gospel , because circumcision is not , unless he held circumcision to be as much a gospel rite , as any other ; since it is against common sence to say , that which is greater is not available to such or such an end , because that which is less is not ; and yet more irrationall would it be to assert the non-availeableness of that which is , from the non-availeableness of that which is not : which yet would be the trip of the querist , if he should not think that circumcision had some manner of institutive being , yea as eminent a being under the gospel , as any other rite of the gospel hath . hereunto add we this vaine-glorious vapour in the following paragraph : truly i cannot but think that cause hard bested , that is fain to beg its bread out of such desolate places as is that of circumcision for one , whose foundation was long since rased by the hand of the gospel to the very ground . the long thread of all this discourse is spun of tow that hath touched the fire . the basis and ground work of the whole fabrick hath been already , rased to the very ground . for my friend al along supposeth , 1. that i make the best and most conscientious observation of gospel rites , of no acceptation at all with god . 2. that i argue that comparative non-availableness of gospel rites , which i assert and hold , from the non-availableness of circumcision simply considered . against both these i have sufficiently explained my self already , and likewise vindicated the words of the queree from any intimation or supposition of either . touching the former , i shall add nothing to the premises relating thereunto . for the latter , i have likewise shewed in as plain english as i know how to write , that neither do i , nor the queree , argue the comparative non-availableness of baptism , which the queree onely asserteth ( as the anti-querist himself yeildeth , as we formerly heard ) from the non-availableness of circumcision simply considered ( this we have formerly shewed to be a palpable mistake ) but from circumcision considered in that opposition , which the apostle maketh ( in the scripture before us ) between it , and faith ; and again , between it , and the new creature . from this opposition it evidently appeareth , that the apostle by excluding circumcision ( with uncircumcision ) from that availableness with god , which he solely ascribes unto faith , the new creature and the keeping the commandments of god , intended together with circumcision , to exclude all ceremoniall observances , as well those of the gospel , as those of the law . this considered , it had been more honour for the anti-querist to have kept himself as free from the charge , as the querist is from the crime or trip , of reasoning at any such rate of non-sence , at this : because that which is less , is not available to such , or such as end ; therefore neither is that which is greater available hereunto : or again , because that which is not , is not available ; therefore neither is that which is . how can i but think that my friend dreamt waking , when such reasonings as these , presented themselves to his imagination , as the arguing of his friend the querist ? either he complements profoundly in his private address by letter unto him , wherein he pretends to give him the right hand of himself in abilities to manage a discourse ; or else he renders himself weak indeed in such affairs , by making himself an underling in abilities to a man , the tenour and strain of whose reasonings is so far beneath the line of the most irrationall of men . by this time we suppose that the vapour also mentioned is wholly vanished into the ayre . the cause he speaks of , cannot well , at least needs not , beg the bread of it's support out of desolate places ; there being very few places , especially in the new testament , but which yeild this bread plentifully . a taste hereof is given in the premised considerations . but concerning the place , which he calls desolate , it hath been proved over and over , that there groweth a strong staff of bread for the support of the cause depending , in the very midst of it . 7. and lastly , whereas he demands ; but why also doth the querist oppose the rites and ceremonies of the gospel , or under the gospel , to the keeping the commands of god , &c. he should rather have demanded a reason why the apostle doth it . but whether it be the apostle , or the querist , or both , who makes this opposition , a plain reason hath been given of it , and the sense declared wherein this opposition is to be understood . yea i suppose the anti-querist himself can hardly be so enormously extravagant in his opinion or notion about baptism , as not to judg but that an habituall and constant course of obedience to the rest of the commandements of god , doth much more highly commend a person unto god , then one single act of an externall submission unto baptism . if so , then is there a manifest ground for an opposition between baptism , and a keeping of the commandments of god , yea though a subjection unto baptism be supposed to be an act of keeping one of these commandments , yea and available also , to a degree , for a commending of men unto god . for as little may very regularly be opposed unto much , and so , less , unto more ; so may that which is less acceptable unto god , be very properly , and according to the strictest rules of opposition , be opposed unto that which is more . neither is there so much as a face , or the lightest appearance of a contra-diction , between denying the observation of the ceremonies of the gospel to be available ( comparatively ) to any mans acceptation with god , and an affirming that a keeping the commands of god is highly available to such a purpose . but enough of this with a surplussage , formerly . thus we see plainly , and without a parable , that no answer hath as yet been given by the anti-querist to the two first queries , unless by answer we understand any thing which he that makes it is pleased so to cal . nor is it any disparagement to any mans abilities or worth , that he isnot able to make an egg stand end-ways upon a smooth table , without cracking it , though such an undertaking may ( i confess ) somewhat reflect upon him . my friend ( my anti-querist ) hath susteyned no loss at all in my esteem of his parts and abilities , by drawing up so insufficient an answer to the queries , as he hath don . for i well know and consider how far a mistaken province will oppress , abuse , and belye any mans learning , knowledg , parts , and abilities whatsoever . i suppose there is no need of any further ingagement of mine against the said answer ; the first fruits being polluted , the whole lump is hereby sufficiently proved to be unclean . only i shall take notice from his answer to the fourth query , how impertinently he citeth ( and upon no better account , vindicateth ) this of the apostle . ( 1 tim. 6. 1. ) let as many servants as are under the yoke , count their own masters worthy of all honour , to overthrow this assertion of his querist , that this particle , as many as , in such constructions as those rom. 6. 3. and gal. 3 27. is always partitive . when the apostle ( saith he ) saith , let as many servants , as are under the yoke , count , &c. doth he thereby suppose , or imply , that there were some servants that were not under the yoke , or who were not to count their masters worthy all honour ? yes ( my good friend ) the apostle doth here suppose that there were some servants not under such a yoke as that , whereof he here speaks ; as is most evident from the opposition which he makes in the very nex words , verse . 2. speaking of servants of another kind ; but those who have beleeving masters , {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , let them not despise them , &c. and the best expositors generally acknowledg and give notice of a distribution or partition of servants into two kinds , in this context of scripture ; yet not into two such kinds neither , as my antiquerist notioneth in his objection , which he so favorably frameth against himself , that he may plaufibly ( at least ) answer it . servants are not here distributed into beleeving , and unbeleeving ; but into such who are under the yoke , [ viz. of unbeleeving masters ] and such , who are free from this yoke , as being servants to masters , who beleeve . both the one and the other kind of servants are plainly enough supposed by the apostle to be beleevers . nor was it his manner in any of his epistles , to give directions about the carriage or behavior of infidels , or to prescribe matters of duty unto them . how impertinent then is that which he pretends in the answer , which he draweth up to his own objection , viz. that these expressions , as many as , used . rom. 6. 3. gal. 3. 27. intentionally only respect those at rome ( and so in galatia ) who did beleeve , and were baptized , and therefore are partitive in respect of others the inhabitants of those places , dividing those of these churches from others dwelling in the same places , &c. for what can be more evident then that the apostle by the particle , {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , as manyas , in the scriptures before us , did not intend to divide the beleeving members of the churches of rome & galatia , from the unbeleeving party of men in these places , but only beleevers themselves amongst themselves , the baptized , from the un-baptized ; considering that in the former of the said places , he expresseth himself thus ; know ye not that so many of us as were baptized into jesus christ , &c. and in the latter , thus : for as many of yov as have been baptized , & c ? is it worthy any mans belief , that paul writing thus to the beleeving members of the church at rome , know ye not that so many of us that were baptized , &c. should either in the pronoun , us include nero , with all the rabble of pagan idolater in rome , as if he wrot to these , as well as to the saints or that he intended to signifie unto them , that himself was one of those , who dwelt in rome ? or is not his meaning in saying so many of us as , &c. clearly this , that as many of us saints , or of us beleevers , who have been baptized ? for in what other consideration , rel●●ion , or respect , he should make himself one of them , is not easie to imagin . evident it is from chap. 1. 13. 15. that he was no dweller in rome , at the time of writing this epistle , nor had been any time before . so likewise when he writes to the churches , and members of the churches of galatia , thus ; for as many of yov as have been baptized , &c. can his meaning be , as many of you who dwell in galatia , as have been baptized ? or doth not such a sence as this plainly imply , that he wrote his epistle aswel to the infidels in the countries of galatia , as to the members of the christian churches there ? therefore ( questionless ) the apostles meaning in the words before us , is plainly and directly this : as many of you , who being members of the churches of galatia , have been baptized into christ , have put on christ : and consequently the particle {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , as many as , is not partitive of the beleevers in the places mentioned , from the rest of unbeleeving inhabitants there , but of beleevers amongst themselves , those that had been baptized , from those who were at present unbaptized , in either place respectively . this to be the express sence of the two passages mentioned might be further evidenced by the light of sundry considerations , but that we judge the premises already levied sufficient to establish that conclusion . it being then so clear a case , that there were some members of churches in the apostles days , who were unbaptized , at least for a time , it undenyably follows , that baptism is no constitutor of churches ; as the beloved notion of my anti-querist beareth . concerning that copweb-piece , stiled by the author , some baptismal abuses briefly discovered , wherewith some silly flies ( as i understand ) have been intangled and catched , there is a besome preparing for the brushing away of that also from the temple of god , so far as it is catching , and hath not been dismantled by the contents of these papers . for the tail of it , wherein the sting , and the worst of the poyson lies , hath been cut off and swept away hereby . the anatomy of ana-baptism . ana-baptism , is , by the modern architects of it , built upon foundations , or grounds of three sorts . some 1. true , but not pertinent . 2. fals , and therefore not pertinent . 3. conjecturall onely , and therefore very little pertinent . 1. of the first sort are 1. all those texts of scripture , on which they mis-ground , first their opinion , and then their practictise . as , mat. 19. 28. mar. 16. 16. act. 2. 38 , 41. act. 8. 37. rom. 6. 3 , 4. coloss. 2. 12. heb. 6. 2. ( possibly with some others ) these are true grounds of doctrines , and practises corresponding ; but are irrelative to the doctrine and practise of ana-baptism . 2. of this sort also , are these , and some other like tenents upon which they build their said fabrick . 1. that in the scripture there is no particular or expresse , either precept , or example , for infant-baptism . 2. that no ordinance of christ , can be neglected , or omitted , without sin . this rightly understood , and with due limitation , is a truth also : but thus understood , it reacheth not their practise . 2. of the second sort are these , 1. that in case infants were not baptized in the dayes of iohn the baptist , nor of christ , nor of his apostles , then ought not baptism to be administred unto infants now . 2. that circumcision was neither sign nor seal of the righteousness of faith , or of the covenant of grace , but unto the person of abraham onely . 3. that baptism it self is no seal of the covenant of grace unto any person whatsoever , but a sign onely . 4. that an administration of baptism made to professing beleevers , doth more conduce unto , and better answer the ends of baptism , then that which is made to infants . 5. that infant-baptism is disagreeable to the ministration of the new testament . 6. that none ought to be baptized but such who [ in their own person ] appear voluntarily willing to be baptized in obedience unto god . 7. that infant-baptism is a nullitie . 8. that infant-church-member-ship was a leviticall ceremonie , and abolished ( with the rest of the legall ceremonies ) by christ in the gospell . 9. that a profession of faith , whether reall , or feigned , is a more warrantable ground , whereon to administer baptism , then an estate in grace , though attested by god himself . 10. that any person un-baptized , may , without special commission from god , and without proof-making of such a commission , administer baptism ; and that such a mans administration ( together with all the administrations lineally descending from it ) is the institution of christ . 11. that any person whatsoever pretending to beleeve , and to have been baptized , whether invested into any office , or not , may as lawfully administer baptism , as he that is an officer in a church . 12. that not simply baptism , but the administration of baptism to beleevers onely , is an ordinance of christ properly so called . 13. that there can be no warrantable ground for the administration of an ordinance to such or such a subject , or after such or such a manner , but either a particular and express precept for , or example of , the one , and the other . 14. that there ought to be a resemblance , or similitude , between the sign , and the thing signified [ as there is between the bush , and the wine in the vintners celler ; and was between the streight pole on which the brazen serpent was lift up , and the cross timber , on which the lord christ was crucified ; and again between the rain-bow , and the safty of the earth from drowning , between circumcision , and the covenant which god made with abraham , and his seed . ] 15. that the baptizing of infants is unlawful , because it is not a ordinance of christ . 16. that obedience to external rites , ordinances and institutions , is to be preferred before obedience to the law of nature , or to the precepts of the moral law . 17. that no circumstance mentioned in the tenour of an institution , or observed in the first administration thereof , can without sin either be omitted , or varied , in after administrations , upon any occasion or consideration whatsoever . 18. that persons baptized after the new mode of dipping , though void of saving grace , and strangers unto holiness , are notwithstanding , by vertue of such their baptism , rendered visible saints ; whereas others not so baptized , are invisible , notwithstanding the greatest exemplariness of saint-ship in the whole course of their lives , and conversations otherwise . 19. that children under the gospel are more unworthy , more unmeet , less capable , subjects of baptism , then they were of circumcision under the law . 20. that it was better , and more edifying unto men to receive the initiating or first sacramental pledg of gods fatherly love and care , in the time of their infancy , under the law ; and that now under the gospel , it is worse , and less edifying unto them to receive it at the same time , and better and more edifying to receive it afterwards , viz. when they come to years of discretion . 21. that the jews , who beleeved in christ , and so came under the gospel administration , were , in respect of their children , in a worse condition , then they had been in under the law : and that such of the gentiles , who were by faith engrafted into their olive , did , in their children , partake less of the root and fatness thereof , then the iews themselves , before the coming of christ in the flesh , had done : and consequently , that god was much more indulgent unto children , yea and unto parents in reference to their children , under the law , then he is under the gospel . 22. that parents may dis-interess their children of church priviledges , by their apostacy or unbelief ; but cannot restore them hereunto by their repentance , or beleeving . 23 that such iews , who , together with there children , were church-members , before their coming in by faith unto christ , by this coming in to christ , bereaved their children of this priviledg without any recompence . of the third ( and last ) sort are these . 1. that there was no child in any of those families or housholds , which are recorded in the new testament to have been baptized . 2. that no infant or child was baptized in the days of iohn the baptist , or of christ , or of the apostles . 3. that all , and every the respective members of all and every the respective churches in the apostles days , were baptized . 4. that the eunuch baptized by philip . act. 8. and those gentiles commanded by peter to be baptized , act. 10. were baptized by a total immersion of their bodies under water by those , who baptized them . 5. that persons , who from their infancy , or first capacity of making any profession of religion at all , have publiquely and constantly professed the name and faith of christ in the world , ought to be baptized into this profession after ten , twenty , forty years spent and passed in this profession . 6. that infant-baptism was first brought into the christian church after the days of the apostles . 7. that baptism ought aswel to be administred , yea and urged and imposed , in a place , city or country , where the gospel hath flourished for an hundred years together , or more , as at , or about the time , when ( through the providence of god ) it first came in the ministry of it , unto this place . of these three kinds of arguments or grounds ( as they have been now represented ) that the first are impertinent ( as to the justification of ana-baptism ) the second , erroneous ; the third and last , conjectural only , i am all thoughts made ; and shall , god sparing me health and life , and more material occasions not intervening , give an account of my faith herein in due time . finis . errata . pag. 24. l. 36. read , operatio . pag. 30. l. 27. r. actuall . pag. 36. l. 25. r. separate . pag. 37. l. 24. for muck r. smoak . pag. 44. l. 26. r. should have . pag. 45. l. 1. r. baptism . pag. 46. l. 37. r. or the cup . pag. 51. l. 35. r. much more . pag. 56. l. 4. r. or at least . pag. 59. l. 29. for , two r. to . pag. 61. l. ult , r. whether . pag. 69. l. 13. r. admitted . pag. 77. l. 34. r. other . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a85422e-220 fides cum haeretic●s non est servanda . notes for div a85422e-350 * by son of man here , is not meant christ ( personally considered , ) but any person of mankind . see hugo grotius upon the place , who giveth a sufficient account of this exposition . * eos quoque asserit diabolico ut● spiritu , qui separant ecclesiam dei : ut omnium temporum haereticos & schismaticos comprehenderet , quibus indulgentiam negat , quod omne peccatum [ aliud ] est circa singulus , hoc in universos . soli enim sunt qui volunt solvire christi gratiam , qui eccleslae membra discerpunt , propter quam passus est dominus , spiritusque , sanctus datus est nobis . ambr. de poenitentia . lib. 2. c. 4. † treatise entituled , of baptism , ( p. 22. ) generally presumed written by mr lawrence . see rom. ● . 7. 1 cor. 1. 2. 2 cor. 1. 1. ephes. 1. 1. phil. 1. 1. col. ● . 2. 1. cor. 5. 11. 2 thes. 3 6. * mr fisher . baby-baptism , p. 370. act. 15. ●0 . the doctrine of baptism is numbred as mongst the foundations of christ ( i.e. such principles or doctrines , as were usually first taught and learned by yong scholars in christianity , as being easie of perception ) but this proveth not the actual reception of the rite of any baptism , one or other , is essential to the making a man a true member of christ , nor yet of a church of christ , any whit mo●e ( if so much ) then a cordial beleif of that far greater foundation ( of the two ) the resurrection of the dead . * this commission cannot be thought to obliege , or impower , ordinary pastors or teachers ; because they were not to go and teach all nations ; but to watch over those particular flocks , over which the holy ghost maketh them overseers , acts 20. 28. 1 pet. 5. 2. a those words dan. 12. 13. but go thou thy way til the end be , for thou shalt rest & stand up in thy lot at the end of the days , are commonly understood in a sence of much affinity hereunto . a the word , {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , is commonly rendred , sect. see act. 5. 17. act. 15. 5. act. 24. 15. 5. act. 26. 5. act. 28. 22. a mat. 3. 7. & 23. 33. b luk. 3. 1. & 7. 50 act. 15. 5 c psal. 105. 36. d 2 kin. 8. 12 , 13 * luke 12 , ●0 , mat , 20. 22 23 a gal. 3 1. b gal. 4. 11. a exod. 15 23. first argument against lawfullness of communion with undipt churches , answered . second argument answered . the third argument ans●ered . fourth ( and last ) argument against the lawfulness of communion with churches undipt , answered . notes for div a85422e-6350 seneca . a luk. 12 49 , 51 , 52 , 53. * gal. 4. 1. 2. 3 , &c. the answer to the second query , examined . the loyal baptist, or, an apology for the baptized believers ... occasioned by the great and long continued sufferings of the baptized believers in this nation / by thomas grantham ... grantham, thomas, 1634-1692. 1684 approx. 260 kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from 55 1-bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : 2008-09 (eebo-tcp phase 1). a41782 wing g1540 estc r26748 09531500 ocm 09531500 43526 this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons 0 1.0 universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase 1, no. a41782) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set 43526) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, 1641-1700 ; 1332:6a, 1634:4) the loyal baptist, or, an apology for the baptized believers ... occasioned by the great and long continued sufferings of the baptized believers in this nation / by thomas grantham ... grantham, thomas, 1634-1692. [6], 40 p. printed for the author and are to be sold by tho. fabian ..., london : 1684. contains two title pages, with the same imprint, but different dates, the first appearing t.p. dated 1684, the second, 1674. "containing i. his humble resolution to be a constant conformist to the scriptures, and especially in these four great duties, viz. 1. to honour all men, 2. to love the brotherhood, 3. bound and filmed at reel 1332:6a with g1546 following: the second part of the apology for the baptized believers. this item appears at reels 1332:6a and 1634:4. reproductions of original in the british library. created by converting tcp files to tei p5 using tcp2tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between 1473 and 1700 available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the 25,363 texts created during phase 1 of the project have been released into the public domain as of 1 january 2015. anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. 5% (or 5 pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of 100 instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level 4 of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p5, characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng baptists -apologetic works. dissenters, religious -england. 2007-11 tcp assigned for keying and markup 2007-11 apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images 2008-01 judith siefring sampled and proofread 2008-01 judith siefring text and markup reviewed and edited 2008-02 pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion the loyal baptist : or an apology for the baptized believers . containing i. his humble resolution to be a constant conformist to the scriptures , and especially in these four great duties , viz. 1. to honour all men. 2. to love the brotherhood . 3. to fear god. 4. to honour the king. according to 1 peter 2. 17. ii. his unfeigned endeavour for unity in the truth with the church of england ; wherein is shewed what 〈◊〉 a distinction in communion between the parochial 〈…〉 those of the baptized believers : wherein fourteen 〈◊〉 lately published by mr. n. t. m. a. in defence of infant-baptism , are considered , and answered . iii. his plea for church-assemblies to be permitted to the baptized believers . to which purpose is declared , iv. the nature of his call to christianity , and to the work of the ministry . occasioned by the great and long continued sufferings of the baptized believers in this nation . by thomas grantham , a servant of christ . job 21. 4. as for me , is my complaint to 〈◊〉 ? and if it were so , why should not my spirit be troubled ? causabon's birth of heresy , c. 3. p. 11. in all ages men have never been contented with the true adoration instituted by god : but instead of external signs instituted by god , — they have forged and brought in their own inventions . london , printed for the author , and are to be sold by tho. fabian at the bible in st. paul's church-yard , 1684. the loyal baptist : or an apology for the baptized believers . being also an earnest persuasive to them and all christians , to study to be quiet , and do their own business , in these important particulars , viz. i. to honour all men. ii. to love the brotherhood . iii. to fear god. iv. to honour the king. delivered in two sermons upon 1 pet. 2. 17. by thomas grantham , a servant of christ . my son , fear thou the lord , and the king : and meddle not with them that are given to change . prov. 24. 21. but — whether it be right in the sight of god , to hearken unto you more than unto god , judg ye ? acts 4. 19. london , printed for the author , and are to be sold by tho. fabian at the bible in st. paul's church-yard , 1674. to all the baptized believers in england , &c. grace and peace through christ our lord be multiplied . the great apostle st. paul , having taught the christian churches in creet their duties towards god , and towards caesar ; and leaving titus ( a messenger of the churches ) behind him there , very strictly warns him to put them in mind of their subjection to principalities , and powers , and to obey magistrates . knowing how impossible it would be to propagate the profession of christianity , if christians did not adorn their profession with a meek and harmless conversation towards all men , and especially by their obedience to those in authority . and considering the manifold temptations that attend christians in these days upon that account , i thought it my duty , as one that has obtained mercy to be faithful , to do my best in giving warning to my brethren , lest any of them should be ensnared with ill principles , or specious pretences , to speak or do any thing that may be inconsistent with gospel-rules , either in things relating more immediately to almighty god , or to the king's majesty , and those that are in authority under him . such heady persons there were in the apostle's days , and therefore the less strange if now some such be found in the best of churches , as are not afraid to speak evil of dignities : all ages and sorts of christians have been troubled with such evil-workers . and as it hath been the care of faithful men all along to protest against them , that the truth ( which such wretches only prophane by their profession of it ) might not be worse thought of because of them ; so let it be our care to bear a faithful testimony against all such in these days . and i beseech you brethren , whom god hath made as guides to the rest , that you give all diligence to teach and instruct those under your charge , in the duties which pertain to every state of life ; as well as in things which pertain to the worship of our gracious god : for these are the things which become sound doctrine , and of these our obedience to magistrates is not the least . i commit the ensuing discourses to the consideration of all christians , and to the blessing of god , and remain , your brother , and servant in the gospel , tho. grantham . the loyal baptist : or an apology for the baptized believers . being also an earnest persuasive to them all , to study to be quiet , and to do their own business , in these important particulars , viz. i. to honour all men. ii. to love the brotherhood . iii. to fear god. iv. to honour the king. delivered in several discourses upon 1 pet. 2. 17. honour all men , love the brotherhood , fear god , honour the king. this great apostle , st. peter , having preached christ in many countries , thought it meet to leave some monuments of his holy doctrine with all the churches . and having in two sacred epistles assured them of the certainty of the doctrine which he had preached , and that it was no fable or new device , but the very truth which from the beginning god made known to his prophets : he then exhorts them to stedfastness , and to hope to the end for the grace or fulness of glory , which shall be brought to all true christians at the revelation or second coming of christ . he warns them to beware of sin , chiefly that root of malice , envy and hypocrisy , ( for these are usually complicated in one ) : for as it gave being to all our misery , and has been all along the ruine of nations , churches , and communities ; so we are advertised that it will abound towards the end of the world. to avoid this damning iniquity , we are willed to consider our new birth , and as new-born babes to evidence our delight to be in the sincere milk of the word of god , not in the vanities of this world , where we are but pilgrims and strangers ; assuring us , that as christ is the sure foundation to support his church : so , ( however some builders do set him at naught ) he is the head of the corner , and will certainly in time confound the disobedient , 1 pet. 2. 7 , 8. howbeit , lest christians should be too impatient of the seeming delay of christ's exaltation , and of the manifold tribulations which in the mean time they must suffer ; he further warns them to be of an obedient and submissive spirit to such as are in authority , and to adorn their profession , by an honest conversation , as the best way to silence their opposers ; for so is the will of god , that with well-doing ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men , 1 pet. 2. 15. for tho it be very true that all christians are the lord's freemen , 1 cor. 7. 22. yet they may not maliciously despise any man , nor dishonour any man , much less any that are in authority : christianity being indeed the greatest obligation that any man can be under , to preserve and chearfully to give to all their dues , in respect of love , honour , fear , tribute , custom , &c. god is to have the things which are god's , princes the things which are theirs , and all men ( as well those that are not christians as those that are ) must have that love and honour which is their due even from the servants of christ . thus then we approach the text ; which calls upon us to honour all men , love the brotherhood , to fear god , and to honour the king. in which directions is briefly contained the whole duty of a christian man. as , 1. his duty in general to mankind , honour all men. 2. his particular duty to the church of god , love the brotherhood . 3. his special duty to almighty god , fear god. 4. his obedience to the higher powers , honour the king. in opening these words , we shall consider the genuine import of them . 1. honour all men. ( 1. ) the word honour here , according to the greek , may be understood thus , esteem all men highly , value all men at an high price , or count them precious : and hence , tremelius reads the place omnem hominem in honore habite , have all men in high esteem or honour . and in this direction is implied that lowly and gracious spirit , that friendly and amicable temper which all christians should have and evidence towards mankind : for he that is not of a lowly spirit , cannot honour all men. ( 2. ) by all men , we must not here admit of the exception of any man as such ; but forasmuch as they are all the off-spring of god , it is the will of god that a due esteem be given to them all , as the most noble part of his creation under the sun ; — and but a little lower than the angels , psal . 8. 2. love the brotherhood . by love here we may safely understand , a more special kind of love than that which we owe to all men , which is well expressed , in the 2 epist . of john , whom i love in the truth , for the truths sake which dwelleth in us . hence some of our translators render the words thus , love brotherly fellowship . and the rhemists tells us , that this speech often commendeth the vnity of all christians among themselves . 3. fear god. the original imports an awful dread , or such a fear as causeth trembling ; and 't is the same word used , mat. 10. 28. where it is evident such a fear is intended : but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. by the fear of god therefore in this place , we must understand the dutiful observance of his revealed will ( for so the fear of god is sometimes taken ) as ever we expect to see his face with comfort : and here the fear of man is excluded , because it brings a snare , prov. 29. 25. and is a fatal prevention to the service of god. 4. honour the king. ( 1. ) the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 does not barely signify honour , or esteem , in this place ; but a magnificent or splendid kind of honour : for so hath the lord ordained for his vicegerents , giving them the title of gods in psal . 82. 6. ( 2. ) it is carefully to be considered what king is immediately meant in our text : he could be no king of israel , for the kings of israel had failed long before this epistle was written ; and tho christ was born king of the jews , yet he did not enter upon his regality with respect to the government of that , nor any other nation : but plainly tells us , his kingdom is not of this world. nor did the apostle speak of any christian king , for as yet none of the princes of this world knew christ , 1 cor. 2. 8. the king therefore here immediately intended was an heathen king , the king of the romans , who at that time ( as historians relate ) was both of very wicked life , and idolatrous in his religion , calling himself pontifex maximus , as being chief about the worship of jupiter . and yet , s. peter will have him honoured even by those who had put themselves under the yoak of christ , their heavenly king. and st. paul expresly requires the same , rom. 13. 1. wherefore from the text thus explained , we should learn these four things . i. that christians must by no means be of an haughty , scornful , nor wrathful spirit towards any man ; but of an humble and gentle behaviour , to pay the debt of honour to all , and to esteem them precious . ii. brotherly fellowship , love and concord , are to be sought for , and maintained by all christians , one with another , as such . iii. christians must have an awful fear of god before their eyes , that in matters of religion they may serve him only , and not provoke him by sinful courses , nor by the fear of man. iv. christians are bound by gospel-rules to be good subjects to princes , to honour their persons , and conscienciously to obey their authority . these propositions do harmonize with the doctrine which is according to godliness . for the first ; that christians must by no means ( as they tender their claim to the venerable title of christian , and to any part in the kingdom of christ ) be of an haughty , scornful or wrathful spirit against any man , is a doctrine needful to be proclaimed by an heavenly herald , by the voice of an archangel , even to that part of the world called christendom : for who can sufficiently bewail the almost utter absence of this gracious spirit , which abounded in the author and first professors of christianity ; and the undeniable appearance of a spirit of a quite contrary nature at this day , in all parts of the world where christ is named ? from whence come wars and fightings ? come they not hence , even from pride ? as it is written , prov. 13. 10. only by pride cometh contention . what greater injuries , indignities , and dishonours can be offered by mortals one towards another , than are amongst the several orders professing christianity ? yea , very often by men of the same order , one towards another ? so very far are the generality of christians from obeying the voice of our text. and look how far they are gone from the spirit of humility and tenderness , which leads all that have it to esteem mankind very precious ; so far they have lost the christian religion , as will appear in proving the first proposition . to which purpose , 1. we shall give precendency to our lord christ , who perceiving an haughty spirit peeping forth in his chosen disciples , even then whilst the very mirror of meekness and humility was before their eyes , does solemnly denounce unto them , ( and in them to all christians ) that except they were converted , and became as little children , they should by no means enter into the kingdom of heaven . luke 18. 15. and therewithal gives notice of a wo impending or coming upon the world , from that spirit of pride and ambition , in this so early an appearance of it , which yet notwithstanding seems to have over-run the church in all ages , to the scandal of religion . but would so small a fault in the chosen disciples , ( as it may seem , in respect of that which is now every where to be found ) shut heaven against them , unless those converted souls were converted in that case ? let us tremble to think of this . it 's clear from this instance , that such as are of an haughty mind , cannot honour all men. they are bladders puffed up with this wind ; break this bladder , there is meer emptiness . their goodness vanishes , when they cannot lift themselves above others . whereas the truly gracious soul studies how to serve god , and all men for his sake ; and thus to honour them , is the greatest respect that any christian can give to men. thus did our lord himself honour all : he took upon him the form of a servant . phil. 2. 7. and indeed his great design in his life and doctrine , was to restore mankind to a state of grace , and reconciliation with god , and thereby to amity and concord one with another . 2. next to our saviour , let us hear his beloved disciple john. he often speaks to the whole church under the title of little children ; and the metaphor is very fit for christians , as in other respects , so chiefly in this , to put them in mind , they must in no wise be of a lofty and wrathful spirit . he tells us , the love of god is not in those men , who have the pride of life in them , 1 john 2. 15 , 16. they cannot honour , esteem , or count all men precious , till that image of christ , which standeth in humility , be formed in them . 3. the apostle paul , 1 cor. 10. 32 , 33. does not only teach the brotherhood , that they must shew all meekness to all men , and give no offence to jew nor gentile ; but puts himself ( as becomes all true ministers of christ ) for a patern to the flock . tho ( saith he ) i be free from all men , yet i have made my self servant unto all , that i might gain the more . — i am made all things to all men , that i might by all means save some . 1 cor. 9. 19 , 20 , 21 , 22 , 23. how precious did he count the jewish nation ! ( tho they generally hated him ) he could be content to be undone himself , rather than they should be lost . rom. 10. 1. and no less concern'd for the poor gentiles , that they also might be happy . rom. 15. 16. and hitherto did tend the scope of all his labours , to warn , teach , and to present every man perfect in christ jesus . col. 1. 28. 4. and forasmuch as the tongue is the ordinary witness of the spirit of pride , and that whereby all men are incident to dishonour one another , he strictly obligeth all christians to let their speech be always with grace , seasoned with salt , that they may administer grace to them that hear them . col. 4. 6. and he that will obey our text , to honour all men , must remember that he speak evil of no man , ( an impiety which god knows even reigns amongst christians . ) the tongue is an unruly member , a world of iniquity . and hence the apostle james is very bold , telling us , our religion is vain , if we bridle not that member . jam. 3. 9 , 10 , 11 , 12 , 13. how can that tongue be fit to bless god , to profess the christian religion , which is exercised in cursing , speaking evil , or wishing ill to any man ? my brethren , these things ought not to be . doth a fountain give sweet water and bitter at the same place ? this is not to be found in nature , nor to be expected in grace . christians must be known to all men by their fruits of righteousness , meekness , goodness , and faith ; otherwise men shall never be moved to glorify god in their behalf . 5. that christian who will honour all men , must love all men ; without this , he cannot esteem them , nor count them precious . whom we love not , we have no delight to honour . it is in a manner peculiar to the christian doctrine , that men should love their enemies , pray for them that persecute them and despitefully use them . let us therefore pay this debt , to honour all men in love. he that will do this , must bear mankind upon his heart in prayer and supplication . 1 tim. 2. 1. this is a lesson for christians , as such , they must love their neighbours as themselves , and all men are their neighbours . the royal law obliges them to it ; jam. 2. 8. if ye fulfill the royal law according to the scriptures , thou shalt love thy neighbour as thy self , ye do well ; but if ye have respect to persons , ( that is , love one , and hate another ) ye commit sin , and are convinced of the law as transgressors . were christians filled more with this fruit of the spirit , we should see an end of these animosities , opprobrious and abusive epithets , or brands of reproach and infamy , which are daily cast upon men , and too frequently found among christian men. it is to be lamented , that men who are precious in the esteem of god , should not be esteemed so by one another . but honour all men , says our text ; and the arguments to enforce the duty are many , of which , some we will urge in this place , and the first shall be this : first ; they are men as well as our selves , our equals by creation , the workmanship of the hands of the same god ; and therefore are we bound to honour all men , as men ; nor can we slight , despise , or dishonour them , but we dishonour our selves : for they are flesh of our flesh , and god hath made of one blood all nations of men , to dwell upon the face of the earth ; and he is the god of the spirits of all flesh . and thus we have all one father ; as one god hath created us , we are all his off-spring : not as some prophanely have said , that man is no more god's off-spring than an hog ; for he did not consult the creation of any thing , as he did the creation of man , gen. 2. nor did he breath into the nostrils of hogs , the same spirit of life and wisdom which he breathed into man. david admires the goodness of god in the degnified state of man , psal . 8. 4 , 5. and let us beware of base thoughts concerning man , lest we value him no more than the beasts of the field , and so dishonour him , whom god created in great honour , and to this day ( notwithstanding his fall ) hath set him over the works of his hands . all men are our brethren , let us honour them as such ; for what brotherhood soever we attain , yet our humane fraternity is antecedent , and not made void by any post-fraternity , which is good , but rather more indeared . this was seen in st. paul , the nearer his relation was to god upon the account of christianity , the more was his love , and the greater his sorrow for his brethren according to the flesh , rom. 9. 2. let not christians think , that their relation , nor obligation of nature to mankind , is destroyed or made less , by their being christians ; such a vain conceit will alienate us from our own flesh , and make us quite pervert the text , which puts us in mind that our religion does strongly engage us to honour them all . it was a vertue in the philosopher , who would not be accounted of this or that nation , tribe , or city , but entitled himself a citizen of the whole world ; meaning , he had an equal respect for mankind ; and if his relation might be an honour , he would be related to them all , that he might honour them all . secondly ; christains must honour all men , because god himself hath honoured them all , setting his love upon them , and manifesting it to them , and that divers ways : as , 1. in the common acts of his providence , of which we have an excellent account in the 107th psalm , to which i refer you . it is he that giveth them fruitful seasons , filling their hearts with joy and gladness ; he gives them life and breath , and all things . hence they ( even all nations ) are called his people , and the sheep of his pasture , psal . 100. 1 , 2. and upon this very ground are required to pay their debt of thankfulness unto him . 2. god has greatly honoured mankind in the gracious act of redemption ; i say , in this he has greatly esteemed all men , and counted them very precious . that god hath done this for all men , nothing can be more plain than these testimonies : there is one god , and one mediator between god and man , who gave himself a ransom for all . 1 tim. 2. 6. we see jesus made a little lower than the angels , for the suffering of death . — that he by the grace of god should taste death for every man. heb. 2. 9. for all have sinned , and come short of the glory of god , being justified freely by his grace , through the redemption which is in christ jesus . rom. 3. 23 , 24. he is a propitiation for our sins , and not for ours only , but also for the sins of the whole world. surely he that against the light of these plain testimonies , can or will think that god neglected the greatest part , or any part of mankind , in the most important business of redemption , must needs have a very low esteem and dishonourable thoughts of that part of mankind , cannot value them much above the fallen angels or devils , for whom no ransom was given ; and consequently they cannot honour all men. the devils are but sinners , shut up to the judgment of eternal fire , without means of recovery ; and these men , that narrow up the redemption of man to the elect only , shut up the remainder of men in that condemnation which is inevitable . and what honour can belong to such ? how should we count them precious , if indeed god hated them from all eternity ? it is not saying , that we know them not by name , and therefore ought to honour all men , that will salve the business : for the truth is , if we heartily honour all men , we must be sure that god would have us do so ; and of this we cannot be sure , if we think god made them only to damn them : for if the esteem or honour which we give to all men , proceed not from sincere love to them , and desire of their happiness , it is but hypocrisy , no true honour ; for the honour which we owe to all men , is not founded upon any thing wherein they are dignified above us , but upon those blessings or favours from god , which are common to us all , and wherein he has made no difference between one and another . and therefore if we truly esteem , love , and wish all men well in the case of their salvation , me must believe that god does so too , or else we cannot do it heartily . augustine's speech here is worthy of remembrance ; o vehement love ! that god for man's cause can vouchsafe to become man ! who can hate man , whose nature and likeness he beholds in the humanity of god ? surely , if god has not loved all men in christ , we have no cause to count them precious , because we see them not favoured in the humanity of god. 3. that our god counts all men precious , may be seen in the order given , that the word of peace or reconciliation may be preached to all men , or , to every creature ; to be made known to all nations for the obedience of faith. mat. 28. 19. rom. 16. 26. surely this message , with the messenger and messengers that brought it to all men , does stupendously evidence , how precious god accounts all men. he may justly demand , what could have been done to evidence my love to man , and the precious esteem i have of him , which i have not done . has he not sent his apostles , whose words have gone to the uttermost parts of the earth ? rom. 10. yea , he hath sent his son , whom he hath made heir of all things ; yea , he hath sent thus to those that would not accept these tokens of love , estimation , or honour . john 1. 11. mat. 21. 38. surely it is an act of honour towards the party visited , when the king comes to visit the beggar , yea , the traytor . whence is this to me , said elizabeth , that the mother of my lord should come to me ? and whence is this to man , or what honour hath god conferred upon man , that our lord himself should come to man , to redeem him by the death of the cross , and to make all men see what is the fellowship of this mysterious piece of godliness , ( which is god manifest in the flesh , &c. ) by the light of the gospel ? thirdly ; christians must honour all men , because this is one effectual way to recommend the way of christianity , or the truth which we profess , to the acceptance of all men. and hitherto may be referred these and the like rules ; walk in wisdom towards them that are without . if you salute your brethren only , what do you more than others ? the servant of the lord must not strive , but be gentle towards all men. render to no man evil for evil , but overcome evil with good. shewing all meekness to all men. giving a reason of the hope that is in you , with meekness and fear . that christian that shall walk towards all men according to these rules , shall certainly honour all men , and greatly recommend the truth to them all ; for thus shall he himself become an epistle of christ , read and known of all men. 1. cor. 3. 2. i shall conclude this first doctrine with a solemn protestation against all such as would set up their religion by violence , blood , and treachery , by what name soever distinguished ; for if this be their scope , they have not known christ , nor the divine power of christianity . cain leads the van to this unreasonable troop , who never did nor can honour all men , till they be delivered from this principle : no , they desire to kill , that they only might be honoured . by this unchristian sort of christians , what unspeakable butcheries have been committed ! hundreds of thousands in a neighbouring nation , in this age , cruelly destroyed . what hangings , burnings , and tormentings all europe over ! and this pretendedly to advance holy church ! as if our saviour's house must be built with blood , when yet he plainly tells us , he came not to kill men , but to save them , and sharply rebukes his disciples , when such a spirit appeared in them . and have we not seen a refined generation , ( as they would be thought ) peeping forth , with the name of blood , or the smiting principle , written on their forehead , with direction to their proselites to pray , that god would destroy all oppressior and oppressors from off the face of the earth ? lord ! what is this ? the greatest part of mankind peradventure are oppressors in one thing or other ; and must a christian pray for their destruction , or for their conversion ? sure the latter is the duty of all christians . 1 tim. 2. 1 , 2. they cannot desire such a woful day , but that mercy may be extended , knowing that themselves were sometimes foolish , disobedient , living in malice , hateful , and hating one another . tit. 3. but alas ! do not these men pray for their own destruction ? who sees not that such a principle is pregnant with oppression ? o let all christians beware of it . and let us pray for them that hate us , persecute us , and speak all manner of evil against us falsly , for his names sake , who hath called us not only to believe , but also to suffer for his sake . thus leaving all men of bloody , violent , and treacherous principles , to consider what spirit they are of ; how unlike our lord christ ; how different from the primitive christians ; how contrary to humanity it self , which teaches all to do to others ( not as they do ) but as we would they should do to us : we shall proceed to the next point of doctrine , grounded upon the second direction in the text , love the brotherhood . doct. ii. brotherly fellowship , love and vnity is carefully to be endeavoured and maintained by all christians . this brotherhood being not natural , but spiritual and mystical , admits of a twofold consideration : 1. in the largest sence the word ( and use of it in scripture ) will bear . 2. in a more strict and special sence . in the first , we must comprehend all that own the holy scriptures for the rule of faith , believing in the only true god , the father , son , and holy-ghost , ( for these three are one ) ; that christ died for our sins , and rose again for our justification ; that live soberly , according to the general rules of christianity , tho they may be diversly persuaded in the methods of christian worship . or i could be content , ( if the state of christianity would bear it in these days ) to express my self in this case in the words of st. paul , 1 cor. 1. 2. all that in every place call upon the name of our lord jesus christ ; among whom he found diversities of opinions , as well as disorders in practice of ordinances . not that he allows either , but labours to reform both , yet so as he would preserve amity among them as they were brethren , tho some of them were carnal , 1 cor. 3. others allowing themselves a very dangerous liberty in religious matters , even to eat things sacrificed to idols ; some doubting of the resurrection , others very loose in their devotion at the lord's table ; they were some tumultuous , others otherwise vicious , 2 cor. 13. now whether the apostle , in his exhortations to unity , intends , that notwithstanding these errors they should hold ample communion with the erroneous ; or whether , upon adhering to reproof by him given , and their obeying the epistles which he sent to them , he obliges them to maintain and uphold their communion , is the business to be considered . the first it is not like to be , for then few errors , either in doctrine or life , could break this brotherly fellowship among christians . and then to what purpose are these rules given ? mark them which cause divisions and offences , contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned , and avoid them . rom. 16. 17. withdraw your selves from every brother which walks disorderly , &c. 2 thess . 3. 6. surely all that can be required , as to unity with these christians , is a brotherly compassion , to encourage what we can the truth they hold , or the good they do ; to hold with them in the common cause of christianity , against the common enemy of it . i conceive the latter to be the only safe way , viz. that notwithstanding their great carnality , weakness of judgment , or frowardness in their erroneous opinions , &c. if now they would receive the counsel of the lord's messenger , or which the lord by his messenger had sent unto them , that then the brotherhood once found among them should still continue , tho they had too evidently forfeited their privileges . thus to take the apostle's meaning , is to make him harmonize with himself . 2 thess . 3. 14. if any man obey not our word by this epistle , note that man , and have no company with him , that he may be ashamed ; yet count him not an enemy , but admonish him as a brother . but to take the apostle in the first sence , would make him irreconcileable to or with himself . so then , paul did not advise the faithful at corinth , to hold ample communion with those of ill life , and erroneous principles in the necessary parts of religion , such as the resurrection , and separation from idolatry doubtless are ; for he that denies the first , denies christ to be risen , makes the apostles false witnesses , and the faith of christians vain . 1 cor. 15. 1 , 2 , 3. and the second makes men uncapable to serve god : ye cannot drink the cup of the lord , and the cup of idols ( or devils . ) 1 cor. 1. 10. let us then consider the second , or more strict sence of the word , brotherhood , in our text. and here we must take it , as it pertains to truly constituted and well-governed societies of christians : for undoubtedly god intended to have the christian religion stated and maintained in all nations , according to the pristine simplicity of the gospel , without the mixtures of legal ceremonies , or humane innovations : for when jesus gave commission to his apostles , to teach all nations , baptizing them ; and then , to teach them to observe all things whatsoever he commanded them . mat. 28. 19 , 20. and gave being to this order , to continue to the end of the world , it must needs be highly rational on the part of all such , as do piously stand to this form of doctrine , as explicated and delivered to the churches , rom. 6. 17. heb. 6. 1 , 2. and consequently it must needs be very pleasing to god , and commendable in the church , that his institutes be kept with the greatest exactness , as they were delivered at first , 1 cor. 11. 2. for if once variations in either the doctrinal or practical parts of the christian religion be admitted , there can be no certain duration of any truth . a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump , gal. 5. 7. and this the apostle speaks too , with relation to the imposition of some legal rites , which once had a divine original and use in the church of god , and yet now could not consist with obedience to the truth . gal. 5. 7. ye did run well , who did hinder you , that you should not obey the truth ? hence saint paul would not give place to st. peter himself , ( when too much symbolizing with legal ceremonies , gal. 2. ) that so the truth of the gospel might continue in the churches of galatia ; plainly shewing , that as light and darkness cannot dwell together , so the gospel is exclusive of legal ceremonies and humane innovations . and seeing all must grant , there has been a very great departure from the truth of the gospel , both in doctrine and practice , there cannot be a better method ( i suppose ) thought on , to amend what is amiss in the christian world , ( and thereby to restore true brotherly fellowship ) than that used by our lord , mat. 19. 8. to reform a corruption among the jews , and such an error too as had a shew of scripture-authority for it , ( i mean the case of divorce ) yet our saviour suppresseth that custom , by referring to the primitive institution of marriage ; from the beginning it was not so . and upon this text , how well does our brethren ( i mean the sober and pious in the church of england ) defend themselves against popish innovations , both in opinion and practice ? one of them speaks thus : as touching each of these errors , we can say with our saviour , in this present correption of the pharisees , that from the beginning it was not so ; and we care not whence they come , unless they come from the beginning . this hath ever been ( saith he ) the rule , the warrantable rule to reform a church . when esdras was intent on building the temple , he sent not to ephesus , much less to rome ; he did not enquire into the rituals of numa pompilius ; but had recourse for a temple , to that of solomon ; and for a rite , to that of moses . indeed for things meerly indifferent , ( as he observes ) there must be preserved a liberty in all churches to consult and do for the best . i dare not say as he , to make constitutions ; ( for that 's a great word ) but to manage her affairs with decency , order , and charity . but to come more directly to our doctrine , which is , brotherly fellowship ; love and vnity is carefully to be endeavoured and maintained by all christians . certain it is that our love , as christians , may go much further than our actual communion in all things christian , may do ; and yet this love it self is a kind of fellowship . the angels have fellowship with us , and acknowledg themselves our fellow servants , rev. 19. 10. and yet they do not partake with us in all our acts of religion , but only by approbation and corroboration , in things which are well done . now the best or most orderly sort of christians cannot conceive a greater disproportion between their churches , and the churches of the most erring ( if but well-meaning ) societies that conscientiously profess love and obedience to christ : and even hence , we are obliged to hold as much brotherly fellowship with them , as we can , especially that of love and brotherly compassion . for when we consider , that even some of all sorts of christians will rather dye , than basely deny their lord and master , we cannot but have fellowship with such in our spirits , whilst it is the same ( and not a feigned christ ) to whom they shew their utmost testimony of love. and this consideration alone , may suffice to take away that imbitteredness , which is too often found among christians dissenting one from another : let their appellations be what they will , so that they believe in the true christ , and live well , being also faithful to what they know . and tho they be never so angry with me for opposing them in their traditions , or erring notions otherwise , yet i must have a brotherly tenderness towards them all for the truths sake which dwelleth in them . but now , for ample or full communion , i see not how that can be attained and maintained , but where there is antecedent to it , an union both in doctrine and practice , in things necessary to the true constitution and government of the church of christ . and seeing also our differences about these things are not small , or trivial ; it cannot ( i think ) be better ordered , than that a friendly distinction , and brotherly forbearance be permitted as to ample communion ; for that men cannot comfortably nor peaceably join together till they be agreed in these things . i see not that the difference betwixt paul and barnabas was so great ( as to the thing about which they differed ) as the things about which christians differ in these days ; and yet its certain their contention being great ( for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signifies provoking , gauling , and imbittered speeches , and minds , say the learned ) it is certain they could not transact their affairs in the gospel together , but apart . and this was written perhaps to shew , that a competent unity in judgment must precede our actual communion , and till that be attained among us , there is a necessity ( in regard , partly of human frailty , and partly in regard of some precious truths ) to forbear one another , without destroying the truth to which we have attained respectively . and this is the greatest love we can extend to one another , under these difficult circumstances . 1. to pity and heartily to pray one for another ; for the servant of the lord must not strive but be gentle towards all men , in meekness instructing those that oppose themselves . 2. there must be all patience exercised , and compassion shewed to the ignorant , and those that are out of the way , especially where the scruple is tender and conscientious . and in the mean time , the faithful minister of god must hold fast the form of sound words , he must teach the same doctrine which was committed to his trust by the apostles . he must warn others that they teach no other doctrine . he must not give place to jewish , or other fables . and the church must so walk in christ , as they first received him , rooted in the foundation-principles , established and built up in him : not carried about with every wind of doctrine , but speaking the truth in love , must endeavour to grow up into christ in all things . in a word , it is the duty of this brotherhood to stick close to the whole councel of god , and not to partake with other mens sins , or errors in life or religion ; which cannot be done , where contrarieties in doctrine and practice about things necessary to the true state and government of the church of christ , are allowed in the same fellowship or community . love the brotherhood . this fraternity are in a special manner to love one another . 1. because god himself hath loved them with a special kind of love : and if god so loved us , we ought also to love one another , 1 john 3. it is happy when the love of christians is founded upon this bottom , viz. the manifestation of god's love to them , and not upon any thing of human excellency ; for this is to have mens persons in admiration , and not to admire this , behold what manner of love the father hath bestowed upon us ! 2. because this is the sweetest manifestation , that we are the children of god ; for in this is manifest the children of god , 1 john 3. 10. namely , that they love their brethren : and every one that loveth , is born of god. and our saviour makes it the true character of christianity : by this shall all men know that ye are my disciples , if ye love one another , joh. 13. 35. 3. because this is the uniting grace among christians , this makes their society sweet , their fellowship desirable , it s a fellowship of love , phil. 2. 1. this makes them like david and jonathan , they are bound in one girdle , and their love was wonderful . 4. because this makes the sufferings of christians easy ; when those that suffer love them , in defence of whose faith they do suffer ; and see themselves beloved of their brethren , even then when all men seem to hate them . this made paul himself rejoice in his sufferings , phil. 4. 10 , 14. i rejoiced in the lord greatly , that now at the last your care of me hath flourished again , — ye have well done that ye have communicated with me in my affliction . let us touch the things briefly , which may be sure evidences of this brotherly love. 1. if then we love the brotherhood , we are much concern'd about them in our thoughts . for what is the object of a man's love , is the subject of his meditation . all true lovers know this by experience ; and let the love of the brotherhood exceed our love in other cases . an instance of this love we have in st. paul , col. 2. 1 , 2. for i would that ye knew what great conflict i have for you , and for them of laodicea , and for as many as have not seen my face in the flesh : that their hearts might be comforted , being knit together in love , &c. 2. if we love our brethren , we bear them much upon our heart in our prayers ; we cannot forget them if we rightly love them . paul made mention of him in every prayer of his whom he dearly loved , 2 tim. 1. 3. let all christian brethren do so too , for we cannot do less for any of them , or for many of them we can do no more . 3. if we love the brotherhood , we will esteem them highly , according to the vertues which we see in them , 2 john v. 1 , 2 , 3. and whom we love we will commend , and advance as much as we can , because it 's the native property of love to do so ; as appears in the interchanges of love in the song of solomon , between christ and his church : and is the way too , to encrease love , as all experience shews . 4. if we love our brethren , we will to our best defend their reputation against those that injure them . thus paul vindicated not himself only , but those faithful ministers which were with him , when some reported of them that they walked after the flesh , and said , let us do evil that good may come ; whose damnation , for such vile reproaches against the servants of christ , he avers to be just . 5. if we love the brotherhood , we will to our power relieve their necessities . for he that hath this worlds good , and sees his brother want , and shutteth up the bowels of his compassion , how dwells the love of god in him ? and saith another apostle , if a brother or sister be destitute of daily food , and ye say , be ye filled , and give them not those things that are necessary , what doth it profit ? wherefore let love be without dissimulation . let it be fervent . for to this end were our souls purified in obeying the truth through the spirit , even unto unfeigned love of the brethren , 1 pet. 1. 22. 6. the last evidence . if we love the brotherhood , we will seek and preserve as much as we can , the peace of the whole , and the prosperity of every part . pray for the peace of jerusalem ( saith david ) they shall prosper that love thee ; for my brethren and companions sake i will now say , peace be within thy walls , and prosperity within thy palaces . how greatly does the true son of david , our lord jesus , pray for this blessing upon the whole church , that they all may be one , as he and his father are one ? and what christian will not tremble to think of doing any thing against the tenour of his blessed prayer ? i will conclude this point with a solemn protestation against those evils which chiefly hinder the love of the brotherhood ; and the first is pride . 1. only through pride cometh contention ( saith the spirit ) ; when men are admirers of themselves , proud , boasters ; they soon become despisers of those that are good , and enemies to the love of the brotherhood . diotrephes being got to this point , presently makes havock of the church , by casting the brethren out of the church that shewed their brotherly love to the travelling ministers . and why ? because he loved to have the preheminence , insomuch as he spared not to undervalue the apostle himself . aproud professor cannot love the brotherhood . 2. as all proud men are enemies to brotherly love ; so most of all such as take themselves to be infallible about things most disputable , being vainly confident that god is opposed when their impositions are not obeyed . these men commonly drive furiously , rend and tear , if their mandates meet with dislike or non-reception . these men will ever stand strenuously upon niceties , and make things which are doubtful , and meerly indifferent , to become necessary . 3. those who make gain their godliness , are great enemies to brotherly love , these are called greedy dogs by the prophet , greedy wolves by the apostle ; these seek their own , not the things of christ . they are enemies to him ; their god is their belly , they mind earthly things ; they change with every wind for preferment . they are lovers of their own selves . they teach things which they ought not , for filthy lucres sake . they love not the brotherhood , but their money . thus much to the second point . we come now to the third part of our text. fear god. hence the doctrine has been propounded thus . doct. iii. christians must have an awful fear of god before their eyes , that in matters of religion they may serve him only , and not provoke him by sinful courses , nor by the fear of man. to come rightly to the performance of this duty , we must endeavour to have a right knowledg or belief of this god whom we are to fear , for this our saviour makes to be the weighty part of our religion , faith , and the fear of god. now in this faith , which anteceeds the fear , worship , and service of god , we must consider the essence and attributes of god. in the first , he is infinitely beyond the reach of our knowledg , or finding out unto perfection . job 4. 24. it is but a small portion that we know ( or can know ) of him in this world. faith therefore satisfies it self , with knowing that god is : or , that there is one god. that he is a spirit eternal , pure , omnipotent , immutable , invisible , merciful , faithful , holy , just and good ; and that he is infinitely and perfectly so , and whatsoever else may be said to represent him great and glorious ; great in his sovereignty and dominion , glorious in his doings towards the children of men. in a word , faith apprehends or believes this god to be , whatsoever his word declares him to be , which together with his works of creation and providence are the intelligencers to mortals , his good spirit also helping and illuminating all that heartily seek after him . howbeit this faith is not of the same magnitude in all that have it , but 't is of the same nature , — to all that have obtained like precious faith with us , through the righteousness of god , and our saviour jesus christ , 2 pet. 1. 1. to fear god , is indeed a duty incumbent upon all men , and not upon christians only . and for the better performance of this great duty , it is good to know the cause , why mankind of all other creatures is bound to fear god ; i say , mankind only , of all sublunary creatures : for from other creatures god expects not this , nor do they pay it to him , not having capacity , and so no necessity on them to do it . but they are subjugated to the fear of man , who is placed over them as supream , psal . 86. 7 , 8. gen. 9. 2. indeed i do not find that this fear and dread of man , was upon the creatures below him , till after the earth was accursed . it is true a dominion was given man over them in his innocent estate , gen. 1. 28. but that he should have ruled them with rigour , as now , i find not , but do conceive that the terrour of man to the brute creatures , and their disobedience to him , are effects of the curse ; and its certain the curse was the effect of sin. but in these things let us not be too curious . now whether in case man had not sinned , he should have been obliged to fear god as now , or whether he should have properly feared god at all , may be enquired here ? to which it may be answered , that seeing god had endued man with excellent reason and judgment , and yet put him in a mutable state , and gave him notice that his state was such , when he gave him a law with a penalty upon the breach of it . in the breach of which he should surely dye , gen. 2. 17. it follows that man was even then bound to fear , and to stand in awe of his majesty from the beginning before sin was upon him . so that sin is not the original cause of the fear of god , but his bounty towards man , and absolute sovereignty over him , are the grounds of it . and hence we may learn , how just , how necessary it is for us who are of the fall'n race of adam , not only for that we are under these original obligations , and for that the covenant which we are under as christians , tho a covenant of grace , yet is truly conditional ( whatever some murmur to the contrary ) to fear the god of heaven , and to stand in awe of his majesty . behold therefore the goodness and severity of god! on them that fell , severity ; but towards thee goodness , if thou continue in his goodness : otherwise thou also shall be cut off . rom. 11. 22. heb. 4. 1. but it is furthermore our duty , for that we are more subject to err than adam was , for all grant he had free-will , and sufficiency of ability to stand had he used it . but tho some of us do hold we have a liberty of will , yet we must all confess our power to be very small , without intervening grace , either to resist temptations , or to do acts of righteousness . not that we are sufficient to think any thing as of our selves , but our sufficiency is of god , 2 cor. 3. 5. there is a distinction of fear towards god much spoken of , to wit , a servile fear , and a filial fear . the first they would exclude from a christian . but if by servile fear be intended no more than to fear god , as a good servant is to fear his master , i can see no reason to exclude it : if i be a master , where is my fear ? saith the lord. mal. 1. 16. it seems god's servants must fear him . but perhaps the meaning of the distinction is this : by filial fear is meant an holy dread , lest we do any thing that is evil , or leave undone the thing that is good ; and by servile fear , is meant a fear of punishment only . if this be it , i shall say little to it , believing , whoever makes this distinction , would have all men , and specially christians , to fear god so as to depart from all evil , and to do good , lest judgment be the portion of their cup from the lord. fear god ; that is , stand in awe of his majesty , worship and serve him , and him only . 1 sam. 12. 14. only fear the lord , and serve him with all your heart . psal . 45. 11. he is thy lord , and worship thou him . thou shalt worship the lord thy god , and him only shalt thou serve . mat. 4. 10. this is god's right , we must only pay it to him . when peter was put upon this strait , whether to please or fear men , when his service to god was the matter in question , his speech was very frank and resolute , acts 4. 19. whether it be right in the sight of god , to hearken unto men more than unto god , judg ye . this then must ever become good christians in matters of religion , to stick close to that which is right in the sight of god , however it may be countermanded by man. the condescensions of holy paul were so wisely attempered , as even then when he was made all things to all men , and paying his debt of love to the wise and unwise , so as to be without law to them that were without law , and under the law to them that were under the law ; yet he was not without law to god , but under the law to christ ; he would not sin to please any , nor do evil that good might come : for the fear of the lord is clean , the beginning of wisdom , and that which must keep us company all our days ; else we lie open to the fiery darts of satan , which will both hit and hurt , where the fear of the lord is absent . therefore blessed is the man that feareth always . this is that grace which held joseph back from uncleanness , nehemiah from self-endedness in god's service , when others made it burthensom : this did not i , saith he , because of the fear of the lord. work out your own salvation with fear and trembling , saith the apostle . i trembled in my self , that i might rest in the day of trouble , saith the prophet . i exceedingly fear and quake , said moses . i am so troubled i cannot speak , said david . and shall we not exceedingly fear , and stand in awe of that majesty , which made these pillars in the church to tremble ? beware of a stupid and careless spirit , for that will soon prove a revolting spirit . jer. 5. 22 , 23. david makes that awful fear of god an express duty to all ; psal . 76. 7. thou , even thou art to be feared ; and who may stand in thy presence , when once thou art angry ? without a godly fear no service to god is acceptable . heb. 12. and he is therefore greatly to be feared in the assembly of the saints . thus much in general . we shall now endeavour to describe the man that walks in the fear of god , in a few particulars . and , 1. he that truly fears god , worships and serves him , must be delivered from the fear of man. when david is considering how to fear or serve god aright , psal . 119. 45. he tells us , he will walk at liberty ; he will have his heart free from that which hinders due obedience to god. and as to matters of religion , christians are christ's freemen . and therefore our saviour ( who was the most faithful to caesar that ever man was ) in this case absolutely prohibits the fear of man ; fear not him that can kill the body . and it is certain , the fear of man brings a snare , as appears in the case of the pharisees : they could not confess christ , tho they believed in him , for they feared to be put out of their synagogues ; they loved the praise of men more than the praise of god. he that thus fears man , cannot fear god. let us hear the apostle paul , he is plain ; do i now persuade men , or god ? ( that is , do i preach the doctrine of god or man ? ) if i yet pleased men , i should not be the servant of christ . we see here the difference between a faithful christian and minister of christ , and those that serve the times : the latter always preach something that is of man , lest they should suffer persecution for the cross of christ ; the former fears neither men nor angels , so as to give consent to another gospel , or any thing which perverts the gospel of christ . gal. 1. 4 to 11. 2. he that truly fears god , will give to god the things which are god's . this rule , of all others , should be observed by christians , because it proceeds from christ himself , upon such a special occasion , mat. 22. 21. as wherein the right of kings , and god's right over men are enquired into , and the case determined by the lord christ , to the silencing his captious adversaries . caesar's right must be given , and god's right must not be with-held . earthly things , or our obedience in civil cases , is here stated upon caesar ; there is therefore a necessity , that obedience in religious cases be due to god , or else he has nothing peculiar in or over us . sith therefore god almighty has reserved all religious obedience to himself , and that we must every man give an account of himself unto god , 2 cor. 5. let all that fear god , give to him in religious performances , the things which have his image and superscription upon them , lest he reject both the offering , and the offerer , with , who hath required this at your hands ? did not god provide by his express law , that his sacrifices should not be changed at man's will , a good for a bad , nor a bad for a good ? lev. 27. 10. does not isaiah cry out against them that presumed to change god's ordinances , as breakers of the everlasting covenant ? isa . 24. 5. it fared very ill with nadab and abihu , for offering that fire which god commanded not . levit. 10. 1 , &c. the corinthians were smote with sickness and death , for prophaning the lord's table with their own supper , 1 cor. 11. 22 , 30. david himself was afraid of god , when he altered the manner of carrying the ark of god , 1 chron. 13. and this instance made him afterwards give to god the things that were god's , namely , to serve him in due order , 1 chron. 15. let the use of all be , to provoke us to serve god with godly fear , to stand in awe of his word , to serve him with all possible exactness , according to the very rules therein contained , that we may have the commendation of good and faithful servants , as it was in the case of noah , gen. 6. 22. thus did noah , according to all that god commanded him , so did he . 3. he that truly fears god , will ever preserve a good conscience towards god. but this can never be , where the inner man is not pure , and the heart delighted with the service of god. of some we read , that they profess high , but their minds and consciences are defiled , tit. 1. 16. others that so walked before the lord , as to gain this reputation , that they did that which was right in the sight of the lord , but not with a perfect heart . 2 chr. 25. 2. now god is he that perfectly knows the heart , and searches the heart , and takes pleasure in uprightness ; and he knows , and will make all men know , that as the wilful nectlect of duties , i mean religious duties , are an evidence of an evil conscience ; so the keeping back part , or serving god deceitfully , or serving god under a colour , without conscience of the service , are the same , and shall , with the persons so worshipping him , be rejected , as those that do not fear god. for it shall come to pass in the day of the lord's sacrifice , that he will punish them that swear by the lord , and that swear by malcham ; and them that are turned back from the lord , and them that have not sought the lord , nor enquired after him . zeph. 1. 5 , 6. 4. he that feareth god , will not resist the power of princes ; yet will he do what god commands , tho all the princes in the world forbid him ; nor will he do what god forbids , tho all the princes in the world should command it . what our christian obligations to princes are , i hope to shew , in handling the next direction in our text. we are here only to shew , that no worldly power can make void what god commands , nor make that lawful which god's word forbids . the god of heaven forbids worshipping or bowing down to images or idols , exod. 20. nebuchadnezzar commands the contrary , dan. 3. 4 , 5. under pain of suffering the fiery furnace . now this was a mighty prince , to whom god had given a kingdom , and great glory ; yet shadrach and his companions would not do his command , but told him plainly , they would not serve his gods , nor worship the golden image which he had set up . dan. 3. 18. it has been the unhappiness of earthly gods , to countermand the commands of the god of heaven , without which there would have been but few martyrs : but the greatness of their multitude shews the certainty of this truth , that god's will must be obeyed , what troubles soever attend us from the princes of this world for so doing . indeed i find this doctrine owned by most . for the papists themselves , upon acts 4. 19. say thus : if any magistrate command against god , that is to say , forbid catholick christian men to preach , or serve god , this same must be their answer , ( meaning that answer which peter gave , &c. ) tho they be whipped or killed for their labour . and dr. fulk allows the note , but yet would not have the papists to have any benefit by it , ( so partial are men , when uppermost . ) we see then , by consent of christians generally , the voice of god must be obeyed in things religious , tho the princes of the earth say nay . and to this agrees the holy psalmist , psal . 119. 23. princes sate and spake against me ; that is , they sat on the throne , and dereed things against him : but thy servant did meditate in thy statutes . he would not depart from the ways of god , tho he was persecuted . psal . 119. 161. princes perfecuted me without a cause , but my heart standeth in awe of thy word . but here it may be fit to obviate an objection . it will be said , tho it is true , that all that fear god , are bound thus to obey god , and not man , in matters of religion , and to suffer patiently , rather than to sin ; yet whether in things indifferent , which are neither commanded nor forbidden ; if princes here make ufe of their authority , christians are not bound to obey actively ? as for example , about the place of worship , &c. to this it may be answered ; seeing god has forbidden no place , if that were all the business , he were a mad man that would not actually obey ; and consequently he is bound to obey authority in every case that is like it ; as thus : it is a duty for a nation , in a time of common calamity , to humble themselves by fasting and prayer ; and doubtless 't is best this be done at the same time , and none so fit to order this as the magistrate : if therefore authority command the tenth , twentieth , or thirtieth day of such a month , for such a service , i doubt not but he should be guilty of sin , that should in this refuse such time , meerly because it is appointed by the magistrate's authority . and if there be an hundred cases of this kind , the same answer must be given in them all , for ought i see ; or else under pretence of fearing god , we shall dishonour the king , which is a sin of an high nature . tho christians be subjects to princes , yet princes are subjects to god , and in the sphere where god has set them , can do nothing more pleasing to him , than to promote the interest of religion , by discountenancing prophaneness and irreligion , and by giving encouragement to the lovers of it . but then as they are subjects to christ , they are fellow-servants with their subjects , ( yea , the angels think not themselves too high to be called so , rev. 19. 10. ) and therefore must with their subjects be obedient to one lawgiver , even jesus , and not assume power to make laws for the consciences of men in religion , nor to force them to go beyond their knowledg and faith in things of that kind , seeing what is not of faith is sin , and we must every one give an account of himself unto god. 5. the last particular i shall insist upon , as necessary to the true fear of god , is to avoid covetousness and worldly-mindedness . covetousness is said to be idolatry . and he that is a covetous person , makes little further use of religion , than to be a cloak for his iniquity ; he fears not god , he serves not the lord christ , but his own belly ; for this he preaches , for this he prays , and without this he will do neither . these are the men that make merchandize of the word of god , supposing ( as the apostle saith ) that gain is godliness . i meet with a notable passage in our english chronicles ; in the sixth century , 't is said , the clergy of britain set all their mind to serve god , and not the world , the heart , and not the belly : wherefore then were they had in great reverence and honour . but as they encreased in earthly treasure , so they decreased in heavenly treasure . fab. chron. 5 part . cap. 134. let all that fear god , beware of this evil disease , especially such as are ministers of christ . no man can serve two masters ; ye cannot serve god and mammon , saith our saviour , mat. 6. 24. thus much of the fear of god ; let us now consider the debt which we owe to our king. honour the king. altho by the order of our text , we are to speak of this weighty subject in the last place , yet it is not the least part of our duty : for as the ancient christians were wont to speak , so it remains an eternal truth , that as god is above the emperor , so none other is above the emperor but god. and consequently our duty , next to almighty god , is to our prince ; as we see here in our text , the honour of the king is provided for , next to the fear of god. we have already shewed , in the opening of the words , that the king here meant , or immediately spoken of , was an heathen king , and a great idolater in his religion ; and yet the holy-ghost does here oblige all christians , even of the highest rank , to honour such kings , peter himself , and consequently all his successors not excepted ; for indeed he had learned this obedience of one higher than himself , even jesus christ , and therefore must needs recommend the same to all christians . and hence the doctrine is , doct. iv. all christians are bound by gospel-rules to be good subjects to princes , to honour their persons , and conscienciously to obey . their authority . 1. to evince this great truth , it may be needful to shew , that kingly power or government is of god. not in the sence ( prophanely objected by some writers ) wherein plagues , diseases , and punishments are of god ; for the apostle paul doth expresly contradict such an ungodly exposition , rom. 15. 1 , &c. wherein he avers , even of the same kingly power spoken of by peter , that it was ordained of god ; that the magistrate was god's minister to the christian man , ( as well as any other ) for good , to execute wrath upon him that does evil. which word , minister , refers evidently to him that bears the sword of justice , and not to the power only , which yet he affirms to be of god , and confirms it by this argument , for there is no power but of god ; the powers that be , are ordained of god. and this is the only comfortable ground of obedience to the higher powers , to be well satisfied in this , that whether it fall out our obedience shall be active or passive , yet therein we conform our selves to the will of god , or to his ordinance ; and he that shall resist the power , does resist the ordinance of god. 2. that kingly government is of god as clearly , if not more clearly than any other form of government , is very plain from the text it self , considered with the context , vers . 13 , 14. submit your selves to every ordinance of man for the lord's sake , whether it be to the king as supreme , or unto governours , as unto them that are sent by him , &c. where supremacy over all persons in things civil , is so clearly given to the king by god himself , even over governours , as well as the people governed , that it must in no wise be denied . 3. if it be objected , that tho the power magistratical be of god , yet the form or mode of it is of man , because ( according to the greek ) 1 pet. 2. 13. may be read thus , submit your selves to every humane creature . to this i say ; the words , humane creature , are better understood of the laws made by humane authority , than of the magistrates themselves : for as the most high god , and he only , can give being and power to a divine law , insomuch that no power on earth can create such a law ; so earthly gods , and none but they , can create and give power to an humane law ; and laws thus made , are rightly called humane creatures , or ordinances of men , ( as our english expresses it . ) and when laws are thus made , tho they should happen to be ill laws , ( as it sometimes happens to be so ) yet they must be obeyed , ( either actively or passively ) because the power magistratical must not be resisted ; only the error of an ill law must be refused by all faithful men , especially in matters of religion , as we have shewed before . 4. this great power which god hath given to kings and rulers of the earth , to make laws , is ( as i conceive ) the chief cause why they are called gods , psal . 82. 6. i have said ye are gods , and all of you are children of the most high : that is , because of that resemblance which they have to god himself , being decked with power and majesty , to make and execute laws ( in this lower world ) which concern the children of men as such . 5. and as to the form of kingly government ( for this is all that i can find in my text ) : let us hear what god himself saith . by me kings reign , and princes decree justice ; by me princes rule , and nobles , even all the judges of the earth . what can be said more in this case ? if any shall say , 't is not god , but wisdom that speaks these words , prov. 8. 15 , 16. i answer , it is folly that makes the objection , for this wisdom is the voice of god , because it is the wisdom of god. kings are called the lords anointed . and not only the kings of israel , but even heathen kings also . isa . 45. 1. thus saith the lord to his anointed , even to cirus . now cirus was king of persia , ezra . 1. 1. 6. if yet it be said , that government , but not the form of government , is of god , but of human choice , &c. i answer , i speak not of a government to be formed , and not yet in being ; but of one established : and therefore , i say , the distinction is dangerous . but how shall it be a power or government without its form ? does god make an ordinance or any thing else without form ? if so , what can you call it ? it is the form that gives every thing to be , or at least to be called what it is . it 's bad venturing to say , that god makes an ordinance , and leaves man to form it , as to the essentials of it . and seeing no nation can long endure , without government , nor that government subsist without form. it seems necessary that both be acknowledged to be of god ; and consequently , where the form of government is regal or kingly , it is of god , and as such to be had in honour . that god does by his providence order and permit men to transact , order , and settle the mode of government , in nations which yet are unsetled in that respect , does not prove that the form or settlement when made is not of god , or not to be esteemed so ; because in such an emergency , the voice of the people , together with god's providence , must herein be acknowledged the voice of god. for thus in an ordinary way is that saying true , by me kings reign , and princes decree justice . by me princes rule , and nobles , even all the judges of the earth . it was the most high god which gave nebuchadnezzar a kingdom , majesty , glory and honour , dan. 5. 18. who then may question his regal power to be of god ? it 's ill murmuring , worse disputing , worst of all to fight against god. surely , if nebuchadnezzar must have this honour given to him as king , even by daniel that servant of god , because by the almighty he was thus exalted , altho otherwise he was a sinful man , a great idolater ; it must needs resolve all doubts that may arise , about the warrantableness of kingly government , and all christians obedience to it , with respect to all kings under whom they live , whatsoever . if it be objected , that some may usurp kingly government , and some that have it may abuse it . i answer ; tho this be true , yet it is nothing to the purpose ; for this is incident to all other forms of government . and when god permits such things , it 's usually for the sins of the people , as it is written , for the transgressions of a land , many are the princes thereof , prov. 28. 2. he gave them a king in his wrath : but this was because israel had rejected god , and his prophet samuel . otherwise god had promised to give his people a king , numb . 23. 21. yea , the government of moses himself was after a sort a regal or kingly government , deut. 33. 4 , 5. if then it so fall out , that kings or other rulers do oppress their subjects , i know no remedy for the subject but prayers and tears , that god would turn their own hearts more to his fear , and the heart of their prince towards them ; ( for the hearts of kings are in his hands : ) and with patient suffering , and humble supplication , to seek for favour . for rebellion must by no means be admitted , for it is as the sin of witchcraft ; being against god , as well as against the king , because it is against the ordinance of god. and hence tertullian well said , the christian knows that the emperor is constituted of god. and saith the prophet , i have delivered all these countries into the hands of nebuchadnezzar : who then may take them out of his hand ? sure none but god , who sets up one , and puts down another , as pleases him . for he that gives can only rightfully take away , and he doth so when men abuse what he gives . mene , mene , takel vpharsin , god hath numbred thy kingdom , and finished it , — and given it to the medes and persians , dan. 5. 25 , 26. if it be objected from that passage , they have set up kings , and not by me ; that kingly government is of man , not of god. i answer ; this rather proves the contrary , for here a disorder only is reproved in the way of doing that , which they could not do rightly but by him , that is , god. they so set up a king , as they rejected god , that he should not reign over them , 1 sam. 8. 7. hence it was that samuel gave them that reproof and exhortation , 1 sam. 12. 20. ye have done all this wickedness , yet turn not aside from following the lord , but serve the lord with all your heart . but god did not deny them a king : no , but he had given them direction how to chuse them a king , deut. 17. 14 , 15 , 16. and most certain it is , that of all civil governments which god hath set up in the world , kingly government is the most frequent , and permanent , so far as the scripture gives any account of this matter : and indeed it holds the nearest resemblance to that government which god himself exercises over the world in general ; for he is king of kings , and his kingdom ruleth over all . let us then come more directly to the text , honour the king. and , 1. of the honour which we owe to his royal person . we must esteem it very highly , and behave our-selves towards him with that fear and reverence which belongs to him , as placed next unto god. my son , fear thou the lord and the king , prov. 24. 21. give unto caesar the things which are caesar's , and to god the things which are god's . so the text , fear god , honour the king. we see the king holdeth the next place of honour unto god. hence tertullian , personating the christians of his time , says , we honour the emperour as a man next unto god. and saith optatus , above the emperour there is none but god , who made the emperour . if we will honour the king's person , or esteem him highly , we must not only upon all sit occasions , give him ( with reverence ) his place and titles of honour ; but also defend his person with the hazard of our own , as those did who would not suffer king david to hazard himself , saying , thou art worth ten thousand of us . let us hate to think or speak evil or contemptuously of him whom god hath exalted , and set over us . we find a remarkable instance of true love and loyalty to a prince , 2 sam. 15. 19 , 20 , 21. here tho ittai was willed by the king , not to put himself in danger for him , yet he answers thus , as the lord liveth , and as my lord the king liveth , surely in what place my lord the king shall be , whether in death , or in life , even there also will thy servant be . this poor exiled stranger ( for such he was ) shall rise up in judgment against many native subjects , who have done quite contrary hereunto even in our days . 2. we must honour him in love. sincere love , and loyal affection , as he is king , can in no wise be wanting in a good subject : nor can we honour the king heartily , if we do not love him entirely . now he that truly loves his prince , has him much in his serious thoughts , especially when he prays to the god of heaven : he will not then forget him whom he truly loves , whom he honours in love. if he love him , he will pray for him ; perhaps that is all the good he can do his prince ; and in this a mean subject may serve his king , as much as any , so that his prayer be serious and godly . it is highly observable , how the duty of making prayer for all men , and particularly for kings and rulers , with supplication , intercession , and giving of thanks , is required of christians ; especially of those in the ministry : that by the ministers constant and devout performance of this duty in behalf of all that are in authority , the hearts of the people may be more endeared towards their prince , and themselves hereby instructed to perform their duty , and manifest their love to their governours in like manner , 1 tim. 2. 1 , 2. and to enforce the exhortation to this duty , the apostle tells us , that it is good and acceptable in the sight of god our saviour , vers . 3. 3. the next demonstration of honouring the king , shall be taken from the manner of our language , and the matter of our discourse when concerned to speak of him , or of his doings . in these we must hate the thoughts of scurrility , or reflecting expressions ; for the tongue is the index of the mind , and we are expresly forbidden to curse or speak evil of the king , even in our bed-chamber ; for these things are so odious , that providence will fight against such as do so , and the iniquity of such doings will return upon the offenders : for a bird in the air shall carry the news , and that which hath wings shall tell the tidings , eccles . 10. 20. are they not marked out in scripture for the worst sort of men , that are not afraid to speak evil of dignities ? more daring and presumptuous than angels , who are great in authority , and may lawfully do more than men , yet they dare not bring a railing accusation against the devil , who is the prince of darkness ; but they refer the wrong done to them unto god , who both can and will rebuke him . but why may not the good angels rebuke satan ? why they know ( as wicked as he is ) he could do nothing about the body of moses , nor any thing else , without license from the almighty : he must indeed be withstood in his temptations , but he must not be rail'd on it seems . and then what manner of men are they that will take liberty to rail on their princes , if they do not what they would have them ? nay , tho they should do evil , yet must they in no wise be evil spoken of . thou shalt not revile the gods , nor speak evil of the ruler of my people , exod. 22. 28. acts 23. 5. object . but have not the prophets reproved kings when they did evil ? i answer , yea ; god reproved them by his prophets frequently . and no doubt that men of god , such as have commission from him , may and ought to deal faithfully with kings and rulers , when they do that which is evil in the sight of the lord. but this is that which is intolerable , that the errors or infirmities of princes should be made the subject of mens discourse : surely they are rather to be lamented before the lord in secret . is it meet to say to a king , thou art wicked ? and to princes , ye are ungodly ? job 34. 18. the true sence of these interrogatives is , no. it is by no means thus to reflect upon a king. st. paul having spoken rashly , acts 23. 5. corrects and excuses himself , by saying , i wist not , brethren , that he was god's high priest : for it is written , thou shalt not speak evil of the ruler of my people . let christians beware of this evil disease which reigns in these days . let them remember , they are bound by gospel-rules to honour the king , next to god himself . thus much of the honour which we owe to the king's person . let us now consider , how we are obliged by gospel-rules to obey his authority . and here , 1. let the subject consider how much god has set him below his prince , for obedience seldom issues from a lofty mind . it 's not impossible for a subject , in conceit , to be a prince's mate , and then subjection is death to him . that passage concerning mephibosheth , the son of jonathan , 2 sam. 9. 8. was written for our learning . when he considered the majesty of king david , and his own condition as a subject ; what is thy servant ( saith he ) that thou shouldst look upon such a dead dog as i am ? such self-abasing thoughts in a subject ( especially those of low degree ) does argue an heart full of desires to honour him whom god has exalted as his king , and a mind willing to obey him . let christians learn by this example . 2. our saviour hath led us the right way : give unto caesar the things which are caesar's . but what things are they ? why the things which bear his image and superscription . whose image and superscription is this , says christ ? they say , caesar's . therefore , saith christ , give unto caesar , &c. we may hence fairly infer , that whatsoever bears the king's authority , or is required in his name , must be obeyed . submit your selves to every ordinance of man , for the lord's sake , whether it be to the king as supream , or unto governours , as unto those that are sent by him . mark , if they be sent by him , they bear his image , or superscription , they represent the king ; submit , submit , either actively or passively , here 's no resisting , for here comes caesar . only here it must be minded , caesar's superscription is only to be put to the ordinances of man. none can put a divine character upon a law but god ; and we must give to god the things which are god's , divine obedience , or obedience in all divine things , to god ; civil obedience , or obedience in all civil things , to caesar . thus has our saviour divided the matter of christians ( and all mens ) obedience to god , and to caesar . let us hold to this most just settlement , a better cannot possibly be given . 3. st. paul will have christians subjection to caesar , to proceed from them of pure conscience , or for conscience sake , rom. 13. not only wrath. and of this reason wills that we give all the assurance that we can to princes , that we are heartily their subjects ; and willingly obedient in all things which concerns their government over us . this principle of obedience in the heart , will make our obedience to princes delightful and durable ; they that have this good principle in them , will never be weary of any reasonable labour , service , or hazard for their king : where it is wanting , the king can put no confidence in them . this is so reasonable , so necessary , that he that hath not such an heart for his sovereign , is unworthy the name of a subject : he is no subject . from this principle , we are to pay tribute also , rom. 13. 6 , 7. and not grudgingly . and when princes see men ready , in conscience of their duty , to serve them as god's vicegerents ; how naturally will this draw back again the influence of all princely favours ? that prince who is thus happy in the obedience of his subjects , will doubtless , as a loving father , contrive the best to make his subjects happy under his government . 4. how clearly is our duty to our superiors delivered by st. paul , tit. 3. 1 , &c. put them in mind to be subject to principalities and powers , to obey magistrates , to be ready to every good work . let the power be in this or the other form ( for all nations have not the same form of government ) you must not dispute that , you must chearfully obey , as becomes men of a ready mind , to do the good commanded by magistrates ; you must not ask whether they be heathen kings , or christian kings : you must obey all kings or magistrates , for they are god's ministers , attending on this very thing ; i. e. the government of the world : a very necessary thing , without which human society cannot subsist . here is no limitation of time for your subjection to princes , powers , and magistrates ; you are under this obligation so long as st. paul's epistle to titus is canonical . let not then any idle dream of the change of dispensations subvert you from the simplicity of the gospel-rules delivered in this great case , in which the happiness of christian men , as such , is much concerned : for , who shall harm them if they be careful followers of that which is good ? 1 pet. 3. 13. but if it so fall out , that notwithstanding your care in this matter , ye must suffer for righteousness sake , then happy are ye , &c. for still religious obedience is due to god , and must be paid to him . 5. this place , tit. 3. 1. commands christians to be ready to every good work . obj. what if the powers command otherwise ? what then ? for answer to this , we know we have an obligation to obey god antecedent to that of our obedience to kings ( as has been shewed . ) he commands us to abstain from every appearance of evil , 1 thess . 5. 22. wherefore if the power shall be so unhappy to command otherwise , as it fell out in the case of nebuchadnezzar , dan. 5. there the penalty must be patiently endured . and then the powers are still obeyed . and tho some vainly upbraid us , that there either is no such thing as passive obedience ; or that our obedience in this is like the obedience of a felon , when he goes to the gallows , &c. such blind byards may be pleased to know , the felon hath ordinarily nothing to chuse , but must necessarily dye : whereas the suffering christian has life and liberty offered if he will but worship so , or so . now here he chuses rather to suffer , than to do that which he conceives ( at least ) to be sin in the sight of god , that so he may be a faithful witness for god ; and therein a blessing to his prince and to his nation , which is his only way to silence the ignorance of foolish men ; whose unwary objections reflect not only upon all true martyrs since the world began , but upon christ himself , who for this cause was hated and persecuted , because he bore witness to the truth , joh. 18. 37. and that the works of the world were evil , john 7. 7. 6. but if it should happen that princes should some way intrench upon the civil rights of their subjects ? what then must we do ? what then ? why it is dangerous to contend with them in such cases ; we are taught otherwise by the example of our saviour , in his direction to st. peter , in the case of paying tribute to the roman magistrates , mat. 17. 25 , 26 , 27. for it is evident from this place , that our saviour was not obliged by law to pay custom or tribute , but was free in that case ; yet it being demanded , he advises peter to pay it , both for himself , and his master : so careful was he to avoid offences , that he will pay tribute , and advises his followers to do it too , tho it be in their own wrong . a good precedent to all christians to be humble , and not to contend with authority in or about indifferent things : would god they would consider it . 7. but it may here be demanded , whether princes may not warrantably punish such as submit not to the religion by them established , from the example of king artaxerxes , ezra . 7. 26. whosoever will not do the law of thy god , and the law of the king , let judgment be executed speedily upon him , whether it be unto death , or to banishment , or to confiscation of goods , or to imprisonment ? i confess , this objection requires a serious answer . and with submission to better judgments , i shall say a few things in answer to it . and it seems by the scope and contexture of the commission given to ezra by artaxerxes , that these things are evident : 1. that the king did not himself embrace the religion of the jewish nation , but retained still his former religion ; for tho he did fear the god of israel , yet he never calls him his god , but the god of heaven , and the god of ezra , &c. 2. that god had by a special providence , and motion from himself , disposed the heart of the king of persia , to give free liberty to the jews , which were captives in his dominions , to go forth to serve their god ; vers . 13. i make a decree , that all they of the people of israel , and of his priests and levites in my realm , which are minded of their own free will to go up to jerusalem , to go with thee , — to do whatsoever shall seem good to them , after the will of your god. 3. the king does not only give a present supply to ezra , as a free-will-offering to the god of israel , vers . 15. but also provides for his necessary supply for the future , out of the king's treasury , vers . 20. 4. the king fearing the displeasure of the god of israel against himself and his sons , does require ezra , that whatsoever was required by the god of heaven should be diligently done . 5. the king also empowers ezra to set magistrates and judges over the people , and in so doing , gave ezra a magistratical power , or made him a magistrate ; and so gives order , that whosoever would not be obedient to him should be punished , vers . 25 , 26. this is the sum of the commission given to ezra by the king of persia . in all which , nothing appears , that any of his subjects should be compelled to alter their religion , nor be forced to be all of one religion : but a free liberty is given to the jews , ( as well as to others ) to serve their god according to his law , and a restraint laid upon them that would hinder them . and ezra is empowered ( indeed ) to punish those that were under the law of moses , according to that law , if they would not do it ; and such as withstood his authority , as a magistrate , which he received from the king , were to be punished by the law of the king of persia , who had the power of life and death in his hand , which the jewish nation had not at this time . 6. we may learn hence , that it is indeed a blessed thing for all kings to fear the god of heaven , and to advance the interest of religion in their dominions ; and it is as evident , that religion must always be setled according to the law of god , with the greatest care that may be , and none punished for keeping the law of god ; but for breaking the law of god , and the law of the king , which did concur with the law of god. here were great punishments assigned ; and yet not to be insisted on too rashly , in the times of the gospel , nor in cases purely evangelical , or of the christian religion , as it is dignified above the principles of common reason and morality : in these cases i cannot see how it should be in the power of magistrates to compell any against their will , seeing it's god , not man , that makes christians . ephes . 2. 10. we are his workmanship , created in christ jesus unto good works , which god hath before ordained , that we should walk in them . and god gives none the privileges of his children , until they be his children ; nor are they his children , till they be born , not of blood , nor of flesh , nor of the will of man , but of god. john 1. 12 , 13. 7. nor must we deny , but acknowledg , that god's vicegerents are authorized by the almighty to be keepers of both tables , so as to defend his sovereignty , and to encourage true religion , against atheists and idolaters , that worship a creature instead of the creator ; for so it is written , job 31. 26 , 27 , 28. if i beheld the sun when it shined , or the moon walking in brightness , and my heart hath been secretly enticed , or my mouth hath kissed my hand ; this also were an iniquity to be punished by the judge , for i should have denied god that is above . now let us write ( or desire the lord to write ) the words of our text in our hearts ; honour all men ; love the brotherhood ; fear god ; honour the king. surely that christian , that shall make it his business to do these things heartily , shall be acceptable to god , and approved of men ; there shall be no occasion of stumbling in him . but if christians be too busy to inspect matters of state , or to meddle with those that contrive or project any thing to the disturbance and subversion of the government in the kingdoms where they live , they shall never be able to recommend their religion ( be it never so good in it self ) to the acceptance of their governors , nor to obtain from them to be nursing-fathers to it ; but shall certainly expose themselves to the displeasure of god , as well as to the wrath of princes . and god himself will vindicate the honour of his ordinance of worldly government , against all that despise it , as well as against all that abuse their power in it ; for there is no respect of persons with god. rom. 2. 11. let me therefore exhort you , my brethren , ( as you know it has been my manner these thirty years ) to follow peace with all men , and holiness ; to study to be quiet , and especially in troublesom times ; to fear the lord and the king , and meddle not with them that are given to change , prov. 24. 21. many have undone themselves by itching after changes in worldly government . god only knows what is best for you , and for the nation . they that are weary of this , are soon weary of that ; few know what they would have ; and who is able to devise any thing that will please all humors , and suit all interests ? bless god for your prince , and for the peace you have enjoyed under him , and pray for him , and for all that are in authority , that under them ( if the will of god be so ) you may lead quiet and peaceable lives in all godliness and honesty . they that will not pray for all that are in authority , do not fear god , for they contemn his word , 1 tim. 2. 1. they do not love , and so they cannot honour the king. you are at present under sufferings , for the consciencious performance of what you believe to be your duty towards god in matters of religion ; humble your selves under the mighty hand of god , and suffer patiently what trials it shall please god to exercise you under , that ( as our apostle hath it , 1 pet. 1. 7. ) the trial of your faith being much more precious than that of gold that perisheth , tho it be tried with fire , might be found unto praise , and honour , and glory , at the appearing of jesus christ . i say no more ; the lord direct you . amen . now if it shall please god , to bring this faithful ( tho unpolished ) discourse to his majesties royal hand , i do hereby in all humility prostrate my self at his royal feet , with this humble supplication . that it would graciously please his majesty , according to his wonted goodness , and princely clemency , to consider and pity the distressed condition of many of his faithful subjects , who dissent from the church of england in the case of infant-baptism , and some other ceremonies , and cannot in conscience to god conform to them ; nor deny the exercise of their religion , of which they are convinced , and persuaded to be according to the will of god. o let our lord the king consider , that this is the greatest strait that any honest christian can be put upon , either to deny what he believes to be true , or profess that to be true , which he believes to be otherwise . o let the god of heaven be always his majesties chief counsellour ; that by his direction he may rightly distinguish between those that are harmless in his realm , and such as have abused his kindnesses ( which have been very great , and thankfully to be remembred ) and that the present severities against the innocent may be abated and removed , lest they be made miserable in their native countrey . god almighty bless the king , &c. finis . the second part of the apology for the baptized believers , wherein the grounds of infant-baptism are reviewed : in answer to fourteen arguments , delivered by mr. nathaniel taylor , m. a. in a sermon on matth. 28. 19. entituled , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . and therewithal , the reasons of the separation of the baptized believers , from the pedobaptists , modestly propounded . upon the occasion of their great and long-continued sufferings . by t. grantham , a servant of christ . london ; printed for the author . 1684. an apology for the baptized believers , &c. presented to all pious and well-disposed christians in the church of england . sect . i. honoured and beloved brethren , to prevent a mistake , and to remove an aspersion too frequently cast upon us , be pleased to know , that tho we differ from you and others , in some things relating to the constitution and government of a true church , yet we do not therefore arrogate to our selves alone the christian name , nor exalt our selves in our imaginations above others ; but do believe and hope , that the number of the saved ones will be gathered out of all sorts of christians , who heartily love god and our lord jesus christ , and live holily and charitably among men , tho they be diversified in respect of ceremonies , by reason of the place and government where they live : yea , we have charity for all men , who are faithful to the means of grace afforded them , how small soever , knowing that our god delights in mercy , and does not exact the utmost farthing of any man. but for all this , as it is certain there hath been abundance of errors introduced among christians , so it has pleased god to raise up a people still to testify against them , ( the memories of whom are blessed , tho they were frequently persecuted . ) so we believe it a duty incumbent upon us , to bear our testimony to what truth we know , and not to partake with any in their by-paths in life or religion , and yet endeavour as much as in us lieth , after unity and concord with all that fear god , and own the christian profession . to which purpose we have humbly proposed what we thought concern'd us , in order to a better understanding and compliance , in our friendly epistle to the bishops and ministers of the church of england , published some years ago , but has not been publickly taken notice of , till lately one mr. taylor , a person of worth for his integrity , and zeal for the protestant interest , and for his gentle disposition towards such as fear god , tho differing from him in the case of ceremonies . it hath pleased him ( i say ) to take notice of our said epistle , and to offer something in order to a composure of differences , which i confess , with him , to be a thing greatly to be desired . but then he is pleased to shew us nothing of mitigation , or hopes of the removal of the things which hath occasioned our disunion , but does rather wholly charge the cause of division upon us , and supposes our difference about baptism , to be the chief cause of our dissenting from the church of england . but tho this is indeed a matter of great importance , because true baptism is antecedent to church-communion ; yet that which is greater in our judgment , is that open prophaneness , which , god knows , reigns and rages in the church of england , and therewithal , the utter neglect of discipline to reform those iniquities ; and also that persecuting spirit , which appears even in too many of the guides of the church , by whose cruelty our sufferings have been much augmented . for these causes we have thought our selves concerned to make this our christian apology , in which we crave leave to use that freedom of speech which the matters depending do require . and yet , seeing we must acknowledg that we are not infallible , ( as neither does the church of england pretend so to be ) we shall speak under correction , and by the help of god , with resolution to submit to a clear conviction , if indeed it shall appear , that the things wherein we dissent are justifiable on the part of the church of england ; but till this be done , it would be hypocrisy and baseness in us , to violate our consciences in things pertaining to religion , to obtain favour from men ; for if we should so please men , we should not be the servants of christ . gal. 1. 10. and we do the 〈◊〉 desire to be heard at this time ; partly , for that mr. taylor is pleased to impute folly to us , in separating from the church of england , because we allow of the most of the thirty nine articles ; but especially being thereunto required by some of eminency and great authority in the church of england , who also told us , that unless we could shew , that the church of england does hold some error in point of faith , or that she does practise something in her religion which is sinful , we cannot justify our separation from her . and whether we be able on this wise to vindicate our present separation , is the business which we pray may be seriously considered . sect . ii. a brief account of the reasons why the baptized believers cannot conform to the ceremonies of the church of england . reserving all due honour to the church of england , so far as she holds the truth in the thirty nine articles , and as she is a good fortress against much popish superstition and idolatry ; we shall humbly make our objections in three particulars , 1. concerning infant-baptism . 2. concerning her discipline . 3. concerning her imposing of ceremonies . from all which we think we may safely argue thus : it is lawful , just , and needful , to maintain a prudent and friendly separation from such a church , as does believe , hold , and maintain such things , as are evidently and actually destructive of that christian liberty , wherewith christ hath made his churches free ; and of that sacred baptism , and holy discipline , which christ ordained to continue in all churches to the end of the world. but the church of england does believe , hold , and maintain such things , as are evidently and actually destructive of that christian liberty , wherewith christ hath made his churches free , and of that sacred baptism , and holy discipline , which christ ordained to continue in all churches , to the end of the world. ergo , it is lawful , just , and needful to maintain a prudent and friendly separation from the church of england in her present parochial constitution . supposing the major is not to be denied by any christian , we shall endeavour to make good the minor. to begin with sacred baptism . it is evident from the scripture , and partly from the confession of the church of england , that the things prerequisite to baptism , on the part of every one who is to be joined with the church militant , or to be baptized , are these : 1. they ought to have the gospel preached , or some way made known to them . 2. to believe the gospel . 3. to repent of sin. and , 4. willingly to put on christ in baptism . or to express it in short : they are , first , to be dead with christ ; and then , secondly , to be buried with christ by baptism . now that the church of england does hold such things as are evidently and actually destructive of this baptism , may in our judgment be thus proved : 1. she believes , holds , and does teach others to hold , that all , or the very most of her church-members are regenerate , without hearing the word of god , without faith , without repentance , or any knowledg of god ; and so believes what neither we , nor any body else can understand to be true , and errs in faith. 2. yet she does not believe that her members are regenerate at all , till she cross or sprinkle them with water ; neither does she know ( because she has no ground to believe ) that infants are thereby made anew , so as to become the children of god , and heirs of heaven ; and believing this without possibility ( ordinarily ) to know it to be true , she errs in faith. 3. she believes , and maintains , that those ought to be baptized , whom she knows do not , cannot believe , nor repent , nor in any measure know god , nor any duty of religion ; and herein she errs ( as we conceive ) concerning the faith. 4. she believes and maintains , that sponsors do believe and repent for infants , or that infants do perform faith and repentance by their sponsors ; and believing these things , and teaching her youth to believe them , without any ground from the word of god , she believes amiss , or errs in faith. 5. she holds , that persons may lawfully be baptized when they are asleep , and does actually pretend to baptize infants when they are asleep , which we think verily must needs be a very great error both in faith and practice . 6. she believes , holds , and maintains , that crossing or sprinkling is a lawful way of baptizing , when indeed it is no baptizing at all . insomuch as those that use that mode , dare not speak as they act , saying , i sprinkle thee in the name , &c. their conscience bearing them witness , that the sacred act of baptizing in the name , &c. cannot be expressed by the word , sprinkling : they therefore believing what they know is not true in this matter , must needs err in faith , as well as in their practice . and this error has in a manner destroyed the way of baptizing used by john baptist , christ and his apostles . 7. thus tho we grant , that the church of england is no less zealous for the doctrine of baptism than our selves , yet it is apparent to us , that she hath accidentally lost this holy ordinance , both in respect of the subject and manner of it , and in the due use and end of it , which was not appointed ( nor fitted ) to receive new-boru infants into the church militant . and by this unwarrantable change she has defaced the state , and lost the praise of a true church , 1 cor. 11. 2. because she has not kept this ordinance , as it was delivered by christ and his apostles ; but hath rather suppressed it , and much oppressed those that labour to restore it to its due use and practice in all churches , which is a great aggravation of all these her errors in faith and practice , concerning sacred baptism . sect . iii. concerning discipline . what manner of discipline the church of christ ought to observe , is sufficiently declared , matth. 18. 1 cor 5. 2 thess . 3. tit. 3. and other places . and it is very well expressed by a minister of the church of england , in his def●nce of the thirty nine articles of the church of england , in these words : the manner of proceeding in excommunication is , first by gentle admonition , and that once or twice , given with the spirit of meekness , even as a brother , if the fault be not notoriously known , and next , by open reprehension ; afterward by publick sentence of the church , to put him from the company of the faithful , to deliver him to satan , to denounce him an heathen , and a publican , if no admonition will serve , and the crimes and persons be very offensive . thus he . and to this discipline we can heartily subscribe , it being indeed the very same which is religiously observed by the baptized believers in this age and nation . but where now shall this discipline be found in the church of england ? does any one assembly , or court , of the church of england observe it ? or does she not practise that in her courts , which is too evidently destructive of it ? for so far as we can understand , instead of this brotherly admonition , men are clandestinely presented and accused , and often excommunicated for they know not what . what man is now taught or bound by any order of the church of england , that in case his brother trespass against him , by defaming his reputation , offering injury to his person , or by wronging him in his substance , to take that brotherly course prescribed to all christians , mat. 18. ? or if he would take this course , what congregation is empowred or allowed to hear or determine the strife , as sin is in such cases committed against god ? we see not how it is possible for the offended , to do his duty in an orderly way to the offender ; if he go about it , he shall probably be derided both by teacher and people : so far is he from obtaining justice against the offender , in any congregation of the church of england , because the ancient discipline is an unknown thing to the people generally . and for want of this christian government , are men continually exposed to suits and troubles in courts of law , wherein the poor can have small help ; as it is written , eccles . 5. 8. ( old translation ) if thou seest the poor to be oppressed , — marvel not , — for one great man keepeth touch with another , and the mighty men are in authority over the poor . 3. but that which is more grievous : we do not see that open prophaneness can be met with , or suppressed by your discipline : for suppose a man be given to swearing , lying , drunkenness , and lascivious talking , ( as god knows , a great number of the members of the church of england are known to be such ) your discipline seems to have no power in such cases : for thus saith one of your own ministers : who minds canon 109 , that prohibits common swearers , common drunkards , notorious whoremasters , and whores , &c. from the blessed sacrament of the lord's supper ? do not even bishops hear men swear a thousand oaths , and either do not , or dare not use any discipline against them ? but now if a good man do not stand up , and bow to the altar at the name of jesus , when the creed is read , because he dares not pay greater reverence ( in a religious way ) to any writing , than he pays to the holy scriptures ; if he dares not use the sign of the cross in baptism , nor sprinkle his child , &c. then shall he be prosecuted as a great sinner , cast to the devil , and laid in prison ; yea , he is sentenced already : for in canon 6. thus we read : whosoever shall affirm , that the rites and ceremonies of the church of england are — superstitious , or such — as men who are zealously and godlily affected , may not with any good conscience approve them , use them , or as occasion requireth , subscribe unto them ; let him be excommunicated ipso facto , and not restored , until he repent , and publickly revoke such his wicked errors . 4. thus ( as we conceive ) the discipline of righteousness , mercy , and charity , established by christ , is laid aside ; and a mercenary court set up , holding the traditions of men , instead of christ's institutions , in ecclesiastical government , who also live voluptuously upon the sins of the people . but as for the reformation of evil manners , or the making peace and concord , alas ! it is not sought for , nor indeed expected from these courts . and as the reverend grosthead said at rome , when he saw all things ruled by money , so may i say of the courts under consideration , o money , money , what wilt thou not do there ? as for the opprobrious language prohibited by the canon , we think it uncomely for any to use it , tho we dissent from the ceremonies themselves . sect . iv. concerning imposing of ceremonies . 1. all divine ceremonies ordained by christ , or his apostles , we reverence , and religiously observe and keep , as they were delivered . 2. that any church since their days , hath just power to make and ordain divine ceremonies , to be any necessary parts of the worship of god , we see no ground to believe ; much less , that such ceremonies may lawfully be imposed under pain of excommunication , banishment , imprisonment , loss of estate and life . for tho it is certain , god has given power to the rulers of the world , to make , change , or disannual laws in point of civil government ; yet we believe all the power on earth cannot make one institute or divine ceremony in religion . and therefore we cannot but think the church of england erred from the rule of righteousness , in decreeing rites and ceremonies which god has not commanded . 3. for when we see how sharply fome were reprehended by st. paul , for bringing the christian churches in galatia under some legal ceremonies , which once had a divine original and use in the church of god , as invaders of the liberty wherewith christ had made them free ; averring also , that if they were subject to them , christ should profit them nothing . gal. 5. 1 , 2. we can see no ground to free the protestants from sin , who either take up scriptureless ceremonies from the papists , or invent ceremonies themselves ; but least of all , when they force men , will they , nill they , to conform to such ceremonies , or else to be ejected , and delivered up to satan . and surely it was very unreasonable for her bishops to consent to a law , that pious men , only dissenting in these things i from the church of england , should be banished , or else hanged as felons , without benefit of the clergy . and we humbly desire , that the severity of that law may be considered and mitigated . 4. but if it shall be said , that the ceremonies of the church of england , ( as the sprinkling of infants , the sign of the cross in baptism , bowing to the altar , to name no more at present ) are not sinful ; then how shall we be ever able to reprove a papist , for using holy water , bowing to the image of christ ? &c. certainly , if we must submit to the ceremonies of the church of england , in her present constitution , we must submit to theirs too , where they have power on their side to enforce them . but he that shall impartially consider what a learned protestant hath said of the sinfulness of that one ceremony of the sign of the cross in baptism , in his book entituled , against symbolizing with antichrist in ceremonies , will see great cause to avoid touching with any such inventions , however they may be supposed to have had an harmless use among christians at the first . but who sees not , that when such ceremonies have got the reputation of religion upon them , and are forced on by humane laws , what incredible miseries they have brought upon the christian world ? how have they lorded it over kings and kingdoms , over the estates , liberties and lives of christians ? who sees not , that being thus set up , they are sometimes more set by , than sincere faith , and an holy life ? as if all true religion ( and loyalty too ) were only to be judged of according to mens submission to those humane innovations . for it is notorious , even in this our land , that let a man but conform to all the ceremonies , he shall live honourably , let his life be never so debauched almost : but let a man refuse these ceremonies , out of conscience to god , because they are not from heaven , then he is envy's mark , let his life be never so just and harmless . such effects should lead us to consider what the causes are . and because we are speaking of ceremonies , we crave leave to enquire , what means the ceremony of the ring in marriage ? why are we forced not only to use it , but to use it in the name of the father , and of the son , and of the holy-ghost ? the church of england blames the papists for saying marriage is a sacrament ; but shall we then make a sacrament of a ring ? sure you make the ring as sacred in marriage , as you make the water in baptism . such usages as these , we fear , give the papists too much cause to use this speech , a protestant is but a papist scar'd out of his wits . it is not then any thing of prejudice or obstinacy , which makes us to stand off from the communion of the church of england , but an unfeigned desire to serve god aright , and a godly fear , lest by touching with these unwritten traditions , we should bring our souls under guilt in the sight of god. howbeit , if any can convince us , that the church of england is justifiable in these things here objected , we shall suspect our selves to be mistaken in other things , which we here mention not . now may it please the god of heaven , to put it into the hearts of the guides of the church of england , to consider these things . 1. that none of these ceremonies about which we differ from them , are required of christians in the holy scriptures . and that therefore , 2. to enforce them by excommunication and penal laws upon the consciences of men , is more than god requires of you , or any body else . and surely if the making these things necessary to our communion were but removed , so that things which are not delivered in the word of god were left at liberty , we should not stand at so great a distance from the church of england , as now we do : for tho we are verily persuaded , that these things objected against by us are errors , and therefore prudently to be amended ; yet we believe the imposing of them is a thousand times more offensive in the sight of god , and more grievous to the souls of men , because ( as we conceive ) god's authority is then usurped by man , and mens fear towards him is then taught by the precepts of men. and yet we know , and indeed must confess , that many things , as to the more convenient performance of religious services in a church-way , are left to the prudence of the church , guided therein by the general rules in the word of god ; and some things also ( which are not of the essence of christianity ) will seem doubtful to some , and clear to others . and therefore there will be a continual necessity of brotherly forbearance one towards another , in some sinless ceremonies , as many things may be so esteemed , whilst not made the boundaries of communion , and forced upon christians against their consciences . for example : tho sitting be the most safe gesture at the lord's table , because nearest to christ's example ; yet if any in humility , and of devotion to god , think it their duty to receive kneeling , this surely cannot justly offend any christian . and thus also bowing at the name of jesus , being left at liberty , when , where , and upon what occasion the conscience of a christian may be most pressed to do it , need not offend any , tho it is apparent such bowing is not the meaning of the text , phil. 2. 10. and the same may be said of well-composed prayers ; so that still such forms be used as a matter of christian liberty , and not imposed by law as necessary . and could things be managed with such moderation , ( as certainly the state of the inhabitants of this land does much call for it ) in a friendly and brotherly spirit , 't is hoped our animosities would abate , and charity would endear all that are upright towards god one towards another , tho labouring under many weaknesses , or dark circumstances . but whilst one party stands up with a sword in their hand , or with power to thrust men into goal , and rifle their estates , unless they will all submit to their will and pleasure , not only without , but perhaps in some things against the word of god , ( the pretended rule to all protestants in matters of religion ) this lays a necessity upon all that are of noble and truly christian spirits , to testify against such cruelty , and unmanly proceedings , and to assert the true christian doctrine and liberty , and christ's sovereign authority only , to make laws for his church , as such , altho for so doing they suffe the loss of all things which are dear to them in this world ; and therewithal , to stand off from the communion of such unreasonable men , as have not learned to do to others , as they would have others to do to them under their differing opinions , when in a state of subjection to those who differ from them . thus much briefly of the reasons or causes of our separation . we will now consider what mr. n. taylor brings to make good poedobaptism . and the rather , because he says he has defended infant-baptism both by scripture and reason . let us hear how he doth this . mr. nathaniel taylor' 's fourteen arguments for infant-baptism , considered and answered . before we answer his arguments , we will take notice of some of his concessions . and , 1. he saith , baptism of water is not absolutely necessary to salvation . pag. 2. 2. he tells us , st. paul joins the word of god with this baptism , in order to the purifying christ's church , that acting on the soul , and this terminating on the body . and that st. peter's assertion is clear that it is not water purifying the flesh , but the answer of a good conscience towards god that saveth . pag. 7. 3. he tells us also , that the premising the word disciple ( matth. 28. 19. ) implies none to be capable of baptism , who are not disciples of christ , and members of the church . pag. 10. 4. and further , that christ would have his ordinances performed by an external administration , wherein the subject might be in the nearest capacity of understanding . pag. 81 , 82. 5. he grants , that childrens baptism , and church-membership , are not mentioned in the new testament . pag. 51. from all which a man may very fairly argue , and conclude against infant-baptism thus . if infants are undoubtedly saved without baptism ; and are members of christ's church without baptism , and that the word of god must act upon the soul in true baptism , so as that the subject of baptism must have the answer of a good conscience : and if none be capable of baptism , till they be disciples of christ , according to matth. 28. 19. and ought to be in the nearest capacity of understanding what is done in the external administration of baptism . and if infant-church-membership and baptism be not mentioned in the new testament ; then infants ought not to be baptized . but all this is true , saith mr. taylor : therefore i conclude infants ought not to be baptized . and thus his book ( i will not say ( as he ) may be soon blown away ; but it ) may seem to be soon answered : and his learned title very unsuitable . for how shall 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , when it is not mention'd in the new testament ; can that be orthodoxal baptism which is not mentioned there ? sure this is incredible . but let us hear his arguments , by which he undertakes to vindicate infant-baptism both by scripture and reason . mr. taylor 's argument 1. if our christian privileges be as great as the jews were , then our children are rightly baptized : but our christian privileges are as great as the jews were : therefore our children are rightly baptized . answer . because mr. taylor says he offers his reasons for infant-baptism , in order to a composure of differences , and i do believe he means as he says ; i shall therefore endeavour to answer them with all love and sincerity , as becomes a christian . and , i say , 1. that upon a fair distinction , both propositions may be denied . for , if the question be of external privileges only ; then whether we respect outward advantages in the world , or rites and ceremonies in the church pertinent to infants ; the minor is to be denied : for the jews were under a sure promise of a fruitful land , and external peace and glory , as a nation , whilst they did truly walk according to the laws of god , of which advantages their children were partakers as well as others . but on the other side , the christian church by how much she is more faithful , by so much the more is she subject to persecution : as may be seen in the differing estate of the faithful church at smyrna , rev. 2. 8 , 9. and the unfaithful church at laodicea , rev. 3. 17. or if we rerespect rites and ceremonies , then 't is certain , even in the judgment of all christians , the jews had more ceremonies belonging to their infants , than belongs to christian infants . for besides the rite of circumcision , there was an offering to be offered for them , and they were to be presented in the temple , and to partake of the passover , exod. 12. 47 , 48. ( and therefore mr. taylor does ill to deny it , pag. 92. ) whereas the poedobaptists only contend for the external rite of baptism to belong to their infants . but if by the word privileges in the argument be meant some higher thing than external ceremonies , then the minor is true : for as god was gracious to infants in the jewish nation , as to the business of salvation : so is he such to the infants of every christian nation in the world. but if now you be displeased , because i do not prefer , or at least equalize christians infants with jewish infants , in respect of external ceremonies . then let me freely tell you , that i do believe the privileges of christians is greater than the jews , even in this , that god accepts our infants to his grace , and to glory , without imposing the burthen of any ceremony at all upon them . for seeing he has by the gospel taken away that bloody ceremony of circumcision , and by our lord christ declared infants to have right to the kingdom of heaven , without imposing any ceremony upon them instead of circumcision , i say , herein our privileges are greater than the jews , and in this sense i confirm your minor. but then i deny the consequence of your major : for you may plainly see that our christian privileges ( when compared with the jews ) stand not in having external ceremonies , but rather in being freed from them . even as it cannot be doubted but that the children of seth , henoch , and noah , &c. had as great privileges as the jews , and yet it is certain [ and plainly confessed by augustine ] that they had no ceremony or sign of regeneration belonging to them that we read of . aug. de civ . dei , lib. 15. cap. 16. thus your chief fort being demolished , what reasons you bring to defend it signifie nothing ; however we shall meet with them in the following arguments . mr. taylor 's argument 2. those who were circumcised under the law , may be baptized under the gospel : but children were circumcised under the law : therefore they may be baptized under the gospel . answer . 1. i answer to the major . if by [ those ] you mean all those that were circumcised under the law : then the major is not true . for first , all male-servants which were bought with money , must needs be circumcised , they might not else dwell in the family : ( gen. 17. 12 , 13 , 14. exod. 12. 44 , 48 , 49. ) but no such imposition is laid upon families under the gospel , 1 cor. 7. 2. if by [ those ] you mean infants , then i deny your major : for tho infants were circumcised under the law , it does not follow that infants may be baptized under the gospel : nor do your arguments , brought to make it good , prove it at all . for , 1. tho baptism succeeds circumcision as the sacrament of initiation , yet it does not follow , that the same persons , or persons no otherwise qualified than the infants of the jews , or servants bought with money , are to be admitted to baptism ; because circumcision belonged to the natural seed of abraham as such , whether in the covenant or no ( as in the case of ishmael , ) and to his servants as such . but baptism being the sacrament or washing of regeneration , belongs to those who are born from above ( as such ) ; hence 't is said , gal. 3. 28. we are abraham's seed , because we are christ's , so , as to have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts : gal. 4. 24. and not that they are christ's , because they are abraham's seed . this vast difference therefore between the communicants of the church jewish , and the church christian , shews a great difference between the carnal ordinances of the law , and the spiritual ordinances of the gospel : so that it is no good arguing from infants right to the one , to their right to the other . 2. you say our children are as capable of being baptized , as the jews were of being circumcised . but this is denied : for the jews had a command to circumcise infants , and that made them capable of that ceremony ; but without a command none were capable of it : for some infants might be as capable of circumcision in respect of strength , on the seventh day , as others on the eighth day ; but the command not empowering any to circumcise till the eighth day , made all children that died before the eighth day uncapable of circumcision . again , you will not say that any man , as such only , is capable of baptism , because you grant they must first be disciples , and , as such , baptized . nor will you say , that all infants , as such only , may be baptized , because you do not think god has required the infants of the turks to be baptized . so then , unless you can shew that god has required our infants to be baptized , they have no capacity for it . we conclude then , whatever may be urged as a capacity for baptism , yet without a command from god , to baptize our infants , is meer will-worship and presumption . 3. you say , that the precept of receiving parent and child into covenant stands unrepealed to this day . but if by receiving into covenant , you mean a receiving to the duties of the covenant , what you say is not true ; for the covenant of circumcision is repealed . gal. 5. 2. behold , i paul say unto you , if ye be circumcised , christ shall profit you nothing . and there was never any covenant , but the covenant of circumcision , which obliged parents to bring their infants to the ceremonies of religion : so then infants are not under the burthen of any ceremonies of religion at this day . i marvel you should here say , there is no countermand of the ancient jewish practice of receiving children to circumcision . either the printer has wrong'd you , or else you hold the jews are yet bound to circumcise their infants . 4. you argue from christ's being proposed as mediator of a better covenant , that therefore this great privilege ( you mean , bringing infants to ceremonies of religion ) is not repealed . but the truth is far otherwise ; for the covenant of christ as mediator , is therefore better than the covenant of the law , because he has taken these ceremonies out of the way , and accepts poor infants without any other ceremony instead of them ; yea , the covenant is therefore better to believers themselves , in that they are obliged but to a very few ceremonies , whilst the jews laboured under a burthensom yoke of many ceremonies . and if your way of arguing were good , it would prove , that the gospel is worse to believers , than the law was to the adult jews , because they had abundance of religious privileges , to wit , ceremonies , and believers have but a very few . now who would think , that wise and good men should thus grope at noon-day ? 5. you quote acts 2. 38 , 39. and say , that this text expresly avers your conclusion . but it is certain , the promise there , is not of bringing infants to any ceremonies , and so does not at all favour your conclusion ; for the promise being of the pouring out of the gifts of the holy-ghost , according to the prophecy of joel , concerns not infants in infancy , saith dr. jer. taylor . and as for the precept in the text , [ to wit , repent , and be baptized every one of you , ] 't is as certain that concerns not infants ; for infants are just persons , which need no repentance , and consequently as little need the baptism of repentance . i rather therefore adhere to dr. jer. taylor , than to mr. nath. taylor in this case ; and i find that erasmus and diodate do expound this text as we do . 6. now , sir , your great strait seems to be this : you think the children of heathens have as great privileges as we allow to the infants of christians . let me answer freely ; i do believe , that through the grace of christ their infants , dying such , are in as sure a capacity for salvation as our infants . and why should this offend , that seeing infants are equally concluded under sin in the first adam , god should have equally mercy upon them in the second adam . nay , does not mr. taylor himself tell us , p. 4. that it 's dreadful to believe , that all infants which die unbaptized , are damned . and that any of them shall be damned , he cannot prove , seeing he says , he cannot implead them of sin , in not being baptized , being not capable of desiring it . well , i thank him for this , and shall requite him by granting , christians infants are more happy in some gracious respects , than the infants of the heathen , being the seed of many prayers , and piously devoted therein to almighty god from the womb , and have the advantage of an early education in the christian religion , that they may be as timely baptized as may be : on the other side , the infants of the heathens are perhaps devoted to idols , as the jews did sometimes devote theirs to moloch . but yet , as we do not think that god sent the jews infants to burn in hell , because their parents burnt them to moloch ; so neither ought we to think , that he will punish the infants of the heathen with devils , because their parents devoted them to idols ; for as for poor infants , what have they done ? 7. you answer not our objections , by saying , the covenant of grace , gen. 17. 10 , 13. is permanent to the worlds end , &c. for tho this were true , yet that the ceremonies which there accompany that covenant , were to continue to the world's end , and should pertain to infants to the world's end , you neither believe your self , nor can any man prove , that any ceremonies by order from christ should belong to infants to the world's end , seeing it is granted , that infant-baptism is not mentioned in the new testament . and if i yield you your five considerations following , pag. 33. i do not see that you gain any thing as to the point in question ; i therefore proceed . 8. i think you mistake , where you write that we say , those that had right to circumcision were a spiritual seed ; for we know that the carnal seed had right to it : what therefore you would build upon this mistake falls of it self . but whereas you would infer , that baptism , as well as circumcision , belongs to the carnal seed , it is certainly a great error . it is true , some that are hypocrites may come to sacred baptism , but then they profess ( at least ) to be otherwise , and are not admitted as hypocrites , nor as men only , ( as you seem to urge , numb . 2 , p. 34. ) but as they declare themselves christians , or spiritual . and therefore it is said of the whole church , ye are all the sons of god by faith in christ jesus ; for as many as have been baptized into christ , have put on christ . gal. 3. 26 , 27. and again , col. 2. ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands , in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh , by the circumcision of christ . [ therefore , rom. 6. ] we are buried with him in baptism . and besides this , your church makes baptism a visible sign of an inward or spiritual grace ; and does affirm of all whom she admits to baptism , that they are regenerate , and born anew : which shews that in this point we agree , that the inward work of grace should be in all that are baptized . 9. i grant , that jeremiah and john baptist were sanctified , or separated to god from the womb , the one to be a prophet , the other to be the fore-runner of our lord christ ; yet i deny , that these extraordinary cases are to be made the rules for us to baptize by . god knows what we will be from our birth to our death ; but these things are hid from us . things revealed and commanded belong to us . we may not presume to think either of men or infants above what is written ; to say , this is sanctified from the womb , and that not ; this is a believer , and that not , &c. but shew us a rule to baptize infants , and we will dispute no further . mr. taylor 's argument 3. those who are within the covenant of grace , may be baptized : but children are within the covenant of grace : therefore children may be baptized . answer . 1. the major being taken universally , for all that are in the covenant of grace , then it is to be denied ; for god never made that the rule of baptizing . nay , when circumcision was in the greatest use , yet all that were in the covenant of grace were not to be circumcised . such were the many thousands of male infants , who died before they were eight days old ; these were in covenant , and their salvation as sure as if they had been circumcised . the females also were in covenant , yet not to be circumcised . if you say they were not capable , learned authors tell you otherwise , and name some nations who circumcise both sexes to this day . by this you see your major runs upon a false supposition . 2. and if by those who are within the covenant , you mean some of those , then your argument comes short of the question , viz. whether all that are in the covenant of grace may be baptized ? but let us try your minor. the covenant of grace hath two parts , 1. a declaration of god's mercy in mans redemption ; in this respect i grant , infants are within the covenant of grace . 2. a declaration of mans duty in point of faith and obedience ; in this sence i deny infants to be in the covenant . let us hear therefore how you confirm your minor. 3. you say , it is verified , in that baptism is the seal of the covenant now , as circumcision was under the law , &c. and therefore those who are under the participation of the covenant , may be admitted to the seal , &c. 4. but why do our brethren of the church of england speak of the seal in the singular ? they used to tell us , the covenant has two seals , to wit , baptism , and the table of the lord. and i will abide by it , that the lord's table is as truly a seal of the covenant , as baptism . yet you deny infants this seal , tho you know when they first baptized infants , they also brought them to the lord's table , and this custom continued six hundred years . but i deny your consequence ; it follows not , that all that are in covenant may have the seal of baptism . and you tell us , that god's grace is universal , pag. 37. yet you will not say that baptism is universal ; it belongs but to those who restipulate , and enter into covenant upon the terms of faith and repentance . acts 8. 12. when they believed , &c. they were baptized , both men and women . and here the city of samaria generally received the gospel , and yet not an infant baptized . 5. but how shall i understand you , where you say , that children never excluded themselves from the covenant of grace , because not actual vnbelievers , and none but such were ejected ? and where you presently say , they have the covenant belonging to them with their believing parents ? have infants no benefit by the covenant of grace , unless their parents believe ? alas ! poor infants ! but sure god does not exclude infants from the covenant of grace , made for mankind in christ , because their parents believe not ; no , i will hold to your first saying , that none but actual vnbelievers are rejected . 6. that the holiness mentioned , 1 cor. 7. 14. is only legitimacy , or lawfulness of birth , you would have to be only a gloss of the anabaptists . but how can you fairly take it for any other , seeing it is taken immediately from the sanctification of the unbelieving husband , as the word [ else ] being rightly referred , makes evident . upon which consideration , erasmus expounds this place expresly as we do , yet he was a poedobaptist . and austin long before him said , whatever that holiness is , 1 cor. 7. 14. it is certain it is not of power to make christians , or remit sins . sir , if you consider the scope of the place , 1 cor. 7. you will find , some in that church were in doubt whether they might dwell with their unbelieving yokefellows . st. paul resolves the doubt in the affirmative , and gives this reason for it : the unbelieving husband is sanctified to the believing wife ; and if he were not so , their children were unclean , but he being sanctified , their children were clean ; for marriage is honourable among all , and the marriage-bed undefiled , heb. 13. therefore let not the husband put away his wife , nor the wife depart from her husband . 7. what you say further to this argument , being built upon a wrong supposition , viz. that we deny infants to be within the covenant of grace , falls of it self . for we say with you , till they by actual unbelief exclude themselves , the grace of god extends to them , as well as to others , in respect of their salvation . mr. taylor 's argument 4. those who have right to the blessings of the covenant , have right to baptism : but children have right to the blessings of the covenant : therefore they have right to baptism . answer . 1. this argument is upon the matter the same with the former , and therefore upon the former distinction the major is denied : for tho infants have right to all the blessings of the covenant which they have need of , yet they have no right to the duties of the covenant , which they have no need of , because god requires no duties of them . 2. and tho you say , that our concession ( that infants are within the covenant of grace ) proves that infants have right to all the privileges of the covenant ; yet this is contrary to your own judgment , for you your selves deny them right to the lord's table , and indeed all other privileges , as much as we do , except your crossing and sprinkling them . what you say further here , is often repeated , and will be considered in the following arguments ; and if i repeat in my answers , you have compelled me . mr. taylor 's argument 5. those who are capable of being engaged in covenant with god , are capable of baptism : but children are capable of being engaged in covenant with god : therefore children are capable of baptism . answer . 1. this argument , ( as most of the rest ) may be retorted thus ; they that are capable of being engaged in covenant with god , are capable of the lord's table : but infants are capable of being engaged in the covenant , &c. ergo , they are capable of the lord's table . which sufficiently shews the unsoundness of your argument . but let us examine the proof of your major . 2. to this purpose you tell us , that infants are in the power of their parents , to dispose of , as to temporals and spirituals . and your reason is , because parents are obliged to take the greatest care imaginable of their childrens souls , for their education in the fear of god. well , now i see why you use not the word infants , but children , all along in your arguments : you know that infants , such as you sprinkle , are not capable of any education at all . they cannot be taught the fear of god. they then cannot be engaged in covenant by the means of education , nor can they in that state be brought up in his service , in respect of religious ordinances : so that instead of proving , you have lost your minor. 3. what you argue , from deut. 29. 11 , 12 , 14. will never prove that infants are capable of entering into covenant with god in their own persons ; but that their parents did engage to bring them up in the laws of god ; and what this is to the purpose , i do not imagine . is it therefore my duty to baptize my children , without a command from god to do so , meerly because by the covenant of grace , and rules of christianity , i am to do my best to teach my children the fear of the lord ? this is very inconsequent , and will as much oblige me to bring my infants to the lord's table , as i have shewed . this last you will not allow , because god requires it not ; and for the same reason i refuse to bring my infants to baptism , tho i believe it my duty to do all that i can to engage them in covenant with god , by christian education in the fear of god , that they may serve him in all his commands and ordinances blameless . 4. wherefore in answer to your argument : if by infants being capable of being engaged in covenant with god , you mean the parents engagement to educate them in the fear of god , &c. then i deny your major , and say , those who are only capable thus to be engaged with god in covenant , are not capable of baptism . but if you mean , a personal and actual entring into covenant with god , then i deny your minor , and all the experience of the world confutes you . 5. you shall never be able to prove that infants are capable of fasting and 〈…〉 duties , tho you seem to affirm it ; and what 〈…〉 the beasts ) and that fast was pleasing to 〈…〉 arises to prove that either infants , or the 〈…〉 any duty to god , nor that they are therefore to be brought to the participation of baptism , nor any other religious ordinance , without order from god to do it . yet if a man were disposed to syllogize from hence after your manner , he might as strongly plead for one error , as you do for another . 6. the capacity of jewish children for circumcision , or other rites of the law , depended chiefly on the will of god to order it so . prove that it is his will to have infants baptized , and we will not mention their incapacity . if it be not his will , wherefore is it done ? who has required it ? mr. taylor 's argument 6. those who are members of christ's church , ought to be baptized : but children are members of christ's church : therefore children ought to be baptized . answer . if by the church of christ , you mean all that since the death of christ , shall be saved ; then i deny the major . for the infants of the poor indians may be saved , yet in your judgment they ought not to be baptized . but if by the church of christ , you mean only such as are in the actual profession of the gospel : then i deny the minor , and retort your argument thus . 1. those who are members of the church , ought to continue in the apostles doctrine , and in fellowship , and in breaking of bread , and in prayers . but &c. ergo , &c. the major is proved , acts 2. 41. 1 cor. 10. they continued stedfastly in the apostle's doctrine , and fellowship , and in breaking of bread , and in prayers . we being many , are one body and one bread , for we are all partakers of that one bread. these things were spoken of the whole church , which was in these places engaged in the actual profession of the gospel . now see how you can defend your self against my minor , and therein you will easily see the infirmity of your own . 2. but to prove your minor , you say , the children of the jews were with their parents church-members under the law , and that law is not yet repealed . but if by their church-membership you mean , their right to , and their parents act in bringing them to ceremonies in religion , the contrary is true . the covenant of circumcision being repealed , as it was an obligation to the children of israel , and never made with any nation since ; nor any other covenant extant where such things are imposed upon infants . 3. that the children of converted jews , lost not their privileges , is not true , if by privileges you intend ceremonies ; but if by privileges you mean a being delivered from the law of ceremonies , then i grant it . and it is certainly a greater privilege that children are under a declared right to the kingdom of god by christ , and his gracious blessing a part of them , as a pledg for the whole , than if he had ordained a law to baptize them in order thereunto . and it is also certain , that the jewish church-state , being dissolved upon the death of christ , and the gospel-church , confirmed in the gift of tongues , &c. no person could rightly stand a member of the jewish church , which was the only church that ever had command from god to bring their infants to rites of religion . 4. you still urge , that the gentiles had equal privileges with the jews . and i grant they have greater privileges , but not in rites and ceremonies , but rather in being accepted without them , as touching their infants , and with a very few as touching themselves . but you say further , that the children of parents who did not believe , were rejected ; therefore the children of believing parents , or gentiles , are church-members . and here , i confess , i know not how to reconcile you to your self , where you say , none are excluded from the covenant of grace but actual vnbelievers , pag. 26. sure the son shall not dye for the sin of the parents , so as to go to hell with them . shall not the judg of all the earth do right ? 5. you say , children are either members of the visible church of christ , or else are visibly of satan's kingdom , there is no medium between these two . surely i did not think mr. taylor had been of this opinion ! no papist can say worse of poor infants . here you condemn many thousands of infants ; god give you a better understanding . are infants of jews , turks , and indians all of the visible kingdom of satan ? no , i will believe my saviour , who saith , it is not the will of his heavenly father that one of these little ones should perish , mat. 18. 14. and sure i am , that none are truly of satan's kingdom , but such as are his subjects . for he has no right over any by creation , and purchase , as god and christ have . now it being clear , that infants are none of satan's subjects , it must needs be very injurious , to say they are visibly of his kingdom . but being created by god , and redeemed by christ , and never offended in their own persons , it is rational to think they are in god's favour , as it appears the infants of the ninevites were , jonah 4. in his gracious arms we shall therefore leave them , and proceed . mr. taylor 's argument 7. those who are disciples of christ may be baptized : but children are disciples of christ : therefore children may be baptized . answer . 1. the minor is denied . infants are not disciples of christ , neither does god and christ own them for such , as you affirm . but you bring acts 15. 1 , 2 , 10. to prove it , and say , that the yoak which the jews would have laid upon the new converted gentiles , was circumcision , which pertained to children who were circumcised the eighth day , and yet it is laid too upon the disciples necks . but sir , do you think this to be rational , that because the jews would have laid the yoak of circumcision on the necks of the disciples , that therefore all were disciples upon whom they would have laid that yoak ? sure this is a very unlawful consequence : no better than this ; you would lay the yoak of crossing and sprinkling upon infants , therefore all are infants upon whom you would lay the yoak of crossing and sprinkling . again , they that were preserved in the ark of noah were men and women : therefore all that were preserved in the ark of noah were men and women . you may easily see these consequences are very untrue , and verily so is yours . for tho the false apostles would have laid the yoak of circumcision upon the necks of the disciples , yet all were not disciples whom they would have circumcised : for 't is said , they taught the brethren , except they were circumcised , &c. they could not be saved . but you cannot imagine that they taught infants . if acts 15. be diligently read , it will expound it self ; for vers . 19. the disciples are said to be such as from among the gentiles were turned to god. and all that are called disciples , vers . 10. are called brethren , and as such they are written unto by the assembly , vers . 23. and the epistle is said to be read to all the multitude ( meaning of the disciples , ) who thereupon are said to rejoice for the consolation : sure these were no infants . 2. but you say , they are disciples in that ; tho man cannot teach them , yet god can , and may . well , i thank you for your ingenuity . it is true ( as you say ) man cannot teach , or make infants disciples ; and then to be sure , they are not intended by our saviour to be made disciples , by what he says in your text , mat. 28. 19. for all that are to be made disciples , by that commission , are to be made such by men : so that you are evidently besides your text , in all that you say to this argument , and you are beside your own exposition of your text also , which i will here set down , as you give it , pag. 10. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , going to disciple all nations , instruct them in the principles of my religion ; and then being disciples , baptize them : so that there is a discipleship pre-existent to baptism ; and indeed the premising the word disciple , implies none to be capable of baptism , who are not disciples of christ , and members of his church . these are your words . 't is true , you say infants will be proved to be disciples . but surely , not by saying as you do here , that god can make them disciples , or teach them : for it is no good arguing from what god can do , to say he has done it , or will do it . for god can , of the stones in the street , raise up children unto abraham , but i may not therefore say the stones in the srreet are the children of abraham . you say indeed , that god hath given several instances of his teaching several from the womb , but you can neither name the persons , nor shew us what he taught them ; however if you could , such miraculous operations are not given for general rules . god once taught a dumb ass to speak , and to reprove a prophet ; but it would be bad arguing from this instance , that asses are disciples : and yet this is a clearer instance of god's teaching the ass , than you can give of his teaching any infant . 3. but seeing you put infants discipleship upon the account of god's teaching them , you must have some competent ground to believe that he has miraculously taught them , before you baptize them ; or else you destroy your exposition of the text , which avers , that there is a discipleship pre-existent to baptism . and when you shall shew me the infant whom god hath taught , or made a disciple , i believe i shall not oppose your baptizing that infant , and this is as much as you can desire . 4. but you say further , that god hath promised to teach children . what , sir , in their infancy ? let us see your proofs ; isa . 54. 13. all thy children shall be taught of the lord , and great shall be the peace of thy children . john 6. 45. it is written in the prophets , and they shall be all taught of god. every man therefore that hath heard and learned of the father , cometh unto me . certainly had you read those texts with their coherence , and considered , that our saviour himself in the latter expounds the former , you would never have imagined , that god here promises to teach any infants , much less all the infants in the christian nations ; for it is very apparent , they that are taught according to these scriptures , have heard and learned of the father , so as to come to christ . and indeed the meaning is , that god speaking to us by his son , ( who is very god , 1 john 5. ) had now made good that gracious promise , isa . 54. 13. all thy children shall be taught of the lord. but you have another text , acts 10. 47. can any man forbid water , that these should not be baptized , who have received the holy-ghost as well as we ? now he that reads this place , will easily see , that the persons here spoken of were only such as were assembled to hear peter , in whatsoever they should be commanded of god ; and that the holy-ghost fell on all that heard the word . which place therefore can with no shew of reason be brought , to prove that infants are taught of god. however , when you shall find an infant , that has received the holy-ghost , as well as the apostles ; then for my part i shall not forbid water , that you should baptize him , provided you first be baptized your self . 5. you will have infants to be disciples , because christ ( you say ) commands the receiving of them in his name ; and you quote luke 18. 16 , 17. mat. 19. 13. luke 9. 47. i have carefully read all these places , but can find no command to receive infants in the name of christ , much less to receive them by baptism . it is true , christ called a little child unto him , and said , whosoever shall receive this child in my name , receiveth me . now this child was able to know what christ said , and is no fit instance to prove an infant of eight days old to be a disciple of christ ; neither does this text call this child a disciple , but the disciples are distinguished from it . and yet it ( and so any little child ) may be a good precedent even to disciples , to learn humility and simplicity by ; and so may a lamb or a dove serve to teach us to be humble and harmless , yet they are not therefore disciples . neither can the receiving this child , ( or any other in like case ) be understood of receiving them by baptism ; for then you may read the place thus , whosoever baytizeth a child in my name , baptizeth me ; but this is both false and absurd . and besides , he that is baptized , may be rather said to receive christ , than he that baptizeth , in that action . or would you make our saviour to say , he that baptizeth an infant in my name , receiveth me ? if so , i would know by what authority you take the word , receiveth , for baptizing in the first place , and in the second for something else . surely , if to baptize an infant in the name of christ , be a receiving of christ , it 's an easy thing to receive christ , especially for the priest , who pretends to baptize infants daily . but sure it is as much the duty of other christians to receive children in the name of christ , as the priests ; for the word is , whosoever shall receive this child in my name ; and therefore it cannot be meant of baptizing them , and then these scriptures prove not your argument at all . 6. you urge , that infants are members of earthly kingdoms , and i grant it ; and also i grant , that they belong to the kingdom of heaven , and so are of the universal church : but this proves not that they are disciples at all ; for the infants of heathens are members of kingdoms , and may go to heaven , and yet you think they are no disciples for all that . and if infants may in some sence be said to be god's servants , psal . 119. 91. yet this proves not that they are disciples ; for all creatures , as well sensitive , vegetative , as rational , are said to be his servants , yet all creatures are not christ's disciples . mr. taylor 's argument 8. to whom christ grants imposition of hands , to them belongs baptism : but to children christ grants imposition of hands : therefore to them belongs baptism . answer . 1. if the major proposition be taken universally , that to whomsoever christ granted imposition of hands ( or touching ) in any case , that to them belongs baptism , then the major is not true ; for he touched or put his hand upon the dead , yet baptism belongs not to the dead , luke 7. 14. if it be said , christ touched the bier , not the dead ; i answer : he touched the childrens cloaths , when he took them in his arms ; but he took the dead damsel by the hand , and said , talitha , cumi , damsel , i say unto thee , arise . mark 5. 41. thus much to the major ; now to the minor. 2. if by laying on of hands , you understand that which by christ's doctrine , heb. 6. 2. is made a standing ordinance in his church , and in order next to baptism , as is evident you do ; then i deny your minor : for that ordinance was not yet instituted , nor useful , because the end of it was not yet to be received ; for the spirit of promise was not yet given , nor as yet to be given , because jesus was not yet glorified , john 7. wherefore your misinterpretation of mat. 19. 13 , 14 , 15. is injurious to truth , and would prefer these infants to the apostles , in the reception of the first-fruits of the spirit , unless you think christ laid hands on the children , without obtaining the end or essect of the service . so then it 's clear , that this laying on of hands , or touching infants , ( for so it is expressed both by st. mark and st. luke ) cannot with any fairness be understood of that laying on of hands which follows baptism , and therefore is no proof at all for your minor. 3. the church of england does not believe that infants are fit subjects for laying on of hands , and therefore does not understand this text , mat. 19. of that laying on of hands which follows baptism ; neither does mr. taylor himself believe that confirmation belongs to infants : if otherwise , they are very unfaithful , in that they were never known to lay hands upon any one infant for confirmation , as i can hear of . but how comes it to pass that mr. taylor will baptize infants , when yet he confesses their baptism is not mentioned in the new testament , and yet not plead for their confirmation , till they be capable to own their covenant made in baptism , when yet he pretends , ( tho i dare say he believes it not ) that text , mat. 19. 13 , &c. is express for that laying on of hands which follows baptism , to be granted to christ to infants ? pag. 56. 4. mr. taylor says , that christ confirmed , or laid hands on the baptized . i shall entreat him to make this plain , for i would gladly see it well proved ; however , i am sure his doctrine orders it to be done , and that 's sufficient . what you say further here , is either what we oppose not , or what is answered elsewhere , save only your last particular , which now we shall consider . 5. their coming to christ ( say you ) is their becoming his disciples or proselites : suffer them , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to be proselites to me . if to this i should answer , with tertullian , veniant ergo dum adolescunt , &c. let them come therefore when they are grown up ; it will be thought too little , tho god knows ( how hasty soever men are to get them sprinkled ) they are slow enough to bring them to christ , when they are capable to be taught ; i will therefore answer further : do you think that when infants are brought to a priest to be sprinkled and crossed , that then they are brought to christ ? or can christians no other way bring their infants to christ ? or do no infants belong to christ , but those who are so brought ? these things will not be asserted , i think , yet let us go as far as we can by the light of the text. by this example of christ , i think the ministers of christ may lawfully pray for a blessing in behalf of all the infants of those that shall desire it ; and that it is well done in those parents that do desire the prayers of the church , or her ministers , for their infants . and this is as much as can be fairly urged from this text , as imitable for us . for the touching by our saviour's hands , may be a point too high for us , unless we will also touch the dead , &c. which ( i hope ) is not written for our example . but now if the minister will needs baptize my child , because i bring it into the congregation , and desire prayer to be made to god for his blessing upon it , he herein goes beyond the example of christ , and beyond the text , and therefore there i must leave him , his 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 notwithstanding . for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ex verbo 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , quod est advenio quoniam veniebant , est ethnicis ad judaismum , saith the learned , and i think infants cannot change their religion , nor was it fit to call an infant of a jew , a proselite when it was brought to circumcision ; and consequently as improper to call the child of a christian a proselite . however , all that can lawfully be done to proselite an infant ( if you will needs have that term used ) is but to devote them to christ by prayers for his blessing , but not a syllable for baptizing them . mr. taylor 's argument 5. if the faith of the parents entitles the children to the covenant , then it entitles them to baptism : but the faith of the parents entitles the children to the covenant : therefore the faith of the parents entitles the children to baptism . answer . 1. the consequence of the major may well be denied : for tho it should be some ways true , that the faith of the parents entitles the children to the covenant , yet it follows not , that it entitles them to the performance of , or submission to the things which they understand not , nor are able to perform . and whither would such a consequence lead us , if we should follow it ? what duty should not infants be entitled to , as well as to baptism ? but let us see whether the minor be well proved ; you quote acts. 2. and think it a clear place to prove that the faith of the parents entitles the children to the covenant . but this text says not a word to that purpose ; for peter derives the title both of parents and children from the promise of god : and builds the title of all the called of the lord , and of them that were afar off also , upon the promise of god , and not upon the faith of abraham himself . besides , the promise here is of the gifts of the holy ghost , and therefore not pertinent to infants , as i have shewed : here is therefore no proof at all of your minor. i think it were better to say , that by faith a christian knows his child has an interest in the covenant of grace , than that his faith entitles his child to it . i fear this minor is a very dangerous assertion , and that partly because the consequence of such an opinion is to shut out all infants from the covenant of grace , who have not faithful parents to entitle them to it : and in truth it seems to swell with too much boldness , and carnal presumption ; but i spare you . 2. the faith of the jews and proselites did not entitle their children to the covenant of grace ; but they themselves being incorporate into that church-state , their children , by express command from god , had a title to legal priviledges : but the covenant of grace ( for that 's it we dispute , tho you leave out the word grace in your argument ) extended to infants by god's free redemption , which he purposed for them , in christ , from the foundation of the world ; or else what shall become of the many thousands of infants of unbelievers ? 3. you can never prove , that the faith of the jaylor , or lydia either , did entitle their infants to the covenant , for you cannot prove they had any children . and it is so exceeding plain , that all that were baptized in these two families were believers , that i wonder much that you should say , that on the believing of the jaylor and lydia , the whole families were baptized . pray read acts 16. 32. to the end , and you will find that they that were baptized , were actual believers , and capable of being consolated by the apostles . mr. taylor 's argument 10. those who are capable of the kingdom of heaven , are capable of baptism : but children are capable of the kingdom of heaven : therefore children are capable of baptism . answer . 1. the major being taken universally , for all that may go to heaven , it may very well be denied ; for mr. taylor dare not deny a capacity of salvation to some of the infants of the jews , and yet mr. taylor himself does not think they are capable of baptism ; for he makes the faith of the parents necessary to the entitling them to baptism , which in this case is wanting . 2. that the greater includes the less , is not universally true ; for women have a capacity to go to heaven , yet they have no capacity to be bishops , which is less than going to heaven . infants are not capable of the lord's table , which is less than to go to heaven . indeed , this argument being admitted to be good , would bring infants to all privileges in the church-militant , as well as to baptism ; for thus a man might argue : those who are capable of all the privileges of the church triumphant , are capable of all the privileges of the church militant , ( for the greater includes the less ) : but infants are capable of all privileges in the church triumphant ; ergo , &c. and if it be unreasonable ( as you say it is ) to deny the external sign , to those to whom christ hath granted the internal grace ; pray , why are you so unreasonable , as to deny your infants the sign of the lord's table , seeing you affirm they are regenerate , and born of water and the spirit ? but if you were put to prove , that infants , whom you sprinkle , have the inward grace which entitles to baptism , you would never be able to make demonstration to your own , or any wise man's satisfaction ; for is not the inward and spiritual grace , repentance , whereby sin is forsaken , and faith , whereby the promises of god are stedfastly believed ? and what infant did you ever know thus qualified for baptism ? mr. taylor 's argument 11. all who are believers , ought to be baptized : but children are believers : therefore children ought to be baptized . answer . 1. the minor proposition , that infants are believers , is not true . and i answer in the words of dr. hammond , who saith , ( letter of resolut . p. 297. ) i shall profess to be none of those that are concerned in the question , whether infants have faith ? i freely confess to believe , that faith is so necessarily founded in vnderstanding , that they that have not vnderstanding , cannot have faith , whether actual or habitual . and dr. jer. taylor tells us expresly , whether infants have faith ? is a question to be disputed by persons , that care not how much they say , and how little they prove . thus these two pillars of the church of england explode your argument , as an egregious error . 2. and for that place , mat. 18. 5 , 6. by which you would prove infants believers , the learned of your own church expound it to a contrary sence , and take the little child that believeth , to be a true christian , that hath laid aside all worldly pride , whereby he is become abject in the sight of the world. i shall not contend with you about the proper signification of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , ( professing my self no scholar ) tho ludovicus vives useth 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for an houshold-servant . but it is sufficient to my purpose , that you dare not say infants are actual believers ; ( nay , you confess , they have not actual faith : and for imputative faith , ( if there be any such thing ) yet it can be no rule for the baptizing any body , seeing it is not revealed to whom faith is imputed ; and whilst you say , god may esteem infants as believers , another may as well say , he may esteem them as baptized also ) ; i say , your granting infants have not actual faith , you can take the word , believeth , mat. 18. 6. only by the figure called prosopopoeia , if you will needs have the child an infant of days . and if it be good arguing from hence to the baptism of infants , then you may argue as strongly for baptizing the whole creation , ( if you can tell how ) for it is said to groan , expect , and wait for the manifestation of the sons of god , and to be delivered from the bondage of corruption . rom. 8. 19. we conclude then , that it is not a figurative faith , but an actual faith , ( at least by profession ) that entitles to the reception of baptism . 3. we do not say , that god will impute unbelief to infants , but only to those that refuse to believe ; and tho we know infants are not believers , yet we do not say or think they are unbelievers , they being not capable to sin against god in that case , or any else . and unbelief presupposes a capacity in the subject , and means sufficient , to believe , and yet the creature refuses to believe . the sin of unbelief therefore being no way chargeable upon any infant , it follows by necessary consequence , that they have no capacity for faith. neither do we pretend to judg mens hearts ; for tho god has ordered faith to be a pre-requisite to baptism , yet we are only to judg of the profession of faith , not of the sincerity of it . and as it is true , as you say , that infants cannot play the hypocrite ; so it 's true , they cannot play the christian , and therefore not fit for the duties of christians , of which baptism is one . mr. taylor 's argument 12. they who are capable of the ends of baptism , may be baptized : but children are capable of the ends of baptism : therefore they may be baptized . answer . 1. if by the ends of baptism , you mean the things which concern god's mercy in the redemption of man only , then the major is denied ; but if by the ends of baptism , you mean the things required on mans part , then the minor is not true ; for mortification and vivification are the ends of baptism on man's part , of which infants are not capable ; for they cannot put off the body of the sins of the flesh , nor have they any need so to do , neither can they rise to newness of life . and tho i grant , ( and have often said it ) that we ought to devote our children to god in the best manner we can ; yet to go beyond the word of the lord under that pretence , will neither profit us , nor our children . 2. what you say here , of baptism being a seal to infants , &c. is answered before . and surely the word heathen , ( so often used by you ) as it imports sometimes an enemy to god , ( yet being of it self of no ill signification ) infants are not so to be accounted heathens ; nor doth the word , christian , as it imports a follower of christ , belong to infants . so that this is only a noise of words , to talk that our infants are not distinguished from the infants of heathens , tho i have shewed a difference between them . mr. taylor 's argument 13. whom the church of christ ever received to baptism , may still be baptized : but the church of christ hath ever received children to baptism : therefore they may be baptized . answer . 1. the minor proposition is not true , and therefore i do deny , that the church hath always received infants to baptism . and indeed you do not so much as pretend any thing from the scriptures to prove it , but , before , do honestly confess , that infant-baptism is not mentioned in the new testament ; and therefore certainly it will be impossible to prove , that the church did always receive infants to baptism . and it is also very observable , that eusebius , who wrote the history of the church for four hundred years after christ , does not so much as mention infant-baptism at all . 2. but how then does mr. taylor prove his minor ? why , his chief author to that purpose is mr. walker , in his book called , a modest plea for infant-baptism ; which book in that part has been answered by mr. de-laune , to which i refer the reader . the sum of which answer is to prove , that all mr. walker's testimonies from antiquity for infant-baptism , for the first 300 years after christ , are either invalid , or taken out of forged and spurious books . and it is more than sufficient to ballance mr. walker's and mr. taylor 's bold assertion , that the catholick church hath always received infants to baptism , by the contrary testimonies of ludovicus vives , and dr. barlow ; the first expresly saying , in old time none was brought to baptism , but he was of sufficient years to know what that mystical water meant , and to require his baptism , and that sundry times . the other tells us , there is neither precept nor practice in scripture for infant-baptism , nor any just evidence for it for about 200 years after christ . 2. you say , that for many hundreds of years the question [ about infant-baptism ] was not moved . but this is a great mistake ; for tertullian did question it , as an unwarrantable practice , in the beginning of the third century ; as is shewed by mr. tombes , and others , who have diligently enquired into the ancient customs of the church . 3. the first instance which you bring for the practice of infant-baptism in our nation , is that in king ina's time , about the year 692 ; but we can prove it was opposed by the britain bishops two hundred years before this . see fabian's chron. part 1. fol. 107. 4. you say , the deferring of baptism among the ancients , was not for their questioning infant-baptism . but sure , if they did think themselves too young to be baptized , at twenty or thirty years of age , they could with no reason think their children old enough for baptism at seven or eight days old . extremes have undone all ; they were too slow , and you are as much too quick . but the proper time for baptism is , when men attain to the new birth ; baptism is therefore rightly call'd the washing of regeneration . 5. you seem to hold , that infant-baptism was lawfully practised by god's people before christ , and even from the apostles time since christ : but i wonder by what law ; you give us none but mr. walker's book , which is very well answered by mr. de-laune , in his book entitled , truth defended . and i am sure , the best antiquity says nothing for you . mr. taylor 's argument 14. that doctrine which introduceth many vnchristian consequences , is erroneous : but the doctrine of the antipoedobaptists introduceth many vnchristian consequences : therefore the doctrine of the antipoedobaptists is erroneous . answer . 1. the minor proposition is not true ; for our doctrine in the case of baptism is true , and truth does not introduce any erronious consequences . now that our doctrine is true , appears thus : because it fully agrees with your text , mat. 28. 19. even as it is expounded by your self , in these words , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , going to disciple all nations , instruct them in the principles of my religion ; and then , being disciples , baptize them . this you say , and this we say ; the only difference is , we do as we say , but you say and do not : you therefore must needs be in the error in this case . 2. but let us hear what you have against our doctrine . first , you say , it opposeth the whole current of scripture , nullifies many scripture-promises and privileges , and destroys the covenant of grace , as the premised pages manifest . but i hope the premised answers do manifest the charge which you bring against our doctrine to be very unjust . and seeing you are the men , and not we , that have changed the ordinance of baptism , you may justly fear the censure of the prophet , isa . 24. 5. for breaking the everlasting covenant . see the place , and consider it seriously . 3. you say , our doctrine introduceth the world into gentilism or heathenism , and makes christ's church always gathering , and never gathered . but how can you say this , seeing we are for the teaching or discipling all nations , and every person in the nations , as they are capable , and god gives his ministers opportunity ; and we take the same way to do this which the apostles used ; according to our ability ; i. e. to preach the gospel to every one that will hear us , and to bring up our children in the nurture and admonition of the lord ? and what tho the church be thus always gathering , does not mat. 28. 19 , 20. warrant this practice to the end of the world ? and if you do not thus gather your children to christ , they will never be christians by your crossing and sprinkling them . 4. your talk of excluding infants from the covenant , is answered before , and proved untrue ; what you add , of our introducing of despair of the salvation of infants , shews your self-contradiction . for now you seem to make infant-baptism so necessary to salvation , that if they be not baptized , we must despair of their salvation : than which what can be a more erronious consequence of your doctrine of poedo-baptism ? 5. it is apparent that our doctrine makes the covenant established by christ better than yours ( whatever you say here to the contrary ) ; not only because we assert the grace of god in the business of salvation to extend to infants more generally than you do : but also for that it shews , god has not imposed any ceremonies upon them , as he did upon the jewish male infants of eight days old . whilst your doctrine makes your crossing and sprinkling them of such importance , as that if it be denied them , despair of the salvation of infants is genuinely introduced , pag. 74. as if god had tyed the salvation of all the infants in the world to a ceremony . thus does your doctrine make the covenant established by christ , worse than the law of moses ; for under it the greater part of the infants of the jews were saved , without being circumcised , to wit , all the females , and all the males under eight days old : but you have no hope for infants male or female , tho but of a day old , if it be not sealed with your pretended baptism . lord , whither will men go when they forsake thy word ! they will make christ an impostor , if infants be not capable of baptism : see mr. taylor 's book , pag. 72. n. 5. 6. you say , our doctrine equals the children of christians with the children of turks , &c. but we have shewed the advantage to be on the part of the children of christians . and what if god , willing to magnify his mercy and goodness , has provided a saviour for the innocent babes ( dying in infancy ) throughout the world ? what need this trouble any body ? must our eye be evil , because his is thus bountiful ? we know that he hath concluded all under sin , that he might have mercy upon all . and if god hath not mercy on poor dying infants , so as to save them all by christ , pray shew what mercy he hath upon them ? sure it had been a mercy they had never been born , but not one iota of mercy to be born , only to cry , dye , and go to hell. can you think that such doctrine befriends the covenant of grace ? i think not . 7. to what you say ( or have said ) about the form of baptism , you much mistake us if you think we do not baptize in the name of the father , son , and holy ghost . the article of our faith , which you point to , was not written ( as i conceive ) to teach any to dispense baptism in different forms of words , but to shew that the name of son is to be taken , as he is our lord and saviour . yet let me tell you , that i can shew it under the hand of some now in your ministry , that says matth. 28. 19. does not impower any to use that form of words in baptism , and shews also that the learned are not agreed in that matter . however , i am one with you , as to the use of the form there set down , and no other . of the manner of using baptismal water . 1. mr. taylor grants , the mode of baptizing is laid down by our saviour , and expressed in the word baptizontes , baptizing them , mat. 28. 19. now this is very well , and i am glad he has done this holy ordinance so much right , as to acknowledg christ to lay down ( in his commission mat. 28. 19. ) the manner or mode in which it ought to be performed . but then , i am sorry to see my good friend so soon forget himself , as in the very next page to tell us , that the mode of baptizing is an indifferent thing ; left to the prudence of the church , whether to dip or sprinkle . neither of them being commanded , nor either of them absolutely forbidden by the precept of baptizing . what shall i say to this ? if baptizontes be the precept for baptizing , and yet commands nothing , neither to dip nor to sprinkle , nor absolutely forbids either , sure then we keep no command in doing either , nor do we break any in omitting both . pity it is , that men to uphold their own tradition , should thus fight against both scripture and reason . for , if our saviour , by the words baptizing them , command nothing , then its best to do nothing ; if he command both dipping and sprinkling , then both must be done ; if he command but one of these , then but one of them must be done : let him chuse which he will , he must chuse but one . but yet he tells us otherwise , pag. 76. for saith he , the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 equally admits of both significations , as is granted by the best criticks : and quotes chiefly mr. walker's doct. of bapt. p. 60. to p. 64. for answer , i say , if the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 do equally signify dip and sprinkle , then unless we will be unequal we must do both ; or else shew which of them may lawfully be omitted . as for mr. walker's book , i have seen it , and observed that he plays with the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , till he makes their signification altogether uncertain , and sets the learned together by the ears about the meaning of these greek words . and indeed , according to mr. walker , no man can certainly know when he hits right upon the thing to be done in obedience to this precept , baptizing them . as if our lord should leave his apostles , and they leave us to guess at his meaning ; in a passage wherein he commands nothing certainly . and yet to go round again , however we use water in the name , &c. we can hardly go besides the meaning of christ : for if we dip the subject in the element of water , we are right ; if we sprinkle it upon any part of the body , ( for you can assign no one part more than the other ) we are right still ; if we dip the head only , or only the foot , we are right ; if the head , or breast , or hand only be sprinkled , still we are right . now who can think , that our saviour should use an ambiguous word , which is to guide us in matter of fact ? do not men that thus deal with the word baptize , make him the author of all our contests in this case ? and assuredly mr. walker has run many a one into a maze , about the meaning of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and i am sorry to see mr. taylor to follow him . but sith he refers me also to mr. leigh's crit. sac. he shall do well to mark what he saith ( even as quoted by mr. walker , p. 36. ) the reason ( says he ) why 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is put pro lotione & mundatione , is , because such as are immersed ( that is , dipped ) come out of the water washed or cleansed . so then , to baptize , is to dip the subject in the element in the name , &c. and that which is no small , but a most importent confirmation of that mode ( and only that ) is the baptism of christ's own person ; for mr. walker cannot deny , that the greek in mark 1. 9. being rightly rendred in english , is thus read ; jesus came — and was baptized of john into jordan , and therefore he may be confident he was not sprinkled , for it would be nonsence to say he was sprinkled into jordan ; but good sence and plain truth too , to say he was dipped into jordan . and yet for all this , mr. walker fights stoutly both against truth and reason , leaning only upon the single authority of bernard , and will have sprinkling to be meant or signified by the word baptize , as well as dipping . and mr. taylor says the same , tho many learned writers contradict them both . but it shall suffice here to set down two , both equal in learning and vertue to these our present opposites . the first shall be that truly famous man , dr. jer. taylor , in his rule of conscience , l. 3. c. 4. if you would attend to the signification of the word , baptism signifies plunging in water , or dipping with washing . and saith keckerman , immersion not aspersion ( that is , dipping not sprinkling ) was the first institution of baptism , as it doth plainly appear from rom. 6. 3. syst . theol. but for all this , mr. walker pretends antiquity for sprinkling , and it is strange to see what learned men will say , when they are set to defend error . we will but touch two of his most ancient instances , that you may see the bottom of the business . 1. he goes as high as the second century , and takes an instance of sprinkling from the service of the daemons ( that is , devil-gods ) but why so ? because he supposes the heathen used sprinkling in the service of their daemons , in imitation of the christians practice . but the truth is , it 's more to be feared , that unwary christians did fall to imitate the heathens ; for we are told so in effect , even by a learned popish author , which for the plainness of the testimony , i will here faithfully transcribe . he saith , — this chief chair of the church being translated from antioch to rome : he [ peter ] and his successors , were very careful and vigilent to reduce the christian religion ( being as yet indigested , unpolished , and little practised ) and the professors thereof , into better order and vniformity , out of the law of moses ( which christ came not to abolish , but to fulfil ) out of the civil and politick government of romans , greeks and egyptians , and out of both sacred and prophane rites , laws , and ceremonies of other nations , but most especially by the wholsom doctrine and direction of christ jesus , and the inspiration of the holy spirit . see a book called , the manners , laws and customs of all nations , pag. 151. behold here the springs of human inventions and ceremonies . mr. walker's second instance , is a story of one sprinkled with sand , instead of water ( the water being scarce , and the party like to dye ) : but alas they could not dip the sick into the sand , and however their zeal may be commended , their action is not to be commended at all : it shews their folly , for it 's better to be without a ceremony , when we cannot possibly have it in god's way , than to set up our own devices in the stead , and place , and use of it . for i will ( saith god ) have mercy and not sacrifice . and thus we shall leave mr. walker to consider his sandy foundation for his sprinkling infants . 2. mr. taylor says , sprinkling cannot nullify baptism , and therefore our dissenting brethren are to blame , to make our baptism to be essentially corrupted , and not to be accounted baptism , because not performed by dipping . to this i answer ; when our saviour commanded to baptize , he commanded but one , not divers kinds of actions ; and to do that , which is not only contrary to his own blessed example in this very thing , but also such an act as cannot with any equity of speech , or good sence , be called baptism , is to err essentially in the performance of it . and so great is the difference between dipping and sprinkling , that such as sprinkle infants dare not speak as they act , when they pretend to baptize : no , they dare not say , i sprinkle thee in the name of the father , &c. which they might well say , if the word baptize does equally signify dipping and sprinkling . we are not therefore to blame , to labour to have this ordinance kept as it was delivered , for sure if it be our duty to keep god's ordinances , it 's our duty to keep them as they were observed by christ , and the primitive churches . and so far as the manner of doing this command of christ is essential to the ordinance , dipping is of the essence of it , without which it cannot be called baptism . again , all the scriptures which command to baptize , do expresly command to dip the party to be baptized , and therefore mr. taylor is to blame , to say , there is not one place of scripture which in express words commands dipping , pag. 59. yea , sir , your text , matth. 28. 19. commands dipping : for were 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 translated into plain english , it must be rendred by dipping . and i pray sir , consider , whether you could not with a good conscience translate it so ? and on the other side , whether your conscience would not accuse you , should you translate the text , teach all nations , sprinkling them ? i dare say no man dare thus read the text. why then do they thus act ? shall we speak one thing , and do another ? so speak ye , and so do ye , as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty ; to wit , the gospel . 3. what you urge from the legal washings , has been answered by the learned of our way , and particularly by mr. danvers , who says , i have carefully examined all the places in the old testament , where the word dipping or baptizing is mentioned , and do find it is expressed by the hebrew word , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , as minceus and dr. hammond observe . the septuagint do render the word tabal in the hebrew , by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and with all the translators , both the latin , dutch , italian , french , and english , do translate to dip ; the word rendred washing , being another word , as the following scriptures inform you , gen. 37. 31. exod. 12. 22. lev. 4. 6. & 17. 14. & 6. 16 , 51. levit. 9. 9. deut. 33. 24. john 3. 5. numb . 16. 18. 2 kings 5. 14. i cannot think therefore , that you can conscionably parallel rom. 6. 3 , 4. col. 2. 11. with the jewish washings , which are expressed by the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , not the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ( as mr. danvers further shews . ) and sure i am , that rom. 6. and col. 2. is so very clear for our way of baptizing , that the learned of your way do grant these places allude to the ancient way of baptizing , which ( say they ) was by dipping the party into the water . 4. what you say of your sprinkling to be as significant as dipping , is not true ; for indeed unless it be commanded to signify the death , burial , resurrection of christ , and our mortification and vivification , it can signify none of these things . otherwise every time you wash your hands , might signify what is signified in your baptism ; yet you will not say it doth so . and the same answer may serve to what you say , of sprinkling and dipping , being equally obliging ; for unless god hath given them to oblige , they have no obliging nature or virtue in them . 5. what you say of the searcity of water , can be no plea for you that have no want of it , whatever it may be for them that have it not . but sure , where god gives not straw , he will require no brick . he does not make baptism so necessary , that we shall perish if we cannot , but rather if we will not obey him therein . 6. your surmise , that dipping seems an indecent thing , is indecently said , both by mr. walker , and your self , seeing it may be done as decently as your sprinkling ; for your talk of transparent garments , shews your unacquaintedness with the right way of baptizing . and know this , your ruffling ladies in their gorgeous apparel , may work upon your pravity of heart sooner , than to behold and humble penitent sinner , cloathed in comely , tho mean garments , to be buried with christ by baptism . 7. to your objection about the coldness of the climate , you need but put on the garment of love to god and his truth , and act from a principle of faith , and you need fear no ill , tho this path may seem to you as the valley of the shadow of death . yet if any person be really weak of body , and cannot be satisfied to delay , ( as i confess that may be dangerous ) there may such care be taken , as in the eye of reason no inconvenience need be feared . and if the water be frozen , ( as you object ) surely he that will allow us to thaw that for our natural , will not blame us , if we do so for our spiritual use . 8. does plunging or dipping take away the understanding ? why , not more now than in christ's time. and is it so necessary that the understanding act in the duty ? i marvel then why you baptize persons ( as you call it ) when they are asleep . 9. what you say of the great labour of dipping , and the impossibility for one man to baptize 3000 in one day , and that it is therefore unreasonable to think the apostles did dip all that they baptized , &c. i answer ; first , you grant then , that they dipped some that they baptized ; prove now that they sprinkled so much as one , and the dispute is at an end . secondly , but sir , what need was there for one man only to baptize the three thousand ? acts 2. 40. does not mr. walker himself suppose , that there were of the hundred and twenty disciples , eighty two in a ministerial capacity , to wit , the seventy two , besides the apostles ? surely they might easily baptize three thousand in a few hours . but you will now prove the lawfulness and reasonableness of sprinkling ; let us hear what you say . 1. you now make sprinkling not only equally signified in the word , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , but to be more congruous with its genuine signification ; your reason is , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 being a derivative , can admit of no larger signification than its primitive 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which we find ( say you ) in the history of nebuchadnezzar , when like a beast , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , he was wet with the dew of heaven . but for answer ; 1. i say , this place in dan. 4. will never prove , that sprinkling is more congruous to the genuine signification of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , than dipping : for nebuchadnezzar being seven years to live with beasts , out of habitation or house , was sufficiently washed , especially being probably naked too ; so that this kind of wetting holds some resemblance with plunging in water , there being no part free from the water thus rained upon nebuchadnezzar : in which respect , it seems , the septuagint renders or expresses his lying open to the snow , hail , rain , or dew , so long a time , by the word , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . and , 2. my answer is , that the greek here is hyperbolical , and not properly to be understood ; and our translators knowing this , did not ( as i suppose ) translate the word according to its proper signification , our language not well bearing it in that case , but according to the thing which was to befall nebuchadnezzar . and it seems very disingenuous , for you to conclude from this hyperbole , that sprinkling is more congruous to the signification of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , than dipping , tho in so saying you contradict most of the learned that have interpreted the word , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . and i am sure , ( and you know it much better than i can tell you , for my learning is nothing , when compared with yours , ) that our lexicons , dictionaries , and grammars , do make the prime signification of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to be a dipping , as they do who dye colours ; and scapula does not make 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , nor 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , to signify sprinkling at all . 2. what you say in your 2d , 3d , 4th , and 5th . particulars , is answered before ; but here you say , the church was never confined to that mode of dipping , but had several ways of baptizing , dipping , or sprinkling , &c. i answer : what usages the church has had , is not the question ; but the ground of her doings is the matter of our enquiry : but yet i will venture to say , she was always confined to dip , if she kept that ordinance according to christ's own example , which i think is a better expositor of the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , than any lexicon in the world. 2. the alteration of the manner of this ordinance , has not only occasioned us to say , you that only cross and sprinkle are not baptized ; but the muscovites declare the latin church to be unbaptized for the same reason . for this you may read daille on the fathers , lib. 2. p. 148. where he tells us ; the custom of the ancient church was to plunge those they baptized over head and ears in water , as tertullian , cyprian , and epiphanius testify . and this is still the practice of the greek and russian cnurch at this day , as cassander de baptismo , pag. 193. and yet notwithstanding this custom is now abolished by the church of rome ; and this is the reason why the muscovites say that the latines are not rightly and duly baptized . thus he . nor is this the only cause why we think your pretended baptism a nullity , for your error about the subject is more than the other . 3. what you say further is , to make us believe that christ did not go into the water ; that the eunuch went to the water only , because the preposition 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signifies ad , to . but your conscience will tell you , it signifies into , as well as to ; and indeed you grant it : and then to what putpose do you quarrel our translation ? however , we have proved that christ was baptized in the river : and 't is expresly said of the many thousands which came to jordan , that they were all baptized in the river , confessing their sins . now , sir , here 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , cannot be rendred to the river , nor with the river , ( without egregious folly ) and then 't is very plain , that they were all dipped in the river ; for it had been absolute folly to go into the river to sprinkle the face , hand , or any other part of the body . seeing then they went into the river to baptize , it shews it cannot rightly be done without going into the water : and therefore of necessity we must understand , dipping is the only true mode of baptizing . 4. i marvel how any wise man can look upon that text , john 3. 23. john baptized in enon , — because there was much water there , and so much as think sprinkling to be a lawful way of baptizing . if he will use any of his wit , he cannot but infer , baptism could not be rightly done with a few drops of water , seein john chose enon , because there was much water there . and what tho 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signify many waters ? yet it does not signify many rivers ; but by the noise of many waters , is often meant the noise of much water in one source or channel . however , you say , the greek signifies the confluence of these two springs , jordan and jaboc ; but yet you are unwilling that they should yield so much water as might suffice to dip in . and yet the scripture tells you elsewhere , that jordan overflows all her banks at certain times ; and lithgow , that was at it , will give you an account , that it is a river sufficient to dip a bigger man than your self in . but here , you say , is no mention of dipping . yes , sir , but there is ; for when you hear , that john was baptizing in enon , he was either dipping or sprinkling . the latter would make the speech absurd and nonsensical ; the former therefore was his business , for he was dipping in enon , near salem , because there was much water there . your church therefore is very much to blame , in leaving the way of truth , and following her own tradition , and is therefore the cause of our present disunion , and will be till she turn to the truth , both in the subject and manner of baptism , or at least forbear to impose upon us without authority from heaven . what you add , by way of answer to some of our objections against infant baptism , is answered in my reply to dr. stillingfleet , and mr. j. barret , which is bound up with my book of primitive christianity , and to that i will refer you . what you add about sureties or god-fathers , &c. i shall not take notice of at this time , and indeed the usage is so odd , that dr. jer. taylor well said , if it had been god's will to have had them , it is to be supposed he would have given them commission to have transacted the solemnity with better circumstances , and given answers with more truth ; for if the god fathers answer in the name of the child ( i do believe ) it is notorious , they speak false and ridiculously . and this is even enough to say to such an innovation : but what absurdity is it , which being once made a cannon by learned men , will not find some to daub it up with untempered mortar ? could men but remember nadab and abihu , lev. 10. they would fear to add to , or take from the ordinances of christ , under what pretence of piety or prudence soever . thus sir , i have briefly answered your arguments , and hope i have not mistaken your sence in any passage i except against . and for a conclusion , i crave leave to say , that the way to obtain that unity which is so desirable , between the baptized believers and the church of england , is not to fall to it by disputation , but by proposing what abatements may be made about such things as are not mentioned in the scripture , ( as this of poedo-baptism ) is not ) or at least what mitigation may be hoped for , as to the imposition of such things : and on the other side , i trust in the lord that you shall call for nothing from us , wherein we may submit without sinning against god , but we shall gladly hearken to you . in the mean time , constant prayer to god for the blessing of truth and peace , and friendly conference between the leading men on both parts , may do much to further so good a work , specially if his majesty would be graciously pleased to permit such friendly treaties . but of writing many books there is no end . sect . iv. a plea for the church-assemblies of the baptized believers . many and very great has been the sufferings of the baptized believers in this nation , since the publication of the act , entitled , an act to prevent and suppress seditious conventicles . and if the meaning of the said act be to restrict all christian assemblies , ( except the parochial ) to the number of four persons , besides the families where they do assemble , we see not how we can , with safety to our souls , conform to the limits thereby prescribed . but forasmuch as the said act pretends only the prevention and suppression of seditious conventicles , we humbly conceive , that those who are free from seditious designs in their meeting together to worship god , are rationally acquitted from the imputation of sedition ; and consequently no man can conscienciously prosecute any of us upon that statute , being utterly unable to prove any such crime against us ; nor could any ever yet convict us of such an evil , nor , by the grace of god , shall they ( i hope ) ever be able to do it . upon a due enquiry it will evidently appear , that it is the lord himself that hath ordered his people to convene or congregate , for the better discharge of the great duties of prayer , preaching , and the celebration of other his holy ordinances ; to which holy ends he has allowed , not four persons only , but the whole church , in any town or city , to come together into one place , among whom also such as do not believe the gospel , are allowed to appear , in order to their illumination , and this without any limitation in respect of number : so that it seems to exceed the due bounds of humane power , to use restraint , where god hath given such gracious liberty . 1 cor. 14. 23 , 24 , 25. jam. 2. 2 , 3. heb. 10. 24. forasmuch then as god has not given any power upon earth , to forbid any christian , or such as desire to know christ , to hear his word at any time , or in any place ; but on the contrary , commands every man that hath an ear , to hear what the spirit saith unto the churches , rev. 2. 7. saying , to day if ye will hear his voice , harden not your hearts , psal . 95. 7. proclaiming to every one that thirsteth , to come and take of the waters of life freely : isa . 55. 1. to whose gracious invitation the spirit and the bride ( the church ) agreeth , saying , come , rev. 22. 17. it must needs be very dangerous for any man to say , do not come , when they desire to drink of these living waters , which flow in the lively preaching of the gospel of christ . and how can we think that our gracious god , who in things pertaining to this life , will not allow us to say to our neighbour , go away , and come again to morrow , and i will give , when we have it by us , prov. 3. 27 , 28. will ever accept us with a well-done , good and faithful servant , if in the more weighty matters of his law we put men off with delatory answers ? behold , now is the accepted time ; behold , now is the day of salvation . it must be granted , that the church is the light of the world , a city set upon a hill , that cannot be hid ; whilst therefore we are conscionably , and ( we trust ) groundedly persuaded , that we are a part of this church , a necessity lieth upon us , to make manifest the savour of the knowledg of christ in every place . for as it was truly said to christ , that no man doth any thing in secret , and himself desires to be known openly : so neither must the church of christ obscure her light by a secret profession of christianity , lest she contradict her own prayer , and the practice of the primitive churches , held forth in these words : god be merciful to us , and bless us , and cause his face to shine upon us , that his way may be known upon the earth , and his saving-health among all nations . and now , lord , behold their threatnings , and grant unto thy servants , that with all boldness they may speak thy word . — and they spake the word with boldness . — and they overcame him by the blood of the lamb , by the word of their testimony ; and they loved not their lives unto the death . — and became followers of the churches of god , having received the word in much affliction , with joy of the holy-ghost . and if for the like faithful testimony we must still suffer , as we have done , we shall rejoyce , as christ hath exhorted us . the church is taught of god to hold fast , not her faith only , but also the profession of her faith ; and this not by starts and girds , as men give them license or toleration , but with all constancy , and without wavering . and surely our lord foreseeing , and by his apostles foreshewing what would come to pass , required that this profession be held without wavering in the business of church-assembling , heb. 10. 25. because without such assemblies , the whole service of god ( in a church-way ) is like to fall to the ground . this duty , as it is of greatest importance , so it is founded upon heavens authority : forsake not the assembling of your selves together . and it is granted by the learned protestants , that against the law of god or nature no contrary custom doth ever prevail . [ dr. field of the church , lib. 4. ] he that doth any thing by command from the king , contrary to the command of god , does not fear god , ( saith dr. savage , chaplain to k. charles ii , in his dew of hermon , p. 36 , to 39. ) and , speaking of the first preachers of the gospel , he saith , their rulers enjoined them not to preach christ , and therein they did well to disobey ; for otherwise they had not feared god , inasmuch as tho their rulers were above them , yet god was above them both . — for in commanding any thing contrary to the word and will of god , they abuse their power , either through their ignorance or wilfulness ; and in that case meerly passive obedience is to be yielded . these latter sentences are the more remarkable , being written by one of his majesties chaplains , in answer to a book written by the baptized believers in this age , entitled , sion's groans for her distressed ; which book , whilst he pretends to confute , he has confirmed it , in the main scope and intent of it . as it is impossible , by mulcts and penalties to overcome the faithful professors of the truth , ( for that which is of god , men cannot overthrow , acts 5. 39. ) so neither will those that are zealous for error , be vanquished by that way . and the mischief is , their errors are by their sufferings made the more taking with those of weak judgments . what then is the result of persecution for religion ? is it not commonly this , that the hypocrites or time-servers do fill that church which has the power of the magistrate on her side ? and suppose she have the truth on her side , yet those temporizers come not to her communion for the truths sake , and therefore cannot be a blessing to her , nor she to them ; nay , these shall , the soonest of all others , betray her , when ever time shall minister occasion ; for those who are not true to god , and their own conscience , will never be faithful to men. they worship not the king of heaven , but the earthly crown and scepter , much like euripus , carried headlong sometimes this way , sometimes that way . socrat. lib. 3. cap. 21. but , shortly , to sum up what is or might be further said in this case . 1. to restrict our assemblies to the limits of the said act , is to obey man rather than god , who gives liberty , without limiting the numbers of those that meet , to worship him in a church-way . and whilst we believe our assemblies are true churches , we must endeavour to meet in god's way , whoever countermands it . 2. for thus to limit our assemblies to the number of four ; will certainly destroy all our church-assemblies : for , suppose some congregation or church consist but of an hundred persons , these being divided into fours , have no church-assembly , unless every of these four be a church . and if the magistrate have just power to divide us into fours or fives , he has power to subdivide us into two's , and by consequence to dissolve all our assemblies . i confess , a small number may constitute a true church . gregory thaumaturgus , tho a bishop , had a church consisting but of seventeen persons . [ basil . de spirit . sanct. cap. 29. ] our saviour has promised his presence , where two or three are met together in his name . but then in his name , signifieth in his authority , and according to his appointment . now christ has no where appointed , that four , and no more , should come together into one house or place ; no , tho an hundred persons be come together , if more do come , they cannot be prohibited by all that power which god has given to man , as we have shewed . 3. our zealous country-men of the parochial way , would think it very unlawful to be limited in their meetings to fours or fives ; and yet they ought to be restrain'd from seditious practices as well as others ; and we do by as good right think it unlawful for us to be so restrained . we hope our legislators did not intend at all to exalt their authority against the lord , whose power is above all . but yet when these laws come to be executed upon good men , by the industry of mercenary fellows , meerly for worshipping god , then are they turned into snares to the ruin of the innocent , and dishonour of that power which gave them being . and all this falls out , for want of better provision in the said laws , to convict men of sedition , than only because they were observ'd to preach or pray . 4. wherefore , being fully satisfied that our assemblies are true church-assemblies , and that upon the strictest enquiry we are able to make into the due nature and order of such assemblies , we conceive our selves indispensibly bound by the word of god , the examples of the first and best churches , and the tie of conscience , as regulated by a sincere love of religion , to hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering or changing , by reason of the change of times , or man's laws . being also rationally persuaded , that the more publick and free men are to serve the lord , the less danger of sedition . wherefore , with innocent hearts , and pure hands , ( as to any design of sedition ) in the strength of christ , we will keep his way , and let the lord do with us as seemeth him good . sect . v. of the baptized believers call to christianity , and to the work of the ministry . when our saviour commanded his apostles to teach all nations , and to preach the gospel to every creature , we do not doubt but their performance of this his gracious will , may truly be said to be the calling of the gentiles , or nations : and that men enjoy a great mercy ( for which they ought to be very thankful ) to be born in a nation to whom the gospel has been preached , and received by their progenitors : and that it is also a great blessing to be born under the government of christian princes ; and we believe we ought to love and honour our nation , and the rulers of it , upon this very account ( as well as for the obligation of nature and laws ) viz. because they assert the interest of christ jesus in general as well as we . nor is it our business to destroy the state of christianity received in any nation ; nor at all to despise the ministry that conscientiously upholds it ( but only to labour that christianity may be delivered from the errors that have encumbred it , by reason of the change of governments and interests , or corruptions of the ages past . ) and in this consideration , as we look upon our nation to be a christian nation ; so we count our selves much more happy in being members of a nation that owns the true god , christ jesus to be the saviour of the world , the scriptures to be holy and true , and that faith and holiness is the way to true blessedness , than to have been of any other nation whatsoever . but yet for all this there is a great truth in the words of tertullian , i. e. we are not born , but made christians . and therefore , we do not think that our meer birth of christian parents does qualify us , or give us an actual right to christ's ordinances ; but to this end we believe , and know , that every person ought to have the gospel preached , or some way made known to them , and that a work of real grace ( or the new birth ) at least by a solemn profession , must precede our baptismal covenant ; to this the scriptures give full consent , john 1. 12 , 13. 2 cor. 5. 17. eph. 2. 10. 1 pet. 1. 23. and thus we , and ours ( so many of them as the lord our god does call by the preaching of the gospel ) are actually incorporate with the church of christ militant , and engaged thenceforth in the high and holy calling , and actual profession of the christian religion . 2. but now , whether we have any lawful call to the work of the ministry , is the business to be a little considered , partly , for that some of our late persecutors were pleased to suggest the contrary ; and partly to put our selves upon the strictest trial , even in this case where we are supposed to be the most deficient . the questions in this case to be resolved , are , 1. whether a succession of ordination from man to man , down from some of the apostles , be absolutely necessary to a due call to the ministry ? or , 2. whether the same means that is of authority sufficient to make men christians , be not also sufficient to make ministers ? in answer to these questions , we shall do little more than offer what we have formerly written upon this subject . and tho the papists are the men who stand most stifly for succession , as necessary , yet of late we find our friends of the church of england looking that way , as if they would justify their ordination in a successive line from man to man , through the papacy : which thing is disclaimed by dr. luther , with the greatest vehemency , in these words . whoso loveth christ , ought to endure any thing , rather than to be ordained by the papists ; because in their ordinations all things are carried with such wicked preposterousness , that if they were not mad , and blind , they would perceive how they mock god to his face ; — being stricken with an universal blindness , they do not so much as know the word of god , specially the bishops who ordain . — let me be counted a fool , a knave , a lyer , if there be any one of them , ordain'd by them , who dare say , that at such time as he received orders , he was commanded to dispense the mysteries of christ , or to teach the gospel , — but they ordain sacrificers of the unbloody sacrifice of the mass , and to hear confessions , &c. thus far luther . and the oath which they take at their ordination ( as set down by mr. bullinger ) is very un-gospel-like , the sum of it is in these words , that the priest will be a true subject to the pope , obey the decrees of the fathers , and of the church ( i. e. the roman church ) and that he will persecute hereticks . beza censures all ordination taken from the papists . let us hear him speak . what ordinary vocation is that which you say the first reformers had , excepting some few of them , is it not the pall ? shall we think then , that the popish orders are valid , in which there is not any preceding enquiry into manners ? no such enquiry or procedure , as is inviolably to be made , or observed , by divine right in elections , and ordinations , — shall we think so highly of their ordinations , that as often as any false bishops are converted to true christianity , immediately all the filth , uncleanness , and impurity , collated , is washed away ? nay , but with what face or conscience will he be able to forsake popery , and not abjure his irregular ordination ? or if he do abjure it , how can he by virtue thereof claim authority to teach ? thus these two pillars of the protestant reformation , are so far from deriving their call to the ministry , through the papacy ( as some late protestants pretend to do ) that they do utterly reject any ordination which comes from them . nor was luther and beza ordained after they came from the papists . ( mr. stub's occas . quaer . ) but beza is said to defend his call to the ministry , by instances of those that were called extraordinarily , as isaiah , daniel , amos , zecharias , &c. these things premised , we may assume , that either of these ways ( as approved by our reformers respectively ) could we go to defend our call to the ministry , as well as they : being first , many of us , ordained by those who received ordination from you , and some may run with you to bishop cranmer , who was ordained by the papacy ; and then proceed , till we come up to clemens , or lucius , and so to st. peter . and as for the pretence of beza , or luther , about their extraordinary call , it 's not impossible for us to give as fair a demonstration of it , as either of them , ( specially if we take the rules given by mr. beza , to judg of such a call by , to be cogent , viz. good life , sound doctrine , and the election of the people . ) but to be plain , we do not very well like either of these ways . not the first , it is so sordid , as that the papists themselves in deriving their call through the papacy , are forced to take it from so many false pretended popes , or diabolical popes , even witches and devils incarnate ( by their own confession ) that they make but a lamentable succession of it in the end . and especially , if stapleton may be regarded ( tho a papist ) who tells us , that it is not a bare and personal succession , but lawful succession , which is a note of a true church ; and defineth that to be lawful succession , when not only the latter succeeds into the void rooms of those that went before them , being lawfully called thereunto , but also hold the faith which their predecessors did . now let this rule be honestly stood by , and we are sure the papists shall never be able to prove a succession of many points of their faith , and doctrines from the apostles , whilst the world stands , and consequently neither can the protestants derive a lawful succession from them . we like not the second way , for we will not compare with isaiah , daniel , amos , nor zechariah , in respect of their immediate mission . but this we say , that our call to the ministry is no otherwise extraordinary , than our call to believe the gospel is so ; or , as it stands clear from all the idle ceremonies used by papists , or others in their ordinations , or as it is ordered ( as near as we can ) according to the word of god. and is the sacred word of power to beget us to god , and by the assistance of his spirit to make us his children , or christians ? and is it not of power or authority sufficient to enable us to worship god in his own ordinances , which were made for christians , and not christians for them ? this seems justly ridiculous . we make no doubt but that it 's easy with god ( and no extraordinary thing ) to raise a people to himself , in a nation where all have corrupted the way of christianity , ( or lost the state and praise of a true church ) meerly through his blessing upon the reading and diligent searching of the scriptures , ( i speak of a nation where the scriptures are received , as that is our case . ) the truth is , all the ways of god's worship , are ( in the word ) made ready for us , and laid at our doors , and we do but take up gladly , what others let lie as useless things , that they may hug their own devices . but now to silence a papist for ever ( which some will think to be a difficult undertaking ) ; do they not allow ( even by the pen of the learned bellarmine , chap. 7. ) that even an heathen , that is not baptized , may administer baptism in case of necessity ? and this they esteem a valid baptism . and why then may not we , when god hath opened our eyes to see any other truth , as well as that , enter upon the dutiful observance of it in the best way we can , our circumstances ( especially the case of necessity ) being considered ? for is not necessity as good a warrant to take up the practice of , or to restore one truth as well as another ? certainly , one ordinance is as sacred as another , and where churches are setled , ought to be dispensed in the most honourable way , and by the most fit instruments , even christ's ministers . wherefore , till the papists shall recal their opinion about baptism , and prove a succession as necessary to baptism as ordination , they can with no shew of reason , insist upon the necessity of ordination to be founded upon succession . but further , it 's evident from the scriptures , ( acts 13. ) that a succession is not necessary to true ordination ; for tho the apostles were yet living , it was not thought necessary that they should impose hands upon barnabas and paul : but this is done by gifted men , or the prophets that were in the church at antioch . the only question here to be resolved is , whether this laying on of hands was for ordination ? the papists do hold it was ; some protestants deny it ; but some protestants do affirm it . mr. churchman , in his history of episcopacy , tells out of chrysostom , that tho paul was an apostle neither of men , nor by men , yet as for the work to which he was separated , ask the said father ( saith he ) and he will tell you , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , that it was the office of an apostle , and that he was ordained an apostle here , that he might preach the gospel with greater pewer , — and certainly that he had not the apostleship before , may be made manifest by that which followed after . but tho some protestants doubt whether this were paul's ordination ( tho the matter is clear of it self ) yet here is the ordination of barnabas without all question ; and then it is evident that there was an interruption of succession in the case of ordination , even in the apostles days , and therefore by no means to be held to be necessary in our days , who are so far removed from the times of the holy apostles , that in vain do men think to find a clear and undoubted succession , of any one ordinance from them . wherefore we may safely conclude , that where the truth of the gospel is received , with the gifts of god's spirit ( as that was the case at antioch ) there is a sufficiency of power on the persons so gifted , with the advice of the church to send forth , or appoint men to the work of the ministry ; altho 't is true , this course is most warrantable in the case of necessity , and in no wise to be done in contempt or wilful neglect of that way , which is more ordinary and regular . howbeit , to tye all power of ordination so strictly to the persons of men ordained , by such as were ordained by the apostles themselves , would in all likelihood throw the power of ordination out of the church of god at this day ; especially if we stand upon the due election and qualification of persons so claiming succession from the apostles themselves . and because due qualifications , and election , is as necessary to a true minister of christ , as ordination , seeing it 's most certain , that unless god do first make men ministers , it 's impossible for the church ( rightly ) to make them ministers . we shall here add , that besides his moral vertues , and spiritual gifts , he that is regularly called to the ministry , must first be a true member of the church , and chosen by a true church to that sacred employment . and then we may boldly ( yet modestly ) suppose , that true ordination ( at least in some part of it ) is only found in the congregations of baptized believers at this day : for , where true baptism is not , ordination cannot be regular . again , due election is found amongst them , whilst neglected both by papists , and prelatists . and further , the true form and order of ordination is found in our churches . the first is evident of it self , no baptism , no due ordination ; is a truth without exception among all that own ordination . and for the second , 't is certain none are ordained to any office in the baptized churches , till elected by the consent of the church , or the major part , to whom they are to minister . and herein they follow the footsteps of the apostles , acts 1. when one must be chosen in the room of judas , the 120 , which was the whole assembly , allowed the choice of two : and good reason there is , that where all are equally concerned , they should all be satisfied in the choice of such , as to whom they commit the care and feeding of their souls . when the seven deacons were to be ordained , the whole church is consulted , acts 6. and the election made by them who knew the qualification of the persons . and as holy scripture , so antiquity stands with us in this case . the nicene council , writing their minds to the church at alexandria , concerning some that were to succeed other bishops , gives these directions : if so be they shall seem to be worthy , and the people shall chuse them . what rules were to be observed in respect of their worthiness for ministerial employment , may be gathered from clement , epist . ad corinth . having ( saith he ) made trial of them by the spirit , to be bishops and deacons . and again , others well approved of , should succeed into the office and ministry , who therefore have been constituted , — by famous and discreet men , with the good liking and consent of all the church , — and who withal , have of a long time had a good testimony from all men. leo gives the same direction ( epist . 84. c. 5. ) charging , that none be ordained against the wills and petitions of the people : and again , epist . 49. the custom was that he should be chosen of all , that was to be over all , and wills , that the liking of the people and their testimony be sought : that in ordinations , the rules of the apostles and fathers ought to be observed ; that he that is to be over the church , should not only have the allowance of the faithful , but the testimony also of them that are without . cyprian is as clear for us , ( ep. l. 1. ) the people who full well and perfectly know the life of him that is to be ordained bishop , are to be present , and to be chosen with their allowance , who know the conversation of every one . and he brings salinius ( his colleague ) for instance , who was chosen by the voice of the whole brotherhood , and the judgment of the bishops which came together . each church stands free ( saith dr. bilson , perpet . govern. ) by god's law to admit , maintain , and obey no man as their pastor without their liking ; and that the peoples election dependeth on humane fellowship , and first principles of humane society and assemblies . dr. field informs us , that this right of the people hath been invaded many ways : 1. by great personages and magistrates . 2. when the bishops grew to great pomp , and the clergy began to be enriched by benefices , elections were , and to this day are made according to the interests of the rich and strong , whilst the people are not only deprived of , but become ignorant , that any right remains in them to chuse their own ministers or pastors . now this privilege , tho lost in most national churches , is restored and maintained in the baptized churches , where none are elected messengers , bishops , or deacons , without the free choice of the brotherhood where such elections are made . and after such election of persons of known integrity and competent ability , we proceed to ordination , with fasting and prayer , and the laying on of hands , according to the scripture ; acts 13. 3. when they had fasted and prayed , they laid their hands on them , and sent them away . thus for the ordination of messengers , ( which after the manner of some are called bishops . ) acts 14. 23. and when they had ordained them elders in every church , and prayed with fasting , they commended them to the lord , on whom they believed . acts 6. 5 , 6. and they chose stephen , a man full of faith , and of the holy-ghost , and philip , and prochorus , and nicanor , and timon , and parmenas , and nicholas , whom they set before the apostles ; and when they had prayed , they laid their hands on them . thus for the ordination of deacons . all which apostolical practices are religiously restored and observed in the churches of the baptized believers , without any devised adjuncts of our own or others . by all which it may appear , they have a lawful call to the work of the ministry . here i meet with an objection ; 't is doubted by some , whether a man having received ordination as a presbyter , may afterward have ordination as a messenger of the churches of christ , the objector supposing that the first ordination is sufficient , only the church must give him another commission . this objection i answer three ways : 1. by antiquity . 2. by reason . 3. by scripture . 1. antiquity is directly against this objection , being rather for a threefold ordination than only one , as i shall shew by and by . but first , i marvel how the objector would give a man a ministerial commission without ordination , the church having no other way at all to give commissions but by ordination ; nor can any man tell us , how she can give her commissions ministerial , but by the very act of her ordination ; and according to the nature of her ordination , such , and no other is her commission . now our ancients understood this , and therefore did usually bring men gradually to the degree of a bishop , ( i. e. a messenger , according to the scripture , bishop , or overseer , being a name common to elders in the primitive times . ) thus chrysostom was first ordained a deacon , then a presbyter , after that he was ordained bishop of constantinople , by theophilus bishop of alexandria . and saith the learned bilson , in the primitive church they were first deacons , and upon trial , when they had ministred well , and were found blameless , they were admitted to be elders ; and after that , if their gifts and pains so deserved , they were called to an higher degree : so that every one , by the ancient discipline of christ's church , before he could come from ministring to governing in the church of god , received thrice , or at least twice , imposition of hands . 2. reason tells us , that every man that is called to the work of the ministry , ought to have a commission ( that is , an ordination ) commensurable to his ministry . it is christ's peculiar to give commission by the word of his mouth only , the church cannot do so ; she must confer ministerial authority in some solemn rite or ceremony . this is plain in the case of deacons , it was not sufficient for the apostles to say ( of persons eminently qualified ) we order or appoint them to serve tables , or , look ye to the poor : but besides their great qualifications and election , they must receive their commission or authority by prayer , with the laying on of hands , else they have no commission . in like 〈…〉 be solemnly ordained , before the holy-ghost hath made him an overseer of the particular flock committed to his charge . and then in reason , if he have a far greater charge afterward committed to him , he has need of a commission ( that is , an ordination , for other commission there is none ) to enable him to take care of many churches , and to plant new churches in the world. we read not of any messengers , that acted as such in that great trust , without an ordination agreeable to their work ; and it is ill venturing to send men out with a commission too short for their employment , it being irrational so to do , and without any good example . let us see then what the scripture will say in favour of our answers . 3. the apostles had a twofold apostleship ; the one limited to the jewish nation , mat. 10. the other of extent to all nations , mat. 28. if they were ordained to either , then they were ordained to both ; and the latter seems to be the more solemn and formal ordination , not only for that when christ had given them order what to do , he lift up his hands , and blessed them , luk. 24. 50. but also gave them order to tarry at jerusalem , until they were endowed with power from on high . when their work was particular or limited , they had a limited commission ; when their work was universal , they had an universal commission . sure the church , who hath no way to give commissions but by ordination , shall do well and wisely to follow christ , the author of all her power , when she delegates or gives it forth to any of her ministers . this answer may suffice , yet we add : barnabas is confessed to have been one of the seventy disciples , and had a divine authority from christ to preach the gospel to the jews ; but when he is sent to preach to the gentiles , he hath a new commission , even an ordination , as appears , acts 13. finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a41782-e310 psal . 90. 2. rev. 4. 10. 1 tim. 1. 17. psal . 147. 5. prov. 15. 3. notes for div a41782-e7440 i see the 35th of elizabeth . luk. 2. 22 , 23 , 24. exod. 13. 2. lev. c. 12. socrat. l 6 c. 12 , 13. this is an answer to john wiggans book, spread up and down in lancashire, cheshire and wales, who is a baptist & a monarchy-man wherein may be seen how he exalts himself, against christ the light, that doth enlighten every man : and also some of his, and his peoples erronious principles, and assertions, which he and his people held in a dispute, with some quakers ... / from the prisoners at lancaster, whom he then opposed being then a prisoner, thomas curwen, william houlden, henery wood, william vvilson ; also here is an answer to his appendix annexed to the book by margaret fell. 1665 approx. 399 kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from 79 1-bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : 2007-10 (eebo-tcp phase 1). a35520 wing c7703 estc r40138 18763914 ocm 18763914 108232 this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons 0 1.0 universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase 1, no. a35520) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set 108232) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, 1641-1700 ; 1650:2) this is an answer to john wiggans book, spread up and down in lancashire, cheshire and wales, who is a baptist & a monarchy-man wherein may be seen how he exalts himself, against christ the light, that doth enlighten every man : and also some of his, and his peoples erronious principles, and assertions, which he and his people held in a dispute, with some quakers ... / from the prisoners at lancaster, whom he then opposed being then a prisoner, thomas curwen, william houlden, henery wood, william vvilson ; also here is an answer to his appendix annexed to the book by margaret fell. curwen, thomas. fox, margaret askew fell, 1614-1702. [3], 152 p. [s.n.], london printed : 1665. errata: p. 144. error in paging: p. 98 misnumbered 89. reproduction of original in the bevan-naish collection. created by converting tcp files to tei p5 using tcp2tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between 1473 and 1700 available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the 25,363 texts created during phase 1 of the project have been released into the public domain as of 1 january 2015. anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. 5% (or 5 pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of 100 instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level 4 of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p5, characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng wigan, john. -antichrist's strongest hold overturned. society of friends -apologetic works. inner light. baptists -controversial literature. 2006-09 tcp assigned for keying and markup 2006-09 apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images 2006-10 emma (leeson) huber sampled and proofread 2006-10 emma (leeson) huber text and markup reviewed and edited 2007-02 pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion this is an answer to john wiggans book , spread up and down in lancashire , cheshire and wales , who is a baptist & a monarchy-man . wherein may be seen how he exalts himself , against christ the light , that doth enlighten every man. and also some of his , and his peoples erronious principles , and assertions , which he and his people held in a dispute , with some of the quakers . and also an answer to his queries in his book . and also some queries which was propounded to him , which he would never answer to this day , and also some of his assertious , which he could never make good , and likewise an answer to a second challenge , which book we would have all in patience , and meekness read over , with a single eye , wherein you may see the wicked , ( according to scripture ) is grown worse and worse , who with fair words and fained speeches deceives the hearts of the simple ; who are wise discernes these things . from the prisoners at lancaster , whom he then opposed being then a prisoner , thomas curwen , william houlden , henery wood , william vvilson . also here is an answer to his appendix annexed to the book by margaret fell. london , printed in the year , 1665. to the reader . reader , here is something in answer to john wiggan's assertions , and also to his book , which thou art desired patiently to read over , and to read the scriptures which we have quoted , and also his , and also his words , and our answers , for simple peoples sakes was it answered , that they might be no longer deceived , for we were all satisfied before with christ who is the light of the world , the way , the truth , the life , and he is our satisfaction ; never-the-less john wiggan hath taken some of our papers , and private letters writ to him , but left out the occasion , wherefore they were written , and so in this he hath not done honestly , neither as he would have been done by , and as for all his bad letters , he hath writ to us , we shall not set them down all , nor part , for some of them are out of the bounds of christianity . our book is somewhat large , the most of the heads and strength of his book being spoken too particularly , but take it throughout , and i believe , thou will find such a pack of confusion as thou hast not heard , and malicious spitefull words , against god , and christ the light , which may be found in his book , we have not wronged it , but he hath not paged his book , therefore we could not quote it here . and these things which he hath asserted and laid down , he is to make good by scripture , without ading or diminishing , for we will have plain scripture , also an answer to his challenge , for him to make good all his assertions by scripture without ading to it , and also some queries here is for him to answer , and to clear himself if that he can by scripture , which we believe it will not clear him , and so farewell . from them that loves truth and peace to all mankind . for this is good and acceptable in the sight of god our saviour who will that all men should be saved , and come to the knowlege of the truth , 1 tim. 2. 34. and this is contrary to john wiggan , who saith , god denies faith to some men. you might have had an answer sooner , but it was long before we had his book , and when we had it , was fain to take it in pieces , and many perticuler persons were concerned in it , who some of them lives 60. miles one from another , and the book being called for so hastily again ; he boasted , that we could not answer it , but that was but little to us , for it was truth that we mind . the 2d . of the 5th . month , 1664. this is an answer to john vviggans book , &c. wee hearing of a book that john vviggan had given forth against us , in which are many lies and scandals , and he the said john wiggan , directing one of them to randal hunter and thomas hardy deputy-goalers , as he calls them , but he might have said to the head-keeper and under-keeper . and also this book being disperced abroad in the country through him , it was hard for us to get a sight of it ; but at last it was given to us by the under-keeper , and after a while fetched it away , it concerns many friends , some that are 60. miles of , and some above 20. yet this john vviggan , nor none of his company , ( who sayes he give it forth to convince us of some of our errors , and also a challenge in it ) were not so civil , as to give us ever a copy of it , or the thing it self , and when that friends asked him for the book , he replyed , if we would pay for writeing it over , we might have a copy of it , who hath not forgot his old priest tricks , to make people to pay him for his lies , and by this all sober people , whose minds stands without partiality , may judge of this mans works , who pretended to convince us of our errors , ( as he sayes ) and gives forth a challenge , and publisheth part of a private letter , and what he pleaseth , and never directs it , nor his book , to the authors , and whom it doth concern . and now whether or no this man , hath not lost the very common civility , and understanding that is amongst men , and boasts of his works , which he kept hid from us , though through great difficulty we have gotten a copy for a little time , wherein all men may judge by this carriage , and practice of his , in boasting of his works abroad , and keeping them from them they do concern , they may see it is the work of darkness , and of error , and one that is afraid of the light , and a great part of his book ( as the reader may read and see ) is against the common salvation to all men contrary to jude ; and to be one that denyes the lord that bought them , as in peter ; and all his force and strength is to the denying of john's doctrine and testimony , and that which he came to be a witness of , the true light which enlighteneth every man that cometh into the world , john the first . and also the force of his matter is , to throw away the prophecy of the prophets concerning christ the salvation to the ends of the earth , to mankind , to poor lost man , and also to deny the promise of god to poor creatures , which saith god will give him for a covenant of light to the gentiles , ( speaking of christ ) who shall be his salvation to the ends of the earth , and a new-covenant to the house of israel , and the house of judah ; and this was to all people , both jewes and gentiles , and this light and covenant , is by him denyed ; but to some as he sayes , and so he is one that makes sects amongst the creatures of god , and divides , being in the errour and darkness himself ; being void of the mind of god , his prophets and apostles , and also denying the love of god to the world ; who so loved the world , mark , take notice poor people , that god gave his only begotten son into the world , to save the world , and not to condemn the world , ( as he doth , who saith they have not a light to save them , and they have not the spirit of god ) but that the world through him might be saved ; and moreover christ saith , i am the light of the world , now he doth not say , i am the light of the saints only , ( as john wiggan saith ) but of the world which be in darkness . and christ saith believe in the light , whilest ye have the light , shewing that they have the light before they are believers , that they may be children of the light , john 12. and also he john wiggan makes void the grace of god ( as may be seen in his book ) which hath appeared to all men , as the apostle speaks to titus , which brings salvation , and this grace is sufficient , and so his work is to prove , that the world and wicked men have not a saving-light , nor have not the spirit of god , contrary to the scriptures of truth , as will be proved hereafter ; and so ●● makes people believe through this , that christ did not come to save the world ; so is of that race that would frustrate the grace of god , and of them that forbid the apostles to speak to the gentiles ; but hath not john wiggan had one hundred pound a year of the states , and taken collections of such as he looked upon to be wicked people , and had not the spirit , nor a saving light ; yea , and preached the scriptures to them , which are the things of god , and all people you know , that no man can know the things of god , without the spirit of god , you know the scriptures saith so . and whether all men will not judge , whether this man is not grown sensless , or he hath cracked his brain through his foolishness : nay , would not this john wiggan preach , if the powers would give him two or three hundred pounds a year , to preach the scriptures , which are the things of god to the world , which he saith hath not the spirit of christ , nor a saving light , hath he not the conscience to take this , and bless them though the world did not understand the things of god , and what do you think of all the independants that he preached too , and hath left , and now turned baptist , it may be he thinks that is a better commons and pasture , to maintain him in ; for hath john wiggan restored that which he had of them at manchester , and other places ? for we say that it is but just , that he should do so . for to preach to a people that hath not a saving light , nor the spirit , the things of god , they that cannot understand them , without the spirit , and to take money of them , is it not a robing of them , and a cheating of them ; and ought he not in justice to make restitution , for we do not know a greater enemy to christ and his apostles , and plain scriptures , this day in england then he is , as his practice hath made it manifest ; and as for all his slanderous expressions in his private papers , we shall not send abroad , but let them lie upon him together with his lyes , nor lay open his nakedness , we need not , for he hath laid it open in his own book sufficiently , as will be manifest to every impartial reader . first , that paper which was sent unto thomas hardy by thomas curwen , it was not sent up and down in the country as his was , but if he had sent for a coppy of it , he might have had one ; so we did not serve him , as he hath done us ; and if there had been any errors , they should have been made manifest , ( but he hath not ) that the reader might have read them , for we are not afraid of our deeds coming to the light. and our paper was neither partial nor confused , as it will manifest it self , and it is to the honour of truth . and it s he that swallowes up the simple in errors , ( as he speaks of , ) and hath vomited out the same again ; how many hath he vomited out about manchester , but swallowed them up but for gain , and that which he hath vindicated is error . and whereas he saith , he was provoked to this debate with the quakers ; that is false , for it was his own challenge ; for friends would have discoursed with him in a christian way , in his own chamber , which he denyed , and bid them depart his chamber ; and when friends have come up in a christian way to him , he hath threatned them by calling for the jaylor ; and another time when thomas curwen came up in a christian way , he shaked him by his coat , as though he would have tore it from off his back , to thrust him out of his chamber , though often he came into our chamber , and we never served him so , but discoursed as long as he would . but this is the thing , major wiggan in calling the jaylor he wanted his magestrates sword , like a persecuting jew , help men of israel against the apostles , for these are the men that turnes the world upside down . and this is john wiggans patience and christian spirit , as he calls it ; and he being a prisoner we would never have brought him to publick shame , but he himself hath brought it , therefore he may blame himself . and whereas he speaks of being provoked , to the debate in defence of truth . nay john , thou art out of love , that art so soon provoked ; and its truth that torments thee , because thou canst not defend thy errors , thou canst not chop and change with truth , as thou didst with the people at manchester . and what thou hast set down afterward will appear . and the contention of the meeting was through thy self , for thou wast the first man that brake the order , ( which was that all might speak one by one ) and burst out into a laughter , ( when others were speeking of the things of god ) in an uncivil and immodest way , which begot thy own people into the same , and so raised up the rude and uncivil spirit in thy own people , that some was fain to rebuke thee , who were speaking of the things of god ; for the things of god are weighty , and ( as the scriptures saith ) the fools heart is filled full of laughter , and that is the mark of a fool ; and thou wast too hot and passionate to talk soberly : and dost thou not remember what a passion thou was in , when thou discoursed with richard hubberthorn at manchester , when one of thy own people did reprove thee ; and doest thou not remember what violent hands thou laid upon john abrams , when he and james harrison came to discourse with thee of the things of god in a christian way , and what a rage , fury and passion thou wast in , is not this a mark of a novice , soon angry , and are not these unclean hands lifted up to god , will god accept them ? and whereas thou speaks of boasting , that is thy own , & the principle that thou would discourse upon was thy own chusing , though nothing thou hast cleared to this day by the scriptures of truth , but manifested thy self further in error ; and as for detecting our persons and carriages thou canst not , but thy own carriage is detected ; and so thou maist take shame that pleads against truth , but god will honour his truth , and them that stands for it , and happy would it be for thee if a place of repentance were found for thee , though thou maist have had many esaus tears proceeded from thee through thy agonies . and the unsavory fruits thou speaks of , is thy own , by which thou deceives the ignorant , and the least that is simple in the truth discernes thee , thy spirit and principle , and are reclaimed from the error of thy way , and that makes thee so rage against them . and as for thy additional accompt thou hast given forth , by discourse concerning the light in every man , and thy interpreting the scriptures , which indeed is perverting the scriptures by thy addition , as will be further manifested and proved . and as for thy saying , if any of them shall yet persist to maintain their error , here you will find an offer further to debate the difference betwixt us before any person in authority . answ . it 's truth we maintain , against thy errors , as we have done to all thy brethren before thee till this day , who are all come to nought , who have made such havock upon us and our goods ; we have maintained it , and shall maintain it with our lives to death , against thy errors before what magestrate thou wilt , as after will be manifest , or when thou wilt , or where thou wilt , for its truth we stand for , and suffer for . and as for the perticulars , that thou wilt suffer for as well as we , and art not in the same principle , bower and spirit , as the saints be in , in that thou suffers but as an evil doer . and whereas thou talkest of a measure of the spirit of god given unto thee , this is but to cover thy lies and errors , and to deceive withal ; for if thou wert in the measure of the spirit of god thy self , thou wouldst not deny it in others ; and so in this thou art an enemy in thy spirit to every thing that we stand for , because thou art not in the spirit . and whereas thou sayest , this is a relation of the occasion & manner of a debate had in the castle at lancaster the 17. day of the 1. moneth , ( ●●●monly called march ) 1664. between me john wiggan , and george fox , john stubbs , and many other of the people called quakers , about the light within . answ . the dispute was not george foxes , nor john stubbs , but thomas curwens , and william wilsons , but george fox , and john stubbs , liberty being granted , george fox hearing such gross errors laid down by john wiggan , he spake something to contradict them by scriptures , they being so gross and manifest ; and so this book of wiggans is not only a relation of that , but of many other things of his own addition , and private things sent-abroad by him , and the truth of it all may be seen in the following answer . and what i tho. curwen said to thee as thou passed through the great hall , thou being a deceiver of the people , i bid thee leave of thy deceiving ; as yet thou couldest never clear thy self of being a deceiver , nor hast not done in thy book : and whereas thou sayest , thy answer was mild , to this purpose said thou so , consider well what thou hast said , and whether thou canst make good thy words , and tell me as i come back whom i have deceived , and wherewith i have deceived any , or how thou canst prove me a deceiver ? answ . here thou praises thy self of thy mildness , if another had done it , it had been better for thee ; what was thy mildness to me in thy chamber , when i came to discourse with thee of the things of god , thou laid violent hands upon me , and like to have torn my coat off my back , to haile me out of thy chamber , and this was not christian like ; and whereas thou ( lyer ) bid me tell thee as thou came back that is a lye , and thy voice i knew to be the voice of a stranger , and now thou hast made it manifest who denies christ the light to be saving ; and whereas thou wouldest know whom thou hast deceived , there came a woman from london to thee , to declare against thee , whom thou hast long deceived . and there came a man from stopphed , whom thou had deceived , to cry against thee , and there came james parke to cry against thee and to discourse with thee of thy deceivableness , who saw thy deceit , and turned away from thee , when they came to the light of christ jesus which manifested thee , and saw thee to be a preacher against christ the light ; and all may see herein what is the end of thy preaching , when thy work is to bring people from the heavenly light of christ jesus within them ; and lead them into imaginations and whimsies , and fancies of thy own brain , and many others about manchester which might be instanced , which some of them hath been with thee here , which thou long kept from the light of christ jesus within them , who now praise the lord that they are come from under the bondage , and have found christ their saviour and leader and light which thou denyest . and whereas thou sayest that i was rash , & my censures groundless in saying thou taught the way , and know it not thy self . answ . thou hast manifested thou dost not know the way , for there is but one way to god , who is christ , the light that doth enlighten everyman , who doth enlighten the gentiles , & is the glory of israel , and the salvation to the ends of the earth ; and christ saith , i am the light , and i am the way to the father , and no man comes to the father but by me . and this light in every man thou denies to be saving , which we say it is saving or condemning ; to them that love it , it 's saving , and to them that hate it , it 's condemning : and so it 's manifest that thou art a confesser of him , and a teacher of him in words as other sects are ; and the devil could preach christ in words without him , ( and said thou art the son of god ) as thou dost who denies him to be a light in all men savingly , and so doth all the sects in christendom that preaches christ in words for an end , and their gain , as thou did at manchester at thy chapels , and preached up thy independant way ; and thou left the people in delusion ; didst thou know christ then , though thou preacht him in words , and so doth all these before mentioned know christ the way , and such as held forth the doctrine of devils ; commanding to abstain from meats , and forbiding to marry , who went about to deceive ( the christians and people of christ the way , ) in words for some end , but not in truth ; and antichrists are not they , such as pretend to preach christ in words , and yet knows him not , who is a mystery . answer me plainly , didst thou ever hear christs voice at any time , or hast thou seen his shape ? for if thou hadst known him the way , thou would not have deny'd his light to be saving to the world. and hast thou not read collos . of some that intruded into these things they never saw , which neglected christ the body and head , who is the way and light , &c. and whereas thou sayes it is not possible to teach the way , and know it not , mat. 2. 4 , 5. 27 , 28. 12. the pharisees and the priests preached christ to come to herod ; and told when he should be born , by the scriptures , and yet knew him not to be the way when he came , but persecuted him when he came , as thou may know by the scriptures when christ rose , and yet thou knowest him not to be the way , the truth and the life , but denies him to be the saving light spoken of in joh. 1. and my words was not harsh nor rash censure , but in plainness and truth , as thou hast made it appear . and as for me william wilson , i know nothing else thou livest in but beggarly rudiments , who denies christ to be a saving light , who enlightens every man ; who shuts up the gates of heaven against men , and will neither go in thy self , nor suffer others to go in . and shew me by plain scripture where christ calls taking of bread and wine an ordinance ? for we do drink of the vine , and and eat of the bread that comes down from heaven : and my words were neither harsh nor rash , therefore thou dost us wrong to say so , and to blame us , and exclaime against us these queries as followeth were sent to john wiggan to answer by me thomas curwen , and are unanswered to this day ; and he complaines he wanted time , and hath had them above halfe a year , when such a man as he is looked upon , might have answered them in halfe a day . 1 query . whether thy way never fell ? 2 where be all the daubers ? 3 whether all the ministers of adam's house in the fall , daubed not with untempered morter ? 4 whether a man while he is upon the earth , shall be made free from the body of death and sin while he is on this side the grave ? 5. and whether christ doth not enlighten every one that comes into the world with a saving light ? 6. whether is bread and wine christ the substance , yea , or nay ? 7. and how long hast thou taken bread and wine in remembrance of christs death till he come ? 8. and whether or no when he is come thou will take it in remembrance of him . 9 and which is the nearest , to take a thing in remembrance of his death , or to come into his death ? 10 and whether or no thou thinkest to come any nearer to christs death , then taking bread and wine in remembrance of him ? 11 and whether or no doth thou think to come any nearer to christs death then to take bread & wine in remembrance of his death , and so keep alive in the old nature ; and is not this the deceiver ? 12 hast thou known the death , the pangs , and the sorrow , and art thou become a fool for christs sake , and is the wisdom of the world become foolishness to thee , and in what place boundest thou thy own ? 13 and how comest thou to receive that which is foolishness to the world , and how was thou awakened out of sleep , and when did the grave open , and when did the prisoner shew himself forth ? 14 and when did the tongue of the dumb sing ? 15 and when was the tongue of the first birth silent ? 16 and when was thou come to thy wits end ? 17 and how hast thou watered thy couch ? 18 and what is the tongue of the learned ? 19 and what is the gray hairs ? 20 and what is it that anti-christ and the false prophets ravened from , and where was it ? 21 and when did the keepers of the house tremble , and the strong man bow himself ? 22. and hast thou the same power and spirit to baptize , and give bread and wine as the apostles had , and hast thou heard the voice of christ as they did ? 23 and seeing thou took offence at me for calling thee a deceiver ; what is the true way , & where is it , & whether all mankind be enlightened by it , and whether it be within man , or without ? 24 and whether or no thou hast seen it , or hear it , or heard the voice of god at any time , or seen his shape ? answer these queries in a scripture way in writing , and bring forth thy deeds to the light , or else i do intend to stick a coppy of them on thy door tomorrow . from thy friend thomas curwen the fifth day of the first moneth 1664. directed for john wiggan these . and these queries were sent to john wiggan to be answered by him ; and because i said if he would not answer them i would stick them on the door tomorrow , he sayes he has but a short time and yet in this half year he hath not answered them , but he hath published them in his book to his shame , without an answer , manifesting his insufficiency to resolve doubts and questions in weighty matters to shuffle them off to the reader ; he calls them frivilous , and they stand still unanswered by him , for if he had told us that he had been uncapable or unable of answering them , we would so have taken it ; but he being a man so much looked upon , and professing such high things he was able to resolve doubts and questions , which if he had been a man as he is looked upon , he would have been ashamed to have published them to the reader unanswered ; and we did not boastingly send the queries to thee , nor sought advantage against thee , but that the plain truth might have been manifested by thee if thou hadst had it , but its manifest to the contrary ; and the queries are pythy and full , and some of them queries about mans salvation ; but thou scornes and scoffes at them , and calls them frivilous , and sayest thou had some weighty matter which we do not know any thou hadst , without it was to study something against the saving light , to preach to thy people , which was not a thing of so great weight , who runs one while to thee , and another while to other priests , who are unestablisht like thy self . and in thy letter to my first paper thou seems to be offended , because that i said that thou was offended for calling thee a deceiver of the people , &c. it manifests thou art offended by thy speaking of it so much abroad . and as concerning my saying thou taught the way to others , and knew it not thy self , that is answered before , and i did speak forth the words of truth and soberness to thee , as being often burthened with hearing thy strange voice , & savouring thee to be out of the spirit that gave forth the scriptures . and for making it appear whom thou hast deceived that i have done before , and whom thou hast deceived , and how , in drawing them from the pure light of christ , which is saving , which enlightens every man ; and for thy saying there will be but little truth found in saying thou taught thy way to others , and it will be hard for me to prove or any of my friends , thou hast proved it thy self , and i have proved it sufficiently here before , and also it was proved in the dispute , but that thou art more minded to cavil then obey the truth , and it s no matter of thee saying my words are improper , when thou wilt not believe plain scripture , when as thou bids me tell thee where the apostle said some preached the way , the truth , and the life , and yet knew him not , such as professed him in words , and denyed him in life , such as the apostle calls evil doers , evil beasts , and slow bellies , and teaches for filthy lukre , as thou hast done who is a sayer and not a doer , and such as preacht christ of envy as thou dost , and added afflictions to the apostles bonds , those knew not christ the way and the life , neither was in it , for they were in the envy and strife , as thou art ; and those are unlike to know him ( though they may preach him in words , for envy blinded them as it hath done thee , philip. 1. 15. but did not those false apostles , deceitfull workers transforming themselves into the apostles of christ , preach christ in words as thou doest ; how could they have gone about to deceive the saints which believed in christ , and were they not despisers of the apostles and ministers of christ as thou art ; nay , did they not boast that they were ministers of christ , as thou doest , and denyed his life as thou doest , 2 corinth . 11. from the 13. to the 23. and did not christ speak of such who preached in his name , and in his name cast out devils , and i do not believe that ever thou came to see so far as these did ; and yet he said depart from me ye workers of iniquity , and the false prophets in the 24. of matthew , who said loe here is christ , and loe there , these was preachers of christ in words , under a pretence to bring them to a false christ , and christ said go not forth after them , for he would come and dwell in them , and this thou cannot abide to hear spoken on , of christ being in men a saving light , and dost thou not know that many has a form of godliness , tit. 3. 4. and what form is that , is it not the scriptures that speaks of god and christ , and denies the power , wherein i feel thee to be one , who are to be turned away from , who withstand the truth , and many of thy hearers turned away from thee , whom thou led away captive : and what wise man cansay i have wronged the apostles words in this , for i have not wronged the apostles words , but thou wrongest me , and thou dost not preach the love of christ , who denies the light , christ , to be saving that enlightens all men , and christ is the way , the truth , and the life , who ever preach him , or for what ever end they preach him for , and we set up the christ jesus the apostles preached , and set up , the light of the world which the prophets prophesied of , but thou preachest another as was said before , who denies his light to be a saving light in all men ; though some men neglect their salvation , as thou may read in the scriptures , and we have the same gospel the apostles had , and preached ( to wit ) the power of god which i do believe thou was never yet in , for if thou had thou would not have changed so , and have left thy people for what hast thou left that christ thou preached to the independants , or hast thou restored the money which thou got amongst them , so confess the truth ? for i never changed since i knew the truth , the same christ the apostles preacht ; and the true religion i believe thou hath to seek it , who denies the light , and so in meekness and fear i declare to thee , we own no other christ jesus , then the apostles preacht , and set up , and this christ jesus i am not ashamed to confess before all , who is the light that enlightens all men that comes into the world , who is the salvation to the ends of the earth , who tasted death for every man and this is gods love to mankind . and whereas thou sayest , thou will not answer my queries , nor satisfie me , nor any querist ; in this thou hast manifested thy self and spirit what it is ; and hast denyed a christian spirit , who should be ready to give an answet to any that asked them a reason of the hope that was in them , and my questions tends to edification and not to strife , and confessing the working of god in their hearts and what they past thorow , and the acquaintance with god , hearing and seeing of him and things concerning salvation , and scripture words that declares of the same ; and this is not edification to thee , and yet thou contradicts thy self , and sayest thou would give a reason of the hope that is in thee , and yet doth not answer my queries concerning-christ the hope , and other workings of the spirit of god : truly john this manifests thy emptyness and shallowness of the things of god and that which concernes mans salvation . and thou sayest thou hast in readiness to answer in love ; those queries was in love sent to thee , but this is but a shift and a boast ; for if thou hadst not answered them in love to us , who thou accounts thy enemies , though thou hast called us thy friends , thou might have answered them for their sakes thou sent thy book too , if thou hadst no love to enemies . john wiggan thou sayest that the light wherewith every man is lighted that comes into the world , is not a saving light ; and this thou say'st thou shalt thorough the strength of christ be ready to maintain against me , or any of my friends who hold the contrary , when and where a meeting may be had in a peaceable and quiet way before competent witnesses . answ . thee and all thy witnesses at the meeting by all your opposing the scriptures and us , that stood for them ; could not make good that christ was not the saving light that enlightens every man that comes into the world , though yee broke out into a rage and broke your own order , ( which was ) that none should speak while another was speaking , and thou was the first man that brake it , both when g. f. and w. w. was speaking , and neither love or humility proceeded from thee but abundance of pride , rage and envy , when thou was plung'd and could not make good what thou hadst asserted , which was contrary to christ and the prophets , as in esaiah and john the 1. 8 , 12. and that which moved me to stick the paper on the door proceeded from the holy spirit ; which hath caused thee to vent forth so much against the light of christ , and hath brought that forth which hath been so long hid in thy heart under a feigned humility , and now is brought to light , ( praises to the lord god for ever ; ) for thy disputing is against christ the light , &c. to be saving ; so thou art not like to be a true preacher of christ . and thomas curwens second paper , wherein he shewes john wiggan he has not answered his queries , and how that he would come into his chamber to discourse about one query , which john wiggan had chosen out , that query which speaks of christ being the saving light that doth enlighten every man that comes into the world , and this christian way of discourse john wiggan denyed , though before he had spoken of a meeting betwixt him and our friends , when and where a meeting might be had in a quiet way ; and when we came into his chamber ( he having put it to us before when and where , which we looked upon his own chamber to be the best and civil'st ) he contradicts his own words , and again challenges us down into the shire-hall ; and thou disputing about this query , did not satisfie me , concerning all the other i stuck the paper on the door according to my word , which thou hast neither answered in writing nor word to this day , and my word is made good to thee or any rational man. concerning such as get the form of godliness , and preaches him , and knowes him not , and thou geting the apostles words , and out of their life and power , thou art he that wrongest the apostles ; and whereas thou sayest the apostles useth no such words ; that is cleared before . and my second paper which was brought to thee was not with that purpose to disturb thee , but that thou might have seen thy self , if thou would not have shut thine eyes , and here i clear things over again to thee , if thou wilt not hide thy self from the light thou may see , and that i neither wrong the apostles nor thee , but am one with the apostles against such as thou art . and whereas thou faith thou art not inclined to multiply words to occasion strife , and yet thou contradicts thy self , and multiplys many words to no purpose against the saving light of christ , and which is saving , who said he would give for a covenant of light , and is the peace between god and man ; and that which thou multiplys is against him , which occasions nothing but strife and confusion , and not peace , for the peace is in christ , the light which thou canst not abide to hear on , that every man has a saving light ; because it marrs thy trade , and thy great diana would be taken away ( to wit ) thy gain ; for preaching christ the light , mar'd the great diana and all the workmens gain , as thou may read in the acts : and thou said thou would meet us in a spirit of love and meekness , but it proved otherwise , when thou appeared at the dispute . and whereas thou sayest in thy answer to thomas second letter , that thou wouldest treat with thomas about the light , and any other point , and saith i was over confident in saying i was mistaken , if thou thinkest i should leave it to thee to appoint time and place , and had left it to me before , both when and where , as may be seen in thy letter , and here is thy contradiction ; and when i had appointed the meeting when and where according to thy own challenge , when now thou say'st after thou had left it to me , when and where ; and we appointed thy own chamber , then thou deny'st us coming there except thou hadst invited us , thou camest often into our chamber without inviting , and thou denyed us for appointing the place , and said we were over confident , and so forsook thy own proposition , and appointed another place ; and so this is no honour for to publish abroad such things : and this is thy seeking after truth , which was but a pretence , and not in reality , and friends did meet with thee , and did discourse with thee , and when the day came thou stood not to that neither , but found some excuse , and when thou didst come , friends spoke to thee concerning thy own words and promises , and how thou didst not stand to thy words , promises and time , in thy challenge , but shuffled and altered , and as thou sayest falsly that thee was challenged by us first , that is false , for the queries was sent to thee to answer in writing , or else we would stick them on the door , and thou vapoured and challenged , and left it to us , and then denyed it again , said this day and the other day , and brake thy own word and promise , which caused many to come out of the country to see thy own folly , and thou was the occasion of the dispute , for we would have discoursed with thee in a christian way , which thou denyedst it in thy chamber , which we would have granted thee to have come into ours , if thou hadst desired it ; and all thy dayes work was to stand in opposition against truth , christ the light that enlightens every man ; and instead of bringing people to the light thou turns them to darkness from the light : and whereas thou say'st because i did not set thy letter by mine upon the door , therefore i savour of a fleshly spirit in divers circumstances . that which thou has particularized i answer , for not setting it upon the door , because it was not an answer to my queries , therefore thou savours more of a fleshly spirit , who did not answer them , nor convinc'd me wherein i had done wrong . and whereas thou sayest , thomas curwen and william wilson when we came to conferr with thee about the meeting according to thy former challenge , which thou villifies us , and sayes we came to provoke thee , and with many heavy censures , as john cowert can witness ; now ye people of lancaster may see what a sufficient witness he hath brought to be a witness for him , who is a common drunkard ; this you may judge what spirit his book came from , for thou at that time in thy chamber didst lay down for doctrine and principles , that the scriptures was the author of thy faith ; who art ignorant of the scriptures , and of the ministers who taught the christians that christ jesus was the author and finisher of their faith , and as for hard or heavy censures we deny them , for we speak the truth in plainness , and thou wouldst not meet according to thy own challenge , but puting us off from time to time , that was the occasion of our coming unto thee , to thy chamber ; but thou should have set down thy own carriage and behaviour in envy and malice towards us in thy chamber , who sweld , and puft , and bid us go out of thy chamber , why did we come there , after thou had challenged us , for we came to thee about thy challenge , and the meeting , and thou in a fury cryed get you out , get you out of my chamber , what do you do here ? as though we could not be admitted into thy presence thou was so high , and scornful , and for thy saying thou was forced to intreat us to go out of thy chamber , thou was past intreating , thou had like to have laid violent hands upon me , as thou didst afterwards ; and if thou hadst not given us a meeting being thine own challenge , how could we judge otherwise , but that-thou dar'st not stand to thy word , & it 's a lye in saying we provoked thee to it , it was thy own challenge , and then thou speaking with r. c. and r. j. about the meeting , and appointed when the day and hour should be , and that thou was willing to give thomas curwen and others a meeting according to thy former challenge and thou would dispute about christ the light , that enlightens every man that comes into the world , by the lords assistance ; but this lord failed thee , for poor old henry wood a labouring man that cannot read a word on a book , gravelled thee so , that thou was not able to answer him ; and as for r. c. and r. j. what language dost thou give them now , who accounted them sober men before ; thy mind is soon altered and changed ; john wiggan disprove that christ doth not enlighten every man that comes into the world with a saving light , or that the light where with every man is enlightened is not saving ; mark people , the light in it self is not saving , and then the insufficiency is in the light according to his judgment ; but we say there is sufficiency in the light , for god saith my grace is sufficient , which none can deny but that the grace is this light ; and secondly that christ the light which doth enlighten all , &c. that , that is not saving is contrary to the scriptures , which saith christ is the salvation to the ends of the earth ; christ saith i am the light , john 1. 8. 12. and this light christ is sufficient to save and to give the knowledge of god , cor. 2. 4. but as christ saith in john 3. 20. some hates the light , and as job saith , some rebell against it , in whose steps john wiggan thou art found . and whereas thou sayest first , that nothing be asserted but what may be proved by scripture , and that nothing be determined but according to the scriptures ; & in thy answer thou could make nothing good that thou didst assert against the light of christ which thou opposes ; for that which thou didst assert was against the plain scripture and the words of christ in which thou confutes thy self , whose determination if it had been possible was to oppose the scripture , instead of asserting by scripture , what thou did'st assert . secondly , whereas thou sayest , that the meeting may be peaceable and quiet , without railing or reproachful speeches , and that the whole dehate may be carried on with a spirit love and meekness . answ . john thou and thy people quickly broke this order , dost thou not remember what a heat and passion thou was in , cocking up thy hat like a ranter , and thy people of such a heat , that john berley was fain to stand up and reprove one of them , and g. f. often bid you be sober , for the things of god was weighty , and should be spoken of in the fear of god , and that he should not be so rash and hasty . thirdly , the meeting may be orderly and without confusion , that is that one may have as much time allowed to speak as another , and that but one speak at once , and that none disturbe him that is speaking . answ . i wonder john wiggan that thou shouldest not be ashamed to publish such things in the sight of men ! for thou was the first man that made a disturbance , that spake when another was speaking , ( to wit ) william wilson , and afterwards when george fox was speaking , and afterwards thy people ran into the same , and so broke your own order , and run into confusion , and when thou should have answered to the people to the matter , thou fell a preaching to the people , and when i thomas curwen would have stood up and have spoken , thou would not let me ; so that i see thou art nothing but a man of fair words , so thou didst not give time but thou brakest the time , and therefore was we forced to cry for order so oft' amongst you . 4ly . and whereas thou sayest , that the meeting may continue three houres , and at the most not exceed four , because of the occasions of friends afterwards , if these be concented unto , let him that is appointed to treat with me , subscribe his name , &c. and what we could not agreed to r. c. r. j. let him know . answ . most of this was done according to his desire , and let him take what time he would to oppose christ the light which lightens every man that comes into the world , and though he had his will granted , all he did was to no purpose . and all people may see whether this was a rational letter or no , and how that we would not limit the truth to an hour , ( as he did before ) for the spirit of truth is not to be limited , though that we let him take his own proffer , and go away when he would , and thou should not have spoken of points wherein this paper differed from thine , but thou should have perticularized them , that the reader might have seen them and whereas thou saidst , we said that thou durst not meet us , therefore thou sentest another paper ; why if thou had said thou would not have met us , thou might have said so , for it was thy own challenge at first , and not ours , and thou should have named them that said so , for no man put thee upon it at first to speak against the light of christ , but thy own mind , and thou sayest in thy next letter , about the third hour , in the fore-part of the day , which i call the ninth hour ; and jo. wiggan , was it but three houres since it was day to the ninth hour , i pray thee answer me these natural things , for thou hast not answered me the spiritual . and so , afterwards when thou hadst denyed thy first proposition to us , that we should appoint time and place , we left it to thee to appoint time and place , and so took thy own , who had contradicted thy former , who would not grant to us that which we granted to thee ; and whereas thou sayest , my friend , and i urged thee to dispute against the light of christ , thou say'st not true , for it was thy own challenge , for we but bid thee make good thy challenge , and that which thou had so boldly asserted against christ the light. and as for thy saying , thou would maintain in the strength of the lord thy assertion ( to wit ) that christ did not enlighten every man that comes into the world , with a saving light , neither that the light wherewith all men is enlightened , is saving ; and this neither thee nor all thy people , with all the strength you had could do , but that which thou did maintain , was to your own shame . and whereas thou sayest thou would do it through the strength of the lord , that was false , for all thy strength was to fight against the lord , who is the saviour of all men , especially of them that believe ; so saith ahe apostle . 1. and whereas thou say'st over and over again , that all things should be proved by the scripture ; and thou proves nothing to the matter . 2. and whereas thou say'st again and again , that the meeting may be peaceable and quiet ; and thou was the first man that disturbed it . and whereas thou say'st , the words were left out as railing and reproachful speeches ; ( we thought thou would call the plain truth rayling ) and thou hoping that the thing would be so carried on ; it was so on our part , but thou and thy people brake out into disorder , and scornful speeches , that thou was often reproved for thy immodesty ; and as i said before thou was the first man that was disorderly as thou speaks on over again ; as also thou was the first man that very uncivilly brake the order of one speaking at once , neither didst thou observe it ; and as for limiting time and hour , that is answered before , and seeing the meeting was put off with a pretence by the jaylor as thou sayest , we met with thee another day according to thy appointment , and we know thou didst make an oration before the meeting , and then propounded that which thou could not maintain , that christ doth not enlighten every man with a saving light , that comes into the world , &c. and i john stubbs stood up and told thee , that christ did enlighten every man that comes into the world with a saving light ; and richard cubban did not alter what thou had spoken and written , as the reader may see in thy book ; and why dost thou say that i richard cubban was perswaded with much ado , for when thou would not stand to what thou had written and spoken , then i stood to what thou would agree to , and this was but a shift from thy own words , we lookt thou should have made every word good , thou had writen and spoken , but thou shifts from thy own words , and therefore we let thee have what words thou would stand to . and whereas thou sayest , i ( john wiggan ) proceeded to prove , premising first that the question was not , whethere there be some light that comes into the world , nor whether christ do not enlighten true believers with a saving light , forasmuch as i denyed not but did affirme there was some light in every man that comes into the world , and true believers was enlightened with a saving light. answ . in thy assertion there was no mention of unbelievers as all may see in thy book , but thy assertion is , christ doth not enlighten every man that comes into the world with a saving light ; then believers are not according to thy words , for thou sayest , the light wherewith every man is enlightened withal ( which we say is the light of christ ) is not saving ; and yet again thou contradicts thy self , and saith believers are lightened with a saving light ; but and if believers be enlightened with a saving light , and unbelievers be not , how are they then condemned for their unbeliefe ; this question neither thee nor thy people could answer . for thy proof that christ doth not enlighten every man that comes into the world with a saving light , thou sayest , that christ doth not enlighten no man but by his spirit ; but christ doth not give his spirit to every man that comes into the world , therefore he doth not enlighten every man that comes into the world with a saving light. these words proves nothing at all but thy own ignorance of the scriptures ; for god saith by his prophet , that he would pour out his spirit upon all flesh in the latter dayes : and the apostles saw those dayes come in their time , as in acts 2. and so this being proved that god pours out his spirit upon all flesh , then he enlightens every man that comes into the world with a saving light according to thy own assertion ; and so this overthrows thy opposing assertion ; and the manifestation of the spirit is given to every man to profit withal , 1 cor. 12. 7. now thou contradicts the apostle here , the true minister he saith every man , but thou gives him the lie , and saith , not every man , god gives his spirit unto ; but we say with the apostles and the prophets that god hath given his spirit to all , as in joel 2. acts 2. 1. cor. 12. and they that do not profit in the spirit , are such as grieves it and quenches it , and rebells against it ; as in nehem. 9. and many other scriptures which might be mentioned : and as for the many scriptures thou hast quoted they are to no purpose . and thou sayest , that thy first proposition is clear , from isai . 59. 12. this contradicts thy proposition , this speaks of the new covenant christ ; and in the 60. chap. ver . 3. and the 11. 12. how that the gentiles that wicked people should come to the light , speaking of christ ; and this quite makes against thee ; that saith christ , doth not enlighten every man with a saving light ; and john 4. 16 , 17. but thou shouldst have read the 16. of john as well as that , where thou may read they have the same comforter , the spirit of truth , which leads the saints into all truth ; and how can thou or the world receive this spirit , which will not believe in the light but hates it ? so this proves that all men have the spirit , and overthrowes thy assertion , and christ the corner-stone breaks thee to pieces , who opposes him and the plain scripture , which all people may read ; and leaves out that which makes against thee , and ephes . 1. 17 , 18. because the saints had the spirit of wisdom , and the eyes of their understandings was enlightened ; this thou brings to oppose christ the light , and the apostles doctrine and testimony , that christ did not enlighten every man that comes into the world , and his light is not saving ; which thou might as well deny christ and say he is not saving , who is the light ; for none of these scriptures doth say that christ doth not enlighten every man that comes into the world with a saving light ; and john 16. 13. makes nothing for thy purpose ; and whereas thou sayest , neither is there any other way by which christ doth infuse a saving light into any man but by his spirit , 1 cor. 2. 10 , 11 , and 12. vers . answ . i pray you all people read this scripture over , and see whether there be any such word as infusing a saving light into any man , but by his spirit ; you may see how he wrongs the apostles words , with his own words , and wrongs john's words also ; for we know that the natural man knows not the things of god , but by the spirit they are understood ; for the natural man quenches and grieves the spirit of god , and so walks despitefully against the spirit of grace , therefore this is no proof that he hath it not , because he cannot discern the things of god , for the things of god are opened to him as he obeyes the spirit of god. and thou saith , the assumtion is proved by jude , that some are natural , not having the spirit : this of jude proves that they had it , and went in the error of ballaam from the spirit ; and these could speak the high words , but it was in hypocrisie ; and so this scripture clearly overthrowes thy argument , which thou takes for a proof against john's doctrine , who saith , christ doth enlighten every man that comes into the world ; and john the 14. 17. which thou brings to prove that christ doth not enlighten every man that comes into the world with a saving light ; which saith no such thing , but proves thy own weakness and ignorance ; for how should the world know christ , or see him ; when they hate his light that comes from him , and will not come to it because it doth reprove them , and there christ the light testifies against the world , because their deeds be evil ; read john the third , and other places . again , thou bringest romans the 8. 9. to prove thy assertion , and sayes , some men have not the spirit of christ : now people , see if this scripture doth say in plain words that some men have not the spirit of christ , and see how he has wronged the apostle , and perverted his words ; and whether the apostle did not tell them ( in the first of the romans ) who were wicked people , that , that which might be known of god was manifested in them : yet they reprobated from it , and so their hearts were darkened , and so was not led by the spirit as the saints was , and so they that quench the spirit , and will not have it to lead them , how are they christs ? and so mark , the same chapter in the following words , they that are led by the spirit of god they are the sons of god. and so thou may see how thou goes about to overthrow the apostles words and christs doctrine ; thou hath a strange doctrine and preaching of thine , to preach to the world , and tell them they have not the spirit , nor a saving light. and so all thy testimonies thou hast brought doth not prove thy proposition to be true , that christ doth not give his spirit to every man that comes into the world , which the 16. of john overthrowes thee . and i disliking thy assumption , ( as thou callest it , but many ignorant people doth not know what thou meanest , but thou would cover thy self by thy dark words ; ) for no proof that thou brought was to purpose ; for that of jude which speaks of such as went in the way of cain ; i say cain had talked with god , and heard his voice though he was a wicked man ; and this thou brings to prove , that wicked men have not the spirit , and doth not know the things of god , but cain knew god , for he talked with him , and that must be by the spirit ; and those that jude speaks of were such as had been with them , and went from them into the way of cain ; or how could it have been said they had err'd , and had not the spirit and the way . and here people may see thou neither knows the scriptures , nor the power of god , as wise as thou thinks thou art , for my words were not , that they lost it , but that they err'd from it , according to the scripture ; and why could thou not put in all my words i spoke , but perus'd my words , and so left out that which pinched thee ; for i have borne my testimony amongst many of your people , both in england , scotland , and ireland , and other places , which many is come from you , and sees your deceitful wayes of darkeness opposing the light ; for i my self was one of you , and now walkes in the light of the lamb , glory for ever to the highest ; and why doth thou wrong me , for i denyed thy proposition , and held forth christ the saving light. and whereas thou sayest by the way , if a scripture pinch us , we will not stick to give a meaning to it , and such an one as may best suite our purpose . answ . this is false , for i gave no meanings to the scriptures but as they are , and there is no scripture that thou brought which pinched any of us , but they nipt and pinched thee as thou callest it : and thou say'st , thou replyed , that it could not be that those in jude ever had the spirit , because they were sensual and natural , and went in cains way : and here all may see , thou left out the word how they went in the way of cain , and error of ballaam ; and cain talked with god , and that must be by the spirit , as i said before ; and god said , should he not be accepted if he did well , &c. therefore cain had the spirit of god ; and they that went in his way from the christians err'd from the spirit , the righteous way , and so became natural , and sensual , in the self seperation from the spirit where thou art ; and that in the second of corinthi . is answered before ; and now people see if jude and the first of cor. 2. c. doth say that natural and sensual men had never the spirit , and you may see how this man perverts the scriptures and wrongs them for his own ends ; for these scriptures speaks no such things as he doth ; and how can the natural man discern the things of the spirit of god when that he grieves the spirit of god , by which he should receive them , and errs from it , as in jude , and is not led by it , cor. 2. and rom. 8. and they that quench the spirit of god in themselves , will oppose it in others , as thou dost ; and those that are led by the spirit of god , they are they that discern spiritual thing and they that quench it doth not ; and thou repeats the 2. of cor. 2. to no purpose for thee , and they cannot decern the things of god that quenches the spirit , and errs from it , but they can decern the things of god that are led by the spirit of god , as in the 1 cor. 2. and this doth not say , he hath not the spirit of god , thou wrongs the scriptures in that , and adds to the apostles words , for all people may see that reads thy words and the scriptures , what a pittiful meaning thou gives to the scriptures here , and speaks thy own words , and would make people believe they are the apostles words , and so wrongs and belies the apostles . and as for thy charging us with disorder as i said before , thou was the first man that was disorderly , and thou spake when another was speaking , and thy people many of them spake together ; and why dost thou complain and say some of us spake , one after another , for this was the agreement that one should speak after another ; and that thou could not have time to answer , and thou had more time then any , but it s thou that did not speak to the matter in hand , but fell to preaching to the people ; and thou wrongest us , for we spoke orderly one after another , except we spoke when you were speaking disorderly , and of your speaking unreverently of the things of god , and our asking the questions was to have thee make good the thing in hand , which thou could not do ; and this is thy shift , to say , thou was obstructed ; but tell me who obstructed thee , for not answering t. c. and old h. w. their queries this half years time , but thou would have had all the talk to have held what errors thou would , and none to oppose thee ; and it seems m. f. and g. f. the truth that they spoke there tormented thee ; and where thou say'st g. f. coming in about that time thou was replying to j. s. this is false , for thou was speaking to m. f. and held the debate ( a good while after g. f. came in ) with her , and then g. f. ( many people standing upon the formes ) upon which he stood up upon , and set one foot upon the edge of the table , for thou was gotten to the uppermost end of the table , in the highest place , priest like , and what a great advantage hast thou taken here , because g. f. stood up upon the forme , did not thou and the other priest stand upon the table before george fox , and was so unruly not to be gotten off the table , and thy own people stood upon the formes scoffing and revileing , and because that g. f. stood but the one foot upon the forme , and the other upon the table leaning upon his knee ; this thou could publish in thy book as a great transgression . and whereas thou sayest thou was standing ; that is false , for thou was siting ; and when g. f. spoke to thee thou cockt up thy hat , more like a ranter , and a player in a tavern , then one imployed in the service of god , and g. f. reproved thee , and told thee the things of god was weighty , and that thou must not be leght ; and all the serious people beheld thy vanity and weakness , and perverting the scriptures . and whereas thou sayest , where thou and others were standing on the ground ; that is false too , for many of you were siting , we did not see you so reverend , though some its true were standing , and stood there where thou should not have stood , and g. f. did take off the strength of the scriptures alledged by thee , and made it to appear contrary to that end thou brought it , and made it to appear that thou confounded thy own assertion , and did prove that every one that came into the world had the spirit of christ according to their measure ; and thou falsly belies g. f. for he neither used undervaluing , or taunting expressions , and i believe that none will say so but thy self , except it be some scoffers , or scorners like thy self ; and g. f. needed not undervalue thee , for thou under valued thy self in speaking against truth , and against the plain scriptures of truth . and as for g. f. as thou saidst , went several times from the table and said , the least babe there , was able to answer thee , the dispute being not his ; liberty being granted , upon which occasion he spoke something to thee , who spoke that thou couldst not make good by the scriptures , as after will be manifest ; and it did appear there that one of the least babes in the truth thou could not answer , ( to wit ) h. w. and f's . presence who is in the truth , was not so needful , whom thou scoffingly termes their leader , or rather their misleader ; but the weakest amongst us saw , and doth see thee that thou was , art , and hath been a misleader to many of our friends , who now see thee , who has christ now to be their leader , praises to the lord god for ever ; and g. f. did not miserably wrest nor abuse the scriptures as thou say'st , but spoke them as they were , but thou makes no conscience of lying , who sayes he miserably wrested them , but that which he spoke was in defence of the truth , against thy error ; and he would have the people to understand the scripture thou brought to oppose thy self , and the meeting was to that end that truth might be manifest to them , for we were satisfied before , and we are very well acquainted with these scriptures that thou brought to pervert the truth ; and thou was seen long ago for what end thy preaching was . and whereas thou say'st , that which g. f. spake was not to the purpose then the scripture thou brought was not to the purpose , and herein thou hast confuted thy self , for that which he spoke was to the scriptures thou brought to oppose the truth ; but it seems thou art offended because g. f. spoke to the people , and opened the thing to them , which makes thee complain , manifesting that thou would keep and lead them in blindness and darkness , that thou might make a prey upon them still . and the thing that thou laid down before the people was , that some men that comes into the world hath not the spirit ; and thou would prove it out of jude ; and when the scripture was read , there was no such words , and yet he affirmed the same thing , though he could not prove it , perverting many scriptures , and yet could not make any to suite his purpose , and when g. f. let him see the same , he broke out into a rage , and fury , and spoke when he was speaking , and so brake the civil order of speaking one by one ; and whereas he saith , that in the corinthians the manifestation of the spirit is given to every man to profit withal , was spoken to the saints , or church of god at corinth , and not to the wicked . the apostle doth not say it was to the saints only , but to every man , and christ saith , what i say unto you , i say unto all men , watch and pray , and how can they pray without the spirit ? and people , you know it was the false prophets that limited the holy one ; and if the corinthians , every one , had a manifestation of the spirit , here is an [ if ] it seems thou questions this , whether they had or no ; and say'st thou , every man that cometh into the world hath not a manifestation of the spirit , as before it s proved out of acts 2. and john 16. and the apostles words was every man , and not every saint ; dost thou not pervert the apostles words here , and also them that were baptised by one spirit , into one body ; which were saints ; and this thou brings to prove , that the world that quenches , and grieveth , and rebelleth against , and errs from the spirit of god , hath it not to reprove them ; which any that reads , but scriptures may see thy ignorance and darkness ; and whereas thou gain-sayest , that the apostle speaks only that the manifestation of the spirit of every man that was baptized by one spirit , into one body ; and made to drink into one spirit and not to every man that comes into the world . now people look this chapter thorow , 1 corinthians 12. whether ye do find these words of wiggan's in it or no , that it is onely to them that believe and are baptized , and whether the apostle has these limits , as he hath , and whether his words be onely to them that are baptized , and made to drink into the one spirit , and doth the apostle say to every saint , and every one that is baptized into the spirit , and not to every man that comes into the world , doth the apostle say these words , but are not his words every man , and not every saint ? and for the same words used in the 11. of corinthians , makes nothing for thy purpose , that all men have not the spirit , for that is spoken to them that came together into one place , there the apostle distinguishes his own words ; what shifts art thou put too for to pervert the truth . and whereas thou sayest , this is said to every man of them and not every man that comes into the world ; and now people see whether the apostle saith , the manifestation of the spirit is given to every one of you only , and see how he contradicts himself with the scriptures he brings , and would pervert it ; for the apostle saith , the manifestation of the spirit is given to every man ; and not to every one of you , 1 cor. 12. 7. and it s given to them to profit withal , whether they do or not , and gods spirit is poured upon all flesh , and so this scripture makes nothing for thy purpose . and as for exodus 19. 5. this doth not oppose gods pouring out of his spirit upon all flesh acts 2. and nehem. 9. was brought , how that god gave his good spirit to such as rebelled against him ; which thou affirmed that wicked men had not the spirit of god ; and we know that the jewes was called the church and people of god , though many of them fell , for their wickedness ; but these that rebelled against it , had it , that were wicked people , which thou denyed , and said , that no wicked people had the spirit of god , which after thou confessed , and so hast overthrown thy assertion ; and so thou saith and unsaith . secondly , thou saith , though it be said he gave them his good spirit , it will not follow that every particular or individual israelite had this good spirit , but such as were israelites indeed . ans . thou hast confessed that the righteous hath the spirit of god , so thou art to prove that the wicked hath it not , and in joshuah the first , there is nothing spoken in that chapter , that god doth not pour out his spirit upon all flesh , and that wicked men hath not the spirit ; there is nothing at all for his purpose ; all that reads it may see : and as for romans 2. 28 , 29. this confounds thee ; all that reads it may see , for this brings people to the spirit of god in them , that they may be jewes in the spirit ; and the romans its known , they had been heathens and wicked people , yet they had the spirit ; and all being not israel that be of israel , rom. 9. 6. we know that neither are all true christians that saith they are christians ; but are such israelites and christians that quench the spirit as thou dost ; but thou denies that all men have it , and so opposes the very doctrine of the apostles and prophets . and whereas thou say'st , that saying in the 9. of nehem. must be reserved thus , moses had that good spirit , and god promised to take off that good spirit that was upon him , and put upon the seventy elders , numb . 11. 17. thus joshuah was a man in whom was the spirit , num. 27. 18. and had another spirit than many others had , and was fitted thereby for the conduct of the congregation , numb . 27. 16. but it cannot hence be inserted , that all or any of the fleshly seed of abraham , or such as were born after the flesh had the spirit , but such onely as were born after the spirit , gall. 4. 23 , 29. ans . this is wiggan's conclusion , and meaning upon these scriptures which he hath brought to prove , that every man that comes into the world hath not the spirit ; which are not to that purpose at all , and doth the 9. of nehem. speak that joshuah had the spirit , and moses , and that it was put upon the elders , and was these them that rebelled and slew the lords prophets , and turned against him ; what prophets of the lord did they slay because thou sayest that in nehem. must be reserved that moses had the good spirit , &c. and they after the flesh , or any of the fleshly seed of abraham , or such as were born after the flesh had not the spirit , but such as were born after the spirit , &c. and nehemiah said generally he gave his good spirit unto them , not only to moses and joshuah , but such as turned their backs on the lord ; which thou cannot prove that ever moses or joshuah slew the lords prophets , &c. and that god deliver'd them into the hands of their enemy , to be vexed and troubled ; and as for numb . 11. & 17. doth not prove that the children of israel had not the spirit of god ; nor numb . 27. 16 , 18. for that saith , god is the spirit of all flesh ; that proves against thee ; for the children of israel had heard the voice of god , and knew the power of god when thy came out of egipt , and knew his law , and so he was called their god ; and so they knew the things of god , which they could not have done but by the spirit of god ; and moses said they were the children of god , and were a holy people , deut. 14. and they were to hearken diligently to the voice of god , &c. and he had set his people the jewes the seed of abraham after the flesh above all nations of the earth , deut. 28. and yet thou fayest , all israel , nor any after the flesh , had not the spirit ; and gall. 4. 23 , 29. doth not prove that israel after the flesh had not the spirit , because , they were not born after it ; for those that persecutes them that are born after the spirit , grieves the spirit of god in themselves ; as christ said , the kingdom of heaven was in the pharisees that persecuted , and the jewes that stopt their eares , and shut their eyes , and would not hear , nor see , least they should have been converted and healed ; and that which they stopt their eares , and shut their eyes too , plainly appears it was the spirit , else what did they backslide and erre from , and quench , and grieve ; so it is evident that all these scriptures thou hast brought , is to no purpose to prove that all men hath not the spirit : and whereas , thou brings gall. 4. 6. of such as were sons of god , they may , and oft do grieve the spirit of god , it doth not say they may , and oft do grieve the spirit , in the ephes . 4. 30. but this thou brings that the sons of god grieves the spirit of god , and quenches it , and not the wicked ; was there ever the like heard , for we say , and the scriptures saith , it is the wicked that grieves the spirit of god , and thou sayest , it is the sons of god ; and as for acts the 7. 5. which we alledge , which speak of their rebelling , vexing , and resisting of the holy spirit ; and by this it is manifest that they had the holy spirit , agreeable to that in the 16. of john , and these were they that opprest christ , as a cart under sheaves , and such vexed the spirit , as in eccles . and whereas , thou sayest , all that do grieve , vex , and resist the spirit of god , have it not ; but they resist the spirit of god in the prophets : this is thy meaning , we know they resist the spirit of god in the prophets , when they first grieve it in themselves , as thou dost ; and as in the fourth of john the world receives him not ; how should they ; when they hate the light , and resist it , as thou dost ; but the spirit reproves them , therefore , they have it , though they cannot receiveit , nor receive christ , but hate him , and so it is thou that grieves gods spirit in his servants . and whereas , thou sayest , when steven said they do resist the holy ghost , it was the spirit in him , by which he spake , as in acts 6. 10. as in like manner they resisted the spirit in the prophets , as acts 7. 52. which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted , &c. this again is thy meaning , but the scriptures doth not say as thou saith , for those that resisted the holy ghost in stephen had received the law of god by the disposition of angels , &c. acts 7. 53. now the law of god was the things of god , and the angels ministring spirits ; so these that had the things of god had the spirit of god , and when they kept not the law of god they quenched and resisted the spirit of god , both in themselves and others . and whereas thou sayest , when the mighty power of god was put forth in signes and wonders in egypt , and the wilderness , numb . 14. 11. 22. and they believing not his spirit not in them , but put forth those mighty workes ; and speaking in joshuah and other faithful witnesses for god in that day ; thus the spirit of god was vexed in noah and lot , by the wickedness of the old world , and not in the wicked , who being strangers , and without god in the world . answ . none of these scriptures doth say as thou say'st , that the wicked had not the spirit of god to grieve , but that it was only grieved in joshuah , noah , and such like ; as for numb . 14. such as had seen the wonders of god ten times , and yet did not hearken to the voice of god , and therefore they erred in their beliefe , as vers . 11. now how can these hear the voice of god and have not the spirit of god. and the apostle said , they did all drink of the spiritual rock , and all eat of the spiritual meat , and the rock that followed them was christ ; and yet thou say'st , they had not the spirit of god to grieve in them , 1 cor. 10. 3 , 4 , 5. and when they lusted and tempted god , and murmured against god and fell , then they grieved gods spirit ; and yet thou say'st , they had it not to grieve , but it was only grieved in others ; and had it been righteous with the lord in one day to cause 23000. to fall , if they had not grieved his spirit which he gave them , and so they griev'd him : and dost thou not believe that the apostle and those corinthians had the spirit of god , who sayes , let not us tempt god , as they tempted him , nor murmur as they murmured ; and heb. 3. the apostle sayes to day if you will hear [ his voice ] harden not your hearts as in the provocation in the day of temptation in the wilderness , when your fathers saw my works , i was grieved with that generation they do always erre in their hearts , and what did they erre from in their hearts , if it was not from the spirit , for when they had heard god , they did provoke him , though all that came out of egipt did not provoke him , for as the gospel being preached to all nations , the word was preached to them , but the word did not profit them , not being mixed with faith in them that heard it , heb. 3. and heb. 4. and in rom. 10. the word of faith which they preached was in the mouth , and in the heart , which all had heard , and can any hear the word , and have not the spirit , and is not the word spiritual , for doth not the apostle say to the romans , which had been heathens , and moses to the jewes , deut. 30. from the 10. to 15. vers . which saith , it was not far off , nor hidden from them , which saith , they need not say , who shall ascend up into heaven , or beyond the sea to bring it , but the word is very nigh , even in thy heart , and in thy mouth , that thou maist do it , so good , and evil , life , and death , was set before them , and this was spoken as well to those that did disobey god , and for their wickednesse , should be scattered among the nations ; if hap'ly thence they should turn from their wickedness , and turn unto the lord , and then they need not say , who shall go up to heaven , or to beyond the sea to bring the word , for it was very nigh them , in their hearts , and in their mouths , that they might obey and do it , and the scripture witnesses the fulfiling of this upon many of them . and whereas thou sayest , that the spirit was vexed in noah , and not in the old world , this is contrary to the scriptures , for the lord said , my spirit shall not alwayes strive with man , and how that the sons of god saw the daughters of men , and took of them wifes of all that they chose , and how that all flesh had corrupted its way , which shewes they had a way before they corrupted it ; but thou sayest they had not the spirit , doth not the apostle say , 1 pet. 3. 18 , 19 , 20. vers . that christ preached to the spirits in prison , which sometimes were disobedient , when the long-suffering of god waited in the dayes of noah ; and what prison is this , and what prison is it that the prisoners of hope must shew themselves forth , and as it is written , sodom gave its self over to fornication , &c. wherefore god brought his vengeance upon them , who judges the world in righteousness ; this shewes a transgression , that they went from the good , and gave themselves up to wickedness , as spiritual sodom does now , and if wicked men have not the spirit , ( as thou saist ) how then can god , who is a spirit , judge the world in righteousness , and doth not the apostle justifie the heathen phylosophers for saying , we all live and move in god , acts 17. 27 , 28. that if hap'ly they might feel after god , and finde him , though he be not far from every one of us ; and how can they feel after him and have not his spirit , which thou ignorantly with thy mind puft up , sayes , they have it not ; and because the saints was a habitation of god through the spirit , therefore , thou asserts wicked men have not the spirit to vex and grieve it ; but this proves it not , that such as be without god in the world , and strangers have not the spirit of god in themselves to grieve and vex , thou saith ; for that which may be known of god , was manifest in them , and when they knew god , they did not glorifie him as god , but became vain in their imaginations , and changed the truth of god into a lye , such becomes strangers to the life of god , rom. 1. so these scriptures overthrowes thy assertions , and proves that wicked men grieves the spirit of god in themselves , as well as in others . and whereas thou saist , joh. 16. 7 , 8. if i depart , i will send the comforter , &c. thou saist by this promise christ makes , is to send the holy ghost after his departure ; it is evident enough that this scripture can be no proof of thy assertion , ( to wit ) that every man that comes into the world hath not the holy ghost ; for if every man had him when he came into the world , what need was there he should be sent to them , after christs ascension ? nay rather , this shews they had him not before he was sent , and so not till after christs departure , which destroyes thy opinion ; yet thou grants the holy ghost is come after christ ascended , to the apostles , and to reprove the world ; so by this thou hast overthrown thy own opinion and assertion ; and we say that christ doth enlighten every man that comes into the world , and is a saviour , and the light is saving ; and the holy ghost is given to reprove the world , and lead the saints ; and it s proved before that the wicked resisted the holy ghost , before christ came in the flesh , and the holy ghost was given to the disciples after christ was ascended , and he should reprove the world ; but thou denies it , and sayes , they have it not ; and so demes plain scripture , and perverts our words ; for our words is , that christ doth enlighten every man that comes into the world ; and sayes , believe in the light , and the holy ghost reproves the world for their unbelief in the light which leads the saints unto all truth . secondly , thou sayes , this promise is made particularly to the disciples of christ , i will send him to you , and not unto the world. answ . why dost thou wrong the scriptures , doth it not say , when he comes , he shall reprove the world of sin , righteousness , and judgment ; of sin , because they believe not in him ; was he sent then only to the disciples , and not to the world ? read iohn 26. 7 , 8 , 9 , 10. over again , and see thy own ignorance and darkness ; and it s sufficiently proved that the wicked resisted the holy ghost before christ came ; as also they that killed the prophets , and also it s proved that christ did send the comforter to his disciples after his ascension , which spirit should reprove the world ; and though the disciples were led into all truth by the spirit , by which they was to preach the gospel to all nations , that the name of christ might be spread over all ; this doth not disprove the spirit of reproving the world ; which thou in thy ignorance brings to prove that the world hath not the spirit to reprove them ; and in the 17. of john christ saith , that they all may be one as thou father art in me , and i in them , that the world may believe that thou hast sent me : now how can the worldbelieve , if they have not the light and the spirit in them to believe in , seeing believers hath the witness in themselves ? and as for christs miracles and signes which some believed , and some gain-said ; for some said , he did miracles by the prince of devils , such stop their eares and closed their eyes , least they should be converted ; as acts 27. and thou sayest , the holy ghost was poured upon none but who repented and believed ; this is thy saying , who art ignorant of the scriptures , which saith , god would pour out his spirit upon all flesh , acts 2. joel 2 , joh. 16. and such as repented and believed received the holy ghost , and others resisted it , and quenched it , so that here is a difference betwixt the believers and unbelievers , for the one receives it , the other rejects it , though it be powred out upon all , as christ saith , the word was sowne in the field ( which is the world ) it was sowne upon all grounds , upon the thorney , the bryrie , the high-way , and the stony ground ; but who brought forth fruit , but the good ground , mat. 13. and this sufficiently proves that the spirit is powred upon all flesh , and heb. 6. which speaks of such as were once enlightened , and had tasted of the heavenly gift , and was made partakers of the holy ghost , and tasted of the good word of god , and if they shall fall away , it were impossible to renew them again to repentance , seeing they crucify ( the lord of glory ) the son of god afresh , and put him to open shame ; and now priest wiggan sayes , these wicked men had not the spirit , nor was not enlightened , yet they crucifyed christ afresh , and put him to open shame ; and thus with his wisdome he abuses the scriptures , though he hath long made a trade of them . and whereas thou makes a preamble upon our words , wherein we replyed to thy assertion ( to wit ) that no wicked man had the spirit of god , but only the saints , and thou did affirm that balaam had not the spirit of god ; and we proved that balaam had the spirit of god , and heard the word and voice of god , as numh. 24. and now thou hast overthrown thy own assertion , and confesses that balaam and saul had the spirit of god , which thou confesses was wicked men , and thus thou hast split thy self upon the rock , and overthrown thy foundation , for before thou affirmed none had the spirit of god but believers ; and balaam prophecyed of great things to the jewes , and god spoke to him , and we know there is a difference betwixt those that grieves the spirit , and those that walks in it ; and before thou was ignorant of these scriptures , as balaam and saul having the spirit of god , and now thou confesses that wicked men may have it upon some occasions , but sayes all wicked men hath it not , read over again joh. 16. acts the 2d . that the holy ghost should reprove the world ; and god would powre out his spirit upon all flesh , which before thou would limit only to believers , with thy dark imaginations ; and how darest thou preach the scriptures , which are the things of god to wicked people ; who sayes they have not the spirit of god , and here again thou overthrowes thy assertion , and thou sayes it is the spirit of god in the ministers of christ that must convince the world ; and when as we bid thee , ( who lookes upon thyself to be a minister of christ ) convince us of any evill we have done , thou shufled it off , and said god must convince us , and so confuted thy assertion ; and whereas thou wrests and perverts the scriptures , and sayes , balaam did not see the starr of jacob , which it is said at a full stop , by balaam , there shall come a starr out of jacob , and a scepter shall rise out of israel : now how could he prophesie of it , if he did not see it ? and this overthrowes thee and thy assertion , who never saw so far as balaam did . and whereas thou sayest , they shall see him when every eye sees him ; by this thou confounds thy own assertion , for none can see god or christ without the light of the spirit ; and thou confesses every eye shall see him ; and we may help thee a little further , for every tongue shall confess , and every knee shall bow , at the name of jesus ; if thou knew what his name is , then thou mightest know that the light of the body is the eye , which sees god. and whereas thou brings job , who said , when i see for my self , and with my eyes , and this thou brings to prove that israel and balaam should not see till the latter day ; and thou maist read job , and confute thy self , job 42. who saith , i have heard of thee by the hearing of the eare , but now my eye seeth thee , here job was a true prophet , for before he said he should see him , now he sayes he did see him , and thus thy ignorance ( knowes not scriptures ) appeareth , and we know what the believers saw , and are satisfyed , and we believe thou hast not come so far as balaams asse , nor heard the voice of god as he did , though thou would sit as a judge of the world , and in the saints conditions . and whereas thou sayest , that the spirit of god dwelt no more in balaam , then the angel of the lord dwelt in the asse ; and one of thy people said , ( which thou say'st is no baptist ) that balaam had no more spirit then his horse ; he was one of thy followers , and took thy part , and thou didst not gain-say him then ; and now thou say'st in effect the same that he did . and that the spirit of god dwelt no more in balaam then the angel did in the asse ; then let all people read numb . 22. numb . 23. numb . 24. did balaam's asse praise the tents of jacob , and bless israel , and prophesie to many people ; and will god bring balaam's asse to judgment as he doth balaam ; for balaam erred from the spirit , ( but thou cannot say his asse did so ) and loved the wages of unrighteousness , and hast not thou been there , to run greedily after the error of balaam for gifts and rewards ; does not thou remember a difference bewixt 40 l. and 100 l. for preaching about manchester , and who should have had this , john ; and god testified against the error of balaam , but not against the asse , as in jude ; and here it s proved balaam had more spirit then his horse , ( as you called him ) which overthrowes the assertion of thee and thy fellowes : and whereas thou makes a great transgression , because , we said he was a baptist , if thou be a baptist he maintained thy principle , and was one with thee , and why dost thou deny him now . and whereas thou sayest , there is a light or law in every man , which convinceth and reproves of sin , and this made judas bring the money back again , and this ( thou sayest ) doth not reprove of unbeliefs judas was made a partaker of the ministry , and had he no more then a natural man , is this according to thy knowledge of the scripture ? did this which convinced judas not reprove him of his unbelief ? did it not make him confess he had sinned in betraying the innocent blood ? did he not see his unbelief and wickedness here , mat. 27. and to prove thy assertion thou brings rom. 2. 14 , 15. which sayes the gentiles that have not the law , do the things contained in the law , shews the work of the law written in their hearts , their consciences bearing witness , &c. and if thou read the 16. vers . thou may see that this witness speaks , in the day that god shall judge the secrets of men by jesus christ ; hereby it plainly appears that in the day when god shall judge the secrets of men by jesus christ , this spirit which lead the gentiles to do those things contained in the law , will justifie them ; and this uncircumcision the apostle saith , shall be counted circumcision , as vers . 26. and doth not this light which judges the secrets of all hearts by jesus , convince of unbelief ; so here thou hast belyed the apostle , and whereas thou sayest , this was before that promise in the 16. of john , we know that — and whereas thou sayest , that this spirit of truth was to convince the world of sin , as in the 16. of john , and unbelief ; here thou hast overthrown that which thou asserted in the publick meeting , for therein thou asserted that none had the spirit but believers , and this scripture was to convince thee , for that which convinced the gentiles was within , by which they knew god , and was not that by the spirit ? else how came they to be baptized in the spirit , and circumcision in the spirit , and thus one while thou confesses , and another while denies , and so is in confusion ; and goes about to bring one scripture to overthrow another , to thy own destruction ; for when the holy ghost was come , when the apostle preached to the romans and the gentiles , which he spoke of , and preached to , was become the true circumcision in the spirit , and the holy ghost was come then which was promised . and in all thy answers , it doth not disprove the scripture , which saith , the world hath the holy ghost to reprove them ; but christs words which is our assertion stands , and thou and thy assertion by thy former arguments is shaken , and so it is proved that the wicked and unregenerate hath the holy ghost , which thou confesses is the spirit of christ , though they grieve it , and all the scriptures thou brought proves nothing to the contrary , but overthrowes thy assertion , and john 14. 17. is answered before , for the world and thou art unlike to receive the spirit of truth , when you reject and oppose the light , and will not receive it , which you should believe in ; for if you receiv'd it , it would not reprove you , but you would have fellowship in it ; & why dost thou judge the world hath it not , when thou confesseth thou hath it , and is in the same nature of the world , in envy , malice , and revenge ; and rom. 8. 9. proves nothing to thy assertion , but saith , the saints was not in the flesh , and they that quench and grieve the spirit of god , and will not have the spirit of god , but it reproves them for their sin , &c. how can they be said to be christs , when they will not have the spirit of christ to lead them ; and jude 19. is clear against thy assertion , which speaks of such as had the spirit , and erred from it , and so became like sodons , and cain , and core , and balaam , these thou brings to prove that wicked men has not the spirit of god over and over , balaam had the spirit of god , that is proved in numbers ; and in genesis it is proved that cain talked with god , and heard his voice , and he could not do that without the spirit ; and core knew the power of god that brought him forth of egipt , and was not he of the tribe of levie that ministred in the priests office , and was he like to medle in the things of god without the spirit ; though these err'd from the spirit , as in jude , and so became sensual . and thou had more liberty to hold forth thy errors , then others had to hold forth truth ; and as the serpent led adam and evah from righteousness and holiness to the tree , by which they fell , so thou his messenger leads people from the spirit of god within them , to something without them . whereas thou say'st in thy second argument , whom christ lighteth with a saving light into their hearts , he causeth the glorious light of the gospel to shine , 2 cor. 4. 4 , 6. but he causeth not the glorious light of the gospel to shine into the hearts of every one that comes into the world , for the gospel is hid to some , to whom the god of this world , hath blinded the mind of them that believe not , &c. ans . this doth not follow nor prove that all are not enlightened with a saving light , because , the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them that doth not believe ; nor it does not overthrow the promise of god , who said he would give him for a light to the gentiles to enlighten them , who was the glory of israel , luke 2. 32. and he should be gods salvation to the ends of the earth , isa . 42. 49. 6. and isa . 52. 10. where the lord said , is it a light thing that he should be his servant to raise up the tribes of jacob , and restore the preserved of israel ; but saith the lord , i will give thee for a light to the gentiles , that thou may'st be my salvation to the ends of the earth : and when christ came , he said , i am the light of the world ; and he that followes me shall not walk in darkness , but shall have the light of life , joh. 8. 12. & john which came to bear witness of the true light , saith , that , that was the true light which lighteth every man that cometh into the world , ( and he sayes ) that all men through him might believe : and christ saith in the 12. of john , believe in the light ; and he that believed is saved ; so this proves that the light is saving ; and though some be darkness , and the god of the world hath blinded their eyes , because , they do not believe ; yet this light shines in darkness , and the darkness comprehends it not , joh. 1. 5. so this clearly overthrowes thee and thy assertion , to be in the darkness , and not to comprehend the light which shines in thy darkness , for he that believes in the light is saved by it , and he that does not , is condemned ; and christ who is the light , is the saviour ; so this proves that the world is lightened with a saving light ; though they neglect their salvation and god is just , in judging of them ; and the saints that believe i● the light , and becomes children of the light , it shines in their hearts , and gives them the knowledge of the glory of god in the face of jesus christ , 2 cor. 4. but them that hate the light , john 3. comes to be darkened , and does not know the father and the son as the saints do , for they become haters of their salvation ; and as thou and the pharisees hating the true light , and seting up your own wisdom , instead of the light , then if the light which be in you is darkness , how great is that darkness , when you stop your eares from the true light of christ in your selves , and set up your own way , and denies christ jesus the light to be the way ; and ephes . 4. 18. nor math. 6. neither of these places sayes that the light in them was darkness ; but saith , ye were sometimes darkness , but now are you light in the lord , &c. and christ saith , if the eye be single , the body is full of light , but if it was double or evil , it was full of darkness ; and to the double or evil eye he questions , if that light that is in them be darkness , how great was that darkness ; and this shewes there was two eyes , and the double went from the single eye which would fill the body full of light ; but the double fills it full of darkness , and then calls darkness light , and denies the light of christ as thou dost , isai . 5. 20. so all the scripture thou brings and perverts is to no purpose , for they do not disprove the light to be saving . and whereas thou sayes again , such as are lightened with a saving light are new creatures , and are regenerated , and such as the light is , such is the life , and it is implanted in them , and they have eternal life ; but christ doth not quicken , regenerate , make new creatures , and give life to every man that comes into the world , but some are in the flesh , born and are created in sin , have not life , yea die in their sin . ans . here thou goes about to lay the fault upon christ , that men are not regenerate , and hath not life , &c. when the scripture plainly tells thee that it is because they do not believe , and they that do believe are regenerated , born again , and have eternal life , and do know the effects of the light , and such as the light is , such is their life ; but they that doth not believe in the light , does not become children of the light , but remaines in the flesh , and the birth of it , in an unregenerated state without life , hating the light , so hating the life , not because they have not a saving light , but christ saith , believe in the light while you have it ; shewing they have it , before they are children , joh. 12. heb. 3. and they that dyed in their sins , ( poor man were in thy condition ) they did not believe that christ the light was he to believe in ; and all the scripture thou brings is nothing to oppose the light of christ to unbelievers , which was spoken to the saints , which thou perverts , for we know what was spoken to believers , and what to unbelievers ; and joh 8. 24. where it 's said , if they did not believe that he was the christ they should die in their sins : and the apostle said , all was gone astray , both jewes and gentiles , that god might have mercy upon all , rom. 11. 32. and so this mercy of god to the world thou denies , and god respects no man's person , as in the acts , &c. and whereas , thou brings many scriptures to prove , that the saints by the light had faith , had gift to trust in him ; had power to become sons of god , and had christ dwelling in them by his spirit , and by faith , &c. ans . all these is nothing to the matter in hand , for the dispute was not about the saints having the light , for because believers had it , and was grown to such conditions , this doth not make out that the unbelievers had it not ; for god sends rain both upon the just and unjust ; and god so loved the world that he gave his onely begotten son into the world to enlighten the world ; that whosoever believed in him should not perish ; and such as do believe in him have faith , and comes to be sons , and comes to receive christ to dwell in them , and rule in them ; but those that hate light , will not have this man to rule over them ; and hath not god dealt to every man a measure of faith through the grace that is given ; and doth not the grace of god which appears to all men , bring salvation ? which is sufficient and justifies ? read timothy , tit. 2. rom. 12. and had not the unprofitable servant a talent to improve , and was not that talent , saving as well as the talent of the other two , that did improve them , if he had improved it , and doth not some that 's wicked , make shipwrack of faith , and of a good conscience , and turn the grace of god into wantonness , 1 tim. 1. 19. these departed from the faith , and erred from the faith , and cast off their faith , and tim. 5. 8. and the 16. 10. now by thy assertion thou sayes , these had not faith , &c. and whereas thou sayes , we brought nothing to weaken thy arguments but that scripture in the first of iohn 9. which saith , that is the true light that enlightens every man that comes into the world ; which we say is saving : but many other proofes we brought ( but thou regarded none ) out of iohn and esaiah , to prove that christ was the light and salvation to the ends of the earth ; and so thou are not only ignorant of scripture , but darker then the common-prayer book , for it saith , almighty god which sheweth unto all men that be in error the light of thy truth , to the intent they may return into the way of salvation , &c. and as for thy accusing us for wresting the scriptures and hard censures , we speak them as they were , but it was thou that wrested scriptures to maintain thy assertions , but could not ; and when thou manifested thy ignorance , m. f. told thee of thy ignorance , and as it did , and yet doth appear , and by denying and opposing the light , thou manifested thy self to be a miserable creature , and an enemy of god , and denyed the lord that bought thee ; and rich. cubam proved thee out of 2 peter 2. 2. and jude , to be the man that denyed the lord that bought thee , and to be that false prophet that brought in the damnable heresie , and through covetousness and feigned words made merchandize of people , and by such as thee the way of truth was evil spoken of ; and then ye were all in a noise and disorder , and went away in a tempest ; and that which thou didst assert in plain words , [ that god denyed faith to some men , ] which error thou hast left out of thy book , it is like thou was ashamed of that , and when thou was put to prove it , and give us scripture for it , thou seems to bring many , perverting them , but would not make it good by any , which yet it stands unmade good on thy head ; and it is proved before that the righteous had the faith , and such as was wicked had made shipwrack of it , which by the scriptures overthrows thy assertion ; and one of thy brethren said in the open dispute , [ that christ did not shed his blood for all men ; ] which is contrary to the scripture , that saith , he tasted death for every man ; and is a propitiation for our sins , and not for ours only , but for the sins of the whole world 1 fpist . joh. 2. and as in adam all dyed , even so in christ all shall be made alive ; which thou hast denyed , 1 cor. 13. 22. and thou manifested that thou was not a rational man , as george fox could thee , both in thy practice and carriage in the meeting ; who brake the order amongst us , which was , that all might speak one by one ; and thy laying violent hands upon tho. curwen ; and what margaret fell spoke of , thou hast made manifest that to the full , and my words , io. berley , will stand over thee , for drunkards and swearers will not deny the light , as thou dost ; it was the pharisees , and the chief priests that were most against christ the light , as thou art , as thou may see in the evangelists , and when it was put to thee to make good that christ did not shed his blood for all men , thou didst not then , nor yet make good ; but the scriptures is against thee and thy disciple , heb. 2. 9. that he by the grace of god , should tast death for every man ; the love of christ constraines us , because we thus judge , that if christ dyed for all , then all were dead , and he did dye for all ; that they that live should not henceforth live unto themselves , but unto him that dyed for all , 2 cor. 5. 15. and here thy judgment is contrary to the apostles , as thou may see , what error thou and thy people are in , contrary to the scriptures . and whereas thou hast published some part of ( i ) iames parkes letter , what was thou ashamed to publish it all , that the people might have seen the whole letter , but thou serves my letter , as thou dost the scriptures , take part , and leave out part , as thy father the old deceiver did , mat. the 4. and my letter is true to thee , for thou long deceived me , and led me captive in error and blindness , where thou art thy self , and also many others , from the light of christ jesus ; and i told thee , and writ this to thee in private , which thou hast made publick ; and it is well thou hast , that others may see thy folly and madness , who keepest people from the light and salvation , but praised be the lord i have escaped thy error . and it seemes thou art offended , because i henry wood called thee priest wiggan , was thou not chapel priest about manchester , doth not the country know it , i must not call thee captain , nor major , for thou hast not thy belt , and i cannot master and sir thee as thy hearers does , and it is like thou will be offended if i call thee john wiggan , and art not thou a priest still , hast thou not many collections about manchester , dost thou not live better now than thou could do out of prison ; for many of your priests have but bad tradeing , and are broken merchants , and whereas thou sayes thou art taught not to strive , nor to render railing for raileing , 2 tim. 2. 24. but to be gentle to all men , how was thou gentle when thou laid violent hands on john abrams , and was ready to tear curwen's coat off his back , so that he cryed out to thee , what , a minister of christ , and wilt thou fight , and yet thou praises thy self , thou art gentle and will not strive , when thy actions testifies against thee , that thou hates the light , and when thou said , the plagues of god was upon thomas curwen ; this is not rayling with thee ; and said , the spirit of the devil spoke in him , when he spoke truth to thee , and this was thy fury and madness , who art not fit to talk of the saints conditions ; and so it is manifest thou knows not what spirit thou art of , who dost not know the light of christ to be saving , neither hast thou shewed forth the fruits of the spirit of christ , with its workings : and whereas , thou would know , where any of the ministers of christ , or christ called any strange birth of the flesh , &c. it seems thou art ignorant of the scriptures as well as others , as long as thou hast been a merchant , for did not christ tell the pharisees , they were of their father the devil , iohn 8. and the apostle said to elimas the sorcerer , thou full of all subtilty , who perverts the right way of god : as thou dost , hindering people from believing in the light , ioh. 12. acts 13. and so we speak truth to thee , as thou art , we do not falsly accuse thee ; and now see thee where thou art , who long deceived us , but praised be the lord we are come to christ the saving light , which thou denyes , and its manifest what thou art , and what thy suffering is , in the darkness against the light ; and thou proves thy self a thief and a robber , who enters not in by the door christ , the light , but climbes up another way ; and therefore , the sheep knows thy voice to be the stranger , iohn 10. and we know what thy compassion is ; but thou wants power : thou hast manifested in this book , and the letters thou hast sent up and down to manchester and stopperd ; and thy deeds are manifest in the light which thou hates so much ; and the lord is rebuking the evil spirit , and judging it , and thou wilt feel the weight of his hand for thy maliciousness to his people ; and it is thou that hath mislead and misguided the simple , who brings forth arguments to no purpose , to strike at the corner-stone christ the light , it being fallen upon thee ; therefore , thy arguments is manifest to be to no purpose ; and therefore , thou art thus tormented ; and whereas thou savest , our corner-stone being struck at , then the building must needs fall to the ground : but i say , our foundation is christ the light , ioh. 8. which we know that thou , and all the generation of priests have struck at , till you are all tumbled down your selves ; but christ our corner stone , and foundation , and light , never fell ; but thine is fallen , and therefore thou ragest : and we do affirm in our words and printed books , that christ , who says he is the light , in joh. 8 , he is the dore , joh. 10. he is the quickning spirit , and he is the corner stone which god hath laid in sion , he is the truth , and he is the all , and in all and above all , according to scripture ; and to be believed in , and hath enlightned every man that comes into the world ; and he is the redeemer and the word ; and this thou denyest , christ the light , the quickning spirit , the way , the truth , the corner stone , the word , the foundation , the redeemer and the all ; and here indeed , thou hast denyed the corner stone , and christ jesus , which the prophets , christ , and the apostles testified of ; so thou hast manifested thy self against them : so never take their words to make a trade of any more . and thou canst not call christ the light , a quickning spirit , the way , the truth , the word , the foundation , the corner stone , the redeemer , this thou canst not call the true jesus thou sayst , we do believe thee , and that thou art an enemy to him , and them that walk in his light are manifest : and therefore have i richard gubbam proved thee a false prophet and antichrist , according to thy own-words , and we are come to repentance , and the knowledg of the truth , and thy ways be detected , whereby many simple hearts be turned from them , and so now we are many of us undeceived from such deceivers as thee , who calls christ the light , the word , the way , the truth , deceiving , but the lord rebuke thee who strives to keep ignorant simple people from the light , and in darkness thou wouldst aspire up as a judge of all conditions , and knows not thy own to be miserable , blind and naked , rev. 1. yet thou tell'st the reader what the light is , and what it can do , and what it cannot do ; and of what use it is , when thou in the darkness cannot comprehend it . and whereas thou tellest us of the light of the first adam , and the spirit of man is the candle of the lord , proverbs 20. and genesis 2. adam was made a living soul , 1. cor. 15. and thou sayest , this candle of the lord , or light in every man , is inferior to other lights , and is lower than the angels , and is limited and bounded , &c. and now would not this light have justified the jews , and adam ; and the candle of the lord , would not that have directed them in his way ; and did not david call the word of god a lanthorn to his feet , and a light unto his path : and is this thy spirit which is under the bonds and limits ; for where the spirit of god is joyned to , there is liberty ; and we do not tell thee of the light of adam , thou art gone from the matter ; but we speak of the light of christ jesus , the second adam , the lord from heaven : for our dispute was not about the earthly adam , the spirit of a man ; but our discourse was about christ the light of the world , the saviour ; and thou tel'st us of the light of adam ; this is thy dark wisdom , and like thy knowledge and experience of christ . and whereas thou say'st , the spirit of a man , or light in every man is understood to be the reason , or the understanding of a man , whereby he is adopted to know his creator ( viz. who made him according to david , psalms 59. 6. answ . here thou hast confuted thy self ; for can man be adopted to know his creator with his own spirit and reason , and his own light which thou call'st natural ; for the natural man knows not the things of god , and the spirit of man knows the things that be of a man ; even so the spirit of god knows the things that be of god ; and if all nations must know the lord god that made them , and serve him , and they are his people , and the sheep of his pasture , and they must worship and kneel before the lord their maker , and keep his laws , then they should have the spirit of god ; for natural men cannot discern the things of god , nor hear his voyee , nor worship him , as thou said'st before , so these scriptures over throws thy assertion , psal . 95. 6. and whereas thou say'st of this light , we may understand christ to speak . mat. 6. 23. therefore if the light in thee be darkness , how great is that darkness ? together with this light set up in every man , which shows him his creator ; that he is to be served , and how he is to be served ; of necessity there must be a law implanted in him ( which law is called light , prov. 6. 23. whereby the will and mind of his creator , which is imprest upon him , and made known unto him ; so that he by the spirit or light set up in him , could reflect this law , and understand the reason and reasonableness of it ; this was the fullest light in man before the fall ; he could look his god in the face , and come to his presence with the light , and serve him with gladness . answ . what error and confusion is this , if the light , which is darkness , shewed adam the face of god , and is that which shews the creator , and is the law in the heart which reflects upon people ; for that which is spoken of in the 6 of math. where christ saith , if that light that be in you be darkness , how great is that darkness ? which he spoke to the double ey'd state , which if the eye be single , the whole body is full of light . and adam before he fell , had no darkness in him , and if the law in the 6 of the prov. be darkness in men , with mat. 6. as thou comparest it , in thy blind & erroneous meaning , and so perverts the scriptures to thy own distruction , for the law is light , and the reproofs of instruction is the way to life ; and this we affirm to be saving , and not the light which is called darkness ; and the law of god which is placed in the heart , whereby the will and mind of god is known spiritually , and the things of god are known only by the spirit of god , and this is above mans reason , or spirit , or darkness , and keeps men in reason , out of darkness , and orders mens spirits to know the lord ; and herein thou hast manifested thy error and ignorance ; for men in the light which is called darkness , knows not god , nor in their natural estate as they are err'd from the spirit of god ; and adam was above that state before he fell , of men in the natural estate in the fall , whose light is darkness , and this is thy darkness and ignorance , in paralleling them together . and whereas thou sayst , since the fall this candle of the lord in man , is become exceeding dim to what it was , so that his understanding was darkned with blindness and ignorance , ephes . 4. 18. yet it is not wholly extinct , for then he could not exist , but would cease to be ; and the law which was written in mans heart , now is not so plainly to be read ; yet there is sufficient left to render god righteous in his proceeding against man , who hold the measure of knowledg left in them ( that is to say , of his eternal power and god-head ) &c. answ . by this thou hast contradicted thy self , and granted that every man hath the spirit ; for can any know the eternal power of god and his god-head , without his spirit . then do they not know christ , in whom the fulness of the god-head dwells in ; and before thou calls it natural , and darkness , and reason , and mans spirit , who art ignorant of the new covenant , christ jesus the light , which is given to all man-kind , who is beyond the first , which thou art groping in , & making nothing of , in thy dark understanding ; and yet thou compares it [ this candle ] to the light before the fall , and with darkness , one while is the spirit of a man , and another while is the spirit of a man , and another while is reason ; and where there is reason , there 's the spirit of faith ; and thus intrudes into those things thou never saw , which puffs up thy fleshly mind . 2. thou sayst what use is this light of , or what can this light in every man do since the fall . and again thou saist , this light or spirit of a man , searcheth all the parts of the belly , prov. 20. 27. or as the apostle saith , it medleth with the things of a man , 1 cor. 2. 11. for what man knoweth the things of a man , save the spirit of man which is in him , that manifests every action of man , it looks upon every thing done , or to be done , with a direct act of the understanding ; and this singly considered , makes not any thing that is done to be good or evil . answ . all may see how thou hast contradicted thy former words , which thou said , it manifests his eternal power and god-head , and it was the law in the heart ? and now it makes nothing to be good or evil [ thy light doth not ] and in this thou hast contradicted thy former sayings ; and how can god judge the world in righteousness , if the light that is in man shews him neither good nor evil . and this is contrary to rom. 2. 20. for that which may be known of god , is manifested in them , for god hath shewed it unto them ; by which they know good and evil , and doth the candle of the lord search all the inward parts of the belly , and manifests every action of man , and looks upon every thing done , or to be done , with a direct act of the understanding ; and yet the evil that a man doth , manifested to his understanding ; what contradictions and blindness is this , for if every action that a man doth is manifested , then sin is manifested , or else every action is not manifested ; and if this light manifests in man what is done , and what is to be done , this makes him a prophet , according to thy words , who has manifested thy self to beignorant both of the old covenant and the new : and that which is spoken of 1 cor. 2. the which thou brings to oppose the light in every man. and whereas thou say'st , when this light , or mans spirit reflects upon the law written within , according to which it is done , or not done , the evidness of the actions discovered , these reflects are of the soul , and is called conscience ; that is a knowing together with some else ; thus the law discovers the quality of the action , according to rom. 3. 20. by the law is the knowledge of sin ; now according to the conformity , or non-conformity that a man's actions bears to the law , such will its sentence be , and answerable to the sentence the law pronounceth , will be the excusations , or accusations of the person ; according to rom. 2. 15. which shews the work of the law written in their hearts ; their consciences also bearing witness , and their thoughts the mean while excusing or accusing one another : this is that witness which the lord hath left for himself in men , that he may be just when he judgeth the world , and every mouth stopped at the great day , rom. 2. 5 , 6. this manifested to adam his transgression , which made him hide himself , gen. 3. 13. this manifested to judas his sin , and caused him to bring back the money , and confess he had sined ; this may answer henry wood's query ; neither is this light only exercised in manifesting the things of man , even the secret and hidden things of the belly ; but it is also able to feel and seek after god his creator , acts 17. 27 , 28. and is in a capacity of knowing much of him as a creator at least , his eternal power and godhead , by the things that are seen , rom. 1. 19 , 20. thus far the light and law within every man may go . ans . what jumbled stuffe is this , and confusion , and contradictions ; can the light the spirit of man as thou callest it , know his creator at least , his eternal power and godhead , and to feel and seek after god ; when thou saidst before , the natural man knew not the things of god , nor the spirit of a man knew but the things of man ; now if all those knew the creator and the eternal power and godhead , and to feel and seek after god ; thou hast proved then that all have the spirit of god ; and by this , overthrown thy own assertion , as thou hast done often before ; and if they know the law of god , which soul and conscience effects upon , as thou faist , then they knew the things of god ; for the law of god is the things of god , and they are known by the spirit , and so thou brings the spirit of man , and the old covenant which thou calls light ; to oppose the new christ jesus , with thy dark wisdome ; and that in the rom. which saith , that which may be known of god was manifest in them , by which they did the things contained in the law , which was spiritually ; shewing the work of the law written in their hearts , which was spirituall ; and this was beyond the spirit of a natural man ; and when they transgressed this ; god did judge them in righteousness , by which every mouth was stopped , they were guilty before the lord , for that which god had manifested in them , witnessed against their actions and made them to confess gods judgments to be just ; and that which made adam to confess and hide himself , was beyond a natural mans spirit , for he knew god , and so he had the spirit of god to discern him ; and after he knew the promise of god concerning christ , which the faithfull and his posterity trusted in it ; christ the covenant of light to the gentiles , which thou fights so against . and judas was made partaker of the ministry of christ , and confest he had betrayed the innocent blood ; and so he had knowledge of the covenant , who is the end of the first law and covenant , and this knowledge of his , was beyond the light , which thou calls the spirit of a man , and beyond thy ignorance ; for david saith let another take his bishoprick ; mark that , and this is no answer to my queries h. w. as thou saist it is , neither hast thou done honestly in not puting my querie down , nor all my queries , that people might have seen them ; its like thou was ashamed , and afraid of that ; and therefore here are my queries , that all people may see them , and the paper i stuck upon the door when thou would not answer them . john wiggan , for the seed sake i cannot be silent , therefore as touching the queries which i spoke to thee of , face to face , and was not satisfied from thee , but thou slighted my query ; therefore i call upon thee to answer me , either face to face , or by writing , for thou maist remember , that thou yielded unto me , that he that did believe had the witness in himself ; but thou did not satisfie me where the witnesse was that did condemn , that is the thing i would know from thee , and in thy discourse that day , thou said all had not the spirit , and thou instanced judas ; now i would have thee tell me what that was , that caused judas to bring back again the silver , and confessed that he had sinned in that he had betray'd the innocent blood , i would have thee to write a distinction , that so i may know a difference between that which caused judas to confess , and the spirit ; and thou seemed to prove out of jude , that some had not the spirit ; but jude said , those were such as separated themselves , and seeing thou holds separation , and dost gather a people after thee ; therefore , clear thy self that thou be not one of those ; and further , one of thy hearers spoke with a loud voice , and said , that balaam had no more spirit then his horse . therefore consider , how thou and thy hearers perverts the scripture , read the 24. numb . and the 2 , 3. v. and when thou hast read them , then tell me when the spirit of the lord came on balaam's horse ? and thou john wiggan said , that faith was denyed to some ; and christ sent forth his disciples to teach all nations ; now , if they must teach all , then none was exempted ; but the pharisees said , have any of the rulers believed on him ; but these people that know not the law are cursed . so thou and thy hearers it seems doth not much let to oppose the apostles doctrine , which saith , the grace of god which brings salvation hath appeared to all men . therefore , i would know of thee whether this grace be a teacher , yea or nay ? and if any refuse to be taught by it , whether the cause be his own , or in the grace which hath appeared to all , as aforesaid : and thou or some of thy hearers said , that christ did not shed his blood for all , and that christ dyed not for all : clear thy self of these things , and see how thou canst make them good , and answer them in writing ; and then if thou present any queries to me , i shall not refuse to answer , so far as the lord opens it in me , henry wood. these queries have been unanswered at least a quarter of a year . and whereas thou saist it is a great light , and yet but a candle light , a created light , springing up with man in his natural birth , leading him to know something of his creator , and of his duty to him ; also discovering transgressions against the law of workes , which he was under ; the tenor whereof is this ; doe this and live , rom. 9. and this it may doe , where christ the way , the truth , and the life , is not so much as heard of ; thus it was in adam when he had sinned , as before the promise of grace was held forth in the seed of the woman , gen. 3. 15. the light and law within him discovered sin unto him , but mark the effect , horrour and amazement seized upon him ; i was afraid and hid my self , gen. 3. 10. for this law speakes nothing but wrath to all , that are in the fall , rom. 4. 15. notwithstanding amendment , and the most exact future obedience they can yield to it . answ . where , dost thou read in the scriptures of a created light , god created the sun , moon , and starrs , and was this the created light that made adam to hide himself ; and did this created light springing up with man in his natural birth , which thou calls the candle and spirit of the natural man , which knowes not the things of god , cor. 12. and this thou brought before , and is this created light the law of works ; do this and live ; and is this created light the spirit of man , that leads him to horror and amazement : nay , it is a divine light that lets a man see himself ; and all those scriptures doth not speak of a created light , or a candle light , which is the spirit of a natural man , leading him to know something of his creator , and of his duty to him : when the scripture saith , the natural man knowes not the things of gods how ignorant and carnal art thou , was the law of works the created light springing up , with the natural man ; for that was the law of god which is spiritual , which saith , do this and live ; as in the romans . and how was the lamb slain from the foundation of the world ; if adam had no more but a natural light springing up with man , and is the image of god , righteousness and holiness , which he was made in , a created light , and the candle and spirit of the natural man , as thou saist formerly ; in this thou manifests both thy ignorance and contradictions : for , that of god in all men , by which they knew their creator , and the things of him ; it is by his spirit by which thou hast said , they may know their creator by a created light , and by a candle , which is the spirit of a natural man. and thus , thou hast overthrown thy own assertion , and opposes the covenant of light , christ jesus , and art contrary to the scriptures , cor. 2. 11. and what is this to the purpose , as all being concluded under sin , we know that , and we know that the law is spiritual , and what it can do ; but we own christ the end of the law , for it served , till christ the seed came , who gives life . and whereas thou saist , the light which thou called natural , and making no distinction in this place betwixt that which is natural , and that which is spiritual , but saith the light flowes from the principles of nature , rightly called natural , and not spiritual ; and this thou would set up in opposition against christ the light , for the apostle spoke to the romans , how they were from the light , and from the law , and while men be in that which flowes from the natural man , they know not , neither the law that is spiritual , nor the light of christ ; and men obeying the light of christ , or the law of god ; it is not by that which flowes from nature , but from that which gives them a spiritual understanding ; for the natural man doth not know the things of god , and all those scriptures in the romans , galatians , and corinthians , is nothing to the matter of thy purpose , concerning the light of christ that doth enlighten every man. and whereas thou sayest , this light knowes nothing of the pretious gospel ministry , hid in god , nothing of redemption by christ , nothing of gods good pleasure , and purpose of grace ; nothing of the law of faith , the tenour whereof is this , &c. this all may see how thou hast contradicted thy self , by thy former words , for thou sayes , that this light is able to seek or feel after god his creator , and is in a capacity of knowing much of him , as a creator , at least his eternal power , and godhead ; and can this light let them know the eternal power and godhead , and nothing of christ , who is the power of god ; and nothing of the gospel which is the power of god ; and can a man know something of the creator , and nothing of his favour ; for is not his grace his favour ; and they that lived in the law was justified ; and they that were obedient saw christ the end of the law , and came to him who is the end of the law ; and beyond the natural man's spirit which thou talks of , so fast to no purpose , but manifests thy confusion , for to know god is eternal life , joh. 17. 3. and that is beyond thy natural man's light ; and we do know that they that believe in christ jesus the light ( which thou opposest ) shall have eternal life ; and we know that the law of faith is not natural , nor the light of christ that doth enlighten every man , nor the law of god , nor the promise of god with all the rights held in the faith ; and the seed christ shall bruse the serpents head ; and he is come a light and salvation to the ends of the earth , that enlightens every man ; and we know the law of faith is spiritual ; and whereas thou say'st , the law of works springs up with man's nature ; and the law is spiritual , and then this natural springs up with the spiritural : why how now john , where finds thou this in the scripture , the law is receiv'd from god , and not springing up with man ; what non-sence and confusion is this , what a mechanick man art thou . and thou saist , the law of faith was added because of transgression , and out of mere grace was founded on christ in the gracious promise . gen. 3. &c. answ . we say , neither the law of faith , nor the law of god , sprung out of mans nature , and the law which was added because of transgression , was not called the law of faith ; so thou errs , and art as wide in this as thou art about the light of christ ; i believe thy brother price would not say , that the law which was added because of transgression , was the law of faith ; and so thou art the vain man that would be wise , as thou say'st ; which is born like a wild asses colt , job 11. and gods thoughts are not as thine , but are as far different as the heaven is from the earth . and whereas thou say'st , man is not able by all his candle-light to know christ ; and yet thou said , before he could know the eternal power and godhead by this candle light ; and now thou sayes , the natural man cannot deser●e the things of god , because , they are spiritually discerned ; and before thou said , he might know much of his creator , and of the eternal power ; how now john , dost thou not think the least babe seeth thee here , thou needs not an aoster to discern thee . and whereas thou say'st , that this light is not able to discover or convince man of unbelief in christ , and yet thou sayes , this light will shew the eternal power and godhead , which fulness of the godhead dwels in christ ; and we know that the spirit of truth doth convince the world , which thou opposeth , the comforter and he is come , and why dost thou tell us of a natural light , or created light , or mans spirit , which it manifests thou knowes no more , but heathen like or athist like ; for it is the light of christ jesus the new covenant , which farre exceeds thy natural lights , and created lights , and man's spirit , and thy meanings ; and acts 13. 47. i have set thee to be a light to the gentiles , that thou should be my salvation to the ends of the earth ; and this overthrowes thy principles , for he the light is the salvation to the ends of the earth , who lightens every man , which is saving ; and galla. 3. 19 , 20. and 1 tim. 2. 5. this proves that christ the light is a mediator , which thou before deny'd , and christ the light hath manifested the love of the father to mankinde , and they that walk in the light sees it ; but thou that hates it , and talkes so much of thy natural light , and spirit of man ; knows it not , nor cannot comprehend it in thy darkness , though it shine in it ; and dost thou own that in mat. 11. revelation of the son , ( thy generation us'd to deny revelation ) for no man knowes the father but the son , &c. and yet thou saist man may know by the natural and created light , and natural man's spirit , the mind of his creator , and much of the eternal power and god-head , and so thou contradicts thy self and contradicts christ , and the apostles words , for the natural man perceives not the things of god , and that which may be known of god , is manifested in them , by which they know god , and no man knows the father but the son ( and is not the father the creator ) and he to whom the son will reveale him , ephes . 1. 17. joh. 3. 5 , 6. titus 3. 5. jo. 1. 12 , 13. gal. 4. 6. 1 cor. 6. 17. ephes . 2. 15. 1 cor. 15 , &c. these scriptures are spoken to such as received christ the light , through which they came to be the sons of god regenerated and born again , jo. 1. 7 , 8 , 9. and by this light manifest in them , they came to have the new mind , by which they were joyned to the lord , and eph. 5. and thou speaks of a new light , here thon perverts the scripture , and whereas thou saith , 2 cor. 4. which saith god commanded light to shine out of darkness , which shined in darkness , and the darkness comprehended it not , jo. 1. which shines into the saints hearts , ( and this light thou seemes to have denyed before ) which shines in our hearts , and gives us the knowledge to see thy confusion , the least babe of us , for this light gives us the knowledge of the glory of god in the face of jesus christ , and this thou strikes at , with thy candle-light , and created light , and natural light , which thou calls the spirit of a man ; but to no purpose is thy tempest risen , against the lord , and against his anointed , for it is the lord jesus christ , who is the councellor and leader of the people , whom we follow ; and such as follows him receives the spirit of adoption in their hearts , and can call god father : but what is this to thee , who denies his light , and calls it natural and created ; and is not that light saving according to thy own judgment , and will bring a man to know the creator , and the eternal power and godhead ; thou calls it natural mans spirit , which knows not the things of god ; and thou thus art confused ; but we tell thee christ jesus is the saviour of all men , who is the light of the world , and did not come to condemn the world as thou dost ; but that the world through him might have life , and to save the world ; and is the saviour of all men , especially , them that believe : and all these scriptures was spoken to the saints condition , ( and not to thine ) such who walked in the light which thou fights against . and whereas thou say'st it may appear by what thou hast said , how gross their mistake is , who call the light in every man , christ , and worship this as the redeemer , and the lord that bought them . ans . all that thou hast spoken hath been against christ , and it is to no purpose , and clears nothing , but hath made thy self darker , concerning christ the light : joh. 8. and joh. 1. which saith , that was the true light that lighteth every man that comes into the world ; and as many as receives him [ the light ] he gives them power to become the sons of god. and this light thou calls ( maliciously ) created and natural ; when didst thou ever hear any of us say , we worship a light within us ? this is thy gross mistake , we worship god in the spirit and truth , and christ is the truth ; and the apostle who was a minister , preached christ in people ; and was not he the lord that bought them , col. 1. 27. and this thou scoffest at , because , we confess it , and enviously calls it a natural light . and whereas thou say'st , it hath been cleared , that this light in every man is but the spirit of man , and the law written in the heart . ans . how darest thou say , that christ the light , that doth enlighten every man that comes into the world , which john came to bear witness of , is a natural light , then john came to bear witness to a natural light ; and the spirit of a natural man which knowes not the things of god , 1 cor. 2. and this natural light and spirit of man is the law , written in the heart , this is contradiction to the scripture , which saith , the law is spiritual . and whereas thou say'st , christ came to deliver from the terror and condemnation of this law written in the heart ; which thou calls natural light , and spirit of man. ans . doth nature terrifie , and condemn nature ? the jewes law was written in tables of stone ; the new law or covenant is written in the hearts , and christ did not come to redeem from the latter , but from under the jewes law ; and we never called the natural light , the created light , the natural man , christ , nor worshipped it , but thou must write to them that doth so ; yet thou art slack enough to do that i believe ; but it is christ the light that doth enlighten every man that comes into the world ; that 's it thou calls , a fictious christ , and an idol , if thou would speak plainly ; who is given for a covenant , a light to the gentiles , and the glory of israel ; whom we witness , and have the testimony of , luke 2. 32 , and whereas thou speaks , of denying the true jesus emanuel , god and man in union , whom his own person without us , not ours , hath by one offering once for ever wrought eternal redemption for us , and is the alone object of faith. ans . thou who hast denyed christ the light , that doth enlighten every man , that through him all might believe , joh. 1. 8. 12. thou hast denyed the true jesus , god and man in union , the emanuel , and the one offering which perfecteth for ever , them that are sanctified , hob. 10. so thou hast denyed thy salvation , and the object of faith , and christs doctrine , which saith , we must believe in the light , &c. and whereas thou say'st , it will follow that whosoever affirmeth and teacheth that the light in every man is christ , is a deceiver and an antichrist , 2 joh. 7. ans . here thou hast perverted , wronged and wrested the scripture to thy own destruction ; for the scripture saith , whosoever confesseth not , but denyeth christ come in the flesh , that 's the anti-christ , the deceiver : and doth not say , that christ the light that doth enlighten every man that comes into the world , is an anti-christ and deceiver ; but here priest wiggan hath called john an antichrist and deceiver , who came for a witness , to bear witness of the true light that lightens every man that comes into the world ; and i am the light , said christ , believe in the light , i am come a light into the world , joh. 8. 12. and they that did believe in the light had fellowship in it , and the light that shone in their hearts , gave them the knowledge of the glory of god in the face of jesus christ , 2 cor. 4. 1 ioh. 1. and so thou hast proved thy self to be an antichrist , and doth deny christ come in the flesh ; who enlightens every man that comes into the world ; and thou calls the true light of christ , which the saints and we walk in , the natural mans spirit , and a created light , and a natural light . as to thy objection which is against john , who saith , this is the true light that enlightens every man that comes into the world : would john have bid them believe in it , except it had been christ , joh. 1. 7 , 8 , 9. and this is an invincible proof against thy assertion , and all the people thou dost deceive ; and john was a true witness , but thou art a false ; and john bore a true witness to the light , but thou bears false witness against the light ; and so thou turns people from light to darkness ; and the true apostle turned them from darkness to the light , acts 2. 6. and whereas thou say'st , we write in several books , as may be seen , this light christ is god , the lord god , and the lamb , the object of faith ; and this true light which is christ , enlightens not some , but every man coming into the world ; and therefore , it must needs be saving , and that this light can be meant for no other then of christ , they further alleage john 3. 12. & 12. 35 , 36. where it is plainly exprest that christ is the light. answ . in this thou hast manifested thy ignorance of the scriptures , and of the saints testimony ; and thou scoffs , because we say , christ hath not enlightened some , but all , and so thou art he that makes sects amongst the people , in saying , he doth not enlighten them all ; thou may as well say , his love was not to all , in giving his son for all ; and we say , christ the light is the object of faith , the true light that enlightens every man that comes into the world , by whom the world was made ; and this is our testimony to all men , for the lord ; and christ is the light , and the lamb , and god is light : and this is our message which we have heard of him , that god is light , and in him is no darkness at all ; and christ and god will dwell in man ; whom we witness , glory to him for ever , through which we see over thee , who hath long deceived some of us . whereas thou say'st , we have perverted many scriptures ; that is false , for we speak them as they are , but it is manifest thou hast per verted many , and quoted many false ; and many people that doth not know thy subtle devices , but takes all things for granted , without any trial , such thou may deceive ; for thy book manifests it self sufficiently , if it had not been answered ; but only for the sake of the simple , which thou keeps under thee in thy error and delusion , that they might see thee , and come from under thy snare ; for we are satisfied as to our selves ; for thy work is only to keep people in darkness from the light ; and we are come from under thy captivity , and see thy subtlety and snares , and know what thou can say , and long enough since saw thy confusion . and thou say'st , when it is said , that was the true light which enlighteneth every man that comes into the world , it must be considered , first , who this true light is ; secondly , how he doth enlighten every man that comes into the world : for first , the scriptures do witness that this true light is the word god , by whom the world was made ; thus it is said , joh. 11. in the beginning was the word , and the word was god ; all things was made by him , that is , by the word god : john was sent to bear witness of the light , that is , of the word god , that was the true light , that is , the word god ; even he by whom the world was made , he was in the world , and the world knew him not , which was the creator and former of all things . ans . in this you may see how he hath perverted the scriptures , and overthrown his assertion , and his former writings in his books ; for he saith , that the light which lighteneth every man that comes into the world , which john bore testimony of , is the word god , by which all things was made and created , which men was to believe in , this was not a saving light saith he , though it be divine ; and doth he not call it a created light , a natural light , and the spirit of a natural man , and now it is god , and not saving ; for the scripture saith , the word was with god , joh. 1. and this speaks of christ , and christs name is called , the word of god , rev. 19 & 13. and the word was with god ; ( that thou hast left out , ) and this word became flesh . so he goes about to prove that christ was not the word with the father before the world began , which is contrary to the scripture , which saith , i was with him in the beginning , as solomon saith ; and christ saith , glorifie thou me with the same glory which i had with thee before the world was , joh. 17. and again thou say'st , the word god thus considered , is the true light , the fountain , and original of all lights , according to the scripture , 1 joh. 1. 5. god is light , and in him is no darkness at all ; this is he in whom was life , and the life was the light of men , in whom we live , move , and have our being , we are his off-spring , and he is the fountain both of light and life , to all beings according to their capacities , as their creator ; and thus we may see what this true light is , the word god. answ . and yet thou saist before , this was not saving , this true light , this word god , how dark art thou , is not christ called god , and his name the word of god , emanual god with us , and 2 pet. 3. 7. the heavens and the earth , which are now by the same word , are kept in store , &c. and heb. 11. 3. through faith we understand , that the worlds were framed by the word of god , &c. and christ is the light and life of men , and not saving , and is not he saving , and is not he spiritual and saving , whom all has a being in , and moving in ; didst thou not call him before a natural light and a created light , and a natural mans spirit , and would prove it out of cor. 2. and now it is god , and creator , and not christ , contrary to the scripture , which saith , he is the light of the world , and in the begining was the word , and the word was with god , and his name is called the word of god ; and so people may see how thou would divide god and christ with thy dark wisedome . and thou saist 2ly . how doth he enlighten every man that comes into the world ; and saist in another place , the word god , or god the word , as creator of all things doth enlighten every man that cometh into the world , by setting up in every man a spirit and law in his heart , by which he lives , which is called the candle of the lord , prov. 20. 27 of which spirit and law i have spoken before . ans . this light which thou callest the law and spirit of a natural man , and a created light ; this thou hast not proved before , as thou saist , but it s perverted before ; for by this thy proof john came to bear witness of a natural light , and of a natural mans spirit , which knows not the things of god ; and by that john bid people believe in this ; so this is thy dark wisdom , and like unto thy preaching , and it is no wonder people forsakes thee , and that thou shouldst be unestablished , thou needst not be offended for babes seeing thee , for thou caust not be hid ; for john came to bear witness of the true light christ , and not of a natural created light , as thou imagines ; but of him the prophets testified of , he that was preferred before john , joh. 1. 3. the light of the gentiles , and the glory of his people israel ; and thou may see in the 15. vers . which proves , and 16 , 17. that was the christ ; john bore witness of him , and cryed saying , this was he of whom i speak , he that cometh after me , is preferred before me ; and called christ , the lamb of god that took away the sins of the world ; and this light by which all things was made and created , he came unto his own , and they received him not ; some hated the light , and stopt their ears , and shut their eyes , and would not see , lest they should be converted ; ( as thou dost ) but to as many as received him , he gave power to become the sons of god ; them that believed in his name , and his name is the word of god , rev. 19. and john saw , and bore record that this light was the son of god , joh. 1. 12 , 15 , 34. so , this is an unfaithful and untrue account of the light which thou hast given of the true light , christ , that doth enlighten every man , john 1. 9. and whereas thou say'st , it may be further observed that christ is not once named in all , or any of the first nine verses of the first of john , but only the word . answ . see how ignorant this man is of the scriptures , for it saith , the word was with god ; mark that ; and doth thou deny this to be christ , whose name is called , the word of god , rev. 19. heb. 1. how god hath spoken in these last dayes unto us , by his son , by whom the world was made : and so here again , he would make a difference betwixt christ and god , and because the word christ is not there , see how he shuffles , and how ignorant he is ; for , christ is called , the light , life , truth , and word , &c. and christ is called , the lamb of god , joh. 1. and john doth expresly say , that he is the light of the world , joh. 8. and doth enlighten every man that comes into the world , which true light john bore witness of , that all through him might believe : and thou has denyed christ to be the word , who is the light of the world , and doth enlighten every man that comes into the world : there is three that bears record in heaven , the father , the word , and the holy ghost ; so thou hast denyed this record in heaven , who saist , the word is not christ , who was with the father ; spoken of in john , the word was with god ; and 1. john 552. vve are in him that is true , in his son jesus christ , this is the true god , and eternal life . and so thou goes about to make people believe christ is not god ; and we know the vvord was made flesh , and dwells in men ; which thou saist , he tabernacled amongst men , as though he did not now ; which we must tell thee he doth now , by the light which shines in their hearts , cor. 2. 4. and whereas thou saist , christ the word being imbodied in flesh , he is thenceforth called christ the lord , or the lords christ , and no otherwise doth he bear that name , but as he is the word made flesh , to be seen and believed on , it is not the word alone , nor the flesh alone , but the word and flesh in union , that is called christ ; and is a light to lighten the gentiles , till then there was no such thing as a christ , or a light to the gentiles , but only in a promise . ans . whereas thou saist , there was no such thing as a christ , till he was imbodied in flesh , nor light to the gentiles , but only in a promise . then what was that light which let nebuchadnezzar see the stone cut out of the mountain without hands ; and let job see his redeemer ? and doth not stephen say that was christ they thrust from them , and turned back again in their hearts into egipt ? acts 7. and was not that christ the word which moses spoke of to the children of israel , that they should hear , and need not say , who shall ascend , or who shall descend ? and did not the apostle say , that was christ , in rom. 10. and this the righteousness of faith that moses spoke of to the children , deut. 30. 12. the vvord was in their hearts and mouthes ; and doth not david call him the anointed ? as in psal . 2. 2. and is not the anointed christ ? and daniel calls him messiah , which is christ , dan. 9. and saw him before he came , and is not the word , christ ; which is according to the law and testimony , isa . 8. and how was he a lamb slain from the foundation of the world ? and is it not said in gen. 3. 15. the seed of the woman shall bruise the serpents heads ; and is not the seed christ , gal. 3. 16. and christ said , before abraham was i am ; and thus saith the lord to his anointed to cyrus whose right hand i have upholden to subdue nations before him . and what thinks thou by this , what is anointed ? is christ no where spoken of before he was imbodied in flesh ? and we believe he was made flesh , and know it , and are of his flesh according to the scripture ; and we do know the union of christ , and the word that was made flesh ; but thou believes not in this christ , the word which was made flesh , who is the light of the gentiles , and the glory of israel ; and he could not be christ without god , who is manifest in the flesh , which is a mistery to thee ; and we know that christ thorow the gospel has brought life , and immortality to light , and the son of god is come . and what dost thou talk of grace , and denies his light ? and what dost thou talk of the love which was in the fathers bosome ? for thou who denies him , who is the light of the world , and that dost not believe in him [ the light ] how should thou have everlasting life , but perish in thy gain-saying ? and thou saist , that christ did not come to enlighten every man that comes into the world , but only those that believe on him , and brings ioh. 3. & 19. & 8. 12. ans . this is thy saying , and not iohns , thou hast wronged those scriptures , for none of them doth say that christ did not come to enlighten every man that comes into the world , but only those that believe , thou hast not proved this by the scriptures , though thou hast perverted many : for iohn 1. said he was the true light that lighteth every man that comes into the world ; and thou saist , but only those that believe : and christ says , i am the light of the world , and believe in the light , and ioh. 3. 19. 8. 12. doth not say there , he hath only enlightned some , but all good and bad , such as hate the light and would not come to it , lest the light should reprove them whose deeds be evil , this is thy condition ; and the condemnation is because that light is come into the world , and men love darkness rather than light , because their deeds be evil , but he that doth truth , cometh to the light , that his deeds may be manifest , that they are wrought in god ; but thou art not come to the light , whose deeds be evil , and so manifests that they are not wrought in god , but fights against it . and whereas thou speaks , the word made flesh is he that was promised to be a covenant to the people , and a light to the gentiles , who brings into the world a life and light far exceeding the light that was set up in every man that comes into the world , by the word creator . answ . this word made flesh , and covenant of light , which the prophets gave testimony of , as in the 1 of john , thou denyes , and in joh. 8. and luk. 2. a light to lighten the gentiles , and this was christ , for john saith , he was not the light , but came to bear witness of the light , that was the true light , that lighteth every man that cometh into the world. and this is above thy natural light , and created light , and made light ) and doth give life ; and dost thou not mean the scripture , when thou speaks of the word creator ? for we have good reason to suspect thee , seeing thou said to me ( thomas curwen , and to william wilson ) in thy chamber , that the scriptures were the author of thy faith ; for the rest of thy generation used to tell us , that the scriptures was the word , and the light of the creator , is a natural and a created light , and the spirit of a natural man ( that knows the things of god ) and this is the light that john came to bear witness of , saist thou . and this thy miserable darkness , in saying iohn came to bear witness of a created and natural light , and spirit of a man , and a natural mans conscience , that he should be sent of god , to bear this witness ; for as many as received him , ( this light which did enlighten them ) became the sons of god , but they that hated this light , it became their condemnation joh. 3. joh. 1. 12. and thou , nor none will never receive life nor son-ship , but as they receive the light which thou hates , & makes such outrage against , but that light which iohn bore witness of , which thou bears witness against , has ript off thy covering , & manifested thy deeds , & turned thy inside out : and the light is a stumbling block to thee , and a rock of offence , for it seems , it has offended thee , an thou that would not have the light , will not have the son , and so has denied thy self of life , yet thou wilt bow the knee , and spit in his face , and say , is not this the carpenters son , the natural light , like the jews : and where doth the scripture say ( which thou hast perverted ) that iohn came to bear witness of the light , the word , creator , and not of christ the ligh the word ; make this good , by plain scripture , without thy immaginations , and before they be born again , they must believe in the light , iohn the 12th . and so men are in death and darkness , and hates the light as thou dost , and remains in the natural state , while they hate the light , for that which makes manifest is the light , ioh. 3. ephes . 5. 13. and thou saist , the neglect of this distinction of the word creator , and the word made flesh ( which is so plainly laid down in the scripture as hath been shewed ) is the ground of the great mistake of many , who not considering what is testified of the word as creator , do confound that light which is set up by him , ( as such ) in every man , with that light which he gives as he is the word made flesh , and so call the light saving , which is but natural , springing up with him in his creation ; yea , hence they call that light , christ , which is but the law written in the heart , whereas christ is the law-giver , and so cannot be the law. ans . here thou holds forth two words , and was it not the word that became flesh ? and doth not john , revel . 19. say , that he is the alpha and omega , and his name is called the word of god ? so here is one word , but thou hath not found another word , and so to make two words ; and here thou goes about to divide christ , when the scripture saith , i and my father are one , joh. 17. and there is three that bear record in heaven , the father , vvord , and holy ghost , and these three are one ; ( he doth not say two words , ) joh. 5. 7. and is not the new covenant christ , the law in the heart , hob. 8. 9 , 10 , 11. and it is false , for we do not call the natural light springing up with man in his creation saving ; but we say , christ is the light and salvation to the ends of the earth . and the light which is natural , that comes from the word creator , by which they may know the eternal power and god-head , as thou saist before , by which they may seek and feel after god , and brings cor. 2. which saith , the natural man doth not know nor perceive the things of god. was there ever such confusion as this ? for they that had that which let them see the eternal power and god-head , was by that which might be known of god , which was manifest in them ; for that which brings people to know the eternal power and god-head , and to feel and seek after him , and to know much of the creator , is not a natural light , as thou saist doth , but it is a spiritual light ; and it is thou that confounds thy self with thy own imaginations , and distinctions , and wrongs and abuses the scriptures , and is not fit to take them into thy mouth ; for thou hast made a trade of them too long , and the light christ jesus , who ends the law. and where doth the scripture speak of a natural light , and a created light , from the word creator , springing up with people in their creation ? for a natural light makes him but a natural man still , by which he cannot know much of his creator , who is spiritual as thou saist , nor seek and feel after god , nor know his eternal power and godhead , for the natural man perceives not the things of god , but they are foolishness to him , for they are spiritually discerned ; but it is christ the true light which iohn came to bear witness of ( which thou calls natural ) which men are to believe in , so thou leads people from the true light christ jesus , and so to hate christ ; and so thy self and them both into condemnation , ioh. 3. and the light will be thy condemnation , fight against it as long as thou wilt , for it is the saints armor ; for , put on the armor of light , saith the apostle to the saints . and whereas thou writes to thy people to keep them from the light christ jesus , which light thou art afraid of coming to , but many is come to it : and further thou tells thy people of trembling , nay they are far off that ; thou and thy people are rather in scorn against the light of christ , and calls it natural : and whereas thou saist , how destructive and pernitious will the light of christ which we speak of ( and iohn bore testimonie of ) prove to pretious souls ; and thou saist , admit this grand lye for the corner stone , and the whole superstructure will consist of lyes . answ . this is thy envy against christ the light , and foundation which destroys the lyer and lyes , for there is no lie of the truth ; and thy foundation consists of nothing but lyes against the truth , for thou and thy generation of priests , has long prophesied falsly against christ our rock and foundation ; and that we should fall , untill you be all tumbled down your selves : and many of your merchants are turned bankrupts ; oh that thou wert but in authority , thou wouldst shew other weapons against them that walks in the light of christ ! but god has broken thy horn , and truth remains the same as ever , and shines over all your heads , glory to the lord god for ever . and thou saist , open this as the first door of entrance ( as they do ) and it leads into a babell of confusion and errors , no sooner is a man entred in at this deadly gate , but he is in the city tohn where first ( if his eyes be anointed with eye-salve by the true iesus ) he may behold this image of iealousie , viz. the light that is in every man that comes into the world . answ . thou calls the light of christ , which iohn came to bear witness and testimony of , an image of jealousie , that leads into the city tohu , and into a babell of confusion , &c. what doth iohn come to bear testimony of such a light as this is , that people was to believe in as he saith ? doth the scripture speak any such words in john 1. 9. what railing expressions is here against the true christ jesus , who enlightens the gentiles , and the glory of israel . this is just the jews , who said , he had a devil : might not margaret fell justly call thee a blasphemer ? and what dost thou talk of the true jesus , and eye salve , when thou deniest him the true light who is the door ioh. 10. but you are all seen who deny the light to be gone into tohu and confusion , and the least in the light of jesus , sees your images of jealousies fall down one after another . and you are also faln with them in darkness , who denies the light with the earthly wisdom . and whereas thou saist , set up and worshiped in prayers and praises , all the honour and attributes due to the true redeemer alone , being ascribed to it , which is an idolatry so much worse than that of ieroboams and the papists , by how much it is the more mysterious , and in shew the more spiritual , and so less diseernable , whence it comes to pass , that multitudes are insnar'd by it , according to that in 2 pet. 2. 2 many shall follow their pernicious ways ; the falling down to this image , is that whereby every particular person is matriculated or registred into their society of friends ; for now , and not before ( as they say ) he hath received the truth , and notwithstanding many defects , is accepted as a friend . ans . here thou hast manifested thy lyes , envie and malice , not only against us , but against christ the light , and the prophets and apostles testimonie , for it is god we worship in the spirit , and in the truth ; and god is well pleased with us in him ( christ ) and they that followed christ the light , was his friends ; and so we which believe in the light , and walk in the light , are children of the light : and because many is come to walk in the light , and have fellowship in it , this makes thee to rage against us and our fellowship in the light , and in it one with another ; and what are the defects thou slanders our friends withall ? for we can call all people friends , but they that be in the truth are friends in the truth , [ christ ] who is the redeemer ; and thus to pray to christ , thou saist is an idolatry , and worse than that of ieroboams , and of the pepists . mind the spight and envy , and malice of this man , and what mischief he utters forth against the light of jesus , and them that pray in the light , & in the spirit to christ & god , as the saints did ; and this is become an idolatry with i. vv. worse then that of ieroboams & the papists ; & he saith this leads people into pernitious ways , but that is false , and an error ; for christ the light leads none into pernitious wayes , but thou art deep in them ; who causeth the way of truth to be evil spoken of ; and speaks evil of the right way , and makes lyes thy refuge ; and art compassed with a cloud of error , fighting against the lord and the lamb , but he will have the victory ; for we matter not what thou can speak against us , but when thou speaks against the lord we are bold , and valient , to declare against such , who art promoting thy permitious wayes against christ the light , the way , who is a mystery to thee , and whom thou saist is a pernitious way , because many goes in at it ; was there ever such error uttered ? but it will fall upon thy self ; and this makes thee to rage because babylon is fallen , and she is loosing some of her children : and because we praise god in the truth , and will not follow the priests , but followes christ the light , and honours the lamb ; this thou calls an idol , and worse then that of jeroboams , &c. and as for papists , dost thou not know that two baptist preachers in essex are turned papists , who were railing against the light of christ as thou dost , who art fallen in the dark , that the very words in the common-prayer may judge thee , who in thy pride looks to be far above that . before thou saist , that the light would lead people to see much of their creator , and of his eternal power and god-head , and bring people to seek and feel after god. and now thou saist , it is an idol and an image of jealousie , and worse then that of jeroboams and the papists , and leads into pernitious wayes , and into the city tohu , and into a babel of confusion and errors : how now john , thou hast sure forgotten thy former words , was there ever the like confusion heard ? it could not be believed that ever such wickedness had ever been in a man covered under a feigned humility . and whereas thou saist , vve pray and sing , and teach all , or many together , with loud voices contrary to 1 cor. 14. 33 , 40. ans . thou makes no shame of lying , and to publish them abroad to villifie the truth , for all people that knowes us , knowes thou art a lyer ; for neither thou nor any hath heard us speak , or pray , all together in words with loud voices ; neither hath any of us in our meetings been heard speak seldom , but one by one ; but if others have praised the lord when they heard others speak , and sung praises to the lord god ; ( which thing torments thee , ) and if others have lifted up their voices to the lord god when others have been praying together , shewing the lively power of the lord god amongst us ; which torments the deadness of thy assembly , and makes thee thus rage , for in the 1 cor. 14. they might speak two or three , and the rest might judge , and this is decent order ; but it is disorder in thy dark assembly ; thou would say 24. elders that fell down together and praised the lord was a confusion , rev. 4. and make a joyfull noyse , as david saith often ; but these corinthians were in a confusion about their bread and wine , as thou and thy priests are ; but thou art like to the jewes at pentecost that said , the apostles were drunk . and acts 24. in a meeting when they lifted up their voices with one accord , and said , thou art worthy lord god of heaven and earth , who hath made the heavens and the earth , sea , and all things that is in them : but this thou will sure say was confusion , and whereas thou saist , we call our selves a meeting , not a church , and the particular members , friends , not brethren and sisters : ans . here thou hath manifested thy self to beignorant of the scriptures , isa . 1. 13. which calls the assemblies of the church , a solemn meeting ; and the lord gives it the name of a solemn meeting ; the church was met together , and the brethren met with the apostles , acts and amos 4. 12. prepare to meet thy god ; and they met with jesus crying hosanah , with palm-trees and branches in their hands , joh. 12. 13. and thou would say this was a confused multitude . and further , thy ignorance is manifested in the scriptures , because we call one another friends , thou art troubled , acts 29. 3. paul had liberty to go see his friends , and christ saith , ye are my friends , and i have called you friends , joh. 3. epist . ver . 14. our friends salute , and greet the friends ; and so because we say friends , and meeting ; this is to set forth a new jesus thou maliciously saith ; but thou art a manifest lyar , both by our words and writings ; for , we call our meetings , churches , and our friends , brethren and sisters ; and so here it will be seen , that we do not characterize our selves by new names , which thou hast falsly , and maliciously charged upon us ; but , thou hast given thy self up to forge lies , and work wickedness ; for no other jesus but him , who is the same to day , yesterday , and for ever , do we own ; who is the light of the world , and enlightens every man that comes into the world , which hath been proved before ; whom john was sent of god to bear witness of , that all through him might believe ; and as many as receives him he gives power to become the sons of god ; which thou blasphemously calls christ the light an idol , and natural light . and whereas thou saist , vve cannot find the names or offices of pastor , elder , deacon , teacher , which christ set in his church . ans . here the very common people will witness against thee that thou lyest ; for the work shewes it by the care and order that nothing is lacking ; for we have more in our church then the names of those offices , we have the fruits of them , for nothing is wanting amongst us ; we have the great bishop , & are taught of god , & do know the lord from the greatest to the least , heb. 8. but what is become of your teachers and pastors , and deacons , who made such a noyse against us a few years ago , who had the name but out of the life and power . and whereas thou saist , vve do not alledge scripture for our doctrine for proof , but vvomen speak in our meetings . here again thou adds lyes , to lyes , and delights in lyes , psal . 62. 4. and art a deceitful witness speaking lyes , prov. 14. 25. and hast bent thy tongue like a bow for lyes , jer. 6. and so speaking lyes in hypocrisie , 1 tim. 14. for we had never meeting nor discourse with people , but we prov'd our doctrine by scripture ; and at the last dispute thou had scripture brought to prove the truth against thee ; and out of peter and jade , proved thee to be the man that denyed the lord that bought thee . and as for thy denying womens speaking , thon has herein manifested thy ignorance of the scripture ; for christ seat mary magdalen first to declare his resurrection unto his disciples , marke 16. and that the daughter of phanitel she declared of christ to all that looked for redemption in jerusalem . luke 2. and. phebe a servant of the church ; which in some translations is a pastor ; and priscilla and aquilla instructor's ; and philip had four daughters prophesied ; and women were labourers with the apostle in the gospel , read acts and romans 16. women prophesied 1 cor. 11. and acts 2. & joel 2. sons and daughters prophesie . and thus john wiggan can make no distinction between those women that are forbibden to speak , and those who are incouraged and commended ; his envy hath so blinded him , but limits the holy one , that his folly might be manifest to all men , for christ in the male and female was not to be limited , nor prophesye to be despised , 1 thes . 5. but thou hast manifested thy self to be contrary to christ and his ministers , and so proved thy self to be a false minister , and one of the false teachers , that puts no difference between the pretious and the vile , and a walker in lyes , jer. 23. and so it is thou that teachest lyes in the name of the lord ; and was mary magdalen a jezabel , and priscilla , phebe anna , the rest of the women the apostle forbids speaking as in tim. &c. how ignorantly dost thou apply the scripture , and wickedly , but this manifests thy judgment of them , but thou art more ignorant than some of the baptists , for some of the baptists would allow women to speak , but thy envy hath eaten out thy sight , and the least of our disciples sees thee to make lyes thy refuge , and who lives in the truth sees thee . and whereas thou saist , we say the scriptures are not a rule of faith and conversation to walk by , hence it is that christs water baptism , and supper , and his censures are rejected . ans . if the scripture be thy rule for thy life and conversation , then why dost not thou obey it ? for if the scripture be thy rule , then thou must burn offerings , and sacrifices ; and if but part of it be thy rule ; why didst not thou set down what part it is ? but we say christ is our rule ( which doth also the scriptures ) math. 2. 6. where it is said he shall rule the people , and he is the author and finisher of our faith. and give us that scripture that saith , the scripture is the author of mans faith , and mans rule ; and as for thy bread and wine and outward washings , thou knowst little more than that , nor hardly that , for if thou didst , thou would'st have answered my queries , but thou darest not confess to the power the apostle was in , and we look at things that be eternal , 2. cor. 4. and not at the things which are seen ; and such as are risen with christ , seek those things that be above , col. 3. and as for the outward things , we know them where they be , and do not deny nothing in its place , but our life is in christ ; but thou shelters thy self in outward things , to keep alive in thy old nature , out of the baptism into the death of christ , rom 6. 3. and as for thy censures ; you have censured one another , till you are broken to pieces ; and where doth the scripture speak of christs censures ; and christ being within , he is the rule and ruler , and king , ( this is scripture ) within the saints , 1 col. 27. christ in you , 2 cor. 4. canst thou not see this scripture within , but thou hast made a trade of them so long , that thy gain hath blinded thee , and was not all the scriptures given forth from the spirit of god within , by inspiration of the spirit , 2 tim. 3. and is not the new covenant , the law written in the heart , the scripture within , heb. 8. jer. 31 , 30. and this scripture within , thou makes a mock and scoff at . and the same gospel as ever was , the power of god we own , and are not ashamed of rom. 1. 16. vvhich gospel of christ is the power of god to salvation , and christ saith , the spirit of truth should lead them into all truth ; and was not that their rule , and if the scripture be the rule , what was the guide into the rule to know the things of god , for thou sayest the natural man know not the things of god , for they are spiritually discerned ; then the spirit must be the rule ; and they that are the sons of god are led by the spirit of god , 1 cor. 2. and joh. 14. and is not the law written in the heart , the perfect law of liberty , the law of love , the law of faith in the heart ; dost not thou see this is a scripture jam. 5. 25. heb. 8. rom. 3. 17. and is not this faith within to be obeyed , rom. 10. dost thou not here manifest thy darkness to all people , and is not this faith held in a pure conscience , which the just lives by , 1 tim. 1. 19. thou mightst be asham'd to scoff at the practice of the saints , and at the scriptures ; but in thy dead faith thou calls light darkness , and darkness light , as in isay : who makes such an outrage against the light , because we say the light is in the heart , and the spirit of god to guide us , is within , according to scripture which speaks of the rule of faith , let christ rule in your hearts by faith . thou hast put him out of his place , & preferred the scripture before him : and what rule had abraham and the saints in the old world before the scripture was written . and whereas thou speaks falsly , accusing and speaking untruths , and persecuting with the tongue and acts of injustice , and thou sayes this we do in obedience to god , and to our guide . ans . thus thou further vents thy lies and malice ; for , the lord god who is pure , and christ our light leads us to no such thing but we speaking truth to thee , and tells thee what thou art without flattery ; therefore , makes thou thy complaint of persecution with the tongue ; but , thou hast the persecuting tongue ; and when thou proves thy other slanders against us , then may thou have a further answer , for we own no injustice . and whereas thou saist , we say the light in every man is the object of faith , and a common sufficient light , that it is salvation to all that obey it , and that we teach free will , &c. ans . here again thou adds lye to lye , perverting our words as thou dost the scriptures , and speaking thy own , for we say christ is the light of the world , and his grace is sufficient for all , and hath appeared to all men , tit. 2. and believe in the light , saith christ , joh. 1. 8 , 12. and christ the light is the author of faith , and we say it is not he that wills or runs , but that god shews mercy , which none is to abuse . and whereas thou saist , we teach and set up an inherent legal righteousness , denying the imputed righteousness of christ wrought in his own person without us ; that christ fulfilling the law in us , or his spirit , mortifying , or sanctifying , and fulfilling the law in us , is justification ; therefore , no coming of christ but that within , and so deny the 2d . coming of christ , contrary to scripture , & these & many more arminian , popish & long since profligated errors is laid upon their sandy foundation . ans . here thou adds more lies , for christs second coming we do not deny , and he the righteousness of god we own , and never denyed , and it is a false slander of thee to say otherwise ; and our foundation is christ , which thou wickedly calls sandy , isai . 28. who is a tryed stone , 2 tim. 2. and the legal righteousness is thy own , it s none of ours , 1 cor. 1. and the righteousness of faith which saith the word is nigh thee in thy heart , and in thy mouth , we own ; which thou enviously calls an inherent legal righteousness , romans 10. and that which christ wrought and did in is own person , and suffered without the gates of jerusalem for mankind we own , and never denyed which thou maliciously slanders us with the contrary , and he is revealed within us , and that makes thee to rage ; and all our books which thou speaks of , are according to the scripturea of truth , and to christs and the apostles doctrine ; but thy principles are according to the old errors thou speaks of . but thou saist thou hast done with our principles , thou needs not enlarge upon our hay , wood , and stubble , being assured the removing of our foundation , which thou saist thou hast done , will bring down our whole building . ans . we are gods building , 1 cor. 3. and we have a building of god , ephes . 2 , and christ is our foundation , which remains and stands sure , 2 tim. and we are built upon the foundation of the prophets and apostles , christ himself being the head corner stone , the lord hath laid our foundation , and no other foundation can any man lay , 1 cor. 3. 11 , 12. zach. 8. 12. eph. 2. 2. tim. 2. and as for hay , wood , and stuble , it is thy own , and will be burnt up , who has denyed christ the light , the foundation ; and called him a natural , and created light , and idol ; but thy foundation and building is down together , it 's hard to know where it stood ; and where are all your builders and daubers ; and now after all thy slanders and raylings , thou wouldst make people believe thou lovest our persons , and when thou hast uttered all thy lyes and malice , thou in hypocrisie and feigned humility , would make people believe thou pittiest us ; but we know what thy pitty is ; but we are come to the true jesus , who takes pity of our souls ; though thou long deceived many of us ; i believe that few people would hardly have believed that there had been so much poison & venom in thee , & thou hast denyed christ , the light , the way , truth & life , & calls him natural and created , and so art in the error thou speaks of , and thy bowels is the belly of hell , jonah . 2. and what hast thou to do to take the lords name in thy mouth , and hates to be reformed ; but thou art one of them that uses thy tongue , saying ; thus saith the lord , when he never spoke to thee , jeremiah 23 thou saist , thou hast born thy testimony against us , in that which appears in us , against the mystery of christ crucified . ans . christ jesus which was crucified , which thou slanderously saist we deny ; but him we own , it is thou that denies him to be crucified , in denying his light , for we preach christ crucified , 1 cor , 1. 23 2. cor. 2. and him that the jews crucified , who were in the same envious spirit with thee , against the light , jo. 1. mat. 20. 19. and mark 15. 13. luk. 23. 23. rev. 11. 8. we are crucified with christ , gall. 2. 20. and if thou hadst written fewer errors , it had been better for thee ; but praised be the lord god , thy deeds are brought to light and this is a poor shift for thee to come off so , after thou hast laid down thy assertions and cannot maintain them , nor canst not make them good ; for our questions was learned questions and tended not to strife , and yet stands on thy head unanswered ; and thou and all which thou hast declared , hath been against god and christ , so that thou art one that bears false witness against him , not for him : and thou hast manifested the error of thy judgment , for thy understanding is error , psal . 19. mat. 22. 22. 1 tim. 6. 10. and that which thou hast done hath been against christ the foundation of the prophets and apostles ; and thy commendation of us is reviling , and slandering , for it is manifest thou hast a double tongue unbridled , jam. 1. tim. 3. 8. and with thy tongue thou thinks to prevail , psal . 12. but a lying tongue , ( prov. 12. 19. ) is but for a moment , and he that uses slanders is a fool , prov. 10. 18. but we cannot walk with slanderers , jer. 6. 20. and thou saist , our principle hath had its growth and advantage from these means ; from the pride , covetousness , formality , idleness , and cruelty , corrupt oustomes , idolatry , superstition of parish priests , and the generality of their hearers . ans . and john wiggan trencher chaplain shall be put in amongst them : and thus , when you were in your wickedness as thou speaks of before , and mocked god with your religion , as the end of it hath manifested it self , god hath overturned it , and stained your glory , and your pride , which went before your destruction , prov. 16. 18. then the lord had compassion upon us in your day , when no eye pittied us ; and revealed his son in us , who is our shepherd and leader , and salvation , ezekiel : and thou with the rest railed against us in your idleness and pride , and carnality ; and who was mader against truth then your separated congregations in railing against the light and spiritual teaching ; and who were taught of god , and christ , and followed him , and would not follow your pernitious wayes ; and when we prophesied to you of your down-fall , both in your towns and cities , and army , you abused us , prisoned us , and persecuted us ; though all the things is come to pass upon you which we then spoke , and yet thou in thy envy and malice art railing against the truth , the light , christ , that it should spread , but thou had rather the evils before mentioned should spread , idleness and pride , &c. and our testimony was born against your pride and hypocrisie , in the truth , and spirit , and power of jesus , against all your false worships , and churches , and teachers , which god hath thrown down according to our testimony ; and you were found treacherous to your own principles in all things ; for we faithfully bearing our testimony for the lord god to you , as he gave to us ; and for standing faithful to him , we were prisoned , and had our goods spoyled by you ; and now you are murmurers against us , because truth stands , and your foundation is fallen to the ground ; and thou wickedly termes the true christ who is light to be antichrist . and whereas thou saist , antichrist doth never oppose christ more then when he appears in a mystery , when he comes in the name of christ , and pretends to be all for christ , reproving much that is evil , and pleading for many commendable things : thus our saviour tells us many false christs shall arise , mathew 24. 24. in sheeps cloathing , mathew 7. 15. in so much that if it were possible they should deceive the very elect. ans . this is directly thy own condition , who appears in a mystery to oppose christ the light ; but we cannot say of many commendable things thou hast done , or sins reproved ; and neither mat. 24. nor mat. 7. saith that antichrist shall do many commendable things , or reprove sins , for that which reproves sin is the spirit which antichrist is gone from ; christ said antichrist and false prophets should come to the disciples , and john saw they were come , 1 john 2. and they went forth from them into the world ; and as in the revelations the whole world went after them , and they inwardly ravened from the spirit ; and so keeps people from the spirit and light within them , as thou dost ; and these have the scriptures , ( the sheeps cloathing ) and if it were possible would deceive the very elect ; but , john who saw they was come , said , the saints had the anointing within them to teach them , and they needed not any man to teach them , but as the anointing teacheth them ; and the apostles brought them to the light within them , and the law within them ; and christ bid them not to follow the false prophets , but he would dwell in them , and his spirit should lead them into all truth , joh. 14. and 2 cor. 4. heb. 8. 1. and whereas thou saist , we have cryed against the priests and teachers , as hirelings , and deceivers , coveteus , scandalous , &c. and their hearers as ignorant , superstitious , formal ; and that every charge hath much of truth in it . ans . here thou art made to confess something to the truth , as the devil did to the son of god , and hath judged thy self too ; for thou was one that we cryed against at manchester , and our testimony stands against thee as it did , who professes what thou art not ; dost thou not remember elizabeth hulme , john abraham , james harrison , and what a rage and madness thou was in when they came to thee to declare the things of god , and how thou lift up thy fist of wickedness against john abraham , and could not hold thy violent hands , and the guilt in you all have answered our testimony , and thou yet was never able to stand to truths face , nor answer the truth , if thou had , thou would have answered the queries e're now : and we are not of them which cries , loe here is christ , or loe there is christ , but as the apostle saith , col. 1. 27 , 28. christ in you the hope of glory , whom we preach , warning every man , and teaching every man , that we might present every man perfect in christ jesus ; and christ was not like to be found amongst you when you denyed the light , and they that were innocent that had received the light , quickly saw you ; and this light hath , and will stop all your mouthes that denies it ; and the light is not a shew but the substance ; and thou would seem to hide thy self , from the carnal , proud professors , as if thou wert not of them ; but they that knows thee , knows what thou hast been , and what thou art yet , and all thy congregations which thou hast gathered , where hast thou left them now ? so that which thou ( who denies the light ) hath been doing , is but to beat the air. and all that were sober and feared god , seeing you persecuting us , and reviling against the light , and against the spirit ; and what unchristian actions they used against us , was a cause through quiring into truth , to cause them to forsake you , who denyed the light of jesus , who broke into confusion amongst your selves , and biting at truth , and biting at one another , till you were consumed one of another ; and so the good meaning people that did not make godliness a game , as you did , imbraced the light of jesus , and came into the fellowship of the light and the gospel which is the power of god , rom. 1. and whereas thou saist , the well meaning people easily fell into their net , to do homage to their new god , in the mean while the ignorant rash priests and people who dealt with them , lost themselves , and injured the truth , and gave this people ground to glory over them . ans . if the well meaning people fell to us , then the ill meaning people staid with you , and this manifests you are fallen from truth , when the well meaning forsook you : and whereas thou saist , they did homage to their new god , nay , it s that god and christ which 〈◊〉 ever was , and will be , whom you for sook and denyed ( as thou denies still ) and mocked with your words like them that opposed the apostles , and called it a new doctrine , a setter forth of strange gods , acts ; and so you did injure the truth , as thou dost now , and it is christs net which they were catched in , which kept the good , and threw out the bad , according to thy own words ; and as you have injured the truth , so hath god brought his judgments upon you ; and thou hath given us as much cause to glory over thee as ever any did ; but our glorying was , and is in the lord god , and his son jesus christ , who hath dearly bought us with his blood ; and thou that denies the light , crucifies christ afresh , and puts him to open shame . and whereas thou saist , the right course to deal with us , is to distinguish between good and evil . ans . this thou hast not done , as is manifest in thy book , but like one of the false prophets , who follows thy own spirit , and sees nothing , but puts darkness for light , and light for darkness ; and thou hast manifested thy unrighteous dealing to us , in all thy book , and thou dost not own the good , nor imbrace it , nor cherish it ; how canst thou when thou denies the light of christ ? for , that which doth make manifest and reproves is light , and all things is manifest by the light , and this light thou hatest , and chofest the darkness , ephesians 5. and loves it more then the light , john 3. and whereas thou saist , thou will joyne issue with us to bear witness against hireling priests , against tythes , against superstitious carnal worship , against swearing , against corrupt worldly customes , herein joyne with them , are they at least in shew for the power of godliness as well as the forme , for worshipping in spirit and truth , for justice , for righteousness , sobriety , mercy , gravity , and whatsoever is excellent in life and conversation , so am i ; yea , whatsoever they can make appear to be evil ; that i would east off with as much indignation as they ; and what further good they can shew , that i have not learned , that would i gladly imbrace . ans . when did john wiggan bear testimony against hireling priests , and tyth-takers , should not john wiggan had tythes at manchester to make up his wages , and was not he a priest at his chappels ; where he put off his dark ware , denying the light of christ ; and now when john hath lost his chappels , he will cry against them , and their formality , now when he cannot get them ; oh , subtilty , but would he cry against them if he had 100. or 200 l. a year given him , nay , would he not bless them for it ; and how can thou worship god in spirit & truth , who denies christ the light & spirit of god to be in every man ; thou art a false worshipper , & thy worship is false ; & the lord moved us to cry against thee ; and that in thy high dayes , and must thou talk of crying against corrupt customs , and be in them thy self ; for thy evil words hath corrupted thy manners , and thou art not for the power of godliness ; and thou art far from the modesty , gravity , or justice , or righteousness , thy language bewrayes thee , as thy lyes and slanders , with mocking , scoffing , reproachful words ; and thy sawey language to friends , and especially to margaret fells ; which shames both learning and breeding ; and that most excellent thing in life and conversation thou hast denyed , which is the light of christ jesus , and if thou would cast off thy evil , cast off thy lying , slanders , reproaches , mockings , scoffings , and if ever thou wilt learn or imbrace good , thou must imbrace the light of christ jesus , which hitherto thou hast reproached ; and wilt thou learn of us , which thou callest antichrist , thou manifests thy self , this is but one of thy flattering scorns . and whereas thou saist , through the riches of grace having cast out those beams which dims the eyes of many , i can better discern the meates that lyes deep in the bottom of their eye . answ . thou denying the light of christ jesus , and not owning the grace which brings salvation , which hath appeared to all men , as in titus : thou art far off the riches of the grace , who calls christ the light , an idol , and instead of casting out beams and moats , thou art fighting against christ the light , truth , and covenant , and salvation to the ends of the earth . and whereas thou saist , being of equal ground with them , can tell them that all their sair pretences , and high expressions , are found to be a covering too short to hide their nakedness and deceit . ans . it is truth we hold forth , and fair pretences is thy own condition , in words , but out of life ; and so thy nakedness is seen to all that fear god , and thy deceitful covering which is now taken off , and thou art manifest , and thou art not upon equal ground with us , who denies christ to be the light. and whereas thou saist , while they call others deceivers , they themselves are the more subtle deceivers . ans . in this thou hast declared thy own condition , for we are saved by christ , and hold him forth , and declare what we have heard and seen , iohn 1. 3. and declares aginst all such deceivers as thou art , who is an enemy to man's salvation , christ jesus the light , john 8. and whereas thou saist , while they call others babylons merchants , and charge them for selling christs , the prophets , and apostles words , they themselves do the some , and that none sells more babylonish then they , nor at higher rates then they , as might be instanced in several persons , that i forbear to mention . ans . we are come cut of babylon where thou art , and all your confusions , and have recived the lord jesus christ , whom we declare freely , as we have received , without money , or price ; and we do abhor thy lyes and slanders , as to declare babylons merchants , and such as makes a trade upon christs , the prophets & apostles words , & then to do the same things our selves , which no honest man can charge us justly with such things , but such as thee , who sells thy self to work wickedness ; and the lord will rebuke thy spirit , for charging that upon his innocent lambs which they are not guilty of ; and we do charge thee to mention those particulars , and their names that hath sold such ware at so great a rate , and what was the rate , and who and what are their names that bought it ? and whereas thou saist , while thou endeavours to discover their deceits , thou intends not to hurt any thing that 's good in them . ans . it is the good in us that thou strikes at , and in that thou hast discovered thy own deceit , as may be seen all along in thy book , together with thy contradictions . and thou saist , hosea 14. 9. who so is wise , and he shall understand these things prudent , and he shall know them , for the wayes of the lord are right , and the just shall walk in them . but john wiggan hath fully discovered his foolishness , and that he walks not in the way of the lord , which is light ; for christ saith , i am the light , i am the way , the truth , and the life ? and this light he hath denyed . a postscript . how hath thou lived in sloath and idleness , that thou hast not convinced those that turned from thee , which was thy heareis all these many years , that thou begins but now , alack for thee , they are on a foundation above thee , and so thy sandy foundation , and darkness , and enmity , and making gaine of the apostles and christs words has been thy own condition ; and keeping people alwayes in teaching , that they may alwayes be paying thee ; and now , that thy goin as gone , thou grumbles and mutters against those that be innocent , and judgeth them in the practice of thy self , and so measureth them with by own earthly spirit , and judgeth them with earthly judgment , which cometh not near them . something in ansvver to john wigans appendix , wherein he compares the evil language of the quakers , with the false prophets . answ . to tell a man he is a lyar , if he find him so , is not a mark of a false prophet , for jeremiah did so , jer. 23. and the apostle was no false prophet when he told them they spake lyes in hypocrisie , 1 tim. 4. and jeremiah was no false prophet when he said , they bent their tongues like a how , to speak lyes , jer. 9. nor david was no false prophet when he said , they turned aside after lyes , psal 40. and the apostle was no false prophet when he said , satan had filled their hearts , act. 5. as he hath done thine , else would thou not have uttered so many lyes against us ; but we are not afraid of thy reproaches , psal . 51. 2. neither do we matter thy mocks , for fools make a mock at sin , prov. 14. 16. and knowing that mockers was to come in the last times , jade 18. though we have undergone the trial of cruel mockings , but god will not be mocked with thy religion and vain words , gal. 6. for what thou sowest thou must reap , and our words that are spoken to you are truth ; who makes no distinction when the truth speaks to the wickedness , and unrighteous state of man , which the wicked may get the words , as thou dost , and throw upon the righteous . and whereas thou compares us to the false prophets , and the unclean spirits in the revelations , which came cut of the mouth of the dragon , and were proud boasters , false accusers , and incontinent , fierce , despisers of those that are good . answ . john , this is thy own condition , thou hast directly read it ; yet before thou said , thou would learn of us , and thou said they were the better meaning people that came to us , thus thou foamest out thy own shame like unto the raging waves of the sea. and whereas thou saist , we boast of persection and sinless life , and are the servants of corruption . answ . this is false , the lord rebuke thy spirit , for our perfection is in christ , the crown of our rejoycing , who thou saist is an idol ; and christ we serve , and not corruption : and see if any of our friends have spoken such words to thee as thou hast spoken against the truth , and thou denying the spirit and light in men , by which they should see their salvation , thou can be no otherwise but as a wave of the sea , as a well without water , and a cloud without rain ; as in jude : manifest to be in the false prophets steps , 2 tim. 3. tit. 1. 10. 2 pet. 2. art thou not here in these steps ? evil beasts , slow bellies , &c. all that read the scriptures may see thee . and whereas thou saist , thou hast had converse with several christians in several nations this thirty years . answ . this thou may speak to thy shame , who knows no more of god and christ , then now to call him an idol ; and where did any of all these christians teach thee that christ was an idol ? i do not believe that any sect in all christendome would say so , but thy self ; no not the papists whom thou likens us to , and saith we are as bad : and so thou art like unto them in the revelations , who blasphemeth god and his tabernacle , and them that dwell in heaven . and that which thou did affirm in thy assertion , was contrary to god , christ , scripture and truth , and all people might see them , if there were no answer to them , if they could but read scriptures . and whereas thou saist , it behoved some of them , at least g. f. who was called , as margaret fell affirmeth &c. answ . margaret fell said g. f. was called from his lawful calling , as thou reports ; thou thy self didst report it : that was the occasion of her words , which if it was so , if his calling had been meaner , it was better then butchering people as thou hast done , with the sword ; any of these trades had been better then thine , for thou hast been both a priest , and a butchering major ; so thou might have two trades , and has lost them both , which makes thee ●ail so . alss , for answering thy book it did not so much concern g. f. but many particulars which were some of them 60 miles one off another ; and thy book which we had with much adoe from you , which ye were afraid should have come to the light , it was such a work of darknesse ; and it was but a few dayes time in our hands , which they were not likely to answer it in so short a time , besides called on often to be taken from us , it was an uncertain thing for us to come to answer it , or go about that work , but at last we were fain to take it in pieces , and get it copyed over in pieces , there was such haste with you , and this shews you were afraid to have it answered ; whereof john wigans wife , and some of his mis-led people , made a boast as though we could not answer it , before we could have it , which he hath small reason for , as they that reads it in mecknesse sees his folly , 2 tim. 2. and that which we writ was true to thy condition , thou hast proved it . and whereas thou art grieved because the goalers and prisoners should see thy fruits laid open , because we sent letters to them to give unto thee , when thou thy self would not take them of us ; and we did not send for our letters again , as thou didst thy book , or some through thy means ; not being afraid who see them or read them . and herein thou condemns thy self , for thou directed thy book to the goaler , and sent it into the towne before it came to us ; so in this thou hast judged thy self , for thou didst not so much as direct that a copy of it should be given to us , and so thou renders thy self both obnoxious and odious in thy book and practice . and what thou hast been is known , and there is things yet to be manifest , which is a shame to mention : and so thou hast thy self begotten in many men a true opinion , that thou art a hainous offender , in speaking such words , and writing such things against christ the light. and we know none that hath sent thee any letters sealed , but there hath been a name subscribed to them . and as for scorning , jearing , and frothy expressions , that 's thy own condition john , and not ours ; and why didst thou not put those letters ( sent without names ) into thy book , that the wise reader might have seen them ( if there were such ) and have judged of them . and as for me thomas curwen , who sent several papers to thee , being burthened with thy wickednesse , who had published thy lies abroad in the name of the lord , and wast ashamed and afraid that we should have them , though thou promised often we should have them in words , and now that we have it , it must but be a fortnight , being a short time for them who are above 60. miles from one another : and thou hast done unjustly in that thou hast not put down my whole letters , and the occasion of them , for there is no wise man will judge but that there was some reason why i should send such words to thee : and did not froth , and rage , and fury appear in thee , when thou laid violent hands on me , and pull'd my coat like to tare it off my back ? and canst thou lift such unholy hands and fists of wickednesse unto the lord in prayer ? and will god accept thy sacrifice which is like cains ? and when i did peruse thy book , i found it did not prove thy assertion , viz. that christ the light is not saving : it therefore is but as chaff and dirt ; and thou perverts , and wrests , & adds to many scriptures , seemingly to prove thy assertion good , which thou couldst not , for which , i say , the plagues of god shall be added unto thee , according to the scriptures , rev. 22. to which john wigan , in his wonted fury and rage said , the plagues of god was upon me , and we all spake from the spirit of the devil . yet this man before his companions would seem to be humble , and a meek man , through his feigned words would seem to justifie himself . and for thy sawcy language , and ill-bred behaviour , and unmannerlinesse , if thou had put all my letter down , the reader might have seen why i charge those things upon thee . and therefore i had good ground to speak these words through all thy words and carriages towards me , and also thy abusive and slanderous , and sawcy expressions to my esteemed friend in the truth , m. f. which if thou hadst had either civility , or the reason of a man , or any regard to virtue , thou would have been ashamed to utter or have written such things as thou didst ; but thou hast abused her letters as thou hast done mine , and taken that which thou thinks may be for thy advantage , and wrests our words as thou hast done the scriptures , and left out that in our letters which was the cause we spoke those things unto thee , and plainly shew the cause , which if any desire to know the cause , we have them to shew , for if we should put them in our book they would make it too great a volume , too great , together with thy slanderous letters , and that thou should vomit so many slanders in thy book , which thou would not let us have but only a few dayes , and then thou glories and boasts , in which time thou knew we could not answer them , the particulars concerned in it being so far distant one from another . and john , if thomas curwen husbandman , which is a better calling then thy trade , who hath often been moved of the lord to write to thee , is able to indict letters , having been often burthened with thy hypocrisie and vain deceit , and fleshly performances , which thou hast charged falsely upon me in a letter . and here thou publishes that which thou knows not , slandering us both with that which thou art ignorant of , not knowing but another might do it , and so hast published thy ignorance . dost thou think this will stand amongst wise men ? and thou hast said thou will never learn in my masters school , which is christ the light , nor come to the law which is the schoolmaster until christ , which thou art ignorant of both . and within all this time thou might have answered my queries , if thou had been in the meeknesse , but it is manifest thou art choaked with evil , and envy , and possest with a bitter spirit , that thou hast not power to do good . and as for thy dreaming , it is manifest if thou hadst been awaked , thou would have answered my . queries , and cleared thy assertion , and convict me if i had opposed my self ; but thou hast denyed this office and work , and in stead of giving satisfaction herein , thou hast published thy own shame . i would not have thee to envy me so much , for the good i have to thee , for which of those things dost thou thus deal with me ? is it not because i have told thee the truth ? for which of those good deeds dost thou rail of me so fast ? was it not a good deed , to tell thee thou was a deceiver , knowirg thee to be so ? for now thy fruits makes thee manifest to be a deceiver , and whom thou hast deceived , 2 pet. 2. mat. 7. 24. and whereas thou hast picked a few lines out of james parkes private letter sent unto thee , whom thou seems to pretend love to , and now publishes them , and this was thy love ; was it not time for me to forsake thee , being long deceived by thee , and has known thy principles and thee long , and thy feigned love : but should thou not have put all my letter down , that the reader might have seen it , and judged with thy words , which was the occasion of it : and the words which thou slanderously spoke in secret , but thou wilt manifest thy self , that thy solly may appear , which cannot abide plainnesse ; but my letter is true to thy condition , and thou wilt find it so . and i tell thee it was a fraudulous part of thee to publish a part of my letter , and not all , or other friends letters either , and far off the truth , and below a wise man , but it is well that thou hast published so much as thou hast done , that people may read thy book , and see the words come true upon thee . john wigan , this in answer to part of thy appendix . wherein thou mentions margaret fells letters , and has therein falsifyed my words , as it is the usual manner of thee and such deceivers as thou art , for you do so with the scriptures , who makes a trade of them , and teaches for filthy iucre , you take here a piece , and there a piece , such as will make for your own ends , and for your advantage , and for the setting up of your image you make , and so leaves poor people dark and ignorant of the scriptures , and also of your deceitful dealings with them , and so keeps them in darkness , and preaches unto them , that they must carry a body of fin with them as long as they are upon the earth ; and they are no other like , so long as they that are blind follows thee , and such like that are blind , and so you all go into the ditch together , which is your place , and shuts the kingdom of heaven against men , and neither enters in your selves , nor suffer them that would go in to enter , mat. 23. 13. but thou hast intended in taking pieces of my letters here and there to make them seem more odious to the reader , and also thou has intended thereby to cover thy own nakednesse and ignorance of god and his truth , in leaving out the cause and ground of my speaking those words , which is nothing but truth to thee according to the scriptures , where they stand written to thee , though thou endeavours by thy overskipping , and taking words here and there to make them non-sense to the reader ; yet as they stand , and as thou hast set them , any rational man of truth and honesty , that knows what thou hast written and spoken to me and others , will judge them to be truth to thee ; therefore for the further manifestation of thy wickednesse , i shall by plain scripture convince the reader that reads with an impartial eye , and prove thee a blasphemer against god and his truth , as it is in jesus , and when i have done so , then let the reader judge whether thou be not guilty in truth and reality , and of all i have writ to thee . the cause of my first writing to thee was from thy blasphemous book , which thou put out against christ jesus the light , our corner stone , which thou boastingly saies thou strikes at , and i can truly say , and the lord that judges all hearts knows , that i had no delight to meddle with thee , seeing thee a conceited man , only in deceit and ignorance , but i was moved of the lord in the vindication of his truth , to bear my testimony for his truth , and to write to thee , and to leave thee without excuse . ( 1. ) in thy book thou saith , whoever calls and worships this ( the light in every man ) as the redeemer worships an imaginary and fictious christ , and indeed an idol , and in another place of thy book thou saies , that the light in every man that comes into the world , set up and worshipped in prayers and praises . all the honour and attributes due to the true redeemer alone being ascribed to it , which is an idolatry so much worse then that of jeroboams , or of the papists . in a third place of thy book thou saiest , admit this grand lie for the corner stone , and the whole super structure will consist of lies . these with many other such blasphemous speeches thou hast uttered forth in thy book , which i shall forbear to trouble the reader with , they being answered before . again in thy second letter to me thou hast sent writ these words ; its likely thou hast never been so plainly told that thou sets up an idol , if thou call the light that is in every man that comes into the world , christ the redeemer , and if thou worships that light as the redeemer , that thou art an idolater : it seems by these words , that thou hast writ these words in thy former letter , which i sent back with the answer , and so hath not the words there written here to produce , but here is enough and sufficient to manifest thee an absolute blasphemer against christ and the holy ghost . answ . the light of christ jesus which we bear witnesse of , which hath lighted every man that 's come into the world , is the same light which john bore witnesse of which was a man sent of god for that purpose , before christ jesus came to prepare the way before him as the scripture doth testifie , which prophesied of him before he came , and which prophecies he bore witnesse to when he came , as isa . 40. 3 , 4 , 5. the voice of him that cryeth in the wildernesse prepare ye the way of the lord , make straight in the desert the high way of our god. read on to the fifth verse , and malachy the 3. and 1. behold i send my messenger , and he shall prepare the way before me , and the lord whom ye seek shal suddenly come to his temple , and according to these prophecies the angel gabriel came to zacharias , and told him that he should have a son , and luke 1. 19. and the angel answering said , i am gabriel that stand in the presence of god , and am sent to speak unto thee , and to shew thee these glad tydings , and in the sixth month after the angel gabriel was sent from god unto a virgin , espoused to a man , named joseph , which testified of the birth of christ , as you may read in the of luke at large , and the angel said unto zacharias when he told them of the birth of john , he said , fear not zacharias , for thy prayer is heard , for thy wife elizabeth shall bear a son , and thou shalt call his name john , and thou shalt have joy and gladnesse in him , and many shall rejoyce at his birth , and he shall be great in the sight of the lord , and he shall be filled with the holy ghost ( even this is he that bore witnesse of the light which iohn wigan calls an idol ) from his mothers womb , and after this child was born , his fathers mouth was opened in praises unto the lord , being dumb since the angel spoke to him , because he did not fully believe , and his father zacharias was filled with the holy ghost , and prophesied of christ saying , blessed be the lord god of israel , who hath visited and redeemed his people , and so to the end of the chapter , as you may read , ver . 76. and the child shall be called the prophet of the highest [ to wit christ ] and thou shalt go before the face of the lord to prepare his waies to give knowledg of salvation unto his people , by the remission of their sins ; and christ himself bore witnesse of john , mat. 11. and said , he was more than a prophet , and said , of all that were born of women , there was not a greater then john , and said he was a burning and shining light , as you may read . for this is he of whom it is written , behold i send my messenger before thy face , which shall prepare thy way before thee , ver . 10. and if ye will receive it , this is the elias which was for to come ; for all the prophets and the law prophecyed until john , he that hath an ear to hear let him hear , ver . 13 , 14 , 15. and the apostle bore witnesse of iohn , and said , as john fulfilled his course acts 13. he said , whom think ye that i am , i am not he , but there cometh one after me , the shoes of whose feet i am not worthy to loose . thus far we have proved unto you what iohn was , that he was sent of god to bear witnesse of christ by these scriptures , with many more which might be instanced concerning john. now we shall go to johns testimony , and witnesse which he bore of christ jesus , john 1. in the beginning was the word , and the word was with god , and the word was god , the same was in the beginning with god ; all things were made by him , and without him was not any thing made that was made , in him was life , and this life was the light of men . this is he which john bore witnesse of , this same john came for a witnesse to bear witnesse of this light , that all men through him might believe , as you may see proved by all the foregoing prophecies of him ; he said , he was not the light , but was sent to bear witnesse of the light that was the true light , which lighteth every man that cometh into the world . this is the light and no other which we witnesse , and bear testimony of , which john wigan saith is an idol ; he was in the world , and the world was made by him , and the world knew him not , but as many as received him , to them he gave power to become the sons of god , even to them that believed on his name , not to such unbelievers as john wigan , who denies him , which was born not of blood , nor of the will of the flesh , nor of the will of man , but of god ; this john wigan calls an idol . and the word was made flesh , and dwelt among us and we beheld his glory , as of the only begotten son of god , full of grace and truth ; john bore witnesse of him , and cryed , saying , this is he of whom i spoke , he that cometh after me , who is preferred before me , ver . 15. now here the reader may see w's . blasphemies , and lyes in his book where he saith , that the light that john bare witnesse of , that lighteth every man that comes into the world , is the word creator , and not the word made flesh , christ ; so let the reader read john. 1. 14 , 15. and this is the record of john , when the jews sent priests and levites from jerusalem , and asked him , who art thou ? and he confessed and denied not , i am not the christ , and they asked him , and said unto him , who art thou ? and he said , i am the v●ice of one crying in the wilderness , make straight the way of the lord , as said the prophet isaiah , 1 john. ver . 23. they asked him , why baptizest thou then ? and john answered , saying , i baptize with water , but there standeth one among you , whom ye know not , he it is , who coming after me , is preferred before me , &c. jo. 1. ver . 26. 27. here john beares witness of him , according to the prophesies ; the next day john seeth jesus coming unto him , and said , behold the lambe of god which taketh away the sin of the world . this is he of whom i said , after me cometh a man which is preferred before me , for he was before me , ver . 29. 30. this is he whom we worship as our redeemer , whom j. w. saith , to worship is to set up a greater idolatry then that of jeroboams , and of the papists , and john saith further , that he should be made manifest to israel , therefore am i come baptizing with water , and john bore record , saying , i saw the spirit descending from heaven like a dove , and it abode upon him , and i knew him not , but he that sent me to baptize with water , the same said unto me , upon whom thou shalt see the spirit descending and remaining on him , the same is he that baptizeth with the holy ghost . and i saw and bare record that this is the son of god ; and this is he whom j. w. saith , whoso worships , worships an idol . and the next day john saw jesus walking , and looking upon him said behold the lamb of god ; and so this is a part of johns record and witnesse which he hath borne of the son of god , the light of the world that hath lighted every man that cometh into the world ; with severall more , as the scripture will testifie , who baptizeth with the holy ghost ; and this is he which j. w. desires the people with whom he has to do , and all others with fear and trembling to consider how injurious this opinion is , and how pernicious and destructive such a sandy foundation will prove to pretious soules ; for admit this grand lye for the corner stone , and the whole superstructure will consist of lyes , saith he , and open this as the first door of entrance ( as they do ) and it leads into a babel of confusion and errors ; no sooner is a man entred in at this deadly gate , but he is in the city tohu , where first , if his eyes be anointed with eye salve by the true jesus , he may behold this image of iealousie ( the light that is in every man that comes into the world. ) answ . here i desire the reader but soberly , and seriously to consider of this mans doctrine , and compare it with the foregoing proofes , with what shall be hereafter , and let him judg whether it be not as absolute blasphemie as a man can speak , and that according to the full proofe of the scriptures , for christ jesus . jo. 8. 12. where jesus saith , i am the light of the world , he that followeth me shall not abide in darknesse , but have the light of life . and again , in jo. 12. jesus cryed , and saith , he that believeth on me , believes not on me , but on him that sent me , & he that seeth me , seeth him that sent me . 45. i am come a light into the world , that whosoever ●eleeveth in me shall not abide in darkness , 46. and in the 36. while ye have light , believe in the light , that ye may be children of the light . these words spake jesus , who baptizeth with the holy ghost , which j. w , saith , if this lye for the corner stone , all the superstructure will consist of lyes . if any man walk in the day , he stumbleth not because he seeth the light of the world jo. 11. 9. now i desire the reader will seriously consider , whether j. w. be not highly guilty of blasphemy , and one with those pharisees who was grieved when christ wrought miracles , and cast out devils , and turned and converted many unto god , when he entred into the strong mans house , and bound the strong man , and spoiled his goods , ver . 29. so j. w. is grieved that there should be so many turned unto god , and afraid for the time to come , lost there should be more , and therefore he strikes at christ jesus , the light and corner stone , which he calls a lie , as those pharisees did against christ formerly ; but christs answer is , if i cast out devils by the power of god , then the kingdome of god is come unto you ; else how can one enter , & c ? which j. w. denies , that the kingdome of god should be come unto the pharisees , or unto the world , ver . 28 , 29. blasphemously against christs own words . but christ saith , all manner of blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men , but the blusphemy against the holy ghost shall never be forgiven ; which j. w. is guilty of , in his wicked blasphemous words and writings , it is past my knowledge how often . and therefore christs words are fully manifested upon him , who saith in the 32. verse . whosoever speaketh a word against the son of man , it shall be forgiven him , but whosoever speaketh against the holy ghost , it shall never be forgiven him , neither in this world , nor in the world to come , mark 3. 28 , 29. luke 12. 10. this stands good upon j. w. for ever , if christ be god who baptized with the holy ghost , j. w. is a blasphemer against him . and so i desire the reader to consider without prejudice of what is proved , and furthermore whether he be not one with those jews that were filled with envy when they saw the multitudes , and spake against those things that were spoken by paul , contradicting and blaspheming , acts. 13. 45. and also one with elimas the sorcerer who withstood paul , and went about to turn the deputie from the faith . ver . 8. and also one and the same with those jews whom paul was pressed in spirit to testify unto , that jesus was the christ , and when they opposed themselves and blasphemed , he shook his garment and said unto them , your blood be upon your own heads i am clean , &c. acts. 18. 5 , 6. and also whether he be not one of those which the apostle speaks of , in rom. 2. 21. thou that teachest another , teachest thou not thy self ? thou that preachest a man should not steal , dost thou steal ? and thou that abhorrest idols , dost thou commit sacriledge ? for thou hast blasphemed against the worthy name of god , the light. rom. 2. 2. jam. 1. 7. and so now thou art proved such a blasphemer that i am forced to compare thee to the beast spoken of in the revelations : i am sure thou art one that worships him , and gives thy power to him , for thou hast spoken great things and blasphemies against the lord and his anoynted , the light christ jesus . rev. 13. 6. and hast opened thy mouth against god , to blaspheme his name , and his tabernacle , and them that dwell in heaven . and so now thou art perfectly proved a blasphemer against god , and now thou mayst see if thou can clear thy selfe of these things , or any that takes thy part against christ the light , who inlightens every man that comes into the world , which john bore witnesse of , and thou hast given thy power to the beast to make warre with the saints . so now i am to prove thee to be a minister of darknesse , who hath affirmed , that the light in every man is not a saving light , which i have proved already is christ jesus , which john bore testimony to the true light that enlightens every man that comes into the world , and which is the saviour of all mankind , tit. 3. 4. 2. thou hast asserted , that god has not given a measure of the spirit to every man , contrary to the apostle , in 1 cor. 12. 4 , 7. who saith , the manifestation of the spirit is given to every man to profit withal . and thou goest about to make the light of christ jesus , with which he has enlightened every man , a created light , and a dim light , and a natural light ; and spirit of a natural man. and here i shall prove thee an idolater , and a graver up of an image in thy dark divining , where thou art one with all the ministers of antichrist , who studies an image in your brains , and the dark imaginations of your hearts ; for though thou seems to be a separated priest , yet it is but in the sensual , and carnal , and devilish , not in the spirit of god , for thou crucifies that in thy dark deceitful heart , while thou art making and setting up another spirit and light which thou calls natural , and not the light of christ . and here thou art worse then surplice-men , or homily-men , for they will confess that the light in them which shews them sin , is the light of christ ; and yet thou seems to confess that the light in every man is the law written in the heart , and if so , the new covenant . answ . all this heap of confusion which thou hast heaped together , doth but manifest thy darkness , and thou ministers out of it , and art an enemy to the light of christ , and so thou must needs be a minister of darkness . though thou hast been a minister long , i ask thee this question , didst thou ever preach the light of christ to people , or didst thou ever turn peoples minds to the light of christ in their consciences , or didst thou ever turn any from the power of satan to the power of god ? if thou hast , set us out some of thy flock that they may be tryed ? but there are a great deal that will cestifie against thee , that has been of thy flock , that is turned from thy darkness , to the light of christ , which thou art an enemy to , and with it they see thy deceit and darkness , wherein thou didst deceive them , and can praise the lord for ever , that they are turned from thy darknesse . but now for the proof of thy false doctrine . and 1. is not the light which is in every man , the light of christ that convinceth a man or woman of sin and evil ? and is there another saviour besides christ that takes away the sin of the world ? and what was that image of god in which adam was created ? wilt thou not have christ to be god ? and thou sayes , there remained a part in adam after he had transgressed , which made him hide himself , but thou calls this the spirit of a natural man , and a created light . is the light that is in man a created light ? and is the law which is written in mans heart , and the spirit which is put in the inward parts , created ? and was that image of god which was in adam a created image ? how was the lamb slain from the foundation of the world , revel . 13. 8. rev. 5. 12. but in plain words , did god create any light in the beginning but what he set in the firmament of heaven ? is an invisible light created , which sees god which is invisible ? it s pitty to put these things to thy gross darkness ; but that for the seed's sake it may be serviceable to others . and dost thou say , the law of god that he writes in the heart , and his spirit which he puts in the inward parts , is this a created light ? oh the gross darknesse that is in thee ! how dare thou take upon thee to teach ? is not god light ? and is the image of god in man a created light ? and is that created and natural ? and is not christ light , and his spirit light , and is not the law light , and is not the law spiritual ? and did not moses say to the children of israel , deut. 30. 11 , 12 , 13 , 14 , & 15. for this commandement that i command thee this day , is not hidden from thee , neither is it far off , &c. but the word is very nigh thee , in thy mouth and heart , to hear it , and to do it : see , i have set before thee life and death ? was this , that would have led them into life , natural and created ? and is not this law righteous , and spiritual , and just , and good ? as the apostle witnessed of it , act. 7. 5. 3. rom. 7. 12. who said , they received the law by the disposition of angels , &c. and did not christ jesus say , he came not to destroy the law , but to fulfil it ; and that one jot or title of the law should not passe till it was all fulfilled ? and is not christ the end of the law for righteousnesse ? and is this the spirit of a natural man that knows not the things of god , that christ is the end of ? art thou not in this a minister of darknesse , and an idolater ? and doth not the apostle say , rom. 7. 4. that they were become dead to the law by the body of christ : wherefore he saith , the law is holy , and the commandment holy , just , and good , ver . 12. but this dark doctrine of thine , makes thee clearly manifest that thou art in the flesh , and the motions of sin works in thy members , which brings forth fruit unto death , and never knew the life of the law yet , nor the life of the commandment , but art alive without the law , and so art alive unto sin and wickednesse , and knows it not , not having the law to be thy schoolmaster , to correct thee for thy wickednesse , which would revive and set thy sins before thee , that thereby thou wicked might die . but thou has not been at this school yet , for all thy learning and divining it has been all in the darknesse , thou has never come to the law yet which is light , which is the schoolmaster unto christ . this thou sits judge upon , and sayes its spirit of a natural man , and so living without the law , is dead in thy sins and darknesse , and so never knew what it is with thy mind to serve the law of god , as the apostle did , he delighted in the law of god according to the inward man ; but this is too mean for thee , this thou calls created and natural , and so lies drowned in darknesse , and sin and wickednesse , thy mind and all thy members committing sin , and drinks up iniquity as the ox drinks up water . how should thou do other , being thou art an enemy both of christ , and his law , and his light , and his spirit ? and what ? art thou not a minister of darknesse in all this ? and the apostle who was obedient unto the law of god in his heart , and the spirit of god in his inward parts , by this he saw the body of death , which made him to cry out , &c. but he also saw his redeemer christ jesus , for he was a minister of the light , and turned people from the darknesse to the light in them , and so could confesse then , the law of the spirit of life in christ jesus had made him free from the law of sin and death . so the apostle doth not make such a separation bet wixt the law and christ as thou dost , who saist , it is natural and created ; but this is but the judgment of thy dark spirit , for the apostle saith , that god sent his only begotten son in the likenesse of sinful flesh , and for sin condemned sin in the flesh , that the righteousnesse of the law might be fulfilled in us , who walk not after the flesh but after the spirit , rom. 7. 8. god sent forth his son , made of a woman , made under the law , gal. 4. 4. i desire the reader to take notice of this mans darknesse and ignorance of this light , and law , and spirit of god , and also of his idolatry , who has made and framed another image which he calls a created light , and a natural light , and a dim light , and the spirit of a natural man. and whether this law and spirit of god , which was given unto the children of israel into their hearts be natural , and also hath been the guide and teacher of his people in all ages ; for christ himself saith unto the jews , it is written in the law , you shall all be taught of god , and the prophet isa . said , that all the children of the lord should be taught of the lord. and how should they be taught , and be established in righteousness , but by the light of righteousness , the righteous law of god written in their hearts ? and this is none of j. w's . molten image which he has set up , which he calls created , and naturall , and dim light , and spirit of a naturall man &c. and so here the reader may read by what is here proved by plaine scripture . j. w. first to be a minister of darkness by his denying the light of christ to be the law of god , the pure new covenant which he hath lighted every man with , and his law which is written in every heart since the new covenant ; and also he may read him an idolater in that he has made a molten and graven image , which he calls created and natural , and the spirit of a man , which is neither light of christ , nor law of god , nor new covenant ; and now i. w. thou hast raced thy self out , both from the knowledge of the law , and the law-giver : so thou art proved , by the plain scriptures of truth , ( 1 ) a blasphemer . ( 2 ) a minister of darkness . ( 3 ) an idolater . ( 4 ) i am now to prove thee an antichrist , which was to come in the last time , which denyes christ come in the flesh . and that is to say , ( 1 ) thou goes about to prove , and has laid it down in thy book , as though christ which lighteth every man that comes into the world , were not god and the new covenant , or covenant of god which was before the foundation of the world. ( 2 ) thou laies down , that christ is not that word and light which john beares witnesse of , but saith , it is the word creator . and , ( 3 ) thou makes a difference between the father and the son , and so sets up two lights , and two words , and so two gods , except thou denyes christ to be god. answ . and first in answer to that thou dost oppose , which is , that christ the light is not gods covenant , was not the covenant which god made with abraham in christ jesus , did not the apostle say the same , gal. 3. 16. now to abraham and his seed was this promise made , he saith not unto seeds , as of many , but as of one , unto thy seed which is christ , and this i say , that the covenant that was confirmed before of god in christ , &c. here the aposte doth not say as thou dost , that christ is not gods covenant of light , and also the apostle saith that christ hath redeemed us from under the curse of the law , that the blessing of abraham might come on the gentiles , here christ brings the gentiles into covenant with abraham and the jews ; but this is a mystery thou never saw ; and is he not the god of abraham , the god of isaac , and the god of jacob , in his everlasting covenant christ jesus : and is not the covenant of the lord with david & his seed for ever in christ jesus ? and hath not the prophet isaiah said in the 42. and 6. i the lord have called thee in righteousness , and will hold thine hand , and will keep thee , and give thee for a covenant to the people , and for a light to the gentiles , to open blind eyes , and to bring out the prisoners out of prison , and them that sit in darkness out of the prison-house ; who is this that should do this , if it be not christ jesus , whom wilt thou have it to be ; and again , isa . 49. 8. it is a light thing that thou should be my servant to raise up the tribes of jacob , and to restore again the preserved of israel , i will also give thee for a light to the gentiles , that thou mayest be my salvation to the ends of the earth , who is this thinkest thou ? this torments thee , this that reaches unto all the ends of the earth ; light shining in all , this torments thy dark spirit , thou makes accompt in thy book this is a created light as thou saist in thy book , where thou quotes 2 rom. vers . 14 , 15 , 16. who hath the law written in their hearts , which accuses or excuses them in the day when god shall judg the secrets of men by jesus christ , according to my gospel : let the reader judge whether this be a natural created light , which judges the secrets of mens hearts by jesus christ ; is not this gods new covenant of light to the gentiles , which he has written in their hearts : and doth not the apostle say in hebr. 8. 6. speaking of the old covenant and priesthood , but now hath he obtained a more excellent ministery , and by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant , which is established upon better promises , is not this christ ? for the jews broke their covenant and their law that was written in tables of stone , which gendered to bondage , and there was then a law added because of transgression , until the seed christ came , gallat . 24. 25. yet the promise and covenant that was made to abraham in christ jesus stands still , and is the same , and cannot be disanul'd , as the apostle saith , gal. 3. 19 , 16 , 17. hebr. 8. 10. the law that was added 430. years after the promise was made , could not disanul it , for the apostle saith , if the first covenant had been faultless , then there had been no place found for the second , and so this is the covenant of god , writing his law in their hearts , and puting his spirit in their inward parts , for the jewes had outward laws written in tables of stone , which laws they broke , but now christ jesus the everlasting covenant of god , which is light made unto abraham never can be broken , but is an everlasting light in the hearts of his people , and an everlasting law written in their hearts , and an everlasting covenant of life and peace , and so brings all into unity and fellowship , for there is neither jewes nor greeke , there is neither bond nor free , there is neither male nor female , for they are all one in christ jesus , and if they be christs , then they are abrahams seed , and heires according to the promise , gal. 3. 28 , 29. and so here thou art proved thus far an antichrist , and a denyer of christ jesus ( the light ) to be gods covenant , who according to the flesh is the son of abraham , the son of david , rom. 1. 2 , 3 , 4. and according to the spirit the son of god , paul was made a minister of that gospel which was promised . but these things is a mystery to thee , and thou knows nothing of them but what thou knowes naturally as a bruit beast , for thou cannot believe the apostles testimony that he gives in the 13. of the acts , when he is speaking of saul , vers . 22. and when he had removed him , to wit saul , he raised up david to be their king , to whom he gave testimony , &c. of this mans seed hath god according to his promise raised , vers . 25 , unto israel a saviour jesus , when john had preached before his coming ; and as john fulfilled his course , he said , whom think ye that i am , &c. men and brethren of the stock of abraham , and whosoever among you that feareth god , to you is the word of this salvation sent , vers . 26. so let the reader read this portion of scripture , and see whether christ jesus be not gods covenant of light , and promise unto abraham , and unto david , and also whether this be not that which john bore testimony of , and so now thou art sufficiently proved thus far , not only a breaker of gods covenant and promise unto abraham and his seed for ever , in whom the apostle saith , all the promises of god are yea and in him amen , 1 cor. 20. the next is , wherein thou has denyed christ to be that word which john beares witness to , which was in the begining with god saying , the neglect of this distinction of the word creator , and the word made flesh , is the ground of the great mistake of many , thou saist , who not considering what is testified of the word as creator , do confound that light which is set up by him in every man , with that light which he gives , as he is the word made flesh , and so calls that light saving , which is but natural , springing up with him in his creation , yea hence they call that light christ , which is but the law written in the heart . answ . i desire the reader to read over the 1st . of john , and seriously consider what distinctions he findes made there from the word that was in the begining , and the word that 's made flesh , and the light that lightens every man that 's come into the world , and whether all these be not christ , which john beares witnesse of , and whether john and the spirit of god , there have separated them as the blacknesse and darknesse in j. w. hath done ; and let the reader judge whether this man be not possest with an inchanting spirit of sorcery , and witch-craft , and even as it were given up to work wickednesse to his own destruction , being filled with envy and malice against the truth , which has overthrown his rotten and sandy foundation , and causes him so to rage , that he even blasphemes against the god of heaven , that he even dares to separate the god-head , and would not have christ jesus to be the true light and word of god , which was in the begining , in whom the fulnesse of the god-head dwells , and that bodily , gal. 3. 9. and so as thou hast denyed christ to be the covenant of god , thou has also denyed him to be the word of god , and also has denyed him to be the light that lighteth every man that comes into the world , and so has denyed his god-head as he is a saviour , by which all the fathers were saved , and dyed in the faith of him , and the patriarchs , and the prophets that had his word in their hearts , and thou has denyed him to be the light of israel , and thou has denyed him to be the first fruits of them that sleep , and the first begotten from the dead , and the first born of every creature , thou has denyed his very life and substance , and the laying of his life down thou has denyed , for thou said , he denyed faith to some , and one of thy brethren said , that his blood was not shed for all ; and thus you spake despight against the spirit of grace , and counts the blood of the covenant an unholy thing , and so christ is of little value to you , and you are not worthy of him , but for the seeds sake , and that people may not be blinded with thy wickedness and blindness , and darkness , and that people may come to an understanding of the truth . i desire the reader seriously to consider these following proofes , that is to say , first of john , that word which was in the beginning with god , by which all things was made and created , which was before man was made or created , and was glorified with the father before the world began , whether this be not the word christ the saviour of mankind according to the apostles words in the 1. of heb. 2. ver . and so on , hath in these last dayes spoken unto us by his son , whom he hath appointed heir of all things ; by whom also he made the world , &c. and whether this son of god by which all things was made and created , is not the saviour and the word in the beginning , and the redeemer of all mankind , and whether the word which moses spoke of to the children of israel , deut. 30. 14. when he said , the word is very nigh thee , in thy heart & mouth , that thou may do it ; and said then , he had set life and death before them ; which the apostle in the 10. of hebrews bears testimony to , who saith , christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believes : and when he rehearses moses words he saith , who shall ascend into heaven , that is to bring christ down from above , or who shall descend into the deep , that is to bring christ up again from the dead : but what saith it , the word is nigh thee in thy mouth , and in thy heart ; this is the word of faith which we preach , that if thou shall confess with thy mouth the lord jesus , and believe in thy heart that god has raised him from the dead , thou shall be saved . doth not the apostle say , that this lord jesus is the word , this is the doctrine the apostle preached the same word in the heart , as moses did ; but , i. w. denies this doctrine , and this word , and this jesus , that is very nigh in the heart , that preaches righteousness , he preacheth him afar off , it vexeth him to hear of him nigh in his heart , for his heart is filled with hypocrisie and darkness , and gods word and witness lyes slain in him ; and so all his preaching is of christ without him crucified at jerusalem , but he knows him not , nor where he is , and so all his separation is but in the darkness , talking of a christ without him , and denying gods covenant of light within , isa . 49. 8. and denying christ the word in the heart , which was that which the apostle preached ; and likewise the apostle peter , acts. 10. 36. the word which god sent unto the children of israel , preaching peace by jesus christ , the word i say you know , which was published throughout all judea after the preaching of the baptisme of john , and hew god anointed jesus christ , &c. vers . 43. to him all the prophets gave witness , and while peter spoke these words , the holy ghost fell on all them that heard the word . and what word was this they heard when the holy ghost fell on them , was it not the word the apostle preached christ ? oh , thou enemy of god , how should christ be preached , if that word which the apostles preached was not christ , and were not they the ministers of the gospel and of the spirit , 2 cor. 1. 18. but as god is true our word towards you was not yea , and nay , for the son of god jesus christ who was preached amongst you by us , even by me , and silvanus and timotheus was not yea , and nay , but in him was yea . here the apostle clearly manifests that the word which they preached was the son of god christ jesus ; and was not the word of reconciliation which the apostle preached , was not this christ ; doth he not say , all things are of god , who hath reconciled us to himself by jesus christ , and hath given unto us the ministry of reconciliation , to wit , that god was in christ reconciling the world unto himself , not imputing their trespasses unto them ; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation , and we are embassadours for christ , as though god did beseech you by us , we pray you in christs stead be ye reconciled unto god , for he hath made him to be sin for us that knew no sin , that we might be made the righteousness of god in him . this message is a torment to j. w. he is none of those embassadours , he carrieth no such message as this , this is contrary to his doctrine , for he will not have god and christ to be one , nor he will not have the world reconciled , for he saith , the light that lightens them is not saving ; and how can they be reconciled unto god , if they be not saved from their sin ? he makes account that christs blood is not shed for all ; and the apostle saith , he is the propitiation for the sins of the whole world ; but j. w. saith , that this word is not christ , and the apostle did commend those that he preached to , and committed them to the word of his grace , which is able to build them up , and to give them an inheritance among all them that are sanctified . but for the readers satisfaction , we shall prove something out of the old testament ; did not abraham see christs day , and was glad , and believed , and it was counted to him for righteousness ; was not this by christ the word , which was in the beginning with god , who said , before abraham was i am ; did not moses write of him , as christ saith , and saith , a prophet shall the lord your god raise up unto you of your brethren like unto me , him shall you hear in all things . did not moses see this by the word that was in his heart , which he preached to them ; and did not david prophesie and saw christ set up a king upon the holy hill of zion , and said , he would declare the decree of the lord , the lord hath said unto me , thou art my son , this day have i begotten thee , aske of me and i will give thee the heathen for thy inheritance , and the utmost parts of the earth for thy possession , psal . 2. but j. w. would not have christ to have none of these , nor such large possessions , he will not have him the light , nor saviour of the world , nor have the heathen for his inheritance , and david saw christ a priest for ever after the order of melchisadecke , and did he not see this by the word that was in his heart , that was a light unto his pathes , and a lanthorn unto his steps , and he said , he had hid his word in his heart , psal . 119. and thy word is sweeter then the honey or the honey-combe : and solomon saith , pro. 8. 27. the lord possessed me in the begining , i was set up from everlasting , from the begining , or e're the earth was , was not this the word that was in solomon's heart , from the begining , and the word that isaiah the son of amos saw concerning juda and jerusalem , it shall come to passe in the last dayes , that the mountain of the lord's house shall be established on the top of the mountains , isay 2. from the 1. vers . to the 5. where he saith , oh yee house of jacob come yee and let us walke in the light of the lord , was not this the light of christ , by which he saw the mountain of the lords house that was to be in the last dayes , and was not this the word christ that was in the prophet , who said that their root should be rottennesse and their blossomes should goe up as dust , because they have cast away the law of the lord , and despised the holy one of israel , which law the prophet saw goe out of sion , and the word of the lord from jerusalem , was not this christ jesus the light , and word of god , and the lord sent a word unto jacob , and it lighteth upon israel , and is not this christ jesus gods covenant . and the prophet isaiah , when he spoke to the people , he told them their eares should hear a word behind them , when they turned to the right hand , or to the left , and their eyes should see their teacher , and he should never more be removed into a corner , and who is this that is given for a leader , and a guider , and teacher , is not this christ that the prophet calls to , when he saith , ho , every one that thristeth come and buy , &c. where he saith , incline thine ear and thy soul shall live , and i will make an everlasting covenant with thee , even the sure mercies of david : is not this in christ , and is not this call to every one that will come and incline their ear to the light of christ in their hearts and consciences , and hearken to the word in their hearts , which is given for a leader and a teacher of all people ; but , such ministers of darkness as j. w. never directed to this teacher and so keeping them in darkness , keeps them in sin , in wickedness , but the lord is coming , and is come already , blessed be his name , to redeem , and has redeemed many thousands out of their mouthes , and from under the tyranny of the oppressor which they have long kept poor people in , and ier. 15. 16. where ieremy said , thy word is myjoy , and the rejoycing of my heart . was not this word light in his heart , which is sown for the righteous , and joy for the upright in heart ? and again , ier. 20. 9. but his word was in my heart as a burning fire , shut up in my bones , and i was weary with forbearing , and i could not stay . and again , ier. is not my word like a fire , saith the lord , and like a hammer that breaks the rocks in pieces , chap. 23. 29. did not all these prophets and holy men of god speak and prophesie with many more , which the scripture makes mention of , from the word of god in their hearts that was in the beginning ; has thou not here denyed the emanuel , god with us , that the prophet isay testified of ; and so has denyed christ come in the flesh , whereby thou has clearly manifested thy self to be an antichrist indeed , for thou hast set thy self to oppose christ ; for , christ jesus himself when he preached to the multitude , he said , mat. 13. 3. &c. a sower went out to sow , and the seed that he sow'd was the word of god , and the field that he sow'd in was the world , and the ground that brought forth fruit to god was the honest and good heart . and he saith again , ye are clean thorow the word , &c. ioh. 15. 3. and again , sanctifie them thorow thy truth , thy word is truth , ioh. 17. 17. and again , heb. 3. who being the brightness of his glory , and the express image of his person , and upholding all things by the word of his power , when he had by himself purged our sins , sate down on the right hand of the majesty on high , was not this christ . but thou wilt say , it may be , if he be of the majesty on high , he is not in the hearts of people then . thy blindness , darkness , and ignorance of god looks so ; but , the apostle peter his exhortation was , that as new born babes , they should desire the sincere milk of the word , that they might grow thereby . and the apostle james exhorted them , to receive with meekness the ingrafted word which is able to save the soules , chap. 1. 21. and again , in peter 1 epist . 2. 6. behold i lay in zion a chief corner-stone , elect , & pretious , and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded , unto you therefore which believe , he is pretious , but unto them which be disobedient , the stone which the builders disallowed the same is made the head of the corner , and a stone of stumbling and a rock of offence , even to them that stumble at the word , being , disobedient , whereunto also they were appointed , 1 pet. 2. 7 , 8. now i. w. thou art this man , for thou has stumbled at the word , and art fallen , and shall never rise again , this stone shall grind thee to powder ; this is our corner-stone , which thou sayes , thou will confound ; but , the apostle sayes , he that believeth in him ( and we believe in him therefore ) shall never be confounded ; and so here thou will be found a lyer : and thou saith in thy book , thou will remove our foundation , which is the light in every man ; which is sufficiently proved , that it is christ jesus the foundation of all the prophets and apostles ; and here thou strives with that which is too strong for thee , the weighty stone must needs fall upon thee . and in 2 pet. 1. 19. where peter exhorted them to take heed to the more sure word of prophesie , and to the light that shined in a dark place , and to the day-star that would arise in their hearts ; but thy dark preaching is contrary to that ; and 1 joh. 1. 1. that which was from the beginning , which we have heard , which we have seen without eyes , which we have looked upon , and our hands have handled of the word of life , &c. let the serious reader but read this chapter , and see if by it he may not in his own understanding judge of the wickedness of this man , and also in the 2. chap. where the apostie saies , he writes no new commandement unto you , but an old commandement which ye had from the beginning , the old commandement is the word which ye have heard from the beginning . again , a new commandement i write unto you , which thing is true in him , and in you , because the darkness is past , and the true light now shineth . here the apostle manifesteth the word and the light to be one , in that he writes unto them in the word , and in the light that now shines , glory be to the lord for evermore , which the whole power of darkness hath long mustered up and stood against ; but he that is upon the white horse , who is called faithful and true , in righteousness he doth judge and make war , his eyes are as a flame of fire , and upon his head many crownes , he was cloathed in a vesture dipt in blood , and his name is called the word of god , rev. 20. 11 , 12 , 13. now i have done with thee as concerning this head , and thou will find that this word will judge thee in the last day , who hath punctually denyed christ jesus to be the word of god , which is his name , so he stands upon thee thy condemner for ever , and so thereby thou art manifest to be the antichrist . so the next head that i am to manifest to the reader , is , that thou makes a distinction of god and christ , and through thy denying of christ to be the light that comes into the world , and thereby denies christ to be come in the flesh , and thereby art the antichrist ; for thou saith , that christ is not the word and light which john bears witness of , but saist , it is the word creator ; and so makes a difference betwixt the father and the son , and so art just in the arrians principle in dividing the father and the son , which brought in heresies of old into the churches ; and contrary unto the angels testimony unto joseph and mary , who said , she should bring forth a son , and shall call his name jesus , for he shall save his people from their sins ; that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet , saying , behold a virgin shall be with child and bring forth a son , they shall call his name emanuel , which being interpreted , is , god with us . and so contrary to this , thou would divide christ and god. so here thou hast denyed christ of his propriety in the father , and hast blasphemed against the god-head , contrary to christ his own words , who said , i and my father are one ; and so here thou has joyn'd with the jewes in taking up stones to stone him with . and also , in the 8. of iohn and the 16. ver . and yet if i judge , my judgment is true , for i am not alone , but i and my father that sent me . and again , in the 14. of iohn and the 10. ver . believes thou not that i am in the father , and the father in me the words that i speak , i speak not of my self , but the father that dwelleth in me , doth the works ; believe me that i am in the father , and the father in me . and in the 2. vers . before , philip saith , shew us the father , and it sufficeth us , iesus saith unto him , hast thou not known me philip ? he that hath seen me hath seen the father . and again , ioh. 17. 11. keep them thorow thy own name , that they may be one as we are : and again verse 21. that they may be all one as thou o father art in me , and i in thee , i in them and thou in me , that they may be made perfect in one . and so thou that hast divided the son from his father , and the saints from them both ; thou hast committed sacriledge indeed , who has denyed the great work of salvation and redemption of mankind , which the apostle admired at , that god should send his only begotten son into the world , that whosoever believeth in him should not perish , but have everlasting life . but this christ thou has gain-said , and resisted , and denyed , and so is never like to have benefit by him , but he will be thy condemnation for ever . and here thou hast fulfilled old simeons prophesie in the 2d . of luke , vnto whom it was revealed by the holy ghost that he should not see death before be had seen the lords christ , who took him in his armes and blessed god ; and said , lord , now lettest thou thy servant depart in peace according to thy word , for mine eyes have seen thy salvation which thou hast prepared before the face of all people , a light to lighten the gentiles , and the glory of thy people israel ; and behold , this child is set for the fall and rising of many in israel , for a signe which shall be spoken against . and here thou art the man that has set thy self against him , and is fallen , and so has denyed christs coming in the flesh , and also has denyed god being in christ reconciling the world unto himself ; which the apostle said , 1 tim. 3. 16. was a great mystery , god manifested in the flesh , justified in the spirit . and so thou that denies the light of christ , and his spirit , which opens and reveales the mystery , thou art not like but to be ignorant who has denyed christ in his god-head , ioh. 5. 7. for the apostlesaith , there are three that bear record in heaven , the father , the word , and the holy ghost , and these three are one ; and this record thou has denyed , for first thou has denyed christ to be the word ; and secondly , thou has denyed christ to be one with the father ; and so thou has denyed christ to be god , except thou will have two gods , for thou has created already two lights , and two words ; thou will neither have christ to be the light of the world , nor thou will not have him to be the word which was in the beginning with the father ; nor thou will not have him to be gods covenant of light with abraham and his seed ; and also , the promise of god unto adam , where the lord said , the seed of the woman shall bruise the serpents head . and now let the reader judge whether thou be not a perfect antichrist , who hath denyed christ come in the flesh , both in his light , wherewith he lightens all people that comes into the world. secondly , he denies him to be the word which was in the beginning , by which all things was made and created , which is the word the apostle directed people to in their hearts , rom. 10. 45. thirdly , he denies him to be come in the covenant of god , which is light , by which he reconciles all things to himself , both of things in heaven , and of things in earth , ephes . 1. 10. and fourthly , thou has denyed him to be one with his father ; and so i believe here the reader will confess that j. w. is perfectly proved an antichrist ; for the apostle saith , joh. 4. 3. every spirit that confesseth not that jesus christ is come in the flesh is not of god , and this is the spirit of anti-christ , whereof you have heard should come , and now is in the world. and again in the 2 ep. of john and the 1. many deceivers are entred into the world , who confess not that jesus christ is come in the flesh , this is a deceiver and an antichrist . and so as for i. vv. he doth not only not confess christ , but hath denyed christ to be come in the flesh , as hath been manifestly proved , and so is he of whom the apostle saith , vvhosoever transgresseth , and abideth not in the doctrine of christ hath not god , but he that abideth in the doctrine of christ hath both the father and the son. here the apostle joynes them together , and puts them not asunder , as i. vv. doth ; and therefore , we are not to receive him into our houses , neither bid him god speed , but deny him as he hath denyed christ , and has proved himself an antichrist compleat . and whereas thou speakes in thy book , that multitudes are ensnared for want of dividing , or making distinctions between god and christ , and brings the 2 of peter 2. 2. many shall follow their pernitious wayes . answ . let the reader read the portion of scripture ; in his own judgment , and truth of his heart , let him judge whether this scripture be not a true character of thee , and thy generation of priests , or whether he can judge the quakers to be such a people as this scripture holds forth , and by this he may judge the falsity of thy judgment , and thy envy and malice , which breaks forth in lying ; the next words following are , many shall follow their pernitious wayes , by reason of whom the way of truth is evil spoken of , and through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandize of you ; who is this the quakers , or it is i. w. and his company of priests ? thou breakes off betime , if thou had written any further in peter , it would have come upon thy own head ; but there is a verse before , which saith , that there would be false prophets that would bring in damnable heresies , even denying the lord that bought them , and bring upon themselves swift destruction . here thou art perfectly set forth , for i believe never any denyed him more wickedly then thou hast done , as is manifestly proved , and so art that false prophet there spoken on . but again , verse 15. they were such as followed the way of balaam , for the wages of unrighteousness , art not thou one of these ? again there were such as walked after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness , must not thou needs be he who denyes the light that manifests sin and uncleanness , thorough the obedience of which they may be preserved out of it ; but they were to receive the reward of unrighteousness , and so wilt thou , who art reserved unto the day of judgment to be punished . and now thou being thus manifested and proved to be what is before mentioned , that the words in my letters will fall of necesity upon thee , though thou have endeavoured to cover thy self by thy setting my words in thy own frame , and thereby to make them seem as if they were railing speeches , and spoken without ground . and 1. where as thou saith , that i writ in my letter to manifest thy gain-saying spirit core like , let the readers judge whether this be not manifestly proved upon thy head before in gain-saying the truth christ , who is the light that lightens every man , &c. 2ly . thou saist i said , thou art without god in the world , my words are thus , the light in every one as it is obeyed , makes the separation from the world , which light thou denyes , and so art without god in the vvorld , who is light , and in him is no darknesse at all . 3ly . thou saist i said , thou hast manifested thy self to be out of the first step that leads to christianity , and art a priest of darknesse , these words are true upon thee , for the light christ jesus , the vvord ( which thou hath denyed ) is the entrance into life , and christ is the vvay , the light , and the truth , and the dore , which thou hast denyed , and so by christs own words , thou art a thief that enters not in at the dore , the light , but climb'st up another way , jo. 10. and so thy prayers , and all thy fleshly performances must need be abhominable , who art without the dore , christ the light , amongst the theeves and robbers , and of thy commiting sacriledge , that is proved before sufficiently , and also thy blaspheming against the holy spirit of god ; there needs no more to be said to that , it is sufficiently proved before . and in my second letter thou saith 1. i said thou begins with a lye , and ends with the devil , and sets j. w. next to him . thy own letter which thou sent to me , which i sent thee back again , will testifie that to be true , as it is there written . and is thou offended that i should mention thy own words to thee , art thou ashamed of them now , and art thou offended at me because i writ of that which thou had writ with thy own pen , thou art so muddeld that thy own actions torments thee . 2ly . thou saist , i spoke of thy black defiled heart and conscience : answ . they are so , and blackness and darkness thou art filled with , who doth deny and gain-say the light of christ in thy own conscience , and that is the cause thou art such an inveterate enemy against christ , the light , in every man , but his witness in thy own conscience will be a worm that will gnaw thee , and fire that will never be quenched one day , though thou make slight of it now : but did not thou say in a letter to me , thou had received my blacke lines , not that i writ these words to thee , rendering railing for railing , but my words are true upon thee in thy present condition . 3ly . thou saist i said thou was a child of darkness , what hast thou to do to take the name of god and christ in thy mouth , thou enemy of god. answ . my words are these , thou enemy of god that knowes him not , whom none knowes but the father , and none knowes the father but the son , and whom the son reveales him to , and thou that hath not a revelation of him art a thief , that takes his name in thy mouth , but the cause of my writing these words was , that thou had writ in thy letter to me , that i ought not to judge before christ iesus be revealed . 4ly . thou saith i said , thou art no believer in christ , thou art yet in thy sins , &c. answ . but my words are these ( thou said ) thou was in the light of christ that enlighteneth all believers , and my answer to those words was , thou art no believer of christ that abides not in his doctrine , for they that believes abides not in darknesse , where thou art , but is past from death to life , which thou art an enemy to ; and therefore do not deceive thy self , for thy hope will perish , and thy faith is vain , thou art yet in thy sins , and art thou offended because i said thou art yet in thy sins , and is it not thy doctrine that none can be free from sin while they are upon the earth , and art thou not a sinner , that 's proved a blasphemer against god. 5ly . thou said i said , thou was a man separated from god. answ . by his light , which thou art an enemy to . 6ly . thou sayes i said , thou never knewest nothing of the worship of god. answ . my words were these , god is not worshiped but in his spirit which reveales him , and so thou that has not the revelation , thou never knew the worship of god. 7ly . thou sayest i said , thou envious poysenous heart . answ . but my words are these , and for thy uncivil termes that thou has invented out of thy envious poysenous heart , as calling me the vvhore of babilon , and a woman drunk , and iessabel , with many other such like termes as these ; and so now the reader may see thy deceitfull and theevish dealing , though thou would hide and cover thy self , this manifests thee to be a child of darkness indeed . thou art ashamed of thy own words , and conceales them for these forementioned termes . thou writ to me in thy letter , when thou was drunk with fury , and takes mine in peeces , and perverts them , and belyes them , if thou had had any dram of honesty , thou might have set some of thy own foule words down which thou writ to me , or at least have set mine down in order as they were writ to thee , but to wrest , and pervert , and lye for thy own ends and advantage , has been the trade thou has followed all thy life time with the scriptures . 8ly . thou saist i said , thou art under the chain of it , it is over thee , a fighter against god and his truth , and the reward thou will be sure to have , and never look that that which is cursed will be blest . but thou hast left these words out , and thou hast preached another gospel then the apostles did , this thou hast left out , thou art accursed , and no other portion can thou have , and this is scripture and truth to thee . in my third letter thou saist i said , thou can do something in writing a book of thy own dreames , and thy imaginations and brain studies , and telling of lyes , which thou hatcheth out of darkness , but thou art a meer sot and ignoramus , thy evil and unclean heart , thy malitious , darke , envious spirit , thy weakness , inability and ignorance in the things of god , but my third letter began thus , j. w. thou has now made a poor end of thy boasting words , and thy assertion thou hath very meanly proved . thus far , and thy way of answering thus far , for what is written to thee manifests thy weakness , and ignorance , and darkness sufficiently , thou can do something in writing a book of thy own dreames , and thy imaginations , and brain studies , and telling of lyes and stories which thou hath hatched out of darkness , when there is none to contradict thee ; but to answer any thing which is plain truth and scripture , thy spirit and doctrine , and practice is so contrary to the truth , and the spirit of god that gave forth the scriptures , in this thou art a meer sot and ignoramus , and so framed thy answers of lyes , scandals and reproaches , and foule language , which comes out of thy evil unclean heart , for if any man should but read my two papers which i have written to thee , and thy answer of them , they may thereby read thy malitious , darke , envious speeches , and also thy weakness , inability , and ignorance of the things of god. and again thou saith , i having told her , that if she called the light that is in every man that comes into the vvorld christ , she set up an idol , and if she worshiped that light as christ , she was an idolater ; she answered thus , i never heard such words but from an infidel , and an idolater , and a blasphemer against god and christ : thou art an enemy of god , thou art worse then the jewes , thou art a fit man to joyne with the turk to set up mahomet , oh thou infidel , oh thou child of darkness . my answer to his was thus , i did never hear such words but from an infidel and a blasphemer against god and christ ; and i do not know that ever i heard any that ever owned the scriptures to be true , that ever denyed so much of the truth there written , as thou hast done , never take christ iesus into thy mouth , who hath said himself he is the light , thou enemy of god , thou art worse then the jews that denies he is come , thou art a fit man to joyne with the turk to set up mahomet ; dost thou think that christ hath many such enemies as thou in england ? oh thou infidel ! who wilt thou have for thy redeemer , wilt thou not have him that is come a light , who hath said , while you have the light believe in the light , that you may become the children of the light ; oh thou child of darkness , what dost thou believe in ? where will thou appear when the righteousness of god is revealed in flames of fire upon the head of the wicked ? then thou will know revelation , which thou dost not yet . and again thou saith , speaking of christ , she saith i am a witness for him against all such antichrists , and deceivers , and blasphemes , as thou art , thou art a minister of the night , and of the darkness in the apostacy , thou art a night bird , the curse and the judgments that 's written therein , ( speaking of the scriptures ) christ jesus and the apostles hath pronounced it upon thee , thou art the man. my answer was , and is thus , where thou saith in thy letter to me , if ever i was of good savour , i have lost it by the abuse of the 〈◊〉 jesus , and miserable wresting of the scriptures . my ans . was , i am a witness for him , he hath raised me up from the death to the eternal life , which is the record and image that i bear of him , and for him against all such antichrists and deceivers , and blasphemers as thou art , which john saw was entring into the world in his day and time ; which spirit of antichrist hath lived in you and amongst you untill this day , and hath descended upon you from generation to generation in this dark night of apostary , and thou that art a minister of the night , and of the darkness in the apostacy , thou art now tormented that the light is come , and the day hath sprung from on high upon thousands , glory be to the lord for evermore ; so that many can say , that the darkness is past , and the true light now shineth , and this torments thee , who is a night bird. and whereas thou saist in thy letter to me , i wrest the scriptures . my answer was , and is , my paper where it stands will testifie against thee to be a lyer , where the plain scripture is set down without any wresting , and the curse and judgment that is therein written , christ jesus and the apostle hath pronounced it upon thee , and thou art the man which is guilty of the same , which they are pronounced against , and thou cannot hide thy self from them , thou wilt be sure to find them true upon thee one day , when thou cannot cover thy self , as thou hast endeavoured to cover thy nonsence with my name . and again thou saist , because i asked this question , thou asked me , what parish priest in england had got more money with his tongue then george fox had done since he was journey-man shoomaker in manchester ; and where thou saist , my answer was , thou art a wicked , proud , disdainful spirit , a heathenish spirit which torments thee and many more such night owles as thou art . let the reader judge whether thou be not a wicked lyer in these words thou hast set down , and whether my answer in my letter was as thou hast set them down , for in thy letter to me , thy words stands thus , i think thou would not take it wel that thy friend g. f. should be call'd a priest ; and yet what parish priest in england has gotten more money with his tongue then he . where thou said , i would not take it well if my friend g. f. should be call'd a priest . my answer was thus , he was never of such a deceitful trade as to cheat people of their money , or to make people believe that he would bring them to god , and yet keep them in darkness and sin , and preach down the light of jesus , which they should believe in , joh. 12. as thou and such deceivers hath done ; for he was of an honest true calling , according to thy report , and he was called from it of the lord into his work and service , as the apostle was , and to lay open , and manifest such deceivers as thou art , &c. and here i charge thee to be an open and manifest lyer to all that reads these foregoing words , who hath set down in the first page of thy appendix , that m. f. affirmeth that g. f. was called from the shoomakers trade . now let the reader see whether ever i mention that g. f. was a shoomaker , for if i had , i had spoken that i did not know , and has thou that boldness and impudence as to say , i affirm , when i do but answer to thy words , and according to thy report he was of an honest trade , and that he was called of the lord unto his work and service , i am a witness , and many thousands more , glory be to the lord for evermore ; which is the cause of thine and many such night birds of your torment , and makes you fret your selves , and curse your king and your god , and looks into the earth , but beholds nothing but trouble and anguish , isa . 8. 21 , 22. and this is your portion that is come upon you . and whereas thou saist , i said thou was an impudent , a wicked , ungodly lyer , thou lyer , a proud disdainful spirit , a heathenish spirit which torments thee , and many more such night owles as thou art . my answer is this , thou said g. f. is not as he was when he first came to lancaster : my answer was , thou lyer make it to appear , wherein did thou see him then what he is not now , is this the answering of the letters that was sent to thee to turn into lying and slandering , and villifying ; this is like thy frothy spirit indeed , that instead of answering my papers , thou tells of g. f. that he is not as he was before as above , and why art thou so envious and malitious against g. f. whereas thou saist i call'd thee a heathenish spirit , thou said in thy letter , thou hadst read of a monk , and tells a story about him , my answer was further , such things is the fittest for thy heathenish spirit to read on , thou hath more knowledge and unity with them then thou hath with the scriptures , and the spirit of god that gave them forth ; therefore it is time for thee to give over deceiving the people , and making a trade of tradesmens words , ( which was the saints ) for thy belly , &c. this thou would shufle off instead of answering me , and whereas thou saist further in thy letter , what parish priest in england hath got more money then he , my answer was , here thou art a wicked , ungodly , impudent lyer , and i charge thee to bring one man in england that will say they gave him one shilling for teaching , or else let thy mouth be stopped for ever , if thou do not send some particular whom he hath taken money of , or else thou manifests thy self to be an envious spirited man , and i shall look upon thee to be so , &c. and the lye remains upon thee . and thou said further in thy letter , that g. f. having caught the fish , is likely will cast off his leather-cloathes . my answer was , he was moved to put them on , when he went to cry against such bryery spirits as thine , and thou may see his leather-cloathes yet , if thy pride and envy will suffer thee , thou thinks he has gotten as much with his leather-cloaths as thou hast done in thy chappels , shops , and with thy leather belt , he hath caught that which torments thee , and many more such night owles as thou art ; who hath fished long , but it hath been in the night , and so thou hath catch'd nothing , but thy own gain thou counts for godliness . and whereas thou said in thy paper , that the quakers trade is a very gainful way , which hath gained multitudes to the likeing of them even for advantage sake . my answer was , the multitudes that is gained torments thee , because it manifests thy dry , husky , false , deceitful ministry , which hath beat thybrains all thy days to feed the swine with , i believ thy flock would soon be counted that thou hath gathered , for babilon is loosing her children dayly , praises to the lord for ever , and the spirit and the bride saith come and see , those that gathers multitudes to the lord , is like to vex and torment thee ; but what gain or advantage hath the quakers got , thou wicked lyar , except thou counts whippings , prisons , stockings advantage , and the spoiling of their goods , and rifling of their houses , and stealing their corn , as many of thy generation hath-done ; and now thou art out of power , now thou smitest with thy slanderous tongue , with lies slanders , and false accusations ; but thou sayes thou aimes at a greater thing then getting money in opposing the quakers , which is the glory of thy god , which is the devil , the god of the world is thy god , and thou hath done what thou canst in opposing the quakers to get him glory , but now is the time that both thou and he is judged , and cast out , blessed be the lord , and the son of man who is the light and truth , and way to god christ jesus is lifted up from the earth , which shall draw all men after him , and him thou villifies , blaspheames , and speaks against , and so thou is like to speak against us that beares testimony for him . and whereas thou saist in thy appendix , that i said thou hast a great measure of the spirit of envy , malice , and cruelty , and blood . and thou said in thy letter to me , thou hath a true measure of the spirit , and aime of that envy and malice , &c. my answer was , thou hath a great measure of the spirt of envy , malice , cruelty and blood , and thou hast done well to confess it , but there is none of this in my lines , but the very plain truth to thee , and upon the which is thy condemnation for ever , this stands upon thy head , and thou canst not get from under it , and so here is an end of the substance of my letters which he mentions here a word , and there one in his appendix , some of them being an answer to two letters he sent to me . and here the reader may read the folly and ignorance of this man how he glories in his own shame , and who speaks great swelling words of vanity , and has manifested his own shame , j. w. so long as thou has made a cover for thy self of lyes and false accusations to hide thee under , which is all the refuge thou can take to , as thou hast done in thy appendix , in thy taking pieces of sentences , thinking thereby to hide the truth , and verity , and also thereby would cover thy own shame and nakedness ; but when this refuge of lyes is swept away , then thy shame and nakedness doth appear , and thy lying and wickedness returns upon thy own head , and thy nakedness appears : thy pen had better been still , and thou silent , then to have spoken and written against christ jesus our corner-stone , which thou saist , thou will remove ; but thou art too light , he was before ever thou or thy father was , which was a lyer from the beginning , the weighty stone that is burdensome to the nations , is too heavy for thee to shake , and thy foundation is shaken , and crusht , and broken already , for thou art here proved to be a blasphemer against him , and an antichrist against him , and these things here before written are charged upon thee , and proved against thee , and except thou can clear thy self of the charges here charged against thee , stop thy mouth , and stay thy pen , and lay thee down in the darkness , and stop thy boasting mouth ; and thou saith in thy appendix boastingly , what feeble shifts are these , my assertions strikes at their very foundation , and before they make that good , they would run into other matters , but though they seem to be weary of their cause , i must told them to it till their corner-stone and mine be so thorowly tryed , that it may undoubtedly appear whether of them is the true rock christ jesus . answ . thy rock is a poor rock , an old image that thou hast digged and graven out of thy dark-brain and study , where all the conjurers and old divining priests in the apostacy , ever was , and is , this is thy rock , a natural created light , and spirit of a natural man , and has denyed christ jesus , which is the rock , the church of god , is built upon ; but thou hast split thy self of this rock , and is fallen in the pit . and thou boastingly saith further in this appendix , that thou art willing and ready again to debate the point in controverse with g. f. or any of his friends before the high sheriffe , or any in authority if they should require us to come forth for that end . answ . here is a crack indeed , thou durst not have said this , but thou thinks the sheriffe would not send for thee , thou puts it upon the magistrates and the sheriffe that thou thinks will not trouble thee , or else thou durst not have ventured on this boast , for i believe that on equal termes thou durst not ingage with old henry wood and william holden , not before the people to make good thy assertion that thou boasts so much on , which thou hath no cause to boast on , but to be ashamed of , for this is manifest of thee already in that thou hath not answered old h. w. queries yet , nor cannot do , and what dost thou talk of g. f. meeting thee , there are thousands in england that would turn and overturn thee and thy assertions ; and thou art grieved that old h. w. and w. h a blacksmith should engage with thee to answer thy challenge , for i believe they are of ability , for did not old hen. w. stop thy mouth before the people that thou could not answer him ; and now thou goes and calls for g. f. to shuffle it of thee , thou sure thinks that would be an honour to thee , and by that thou thinks thou could shuffle of answering h. w. and w. h. of making good thy assertion , it 's an easie matter to overthrow thee and thy assertion , any babe in the truth may soon manifest thee that never was in the truth , and so never mention g. f. coming to thee before thou has done with others that thou art engaged with , for there is a cloud of witnesses against thee , all the saints in the scripture bears testimony against thee , and all that knows truth , or ever will know it , doth and will witness against thee , and all of thy spirit and principle , and before thou make any more boasting , see if thou can clear thy self of what is here charged against thee , and proved upon thee , and by the scripture of truth that is to say , ( 1 ) of being a blasphemer against the holy ghost . ( 2 ) of being a minister of darkness . ( 3 ) of being an idolater . ( 4 ) of being an antichrist . see if thou canst cast this of thee before thou talk and boast that thou chiefly desires to deal with g. f. and such others as say they are apostles , that their doctrine and deeds being brought to the light , it may be truly known whether they be true apostles indeed , or false . answ . poor conditioned man what wilt thou try with , with thy dim , dark , natural created light ? thou art tryed and proved already , and weighed , and found too light , and so thy trying is little worth , the false apostles know more of the truth then ever thou did , and yet thou art so impudent , that thou talks of trying true apostles , but this is like thy former folly , but all has been to manifest and bring to light thy rotten hypocrisie , with which thou has deceived people , but thou will proceed no further , thy folly is so manifest , and thy filth is so uncovered that now people will see thee and thy deceitful wickedness , that with thy lying tongue can speak of regeneration , and new birth , and of trying true apostles and false , with many other words which thou has stoln out of the scriptures , or else thou could not have spoken them who denies the first principle of truth christ jesus the light of the truth , and the life , and the way to god , and therefore he stands upon thy head , thy condemner for ever , for i have heard many ministers and teachers , and seen their works , but i never saw nor heard such a humble jumble confused piece as this of thine , of dividing god and christ , and such distinctions of the light and word , but proves nothing of what thou intends , but leaves it confused like thy self , and sits as judge upon the son , and sits as judge upon the saints , and sits as judge upon the world , &c. and now j. w. since thou has taken upon thee withal thy might and main to push with thy horn against the lamb and his followers , and has engaged open war with him , and has boasted as though thou would remove him out of his place , and that in a publick testimony , let us now prove and try thy foundation , and let us see how thou will demonstrate thy strength , and manifest thy ability to performe this that thou has undertaken , that is to say , to wit , to remove our foundation , or we thine , which may be manifested to the reader by thy answering these following queries . 1st . query . whether the light that is in thee be not darkness , but thy asserting , to wit , that the light in every man is not a saving light , as also considering what is here proved before for the confuting of thy assertions ? 2dly . whether thy eye be not evil , and so thy whole body full of darkness , since that christ hath said , that the light of the body is the eye , and by thy assertion thou hast denyed that eye , and put it out ? 3dly . whether dost thou believe that thou thy self has the light of christ in thee , since thou has asserted that he has not inlightned every man , yea , or nay ? 4ly . if thou have the light of christ in thee , how comes thou by it , or where had thou it more then other men , and if thou was one of the world , and now is not , how came thy change , and when , and where , didst thou receive that which makes thee to differ from other men ? 5ly . thou has taken upon thee to teach people , how was thou called to it , or by whom was thou made a minister , didst thou ever hear the voice of god , hast thou the revelation of jesus , as the apostles had ? 6ly . dost thou turn people from the darkness to the light , and from the power of satan to the power of god , art thou no minister of the letter , but only of the spirit , as the apostles were ? 7ly . where is thy flock that thou has gathered from the power of darkness unto the marvelous light , as the saints in the scriptures were , is thy flock in unity and fellowship with all the saints in light , how is it then that thou denyes christ jesus the corner stone , and rock on which all the church of god is built ? 8ly . and how came thou and thy flock to be saints , since yee deny christ jesus the foundation , which is the stone is laid in sion , and how came you to differ from the rest of people since god is no respecter of persons , and what has made the difference betwixt thee , thy flock , and the rest of all other people of the world , shew it and manifest it forth wherein yee differ , and how yee came by that which makes yee to differ ? 9ly . thou saith in thy book , thou would have us to return to the true christ , and thou lookes upon our christ to be an idol , and has left us without direction to the true christ , thou speaks on , so my query is where this christ is thou calls the true christ , and what he is since thou has denyed him to be the light ? 2ly . thou has denyed him to be the new covenant , and law written in the heart . 3ly . thou has denyed him to be the word in the beginning . 4ly . thou has made a separation betwixt him and his father , so what is this true christ of thine , being thou saith who worships all these ( before mentioned ) worships an idol , being thou hast told us of a true christ , and has left us without knowledge of him , and without direction how to know him , thou wilt be in danger here to be one of the blind leaders except thou manifests to us what he is , and where he is , which thou has not done in all thy book , but all thy work has been to strike at ours , and called him an idol , and yet has found us no better . 10ly . thou seems by what thou hast writ in thy book as though thou were a tryer of spirits , and makes distinctions of lights , and speaks of two words ; and also , thou speaks as though thou could judge of regeneration , or new birth , and who has the spirit of god , and who has it not ; and not only so , but as though thou could try true apostles from false , and true doctrines from false , so thou has taken upon thee a high seat of judgment , when thou has taken upon thee to divide the father from the son. therefore , i charge thee in the presence of the living god , and as thou wilt answer it before the lord and his elect angels , to answer to these things , when and where , and how didst thou receive the word of life which was from the beginning , when did thy eyes see it , when did thy hands handle it , that word of life that was with the father , which the apostl . did see & bore witness of ? jo. 1. 1 , 2. 11ly . when and where didst thou receive the power of god , which is , the gospel , the apostle preached , which is salvation to every one that believeth . 12ly . when and where , and how was it , that the son of god was revealed in thee , when he was revealed in the apostle he was to preach the gospel to the heathen , didst thou receive thy ministery by the inspiration of god , and conferred not ( as the apostle did not ) with flesh and blood , yea , or nay ? 13ly . was thou not made a minister of men , neither by men , neither was thou taught by men , but only by the revelation of jesus christ ? 14ly . when and where was the holy ghost poured upon thee as it was upon the apostles when they were met together , as also peter bears witness ? acts 5 : 30 , 32. who were faithful witnesses of jesus christ that he was a prince and a saviour ; and so also saith the holy ghost whom god hath given . heb. 10. 14 , 15 , 16. whereof the holy ghost is a witness to us , &c. now if thou hast received this holy ghost manifest when , and where , and how , if thou dost not stop thy mouth of thy tryings , and of thy distinctions of god and christ , and shut up thy treasures of darkness and sorcery , out of which thou hast blasphemed against god , and those that worships him. and in thy book thou saith , speaking of the priests , and of the world , being cloathed with guilt , were never able to this day to look this people in the face , to wit , the quakers . answ . prove and quit thy self of being one of these priests and people by answering of those queries above written , as also curwen's 24. queries , and also henry woods queries which all stands unanswered , and thy assertion stands false yet , and unproved , and thou stands proved and charged a blasphemer , a minister of darkness , and an idolater , and an antichrist , by plain scriptures of truth , which never can be broken , thou art proved to be all these , so see if thou and all thy flock and confederates can wipe this away off thee that is laid upon thee . and , answer all the queries that is sent to thee by plain scripture , without wresting or turning , or adding , or diminishing , left the plagues of god be added unto thee , and if thou dost not , thou and thy followers and all thy companions will be found amongst those that are not able to look the quakers in the face , for thou has as much guilt upon thee as ever man had , which may well cause thee to turn thy back , and stop thy mouth . and so this is but an answer to a part of thy appendix which concerned me . margaret fell. and whereas thou saist , another writes thus , thou opposes the truth , art an enemy to christ , an opposer of the gospel , the power of god , and several other truths : the substance whereof is plain truth , and to thy condition every word , as thou hast manifested in thy book . and whereas thou writes , that another writes thou art in thy will-worship , carnal ordinances , thou hardens thy self against the truth , thou art an enemy to god and his truth , &c. ans . but if thou hadst been an honest man thou would have put in all my words to thee in thy book , and their names who they were , but they have hit thy condition , therefore art thou tormented . and whereas thou saist , this is william houldings paper ; thou speaks falsly , for it was mine henry wood , and as for mine william houldings paper thou hast not put it in thy book , which speaks about george foxes leather-breeches , which thou having lost religion , god and christ , hast made such work about his leather-breeches , but g. f. likes them better then thy cloak of hypocricy ; and so its like thou was ashamed to put my letter in thy book , or thy own letter either , in which thou made such work about them , now this is wood's reply : i put thee in mind first , that thomas curwen and i henry wood did write some queries to thee , expecting to have them answered by thee , which were the occasion of the dispute , as the record of the dispute will make manifest , and whereof there was no end made of the assertion which was put forth , has caused many papers to pass and repass , and according to my freedom i passed thy paper upon this account , because i had been an eye witness , and an ear witness of some proceedings there , and of thy joyning with william barret a cheshire man , and this was about nine years ago at manchester at john maddocks house in a dispute with our friends ; another time there was a dispute held at the same house between thee and richard huberthorn , at that time thou made thy self manifest , for thou broke into passion , and said he was a publick person , so that thou was reproved by one of thy own auditors edward gaythorn by name , but not withstanding , thou rose up and went away , uttering these words , that if thou had known that so many would have been present , thou would not have been there that time , although thou had said before that thou was a publick person ; i knowing these proceedings gave forth this paper that the reader may know the ground wherefore i thus write ; because , i had known thee thus long to oppose christ the light , therefore those queries sent by old henry wood and thomas curwen were as pills to thee sent for this end , that they might work out that old leaven of bitterness which i have known lying so long within thee , as i have made mention of before , and this i may say , truly was done in love to thy soul ; now this not being so taken , it caused thee to spew out these words , and to be so large in writing against friends and the truth , and for the reason of calling them dogs the scriptures are very plain , for they were called greedy dumb dogs who sought for gain from their quarter ; and yet there was many to lick up their vomit ; likewise , they were called dogs which were without as thou may read in the revelations . and for thy challenge to us we were willing to meet thee , but thou was not willing to meet us , although thon before challenged to meet g. f. or any of his friends ; what is the cause , dost thou not condescend to men of low degree , for if i meet thee it is not with hoasting my self in other mens lines made ready to my hand , but in the name and power of the lord , in the light of his son christ ; for this i say unto thee , if thou had not used deceit thou would have written down my whole paper , but i shall cause it to be written down my self that all may see it ; and do not charge george fox with it ; and since thou hast given a second challenge , but hast not answered the first , which we did call on thee to do , and to make good thy assertions , but thou shuffles off from it , and names g. fox , and flees from us , and will make it good to neither , the paper is as follows , we desire thee with patience to read it over . oh friend john wiggan it seems old wood's and curwen's pills which they gave thee to work out that old leaven that hath layn so long within thee , but this hath wrought of the contrary part , and hath caused thee to vomit and spew out upon a piece of paper , and sent forth for the dogs to lick up , and they being eager doth take so much of this thy filthy spewing that it causeth them to vomit as thou dost ; therefore it was high time to call for it that no more be made sick with it ; thou hast used so many friends names in it , that by the reason that it was taken away so suddenly and unexpectedly that they cannot reply unto it ; thou saith , thou hast answered wood's queries , but it appears that they remain unanswered ; and likewise thou put down 24. queries of curwen's unanswered , therefore henry wood and thomas curwen will meet thee to answer thy challenge which thou hath put forth , and saith , thou would be answered before the high sheriffe , for we are not careful to answer thee in this matter , although thou useth the name of christ , thou doth not depart from iniquity as it doth appear by thy smiting at the corner-stone , which is the light ; thou art far behind the woman of samaria , for she said , is not this the christ that hath shewed me all that ever i did ? it appears to me that thou esteems this at a low value , which shewes thee all things that ever thou did , and calls it natural , although it testifie against those things that are natural and carnal , where thou art worshipping the god of the world , which blinds the eye of the children of disobedience , the vaile of darkness is so thick that thou cannot see thorow it , nor comprehend the light , that giveth the light of the glory of god in the face of jesus christ , which shineth in the heart : and whereas thou saist , thy assertion is made good ; it appears to all that are wise that it is not made good at all ; for thou hath challenged another meeting , so appoint the place and time , and thomas curwen , and henry wood , and william houlding , or any of them will meet thee , and hear what thou can say against christ the saving light. now whereas thou saist , not a word in all those papers discovers the unsoundness of thy assertion . ans . thou should have published the papers to the readers , and then they might have judged of it , whether thou hast spoken truth or no , but thou art afraid to publish that which makes against thee , but takes here a word , and there a word , thinking thereby to villifie friends , but they are made manifest in the hearts of people , and all thy slanders nor any thing thou canst do will hurt any of us , for was there a worse word spoken to thee , which was spoken in the truth , then thou thy self did speak to me and other friends faisly and unjustly , and why didst thou not publish in thy book those four sheets of paper that the reader might have seen them , and our expressions in our letters ; had they been light , vain , and frivilous , thou would have made advantage upon them and not have hid them , but have published them in thy book , as thou hast done some few lines of them , but they are true unto thy condition , and will stand on thy head , and it doth become saints to bear testimony against deceit , and there is much in thy papers that contradicts thy assertion , and my paper was true and overthrew it which thou publisht a few lines of ; and then tells the reader of four sheets , and never a word to discover thy assertion , and thus thou loves thy deeds of darkness and hates the light , and thus thy folly is made manifest to all men , 2 tim. 3. and whereas thou saist , thou hast not published this abroad , but we have done it first ; which is false , for we did publish nothing in the town , for the letter which i gave to the jaylor thou hadst , but i did not send it into the town , but gave it to thomas hardy , but thou sent thine into the town , and abroad , and was not so honest as to give us a coppy of it ; and thy assertion was answered by plain scripture , but was never proved by plain scripture ; but is thy chaffie imaginations , and wresting the scriptures , which is nothing but spewing from a child of darkness , which hates the light , joh. 3. rev. and hath not god spewed thee and thy religion and worship out of his mouth , levit. 18. 28. and whereas thou speaks , how we cursed thee with the plagues of god ; the scripture saith , the plagues of god is to thee who adds to the scripture , as thou hast done ; and it was thou that said , the plagues of god was upon me , but thy curses are causless ; so what we have writ and spoken to thee it was from the spirit of god , and the lord hath judged between thee and us in this matter , and his judgment is clear , and thy hidden things of darkness is come to light , 1 cor. 4. and there is no communion between light and darkness , 2 cor. 6. and the mist of darkness is over thee , 2 pet. 2. the darkness hath blinded thy eyes , joh. 2. reserved under the chains of darkness , jude 6. and rev. 6. read that and see thy own condition . whereas thou saist , had it not been a more easie and commendable work in one sheet plainly to have discovered and refuted error , ( if any such be in my writings ) then to have filled 3. or 4. sheets with such stuffe as this , surely a right spirit would have lead them this way . ans . those three or four sheets was most of them particular letters sent to thee by many persons , so as i said before thou shouldst have published the whole letters , not part of them , and let them have spoken themselves to the reader , and thy errors are sufficiently manifest in thy book , and thou would have a sheet of paper written to thy book five sheets , in a few dayes time , which concerns several friends 60. miles distance one from another , this was wiggan's policy and his peoples , to get the book again , and to boast that it could not be answered . and thy next words , concerning antichrists fair speeches and allurements , while there is hope to make merchandize of them ; is directly thy own condition , for now thou being stirred up and opposed , rages , who did appear to ignorant people like a lamb , but thou was known to us before , for now thou art loud and clamorous , and falsly accusing when thou canst not get thy will about , like to the whore in proverbs 7. and josephs mistress , genesis 39. and 2 pet. 3. and whereas , thou speaks of owning preachers not sent , but denyes the lord that bought them , and preaches not the same jesus , and gospel as paul did , such thou saist thou ownes not , but denies . ans . then thou denies thy self and thy own assertion , for the apostle preached that jesus , which said , he was the light of the world , joh. 1. and joh. 8. so thou art the man that christ never sent , rom. 10. 15. and jer. 23. 32. and thou art proved the antichrist that denies the lord that bought thee , 2 pet. 2. and jude . 4. and so art one of them that crept in unawares , who preaches another jesus , another gospel then christ the light. and whereas thou saist , we boast of gifts , &c. and that it s reported to thee that g. fox had the gift of tongues , and by such like pretences we gain a multitude , and it is a certain character of antichrists last coming that many shall follow their pernitious wayes . ans . our boast is not in gifts nor tongues , as knowing they begin at babel , but our rejoycing is in the word christ jesus , and in his light , truth and spirit ; and we would have all men and women come to the same in themselves , which thou denies , by which they might know the lord , by which a multitude is come to follow the lord , and to walk in his way the light , which thou enviously calls a pernitious way , and a mark of antichrists coming ; and thou antichrist like would draw people from the light , and spirit of god within them to thy own way , but god hath overthrown , and is overthrowing thy pernitious wayes , and many who have been followers of thee , now comes to follow the lord ; and that makes thee thus to rage , mathew 24. 5. 1 pet. 2. 2. and our way is christ , and he is our guift of god. and after this thou sends 12. queries abroad , and thou thy self couldst not answer my queries , nor wood's ; is this the part of a man of wisdom , or reason ? nevertheless , i shall not let thy queries pass unanswered , though these queries are not to us chiefly . thy queries are as followeth ; 1 query . whether it can be found in all the scriptures that any of the true prophets , or christ , or his apostles ever used such language as is before mentioned in any person professing repentance towards god , and faith towards our lord jesus christ ; or whether it be not clearly the spirit of an antichristian spirit , as hath been hinted . ans . thou that has denyed christ jesus to be the light of the world , and calls him an idol , and hath denyed christ the light to be saving , contrary to the scriptures , luke 2. 38. thou hast denyed repentance and faith in christ , for thou hast denyed that which thou should believe in ; and therefore thy words bears the mark of antichrist , 1 joh. 2. 18 , 22. joh. 4. 3. joh. 2. 7. and what we speak of thee is true upon thee , and the apostle used such language to such like , as acts 13. 10. where the apostle called elimas an enemy of all righteousness , a child of the devil , which perverted the deputy from the right way of god , as thou dost people : and read timothy and titus , and there see what words the apostle gives to evil beasts and slow bellies , titus 2. 1. 2. query . whether there can be any other gain in the aforesaid censures , then to cast an odioum upon , and to cause a disesteem of the persons opposing them , and whether this was not the practice of the false prophets and false apostles , thereby to gain more credit to their own cause . ans . this is thy own condition , for what gain is it , by all thy former slanderous words which thou cast both upon christ and us , that christ should not be believed in , and that we should be of disesteem among people , that holds truth forth to all people that they might believe in him who enlightens them ; and this was the work of the false prophets and false apostles , to disesteem of christ and the apostles , that people should not believe in him , nor receive their doctrine ; as mat. 28. 12 , 13. and 2 cor. 10. and did they not say , christ deceived the people , read mathew ; and did they not say , jeremy deceived the people ; but the false prophets and false apostles could get the true christs , prophets and apostles words , but was out of the life , and not being in the spirit , the true apostles alwayes judged them , as thou art now , 1 peter 2. and jude . 3. query . whether it be not a manifest abuse of the scriptures , and a presumptuous introduction into the office of christ , positively to affirme that the sins of any man shall never be forgiven in this world , nor in that which is to come , meerly because he denyed the light that is in every man that comes into the world to be saving , in as much as the scripture no where saith thus , that the light is saving . ans . thou doth not only deny christ the light to be saving , but thou denyest the holy ghost to reprove the world , &c. and christ saith , all sin may be forgiven but that which is against the holy ghost ; and thou dost also blaspheme and sin against him , not as he is a man , but as he is the light and spirit , mat. 12. 36. and whereas thou saith , the scripture no where saith , that the light is saving , the scripture saith , christ is the light , and he is the salvation , john 8. and the lord shall be to thee an everlasting light , and the lord is the saviour of his people : and joh. 12. i am come a light into the world , saith christ ; and he is a saviour : and psal . 27. 1. and david saith , the lord is my light and salvation . and here thou lyes against that which the holy ghost hath said , in saying the scripture saith , no where the light is saving ; and in isai . 49. 6. where the lord speaking of christ , saith , i will give thee for a light to the gentiles , that thou mayest be my salvation to the ends of the earth : and god is light , and he is a saviour : and here thou may see how thou denies the scriptures . 4. query . whether this people do not censure all men and women in the world ( as well as the author of these papers ) to be out of the first step that leads to christianity , to be infidels and to be accursed , if they deny the light that is in every man that comes into the world to be saving , and whether is not this as much as to say , that they only and none besides themselves are christians , and whether is not this a great appearance of pride in them thus highly to esteem themselves above all others . ans . there is few people of the world will deny that the light of christ ( which enlightens every one that comes into the world ) is saving but thou ; and such priests as thou art who contends against the truth , and it is not pride to confess christ the light to be saving , and deny them that denies it , and say they are out of the first step , for christ being the light , life , way , and salvation , thou , and those that denies him to be saving , are out of the first step to god , for christ is the way to him . 5. query . and whether are not all those censures directly contrary to the saints , and such as make them lyable to greater judgments , mat. 7. 1 , 2. jam. 3. 1 , 2. answ . that which hath been spoken to thee hath been truth , and mat. 7. speaks to thy own condition , who judges unrighteously of christ and us , and thou art in that condition where many masters is , jam. 3. 12. from the one master christ , mat. 23. 6. query . whether do not these clamorous and evil speakings for which there is no scriptural warant , manifestly flow from bitterness , anger , wrath and malice , as the apostle intimates , eph. 4. 31. ans . we do not know of any that hath spoken more clamorous and evil speeches against christ and his people then thou hast from thy earthly , sensual , devillish wisdom below , jam. 3. 16. & eph. 4. 31. in the malice , wrath , envy , clamor , and evil speaking that thou art in against christ the saving light , &c. 7. query . whether any wise experienced christian can judge of this people to be in a perfect sinless state , who appears with these open sinful railings , cursings , judging in their mouthes ; nay , since this they boast and glory in this their shame , whether is it not evident that they are the servants of corruption ? ans . railings , curfings , boastings and glorying , and such like we deny , but we speak the truth to thee , as in rev. 22. as the plagues added to them who adds to the scriptures ; and our rejoycing is in the truth ; and the apostles did not raile when they told such false teachers as thee , 〈◊〉 what was their properties : and its manifest by thy railings against us that thou seems corruption . 8. query . whether this hath not been their manner all along , to strive to overcome with these carnal weapons , threatnings , censurings , cursings , revilings , &c. and since no scriptural weapon is yet imployed in the management of their cause supported thereby . ans . our weapons are spiritual , and by scripture weapons we have overthrown thy assertion , as may be seen in the book , and the rest of thy fellow priests ; and censuring and revilings , &c. hath not been our weapons to overcome with , but truth hath been our weapon , by which we answer that of god in every one ; but railing , revilings , and persecutions hath been your weapons against us , the nation knows it , when you were not able to resist the light of chrisi jesus , and the spirit by which we spoke : and here thou belyes us in saying , we use no scripture weapons , but it hath been by the scripture and the spirit of god all along we proved you to be deceivers , our writings and bookes will witness against thee . 9. query . whether it be not abominable wickedness to father all their evil speeches upon the holy ghost ; and to say where they curse , raile , revile , speak falsly and frothily , that it is by his inspiration and command . ans . this is thy own condition , when christ and the apostles spoke to the pharisees they did not flatttr them , nor smooth them up as the false prophets did , ezek. 13. 14. and the holy ghost leads us to speak truth to every man according to their conditions without flattery ; read how many woes christ pronounced against thy generation in mathew 23. so in this thou hast wronged us , and belyed us as thou hast done before . 10. query . whether can any man rationally conclude that these people bear any true love to that person whom they judge to be the enemy of god and accursed , and whose sins shall never be forgiven in this world , nor in the world to come , or rather when they profess love , and say they desire his welfare , is there not just ground to believe they speak lyes in hypocrisie as its said apostates should do in the latter times , 1 tim. 13. ans . our love is to all mankind , and we would not have had thee to have run into such sins against the holy ghost , telling thee plainly what would come , and relating to thee the portion due to thy condition , as in rev. 22. and herein stands our love as from the lord , who rains upon the just and unjust , and causes his sun to shine on both ; and herein we do shew the mark of our father , and that we are the children of our father which is in heaven ; and so our love is not partial like thine , which thou enviously and maliciously termes to lyes in hypocrisie , which was spoken for loves sake to thee ; but bray a fool in a morter and he will not forsake his folly , as solemon saith : and 1 tim. and an enemy to god thou hast proved thy self ; and for that cause we cannot flatter thee , acts 13. 2 thes . 2. 3. phillipian . 3. 18. psalm 7. 5. psalm 80. 6. 11. query . do they not plainly discover a persecuting spirit in the aforementioned reviling , and may not any man in reason conclude that whom they judge an enemy of god , and accursed , they would use as such , if that they had power . ans . cain is afraid where there is no fear , and thou being in his spirit manifests the same , for when did any of us lay such violent hands upon thee as thou didst upon thomas curwen and john abraham , when they came to discourse with thee of the things of god ; so that hath been spoken to thee in love and kindness , as was told thee before , that thou might have turned from thy wickedness ; that was the cause why thou thus accuses us , and as for the persecuting spirit , and reviling that is thy own . 12. query . and last i leave it to be considered by such as will take the pains to read the account which i have given of the light within , whether they do not speak all this evil of me , meerly because i have told them the truth and not for any other cause , &c. ans . that which thou hast spoken hath been against the truth , and is lyes , and the reader may see , thou calls christ an idol , a natural light , a created light , and spirit of a natural man , contrary to the scripture ; and so thou being against christ , the scriptures , and gods people , therefore have we writ to thee , and spoken to thee , being according to thy own challenge , in love and in a scripture way ; and it is for christs sake thou hates us . and whereas thou speaks of another sheet that thou will present to discover the mystery of iniquity . bring out all the strength thou hast , for it will further discover thy own iniquity , and thou shalt not find christ natural or created , nor an idol , but in his strength we shall answer thee . and whereas thou saist , to the inquirer and weak , take heed of the religion that begins with a lye , for it is certain , a great judgment of god to be given up to believe lyes , 2 thes . 2. 10. and that the first step to this peoples religion is an abominable lye ; and that every one is taught and required at his enterance into this religion to believe this lye , i have shewed in my former paper . ans . it is thy own religion which is begun with a lye , therefore all people are to take heed of it , who denies christ the light , joh. 1. 8 , 12. and art given up to believe lyes , and utter the same , 2 thes . 2. and whereas thou maliciously saith , to turn people from the darkness to the light of christ , being our first step is a lye . ans . in this thou hast proved thy self a false minister , and contrary to the scripture , and the apostles ministry , which was the same , which is the first step ; in this thou hast manifest thy envy , as all yong people may see who enquireth after the lord , acts 2. and the abominable lye is thy own , and little else but lyes in thy book , and so thou may expect the judgment of the lord to be thy portion . and whereas thou bids them take heed of that spirit that denyes christ come in the flesh , least they be partaker of his evil deeds by biding him god speed . answ . this is thy own condition , thou art the man who denyes him to be come to enlighten all men , and denyes his light to be convincing , and so has denyed john's testimony ; a man sent from god , john 1. and so none that feares god can bid thee god speed in thy evil work , therefore thou art offended , and we shall not be partakers with thee of thy evil deeds , for no other christ do we own but he who dyed at jerusalem , above sixteen hundred years since , who sits at the right hand of god , and is revealed in us according to his promise , who saith i will come and dwell in you , as in joh. and the cor. 1. cor. 3. 16. act. 3. 20. and collo . 1. 26. 27 , 28. and all who are called christians confess christ to be come , but deny the end of his coming , to destroy the devil and his works , 1 ioh. 3. 68. and to take away sin , but they must have sin while they be upon the earth , this is your general doctrine , and denyes christ to be come a light into the world according to both the prophets and apostles . and whereas thou saist , take heed of that people who have no better weapons , then censures , cursings , judging , threatnings . answ . our weapons are spiritual , and we have related over to thee thy due according to the scripture , as the scriptures threatens thee , and pronounces these plagues to be due to thee , who addes to it , and we teach that people might follow christ jesus the light of the world , and not follow thee who saist he is a natural light , and an idol , and a created light , and james 3. 9. is thy condition , and so thou art the man that deceives people with vain words , ephe. 5. 6. and with fair speeches the hearts of the simple , rom. 16. 18. and as for giving satisfaction thou art not likely , who denyes the light christ jesus , and any who reads thy confused book may see there is no satisfaction given in it , though thou hast perverted many scriptures ; and as for thy further debate , upon thy assertion we tould thee we were ready , and tell thee so now again , who hast challenged us twice in this thy book to meet us before the sheriff , which thou might have spared this challenge in thy appendix ; for we had given thee an answer before ; we would meet thee ; to wit , thomas curwen husbandman , william houlding blacksmith , william wilson taylor , and henry vvood a dayly labourer ; seeing thou art the man who hath challenged us , we shall in the strength of the lord meet thee when thou wilt , and appoint a time and place , for we were the men whom thou hadst first to deale withall in this place ; and what dost thou scoffingly put shoo-maker in , which was not in , which is a word of thy own forging , as though thou was not able to answer us , or durst not stand to thy own assertions ; but shuffles from them : and one would have thought john. henry vvood had given thee disputing enough before , when thou was so gravel'd and stopt , thou fled away from the table , and now it seemes thou hast put it of , till the magistrates call us out , as though they had nothing to do , but to medle with thy antichristian wayes ; nevertheless it stands on thy head , and do not say we provoked thee , for it was thy own challenge , for thou hast taken that in hand thou canst not make good by the scriptures , without adding or diminishing , we know that before hand . and whereas thou saist , he that saith and affirmeth the light in every man to be christ is a deceiver , and an antichrist . ans . the light that lighteth every man that comes into the world , he that affirmed this was no antichrist , joh. 1. who said , as many as receives him , he gives them them power to become the sons of god ; and here thou hast shewed forth thy malice against christ and against the apostle , who bore witness of him , and in plain words calls him an autichrist , and against us who are in the same doctrine , and teach the same thing , and thou hast proved thy self to be an antichrist , 2 joh. 9. for christ is the light and salvation to the ends of the earth , who doth enlighten euery man that comes into the world , joh. 1. joh. 8. luke 2. 32. and thou saist , what feeble shifts are those , my assertion striks at their very foundation , and before they make that good they would run into other matters , they seem to be weary of their cause , but i must hold them to it , till their corner-stone and mine be so thorowly tryed that it may evidently appear whither of us be of the true rock christ jesus . ans . thy rock which thou so calls , is tryed and found to be no rock but confusion , who denies christ jesus the true rock , which the prophets prophesied of , should come , whom the apostles witnessed was come ; and for thy false saying that we grow weary , and before thou complained we urged thee on , how stands thy confusion together , with reasonable men , let them judge , and we do not shuffle with thy assertion , neither are weary of our cause , ( which thou saist we are ) for we need not , for we know what thou art who is wholly bent against christ , it is thou which is weary of thy cause , and shuffles as thou hast reason ; for we relate some other of thy assertions which thou hast laid down , art thou now ashamed of them , and yet saist , thou will hold us to it , and yet answers nothing to the purpose , and it is christ the foundation which thou strikes against , as the jewes did , but to no purpose , and thus thou and thy fellow priests hath strucken at him , who is our foundation , till you be all fallen into the ditch , and leads the people thither too , it is manifest to the nations . thou saist in thy appendix again , thou art willing to debate the point in controversie before the sheriff , or others in authority , and saist let not g. f. thinke to shuffle himself out , and put his taske upon others , for he must know because it is affirmed that he was called of the lord from his trade as the apostles were , my desire is to deale with him chiefly in this matter , and such others as say they are apostles , that their doctrine and deeds being brought to light , it may appear whether they be true apostles indeed or false , and preach another gospel then jesus and paul did , as i have cause to suspect them , and doubt not to prove them to be , if they adhere to the principles laid down in their printed books , and maintained in their late debate . answ . this is thy shuffle and base charge , whereas thou saist g. f. would shuffle from it , and lay it upon others , that is false , it s thou would shuffle from those which thou hast begun withall , it seemes we gave thee enough the last time , thou needs not call of g. f. for the least of us in the truth is able to answer thee , and to see if thou can make good thy assertions , which thou could not make good in the last dispute , nor hast not done yet , which we yet call on thee to doe , which by the scriptures of truth thou canst not prove , without adding or diminishing ; and the same jesus and gospel whom paul preached , whom we own , which thou saist thou will prove an idol , and prove us antichrists who affirme this ; and as for all our books , which are given forth from the truth we own , and our deeds are brought to the light , and by this thine are seen , and thou too , to be one of the false teachers , and thy deeds to be deeds of darkness , and why dost thou pervert m. f's . words , in saying g. f. was called from his trade , when her words was , he was called from his calling , as thou reports and thou talkes of trying apostles , and denyes the light christ , in thy dark spirit , and calls christ an idol and natural light , and as for g. f. whose name thou hast publisht abroad in thy letters up and down beyond the sands , and towards manchester , and to m. f. and sometimes scoffing at his leather-breeches , sometimes at one thing , sometimes at another , and never was so civil as to write to him , so we do look thou should make thy assertions good to us , before thou medle with him , for they concern us , and we are the men that will encounter with thee , as before mentioned , according to thy challenge , whom thou in scorn calls meckhanike men ; and as for me thomas curwen , i nor none of us are no more mechanicke then thy self , nor never had collection yet john. though i have been a prisoner above four yeares , canst thou say so john ; and as for me g. f. i never spoke with thee but three times since thou came hither , and once at london , and i heard such euil language from thee as i never heard from man ; & i coming into the last dispute with friends , and then there being liberty granted , i hearing thee lay down thy assertions , and affirming them together with thy people ; first , that some men that came into the world had not the spirit of god ; which was put to thee to make good , ( being thou was the mouth for them ) by plain scripture , without adding or diminishing , which thou seemed to prove out of jude , which thou couldst not ; and that god denyed faith to some men , and that christ did not shed his blood for all men ; and that balaam had no more spirit then his horse ; and that wicked men had not the spirit of god : these things with several others which you asserted was put to thee to make good , which thou hast not done to this day ; nevertheless , thou hast challenged to meet me g. f. and having disperst my name in several papers in a slanderous way ; and thy brother price which came down to fell's chamber , and challenged me out , which i presently came up , and sent william houlding to thee , and bid thee come down to me in the hall , but thou would not come at me . and whereas thou challenges me g. f. to meet thee before the sheriffe . my answer is , send me word when thou wilt , and that thou will make these assertions good , by the plain scriptures without adding or diminishing , which thou hast laid down to me , for i am ready to meet thee through the power and strength of almighty god , and if i have liberty , according as thou hast challenged : and many things more i have of thine for thee to make good ( which i shall not here put to ink and paper ) by plain scripture , for truth remains over all deceit . g. f. and why dost thou flatter me william houlding , dost thou now own mechanicks ; but thou owned none when thou writ to m. f. but jeared at g. f. in this report , and lost thy religion to talk of his leather-breeches , and thus fools will be medling with that which doth not concern them , busie bodies in others matters : and when thou had abused m. f. in thy papers , she sent for thee to speak with thee about the abuse , but thou would not come at her , and manifested herein thy guilt and uncivility ; and dost thou not make a noise abroad against us , amongst ignorant people , and keeps them from the light , that so thou maist get some collections of them ; for thy letters to m. f. signifies something of a false fear and jealousie , that something should have gone besides thy mouth , cruly i think that is the cause of thy rage against us , who owns christ jesus the light. w. h. here followes a coppy of a paper which was given to john wiggan of his assertions . friend john wiggan , we hearing of a book thou hast given into the town before we had a coppy of it , another challenge to us to meet before some publick magistrate , and the sheriffe , we william houlding blacksmith , and henry wood a daily labouring man , who cannot read on a book , and thomas curwen husbandman , and william wilson taylor ; who in the strength of the lord desire to give the said john vviggan a meeting before the sheriffe , as he hath challenged us , and hath sent his challenge into the town and not to us , with many villifying and slanderous words in the said book which he hath sent amongst the people ; so let all the wise in heart judge of this man whether he hath carried himself like a rational man yea or no. the assertions are as followeth . 1. for john vviggan to prove and make good out of the scriptures of truth . 1. that christ doth not enlighten every man that comes into the world with a saving light , contrary to john 1. 9. 2. that the light wherewith every man is enlightened that comes into the world is not a saving light. 3. to make good that which thou hast laid down , that there is some men that comes into the world hath not the spirit , contrary to iohn 16. 8. acts 2. 7. 4. that christs blood was not shed for all men , contrary to the 1 epistle of iohn 2. 2. 5. that balaam had no more of the spirit of god then his horse , and which was held forth in the dispute against us , contrary to numbers 24. 17. 6. that balaam did not see the starr of iacob , contrary to numbers 24. 17. 7. and that wicked men hath not the spirit of god , nor the holy ghost , contrary to gal. 2. neh. 9. 8. that the light before faith is not pure , contrary to rom. 7. 12. 9. and that christ the light that lightens every one that comes into the world is an idol , contrary to ioh. 1. 9. 22. 13 & 46. 10. that the grace of god is an idol , contrary to ephesians 2. 5 , 8. 11. and that there is no mercy with god , contrary to psalm 13. 6. 12. that christ is not the word , contrary to revel . 19. 13. 13. that the light is a false christ , contrary to ioh 12. 33 , 46. 14. and that light doth not shine in darkness , contrary to iohn 1. 5. 15. and that god who is the word , doth enlighten every man that comes into the world , is not saving . 16. and that the light christ that enlightens every man that comes into the world , is a natural light. 17. that some are in the flesh , and hath not the spirit : this is he to make good and prove how they can quench it , and grieve it , that hath it not . 18. that some that comes into the world have not a saving light. 19. some there are that are in the flesh , and never had the spirit , contrary to rom. 10. 20. that the time must come that men must break their plow-shares into swords and speares , which his brother price justifies in a book , and john wiggan was offended because we marked it out for error ; and these things we would have the said john wiggan to stand to , and make good before the sheriffe ( as he challenged ) by plain scriptures of truth in the new testament . for both the scriptures and common-prayer testifies against thy principles . some more of john wiggan's assertions , which are not many of them , in the former above written . 1. that the light in every man that comes into the world , is not the door , nor the mediator , saviour , nor redeemer , nor the way , truth , the life , the lord that bought them , nor the corner-stone , nor the infallible spirit . 2. that it is not the true jesus , but an idol , the light wherewith every man is enlightened , or the light that lighteth every man. 3. to follow christ the light is to follow a pernitious way . 4. that the light was natural , and spirit of a natural man , and was that in adam which let him see his sin . 5. that light which is darkness spoken of in math. 6. 22 , 23. le ts man see his creator . 6. and this light looketh upon every thing done , or to be done of man , and yet this light maketh not any thing that is done , to be good or evil , and yet this light sheweth the creator , and this light in man will render god righteous in his proceedings against man. 7. that christ doth not give his spirit to every man that comes into the world. 8. that they in iude spoken of , as cain and cora , and balaam had not the spirit . 9. and this light with which every man is enlightened is natural , and its gross to say , that the light which enlightens every man is christ . 10. that the light in every man is but the spirit of a man , the law written in the heart . 11. that who so worships that light that enlightens every man that comes into the world , as redeemer , worships an imaginary and fictious christ , and an idol , denying the person of the true jesus . 12. that whosoever saith , that he that is the light in every man is christ , is a deceiver and an antichrist , and iohn wiggan will prove them so . 13. and it is the subtle deceiver , and adversary satan , that saith , the light which doth enlighten every man that comes into the world , is the lamb , and the lord , and the object of faith . 14. and the light that doth enlighten every man is the word , and before he said it was the natural man's spirit , and an idol , &c. 15. that the light , the word god , which enlightens every man is natural , and man by it knows nothing of christ , though he confess by it , he knows the eternal power and god-head , the fulness whereof dwells in christ bodily . 16. and the word god , the true light , which doth enlighten every man that comes into the world ; he saith , is darkness , mat. 6. 22 , 23. 17. and the word god doth enlighten every man that comes into the world , by setting up a light and spirit in man , which is called the candle of the lord , and writing a law in his heart , and the light which doth enlighten every man , is not the word which was in the beginning . 18. and christ came a light into the world not to enlighten every man that comes into the world , and this light is able to seek and feel after god his creator , and by it man may know his creator , and the eternal power and godhead , it is a created light , a great light , it is but a candle light , but it discovers man's transgressions , and this light springeth up with mans spirit , and this light is the spirit of a natural man , ( which doth not know the things of god ) and this light discovered adam's sin , and this light is natural and not spiritual . 19. but this light knows nothing of the gospel mystery hid in god , nor redemption by christ , nor of gods good purpose , and grace , nor of the law of faith . 20. this candle-light , to wit that light wherewith every man that comes into the world is enlightened , is not able to discern the mystery of god in christ . and so make good these things by scripture , or stop thy mouth for ever , for thou challenged us first , or give over challenging ; for we would have discoursed with thee privately in a christian way in thy chamber , but thou in great rage denyed it ; and another time thomas curwen came into thy chamber in a christian way , and thou took hold of him and shook him by his coat , and like to have torne it off his back , and laid violent hands on him , and would have thrust him out of thy chamber : for , it s very well that the discourse be before a magistrate to keep thee civil , for thy carriage in the last dispute was not so hansome . so provided that thou keep thy people in order , and thy self also , that you may speak one by one , and so speak as many as will on both sides , that the spirit need not be limited in any , for thou was the first man that broke the order in the last dispute , and spake when another man was speaking , which was taken notice of by all the wise and sober . and also provided that thou keep down that foolish spirit of laughter , and be more modest and civil then thou was in the last dispute when we were discoursing of the things of god , and answer these things by scripture according to thy challenge before the sheriffe , and in the strength of the lord we will meet thee , if liberty may be had , and when thou hast made good these things by scripture ; if thou have any thing to say to any else they will answer thee . these principles he hath laid down , and spoken to friends , and some were in books , which his brother evan price sent to us , and iohn wiggan was offended because we did mark them for errors ; which you may see how contrary they be to the scriptures of truth . william houlding blacksmith , henry wood who is a daily labouring man , who cannot read a word on a book , and thomas curwen husbandman , and vvilliam vvilson taylor , dointend to give iohn vviggan a meeting before the sheriffe according to his challenge , if the lord will : and these things and also worse things in the book we desire to be brought forth to the light at the dispute , and there they may be proved ; for he did challenge us first , though our lives be out of disputes , yet we shall give him a meeting , and for him to make these things good by plain scripture . and also besides all the scandals , slanders , and villifyings , and lyings , and unsavory sawcy language , and scornful , reproachful speeches , in a jearing , scoffing , and villifying way against us ; and these be some of his notorious principles , which he could never make good by plain text of scripture , which he has long made a trade upon to get his living by , and in a feigned carriage and humility to go up and down , and insence and sow discord , and to make the minds of the simple envious against such as honours god and loves virtue , but his rage and violent hands hath been known upon richard huberthorn , iohn abraham , thomas curwen , and others ; who may seem to be simple , and in an outward appearance to be a humble man to those who swallow down all , without any question , proof or tryal , but when he comes to be tryed , his rage , and passion , and violent hands comes to be felt and seen by such as reasons with him in a christian way . we desire thee i. vv. that thou would send for the book which thou and thy brother price was grieved , because we marked them for errors , which was so contrary to scripture . here followes some queries for j. w. to answer . 1. whether i. vv. is a fit man to preach the gospel of peace , that layes violent hands on people ? 2. and whether or no that he can preach the gospel of peace , and be not in the peace himself to all men . 3. and whether or no this was the spirit of christ in i. vv. when thomas curwen went to reason with him of the things of god in a christian way , and like to have torn his coat off his back , that t. c. was faine to cry out , what a minister of christ and fight ? and also iohn abraham , when he went to him to be satisfied in the things of god ; he laid hands of him , and thrust him away ; whether or no these be the fruits of a minister of christ , and whether or no these be not the fruits of a natural man ; and whether or no this spirit can give satisfaction in the things of god , but only with his natural spirit , make use of the scriptures for his own end ? 4. and whether or no such a persecuting spirit ( both with tongue and hands ) be not alwaies blind . 5. and whether or no the blind leads any whether but into the ditch , so whether or no he that leads into the ditch doth know the things of god that leads to heaven . 6. and whether or no this blind spirit may not give forth many queries for others to answer , and yet answer none proposed to him , and lay down many assertions , and make none good by the scriptures of truth , as you may see henry vvoods and thomas curwens queries lyes unanswered yet , and his own false assertions not proved by the scriptures without adding or diminishing . 7. and so whether ( a striker , a railer , a fighter ) christ sent such to preach the gospel of peace , and such as disdaines and scornes tradesmen , and calls them mechanicke men , as iohn vviggan doth ? 8. and whether or no he doth not go in the high priests rode , scorning the apostles , as being tradsmen & fishermen , & unlearned ? 9. and whether or no these simple tradesmen did not bring more glory to god then all the wise men ( such as iohn vviggan ) in the earth , or pilat with his greek and latin ; yea , i say abel , iacob and david , keepers of sheep , and elisha called from the plow , and amos a herdsman , and peter and iohn fishermen , and paul a tentmaker ; nay , did not the iewes mockingly call christ a carpenters son : and what think you now of iohn vviggan who has called and challenged us mechanick men , twice to meet him before the sheriffe , that he would make good his erronious assertions , and when we laid down his assertions , and said , we would meet him , he now disdaines us as mechanick men . 10. whether these hands that will thrust and pull , and hale , and like to pull peoples cloaths off their backs , be the holy hands that are lifted up in prayer , 1 tim. 2. 8. or the fifts of wickedness spoken of in isa . 48. 4. thomas curwen . william houlding . henry wood. william wilson . errata . page the 3. line the 2. for some read so . p. 6. l. 10. f. the r. thy . p. 24. l. 22. f. thing r. things , p. 25. l 22. f. not as r. as not . l. 32. f leght r. light . p. 43. l. 4. f. the spirit of a man , r. the spirit of a natural man. l 27. f. is r. not . p. 52. l 3. f. springing r. spring . p. 54. l 16. f. deserve r. discern . p. 64. l 8. for knows the things of god , r. knows not the things of god. l. 28. f. ligh read light . p. 66. l. 36. f ligh r. light p. 73. l. 36. f. is r. his . p. 78 l. 4 f. game r. gaime . l. 15. where ever is twice , blot out the one . p. 87. l. 9. f. overshipping r. overskippng p. 88 l 31. f. luke the tenth , r. luke the first . p. 103. l. 10. f. sad r. said . p. 105 l. 23. f. without r. with our . p. 130 l 34. blot out deserves line 36 for seems read serves . the end . some scriptures which overturns wiggan's assertions . god so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son , that whosoever believes on him should not perish , but have everlasting life . i have no pleasure in the death of him that sinneth . i have no pleasure in the death of the wicked . if any of you lack wisedome , let him ask of god , who giveth to all men liberally , and upbraideth no man. god hath made of one blood all nations of men , perverse disputings of men of corrupt mindes . evil men shall wax worse and worse . 2 tim. 3. 13. christ is a light to lighten the gentiles . luke 2. 32. salvation of god is sent unto the gentiles . the grace of god which brings salvation hath appeared to all men. titus 2. 11. they turned the grace of god into lasciviousness . the worlds were made by the word of god. by the word of god the heavens were of old . as many that corrupted the word of god. in christ dwells all the fulness of the god-head bodily . the true light which doth enlighten every man that comes into the world. i am the light of the world saith christ , so christ is that light which shines in darkness , and the darkness comprehends it not . god commanded light to shine out of darkness , and shined in our hearts to give us the light of the knowledge of the glory of god in the face of jesus christ . i am the light of the world ( saith christ ) they that fellowes me shall not abide in darkness , but shall have the light of life , believe in the light while yee have the light , that yee may be the children of the light. such as rebels against the light , men love darkness rather then light , every one that doth evil hates the light , neither doth he bring his deeds to the light , lest his deeds should be reproved , and every one that doth truth , brings his deeds to the light , that he may see whether his deeds be wrought in god , but jo. wig. saith , the light is not salvation , contrary to david , psal . 27. the lord is my light and my salvation , who then shall i fear . jo. wiggan saith , the light doth not reprove the sin of unbelief , contrary to paul to the ephesians ( who saith ) whatsoever is reproved is manifest in the light , and so this is plain that unbelief is manifest by the light. but there is a spirit in man , and the inspiration of the almighty giveth understanding . the dust turn to the earth , & the spirit to the lord that gave it . they also that have erred in spirit shall come to understanding , they that murmured shall learn doctrine . thus saith the lord , he that created the heavens and stretched them out , he that spreadeth forth the earth , and that which cometh out of it , he that giveth breath unto the people , and spirit to them that walk therein . gods saving health among all nations , let all people praise the lord , let all people praise the lord , let all nations praise the lood and sing , but jo. vvig . speaks contrary to david , how can gods saving health be among all nations when they have not the saving-light . look unto me all the ends of the earth , and be saved , for i am god , and there is none else . but jo. wiggan saith , they have nothing but a created light , that is darkness , mat. 6. 22. oh jerusalem wash thy heart from wickedness that thou maist be saved , how long shall thy vain thoughts lodge within thee . all flesh shall know that i am thy salvation , but how can all flesh know his salvation , when they have not the spirit , as j. wig. affirmeth . this is good and acceptable in the fight of god our saviour , who will have all men to be saved , and to come to the knowledge of the truth , but jo. wiggan saith , god denyes faith to some men : and so gives god the lye , and saith christ doth not enlighten every man that comes into the world with a saving light. and with all deceiveableness of unrighteousness in them , that perish because they receive not the truth in the love of it , that they might be saved . but how can they obey the spirit and truth , when they have it not , may jo. wiggan say , i will that men pray every where lifting up holy hands . but were thy hands holy j. vv. when thou laidst such violent hands upon me , tho. curwen , and thy spirit of god. turn yee at my reproof , and i will pour out my spirit unto you , i will put my spirit within you . i will put my spirit within you , and will make you a new heart , and a new spirit — such as vexes the spirit — the flesh lusteth against the spirit , and the spirit against the flesh — but jo. vvig . maniests that he knows nothing of this warfare , who saith some hath not the spirit to war with , he that soweth to the flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption , but he that soweth to the spirit , shall of the spirit reap life everlasting . — jo. vvig . that would not have the spirit in every man , its plain he soweth to the flesh , & not to the spirit , for he saith it is not within them : quench not the spirit . they erred in spirit . they have erred from the faith . and balaam erred from the spirit . shall receive a recompence of their error . rom. 1. the spirit of the lord came upon balaam . the spirit of the lord came upon saul . 1 sam. 10. the spirit of the lord came upon the messengers of saul . and so this overthrowes vviggan's assertion , who saith wicked men have not the spirit . — all the while my breath is in me , and the spirit of god is in my nostrils , christ is the saviour of the world , and giveth unto the world. — my flesh i will give for the life of the vvorld , joh. 6. 15. go yee into all the vvorld , and preach the gospell , mark 16. they that believe shall be saved , but they that believe not shall be damned . i am the light of the vvorld . i am not come to judge the vvorld , but to save the vvorld . ioh. 12. that the vvorld may believe that thou hast sent me . — god was in christ reconciling the world unto himself , 2 cor. this is condemnation , that light is come into the world , and men loved darkness rather then light , because their deeds are evil . i am come a light into the world. joh. 9. done despite against the spirit of grace . hebr. 10. but they rebel'd and vext his holy spirit , therefore the lord became their enemy . ifai . 63. 10. vers . zach. 2. the spirit of the lord remain'd among the children of israel . i will pour out my spirit upon all flesh , for i have poured out my spirit upon the house of israel , saith the lord god. so here thou may see they that erred from the faith , and erred from the spirit , and hated the light , had it . — contrary to vviggan's doctrine aforemention'd . — did not i make one ? yet had he the residue of my spirit , that he might seek a godly seed , therefore take heed unto the spirit . the gospel which yee have heard , which was preached to every creature under heaven . — warning every man , that they might present every man perfect in christ jesus . — that by the grace of god christ should tast of death for every man. — christ is the propitiation for our sins , and not for ours only , but for the sins of the whole world. — and many more scriptures might be aledged , which doth overthrow wiggan's assertions that proves wicked men had the light , and the spirit , and christ dyed for all men. john vviggan , in stead of answering to the assertions , thou tels us of a natural and created light , springing up with man's nature , and natural man's spirit , which is an idol worse then jeroboams and the papists ; nevertheless thou saist this light will let them know much of god , and of the eternal power and god-head . now that this light which is an idol will shew the eternal power and god-head , and yet shew nothing of christ in whom the fulness of the god-head dwells . — how stands this together john — and can a natural light , an idol know the eternal power and god-head , know much of god , and seek and feel after god — idols are dumb , haba . 2. and hath eyes and sees not , as the scriptures faith , and was this natural light an idol , which reproved them for their sins ; doth not the scripture say adam was made in the image of god , in righteousness and true holiness , and was this an idol he was made in , which reproved him for sin : and judas who was made partaker of the ministry , and the light which john was sent to bear witness of , was a created light , and an idol , worse then jeroboams , which as many as received him ( that thou calls an idol which cannot hear nor see ) he gave them power to become the sons of god ; by this natural light and idol the world was made , by thy account ; and this which thou calls a natural light and idol , was in the world , and the world knew him not , and this light which thou thus calls , shines in the darkness , and the darkness comprehends it not . this is wiggan's assertion , but my queries i sent unto thee , which thou shufles of , and dost not answer them , since thou talks so much of bread and wine ; whether it be christ or no ? seeing some of thy fellow baptists teachers are turned papists , who were wrangling against the light , and now say the bread is christ , after they have blest it , and therefore we suspect thee , seeing thou art posting on the same rode against the light , so fast . and instead of answering , thou hast taken upon thee to be a judge of christ , a judge of the world , and a judge of the saints conditions ; and confusedly patches all together , and thou divides god and christ , and calls christ the light a natural and a created light , and an idol worse then jeroboams , and the papists , which all sober people may see what a pack of confusion thou hast heaped together in thy book , for a natural light and idol cannot bring people to seek and feel after god , nor know the eternal power and god-head , neither was it a natural light and idol that shewed judas his sin when he had betrayed christ , neither was the image of god which adam was made in ; and god the word that enlightens every man that comes into the world , a natural light and an idol . john wiggan , thy eye is blinded , it is time for thee to give over thy trade , with thy erroneous principles and doctrine . and christ when he bid them believe in the light , joh. 12. it was not an idol he bid them believe in , but it was in christ the light , and in christ was life , and the life was the light of mon , and this was not an idol , and this is the same principle and doctrine which we suffer for , there was a man sent from god whose name was john , he came for a witness , to bear witness to the true light , and that was the true light which enlightens every man that comes into the world , that all through him might believe , and as many as received him ( to wit ) the light wherewith all be enlightned , he gave them power to become the sons of god , joh. 1. to the 12. vers . and so this light which doth enlighten every man that comes into the world , shines in the darkness , but vviggan's darkness cannot comprehend it , and thus he judgeth the things of god with his darkness , in calling the light of christ , and also that which convinc'd adam , &c. a natural and created light , and an idol , and the spirit of a natural man which knows not the things of god , and also he compares the light in every man to the state of the natural man there spoken of , 1 cor. 2. calling light darkness , and to the natural and sensual state in jude , for nature being subjected , is in it self not sensual , but being gone out of its course , becomes sensual ; but this is like to the rest of his meanings he hath given to other things in his book , but we do intend to put him to make them good by plain scriptures , without adding or diminishing ; for our foundation for ever stands sure , for we speak not of the natural mans spirit , but of christ the light , the second adam , the lord from heaven , nor do we speak of the law of works , nor the first covenant , but we speak of the new covenant in the heart christ the light our foundation , whom all the prophets foretold of , who is come to teach his people himself , who joh. vviggan pretends to remove , and so hath run himself into further confusion . and ioh. vviggan saith , that the light which doth enlighten , &c. is the word creator , and yet he saith it is natural and created , and an idol worse then ieroboams : and thus all may see he confesseth that the light is the word creator , and and yet he saith it is an idol : joh. wiggan saith , god the word enlightens every man that comes into the world , and a more excellent light and life comes in by the son , which none receives but who receives the son , and are born again . answ . they which receives this light which thou call the word creator , ( in thy own assertion ) becomes the sons of god ; for john said this was the true light which lighteneth every man that comes into the world , and as many as receives him to them , he gives power to become the sons of god , and this word is christ , as it is plainly proved ; and god was in christ , but thou goes about to divide god and christ : by the word of god was the heavens of old , 2 pet. 3. 5. we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of god , heb. 11. 3. and that by this word they became the sons of god , according to the scriptures , before laid down , what difference then dost thou make betwixt this word creator , and that which comes in by the son , as thou speaks of , what can the son do more then make them sons : so herein thou hast quite overthrown thy self ; what further excellency , or what more redemption can be had by christ , then to become the sons of god. and whereas thou saist that we are adulterers , but we see that thou art adulterated from the spirit , which causes thee to vent forth such language as thou dost and thy hearers ; for whereas thou scornfully told william houlden , that he was an unfit man to meet thee before the sheriffe : thy assertions are so gross and so erroneous that i do not question but in the strength of god , i , or any other that were named to thee , to meet thee before either the sheriff , or any other in authority in england , that thou may make them good by scripture without either adding or diminishing , which thou canst not doe but over-throw thy own assertions : and whereas tho. rushton one of thy hearers said , i was a silly man , and was not fit to reply to what thou had written against me , but i having had perfect knowledge of thee this nine yeares , and how thou hast stood in opposition against the truth , christ the light ; that in his strength i stand to reply to thee , or to appear before the sheriff or any other in answer to thee . i fear the lord , and am not afraid of your great boasting and scornful reproachful words . henry wood. a postscript . how now john wiggan , didst not thou pretend at lancaster that thou couldst not swear , because it was a command of christ and the apostle which forbids swearing : and why could thou not bear testimony before the judge , but that then thou would have time to consider of it — though before thou had laid down thy reasons and arguments which thou intended to produce , which thou shewed to john stubs and others — and where was thy arguments and reasons when thou came before the judg hadst thou forgot them , that they stood thee in no stead , but that thou must have time to consider of it ; it seemes thy arguments and reasons did not satisfie thy self , or else thou jugled , or durst not confesse christs doctrine openly , or otherwise fainted esau like , and so was ashamed of christ and his doctrine before men : and did not john vviggan enter his recognizance for his appearance at the next assizes at lancaster and what is the matter john — how hast thou given the slip from under sufferings ? hath the heat of persecution scortched thy blade . furthermore did not john wiggan enter into a promise before the judg that he would preach no more , and that he might have time to consider of the oath : and so upon this condition he was set at liberty , and to appear at the next assizes : and then did not john wiggan give the slip and goe to london ; and when he should have been at the assizes , he lay there in holes and corners , and preached and published his lyes against the truth : but truth hath sunk thee into the sea , and will meet with thee where ever thou goest . g. f. the copy of this last sheet was miscarried , and came not to the printers hand till the rest of the book was finished . the end notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a35520-e300 iohn wiggan ove throwes his assertions . notes for div a35520-e12590 john wigans blasphemy . john wigan proved a blasphemer . j. w. proved a minister of darkness , and an idolater . notes for div a35520-e24790 joh. 3. 16. ezek. 18. & 33. 11. james 1. 5. acts 17. 26. 1 tim. 6. 5. 2 tim. 3. 13. jude 4. heb. 11. 3. 2 pet. 3. 5. 2 cor. 2. 17. colos . 2. 9. joh. 1. 9. joh. 1. 5. 2 cor. 4. joh. 8 12. john 12. 36. job 42. 14. job . 36. psal . 104. eccles . 12. isaiah 42 6. psal . 67. ezek. 11. 36 , 37. 37. 14. 1 thes . 5. isai . 29. jude 11. 1 sam. 19. job 27. john 4. 6. 33. john 8. 9. chap. john 17. 3. john john 12. john 2. acts 2. mal. 2. 15. colo. 1. 23. heb. 2. 1 joh. 2. 2. 1 cor. 2.