The svmme of a dispvtation betweene Mr. VValker, pastor of St. Iohn Euanglists [sic] in Watling-street London, and a popish priest calling himselfe Mr. Smith, but indeed Norrice assisted by other priests and papists : held in the presence of some worthy knights, with other gentlemen of both religions.
Walker, George, 1581?-1651.
1624
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A14657
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The svmme of a dispvtation betweene Mr. VValker, pastor of St. Iohn Euanglists [sic] in Watling-street London, and a popish priest calling himselfe Mr. Smith, but indeed Norrice assisted by other priests and papists : held in the presence of some worthy knights, with other gentlemen of both religions.
Walker, George, 1581?-1651.
S. N. (Sylvester Norris), 1572-1630.
[44] p.
Printed,
[London] :
1624.
Place of publication from STC (2nd ed.).
Signatures: A-E⁴, F².
Reproduction of original in: Union Theological Seminary (New York, N.Y.). Library.
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THE
SVMME
OF
A
DISPVTATION
,
BETWEENE
Mr.
VVALKER
Pastor
of
St.
Iohn
Euanglists
in
Watling-street
London
;
and
a
popish
Priest
,
calling
himselfe
Mr.
Smith
,
but
indeed
Norrice
,
assisted
by
other
Priests
and
Papists
.
HELD
IN
THE
PRESENCE
OF
some
worthy
Knights
;
with
other
Gentlemen
of
both
Religions
.
Printed
.
1624.
The
summe
of
a
Disputation
bebetweene
Mr.
Walker
,
Pastor
of
St
Iohn
Euangelists
in
Watling
street
in
London
:
And
a
popish
Priest
,
calling
himselfe
Mr.
Smith
,
but
indeed
Norrice
,
assisted
by
other
Priests
and
Papists
;
May
last
1623.
held
in
the
presence
of
some
worthy
Knights
,
with
other
Gentlemen
of
both
Religions
.
The
occasion
of
the
Disputation
.
SIr
William
Harington
Knight
,
hauing
a
Kinsman
of
the
Romish
Catholike
Religion
,
by
much
reasoning
with
him
,
and
many
perswasions
had
brought
him
to
wauering
,
so
that
he
stood
in
doubt
which
was
the
true
religion
,
and
desired
to
be
satisfied
.
The
forenamed
Priest
Mr.
Smith
alias
Dr.
Norrice
for
the
setling
and
hardening
of
him
in
the
popish
religion
,
told
him
that
the
Protestant
Church
of
England
vnto
which
he
seemed
to
incline
,
had
no
faith
,
neither
indeed
was
it
any
Church
of
Christ
at
all
:
and
also
challenged
his
kinsman
Sir
William
Harrington
to
bring
any
Minister
of
the
English
Church
whatsoeuer
into
any
conuenient
place
of
meeting
,
and
he
would
by
disputation
,
and
by
inuincible
arguments
proue
against
him
before
their
faces
,
and
in
their
hearing
,
that
English
Protestants
had
neither
Church
nor
faith
.
Sir
William
Harrington
did
take
his
offer
,
vpon
condition
that
he
would
answer
to
such
questions
as
the
Diuine
which
he
would
bring
should
propound
against
the
Romish
religion
;
it
was
agreed
;
the
day
and
place
appoynted
.
Whereupon
Sir
William
requesting
a
reuerend
Doctor
of
his
acquaintance
to
take
the
charge
vpon
him
;
hee
being
to
preach
in
his
charge
vpon
a
necessary
occasion
the
very
day
which
was
appointed
:
sent
him
to
Mr.
Walker
,
whom
he
assured
him
to
be
a
man
ready
for
such
a
purpose
,
And
who
at
the
first
motion
vpon
a
dayes
warning
embraced
the
offer
,
promised
to
come
the
next
day
to
Sir
William
,
and
to
attend
him
to
the
place
of
meeting
,
And
Sir
William
requesting
him
to
name
before
hand
some
questions
opposite
to
the
Romish
religion
which
hee
would
dispute
vpon
against
the
Priests
;
he
gaue
him
these
three
following
.
1.
That
the
present
Church
of
Rome
is
the
Whore
of
Babylon
.
2.
That
the
Pope
is
Antichrist
.
3.
That
the
Popish
doctrine
of
Peters
being
Bishop
of
Rome
is
a
forged
fable
contrary
to
the
Scriptures
.
These
positions
Sir
William
Harrington
sent
to
the
Priest
,
that
he
might
arme
himselfe
for
the
defence
:
The
next
day
Mr.
Walker
came
to
Sir
Williams
lodgings
to
dinner
,
and
accompanied
him
and
Sir
Edward
Harwood
,
with
some
other
Gentlemen
to
a
priuate
house
by
the
Thames
side
,
where
they
found
some
Romish
Catholike
Gentlemen
,
and
they
said
Smith
with
other
Priests
.
Before
they
entred
into
disputation
,
Mr.
Smith
alias
Norrice
,
called
Master
Walker
a
side
,
and
desired
that
the
disputation
might
be
performed
louingly
and
sweetly
with
all
mildenesse
,
and
without
bitter
words
or
byting
speeches
.
Mr.
Walker
answered
,
that
he
desired
to
byte
and
gall
no
aduersary
but
with
sound
reasons
,
which
do
most
commonly
cut
to
the
quicke
,
such
as
defend
errors
:
as
for
other
speeches
,
he
promised
for
his
part
to
be
milde
or
sharpe
,
according
to
the
behauiour
of
his
Aduersaries
.
And
thus
they
proceed
to
a
formall
manner
of
disputation
,
the
one
sitting
downe
at
the
one
end
of
a
Table
,
the
other
at
the
other
end
,
and
the
auditors
sitting
along
on
both
sides
,
and
some
standing
about
in
a
large
vpper
Parlor
,
But
first
Mr.
Walker
desired
a
Bible
▪
vnto
which
they
might
appeale
,
and
by
which
testimonies
of
Scriptures
;
which
both
parties
alleaged
might
bee
tried
;
whereupon
there
were
two
Bibles
brought
,
and
agreed
vpon
;
the
one
a
vulgar
Latine
,
which
the
Counsell
of
Trent
,
and
the
whole
Romish
Church
holds
to
be
most
authenticall
;
the
other
an
English
Bible
,
for
the
standers
by
to
looke
vpon
.
Then
Mr.
Smith
alias
Norrice
,
begins
first
with
an
apologie
for
himselfe
,
telling
the
gentlemen
that
he
had
of
late
by
reason
of
some
bodily
infirmity
,
beene
forced
to
take
Phisicke
,
and
to
vse
a
dyet
drinke
,
and
therefore
if
his
memory
should
faile
,
or
if
paine
in
his
head
should
force
him
to
breake
off
abruptly
,
desired
them
to
beare
with
him
,
and
to
haue
him
excused
;
By
which
he
seemed
wisely
to
prouide
before
hand
for
a
lesse
shamefull
flight
,
if
he
found
the
fight
too
hot
and
sharpe
for
him
to
be
endured
.
Mr.
Walker
on
the
other
side
desired
,
that
they
might
goe
to
it
hand
to
hand
,
and
but
one
speake
at
once
for
auoiding
of
confusion
;
that
the
disputation
might
be
in
short
syllogismes
:
and
desired
also
that
the
Arguments
&
the
answers
might
be
writ
downe
,
for
preuenting
all
false
relation
and
misreports
afterward
,
and
withall
,
did
put
it
to
the
Aduersaries
choyce
,
whether
he
would
oppose
or
answer
first
?
Mr.
Smith
desired
,
that
hee
might
first
dispute
vpon
his
owne
questions
,
and
promised
that
afterwards
he
would
answer
Mr.
Walker
,
disputing
vpon
his
questions
:
It
was
agreed
vpon
;
And
thereupon
he
putting
off
his
hat
,
and
crossing
his
face
and
breast
,
began
to
speake
to
Mr.
Walker
as
followeth
.
Mr.
Smith
,
alias
Norrice
.
Sir
,
I
haue
here
receiued
three
questions
from
you
,
which
you
haue
taken
vpon
you
to
proue
by
Argument
,
I
haue
here
written
downe
,
and
will
relate
them
vnto
you
:
First
you
say
you
will
proue
the
Pope
to
be
Antichrist
:
2.
The
Church
of
Rome
to
be
the
whore
of
Babylon
:
3.
That
St.
Peter
was
not
Bishop
of
Rome
as
we
hold
;
These
questions
are
such
as
are
not
fit
to
be
named
,
much
lesse
to
be
disputed
or
answered
;
they
are
deliuered
in
tearmes
very
vnseemely
and
vnmannerly
:
for
what
can
be
more
vnfit
or
vnseemly
then
this
,
that
you
should
call
the
holy
Father
the
Pope
Antichrist
,
and
the
Church
of
Rome
the
whore
of
Babylon
now
in
these
dayes
,
when
it
pleaseth
the
Kings
Maiestie
to
giue
the
Pope
that
honour
,
as
to
send
and
sue
to
his
holinesse
for
a
dispensation
for
the
marriage
of
thr
Prince
his
sonne
:
I
pray
you
therefore
let
vs
haue
no
more
of
these
questions
,
but
let
vs
haue
some
other
,
or
else
propound
them
in
other
tearmes
,
as
that
the
Church
of
Rome
is
not
the
true
Church
or
the
like
:
As
you
see
I
haue
done
,
in
that
I
haue
vsed
milder
words
in
my
questions
:
holding
that
you
protestants
in
England
,
haue
no
Church
nor
faith
.
Mr.
Walker
.
Seeing
it
is
your
pleasure
thus
to
speake
at
large
in
loose
speech
,
and
not
in
strict
Syllogisme
,
I
will
answer
you
in
your
kinde
.
First
,
I
maruell
that
you
are
not
ashamed
to
slaunder
the
Kings
Maiestie
with
honouring
of
the
Pope
,
by
suing
to
him
for
dispensation
,
which
we
all
know
he
will
neuer
doe
;
because
he
hath
not
onely
said
,
that
he
is
Antichrist
,
but
also
publikely
in
his
learned
writings
proued
him
so
to
be
,
and
the
Romish
Church
to
be
the
whore
of
Babylon
.
I
warrant
you
our
King
will
marry
his
Son
and
aske
the
Pope
no
leaue
,
if
the
other
party
will
aduenture
it
as
well
as
he
.
It
is
most
intollerable
,
that
you
should
so
boldly
slaunder
his
Maiestie
.
Secondly
,
for
the
tearmes
of
my
questions
,
which
you
call
vnmannerly
,
they
are
the
same
which
it
pleaseth
Gods
spirit
to
vse
in
the
holy
Scriptures
;
and
his
holinesse
hath
in
his
wisedome
been
pleased
to
stile
the
Pope
and
Church
of
Rome
by
the
same
titles
,
as
I
shall
quickly
proue
,
if
you
will
vndertake
to
answer
me
.
And
therefore
you
are
too
bold
to
taxe
Gods
spirit
of
vnmannerlinesse
:
But
perhaps
this
is
a
shift
of
yours
,
to
put
off
our
disputation
vpon
these
poynts
which
pay
you
home
,
with
a
cleanely
excuse
of
vnmannerly
tearmes
:
yet
it
shall
not
serue
your
turne
;
for
the
more
vnseemly
that
the
questions
are
,
the
more
disgrace
it
will
be
to
me
,
and
the
more
hard
taske
to
proue
them
:
and
to
you
it
will
be
more
credit
and
ease
to
defend
the
contrary
,
so
that
this
is
no
excuse
for
you
at
all
.
Thirdly
,
in
that
you
doe
charge
vs
here
at
home
so
manifestly
contrary
to
common
sense
,
that
we
haue
neither
Church
nor
Faith
,
when
as
we
beleeue
and
professe
all
holy
truthes
taught
in
the
holy
Scriptures
,
which
by
your selues
cannot
be
denyed
to
be
Gods
infallible
word
.
But
I
pray
you
let
vs
leaue
all
loose
and
idle
discourses
,
and
come
to
a
strict
forme
of
Disputation
,
writing
downe
the
Arguments
and
answers
which
doe
passe
betweene
vs.
Your
taske
which
you
haue
vndertaken
is
to
proue
,
that
we
haue
no
Church
nor
Faith
:
let
vs
heare
your
arguments
briefly
.
Mr.
Smith
.
Well
,
that
we
may
come
quickly
and
closely
come
home
to
the
matter
,
let
me
aske
you
a
question
,
and
doe
you
answer
me
,
that
I
may
ground
my
Arguments
vpon
your
owne
words
,
and
I
shall
quickly
proue
against
you
my
assertion
,
and
make
the
truth
of
it
plainely
appeare
.
First
I
aske
whether
the
true
Catholike
Church
be
visible
?
M.
Walker
.
The
true
Catholike
Church
is
not
visible
,
neither
can
it
be
seene
with
eyes
of
any
mortall
man
on
earth
.
M.
Smith
.
Marke
Gentlemen
,
he
will
deny
this
Canon
:
he
saith
the
Catholike
Church
is
not
visible
,
which
I
will
proue
to
be
against
all
reason
.
Mr.
Walker
.
Indeed
if
I
should
say
that
it
were
visible
,
considering
it
as
it
now
is
,
I
should
speake
against
all
reason
;
For
the
greatest
part
of
it
being
Saints
in
heauen
are
without
the
reach
of
mans
eyes
,
and
cannot
be
seene
.
Mr.
Smith
.
You
doe
but
equiuocate
of
purpose
to
decline
all
Disputation
;
you
know
that
I
meane
,
not
the
Church
triumphant
in
heauen
,
but
the
Catholike
Church
militant
on
earth
.
Mr.
Walker
.
Nay
,
rather
doe
you
equiuocate
or
worse
;
for
to
say
that
the
Catholike
Church
is
militant
on
earth
is
as
absurd
,
as
to
say
that
all
mankinde
,
euen
the
whole
vniuersall
race
of
Adam
are
now
liuing
on
earth
,
when
reason
and
experience
teach
vs
,
that
the
greatest
part
are
dead
,
and
many
also
yet
vnborne
:
I
hope
you
know
that
the
word
Catholike
,
signifies
vniuersall
:
and
therefore
the
Catholike
Church
is
vniuersall
company
of
the
Elect
and
faithfull
,
and
includes
in
it
euery
one
whosoeuer
hath
beene
,
or
is
,
or
shall
be
hereafter
a
true
beleeuing
member
of
Christ
,
and
a●l
they
cannot
bee
seene
at
once
on
earth
,
because
they
neuer
were
altogether
on
earth
.
The
militant
number
of
them
on
earth
,
are
the
least
part
of
them
.
Mr.
Smith
.
You
doe
wrangle
to
auoyde
D●sputation
;
I
therefore
tell
you
;
that
by
the
Catholi●e
militant
Church
,
I
vnderstand
the
true
Church
of
Iesus
Christ
,
which
all
true
Christians
here
on
earth
ought
to
heare
and
obey
,
as
it
is
the
pillar
and
ground
of
tru●h
:
now
answer
whether
you
hold
that
to
be
visible
or
inuisible
?
M.
Walker
.
I
iudge
of
your
meaning
by
your
words
,
and
therefore
I
cannot
conceiue
this
Church
which
you
doe
speake
of
,
to
be
the
Catholike
,
that
is
the
vniuersall
Church
:
for
euery
true
particular
Church
,
in
which
euery
true
Christian
doth
loue
,
and
whereof
he
is
a
member
,
is
that
which
he
ought
to
heare
and
to
obey
,
because
by
reason
of
the
faithfull
and
elect
which
are
in
it
,
it
is
the
house
of
God
,
and
the
pillar
and
firmament
of
truth
.
Now
euery
such
Church
is
partly
visible
,
and
partly
inuisible
.
M.
Smith
.
How
is
it
visible
,
and
how
is
it
inuisible
?
Mr.
Walker
.
Euery
such
true
Church
hath
in
it
elect
and
faithfull
men
,
professing
outwardly
in
word
,
and
practise
true
Christian
religion
,
who
doe
belong
to
the
Catholike
Church
,
and
are
true
liuely
members
of
Christ
:
It
hath
also
some
hypocrites
and
carnall
professors
,
which
doe
also
make
an
outward
show
and
profession
of
christianity
,
but
are
not
truely
ingraffed
into
Christ
,
by
vnion
and
communion
of
the
Spirit
,
neither
haue
the
true
holy
sauing
Faith
,
and
by
consequent
are
not
members
of
the
true
Catholike
Church
.
Now
the
men
who
professe
religion
in
the
Church
,
and
are
the
members
of
it
,
if
we
consider
them
as
they
are
men
,
and
as
they
practise
and
performe
outward
duties
of
christians
,
as
preaching
and
hearing
of
the
word
,
administring
and
receiuing
the
Sacraments
publike
outward
worship
and
such
like
,
they
are
visible
:
But
as
for
the
election
faith
,
spirituall
,
and
in
word
graces
and
deuotion
in
the
one
sort
,
by
which
they
are
indeed
true
christians
,
&
belong
to
the
Catholike
Church
:
and
the
hipocrisie
and
carnall
corruption
lurking
inwardly
in
the
other
sort
,
by
meanes
whereof
,
they
are
seperated
from
communion
with
Christ
in
spirit
,
they
are
things
inuisible
,
and
to
be
discerned
spiritually
,
not
with
bodily
eyes
.
Thus
euery
true
Church
is
partly
inuisible
,
to
wit
,
in
respect
of
the
spirituall
graces
,
which
make
men
true
Christians
indeed
;
and
partly
visible
,
to
wit
,
in
respect
of
the
outward
profession
,
common
both
to
elect
and
reprobates
,
to
faithfull
men
and
hypocrites
.
Mr.
Smith
.
No
sooner
was
the
answer
giuen
but
Mr.
Smith
as
one
full
of
anger
,
protested
with
vehemency
of
words
,
that
now
he
saw
indeed
,
there
was
neither
Church
nor
Faith
among
Protestants
;
they
were
all
so
contrary
among
themselues
,
neuer
agreeing
together
in
any
opinion
:
He
affirmed
to
the
standers
by
,
that
Doctor
Whitakers
,
Doctor
Reignolds
,
Mr.
Perkins
,
and
many
other
chiefe
Protestants
did
euer
grant
,
that
the
true
Catholike
Church
was
visible
.
Another
Priest
sitting
by
,
scornefully
repeated
the
name
of
Perkins
,
and
spake
of
him
as
of
a
poore
silly
man
,
not
worthy
to
be
counted
among
the
learned
.
Mr.
Walker
.
Mr
Walker
moued
with
the
falshood
of
the
one
,
and
the
scorne
of
the
other
,
first
answered
the
scorner
,
that
none
could
count
Mr.
Perkins
silly
and
vnlearned
,
but
either
out
of
ignorance
or
wilfull
mallice
:
and
that
he
knew
it
to
be
the
fashion
of
popish
Priests
,
outwardly
to
sleight
&
vilifie
before
the
people
,
such
as
do
most
cut
and
gall
them
.
To
Mr.
Smith
he
answered
,
that
if
he
would
grant
that
Protestants
haue
a
true
Church
,
and
the
true
faith
,
as
truely
as
that
which
he
affirmed
of
Doctor
Whitakers
and
the
rest
was
false
,
he
would
desire
no
more
for
the
victorie
:
Yea
(
saith
hee
)
if
you
haue
read
Doctor
Whitakers
,
you
know
that
he
holds
as
I
doe
;
and
that
you
wilfully
and
falsely
father
on
him
things
vntrue
.
Mr.
Smith
.
Mr.
Smith
enraged
with
this
answer
,
protested
what
he
had
said
was
true
,
and
the
more
to
perswade
the
standers
by
,
he
added
more
specially
,
that
Doctor
Whitakers
doth
in
his
writings
maintaine
,
that
the
whole
essence
of
the
true
Church
,
consists
onely
in
the
true
preaching
of
the
word
,
and
the
right
administration
of
the
Sacraments
which
are
things
visible
.
Mr.
Walker
.
Sir
I
doe
not
loue
to
contend
by
oathes
and
protestations
,
but
by
proofes
.
I
will
here
write
downe
your
wordes
(
which
he
did
,
and
read
them
in
the
hearing
of
all
,
and
asked
if
hee
had
not
truly
written
?
and
all
assented
he
had
:
Then
hee
proceeded
thus
.
)
I
doubt
not
sir
,
but
you
haue
learned
Logick
,
and
doe
knowe
that
the
definition
of
a
thing
doth
expresse
the
whole
essence
,
and
that
what
a
man
defines
a
thing
to
be
,
that
he
holds
to
be
the
essence
of
it
:
Tell
me
here
doe
you
not
grant
this
?
Mr.
Smith
.
I
doe
.
Mr.
Walker
.
Well
then
,
it
must
be
granted
,
that
Doctor
Whitaker
doth
hold
that
to
be
the
essence
of
the
Church
which
he
doth
comprehend
in
the
definition
of
the
Church
.
Now
his
definition
of
the
Church
is
Coelus
electorum
&
fid●lum
,
A
company
of
elect
and
faithfull
men
,
and
he
proues
against
Bellarmine
,
that
none
can
be
seene
with
the
eye
to
be
members
of
the
Catholike
Church
,
because
the
elect
onely
faithfull
and
godly
,
belong
to
it
,
whose
graces
are
inuisible
,
and
not
hypocrites
and
reprobates
,
as
Bellarmine
doth
hold
.
Dare
you
deny
this
?
Mr.
Smith
.
I
am
sure
he
holds
as
I
said
before
,
that
the
whole
essence
of
the
Church
consists
in
true
preaching
of
Gods
word
,
and
in
administration
of
the
Sacraments
.
Mr.
Walker
.
Because
I
will
not
spend
time
in
contesting
with
you
;
let
this
be
the
issue
before
these
Gentlemen
:
let
vs
send
for
Doctor
Whitakers
workes
,
and
if
I
doe
not
shew
that
he
doth
proue
against
Bellarmine
,
that
the
Catholike
Church
is
inuisible
,
and
that
this
is
a
maine
point
largely
disputed
by
him
,
and
a
maine
controuersie
betweene
him
and
Bellarmine
,
let
mee
be
branded
with
the
marke
of
a
wilfull
lyer
,
impostore
and
false
prophet
.
But
if
I
shew
it
presently
before
them
all
out
of
his
owne
writings
,
then
shall
you
confesse
your selfe
a
forger
and
falsifier
,
an
impostor
,
and
a
priest
of
Baal
;
The
Gentlemen
all
confessed
that
this
was
faire
play
,
and
desired
it
might
bee
so
.
Whereupon
Mr.
Smith
began
to
draw
backe
,
and
shewed
himselfe
vnwilling
,
and
much
affraid
to
hazard
his
credit
so
quickly
,
and
would
gladly
haue
left
this
point
,
and
fallen
into
another
,
But
Mr.
Walker
proceeded
on
this
wise
and
said
:
Gentlemen
it
is
true
,
that
Doctor
Whitakers
maintaines
,
that
the
Word
truly
preached
,
and
the
Sacraments
rightly
administred
,
are
the
certaine
and
infallible
notes
and
markes
,
by
which
euery
true
particular
Church
may
be
discerned
to
bee
Christs
true
church
:
and
you
know
that
the
markes
of
a
thing
differ
from
the
essence
and
substance
of
it
:
as
the
signe
hanging
at
the
dore
of
a
Tauerne
,
and
shewing
that
house
to
be
a
Tauerne
,
differs
from
the
Tauerne
it selfe
:
and
the
habit
and
Cowle
of
a
Monke
or
Frier
,
which
is
the
marke
of
his
order
,
differs
from
the
Monke
himselfe
,
and
is
not
any
part
of
his
essence
.
I
beseech
you
therefore
take
notice
of
the
boldnesse
and
impudency
of
popish
Priests
,
how
they
can
snatch
here
and
there
a
speech
out
of
our
learned
mens
writings
,
without
any
vnderstanding
of
it
,
and
thereby
make
show
,
as
if
they
had
throughly
read
those
Authors
;
yea
,
and
can
in
common
talke
,
and
in
titles
of
their
printed
pamphlets
professe
,
that
they
haue
confuted
Whitakers
,
Reignolds
,
Field
,
Perkins
,
and
many
others
,
whose
bookes
they
neuer
durst
reade
throughly
,
neither
haue
the
hardinesse
to
sift
any
of
their
maine
arguments
.
I
assure
you
,
that
as
you
see
this
which
I
say
here
verefied
,
so
I
finde
it
a
common
thing
among
them
all
.
Mr.
Smith
.
Mr.
Smith
and
all
his
company
on
his
side
were
very
vnwilling
to
insist
any
longer
vpon
this
point
,
&
therfore
answered
nothing
;
but
presently
proceeded
to
another
question
,
and
asked
Mr.
Walker
Whether
the
whole
militant
Church
on
earth
may
erre
?
Mr.
Walker
.
I
answer
,
that
this
question
is
captious
and
ambiguous
,
and
cannot
directly
in
one
word
negatiue
or
affirmatiue
bee
answered
:
my
reasons
are
these
;
First
,
because
the
whole
militant
Church
,
if
such
a
Church
may
be
acknowledged
,
is
nothing
but
the
whole
number
of
particular
Churches
militant
on
earth
;
and
in
diuers
points
they
doe
differ
among
themselues
:
and
it
is
impossible
for
any
man
to
finde
out
the
iudgement
of
them
all
in
euery
point
,
as
it
is
impossible
to
gather
them
all
at
once
into
one
place
.
Secondly
,
it
may
bee
said
both
that
it
may
erre
,
and
also
that
it
cannot
erre
in
diuers
respects
and
considerations
,
if
wee
consider
it
by
it selfe
alone
,
as
it
is
militant
,
and
according
to
the
militancy
and
weaknesse
of
it
(
as
I
may
so
speake
)
we
grant
that
it
may
erre
,
and
in
euery
particular
part
of
it
,
there
may
bee
found
some
errors
:
but
if
we
consider
it
according
vnto
the
relation
and
dependance
which
it
hath
vpon
the
Triumphant
Church
,
and
the
assistance
which
it
hath
from
Christ
,
his
Prophets
and
Apostles
,
vpon
whose
doctrine
and
Scriptures
it
doth
wholly
cast
it selfe
,
and
builds
all
the
doctrines
of
faith
,
,
so
it
cannot
erre
,
for
in
so
doing
it
doth
follow
infallible
guides
:
euen
as
the
Apostle
saith
of
a
man
regenerate
and
borne
of
God
,
that
he
cannot
sinne
,
1
Ioh.
3.
to
wit
,
in
the
maine
,
against
the
maine
precepts
of
the
Gospell
,
Beleeue
and
Repent
,
for
he
cannot
fall
into
impenitency
and
infidelity
,
because
the
seede
of
God
,
euen
his
holy
Spirit
abides
in
him
:
But
that
he
hath
sinne
,
and
doth
lie
if
he
saith
he
hath
none
,
to
wit
,
through
infirmity
and
weakenesse
of
the
flesh
:
So
likewise
it
is
truely
said
of
the
true
Church
,
and
euery
part
thereof
,
that
as
it
builds
onely
on
the
Scriptures
,
and
doth
vrge
no
doctrine
of
faith
of
necessity
to
be
beleeued
,
but
such
as
the
Scriptures
teach
:
So
it
cannot
erre
no
more
then
the
Scripture
,
for
this
is
a
work
of
infallible
faith
.
But
because
all
men
liuing
in
the
Church
;
haue
as
infirmities
of
life
,
so
imperfections
in
iudgement
,
and
some
peruersnesse
in
affections
,
and
therefore
may
faile
in
conceiuing
some
doubtfull
and
obscure
places
of
Scripture
amisse
,
or
in
cleauing
not
so
close
to
the
word
as
they
ought
,
or
following
their
owne
affections
to
much
,
as
we
see
in
all
the
writings
of
the
Fathers
,
and
in
the
most
part
of
the
generall
Councells
,
in
this
respect
we
truly
say
,
that
the
Church
militant
may
erre
.
Mr.
Smith
.
You
doe
what
you
can
to
keepe
off
,
and
not
to
come
to
the
point
;
but
I
will
bring
you
to
it
doe
what
you
can
if
you
will
answer
me
this
question
.
Whether
the
who●e
militant
Church
of
England
may
erre
?
Mr.
Walker
.
I
answer
to
this
as
before
,
that
it
is
a
captious
and
ambiguous
confused
question
,
and
that
this
militant
Church
as
the
rest
may
erre
and
not
erre
,
according
to
the
former
diuers
respects
and
considerations
.
Mr.
Smith
.
Whether
is
the
Church
of
England
so
tyed
to
the
word
of
God
,
and
such
helps
,
that
it
cannot
erre
nor
misinterpret
the
Scriptures
in
fundamentall
points
of
Faith
?
Mr.
Walker
.
I
answer
,
that
as
in
all
other
particular
Churches
so
in
the
particular
Churches
of
England
,
there
is
a
double
voice
,
one
of
the
Church
,
as
shee
is
the
true
Church
of
Christ
,
and
that
is
both
her
voice
commending
the
Scriptures
,
onely
to
bee
beleeued
as
necessary
for
sauing
knowledge
and
true
faith
,
and
also
the
voice
of
GOD
plainely
speaking
in
the
Scriptures
,
in
this
respect
she
is
so
tyed
that
shee
cannot
erre
.
There
is
another
voice
which
the
Church
vttereth
not
immediately
from
her selfe
,
by
the
Commission
which
Christ
gaue
vnto
her
;
but
by
her
fraile
members
,
suppose
a
Synode
and
assembly
of
Pastors
taking
vpon
them
to
determine
things
doubtfull
out
of
obscure
places
of
Scripture
,
and
to
make
them
more
plaine
then
the
Scriptures
doe
vpon
which
they
build
;
This
voyce
may
erre
,
and
by
it
the
Church
may
be
said
after
a
sort
to
erre
in
some
part
,
though
not
wholly
,
nor
finally
,
nor
obstinately
:
because
if
it
bee
a
true
Church
,
it
will
not
absolutely
and
peremptorily
determine
that
which
the
Scriptures
leaue
doubtfull
:
neither
will
it
persist
alwayes
in
the
errors
if
they
be
deadly
,
but
either
the
whole
number
,
or
at
least
some
in
the
number
of
the
Church
will
renounce
it
;
and
so
the
whole
shall
not
erre
finally
.
This
is
my
answer
;
But
because
I
would
giue
you
some
ground
whereon
to
fasten
,
that
we
may
not
spend
time
in
questions
,
but
may
come
to
disputation
,
which
is
the
intent
of
our
meeting
;
I
will
grant
you
thus
much
,
that
the
Church
of
England
may
erre
for
a
time
,
and
after
some
manner
in
a
point
fundamentall
or
necessary
to
saluation
.
Ground
what
you
can
vpon
this
,
and
let
vs
haue
some
disputation
by
way
of
strict
Arguments
and
Syllogismes
.
Mr.
Smith
I
haue
enough
out
of
your
owne
confession
to
proue
that
you
haue
neither
Church
nor
Faith.
And
I
pray
you
Gentlemen
to
marke
and
take
notice
,
he
grants
that
the
Protestant
Church
of
England
may
erre
in
a
fundamentall
point
,
if
in
one
,
then
as
well
in
another
,
and
so
from
one
to
another
till
it
erre
in
all
,
and
so
haue
no
faith
at
all
,
and
hauing
no
faith
it
is
no
Church
.
Thus
you
see
I
haue
proued
that
Protestants
haue
neither
church
nor
Faith
:
and
therefore
I
beseech
you
all
take
heede
of
them
,
who
by
their
owne
confession
haue
forsaken
the
Catholicke
Church
and
faith
,
and
doe
wilfull
runne
into
all
damnable
errors
and
heresies
,
and
lead
men
into
destrustion
.
You
see
how
plainely
they
are
conuinced
;
and
I
appeale
to
you
all
,
Iudge
whether
I
haue
not
plainely
proued
that
which
I
did
vnder
take
,
to
wit
,
that
they
haue
neither
Church
nor
Faith
,
and
so
are
in
a
most
damnable
estate
.
Mr.
Walker
.
To
these
words
vttered
,
with
great
vehemency
and
action
of
the
hands
and
whole
body
,
Mr.
Walker
standing
vp
,
and
putting
of
his
Hat
made
this
reply
:
First
(
saith
hee
)
though
it
was
your
motion
,
and
my
desire
that
I
might
talke
mildly
without
bitter
words
:
yet
seeing
hee
first
breakes
out
so
vnreasonably
,
and
goe
about
by
bitter
and
reproachfull
words
and
gestures
to
beare
downe
the
truth
:
I
must
craue
leaue
of
these
Gentlemen
to
answer
you
in
your
kinde
,
though
it
be
very
vnseemly
that
in
my
manner
of
answer
,
you
may
behold
the
vnseemlynesse
of
your
disputing
:
and
then
with
like
words
,
voice
,
and
gestures
,
he
answered
to
this
effect
:
First
,
where
as
you
say
that
you
haue
proued
,
that
which
you
did
vndertake
▪
you
shew
your selfe
without
wit
or
reason
:
for
you
are
not
able
to
bring
one
word
of
reason
by
way
of
argument
,
till
I
doe
lay
you
a
ground
,
as
all
here
doe
see
;
and
therefore
if
you
seeme
to
proue
any
thing
,
you
must
thanke
me
for
it
,
who
doe
yeeld
more
then
you
can
proue
:
Secondly
,
your
argument
is
without
all
forme
,
order
,
or
reason
;
for
it
doth
not
follow
,
that
euery
Church
which
may
erre
in
one
point
,
may
erre
in
all
points
at
once
,
and
fall
wholly
away
,
because
God
hath
promised
,
that
the
gates
of
Hell
shall
not
preuaile
against
his
Church
so
farre
as
to
put
it
quite
from
the
foundation
,
though
it
may
Build
stubble
and
straw
vpon
the
foundation
,
by
erring
in
some
points
for
a
time
.
Thirdly
,
though
it
bee
not
impossible
for
the
true
Church
to
erre
yea
though
it
were
granted
that
it
might
wholly
fall
away
from
all
faith
:
yet
it
doth
not
there
vpon
follow
that
it
doth
so
,
and
that
now
presently
it
hath
no
faith
,
neither
is
a
Church
at
all
:
Thus
Gentlemen
you
see
how
I
haue
proued
this
man
by
his
owne
speech
to
bee
without
wit
,
reason
modesty
or
honesty
,
roauing
without
wit
or
reason
,
railing
without
modesty
,
and
falsly
charging
vs
against
all
shew
of
honesty
:
But
I
feare
me
that
this
kind
of
Frier-like
preaching
,
is
odious
and
distastfull
to
all
iudicious
beholders
:
I
pray
you
let
vs
dispute
orderly
,
and
according
to
art
:
And
if
you
be
able
to
dispute
Scholler-like
,
let
vs
haue
one
argument
framed
into
a
short
Syllogisme
.
Mr.
Smith
.
I
warrant
you
I
can
make
Syllogismes
to
your
small
comfort
.
Mr.
Walker
And
I
doubt
not
but
I
shall
as
easily
answer
them
to
your
small
ease
.
Mr.
Smith
.
Then
he
with
much
adoe
vttered
this
Syllogisme
,
and
caused
it
to
be
written
downe
.
That
Church
which
hath
not
the
word
of
God
truely
preached
,
and
infallibly
deliuered
vnto
it
,
is
not
the
true
Church
of
Christ
:
But
the
Protestant
Church
is
such
,
Ergo.
Mr.
Walker
.
I
distinguish
vpon
the
Maior
proposition
:
For
if
you
meane
the
word
truly
preached
,
and
infallibly
deliuered
in
euery
particular
point
,
so
that
it
can
neuer
erre
any
manner
of
way
in
any
such
point
.
I
denie
the
Maior
vpon
example
and
warrant
from
the
Apostles
:
and
doe
hold
that
a
true
Church
may
for
a
time
haue
the
word
not
truly
deliuered
,
and
infallibly
in
some
point
,
and
yet
be
a
true
Church
:
But
if
you
vnderstand
a
totall
erring
in
all
points
,
and
a
preaching
of
the
whole
word
vntruly
:
then
is
your
Minor
most
false
,
for
Protestant
Churches
doe
not
preach
the
whole
word
vntruly
at
any
time
.
Now
proue
you
which
of
your
propositions
you
please
:
For
in
these
senses
which
I
haue
named
both
are
false
.
Mr.
Smith
.
The
Maior
is
so
manifest
that
it
needs
no
proofe
,
neither
can
be
denyed
,
for
how
is
it
possible
for
any
Church
to
be
a
true
Church
which
hath
not
the
word
truly
preached
in
all
points
.
Mr.
Walker
.
It
is
to
mee
a
manifest
vntruth
,
and
therefore
proue
it
true
if
you
can
;
if
you
cannot
,
then
yeeld
the
cause
,
that
is
false
.
Mr.
Smith
.
I
proue
it
thus
.
That
Church
which
hath
not
the
word
of
God
truly
preached
,
but
falsely
translated
,
is
no
true
Church
.
Such
is
the
Church
of
England
.
Ergo.
Mr.
Walker
.
This
is
no
proofe
of
that
proposition
which
I
denyed
,
and
which
you
did
vndertake
to
proue
,
and
therefore
you
shew
your selfe
ignorant
in
disputing
and
doe
commit
that
fallacy
against
the
rules
of
Logicke
which
wee
call
Ignorationem
elenchi
.
Mr.
Smith
It
is
a
true
Syllogisme
,
and
proues
the
maine
matter
in
controuersie
,
to
wit
,
that
you
haue
no
true
Church
.
Mr.
Walker
But
the
thing
which
you
were
to
proue
,
was
that
the
Church
which
hath
not
Gods
word
truly
preached
,
and
infallibly
deliuered
in
euery
point
at
all
times
,
is
not
a
true
Church
.
This
because
you
cannot
tell
how
to
proue
as
you
did
vndertake
,
therefore
you
flee
to
another
new
Argument
,
to
which
also
I
doe
answer
,
as
I
did
to
the
former
:
First
,
that
the
Maior
proposition
is
false
:
For
a
Church
which
hath
the
word
of
God
falsely
or
erroneously
translated
in
some
parts
,
and
so
not
truely
preached
in
euery
part
,
may
be
a
true
Church
.
Secondly
,
if
you
meane
falsely
translated
,
and
not
truely
preached
of
purpose
and
wilfully
,
then
the
Minor
is
false
,
for
though
the
translation
of
the
Church
of
England
may
faile
and
misse
of
the
true
meaning
of
diuers
places
,
(
as
all
the
best
translations
,
especially
the
vulgar
Latine
approued
by
the
Romish
Church
doth
,
)
yet
it
is
not
so
erroneously
translated
of
purpose
,
neither
doe
all
the
Preachers
thereof
build
,
certainly
on
such
erronious
and
false
translations
,
but
many
doe
discerne
them
,
and
preach
and
teach
the
true
oppositions
;
and
the
Church
alloweth
them
so
to
doe
,
when
they
shew
good
reasons
for
their
doings
,
from
the
circumstances
of
the
Text.
Mr.
Smith
.
But
I
will
shew
plainly
by
diuers
Examples
,
that
you
haue
diuers
places
of
Scripture
falsly
translated
in
your
translation
of
set
purpose
,
and
wilfully
contrary
to
the
words
of
the
Hebrew
Text
,
contrary
also
to
the
Greeke
and
Latine
,
receiued
in
all
ages
and
Churches
heertofore
.
Mr.
Walker
.
You
threaten
largely
in
wordes
which
are
but
winde
;
but
indeede
you
can
neuer
performe
that
which
you
say
.
Let
vs
see
if
you
bee
able
to
shew
any
part
of
our
translation
,
wherein
one
word
is
falsely
translated
of
purpose
:
I
desire
no
more
but
to
ioyne
a
Combat
with
you
hand
to
hand
about
the
Hebrew
text
,
and
about
the
truth
of
our
translation
,
and
the
agreement
of
it
with
the
Originall
.
Mr.
Smith
.
I
shall
quickly
proue
what
I
say
,
and
what
you
require
.
First
,
I
haue
a
plaine
example
,
Malachi
2.
7.
where
your
translators
read
the
words
thus
,
The
Priests
lippes
should
keepe
knowledge
,
and
they
should
seeke
the
Law
at
his
mouth
.
First
this
translation
is
false
,
because
it
is
contrary
to
the
Hebrew
text
,
wherein
the
words
are
Iishmeru
they
shall
keepe
,
and
Iebakshu
they
shall
seek
:
and
not
,
they
should
keepe
,
nor
,
they
should
seeke
.
Also
it
is
contrary
to
the
Greeke
,
wherein
the
words
are
,
〈◊〉
〈◊〉
〈◊〉
〈◊〉
〈◊〉
and
〈◊〉
〈◊〉
〈◊〉
〈◊〉
〈◊〉
,
and
to
the
Latine
translation
of
St.
Hierome
,
which
is
Custodient
,
and
requirent
.
Secondly
,
it
teacheth
heresie
and
false
doctrine
,
namely
;
that
Gods
Priests
,
&
they
who
sit
in
Moses
Chayre
,
may
erre
,
contrary
to
the
words
of
Christ
who
commands
his
Disciples
to
heare
all
such
as
sit
in
Moses
Chayre
,
because
they
shall
not
erre
,
but
their
lips
shall
preserue
knowledge
.
Thirdly
,
it
is
thus
corrupted
of
purpose
,
to
gainsay
the
infallibility
of
the
Pastors
of
the
Church
,
who
doe
succeed
in
the
Chayre
of
the
Apostles
,
and
to
blinde
the
peoples
eyes
,
that
they
may
not
see
the
certainty
and
infallibility
of
iudgement
in
the
Priests
and
Pastors
who
sit
in
Moses
Chaire
,
&
how
they
are
bound
to
seek
the
Law
at
their
mouth
:
but
may
follow
any
vpstart
teachers
which
separate
from
the
Catholicke
Church
.
Thus
you
see
Gentlemen
all
,
how
plainely
I
haue
proued
that
the
Church
of
England
hath
of
purpose
corrupted
the
Scriptures
,
and
therefore
is
no
true
Church
.
Mr.
Walker
.
Indeed
if
that
which
you
say
were
true
,
you
did
speake
something
to
the
purpose
;
but
great
words
and
protestations
cannot
make
truth
to
be
falshood
,
nor
falshood
truth
,
as
for
the
Example
which
you
cite
out
of
our
English
translation
.
Mal.
2.
7.
I
deny
it
to
be
contrary
to
the
Hebrew
text
:
yea
I
will
easily
proue
both
from
the
Hebrew
words
,
which
you
haue
here
shewed
in
the
Hebrew
Interlinear
Bible
,
and
also
from
the
whole
scope
,
and
all
circumstances
of
the
place
,
that
the
English
is
the
best
translation
,
&
more
perfect
then
either
the
Greek
or
Latine
.
First
,
though
the
Hebrew
words
Iishmeru
&
Iebakshu
be
of
the
Futuretense
,
yet
this
doth
not
proue
:
that
they
should
be
translated
so
in
our
tongue
,
because
you
cannot
but
know
,
if
you
haue
any
skill
in
the
Hebrew
tongue
,
that
the
future
tense
in
Hebrewe
,
sometime
simply
,
and
sometime
by
meanes
of
Vau
conuersiue
signifies
time
,
either
perfectly
or
imperfectly
past
;
somtimes
it
stands
for
the
Optatiue
,
Potentiall
,
and
Subiunctiue
moode
;
therefore
our
translation
is
not
differēt
,
nor
irregular
from
the
Hebrewe
,
which
is
the
originall
.
Secondly
,
it
was
neuer
the
purpose
of
Gods
spirit
in
that
place
,
or
by
these
words
to
teach
,
that
the
Lawe
should
alwayes
bee
taught
truly
and
infallibly
by
the
Priests
and
Pastors
who
succeede
Moses
,
or
the
Apostles
locally
in
the
Church
by
a
continued
succession
:
for
that
is
a
falshood
contrary
to
the
experience
of
all
ages
:
this
very
place
confutes
it
most
euidently
;
For
the
Priests
vnto
whome
the
Prophet
here
speaks
in
these
places
were
Leuites
,
and
succeeded
Aaron
in
the
Priesthood
:
and
yet
they
were
departed
out
of
the
way
they
caused
many
to
fall
in
the
law
by
their
corrupt
glosse
,
and
their
abuse
of
the
Couenant
of
Leui.
As
it
appeares
in
the
next
words
immediately
following
:
yea
some
of
them
had
sacrificed
to
Idolls
,
as
Iosephus
shewes
in
his
History
of
those
times
,
and
therfore
the
Lord
threatens
to
corrupt
their
seed
by
cutting
off
the
male
progeny
,
and
to
cast
the
dung
of
their
Sacrifice
in
their
faces
:
so
that
the
Priesthood
of
Phineas
should
by
a
sister
married
into
the
Tribe
of
Iudath
to
one
of
Dauids
line
fall
to
Christ
,
who
desended
of
her
,
and
hee
should
take
it
away
to
himselfe
for
euer
as
is
intimated
in
the
3.
verse
of
the
same
Chapter
.
So
then
it
is
no
heresie
but
Gods
holy
truth
,
that
Priests
succeeding
in
the
place
and
office
of
Aaron
and
Moses
may
erre
and
haue
erred
:
Moset
his
Chaire
in
which
the
Scribes
and
Pharisies
did
sit
,
was
the
seat
wherein
they
were
wont
to
read
the
Law
of
Moses
,
and
the
expositions
of
the
Prophets
to
the
people
,
and
therfore
what
they
there
did
teach
was
true
,
and
Christ
commanded
his
Disciples
to
obey
it
:
But
in
their
owne
glosses
and
traditions
they
erred
damnably
,
&
made
void
Gods
Law
,
and
their
Doctrine
our
Sauiour
called
soure
leauen
,
and
warned
his
Disciples
to
beware
of
it
.
Thirdly
,
they
who
translate
the
words
thus
:
The
Priests
lippes
shall
keepe
knowledge
,
and
they
shall
seeke
the
Law
at
his
mouch
:
Did
neuer
intend
to
shew
thereby
,
that
God
did
make
here
a
promise
,
that
so
it
shall
bee
for
euer
,
but
onely
to
shew
that
this
is
the
Law
and
Commandement
of
God
,
teaching
what
the
Priests
and
People
should
doe
and
ought
to
doe
,
euen
as
in
the
Commaudement
,
Thou
shalt
haue
no
other
Gods
but
me
.
The
words
doe
not
promise
,
that
the
Israelites
should
alwaies
acknowledge
and
worship
Iehouah
the
true
God
alone
,
(
for
the
euent
shewed
the
contrary
within
40.
payes
)
but
shew
what
they
ought
to
doe
;
but
the
words
are
a
coms
mandement
recited
,
not
a
promise
made
,
the
wordof
the
4.
verse
shew
.
Therefore
our
English
translation
is
most
perfect
of
all
,
shewing
not
onely
the
sense
and
meaning
of
the
Law
,
but
also
how
it
did
binde
the
Priest
and
People
,
and
how
they
ought
to
obey
it
.
Thus
you
see
how
your
example
doth
make
for
vs
against
your selfe
.
Mr.
Smith
.
Mr.
Smith
finding
worse
successe
then
hee
expected
in
this
example
,
and
perceiuing
the
standers
by
to
be
well
satisfied
with
this
answer
,
flees
presently
to
another
,
to
wit
,
Dan.
4.
27.
where
in
our
English
Translation
the
words
run
thus
.
Breake
off
thy
sins
by
righteousnes
,
&
thine
iniquities
by
shewing
mercy
to
the
poore
:
Here
saith
he
,
the
word
in
the
Chaldee
,
which
is
the
Originall
,
Perok
,
signifies
to
Redeeme
,
and
so
the
Greeke
and
Latine
Translations
render
it
;
but
your
Translations
of
purpose
,
contrary
to
all
the
ancient
receiued
Translators
,
and
to
the
nature
of
the
word
in
the
originall
,
do
translate
it
,
Breake
off
,
and
that
of
purpose
to
oppose
the
true
doctrine
of
satisfaction
&
merit
by
good
works
.
Therefore
your
Church
is
a
false
Church
.
Mr.
Walker
.
Howsoeuer
other
translations
run
,
I
am
sure
our
English
is
in
sense
most
sound
&
Orthodoxe
.
That
translation
which
counsels
Nabuchadnezar
to
redeeme
his
sins
by
righteousnesse
,
is
(
as
the
words
doerun
)
senslesse
and
against
all
reason
;
For
God
neuer
appointed
that
mens
sinnes
should
bee
redeemed
;
but
his
will
is
,
that
they
should
bee
mortified
and
destroyed
,
and
he
so
hates
them
,
that
hee
cannot
leaue
them
vnpunished
,
but
will
haue
iust
vengeance
to
be
executed
for
them
,
eithervpon
the
sinner
himselfe
,
or
on
his
surety
.
If
you
vnderstand
the
words
(
as
you
seeme
to
vrge
them
)
that
Nabuchadnezar
a
wicked
Heathen
King
,
should
by
his
own
righteousnesse
redeeme
himselfe
from
his
sins
;
you
doe
make
Daniel
a
teacher
of
heresie
and
blasphemie
:
for
it
is
no
lesse
then
blasphemy
,
to
hold
that
an
Idolatrous
Pagan
may
by
his
owne
righteousnesse
redeeme
himselfe
:
it
makes
void
the
promise
of
Christ
the
Redeemer
.
But
our
English
translation
doth
teach
excellent
truth
;
to
wit
,
that
a
true
conuert
ought
not
only
to
beleeue
in
Christ
,
and
by
faith
to
put
on
the
Robe
of
Righteousnesse
,
that
therin
he
may
appeare
righteous
before
God
,
and
comely
in
his
sight
;
but
also
to
breake
off
his
sinfull
course
of
life
,
and
neuer
to
goe
on
any
longer
in
any
knowne
sinne
,
as
Papists
doe
,
in
hope
of
absolution
by
confession
and
pennance
.
And
therefore
I
doubt
not
,
but
the
word
in
the
originall
will
be
more
agreeable
to
our
translation
,
when
wee
come
to
see
and
examine
it
,
if
you
be
pleased
to
let
me
see
your
Hebrew
Bible
.
Mr.
Smith
.
Loe
here
in
the
originall
the
word
is
in
the
Caldee
Perok
,
which
signifies
onely
to
redeeme
,
〈◊〉
〈◊〉
〈◊〉
〈◊〉
〈◊〉
as
the
Greeke
translation
renders
it
:
and
the
Latine
Redeeme
.
Mr.
Walker
.
I
thought
that
wee
should
finde
it
thus
,
when
we
came
to
the
tryall
;
dare
you
here
before
these
Gentlemen
put
on
such
an
impudent
face
,
as
to
affirme
without
feare
or
shame
that
this
Parak
signifies
only
to
redeeme
and
nothing
else
?
Mr.
Smith
.
I
confesseit
signifies
also
to
breake
in
sunder
,
but
neuer
to
breake
off
.
Mr.
Walker
.
Yea
,
it
signifies
all
kinde
of
breaking
,
euen
breaking
asunder
,
breaking
a
pieces
,
and
breaking
off
;
for
indeed
it
is
an
Hebrew
word
,
and
the
Caldee
borrowes
it
form
the
Hebrew
,
the
first
and
most
proper
signification
of
it
,
is
to
breake
asunder
,
or
to
breake
off
:
and
it
doth
signifie
to
Redeeme
only
in
a
trope
by
a
Metominie
of
the
cause
for
the
effect
,
for
men
are
redeemed
out
of
bondage
,
by
hauing
their
yoke
of
bondage
broken
off
from
their
necke
,
and
their
chaines
and
fetters
broken
in
sunder
,
and
that
that
breaking
is
the
meanes
of
their
Redemption
:
That
it
signifies
properly
to
breake
off
,
appeares
by
the
common
vse
of
it
in
the
Scriptures
,
as
Gen.
27.
40.
where
Isaac
saith
to
Esau.
Thou
shalt
breake
off
his
yoke
from
thy
necke
:
Exod.
32.
2.
where
Aaron
said
to
the
people
,
Breake
off
the
golden
eare-rings
which
are
in
the
eares
of
your
wiues
,
&c.
Thus
Gentlemen
you
see
what
a
bold
face
this
man
can
set
vpon
a
falshood
,
and
how
hee
goeth
about
to
beare
downe
the
truth
with
great
words
.
Sir
Edward
Harwood
.
Vpon
this
Sir
Edward
Harwood
stood
vp
and
said
,
that
Mr.
Smith
hath
failed
much
in
this
proofe
,
seeing
the
word
in
the
original
did
beare
another
sense
more
proper
,
then
that
which
he
vrged
for
the
only
true
sense
.
And
that
the
proper
sense
which
the
English
translation
did
follow
,
being
so
agreeable
to
the
rule
of
faith
was
rather
to
be
embraced
.
M.
Smith
.
M.
Smith
thus
confounded
had
no
shift
but
this
:
That
the
Hebrew
text
was
by
the
malice
of
the
Iewes
corrupted
in
many
things
,
and
that
it
was
written
of
old
without
pricks
,
vntill
the
Iewish
Massorites
did
inuent
pricks
and
vowels
,
by
which
we
doe
reade
it
,
diuers
hundreds
of
yeeres
after
Christ
:
And
therefore
he
would
not
build
naturall
point
on
the
originall
Hebrew
words
.
Mr.
Walker
.
Now
(
saith
Mr.
Walker
)
you
shew
you
selse
what
you
are
in
your
owne
colours
,
euen
one
who
esteemes
no
authority
or
testimony
either
of
God
or
man
,
further
then
they
serue
your
owne
turne
:
while
you
immagined
that
the
Hebrew
Text
was
against
our
translation
,
you
did
vrge
it
with
great
vehemencie
,
as
the
authority
and
testimony
of
God.
Now
when
it
failes
you
and
contrary
to
your
expectation
doth
make
for
vs
:
you
vilifie
it
and
reiect
it
,
as
a
thing
corrupted
by
the
Iewes
,
and
formed
according
to
the
minde
and
pleasure
of
the
Iewish
Massorites
:
wherein
you
shew
not
onely
vanity
of
mind
and
inconstancie
:
but
also
malice
and
wickednesse
ioined
with
wilfull
ignorance
.
For
how
soeuer
Elias
Leuita
a
turnecoate
Iew
of
later
times
,
may
seeme
to
affirme
such
a
thing
(
perhaps
to
please
his
Patron
Aegidius
)
that
the
Vowels
were
inuented
by
the
Massorites
of
Tiberias
:
yet
it
is
the
iudgement
of
all
the
best
learned
,
both
Iewish
Rabbins
and
Christians
,
that
the
pricks
,
vowels
and
accents
,
were
from
the
beginning
.
And
the
Massorites
were
Iewes
gathered
both
out
of
the
East
and
West
of
purpose
,
to
compare
their
most
auncient
and
authentick
Manuscrips
together
,
and
when
they
found
them
all
to
agree
in
Letters
and
points
,
they
made
their
Massorah
,
and
noted
how
many
times
such
a
word
was
written
with
such
pricks
in
the
Scripture
;
how
many
verses
,
words
,
yet
letters
were
in
the
Law
,
and
which
was
the
middle
verse
,
word
and
letter
,
so
that
by
their
Massorah
,
if
it
hab
beene
kept
perfect
,
a
man
might
finde
out
,
if
there
were
but
one
word
,
letter
,
or
prick
altered
or
taken
away
out
of
all
the
old
Testament
.
All
the
differences
which
were
found
between
the
Bibles
of
the
Easterne
and
Westerne
Iewes
,
are
recorded
and
kept
to
this
day
,
the
one
set
down
vnder
the
names
of
the
Sonnes
of
Ashur
,
the
other
vnder
the
names
of
the
Sonnes
of
Nephtali
,
and
they
are
such
as
do
not
alter
the
sense
at
all
,
as
may
bee
seene
in
all
our
great
Rabbinicall
Bibles
;
The
end
therefore
of
the
Massarites
meeting
,
and
of
their
worke
,
was
not
to
inuent
vowels
and
prickes
,
but
onely
to
note
how
they
did
finde
the
Scriptures
pricked
and
vowelled
from
the
daies
of
old
,
and
to
set
downe
rules
from
the
knowledge
thereof
,
and
for
the
preseruing
them
without
alteration
or
corruption
to
all
posterities
:
Thus
much
I
haue
learned
out
of
the
Rabbins
,
though
my
skill
bee
but
small
in
their
Language
,
and
though
I
haue
had
no
time
to
spend
in
the
study
of
them
,
but
such
as
I
haue
stollen
from
my
other
necessary
studies
of
Diuinity
,
which
properly
concerne
my
Calling
.
And
if
you
know
not
this
to
be
true
,
I
am
sure
you
are
but
a
weak
Hebrutian
,
and
slenderly
read
in
Hebrew
Rabbins
.
Mr.
Smith
.
All
the
Rabbins
are
of
opinion
,
that
the
pricks
of
the
Bible
were
inuented
by
the
Massarites
,
and
vndoubtedly
that
opinion
is
the
truth
.
Mr.
Walker
.
I
pray
you
name
one
Rabbin
of
note
,
who
is
of
that
opinion
,
and
I
will
name
you
ten
of
the
contrary
;
I
haue
ten
or
twelue
of
the
best
Rabbin
Comentaries
vpon
the
Law
of
Moses
,
which
I
will
shew
to
you
,
and
if
you
can
finde
any
of
them
to
be
of
that
opinion
,
I
will
yeeld
vnto
you
in
this
point
.
Nay
,
more
then
that
,
I
will
shew
out
of
the
Scriptures
written
by
Moses
,
that
the
originall
Scriptures
of
Moses
his
Law
,
which
were
kept
in
the
Tabernacle
by
the
Priests
,
were
written
,
not
single
without
pricks
as
common
coppies
were
,
but
double
,
both
with
letters
and
pricks
,
so
that
none
could
doubt
of
the
right
reading
of
them
.
Mr.
Smith
.
It
is
easily
said
;
but
impossible
to
be
proued
,
if
you
can
shew
me
any
such
thing
out
of
the
Scriptures
,
you
shall
do
more
then
any
euer
yet
could
doe
.
Mr.
Walker
.
Looke
Deut.
17.
18.
and
there
it
is
plainly
testified
,
that
there
was
a
booke
of
the
Law
appointed
to
be
kept
before
the
Priests
&
Leuites
in
the
Sanctuary
;
out
of
which
,
the
King
was
commanded
to
write
him
a
double
written
Copie
of
the
Law
,
that
is
a
copie
written
both
with
letters
and
pricks
,
and
so
most
easie
to
be
read
and
vnderstood
;
for
the
Hebrew
word
there
vsed
is
Mishneth
,
which
signifies
Double
,
and
so
you
see
here
in
your
interliniall
Bible
Pagani
doth
translate
it
(
Duplum
legis
)
that
is
,
the
Law
written
in
the
double
forme
,
both
with
letters
and
pricks
.
Another
Priest.
Mr.
Smith
being
confounded
with
this
proofe
could
answer
nothing
,
&
therfore
another
Priest
who
did
sit
by
to
assist
him
,
answered
for
him
,
that
the
Hebrew
word
Mishneth
doth
not
signifie
the
originall
Scriptures
,
but
the
exposition
of
the
Rabbins
vpon
the
text
of
Scripture
.
Mr.
Walker
.
It
is
true
that
the
Rabbins
call
their
Expositions
somtimes
by
this
name
,
as
for
example
Rabbi
Moses
,
Maymonides
call
his
Summe
of
the
Talmid
,
Mishueth
Torah
:
But
you
must
know
that
in
Moses
his
dayes
,
when
he
wrote
this
Booke
of
Deuteronomy
,
there
were
no
Rabbinical
Commentaries
,
nor
for
a
thousand
yeares
after
;
only
the
Law
it selfe
was
kept
before
the
Priests
,
and
the
King
was
commanded
to
write
it
onely
into
a
Booke
;
There
Mishueth
cannot
here
signifie
any
thing
but
the
Text
of
the
Law
written
in
double
forme
,
which
double
forme
of
writing
was
easie
to
bee
read
and
vnderstood
,
and
was
an
exposition
in
respect
of
the
single
writing
without
prickes
.
Whereupon
this
word
Mishueth
came
to
signifie
an
Exposition
or
Commentary
which
doth
largely
expresse
the
meaning
of
the
Law
,
which
is
more
short
and
obscure
:
and
the
Iewes
do
call
by
this
name
the
Book
of
Deuteronomy
,
because
it
is
an
Exposition
of
the
Lawes
written
more
obscurely
in
the
other
bookes
:
And
their
Expositions
of
the
Law
set
down
in
their
Talmud
:
they
also
call
Mishueth
and
Mishuai●th
.
Priest.
The
word
Mishueth
doth
not
signifie
properly
the
Scripture
,
but
the
doubled
Law
:
for
the
Scripture
is
called
Mickra
in
the
Hebrew
tongue
.
Mr.
Walker
.
The
Law
is
the
first
Scripture
which
was
written
,
and
therefore
the
word
Mishuith
by
your
own
confession
,
signisying
the
Law
doubled
,
is
written
in
double
forme
,
signifies
the
Scripture
written
both
with
letters
and
pricks
,
and
so
you
contradict
your selfe
in
your
speech
:
Whereas
you
alledge
another
name
,
by
which
the
Hebrewes
call
the
Scripture
,
to
wit
,
Mickra
,
and
from
them
would
inferre
,
that
the
Scripture
is
neuer
called
Mishueth
by
them
:
I
answer
,
that
your
reason
is
ridiculous
,
for
one
name
of
the
Scripture
doth
not
take
away
the
rest
,
but
it
hath
diuers
names
in
all
languages
:
we
in
English
call
it
the
Scripture
,
and
the
Bible
,
and
the
Booke
of
God
,
and
Gods
word
:
So
in
Hebrew
the
Scripture
is
called
by
diuers
names
;
sometimes
Torah
,
that
is
,
the
Law
,
because
it
is
the
rule
of
Life
;
sometimes
Chethab
,
The
Scripture
or
writing
,
because
it
is
written
.
Sometimes
Mickra
,
because
it
is
read
of
all
Gods
people
.
And
as
it
is
written
full
and
plaine
in
letters
and
pricks
,
it
is
called
Mishueh
.
The
Priest
hauing
nothing
to
reply
to
this
answer
,
but
holding
his
peace
.
Some
of
the
Gentlemen
desired
,
that
these
disputations
about
the
Hebrew
text
,
which
they
could
not
vnderstand
might
cease
,
and
that
Mr.
Smith
would
dispute
in
plaine
English
by
way
of
Syllogismes
;
To
which
motion
both
parties
agreed
.
And
so
Mr.
Smith
proceeded
to
another
Argument
,
which
was
written
downe
first
,
and
then
answered
.
Mr.
Smith
.
That
Church
which
may
erre
for
a
time
in
a
fundamentall
point
necessary
to
saluation
,
is
no
true
Church
.
Yours
is
such
.
Mr.
VValker
.
I
deny
your
proposition
;
for
a
true
Church
may
so
erre
for
a
time
.
Mr.
Smith
.
That
Church
which
may
erre
for
a
time
in
a
fundamentall
point
necessary
to
saluation
,
hath
no
certainty
for
that
time
,
yours
is
such
,
Ergo
,
it
is
no
true
Church
.
Mr.
Walker
.
Your
Argument
is
Sophisticall
and
faultie
diuers
wayes
:
First
,
it
doth
not
proue
the
proposition
which
I
denyed
,
and
so
it
is
a
fallacy
,
which
we
call
〈◊〉
〈◊〉
〈◊〉
〈◊〉
〈◊〉
,
Ignorationem
Elanchi
.
Secondly
,
it
is
no
true
Syllogisme
,
because
it
hath
foure
tearmes
.
For
the
premisses
tend
to
proue
that
our
Church
hath
no
certaintie
,
and
you
conclude
otherwise
:
to
wit
,
that
it
is
no
true
Church
.
Thirdly
,
the
proposition
is
false
,
for
actuall
erring
in
one
point
,
doth
not
take
away
certainty
in
all
the
rest
,
much
lesse
possibilitie
of
erring
for
a
time
.
Mr.
Smith
.
I
proue
it
thus
.
That
Church
which
may
erre
for
a
time
in
a
fundamentall
point
necessary
to
saluation
,
hath
not
sufficient
meanes
of
saluation
for
that
time
:
yours
is
such
,
Ergo
,
it
is
no
true
Church
.
Mr.
Walker
.
Here
are
the
same
three
faults
,
which
were
in
your
former
Argument
.
First
,
no
proofe
of
the
proposition
denyed
.
Secondly
,
foure
tearmes
.
Thirdly
,
the
manner
is
still
false
:
for
possibilitie
of
erring
doth
not
take
away
sufficiency
of
meanes
for
the
time
.
Mr.
Smith
.
I
proue
it
thus
.
That
Church
which
may
erre
for
a
time
in
a
fundamentall
point
necessary
to
saluation
,
for
that
time
hath
not
the
whole
infallible
truth
requisite
to
salvation
.
But
your
Church
may
so
erre
:
Ergo.
It
hath
not
the
whole
infallible
faith
requisite
for
salvation
.
Mr.
Walker
.
I
see
you
cannot
bring
one
argument
to
proue
that
which
I
denyed
;
but
still
you
doe
begin
a
new
Argument
to
proue
new
things
.
Notwithstanding
I
will
follow
you
wheresoever
you
goe
;
and
therefore
I
deny
the
maior
,
and
doe
require
you
to
proue
that
possibility
of
erring
,
takes
away
the
whole
infallible
faith
from
such
as
are
subiect
to
it
.
Mr.
Smith
.
I
proue
it
thus
.
The
beliefe
of
the
whole
infallible
faith
,
is
a
meanes
necessary
to
salvation
.
The
English
Church
hath
not
the
whole
infallible
faith
:
Ergo.
That
Church
which
may
erre
for
a
time
in
a
fundamentall
point
,
for
that
time
hath
not
meanes
sufficient
.
Mr.
Walker
.
Now
sir
I
see
you
haue
lost
the
question
,
and
your
reason
,
and
your selfe
,
and
all
your
speech
is
a
Chaos
without
forme
or
figure
,
and
proueth
nothing
at
all
:
If
you
be
not
able
to
make
a
Syllogisme
;
I
pray
you
confesse
your
weakenesse
:
and
let
mee
dispute
one
of
my
questions
against
you
,
and
let
vs
trie
what
facultie
you
haue
in
defending
your
cause
;
I
am
sure
you
haue
none
to
any
purpose
in
opposing
it
.
Mr.
Smith
.
Stay
a
little
,
and
I
will
bring
it
into
a
Syllogisme
presently
.
The
whole
intire
,
infallible
faith
in
all
fundamentall
points
,
is
onely
a
meanes
sufficient
to
salvation
:
That
Church
which
may
erre
for
a
time
in
a
fundamentall
point
,
hath
not
the
whole
infallible
faith
:
Ergo
:
it
hath
not
sufficient
meanes
,
&c.
Mr.
Walker
.
You
cloy
me
with
crasie
Syllogismes
which
haue
neither
mood
nor
figure
,
and
which
tend
to
proue
nothing
but
onely
to
repeat
what
hath
beene
before
denyed
;
to
wit
,
That
possibility
of
erring
for
a
time
in
a
fundamentall
point
,
doth
depriue
a
Church
of
the
whole
infallible
faith
.
Thus
you
bring
in
againe
as
your
minor
,
though
it
hath
before
beene
denyed
:
and
therefore
I
will
still
put
you
to
proue
it
.
But
I
pray
you
let
your
assistant
write
downe
your
Syllogismes
,
for
I
am
weary
of
writing
,
and
of
wasting
paper
,
with
false
fallacies
and
confused
speeches
,
which
hath
neither
mood
nor
figure
.
Mr.
Smith
.
I
am
sure
I
shall
quickly
bring
my
Argument
into
forme
,
if
you
stand
so
strictly
on
artificiall
Syllogismes
:
Hauing
thus
sayd
,
he
arose
from
the
table
,
as
if
hee
would
breath
himselfe
;
and
after
much
scratching
of
his
head
,
and
other
gestures
,
he
turnes
to
the
Priest
his
assistant
and
bids
him
write
:
and
did
dictate
vnto
him
another
false
Syllogisme
of
some
tearmes
:
which
Mr.
Walker
reiected
and
derided
;
And
after
that
another
,
which
was
so
reiected
:
And
after
that
a
third
,
and
so
on
till
he
had
spent
a
side
of
a
leafe
in
folio
in
writing
downe
fallacies
,
and
a
large
halfe
houre
and
more
of
time
.
So
that
Mr.
Walker
began
to
intreat
him
that
he
would
giue
him
leaue
to
make
his
Syllogisme
for
him
,
for
he
perceiued
what
he
intended
Whereat
Mr.
Smith
chafed
,
and
sayd
to
the
Gentlemen
,
he
confounds
me
,
or
else
I
could
haue
long
agoe
brought
it
into
a
Syllogisme
.
Mr.
Walker
answered
:
you
doe
me
wrong
to
attribute
to
mee
the
honour
which
belongs
to
God
and
his
truth
,
for
they
confound
you
and
not
I.
Then
one
of
the
Roman
Catholikes
began
to
sweare
by
God
,
that
Mr.
Smith
did
make
a
true
Syllogisme
,
which
Mr.
Walker
had
without
cause
reiected
.
Mr.
VValker
desired
him
to
repeat
it
,
and
to
shew
it
to
be
regular
,
according
to
moode
and
figure
.
The
Roman
Catholike
swore
againe
divers
great
oathes
,
and
sayd
that
he
would
take
the
Sacrament
vpon
it
,
and
renounce
his
salvation
if
hee
did
not
heare
Mr.
Smith
make
a
true
Syllogisme
,
and
that
one
of
them
which
Mr.
Walker
reiected
was
it
.
Mr.
VValker
answered
,
that
oathes
could
not
proue
false
Syllogismes
to
be
true
,
neither
could
the
Sacrament
turne
a
fallacy
into
a
sound
Argument
.
And
told
him
that
if
he
were
so
prodigall
of
his
saluation
,
he
might
sooner
lose
his
soule
,
then
make
a
Syllogisme
out
of
Mr.
Smiths
confused
speeches
and
fallacies
.
At
length
after
much
adoe
Mr.
Smith
hammered
out
this
Syllogisme
.
Mr.
Smith
.
That
Church
which
hath
not
the
whole
intire
infallible
faith
,
hath
not
meanes
sufficient
to
salvation
,
That
Church
which
may
erre
for
a
time
,
hath
not
the
whole
intire
infallible
faith
,
Ergo
,
it
hath
not
meanes
sufficient
.
Mr.
Walker
.
I
deny
your
minor
,
and
doe
put
you
to
proue
,
that
the
Church
which
may
erre
,
hath
not
the
whole
infallible
faith
.
Mr.
Smith
.
I
proue
it
thus
:
That
Church
which
is
subiect
to
error
,
hath
not
the
whole
infallible
faith
.
That
Church
which
may
erre
is
subiect
to
error
.
Ergo.
Mr.
Walker
.
Now
sir
I
thanke
you
,
that
you
haue
bestowed
a
Syllogisme
vpon
me
,
to
proue
the
proposition
denied
.
But
I
must
tell
you
,
that
your
maior
proposition
is
false
.
For
a
Church
may
be
so
far
subiect
to
error
,
that
it
may
haue
a
possibility
to
erre
,
and
yet
not
be
voide
of
the
whole
infallible
faith
:
It
is
one
thing
to
be
subiect
to
error
,
and
another
thing
to
erre
actually
:
we
hold
that
our
Church
or
any
other
particular
Protestant
Church
may
erre
;
but
doe
not
thinke
that
our
Church
doth
erre
in
any
fundamentall
point
.
Mr.
Smith
.
You
doe
but
cavill
;
for
if
it
may
erre
,
it
is
as
bad
as
if
it
did
erre
,
and
therefore
I
haue
sufficiently
convinced
you
by
my
argument
.
Mr.
Walker
.
I
hope
you
doe
not
speake
as
you
thinke
,
nor
thinke
as
you
speake
:
For
you
know
that
by
our
Law
euery
Seminary
Priest
is
subiect
to
hanging
and
quartering
,
and
there
is
no
impossibility
of
executing
the
Law
vpon
them
;
And
yet
you
hope
that
all
or
the
most
part
of
them
in
England
shall
not
be
actually
executed
;
and
you
know
that
they
are
not
all
in
the
same
case
,
as
if
they
were
hanging
actually
:
For
an
Argument
doth
not
follow
a
posse
ad
esse
,
as
we
Schollers
speake
.
But
now
seeing
your
argument
is
hanged
vp
,
and
wee
haue
spent
foure
houres
and
more
in
hearing
you
dispute
to
no
purpose
,
I
pray
you
let
mee
prosecute
one
of
my
questions
against
you
for
the
time
which
remaineth
,
and
I
hope
to
make
more
Syllogismes
in
an
houre
,
then
you
haue
done
in
foure
,
if
you
will
answer
me
directly
.
Here
some
of
the
Roman
Catholikes
said
that
it
was
full
sixe
a
clocke
,
and
now
there
was
little
time
left
.
But
some
of
the
Protestants
desired
to
heare
Mr.
Walker
dispute
vpon
his
questions
.
Which
when
Mr.
Smith
seemed
loath
to
yeeld
vnto
,
as
being
weary
already
.
Mr.
Walker
desired
,
that
he
might
but
turne
one
Argument
against
Mr.
Smiths
question
,
and
proue
the
contrary
to
be
true
.
To
this
all
assented
,
and
the
Gentleman
who
began
to
distrust
his
former
professed
Popery
comming
to
Mr.
Walker
,
and
standing
at
his
backe
desired
him
to
presse
one
Argument
against
Mr.
Smiths
question
.
Whereupon
Mr.
Walker
thus
began
to
proue
,
That
a
true
Christian
Church
might
erre
for
a
time
in
some
fundamentall
point
,
and
yet
be
a
true
Church
.
Mr.
Walker
.
That
which
the
auncient
Apostolicall
Church
might
doe
,
other
succeeding
Churches
may
doe
with
the
same
successe
.
The
Apostolicall
Church
might
erre
and
did
erre
in
a
maine
point
,
and
yet
haue
a
true
faith
,
and
was
a
true
Church
,
Ergo
,
other
Churches
also
.
Mr.
Smith
.
I
deny
the
minor
,
the
Apostolicall
Church
did
not
erre
in
any
maine
point
.
Mr.
Walker
.
The
resurrection
of
Christ
from
the
dead
taught
in
the
Scriptures
,
is
a
fundamentall
point
of
Faith.
The
Apostolike
Church
did
erre
in
it
,
Ergo
:
Mr.
Smith
denyed
the
minor
.
Mr.
VValker
proued
it
thus
.
That
which
the
Gospell
teacheth
in
expresse
words
is
true
.
This
the
Gospell
teacheth
,
that
the
Apostles
erred
in
Christs
resurrection
,
Ergo.
Mr.
Smith
.
If
you
say
that
they
erred
in
the
resurrection
de
facto
,
that
is
concerning
the
act
of
it
,
I
grant
the
minor
:
But
if
you
speake
of
the
resurrection
as
it
is
a
point
of
Faith
,
I
deny
your
minor
.
Mr.
VValker
.
You
distinguish
strangely
betweene
a
thing
and
it selfe
;
for
the
very
act
of
Christs
resurrection
is
a
point
of
Faith
,
without
which
our
faith
is
vaine
as
the
Apostle
sayth
,
1
Cor.
15.
17.
Mr.
Smith
.
It
is
now
a
point
of
faith
,
but
it
was
not
then
,
because
the
Scriptures
had
not
expressely
revealed
,
that
Christ
should
rise
from
death
.
Mr.
Walker
.
That
which
Christ
had
expresly
taught
by
word
of
mouth
,
was
thereby
made
a
point
of
Faith
,
and
they
were
bound
to
beleeue
.
But
he
had
told
them
,
that
he
must
suffer
and
rise
againe
the
third
day
:
and
that
in
plaine
words
,
as
the
Gospell
testifies
,
Ergo.
Here
some
of
the
Gentlemen
said
,
that
the
point
was
sufficiently
proued
.
Mr.
Smith
.
But
I
deny
that
the
Apostles
erred
in
the
Resurrection
:
shew
me
that
out
of
the
Gospell
.
Mr.
Walker
.
It
is
testified
Ioh.
20.
9.
That
they
knew
not
the
Scripture
that
he
must
rise
from
the
dead
.
Loe
thus
it
is
testified
in
your
owne
vulgar
Latine
Bible
.
Mr.
Smith
.
I
say
still
,
that
the
Scriptures
had
not
reuealed
it
sufficiently
,
and
therefore
it
was
no
point
of
faith
.
Mr.
Walker
.
The
text
shewes
that
the
Scripture
had
reuealed
,
for
else
how
could
it
truely
say
,
that
they
knew
not
the
Scripture
;
if
the
Scripture
had
not
taught
it
?
It
is
no
ignorance
of
Scripture
,
not
to
know
what
the
Scripture
neuer
taught
.
Sir
William
Harrington
.
O
well
sayd
,
I
protest
I
neuer
heard
any
point
so
plainely
proued
;
and
then
turning
himselfe
to
the
wauering
Gentleman
said
:
Now
cousen
,
if
euer
thou
wilt
be
conuerted
,
be
conuerted
with
these
proofes
.
Mr.
Walker
.
But
yet
I
will
proue
it
more
fully
,
Luk.
24.
44.
45.
Our
Sauiour
there
saith
,
that
he
had
told
them
before
,
that
he
must
die
and
rise
againe
,
and
that
it
was
written
in
the
Law
of
Moses
,
and
in
the
Prophets
,
and
in
the
Psalmes
,
and
it
is
said
there
,
that
he
opened
their
vnderstanding
,
that
they
might
vnderstand
the
Scriptures
.
Mr.
Smith
.
This
was
an
error
of
ignorance
or
forgetfulnesse
,
for
want
of
instruction
and
exercise
in
the
Word
,
which
succeeding
Churches
haue
more
aboundantly
.
Mr.
Walker
.
You
cauill
against
common
sense
,
for
I
dispute
not
whence
this
error
proceeded
,
but
whether
they
erred
in
that
maine
point
of
the
resurrection
or
not
;
and
that
you
cannot
deny
,
so
that
the
point
is
fully
proued
which
I
vndertooke
.
Againe
,
I
can
shew
you
yet
further
,
that
Christ
having
instructed
them
in
the
Scriptures
,
and
from
his
owne
mouth
,
it
could
not
be
for
want
of
instruction
that
they
erred
,
but
this
error
proceeded
from
incredulity
and
hardnes
of
heart
in
them
,
so
it
appeares
,
Mark.
16.
14.
where
it
is
said
that
our
Sauiour
appeared
to
the
eleven
Apostles
,
and
vpbraided
them
with
their
incredulitie
and
hardnesse
of
heart
,
because
they
beleeued
not
them
which
had
seene
him
after
he
was
risen
.
Another
Priest.
Mr.
Smith
being
put
to
silence
with
those
proofes
,
the
other
Priest
to
make
vp
this
breach
,
fled
to
another
shift
,
and
denyed
the
Apostles
to
haue
beene
a
Church
at
that
time
,
because
the
holy
Ghost
was
not
yet
come
downe
,
nor
the
Euangelicall
Law
reuealed
.
Mr.
Walker
.
Vpon
this
,
Mr.
Walker
first
spake
to
the
wauering
Gentleman
,
and
asked
him
,
whether
he
thought
it
not
well
for
him
to
be
of
such
a
Church
as
St.
Peter
was
,
when
Christ
said
.
Math.
16.
Happy
art
thou
Simon
,
&c.
And
,
vpon
this
rocke
I
will
build
my
Church
.
Who
answered
,
that
he
desired
to
be
of
no
better
Church
.
Secondly
,
he
proceeded
thus
;
The
Kingdome
of
God
which
comes
by
the
Preaching
of
the
Gospell
is
the
true
Church
.
But
that
was
come
alreadie
,
as
our
Sauiour
himselfe
testified
,
Matth.
11.
28.
and
Luk.
11.
20.
It
is
a
base
shift
,
to
say
that
the
comming
downe
of
the
holy
Ghost
made
them
a
Church
:
For
his
extraordinary
gifts
came
not
to
make
them
Christians
,
and
members
of
the
Church
of
Christ
,
but
to
make
them
fit
messengers
to
Preach
to
all
Nations
,
and
to
euery
people
,
in
their
proper
tongue
.
But
if
all
this
will
not
conuince
you
,
let
vs
know
who
were
the
Church
in
those
dayes
,
if
the
Apostles
were
not
.
Peter
had
receiued
that
commission
and
promise
long
before
,
vpon
which
you
build
the
Church
of
Rome
,
if
it
was
not
then
able
to
make
him
of
the
Church
,
how
can
it
now
vphold
your
Church
against
all
the
gates
of
hell
?
Now
then
to
conclude
,
I
beseech
you
as
you
loue
your
soules
,
take
heed
of
sinning
against
your
owne
Conscience
,
and
of
rebelling
against
the
light
:
you
know
that
the
Apostles
were
elected
from
all
eternitie
;
they
were
effectually
called
by
Christ
himselfe
,
not
onely
to
beleeue
,
and
to
be
Christians
and
open
professors
,
but
also
to
be
Apostles
and
Preachers
,
and
by
the
Gospell
Preached
and
Miracles
wrought
,
they
had
conuerted
many
to
the
faith
,
as
the
Gospell
testifieth
;
And
therefore
nothing
being
wanting
in
them
,
which
is
required
to
the
essence
of
a
Christian
Church
:
vndoubtedly
they
were
a
true
Church
,
and
to
deny
this
,
is
to
resist
the
manifest
truth
of
the
Gospell
.
Thus
the
disputation
ended
;
for
the
Priests
did
not
giue
any
answer
,
but
were
very
willing
to
make
an
end
.
The
Protestant
Gentlemen
seemed
well
satisfied
,
and
made
them
readie
to
depart
.
And
one
of
the
Roman
Catholikes
calling
Mr.
VValker
aside
,
began
to
collogue
and
flatter
with
him
;
telling
him
,
that
he
was
a
good
Logician
,
a
good
Linguist
,
and
well
read
,
and
that
God
had
giuen
him
a
sharpe
wit
and
ready
tongue
:
And
therefore
no
maruell
though
he
preuailed
and
made
a
good
cause
seeme
bad
,
when
he
opposed
it
,
and
a
bad
seeme
good
when
he
defended
it
:
But
saith
he
,
take
heed
that
you
do
not
trust
to
your
wit
and
learning
too
much
,
least
they
deceiue
you
,
and
make
you
triumph
ouer
the
truth
.
To
him
Mr.
Walker
answered
,
that
he
knew
himselfe
inferiour
to
many
hundreds
in
the
Church
of
England
;
that
it
was
not
any
power
in
himselfe
,
but
the
power
of
the
true
cause
which
made
him
to
preuaile
.
For
,
Magnus
est
veritas
&
praeualebit
,
Great
is
truth
and
will
preuaile
.
A
Gentleman
ouer-hearing
,
laughed
and
sayd
,
I
am
glad
that
you
finde
some
of
our
Ministers
more
learned
then
your
Priests
;
contrary
to
your
common
bragging
and
boasting
,
that
all
learning
is
among
your
Priests
and
Iesuites
.
And
so
they
parted
.
Mr.
Smith
alias
Norrice
embracing
Mr.
Walker
,
and
saying
;
I
pray
God
we
may
meet
in
heauen
;
and
Mr.
Walker
replying
and
saying
,
I
desire
so
also
,
and
hope
we
shall
so
doe
,
if
you
will
forsake
your
errours
and
embrace
the
truth
,
which
is
professed
in
the
reformed
Churches
of
CHRIST
.
Soli
Deo
gloria
.
FINIS
.
Notes, typically marginal, from the original text
Notes for div A14657-e110
Math.
13.
4.
16.
12.