a direction for a publick profession in the church assembly, after private examination by the elders which direction is taken out of the scripture, and points unto that faith and covenant contained in the scripture. being the same for substance which was propounded to, and agreed upon by the church of salem at their beginning. the sixth of the sixth moneth, 1629. in the preface to the declaration of the faith owned and professed by the congregationall churches in england. ... higginson, john, 1616-1708. 1665 approx. 7 kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from 4 1-bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : 2009-10 (eebo-tcp phase 1). a43756 wing h1955a estc r213456 99825834 99825834 30225 this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons 0 1.0 universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase 1, no. a43756) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set 30225) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, 1641-1700 ; 1795:5) a direction for a publick profession in the church assembly, after private examination by the elders which direction is taken out of the scripture, and points unto that faith and covenant contained in the scripture. being the same for substance which was propounded to, and agreed upon by the church of salem at their beginning. the sixth of the sixth moneth, 1629. in the preface to the declaration of the faith owned and professed by the congregationall churches in england. ... higginson, john, 1616-1708. 6 p. samuel green, [cambridge, mass. : 1665] author's name and imprint from wing. caption title; title from caption and opening words of text. reproduction of the original in the harvard university library. created by converting tcp files to tei p5 using tcp2tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between 1473 and 1700 available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the 25,363 texts created during phase 1 of the project have been released into the public domain as of 1 january 2015. anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. 5% (or 5 pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of 100 instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level 4 of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p5, characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng congregational churches in massachusetts -government -early works to 1800. 2008-10 tcp assigned for keying and markup 2008-12 spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images 2009-01 scott lepisto sampled and proofread 2009-01 scott lepisto text and markup reviewed and edited 2009-02 pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a direction for a publick profession in the church assembly , after private examination by the elders . which direction is taken out of the scripture , and points unto that faith and covenant contained in the scripture . being the same for substance which was propounded to , and agreed upon by the church of salem at their beginning , the sixth of the sixth moneth , 1629. in the preface to the declaration of the faith owned and professed by the congregationall churches in england . the genuine use of a confession of faith is , that under the same form of words they express the substance of the same common salvation or unity of their faith. accordingly it is to be looked upon as a fit meanes , whereby to express that their common faith and salvation , and not to be made use of as an imposition upon any . vve beseech you brethren to know them that labour among you , and are over you in the lord , and admonish you and to esteem them very highly in love for their work sake and be at peace among your selves , 1 thess . 5.12 , 13. obey them that have the rule over you and submit your selves for they watch for your soules , as they that must give an account , that they may do it with j●y and not with grief , for that is unprofitable for you , heb. 13.17 . who is that wise and faithfull steward , whom his lord shall make ruler over his houshold , to give them their portion of mea● in due season , luk. 12.42 . one faith , one baptism , eph. 4.5 . the common faith , tit. 1.4 . the common salvation , jude ver. 3. christ jesus the high priest of our profession , heb. 3.1 . the profession of our faith. heb. 10.22 . one shall say i am the lords , isai . 44.5 . hold fast the form of sound words . 2 tim. 1.13 . the form of knowledge , and of the truth , rom. 2.20 . the form of doctrine delivered unto you , rom. 6.17 . the confession of faith . i do believe with my heart and confess with my mouth . concerning god. that there is but one only true god in three persons , the father , the son , and the holy ghost , each of them god , and all of them one and the same infinite , eternall god , most wise , holy , just , mercifull and blessed for ever . concerning the works of god. that this god is the maker , preserver , and governour of all things according to the counsel of his own will , and that god made man in his own image , in knowledge , holiness and righteousness . concerning the fall of m●n . that adam by transgressing the command of god , f●ll from god and brought himself and his posterity into a state of sin and death , under the wrath and curse of god , which i do believe to be my own condition by nature as well as any other . concerning jesus christ . that god sent his son into the world , who for our sakes became man , that he might redeem and save us by his obedience unto death , and that he arose from the dead , ascended unto heaven and sitteth at the right hand of god , from whence he shall come to judge the world. concerning the holy ghost . that god the holy ghost hath fully , revealed the doctrine of christ and will of god in the scriptures of the old and new testament , which are the word of god , the perfect , perpetuall and only rule of our faith and obedience . concerning the benefits we have by christ . that the same spirit by working faith in gods elect , applyeth unto them christ with all his benefits of justification , and sanctification , unto salvation , in the use of those ordinances which god hath appointed in his written word , which therefore ought to be observed by us unt●l the coming of christ . concerning the church of christ . that all true believers being united unto christ as the head , make up one misticall church which is the body of christ , the members wherof having fellowship with the father son and holy-ghost by faith , and one with another in love , doe receive here upon earth forgiveness of sinnes , with the life of grace , and at the resurrection of the body , they shall receive everlasting life . amen . the covenant . i do heartily take and avouch this one god who is made known to us in the scripture , by the name of god the father , and god the son even jesus christs and god the holy ghost to be my god , according to the tenour of the covenant of grace ; wherein he hath promised to be a god to the faithfull and their seed after them in their generations , and taketh them to be his people and therfore unfeignedly repenting of all my sins , i do give up my self wholy unto this god to believe in love , serve & obey him sincerely and faithfully according to his written word , against all the temptations of the devil , the world , and my own flesh and this unto the death . i do also consent to be a member of this particular church , promising to continue stedfastly in fellowship with it , in the publick worsh●p of god , to submit to the order discipline and government of christ in it , and to the ministerial teach●ng guidance and oversight of the elders of it , and to the brotherly watch of fellow members : and all this according to gods word , and by the grace of our lord jesus christ enabling me thereunto . amen . questions to be answered at the baptizing of children , or the substance to be expressed by the parents . quest . doe you present and give up this child , or these children , unto god the father , sonne and holy ghost , to be baptized in the faith , and engaged in the covenant of god professed by this church ? quest . doe you s●llemnly promise in the p●…senc●… of god , that by the grace of christ , you will discharge your covenant duty towards your children , s●e●s to bring them upon the nurture and admon●…ion of the lord , teaching and commanding them to keep the way of god , that they may be able ( through the grace of christ ) to make a personall prof●ssion of their faith and to own the covenant of god themselves in due time . finis a coppy of a letter of mr. cotton of boston, in new england, sent in answer of certaine objections made against their discipline and orders there, directed to a friend vvith the questions propounded to such as are admitted to the church-fellowship and the covenant it selfe. way of the churches of christ in new-england cotton, john, 1584-1652. this text is an enriched version of the tcp digital transcription a34672 of text r11464 in the english short title catalog (wing c6422). textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. the text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with morphadorner. the annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. this text has not been fully proofread approx. 10 kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from 5 1-bit group-iv tiff page images. earlyprint project evanston,il, notre dame, in, st. louis, mo 2017 a34672 wing c6422 estc r11464 12832504 ocm 12832504 94333 this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons 0 1.0 universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase 1, no. a34672) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set 94333) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, 1641-1700 ; 254:e163, no 11) a coppy of a letter of mr. cotton of boston, in new england, sent in answer of certaine objections made against their discipline and orders there, directed to a friend vvith the questions propounded to such as are admitted to the church-fellowship and the covenant it selfe. way of the churches of christ in new-england cotton, john, 1584-1652. [2], 6 p. s.n.], [london? : 1641. reproduction of original in thomason collection, british library. eng congregational churches -discipline. a34672 r11464 (wing c6422). civilwar no a coppy of a letter of mr. cotton of boston, in new england, sent in answer of certaine objections made against their discipline and orders cotton, john 1641 1740 5 0 0 0 0 0 29 c the rate of 29 defects per 10,000 words puts this text in the c category of texts with between 10 and 35 defects per 10,000 words. 2002-04 tcp assigned for keying and markup 2002-04 apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images 2002-05 tcp staff (oxford) sampled and proofread 2002-05 emma (leeson) huber text and markup reviewed and edited 2002-06 pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a coppy of a letter of mr. cotton of boston , in new england , sent in answer of certaine objections made against their discipline and orders there , directed to a friend . vvith the questions propounded to such as are admitted to the church-fellowship , and the covenant it selfe . printed in the yeare 1641. a coppy of a letter of mr. cotton of boston , in an answer of certaine objections made against their discipline and orders there , directed to a friend . with the questions put to such as are admitted to the church fellowship and the covenant it selfe . there have been things ( as it seemeth ) reported unto you ; first , that we receive none into our church-fellowship untill they first disclaime their churches in england as no churches , but as limbs of the devill ; now , i answer , god forbid , god forbid : it is true , one sheba of ●ukry blew a trumpet of such a ●●●●tious separation ; i meane , one mr. williams late t●●c●●r of salem , but himselfe and others that followed ●●st●●y in that way , who were all excommunicated out of the church and banished out of the common-wealth , for men in that way and of such a spirit are wont not onely to renounce the churches of england , but ours also , because we held communion with them in england in the things which are of god ; see therefore how unjustly wee are slandered for renouncing communion with you , as is mentioned , and for it they themselves are punished in our common wealth , censures in our churches ; for such antichristian exorbit●res : by this you may see the objection clearely answered . the second calumny is , that our members must professe their repentance for all former communion with the churches among you : now for the answer , wee professe no such things , but onely in generall so farre as we have polluted our selves with any corruptions or inventions of men , or defiled gods ordinances with any corruption of their owne , whereby you may gather answer from the second calumny . the third calumny is , that we enter into covenant solemnly , never to have communion with the present churches of england , whereas in truth we never have such words or meaning in any part of our covenant , but that we professe to walke in all the ordinances of the lord , according to his will revealed in his word . of the fourth report you mention , there is some ground for it , our practise , power indeed is given among us to the people to chuse their ministers , so likewise to receive any member unto the church fellowship , and to joyne in the excommunication of such as grow scandalous . which yet is very rare . among us through the goodnesse of god scarce two or three have beene excommunicated out of our churches , which is more for rejecting communion with the churches , than for any other crime : it is true also , that we allow any members of the church to complaine of an offence given him by any brother , if a private way of admonition according to the rule have not reformed him , matth. 18. 17. but that hath fallen out very seldome since i came hither , for ought i have heard , either in our owne or other churches , they much wrong both you and us who told you that master wilson was suspended from his ministry for his journey into england , or for any communion he had with the churches there ; nor to my remembrance did any of the brethren question him about it , till of himselfe he began to give some account of his journey to the church , and then indeede two or three grave and godly men desired him to cleare a passage or two ; first , how he could leave the whole congregation above twelve moneths together without their consent , and how he could leave his wife ( as i remember ) without her consent ; to both which he gave a satisfactory answer , and was not at all suspended by the church , but of himselfe he forbare one day , or at the least halfe a day , till hee had declared both the particulars ; that which you adde of grace and gifts of christ , or of his presence in the ministry of his servants among you , we willingly & thankefully acknowledge and do professe , that the hope which most of us have obtained of the common salvation wee received from the preaching of gods faithfull ministers among you , wee cannot , we dare not deny to blesse the wombe which bare us , and the paps which gave us sucke ; and long may these lights shine among you , with all peace , purity , and power , amen . what you speake of separatists and brownists ; wee generally here doe consent with you , that the bitternesse of separation whereby men doe not onely cut themselves from the inventions of men , but also from the ordinances of god and fellowship of his servants ; for who so have done , they never were blessed with peace : as for those scruples you pray me to weigh without prejudice , we here doe consent with you therein , only there is a passage or two which i crave leave to explaine my self in first that you say our pastor m. wilson affirmes among you that wee did not follow calvins platforme as an episcopall he saith , he doth not remember any such word to have fallen from him , onely thus much he confesseth , as we doe all here , that wee doe not transact all things so reservedly in a consistory , but though wee bee prebestary , doe prepare all things for the church , yet wee transact no publique act , but in their presence , and with their consents , unlesse any of their brethren can give a reason from the scripture to the contrary , or some better intelligence of his owne , which latter sometimes falls out ; secondly , what you speake of prophesying , i neede not say much of it , it is very warily used here , unlesse it be in absence , and weakenesse of ministers , and for any abuse herein allow it not , but dislike it as you doe : now you have shewed so much for to inquire the truth of these matters , i pray you informe others also what answer you have received , which will be a further testimony of your love ; pray for us , as we doe for you , so taking leave i rest , your unworthy weake brother in christ , iohn cotton . questions put to such as are admitted to the church-fellowship . how it pleased god to worke in them , to bring them home to christ , whether the law have convinced them of sinne , how the lord hath wonne them to deny themselves and their owne righteousnesse , and to rely on the righteousnesse of christ , then they make a briefe confession , or else an answer to a few questions about the maine fundamentall points of religion , that it may appeare indeed whether they be competently endued with the knowledge of the truth , and sound in the faith , and about the godhead , the trinity , the worke , our first estate of innocency the fall our redemption , christ his natures , his offices , faith , the sacraments , the church , the resurrection , the last judgement , such as every christian man is bound to learne and give account of ; we refuse none for weakenesse , either knowledge or grace , if the whole be in them , and that any of the church can give testimony of their christian and sincere affections , and then the church consenting to their admission , one of the elders propounded to the party , the covenant that hee must enter into with god and the church , whereunto the party expresly covenants , then is reciprocally received the churches covenant backe againe by the voyce of the elder . this is all the secret we have among us , neither have we any more secret carriage , than this which no godly man that ever came over to us have ever disliked , you come not more willingly to have communion with us , then we receive you , upon no harder termes then have been declared . the covenant it selfe . since it hath pleased god to move you brethren to hold forth the right hand of fellowship ; it is your part , and that which i am to require of you in the name of the lord , and of his church , before you can be admitted there unto , whether you be willing to enter a holy covenant with god , and with them and by the grace and helpe of christ be willing to deny your selfe , and all your former polutions , and corruptions , wherein in any sort you have walked , and so to give up your selfe to the lord iesus , making him your onely priest and attonement , your onely profit , your onely guide and king , and lawgiver , and to walke before him in all professed subjections unto all his holy ordinance , according to the rule of the gospell , and to walke together with his church and the members thereof in brotherly love , and mutuall edification and succor according to god ; then doe i also promise unto you in the name of this church , that by the helpe of christ , we likewise will walke towards you in all brotherly love and holy watchfulnesse to the mutuall building , up one of another in the fellowship of the lord iesus , amen , amen . finis . heads of agreement assented to by the united ministers in and about london, formerly called presbyterian and congregational 1691 approx. 20 kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from 12 1-bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : 2005-10 (eebo-tcp phase 1). a43183 wing h1282a estc r16201 12858893 ocm 12858893 94645 this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons 0 1.0 universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase 1, no. a43183) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set 94645) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, 1641-1700 ; 383:12) heads of agreement assented to by the united ministers in and about london, formerly called presbyterian and congregational howe, john, 1630-1705. [7], 16 p. printed by r.r. for tho. cockerill ... and john dunton ..., london : 1691. largely the work of john howe. cf. dnb. "licensed and entred according to order" reproduction of original in huntington library. created by converting tcp files to tei p5 using tcp2tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between 1473 and 1700 available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the 25,363 texts created during phase 1 of the project have been released into the public domain as of 1 january 2015. anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. 5% (or 5 pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of 100 instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level 4 of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p5, characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng presbyterian church -relations -congregational churches. christian union -england -london. congregational churches -relations -presbyterian church. 2004-10 tcp assigned for keying and markup 2004-11 spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images 2005-01 judith siefring sampled and proofread 2005-01 judith siefring text and markup reviewed and edited 2005-04 pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion heads of agreement assented to by the united ministers in and about london : formerly called presbyterian and congregational . licensed and entred according to order . london : printed by r. r. for tho. cockerill , at the three legs , and iohn dunton at the raven , in the poultrey . mdcxci . the preface to the reader . endeavours for an agreement among christians , will be grievous to none who desire the flourishing state of christianity it self . the success of these attempts among us , must be ascribed to a presence of god so signal , as not to be concealed ; and seems a hopeful pledg of further blessings . the favour of our rulers in the present established liberty , we most thankfully acknowledg ; and to them we are studious to approve our selves in the whole of this affair . therefore we declare against intermedling with the national church-form : imposing these terms of agreement on others , is disclaimed : all pretence to coercive power , is as unsuitable to our principles , as to our circumstances : excommunication it self , in our respective churches , being no other than a declaring such scandalous members as are irreclaimable , to be incapable of communion with us in things peculiar to visible believers : and in all , we expresly determine our purpose , to the maintaining of harmony and love among our selves , and preventing the inconveniences which humane weakness may expose to in our use of this liberty . the general concurrence of ministers and people in this city , and the great disposition thereto in other places , persuade us , this happy work is undertaken in a season designed for such divine influence , as will overcome all impediments to peace , and convince of that agreement which has been always among us in a good degree , tho neither to our selves nor others so evident , as hereby it is now acknowledged . need there any arguments to recommend this vnion ? is not this what we all have prayed for , and providence by the directest indications hath been long calling and disposing us to ? can either zeal for god , or prudent regards to our selves remissly suggest it , seeing the blessings thereof are so important , and when it 's become in so many respects even absolutely necessary ; especially as it may conduce to the preservation of the protestant religion , and the kingdoms weal ; a subserviency whereto , shall always govern our vnited abilities , with the same disposition to a concurence with all others who are duly concerned for those national blessings . as these considerations render this agreement desirable , so they equally urge a watchful care against all attemps of satan to dissolve it , or frustrate the good effects thereof so manifestly destructive to his kingdom . therefore it's incumbent on us , to forbear condemning and disputing those different sentiments and practices we have expresly allowed for : to reduce all distinguishing names , to that of united brethren : to admit no uncharitable jealousies , or censorious speeches ; much less any debates whether party seems most favoured by this agreement . such carnal regards are of small moment with us , who herein have used words less acurate , that neither side might in their various conceptions about lesser matters be contradicted , when in all substantials we are fully of one mind ; and from this time hope more perfectly to rejoice in the honour , gifts , and success of each other , as our common good . that we as united , may contribute our utmost to the great concernments of our redeemer , it 's mutually resolved , we will assist each other with our labours , and meet and consult , without the least shadow of separate or distinct parties : whence we joyfully expect great improvements in light and love , through the more abundant supplies of the spirit ; being well assured we herein serve that prince of peace , of the increase of whose government and peace , there shall be no end . this agreement is already assented to by above fourscore ministers , and the preface approved of . heads of agreement assented to by the united ministers , &c. the following heads of agreement have been resolved upon , by the united ministers in and about london , formerly called presbyterian and congregational ; not as a measure for any national constitution , but for the preservation of order in our congregations , that cannot come up to the common rule by law established . i. of churches and church-members . 1. we acknowledge our lord jesus christ to have one catholick church , or kingdom , comprehending all that are united to him , whether in heaven or earth . and do conceive the whole multitude of visible believers , and their infant-seed ( commonly called the catholick visible church ) to belong to christ's spiritual kingdom in this world : but for the notion of a catholick visible church here , as it signifies its having been collected into any formed society , under a visible human head on earth , whether one person singly , or many collectively , we , with the rest of protestants , unanimously disclaim it . 2. we agree , that particular societies of visible saints , who under christ their head , are statedly joined together for ordinary communion with one another , in all the ordinances of christ , are particular churches , and are to be owned by each other , as instituted churches of christ , tho differing in apprehensions and practice in some lesser things . 3. that none shall be admitted as members , in order to communion in all the special ordinances of the gospel , but such persons as are knowing and sound in the fundamental doctrines of the christian religion , without scandal in their lives ; and to a judgment regulated by the word of god , are persons of visible godliness and honesty ; credibly professing cordial subjection to jesus christ. 4. a competent number of such visible saints ( as before described ) do become the capable subjects of stated communion in all the special ordinances of christ , upon their mutual declared consent and agreement to walk together therein according to gospel rule . in which declaration , different degrees of expliciteness , shall no way hinder such churches from owning each other , as instituted churches . 5. tho parochial bounds be not of divine right , yet for common edification , the members of a particular church ought ( as much as conveniently may be ) to live near one another . 6. that each particular church hath right to chuse their own officers ; and being furnished with such as are duly qualified and ordained according to the gospel rule , hath authority from christ for exercising government , and of enjoying all the ordinances of worship within it self . 7. in the administration of church power , it belongs to the pastors and other elders of every particular church ( if such there be ) to rule and govern : and to the brotherhood to consent , according to the rule of the gospel . 8. that all professors as before described , are bound in duty , as they have opportunity , to join themselves as fixed members of some particular church ; their thus joining , being part of their professed subjection to the gospel of christ , and an instituted means of their establishment and edification ; whereby they are under the pastoral care , and in case of scandalous or offensive walking , may be authoritatively admonished or censured for their recovery , and for vindication of the truth , and the church professing it . 9. that a visible professor thus joined to a particular church , ought to continue stedfastly with the said church ; and not forsake the ministry and ordinances there dispensed , without an orderly seeking a recommendation unto another church . which ought to be given , when the case of the person apparently requires it . ii. of the ministry . 1. we agree , that the ministerial office is instituted by jesus christ , for the gathering , guiding , edifying , and governing of his church ; and to continue to the end of the world . 2. they who are called to this office , ought to be endued with competent learning , and ministerial gifts , as also with the grace of god , found in judgment , not novices in the faith and knowledg of the gospel ; without scandal , of holy conversation , and such as devote themselves to the work and service thereof . 3. that ordinarily none shall be ordained to the work of this ministry , but such as are called and chosen thereunto by a particular church . 4. that in so great and weighty a matter , as the calling and chusing a pastor , we judg it ordinarily requisite , that every such church consult and advise with the pastors of neighbouring congregations . 5 : that after such advice , the person consulted about , being chosen by the brotherhood of that particular church over which he is to be set , and he accepting , be duly ordained , and set apart to his office over them ; wherein t is ordinarily requisite , that the pastors of neighbouring congregations concur with the preaching-elder , or elders , if such there be . 6. that whereas such ordination is only intended for such as never before had been ordained to the ministerial office ; if any judge , that in the case also of the removal of one formerly ordained , to a new station or pastoral charge , there ought to be a like solemn recommending him and his labours to the grace and blessing of god ; no different sentiments or practice herein , shall be any occasion of contention or breach of communion among us . 7. it is expedient , that they who enter on the work of preaching the gospel , be not only qualified for communion of saints ; but also that , except in cases extraordinary , they give proof of their gifts and fitness for the said work , unto the pastors of churches of known abilites to discern and judge of their qualifications ; that they may be sent forth with solemn approbation and prayer ; which we judge needful , that no doubt may remain concerning their being called to the work ; and for preventing ( as much as in us lieth ) ignorant and rash intruders . iii. of censures . 1. as it cannot be avoided , but that in the purest churches on earth , there will sometimes offences and scandals arise by reason of hypocrisie and prevailing corruption ; so christ hath made it the duty of every church , to reform it self by spiritual remedies , appointed by him to be applied in all such cases ; viz. admonition , and excommunication . 2. admonition , being the rebuking of an offending member in order to conviction , is in case of private offences to be performed according to the rule in mat. 18. v. 15 , 16 , 17. and in case of publick offences , openly before the church , as the honour of the gospel , and nature of the scandal shall require : and if either of the admonitions take place for the recovery of the fallen person , all further proceedings in a way of censure , are thereon to cease , and satisfaction to be declared accordingly . 3. when all due means are used , according to the order of the gospel , for the restoring an offending and scandalous brother ; and he notwithstanding remains impenitent , the censure of excommunication is to be proceeded unto ; wherein the pastor and other elders ( if there be such ) are to lead , and go before the church ; and the brotherhood to give their consent , in a way of obedience unto christ , and unto the elders , as over them in the lord. 4. it may sometimes come to pass , that a church-member , not otherwise scandalous , may sinfully withdraw , and divide himself from the communion of the church to which he belongeth : in which case , when all due means for the reducing him , prove ineffectual , he having hereby cut himself off from that churches communion ; the church may justly esteem and declare it self discharged of any further inspection over him . iv. of communion of churches . 1. we agree , that particular churches ought not to walk so distinct and separate from each other , as not to have care and tenderness towards one another . but their pastors ought to have frequent meetings together , that by mutual advice , support , encouragement , and brotherly intercourse , they may strengthen the hearts and hands of each other in the ways of the lord. 2. that none of our particular churches shall be subordinate to one another ; each being endued with equality of power from jesus christ. and that none of the said particular churches , their officer , or officers , shall exercise any power , or have any superiority over any other church , or their officers . 3. that known members of particular churches , constituted as aforesaid , may have occasional communion with one another in the ordinances of the gospel , viz. the word , prayer , sacraments , singing psalms , dispensed according to the mind of christ : unless that church with which they desire communion , hath any just exception against them . 4. that we ought not to admit any one to be a member of our respective congregations , that hath joined himself to another , without endeavours of mutual satisfaction of the congregations concerned . 5. that one church ought not to blame the proceedings of another , until it hath heard what that church charged , its elders , or messengers , can say in vindication of themselves from any charge of irregular or injurious proceedings . 6. that we are most willing and ready to give an account of our church proceedings to each other , when desired ; for preventing or removing any offences that may arise among us . likewise we shall be ready to give the right hand of fellowship , and walk together according to the gospel rules of communion of churches . v. of deacons and ruling elders . we agree , the office of a deacon is of divine appointment , and that it belongs to their office to receive , lay out , and distribute the churches stock to its proper uses , by the direction of the pastor , and the brethren if need be . and whereas divers are of opinion , that there is also the office of ruling elders , who labour not in word and doctrine ; and others think otherwise ; we agree , that this difference make no breach among us . vi. of occasional meetings of ministers , &c. 1. we agree , that in order to concord , and in any other weighty and difficult cases , it is needful , and according to the mind of christ , that the ministers of several churches be consulted and advised with about such matters . 2. that such meetings may consist of smaller or greater numbers , as the matter shall require . 3. that particular churches , their respective elders , and members , ought to have a reverential regard to their judgment so given , and not dissent therefrom , without apparent grounds from the word of god. vii . of our demeanour towards the civil magistrate . 1. we do reckon our selves obliged continually to pray for god's protection , guidance , and blessing upon the rulers set over us . 2. that we ought to yield unto them not only subjection in the lord , but support , according to our station and abilities . 3. that if at any time it shall be their pleasure to call together any number of us , or require any account of our affairs , and the state of our congregations , we shall most readily express all dutiful regard to them herein . viii . of a confession of faith . as to what appertains to soundness of judgment in matters of faith , we esteem it sufficient , that a church acknowledge the scriptures to be the word of god , the perfect and only rule of faith and practice ; and own either the doctrinal part of those commonly called the articles of the church of england , or the confession , or catechisms , shorter or larger , compiled by the assembly at westminster , or the confession agreed on at the savoy , to be agreeable to the said rule . ix . of our duty and deportment towards them that are not in communion with us . 1. we judge it our duty to bear a christian respect to all christians , according to their several ranks and stations , that are not of our persuasion or communion . 2. as for such as may be ignorant of the principles of the christian religion , or of vicious conversation , we shall in our respective places , as they give us opportunity , endeavour to explain to them the doctrine of life and salvation , and to our uttermost persuade them to be reconciled to god. 3. that such who appear to have the essential requisites to church-communion , we shall willingly receive them in the lord , not troubling them with disputes about lesser matters . as we assent to the forementioned heads of agreement so we unanimously resolve , as the lord shall enable us , to practice according to them . ; finis . advertisement . the reasonableness of reformation , and the necessity of conversion ; the true methods of making all men happy in this world , and in the world to come ; seasonably discoursed , and earnestly pressed upon this licentious age. by j. f. a sincere lover of his native countrey , and the souls of men. printed for tho. cockerill , at the three legs in the poultrey . in twelves , price bound , one shilling . the fiery tryal no strange thing delivered in a sermon preached at charlestown february 15, 1681, being a day of humiliation / by samuel willard teacher of a church in boston in new-england. willard, samuel, 1640-1707. 1682 approx. 45 kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from 13 1-bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : 2007-10 (eebo-tcp phase 1). a66099 wing w2276 estc r33663 13546126 ocm 13546126 100132 this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons 0 1.0 universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase 1, no. a66099) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set 100132) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, 1641-1700 ; 1559:41) the fiery tryal no strange thing delivered in a sermon preached at charlestown february 15, 1681, being a day of humiliation / by samuel willard teacher of a church in boston in new-england. willard, samuel, 1640-1707. [4], 19, [1] p. printed for samuel sewall, boston in new-england : 1682. reproduction of original in the harvard university library. created by converting tcp files to tei p5 using tcp2tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between 1473 and 1700 available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the 25,363 texts created during phase 1 of the project have been released into the public domain as of 1 january 2015. anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. 5% (or 5 pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of 100 instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level 4 of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p5, characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng fast-day sermons. congregational churches -sermons. sermons, american -17th century. 2006-01 tcp assigned for keying and markup 2006-01 aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images 2006-12 ali jakobson sampled and proofread 2006-12 ali jakobson text and markup reviewed and edited 2007-02 pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion the fiery tryal no strange thing ; delivered in a sermon preached at charlstown , february 15. 1681. being a day of humiliation : by samvel willard teacher of a church in boston in new england . matth. 10. 24 : think not that i am come to send peace on earth : i came not to send peace , but a sword . vel resignemus christianam militiam . vel parati simus ad quasvis pro christo tribulationes ferendas . musculus . boston in new-england printed for samuel sewall . 1682. to the reader christian reader , there is nothing , more perplexeth a believer in his race of godliness , than to meet with , & be engaged in such difficultyes as he allotted not upon : those that promised themselves a fair , & easy way in the service of christ , when persecutions arise , anon they are offended in him : our saviour therefore adviseth every man that will undertake to be a christian , first to sit down , & count the c●st . the ensuing discourse will acquaint you with one of the hard lessons of religion ; and tell you what you may rationally propound to your selves , as likely to meet withall between this , & glory : nor is this to discourage , and make you to repent , as of an hard bargain ; ( for an eternal weight of glory , will more than compensate all the tribulations you can go through , in the way to it ) but to call you to preparation : that the newness of it may not amuse you ; nor the greatness of it affright you . how seasonable such a word is , let the times speake . if what is here spoken may in any wise help your faith , it shall not be labour lost ; which that it may , i commend it , & you to the grace of god , who am your servant for christ , samuel willard . 1 pet. iv. xii . beloved , think it not strange concerning the fiery tryal ▪ which is to try you , as though some strange thing hapned to you . this epistle ( as is to be seen by the title or inscription of it ) was directed to christians dispersed and scattered up and down the world. whether they were the remainder of the babylonish captivity , who returned not with their brethren into indea ; or the dispersion occasioned by the cruelty of antiochus , in the dayes of the machabees , of which the apostle paul , heb. 11. 11. 35 &c. or those that fled in the persecution raised soon after the death of stephen : recorded act. 8. beginning ( to each of which interpreters do differently incline ) i determine not . but they were such as laboured under the exercise of manifold afflictions , as appears from chap. 1. v. 6. now , &c. you are in heaviness through many temptations . for their relie● and encouragement our apostle doth in every chapter commix some consolatory and wholsome advise to strengthen and animate them to patience , and help their perfeiting : and in the latter part of this chapter , beginning at this 12th ▪ verse , he more particularly counsels , and quickens them about this matter . these words are introductory to the discourse , and taken by themselves ( and we need not at present look further ) do contain an exhortation or direction , how to entertain the great tryals that were like to come upon them ; or rather a caution and negative injunction , or a prohibition , respecting the observation they should make of , and inference they might draw from those troubles . in the words observe . 1. the compellation , beloved : the afflictions of the saints should not alienate our affections from them , or render them any whit less amiable in our eyes : there is no reason why our love should abate , or hearts grow strange to the people of god , because they are persecuted and hated by the world. jesus christ loves them , and declares them blessed , mat. 5. 10. and if they are beloved by christ , they deserve it of us , if we would be like him : nay their sufferings are for christ , and on that score ought they to be dear to us , as they stand up for his honour : nay and they are for the church of christ too , col. 1. 24. we have our share in the benefit , which challengeth for them a share in our love . 2. the subject matter about which the exhortation is given , viz. the fiery tryal : the word ( 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ) signifies burning , and so it is translated , rev. 18. 9. thus also some render it here . it designs the more sharp and severe exercises of affliction , such as are occasioned by the violent oppression and persecution of enemies , which are frequently in scripture phrase expressed by the metaphor of fire , from the manifold resemblance which is between them : it is here translated fiery tryal , respecting the end which god looks at in ordering it to befal his people , and that is further expressed and amplified in the description ; which is to try you ; the greek is , which befals you for a temptation or tryal , intimating to us the great design of god in all , even the severest afflictions which his children suffer ; nor is it a vain tautologie , but a needful amplification ; flesh and blood being very ready to count of it as rather to destroy , then to prove their faith. 3. the exhortation it self ; think it not strange , the word is , be ye not like to ghests or strangers ▪ and it is used for those which are troubled with admiration at some new and strange thing . the apostle therefore expounds himself at the latter end of the verse : as if some strange thing had hapned unto you .. 2. or , as if a stranger came to you : so some read it : and his meaning is , that they should not entertain it as a thing which they had no expectation of , and were thereupon moved with wonder and surprize at the coming of it . i shall not here endeavour to express all that might usefully be observed from the words , but among many truths that might hence be treated of , make choice of that comprehensive one , for our present meditation . viz. doct. it becomes not the people of god to look upon the fiery tryal which befals the church of christ in the world , as a strange thing . we may take up the explication in three things : 1. what is meant by fiery tryals ? 2. what it is to count them strange ? 3. the ground of the doctrine . 1. what is meant by fiery tryals ? a. tryals in propriety of speech , are such experiments as are made , for the finding out of the nature , qualities , and operation of things , when they are applied , in our speech , to rational agents , they then intend , either an essay or endeavour to draw , and by arguments to perswade men to any thing which we have a design to make use of them in , and so they are called temptations , and in which sence mainly , the devil is called the tempter , because he useth all endeavours to insinuate into , and gain men to follow his suggestions : or else a proof which we are minded to make of the fidelity , sincerity , and constancy which is in a person , that we may know him the better , and so they are more peculiarly called tryals : in this sence it is said , a wise man will try before he will trust ; thus god put abrahams faith and obedience to the tryal , gen. 22. beginning . afflictions in scripture language often bear the name of tryals , because by them proof is made of professors , and men are tried so as to be discovered , oftentimes , whither they be indeed sincere or hypocritical ; and indeed it is one of the best evidences we can have of mens integrity , when these drive them not from , but establish them in their profession . when the epithete fiery , is added to tryals , it serves to denote such afflictions as are the most sharp and severe , and do the most of all put a christians constancy to the test : and among these , the apostle ( as by our context is manifest ) doth here intend , such as are occasioned by persecution ; those things which the people of god are called to suffer in defense of the gospel , against the cruelty of raging enemies ; of which sort are imprisonments , stripes , revilings , exile , confiscation of goods , and the like : these are called fiery , metaphorically , because such is the pain , grief , and trouble which they put the mind of man to , and sometimes his body also , as render them exceeding difficult to bear ; and because as fire they serve to purge and cleanse them from many pollutions : yea , and sometimes they are so termed properly , because the persecutors of the church , do often prosecute the true professors of jesus christ with fire and fagot : and they are called tryals , because ( whatsoever the instruments of them aim at in executing them upon the people of god ) they are designed by god himself , who is the soveraign and supream disposer of all things , to be probationary , and used as a refiners fire to purge out the dross , and not to wast the good mettal which is cast into it , mal. 3. 3. 2. what it is to count them strange ? a. we look upon such things to be strange , which are , 1. things unusual , and with which we have no acquaintance : such things as rarely happen , as scarce come once in an age , are esteemed to be strange things : a man whom we never or seldome saw before , and with whom we have not taken up any familiarity or friendship , is usually counted and called a stranger : familiarity and strangeness are opposed each to other : so that then we count the fiery tryal a strange thing , when we look upon it as a thing unusual , a thing not wont to befal the people of god , a rare thing ; so the phrase is used , luk. 5. 26. we have seen strange things to day : such as ages have not produced the like . 2. things unexpected ; such as come upon us at unawares , which we did not so much as dream of ; it never entred into our thoughts to look for , and apprehend any the least probability or likelihood of such events . those things which we do expect , they are not strange to us when they come , and that because we were in our expectance familiarized with them ; but when they come suddenly , they surprize us : when we expected and promised our selves to live at ease , and not to be molested , and now trouble comes , we are amused : and thus strangeness is opposed to expectance , so it is used ioh. 33. 3. a strange punishment to the workers of iniquity , i. e such as they were secure in their thoughts against , and siezed on them unlooked for . 3. things whereof we cannot give a reason : the cause of them is hidden from our cognizance , and we understand not either whence they come , or what they come for ; strange and admirable are sometimes used synonimically , so the word is used , 1 pet. 4. 4. they think it strange that you run not , &c. i. e. they wonder at it , and think there is no reason for it : now admiration is a suspension of the understanding , when we see an effect , and are not able to dive into the cause of it : when we see that a thing is , and then sit down and consider either whence , or why it is , and cannot satisfie our selves about it , we then wonder , and place it among the number of strange things : and such an opinion had the psalmist conceived of the fiery tryal , psal . 73. 16. when i thought this . i. e. the reason of these dispensations forementioned , it was too painful for me ; his understanding was not able to bear the disquisition . 4. we shew that we look at things as strange , when we carry it to them as unto strangers ; and that is in two things principally ; 1. when we suspect them to come for no good to us , but rather for mischief : jealousie is a frame or disposition , wherewith we do frequently entertain strangers : it is very natural , and therefore usual for us to think of such , that they have some evil design upon us ; which jealousie occasions us to keep a critical eye upon them , and warily to watch all their words and actions , yea their very looks and gestures ; and let them pretend to never so much friendship , yet we are hard of belief , thus hanun suspected davids servants : thus iacob looked upon his afflictions , when he concluded these things are against me , gen. 42. 36. and iob when he uttered that complaint , iob 19. 11. he hath also kindled his wrath against me , and he counteth me to him as one of his enemies . 2. when they are a burden and wearisomeness to us , and we had rather have their room than their company : and this is a fruit of the former ; for when we expect no good by them , but suspect some design of evil upon us from them , it makes their presence a burden and grief to us ; and this puts us upon it to desire , and eagerly long for their departure , and if they tarry long we are quite tired out with them , and would use any course to be rid of them , they are such unwelcome guests to us : thus did hezechiah isai . 33. 13. i reckoned till morning , that as a lion he will break all my bones : from day even to night wilt thou make an end of me . 3. for the ground of the doctrine : or why it becomes not the people of god thus to esteem of the fiery tryal ; this is evident upon a double account : for so to think is both in it self unreasonable , and also prejudicial to the people of god. 1. it is a conclusion very unreasonable ; there is no just reason to be rèndred for such a thought : if we will ponder every circumstance , we shall see it evident that it is not a strange thing in it self , and must therefore be irrationally so judged by us ; for , 1. it is no unusual thing , but very frequent : we have the saints of all ages for examples ; there is a whole cloud of witnesses testifying to this truth : ever since righteous abel lost his life for christ , to this day , there hath been in all ages almost more or less of the fiery tryal upon gods children : it was thus with israel in egypt , who were made to serve in hard labour , and in cruel bondage , and are therefore represented as a bush on fire and not consumed : yea their whole passage through the wilderness , what was it , but a going through fire and water . so the psalmist expresseth it , psal . 66. 12. we went through fire , and through water . and besides the fires kindled upon the church , particular saints have their fires also to try them : sore and sharp afflictions , this is davids complaint in respect of himself , psal . 57. 4. my soul is among lions , and i lie even among them that are set on fire . nay god speaks of his church as a place where he constantly keeps a furnace for their tryal ; hence he makes it a paraphrase upon his name , or one attribute whereby he may be known by us , isai ▪ 31. 9. the lord , whose fire is in zion , and his furnace in jerusalem . 2. it cannot rationally be looked upon as an unexpected thing . this will appear , ( if laying aside all other grounds of it ) we only consider that god hath forewarned his people of it , and told them that it shall be : for either we must think that he speaks not as he intends , and so would deceive us with vain fears , or else that he is ignorant of it , and so we must deny his supream providence in all these events , or else we must take his predictions for evidence of the futurity of it : the scripture frequently puts us in mind of , and counsels us to prepare for such times : it declares it not only as a thing possible , which yet should prevent our security ; or probable , which yet will put a wise man upon expectation ; but future , or a thing which must be , it was one of the last warnings which our saviour christ gave to his disciples , and with which he closeth up his last sermon to them , just before he was taken from them , joh. 16. ult . in this world ye shall have tribulation . the apostles of christ looked upon it as a necessary doctrine to be taught all the people of god , and were therefore careful to instruct them in it in all places where they came , acts 14. 21 , 22. that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdome of god. paul ascerteins timothy , that it is a catholick verity , a thing to be expected by all , as being equally extensive to a godly life , 2 tim. 3. 12 yea and all that will live godly in christ jesus must suffer persecution . so that not to expect it , is an implicite denyal , at least calling in question of the truth of the gospel . 3. neither is the reason of it abstruse or difficult , but if we look into all the causes of it , we may discern sufficient ground for it : for , 1. if we consider the principal agent in it , who is god , ( for it is his sovereign providence , which determineth and disposeth of all the changes which come over his people ) it follows from his infinite wisdome , goodness , and love to his children , so far is it from contradicting any of these , ( whatever prejudices the carnal reasonings of our dark under standings may take up ) as will appear , if we consider the use and improvement which he makes of it : our text informs us , that it is to try them , in which tryal ( like a refiner ) he makes his own people more fit for the use and service of their lord and master . for , 1. by it he burns off the dirt that clave to them : mettal when it is first taken out in ▪ ore from the mineral , hath much of heterogeneous matter ( dirt and filth ) cleaving to it , and that the fire burns off : so do these fiery tryals that come upon the church , they make it too hot for nominal professors to abide by it ; as close as they seemed to cleave to the people of god in a seeming profession before , now they must fall off ; the stony ground is offended when tribulation and persecution ariseth , mat. 13. 21. hypocrites cannot long abide the fiery trial , but when it grows hot upon them , they relinquish their religion , and comply with the world , to avoid trouble . 2. by this also he separates the dross from the good mettal : when the dirt is removed away the mettal indeed looks brighter , and makes a fairer shew , but yet there is a great deal of dross and dregs in it , which render it less precious , and more unserviceable , but the fire melts that out , separares it , and leaves the rest by far more pure : there may possibly be abundantly less of it , but that which is , is of a great deal more value ; the people of god themselves have much of dross and corruption cleaving to them ; and that especially in times of outward peace and prosperity , but when god brings a fiery tryal upon them , it refines and purgeth them : this is the very design of god in these dispensations , isai . 27. 9. by this shall the iniquity of jacob be purged , and all the fruit is to take away sin . and chap. 1. 25. i will turn my hand upon thee , and purely purge away thy dross , and take away thy tin . 3. yea , and by this too , he melts down the good mettal : the fire prepares and fits the mettal by melting to take any form , to be cast into any mold which the founder designs : by sore afflictions the people of god are made more humble , and made pliable to any command of god : they are sometimes stiffe and inflexible in dayes of prosperity , but now they subject themselues to the framing hand of god , and are ready to receiue his stamp and impression , zech. 13. 9. i will refine them as silver , &c. and what then ? why now they shall call on my name , and shall say the lord is my god. 2. if we consider the procuring cause of it , and that is the sin and provocation of his people . sometimes indeed god sends it meerly as probationary , so he did to job , but usually there is something on our part , putting some sort of necessity upon god to proceed in this way with us : the church of god here hath its converse in an evil world , where , by reason of the remainders of indwelling corruption , apt to take the infection of many temptations , they are contracting a great deal of filth and pollution , so that their necessity seemeth to call for a fiery tryal , to burn off their cords of vanity , to purge and purifie them from these corruptions . they that are acquainted with their own hearts , and know how much they have dishonoured god in dayes of peace , quiet , and liberty , will easily judge and acknowledge that it is not without very just ground , and good reason that he often brings trouble and persecution upon them . the prophet therefore pleads it with the people of god , jer. 2. 17. hast thou not procured this unto thy self ? & 4. 18. thy way and thy doings have procured these things unto thee . 3. if we look upon those that are the instrumental causes of it , which are satan and wicked men , neither herein will it appear wonderful ; either , 1. that they are ready and forward to afflict and persecute the people of god : he must needs be strangely unacquainted with their native malice , that thinks it is a strange thing : it hath been a truth from the beginning , that the world ever hated the church : they hated christ first , and thence it is no wonder if they hate his people too : our saviour christ to shew what entertainment his disciples are to expect in the world , compares his people to sheep among wolves , mat. 10. 16 behold i send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves . and the wolf seeks no other quarrel against the sheep , but that he is a sheep , and if he can , will devour him , right or wrong : to be a servant of jesus christ , a sincere professor of the gospel , is enough to stir up the hate and malice of the world : caius sejus bonus homo , sed ●hristianus , if they can in no other point charge them , yet this very name renders them odious : its charge enough if they can charge them in the matters of their god : and we may as well wonder , why serpents hate men , as why the old serpents seed hate the seed of the woman . nor , 2. that god useth them as instruments , neither is this any wonder , since they are the fittest materials to make his rods of : these are rods which will smart most : their hatred makes them most ready to afflict and chastise the church withal : it is true , if they were principal agents , and left to act their own pleasure they were very unfit , for they think only of the ruine and desolation , but not of the tryal and reformation of the people of god ; but as instruments in the hand of god , they will make it smart , but cannot do any hurt : agen , they are therein the fittest to make rods of , that when god hath done with them , and chastened his people by them , they may be thrown into the fire : yea in this respect god makes eminent discovery of his infinite wisdome in the choice of instruments , because in this way he takes an advantage to prove the reality of his love to his people , then when he is most angry with them . it is therefore worthy our diligent observation , that though god be never so angry with his people , and cause his wrath to burn never so high against them , yet then he so loves them , that he will be avenged on the very instruments of his displeasure upon them , and therefore makes choice of his , and his churches enemies to punish them withal : why doth god call babylon to come down and sit in the dust ? isai . 57. 1. we have the reason rendred in ver . 6. i was wrath with my people , and gave them into thy hand , and thou hast shewn them no mercy . though babylon did no more then what god both intended and threatned : there cannot be a more manifest token of men hated by god , and appointed to destruction , then to be raised up to be persecutors and oppressors of the church and people of god , whatever their iniquities and provocations may have been . 4. if we consider the end of these fiery tryals , and that ariseth from the improvement which god , who is the prime agent in them , makes thereof , and it is to be discovered and observed by us in the operation ; the substance of it is , it is to make his people more humble , more holy , more serviceable to the glory of his own great name , more profitable in their generation , and better fitted and prepared for the kingdome of glory , moses summs up all briefly , deut. 8. 16. where having given an account of the difficulties , and fiery tryals which israel met with in the wilderness , he certifies them that the design of all these was only this , that he might humble thee , and that he might prove thee , to do thee good in thy latter end . 2. it is prejudicial to the people of god : for them to place such an account upon the fiery tryal is much to their disadvantage : for that , 1. it tempts us to rob god of that glory which is his due , and we ought to give him in the fires : god expects to be glorified by his people , but whiles we look with amazement , and these things astonish us , , we are more ready to dishonour him , by calling his wisdome , love , goodness , truth , &c. into question , if we count the fiery tryal strange , we shall answerably have strange thoughts of god , and hard thoughts of religion , so he , psal . 73. 13. & 77. 8 , 9. 2. it will wonderfully weaken our faith in god , our trust and reliance on his promises , it confounds faith when a soul knows not what to make of things : while jonah is amazed , he begins to draw up a conclusion of desperation , then i said i am cast out of thy sight , jon. 2. 4. faith must have its evidence , heb. 11. 1. which is lost in these transports . 3. it will fill the soul full of jealousies and strange suspitions , ready to say of every cross and trouble , this is certainly against me : he will take all for enemies , and think god so too , and say as he , thou settest me for thine enemie . 4. it will make the tryal by these means far more grievous and hard to bear , it will fret and vex the soul , raise disquietments and discontents ; we shall behave our selves like ephraim , as a bullock unaccustomed to the yoke , jer. 31. 28. here is the very reason of all the unruly carriages of the people of god at any time under their afflictions , because they have not a right apprehension and opinion of them . 5. and from all these , we render our selves exceeding uncapable of receiving counsel , or comfort : if god send us advise , we cannot hear it , if consolation , we cannot receive it : thus we read , exod. 6. 9. moses spake unto the children of israel , but they hearkened not unto moses , for anguish of spirit , and for cruel bondage . now all these things damnifie us , & so prevent that good which otherwise we might derive to our selves from these exercises , how sharp soever . use . to wave other things , let me apply this truth for the helping of our faith unto a suitable improvement of the fiery tryal which any of the people of god are at this day labouring under ; and which we our selves also have weighty reasons to live in the continual expectation of ; that so we may not so think of it , or entertain it as a strange thing : and to that end that we may have a right judgement , and soul satisfying apprehension of it , let us diligently and prudently compare the works of gods providence , with those intimations which are given us in his word , and it will afford us a true and a full discovery of the true meaning of these things , and that in both respects . 1. it may satisfie us in regard of that sore persecution which is at this day upon divers of the protestant churches abroad : we hear of many sad and sorrowful calamities which by the malice of satan , and rage of men , are brought upon that cause , and are ready to sit down as men amused , wondering why this is , and wherefore god suffers it , how jesus christ can bear it : let me assure you , it is not because god doth not own and approve of that cause ; it is his own , he hath born , and will bear witness to it ; it is the cause which shall stand when all other shall come tumbling down into ruine : nor is it because god hath cast off his people whom he hath chosen ; for his love to his saints is unchangeable , inviolable : nor is it because he approves of , or takes delight in the contrary prevailing interest , though they indeed make their boast of their successes , and pretend the offering up the liberties and lives of gods people , to be a sacrifice of thanksgiving therefore ; no ; gods curse is on them and their cause , and in due time their foot shall slide , it is then none of these ; but , 1. the scripture tells us of a time wherein satan is to be let loose , in which he will rage extreamly against the church , rev. 1● . 12. and these are some of those dayes wherein these things are to have their accomplishment , as relating to the persecutions which antichrist was to raise and continue against the saints of the most high. it is true that the rage and malice of satan and his instruments are alwayes eagerly bent to ruine the church ; yet are they tyed up by the sovereign almighty power of god , who stilleth the noise of the seas , and the tumults of the people ; yet if he please to give them leave , and lengthen their chain of restraint , as he did in jobs case , they will vent it to the utmost of their advantage and opportunity : it is a certain truth , that satan and his agents have no other stint or bounds of their malice then the limits of divine permission , they ever do as much as they can , & that they do no more is because god hath an hook in their nosthrils ; now god doth sometimes , for ends infinitely wise , give them leave to do a great deal , and vent abundance of their spleen against his people . 2. god wills that at sometimes the truth be sealed to by the sufferings of his own people , as well as owned by their profession , that he may make the fulfilling of that truth gloriously resplendent , mat. 16. 18. the gates of hell shall not prevail against it . the truth of the gospel is never more honoured in the world , then by faith and patience of suffering saints ; they then glorifie god , and his name is magnified , when his honour , and the profession of his name , and vindication of his truth is more dear and precious to them then their own lives , and they can readily sacrifice them , in the defense of it : hereby their faith appears in its vigour , and it is seen how powerful the spirit of god in them is ▪ the tryal of their faith is a most precious thing , better then that of gold , 1 pet. 1. 6. 7. and herein the excellency of divine love makes it self eminent , in that many waters cannot quench it . 3. it is certain that the protestant churches abroad in the world have given god a great deal of provocation , by manifold enormities and scandals that have discovered themselves shamefully amongst them . if the judgement of those be right , who conjecture the seven churches in asia , to whom john wrote , rev. 2 , & 3. do stand for an emblem of the uarious estate of the church to the worlds end , they seem now in these dayes to be fallen under the last and worst paettrn , lukewarm laodicea : it is too true and manifest , that there is but a little true zeal stirring for the glory of god ; though there be abundance of formality : there is but a very little of the power of godliness to be seen , but a great many wickednesses growing and abounding : such prophanation of gods holy sabbaths , that in many places they are disowned , and the morality of the fourth commandment not only called into dispute , but wholly renounced ; abundance of covetousness , uncleanness , prophaness , and many other provoking sins , such as an holy god , will not , cannot bear in a people that are called by his name : they therefore stood in need of a fiery tryal to purge and refine them : they have gathered abundance of dirt and dross , and it is not a small fire that will burn it off , and melt it out : and therefore at such times god is wont to set up his furnace , and provide hot coals for it , cruel and bloody instruments , to execute his just displeasure upon his own people by : thus he threatens israel in case of apostasie , deut. 28. 49 , 50. the lord shall bring upon thee a nation , &c. a nation of fierce countenance , which shall not regard the person of the old , and shew favour to the young . 4. there is a time of reformation expected , and waited for by the people of god , and it is hoped not to be far off ; and this is the very way in which god hath purposed to bring it about : when the lord speaks of the happy reformation of the people of the jews , he propounds such a method as this to do it in , zech. 13. 8 , 9. two parts therein shall cut off , and die , and the third part shall be left therein , and i will bring the third part through the fire , &c. gods work of reformation , as it is a glorious , so also it is a terrible work , a work which but a few will be able to endure : it is very probable that two thirds when they come near the fire , and begin to feel it scorch , will not bear it , but seek to avoid it : and thus we hear of many thousands in france that are daily renouncing the protestant cause , and coming over to popery , through fear and cowardize : and the other third part they must pass through the fire that they may be reformed , that when they are tryed , they may come forth as gold : and is there any strange thing in all this ? hence therefore , that we may be settled and not shaken , let us carefully build upon these conclusions . 1. that the fiery tryal is intended only to try the saints . it is not brought to destroy them , but only to refine and purifie them : were believers thoroughly perswaded of what god meaneth , by these things , they would not be so liable to those frights and amazements which distract and disturb them : our text fortifies this conclusion , restraining them to this proper end and purpose . 2. that god overrules all instruments : yea , though , as they are rational agents , and causes by counsel of their own actions , they design nothing but mischief , yet he will use them as meer instruments in his hand , not to gain their own projected ends , but his , which they neither know nor design : they shall but do his pleasure , and not their own , isai . 10 7. ah assyrian ! the rod of my anger : what can a rod do without an hand to manage it ? no more can they but as god improves them : we look too much on men , and think their power is great , and rage implacable , and now what are we not to expect to suffer ? but remember , their wrath shall but serve to praise god , and the remainder he will restrain . 3. that gods people , though in the furnace , are yet very precious to him ; yea that he chuseth them in the furnace : israel in affliction is often tempted to say , my god hath forgotten me ; but god assures us that it is far otherwise : they are then as tender to him as the sucking child is to the pitiful mother : you see how god thus expostulates the case with zion in this regard , isai . 49 , 14 , 15 , 16. 4. that the fiery tryal shall not be alwayes , but only for the appointed time , until it hath wrought out gods gracious ends , and then deliverance shall come : god will not suffer the rod of the wicked to be alwayes in the lot of the righteous , he knows that if he should , the spirit which he hath given us , would fail and faint ; he hath therefore promised that he will not contend for ever , nor be alwayes wroth , isai . 57 17. 5. that during all that season wherein his people are in the furnace , he sits by and tends it . he sits as a refiner , mal. 3. 3. sitting notes a fixed posture ; intimating that god doth not only come now and then , and occasionally take notice how the fire burns , and mettal melts , having mean while other things to divert and divide his care ; but that he makes it his work and business to tend it , and therefore tarries constantly by it ; he throws in every coal with his own hand , and not one coal more then is meet and useful for the work . he useth his skill to make it melt down , and become fit for his mold ; he humbleth his people , and reforms them by their tryals , puts a virtue into them , or gives a blessing with them , whereby effectually and powerfully their corrections become instructions to them , and they are made the better by them : yea they are fitted and prepared to be taken out of the furnace again , and be vessels of honour , imployed in the service of their lord and master . from hence therefore we may be directed both how and what to pray at this day in the behalf of the persecuted church of christ abroad in the world. 1. how to pray for them , i. e. in faith ; when a thing seems strange to us , it stirs up unbelief : when men cannot tell what to make of these providences which are in their view , they know not how to believe ; they know not where to fix their faith : but when a child of god sees the evidence of things , he hath now the reason of his confidence before him . 2. what to pray : it will teach us not to over hasten god in his work , but to leave him to his leisure , who in infinite wisdome knows what he hath to do : when the fiery tryal looks strange , all we can think of , is the removal and taking of it away , and we cannot tell how to pray to god for any thing else , because we can see no good in the affliction : but when we are acquainted with the author , nature , and end of all these tryals , it will direct us first of all to pray that god would sanctifie it for the cleansing of his churches ; that he would purifie sons of levi and reform the protestant profession in the world : the church most of all needs our prayers at this day , on this account ; and then we may wait upon god for their deliverance . 2. it may advise us not to think it a strange or unlikely thing , that we our selves may be brought under the fi●ry tryal , i am sure there are many awful symptomes of it , and more from time to time : yea we are likely enough to pull it down upon our own heads by our foolish divisions , and strange indiscretions : and ready enough we are to censure and charge one another in this kind ; but there is an higher hand moving all these lesser wheels : and if we would look aright , the thing which should mostly aw and affect us is this , that we are become degenerate , we have backslidden and gone aside from god , we have lost our first love , we are grown dirty and drossie , obstinate and hard-hearted , and unwilling to be reclaimed : if therefore god should withdraw from us , and leave our publick affairs to miscarry in our hands , i would say it is of the lord , that he might fulfil the words of his ministers , that told and warned us of dayes of great calamity approaching ; because we would not hear them , and return to our god : and let all such as fear god ponder of these things ; look for , and see abundant reason to expect a winnowing time , a time of burning , a day of great tryal , that when it comes , you may not be taken at unawares , or ( judging it a strange thing ) be surprized with undue terrors and frights ; but may with quietness and patience submit to the work of god in it : so shall you endure the tryal , and not be burnt up , as chaffe and drosse , by it , but be brought out of it again with joy and glorying , inasmuch as it shall be accounted to you for a fi●●ing up of the sufferings of christ , and shall contribute very very much to the compleating and enlargement of your eternal joyes . finis . friendly reader . the desolating judgements by water and fire , with which god hath , and intends to cleanse the world ; are in scripture brought together , and made to illustrate each other . wherefore be not offended at the remaining page , as if its service were unseasonable , and out of place , whenas it relates ( as well as it can ) what the gazetts report concerning the terrible invndation that the low-countryes lately smarted under ; and which was looked upon as one awful consequent of the late formidable blazing star. toward the latter end of january last , there having been for many dayes much rain , and a violent storm , sundry of the united provinces , viz. holland , zealand , brabant , flanders , felt the direful effects thereof : for the sea with wonderful impetuosity broke through and over the banks ▪ which th●se low-countries are defended with , unto the unexpressible distress and amazement of the inhabitants . many villages were reduced to b● wholly under water : even in great cities the waters ore flowed thei● streets , and were divers foot higher than has been fo●merly known ; so that boats passed to and fro , where men were wont to walk . persons were forced to barricado their houses , and ge● into their upper rooms ; yea ( in some places ) to the tops of their houses , where ( t is said ) some were famished to death . in some churches the water was above eight foot high ; and corps were taken out of their graves , and car●ied away therewith . hundreds of dead bodies were seen daily floating down the river , to antwerp . many stately fortifications were spoiled , and strong walls beaten down . sundry places now over thrown , cannot in many years be recovered ; and some never . the lesse ▪ of one city have ●●en judged to amount to some millions . the sufferings of merchants cannot be related . innumerable cattel were destroyed . some great mens estates were laid wholly under water : noble and w●althy families are brought to poverty . if we are not misinformed , above fourscore lands and polders have been overwhelmed . and the dutch have lost more by this flood , than by all their late grievously expensive wars . and ( which is more tremendous ) a vast number of people have lost their lives . in some islands , most of the inhabitants ; and in one polder no less than a thousand have been drowned . in one land where about a thousand dwelt ; but one ( like a job's messenger ) escaped death . yea 't is generally said , that near twenty thousand perished by this overflowing scourge . the cause of god and his people in new-england as it was stated and discussed in a sermon preached before the honourable general court of the massachusets colony, on the 27 day of may, 1663, being the day of election at boston / by john higginson ... higginson, john, 1616-1708. 1663 approx. 70 kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from 15 1-bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : 2009-10 (eebo-tcp phase 1). a43755 wing h1955 estc w37706 13046131 ocm 13046131 96918 this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons 0 1.0 universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase 1, no. a43755) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set 96918) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, 1641-1700 ; 742:10) the cause of god and his people in new-england as it was stated and discussed in a sermon preached before the honourable general court of the massachusets colony, on the 27 day of may, 1663, being the day of election at boston / by john higginson ... higginson, john, 1616-1708. [4], 24 p. printed by samuel green, cambridg [sic, mass.] : 1663. reproduction of original in huntington library. created by converting tcp files to tei p5 using tcp2tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between 1473 and 1700 available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project 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xml conversion the cause of god and his people in new-england , as it was stated and discussed in a sermon preached before the honourable general covrt of the massachvsets colony , on the 27 day of may 1663. being the day of election at boston . by john higginson pastor of the church of christ at salem . mat. 22.21 . and jesus said unto them , render unto cesar the things that are cesars : and unto god the things that are gods. 1 pet. 2.17 . honour all men , love the brotherhood , fear god , honour the king. 1 chron. 12.32 . and of the children of issachar , which were men that had understanding in the times , to know what israel ought to do . cambridg , printed by samuel green 1663. christian reader , the curse of god and his people ( which is the subject of this following pious and elabourate discourse ) never 〈◊〉 more ●●lp from heaven , nor more servant prayers from earth , to be put up to the god of heaven , for then a●●aming of it , t●●● 〈◊〉 this time . for some there are ( and not a sin ) that are so engaged to their own interests , that le● the cause of god and his people , sink or swim , they care not , so their own ●nds be compassed , and their own designe & projects may find sure foo●●ng : and these are your self-loving worldly politici●ns , that are of this world , as christ speaks and savour nothing but the things of the world , and seek 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and not 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , that seek their own and not the things of jesus christ . others there are so dissolute and prophane , & are risen up to such as height of impiety , that they do no more regard this cause , than the air● under then ●●et , they are so around in drink & other sensual deli●hts his , and are so heightned in their oaths & blasphe●●● and other abominations , tha● god and his peoples c●●se are not in their thoughts : 〈◊〉 if at any time this c●●se come into them 〈◊〉 as , it is only to cast the foulest pers●●●● they can upon it , and to be spatter 〈◊〉 with the ba●●st obliquies and 〈◊〉 speeches that the devil & their own cursed hearts can invent , and to persecute it wi●● tongue & 〈◊〉 and heart & hand to the highest degree of persecution , even unto bloud and sl●ughter : though when they have done all that ever they 〈◊〉 , they shall not be able to 〈◊〉 the cause nor the faithfull servants of christ that ●●●ck 〈◊〉 ; but as the primitive believers said of persecuting nero , nero may kill us , but he cannot hurt us ; so may we say now . others there are that seem to own this cause and adventure much this way , and may not only be willing to lose their liberty & estates , & the favour of great freinds , but go further also , yet afterward turn away & draw back , and these are hypocrites , which are either taken with the eye-lids of the aluring harlot the world , in the profits , pleasures & honours of it , or else are afraid of her frownes & discouragements , after all their former sufferings : they have ventured so far , but dare go no further , and so lise all they have wrought , and suffer in vain , these are not true to the ca●se of god and his people , and by their puting away a good conscience , and wan● of self-denial , make shipwrack of the faith and cause we speak of . only there is a very few sincere ones that hold their own , and in the worst times deale p●●●ently , and discern both time and judgment , and are valiant for this c●●se . all which duty weighed and seriously considered , no wonder that this holy man of god being guided by his spirit , made choise of this subject to preach upon , in that great assembly at the court of election , now in these dayes wherin so many turne their backs of god , and set themselves so desparately against h●● , & his peoples cause . i was to star● us all up to besiege & beleag●● the ●●r●e of grace now in th●se last and pe●il●us dayes and times , to awake & stand to maintaine this cause , & to shew forth his almighty power in crushing all the designes , and out-plotting all the plots of sathan & his instruments that undermine this cause , and the lord help us all to attend what god by his spirit speaks to us , and now if ever , to pray & give god no rest , ●ll this cause be maintained against the faces & forces of all its enemies . the sermon when preached was acceptable to all , and found general approbation among all the wise-hearted and godly , so far as we have heard . reader thou hast i● to peruse , read it , understand thy time according to it , let the cause of god and his people lie neerer to thine heart then ever , and let thy so●l awake more to be a prince with god to prevaile , that this cause may be main a●ed & upheld against all the powers of darkness , and all the conspiracies of men on earth , and devills in hell , that it may be victorious , & ride in triumph till christ come , who will own is before the whole world , and them that have stood for it , though it have cost them dear from those that have been the d●spisers of it . we have no more to say , but to desire from our hearts that the blessing of heaven may go along with the labour of his servant in this work , and that be & we , and whosoever read it , may find this fruit that we may tread in this wise kings steps , who prayed so fervently , that god would maintain his cause & his peoples alwayes , as the matter shall require ; prayer of faith opens all dores , prevailes for all blessings , hath such power with god that it never comes away empty , but as that renowned emperour said , that he never sent any su●er ●●d w●● from his presence , so we may be sure that the lord will do to them that sue to him , giving them all that they seek to him for ( especially in maintaining his own and his peoples cause , which he cannot s●e forsaken ) and will not send his suiters and suppliants sad away from him , they are bidden to come with boldnesse to ●he throne of grace . one word more & we have done , jesus christ that great favourite by whom both our persons and prayers are accepted , and this cause comes to be maintained for the much incense that he offers up with the prayers of all saints , prevailes ever for us , & this cause when it and we the honour of both are laid most in the dust . to this lord jesus , with the blessed father and eternal spirit , be glory and power everlasting . amen . thine in him who is ●o● love and life , john wilson , senior . samuel whit●ng . the cause of god and his people in new-england , stated and discussed . 1 king. 8.57 , 58 , 59. the lord our god be with us , as he was with our fathers , let him not leave us nor forsake us ; that be may encline our hearts unto him , to walke in all his wayes , and to keep his commandements , his statutes and his judgments which he commanded our fathers . and let these my words wherewith i have made supplication before the lord , be nigh unto the lord our god day and night , that he maintain the cause of his servant , and the cause of his people israel at all times , as the matter shall require . in the beginning of this chapter , we read of a general assembly of the representative body of the people of israel : thus in verse 1. then solomon assembled the elders of israel , and all the heads of the tribes , the chiefe of the fathers of the children of israel : and verse 2 , 3. and all the men of israel assembled themselves , and all the elders of israel came . the special end of this great assembly is shewed in verse 6. they brought in the ark of the covenant of the lord into his place , in the house of the lord. upon this occasion solomon makes a large prayer for the welfare and prosperity of the people of israel which begins at the 22 and continues to the 54. verse , wherin he mentions all the common cases which might in changes of time befall the people of israel , and he commends their condition to the lord for special mercy & help in such cases as are expressed in the 37. verse ; if ne●● be famine , or pestilence , or warrs or captivity , if there be these or such like cases , and thy people israel do repent and confess thy name , and pra●● ; then hear thou in heaven and forgive , and do for them , and hearken to them in all that they call upon ●hee for . this is the sūme of his prayer . at the conclusion of which he pronounceth a solemn blessing upon the congregation verse 55 ; he stood and blessed all the congregation of is●●● . this blessing of solomon consists in three things . 1 a thankfull acknowledgment of present and former mercy , that hitherto the lord had given them rest . verse 56 ; blessed be the lord that 〈◊〉 given ●●st 〈◊〉 people israel 2. a renewed prayer for a threefold blessing to be farther granted , bo●●at the present and for future times . 1 and that he prayes for the gracious presence of god , even such a gracious presence of god with them as their fathers had enjoyed . verse 57 ; the lord our god be with us 〈…〉 with our father ; and because his heart was much in this , therefore he repeats it againe , let him not leave us nor forsake us . 2. he payes so divine assistance verse 58. that he may encline our hearts unto him to walk in his wayes , and to keep his commandements , which he commanded our fathers . 3. his third request is for divine protection verse 59. let these my prayers be high to the lord our god , that his 〈◊〉 the cause of his people israel , which is amplyfied by the end of it ; that all the people of the 〈◊〉 may know that the lord is god and that there is none el●●● verse 60. 3. and th●n the last particular wherein he blesseth the people is , by exhorting them to upright waking with god. let your heart therefore be perfect with the lord our god , ●o walk in his statutes and to keep his commandements as at this a●y , verse 61. the text ( as you see falls within the compass of solomons blessing upon the representatative body of the people of israel . from the whole you may please to take notice of this observation in the generall , which i shall but briefly touch upon . doct. the lords gracious presence with his people inclining their hearts to keep his commandements , and maintaining their cause ; is a sufficient means to establish the welfare of such a people , even at their own hearts can wish . for thus did solomon bless the heads of the tribes of israel , and he had the hearts of the whole congregation going along with him , that if the lord would but grant his presence with them , his assistance of them , and his protection over them , they had enough , they could have no more , they could be no better in this world . and if we our selves now might have our wish , if the lord should say to us as ahas●●rus to esther , what is thy petition ? or as he said sometime to solomon , ask what i shall give thee ; what could any of us , or all of us desire more then this ? that the lord our god would be with us , as he hath been with our fathers , that he would incline our hearts to keep his commandements which be commanded our fathers , and that he would maintaine his own and his peoples cause amongst us : what can be desired and enjoyed by us more then this ? for , doth not immanuel , god with us , comprehend our whole good ? and the keeping of gods commandements containe our whole duty● and is not the lords maintaining the cause of his people enough to keep off whatever might interrupt or hinder us in the performing this duty , and enjoying that good wherein the utmost happyness of a people on this side heaven doth consist ? let these requests ( therefore ) dwell upon the hearts of all the lords people , let us bear them continually upon our hearts before the lord , that as hitherto , so still , he may graunt unto all his servants , both magistrates , ministers , and people , his gracious presence , divine assistance , and divine protection in the times that are come upon us . this is the summe of all that we need or can receive , or can desire whilest we are here tossed in the troublesome sea of this world , passing to the haven of eternall rest . but i shall not further insist upon this . it is another doctrine which i mainly intend from the latter part of the 59 verse . that he maintaine the cause of his people at all times as the matter shall require . there are two things need a little opening here . 1. what is meant by the cause of his people israel . 2. what is meant by the lords maintaining the cause of his people at all times as the matter shall require . 1. by [ because of his people ●r●● ] i understand the same which in other scriptures is called the cause of g●● , p●●l 74. ●2 . arise o god and plead thy own cause . so that there is a cause of god in the world , ( mark i beseech you ) there is a cause which is god own cause : a●●se o lord and plead h●● own ●use . and if you please but to cast●y ur●ey upon two or three passages of that psalm , we need go no further to understand clearly , what is the cause of god 〈◊〉 20. have respect unto the covenant , the cause of god is the cause of his covenant it is also the cause of his temple the dwelling place of his name , verse 7. and further , it is the cause of his church , verse 2. remember thy congregation which thou hast purchased of old , thine inheritance which thou hast redeemed , this mount sion wherein thou hast dwel● , i. e. his church , and so in the 8 verse you read of the synagogues of god in the land. now the very same was the cause of his people israel , for the speciall end of the great assembly mentioned in this chapter , it was to bring in the ark of the covenant into the house of the lord : by virtue of which covenant the lord was their god and they were his people ; and , the cause of god was theirs , and their cause was his ; the cause of god & his people israel was one and the same , and that was the cause of religion according to the word of god. therefore in the text here solomon prayes that the hearts of his people might be enclined to walk in gods wayes and to keep his commandements . againe , it is observable , the word rendred cause here in the text is translated [ right ] in the margine of the 45. & 49. verses , that he maintain the right of his people , there is a right unto house and land and the like , but there is a jus divinum , a speciall divine right which the people of israel had unto the one true religion , and a liberty annexed unto that right that none could lawfully hinder them from enjoying all that belonged to the service of god. so that ( in one word ) the cause of his people israel was right from god , and liberty from god , to keep gods commandements in matters of religion . this was the cause of god and israel then , and i hope it will appear anon , that the very same is the cause of god and his people now . 2. what is meant by [ the lords maintaining this cause at all times as the matter shall require ] he had made the same request twice before verse 45. & 49. that he maintain his peoples cause ; here he mentions it againe the third time , that he maintain the cause of his people israel , with an addition of this further expression , at all times as the matter shall require . he had before in his large prayer comprehended all the common cases which might fall out ; but because there might be other cases which he could not foresee , or they might be otherwise circumstanced , when the cause of israel might be so endangered , as there would not be any help in the ey of reason in the sight of man , therefore he commends the cause of his people israel to the lord himselfe , and leaves it with him , and beseecheth him , that he by his prerogative would maintain the cause of his people , even as the matter should require . and those words in the text [ at all times ] are in the margine rendred [ the thing of a day in his day ] i. e. not onely in the day of prosperity when things go smoothly on ; but in the dayes of adversity , in the hirracano's of tempestuous times , when it is a day of trouble and rebuke , and blasphemy , as is was in hezekiahs time , isai . 37.3 . in a day of perplexity and treading down , isai 22.5 . in such a day as this , the cause of god and israel is committed to the lord himself that he would maintain it . and there is an emphasis to be observed in that word [ he ] that he maintain it , when there is none else that will , or can , or knowes how : implying the need ( the extream need ) that the people of israel might sometimes have for the lord himselfe to maintain their cause above all that themselves , or any else should be able to doe . so that the point of doctrine which i would commend unto the consideration of this present assembly from hence , is this . doct. the times may be such , and the case may be such , as the maintaining of the cause of religion , may need and require more then ordinary help from the lord himself . the times may be so perillous , and the case so circumstanced , and the cause of religion so endangered , as it may be above the wisedom of man to direct , or the hand of man to help : then there is work for jehovah himselfe , for him to maintain his own and his peoples cause , you see the point : a little for the proof . it is many times the cry of the church of god in the world , give us help from trouble o lord , for vaine is the help of man , psal . 108. last . and our help is in the name of the lord , who made the heavens and the earth , psal 124. last . there is creating wisedom & power and goodness with him , that is god over all , blessed for evermore , there and from thence alone is the help of his people when it s no where else to be seen upon earth . i shall add no more but that in isai . 63.5 . i looked and there was none to help , and i wondred that there was none to uphold , therefore mine own arm brought salvation ●●ne , and my fury it upheld mee . our saviour christ is here brought in speaking of himself , not as chri●●nall , but as christ mysticall , christ and ●is church as be●…ers , engaged together in the same cause , and the cause of christ and his church is represented here as in a dispairing sinking case , i looked and there was none to help , i wondred that there was 〈◊〉 to uphold : what then ? why , therfore mine own arm brought salvation ●o me : the church when sinking , yet saved by christ , the cause of god and his people when ready to be overturned , overwhelmed ; yet then ●reserved , secured maintained , by the outstretched a●m of a blessed ●aviour : implying , the case may be such , and the matter may so require , that no less then the infinite wisedom , and good pleasure of of omnipotencie it selfe can do the deed . this may suffice for the proof . there is a three f●ld reason may convince us of the truth of the doctrine . 1. from the weakness of man. 2. from the malice of the devil . 3. from the providence of god. reas . 1. the first reason is taken from the weakness of men , from the inability of gods own people , who are affected unto this cause , and engaged in it , but are not able to maintain it . the best of the saints have flesh as well as spirit , they have something of the old man , as well as of the new ; they know but in part , and are sanctified but in part : and hence many weaknesses in managing the cause of god. there is a mixture of hypocrites amongst the sincere servants of god , who pretend unto this cause as well as they ; and hence many times not onely weakness but wickedness is inter-woven into the fairest pretences to the cause of god. there are various apprehensions , affections , and passions , amongst good men . moses the servant , and aaron the saint of the lord , are sometimes unadvised : and when they are most upright , when they lead the people according to the ●kilfulness of their hands , and integrity of their heart , yet then traduced , reproached , opposed , et tantum n●n , overpoured by a murmuring people , and there were men of renown and famous in the congregation , that would not submit unto gods order . sometimes ( alas ) there is a sharp contention between paul and barnabas : and godly peter doth not ever walk with a right foot : and blessed paul when most faithfull and true , is under evill surmises , as a deceiver . there is names and parties of men , dividing christ amongst them : some departing from the faith , others led aside from the simplicity of the gospel , on the right hand , and on the left , and many ( in the last dayes very many ) that have the form but deny the power of godlyness . hence the cause of religion much obscured and ready to be spoyled in the hands of those that profess to be the lovers of it . that is the first reason . reas . 2. taken from the malice of the devil , and his instrumentie satan from the beginning hath had an old grudg against the seed of the woman , and he never wanted instruments , who either by force or fraud or both , have done what mischief they could against the church and cause of god. thus in the story of exodus , pharoah at first works , wisely to undermine , afterwards he works proudly to overtake and destroy the israel of god. thus also in psal . 83.1 , 2 , 3. keep not silence o god , for ●thine enemies make a tumult , they have consulted together , they have said , come let us cut them off that the name of israel be had no more in remembrance ; and then there is mention made of gebal , ammon , and amalek and many others . and in the time of ezra , and nehemiah , no sooner had zerubbabel and joshua and the rest of the poor people of israel begun to reform and set themselves about the work of the lord , but sathan stood up to resist them , as it is in zech. 3.1 . & he had instruments at hand presently sanballat and tobia , with their complices , nehem. 4.11 . and our adversaries said they shall neither see , nor know , till we be in the midst amongst them , and slay them and cause their work to cease , thus also in ezr. 4.9 . you read of rehum the chancellor , and shi●shi the scribe , with the rest of their companions , pleading much the damage and dishonour of the king as in verse 13. and when they had got a commission they went up in hast unto jerusalem to cause the work to cease , and in the verse 23. they made them cease by force and power , though it was but for a time as it appeares afterwards . and if you look into rev. 12.12 . you shall find there in relation to the last times , it is said , wee to the inhabitants of the earth , and of the sea , for the devil is come down amongst you , and his rage is great , because he hath but a short time , the shorter the time the fiercer the rage of sathan against all that keep the commandements of god , and the faith of jesus ; & where ever he can prevail , down goes the divine authority of the scriptures , and up goes the commandements of men in the worship of god : and all that will not doe , must suffer , and all that bear witness to truth and holiness , must be in sackcloth until the time of the end. now from hence ( againe ) the cause of religion is much endangered by the haters of it . that is the second reason . reas . 3. the last reason is taken from afflicting providence , he ( the great god ) changeth the times and the seasons , dan. 2.21 . the history of the church in all ages hath informed us of this , that after a time of peace , comes a time of trouble , after a time of l●berty ( to be as good as men would be and as they should be ) there comes a time of restraint : and sometimes even in the valley of vision there is a day of perplexitie and treading down , and that from the lord god of hostes , as it is in isai . 22.5 . and though it hath been questioned whether dioclesians persecution or julians toleration were more pernicious to the church of god , yet without question neither of these was without the providence of god. when the people of god know not how to use their peace and liberty , when they have contracted the guilt of the sins of such times , it is but righteous with the lord to bring them into bondage , that they may know the service of the lord with such a kind of knowledg as adam had after his fall , to know good by the want and evil by the feeling of it , by terrible thing● in righteousness wilt thou answer us o god , who yet art the god of our salvation and the confidence of such as are in the ends of the earth , psal . 65.5 . but from hence also the cause of religion comes to be in the same condition as the ship in which the disciples went when christ was asleep , there came down such a storm upon the l●●● , and they were so covered with the waves , and in such jeopardy , they were faine to cry out unto him , master save us or we perish . gather up the reasons briefly . if the lovers of the cause of religion be so unable to preserve it , if the haters of it be so sedulous to destroy it , and if the lord himselfe seem to withdraw from it ; then it is no wonder if the times be such , and the case be such , as the maintaining of the cause of religion doth need and require more then ordinary help from the lord himselfe . by this time you see the truth of the doctrine . now let us consider the good of it in application to our selves , and that but in a couple of uses . the one for the information of our judgments . the other for direction in point of practice . vse 1. we may hence informe our selves , not only what the cause of god and his people is in other parts ; but what it is here with us . i say , to informe us what is the cause of god and his people in new-england . this is the first use . a mistake in this may be of dangerous consequence ; the true stating of this cause , and the right understanding of it , may be of no little help unto us in the times that are come upon us . for it is more then our lives , and as much as our soules are worth , to own the cause of god , and to be faithfull to it in our generation : to confess or deny this cause , is in scripture interpretation to confess or deny christ himselfe , and you know what he hath said in mat. 10.32 . whosoever shall confess me before men , him will i confess before my father which is in heaven , but whosoever shall deny me before men , him will i deny before my father which is in heaven : and in the eighth of mark and verse 38. whosoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation , ●f him also shall the son of man be ashamed when he comes in the glory of his father with all his holy angels . give me leave then i beseech you , honoured and beloved , to present a few things unto you about this caus● . i confess i should be utterly inexcusable in adventuring to shew my weakness in such a place at such a time as this , were i not able to call the most h●●h to witness that nothing but conscience of my duty put me and kept me upon this subject : when i received the summons of the honourabl● g●● to preach it this time , it was desired that some suitable word might be spoken : now whether the stating of the cause of god and his people amongst u● be not seasonable , i leave to the consideration of ●his ●wful and 〈◊〉 a●s●h . and i hope ●n the lord i shall say nothing about it , but what might be more abundantly made out by scripture light , and what the generallity of all the people of god ( not engaged unto parties ) will readily subscribe unto . first then , in the general the cause of god and his people amongst us is the cause of religion , i say the cause of religion 〈◊〉 the profession and practize of the one true religion to be in all thing , according to gods word . this was the cause of god and israel then , the same is the cause of god and his people now . to keep and seek for all the commandements of god. to walk in his waies and to keep his commandements which he commanded our fathers , as it is in the text : that every thing in doctrine worship and discipline be conformed unto and regulated by the rule of the word . this is the cause of god and his people in new-england in the generall . but that it may be more clearly understood , let me propound it more particularly both in the negative , what this cause is not , and in the affirmative what it is . and first negatively . it is 1. not the getting of this worlds good . 2. not separation from other churches . 3. not a toleration of all religions . 1. not the getting of this worlds good . the cause we are speaking of , it never was , it is not now , the getting & increasing of this worlds good . our saviour christ hath commanded , seek first the kingdome of god and the righteousness therof , and all other things shall be added mat. 6 33. accordingly when the lord stirred up the spirits of so many of his people to come over into this wilderness , it was not for worldly wealth , or a better livelyhood here for the outward man : the generallity of the people that came over professed the contrary : nor had we any rationall grounds to expect such a thing in such a wilderness as this . and though god hath blessed his poor people here with an addition of many earthly comforts , and there are that have encreased here from small beginnings to great estates , that the lord may call this whole generation to witness and say , o generation see the word of the lord , have i been a wilderness unto you ? jer. 2.32 . o generation see ! look upon your towne , & fields , look upon your habitations & shops and ships , and behold your numerous posterity , and great encrease in the blessings of the land & sea , have i been a wilderness unto you ? we must needs answer , no lord , thou hast been a gracious god , and exceeding good unto thy servants , ever since we came into this wilderness , even in these earthly blessing , we live in a more plentifull & comfortable manner then ever we did ●x●●ct . but these are but additions , they are but additionall mercies , it was another thing and a better thing that we followed the lord into the wilderness for . my fathers and brethren this is never to be forgotten , that new-england is originally plantation of religion , not a plantation of trade . let merchants and such as are increasing cent per cent remember this , let others that have come over since at several times understand this , that worldly gain was not the end and designe of the people of new-england , but religion . and if any man amongst us make religion as twelve , and the world as thirteen , let such an one know he hath neither the spirit of a true new-england man , nor yet of a sincere christian . 2. not separation from other churches , either in our own or other countries ; i say , not separation from any thing good in other churches , whether truth of church estate , or any doctrine professed , or any ordinance administred , so far as it was , or is agreeable to the word of god. we deny not the being of churches , where many things are wanting to their well-being . we distinguish between the corruptions and disorders of churches , and the churches themselves . we profess communion with , not separation from the churches of christ in lawfull things . they are the european churches , in which that numerous company of 144000. are said to stand with the ●amb upon mount sion , rev. 14.1 . and these are said to ●●●p the commandements of god and the faith of jesus verse 12. it is the doctrine and worship of the reformed churches comming out of popery which are said to be as a sea of glass man led with 〈◊〉 , r●● 15.2 . if g●●● , then they are not clear as cristall , as those in the primitive times chap. 4 6 and yet not as the blood of a dead man , as those under popery ch●● . 16.3 . it 〈◊〉 a sea of gl●ss mingled with ●●r , ( the fire of persecution with●ut , and of contention within ) and yet they that stand upon this sea have gotten the victory over the beast , and have the harpes of god in their hands and are accepted of the lord. the end of our comming hither was a reformation only of what was amiss or defective in the churches we came from : from which we made no separation , but a locall secession only into this wilderness , with true desires and endeavours after a more full reformation according to gods word . 1. not a toleration of all religions , or of the heresies & idolatries of the age we live in . i say , not a toleration of these so farr as wee have liberty and power for to help it . how inconsistent would such a toleration be , with the love of the one true religion revealed in the word of god ? would not such a state be guilty of having other gods , where such a toleration is ? is it not the end of civill authority , that men may live a quiet & peaceable life , in godliness as well as honesty ? but not in the wayes of ungodliness , no more then in the wayes of dishonesty : in a word , the gospel of jesus christ hath a right paramount , all rights in the world , it hath a divine & supream right to be received in every nation , and the knee of magistracie is to bow at the name of jesus . this right carryes liberty along with it , for all such as profess the gospel , to walk according to the faith & order of the gospell . that which is contrary to the gospel hath no right , and therefore should have no liberty . but the lawes which have been made by the civill government here , with respect unto religion , whereby you have declared your professed subjection to the gospel , and your non-toleration of that which is contrary thereunto ; this will be a name and a glory to new-england so long as the sun and moon endure . and so much for the negative , what the cause of god and his people amongst us is not , viz , not this worlds good , not separation , not a toleration . 2. now in the second place for the affirmative , if my weakness was able to shew you what the cause of god and his people in new-england is , according to its divine originall and native beautie , it would dazle the eyes of angels daunt the hearts of devils , ravish and chain fast the affections of all the saints . i crave leave to propound it thus , affirmatively ; it is 1. reformation of religion according to gods word . 2. a progress in that reformation . 3. the union of reformers . 1. the cause of god and ours it was and is reformation of religion according to gods word . there was religion in the churches from whence we came , but new-englands design in this vast undertaking , it was reformation i. e. the avoyding of some special corruptions , and the vigorous profession and practise of every thing , in doctrine , worship and discipline , according to scripture patterne : as in heb. 8.5 . when moses was about to make the tabernacle , he was admonished of god , saying , see that thou make it in all things according to the pattern shewed thee in the mount . and our saviour said unto his disciples , mat. 28.20 . teach them to observe all whatsoever i have commanded . this was and is our cause , that christ alone might be acknowledged by us , as the onely head , lord , and law-giver , in his church , that his written word might be acknowledged as the onely rule , that onely and all his institutions might be observed and enjoyed by us , and that with puritie and libertie , with peace and power . this was the end of our coming hither , this is our cause , hence i humbly conceive that the consent of the synod here to the confession of faith by the assembly of westminster , and the platform of discipline published in the year 49 these for the substance of them , have carryed with them a declaration of the faith and order of these churches , and are so looked upon by the reformed churches abroad , unto which may be added many other books of our divines of the same import : and the practise of these churches so farr as we have attained . 2. a progress in reformation . i conceive our cause is , not barely , a reformation , but a progress in reformation ; it was the charge of our saviour to the church of philadelphia , hold fast what thou hast , rev. 3.11 . it is also the duty of the people of god to go on unto perfection , heb. 6.1 . a conceit of having allready attained a perfect reformation should be farr from us : a true endeavour after a full reformation in the sense of our many defects , is the duty and spirit of sincere christians that advance the word of god , as the onely perfect rule , not that we have already attained or are already perfect , ( as the apostle speaks of himselfe , phi● . 3.12 . ) but we are to press forward still unto this mark , that we may in all be conformable to the perfect rule of the word of god. hence what we have attained in doctrine , worship & discipline , according to gods word , we must hold fast and then go forward unto any of the things of christ , we are defective in , we must go forward still , but not backward , i say not backward , at for instance . our fathers fled into this wilderness from the face of a lording episcopacie , and humane injunctions in the worship of god : now if any of us their children should yeild unto , or be instrumentall to set up in this country , any of the wayes of mens inventions , such as prelacie , imposed leiturgies , humane ceremonies in the worship of god , or to admit ignorant and scandalous persons to the lords table , this would be a backslideing indeed : it would be a backsliding to the things which we and our fathers have departed from , and have openly testified against , to be not of god , as in the platform of discipline , and many other wayes . instance againe , if after such a publick witness as hath been given amongst us against a toleration of all religions , there should be a graduall yeilding to a toleration of any false religion , ( either by law , or against law , for want of the execution of laws , ) this also would be a heinous backsliding which the lords jealousy will not bear . and for our civil government to put forth any act of consent unto either of the former , would be a thing to be trembled at , and prayed against , that the lord would keep them from . but on the other side : it is our duty to press forward still to the mark ; and to make a progress in reforming what ever is amiss or defective amongst us , as in those the late synod hath pointed unto , about the subjects of baptisme , and consociation of churches . that baptisme be administred to the children of church members who have right thereunto . and that the communion of churches be better improved amongst us . these are things we have been defective in , and therefore should be reformed in a practicall way . and that we be very carefull there be no superstition amongst us , nothing supra statutum , in discipline no more then in worship that nothing be imposed as necessary unto church-membership , which god hath not made necessary in his word ; that there be no arbitrary way of judging according to the private satisfaction or dis-satisfaction of mens spirit● ; and that no breach be made upon that order which god hath set in his church between the rulers and the ruled . that whilest we witness , against superstition in some things , we do not fall into superstition in other things , but that the rule of gods word be observed in all . the people of god sincerely endeavouring reformation , ( yet through inadvertencie , are subject to erre , either in defect or excess ; and while they would avoyd one extream , to fall into another : the way of god in his word is a narrow way , there are extreames on either side , the lord requires it of us , that we neither turne to the right hand , nor to the left , that we neither add unto , nor take from , what he hath commanded concerning the order of his house , prov. 4.26 , 27. deut. 12.32 . heb. 8.5 . mat. 28.20 . hence it is our duty to use all circumspection that there be no additions to , nor detractions from , the lords institutions , but that all may be according to scripture pattern ; that so farr as is possible in this our state of imperfection , we may be compleat in all the will of god , col. 4.12 . 3. vnto reformantium : the vnion of reformers . i say , the union of reformers belongs unto this cause , for there is not any one duty more pressed by our saviour christ and his apostles , then this of a holy and close vnion amongst those that profess his name . our blessed saviour solemnly prayed for this , in the seventeenth of john that his disciples might be one . the apostle exhorts unto this in eph. 4.3 . endeavouring to keep the vnity of the spirit in the bond of peace ; and he urgeth his exhortation by an argument taken from a seven-fold unity , wherein all sincere christians agree , verse 4 , 5. there is one body , and one spirit , and one hope , one lord , one faith , one baptisme , one god and father of us all . therefore endeavour to keep the vnitie of the spirit in the bond of peace . and he beseecheth the corinthians to mind vnion , 1 cor. 1.11 . i beseech you brethren by the name of the lord jesus , that there be no divisions amongst you , but that you be perfectly joyned together in the same judgment , and the same mind , and that you speak the same thing . to the same purpose he hath a most passionate exhortation to the philippians in chap 2 1 , 2. if there be any consolation in christ , if any fellowship of the spirit , if any bowels , and mercies , fulfill you my joy , that you be like minded , having the same love , being of one accord , of one min● : and sometimes , when he saw little hopes of it upon earth , he looks up to the lord in heaven , & beseeches him to grant this mercy to his churches and people , as in rom. 15.5 . n●w the god of patience , and consolation , grant you to be like minded one to another according to christ jesus , that with one mind , and one mouth , ye may glorifie god even the father of our lord iesus christ . all which may leave a strong conviction upon us , that this belongs to the cause of god , and his people , that there be a spirit of vnion and communion , amongst us in the things of christ , and though it be the priviledg of some times , when the lord shall fulfill those prophecies in an eminent way , that his people shall serve him with one consent ; and that the lord shall be one , and his name shall be one : yet this is the duty of the people of god at all times , ( especially at this time & in this place ) to endeavour vnion , that ( so far as is possible ) we may be of one judgment , of one heart , and one way , in all the churches of the saints . hence there should be no affecting of dividing names and parties amongst us , but all should be for this , that the lord may be one , and his name but one . hence also it is desireable that one catechisme , one confession of faith , and one covenant were agreed upon and used in the severall churches as a meanes of consent . and hence again ( so farr as the lord gives liberty ) there should be a frequent use of councils amongst us , to enquire after the mind of god and his word , according to the pattern in acts. 15. and other scriptures . it s true that in times of popery , there was great abuse of councils : yet it is as true , that in divers of the first centuries there was great advantage to the truth by meanes of councils , and in somewhat above the last hundred years , the work of reformation was much promoted by the godly councils and conference of reformers . it is a known passage of melancton . v●ximus in synodis et jam mortemur in illis . they were constantly searching the scripture , that they might reform all according to that , and before them , the churches of the waldenses for many hundreds of years , walking in the simplicitie of the gospel , they had then frequent councils , and their generall ●ouncils every year , nor is there any one point more frequently insisted on , in the writings of our divines of the congregationall way then this of the right use of councils . not that the judgment of a synod bindes any further the 〈◊〉 hath conformity with the scriptures , but counsels are a meane , which the lord hath appointed , and promised to bless for clearing up of the truth and uniting his people therein . it is true , the best of men may erre ; and there being divers measures of light and grace , there cannot but be different apprehensions in some things , and therefore where there is not so full an agreement as was to be desired , it is our duty to forbear one another in love , so farr as we have attained , walking by the same rule , minding the same thing , leaving other things to god & time , phil. 3.15.16 . that is now , when all gods meanes have been used , and yet some lesser things remain controversall amongst pious and sober men , who agree in the maine , there is the place for christian forbearance , not in order to separation , but in order to union , for so the apostle joynes them together , ephe. 4.2 , 3. in lowlyness and meeknes forbearing one another in love , and endeavouring to keep the unitie of the spirit in the bond of peace . in one word ; union is to be endeavoured because the truth is but one , and forbearance is to be used because of the weaknes of men , which yet is as far from a toleration of a false religion , as the east is from the west . thus i have shewed you ( as my weaknes was able ) what the cause of god and his people amongst us is affirmatively , it is reformation , a progress in reformation , and the vnion of reformers . now i shall add but this one thing more , that this cause hath a divine right , and a divine liberty adjoyned unto it , according to the law of liberty , the royall law of god , as it is called , james 2.8 , 12. i. e. right from god , and liberty from god for his people , to do their duty to god and christ , in matters of religion according to gods word . nor is there any power upon earth that can lawfully hinder this . and this is the cheif interest of new england : i. e. it is the matter of greatest importance in it self , and of greatest concernment unto us . the one true religion according to scripture , being the only meanes to the highest end , the glory of god and the salvation of soules : and therefore what ever may be said of our interest in other respects , yet we may be sure of this , that here lyes our predominat interest & cause , and the great end for which we came into this wilderness , and continue in it . and so much for the use of information . vse 2. it is for direction , if the times be such , and the case be such , as the maintaining of the cause of religion , doth need and require more then ordinary help from the lord himselfe , then it serves , to teach all that are sincerely affected unto this cause , what course we should take for the maintaining of it : and that is this , to commend this cause unto iehovah himself , beseeching him that he would maintain his own and his people cause both now at this time even as the matter doth require ; and hereafter at all times as the matter may require . me thinks i look upon this present assembly as in its proportion resembling that great assembly of the people of israel mentioned in the text . here are the heads of our tribes , the honoured magistrates , and deputies of this colonie , the reverend elders of the churches , and a multitude of other godly people ; and i am perswaded you are affected to this cause , as that assembly was , your desire is to see religion flourish , and the cause of god and his people be maintained amongst us . i need not tell you what the times are , ( shaking times , and trying times ) wherein the cause of religion is endangered on every side . i desire onely to discharge the duty of a poor servant of the lord and yours , by putting you in remembrance of that which the text here points us unto , namely , to commit this cause to the infinite wisdome and good pleasure of the lord our god , whose name is upon us , and who dwels in the midst of us , to interest him , and engage him , in the maintaining of it . this was holy counsell given to job in the midst of his plunges and distresses , iob 5 8 , 9. i would seek unto god , and unto god would i commit my cause , which doth great things , and unsearchable , and mervellous things without number , who disappointeth the devices of the crafty , to set up on high those that are low , that such as mourne may be exalted unto safety . say ( brethren i beseech you ) is not this that you would have , that the cause of religion , and those that love it , may be in safety ? then here is the way , for all the servants of god , to commit this cause unto him which doth great things and unsearchable , and marveilous things without number , unto him who hath maintained , who doth maintaine , and will maintain his own and his peoples cause according to the counsel of his own will , for the praise of his glorious grace . quest . now if it be demanded . but now should we commit this cause unto him , that he may be engaged in the maintaining of it , above all that we can ask or think ? answ . i answer breifly in this one direction , ( which will be useful to the honoured worthies of the general court , and yet will also reach the meanest in the congregation ) that you commit the safety of this cause to the lord himselfe , in the same way as you do commit unto him the salvation of your own soules , i say , that we do all commit this cause unto the lord even in the same way as we do every one commit unto him the salvation of our soules . you may see the bottom of this direction in 1 pet. 4.19 . where the apostle adviseth christians in evil times , to commit the keeping of their soules unto god in w●l●ing as unto a faithfull creator . i doubt not but there are abundance here that are acquainted with this , when in the midst of spirituall distresses you commit your soules to the mercy of god in christ in the promise , you do also remember the way of well-doing , the way of gods commandements , ( the narrow way to life which our saviour hath told us of ) and in that way you do commit your soul into the hand of jesus christ , sanctifying him as your onely and alsufficient saviour . as david in psal . 31.3 , 5 , 6. into thy hands i commit my spirit , thou hast redeemed me o lord god of truth , for thou art my rock and my fortress , for thy name sake lead me and guide me in thy way , for i hate lying vanities , but i trust in the lord. now in the very same way we should all commit the safety of the cause of religion to the lord himselfe . that is 1. in the way of well-doing , 2. in the way of humble prayer . 3. sanctifie the lord himselfe as the maintainer of this cause . i entreat that i may borrow but a little of your time and patience , to explain these three particulars and then i have done . 1. in the way of well doing . commit this cause to the lord in the way of well doing , thus the apostle informs us , that this is the will of god , that we keep in the way of well doing 1 pet. 2.15 . and upon this ground , he exhorts in the same place , verse 13 , 14. submit your selves to every ordinance of man for the lords sake . civill government in genere is an ordinance of god , ( the higher powers are ordained of god , r●m 13.1 . ) but in spe●●● , it is an ordinance of man , though every form of civil government is to be subservient unto religion , as its ultimate end ; yet ( hic aut iste singularis modus as divines use to speak ) this o● that particular forme of civil government is an ordinance of man , it is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , a humane creature . now mark i beseech you what the apostle sayes , submit your selves to every ordinance of man for the lords sake , whether to the king as supream , or unto governours sent by him . this is our case , his majesty the king whom the lord hath set upon the throne is the supream civill governour under god , and over us ; and the government setled here by the charter of this colonie is a subordinate government , we are to remember our duty to both , and that for the lords sake , for so is the will of god , that with well doing you put to silence the ignorance of foolish men , as the apostle there speaks verse 15. this way of well doing , is a narrow way , ( as every way of duty is ) there are by-pathes , and down-falls on either side , it is not good intentions , nor p●aefrau●es , that will excuse from going out of the way of well-doing , but here lyes the exercise of godly wisdom to keep in the narrow way of well-doing shewed in the word of god , to fear god , and honour the king , to give unto god the things that are gods , and unto cesar the things that are cesars . the counsel of our saviour is to be remembred , be wise as serpents , and innocent as doves , the serpents ey in the doves head , becomes a christian well , it is for the honour of religion when the servants of god cary it so as paul did , so as to give no occasion ; so as to cut off occasion from them that seek occasion , that we may be able to say as he did , neither against the temple , nor against the law , nor ●gainst cesar have i offended any thing , act. 25.8 . and so as daniel did in whom there was an excellent spirit dan. 6.3 and the excellencie of his spirit did appear in this , that he behaved himselfe so as those that sought to find occasion against him , could find none , for as much as he was faithfull , neither was there any errour or fault in him , then said these men , we shall not find any occasion against this daniel , except we find it against him concerning the law of his god. my fathers & brethren , this is for our admonition , and this will be for the honour of religion , when such as have the managing of publick affaires , are understanding in the times to know what israel ought to do● , 2 chron. 12.32 . not what they can do , or what they will do , but what they ought to do , not what their liberty is , but what their duty is , and what their liberty is according to their duty . to serve the times in matters of religion we must not : we must obey god rather then men , if it come to a stress , but in managing publick affairs in such times as daniel lived in the matter did so require for him to be so carefull , as that no errour nor fault might be found in him . this is for our imitation . the holy ghost informes us , it is the wisdom of the prudent to understand his way , prov. 14.8 . and a wise mans heart discerneth of time and judgment : and in ephes . 5.17 . be not unwise , but understanding what the will of the lord is . in two evils of sin , there is no election , neither is to be chosen , but in two evils of affliction the less hath the respect of a good , and may be chosen to prevent a greater evil . in the question what is best , we are not only to consider what is best in it self , but what is best with reference to all the circumstances of a case . in matters divine where we have a clear command , with moses we must not yeild an hoof , but in matters humane , summum jus may be summa injuria , standing upon extream right , may prove extream wrong , salu● populi suprema lex , the safety of the common-wealth , is the supream law. and here , suffer me i beseech you to exhort you unto that which is the duty of us all , and that is , to be peaceable and faithful in israel , according to that speech of one in a troublesome time , when there were some that said they had no part in david , 2 sam. 20.19 . i am one that am peaceable and faithfull in israel , it was the speech of a woman , but it may well become the wisest men and the most godly , to be peaceable and faithfull in israel . first peaceable from schisme in the church , and sedition in the common-wealth , or whatsoever tends unto faction , studying to be quiet , and every one to do their own work , and then faithfull to the cause of religion according to our duty to god : faithfull to the king according to the oath of alleg●●nce , and faithfull to the government here according to the oath of fidelity . and be you all exhorted in the words of the holy apostle rom. 14. ●9 . ●●w after the things which make for peace , and beware of such things as may endanger it amongst your selves , let none say that these or those are disaffected to the cause of god and his people , because they see not 〈◊〉 some things as others do , do not impropriate the cause of religion to some in opposition to others , who profess the same cause , none should speak of themselves as if they were the godly party and eminently saints and faithful with despising others , nothing is more offensive amongst christians , then to confine religion to some singular opinion , as if religion did mainly center there , there were differences at corinth , but how doth the apostle write unto them all , 1 cor. 1.2 . 2 cor. 1.2 . to the saints at corinth , and to all that call upon the name of the lord jesus , their lord and ours ; mark that expression their lord and ours , theirs and ours , wherin the apostle checks the conceitedness in some that would impale and inclose the common cause of christ unto themselves and some peculiar opinion of theirs , let us beware of this . and the apostle saw it needfull to admonish the best christians , let nothing be done through strife or vain glory , or in a way of provoking one another , avoyding jealousi●s and uncharitable censures , being watchfull that satan get no advantage , this also is for our admonition , and i hope that the votes of this day will make it appear you have a due respect unto your ancient magistrates that have born the burden and heat of the day , and that you have no undue prejudice against any that have been and may be still instruments of publick good . when once in capua they were thinking of leaving out some of their senators , they considered where they should have better and what might follow , ( they considered what might follow ) and this reconciled their mindes . finally brethren be you all of one mind in this to be faithfull and peaceable in israel , that as it hath been , so it may still be an honour to all the people of this colonie , that they are peaceable men ; and whatever the rumors and surmises have been , yet i hope it will appear , such as are not yet fr●-men will be so farr from disturbance that they will not offer to vote in the elections of this day . and i doubt not but the general court will take the case into serious consideration afterwards , but for the present all should be carefull that there may be a peaceable transaction of the publick affaire , and a peaceable subjection to the government here , and that all the people as one man doe manifest their due sense of the many , blessings they have enjoyed under the present government for so many years , that there may be conjoyned prayers and endeavours for the continuance of it , according to the patent , which under god and the king is to be acknowledged as the foundation of the civil government here . it is now 35 year since i well remember , in the year 28 that one of the first ministers that came over into this wilderness , giving some account of his grounds in a great assembly of many thousands at leicester in old-england , he mentioned this as one , the mercy of the patent , and the largeness of the patent , from the royall authority of england , for the people here to chuse their own magistrates , and to admit unto freedom such as they should think meet , and that religion was the principall end of this plantation in his majesties royal intention and the adventurers free possession . this whole generation hath seen how good the lord hath been unto us in this wilderness for so many years under the government setled here by the patent . and therefore at in the matter of religion we are to keep to the word of god , so in the matter of the civil government keep to the patent . and thus to be peaceable & faithful in israel , is the way of well doing , wherin we are to commit the maintaining of the cause of religion to the lord our god. i shall now dispatch the other two directions very breifly . 2. in the way of humble prayer , commit this cause unto god by humble fervent and frequent prayer as we are directed in the text : let these my prayers be nigh to the lord our god , that he maintain the cause of his people israel . when the matter requires more then ordinary help from the lord himselfe , and yet the lord seems to withdraw and to be asleep , then the servants of god must awaken him by their importunate prayers , as the disciples in the storm did awaken our saviour , saying ; lord save us or we perish . when the people of god are faithfull to own his cause , and carefull , neither to fall short of their duty nor to go beyond it , but keep in the narrow way of wel-doing and yet meet with such stormes of providence as they are at their wits end what remaines then but prayers & tears ? o our god we know not what to doe , but our eyes are unto thee , arise o lord and plead thy own cause . awake awake o arm of the lord as in ancient times . 3. last of all , sanctifie the lord himselfe as the alsufficient maintainer of this cause as david said , th●● o lord art the maintainer of my l●● , psal . 16.5 . when the cause of religion seemes ready to be spoiled by the professors of it , and ready to be mined by the opposers of it , yet there is one in heaven that is able and faithfull , and watchfull , and skilful , for the preservation of it , and therefore in quietness , and confidence , in returning and resting shall we be saved , as the prophet speaks , isai . 30.15 . we should not onely submit unto , but acquiesce and rest in the infinite wisdom and good pleasure of god , that he may doe it in his own way , rejoicing in this , that the lord reignes over all . give unto the lord the glory due unto his name , that he will not forsake his people , ( he may afflict his people , and there may be need of it and cause for it , but he will not forsake his people ) for his great names sake , 1 sam. 12.22 . and be comforted in this , that the safety of the church militant lyes upon the hand , and belongs to the care of jesus christ ; the ship of the church may be endangered , it cannot be drowned so long as the lord lives , he hath a thousand wayes ( that we know not of ) for him to maintain his own and his peoples cause . now unto him be glory in the church by christ jesus throughout all ages , world without end . amen . finis . a platform of church discipline gathered out of the word of god, and agreed upon by the elders, and messengers of the churches, assembled in the synod at cambridge in new england, to be presented to the churches and generall court for their consideration and acceptance in the lord, the eighth moneth, anno 1649. this text is an enriched version of the tcp digital transcription a55001 of text w2574 in the english short title catalog (wing p2396). textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. the text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with morphadorner. the annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. this text has not been fully proofread approx. 114 kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from 22 1-bit group-iv tiff page images. earlyprint project evanston,il, notre dame, in, st. louis, mo 2017 a55001 wing p2396 estc w2574 13114190 ocm 13114190 97729 this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons 0 1.0 universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase 1, no. a55001) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set 97729) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, 1641-1700 ; 749:9) a platform of church discipline gathered out of the word of god, and agreed upon by the elders, and messengers of the churches, assembled in the synod at cambridge in new england, to be presented to the churches and generall court for their consideration and acceptance in the lord, the eighth moneth, anno 1649. mather, richard, 1596-1669. [2], 10, 29, [2] p. printed by s.g. at cambridge in new england, and are to be sold at cambridge and boston, [cambridge, mass.] : 1649. marginal notes. drawn up by richard mather. cf. holmes, minor mathers, another issue of 51a. generally known as the cambridge platform. reproduction of original in huntington library. eng congregational churches -massachusetts -cambridge -early works to 1800. congregational churches -government. a55001 w2574 (wing p2396). civilwar no a platform of church discipline gathered out of the word of god: and agreed upon by the elders: and messengers of the churches assembled in congregational churches in new england. cambridge synod 1649 18779 988 5 0 0 1 4 1173 f the rate of 1173 defects per 10,000 words puts this text in the f category of texts with 100 or more defects per 10,000 words. 2003-02 tcp assigned for keying and markup 2003-03 apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images 2003-08 judith siefring sampled and proofread 2003-08 judith siefring text and markup reviewed and edited 2003-10 pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a platform of church discipline gathered out of the word of god : and agreed upon by the elders : and messengers of the churches assembled in the synod of cambridge in new england . to be presented to the churches and generall court for their consideration and acceptance , in the lord . the eight moneth anno 1649 psal : 84 1. how amiable are thy tabernacles o lord of hosts ? psal : 26. 8. lord i have loved the habitation of thy house & the place where th●…ne honour dwelleth . psal : 27. 4. one thing have i desired of the lord that will i seek after , ●…hat i may dwell in the house of the lord all the dayes of my life to behold the beauty of the lord & to inquire in his temple . printed by s g at cambridge in new england and are to be sold at cambridge and boston anno dom : 1649. the preface the setting forth of the publick conf●…ssion of the faith of church●… at●… a 〈◊〉 ●…d , 〈◊〉 b●…h ten●…ing to puplic . 〈◊〉 . 〈◊〉 the 〈◊〉 of the fa●…h 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 se●…f : secondly th●… holding 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 un●…ty & harm●… , both amongst , & with other churches . our chu●…es h●…e , as ( ●…y the grace of chr●…st ) wee beleive & profess the sam●… ▪ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ●…e 〈◊〉 ●…f ●…he gospell , which generally is received in ●…ll the reformed 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ●…st in ●…rope : so 〈◊〉 , wee desire not to vary f●…om the ●…octrine of f●… 〈◊〉 ●…eld fo●… by ●…he churches of our nat●…ve country . for though it be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , that can breed vs 〈◊〉 of 〈◊〉 min●… ; 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 w●…e for to hav●… the glor●…ous fa●…h of our lord iesus w●…th respect of persons : yet as p●…ul who wa●… 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , ●…rofessed to hold forth the doctrine of just●…fication by faith , & of th●… 〈◊〉 of the de●… , 〈◊〉 as he know his godly countrymen did , who were ●…wes by nature ( gala●… . 2. 15. acts 26. 6 , 7. ) soe wee , who are by nature ; eng●…sh m●…n , d●… d●…sire to hold forth the s●…me 〈◊〉 of religion ( especially 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ) wh●… wee see & kn●…w to 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 by th●… churches of england , accor●…g to the truth of the gospell the more wee 〈◊〉 , ( that which wee doe , & have cause to doe with incessant 〈◊〉 & 〈◊〉 ) he 〈◊〉 , & unbr●…therly , & unchristian contentions of our godly brethr●…n , & countrymen , ●…n matters of church-government : he more ern●…stly do●… wee desire to see th●…m joyned together in one common faith , & our selves w●… 〈◊〉 . for th●…s ●…nd , h●…ng perused the publ●…k confession of faith , agreed uponly the reverend assembly of d●…ines at 〈◊〉 , & find●…ng the sum●… & su●…stance therof ( in matters of doctrine ) to express not th●… own judgements o●…ly , 〈◊〉 o●…rs also : and being likewise called upon by our godly mag●…strates , to d●…w up a publick 〈◊〉 of that f●…ith , which is constan●…ly taught , & genera●…y 〈◊〉 amongst us , wee thought good to p●…esent ●…nto them , & with them to our 〈◊〉 , & w●…h them to all the church●…s of christ abroad , our prof●…ssed & hearty 〈◊〉 & 〈◊〉 to th●… whole 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 faith ( f●…r 〈◊〉 of d●…ctrine ) which 〈◊〉 reverend 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 h●…nourable 〈◊〉 of engl●… : excep●…ing only some 〈◊〉 in the 25 30 & 31. c●…apters of their conf●…ssion , whic●… 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of con●…roversie in 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; 〈◊〉 whi●… wee ref●…re our selves to the draught of church-discpline in the ensueing treatise . the truth of what we here declare , may appear by the unanimous vo●…e of the synod of the elders & messengers of our churches assembled at cambridg , the last of the sixth month , 1648 : wo●…ch ioyntly passed in these words ; this synod having perused , & considered ( with much gladness of heart , & thankfullness to god ) the cōfession of faith published ●…f late by the reverend assembly in england , doe judge it to be very holy , orthodox , & judicious in all matters of faith : & doe therfore freely & fully consent therunto , for the substance therof . only in those things which have respect to church government & discipline , wee refer our selves to the platform of church-discipline , agreed upon by this present assē●…ly : & doe therfore think it meet , that this confession of faith , should be cōmended to the churces of christ amongst us , & to the honoured court , as worthy of their due consideration & acceptance . howbe●… , wee may not conceal , that the doctrine of vocation expressed in chap 10. s 1. & summarily repeated , chap 13. & 1. passed not without some debate . yet considering , that the term of vocation , & others by which it is described , are capable of a larg , or more strict sense , & use , and that it is not intended to bind apprehensions precisely in po●…t of order or method , there hath been a generall condescendency therunto . now by this our professed consent & free concurrence with them in all the doctrinalls of religion , wee hope , it may appear to the world , that as wee are a remnant of the people of the same nation with them : so wee are professors of the same common faith , & fellow heyres of the same common salvation . yea moreover , as this our profession of the same faith with them , will exempt us ( even in their judgmēts ) from suspicion of heresy : so ( wee trust ) it may exempt us in the like sort from suspicion of schism : that though wee are forced to dissent from them in matters of church-discipline : yet our dissent is not taken up out of arrogancy of spirit in our selves ( whom they see willingly condescend to learn of them : ) neither is it carryed with uncharitable censoriousness towards them ( both which are the proper , & essentiall charracters of schism ) but in meekness of w●…sdom , as wee walk along w●…th them , & follow them , as they follow christ : so where wee 〈◊〉 a ●…fferent apprehention of the mind of christ ( as it faileth out in some few points 〈◊〉 church-order ) wee still reserve due reverence to them ( whom wee judge to be , th●…ough chr●…st , the glorious l●…ghts of both nations : ) & only crave leave ( as in spirit wee are bound ) to follow the lamb w●…thersoever he goeth , & ( after the apostles example ) as wee bele●…ve , so wee speak . and if the example of such poor outcasts as our selves , might prevaile if not with all ( for that were too great a blessing to hope fo●… ) yet with some or other of our brethren in england , so farr as they are come to ●…ind & speake the same thing with such as dissent from them , wee hope in christ , it would not onely moderate the harsh judging and condemning of one another in such differences of judgment , as may be found in 〈◊〉 ch●…ysest sa●…nts : but also preven ( ●…y the mercy of 〈◊〉 ) the perill of the distraction & 〈◊〉 of all the churches 〈◊〉 both k●…ngdoms . otherwise , if brethren shall goe on to bite & devoure one another , the apo●… feare●… ( as wee als●… , ●…th s●…dness of 〈◊〉 a●… ) 〈◊〉 will tend to the 〈◊〉 of them , & 〈◊〉 wh●…ch t●…e lo●…d prevent . wee are not ignorant , that ( besides these 〈◊〉 of heresy & schis●… ) other exceptions also are tak●…n at our w●…y of church govern●… : 〈◊〉 ( as wee conce●… ) u●… as li●…le 〈◊〉 . as 1 that by admitting none into the fellowship of our church , but saints by c●…lling , wee 〈◊〉 p●…sh-churches of th●… b●…st 〈◊〉 , to make up one of o●…r cong●…gations : which is not o●…ly , to gather churches o●…t of churches ( a th●…ng 〈◊〉 ●…f ●…n sc●…pture : ) but also to weaken the hearts & hands of the best minist●…rs ●…n th●… par●…shes , by d●…spoyling them of th●…●…st ●…earers . 2 that wee provide no course for the gayning , & 〈◊〉 in , of ignorant , & erronious , & 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , whom wee 〈◊〉 to receive into our churches , & so exclude from the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of 〈◊〉 . 3 that in our way , wee sow seed●… of division & h●…ndrance of edificat●…ō in every f●…ly : whilst admitting into our churches only voluntar●…es , the husbād w●…ll be ●…f on●… church , the wife of another : the parent , of one church , the children of 〈◊〉 the ma●…ster of one ch●…rch , the servant , of another . and so the parent & ma●…sters being of d●…fferent churches from their child●…n & servants , t●…ey cannot take a j●…st ●…ccount of their profiting by what they heare , yea by this 〈◊〉 the 〈◊〉 , parents , & ma●…sters , shall be chargable to t●…e 〈◊〉 of 〈◊〉 other churc●…es & church-officer●… , besides their own : which will prove a charge & b●…rden unsuppo●…ble . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , as to 〈◊〉 . fo●… 〈◊〉 churches out of churches , wee cannot s●…y t●… it is a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . the ●…st 〈◊〉 church was 〈◊〉 out ●…f the iew●…sh 〈◊〉 , 〈◊〉 of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that church , & 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ●…f 〈◊〉 , part●…y of 〈◊〉 ga●…leans : who though t●…y k●…pt some 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 parts of pu●…k 〈◊〉 wi●…h the t●…ple : yet 〈◊〉 th●… 〈◊〉 th●…y frequen●… th●… 〈◊〉 , no●… 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for the 〈◊〉 of their 〈◊〉 causes , b●…t 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 with the apostles c●…ch ●…ll ●…he ord●…nances of the gos●… . and for the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 church of the 〈◊〉 at antoch , it appe●…reth 〈◊〉 ●…ve ●…een g●…hered & 〈◊〉 partly of the ●…sed b●…hren of the 〈◊〉 at ierus●…lem ( whe●…of so●… were men of cyprus , and 〈◊〉 ) 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . acts . ●…1 . 20 , 21. if it be sa●…d the fi●…st christ●…an church at ierus●…lem , & that at antioch were gathered not out of any ch●…stian church , but out of the jewish 〈◊〉 and synagogues , which were shortly aft●…r to be abolished : & their gathering to ant●…och , was upon occasion of dispersion in time of persecution . wee d●…sire , it may be considered , i that the members of the iewish church were more strongly and st●…tly tyed by express holy covenant , to keep fellowsh●…p with the iewish church , t●…ll it was abol shed , then any members of christian parish-churches are wont to be tyed to keep fellowsh●…p with their par●…sh-churches . the episcopall canon●… , which bind them to attend on th●…er parish church , it is likely they a●…e now abolished with the episcopa●…y . the common law ●…f the land is satisfy a ( as wee concive ) if they attend upon the worship of god in any other church though not 〈◊〉 their own parish . but no such like covenant of god , nor any other religious 〈◊〉 upon them to attend the worship of god in their own par●…sh church , as did lye up●…n the iewes to attend upon the wo●…ship of god in their temple and synagogue . 2 t●…ugh the iew●…sh temple church at ierus●…em was to be abolis●… , vet that doeth not make the desertion of it by the members , to be lawfull , ●…ll 〈◊〉 was al●…o she●… . future abolition is now errant for present dese●…o : unless it be lawfull ●…n some case 〈◊〉 the chu●…chis yet in present sta●…ding to 〈◊〉 ; to witt , either for avoyding of present polutions , or for hope of greater 〈◊〉 , and so f●…r better 〈◊〉 to conscience in either future events ( 〈◊〉 for●… of 〈◊〉 ) to not ●…olve present relat●…on . else wives , children , servants , might desert 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , pa●…ents , ●…asters , when they be mortally sick . 3 what the members of the iewish ch●…ch did , 〈◊〉 to the church a●… antioch , in time of persecution , it may w●…ll be con●…ved , ●…e 〈◊〉 of any christ an church may d●… the lik , for satisfaction of con●… . pe●…ce of 〈◊〉 is m●…re 〈◊〉 then the pe●…ce of the outwa●…d 〈◊〉 ●…nd 〈◊〉 , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of cons●…ēce is m●…re 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to a sincere hea●… , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 from 〈◊〉 . if it be s●…d , these members of the christ an ch●…ch at 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , that joyned to the church at antioch , removed their 〈◊〉 together with th●…r relations : which ●…f the brethren of the 〈◊〉 way 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , it w●…ll much abate the grievance of their depart●… from their presbyter all churche●… . wee verily could w●…sh them ●…o to a●… , as ●…ll approv●…ng the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ●…bitation , ●…n case of ch●…ging church-relation●… ( 〈◊〉 , that it may be done wi●…hout too much ●…riment to their outward estate ) ●…nd w●… for our pa●…tes , have done t●…e same . but to put a necessi●…y of removall of habi●…●…n in such 〈◊〉 , 〈◊〉 is to fo●…nt and cherish a corrupt principle of making civ●…l ●…ation , if ●…ot a 〈◊〉 cause , yet at least a proper adiunct of church-relation ; which the truth of the gospel do●…h no●… ackno●…ledg . now to 〈◊〉 an errour to the prejudice of the tr●…th of the gospell , is no●… to 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 according to the truth of the g●…pel , as paul 〈◊〉 , galat. 2. 14. 4 wee do not think it meet , or safe , for a me●…ber of a presbyteriall church , fo●… with to desert his relation to his church , betake himself to the fellowship of a 〈◊〉 church , though he may d●…scern some def●…ct in the estate , or government of his owne . for 1 faithfullness of brotherly love in church-relation , requireth , that the members of the church sh●…ld first convince their brethren of their sinfull defects , & duely wait for their reformation , bef●…re they depart from them . for if wee must take such a course for the healing of a private brother , in a way of brotherly love , with much ●…eekness , & patience : how more more ought wee so to walk with like tendrness , towards a whole church . again 2 by the hasty departure of ●…ound members from a defective church , refo●…mation is not promoted , but many times retarded , & corruption increased . wheras ●…n the contrary , while sincere members breathing after purity of reformation abide together , they may ( by the blessing of god upon their faithfull endeavours ) preva●…le much with their elders , & neighbours towards a reformation ; ●…t may be , so 〈◊〉 , as that their elders in their own church shall receive none to the lord ▪ table , ●…ut visible saints : & in the classis shall put forth no authoritive ●…ct but c●…tive only ) touching the members of other churches : nor touching their own but 〈◊〉 the consent ( silēt consent at least ) of their own church : which two things , 〈◊〉 t●…ey can ●…bteyn with any humble , meek , holy , faithfull endeavours , wee 〈◊〉 , they might ( by the grace of christ find liberty ●…f consc●…ce to 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 relation with their own pre●…byteriall church , w●…hout scru●…le 5 ●…t to add a word farthe●… , 〈◊〉 the gathering of c●…urches out of ch●…rches , what ●…f the●…e we●…e ●…o express examp●…●…f such a 〈◊〉 extant in the script●… ? 〈◊〉 wh●… w●… 〈◊〉 w●… to 〈◊〉 the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , may suffice hear : it is 〈◊〉 , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 th●… of may be gathered from just 〈◊〉 of scripture 〈◊〉 . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ●…ase , 〈◊〉 ▪ for ought wee know ) w●…thout ex 〈◊〉 , w●…ch he g●…e 〈◊〉 4 〈◊〉 of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ans to 2 qu : c 14. nu●… 16. if any ( faith he ) wronged with unj●…st vexation , or providing for his own 〈◊〉 or in test●…ony against sin̄ depart from a church where some evills are tollerated , & joyn himself to another more p●…re , yet without cōdemning of the chu●…ch he l●…veth , he is not therfore to be h●…ld as a schismatick , or as guilty of any other sinn . whe●…e the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which the 〈◊〉 docter putteth , declareth the lawf●…llness of the dep●…ture of a church-me●…er from his church , when e●…ther through w●… 〈◊〉 of unjust vexation , or 〈◊〉 way of pr●…sion for h●…s own edification , or in test●…ny 〈◊〉 sinn , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to 〈◊〉 co●…gtion mo●…e reformed . any one ●…f 〈◊〉 , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 & 〈◊〉 c●…use of de●…re , though all of them do not concurr together . neither will such a practise dispoyle the best m●…nisters of the p●… she s of the●… best he●…ers . for 1 somtimes the m●…sters themselves are willing to joyn with their better sort of hearers , in this way of reformation : & then they & their h●…rers cont●…nue stil their ch●…ch relati●… together , ye●… & confirm●…t mo 〈◊〉 & strongly , by an express re●…ewed covenant , th●…h the ministers may still continue their w●…ted pre●…ching to the w●…le p●…sh . 2 if the m●…ster , d●… 〈◊〉 the way of those , w●…om they otherwise 〈◊〉 their best me●…bers , & so refuse to joyn with them therin ; yet ●…f those members can procu●…e s●…e other mi●…ster , to joyn with them in their ow●… way , & st●…ll 〈◊〉 their 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the same town , they may easily order the times of the 〈◊〉 assembly , as to attend constantly upon the 〈◊〉 of their former church : & either after or before the publick assembly of the parish take an opportunity to gather together for t●…e 〈◊〉 of sacramēts , & censure●… , & other church ordinances amongst themselves . the fi●…st apostolick 〈◊〉 assembled to hear the word with the jewish church in the open courts of the temple : but 〈◊〉 gathered together for 〈◊〉 of 〈◊〉 , & other acts of church-order , from house to house 3 suppose , pre●…byteriall churches should cōmunicate so●…e of their best gifted members toward the erecting & gathering of another 〈◊〉 : ●…t would not forthwith be their detriment , but may be their 〈◊〉 . it is the most noble & perfect work of a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ( bot●… 〈◊〉 & 〈◊〉 ) 〈◊〉 ●…gate , & multiply his kind●… & t●… t●…e honour of the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ●…t , to set forward the wor●… of ch●…st 〈◊〉 well 〈◊〉 as at home . the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . the 8●… 8. to help forw●…rd he●… little ●…-church ▪ w●… 〈◊〉 t●… 〈◊〉 ●…th he●… ch●…yse-materiall , even be●…es of ced●…r , & such pretio●… living 〈◊〉 , ●…s wee●… fit to build a silver pall●…ce in the same book , the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 comp●…ed some●…e to a 〈◊〉 , 〈◊〉 to an orchard , cant 4. 1●… 13. no 〈◊〉 plant to a garden , or orchard , but seeketh to get the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , & plant , of his neighbours , & they freely imp●…rt them : nor doe they accoūt●…t 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to their garden , & orchards , but rat●… 〈◊〉 . nevertheless wee go not so farr : we ne●…ther seek , nor ●…alk the choyse-members of the parishes but accept them being offered . if it be sa●… , ●…hey are not offered by the m●…nisters , nor by the par●…sh churc●…s ( who have most right in them ) but only by themselves . it may j●…stly be dema●…nded what right , or what powr have either the ministers , or parish church over them . not by solemn church coven●…nt : for that , though it be the fi●…est engagement , is not owned , but rejected . if it be , by their joyning with the parish , in the calling & election of a minister to such a congregation at his first comming , there is indeed just weight in such an ingagement : nor doe wee judge it safe for such to remove from such a minister , unless it be upon such grounds , as may justly give him due satisfactiō . but if the uniō of such members to a parish church , & to the ministery therof , be only by cohabitation within the precincts of the parish , that union , as it was founded upō humane law : so by humane law it may easily be released . or otherwise , if a man remove his habitation , he removeth also the bond of his relation , & the ground of offence . 4 it need not to be feared , that all best hearers of the best ministers , no nor the most of them , will depart from them upon point of church-governmēt . those who have found the presence & powr of the spirit of christ breathing in their ministers , either to their conversion , or edification , will be slow to change such a ministery of faith , & holyness , for the liberty of church-order . upon which ground , & sundry other such like , their be doubtless sundry godly & judicious hearers in many parishes in england that doe & will prefer their relation to their ministers ( though in a presbyteriall way ) above the congreg●…tionall confoederation . 5 but if all , or the most part of the best hearers of the best ministers of parishes , should depart from them , as preferring in their judgments , the congregationall way : yet , in case the congregationall way should prove to be of christ , it will never greiv the holy hearts of godly ministers , that their hearers should follow after christ : yea many of themselves ( upon due deliberation ) will be reaedy to go along with them . it never greived , nor troubled john baptist that his best disciples , departed from him to follow after christ . joh. 3. but in case the congregationall way should prove to be , not the institution of christ ( as wee take it ) but the invētion of men : then doubtless , the presbyteriall form ( if it be of god ) will swallow up the other●… as moses rod devoured the rods of the aegyptians . nor will this put a necessity upon both the opposite partyes , to sh●…ft for themselves , & to seek to supplant one another : but only , it will call upon them {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} to seek & to follow the trueth in love , to attend in faithfullness each ūto his own flock , & to administer to the●… all the holy things of god , & their port ō of food in due season : & as for others , quietly to forbear them , & yet to instruct them with meekness that are contrary minded : leaving it to christ ( in the use of all good meanes ) to reveal his own trueth in his own time : & mean while endeavouring to keep the unity of the spirit in the bond of peace . 〈◊〉 p. 3. 15 , 16. ephesians . 4. 3. to the 2 exception , that wee take no co●…rse for the gayning & healing & 〈◊〉 in of ignorant & erronious , & scandal●…s persōs , whom wee refuse to receive into our churches & so exclude them from the rēmidy of church 〈◊〉 wee conceive the receiving of them into o●…r 〈◊〉 w●…d ●…ather loose 〈◊〉 cor●…pt our churches , ●…hen gain & heale the●… . a little 〈◊〉 layed in a lump of dough , will sooner le●…n the whole lump , then the whole l●…mp w●…ll sw●…eten i●… . wee therefore find it safer , to squ●…re rough & unhew 〈◊〉 , bef●…e he ●…e layed n o the buil●…ing ; rath●…r then ●…o h●…nimer & hew the●… , ●…hen ●…hey lye ●…renly ●…n the build●…ng . and accordingly , w●… meanes ( w●…e u●…e y●… & 〈◊〉 such ●…s are ignorāt or scandalous . 1 the publick min●…stery of the w●… , ●…pon w●…ch they are invitedly counsel , & required by wholsome l●…wes 〈◊〉 . a●… the word it is , wh●…ch is the powr of god to salvation , to the calling & 〈◊〉 ●…f sou●… . 2 p●…ivate conferr●…nce , & conviction by the elders , & 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ●…f 〈◊〉 church : whom they doe the ●…ore respectively heark●…n unto , wh●…n they see no 〈◊〉 ●…f enjoying church-fellowship , or participation in the sacraments for 〈◊〉 , or their 〈◊〉 , till they approve their judgments to be sound & or●…hodox , & th●… lives ●…ubdued to some hope of a godly 〈◊〉 . wh●…t can classical 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 selfe do more 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 case . the 3 exception wrapp●…th up in ●…t a three fold domestical inconvenience : & each o●… them meet to be eschewed . 1 disunion in families between each rel●…tion : 2 d●…sappointmēt of 〈◊〉 , for want of opportunity in the governours of familyes to take accoūt of th●… heard by the●…r children & servants . 3 disoursments of chargeable maintenance to the several churches , wherto the 〈◊〉 persons of their familyes are joyned . all which inconveniences either do no●… fall out in congregationall-church●… ; or are easily redressed . for none are o●…derly admitted into congregational-churches bu●… such as are well approved by good testimony , to be duly observant of familyrelations . or if any otherwise disposed should creep in they are either orde●…ly heal●… , or d●…ly removed in a way of 〈◊〉 . nor are they admitted , unl●…ss they can g●…e some good account of their pr●…iting by 〈◊〉 , ●…fore the elders & brethren of the church : & much more to their 〈◊〉 , & masters . godly tutors in the university can t●…ke an account of their pupils : & godly 〈◊〉 in the c●…ty can take account ●…f their children & servants , how they profit by the wo●…d they have heard in several churches : & that to the greater ed●…fication of the whole f●…mily , ●…y the variety of such administrations . bees may bring the more hony , & wax into the hive , when they are not l●…mited to one garden of flowers , but may fly abroad to man●… . no●…●…s any ch●…rge expected from 〈◊〉 , children , or servants to the 〈◊〉 of congregationall churches , 〈◊〉 her th●…n they ●…e 〈◊〉 w●…h personall 〈◊〉 , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , wh●…h may enable th●… to 〈◊〉 of su●…h 〈◊〉 as they ha●…e , & 〈◊〉 such as they have not . god accepteth not robbery for a sacrific●… . and though a godly housholder may j●…stly take himselfe bound in conscience , to cr●…tybute to any such church , wherto 〈◊〉 wife , or children , or servants doe stand in relation : yet that will not aggr●…ate the burden of his charge , no more then if they were received members of the same church wherto himself is related . but why doe wee stand thus long to plead exemptions from exceptions ? the lord help all his faithfull servants ( whe●…her presbyteriall , or congregational . ) to judg & shame our selves before the lord for all our former complyances to greater enormity●… in church-government , then are to be found either in the congregationall , or presbyteriall way . and then surely , either the lord will cleare up his own will to us , & so frame , & subdue us all to one mind , & one way , ( ezck. 43. 10 , 11. ) or else wee shall learn to beare one anothers burdens in a spirit of meekness . it will then doubtless be farr from us , so to attest the discipline of christ , as to detest the disciples of christ : so to contend for the seameless coat of christ , as to crucifi●… the living members of christ soe to divide our selves about church communion , as through breaches to open a wide gap for a deluge of antichristian & prophane malignity to swallow up both church & civil stat●… . what shall wee say more ? is difference about church-order beco●… the inlett of all the disorders in the kingdom ? hath the lord indeed left us to such hardness of heart , that church-government shall becom a snare to z●…on , ( as somtimes moses was t●… aegypt , exod. 10. 7. ) that wee cannot leave 〈◊〉 & contending about it , till the kingdom be destroyed ? did not the lord iesus , when he dedicated his sufferings for his church , 〈◊〉 his also unto his father , make it his earnest & only p●…ayer for us in this world , that wee all might be one in him ? iohn . 17. 20 , 21 , 22 , 23. and is it possible , that he ( whom the father ●…eard alway●… , iohn . 11. 42. ) should not have this last most solemn prayer heard , & graunted ? or , shall it be graunted for all the saints elsewhere , & not for the saints in england ; so that amongst them disunion sh●…ll grow even about church-union , & communion ? if it be possible , for a little faith ( so much as a grain of mustardse●…d ) to remove a mountaine : is it not possible , for so much strength of faith , as is to be found in all the godly in the kingdom , 〈◊〉 remove those images of jealousie , & to cast those stumbling-blockes out of the way , which may hinder the free passage of brotherly love amongst brethren ? it is true indeed , the national covenant doth justly engage both partyes , faithfully to endeavour the utter extirpation of the antichristin hierarchy , & much more of all blasphemyes , heresies , & damnable errours . certainly , if congregational discipline be independent from the inventions of men , is it not much more independent from the delusions of satan ? what fellowship hath christ with belial ? light with darkness ? trueth with errour ? the faithfull iewes needed not the help of the 〈◊〉 , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ●…y the temple of god : yea they rejected their help when it w●… offered , 〈◊〉 4. the 1 , 2 , 3. a●…d if the congregationall w●…y be a way of trueth ( as wee believe ) & if the brethren that walk in it be zealous of the trueth , & hate every false way ( as by the rule of their ho●…y discipline they are instructed , 2 iohn . 10 , 11. ) then verily , there is no branch in the nationall coven●… , that engageth the covenanters to abh●…re either congregationall churches , or their way : which being duely adminstred , doe no less effectually extirpate the a●…christian hierarchy , & all blasphemies , heresyes , & perni●…ous errours , then the other way of discipline doeth , which is more generally & publickly received & ratifyed . but the lord iesus 〈◊〉 with ●…ll ou●… h●…ts in ●…ret : & ●…e 〈◊〉 is the king of his ch●…ch , let him ●…e ple●… to excer●…ise his kingly powr in our spirites , th●…t so his k●…ngdome may come into our churches in p●…rity & peace . amen amen chapter i. of the form of church-government ; and that it is one , immutable , and prescribed in the word of god . 1 ecclesiasticall polity or church government , or discipline is nothing els , but that forme & order that is to be observed in the church of christ vpon earth , both for the constitution of it , & all the administrations that therein are to bee performed . 2 church-government is considered in a double respect either in regard of the parts of government themselves , or necessary circumstances thereof . the parts of government are prescribed in the word , because the lord iesus christ the king and law-giver of his church , is no less faithfull in the house of god then was moses , who from the lord delivered a form & pattern of government to the children of israel in the old testament : and the holy scriptures are now also soe perfect , as they are able to make the man of god perfect & throughly furnished vnto euery good work ; & therefore doubtless ●…o the well ordering of the house of god 3 the partes of church-government are all of them exactly described in the word of god being parts or means of instituted worship according to the second commandement : & therefore to continue one & the same , vnto the apearing of our lord iesus christ as a kingdom that cannot be shaken , untill hee shall deliver it up unto god , euen the father . soe that it is not left in the power of men , officers , churches , or any state in the world to add , or diminish , or alter any thing in the least measure ther●…in . 4 the necessary circumstances , as time & place &c belonging unto order and decency , are not soe left unto men as that under pretence of them , they may thrust their own inventions upon the churches being circumscribed in the word with many generall ●…imitations , where they are determined in respect of the matter to be neither worship it self , nor circumstances seperable from worship in respect of their end , they must be done vnto edification : in respect of the manner , decently , and in order , according to the nature of the things them selves , & civill , & church custom . doth not euen nature it selfe teach you ? ye●… they , are in some sort determined particularly , namely that they be done in such a manner , as all circumstances considered , is most expedient for edification : so , as if there bee no errour of man concerning their determination , the determining of them is to be accounted as if it were divine . chap : ii. of the nature of the catholick church in generall , & in speciall , of a particular visible church . the catholick church , is the whole company of those that are elected , redeemed , & in time effectually called from the state of sin & death vnto a state of grace , & salvation in iesus christ . 2 this church is either triumphant , or militant . triumphant , the number of them who are gloryfied in heaven : militant , the number of them who are conflicting with their enemies vpon earth . 3. this militant church is to bee considered as invisible , & visible . invisible , in respect of their relation wherin they stand to christ , as a body unto the head , being united unto him , by the spirit of god , & faith in their hearts : visible , in respect of the profession of their faith , in their persons , & in particuler churches : & so there may be acknowledged an universall visible church . 4 the members of the militant visible church , considered either as not yet in church-order , or as walking according to the church-order of the gospel . in order , & so besides the spiritual union , & communion , common to all belivers , they injoy more over an union & communion ecclesiasticall-politicall : so wee deny an universall visible church . 5 the state of the members of the militant visible church walking in order ▪ was either before the law , oeconomical , that is in families ; or under the law , national : or , since the comming of christ , only congregational . ( the term independent , wee approve not : ) therfore neither national , provincial , not classical . 6 a congregational-church , is by the inst●…titution of christ a part of the militant-visible-church , consistin●… of a company o●… saints by calling , un●…ed into one body by 〈◊〉 holy covenant , for the publick worship of god , & th●… mutuall edification one of another , in the fellowship o●… the lord iesus . chap : iii. of the matter of the visible church both inr●…spect of quality and quantity . the matter of a visible church are saints by calling . 2 by saints , wee understand , 1 such , as haue not only attained the knowledge of the principles of religion , & are free from gr●…s & open scand●…ls , but also do together with the profession of their faith & repentance , walk i●… blameles obedience to the word , so as that in charitable discretion they may be accounted saints by calling , ( though perhaps some or more of them be unsound , & hypocrites inwardly●… ) bec●…se the members of such particular churches are commonly by the holy ghost called saints & faithfull brethren in christ , and sundry c●…ch es haue been reproued for receiving , & suffering such persons to c●…ntinu in fellowship amongst them , as have been offensive & scandalous : the name of god also by this means is blasphemed : & the holy things of god defiled & prophaned , the hearts of godly gri●…ved : & the wicked themselves hardned : & holpen forward to ●…nation . the example of such doeth endanger the sanctity of others . a litle leaven leaveneth the whole lump . 2 the children of such , who are also holy . 3 the members of churches though orderly constituted , may in time degenerate , & grow corrupt & scandalous , which though they ought not to be ●…olerated in the church , yet their continu●…ce ●…erein , through the defect of the execution of discipline & ju●… 〈◊〉 , doth not immediately d●…ssolv the being of the church , as appeares in the church of israell , & the churches of g●…latia , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , 〈◊〉 , & 〈◊〉 . yet wee conceive , the substance of it is kept , where there is 〈◊〉 real agreement & consent , of a company of faithful persons to meet constantly together in one congregation , for the publick worship of god , & their mutuall edification : which real agreement & consent they doe express by their constant practise in comming together for the publick worship of god , & by their religious subjection unto the ordinances of god the●…e : the rather , if wee doe consider how scripture covenants have been entred into , not only expressly by word of mouth , but by s●…crifice ; by hand writing , & seal ; & also somtimes by silent co●…sent , without any writing , or expression of words at all . 5 this forme then being by mutuall covenant , it followeth , it is not faith in the heart , nor the profession of that faith , nor cohabitation , nor baptisme ; 1 not faith in the heart ? becaus that is invisible : 2 not a bare profession ; because that declareth them no more to be members of one church then of another : 3 not cohabitation ; athiests or infidels may dwell together with beleivers : 4 not baptism ; because it presupposseth a church estate , as circumcision in the old testament , which gave no being unto the church , the church being before it , & in the wilderne , without it seals presuppose a covenant already in being , one person is a compleat subiect of baptism : but one person is uncapable of being a church . 6 all believers ought , as god giveth them opportunity there unto , to endeavour to joyn themselves unto a particular church & that in respect of the honour of jesus christ , in his example , & institution , by the professed acknowledgment of , & subiection unto the order & ordinances of the gospel : as also in respect of their good of communion founded upon their visible union , & containd in the promises of christs special presence in the thurch : whence they have fellowship with him , & in him one with another : also for the keeping of them in the way of gods commandm●…nts , & recovering of them in case of wandring , ( which all christs sheep are subiect to in this life ) , being unable to returne of themselves ; together with the benefit of their mutual edification , and of their posterity , th●…t they may not be ●…ut of from t●…e priviledges of the covenan●… , otherwis , if a believer offends , he remaines destitute of the remedy provi●…ed in that behalf , & should all believers neglect this duty of ●…yning to all particular congregations : it might follow therupon , that 〈◊〉 should h●…ve no visible political c●…rches upon earth , chap v. of the first subject of church powr or , to whom church powr doth first 〈◊〉 . the first subject of church powr , is eyther supream , or subordinat , & ministerial . the supream ( by way of gift from the father ) is the lord iesus christ , the ministerial , is either extraordinary ; as the apostles , prophets , & evangilists : or ordinary ; as every particular congregational church . 2 ordinary church powr , is either the power of office , that is such as is proper to the eldership : or , power of priviledge , such as be longs unto the brotherhood ▪ the latter , is in the brethren formally , & immediately from christ , that is , so as it may according to order be acted or excercised immediately by themselves : the former , is not in them form●…lly or immediately , & therfore cannot be acted or excercised immediately by them , but is said to be in them , in that they design the persons unto office , who only are to act , or to excercise this power . chap vi . of the officers of the church , & especially of pastors & teachers . a church being a company of people combined together by covenant for the worship of god , it appeareth therby , that there may be the 〈◊〉 & being of a church without any officers , seeing there is bot●… 〈◊〉 and matter of a church , which is implyed , when it i●… 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ordained elders in 〈◊〉 ●…urch , 2 〈◊〉 , though 〈◊〉 be not 〈◊〉 necess●…ry , to the simple being of churches , when th●…y be 〈◊〉 : yet ordinarily to their calling they are ; and to their well being : and therfore the lord iesus out of his tender compassion hath appointed , and ordained officers which he would not have done , if they had not been usefull & need full for the church ; yea , being ascended into heaven , he received gifts for men , and gave gifts to men , whereof officers for the church are justly accounted no small parts ; they being to continue to the end of the world , and for the perfecting of all the saints . 3 these officers were either extraordinary , or ordinary , extraordinary as apostles , prphets , evangilists , ordinary as elders & 〈◊〉 . the apostles , prophets , & evangelists , as they were called extraordinarily by christ , so their office ended with themselves whence it is , that paul directing timothy how to carry along church-administrations , giveth no direction about the choice or course of apostles , prophe●… , or evange●…sts , but only of elders , & deacons . & when paul was to take his last leave of the church of ephe●…s , he commited the care of feeding the church to ●…o ther , but unto the elders of that church . the like c●…rge doth 〈◊〉 commit to the elders . 4 of 〈◊〉 ( who are also in scripture called ●…shops ) some attend chiefly to the ministry of the word , a●… the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 teachers others , attend especially unto r●…le , who are therfore called rul●…ng elders . 5 the office of pastor & teacher , appears to be distinct . the pastors special work is , to attend to exh●…tation : & therein to administer a word of wisdom the teacher is to attend to d●…mo , & therein to administer a word of knowledg : & either of them to administer the seales of that covenant , unto the dispensation wherof the are alike called : as also to execute the censu●…e , being but a kind of application of the word , the preaching of which , together with the application therof they are alike charged withall . 6 and for as much as both pastors & teachers are given by christ for the perfecting of the saints , & edifying of his body , which saints , & body of christ is his church ; therfore wee account pastors & teacher , to be both of them church-officers , & not the pastor for the church : & the teacher only for the schools , though this wee gladly acknowledg , that schoole , are both lawfull , profitable , & necessary for the trayning up of such in good litrature , or learning , as may afterwards be called forth unto office of pastor or teacher in the church . chap vii . of ruling elders & deacons . the ruling elders office is distinct from the office of pastor & teacher . the ruling elders are not so called to exclude the pastors & teachers from ruling , because ruling & govern●…ng is common to these with the other ; wheras attending to teach and preach the word is peculiar unto the former . 2 the ruling e●…er , work is to joyn with the pastor & teacher in those acts of spiritual rubc which are distinct from the ministry of the word & sacraments committed to them . of which sort , these be , as followeth . 1 to open & shut●… the dores of gods house , by the admission of members approved by the church : by ordination of officers chosen by the church : & by excommunication of notorious & obstinate offenders renounced by the church : & by restoring of poenitents , forgivē by the church . ii to call the church together when there is occasion , & seasonably to dismiss them agayn . iii to prepare matters in private , that in publick they may be carried an end with less trouble , & more speedy dispatch . iv to moderate the carriage of all matter , in the church assembled . as , to propound matters to the church , to order the season of speech & silence ; & to pronounce sentence according to the minde of christ , with the consent of the church . v to be guides & leaders to the church , in all matters what-soever , pertaining to church administrations & actions . vi to see that none in the church live inordinately out of rank & place ; without a calling , or idlely in their calling . vii to prevent & heal such offences in life , or in doctrin ; as might corrupt the church . iix to feed the flock of god with a word of admonition . ix and as they shall be sent for , to visit , & to pray over their sick brethren . x & at other times as opportunity shall serve therunto . 3 the office of a deacon is instituted in the church by the lord jesus . somtime they are called helps . the scripture telleth us , how they should be qualified : grave , not double tougued , not given to much wine , not given to filthy . lucre . they must first be proved & then use the office of a deacon , being found blameless . the office and work of the deacons is to receive the offrings of the church , gifts given to the church , & to keep the treasury of the church : & therewith to serve the tables which the church is to provide for : as the lords table , the table of the ministers , & of such as are in necessitie , to whom they are to distribute in simplicity . 4 the office therefore being limited unto the care of the temporall good things of the church , it extends not unto the attendance upon , & administration of the spirituall . things thereof , as the word , and sacraments , or the like . 5 the ordinance of the apostle , & practice of the church , commends the lords day as a fit time for the contributions of the saints . 6 the instituting of all these officers in the church , is the work of god himselfe ; of the lord iesus christ ; of the holy ghost . & therefore such officers 〈◊〉 he hath not appointed , are altogether unlawfull either to be placed in the church , or to be retained therin , & are to be looked at as humane creatures , meer inventions & appointments of man , to the great dishonour of christ jesus , the lord of his house , the king of his church , whether popes , patriarkes , cardinals , arch-bishops , lord 〈◊〉 , arch-●…eacons , officials , commissaries , & the like . these & the rest of that hierarchy & retinue , not being plants of the lords planting , shall all be certeinly be rooted out , & cast forth . 7 the lord hath appointed ancient widdows , ( where they may be had ) to minister in the church , in giving attendance to the sick , & to give succour unto them , & others , in the like necessities . chap : iix . of the electon of church-officers . no man may take the honour of a church-officer unto himself , but he that was called of god , as was aaron . 2 calling unto office , is either immediate , by christ himself : such was the call of the apostles , & prophets this manner of calling ended with them , as hath been said : or mediate , by the church . 3 it is meet , that before any be ordained or chosen officers , they should first be 〈◊〉 & prove●… ; because hands are n●…t suddenly to be laid upon any , & both elders & deacons must be of honest & good repo●…t . 4 the things in respect of which they are to be tryed , are those gif●…s & virtues which the scripture requireth in men , that are to be elected into such places . viz , that elders must be blameles●… , sober , apt to teach & endued with such other qualifications as are layd downe , 1 tim: 3 & 2. t●…t : 1. 6 to 9. deacons to be fitted , as is directed , acts. 6 , 3. 1 tim: 3. 8 , to 11. 5 officers are to be called by such churches , whereunto they are to min●…ster . of such moment is the preservation of this power , that the churches excercised it in the presence of the apostles . 6 a church being free cannot become subject to any , but by a free election ; yet when such a people do chuse any to be over them in the lord , then do they becom●… subject , & most willingly submit to their ministry in the lord , whom they have so chosen . 7 and if the church have powr to chuse their officers & ministers , then in case of manifest unworthyness , & delinquency they have powr also to depose them . for to open , & shut : to chuse & refuse ; to constitute in office , & remove from office : are acts belonging unto the same powr . 8 wee judge it much conducing to the wel-being , & communion of churches , that where it may conveniently be done , neighbour-churches be adv●…sed withall , & their help made use of in the triall of church-officers , in order to their choyce . 9 the choyce of such church-officers belongeth not to the civil-magistrates , as such , or diocesan-bishops , or patrones : for of these or any such like , the scripture is wholly silent , as having any power therin . chap : ix . of ordination , & imposition of hands . church-officers are not only to be chosen by the church , but also to be ordeyned by imposition of hands , & prayer . with which at the ordination of elders , fasting also is to be joyned . 2 this ordination wee account nothing else , but the solemn putting of a man into his place & office in the church wher-unto he had right before by election , being like the installing of a magistrat in the common wealth . ordination therefore is not to go before , but to follow election , the essence & substance of the outward calling of an ordinary officer in the church , doth not consist in his ordination , but in his voluntary & free election by the church , & in his accepting of that election , wher-upon is founded the relation between pastor & flock , between such a minister , & such a people . ordination doth not constitute an officer , nor give him the essentials of his office . the apostles were elders , without imposition of hands by men : paul & barnabas were officers , before that imposition of hands . acts. 13. 3. the posterity of levi were priests , & the church that had powr to receive him into their fellowship , hath also the same powr to cast him out , that they have concerning any other member . 7 church-government , or rule , is placed by christ in the officers of the church , who are therefore called rulers , while they rule with god : yet in case of mal-administration , they are subject to the power of the church , according as hath been said before . the holy ghost frequently , yea alwayes , where it mentioneth church-rule , & church-government , ascribeth it to elders : wheras the work & duty of the people is expressed in the phrase of obeying their elders ; & submiting themselves unto them in the lord : so as it is manifest , that an organick or compleat church is a body politick , consisting of some that are governors , & some that are governed , in the lord . 8 the powr which christ hath committed to the elders is to feed & rule the church of god , & accordingly to call the church together upon any weighty occasion , when the members so called , without just cause , may not refuse to come : nor when they are come , depart before they are dismissed : nor speak in the church , before they have leave from the elders : nor continue so doing , when they require silence , nor may they oppose nor contradict the judgment or sentence of the elders , without sufficient & weighty cause becaus such practices are manifestly contrary unto order , & government , & in-lets of disturbance , & tend to confusion . 9 it belongs also unto the elders to examine any officers , or members , before they be received of the church : to receive the accusations brought to the church , & to prepare them for the churches hearing . in handling of offences & other matters before the church they have powr to declare & publish the counsell & will of god touching the same , & to pronounce sentence with consent of the church : lastly they have powr , when they dismiss the people , to bless them in the name of the lord . 10 this powr of government in the elders , doth not any wise prejudice the powr of priviledg in the brotherhood ; as neither the powr of priviledg in the brethren , doth prejudice the power of government in the elders ; but they may sweetly agree together , as wee may see in the example of the apostles furnished with the greatest church-powr , who took in the concurrence & consent of the brethren in church-administrations . also that scripture , 2 cor 2. 9. & chap 10 : 6. doe declare , that what the churches were to act & doe in these matters , they were to doe in a way of obedience , & that not only to the direction of the apostles , but also of their ordinary elders . 11 from the premisses , namely , that the ordinary powr of government belonging only to the elders , powr of priviledg remaineth with the brotherhood , ( as powr of judgment in masters of censure , & powr of liberty , in matters of liberty : ) it followeth , that in an organick church , & right administration ; all church acts , proceed after the manner of a mixt administration , so as no church act can be consummated , or perfected without the consent of both . chap : xi . of the maintenance of church officers . the apostle concludes , that necessary & sufficient maintenance is due unto the ministers of the word : from the law of nature & nations , from the law of moses , the equity thereof , as also the rule of common reason , moreover the scripture doth not only call elders labourers , & workmen , but also speaking o●… them doth say , that the labourer is worthy of his hire : & requires that he which is taught in the word , should communicate to him , in all good things ; & mentions it as an ordinance of the lord , that they which preach the gospel , should live of the gospel ; & forbideth the muzl●…ng of the mouth of the ox , that treadeth out the corn . 2 the scriptures alledged requiring this maintenance as a bounden duty , & du●…●…eci , & not as a matter of almes , & free gift therefore people are not at liberty to doe or not to doe , what & when they pleas in this matter , no more then in any other commanded duty , & ordinance of the lord : but ought of duty , to minister of their ca●…ail ●…ngs to them , that labour amongst them in the word & doctrine , as well as they ought to pay any other work men their wages , or to discharge & satisfie their other debts , or to submit themselves to observe any other ordinance of the lord . 3 the apostle , gal : 6 , 6. injoyning that he which is taught communicate to him that teacheth ●…ad good things : doth not leave it arbitrary , what or how much a man shall give , or in what prop●…on . but even the later , as well as the former , is prescribed & appointed by the lord . 4 not only members of churches , but all that are taught in in the word , are to contribute unto him that teacheth , in all good things . in case that congregations are defective in their contributions , the deacons are to call upon them to doe their duty : if their call sufficeth not , the church by her powr is to require it of their members , & where church-powr through the corruption of men , doth not , or can̄ot attaine the end , the magistrate is to see ministry be duely provided for , as appeares from the commended example of nehemiah . the magistrates are nursing fathers , & nursing mothers , & stand charged with the custody of both tables ; because it is better to prevent a scandal , that it may not come & easier also , then to remove it when it is given . it s most suitable to rule , that by the churches care , each man should know his proportion according to rule , what he should doe , before he doe it , that so his iudgment & heart may be satisfied in what he doeth , & just offence prevented in what is done . chap : xii . of admission of members into the church . the doors of the churches of christ upon earth , doe not by gods appointment stand so wide open , that all sorts of people good or bad , may freely enter therein at their pleasure ; but such as are admitted therto , as members ought to be examined & tryed first ; whether they be fit & meet to be received into church-society , or not . the evnuch of aethiopia , before his admission was examined by philip , whether he did beleive on jesus christ with all his heart the auged of the church at ephesus is commended , for trying such as said they were apostles & were not . there is like reason for trying of them that profess themselves to be beleivers . the officers are charged with the keeping of the doors of the church , & therfore are in a special man̄er to make try all of the fitnes of such who enter . twelve angels are set at the gates of the tem ple , lest such as were ceremonially unclean should enter therinto . 2 the things which are requisite to be found in all church members , are , repentance from sin , & saith in jesus christ . and therfore these are the things wherof men are to be examined , at their admission into the church , & which then they must profess & hold forth in such sort , as may satisfie rationall charity , that the things are there indeed . iohn baptist admitted men to baptism , confessing & bewayling their sinns : & of other it is said , that they came , & confessed , & shewed their deeds . 3 the weakest measure of faith is to be accepted in t●…ose that desire to be admitted into the church : becaus weak christians if sincere , have the substance of that faith , repentance & holiness which is required in church members : & such have most need of the ordinances for their confirmation & growth in grace . the lord jesus would not quench the smoaking flax , nor breake the bruised reed , but gather the tender lambes in his arms , & carry them gently in his bosome . such charity & tenderness is to be used , as the weakest christian if sincere , may not be excluded , nor discouraged . severity of examination is to be avoyded . 4 in case any through excessive fear , or other infirmity , be unable to make their personal relation of their spirituall estate in publick , it is sufficient that the elders having received private satisfaction , make relation therof in publick before the church , they testifying their assents therunto ; this being the way that tendeth most to edification . but wheras persons are of better abilityes , there it is most expedient , that they make their relations , & confessions personally with their own mouth , as david professeth of himselfe . 5 a personall & publick confession , & declaring of gods manner of working upon the soul , is both lawfull , expedient , & usefull , in sundry respects , & upon sundry grounds . those three thousands . acts. 2. 37. 41. before they were admitted by the apostles , did manifest that they were pricked in their hearts at peters sermon , together with earnest desire to be delivered from their sinns , which now wounded their consciences , & their ready receiving of the word of promise and exhortation . wee are to be ready to ●…der a reason of the hope that is in us , to every one that asketh us : th●…fore wee must be able and ready upon any occasion to declare & shew our repentance for sinn , faith unfamed ; & effectuall calling , because these are the reason of a well grounded hope . i have not hidden thy righteousness from the great congregation . psal : 40. 10. 6 this profession of faith & repentance , as it must be made by such at their admission , that were never in church-society before : so nothing hindreth , but the same way also be performed by such as have formerly been members of some other church , & the church to which they now joyn themselves as members , may lawfully require the same . those three thousand . acts. 2. which made their confession , were mēbers of the church of the jewes before , so were they that were baptised by john . churches may err in their admission : & persons regularly admitted , may fall into offence otherwise if churches might obtrude their members , or if church-members might obtrude themselves upon other churches , without due tryall , the matter so requiring , both the liberty of churches would hereby be infringed , in that they might not examine those , concerning whose fitness for communion , they were unsatisfied : & besides the infringing of their liberty , the churches themselves would ūavoidably be corrupted , & the ordinances defiled , whilst they might not refuse , but must receive the unworthy : which is contrary unto the scripture , teaching that all churches are sisters , & therfore equall . 7 the like tryall is to be required from such members of the church , as were born in the same , or received their membership , & were baptized in their infancy , or minority , by vertue of the covenāt of their parents , when being grown up unto yeares of discretion they shall desire to be made partakers of the lords supper : unto which , because holy things must not be given unto the unworthy , therfore it is requisit , that these as well as others , should come to their tryall & examīation , & manifest their faith & repentance by an open profession therof , before they , are received to the lords supper , & otherwise not to be be admitted there unto . yet these church-members that were so born , or received in their childhood , before they are capable of being made partakes of fall cōmunion , have many priviledges which others , not church-mēbers ) ha●…not ; they are in covenant with god ; have the seale therof upon th●… 〈◊〉 baptisme ; & so if not regenerated , yet are in a more hopefull way of attayning regenerating grace , & all the spiritual blessings both of the covenāt & seal ; they are also under c●…rch-watch , & consequently subject , to the reprehensions , ad non●…tions , & censures therof , for their healing and amendment , as need sh●…ll require . chap : xiii . of church-members their removall from one church to another , & of letters of recōmendation , & dismission . church-members may not remove or depart from the church , & so one from another as they please , nor without just & weighty cause but ought to live & dwell together : for as much as they are cōmanded , not to forsake the assembling of themselves together . such departure ▪ tends to the dissolution & ruine of the body : as the pulling of stones , & pe●…ces of timber from the building , & of members from the naturall body , tend to the destruction of the whole . 2 it is thērfore the duty of church-members , in such times & places when counsell may be had , to consult with the church wherof they are mēmbers , about their removall ; that accordingly they having their approbation , may be incouraged or otherwise desist . they who are joyned with consent , should not depart without consent , except forced therunto . 3 if a members departure be manifestly unsafe , and sinfull , the church may not consent therunto : for in so doing , they should not act in saith : & should pertake with him in his sinn . if the case be doubtfull , & the person not to be perswaded , it seemeth best to leave the matter unto god , & not forcibly to detayn him . 4 just reasōs for a mēbers removall of himselfe from the church are , i if a man cānot continue without partakig in sinn . ii in case of personall persecution , so paul departed from the desciples at damascus . also , in case of generall persecution , when all are scattered . iii in case of real , & not only pretended , want of competent subsistence , a door being opened for better supply in another place , together with the meanes of spirituall edification . in these , or like cases , a member may lawfully remove , & the church cannot lawfully detayne him . 5 to seperate from a church , eyther out of contempt of their holy fellowship , or out of 〈◊〉 or for greater inlargements with just greife to the church ; or out of 〈◊〉 , or 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; & out of a spirit of 〈◊〉 in respect of some unkindness , or 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 only concei●…ed , or indeed , in the church which might & should be tolèrated & heared with a spirit of meekness , & of which evill the church is not yet cōvinced , ( though perhaps himselfe bee ) nor admonished : for these or like reasons to withdraw from publick cōmunion , in word , or seales , or censures , is unlawfull & sinfull . 6 such members as have orderly removed their habitation ought to joyn themselves unto the church in order , where they doe inhabit if it may bee otherwise , they can neyther perform the dutyes , nor receive the priviledges of members ; such an example tolerated in some , is apt to corrupt others ; which if many should follow , would threaten the dissolution & confusion of churches , contrary to the scripture . 7 order requires , that a member thus removing , have letters testimonia●… ; & of 〈◊〉 from the church wherof he yet is , unto the church wherunto he desireth to be joyned , lest the church sh●…uld be deluded ; that the church may receive him in faith ; & not be corrupted by receiving deceivers , & false brethren . untill the person dismissed be received into another church , he ceaseth ●…ot by his letters of dismission to be a member of the church wherof he was . the church can̄ot make a member no member but by excōmunication . 8 if a member be called to remove only for a time , where a church is , letters of recommendation are requisite ; & sufficient for cōmunion with that church , in the ordinance , & in their watch : as phoebe , a servāt of the church at cenc●…ea , had letters writtē for her to the church of rome , that shee might be received , as becō●…eth saints . 9 such letters of recommendation & 〈◊〉 were written for apollos : for marcus to the col●…siā ; for phoebe to the romāe●… ; for sūdry others to other churches , & the apostle telleth u●… , that some persons , not sufficiently known otherwise , have special need of such letter●… , though he for his part had no need therof the u●…e of them ●…s to be a benefit , & help to the party for whom they are writtē ; & for the furthering of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 amongst the saints in the pl●… whe●…to 〈◊〉 goeth ; & the d●…e sat●…faction of them in their receiving of h●…m . chap : xiv . of excommunication & other censures . the censures of the church , are appointed by christ , for the prevent●…ng , removing , & healing of offences in the church : for the reclayming & gayning of offending brethren : for the deterring of others from the like o●…eces : for purging out the leaven which may infect the whole lump : for vindicating the honour of christ , & of his church , & the holy profession of the gospel : & for preventing of the wrath of god , that may justly fall upon the church , if they should suffer his covenant , & the s●…ales therof , to be prophaned by notorious & obstinate offenders . 2 if an offence be priv●… ( one brother offending another the offender is to goe , & acknowledg his repentāce for it unto his offended brother , who is then to forgive him , but if the ●…ffender neglect or refu●…e to doe it , the brother offēded is to goe , & cōvince & admonish him of it , between themselves privatly : ●…f therupon the offender bee brought to repent of his offēce , the admonisher hath won his brother , but if the offender heare not his brother , the brother offended is to take with him one or two more , that in the mouth of two or three witneses , every word may be established , ( whether the word of admonition if the offender receive it , or the word of complaint , if he refuse it : ) for if hè refuse it , the offēded brother is by the mouth of the elders to tell the church . & if he heare the church . & declare the same by pe●…tēt confession , he is recovered & gayned ; & if the church discern him to be willing to hear , yet not fully cōv●…ced of his offence , as in case ●…f heresy ; they are to dispēce to him a publick admonition ; which declaring the offēder to ly under the publ●…ck offence of the church , doth t●…e by with-hold or suspend him from the holy fellowsh●…p of the lords s●…pper , till his offence be removed by penitent cōfession . if he ●…ll 〈◊〉 obstinate they are to call him out by excōn unic●…tion . 3 but if the offēce be more 〈◊〉 at first , & of a more ●…ous 〈◊〉 , to wit , such as are condē●…ed by the light of nature ; then the church w●…thout such graduall proceeding , is to cast out the offender , from ther●… holy cōmunior , for the further mortifying of his 〈◊〉 & the healing of his soule , in the day of the lord jesus . 4 in dealing with an offēder , great care is to be takē , that wee be neither overstrict or rigorous , nor too indulgent or remiss : our proceeding here●… ou●…ht to be with a spirit of ●…ekness , considering our selves l●…st wee also be tēpted ; & that the best of us have need of much forg 〈◊〉 from the lord . yet the winīg & healīg of the offēders soul , being the end of the●…e ēdeavours , wee must not daub with ūtempered morter , nor heal the wounds of our brethren sleightly . on some have comp●…ō others save with fear . 5 while the offender remayns excōmunicate , the church is to refrayn from all member-like communion with him in spirituall things , & also from all familiar cōmuniō with him in civil things , farther then the necessity of natural , or domestical , or civil relatiōs doe require : & are therfore to for bear to eat & drike with him , that he may be 〈◊〉 . 6 excōmunication being a spirituall punishment , it doth not prejudice the excōmunicate in , nor deprive him of his civil rights , & therfore toucheth not princes , or other magistrates , in point of their civil dignity or authority . and , the excōmunicate being but as a publican & a heathen , heathens being lawfully permitted to come to hear the word in church assemblyes ; wee acknowledg therfore the like liberty of hearing the word , may be permitted to persons excommunicate , that is permitted unto heathen . and because wee are not without hope of his recovery , wee are not to account him as an enemy but to admonish him as a brother . 7 if the lord sanctifie the censure to the offender , so as by the grace of christ , he doth testifie his repentance , with humble cōfession of his sinn , & judging of himselfe , giving glory unto god ; the church is then to forgive him , & to comfort him , & to restore him to the wonted brotherly communion , which formerly he injoyed with them . 8 the suffring of prophane or scandalous livers to continue in fellowship , & partake in the sacraments , is doubtless a great sinn in those that have power in their hands to redress it ; & doe it not . nevertheless , inasmuch as christ & his apostles in their times , & the prophets & other godly in theirs , did lawfully partake of the lords commanded ordinances in the jewish church , & neyther taught nor practised seperation from the same , though unworthy ones were permitted therin ; & inasmuch as the faithfull in the church of corinth , wherin were many unworthy persons , & practises , are never commanded to absent themselves from the sacramēts , because of the same : therfore the godly in like cases , are not presently to seperate . 9 as seperation from such a church wherin pr●…phāe & scandalous livers are tolerated , is not presently necessary : so for the members therof , otherwise worthy , hereupon to absta●…n from communicating with such a church , in the participation of the sacraments , is unlawfull . for as it were unreasonable for an in̄ocent person to be punished , for the faults of other , wherin he hath no hand , & wherunto he gave no consent : soe is it more unreasonable , that a godly man should neglect duty , & punish himselfe in not cōming for his portion in the blessing of the seales , as he ought , because others are suffered to come , that ought not : especially , considering that himselfe doth neyther consent to their sinn , nor to their approching to the ordinance in their sinn , nor to the neglect of others who should put them away , & doe not : but on the contrary doth heartily mourn for these things , modestly & seasonably stirr up others to doe their duty . if the church c●…nnot be reformed , they may use their liberty , as is specified , chap 13. sect : 4. but this all the godly are bound unto , even every one to do his indeavour , according to his powr & place , that the unworthy may be duely proceeded against , by the church to whom this matter doth appertaine . chap : xv . of the cōmunion of churches one with another . although churches be distinct , & therfore may not be confoūded one with another : & equall , & therfore have not dominion one over another : yet all the churches ought to preserve church-communion one with another , because they are all united unto christ , not only as a mysticall , but as a politicall head ; whence is derived a communion suitable therunto . 2 the communion of churches is exercised sundry wayes . i by way of mutuall care in taking thought for one anothers wellfare .. ii by way of consultation one with another , when wee have occasion to require the judgment & counsell of other churches , touching any person ▪ or cause wherwith they may be better acquainted then our selves . as the church of antioch consulted with the apostles , & elders of the church at ierusalem , about the question of circumcision of the gentiles , & about the false teachers that broached that doctrine . in which case , when any church wanteth light or peace amongst themselves , it is a way of communion of churches ( according to the word ) to meet t●…ether by their elders & other messengers in a synod , to consider & argue the points in doubt , or d●…fference , & haveing found out the way of truth & peace , to commend the same by their letters & messengers to the churches , whom the same may concern . but if a church be rent with divisions amongst themselves , or ly under any open scandal , & yet refuse to consult with other churches , for healing or removing of the same ; it is a matter of just offence both to the lord jesus , & to other churches , as bewraying too much want of mercy & faithfulness , not to seek to bind up the breaches & wounds of the church & brethren ; & therfore the state of such a church calleth aloud upon other churches , to excercise a fuller act of brotherly communion , to witt , by way of admonition . iii a third way then of cōmunion of churches is by way of admonition , to witt , in case any publick offēce be found in a church , which they either discern not , or are slow in proceeding to use the meāes for the removing & healing of . paul had no authority over peter , yet when he saw peter not walking with a right foot , he publickly rebuked him before the church : though churches have no more authority one over another , then one apostle had over another ; yet as one apostle might admonish another , so may one church admonish another , & yet without usurpation . in which case , if the church that lyeth under offence , do not harken to the church which doth admonish her , the church is to aquait other neighbour-churches with that offēce , which the offending church still lyeth under , together with their neglect of the brotherly admonition given unto them ; wherupon those other churches are to joyn in seconding the admonitiō formerly givē : and if still the offēding church continue in obstinacy & impenitency , they may forbear communion with them ; & are to proceed to make use of the help of a synod , or counsell of neighbour-churches walkig orderly ( if a greater can̄ot conveniētly be had ) for their conviction . if they hear not the synod , the synod having declared them to be obstinate , particular churches , approving & accepting of the judgmēt of the synod , are to declare the sentence of non-cōmunion respectively concerning them : & therupon out of a religious care to keep their own communion pure , they may justly withdraw themselves from participation with them at the lords table , & from such other acts of holy cōm●…ion , as the communion of churches doth otherwise allow , & require . nevertheless , if any members of such a church as lyeth under publick offence ; do●… not consent to the offence of the church , but doe in due sort beare witness against it , they are still to be received to wonted communion : for it is not equall , that the in●…cent should suffer with the offensive . yea furthermore ; if such innocent members after due wayting in the use of all good meanes for the healing of the offence of their ●…wn church , shall at last ( with the allowāce of the counsel of ne gh●…our-churches ) withdraw from the fellowship of their own ch●…ch 〈◊〉 offer themselves to the fellowship of another ; wee judge it lawll for the other church to receive them being otherwise fitt ) as if they had been orderly dismissed to them from their own churc●… . iv a fourth way of communion of churches , is by way of particip●…n : the members of one church occasion●…lly comming unto another , wee willingly admitt t●…em to 〈◊〉 with us at the lords t●…le , it being the seale of our communion not only with christ , nor o●…ly with the members of our own church , but also with all the churches of the saints : in which regard , wee refuse not to baptize their children presented to us , if either their own minister be absent , or such a fruite of holy fellowsh●…p be desired with us . in like case s●…ch churches as are furnished with more ministers then one , doe willingly afford one of their own ministers to supply the place of an absent or s●…ck minister of another church for a needfull season . v a fifth way of church-communion is , by way of ●…mendation when a member of one church hath occasion to reside in another church ; if but for a season , wee cōmend him to their watchf●…ll ffellowsh●…p by letters of recommendation : but if he be 〈◊〉 to settle his abode there , wee commit him according to h●…s desire , to the ffellowship of their covenant , by letters of d●…smission . vi a sixt way of church-communion , is in case of ne●… , to minister reliefe & succour one unto another : 〈◊〉 of able members to furnish them with officers : or of outward ●…pport to the necessityes of poorer churches ; as did the 〈◊〉 of the gentiles contribute liberally to the poor s●…ints at ierusalem . 3 when a compāy of beleivers purpose to gather into church fellowship , it is requisite for their sa●…er proceeding , & the maintaining of the communion of churches , that they sign●…fie their intent unto the neighbour-churches , walking according unto the order of the gospel , & desire their presence , & help , & right hand of fellowship which they ought readily to give unto them , when their is no just cause of excepting against their proceedings . 4 besides these severall wayes of communion , there is also a way of propagation of churches ; when a church shall grow too numerous , it is a way , & fitt season , to propagate one church out of an other , by sending forth such of their mēbers as are willing to remove , & to procure some officers to them , as may enter with them into church-estate amongst themselves : as bees , when the hive is too full , issue forth by swarmes , & are gathered into other hives , soe the churches of christ may doe the same upon like necessity ; & therin hold forth to thē the right hand of fellowship , both in their gathering into a church ; & in the ordination of their officers . chap : xvi . of synods . synods orderly assembled , & rightly proceeding according to the pattern , acts. 15. wee acknowledg as the ordinance of christ : & though not absolutely necessary to the being , yet many times , through the iniquity of men , & perversness of times necessary to the wel-being of churches , for the establishment of truth , & peace therin . 2 synods being spirituall & ecclesiasticall assemblyes , are therfore made up of spirituall & ecclesiasticall causes . the next efficient cause of them under christ , is the powr of the churches , sending forth their elders , other messengers ; who being mett together in the name of christ , are the matter of the synod : & they in argueing , debating & determining matters of religion according to the word , & publishing the same to the churches whom it concerneth , doe put forth the proper & formall acts of a synod ; to the convictiō of errours , & heresyes , & the establishment of truth & peace in the churches , which is the end of a synod . 3 magistrates , have powr to call a synod , by calling to the churches to send f●…rth their elders & other messengers , to counsel & assist them in matters of rel●… 〈◊〉 : ●…t ye●…t the constituting of a synod , is a church act & may be t●…d by the churches , even when civil magistrates may be enemyes to churches & to churchassemblyes . 4 it bel●…ngeth unto synod , & counsel●… , to debate & determine controversies of faith , & ca●… of cons●… ; to cleare from the word holy directions for the ●…ly worsh●…p of god , & good government of the church ; to beare wit●… against ●…al administration & corruption in doctrine or man̄ers in any particular church , & to give directions for the reformation therof : not to exercise church-censures in way of discipline , nor any other act of church-authority or jurisdiction : which that presidentiall synod did forbeare . 5 the synod●… directions & determinations , so farr as consonant to the word of god , are to be received with reverence & submission ; not only for their agreement therwith which is the ●…ncipall ground therof , & without which they bind not at all : ) ●…t also second●…ly , for the powr wherby they are made , as being an ordinance of god appointed therunto in his word . 6 b●… is d●…ficult , if not impossible , for many churches to c●… altogether in one place , ●…n all their●…●…rs universally : therfore they may assemble by their delegates o●… messengers , as the church of antioch went not all to ierusalem , but some select men for that purpose . because none are 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 be more fitt to know the state of the churches , not to advise of wayes for the good thereof then elders ; therfore it is fitt that in the choice of the messengers for such assemblies , they have special respect ūto such . yet in as much as not only paul & barnabas , but certayn others also were sent to ierusalem from antioch . acts 15. & when they were come to ierusalem , not only the apostles & elders , but other brethren also doe assemble , & meet about the matter ; therfore synods are to consist both of elders , & other church-members , endued with gifts , & sent by the churches , not excluding the presence of any brethren in the churches . chap : xvii of the civil magistrates powr in matters e●…c●…es●…l . it is lawfull , profitable ▪ & necessary for christians to gather themselves into church estate , & therin to exercise all the ord●… of chr●…st according unto the word , although the consent of magistrate could not be had therunto ; because the apostles & christ●…ans in their time did frequently thus practise , when the magistrates being all of them jewish or pagan , & mostly persecuting enemies , would give no countenance or consent to such matters . 2 church-government stands in no opposition to civil gove●…ment of cōmon-welths , nor any intrencheth upon the authority of civil magistrates in their jurisdictions ; nor any whit weakneth their hand●… in governing ; but rather strengthneth them , & farthereth the people in yielding more hearty & consc●…onable obedience ūt●… the●… , whatsoever some ill affected persons to the wayes of christ have suggested , to alienate the affections of kings & princes from the ordinance of christ ; as if the kingdome of christ in his church could not rise & stand , without the falling & weakning of their government , which is al●…o of christ : wheras the contrary is most true , that they may both stand together & flourish the one being helpfull unto the other , in their distinct & d●… administrations . 3 the powr & authority of magistrates is not for the restra●…ing of churches , or any other good workes , but for helping in & furthering therof ; & therfore the consent & countenance of magistrates when it may be had , is not to be ●…ghted , or lightly esteemed ; but on the contrary ; it is part of that hon●…ur due to christian magistrates to desire & crave their consent & approbation therin : which being obtayned , the churches may then proceed in their way with much more encouragement , & comfort . 4 it is not in the powr of magistrates to compell their s●…bjects to become church-members , & to partake at the lords table : for the priests are reproved , that brought ●…worthy ones into the ●…tuarie : then , as it was unlawfull for the preists , so it is as unlawfull to be done by civil magistrates . those whom the church is to cast out if they were in , the magistrate ought not thrust into the church , nor to hold them therin . 5 as it is unlawfull for church-officers to meddle with the sword of the magistrate , s●… 〈◊〉 it ●…wfull for the magistrate to meddle with the work p●…per to c●…ch officers ▪ the acts of mo●… & dav●…d , who were not only p●… , but p●… , were ex●… ; therfore not ●…ble . ag●…●…n 〈◊〉 the l●…d wit●… , by 〈◊〉 uzz●…h w●… 〈◊〉 , for 〈◊〉 to offer 〈◊〉 6 it is the duty of the ma●… , to take ●…e of matters of rel●…gion , & to ●…nprove his ●…l autho●…ty for the oble●…ing of the duties commanded in the first , is well as for observing of the duties commanded in the second table they are called gods . the end of the magistrate●… office , is not only the q●… & p●…ble l●…fe of the subj●…t , in 〈◊〉 of rig●… & ho●…ty , but also in matter , of ●…ss yea of all 〈◊〉 m●… j●… , d●… , s●… , asa , jehoshaphat , hezekiah , josiah , are much commended by the holy ghost , for the putting forth their authority in matters of religion : on the contrary , such kings as have been fayling this way , are frequently taxed & reproved by the lord . & not only the kings of judah , but also job , nehe●…h , the king of nin●…veh , darius , artaxerxes , nebucad●…ezar , whom none looked at as types of christ , ( thouh were it soe , there were no place for any just objection , ) are cōmēded in the book of god , for exercising their authority this way . 7 the object of the powr of the magistrate , are not things meerly inward , & ●…o not subject to his cogni●…ance & view , as unbeleife hardness of heart , erronious opinions not vented ; but only such things as are acted by the outward man ; neither is their powr to be exercised , in commanding such acts of the outward man , & punnishig the neglect therof , as are but meer invētions , & devices of men ; but about such acts , as are commanded & forbidden in the word ; yea such as the word doth clearly determine , though not alwayes clearly to the judgment of the magistrate or others , yet clearly in it selfe . in these he of right ought to putt forth his authority , though oft-times actually he doth it not . 8 idolatry , b●…phemy , heresy , venting corrupt & pernicious opinions , that destroy the foundation , open contempt of the word preached , prophanation of the lords day , disturbing the peaceable administration & exercise of the worship & h●…ly things of god , & the like , are to be restrayned , & punished by civil authority . 9 if any church one or more shall grow sc●…smaticall , rending it self from the communion of other churches , or shall walke incor●…gibly or obstinately many corrupt way of their own , contrary to the rule of the word ; in such case the magistrate is to put forth his co●…ve powr , as the matter shall require the tribes on this side 〈◊〉 intended to make warr against the other tribes , for bu●… the altar of witness , whom they suspected to have turned away therin from following of the lord . finis notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a55001e-1160 ezek 43. 1●… col. 2. 5 1 tim 3 15 heb●… 3. 5. 〈◊〉 exod 25 40 2 tim 3 16 〈◊〉 tim 3 1●… 1 chron ●…5 13. ex 20 4 1 tim 6 13 v 16. heb 1●… 27 28. 1 cor 15 24. deut 12 32. ezek 43 8. 1 kings 12 , 31 32 33 1 king ●…2 v 〈◊〉 . 〈◊〉 . is●…i . 2●… 13. c●…l 2 ●…2 〈◊〉 act●… 15 2●… m●…tt 15 9 〈◊〉 cor 1●… 23 〈◊〉 8 34. 1 cor 14 26 1 cor 14 40 1 cor 11 14 〈◊〉 cor 11 16 1 cor 14 12 19. acts ●…5 28. notes for div a55001e-1350 ●…ph 1 22 23 & 5 25 26 30. heb ●…2 23. 〈◊〉 v. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ●…7 : 2 tim 2 12 c 〈◊〉 8. eph 6 〈◊〉 ●…3 . 2 tim 2 19. rev 217. 1 cor 6 17. eph 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . rom 〈◊〉 . 〈◊〉 . 1 ●…hes 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . is●… 2. 2 〈◊〉 tim 6 ●…2 . acts 19. 〈◊〉 . colos 2. 5. matt 1●… 17. 〈◊〉 co●… 〈◊〉 12. gen. 18. 19 exod : 〈◊〉 6. 1 cor. ●…4 . 23 1 cor. 14. 36 1 cor. 〈◊〉 2. 1 cor : ●…2 27. exo 〈◊〉 19 : 〈◊〉 6 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 : 1. & 9 to 〈◊〉 . acts. 2. 42. 1 cor 14 26. notes for div a55001e-1520 〈◊〉 cor : 1 2 i●…phe 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . hebr : 6. 〈◊〉 . 〈◊〉 cor. 1 〈◊〉 . rom. ●…5 ●…4 . is●… 1●… 16 17. ac●… 〈◊〉 . m●… 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . rom. 6 17. 1 cor. 〈◊〉 2. phi●…lip . 1 〈◊〉 . collo●… 〈◊〉 2. ●…phes . 〈◊〉 1. 〈◊〉 co : 5 ▪ 2 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . 〈◊〉 14 15 & 20. ezek. 4●… . 7 & 9. 〈◊〉 ch●…p . 2●… 3●… 〈◊〉 . num 〈◊〉 & 20. ●…gg . 2 13 14. 1 cor. 1●… 27 29 ps●…l . 37 21 : 1 cor. 5 〈◊〉 1 cor. 7 : & 14. ier. 2 21. 1 cor. 〈◊〉 1 : ier. 14. g●… 5 4. 2 co●… . 12 〈◊〉 . 〈◊〉 . 〈◊〉 1●… 1●… . 〈◊〉 : 2●… 21●… notes for div a55001e-1680 〈◊〉 19 5 〈◊〉 8 〈◊〉 & 24 3 1●… . 〈◊〉 24 ●…8 to 24 ps●…l 50 5. 〈◊〉 38 〈◊〉 10 〈◊〉 . gen 17. deu 29. act 2 47. & 〈◊〉 26. matt 3 13 14 15. & 28 1●… 20. psal 〈◊〉 2 3 & 87 〈◊〉 matt 182●… . 1 iohn 1 3. 〈◊〉 119 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 pet 2. 25 ▪ eph 4 16 ●…oh 22 24 25 〈◊〉 25 16 1●… . notes for div a55001e-1790 m●…tt 28 〈◊〉 rev 3 〈◊〉 . is●… 9 〈◊〉 . john 2●… 〈◊〉 ●…3 . 1 cor 14 32. ●…tus . 1 5. 〈◊〉 cor. 〈◊〉 12. ro●…●…4 〈◊〉 . acts 1 23 〈◊〉 6 3 4 〈◊〉 14 23 ▪ 1 co●… 29 3●… . notes for div a55001e-1940 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 3 15 〈◊〉 cor 〈◊〉 28 , ●…phe 4 〈◊〉 psal 68 18●… . eph 4. 8 11 ●…ph 4 12 ●…3 1 c●… 12 〈◊〉 eph 4 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 1 act 8 6 〈◊〉 19. 〈◊〉 11 28 rom 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 1 co●… 4 9. 1 tim●… 1 , 2 〈◊〉 , 8 to 13 tit 1. 5. ●…ct 20 17 28 1 pet 〈◊〉 1 2 3. 1 tim 2 2 phil 1 1. acts 20 19 〈◊〉 . 1 tim 5 29. sph 4 11. ●…om 12 7●… , 1 cor 12 8 2 tim 41 2 ●…it 〈◊〉 9 eph 4 11 12 cap 1 22 23 〈◊〉 ●…am 10 12 〈◊〉 10 20 2 king 23 〈◊〉 15. notes for div a55001e-2500 rom 119 〈◊〉 9. 1 tim 5 17. 1 cor 1●… 23. 〈◊〉 13 17 1 tim 5 17 〈◊〉 tim 5. 17. 2 chro. 23 19. rev 2●… 12. 1 tim 4 14. m●… 18 17. 2 cor 2 7. 8 act 2. 6 acts 〈◊〉 . 1●… 22. 23. acts 6. 2. 3 c. 13. 〈◊〉 15 2 cor 8. 10 heb 13. 7 , 7 2 thes 2. 10 11. 12 acts 20. 28 v 32. 〈◊〉 thes 5. 12. jam. 5. 14 acts 20. 20 act 6. 〈◊〉 . v 6 pail 1. 1 1 tim 3. 8 1 cor 12. 28 1. tim 3. 8. 9 acts 4. 〈◊〉 c 6. 2. 3 c 6. 2 rom. 22. 8. 1 cor 9. 〈◊〉 1 c. 16. 1. 2. 3 1 cor 11. 28 eph 4. 8. 11 acts 20. 28 matt 15. 13 〈◊〉 tim 5. 9. 10. notes for div a55001e-3220 heb. 5. 4 galat 〈◊〉 . 1 acts 14. 23 cap 6. 3 〈◊〉 tim 5. 22 c p 7 10 acts 16. 2 cap 6. 3 act 14. 23 c 1. 23. c 6 3. 4. 5. gal 5. 13 hebr. 13. 17 rom. 16. 19 cant. 8. 8. 9 notes for div a55001e-3620 acts. 1●… . 〈◊〉 cap 14. 23 1 tim. 5. 22 n●…m . 8. 10 act 6. 5. 6 cap 13. 2. 3 acts. 6. 5. 6 cap 14. 23 notes for div a55001e-3840 matt. 18. 17 1 tim. 5. 17 hebr. 13. 17 〈◊〉 thes. 5. 12 rom. 12. 8 1 tim. 〈◊〉 . 17 〈◊〉 cor. 12. 28 29. hebr. 13 7. 17. acts. 20. 28 cap 6. 2 num. 16. 12 ezek. 46. 10 acts. 13. 15 ●…osh . 4. 4. rev. 2. 2 1 tim. 5. 19 acts. 21. 18 22. 23 〈◊〉 cor. 5. 4. 5 num. 6. 23. ●…o 26. acts. 14. 15 vi . 2●… . c 6. 2 〈◊〉 cor. 5. 4 2 cor. 2. 6. 7 hebr. 13. 〈◊〉 notes for div a55001e-4050 1 cor. 9. 9●… 15. matt. 9●… 38. c 10. 1●… 1 tim. 5. 18 gala. 6. 6. 1 cor. 9. 〈◊〉 vers. 14. 1 tim. 5. 18 rom 15. 〈◊〉 . 〈◊〉 cor. 9. 11. gala. 6. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 cor. 16. 2 galat. 6. 6 act. 6. 3. 4 neh. 13. 1●… ●…say . 49. 23 〈◊〉 cor. 8. 13 〈◊〉 , notes for div a55001e-4310 2 chron. 23. 19. mat. 13. 25. & 22. 12 acts. 8. 37 rev. 2. 2 acts 9. 2●… rev. 2●… . 1●… 2 ch●… 23. 19 act 2. 38 1●… 〈◊〉 . c 8 37 matt 3. 6. acts 19 : 5. ro●… 14. 2 matt 12. 20. isay 4●… . 15. psa●…●…6 . 16 1 pe●…●…3 . 〈◊〉 , ●…ebr 11. 〈◊〉 ●…phe 1. 〈◊〉 . matt. 3. 5 , 6 gallat . 2. 4 〈◊〉 tim. 5. 24 c●…nt . 8. 8 matt. 7. 6 〈◊〉 cor. 11. 27 notes for div a55001e-4800 hebr. 10. 2●… 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . prov. 11. 14 rom 14. 〈◊〉 . 1 tim 5. 22. acts 21. 14. ephe. 〈◊〉 . 1●… acts 9. 2●… . & ver 29. ●…0 chap 8 ●…1 nehe ●…3 . 10 2 tim 4. 1●… r●…m 16. 17 jude . 19. 〈◊〉 . 4. 〈◊〉 . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 3. 13 〈◊〉 6. 1 ▪ 〈◊〉 is●…y 56. 8 acts 9. 26 〈◊〉 cor. ●…4 . 3●… 〈◊〉 . ●…8 . 27 rom 16. 1. 2 〈◊〉 c●…r . 3. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . 1●… . 27 co●…l 4. 10. rom. 16. 1 〈◊〉 c●…r . 3. 1. notes for div a55001e-5320 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . 〈◊〉 . 〈◊〉 . jude . 29. d●…ut . 13. 11 1 cor. 5. 6 r●…m . 2. 2●… rev. 2. 14. 15. 16. & 2●… mat. 5. 23 , 〈◊〉 lu●… . ●…7 . 3. 〈◊〉 matt. 〈◊〉 . 〈◊〉 v 〈◊〉 v 〈◊〉 tit. 〈◊〉 . 1●… matt. 18. 〈◊〉 1 cor 5. 〈◊〉 5. & v 〈◊〉 galat. 6. 〈◊〉 . matt 1●… . 34 ▪ ●…5 . 〈◊〉 . 1 〈◊〉 e●…ek 13. 1●… jer. 〈◊〉 . 14 matt 18. 17. 〈◊〉 co●… . 5. 11 2 the . 3. 6. 14 1 cor 14 , 24 25. 2 thes. 3. 14 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 2 cor 2. 7 , 8 ●…ev 〈◊〉 . 14 , ●…5 . ver. 20 mat 23. 3. acts 3. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 cor. 6 chap 15. 1●… 2 chron. 30 18. gen 18. 2●… . ●…t ezek 9 ▪ 〈◊〉 notes for div a55001e-5840 rev 1. 4 c●…nt . 8. 8. rom 16. 16. 1 cor 16. 〈◊〉 acts 15. 2●… rev 2. 〈◊〉 c●…nt 8. 8. act●… 15. 〈◊〉 acts 15. 6. ver : 22. 〈◊〉 ezek 34. 4. g●…ll 2. 〈◊〉 ●…o 14. math 18. 15. 16. 17. by ●…portion gen 18. 25. 1 cor 1●… . 13 rom 16. 1. acts 18. 27 acts 11. 22 vers 20. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . 13. 26. 27. 〈◊〉 2. 1. 2. & 9. by proportion 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ●…0 . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 8 , 9. notes for div a55001e-6260 acts 15. 2. 1●… 1●… . acts 15 2 , 3 ●…cts 6. ●…cts 7. to 23 vers 31. acts 164. 15 〈◊〉 chron ●…9 4. 5. to 11. acts 15. acts 15. 1 , 2 6. 〈◊〉 1 cl●… 1●… . 1●… . 〈◊〉 ch●… 9. 〈◊〉 7. act. 15. 24 vers 〈◊〉 . 29 acts. 15. acts 1●… . acts 15 〈◊〉 vers 22 , 23. notes for div a55001e-6470 act 2. ●…1 . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 2 , 3 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 john 1●… . ●…6 acts 25. 8. is●…y 49. 23. rom 13. 4. 〈◊〉 tim 2. 2. ●…ek 44. 7. 9 〈◊〉 cor 5. 11 matth 20. 25 , 26. 〈◊〉 c●… 26 16. 17. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . 2. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . 1●… 1 kings 15. 14. c 22. 43 〈◊〉 king 12. 3 c 14. 4. c 15. 35. 1 kings ●…0 . 42. job 29. 25. c 31. 26. 2●… . ne ●…3 jon 〈◊〉 3. 7. ezr●… 7. d●…n 3. 2●… . 1 kings 20. 2●… . vers 42. deut 13. 1 kings 2●… . 2●… . vers 42. d●… 〈◊〉 . 29. z●…ch 13. 3. neh 13. 21. 1 tim 2. 2. ro●… 13. 4. jo●… 22. an apologie of the churches in new-england for church-covenant, or, a discourse touching the covenant between god and men, and especially concerning church-covenant ... sent over in answer to master bernard, in the yeare 1639 ... mather, richard, 1596-1669. this text is an enriched version of the tcp digital transcription a50245 of text r180449 in the english short title catalog (wing m1267). textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. the text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with morphadorner. the annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. this text has not been fully proofread approx. 120 kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from 25 1-bit group-iv tiff page images. earlyprint project evanston,il, notre dame, in, st. louis, mo 2017 a50245 wing m1267 estc r180449 12254654 ocm 12254654 57319 this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons 0 1.0 universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase 1, no. a50245) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set 57319) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, 1641-1700 ; 154:18 or 245:e106, no 8) an apologie of the churches in new-england for church-covenant, or, a discourse touching the covenant between god and men, and especially concerning church-covenant ... sent over in answer to master bernard, in the yeare 1639 ... mather, richard, 1596-1669. peters, hugh, 1598-1660. davenport, john, 1597-1670. [3], 46 p. printed by t.p. and m.s. for benjamin allen, london : 1643. written by richard mather and edited by hugh peters. cf. nuc pre-1956. the apologie and the answer were both published in mather's church-government and church-covenant discussed. 1643. film lacks: an answer of the elders of the severall churches in new-england unto nine positions, sent over to them (by divers reverend and godly ministers in england) to declare their judgements therein, written in the yeer 1639, and now published for the satisfaction of all who desire resolution in those points / by john davenport. london : printed by t.p. and m.s. for b. allen, 1643 (p. 49-78). this item is located at reel 154:18 and also at reel 245:e.106, no. 8 where it is filmed after mather's church-government and church-covenant discussed. reproduction of original in thomason collection, british library. eng congregational churches -new england. covenant theology. a50245 r180449 (wing m1267). civilwar no an apologie of the chvrches in new-england for chvrch-covenant. or, a discourse touching the covenant betvveen god and men, and especially c mather, richard 1643 22737 137 25 0 0 0 0 71 d the rate of 71 defects per 10,000 words puts this text in the d category of texts with between 35 and 100 defects per 10,000 words. 2003-02 tcp assigned for keying and markup 2003-03 aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images 2003-04 rina kor sampled and proofread 2003-04 rina kor text and markup reviewed and edited 2003-06 pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion an apologie of the chvrches in new-england for chvrch-covenant . or , a discourse touching the covenant between god and men , and especially concerning church-covenant , that is to say , the covenant which a company doe enter into when they become a church ; and which a particular person enters into when he becomes a member of a church . sent over in answer to master bernard , in the yeare 1639. and now published for the satisfaction of all who desire resolution in this point . london , printed by t. p. and m. s. for benjamin allen . 1643. a discovrse tovching the covenant between god and men , and especially concerning church-covenant , that is to say , the covenant which a company do enter into when they become a church , and which a particular person enters into when he becomes a member of a church . 1639. jer. 50. 5. come let us joyne our selves to the lord , in a perpetuall covenant that shall not be forgotten . although that which is foretold in these two chapters , and namely in the fourth and fifth verses of this chapter , was in part fulfilled when the people of god returned from captivitie in babylon at the end of seventie yeares : yet we must not limit the place to that time onely , but may extend it further to the dayes of the gospel , and the spirituall return , not of the jews onely , but of the gentiles also , when men shall be converted from pagan , antichristian , babylonish , or jewish bondage and captivitie , or from slavery to sinne , and self-righteousnesse , and shall be joyned to god in the fellowship of his church , in the dayes of the new testament . for as some passages in this scripture were never fully accomplished at the returne from the captivitie of the seventie yeares , and namely this , that the children of israel and iudah should returne both together : ( for the ten tribes returned not at all : ) so many things that literally concerned the jewes were types and figures , signifying the like things concerning the people of god in these latter dayes : in which respect sincere converts are called jewes , rom. 2. 29. and israelites , gal. 6. 16. ioh. 1. 47. and our sacraments are made 〈◊〉 of theirs , a con 10. 1 , 2 , 3. and rome is called babylon , rev. 17. 5 , and papists are called gentiles ▪ rev. 11. 2. and therefore the captivitie of babylon might well be a type of the spirituall captivitie of gods people to antichristian bondage , and t●eir returne from babylon to sion , a type of the returne of christians from romish slavery to the true sion , the christian church . and this may be added further , that this place seemes not onely to be meant of the private or personall conversion of this or that particular christian , but also further , of the open and joynt calling of a company , because it is said , they shall come , the children of israel and the children of iudah together , and that their saying shall not be , let me joyne , &c. but in the plurall number , 〈◊〉 us joyne our selves unto the lord , so noting the joyning of a company togeth●r in holy covenant with god . concerning which covenant with god , it will not be amisse for the better understanding of that which followes ; first , briefly to shew how diversly covenant is taken in the scripture , which sometimes i●ports generally any firme appointment or promise of god , when man doth not promise unto god any thing backe againe : thus the preserving of noah in the arke , and of the wo●ld from being drowned any more by a floud ; the interchangeable succession of day and night ; the giving of the priesthood unto phin●as ; the setting forth of the shew-bread every sabbath before the lord , and the giving of the heave-offering unto the priests , are said to be done by a covenant , or an everlasting covenant of god , gen. 6. 18. & 9. 9. 10. 11. ier. 33. 20. num. 25. 12 , 13 〈◊〉 . 24. 8. num. 18. 19. but sometimes covenant is taken more strictly and properly , for an agreement which god doth make with men , when he promiseth some blessing unto men , and bin●es them to performe some dutie backe againe to him . taken thus it hath two parts : first , a promise or stipulation of some blessing on gods part : secondly , restipulation or promise , or bind●●g o● man unto dutie back againe on his part : both these are in those words of the covenant , i will be to thee a god , thou shalt be to me a people : and so gen. 17. 1. & v. 7 , 8 ▪ 9 , 10. the covenant taken thus is either the covenant of workes , or the covenant of grace : and againe the covenant may be considered , first as it is personall , private and particular , between god and one particular soule , making covenant with god , and god with him , either at his first conversion , or at other times ; of which we reade 2 sam. 23. 5. & psal. 119. 106. & 66. 13 , 14. & 27. 8. & psal. 119. 7 , 8 secondly , it is generall and publick of a company joyntly together , of which this text ier. 50. 5. seemes most properly to speake : as also that deut. 29. 9 , 10 , &c. and that exod. 19. 5 , 6 , and many others : a covenant taken thus generally when it respects spirituall blessings , and spirituall duties , in the communion of saints , is that which is called church-covenant , which church-covenant differs not in substance of the things promised from that which is between the lord and every particular soule , but onely in some other respects ; as first , the one is of one christian in particular , the other of a company joyntly together . secondly , if right order be observed , a man ought not to enter into church-covenant , till he be in covenant with god before , in respect of his personall estate . thirdly , the one is usually done in private , as in a mans closet between the lord and his soule , and the other in some publick assembly . fourthly , the one in these dayes is of such duties as the gospel requires of every christian as a christian , the other of such duties as the gospel requires of every church and the members thereof . now concerning church-covenant , two things are to be noted for the better understanding thereof : first , the description of it : secondly , the use of it , and the benefit and fruit thereof . for the former it may be thus described , viz. a solemne and publick promise before the lord , whereby a company of christians , called by the power and mercy of god to fellowship with christ , and by his providence to live together , and by his grace to cleave together in the unitie of faith , and brotherly love , and defirous to partake together in all the holy ordinances of god , doe in confidence of his gracious acceptance in christ , binde themselves to the lord , and one to another , to walke together by the assistance of his spirit , in all such wayes of holy worship in him and of edification one towards another , as the gospel of christ requireth of every christian church , and the members thereof . in this description , there are compr●●ed six things : first the generall name of the thing : [ a solemne and publick promise ] a promise it is , and therefore it is called , a joyning in covenant here : an entring into covenant , deut. 29. 10. solemne and publick , and therefore it is by the children of israel and the children of iudah together : and they say , let us joyne . secondly , the object [ the lord , and one another ] joyne our selves to the lord . it is not a promise onely to man , but to the lord himselfe , and likewise to one another ; for , come let us joyne , implyes mutuall consent together . thirdly , the agents or the qualification of the persons : [ christians ] not turkes , indians , &c. saints , psal. 50. 5. 16 , 17. [ called to fellowship with christ ] so 1 cor. 1. 9. else if they be not united to christ by faith , they are not fit materialls for such a building as a church of god , which is the house of the living god , ephes. 1. 1. 1 cor. 1. 2. phil. 1. 1. rev. 21. 27. [ by his providence to live together ] else they cannot partake in the lords ordinances together as churches ought to doe , 1 cor. 14. 23. act. 14. 27. the whole church comes together in one place [ cleaving together in faith and love ] so act. 4. 32. if they differ , namely , in opinion , or in their affection , and should joyne in this covenant , breaches , factions , rents , and schismes , would be like to be the issue of such joyning : things so unlike would not close nor long hold together , dan. 2. 43 [ desirous to partake in all ordinances ] this should be the ground of their joyning in covenant together , psal. 110. 3. willing : and not pride , nor gaine , nor the like : fourthly , the act [ binde themselves ] that now they are bound by their owne word and promise , that they may say now , as psal. 56. 12. thy vowes are upon me , or as num. 30. 2. if he binde his soule with a vow . fiftly , the matter promised ; [ to walke together in all such wayes of worship and mutuall edification , as the gospel requireth of churches and church-members ] they binde not themselves to observe any devises of their owne , nor inventions of men , but such things as the word of god requireth ; neither is it perfect obedience to the law , for that were impossible to performe , and presumption to promise ; nor is it onely in generall the duties of the gospel , but specially such duties of worship to god , & edification of one another as concerne church-state , which now they enter into . sixtly , the manner of performing [ confidence of gods gracious acceptance and assistance through christ ] for in all our wayes god must be acknowledged , pro. 3. 6. and much more in such speciall matters of weight : if men in entring into this covenant looke for acceptance , through any worth of their owne , or promise dutie in their own strength , they shew themselves like to the pharisees , luk. 18. 10 , 11. and turne the church-covenant into a covenant of workes : and as many as are of the workes of the law , are under the curse , gal. 3. 10. the use and benefit of this church-covenant , and the fruit thereof , may be seene in two particulars ; first , that this is that whereby a company of christians doe become a church : it is the constituting forme of a church . secondly , this is that by taking hold whereof a particular person becomes a member of a church , which was constituted afore . for the former of these ; every christian church must have in it both matter and forme , and as the matter by gods appointment are visible saints , or visible beleevers , ephes. 1. 1. 1 cor. 1. 2. and in the new testament , onely so many as may meete together in one congregation : so the forme is a uniting , or combining , or knitting of those saints together into one visible body , by the band of this holy covenant . some union or band there must be amongst them , whereby they come to stand in a new relation to god , and one towards another , other then they were in before : or els they are not yet a church , though they be fit materialls for a church ; even as soule and body are not a man , unlesse they be united ; nor stones and timber an house , till they be compacted and conjoyned . now that a company becomes a church , by joyning in covenant , may be made good sundry wayes ; first , by plaine texts of scripture ; as from deut. 29. 1 , 10 , 11 , 12 , 13. yee stand this day all you before the lord your god , your captaines of your tribes , your elders , your officers , with all the men of israel ▪ ver. 10. that thou shouldest enter into covenant with the lord thy god , ver. 12. and he may establish thee for a people unto himselfe , ver. 13. so that here is plain●y shewed , that here was a company , ver. 10. and this company were to be established to be a people unto the lord , that is to say , a church , ver. 13. and this is done by the peoples entring into solemne covenant with god , ver. 12. and therefore a company of people doe become a church by entring into covenant with god . this covenant was not like our church-covenants , for it was of all the nation together ; whereas the church-covenant with us , is of some select persons , leaving out others . 1. this objection concerns the matter of a church , but the covenant is not the materiall cause of a church , but the formall cause thereof : and for this the text is plaine and expresse , that by entring into covenant with god , a people come to be the lords people , that is to say , his church . 2. if it was of all the people together , the reason was because that church was a nationall church : now if a nationall church becomes a church by entring into solemne covenant with god , then a congregationall church becomes a church by the same means ; for there is no difference between them in this point . 3. though it was of all the people , we may not say it proves that when we looke at the materiall cause of a church , there may be a promiscuous taking in of all commers without distinction or separation of the precious from the vile ; for , first , when god took in this nation to be his people , he separated them from all the nations of the earth besides : so that there was a distinction and separation of some from others . secondly , this generation was generally a generation of beleevers ; for it was they that were to enter into the land within a while after ; for they were fortie yeares in the wildernesse , & this covenant , was made in the last moneth save one of the last of those fortie yeares , deut. 1. 3. and their carkasses fell not in the wildernesse through unbeliefe , as their fathers did , num. 14. heb. 3. but entred by faith , and when they were entred , subdued kingdomes by their faith , heb. 11. 33. and served the lord all the dayes of ioshua , and of the elders that outlived ioshua , josh. 24. 31. as for that which is said of them , ver. 4 , 5. of this chap. that the lord had not given them eyes to see , &c. that proves not that they were wholly hardned in a carnall estate , but onely that they were dull and slow of heart to consider of sundry dispensations of god towards them ; for as much is said of the disciples of christ , mar. 8. 17 , 18. when doubtlesse they were not meere carnall or naturall persons . this people deut. 29. could not become the lords people by entring into sol●mne covenant with god , for they were the lords church and people already before this . 1. if they were , yet that was by entring into solemne covenant with god on mount sinai , when the lord had brought them up out of the land of aegypt ; for then they entred into solemne covenant with god , and god with them , and so they became the lords peculiar people , exod. 19 4 , 5 , 6 , 8. &c. if they were his people before that , yet that also was by covenant made with them in the loynes of abraham , when god tooke him and his seede to be his church and people , yet separating ishmael from isaac and esau from iacob , that the inheritance of the covenant of god , and of being the church of god , might rest in the house of iacob . 2. yet it was not without great reason that the lord should now establish them by solemne covenant to be a people to himselfe , because the nation had been much degenerated from the spirit and wayes of abraham in aegypt , and had broken that covenant by their idolatries there , ez●k. 20. 7 , 8. and the covenant made in sinai or horeb when they were come out of aegypt , they had also broken by their idolatries in the wildernesse , ez●k 20. 13 , 16. for which causes , and the like , the lord consumed that generation , that they never entred into the land , iosh. 5. 4 , 6. and therefore now when their posteritie and children were ready to enter in , the lord entred into covenant with them , and thereby established them to be his people , their fathers being cut off for breaking the covenant . but still it was by covenant that both fathers first , and children afterward became a church and people unto god ; and when this generation were entred into the land , their covenant made before between god and them , was confirmed by circumcision , iosh. 5. 3 7. they being not circumcised before . but this covenant was of the whole church with god , and therefore not like our chu●ch-covenants , whi●h are between the church and the members concerning watchfulnesse over one another , and the like . our church covenants are with the lord himselfe , as was shewed before in the description thereof . for watchfu●nesse and duties of edification one towards another , are but branches of the lords covenant , being duties commanded by the law : and so it was with that people of israel , who when they promised and covenanted to walke in all the wayes of god ; in all his statutes and commandements and judgements , they promised these du●ies of love and watch●ulnesse and e●ification one towards another , because these were duties commanded and required o● god , lev. 19. 17 deut. 29 ●8 the neglect whereof in the matter of achan was the sinne of al● the co●gregation , and brought judgement upon them all , iosh 7. 11 , 12. yea by this covenant they were bound to duties towards them that were not then present , but children afterward to beborne , and prosely●es , that afterward should be added to them , ver. 14 , 15. like as our church-covenants are with them that now are , and that hereafter shall become members of the same church . when iehojada made a covenant between the king and the people , 2 king. 11. 17. that covenant was but a branch of the lords covenant with them all , both king and people : for the king promised but to rule the people righteously , according to the will of god : and the people to be subject to the king so ruling . now these duties of the king to them , and of them to the king , were such as god required in his covenant , both of him and them : and so it is in church-covenant , the duties of the church to the members , and the members to the church , and one another , are no other but such as the gospel and the covenant of grace requireth both of the church and the members of it in their severall places . but this place of deut. 29. is not sufficient to prove a church-covenant in these dayes : because it is in the scriptures of the old testament , for whatsoever must be used in the dayes of the new t●stament , must be proved from the scriptures of the new testament , or else it is to be layd aside . 1. the church-covenant may be proved from the new testament also , as will afterwards appeare . 2. but suppose there were not pregnant places for it in the new testament , yet it is not enough to prove the same unlawfull : for whatsoever ordinance of the old testament is not repealed in the new testament , as peculiar to the jewish paedagogie , but was of morall and perpetuall equitie , the same bindes us in these dayes , and is to be accounted the revealed will of god in all ages , though it be not particularly and expressely mentioned in the writings of the new testament , else how shall we prove it unlawfull for a man to marry his sister , or his aunt ? how shall we prove it warrantable and necessary for magistrates to punish sabbath-breaking , blasphemy , and idolatry ? how shall we prove it lawfull to apply the seale of gods covenant unto infants ? or to admit women to eate of the holy things ; for the scriptures of the new testament doe speake little in these cases ; onely the scriptures of the old testament doe give direction , and light about them , lev. 18. & 19. neh. 13. 15. &c. 2 chron. 15. 16. & 2 king. 23. gen. 17. 2. & exod. 12. 4. 6. and the new testament hath nothing to the contrary , and they are all according to morall equitie and reason , and therefore they are to be observed from the scriptures of the old testament , as the revealed will of god , though there were nothing expressely for them in the new . and the same we say of the particular in hand . for , that a company should be combined together into one body , in way of government and subjection , by way of mutuall free covenant ; as men doe when they enter into church estate , nothing is more naturall or agr●eable to morall equitie ; nay , it implyeth a contradiction in the very name of libertie or freedome , that free-men should take upon them authoritie or power over free men without their free consent , and voluntary and mutuall covenant or engagement . and therefore seeing this covenant is not repealed in the scriptures of the new testament , the scriptures of the old are sufficient warrant for it . another scripture to prove the same , is deut. 26. 16 , 17 , 18. with deut. 27. 9. this day the lord hath commanded thee to doe these statutes and iudgements , thou shalt therefore keepe and doe them , &c. thou hast avouched the lord this day to be thy god , and to walke in his wayes , and to keepe his statutes , &c. and the lord hath avouched thee this day to be his peculiar people ; take heed and hearken , o israel , this day thou art become the p●ople of the lord thy god . this scripture plainly shewes these things : 1. that here was the making of a covenant between god and man ; for that avouching of god to them , and them to god , was the making of covenant , ver. 17. 18. 2. this was not of one person , but of a company together , the whole people of israel , 26. 18. & 27. 9. 3 here is the effect of this covenant , that thereby they become the lords people , ver. 9. so that when a company doe enter into holy covenant with god , they become thereby the lords people , that is to say , his church . so ezech. 16. 8. proves the same likewise : i ent●ed into covenant with thee , saith the lord , and thou becam●st mine . here also is the making of covenant between the lord and men ; and this covenant was not personall , but of a company ; for it was with hierusalem , ver. 2. which was a whole citie ; it was with them that were multiplied as the bud of the seild , ver. 7. and it was with them that did prosper into a kingdome , ver. 13. and therefore not meant onely of any one particular person : and by this covenant they became the lords ; that is , the lords church and people ; for it is expresly said , i entred into covenant with thee , and thou becamest mine . so that when a company enter into covenant with god , and god with them , they become thereby the lords church and people . likewise ezek. 20. 37. i will cause you to passe under the rod ; and i will bring you into the bond of the covenant . in which place , there is first mention of an holy covenant . secondly , this was not of one person , but of a company , the whole house of israel , ver. 30. 39. thirdly , and this covenant is called a bond , because it is by covenant that a people are bound , and tyed , and knit together , as one chu●ch , all of them unto the lord , and one unto another ; so that the covenant is the bond of union , by which a company are so combined and united , as that they become a church . it is also obs●rvable , how the lord before he would bring them into this bond of the covenant , he would cause them to passe under the rod ; by which phrase , as iunius upon the place well observes , is meant tryall and probation ; drawne from the manner of shepheards or owners of cattell , who went among their sheepe , or other cattell with a rod , and therewith pointed out such as were for the lords holy use , as lev. 27. 32. and so hereby is noted that god would not ●n the dayes of the gospel have men to be brought into his church hand over head , but he would first cause them to passe under the rod of due tryall and probation ; and then such as upon tryall were found to be holy for god , or meete matter for his church , should solemnly enter into covenant with god , and that covenant should be the bond that should combine them , and knit them together into one , that so they that were many particular persons , should all become one body , that is to say , a church . and so much of the first argument drawne from plaine texts of scripture . a second argument may be taken from the titles that are given to the church ; as first , that the church is said to be married or espoused unto christ , ier. 2. 2. & 3. 14. 2 cor. 11. 2. from whence the argument may be formed thus : if every church becomes a church by being married or espoused unto christ , then a company becomes a church by way of covenant : but the former is true , therefore the latter 〈◊〉 true also . the assumption , that a church becomes a church by being married unto christ , is plai●e from the former scriptures , where the ●hurc● of israel , and the church of corinth , in regard of their e●tring into church estate , are said to be espoused and married unto christ , as a loving and chast virgine to one husband . which spirituall marriage between christ and his church , is also taught in the type of the marriage between king salomon and pharoahs daughter , psal. 45. the consequence of the proposition is plaine in reason ; for there is no marriage but by way of covenant ; no woman becomes a mans wife , but by way of bestowing her selfe in covenant upon such a man : neither doth a man become an husband , but by the same means ; and therefore the scripture speaking of the violation of marriage , calls it a violation of covenant , prov. 2. 17. christ hath but one wife or spouse , cant. 6 9. the catholique church indeed is but one ; viz ▪ the whole company of gods elect in heaven , in earth , dead , now living , and not yet borne : but as there is the church-catholique , which is but one ; so there are particular and visible churches , which are in number many ; and therefore the scripture speakes of churches , 2 cor. 8. 1. 19. gal. 1. 2. of the churches of the gentiles , rom. 16. 4. of seven churches , rev. 1. 4. of all churches , 1 cor. 14 33. & 7. 17. rev. 2. 23. but if every particular church be the wife of christ , how many hundred wives should he have ? 1. if the church of israel , ier. 2. 2. the church of corinth , 2 cor. 11. 2. the jewish church , rev. 19. 7. be the spouse and wife of christ , there is no reason but others should be the same also , especially seeing there is no particular church , but in respect of their church estate , they may decline and goe a whoring from christ , and that shews that they were first espoused to him ; for no woman can be said to got a whoring from a man , if shee were never married , nor espoused to him at all . 2. this that seemes an absurditie , and were a sinfull practise among men , in respect of christ , is a certaine truth , and no dishonour unto him at all , to have more spouses then one upon earth , many spirituall spouses . men cannot give themselves wholly and intirely to many as christ can . every faithfull soule is espoused and married unto christ ; and in that respect he hath not onely many hundred but many thousand , yea many millions of spirituall spouses . but this spirituall marriage is between christ and the church , but the church covenant is between the church and the members , and therefore this marriage doth not prove the church-covenant . 1. in some sort there may be said to be a marriage between the church and the members , viz. in respect of that deare love and affection , that ought to be between them ; and therefore it is said , as a young man marrieth a virgine , so shall the children of the church be married to the church , isa. 62. 5. 2. but properly the marriage is between christ & the church , and so is the covenant also , so farre as therein they give up themselv●s to christ as unto an head and lord ; as a woman in the covenant of m●rriage doth give up her selfe unto her husband ; and the performance of such duties as the church and the member owe one unto another , is a branch of that marriage-covenant , wherein they are tyed to christ ; for christ himselfe in his covenant requires , not onely that they should give up themselves to him , but also that they should performe these duties one unto another . and accordingly it is said of the churches in mac●donia , that they gave up themselves first to the lord , and then to us by the will of god , 2 cor. 8. 5. true it is , they doe also binde th●mselves by covenant one unto another , but in that respect the covenant is p●operly a brotherly covenant ; like that 1 sam. 20. 8. am●s . 1. 9. because there the engagement is to one another as brethren , fellow members , and fellow-helpers , and not as to one head or lord , as it is in respect of christ , and therefore in that respect it is not so properly a marriage-covenant as it is in respect of christ : though duties to one another are promised in their covenant with one another , and also in their covenant with christ . in briefe thus : they promise unto christ duties to him , and duties to one another according to him : and so their covenant is a marriage-covenant with christ : they promise also to one another , duties to one another , and so it is a brotherly covenant . another title given to the church ( which also proves that a church is made by covenant ) is the title of a citie , or citie of god , psal. 87 3. & 48 1. 8. & 122. 3. ephes 2. 19. the argument lyeth thus . if a true church be a citie of god , then a church becomes a church by covenant : but every true church is a citie of god . ergo . the assumption is proved by the scriptures forealledged . the consequence of the proposition is plaine in reason , for every citie is un●ted by some covenant among themselves , the citizens are received unto 〈◊〉 civitatis , or right of citie priviledges , by some covenant or oath ; and therefore it is so likewise in this citie of god the church ; and men become citizens of the church by solemne covenant . the third argument may be drawne from the meanes of reforming and restoring a church when it is corrupted , which is by entring into covenant a new with god , 2 chron. 15. 10. & 29. 10. & neh. 9. 38. & 10. 28 , 29 ier. 50. 4 , 5. the reason may be taken thus : if a church decayed is to be restored and refo●med by renuing covenant with god , then it was instituted and erected at the first by way of covenant : the reason of which consequence is , because abuses and corruptions are to be reformed by bringing things back to the first institution : thus christ re●ormes the abuses of marriage , by bringing them to the first institution of that ordinance ; from the beginning it was not so , mat. 19. 8. and thus paul reformeth the abuses of the lords supper , by telling them what was the first institution thereof , 1 cor. 11. 23 &c. and thus the lord jesus calling on the declining church of ephesus for reformation , bids her remember from whence shee is fallen , and repent and doe her first workes . rev. 2. 5. now the assumption is plaine from the texts above alledged , that at the reforming of a church , there is to be a renuing of covenant ; and thence it follows , that at the first erecting of a church , there was the making of a covenant with god , for els this renuing of covenant would not have been the way to reforme it . the fourth argument is taken from that which doth dissolve a church , which is the dissolving or breaking of the covenant , zach. 11. 9 , 10 14. if dissolving the covenant be that which doth dissolve the church , then the making of covenant is that which constitutes a church . the reason of the consequence is plaine , because otherwise the covenant might be dissolved & the church stand still , if it were not the making of the covenant that did constitute the church : but if dissipating stones in a building doe dissolve the house , then the compacting and conjoyning of them is that which makes the house ; if separation of soule and body be that which destroyes the man , that then we say he is not : it must needs be the uniting of them , that did constitute & make the man : and so it is 〈…〉 case . and that dissolving the covenant is that which dis●ol●ves a church , is plaine from the text alledged , zach. 11. where the breaking of the two staves , of beautie and bands , that is , the unchurching of the jewes , is interpreted to be the breaking of the covenant that god had made with that people , and the brotherhood that was between iudah and israel . the fifth argument is taken from the distinction which god hath appointed amongst churches , and the confounding of all churches into one , if there be not this covenant to distinguish them . if churches be distinct societies , and may not be confounded , then churches are compacted and combined by covenant : but the former is true . ergo . that churches are distinct societies , is plaine in the scripture , where we have mention of many churches in one countrey or province , gal. 1. 1. 1 thes. 2. 14. of seven churches in asia , rev. 1. 4. and of all the churches , 1 cor. 14. 33. rev. 2. 23. ephesus is not smyrna , nor smyrna is not thyatira , nor either of them pergamus , but each one distinct of themselves , having officers of their owne , which did not belong to others : vertues of their owne for which others are not praised , corruptions of their owne , for which others are not blamed ; if it were not thus , then when laodi●ea is condemned for lukewarmenesse , or ephesus for declining , all the rest should be reproved also : and when philadelfia is praised , all the rest should be praised also , which we see is otherwise . now from hence the consequence is certaine , that therefore they are combined by some covenant each one amongst themselves ; for there is nothing els without this that wil sufficiently distinguish them . the spirit of god and faith in their hearts , is common to all christians under heaven , and in heaven also , and therefore this is not the thing that makes distinction . nor is it habitation in the same towne together , for that may be common to such christians as are not of this church , and usually is to many that are no christians . as it is with companies in london ; as the company of goldsmiths , &c. that many others dwell in the same towne with them , yea it may be in the same streete that are not of their company : and therefore it is not meerely habitation that doth distinguish them from others , but some combination and agreement amongst themselves ; so it is not habitation in the same towne that distinguisheth churches , and church-members from other men , but their mutuall agreement and combination and joyning themselves together in an holy covenant with god . if the spirit of god and faith in their hearts cannot distinguish one church from another , because these are common to them all , then how can covenant distinguish them , sith all churches are joyned by covenant one as well as another ? it is not a covenant simply or a covenant in generall that doth constitute a church , or distinguish one church from another , but a covenant with application and appropriation to these persons . even as it is in marriage , though all married couples be united by covenant , and a covenant , wherein one couple promiseth the same duties that another couple doth yet a covenant with application and appropriation of the duties covenanted to this man and this woman in particular , such a covenant is the very thing that make a couple , man and wife together , and gives them mutuall power over each other , as husband and wife , and puts a distinction between them and all other men and women in the world . and so it is in this case ; a covenant to performe church-duties with application and appropriation to such persons , is the very thing that constitutes a church , and distinguisheth one church from another . and thus much concerning the former of the two particulars , to shew the use of church-covenant , viz. that it is that whereby a company doe become a church . the second particular is this , taking hold of the covenant , or joyning in it , is that which makes a particular person a member of a church . and this followes upon the former , and that may be the first argument to prove it . if joyning in covenant be that which makes a company to become a church , then taking hold of that covenant is requisite to make a particular person become a member of the church : but the first is true , as hath been shewed before ; therefore the second is true also : if compacting and conjoyning of stones and pieces of timber , be that that makes an house , then a particular stone cannot become a part of that house , till it be compacted and conjoyned to the rest : but the former is true , even in the church of god , which is the spirituall spouse and citie of god , living stones , christians , beleevers must be compacted together , and builded up together , ephes. 2. 21. 22. psal. 122. 3. and therefore the latter is true also , that a particular christian becomes a member of the church , a part of that building by being combined with the rest . a second argument may be drawne from the scripture , isa. 56. 3 , 6 , 7. let not the sonne of the stranger , that hath joyned himselfe to the lord , speake , saying , the lord hath utterly separated me from his people , &c. the sonnes of the strangers that joyne themselves to the lord , to serve him , &c. and take hold of my covenant , even them will i bring to my holy mountaine , and make them joyfull in my house of prayer , &c. concerning which scripture , note three things to the present purpose . first , that these strangers were members of christ , true beleevers , joyned to god by faith ; for it is said , they have joyned themselves to the lord , v. 3 & v. 6. that they loved the name of the lord , served him , and kept his sabbaths , v. 6. and yet for all this they were not as yet joyned , as members of the visible church , for if they had been ioyned , there would have been no cause for such a complaint , the lord hath separated me from his people , v. 3. besides , bringing them into the church as members , and granting them the priviledge of members , is promised as a reward and blessing upon this their joyning to the lord by faith and obedience , v. 7. and therefore it is not the same , but a disti●ct thing from it ; the one being promised as a reward and blessing upon the other . secondly , the lord promiseth that he will make them members of his church : them will i bring to my holy mountaine , and make them joyfull in my house of prayer . thirdly , that among other things requisite to make them members , this was one , viz. the taking hold of that covenant which was between the church of israel and god , v. 6. so that hence we may gather , that men may be members of christ , joyned to the lord by faith and love , and yet for the present not be members of the visible church : and that when god is so gracious to true beleevers , as to make them members of his visible church , it is requisite that they joyne in covenant before . but might not faith in christ , beleeving in heart on the god of israel , be all the taking hold of the covenant that is here meant . not so , but over and above that , here is also meant their open profession of their faith in the god of israel , and open binding of themselves by covenant to all such duties of faith and obedience , as god required of the church of israel , and the members thereof . now distinctly take the answer to this objection in three or foure particular propositions . first , there was a covenant between the church of israel and god , exod. 19. 5 , 6 , 7 , 8. ezek 16. 8. deut. 29. 10. &c. secondly , this covenant was mutuall ; not onely a promise on gods part to be their god , and to take them for his people , but also reciprocally on their part to give up themselves unto god to be his people , and to doe the dutie of people to their god ; the covenant is not meerely to receive from god , and promise nothing back againe to him ; nor doth god binde himselfe therein , and leave men at libertie , but it is mutuall on both parts , as these scriptures declare ; gen. 17. 1. exod. 19. 7. 8. deut. 5. 27. & 6. 16 , 17. hos. 2. 23. & zach. 13. 9. thirdly , hereupon it followes , that if men had not promised , and also performed , in some measure of truth , the duties of faith and obedience unto god , they had not taken hold of the covenant , but had discovenanted themselves , notwithstanding all the promises of god unto their fathers or others . thus though god promised abraham to be a god to him , and to his seede in their generations , gen. 17. 7. yet the ishma●lites and edomites descending from abraham , were discovenanted by not promising nor performing those duties of faith and obedience , which god required on the peoples part : when a covenant containes promises on gods part , and duties also on mans , he doth not take hold of the covenant that takes one part , and leaves another . fourthly , to beleeve what god promised in the covenant for his part , and to promise in a private way the duties of obedience on mans part , was not sufficient to make these strangers members of the church , but they must doe it openly and in the view of the church , else the church could have had no warrant to have admitted such into their fellowship , if their faith and obedience had not been visibly professed , exod. 12. 43. 48 2 chron. 23. 19. and in as much as the covenant was mutuall , when these strangers did manifest their taking hold of the covenant , they manifested and professed both faith and obedience , both that they beleeved what god promised , and that they would be obedient to what he required ; if any shou●d have claimed church-fellowship , saying , i beleeve the promises , but would not binde himselfe to any duties of evangelicall obedience , this had been a taking hold of the covenant by the halves , a taking of one part of it in seeming and pretence , and a leaving of another ; but it would not have been sufficient to have brought a man into the fellowship of the church : such of the congregation of israel as would not come to hierusalem to enter into covenant , were to be separated from the church in the dayes of ezrya , ezra 10. 8. and therefore such as being strangers should refuse to enter into it , could not be admitted into the church ; so that the taking hold of gods covenant , which is there required to make these strangers members of the church , is a beleeving in heart on the god of israel , and an open profession that they did beleeve , and likewise a promise of obedience or subjection unto the god of israel , and an open professing of such obedience and subjection ; and that is the joyning in covenant which we stand for , before a man can be a member of a church , even an open profession of faith and of obedience . a third argument is taken from those scriptures which shew that men become members by being added to the church , or being joyned to them , act. 2. 47. & 5. 13. & 9. 26. if men become members of the church by being added or joyned , then joying in covenant ( or professing of subjection to the gospel or covenant of god ) is that whereby a man becomes a member of a church : but the former is true , as appeares by the scriptures forementioned , and therefore the latter is true also . but all the doubt in this argument will be concerning the consequence of the major proposition ; but that may be made good by this reason , and the confirmation of it , viz. that a man cannot be added or joyned to the church by any other meanes without this joyning in covenant . the truth of which assertion will appeare by shewing the insufficiency of all other means , without this joyning in covenant , and that may be done in answer to the objections ensuing . when men were added to the church , it may be , no more is meant but tha● god did convert them and worke faith in their hearts , and that converting of them was the adding of them to the church . this cannot be all ; for , first , saul was converted and had faith wrought in his heart , and yet he was not at the first received for a member of the church at hierusalem ( though he assayed to be joyned unto them , ) till they were better satisfied in his spirituall estate by the testimony of barnabas , act. 9. 26 , 27 , 28. and those strangers , isa. 56. ( as was said before ) were joyned to the lord by being converted , and having faith wrought in their hearts , and yet they doe lament it with griefe , that they were not joyned as members to the visible church : the lord hath separated me from his people , say they , ver. 3. the old saying is true concerning the visible church , there are many wolves within , and many sheepe without . secondly , those that were joyned were beleevers before they joyned ; for it is said , divers were added , ver. 14. thirdly , those that were added to the church , were added and joyned to them by such an act as others durst not put forth , act. 5. 13. of the rest durst no man joyne unto them , and therefore it was not by the irresistable act of god in converting of them , but by some volun●ary act of their owne choice and consent ; for gods converting grace depends not upon mans daring , or not daring to receive it . if to be joyned be no more but to be converted , then when it is said , some durst not be joyned , the meaning should be , they durst not be converted , nor suffer faith to be wrought in them ; which is grosse arminianisme , suspending the converting grace of god upon the free will of the creature . fourthly , and as this joyning which others durst not doe , cannot be meant of being converted ; so if it be well considered , what the thing was wherein they durst not joyne , it may appeare that it was nothing els but this , that they durst not agree , and engage themselves to be of their body and societie ; that is , they durst not joyne in covenant with them . for it cannot be meant of dwelling in the towne with them , for this they both durst doe and did : nor is it onely of joyning to heare the word in their assembly , for this also they durst doe , and many did it in great multitudes , so that many by hearing the word became beleevers , and were added to the lord both of men and women , ver. 14. at this very time when it is said of some they durst not joyne unto them : nor is it of joyning to them in affection , or approbation of their way , for this they also durst doe and did expresse so much in magnifying and commending them , when yet they durst not joyne unto them , ver. 13. which magnifying of them doth imply that they heard their doctrine , and saw their practise , and approved it , and highly commended them for the same : wherefore seeing this joyning , which some durst not doe , cannot be meant of being converted , nor of joyning in habitation , nor of joyning in affection , nor in hearing the word in their assembly , nor of approbation , and expressions that way , it remaineth that it must be meant of joyning in that neere relation of church-fellowship amongst them , so as to be engaged by voluntary consent and agreement to be members of their church . fiftly , if joyning to the church , were no more but to be converted , then he that were converted were joyned as a member of every visible church throughout the world , which were a great confusion of that order , and distinction of churches , which the lord hath appointed . men may be joyned to the church , in heartie affection and love , and yet without any covenant . true , but this will not make them members of that church , for then saul was member of the church at hierusalem , afore he was joyned a member , for he was joyned to them in heartie affection afore , and therefore assayed to joyne as a member ; and so were they that durst not joyne , act. 5. 13. yea then a man should be a member of many churches , yea of all christian churches in the world ; for he is to love them , and beare heartie affection to them all ; the true members of the churches in england are united in heartie affection , to the churches in scotland , in holland , in france , in new-england , &c. and yet they are not members of all these churches , nor subject to their censures as members are . but the reason of that is because they doe not dwell among them in the same towne . neither would habitation with them in the same towne , make a man a member of the church there , if there be no more then so . suppose saul to have dwelt in the same house afore his conversion in which he dwelt after , which is not unpossible nor unlikely ; yet we see he was no member of the church at hierusalem , afore his conversion , no nor of some time after , though he might have dwelt in an house in the midst of the christians , and church-members there . the members of the dutch and french churches in london , or other townes in england , are not members of the english●congregations or churches , no more then the english are of theirs , and yet they dwell promiscuously together in the same s●recte of the same towne . towne-dwelling would not make a man a free-man of a company in london , or some other corporation ; for many others dwell in the towne with them ; yea it may be in the same streete , that are not free of their company , and so it is in this case . but the reason why such as dwell in towne with the church , are not members thereof , may be , because they frequent not their assemblies . idiots and infidells might come into the publick meetings among the corinthians , 1. cor. 14. 23 , 24 , 25. yet idiots and infidells were not therefore members of the church . and saul after his conversion might have come in among the church in time of publick duties , and have seene and heard all that they had done : yet this would not have made him of one body with them . some indians , moores , and other naturall persons come into our meetings in new-england , some of their owne accord , and others by the command or counsell of their masters and governours , yet no man can say , that all these are hereby made church-members . wherefore seeing neither conversion , nor loving affection , nor cohabitation , nor coming into their meetings , doth joyne a man as a member of the visible church ( for some men have all these , and yet are not members , and others are sometimes members of the visible churches , and yet want some of these , are hypocrites and want sound conversion ) it remaineth therefore that as sound conversion makes a man fit matter for a church ; so profession of his faith , and of his subjection to the gospel , and the churches approbation , and acceptance of him ( which is the summe of church-covenant ) is the formall cause that gives him the being of a member . but joyning doth not alway signifie joyning in covenant ; philip joyned to the eunnuchs chariote , and dust to mens feete , act. 8. 29. & luke 10 , 11. and yet there was no covenant , and therefore men may joyne to the church without any covenant . the word indeed may expresse any close joyning , whether naturall , ( as the branch is joyned to the vine , or an arme or other member to the body ) or artificiall , as when two stickes were joyned to become one in ezekiels hand , ezek. 37. or when carpenters or masons doe joyne pieces of stone or timber together , to make one house , neh. 4. 6. ezr. 4. 12. but is not onely the force of the word that is stood upon . but when joyning is used to expresse such joyning , wherein a man voluntarily takes on him a new relation , there it alwayes implyes a covenant , whether the relation be morall and civill , or religious and ecclesiasticall : we speake of voluntary relation , for there are naturall relations , as betweene parents and children : and these need no covenant , there is no covenant to make a man a parent , or a childe ; there are also violent relations , as between conquerour and captives , and in these there is no covenant neither ; but others are voluntary , and these alwayes imply a covenant , and are founded therein , whether they be morall and civill ( as between husband and wife , pro. 2. 17. between master and servants , luk. 15. 15. between prince and subject , between partners in trade , 2 chro. 20. 35 , 36 , 37. where the covenant or agreement is , that men shall bare such a share of charges , and receive such a share of profits : ) or religious , as between minister and people , between the church and the members : all these are done by way of covenant . a man cannot joyne himselfe to a woman as her husband , but by way of covenant : a man cannot joyne himselfe to another as a servant , or apprentise , but by way of covenant ; and so may we say of all the rest ▪ nor into any body corporate , but by the same way and means . if men be united into a body politick or incorporate , a man cannot be said to be joyned to them by meere heartie affection , unlesse withall he joynes himselfe unto them by some contract or covenant . now of this nature is every particular church , a body incorporate , 1 cor. 12. 27. yee are the body of christ , &c. and hath power to cast out , 1 cor. 2. 7 ▪ 8 as a body incorporate ; and therefore he that will joyne unto them , must doe it by way of covenant or agreement ; and so this answer to this objection , may be a fourth argument to prove the point in hand , that joyning in covenant is that which makes a man , a member of a church . all voluntary relations , all relations which are neither naturall nor violent , are entred into by way of covenant . but he that joynes into a church as a member , or enters into a church , doth take upon him such a relation ; therefore joyning to a church as a member , is by way of covenant . a fifth argument may be drawne from the power which all churches , officers and members , have over all their members in the lord . if all churches , officers , and members , have power in the lord over all their members , then joyning in covenant is necessary to make a man a member of a church , but the former is true , therefore the latter is true also . the assumption in this argument , that all churches have power over their members , is proved from 1 cor. 5. 4 , 5. 13. where the apostle reproveth the corinthians for suffering the incestuous man amongst them , and commands them to deliver him to sa●an , and cast him out from amongst them . now this he would not have done , if they had had no power over him , or if there had been any roome for them to say , wee have nothing to doe with him , wee have no power over him . and the same is prooved in other scriptures also ; as , mat. 18. 17. psal. 149. 6. 7 , 8 , 9. and the consequence of the major proposition , viz. that then members doe engage themselves by covenant , is proved by this reason ; that churches have no power over such as have not engaged themselves by covenant , and committed power unto them , by professing to be subject to all the ordinances of christ amongst them . the truth whereof may appeare by two reasons : first , because all christians have power and right , jure divino , to choose their owne officers to whom they commit their soules , act. 6. & 1. & 14 23. where the word {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , imports choosing by election : and so the word is used and translated , 2 cor. 8. 19. he was chosen by the churches , &c. it is not ministeriall gifts that makes a man a minister to every church , nor investeth him with spirituall power over them , nor though he dwell amongst them , unlesse they call him , and he accept of that call : and as they have power to choose their officers , so likewise to choose their brethren according to god , rom. 14. 1. now if they have power to choose their officers and brethren , then none can have power over them as officers and brethren , without their owne consent , and whom they never chose , nor promised by any covenant or engagement to be subject to the lord . secondly , if the church should exercise any act of church-power over such a man as never entred into covenant with them ( suppose to excommunicate him for whoredome or drunkennesse , or the like ) the man might protest against their act , and their sentence , as coram non judice , and they could not justifie their proceedings , if indeed there have passed no covenant or engagement between him and them . if he shall say , you have nothing to doe to passe sentence or censure upon me , i am none of your church , but of another church ; suppose in holland , in france , &c. and i am onely here now for merchandise sake , or upon some other occasion : what shall they say to stop his mouth , if there never passed any covenant between him and them . but ministers have power over the people by the word of god , heb. 13. 17. 1 thes. 5. 12. 1 tim. 5. 17. and not by mens engaging themselves by covenant . but what is it that makes men ministers to such a people , officers to such a church , or maketh them sheepe of my flocke ? is it not those scriptures that makes every man a pastour , or teacher , or ruler to a people , unlesse they call him to that office ; and then in so doing they covenant and engage themselves to be subject to him in the lord , and then those scriptures take hold on them . one might as well say , it is not the covenanting of a wife to her husband that gives him power over her , but the word of god ; for as the word of god commands people to obey their ministers , so it commands wives to be subject to their husbands , ephes. 5. 22. and yet all men know , a man cannot take this woman for his wife but by covenant . so that if shee once makes her selfe a wife by her owne voluntary covenant , then the word of god takes hold on her , and bindes her to doe the duties of a wife : but if shee , hath made no covenant , the man hath no power over her as her husband , neither is shee his wife ; so if men once make themselves members of such a church , sheepe of such a mans flocke , by their own voluntary covenant , then the wo●d of god takes hold of them , and bindes them to doe the duties of members to their fellow-brethren , and of people to their pastours or ministers . but if they never chose such a man to be their minister , nor covenanted to be subject to him in the lord , he then can have no power over them as a minister unto them , because they have right to chose their owne ministers . a sixth argument may be taken from the distinction that is between members , and not members . if there be by the word of god a distinction , between members of the church and such as are no members , then joyning in covenant is necessary to the being of a member ; but the former is true , as appeares 1 cor. 5. 12. some are within , and may be judged by the church , and others are without , and may not : and therefore the latter is true also . and the reason of the consequence is because there is nothing else without this joyning in covenant , that can sufficiently distinguish them ; it is not faith and grace in their hearts , for some men are members of the visible church , and yet have no grace , and others may have grace , and yet be no members , and therefore this is not the thing that doth distinguish them , nor is it affection , nor cohabitation , nor every approbation of the word of god , and the wayes of his church , not comming into their assemblies to heare the word ; but these things were touched before , and therefore may be here the more briefly passed over . and so much shall suffice to have spoken of the second particular , concerning the use of church-covenant , tha●●t is by joyning therein that a particular person becomes a member of a church . but here it will be needfull to remove sundry objections , which may seeme to some to be of great weight against church-covenant , that so by the removing of them , the truth may be the more cleared , to fu●ler satisfaction , if it be the will of god . church-covenant is a terme that is not found in s●ripture . first , so is sacrament , trinitie , &c. and yet those termes may be lawfully used , because the thing meant thereby is found . secondly , but seeing the covenant is between the lord and his church , as the two parties that are confederate , it is all one whether it be called the lords covenant , or the church-covenant : as when mamre , aver , & eschol were confederate with abraham , gen. 14. 13. might not one truely say , abraham was confederate with them ? relatives doe mutually put and establish one another . thirdly , the scripture allowes both the lords covenant with the church , eze. 16. 8. & the peoples covenant or saints covenant , or churches covenant with him , deut. 29. 12. psal. 50. 5. ier. 50. 5. fourthly , there is good reason for both the words ; both the lords covenant , and the church-covenant , because both are confederate ; and for that of church-covenant , there is this reason also , viz. to distinguish it from other covenants , as a marriage-covenant , pro. 2. 17. and a brotherly covenant , 1 sam. 20. 8. the church covenant being thus called not onely because they are a church , or members thereof that make it , but also because they enter into it in reference to church-estate and church-duties : the duties which they bind themselves unto in this covenant being such especially as concern a church and the members thereof . but this church-covenant puts some disparagement upon the covenant of grace , which every beleever is already entred into with god , and seeme to charge the same with insufficiency ; for every second covenant doth argue that the first was not faultlesse , heb. 8. 7. 1. a second covenant doth argue that the first was not faultlesse , where the covenants are contrary one to another , as the covenant of ●race , and the covenant of works are , and so it is most true , that the bringing in of the free covenant of grace did argue that righteousnes and life could not be attained by the law , or covenant of works ; for if there had been a law given which could have given life , verily righteousnesse should have been by the law . gal. 3. 21. rom. 8. 3. 2. but if it be the same covenant that is renewed or made againe , though upon a new occasion , no man can say that entring into the same the second time , or a third , or a fourth , doth disanull the first , or cast dispa●agement upon the same . the covenant of works given to adam was not blamed or saulted , because it was renewed in sinai the covenant of grace was first given to adam in paradise after his fall , afterward to abraham , then to the people of israel under types and shadows ; and againe after the coming of christ in the flesh ; yet none of these doth disanull the former , or argue the same to be ●aulty ; and the reason is , because it is still the same covenant though renewed upon new occasions ; and in some particulars in some other manner . and the like we say concerning church-covenant , or the covenant which a man makes when he enters into the church , viz. that it is not another covenant contrary to the covenant of grace , which every beleever is brought into at his first conversion , but an open profession of a mans subjection to that very covenant , specially in the things which concerne church estate , into which estate the man is now entring . it is not lawfull to make such a covenant as the church-covenant , because it is not in our power to keep it , and we do not know whether god will give us power . this ground is very true , that no man hath power of himselfe to any thing that good is , but all a mans power and abilitie must come of god through ch●ist , 2. cor. 3. 5. phil. 2. 13. ioh. 15. 5. but the in●erence is not good , that therefore it should be unlawfull to ento into church-covenant : for 1. by the same reason , all promises are unlawfull , and all covenants whatsoever ; as the covenant of marriage , the covenant of service , yea and the personall covenant o● grace , when a particular soule promiseth faith and new obedience ; for there is none of these , no not the covenant of marriage , which a man is able of himself to keep , as the adultery of david and bathsheba , among others , doth plainly prove . 2. god hath promised to give power to them that in self-deniall seek it of him , and trust to his promise for it . ezek. 36. 27. ier. 31. 33. rom. 6. 14. ier. 32. 40. the true inference therefore from this ground , from mans disabilitie to performe were this , that therefore a man should not enter into church covenant in his owne strength , for that was peters fault in promising not to deny christ , but to die with him rather : but church-covenant , as also all other promises , should be entred into , in an humble looking up to christ jesus for help and assistance to performe . thou therefore my sonne , be strong in the grace that is in christ iesus , 2. tim. 2. 1. god disalloweth covenants of mans making ( and so our church-covenant ) in those words , but not by thy covenant . ezek. 16. 61. god doth not reprove them there for making covenant , for then he were contrary to himselfe , who elsewhere called them to do it , exod. 29. deut. 29. and commended them for it , psal. 50. 5. yea and in that very place of ezek. 16. acknowledgeth a covenant betweene him and them , ver. 60. 62. but the meaning is , he would do them good , but not for their good keeping the covenant of works , for they had very sinfully broken it , ver. 59. but even as he saith elsewhere , not for their sakes , or for their righteousnesse , ezek. 36. 32. deut. 9. 4 , 5 , 6. but what force is there in this arguing , viz. if god will do us good , but not for our good keeping the covenant of works , then it is not lawfull to promise obedience to the covenant of grace , in such things as concerne church estate ; all men may easily see that here is a plaine non sequitur . this entring into covenant may keep out many good men from joyning to the churches , because they are not satisfied about it : and therefore it is better laid aside . it is not impossible , but good men may for a time be unsatisfied about it , till they understand the nature and use of it , and yet the thing be warrantable enough for all that in the sight of god ; the tribes were troubled at the altar set up upon the banks of jordan by the two tribes and an halfe , till they understood the intent and use of it , and for what purpose it was erected : and then they were satisfied . iosh. 22. and the same may be said of peters eating with the gentiles , which at the first was very offensive to them of the circumcision , till they understood what peter had to say for his defence therein , and then they rested well satisfied , act. 11. but if men understand what the church-covenant is , there is no reason that good men should be troubled at it ; it being nothing else but a promise of obedience unto the gospel of christ , or of such duties as the gospel requireth of all christians in church-estate : for , will good men refuse to obey the gospel , or submit to the ordinances of christ ? or will they refuse to professe and promise so much ? if a man understand what it is , and what we meane by it , and yet refuse to enter into it when he hath opportunitie thereto , such refusing is no part of his goodnesse , but is to be reckoned amongst his corruptions ; it is ignorance at the best , and if not so , then it may be perversenesse of will , or some want of will to performe obedience to the gospel . and surely there is smal hope that such would yeeld subjection and obedience to the gospel , who do refuse to professe or promise it . but the scripture , act. 2. 41. tels of joyning to the church without any covenant . for it was not possible that 3000. should enter into covenant in one day . two things may be said in answer to this objection . first , that 3000. were not so many , but that joyning in covenant might easily be done by them all , in one day . for , 1. it was at penticost , at which time of the yeer the dayes were at the longest : and , 2. the scripture tels us , that david made a covenant with all the tribes of israel in one day , 2. sam. 5 1 , 2 , 3. the articles of the covenant betweene david and the tribes , and so betweene this 3000. and the lord might be openly declared , and they both the one and the other might by some signe or other , expresse their consent thereunto in one day . secondly , as joyning in covenant is a thing that might be done , so it is more then probable that indeed it was done , by those 3000. soules . for it is said , ver. 41 that they gladly received the word , that is , they openly professed that they did with all their hearts receive it , for this receiving of the word is noted as a condition , upon which they were admitted to baptisme , and therefore it was not onely an inward receiving of it in their hearts , but also an open professing that they did receive it ; for an inward receiving of it in their hearts , without an open professing thereof outwardly , would not have been sufficient for the admitting of them unto bapti●me . now this word which they received was an exhortation to repentance for sinne , and to faith in the promise , ver. 38. 39. and to obedience in severing themselves from others , and saving themselves from that untoward generation , ver. 40. and therefore when they openly professed , that they gladly received this word , there was an open professing of their repentance for sinne , ver. 40. of their faith in the promise , and of obedience to the commandement , which is nothing else , but the very summe of church-covenant : yea , and further , their very preparation to this repentance , faith and obedience , in that true compunction and sorrow of soul , was also openly made manifest . ver. 37. but yet there would not be such long narrations , of every one severally as now are used , when men do enter into church-covenant , when each one makes a good long speech , in the profession of his faith and repentance . when the thing is certaine , as was shewed before , that they did openly professe repentance , faith and obedience , it is not difference in the length or largenesse of their spe●ches in expressing of themselves , that can make any difference in the thing : majus & minus non diversisicant speciem . and we denie not but they might be briefer , because there was not such need they should be long in regard of some difference betweene them and us , their time and ours : first there were the apostles present to heare their confessions , and to judge thereof , who were men of very good discerning , and therefore briefer expressing of mens selves might suffice ; whereas the best christians , yea the best ministers amongst us are not to be compared to the apostles ; and therefore as we need more time for study , and for preparation for our sermons then they did : so likewise we need more time to heare , and try the soundnesse of mens repentance towards god , and faith towards our lord jesus christ . yet this we may adde withall , that if the apostles and those primative christians , men of such excellent discerning were sometimes deceived , and could not alwayes so discern , but that some hypocrites would creep into the church : as the example of ananias and saphira doth witnesse ; how much more need is there , that the churches of god in these dayes ( being far inferiour to them ) should be very watchfull and circumspect in trying the spirituall estates of them that offer to come into the church ? secondly , their times also differed from ours : for their christianitie was a matter of reproach and danger of excommunication , ioh. 9. 22. of imprisonment , act. 4. 3. and 5. 18. and the like . and therefore to see men now to make open profession of their faith in christ jesus , whose servants and disciples were so hated , and who himselfe but a while before was crucified , this was not an ordinarie matter : and therefore in words , men might be the briefer when they came to be received into the church : but our times in new england do not persecute christ , and christians , and christian churches , but countenance them , and protect them ; and therefore there is more need now to be more studious in examination of mens estates when they offer themselves for church members : when the jews were in favour , many of the people of the land became jews , esth. 8. 17. but why is there so little proofe of this church-covenant in the new testament ? 1. suppose the new testament said nothing of it , yet it might have ground sufficient from the scriptures of the old testament ; for if it was gods revealed will in those dayes , that a companie should become a church , and particular persons become members of that church by way of covenant , we may be sure it is so now likewise , unlesse covenanting were peculiar to the jewish paedigogie ; indeed if it had never been used in those times , but were some new ordinance , peculiar to the dayes of the new testament , in such cases also a ground from the scriptures of the new testament were necessarie , as there is in all such things wherein there is any change or variation , from what was used in those times afore christ , as that there should not be nationall churches , but congregationall , and not one visible church , but many , that there should be baptisme , and the lords supper : these are matters that are not found in the old testament , nor were appointed to be used in those dayes , and therefore we must have warrant for them in the new , and so we have . but for the covenant it is otherwise , it is no new ordinance peculiar to the dayes of the gospel , nor any leviticall ordinance peculiar to the jewish pedigogie ; and therefore the scriptures of the old testament that give warrant for it , may be sufficient as hath been shewed afore . 2. and yet there is not wanting good warrant for it , that it ought to be used , in the dayes of the new testament . for , 1. the prophets do foretell it , isa 56 , 6 , 7 , and 44 5. and ier. 50. 5. ez●k , 20. 37. and in sundrie other places , to omit the rest at this time , because some of them have been spoken of before ; onely let those words of isa. 44. 5. be well considered , and see if they do not plainly hold forth that in the dayes of the new testament , men should openly professe their faith , and solemnly bind themselves by coven●nt to be the lords people , one shall say , i am the lords , and another shall call himself by the name of iacob , and another shall subscribe with his hand , and sirname himself by the name of israel . these words are so plaine for open professing of faith in the lord , and open binding of mens selves by covenant unto him , as we conceive nothing need be more . 2. the apost●es do sufficiently testifie , that such a thing was practised in heir dayes , 〈◊〉 how should we understand that fellowship in the gospel in its full latitude and breadth , phil. 1. 5. if this combining into church fellowship be no part thereof ; yea when it is said , they continued stedfastly , or as the word {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , may well be translated , they strongly did cleave together , or hold together in such a fellowship , which was not preaching and hearing the doctrine of the apostles , nor sacraments , no● prayer , but a thing distinct from all these . if this combining themselves into a spirituall fellowship and societie of church-state be no part thereof , we know not how to understand it , nor what that fellowship should meane ; if doctrine , and sacraments , and prayer had not been particularly mentioned , in the same place , it might have been thought that the fellowship in which they so steadfastly clave together had been no more , but their coming together to observe these said ordinances , and their communion therein . but when all these are particularly mentioned , and fellowship mentioned among them , as a thing distinct from the rest , we may not confound it with the rest . we might as well say , that by doctrine is meant sacraments , and by sacraments is meant prayer ; as to say that by fellowship is meant not●ing else but the exercise of doctrine , and sacraments , and prayer . and if these as they are distinctly named be distinct ordinances , and may not be confounded , then fellowship being named in the same manner imports something distinct from them all , and may not be confounded with them , nor with any of them , no more then the other may be confounded one with another . and if so , then as this fellowship may import , the communion of their gift and goods one for the helpe of another , so it must first of all imply a combining of themselves into church-state by mutuall ag●eement , consent , or covenant . furthermore , when the apostle writ●th , that by experience of the corinthians liberall contribution to the poore saints , men glorified god for their professed subjection to the gospel of christ , 2. cor. 9. 13. he plainly imployes thereby , that the corinthians had made a profession or promise of such subjection to the gospel as did comprehend this particular of distributing to the necessitie of the saints , among other things . and their liberall distribution which he there speaks of , was looked at as one point of their reall performance of that subjection to the gospel , which they had before professed , and promised . now the church-covenant is nothing else , but the professing or promising of such subjection , and therefore this place is another proofe of church-covenant . besides , it hath been shewed afore in argument 3. that those places which speake of being added to the church , of joyning , or assaying to joyne unto the church , act. 2. 47. and 5 13. and 9 26. are not expounded according to the full meaning of them , when they are understood of any other joyning , if joyning in covenant be left out . and therefore the scriptures of the new testament do beare good witnesse unto church-covenant , though , as we said before , the scriptures of the old testament might have been sufficient if the new testament had spoken nothing of it . but baptisme makes men members of the visible church , and therefore the covenant is needl●sse . this is answered in the answer to the fourth of the 32. questions , where it is shewed at large that baptisme ●s a seale of the covenan● betweene god and the church , but neither makes the church , nor members of the church , nor alwayes so much as proves men to be members . this church-covenant is a late devise , and was not known in ancient time , and therefore is to be rejected . fi●st , true antiquitie is that of the scriptures . now sith church covenant is warranted by the scripture , as hath been shewed before in this discourse , it cannot be charged to want true antiquitie . when the papists are wont to charge the doctrine of protestants with novelty , and such as was never heard of before luther , the orthodoxe are wont to answer , that if the doctrine do not agree with the scripture , then let it be condemned for noveltie ; and if it do , it is warranted by the best antiquitie , even the testimonie of god himself who is the antient of dayes : our faith , saith doctor white , is in all points the same that is contained in the scripture , and so consequently of the same antiquitie : and therefore all they that say it came up but of late , must first prove it contrary to the word of god , or else hold their peace . white , way , 44. 1. and the same we say in this particular of the church-covenant . secondly , and yet they that search the stories and writers of the times and ages next after the apostles , may find some testimonie of church-covenant in those dayes : for instance , iustine martyr in his apol. 2. makes mention of three things which were required of all that were admitted into the church as members , {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , that is regeneration , and soundnesse in the faith , and a promise to walke in obedience to the gospel . and generally this was the practise of all those times , that never any man was admitted to baptisme , nor his children neither , but they put him to answer three questions , abrenuntios ? whereto he answered , abrenuntio . credis ? whereto his answer was , credo : and spondes ? to which he answered , spondeo . so that here was an open declaration of his repentance from dead works , and of the soundnesse of his faith , in the two first particulars , and an open binding himself by covenant or promise to walke according to the gospel , in the third . but much needs not to be said in this point , unto them that do acknowledge scripture antiquitie to be sufficient , though after times should be found to swerve from the rules and patterns that are therein contained . if church-covenant be so necessarie , then all the reformed churches are to be condemned as no churches ; for they have no such covenant . they that have knowne those churches , not onely by their writings , and confessions of their faith , in synods and otherwise ; but also by living amongst them , and being eye-witnesses of their order , do report otherwise of them , viz. that they are combined together by solemne covenant with god and one another . zepperus , speaking of the manner , used in the reformed churches , in admitting the children of church-members to the lords table , when they came to age , and have been sufficiently catechised , and instructed in the doctrine of religion , tells us , that such children are admitted to the lords table , by publick profession of faith , and en●ring into covenant . cons●etum est , saith he , ut qui per aetate●i●que doctrinâ catecheticâ profectum ad sacram coenam primum a 〈◊〉 , fidei confessionem coram totâ ecclesiâ publice edant p●r parentes aut qui parentum l●co sunt , jussû ministri , in ecclesiae 〈◊〉 producti : quò●que in illa confessione , per dei gratiam 〈◊〉 , ac , juxta illam , vitam instituere , insuper etiam disciplinae ecclesiasticae ultrò ac sponte suâ subjicere sese velint , spondeant atque stipulentur , polit. eccles. lib. 1. cap. 14. p. 158. that is , the manner is , that they who by reason of age and proficiencie in the doctrine of catechisme are first admitted to the lords supper , should publickly before the whole church make confession of their faith , being brought forth into the sight of the church by their parents , or them that are instead of parents , at the appointment of the minister ; and likewise should promise and covenant by the grace of god to continue in that faith which they have confessed , and to lead their lives according to it ; yea , and moreover to subject themselves freely and willingly to the discipline of the church . these words we see are full and plaine , that children are not in those churches received to the lords supper , without personall confession of faith , and entring into covenant before ; and if they tooke this course with children come to age , there is as much reason , or more , that the same course should be holden with men of yeers , when they are admitted members . and so the same zepperus , speaking of the consociation of churches amongst themselves by mutuall confsederation , hath these words , which as they may be applyed to the combining of many churches , so may they be combining of many members of the same church , {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} illa {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , quam in symbolo profite nunc apostolico , nihil aliud hic requirit , & vult , quam obligationem omnium ecclesiae membrorum & confoederationem , &c. that is , that communion of saints which we professe in the creed , doth require and meane nothing else but an obligation of all the members of the church , and a binding of them together by covenant . polit. eccles. li. 3 c. 8. p. 721. to these testimonies of z●pperus , those words may be added of mr. parker our own countreyman , a man of singular note for learning and holinesse , who also himselfe lived sometimes beyond sea in the reformed churches , and there ended his dayes , so that we may safely give the more credit to his testimonie , he having so good meanes fully to know the state and order of those churches . now he speaketh of a solennis forma absque quâ in ecclesiae alicujus communionem nullus ritè recipitur : of a solemne forme , without which no man is rightly received into the communion of the church , hath these words . hic mos ille est reformatarum ecclesiarum non solum in lapsis restituendis , sed in extra●eis , imò quibuscunque recipiendis qui ad habitandum alicubi con●ident , etsi fortè in ecclesiâ illius loci quo ante commorabantur , juxta hanc formam admissi prius fuerant . examinat presbyterium , plebs consentit , quisque testes vitae suae secum adfert , vel testimonia saltem : publicatur nomen cujusque competentis pro concione , admonetur quisque siquid haebeat quod excipiat , ut denunciet presbyteris . si nihil contr● adferatur , admittitur quidem , sed non nisi solerni pactione cum deo & cum e●clesiâ . spondet verò ecclesiae , se ambulaturum prout sanctam illam communionem decet ; disciplinae illius ecclesiae subjacere velle , se fratribus illius communionis invigilaturum juxta christi prae ceptum , matth 18. 17. ut pra-veniantur sanenturque seandala , & illi ad studium bonorum operum provehantur . that is , this is the manner of the reformed churches , not onely in restoring such as have fallen , but in admitting of strangers , yea of all whoever they be , who do sit down in any place for habitation , though perhaps they have been formerly admitted after the same manner in the church where they have forme●ly dwelt ; the presbytery doth examine , the people do consent , every man brings with him witnesses of his life , or at least-wise testimonies : the name of each one that desires to be a member , is published in the assembly , every one is admonished if he have any exception against the party , to bring it to the presbytery . if nothing be brought against him , then indeed he is admitted ; but yet no otherwise then by a solemne covenant with god and the church ; and to the church he promiseth that he will walk as becometh that holy fellowship , that he will be subject to the discipline of that church , that he will watch over the brethren of that communion , according to the command of christ , mat. 18. 17. that offences may be prevented and healed , &c. polit. eccles. lib. 3. cap. 16. § 4. pag. 171 , 172. much more he hath to the same purpose in that place , alledging sundry canons and decrees of synods of reformed churches , wherein they have determined that none should be received into their churches , but by this way of solemne covenant . and others that have lived amongst them may have been eye-witnesses that this is their usuall practise . but what shall be said of the congregations in england , if churches must be combined by covenant ? doth not this doctrine blot out all those congregations out of the catalogue of churches ? for what ever covenant may be found in the reformed churches in other parts , yet it is plaine that she english have none . though we deny not but the covenant in many of those congregations is more imp●●cite and not so plaine as were to be desired ; ( and what is amis●e in them , in their materialls , or in want of explicite combining of pure matter , or in any of their wayes wee will not take upon us to defend ) yet we hope we may say of them with master park●r , polit. eccl●s . lib 3. cap. 16 § 1. pag. 167. non ab●st ea realis & substantialis ( quanquam mag is quàm par erat implicita ) coitio in foedus , ●aque voluntaria professio fidei substantialis : quâ ( deo gratia ) essentiam ecclesiae idque visibilis hacusque sar●am tectam in angli● conservavis ; that is , there wants not that reall and substantiall comming together , ( or agreeing in covenant , though more implicate then were meete ) and that substantiall profession of faith , which ( thanks be to god ) hath preserved the essence of visible churches in england unto this day . the reasons why wee are loath to say , that the congregations in england are utterly without a covenant , are these : first , because there we●e many christian churches in england in the apostles time , or within a while after , as m●ster fox sheweth at large , act. & mon. lib. 2. beginning pag 137 where he reporteth out of gildas , that england received the gospel in the time of tiberius the emperour , under whom christ suffered , and that ioseph of arima●hea was sent of philip the aposti● from france to england about the yeare of christ 63. and remained in england all his time , and so he with his fellowes layd the first foundation of christian faith among the britaine people , and other preachers and teachers comming afterward , confirmed the same and increased it . also the said master fox reporteth out of tertullian , that the gospel was dispearsed abroad by the sound of the apostles into many nations , and amongst the rest into britaine , yea into the wildest places of britaine , which the romans could never attaine unto : and alledgeth also out of nic●phorus , that simon zelotes did spread the gospel to the west ocean , and brought the same into the iles of britaine : and sund●y other proofes he there hath for the same point . now if the gospel and christian religion were brought into england in the apostles times , and by their means , it is like that the english churches were then constituted by way of covenant , because that was the manner of constituting churches in the apostles time , as also in the times afore christ , as hath been shewed from the scripture before in this discourse . and if christian congregations in england were in those times combined by covenant , then eternitie of gods covenant is such , that it is not the interposition of many corruptions that may arise in after times that can disanull the same , except when men wil●ully breake covenant and reject the offers of the gospel through obstinacy , which we perswade our selves they are not come unto : and consequently the covenant remaines which hath preserved the essence of churches to this day ; though the mixture of manifold corruptions , have made the covenant more implicite then were mee●e . secondly , because there want no good records ( as may be seene in seldens history of tithes ) to prove that in former times in england it was free for men to pay their tithes and oblations where themselves pleased : now this paying of tithes was accounted as a dutie of people to their minister , or sheepe to their pastour : and therefore seeing this was by their owne voluntary agreement and consent , their joyning to the church as members thereof , & to the ministery thereof as sheepe of such a mans flock , was also by their owne voluntary agreement and consent : and this doth imply a covenant . it was not the precincts of parishes that did limit men in those dayes , but their owne choice . thirdly , those questions and answers ministred at baptisme , spoken of before , ( viz. do st thou renounce ? i doe renounce : doest thou beleeve ? i doe beleseve : doest thou promise ? i doe promise ) as they were used in other places , so were they also in england , and are unto this day , though not without the mixture of sundry corruptions . now this doth imply a covenant . and when the children came to age , they were not to be admitted to the lords supper , before they had made personall confession of their owne faith , and ratified the covenant which was made at their baptisme by their parents , which course indeed afterward did grow into a sacrament of confirmation , but that was an abuse of a good order . if here it be said , that the members of the parishionall assemblies are not brought in by their owne voluntary profession , but by the authority and proclamation of the prince , and therefore they have no such covenant . the answer is , that the christian prince doth but his dutie when he doth not tollerate within his dominions any open idolatry , or the open worship of false gods by baptized persons , but suppresseth the same : and likewise when he gives free libertie to the exercise of all the ordinances of true religion , according to the minde of christ , with countenance also and encouragement unto all those whose hearts are willingly bent thereunto , ezra . 1. 13 & 7 13. and therefore this practise of his cannot overthrow the ●reenesse of mens joyning in church-communion , because one dut●e cannot oppose nor contradict another . and suppose that this course of the magistrate shou●d seeme to be a forcing of some to come in for members who were unfit , ( in which case it were not justifiable ) yet this doth not hinder the voluntary subjection of others , who with all their hearts desired it . when the israelites departed out of aegypt , there went a mixed multitude with them ▪ many going with them that were not israelites indeed , exod. 12. and in the dayes of morde●ay and hesth●r , many of the people of the lands became iewes , when the iewes were in favour and respect , est. 8. 17. and so joyned to them not of their owne voluntary minde , nor of any sincere heart towards god , but meerely for the favour or feare of men ; yet this forced or feined joyning of some could not hinder those that were israelites indeed from being israelites , nor make the iewes to be no iewes , no church-members . and the same may be said in this case , suppose the magistrates proclamation should be a cause , or an occasion rather , of bringing some into the church , who came not of their owne voluntary minde , but for feare , or for obteining favour , yet this cannot hinder , but others might voluntarily and freely covenant to be subject to the gospel of christ : such subjection and the promise of it being the thing which themselves did heartily desire , though the magistrate should have said nothing in it . if any shall hereupon inferre , that if the parishionall assemblies be churches , then the members of them may be admitted to church priviledges in new england , before they joyne to our churches : such one may finde his answer in the answer to the tenth of the thirty-two questions ; whereunto we doe referre the reader for this point . onely adding this , that this were contrary to the judgement and practise of the reformed churches , who doe not admit a man for member without personall profession of his faith , and joyning in covenant , though he had formerly been a member of a church in another place , as was shewed before out of master parker . lastly , if any say , that if these reasons prove the english congregations to have such a covenant as proves them to be churches , then why may not rome , and the assemblies of papists goe for true churches also ? for some man may thinke that the same things may be said for them that here in answer to this eleventh objection are said for the parishes in england : such one must remember two things : first , that we doe not say simply , a covenant makes a company a true church , but ( as was said before ) a covenant to walke in such wayes of worship to god and edification of one another , as the gospel of christ requireth . for who doubts , but there may be an agreement among theeves , pro. 1. a confederation among gods enemies , psal. 83. a conspiracy among the arabians , the ammonites and ashdodites , to hinder the building of hierusalem , neh. 4. 7 , 8. and yet none of these are made true churches by such kind of confederacies or agreements . and so wee may say of the assemblies of papists , especially since the counsell of trent . if there be any agreement or confederacy among them , it is not to walke in the wayes of the gospell , but in wayes contrary to the fundamentall truths of the gospel , as idolat●y in worship , heresie in doctrine , and other antichristian pollutions and corruptions : and therefore if they combined in these things , such combinations will never prove them true churches . the church is the pillar and ground of truth , 1 tim. 3. 15. but the religion of papists is so farre from truth , that whosoever liveth and beleeveth according to it , without repentance , cannot be saved . witnesse their doctrine in the point of vilifying the scriptures , and in point of free-will , and of justification by works , of the popes supremacy , of the sacrifice of the masse , of worshipping of images , &c. in regard of which , and such like , the holy ghost saith , that their religion is a sea , become as the bloud of a dead man , and every soule in that sea dyeth , rev. 16. 3. and therefore agreement in such a religion will never prove them to be true churches ; nor any assemblies of arrians , antitrinitaries , anabaptists , or famelists , supposing them also to be combined by covenant among themselves . but now for the assemblies in england , the case is farre otherwise ; for the doctrine of the articles of religion which they professe , and which they promise to hold and observe ( though some things are amisse in some of those articles , and though many persons live contrary in their lives ) yet the doctrine is such that whosoever beleeveth , and liveth according to it , shall undoubtedly be saved , and many thousands have been saved therein ▪ and therefore assemblies united by covenant to observe this doctrine may be true churches , when the assemblies of papists and others may be false , although they also were combined by covenant : the reason of the difference rising from the difference that is in the doctrine and religion which they severally professe , and by covenant binde themselves to observe , the one being fundamentally corrupt , and consequently pernicious : the other in the fundamentall points orthodoxall and sound . secondly , it must be remembred also ( which was intimated before ) that if fundamentall corruptions be professed in with impenitency and obstinacy , then god may disanull the covenant on his part , and give a bill of divorce to such a people , iere. 3. 8. now experience and the scripture also doth witnesse of the jesuited and tr●nt-papists , that they repented not of the workes of their hands , of worshipping devills , and idolls of gold , &c. neither repented they of their murthers , nor of their sorceries , nor of their fornications , nor of their thefts , rev. 9. 20 , 21. but now for the parish assemblies in england , we hope that we may safely say , they doe not sinne of obstinacy , but of ignorance , having not been convinced ( and many of them never having had means to be convinced ) of the corruptions that are amongst them , in respect of their constitution , and worship , and ministery , and so the covenant remaining among them , may prove them to be churches , when it cannot stand the papists in like stead , they being impenitent and obstinate : which we doe not speake to justifie the parishes altogether , as if there were not dangerous corruptions found in them , nay rather ( the lord be mercifull to the sinnes of his people ) wee may lament it with teares , that in respect of their members and ministery , in respect of their worship and walkings , in many of those assemblies there are found such apparent corruptions , as are justly grievous to a godly soule , that is enlightened to discerne them , and greatly displeasing to the lord , and indeed had need to be repented of betime , least otherwise the lord remove the candlesticke and unchurch them , rev. 2. 5. in a word , the corruptions remaining are just causes of repentance and humiliation : but yet in as much as the articles of religion , which they professe , containe such wholesome doctrine , that whosoever beleeveth and walketh according thereunto , in sinceritie , shall undoubtedly be saved , and in as much as the corruptions are not persisted in with obstinacy , therefore wee deny not but they have the truth of churches remaining . but this opinion of church-covenant , is holden by none but the brownists , or those of the separation , and therefore it is not to be received . this ground cannot be made good , that none but they of the separation are for church covenant , for all the reformed churches generally , as was shewed before in answer to objection the tenth , are for it in their judgement & practise ; and shall all they be condemned for * brownists , or maintaining unlawfull separation from the church ? also master parker and doctor ames , men of our owne nation , famous for holinesse and learning , and moderation , both of them plead for church-covenant , and yet neither of them were brownists , but bare witnesse against that riged separation . ●or doctor ames , his judgement of church-covenant may be seene in his medulla , theol lib. 1. cap. 32. § 14 , 15 , 17. fideles non constitunt ecclesiam particularem , quamvis simul forsan plures in eodem loco conveniant aut vivant , nisi speciali vinculo intersese conju●guntur , &c. that is , beleevers doe not make a particular church , though perhaps there be many of them that meete together , and live in the same place , unlesse they be joyned together by some speciall bond amongst themselves : for so one church would many times be dissolved into many , and many churches confounded into one . now this bond is a covenant , either expressed or implicite , whereby beleevers do binde themselves particularly to performe all such duties , both towards god and mutually to one another , as pertaine to the nature of a church , and their edification . and thereupon no man is rightly admitted into the church , but by confession of his faith , and stipulation , or promise of obedience . these words doe plainely and fully shew his judgement of church covenant , to be the very same that is held and practised in new-england at this day . and that he was not for that severitie and regiditie of separation , may be cleared from sundry of his workes , wherein he plainly and fully beares witnesse against the same , and namely , in his fresh suite against ceremonies , pag. 207. and in his second manuduction , wherein he purposely and at large deales in this argument of separation . sure it is master canne in his booke , wherein he goes about to prove the necessitie of separation from the non-conformists principles , doth professedly and expressely oppose himselfe against doctor ames in the point of separation , which shewes how farre the good doctor was from favouring that way , when they most zealously therein doe count him to be a speciall opposite of theirs , as indeed he was . and for master parker , his judgement of church-covenant was heard before in part ; where he so much approveth the practise of the reformed churches in this point . and much more may be seene of his judgement herein , in the sixteenth chap. of the third booke of his p●lit . ecclesiastica . and yet in the same place , and likewise lib 1. c●p . 13 ▪ 14. of the same treatise he plentifully and plainly shewes his dislike of the wayes of separation , as is also acknowledged in an admonition to the reader , prefixed before that booke , by ● . r. suo , suorumque nomine . so that this assertion appeares to be untrue , wherein it is said , that none but brownists and separatists doe approve of church-covenant . as for the in●erence from this ground , that therefore church-covenant should not be received , because it is pleaded for and pract●●ed by the separatists . we answer , that this will not follow , unlesse it could be proved , that the separatists hold no truth ; or if they hold a truth wee must not hold it , that so it may appeare wee differ from them ; either of which , it were unreasonable to affirme . if the papists hold sundry articles of faith , as that there is a unitie of the divine essence , and trinitie of persons , that jesus christ is god and man , and that true messiah that was promised , and the onely saviour of the world , and many such like , must wee deny these things because they are holden by the papists ? this were as unreasonable as to condemne the doctrine of the resurrection , because it was maintained by the pharisees , act. 23. 8. and so we say of church-covenant , holden and practised by them of the separation ; as also many other truths are maintained by them : no reason that truth should be refused , because the separatists maintaine it . when doctor bancroft in a sermon at pauls-crosse , had avouched that the superioritie of bishops above other ministers , is by gods owne ordinance , and to make the contrary opinion odious , affirmed that aerius per●i●ting in it , was condemned for an heretique by the generall consent of the whole church , and that martin and his companions , doe maintaine the same opinion of aerius ; what saith learned doctor reinolds hereunto , in a letter to sir francis knolls , who required him to shew his judgement herein : touching martin , saith he , if any man behave himselfe otherwise then in discretion and charitie he ought , let the blame be laid where the fault is , and defend him not ; but if by the way he utter a truth , mingled with whatsoever else , it is not reason that that which is of god should be condemned for that which is of man : no more then the doctrine of the resurrection should be reproved , because it was maintained and held by the pharisees : wherefore removing the odious name of martin from that which is sinceritie and love , is to be dealt with , &c. and the very same doe wee say to them that would make church-covenant to be odious , because it is held by those of the seperation , who are commonly called brownists : if men behave themselves otherwise then they ought , we defend them not therein , but if they hold any truth mingled with whatsoever else , wee would not have that which is of god to be condemned , for that which is of man : truth should not be refused , because of other corruptions that may be found in them that hold it . if you with them hold church-covenant , you iustifie them in all their wayes of seperation and erronious opinions . not so , for many of them hold that there are no visible christians that stand members of the parishes in england , and that it is not lawfull to hold any private religious communion with such perso●s ; and that the parishionall assemblies are none of them true churches , and that it is not lawfull to hear any of those ministers to preach the word , none of which are justified at all by holding church-covenant , though they do hold the same ; there is no such necessarie and inseparable connexion betweene these opinions , and that of church-covenant , that he that holds this , must needs hold the other also . but the time hath been , when your selves did not hold church-covenant , as now you do ; when you were in england you were not of this mind , and therefore no marvell if your change since your coming to new england be suspected , and offensive . if you change your judgement and practise in this manner , god knows whether you may come at last , and therefore men may well be afraid of holding with you in this point , which your selves did not hold when you lived in your native countrey . some of us when we were in england , through the mercie of god , did see the necessitie of church-covenant ; and did also preach it to the people amongst whom we ministred , though neither so soone nor so fully as were meete , for which we have cause to be humbled , and to judge our selves before the lord . but suppose we had never knowne nor practised the same before our coming into this countrey , yet if it be a truth of god , there is no reason why we should shut our eyes against the light , when god holds it forth unto us , nor that others should be offended at us for receiving the same . for by the same reason men might still continue in their sinnes , and not make any progresse in knowledge and holinesse , that so they may not seeme unconstant , which were contrary to the scripture , wherein we are commanded nor to fashion our selves according to the former lusts of our ignorance . 1. pet. 1. 14. but to be changed , rom. 12. 2. and renued , ephes. 4. 23. and put off the old man , and put on the new , ephes. 4. yea to grow in grace and holinesse , 2. pet. 3. 18. and be stronger and stronger , iob 17. 9. that our good workes may be mo●e at the last , then at the first , revel. 2. 19. sure it is , the apostle tells the corin●hians and ephesians , that the time had been when they were not the same men that now they are when he wrote unto them ; and yet he doth not blame them for leaving their former opinions or practise , but commends them for it , 1. cor. 6. 11. ephes. 2. 3. &c. and it is said of apollos an eloquent man , and mighty in the scripture , that when he came to ephesus the way of god was expounded unto him more perfectly by aquila and priscilla , whereas before he was instructed in the way of the lord , knowing onely the baptisme of iohn : yet this was no dispraise at all to him , that now upon better information he would change his judgement to the better , nor unto them that were the means thereof : act. 18. 25 , 26. nullus pudor est ad maliura transire . the time hath been , ( and we may be humbled for it ) when we lived without god in the world , and some of us in many sinfull courses : and shall any be offended , because we are not still the same ? and when god called us from the wayes of sin and death , to the fellowship of his grace in christ ; yet some of us lived a long time in conformity to the ceremonies imposed in our native countrey , and saw not the evill of them . but when god did open our eyes , and let us see the unlawfulnesse thereof , we cannot see but it would have been a with-holding the truth in unrighteousnesse , and a great unthankfulnesse to god for light revealed to us , if we should still have continued in that course through an inordinate desire of seeming constant : and therefore it is not any just cause of offence that we have changed our judgement and practise in those things , when we once perceived the word of god to disallow them . indeed it hath been sometime objected against mr. cartwright , and others , that desired the reformation of the churches in england , in regard of discipline and church-order , that they which stood so much for reformation in discipline , did in after times adde and alter some things , beyond what they saw at first , and what themselves had formerly desired ; and that therefore being so mutable , and inconstant in their apprehensions , they were not to be regarded , nor hearkened unto : to which objection mr. parker makes full answer in eccles. lib. 2. ca. 36. p. 307. where he sheweth from the scripture , and the testimonie of bishop iewel , doctor reinolds , and others , that in the reformation of religion god brings not his servants into perfection in knowledge and zeale at the first , but by degrees , so as they grow and make progresse in these things in such wise ; that their good works are more at the last then at the first , as was said of the church of thyatira , even as the man that had been blind , when christ restored him to his sight , could at the first but see men like trees walking , and afterward saw every man cleerly ; and therefore it is no good arguing to say these men have altered and corrected such things from what their apprehensions were at first , and therefore they are not to be regarded . now if this be no good arguing against mr. cartwright , and those that in england have been studious of reformation ( as indeed it is not ) then it is no good argument against us in this matter of church-covenant , to say we now hold and practise otherwise then we have done in former time . if any shall here reply , that change from conformity to the ceremonies to worship god more purely is warranted by the word , and therefore not blame-worthy , and that the same may be said of the case of apollos , of the corinthians , and ephesians forementioned , and of cartwright , and the rest in his times . we answer , that this is true , and thereby it appears , that it is not simply the changing a mans opinion or practise that can be counted blame-worthy , or offensive , but changing without warrant of the word ; and therefore in point of church-covenant , the issue must not be whether we or others have formerly known and practised it , but whether it have ground from gods word ; for if it have ( as we hope have been proved before in this discourse ) then the observing of it , can be no cause of just offence unto others , nor imputation of inconstancy to our selves , though in time past we had not had so much light as to discerne the necessitie and use thereof . the good lord pardon every one that prepareth his heart to seek god , though he be not cleansed according to the purification of the sanctuary : and grant unto all his churches and servants , that the●● love may abound yet more and more in knowledge , and in all judgement , that they may discerne the things that differ ; and approve the things that are excellent , and by his spirit of truth be led forward into all truth , till antichrist be utterly consumed with the breath of his mouth , and the brightnesse of his coming , and the holy city new jerusalem come down from god out of heaven , as a bride adorned for her husband the lambe , the lord jesus , to whom be all glory of affiance and service for ever . amen . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a50245e-190 object . 1. answer . object . 2 answer . object . 3 answer . object . 4. answer . argu. 2. object . 1. answer . obj. 2. answ. obj. ● . answer . argu. 3. argu. 4. argu. 5. object . answer . argu. 1. argu. 2. object . answer . argu. 3. object . 1. answer . obj. 2. answ. obj. 3. object . 4. answ. object . 5. answ. argu. 4. argu. 5. object . answer . argu. 6. obj●ct . 1. answer . object . 2. answ. obj. 3. answ. obj. 4. answ. obj. 5. answ. obj. 6. answ. reply . answ. obj. 7. answ. obj. 8. answ. obj. 9. answ. obj. 10. answ. obj. 11 answ. obj. 12. answ. * by brownists and separatists you are to understād those of the rige● separation . reply . answ. obje . 13. answ. reply . answ. a declaration of the faith and order owned and practiced in the congregational churches in england agreed upon and consented unto by their elders and messengers in their meeting at the savoy, october 12, 1658. this text is an enriched version of the tcp digital transcription a52591 of text r16855 in the english short title catalog (wing n1487). textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. the text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with morphadorner. the annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. this text has not been fully proofread approx. 140 kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from 47 1-bit group-iv tiff page images. earlyprint project evanston,il, notre dame, in, st. louis, mo 2017 a52591 wing n1487 estc r16855 13640486 ocm 13640486 100884 this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons 0 1.0 universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase 1, no. a52591) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set 100884) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, 1641-1700 ; 797:26) a declaration of the faith and order owned and practiced in the congregational churches in england agreed upon and consented unto by their elders and messengers in their meeting at the savoy, october 12, 1658. owen, john, 1616-1683. nye, philip, 1596?-1672. [30], 64 p. printed by john field, and are to be sold by john allen ..., london : 1659. prepared by philip nye and john owen. cf. dnb. advertisements on p. [30] and p. 53. reproduction of original in huntington library. eng congregational churches -creeds. congregational churches -doctrines. congregational churches -england -history. a52591 r16855 (wing n1487). civilwar no a declaration of the faith and order owned and practiced in the congregational churches in england; agreed upon and consented unto by their [no entry] 1659 25439 32 5 0 0 1 0 18 c the rate of 18 defects per 10,000 words puts this text in the c category of texts with between 10 and 35 defects per 10,000 words. 2005-03 tcp assigned for keying and markup 2005-06 spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images 2005-07 emma (leeson) huber sampled and proofread 2005-07 emma (leeson) huber text and markup reviewed and edited 2005-10 pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a declaration of the faith and order owned and practised in the congregational churches in england ; agreed upon and consented unto by their elders and messengers in their meeting at the savoy , october 12. 1658. london : printed by john field , and are to be sold by john allen at the sun rising in pauls church-yard , 1659. a preface . confession of the faith that is in us , when justly called for , is so indispensable a due all owe to the glory of the soveraign god , that it is ranked among the duties of the first commandment , such as prayer is ; and therefore by paul yoaked with faith it self , as necessary to salvation : with the heart man believeth unto righteousness , and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation . our lord christ himself , when he was accused of his doctrine , considered simply as a matter of fact by preaching , refused to answer ; because , as such , it lay upon evidence , and matter of testimony of others ; unto whom therefore he refers himself : but when both the high priest and pilate expostulate his faith , and what he held himself to be ; he without any demur at all , cheerfully makes declaration , that he was the son of god ; so to the high priest : and that he was a king , and born to be a king ; thus to pilate ; though upon the uttering of it his life lay at the stake : which holy profession of his is celebrated for our example , 1 tim. 6.13 . confessions , when made by a company of professors of christianity joyntly meeting to that end , the most genuine and natural use of such confessions is , that under the same form of words , they express the substance of the same common salvation , or unity of their faith ; whereby speaking the same things , they shew themselves perfectly joyned in the same minde , and in the same judgement . and accordingly such a transaction is to be looked upon but as a meet or fit medium or means whereby to express that their common faith and salvation , and no way to be made use of as an imposition upon any ▪ whatever is of force or constraint in matters of this nature , causeth them to degenerate from the name and nature of confessions , and turns them from being confessions of faith , into exactions and impositions of faith . and such common confessions of the orthodox faith , made in simplicity of heart by any such body of christians , with concord among themselves , ought to be entertained by all others that love the truth as it is in jesus , with an answerable rejoycing : for if the unanimous opinions and assertions but in some few points of religion , and that when by two churches , namely , that of jerusalem , and the messengers of antioch met , assisted by some of the apostles , were by the believers of those times received with so much joy , ( as it is said , they rejoyced for the consolation ) much more this is to be done , when the whole substance of faith , and form of wholsome words shall be declared by the messengers of a multitude of churches , though wanting those advantages of counsel and authority of the apostles , which that assembly had . which acceptation is then more specially due , when these shall ( to choose ) utter and declare their faith , in the same substance for matter , yea , words , for the most part , that other churches and assemblies , reputed the most orthodox , have done before them : for upon such a correspondency , all may see that actually accomplished ; which the apostle did but exhort unto , and pray for , in those two more eminent churches of the corinthians and the romans ; ( and so in them for all the christians of his time ) that both jew and gentile , that is , men of different perswasions , ( as they were ) might glorifie god with one minde and with one mouth . and truly , the very turning of the gentiles to the owning of the same faith , in the substance of it , with the christian jew ( though differing in greater points then we do from our brethren ) is presently after dignified by the apostle with this stile , that it is the confession of jesus christ himself ; not as the object onely , but as the author and maker thereof : i will confess to thee ( saith christ to god ) among the gentiles . so that in all such accords , christ is the great and first confessor ; and we , and all our faith uttered by us , are but the epistles , ( as paul ) and confessions ( as isaiah there ) of their lord and ours ; he , but expressing what is written in his heart , through their hearts and mouthes , to the glory of god the father : and shall not we all rejoyce herein , when as christ himself is said to do it upon this occasion : as it there also follows , i will sing unto thy name . further , as the soundness and wholsomness of the matter gives the vigor and life to such confessions , so the inward freeness , willingness and readiness of the spirits of the confessors do contribute the beauty and loveliness thereunto : as it is in prayer to god , so in confessions made to men . if two or three met , do agree , it renders both , to either the more acceptable . the spirit of christ is in himself too free , great and generous a spirit , to suffer himself to be used by any humane arm , to whip men into belief ; he drives not , but gently leads into all truth , and perswades men to dwell in the tents of like precious faith ; which would lose of its preciousness and value , if that sparkle of freeness shone not in it : the character of his people , is to be a willing people in the day of his power ▪ ( not mans ) in the beauties of holiness , which are the assemblings of the saints : one glory of which assemblings in that first church , is said to have been , they met with one accord , which is there in that psalm prophesied of , in the instance of that first church , for all other that should succeed . and as this great spirit is in himself free , when , and how far , and in whom to work , so where and when he doth work ▪ he carrieth it with the same freedom , and is said to be a free spirit , as he both is , and works in us : and where this spirit of the lord is , there is liberty . now , as to this confession of ours , besides , that a conspicuous conjunction of the particulars mentioned , hath appeared therein : there are also four remarkable attendants thereon , which added , might perhaps in the eyes of sober and indifferent spirits , give the whole of this transaction a room and rank amongst other many good and memorable things of this age ; at least all set together , do cast as clear a gleam and manifestation of gods power and presence , as hath appeared in any such kinde of confessions , made by so numerous a company these later years . the first , is the temper , ( or distemper rather ) of the times , during which , these churches have been gathering , and which they have run through . all do ( out of a general sense ) complain that the times have been perillous , or difficult times ; ( as the apostle foretold ) and that in respect to danger from seducing spirits , more perillous then the hottest seasons of persecution . we have sailed through an aestuation , fluxes and refluxes of great varieties of spirits , doctrines , opinions and occurrences ; and especially in the matter of opinions , which have been accompanied in their several seasons , with powerful perswasions and temptations , to seduce those of our way . it is known men have taken the freedom ( notwithstanding what authority hath interposed to the contrary ) to vent and vend their own vain and accursed imaginations , contrary to the great and fixed truths of the gospel , insomuch , as take the whole round and circle of delusions , the devil hath in this small time , ran , it will be found , that every truth , of greater or lesser weight , hath by one or other hand , at one time or another , been questioned and called to the bar amongst us , yea , and impleaded , under the pretext ( which hath some degree of justice in it ) that all should not be bound up to the traditions of former times , nor take religion upon trust . whence it hath come to pass , that many of the soundest professors were put upon a new search and disquisition of such truths , as they had taken for granted , and yet had lived upon the comfort of : to the end they might be able to convince others , and establish their own hearts against that darkness and unbelief , that is ready to close with error , or at least to doubt of the truth , when error is speciously presented . and hereupon we do professedly account it one of the greatest advantages gained out of the temptations of these times ; yea the honor of the saints and ministers of these nations , that after they had sweetly been exercised in , and had improved practical and experimental truths , this should be their further lot , to examine and discuss , and indeed , anew to learn over every doctrinal truth , both out of the scriptures , and also with a fresh taste thereof in their own hearts ; which is no other then what the apostle exhorts to , try all things , hold fast that which is good . conversion unto god at first , what is it else then a savory and affectionate application , and the bringing home to the heart with spiritual light and life , all truths that are necessary to salvation , together with other lesser truths ? all which we had afore conversion taken in but notionally from common education and tradition . now that after this first gust those who have bin thus converted should be put upon a new probation and search out of the scriptures , not onely of all principles explicitely ingredients to conversion ; ( unto which the apostle referreth the galatians when they had diverted from them ) but of all other superstructures as well as fundamentals ; and together therewith , anew to experiment the power and sweetness of all these in their own souls : what is this but tryed faith indeed ? and equivalent to a new conversion unto the truth ? an anchor that is proved to be sure and stedfast , that will certainly hold in all contrary storms : this was the eminent seal and commendation which those holy apostles that lived and wrote last ; peter , john and jude ; in their epistles did set and give to the christians of the latter part of those primitive times . and besides , it is clear and evident by all the other epistles , from first to last , that it cost the apostles as much , and far more care and pains to preserve them they had converted , in the truth , then they had taken to turn them thereunto at first : and it is in it self as great a work and instance of the power of god , that keeps , yea , guards us through faith unto salvation . secondly , let this be added , ( or superadded rather ) to give full weight and measure , even to running over ) that we have all along this season , held forth ( though quarreled with for it by our brethren ) this great principle of these times , that amongst all christian states and churches , there ought to be vouchsafed a forbearance and mutual indulgence unto saints of all perswasions , that keep unto , and hold fast the necessary foundations of faith and holiness , in all other matters extrafundamental , whether of faith or order . this to have been our constant principle , we are not ashamed to confess to the whole christian world . wherein yet we desire we may be understood , not as if in the abstract we stood indifferent to falshood or truth , or were careless whether faith or error , in any truths but fundamental , did obtain or not , so we had our liberty in our petty and smaller differences : or as if to make sure of that , we had cut out this wide cloak for it : no , we profess that the whole , and every particle of that faith delivered to the saints , ( the substance of which we have according to our light here professed ) is , as to the propagation and furtherance of it by all gospel-means , as precious to us as our lives ; or what can be supposed dear to us ; and in our sphere we have endeavored to promote them accordingly : but yet withall , we have and do contend , ( and if we had all the power which any , or all of our brethren of differing opinions have desired to have over us , or others , we should freely grant it unto them all ) we have and do contend for this , that in the concrete , the persons of all such gracious saints , they and their errors , as they are in them , when they are but such errors as do and may stand with communion with christ , though they should not repent of them , as not being convinced of them to the end of their days ; that those , with their errors ( that are purely spiritual , and intrench and overthrow not civil societies , ) as concrete with their persons , should for christs sake be born withall by all christians in the world ; and they notwithstanding be permitted to enjoy all ordinances and spiritual priviledges according to their light , as freely as any other of their brethren that pretend to the greatest orthodoxity ; as having as equal , and as fair a right in and unto christ , and all the holy things of christ , that any other can challenge to themselves . and this doth afford a full and invincible testimony on our behalf , in that whiles we have so earnestly contended for this just liberty of saints in all the churches of christ , we our selves have had no need of it : that is as to the matter of the profession of faith which we have maintained together with others : and of this , this subsequent confession of faith gives sufficient evidence . so as we have the confidence in christ , to utter in the words of those two great apostles , that we have stood fast in the liberty wherewith christ hath made us free ( in the behalf of others , rather then our selves ) and having been free , have not made use of out liberty , for a cloak of error or maliciousness in our selves : and yet , loe , whereas from the beginning of the rearing of these churches , that of the apostle hath been ( by some ) prophecyed of us , and applyed to us , that whiles we promised ( unto others ) liberty , we our selves would become servants of corruption , and be brought in bondage to all sorts of fancies and imaginations ; yet the whole world may now see after the experience of many years ran through ( and it is manifest by this confession ) that the great and gracious god hath not onely kept us in that common unity of the faith and knowledge of the son of god , which the whole community of saints have and shall in their generations come unto , but also in the same truths , both small and great , that are built thereupon , that any other of the best and more pure reformed churches in their best times ( which were their first times ) have arrived unto : this confession withall holding forth a professed opposition unto the common errors and heresies of these times . these two considerations have been taken from the seasons we have gone through . thirdly , let the space of time it self , or days , wherein from first to last the whole of this confession was framed and consented to by the whole of us , be duly considered by sober and ingenuous spirits : the whole of days in which we had meetings about it , ( set aside the two lords days , and the first days meeting , in which we considered and debated what to pitch upon ) were but eleven days , part of which also was spent by some of us in prayer , others in consulting ; and in the end all agreeing . we mention this small circumstance but to this end , ( which still adds unto the former ) that it gives demonstration , not of our freeness and willingness onely , but of our readiness and preparedness unto so great a work ; which otherwise , and in other assemblies , hath ordinarily taken up long and great debates , as in such a variety of matters of such concernment , may well be supposed to fall out . and this is no other then what the apostle peter exhorts unto , be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason or account of the hope that is in you . the apostle paul saith of the spiritual truths of the gospel , that god hath prepared them for those that love him . the inward and innate constitution of the new creature being in it self such as is suted to all those truths , as congenial thereunto : but although there be this mutual adaptness between these two , yet such is the mixture of ignorance , darkness and unbelief , carnal reason , preoccupation of judgement , interest of parties , wantonness in opinion , proud adhering to our own perswasions , and perverse oppositions and aversness to agree with others , and a multitude of such like distempers common to believing man : all which are not onely mixed with , but at times , ( especially in such times as have passed over our heads ) are ready to overcloud our judgements , and do cause our eyes to be double , and sometimes prevail as well as lusts , and do byass our wills and affections : and such is their mixture , that although there may be existent an habitual preparedness in mens spirits , yet not always a present readiness to be found , specially not in such a various multitude of men , to make a solemn and deliberate profession of all truths , it being as great a work to finde the spirits of the just ( perhaps the best ) of saints , ready for every truth , as to be prepared to every good work . it is therefore to be looked at as a great and special work of the holy ghost , that so numerous a company of ministers , and other principal brethren , should so readily , speedily and joyntly give up themselves unto such a whole body of truths that are after godliness . this argues they had not their faith to seek ; but , as is said of ezra , that they were ready scribes , and ( as christ ) instructed unto the kingdom of heaven , being as the good housholders of so many families of christ , bringing forth of their store and treasury new and old. it shews these truths had been familiar to them , and they acquainted with them , as with their daily food and provision , ( as christs allusion there insinuates ) in a word , that so they had preached , and that so their people had believed , as the apostle speaks upon one like particular occasion . and the apostle paul considers ( in cases of this nature ) the suddenness or length of the time , either one way or the other ; whether it were in mens forsaking or learning of the truth . thus the suddenness in the galatians case in leaving the truth , he makes a wonder of it : i marvel that you are so soon ( that is , in so short a time ) removed from the true gospel unto another . again on the contrary , in the hebrews he aggravates their backwardness , that when for the time you ought to be teachers , you had need that one teach you the very first principles of the oracles of god . the parable contrary to both these having fallen out in this transaction , may have some ingredient and weight with ingenuous spirits in its kinde , according to the proportion is put upon either of these forementioned in their adverse kinde , and obtain the like special observation . this accord of ours hath fallen out without having held any correspondency together , or prepared consultation by which we might come to be advised of one anothers mindes . we alledge not this as a matter of commendation in us ; no , we acknowledge it to have been a great neglect : and accordingly one of the first proposals for union amongst us was , that there might be a constant correspondence held among the churches for counsel and mutual edification , so for time to come to prevent the like omission . we confess that from the first , every , or at least the generality of our churches , have been in a maner like so many ships ( though holding forth the same general colours ) lancht singly , and sailing apart and alone in the vast ocean of these tumultuating times , and they exposed to every wind of doctrine , under no other conduct then the word and spirit , and their particular elders and principal brethren , without associations among our selves , or so much as holding out common lights to others , whereby to know where we were . but yet whilest we thus confess to our own shame this neglect , let all acknowledge , that god hath ordered it for his high and greater glory , in that his singular care and power should have so watcht over each of these , as that all should be found to have steered their course by the same chart , and to have been bound for one and the same port , and that upon this general search now made , that the same holy and blessed truths of all sorts , which are currant and warrantable amongst all the other churches of christ in the world , should be found to be our lading . the whole , and every of these things when put together , do cause us ( whatever men of prejudiced and opposite spirits may finde out to slight them ) with a holy admiration , to say , that this is no other then the lords doing ; and which we with thanksgiving do take from his hand as a special token upon us for good , and doth show that god is faithful and upright towards those that are planted in his house : and that as the faith was but once for all , and intentionally first delivered unto the saints ; so the saints , when not abiding scattered , but gathered under their respective pastors according to gods heart into an house , and churches unto the living god , such together are , as paul forespake it , the most steady and firm pillar and seat of truth that god hath anywhere appointed to himself on earth , where his truth is best conserved , and publiquely held forth ; there being in such assemblies weekly a rich dwelling of the word amongst them , that is , a daily open house kept by the means of those good housholders , their teachers and other instructers respectively appropriated to them , whom christ in the vertue of his ascension , continues to give as gifts to his people , himself dwelling amongst them ; to the end that by this , as the most sure standing permanent means , the saints might be perfected , till we all ( even all the saints in present and future ages ) do come by this constant and daily ordinance of his unto the unity of the faith and knowledge of the son of god unto a perfect man , unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of christ ( which though growing on by parts and piecemeal , will yet appear compleat , when that great and general assembly shall be gathered , then when this world is ended , and these dispensations have had their fulness and period ) and so that from henceforth ( such a provision being made for us ) we be no more children tossed to and fro , and carried about with every wind of doctrine . and finally , this doth give a fresh and recent demonstration , that the great apostle and high-priest of our profession is indeed ascended into heaven , and continues there with power and care , faithful as a son over his own house , whose house are we , if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoycing of the hope firm unto the end : and shews that he will , as he hath promised , be with his own institutions to the end of the world . it is true , that many sad miscarriages , divisions , breaches fallings off from holy ordinances of god , have along this time of tentation , ( especially in the beginning of it ) been found in some of our churches ; and no wonder , if what hath been said be fully considered : many reasons might further be given hereof , that would be a sufficient apology , without the help of a retortion upon other churches ( that promised themselves peace ) how that more destroying ruptures have befallen them , and that in a wider sphere and compass , which though it should not justifie us , yet may serve to stop others mouthes . let rome glory of the peace in , and obedience of her children , against the reformed churches for their divisions that occurred ( especially in the first rearing of them ) whilest we all know the causes of their dull and stupid peace to have been carnal interests , worldly correspondencies , and coalitions strengthened by gratifications of all sorts of men by that religion , the principles of blinde devotion , traditional faith , ecclesiastical tyranny , by which she keeps her children in bondage to this day . we are also certain , that the very same prejudice that from hence they would cast upon the reformed ( if they were just ) do lye as fully against those pure churches raised up by the apostles themselves in those first times : for as we have heard of their patience , sufferings , consolations , and the transcending gifts poured out , and graces shining in them , so we have heard complaints of their divisions too , of the forsakings of their assemblies , as the custom or maner of some was ( which later were in that respect felones de se , and needed no other delivering up to satan as their punishment , then what they executed upon themselves . ) we read of the shipwrack also of faith and a good conscience , and overthrowings of the faith of some ; and still but of some , not all , nor the most : which is one piece of an apologie the apostle again and again inserts to future ages , and through mercy we have the same to make . and truly we take the confidence professedly to say , that these tentations common to the purest churches of saints separated from the mixture of the world , though they grieve us ( for who is offended , and we burn not ? ) yet they do not at all stumble us , as to the truth of our way , had they been many more : we say it again , these stumble us no more ( as to that point ) then it doth offend us against the power of religion it self , to have seen , and to see daily in particular persons called out and separated from the world by an effectual work of conversion , that they for a while do suffer under disquietments , vexations , turmoils , unsettlements of spirit , that they are tossed with tempests and horrid tentations , such as they had not in their former estate , whilst they walked according to the course of this world : for peter hath sufficiently instructed us whose business it is to raise such storms , even the devil's ; and also whose designe it is , that after they have suffered a while , thereby they shall be setled , perfected , stablished , that have so suffered , even the god of all grace . and look what course of dispensation god holds to saints personally , he doth the like to bodies of saints in churches , and the devil the same for his part too : and that consolatory maxim of the apostle , god shall tread down satan under your feet shortly , which paul uttereth concerning the church of rome , shews how both god and satan have this very hand therein ; for he speaks that very thing in reference unto their divisions , as the coherence clearly manifests ; and so you have both designs exprest at once . yea , we are not a little induced to think , that the divisions , breaches , &c. of those primitive churches would not have been so frequent among the people themselves , and not the elders onely , had not the freedom , liberties and rights of the members ( the brethren , we mean ) been stated and exercised in those churches , the same which we maintain and contend for to be in ours . yea ( which perhaps may seem more strange to many ) had not those churches been constituted of members inlightned further then with notional and traditional knowledge , by a new and more powerful light of the holy ghost , wherein they had been made partakers of the holy ghost , and the heavenly gift , and their hearts had tasted the good word of god , and the powers of the world to come , and of such members at lowest , there had not fallen out those kindes of divisions among them . for experience hath shewn , that the common sort of meer doctrinal professors ( such as the most are now a days ) whose highest elevation is but freedom from moral scandal joyned with devotion to christ through meer education , such as in many turks is found towards mahomet , that these finding and feeling themselves not much concerned in the active part of religion , so they may have the honor ( especially upon a reformation of a new refinement ) that themselves are approved members , admitted to the lords supper , and their children to the ordinance of baptism ; they regard not other matters ( as gallio did not ) but do easily and readily give up themselves unto their guides , being like dead fishes carried with the common stream ; whereas those that have a further renewed light by a work of the holy ghost , whether saving or temporary , are upon the quite contrary grounds apt to be busie about , and inquisitive into , what they are to receive and practise , or wherein their consciences are professedly concerned and involved : and thereupon they take the freedom to examine and try the spirits , whether of god or no : and from hence are more apt to dissatisfaction , and from thence to run into division , and many of such proving to be inlightned but with a temporary , not saving faith ( who have such a work of the spirit upon them , and profession in them , as will and doth approve it self to the judgement of saints , and ought to be so judged , until they be otherwise discovered ) who at long run , prove hypocrites through indulgence unto lusts , and then out of their lusts persist to hold up these divisions unto breach of , or departings ▪ from churches , and the ordinances of god , and god is even with them for it , they waxing worse and worse , deceiving and being deceived ; and even many of those that are sincere , through a mixture of darkness and erroneousness in their judgements , are for a season apt out of conscience to be led away with the error of others , which lie in wait to deceive . insomuch as the apostle upon the example of those first times , foreseeing also the like events in following generations upon the like causes , hath been bold to set this down as a ruled case , that likewise in other churches so constituted and de facto empriviledged as that of the church of corinth was ( which single church , in the sacred records about it , is the compleatest mirror of church-constitution , order and government , and events thereupon ensuing , of any one church whatever that we have story of ) his maxim is , there must be also divisions amongst you ; he setly inserts an [ also ] in the case , as that which had been in his own observation , and that which would be {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} the fate of other churches like thereunto , so prophesieth he : and he speaks this as peremptorily as he doth elsewhere in that other , we must through many tribulations enter into the kingdom of heaven : yea , and that all that will live godly in christ jesus , shall suffer persecution : there is a [ must ] upon both alike , and we bless god , that we have run through both , and do say , and we say no more ; that as it was then , so it is now , in both respects . however , such hath been the powerful hand of gods providence in these , which have been the worst of our tryals , that out of an approved experience and observation of the issue , we are able to add that other part of the apostles prediction , that therefore such rents must be , that they which are approved may be made manifest among you ; which holy issue god ( as having aimed at it therein ) doth frequently and certainly bring about in churches , as he doth bring upon them that other fate of division . let them therefore look unto it , that are the authors of such disturbances , as the apostle warneth , gal. 5.10 . the experiment is this , that we have seen , and do daily see , that multitudes of holy and precious souls , and ( in the holy ghosts word ) approved saints , have been , and are the more rooted and grounded by means of these shakings , and do continue to cleave the faster to christ , and the purity of his ordinances , and value them the more by this cost god hath put them to for the enjoying of them , who having been planted in the house of the lord , have flourished in the courts of our god , in these evil times , to shew that the lord is upright . and this experimented event from out of such divisions , hath more confirmed us , and is a lowder apologie for us , then all that our opposites are able from our breaches to alleadge to prejudice us . we will add a few words for conclusion , and give a more particular account of this our declaration . in drawing up this confession of faith , we have had before us the articles of religion , approved and passed by both houses of parliament , after advice had with an assembly of divines , called together by them for that purpose . to which confession , for the substance of it , we fully assent , as do our brethren of new-england , and the churches also of scotland , as each in their general synods have testified . a few things we have added for obviating some erroneous opinions , that have been more broadly and boldly here of late maintained by the asserters , then in former times ; and made other additions and alterations in method , here and there , and some clearer explanations , as we found occasion . we have endeavored throughout , to hold to such truths in this our confession , as are more properly termed matters of faith ; and what is of church-order , we dispose in certain propositions by it self . to this course we are led by the example of the honorable houses of parliament , observing what was established , and what omitted by them in that confession the assembly presented to them . who thought it not convenient to have matters of discipline and church-government put into a confession of faith , especially such particulars thereof , as then were , and still are controverted and under dispute by men orthodox and sound in faith . the 30th cap. therefore of that confession , as it was presented to them by the assembly , which is of church-censures , their use , kindes , and in whom placed : as also cap. 31. of synods and councels , by whom to be called , of what force in their decrees and determinations . and the 4th paragr. of the 20th cap. which determines what opinions and practises disturb the peace of the church , and how such disturbers ought to be proceeded against by the censures of the church , and punished by the civil magistrate . also a great part of the 24th cap. of marriage and divorce . these were such doubtful assertions , and so unsutable to a confession of faith , as the honorable houses in their great wisdom thought fit to lay them aside : there being nothing that tends more to heighten dissentings among brethren , then to determine and adopt the matter of their difference , under so high a title as to be an article of our ●●ith : so that there are two whole chapters , and some paragraphs in other chapters in their confession , that we have upon this account omitted and the rather do we give this notice , because that copy of the parliaments , followed by us , is in few mens hands ; the other as it came from the assembly , being approved of in scotland , was printed and hastened ●nto the world before the parliament had declared their resolutions about it ; which was not till june 20. 1648. and yet hath been , and continueth to be the copy ( ordinarily ) onely sold , printed and reprinted for these eleven years . after the 19th cap. of the law , we have added a cap. of the gospel , it being a title that may not well be omitted in a confession of faith . in which chapter , what is dispersed , and by intimation in the assemblies confession with some little addition , is here brought together , and more fully under one head . that there are not scriptures annexed as in some confessions ( though in divers others it 's otherwise ) we give the same account as did the reverend assembly in the same case : which was this ; the confession being large , and so framed , as to meet with the common errors , if the scriptures should have been alleadged with any clearness , and by shewing where the strength of the proof lieth , it would have required a volume . we say further , it being our utmost end in this ( as it is indeed of a confession ) humbly to give an account what we hold and assert in these matters ; that others , especially the churches of christ may judge of us accordingly . this we aimed at , and not so much to instruct others , or convince gainsayers . these are the proper works of other institutions of christ , and are to be done in the strength of express scripture . a confession is an ordinance of another nature . what we have laid down and asserted about churches and their government , we humbly conceive to be the order which christ himself hath appointed to be observed , we have endeavored to follow scripture-light ; and those also that went before us according to that rule , desirous of nearest uniformity with reforming churches , as with our brethren in new england , so with others , that differ from them and us . the models and platforms of this subject laid down by learned men , and practised by churches , are various : we do not judge it brotherly , or grateful , to insist upon comparisons as some have done ; but this experience teacheth , that the variety , and possibly the disputes and emulations arising thence , have much strengthened , if not fixed , this unhapy perswasion in the mindes of some learned and good men , namely , that there is no settled order laid down in scripture ; but it 's left to the prudence of the christian magistrate , to compose or make choice of such a form as is most sutable and consistent with their civil government . where this opinion is entertained in the perswasion of governors , there , churches asserting their power and order to be jure divino , and the appointment of jesus christ , can have no better nor more honorable entertainment , then a toleration or permission . yet herein there is this remarkable advantage to all parties that differ , about what in government is of christs appointment ; in that such magistrates have a far greater ●●●●tude in conscience , to tolerate and permit the several forms of each so bound up in their perswasion , then they have to submit unto what the magistrate shall impose : and thereupon the magistrate exercising an indulgency and forbearance , with protection and encouragement to the people of god , so differing from him , and amongst themselves : doth therein discharge as great a faithfulness to christ ▪ and love to his people , as can any way be supposed and expected from any christian magistrate , of what perswasion soever he is . and where this clemency from governors is shewed to any sort of persons or churches of christ upon such a principle , it will in equity produce this just effect , that all that so differ from him , and amongst themselves , standing in equal and alike difference from the principle of such a magistrate , he is equally free to give a like liberty to them , one as well as the other . this faithfulness in our governors we do with thankfulness to god acknowledge , and to their everlasting honor , which appeared much in the late reformation . the hicrarchie , common-prayer-book , and all other things grievous to gods people , being removed , they made choice of an assembly of learned men , to advise what government and order is meet to be established in the room of these things ; and because it was known there were different opinions ( as always hath been among godly men ) about forms of church-government , there was by the ordinance first sent forth to call an assembly , not onely a choice made of persons of several perswasions to sit as members there , but liberty given , to a lesser number , if dissenting , to report their judgements and reasons , 〈◊〉 well and as freely as the major part . hereupon the honorable house of commons ( an indulgence we hope will never be forgotten ) finding by papers received from them , that the members of the assembly were not like to compose differences amongst themselves , so as to joyn in the same rule for church-government , did order further as followeth : that a committee of lords and commons , &c. do take into consideration the differences of the opinions in the assembly of divines in point of church-government , and to endeavor a union if it be possible ; and in case that cannot be done , to endeavor the finding out some way , how far tender conferences , who cannot in all things submit to the same rule which shall be established , may be born with according to the word , and as may stand with the publique peace . by all which it is evident the parliament purposed not to establish the rule of church-government with such rigor , as might not permit and bear with a practise different from what they had established : in persons and churches of different principles , if occasion were . and this christian clemency and indulgence in our governors , hath been the foundation of that freedom and liberty , in the managing of church-affairs , which our brethren , as well as we , that differ from them , do now , and have many years enjoyed . the honorable houses by several ordinances of parliament after much consultation , having settled rules for church-government , and such an ecclesiastical order as they judged would best joynt with the laws and government of the kingdom , did publish them , requiring the practise hereof throughout the nation ; and in particular , by the ministers of the province of london . but ( upon the former reason , or the like charitable consideration ) these rules were not imposed by them under any penalty or rigorous inforcement , though frequently urged thereunto by some . our reverend brethren of the province of london , having considered of these ordinances , and the church-government laid down in them , declared their opinions to be , that there is not a compleat rule in those ordinances ; also , that there are many necessary things not yet established , and some things wherein their consciences are not so fully satisfied . these brethren in the same paper , have published also their joynt resolution to practise in all things according to the rule of the word , and according to these ordinances , so far as they conceive them correspond to it , and in so doing they trust they shall not grieve the spirit of the truly godly , nor give any just occasion to them that are contrary minded , to blame their proceedings . we humbly conceive ( that we being dissatisfied in these things as our brethren ) the like liberty was intended by the honorable houses , and may be taken by us of the congregational way ( without blame or grief to the spirits of those brethren at least ) to resolve , or rather to continue in the same resolution and practise in these matters , which indeed were our practises in times of greatest opposition , and before this reformation was begun . and as our brethren the ministers of london , drew up and published their opinions and apprehensions about church-government into an intire system ; so we now give the like publique account of our consciences , and the rules by which we have constantly practised hitherto ; which we have here drawn up , and do present . whereby it will appear how much , or how little we differ in these things from our presbyterian brethren . and we trust there is no just cause why any man , either for our differing from the present settlement , it being out of conscience , and not out of contempt , or our differences one from another , being not wilful , should charge either of us with that odious reproach of schism . and indeed , if not for our differing from the state-settlement , much less because we differ from our brethren , our differences being in some lesser things , and circumstances onely , as themselves acknowledge . and let it be further considered , that we have not broken from them or their order by these differences ( but rather they from us ) and in that respect we less deserve their censure ; our practise being no other then what it was in our breaking from episcopacy , and long before presbytery , or any such form as now they are in , was taken up by them ; and we will not say how probable it is that the yoke of episcopacy had been upon our neck to this day , if some such way ( as formerly , and now is , and hath been termed schism ) had not with much suffering bin then practised & since continued in . for novelty , wherewith we are likewise both charged by the enemies of both , it is true , in respect of the publique and open profession , either of presbytery or independency , this nation hath been a stranger to each way , it 's possible ever since it hath been christian ; though for our-selves we are able to trace the footsteps of an independent congregational way in the ancientest customs of the churches , as also in the writings of our soundest protestant divines , and ( that which we are much satisfied in ) a full concurrence throughout in all the substantial parts of church-government , with our reverend brethren the old puritan non-conformists , who being instant in prayer and much sufferings , prevailed with the lord , and we reap with joy , what they sowed in tears . our brethren also that are for presbyterial subordinations , profess what is of weight against novelty for their way . and now therefore seeing the lord , in whose hand is the heart of princes , hath put into the hearts of our governors to tolerate and permit ( as they have done many years ) persons of each perswasion , to enjoy their consciences , though neither come up to the rule established by authority : and that which is more , to give us both protection , and the same encouragement that the most devoted conformists in those former superstitious times enjoyed , yea , and by a publique law to establish this liberty for time to come ; and yet further , in the midst of our fears , to set over us a prince that owns this establishment , and cordially resolves to secure our churches in the enjoyment of these liberties , if we abuse them not to the disturbance of the civil peace . this should be a very great engagement upon the hearts of all , though of different perswasions , to endeavor our utmost , joyntly to promove the honor and prosperity of such a government and governors by whatsoever means , which in our callings as ministers of the gospel , and as churches of jesus christ the prince of peace , we are any way able to ; as also to be peaceably disposed one towards another , and with mutual toleration to love as brethren , notwithstanding such differences , remembring , as it 's very equal we should , the differences that are between presbyterians and independents , being differences between fellow-servants , and neither of them having authority given from god or man , to impose their opinions , one more then the other . that our governors after so solemn an establishment , should thus bear with us both , in our greater differences from their rule , and after this , for any of us to take a fellow-servant by the throat , upon the account of a lesser reckoning , and nothing due to him upon it : is to forget , at least not to exercise , that compassion and tenderness we have found , where we had less ground to challenge or expect it . our prayer unto god is , that whereto we have already attained , we all may walk by the same rule , and that wherein we are otherwise minded , god would reveal it to us in his due time . books sold by john allen at the sun rising in pauls church-yard , viz. mr. caryls fifth volume on the book of job , in quarto . mr. caryls seventh volume on the book of job , in quarto . bezae novum testamentum , in folio . mr. allens scripture chronology , in quarto . mr. baxters call to the unconverted . mr. cotton on the covenant , intended suddenly for the press . mr. lukins practice of godliness . mr. burgess of original sin . pareus on the revelation , in folio . mr. gataker against judicial astrology , wherein he proves it to be the way and practice of heathens , and ought not to be so much as named by them that profess the name of christ . esay 47.12 , 13. jer. 10.2 . the history of the evangelical churches of the valleys of piemont , containing a most exact description of the place , and a faithful account of the doctrine , life and persecutions of the ancient inhabitants , together with a most naked and punctual relation of the late bloody massacre 1655. and a narrative of all the following transactions to 1658. justifi●d partly by divers ancient manuscripts , written many hundred years before calvin or luther . by samuel morlaend esq in folio . the humbled sinner resolved what he should do to be saved : or faith in the lord jesus christ , the onely way of salvation , by mr. obadiah sedgwick , in quarto . the riches of grace displayed in the offer and tender of salvation to poor sinners , by the same author , in twelves . the fountain opened , and the water of life flowing forth , for the refreshing of thirsty sinners , by the same author , quarto . the gospels glory , without prejudice to the law , shining forth in the glory of god the father , son and holy ghost , for the salvation of sinners , by mr. richard byfield , in octavo . a declaration of the faith and order owned and practised in the congregational churches in england . chap. i. of the holy scripture . although the light of nature , and the works of creation and providence , do so far manifest the goodness , wisdom and power of god , as to leave men unexcusable ; yet are they not sufficient to give that knowledge of god and of his will , which is necessary unto salvation : therefore it pleased the lord at sundry times , and in divers maners to reveal himself , and to declare that his will unto his church ; and afterwards for the better preserving and propagating of the truth , and for the more sure establishment and comfort of the church against the corruption of the flesh , and the malice of satan and of the world , to commit the same wholly unto writing : which maketh the holy scripture to be most necessary ; those former ways of gods revealing his will unto his people , being now ceased . ii. under the name of the holy scripture , or the word of god written , are now contained all the books of the old and new testament ; which are these : of the old testament . genesis , exodus , leviticus , numbers , deuteronomy , joshua , judges , ruth , 1 samuel , 2 samuel , 1 kings , 2 kings , 1 chronicles , 2 chronicles , ezra , nehemiah , esther , job , psalms , proverbs , ecclesiastes , the song of songs , isaiah , jeremiah , lamentations , ezekiel , daniel , hosea , joel , amos , obadiah , jonah , micah , nahum , habakkuk , zephaniah , haggai , zechariah , malachi . of the new testament . matthew , mark , luke , john , the acts of the apostles , pauls epistle to the romans , 1 corinthians , 2 corinthians , galatians , ephesians , philippians , colossians , 1 thessalonians , 2 thessalonians , 1 to timothy , 2 to timothy , to titus , to philemon , the epistle to the hebrews , the epistle of james , the first and second epistles of peter , the first , second and third epistles of john , the epistle of jude , the revelation . all which are given by the inspiration of god to be the rule of faith and life . iii. the books commonly called apocrypha , not being of divine inspiration , are no part of the canon of the scripture ; and therefore are of no authority in the church of god , nor to be any otherwise approved or made use of , then other humane writings . iv. the authority of the holy scripture , for which it ought to be believed and obeyed , dependeth not upon the testimony of any man or church ; but wholly upon god ( who is truth it self ) the author thereof ; and therefore it is to be received , because it is the word of god . v. we may be moved and induced by the testimony of the church , to an high and reverent esteem of the holy scripture . and the heavenliness of the matter , the efficacy of the doctrine , the majesty of the style , the consent of all the parts , the scope of the whole , ( which is , to give all glory to god ) the full discovery it makes of the onely way of mans salvation , the many other incomparable excellencies , and the intire perfection thereof , are arguments whereby it doth abundantly evidence it self to be the word of god ; yet notwithstanding , our full perswasion and assurance of the infallible truth and divine authority thereof , is from the inward work of the holy spirit , bearing witness by and with the word in our hearts . vi . the whole counsel of god concerning all things necessary for his own glory , mans salvation , faith and life , is either expresly set down in scripture , or by good and necessary consequence may be deduced from scripture ; unto which nothing at any time is to be added , whether by new revelations of the spirit , or traditions of men . nevertheless we acknowledge the inward illumination of the spirit of god to be necessary for the saving understanding of such things as are revealed in the word : and that there are some circumstances concerning the worship of god and government of the church , common to humane actions and societies , which are to be ordered by the light of nature and christian prudence , according to the general rules of the word , which are always to be observed . vii . all things in scripture are not alike plain in themselves , nor alike clear unto all : yet those things which are necessary to be known , believed and observed for salvation , are so clearly propounded and opened in some place of scripture or other , that not onely the learned , but the unlearned , in a due use of the ordinary means , may attain unto a sufficient understanding of them . viii . the old testament in hebrew ( which was the native language of the people of god of old ) and the new testament in greek ( which at the time of writing of it was most generally known to the nations ) being immediately inspired by god , and by his singular care and providence kept pure in all ages , are therefore authentical ; so as in all controversies of religion the church is finally to appeal unto them . but because these original tongues are not known to all the people of god , who have right unto and interest in the scriptures , and are commanded in the fear of god to read and search them ; therefore they are to be translated into the vulgar language of every nation unto which they come , that the word of god dwelling plentifully in all , they may worship him in an acceptable maner , and through patience and comfort of the scriptures may have hope . ix . the infallible rule of interpretation of scripture , is the scripture it self ; and therefore when there is a question about the true and full sense of any scripture ( which is not manifold , but one ) it must be searched and known by other places , that speak more clearly . x. the supreme judge by which all controversies of religion are to be determined , and all decrees of councels , opinions of ancient writers , doctrines of men and private spirits , are to be examined , and in whose sentence we are to rest , can be no other , but the holy scripture delivered by the spirit ; into which scripture so delivered , our faith is finally resolved . chap. ii. of god and of the holy trinity . there is but one onely living and true god ; who is infinite in being and perfection , a most pure spirit , invisible , without body , parts , or passions , immutable , immense , eternal , incomprehensible , almighty , most wise , most holy , most free , most absolute , working all things according to the counsel of his own immutable and most righteous will , for his own glory , most loving , gracious , merciful , long-suffering , abundant in goodness and truth , forgiving iniquity , transgression and sin , the rewarder of them that diligently seek him ; and withal , most just and terrible in his judgements , hating all sin , and who will by no means clear the guilty . ii. god hath all life , glory , goodness , blessedness , in , and of himself ; and is alone , in , and unto himself , all-sufficient , not standing in need of any creatures which he hath made , nor deriving any glory from them , but onely manifesting his own glory in , by , unto , and upon them : he is the alone fountain of all being , of whom , through whom , and to whom are all things ; and hath most soveraign dominion over them , to do by them , for them , or upon them , whatsoever himself pleaseth : in his sight all things are open and manifest , his knowledge is infinite , infallible , and independent upon the creature , so as nothing is to him contingent or uncertain . he is most holy in all his counsels , in all his works , and in all his commands . to him is due from angels and men , and every other creature , whatsoever worship , service or obedience , as creatures , they owe unto the creator , and whatever he is further pleased to require of them . iii. in the unity of the god-head there be three persons , of one substance , power , and eternity , god the father , god the son , and god the holy ghost : the father is of none , neither begotten , nor proceeding ; the son is eternally begotten of the father ; the holy ghost eternally proceeding from the father and the son . which doctrine of the trinity is the foundation of all our communion with god , and comfortable dependence upon him . chap. iii. of gods eternal decree . god from all eternity did by the most wise and holy counsel of his own will , freely and unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass : yet so , as thereby neither is god the author of sin , nor is violence offered to the will of the creatures , nor is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away , but rather established . ii. although god knows whatsoever may or can come to pass upon all supposed conditions , yet hath he not decreed any thing , because he foresaw it as future , or as that which would come to pass upon such conditions . iii. by the decree of god for the manifestation of his glory , some men and angels are predestinated unto everlasting life , and others fore-ordained to everlasting death . iv. these angels and men thus predestinated , and fore-ordained , are particularly and unchangeably designed , and their number is so certain and definite , that it cannot be either increased or diminished . v. those of mankinde that are predestinated unto life , god , before the foundation of the world was laid , according to his eternal and immutable purpose , and the secret counsel and good pleasure of his will , hath chosen in christ unto everlasting glory , out of his meer free grace and love , without any fore-sight of faith or good works , or perseverance in either of them , or any other thing in the creature , as conditions or causes moving him thereunto , and all to the praise of his glorious grace . vi . as god hath appointed the elect unto glory , so hath he by the eternal and most free purpose of his will fore-ordained all the means thereunto : wherefore they who are elected , being faln in adam , are redeemed by christ , are effectually called unto faith in christ by his spirit working in due season , are justified , adopted , sanctified , and kept by his power , through faith , unto salvation . neither are any other redeemed by christ , or effectually called , justified , adopted , sanctified and saved , but the elect onely . vii . the rest of mankinde god was pleased , according to the unsearchable counsel of his own will , whereby he extendeth or withholdeth mercy , as he pleaseth , for the glory of his soveraign power over his creatures , to pass by , and to ordain them to dishonor and wrath for their sin to the praise of his glorious justice . viii . the doctrine of this high mystery of predestination is to be handled with special prudence and care , that men attending the will of god revealed in his word , and yielding obedience thereunto , may from the certainty of their effectual vocation , be assured of their eternal election . so shall this doctrine afford matter of praise , reverence and admiration of god , and of humility , diligence , and abundant consolation to all that sincerely obey the gospel . chap. iv. of creation . it pleased god the father , son and holy ghost , for the manifestation of the glory of his eternal power , wisdom and goodness , in the beginning to create or make of nothing the world , and all things therein , whether visible or invisible , in the space of six days , and all very good . ii. after god had made all other creatures , he created man , male and female , with reasonable and immortal souls , endued with knowledge , righteousness and true holiness , after his own image , having the law of god written in their heart , and power to fulfil it ; and yet under a possibility of transgressing , being left to the liberty of their own will , which was subject unto change . besides this law written in their hearts , they received a command not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil ; which whiles they kept , they were happy in their communion with god , and had dominion over the creatures . chap. v. of providence . god the great creator of all things , doth uphold , direct , dispose and govern all creatures , actions , and things from the greatest even to the least by his most wise and holy providence , according unto his infallible fore-knowledge , and the free and immutable counsel of his own will , to the praise of the glory of his wisdom , power , justice , goodness and mercy . ii. although in relation to the fore-knowledge and decree of god , the first caufe , all things come to pass immutably , and infallibly ; yet by the same providence he ordereth them to fall out , according to the nature of second causes , either necessarily , freely , or contingently . iii. god in his ordinary providence maketh use of means , yet is free to work without , above , and against them at his pleasure . iv. the almighty power , unsearchable wisdom , and infinite goodness of god , so far manifest themselves in his providence , in that his determinate counsel extendeth it self even to the first fall , and all other sins of angels and men ( and that not by a bare permission ) which also he most wisely and powerfully boundeth , and otherwise ordereth and governeth in a manifold dispensation to his own most holy ends ; yet so , as the sinfulness thereof proceedeth onely from the creature , and not from god , who being most holy and righteous , neither is , nor can be the author or approver of sin . v. the most wise , righteous and gracious god doth oftentimes leave for a season his own children to manifold temptations , and the corruption of their own hearts , to chastise them for their former sins , or to discover unto them the hidden strength of corruption , and deceitfulness of their hearts , that they may be humbled ; and to raise them to a more close and constant dependence for their support upon himself , and to make them more watchful against all future occasions of sin , and for sundry other just and holy ends . vi . as for those wicked and ungodly men , whom god as a righteous judge , for former sins , doth blinde and harden , from them he not onely withholdeth his grace , whereby they might have been inlightned in their understandings , and wrought upon in their hearts ; but sometimes also withdraweth the gifts which they had , and exposeth them to such objects , as their corruption makes occasions of sin ; and withal gives them over to their own lusts , the temptations of the world , and the power of satan ; whereby it comes to pass that they harden themselves , even under those means which god useth for the softning of others . vii . as the providence of god doth in general reach to all creatures , so after a most special maner it taketh care of his church , and disposeth all things to the good thereof . chap. vi . of the fall of man , of sin , and of the punishment thereof . god having made a covenant of works and life , thereupon , with our first parents and all their posterity in them , they being seduced by the subtilty and temptation of satan , did wilfully transgress the law of their creation , and break the covenant in eating the forbidden fruit . ii. by this sin they , and we in them , fell from original righteousness and communion with god , and so became dead in sin , and wholly defiled in all the faculties and parts of soul and body . iii. they being the root , and by gods appointment standing in the room and stead of all mankinde , the guilt of this sin was imputed , and corrupted nature conveyed to all their posterity descending from them by ordinary generation . iv. from this original corruption , whereby we are utterly indisposed , disabled and made opposite to all good , and wholly inclined to all evil , do proceed all actual transgression . v. this corruption of nature during this life , doth remain in those that are regenerated ; and although it be through christ pardoned and mortified , yet both it self and all the motions thereof are truely and properly sin . vi . every sin , both original and actual , being a transgression of the righteous law of god , and contrary thereunto , doth in its own nature bring guilt upon the sinner , whereby he is bound over to the wrath of god , and curse of the law , and so made subject to death , with all miseries spiritual , temporal and eternal . chap. vii . of gods covenant with man . the distance between god and the creature is so great , that although reasonable creatures do owe obedience unto him as their creator , yet they could never have attained the reward of life , but by some voluntary condescension on gods part , which he hath been pleased to express by way of covenant . ii. the first covenant made with man , was a covenant of works , wherein life was promised to adam , and in him to his posterity , upon condition of perfect and personal obedience . iii. man by his fall having made himself uncapable of life by that covenant , the lord was pleased to make a second , commonly called the covenant of grace ; wherein he freely offereth unto sinners life and salvation by jesus christ , requiring of them faith in him that they may be saved , and promising to give unto all those that are ordained unto life , his holy spirit , to make them willing and able to believe . iv. this covenant of grace is frequently set forth in the scripture by the name of a testament , in reference to the death of jesus christ the testator , and to the everlasting inheritance , with all things belonging to it , therein bequeathed . v. although this covenant hath been differently and variously administred in respect of ordinances and institutions in the time of the law , and since the coming of christ in the flesh ; yet for the substance and efficacy of it , to all its spiritual and saving ends , it is one and the same ; upon the account of which various dispensations , it is called the old and new testament . chap. viii . of christ the mediator . it pleased god in his eternal purpose , to chuse and ordain the lord jesus his onely begotten son , according to a covenant made between them both , to be the mediator between god and man ; the prophet , priest , and king , the head and savior of his church , the heir of all things , and judge of the world ; unto whom he did from all eternity give a people to be his feed , and to be by him in time redeemed , called , justified , sanctified , and glorified . ii. the son of god , the second person in the trinity , being very and eternal god , of one substance , and equal with the father , did , when the fulness of time was come , take upon him mans nature , with all the essential properties and common infirmities thereof , yet without sin , being conceived by the power of the holy ghost in the womb of the virgin mary of her substance : so that two whole perfect and distinct natures , the godhead and the manhood , were inseparably joyned together in one person , without conversion , composition , or confusion ; which person is very god and very man , yet one christ , the onely mediator between god and man . iii. the lord jesus in his humane nature , thus united to the divine in the person of the son , was sanctified and anointed with the holy spirit above measure , having in him all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge , in whom it pleased the father that all fulness should dwell , to the end that being holy , harmless , undefiled , and full of grace and truth , he might be throughly furnished to execute the office of a mediator and surety ; which office he took not unto himself , but was thereunto called by his father , who also put all power and judgement into his hand , and gave him commandment to execute the same . iv. this office the lord jesus did most willingly undertake ; which that he might discharge , he was made under the law , and did perfectly fulfil it , and underwent the punishment due to us , which we should have born and suffered , being made sin and a curse for us , enduring most grievous torments immediately from god in his soul , and most painful sufferings in his body , was crucified , and died , was buried , and remained under the power of death , yet saw no corruption , on the third day he arose from the dead with the same body in which he suffered , with which also he ascended into heaven , and there sitteth at the right hand of his father , making intercession , and shall return to judge men and angels at the end of the world . v. the lord jesus by his perfect obedience and sacrifice of himself , which he through the eternal spirit once offered up unto god , hath fully satisfied the justice of god , and purchased not onely reconciliation , but an everlasting inheritance in the kingdom of heaven , for all those whom the father hath given unto him . vi . athough the work of redemption was not actually wrought by christ , till after his incarnation ; yet the vertue , efficacy and benefits thereof were communicated to the elect in all ages successively from the beginning of the world , in and by those promises , types and sacrifices , wherein he was revealed and signified to be the seed of the woman , which should bruise the serpents head , and the lamb slain from the beginning of the world , being yesterday and to day the same , and for ever . vii . christ in the work of mediation acteth according to both natures , by each nature doing that which is proper to it self ; yet by reason of the unity of the person , that which is proper to one nature , is sometimes in scripture attributed to the person denominated by the other nature , viii . to all those for whom christ hath purchased redemption , he doth certainly and effectually apply and communicate the same , making intercession for them , and revealing unto them in and by the word , the mysteries of salvation , effectually perswading them by his spirit to believe and obey , and governing their hearts by his word and spirit , overcoming all their enemies by his almighty power and wisdom , in such maner and ways as are most consonant to his wonderful and unsearchable dispensation . chap. ix . of free-will . god hath endued the will of man with that natural liberty and power of acting upon choice , that it is neither forced , nor by any absolute necessity of nature determined to do good or evil . ii. man in his state of innocency had freedom and power to will and to do that which was good and well pleasing to god ; but yet mutably , so that he might fall from it . iii. man by his fall into a state of sin , hath wholly lost all ability of will to any spiritual good accompanying salvation ; so as a natural man being altogether averse from that good , and dead in sin , is not able by his own strength to convert himself , or to prepare himself thereunto . iv. when god converts a sinner , and translates him into the state of grace , he freeth him from his natural bondage under sin , and by his grace alone inables him freely to will and to do that which is spiritually good ; yet so , as that by reason of his remaining corruption , he doth not perfectly nor onely will that which is good , but doth also will that which is evil . v. the will of man is made perfectly and immutably free to good alone in the state of glory onely . chap. x. of effectual calling . all those whom god hath predestinated unto life , and those onely , he is pleased in his appointed and accepted time effectually to call by his word and spirit , out of that state of sin and death in which they are by nature , to grace and salvation by jesus christ , inlightning their mindes spiritually and savingly to understand the things of god , taking away their heart of stone , and giving unto them an heart of flesh , renewing their wills , and by his almighty power determining them to that which is good , and effectually drawing them to jesus christ ; yet so , as they come most freely , being made willing by his grace . ii. this effectual call is of gods free and special grace alone , not from any thing at all foreseen in man , who is altogether passive therein , until being quickned and renewed by the holy spirit , he is thereby enabled to answer this call , and to embrace the grace offered and conveyed in it . iii. elect infants dying in infancy , are regenerated and saved by christ , who worketh when , and where , and how he pleaseth : so also are all other elect persons who are uncapable of being outwardly called by the ministery of the word . iv. others not elected , although they may be called by the ministery of the word , and may have some common operations of the spirit , yet not being effectually drawn by the father , they neither do nor can come unto christ , and therefore cannot be saved ; much less can men not professing the christian religion , be saved in any other way whatsoever , be they never so diligent to frame their lives according to the light of nature , and the law of that religion they do profess : and to assert and maintain that they may , is very pernicious , and to be detested . chap. xi . of justification . those whom god effectually calleth , he also freely justifieth , not by infusing righteousness into them , but by pardoning their sins , and by accounting and accepting their persons as righteous , not for any thing wrought in them , or done by them , but for christs sake alone ; nor by imputing faith it self , the act of believing , or any other evangelical obedience to them , as their righteousness , but by imputing christs active obedience unto the whole law , and passive obedience in his death , for their whole and sole righteousness , they receiving and resting on him and his righteousness by faith , which faith they have not of themselves , it is the gift of god . ii. faith thus receiving and resting on christ , and his righteousness , is the alone instrument of justification ; yet it is not alone in the person justified , but is ever accompanied with all other saving graces , and is no dead faith , but worketh by love . iii. christ by his obedience and death did fully discharge the debt of all those that are justified , and did by the sacrifice of himself , in the blood of his cross , undergoing in their stead the penalty due unto them , make a proper , real , and full satisfaction to gods justice in their behalf : yet in as much as he was given by the father for them , and his obedience and satisfaction accepted in their stead , and both freely , not for any thing in them , their justification is onely of free grace , that both the exact justice and rich grace of god might be glorified in the justification of sinners . iv. god did from all eternity decree to justifie all the elect , and christ did in the fulness of time die for their sins , and rise again for their justification : nevertheless , they are not justified personally , until the holy spirit doth in due time actually apply christ unto them . v. god doth continue to forgive the sins of those that are justified ; and although they can never fall from the state of justification , yet they may by their sins fall under gods fatherly displeasure : and in that condition they have not usually the light of his countenance restored unto them , until they humble themselves , confess their sins , beg pardon , and renew their faith and repentance . vi . the justification of believers under the old testament , was in all these respects one and the same with the justification of believers under the new testament . chap. xii . of adoption . all those that are justified , god vouchsafeth in and for his onely son jesus christ to make partakers of the grace of adoption , by which they are taken into the number , and enjoy the liberties and priviledges of the children of god , have this name put upon them , receive the spirit of adoption , have access to the throne of grace with boldness , are enabled to cry abba father , are pitied , protected , provided for , and chastened by him as by a father , yet never cast off , but sealed to the day of redemption , and inherit the promises as heirs of everlasting salvation . chap. xiii . of sanctification . they that are united to christ , effectually called and regenerated , having a new heart and a new spirit created in them , through the vertue of christs death and resurrection , are also further sanctified really and personally through the same vertue , by his word and spirit dwelling in them ; the dominion of the whole body of sin is destroyed , and the several lusts thereof are more and more weakned and mortified , and they more and more quickned , and strengthned in all saving graces , to the practice of all true holiness , without which no man shall see the lord . ii. this sanctification is throughout in the whole man , yet imperfect in this life , there abideth still some remnants of corruption in every part , whence ariseth a continual and irreconcileable war , the flesh lusting against the spirit , and the spirit against the flesh . iii. in which war , although the remaining corruption for a time may much prevail , yet through the continual supply of strength from the sanctifying spirit of christ , the regenerate part doth overcome , and so the saints grow in grace , perfecting holiness in the fear of god . chap. xiv . of saving faith . the grace of faith , whereby the elect are inabled to believe to the saving of their souls , is the work of the spirit of christ in their hearts , and is ordinarily wrought by the ministery of the word ; by which also , and by the administration of the seals , prayer , and other means , it is increased and strengthened . ii. by this faith a christian believeth to be true whatsoever is revealed in the word , for the authority of god himself speaking therein , and acteth differently upon that which each particular passage thereof containeth , yielding obedience to the commands , trembling at the threatnings , and embracing the promises of god for this life , and that which is to come . but the principal acts of saving faith are , accepting , receiving , and resting upon christ alone , for justification , sanctification , and eternal life , by vertue of the covenant of grace . iii. this faith , although it be different in degrees , and may be weak or strong , yet it is in the least degree of it different in the kinde or nature of it ( as is all other saving grace ) from the faith and common grace of temporary believers ; and therefore , though it may be many times assailed and weakned , yet it gets the victory , growing up in many to the attainment of a full assurance through christ , who is both the author and finisher of our faith . chap. xv . of repentance unto life and salvation . such of the elect as are converted at riper years , having sometime lived in the state of nature , and therein served divers lusts and pleasures , god in their effectual calling giveth them repentance unto life . ii. whereas there is none that doth good , and sinneth not , and the best of men may through the power and deceitfulness of their corruptions dwelling in them , with the prevalency of temptation , fall into great sins and provocations ; god hath in the covenant of grace mercifully provided , that believers so sinning and falling , be renewed through repentance unto salvation . iii. this saving repentance is an evangelical grace , whereby a person being by the holy ghost made sensible of the manifold evils of his sin , doth by faith in christ humble himself for it with godly sorrow , detestation of it , and self-abhorrency , praying for pardon and strength of grace , with a purpose , and endeavor by supplies of the spirit , to walk before god unto all well-pleasing in all things . iv. as repentance is to be continued through the whole course of our lives , upon the account of the body of death , and the motions thereof ; so it is every mans duty to repent of his particular known sins particularly . v. such is the provision which god hath made through christ in the covenant of grace , for the preservation of believers unto salvation , that although there is no sin so small , but it deserves damnation ; yet there is no sin so great , that it shall bring damnation on them who truly repent ; which makes the constant preaching of repentance necessary . chap. xvi . of good works . good works are onely such as god hath commanded in his holy word , and not such as without the warrant thereof are devised by men out of blinde zeal , or upon any pretence of good intentions . ii. these good works done in obedience to gods commandments , are the fruits and evidences of a true and lively faith , and by them believers manifest their thankfulness , strengthen their assurance , edifie their brethren , adorn the profession of the gospel , stop the mouthes of the adversaries , and glorifie god , whose workmanship they are , created in christ jesus thereunto , that having their fruit unto holiness , they may have the end eternal life . iii. their ability to do good works is not at all of themselves , but wholly from the spirit of christ : and that they may be enabled thereunto , besides the graces they have already received , there is required an actual influence of the same holy spirit to work in them to will and to do , of his good pleasure ; yet are they not hereupon to grow negligent , as if they were not bound to perform any duty , unless upon a special motion of the spirit , but they ought to be diligent in stirring up the grace of god that is in them . iv. they who in their obedience attain to the greatest height which is possible in this life , are so far from being able to supererogate , and to do more then god requires , as that they fall short of much , which in duty they are bound to do . v. we cannnot by our best works merit pardon of sin , or eternal life at the hand of god , by reason of the great disproportion that is between them , and the glory to come ; and the infinite distance that is between us , and god , whom by them we can neither profit , nor ●●tisfie for the debt of our former sins ; but when we have done all we can , we have done but our duty , and are unprofitable servants : and because as they are good , they proceed from his spirit , and as they are wrought by us , they are defiled and mixed with so much weakness and imperfection , that they cannot endure the severity of gods judgement . vi . yet notwithstanding , the persons of believers being accepted through christ , their good works also are accepted in him , not as though they were in this life wholly unblameable and unreproveable in gods sight , but that he looking upon them in his son is pleased to accept and reward that which is sincere , although accompanied with many weaknesses and imperfections . vii . works done by unregenerate men , although for the matter of them they may be things which god commands , and of good use both to themselves and to others : yet because they proceed not from a heart purified by faith , nor are done in a right maner , according to the word ; not to a right end , the glory of god ; they are therefore sinful , and cannot please god , nor make a man meet to receive grace from god ; and yet their neglect of them is more sinful , and displeasing unto god . chap. xvii . of the perseverance of the saints . they whom god hath accepted in his beloved , effectually called and sanctified by his spirit , can neither totally nor finally fall away from the state of grace , but shall certainly persevere therein to the end , and be eternally saved . ii. this perseverance of the saints depends not upon their own free-will , but upon the immutability of the decree of election , from the free and unchangeable love of god the father , upon the efficacy of the merit and intercession of jesus christ , and union with him , the oath of god , the abiding of his spirit , and of the seed of god within them , and the nature of the covenant of grace , from all which ariseth also the certainty and infallibility thereof . iii. and though they may through the temptation of satan , and of the world , the prevalency of corruption remaining in them , and the neglect of the means of their preservation , fall into grievous sins , and for a time continue therein , whereby they incur gods displeasure , and grieve his holy spirit , come to have their graces and comforts impaired , have their hearts hardned , and their consciences wounded , hurt and scandalize others , and bring temporal judgements upon themselves ; yet they are and shall be kept by the power of god through faith unto salvation . chap. xviii . of the assurance of grace and salvation . although temporary believers , and other unregenerate men may vainly deceive themselves with false hopes , and carnal presumptions of being in the favor of god , and state of salvation , which hope of theirs shall perish ; yet such as truly believe in the lord jesus , and love him in sincerity , endeavoring to walk in all good conscience before him , may in this life be certainly assured that they are in the state of grace , and may rejoyce in the hope of the glory of god , which hope shall never make them ashamed . ii. this certainty is not a bare conjectural and probable perswasion , grounded upon a fallible hope , but and infallible assurance of faith , founded on the blood and righteousness of christ , revealed in the gospel , and also upon the inward evidence of those graces unto which promises are made , and on the immediate witness of the spirit , testifying our adoption , and as a fruit thereof , leaving the heart more humbl● and holy . iii. this infallible assurance doth not so belong to the essence of faith , but that a true believer may wait long , and conflict with many difficulties before he be partaker of it ; yet being inabled by the spirit to know the things which are freely given him of god , he may without extraordinary revelation in the right use of ordinary means attain thereunto : and therefore it is the duty of every one to give all diligence to make his calling and election sure , that thereby his heart may be inlarged in peace and joy in the holy ghost , in love and thankfulness to god , and in strength and chearfulness in the duties of obedience , the proper fruits of this assurance ; so far is it from inclining men to loosness . iv. true believers may have the assurance of their salvation divers ways shaken , diminished and intermitted , as by negligence in preserving of it , by falling into some special sin , which woundeth the conscience , and grieveth the spirit , by some sudden or vehement temptation , by gods withdrawing the light of his countenance , suffering even such as fear him to walk in darkness , and to have no light ; yet are they neither utterly destitute of that seed of god , and life of faith , that love of christ and the brethren , that sincerity of heart and conscience of duty , out of which by the operation of the spirit , this assurance may in due time be revived , and by the which in the mean time they are supported from utter despair . chap. xix . of the law of god . god gave to adam a law of universal obedience written in his heart , and a particular precept of not eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil , as a covenant of works , by which he bound him and all his posterity to personal , entire , exact and perpetual obedience , promised life upon the fulfilling , and threatned death upon the breach of it , and indued him with power and ability to keep it . ii. this law so written in the heart , continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness after the fall of man , and was delivered by god upon mount sinai in ten commandments , and written in two tables , the four first commandments containing our duty towards god , and the other six our duty to man . iii. beside this law commonly called moral , god was pleased to give to the people of israel ceremonial laws , containing several typical ordinances , partly of worship , prefiguring christ , his graces , actions , sufferings and benefits , and partly holding forth divers instructions of moral duties : all which ceremonial laws being appointed onely to the time of reformation , are by jesus christ the true messiah and onely law-giver , who was furnished with power from the father for that end , abrogated and taken away . iv. to them also he gave sundry judicial laws , which expired together with the state of that people , not obliging any now by vertue of that institution , their general equity onely being still of moral use . v. the moral law doth for ever binde all , as well justified persons as others , to the obedience thereof ▪ and that not onely in regard of the matter contained in it , but also in respect of the authority of god the creator , who gave it ▪ neither doth christ in the gospel any way dissolve , but much strengthen this obligation . vi . although true believers be not under the law , as a covenant of works , to be thereby justified or condemned ; yet it is of great use to them as well as to others , in that , as a rule of life , informing them of the will of god , and their duty , it directs and bindes them to walk accordingly , discovering also the sinful pollutions of their nature , hearts and lives , so as examining themselves thereby , they may come to further conviction of humiliation for , and hatred against sin , together with a clearer sight of the need they have of christ , and the perfection of his obedience . it is likewise of use to the regenerate , to restrain their corruptions , in that it forbids sin , and the threatnings of it serve to shew what even their sins deserve , and what afflictions in this life they may expect for them , although freed from the curse thereof threatned in the law . the promises of it in like maner shew them gods approbation of obedience , and what blessings they may expect upon the performance thereof , although not as due to them by the law , as a covenant of works ; so as a mans doing good , and refraining from evil , because the law incourageth to the one , and deterreth from the other , is no evidence of his being under the law , and not under grace . vii . neither are the forementioned uses of the law contrary to the grace of the gospel , but do sweetly comply with it , the spirit of christ subduing and inabling the will of man to do that freely and chearfully , which the will of god revealed in the law required to be done . chap. xx . of the gospel , and of the extent of the grace thereof . the covenant of works being broken by sin , and made unprofitable unto life , god was pleased to give unto the elect the promise of christ , the seed of the woman , as the means of calling them , and begetting in them faith and repentance : in this promise , the gospel , as to the substance of it , was revealed , and was therein effectual for the conversion and salvation of sinners . ii. this promise of christ , and salvation by him , is revealed onely in and by the word of god , neither do the works of creation or providence , with the light of nature , make discovery of christ , or of grace by him , so much as in a general or obscure way ; much less that men destitute of the revelation of him by the promise or gospel , should be inabled thereby to attain saving faith or repentance . iii. the revelation of the gospel unto sinners made in divers times , and by sundry parts , with the addition of promises and precepts for the obedience required therein , as to the nations and persons to whom it is granted , is meerly of the soveraign will and good pleasure of god , not being annexed by vertue of any promise to the due improvement of mens natural abilities , by vertue of common light received without it , which none ever did make , or can so do : and therefore in all ages the preaching of the gospel hath been granted unto persons and nations , as to the extent or straitning of it , in great variety , according to the counsel of the will of god . iv. although the gospel be the onely outward means of revealing christ and saving grace , and is , as such , abundantly sufficient thereunto ; yet that men who are dead in trespasses , may be born again , quickned or regenerated , there is moreover necessary an effectual , irresistible work of the holy ghost upon the whole soul , for the producing in them a new spiritual life , without which no other means are sufficient for their conversion unto god . chap. xxi . of christian liberty , and liberty of conscience . the liberty which christ hath purchased for believers under the gospel , consists in their freedom from the guilt of sin , the condemning wrath of god , the rigor and curse of the law , and in their being delivered from this present evil world , bondage to satan , and dominion of sin , from the evil of afflictions , the fear and sting of death , the victory of the grave , and everlasting damnation ; as also in their free access to god , and their yielding obedience unto him , not out of slavish fear , but a childe-like love and willing minde : all which were common also to believers under the law , for the substance of them ; but under the new testament the liberty of christians : is further inlarged in their freedom from the yoak of the ceremonial law , the whole legal administration of the covenant of grace , to which the jewish church was subjected , and in greater boldness of access to the throne of grace , and in fuller communications of the free spirit of god , then believers under the law did ordinarily partake of . ii. god alone is lord of the conscience , and hath left it free from the doctrines and commandments of men , which are in any thing contrary to his word , or not contained in it ; so that to believe such doctrines , or to obey such commands out of conscience , is to betray true liberty of conscience ; and the requiring of an implicit faith , and an absolute and blinde obedience , is to destroy liberty of conscience , and reason also . iii. they who upon pretence of christian liberty do practice any sin , or cherish any lust , as they do thereby pervert the main designe of the grace of the gospel to their own destruction ; so they wholly destroy the end of christian liberty , which is , that being delivered out of the hands of our enemies , we might serve the lord without fear , in holiness and righteousness before him all the days of our life . chap. xxii . of religious worship , and the sabbath-day . the light of nature sheweth that there is a god , who hath lordship and soveraignty over all , is just , good , and doth good unto all , and is therefore to be feared , loved , praised , called upon , trusted in , and served with all the heart , and all the soul , and with all the might : but the acceptable way of worshipping the true god is instituted by himself , and so limited by his own revealed will , that he may not be worshipped according to the imaginations and devices of men , or the suggestions of satan , under any visible representations , or any other way not prescribed in the holy scripture . ii. religious worship is to be given to god the father , son , and holy ghost , and to him alone ; not to angels , saints , or any other creatures , and since the fall , not without a mediator , nor in the mediation of any other but of christ alone . iii. prayer with thanksgiving , being one special part of natural worship , is by god required of all men , but that it may be accepted , it is to be made in the name of the son by the help of his spirit , according to his will , with understanding , reverence , humility , fervency , faith , love , and perseverance , and when with others , in a known tongue . iv. prayer is to be made for things lawful , and for all sorts of men living , or that shall live hereafter , but not for the dead , nor for those of whom it may be known that they have sinned the sin unto death . v. the reading of the scriptures , preaching , and hearing the word of god , singing of psalms , as also the administration of baptism and the lords supper , are all parts of religious worship of god , to be performed in obedience unto god with understanding , faith , reverence , and godly fear . solemn humiliations , with fastings and thanksgiving upon special occasions , are in their several times and seasons to be used in a holy and religious maner . vi . neither prayer , nor any other part of religious worship , is now under the gospel either tyed unto , or made more acceptable by any place , in which it is performed , or towards which it is directed ; but god is to be worshipped every where in spirit and in truth , as in private families dayly , and in secret each one by himself , so more solemnly in the publique assemblies , which are not carelesly nor wilfully to be neglected , or forsaken , when god by his word of providence calleth thereunto . vii . as it is of the law of nature , that in general a proportion of time by gods appointment be set apart for the worship of god ; so by his word in a positive , moral , and perpetual commandment , binding all men in all ages , he hath particularly appointed one day in seven for a sabbath to be kept holy unto him , which from the beginning of the world to the resurrection of christ , was the last day of the week , and from the resurrection of christ was changed into the first day of the week , which in scripture is called the lords day , and is to be continued to the end of the world as the christian sabbath , the observation of the last day of the week being abolished . viii . this sabbath is then kept holy unto the lord , when men after a due preparing of their hearts , and ordering their common affairs beforehand , do not onely observe an holy rest all the day from their own works , words , and thoughts about their worldly imployments and recreations , but also are taken up the whole time in the publique and private exercises of his worship , and in the duties of necessity and mercy . chap. xxiii . of lawful oaths and vows . a lawful oath is a part of religious worship , wherein the person swearing in truth , righteousness and judgement , solemnly calleth god to witness what he asserteth or promiseth , and to judge him according to the truth or falshood of what he sweareth . ii. the name of god onely is that by which men ought to swear , and therein it is to be used with all holy fear and reverence : therefore to swear vainly , or rashly , by that glorious or dreadful name , or to swear at all by any other thing , is sinful , and to be abhorred ; yet as in matters of weight and moment an oath is warranted by the word of god under the new testament , as well as under the old ; so a lawful oath , being imposed by lawful authority in such matters , ought to be taken . iii. whosoever taketh an oath warranted by the word of god , ought duly to consider the weightiness of so solemn an act , and therein to avouch nothing but what he is fully perswaded is the truth : neither may any man binde himself by oath to any thing , but what is good and just , and what he believeth so to be , and what he is able and resolved to perform . yet it is a sin to refuse an oath touching any thing that is good and just , being lawfully imposed by authority . iv. an oath is to be taken in the plain and common sense of the words , without equivocation or mental reservation : it cannot oblige to sin , but in any thing not sinful being taken it bindes to performance , although to a mans own hurt ; nor is it to be violated , although made to hereticks or infidels . v. a vow , which is not to be made to any creature , but god alone , is of the like nature with a promissory oath , and ought to be made with the like religious care , and to be performed with the like faithfulness . vi . popish monasticall vows of perpetual single life , professed poverty , and regular obedience , are so far from being degrees of higher perfection , that they are superstitious and sinful snares , in which no christian may intangle himself . chap. xxiv . of the civil magistrate . god the supreme lord and king of all the world , hath ordained civil magistrates to be under him , over the people for his own glory and the publique good ; and to this end hath armed them with the power of the sword , for the defence and incouragement of them that do good , and for the punishment of evil doers . ii. it is lawful for christians to accept and execute the office of a magistrate , when called thereunto : in the management whereof , as they ought especially to maintain justice and peace , according to the wholsome laws of each commonwealth ; so for that end they may lawfully now under the new testament wage war upon just and necessary occasion . iii. although the magistrate is bound to incourage , promote , and protect the professors and profession of the gospel , and to manage and order civil administrations in a due subserviency to the interest of christ in the world , and to that end to take care that men of corrupt mindes and conversations do not licentiously publish and divulge blasphemies and errors , in their own nature , subverting the faith , and inevitably destroying the souls of them that receive them : yet in such differences about the doctrines of the gospel , or ways of the worship of god , as may befal men exercising a good conscience , manifesting it in their conversation , and holding the foundation , not disturbing others in their ways or worship that differ from them ; there is no warrant for the magistrate under the gospel to abridge them of their liberty . iv. it is the duty of people to pray for magistrates , to honor their persons , to pay them tribute and other dues , to obey their lawful commands , and to be subject to their authority for conscience sake . infidelity , or difference in religion , doth not make void the magistrates just and legal authority , nor free the people from their obedience to him : from which ecclesiastical persons are not exempted , much less hath the pope any power or jurisdiction over them in their dominions , or over any of their people , and least of all to deprive them of their dominions or lives , if he shall judge them to be hereticks , or upon any other pretence whatsoever . chap. xxv . of marriage . marriage is to be between one man and one woman : neither is it lawful for any man to have more then one wife , nor for any woman to have more then one husband at the same time . ii. marriage was ordained for the mutual help of husband and wife , for the increase of mankinde with a legitimate issue , and of the church with an holy seed , and for preventing of uncleanness . iii. it is lawful for all sorts of people to marry , who are able with judgement to give their consent . yet it is the duty of christians to marry in the lord , and therefore such as profess the true reformed religion , should not marry with infidels , papists , or other idolaters : neither should such as are godly , be unequally yoaked by marrying with such as are wicked in their life , or maintain damnable heresie . iv. marriage ought not to be within the degrees of consanguinity or affinity forbidden in the word ; nor can such incestuous marriages ever be made lawful by any law of man , or consent of parties , so as those persons may live together as man and wife . chap. xxvi . of the church . the catholique or universal church , which is invisible , consists of the whole number of the elect , that have been , are , or shall be gathered into one under christ , the head thereof , and is the spouse , the body , the fulness of him that filleth all in all . ii. the whole body of men throughout the world , professing the faith of the gospel and obedience unto god by christ according unto it , not destroying their own profession by any errors everting the foundation , or unholiness of conversation , are , and may be called the visible catholique church of christ , although as such it is not intrusted with the administration of any ordinances , or have any officers to rule or govern in , or over the whole body . iii. the purest churches under heaven are subject both to mixture and error , and some have so degenerated as to become no churches of christ , but synagogues of satan : nevertheless christ always hath had , and ever shall have a visible kingdom in this world , to the end thereof , of such as believe in him , and make profession of his name . iv. there is no other head of the church but the lord jesus christ , nor can the pope of rome in any sense be head thereof ; but is that antichrist , that man of sin , and son of perdition , that exalteth himself in the church against christ , and all that is called god , whom the lord shall destroy with the brightness of his coming . v. as the lord in his care and love towards his church , hath in his infinite wise providence exercised it with great variety in all ages , for the good of them that love him , and his own glory : so according to his promise , we expect that in the latter days , antichrist being destroyed , the jews called , and the adversaries of the kingdom of his dear son broken , the churches of christ being inlarged and edified through a free and plentiful communication of light and grace , shall enjoy in this world a more quiet , peaceable and glorious condition then they have enjoyed . chap. xxvii . of the communion of saints . all saints that are united to jesus christ their head by his spirit and faith , although they are not made thereby one person with him , have fellowship in his graces , sufferings , death , resurrection and glory ▪ and being united to one another in love , they have communion in each others gifts and graces , and are obliged to the performance of such duties , publique and private , as do conduce to their mutual good , both in the inward and outward man . ii. all saints are bound to maintain an holy fellowship and communion in the worship of god , and in performing such other spiritual services as tend to their mutual edification ; as also in relieving each other in outward things , according to their several abilities and necessities : which communion , though especially to be exercised by them in the relations wherein they stand , whether in families or churches , yet as god offereth opportunity , is to be extended unto all those who in every place call upon the name of the lord jesus . chap. xxviii . of the sacraments . sacraments are holy signs and seals of the covenant of grace , immediately instituted by christ , to represent him and his benefits , and to confirm our interest in him , and solemnly to engage us to the service of god in christ , according to his word . ii. there is in every sacrament a spiritual relation , or sacramental union between the sign and the thing signified ; whence it comes to pass that the names and effects of the one are attributed to the other . iii. the grace which is exhibited in or by the sacraments rightly used , is not conferred by any power in them , neither doth the efficacy of a sacrament depend upon the piety or intention of him that doth administer it , but upon the work of the spirit , and the word of institution , which contains together with a precept authorizing the use thereof , a promise of benefit to worthy receivers . iv. there be onely two sacraments ordained by christ our lord in the gospel , that is to say , baptism and the lords supper ; neither of which may be dispensed by any but by a minister of the word lawfully called . v. the sacraments of the old testament , in regard of the spiritual things thereby signified and exhibited , were for substance the same with those of the new . chap. xxix . of baptism . baptism is a sacrament of the new testament , ordained by jesus christ to be unto the party baptized a sign and seal of the covenant of grace , of his ingraffing into christ , of regeneration , of remission of sins , and of his giving up unto god through jesus christ to walk in newness of life ; which ordinance is by christs own appointment to be continued in his church until the end of the world . ii. the outward element to be used in this ordinance , is water , wherewith the party is to be baptized in the name of the father , and of the son , and of the holy ghost , by a minister of the gospel lawfully called . iii. dipping of the person into the water is not necessary , but baptism is rightly administered by pouring or sprinkling water upon the person . iv. not onely those that do actually profess faith in , and obedience unto christ , but also the infants of one or both believing parents are to be baptized , and those onely . v. although it be a great sin to contemn or neglect this ordinance , yet grace and salvation are not so inseparably annexed unto it , as that no person can be regenerated or saved without it ; or that all that are baptized , are undoubtedly regenerated . vi . the efficacy of baptism is not tied to that moment of time wherein it is administered , yet notwithstanding , by the right use of this ordinance , the grace promised is not onely offered , but really exhibited and conferred by the holy ghost to such ( whether of age , or infants ) as that grace belongeth unto , according to the counsel of gods own will in his appointed time . vii . baptism is but once to be administered to any person . chap. xxx . of the lords supper . our lord jesus in the night wherein he was betrayed , instituted the sacrament of his body and blood , called the lords supper , to be observed in his churches unto the end of the world , for the perpetual remembrance , and shewing forth of the sacrifice of himself in his death , the sealing of all benefits thereof unto true believers , their spiritual nourishment , and growth in him , their further ingagement in and to all duties which they owe unto him , and to be a bond and pledge of their communion with him , and with each other . ii. in this sacrament christ is not offered up to his father , nor any real sacrifice made at all for remission of sin of the quick or dead , but onely a memorial of that one offering up of himself by himself upon the cross once for all , and a spiritual oblation of all possible praise unto god for the same ; so that the popish sacrifice of the mass ( as they call it ) is most abominable , injurious to christs own onely sacrifice , the alone propitiation for all the sins of the elect. iii. the lord jesus hath in this ordinance appointed his ministers to pray and bless the elements of bread and wine , and thereby to set them apart from a common to an holy use , and to take and break the bread , to take the cup , and ( they communicating also themselves ) to give both to the communicants , but to none who are not then present in the congregation . iv. private masses , or receiving the sacrament by a priest , or any other alone , as likewise the denial of the cup to the people , worshiping the elements , the lifting them up , or carrying them about for adoration , and the reserving them for any pretended religious use , are all contrary to the nature of this sacrament , and to the institution of christ . v. the outward elements in this sacrament duely set apart to the uses ordained by christ , have such relation to him crucified , as that truly , yet sacramentally onely , they are sometimes called by the name of the things they represent , to wit , the body and blood of christ ; albeit in substance and nature they still remain truly and onely bread and wine as they were before . vi . that doctrine which maintains a change of the substance of bread and wine into the substance of christs body and blood ( commonly called transubstantiation ) by consecration of a priest , or by any other way , is repugnant not to scripture alone , but even to common sense and reason , overthroweth the nature of the sacrament , and hath been , and is the cause of manifold superstitions , yea of gross idolatries . vii . worthy receivers outwardly partaking of the visible elements in this sacrament , do then also inwardly by faith , really and indeed , yet not carnally and corporally , but spiritually , receive and feed upon christ crucified , and all benefits of his death ; the body and blood of christ being then not corporally or carnally in , with , or under the bread or wine ; yet as really , but spiritually present to the faith of believers in that ordinance , as the elements themselves are to their outward senses . viii . all ignorant and ungodly persons , as they are unfit to enjoy communion with christ , so are they unworthy of the lords table , and cannot without great sin against him , whilest they remain such , partake of these holy mysteries , or be admitted thereunto ; yea whosoever shall receive unworthily , are guilty of the body and blood of the lord , eating and drinking judgement to themselves . chap. xxxi . of the state of man after death , and of the resurrection of the dead . the bodies of men after death return to dust , and see corruption , but their souls ( which neither die nor sleep ) having an immortal subsistence , immediately return to god who gave them , the souls of the righteous being then made perfect in holiness , are received into the highest heavens , where they behold the face of god in light and glory , waiting for the full redemption of their bodies : and the souls of the wicked are cast into hell , where they remain in torment and utter darkness , reserved to the judgement of the great day : besides these two places for souls separated from their bodies , the scripture acknowledgeth none . ii. at the last day such as are found alive shall not die , but be changed , and all the dead shall be raised up with the self-same bodies , and none other , although with different qualities , which shall be united again to their souls for ever . iii. the bodies of the unjust shall by the power of christ be raised to dishonor ; the bodies of the just by his spirit unto honor , and be made conformable to his own glorious body . chap. xxxii . of the last judgement . god hath appointed a day wherein he will judge the world in righteousness by jesus christ , to whom all power and judgement is given of the father ; in which day not onely the apostate angels shall be judged , but likewise all persons that have lived upon earth , shall appear before the tribunal of christ , to give an account of their thoughts , words and deeds , and to receive according to what they have done in the body , whether good or evil . ii. the end of gods appointing this day , is for the manifestation of the glory of his mercy in the eternal salvation of the elect , and of his justice in the damnation of the reprobate , who are wicked and disobedient : for then shall the righteous go into everlasting life , and receive that fulness of joy and glory , with everlasting reward in the presence of the lord ; but the wicked who know not god , and obey not the gospel of jesus christ , shall be cast into eternal torments , and be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the lord , and from the glory of his power . iii. as christ would have us to be certainly perswaded that there shall be a judgement , both to deter all men from sin , and for the greater consolation of the godly in their adversity ; so will he have that day unknown to men , that they may shake off all carnal security , and be always watchful , because they know not at what hour the lord will come , and may be ever prepared to say , come lord jesus , come quickly . amen . books sold by john allen at the sun rising in pauls church-yard , viz. mr. caryl's fifth volume on the book of job , in quarto . mr. caryl's seventh volume on the book of job , in quarto . beza novum testamentum , in folio . mr. allens scripture chronology , in quarto . dr. preston's riches of mercy , in quarto . buxtorfius's lexicon , the best sort , in large octavo . mr. baxter's call to the unconverted . mr. cotton on the covenant , intended suddenly for the press . mr. lukin's practice of godliness . mr. burgess of original sin . pareus on the revelation , in folio . mr. gataker against judicial astrology , wherein he proves it to be the way and practice of heathens , and ought not to be so much as named by them that profess the name of christ . esay 47.12 , 13. jer. 10.2 . of the institution of churches , and the order appointed in them by jesus christ . i. by the appointment of the father all power for the calling , institution , order or government of the church , is invested in a supreme and soveraign maner in the lord jesus christ , as king and head thereof . ii. in the execution of this power wherewith he is so entrusted , the lord jesus calleth out of the world unto communion with himself , those that are given unto him by his father , that they may walk before him in all the ways of obedience , which he prescribeth to them in his word . iii. those thus called ( through the ministry of the word by his spirit ) he commandeth to walk together in particular societies or churches , for their mutual edification , and the due performance of that publique worship , which he requireth of them in this world . iv. to each of these churches thus gathered , according unto his minde declared in his word , he hath given all that power and authority , which is any way needfull for their carrying on that order in worship and discipline , which he hath instituted for them to observe with commands and rules , for the due and right exerting and executing of that power . v. these particular churches thus appointed by the authority of christ , and intrusted with power from him for the ends before expressed , are each of them as unto those ends , the seat of that power which he is pleased to communicate to his saints or subjects in this world , so that as such they receive it immediately from himself . vi . besides these particular churches , there is not instituted by christ any church more extensive or catholique entrusted with power for the administration of his ordinances , or the execution of any authority in his name . vii . a particular church gathered and compleated according to the minde of christ , consists of officers and members : the lord christ having given to his called ones ( united according to his appointment in church-order ) liberty and power to choose persons fitted by the holy ghost for that purpose , to be over them and to minister to them in the lord . vii . the members of these churches are saints by calling , visibly manifesting and evidencing ( in and by their profession and walking ) their obedience unto that call of christ , who being further known to each other by their confession of the faith wrought in them by the power of god , declared by themselves or otherwise manifested , do willingly consent , to walk together according to the appointment of christ , giving up themselves to the lord , and to one another by the will of god in professed subjection to the ordinances of the gospel . ix . the officers appointed by christ to be chosen and set apart by the church so called , and gathered for the peculiar administration of ordinances , and execution of power or duty which he intrusts them with , or calls them to , to be continued to the end of the world , are pastors , teachers , elders , and deacons . x. churches thus gathered and assembling for the worship of god , are thereby visible and publique , and their assemblies ( in what place soever they are , according as they have liberty or opportunity ) are therefore church or publique assemblies . xi . the way appointed by christ for the calling of any person , fitted and gifted by the holy ghost , unto the office of pastor , teacher or elder in a church , is , that he be chosen thereunto by the common suffrage of the church it self , and solemnly set apart by fasting and prayer , with imposition of hands of the eldership of that church , if there be any before constituted therein : and of a deacon , that he be chosen by the like suffrage , and set apart by prayer , and the like imposition of hands . xii . the essence of this call of a pastor , teacher or elder unto office , consists in the election of the church , together with his acceptation of it , and separation by fasting and prayer : and those who are so chosen , though not set apart by imposition of hands , are rightly constituted ministers of jesus christ , in whose name and authority they exercise the ministery to them so committed . the calling of deacons consisteth in the like election and acceptation , with separation by prayer . xiii . although it be incumbent on the pastors and teachers of the churches to be instant in preaching the word , by way of office ; yet the work of preaching the word is not so peculiarly confined to them , but that others also gifted and fitted by the holy ghost for it , and approved ( being by lawful ways and means in the providence of god called thereunto ) may publiquely , ordinarily and constantly perform it ; so that they give themselves up thereunto . xiv . however , they who are ingaged in the work of publique preaching , and enjoy the publique maintenance upon that account , are not thereby obliged to dispense the seals to any other then such as ( being saints by calling , and gathered according to the order of the gospel ) they stand related to , as pastors or teachers ; yet ought they not to neglect others living within their parochial bounds , but besides their constant publique preaching to them , they ought to enquire after their profiting by the word , instructing them in , and pressing upon them ( whether young or old ) the great doctrines of the gospel , even personally and particularly , so far as their strength and time will admit . xv . ordination alone without the election or precedent consent of the church , by those who formerly have been ordained by vertue of that power they have received by their ordination , doth not constitute any person a church officer , or communicate office power unto him . xvi . a church furnished with officers ( according to the minde of christ ) hath full power to administer all his ordinances ; and where there is want of any one or more officers required , that officer , or those which are in the church , may administer all the ordinances proper to their particular duty and offices , but where there are no teaching officers , none may administer the seals , nor can the church authorize any so to do . xvii . in the carrying on of church-administrations , no person ought to be added to the church , but by the consent of the church it self ; that so love ( without dissimulation ) may be preserved between all the members thereof . xviii . whereas the lord jesus christ hath appointed and instituted as a means of edification , that those who walk not according to the rules and laws appointed by him ( in respect of faith and life , so that just offence doth arise to the church thereby ) be censured in his name and authority : every church hath power in it self to exercise and execute all those censures appointed by him in the way and order prescribed in the gospel . xix . the censures so appointed by christ , are admonition and excommunication : and whereas some offences are or may be known onely to some , it is appointed by christ , that those to whom they are so known , do first admonish the offender in private : in publique offences where any sin , before all ; or in case of non-amendment upon private admonition , the offence being related to the church , and the offender not manifesting his repentance , he is to be duely admonished in the name of christ by the whole church , by the ministery of the elders of the church ; and if this censure prevail not for his repentance , then he is to be cast out by excommunication with the consent of the church . xx . as all bel●evers are bound to joyn themselves to particular church● , when and where they have opportunity so to do , so non● are to be admitted unto the priviledges of the churches who do not submit themselves to the rule of christ in the censures of the government of them . xxi . this being the way prescribed by christ in case of offence , no church-members upon any offences taken by them , having performed their duty required of them in this matter , ought to disturb any church-order , or absent themselv●s from the publique assemblies , or the administration of any ordinances upon that pretence , but to wait upon christ in the further proceeding of the church . xxii . the power of censures being seated by christ in a particular church , is to be exercised onely towards particular members of each church respectively as such ; and there is no power given by him unto any synods or ecclesiastical assemblies to excommunicate , or by their publique edicts to threaten excommunication , or other church-censures against churches , magistrates , or their people upon any account , no man being obnoxious to that censure , but upon his personal miscarriage , as a member of a particular church . xxiii . although the church is a society of men , assembling for the celebration of the ordinances according to the appointment of christ , yet every society assembling for that end or purpose , upon the account of cohab●●ation within any civil precincts and bounds , is not thereby constituted a church , seeing there may be wanting among ●hem , what is essentially required thereunto ; and therefore a believer living with others in such a precinct , may joyn h●mself with any church for his edification . xxiv . for the avoiding of differences that may otherwise arise , for the greater solemnity in the celebration of the ordinances of christ , and the opening a way for the large usefulness of the gifts and graces of the holy ghost ; saints living in one city or town , or within such distances as that they may conveniently assemble for divine worship , ought rather to joyn in one church for their mutual strengthning and edification , then to set up many distinct societies . xxv . as all churches and all the members of them are bound to pray continually for the good or prosperity of all the churches of christ in all places , and upon all occasions to further it ; ( every one within the bounds of their places and callings , in the exercise of their gifts and graces ) so the churches themselves ( when plan●ed by the providence of god , so as they may have opportunity and advantage for it ) ought to hold communion amongst themselves for their peace , increase of love , and mutual edification . xxvi . in cases o● difficulties or differences , either in point of doctrine , o●●n administrations , wherein either the churches in general ●●e concerned or any one church in their peace , union an● edification , or any member or members of any church 〈◊〉 injured in or by any proceeding in cens●●es , not agre●able to truth and order : it is according to the minde o● christ , that many churches holding communion togeth●r , do by their messengers meet in a synod or councel , to consider and give their advice in , or about that matter in ●ifference to be reported to all the churches concerned . howbeit these synods so assembled are not entrusted with any church-power , properly so called , or with any jurisdiction over the churches themselves , to exercise any censures , either over any churches or persons , or to impose their determinations on the churches or officers . xxvii . besides these occasional synods or councels , there are not instituted by christ any stated synods in a fixed combination of churches , or their officers in lesser or greater assemblies ; nor are there any synods appointed by christ in a way of subordination to one another . xxviii . persons that are joyned in church-fellowship , ought not lightly or without just cause to withdraw themselves from the communion of the church whereunto they are so joyned : nevertheless , where any person cannot continue in any church without his sin , either for want of the administration of any ordinances instituted by christ , or by his being notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a52591e-100 1 cor. 1.10 . acts 15. rom. 15.6 , 8 , 9. v. 9. this perswasion cometh not of him that calleth you . gal. 5.8 . 1 pet. 1.5 . 1 pet. 3.15 . 8 cor. 2. gal. 1.6 . heb. 5.12 . eph. 4.12 . 14. heb. 3.6 . heb. 10.22 . june 20. 1648. aug. 1647 session ●86 . ordinance of march 14. 1645. considerations and cautions from sion coll. june 19. 1646. jus divinum minist. pub . by the provost of london , in the preface . puritanis . ang. by dr. aims near 50 years since , as the opinions of whitehead , gilbe , fox , dearing , greenham , cartwright , venner , fulk , whitaker , rainold , perkins , &c. a declaration of the faith and order owned and practised in the congregational churches in england; agreed upon and consented unto by their elders and messengers in their meeting at the savoy, octob. 12. 1658. congregational church in england and wales. savoy meeting (1658). this text is an enriched version of the tcp digital transcription a89790 of text r203024 in the english short title catalog (thomason e968_4). textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. the text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with morphadorner. the annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. this text has not been fully proofread approx. 139 kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from 22 1-bit group-iv tiff page images. earlyprint project evanston,il, notre dame, in, st. louis, mo 2017 a89790 wing n1488 thomason e968_4 estc r203024 99863127 99863127 115309 this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons 0 1.0 universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase 1, no. a89790) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set 115309) images scanned from microfilm: (thomason tracts ; 144:e968[4]) a declaration of the faith and order owned and practised in the congregational churches in england; agreed upon and consented unto by their elders and messengers in their meeting at the savoy, octob. 12. 1658. congregational church in england and wales. savoy meeting (1658). owen, john, 1616-1683. nye, philip, 1596?-1672. [16], 27, [1] p. printed for d.l. and are to be sold in paul's church-yard, fleet-street, and westminster-hall, london : 1659. drawn up for the assembly of ministers of congregational churches by a committee headed by philip nye, to whom the work is often attributed. the preface was written by john owen. annotations on thomason copy: "philip nie & his confederat crew of === independants" is inserted with a caret between 'by' and 'their' on the titlepage. "but printed not before [the] february after feb. 16. 1658"; the 9 in the imprint date has been crossed out and replaced with an "8". reproduction of the original in the british library. eng congregational churches -creeds -early works to 1800. congregational churches -doctrines -early works to 1800. congregational churches -england -history -early works to 1800. a89790 r203024 (thomason e968_4). civilwar no a declaration of the faith and order owned and practised in the congregational churches in england;: agreed upon and consented unto by thei congregational church in england and wales. savoy meeting 1659 25135 62 5 0 0 0 0 27 c the rate of 27 defects per 10,000 words puts this text in the c category of texts with between 10 and 35 defects per 10,000 words. 2007-06 tcp assigned for keying and markup 2007-07 apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images 2007-09 emma (leeson) huber sampled and proofread 2007-09 emma (leeson) huber text and markup reviewed and edited 2008-02 pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a declaration of the faith and order owned and practised in the congregational churches in england ; agreed upon and consented unto by their elders and messengers in their meeting at the savoy , octob. 12. 1658. london printed for d. l. and are to be sold in paul's church-yard , fleet-street , and westminster-hall , 1659. a preface . confession of the faith that is in us , when justly called for , is so indispensable a due all owe to the glery of the soveraign god , that it is ranked among the duties of the first commandment , such as prayer is ; and therefore by paul yoaked with faith it self , as necessary to salvation : with the heart man believeth unto righteousness , and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation . our lord christ himself , when he was accused of his doctrine , considered simply as a matter of fact by preaching ▪ refused to answer ; because , as such , it lay upon evidence , & matter of testimony of others ; unto whom therefore he refers himself : but when both the high-priest and pilate expostulate his faith , and what he held himself to be ; he without any demur at all , chearfully makes declarat on , that he was the son of god ; so to the high-priest : and that he was a king , and born to be a king ; thus to pilate . though upon the uttering of it his life lay at the stake : which holy profession of his is celebrated for our example , 1 tim. 6. 13. confessions , when made by a company of professors of christianity joyntly meeting to that end , the most genuine and natural use of such confessions is , that under the same form of words , they express the substance of the same common salvation or unity of their faith ; whereby speaking the same things , they shew themselves perfectly joyned in the same mind , and in the same judgment , 1 cor. 1. 10. and accordingly such a transaction is to be looked upon but as a meet or fit medium or means whereby to express that their common faith and salvation ▪ and no way to be made use of as an imposition upon any : what ever is of force or constraint in matters of this nature , causeth them to degenerate from the name and nature of confessions , and turns them from being confessions of faith , into exactions and impositions of faith . and such common confessions of the orthodox faith , made in simplicity of heart by any such body of christians , with concord among themselves , ought to be entertained by all others that love the truth as it is in jesus , with an answerable rejoycing : for if the unanimous opinions and assertions but in some few points of religion , and that when by two churches , namely , that of jerusalem , and the messengers of antioch met , assisted by some of the apostles , were by the believers of those times received with so much joy , ( as it is said , they rejoyced for the consolation ) much more this is to be done , when the whole substance of faith , and form of wholesome words shall be declared by the messengers of a multitude of churches , though wanting those advantages of counsel and authority of the apostles which that assembly had . which acceptation is then more specially due , when these shall ( to choose ) utter and declare their faith in the same substance for matter , yea , words , for the most part , that other chur●hes and assembli●s , reputed the most orthodox , have done before them : for upon such a correspondency , all may see that actually accomplished , which the apostle did but exhort unto , and pray for , in those two more eminent churches of the corinthians and the romans , ( and so in them for all the christians of his time ) that both jew and gentile , that is , men of different perswasions ( as they were ) might glorifie god with one mind and with one mouth . and truly , the very turning of the gentiles to the owning of the same faith , in the substance of it with the christian jew ( though differing in greater points then we do from our brethren ) is presently after dignified by the apostle with this style , that it is the confession of jesus christ himself ; not as the object onely , but as the author and maker thereof : i will confess to thee ( saith christ to god ) among the gentiles . so that in all such accords , christ is the great and first confessor ; and we , and all our faith uttered 〈◊〉 us , are but the epistles , ( as paul ) and confessions ( as isaiah there ) of their lord and ours ; he , but expressing what is written in his heart , through their hearts and mouthes , to the glory of god the father : and shall not we all rejoyce herein , when as christ himself is said to do it upon this occasion : as it there also follows , i will sing unto thy name . further as the soundness and wholesomness of the matter gives the vigor and life to such confessions so the inward freeness , willingness , and readiness of the spirits of the confessors do contribute the beauty and loveliness thereunto : as it is in prayer to god , so in confessions made to men . if two or three met ▪ do agree , it renders both , 〈…〉 the more acceptable . the spirit of christ is in himself too free , great and generous a spirit to suffer himself to be used by any humane arm , to whip men into belief he drive● not but gently leads into all truth , and perswades men to dwell in the tents of l●k● precious faith ; which would lose of its preciousness and value if that sparkle of freeness sh●ne not in it : the character of his people , i● to be a willing people in the day of his power , ( not mans ) in the beauties of holiness which are the assemblings of the saints : one gl●●y of which assemblings in that fi●st ch●rch i● said to have been , they met with one accord ; which is there in the psalm prophesied of , in the instance of that first church , for all other that should succeed . and as this great spirit is in himself free ▪ when , and how for , and in whom to work , so where and when he doth work , he carrieth it with the same freedom , and is said to be a free spirit , as he both is , and works in us : and where this spirit of the lord is , there is liberty . now , as to this confession of ours , besides , that a conspicuous conjunction of the particulars mentioned , hath appeared therein : there are also four remarkable attendants thereon , which added , might perhaps in the eyes of sober and indifferent spirits , give the whole of this transaction a room and rank amongst other many good and memorable things of this age ; at least all set together , do cast as clear a gleam and manifestation of god's power and presence , as hath appeared in any such kind of confessions , made by so numerous a company these later years . the first , is the temper , ( or distemper rather ) of the times , during which , these churches have been gathering , and which they have run through . all do ( out of a general sense ) complain that the times have been perillous , or difficult times ( as the apostle fore told ) ; and that in respect to danger from seducing spirits , more perillous then the hottest seasons of persecution . we have sa●led through an aestuation , fluxes and refluxes of great varieties of spirits , doctrines , opinions and occurrences , and especially in the matter of opinions , which have been accompanied in their several seasons , with powerful perswasions and temptations , to seduce those of our way . it is known , men have taken the freedom ( notwithstanding what authority hath interposed to the contrary ) to vent and vend ●heir own vain and accursed imaginations , contrary to the great and fixed truths of the gospel , insomuch , as take the whole round and circle of delusi●ns , the devil hath in this small time , ran ; it will be found , that every truth , of greater or lesser weight , hath by one or other hand , at one time or another , been questioned and called to the bar amongst us , yea , and impleaded , under the pretext ( which hath some degree of justice in it ) that all should not be bound up to the traditions of former times , nor take religion upon trust . whence it hath come to pass , that many of the soundest professors were put upon a new search and d squisition of such truths , as they had taken for granted , and yet had lived upon the comfort of : to the end they might be able to convince others , and est blish their own hearts against that darkness and unbelief , that is ready to close with error , or at least t● doubt of the truth , when error is speciousl● presented . and hereupon we do professedly account it one of the greatest advantages gained out of the temptations of these times , yea the honour of the saints and ministers of these nations , that after they had sweetly been exercised in , and had improved practical and experimental truths , this should be the r forther lot , to examine and discuss , and indeed , anew to learn over every doctrinal truth , both out of the scriptures , and also with a fresh taste thereof in their own hearts ; which is no other then what the apostle exhorts to , try all things , bold fast that which is good . conversion unto god at first , what is it else then a savory and aff●ct●onate application , and the bring●ng home to the heart with spiritual light and life , all truths that are necessary to salvation , together with other lesser truths ? all which we had afore conversion taken in but notionally from common education and tradition . now that after this first gust those who have bin thus converted should be put upon a new probation and search out of the scriptures , not onely of all principles explicitely ingredients to conversion ; ( unto which the apostle referreth the galatians when they had diverted from them ) but of all other superstructures as well as fundamentals ; and together therewith , anew to experiment the power and sweetness of all these in their own souls : what is this but tryed faith indeed ? and equivalent to a new conversion unto the truth ? an anchor that is proved to be sure and stedfast , that will certainly hold in all contrary storms . this was the eminent seal and commendation which those holy apostles that lived and wrote last ( peter , john , and jude in their epistles ) did set and give to the christians of the latter part of those primitive times . and besides , it is clear and evident by all the other epistles , from first to last , that it cost the apostles as much , and far more care and pains to preserve them they had converted , in the truth , then they had taken to turn them thereunto at first : and it is in it self as great a work and instance of the power of god , that keeps , yea , guards us through faith unto salvation . secondly , let this be added , ( or superadded rather ) to give full weight and measure , even to running over , that we have all along this season , held forth ( though quarrelled with for it by our brethren ) this great principle of these times , that amongst all christian states and churches , there ought to be vouchsafed a forbearance and mutual indulgence unto saints of all perswasions , that keep unto , and hold fast the necessary foundations of faith and holiness , in all other matters extrafundamental , whether of faith or order . this to have been our constant principle , we are not ashamed to confess to the whole christian world . wherein yet we desire we may be understood , not as if in the abstract we stood indifferent to falshood or truth , or were careless whether faith or error , in any truths but fundamental , did obtain or not , so we had our liberty in our petty and smaller differences ; or as if to make sure of that , we had cut out this wide cloake for it : no , we profess that the whole , and every particle of that faith delivered to the saints , ( the substance of which we have according to our light here professed ) is , as to the propagation and furtherance of it by all gospel-means , as precious to us as our lives ; or what can be supposed dear to us ; and in our sphere we have endeavored to promote them accordingly : but yet withall , we have and do contend , ( and if we had all the power which any , or all of our brethren of differing opinions have desired to have over us , or others , we should freely grant it unto them all ) we have and do contend for this , that in the concrete , the persons of all such gracious saints , they and their errors , as they are in them , when they are but such errors as do and may stand with communion with christ , though they should not repent of them , as not being convinced of them to the end of their days ; that those , with their errors ( that are purely spiritual , and intrench and overthrow not civil societies , ) as concrete with their persons , should for christs sake be born withall by all christians in the world ; and they notwithstanding be permitted to enjoy all ordinances and spiritual priviledges according to their light , as freely as any other of their brethren that pretend to the greatest orthodoxity ; as having as equal , and as fair a right in and unto christ , and all the holy things of christ , that any other can challenge to themselves . and this doth afford a full and invincible testimony on our behalf , in that whiles we have so earnestly contended for this just liberty of saints in all the churches of christ , we our selves have no need of it : that is , as to the matter of the profession of faith which we have maintained together with others : and of this , this subsequent confession of faith gives sufficient evidence . so as we have the confidence in christ , to utter in the words of those two great apostles , that we have stood fast in the liberty wherewith christ hath made us free ( in the behalf of others , rather then our selves ) and having been free , have not made use of our liberty for a cloak of error or maliciousness in our selves . and yet , loe , whereas from the beginning of the rearing of these churches , that of the apostle hath been ( by some ) prophecyed of us , and applyed to us , that whiles we promised ( unto others ) liberty , we our selves would become servants of corruption , and be brought in bondage to all sorts of fancies and imaginations ; yet the whole world may now see after the experience of many years ran-through ( and it is manifest by this confession ) that the great and gracious god hath not only kept us in that common unity of the faith and knowledge of the son of god , which the who●e community of saints have and shall in their generations come unto , but also in the same truths , both small and great , that are built thereupon , that any other of the best and more pure reformed churches in their best times ( which were their first times ) have arrived unto : this confession withall holding forth a professed opposition unto the common errors and heresies of these times . these two considerations have been taken from the seasons we have gone through . thirdly , let the space of time it self , or dayes , wherein from first to last the whole of this confession was framed and consented to by the whole of us , be duly considered by sober and ingenuous spirits : the whole of days in which we had meetings about it , ( set aside the two lords days and the first days meeting , in which we considered and debated what to pitch upon ) were but 11 dayes , part of which also was spent by some of us in prayer , others in consulting ; and in the end all agreeing . we mention this small circumstance but to this end , ( which still adds unto the former ) that it gives demonstration , not of our freeness and willingness onely , but of our readiness and preparedness unto so great a work ; which otherwise , and in other assemblies , hath ordinarily taken up long and great debates , as in such a variety of matters of such concernment , may well be supposed to fall out . and this is no other then what the apostle peter exhorts unto , be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason , or account of the hope that is in you . the apostle paul saith of the spiritual truths of the gospel , that god hath prepared them for those that love him . the inward and innate constitution of the new creature being in it self such as is suted to all those truths , as congenial thereunto : but although there be this mutual adaptness between these two , yet such is the mixture of ignorance , darkness and unbelief , carnal reason ▪ pre-occupation of judgment , interest of parties , wantonness in opinion , proud adhering to our own perswasions , and perverse oppositions and av●rsness to agree with others , and a multitude of such like distempers common to believing man : all which are not onely mixed with , but at times ( especially in such times as have passed over our heads ) are ready to overcloud our judgments , and to cause our eyes to be double , and sometimes prevail as well as lusts , and do byass our wills and affections : and such is their mixture , that although there may be existent an habitual preparedness in mens spirits , yet not always a present readiness to be found , specially not in such a various multitude of men , to make a solemn and deliberate profession of all truths , it being as great a work to find the spirits of the just ( perhaps the best of saints ) ready for every truth , as to be prepared to every good work . it is therefore to be looked at , as a great and special work of the holy ghost , that so numerous a company of ministers , and other principal brethren , should so readily , speedily , and joyntly give up themselves unto such a whole body of truths that are after godliness . this argues they had not their faith to seek ; but , as is said of ezra , that they were ready scribes , and ( as christ ) instructed unto the kingdom of heaven , being as the good housholders of so many families of christ , b●nging forth of their store and treasury new and old. it shews these truths had been familiar to them , and they acquainted with them , as with their daily food and provision , ( as christs allusion there insinuates ) : in a word , that so they had preached , and that so their people had beleived , as the apostle speaks upon one like particular occasion . and the apostle paul considers ( in cases of this nature ) the suddenness o●length of the time , either one way or the other ; whether it were in mens forsaking or learning of the truth . thus the suddenness in the galatians ca●e in leaving the truth ▪ he makes a wonder of it : i marvel that you are so soon ( that is , in so short a time ) removed from the true gospel unto another . again on the contrary , in the hebrews he aggravates their backwards ess , that when for the time you ought to be teachers , you had need that one teach you the very first principles of the oracles of god . the parallel contrary to both these having fallen our in this transaction , may have some ingredient and weight with ingenuous spirits in its kind , according to the proportion is put upon either of these forementioned in their adverse kind , and obtain the like special observation . this accord of ours hath fallen out without having held any correspondency together , or prepared consultation , by which we might come to be advised of one anothers mindes . we alledge not this as a matter of commendation in us ; no , we acknowledge it to have been a great neglect : and accordingly one of the first proposals for union amongst us was , that there might be a constant correspondence held among the churches for counsel and mutual edification , so for time to come to prevent the like omission . we confess that from the first , every , or at least the generality of our churches , have been in a manner like so many ships ( though holding forth the same general colours ) lancht singly , and sailing apart and alone in the vast ocean of these tumultuating times , and they exposed to every wind of doctrine , under no other conduct then the word and spirit , and their particular elders and principal brethren , without associations among our selves , or so much as holding out common lights to others , whereby to know where we were . but yet whilest we thus confess to our own shame this neglect , let all acknowledge , that god hath ordered it for his high and greater glory , in that his singular care and power should have so warcht over each of these , as that all should be found to have steered their course by the same chart , and to have been bound for one and the same port , and that upon this general search now made , that the same holy and blessed truths of all sorts , which are currant and warrantable amongst all the other churches of christ in the world , should be found to be our lading . the whole , and every of these things when put together , do cause us ( whatever men of prejudiced and opposite spirits may find out to slight them ) with a holy admiration , to say , that this is no other then the lords doing ; and which we with thansgiving do take from his hand as a speciall token upon us for good , and doth shew that god is faithfull and upright towards those that are planted in his house : and that as the faith was but once for all , and intentionally first delivered unto the saints ; so the saints , when not abiding scattered , but gathered under their respective pastors according to gods heart into an house , and churches unto the living god , such together are , as paul forespake it , the most steady and firm pillar and seat of truth that god hath anywhere appointed to himself on earth , where his truth is best conserved , and publiquely held forth ; there being in such assemblies weekly a rich dwelling of the word amongst them , that is , a daily open house kept by the means of those good housholders , their teachers and other instructers respectively appropriated to them , whom christ in the vertue of his ascension , continues to give as gifts to his people , himself dwelling amongst them ; to the end that by this , as the most sure standing permanent means , the saints might be perfected ▪ till we all ( even all the saints in present and future ages ) do come by this constant and daily ordinance of his unto the unity of the faith and knowledge of the son of god unto a perfect man , unto the measure of the stature of the fulnesse of christ ( which though growing on by parts and piecemeal ▪ will yet appear compleat , when that great and general assembly shall be gathered , then when this world is ended , and these dispensations have had their fulness and period ) and so that from henceforth ( such a provision being made for us ) we be no more children tossed too and fro , and carried about with every wind of doctrine . and finally , this doth give a fresh and recent demonstration , that the great apostle and high-priest of our profession is indeed ascended into heaven , and continues there with power and care , faithfull as a son over his own house , whose house are we , if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoycing of the hope firm unto the end : and shews that he will , as he hath promised , be with his own institutions to the end of the world . it is true , that many sad miscarriages , divisions , breaches , fallings off from holy ordinances of god , have along this time of tentation , ( especially in the beginning of it ) been found in some of our churches ; and no wonder , if what hath been said be fully considered : many reasons might further be given hereof , that would be a sufficient apology , without the help of a retortion upon other churches ( that promised themselves peace ) how that more destroying ruptures have befallen them , and that in a wider sphere and compasse ; which though it should not justifie us , yet may serve to stop others mouths . let rome glory of the peace in , and obedience of her children , against the reformed churches for their divisions that occurred ( especially in the first rearing of them ) whilest we all know the causes of their dull & stupid peace to have been carnal interests , worldly correspondencies , and coalitions , strengthened by gratifications of all sorts of men by that religion , the principles of blind devotion , traditional faith , ecclesiastical tyranny , by which she keeps her children in bondage to this day . we are also certain , that the very same prejudices that from hence they would cast upon the reformed ( if they were just ) do lye as f●lly against those pure churches raised up by the apostles themselves in those first t●mes : for as we have heard of their patience , sufferings , consolations , and the transcending gifts powred out , and graces shining in them , so we have heard complaints of their divisions too , of the forsakings of their assemblies , as the custom or manner of some was ( which later were in that respect felones de se , and needed no other delivering up to satan as their punishment , then what they executed upon themselves . ) we read of the shipwrack also of faith and a good conscience , and overthrowings of the faith of some ; and still but of some ▪ not all , nor the most : which is one piece of an apologie the apostle again and again inserts to future ages , and through mercy we have the same to make . and truly we take the confidence professedly to say , that these tentations common to the purest churches of saints separated from the mixture of the world , though they grieve us ( for who is offended , and we burn not ? ) yet they do not at all stumble us , as to the truth of our way , had they been many more : we say it again , these stumble us no more ( as to that point ) then it doth offend us against the power of religion it self , to have seen , and to see daily in particular persons called out and separated from the world by an effectual work of conversion , that they for a while do suffer under disquietments , vexations , turmoils , unsettlements of spirit , that they are tossed with tempests and horrid tentations , such as they had not in their former estate , whilst they walked according to the course of this world : for peter hath sufficiently instructed us whose businesse it is to raise such storms , even the devil's ; and also whose designe it is , that after they have suffered a while , thereby they shall be setled , perfected , stablished , that have so suffered , even the god of all grace . and look what course of dispensation god holds to saints personally , he doth the like to bodyes of saints in churches , and the devil the same for his part too : and that consolatory maxim of the apostle , god shall tread down satan under your feet shortly , which paul utteteth concerning the church of rome , shews how both god and satan have this very hand therein ; for he speaks that very thing in reference unto their divisions , as the coherence clearly manifests ; and so you have both designs exprest at once . yea , we are not a little induced to think , that the divisions , breaches , &c. of those p●imitive churches would not have been so frequent among the people themselves , and not the elders onely , had not the freedom , liberties and rights of the members ( the brethren , we mean ) been stated and exercised in those churches , the same which we maintain and contend for to be in ours . yea ( which perhaps may seem more strange to many ) had not those churches been constituted of members inlightned further then with notional and traditional knowledge , by a new and more powerfull light of the holy ghost , wherein they had been made partakers of the holy ghost , and the heavenly gift , and their hearts had tasted the good word of god , and the powers of the world to come ▪ and of such members at lowest , there had not fallen out those kindes of divisions among them . for experience hath shewn , that the common sort of meer doctrinal professors ( such as the most are now a days ) whose highest elevation is but freedom from moral scandal , joyned with devotion to christ through meer education , such as in many turks is found towards mahomet , that these finding and feeling themselves not much concerned in the active part of religion , so they may have the honour ( especially upon a reformation of a new refinement ) that themselves are approved members , admitted to the lords supper , and their children to the ordinance of baptism ; they regard not other matters ( as gallio did not ) but do easily and readily give up themselves unto their guides , being like dead fishes carried with the commonstream ; whereas those that have a further renewed light by a work of the holy ghost , whether saving or temporary , are upon the quite contrary grounds apt to be bufie about , and inquisitive into , what they are to receive and practise , or wherein their consciences are professedly concerned and involved : and thereupon they take the freedom to examine and try the spirits , whether of god or no : and from hence are more apt to dissatisfaction , and from thence to run into division , and many of such proving to be inlightned but with a temporary , not saving faith ( who have such a work of the spirit upon them , and profession in them , as will and doth approve it self to the judgment of saints , and ought to be so judged , until they be otherwise discovered ) who at long-run , prove hypocrites , through indulgence unto lusts , and then out of their lusts persist to hold up these divisions unto breach of , or departings from , churches , and the ordinances of god , and god is even with them for it , they waxing worse and worse , deceiving and being deceived ; and even many of those that are sincere , through a mixture of darkness and erroneousness in their judgments , are for a season apt out of conscience to be led away with the error of others , which lie in wait to deceive . insomuch as the apostle upon the example of those first times , fore-seeing also the like events in following generations upon the like causes , hath been bold to set this down as a ruled case , that likewise in other churches so constituted and de facto empriviledged as that of the church of corinth was ( which single church , in the sacred records about it , is the compleatest mirror of church-constitution , order , and government , and events thereupon ensuing , of any one church whatever that we have story of ) his maxim is , there must be also divisions amongst you ; he setly inserts an [ also ] in the case , as that which had been in his own observation , and that which would be {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} the fate of other churches like thereunto , so prophefieth he : and he speaks this as peremptorily , as he doth elsewhere in that other , we must through many tribulations enter into the kingdom of heaven : yea , and that all that will live godly in christ jesus , shall suffer persecution : there is a [ must ] upon both alike ; and we bless god , that we have run through both , and do say , and we say no more that as it was then , so it is now , in both respects . however , such hath been the powerful hand of god's providence in these , which have been the worst of our tryals , that out of an approved experience and observation of the issue , we are able to adde that other part of the apostles prediction , that therefore such rents must be , that they which are approved may be made manifest among you ; which holy issue god ( as having aimed at it therein ) doth frequently and certainly bring about in churches , as he doth bring upon them that other fate of division . let them therfore look untoit , that are the authors of such disturbances , as the apostle warneth , gal 5. 10. the experiment is this , that we have seen , and do daily see , that multitudes of holy and precious souls , and ( in the holy ghosts word ) approved saints , have been , and are the more rooted and grounded by means of these shakings , and do continue to cleave the faster to christ ▪ and the purity of hi● ordinances , and value them the more by this cost god hath put them to for the enjoying of them , who having been planted in the house of the lord , have flourished in the courts of our god , in these evil times , to new that the lord is upright . and this experimented event from out of such divisions , hath more confirmed us , and is a louder apologie for us , then all that our opposites are able from our breaches to alleadge to prejudice us . we will add a few words for conclusion , and give a more particular account of this our declaration . in drawing up this confession of faith , we have had before us the articles of religion , approved and passed by both houses of parliament , after advice had with an assembly of divines , called together by them for that purpose . to which confession , for the substance of it , we fully assent , as do our brethren of new-england , and the churches also of scotland , as each in their general synods have testified . a few things we have added for obviating some erroneous opinions , that have been more broadly and boldly here of late maintained by the asserters , then in former times ; and made other additions and alterations in method , here and there , and some clearer explanations , as we found occasion . we have endeavoured throughout , to hold to such truths in this our confession , as are more properly termed matters of faith ; and what is of church-order , we dispose in certain propositions by it self . to this course we are led by the example of the honorable houses of parliament , observing what was established , and what omitted by them in that confession the assembly presented to them . who thought it not convenient to have matters of discipline and church-government put into a confession of faith , especially such particulars thereof , as then were , and still are controverted and under dispute by men orthodox and sound in faith . the 30th cap therefore of that confession , as it was presented to them by the assembly , which is of church censures , their tlse , kinds , and in whom placed : as also cap. 31. of synods and councels , by whom to be called , of what force in their decrees and determinations . and the 4th paragr. of the 20th cap. which determines what opinions and practises disturb the peace of the church , and how such disturbers ought to be proceeded against by the censures of the church , and punished by the civil magistrate ▪ also a great part of the 24th cap. of marriage and divorce . these were such doubtful assertions , and so unsutable to a confession of faith , as the honorable houses in their great wisdom thought fit to lay them aside : there being nothing that tends more to heighten dissentions among brethren , then to determine and adopt the matter of their difference , under so high a title , as to be an article of our faith : so that there are two whole chapters , and some paragraphs in other chapters in their confession , that we have upon this account omitted ; and the rather do we give this notice , because that copy of the parl. followed by us , is in few mens hands ; the other as it came from the assembly , being approved of in scotland , was printed and hastened into the world , before the parl , had declared their resolutions about it ; which was not til june 20. 1648. and yet hath been , and continueth to be the copy ( ordinarily ) onely sold , printed , and reprinted for these 11 years . after the 19th cap. of the law , we have added a cap. of the gospel , it being a title that may not well be omitted in a confession of faith : in which chapter , what is dispersed , and by intimation in the assemblies confession , with some little addition , is here brought together , and more fully , under one head . that there are not scriptures annexed , as in some confessions ( though in divers others it 's otherwise ) we give the same account as did the reverend assembly in the same case : which was this ; the confession being large , and so framed , as to meet with the common errors , if the scriptures should have been alleadged with any clearness , and by shewing where the strength of the proof lieth , it would have required a volume . we say further , it being our utmost end in this ( as it is indeed of a confession ) humbly to give an account what we hold and assert in these matters ; that others , especially the churches of christ may judge of us accordingly : this we aimed at , and not so much to instruct others , or convince gain-sayers . these are the proper works of other institutions of christ , and are to be done in the strength of express scripture . a confession is an ordinance of another nature . what we have laid down and asserted about churches and their government , we humbly conceive to be the order which christ himself hath appointed to be observed , we have endeavored to follow scripture light ; and those also that went before us according to that rule , desirous of nearest uniformity with reforming-churches , as with our brethren in new-england , so with others , that differ from them and us . the models and platforms of this subject laid down by learned men , and practised by churches , are various : we do not judge it brotherly , or grateful , to insist upon comparisons , as some have done ; but this experience teacheth , that the variety , and possibly the disputes and emulations arising thence , have much strengthened , if not fixed , this unhappy perswasion in the mindes of some learned and good men , namely , that there is no setled order laid down in scripture ; but it 's left to the prudence of the christian magistrate , to compose or make choice of such a form as is most sutable and consistent with their civil-government . where this opinion is entertained in the perswasion of governors , there , churches asserting their powet and order to be jure divino , and the appointment of jesus christ , can have no better nor more honorable entertainment , then a toleration or permission . yet herein there is this remarkable advantage to all parties that differ , about what in government is of christ's appointment ; in that such magistrates have a far greater latitude in conscience , to tolerate and permit the several forms of each so bound up in their perswasion , then they have to submit unto what the magistrate shall impose : and thereupon the magistrate exercising an indulgency and forbearance , with protection and encouragement to the people of god , so differing from him , and amongst themselves : doth therein discharge as great a faithfulness to christ , and love to his people , as can any way be supposed and expected from any christian magistrate , of what perswasion soever he is . and where this clemency from governors is shewed to any sort of persons , or churches of christ , upon such a principle , it will in equity produce this just effect , that all that so differ from him , and amongst themselves , standing in equal and alike difference from the principle of such a magistrate , he is equally free to give a like liberty to them , one as well as the other . this faithfulness in our governours we do with thankfulness to god acknowledge , and to their everlasting honour , which appeared much in the late reformation . the hierarchie , common-prayer-book , and all other things grievous to god's people , being removed , they made choice of an assembly of learned men , to advise what government and order is meet to be established in the room of these things ; and because it was known there were different opinions ( as always hath been among godly men ) about forms of church-government , there was by the ordinance first sent forth to call an assembly , not onely a choice made of persons of several perswasions , to sit as members there , but liberty given , to a lesser number , if dissenting , to report their judgments and reasons , as well and as freely as the major part . hereupon the honorable house of commons ( an indulgence we hope will never be forgotten ) finding by papers received from them , that the members of the assembly were not like to compose differences amongst themselves , so as to joyn in the same rule for church-government , did order further as followeth : that a committee of lords and commons , &c. do take into consideration the differences of the opinions in the assembly of divines in point of church-government , and to endeavor a union if it be possible ; and in case that cannot be done , to endeavor the finding out some may , how far tender consciences , who cannot in all things submit to the same rule which shal be established , may be born with according to the word , and as may stand with the publique peace . by all which it is evident , the parliament purposed not to establish the rule of church-government with such rigor , as might not permit and bear with a practise different from what they had established : in persons and churches of different principles , if occasion were . and this christian clemency and indulgence in our governours , hath been the foundation of that freedom and liberty , in the managing of church-affairs , which our brethren , as well as we , that differ from them , do now , and have many years enjoyed . the honorable houses by several ordinances of parliament after much consultation , having setled rules for church-government , and such an eccleasistical order as they judged would best joynt with the laws and government of the kingdom , did publish them , requiring the practise hereof throughout the nation ; and in particular , by the min. of the pr. of lon. but ( upon the former reason , or the like charitable consideration ) these rules were not imposed by them under any penalty , or rigorous inforcement , though frequently urged thereunto by some . our reverend brethren of the province of london , having considered of these ordinances , and the church-government laid down in them , declared their opinions to be , that there is not a compleat rule in those ordinances ; also , that there are many necessary things not yet established , and some things wherein their consciences are not so fully satisfied . these brethren , in the same paper , have published also their joynt resolution to practise in all things according to the rule of the word , and according to these ordinances , so far as they conceive them correspond to it , and in so doing , they trust they shall not grieve the spirit of the truly godly , nor give any just occasion to them that are contrary minded , to blame their proceedings . we humbly conceive that ( we being dissatisfied in these things as our brethren ) the like liberty was intended by the honorable houses and may be taken by us of the congregational way ( without blame or grief to the spirits of those brethren at least ) to resolve , or rather to continue in the same resolution and practise in these matters , which indeed were our practises in times of greatest opposition , and before this reformation was began . and as our brethren the ministers of london , drew up and published their opinions and apprehensions about church-government into an intire system ; so we now give the like publique account of our consciences , and the rules by which we have constantly practised hitherto ; which we have here drawn up , and do present . whereby it will appear how much , or how little we differ in these things from our presbyterian brethren . and we trust there is no just cause why any man , either for our differing from the present settlement , it being out of conscience , and not out of contempt , or our differences one from another , being not wilful , should charge either of us with that odious reproach of schism . and indeed , if not for our d ffering from the state settlement , much less because we differ from our brethren , our d fferences being in some lesser things , and circumstances onely , as themselves acknowledge . and let it be further considered , that we have not broken from them or their order by these differences ( but rather they from us ) and in that respect we less deserve their censure ; our practise being no other then what it was in our breaking from episcopacy , and long before presbytery , or any such form as now they are in , was taken up by them ; and we will not say how probable it is , that the yoke of episcopacy had been upon our neck to this day , if some such way ( as formerly , and now is , and hath been termed schism ) had not with much suffering bin then practised , and since continued in . for novelty wherewith we are likewise both charged by the enemies of both , it is true , in respect of the publique and open profession , either of presbytery or independency , this nation hath been a stranger to each way , it 's possible , ever since it hath been christian ; though for our s lves we are able to trace the foot-steps of an independent congregational way in the ancientest customs of the churches ; as also in the writings of our soundest protestant divines , and ( that which we are much satified in ) a full concurrence throughout in all the substantial parts of church-government , with our reverend brethren the old puritan non-conformists ▪ who being instant in prayer and much sufferings , prevailed with the lord , and we reap with joy , what they sowed in tears . our brethren also that are for presbyterial subordinations , profess what is of weight against novelty for their way . and now therefore seeing the lord , in whose hand is the heart of princes , hath put into the hearts of our governours to tolerate and permit ( as they have done many years ) persons of each perswasion , to enjoy their consciences , though neither come up to the rule established by authority : and that which is more , to give us both protection , and the same encouragement , that the most devoted conformists in those former superstitious times enjoyed ; yea , and by a publike law to estalish this liberty for time to come ; and yet further , in the midst of our fears , to set over us a prince that owns this establishment , and cordially resolves to secure our churches in the enjoyment of these liberties , if we abuse them not to the disturbance of the civil peace . this should be a very great engagement upon the hearts of all , though of different perswasions , to endeavour our utmost , joyntly to promove the honour and prosperity of such a government and governours by whatsoever means , which in our callings as ministers of the gospel , and as churches of jesus christ the prince of peace , we are any way able to do ; as also to be peaceably disposed one towards another , and with mutual toleration to love as brethren , notwithstanding such differences : remembring , as it 's very equal we should , the differences that are between presbyterians and independents , being differences between fellow-servants , and neither of them having authority given from god or man , to impose their opinions , one more then the other . that our governours after so solemn an establishment , should thus bear with us both , in our greater differences from their rule : and after this , for any of us to take a fellow-servant by the throat , upon the account of a lesser reckoning , and nothing due to him upon it , is to forget , at least not to exercise , that compassion and tenderness we have found , where we had less ground to challenge or expect it . our prayer unto god is , that whereto we have already attained , we all may walk by the same rule , and that wherein we are otherwise minded , god would reveal it to us in his due time . a declaration of the faith and order owned and practised in the congregational churches in england . chap. i. of the holy scripture . although the light of nature , and the works of creation and providence , do so far manifest the goodnesse , wisdom , and power of god , as to leave men unexcusable ; yet are they not sufficient to give that knowledge of god and of his will , which is necessary unto salvation : therefore it pleased the lord at sundry times , and in divers manners to reveal himself , and to declare that his will unto his church ; and afterwards for the better preserving and propagating of the truth , and for the more sure establishment and comfort of the church against the corruption of the flesh , and the malice of satan and of the world , to commit the same wholly unto writing : which maketh the holy scripture to be most necessary ; those former wayes of gods revealing his will unto his people , being now ceased . ii. under the name of holy scripture , or the word of god written , are now contained all the books of the old and new testament ; which are these : of the old testament . genesis , exodus , leviticus , numbers , deuteronomy , joshua , judges , ruth , 1 samuel , 2 samuel , 1 kings , 2 kings , 1 chronicles , 2 chronicles , ezra , nehemiah , esther , job , psalms , proverbs , ecclesiastes , the song of songs , isaiah , jeremiah , lamentations ezekiel , daniel , hosea , joel , amos , obadiah , jonah , micah , nahum , habakkuk , zephaniah , haggai , zechariah , malachi . of the new testament . mathew , mark , luke , john , the acts of the apostles , pauls epistle to the romans , 1 corinthians , 2 corinthians , galatians , ephesians , phillippians , colossians , 1 thessalonians , 2 thessalonians , 1 to timothy , 2 to timothy , to titus , to philemon , the epistle to the hebrews , the epistle of james , the first and second epistles of peter , the first , second and third epistles of john , the epistle of jude , the revelation . all which are given by the inspiration of god to be the rule of faith and life . iii. the books commonly called apocrypha , not being of divine inspiration , are no part of the canon of the scripture ; and therefore are of no authority in the church of god , nor to be any otherwise approved or made use of , then other humane writings . iv. the authority of the holy scripture , for which it ought to be believed and obeyed , dependeth not upon the testimony of any man or church , but wholly upon god ( who is truth it self ) the author thereof ; and therefore it is to be received , because it is the word of god . v. we may be moved , and induced by the testimony of the church , to an high and reverent esteem of the holy scripture . and the heavenliness of the matter , the efficacy of the doctrine , the maiesty of the style , the consent of all the parts , the scope of the whole , ( which is , to give all glory to god ) the full discovery it makes of the only way of mans salvation , the many other incomparable excellencies , and the intire perfection thereof , are arguments whereby it doth abundantly evidence it self to be the word of god ; yet notwithstanding , our full perswasion and assurance of the infallible truth and divine authority thereof , is from the inward work of the holy spirit , bearing witness by and with the word in our hearts . vi . the whole counsel of god concerning all things necessary for his own glory , mans salvation , faith , and life , is either expresly set down in scripture , or by good and necessary consequence may be deduced from scripture ; unto which nothing at any time is to be added , whether by new revelations of the spirit , or traditions of men . nevertheless we acknowledge the inward illumination of the spirit of god to be necessary for the saving understanding of such things as are revealed in the word : and that there are some circumstances concerning the worship of god and government of the church , common to humane actions and societies , which are to be ordered by the light of nature and christian prudence , according to the general rules of the word , which are always to be observed . vii . all things in scripture are not alike plain in themselves , nor alike clear unto all : yet those things which are necessary to be known , believed , and observed for salvation , are so clearly propounded and opened in some place of scripture or other , that not only the learned , but the unlearned , in a due use of the ordinary means , may attain unto a sufficient understanding of them . viii . the old testament in hebrew ( which was the native language of the people of god of old ) and the new testament in greek ( which at the time of writing of it was most generally known to the nations ) being immediately inspired by god , and by his singular care and providence kept pure in all ages , are therefore authentical ; so as in all controversies of religion , the church is finally to appeal unto them . but because these original tongues are not known to all the people of god , who have right unto , and interest in the scriptures , and are commanded in the fear of god to read and search them ; therefore they are to be translated into the vulgar language of every nation unto which they come , that the word of god dwelling plentifully in all , they may worship him in an acceptable manner , and through patience and comfort of the scriptures may have hope . ix . the infallible rule of interpretation of scripture , is the scripture it self . and therefore when there is a question about the true and full sense of any scripture ( which is not manifold , but one ) it must be searched and known by other places , that speak more clearly . x. the supreme judge by which all controversies of religion are to be determined , and all decrees of councils , opinions of ancient writers , doctrines of men and private spirits , are to be examined , and in whose sentence we are to rest , can be no other , but the holy scripture delivered by the spirit ; into which scripture so delivered , our faith is finally resolved . chap. ii. of god and of the holy trinity . there is but one onely living and true god ; who is infinite in being and perfection ▪ a most pure spirit , invisible , without body , parts , or passions , immutable , immense , eternal , incomprehensible , almighty , most wise , most holy , most free , most absolute , working all things according to the counsel of his own immutable , and most righteous will , for his own glory , most loving , gracious , merciful , long-suffering , abundant in goodness and truth , forgiving iniquity , transgression and sin , the rewarder of them that diligently seek him ; and withal , most just and terrible in his judgments , hating all sin , and who will by no means clear the guilty . ii. god hath all life , glory , goodness , blessedness , in , and of himself ; and is alone in , and unto himself , all-sufficient , not standing in need of any creatures , which he hath made , nor deriving any glory from them , but onely manifesting his own glory in , by , unto , and upon them : he is the alone fountain of all being , of whom , through whom , and to whom are all things ; and hath most soveraign dominion over them , to do by them , for them , or upon them , whatsoever himself pleaseth : in his sight all things are open and manifest , his knowledge is infinite , infallible , and independent upon the creature , so as nothing is to him contingent or uncertain : he is most holy in all his counsels , in all his works , and in all his commands . to him is due from angels and men , and every other creature , whatsoever worship , service or obedience , as creatures , they owe unto the creator , and whatever he is further pleased to require of them . iii. in the unity of the god-head there be three persons , of one substance , power , and eternity , god the father , god the son , and god the holy ghost : the father is of none , neither begotten , nor proceeding , the son is eternally begotten of the father ; the holy ghost eternally proceeding from the father and the son . which doctrine of the trinity is the foundation of all our communion with god , and comfortable dependence upon him . chap. iii. of gods eternal decree . god from all eternity did by the most wise and holy counsel of his own will , freely and unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to passe : yet so , as thereby neither is god the author of sin , nor is violence offered to the will of the creatures , nor is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away , but rather established . ii. although god knowes whatsoever may or can come to pass upon all supposed conditions , yet hath he not decreed any thing , because he foresaw it as future , or as that which would come to passe upon such conditions . iii. by the decree of god for the manifestation of his glory , some men and angels are predestinated unto everlasting life , and others fore-ordained to everlasting death . iv. these angels and men thus predestinated , and fore-ordained , are particularly and unchangeably designed ; and their number is so certain and definite , that it cannot be either increased or diminished . v. those of mankind that are predestinated unto life , god , before the foundation of the world was laid , according to his eternal and immutable purpose , and the secret counsel and good pleasure of his will , hath chosen in christ unto everlasting glory , out of his meer free grace and love , without any sore-sight of faith or good works , or perseverance in either of them , or any other thing in the creature , as conditions or causes moving him thereunto , and all to the praise of his glorious grace . vi . as god hath appointed the elect unto glory , so hath he by the eternal and most free purpose of his will fore-ordained all the means thereunto : wherefore they who are elected , being faln in adam , are redeemed by christ , are effectually called unto faith in christ by his spirit working in due season , are justified , adopted , sanctified , and kept by his power , through faith , unto salvation . neither are any other redeemed by christ , or effectually called , justified , adopted , sanctified , and saved , but the elect onely . vii . the rest of mankind god was pleased , according to the unsearchable counsel of his own will , whereby he extendeth or withholdeth mercy , as he pleaseth , for the glory of his soveraign power over his creatures , to passe by and to ordain them to dishonour and wrath for their sin , to the praise of his glorious justice . viii . the doctrine of this high mystery of predestination , is to be handled with special prudence and care , that men attending the will of god revealed in his word , and yielding obedience thereunto , may from the certainty of their effectual vocation , be assured of their eternal election . so shall this ▪ doctrine afford matter of praise , reverence and admiration of god ; and of humility , diligence , and abundant consolation to all that sincerely obey the gospel . chap. iv. of creation . it pleased god the father , son , and holy ghost , for the manifestation of the glory of his eternal power , wisdom , and goodness , in the beginning , to create or make of nothing the world , and all things therein , whether visible or invisible , in the space of six dayes , and all very good . ii. after god had made all other creatures , he created man , male and female , with reasonable and immortal souls , endued with knowledg , righteousness and true holiness , after his own image , having the law of god written in their hearts , and power to fulfill it ; and yet under a a possibility of transgressing , being left to the liberty of their own will , which was subject unto change . besides this law written in their hearts , they received a command not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil ; which whiles they kept , they were happy in their communion with god , and had dominion over the creatures . chap. v. of providence . god the great creator of all things , doth uphold , direct , dispose and govern all creatures , actions and things from the greatest even to the least , by his most wise and holy providence , according unto his infallible fore-knowledge , and the free and immutable counsel of his own will , to the praise of the glory of his wisdom , power , justice , goodness and mercy . ii. although in relation to the fore-knowledge and decree of god , the first cause , all things come to passe immutably , and infallibly ; yet by the same providence he ordereth them to fall out , according to the nature of second causes , either necessarily , freely , or contingently . iii. god in his ordinary providence maketh use of means , yet is free to work without , above , and against them at his pleasure . iv. the almighty power , unsearchable wisdom , and infinite goodness of god , so far manifest themselves in his providence , in that his determinate counsel , extendeth it self even to the first fall , and all other sins of angels and men ( and that not by a bare permission ) which also he most wisely and powerfully ▪ boundeth , and otherwise ordereth and governeth in a manifold dispensation to his own most holy ends ; yet so , as the sinfulnesse thereof proceedeth onely from the creature , and not from god , who being most holy and righteous , neither is , nor can be , the author or approver of sin . v. the most wise righteous and gracious god , doth oftentimes leave for a season his own children to manifold temptations , and the corruption of their own hearts , to chastise them for their former sins , or to discover unto them the hidden strength of corruption , and deceitfulness of their hearts , that they may be humbled ; and to raise them to a more close and constant dependance for their support upon himself , and to make them more watchfull against all future occasions of sin , and for sandry other just and holy ends . vi . as for those wicked and ungodly men , whom god as a righteous judge , for former sins , doth blind and harden , from them he not onely withholdeth his grace , whereby they might have been inlightned in their understandings , and wrought upon in their hearts ; but sometimes also withdraweth the gifts which they had , and exposeth them to such objects , as their corruption makes occasions of sin ; and withall gives them over to their own lusts , the temptations of the wo●ld ▪ and the power of satan ; whe●eby it comes to passe that they harden themselves ▪ even under those means which god useth for the softning of others . vii . as the providence of god doth in general each to all creatures , so after a most special manner it taketh care of his church , and disposeth all things to the good thereof . chap. vi . of the fall of man , of sin , and of the punishment thereof . god having made a covenant of works and life , thereupon , with our first parents , and all their posterity in them , they being seduced by the subtilty and temptation of satan , did wilfully transgress the law of their creation , and break the covenant in eating the forbidden fruit . ii. by this sin they , and we in them , fell from original righteousnesse and communion with god , and so became dead in sin , and wholly defiled in all the faculties and parts of soul and body . iii. they being the root , and by gods appointment standing in the room and stead of all mankind , the guilt of this sin was imputed , and corrupted nature conveyed to all their posterity descending from them by ordinary generation . iv. from this original corruption , whereby we are utterly indisposed , disabled and made opposite to all good , and wholly enclined to all evil , do proceed all actual transgressions . v. this corruption of nature during this life , doth remain in those that are regenerated ; and although it be through christ pardoned and mortified , yet both it self and all the motions thereof are truly and properly sin . vi . every sin , both original and actual , being a transgression of the righteous law of god , and contrary thereunto , doth in its own nature bring guilt upon the sinner , whereby he is bound over to the wrath of god , and curse of the law , and so made subject to death , with all miseries spiritual , temporal , and eternal . chap. vii . of gods covenant with man . the distance between god and the creature is so great , that although reasonable creatures do owe obedience unto him as their creator , yet they could never have attained the reward of life , but by some voluntary condescension on gods part , which he hath been pleased to express by way of covenant . ii. the first covenant made with man , was a covenant of works , wherein life was promised to adam , and in him to his posterity , upon condition of perfect and personal obedience . iii. man by his fall having made himself uncapable of life by that covenant , the lord was pleased to make a second , commonly called the covenant of grace ; wherein he freely offereth unto sinners life and salvation by jesus christ , requiring of them faith in him that they may be saved , and promising to give unto all those that are ordained unto life , his holy spirit , to make them willing and able to believe . iv. this covenant of grace is frequently set forth in the scripture by the name of a testament , in reference to the death of jesus christ the testator , and to the everlasting inheritance , with all things belonging to it , therein bequeathed . v. although this covenant hath been differently and variously administred in respect of ordinances and institutions in the time of the law , and since the coming of christ in the flesh ; yet for the substance and efficacy of it , to all its spiritual and saving ends , it is one and the same ; upon the account of which various dispensations , it is called the old and new testament . chap. viii . of christ the mediator . it pleased god , in his eternal purpose , to chuse and ordain the lord jesus his only begotten son , according to a covenant made between them both , to be the mediator between god and man ; the prophet , priest , and king , and head and saviour of his church , the heir of all things , and judge of the world ; unto whom he did from all eternity give a people to be his seed , and to be by him in time redeemed , called , justified , sancti●●ed , and glori●yed . ii. the son of god , the second person in the trinity , being very and eternal god of one substance , and equal with the father , did , when the fulness o● time was come , take upon him mans nature , with all the essential properties and common in●irmities thereof , yet without sin , being conceived by the power of the holy ghost , in the womb of the virgin mary of her substance : so that two whole perfect and distinct natures , the godhead and the manhood , were inseparably joyned together in one person , without conversion , composition , or confusion ; which person is very god and very man , yet one christ , the only mediator between god and man . iii. the lord jesus in his humane nature , thus united to the divine in the person of the son , was sanctified and anointed with the holy spirit above measure , having in him all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge , in whom it pleased the father that all fulnesse should dwell , to the end that being holy , harmlesse , undefiled , and full of grace and truth , he might be throughly furnished to execute the office of a mediator and surety ; which office he took not unto himself , but was thereunto called by his father , who also put all power and judgment into his hand , and gave him commandment to execute the same . iv. this office the lord jesus did most willingly undertake ; which that he might discharge , he was made under the law , and did perfectly fulfil it ; and under went the punishment due to us , which we should have born and suffered : being made sin and curse for us , enduring most grievous torments immediately from god in his soul , and most painful sufferings in his body , was crucified , and died , was buried , and remained under the power of death , yet saw no corruption ; on the third day he arose from the dead with the same body in which he suffered , with which also he ascended into heaven , and there sitteth at the right hand of his father , making intercession , and shall return to judge men and angels at the end of the world . v. the lord jesus by his perfect obedience and sacrifice of himself , which he through the eternal spirit once offered up unto god , hath fully satisfied the justice of god , and purchased not onely reconciliation , but an everlasting inheritance in the kingdom of heaven , for all those whom the father hath given unto him . vi . although the work of redemption was not actually wrought by christ , till after his incarnation ; yet the vertue , efficacy and benefits thereof were communicated to the elect in all ages , successively from the beginning of the world , in and by those promises , types , and sacrifices , wherein he was revealed and signified to be the seed of the woman , which should bruise the serpent's head , and the lamb slain from the beginning of the world , being yesterday and to day the same , and for ever . vii . christ in the work of mediation acteth according to both natures , by each natures , doing that which is proper to it self ; yet by reason of the unity of the person , that which is proper to one nature , is sometimes in scripture attributed to the person denominated by the other nature . viii . to all those for whom christ hath purchased redemption , he doth certainly and effectually apply and communicate the same , making intercession for them ; and revealing unto them in and by the word , the mysteries of salvation , effectually perswading them by his spirit to believe and obey , and governing their hearts by his word and spirit , overcoming all their enemies by his almighty power and wisdom , and in such manner and ways as are most consonant to his wonderful and unsearchable dispensation . chap. ix . of free will . god hath end●ed the will of man with that natural liberty and power of acting upon choice , that it is neither forced , nor by any absolute necessity of nature determined to do good or evil . ii. man in his state of innocency had freedome and power to will and to do that which was good and well pleasing to god ; but yet mutably , so that he might fall from it . iii. man by his fall into a state of sin , hath wholly lost all ability of will , to any spiritual good accompanying salvation ; so as a natural man being altogether averse from that good , and dead in sin , is not able by his own strength to convert himself , or to prepare himself thereunto . iv. when god converts a sinner , and translates him into the state of grace , he freeeth him from his natural bondage under sin , and by his grace alone inables him freely to will and to do that which is spiritually good ; yet so , as that by reason of his remaining-corruption , he doth not perfectly , nor only will that which is good , but doth also will that which is evil . v. the will of man is made perfectly , and immutably free to good alone in the state of glory onely . chap. x. of effectual calling . all those whom god hath predestin●ted unto life , and those only , he is pleased in his appointed and accepted time effectually to call by his word and spirit , out of that state of sin and death in which they are by nature , to grace and salvation by jesus christ , inlightning their minds spiritually and savingly to understand the things of god , taking away their heart of stone , and giving unto them an heart of flesh , renewing their wills , and by his almighty power determining them to that which is good , and effectually drawing them to jesus christ ; yet so , as they come most freely , being made willing by his grace . ii. this effectual call is of gods free and special grace alone , not from any thing at all foreseen in man , who is altogether passive therein , untill being quickned and renewed by the holy spirit , he is thereby enabled to answer this call , and to embrace the grace offered and conveyed in it . iii. elect infants dying in infancy , are regenerated and saved by christ , who worketh when , and where , and how he pleaseth : so also are all other elect persons who are uncapable of being outwardly called by the ministery of the word . iv. others not elected , although they may be called by the ministry of the word , and may have some common operations of the spirit ; yet not being effectual drawn by the father , they neither do nor can come unto christ , and therefore cannot be saved ; much less can men not professing the christian religion , be saved in any other way whatsoever , be they never so diligent to frame their lives according to the light of nature , and the law of that religion they do profess : and to assert and maintain that they may , is very pernicious , and to be detested . chap. xi . of justification . those whom god effectually calleth , he also freely justifieth , not by infusing righteousnesse into them , but by pardoning their sins , and by accounting and accepting their persons as righteous , not for any thing wrought in them , or done by them , but for christs sake alone ; nor by imputing faith it self , the act of believing , or any other evangelical obedience to them , as their righteousness , but by imputing christs active obedience unto the whole law , and passive obedience in his death , for their whole and sole righteousness , they receiving and resting on him and his righteousness by faith ; which faith they have not of themselves , it is the gift of god . ii. faith thus receiving and resting on christ , and his righteousness , is the alone instrument of justification ; yet it is not alone in the person justified , but is ever accompanied with all other saving graces , and is no dead faith , but worketh by love . iii. christ by his obedience and death did fully discharge the debt of all those that are justified , and did by the sacrifice of himself , in the blood of his cross , undergoing in their stead the penalty due unto them , make a proper , real , and full satisfaction to gods justice in their behalf : yet , in as much as he was given by the father for them , and his obedience and satisfaction accepted in their stead , and both freely , not for any thing in them , their justification is only of free grace , that both the exact justice and rich grace of god might be glorified in the justification of sinners . iv. god did from all eternity decree to justifie all the elect , and christ did in the fulness of time dye for their sins , and rise again for their justification : nevertheless , they are not justified personally , until the holy spirit doth in due time actually apply christ unto them . v. god doth continue to forgive the sins of those that are justified ; and although they can never fall from the state of justification , yet they may by their sins fall under gods fatherly displeasure : and in that condition they have not usually the light of his countenance restored unto them , until they humble themselves , coness their sins , beg pardon , and renew their faith and repentance . vi . the justification of believers under the old testament , was in all these respects one and the same with the justification of believers under the new testament . chap. xii . of adoption . all those that are justified , god vouchsafeth in and for his only son jesus christ , to make partakers of the grace of adoption , by which they are taken into the number , and enjoy the liberties and priviledges of the children of god , have his name put upon them , receive the spirit of adoption , have accesse to the throne of grace with boldness , are enabled to cry , abba , father , are pitied , protected , provided for , and chastened by him as by a father , yet never cast off , but sealed to the day of redemption , and inherit the promises as heirs of everlasting salvation . chap. xiii . of sanctification . they that are united to christ , effectually called and regenerated , having a new heart and a new spirit created in them , through the vertue of christs death and resurrection , are also further sanctified really and personally through the same vertue , by his word and spirit dwelling in them ; the dominion of the whole body of sin is destroyed , and the several lusts thereof are more and more weakned , and mortified , and they more and more quickned , and strengthned in all saving graces , to the practice of all true holiness , without which no man shall see the lord . ii. this sanctification is throughout in the whole man , yet imperfect in this life , there abideth still some remnants of corruption in every part , whence ariseth a continual and irreconcileable war , the flesh lusting against the spirit , and the spirit against the flesh . iii. in which war , although the remaining corruption for a time may much prevail , yet through the continual supply of strength from the sanctifying spirit of christ , the regenerate part doth overcome , and so the saints grow in grace , perfecting holinesse in the fear of god . chap. xiv . of saving faith . the grace of faith , whereby the elect are inabled to believe to the saving of their souls , is the work of the spirit of christ in their hearts , and is ordinarily wrought by the ministery of the word ; by which also , and by the administration of the seals , prayer , and other means , it is increased and strengthened . ii. by this faith a christian believeth to be true whatsoever is revealed in the word , for the authority of god himself speaking therein , and acteth differently upon that which each particular passage thereof containeth , yielding obedience to the commands , trembling at the threatnings , and embracing the promises of god for this life , and that which is to come . but the principal acts of saving faith are , accepting , receiving , and resting upon christ alone , for justification , sanctification , and eternal life , by vertue of the covenant of grace . iii. this faith , although it be different in degrees , and may be weak or strong , yet it is in the least degree of it different in the kind or nature of it ( as is all other saving grace ) from the faith and common grace of temporary believers ; and therefore , though it may be many times assailed and weakened , yet it gets the victory , growing up in many to the attainment of a full assurance through christ , who is both the author and finisher of our faith . chap. xv . of repentance unto life and salvation . such of the elect as are converted at riper years , having sometime lived in the state of nature , and therein served divers lusts and pleasures , god in their effectual calling giveth them repentance unto life . ii. whereas there is none that doth good , and sinneth not , and the best of men may through the power and deceitfulness of their corruptions dwelling in them , with the prevalency of temptation , fall into great sins and provocations ; god hath in the covenant of grace mercifully provided , that believers so sinning and falling , be renewed through repentance unto salvation . iii. this saving repentance is an evangelical grace , whereby a person being by the holy ghost made sensible of the manifold evils of his sin , doth by faith in christ humble himself for it with godly sorrow , detestation of it , and self-abhorrency , praying for pardon and strength of grace , with a purpose and endeavour by supplies of the spirit , to walk before god unto all well-pleasing in all things . iv. as repentance is to be continued through the whole course of our lives , upon the account of the body of death , and the motions thereof ; so it is every mans duty to repent of his particular known sins particularly . v. such is the provision which god hath made through christ in the covenant of grace , for the preservation of believers unto salvation , that although there is no sin so small but it deserves damnation ; yet here is no sin so great , that it shall bring damnation on them who truly repent ; which makes the constant preaching of repentance necessary . chap. xvi . of good works . good works are only such as god hath commanded in his holy word , and not such as without the warrant thereof are devised by men our of blind zeal , or upon any pretence of good intentions . ii. these good works done in obedience to gods commandments , are the fruits and evidences of a true and lively faith , and by them believers manifest their thankfulnesse , strengthen their assurance , edifie their brethren , adorn the profession of the gospel , stop the mouths of the adversaries , and glorifie god , whose workmanship they are , created in in christ jesus thereunto , that having their fruit unto holiness , they may have the end eternal life . iii. their ability to do good works is not at all of themselves , but wholly from the spirit of christ : and that they may be enabled thereunto , besides the graces they have already received , there is required an actual influence of the same holy spirit , to work in them to will and to do of his good pleasure ; yet are they not hereupon to grow negligent , as if they were not bound to perform any duty , unless upon a special motion of the spirit , but they ought to be diligent in stirring up the grace of god that is in them . iv. they who in their obedience attain to the greatest height which is possible in this life , are so far from being able to superogate , and to do more then god requires , as that they fall short of much , which in duty they are bound to do . v. we cannot by our best works merit pardon of sin , or eternal life at the hand of god , by reason of the great disproportion that is between them , and the glory to come ; and the infinite distance that is between us , and god , whom by them we can neither profit , nor satisfie for the debt of our former sins ; but when we have done all we can , we have done but our duty , and are unprofitable servants : and because as they are good , they proceed from his spirit ; and as they are wrought by us , they are defiled and mixed with so much weakness and imperfection , that they cannot endure the severity of gods judgement . vi . yet notwithstanding , the persons of believers being accepted through christ , their good works also are accepted in him ; not as though they were in this life wholly unblameable and unreproveable in gods sight , but that he looking upon them in his son , is pleased to accept and reward that which is sincere , although accompanied with many weaknesses and imperfections . vii . works done by unregenerate men , although for the matter of them they may be things which god commands , and of good use both to themselves and to others : yet because they proceed not from a heart purified by faith , nor are done in a right manner , according to the word , nor to a right end , the glory of god ; they are therefore sinful , and cannot please god , nor make a man meet to receive grace from god ; and yet their neglect of them is more sinful , and displeasing unto cod. chap. xvii . of the perseverance of the saints . they whom god hath accepted in his beloved , effectually called and sanctified by his spirit , can neither totally nor finally fall away from the state of grace , but shall certainly persevere therein to the end , and be eternally saved . ii. this perseverance of the saints depends not upon their own free-will , but upon the immutability of the decree of election , from the free and unchangeable love of god the father , upon the efficacy of the merit and intercession of jesus christ , and union with him , the oath of god , the abiding of his spirit , and of the seed of god within them , and the nature of the covenant of grace , from all which ariseth also the certainty and infallibility thereof . iii. and though they may , through the temptation of satan and of the world , the prevalency of corruption remaining in them , and the neglect of the means of their preservation , fall into grievous sins , and for a time continue therein , whereby they incur gods displeasure , and grieve his holy spirit , come to have their graces and comforts impaired , have their hearts hardned , and their consciences wounded , hurt and scandalize others , and bring temporal judgments upon themselves ; yet they are , and shall be , kept by the power of god through faith unto salvation . chap. xviii . of the assurance of grace and salvation . although temporary believers , and other unregenerate men may vainly deceive themselves with false hopes , and carnal presumptions of being in the favour of god , and state of salvation , which hope of theirs shall perish ; yet such as truly believe in the lord jesus , and love him in sincerity , endeavouring to walk in all good conscience before him , may in this life be certainly assured that they are in the state of grace , and may rejoyce in the hope of the glory of god ; which hope shall never make them ashamed . ii. this certainty is not a bare conjectural and probable perswasion , grounded upon a fallible hope , but an infallible assurance of faith , founded on the blood and righteousnesse of christ , revealed in the gospel , and also upon the inward evidence of those graces unto which promises are made , and on the immediate witnesse of the spirit , testifying our adoption , and as a fruit thereof , leaving the heart more humble and holy . iii. this infallible assurance doth not so belong to the essence of faith , but that a true believer may wait long , and conflict with many difficulties before he be partaker of it ; yet being inabled by the spirit to know the things which are freely given him of god , he may without extraordinary revelation , in the right use of ordinary means attain thereunto : and therefore it is the duty of every one , to give all diligence to make his calling and election sure , that thereby his heart may be inlarged in peace and joy in the holy ghost , in love and thankfulnesse to god , and in strength and chearfulnesse in the duties of obedience , the proper fruits of this assurance ; so far is it from inclining men to loosenesse . iv. true believers may have the assurance of their salvation divers wayes shaken , diminished , and intermitted ; as by negligence in preserving of it , by falling into some special sin , which woundeth the conscience , and grieveth the spirit , by some sudden or vehement temptation , by gods withdrawing the light of his countenance , suffering even such as fear him to walk in darknesse , and to have no light ; yet are they neither utterly destitute of that seed of god , and life of faith , that love of christ and the brethren , that sincerity of heart , and conscience of duty , out of which , by the operation of the spirit , this assurance may in due time be revived ; and by the which in the mean time , they are supported from utter despair . chap. xix . of the law of god . god gave to adam a law of universal obedience written in his heart , and a particular precept of not eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil , as a covenant of works , by which he bound him and all his posterity to personal , entire , exact , and perpetual obedience ; promised life upon the fulfilling , and threatned death upon the breach of it , and indued him with power and ability to keep it . ii. this law so written in the heart , continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness after the fall of man , and was delivered by god upon mount sinai in ten commandments , and written in two tables ; the four first commandments containing our duty towards god , and the other six our duty to man . iii. beside this law commonly called moral , god was pleased to give to the people of israel ceremonial laws , containing several typical ordinances , partly of worship , prefiguring christ , his graces , actions , sufferings and benefits ; and partly holding forth divers instructions o● moral duties : all which ceremonial laws being appointed onely to the time of reformation , are by jesus christ the true messiah and only law-giver , who was furnished with power from the father for that end , abrogated and taken away . iv. to them also he gave sundry judicial laws , which expired together with the state of that people , not obliging any now by vertue of that institution , their general equity onely being still of moral use . v. the moral law doth for ever bind all , as well justified persons as others , to the obedience thereof ; and that not onely in regard of the matter contained in it , but also in respect of the authority of god the creator , who gave it : neither doth christ in the gospel any way dissolve , but much strengthen this obligation . vi . although true believers be not under the law , as a covenant of works , to be thereby justified or condemned ; yet it is of great use to them as well as to others , in that , as a rule of life , inform ng them of the will of god , and their duty , it directs and binds them to walk accordingly , discovering also the sinful pollutions of their nature , hearts , & lives , so as examining themselves thereby , they may come to further conviction of humiliation for , and hatred against sin , together with a clearer sight of the need they have of christ , & the perfection of his obedience . it is likewise of use to the regenerate , to restrain their corruptions , in that it forbids sin , and the threatnings of it serve to shew what even their sins deserve , and what afflictions in this life they may expect for them , although freed from the curse thereof threatned in the law . the promises of it in like manner shew them god's approbation of obedience , and what blessings they may expect upon the performance thereof , although not as due to them by the law , as a covenant of works ; so as a mans doing good , and refraining from evil , because the law encourageth to the one , and deterreth from the other , is no evidence of his being under the law , and not under grace . vii . neither are the fore-mentioned uses of the law contrary to the grace of the gospel ; but do sweetly comply with it , the spirit of christ subduing and inabling the will of man to do that freely and chearfully , which the will of god revealed in the law required to be done . chap. xxs of the gospel , and of the extent of the grace thereof . the covenant of works being broken by sin , and made unprofitable unto life , god was pleased to give unto the elect the promise of christ , the seed of the woman , as the means of calling them , and begetting in them faith and repentance : in this promise , the gospel , as to the substance of it , was revealed , and was therein effectual for the conversion and salvation of sinners . ii. this promise of christ , and salvation by him , is revealed onely in and by the word of god ; neither do the works of creation or providence , with the light of nature , make discovery of christ , or of grace by him , so much as in a general or obscure way ; much less that men destitute of the revelation of him by the promise or gospel , should be inabled thereby to attain saving faith or repentance . iii. the revelation of the gospel unto sinners made in divers times , and by sundry parts , with the addition of promises and precepts for the obedience required therein , as to the nations and persons to whom it is granted , is meerly of the soveraign will and good pleasure of god , not being annexed by vertue of any promise to the due improvement of mens natural abilities , by vertue of common light received without it , which none ever did make , or can so do : and therefore in all ages the preaching of the gospel hath been granted unto persons and nations , as to the extent or straitning of it , in great variety , according to the counsel of the will of god . iv. although the gospel be the onely outward means of revealing christ and saving grace , and is as such abundantly sufficient thereunto ; yet that men who are dead in trespasses , may be born again , quickned , or regenerated , there is moreover necessary an effectual , irresistible work of the holy ghost upon the whole soul , for the producing in them a new spiritual life , without which no other means are sufficient for their conversion unto god . chap. xxi . of christian liberty , and liberty of conscience . the liberty which christ hath purchased for believers under the gospel , consists in their freedom from the guilt of sin , the condemning wrath of god , the rigour and curse of the law , and in their being delivered from this present evil world , bondage to satan , and dominion of sin , from the evil of afflictions , the fear and sting of death , the victory of the grave , and everlasting damnation ; as also in their free access to god , and their yielding obedience unto him , not out of slavish fear , but a child-like-love , and willing mind : all which were common also to believers under the law , for the substance of them ; but under the new testament the liberty of christians is further inlarged in their freedom from the yoake of the ceremonial law , the whole legal administration of the covenant of grace , to which the jewish church was subjected , and in greater boldness of access to the throne of grace , and in fuller communications of the free spirit of god , then believers under the law did ordinarily partake of . ii. god alone is lord of the conscience , and hath left it free from the doctrines and commandments of men , which are in any thing contrary to his word , or not contained in it ; so that to believe such doctrines , or to obey such commands out of conscience , is to betray true liberty of conscience ; and the requiring of an implicit faith , and an absolute and blind obedience , is to destroy liberty of conscience , and reason also . iii. they who upon pretence of christian liberty , do practise any sin , or cherish any lust , as they do thereby pervert the main design of the grace of the gospel to their own destruction ; so they wholly destroy the end of christian liberty , which is , that being delivered out of the hands of our enemies , we might serve the lord without fear , in holinesse and righteousnesse before him all the dayes of our life . chap. xxii . of religious worship , and the sabhath-day . the light of nature sheweth that there is a god , who hath lordship and soveraignty over all , is just , good , and doth good unto all , and is therefore to be feared , loved , praised , called upon , trusted in , and served with all the heart , and all the soul , and with all the might : but the acceptable way of worshipping the true god is instituted by himself , and so limited by his own revealed will , that he may not be worshipped according to the imaginations and devices of men , or the suggestions of satan , under any visible representations , or any other way prescribed in the holy scripture . ii. religious worship is to be given to god the father , son , and holy ghost , and to him alone ; not to angels , saints , or any other creatures ; and since the fall , not without a mediatour , nor in the mediation of any other but of christ alone . iii. prayer with thanksgiving , being one special part of natural worship , is by god required of all men ; but that it may be accepted , it is to be made in the name of the son , by the help of the spirit , according to his will , with understanding , reverence , humility , fervency , faith , love , and perseverance ; and when with others in a known tongue . iv. prayer is to be made for things lawful , and for all sorts of men living , or that shall live hereafter , but not for the dead , nor for those of whom it may be known that they have sinned the sin unto death . v. the reading of the scriptures , preaching , and hearing the word of god , singing of psalms , as also the administration of baptism and the lords supper , are all parts of religious worship of god , to be performed in obedience unto god with understanding , faith , reverence , and godly fear : solemn humiliations , with fastings and thanksgiving upon special occasions , are in their several times and seasons to be used in a holy and religious manner . vi . neither prayer nor any other part of religious worship , is now under the gospel either tyed unto , or made more acceptable by any place , in which it is performed , or towards which it is directed ; but god is to be worshipped every where in spirit and in truth , as in private families daily , and in secret each one by himself , so more solemnly in the publique assemblies , which are not carelesly nor wilfully to be neglected , or forsaken , when god by his word or providence calleth thereunto . vii . as it is of the law of nature , that in general a proportion of time by gods appointment be set apart for the worship of god ; so by his word in a positive , moral , and perpetual commandment , binding all men in all ages , he hath particularly appointed one day in seaven for a sabbath to be kept holy unto him , which from the beginning of the world to the resurrection of christ , was the last day of the week , and from the resurrection of christ was changed into the first day of the week , which in scripture , is called the lords day , and is to be continued to the end of the world as the christian sabbath , the observation of the last day of the week being abolished . viii . this sabbath is then kept holy unto the lord , when men after a due preparing of their hearts , and ordering their common affaires before hand , do not only observe an holy rest all the day from their own works , words , and thoughts about their worldly imployments and recreations , but also are taken up the whole time in the publique and private exercisesof his worship , and in the duties of necessity and mercy . chap. xxiii . of lawful oaths and vows . a lawful oath is a part of religious worship , wherein the person swearing in truth , righteousness , and judgment , solemnly calleth god to witness what he afferteth or promiseth , and to judge him according to the truth or falshood of what he sweareth . ii. the name of god onely is that by which men ought to swear ; and therein it is to be used with all holy fear and reverence : therefore to swear vainly , or rashly , by that glorious or dreadful name , or to sweat at all by any other thing , is sinful and to be abhorred : yet as in matters of weight and moment an oath is warranted by the word of god under the new testament , as well as under the old ; so a lawful oath , being imposed by lawful authority in such matters , ought to be taken . iii. whosoever taketh an oath warranted by the word of god , ought duly to consider the weightiness of so solemn an act , and therein to avouch nothing but what he is fully perswaded is the truth : neither may any man bind himself by oath to any thing , but what is good and just , and what he believeth so to be , and what he is able and resolved to perform . yet it is a sin to refuse an oath touching any thing that is good and just , being lawfully imposed by authority . iv. an oath is to be taken in the plain and common sense of the words , without equivocation , or mental reservation : it cannot oblige to sin , but in any thing not sinful , being taken it binds to performance , although to a mans own hurt ; nor is it to be violated , although made to hereticks or infidels . v. a vow , which is not to be made to any creature , but god alone , is of the like nature with a promissory oath , and ought to be made with the like religious care , and to be performed with the like faithfulness . vi . popish monastical vows of perpetual single life , professed poverty , and regular obedience , are so far from being degrees of higher perfection , that they are superstitious and sinful snares , in which no christian may intangle himself . chap. xxiv . of the civil magistrate . god the supreme lord and king of all the world , hath ordained civil magistrates to be under him , over the people for his own glory and the publique good : and to this end hath armed them with the power of the sword , for the defence and incouragement of them that do good ; and for the punishment of evil-doers . ii. it is lawful for christians to accept and execute the office of a magistrate , when called thereunto : in the management whereof , as they ought specially to maintain justice and peace , according to the wholsome laws of each common-wealth ; so for that end they may lawfully now under the new testament wage war upon just and necessary occasion . iii. although the magistrate is bound to incourage , promote , and protect the professors and profession of the gospel , and to manage and order civil administrations in a due subserviency to the interest of christ in the world , and to that end to take care that men of coroupt minds and conversations do not licentiously publish and divulge blasphemy and errors , in their own nature subverting the faith , and inevitably destroying the souls of them that receive them : yet in such differences about the doctrines of the gospel , or ways of the worship of god , as may befal men exercising a good conscience , manifesting it in their conversation , and holding the foundation , not disturbing others in their ways or worship that differ from them ; there is no warrant for the magistrate under the gospel to abridge them of their liberty . iv. it is the duty of people to pray for magistrates , to honor their persons , to pay them tribute and other dues , to obey their lawful commands , and to be subject to their authority for conscience sake . infidelity , or difference in religion , doth not make void the magistrates just and legal authority , nor free the people from their obedience to him : from which , ecclesiastical persons are not exempted , much lesse hath the pope any power or jurisdiction over them in their dominions , or over any of their people , and least of all to deprive them of their dominions , or lives , if he shall judge them to be hereticks , or upon any other pretence whatsoever . chap. xxv . of marriage . marriage is to be between one man and one woman : neither is it lawful for any man to have more then one wife , nor for any woman to have more then one husband at the same time . ii. marriage was ordained for the mutual help of husband and wife , for the increase of mankind with a legitimate issue , and of the church with an holy seed , and for preventing of uncleanness . iii. it is lawful for all sorts of people to marry , who are able with judgment to give their consent . yet it is the duty of christians to marry in the lord , and therefore such as profess the true reformed religion , should not marry with infidels , papists , or other idolaters : neither should such as are godly , be unequally yoaked by marrying with such as are wicked in their life , or maintain damnable heresy . vi . marriage ought not to be within the degrees of consanguinity , or affinity forbidden in the word ; nor can such incestuous marriages ever be made lawful by any law of man , or consent of parties , so as those persons may live together as man and wife . chap. xxvi . of the church . the catholique or universal church , which is invisible , consists of the whole number of the elect , that have been , are , or shall be gathered into one under christ , the head thereof ; and is the spouse , the body , the fulness of him that filleth all in all . ii. the whole body of men throughout the world , professing the faith of the gospel , and obedience unto god by christ according unto it , not destroying their own profession by any errors everting the foundation ▪ or unholiness of conversation , are , and may be called the visible catholique church of christ , although as such it is not intrusted with the administration of any ordinances , or have any offices to rule or govern in , or over the whole body . iii. the purest churches under heaven are subject both to mixture and error , and some have so degenerated as to become no churches of christ , but synagogues of satan : neverthelesse christ always hath had , and ever shall have a visible kingdom in this world , to the end thereof , of such as believe in him , and make profession of his name . iv. there is no other head of the church but the lord jesus christ ; nor can the pope of rome in any sence be head thereof : but it is that antichrist , that man of sin , and son of perdition , that exalteth himself in the church against christ , and all that is called god , whom the lord shall destroy with the brightness of his coming . v. as the lord is in care and love towards his church , hath in his infinite wise providence exercised it with great variety in all ages , for the good of them that love him , and his own glory : so according to his promise , we expect that in the latter days , antichrist being destroyed , the jews called , and the adversaries of the kingdom of his dear son broken , the churches of christ being inlarged , and edified through a free and plentiful communication of light and grace , shall enjoy in this world a more quiet , peaceable and glorious condition then they have enjoyed . chap. xxvii . of the communion of saints . all saints that are united to jesus christ their head , by his spirit and faith , although they are not made thereby one person with him , have fellowship in graces , sufferings , death , resurrection and glory : and being united to one another in love , they have communion in each others gifts and grace , and are obliged to the performance of such duties , publique and private , as do conduce to their mutuall good , both in the inward and outward man . ii. all saints are bound to maintain an holy fellowship and communion in the worship of god , and in performing such other spiritual services as tend to their mutual edification ; as also in relieving each other in outward things , according to their several abilities and necessities : which communion , though especially to be exercised by them in the relations wherein they stand , whether in families or churches , yet as god offereth opportunity , is to be extended unto all those who in every place call upon the name of the lord jesus . chap. xxviii . of the sacraments . sacraments are holy signs and seals of the covenant of grace , immediately instituted by christ , to represent him and his benefits , and to confirm our interest in him , and solemnly to engage us to the service of god in christ , according to his word . ii. there is in every sacrament a spiritual relation , or sacramental union between the signe and the thing signified ; whence it comes to pass ▪ that the names and effects of the one are attributed to the other . iii. the grace which is exhibited in or by the sacraments rightly used , is not conferred by any power in them , neither doth the efficacy of a sacrament depend upon the piety or intention of him that doth administer it , but upon the work of the spirit , and the word of institution , which contains together with a precept authorizing the use thereof , a promise of benefit to worthy receivers . iv. there be onely two sacraments ordained by christ our lord in the gospel , that is to say , baptism and the lords supper ; neither of which may be dispensed by any but by a minister of the word lawfully called . v. the sacraments of the old testament , in regard of the spiritual things thereby signified and exhibited , were for substance the same with those of the new . chap. xxix . of baptism . baptism is a sacrament of the new testament , ordained by jesus christ to be unto the party baptized a sign and seal of the covenant of graee , of his ingraffing into christ , of regeneration , of remission of sins , and of his giving up unto god through jesus christ to walk in newnesse of life ; which ordinance is by christs own appointment to be continued in his church untill the end of the world . ii. the outward element to be used in this ordinance , is water , wherewith the party is to be baptized in the name of the father , and of the son , and of the holy ghost , by a minister of the gospel lawfully called . iii. dipping of the person into the water is not necessary ; but baptism is rightly administred by pouring or sprinkling water upon the person . iv. not onely those that do actually professe faith in , and obedience unto christ , but also the infants of one or both believing parents are to be baptized , and those onely . v. although it be a great sin to contemn or neglect this ordinance , yet grace and salvation are not so inseparably annexed unto it , as that no person can be regenerated or saved without it ; or that all that are baptized , are undoubtedly regenerated . vi . the efficacy of baptism is not tied to that moment of time wherein it is administred , yet notwithstanding , by the right use of this ordinance , the grace promised is not onely offered , but really exhibited and conferred by the holy ghost to such ( whether of age , or infants ) as that grace belongeth unto , according to the counsel of gods own will in his appointed time . vii . baptism is but once to be administred to any person . chap. xxx . of the lords supper . our lord jesus in the night wherein he was betrayed , instituted the sacrament of his body and blood , called the lords supper , to be observed in his churches unto the end of the world , for the perpetual remembrance , and shewing forth of the sacrifice of himself ▪ in his death , the sealing of all benefits thereof unto true believers , their spiritual nourishment , and growth in him , their further ingagement in and to all duties which they owe unto him , and to be a bond and pledge of their communion with him , and with each other . ii. in this sacrament christ is not offered up to his father , nor any reall sacrifice made at all for remission of the sins of the quick or dead , but onely a memorial of that one offering up of himself by himself upon the crosse once for all , and a spiritual oblation of all possible praise unto god for the same ; so that the popish sacrifice of the mass ( as they call it ) is most abominable , injurious to christs own onely sacrifice , the alone propitiation for all the sins of the elect. iii. the lord jesus hath in this ordinance appointed his ministers to pray and blesse the elements of bread and wine , and thereby to set them apart from a common to an holy use , and to take and break the bread , to take the cup , and ( they communicating also themselves ) to give both to the communicants , but to none who are not then present in the congregation . iv. private masses , or receiving the sacrament by a priest , or any other alone , as likewise the denial of the cup to the people , worshipping the elements , the lifting them up , or carrying them about for adoration , and the reserving them for any pretended religious use , are all contrary to the nature of this sacrament , and to the institution of christ . v. the outward elements in this sacrament duly set apart to the uses ordained by christ , have such relation to him crucified , as that truly , yet sacramentally onely , they are sometimes called by the name of the things they represent , to wit , the body and blood of christ ; albeit in substance and nature they still remain truly and onely bread and wine as they were before . vi . that doctrine which maintains a change of the substance of bread and wine into the substance of christs body and blood ( commonly called transubstantiation ) by consecration of a priest , or by any other way , is repugnant not to scripture alone , but even to common sense and reason , overthroweth the nature of the sacrament , and hath been , and is , the cause of manifold superstitions , yea of gross idolatries . vii . worthy receivers outwardly partaking of the visible elements in this sacrament , do then also inwardly by faith , really and indeed , yet not carnally and corporally , but spiritually , receive and feed upon christ crucified , and all benefits of his death ; the body and blood of christ being then not corporally or carnally in , with , or under the bread or wine ; yet as really , but spiritually present to the faith of believers in that ordinance , as the elements themselves are to their outward senses . viii . all ignorant and ungodly persons , as they are unfit to enjoy communion with christ , so are they unworthy of the lords table , and cannot without great sin against him , whilest they remain such , partake of these holy mysteries , or be admitted thereunto ; yea , whosoever shall receive unworthily , are guilty of the body and blood of the lord , eating and drinking judgement to themselves . chap. xxxi . of the state of man after death , and of the resurrection of the deaed . the bodies of men after death return to dust , and see corruption , but their souls ( which neither die nor sleep ) having an immortal subsistence , immediately return to god who gave them . the souls of the righteous being then made perfect in holinesse , are received into the highest heavens , where they behold the face of god in light and glo y , waiting for the full redemption of their bodies : and the souls of the wicked are cast into hell , where they remain in torment and utter darknesse , reserved to the judgment of the great day : besides these two places for souls separated from their bodies , the scripture acknowledgeth none . ii. at the last day such as are found alive shall not die , but be changed , and all the dead shall be raised up with the self-same bodies , and none other , although with different qualities , which shall be united again to their souls for ever . iii. the bodies of the unjust shall by the power of christ be raised to dishonour ; the bodies of the just by his spirit unto honour , and be made conformable to his own glorious body . chap. xxxii . of the last judgment . god hath appointed a day wherein he will judge the world in righteousnesse by jesus christ ▪ to whom all power and judgment is given of the father ; in which day not onely the apostate angels shall be judged , but likewise all persons that have lived upon earth , shall appear before the tribunal of christ , to give an account of their thoughts , words , and deeds , and to receive according to what they have done in the body , whether good or evil . ii. the end of gods appointing this day , is for the manifestation of the glory of his mercy in the eternal salvation of the elect , and of his justice in the damnation of the reprobate , who are wicked and disobedient : for then shall the righteous go into everlasting life , and receive the fulnesse of joy and glory , with everlasting reward in the presence of the lord ; but the wicked who know not god , and obey not the gospel of jesus christ , shall be cast into eternal torments , and be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the lord , and from the glory of his power . iii. as christ would have us to be certainly perswaded that there shall be a judgement , both to deter all men from sin , and for the greater consolation of the godly in their adversity ; so will he have that day unknown to men , that they may shake off all carnal security , and be alwayes watchful , because they know not at what hour the lord will come ; and may be ever prepared to say , come lord jesus , come quickly . amen . of the institvtion of churches ▪ and the order appointed in them by jesus christ . i. by the appointment of the father , all power for the calling , institution , order , or government of the church , is invested , in a supreme ▪ and soveraign manner , in the lord jesus christ , as king and head thereof . ii. in the execution of this power wherewith he is so entrusted , the lord jesus calleth out of the world unto communion with himself , those that are given unto him by his father , that they may walk before him in all the wayes of obedience , which he prescribeth to them in his word . iii. those thus called ( through the ministery the word by his spirit ) he commandeth to walk together in particular societies or churches , for their mutual edification , and the due performance of that publique worship , which he requireth of them in this world . iv. to each of these churches thus gathered , according unto his mind declared in his word , he hath given all that power and authority , which is any way needfull , for their carrying on that order in worship and discipline , which he hath instituted for them to observe , with commands and rules , for the due and right exerting and executing of that power . v. these particular churches thus appointed by the authority of christ , and intrusted with power from him for the ends before expressed , are each of them as unto those ends , the seat of that power which he is pleased to communicate to his saints or subjects in this world , so that as such they receive it immediatly from himsel● vi . besides these particular churches , there is not instituted by christ any church more extensive or ca holique entrusted with power for the administration of his ordinances , or the execution of any authority in his name . vii . a particular church gathered and compleated according to the minde of christ , consists of officers and members : the lord christ having given to his called ones ( united according to his appointment in church-order ) liberty and power to choose persons fitted by the holy ghost for that purpose , to be over them , and to minister to them in the lord . viii . the members of these churches are saints by calling , visibly manifesting and evidencing ( in and by their profession and walking ) their obedience unto that call of christ , who being further known to each other by their confession of the faith wrought in them by the power of god , declared by themselves , or otherwise manifested , do willingly consent to walk together , according to the appointment of christ , giving up themselves to the lord , and to one another by the will of god , in professed subjection to the ordinances of the gospel . ix . the officers appointed by christ to be chosen and set apart by the church so called , and gathered for the peculiar administration of ordinances , and execution of power or duty which he intrusts them with , or calls them to , to be continued to the end of the world , are pastors , teachers , elders and deacons . x. churches thus gathered and assembling for the worship of god ▪ are thereby visible and publique , and their assemblies ( in what place soever they are , according as they have liberty or opportunity ) are therefore church or publique assemblies . xi . the way appointed by christ for the calling of any person , fitted and gifted by the holy ghost , unto the office of pastor , teacher , or elder , in a church , is , that he be chosen thereunto by the common suffrage of the church it self , and solemnly set apart by fasting and prayer , with imposition of hands of the eldership of that church , if there be any before constituted therein : and of a deacon , that he be chosen by the like suffrage , and set apart by prayer , and the like imposition of hands . xii . the essence of this call of a pastor , teacher , or elder unto office , consists in the election of the church , together with his acceptation of it , and separation by fasting and prayer : and these who are so chosen , though not set apart by imposition of hands , are rightly constituted ministers of jesus christ , in whose name and authority they exercise the ministery to them so committed . the calling of deacons consisteth in the like election and acceptation , with separation by prayer . xiii . although it be incumbent on the pastors and teachers of the churches to be instant in preaching the word , by way of office ; yet the work of preaching the word is not so peculiarly confined to them , but that others also gifted and fitted by the holy ghost for it , and approved ( being by lawful ways and means in the providence of god called thereunto ) may publiquely , ordinarily , and constantly perform it ; so that they give themselves up thereunto , xiv . however , they who are ingaged in the work of publique preaching , and enjoy the publique maintenance upon that account , are not thereby obliged to dispense the seals to any other then such as ( being saints by calling , and gathered according to the order of the gospel ) they stand related to , as pastors or teachers ; yet ought they not to neglect others living within their parochial bounds , but besides their constant publique preaching to them , they ought to enquire after their profitting by the word , instructing them in , and pressing upon them ( whether young or old ) the great doctrines of the gospel , even personally , and particularly , so far as their sterngth and time will admit . xv . ordination alone without the election or precedent consent of the church , by those who formerly have been ordained by vertue of that power they have received by their ordination , doth not constitute any person a church-officer , or communicate office-power unto him . xvi . a church furnished with officers ( according to the mind of christ ) hath full power to administer all his ordinances ; and where there is want of any one or more officers required , that officer , or those which are in the church , may administer all the ordinances proper to their particular duty and offices ; but where there are no teaching officers , none may administer the seals , nor can the church authorize any so to do . xvii . in the carrying on of church-administrations , no person ought to be added to the church , but by the consent of the church it self ; that so love ( without dissimulation ) may be preserved between all the members thereof . xviii . whereas the lord jesus christ hath appointed and instituted as a means of edification , that those who walk not according to the rules and laws appointed by him ( in respect of faith and life , so that just offence doth arise to the church thereby ) be censured in his name and authority : every church hath power it it self to exercise and execute all those censures appointed by him , in the way and order prescribed in the gospel . xix . the censures so appointed by christ , are admonition and excommunication : and whereas some offences are or may be known onely to some , it is appointed by christ , that those to whom they are so known , do first admonish the offender in private ; ( in publique offences where any sin , before all ) and in case of non-amendment upon private admonition , the offence being related to the church , and the offender not manifesting his repentance , he is to be duly admonished in the name of christ by the whole church , by the ministery of the elders of the church ; and if this censure prevail not for his repentance , then he is to be cast out by excommun cation with the consent of the church . xx . as all believers are bound to joyn themselves to particular churches , when and where they have opportunity so to do ; so none are to be admitted unto the priviledges of the churches , who do not submit themselves to the rule of christ in the censures for the government of them . xxi . this being the way prescribed by christ in case of offence , no church-members upon any offences taken by them , having performed their duty required of them in this matter , ought to disturb any church-order , or absent themselves from the publique assemblies , or the administrat on of any ordinances upon that pretence , butto wait upon christ in the further proceeding of the church . xxii . the power of censures being seating by christ in a particular church , is to be exercised onely towards particular members of each church respectively as such ; and there is no power given by him unto any synods or ecclesiastical assemblies to excommunicate , or by their publique edicts to threaten excommunication , or other church censures against churches , magistrates , or their people upon any account , no man being obnoxious to that censure , but upon his personal miscarriage , as a member of a particular church . xxiii . although the church is a society of men , assembling for the celebration of the ordinances according to the appointment of christ , yet every society assembling for that end or purpose , upon the account of cohabitation within any civil precincts or bounds is not thereby constituted a church , seeing there may be wanting among them , what is essentially required thereunto ; and therefore a believer living with others in such a precinct , may joyn himself with any church for his edification . xxiv . for the avoiding of differences that may otherwise arise , for the greater solemnity in the celebration of the ordinances of christ , and the opening a way for the larger usefulness of the gifts and graces of the holy ghost ; saints living in one city or town , or within such distances as that they may conveniently assemble for divine worship , ought rather to joyn in one church for their mutual strengthening and edification , then to set up many distinct societies . xxv . as all churches , and all the members of them are bound to pray continually for the good or prosperity of all the churches of christ in all places , and upon all occasions , to further it ; ( every one within the bounds of their places and callings , in the exercise of their gifts and graces ) : so the churches themselves ( when planted by the providence of god , so as they may have opportunity and advantage for it ) ought to hold communion amongst themselves for their peace , increase of love , and mutual edification . xxvi . in cases of difficulties or differences , either in point of doctrine or in administrations , wherein either the churches in general are concerned , or any one church in their peace , union , and edification , or any member or members of any church are injured in , or by , any proceeding in censures not agreeable to truth and order : it is according to the mind of christ , that many churches holding communion together , do by their messengers meet in a synod or council , to consider and give their advice in , or about , that matter in difference , to be reported to all the churches concerned : howbeit , these synods so assembled are not entrusted with any church-power , properly so called , or with any jurisdiction over the churches themselves , to exercise any censures , either over any churches or persons , or to impose their determinations on the churches or officers . xxvii . besides these occasioned synods or councels , there are not instituted by christ any stated synods in a fixed combination of churches , or their officers , in lesser or greater assemblies ; nor are there any synods appointed by christ in a way of subordination to one another . xxviii . persons that are joyned in church-fellowship , ought not lightly or without just cause to withdraw themselves from the communion of the church whereunto they are so joyned : nevertheless , where any person cannot continue in any church without his sin , either for want of the administration of any ordinances instituted by christ , or by his being deprived of his due priviledges , or compelled to any thing in practice not warranted by the word , or in case of persecution , or upon the account of conveniency of habitation ; he , consulting with the church , or the officer or officers thereof , may peaceably depart from the communion of the church , wherewith he hath so walked , to joyn himself with some other church , where he may enjoy the ordinances in the purity of the same , for his edification and consolation . xxix . such reforming churches as consist of persons sound in the faith , and of conversation becoming the gospel , ought not to refuse the communion of each other , so far as may consist with their own principles respectively , though they walk not in all things according to the same rules of church-order . xxx . churches gathered and walking according to the mind of christ , judging other churches ( though less pure ) to be true churches , may receive , unto occasional communion with them , such members of those churches as are credibly testified to be godly , and to live without offence . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a89790e-150 rom. 15. 6 , 8 , 9. ver. 9. this perswasion cometh not of him that calleth you gal. 5. 8. 1 pet. 1. 5. 1 pet. 3. 15. 2 cor. 8. gal. 1. 6. heb. 5. 12. eph. 4. 12. 14. heb. 3. 6. heb. 10. 22. june 20. 1648. aug. 1647. session 786. ordinance of march 14 1645. considerations and cautions from sion coll. jun. 19. 1646. jus divinum min. pub . by the provost of london , in the preface . puritanis . ang. by dr. aims , near 50 years since , as the opinions of whitehead , gilbe , fox , dearing , greenbam , cartwright , venner , fulk , whitaker , rainold , perkins , &c. a modest & brotherly ansvver to mr. charles herle his book, against the independency of churches. wherein his foure arguments for the government of synods over particular congregations, are friendly examined, and clearly answered. together, with christian and loving animadversions upon sundry other observable passages in the said booke. all tending to declare the true use of synods, and the power of congregationall churches in the points of electing and ordaining their owne officers, and censuring their offendors. by richard mather teacher of the church at dorchester; and william tompson pastor of the church at braintree in new-england. sent from thence after the assembly of elders were dissolved that last met at cambridg to debate matters about church-government. mather, richard, 1596-1669. this text is an enriched version of the tcp digital transcription a88947 of text r16954 in the english short title catalog (thomason e37_19). textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. the text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with morphadorner. the annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. this text has not been fully proofread approx. 158 kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from 32 1-bit group-iv tiff page images. earlyprint project evanston,il, notre dame, in, st. louis, mo 2017 a88947 wing m1274 thomason e37_19 estc r16954 99860121 99860121 112228 this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons 0 1.0 universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase 1, no. a88947) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set 112228) images scanned from microfilm: (thomason tracts ; 7:e37[19]) a modest & brotherly ansvver to mr. charles herle his book, against the independency of churches. wherein his foure arguments for the government of synods over particular congregations, are friendly examined, and clearly answered. together, with christian and loving animadversions upon sundry other observable passages in the said booke. all tending to declare the true use of synods, and the power of congregationall churches in the points of electing and ordaining their owne officers, and censuring their offendors. by richard mather teacher of the church at dorchester; and william tompson pastor of the church at braintree in new-england. sent from thence after the assembly of elders were dissolved that last met at cambridg to debate matters about church-government. mather, richard, 1596-1669. tompson, william, d. 1666. [4], 58 p. printed for henry overton in popes-head alley, london : 1644. annotation on thomason copy: the second 4 in 1644 has been crossed out; "march: 15 1643". reproduction of the original in the british library. eng herle, charles, 1598-1659. -independency of scriptures of the independency of churches. congregational churches -government -early works to 1800. councils and synods -england -early works to 1800. a88947 r16954 (thomason e37_19). civilwar no a modest & brotherly ansvver to mr. charles herle his book, against the independency of churches.: wherein his foure arguments for the gove mather, richard 1644 29179 10 25 0 0 0 0 12 c the rate of 12 defects per 10,000 words puts this text in the c category of texts with between 10 and 35 defects per 10,000 words. 2007-03 tcp assigned for keying and markup 2007-03 aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images 2008-09 john latta sampled and proofread 2008-09 john latta text and markup reviewed and edited 2009-02 pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a modest & brotherly ansvver to mr. charles herle his book , against the independency of churches . wherein his foure arguments for the government of synods over particular congregations , are friendly examined , and clearly answered . together , with christian and loving animadversions upon sundry other observable passages in the said booke . all tending to declare the true use of synods , and the power of congregationall churches in the points of electing and ordaining their owne officers , and censuring their offendors . by richard mather teacher of the church at dorchester ; and william tompson pastor of the church at braintree in new-england . sent from thence after the assembly of elders were dissolved that last met at cambridg to debate matters about church-government . london , printed for henry overton in popes-head alley , 1644. reverend and deare sir , the right forme of church government being more searched into of late time then formerly , and your self amongst others having written for the governing power , or jurisdiction of synods , over particular churches : we therfore knowing our selves bound as well as others , to try all things , and hold fast that which is good , have considered as the lord hath holpen us ; those arguments of yours which are contained in your book , against the indepency of churches ; and not being satisfied therewith , your book being published in print ; we have therfore thought meet , in like fort to publish our answer , and in that way to shew unto your self and others , what yet hinders us , that we do not think your arguments to be convincing . in which attempt we have bin the more encouraged by your profession ( which we dare not but believe ) that in what you have written , you have aimed at verity , and not at victory ; wherof we are the rather perswaded , because we do perceive your whole discourse to be carried along without passion and bitternesse , in a spirit of meeknesse and love , which also we are willing to acknowledge before all men , to your just commendation , and the glory of that grace of god that gives you such an heart . and it is our hope , that sith you professe to aim at the truth , and do dispute with such a spirit , as if you meant so indeed ; that therfore it will not be unacceptable to you , if any weaknesse be discovered in those grounds wheron you build this perswasion , that in the present question , the truth doth stand on your side . and as your book doth breathe forth a spirit of meeknesse , ingenuity and love ; so we hope you will find , that we have aimed at the like in our answer ; which as we have written and now published it for the truths sake ; and for the help of those that cannot attaine unto larger , and more learned treatises about this subject ; so in speciall manner in love to your self , and our deare country men & friends , as in other places of lancashire , so in your parish of winwick , wherin one of us was born , and the other was for sundry years together an unworthy minister of the gospel of christ . accept therfore we doe beseech you , this brotherly labour of ours , which here we send you , divided into these few chapters . we are also willing upon this occasion , to testifie our thankfullnes for that loving respect which we found from you , when we lived together in that country ; when you were pleased to own us in our sad times . the father of mercies be with you , and with all those that love the truth in sincerity ; and blesse that reverend and grave assembly , wherof we hear your self are a member , that by their wise and holy indeavours , the truth may be cleared , and all corruptions removed in the doctrine , worship , and church government in england , to his praise and glory ; and the comfort of all those who unfainedly desire that the crowne of christ iesus , and the scepter of the son of god , may be gloriously advanced over all ; which is the prayer of your loving brethren , richard mather , and william tompson . a modest and brotherly answer to mr. charles herle his booke against the independency of churches . chapt. i. containing observations upon sundry passages in your stating the question . the independants ( say you ) deny to a synod as the name of a church , so all manner of power of jurisdiction , either to determine , — , or any way oblige such as they shall any way represent . pag. 2. unlesse it could be proved that in scripture the name of a church is given to a synod , we are not to blamed , though we give not a synod that name , sith we are commanded to hold fast the paterne of the wholsome words of scripture , as sufficient , 2 tim. 1. 13. though for this we will not contend . but for power to determine , viz. dogmatically , or by way of doctrine , this we deny not to a synod : for that synod , act. 15. did put forth such power , and we acknowledge other synods may doe the like upon like occasion , and their determinations being according to the scripture , ought to bind all those whom they represent . they acknowledge that neighbour churches may meet and consult , and advise each other , — and withdraw all fellowship from any one that shall grow pertinaciously scandalous . pag. 2. and you may adde further , that by their messengers being met in a synod they may determine by the scriptures any matter of controversie that may arise . but for matter of jurisdiction or power of the keyes in excommunication , ordination , or whatever censure , they hold it is entirely and onely in every single congregation , though but of 2 or 3 beleevers . p. 2. if any hold so small a number as 2 or 3 to be a church so compleat , as to have power of excommunication , ordination and whatever censure , they may if they see cause declare their grounds for so holding . but for our parts for ought we yet see , a church that hath such power as is here spoken of , had need to be a greater number then two or three , even so many as shall be necessary and requisite for the carrying on of church-worke , in admonition and reprehension of one another , as there shall be cause , and therfore they had need to be seaven or more . for a brother that sinneth must so be dealt withall for his recovery , that if he remain impenitent , the proceeding against him is still to goe on by degrees , till at last the matter be brought unto the church , mat. 18. 15 , 16 17. but in all the degrees of proceeding against him , the persons before whom he is called , are in every latter step and degree more in number , then they were in the former , and so the church being the last is the greatest number of all . and yet there are three at the least that must be acquainted with the matter , before it must be brought unto the church , viz. the brother offending , the brother offended , and one witnesse at the least ; so that the church consisting of those three or foure that deal in the matter before it come into the church , and of another number greater then they , and distinct from them to whom the matter is brought in the last place must needs consist of seaven persons , or more . as for that speech of our sauiour , where he speaks of 2 or 3 gathered together in his name , mat. 18. 20. he doth not thereby acknowledge such a small number to be a church ; but fetcheth an argument from thence as from the lesser or lesse probable , to prove the firm and inviolable authority of the church ▪ and her censures , of which he had spoken before v. 18. as if he should say , if two agreeing together upon earth shal be heard in whatsoever they shall aske , and if i be present with two or three gathered in my name , then much more shall the whole church , who is a greater number , and a more solemne assembly be heard in their prayers , and have christs presence in the midst of them , to bind and loose in heaven what they shall bind or loose in earth . but the former is true , vers. 19. 20 ▪ therefore the latter is true also vers . 18. and for excommunication , ordination and censures , there is nothing in scripture nor proved in this discourse of yours , that these matters belong onely to a synod , and not to a particular congreation ; yea wee conceive it will not bee easie for any man whatsoever to prove , that synods , and they onely have power to ordain officers , and to excommunicate offenders ; and till this be proved , the independants ( as you call them ) need not to relinquish their judgement and practice in these particulars . sure it is , that synod in acts 15. did neither meddle with ordination nor excommunication , but onely determined the controversie about circumcision , and gave rules for practice to be observed of the beleeving gentiles , for avoiding of offence among the jewes . we acknowledge that where there is no consociation or neighbourhood of congregations or single churches whereby they may with conveniency be aiding to each other — and whereto the particulars may have recourse — there a single congregation must not be denied entirenesse of jurisdiction . if you acknowledge thus much , ( which yet is no more then truth requires to be acknowledged , and wherin we for our parts , fully concurre with you ) then we suppose a man may improve this grant of yours to a confirmation of that independencie of churches which you plead against and to a disproving of a good part of that authority of synods which you would establish . for if a church that hath no neighbourhood of other churches ; have power of jurisdiction entirely within it selfe ( as here you doe acknowledge ) then first let it be considered whence such a church hath such power , and see if that ground will not reach to prove the like power in other churches also . now we suppose none will deny , but such a church hath this authority or power by the gift of christ , and the liberty which he hath granted to every church as it is a church , which we had rather expresse in doctor ames his words , then in our own . the power it selfe ( namely , in reproving scandals , and purging out the wicked ) of right , or in respect of the first act , cannot be separated from a true church : because it flows immediately and necessarily from its very essence ; for it is contained in that covenant , whereby beleevers are gathered into a church . cas. cons. lib. 4. cap. 24. q. 4. now if this be so , that power of jurisdiction doth immediately and necessarily flow from the very essence of a church , and so belongs to a church , as it is a church , then it will follow that this power must not be granted to be in such a church as hath no neighbour churches , and be denied unto one that hath : because a church that hath neighbours is a church , and hath the essence of a church , as truly as that which hath none . power of jurisdiction flowing immediately from the essence of a church belongs indifferently to all churches , to one as much as to another , without respect of what neighbours they have , whether many , or few , whether any or none . secondly , let it be considered also what is the end and use of the consociation and neighbourhood of churches , and the same truth will thence appeare also ; which neighbourhood where it is affoorded is from the benefit of churches , but not for their hindrance and losse ; and therefore it may be helpfull by casting in more light , but cannot abridge them of any power which they had before . when doctor ames ( medul . theol. l. 1. c. 39. sect. 27. ) had said that the combination of churches into classes and synods , doth neither constitute a new forme of the church , nor ought by any means to take away or impaire that libertie and power , which christ hath left unto his churches , sith it serveth onely for the directing and furthering of the same , what saith mr. paget hereunto ? this , saith he , we willingly grant ( paget . defence . pa. 107. ) now if this must be granted , then that dependencie of churches , and that power of synods which you plead for must not be granted ; for let a church have entirenesse of jurisdiction before she have any neighbouring churches , and be deprived of the power when god sends such neighbours , and by this meanes she sustaines losse by having neighbours , and comes to be in this respect in worse condition , then when she had none ; which is against the true intent and use of the consociation of churches . moreover , if this grant of yours stand good , then what shall become of that which is intimated , pag. 6. and pa. 10. as a reason against the independency of congregations ? where , you say , that it is against the very light of nature , that the adverse party be the sole judge , and party too in the cause ; and that it is against all equity that the offended party ( meaning the congregation ) should be the sole and finall judge of the offence ? sure we cannot think that there can be such a case imagined wherein you would grant it lawfull for a single congregation to do that which is against all equity and the very light of nature . and yet you grant that the case may be such that a single congregation may have entirenesse of jurisdiction within it self ; which seems to us plainly to prove , that for a congregation to be so independent , as to be the finall judge of offences within it self , is not against all equity , nor against the light of nature , as is intimated by you in the pages afore-mentioned . but sith in one place you grant that in some case a congregation may have entirenesse of jurisdiction within it self , and in another place do seem to imply that it is against all equity , and the light of nature , that they should be granted , we for our parts are not able to discern how these things do stand together . but that too much may not be made of the grant of yours , you do qualifie it in your subsequent words ; wherein you say , that this is a case extraordinarie , and falls not within the compasse of the question , which is about the ordinarie rule of church-government ; whereunto we answer two things . 1 that for a christian congregation to want neighbour congregations , to whom they may with convenience have recourse , is not so unusuall , as some may imagine : specially if the state of things , in times and places of generall persecution , of generall prophanenesse , and of new plantations in heathen countreys be considered . for at those times , and in those places , it is well , if there be any such congregations at all to be found ( as there was one in london , in the dayes of queen mary ) but it is not like there should be so many of them , that any one may have many neighbour ones , to have recourse unto . and your self do intimate in page 43 of your book , that in the remoter part of wales , and of the north , such congregations even at this day , would be so rare , that in all probability , scarce one could be made up in twentie or thirty miles compasse . 2 suppose the case were extraordinarie and rare , would you say that therefore they may violate the ordinarie rules appointed by christ for church administrations , and now lawfully exercise jurisdiction entirely within themselves , which if they had neighbours were unlawfull for them to do ? we suppose it is good to take heed how farre we yeeld it lawfull in such extraordinarie cases , to transgresse and violate ordinarie rules ; left some body do thereupon inferre that though according to ordinarie rules baptisme and the lords supper must be dispensed onely by men , and by ministers , yet in the want of these , the one may be dispensed by a woman , ( suppose the midwife or some other ) and both of them by such as are no ministers . for as you excuse the lawfulnesse of entirenesse of jurisdiction in a single congregation , even so may they excuse these dispensations here mentioned , by saying that the case is extraordinarie , and fals not within the compasse of the question , which is , what persons by ordinarie rule may dispense sacraments ; wherefore for ought we yet see it is more safe to hold , that sith the dispensation of baptisme and the lords supper , by ordinarie rules belongs onely to ministers , therefore there can be no such extraordinarie case , in these dayes , wherein the dispensing of them may lawfully be performed by others whether women or men : and sith entirenesse of jurisdiction must not be denied to a congregation that wants neighbours , therefore the thing is agreeable unto ordinary rules ; and so may be allowed in other cases also . because the administration of sacraments , fore-mentioned , is not allowable by ordinarie rules , therefore the extraordinarinesse of the case will not make it lawfull ; and because the independent jurisdiction of a congregation is lawfull in the case afore-mentioned , which you call extraordinarie ; therefore the same is allowable by ordinarie rule . there ought to be synods or assemblies — with larger power of the keyes to make decrees , ordain pastors , excommunicate members , or congregations , pag. 2. answ. that there ought to be synods when occasion requires , we freely grant ; but the question is not about their being , but about their power ; wherein , that they have power to ordain and excommunicate any , we do not yet see it proved . but that they should excommunicate whole congregations , as here is affirmed , seemeth to us to be altogether impossible ; for a congregation being a church , it hath communion within it self , out of which it cannot be cast , no more then cast out it self . ames . cas. consc. lib. 4. cap. 29. & 11. yet so as in every single congregation , there be left a power , of publick reprehension , and if need be , of suspension of its own members from the lords table ; and in case upon such appeal to the synod , there appear no difficulty in the matter , or partialitie in the carriage of it , it is ( if between members of one congregation ) rather to be remitted to the congregation it self , to be there censured and ended . pa. 2. & 3. this is not much lesse , then a clear granting of the whole cause , for here is expresly left to the congregation not onely power of publick reprehension , but also power of suspension from the lords table , yea , and in some case power of censuring and ending matters within themselves , having first consulted and advised with the synod : which course in matters of difficulty and weight , we for our parts acknowledge very meet to be taken when synods can be had , and when they cannot , yet in such cases of weight , it is fit to consult with neighbour churches . church government ministeriall independents say is equally and fully in every congregation . pa. 3. answ. that it is equally in one , as much as in another , your self do often grant , though not equally in one as much as in all : and for fulnesse , when a church is furnished with a presbytery within it self , by whom the church should be governed , then we know no reason , but yours may be owned also . above and besides which ( namely , the single congregation ) there is no ministerially governing church , by any means they say to be admitted . pag. 3. answ. if the presbytery of a congregation may be called a church , then sith they do admit the governing power of the presbyterie , they do admit a governing church , beside the congregation , if by congregation you mean the whole multitude of the members ; and if a synod may be called a church , and if power by disputation and disquisition to clear up the rule , and then to command obedience thereto , may be called government , then they also admit a synod to be a governing church : for the power here mentioned they do allow unto synods . but it seems to us that the power is not properly a power and exercise of government and jurisdiction , but a power of doctrine , and so a synod is rather a teaching then a governing church . but that any other church , be it synod , or any other besides the congregation and its presbyterie , should have such a governing power above the congregation and the presbyterie thereof , as that neither the congregation nor its presbyterie may ordain their own officers , nor excommunicate their own offendors , but both must be done by that other governing church ; this we do not admit indeed , because hitherto , we have seen no convincing proofs for the same . all and every member hath ( say they ) a governing power , as of ordaining their pastors and officers , so of deposing and excommunicating — . pa. 3. governing properly so called , we acknowledge not in any , but in the elders alone . 1 cor. 12. 28. rom. 12. 8. hebr. 13. 17. if that word be ascribed to the people , it must be understood in a more improper sence , for that which in propriety of speech were more fitly called liberty or priviledge . and yet the liberty when it is exercised about ordination , deposition , excommunication , is of the whole body communiter , or in generall , but not of all and everie member in particular , as you conceive us to hold ; for women and children are members , and yet are not to act in such matters , the one being debarred by their sex , and the other for want of understanding and discretion . we acknowledge that pastors and other officers were anciently , and it is to be wished , thoy still were chosen ( at least consented to ) by the members of each respective congregation . p. 3. by [ anciently ] we suppose you mean , in the primitive , and apostolick times ; and if in these times they were chosen by the congregation , what warrant can there be to take another course in these dayes ; sith the ancient pattern of scripture in matters of this nature is a commandment that ought to be kept till the appearing of jesus christ . 1 tim. 6. 13 , 14. &c. but they are to be ordoined in a synod onely — . that a synod hath the power , we would gladly see it proved by the word . but if these things may be done by a synod onely and not elsewhere , then how will that stand which you granted in the page afore , that in some case a single congregation may have entirenesse of jurisdiction within it self ? to be done by a synod onely , and to be done by a single congregation entirely within it self , are not easie for us to reconcile . further , if synods consist , as you say , of presbyteries and other commissioners , then there must be presbyters afore there can be synods ; and thence it must follow that all presbyters are not ordained by synods , but some by other men . if it be said though the presbyters , whereof the particular synod consisteth , were not ordained by the synod , but were presbyters before this synod had any being , yet they might be ordained by a former synod ; the answer is that this doth not remove the difficultie . for still it would be enquired how the presbyters of that former synod , and so of the first synod that ever was , how they came to be presbyters : sure if the first synod consisted of presbyters , then there were presbyters before there was any synod , and so presbyters have been lawfully ordained , and not by a synod . in a synod where all the ultimate power of decrees and censures resides — . answ. by power of decrees , we understand power to clear up the truth dogmatically , for the word translated decrees is dogmata in the originall , act. 16. 4. and this power we confesse is in a synod , though not all in the synod alone , but also in the presbyterie of a single congregation . but for power of censures , this we do not see to be in the synod at all ; much lesse , that it doth all reside in the synod , and not elsewhere . but when you say , all the ultimate power of these things doth reside in a synod ( though you do imply by the word ultimate that matters ought not to be perpetually depending , but in some judicatory or other be brought unto their ultimate or last period , and conclusion , wherein we concurre with you , yet neverthelesse ) your meaning is not sufficiently expressed , what synod this should be that should have this ultimate power . for you know there are divers sorts of synods , some particular which are called classes , some provinciall , some nationall , and some generall , or oecumenicall synods ; and we should be glad to know , which of all these it is in whom the ultimate power of these things doth reside , and why it may not reside in any of the rest ; yea and why the ultimate power of censures may not reside in the congregation , as well as in any of them . whether it be necessarie to the well being of a single church or congregation , that where it stands in neighbourhood with other churches , it be equally and mutually coordinated with the rest , in a dependance on the ministeriall government of a synod ? this they deny , and we affirm . pa. 4. ans. by ministeriall government of a synod ; you meane , a governing power of ordaining pastors for congregations , and of excommunicating offendors ; for so you describe the power of synods , pag. 3. and pag. 2. where you say that pastors are to be ordained , deposed , excommunicated by a synod onely ; and that synods have a larger power of the keyes to make decrees , ordain pastors , and excommunicate members , or congregations ; so that the question is : whether it be necessarie to the well-being of a single congregation that hath neighbours , so to depend , on the government of synods , as that a synod onely and not the congregation , must ordain their pastors , and excommunicate offendors : which being the state of the question , we are content to joyn issue with you , upon the same ; and to hear your arguments for the affirmative part . chap. ii. containing an answer to your first argument taken from the manner of government , in the jewish church , laid down . deut. 17. 8 , 9 , 10. 2 chron. 19. 8. 10 , 11. psal. 122. 4 , 5. that the government of the jewish church was by gods institution nationall , and dependent , as it clearly appears by the above mentioned texts , so it is fully confessed by mr. aynsworth , mr. davenport , mr. canne , mr. robinson , and generally all judgements . pag. 4. answ. in some of the places of these authors which you direct us unto in your margent , which we have looked upon , we can find no such confession as here you do report of them . it may be the pages are mis-printed . but what they do confesse or not confesse , we will not stand long to enquire , such of them as are yet alive , may answer for themselves , if they see cause : but it shall suffice us , to consider the weight of the argument it self , which we suppose being put into form must run thus , or to the like purpose . as the congregations in israel were dependent , so must congregations be in these dayes . but congregations in israel were dependent on the ministeriall government of a synod : therefore congregations in these dayes must be dependent on the ministeriall government of a synod . indeed in your prosecution of the argument , you do not expresly mention any ministeriall government of a synod in israel , upon which their congregations did depend : yet we conceive that must needs be your meaning ; because otherwise the argument which you bring , doth not reach to conclude the thing in question , even as the question is stated by your selfe . for in the words immediatly preceding this first argument , you thus summe up and conclude your stating the question , viz. whether it be necessary — that a single congregation , where it stands in neighbourhood with other churches , should be co-ordinated with the rest in a dependency on the ministeriall government of a synod . and having answered affirmatively , you then bring in this for your first argument , taken from the manner of government in the jewish church , laid down in the texts above mentioned . now if that be the question , as you lay it down , and this the argument for the affirmative part , then sith the question is about dependance on the government of a synod , the argument must needs be of the same , or else nothing in question is concluded . and if the argument must conclude the question , then it must be laid down to the like purpose as we have done ; and being so formed , our answer is by denying both parts thereof . for neither is it clear from those texts , that the congregations in israel did depend on the ministeriall government of a synod ; nor will it follow that ours must be dependant as theirs were . touching the former of these , ( to speak first of the minor proposition ) suppose it were true that the congregations in israel did depend upon the government of the judicatories or assemblies mentioned in those texts , yet that doth not prove they depended upon a synod : and the reason is , because the judicatories there mentioned , were not any synods at all , but assemblies of another nature . for first , synods ( as your selves describe them pag , 2. ) are assemblies , consisting of the severall pastors , whom together with such other members as should be thought fit , the several congregations are respectively to chuse & send therto . but those judicatories in deut. 17. and the other scriptures , did not consist of any pastors or members , whom the severall congregations did chuse , and send thereto ; but of the priests and levites , of the judges and chiefe of the fathers of israel , which were constantly resident at jerusalem , the place which the lord had chosen . and the severall congregations had nothing to do either to chuse them , or send them . secondly , these jndicatories at jerusalem were standing courts , and were constantly to continue , and therefore they were not synods ; for synods are not wont to stand and continue , but onely till they have ended the businesse which was the occasion of calling them , and then to be dissolved and ended . thirdly , mr. page ( out of whom it seems this argument , and much of the discourse about it , is taken ) doth confesse , pag. 3. that the authority of classes and synods , is not civill , neither have they power to inflict civill pnnishments , they onely judge of ecclesiasticall causes , and that in ecclesiasticall manner , using no other then spirituall censures , in pag. 29. of his defence . but the judicatories in these texts ( as mr. paget also confesseth pag. 34. 35. ) were for civill causes as well as ecclesiasticall ; and so it is said , deut. 21. 5. that by the word of the priests and levites every controversie and every stroke mast be tried even in civill causes , as that of trying out an uncertain murther , which is the cause spoken of in that place . by all which it plainly appeares , that those superior judicatories in israel were not synods ; and then suppose their congregations did depend upou those judicatories , and that ours must depend as theirs did , yet it will not follow that ours must depend upon synods . and thus your minor failing , this might be enough to take away the whole strength of your argument . neverthelesse , for further answer , we may also deny the consequence of your major proposition : for though it were yeelded , that the congregations in israel did depend upon a superiour judicatory , it will not follow that it must be so in these dayes : and our reason is , because the particular congregations in israel ( viz. their synagogues ) were not compleat churches , as the congregations in the new testament are . that they were not entire and compleat churches , may appear by this , because the people could not lawfully in them have the use of the most solemne ordinances of god , and par●s of his worship , though such as were of ordinary and continuall use , but they must goe upto jerusalem for the performing and enjoyment thereof ; and therefore they wete strightly commanded , as not to keep the passover , so not to offer any offerings or sacrifices ( which yet were of very frequent use ) in any place within any of their gates , but onely in jerusalem , the place which god did chuse to put his name there , as we read at large deut. 12. and 16. 5 , 6. neither was it lawfull for the chiefe ministers of the church to execute the chiefe parts of their office in those synagogues , but only at jerusalem . but now with congregations in these dayes it is farre otherwise ; there is none of the solemne ordinances of god , which are of ordinarie and continuall use , but in these congregations , they may be enjoyed , nor any ordinarie duties of the ministery , but in them they may be performed , as preaching , prayer , sacraments , discipline , &c. which shews they are entire churches within themselves . dr. ames hath the saying . the synagogues were not compleat churches , because the whole worship of god , and all the sacred communion prescribed at that time , could not be exercised in them . med. theol. lib. 1. ca. 38. thes. 37. and again , there is nothing read in all the new testament , of the institution of any greater church , on which the lesser should depend : nor any worship or sacred ordinance prescribed , which is not to be observed in every congregation : nor any ordinary minister appointed who is not given to some one assembly of this kind . lib. 1. cap. 39. thes. 26. now if their congregations could not enjoy all the ordinances , as not being compleat churches , there might be reason why they should be dependent upon jerusalem , and the synedrion and temple there , where the ordinances might be enjoyed ; and yet ours being compleat , and enjoying al the ordinances within themselves need not to be so dependent . and another reason why their congregations might be dependent , and ours not so , may be this . they had a superiour judicatory to appeal unto which had the supremum of church power within it self , and from whose sentence there was no appeal to any further judge upon earth ; for so it is said of that synedrion at jerusalem . deut. 17. and reason requires that some such supream judicatory there should be ; for controversies & cases of doubt must not be drawn out in infinitum , but of necessity standum est in aliquo supremo , we must rest in some supreame , and proceed no further . but now in the new testament , if we once depart from a particular congregation or church , where or when shall we find such a supremum ? surely not before we come to an oecumenicall or generall councell : for as for classicall , provinciall , and nationall synods there is none of these , but those cases which you put of deficiency , and possibility of partiality may befall the best of them ▪ and therefore if for these causes the single congregations , must not be independent , but there must be appeals from them , the synods being subject to the like , there must be liberty of appeals from them also . for like as you do alledge that congregations may be partiall , and erre , so we suppose it will not be denied but the classis may erre , the provinciall synod may erre , the nationall may erre : and therefore by this reason entirenesse of jurisdiction must be granted to none of these . and then whither shall we go but to a generall councill , which as it hath not been seen for many by past generations , so god knows whether ever there shall be any so long as this world shall endure . but how if the generall councill do erre also ? sure learned doctor reynolds doth abundantly clear it , that such a thing is not impossible . thes. 2. sect. 15. and so by this reason entirenesse of jurisdiction must not be granted to generall councils , but there must be liberty of appeals from them also . such consequences do inevitably follow upon that which you suggest as a ground of appealing from particular congregations . and by all this it appeareth , that particular congregations , have no such superiour judicatory above them , but according to your grounds , there may be liberty of appeals from the same ; and thence it followeth that there is not the like reason , against their independency , as against the independency of the synagogues in israel : because those synagogues had a judicatorie above them , from which there was no appeal . those may be dependent which have others above them , which are supreame ; whereas they which have no such above them may be supreame themselves , and consequently be independent . obj. if any shall here ask whether we think it not possible for particular congregations to erre in their judgement of causes ? we answer , that we confesse they may ; but in our judgement that needs not to hinder , but they may have entirenesse of jurisdiction within themselves , and not be under the power of any other . for that supreame synedrion at jerusalem did many times erre , and gave corrupt judgement in causes , and yet was not under the power of any other judicatory . when we are enquiring in what judicatory , the supremum of church-power doth lye , it is not our best course to look for such an one as cannot erre : for such an one we shall never find , but to look out where god hath appointed it to lie , and therewith to rest contented : now in the old testament this supremum by gods appointment , was in that synedrion at jerusalem . but in the new testament we know of no appointment of god , that the like supremum must be in a synod ; but for ought we know a particular congregation may be answerable to that synedrion , as well as any classis or synod ; and so much the rather , because the power in a particular congregation , is constant , and alwayes ready to be had , as it was in that synedrion ; whereas classes and synods are more seldome and rare , and cannot be gathered so often as there may be need of the use of church power , in regard of ordaining of officers , or censuring of offenders , and the like . therefore briefly to wind up all , sith congregations in the new testament , are compleat churches , which the jewish synagogues were not ; and sith the synagogues had a supreame judicatory above them , from which there was no appeale , which our congregations have not : therefore we conclude , that the dependencie of the synagogues upon that superiour judicatory , doth not prove that our congregations must depend upon the government of a synod , especially this being considered withall , that the judicatory upon which the synagogues did depend , was not any synod , but an assembly of another nature : and though the supremacie must be some where , even where god hath appointed it to be , yet the particular congregations may shew as much for that appointment , as the synod . and this shall suffice for answer to this first argument : onely we will adde some observations upon some few passages in that which you write for removall of three exceptions which you say are given by some against this argument of yours . 1. that that government was ccremoniall and typicall . 2. that papists alledge it against us for their hierarchy and appeales to — the pope . 3. that the priests and levites were then judges in civill causes , wherin it was that the government was then appealative and dependent , pag. 5. if any doe make such exceptions , we leave it to them that make them , to undertake the defence of them , or to cleare them as they shall see cause . but for us , the answer we have given to the argument , is that wherein we do rest . that there ought to be one high-priest , in whom all appeales and judgements were to determine . pag. 6. though there was to be one high-priest among the jewes , yet that all appeals and judgements were to determine in him , we suppose is more then can be proved . sure mr. paget pag. 35 , 36. ( whom you seem in your discourse much to follow ) doth say , that the judgement spoken of , deut. 17. was not given by the high-priest alone , but by a colledge or senate of priests , noted in the text , and approveth the judgement of doctor reynolds and doctor whitaker , giving this answer as a just refutation of the papists , arguing from this text to prove there should bee one supreme judge of ecclesiasticall causes . that there ought to be graduall judicatories wherein the aggrieved party may appeale from the lesser to the higher — there can be no ceremony or type in this — this was taught by the light of nature to jethro — appeals ( saith doctor whitaker ) are of divine and naturall right . pag. 6. if this bee meant in civill causes , where more is left to the light of nature and civill prudence , according to the general rules of the word , the word not determining all particulars so fully , as it doth in ecclesiasticall matters ; then we for our parts doe fully consent thereto . and though it were extended to ecclesiasticall causes also , yet this we suppose is cleare likewise by the same light of nature , that both for civill causes and ecclesiasticall , there must be some finall and supreame judgement , that controversies may not by appeales after appeals be spun out in infinitum . now unlesse it be determined where that supremacie doth lie ( which is the very thing in question ) the usefulnesse and necessity of appeals may be granted , and yet we shall be still at uncertainty about the thing in question , and as much to seek as before . that there ought to be appeals till you come to the highest , is one thing , and that a synod ( and not a particular congregation ) is the highest , is another ; and they are so farre different , that though the first were granted , yet the latter is not thereby proved . that renowned martyr cranmer , the forme of his appeale to a councell , three times by him urged — we have recorded by mr fox at large pag. 6. but how this example doth suit the present question , we doe not understand : for his appeal was not from a particular congregation , but from the pope ; nor was it to a synod , but to the next generall councell , which from that day to this , hath not yet assembled , nor been called . if we must hold a necessity of appeales to such a judicatory as cranmer appealed unto , then the supremacie of synods , provinciall or nationall , is utterly taken away . generally all that write against appeals to the pope , acknowledge yet their necessary usefulnesse to a synod ; so did that reverend martyr cranmer , — so ( besides the whole stream of antiquity ) ursin , zepperus , and to come neerer , cartwright , fenner , nay barrow , ainsworth , johnson , pag. 6. we doubt it is a speech a good deale too large , to say , that all these doe acknowledge the necessary usefulnesse of appeales to a synod , especially if ▪ you mean of such appeales as you must needs mean , or else you speak not to the question in hand ; viz. of appeals from a particular congregation . we have looked upon some of the places , and doe perswade our selves that if you doe look upon them also , you will finde this speech of yours to be too excessive . as for mr. paget , who ( pag. 39. 40. ) alledgeth all these very places that you doe alledge , he doth not say that those authours doe all acknowledge such necessary usefulnesse of appeals to a synod , as you doe report them to acknowledge ; nor doth alledge them for that end , but for another purpose , viz. to shew , that in these dayes we may alledge and argue from texts out of the law of moses , and other places of the old testament , which if it be rightly done , we for our parts see no reason to disallow . but that all these authors , even barrow and ainsworth doe acknowledge the necessary usefulnesse of appeales from particular congregations to the government of synods , is so large an expression , as wee know not upon what grounds to think it credible ; sith it is well knowne to them that have read their writings , that they acknowledge no ecclesiasticall judicatory superiour to that of a particular congregation . if the benefit of appeals and consociation of churches , to their mutuall help in government , should not be as free to us as to the jewes , how much more defective and improvident were the gospel , then the law ? pag. 7. consociation of churches for mutuall help , we willingly acknowledge , so that this consociation may neither constitute a new form of a church , nor take away or impair the liberty and power which christ hath given to churches ; but serve onely according to the true use thereof , for the directing and guiding of the same : which proviso ( as we said before ) mr. paget doth willingly grant . and for appeals , we do willingly acknowledge any benefit that may come thereby : but for making the gospel more defective then the law ; we conceive if things be well considered , it is not our way , but yours , that will be found justly culpable , in this respect . for first , as the jews had a supreame judicatory for the finall ending of causes , so we hold the same in a particular congregation . whereas according to your opinion and grounds , we know not where or when to find such a judicatory , but there must be appeals upon appeals , from the congregation to the classis , from a classis to a provinciall synod , and from them to a nationall , and from that to an oecumenicall ; and by this means causes may be so protracted , as not to receive any determination for many generations , yea it may be never while this world doth endure . secondly , as with them there was a standing judicatorie alwaies in readinesse for the hearing of causes , so we hold the like in the particular congregation : whereas synods are not alwaies in readinesse , but so seldome , that if they had supreme power to determine , yet causes ma● be long depending , before a synod can be called for the determining of them . thirdly , whereas the supreame judicatorie at jerusalem , being but one in all the world , was verie farre remote from all proselites , that lived in other countreys ( as the eunuch of ethiopia , act. 8. ) yea farre remote from those jews , that dwelt in the furthest parts of the holy land ; god hath provided better for us in regard that congregations wherein we place the supreame church power being many in number , a christian may have the use of that power with much more conveniencie , then was affoarded to most jews and proselites in those daies ; but as for synods , as they are for time more seldome , then that synedrion , so they are to many persons no lesser remote in place . by all which it doth appear , that the doctrine of the independents ( as you call them ) doth in some things make us equall to the jews , and in other things , doth make our condition more excellent then theirs ; whereas according to your way , that are against independencie , in many things our condition is made more defective then theirs . how were our saviour king of peace and righteousnesse , should he have ordained now under the gospel , such a government as — were neither righteous nor peaceable ? pa. 7. that our blessed saviour is king of righteousnesse and peace , and the church government which he hath ordained both righteous and peaceable , is such a certain and divine truth , that it were blasphemous wickednesse to doubt of it ; but when the question is , what government christ hath ordained , it is better arguing to say , this government the scripture doth witnesse to be ordained of christ , and therefore it is righteous and peaceable , then to say , this government is not righteous nor peaceable , and therefore not ordained of christ . we meane plainly thus , that it is more agreeable to religious sobrietie and humilitie , to search out by scripture-grounds , what government christ hath ordained , and when that is once found , then to conclude from thence , the righteousnesse and peaceablenesse of the same ; rather then on the other side , to think with our selves what government to naturall reason seems righteous and peaceable , and thence to gather what is ordained or not ordained of christ , your self have a saying p. 9. that laws meerly positive are therefore laws because commanded . and why may not we say in like sort , this or that form of church government , is therefore peaceable and righteous , because ordained , sith this or that form is by the positive law of christ . but ( say you ) how can that government be peaceable and righteous , where parties are made sole judges ? suppose the greater number of members in a congregation be against the pastor and elders . pag. 7. answ. it is not unrighteous nor unpeaceable in it self that they should be judges , whom the god of all righteousnesse and peace hath appointed so to be . nor is it reasonable , that they should be thrust out of the office , whereto god hath appointed them , under this pretence , that they are parties ; for if good care be not taken how farre we give way to such alledgements , we may lay a foundation for weakning , if not utterly evacuating , the authoritie of all supreame judicatories whatsoever . for as you alledge against the congregation , that they may be divided amongst themselves , and then if matters be ended there , parties are made judges , ( viz. the major part against the minor ) so the very same may be said of a synod , where controversies may arise , as well as in a congregation : and if congregations must not determine matters arising within themselves , because parties must not be judges ; then by the same reason matters arising in a synod , must not be determined by a synod ; and so the synod unto whom , you would have matters carried from the congregation , must be no more independent , then the congregation it self , from whom they are carried . yea , by this reason , that supreame synedrion among the jews , must have been dependent also . for it is plain , that sometimes that synedrion was divided into parts among themselves , as in that famous instance , act. 23. where the division of the councill was the means of paul's escape . finally , there is not any supreme judicatory upon earth , neither civill nor ecclesiasticall , but if they consist of many persons , and be not absolute and meere monarchies consisting of one alone , the members thereof may be divided among themselves , and yet they must be the finall judges to determine matters within themselves , if the matters must be determined at all : so that this which you seeme to reject as an absurditie , that parties should be judges , is in some cases ( and namely when the supreme judicatory is divided into parts about matters arising among themselves ) a matter of unavoidable necessity , and cannot be otherwise . this communion and mutuall assistance in government , — god as by his word , so by the very light of nature , teacheth all societies whatever , whether common-wealths , or armies , vniversities or navies , pag. 7. answ. either this passage means that all common-wealths , &c. are taught such communion and assistance in government with other common-wealths , &c. as that none of them have entirenesse and supremacie of jurisdiction within themselves , but are dependant on other the like societies for the same ; or else that the members and parts of a common-wealth , &c. are taught such communion and assistance in government , as not to be entire of themselves , but to depend upon the whole society of which they are members and parts . if it be taken in the latter sense , then the thing is most true , but no prejudice to our cause at all , for we grant the same of the parts and members of a congregationall church , &c. but it must be taken in the former sense , if it make any thing against us ; and in this sense it will not hold true : for it is well known , that common-wealths and universities , as the common-wealth of england for example , and the university of oxford , have no such communion and assistance in government , with other common-wealths and other universities , but that they have entirenesse of jurisdiction within themselves ; and the same may be said of armies and navies . the members of all these societies doe depend on the societie of which they are members : but that is nothing against us . if the societies did depend upon other the like societies , this indeed were against us . but this cannot be proved so to be . not that therefore this government of churches should as those end in a monarchy on earth . answ. we suppose it is a clear mistake , to say that the government in all those societies , doth end in a monarchy : for whatever may be said of the rest , common-wealths you know there are sundry , whose government is either democraticall or aristocraticall , and doth not end in any monarchy at all ; witnesse for example the low countreys . but if churches must be dependent upon the government of synods , because the very light of nature teacheth a communion and assistance in government to all societies whatever ; then we see not how it will be avoyded , but by the same reason churches must end in a monarchy upon earth , if it were once proved , that the light of nature doth teach all societies whatever so to end : for there is as good reason for this as for the other . and the old plea for bishops and popes , ut capite constituto schismatis occasio tolleretur , will not be easily avoyded . if we yeeld thus much that what the light of nature teacheth other societies , the same must be observed in the government of churches . you say indeed that this will not follow , because the churches monarch or head is in heaven , and such an one , as though in heaven , yet still present by his word and spirit here on earth too , to all the offices of a monarch . pag. 7. but this we conceive doth not remove the difficultie , partly , because the objection is for a visible head , and not an invisible ; and partly because the time hath been when there was one high-priest upon earth , in whom you say ( pag. 6. ) that all appeals and judgements were to determine : and yet at that time the monarch or head of the church was in heaven , and present on earth too by his word and spirit , to all the offices of a monarch , as truly then as now . whereby we may see , that if you will goe by the light of nature , it is not the presence of christ in heaven , and his spirituall and invisible presence with his church on earth , that will take away the necessity of a visible head upon earth . a surer answer to this plea , is to flye to the institution and appointment of god , whose wisedome and will it was to appoint one high priest upon earth in former times , but hath not done the like in these dayes . chap. iii. containing an answer to the second argument taken from matth 18. tell the church . that this is spoken by our saviour in reference to the jewish church-government , — is the joynt judgement of ambrose , theodoret , — among the ancient : melanchton , strigetius , peretius , aretius , — and even mr. johnson himselfe . — and if so , then our saviour here sufficiently confirmes to us as lawfull , and conveyes to us as usefull so much of the jewish church-government as includes an independencie and liberty of appe des therein . pag. 9 , 10. answ. by dependencie here spoken of , must be meant dependencie upon the government of a synod ; and by appeal must be meant appeale from a particular congregation unto that synod , or otherwise the argument concludes besides the question : and the words being thus understood , the forme of the argument must be to this purpose , viz. if that which is here spoken by our saviour , be spoken in reference to the jewish church-government , then particular congregations must depend upon the government of synods . but the first is true : therefore the second is true also . but for confirmation of this minor proposition , you bring no other proofe but onely the testimonies of a number of authours , all cited before by mr. paget in his defence , pag. 46 , 47 , &c. and for the consequence of your major you bring no proofe at all . neverthelesse we are willing to consider what strength there may be in the argument , and to that purpose we must enquire into your meaning in this phrase of reference to the jewish church-government , whereby we conceive you intend one of these two , either that the word church in our saviours rule , tell the church , doth signifie the elders and governours alone , as sometimes the like word is used in the old testament ; or else that no new rule is prescribed hereby our saviour , but the very same that was formerly given to the jews . mr. paget , who also takes his second argument from this place of mat. 18. doth understand our saviours words in this later sense . but whether way soever you intend , our answer is briefly thus : first , that though we will not now deny the minor proposition , yet this we may say , that it is not so evident of it self , but that it needs some better proof then by you is given for the confirmation of it ; for of it self it is not clear , that by church is meant onely the elders of the church , nor that all the steps of such graduall proceeding as our saviour doth prescribe , were formerly commanded to the jews . and your self professing in your epistle to the gentlemen , prefixed before your book , that you like d. moulins resolution , rather to bring one argument then ten authors , if accordingly you had confirmed this minor proposition with some further proof then onely the names of authors , it could have given better satisfaction . but what ever become of the minor , the consequence of the major may justly be denied . for though it were granted that our saviours words , tell the church , were spoken with reference to the jewish church-government in this sence , that this graduall proceeding in all the steps of it was formerly commanded to the jews , yet this is nothing to prove the necessitie of the dependance of congregations upon the government of synods , ( which is our question ) because there may be such graduall proceedings to the fulfilling of our saviours rule , without any use of a synod at all . if it were not so , synods had need to be more frequent then they are , or ever were , or are ever like to be , for this rule of our saviour is of very frequent use . and though it were granted also , that by church , our saviour meant the elders ( which is the other sense of your words of reference to the jewish church-government ) yet neither would this prove the dependence of congregations upon the government of synods , because there may be and ought to be elders , and an eldership or presbyterie in every particular congregation , and by telling those elders that rule may be observed , if our saviours words were taken in that sence . and indeed it seems your self do so understand them , as appears in pag. 17. of your book , and likewise in this place now in hand , because one of those authors whom you alledge for the meaning of our saviours words , is mr. johnson , who in his latter times , did so understand them , of whom you say , even mr. johnson himself though a pastor of separatists in a peculiar treatise reduceth himself from his former error in the contrary opinion , to this judgement too . wherby it seems , that for the meaning of this text , you concurre in opinion or judgement with mr. johnson . and if so , then though you may by church understand the elders as he did , yet then you must also acknowledge the independency of particular congregations and the pastors thereof ; for it is certain and plain that mr. johnson was of that opinion and judgement too , notwithstanding that his exposition of matth. 18. and did never reduce himself to this opinion , that congregations must be dependent upon the government of synods , which is your plea . for which purpose you may consider what is to be seen in his christian plea , which was one of the last books that ever he wrote . now in pag. 250 , 251. of that book are these words , viz. seeing now every particular constituted church hath right and power within it self to celebrate the lords supper , which is answerable to the passeover that was kept at jerusalem , this sheweth that now every particular church is to be esteemed as jerusalem , and so to stand immediately under jesus christ the arch-pastor of his sheep , and high priest of our profession . and again , all particular churches with their pastors do stand immediately under jesus christ the arch-pastor without any strange ecclesiasticall power and authoritie interposed between , whether it be of the prelates , or of their unlawfull usurping synods , or any such like — . and in the words following , speaking how all churches , and the ministers of them , should be readie and willing to help and advise one another , he addeth thus : viz. and so to this end , and in this manner , may be had a lawfull and profitable use of synods , classes , &c. for mutuall help and advise , so as alwaies it be provided that they do not challenge or usurp any unlawfull jurisdiction or power over the particular churches , or their pastors and governours . by which words it plainly appeareth , that though mr. johnson by church in matth. 18. did understand the elders , yet he never held that particular churches , and the elders thereof , should depend upon the government of synods , but be immediately under the government and authoritie of jesus christ , and depend no other way upon synods but onely for their advise and counsell : and therefore his exposition of matth. 18. will stand you in no stead to prove the dependance of particular churches upon synods . wherefore to wind up our answer to this argument . though it were granted that when our saviour saith , tell the church , he means tell the elders , and though it were granted also that enjoying such a graduall proceeding , he prescribeth no new rule , but the same that had been given before unto the jews , yet neither of these do prove that congregations must depend upon the authoritie of synods ; and the reason is , because both these may be performed in a particular congregation ; for therein a man may proceed by such steps and degrees as our saviour enjoyneth , and may also tell his matter to the elders of that particular church . and so the consequence of your major proposition failing , the whole argument must fail also , though the minor were never so strongly proved : and how much more when the minor is left so weak , neither of these particulars being sufficiently cleared and made good by you , that by church is meant the elders , nor that all that our saviour in that place prescribeth , was before commanded to the jews . but inasmuch as your words are , that this of matth. 18. is spoken by our saviour christ in reference to the jewish church-government before urged , therefore we may give a further answer to this argument , out of that which before hath been answered when the argument from the jewish church-government was urged . for though it were granted that christ speaks in reference to that government , yea though it were granted ( which we suppose none will affirm ) that all that was used among the jews is here prescribed by christ , yet all this were too short to prove that our congregations must depend upon the government of synods , unlesse it could be proved that the jewish congregations did so depend , which we have formerly shewed to be otherwise , the great synedrion at jerusalem upon which their lesser congregations did depend , if they were dependent at all , being not any synod , but an assembly of another nature . but you will improve this text further ; and therefore after some speech of an indefinite proposition in logick , and an indefinite command in divinitie , and of five graduall iffs in our saviours words , if he shall offend , &c. you come thus to argue , viz. the remedie of complaint or appeal must be as large as the malady offence , otherwise christs salve were not equall to the sore : but offences may arise as well between divers congregations in the same church , as between divers members in the same congregation , and therefore particular congregations as well as members have hereby liberty to complain and appeal to a more generall judgement for redresse . and a little after : that such offences may arise between churches as well as members , appears by that between the graecians and hebrews about the neglect of their widows , act. 6. 1. and that in such cases they may complain and implead each other , appears by that of the prophet hosea 2. 2. even the daughter church with the mother . pag. 10. to all which we thus answer . first , though we deny not but offences may arise betweene churches as well as members , yet we do not see that those instances alledged by you from act. 6. and hos. 2. do sufficiently prove the same ; because those graecians and hebrews , act. 6. might be all of one and the same church and congregation which was at jerusalem , and not two congregations or churches , the graecians one and the hebrews another , as it seems you do conceive of them . for when the apostles upon occasion of this murmuring of the graecians for the neglect of their widows , did take course for the appointing of deacons for the remedying thereof , the whole managing of the businesse was transacted and done in one congregation alone ; for so it is said , they called the multitude of disciples together , vers. 2. they appointed them to look out seven men duely qualified whom they might appoint over that businesse , v. 3. and the saying pleased the whole multitude , who thereupon did chuse seven whom they presented unto the apostles , ver. 5 , 6. and the apostles imposed hands on them , ver. 6. in all this there is no hint of two congregations , one of graecians and another of hebrews , but the text seemeth plain enough , that the whole multitude of disciples whether graecians or hebrews were all gathered together into one congregation about the choice and ordaining of these deacons . and as for hos. 2. 2. plead with your mother , plead , sith there is no mention in that scripture of any daughter church , nor of any two churches at all ; and sith at that time there was only one church upon the face of the earth , even the nationall church of the jewes , therefore we cannot see how this text can be any proofe of churches complaining and impleading one another . if any man think otherwise , and that the daughter-churches did plead against the mother-church of israel that is here spoken of , then we would demand what or where was that superiour judicatory , be it synod or any other , before which they did plead , and before whom the mother-church of israel must answer for herselfe , when the daughter-churches did complain against her . we suppose none will affirme there was any such : and therefore this text can be no ground for churches impleading one another . but the true meaning of the place is thus much , not that one church must plead against another , but that the godly members of the church of israel must plead against the corruptions of that very church , though in respect of them she were as a mother , and they as children . and before whom must they plead ? not before any other judge upon earth , but before the lord of heaven , and unto her own face , laying open her abominations , and shewing unto her , her sins : and we acknowledge the members of any other church may doe the like , if there be the like occasion , so that they keep themselves within the bounds of sobriety , and their owne calling . but if it were granted ( though these allegations doe not prove it ) that offences may arise between congregations , how doth this prove the thing in question , viz. that congregations must depend upon the government of synods ? yes , say you ; because the remedy must be as large as the malady ; and otherwise christs salve were not equall to the sore . but if this reason be sufficient against the independency of churches ; then by the like reason a man may prove , that the church of a nation must not be independent neither : for as you alledge , that offences may arise as well between divers congregations , as between divers members in the same congregation ; so a man may alledge , that offences may arise between divers nationall churches . and as you demand , what if a brother offend not a particular brother , but the whole congregation ? what if ten brethren offend the whole , or part ; shall we think the offence falls not within our saviours remedy ? so in like sort a man may demand , what if the congregation offend not a particular congregation , but the whole church of a nation ? what if ten , twenty , fourty congregations , offend the whole nation , or part ? yea , we may adde , what if the nationall church offend the church of another nation ? would you now say , that all these offences must fal within our saviours rule of telling the church ; and that this were a sufficient reason against the independencie of nationall churches and nationall synods ? we suppose you would not say so : and yet we doe not see how it can be avoided by your reason and ground , sith that ground is appliable to the one case as well as to the other . if the reason doe overthrow the independencie of particular congregations , then of a nationall church also . if not of a nationall church , then how doth it make any more against the other ? of necessity for ought wee can discern , you must owne the reason as strong in both cases , or else refuse it as weak in both . yea , and further , by the like reason a man might prove that indians and turkes must be complained of unto the church , and that the offences of them , or of other heathen , must fall within the compasse of our saviours remedy . for as offences may arise between members and members , between churches and churches : so it is apparent that offences may arise between christians and pagans ; and if this ground that you lay be sound , that the remedy complaint , or oppeale must be as large as the malady offence : and consequently there must be a church above congregations ; then if an indian or other pagan shall commit an offence , the remedy must be to complain of the indian to the church . and sith ( as you say , pag. 11. ) there must be power of judgement to redresse there where the complaint is to be made ; would it not thence follow , that there must be power of judgement in the church to redresse the offences of indians ? which were directly contrary to the plain words of the apostle , 1 cor. 5. 12. what have i to doe to judge them that are without ? but this inconvenience of the churches judging them that are without , doth unavoidably follow upon this which you lay as a ground against the independencie of congregations , viz. that where an offence may be committed , there christs rule , tell the church , may be applied for redresse thereof . but what shall we say then ? if indians and other heathens , if congregationall and nationall churches of christians , be not under the power of that rule of christ , shall we say then there is no salve for all their sores , but so many sinners must be left lawlesse , and their offences remedilesse ? god forbid ! the lord hath provided good store of help for all these : but every salve is not for every sore . such persons as are in the church , all they are subject to the discipline of the church , and to the power of christ administred therein , so that if need so require , they may be excommunicated and cast out . whole churches are subject to the wholsome advice and counsell of other churches ; and so farre as the same shall be according to god , they ought to hearken thereunto : and if they doe not , they may lawfully be renounced by other churches , from all church-communion with them . and as for indians , or others , that are no churches , nor members of churches , though our saviours rule of telling the church , was not intended for them , yet both they and christian churches likewise , and the members of them , are all of them to be subject to the magistrates , and the authority of the higher powers , whose duty it is to be keepers of both tables of the law of god , and to do their endeavour that all the subjects may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godlinesse and honestie . rom. 13. 1. 1 tim. 2. 2. but , say you , an offence may be so generall as to defile and make guilty a whole land , and why not then the remedie as large as it , tell the church ? pag. 11. ans. in such case of generall and nationall defilements , the remedie is generall and nationall repentance , whereto all the people must be provoked , and exhorted by the ministers of the word in their severall congregations . and when the higher powers do give example thereof in their own persons , and by some act of their authoritie do call upon all the people for the same , this is a notable remedie , through the mercy of god , against the defilement of nationall sins , and the danger that may come thereby . which as it was the practise of asa , hezekiah , josiah , and the states of judah in their times , so we have cause with all humble thankfulnesse to blesse the lord that put the like care into the hearts of the lords and commons assembled in parliament in our deare native countrey , who by an ordinance of both houses thought it meet to exhort all the subjects of england and wales to the duty of repentance , both for personall and nationall sins . but suppose the magistrate be an enemy to religion , and the land or whole church therein have occasion to make a solemne renewall of their covenant with god , shall not this whole church or number in their collective body have power to enjoyn it ? ans. if the supreame magistrate be an enemie to religion , it is not like but most or many of the people will be of the same mind ; regis ad exemplum totus — as it is at this day in france and spaine , and was in england in the dayes of queen mary , and other popish princes ; and then the beleevers in the land will not be so many as to bear the name of the land or nation , but of a small part thereof , and so at that time it will not be required of them to make any nationall covenant , or to enjoyn the same . nor can it well be conceived how they should assemble in a nationall synod for that or any other purpose , when the magistrate is a professed enemie to their religion . at such times it is more like their meetings in small congregations will be full of danger , rather then that they should have libertie safely and freely to meet in such great assemblies as nationall synods . and though for lack of such a nationall covenant , the remedie be not equall to the offence or need , yet at such time that remedie being not in the power of such beleevers as are in the land , it is not required at their hands . if a whole congregation , great or small , play the foxes , and spoil the vineyard , why may it not be taken and restrained ? pa. 11. ans. no doubt but it may , but ever in the way , and by the means which christ hath appointed . if those foxes be particular members of the church , they may be restrained by doctrine , by discipline , and by the magistrates authoritie . if they be whole churches , they may be restrained by doctrine , and by the advise and counsell of other churches , and also by the magistrates . but if they be not members of the church , they can not be restrained by church discipline , but onely by the authoritie of the magistrate , and by the preaching of the word . to this argument the independent party reply or rather labour to obtain out of the text three things . first , that our saviour speaks here of a single church or congregation — secondly , to this single church , and to all this church entirely , not distinguishing between elders and members , he gives the keyes of excommunication and absolution — thirdly , over this church to assume a church power of judicature is a lording it over christs heritage — to the first of these exceptions we answer , that it no way appears that our saviour in this place or that , the scripture elsewhere , usually means a single congregation by the word church , but that the contrary rather is easily evincible . first , that he here spake in reference to the jewish church , which way no single congregation hath above sufficiently appeared . pag. 11. ans. but how in reference ? if you mean in this sence , that what ever was used in that church must be used in the christian , or that as that church was nationall , so christian churches must be the like , then we may say , no such things hath appeared at all , nor hath been so much as undertaken to be proved . if you mean onely thus , that there were such graduall proceedings in that church as christ in this place requireth , or that the word church may signifie the elders or rulers , then we may say neither of these have sufficiently appeared by any proof that you have brought ; and if they were both granted , they are nothing to the matter now in question viz. that the word church doth not signifie one single congregation ; for both these particulars may be found and made use of in such a church as is of no larger extent . next , that he hath reference herein to that of deut. 19. 15. appears by his citation of the very words of that text , that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established : now there the witnesses and offenders were by way of further appeal to stand before the lord , before the priests for judgement , vers. 17. pag. 12. answ. the words are not as you cite them , before the priests for judgement ; but before the priests and judges which shall be in those dayes . and it appeareth by the punishment which these judges must inflict upon the guiltie person there spoken of , life for life , eye for eye , tooth for tooth , &c. v. 21. that if our saviour refer his church to do like unto that judicatory which you say he hath reference unto , then the church must have power to inflict corporall punishment , even to the taking away of life it self , because that judicatory had such power . lastly , no other place can be shewed , where our saviour used the word church for a single congregation . ans. nor can any other place be shewed where he used the word church for a synod , nor that he ever used the word at all , but onely here , and in matth. 16. vpon this rock will i build my church : in which place he means a synod no more then a single congregation . but for the scripture language , nothing is more manifest , then as it never anywhere useth the word church for a single congregation , unlesse happily in 1 cor. 14. — so nothing is more frequent therein then to call many congregations in a province or city , by the name of a church . pag. 12. ans. we are willing to consider of both these particulars ; and first of the former , wherein you do acknowledge ( though a perhaps , or happily ) that in 1 cor. 14. the word church is taken for a single congregation : but you may acknowledge it undoubtedly , and without any perhaps at all , because it is said , ver. 23. of that chapter , that the whole church cometh together in one place . and in other verses of the same chapter he speaks , how he that prophecieth edifieth the church , how interpreting is that the church may receive edifying , how it is a shame for women to speak in the church , ver. 4 , 5 , 35. yea in ver. 26 , 27 , 28. he gives them this direction , that when they come together , and every one hath a psalme , a doctrine , &c. that he that speaks in a strange tongue , if there be no interpreter , must keep silence in the church . by all which he plainly sheweth , that the name church is given to the company that did assemble and come together , for performance of spirituall duties , and for the exercise of spirituall gifts . now a company coming together is a congregation , and therefore the name of church is here given to a congregation . but besides this chapter , there are many other places where the word church is also used in the same sence : for instance , take these amongst many : act. 14. 27. and 11. 26. and 15. 4 , 22 , 30. 1 cor. 11. 18 , 20 , 22 , 33. 3 joh. 6. in which places there is mention of assembling with the church , of gathering the church together , of being received by the church , of bearing witnesse before the church , of coming together in the church , of coming together into one place , of gathering the multitude together , and the like . which places do abundantly shew , that a company that are gathered together into one place ( which is nothing else but a congregation ) are called by the name of a church . and the christians of cenchrea which was but a little village , and therefore not like to be many congregations , yet they are stiled by the name of a church . rom. 16. 1. and though cenchrea were but the port of corinth , and not farre from it , like radcliffe or lymehouse to london , as some have observed , yet being a congregation of it self , it is a distinct church of it self , as well as corinth was . much more might be said to make it manifest , that a single congregation is called by the name of a church in many places of scripture ; and how then can that stand which is here affirmed by you , that the word is never so used , unlesse happily in 1 cor. 14. and that nothing is more manifest . but whereas you say , that nothing is more frequent then to call many congregations in a province or citie , by the name of a church ; we may rather say , that this is so far from being so frequent , as nothing more , that on the contrary it is very questionable , whether it be ever so used at all in all the new testament : sure it is more frequent to call many congregations in a province or nation , by the name of churches in the plural number , and not by the name of church in the singular ; which doth strongly imply , that if they be many congregations , then they are not one church , but many . for this purpose it is to be considered , how the scripture mentions not the church , but the churches of galatia , gal. 1. 1. 1 cor. 16. 1. of macedonia , 2 cor. 8. 1. of judea , 1 thess. 2. 14. gal. 1. 21. of galilee and of samaria , acts 9. 31. of syria and cilitia , acts 15. 41. and of asia , 1 cor. 16. 19. in which one province there were seven famous churches at once , mentioned revel. 1. 4. besides others that are mentioned else-where . now as all these instances doe sufficiently shew , that something is more frequent in scripture , then to call many congregations by the name of a church , so it is worth our consideration , what should be the reason of this diffrent speech in scripture , that when it speaks of the christians of one congregation , it should frequently give them the name of a church , as we heard before ; and when it speakes of the christians in a province or countrey , where were many congregations , it should call them so usually by the name of churches in the plurall number . sure it seemes to us to be strongly implyed thereby , that one congregation of christians may be a church ; but if they be many congregations , then they are many churches , and not one onely . but you will give foure instances , where the name of a church is given to many congregations , jerusalem , rome , corinth , and ephesus . and concerning jerusalem , the number of disciples that were there , being 8120 , acts 1. 15. with 2. 41. and 4. 4. and afterward abundantly larger , it was impossible all the members should meet but by way of distribution into severall congregations . pag. 12. answ. how large soever that church was in those places you alledge , yet if the scripture say they did meet together in one place , then we must beleeve it was possible for them so to doe ; and that as they were but one church , so they were but one congregation . now the text is plain , first of all , that when they were but 120. they all met together in one place ; for otherwise how could peter stand up in the midst of them , and make a speech to them all , about the election of another apostle in the room of iudas , as he is recorded to have done , acts 115. next of all , when 3000 were added to them , acts 2. yet all that multitude before they were converted , did all come together in one place , vers. 6. and peter standing up , lift up his voyce and spake unto them all , vers. 14. and when they were converted , both they and the rest of the beleevers were not yet so many , but the multitude of them were all together , vers. 44. and continued daily with one accord in the temple , vers. 46. and when after this , ( the lord adding daily to the church such as should be saved ) the number of the men was about 5000. acts 4. 4. yet all this company did stil meet together in one place : for it is said , that when the apostles were dismissed from the councill with threatnings , they went unto their own company and reported what the chiefe priests and elders had said unto them , vers. 23. and when they heard that , they lifted up their voyce in prayer to god with one accord , vers. 24. and when they had prayed , the place was shaken where they were assembled together , vers. 31. by which it is plain , that all this company , whether they were in all 5000. or ( if you will have it so ) 5000. besides the former number , and so in all 8120. yet still they were all assembled in one place . and when after this , beleevers were more added to the lord , multitudes both of men and women , acts 5. 14. yet all that time they were all with one accord in salomons porch , vers. 12. which shewes they were not yet so many , but all did meet together in one congregation . furthermore , when after this , the number of disciples in jerusalem was more multiplied , acts 6. 1. yet the apostle called the multitude of them together , to propose unto them the choyce of deacons , vers. 2. and the matter being commended to them by the apostles , it is said , the saying pleased the whole multitude , and they chose seven who are there named , vers. 5. which shewes that the whole multitude was not so many , but they might assemble and come together in one place , to heare matters proposed , and to make election of officers . after this indeed , this church at jerusalem were all scattered by persecution , except the apostles , acts 8. 1. but when a church was gathered again by the apostles ministery , that church , even all the multitude of them , as well as the apostles and elders , did all assemble and meet together with one accord in one congregation , about the businesse of the controversie that arose at antioch ; so it is plainly said , acts 15. that paul and barnabas comming from antioch , were received of the church at jerusalem , and of the apostles and elders , vers. 4. and it pleased the apostles and elders , with the whole church , to send messengers to antioch , vers. 22. and to that church letters are written from the apostles and elders , and brethren , vers. 23. being all assembled with one accord , verse 25. which plainly shewes that the church at jerusalem at this time , did not consist of apostles and elders alone , as a representative church , but of others also , who are expresly distinguished from those officers : and yet all this church did assemble with one accord in one place . lastly , for that place , 21. where you say ; it is plain , that when the church met collectively , it was in the presbyters and elders . and that in this church at jerusalem the collective meetings were representative in their elders . the answer is , that wee deny not but elders may meet apart from the multitude if there be occasion , and so much may be proved from verse 18. where it is said , paul went in unto james , and all the elders were present ; but this is nothing to the point in hand , that the church at jerusalem was so numerous , that all the members could not meet in one , but in severall congregations : nay , that very place ( though it speak of many thousand jewes that did beleeve , verse 20. ) yet as it doth not say , that all these were of that one church at jerusalem ; so there are good divines that doe think they were not : but if they were , it nothing prejudiceth our cause in this matter ; for when james and the elders speaking to paul of the jewes , doe tell him , the multitude must needs come together , for they will heare that thou art come , verse 22. it appeares thereby , that their multitude was not such , but they might all assemble and come together . if any say , how can these things be , that so many thousands as were members of the church at jerusalem , should all yet be but one congregation , besides what hath been said to shew that thus it was ; such an one may consider further , that many thousands , yea miriads , were gathered together , luke 12. 12. and christ spake unto them all , though unto his disciples first , verse 1 , 14 , 15 , 54. and that parishes in england in or about london , and else-where , as stepney , giles , sepulchres , and others , have many thousand inhabitants in them , all members of one parishionall church , and yet all but one congregation . and that of chrysostome on matth. 24. who as mr. bayn reports , dioe . triall , pag. 16. did esteem the company that heard his voice in one congregation , to be about 5000. persons , and that by means of scaffolds and galleries , a man lifting up his voyce , may so speak , as to be heard of thousands at a time . all which being considered , doe make it lesse incredible , that the church at jerusalem , consisting of such a great multitude , yet for all that might bee no more but one ordinarie congregation . next , for the church at rome in the apostles time , stiled every where in that epistle , by the name of church , not churches . pag. 13. answ. we suppose it is a plain mistake , that the church at rome is every where in that epistle stiled by the name of a church . for ought we remember in that epistle , it is never so stiled at all ; and yet we deny not but it was a church , and one church . but ( say you ) can it be thought that the faith and obedience of a church in such a citie , could be famous throughout all the world , as the apostle speaks , rom. 1. 8. & 16. 19. and yet but one single independent congregation ? answ. we know nothing to the contrary but it might be so : for the church at thessalonica was but one congregation , and yet from them sounded out the word of the lord , not only in macedonia and achaia , but also in every place , their faith to god-ward was spread abroad , 1 thess. 1. 8. and there might be other means to make their faith famous , as well as plurality of congregations ; as the resort and confluence of people of all sorts and nations to the place where this church dwelt , rome being the seat of the empire , and the lady of kingdomes at that time : also the good will of the godly , the malice of the wicked , the newfanglednesse of most , would open the mouthes of many to talke of the faith and profession of the christian romans , though they were no more but one congregation . those very persons and families named in the apostles salutations of that church , even those choycer families were able to fill severall congregations . answ. we dare not say so : for there is not named above 30. in all . sure if 30. families fill severall congregations , then those congregations must be very small ones . tertullian tells us , that in his time the citie was at least halfe christian : and cornelius tells us , that besides himselfe , there were in that church 45. presbyters . answ. but the question being , whether many congregations be frequently called in scripture by the name of a church , these testimonies being not from scripture doe not suit the question , therefore we will not insist upon them , but onely say this much ; that as they are both alledged by doctor downam , and them of the hierarchy that plead for diocesan churches against congregational , so they are both sufficiently answered by mr. bain , in his diocesan triall , p. 19 , 20. and by the refuter of d. downams sermon at lambeth . p. 65. next , the church at corinth every where stiled a church , not churches . answ. this we grant : but why might it not be one congregation , as well as one church ; the onely reason you bring to the contrary is , because they had so many instructers , 1 cor. 4. 15. and builders , 1 cor. 3. 12. so many prophets ( say you ) and teachers , speakers with tongues , — could not questionlesse have their ordinary locall meetings , but by way of distribution into severall congregations . answ. this arguing about the church of corinth , doth not very well agree with that which went before , p. 12. where you seemed to grant , that though no other place in scripture , yet that place , 1 corinth . 14. doth give the name of church to one single congregation ; whereas now you give corinth also as one instance where many congregations are called a church . it is strange to us , how corinth should be an example of both these , viz. of the name of church given to one single congregation , as you doe acknowledge , pag. 12. and of many congregations called by the name of one church , as now you would have it . but the place , 1. cor. 14. 23. that speakes of the whole church commiug together into one place , doth unavoidably prove ( for ought we can discern ) that corinth had their meetings , and not by way of distribution into severall congregations , but altogether in one congregation : and doth also answer your reason drawn from the variety of teachers and prophets in that church : for it is plain from that very chapter , that the church of corinth had many prophets ; let the prophets speake two or three , and let the rest judge , vers. 39. and many that spake with tongues , who must speake by course two or three ▪ and one interpret , verse 27. yea every one generally had a psalme , or a doctrine , or a revelation , or an interpretation , verse 26. as indeed they came behind in no gift , 1 cor. 1. & yet for all their variety of gifts , and gifted men , prophets , interpreters , speakers with tongues , and the like , both they and the whole church also , even women and all , used to come together into one place . but it is with much instance urged generally by all the separatists , that those among whom the corinthian fornicatou● was — they were all to be gathered together , and all to deliver him to satan ; therefore the power of the keye is alike in all the members , — and not in the elders alone . pag. 14. answ. this and all that follows for two whole pages may be something pertaining to the second of your three exceptions forementioned ; but nothing concerns the question now in hand . for whether the church of corinth , that must excommunicate the incestuous man , were the elders alone , as you hold ; or all the people also , as others : this is nothing to the present point of the sence of the word church , which is , whether is be taken in scripture , for many congregations or one onely : and therefore we marvell why you would here bring it in . neither indeed is it any thing to the maine question , of the dependencie of congregations upon the government of synods ; for if all were granted , that here is argued for , viz. that the church that must excommunicate the delinquent corinthian was not the common people , but the elders alone , yet the authoritie of synods is not a whit holpen thereby ; unlesse it could be proved that the church of corinth had no elders of their own ; which we are perswaded you will not affirm , because you grant pag. 13. that they had many instructors , many builders , many leaders , many prophets and teachers . wherefore this dispute being besides the question , we will not spend time in answering of it , because we would hasten to go forward with the rest , that pertains to the question , as you have stated it . your last instance of many congregations , called by the name of church , is ephesus , where you argue , there must needs be many congregations , because there was a great doore , and effectuall opened unto paul , so mightily there grew the word of god and prevailed , the greatnesse of the price of the conjuring books burnt publickly , and god himself testifies , he had many people in that citie . answ. when the lord saith to paul , i have much people in the city , it is a plain mistake to understand this of ephesus , for it was spoken of corinth , and not of ephesus . act. 18. 10. but if it had been spoken of ephesus , as we deny not , but that there were many christians there , how doth this prove the point , that they were not one congregation , but many ? we do not think they were more in number , then in corinth and jerusalem , where the christians , as we have shewed , did usually meet in one place ; and therefore at ephesus , they might do the like , though there were a great number of christians there . as for that which you say , that as this church could not possibly ordinarily in all its members meet but distributively ; so that it did meet collectively in its presbytery and eldership ; that which ordained timothy ( there by the apostles own testimony ) appears in the 17. 28. and 26. verses of the 20. chapter , beyond all exception . we answer thereto , it is not beyond all exception , that at ephesus was one church consisting of many congregations , which is our question . it may be granted that the elders of that church upon paul's sending for them did meet at miletum apart from the people , as was noted before out of act. 21. of the elders of jerusalem ; but this is nothing to our question , whether a church be many congregations , or one onely . as much might he said of the other of the seven churches of asia , with that at antioch , philippi and thessalonica . ans. and if as much were said of these as of the other , as much might also be answered . and though philippi and thessalonica had many bishops , deacons , overseers , yet all this is too short to prove they were many congregations ; for what should hinder but one congregation may have many officers ? that which followeth in this sixteenth page , and so forward to the middle of pag. 19. is spent in answering the other two exceptions which you formerly proposed pag. 11. concerning which we need not to spend much time ; the one of them , as we said before , is altogether besides the purpose , and on which side soever the truth doth lie in that matter , the present question is nothing at all cleared thereby ; and for the other , we leave it to them that make it to undertake the defence of it . for us it is sufficient to have shewed that all that you have said from matth. 18. tell the church , doth not prove that congregations must depend upon the government of synods , nor that many congregations are in scripture usually called by the name of a church ; and this being alreadie performed in that which we have answered , we therefore now proceed to consider of your third argument . chap. iiii. containing an answer to your third argument from acts 15. if that all ancient and modern writers , of all sorts , ( excepting onely some few of these last fiftie yeers , engaged by their own tenet of independency ) have with one voice concluded this chapter , a formall president for synods , would weigh any thing herein , the matter would soon be at an end ; but however the ●ext it self is so pregnant of this truth , that it hath of it self strength enough to deliver it self of it . here 's all that goes to the making up of a compleat synod , first , here 's the occasion — secondly , here 's a designation both of the commissioners and place , — thirdly , here 's the matter of a synod , — fourthly , here 's the form of a synod , — fifthly , here 's the end of a synod , — lastly , here 's the proper effect of a synod , — pag. 19. if all this were granted , yet the thing in difference , as your self have stated the question , in pa. 2 , 3 , 4. of your book , is not concluded thereby . for all this that is here said , goeth no further , but onely to shew that there ought to be synods ; whereas the question is about the power of synods , and how far the same doth reach , whether so far as that a synod onely ( and not a particular congregation ) ought to ordain officers , and excommunicate offenders : and between these two is a wide difference ; so that many a man may acknowledge the former , which is all that is here concluded , and yet not acknowledge the latter , which is the maine point , which should have been cleared . for our parts we deny not but there ought to be synods , and your argument concludes no more : yea your self do testifie , pag. 2. that those whom you deal against , do acknowledge as much in effect as here by you is concluded ; for there you say that they acknowledge , that neighbour churches may meet , consult and advise , &c. and if they acknowledge all this , then they acknowledge a use of synods , because these things we suppose , cannot be done by many churches at once , unlesse it be by their messengers , and deputies assembled together , which assembly is no other then a synod . wherefore sith no more is here concluded , then is by the independents parties ( as you call them ) acknowledged , we need not insist long , in giving answer to this argument . we will therefore onely briefly mention some grounds , that incline us to think that this assembly in act. 15. was a synod , and then give some annotations upon some few passages in your discourse about this place , and so proceed to the next argument . touching the former , when we say this meeting in act. 15. was a synod , we mean at least such an one as mr. parker pol. eccl. lib. 2. c. 23. sect. 1. understands it to be , viz. a consociation or combination of more churches then one , even of two at least . or as doctor whitakar who counts it neither a generall councill , nor yet a nationall , or provinciall , but a particular councill , as he cals it , lesse then either of the other . de concil. q. 1. c. 2. and that matters were carried in it , in way of an ordinarie synod , may appear by two things . 1 the persons imployed in it , which were not onely the apostles , those extraordinarie officers , but also the ordinarie elders and brethren of jerusalem . ver. 6 , 22 , 23. and besides paul and barnabas , certain others that were sent with them from antioch , v. 2. secondly , the meanes used for clearing the controversie , then in hand , was not the apostolicall authoritie , nor any extra ordinarie revelation , vouchsafed to the apostles and such extra ordinarie persons : there is not a word mentioned of any such thing ; but the means they used , was the same , that is common to ordinarie synods , viz. much disputation , v. 7. peter's experience of gods blessing upon his ministerie , to cornelius , and his companie , v. 7. and the like is done by paul and barnabas , for their part , ver. 12. and as for james , he alledgeth the testimonie of the prophet amos , v. 15 , 16. and the law of moses , read and preached in the synagogues , everie sabbath day , v. 21. now all these means being no other , but such as may be used , in ordinarie synods , therefore we see no other , but this meeting might be such an one . here is a designation ( say you ) of the commissioners and place . p. 19. answ. but these commissioners , and this place , were designed onely by them of antioch , v. 2. which shews that this meeting , was not of any more , but two churches , antioch and jerusalem : for if there had been more , how came it to passe , that onely they of antioch determine the place ? reason would have required , that if there had been others , they also should have had a voice in determining the place of meeting . here is the matter of a synod , not onely apostles but elders , and of severall churches . pag. 20. answ. true : but these churches are not mentioned , to be any other , but onely antioch and jerusalem . both thus meeting , to determine so great a matter , consequently all matter of jurisdiction , is not confined to one single congregation . pag. 20. answ. the matter determined , was a matter of doctrine , viz. whether circumcision was necessarie to salvation : v. 1. and there fore no matter of jurisdiction , unlesse jurisdiction , and doctrine be the same . and though they that taught this doctrine , ( if they perfisted pertinaciously therein , ) deserved to be censured , as you do truly alledge , from tit. 3. 10. reject an heretick , the dispencing of which censure , is a matter of jurisdiction . yet ( for ought that doth appear to the contrary ) both these churches might concur , to clear up the doctrine , and yet one onely , even that congregation ( whereof the offenders were properly members ) might dispence the censure , that was due for their pertinacious defence of such doctrine . the concurrence of both , to clear up the doctrine , doth argue want of light in the one ; but neverthelesse there might be entirenesse , of jurisdiction in each . but if churches had then been independent , antioch had undertaken and been able her selfe sufficiently , and finally to have judged the cause , and prevented the danger . answ. antioch did undertake to have ended the matter among themselves , and spent much time about it , before there was any speech of seeking out for help elsewhere , as appears , vers. 2. and this doth sufficiently declare it , that they were not necessarily dependant upon any other church , or churches , but had right to have ended the matter within themselves , if ability had served thereto , or else this undertaking of theirs had been sinfull , as being an attempting to doe that whereto they had no right . and though by reason of much dissention among themselves , they were forced to seek for help for ending the cause , this may argue want of ability and light , but argues not any want at all of authority or right : in which respect they might be independent , notwithstanding their imperfection in the other regard . suppose a father of children , or master of a family , through want of wisdome , or courage , be not able to rule his own children , and houshold , as eli , or suppose a king that is a child , as salomon speaks , ( eccles. 10. ) or princes that are babes , ( as the prophet termeth them , isai. 3. ) be not able to govern their own subjects , as rehoboam , 2 king. 12. would you think this want of sufficient ability , a sufficient argument to prove , that such a father or master , had no authority or right to rule his own children , or houshold ; nor such a prince any right to rule his subjects ; but that the families of the one must depend upon other families ; and the common-wealth of the other upon other common-wealths ? we suppose you would not say so ? and yet you may as well say it , as say as here you doe , that if churches had been independent , antioch had been able her selfe sufficiently to have ended the cause . antioch finding her selfe not able , may send to jerulem for help ; and yet this sending neither proves right of jurisdiction in them of jerusalem , who are sent unto , nor want of jurisdiction in them of antioch , who so doe send . yes , say you . an obliging the churches by decrees , laid on them , as a burden , is a use of the keyes , in which use of them , ephesus is commended , pergamus and thyatyra reproved , pag. 25. answ. but if this be a use of the keyes , may it not be of the key of doctrine , as well as the key of discipline , sith the burdens laid on them , were not burdens of penalty , but burdens of duty ; not punishments to be suffered for offence given ; but rules of practice to be observed , lest offence should be taken ; as is plaine , if the particulars be considered , pag. 29. and therefore it seems the imposing these burdens , was not so properly an act of jurisdiction , and discipline , as an act of doctrine . as for ephesus , the use of the keyes ( for which they are commended ) is not ( as you affirme ) for imposing decrees as burdens upon one another ; nor is pergamus or thyatyra reproved , for neglect of so doing , but trying and detecting counterfeit apostles , which was a matter of doctrine , and not bearing with them that were evil , which was matter of discipline , are the things for which ephesus is commended ; and suffring them which were evill ( which was a neglect of discipline ) is that for which the other are reproved , rev. 2. 2. 14. 20. but neither is the one commended for imposing decrees , nor the other reproved for neglecting so to doe . but you will prove that the synod had jurisdiction and power of the keyes of discipline ; because , say you , this decree is it self a rule given , wherein and whereby to use the keyes , upon such as shall prove stubborn , in defending the contrary of what is here decreed — , and that authority which can give the rule , can ( a fortiori ) back and punish its breach . p. 25. ans. but is this certain and clear , that whoever hath authority by way of doctrine , to impose a rule , hath also authoritie , by way of discipline , to punish its breach ? we propose to consideration , these instances for the contrarie . first of all the prophets in israel , isaiah , joel , amos , and the rest , had authoritie by way of doctrine , ( as being sent of god for that purpose ) to deliver the wil of god , as a rule to be observed , not onely by all the princes , and people , but even by the priests and levits also ; for so we read they many times did , and yet not being priests themselves , nor levites , they had not authority to punish , by way of discipline , such as disobeyed their doctrine , and those holy rules which they delivered from the lord . nextly , any one minister , who is truely sent of god , may in his doctrine , deliver the rules of gods word , to the people he is sent unto , and impose those rules as burthens , and necessary things to be observed ; and yet one minister alone cannot punish the breach of those rules , in a way of discipline , because church-discipline is to be dispenced by a church , matth. 18. 17. and one man alone ( we are perswaded ) you will not say , can be a church . further , any minister or ministers of one church ( be it congregationall or nationall ) may upon occasion being desired thereto , preach the word of god in another the like church , and so impose burdens of christian duties to be observed by them , that they thus occasionally preach unto ; yet it would not follow they might by discipline punish such as should walke contrary to those rules , because the power of jurisdiction which they have when they are at home in their owne church , doth not reach so farre as unto that other church where now they are called to preach the doctrine of the word . lastly , there is no doubt but any minister , or ministers of the gospel ( if occasion served thereunto ) might by way of doctrine deliver rules of faith and obedience , unto pagans , and such as are no members of any christian church at all , and might command them in the name of the lord , to observe those rules ; and yet it would not therefore follow , that they might punish those pagans in a way of discipline , for the breach of those rules ; because the apostle saith plainly , what have i to doe to judge them that are without ? 1 cor. 5. 12. yea , there are sundry good writers in reformed churches , who do hold , that doctors in the church have authority by their office , to deliver sound wholsome doctrine , from the scriptures , and yet may not meddle , with dispensation of sacraments , nor discipline ; see among others for this , calvines instit. lib. 4. ch. 3. sect. 4. and if this be so , this may be another instance for the same purpose as the rest , and by all this , we suppose it is clear , that some men may have authoritie , by way of doctrine , to impose rules , that must be observed , as necessary things , and yet not have authoritie , by way of discipline , to punish those that shall disobey those rules . and therefore though the first of these were granted , to be within the power of a synod , yet that they have power to do the other also , is not proved thereby . chap. v. containing an answer to your fourth argument , taken from 1 tim. 4. 14. laying on of the hands of the presbytery . hence i argue thus . such as are for independency , admit of no other rule in church-government , but the scripture practise or institution , but where in all the scripture , read we of any ordination , of pastors , but by presbyters ? — timothy was ordained by the laying on of the hands of the presbytery : titus was for this very cause , left at creet that he should ordain elders in every city . pag. 26 , 27. answ. all that is here said is onely about ordination of officers , which ( at the most ) is but one part of the ecclesiasticall government , or jurisdiction . and therefore if it were granted , that this ordination belongeth onely to a synod , yet the question ( being not of one part , but of the whole jurisdiction ) is not concluded thereby . neverthelesse we are willing to consider what is said about this particular , and therefore our answer is distinctly thus . 1 that if a congregation have elders of it own , then when other officers are to be ordained , in that church , such ordination is to be performed , by the imposition of the hands of those elders . this we never denied , and a good deale of your proofs , do conclude no more . for what if the presbyterie at ephesus , did lay hands upon timothy , 1 tim. 4. 14. and the presbyterie , at antioch upon paul , and barnabas , act. 13. 1 , 2. which are two of your proofs ? this may evince , that in churches furnished with a presbyterie , ( as ephesus and antioch were ) that that presbyterie is to perform imposition of hands , which is nothing against us , neither do willingly acknowledge the same . but it may be in this argument you intend a further matter , viz. that ordination cannot be performed lawfully , by any , but onely by elders . for where ( say you ) in all the scripture do we read of any ordination of pastors but by presbyters ? whereto we answer three things . 1 that we do read of such a matter in the scripture . 2 that if we did not , yet we read so much as b● good consequence doth infer the lawfulnesse of the practise . 3 that which we do read , that may seeme , to make against this practise , is not because the thing , is in every case , unlawfull , but for other reasons . 1 for the first of these , we alledge numb. 8. 10. which place sheweth , that though the levites were church officers , and the children of israel were none , yet the children of israel did lay their hands upon the levites ; by which scripture , thus much is manifest , that when a church hath no elders , but the first elders themselves are to be ordained , and this at such times , and in such places , where elders can not conveniently be borrowed from any other church , in such case imposition of hands may lawfully be performed , by some principall men of the congregation , although they be not elders by office ; for sith it was so in the church of israel as this text doth witnesse , what should hinder but in the like case , the like may be lawfully done in these dayes ? if any shall ask how was it possible , that the children of israel , being 600000 should all lay hands upon the levites at once ? answer . it is not like that all did it , but some instead of the rest : and so when some do impose hands , in stead of all the congregation , that may be sufficient . if it shall be said , these children of israel , might be elders , and so their example will be no warrant for imposition of hands by non-elders : the answer is , it is like they were elders , as being the chief and principall members , of the congregation ; but yet their example proveth the point if two things be considered . first , that they did not this as a work peculiar to them as elders . secondly , that they did it not for themselves onely , but for all the congregation ; the former of which may be thus manifested ; if they did it as elders , then either as elders and governours ecclesiasticall , or as civill governours but not the first , for that charge was onely belonging to aaron and his sons , levit. 8. and these levites now ordained , if the second be said , then it will follow , that civill magistrates though no church officers , may impose hands in ordination of church officers , and so the point is gained . for if magistrates may do it , then it will follow that a church wanting magistrates may perform this action by other the fittest instruments she hath . for this is not a work properly tied to the magistrates office ; because then the church in the apostles time , wanting magistrates , could not have had officers ; the contrary whereof is manifest in the scripture , act. 14. 23. tit. 1. 5. secondly , as these children of israel ( suppose they were the chief fathers of families ) imposed hands on the levites , not as elders and governours ecclesiasticall , or civill but as principall members of the church , so what was herein performed by them , was not done by themselves onely , but for all the congregation . and this appears , first because these levites now to be ordained by imposition of hands , were taken in stead of all the first-born of israel , and not in stead of the first born of elders onely : numb. 3. 40 , 41. secondly , they were presented to the lord , as an offering of the children of israel , numb. 8. 11. and not of the elders onely ; and inasmuch as all offerings were to be presented at the doore of the tabernacle , with the imposition of his hands whose the offering was , levit. 1. 3. 4. it is therfore evident , that they that imposed hands on the levites , did it in the name of all the people , whose offering these levites were . thirdly , it was usuall , that when all the multitude brought an oblation , the elders put their hands on the head of the sacrifice . levit. 4. 14 , 15. viz. in stead of all the multitude , whose the sacrifice was . and thus you see , we read in scriptures of the imposition of hands , performed by them that were no elders , by office , and so this demand of yours , where in scripture do we read of such a practise , is answered . but if we did not read of any such thing , yet it may suffice ( which was our second particular to be proved ) that we do read so much as by good consequence , inferreth the lawfulnesse of the practise . and for this purpose , first , we propound act. 1. act. 6. and act. 14. where we read of the peoples electing , and chusing officers , of which places , more may be spoken afterward ; now if the people may elect officers , then in some cases , they may ordain them also , because ordination is lesse then election , and depends upon it as a necessarie antecedent ; by vertue whereof it is justly administred . yea it is not onely lesse then election , but lesse in the same kind , being nothing else , but the accomplishment of election , or the admission of a person into the possession of that office , whereto he had right before by election . and hence it follows by good consequence , that if a single congregation , may elect officers , which is the greater , they may also in some case ordain them , which is the lesser . for your self do grant that to argue affirmatively , from the greater , to the lesser in the same kind is good consequence , and such is this ; which kind of arguing is also used by doctor whitaker concerning this very particular . besides , we read , heb. 6. 2. that imposition of hands is amongst the principles of religion , and joyned by the apostle with baptisme , resurrection , and the eternall judgement ; and therefore an institution of ordinary and perpetuall use , as all principles are , and so not to be omitted in the ordination of officers . and if so , it will therefore follow , that in some case it may be performed by such as are not in office ; because the case may so be , that otherwise it cannot be performed at all , so that either no officers must be ordained , nor any imposition of hands used at all ; or else imposition of hands in some case may be performed by them that are not in office . now that it cannot alwayes be performed by officers , three instances make it manifest : first , when there are no officers of any other church to be had , as at the first rise of the first christian church in a pagan countrey , far remote from all churches , as here in america by the english ; & in the case which you put of a company of christians by shipwrack cast upon an iland where no pastors were . secondly , when those that may be had , are so exceedingly corrupt , and the churches to whom they do belong , that it could not be convenient to make use of them , but very dangerous to fetch ordination onely from them , as at the first reformation after the times of popery , when there were none to be had , but from the popish bishops and priests ; from whom to receive ordination , were as much as to say , either that the ministers of antichrist may ordain ministers to the church of christ , or else that popish bishops are true ministers of christ : and sure if christians might not have any ministers , unlesse ordained by the popish bishops , the case were as pittifull as if sheep might have no shepheards , but such are appointed to them by the wolves . thirdly , when those that are more desireable , have no sufficient calling to dispence ordination in another church which is the case when they are not requested thereto ; for sith ordinary elders are not like apostles , to feed all flocks , but that flock of god , which dependeth upon them , 1 pet. 5. 2. that flock over which the holy ghost hath made them over-seers , acts 20. 28. therefore wee doe not understand , how they can assume authority and power unto themselves , to ordain elders to other churches , whereof themselves are neither elders nor members , unlesse they had a calling thereto , by the request of that church where the elders are to be ordained . so that by these instances it appeareth , that sometimes officers of other churches are not to be had , sometimes those that may be had , are as ill as none , and not to be depended on , or desired ; and sometimes those that are more desireable , have no sufficient calling to ordain ministers in any other church ; and therefore in such cases as these , sith officers must not be admitted without imposition of hands , imposition of hands must be performed by non-officers . but you will say , we read in sundry places , where imposition of hands , was performed by elders , and not one place in all the new testament , where it was performed by others . whereto we answer , that all this is true , but nothing against what we have said ; because ( which was our third particular to be cleared ) the true reason of this , that is here alledged , was not , as if ordination by non-elders were in every case unlawfull : but because in those times elders were not wanting ; for there were the apostles and apostolicke men , who were elders in all churches . and we do willingly grant , that where a church is furnished with elders , imposition of hands is to be performed by the elders , and so much the examples in the new testament doe evince . but we have also shewed from numb. 8. that if there be no elders , as at the first , nor any that can conveniently be gotten from other churches , then imposition of hands may lawfully be performed by others . but you will prove , that it doth not belong to the congregation with or without a pastor , to ordain elders ; because the rules of direction , how to proceed in ordination , and the epistles wherein those rules are , are not written or directed to the whole churches of ephesus or creet , but to timothy and titus only , as their inscriptions speaks . answ. if this be a sufficient reason , to prove that the people may not in any case , meddle with ordination , then by as good a reason , a man may prove that ordination belongs not to the presbytery , nor to the synods , but onely to one man , as the prelats would have it : for a man may turn the reason against your selfe , and say , the rules of direction how to proceed in ordination , and the epistles wherein those rules are , are not directed to any presbytery or synod at ephesus or creet , or anywhere else , but onely to timothy and titus , who were each of them but onely one man . but look how you would answer this plea for episcopall ordination , the same answer may be given to yours . and for us , we cannot but approve the answer given to this kind of reasoning , by the refuter of doctor downhams sermon at lambeth , who in his reply , part . 2. pag. 107. doth shew , that the lawes of church-government prescribed in the epistles of timothy and titus , were not provided for bishops alone , nor elders alone , but for a mixt state , wherein many presbyters under the guidance of one pastor or president , doe administer and execute all matters with the peoples consent and approbation . in which affirmation he alledgeth the consent of most & best divines of later times , instancing in calvin & beza , & especially the apostles own warrant in the close of thoses epistles , with these words , grace be with you , or with you all , 2 tim. 4. 22. tit. 3. 15. and by this , saith he , it appeareth , that what was written specially by name to timothy & titus , was intended to be of common use , not only for other ministers , but also in some sort to all the saints that then conversed in those places . now if what was written by name to timothy and titus , was intended to be of common use to all the saints , then there is no reason that you should appropriate those rules onely to the use of presbyteries and synods , no more then others only to the use of prelats ; especially this being considered withall , that if once the saints be excluded from being at all concerned in those rules , they that would appropriate them to one man , have a fairer colour for their plea , then they that would appropriate them to a presbyterie , or synod , consisting of many ; because timothy or titus to whom those epistles are by name directed , are not many persons , but either of them one onely . but it appeares , say you , that we read in scripture , that this part of jurisdiction was dispensed by the eldership onely , and that a consociated eldership . pag. 27. answ. that it was dispensed by the eldership , we willingly grant ; but that it was dispensed by the eldership onely , and that the eldership by which it was dispensed , was a consociated eldership ( that is to say , a synod ) neither of these doe appeare at all : nay , we suppose the contrary to both these may appeare . for as for the former , we have shewed the contrary already ; and for the latter , we will onely instance in that eldership at antioch , acts 13. that laid hands on paul and barnabas , which eldership was not any synod , but an eldership of one congregation : for it is plain out of acts 14. 27. that the church of antioch was no more then might be gathered together in one place ; yea , the whole multitude of them were gathered together at the return of paul and barnabas from the synod at jerusalem , to heare the epistle read which was sent from that synod , acts 15. 30. 31. and therefore this church being but one congregation , that eldership therein by whom paul and barnabas were ordained , could not be any synod . but , say you , there must be triall of parties to be ordained , and hands must not be laid on suddenly on any , and 't is laid down what kind of men they ought to be , before they be ordained . and that this triall and approbation of the parties to be ordained , is in the hands of the presbyterie , and consociated eldership , not the whole . pa. 27. answ. that they ought to be tried , before they be ordained , yea and afore they be chosen , we freely grant ; but that this triall is in the synod alone , hath not appeared , by the former texts , nor by any of them . we cannot perceive how any of them , do in any sort , look towards such a thing . and as for this which is here alledged of the impossibilitie of discharging it by a single congregation , with or without a pastor ; we answer thereto ; first , that if a congregation that is without a pastor could not discharge it , yet if they be furnished with an able and faithfull pastor , we know not what should hinder but they might be able thereto . an able and faithfull pastor , one would think should be able to try others , that are to be ordained pastors ; and therefore we marvell that you should denie this abilitie to this congregation , as well as to the other . secondly , suppose they be without a pastor , yet if they be beleevers , they are not altogether without abilitie of spirituall discerning , to discern whether that which is taught be wholsome doctrine , or otherwise . witnesse the words of our saviour , who saith , that his sheep know his voice , but a stranger they will not follow , but will flee from him , for they know not the voice of strangers : and though there had been many theeves and robbers , yet the sheep did not hear them . joh. 10. which plainly shews , that the sheep of christ , have some abilitie , to trie and discern , whether the doctrine that men teach , be the wholsome doctrine of truth , or otherwise . which may be the more confirmed , by the promise , they shall be all taught of god , isa. 54. 13. and by that of joh. 7. that if any man will do gods will , he shall know the doctrine , whether it be of god , or men speak it of themselves . there must be some abilitie to discern , whether men be qualified according to the rule , afore they ought to be elected , and chosen into office ; and the people of god have so much abilitie , to discerne this fitnesse , as that they may lawfully , make this election ; and what then should hinder , but they may have so much abilitie , as is of necessitie required , afore there be proceedings unto ordination . as for that instance which you give about the union of the two natures in the person of christ , whether the nature assumed the nature , or the person the person ; or the nature the person , or the person the nature . and again , whether this assumption was by way of composition , or conjunction , or conversion , or vision ( we suppose it should be union ) wherein you think it would be hard for these examiners in a congregation , to hit upon the right judgement , and of four preachers to ordain him that were orthodox in this matter . we say no more to this instance , but onely thus much , that as he is the best preacher who most teacheth the people knowledge , eccles. 12. and who had rather speake five words to the understanding , so as he may teach others , and the hearers be edisied , rather then ten thousand words in a strange tongue , and uncoth termes , that himselfe might be admired , 1 cor. 14. 19. so we know nothing but the people of god in a congregation : these terms being explained unto them , might be able to discern which were the orthodox tenent of the four particulars , and accordingly pitch upon him that holds it . lastly , you speak , pag. 29. of four things that are opposed about this matter of ordination . where , though we will not take upon us to justifie all those reasons , but leave them to the authors of them , to undertake the defence of them , if so be there be any that doe so argue ; yet we may speak a word or two to some passages in your answer to these four particulars . first of all , to the case of a company of beleevers cast by ship-wrack upon an island , where are no pastors , your answer is , that the question is about the ordinary way of scripture-institution in this matter of ordination , not what may be done in extraordinary cases . whereby it seems that in the case proposed , you grant ordination may be performed by non-elders . and if so , what then becomes of all you have said before of timothy and titus , and of the rules about ordination in the epistles to these two evangelists , of the presbytery at antioch , that laid hands upon paul and barnabas , of the inability of people to examine and try who were fit for office , and the rest ? for granting what here you doe , you plainly declare , that all your former reasoning amounts but to this much , that when pastors can be had , then imposition of hands is best performed by those pastors , otherwise it may be done without them ; wherein we for our parts consent with you . but by this means the necessary dependance upon synods for ordination of officers , is utterly overthrowne . but , say you , indepencie of every single congregation , to bee the ordinary way , herein is the claime of the independent party . answ. what others claim , they may declare their grounds for the same as they see cause ; for our selves , that which we hold , with the grounds thereof , is briefly this , in four propositions ; two of them concerning what is to be done in case a chhurch have elders of its own : and two concerning what is to be done in case it have not . in respect of the former . proposition 1. if a church have elders of its own , imposition of hands in ordination is to be performed by those elders , and not by the people . proposition 2. a church that hath elders of its own , needs not to depend upon a synod , or the presbyteries of other churches , consociat or single , for the the ordaining of its officers ; but the same may be performed lawfully and sufficiently by its owne elders . in respect of the latter : 1. in a church that hath no elders , imposition of hands in ordaining of officers , may lawfully be performed by some principall members in the congregation . 2. if the church have elders of its own , it may doe well to crave the approbation of the ministers of neighbouring congregations if there be any such . the grounds of the first and third of these propositions hath been declared already ; and for the second we thus argue : arg. 1. if such a church may elect and chuse officers to it self , without any necessary dependance upon synods ; then they may ordain them also , having so fit instruments as elders of their own to doe it by . but the first is true , as we have elsewhere shewed in this answer of ours : therfore the second is true also . the consequence of the major is cleare by this reason , that they which can doe the greater , can doe the lesser also , if it be of the same kind . arg. 2. if such a church as we here speak of , may not ordaine their officers without dependance on a synod , or a classis ; then neither may they administer seals without such dependance : for the word makes such dependance , no more requisite in the one case , then in the other . arg. 3. if it were not thus , it were not possible , there should be any synod or classis upon the face of the earth ; for what is a classis or a synod ? but a companie of ministers or elders , of severall congregations , assembled together to consider of things concerning themselves , and the churches of christ , specially such churches , whereto they do peculiarly belong ; now this assembling of elders into a classis or synod , doth imply that there were elders before there was any classis , or synod ; and if so , then certainly there was no concurrence , of the classis or synod in the ordination of those elders ; sith they were elders before that synod had any being ; which doth sufficiently shew , that the concurrence of a synod , is not alwaies required in the ordaining of elders . obj. if it be said the synod did ordain timothy , an evangelist , an officer of many churches , 1 tim. 4. 14. and therefore much more must ordain officers of one particular church . the answer is , first , that the consequence is not strong , because a particular church might have authoritie sufficient , to ordain by their eldership the officers of their particular church onely ; and not sufficient to ordain such as must be officers in all churches , whatsoever . the help of a classis or synod , where is a combination or consociation of elders , of many churches , might be requisite for ordaining an officer of many churches , and yet the eldership of our particular church , might be sufficient for ordaining such a one , as is to be officer , to no more but onely to that particular church . secondly , the ground hence is not certain . for though timothy was an evangelist , and so to travell from one church to another , yet the presbyterie 1 tim. 4. 14. that laid hands on him , might be the presbyterie of one particular church , and not any synod or classis . for paul and barnabas were apostles , act. 14. 4. and 14. gal. 2. 9. and yet they were ordained , not by any classis or presbyterie of many churches , but by the presbyterie of one church , the church at antioch . act. 13. 1 , 2 , 3. those ( say they ) that can do the greater ( that is to say ) make a church , can do the lesse , make pastors of that church . ans. we would rather argue thus ; those that have power of electing officers , they have power of ordaining officers ; but the people that have no officers , have the former . therefore they have power to do the latter . the consequence is proved , because electing is greater then ordaining , and greater not in another kind , but in the same ; viz. about the placing of a minister , or the designing of a person to the office , of ministerie . now an argument from the greater to the lesse , in the same kind , you confesse will hold . which visible ministery where it is , this propertie or proper power of ordaining officers , is a necessarie and immediate ordinarie concomitant thereof . pag. 31. answ. if this be so , then there may be officers ordained , and not by a synod , even in a particular congregation ; because in such a one there may be a visible ministerie . although that which you have said in this argument , be not expresly against the congregations , electing their officers ; but onely against their ordaining of them , by imposition of hands ; yet in asmuch as sundrie passages in your book , and in this argument especially , do seem to make as much against the one , as the other . therefore as we have alreadie spoken , to the point of ordination , so we will also , for the readers further direction , give some grounds for confirmation of this position , about election , viz. election of ordinarie officers belongeth to the church , whereof the partie is to be an officer , so that they proceed in this election , according to the rules of the word ; both chusing a man fitted by god for the office , unto which they chuse him , and carrying their choice , in an orderly manner . reason 1 it was thus in the apostles times , and therefore it ought to be so now . the antecedent is clear from act. 1. where in the very choice of an apostle , the church are not wholly excluded ; for though the office of an apostle being extraordinarie , the expresse designing of the particular person , is determined by god by lot , yet the church appoints two that one of them may be singled out , v. 23. and when the lot had fallen upon matthias , it is said he was numbred with the eleven apostles , v. 26. that is , he was by common suffrage of the churchchosen to be of that number ; for so doth the word signifie , that is used , {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} and therefore it is translated by scapula , omnium calculis allectus . and it is observable , that though the office was extraordinarie , and though the apostles ( who were extraordinarie officers , and had received their calling and extraordinarie authoritie from christ himself , immediately ) were now present , yet for all this , the church hath a stroke in this matter , both first appointing two , and then approving by their common suffrage or consent him of the two , on whom the lot had fallen ; to be for instruction unto us in after times , that in the choice of ordinarie officers , it should be farre from any of the sons of men , to exclude the people of god , from their right and interest therein ; for if they had a stroke in the choice of an apostle ; how much more should they have the like , in the choice of ordinarie officers ? and if the apostles themselves being present , would not abridge the people of this libertie , much lesse may others do it ; doubtlesse they that engrosse the authoritie of chusing ministers into their own hands , excluding the people , they arrogate more unto themselves then the apostles ever did . so likewise in act. 6. when deacons were to be appointed , the apostles do not take all the businesse into their own hands , as if election of such officers appertained onely to themselves , and not at all unto the people : but they call the whole multitude unto them , ver. 2. and bid them chuse out seven men , fitly qualified for the office , ver. 3. and accordingly the saying pleased the whole multitude ; and they chose seven that are there named , ver. 5. and having so done , they set them before the apostles that they might ordain them by laying their hands on them , ver. 6. and in act. 14. 23. it is said that the apostles ordained elders , by election , or lifting up of hands , ( for so doth {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} signifie ) in every church . obj. the word signifieth nothing else , but laying on of hands , which was the act of the apostles alone , and not of the people . ans. the word is never used for laying on of hands in all the scripture , but the word used for that is {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , betwixt which and this word {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , there is as much difference as betweene holding up and laying down . if luke the writer of the acts had intended the laying on of hands , it had been easie for him to have used the other word , which is proper to expresse such an action , and frequently used by himself in that sence in this book . act. 6. 6. and 8. 17. and 9. 17. object . but be it laying on , or lifting up , that was not the act of the people , but of the apostle alone . answ. of the apostles it is confessed : for who doubts , but as they moderated the whole action , and laid on their hands in ordination ; so they might also concurre in the election , by lifting up their hands ? but it will not follow , that therefore that lifting up of hands was performed by the apostles onely ; for elsewhere the word is used to expresse the act of the whole church , and is translated ( was chosen , 2 cor. 8. 19. {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} ; was chosen of the churches : even as one place mentioneth a gift that was in timothy , by the laying on of pauls hands , 2 tim. 1. 6. which must not be understood of pauls hands alone , because another scripture mentioneth the hands of the presbytery , 1. tim. 4. 14. by all which it appeareth , that in the apostles times , the people had one hand in the election of their officers . and if so , then it ought to be so also in these dayes : for the practice of the apostles recorded in the acts is presidentiall for all churches in all ages , in those things that were not of particular reason and respect ; which for the peoples chusing their ministers , cannot be said . besides , when the apostles were alive , the churches were in the greatest purity , and therefore we may more safely tread in their steps . and further , if this practice had not been according to the mind of christ , we may be sure the apostles would not have countenanced it , nor have directed the churches to have used it , but would have left and prescribed some other course to be observed in the choyce of ministers , which we see they have not done . secondly , if ministers must not be chosen by the church , then either they must be called of god immediatly , or ministers without any calling at all , or be chosen and appointed by some other men : but not the first , because such immediate calling is now ceased ( as being peculiar to the extraordinary function of apostles , prophets , &c. ) which in these times are not to be expected ; nor the second , because that is expresly against the scripture , which saith , no man must take this honour to himselfe , but he that is called of god , as was aaron , heb. 5. 4. and therefore they that ran when god sent them not , are many times , and very sharply reproved in the prophets , jer. 23. 21. nor the third : for 1. god hath not given any such authority to other men that are not of the church , to appoint officers to the church : nor 2. may some of the church arrogate this power onely to themselves , excluding the rest ; because that which concerneth all ( as this matter doth ) ought to have approbation of all , unlesse it might appeare , that god had committed the thing only to some , which for the chusing of officers cannot be said . 3. it is sutable to right reason , that it should be thus : for 1. by this means the liberty of the church is not infringed by thrusting officers uppon them without their consent , and whom they never chose . also 2. this is a strong engagement to the people , to yeeld due reverence , subjection and obedience to their ministers , because they are the men whom themselves have chosen ; whereas one thrust upon them against their wills , is not like to be much beloved , but rather contemned and hated ; and how then shall they profit by his doctrine ? finally , the people have a right originally to chuse their civil officers , as is also practised at this day in many places : and when the lord brings a sword upon a land , the scripture saith expresly , that the people of the land may take a man of their coasts , and set him for their watchman , ezek. 33. 2. and if so , then they may well have liberty to chuse such as must be watchmen for their souls : for it is much more unreasonable , that there should be thrust upon them such watchmen and officers , upon whom the salvation or damnation of their souls doth depend , then such as upon whom dependeth no more but their wealth , or commodity of this life . and this shall suffice for answer to your fourth and last argument . there are in your book two other general heads which are somthing insisted on , the one about clearing such objections as are not reducible to your former arguments ; the other of appealing to the judgement of the adverse party : in both which , thopugh we might observe sundry things which were worth your second review , yet in as much as our intentions were chiefly to consider the weight of your arguments , but not to undertake the defence of every objection which you propose ; and considering withall , that those considerations from the order , unity , peace , and strength of government with the rest , are not intended by you ( as we suppose ) as convincing , but onely as probable grounds against that way which you deale against ; therfore for these and some other reasons , having spoken to that which we conceive to be the main substance of your book , we will here for this time surcease , praying the father of mercies for christ jesus his sake , to poure out his rich blessings of truth & peace upon our deare native countrey , and to guide all his servants there & here by a spirit of truth , into all truth . and to give us such hearts and grace , that we may follow the truth in love , till antichristianisme be utterly rooted out , and sion be restored , ( especially in england ) to her former beiuty , and new jerusalem come down from heaven , as a bride adorned for her husband , the lord jesus christ . to whom be all glory and praise for ever and ever . amen . finis . a catechisme, or, the grounds and principles of christian religion set forth by way of question and answer wherein the summe of the doctrine of religion is comprised, familiarly opened, and clearly confirmed from the holy scriptures / by richard mather, teacher to the church at dorchester in new england. mather, richard, 1596-1669. this text is an enriched version of the tcp digital transcription a50246 of text r43433 in the english short title catalog (wing m1268). textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. the text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with morphadorner. the annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. this text has not been fully proofread approx. 224 kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from 68 1-bit group-iv tiff page images. earlyprint project evanston,il, notre dame, in, st. louis, mo 2017 a50246 wing m1268 estc r43433 27577036 ocm 27577036 110138 this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons 0 1.0 universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase 1, no. a50246) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set 110138) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, 1641-1700 ; 1728:6) a catechisme, or, the grounds and principles of christian religion set forth by way of question and answer wherein the summe of the doctrine of religion is comprised, familiarly opened, and clearly confirmed from the holy scriptures / by richard mather, teacher to the church at dorchester in new england. mather, richard, 1596-1669. [8], 124, [2] p. printed for iohn rothwell, and are to be sold at his shop ..., london : 1650. reproduction of original in bodleian library. eng congregational churches -catechisms. congregational churches -doctrines. catechisms -congregational churches. a50246 r43433 (wing m1268). civilwar no a catechisme, or, the grounds and principles of christian religion set forth by way of question and answer wherein the summe of the doctrine mather, richard 1650 36713 18 0 0 0 0 0 5 b the rate of 5 defects per 10,000 words puts this text in the b category of texts with fewer than 10 defects per 10,000 words. 2003-02 tcp assigned for keying and markup 2003-03 apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images 2003-04 rina kor sampled and proofread 2003-04 rina kor text and markup reviewed and edited 2003-06 pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a catechisme or , the grounds and principles of christian religion , set forth by way of question and answer . wherein the summe of the doctrine of religion is comprised , familiarly opened , and clearly confirmed from the holy scriptures . by richard mather , teacher to the church at dorchester in new england . hold fast the form of sound words which thou hast heard of me in faith and love , which is in christ iesus . 2 tim. 1. 13. when for the time ye ought to be teachers , ye have need that one teach you again the first principles of the oracles of god , and are become such as have need of milke , and not of strong meat . heb. 5. 12. london , printed for iohn rothwell , and are to be sold at his shop at the signe of the sunne and fountaine in pauls church-yard neer the little north-gate . 1650. to the christian reader . the publique catechizing of children by way of familiar dialogue in short and plaine questions & answers , though it be scrupled by some , as if it wanted scripture warrant : yet such as acknowledge children to be members of christs kingdome and church , ( as all but antipaedobaptists doe ) mar. 10. 14. they cannot deny , that ( being members of christs house ) the stewards of his house must ( in faithfulnesse to christ , and them ) dispence a portion of spirituall food to them in due season , luke 12. 42. and evident it is by daily experience that long discourses ( sermon-wise ) runne over childrens heads ( like water over a mill , that grinds no meale at all ) and passe their capacity . no way of instruction is so proper for them , as that which the prophet describeth as most suitable to the understanding of children , line upon line , here a little and there a little ( isai 28. 9 , 10. ) which can no way so conveniently be dispensed , as in briefe and familiar questions and answers put into their mouthes . but as this way of short and familiar catechizing is the fittest portion of young childrens bread : so there is a larger doctrine of catechisme , containing the whole body of divinity , which being solidly compacted together , and evidently confirmed from scripture light , and familiarly delivered to the apprehensions of gods people , it will be a seasonable portion for children of riper age : not only for their further building up in the faith and obedience of the doctrine of the gospel : but also for their establishment in the truth , that they be not pluckt away with the error of the wicked . hence luther had his major as well as his minor catechismus : and beza his larger confession of the faith as well as his shorter . yea the apostle paul ( whose example was now precedentiall , as being indeed authenticall and binding to imitation ) he committed to timothy a platform of sound and wholsome words , in faith and love : which he commanded and charged him , not onely to hold fast himself , 2 tim. 1. 13. but likewise to commit the same to faithfull men , who might be able to teach others also , 2 tim. 2. 2. this charge , as it then was ( and alwaies will be ) weighty , and seasonable : so never more important and necessary , then in this capritious and fastidious age , when men will nor suffer wholsome doctrine , but having itching eares and wits , doe turn away their hearts from the truth , and are given up to such empty and windy notions , wherein it is hard to judge whether arrogancy or ignorance be the more predominent : arrogance of higher attainements in christ , or ignorance of the true christ , and of life in him . now for casting in some helpe , ( by the grace of christ ) to prevent the spreading of such a gangrene of vanity and apostacy ; and to establish the people of god in the truth of the doctrine which is according to godlinesse : our reverend brother ( according to the precious talent of wisdom , and found judgement given unto him , &c. out of his faithfull love to the flock of christ ) he hath compiled this ensuing platform of wholsome doctrine , in way of a larger catechisme : wherein you shall finde the summe of the doctrine of christian religion , with pithy solidity and orderly dexterity digested together ; and with clear evidence of truth confirmed from the holy scriptures : and both with such familiar plainnesse of savory language , as ( by the blessing of christ ) the simple-honest-hearted reader may be informed and established in the highest truths , and the most intelligent may be refreshed and comforted , in revising and recounting the treasures of wisdome and knowledge which they have received and embraced , and the grounds upon which they have believed ; and all may be led on in the constant profession and practice of the faith and love which is in christ jesus . so we commend this ensuing treatise to the diligent perusall of the christian reader ; and both it and thee to the rich blessing of the grace of christ , and rest thine to serve in the faith and love of the gospel , john cotton . john wilson . the grounds and principles of christian religion . chap. i. of catechizing as an introduction to that which followeth . quest . what is catechizing ? ans. an instructing of the people in the grounds , or principles , or fundamentall points of religion . q. how are these catechisticall , and fundamentall points called in the holy scripture ? a. they are called thge foundation a , the first principles of the oracles of god b , the beginning of the doctrine of christ , c the entrance into gods word , d milke for babes , e and the form of wholsom words f . q. how may the warrantablenesse of this kind of teaching appeare ? a. both by expresse testimony of scripture g , and because catechising is nothing else but the drawing of the doctrine of religion into briefe summes ; and this hath plentifull warrant in the word h . q. what need is there of this kind of teaching ? a. the doctrine of catechisme being milke for babes , and the laying of the foundation , there cannot but be great need thereof ; for all men know the foundation must be layd afore there can be any building ; and babes must have milke afore they be fed with stronger meat . q. what is the benefit of catechising ? a. it is a means of well grounded knowledge , i and of profiting by sermons ; the want whereof being an hinderance that men cannot profit by other higher points of doctrine k . q. what else may be the benefit thereof ? a. it is a means to prevent apostasie l and the infection of errour , which they that are ignorant and unstable are apt to be seduced withall m . q. doe you then think that the doctrine of catechisme is wholsome and usefull to the soules of gods people ? a. as common and ordinary meats are most wholsome to the body , more then curious and dainty dishes : so the doctrine of catechisme is specially wholsome to the soule , and therefore is expresly called the form of wholsome words n . q. how should the doctrine of catechisme be handled ? a. briefly , many things being contracted into narrow summes , for the helping of memory o , and yet plainly p , as may be for the understanding of the simple . q. what are we to think of that usuall way of catechizing by questions and answers ? a. this way of teaching hath plentifull warrant in the scriptures q , and is suitable to the notation , and signifitation of the word catechising , which is taken from that returne or answer which is given in an eccho q. who are to be catechised ? a. all that have need thereof , as being not well instructed in these points ; and therefore little children r are to be catechised as soon as they shall be able to learn , and others also that are ignorant s or children in understanding . q. but is it not a shame for persons of yeers to be catechised ? a. it is a shame , and justly reproveable as a sinne , when persons grown to yeeres are so ignorant as to have need to be catechised . heb. 5. 5. 12 , 13. 1 cor. 15. 34. q. but how if they be not willing to be catechised ? a. it is much more a sinne and shame , if being ignorant they refuse to have their ignorance holpen by being instructed , psal. 58. 5. prov. 17 , 22. & 13. 18. & 15. 32. q. but is it not indeed a reproach and shame unto a man to be catechised ? a. it is so farre from being a shame , that indeed it is the duty of all to be willing to learn u , and therefore not a shame unto any ; but the commendation of every one that is so willing x chap. 2. of the holy scriptures . q. you have shewed that to be instructed in the principles of religion , is both warrantable , needfull , and profitable ; tell likewise whence we must take direction for attaining wel-grounded knowledge in these principles , and all other points of religion ? a. out of those sacred books or writings , which are called the holy scriptures . q. hath the word and will of god alwaies been set down in writing ? a. no : moses was the first penman of holy scripture , who iived not till above two thousand yeeres after the creation . q. how was the will of god made known to his people in those times afore the scriptures were written ? a. by divers and sundry meanes a , as by visions b , by dreames c , by visible signes d , and by audible voyce e . q. why did god afterward cause his will to be set down in writing ? a. that it might be the better preserved f , that it might be conveyed to posterity g , and that it might be an infallible standard to try all doctrines by h . q. what are the books of holy scriptures ? a. the bookes of the old testament i as they are expressed in our bibles . q. vvhy are these writings called holy ? a. they are called holy k because they have an holy authour , which is god l , were written by pen-men who were holy men m , and because the doctrine which is conteined in them is all for the promoting of holinesse in us n . q. how may it he proved that these bookes are indeed the word of god ? a. because it is said they were given by inspiration of god o , and that the penmen of them spake as they were moved , or acted by the holy ghost p. q. how elseb a. by the wonderfull efficacy of them , as in other things , so in this , that they enter into the heart , for conviction , and humiliation q , and are mighty through god to convert and comfort the soule r . q. how else may it be proved that the scriptures are the word of god ? a. because they must either be the word of god , and have him for the author of them , or else some creature must be the author of them ; which latter is not possible . q. it is true indeed , if no creature be the author of them , then god the creator must ; but why may not some creature be their author ? a. a good creature , angel or man , could never be so impious , presumptuous , and blasphemous , as to father his own doings upon god , falsly making him the author of them ; and a wicked creature would never shew such care and zeale for the glory of god , such dislike and detestation of all kind of sinne , as the book of the scriptures doth . q. what particular uses are the scriptures profitable for ? a. for the teaching of true doctrine , and convincing the contrary , for correction or reformation of errors in life , and for instructing unto good duties , 2 tim. 3. 16. q. are the scriptures a compleat and sufficient rule of direction for all points of faith and life ? a. yea ; for they were written for that very end , that we might believe on christ jesus , and believing have eternall life through his name s : and they are able to make one wise unto salvation through the faith which is in christ jesus t q. how else may this sufficiency and perfection of the scriptures appeare ? a. it may appeare also by this , in that by the scriptures , the man of god , who needs more abilities then other men , may be perfect , and throughly furnished unto all good works u ; and because it is a cursed thing to adde any thing thereto w . q. doth the knowledge of the scriptures belong unto all , or onely to the learned ? a. not onely magistrates x and ministers y , but every housholder z , yea simple people a ; yea women b , young men c , and children d , ought to be acquainted with the scriptures ; and therefore the knowledge of them doth belong unto all sorts of people . chap. 3. of god . q. you have shewed that the meanes of well grounded knowledge is the holy scripture ; tell me now what it is that the scriptures doe especially teach us ? a. they teach us especially the saving knowledge of god , and of jesus christ . a q. how may it be proved that there is a god ? a. the scriptures doe abundantly , and plainly testifie it b ; and the creation of the world doth shew it c . q. how doth the creation of the world shew that there is a god ? a. even as a faire and sumptuous building doth shew that some body was the maker of it , so this great world doth shew there was a maker of it which is god . heb. 3. 4. q. but why might not the world be without beginning and have its being of it selfe ? a. because then the world should be god , for that which hath its being of its self , and is without beginning , is god . q. how else may it be proved that there is a god ? a. the succession of day , and night , and other seasons with the sustentation , and ordering of the creatures and the motions of them , doth plainly witnesse that there is a god . psal. 19. 2. 3. acts. 14. 17. amos. 4 13. & 5. 8. q. how may this be expressed in some familiar comparison . a. when a ship is seene at sea with her sayles spread , and her passage rightly guided unto the harbour , it appeareth thereby , that there were men that guided the same ; for if there were no men , there would never be any ships upon the sea : even so the preservation of the great ship of the world , and the guidance of its motions , doth evidently shew , that there is a god by whom the same is preserved , and guided . q. what else may be a further proofe that there is a god ? a. that there is a god is manifestly declared by the strange and wonderfull plagues and judgments , that sometimes are inflicted upon notorious sinners upon earth . exod. 8. 19. & 9. 16. psal. 9. 16. & 58. 10. 11 : & 79 10. q. what may be thought of those accusations , and terrors of conscience , that sometimes are found in men , upon the committing of haynous sins , though knowne to no man living , but to the sinner himselfe ? a. this also is another testimony that there is a god , before whose judgment seate a man must answer for his deedes ; for otherwise why should a man be afraid where no feare is ? rom. 2. 15. isa. 33. 14. psal. 14. 5. & 53. 5. q. how many gods are there ? a. no more but one . deut 4. 39 , & 6. 4. isa 44. 6. 8. & 45. 5. 18. 1 cor 8. 4. 6. eph. 4. 6. q. why may there not be more gods then one ? a. because that is contrary to the nature of god which is to be infinite , and everlasting , that is the first , and the last ; now there cannot be many infinites , nor many firsts and lasts , but one only . q. how else doth the nature of god shew that there can be no more but one god ? a. it is the nature of god to have his being of himselfe , and so give being to whatsoever else hath being ; for so much is signified by the word iehovah . exod. 3. 14. & 6. 3. & 15. 3. q. and how doth this prove that there can be no more but one god ? a. because if there were many gods , then either they must one give being to the other , or each one have his being of himself , both which are utterly impossible . q. why might not one of them give being to the other ? a. because then that other could not bee god , as not having his being of himselfe . q. and why might they not be many gods , each one having his god-head of himselfe ? a. because then none of them could be god , as not giving being to all others which had being . q. though there be but one god , yet is there not more persons , or subsistences in the godhead then one ? a. yes ; the scriptures doe apparently witnesse that in the unity of the divine essence , there is a plurality of the divine persons . gen. 1. 26. & 3. 22. & 11. 7. isai. 6. 8. & 41. 22 , 23. q. how many are the persons in the godhead ? a. they are three , the father , the son , and the holy-ghost , math. 3. 16 , 17. & 28. 19. ioh. 14. 16 , 17. & 15. 26. 2 cor. 13 , 14. gal. 4. 6. 1 ioh. 5. 7. q. whether are these three , the father , the son , and the holy-ghost severall , and distinct persons , or onely severall names , and titles of one , and the same person . a. the father is not the sonne but another person ; a the son is not the father , but another ; b and the holy ghost is neither the father nor the son , but another ; c and therefore they are each distinct from other as severall , and distinct persons . q. what are the personall properties , whereby each is distinguished from other ? a. the property of the father is to beget the son d , the property of the son to be begotten of the father e , the property of the holy ghost to proceed from the father and the son f , who is therefore called the spirit of the father g , and of the son h , q. are every one of these persons god ? a. yea : of the father there is lesse question , and the scriptures doe witnesse that the son is god i , and also that the holy ghost is god k , q. you have shewed that there is a god , and and onely one god , and three persons ; tell me now what god is ? a. god is so infinite , and incomprehensible , that no creature is able fully to comprehend or know him . exod. 33. 20. 23. iob. 26. 14. & 11. 7 , 8 , 9. 1 tim. 6. 16. q. how then may we conceive of him ? a. as he hath revealed himselfe to us l , in his back parts m , which are his divine attributes n , and by his workes o , q. what are those attributes or back parts of god ? a. wisdome p power , q goodnesse r , truth s , justice t , mercy u , and the like , in all which he is infinite w , and everlasting x . q. what are the works of god ? a. they are three , decree , creation , and providence . chap. 4. of gods decree . q. what is gods decree ? a. that whereby he hath before determined and decreed with himselfe whatsoever shall come to passe . q. doe you say that gods decree reacheth to all things whatsoever cometh to passe in time ? a. yea all things whatsoever have been , are , or that shall be hereafter , were before decreed , and determined by god . eph. 1. 11. act. 15. 18. q. what are some of the principall things that are so decreed ? a. things that are most casuall a things that are most freely done by the creature , b and things wherein the creature commits abundance of sin c , q. what else ? a. such things as seeme small and little d , are also great , and speciall events . q. what are some of those great and speciall events that are decreed by the lord ? a. the comming and death of christ , and all the workes of his mediatorship e , the salvation of the godly f , the damnation of the wicked g , the day of every mans particular death h and the day of the generall judgement i , q. when were all these things decreed by god ? a. before the world was created , even from everlasting , 1 cor. 2. 7. eph. 1. 4. & 3. 11. 1 pet. 1. 20. 2 tim. 1. 9. q. what was the cause of gods decrees ? a. the cause that moved him to decree was nothing foreseene in the creature , but his own will , and good pleasure . rom. 9. 11. 18. matth. 11. 25. 26. but sith some are appointed by the decree of god to damnation , if his will be the cause of that decree , how is that just ? yea , it is most just and righteous notwitstanding , rom. 13 , 14. q. how may that appeare . a. because the will of god is the rule of all righteousnesse k , and because the lord hath absolute power over all creatures , as the potter hath power over his clay l . q how else may the justice of the lord in his decrees appeare ? a. because what ever be the lords decree , there is no man actually condemned till he be first defiled with sinne . rom. 3. 9 , 19. & 2. 6 , 9. genes . 4. 7. q. vvhether is the decree of god certaine , and immutable , or such as may be changed , and not take effect ? a. it is altogether unchangeable , and shall surely be accomplished , psal. 33. 11. & 135. 6. isa. 46. 10. & 14. 27. rom. 9. 11. q. if the decree of god be unchangeable , then what needs man to be carefull in the use of means for his owne good ? a. yes , the meanes must be used notwithstanding god decree ; and that partly because the meanes are appointed , and decreed of god as well as the end m ; and partly because the revealed will and command of god is our rule , and not his secret decree n. q. do you think then that gods decree doth not excuse men from blame in the sinnes which they do commit . a. it doth not excuse them at all o , and the reason is because the decree of god infuseth no corruption into the hearts of men , not constraineth them to sinne against their will , but they sinne most freely , and willing of their own accord . q is the decree of god secret within himselfe or revealed and made knowne ? a. it is secret within himselfe , till himselfe do reveale it , and therefore further then so it is not to be searched into . rom. 11. 33. 34 1 cor. 2● 16. deut. 29. 29. q. how doth god reveale his decree ? a. partly by his word , wherein this doctrine is plainly , and plentifully taught p , and partly by the execution and accomplishment of things in time . q. how doth the execution or accomplishment of things reveale gods decree ? a. yea very clearely , because nothing was decreed but he executes the same in time ; and whatsoever is brought to passe in time was determined and decreed afore : ephes. 1. 11. psal. 135. 6. isa. 46. 10. q. how many wayes may the decree of god be considered ? a. as respecting all the creatures in generall , or as it respects the reasonable creatures , angels and men , in speciall . q. what are the parts of gods decree as it respecteth man ? a. election and reprobation . q. what is election ? a. it is the decree of god or his predestination q whereby of his owne free love r and good pleasure s he hath from everlasting t appointed and chosen some certaine men u to the obtaining of grace w , and salvation x by christ y , for the praise of his glorious grace z , q. and what is reprobation ? a. it is the decree of god wherby of his meere will and good pleasure a some certaine men b are not elected and ordained to life c , but on the on the contrary are appointed to destruction or damnation d to be inflicted upon them for their sinne e , to the praise of gods glorious justice f , chap. 5. of creation . q. had this world a beginning by creation , or was it from everlasting ? a. the scripture in many places , and speci ▪ in the first of gen. doth declare that the world was not from everlasting , but had a beginning by the lords creating of it , heb. 11. 3. reu. 4. 11. prov. 8. 22. &c. ps. 90. 2. eph. 1. 4. q. who was it that created the world ? a. god that is without beginning , and hath his being of himselfe , he it was who gave beginning , and being to the world . gen. 1. 1. act. 17. 24. isay. 40. 28. & 44. 24. q. whether was this the worke of the father , or of the sonne , or of the holyghost ? a. of every person in the trinity ; not of the father onely but also of the sonne a , and of the holyghost b . q. what are the things that are created ? a. all things without exception , that have a being , except god onely who did create them , act. 4. 24. & 17. 24. & 14 , 15. gen. 2. 1. rev. 4. 11. q. doe you meane that the third heaven was also created by god ? a. yes , for that heaven is said to be a city whose builder , & maker is god , heb. 11. 10. 16. q. but what thinke you of the angels , were they also created by god ? a. angels are the cheife of those invisible things , those thrones and dominions , principalities , and powers , which are expressely mentioned to have been created by the lord . col. 1. 16. q. wherewith did god make the world ? a. though men must have tooles , and instruments , and sometimes more hands then their owne for the effecting of works ; yet when the lord made the world , with him it was not so . q. how then or wherewith did he make it ? a. he made it himselfe alone c , and without any other meanes but onely by his word d . q whereof or of what materials did he create the world ? a. not of any praeexistent matter , but of nothing heb. 11. 3. rom. 4. 17. q. how do you meane when you say that all things are made of nothing ? for the body of adam was made of the dust of the ground , and fishes of the waters , and therefore it may seeme all things were not made of nothing . a. i meane that some things were made of nothing without any matter at all , and that the first matter whereof other things were made , was not eternall , but was immediately created of nothing ; and that that first matter was so in ▪ disposed to be the things that were made of it , that no lesse a power was seene in making other things out of it , then in making that first matter , or the lumpe it selfe ; as it was as great a worke to bring great whales out of the waters , as to bring forth the water out of nothing ; and in these respects , all things may be said to be made of nothing . q. in what time was the world created ? a. every particular thing quickly , and as it were in an instant e , and the whole in the space of six dayes f . q. what was the worke of each day ? a. the worke of the first day was heaven , the darke and deepe lumpe of earth , and waters , and light . q. what of the second day ? a. the firmament which is called heaven . q. what of the third day ? a. the gathering of the waters together , which is called sea , the drying of the earth , and making it fruitfull . q. what of the three last dayes ? a. on the fourth day sun , moone , and starres , on the fifth day fish , and foule , on the sixt day beasts and creeping things , and man . q. when was the highest heaven , and angels created ? a. most likely on the first day , gen. 1. 1. iob. 38 7. q. why was god sixe dayes in making the world ? a. not because hee needed so much time , but that we might more distinctly consider of his workes . q. why did god make the world ? a. not because he needed it , for he is alsufficient in and of himselfe , not needing any thing , but giving into all life , and breath , and all things act. 17. 25. q. did he make it out of necessity of nature , ot because he could not choose ? a. no , for had he pleased , he might have made it sooner , or later , or not at all . q. why then did he make it ? a. because it so pleased him , revel. 4. 11. q. for what end did god make the world ? a. for the declaration of his owne glory . prov. 16. 4. rom. 11. 36. col. 1. 16. q. what was the state of all things by creation ? a. god looked upon all the worke which he had made , and behold it was very good . gen. 1. 31. chap. 6. of gods providence . q. what is the providence of god ? a. that whereby god doth preserve , and governe , dispose , and order all creatures with all their actions . a. what scriptures do shew that there is such a providence of god ? q. many , and namely these , ioh. 5. 17. eph. 1. 11. act. 17. 25. 28. lam. 3. 37 : eccles. 3. 1. 2 &c. q. how els may the same be proved ? a. such is the wisedme , and knowledge of god , that nothing can come to passe , but he must needes know it , and such is his omnipotency , that what he absolutely would not have to be , he is able to hinder it , and therefore nothing falls out but he seeth it , and by his providence hath an hand therein . q. what are the parts of gods providence , or the severall acts of it ? a. preserving of the creatures a and goverment of them b . q. what need is there of the providence of god for the preservation of creatures ? a. yes very much , aswell as of his power for the creating of them . q. how may that appeare ? a. not onely because making , and preserving of the creatures , are coupled together as acts of the same power c . but also because otherwise the creatures could not continue in being , but would soon returne to nothing d . q. and why must the government of the creatures be also ascribed to god ? a. partly because it would argue inperfection in god , if he should make creatures , and leave the government of them to others ; and partly because the creatures would never certainly ▪ attaine the ends for which they were created , if they were not governed by the same power by which they were created . q. vvhat are the things whereto the providence of god doth extend ? a. all things without exception of any . rom. 11. 36 eph. 1 11. q. vvhat are some sorts of them ? all persons , and all living things , though never so meane e , and all the very accidents , and circumstances of actions , as the times , and seasons of them f and the like . q. what kinde of actions of the creatures are ordered by the providence of god ? a. all kinde of actions , whether they be great or small g , whether they be of kindnesse , and favour unto men , or of judgement & correction h . vvhat else ? a. actions that are most contingent , and casuall i , and actions wherein the creature is most sinfull , and wicked k . q. how farre forth hath god an hand by his providence in the sinfull actions of creatures ? a. partly by permitting sinne to enter , when he could easily hinder the same , if he pleased ; and partly by disposing and ordering of it for good ends . a. how doth god permit the entrance of sinne ? a. partly by leaving men to themselves , not bestowing upon them his grace , that might keep them from sinne l , and partly by letting sathan loose upon them to be blinded , and mis-led by his temptations m . q. how is this just that god should deny the assistance of his grace , and leave men to themselves , and the temptations of sathan ? a yes , it is very just , because he is debtor to none , but may bestow his grace where , and upon whom he pleaseth . rom. 11. 35. mat. 20. 15. q. vvhat else may be said for the cleering of gods justice herein ? a. god being the judge of the world may punish sinne with what punishment he seeth meete , and so by giving sinners up unto further sinne , ps. 8● . 11. 12. rom. 1. 24 , 25 , 26. &c. 2 thes 2. 11 , 12. q vvhat may be some instance of gods disposing and ordering of sinne for good ends ? a. the sinne of joseph brethren when they sold him into egypt , which god disposed , and ordered for the preserving of iacob and his house in time of famine . gen 45. 5. 7. & 50. 20. q vvhat else ? a. the sinne of amnon , and absolom which god disposed and ordered for the correction , and humiliation of david . 2 sam. 12. 10. 11 , 12. q. vvhat may be a third instance hereof ? a. the great sinne , and wickednesse of them who put the lord jesus christ to death , as fowle a fact as the sunne ever saw , and yet even this did the lord dispose , and order for the redemption and salvation of his elect , act. 2. 23. & 4. 27 , 28. q. but if god by his providence have a stroake in ordering of the sinnes of men , is not god himselfe then tainted with sinne ? a. no , by no meanes : for god cannot be tempted of evill n , neither doth any sin proceed from him o , but contrarily he is then holy , holy , holy , when he gives men up to be hardened in their sinnes p . q. vvhat else may be said for the further learning of this truth ? a. god is so far from being tainted hereby with the uncleannesse of sinne , that his wisdome and goodnesse doth hereby the more appear , in that he can worke good by evill instruments , and make even sinne it selfe to seeme to his glory . q but whether may not sinners then hereby have excuse for themselves , and lay the blame of their sin upon god ? a. if god did infuse corruption into the hearts of men , or incline them or command them to sins who else were unwilling so to doe , then there were more colour for this demand ; but this cannot be affirmed with truth . q. vvhat then is truth in this case ? a. god made man altogether righteous and upright q , and gives men an holy commandement that prohibits all sinne r , and yet they sinne of their owne accord s , and therefore their destruction ( and so their sinne as cause thereof ) is of themselves t . q. may not this be illustrated by some similitude , to shew how god may have an hand in the evill actions of men , and yet all the sinfulnesse of the action be wholly of the creature and not of god ? a. as he that spurs a lame horse , is the cause of his going , but not of his halting , which is from the beast himselfe ; and as the sunne shining on a carcasse , or a dunghill , is the cause of the savour , but not of the stench which is from the carcasse it selfe ; even so it is in this case . q. how or in what manner doth the providence of god put forth , and shew it selfe ? a. most freely and as it pleaseth him u , most commonly in the ordinary use of the means w and sometimes it pleaseth him to work without meanes x . q. how else doth the providence of god put forth and shew itselfe ? a. sometimes by working great and mighty workes by weake meanes y , sometimes by disapppointing the best and the most probable meanes that they become ineffectuall , z ; and sometimes by working contrary to all meanes , and the naturall course of things a . chap. 7. of angels . q. what are the kindes of gods providence ? a. it is either generall towards all creatures , or specially towards some . q. what are those speciall creatures which the providence of god doth extend unto ? a. angels and men . q. vvhat is the nature of angels ? a. they are spirits b or spirituall substances , and therefore invisible that they cannot be seene with bodily eyes , no more then the wind that bloweth , or the soules of men , nor are they preserved by sleep and food , & raiment , as living bodyes are c ; and yet they are immortall , and cannot dye d . q. vvhat else are we to know concerning the nature of angels ? a. that they are creatures of excellent strength e , great acutenesse of understanding f , very swift and speedy in their motion g , and by creation very pure , and holy h . q. what is the number of angels ? a. though they be not infinite , yet their number is very great , and to us they are innumerable . dan. 7. 10. ps. 68. 17. mat. 26. 53. heb. 12. 22 q. what end and office were they created for ? a. to celebrate the lords praises , and to execute his commands i , specially towards the heirs of salvation k . q do the angels continue in that estate wherein they were first created ? a. not all , for a great many fell away from that happy condition who are now become devils , ioh. 8. 44. 2. pet. 2. 4. iude 6. q. may the rest also fall away , and perish with the devils ? a. no , because they are elected of god , and so for ever upholden in that good estate . 1 tim. 5. 27. chap. 8. of the estate of man in innocency by creation . q how doth the providence of god exercise it selfe towards man ? a. in a fourefold estate ; the state of innocency by creation afore the fall , the state of corruption by and since the fall , the state of grace in this world , and the state of glory in the world to come . q what was the state of man in innocency by by creation afore the fall ? a. god did as it were deliberate with himselfe , the father son and spirit consulting together about the making of man a , and therefore it must needs be that the state of man at the first by gods creating of him , was very excellent . q. wherein did his cheife excellency consist ? a. in that he was made in the iikenesse and image of god . gen 1. 26. 27. q. what was that image of god ? a. principally it stood in knowledge , righteousnesse , and true holynesse col. 3. 10. eph. 4. 24. eccles. 7. 29. q. what was the knowledge that man was indued withall in that estate ? a. he did then truely , and distinctly know god , and the will of god b , with the nature of the creatures c , and his own present happinesse d . q. what was that holynesse and righteousnesse ? a. that his will , and affections , with his whole heart and soule , was exactly conformable to the revealed will of god . q. did not man in that state besides this conformty to god enjoy communion with god ? a. yes , at that time there was great amity , and love betweene god and man e , all the destance that is now being risen since as the effect and fruit of sinne . q did not the place where man was then put , something set forth his happinesse in that estate ? a. yes ; for he was placed in paradise which was an excellent garden planted by god himselfe , and abounding with all delight , and pleasures . gen. 2. 8 , 9 , 10 , 15. q but seeing man was to worke and labour in the garden in dressing and keeping it , how doth this agree with happinesse ? a. yea very well , because happinesse doth not consist in idlenesse ; and as for his labour , it then was , and alwayes should have bin without paine , and wearinesse , if man had continued in that estate . q. what was mans condition at that time in respect of food and raiment ? a. the earth at that time was furnished with plenty , and variety of wholesome and delightsome fruits , and he had liberty to eat of them all , except onely of the tree of knowledge of good and evill . gen. 2. 16. q. his food then was excellent ; but what was his apparrell ? a. such was the strength and beauty of his body outwardly , and the perfection of gods image , wherewith he was clothed inwardly , that he had no neede of other bodily apparrell either in respect of shame or season of weather , and therefore he lived naked . gen. 2. 25. q. what was his condition in respect of other creatures ? a. all the fishes of the sea , all the birds of the ayre , and beasts of the field were all of them subject to his dominion , and rule , gen. 1. 20 , 28 , and 2. 19 , 20. q. but what helpe had he in his condition against solitarinesse ? a. the lord saw it was not good for a man to be alone , and that amongst all the other creatures there was not a meete helpe for him , and therefore of a ribbe of his side he made a woman and brought her to the man to be his wife . gen. 2. 18. &c. q but why was man created last of all ceatures ? a. this also doth declare his excellency and happy estate by creation ; for being made last it appeareth thereby , that he was under god the end for which the other creatures were made , and so was more excellent then they , as the end is more excellent then the meanes . q how else did the time of mans creation declare his happinesse ? a. it appeareth thereby , that god would not make him before he had first provided for him , but brought him into the world as into a great store-house already fully furnished with all variety of good things that might be for his service and comfort . chap. 9. of the fall of our first parents . q. you have already shewed the state of man in innocency by creation , what things are to be dered concerning the state of corruption ? the beginning thereof which was the fall of our first parents , and the consequents of that fall in respect of sinne and punnishment . q. what scriptures do prove that adam and eve did fall from that state of innoceney and purity where in they were created ? a. many , but most especially the third chap. of genes . eccles. 7. 29. isa. 43. 27. rom. 5. 12 , 18 , 19. 1. tim. 2 , 14. q who did fall ? a. first eve a , then adam b , and in him all man kind c that proceed from adam after the ordinary way . q. how did man fall ? a. by transgression d and disobedience e to the commandement of god , which was that they should not eate of the tree of knowledge of good and evill f . q wherein was this such a great offence ? for it may seeme a small matter to eat an apple or other fruit forbidden . a. this sinne was not small , but very great , as comprehending in it an heape and multitude of many other hainous evills . q what are some of those evils comprehended in this sinne ? a. there was great umbeliefe to doubt of the truth of gods threatning , there was great idolatry in preferring the counsell of satan afore the commandment of god , and great blasphemy in yeelding to satan , when he said god forbade them that tree because he did envy their happinesse . q. what evill else was there in that offence ? a. there was discontent with their estate , though it was exceeding good , abominable pride that would be like unto god , and horrible unthankfulnesse to sinne against god that had so highly advanced them . q. what further evil was in it ? a. there was curiosity in desiring to know more then god would have them to know ; also also they sinned needlesly and wilfully , that commandement being so equall and easie to have beene kept . q. how may that appeare ? a. because man then had no inward concupiscence or corruption of nature , as we now have , that could move him to breake the commandement , nor was he any necessitated thereto through any want , having such variety and abundance of other fruits , whereof he might freely eat . q. what may be a last particular to shew the hainousnesse of this first offence ? a. man shewed himselfe herein to be wretchedly carelesse of the good of his posterity , to whom in this act he was both unkind and cruell . q. how may that appeare ? a. in that by this meanes he brought sinne and misery upon them all . rom. 5. 12 , 18 , 19. 1 cor. 15. 22. q. why should this sinne of adam bring the guilt of sinne and misery upon all his posterity ? a. because he stood at this time as a publike person in the roome of all mankind , we being all considered in him as members in the head , as children in his loines , as debtors in our surety , and as branches in our roote . q. vvhat was the cause of this great and lamentable offence ? a. it was not any weaknesse or want of power in man to stand ; for being made in gods image he might have stood if he would . q. you thinke then he was not compelled and forced to sinne and breake the commandment ? a. god was so farre from forcing him to sin that he gave him power to have obeyed , and threatned him with death in case of disobedience . q. but might not satan compell him to it ? a. satan could doe nothing against him by compulsion or constraint , and therefore doth onely assault him by crafty and subtill perswasions ? q. vvhat then was the cause of this their sinne ? a. the principall cause was man himselfe in abusing his owne freewill , to receive the temptation , which he might have resisted if he would , eccles. 7. 29. q how farre was satan a cause of that first offence ? a. though he could not constraine man to sinne without his own consent , yet he was justly to be blamed for that sinne of man , in that it was through his entisements that man was drawen unto it . q. how did he entise man to it ? a. by abusing the serpent to seduce the woman , and the helpe of the woman to seduce the man . gen. 3. 1 , 6. q. vvhat are the effects and fruits of his fall ? a. by means of this fall both the serpent and satan became accursed , and adam and eve and their posterity plunged into a depth of sin and misery . gen. 3. chap. 10. of sinne ; the definition of it , and the distribution into original and actual . q. what is sinne ? a. transgression of the moral law of god , by a creature that is bound to keepe it ? q. why is sin said to be a transgression of the law ? a. because the apostle iohn doth expresly so call it a , and elsewhere it is said where there is no law b , there is no transgression q. why say you that sinne is a transgression of the law of god onely ? for are not transgressions of the lawfull commandements of parents and other superiors , sins also ? a. yes so farre as they tend to the dishonour of superiors , such transgressions are also sins ; but the reason of that is because obedience to the lawfull commands of superiors is enjoyned in the fifth commandement of the law of god , in which respect god is said to be the onely law-giver iam. 4. 12. q. but why doe you make sinne a transgression onely of the morall law , sith unbeliefe and impenitency though they be against the gospel , are also sinnes , and so were violations of the ceremoniall law that was given to israel by moses ? a. violation of the ceremonies by the people of israel was a sinne , because the observation of them was enjoyned to that people in the second commandement of the moral law , like a●… the observation of baptisme and the lords supper are now enjoyned to christians by the same commandement . q and why are unbeliefe and impenitenci●… sinnes ? a. though these be directly against the gospel , yet they are also sinnes when they are found in them to whom the gospels comes , as being against the first commandement of the law , which enioynes obedience to god in whatsoever he hath shewed or shall shew to be his wil . q. why do you make sinne a transgression of the law by a creature ? a. because god the creator may do things forbidden in the law , and yet not sinne , as to kill and destroy ; because the law is not a rule to him but to us , his owne will being his rule , eph. 1. 11. ps. 115. 3. q. why is it added , by a creature bound unto it ? a. because though angels may sinne , yet many things in the law , specially in the fifth and seventh commandement are not applyable to angels ; and as for other creatures , the law is no rule to them at all . q. who among men are tainted with sinne ? a. all that are meere men , none excepted eccles. 7. 20. rom. 3. 23. and 5. 12. q. how many sorts of sinne are there ? a. besides that first offence of eating the forbidden fruit , there is the corruption of nature which is usually called originall sinne , and the sinnes of life which are usually called actuall . q. what is the nature of originall sinne ? wherein doth it consist ? a. it consists in the losse of gods image wherein man was created at the first c , and in a contrary vitiousnesse instead thereof d , q. what is the measure or greatnesse of this sinne ? a. it contaynes not onely some one or few particular evils , but a masse of all iniquities , even the most abominable that can be named or imagined rom. 3. 12. 13. &c. q. how farre doth this sinne extend ? a. it overspreads the whole race of mankind as a contagious leprosie and epidemical disease e , and infects all the powers and parts both of soule and body f . q. how is this sinne propagated ? a. it is conveyed from parents to children not by imitation but by generation ; gen 5. 3. psal. 51. 5. iob 14. 4. ioh. 3. 6. q. what do you understand by actuall sinnes ? a. all omissions of good g . and failing in the maner of doing it h , and all committing evill whether in thoughts i , words k , or deeds l , against any of the commandements of god . q. who are guilty of actuall sinnes ? a. all the children of men m ; and they that sinne the least , yet doubtlesse would do more if the lord did not restraine them n . q. but though all men be thus defiled with sinne , yet may not a naturall man doe some things that are good ? a. hee may do things that are good for the act or matter of them o , but his person not being accepted p , and hsi heart q . so exceedingly corrupted , therefore all that he doth as it proceeds from him , is corrupt also and so most odious unto god r , chap. 11. of the punishment of sinne . q. sith all the children of men are thus wofully defiled with sinne , what punnishment is due by reason of the sinne ? a. in one word all kind of death a , and cursednesse b . which in the particulars containes all the plagues that are written in gods book c , and many more which are not written d . q. what are the generall heads of those plagues ? a. they are temporall , and spirituall , and eternall . q. what are the temporall plagues . a. the cursing of the earth e , and the creatures made subject to vanity f , and the bodyes of men become subject to plagues and paines and death g . q. what else ? a. in name ignominie and reproach , both alive and after death h , and calamities in mens wives , children and friends i q. vvhat other outward miseries are there ? a. in the outward estate poverty and losses k , and their very blessings to be turned into curses l , q. vvhat are the spiritual miseries ? a. the losse of gods image and all comfortable communion with him m , with bondage to the divell n , and a necessity of sinning o . q. vvhat else are the spirituall miseries ? a. vvhen men are given up unto more sinn p as unto hardnesse of heart q , blindnesse of mind r and strong delusions s , q vvhat is the eternall miserie ? a. damnation and destruction in another world , 2 thes. 1. 9. iob. 5. 29. q. vvherein doth that consist ? a. in being deprived of all good , and in the contrary sense and feeling of evill . q. vvhat good shall the wicked be then deprived of ? a. they shall then be deprived of the favourable presence of god t , of the joyes of heaven u , of the society of the saints w , and all comfort of the creature , x , q. and what evill shall they then have the feeling of ? a. they shall feele unspeakeable torment both in soule and body , mar. 9. 43 , 44 , 45. luk. 16. 23 , 24. q. vvhat will be the effect thereof ? a. it wil cause weeping & gnashing of teeth y , the former through griefe and dolour , and both of them through indignation and despaire q. if they must be deprived of heaven , and of the presence of god and of his saints , what place and company shall they be in ? a. they shall be in hell as in a prison z , or deepe pitt a , or lake that burneth with fire and brimstone b , and their company shall be no other but the divell and his angels c . q. this punishment of the damned is in it selfe most dreadfull and terrible , but how long shall it continue ? a. the thing were something lesse grievous , if this misery would ever have an end ; but this is the aggravation of it that it must be everlasting , 2 thes. 1. 9. matth. 25. 41. 46. matth. 9. 43 , 44. chap. 12. of mans deliverance . q. having spoken of the state of man by creation , and his estate of corruption , let us now come to the third estate , the state of grace in this life ; and first tell me whether there be any ability in man to deliver himselfe from his sinfull and miserable estate ? a. none at all ; because man being dead in trespasses and sinnes , hath no more ability to recover himselfe to spirituall life , then he that is bodily dead to recover himselfe to bodily life . eph. 2. 1. & 4. 18. q. how else may this inability of man appeare ? a. man of himselfe is without strength a to any thing that is good ; and moreover , if he had power unto it , yet he hath no will to seek after god b , but to depart further and further from him c yea to expresse all enmity against him d q. what may be a further reason to shew that man cannot deliver himselfe ? a. man being a creature , is but finite ; and the majesty and justice of god which by sinne is offended and wronged , is infinite . q. what doe you infer from thence ? a. because there can be nothing in a finite sinning nature to satisfie an infinite offended majesty ; but such a nature must be ever in satisfying , and never have satisfied ; therefore it was not possible that man should deliver himselfe from his sinfull and miserable estate . q if man could not deliver himselfe , might be not be delivered by some other creature ? a. there is no man that can give a ransom to redeem another , so much as from bodily death e and much lesse from spiritual and eternal death . q. but if one man could not redeem another , what doe you say of other creatures ? a. other creatures are none of them of the same nature with man , and are all of them but finite , even the angels themselves ; and therefore none of them can make satisfaction to the infinite majesty of god . q. if infinite justice must needs he satisfied , and neither man nor other creature are able to doe this ; how then was there any possibility that man should ever be delivered from this wretched estate ? a. the mercy of god is so infinite that he might be willing that man should be delivered , and his wisdome such that he could finde out some way and means of deliverance ; and his power such that he was able to accomplish the way which his wisdom should devise ; and therefore there was a possibility that man should be delivered . q. but whether is there any way of deliverance already found out , and man actually recovered ? a. yes , the lord hath wrought redemption , and raised up an horne of salvation for his people , psal. 111. 9. luke 1. 69. q. is god himselfe then the authour of mans deliverance ? a. mans misery being sinne against god , and punishment from god , therefore god onely must be the authour of his deliverance , if he ever be delivered . q. what moved god to work mans deliverance ? a. not because he had any need of man e , for he could have been absolute and alsufficient of himselfe , if all men had perished everlastingly , as he was before man had any being . c q. did god procure mans deliverance , because man did so deserve ? a. man deserved it not , but the contrary , because he fell wilfully from that happy estate wherein he was created , whenas he might have continued happy if he would : therefore it had been no unrighteous thing if god had left him in that misery whereinto he had brought himselfe , pro. 1. 31. q. did the lord worke the deliverance of man , because man did importunately seek and sue unto him for the same ? a. man did not seek and sue unto god at all , but fled from him , gen 3. 8. rom. 3. 11. and if he had sought unto god for helpe , god was not bound to afford it ; and how much lesse when he sought it not ? q. if god did not worke the deliverance of man because himselfe had need of it , or because man did desire it , what then was the cause that moved him to it ? a. onely his free grace , mercy , and love , iohn 3. 16. eph. 2. 4 , 5. titus 3. 4 , 5. q. what is the true way and means of deliverance ? a. onely the lord jesus christ , genes 3. 15. acts 4. 12. 1 iohn 5. 12. chap. 13. of the person of christ , and his divine and humane nature ? q. what things are to be known and believed concerning christ ? a. his person , his office , his actions , the benefits that come by him , and the means how we are made partakers of him and all his benefits . q. what is his person ? a. it is god and man united together in one person . q. how may it be proved that christ is god ? a. by sundry places of scripture , wherein he is expresly so called , isa. 9. 6. iohn 1. 1. rom. 9. 5. phil. 2. 6. 1 iohn 5. 2● . q. how else ? a. because eternity a omnipotency b omniscience c and omnipresence d which are properties peculiar to god , are all of them ascribed unto christ . q. how else may the godhead of christ be proved ? a. because the creation of the world e the forgivenesse of sinnes f the working of miracles g which are workes that can be done by none but god , are all of them ascribed to him as the authour of them ; and because he is made a lawfull object of divine worship h q. why was it requisite that christ our saviour should be god ? a. that he might beare the weight of gods wrath without sinking under the same i that he might overcome death k and his sufferings might be of sufficient worth and value to satisfie the infinite justice of god l q. is christ also truely partaker of the nature of man ? a. yes , for he is frequently called man , and the sonne of man m and said to be made flesh n and partaker of flesh and blood o q. why was it requisite that he should be man ? a. that he might suffer death for us p sanctisie our nature q and that we might have accesse with boldnesse unto god r q. but sith he was god from everlasting , how came be to be man also ? a. when the fulnesse of time was come s he became man , not after the ordinary and usuall way of generation by man and woman together , but he was conceived by the holy ghost in the womb of a virgin , without a father t q. sith there are two natures in christ , the divine and humane , whether is christ then two persons ? a. by no means , but one onely , 1 cor. 8. 6. 1 tim. 2. 5. q. but is not christ a person in respect of his godhead ? a. yes , the second person in the blessed trinity . q. is not another man who hath the whole nature of man in him , both body and soule , a perfect person ? a. yes , it is even so . q. why then is not the humane nature in christ a distinct person ? a. because it never had subsisting and being of it selfe , but in the person of the son of god being assumed unto it from the first moment of its being , heb. 2. 16. q. if both the humane and divine nature be in christ , and yet christ but one person ; is then the godhead become the manhood , and the manhood the godhead ? a. not so ; this union of two natures in one person doth not confound the two natures , nor destroy the properties of either ; but these still remain unconfounded and distinct in that one person . chap. 14. of the office of christ to be a mediator . q. having spoken of the person of christ , tell in the next place what is christs office ? a. his office in the generall is to be a mediator between god and man , to worke reconciliation betwixt them . 1 tim. 25. 2 cor. 5. 18 , 19. q. what need was there of such a mediator ? a. very much need , because by the sinne of man there was now grown enmity between them , god being offended with man , and man being enemy to god . rom. 5. 9 , 10. col. 2. 21. q. is christ the onely mediator ? or are there not others that may be mediators also ? a. properly there is no other mediator between god and man but christ onely , 1 tim. 2. 5. iohn 14. 6. q. who gave christ a commission or calling to the office of a mediator ? a. as no man can lawfully intrude himselfe into any office without a lawfull calling , no more did christ intrude himselfe into the office of a mediator , but was lawfully called and authorized thereunto by the father , isa 42. 1 , 6. iohn 6. 29. & 10. 36. heb. 5. 4 , 5. q. how was he furnished with gifts and abilities for discharge of this office ? a. as god never calleth any to any office , but he gives them gifts requisite thereto : so christ was furnished with all wisdom & knowledge , and other gifts of the spirit , that might fully fit him for his office of mediator , col. 2. 3. isa. 11. 2. & 61. 1. & heb. 1. 9. iohn 3. 34. q. whether is christ mediator according to his humane nature , or according to his divine ? a. the office of mediation belongeth to whole christ , as he is god and man , and not in respect of either nature alone . q. how may that appeare ? a. a mediator should be a fit and middle person to deale between two that are at variance : but if our mediator be considered as god onely , he should then be too high to treat with man , and had he been man only he should have been too low for god . q. vvhat may be a further reason thereof ? a. if the acts of his mediation doe proceed from him , being considered onely as god , they then cannot be applicatory unto us ; and if they proceed from him onely as man , they then cannot be of sufficient value to be satisfactory unto god . q. doe you then think that in the execution of his office of mediator both the natures doe joyntly concurre ? a. it is even so indeed ; god-man , whose christ is our mediator . q. how long hath christ had this office ? a. in respect of gods decree he was appointed to it from eternity a in respect of vertue and efficacy he was mediator from the beginning of the world when need was b q. but when was he manifested in the flesh ? a. in respect of his manifestation in the flesh , he was given in the fulnesse of time in these latter daies , 1 pet. 1. 20. gal. 4. 4. 1 tim. 2. 6. q. vvhat is the effect and benefit of his mediatorship ? a. hereby god and man that were at enmity are reconciled together againe , and made one , col. 1. 20. eph. 1. 10. & 2. 14 , 15. chap. 15. of the covenant between god and man , the covenant of worke , and the covenant of grace , and the difference between them . q. how doth christ as mediator reconcile god and man again ? a. by making a new covenant and agreement betwixt them , which is called the covenant of grace ? q. is the covenant of grace made with respect to christ ? a. yea , had it not been for christs sake , and through his mediation , god would never have made such covenant with man . q. how may that be proved ? a. this covenant is said to be confirmed in christ a and christ is said to be the mediator of the covenant b the angell of the covenant c and sometimes the covenant it selfe d q what is this covenant of grace . a. that wherein god for christ his sake promiseth forgivenesse of sinnes , and everlasting happinesse to them that believe on christ . q is there not mention in scripture of some other covenant of god to man , besides this covenant of grace in christ ? a. yes , there is that generall covenant with mankind , that the word should not be drowned any more with water , and that the succession of day and night , and other seasons , should be maintained as long as the earth shall endure . gen. 9. 11. & 8. 22. q these covenants are onely concerning externall and earthly lessings ; but is there not some covenant concerning everlasting happinesse , besides that covenant of grace in christ ? a. yes , that which is usually called the covenant of works , gal. 4. 24 , 25. rom. 10. 5. q what is that covenant of works ? a. that whereby god promiseth all life and happinesse , upon condition of perfect obedience to the law in a mans own person , with a threatning of everlasting death & cursednesse for the least transgression , rom. ●0 . 5. gal. 3. 10. gen. 2 , 17. q vvherein do these two covenants differ ? a. the covenant of works being made with man in innocency may be called a covenant of amity or friendship between god and man being friends ; but the other is a covenant of gracious reconciliation , when sinne had brought in enmity betwixt them , 2 cor. 5. 19 , 20. q. vvhat is another difference ? a. the one belongs to adam , and all his posterity ; the other belongs onely to the elect , or at the most onely to such as have the gospel preached to them , eph. 2. 12. q is there not some difference in regard of the blessings promised to either of them ? a. yes for the one promiseth life upon condition of perfect obedience ; but if sinne be once committed , it knows of no forgivenesse , nor recovery e but the other promiseth forgivenesse of sinnes f and renovation of our natures g and to write the law in our hearts h . q how do they differ in regard of the conditions of them ? a. the one promiseth nothing but upon condition of fulfilling the law in our own persons i , which to man since the fall is utterly impossible k ; but the covenant of grace promiseth life upon condition of believing in another , the lord jesus christ l q. vvhat are the effects of either of these covenants ? a. the one now works nothing but the discovery of sinne m , and bondage n , and wrath o , requiring many things , but not giving any power to perform p , but the other worketh in us what it requireth of us , being the ministration of the spirit , and righteousnesse and life q ; and the power of god to salvation r q. vvhat is the continuance of either of them ? a. the one is broken by the sinne of man s , and abrogated to them that are in christ t but the other shall never be removed nor disanulled to them that have once truly believed in him u q. vvas the covenant of grace revealed and dispensed in the times afore christs incarnation , or only since his comming in the flesh ? a. there hath been the same covenant of grace for substance , in all times and ages of the church , since the fall of man till this day , gen. 3. 15. & 15. 5 , 6. iohn 8. 56. acts 15 , 11. heb. 13. 8. q. but hath there not been some difference between the administration of the covenant of grace in former times , and in these daies . a. yes , there hath been difference in regard of the manner of administration , and therefore it is that they are called two covenants , or testaments , the old and the new w when for substance it is but the same . q. vvherein stands that different manner of administration ? a. then it was more burden some in regard of the multitude of ceremonies and sacrifices , now it is more easie ; then it was more darke , in regard of types and shadows , now apparent and cleer . q. vvhat may be the further difference ? a. now there is more power and efficacy of the spirit , and the graces of it , in the hearts of gods people genreally , then was then : and whereas then it was only to be one people , now it is to all nations . chap. 16. how christ is the prophet , priest , and king unto his people , and in particular of his propheticall office . q. you have shewed that the office of christ in generall is to be a mediator , to reconcile god and man together by meanes of the new covenant , or covenant of grace ; tell me now what are the speciall parts of his mediatorship ? a. he is a prophet , a priest , and king . q. how may it be proved that christ hath this threefold office of prophet , priest , and king ? a. first , by the condition of his people , lying under a threefold misery of ignorance , estrangement from god , and inability to recover themselves , and return unto god again , q. how doth this prove it . a. the first of these miseries is holpen by christs propheticall office , the second by his priestly , and the third by his kingly . q. how else may this threefold office of christs be proved ? a. by the order and manner of bestowing salvation upon his people , which must first be revealed and made known , then purchased and procured , and lastly effectually applied . q. and how doth this prove it ? a. the first of these is done by christs propheticall office , the second by his priestly , and the third by his kingly . q. vvhat may be a further proofe of this three fold office of christ ? a. the practice of christ , who first lived as a prophet teaching the will of god secondly as a priest he offered himselfe on the crosse ; and then as a king he applies unto his people all the benefits of his passion . q. come we now to the particulars , and tell me how it may be proved that christ is a prophet to his people ? a. because he is expresly so called a , as also by other titles importing the same thing ; q. vvhat are those other titles ? a. he is called counsellor b , messenger c , doctor or master d , apostle e , speaker f , the shepheard and bishop of our soules g , the faithfull and true witnesse h q vvhat is the work of christ as a prophet ? a. to reveale and make known to his people the counsell and will of god , deut. 18. 18. iohn 1. 18. & 4. 25. & 15 15. matth. 11. 27. q how doth he this ? a. outwardly by such means as he hath appointed , and inwardly by the teaching and illumination of his holy spirit . q. vvhat are the outward meanes ? a. they are divers and sundry , according as it pleased him i ; but chiefly they are the holy scriptures k , and the ministery of men appointed to speak in his name l q. what is the teaching of the holy spirit ? a. it is that inward work of the holy ghost upon the soule , whereby the outward teaching is made efficacious and powerfull for opening the understanding and humbling the heart to embrace the truth and will of god , iohn 16. 13. & 14. 26. 1 iohn 2. 27 q. when hath christ performed his office and function of a prophet unto his people ? a. both when he was upon earth in his own person m , and also in all times and ages of the church , both afore his incarnation n , and since his assention into heaven o q. how much of the will of god doth this prophet make known unto his people ? a. all that is requisite for our salvation ; iohn 15 15. & 4. 25. & 16. 13. & deut. 18. 18. q. what then is to be thought of all doctrines , traditions , revelations and ordinances which he hath not appointed ? a. they are all to be rejected and accursed p , as being injurious to the perfection and fulnesse of the propheticall office of christ : chap. 17. of the priesthood of christ . q. is christ also a priest ? a. yes , and is frequently so called , psal. 110. 4. heb. 2. 17. & 3. 1. & 4. 14 , 15. & 5. 5 , 6 , 10. & 8. 1. & 9. 11. q was he a priest after the order of aaron ? a. no , but after the order of melchizedek , psa. 110. 4 heb. 7. 11 , 21. q. how may that appeare ? a. aaron was of the tribe of levi , but christ was of the tribe of iudah a ; and whereas aaron had father and mother , christ as he was man was without a father , and as god without mother b q. how else ? a. aaron and his successors being sinners , had need to offer sacrifice first for their owne sinnes , and then for the peoples : but christ being altogether without sinne , did offer sacrifice onely for the people . heb. 5. 3. & 9. 7. & 7. 26 , 27. q. is there not some difference between the priesthood of aaron and christs priesthood , in respect of the manner of entrance in the same and continuance therein ? a. yes , for aaron and his successors were ordained without an oath ; but christ with an oath c . and whereas the priests of the law died and had successors , christ hath an unchangeable priesthood , continuing priest for ever d q. how doe these priesthoods differ in respect of the sacrifices offered thereby ? a. the one offered the bodyes and blood of beasts ; but christ offered up himselfe , and so was both priest and sacrifice , heb. 9. 12 , 14 , 26. q. is there not some difference in regard of the number of their sacrifices ? a. the sacrifices of the law were many , because of their imperfections , but christ hath offered up himselfe once for all , heb. 7. 27. & 9. 25 , 26. & 10. 12 , 14. q. what are the workes performed by him as a priest ? a. oblation or offering a sacrifice e , and making request or intercession for his people f q. what was the sacrifice which he offered ? a. himself as he is man g , his humane soule h , and body i q. vvhat kind of sacrifice was this ? a. it was bloody , or by blood k , it was spotlesse l , and perfect m , and most pleasing unto god n q. vvhat altar did he offer this sacrifice upon ? a. the altar must need be heavenly , as the priest and sacrifice were ; and the use of an altar being to sanctifie the gift , and therefore greater then it w ; and therefore it was not the crosse of wood , but the godhead of christ , which was the altar on which he sacrificed himselfe x q. whether is christ the only priest unto god in these daies , or are there not others who are priests also ? a. all christians are called priests to offer up unto god the spirituall sacrifice of prayer and thanksgiving , and the like y ; but to be a priest to offer up a sacrifice propitiatory is proper and peculiar unto christ onely z q. what acts doth christ perform in making intercession for his people ? a. he appeares in the presence of god for them a , presenting before god the vertue and value of his death and bloodshedding b , with some expression of his will before god for their good c q. in what manner doth he make this intercession ? a. not with teares and words , and prostrating of his body , as he did on earth , but in such a manner as is suitable to his state of glory . q. what are the benefits of this intercession of christ ? a. forgivenesse of sinnes daily continued and applied d , with continuance in gods favour e , and acceptance of our imperfect services f . q. what are the benefits of this intercession ? a. hereby believers are defended and secured against the accusations of all their enemies g , with certainty of salvation in heaven h . chap. 18. of the kingly office of christ . q. hath christ also the office of a king ? a. yes , for he is often expresly so called a , and hath the ornaments of a king ; q. what are those ornaments ? a. to sit upon a throne b , to weare a crown upon his head c , and to have a scepter in his hand d q. how is he king of his people ? as god onely , or as man also ? a. not as god onely , but as mediator , god and man in one person . q. how is that proved ? a. because he that was born and given to us hath the government upon his shoulders e , and he that was crucisied is made lord and christ f ; now to be born , and given , and crucified , cannot be said of god onely , q. how else may it appeare that christ is king not as god onely , but as man also ? a. because the time will come when he shall deliver up the kingdome to the father g but as god he shall reign with the father unto all eternity . q. is any work of christ as king anywhere expresly ascribed unto him as man ? a. yea , authority to execute judgement as a kingly work ; and this belongeth unto christ as man , iohn 5. 27. q. over whom is christ a king ? a. over all creatures in generall h , over the visible church in speciall i , and over the elect in a most speciall manner above all other k q how is he king over all creatures ? a. in sustaining and disposing of them all by his providence , as may be for his glory , and the good of the elect , heb. 1. 3. col. 1. 16. pro. 8. 15 , 16. isa. 43. 14 , 15. q. and how is he king of the visible church ? a. in that he gathereth men into it l , appoints ordinances and officers unto it m , and prescribeth laws n for the manner of carrying on all things therein ; q how doth christ all these things in the church ? a. he doth them all by his word , which is therefore called the word of the kingdome , mat. 13. 19. q. and how is christ king of the elect ? a. not onely by his providence , as over all creatures : nor only by his word and ordinances , as to the visible church , but also by the speciall working of the grace of his holy spirit in their hearts , ezek. 36 26. eph. 1 22. col. 1 18. q. hath not the kingly office of christ some that are enemies unto it ? a. yes , sin and the world , the divel and death . q. vvhat are the acts of christs kingly office in respect of those his enemies , and the enemies of his church and elect people ? a. to bridle o and subdue p them all . q. vvhat are the properties of christs kingdom ? a. it is lawfull q , spirituall r , powerfull s , righteous t , large u , and everlasting w chap. 19. of christ his humiliation . q. having spoken of the person & offices of christ , how are we in the next place to consider of his actions ? a. in a twofold estate : his state of humiliation , and his state of exaltation . q vvhat are the generall acts of his humiliation ? a. laying aside the full manifestation of his divine majesty for a time a , and assuming unto him the nature of man b q. vvhat else ? a. it was a great act of his humiliation , that he became subject to the law c , and not onely a man , but in the meanest condition of men d . q. vvhat may be evidences that he was a man of a very mean condition and state ? a. his poore birth , his afflicted and poore life , his shamefull and accursed death , with the things that follow afterward , do evidently shew the same . q. what was his poor birth ? a. he was born of a poor virgin for his mother who was espoused to a carpenter for her husband ; and when he was born was wrapped in swadling clothes and layd in a manger , because there was no room for his poor mother in the inne , luke 2. 7. q. what else was the testimony of his poore birth ? a. when he was presented to the lord in the temple with an offering , the offering was but a paire of turtle doves or two yong pigeons , which was an offering appointed at the birth of children of the poorest sort of people . luk. 2. 24. levit. 12. 8. q. what was his poore and afflicted life ? a. his fleeing into aegypt from the rage of herod e , his poverty in outward estate f , and his subjection to his parents g as any other child . q. vvhat else were testimonies of his afflicted life ? a. his temptations from the divell h , his wearysome journeys from place to place i , and his manifold persecutions from the hands and tongues k of wicked men , q. what was his shamefull , painefull and accursed death ? a. it was his crucifying or death upon the crosse l , which was a death accursed by the law m q. wherein was the shame of that death ? a. it was shamefull in that he was crucified in the midst betwixt two theeves n , and barabbas a murtherer counted more worthy then he o q. what else was the shame and paine of that death ? a. he was crowned with thornes , and otherwayes derided by the people and priests , his hands and feete were nailed to the crosse , and his side was pierced with a speare to the effusion of water and blood , math. 27. 29. 30. 31. iohn 19. 34. q. what else was there in his death ? a : that which was the greatest of all was , that he endured a grievous agony with his fathers wrath , mat. 26 , 37. 38. and 27. 46. q what followed after his death ? a. he was buried in the grave p , and continued under the power and dominion of death for a time q , q. what was the end of all this humilation of christ ? q. that he might make satisfaction to the justice and honour of god , which had been wronged by our sinnes r , and to procure for us reconciliation with god and eternall life s , q. how came christ to be liable to make satisfaction for our sinnes ? a. because he voluntarily became our surety , and so was to pay the debt that we were in unto god , heb. 7. 22. psal , 40. 7. chap. 20. of the exaltation of christ , and his resurrection from the dead . q. having considered of christs humiliation , how are wee in the next place to consider of his exaltation ? a. the exaltation of christ is to be considered both in respect of his godhead and his manhood , and in the severall degrees thereof . q. what is his exaltation in respect of his godhead ? a. it is nothing else but the manifestation of that divine power and glory of his , which had beene so much concealed in all the time of his humiliation , iohn 175. rom. 1. 4 : q and what is his exaltation in respect of his manhood ? a. it consists partly in laying aside all those infirmities which it had beene subject unto in the time of humiliation by hunger , thirst , wearinesse and the like , which are all of them removed and done away , 1 cor. 15. 43. q. wherein else doth this exaltation consist ? a. in that the humane nature of christ was filled with all the glorious excellencies that a creature is capable of , and this both in respect of his soule a , and in respect of his body b , q. doth the bodie of christ by meanes of his exultation or glorification become infinite , or omnipresent or in many places at once ? a. as the soule of christ being glorified doth still retaine the nature of a soule : so his bodie doth still retaine the essentiall properties of a bodie c , and therefore is not infinite nor omnipresent , for that were to destroy its essentiall properties , q. vvhat are the degrees of christs exaltation ? a. his resurrection from the dead , his ascention into heaven , and his sitting at the right hand of god . q. vvhat meane you by his resurrection from the dead ? a. i meane that his body which was dead was quickned againe d , by the uniting together of his soule and body againe , which in death had been separated : and also that being quickned he came forth again out of the grave e . q. vvhat certainty is there of this resurrection of christ ? a. the scripture saith that christ is risen indeed f , and his resurrection hath beene witnessed by many cleare and pregnant testimonies , q. vvhat are those testimonies ? a. the blessed angels did witnesse that christ was risen from the dead g ; so also did the watchmen which were set to have kept him from rising h , and likewise certaine godly women i , to whom he shewed himselfe alive after his resurrection . q. what further testmonies was there of christs resurrection ? a. the apostles who were witnesses appoined of god for this end k , doe frequently testifie the same l . q. did not christ also declare his owne resurrection by shewing himselfe upon earth after he was risen from the dead , afore he ascended into heaven ? a. he shewed himselfe alive by appearing to many within the space of those forty dayes betweene his resurrection and ascention acts 1. 3. q. what are some of those apparitions of christ in those dayes ? a. he appeared to mary magdalen m : and to other godly women n , to two disciples as they were going to emmaus o , and to all the disciples together except thomas p . q. to whom else ? a. to the disciples at another time and to thomas being with them q , to seven of them at the sea of tiberias r , to the eleven a in mountain of galilee s , and upon the mount of olives t , and to above five hundred brethren at once u . q. you have sufficiently shewed the certainty of christs resurrection ; tell likewise the time of it , when it was that he arose . a. hee rose againe the third day after he was put to death , 1 cor 15. 4. q. by what power did he rise againe ? a. by the power of the father w , and his owne almighty power x . q. what were the ends of his resurrection ? a. he rose againe to shew the dignity of his person y , to fulfill the scriptures z , and to shew that there was sufficiencie of merit and satisfaction in his death a . q. open this last a little more plainely . a. when a suretie apprehended and laid in prison hath fully discharged the debt , it is meete that then he should be released , and when he is released , it appeareth thereby that the debt is fully paid : so when christ had fully satisfied for our sinnes , it was meete he should be released from death , and being so released it appeareth thereby that satisfaction for our sinnes was fully made . q. what other ends were there of the resurrection of christ ? a. he rose that he might have lordship and dominion over quicke and dead b , which he had duely purchased by his suffering . q. could christ have performed the office whereto he was appointed , if he had not risen from the dead ? a. that may be another end of his resurrection , namely that he might performe the office of an eternall priest , and prophet and king unto his people , which he could not have done if he had still remained under the power and dominion of death . q. what are the benefits of christs resurrection ? hereby believers may be assured of their iustification from all their sinnes c , of their spirituall rising to newnesse of life d , and of their resurrection to glorie at their last day e . chap. 21. of christs ascention into heaven . q when christ was risen from the dead , did he still continue upon earth ? a. no , but after a time he left this world , and ascended into heaven iohn 16 28. q what was the place from whence he did ascend ? a. in generall from this world , and in speciall from the mount of olives neere unto ierusalem acts 1. 12. q what was the place to which he did ascend ? a. the third heaven , farre above this earth , and all these inferior and visible heavens . mark 16. 19. luk. 24. 51. act. 1. 11. ioh. 14. 1. 2. eph. 4. 10. q. was this ascention of christ a true and reall mutation and change of place , or onely a change of his estate ? a. though christ in respect of his godhead be everywhere present a , and in respect of the power and comfort of his spirit be present with all his saints upon earth b ; yet his ascention into heaven was such a true and reall change of place , that in respect of his bodily presence he is now no more upon earth , but in heaven c , q. what was the efficient cause of christ ascention ? a. the power of the father , in respect whereof he is said to be received or taken up d ; and his owne almighty power , in respect of which he is said to ascend , or goe up e . q. when was the time of this ascention ? a. forty dayes after his resurrection from the dead act. 1. 3. q. why did he ascend no sooner ? a. because he would first sufficiently confirme the faith of the disciples concerning his resurrection , and fully instruct them in the things pertayning to the kingdom of god . acts 1. 3. q. why did he stay upon earth no longer ? a. to shew that it was not an earthly life , which he now affected or minded . q. who were witnesses of his ascention ? a. the disciples who were with him at that time upon the mount of olives , and certaine angel which then appeared . acts 1. 9. 10. 11. q. for what end did christ ascend into heaven ? a. that he might fulfill the scripture f , and fully performe his office g , and take possession of the glory that was due unto him h . q. what else were the ends and fruits of his ascention ? a. the leading of captivity captive i , the giving of gifts unto men k , the pouring out of his spirit upon his people l , and preparing a place for them m . chap. 22. of christs sitting at the right hand of god , and his returne to the last judgement . q : besides the resurrection and ascention of christ , what further degree is there of his exaltation ? a. his sitting at the right hand of god psal. 110. 1. mark . 16. 19. eph. 1. 20. col. 3. 1. heb. 1. 3 , 13. and 8 , 1. and 10. 12 , 13. q. vvhat are we to understand by christs sitting at the right hand of god ? a. that fulnesse of excellent majestie and glorious dominion whereto he is now advanced , farre above the most glorious angels and every other creature , eph : 1. 20 , 21 , 22. heb. 1. 13. q. but divine dominion and soveraignty over all creatures belonging to the father and to the holy ghost , why is this peculiarly ascribed unto christ ? a. not in respect of right but the actuall and immediate exercise thereof ; for the former belonging to all the divine persons , this latter is now peculiarly committed unto christ : ioh. 5. 22. 27. act 10. 42. and 17. 31. q. vvho gave christ this great authority thus to sit at the right hand of god ? a. he did not come unto it by any unjust usurpation , but it was given unto him by god . eph. 1. 20. phil. 2. 10. iohn 5. 22. 27. and 17. 2. q. and why did god give this great advancement unto christ ? a. because the sonne did voluntarily humble himselfe to the greatest degree of obedience and humiliation ; therefore the father gave unto him this exaltation and advancement , as a reward and recompence of that his humiliation , phil. 2. 10. 11. isa. 5. 3. 12. q. doth christ sit at the right hand of god in respect of his divine nature onely or in regard of his manhood also ? a. this dignity belongs to christ as god and man in one person , and not in respect of one of his natures alone . q. how may that appeare ? a. because it is given to him immediately upon his ascention into heaven a , and is to be exercised by him both as davids lord b , and also as he is the sonne of man c . q. how long shall this sitting of christ at gods right hand continue ? a. vntill all his enemies be made his footstoole psa. 110. 1. 1. cor. 15. 25 ? q. shall it never cease and have an end ? a. if we speake of his reigning and ruling in a way and manner peculiar and appropriate to his person , so we may safely say that when all his enemies are put under his feet , then shal be the end , when he shall deliver up the kingdome to the father , and himselfe be subject to him , 1 cor. 15. 24 , 25 , 28. q. what shall be the last act of this glorious power and authority of christ , and so the last degree of his exaltation ? a. his returne to iudgement at the last day , when he shall come a second time into this world with unspeakable majestie and glory , to judge the quick and dead 2 tim: 4. 1. act. 10. 42. and 17 , 31. and mat. 25. 31. and 26. 64. & 2 thes. 1. 7 , 8 , 9. chap. 23. of faith and union with christ . q. you have spoken of the person , offices and actions of christ ; you are now to shew the benefits that come by christ , and how we are made partakers of christ and of his benefits ? a. we are made partakers of christ and all his benefits by faith alone , iohn 1. 12. and 3. 16 , 18 , 36. and 20. 31. eph. 3. 17. and act. 16. 31. q. what meane you by faith ? a. that grace of the spirit whereby we receive christ , which is wrought in our hearts in our effectuall calling ? q how is faith wrought in effectuall callings ? a. effectuall calling consists of two parts , the offer of christ to the soule , and the soule excepting of that offer or the call of god when he calls the soule to come to christ , and the answere of the soule unto that call a : now this latter is nothing else but faith : q. how is faith wrought in us ? a. not by any power of our owne freewill b , or meerely by morall perswasion c ; for we are dead in sinnes and treepasses d . q. how then is it wrought ? a. by the almighty power of the spirit of god as the author of it e ; and by the word as the instrument thereof f , q. how doth the word worke faith ? a. the law prepareth for it g , by convincing the soule of sinne h , and terrifying for the same i , through the worke of the spirit of bondage k : q. and what doth the gospel ? a. it presents the excellency and worth of christ as an onely and alsufficient saviour l ; but withall convincing the soule of its great sinne in not beleeving in christ m , of its utter insufficiency to come to him n , and its great unworthynesse o to have any part or portion in him . q. what followeth hereupon ? a. hereby the soule feeling it selfe to be utterly lost is further and more kindely broken and humbled , luke 19. 10. isa. 61 , 1 , 2 , 3. math. 11. 20. zac : 12. 10. q what else is done by the gospell in the working of faith ? a. it sweetly encourageth poore lost soules to come to jesus christ p , and enableth them so to doe , rowling and resting themselves upon him q , by the helpe of the spirit of grace r , which is ministred thereby s , q it seemes then you make christ the object of faith ? a. yea ; not onely the whole truth of god t , but specially christ jesus as he is set forth in the promises of the gospel , is the obiect of saving faith u , q. wherein doth the nature of this faith consist ? a. not onely in knowledge of the revealed will of god w ; and in assent to the truth thereof x ; for so much may be found in devils y . q. what is there more then this in saving faith ? a. there is also a comming unto iesus christ z , with affiance a , and reliance upon him b , q. what is the subject in whom this faith is wrought ? a. this faith is not wrought in any reprobate but only in the elect c ; and not onely in the understanding , or only in the will but in the whole heart d . q. and what an heart is it in whom this faith is wrought ? a. onely the heart of such an one as is now a poore , lost and broken-hearted sinner : math. 9. 12 , and 11 , 28. luke 19. 10. and 3. 4 , 5 , 6. q. vvhy say you so ? a. because till the heart be thus prepared , men will never come to christ e , nor can they truly beleeve on him f , q. vvhat thinke you then of those who professe themselves to be true beleevers , and yet were never in any measure thus prepared and humbled ? a. the case of such professors is very dangerous . q. why say you so ? a. because the fallow ground of their hearts being never broken up , they doe but sow among thornes g , & so the stoninesse of their hearts not being removed by any sound & thorough worke of contrition and humiliation , therfore though they may for a time receive the word with joy , and beleeve for a season , yet they are like to be but temporary beleevers , and in time of temptation fall away h , q. you have shewed the cause , and the object , the nature and subject of faith ; tell me now what are the principall effects of faith ? a. hereby we have union with christ himselfe i , and so communion with him in all the benefits which he hath purchased for the elect k . q. what understand you by union with christ ? a. that spirituall conjunction l betweene christ and the beleever whereby the beleever hath possesion of christ as his owne m , dwelling in christ n , and christ in him o , and is made one spirit with him p . q. by what comparisons or similitudes is this union expressed in scripture ? a. it is expressed by that union that is between the husband and wife q , the vine and the branches r , and the head and the members s . q. what benefit comes to beleevers by meanes of this their union with christ ? a. being one with christ , therefore christ will be sure to take all their injuries and afflictions as if they were his owne t , will free them from condemnation u , and afford unto them communion with him in all his benefits w , q. what are those benefits of christ wherein beleevers have communion with him by vertue of this their union ? a. some of the principal are justification x , adoption y , and sanctification z , besides which if god give us christ , he will with him freely give us all things also a . chap. 24. of justification & of adoption . q let us come to the first of these benefits which is our justification ; and first tell me what is the meaning of the word to justifie ? a. it doth not signifie to make an unjust man just by changing his qualities ; for then it were all one with sanctification from which it is distinct 1 cor 6. 1. 1. q. what then doth it signifie ? a. to iustifie is frequently opposed to condenme a , and therefore it doth properly signifie to acquit from blame and punishment q. what is the cause of our justification . a. the impulsive cause that moveth god to justifie a sinner is nothing else but his free grace : rom. 3 24. tit 3. 7. q. vvhat is that for which god doth justifie ? a. god doth not justifie us without righteousnesse ; for then how should god be just b ? but he justifieth us by and for a righteousnesse which is most exact and perfect . q. what is that perfect righteousnesse ? a. not our own righteousnesse in obedience to the law c , for that is most imperfect d q. what righteousnesse is it then ? a. that perfect righteousnesse whereby we are justified is that righteousnesse which was wrought by christ , and inherent in his person , isai 45. 24 , 25. ier. 23. 6. 1 cor. 1. 30. 2 cor. 5. 21. rom. 5. 18 , 19. q. how comes the righteousnesse of christ to be ours , that we may be justified thereby ? a. god doth graciously impute it to us e , and faith is the instrument for the receiving of it f , that so by it we may be justified ; q. open this a little further , how faith is considered when we are said to be justified by faith ? a. faith is not considered in justification properly , as if the very act of believing were the matter of our righteousnesse ; neither doth it iustifie as a work or vertue in us by any merit of it selfe . q. why may not faith be considered in our justification as a work or vertue in us ? a. because all workes of ours are excluded from being any cause or matter of our justification g ; and therefore if faith were so considered , it must then be excluded also ; q. how then is faith considered when we are said to be justified by faith ? a. onely relatively in respect of the object of it , which is jesus christ and his righteousnesse . q. faith being not considered in our justification properly as a worke or vertue in us , it must needs then be considered relatively in respect of christ the object of it ; but how may the truth of this yet further appeare ? a. as the scripture saith we are justified by faith , so it also saith christ is our righteousnesse h , and that we are justified by christ i . q. vvhat else may be said for the further clearing of this truth ? a. sometimes this phrase , to be justified by faith , is expounded in the words immediately following , to be nothing else but to be justified by christ , gal. 2. 16. 17. q. vvhat are the parts of justification ? a. justification is onely one benefit of god vouchsafed to believers ; but there are two parts thereof inseparably conjoyned , namely , forgivenesse of sinnes through the sufferings of christ , and accounting a man just and righteous through the righteousnesse of christ imputed to him . q. vvhat is the object of justification , the persons whom god doth justifie ? a. onely the elect k , being by nature and in themselves sinners and ungodly l , but called by grace to be true believers in christ m . q. what is adoption ? a. an act of gods free grace n , whereby the elect o being in themselves aliens & strangers p from god , are upon their believing in christ q admitted for christs sake r , on whom they doe believe , into the houshold of god , and to the dignity and priviledge of his children s . q what are the benefits of this adoption ? a. by means hereof believers are brethren to christ jesus t , have title to the heavenly inheritance u and have liberty and boldnesse to make their requests to god w , as to a most gracious and loving father , with great assurance to be heard x . chap. 25. of sanctification , and the difference between it and justification ; and of foure other benefits of christ to believers . q. sanctification being another of those benefits that come by christ , and our union with christ , tell me first of all what sanctification is ? a. it is a true and reall change a , wrought by the spirit of god b , in the elect c , now believing on christ d : whereby the whole man e is changed and altered from the turpitude and filthinesse of sinne f , to the purity of the image of god . q. vvhat difference is there between the former benefit ▪ to wit iustification , and this of sanctification ? a. the materiall cause of the one is the righteousnesse of christ without us , imputed to us g : but the materiall cause of the other is a body of divine graces and qualities infused into the soule , created in us h . q. how doe they differ in respect of their formall causes ? a. the formall cause of justification is the pronouncing of the sentence of absolution , and accepting a mans person for righteous : the formall cause of sanctification is the restoring o gods image into the soule , by putting off the old man , and putting on the new , ephes. 4. 22 , 23 , 24 q. how else doe they differ ? a. justification makes no reall change in the soule , as when the judge acquits a man , but makes him never a whit the more honest then before ; but sanctification makes a great change in the soule from sinne and corruption unto purity and holinesse , rom. 6. 17. 1 tim. 1. 13. 1 cor. 6. 11. q. what may be a fourth difference ? a. justification is perfect at the first , as one individuall act ; but sanctification is a graduall work , imperfect at the first , and growing by degrees . q. why doe you say that iustification is perfect at the first ? a. not in respect of the sense and feeling , and assurance of it , for these may increase and grow daily , and are therefore daily to be prayed for , mat. 6. 12. luke 17. 5. q. how then is justification perfect at the first ? a. in respect of the matter whereby we are justified , which is the imputed righteousnesse of christ , which is so perfect that a man can never have more all the daies of his life , though he should live as long as ever any did . q. is not sanctification also perfect at the first ? a. farre from it ; for the honest men upon earth have been sensible of such imperfection i in their sanctification , that they durst not stand to be justified before god thereby k . q. vvhat proceeds from this imperfection of sanctification ? a. a continuall combat between corruption and grace in the sanctified soule , gal. 5. 17. rom. 7. q. and what else ? a. a continuall exercise of repentance , and of fleeing to the grace of god in christ jesus , rom. 7. 24 , 25. q. iustification , adoption , and sanctification are excellent benefits that come to believers through christ ; tell me what other benefits do accompany or flow from these ? a. in this life there doth accompany or flow from them assurance of gods love , lively hope , and expectation of glory , peace of conscience , and joy in the holy ghost , rom. 5. 1 , 2 , 5. & 14. 17. tit. 2. 13. q. if these things be vouchsafed to believers in this life , what shall they have in the life to come ? a. unspeakable glory and happinesse in the immediate fruition of communion with god and christ unto all eternity , col. 3. 4. 1 iohn 3. 2. heb. 12. 23. 1 cor. 15. 28. q but may not a true believer lose his faith , and so lose all these benefits that come by faith in this life , and fall short of eternall glory in the life to come ? a. if he should finally lose his faith , it would be so indeed ; but god that of his grace hath wrought this faith in him , will preserve and perfect the same untill the day of christ , phil. 1. 6. 1 cor. 1. 8. q. doe you mean then that a true believer can never totally nor finally fall away , but shall persevere in grace unto the end ? a. yea , i mean so indeed ; this perseverance of believers in the state of grace being plainly and plenteously taught in the holy scriptures , 1 pet. 1. 5. luke 22. 31 , 32. iohn 17. 20 , 21. & 10. 28. mat. 16. 18. ier. 3● . 40. chap. 26. of the necessity of faith , its imperfection at the first , and the means whereby it may be increased : of hearing the word , and of baptisme and the lords supper . q. you have shewed many excellent benefits that come by faith ; but whether is faith of such necessity that these things cannot be without it ? a. such is the necessity of this grace of faith , that in respect of the usuall way of gods dispensation , there is no hope nor possibility that a man should escape wrath or attaine happinesse in this or in another world without faith , iohn 3. 18 36. mark 16. 16. heb. 11. 6. q. faith then is very profitable and necessary ; but whether is it perfect at the first , or groweth by degrees ? a. the best faith is imperfect in this life a , and is usually little at the first b , increasing and growing by degrees unto more perfection c . q. vvhat are the ordinary and usuall means for increasing of faith ? a. hearing the word d , communion of saints e , receiving of sacraments f , prayer g , reading h , meditation i and conference . q. when must we heare the word ? a. the usuall and ordinary time is on the lords day k , and other times also l are not to be neglected , when god gives such opportunity . q vvhat rules must be observed before we come to heare the word that we may get profit thereby ? a. we must lay aside our sinnes m , seriously consider the weightinesse of the work we goe about n , resolve to obey whatsoever shall be shewed to be the will of god o , and pray to him that he would teach us to profit p . q. vvhat rules must be observed in hearing ? a. reverent attention q , with spirituall affections r , giving credit to the truth s , and applying the word unto our selves t . q vvhat must we observe after we haue heard ? a. we must meditate of the same afterward u , confer of it with others w , pray to god for a blessing x , and set upon the practice of what is required y . q. vvhat is the generall nature of sacraments ? a. they are divine instructions annexed to the word , for the teaching of spirituall things , gen. 17. exod. 12. mat. 26. q. who is the author of sacraments ? a. onely god z , who is the author of those spirituall blessings and duties that are taught thereby . q vvhat are the parts of a sacrament ? a. two : an outward and visible signe , and an inward and spirituall blessing , which is the thing signified . q. who are to receive the sacraments ? a. the faithfull members of some visible church , and their seed , gen. 17. 10 , 11. acts 2. 39. q. vvhat is the proper effect and use of a sacrament ? a. to be a signe and seale of the covenant between god and his people , and of those spirituall blessings which are promised therein , gen. 17. 10 , 11. rom. 4. 11. exod. 12. mat. 26. q. how many sacraments are there ? a. in the new testament onely two : baptisme and the lords supper , mat. 28. 19. & 26. 26 , &c. q. vvhat is the outward signe or part in baptisme ? a. water a , and washing therewith b , in the name of the father , sonne , and holy ghost c . q. what is the thing signified ? a. union with christ d , and forgivenesse of sinnes e , with sanctification in the mortifying of corruption , and quickning the soule to newnesse ▪ of life f . q. who ought to be baptized ? a. men of yeeres when once they are converted to the faith , and joyned to the churchg g ; and such infants whose parents , both or one of them are to be converted and joyned h . q. who is the author of the lords supper ? a. the lord jesus in the same night in which he was betrayed when he was about to lay down his life , which was the greatest act of love that ever was , 1 cor. 11. 23 , 24. q. vvhat is the outward signe in the lords supper ? a. bread and wine with the actions pertaining to them , which are breaking and pouring out , giving and receiving , eating and drinking , mat. 26. 26. 1 cor. 11. 24 , 25 , &c. q vvhat is the spirituall blessing , or thing signified ? a. the generall sum thereof is christ himselfe , and our communion with him , and withall the benefits of his passion , mat. 26. 26 , &c. 1 cor. 10 16. q. what are the things signified more particularly ? a. the passion of christ , and his sacrifice upon the crosse , consisting in the crucifying of his body , and shedding of his blood , 1 cor. 11. 26. q. what else ? a. the action of god the father giving k christ for and to the elect , with the action of christ giving himselfe l to death , and likewise giving himselfe to the soules of the faithfull . q. what is the third thing signified in the lords supper ? a. the act of faith , receiving christ and feeding on him spiritually m , so as to grow unto more communion with his n body and blood , and spirituall strength of grace thereby q. who ought to receive the lords supper ? a. such members of the church as are endewed with knowledge o spirituall affections p , faith q repentance r , love s , and thankfulnesse t . chap. 27. of prayer , and some other means of increasing faith . q. what is the generall nature of prayer ? a. not onely a wish or desire after this , or that ; for a man may have so much and never pray , iam. 4. 2. q. vvhat is it then ? a. prayer is an opening of the desire of the heart before god a , whether it be by ffighes and groanes b , or by words c , and other means d . q to whom must we pray ? a. to him that knoweth the heart e , and is almighty , and so able to help f , to him that is to be worshipped g , and believed in h , which is none but god . q. whether must we pray to god directly and immediately , or through a mediator ? a. onely through the mediation of jesus christ , iohn 146. & 16. 23. 1 tim. 2. 5. heb. 7. 25. q. what are the parts of prayer ? a. petition and thanksgiving , phil. 4. 6. 1 thess. 5. 17 , 11. q. what is petition ? a. a prayer wherein we aske the preventing or removing of things hurtfull , and the bestowing of things needfull , mat 7. 7 , 8 , 9 , 10. q what is thanksgiving ? a. a prayer wherein we desire that honour and glory may be given to god for what we have received i , or do believe we shall receive hereafter k . q. whether is not confession of our sinnes and miseries , and vows and promises unto god , parts of prayer ? a. they may be called adjuncts of prayer , because they are to be expressed or understood in every prayer . q. how may that appeare ? a. by this , because to come to god for mercy without an acknowledgement of our unworthinesse and misery , and to desire him to perform what he requires of us , is little better then a mocking of god . q. are there any for whom we must not pray ? a. yes ; we must not pray for the dead , because we cannot do it of faith , as having neither precept nor example , nor any good warrant for it in the world , rom. 14. 23. q. vvhy else may we not pray for the dead ? a. because such prayers cannot availe at all , but are altogether vain , 1 pet. 3. 19. heb. 9. 27. q. for whom else must we not pray ? a. we must not pray for the salvation of all men living universally , for that is contrary to the revealed will of god l ; nor for any in particular that have sinned the sinne against the holy ghost m . q. for whom then must we pray ? a. for all other sorts of men now living n , both our selves and others o , whether they be friends or enemies p , and for some that shall live hereafter q . q. is there any rule of direction according to which we ought to frame our prayers ? a. yes , the whole will of god revealed for this purpose in the word r , and that pattern of prayer given by christ unto his disciples s . q. seeing god knoweth all our wants afore we pray , and hath determined with himselfe what he will doe for us , wherefore then should we pray ? a. not to inform him , as if he were ignorant of our estates , for he understandeth our thoughts afarre off t nor to change his minde , for his purpose is unchangeable u . q. why then ? a. we are therefore to pray , because god hath appointed prayer to be the way and means w whereby he will accomplish that which he hath purposed to doe for us . q. how must we pray that we may be accepted ? a. the persons praying must be righteous x humble y and upright z and the matter of prayer must be something lawfull and promised a . q. and what must be the manner of praying , and the end aymed at therein ? a. the manner must be in sense and feeling of our wants b ; with faith c , fervency d , and perseverance e ; and the end must not be that we may consume it upon our lusts , but for the glory of god f . q. what other means are there for the increasing of faith ? a. diligent reading of the holy scriptures g , and serious meditation therein h , with frequent and holy conference with others i chap. 28. of the church catholike or mysticall , and the difference between it and particular instituted churches . q. who is the subject of redemption , or of all that deliverance obtained by christ ? a. not the blessed angels , because having never fallen they needed no redeemer , nor all the race of mankind , for christ would not pray for the world , iohn 17. 9. q. who then were redeemed by christ ? a. he gave himselfe for none others but only for his church , eph. 5. 25. acts 20. 28. iohn 10. 15. & 11. 52. q. what is meant by the church in the holy scriptures ? a. it is usually taken in scripture , either for the catholique church a which is called the church mysticall , or else it is taken for the church instituted , or particular churches b . q. what is the difference between the catholike , universall and mysticall church , and the instituted or particular churches ? a. they differ in their number ; for the catholike church is but one church , one body c but of the other sort in the dayes of the new testament there are many churches d . q wherein do they differ in respect of the matter ? a. the catholike church hath none in it but saints , and all true beleevers are in it e : but particular churches have some times many wolves within f , and many sheepe without g , though it ought not so to be : eph. 5. 23 , 25 , 26 , 27. heb. 12. 23. q. what is a third defference betweene them ? a. the forme which constitutes the catholike church is their union which christ by faith h but the forme of the other is the bond of an holy covenant i , to walk together in all the waies of christ . q. is there not some difference between them in regard of place ? a. yes , for some parts and members of the catholike church are now in heaven , and the rest shall all come thither in gods appointed time k ; but the members of particular or instituted churches are all of them upon the earth for the present , and some of them must never come in heaven l . q. what may be a fifth difference ? a. whereas particular churches are visible to themselves and others also , especially in times of peare m , the catholike church is properly a church invisible . q how is that proved , that the catholike church is invisible ? a. because some parts thereof are now in heaven : and those that are on earth never were nor will be all together that they might be seen . q. what may be a further proofe hereof ? a. their union whith christ wich is the form of that church , is knowne onely unto god . q name a sixth difference ? a. the catholike church and all the members of it continue for ever n ; but particular churches ! by persecutions and corruptions may come to be utterly dissolved and extinct o . q. what is a last difference betweene them ? a. the ordinary ministery appointed by christ is for the instituted and particular churches , but not for the church catholike as such , because that church hath no pastor nor bishop but christ . q. how may this appeare that ministers are not ministers of the universall church , but only of some particular congregation ? a. the church to whom the ministery belong is to chuse her owne ministers p but the unversall church never comes together to make any such choice : q. how else may this appeare ? a. there is no part of the church to which the ministery belongs , but it stands in need of ministers q . but a good part of the catholike church is glorious in heaven with christ , and therefore hath no such need q. what may be a third ground hereof ? a. the flock of god over which the holy ghost : doth make men overseers , is such as may be attended and watched over ; even the whole flocke and ministers thereof r : q. and why may not the same be said of the catholike church ? a. because that church is so large that it is not possible for any man to attend it or watch over it . q. is there any evill in it for one man to be a bishop or minister to all christians , where ever they be disposed of , and not onely to one congregation ? a. besides that such a man must needs neglect the greatest part of his charge , it is a great part of the usurpation of the bishop of rome , for which he is truely called antichrist , that he will take upon him to be universall bishop s over all the christians in the world q who is the head of the catholike church ? a. onely iesus christ t , as giving influence of life , sense and motion to the same , as the head doth unto the body : q who are the members of that church ? a. only they and all they that are effectually called to be true beleevers in christ : rev. 17. 14. iohn 15. 19. q. what are the parts of the catholike church ? a. according to the degrees of communion which they have with christ , so that church may be distinguished into that which is militant and that which is triumphant . q. vvhat is the church militant ? a. it is that part of the catholike church which is warring and fighting here on earth against spirituall enemies , the divell , the world and the flesh . eph. 6. 12. phil. 1. 30. & 2 cor. 10. 4. 1 tim. 1. 18. q. and what is the church triumphant ? a. it is that part of the catholike church which are now in heaven , gloriously triumphing over all those enemies which in this world they did conflict and combate withall . eph. 4. 13. heb. 12. 23. eph. 5. 27. chap. 29. of the instituted church , or perticular churches . q. what is the matter of particular or visible churches ? a. by the appointment of christ all churches ought to consist onely of true beleevers a and all that are true beleevers ought to joyn themselves unto some church b . q. if the matter of particular churches for the quality of it ought to be true beleevers in christ , what ought to be the quantity thereof ? q no more in number in the dayes of the new testament , but onely so many as may ordinarily meet together in one congregation , acts 2. 46. & 5. 12. & 3. 2. & 14. 27. & 15. 25. 1 cor. 5. 4. and 11. 17 , 18. and 14. 23. q. is any thing else needfull to the being of a visible church but onely the matter above mentioned ? a. timber and stones are not an house untill they be compacted and joyned together ; and as the humane soule and body are not man , unlesse they be united ; so beleevers are not a visible church , without some visible bond and union . q. and what is that bond that doth unite them ? a. an holy agreement and covenant c , with god and one another , to walke together in such duties of worship to god and edification of one another as the gospell of christ requireth of all churches and the members thereof : q. how many kinds of churches are there ? a. the visible church ( if we speake of that which is truely so called ) is one and the same in essence , from the beginning of the world to the end thereof ; namely a company of people united together in the profession of the true religion . q. but may not the true church be some way distinguished ? a yes ; for there is the church of the old testament , and the churches of the new : there are pure churches and churches that are corrupt ; and besides these that are true , there are also some that are false churches . q. what is the church of the old testament ? a a company of people united together in the profession of such a religion , or faith , whereby men beleeved on christ then to come . q. what is a church of the new testement ? a. a company of people united together in the profession of such a religion or faith whereby men beleeve on christ already come . q what are pure churches and churches that are corrupt ? a. a pure church is such a church whose matter forme , doctrine , worship , and ministery is accordding to the appointment of christ in the word . q. and what is a corrupt church ? a. such an one as in the things last mentioned or in some of them doth swerve from the appointment of christ , yet still holding the foundation of salvation . q. how if their swerving be such as overthroweth the foundation ? a. then they cease to be a true church , and become either no church , or at the best a false church . q. what is a false church ? a. one that is so exceedingly corrupt in regard of their constitution , doctrine , worship , ministery , that if men beleeve and walke according thereunto , they cannot be saved . q. and may not thus much befall a true church ? a. no ; a true church is either pure in these things , or if corrupt , yet not so corrupt as to overthrow salvation . chap. 30. of the power or liberty of churches , and of church officers . q. what is the power or liberty of particular churches ? a. it is not civill or worldly , for christs kingdome is not of this world a ; neither is it independent and supreame , for that belongs only to christ b ; but their power is spirituall and ministeriall . q. and wherein have they such power ? a. they have such power from christ to exercise all the ordinances of true religion , and to assemble together for the exercise thereof ; and in particular to choose officers to themselves , and to practice discipline or censures . q. whether have churches absolute power from christ to assemble together for the exercise of true religion , or onely so far forth as the princes of the earth shall give them leave ? a. princes ought not to hinder these things , but to be nursing fathers to the church c ; and it is a great blessing of god when they are such d . q. but if princes be not such , what ought the church to do in such case ? a. they must not neglect to observe the commandements of god , for lack of the commandement of man e , because jesus christ who giveth them commandement for these things , is the king of kings , and the prince of the kings of the earth f . q. to whom belongeth the power of choosing officers to the church ? a. the church is to choose her own officers , acts 1. 23. & 6. 3 , 5. & 14. 23. q. how may that be further cleared ? a. either the church must choose her own officers , or else men may intrude themselves ; or officers must be called immediately of god , or be appointed by some other men : none of which may be affirmed . q. why may not men intrude themselves ? a. no man must take this honour to himself to be an officer in the church , but he that is called of god , as was aaron , heb. 5. 4. q. and why may not a man be called of god immediately ? a. such kind of callings are not to be expected in these daies , as being particular to apostles and other extraordinary officers , gal. 1. 1. q. but why may no other men appoint officers to the church ? a. other men that are not of the church have no such authority given them as to appoint offices to the church . q. if men must not be officers without a calling , and immediate callings be ceased , and other men may not appoint church officers , it remaineth then that the church is to choose her own officers : but unto what functions must the church choose officers ? a. onely to such functions as are appointed by christ in his word g and are of ordinary and perpetuall use in the church ; for otherwise they cannot expect that god will be with them in the choise , or blesse the officers unto them . q. vvhat are the officers appointed by christ for ordinary and perpetuall use in the church ? a. they are bishops and deacons h , which bishops are also called elders i more particularly , they are pastors , teachers k , ruling elders l , deacons m , and widdows n . q. what are pastors ? a. they are elders of the chuch , who are to quicken the hearts of the people unto all faith and obedience , and to reprove and comfort where there is need , by attending upon exhortation o , with a word of wisdom . q. what are teachers ? a. they are elders of the church who are to instruct the people in the good knowledge of the lord , and to refute errour p by attending upon teaching sound doctrine with a word of knowledge q . q. what are ruling elders ? a. they are elders of the church , who though they doe not labour in the word and doctrine r , yet they are to guide the church in comelinesse and order , and peaceably attending upon ruling with diligence s . q. vvhat are deacons ? a. they are officers of the church , who are to retaine , preserve , and distribute t the outward treasures of the church , for the reliefe of the poore , and other outward affaires of the church , in simplicity and faithfulnesse u . q. vvhat are widows and their works ? a. they are godly and ancient women , left desolate and destitute of outward succour , who are to attend the sick , and such like offices as are more suitable to be performed by women then by men , 1 tim. 5. 9 , 10. rom. 16. 1. q. what persons must the church choose for these offices ? a. such members of the church w , as by sufficient experience , time , and triall x , are known to be fitted with gifts y and graces from god for the places that the church would put them in . q. how must officers be put into their places ? a. all of them by solemn prayer unto god , and with imposition of hands upon elders and deacons , and in the ordaining of elders with fasting also . acts 6. 6. 1 tim. 4. 14. & 5. 22. heb. 6. 2. acts 14. 26. chap. 31. of church discipline or censures . q. what is church discipline ? a. a personall application of the will of god by censures , for the preventing and removing of scandals . q. what are the parts of it ? a. binding and loosing a , which may be also called retaining and remitting of sinnes b ; and the former is either admonition c or excommunication d . q. what persons are subject to church-censures ? a. all and onely they that are member of the church , mat. 18. 15. 1 cor. 5. 12. psa. 149. 4. q. in what way , and by what steps and degrees must an offending brother be dealt withall ? a. if the matter be private , i must first reprove him privately ; if this doe not win him , i must then take one or two more , matth. 18. 15. 16. q. how if this also prevaile not ? a. then the matter must be told unto the church , and the church must publiquely admonish him ; and if he do not heare the church , he is to be excommunicated , mat. 18. 17. q. in what manner must admonition or reproof , whether private or publique , be administred ? a. sometimes with meeknesse e , and sometimes with severity and sharpnesse f , according to the condition of the person sinning , the sinne committed , and the manner of doing g . q. how else ? a. alwaies with due solemnity , as an ordinance of god h , in the name of christ , and so that the winning i of the party must be the thing that must be aymed at . q. vvhat is excommunication ? a. a putting away , or cutting off from the communion and fellowship of the church , 1 cor. 5. 2 , 13. gal. 5. 12. mat. 18. 17. q. for what sinnes must men be excommunicated ? a. for hainous and flagitious k offences being publiquely known , and for other offences persisted in with obstinacy after due admonition l . 1 cor. 5. 1 , 4 , 5. q. for what end should men be excommunicated ? a. for the healing of the offendor m , and for the preserving others from sinne n , and for the glory of the name of god which is blasphemed because of the sinne of church-members o q. how should a man behave himselfe towards them that are excommunicated ? a. he must avoyd all church-communion with them p , and all voluntary civill fellowship q , that may argue approbation or familiarity : but not such duties as men are bound unto in naturall or civill respects r . q. when must a man under censure be loosed and forgiven ? a. when he gives such signes of repentance as may satisfie rationall charity that the sinne is truly subdued and mortified , luke 17. 3 , 4. 1 cor. 5. 5. 2 cor. 2. 6 , 7 , 8. chap. 32. of the life that beievers ought to live in the world , and of the law of god . q. what ought to be the life of them that are in christ ? a. a course of holy obedience , and service to god all the daies of their life , luke 1. 74 , 75. 1 pet. 1. 14 , 15 , 16 , 17. tit. 3. 8. eph. 2. 10. q. vvhat is the generall rule of obedience ? a. not the commandements of men a , nor that which is good in our own eyes b , but that will of god which is therefore revealed unto us that we might do it c q. vvhether may not unbelievers perform duties of obedience ? a. they may performe many things which are good for the matter of them d , but not so as to please god in any thing they doe e . q. if they cannot please god in any thing they doe , had they not best then to neglect goods duties altogether ? a. not so : for they are nowhere exempted from the commandement . q. are believers able to performe obedience to god ? a. they are able by the power of christ that strengthens them , to doe the will of god in some measure of truth , as being now alive from the dead , and created in christ jesus to good works , phil. 4 13. eph. 2. 10. rom. 6. 11. q. but can they doe this in such perfection as the law of god requireth ? a. no , in no wise f , and the reason is because they know but in part g , and have flesh dwelling in them , and lusting against the spirit h . q. should they not then omit good duties altogether , seeing they cannot perform them in that perfection which the law requireth ? a. not so , but doe them in uprightnesse of heart , as god shall inable them i , because god of his mercy through christ hath promised to pardon their infirmities and sinnes , and to accept their sincere , though weake endeavours k . q. vvhat is the speciall rule according to which the life of a christian ought to be framed ? a. the life of a christian ought to be framed according to the morrall law of god , rom. 13. 8 , 9. eph 6 2 , 3 iam 2 8. q. how may that be further cleared ? a. because christians are not set at liberty to sinne l , and no man knoweth what is sinne but by the law m . q. how else ? a. because in the new covenant god doth not promise to take away the law , but to write it in our hearts n . q. vvhat rules are to be observed for our better understanding the commandements of the law ? a. every commandement of the law is spirituall . reaching not onely to the outward man , but also to the heart , soule , and conscience , rom. 7. 14. mat. 5. 22 , 28. q. what is another rule ? a. under the negative part the affirmative is comprehended , and under the affirmative the negative , mark 3. 4. psal. 34. 14. q. what may be a third rule for the same purpose ? a. under one vice forbidden , all of the same kind are forbidden also ; with all the causes , occasions , and signes thereof . and under one duty are commanded all of the same kind , with all the means and helps thereof . q. vvhat may be a fourth rule ? a. god requireth not only that we keep the law our selves , but that as much as is in us we cause others to keep it also . q. how many are the commandements of the law ? a. in respect of the generall heads they are ten o ; but all may be referred to two kinds : duties to god in the foure first commandements , and duties to our neighbour in the six latter . q. vvhat is the main scope of the first commandement , thou shalt have no other gods before me ? a. here is required all that naturall worship of god , whether the same be inward or outward , which is such as if there were no law prescribed , yet if we well know his nature , we would undoubtedly perform it to him . q. name some principall duties that are here required , with the contrary vices forbidden ? a. here is required faith in god p , love to his majesty q , and hope in him r , hearing his voice s , calling upon him by prayer t , and such like . q. and what are the evils forbidden in this first commandement ? a. here is forbidden atheisme u , ignorance of god w , unbeliefe x , dispaire y , pride z , hatered a , and contempt of god b , and all inordinate setting of our hearts upon any creature c , q what is the maine scope of the second commandement ? a. the second commandement enjoyneth all that worship of god which is by divine institution and ordinance mat. 28. 20. deut. 12. 32. q what are some of the particulars ? a. the publike and solemne preaching and hearing of his word d , and prayer e , celebration of sacraments f church , fellowship g , election and ordaining of ministers and their whole ministration h , with the due observation of church discipline i , q. what is the evill here forbidden ? a. all neglect of the instituted worship of god k , and all worshipping of him after the images , imaginations or inventions of men l q. what is the sum of the third commandement ? a. the things here required are the due manner of observing and using all things that pertaine to the naturall or instituted worship of god , and all that name of god whereby he makes himselfe knowne unto his people ? q. shew it by some instances ? a. here is required preparations to gods service m , reverence n , devotion o , sincerity p , fruitfulnesse under ordinances q , comlinesse r , or der s , and such like . q. what is the evill forbidden in the third commandement ? a. all rash vaine and light using of the titles t , word u , and ordinances of the lord w , as sleeping at sermons x or at prayer , and wandering thoughts at the same y , all confusions in church meeting z , and all using of any thing that is called gods name , otherwise then it ought to be used a q. what is the summe of the fourth commandement ? a. the consecrating and observing of that seventh part of time in gods solemne worship which he hath instituted and ordayned , which is the holy keeping of the sabbath isay 58. 13. q. what is the maine sinne here forbidden ? a. all holy dayes of mens devising without warrant of his word b , and all profaining of the lords holy time or any part of it c , by needlesse words , works , or thoughts . q vvhat is required in the fifth commandement ? a. to maintaine and yeeld unto men that honour that is due unto them in respect of their places and degrees , whether they be naturall parents d , husbands e , masters f , magistrates g , ministers h , aged persons i , or any other superiours , or qualls , and inferior k q. vvhat is the contrary evill here forbidden ? a. all such carriage as tends to the dishonour of our neighbours . q. vvhat is required in the sixth commandement ? a. due care of the life and person of our neighbour the contrary whereof is murder l ; fighting and quarrelling m , rash anger n , malice , hatred o , and envy p , and such like . q. vvhat is the summe of the seventh commandement ? a. due care of chastity and purity from all the lusts of uncleannesse . q. instance in some of the sinnes here forbidden ? a. here is forbidden all unchast thoughts and lust of the heart q , filthy dreames r , lookes s , speeches t , and apparrell u , gestures of dalliance w , actions of sodomie x , bestiality y , selfe polution z , adultery a , fornication b , and wantonnesse c , q. vvhat is the summe of the eight commandement ? a. due care of our neighbours outward estate whether it be lands , houses , cattell , corne , or ought else . q. name some of the sins forbidden in this commandement ? a. here is forbidden all neglect or hindrance of our neighbours outward estate , whether it be by idlenesse d , covetousnesse e , non payment of debts f , oppression g , by excessive prices or wages , robbery h , theevery i , or deceit k , q vvhat is the summe of the ninth commandement ? a. truth in speeches , promises and our dealings amongst men ; and the contrary forbidden is all lying and false speaking , eph. 4. 25. col. 3. 9 , 10 psal. 15 , 2. micah 6. 12. psa. 12. 2. q what is the summe of the tenth commandement ? a. contentment with out owne outward estate l , and not to covet that which is our neighbours m , but hartily to desire and rejoyce in his good , as well as in our own n , chap 33. of the death and resurrection of the body , and the last judgement . q what is to be believed concerning death ? a. it is now appointed of god , that adam and all his children must die a , except enoch b and elias c , and such as shall be found alive at the comming of christ to judgement d . q why hath god so appointed ? a. because of sinne e , for if sinne had not entered into the world , there had never been death . q. but why should believers die , seeing christ hath suffered death for them , and so hath taken away all punishment of sinne ? a. they die not now in way of punishment for their sinne properly , but for other ends and repects . q. for what ends doe they die ? a. that they may be freed from all the evils of this life f , and be brought to rest and glory with christ g . q. what is the state of the godly immediately upon their death ? a. their bodies doe sleep in the grave , as in the bed of spices h , and their soules which are immortall are made glorious in the presence of god in heaven i . q and what is the state of the wicked upon their death ? a. their bodies lie rotting in the grave , through the heavy curse of god k ; and their soules are tormented in hell , in unspeakable woe and misery l . q. shall the bodies of men lie for ever in the grave , and never be united to their soules again ? a. not so , for there will be a resurrection of the just and unjust m , and all that are in the graves shall come forth n . q. in what manner shall the bodies of the saints arise ? a. for substance the same bodies that they were at death o ; but for quality greatly changed p , insomuch that they shall be raised incorruptible , glorious , powerfull , and spirituall q . q. vvhat great matter is it for godly men to rise again , seeing wicked men shall rise also ? a. they shall not rise by vertue of any union with christ as their head , as the godly shall r ; but onely by the power of christ , as their judge s . q. vvherein else doth the resurrection of the godly and wicked differ ? a. the wicked shall not rise in such a glorious and excellent manner , nor unto the same end with the godly , but to the resurrection of damnation , iohn 5. 29. q. what followeth after the resurrection ? a. the eternall judgement , heb. 6. 2. & 9. 27. q. when will the day of judgement be ? a. it is certainly appointed and decreed of god when it shall be t ; but it is not known to us that we might alwaies live in watchfulnesse u q. who must be judge at that day ? a. jesus christ is appointed of god to be the judge of quick and dead . acts 10. 42. & 17. 31. iohn 5. 22 , 27. 2 tim. 4. 1. 2 cor. 5. 10. q. who must be judged ? a. all the world , both living and dead ; and this of all things done in this life , whether they be good or evil . acts 17 , 31. 2 cor. 5. 10. 2 tim. 4. 1. 1 pet. 4. 5. q. in what manner will be come ? a. he will come suddenly w , visibly x , and in wonderfull majesty and glory y , in flaming fire z , with the voyce of the archangell a , and thousand thousands of angels b . q. what sentence will he give ? a. to them upon his right hand he will say , come ye blessed of my father , inherit the kingdome prepared for you from the foundation of the would . matth. 25. 34. q. and what will be his sentence upon the wicked at his left hand ? a. to them upon his left hand he will say , goe ye cursed into everlasting fire , prepared for the divel and his angels , matth. 25. 41. q. what shall follow the pronouncing of the sentence ? a. the sentence pronounced shall presently be put in execution , so that every man shall receive according to his works . matth. 25. 46. 2 cor. 5. 10. mat. 16. 27. q. what shall the wicked receive ? a. they shall be punished with everlasting perdition from the presence of the lord , and from the glory of his power c , with the divell and his angels d , in the lake that burneth with fire and brimstone , which is the second death e , q. and what shall the godly receive ? a. they shall have redemption and deliverance from all kind of evil f . q. and what good shall they enjoy ? a. wonderfull g , unspeakable and unconceivable h , and everlasting i happinesse and glory in the highest heavens k , in the presence of god l , in whose presence is fulnesse of joy , and at whose right hand are pleasures for evermore m . the contents of the severall chapters . chap. page . 1. of catechizing , as an introduction to that which followeth 1 2. of the holy scriptures 4 3. of god 8 4. of gods decree 13 5. of creation 17 6. of gods providence 21 7. of angels 27 8. of the estate of man in innocency by creation 28 9. of the fall of our first parents 31 10. of sinne , the definition of it , and the distribution into originall and actuall 35 11. of the punishment of sinne 39 12. of mans deliverance 42 13. of the person of christ , his godhead and his manhood 45 14. of the office of christ , as mediator between god and man 48 15. of the covenant between god and man , the covenant of works , and the covenant of grace , and the difference between them 51 16. of the propheticall , priestly , and kingly office of christ : and specially of the propheticall 55 17. of the priesthood of christ 58 18. of the kingly office of christ 61 19. of christs humiliation 63 20. of the exaliation of christ , and of his resurrection from the dead 67 21. of christs ascension into heaven 71 22. of christs sitting at the right hand of god , and his return to the last judgement 74 23. of faith and union with christ 76 24. of iustification , and of adoption 81 25. sanctification , and the difference between that and justification , and of some other benefits of christ unto believers 85 26. of the necessity of faith , its perfection at the first , and the meanes whereby it may be increased . of hearing the word , of baptisme , and the lords supper 88 27. of prayer , and some other means of increasing faith 93 28. of the church catholike or mysticall , and the difference between it , and particular instituted churches 97 29. of the instituted church , or particular churches 102 30. of the power or liberty of churches , and of church officers 104 31 of church-discipline or censures 109 32. of the life that believers in christ ought to live in the world , and of the law of god 111 33. of death , the resurrection of the body , and the last judgement . 120 finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a50246e-420 a heb. 6. 2. b heb. 5. 12. c heb. 6. 1. d ps. 119. 130. e heb. 5. 12 , 13. 1 cor. 3. 1 , 2. f 2 tim. 1. 13. g heb. 5. 12 , 23. & 6. 1 , 2. 1 cor. 3. 1 , 2. h eccles. 12. 13. deut. 4. 13. matth. 22. 37 , 38 , 39 , 40. 2 tim. 1. 13. mat. 6. 9. i psa. 119. 130. k heb. 5. 12 , 13. l prov. 22. 6. m 2 pet. 2. 14. & 3. 16. n 2 tim. 1. 13. o eccles. 12. 13. heb. 8. 1. deut. 4. 13. matth. 22. 40. & 6 9 , 10. &c. p heb. 5. 12. 1 cor. 3. 2. mar. 4. 33. 1 cor. 14. 19. q luke 2. 47. act. 2. 38. 1 pet. 3. 15. r prov. 22. 6. deut. 4 9 , 10. psa. 78. 5 , 6. & 34. 11. mat. 21. 15 , 16. luke 2. 47. eph. 6. 4. s heb. 5. 12 , 13 1 cor. 3. 1 , 2. u prov. 4 13. & 8. 32 , 33. & 23 12 , 23. x prov. 1. 5. & 10. 17. & 12. 1. iob 34. 32. act. 18. 26. a heb. 1. 1. b num. 12. 6 , 8. c iob 33. 14 , 15. gen. 40. 8. d gen. 32. 24. exod. 13. 21. e gen. 22. 15. exod. 20. 2. f is. 30. 8. g deut. 31. 9. psa. 102. 18 h isa. 8. 20. 2 pet. 1. 19. i 2 cor. 3. 14. k 2 tim. 3. 15. rom. 1. 2. l act. 1. 16. & 4. 25. m luke 13. 28. 2 pet. 1. 21. n tit. 1. 1. 1 tim. 6. 3. 2 tim. 3. 17. o 2 tim. 3. 16. p 2 pet. 1. 21. q heb. 4. 12. 1 cor. 14. 25. 2 cor. 10. 4 , 5. r psal. 19. 8 , &c. & 119 93 , 103. s iohn 20. 31. t 2 tim. 3. 15. u 2 tim. 3. 17. w gal. 1. 8 , 9. revel. 22. 18. x deut. 17. 18 , 19. iosh. 1. 8. y 2 tim 3. 17. 1 tim. 4. 13. z deut. 6. 7. a ps. 19. 7. & prov. 1. 4. b acts 18. 26. 2 ioh. 1. c psa. 119. 9. d 2 tim. 3. 15 a iohn 17. 3. col. 2. 2 , 3. b exod. 20. 3. isa. 42. 8. heb. 11. 5. iohn 17. 3. c rom. 1. 20. psal. 9. 1. iob 12. 7 , 8 , &c. a ioh. 5. 32. & 8. 16 , 17 , 18. b ioh. 1. 1. 1 ioh. 2. 1. phil. 2. 6. c ioh. 14. 16. & 15. 26. is. 48. 16. d ps. 2. 7. ioh. 3. 16. e ioh. 1. 18. heb. 1. 13. f ioh. 15. 16. g matth. 10. 20. h gal. 4. 6. rom. 8. 9. i col. 29. isa. 9. 9. ioh. 1. 1 rom. 9. 5. prov. 8. 22. &c. ioh. 17. 5. col. 1. 16. k acts 5. 3. 4. & 28. 25. with is. 6. 9. 1 cor. 6. 19. with 2 cor. 6. 16. iob. 33. 4. 1 cor. 2. 10. l deut. 29. 29. m exod. 33. 23. n exod. 34. 6 , 7. o psal. 19. 1. & 8. 1. iob. 36. 24. &c. & 37. 1. 2. &c. p iob. 12 , 13. rom. 11. 33. & 16. 27. q gen. 17. 1. & 18. 14. matth. 19. 26. psal. 115. 3. r matth. 19. 17. psal. 119. 68. s psal. 108. 4. rom. 3 , 4. tit. 1. 2. t psal. 92. last . zeph. 3. 5. rom. 9. 14. iob. 8. 3. & 34. 10. & 36. 23. u psal. 103. 11. iam. 5. 11. w 1 kings 8. 27. isa. 66. 1. ier. 23. 24. psal. 139. 7 , &c. x ps. 90. 2. & 93 , 3. & 102. 26 , 27. a exod. 21. 13. prov. 16. 33. b prov. 21. 1. ps. 33. 15. c act. 2. 28. & 4. 28. d matth. 20. 29. 30. e 1 pet 1. 20. rev. 13. 18. f ephes. 1. 4. 2 tim. 1. 9. 1 thes. 5 9. g iud. 4. rom. 9. 22. h iob. 14. 5. 14. i act. 17. 31. k eph. 1. 11. psal. 115. 3. & 135. 6. l rom. 9. 19 , 20. m acts 27. 24. eph. 1. 4. 2 thes. 2. 13. deut. 29. 29. o luk. 22. 22. mat. 18. 7. p rom. 9. 11 , &c. eph. 1. 4 , 5 , 11. math. 25. 34 , 41 , luk. 10 20. q eph. 1. 5. 11. rom. 8. 29. r rom. 9. 3. ier. 31. 3. s eph. 1. 5. rom. 9. 15. 2 tim. 1. 9. t eph. 1. 4. ier. 31. 3. u 2 tim. 2. 19. act. 13. 48. w eph. 11. 5. rom. 8. 29. x 1 thes. 5. 9. rom. 9. 23. y ephes. 1. 3 , 4. ioh. 17. 2. z ephes. 1. 6. rom. 9. 23. a rom. 9. 11 , 15 , 18 , 21. b iude. 4. c mat. 7. 23. rev. 13. 8. & 17. 8. d iude. 4. rom. 9. 21 , 22. e rom. 3. 9 , 19. f 9. 17 , 22. a ioh. 1. 3. 10. col. 1. 16. b iob 26. 13 and 33. 4. c isa. 44. 25. iob. 9. 8. d gen. 1. 3. psal. 33. 6. 9. and 148. 5. heb. 11. 3. e psal. 33. 9 f gen. 1. exod 10 11. a act. 17. 18. 1. tim. 4. 10. ps. 36. 6. b psal. 29. 10. & 103. 19. c neh. 9. 6. d ps. 104. 29. e psal. 145. 15 , 16. and 104. 21. & 147. 9. luk. 12. 6. f prov. 16. 1. 33. ioh. 14. 5. psal. 31. 16. eph. 1. 10. ioh. 8. 20. g dan. 4. 25 , 32 , psa. 76. 12. iob. 12. 17 , 18 , 19 , 20. ps. 135. 7. & 113. 7 , 9. mat. 10. 29. prov. 16. 1. 1. king. 20. 23. h amos 3. 6. isa. 45. 7. lam. 3. 37 , 38. i prov. 16. 1 , 33. exod. 21. 13. 1 king 22. 34. k ezek. 14. 9. deut. 2. 30. isa. 29 , 9. 10. gen. 45. 8. 2. sam. 12. 11. l deut. 29. 3 , 4 , 2 chron. 32. act. 14. 16. m 1. king. 22. 22 , 23. 1 sam. 16. 15. 16. n iam. 1. 13. o 1. ioh. 2. 18. p isa. 6. 3 , 9. 10. q eccle. 7. 29 , r gen. 2. 17. rom. 7. 12. s eccles. 7. 29. t hos. 13. 9. u psal. 115. 3. and 135. 6. w 2 king. 14. 27. hos. 2. 21 , 22. x deut. 9. 18. & 29. 5 , 6. 1 king 19. 8 , isay. 37. 30. y 1 cor. 1. 26 , 27. iudg. 7. 2 , 3. 2 chron. 24. 24. 2 sam. 14 , 7. amos 5. 9. ier. 37. 10 , z ps. 78. 9 , 10. eccles. 9. 13. hos. 4. 10. ps. 127. 1 , 2 , 3. a iosh. 3. 15 , 16. & 10. 13. & 2 king. 20. 10 , 11. dan. 3. 27. 2 king. 6. 6. b ps. 104. 4. heb. 1. 14. luk. 24. 39. c mat. 22. 30. d luk. 20. 36. e ps. 103. 20. 2 pet. 2. 11. f 2 sam. 14. 20. mat. 18. 10. g isa. 6. 2. ezek. 1. 6. dan. 9. 21. h gen. 1. 31. luk. 9. 26. i isa. 6. 2 , 3. ps. 103. 20. k heb. 1. 14. a gen. 1. 26. b rom. 1. 19 , 20. ier. 31. 34. c gen. 2. 19 , 20 , 23. d gen. 2. 24. rom. 2. 15. e gen. 1. 29. a 1 tim 2. 14 b gen 3. 6. c rom. 5. 12 , 19. & 3. 23. 1 cor. 15. 22. d 1 tim 2. 14. rom. 5. 15. 17 , 18 e rom 5. 19 : f gen. 3. 6. and 2. 17. a 1 ioh. 3. 4. b rom. 4. 15. c rom. 7. 17. eph 21. and 4 , 18. d gen. 6. 5. and 8. 21. rom. 7. 23. e rom. 3. 10 , 11. and 5. 12. and 3. 23. f 1 thes. 5. 23. ier. 10. 14. tit. 1. 15. rom. 8. 7. gal. 5. 24. rom. 6. 19. g 2 eph. 3. 1 , 2. mat. 25. 42 , 43 &c. iam. 4. 17. h iam. 4. 3. i gen. 6. 5. k math. 12. 34 , 36 , 37. l col. 1 ▪ 21. isa. 59. 6. m rom 3. 10. 11 &c. iam. 3. 2. 1 ioh. 1. 8. eccles. 7. 20. n isa. 37. 29. hos. 2. 6 , 7. o rom. 2. 14 , 15. p gen. 4. 4. q gen. 6. 5. ier. 17. 9. r math. 12. 33 , 34 , 35. and 15. 19 , 20. pro. 15. 8. and 28. 9. a gen. 2. 17. rom. 5. 12. and 6. 23. b col. 3. 10. c deut. 28. 15. and 29. 20. d deut. 28. 61. e gen. 3. 17 , 18. f rom. 8. 20 , 21. g deut. 28 21 , 22 , 27 , 35 , 48. gen 3. 19. h deut. 28. 20 , 37. pro. 10. 7. i deut. 28 30 , 41. k deut. 28. 16 , 17 , 18 , 38 , 39 , 40. l mal . 2. 2. psal. 69. 22. m rom. 3. 23. eph. 4. 18. isa. 59 2. n eph. 2. 2. 2 cor 4. 4. 2 tim. 2. 26. o math. 12. 33 , 34 , 35. ioh. 9. 35. rom. 6. 16 , 18 , 19 , 20. p psal. 81. 12. rom. 1. 24 , 29 , 28 , q exod. 9. 12. r isa. 6. 9 , 10. s 2 thes. 2. 11. t math. 25. 41. 2 thes. 1. 9. u luk. 13. 28. rev. 21. 27. and 22. 15. w luk. 13. 28. psal. 1. 5. x luk. 16. 24 , 25. y math. 13. 42. luk. 13. 28. z 1 pet. 3. 19. a isa. 30. 33. b rev. 11. 8. c math. 25. 41. a rom. 5. 6. b isa. 65. 1. rom. 3. 11. c gen. 3. 8. d rom. 8. 7. e psal. 49. 7. c iob 22. 3. & 35. 7. rom. 11. 25. a isa. 9. 6. pro. 8. 22. iohn 8. 58. & 17. 5. col. 1. 15. rev. 1. 8. b rev. 1. 8. iohn 3. 31. c iohn 21. 7. & 2. 24 , 25. rev. 2. 23. mat. 9. 4. d iohn 3. 13. mat. 28. 20. eph. 3. 17. e 1 iohn 1. 3. 10. col. 1. 16. f mat. 6. 9. g luke 8. 31. & 4. 36. mat. 10 1. h heb. 1. 6. iohn 14. 1. i exod. 27. 1. k acts 2. 24. l acts 20. 28. m 1 tim. 2. 5. mat. 8. 20. n iohn 1. 14. o heb. 2. 14. luke 24. 39. p heb. 2. 14. q heb. 2. 11. r heb. 4 15 , 16. s gal. 4. 4. t mat. 1. 20. luke 1. 34 , 55. heb. 7. 3. a 1 pet. 1. 20. 2 tim. 1. 9. b gen. 315. rev. 13. 8. heb. 138. a isai. 3. 17. b heb. 8. 6. & 9. 15. & 12. 24. c mal. 3. 1. d gal. 42. 6. & 49. 8. e gen. 2. 17. f ier. 31. 34. g ezek 36 , 26 , 27. h ier. 31 , 33 i rom. 10. 5. k rom. 8 3. l acts 16 31. m rom. 3. 20. n gal. 4. 24 o rom. 4 15. p rom. 8 3. q 2 cor. 3. 6 , 8 , 9. r rom. 1. 16. s ier. 31. 32. t gal. 5. 18. rom. 6. 14. u isa. 54. 10. ier. 32. 40. w ier. 31. 31. heb. 8 8 , 13 : a deut. 18. 18 acts 3. 22 , 23. b isai 9 6. c mal. 3. 1. d mat. 23. 10. e heb. 3. 1. f heh. 12. 25. g 1 pet. 2. 25. h rev. 1. 5. & 3 14. i heb 1. 1. k iohn 5. 39 col. 3 16. l eph. 4. 1● , 12. luke 10. 16. 2 cor. 5. 20. m isai 42. 1 , 2 & 61. 1 , 2. mat. 4. 25. & 9. 35. n 1 pet. 1. 11. & 3. 19. o mat. 28. 19 , 20. p iohn 8. 20. gal. 1. 8 , 9. 1 iohn 4. 1. 2 iohn 9. 10. a heb. 7. 13 , 14. b heb. 7. 3. c heb. 7. 21. d heb. 7. 23 , 24 , 25. e heb. 8. 3. f heb. 7. 25. g eph. 5 2. heb. 9. 26. h isai 53. 10 , 12. i heb. 10. 10. k heb. 9. 12. 22. l heb. 9. 14. m heb. 9. 26. & 10. 10 , 12 , 14 n eph. 5. 2. w mat. 23. 19. x iohn 17 19. heb 9 14. y 1 pet. 2. 5. rev 1. 6. z heb. 7. 28. a heb 9 24. b heb. 12. 24. & 9. 12. c rom. 18 34. iohn 17. 24. d 1 iohn 2. 1 , 2. e iohn 17. 11. luke 22. 32. f 1 pet. 2. 5. exod. 28. 38. rev. 8. 3 g rom. 8. 33 , 34. zecb 3 1 , 2. h heb. 7. 25. iohn 17. 24. a psal. 2. 6. ier. 23. 5. zech. 9. 9. luke 1. 32 , 33. iohn 1. 49. b rev. 2. 21 : heb. 1. 8. c heb. 2 9. can. 3. 11. revel. 19. 12. d psal. 45. 6. & psal. 110. 2. e isa. 9. 6. f acts 2. 36. g 1 cor. 15 24 , 28. h heb. 2. 8. phil. 2 10 , 11. i psal. 2. 6. zech. 9. 9. k iohn 17. 2 , 6 , 12. eph. 1. 22. l psal. 110. 1 , 2 , 3. isai 43. 5 , 6. m 1 cor. 12. 4. eph. 4. 11. mat. 28. 20. n iam. 4. 12. isai 33. 22. o rom. 6. 14. 2 kings 19. 28. iob 1. 12. & 2. 6. p psa. 110. 1 , 5 , 6. heb. 2 14. 1 cos. 15. 25 , 26. q psa. 2. 6. mat. 28. 18. luke 1 32. r rom. 14. 17. iohn 18 36. luke 17. 20. s rev. 1. 5. & 19. 16. t psa. 45. 6 , 7. rev. 19. 11. u psa. 2. 8. & 72. 8 , 9 , 10 , 11. w psa. 45. 6. dan. 7. 14. luke 1. 33. a phil. 2 7. iohn 17. 5. b heb. 2. 14 , 16. iohn 1 14. phil. 2. 7. c gal. 4 4. d phil. 2 7. isai 53. 2 , 3. psal. 22. 6. e mat. 2. 14. f mat. 8. 20. luk. 8. 3. g luk. 2. 51. h mat. 4. 1. luke 4. 13. i acts 10. 38. iohn 4. 6. k iohn 8. 48. 52. 59. luk. 4. 28. 29. l 1 phil. 2 : 8. m gal : 3. 13. n mat. 27. 38. o mat : 27. 21. p math. 27. 60. q acts 2. 27. r rom. 3. 25. 1 tim. 2. 5. 6. 1 iob. 2. 1. 2. s rom. 5. 9. 10. a heb. 12. 2. b phil. 3. 21. c math 28. 6. luke 20. 39. d 1 pet. 3. 18. rom : 14. 9. e mat : 28. 6. iohn 20. 6. 7. f luke 24. 34. g math : 28. 5 , 6. mark : 16. 6. 7. luk. 24. 4 , 5 , 6. h math. 28. 11. i math. 28. 9. 10. luk. 24. 9. 10. k act. 10. 41. l act. 2. 24. 32. and 3. 15. and 4. 10. 33. and 5. 30. 31. 32. and 10. 40. 1 cor. 15. 4 , 5 , 6 , 15. m mark 16. 9. n math : 28. 9. 10. o luk. 24. 13. p ioh. 2c . 19. q ioh. 20 26. r ioh. 21. 1. 2. s mat. 28. 16. t acts 1. 12. u 1 cor. 15. 6. w act. 2. 24. eph. 1. 19. 20. x ioh. 2. 19. and 10. 18. y rom. 1. 4. z luk. 24. 46. psa. 16. 10. and 110. 7. isa. 53. 10. 11. 12. a rom. 4. 25. 1 cor. 15 17. b rom. 14. 9. 10. phil. 2. 8 , 9. 10. c rom. 4. 25. 1 cor. 15. 17. 1 pet. 3. 21. d 1 pet. 1. 3. rom. 6. 4. eph. 2. 5. 6. col. 2. 12. and 31. e 1 cor. 15. 20 , 21 , 22. rom. 8. 11. 2 cor. 4 14. a ioh. 3. 13. b mat. 18. 20. and 28. 20. and rev. 2. 1. c ioh. 16 28. mat. 26. 11. act. 3. 21. d mark . 16. 19. act. 1. 2. 9. 11. e eph. 4. 10. f luk 24. 44. psal. 68. 18. g heb. 6. 20. and 7. 26. and 8. 4. h luk. 24. 26. i psa. 68. 18. k eph. 4. 8. 11. l iohn 14. 16 , 17. & 16. 7. acts 2. 33. m iohn 14. 2. 3. a 1 pet. 3. 22. b psa. 110 1. c ioh. 5. 27. a ier. 3. 22. ioh. 6. 44 , 45. and 10. 16. isa. 55. 5. b iohn 6. 44. c act. 13. 41. d eph : 2 : 1 : e acts 16 , 14. phil. 1. 29. 2 cor. 4 , 13. rom. 15. 13. f rom. 10. 14 , 17. act. 15. 7. g gal. 3. 24. rom. 10. 4. h rom. 3. 20. and 7 , 9 , 10. i rom. 4. 15 : exod. 20. 18 , 19. k rom. 8. 15. l ioh. 3. 16. act. 13 , 38. 39. 1 tim. 1. 15. m ioh. 16. 9. n ioh. 6. 44. o luk. 3. 4 , 5. and 15 , 17 , 18 , 19. p mat : 11. 28. ioh : 6. 37. isa. 55. 1. 2. ●2 cor : 5. 20. q iohn 6. 44 , 45 ier. 3. 22. iohn 13. 15. rom. 1. 16. r zac. 12. 10. s gal. 3. 2. 2 cor. 3. 8. t act. 24. 14. u ioh. 3. 16. act. 16. 31. w rom. 10. 8 , 14 ; 15. x act. 24. 14. y iam. 2. 19. mark . 1. 24. z ioh. 6. 35. 44 , 45 , 65. a eph. 1. 12. 2 tim. 1. 12. isa. 50. 10. b cant. 8. 5. c rom. 8. 30. act. 13. 48. ioh. 6 , 37. and 10. 26. d rom : 10. 10. act. 8 , 37. e iohn 5. 40. rom : 10. 3. ier. 2. 31 , 36. luke 15. 16. f iohn 5 44. g ier. 4. 3. 4. h matth. 1. 3. 5 , 6 , 20 , 21. luk. 8. 6 , 13. i iohn 12. eph. 3. 17. k rom. 8. 32. 1 cor. 3 22. l 1 cor 6. 17. m 1 ioh. 5. 12. cant. 2. 16. n rom. 16. 7. 2 cor : 5. 17. o eph. 3. 17. ioh. 6. 56 : p 1 cor. 6. 17. ioh. 17. 21. q eph. 5. 23. r ioh. 15. 4. 5. s col. 2. 19. eph. 4. 16. 1 cor. 12. 12. t act. 9. 4. 5. math. 25. 40. 45. u rom. 8. 1. w 1 cor. 3. 22. 23. x rom. 3. 24. acts 13. 39. y iohn 1. 12. gal. 3. 26. z 1 cor. 1. 30. and 6. 11. eph : 5. 26. a rom : 8 : 32. a prov. 17. 15. dent . 25. 1. mat. 12. 37. rom. 8. 33. b exod. 34. 7. rom. 2. 2. gen. 18. 25. prov 17. 15. c rom. 3. 2c . gal. 3. 11. & 2. 16. psal. 143. 2. phil. 3. 9. d isai 64. 6. psal. 130. 3. e rom. 4. 6. f rom. 3. 28. & 4. 5. & gal. 2. 16. g rom. 3. 28. gal. 2 16. phil. 39. h ier. 23. 6. i acts 13 39. 2 cor. 5. 21. k rom. 8. 30. isai 45. 25. l rom. 5. 4 , 5. & 5. 10. m rom. 8. 30 gal. 2. 16. rom. 3. 30. n 1 iohn 31. o eph. 1. 5. p eph. 2. 19. q 2 cor. 6. 17 , 18. iohn 1. 12. gal. 3. 26. r iohn 1. 12. gal. 4. 4 , 5. s eph. 2 12. 2 cor. 6. 18. t rom. 8. 29. heb. 2. 11 , 12. iohn 20. 17. u rom 8. 17. w gal 4. 6. rom. 8. 15. x matth. 7. 9 , 10 , 11. a 1 cor. 6. 11. 2 cor. 5. 17. b 1 thess. 5. 23. 2 thess. 2. 13. c isai 4. 5. eph. 1. 4. d acts 15. 9. & 26. 18. e 1 thes. 5. 23. f 2 cor. 7. 1. eph. 4. 22 , 24. rom. 6. 3 , 4 , 11. g ier. 236. 2 cor. 5. 21. rom. 46 h 2 pet. 14. gal. 5. 22. i rom. 7. 14 , 15 , 18 , 19 , 21 , 23. phil. 3. 12 , 13. isai 6. 5. k psal. 130. 3. & 143. 2. iob 9. 2 , 3 , 14 , 15 , 20 , 21. a 1 cor. 13. 9 , 12. 2 thes. 1. 3. with 1 thes. 3. 10. b mat. 8. 26. & 12. 20. c rom. 1. 17. 2 thes. 1. 3. iob 17. 9. d 1 pet. 2. 2. eph. 4 12. pro. 1. 5. & 9. 9. e psa. 92. 13 & 65. 4. 1 thes. 5. 11. f rom. 4. 11. 1 cor. 10 16. g mark 9. 24. luke 17. 5. h acts 17. 11 , 12. i psa. 119. 99. k acts 13. 14 , 15 , 16 , 44. & 20. 7. & acts 15. 21. & luke 4. 16. l 2 tim 4. 2. pre. 8. 34. luke 10. 39 , 40 , 41 , 42. m 1 pet. 2. 1 , 2. iam. 1. 21. n eccl. 5. 1 , 2. o deut. 5. 27 , 28 , 29. ier. 42. 5 , 6. p isay 48. 17. acts 16. 14. q nehem. 8. 3. luke 4. 20. acts 10. 33. r mat. 13. 20. luke 24. 32. s heb. 4. 2. 1 thes. 1. 5. t 2 cor. 7. 1. heb. 13. 5 , 6. psal. 40. 7. u deut. 11. 18. luke 2. 19. 51. psalm 119. 97. w deut. 6. 7. luke 2. 15. & 24. 32. x 1 chro. 29. 18. 1 cor. 3. 6 , 7. y iam. 1. 22 , 23 , 24 , 25. mat. 7. 24 , 26. ezek. 33. 31 , 32. z exod. 20. 4 mat. 17. 5. & 23. 8. a acts 8. 36. & 10. 47. b eph. 5. 26 c mat. 28 19. d rom 6 3. gal. 3. 27. 1 cor. 12. 13. e acts 2. 38. mark 1. 4. f tit. 3. 5. eph. 5. 26. rom. 3. 4. g acts 8. 37. & 16. 15 , 36. & 8. 12. h acts 2. 39 gen. 17. 12. 1 cor. 7. 14. k iohn 3. 16. rom. 8. 32. l eph. 5. 2. iohn 17. 19. m iohn 1. 12. and eph. 3. 17. iohn 6. 35. n 1 cor. 10. 16. o exod. 12. 26 , 27. & 1 cor. 11. 28 , 29. p zac. 12. 10. isai 55. 1. rev. 22. 17. iohn 7. 37. q heb. 11. 6. iohn 6. 35. r psal. 26. 6. hag. 2. 12 , 13. s mat. 5. 23 , 24. 1 cor. 10. 17. t 1 cor. 11. 25 , 26. a psa. 25. 1. 1 sam. 1. 13 b rom. 8. 26 , 27. c hos. 14. 2. psa. 5. 1. d iohn 17. 1. lam. 3. 43. ps. 6. 8 & 142. 2. e 1 kings 8. 39. f heb. 5. 7. gen. 17. 1. g mat. 4. 10 h rom. 10. 14. i psa. 50. 15. k 2 sam. 7. 18 , 19. l mat. 7. 13 , 14. m 1 iohn 5. 16. n 1 tim. 2. 1 , 2. o mat. 6. 9. iam. 5. 16. p mat. 5. 44. luke 23. 34. acts 7. 60. q iohn 17. 20. r 1 iohn 5. 14. s mat. 6. 9. t psal. 139. 2. u iam. 1. 17. psal. 33 11. w ezek. 36. 37. 2 sam. 7. 27. x iohn 9 : 31. y psal. 10. 17. z pro. 15. 8. and psal. 66. 18. a mat. 20. 22 , 23. b isai 41. 17. c iam. 1. 6 , 7. mat. 21. 22. d iam. 5. 16. e luke 18. 12. & f iam. 4. 3. g iohn 5. 39. acts 17. 11. h psal. 1. 2. & 119. 97. i deut. 6. 7. mal. 3. 16. luke 24. 32. a col. 1. 18. eph. 1. 22 , 23. heb. 12. 23. b 1 cor. 11. 16. & 14. 23 , 33. & 7. 17. rev. 1. 4. & 2. 23. c eph. 1. 22 , 23. and 4. 4. d rom. 16. 4. 1 cor. 14. 33. & 7. 17. rev. 1. 4. and 2. 23 : f mat. 13. 25 , 27. iude. 4. act. 20. 29 , 30. rev. 2. 14 , 15 , 20. g isa. 56. 3. ioh. 10. 16. h eph. 1. 10. 2 pet. 1. 1. i deut. 29. 10 , 11 , 12 , 13. ezek 20. 37. ier. 50. 4 , 5. k eph. 1. 10. and 3. 15. col. 1. 20. l mat. 22. 14. m mat. 18. 17. isa. 2. 2 , 3. rev. 11. 19. n psal. 125. 1 ioh. 10. 28. and 1 ioh. 2. 19. o rev. 2. 5. rom. 11. 22. p act 1. 23. and 14. 23. and 6. 3 , 5. q eph. 4. 12 , 13. r acts 20. 28. 1 peter 5. 2 , 3. s 1 thes. 2. 4. rev. 13. 16 , 17. t eph. 1. 22. and 4. 15 , 16. and 5. 23. col. 1. 18. a isay 52. 1. and 60. 21. ioel 3. 17. rev. 21. 27. & 22. 15. eph. 1. 1. phil. 1. 1. b mat. 28. 20. and 6. 33. cant. 1. 7 , 8. isay 2. 2 , 3. zech. 8. 23. acts 2. 41 , 42 , and , 9. 26. c deut. 29. 10 , 11 , 12 , 13. ezek. 20. 37. ier. 50. 4 , 5. zech. . 11. 10 , 14. a iohn 18. 36. b matth. 28. 18. iam. 4. 12. c ezra 6. 8 , 11 , 12 ▪ isai 49. 23. d ezra 7. 27. e mat. 28. 20. acts 1. 15. & 21. 42. & 5. 12. & 6. 1 , 2. f rev. 17. 14. & 1. 5. g mat. 21. 25. h phil. 1. 1. 1 tim. 3. 1 , 8. i 1 tim 5. 17. acts 20. 17 , 28. 1 pet. 5. 1 , 2 , 3. k eph. 4. 11. l 1 tim. 5. 17. m 1 tim. 3. 8. n 1 tim. 5. 3 , 9. o rom. 12. 8. 1 cor. 12 8. p tit. 1. 9. q rom. 12 7. 1 cor. 12. 8. r 1 tim. 5. 17. s mat. 26. 5. & 27. 1. luke 22. 66. 1 cor. 12. 28. rom. 12. 8. 1 tim. 5. 17. t acts 4. 35. & 6. 2 , 3. 2 chron. 26. 20. & 2 chron. 31. 14. neh. 11. 16. u rom. 12. 8. neh. 13. 13. w ezek. 33. 2. acts 6. 3. x 1 tim. 3. 10. & 5. 22 , y 1 tim. 3. 2 , &c. titus 1. 5 , 6 , &c. 1 kings 12. 31. & 13. 33. a mat. 16. 19 & 18. 8. b iohn 20. 23. c 1 thess. 5 14. 2 thess. 3. 15. d mat. 18. 17. 1 cor. 15. 5. e gal. 6. 1. f 1 cor 4. 21. 2 cor. 13. 2. gal. 3. 1. g iude 22. 23. num. 12. 9 , 10 , 14. h mat. 18. 15 , &c. i lev. 19. 17. gal. 6. 1. mat. 18. 15 , 16. l mal. 18. 17. m 1 cor. 5. 5. 1 tim. 1. 20. n deut. 17. 13. 1 tim. 5. 20. 1 cor. 5. 6 , 7. o 2 sam. 12. 14. rom. 2. 24. p matth. 18. 17. q 1 cor. 5. 11. 2 thes. 3. 14. r r iohn 18. 36. a hos. 5. 11. col. 2. 22. b deut. 12. 8. c mat. 6. 10. & 26. 39 , 42. ephes. 6. 6 , 7. deut. 29. 29. micah 6. 8. d isai 58. 2. mat. 6. 1 , 2 , 5. & 23. 2 , 4 , 5. e heb. 11. 6. mat. 7. 18. iohn 15. 5. f exod. 28. 38. neb. 13. 22. isai 64. 6. g 1 gor. 13. 9 , 12. h gal. 5. 17. rom. 7. 14. 21 , 23. i mat. 5. 16. col. 1. 10. k mal. 3. 17. 2 cor. 8. 12. num. 23. 21. l rom. 6. 1 , 15. m rom. 7. 7. & 3 20. 1 iohn 3. 4. n ier. 31 33. ezek. 26. 37. o deut. 4. 13. & 10. 4. p 2 chro. 20. 20. psal. 27. 1. 3. and 37. 3. 5. q deut. 6 5. mat. 10. 37. r lam. 3. 23 , 26. ier. 17. 13. psal. 78. 7. s ier 13. 15. isay 58. 2. acts 16. 14. t psal. 50. 15. and 32. 6. and 65. 2. phil. 4. 6. u psal. 14. 1. titus 1. 16. w psa. 79. 6. ier. 10. 25. iohn 8. 19. x isay 7. 9. heb. 10. 38. ier. 17. 5 , 6. y gen. 4. 13. mat. 27. 3 , 4. 5. z acts 12. 23. dan. 4. 29. 30. and 5. 20. a rom. 1. 30. psal. 139. 21. b exod. 5. 2. psal. 10. 13. c ier. 17. 5. math. 10. 37. eph. 5. 5. phil. 3. 19. d deut. 33. 10. acts 15. 21. luke 4. 15 , 16. e 1 tim. 2. 1 , 2. acts. 3. 1. and 16. 13. luke 1. 10. f mat. 3. 1 , 6. and 26. 26. &c. , g acts 2. 42. and 9. 26. h acts 14. 23. and 6. 2 , 3. &c. i mat. 18. 15 &c. 1 cor. 5. 4 , 5. k mat. 28. 20 deut. 12. 32. zech. 14. 16 , 17 , 18 , 19. luke 14. 18 , 19 l exod. 20. 4. 5. num. 15. 39. 1 kings 12 , 31 , 32 , 33. and 13. 33. mat. 15. 9. col. 2. 20 , 21 , 22 , 23. m eccl. 5. 1. psal. 26. 2. exod. 19. 10 , 11 , 14 , 15 n heb. 12. 28 , 29. psal. 5. 7. o 1 chro. 29. 9. isay 58. 13 luke 2. 37. p rom. 1. 9. iohn 423. 24 ▪ 2 tim. 2. 22. q luke 13. 6. mat. 21. 34. r 1 cor. 24. 40. 1 cor. 11. 13. s 1 cor. 14. 29 , 30 , 31 , 33 , 40. t deut. 28. 58. u psa. 138. 2. isay 66. 2 , 5. w 1 chron 15 13. x acts 20. 9. y mat. 15. 8. ezek. 33 31 z 1 cor. 14. 33. a mal. 1. 1 , 6 , 7 , 12 , 14. b 1 king 12. 32 , 33. exod. 32. 5. c isay 58. 13. exod. 16. 29. 30. and 34. 21. neh. 13. 15 , 16 , 17. ier. 17. 21. 22. d lev. 19. 3. eph. 6. 1 , 2 , 3. e eph. 5. 22 , 24. f eph. 6. 5 , 6 , 7 , 8. g rom. 13. 1 , 2. tit. 3 1. h 1 tim. 5. 17. 1 thes. 5. 12 , 13. i lev. 19. 32. iob. 32. 4 , 6. k rom. 12. 10. 1 pet. 2. 17. l exod. 21. 12. numb. 35. 20. 21 , 30 , 31. m tit. 3. 2. n mat. 5. 22. eph. 4. 26 , 27. o tit. 3. 3. p prov. 27. 4. acts 7. 9. q mat. 5. 28. col. 3. 5. r deut. 23. 10. iude 8. s math. 5. 28. 2 pet 2. 14. gen. 39. 7. t 1 cor. 15. 33. eph. 4. 29. and 5. 4. u pro. 7. 10. 1 tim. 2. 9 , 10. eph. 1. 8. w pro. 7. 13. gen. 26. 8. x lev. 20. 13. rom. 1. 26 , 27. y lev. 20. 15 , 16. z gen. 38. 9. 1 cor. 6. 9. a lev. 20. 10. b 1 cor. 6. 13 , 18. c gal. 5. 19. eph. 4. 19. d gen. 3. 19. 2 thes. 3. 10 , 11. e heb. 13. 5. eph. 5. 3. 1 tim. 6. 9 , 10. f psal. 37. 21. 2 kings 6. 5. rom. 13. 8. g lev. 15. 14 , 17. amos 8. 5. h lev. 19. 13. pro. 22. 22. ezek. 18. 10. & 33 15. i eph. 4. 28. zech. 5. 3 , 4. k 1 thes. 4. 6. lev. 19 , 35 , 36. l heb. 13 5 phil. 4. 11. 1 tim. 6. 6. m 1 kings 21. 2 , 4. rom. 7 7. n rom 12. 15. iob. 31. 29. a heb. 9 27. psal. 89. 48. b heb. 11. 5. c 2. kings 2. 11 ▪ d 1 cor. 15. 51 , 52. e gen. 2. 17. & 3. 29. rom. 5. 12. 1 cor. 15. 21 , 22. f isai 57. 1. revel. 14. 13. g phil. 1. 23. isai 57. 2. iohn 14. 3. h isai 57. 2. rev. 14. 13. i eccl. 12. 7. phil. 1. 23. 2 cor. 5. 1 , 8. luke 23. 34. acts 7. 59. k gen. 3. 12. psal. 49. 14. l luke 16. 23. m acts 24. 15. n iohn 5. 28 , 29. o 1 cor. 15. 53. iob 19. 26 , 27. p phil. 2. 21. q 1 cor. 15. 42 , 43 , 44. r rom. 8. 11. 2 cor. 4. 14. 1 thes. 4. 14. s iohn 5. 28. t acts 17. 31. u mark 13 32 , 33. w 2 pet. 3. 10. 1 thes. 5 , 2 , 3. x acts 1. 11. luke 21. 27. rev. 1. 7. y luke 21. 27. tit. 2. 13 z 2 thes. 1. 8. 2 pet. 3. 10 , 12. a 1 thess. 4. 16. b 2 thess. 1. 7. iude 14. mat. 25. 31. c 2 thes. 1. 9. d mat. 25. 41. e rev. 21. 1. mark 9. 43 , 44. f luke 21. 28. eph. 4. 30. rom. 8. 23. g psal. 31. 19. h 1 cor. 2. 2. 2 cor. 12. 4. i 2 cor. 4. 17. mat. 25. 46. 1 pet. 1. 4. k 2 cor. 5. 1. iohn 14. 2 , 3. heb. 11. 10. l 1 thes 4. 17. m psal. 16. 11. the saints anchor-hold, in all storms and tempests preached in sundry sermons, and published for the support and comfort of gods people, in all times of tryal / by john davenport ... davenport, john, 1597-1670. 1661 approx. 271 kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from 120 1-bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : 2007-10 (eebo-tcp phase 1). a37208 wing d366 estc r7130 12272522 ocm 12272522 58315 this 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(eebo-tcp ; phase 1, no. a37208) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set 58315) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, 1641-1700 ; 140:1) the saints anchor-hold, in all storms and tempests preached in sundry sermons, and published for the support and comfort of gods people, in all times of tryal / by john davenport ... davenport, john, 1597-1670. [8], 231 p. printed by w.l. for geo. hurlock, and are to be sold at his shop ..., london : 1661. first ed. cf. nuc pre-1956. the preface "to the christian reader" signed: william hooke [and] joseph caryl. errata: p. [8]. reproduction of original in british library. created by converting tcp files to tei p5 using tcp2tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between 1473 and 1700 available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the 25,363 texts created during phase 1 of the project have been released into the public domain as of 1 january 2015. anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. 5% (or 5 pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of 100 instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level 4 of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p5, characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng sermons, american. congregational churches -sermons. 2006-01 tcp assigned for keying and markup 2006-01 aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images 2007-01 ali jakobson sampled and proofread 2007-01 ali jakobson text and markup reviewed and edited 2007-02 pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion the saints anchor-hold , in all storms and tempests . preached in sundry sermons . and published for the support and comfort of gods people , in all times of tryal . by john davenport , b. d. sometime minister of stephens coleman-street ; london ; and now pastor of the church of christ in new-haven , in new-england ▪ heb. 6. 18. lay hold upon the hope set before us . 19. which hope we have , as an anchor of the soul , both sure and steadfast , and which entreth into that within the vail . 20. whither the forerunner is for us entred , even jesus , made an high-priest for ever , after the order of melchisedech . london . printed by w. l. for geo. hurlock , and are to be sold at his shop at magnus church corner , in thames-street , 1661. the preface . to the christian reader . as the whole creation hath groaned ever since its original subjection unto vanity , earnestly expecting the manifestation of the sons of god : so more especially in these latter dayes the travelling pains thereof have encreased , as presages of its approaching deliverance . the vanity of it hath alwayes been great , but the experimental discoveries thereof never more than now . in this case it is the wisdome of a christian to secure to himself an interest in a portion as sufficient and permanent as jehovah that never changeth : a greater than which cannot be procured : this may , and a less will never satisfie : by this men live indeed , and in this is the life of a christian . that the lord's portion are his people , addeth nothing to him that is alsufficient to himself ; but , that the lord is their portion , is all in all to them . and this is the foundation of their hope and comfort . for here we are all embarqued in a vessel , sometimes caught with windes , sometimes covered with waves , and should soon be at our wits end , but for this sure and steadfast ancre which entreth into that within the vail . now that portion , and this hope grounded on it , are the churches , and a christians support in the midst of their lamentations : for the church at this time was driven from jerusalem , zion , temple , temple-ordinances , and native place of residence , greatly afflicted and tossed with tempests . this is only remaining , that she hath god for her portion , and hope for her anchor , never to be taken from her . and both these are the subject of the ensuing discourse , seasonable and suitable at all times , especially in these last moments of the last dayes , in which god is shaking heaven , earth , and sea , in order to the appearance of the desire of all nations . as touching the author of this treatise ( in whose heart the text was written by the finger of god , befor the discourse was penned by his own hand ) his piety , learning , gravity , experience , judgment , do not more commend him to all that know him , than this work of his may commend it self to them that read it : and the consideration of the two hindges on which the text turneth , faith , and hope , their near cognation , concomitance , usefulness , necessity , power , comfort , the first exciting the second , the one commensurate with the other , is enough to procure from thee the expence of a little time , to see and weigh what is here spoken of these most neces●ary helps to eternall happiness , which will never relinquish the believer , till they have resigned him up to the glorious vision and fruition of the objects believed in , and hoped for , there le●●ing the soul to the everlasting exercise of never failing love to god and the saints in glory . that this holy faith and hope in god , together with fervent love to god , and one to another , may dayly flourish , and be confirmed in the hearts and lives of all the saints on earth , till they enter upon their purchased possession ( which is the end of their faith and hope , to the praise of the glory of god ) in glory , is the hearty desire and prayer of thy fellow-brethren in this faith and hope , william hooke . joseph caryl . errata . page 19. lines 12 , and 13. read causally . p. 66. l. ult . r. him . p. 76. l. 26. r. resolved . p. 126. l. 13. r. quietnesse . p. 130. l. ult . r. grounds . p. 134. l. 24. r. there . p. 145. l. 18. r. brought . p. 151. l. 16. r. notice . p. 164. l. 25. r. lust . p. 204. l. 4. thereof . the saints anchor-hold . lam. 3. 24. the lord is my portion , saith my soul , therefore will i hope in him . this book is , according to the judgment of a godly learned * writer , an abridgment of all jeremies sermons , from the 13th . year of josias , unto the 4th . of joakim ; and that book which god commanded ieremy to write , and to cause baruch to read it publikely , upon the day of a fast , kept in the ninth moneth of the fifth year of iehojakim , which afterward iehudi read unto the king , sitting by a fire , in his winter house , who was so far from repenting , that , when he had read three or four leaves of it , he cut it with a penknife , and cast it into the fire , till all was consumed , and rejected the intercession of some of his princes , that he would not burn it , and he commanded to lay hold upon ieremy and baruch : but god hid them . whereupon the lord commanded ieremy to write the book again , with additions , which the same writer thinks , was this chapter , which consisteth of a threefold alphabet , in the hebrew . the prophet , having discharged his offices , in labouring to convince the jews of their sins , and to bring them to repentance , when he found not the successe he desired , he fals to lamenting and weeping , for their pride and obstinacy in sin , and teacheth them also how to lament their own misery in captivity ; and , because there was among them a basket of good figges , he teacheth them how to exercise faith and hope in the middest of their sorrows . among other passages , my text hath a tendency thereunto , which admits a double consideration : 1. as a part of a lamentation . 2. as an expression of a free spirit . accordingly i shall handle it , first , as a part of a lamentation . in verse 17 , 18. you may see their deep dejection and despondency ; i said my strength and my hope is perished from the lord. in vers . 19 , 20 , 21. you may see how , from the good fruit of their affliction , in humbling them , they gather hope . in vers . 22 , 23. they can see mercy in god towards them in their affliction . in my text , they are as men that find rest , after their dangers and tossings at sea , by casting anchor upon firme ground , in a safe harbour . the doctrinal note i collect from the words so considered , is this : doct. though it may be the case of true believers to be greatly dejected for a time , yet , even then , god doth support their spirits , and quicken their faith and hope in him . to clear this point , we must prove two things . 1. that it may be the case of true believers to be greatly dejected , for a time . this may be abundantly confirmed , both by the scriptures in the examples of iob , david , hezekiah , asaph , heman , and of christ himself , in the garden , and on the crosse , and by reasons of sundry sorts . r. 1. from god himself , sometimes with-holding the light of his countenance from true believers . then it is with them , as it is with the earth , which would be covered with darknesse , coldnesse , and deadnesse , if the light and influence of the sun were with-drawn from it . he is the god of all comfort , 2 cor. 1. 3. without him no true comfort can be had . sometimes he creates darknesse in the soul ; then it is filled with fear and amazement , and disquietment . and thus he doth , for holy and good ends . 1. to conforme believers to christ , as members to their head , rom. 8. 29. 2. to informe them , where their life is hid , viz. with christ , in god , col. 3. 3. and that christ , the last adam , is made a quickning spirit . 1 cor. 15. 45. that thereby he may quicken his people in god , who quickeneth the dead , when themselves had not only a sentence of death , in their bodies , as paul had , 2. cor. 1. 9. but also a sense of death in their soules , as heman had , psalme 88. 5. 3. to reforme them . partly , for correction of their unthankfulnesse for former comforts received from him , and for their not improveing them unto the ends for which he gave them . as a father , when he seeth his child doth but play with the candle which he afforded him to work by , takes it from him , and leave him in the dark . partly , for prevention of spiritual pride . 2 cor. 12. 7. of spiritual wantonnesse , and self confidence , psal . 30. 6 , 7. of carnal security , cant. 5. 6. and sundry other distempers . r. 2. from satan , that envious one , who , as in the beginning he sought to cast adam out of paradice , and to bereave him of his happinesse in communion with god , so now , finding believers in the kingdom of grace , which consists in righteousnesse , and peace , and joy in the holy spirit , when he cannot deprive them of their righteousnesse , will endeavour to disturbe their peace , and damp their joy , knowing , that when they performe duties uncomfortably , they do them weakly and but by halves . to this end : 1. he strives to hide from them those promises that might comfort them , when they have most need and use of them , and he sometimes prevailes herein . heb. 12. 5. 2. he suggests any word that may terrefie them , and presents to their memory and thoughts former sins , to amaze them . 3. he presents all thimgs unto them in false glasses ; the comforts of god , in a diminishing glasse , that god may seem to them lesse merciful , lesse gracious then he is , and the promises of god lesse free , lesse general then they are ; that all the consolations of god may seem small things to them , iob 15. 11. but he presents to them their sins in a multiplying glasse , that they may seem more , and greater then they are ; their sins , as impardonable ; their miseries , as intollerable , incurable ; their state , as desperate . 4. he useth his instruments to deal with them , as the philistims did with izhack , whose wells they stopped up , to make unprofitable to them those wells of salvation , from whence believers might draw waters of consolation . thus he used saul to banish david from the ordinances , and wicked men to insult and reproach him ; saying , vvhere is now thy god ? psal . 42. 3. so others , to twit them with their religion , when they are in distresse , saying , where are now your prayers , your hearing , reading , meditating , conferring , your conscientious and exact walking , your confidence in god ? you live more dejectedly then others , and are as fearful , as others , to die . thus they thrust , as it were , swords and daggers into their bones , to kill their comforts , as david there complained , verse 10. r. 3. from themselves : 1. sin presseth down their spirits , and hinders their cheerful progresse in a christian course , as weight doth runners in a race , heb. 12. 1. sorrow in the heart brings it down , especially , when guilt of sin is added to it . when the shoulder is out of joynt , it cannot bear its own pain , much lesse other burthens . so it is with the soul , a wounded spirit who can bear ? prov. 18. 14. 2. their spirit sometimes suffers from their bodies , by sympathy ; as in melancholy , which so darkens their imagination , that every thing seems dark to them , and so sowres their spirits , that every thing seems bitter to them , and so fills them with fears and suspitions , that every thing affrights them . 3. sometimes passion so prevaileth in them , that the higher faculties of the soul are subjected to the affections , which so bemist the understanding , that it cannot judge of things according to right reason : the conscience becomes suspensive , and wavering , and the memory , like a leaking vessel , le ts the grounds of comfort run out , and be forgotten : 4. sometimes spiritual gifts of grace are not exercised , but as the body growes listless when some dull humour seizeth upon it ; so in the soul , when faith is oppressed by unbelief , hope with fears , they do not put forth themselves to wrestle with god , and stir up themselves to take hold on him , but yield unto every temptation and discouragement . thus you see , that it may be the case of believers to be greatly dejected , for a time . the second thing to be cleared , is ; that though it be thus with true believers , for a time ; yet then god will do two things for them . 1. he will secretly support them , so that they may say as paul did , in 2 cor. 4. 8 , 9. vve are troubled on every side , yet not distressed ; we are perplexed , but not in despair , persecuted , but not forsaken ; cast down , but not destroyed . god dealt with the basket of good figges , in captivity , as christ did with peter , who first let him see his own weaknesse , in the water , then quickned him to cry unto him for help , and then stretched forth his hand and upheld him . mat. 14. 30 , 31. so the lord left the church so far that they complained my hope is perished from the lord , yet speedily raised them up in sight of his mercy to trust and hope in him . in like manner , he supports believers . r. 1. from gods unchangeablenesse in his love , and unweariednesse in doing them good . isa . 64. 5. and 40. 27 , 28 , 29 , 31. r. 2. from gods faithfulnesse in his covenant and promises . isa . 54. 8 , 9. psal . 37. 24. heb. 13. 5. 2. he will quicken their faith , to look unto himself for relief and comfort , in such times , 2 chron. 20. 12. psal . 12●1 . 1 ▪ 2. jon. 2. 2 , 4. for these reasons : r. 1. from the efficacy of the spirit of faith in them . as the needle in the compasse , being touched with the load-stone , though it may be moved and shaken this way and that , for a time , yet resteth not till it point to the north ; so the soul , being touched with the spirit of faith , though it may be forced , by temptation , from its bent , for a time , yet it hath no rest , till it stand god-ward . they may by temptations be as sheep driven from mountaine to mountaine , and forget their resting place . jer. 50. 6. but the spirit of , faith in them will cause them to return unto god , and to say , as david , psal . 116. 7. return unto thy rest , o my soul . believers are like noahs dove , that finding no rest for the soles of its feet , in the deluge , returned unto the arke . other men will like the raven , be soon satisfied with other things . r. 2. from the sutable operation of gods spirit in them unto gods end in afflicting them . gods end , in afflicting his children , is to drive them from all other things unto himself . for he corrects them for their good , heb. 12. 10. and its good for them to draw neer to god , psal . 73. 28. when afflictions work us thereunto , it is from the spirits sanctifying operation in them . for , 1. afflictions cannot work thus of themselves , but rather set men further off from god by discontentment with his providence , because it crosseth their carnal affections . and , 2. the soul of it self is apt to misgivings , in such cases , and to have hard thoughts of god. and 3. satan takes such occasions to breed and increase a distance and division between the soul and god. therefore it must be from the sanctifying operation of gods spirit in them and with them , when they work this good . rom. 8. 28. vse 1. for instruction . 1. here we may see the differenc between believers and others , in their dejected condition . 1. believers have the spirit of faith in them , whereby the soul , though it be over-borne by passion and temptation , for a time , yet it will worke it self into freedom again , as oil will be uppermost . the spirit , as a spring , will be cleansing it self more and more , from that mudde that is in it . but the heart of unbelievers is like a standing poole , where that which is cast into it rests . they are like the sea , where trouble and unquietnesse are in their proper place , isa . 57. 20. true rest and peace are for ever separated from sin in any soul , till the breach between god and the soul be made up by faith in christ . 2. believers have an interest in god , and he in them , through jesus christ . hence they are kept , as in a garrison , by his mighty power , through faith , unto salvation , 1 pet. 1. 5. through the intercession of christ , luke 22. 3. by the spirit of christ dwelling with them , and who shall be in them and abide with them for ever : so that they shall not be left comfortlesse . joh. 14. 16 , 17 , 18. hereupon paul triumphed , in rom. 8. 35 , &c. where he puts the question about persons , and answers about things , neither shall separate them from the love , which either christ bears to them , or they to christ . sin cannot separate them from christs love to them , because he hath more than conquered it , by his own power . tribulation cannot seperate believers from the love they bear to christ , because they shall more then conquer it , by the power of christ . it is not our hold of god and christ , but gods and christs hold of us that keeps us to him . the root bears us up , not we the root . rom. 11. 18. this asaph acknowledged unto god , when his feet were almost gone , his steps had well nigh slipt ; saying , neverthelesse i am continually with thee , thou hast holden me by my right hand , psal . 73. 2 , 23. but unbelievers are without christ , and without god in the world. eph. 2. 12. therefore when their creature-comforts fail them , they are as a ship tossed in the sea without a pylot , and without an anchor , which soon is bulged upon rocks , or falleth upon quick-sands , having no god to guide or support them . 2. hence we way learn how to carry our selves toward afflicted dejected christians . judge mercifully and wisely of poor weaklings . psal . 41. 1. men are apt , through want of wisdom and love , to mis-apprehend the causes of their dejectednesse . it is the lesse to be wondred at , that an heathen king mis-interpreted the dejected countenance of nehemiah , neh. 2. 2. seeing godly and wise eli , mis-censured hannah , as a distempered woman , when she was in bitternesse of spirit , 1 sam. 1. 14 , 15. and iobs friends mis-judged him for his afflictions , and men generally mis-construed christs sufferings , isa . 53. 4 , 5. they are not alwayes the best that are merriest , nor they the merriest in heart that are so in the face . nor are they alwayes of the weakest faith , or spirit , who are sometimes dejected , as we see ioshuah was ; in josh . 7. therefore be not rash , or harsh in censuring the dejected ; but rather worke with god for their support and comfort . two things are required hereunto ; knowledge , and goodness , rom. 15. 14. the first will make you able , the second willing to be helpful to such . labour to abound in both , 1. in knowledge both of the word , col. 3. 16 , and of the temper of the party , that you may speak to them suitably , and seasonably , isa . 56. 4. 2. in goodnesse , to pity them , to pray for them , and to set them in joynt . gal. 6. 1. 2. as for your selves , beware that you mis-judge not your own estate toward god , under such dejections , but know that , if ever you had any clear testimony of gods love to you , in jesus christ , the love of god toward you in christ is unchangeable , it is an everlasting love , jer. 31. 3. therefore hold the confidence and rejoycing of your hope firme unto the end , heb. 3. 6. and say , with the church , in mich. 7. 8. when i sit in darknesse , the lord shall be a light unto me . use 2. for admonition . take heed of placing your comfort too much in the creature , which being subject to change , and inconstancy , will be apt to breed disquietment . vexation inseparably followes vanity , when vanity is not apprehended to be where it is . in what degree any are lifted up in expectation of satisfying good from creatures , or overjoyed with the comforts of them , in that degree they are dejected in the dis-appointment of their hope , and distressed in the losse of creature-contentments . inordinacy of affections imbitters all such afflictions . hence arise those bitter complaints ; i had setled my contentment and hope in such a friend , or relation , but now they are gone , and with them all my joy is gone . woe is me , i am undone . therefore agur prayed wisely , in prov. 30. 8. remove far from me vanity and lies . i. e. vain and false apprehensions , whereby the affections are too strongly fixed upon things that are vain , and lying promising that contentment , which they cannot yield ; confidence in vanities makes them idols , and makes the heart vaine , like the things it relyes upon , psal . 115. 8. they shall find continual disquietment who walk in a vain shadow , psal . 39. 6. the best remedy against this is , by dwelling in the secret of the most high , to abide under the shadow of the almighty . psal . 91. 1 , 2. lam. 3. 24. the lord is my portion , &c : the words having been considerd , as they lie in the context , as a part of a lamentation ; we proceed to handle them as in my text they hold forth the expression of a free spirit , that is , of a spirit set at liberty from those sad perplexities , wherein it had been intangled , and held under deep dejection , and despondency . the text , thus considered , conteineth the anchor-hold of a tossed afflicted spirit : wherein three particulars are to be noted . 1. an assertion , the lord is my portion . 2. a proof of it , saith my soul . 3. a consectary , or inference from the premises ; therefore will i hope in him . i shall speak onely of the first , at this time : the lord is my portion . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , a part , or portion , is not to be taken here in the mathematical or common use of that word , as denoting a part of a whole , as it is frequently in scripture , when that part of estate , which parents give their children , is called their portion , gen. 31. 14. and that part of the spoil , which is the souldiers share , is called their portion , gen. 14. 24. and that dimensum of food , which is allowed unto any , is called their portion , deut. 18. 8. and the almes given to the poor is called their portion , eccl. 11. 2. for god is not parted , or divided , and distributed among his people , so as one hath one part of him , another another part of god ; but every one hath whole god wholly ; as the whole sun shines to every one , in which respect god is called a sun , psal . 84. 11. therefore god is said to be his peoples portion , not in a comparative , but in an absolute sense , god himself is theirs , a suitable and all sufficient goods to them . they have , not onely gifts and all good things from him , but himself also to be their god , in the covenant of grace , through jesus christ . he is their portion though not formally , yet in two senses : 1. objectivèly , as he is their ultimate end , and chief good . 2. caually , as he gives , together with himself , in christ , all good to them . the doctrinal note shall be this : doct. all true believers have such a blessed interest in god , as renders him their portion . it is the voice of faith , to say , the lord is my portion : others may say , the lord is an all-sufficient portion : but onely believers truly say , the lord is my portion . because onely faith interests a man in god , and appropriates him to him . this faith doth by a double act . 1. by a direct act , whereby true believers see in god those properties , which are required in a satisfying portion . they are three : 1. all-sufficiency . 2. perpetuity . 3. safety in placing his happinesse and full contentment there . all these the scripture declare to be in god alone . 1. sufficiency , gen. 17. 1. psal . 84. 11. 2. perpetuity . it tells us , that he is without shadow of change , jam. 1. 17. and that he will never fail , nor forsake his people , heb. 13. 5. 3. safety , in placing all our contentment and happinesse in him alone , psal 144. 15. 2. by a reflexed act of faith , a believer seeth his peculiar right and interest in god , as his portion . hence david said , the lord is the portion of mine inheritance , and of my cup , psal . 16. 5. and , thou art my portion o lord , ps . 119. 57. and asaph , vvhom have i in heaven but thee , and there is none upon earth that i desire , besides thee : and again , god is the strength of my heart , and my portion for ever , psal . 73. 25 , 26. to cleer this , two things must be added : 1. the grounds , whereupon the saints have claimed this interest in god , as their portion . 2. the use they have made of god , under this notion and relation . for the first , their title unto god , as their portion , is founded : 1. in gods voluntary and free donation of himself to them , in the covenant of grace , whereby both they become his portion . deut. 32. 9. the lords portion is his people , and he becomes their portion ; the portion of jacob is the former of all things : the lord of hosts is his name , jer. 10. 16. an act so done , by one , that is , suijuris , is a strong binding act , as peter argued in the case of ananias , acts 5. 4. it was free and deliberate , and therefore exceedingly dishonourable to break it . god stands much upon his honour in this , psal . 89. 34. my covenant will i not break . and psal . 111. 5. he will ever be mindful of his covenant . 2. this donation is confirmed sundry wayes : 1. by oath , psal . 89. 35. once have i sworn by my holinesse . again , in psal . 105. 9. he remembred his oath unto izhack , the covenant of grace , whereby god gives himself to be his peoples god and portion , micah saith , god hath sworn unto our fathers from the dayes of old , micah . 7. ult . which also zachary declares to be performed when he sent christ , luke 1. 73. 2. by seals : as circumcision is called a seal of the righteousnesse , which is by faith , rom. 4. 11. because it externally sealed the covenant , whereby god becomes the god of his people , gen. 17. 7 , 11. so of is , with both the sacraments of the new testament , by parity of reason . 3. by marriage unto christ , hos . 2. 19 , 20. agreements upon marriage , are firme , because upon rational consideration . a consideration inserted , adds weight to a deed and covenant . the consideration is , that we should be joyned unto the lord jesus , and then , all the promises of god , in him , are yea and amen to us , in him , 2 cor. 1. 20. and christs god and father is our god and portion , joh. 20. 17. 4. by a recovery , after judgment , if i may so speak , when , after they are fallen into gods displeasure , and returned to him , with repentance for and from their sins , and renewing their faith in christ , they have renewed their taking hold of the covenant and have pleaded it with god , and their plea hath been accepted . thus did moses for israel , after they had sinned , in the matter of the golden calf , exod. 32. 10 , 13. and the israelites for themselves isa . 63. 10 , 16 , 17 , 19. the second thing to be shewn is , what use the saints have made of their right and interest in god , as their portion : they have made use of him thus , both for themselves , and others . 1. for themselves : 1. to glory in god ; this god is our god. psal . 48. ult . 2. to delight themselves in the lord , in confidence of his goodnesse toward them , in the middest of temptatious , psal . 37. 4. whence followeth a rowling themselves upon him in all their wayes and difficulties , verse 5. and a patient waiting upon god in delays , with hope of a good issue , verse 7. 2. for others , whether they be friends or enemies , or of a middle sort . 1. friends , a poor believer can pleasure his richest friends out of this his portion , his god. this is a prophets and a righteous mans reward , mat. 10. 41. thus paul abundantly recompenced all his friends and well-willers out of his portion , phil. 4. 19. my god shall supply all your need , according to his riches in glory by iesus christ. 2. enemies : in jesus christ all believers have sufficient help from god against all sorts of enemies , and can , in an holy manner challenge them to do their worst , and triumph over them before the battail , upon this assurance , my god will help me ; therefore i shall not be confounded , isa . 50. 7 , 8 , 9. other men are strong in men , in armes , in shipping , in fortifications , &c. a believer hath all in god , he is strong in the lord , and in the power of his might , eph. 6. 10. 3. a middle sort ; laban fared the better for iacob , potiphar , pharaoh , and all egypt , for ioseph : the sodomites for lot : the mariners , and all that were in the ship , for paul , acts 27 , 24 ▪ the world for the saints , for the holy seed are 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the propps that shoar up the places where they live , that the wrath of god doth not over-flow , and over-whelm them . isa . 6. 13. vse 1. for instruction : hence learn to behold and admire the excellency , and happinesse of every true believer in his portion . the all-sufficient god is their portion . his greatnesse , power , mercy , grace , goodnesse , faithfulnesse , forgivenesse , justice , all are for them ; and , that they may possesse him , as their portion , he gives them his son , to be theirs , through faith , and with him all things , 1 cor. 3 , 21 , 22 , 23. thus , the brother of low degree is exalted , iam. 1. 9. he hath the best portion that god can give , and upon the best assurance that god can make , heb. 6. 18. hence david calleth such the excellent ones , ps . 16. 3. he had conversed with rich men , great men , wise men , after the flesh ; yet he called none of them , the excellent ones . he well knew that the righteous is more excellent than his neighbour , prov. 12. 26. vse 2. for exhortation : 1 generally , to all ; to make out for this portion . to this end , wait upon god in his ordinances with thirsting souls : it will not be in vain , isa . 5. 5. 1 , 2 , 3. prov. 8. 34 , 35. for thereby , either it shall be cleered unto you that the lord is your portion , or the lord will become your portion . and he is so unto them , in whom faith is wrought in christ by the spirit , in the ministry of the gospel . they that can say to christ , with thomas , my lord and my god , ioh. 20. 28. may also say to god , with david , in ps . 142. 5. o lord , thou art my refuge and my portion in the land of the living . this is the priviledge of those , who answer gods call , by joyning to him in covenant . so saith the lord , i entred into covenant with thee , and thou becamest mine , ezek. 16. 8. and again , in hos . 2. 23. i will say unto them which were not my people , thou art my people , and they shall say , thou art my god. to perswade you hereunto : consider , 1. every man desires to have best , for his portion in other things , in houses , lands , food , apparel cattle . but this portion is simply absolutely the best . this christ teacheth , in luke 16. 12. this he calls our own , those , another mans . vvhen a man views houses , or surveys land , or tells money for another man , his heart is not so affected with them , as when he views , surveys , tells for himself . propriety draws and engages the heart to that wherein a man hath a property , though it be but mean and worthlesse , and carrieth the heart after it ; much more , when propriety and a most worthy property meet together ; as david found this to be , psal . 4. 6 , 7. 2. the misery of those that have not this portion eph. 2. 12. little , or rather , no cause have such to blesse themselves in their worldly portions and possessions , as worldly men are apt to do , psal . 49. 18. for they have their portion onely in this life , which is but a vapour : but believers are happy in their portion , in god , both in , and after this life : for they shall behold his face in righteousnesse , and shall be satisfied when they awake with his likenesse , psal . 17 , 14 , 15. attend therefore , in time , to the counsel of christ , in rev. 3. 17 , 18. 2. specially , to believers ; to beha●e themselves as it becomes those , who have god for their portion . that you may so do , 1. professedly avouch god to be your portion , deut. 26. 17. this is done two wayes , 1. when you set your love upon him , with such an esteem of him , as is meet for such a portion . where a mans treasure is , there will his heart be also , matth. 6. 21. let god be your treasure , when you look upon all things in the world , single out those that you account most amiable , desirable ; then ascend , in your thoughts to heaven , and contemplate all the excellencies there , the rivers of pleasure , the blessed fellowship of saints in glory ; each of them as dear to another , as if all relations of husbands , and wives , of parents , and children , and friends , were in every one of them ; yet let god and christ be above them all . so did asaph , psal . 73. 25. so will every one that knows gods name aright . psal . 91. 14. because he hath set his love upon me , therefore will i deliver him : i will set him on high , because he hath known my name . 2. when you are content to part with all , to enjoy him alone . a maid will say of a man whom she loves , i will have him , though i beg my bread with him . a man will lay out his estate , in suit , for his own . 3. when you live in the world with affections free from worldly ingagements , as pilgrims , whose hearts are at home , when their feet are travailing abroad . 2. possesse and use , and injoy god , as your portion . thus , 1. live upon god , as the israelites in canaan did upon their lots and inheritances : live upon gods favour , in christ , psal . 30. 5. and upon his promises , isa . 38. 16. live by the faith of the son of god , gal. 2. 20. fetching all your comfort thence . 2. walk with god , gen. 5. 24. and work in god , joh. 3. 21. marry in the lord , live unto the lord , exalting his ends , and rules , in all things . 3. cast all your care upon him , 1 pet. 5. 7. you may try men in smaller things , before you trust them with greater ; especially , if they be strangers . but it is dishonourable to god , if you do not , at the first , trust him with all that you are , and have . when mens hearts sink in every danger , it is from a defect , either of faith , or in faith . see how christ reproved this in peter , mat. 14. 30 , 31. davids first recourse was to god , and what ever means he used , he looked up to him , psal . 5. 3. 4. live contentedly , when you injoy god in his ordinances , without covetousnesse , heb. 13. 5. and with out discontentednesse because of outward afflictions , or wants . david as he was the sweet singer of israel , so he expressed a sweet frame of spirit , in 2 sam. 23. 5. he hath made with me an everlasting covenant , ordered in all things and sure : this is all my salvation , and all my desire , &c. 5. make up all your happinesse in god. a worldly man , when he views his houses , lands , cattle , barns filled with corn , &c. his heart is cheared , like that rich fool in luke 12. 19. but see the vanity of that joy , in the answer of god to him , ver . 20. but a true believer hath true cause of rejoycing in his portion , having such an estate in god , and christ , and the covenant , that he shall want nothing , psal . 23. 1. his downlyings and up-risings , himself and his children are well provided ; for what though his estate lyeth not in lands , or monies , or plenty of corn and cattle ? he hath that which is better , for his portion . a believer is a citizen of heaven ; there is his inheritance ; things on earth are added to him , onely pro viatico , while he is travailing thitherward . lam. 3. 24. saith my soul. having spoken of the assertion , the lord is my portion ; we are now , with christs assistance , to speak to the proof of it , saith my soul. the church proveth that the lord is their portion , by their souls saying it . where note , 1. the principle of this speech , their soul , which sheweth that there is a mental as well as a vocal speaking : the fool saith in his heart , there is no god , psal . 14. 1. when his tongue speaketh and professeth the contrary , tit. 1. 16. 2. that , by an act of the soul reflexed upon it self , they knew what their soul said . so david , in psal . 16. 2. o my soul , thou hast said unto jehovah , thou art my lord. 3. that the use they make hereof is , to prove two things : 1. that the lord is their portion . 2. that they know that the lord is their portion . 1. to prove that the lord is their portion , they argue thus : what the soul saith is a mans portion , that is his portion . but my soul saith , the lord is my portion . therefore the lord is my portion . 2. to prove that they know that the lord is their portion , they argue thus . what a man knoweth that his soul saith is his portion , that he knoweth to be his portion . but i know that my soul saith , the lord is my portion ; therefore i know that the lord is my portion . in like manner , david putting up this pettion , preserve me , o god , presseth it by this motive , for in thee do i trust , and he proveth that he trusteth in god , by an apostrophe , a turning of his speech , to his soul , o my soul , thou hast said unto the lord , thou art my god. and this he confirmeth from the testimony of his own soul and conscience , psal . 16. 1 , 2. and thence inferred ; the lord is the portion of mine inheritance , and of my cup , ver . 5. q. d. the lord is my land and revenue , and food , he supplies all , and is himself above all , better then all , unto me . d. when a believer knoweth that his soul saith , the lord is his portion , he hath from thence a clear proof that the lord is his portion . for the proving of this point , two things must be declared . 1. that a true believer may know that his soul saith , the lord is his portion . david knew it , when he said , o god! my soul trusteth in thee , psal . 17. 1. he knew that he trusted in god , as one trusteth in his treasure ; and in psal . 84. 2. my heart and my flesh cryeth out for the living god. as , when an house is on fire , and all is in danger to be lost , the owner crieth out , oh , let me have my casket of jewels , my box of evidences , they are my treasure , the principal of my estate , i am not undone , unlesse i lose them . and then , as his desire is ardent , so his expectation is earnest for them , looking when they shall be delivered to him . saith he , have you them ? have you found them ? as the church said to the daughters of jerusalem , concerning her beloved , cant. 5. 8. and 3. 3. and , as any hope appeareth , he is the more incouraged to wait , yet still watching and observing if he can get the sight of them . so david , my soul waiteth for the lord , more then they that watch for the morning : i say , more than they that watch for the morning , psal . 130. 6. and , as david knew thus that the lord was his portion ; so may other believers , as paul argues , in a like case , from davids example , 2 cor. 4. 13. from parity of reason , seeing we have the same helps as he had . r. 1. from the proper excellency , or excellent property of the reasonable soul , that it can reflect , and discern its own internal acts ; much more the renewed soul . 1 ioh. 2. 3. r. 2. from the office and power of conscience , to testifie what is within a man. this the apostle notes in natural men , rom. 2. 15. and in believers , 1 ioh. 3. 20 ▪ 21. r. 3. from the spirit of god joyning with the renewed spirits of believers , rom. 8. 16. and 9. 1 , 2. my conscience bearing me witnesse in the holy ghost . and the holy spirit brings into the soul a self-evidencing light , whereby he doth manifest unto the renewed soul , that it is himself , and no delusion , who testifieth to us our interest in god. hereby we know that we dwell in him , and he in us , because he hath given us of his spirit , 1 ioh. 4. 13. for the spirit is given for this end , that we might know the things that are freely given to us of god , 1 cor. 2. 12. 2. that a believer , from his souls saying , the lord is his portion , hath a good proof that the lord is his portion . so the church , in psal . 33. 20. from knowledge that their soul waiteth for the lord , proves , that he is their help and their shield , and from thence they infer , in ver . 21. our heart shall rejoyce in him , because we have trusted in his holy name : so david proved his interest in god , by his souls thirsting for him . psal , 63. 1. and , by his souls following hard after him , ver . 8. the same holds in other believers also . r. 1. because the souls saying , the lord is my portion , is the answering of the soul unto god , calling his elect effectually , by the ministry of the gospel , out of the world and sin and self , unto himself , in jesus christ . there is an outward calling , by the ministry of man onely , of which the prophet speaks , in hos . 11. 7. though they called them to the most high , yet none would exalt him . this is ineffectual , unto spiritual conversion , of it self , without the quickening efficacies of the spirit . but when that is added , and worketh with the ministry of man ( which of it self onely soundeth in the ear ) then god speaketh to the heart , hos . 2. 14. thereby the father draweth the elect unto his son , ioh. 6. 44 , 45. then they hear the voice of the son of god , which they that hear , shall live , ioh. 5. 25. the soul being thus quickned , answers the call of god with the obedience of faith , as david found , in psal . 27. 8. thou saidst , seek ye my face ; my heart answered , thy face iehovah , i do seek . this answer is the voice of the whole soul unto god. the understanding , being illightned and fully convinced , closeth with god , in christ , as the first truth , and the will chooseth him as the chiefest good ; the affections rest satisfied with him alone , and the whole soul placeth all its happinesse in its injoyment of him , and conformity to him . hope waits for him , desire longeth after him , and joy delighteth in him above all things . the lord calleth the whole soul to come unto him , that it may find true rest , in voluntarily subjecting it self under his yoke . mat. 11. 28 , 29. and the whole soul , in all its faculties and affections , answereth , as the church did , in ier. 3. 22. lo we come unto thee ; for thou art the lord our god : with renouncing all other refuges , as they did , in ver . 23. according to that promise , in hos . 2. 23. i will say , thou art my people , and they shall say , thou art my god. r. 2. because the souls saying , the lord is my portion , argues unseigned love of god , in christ . for all the affections depend on love . what a man loveth , as his portion , he desireth to possesse and injoy ; and any impediment thereof stirs up his anger proportionately , to his esteem and love of it . as we see with what eagernesse and earnestnesse , men endeavour to remove any thing that hinders their credits , or estates , &c. now , if any love god above the world , above themselves , they will be more jealous of gods honour then their own , and against that which tends to gods dishonour , more then against what crosseth their own worldly honour . hence will arise hatred against sin , because god hates it , both in our selves , psal . 97. 10. and in others , rev. 2. 6. anger is against particulars , but hatred is general . anger seeks revenge with moderation , in proportion to the wrong done us , but hatred seeks the destruction of its object . anger is placable , but hatred is implacable . and according to the degree of mens love to any thing , will be their fear of being deprived of it , and separated from it , and of all causes and signes of alienation from it . r. 3. because the souls saying , the lord is my portion , importeth the highest actings of the soul upon god. when iob said , the things that my soul refused to touch , job 6. 7. he shewed the greatest detestation of them ; and when he said , my soul chuseth death rather than life , iob 7. 15 , he shewed a most vehement desire . and when the lord said , i will plant them in this land assuredly , with my whole heart , and with my whole soul . ier. 32. 41. he shewed the firmnesse of his purpose . so , when the soul saith , the lord is my portion , it argues the most full and firm cleaving of a believer unto god , with purpose of heart , as barnabas exhorted them to do , in acts 11. 23. else men do not return to him , nor cleave to him , as to the most high , hos . 7. 16. unlesse they turn to him with all their heart , joel 2. 12. and love him with all their heart , deut. 30. 6. for , it is by such a love that faith workes , which is a believing with all the heart , acts 8. 37. and produceth obedience from the heart , rom. 6. 17. which is done when all the faculties and affections of the soul do open themselves , and stand open , to give entertainment unto god , in christ , as the king of glory , psal . 24. 7. when the keyes of the whole house , and every room in it are delivered up for the use and service of a king , he is entertained like a king. inferiour guests are content , one with one room , another with another , and sometimes two have but one room , yea , one bed for them both . but the king must have all . so it is in this case , when the god of glory appeared unto abraham , and called him , abraham obeyed him , without reservation , acts 7. 2 , 3. so must we , yea , so will all , whose soules say , the lord is their portion . use 1. for instruction , in four particulars . 1. hence learn how a man may know when afflictions are sanctified and blessed unto him , i. e. when the eye of the soul is , by them , turned , 1. upward , to look unto god , for an interest in him , as their portion . 2. inward , to reflect upon the inward actings of the soul , that they may know their interest in god , as their portion . indeed afflictions of themselves work the contrary , to estrange us from god , and from our selves , and satan labours to foment and increase a separation of the soul from god , and a division , and distraction of the soul within it self . therefore it is by an over-ruling power and sanctifying efficacy of gods spirit , when they cause us to return unto the lord , hos . 6. 1. and to our selves , luke 15. 17 , 18. it is a sure rule of discerning ones self to be in the state of grace , when he finds that every condition brings him neerer to god , and every sanctifying gift of grace is quickned to its proper function , to turn the faculty and affection of the soul , in which it is planted , unto god , rom. 8. 28 , 29. god is a pure act , alwayes acting , and every one , the neerer he comes to god , the more gracious frame of spirit he hath , and the more spiritual affections , and suitable actings of them , sweetly issuing from thence . 2. learn hence a profitable use of spiritual soliloquies , which are a mans speaking within himself , to himself , about spiritual things . david prescribes communing with a mans own heart , to further his repentance , psal . 4. 4. and himself made use of it , to quicken his faith , psal . 42. 5. so the church in my text , in times of affliction , being driven out of their creature-comforts , and expectations , they communed , and parlied with their own souls , to cleer unto themselves their interest in god , as their portion , and to excite their faith and hope in him unto excercise . 3. learn hence , not to rest in outward profession , in words , that the lord is your portion . many hypocrites say so , whose hearts cleave to some thing else , as their portion ; some to their sinful wills , and wayes . they draw neer unto god with their lips , but their hearts are removed far from him . such were those in hos . 8. 23. israel will cry unto me , my god , we know thee , when , israel hath cast off the thing that is good ; even god himself , in whom and from whom is all good , and the good word of god , and the rules thereof ; though they thus departed from him , yet , in their distresse , they were ready to claim an interest in him . others , to their worldly objects . they lay up treasures for themselves on the earth , and there their hearts are , mat. 6. 19 , 21. their belly is their god , and portion , that mind earthly things , phil. 3. 19. these steal away their hearts from god , even while they are hearing the word , ezek. 33. 31. all , to one idol , or other , like those of whom the prophet speaks , in isa . 57. 6. among the smooth stones of streams is thy portion ; they , they are thy lot . a woful portion have all such , for at present , their portion is cursed in the earth , job . 24. 18. and , for the future , god will rain upon them , snares , fire , and brimstone , and an horrible tempest ; this shall be the portion of their cup , psal . 11. 6. again , 2. rest not in some occasional speeches of some one affection alone . balaam had a transient desire that his latter end might be like theirs , who had the lord for their portion , numb . 23. 10. this is but the saying of one assertion , for a short time . nothing is to be accounted as said by the soul , unlesse all the faculties and affections of the soul consent in it , acting suitably , psal . 103. 1. 4. learn hence , to make out for an interest in god , as your portion . this is to be had onely by and in jesus christ , joh. 20. 17. for it pleased the father , that in christ , god incarnate , all fulnesse should dwell , col. 1. 19. and , that out of his fulnesse we all should receive , and grace for grace , joh. 1. 16. so that christ is the immediate fountain of all spiritual blessings unto the elect , eph. 1. 3. gods next end , in this dispensation , is , that all men should honour the son , as they honour the father , joh. 5. 23. which they do , when they come to the father by the son , joh. 14. 6. and therefore come to the son first , seeking to have an interest in him , and then in the father , by union and communion with him , through faith in the son of god , 1 joh. 1. 3. let those who are out of christ , see their misery , in that state , and the remedy thereof in christ , and accordingly value him above all things , rev. 3. 17 , 18. mat. 13. 45. let those that have him , seek more full communion with him , prizing that above all things , phil. 3. 8 , 9. and answerably prize the word , as david , who said unto god , the law of thy mouth is better unto me then thousands of gold and silver , psal . 119. 72. see that the word be mixed with faith in your hearts , to receive christ thereby , as god offereth him unto you in his word , joh. 1. 12. shew it to be so , really , and not in outward profession onely , by setting your affections on things above , where christ sitteth at the right hand of god , col. 3. 1 , 2. and by your driving an heavenly trade , in this world , phil. 3. 20. use 2. for comfort to all who can thussay , the lord is their portion i. e. to all true believers , who know that their soul saith the lord is their portion ; be exhorted to rejoyce in your portion , rejoyce in the lord alwayes , and again , i say , rejoyce , phil. 4. 4. have you plenty of outward things ? rejoyce not in them , but in the lord , ier. 9. 23 , 24. in him alone you have fully enough . there is a vast difference between iacobs portion and esau's , though the translation holdeth forth each of them , as saying , i have enough , yet the original varieth their expressions , esau said , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , i have much , gen. 33. 9. but jacob said 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , i have all , ver . 11. esau had much in worldly things , but not enough : jacob had enough in god , who was his all-sufficient portion . are you in any want ? habent omnia qui habent habentem omnia . they cannot want any thing ; who have him to be their portion , who hath all things . in wants of outward things , say with david , psal . 23. 1. the lord is my shepherd , i shall want nothing ; and with the church , hab. 3. 17 , 18. although the fig-tree shall not blossome , nor fruits be in the vine , and the fields yield no meat , the flocks shall be cut off from the fold , and no herds in the stalls , yet i will rejoyce in the lord , i will joy in the god of my salvation . in spiritual wants , the god of all grace , wisdom , power , and goodnesse , is your god and portion ; you have all in him , and shall have all that is good for you from him , psal . 84. 11. are you in fear of dangers ? say , as david , in psal . 27. 1. the lord is my light and my salvation , whom shall i fear , &c. psal . 27. 1 , 2 , 3. again , god is our refuge and strength , a very present help in trouble ; therefore will not we fear , though the earth be moved , &c. psal . 46. 1 , 2 , 3 , 4. lastly , are you in as great distresse as david was , in 1 sam. 30. 3 , 4 , 5 , 6 ? yet even then take the course that he took . what was that ? david comforted himself in the lord his god. so do you , rejoyce in this your portion . for it is , 1. all-sufficient . 2. everlasting . lam. 3. 24. therefore will i hope in him , we have already spoken of two parts of the text ; the assertion , the lord is my portion , and the proof of it ; saith my soul . vve now proceed to the third , the inference , which the church draws from the premises ; therefore will i hope in him . in which words three particulars are to be noted . 1. the reason , whereupon their hope was grounded [ therefore . ] 2. the resolution of their will to act according to that reason [ i will. ] 3. the act it self resolved upon , together with the proper object of it [ hope in him . ] for the first , the reason , whereupon their hope was grounded . this illative particle , therefore , notes the result of a discourse in the minds of believers , whereby they compare one thing with another , and gather one thing from another ; and thence conclude to act suitably to the truest and best reason . faith is an understanding grace , and knowes what use to make of the souls interest in god. when a man hath god for his portion , and knows it , thence faith inferreth it is my duty , and it is for my good to hope in him : therefore i will hope in him . reason of it self , in this corrupt state of fallen man , cannot teach men to hope in god. but when god hath in the word of promise given himself to us to be our portion , and faith hath closed with him , as our portion ; and the word telleth us it is our duty , and for our good to hope in him , then faith seeth good reason that we should hope in him . faith useth reason , though not as the ground , yet as a sanctified instrument , to find out gods grounds , that it may rely upon him , he believes best , who best knows , why he believes , and he best hopes in god , who can give the best reasons for his hoping in him . the affections , though they have not reason grafted in them , yet they are thus farre reasonable , that , in all that are godly-wise , they are raised up , and laid down , guided , and actuated , by sanctified reason , which is the highest and best reason . doct. they that hope in god a right , have their hope in him raised , and strengthened by good and strong reasons . reasons fetched from god , and from the souls knowing its interest in him , as his portion ▪ are good and strong reasons , for our hoping in him ; and such are the reasons which the church , in my text , gives of their hoping in god. they considered gods all-sufficiency , in himself , and to every one that hath him for his portion , and what interest themselves had in him , through faith in christ , and thereupon conclude ; therefore will i hope in him . so may all believers . r. 1. from the inseparable connection of hope with faith : faith believes in christ , and in god through christ , upon gods authority in his word , and what faith believes , hope expects . the reasons for a believers hoping in god , are as good and strong , as for his believing in him . for , as , naturally , beams come from the sun , and branches from the root ; so , by spiritual discourse , one truth issueth from another ; and , as the sun and its beams , the roots and branches , are all of one nature ; so the grounds of comfortable truths , and reasons taken from those grounds , are both of the same divine authority in themselves . though in us , discourse is apt to be so troubled , in times of temptation , that we cannot see how one truth ariseth upon another ; yet so far as faith sees god to be our portion ▪ the soul sees good and strong reason for our hoping in him for all good , that may suit all our needs , in the best season . r. 2. from the convincing light , which the spirit of god bringeth into the soul , when he worketh faith and hope in it . it is the office and work of the spirit , to convince , and , by convincing , to comfort , joh. 16. 7 , 8. conviction is a clear and infallible demonstration , and comfort is a demonstration , with application unto us , of better and stronger reasons to raise us up , then those are which tend to cast down our souls . when the spirit convinceth , he bringeth such a full and powerful light into the soul , as silenceth all disputes and cavils , and causeth the soul to yeeld , as overcome by the evidence and authority of the light and truth brought into it . light hath a convincing property and force in it . when we see the light of the sun , we know it is day , and will not believe those that shall deny it , though they were ten thousands , because the convinction hereof is undeniable , it is an unreasonable thing to deny it . so the spirit of god brings an undeniable light into the soul , which discovers the vanity of those windings , and turnings , whereof mens deceitful hearts are so full , that there can be no thorough conviction , and effectual to salvation , without the efficacy of the holy spirit . a common conviction there may be , by the light of nature , or of a natural conscience , or of some common transient work of the holy spirit , but that is but weak : for either it discovers but little , as a little spark shews little light , not enough to lighten the room , by overcomming the darknesse , and turning it into light ; or the light , which it shews , it shews but weakly , like a flash of lightning , or a blaze in straw , that is soon out again . but saving convinction is a greater and stronger light , like the light of the sun , which is a full and powerful light . this is onely from the sanctifying spirit of god. this light shewes the evil of sin , and the good of the contrary , in their spiritual nature , and compasse , and drawes the will answerably , from the one to the other , by converting grace , acts 26. 18. this light is abiding in the renewed soul . thus the church , in my text , was convinced and comforted , in their great distresse , by the spirit and word of god , so as they could hold forth good and strong reasons , whereupon their hope was strengthened , and their hearts were comforted in sad houres . vse 1. for instruction , two-fold : 1. learn hence to examine and trie the reasons , whereby you are moved to act ; whether they they be good , or not good , reason is a beam of gods light . what comes from god , carrieth the soul to god ; therefore that which drawes the soul from god cannot be a good reason , it is not right reason , but falsely called reason , it is not from faith , but from unbelief , not good but evil , heb. 3. 12. hence , no good reason can be given for any s●n● . what ever reasons are pretended for it , they are not according to gods logick , but the devils sophistrie , jam. 1. 22. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 they deceive themselves with false syllogismes . you may find in jam. 3. 15. three topicks , from whence all such arguings are fetcht , the world , the flesh , and the devil , the three great enemies of gods glory , and of christs kingdom in us ; yet they will pretend their good intention for gods honour , when they seek no themselves worldly profits by disobeying gods commandement . so did saul ; but samuel refuted all his false pleas , 1. sam. 15. 21 , 22 , 23. see how the scripture reproves such as encourage themselves to do evil , that good may come thereon , rom. 3. 7 , 8. job sharply took up his friends for this , in job . 13. 7. will you speak wickedly for god , and talk deceitfully for him ? yet , thus the devill deceive●● his active instruments against christ , the time commeth ( saith christ , in joh. 16. 2. ) that whosoever killeth you , will think be doth god : service . there are that argue from worldly advantages to encourage men to sin , prov. 1. 13. but christ shews the pernicious delusion of such reasonings , in mat. 16. 26. others from the pleasure of carnal liberty , but peter shews the falsenesse of that plea , in 2 pet. 2. 19. others from worldly preferment of wicked men , mal. 3. 15. which the prophet confuteth in verse 18. some from gods patience , which god himself answereth , in psal , 50. 21 , 22. such as these are the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the reasonings of natural men , rom. 1. 21. which should warn all men to deny their carnal wisdom , which is enmity against god , rom. 8. 7. 2. learn hence to examine and try the goodnesse and strength of the reasons , whereupon it is grounded , remembring that rule , in , 1 pet. 3. 15. be ready alwayes to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you . you say , you hope in god , if you have no reason for it ; it s a foolish unreasonable hope . if you have but slight reasons ; it s a vain hope . and such is hope of the most : one grounds his hope of salvation upon his creation ; saying , i am gods creature , and he hath not made me to damne me : therefore , i hope he will save me . see the delusion of this plea , 1. are not the devils gods creatures ? yet they are damned . 2. though gods end in making you , was not to damne you , yet your impenitency in sin , and unbelief will damne you . 3. see the lords own refutation of this plea , in isa . 27. 11. another grounds his hope of blessednesse upon gods blessing him , as he calls it , with worldly successe , and prosperity . but christ shews the vanity of this hope in that rich man in hell , luke 16. 25. and by telling us that it is that they shall be destroyed for ever , psal . 92. 7. gods end in prospering such in the world , is like hesters end in feasting haman . another grounds his hope that he shall have heaven hereafter , because he hath had his hell , through afflictions , in this life . but such consider not what the word saith concerning sodom and gomorrah , jude 7. suffering the vengeance of eternal fire . what misery wicked impenitent sinners suffer here , is but a beginning and pledge to them of hell hereafter . another grounds his hope upon his christian priviledges and performances . but this is plentifully refuted in scripture , by johns speech to the pharisees , mat. 3. 9. and pauls to the romans , rom. 2. 28. and concerning himself , phil. 3. 7. others ground their hope upon gods mercy , though they continue in their sins . this indeed is a good reason for hope , in those that confesse and forsake their sin , prov. 28. 13. but for those that abuse this mercy to the hardning of themselves in sin by it , see how the lord thunders against such , in deut. 29. 19 , 20. others ground their hope upon their own self-flattering and self-deceiving thoughts of themselves . such may see their own folly and madnesse , by what the scripture saith , in prov. 28. 26. and gal. 6. 3. let all such , and the like , renounce their ungrounded hope , which , like that broken reed of aegypt , isa . 36. 6. will at once both fail them , and ruin them . till you have an interest in god and christ , as your portion , you are without hope , eph. 2. 12. therefore the first work of the spirit , in the soul , by the gospel , and one great end of the ministry thereof , is , to make way for true faith and hope , by casting down those 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , reasonings , and bringing into captivity every thought , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , every sophistical reasoning , to the obedience of christ . 2 cor. 10. 5. vse 2. for exhortation to believers , being under temptations and afflictions , whether outward or inward , to improve the reasons , which faith supplieth , for the quickening and strengthening of their hope in god. for , in such times , faith is put to it to use reasons . indeed the soul needeth not that help so much , when it is in a clear and quiet state , for upon its close and sweet communion with god , in christ , and from some likenesse between the renewed soul and god , it presently , and without praevious discourse , runneth to god , as by a supernatural instinct ; as , by natural instinct , the child runneth to his natural parents in danger , and distresse , with confidence . but , in dark times of great afflictions , and temptations , faith is put to use arguments , and reasons to quicken and strengthen hope . accordingly , study the grounds of hope , and improve them for your help . 1. such as may be supplied from the inward store laid up in the soul , as the church did in my text. 2. such as are , or may be , suggested by others : harken , and yield to them , and close with them . for , thus you will shew that you have a frame of spirit suitable to any holy and comfortable truth , that shall be presented and applied to it . there is a principle in every renewed spirit , that closeth with whatever commeth from gods spirit , that readily claimes acquaintance and kindred with it , as comming from the same blessed spring , the holy spirit . when asaph found the contrary in himself , that his soul refused comfort , and he remembred god and was troubled , psal . 77. 23. he saw , and said , this is mine infirmity , ver . 10. he saw that it arose from a sicknesse , a spiritual disease , and distemper in his soul . while passion and temptation disturbe the soul , they hinder the exercise of spiritual reason : as we see in david , who said , in his haste , all men are liars , psal . 116. 10 , 11. this he saw afterward , when his spiritual reason had recovered it self , which before by his distemper was hindred in its working ; then he admired god for his benefits toward him , notwithstanding his provocation of him to have taken a contrary course with him , ver 12. labour therefore , 1. that your mind , which is the seat of principles , be well furnished with divine and spiritual truths . for false principles can never produce true comforts . as onely truth sanctifieth , joh. 17. 17. so truth onely truly comforteth . there is the same reason of both . for it is the peculiar office of the holy spirit , both to sanctifie , and to comfort : and the holy spirit is the spirit of truth , ioh. 16. 13. therefore he will not work by a falshood , but onely by truth , either sanctification , or consolation . 2. see that your understanding 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the dianoetical , discoursing faculty , which is the seat of conclusions , be used to deduce from spiritual principles , such spiritual conclusions as they are apt to beget . for , by false reasonings , in times of affliction and temptation . 1. believers hinder their faith and hope , when they reason too much from sense and present feeling , isa . 40. 27. and 49. 14. ezek. 33. 10. 2. others have false comforts from the light of a fire kindled by themselves , isa . 50. 11. but , if , renouncing such reasonings , you flie to christ and his righteousnesse alone , for your acceptance with god , through faith in his blood , with true repentance ; then you may reason with god , isa . 1. 18. though not in your own strength or worth , iob 9. 14 , 15. yet you may reason with him in faithful fervent prayer , in gen. 2. 10 , 11. 12. whereby he prevailed and got both a new blessing and a new name , ver . 28. fervent prayers are strong reasonings with god , in christs strength , and for his sake . this will be well pleasing to god. for , as , when god cals for our obedience , he adds perswasives to his precepts , and reasoneth with us as well as commandeth us ; so he allowed us , in prayer , to add perswasions to our petitions , and to reason with him as well as intreat him . onely , it must be our care that we reason from right topicks , and heads of arguments : such as these , 1. from the infinitenesse and freenesse of gods merccy and grace . 2. from the immutable firmnesse of his covenant and promises in christ . 3. from our indigence and dependance upon him . 4. from the concernments of his glory , and our necessary good . in such reasonings of faith and hope , the spirit , strength , and life of prayer consisteth . such pleadings , in the name of christ , god approveth and requireth , isa . 43. 26. 3. see that the heart , which is the seat of practical knowledge be fitted to order the conversation and practice , by sound principles , in the mind , and right conclusions , in the understanding ; that mental discourse may not vanish in meer empty speculation . as , in my text , the lord is my portion , is the principle laid up in their mind , saith my soul , is the proof it ; the conclusion to be from thence inferred , is , therefore it is my duty to hope in him . this knowledge becomes practical , when the heart so receiveth it , that the will comes to a resolution ; therefore i will hope in him . which is the next particular to be spoken to . lam. 3. 24. therefore i will hope in him . the reason alledged by the church is , not so much an argument to convince the judgment ( though it contains that also , as we have before proved ) as a motive to induce and incline the will to hope in god. for trusting and hoping in god , being a relying and waiting upon god for future good , do especially carry the will to him . as the understanding is led with truth , so the will is led with the goodnesse of things . as the judgment must be convinced of gods ability , so the heart must be sweetned with his love and readinesse to do us good , for the future , that we may hope in him . for meer knowledge and discourse cannot draw the heart to trust and hope in god , except it hath a rellish of his goodnesse . therefore david saith , o taste and see that the lord is good , psal . 34. 8. those reasons are most prevailing to incline the will towards god , which are drawn from the goodnesse of god , whereby the heart is opened and enlarged to expect all good , and nothing but good from him , who is goodnesse it self , and our god and portion , in jesus christ . this rellish is wrought in the renewed soul , by the spirit of faith , together with a light to discern our interest in god. doct. the reasons whereby believers are quickned and strengthened to hope in god , do strongly incline their will to resolve to hope in him . this is obvious frequently in scripture , that when the will is inclined to any spiritual good , it is upon spiritual reasons , the spirit of god joyning his efficacy therewith , and leaving a powerful rellish of that good in the soul . this you may see in psal . 40. 8. cant. 1. 3 , 4. ier. 3. 22. and in sundry texts . r. 1. from the different manner of the souls guiding the will , and the bodily members . the soul swayeth the will and affections , as counsellors doe a well ordered state , by propounding reasons to them . but the soul governeth the bodily members , as a master doth his slaves , by meer command . the will moves the hands and feet , &c. by command , without giving them reasons . but the will and affections move not without reason , or at least a shew of reason . god made man an understanding creature , indued with rational faculties , the understanding to be the leading faculty , and the will to be the appetite of the soul , according to reason . therefore it moves toward such a good as is presented to it by the illightned mind , or understanding , as the most 〈◊〉 and unquestionable object of it . for the freedom and willing consent of the heart is not without rules to order it ; but it is therefore said be free , because , whether , out of a true judgment , it moves one way , or , out of a false , another way ; yet , in both , it moves , in a manner suitable to its own condition . for this reason it is that god condiscends so far to us , in his word , as to give us so many reasons to hope in 〈◊〉 ; that our wils might be drawn thereunto , by suitable reasons . r , 2. from the manner of the spirits putting forth his efficacy to incline the wils of believers to hope in god. the heart of man , naturally , is not apt , but averse , hereunto , even when the understanding sees good reasons for it . therefore the will must necessarily be renewed and changed . this change consists in altering the bent , and inclination of the will , which the spirit of god doth , by bringing into the soul a new light , and powerful influence . 1. a new light , whereby we are inabled to see other things , or the same truths in a more spiritual and effectual manner , those impedimens being removed , which might hinder the evidence of spiritual truths , and the judgment being fully convinced , that we might know things not onely notionally , but practically , as we ought to know them , 1 cor. 8. 2. this is that illumination and revelation , whereof the scripture speaks , in eph. 1. 18 , 19. 1 cor. 2. 12. 1 joh. 5. 20. 2. a powerful influence : jesus christ , both opened the understanding of his disciples , luke 24. 45. and caused their hearts to burn within them , when he spake unto them , ver . 32. by this powerful influence the spirit makes every faculty and affection of the renewed soul , to work unto supernatural ends , and objects , according to its proper manner . as the soul , in the bodily eye , causeth it to see , and , in the ear , causeth it to hear , and , in the tongue , causeth it to speak , &c. so the spirit , in the mind , causeth it to understand aright , and , in every affection , causeth it freely to choose and cleave unto christ , and to god , in him , and , in every affection , causeth it to move towards christ and god , in such a manner and way of working , as is suitable to its nature . this the holy spirit doth , by creating and implanting in-dwelling lively spiritual gifts of grace in the soul , which he thereby sanctifieth and lifteth up unto god in christ ; the faculties and affections , which were by nature set upon the world and sin , and self , being now , by grace set upon things above , and so are said to be quickned and made alive unto god. hence every spiritual gift of grace , whereby any faculty and affection of the soul is sanctified , is called the spirit of that faculty and affection . the sanctified disposition of the mind is called , the spirit of a sound mind , 2 tim. 1. 7 : the gift of faith is called , the spirit of faith , 2 cor. 4. 13. so the gift of love , and of fear of the lord , is called , the spirit of love , 2 tim. 1. 7. and the spirit of the fear of the lord , isa . 11. 2. because the holy spirit , dwelling in the soul , infuseth those gifts into it , and so reneweth the faculties and affections of it , psal . 51. 10. and , 2. quickeneth and exciteth these spiritual gifts , and by them the faculties and affections unto spiritual acts . without this quickening influence , those spiritual gifts would be , in the soul , un-acted , as the bodily senses are , in sleep , or as a ship in a calme , at sea , act● agimus . we act , but instrumentally , subordinately under the spirit , who is the principal , efficient and agent , in all spiritual good . we act , but not in our strength , nor in the strength of grace received , but from the quickening , strengthening influence of the spirit . as trees , though they have in them a seminal vertue , yet , except they be helped by influence from heaven , cannot bring forth their fruits ; so it is with these spiritual trees of righteousnesse , as believers are called , in isa . 61. 3. it is god that worketh in us , both to will , and to do , of his good pleasure , phil. 2. 13. vse . for instruction , threefold : 1. hence we may learn the true reason , why the sudden resolutions of many to reforme this and that , and to do this and that particular , are so weak and mutable , as the morning cloud , and as the early dew , hos . 6. 4. which soon vanish . some , at an heart-searching and soul-piercing sermon , are affected , as that young man , till they are put upon such conditions , as their praedominant lust will not accept , mat. 19. 16 , 22. others , in some strong convictions and awakenings of conscience , are affected , as saul was for his unrighteous dealing with david , and do purpose against it , as he did , yet afterward with him return to their former sin again , 1 sam. 24. 16 , 17. with 26. 2. some , in great sicknesses , others , in great dangers by land , or sea , resolve that they will become new men , if god will be pleased to spare them , or deliver them , this time ; of whom the lord may complain , as he did of the children of israel in iudg. 10. 11 , 12 , 13. the reason is , because they are unregenerate , they are in their natural state . such may have a notional light , in their minds , and awakenings of their natural consciences , and stirrings in their affections , and sudden purposes toward god , and christ , and spiritual things , from a transient work of the spirit , exciting their innate principle of self-love thereunto , for a time ; during which , they are in a better mood , but not in a better state : as in sicknesses , the fits may be altered , yet the sicknesse remain in its strength . new resolutions , in an un-renewed heart , are like seed in an unsuitable soil , which prospers not , but withers , and dies , and comes to nothing , at last . how many such are now in hell ; where their remembrance of such fruitlesse , ineffectual purposes gnaweth their consciences , as a never-dying worm , and torments them for ever . 2. hence we may learn , whence it is that true believers have such firm resolutions of cleaving to god , in christ , and of hoping in him , when he hideth his face from them , in great afflictions , isa . 8. 17. ion. 2. 4. the reason of it is , because their hearts are purified by faith , acts 15. 9. which is seated principally , in the will , whereby it receiveth christ , ioh. 1. 12. rom. 5. 17. 1 tim. 15. and is the effect of the operation of god , col. 2. 12. by his exceeding greatnesse of power , eph. 1. 19 , 20. whose peculiar glory it is , to perswade the heart , gen. 9. 27. and to draw the will , to come unto christ , ioh. 6. 44. which he doth , by changing the disposition , inclination , and bent of it . if you offer green boughs unto swine ; they regard them not , but trample them under their feet ; but if their nature were changed into the nature of sheep , then they would be drawn to them . this is done by the spirit of god. 2 cor. 3. 17. before regeneration , the will is in bondage unto sin , but , being united unto christ , in regeneration , the son makes us free indeed , ioh. 8. 36. then the will freely moveth towards god , in christ , by faith and hope ; as a man , though he cannot give life to himself being dead , yet , when he is made alive , he can move himself , from a principle of life in him . so much faith as a man hath , so much free-will he hath to hope in god , in the worst times . so far as his spiritual grace and strength goes , so far he is able , by the concourse of gods spirit , which he usually joyns with the ability he hath given to his people , that it may be quickened and actuated thereby . a man cannot act his natural abilities , he cannot move his hand or foot , unlesse he be assisted with gods general concourse : so a man can do nothing in spiritual actions , without special concourse of grace in christ . ioh. 15. 5. but , being assisted , with a supply of the spirit , proportioned to the exigencies of services to be performed , and of temptations to be resisted , and of corruptions to be mortified , he may say , as paul did , phil. 4. 13. i can do all things , through christ , which strengtheneth me . 3. hence we may learn , in what manner believers in christ resolve to hope in god. this resolution in them may be known and distinguished from the resolutions of others , by four characters or properties . 1. it is a sanctified resolution . it is the effect of gods holy spirit dwelling in them , and removing far from them vanity and lying , pro. 30. 8. that is , vain and false apprehensions of things , and turning their whole soul unto god , in christ , to seek all their good in him . this is the effect of converting grace , as the prophet shews , in isa . 17. 7 , 8. at that day shall a man look to his maker , &c. 2. it is an obedient resolution , in answer to gods calling them to himself , in christ , psal . 27. 8. it is the yielding up of their wills to be ruled by gods will psal . 110. 3. when mens wils are not subdued and conformed unto gods will , they are , in times of affliction , like sullen birds in a cage , which beat themselves to death ; like peevish froward children , which will be pleased with nothing , if their wills be crossed in any thing . but when the will is subdued unto gods will , by the spirit , through the minis●●y of the gospel , 2 cor. 10. 5. then we can say , with asaph , it 's good for me to draw near to god , psal . 73. ult . and , with david , 2 sam. 15. 26. let the lord do with me what seemeth good in his own eyes . 3. it is a rational resolution , led by the best reasons . for , faith believes in christ , and in god , through christ upon gods authority and faithfulnesse and truth , in his word and covenant . hence it ministreth reasons to quicken and strengthen hope , from gods all-sufficiency , and love , in christ , and faithfulnesse in his promises to expect and wait upon god for all good from him , suitable to our needs , in the best season ; and to resolve , as job did , who said , though he kill me , yet will i trust in him , iob 13. 15. and ( if they see cause to complain ) to complain , not of god , but to god , nor of their crosses , but of the crossenesse of their wils to gods holy will ; as ephraim did , in ier. 31. 18. it is a dependent resolution , relying upon god , in christ , for ability to hope in him , isa . 26. 12. and therefore praying to him , as david did , in psal . 138. ult . and to keep it ever in the purpose of their hearts , 1 chron. 29. 18. with true self denial of any sufficiency of themselves , so much , as to think any thing , 2 cor. 3. 5. thus they become strong in the lord , and in the power of his might , eph. 6. 10. lam. 3. 24. hope in him . the last thing to be spoken to , is the duty esolved upon , illustrated by its objectr ▪ which is , to exercise divine hope ; for so i call that hope , which hath god for its object and efficient , who is therefore called the god of hope , rom. 15. 13. and for its ground , the word of god , as this hope hath , psal . 119. 49. the word in the original , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 translated hope , signifieth , to expect ; which is the formal act of hope . hence we may gather a definition of this divine hope . it is a lively , spiritual in-dwelling gift of grace , whereby believers are inclined to expect , in and from god , what ever good they want , and he hath promised . 1. for the general nature of it , which it hath in common with other fruits of the spirit ; it is , 1. a lively gift of grace , an holy quality , or habit , or disposition , freely given of god ; hereby it is distinguished from that hope , which is meerly a natural affection . for , the natural affection of hope is , by corrupt nature , set upon a mans self , and earthly things , and cannot savour the things of god ; and therefore is said to be dead . it 's an hope that hath given up the ghost , job 11. 20. natural men are big with hopes , as they that are with child , and are in pain , to bring their hopes to the birth ; but instead thereof , they bring forth wind . after long looking and hard labour , all is but a gripe of wind , like a fit of the collick , as the prophet intimates , in isa . 26. 18. but , by this gift of grace , which i call divine hope , that affection is sanctified , and lifted up unto god , and set upon him and heavenly things , and so quickened and made alive unto god. whence believers are said to be begotten again to a lively hope , 1 pet. 1. 3. this gift of grace i describe further by two properties : 1. spiritual , it is a spiritual gift , for two reasons : 1. because it is created and perfected in believers by the power of the holy spirit , rom. 15. 13. 2. because it makes them spiritual , in whom it is wrought , 1 cor. 2. 15. and fit instruments for gods spiritual service , 1 pet. 2. 5. 2. in-dwelling ; i call it an in-dwelling gift : 1. because it abides in all that are in christ . union with christ doth not extinguish it in believers . therefore , when believers are said to be dead , in col. 3. 3. it is not meant , in respect of sanctifying gifts of grace , inhaerent in them , as if they were dead , and the faculties and affections of their souls were immediately acted by the holy spirit ; but , in respect of sin , they are dead unto sin , but alive unto god , through our lord jesus christ , rom. 6. 11. 2. because it it is not a transient work upon us , nor abiding in the holy ghost , though he abideth in us ( for no created gifts or qualities abide in him ; for whatsoever is in him is himself ) but it is wrought , preserved , increased , actuated , and perfected in us by the holy ghost , as all other sanctifying inhaerent gifts of grace are . so much for the general nature of this divine hope . 2. the subject recipient of it are believers . for this hope is grounded on faith in the promises , gal. 5. 5. therefore , in the old testament , trusting in god , and hoping in god , are promiscuously used in one and the same sense , and in 1 pet. 3. 15. hope is put for faith . for they both act to-together inseparably , in supporting the soul , in times of affliction ; yet , in their manner of acting , there are some differences between them . for , 1. the adaequate object of faith is the whole word of god , holding forth good and evil , promises and threatnings , blessings and cursings . but the object of hope is good onely . 2. faith , in its relying upon the promises , looks to the word promising , and to the authority of god , the promiser ; but hope to the good promised , and to the goodnesse of the promiser . 3. faith looks to all times , past , present , and to come , and makes future things present , psal . 60. 7. but hope looks onely at good things , and at those onely as future . 4. faith lookes at god , as the first truth ; hope relies on god , as the chief good . 3. the formal act of hope is expectation . therefore it is said to look for him , in a way of waiting for him , isa . 8. 17. the greek word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , is well translated , earnest expectation , in rom. 8. 19. phil. 1. 20. it being a metaphor taken from the bodily gestures of those who look for some person or thing , with earnest desire , and assurance , lifting up and putting forth their head , stretching out their neck , fixing their eyes with intention and observation , to shew the strength , firmnesse , and certainty of this hope . for the object of this divine hope is principally god himself , 1 pet. 1. 21. and secondarily , all those means and degrees , whereby believers come unto god , ver . 1● . unto whom this hope looketh , with waiting upon him for all the good they want , and he hath promised : so that this hope is certain and infallible , being objectated upon god , founded in faith , and grounded upon the promises of god , who cannot lie , tit. 1. 2. hence it supporteth the heart , in the worst times . doct. hoping in god a right is a special means of supporting the soul against discouragement , in times of great afflictions . the scriptures are innumerable which confirm and prove this truth : and it must be so for these reasons . r. 1. from the formal object of divine hope , which is god himself , in whom alone is to be found all ability and readinesse to do good unto those that hope in him , and wait upon him , in such times . 1. all ability to help is in god alone . princes are of greatest abilities among men , yet we are forbidden to trust in princes , in whom there is no help , psal . 146. 3. men commonly think themselves happy in the favour and protection of princes : but they are deceived . therefore it is added , in ver . 5. happy is he that hath the god of jacob for his help , whose hope is in the lord his god. for no creature hath ability , of it self , and what ever ability god hath put into any , yet the exercise and successe of it depends on god alone . except the lord build the house , they labour in vain that build it : except the lord keep the city , the watchman waketh but in vain . it is in vain to rise up early , to go to bed late , to eat the bread of sorrows . so he will give his beloved quiet sleep , psal . 127. 1 , 2. that is , in their resting upon him , building , keeping , giving them bread without sorrows . therefore , when men say , they hope for this or that , from such a creature ; either they mean , they hope to receive it from god , by such a creature , or it notes , not a divine , but a meer humane hope ; or it is , not a christian , but a vain hope . 2. as god onely is able , so he is alwayes ready to do good to all those that hope in him . for he is infinite , as well in goodnesse , as in power . thou are good and doest good , psal . 119. 68. this david largely shewes by sundry instances , in two cases . 1. in deliverances , where of he notes four examples , in psal . 107. 1. of men wandering in the wildernesse , ver . 2. to 10. 2. of prisoners , ver . 10. to 17. 3. of persons dangerously sick , ver . 17. to 23. 4. of men in great danger , by storms , at sea , ver . 23. to 33. in all which , he saih , god helps men crying to him , when all help and hope in the creature fails them . 2. in various changes of mens outward conditions ; in reference , both to the increase of the fruits of the earth , or to the diminishing of them , whereby men become rich , or poor , ver . 33. to 36. and to mens preferment , or abasement , ver . 40 , 41. the summe of all is , that , which the psalmist saith elsewhere , in psal . 46. 1. god is our refuge and strength , a very present help in trouble . ob. seeing hope is of things future , and god is a present help ; how can it be said , that god is the object of our hope ? answ . 1. god is , not onely a present help ; but also a future help , even for ever . and so he is the object both of our faith and hope , 1 pet. 1. 21. and , for the future , hope relyes upon god , though the soul doth injoy him , at present , as our god. 1. that he will continue his goodnesse to us . this god is our god , and he will be our guide unto death , psal . 48. ult . 2. that we shall have a more cleer and full sight of him , psal . 42. 11. 3. that he will supply all our need , phil. 4. 19. and that he will multiply grace and peace unto us . 1 pet. 1. 1. and that , as he is the god of all grace , he will , after we have suffered a while , make us perfect , stablish , strengthen , settle us , 1 pet. 5. 10. these future good things hope expects , and 4. at last eternal salvation . therefore it is called , the hope of salvation , 1 thess . 5. 8. the hope of glory , rom. 5. 2. and the hope of eternal life , tit. 3. 7. all which are good things to come , and though difficult , yet possible to be had , by his help , and are most certain , by vertue of his promise , in christ , which is the ground of this hope . hence hope is called an anchor sure and steadfast , heb. 6. 19. r. 2. from gods manner of bringing the soul and this object , himself , together , by this hope . for 1. by effectual convincing and humbling the soul , he prepares it for this hope . he gives them the valley of achor for a door of hope , hos . 2. 15. 2. he doth it , by revealing his grace to a soul so prepared . to this end , 1. he openeth the eyes of their understanding , eph. 1. 18. 2. having given them a spiritual eye-sight : he layes his grace and goodnesse in christ , before them , by the ministry of the gospel , eph. 3. 9. 3. he particularly applyeth the same to them , as theirs , by the ministry of the word , acts 13. 26. and by the efficacy of the spirit , psal . 35. 3. so that now they can look upon god , in the covenant of grace , as their god , 2 cor. 6. 18. and upon all the good of the covenant , as a legacy given unto them by christ , in his last will and testament , 2 pet. 1. 3. hence what they yet have not , in sense , they see ground to hope for , psal . 130. ult . and this hope supports the heart under great affliction , upon three main propps : 1. the power of gods grace : 1. to pardon many and great great sins , rom. 5. 20. 2. to perform all his promises , how difficult so ever it may seem to our sense and reason , rom. 4. 18. to 22. 3. to comfort in all tribulations , 2 cor. 1. 3 , 4. 4. to help in all distresses , 2 cor. 1. 9 , 10. 2. upon the freenesse of gods grace and promise , notwithstanding all our un-worthynesse , isa . 43. 25. mich. 7. 18. 3. upon the reality of gods good purposes towards us , declared by sending his son , and his sons comming , to bring us to god , luke 19. 10. 1 pet. 3. 18. and christs calling us unto himself , mat. 11. 28 , 29. and the fathers drawing us unto his son , joh. 6. 44 , 45. the rellish which believers have of the sweetnesse of gods grace , in christ , turneth the eye of their soul towards him , in desires and expectations of further good from him , psal . 34. 8. r. 3. from the effects of this hope , all which shew that the soul is supported by it . 1. it brings comfort to the soul . therefore rejoycing is joyned with this hope , rom. 12. 12. there is joy in hope of good to come , though it be yet absent . because the soul hath a taste of it , in the beginnings , and first fruits . now joy strengthens the heart answerably to the degree of it . the joy of god is your strength , neh. 8. 10. as when a man seeth the clouds begin to clear , in a time of rain , he is comforted , in hope that it will be fair weather ; so when the soul , under great affliction , seeth some glimpse of the light of gods countenance , his hope and joy reviveth , and is increased , as that is more cleared unto him , 1 pet. 1. 3 , 6. 2. it quieteth and setleth the heart in peace proportionably to the measure of our trusting and hoping in god ; moses found it so , at the red sea. exod , 14. 13. and david , at ziglag , 1 sam. 30. 6. 3. it makes the heart patient in waiting on god , with submission to his good pleasure , psal . 37. 7. & 34. 34. how is god their strength in the time of trouble ? by strengthening their hope to wait patiently and quietly upon him , not using any indirect and unlawful means to escape or come out of trouble . the lord cryed , concerning this : their strength is to sit still , isa . 30. 7. 4. it causeth the soul to cleave unto god , whatever befals them in the way of obedience , rom. 5. 23. heb. 3. 6. vse 1. for reproof of two sorts : 1. all unregenerate persons may be hence convinced that their state is wretched and miserable , upon two grounds : 1. because they have no hope in god , eph. 2. 12. a christlesse state is an hopelesse state , and an hopelesse state is the worst condition . they pretend to this hope , but without ground , and an ungrounded hope is a self-deluding hope . the object of their hope shall fail them , mat. 7. 22 , 23. and the hope which they seem to have , shall perish , and be cut off , iob 8. 13 , 14. it shall be as a spiders web , finely spun , but not firm , it s but an hope of their own making , as the spiders web is wrought out of its own bowels ; and , as the spider thinks it self , when it is lodged in its web , so they think themselves safe in their salse hope ; but as the spiders web is easily and suddenly swept away , so shall their hope be by gods beesome , isa . 14. 23. 2. because they abound in vain hopes ; in themselves , luke 18. 19. in men , isa . 2. 22. in riches , 1 tim. 6. 17. in chariots and horses , psal . 20. 7. in their mental and bodily abilities , prov. 3. 4. jer. 9. 23 , 24. such hopes argue ignorance , pride , atheism , idolatry , setting up the creature above god , jer. 2. 12 , 13. the effects also are pernicious . 1. losse , jon. 2. 8. phil. 3. 7. 2. disappointment , ier. 8. 15. 3. to be ashamed of their hope , iob 6. 20. isa . 1. 29. and 20. 5. and 30. 5. 4. great hurt , hos . 12. 1. ephraim feedeth on wind , and followeth the east-wind . the east wind , in those eastern countries , was an hot skorching wind , that blasted things , and made them wither , gen. 41. 6. ezek. 17. 10. as pharaoh was to the people of israel , so are all false objects of hope , the staffe of a broken reed , whereon if a man leane , it will go into his hand and pierce it , isa . 36. 6. many have found it so , on their death beds , and in hell for ever . 2. hence believers are to be reproved , who do not exercise this hope , but give way to discouragement , in times of affliction . for , 1. hereby they make themselves unfit to perform duties towards god and men , in a right manner . towards god , in prayer , and receiving the word and the outward seales of the covenant , and in thanks-giving and praysing god. towards men , in an amiablenesse towards all , and in merciful helpfulnesse towards the afflicted . 2. they dishonour religion , by strengthening ignorant and profane persons , in a false conceit , that religion is but a melancholick humour . 3. they weaken themselves and others . themselves ; for , from fainting , comes discouragement , and thence , halting , and from thence an aptnesse to be turned out of the good way . for take away hope , and you take away all endeavor . others also , if they be weak , will be offended ; and , if they be prejudiced , will be apt to insult and to twit such , as eliphaz did iob , in iob 4. 3. to 7. 4. they give satan great advantages against themselves , who diligently observeth such times , when christians are under deep despondency of spirit , when they have laid aside their helmet , to wound and weaken them more , he will then ply them with suggestions , to make them believe any thing against god , and against the scripture , and against themselves , and to conclude desperate things , to their own hurt . object . this is my case ; therefore i never had a right hope in god. answ . thus one iscouragement followes upon another , as circles in the water , whereinto a stone is cast , which should humble you for neglect of stirring up your hope unto excercise . but yet , let it not discourage you . for true hope is sometimes in a believer , as in those trees , spoken of in isa . 6. 13. whose substance is in them when they cast their leaves . it is onely winter with you , then life is hid in the root , though no signe of it appears outwardly ; that you may learn not to trust in grace received , but in christ ; depending on him to quicken and actuate his own gifts of grace in you , waiting with fervent desires and prayers for the sun of righteousnesse to arise upon you , with healing in his wings . in the mean time , remember that christ himself hath pronounced them blessed , who are poor in spirit , and mourn , are meek , and hunger and thirst after righteousnesse , and that he hath promised unto such , that heaven is theirs , they shall be comforted , shall inherit the earth , and shall be satisfied . let such encouragements quicken your hope , and quiet your hearts , that it shall be with you , according to his word , and that your hope so grounded , shall not make you ashamed . vse 2. for instruction , in three particulars : 1. how to bring and keep the object and this act , god and this hope together . 2. how to try , whether you hope in god aright , or not . 3. how to exercise this hope , in sundry cases , in which you may be called to the practice of it . this instruction is necessary , at all times , and especially , in these times , wherein we may have more necessitous use of this hope , then many do imagine . therefore i shall the more studiously insist in clearing these particulars , speaking to the first , at this time , with the help of christ . 1. how to bring and keep the object and act , god and this hope together . the holy pen-man of the epistle to the hebrewes , in heb. 3. 6. compares the church of god to an house ; saying , whose house we are , if we hold fast the confidence , and rejoycing of hope firme to the end . as it is in the building of an house , so it must be in the building of this hope . in the building of an house , that it may be strong , and kept strong , three things are necessary : 1. that a strong foundation be well laid . 2. that the house be strongly built upon it . 3. that it be kept in due repair . so it must be , in this great businesse , whereof we now speak . 1. a strong foundation of hope must be well laid . 2. our hope must be strongly built upon it . 3. we must be careful that our hope be continually kept in due repair . of these three we shall speak distinctly , and shall endeavour to shew how they are to be done . 1. for the first , god himself , as he makes himself and his will known unto us , by his written word , is the onely suitable object , and strong foundation , or ground-work of this hope . therefore the church , in my text , saith , i will hope in him . for in him alone are the properties of that object , on which true hope must rely . a man can be in no condition , wherein he needs help , but there is in god power and will to supply it unto him . if comfort be wanting , he is the god of all comfort , 2 cor. 1. 3. he can and will create comforts , for his people , out of nothing ; yea , out of the contrary : as he caused at first , light to shine out of darknesse , 2 cor. 4. 6. those troubles , temptations , and persecutions , and afflictions , which threaten destruction , become means of our salvation , by his over-ruling providence , who is wonderful in counsel , and excellent in working , isa . 28. ult . in this object , two principles are to be looked at . 1. a principle of being . 2. a principle of knowing . 1. the principle of being , is god himself , concerning whom , five particulars must be believed , that our hope may be objeccated upon him . 1. that god in whom we hope , is an eternal , independant being or essence , who giveth being , and order of being , and power of working unto all things . 2. that in the being or essence of god are three subsistences or persons : god , in the first person , the father ( with the son and holy spirit ) decreed the salvation of the elect , and all things tending thereunto . god , in the second person , the son , hath fully and exactly answered that decree , as our surety , in the work of redemption . god , in the third person , the holy spirit , effectually reveales and applies the love of the father , and the grace of the son unto the elect , in time , and fits them for communion with the father and the son , from both whom he proceeds . 3. that christ , the mediator , is immanuel , in whom god was reconciling the world unto himself , 2 cor. 5. 19. who united the two natures of god and man , in his person , and was thereby fit to bring god and man together , having made man amiable to god , and god amiable to man , who were enemies before , by the sin of man. 4. that god , in christ , is fatherly towards believers , in all his attributes , whereby he is described , in exod. 34. 6 , 7. and other texts of scripture , all which are in god essential ; and therefore eternal , and infinite . 5. that god acteth all these his excellencies , by his fatherly providence , governing and ordering all things for the good of his people , so powerfully , that satan and his instruments , in seeking to crosse his revealed will , shall and do fulfil his secret will , to their own confusion . this providence extends as far as the creation , all things , even the most casual , and most disordered things , sins , and the most free actings of men are ordered by it , so that god doth sometimes great things by weak means , disabling more likely means , eccles . 9. 11. sometimes without means , and sometimes crossing the course of means . and , when evil is intended , god either wholly averts it , or limits and bounds it , in regard of measure , psal . 129. 3. 4. or of continuance , psal . 125. 3. hereby also he causeth and ordereth a cessation of actions , that some shall not favour us , and others shall want wisdom and ability to help us , from gods with-drawing his concurrence , who hath sufficient reason , as well , not to do what he doth not , as to do what he doth . the right knowledge of god in his being , is necessary to the well-laying the ground-work of this hope , as conducing unto the preparatory purposes and uses . 1. to silence all disputes and murmurrings : this made aaron hold his peace , lev. 10. 2 , 3. and david not to open his mouth , psal . 39. 9. 2. to cause the soul to resigne up a mans self to the will of god , who worketh all things according to the counsel of his will , eph. 1. 11. so it wrought in ely , 1 sam. 3. 18. in david , 2 sam. 15. 26. and in the saints , acts 21. 14. 3. to quicken us to inure our selves to do gods will , that we may be fit to suffer it . for passive obedience springs from active . then are mens wills in right order , when , as god is the highest , so his will hath the highest place in our hearts ; when they are willing to do what god commands , to suffer what god inflicts , and to be at gods dispose , when this stayeth our hearts , in all events , that they are in covenant with him , who sits at the stern , and hath committed all power to our redeemer , who hath our names in his brest-plate , and on his shoulders . the second principle to be looked at in god , that our hope may be well built on him , is a principle of knowing . this principle is the written word , whereby god makes himself and his will known unto us , without which we have no good ground or warrant to build our hope upon god. but , that his people may thus hope in him with strong encouragement , he gives us his word , that thereby we may know his good thoughts , and purposes towards us , which is a sufficient ground of hope , it being the word of him that cannot lie ; and not onely his bare word , but a binding word , his promises , which are free expressions of his love , with engagement of it unto us ; nor onely promises , but his covenant , founded upon a full satisfaction made to his justice , by our redeemer , as the head of the covenant ; and thereunto hath added his oath , hob. 6. 18. and seals , both outward , rom. 4. 11. and inward , eph. 1. 13. and all this he hath done , that our hope might be built upon a strong foundation , that believers might be supported in all tempests , isa . 54. 9. 10 , 11. 2. having such a strong foundation well laid , our next duty is , to build strongly upon it . which that you may do , attend to these directions . 1. see that you trust and hope in god by light and strength received from himself . 1. by divine light , not by meer humane reasons . for none can so know god , in his truth , and goodnesse , as to trust and hope in him , but by his own light revealing himself to the soul , by his word and spirit ; as none can see the sun , but by its own light , psal . 36. 9. 2. the divine power must accompany this light . for , neither education , nor examples of others , nor our own resolutions , can settle our hearts upon god , till we find an inward power and authority causing divine truths to shine into our hearts , and subduing all our reasonings and thoughts unto the obedience of faith ; onely that soul , which hath found the efficacy of the spirit , by the word , in casting it down , and raising it up , and renewing it , can hope in god aright for things of god ; them , and not before , a man chooseth god for his portion , and cleaveth to him , as his chief good ; then , and not before , the sweetnesse of gods love is ▪ let into the soul , and rellished by it , which draweth the whole soul to trust and hope in him , psal . 9. 10. 3. suit the promises to your several conditions . for what ever condition of life any believer is or can be in , he hath promises in the word suitable to it ; whether present , or possible . 1. at present , what ever difficulties or impossibilities , as to second causes , and means appear to sense , or reason , faith lifteth up the soul above them all , to look unto the promises and power of god , and thereby quickneth and strengthenth our hope in him , rom. 4. 19 , 20 , 21. heb. 11. 27. 2. possible , the saints have found great help to their faith and hope , by putting cases , and answering their own hearts therein from gods all-sufficiencies . so david , though i walk through the valley of the shadow of death , i will fear none evil ; for thou art with me , psal . 23. 4. again , though an host should encampe against me , my heart should not fear , psal . 27. 3. again , god is our refuge and strength , a very present help in trouble ; therefore we will not fear , though the earth be removed , and though the mountains be carried into the midst of the sea , though the waters thereof roar , psal . 46. 1 , 2 , 3. paul excellently puts other cases , of an higher nature than these , and triumphs over them all , in the unchangeablenesse of gods love to believers in christ , rom. 8. 38 , 39. 3. when your hope is quickened , by the promises , look unto god with a single eye , trusting and hoping in him alone . to trust upon two props , of which one is sound , the other rotten , is the ready way to fall . make use of all helps , which god gives you , but hope in him alone . for hoping in god is a part of that natural worship of god , injoyned in the first commandement , which belongs to god alone , mat. 4. 20. and thus to have our eyes towards god alone is the proper effect of true conversion , isa . 17. 7 , 8. 4. see that the dispositions of your spirits be answerable to the relations you have to god , when he becomes your portion , and the object of your hope . he hath , 1. the relation of a faithful creator , and the disposition in you that must suit that , is , to commit your souls to him in well-doing , 1 pet. 4. 19. in the want of means . 2. the relation of a father , and the disposition in you that suits thereunto , is , to cast your care upon him , believing that he careth for you , 1 pet. 5. 7. mat. 6. 32. 3. the relation of an husband , the disposition that suits that , is foederal faithfulnesse , hos . 2. 19 , 20. 2 cor. 11. 2 , 3. 4. the relation of a guid and teacher , the disposition suitable to that is , to yield up your selves in all things to be guided by his counsel , as asaph did , psal . 73. 24. 5. the relations of your judge , law-giver , and king , isa . 33. 22. the disposition which answers those relations , is obedience to gods commands , and walking in his wayes . else , you do not trust in him , but tempt him , mat. 4. 7. you may expect god , in his wayes of mercy , when you keep in your way of obedience . then you may , with comfort , expect what ever good those relations can yield , from the all-sufficient god , who regarding more our weaknesse then his own greatnnesse , condiscendeth so low as to take upon himself such relations , for the strengthening our hope in him . 5. often call to mind former experiences , both of your selves , and others . experience worketh hope , rom. 5. 4. 1. of others , psal . 22. 4. and thence infer , as david did , thou lord hast not forsaken them that trust in thee , psal . 9. 10. 2. of your selves , 2 cor. 1. 9 , 10. 2 tim. 4. 17 , 18. christians should be ready to communicate their own experiences to others , as david did in psal . 66. 16. thus the word will be as silver seven times tryed , ps . 12. 6. 6. rest not in your hoping in god , as it is an act done , or a grace exercised by you . for hoping is but the act of a creature , and the gift of hope it self is but a created gift , and to hope in any creature , is to make that creature an idol . but to depend upon god to quicken and strengthen your hope in himself alone , who is called , the hope of israel , jer. 14. 6. and by his help , through the promise , to trust and hope in him the promiser , who gives promises , and can create performances ( so that , if you close with the promise , as good , you may close with the promiser , as better , who both speaks what he means , and will perform what he speaks ; ) this is the way to build your hope strongly upon god. 3. that you may keep this hope in repair : 1. see that your hoping in god be a continued act , frequently renewed upon every new occasion , not onely in adversity , but also in prosperity , as well in injoyments as in wants . for we have use of hoping in god for the continuance of the good we have , and for his blessing to be continued to us in it . 2. observe what breaches are made in your hope , from day to day ; whether from within , by corruptions , or from without by temptations ? you will find that the main breaches are either from false principles , or from doubts of true principles , or from inadvertency , and mindlessenesse of them . thence the soul is as sheep that are driven from mountain to hill , and have forgotten their resting place , jer. 50. 6. 3. having found out the impediments of your hoping in god , stir up your selves as david did , saying , return unto thy rest , o my soul , psal . 116. 7. by stirring up this gift of god in you , 2 tim. 1. 6. to this end , 1. see that your judgment be right . 2. beware of those things that are opposite to this hope , and cast them off , heb. 12. 1 , 2. where every thing that bows the soul downward is compared to a weight ; and loose affections , and false reasonings , are compared to a long loose garment , which easily besets the feet , and will hinder a runner in a race , if it be not laid aside , or girt up . 3. speak to your own heart , as you would speak to another , in a like case . 4. joyn prayer with your use of other means , rom. 15. 13. 5. according to gods order of promising , do you proceed to quicken and strengthen your faith and hope in him . 1. he promiseth that he will be your god , so let your faith look at him , in christ , and let your hope expect that he will be so to you , for the future , and for ever , psal . 48. ult . 2. he promiseth that he will forgive all sins unto repentant believers . therefore renew your repentance and faith in the blood of christ daily , and then hope in him , and pray that he will make you to hear joy and gladnesse , and restore to you the joy of his salvation , as david did , ps . 51. 8 , 12. 3. he hath promised that he will sanctifie , and heal his people . therefore hope in him , and pray to him for it , as david did , in ps . 138. ult . 4. he hath promised that he will give that inheritance in heaven unto all that are sanctified by faith in christ . therefore wait for it in hope , rom. 8. 23 , 24. and let that hope comfort and strengthen your hearrs in all the sufferings of this life , 2 cor. 4. 16 , 17 , 18. 5. he hath promised that he will give all things needful for this life , till we come thither , psal . 84. 11. therefore hope in him for daily bread , and for all things you need . for as the same love of god moved him to save his elect for ever , and to provide for them in this world , till they be put into possession of that salvation ; so the same hope relyeth upon god , both for heaven hereafter , and for all necessary supplies , till we come thither . thus we have endeavoured to instruct you , in this first point , how to bring the act and object , god and this hope , together , that you may hope in him , which , you see , is a matter of great importance , and necessary to be understood practically , that we may hope in god aright . the second instruction is , to teach men how to try whether their hoping in god , which they pretend , is right , or not . the danger is very great , if you be deceived herein , yet many are deceived , through want of light to discern the difference between the natural affection of hope and this spiritual gift of hope in god. this divine hope , whereof we now speak , may be known by 3 characters . 1. by the ground of it . 2. by the formal act of it . 3. by the proper effect of it . 1. by the ground of it . if it be rightly grounded , it is the right hope . the ground of this hope is faith , heb. 11. 1. which hath a double object . 1. god in christ . 2. the word of god. that you may try and examine your hope , whether it be thus grounded or not ; we shall insist some-what more largely in this , and be more brief in the two following characters , which will be more easily apprehended , after this is cleared . 1. hope is rightly grounded , when it is grounded or bottomed upon faith , receiving christ , and applying to our selves , in him , god as our god , and portion , in the covenant of grace . it is the office and work of faith , to appropriate god in christ , to a mans self . the voice of christ unto believers , is , my father is your father , and my god your god , joh. 20. 17. and the voice of faith , in a believer , to christ , is , my lord and my god , ver . 28 , 29. god absolutely considered , out of christ , is an object of the greatest terrour unto sinners , isa . 33. 14. but god , relatively considered , in christ , as our god and portion , is the chiefest object of our hope , and love . faith cleaveth unto god , as our god and portion . and , when we know that god is our portion , and thereupon hope in him , then our hoping in god is right , because it is rightly grounded . our having god for our portion , begins at our entring into covenant with him . for then , and not before , we have a propriety in god , and he in us , ezek. 16. 8. this propriety in god is given and manifested to us , by degrees . 1. the soul is convinced of the vanity and insufficiency of all other things to be our portion , and so is made willing to forsake them all , that it may injoy god , as his portion . till this be done , men observe lying vanities , and forsake their own mercy , jon. 2. 8 , 9. 2. the soul is convinced that god is the god of some , by a peculiar right , psal . 4. 3. these he accounts the onely happy men in the world , psal . 144. ult . 3. hence arise fervent desires that god would be so to him , in particular . remember me , o lord , with the favour of thy people , psal . 106. 4. 4. the soul is quickened , by the spirit of faith , to turn unto the lord with true repentance , and to put it self upon gods mercy in christ , and to wait upon him for the discovery of his love to him , joel 2. 13 , 14. 5. god , having thus far brought the soul towards himself , doth , in his own time , manifest to us that he is our god , whence the soul actually closeth with him , by faith , in christ , as our portion , hos . 2. 13. psal . 73. 25. 6. hereupon we come to hope in him , for what ever good we need , and he hath promised , psal . 147. 11. and as faith groweth more towards full assurance , so hope groweth more strong in spiritual security , and courage , and glorying in god , psal . 48. ult . yet , in the darkest times , faith inables the soul , from its former taste of gods goodnesse , to claim an interest in him still . doubtlesse , thou art our father , &c. isa . 63. 16. with an expectation of future good from him , psal . 42. 11. yea , when experience and sense failes , by reason of our inadvertency , yet so much vertue of former sense remains , as inables the soul , even when it is in darknesse , and seeth no light , to trust in the name of the lord , and stay it self upon his god , isa . 50. 10. and to wait upon the lord , even when he hideth his face from us , and to look for him , isa . 8. 17. but , if any desire to know how they may clearly discern that their hope is grounded on faith in god , as their god and portion in christ ; i answer , you may know it by gods influence in a believing soul , whereby this hope is quickned and strengthened . for , when god becomes any ones portion , he becomes a fountain of blessings to that person , god , our own god shall blesse us , psal . 67. 6. he is a sun and a shield , the lord will give grace and glory , no good thing will he withhold from them , psal . 84. 11. especially , of spiritual blessings , which the apostles , in their salutations , comprehend in two things , grace . and peace . god as our god , in christ , is the god of both to his people . he is the god of all grace , 1 pet. 5. 10. and the god of peace , heb. 13. 20. that is , he influenceth believers with all those graces , which breed peace and quietnesse in their souls , supporting them under all burthens of temptations , troubles , wants , imperfections , till they come to enjoy perfect rest in god himself , and fitting them , in the mean time , more and more , for all that good , which they want , in themselves , and he hath prepared for them , in christ . for , 1. god , as our portion , is the god of love ; yea , love it self , 1 joh. 4. 8. and a tast of his love is better than wine , cant. 1. 3. so full of spirit that it will revive a drooping , sinking , dying soul , and quicken all graces in it , and make any condition comfortable , any affliction tollerable , and strengthen it to wait for more full communion with god , in the use of the most difficult means , as jacobs love to rachel , inabled him to wait for her seven years , in an hard service , and they seemed to him but as a few dayes , gen. 29. 20. 2. god , as our portion in christ , is the god of hope , rom. 15. 13. whereby , as by an anchor , he stayeth and sixeth the soul upon himself : as a ship at anchor , though it may be moved , and tossed , yet it is not removed from its place and station ; so , if you find that your soul cleaveth to god , in christ , and will not be driven from him , whatever troubles , or temptations befal you ; your hope in him is right . this asaph found , in psal . 73. ult . 3. god , as our god and portion , is the god of patience , rom. 15. 5. whereby believers resigne up themselves to his dispose , humbly submitting their wils to his . if you find it so ; your hope is right . david found it so , 1 sam. 30. 6. 4. god , as our portion , is the father of spirits , heb. 12. 9. which he so governs , and meekens , that , though we be sensible of afflictions , he keeps our spirits from discontentment and murmurring , in a quiet frame . hereby also you may know that your hope is right . the church found it so , in mich. 7. 9. 5. god , as our portion , is god all-sufficient , gen. 17. 1. whence he gives us contenment , in all estates , 1 tim , 6. 6. if you find it so , your hope is right . paul found it so , phil. 4. 11 , 12. 6. god , as our portion , is the god of all comfort , 2 cor. 1. 3. who , by letting the light of his countenance into the soul , maketh it light-some . this joy strenthens the soul , neh. 8. 6. against inordinate fears of wants , psal . 23. 1. or of dangers , ver . 4. and under sense of afflictions , rom. 5. 2 , 3. and oppositions , mich. 7. 7. and temptations , 2 cor. 12. 9 , 10. and in all events , rom. 8. 38 , 39. not , that every believer attains to such high actings of faith and and hope ; yet , if it prevail to cause them to trust in him , and stay themselves upon him , in the dark , it is a right hope , isa . 50. 10. 2. hope is rightly grounded , when it is bottomed upon the word and promises of god believed in . in the first conversion , when the soul had nothing , but the bare promise of free mercy in christ , to look at , god did thereby cause us to trust and hope in him , psal . 119. 49. without former experiences . in like manner , he worketh in believers , in dark times , when they cannot recal former experiences , and want present sense of gods love , god quickeneth his people , by quickening their in-looking to the naked promise , psal . 119. 50. and thereby their hope also , isa . 8. 17. hence jacob became such a mighty wrastler with god , gen. 32. with hos . 12. 4. god is ever mindful of his covenant , psal . 111. 5. and faithful in his promises . 1 thess . 5. 24. hope looks at the good of the promise , and the goodnesse of the promiser , for that part of the promise , which is not yet performed , as faith looks at the truth of the promise , and faithfulnesse of the promiser . now , that hope thus grounded , is a right hope , may be proved ; because , when faith in the promises quickeneth and strengtheneth hope in believers , then gods ends are attained , for which he giveth promises . his ends are these , and the like : 1. to make known unto his people his good thoughts and purposes concerning them , jer. 29. 10. this he doth , to incourage them to hope for a good end , and to endeavour , in the use of good means , to attain it , ver . 11 , 12. 2. to draw the elect unto christ , in whom all gods promises are yea , and amen , 2 cor. 1. 20. 3. to shew what credit god hath in the hearts of his people , joh. 3. 33. 1 joh. 5. 9. 10. 4. to let believers see that they are richer , in their lowest estate , than others are in their greatest worldly possession . for they have god himself , for their portion , when others have but his gifts , psal . 4. 7. they have christ , and unsearchable riches , in him , eph. 3. 8. who became poor , that , by his poverty , we might be made rich , 2 cor. 8. 9. they have spiritual riches , rev. 2. 9. they are rich in faith , iam. 2. 5. whereas others have onely their bellies filled , psal . 17. 14. believers have a large estate in promises , 1 tim. 4. 8. which are gods bills , and bonds , and deeds of gift , for a great while to come , 2 sam. 7. 19. they have much in possession , and much more in hope , 1 pet. 1. 3. so that , when we hope in his word , god attaineth his end in giving his word . therefore hope grounded on the word , is a right hope . 2. by the formal act of hope , you may try , whether it is right or not . expectation is the formal act of hope . this expectation hath three properties : 1. it 's earnest , phil. 1. 20. 2. it 's patient , rom. 8. 25. patient , 1. of labouring . 2. of suffering . 3. of waiting . because between hoping and having , there is a want of the thing desired and promised , till gods time , for performing comes . this delay is troublesome , prov. 13. 12. therefore we have need of patience , heb. 10. 35. the husband-man soweth in hope , and waits with patience for the precious fruits of the earth , iam. 5. 7. which the apostle there applies to believers . 3. with continuance iob 14. 14. such waiting on god gives him the glory of his independency , all-sufficiency , immutability , goodnesse , faithfulnesse , and wisdom , it hath great blessings , annexed to it , prov. 8. 34 , 35. isa . 30. 18. isa . 40. 31. the contrary is a compound of many sins , of pride , and impatience , psal . 78. 41. and and discontent , 2 kings 6. 33. and unbeliefe , isa . 28. 16. 3. by the proper effect of this hope , you may know , it to be right ; love floweth from faith and hope , 1 cor. 13. ult . especially , to god , in christ , in whom we hope . hence he that hath this hope , purgeth himself , as christ is pure , 1 ioh. 3. 3. and is diligent in using all gods means , with avoiding the contrary , heb. 10. 22. to 26. with dependance on god , and trusting in him alone , not in our abilities , 1 sam. 2. 9. prov. 3. 5 , 6 , or graces , which gave peter two fals , nor in our performances , psal . 127. 1 , 2. nor in the means themselves , hest . 4. 14 , 16. thus you see what are the characters of hoping in god aright : if upon tryal , you find them to be in you , in truth ; that hope will not make you ashamed , but you shall have cause to say , with the church , in isa . 25. 9. lo , this is our god , we have waited for him , and he will save us , &c. the third instruction is , how to exercise hope in god aright , in sundry cases , wherein you are called to practise it . these cases are of two sorts . 1. such as concern mens private conditions . 2. such as concern the publike . the first sort of cases , which concern the private conditions of believers , are either for the present , or for the time past , or for the time to come . we shall shew how this hope is to be excercised , in these concernments , severally , and distinctly , with gods assistance . 1. for the time present , when believers are under excessive grief , whatever is the cause of it ; whether sin or affliction , in your persons , or relations . believers , as well as others , are subject to many afflictions , in this life , psal . 34. 19. many are the afflictions of the righteous , and , not of some one kind onely , but of divers kinds . job saith of every one , his flesh upon him shall have pain , and his soul within him shall mourn , iob 14. ult . herein two things are to be cleared . 1. that it is our duty to grieve under affliction , proportionately to the cause . it is dedolency , stupidity , not to grieve for afflictions , jer. 5. 3. it is therefore our duty to grieve , when god afflicteth us , but more for gods displeasure apprehended therein . 2. it is our duty to grieve more for sin then for affliction . 3. more for sin in our selves than in others , and 4. for sin in our near relations more than in others more remote ; yet it is unlawful to let grief exceed the proportion allowed by the rules of gods word , as all do , who have not this hope , 1 thess . 4. 13. the spirit of man is , by corrupt nature , unstable , as water , gen. 49. 4. alwayes running forth , unlesse ( as water is bounded by the bank or vessel , into which it is put , so ) our spirits be bounded , and kept within compasse , by the spirit of god. vvould you know , when grief exceeds , or is immoderate ? you may know it by the effects . 1. if it distempers and hurts the body . godly sorrow , as such , hurts no man , it is healing to the soul , and not hurtful to the body , unlesse , by accident , the body being before under painful distemper , which is apt to be increased by any grief . worldly sorrow causeth death , 2 cor. 7. 10. vvorldly sorrow is , not onely , that which is for worldly things , but also that which is for sin , upon worldly respects , as the principal motives of it . and that sorrow hurts the body , and doth no good to the soul , as david found , when guile prevailed in his spirit , psal . 32. 2 , 3 , 4. 2. if it hinders you from , or in , the performance of any duty . 1. from it . the good ●hief , on the crosse , was in great grief ; yet that did not hinder him from honouring christ , nor from minding his own salvation , nor from rebuking his fellow , luke 23. 39. to 43. nor did christs sorrow on the crosse , which was far greater than that thiefs , take him off from minding the future good of his mother , joh. 19. 26. 2. in duty . it turned davids praying , wherein he should have exercised repentance , out of love unto god , into roaring , out of inordinate self love , psal . 32. 3. and it hindred the israelites , in hearing moses , when he spake most comfortably to them , from receiving comfort thereby , exod. 6. 9. it is with the soul , in this case , as it is with the body . vvhen physick works upon the right humour , it carries away that which distempers , without hurting the body . but , if it onely exasperates the distemper , and removes not the cause ; it doth hurt . 3. if your minds are so fixed upon a particular grievance that you cannot be duly thankful for other mercies , nor take comfort in them ; like froward children , that , being crossed in one thing , throw away all the rest . for this joab justly blamed david , though he erred in the manner , because he wept excessively for the death of absalom , and did not rejoyce in the victory , and give thanks to god for it , 2 sam. 19. 1. to 8. ●4 . if it inclines the will to seek ease and comfort , in some un-warrantable , and unsafe way . this is called halting , whereby men are turned out of the way , heb. 12. 12 , 13. 5. if the soul sinks , and faints under it , is wholly subdued by it , so as it cannot bear up it self . this is one of the extreams which wisdom forbids all her children to fall into , and which to forget is a sin , heb. 12. 5. now the exercise of a right hoping in god , is of necessary use , in this case , to moderate sorrow , and to keep it within due bounds . this it doth , especially two wayes . 1. by striking at the root , and weakning the causes of it . 1. if it be for outward losses and crosses , hoping in god raiseth up the soul by looking up to god , and seeing that they are , either from him , as our god in covenant . thus it raised up iob , iob 1. 21. and david , 1 sam. 30. 6. or that they are for god , and for their witnesse-bearing to his truth . this inabled the saints of old , to take joyfully the spoiling of their goods , knowing in themselves that they had in heaven a better , and an enduring substance , heb. 10. 34. 2. if it be from losse of dear relations , and gods displeasure apprehended therein ; this hope will quicken in you godly sorrow , and endeavours to seek reconciliation and peace with god , by repentance and faith in christ , hos . 6. 1. 2. it will purge out inordinate affections to the creatures , 1 ioh. 3. 3. over-grieving for the losse of creature-comforts ariseth from over-joying in creature-contentments . 3. if it be from bodily weaknesse , or sicknesse , or pain , or any distemper , that renders a man unserviceable in his place ; this hope , being rightly exercised , w●ll moderate that sorrow . 1. by bringing a spiritual light into the soul , to prepare it to receive comfort . for the body is compared to an house , and to a garment . hence they can argue , à pari , the more worn and tattered the garment is , the sooner we shall have a new one . so it is with the soul 1 cor. 15. 42 , 43 , 44. and the more crazy and weak the house , or rather , the prison is , the nearer the prisoner is to be delivered from it . so it is with the soul imprisoned in this earthly house of the body , 2 cor. 5. 1. &c. 2. by quickning us unto those duties which such a condition cals for , viz. patience , passive obedience , quitnesse , contentednesse , prayer , &c. psal . 39. 9 , 10. 4. if it be from sin , in our selves , or others , or in our families and near relations ; this hope will be of necessary use to keep the soul from being swallowed up with over-much sorrow . he that grieves for sin , must grieve in hope . for a vexing , discouraging , despairing grief will do no good , but much hurt , as you may see , in ier. 18. 12. and ezek. 33. 10 , 11. but that sorrow for sin which is accompanied with hope of mercy , quickneth to prayer of faith , iob 7. 20. and to reformation , ezra 10. 2 , 3 5. if it be from an apprehension that god is your enemy , and fighteth against you , as he is and doth sometimes , isa . 63. 10. this hope is of necessary use ; whether your apprehension be right , or wrong . if it be so indeed , it will quicken you to make all speed to be reconciled unto god , in christ . hereunto this hope encourageth : 1. from the mercy and grace of god in forgiving repenting sinners , psal . 130. 4. 2. from his willingnesse to deal so with you , declared sundry wayes . 1. by sending his son to make attonement for lost sinners . 2. by sending his embassadours to beseech you to be reconciled unto him , 2 cor. 5. 19 , 20. 3. by his never refusing rebels , that sought his favour in christ , upon gospel terms . 4. by his commanding us to forgive such as repent , though they have sinned against us unto seventy times seven times ; and himself will not be behind us in mercy and kindnesse . 2. but if it be not so indeed ; if god be not our enemy ; this hope will awe the soul from wronging god , by our mis-apprehensions . it is an injury to a man , that is our friend , and hath approved himself so to be , by many kindnesses , if we should charge him with enmity , and say to him , you do not love me , you hate me , you are mine enemy , when you cannot prove it . hoping in god will arme the soul against such conclusions , by former experiences of sundry effects of gods favour towards you , in pardoning some sins , subduing some lusts , healing some distempers , scattering some temptations , working some spiritual good in you ; as , faith in the lord jesus , and love to all the saints , granting some prayers . say not , i know not , whether god hath done thus , in mercy and favour toward me , and whether he will continue them unto me , or not ; for these are covenant mercies ; and therefore sure mercies , even the sure mercies of david , isa . 55. 3. every answer of prayer , every gift of grace , that makes the more prayerful , humble , watchful , thankful , serviceable ▪ to god and man , that leads the soul to god , in christ , is from his fatherly goodnesse and love to thee in christ . say not , if god were my father , i should see his face , but he hides his face from me ; for that doth not alwayes follow . sometimes children are infants , and know not their father , though he acts for them , as a father . sometimes grown children see not their father , many years together , yet rest in his fatherly love and care for them . so god will have his stronger children , many times , to walk by faith and not by light , 2 cor. 5. 7. sometimes the child , being forth at school , or at prentiship , desireth earnestly to come home and see his father , but the father sees it to be in ●●●dient , at that time , to grant his request . but he will send him a letter , a 〈◊〉 , a messenger , or some friend to visit him , he shall see him , in them , not in his person . so god deals , many times , with his children , who desire to see his face , to have sensi●le demonstrations of his favour and love to them . they shall see him , in his letters the scriptures , and the promises , or in some token of his love , some strength in their souls ▪ psal . 138. 3. or , in some messenger , job 33. 23. whom he sends to comfort them , and his spirit to quicken and strengthen them to wait upon him . object . but where the spirit is , there are the fruits of the spirit , and , among the rest , joy , gal. 5. 22. which i want . answ . 1. take a believer , at the worst , he hath that joy which he would not part with , in exchange , for the jocondnesse of worldly men . 2. he hath true joy , through faith , even when he is in heavinesse , for a time , 1 pet. 1. 8. he hath it , in the root , when it doth not sprout forth in leaves , because it is winter with him . he who desires spiritual joy , and grives for the want of it , hath true joy , in some degree ; as that man , from faith , bewailed his unbelief , mark 9. 24. the second way , whereby this hope boundeth and moderateth sorrow , is , by strengthening the soul to stick to right g●ounds of true comfort , to maintain their joy in god , through our lord jesus christ , as their portion , not yielding up their purse to every thief , nor suffering themselves to be wrangled out of their right in it . if excessive sorrow begins to seize upon the soul of a believer ; this hope will 1. quicken him to examine its commission , by parlying with his soul , and enquiring whether there be good reason , a sufficient cause , for it , or not , as david did , in psal . 42. 5. 11. and 43. 5. why art thou cast down , o my soul , &c. for sometimes your sorrow is causelesse , and groundlesse , and commonly it is so : 1. when it is boundlesse . for reason will set bounds unto grief , but mistakes , and mis-apprehensions , know no bounds . 2. when it is plea-lesse , being tried at the bar of right reason , or of the judgment of those who are godly-wise . job in a passion , challenged god himself to dispute , and gives him his choise , whether he will oppose , or answer , he will be for him , and fill his mouth with arguments , and doubts not that he shall carry the cause . but , when god appeared , and spake to him , jobs passion vanished , and his courage failed , and he confessed that he had spoken foolishly , and would now lay his hand upon his mouth . compare job 23. 3 , 4 , 5. with chap. 40. 4 , 5. and ch. 42. 2 , 3 , 4 , 5 , 6. so sometimes a dejected discouraged christian thinks he hath so much to say against his comfort , as will put to silence the best and ablest ministers . but when any judicious minister , or experienced christian , comes to him , he hath either nothing to say , or nothing of weight , but what is full of errour and mistakes . say therefore to your felves , in this case , as god did to ionah , doest thou well to be angry ? do i well to be thus dejected ? 2. if there be cause for sorrow : 1. examine , whether it be sufficient to justifie such a measure or degree of sorrow , or not . that sorrow , which drives the soul from god , which indisposeth it to prayer , thanks-giving , to the duties of his calling , to works of mercy and love , that makes him lumpish , harsh , passionate , that sowres and distempers his spirit , is excessive and immoderate . 2. examine from what topicks the arguments are fetched , that are used to justifie such a degree of sorrow . the soul of man should not be subjected to sense and feeling , or to any way of reasoning , but that which is from and according to the word of god. to argue , that you have no faith , because you are full of doubting , that you have no grace , because you have strong corruptions , is to offend against the generation of gods children , psal . 73. 15. the vanity whereof asaph saw , when he went into the sanctuary of god. so will you , if you consult the scriptures . 3. fly to the god of all comfort , 2 cor. 1. 3. first issue that great question , am i gods child , or not ? if not ; rest not in that state , but hasten out of it . if yea , and thou art so , if thou hast his image ; then set faith on work : 1. upon gods all sufficiency , and fetch all from heaven , which thou wantest on earth . 2. upon his efficiency : 1. recal to mind what he hath done for thee in times past , as asaph did , in psal . 77. 5 , 6. 2. for the future ; rest on his bare word , and promise , which shewes what he will do . account that to be thine , which thou hast in grant by the promise , as david did , psal . 60. 7. god hath spoken in his holinesse , i will rejoice , &c. gilead is mine , &c. thus apply what christ saith , in mat. 5. 3 , 4. 5. and the scripture every where . 3. for the present ; consider what god doth for thee . doth he support thee , that thou sinkest not under despair ? doth he keep thee in patience , and submission to his will by 〈◊〉 ? doth he quicken thee to use all good means , with waiting upon him ? give him the glory of his grace , and be encouraged to spread before him , in prayer , all thy doubts , thy fea●s , thy temptations , and wants , phil ▪ 4. 6. and , with prayer , joyn hoping in him , and waiting on him . say , ●here is mercy in him , to pity ; and power in him , to help ; though i find no comfort , yet , i hope , i shall ; though my prayers be not yet answered ; i hope they will be , in the best season , and i will wait on god , till he doth answer them . if yet comfort come not ; improve the communion of saints , and the publick ordinances , as david , i will hearken what at god the lord will speak , psal . 85. 8. use men and means , but let your hope be fixed upon god onely , look to him for comfort , who creates the fruits of the lips , peace , isa . 57. 19. use the communion of the saints , in private also ; but so , as waiting for his manifesting himself to your soul , as the church found he did , in cant. 5. 8. and 6. 3. and , if thou canst not find out what particular hinders thy comfort , do as men use to do for their bodies , when the distemper is general , who make an issue , to draw the matter to some head ; pitch upon some particular sin , to which thou art most subject , by natural inclination , or by thy calling , or company , or the condition of the times , and let out the corruption that may . begin repentance there , and joyn with it faith in the blood of christ , and so seek reconciliation with god , and comfort thereby . in thus doing , wait on god , till he satisfie thy thirsty soul , who hath promised , that they , who wait on the lord , shall renew their strength ; they shall mount up upon wings , as eagles ; they shall run , and not be weary , and they shall walk , and not faint , isa . 40. 31. the second case , whereon believers are called to exercise this hope , in their personal concernments , is , in reference to the time past , the seeming frustration and disappointment of their former expectations . for , having prayed and waited for the good desired , yet they have not o●tained it . and many , when they have given up their names unto christ , looked for peace , prosperity , and good dayes , but find troubles , crosses and afflictions of sundry kinds ; this much disquieteth , and sometimes discourageth their spirits . hence , they are apt to complain , with the church , in jer. 8. 15. we looked for peace , but no good came , and for a time of health , and behold trouble ; and , to conclude , as they did , in isa . 49. 14. zion said , the lord hath forsaken me , and my lord hath forgotten me . in this case , that may be made for a right exercise of hoping in god , i shall distinguish the subjects of it . 1. there are some , whom god forsakes really . 1. such as forsake god. if ye forsake him , he will forsake you , 2 chron. 15. 2. this is the condition of all apostates , that depart from the rules of gods worship , and the churches of the saints , embracing and following worldly policies and advantages . 2. such as seem to seek god , but rest in outward performances without inward sincerity and spiritualnesse , and trust in their parts and gifts , and duties , not in christ , for acceptance with god. this is the condition of all hypocrites , who sin and pray , and pray and sin , without true repentance , yet think to be accepted of god for the things they do in religion outwardly , of such the lord saith , in hos . 5. 6. they shall go with their flock●● and with their heards to seek the lord ; but they shall not find him ▪ he hath with-drawn himself from them . 3. such as abuse the mercies they have received , and yet presume that mercies shall be still continued and added , though they go on in their impenitency . this is the condition of all obstinate , hard-hearted sinners . these may receive their doom from that which the lord denounced against israel , in hos . 1. 6. call her name lo-ruhamah ; for i will not adde any more to shew mercy to them . as if 〈◊〉 had said , they have received many mercies from me , but they abuse the● all , and presume that they shall receive more mercies from me : but 〈◊〉 shall not be so . i will not adde any more . of all these and the like , the apostle saith , they are without christ ▪ without god , and without hope , eph. 2. 12. therefore i have no more to say to them , in this point . 2. there are others , whom god doth not forsake , really , but onely seemingly , and that , but in some respect , and , but for a time . and that he is present with them graciously , when they think he hath forsaken them , appeareth by his efficacy in them . 1. that he quickens them to seek him in the use of all means , psal . 9. 10. for thou , lord , hast not forsaken them that seek thee . 2. that they seek him , as their portion , as their chief good , without injoyment of whom nothing will satisfie them . this is from the efficacy of his grace in them , as it was in the spouse , cant. 5. 4 , 5 , 6 , 8 , 10. 3. that gods with-drawing from them , in any degree , makes them fearful of his forsaking them utterly , and , for prevention thereof , careful to engage themselves to obey him more perfectly . thus it wrought in david , psal . 119. 8. i will keep thy statutes , o forsake me not utterly ! these are the persons , who are called to exercise hope in god , in this case . to instruct them how to perform this great duty aright , i shall propound five directions . 1. direction . make it clear unto your own souls , that you have a good ground of hope . see that your faith in god is right . for this hope is the daughter of faith . and , if you are in the dark , as to present sight of your good estate ; consider whether formerly , when you had a clear light , you then knew that your soul said , the lord is my portion . for it may be , at sometimes , with a true believer , spiritually , as it was with eutychus , bodily , in acts 20. 10. that , though life is in him , yet he hath not the sense of it . then , though gods face is towards him , yet he complains that he hath long hid his face from him ; as david did , in psal . 13. 1. and , if his ministers speak comfortably to him ; it is with him as it was with the people of israel , when moses spake as comfortably unto them as at any time , but they hearkened not unto moses for anguish of heart , exod. 6. 9. and , when he remembers god , he is troubled , and complaineth , and his spirit is over-whelmed , as asaph found , in psal . 77. 3. in this case , faith it self must be helped , by reflecting upon former experience . this course asaph took , and found relief by it , ibid. ver . 5 , 6. so a believer having called to mind form 〈◊〉 passages ▪ betweeen , god and his soul , when he made diligent search , and upon tryal of his estate toward god , by scripture light , found it to be good ▪ hath good ground to hope in god , that it is so still , and that it will so continue for ever , and that from the sure word of god in the scripture , which ass●●●s us tha● gods drawing us to himself , in christ , is from his everlasting love , ier. 31. 3. and that christ , having loved his own , which are in the world , loveth them unto the end , ioh. 13. 1. and that the gifts and callings of god are without repentance , rom. 11. 29. as a man , who hath deliberately cast up his accounts , and summed up the particulars exactly , when he took a fit season for it ; if afterward , when being sick , or in some hurry of businesse , he is not fit to review the particulars , he be demanded how the accounts stand , he will refer himself to the foot of his account , in a certain perswasion that it is right ; so a believer , being under temptations and seeming desertion , may , and should exercise this hoping in god , and hath good ground so to do , from what he formerly found , when he diligently searched into particulars , though now he cannot call them to mind . or , as a woman with child , having felt it stir in her womb , knowes thereby that she hath been quickened , and conceived , and hath thereby comforting hope that it will go on , though she doth not alwayes feel it stir : so 〈◊〉 is , in this case , and much rather , for that conception may die , and the woman may miscarry ; but so canno● the regenerate , being born again● not of corruptible seed , but of incorruptible , by the word of god , which liveth and abideth for ever , 1 pet. 1. 23. 2. direction . when thus the ground of hope is cleared to be good , and way is made for the excercise of it ; then let it be exercised , in its purging work . this is the first use , wherein hope is to be improved , in this case . for , every man that hath this hope in him , purifieth himself , even as christ is pure , 1 joh. 3. 3. else , that which now hindreth your comfort and peace , will hinder them , till it be taken away . sin is the great impediment of all our good . this therefore must be the first work of this hope , the purging away of sin . therefore the church in my text , took that course : saying , let us search and try our wayes , and turn again to the lord , ver . 40. do ye the like , in a like case , and , that you may do so , follow these directions . 1. pray the lord to shew wherefore he contendeth with you , iob 10. 2. with purpose of heart to forsake whatever sin provoketh him to anger . this was elihu's counsel to iob. surely , saith he , it is meet to be said unto god , i have born chastisement , i will not offend . that which i see not , teach thou me ; if i have done iniquity , i will do no more . iob 34. 31 , 32. pray him also , to shew you what he would have you to do , as david prayed , in psal . 86. 11. teach me thy way , o lord , i will walk in thy truth ; unite my heart to fear thy name ! pray him , that as he sends afflictions , so he would supply grace , that you may profit by them . fo● he is the lord our god , the holy one of israel , our redeemer , that teacheth us to profit . isa . 48. 17. repenting ephraim found the benefit of this course . god took notice of them bemoaning themselves , with confession of their former unsubduednesse to gods will and yoak , and of their prayer , turn thou me , and i shall be turned , thou art the lord my god , jer. 31. 18. what benefit had ephraim hereby ? they tell that , in ver . 19. surely after i was turned , i repented and , after that i was instructed . i smote upon my thigh , &c. 2. having thus done , search the scripture , and your own hearts , to find out the particular sin , or sins , which have brought this affliction upon you , or which do hinder the exercising of your hope . 1. to find out the particular sin or sins , which have brought the affliction upon you ; consider , 1. for what sins god hath threatned , in his word , or inflicted upon others , such judgments as are upon you , ezek. 12. 25. jer. 26. 4 , 5 , 6. zeph. 3. 6 , 7. 2. how you have abused those things wherein or wherby god afflicteth you . eli , and david were too indulgent to their children , and were punished in them and by them . israel abused the corn and wine , the wool and flax , the silver and gold that god had given them . therefore god took them away , hos . 2. 8 , 9. god caused the land to keep the sabbaths , while the jews were in captivity , for their not sanctifying the sabbaths , in their own land . and for their lightly esteeming the word preached unto them , the lord brought a famine of the word upon them , amos 8. 11. there is now much sicknesse and mortality among us , did you not mis-spend your time , and strength , in the dayes of your health ? sundry are restrained from the publick ordinances ; is it not , because they have disregarded them , or been unfruitful and unprofitable under them ? 3. search , if you have not been faulty towards others , in the things you now suffer your selves . they that spoiled and dealt treacherously with others , shall be spoiled and dealt treacherously with themselves , isa 33. 1. he that leadeth into captivity , shall go into captivity ; he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword , rev. 13. 10. he shall have judgment without mercy that hath shewed no mercy , jam. 2. 13. do others wrong you , in your names , in your estates , in any of their dealings with you ? consider , how you have wronged others . are others helplesse and hard-hearted towards you , in your afflictions ? if upon search you find , that you have been so to others , give god the glory of his righteousnesse , saying , with adonibesek , as i have done , so hath god requited me , judg. 1. 7. 4. if you have not profited by afflictions formerly upon you ; you may justly suspect that he reneweth , and , it may be , increaseth your afflictions , for that cause . for so the lord threatned his people of old , if ye will not for all this ( viz. former lesser punishments inflicted on you ) hearken unto me , then will i punish you seven times more for your sins , lev. 26. 18. and the same he repeats again and again , four or five times , in that chapter . and he did accordingly , when the people of israel turned not unto him that smote them , the prophet told them , for all this , his anger is not turned away , but his hand is stretched out still , isa . 9. 12. and it is thrice repeated , in that chapter . so hath the lord dealt with us , in this place ; for sundry years past , he hath visited us with returns of sicknesses , every following year sharper than the former ; because whatever purposes men and women had , and whatever promises they made , when gods hand was upon them , all wore off and came to nothing , after he had released them : so that we , in this wildernesse , may be justly charged for dealing with god , as the people of israel did in the wildernesse , and have cause to expect , as they found from the most high , psal . 78. 32. to 38. in this case , god dealeth with his people , as physitians are wont to do with their patients , upon whom when they find that the physick formerly given doth not work , they second it with some stronger purge ; and , when they find that the disease is so setled , that quicker courses are not effectual ; they prescribe a course of longer continuance . 5. search , to find out your own special corruptions ; the sinnes of your nature , whereunto you are naturally , that is , by your natural constitutions , more addicted and inclined , then unto other ; the fins of your callings , that is , such as whereunto , by occasion of your place and vocation , or your course of life and conversation , you may have more and more frequent occasions of , and greater and stronger inducements , and inticements to , then others , and the sins of the times and places in which you live . this course david took , and thereby proved that he was upright before god , psal . 18. 23. 6. call to mind of what sins you have been formerly admonished and convinced , publikely , by the ministers of the word , or privately , by godly friends , and others ; or secretly , by the motions of gods spirit , and checks of your own consciences , but have not repented of them , nor turned from them . for it is gods manner , to open the ears of men , and to seal instructions by afflictions , as elihu told job , though he mis-applyed it to his case . iob 33. 14. to 30. 2. having found out the particular causes for which god contendeth with you ; add thereunto another search , to find out those sins which hinder the exercise of this hope more directly and immediately ; as , 1. your aptnesse to have hard thoughts of god. this is very injurious and dishonourable to god , and therefore he frequently in scripture expostulateth with and complaineth of his people for it : as you may see in ier. 2. 31. ezek. 33. 10 , 11. mich. 6. 1 , 2 , 3. david found out this evil , in himself , and repented of it ; as you may see , in psal . 31. 22. and 116. 11 , 12. 2. your aptnesse to be short spirited with god , which is contrary to the waiting of hope . this greatly incensed the wrath of god against his people of old , of whom it is said , in psal . 78. 40 , 41. how often did they provoke him , in the wildernesse , and grieve him in the desart ? yea , they turned back , and tempted god , and limited the holy one of israel . so do all they , whose hoping in god ceaseth , if he do not grant them the particular thing which they expect , and in their time , and by their means . 3. your unwarranted expectations of good , without mixture of any evil ; of peace , without trouble ; of health , without sicknesse ; of ease , without pain ; of joy , without sorrow ; of prosperous successes , without crosses ; which god hath no where promised ; but hath fore-told the contrary every where in his word ; that he will visit our transgression with the rod , and our iniquities with stripes , psal . 89. 32. and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of god , acts 14. 22. and that whom the lord loveth he chasteneth , and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth , heb. 12. 6. and the reason why christ foretold these things , is , that , when they come to passe , we might not be offended , as himself saith , in ioh. 16. 1. and , that , when the time shall come , we may remember that he told us of them , as he saith , in ver . 4. 4. your aptnesse to be slight spirited and carelesse in retaining the favour of god , and in maintaining the workings of his spirit in you . the former , the church found in themselves and confessed , in isa . 64. 7. there is none that calleth upon thy name , that stirreth up himself to take hold of thee . for the later , the lord reproveth the church of ephesus , though he took notice of many good things in them , and done by them : neverthelesse , he tels them , that he hath this against them , that they had left their first love , rev. 2. 2 , 3 , 4. and commands them , remember therefore from whence thou art fallen , and repent , and do thy first works : else i will come unto thee quickly , &c. ver . 5. 5. be humbled for , and repent of your frustrating of gods expectations , as the great provocation of god to dis-appoint your expectations . consider , to this end , what god hath done for us , and therefore doth expect from us , in that which the lord said concerning the house of israel , in isa . 5. 4 , 5. and let us fear lest our unfruitfulnesse , unprofitablenesse , and un-answerablenesse to the means and mercies received incense his wrath and jealousie against us more then against others , for whom he hath not done so much , as he hath done for us . for so he determined concerning israel ; you onely have i known of all the families of the earth ; therefore i will visit upon you all your iniquities , amos 3. 2. 2. having thus searched and tried your wayes ; the next duty is , to turn again to the lord , with unfeigned repentance , and faith in the blood of christ , and amendment of life . this was the fruit of davids considering his wayes , his turning his feet unto gods testimonies , psal . 119. 59. else you do but , as if a wounded man should cry to the chyrurgeon for ease of his pain , but will not endure to have the arrow head , or splinter , that sticks in his flesh , plucked out . if i regard iniquity in my heart , said david , the lord will not hear my prayers , psal . 66. 18. and the people of israel found that , when they did evil as they could , and cast off the thing that is good , and yet prayed unto god , as their god , he would not own them , nor accept their prayers , but upbraided them with their sins ; as you may see , in jer. 3. 4 , 5. hos . 8. 2 , 3. therefore the church in my text took a right course to strengthen their hope in god , when they resolved upon this order , first to search and try their wayes and turn again to the lord , and , after that , to lift up their hearts , with their hands unto god in the heavens , lam. 3. 40 , 41. these things being done , that your hope may act aright . 3. the third direction , which is to be attended , that you may exercise this hope , is to use this hope aright in its second work , for encouragement , by your cherishing in your selves good thoughts of gods good purposes towards you , and expectation of good from god suitable to your needs : hereunto the lord encouraged the repenting jews , in their captivity in bayblon , jer. 29. 11. to 15. having promised them that , at the time appointed , he would visit them and perform his good towards them , in causing them to return , he acquainted them with his good thoughts towards them , as the reason of it , and what he would work in them , to fit them for that mercy ; saying , for i know the thoughts that i think towards you , saith the lord , thoughts of peace , and not of evil , to give you an expected end . then shall ye call upon me , and ye shall go , and pray unto me , and ye shall seek me , and find me , when ye shall search for me with all your hearts , &c. do not conclude concerning gods thoughts towards you , by present sense and feeling , but by his own word . therefore david resolved to hearken to what god the lord saith , not to what carnal reason and sense would say , and the reason of his so resolving is drawn from the expectation of his hope ; for he will speak peace unto his people , and to his saints , psal . 85. 8. and his expectation so grounded , was so strong , that he pleaded it with god , saying , in psal . 119. 49 , 50. remember thy word unto thy servant , upon which thou hast caused me to hope . this is my comfort in my affliction , for thy word hath quickened me . and well may believers be strengthened in this hope , having it built upon so firm a foundation , as the word of god concerning which david saith , in the same psal . ver . 89 , 90. for ever o lord , thy word is setled in heaven . thy saithfulnesse is unto all generations ; thou hast established the earth and it abideth . how is the earth established ? we see , if you cast the least stone upwards in the aire , it abideth not there , but soon fals down to the earth ; yet the earth it self , though it is an huge , vast , heavy body , abideth in the air , wherewith it is surrounded , and wherein it hangeth . how is this done ? it hath no pillars to hold it up , but the decree and word of that mighty god , who upholdeth all things by the word of his power , heb. 1. 3. his power accompanying his word upholdeth the earth in the middest of the air , and shall it not support our hearts , in the middest of all temptations ? if the greatnesse of your former sins , of which you have now repented , dismay you ; remember what the word of the lord saith , in isa . 55. 7. let the wicked forsake his way , and the unrighteous man his thoughts ; and let him return unto the lord , and he will have mercy upon him , and to our god , for he will multiply to pardon . say not , i cannot think that god can have any good purposes and thoughts toward such a sinful wretch and rebel , as i have been . for , to prevent this , the lord addeth , in ver . 8 , 9. my thoughts are not your thoughts , neither are your waies my waies , saith the lord. for as the heavens are higher than the earth , so are my maies higher then your waies , and my thoughts then your thoughts . if the lord , in the time of your distresse , bring to your remembrance sins formerly , many years past , committed by you , but not repented of , look at it , as an instruction , which he joyneth with correction , to awaken you to repentance , as he did josephs brethren , when they were committed to prison , gen. 42. 21. but , if sins committed before your calling , or since , but repented of , be set before you ; do not think that they are unpardoned , or that the pardon is revoked , or that god doth it to upbraid you with them . god can , for holy and good ends , read over to his servants old bils of debt , which yet are cancelled , to humble them , and to make them more thankful , and more watchful . thus he made job possesse the sins of his youth , iob 13. 26. and if the lord defer the full and satisfying manifestation of his favour to you , after you have repented ; do not impute that dispensation to his not forgiving your sins , but to his fatherly wisdom and love , to excite you thereby to perfect your repentance unto the full mortifying of your sins . as david dealt with absalom , whom , though his heart was towards him , and , as a token thereof , he sent for him to return to ierusalem , yet he let him not see his face , for two years after his return , 2 sam. 14. 14 , 28. so the lord dealt with david , he pardoned his sin . 2 sam. 12. 13. yet with-held joy and gladnesse from him , till he had more thorowly repented , and fervently prayed that he would restore to him the joy of his salvation , psal . 57. the fourth direction , is in reference to gods delayes ; if yet you find not the good you seek then , exercise your hope in its third work , which is , waiting upon god. hereunto the lord encouraged his people in captivity , by a vision , concerning their deliverance , which the prophet habbakuk received from god , and of which the lord said , the vision is yet for an appointed time , but at the end it shall speak , and not lie ; though it tarry , wait for it , because it will surely come , it will not tarry , hab : 2. 3. set down this for a concluded truth , which every true believer may rest upon , that , the lord will not cast off for ever , but , though he cause grief , yet will he have compassion according to the multitude of his mercies , lam. 3. 31 , 32. and , that he may do so , he waiteth for a fit season . for he is a god of judgment , as isaiah saith , in isa . 30. 18. therefore will the lord wait , that he may be gracious unto you , and therefore will he be exalted , that he may have mercy upon you . for iehovah is a god of judgment . blessed are all they that wait for him . the lord waits for a time , wherein he shall be exalted in being gracious unto his people . that time is the time of their renewed repentance and conversion unto god , as to the most high. then god will have the highest place in their hearts . pray that this may be wrought in you , and that thereby you may be fitted for the good you hope for , and wait for it , till gods time comes . for all they are blessed that wait for him . they are now blessed in their state , and they shall be blessed in their injoymens . in the mean time , they that wait upon the lord , shall renew their strength ; they shall mount up with wings as eagles , they shall run , and not be weary ; they shall walk , and not faint . isa . 40. 31. the fifth direction is , in reference to afflictions continuing upon you ; while god delayes his bestowing the good you wait for ; exercise your hope in its fourth work , which is patience . wait with patience , for , if we hope for that we see not , then do we with patience wait for it , rom. 8. 25. it is christs precept , in your patience possesse your souls , luke 21. 19. as faith gives us the possession of christ , so patience gives us the possession , first , of our selves , and , then , of all good things . let patience have its perfect work , saith the apostle , iam. 1. 4. this it hath two wayes : 1. when it puts forth perfect acts , whereunto it ariseth by certain steps . the first is a silent submission , with a voluntary resignation of our selves to the will of god. so david did , and said , i opened not my mouth , because it was thy doing , psal . 39. 9. the second is , a thankful acceptation of the affliction , with , as it were , a kissing of the rod , where-with our heavenly father correcteth us . this is that , which , in a soul truly humble , is called the accepting of the punishment of his sin , lev. 26. 41. unto this step iobs patience ascended , who said , when he had lost all his creature-possessions , the lord hath given , and the lord hath taken , and blessed be the name of the lord , iob 1. 21. the third , and highest step , is , to count it all joy , when ye fall into divers temptations , iam. 1. 2. this is the highest step , for perfecting the actings of patience : therefore he addeth to that , let patience have its perfect work , to shew that then it hath it . the second way whereby patience comes to have its perfect work , is , when patience perseveres in acting . the good ground , saith christ , is the honest and good heart , that brings forth fruit with patience , luke 8. 15. where 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , signifies both patience and perseverance . it is not sufficient to be patient in some troubles , but it must be exercised in all ; nor , at sometimes onely , but alwayes ; and then onely and not else , patience hath its perfect work , and when patience hath its perfect work , then every grace hath its perfect work . the third case , wherein we are to be instructed , how to exercise this hope aright , in our private and personal concernments , is , in reference to the times future . when fears of evils to come disquiet mens minds and hearts , many secret mis-givings of heart are ●ncident even to true believers , by reason of the flesh remaining in them , in part , that sundry outward afflictions , by crosses , or losses of dearest relations , or of the means of outward subsistence , or of liberty , or of life , may befal them : or inward temptations and sins may prevail against them ; which fears do usually dis-sweeten to them present mercies , and accordingly hinder their thankfulnesse to god for them . therefore the instruction is of great importance , and of continual use , which we are now upon . for the more distinct handling whereof i shall endeavour to clear two things . 1. something concerning such fears . 2. how this hope is to be exercised about them . 1. for the first . fear is an affliction acted and exercised upon the apprehension of some impendent and approaching evil . this fear is , sometimes culpable , sometimes commendable . 1. fear is culpable , and a sin , when it is opposite to trusting in god , of this salomon saith ; the fear of man bringeth a snare ; but who so trusteth in the law shall be set on high , prov. 29. 5. he shall be set above the reach of snares , and so be safe . this fear may be known by three characters . 1. by its rise , when it ariseth from distrust in gods promises and providence . this is an habitual , ruling , distemper in all natural men ; it is not so in the regenerate ; yet , by the strength of temptation , and the flesh , in them , it sometimes prevailes actually . hence david discovered a suddain perturbation of his mind , by unadvised speeches , which were dishonourable to god , when he said , i shall perish one day by the hand of saul , 1 sam. 27. 1. and , i said in my hast all men are liars , psal . 116. 11. 2. by its immediate object ; whether , it be sin , or trouble . 1. fear least they should hereafter fall into such or such a sin , fixeth their thoughts upon sin , and insnares them in sin . it is very dangerous to propound to a mans self any thought of sin , as sin , especially , of the materials of sin . for such is mans weaknesse , and satans subtilty , that the contemplation of sin in the thoughts , though it be not done with any intent to commit it , but to avoid it , defiles the soul , before men are aware . for sin is a defiler , and leaves a stain behind it , whereby thoughts of sin soon become sinful thoughts , and the speculation of sin fals into speculative acting sin . hereof the apostle iames warneth us , in iam. 1. 14. saying , every man is tempted , when he is drawn aside of his own lust , and enticed . then , when lust hath conceived , it bringeth forth sin , &c. 2. fear of future troubles and sufferings , arising from fore-thinking them , becomes blame-worthy , three wayes . 1. when they imagine such as are never likely to befal them , and are disquieted with fears of them . this is to fear shadowes ; which argueth weaknesse in the judgment , or guilt in the conscience . that may be said to such truly , which zebul spake to gaal skoffingly ; thou seest the shadows of the mountains , as if they were men , judg. 9. 36. it is threatned for a punishment upon sinners , in lev. 26. 36. aud executed upon them , in prov. 28. 1. 2. when they think of future evils , which are but possible , and , at the most , but probable , with such terror , as if they were certain and inevitable ; and so give certain strength to an uncertain crosse . this god reproveth , in isa . 57. 11. 3. when they multiply and magnifie evils , that are to be expected as certainly future , above their dueproportion , and so fear lesser evils , as if they were the greatest evils . christ warned his disciples of this , in mat. 10. 28. the third character of such fears , is the evil effects of them . 1. bondage , which is contrary to faith , rom. 8. 15. 2. torment , which is contrary to love , 1 joh. 4. 8. 3. discouragement , from using good means for the prevention of the thing feared . hence the distrustful jews rejected the prophets exhortation to conversion ; saying , if our transgression , and our sins be upon us , and we pine away in them ; how should we then live , ezek. 33. 10. 4. venturing upon the use of unwarranted means to avoid the thing feared ; whereby they bring it upon themselves . thus saul , fearing that , if david lived , his posterity should not succeed him in the throne , sought to kill him ; and the sanhedrim fearing that , if christ were let alone , all men would believe in him , and the romans would come , and take away both their place and nation ; concluded , that christ must be put to death . both brought upon themselves that which they feared , by the wrath of god against them , for using ill means to avoid it . according to gods threatning denounced against all such , in prov. 10. 24. the fear of the wicked shall come upon him . 2. fear is commendable , and good , and our duty , when it hath hope in gods mercy joyned inseperably with it . of this fear david saith , behold , the eye of the lord is upon them that fear him , upon them that hope in his mercy , psal . 33. 18. again , the lord taketh pleasure in them that fear him ; in those that hope in his mercy , psal . 147. 11. this ●●lial reverential fear of god may be known by three characters . 1. by the rise of it ; it ariseth from faith . by faith noah moved with fear prepared an ark , heb. 11. 7. 2. by the direct and immediate object of it , which is god himself . this was so eminent in izhack , that god hath a denomination from izhacks fear of him , he is called the fear of izhack , gen. 31. 53. when others fear men , fear poverty , fear disgrace , a believer feareth god , the majesty , authority , power of the great god is strong upon his heart . this makes him careful to worship god , according to his revealed will , and to walk uprightly before god , to honour , serve , and please him in his whole conversation , and to seek the face of god in jesus christ . 3. by its effects , which are such as these : 1. it keeps from carnal security , and placing our rest and contentment in worldly things . thus it wrought in job , whilest he lived in outward prosperity . therefore he said , in his affliction ; the thing that i greatly feared is come unto me . i was not in safety , neither had i rest , neither was i quiet , job 3. 25 , 26. and from trusting in spiritual priviledges and graces received ; whereof paul warneth all gentile-christians , saying ; be not high minded , but fear , rom. 11. 20. 2. it makes men careful to avoid what might provoke god against them , and bring on them the evil feared . hence they fear and avoid sin , as a deadly snare . the fear of the lord , is a well-spring of life , to depart from the snares of death , prov. 14. 27. 2. hardnesse of heart , as a mischievous evil , prov. 28. 14. blessed is the man that feareth alwayes , but he that hardneth his heart , shall fall into mischief . 3. departing from god , so saith god , i will put my fear in their hearts , that they shall not depart from me , jer. 32. 46. 3. this fear quickens to use all good means to sense our selves against future evils ; as fear of an inundation causeth men to raise banks , for keeping out the sea , and , if a breach be made ; to repair it speedily . thus this fear wrought in jacob , when esau came out against him ; and in noah , to provide against the deluge ; and in those aegyptians , to keep themselves and their cattle in their houses , to escape the storm , which moses fore-told would kill all that were in the field . the more we are prepared , by this fear , for afflictions , before they come , the lesse we shall be oppressed with them , when they come . for thereby , either afflictions shall be weakned , and lesse able to hurt us , or we shall be strengthened , and more able to bear them . now , this hope , whereof we speak , being rightly excercised , will be of great efficacy , to quicken good fear , and to subdue sinful fear in us . therefore , i shall endeavour to shew you how you may excercise this hope aright , in four directions . 1. lay a sure ground-work for this hope to be built upon . this is then done , when you know that your soul saith , the lord is your portion . for , 1. this will assure your interest in god himself , who is an all-sufficient portion . when you can say , with david , the lord is the portion of mine inheritance and of my cup , psal . 16. 5. you may comfortably adde , as he did , in ver . 6. the lines are fallen unto me in pleasant places : yea , i have a goodly heritage . 2. this will cause you to cleave to the lord with purpose of heart , as barnabas exhorted the antiochians to do , in acts 11. 23. for where a mans treasure is , there will his heart be also , mat. 6. 21. as the needle in the compasse , being touched with the load-stone , is in continual motion , till it points to the north ; the reason whereof , some conceive , is , because in the north are rocks of load-stone , with which the needle so touched hath a sympathy : so the soul being touched by the spirit of faith , is in continual motion , till it points unto god in christ , that living rock and true load-stone , who draws believers to him by a spiritual sympathy which they have with him ; as he said in ioh. 12. 32. i , if i be lifted up from the earth , will draw all men unto me . then , and not before , they have true rest . then they may say with david , return unto thy rest , o my soul ! psal . 116. 7. 3. this will settle and strengthen your hearts against all distracting , discouraging , distrustful fears about future evils . for , things to come are yours , when you are christs , 1 cor. 3. 22 , 23. the worst that can be-fall you , shall not loose that blessed union that is between god in christ and your souls . not sin past , for that is already pardoned ; and therefore shall not condemn you hereafter , rom. 8. 1. nor shall sin to come , have dominion over you , rom. 6. 14. for you are kept by the power of god , through faith , unto salvation , 1 pet. 1. 5. nor death , though it may separate two neer friends , the soul and body ; yet it shall joyn together more fully and perfectly two better friends , christ and the soul , which , when it is absent from the body , is present with the lord , 2 cor. 5. 8. and , in the resurrection , when both shall be reunited , we shall be for ever with the lord , 1 thess . 4. 17. nor temptations ; see how paul triumphed over all principalities and powers , over life and death , over things present and to come , in assurance that nothing should separate him , or any true believer , from the love of god in christ jesus , rom. 8. 38 , 39. yea , that all things should work for his & their good , rom. 8. 28. a believer in christ is as sure of the time to come , as he is of the time presentor past . for he can say , with the church , in ps . 48. ult . this god is our god , and he will be our guid unto death ; and can look unto christ , as alpha and omega , the beginning and the ending , which is and which was , and which is to come , the almighty , rev. 1. 8. and he hath the promises of god in christ for the future , isa . 46. 3 , 4. joh. 10. 27 , 28 , 29. 2. this ground work being well laid , build upon it , for the future , by excersing this hope , 1. in its purging work , 1 joh. 3. 3. to purge out inordinate affection , whereby the soul cleaves close and fast to present things and creatures , whence , they are as affraid to part with them , as one is to have a piece of linnen cloth or plaister plucked off from an ulcerous sore , whereunto it sticketh so fast , that it can hardly be pulled away without great pain , and without drawing the skin and part of the flesh with it ; whereas if that ulcerous matter were purged , and the sore healed , the plaister would fall off it self , and the cloth might be taken away , without any pain or difficulty . hoping in god , being rightly excercised , worketh this great cure , by rectifying mens apprehensions concerning the creatures , and ordering their affections aright towards god , looking at both with the eye of faith , by scripture light , which represents all things , out of god in christ , when they become the objects of our hope , as vain , and sinful and hurtful . the creatures are good , as they come out of gods hand , but as they are abused , by being idolized , they become vain , and degenerate into nothing . for as an idol is nothing in the world , 1 cor. 8. 4. nothing , which men account it to be , not to be trusted in . so , creature are but vain and empty , like those blasted eares of corn , in pharaohs dream , unlesse god fils them with his blessing . it is a common errour and delusion , to think that , if you had such friends , such relations , such estates , &c. you should live happily and comfortably . for , as david said of an horse , in reference to getting the victory , an horse is a vain thing : so we may say of all creatures being separated from god , in reference to happinesse and comfort , they are vain things to be trusted in , for which christ called that rich man a fool , luke 12. 19 , 20. 2. it is a sin against the first commandement , to give the honour which is due to god alone , unto any creature , as men do that glory in them , jer. 9. 23 , 24. and set their hearts upon them , psal . 62. 10 , 11. this is idolatry , col. 3. 5. it is atheisme , a denial of gods all-sufficiency , which is his peculiar glory , and the foundation of upright walking in the saints , gen. 17. 1. it s the cause of all sins . the schoolmen do rightly define sin to be an aversion of the soul from the immutable god and turning of it to the mutable creature . for all sin implies an over-valuing of the creatures , and an under-valuing of god. see with what indignation god reproves this sin , in jer. 2. 13 , 14. 3. thus to cleave unto present things , and creatures is very hurtful to your selves . for , 1. it steals mens hearts from god ( as absalom stole the hearts of the people from david ) unto things that cannot profit , nor deliver , for they are vain , 1 sam. 12. 25. 2. it provoketh god to with-draw and with-hold his concourse and blessing from the creatures , without which you cannot have any good from them , nor by them ; your own experience may convince you of this . for hence it is that the creatures work unequally , not alwayes one way ; friends and other things , sometimes comfort us , sometimes afflict us . physick could not cure asa , because he trusted in the physitians more than in god ; that all may see , creatures cannot of themselves do us any good , but as god worketh by them , and with them , whose peculiar glory it is to do good or evil , isa . 41. 23. 3. it provokes god to hide his face from you ; and then , though your mountain stand , you will not have peace , as david found , in psal . 30. 6 ; 7. yea , to fill you with terrours in the middest of your jollities , as he did belshazzar , in dan. 5. yea , to reject your prayers , in the day of your distresse , and to send you to your idols for help , as he did those , in judg. 10. 13 , 14. for they that observe lying vanities , forsake their own mercies , jon. 2. 8. 3. the third direction is , to excercise this hope in its quickening work . for this hope is a lively hope , 1 pet. 1. 3. it , being quickened by the live-making spirit , hath lively operations and efficacy , in the souls of believers to quicken true child-●ike fear of god in them , which is the beginning of wisdom , prov. 1. 7. for , though knowledge and faith go before it , yet there is no true wisdom in either of them , unlesse they work in a man this fear . this fear will make us stand in aw of . god , when we see the effects of his wrath upon others . so it wrought in david , when he saw vzzah smitten dead , in 2 sam. 7. 6 , 9. and when he saw that god did put away the wicked as drosse , psal . 119. 12. and in all , that heard of the dreadful stroke of gods vengeance upon ananiah and saphira , in acts 5. 5. 10 , 11. it will make men tremble at his word , isa . 66. 2. at the commands of the word , lest they should disobey them ; at the threatnings of the word ; lest they should fall under them , 2 kings 22. 19. at the promises of the word ; lest they should fall short of them , heb. 4. 1. this fear breeds care , and quickens to self-humbling , putting his mouth in the dust , if there may be hope , lam. 3. 29. and to speedy reformation ; as we see in that speech of shecaniah unto ezra , ezra . 10. 2 , 3. and to fervent prayer , as we see it wrought in jacob , hos . 12. 4. with gen. 32. and hezekiah , jer. 26. 19. and the king and people of niniveh , jon. 3. 5. and the prophet habbakuk , hab. 3. 16. it quickens believers to seek accesse unto god by the mediator , deut. 5. 27 , 28. 29. and therefore to flie unto christ , as chickens get under the wings of the hen , in affrightments , and to trust in god , through christ , and in his word . so it wrought in david , psal . 56. 3. lastly , it quickens us to fear the lord and his goodnesse , hos . 3. 5. it will not suffer men to be wanton upon the goodnesse of god , to slight his goodnesse , to do evil , because god is good ; or to sin , that grace may abound : but it will cause them to fear the lord and his goodnesse , fear to offend his goodnesse . the goodnesse of god will strongly ingage their hearts to walk closely and uprightly with god. 4. the fourth direction is , to excercise this hope in its encouraging and strengthening work , to establish and settle our hearts against all discouraging distrustful fears : 1. of evil tidings , psal . 112. 1 , 7. 2. of evil times ; when all things are turned upside down , and the mountains , princes and great potentates , render themselves terrible to the church and people of god , and the prophane multitude rage against them , like the roaring of the waters , and they can have no rest in their dwellings ; yet they the church and people of god shall have sweet refreshments , by the promises and ordinances , as they of jerusalem had by the waters of siloah , and safety , by the protection of god , who is their refuge , and a present help in times of trouble ; as it is excellently expressed , in psal . 46. 3. of the prosperity and opposition of evil men , against which david comforted himself by hoping in god , psal . 49. 5. 16. and , upon his experience encouraged all believers to take the same course , psal . 27. 1 , 2 , 3 , 13 , 14. 4. of whatever may or can befal them , in this world , psal . 91. 1 , &c , for , 1. god is graciously present with them , rom. 8. 31. therefore they may be confident of safety against future evil , as david was , psal . 23. 4. though armies should surround them , as the syrians did elisha , they have no cause of discouraging fears ; for , if the lord open the eyes of their faith , they may see an invisible guard of angels about them , as elisha's servant saw about his master , 2 kings 6. 15. 2. they are dear to god , as the apple of his eye , zach. 2. 8. 3. all future events are in gods , not their enemies , not in their own hands , psal . 31. 15. 4. they have the sure word and promises of god , for them , isa . 41. 10 , 11 , 12. and 43. 1 , 2. 5. god is , in all the changes that passe over them , unchangeable , as in himself , jam. 1. 17. so in his love to them , jer. 31. 3. and in his faithfulnesse in his promises , psal . 56. 4. to whom they are called to commit their souls in well doing , as into the hands of a faithful creator , 1 pet. 4. 19. doing their own duties , and leaving events to god , as jacob gen. 43. 14. hest . 4. 16. and they in dan. 3. 16 , 17 , 18 : the second case , wherein we are to be instructed how to excercise this , in reference to the publick state of the churches of christ under persecution , and the oppression of enemies , remains to be spoken to . which that i may the more distinctly and fully declare ; i shall indeavour to cleer two things : 1. what the present condition of all the protestant churches , throughout europe is . 2. how we may and ought to excercise this hope , in reference thereunto . 1. to clear the first , i shall give you a true narrative of the protestant churches , in europe , singly and severally considered , as i have received it from a faithful and unquestionable hand . 1. the churches in poland , bohemia , moravia , anstria , and silesia , which were , not long since , many and flourishing , are now wholly dissipated and wasted . 2. though some churches remain in transilvania and hungary , yet they are in danger to be ruined by any advantage of power which the house of austria may get against them . 3. in germany , the churches are so divided , and the protestant states are so distracted , that , not onely all concurrences in a common way , for their mutual edification and preservation are hindred ; but also , as the lutheran party , by their contentious ministry , hath set it self to destroy the rest , so god hath suffered their chief protectors , the kings of sweeon and denmark , to destroy each other . and the electors of saxony and brandenburg , not respecting the safety of their churches , do serve the austrian design against the protestant interest . nor is there any considerable prince in germany , except the landsgrave of hessen , that is able to do any thing of moment to maintain that interest . 4. in the low couutreys ; their present actings tend rather to serve the enemies design against the protestant interest , then for it . 5. in france , the protestant churches are deprived of their former priviledges . so that their standing is a meer toleration , at pleasure . 6. in geneva , we are informed , from other hands , that the duke of savoy would impose a governour and a bishop upon them , or , in case , of their refusal , threatens to besiege them ; and that the king of france refuseth to protect them , unlesse they will receive a bishop . 7. in the vallies of piemont ; the duke of savoy doth still most cruelly , though not openly , oppresse and vex the protestants , notwithstanding the peace made with them ; by giving them up to the power of the popish inquisition , which threatens their utter ruin , if god doth not prevent it . 8. in switzerland , the pope and the austrians , have stirred up and hired the popish cantons to break their fundamental league with the protestants , by persecuting to death or banishment all such as leave their superstitions to become proselytes to us . 9. how it is with our native countrey , england , and those conjoyned with it , in scotland and ireland , you have formerly heard , in part , and may have more hereafter . 2. if we add hereunto the great advantages which the popish party hath against the protestants , and what posture the protestant churches are in , in respect of their mutual relation each to other , to oppose this combination of their enemies , so strongly and universally laid ; it will be manifest that the antichristian party had never so great advantage against the churches of christ , since the reformation began , as now they have . for , 1. whereas formerly the popish parties were divided , now , their differences being composed , they are all united in one common design against the protestant religion and churches ; and their head , the pope , doth manage their common interest with much subtlety and vigour , and that openly , by innumerable agents and emissaries , who are subordinate to the congregation de propaganda fide , who creep into all protestant states and professions , to observe any distance or divisions among them , to widen and foment the same in the minds of the common sort , and to cast stumbling blocks cunningly before all the rest , and thereupon to insinuate the more plausibly their own superstitions . hence , in france , where the popish inquisition was not formerly admitted , it is now of late introduced under a new name of the congregation de propaganda fide ; which is an inquisition in effect , and hath begun to act there with publick authority , prohibiting all commerce from abroad , for the vent of divinity books ; in so much that they do not suffer bibles brought from geneva to be sold any where , but do confiscate them . and in every city in france , where a church of protestants is , there is also a certain number of emissaries , belonging to the congregation de propaganda fide , setled , to oppose and vex them . and it is intended that this designe shall be prosecuted universally against all protestant churches in other places , so soon as the protestant states shall be sufficiently weakned , by divisions among themselves . 2. it is greatly to be lamented , that , whilest satans instruments are so active and united to advance his kingdom ; we who are sujects of christs kingdom , and so many wayes bound to advance it , are so carelesse of christ his interest , that , on the one hand , licentiousnesse , prophanenesse , heresies , blasphemies , and wickednesses break forth , to the reproach of christian religion ; and , on the other hand , the divided professo●s thereof seek & follow eagerly their own advantages , of power and places to undermine the settlement of each other ; and while the enemies have agents every where , and an universal correspondency to weaken us by division , & then to ruin us ; no such way of agency or correspondency is set on foot by publick authority among us to ingage the godly-wise & peaceable to joyn with us to lay the cōmon-gospel-interest to heart , and to communicate counsel and assistance each to other , at least , to pray for one another suitably to the exigencies of things , that when help faileth on earth , it may be procured from the mighty god immediately . for which the lord may justly dash us into pieces , one against another , as vessels unfit for his honour and service . 2. this being the present state of all the churches of christ in europe , i proceed to instruct you to excercise this hope aright , in reference thereunto : which that i may do , i must clear two things : 1. what disposition of spirit is necessary to qualifie the person , to make him a fit subject of this hope . 2. how they who are thus qualified must excercise it . 1. for the first ; whosoever would have and excercise this hope in reference to the publick state of the afflicted churches of christ , they must have and excercise publick spirits in the communion of saints , that is , they must be sanctified by faith in christ , and joyned unto christ visibly , as the head of his church , in communion with the church , which is his body , and take to heart the publick state of the churches , and christ his interest in them , whatever their own private condition is , and to prefer the publick concernments before and above their own private , in their judgments , affections , and indeavours . we must esteem that spiritual society , and the concernments of it , as more considerable then our own . hereof god himself gives us example , who preferres his church before and above all the world besides , as his chief treasure , exod. 19. 5. his jewels , mal. 3. 17. tels them that they are so precious in his sight , and honourable and loved of him ; that he will give men for them , and people for their life , isa . 43. 4. as he did call off senacherib from jerusalem , by sending tirrhaka the king of aethiopia , to invade his land , and so gave both aethiopians and aegyptians into his hand , to free his church from him . now , gods judgment of persons and things should be the rule of our judgment . for we know that the judgment of god is according to truth . so did moses , whose love acted so highly from his high esteem of the church and gods interest of honour in it , that , though god offered to make him a great nation , if he would let him alone , that he might consume israel in the wildernesse , exod. 33. 10. yet he was so far from accepting it , that he prayed the lord to forgive their sin , and , if not , to blot him out of the book which he had written , ver . 32. david was so strongly ingaged in his affections to the church of god , that if all his petitions were to be put into one ; it should be this , that he might dwell in the house of the lord , to behold his beauty there , psal . 27. 4. he had rather be one day there , then a thousand elsewhere , and to be a door-keeper in gods house , than to dwel in the tents of wickednesse , psal . 84. 9 , 10. the place of the publick holy assemblies , was a tent , a tabernacle , an unfixed , a moveable place , yet he cals that an house , a fixed mansion . the people dwelt in houses firmly built upon foundations ; yet david accounted the houses of wicked men tabernacles ; he looked for no stability in the world , but onely in the church and fellowship of those that are in covenant . see how affectionately he speaks of church assemblies and communion with them , psal . 122. 8 , 9. of the same mind and spirit were the saints in the babilonish captivity , psal . 137. 5 , 6. and the same spirit works the like disposition in all the members of christs mystical body ; whether one member suffer , all the members suffer with it ; or one member be honoured , all the members rejoyce with it , 1 cor. 12. 26. and they see good reason for their so acting in the concernments of the churches of christ . for , 1. they know that god hath recorded his name there ; and his name is put upon church members , and therefore his name is honoured , or dishonoured , as things are well or ill with his church . hence it was , that josua was so exceedingly afflicted for the flight of the people before ai , though but about thirty six were slain ; what shall i say , when israel flies before the enemies ? and the canaanites will hear of it , &c. and what wilt thou do to thy great name ? iosh . 7. 8 , 9. therefore christ teacheth us to joyn these together immediately ; hallowed be thy name : thy kingdom come , to shew us that answerable to the well being of the church , which is the kingdome of grace , will be the honour of gods name , in this world. 2. they know that the welfare of all states and people , where churches are , depends upon the welfare of the church . for so runs the promise ; israel shall be a blessing in the midst of the land , isa . 19. 24. hence it was that the saints could not be satisfied with their own private welfare , if the church of god was in affliction and danger , or under reproach . as you may see in vriah , 2 sam. 11. 11. in nehemiah , neh. 1. 3 , 4. with 2. 2 , &c. and in daniel , though he was as highly preferred , as a subject could be , in the greatest monarchy , dan. 10. 2 , 3. hence also , when there hath been a double affliction upon them , both publick and private ; the publick hath swallowed up the private , and made it inconsiderable , in comparison . as we see in eli. 1 sam. 4. 18. and his daughter in law , the wife of phineas , ver . 21 , 22. lastly , hence it was , that when they have had a double opportunity , of doing or procuring good to the publick , and to their own private ; they have preferred the publick advantage before their own private interest . thus terentius a christian commander in the wars under the emperor valens , who was an arrian , being willed by that emperor , for a special service done by him , to demand what he would , made his petition to the emperor , which he presented to him in writing ; that the christians might have the liberty of a church by themselves , to worship god apart from the arrians . the emperor read his petition , and disliking it , tore it , and threw it away . terentius meekly gathered up the scattered pieces , and professed to the emperor , that , if he could not be heard in gods cause , he would not make any suit for his own profit . how may this worthy man shame most christians , in these dayes , who , if their garners may be ful , their sheep multiply , their oxen be strong to labour , their sons be as plants grown up , and their daughters polished and set forth with ornaments , and there be no complaining in the streets ; think themselves happy , and regard not what becomes of religion , and of christs cause and interest in the churches , take not to heart the afflictions of gods people ; if their trading increase ; one good bargain will more comfort them then all the calamities of the church can grieve them ; they can hear and speak of the breaches and ruins of sion , as the athenians did of news , without remorse , or regard . brethren , it is a weighty matter to read letters , and receive intelligence in them concerning the state of the churches . you had need to lift up your hearts to god , when you are about to read your letters from our native country , to give you wisdom and hearts duly affected , that you may receive such intelligences , as you ought . for god looks upon every man , in such cases , with a jealous eye , observing with what workings of bowels they read or speak of the concernments of his church . you see , in amos 6. 6. how his wrath was incensed against those who solaced themselves with their private prosperity , but were not sick , their hearts aked not , for the afflictions of joseph . 3. they know that , if they with-draw from being helpful to the church , god will do good to his church without them ; but he will be avenged upon them that desert or neglect his cause and people . this argument mordecai used to hester , in hest . 4. 13 , 14. and it prevailed mightily with her to run the utmost hazard of her own person , when there might be hope of some good to the church thereby , ver . 16. for the contrary , meroz was cursed by the angel of the lord , because they came not to the help of the lord against the mighty , iudg. 5. 23. though men cannot help the lord , essentially or personally , yet they may be said to help him , relatively , in his cause and people , when they own his cause and people , and appear on that side , when satan and his instruments raise persecutions and reproaches against them : though the lord needs not mens help , in such cases ; for , when he saw that there was no mon , no intercessor , his own arm brought salvation unto him , isa. 51. 16. yet it is our duty to shew on whose side we stand . for christ will look at them as his enemies that disown his cause and people , at such times , as he saith , he that is not with me , is against me , mat. 12. 30. are the people and wayes of god under reproach ? christ is reproachd in them and with them , rom. 15. 3. object . ah! but they are called fools and fanaticks ? answ . when was it otherwise ? bernard complained of the like , in his time ; ipsa religio in opprobrium venit , & timor domini simplicitas reputatur , ne dicam , fatuitas . that is , religion it self comes into reproach , and the fear of god is accounted simplicity , that i say not folly . and , before him , augustine describes the scoffs and frumps of luke-warm professors against the zeal of those that were fervent in spirit , serving the lord , quid insanis ? aiunt nimius est . nuncquid alii non sunt christiani ? ista stultitia est , dementia est . that is , why art thou mad ? say they , your zeal is too much . what ? are none christians but you ? that is folly , it is fanatiquenesse . and , before his time , long , how were the ancient christians in the ten persecutions 300 , years after christ traduced reproached ! rev. 12. 10. before that , in the apostles dayes , paul saith of himself , and the rest , we are fools for christs sake , &c , 1 cor. 4. 10. and , if we be besides our selves , it is to god , 2 cor. 5. 13. peter and john esteemed it a grace to be disgraced for christ , acts 5. 41. christ well knew how crosse to the natural affection of all men reproach and disgrace is ; therefore he , to arme his disciples against it , shews them the happinesse they should have by suffering reproaches and revilings , for his sake , and the gospel , mat. 5. 11 , 12. and the wo●●● issue of declining it , mar. 8. 28. christ added , as a motive , to incourage his disciples in suffering reproaches , that so persecuted they the prophets , mat. 5. 12. which of the prophets escaped sharp tryals , this way ? yea , david himself , though a king , was despised by michal for his zeal in bringing home the ark , and dancing before it , with his head uncovered , as one of the vain persons , said she : but david was so far from being discouraged thereby , that his zeal was more inflamed , and his resolution increased ; it was before the lord , said he , which chose me before thy father , &c. and i will be yet more vile then thus , and will be base , in mine own sight , &c. 2 sam. 6. 21 , 22. i have spoken the more largely unto this , because the present temptation of this time , in the other afflictions of the churches , is the reproachful titles put upon the people of god , whom prophane men call phanaticks . but , if he is a fool that will be laughed out of his coat ; much mure is he a fool , and a mad man , that will suffer himself to be laughed out of heaven , that will hazard the losse of his soul , and salvation to free himself from the mocks and scoffs of a prophane and sinful world. if christ had not , for our sakes endured the crosse , despising the shame , we could never have been redeemed and saved ; let us go forth therefore unto him , without the camp , bearing his reproach , heb. 13. 13. in the same epistle , the christian hebrews are exhorted to call to remembrance the former dayes , in which , after they were illuminated , they endured a great fight of afflictions , partly , whilest they were made a gazing stock , both by reproaches , and afflictions ; and partly , whilest they became companions of them that were so used , heb. 10. 32 , 33. let us do likewise , and own the reproached and persecuted people and cause of christ in suffering times . with-hold not countenance , entertainment , protection , from such , if they come to us , from other countreys , as from france or england , or any other place . be not forgetful to entertain strangers ; for thereby some have entertained angels unawares . remember them that are in bonds , as bound with them , and them which suffer adversity , as being your selves also in the body , heb. 13. 2 , 3. the lord required this of moab , saying , make thy shadow , as the night in the midst of the noon day , i. e. provide safe and comfortable shelter and refreshment for my people , in the heat of persecution and opposition raised against them , hide the out-casts , bewray not him that wandereth . let mine out-casts dwell with thee moab , be thou a covert to them from the face of the spoiler , isa . 16. 3 , 4. object . but so i may expose my self to be spoiled or troubled ? he therefore , to remove this objection , addeth , for the danger is at an end , the spoiler ceaseth , the treaders down , are consumed out of the land . while we are attending to our duty , in owning , and harbouring christs witnesses , god will be providing for their and our safety , by destroying those that would destroy his people . two helps i shall propound , to arm you against those fears of reproach , or dangers , whereby men are apt to be drawn to flinch from the cause and witnesses of christ , in suffering times . 1. strengthen your faith . a sight of the invisible god , and an eye to the recompence of reward so quickened and strengthened the faith of moses , that he chose rather to suffer affliction with the people of god , then to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season ; esteeming the reproach of christ greater riches , then the treasures of aegypt , heb. 11. 25 , 26. and , as faith will strengthen you hereunto ; so faith will be strengthened hereby , in your prayers against being lead into temptation , and left unto scandalous evils , that might expose you to just reproach . therefore david having put up this request to god , that none that wait on god and seek him should be ashamed or confounded for his sake , urgeth this , as an argument , to strengthen his faith ; because for thy sake i have born reproach , shame hath covered my face , psal . 69. 5. 6 , 7. 2. exalt god , as the highest object of your fear . fear god , as he ought to be feared , fear him above all . the greater fear will expel the lesser . therefore the lord prescribes this fearing him aright , as the best remedy against all carnal fears , whereby men are wont to be hindred from obeying god in those duties that will expose men to hurt from the creature , isa . 8. 12 , 13. and chap. 51. 7 , 8 , 12 , 13. so doth christ , in mat. 10. 28. the balking of any duty , which god commandeth , is the ready way to bring upon you , by the wrath of god , that very evil , which you fear that the doing of your duty will expose you to , by the wrath of men . this was that argument , which the prophet jeremy used , to zedekiah , in jer. 38. 19 , 20 , 21 , 22 , 23. because he , fearing lest the iews , that were fallen to the caldaeans , should deliver him into their hand , and they should mock him ; by disobeying the commandement of god , brought upon himself , as a just punishment from the wrath of god , the thing which he feared . 2. the next thing to be shewn , for your instruction , is , how they that are so qualified should exercise this hope , in reference to the publick concernments of the churches , in this their low and afflicted condition . for this purpose i shall propound two directions . 1. see that you lay a sure foundation of this hope , a firm ground-work for this hope to be built and exercised upon ; faith in god as his churches portion , is this ground-work . therefore , let the eye of your faith , through the glasse of the word , look unto god , in this case ; as jehosaphat did , in 2 chron. 20. 12. we have no might against this great company that commeth against us ; neither know we what to do , but our eyes are upon thee . look not so much with the eye of sense downward , and round about you , as with the eye of faith upward , and into the scripture-promises . there , if the lord open your eyes , you shall see that more are with the church and cause , and people of god , then can be against them . this course david took , and was comforted , even when he was surrounded with dangers , psal . 25. 15. mine eyes are ever towards the lord , said he , for he shall pluck my feet out of the net . that your faith in god may be strengthened in this hour of temptation , in these times of the afflictions of joseph ; consider three things : 1. christ his interest of propriery in the churches of the saints . for the church is christs vineyard . the vineyard of the lord of hosts is the house of israel , isa . 5. 7. salomons vineyard in baal-haman was the choicest parcel of his lands . christs vineyard is the chiefest part of his inheritance in the world. salomon let forth his vineyard to keepers . but of this vineyard , his church , christ saith , my vineyard which is mine , is before me , cant. 8. 11 , 12. christ doth not let forth his vineyard unto keepers , but himself keeps it under his own eye continually . indeed , when his vineyard answers not his cost and pains bestowed upon it , but , when he looketh that it should bring forth grapes , it brings forth wild grapes , then , he will take away the hedge thereof , and break down the wall hereof , and then it shall be eaten up , and trodden down , isa . 5. 4 , 5. then the boar out of the wood will waste it , and the wild beast of the field will devour it , for a time , till god attain his end , in their repentance and amendment ; and then he will be intreated to return , and look down from heaven and behold and visit this vine , psal . 80. 13 , 14. and when it becomes a vineyard of red wine , holding forth the value and vertue of the blood of christ , in their faith and obedience , see what he saith of it : i the lord do keep it , i will water it every moment ; lest any hurt it , i will keep it night and day , isa . 27. 2 , 3. 2. the church is christs house , the house of the living god , 1 tim. 3. 15. an house which cost him more then all the silver , and gold , and precious stones in the world will amount unto . for god purchased the church with his blood , acts 20. 27 , 28. christ is the builder and governor of it , heb. 3. 3 , 6. and therefore he will see to it , when it suffers any hurt , that it be repaired , and kept in repair . 3. the church is christs kingdom , which god will maintain against all rebels , as you see at large , in the second psalm . 4. the church is christs spouse , and therefore nearer and dearer to him then any other society in the world , at his right hand stands the queen in gold of ophir , psal . 45. 9. as salomon set his mother at his right hand , to shew that she was next to him , and above all other his subjects . ahasuerosh his wrath was so incensed against haman , for plotting against his queen , and her people , that he determined evil against him , and when he saw him fallen upon the bed whereon hester was ( though he did it to make request for his life ) his wrath so boiled up to the height , that he said ; will he force the queen also before me in the house ? then they covered hamans face , and , at the kings command , hanged him upon the gallows which he had prepared for mordecai , as you may see in the 7th . chapter of hester . the love of christ to the church , which is his spouse , infinitely exceeds the love of ahasuerosh to hester . therefore they consult misery and ruin to themselves and their families , who plot against the church . and wo to them that would force the church to their own wills and devises , contrary to the mind of christ . 5. the church is christs body and fulnesse ; christ hath not his fulnesse without his church . god hath put all things under christs feet , and hath given him to be the head over all things to the church , which is his body , the fulnesse of him that filleth all in all , eph. 1. 22 , 23. hence he sympathiseth with them . in all their afflictions he is afflicted , isa . 63. 9. and what is done against them , is done against him . saul , saul , why persecutest thou me ? acts 9. 4. as when the least toe is trodden upon , the head , by the tongue , cries , why do you hurt me ? you see what christs interest of propriety in his church is , i. e. the greatest that can be . for it is his vineyard , yea , more , his house , yet higher , his kingdom , yet dearer , his spouse , and nearer yet , his own body . and , you know , propriety is of great force with all , to use all their wisdom and power to maintain and preserve their interest . much more will christ vindicate his own interest of propriety in his church against all opposers of it . 2. consider the covenant , whereinto god hath taken his church and people , together with the promises , that , as so many branches of the covenant , belong unto them thereby . god saith unto his church , i sware unto thee , and entred into a covenant with thee , and thou becamest mine , ezek. 16. 8. and of god it is said ; he will ever be mindful of his covenant , psal . 111. 5. upon this ground the faith of the church was strengthened , when they were in a very low and forlorn state , to plead with god ; doubtlesse thou art our father , though abraham be ignorant of us , and israel acknowledge us not ; thou , o lord , art our father , our redeemer , thy name is from everlasting , isa . 63. 16. and again , in verse 19. we are thine , thou never bearest rule over them , thy name was not called upon of them . the promises that belong unto the church and people of god , under this relation , are innumerable . i shall touch upon two or three , that are suitable unto them , in reference to the opposition of their enemies , psal . 37. 12 , 13. the wicked plotteth ( or practiseth ) against the just , and gnasheth at him with his teeth . the lord shall laugh at him , ( that is , shall render him ridiculous , and contemptible to others , as he plots to make the church be unto the world ) for he seeth that his day is comming . by his day , is meant , his dismal day , the day of his calamity , the day appointed of god for his punishment , the destruction , the day when their iniquity shall have an end . such a day is comming upon them : therefore it is added , in verse 17. for the arms of the wicked shall be broken ; but jehovah upholdeth the righteous . behold , ( saith the lord ) i will make jerusalem a cup of trembling unto all people that besiege it round about , zac. 12. 2. the besiegers of jerusalem , the church of god , think they may as easily swallow it up , as a man may drink a cup of wine , and it is as delightsome unto them to do so ; but they shall find it a cup of giddinesse , a drink too strong for them ; yea , a cup of poyson , that will cast them into a drunken sleep , out of which when they shall be awakened , horrour , astonishment , trembling shall seize upon them . it is added , in verse 3. and in that day , i will make jerusalem a burdensome stone , for all people ; all that burden themselves with it , shall be cut in pieces ; though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it . it is folly for any one to lift at a stone , that being too heavy for him to manage , will fall upon him and break his bones . such a stone shall all that lift at the church to remove it out of its place , find it to be unto themselves . the lord jesus , to whom all power in heaven and earth is given , hath said , speaking of peters confessing him to be christ , the son of the living god , with a divine faith , such as is wrought by the revelation of the father ) upon this rock i will build my church ; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it , mat. 16. 16 , 17 , 18. the gates of hell , signifie all the power and policy of the devil , and all his instruments , they shall not prevail against christs church , taken indefinitely . he will preserve his church , in one place or other in the world , maugre all their malice . these , and the like promises , are the streams , which , flowing from that river , the covenant of grace , make glad the city of god , which is his church , even when the waters roar , and the mountains are shaken with the swelling thereof , psal . 46. 3 , 4. that is , what ever changes of government are caused by the fury of a tumultuous multitude , stirred up by satanand his instruments against the church and people of god. 3. consider the presence of god , in christ with his church , in their lowest and most afflicted condition ; according to christs promise to them , being taught to observe and do what he hath commanded , lo , i am with you alway , even unto the end of the world , mat. 28. 20. this serves to strengthen the faith of gods people concerning the church , in her lowest and most afflicted estate ; that god is in the midst of her ; she shall not be moved , god will help her , at the looking forth of the morning , psal . 46. 5. it is night with the church , when the nations make a noise and the kingdoms are moved , as it is said in the next verse ; yet , even then , the churches faith in god , as their portion , being quickened and strengthened , they say , jehovah of hosts is with us ; the god of jacob , an high refuge for us , selah : ver . 7. therefore , that this consideration may the better serve to strengthen our faith , i shall shew you sundry representations of gods presence with his people in their lowest , and most afflicted condition , which the scripture holdeth forth unto us . unto abraham it was represented , under a double similitude : 1. of fowles comming down upon the earcasses , about to be sacrificed , and abrahams driving them away , gen. 15. 11. which represented the aegyptians , and all enemies of the church , which disturbe the people of god in their religious duties of gods worship , and that seek to devour the people of god , as kites or eagles , &c. devour carcasses , and gods presence and readinesse to drive them away . 2. of a smoaking furnace and a burning lamp , verse 17. the smoaking furnace , notes great afflictions , fiery tryals , which shall befal the israel of god. the burning lamp , signifieth that god in christ is with them , at such times , to save them , isa . 62. 1. unto moses it was represented under the appearing of the angel of god in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush , the bush burned with fire , and the bush was not consumed . isa . 3. 2. this moses looked at as a great sight ; and so may we . for , the bush , is the church of god , which is burned with fiery tryals : but whence is it that it is not consumed ? it is not from the impotency of the fire to burn the bush , nor from the strength of the bush to resist the fire , but from the presence of god in christ , as appears , ver . 6 , 7 , &c. to ezekiel it was represented under the similitude of a valley , wherein were many bones , and they very dry , ezek. 37. 2. the valley signified the low estate of the church , the many dry bones denoted the discouraging apprehensions the people of god have , when they look upon the power of the enemies , and their own weaknesse , with the eye of sense , for so the lord said , in verse 11. behold , they say , our bones are dried , and our hope is lost , we are cut off for our parts : yet the lord to quicken their faith , promiseth a resurrection to them . another resemblance of gods presence with his church and people , in the midst of their greatest afflictions , we have in those three companions of daniel , who were cast bound into the midst of the fire , yet the fire had no power upon their bodies , not so much as to singe their hair , or to change their coats . the reason of it was , because the son of god was with them , dan. 3. 25. unto zachary another resemblance hereof was presented ; he saw , by night a man riding upon a red horse , and he stood among the myrtle trees , that were in the bottom , zach. 1. 8. the night , is the time of affliction ; the bottom is the low condition of the church , which is likened unto myrtle trees for its sweet savour unto god. and , in this low afflicted estate , christ is with them , riding upon a red horse , as ready to fight against those that afflicted his church , for whom he intercedes and receives gracious answers . again , in zach. 12. 2 , 3. the lord fore-told that he would make jerusalem a cup of trembling to the besiegers , who thought they could as easily swallow them up , as one may drink a cup of wine , and they would do the one with as much pleasure as the other . but , saith the lord , the effects of this cup shall be trembling and astonishment in you . and , in ver . 3. he saith , he will make ierusalem a burdensome stone to all people that are gathered together against it ; they shall be cut in pieces . then they will see cause to wish they had never burdened themselves with it . thus you see , upon what firm grounds the faith of gods people concerning the good purposes of god towards his church , in their lowest , and most afflicted condition , may be strengthened and setled . 2. this ground-work being thus laid , build and exercise this hope upon it , in its suitable operations , and works . 1. in its purging work : for , he that hath this hope purgeth himself , 1 ioh. 3. 3. then we work with god , when we improve gods means to gods end . gods end , in afflicting his church , is , not to destroy it , but to purge it . so he saith , in isa . 1. 25 , 26. i will turn mine hand upon thee , and purely purge away thy drosse , and take away all thy tinne . and i will restore thy judges as at the first , and thy councellors as at the beginning ; afterward thou shalt be called the city of righteousnesse , the faithful city . there he compares the afflictions of his church and people to the fire whereinto gold and silver is cast , which loseth nothing thereby , but its drosse and tinne ; but the metal it self is thereby made more pure and fit for honourable uses , and services . in the 27th . chapter , the 8. and 9. verses , the same is expressed under two other metaphors : 1. of an husband-man , or vine-dresser . in measure , and in the branches , wilt thou debate with it ; as the husband-man or vinecoome , doth not stock up the roots , to destroy the fruit trees and vines , but onely lopp them , and prune them , by taking away their luxuriant and superfluous branches , that so they may become more fruitful . 2. of stormy winds . he instanceth in the east-wind , which is hurtful to the trees and corn , in those hot eastern countreys , by blasting them , gen. 41. 6. by its scorching heat , whence the graecians call it 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , yet the lord saith he will so order it , that no hurt shall redound to his church and people , by it , but , by this shall the iniquity of jacob be purged , and this shall be all the fruit , to take away his sin . now , seeing this is gods end and way ; let all the churches and people of god , act accordingly , in this time of jacobs troubles , looking up to god in christ for the assistance of his holy spirit , to make this use of his afflicting providences , to be awakened and excited to purge , first , their own hearts , then , the churches , more fully and perfectly . it is no true policy , but folly , in such times , to seek an escape from troubles and dangers , by complyance with the inventions of men , and customes of degenerate churches and christians , in the matters of religion . for that is the ground of gods controversie with his people , for which he testifieth against them , with so strong and open rebukes . but account the fear of god to be the head-point and beginning of wisdom . till men exercise the fear of god , in all their wayes , they do not begin to act wisely . this point of true wisdom god taught iosuae , when he was exceedingly dejected , in josh . 7. 10. to 14 : and the church , in captivity practised accordingly . for they confessed that their sorrows and sufferings were the effects of their sins ; and therefore resolved to search and try their wayes and turn again to the lord ; and then , having removed the impediments , their hope was quickened to lift up their hearts with their hands unto god , in the heavens , lam. 3. 39 , 40 , 41. shecaniah also , observing how the hearts of gods people were prepared to seek reconciliation with god , confessed that they had trespassed against god , in the particular sin discovered to them , and added ; yet now there is hope in israel concerning this thing . and thereupon inferred , now therefore let us make a covenant with our god , &c. and incouraged ezra to act vigorously for reformation , ezra 10. 2 , 3 , 4. the like course the church resolved to take , upon incouragement of the like hope in hos . 6. 1 , 2 , 3. this course we also must take , in this hour of temptation , if we would have a good issue of these afflicting dispensations , which are upon us . 2. exercise this hope in its quickening and incouraging work . for this hope is a lively hope , 1 pet. 1. 3. it is very dishonourable to god , and uncomely for christians , to be despondent and discouraged , in such times of trial . the time of jacobs trial should be the time of iacobs trusting in god. so did the church , when the enemies insulted , in mich. 7. 8. rejoyce not against me , o mine enemy ; when i fall , i shall arise ; when i sit in darknesse , the lord shall be a light unto me . two objections are wont to arise in the minds of gods people in such times , to weaken their hope in god , you have them both in the answer of gideon to the angel , who said unto him , the lord is with thee , iudg. 6. 12 , 13 , and gideon said unto him , oh , my lord , if the lord be with us , why then is all this befallen us ? and where be all the miracles which our fathers told us of ? these are the two temptations which , if they be not scattered , will hinder the exercise of this hope . 1. if god be with us , why then is all this befallen us ? therefore , to arm you , consider , that these two , gods presence with his people , and calamities incumbent upon them , may well consist together . for wise and holy ends god suffers extream calamities to befal his churches and people , before he reacheth forth his hands to deliver them . particularly , he thus dispenseth : 1. that he may thereby convince them of the vanity of those creature-propps , whereupon they are wont to rely too much , and to purge carnal confidence out of them . this was the great sin of the people of israel , to trust in the shadow of aegypt , and to rely upon assyria , though they were fore-warned that aegypt would be a broken ●eed , which would rather hurt then help them ; therefore , saith the lord , have i cryed to her ; their strength is to sit still , isa . 30. 6 , 7. that is , to renounce their creature dependencies , and to expect salvation from god alone , according to moses his exhortation , in exod. 14. 13. but they continually disobeyed god herein , till the lord had convinced them of their sin and folly , by their captivity in babylon , from which no creature could deliver them . then , when god by affliction had wrought their hearts to an humble frame , and to repentance , they expresse it , in reference to this sin , particularly , saying , ashur shall not save us , we will not ride upon horses , &c. for in thee the fatherlesse findeth mercy , hos . 14. 3. the like controversie god hath with his churches and people , at this day , for their trusting too much in the arm of flesh , in the parliament , in the army , or in the protector ; and thereupon became carnally secure and wanton , and slight , when they had such propps to stay upon , and answerably dejected and almost discouraged , when they failed them . the lord awaken and humble his people for it , and cause their eyes , for the future , to be towards him alone . 2. that his people may see him in his glory , and glorifie him alone for their deliverances , he brings them unto a seemingly for lorne condition , and helplesse , to the eye of sense . so in isa . 33. 9 , 10. the earth mourneth and languisheth ; lebanon is ashamed , and withered ; sharon is like a wildernesse ; and bashan and carmel . all things fail : now will i rise , now will i be exalted ; saith the lord ; now will i lift up my self . mans extremity is gods opportunity . 3. that , gods faithfulnesse in his promise may be glorified . for so he hath promised in deut. 32. 36. the lord shall judg his people , and repent himself for his servants , when he seeth that their power is gone , &c. and , in ps . 12. 5. for the oppression of the poor , for the fighing of the needy , now will i arise , saith the lord , i will set in salvation , he shall have breathing . you see how low they are brought , they are poor and needy , and oppressed , so , as they dare not make complaints openly , but sigh and groan secretly . this is the time when god promiseth to rise up , and to give salvation to them . and , to shew that this is gods constant way , in performing his promise , the psalmist addeth his probatum est to it , in the next verse ; the sayings of jehovah , that is , his promises , and , in particular , those that are of this import and concernment , are pure sayings , as silver tried in a subliming furnace of earth , fined seven times ; that is , the saints have , by constant experience , found the truth and faithfulnesse of god in performing them . 4. that thus god may raise and heighten the esteem of his favours in the hearts of his people , when they are beyond , and above their expectation . this effect followed the return of the people of god from their captivity in babylon , psal . 126. 1 , 2 , 3. when jehovah returned the captivity of sion ; we were like them that dream ; that is , it was so far above our thoughts , that we questioned whether it was true , or no , as peter did , in acts 12. 9. then was our mouth filled with laughter , and our tongue with joyful-shouting . this did so raise their joy and thanksgiving to god , that it brake forth into shooting . the very heathens admired and said , god hath done great things for them . much more were themselves affected , and therefore they added , jehovah hath done very great things for us , we are joyful . 5. that , by such dispensations , their faith and obedience may be more fully tryed and perfected . it is said of christ , that , though he were a son , yet learned he obedience , by the things which he suffered , heb. 5. 8. that is , by his sufferings , he had the experimental knowledge of that mediatourly obedience , which he , as our surety , was to perform ; which is noted , in phil. 2. 8. so the churches of christ are brought low , that they may learn , experimentally , suffering obedience , which is the highest obedience of faith , they are brought into a widdow-like condition , that , as she that is a widdow indeed , and desolate , trusteth in god , and continueth in supplications , and prayers , night and day , 1 tim. 5. 5. so they may be disposed suitably to gods end , in afflicting them , who saith , i will leave in the middest of thee an afflicted and poor people , and they shall trust in the name of the lord , zeph. 3. 12. 6. that they may be more fervent in prayer : this operation hope had in david , when he was brought so low that he said , i looked on the right hand , and beheld , and no man acknowledged me , refuge is perished from me , no man seeketh for my soul . this quickned and intended his fervency in prayer , i cryed unto thee , jehovah , and said , thou art my refuge , my portion in the land of the living , psal . 142. 4 , 5. despaire in the creatures help is oftentimes the ground of hope in god for help . for infinite goodnesse , accompanied with infinite wisdom and power , can never be at a losse , nor can faith and hope , which look at them , ever be at a stand . as god knows our souls in adversity , psal . 31. 7. so we know god best in adversity . god is best seen in the mount. to the second objection ; and where be all his miracles , which our fathers told us of ? i shall speak briefly . it hath been sometimes that which hath troubled the saints , that they see not such great things done for the church , in our dayes , as we read of in former times . but there is no cause for it . for the hand of the lord is not shortened , nor is his church lower in his esteem than formerly . when the lord had said by his prophet , the people which were left of the sword found grace in the wilderness , jerem. 31. 2. the people answered , jehovah hath appeared of old : as if they should say , truth , he did so , in time past ; those were good dayes indeed : but now those dayes are gone , we must look for no more of them . the lord replyed , yea , i have loved thee with an everlasting love , therefore with loving kindnesse have i drawn thee , vers . 3. teaching us thereby to improve former experiences , to the strengthening of our faith , for the present , and our hope ; for the future . experience is a multiplyed remembrance of former favours , and blessings , which will help to multiply our hope : for experience worketh hope , rom. 5. 4. hope encouraged by experience , will encourage unto prayer , psal . 22. 4. hence arose that pleading of believers with god in prayer , in isa . 51. 9. awake , awake , put on strength , o arm of the lord , awake , as in the ancient dayes , in the generations of old . art thou not it that hath cut rahab , and wounded the dragon of the sea ? art thou not it which hath dryed the sea ? v. 10. and fervent prayer encreaseth and strengtheneth this hope ; thus christ teacheth us , in the parable of the widdow importuning the unjust judg , luke 18. 6 , 7 , 8. joab never put up a more acceptable request unto david , than when he interceded for his banished absalon . god is much more pleased to be petitioned for his afflicted church , psal . 122. 6. he is very ready to answer such prayers with good returns : for he saith , ask me of things to come , concerning my sons , and concerning the work of my hands command ye me , isa . 45. 11. 3. exercise this hope in its strengthening work . in every degree of the exercise of this hope there is an answerable degree of joy ; we rejoyce in tribulation under the hope of glory , rom. 5. 2 , 3. and answerable to our joy in god will be our strength in god , neh. 8. 10. therefore let this hope strengthen you , 1. to cleave unto god with purpose of heart , acts 11. 23. it is good cleaving to him who will never leave nor forsake his people in their distress , heb. 13. 5 , 6. they that forsake god to cleave to other helpers , will finde their hopes disappointed , when they have most need of help ; then god will say , where are their gods , their rock in whom they trusted ? deut. 32. 37. and they shall not know what to answer , but be ashamed of that which cannot , profit nor deliver : for they are vain . when the people of god are in distress ▪ wicked men will insult against them , and say , where is now their god ? psal . 115. 2. but their answer is ready , our god is in the heavens ▪ he hath done whatsoever he pleased , vers . 3. they will be ready to say , where are your fastings ? your prayers ? your confidence in god ? the answer is easie , they are with god in his book of remembrance : they are as seed sown in heaven , whence we shall reap a plentifull crop of mercy , in due time . but how easily may that be retorted upon them , in reference to god , and his people , which zebul replyed unto gaal , in reference to abimelech , in judg. 9. 38. where is now thy mouth , which said , who is the lord , that we should serve him ? is not this the people whom thou hast despised ? only be sure , if you would cleave to god , that you cleave to his word , and every truth in it , when it is opposed by a sinfull and unbelieving generation : contend for the faith which was once given to the saints , jude 3. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signifies , not simply to contend , but with all our might , and more , if it were possible . the thing to be contended for is , the faith , not a fancy , but the truths received with faith , upon gods authority in his word , the least jot and tittle whereof god values at a higher rate than heaven and earth , matth. 5. 18. and the martyrs of jesus esteemed it above all worldly things , and above their lives . and so should we . 3. this faith was once delivered once for all . if it be lost , or exchanged for errour , there is danger that it will be lost for ever , as we might prove by many examples of apostates , who have become infidels and atheists . 4. this faith was delivered , deposited , committed to our trust , of which a strict account must be given how we have kept and used it . there are three things which above all others god expects we should keep most carefully and faithfully from being wronged : 1. his own name , which is put upon us . 2. his church . 3. his truths contained in scripture , 2 tim. 1. 14. 5. this depositum is committed to the saints , in common ; not only to ministers or magistrates , but also to all believers . it is the common faith , wherein every believer hath his interest in common with the rest ; as all planters or inhabitants have in the commons that belong to a town , for which they will contend with any man that shall wrong them in that their interest . 6. salvation , and this faith are joyned , to teach us , to provide for our salvation by keeping the faith. faith and salvation are kept or lost together . 2. to wait patiently and constantly upon god , in doing and suffering his will : for god sometimes puts a long date to the performance of his promises . but gods deferring is no empty space but a time of fitting his church and people for the good things promised . whiles physick is working the time is not lost , though health be not yet recovered : for , when the sick humor is purged out , then comes health , see isaiah 30. 18. only be carefull , that whilest you wait , you do not cross your hope by sinning against him , upon whom you wait . true waiting is not a meer staying gods leasure , but a continuing in a gracious inoffensive course , till the good waited for be attained . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a37208-e280 valdè sunt cognatae sorores , fides & spes . dr. par. in heb. 6. notes for div a37208-e670 * mr. broughton . see the story at large , in jer. 36. quosdam deserit , quosdam deserere videtur . amb. in psal . 118. mr. duries representation of the state of the protestant churches in europe . bern. de cons . ad eugen. lib. 4. august . de verb. dom. a tryall of the nevv-church vvay in new-england and in old ... by that learned and godly minister of christ, john ball of whitmore ; penned a little before his death and sent over to the new england ministers, anno 1637, as a reply to an answer of theirs in justification of the said positions ... ; now published ... by william rathband and simeon ash. ball, john, 1585-1640. 1644 approx. 321 kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from 50 1-bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : 2006-06 (eebo-tcp phase 1). a63200 wing t2229 estc r20975 12295359 ocm 12295359 59009 this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons 0 1.0 universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase 1, no. a63200) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set 59009) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, 1641-1700 ; 160:11) a tryall of the nevv-church vvay in new-england and in old ... by that learned and godly minister of christ, john ball of whitmore ; penned a little before his death and sent over to the new england ministers, anno 1637, as a reply to an answer of theirs in justification of the said positions ... ; now published ... by william rathband and simeon ash. ball, john, 1585-1640. rathband, william, d. 1695. ashe, simeon, d. 1662. letter of many ministers in old england requesting the judgement of their reverend bretheren in new england. [12], 90 p. printed by t. paine and m. simmons for thomas underhill ..., london : 1644. a reissue, with cancel t.p., of a letter of many minsters in old england, requesting the judgement of their reverend brethren in new england concerning nine positions. london, 1643. reproduction of original in harvard university libraries. created by converting tcp files to tei p5 using tcp2tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy 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proquest page images 2006-03 judith siefring sampled and proofread 2006-03 judith siefring text and markup reviewed and edited 2006-04 pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a tryall of the nevv-chvrch vvay in new-england and in old . wherein are handled these questions following . 1. whether a stinted forme of prayer and set liturgie be unlawfull . 2. whether it be unlawfull to joyne in prayer , or receive the sacraments where a stinted liturgie is used . 3. whether the children of godly and approved christians , be not to be baptized till their parents be set-members of some particular congregation . 4. whether the parents themselves being of approved pietie , ought not to be received to the lords supper , untill they be first admitted as set-members . 5. whether the power of excommunication , &c. be so in the body of the church , that what the major part shall allow , that must be done , though the pastors and governors , and part of the assembly be of another minde , and peradventure upon more substantiall reasons . 6. whether those that are admitted as set-members , ought not to depart or remove , without the consent of that congregation whereof they are members . 7. whether a minister be so a minister to a particular congregation , that if they dislike , or leave him , he utterly ceaseth to be a minister . 8. whether a minister may not performe ministeriall acts to another congregation then his owne . 9. whether members of one congregation , may not communicate in another . by that learned and godly minister of christ , john ball , of whitmore . penned a little before his death , and sent over to the new england ministers , anno 1637. as a reply to an answer of theirs in justification of the said positions . now published ( by occasion mentioned in the epistle to the reader following in the next page ) upon the desire of many godly and faithfull ministers , in and about the citie of london , who love and seek the truth . by william rathband and simeon ash . 1 thes . 5. 21. prove all things , hold fast that which is good . london : printed by t. paine and m. simmons , for thomas vnderhill in great wood-street , 1644. to the reader . good reader , vpon the receipt of the answer returned unto the nine positions , master ball moved by the request of brethren , drew up this reply , which upon perusall and joynt approbation , was directed unto the reverend elders of the severall churches in new england . the reply sent miscarrying in the hand , to which it was committed , though both letters and printed bookes trusted in the same hand were delivered : hereupon another copie was from new england desired , and accordingly prepared in the yeare following . in the meane time , the answer being tendered to the presse , it was judged more meete to keepe the reply in readinesse to attend the publishing of the answer , then to part with it in the other way . this intelligence was the last yeare conveyed into new england , since which time , there hath been an expectation to see that in print , which now is sent abroad to open view . by this relation it is manifest who are voluntiers , and who are pressed to come forth as defendants , in these controversies . these differences betwixt the loving brethren of old england and new , had not been made thus notorious , if some who cry up the church way in new england , as the only way of god , had not been forward , to blow them abroad in the world . but surely the providence of god is remarkeable in bringing these questions into debate at this time , when the ministers of the gospell from all the counties in the kingdome are called together by both houses of parliament , to consult about the healing of our breaches , which are very many and dangerous : the copie of this reply being committed to our custodie we are necessitated to appeare in the publication of it : yet we shall preface nothing concerning the treatise it selfe , because our known respects to the reverend and judicious author will render us partiall , and our testimony can adde no credit to his works , which withall indifferent readers will plead sufficiently for their own acceptance . if this discourse shall adde any discovery of light unto them , who desire a sound judgement in the controversies here agitated , our end is obtained , and our prayers answered , who are . thy servants in and for the truth , simeon ash , william rathband . the letter of those ministers in england , who requested to know the judgement of their brethren in new england , in nine positions , wherein the reasons , of this their request , are truly reported . ( reverend and beloved brethren ) whiles we lived together in the same kingdome , we professed the same faith , joyned in the same ordinances , laboured in the worke of god to gaine soules unto his kingdome , and maintained the puritie of worship against corruptions , both on the right hand and on the left . but since your departure into new england , we heare ( and partly beleeve it ) that divers have embraced certaine vain opinions , such as you disliked formerly , and we judge to be groundlesse and unwarrantable . as that a stinted forme of prayer , and set liturgie is unlawfull ; that it is not lawfull to joyne in prayer , or to receive the sacrament , where a stinted liturgie is used . 3. that the children of godly and approved christians are not to be baptized , untill their parents bee set members of some perticular congregation . 4. that the parents themselves , though of approved piety are not to be received to the lords supper , untill they bee admitted as set members . 5. that the power of excommunication ▪ &c. is so in the body of the church that what the major part shall allow , that must be done , though the pastors and governors , and part of the assembly be of another minde , and peradventure , upon more substantiall reasons . 6. that none are to be admitted as set members , but they must promise , not to depart , or remove unless the congregation will give leave . 7. that a minister is so a minister to a particular congregation , that if they dislike him unjustly , or leave him , he ceaseth to be a minister . 8. that a minister cannot performe any ministeriall act in another cogregation . 9. that members of one congregation may not communicate in another . these and other such like ( which we omit to reckon up ) are written and reported to be the common tenents in new england , which are received with great applause , maintained with great confidence , and applauded as the only church way wherein the lord is to be worshipped . and letters from new england have so taken with divers in many parts of this kingdome , that they have left our assemblies because of a stinted liturgie , and excommunicated themselves from the lords supper because such as are not debarred from it . and being turned aside themselves , they labour to ensnare others , to the griefe of the godly , the scandall of religion , the wounding of their owne soules ( if they did advisedly consider the matter ) and great advantage of them , that are wily to espy , and ready to make use of all advantages to prejudice the truth . ( beloved brethren ) if you stood in our places , we are well assured it would be no small griefe unto you , to beare and see the people led aside to the disgrace of the gospell , upon weake and groundlesse imaginations , and in rash end inconsiderate zeale to deale with that which is of god , as if it were of man. and if it be to us griefe of heart to heare that you have changed from that truth which you did professe , and embrace that for truth which in former times upon sound grounds you did condemne as erroneous , we hope you will not be offended . you know how oft it hath beene objected that non-conformists in practice are separatists in heart , but that they goe crosse to their own positions , or smother the truth for sinister ends . they of the separation boast that they stand upon the non-conformists grounds . a vainglorious flourish and sleight pretence . but both these are much countenanced by your sudden change if you be changed , as it is reported . how shall your brethren bee able to stand up in the defence of their innocencie , and the uprightnesse of their cause , when your example and opinion shall be cast in their dish ? must they leave you now , with whom they have held society ? or will you plead for separation , which you have condemned as rash and inconsiderate ? you know that thy who have run this way , have fallen into manifold divisions , and may not you justly feare , lest the same befall you ? some warnings you have had already , and have you not cause to feare every day more and more ? errour is very fruitfull and will spread apace . a cracke in the foundation may occasion a wide breach in the building , where there will not be means , or mind to amend it . experience every day may tutour us herein . but to let passe all inconveniences , our request in all meeknesse and love is , that if these or any of the forementioned opinions be indeed your tenents , you would be pleased to take a second review of your grounds , and send us your strongest reasons that have swayed you in these matters : and if we shall find them upon due examination to be such as will carry weight , we shall be ready to give you the right hand of fellowship ; if otherwise you shall receive our just and modest animadversions in what we conceive you have erred from the truth . you will not iudge , if we cannot apprehend the strength of your grounds it is because we love not the truth ▪ or bee carryed with by-spects ( though these conceipts prevaile too much : ) such rigid and harsh censures , cannot lodge in meeke and humble breasts . weighty reasons promote the truth not unadvised judging . you your selves have judged that to be errour , which now you take to be truth when yet you were not blinded with by re-respects , nor hudwinked your eyes , that you might not see the light . and if you have just warrant from god to pull downe what you have builded , and to build what you have pulled downe , we desire you would lovingly and maturely impart it , for as yet we have seene none , which we are not ready to prove , and shew by the rule of truth to be too weake to carry any burthen . we adore with you the fulnesse of the scripture , and we know the counsell of the lord shall stand : if you can shew that you walke in the wayes of god , we shall heartily rejoyce to walke with you : but if you have turned aside , we shall earnestly desire that you would be pleased seriously to consider the matter , and speedily reforme , what is out of order . thus not doubting of your favourable interpretation of this our motion , for the preventing of distraction , maintenance of peace , and searching out of the truth , whereby we may be directed to live to the praise of god , the good of his people , and comfort of our soules , beseeching god to lead and guide us into all truth and holinesse , and keepe us blamelesse untill his glorous appearance , we rest your loving brethren . an epistle written by the elders of the churches in new-england , to those godly ministers fore-mentioned that sent over the positions . reverend and beloved brethren : in these remote coasts of the earth , whereunto the good hand of god hath brought us , as we doe with much comfort of heart call to mind the many gracious blessings , which both with you , and from you , we injoyed in our christian and holy communion , ( the memory and fruit whereof we hope shall never be blotted out ) so we have also seen cause to looke back to our former administrations there , and to search and trie our wayes ; that wherein soever we have formerly gone astray , we might judge our selves for it before the lord : and that seeing now god hath set before us an open doore of libertie , wee might neither abuse our libertie in the gospel , to runne out into any groundlesse unwarrantable courses , nor neglect the present opportunitie to administer ( by the helpe of christ ) all the holy ordinances of god , according to the patterne set before us in the scripture ; in our native countrey , when we were first called to the ministery , many of us tooke some things to be indifferent and lawfull , which in after-times we saw to be sinfull , and durst not continue in the practise of them there ; afterwards some things that we bare as burthens , that is , as things inexpedient though not utterly unlawfull ; we have no cause to retain and practise the same things here , which would not have been not onely inexpedient , but unlawfull : such things as a man may tollerate when he cannot remove them , hee cannot tollerate without sinne , when he may remove them ; besides some things we practised there ( which wee speak to our shame and griefe ) which we never took into serious consideration whether they were lawfull , and expedient or no , but took them for granted , and generally received ; not onely by the most reformed churches , but by the most godly and judicious servants of god amongst them ; which neverthelesse when we came to weigh them in the ballance of the sanctuarie , we could not find sufficient warrant in the word to receive them , and establish them here : of one of these three kinds will these our present practises appeare to be , which you call our new opinions , or , innovations here ; except it be some few of them , which though they have been reported to you to be our judgements and practises , yet are indeed farre from us : the particulars are too many , and too weightie to give you account of them , and the ground of our proceedings about them in a letter . but to give you ( if it be the will of god ) the better satisfaction , we have sent you a short treatise touching each particular , that according to your desire you might understand from us how farre we do acknowledge any of these tenents , and upon what ground , hoping that according to your promise , if upon due examination you shall find any weight in them , you will give us the right hand of fellowship . but if otherwise , you will send us your just and faithfull animadversions , and we doe not suspect your loves to the truth , or your sincere speaking according to your conscience in the sight of god , neither taxe we you as siding from the truth with by-respects , whereof you complain , verily we abhorre such rash , harsh , and presumptuous notoriousnesse , we see as much cause to suspect the integritie of our own hearts , as yours ; and so much the more , as being more privie to the deceitfulnesse of our own hearts then to yours . and we cannot but with much thankfulnesse of heart acknowledge the many rich precious treasures of his grace , wherewith the lord hath furnished sundrie of you above your brethren , which causeth us with great reverence to accept , and receive what further light god may be pleased to impart unto us by you ; but as we have beleeved , so have we hitherto practised , and so have most of us spoken this our answer to your particulars , most of us we may say , because there wants not some brethren amongst us who proceed further , even to looke at all set formes of prayer invented by men of another age or congregation , and prescrib●d to their brethren to be read out of a book for the prayers of the church , as images , or imaginations of men , forbidden in the second commandement ; but as we leave them to their libertie of their own judgements without prejudice , so do we also concurre with the rest of them , so farre as we all goe in bearing witnesse against any set formes , or the corruptions in them ; in dispatching whereof , we have been the more slow because it behoved us first to inquire into , and to settle some controversies amongst our selves , before we could well attend to entertaine discourse about forraigne questions which do not so neerely concerne our present estate and practise . besides your letters being sent to the ministers of the churches , and some of us dwelling farre a sunder , it was not an easie thing for all of us often to meet together to consider of these questions , much lesse to resolve upon one just answer . but having at length ( by the assistance of god ) brought our answers to this issue , we commend it to the blessing of the lord , and in him to your christian , and judicious consideration ; where if all things bee found safe , and duely warranted from scripture grounds ; do you also as seemeth vigilant watchmen of the lords flock , and faithfull witnesses to god ; if any thing seeme doubtfall to you , consider and weigh it very well before you reject it : if any thing appeare to be unfound , and dissnant from the word ( which we for our parts cannot disterne ) we shall willingly attend to what further light god may send unto us by you : in the meane while wee intreat you in the lord , not to suffer such apprehensions to lodge in your minds , which you intimate in your letters ; as if we here justified the wayes of riged separation , which sometimes amongst you we have formerly borne witnesse against ▪ and so build againe the things we have destroyed ; you know they separate from your congregations , as no churches ; from the ordinances dispensed by you as meere antichristian , and from your selves as no visible christians . but wee professe unfainedly , we separate from the corruptions which we conceive to be left in your churches , and from such ordinances administred therein as we feare are not of god , but of men ; and for your selves , we are so farre from separating as from no visible christians , as that you are under god in our hearts ( if the lord would suffer it ) to live and die together ; and we looke at sundrie of you as men of that eminent growth in christianitie , that if there be any visible christians under heaven , amongst you are the men , which for these many yeeres have been written in your foreheads ( hoiinesse to the lord ) which we speake not to prejudice any truth which our selves are here taught and called to professe , but we still beleeve though personall christians may be eminent in their growth of christianitie : yet churches had still need to grow from apparent defects to puritie ; and from reformation to reformation , age after age , till the lord have utterly abolished antichrist with the breath of his mouth , and the brightnesse of his comming to the full and cleare revelation of all his holy truth ; especially touching the ordering of his house and publick worship ; as a pledge of this our estimation of you , and sincere affection to you , we have sent you these answers to your demand , and shall be readie , by the help of christ , to receive back againe from you , wise , and just , and holy advertisements in the lord. now the lord god , and father of our lord jesus christ , your lord , and ours ; lead us all unto all truths , purge out all leaven out of his churches , and keepe us blamelesse and harmlesse in his holy faith and feare , to his heavenly kingdome , through him that hath loved us ; in whom we rest , your very loving brethren , the elders of the churches in new-england . reverend and dearely beloved brethren , it is not to be doubted but while we live here , we shall have just cause to search and try our ways , look back upon former courses , and call things done to more strict examination . for being over-clouded with ignorance , compassed about with infirmities , and beset with many temptations to sinne , knowing what we know best , but darkly and in part , no marvell , if in many things we offend ignorantly , of frailty for want of due consideration , rashly mistaking errour for truth , condemning truth for errour , suspecting evill without cause , and not suspecting where is just reason , drawing erronious conclusions from sound principles , and maintaining truths upon weak grounds ; so that in examination of our wayes , and endevours of their reformation wee had need to looke warily , that wee turn not to the right hand or to the left , for in the one we add to the word of god , as well as in the other , and of our selves are apt to strike aside to both . a loose conscience will be profane , a tender , scrupulous . it stands us therefore upon to have our selves in suspition , in as much as experience teacheth that many have swerved from the path of found peace and comfort on each hand . wherefore ( beloved brethren ) if since your comming into new england , upon serious review of former actions you have discovered any truths heretofore not taken notice of , we shal be so far from rejecting them because of your former judgment and practice , that we shall heartily desire to know and imbrace the same with you , and blesse god for you as the happy instruments of his glory , our instruction & the advancement of the truth . but if the discoveries be of the like nature with the positions mentioned in the letter ; as before , so still , we conceive them to be new opinions , and not warranted by scripture , which is the true antiquity . opinions we say , not practices , for not changing your opinion , you might lawfully alter your practice ; nay , what you did tolerate formerly as a burthen , in case not free , you might well forgoe being at your liberty . your judgement being the same , you might use your liberty in forbearance of a set liturgie , and yet retaine the same judgement of a stinted liturgie , that you had before ; you might forbeare for a time upon speciall reason ( such as present state and occasion might suggest ) to receive to the sacrament approved christians , not set members of a particular congregation ; as some brethren do ) who yet dare not think it unlawfull to communicate with such in the act of worship , or deem it just and right altogether to debar them , as having no right nor title to those priviledges of this church . it is your opinions whereto we had respect not simply your practice . it never entred into us to perswade you to a set liturgy , much lesse to complain that you had not accepted ours . but that all stinted liturgies should be condemned as devised worship , and so condemned as that none may lawfully be present at , or pertake of the sacraments administred in a stinted or devised forme , this wee called a new opinion . neither do we mention it because we knew it to be the private opinion of some brethren among you , whom we had left to the liberty of their owne judgment , so far as the maintenance of the truth , and a just call did not ingage us : but because it was cryed up , and advanced with all diligence , and endeavour of some among us standing affected england-ward , as if a chief point of holinesse consisted in separation . you know how great a fire a little sparkle kindles . and seeing this distraction and rent had its originall , growth and continuance from some brethren in those parts , or affected to that way , when in loving and friendly manner we could neither receive grounds at home for our conviction , nor procure just satisfaction to the contrary ; what could wee doe lesse then call upon you joyntly to know your judgment , and either by sound proof to be by you convinced ( if happily you should approve their separation ( which we esteem groundlesse , rash , unlawfull , and prejudiciall to outward peace ) or being backed by a testimony of its dislike from you , we might the better be both incouraged , and furnished to endevour the quenching of that fire which was kindled but in too many places , in other perticulars also , wee conceive , you goe beyond commission given of god : granting them authority to whom god hath not committed it , debarring others from the priviledge of the sacraments , who have title thereto by the covenant of grace . your love in that you were pleased to signifie first your kinde and respective acceptance of our letter , and now also to send us an answer thereto , we acknowledge it with all thankfulnesse , and shall endevour ( through the grace of god ) to return like affection in truth of heart , if in measure we fall short . of your respect to us in particular , we make no question , your expressions are beyond that we could expect , as also what we dare own . but we humbly beseech the lord to direct , uphold , and guide us , that in some measure we may walk worthy of our vocation , and approve our selves faithfull to your consciences . it was one end of our writing to be satisfied in this point , whether you approve the ways of separation ( whereof wee complain ) and their courses who laboured with all their might , when they conceived hope to be heard to perswade thereunto . against which ( if we knew your judgment ) you testified among us . you know they that separate are not all of one straine and temper . some deny all communion with us publick and private , some admit of private , but deny all publick , and some joyne in prayer before , and after sermon , as also preaching of the word ( because in their esteeme , this may be done without communion in a church-way ) but refuse to partake of the sacraments . all which separations wee judge uncharitable , contrary to the commandement of christ , and have ever thought that you ( whilst with us ) and we were of one minde herein . if of late we have conceived fears of some of you ( deere brethren ) as leaning too much to what formerly you disliked , we beseech you weigh what urgent and pressing reasons forced us thereunto , and we shall most gladly ( wee heartily desire you to rest assured ) lay hold of every line and syllable , that may tend to dislodge such apprehensions . for as we conceive , the dispute to be unreasonably moved , the rent offensive , the opinions themselves prejudiciall to the cause of god , and the advancers thereof to have passed the limits prescribed by god ; so wee shall esteem it an inestimable blessing , if ( now what hinders being removed ) wee might joyn with one heart and soule , in one way of god to promote his glory , and seek the good of his church and people . we trust in the lord , we should not draw back in any course wherein wee may see the lord going before us , nor be an offence to any to keep the lords way ; wee seek the truth , and are perswaded it is the cause of god which we defend : we plead for communion with the churches of christ , no further then they hold communion with christ , still desiring to keepe the unity of the spirit in the bond of peace , with your selves and all others , who walke in the right way of truth , peace and comfort . how the lord may be pleased to deale with us , or dispose of us wee know not ( his blessed will be done . ) but of this we are resolved , through his grace , not willingly to raise trouble or dissention among you , if through ignorance or infirmity we shall not so fall in , as to be of one minde with you in these matters . and here we desire you to consider that in these particulars you dissent as much one from another as we dissent from you , and that wherein we dissent from you ( and perhaps from the lesser part of you ) you dissent from the judgement and practice of all reformed churches . this wee speake not to prejudice your cause , but to intreat your serious re-exmination of what you have sent us , and this tryall thereof , by the touchstone of the word . for if we mistake not , in many things it will not abide the test . you have written in great love and tendernesse , that your positions might be so scanned , and wee shall endeavour with such affection to try all things , and hold fast that which is good . and now ( beseeching the guidance of the spirit ) with your leave , wee shall endeavour to deale fully and plainly , as the nature of the cause requireth , intreating you impartially to consider the grounds whereupon we , go and weigh what wee shall say in the ballance of the sanctuary . the lord of his rich mercy in jesus christ , direct us in discerning what is right and pleasing in his sight , cast offences out of the church , close up rents and divisions , reveal his truth more and more , set up and mayntain the purity of his own ordinances , unite the hearts of his people to the love and feare of his holy name , teach us self-deniall , and keep us blamelesse to the comming of the lord jesus christ . amen . i position . that a stinted forme of prayer and set liturgie is unlawfull . answ . before we proceed to declare our selves concerning this position : it will be needfull that some things be premised , for the explication of the terms thereof . we suppose , 1 by a liturgy and forme of prayer , you mean not a forme of private prayers composed for the helpe and direction of weaker christians : but the system or body of publike prayers generally used in the english parishes , complied for the churches use by other men not infallibly guided by god , to be said or read out of a book by their ministers as the churches prayers . and that this is your meaning , may appeare from your letter it self , wherein you complain that divers in many parts of that kingdome have left their assemblies , because of a stinted liturgy . now we know not of any other stinted liturgy from which the people do absent themselves , but onely that which is in use in the english churches . for as for a forme of prayer in generall , wee conceive your meaning cannot be of that . for it is evident that many preachers constantly use one set form of prayer of their own making before their sermons , with whom the people refuse not to joyn . 2 by stinted and set , you mean such prayers , as are so imposed upon the churches and ministers , as that they are limited to that very form of words expressed in the book without addition , diminution , or alteration ; for that liturgy and forme among you , is in this sense set and stinted . 3 by unlawfull , you mean that we looking at that form , as swerving from the rule ; neither dare first practice it our selves , not secondly approve the use of it by others . this being the true state of the question , so far as it appears to us , from the letter . we answer , 1 for our own practice , the churches here doe not use any stinted forme of prayer and set liturgy , for these and other such reasons . 1 because we finde no necessity of any stinted liturgy to be used among us , by vertue of any divine precept . and seeing the commission of the apostles limited them , to teach men to observe and do onely what christ did command them in matters of this nature , math. 28. 20. who are we and what are our churches , that we should presume above this commission ? and , we hope , it will not be offensively taken by any godly brethren , that we stand fast in the liberty wherewith christ hath made us free in this , as well as in all other things . secondly , because the lawfulnesse of set forms and stinted liturgies is questioned and doubted of by many faithfull servants of god : whereas for church-officers to edifie the churches by their own gifts , as well in praying as in preaching , all sorts without controversie grant it to be lawfull . now spirituall prudence guideth believers , when two ways are set before them , one doubtfull though ventured on by some , the other certainly safe and good , though neglected by many , to choose that which is safe , declining the other . thirdly , because primitive paterns of all the churches of god in their best times ( when as touching this point they kept the rule in their eye ) whether jewish before christ , or christian above a 100 yeers after christ , yield not the least footstep to shew us another safe way to walk in , then this which we have chosen . as for after times towards the end of the second , and beginning of the third century , we know how far the churches were then degenerated and declined from the first purity ; neither do we marvell at it , seeing in the apostles time the mystery of iniquity began to work , and it was then foretold , that the power of godlinesse would be in aftertimes exchanged for empty formes . in which respect , we look not at them as our guides neither in this , nor other particulars not warranted by the rule , herein following the advise of cyprian , who himself saw the corruption of those times , non est attendendum quid aliquis ante nos faciendum putaverit , sed quid qui ante omnes est christus fecerit & faciendum praeceperit . to conclude , seeing our christian liberty freeth us from binding our selves to any religious observances , whereunto the written word doth not bind us . and seeing spirituall prudence directs us to choose those ways , which on all hands are confessed to be s●fe , avoiding those that be doubtfull and hazardous . and seeing it will not be safe for us , needlesly to swerve from the constant practice of all churches that are recorded in scripture , and there held forth as a cloud of witnesses for us to follow in matters of this nature , wee therefore may not , doe not , dare not use set forms of prayers and stinted liturgies in these churches . more particularly , in that we doe not use that forme of prayer and stinted liturgy , which is in use among your selves : these and such other like reasons have induced us thereunto . 1 the many and just exceptions whereunto that liturgy is lyable both for matter and manner ; for the proofe whereof wee referre you to those faithfull servants of god , who have gone before us in witnessing against the same : amongst others to master cartwright and the abridgment . 2 in as much as that liturgy was never commanded of god , and hath been greatly abused to idolatry and superstition , and is not of any necessary use , and therefore we are affraid to bring it into the worship of god , as knowing the jealousie of the lord , in matters of this nature ; exod. 20. and how strictly hee commandeth his people , that all monuments and remnants of idolatry and superstition should be abolished from among them , deut. 5. 25 , 26. exod. 23. 13. esay 30. 2● . 2 cor. 6. 17. in which respect the holy ghost hath greatly commended iacob , david , iehu , hezechia and iosiah , for taking away the remembrance of such things , gen. 35. 2 , 4. psal . 16. 4. 2 king 10. 26 , 27. & 18. 4. & 23. all the chapter . and where other kings of iudah came short of the like zeale , the scripture notes it as a blemish in them that the high places were not taken away , albeit the people did not sacrifice in them to false gods , but onely to the lord , 2 chron. 15. 17. & 20. 33. & 33. 17. yea , moreover , it appeareth by the scripture , that somethings that had a good originall and use ( if they be not still necessary and commanded of god ) are unlawfull when once they are knowne to be defiled by idolatry , and abused to it , 2 king. 18. 4. hos . 2. 16 , 17. as the brazen serpent was at the first an institution though but temporary : but when the children of israel burned incense to it . hezechiah , is commended for breaking it in pieces , and the lord witnesseth of him that he did that which was right in the sight of the lord , and according to his commandement , which he commanded moses , 2 king. 18. 3 , 6. how much more in the like case ought other things to be removed , which never were commanded of god , but onely were devised by men ? and that that liturgy hath been supertitiously abused , may be cleer to any that shall consider that it is the same for substance that was used in the days of poperty . and therefore when the papists in devonshire and cornwall , had made a commotion and rebellion upon the change of religion , in the days of king edward the sixth . it was told them by the king , for the pacifying of them : that it was the self-same service in english , which had been before in latine : and if the service of the church was good in latine , it remayneth good in english , for nothing is altered : fox acts and monuments , edward 6. and pope pius the fifth did see so little variation in it from the latine service , that had been formerly used in that kingdome , that he would have ratified it by his authority , if q. elizabeth would have so received it . and many of the people put such holinesse in it , that they think god is not rightly worshipped , nor his sabbath well observed , nor the sacraments sufficiently administred , if there be no reading of that service . and others put such holinesse and necessity in it , that they preferre it before gods holy ordinance of preaching the word . in so much as the ministers are in the danger of being called in question , and of being censured , if they doe not read that liturgy every lords day without omitting any part thereof , either in respect of preaching or otherwise . 3 in regard of the many wofull scandals , and dangerous consequences of using that liturgie , of which we suppose you are not ignorant . to mention but two , viz. the hardning of papists who are imboldned to think better of their own breviaries , masse-books , portuisses , seeing that liturgie hath bin extracted out of those books , and rather fetched from them then from the forms used in any of the reformed churches . 2 the conntenancing and establishing of an unlearned idol ministery , of not-preaching curates , non-residents , pluralities , &c. in whose skirts is to be found the blood of so many mens souls living and dying in their sins , while they ignorantly content themselves with , and harden themselves in some empty forms of religion and blinde devotion , which are begotten and cherished chiefely by such prayers and ministers . neither is there lesse scandall hereby ( we meane not onely taken but given ) then by the eating of an idolathite , in the idols temple condemned by the apostle 1 cor. 8. 7 10. for if the eating of an idolathite by him that had knowledge , and knew that an idol was nothing , and that all meats were lawfull , did imbolden others to honour the idol , and therefore was a scandall given , so also it is in this case . 4 seeing that booke is so imposed as that the minister in reading of it , is limited to the very words set downe without any diminution , addition , or alteration ; therefore we dare not use it . for 1 the lord himselfe hath not limited his people to his own formes and therefore we see not , how it can be lawfull to be limited to other mens formes ; for in thus doing we should subject our selves to the exercise of such an authority and power of the prelates , as in this case puts forth a stronger act of limiting power then christ himselfe , who doth not limit us to those formes , which himselfe hath set downe in scripture : for though we acknowledge the lords prayer and other formes set down in scripture , may be lawfully used as prayers ( due cautions being observed ) yet there is not a limitation lying upon the churches in the use of those prayers . and therefore we do not find that the apostles ever used that form taught by christ in those very words , much lesse limited themselvs to it , when they prayed , nor did they teach the churches so to doe . 2 if the lord would not have us limit our selves in our own forms , whiles we are exercising our own gifts ( which he hath specially sanctified to edify his church act. 6. 4. eph. 4. 8. 1 cor. 12. 7. ) least we should quench or at least straiten his spirit in prayer , 1 thes . 5. 19. would he then have us limited to other mens forms , which have not beene in like sort sanctified of god , but will rather quench or straiten the spirit of god , whiles we are so limited to them ? 3 the entertainment of this form hath been a manifest snare unto the churches who upon the same ground on which they have received this forme into the desks have beene limited to others in the pulpit , by meanes whereof the poore church of christ hath bin wholly deprived of the publike use of the ministers gifts in prayer , and the spirit of prayer in the ministers in publike , hath beene greatly restrained . as for our judgement concerning the practice of others , who use this liturgie in our native countrie , we have alwayes beene unwilling to expresse our mindes there against unlesse we have been necessarily called thereunto , and at this time we thinke it not expedient to expresse our selves any further concerning this matter , as loath to intermeddle with the affaires of other churches , but contenting our selves with , and blessing the lord for those liberties , which we , by the mercie of god , do here enjoy , reserving also due reverence to the judgements of our beloved brethren and deere countreymen , who may concerning this matter be otherwise minded . reply . this position cannot beare that meaning which you give it , if you take it according , o our mindes , and the plain construction of the words . we never questioned why you made not use of a stinted liturgy , much lesse why you did not wholly and in every part tye your selves unto , and approve of that forme in use amongst us . you might well thinke we had little to doe to put forth such a demand , viz. whether you thinke it lawfull to approve in others and practice your selves , what swerveth from the rule , and we thinke it strange you should give our words such a meaning . the thing we craved resolution in was , whether in your judgements all stinted and set formes of prayer and liturgies be unlawfull . the reason hereof was because in writings from new-england , we had seene all set liturgies , and set formes of prayer condemned as devised worship which god would not accept , and partaking in the sacraments of the supper in our assemblies , therefore disallowed , because administred in a stinted liturgie , which things were received with such likeing among some brethren with us , and by them imparted and recommended to others , that they occasioned that rent and distraction whereof we complain . it is true , the people among us separate from our forme of prayer or liturgy , but the reason hereof is because it is stinted , not because this or that or ours in particular . you confesse you want not some brethren among you who look at all set formes of prayer invented by one of another age or congregation , and prescribed to their brethren , to be read out of a booke for the prayers of the church , as images and imaginations of man forbidden in the second commandement , and that the lawfulnesse of liturgies , and set formes is questioned and doubted of by many faithfull servants of god such also as come over occasionally , who withdraw themselvs from the sacraments in the congregation , doe it on this pretence , that a stinted liturgie is a humane invention . and if we examine the reasons brought against stinted formes and liturgies , we shall finde them to strike at all formes and liturgies though devised by men of the same age and congregation , and to be used but now and then , or but once on set purpose , and that either in publike or in private , as elsewhere we may have occasion to shew . you say it is evident , many preachers constantly use a set forme of prayer of their own making before their sermons , with whom the people refuse not to joyne ; and you know ( we doubt not ) that such set formes are disliked also . and if the grounds be examined ( in our understanding ) they make as much against the one as the other . view but the reasons why you admit not a stinted liturgie and forme of prayer , and see whether the two last will not in the same terms directly conclude gainst both . but what ever is to be thought herein , or whether mens practises agree with their opinions we now dispute not . this is plaine and manifest , that mens opinions are to be judged by their expresse words and reasons , not by their practises . the brownists ( as they are commonly called ) can separate from no stinted liturgie amongst us , but that which is in use , and for ought we know they may joyne with their owne pastors , though they oft use the same forme of prayer in whole or in part , in thanksgiving before meat , or in prayer before sermon , or the like . and yet their opinion is that all stinted liturgies and set formes of prayer be unlawfull , humane inventions forbidden by the second commandement . but if any thing had beene left doubtfull in the letter , that it might be strained to another sence , either because we were short in expression , or many of you not informed in the passages which gave occasion to the question , it is well knowne what the words meane in ordinary construction . and we doubt not but many brethren among you , might and could fully informe you of our meaning that there need no such straining to find it out . that which followeth in your answer to the position ( as you interpret it ) wee passe over , because it is not to the matter intended . and wee are as unwilling to trouble you with the affaires of other churches taking you from your owne weightie occasions , as you are unwilling to be interrupted . onely in regard of promise , and because plaine dealing serves to maintaine love , we thinke good to advertise you these few things . 1 that your reasons why you accept not of a stinted lyturgie be ambiguously propounded , for sometimes you plead onely for your libertie herein , and that a stinted forme is not necessary , and sometime you speake so , as they that looke at stinted lyturgies , as images forbidden in the second commandement will easily draw your words to their meaning . 2 the reasons you bring against a set forme of prayer or liturgie doe hold as strong against a set forme of catechisme confession and profession of faith , blessing , baptizing and singing of psalmes . 3 wee have not called upon you at this time to witnesse for , or against the corruptions in the communion-booke . this you fall upon by straining the sense of our demands contrary to the true meaning thereof . the reasons which you bring against it , we cannot approve them all ; the exceptions which have bin taken both from the matter and manner thereof we know : but to esteeme the whole for some corruptions found therein , a monument of idolatry , that we have not learned . the argument in the abridgement which is used against conformity to the ceremonies did not in their judgement who were authors of the booke hold against the lyturgie , of which opinion we are also . 4 if these reasons be intended onely to shew why you receive not our forme of administration , it is that which ( we are perswaded you know ) we never required of you . if to disallow the use of the booke amongst us altogether in things lawfull , good and pertinent , they will not hold weight . 5 you are generally ( as you say ) loath to meddle with the affaires of other churches , unlesse you have been necessarily called thereunto . but when some upon the request ( as we suppose ) of private friends , and others out of their zeale and forwardnesse have laboured to draw many to separation from the sacrament , because ministred in a stinted lyturgie : wee cannot apprehend any just ground of this apologie . the rent is wide , and some brethren had their hands deepe therein , which made us at this present to crave your judgements , and the reasons thereof to make up the breach . 6 i. d. objecteth to master p. that his manner of preaching was disorderly in carrying that matter , he speakes of , to the classes , before he had declared to the church the equity of his refusing the ministers desired by the scriptures . and may not we with like reason object , that this manner of proceeding is disorderly in seeking to draw men to separation , because of stinted liturgie , before you had shewed to us or other brethren ( whom it may concerne ) by scripture , or reasons drawne from thence , that a stinted liturgie was unlawfull ? but of this wee may intreat more fully elsewhere . ii. position . that it is not lawfull to joyne in prayer , or receive the sacraments where a stinted liturgie is used , or as we conceive your meaning to be in this , as in the former question , viz. where , and when that stinted liturgie is used . answer . it seemeth by this your letter , the ground of this position hath beene the separation of divers from your assemblies , because of a stinted liturgie : and we are not ignorant of the rigid separation of divers people , who withdraw themselves from an able faithfull ministry , as no ministry of christ , and from their godly congregations as no churches of christ ; because of some corruptions from which ( through want of light , not love of the truth ) they are not throughly cleansed . against which practise we have ever witnessed . as for our judgement concerning the position it selfe , we would promise two things ; first concerning the persons reading this liturgie , which may be either an ungodly or unable minister , or an able and a godly . secondly , concerning the liturgie it selfe , which may be either of the whole or some select prayers , which may be conceived to be the least offensive . now if the question be of joyning in prayer with , and when that whole liturgie is used , or where that which is used , is read by an unable and ungodly minister , we then see not how it can be lawfull to joyne in prayer in such cases ; for 1 the prayers of the minister are not his private prayers , but the publike prayers of the whole assembly , whose mouth he is to god. and when the prayers offered up by the minister , as a living holy , and acceptable service to god , are not through humane frailty , but otherwise for matter and manner corrupt , wee see not what warrant any one hath to joyne with such prayers , mal. 1. 13 , 14. 2 when men ioyne therein with an insufficient ministry , they doe not only countenance them in their place and office , whom the lord hath rejected from being his priests . hos . 4. 6. but also set up those idolls and means of worship to edifie themselves by , which god never appointed in his holy word ezeck . 11. 17. but if the question be of joyning in some few select prayers read by an able and painfull minister out of that booke as on the one side wee are very tender of imputing sin to the men that so joyne : so on the other side , we are not without feare , least that such joyning may be found to be unlawfull : unlesse it may appeare that the ministers with whom the people have communion in reading those prayers doe neither give any scandall by reading of them nor give unlawfull honour to a thing abused to idolatry , and superstition , nor doe suffer themselves to be sinfully limited in the reading of them . reply . sufficient hath been spoken of the meaning of the position and the grounds thereof and if we have not mistaken your judgment & practice both , you have born witnesse against both that you call the rigid seperation , and this more moderate also ; and we humbly wish , the moderate doe not degenerate into the rigid ere long . it is very strange , if they take not great incouragement upon your grounds . the truth of our ministery , churches , ordinances , and calling is questioned , and where men will stay the lord knoweth , and what more common then that our liturgie is unlawfull , because it is the devise of man ; the author ( or publisher at least ) of a letter against our service booke beginneth with such like distinction . against this prayer-booke ( saith he ) divers have pleaded in a different manner . first some arguments are proper to the separatists qua tales , viz. that it is offered in a false church ; 2. by a false minister ; 3. in the behalfe of the subjects of the kingdome of antichrist . these are properly theirs , being the grounds whereupon they make a totall separation from all the churches in this land , as no churches of christ . these i approve not , yet note them that yee may see upon what different grounds , the same position is maintained by severall persons , and that yee may be delivered from the prejudice , which hinders many from receiving those truths , because they feare the reproach of brownisme . secondly , there are other grounds which are common to all that plead for the the puritie of christs ordinances , and which doe not necessarily inferre such separation , but only serve to shew the unlawfulnesse of that practise , and our communicating therein . thus the epistle wherein the same distinction of separation is noted : but how truly , let the indifferent judge . if none must be counted separatists , but such as have pleaded against the booke of common prayer as unlawfull , because offered up in a false church , &c. then are there none such in the world , that we have knowne or heard of : for it is apparent they cast us off as no churches of christ , because our service is a humane devise , will-worship , idolatry ; and not on the contrary , that our service is will-worship , or idolatry , because our churches are false churches . against all communion with us they plead , because we are a false church , but against our stinted liturgie they argue not in that manner . the grounds on which that authour builds ( which he saith are common to all , that plead for the purity of gods ordinances ) are one and the same with the grounds of the separatists , shafts taken out of the same quiver and peculiar to them , some few brethren onely excepted , who of late have looked towards that opinion . see how affection will transport . those reasons shall be common to all that plead for the purity of christs ordinances , which were never taken to be sound and true , either by the reformed churches abroad , or by the godly brethren at home , whether now at rest with the lord , or for the present living , or yet by the most of the brethren among whom they live , and with whom they hold societie , or by any minister or societie which did hold the unitie of the spirit in the bond of peace for the space of this 1400 yeares and upwards , by your owne confession , unlesse within these few dayes , and that by a few onely . if this be not to strengthen the hands of the separatists , or at least , to lay blocks of offence in their way , what is ? as yet we thinke most of them that have separated , are not so farre gone , as to condemne all our assemblies as no churches of christ , but we judge they have proceeded further then christ the lord and saviour of his church hath given them commission or allowance , that the grounds whereon they build are unsound , and such as make way for further danger , if the lord prevent not . and that the reasons mentioned in the letters are the proper grounds of separatists , and not common to all them that seeke the purity of religion , for they are not approved by your selves : and if all this tend not to turne them who halt , out of the right way , wee heartily intreate you to consider . your judgement concerning the position , you deliver in three propositions ( for so many they be for substance ) in respect of the persons reading the liturgie , or the thing it selfe that is read . as if any part of the liturgie bee read , ( put case some few selected prayers onely , by an unable and ungodly minister : it is unlawfull ( say you ) for the people to joyne in that case . but if it be unlawfull for the people to joyne , when an ungodly minister readeth some few select prayers , it is either in respect of the minister , or the prayers themselves . not of the prayers themselves , for they be select and choyce , faultlesse both in respect of matter and manner , as it is taken for granted , unlesse this distribution be to no purpose ; if in respect of the minister , then it is not lawfull to joyne with such a one in any ordinance of god whatsoever . for if the minister make it unlawfull , then all communion in any part of gods worship , with such ministers is unlawfull , and so the church in all ages of the world , the prophets , our saviour christ , the apostles , and the faithfull in the primitive churches sinned , in holding communion with such , when the priests were dumbe dogges that could not barke , and greedy dogges that could never have enough ; when the prophets prophefied lies , and the priests bare rule by their meanes ; when the priests bought and sold doves in the temple , and tooke upon them to provide such things for them that were to offer ; when the pharisees corrupted the law by false glosses , taught for doctrines mens precepts , made the commandements of god of none effect through their traditions , under pretence of long prayer devoured widowes houses , taught the law , but practised it not ; when they were such , and did such things , they were ungodly ministers ; but we never find that the prophets , our saviour , the apostles , did either forbeare themselves , or warne the faithfull not to communicate with such in the ordinance of worship . we reade our saviour charged his disciples , to beware of the leaven of the scribes and pharisees , to let them alone , because they were the blind leaders of the blind , but he never forbade to communicate with them in the ordinance of god. it is not then for private christians to withdraw themselves from the ordinance of worship , and communion of the church , because such are permitted to deale in the holy things of god , whom they judge or know unfit : when men joyne in the worship of god with unworthy ministers , they doe not countenance them in their place and office , but obey the commandement of god , who requires their attendance upon his highnesse in that way and meanes . to goe no further then the text you quote , because thou hast despised knowledge , i will also reject thee , &c. properly the text is spoken of the ten tribes called israel , and the priests among them who worshipped the calves which ieroboam had set up , whom the lord threatneth to reject , because they had rejected knowledge being either wilfully ignorant , or withholding the truth in unrighteousnesse . whether they were for the present absolutely rejected , or the lord threatens only to reject them we will not dispute . this may suffice that it is not to be found either in this or any other text of scripture , that the people joyning in the true worship of god , with unworthy ministers , do countenance them in their place thereby . on the contrary , if you will extend this text to all unworthy ministers of what sort soever , whom the word of truth doth condemne as not approved ministers of god , the scripture teacheth evidently not onely that the people by joyning do not countenance them in their place and office , but that they must and ought to joyne with them in the worship of god , and in separating from the ordinance they shall sinne against god , much lesse then do they in such joyning set those idols and meanes of worship , which god never appointed in his word . for the worship is of god , and the ministery is of god , the person unworthily executing his place , is neither set up by some few private christians , nor can by them be removed . and warrant to withdraw themselves from the worship of god , because such as ought not , are suffered to entermeddle in the holy things of god , they have none from god. dumbe dogs , greedy dogs , idol-sheepheards , false prophets , strangers , are unworthy ministers , but they that communicate with such in the ordinance of worship , are never said to set up idols or means of worship which god never appointed . the sheep of christ will not heare strangers in the lords sense , but outwardly they heard those strangers preach ( if the scribes and pharisees were such ) and by hearing them discovered them to be strangers , i. e. false prophets ; some strangers at least , of whom our saviour speaks , were of the true church , and of israel , but brought false doctrine tending to kill the soule , such strangers none should heare , that is , believe and follow : but as they be tolerated in the church , so they may hear them , so long as they bring the truth . unworthy ministers are no ministers for themselves , but they are ministers for the people of god , that is , so long as they be in the place of ministers , the acts of their administrations are of force to the faithfull , if they observe the forme of administration prescribed by christ ; for christs ordinances have their efficacy from him , not from them that serve about them , and evill ministers minister not in their own name , but in christs and by his commission . it hath evermore bin held for a truth in the church of god , that although somtimes the evill have chiefe authority in the ministration of the word and sacraments , yet for as much as they doe not the same in their own name but in christs , and minister by his commission and authority , wee may use their ministery both in hearing the word , and receiving the sacraments ; neither is the effect of christs ordinance taken away , by their wickednesse , nor the grace of gods gifts diminished from such as by faith , and rightly doe receive the sacraments administred to them which are effectuall ; because of christs institution and promise , although they be ministred by evill men . the reasons whereby the ancient churches condemned the donatists and catharists for their voluntary and seditious separation , and the moderne churches condemne the anabaptists for their unwarrantable departure from , and so renting of the body of christ , will hold against separation from the prayers of the congregation , because they are read by an ungodly minister . the second proposition . where the whole liturgie is used , though by an able and godly minister , it is not lawfull to joyne in prayer in that case . herein wee cannot be of your judgement ; for in the times of the prophets , and our saviour christ , as great abuses , no question , were found in the church of the jews in the administration of holy things of god as can be imagined in our liturgie or forme of prayer : but the prophets and our saviour who taught the people to keepe themselves pure and undefiled , never taught them to separate from the administration of the holy things of god. and if the presence at our forms of prayer be not lawful by reason of the corruptions alleaged , there can be no visible society named throughout the world since 200. yeeres after christ or thereabouts , wherein a christian might lawfully joyne in prayer , reading the scripture , hearing the word or participation of the sacraments . for compare the doctrines , prayers , rites at those times in use in the churches with ours , and in all these , ( blessed be the name of the lord ) wee are more pure then they . but no man will be so bold ( we hope ) as to affirme the state of the churches within 200. yeeres after christ , to be so miserably decayed that the faithfull could not without sin hold communion with them in the aforesaid ordinances . the prayers of the minister , whether conceived or stinted in a set forme , be not his private prayers , but the publike prayers of the whole assembly , whose mouth he is to god both in the one and the other . but you will not say , the people ought not to joyne with their pastor in the publique assembly , if ought bee amisse in his prayer for matter , or manner , or both . it is all one to the people in this case , whether the fault be personall ( as some distinguish ) or otherwise knowne beforehand or not knowne : for if simple presence defile , whether it was knowne beforehand or not , all presence is faulty . and if simple presence defile not , our presence is not condemned , by reason of the corruptions knowne , whereof we stand not guilty , whether the corruption , be through humane frailty or not , it is not in us to enquire , but rather whether we be called to come , and the faults such as one christian cannot or must not tolerate in another without breach of charity . for if the errour be such as may be tolerated , and i am called to be present ; by such fault i am not defiled though knowne before . if the error be such as in conscience may not be tolerated , though not knowne before hand , i am bound , if present some way to professe against it . this distinction of personall and ministeriall faults in this case untill it be cleared by some text of scripture or sound reason from the word , must goe for the divise of man. a church , a minister , or a christian may be stiffe in an error ( being misperswaded it is a truth ) after many meanes long used to convince them , with whom yet we must hold communion in the ordinances of religion : and the error may be such as we cannot without hypocrisy or denyall of the truth hold communion , though such meanes of conviction have not gone before . but the corruptions alleadged against our forme of prayer for matter or manner , are such as one christian may and must tolerate in another where he hath no power to redresse them . hath not christian wisdome and experience of humane frailties lessoned you ( deere brethren ) to beare one with another in matters of greater consequence then any have or can be objected truly against the form of prayer in use among us ? and why such corruptions should not be ascribed to humane frailty ; we see not : for if a godly minister make use of a book in things which he judgeth lawfull for matter and manner , the corruption in him that useth it according to his judgement , from what cause can it spring but humane ignorance and frailty ? we rest assured you question not the integrity of many , who make much more use of the booke then onely in a few select prayers . from the bottome of our hearts we desire and pray that god would remove out of his church and worship whatsoever offendeth for matter or manner , and that all things may be so done , not onely that they may be tolerated but that they might be approved in the conscience of all men . but we are perswaded that not onely some few select prayers but many prayers & other exhortations may lawfully be used , with fruit and edification to gods people . to aggravate faults especially when it tends to draw away people from the ordinances of god , is no lesse fault then to excuse them , it may be greater , and therefore we dare not esteeme the prayers read by a godly and faithfull minister according to the booke in use among us , a corrupt sacrifice whether in such as read them , or them that be present . in them that join according to christs command ( and liberty of absence from christ hath not beene shewed ) notwithstanding the corruptions , we hold the prayers to be an holy and acceptable sacrifice to god , and pleasing to jesus christ . the corrupt sacrifice is that , which the deceiver bringeth voluntarily , and out of neglect , having a male in his flock : but the faithfull bringeth himself and his godly desires according to the will of god , and as for corruptions , whether respecting matter or forme , they are none of his , they cleave not to his sacrifice to staine or pollute it . as for the text of the prophet mal. 1. 13 , 14. it is cited by many in this businesse , and to many purposes applyed , but we cannot finde that in the prophet for which it is here brought , the deceiver is accursed that offereth a corrupt thing to the lord. this we reade and beleeve , but that a godly man , being present at this forme of prayer among us , read by a godly and faithfull minister , is the deceiver , who offereth a corrupt thing unto the lord , that is not proved . no argument can be brought from this place to the purpose , but by analogy , which is a kinde of arguing of all other most ready at hand , but lyable to most exceptions , and apt to draw aside , if great care be not had , ( which in this place we finde not ) to take the proportion in every materiall point just and right . and we desire such as alleadge this passage of scripture against simple presence at the prayers of our liturgy , advisedly to consider whether god allow them to make such application of his truth which wee much doubt of , to say no more . your third proposition . that as you are very tender of imputing sinne to those men that joyne in some select prayers read by an able and godly minister : so on the other side you are not without feare , least such joyning may be found unlawfull , unlesse it may appeare that the ministers with whom the people have communion in reading those prayers , neither give any scandall by reading them , nor give unlawfull honour to a thing abused to idolatry and superstition , nor doe suffer themselves to be sinfully limited in the reading of them . 1 we cannot conceive how you should imagine the practice of a godly minister in reading some few select prayers to be scandalous or offensive in their congregations when the people generally , not in their assemblies onely , but throughout the whole land , were perswaded of the lawfulnesse of that course till now of late some have beene drawne away to separate , who yet by warrant of scripture produce nothing of weight to countenance that practice . 2 if the booke should be as you take it an idolathite , latent offence doth not oblige . if any man say unto thee , this is sacrificed to idols , eat it not , so that if it doe not manifestly appeare that this practice is scandalous ; it is not lawfull for the people to withdraw themselves . 3 the book ( we speake of the liturgie so far as it is sound and good ) by your confession is no idolathite , neither was it taken out of the masse-book in such sense as you object , but rather the masse & other idolatrous prayers were added to it , for popery is as a scab or leprosie cleaving to the church ; and many truths belonging to the church as her proper legacie were stolen and heaped together in that denne . and why the true man may not challenge his goods where ever he finds thē , or the thiefe plead title to the true mans goods by prescription , we know not ? it is no hard taske to shew that our service-booke was reformed in most things according to the purest liturgies which were in use in the church long before the masse was heard of in the world . and if that could not be shewed , yet formes of speech generally taken ( we speak not of this or that speciall word or phrase ) is no more defiled by idolatry then the light aire , or place where idolatry is committed . it is not unlawfull to pray , lord helpe , or lord have mercy , or to give thankes , praised bee god , because the papists say , lady helpe , or , praised be god and the virgin mary . fourthly , put case the minister in reading such prayers gives offence , or attributes unlawfull honour to a thing abused to idolatry and superstition , or suffer himself to be sinfully limited in the reading of them , what is that to the faithfull ? this can be no just ground of the people 's not joyning with them in the worship of god , for that offence is personall onely , and not the sin of them that be present , they joyn in prayer onely , and not in his reading or limiting himself . not to say that every particular person must be herein both accuser and judge . if he give offence must they stumble at the stone , and separate from the ordinance of grace ? wee should rather think it is their duty to look unto their feet , that they goe not awry . let it be shewed out of the word of god , that either the minister is guilty of giving unlawfull honour , or that the people may lawfully withdraw themselves in case he should do so , and we will then say as you do , but untill that be proved , ( being pressed and called to proffer our judgements ) we believe that separation is scandalous and sinfull , never taught of god , nor confirmed by the approved example of the godly in any age or time of the church : yea , against the positive law of god , injurious to the churches distracting christians , bringing contempt upon the ordinances of god , and defrauding believers of the spirituall food of their souls , which is indeed to infringe their christian liberty , and what ever may be thought of it now , in former times it hath been accounted no small offence . fistly , if this and such like scruples make it unlawfull to joyn in the ordenance of worship , we must hold communion with no society under heaven . for may not the brethren which hold all stinted , liturgies , and set forms unlawfull say with like strength of reason , it is unlawfull to joyn in conceived prayer with others , if either they give too little honour to it , as deeming the other lawfull , or sinfully limiting , or suffering themselves to be limited to one stinted forme , though conceived at first by them selves ? and may not the brethren who hold a stinted forme lawfull in like manner object ? it is unlawfull to joyn in prayer with them because they attribute too much honour to conceived prayer , as making their device and method the worship of god ? and may not the brethren which hold it lawfull to use some selected prayers according to the forms among us , upon the same grounds condemne communion with both sorts ? and all of them one with another , because they either limit themselves too much , or too little ? you say in the exposition of the first position , many preachers constantly use a set form of prayer of their own making before their sermons , must you not say upon this ground , that it is unlawfull to joyn with them , because they sinfully stint themselves ? in probability a christian may presume , that in the publike worship of god , there will be through humane ignorance & infirmity somwhat amiss for matter , or manner , or both , & that upon this ground , he must joyn with no society in any part of gods worshipat all . the advancing of every small difference to this height , is that which will bring all to confusion , if men walk uniforme to their own principles . it is well observed by master i. da. that unlesse men will yield so much favour each to other in some difference of opinions , a dissolving not onely of churches , but of humane societies also must necessarily follow , & not onely not two ministers , but not two men should live together , which were to put off even humanity it selfe . sixtly , wee have credibly heard that you hold fellowship with professed , rigid separatists without any acknowledgment of their errour , and receive them as members , or communicate with them in the priviledges of the church , though you professe you approve not their opinion or practice . and if in godly wisdome , you can see grounds to joyn with them , we marvell you should be so timorous in this particular . seventhly , if you judge the practice of such godly ministers , scandalous to them that separate from the ordinance , because it is not administred in this , or that , but in a stinted form . it is a scandall taken , and not given ; and by forbearing , if to confirme men in errour , be to scandalize them , they should offend them the more : yea , they should prejudice the truth , and it might be an occasion to beget needlesse scruples in others , and draw them ignorantly from the fellowship of the saints in the holy ordinances of god , and strengthen them who by your owne confession , are run too far into schisme already . iii position . that the children of godly and approved christmas , are not to be baptized untill their parents be set members of some particular congregation iv position . that the parents themselves , though of approved piety , are not to be received to the lords supper , untill they be admitted as set members . answ . these two positions may be maintained with one and the same defence , being somewhat coincident , and therfore we joyn them as if they were but one . therefore to prevent all mistakes , it may please you to take notice that we are not of their judgement who refuse all religious communion with such as are not church members , nor doe wee appropriate communion in this priviledge of the seals only to the members of our own churches , excluding all other churches of christ from the same , though they may be through errour or humane frailty defective in some matters of order , provided that the liberty of our churches be preserved , of receiving such satisfaction as is meet ( as well by letters of recommendation , or otherwise if it be requisite ) concerning those whom wee admit unto fellowship in the seals . for as we account it our duty to keepe the unity of spirit inviolate with any , in whom we discerne any fruits of the spirit , so we hold our selves bound to discharge this duty , according to order . spirituall cōmunion in prayers , holy conferences & other religious actions of like nature we maintain with al godly persons , though they be not in church order : but church communion we hold onely with church members admitting to fellowship of the seals the known and approved , & orderly recommended members of any true church . but into fellowship of the censures , admittance of members and choice of officers , onely the members of that particular church whereof they and we ( any of us ) stand members . these things being premised , the considerations whereupon our judgement and practice is swayed for administration of the seals onely to such as are in order of a true visible church are these that follow . reply . vvhat is here premised to prevent all mistakes , doth seem more to raise then to abate scruples if we mistake not your meaning . you refuse not all religious communion with all that are not church members , and so much they professe , who formerly have gone for , and professed themselves separatists from our assemblies . you do not appropriate this priviledge of the seals onely to the members of your own churches , excluding all other churches of christ from the same ; if your meaning be onely this , that you deny not the sacraments administred in other churches to be the true sacraments of christ for substance , then you ascribe little more to the churches of christ in this , then to the synagogue of satan , the church of rome . for you will not deny baptisme administred among them to be true for substance : if you deny not to have fellowship with them in the seals , and to admit them to the sacrament , and to communicate with them : then either your judgment is contrary to your practice , or you exclude the churches of england from the number of true visible churches of christ , which is to destroy what you formerly builded , and here professe . all possible care to keep the ordinances of god from contempt , we allow and commend , provided you go not beyond the lords warrant , and deny not the priviledges of the church to them , to whom they are due by divine appointment , nor the name and title of church to those societies , which god hath plentifully blessed with means of grace , have received the tables and seals , and have entred into covenant with his highnesse . your liberty to receive such satisfaction as is meet , is not called into question , nor whether you are to keep the bond of the spirit inviolate according to order . but whether this be to keep the bond of the spirit inviolate ( viz ) to exclude from the sacrament true visible believers , or knowne recommended christians , formerly members of visible churches among us ; and their children ; because they are not members ( as you speak ) in church order . and whether god alloweth to put this difference between church mēbers of your societies & other visible believers walking in holines , though not admitted members of any society according to your church order , as to receive the one , though members of another society , unto the seals , and to debar the other and their children . these are the things to be considered in these present positions . and first we will examine your reasons for your judgment and practice by themselves , and then so far as we judge meet , try your answers to the objections you make against it . 1 consideration . the seals baptism & the lords supper are given to the church , as a priviledge peculiar therto in ordinary dispensation . indeed the preaching of the word is not so , being an ordinance given not onely for the edifying of the church already gathered , but also for the gathering of men to the churches that yet are without : wheras the dispensing of the seals is gods ordinance , given onely for the edifying of the church being gathered , and not for the gathering of it : and because there is now , no universall visible church on earth wherein the seals are dispenced , there being no place , nor time , nor officers , nor ordinances appointed in the new testament by christ our lord , for any such assemblies as the iewes had under moses . it remains that the christian churches , whereunto these priviledges were given , are congregationall , consisting onely of so many as may and do meet together ordinarily in one place for the publike worshipping of god , and their own edifying . hence it is that we read so much in the new testament of the churches in the plurall number , the churches of christ , the churches of god , the churches of the saints : and not onely when they were of divers nations , the churches of the gentiles , but also of the same nation , the churches of iudea , and not onely when that country was of large extent and circuit , the churches of asia , but also of a small part of the country . the churches of galatia : yea , when congregations in severall cities are spoken of . they are called churches as the churches of ierusalem , the churches at antioch . to wind up all , seeing the churches in the gospell are congregationall , and that baptisme and the lords supper ( being church priviledges ) belong onely to the churches , it will follow , that as city priviledges belong onely to citizens and their children : so baptisme and the lords supper being church priviledges , belong onely to the members of particular churches , and their seed . and that seeing sigillum sequitur donum , to apply them to others what is it but to abuse them ? as a seal of a corporation is abused if added to confirme the grant of priviledges which are peculiar to any towne corporate to one that being no free-man of that corporation is uncapable thereof . reply . if by the church be understood the society of men , professing the entire faith of christ , the seales are given unto it as a peculiar priviledge ; but if by the church you understand onely a congregationall assembly in church order , the seales were never appropriated to it . but to examine every thing in order as it is propounded . 1 the seales , baptisme , and the lords supper , are given to the church as priviledges peculiar thereunto , not onely in ordinary ( as you say ) but also in extraordinary dispensation . true baptisme is not without the church , but within it ; an ordinance given to it , and they that are baptised , must needes be of a church . the sacraments are the seales of the covenant to the faithfull , which is the forme of the church , and when for substance rightly used , tokens and pledges of our spirituall admittance and entertainment into the lords family , and symbolls or testimonies whereby the people of god are distinguished from all other nations . this is most certain , as in the ordinary ; so in the extraordinary dispensation of the seales , as is confirmed by the texts of scripture alleadged in the margine . for the apostles ( as you say ) dispenced the seales in an extraordinary way , but the seales dispenced by the apostles were seales of the covenant , priviledges peculiar to the church , priviledges of spirituall admittance and entertainment into the lords family . and when you say the dispencing of the seals is an ordinance given onely for the edifying of the church being gathered , and not for the gathering of it , must it not be understood in extraordinary , dispensation as wel as ordinary : to what pupose then are those words ( in ordinary dispensation ) added to the proposition ? if thereby you would intimate that the sacraments be not the peculiar priviledges of the church , and seales of the covenant in extraordinary dispensation , it is evidently crosse to the text you cite , and to your selves afterward . if your meaning be , that in ordinary dispensation the sacraments doe of right belong to them onely , who bee set members of a visible congregation , it is all one with the conclusion , that which is in question and should be proved , and that which this very scripture doth plentifully disprove ; for they that were baptised were not set members of a particular congregationall church whereunto they were baptised , nor in a church way before baptisme ( as is evident and granted by the most of your selves ) but by baptisme solemnly admitted into the church , and then it is not for your purpose , or they were set members ( as some of the brethren seeme to contend in answer to the objection framed against this consideration ) and then the words are more then superfluous . added , they were to prevent the objection which you foresaw might be made from the apostles practice and example but so as they cut asunder the sinews of the consideration it selfe , and make it of no force . for as those beleivers were of the church : so are approved christians and their seed among us : therefore the priviledges of the seales belong unto them . 2 and as the seales : so is the word of salvation preached and received a priviledge of the church . if by the preaching of the word you understand nothing but the tender of salvation or the publishing of the will of god , concerning the salvation of man , whether by private or publike persons ; it is not proper to the church but an ordinance given for the gathering of men to the church , and not only for the edifying of the church . for the apostles first preached to the gentiles when infidels , that they might be converted ; and we doubt not but a minister or private christian comming into a country of infidells , may as occasion is offered , and as they shall be inabled , instruct and perswade them to receive the faith of christ : but if by the preaching of the word be meant the giving of the word to a people , to abide and continue with them , and consequently their receiving of it at least in profession then it is proper to the church of god. the word makes disciples to christ , and the word given to a people is gods covenanting with them , and the peoples receiving this word and professing their faith in god through iesus christ is the taking of god to bee their god. the lawes and statutes which god gave to israell , was the honour and ornament to that nation , and a testimony that god had separated them from all other people , even the gentiles themselves being iudges . the word of reconciliation is sent and given to the world reconciled in iesus christ , and they that receive the doctrine , law , or word of god are the disciples , servants and people of god. in your second consideration you intimate that there is a two fold preaching , the one by office and authority , the other in common charity , or how ever else it may be called . for thus you write . god hath joyned to preach ( viz by office ) and to baptize together , therefore we may not separate them . now to preach unto , that is to instruct or counsell in charity is a duty which may be performed to an infidell , but to preach by office is proper to them that are called to that office : and so to be taught and instructed by officers in the church is proper to the church . to have pastors who shall feed with knowledge and understanding is a gift of matrimoniall love which god vouchsafeth unto his church . the apostles first gathered churches and then ordained elders in everie citie or church ; so that it is proper to the church to be fed and guided by true spirituall pastors who teach and blesse in the name of the lord. and if the word preached and received bee a certaine note of the true church , they that have intyrely received the word of salvation and have pastors godly and faithfull to feede and guide them , they and their seed have right and interest unto the seales in order . moreover the true worship of god is an inseparable and infallible marke of the true church of god , for where christ is , there is his church . this is the prerogative of the church . the prince shall be in the midst of them , and he shall go in when they goe in , &c. and christ saith , where 2. or 3. are met together in my name there am i in the middest among them . and for certain they are gathered in the name of christ that being lawfully called doe assemble to worship god and call upon his name in the mediation of iesus christ . in times past , the church was acknowledged by the feare of god , and entyre service of his majestie , by the professing of the true faith and faithfull calling upon gods name . the signes of apostolike churches are these . the continuance in the apostles doctrine and fellowship , and breaking of bread and prayer . and if faith , true and lively ( though mixed with many doubtings and errors ) make a man a living member of iesus christ , the entyre profession of true faith joyned with holynesse of life in some measure answerable thereunto , makes a man a true member of the visible church . and if the seales belong to the church in right and orderly dispensation , they that joyne together in the true worship of god , according to his will , with godly and faithfull pastors , they have right and title to the sacraments according to divine institution . thirdly , that there is now no visible catholike church in your sense will easily bee granted ▪ i. e. there is no universall society consisting of all such as are accounted or to bee esteemed christians , subjected to one or many vniversall pastors or guides , wherwithall subordinates must communicate in some sacred things which may make them one church and which may and can be performed by that vniversall and head church only . such an vniversall christian church christ never ordained , no not in the dayes of the apostles , to whom all the care of all the churches , was committed . the churches planted by the apostles had all the same substantiall lawes and customes , the same guides and officers for kinde , the same ordinances of worship and meanes of salvation : but one flock or society in the fore mentioned acceptation they were not , because they were but subordinate to one visible head . christ , with which they were to hold union and communion in some worship to be performed by them all jointly assembled at some speciall solemnity , nor subjected to the government of any supreame tribunall constantly to be erected and continued among them . neverthelesse , in some respects of reason , the visible church , may be called the church , sheepfold or flock of christ ; for if the whole society or body mysticall of christ be one , this church militant in like sort is one : the unity of which society consists in that uniformity , which all severall persons thereunto belonging , have by reason of that one lord whose servants they all are , and professe themselves , that one spirit whereby they are animated as the body by one soul ; whereby they believe in christ , and which they acknowledge and professe , that one baptisme inward and outward , whereby they put on christ , and are initiated . this society is one in the inward fruition and enjoying of the benefits of christs death and resurrection , and in outward profession of those things which supernaturally appertain to the very essence of the church , and are necessarily required in every christian , this acceptation of the word is not unusuall in scripture . as god hath set some in the church . his bodies sake which is the church . the church viz. whereof paul was made a minister , and whereunto the rest of the apostles were ordained , which was the catholike visible church , the society of men professing the faith of christ throughout the world , divided into many particular churches whereof some are pure , others impure , some more , others lesse sound . hereunto it may be added , that every multitude and society of believers are indefinitely called the church , i persecuted the church of god. the house of god which is the church of the living god. in which sense all the churches in the world may truly be called one . and thus the apostle peter writing to many dispersed churches , who could not assemble in one place nor be fed by one shepherd , speaketh of them singularly as one flock . feed the flock of god which is among you . but that flock are the strangers dispersed through pontus , galatia , asia , cappadocia , and bythinia , which could not possibly joine together in the ordinances of worship , or make one distinct congregated assembly . and if the catholike militant church be one society ; the seals that are given as a prerogative to the church are given unto it , and the true members of the catholike church have right and title to them in due order , though they be not admitted into the church fellowship you speak of . for as the flock or society is one : so is the ministery , faith , covenant , and sacraments , which are given as a communion prerogative unto the whole church , and not appropriated to this or that part or member , as separated from the whole ; which is further evidenced hereby , that sometime it hath , and too often it may fall out , that a christian may be a true member of the universall visible church ( i. e. he may hold , professe , and maintain that holy catholike faith , pure , and undefiled , without which no man can be saved ) who for the present is no actuall member of any particular or visible society in church order . as for example , a man may be cut off by excommunication , from all commerce with the present visible church wherein hee was bred and born , when hee is not cut off from the catholike , orthodox all church . hee may be deprived of participation of the ordinance in every particular society , when his right and title to them is much better then these who have most injuriously cast him out , or debarred him of the means of salvation . the communion of saints , whether visible or invisible is the effect and property of the church catholike , and agreeth to the severall parts and members thereof , as they be members of that body under the head , and if particular churches have communion together it must of necessity be , that they bee parts and members of the whole body which is one . 4. though there be no universall congregation or assembly nor can be imagined , yet there are and have beene many visible assemblies or societies , true churches of christ , to whom the prerogative of the seals is given , which have not beene united and knit together , in church-order into one congregationall body or society , for every society in covenant with god is the true church of god : for what is it to be the flock , people or sheepe of god , but to be the church of god ? and where there is a covenant , there is the people of god. they that are of the faith of abraham , are the children and seed of abraham , and within the covenant of abraham ( though but two or three ) and so of the same church with him by that covenant . the communication on and accepting of the tables of covenant is an undoubted token of a people in convenant or confederate , but every society professing the true and entire faith , joyning in prayer and thankesgiving , receiving the truth of god to dwell among them , and in some measure conforming themselves to the obedience of gods commandements , is in covenant with god. it is simply necessary to the being of a church that it be laid upon christ the foundation , which being done , the remaining of what is forbidden , or the want of what is commanded , cannot put the society from the title or right of a church . for christ is the foundation and head corner stone of the church , and a people comming unto christ , united unto him , built upon him , having communion with him and growing up in him , are the true church of god : and if the seals be annexed to the covenant by god himselfe , as we cannot deny a people in covenant to be the church , so we must not deny their right and title to the sacraments . if therefore the meaning of the proposition be that the seales be given to the church , that is , to true and sound christians , and people in covenant with god , as a priviledge whether in ordinary or extraordinary dispensation we accept it as good and sound , but it makes against your judgement and practice in keeping away such as have right and title to the ordinances . if you meane the seales are given to the church , that is , onely to set members of some particular society combined by covenant ( as it is among you ) we cannot receive it , because it implieth a distinction not taught in scripture , and crosse to your selves . and for the thing it selfe the scripture hath nothing but many things against it as hath beene shewed . 5 if it be granted that the seales are the prerogative of a particular visible church , known and approved christians among us , and their seed are members of true and visible churches , and so to be esteemed among you before they be entred into church membership as you call it . for every society professing the intire and true faith , and joyning together in the right use of the sacraments in matters substantiall is the true church of god , and every visible beleever receiving the word and professing , the true intire faith , admitted to the right and lawfull participation of the sacraments is a visible member of the true church , if he have neither renounced that society , nor deserved justly to be cast out by excommunication or church censure . for the intire profession of the truth , the dwelling of the truth among men , the right use of the sacraments ( which is ever joyned with truth of doctrine , and to be esteemed by it ) is proper to them that be in covenant with god. and they that truly partake of the seales must needes be of a church , for the seales are not without but within the church an ordinance given unto it , and if they be true members of the true churches of jesus christ , other churches , are bound to hold communion with them in the ordinance of worship as divine providence shall minister occasion . in answer to the ninth position you say the members of other churches , well known and approved by vertue of communion with churches , doe mutually and with good acceptance communicate each of them at others churches , even so often as gods providence leads them thereunto , and themselves desire it . in your preface to this consideration , you say you admit to fellowship of the seales , the known , approved , and orderly recommended members of any true church , and if knowne and approved christians , members of our churches comming over into new england shall desire either to have their children baptized , or to be admitted themselves to the lords supper before they be set members of any society the●e , we desire to know upon what grounds from god you can deny them , if you acknowledge our churches ministery , and sacraments , to be true and of god ( as you professe ) and the members of the church be known and approved , orderly recommended unto you . it is the priviledge of christians baptised themselves , and walking in the faith , that their children should have right to baptisme in all true churches in the world . it is the priviledge of christians lawfully and justly admitted to the lords supper in one visible church , and walking in covenant with god , that they have right to this priviledge in all churches professing their intire faith , and you must shew just and sound reasons from god of your judgement and practice in debarring their seed from baptisme , and parents themselves from the supper , or else ( to use the words of a reverend elder among you , in a case of lesse importance , and not concerning so many ) you will be found guilty of adding to the words , and making eleven commandements , and setting up humane customes , and selfewill against gods appointment . for the sacraments are given to the church as a priviledge peculiar thereunto , but you deny this priviledge to the true visible members of the church , ( as your selves confesse . ) for if the ministers be the ministers of christ , and their congregations the churches of christ , then knowne and approved christians are members of the church . in your opinion the members of the jewish church might be received unto baptisme , upon confession of the christian faith before they were entred into church fellowship , and it is more then strange to us that you should not thinke the true visible members of the churches of christ to have as much title and interest to the seales , as the members of the jewish church to the sacrament of baptisme . 6 the distinct churches mentioned in the new testament , it is not certain that they were congregationall societies consisting onely of so many as might and did meete together ordinarily in one place at one time for the publike worship of god , and their own edification , and if this were granted it would not carry the weight that was laid upon it , but because it may make way for the clearing of some other points pertaining to discipline and church order , we intreat leave to set downe , and desire you to examine what may be objected against it . we will not insist upon this that the least circuite wherein there is mention of churches , is ample enough to containe some diocesses and the least city , populous enough to make many numbersome congregations . nor upon this , that to meete at one time and one place , as one assembly is a thing meerely accidentary to the unity of the church and society ecclesiasticall which is still one , when they are dispersed asunder , and no particular man of that society at first remaining now alive . the number of beleevers was so great in some cities as they could not conveniently meete in one place as one assembly to worship the lord according to his will and for their edifying . that there was a church gathered in the city of samaria by the ministery of phillip will not be denyed , for they received the word and were baptised , but that the church in that city was onely a congregationall assembly is more then can probably be concluded out of scripture . for the whole city or the greatest part could not ordinarily assemble in one place to their edification : but the whole city of samaria , in a manner , ( as it is probable ) imbraced the faith . as the whole city from the least to the greatest had given heede to simon magus before , so to phillip now when he preached christ , and the text saith expresly that samaria received the gospell . the christian church at ierusalem was one and distinct , but it grew and increased first to 3000. then to 5000. afterwards multitudes of men and women were added , and the multitude of disciples increased ; it is also noted that a company of the priests received the faith . the syriacke hath it of the jews , ( scil . ) inhabiting judea , but the greeke , arabian , vulgar , chrisostoms & ethiopians approve the former , and the number of the priests was not small : there is mention also of millions of beleevers . and when all the apostles , or the greatest part of them remained at jerusalem for a time continuing in the ministery of the word and prayer , and that they might doe it the more earnestly and diligently , left the care of the poore to others : how can we thinke but that church did grow exceedingly , and the number of beleevers there to be more then could fitly meete ordinarily in one congregation . without question the number of beleevers in antioch was not small , of which it is said expresly , that a great number beleeved , turned to the lord and that a great multitude was added to the lord by the preaching of barnabas , and that paul and barnabas continued there one whole yeere preaching the word of god , and teaching the multitude , so that the disciples were first called christians at antioch . after that this church was visited by paul and barnabas , who continued there teaching and preaching the word of god with many others also , and may wee not thinke that this church did quickly rise to such bignesse that they could not well assemble in one congregation as now wee call them ? it will easily be credited that the number of believers was not small at ephesus , if we call to minde that when paul had been there but two yeers , all they that dwelt in asia had heard the word of the lord both iews and grecians , that a great doore and effectuall was opened to him at ephesus , that the art for making shrines , and dianaes temple was in danger to be set at nought , and that those that had used curious arts , came and burnt their books in the sight of all men , which could not be done without great danger unto the church , unlesse a great part of the city had believed . where a church did comprehend a city with its suburbs and the country circumjacent , i. e. the believers who professed the faith within that circuit . it might well be that the number did so increase through the extraordinary blessing of god , which accompanied the preaching of the word in those primitive times , and first planting of the heavenly kingdome , that they could not well meet ordinarily in one place , and yet continued one society . for when a number is gathered in small villages , or some added to the number already gatherd , it is not meet they should be neglected because small , nor divided from the body , because the number not competent to make an intire and perfect body of it selfe . the increase of the churches doth require an increase of elders , and ( if they grow to bignesse more then ordinary ) an increase of places for their assembling , when the essence of the visible church is not changed , nor one multiplied or divided into many . and it is more available for the good of the church , and further removed from all ambition , if the society shall assemble occasionally in divers places as parts and members of the body , then to constitute a distinct free society consisting of a few believers , not fit to make up an intire body contrary to the precedent examples of the apostles . in times of grievous and hot persecution the churches of god could not assemble in any great number in publick places , but have been compelled to meet in woods , caves , dens , and dark corners , as the lord hath offered opportunity , one and the same society in sundry places : so that either it is not essential to the church to meet together in one place ordinarily , or their society is broken off by persecution , when their meeting together in one place is interrupted . it is said by some where the church grew greater , sometimes by the suddain and extraordinary conversion of more then could well so assemble , then was there presently a dispersion of the former , and a multiplication of more particular assemblies . but in the scriptures quoted no such thing doth appeare , but rather the contrary as hath been proved . in aftertimes when the church was within the cities as of rome , ephesus , alexandria , carthage , ierusalem , &c. the number of believers did greatly exceed the bignesse of a convenient and fitting assembly which might ordinarily congregate in the place to worship god according to his appointment when the church was but one . seventhly . seeing them both the seals in ordinary and in extraordinary dispensation belong to the church , id est , to the faithfull , and repentant , taught made disciples , who have received the word , believe , and professe the faith , have received the holy ghost , and walke in obedience , who are members of other visible churches , or to be made members of a visible church for the time being , by admittance unto the sacraments , and not unto set members of congregationall assemblies only . and seeing the godly and faithful ministers among us are the true ministers of christ , and their godly congregations , true churches , and knowne , and approved christians , true members of visible churches formerly baptized , and admitted to the lords supper . this consideration is of no weight to justifie your opinion and practice in debarring known and approved christians , professing the faith , members of the true visible churches amongst us from the lords supper , or their seed from baptisme , because they be not yet received as set members of some particular cōgregation amongst you : and if such believers are not to be received to the seals , we desire you to consider if ever the sacraments of the new testament , were rightly dispensed in the church of the new testament from the first plantation thereof unto this day . the seale doth follow the grant , and as the seale is prophaned , if it be put to a false grant or charter , so are the faithfull wronged if the seale in a lawfull way desired , be denied to them that have received the grant , i. e. have right unto jesus christ , and communion with him . but the faithfull who have received the word with gladnesse , believe , and professe , be members knowne and approved by other visible churches , or such as desire to be admitted members of that visible society for the time by communicating in the ordinance , are already partakers of the grant or charter , have right and interest in christ , may lawfully desire the seals , and may be admitted as members for the time being of that particular society . therefore to debar such , from the lords supper , and their seed from baptisme , is against the law of nature , and the positive law of god , an injury to the faithfull and their seed , a wrong to the catholike visible church , that particular society , and the pastors themselves that so debar them . they sinned grievously who deferred baptisme to the end of their life , and the negligence of pastors and teachers who did not instruct the ignorant and reprove the superstitious , was great . and is not the severity in debarring such as crave and desire to be admitted to the seals an injury to be reprehended ? answ . 2 confider the ordinary administration of the seales is limited to the ministery and the ministery to a particular church ; therefore the seals also must necessarily be proper to the church and to the members thereof . 1 that the administration of the seales is limited to their ministery is evident from the first institution math. 28. 19. where god hath joyned ( to preach ) viz. by office , and ( to baptize ) together , therefore wee may not separate them . for howsoever : any man may by the appointment of the lord and master of the family , signifie his minde and deliver his message from him to the family , yet the dispensing of a fitt portion of food to everie one of the houshold is a branch of the stewards office . indeed the keies are given to the whole church yet the exercise and dispensation of them in this as well as in other particulars is concredited to the ministers who are called to bee 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , 1 cor. 4. 1. and no church office can be orderly performed by any , but one that is called therunto nor will god vouchsafe his presence , and blessing ( wherupon all spirituall efficacy depends ) in an ordinance dispensed , but when it is dispensed by those whom he hath ordayned and appointed thereunto . 2 that the ministery is limited to the church appeares as from evident texts of scripture : so also upon this ground . 1 the office is founded in the relation betweene the church and the officer , wherfore take away the relation , and the office and the worke ceaseth . for where he hath not power , he may not doe an act of power , and he hath not powerwhere he hath not a relation by office . herein the proportion holdeth between an officer of a towne corporate , and of a church that as the power of the former is only within his owne corporation : so the power of the latter is confined to his owne congregation . reply . the proposition is granted that the dispensation of the sacraments in the new testament both ordinary and extraordinary is limited to the ministery . but in that you alleadge for confirmation , somethings may be noted . 1 the first institution of baptisme is not contained in that passage math. 28. 19. but confirmed ; for the seales of the new testament were instituted by christ before his death , and his disciples had baptized many which they could not doe before the institution of the sacrament . secondly we see not how you can apply that text to preaching by office , which according to our exposition must bee a dispensing of a fit portion of food to everie one of the houshould . for it is plaine the apostles were sent forth to preach to everie creature or unto the world , to convert men unto god , to make them disciples and not to preach unto disciples only , or members of the houshold . the apostles certainly had authority , and preached by authority , but they preached not to infidells and heathens , as to disciples or members of the church , much lesse did they give a portion to them as to the houshold which is the preaching by office , which you acknowledge . thirdly if under the power of the keyes you comprehend preaching by office , dispensing the seales , casting out , and receiving againe into the bosome of the church wee deny the power of the keyes to belong to the church or community of the faithfull : we cannot find in scripture that christ ever granted such power to the faithfull , as faithfull joyned together in covenant in those passages which speake of this power , the execution of this authority is given to them to whom the authoritie is committed . if the power of the keyes be given to the whole church the apostles themselves must derive their authoritie immediatly from the church , and not from christ , for the power must be derived from them , unto whom it was give ; but their power , and authority was not from the church ; but from christ immediatly . and if the dispensation , and exercise of the keyes , be concredited to the ministers ; doth it hold in all things or onely in the dispensation of the sacraments , and preaching by office ? doe they dispense the seales as the stewards of christ , from whom they receive their authority immediately or as the servants of the church , from which they derive their authority ? if in the first sense ; the power of the keys is not in the community of the faithfull . if in the second , the office of a minister is not the immediate gift of christ , nor the minister , so much the servant of christ , as of the church , from whom he must receive lawes , in whose name he must doe his office , and to whom he must give an account . we could wish you had explained in what sense , you hold the dispensation , and execution of the power of the keyes is concredited to the ministers , and by whom . for if the community of the faithfull have to doe in all matters concerning the body , to admit members , and cast them out , to make and depose ministers , to bind and loose by authority derived from christ , wee cannot see how in your judgement the dispensation , and execution of the power of the keyes is concredited to the ministers . fourthly that which you add , that god will not vouchsafe his presence and blessing to an ordinance but when it is dispenced by those , whom hee hath ordayned and appointed thereunto , must bee warily understood , or it may occasion errors and distractions not a few , you know what corruptions soone entred into the church of god , both in respect of doctrine , worship , offices , and entrance thereunto , and how ready and apt is the conclusion from your words , that christ hath not vouchsafed his presence , and blessing in his ordinances to his church ? but of this before . and on the contrary , seeing god hath vouchsafed his blessing in his ordinances dispensed by your selves , when you stood as visible ministers in the congregation , and churches of old england , you must confesse , did approve both your standings and his ordinances dispensed by you . secondly , as for the assumption , that pastors and teachers are limited to a particular charge or society ; but that flock is not ever one congregationall assembly meeting in one place , neither the band so streight , whereby they are tied to that one society , that they may not upon occasion performe some ministeriall act or office in another congregation , or to them that be not set members of their proper assembly . for first to dispence the seals of the covenant is a ministeriall act , an act of office , and not an exercise of gifts onely : but the pastors of one assembly may dispence the sacrament to the set members of another society upon occasion , as you confesse in this and in your answer to the ninth position . and if the members of one church may lawfully upon occasion receive the sacrament of the supper in another society from the pastor thereof , then may the pastor of one congregation performe a ministeriall act to the members of another , and if to the members of another then in another congregation with consent , and upon occasion . secondly , as the ministers are exhorted to feed their flock : so is every christian and minister to try and examine himselfe whether hee be in the faith , but you will not allow this conclusion . i must examine my self . ergo , no man is debarred from the sacrament for his unworthinesse , or to be tried or examined by others , to be observed , admonished , and brought to repentance for notorious sin . no more can it be rightly gathered from the former passages of scripture , that the minister is not upon occasion to performe any ministeriall act to any other people or society , because ordinarily he is to attend his own flock . thirdly , as the ministers have peculiar relation to their particular flocks , so the people unto their particular ministers , unto whom they are tied in speciall manner , as to their overseers , who must give account for theirsouls . and if this peculiar relation betwixt the people & the minister doth not hinder the people from receiving the lords supper at the hands of another minister ; nor the minister from performing the ministeriall act to the members of another congregation . neither doth his peculiar relation to his own flock hinder him , from administring unto others upon just occasion being intreated thereunto . as the combining of the people to their peculiar minister , doth not quite cut off their communion with other ministers : so neither doth the restraining of a minister to a peculiar flock quite cut him off from administring upon occasion : unto another people . paul appointeth the ephesian elders unto the care & charg onely of their own particular flock , but so to attend them ordinarily according to the rules of the scripture ; that as occasion was offered , might performe some ministeriall acts in another congregation . the taking heed unto their flocks which paul requires in this place doth cōprehend under it the administration of the word , prayer , and sacrament , and if it must be restrained to their owne particular churches onely , it is unlawfull for a pastor to preach or call upon the name of god in any publike assembly save his own , upon any occasion , as these be duties prtaining to common confession or profession of faith . ordinary pastors and teachers it is true , are not apostles , who are to go from place to place , from country to country , to plant and erect churches , but they are tied ordinarily to one flock , as the text proveth , and to which purpose it is commonly cited . but that a pastor is so tied to his flock , that he can perform no ministeriall act to any other upon any occasion that it proveth not , nor can we find that it was ever so understood by divines ancient or modern . w. b. telleth us , the learned bring these allegations to this purpose . but the authour in alledging the consent of the learned was very carelesse or much abused , for there is not one that speaketh to the purpose . i. d. disclaimeth that position ; and for the rest it is a matter notorious , they were never thought to be of that opinion ; and wee doubt not if any could be named to free this allegation from suspition of novelty , you would have cited one or more as you have done in that which followeth . feed the flock of god ( saith peter . ) but he speaks of all those dispersed churches to whom he writes , which he calls a chosen generation , a royall priesthood ▪ a peculiar people : and in some respect of reason , under which we may apprehend them , are one flock , but not really as combined under the same pastor , or meeting in one place . and as these dispersed believers , or societies make one flock : so the ministers attending their flocks or societies , and the ministery exercised by them is , or maketh one . 4 a minister chosen and set over one society , is to looke unto his people committed to his charge , and feed the flock over which the lord hath made him overseer , but he is a minister in the church universall , for as the church is one , so is the ministery one , of which every minister ( sound or orthodox ) doth hold his part , and though he be minister over that flock onely which he is to attend , yet he is a minister in the universal church . the functiō or power of exercising that function in the abstract , must be distinguished from the power of exercising it , concretely , according to the divers circumstances of places . the first belongeth to a minister every where in the church , the latter is proper to the place and people where he doth minister . the lawfull use of his power is limited to that congregation ordinarily . the power it self is not so limited and bounded . in ordination , presbyters are not restrained to one or other certaine place , as if they were to be deemed ministers there onely , though they be set over a certain people . and as the faithfull in respect of a community betwixt them , must and ought to performe the offices of love one to another , though of different societies , so the ministers in respect of their communion , must and ought upon occasion to performe ministeriall offices towards the faithfull of distinct societies . 5 if this be not so , what shall become of the poore flock when the pastor is driven away by personall persecution , so that he cannot , if others may not afford them helpe and succour : what when the congregation it selfe is dispersed , must no sheepherd receive them into fold , when they are driven from their own , or neglected by him ? 6 if the pastor may be absent from his flock upon necessary , just , and weighty occasion , respecting his own good , the good of that society , or the common good of churches consociate , then may the pastor , the soaiety , the churches procure some man to supply the defect , and doe the office of a pastor , preach the word , pray , and as occasion is offered , administer the sacrament in that congregation unto that assembly untill their sheepheard shall returne . shall the people be left as sheepe without a sheepheard ; because for the good of the churches their owne sheepheard is called from them for a time , that he might returne with greater joy and comfort ? the pastor is appointed to feed his own flock , and yet for the good of the whole church he may be called to leave , if not the care , yet the over-sight of his flock fot a while ; and by the same reason a pastor of another flock or congregation may performe the office , and doe the acts of a minister in his congregation during absence : yea if for the good of the churches he be called away , doe not the churches stand obliged in conscience to provide that the flock sustain to hurt by his absence which possibly yee cannot doe if one minister may not performe a ministeriall act in another congregation . 7 if the prophets of one church may prophesy in another , and apply their doctrines , exhortations and prayers to any of the occasions of the churches where they speake , whereof they are not set members , what hinders why the pastor of one congregation , may not preach and pray , administer the sacraments in another ? the pastor of one congregation is appointed to his peculiar charge , but he is a minister in the universall church , as well as the prophets of one church may bee called prophets of the universall church by vertue of that communion which all true churches have one with another . without consent the prophet may not prophesie by exhortation , and with consent the pastor may administer the sacraments . 8 in the primitive churches when elders were ordained in every city , they were not onely to looke to their flock but indeavour the conversion of poore infidels among whom they lived , and the inlargement of christs kingdome , for the worke of the lord must be done in its season , and then was the time of the calling of the gentiles : it was not their office proper and essentiall to travail from countrey to countrey as did the apostles , nor were they pastors of the infidels , but by private instruction and publique teaching ( if any of them would bee penitent ) they were to labour the comming of them to god. and these infidels converted to the faith were to be baptised of the elders ordinarily in those cities , though the number might bee so great as they could not well meete in one congregation , nor be subject to the same pastor ; for either they must bee baptized by the pastors among whom they lived , ( being converted to the faith ) or continue unbaptized untill they were a number convenient to make a distinct society , or grow together into one body , and to elect and choose their own minister by whom they may be baptised : but that either they must stay so long without baptisme , or that a society of unbaptised men had power in those times to elect and choose their minister , by whom they should be baptised is contary to all presidents in scripture . 9 and so if a pastor may not performe a ministeriall act to any other person or people but his own flock onely , then a company newly converted from infidelity , which cannot joyne themselves as set members to another assembly , must remain unbaptised till they have chosen their minister to doe that office . then must the people thus converted want officers til there be among themselves able men to pray , preach , exhort in the congregation at the ordination of their minister , or ( if that may bee omitted ) till there be fit men among them to examine the fitnesse of him that is chosen . 10 if subtile heretikes arise , and seduce , and draw away many from the faith , and the body of the society be not able to convince them , either they must be let alone or cast out without conviction , for neighbouring ministers stand in peculiar relation to their flocks onely , and must not meddle beyond their calling according to your tenent . 11 there is no precept or example in scripture more to warrant the admitting of a set member of one congregation unto the supper in another , or the baptising of his child , occasionally in another assembly then there is for receiving of knowne and approved christians , and their seede that are not set members . the pastor is no more the pastor of the one then of the other , nor the one more of his flock then the other , neither of them set members , and both sorts may be members for the time being , and they most properly who are of longest abode among them . but as we heare it is frequent among you ( as at dorchester , &c. ) to baptise the children of another assembly , and usually you admit to the supper of the lord , members of other churches , and therefore the minister is not so limited to his particular church or flock but he may dispence the seales to others , which in this consideration is denyed . 12 if the want of one officer in a congregation for a time , may be supplyed by another , as the want of the doctor , ruling elder , or deacon , by the pastor ; why may not the defects of some congregation or christians be supplyed by pastors or ministers of another congregation , when they are requested and desired ? the minde herein is godly , and the means lawfull , and well pleasing unto god. 13 and if a synod consisting of sundry members of particular churches , met together in the name of christ about the common and publike affaires of the churches shall joyn together in prayer and communion of the supper , wee can see no ground to question it as unlawfull , although that assembly be no particular congregation or church , hath no pastor over them , make not one ecclesiasticall body as a particular congregationall church , unlesse it be for the time onely . the minister therefore may do an act of office to them that be not set members of his flock as he may stand in relation to them for the time . 14 your comparison betwixt an officer of a town corporate , and of a particular congregation is not alike , unlesse you will say that a member of another corporation occasionally comming into the towne , is thereby a member of that society , and subject to the authority of the officer . for so you professe that the members of one society may occasionally communicate with another , and so be subject to the pastor for the time being , which if you grant , it overthrows the whole strength of this consideration . howsoever the comparison it selfe is very perilous if it be pressed . for if the officer of a town corporate , presume to doe an act of power out of his owne corporation , it is a meer nullity , but if a minister of the gospell dispence the sacrament of baptisme , or the lords supper to believers of another society ( though done without consent ) it was never deemed or judged a nullity in the church of god. let the comparison hold good , and most christians have cause to question whether they be truly baptized , or ever lawfully received the sacrament of the lords supper . if it may not be doubted , whether ever the sacraments of the new testament were truly or by authority dispenced , especially if we consider what follows in the other considerations . this argument from comparison is very usuall in the writings of brethren against communion with our churches , but for the most part greatly mistaken , to say no more . answer 3 consideration . circumcision and the passoever were to be administred onely to the members of the church . ergo , baptisme and the lords supper is so to be administred also . the consequence is made good by the parity of these ordinances . for if the argument hold strong for the proofe of paedo-baptisme which is taken from the circumcision of infants , why may we not as well infer a necessity of church membership to baptisme , from the necessity of it to circumcision . and that circumcision was peculiar to the church members of the church , may appeare in that persons circumcised , & onely they , might eat the passeover , and they onely might enter into the temple , which were the priviledges of church members . in our answer to the second objection against the first consideration we have shewed that circumcision was not administred to all that were under the covenant of grace ( which all believers were ) but onely such of them as joyned themselves to the church , at first in abrahams family , whereunto baptisme doth so far answer that the apostle counteth these expresse equivalent to be circumcised in christ with circumcision made without hands , and to be buried with christ in baptisme . indeed , in somethings they differ as onely the males were circumcised , whereas with us females are also baptized . the reason is because god hath limited circumcision to the males , but under the gospel , that difference is taken away . againe , circumcision was administred in the private family ; but baptisme , onely in the publick assemblies of the church . the reason of this difference is , because they were bound to circumcise the males on the eighth day , but that could not stand with going to the temple which was too far off , for the purpose , to bring every child thither from all parts of judaea to be circumcised the eighth day . nor had they alway opportunity of a solemne convention in the synagogue on every eighth day ; when some child or other might be to be circumcised . but there is no precise day set downe for baptisme , nor are opportunities of publick assemblies so remote where churches are kept in a congregationall frame , but that every first day of the week baptisme may be administred if it be required . again , for the aforesaid reason , circumcision required not a peculiar minister ( for ought we finde in scripture ) but it is not so in baptisme , as was shewd in the second consideration . but no good reason can be given , why , in this they should not both agree viz. that they are both to be dispensed onely to members of the visible church , as it hath been proved in the first consideration . reply . this whole reason as it is propounded makes onely against it selfe ; who ever thought that the seals of the covenant were not proper to confederates or the church of god ? but of old all visible believers under the covenant of grace , walking in holinesse , were of the visible church , and in church order according to the dispensation of those times , though not joyned in externall society with the family of abraham . and to exclude melchisedeck or iob , because they were no members of the visible church , when yet they were visible believers under the covenant of grace , and in church order as those times required , is well-nigh a contradiction , and so it is to debar known and approved christians members of our congregation , and their seed from the seals , because they be not of the visible church , for they are members of the church , and so to bee held and esteemed all true churches and members of the church , the true & proper meaning of this consideration , is that as circumcision and the passeover were not to be dispensed to all visible believers under the covenant of grace , but onely to such as were joyned to abrahams family , or to the people of the god of abraham , no more may baptisme and the lords supper be administred to any believers now , unlesse they be joyned to some particular congregation in church membership , or unlesse by solemne covenant , they be set members of some particular assemblies . the strength of this consideration stands in the parity which is betwixt the sacraments of the old and new testament , circumcision and baptisme , for parum par est ratio , but this parity is not found in every thing ( as is manifest by the particulars alleadged in the consideration it self . ) and wee must justly require some reason to prove them like in that particular , but to unfold it more fully , we will consider three things . first , how far an argument may be drawn soundly from one sacrament to another , or wherein the sacraments agree , and wherein they differ . secondly , what wee are to think of the proposition it self . thirdly , whether the reason of circumcision and baptisme be one in that particular . first the sacraments of the old testament and the new agree in their common author , nature and end , and therfore what is spoken of one in respect of the common author , nature and end that doth hold true of everie one . if circumcision be of divine institution a seale of the righteousnesse of faith , and of the covenant of grace , a sacrament in generall is an ordinance divine , a seale of the covenant proper and peculiar to them that bee confederates . but what is peculiar to one sacrament that agreeth not to another . what is proper to the sacraments of the old testament , in respect of the manner of dispensation that agreeth not to the new , as if the sacraments of the old testament be with bloud , obscure in signification , painfull for use , peculiar to one nation , and to bee abolished , the sacraments of the new testament must be without bloud , cleere for signification , easie for use , universall to all nations , and perpetuall to continue in the church for ever . circumcision and baptisme are both sacraments of divine institution , and so they agree in the substance of the things signified , the persons to whom they are to bee administred , and the order of administration , if the right proportion bee observed . as circumcision sealed the entrance into the covenant the righteousnesse of faith , and circumcision of the heart : so doth baptisme much more clearly : as abraham and his houshold , and the infants of beleiving iews were to be circumcised , so the faithful , their families , and their seed are to bee baptized . none must eate the passeover who was not circumcised , women excepted , who were circumcised in the males . nor may a man unbaptized be admitted to the lords supper . circumcision was but once applied by gods appointment and the same holds in baptisme according to the will and good pleasure of god : but circumcision and baptisme agree not in their speciall forme , and manner of dispensation appointed of god. and in these things a reason cannot be drawn from the one to the other affirmatively . the males onely were to be circumcised as only capable of that signe : but males and semales both ought to be baptized . the infants males were to be circumcised the eighth day because seaven dayes they were legally uncleane . but the seed of the faithfull are not to bee reputed uncleane . ergo , no set tyme is appointed for baptisme . circumcision as other ceremonies did distinguish the iewes from the gentiles ; but christ now of two hath made one . circumcision signified christ to come , baptisme is the seale of the new covenant made in christ already come . and so in the degree of grace given , some difference may be put : the other differences alleadged in the considerations with the reasons thereof are not so cleere and undoubted : for baptisme is not tyed to the first day of the weeke : and the jewes might gather an assembly on the eighth day as occasion required and it might be appropriated to the priests and levites though done in private : but in whatsoever they agree or differ we must looke to the institution and neither stretch it wider , nor draw it narrower then the lord hath made it . for hee is the institutor of the sacraments according to his owne good pleasure . and it is our part to learne of him , both to whom , how , and for what end the sacraments are to be administred , how they agree , and wherein they differ . in all which we must affirme nothing but what god hath taught us , and as he hath taught us . secondly , as for the proposition it selfe ; certaine it is , circumcision and the passeover were to be administred onely to the visible members of the church , e. to men in covenant , professing the true faith ; but that in abrahams time none were visible members of the church , which joyned not themselves in church orders to the family of abraham , wee have not learned . in the first institution of circumcision , we find that god gave it to abraham , as the seale of the covenant formerly made with him : but of any church covenant or order whereunto abrahams family should enter before circumcision we read not . melchizedeck , lot , iob , &c. were not onely visible beleevers under the covenant of grace , but visible members of the church , according to the order and dispensation of those times . wee read not ( you say ) that melchizedeck , lot or iob were circumcised , but that is no good reason to inferre negatively that they were not circumcised . we read not that iohn the baptist , or the apostles , or the 500. brethren were baptized , wee must not forthwith conclude , that they were not initiated by that seale . moreover , if they were not circumcised , it may bee the institution of that sacrament was not knowne unto them , or the authour of circumcision ( upon whose will and pleasure they must depend ) did not command it unto them , or require that they should joyne themselves in covenant with abrahams family : and in that case if they had circumcised themselves they had transgressed . but then the reason why they were not circumcised was not this , that they were not ( as you speake ) in church order : but because circumcision was appropriated to abrahams family by divine institution in some speciall and peculiar respects belonging to the manner of administration . after the church of the jewes was constituted ( when wee can no more imagine that there was a church among the gentiles , then that there are christians among the barbarians at this day ) we finde none must be admitted to the passeover that was not first circumcised , but nothing was required of a stranger to circumcision , but that he professe the true faith , and avouch the god of abraham to be his god , which of necessitie must be done before he could be reputed a visible beleever , or under the covenant of promise . thus a learned and reverend divine , circumcision was a seale of the covenant , that god made with abraham concerning christ that should come as concerning the flesh of isaac and so of iacob of whom were the 12 tribes who were the israelites , &c. rom. 9. 4. 5. so that as in abrahams time none were bound to be circumcised but those that were of his family as being borne there or bought , and so brought thither which were not of his seed : so afterwards none were bound to be circumcised which were not borne in the family of jacob and patriarchs , or joyned to them . and after their comming out of egypt none were bound to be circumcised but the children of the iewes ( then the only church of god , ) and those that desired to joyne unto them . the summe is thus much , god gave circumcision to abraham as a seale of the covenant but whether it was given to other beleevers in his time it is ( at least ) a thing uncertaine . and if they were not circumcised it was by reason of the speciall institution of god , and peculiar manner of administration of the covenant of promise which in some respect was proper , to the family of abraham , and not common to all the visible members of the church at that time in church fellowship and order . afterwards when there were none in covenant but the seed of iacob or strangers professing the faith of abraham , circumcision was not to be administred to any man who was not in covenant nor any man to bee admitted to the passeover who was not circumcised . this is the most that can be said with any probability : but hence it will not follow by iust analogie or proportion , that the seed of the faithfull must not bee admitted to baptisme , or visible believers be received to the lords supper unlesse they bee set members of some particular congregation united in church order . thirdly , presupposing therefore that melchizedeck , lot and iob , were not circumcised , we say there is not the like reason of circumcision and baptisme in this particular . for , first if circumcision was ever appropriated to the family of abraham , and might be communicated to other visible beleevers , it was in the first institution and administration ; but in the first institution and administration of baptisme , it was not observed that beleevers should be first gathered into a politicall body or christian church membership , and then baptized . iohn the baptist baptized such as came to him confessing their sins . the apostles baptized disciples , such as gladly received their doctrine , beleeved in jesus christ , and received the gifts of the holy ghost , before they were gathered into christian church order , or made fit members of a christian congregationall assembly . 2 if circumcision was by speciall institution given as a priviledge to the males of abrahams familie , melchizedecke , iob , lot , and other visible beleevers were not bound to joyne themselves as members to abrahams familie , or desire and seek to be circumcised : but they that have received the doctrine of salvation , beleeve christ , and professe the faith , are bound to seek , and desire the priviledge of the seals in an holy manner . 3. melchizedech , job , and lot were not onely visible beleevers , but visible members of the church , according to the manner of dispensing in those times : but the seals ( as you confesse ) belong to all beleevers knit together in church-covenant . 4. if circumcision be appropriated to the family of abraham , it is because the covenant sealed by circumcision is peculiar to abrahams posteritie , ( sc . ) that christ should come as concerning the flesh , of isaac . but baptisme is the seal of the covenant of grace without any peculiar or speciall tye or respect . 5. you contend , that baptisme did belong to such beleevers as were members of the then jewish church , which cannot stand , if abrahams familie did answer to a christian societie or congregationall assembly ; just reason therefore may be given why circumcision was dispensed onely to the males of abrahams familie , when baptisme is not to be limited onely to the set members of a particular societie ; and if this consideration be applied to the purpose , instead of saying , circumcision and the passeover were to be administred onely to the members of the church , you must say circumcision was to be desired of or administred unto all the true approved visible members of the church . and if there be the same reason of both , then all visible approved members of the church must not desire nor be admitted to the seals , but this conclusion you will not acknowledge . answ . 4. consideration . they that are not capable of the church censures , are not capable of the church priviledges : but they that are not within church-covenant are not capable of church censures . ergo. the proposition is evident , the assumption may be proved , 1 corinth . 5. 12. what have i to do to judge them that are without . now to be without is not onely the case of heathens and excommunicates , but of some beleevers also , who though by externall union with christ they are within the covenant of grace , yet being not joyned externally to the visible bodie of christ ( a particular church ) are in regard of visible church communion said to be without . to this purpose is this text alledged by other divines also , as dr. ames cas . of consci . l. 4. c. 24. q. 1. resp . 5. reply . first , men are capable of church censures in two respects , either in having the power of the keyes , and authoritie to dispense them according to god , or as subject to the censures of the church . in the first sense , many are capable of church priviledges that are not capable of church censures , as the seed of christian parents , children and women . you say you admit to the seales the knowne and approved , and orderly recommended members of any true church : but to fellowship in the censures , admittance of members , and choice of officers onely , the members of that particular church whereof they and we ( any of us ) stand members . in the second sense also many are capable of church priviledges who are not subject to church censures : as the children of christian parents are capable of baptisme , the known and approved members of any true church are capable of the seales in other congregations among you who are not subject to the censures of that other society . spirituall communion in publick prayer is a church priviledge , which is not denied to visible beleevers and godly persons , though not in church order , and so not in subjection in your sense to church censures . secondly , a person baptised is not baptised in that particular congregation onely , but into all churches , and every particular church where he cometh he hath all the priviledges of a baptised person in respect of his baptisme , and is so to be esteemed by them . now the priviledge of a baptised person who is able to examine himself , and walketh in the truth , is to be admitted to the lords supper . all circumcised persons had right thereby to eat the passeover in any societie , in the place which god should chuse to put his name there . exod. 12. 4. 47. deut. 16. 1 , 2. so all baptised persons have true and intire right to the lords supper in everie true church where god hath set his name . thirdly , there is not the same reason of every church priviledge , for one may have right to some , who is not to meddle with others . the members of one society may hear the word , joyne in prayer , and receive the sacraments in another , when they are not to meddle in the election and ordination of their teachers . the ministers of the gospel may preach the word , and administer the sacraments in another congregation , and hereto he needs no other calling but that god offers an opportunitie ; there is much need of his help , and he is intreated , or hath leave from them in place or office ; but he is not to admit members into the societie , or cast them out that be admitted . and if the pastor of one church shall preach or administer the sacraments in another , contrary to the liking and approbation of the society and governours , though the act be irregular , it was never esteemed a nullitie ; but if he shall presume to excommunicate the members of another societie , without the consent or the church , and approbation of pastors and teachers , under whose charge and jurisdiction they live , it hath been judged a meer nullity . therefore the proposition is not so evident as to be taken without proofe , that they have no power to admit a beleever into communion in any church priviledge who have no power to excommunicate . fourthly , that visible beleevers baptised into a true church professing the true faith , and walking in holy obedience , and godly conversation , that they and their seed should be judged such as are without in the aposles sense , because they be not externally joyned as set members to some particular congregation in church-covenant is affirmed , not proved . 1. it hath , and may fall out many times through the ignorance , rashnesse , or pride of a prevailing faction in the church , that the true members of the catholique church , and the best members of the orthodox visible flock , or congregation of christ may be no members of any distinct visible societie . and shall their posteritie be esteemed aliens and strangers from the covenant , and debarred from the sacraments , because their parents are unjustly seperated from the inheritance of the lord ? surely as parents unjustly excommunicated do continue still not onely true members of the invisible body , but visible members of the flock of christ : so the right of baptisme doth belong to the infants of such parents , though not actuall and constant members of this or that present assembly in church order . 2. if they be without , because no members of a politike bodie or spirituall fellowship : then all members which are of one societie are without to another : for they that be not of the bodie are not capable of church censures , or subject to the authoritie one of another . and so not being under the judgement of that particular church to it they are without ; whereas in ancient and moderne times distinct societies did communicate together , admit and receive each other as brethren , to testifie their fellowship in the faith . if the reason whereupon the apostle saith the church of corinth was not to judge them that were without , was because they were not within the church of corinth , and so not under their censure or judgement : this holds true of them that be of another society admitted to the sacrament , as well as of such as be no set members desiring to be received to the lords supper . 3. ( the fornicators of this world ) do they not explaine whom the apostle pointeth unto by the title of being without , ver . 10. 11. such as had not received the covenant of grace . 4. church order is necessarie we denie not ; but this order that a man should be a constant and set member of a particular societie by covenant , to make him a true member of the visible church , or to give him title or interest to the publick order , this is not taught of god. 5. paul divides all men into two ranks , the first and greater without ; the last and lesser within : but that beleevers who have received the holy ghost , and have been baptised into jesus christ , that they and their children should be reckoned among them that are without , that we read not in this nor any other scripture , but in phrase of scripture hereticks themselves are within the church . 6. the beleevers not yet gathered ( as the godly learned think ) into a certain distinct body are called beleevers , brethren , disciples ; but that they should be comprehended under them that are without , it hath not been beleeved in the church . 7. without ( faith the apostle whether alluding to this place or not , let others judge ) are dogs , inchanters , whoremongers , not such as are called faithfull and holy , walking in integritie , beleeving in and professing jesus christ to be their saviour . 8. they that are without in the apostles sense are aliens from the common-wealth of israel , strangers from the covenant of promise , having no hope , and without god in the world : but we hope you will not passe such rash and unadvised censure upon your brethren , who be not gathered into your societie as set members . 9. let the interpretation stand , and he is without , not onely who is no set member of some congregationall assembly , but he that is not subject to the censure of the community of that particular combination few or many , with , or without officers . and so all the reformed churches in the world who ascribe the power of the keyes to the presbitry or classes , and not to the community , and some amongst your selves ( if not the most ) shall be without also . and therefore we cannot think approved christians desiring to be received unto the sacrament , either to be without , or uncapable of church censures for the time being if they should offend , though not set members of any particular congregation : for desiring baptisme for their children or themselves to be admitted to the lords supper for the time they put themselves under the ordinance of jesus christ there . and as they are members for the time , so they might be proceeded against according to the rule prescribed by our saviour , as they would proceed with an offending member . 10. if upon just and good reason a passage of scripture can be cleared to prove that for which it was never alledged by any writer , we are not to except against any truth of god , because it wanteth mans testimonie . onely if we desire credit in such cases , our reasons must be weightie and convincing . but for your exposition of this text of scripture , as yet we have not observed one substantiall ground , or approved author to be alledged . doctor ames shewing the necessitie of christians joyning themselves to some particular church , giveth this reason , quoniam alias fieri non potest quum conturbentur signa illa quibus fideles ab infidelibus discerni possunt . 1. cor. 5. 12. but herein dr. ames manifestly sheweth that by them that are [ without ] heathens , and unbeleevers must be understood , and not beleevers and godly men though of no particular setled societie for the time , for thus we conceive he argueth . the signes and evidences whereby the faithfull are to be discerned from unbeleevers , must not be confounded : but unlesse christians make themselves actuall members of a societie or church , the signes whereby the faithfull are discerned from unbeleevers , will be obscured and darkned . and if this be his reason how can that text of scripture be alledged for confirmation , unlesse by [ men without ] infidels be understood . again doctor ames in the same book , lib. 4. ca. 27. speaking of infants to be received , it is required ( he saith ) that they be in the covenant of grace in respect of outward profession , and estimation in respect of their parents , and that there is hope they shall be instructed and brought up in the same covenant . 2. that baptisme doth most properly belong to those infants whose parents , at least one of them is in the church , and not without , because baptisme is a signe and seale of the covenant of grace . 3. that children that are cast forth are in charitie to be esteemed the children of christian parents , when there is no just cause of presuming the contrary , that in admitting unto baptisme a difference must be put betweene the infants of those who in some sort belong to the church , but openly break the covenant of god , and the children of others . 1. because a distinction must be observed in holy things betweene the cleane and uncleane ; seeing else the ordinance of god cannot be preserved from all pollution . to say nothing of that which he addeth touching the baptisme of infants borne in fornication , excommunication , and papists , which is more then sufficient to cleare his meaning in the former passage . to this may be added that he holdeth it not necessarie that christians should gather themselves into a particular society , but as opportunitie and occasion should offer it self . so that it was never his mind to censure them who be not gathered into church-covenant , because they want means or opportunitie as men without in the apostles sense . his judgement is further manifested in his second manuduction , pa. 33. so many parish assemblies of england ( saith he ) as have any competent number of good christians in them , united to worship god ordinarily in one societie , so many have the essence and integrall forme of a visible church , and all they have intire right to christ , and to all the meanes of injoying him , how ever they are defective in the puritie of their combination , and in the compleat free exercising of their power , whereupon a reverend * elder now among you draws this conclusion , ergo to dischurch them wholly , and to separate from them as no churches of christ , or to denie baptisme to the infants of their known members is not warrantable by any rule of scripture that i know , nor justified by any assertion or practise . answ . 5. consideration . vve may adde hereunto for a fifth consideration , the evill and pernicious consequences of extending communion in church priviledges beyond the bounds of church fellowship : for thus , 1. the extraordinarie office of the apostles , and the ordinarie office of pastors and teachers will be much confounded , if the latter be as illimited as the former in the execution of their office beyond the bounds of their own particular churches . 2. the distinction of church assemblies from the confused multitude is abroagated , if without membership in a particular church the parents may communicate with the churches in the lords supper , and their seed in baptisme . 3. the church shall indanger the profaning of the seals , and want one speciall meanes whereby the grace and pietie of men may be discerned and made known ; for if without respect to their church estate men of approved pietie ( as you say ) are to be admitted to fellowship in the seales , how shall their pietie be approved to the church not by their own report of themselves alone without attestation of such as are approved by the church ; and how can such beare witnesse to their approved pietie , who against light refuse to professe subjection to the gospel of christ by orderly joyning themselves in fellowship with some approved church of christ as members thereof when they have opportunitie thereunto , seeing such fellowship is an action of pietie required of all beleevers in the second commandment ; and true pietie frameth mens spirits to have respect to all gods commandments . and we have had much experience of it , that men of approved pietie in the judgement of some have been found too light , not onely in the judgement of others , but even of their own consciences , when they have come to triall in offering themselves to be members of churches , with such a blessing hath god followed this order of taking hold of church-covenant by publick profession of faith and repentance before men be admitted to the seales ; but this meanes of discoverie of mens pietie and sinceritie would be utterly lost , if men should be admitted unto the lords table without entring in church-fellowship . reply . if it be repugnant to divine institution to admit of approved christians lawfully baptized , walking in the faith , members of the visible churches , and partakers of church priviledges among us to the lords supper , or their children to baptisme , because they be not entred into church fellowship according to your order , then it is unlawfull though no such evill consequences are to be feared . but if by accident some abuse should fall out , the evill is to be prevented by all lawfull meanes : but the faithfull are not utterly to be debarred of the order of god , whereto they have right and title by his free grant and gracious invitation . and no question but the seales of the covenant may be profaned many times when it is not in the power of the dispensers to put back or expell such as profane them . if the congregation shall admit of , or tolerate an unworthy member , the churches priviledges are profaned ; and yet we conceive you will say the pastor is not faulty in receiving him , when the church doth tolerate unworthily , if he do what pertaineth to his office to keep the holy things of god from contempt . but in the case propounded there is no feare or danger of such consequences necessarie to follow : for the question is not of all sorts at randame , but of christians professing the faith intirely , lawfully baptised , known , and approved to the consciences of the wise and judicious visible members of the churches of christ among us often admitted to the lords table , whether these either sufficiently knowne unto you , or orderly recommended may upon desire and suite themselves be admitted to communicate in the lords supper , and their children to be baptized , what feare is there now that the extraordinarie office of the apostles , and the ordinarie office of pastors and teachers shall be much or little confounded ? is this to take as illimited power as the apostles did in the execution of their office ? how shal this tend to abrogate the distinction of church assemblies from the confused multitude ? or how is the profanation of the seals thereby indangered ? you aske if without respect to their church estate men of approved pietie ( as we say ) are to be admitted into fellowship in the seals , how shall their pietie be approved to the church , not by their own report of themselves alone , &c. do not you say the same , that there be many godly persons , and of approved pietie among us , who are not approved by their own report of themselves ( unlesse ye will take their wisedome , faith , patience , courage , constancie , and holinesse of life for their report ) approved , we say by as ample and sufficient testimonie as the apostles exacted of them whom they received into church fellowship , or can be required of members admitted unto the priviledges of the church , if men will follow the lords direction , or as you can give to ordinances members of your societies . you professe high respect of your brethren in old england , but it seemes you judge them insufficient to give orderly testimonie of the sinceritie and uprightnesse of approved christians , well known unto them , and living among them , which two cannot well agree . we speake not of such who against light refuse to professe subjection to the gospel of christ to joyne themselves orderly in fellowship with some approved church : but of such as do with all readinesse professe subjection , and walk accordingly , and heartily desire to joyn themselves to the most pure and compleat churches so farre as they are taught of god , or have opportunitie thereunto . and if exception be taken against them onely , who refuse against light to submit themselves to the gospel ; by what rule do you proceed when you judge men to refuse against light , or debarre them who do not refuse against conscience , but for lacke of opportunitie . no doubt ( as you say ) but now and then a man of approved pietie in the judgement of some may be found too light , yea and in the judgement of his owne conscience when he hath come to triall . and no question but many have been admitted by the church , who indeed and truth are much too light ; and some refused who deserved better then they that cast them off , we will not dispute what errours have been committed , nor what blessing ye have found upon your proceedings ; we heartily beseech the lord to keep your congregation pure , make his ordinances more and more effectuall , go before you in the way wherein you should walk , and multiply his mercies upon you in the same . but this we are perswaded , and therefore we speak , that in debarring godly christians from the lords supper , and much more the children of those parents who are in covenant with god , from holy baptisme you exceed your commission you have received from god , and go beyond your due bounds . and notwithstanding your circumspection more worthy and faithfull christians have been denied when of lesse worth , and meaner sufficiencies have passed , and been by you received . answ . 6. consid . none have power to dispence the seales but they that are called to the office of ministery ; and no man can be so called till first there be a church to call him , seeing the power of calling ministers is given by christ unto the church ; and thence it follows , that all those that desire to partake of the seales , are bound to joyne themselves in church state , that so they may call a minister to dispense the seales unto them . and this dutie by the appointment of god lieth not onely upon some christians , but equally upon all : ergo no christian can expect by the appointment of god to partake in the seals till he have joyned himselfe in church fellowship , and in the call of the minister . and indeed seeing a church , and a minister called by the church , is of such necessitie for the dispensing of the seales , it may seeme unreasonable that some christians should be bound to become a church , and to call a minister that so the seales may be dispensed , and other men ( when this is done ) have equall libertie to the seals who refuse to joyne unto the church . reply . this conclusion is not to the question propounded , for we speake of such as cannot , not of such as refuse to joyne themselves unto the church ; or if they do not joyne , it is not out of contempt or wilfull neglect of gods ordinance , or desire of carnall libertie , and not to be in subjection to christ , but for lacke of opportunitie , or through their fault that should admit them but do not . for if in any of your churches you shall require more of members to be admitted then christ the chiefe shepherd of the flock doth , or presse that upon their consciences which they cannot consent unto , if they shall fit downe quietly for the time and serve god in private , when they cannot injoy church priviledges , it is your fault and not theirs . and they may more justly challenge the assemblie as injurious and tyrannicall , then you them as wilfull despisers of gods ordinance . we accuse not the wisedome and discretion of your chuches , but we know the zealous multitude may sometimes be rash ; and when a reason is craved of your judgement , why you do debarre the most knowne and approved christians which come over , and their children from the seals of the covenant , we dislike you should put this note upon them , as if against light they refused orderly to subject themselves to the gospel of jesus christ : what warrant you have thus to censure , what use of this manner of dispute we leave it to your godly wisedome to judge . in the consideration it self there are many propositions couched together , which we must examine severally as they have reference to the conclusion intended , and then try whether it can be raised from them . the first proposition , that none have power to dispence the seales , but they that are called to the office of ministery , is freely granted . the second , that no man can be so called till first there be a church to call him , needeth explication . for by the church you must understand the community of the faithfull , as they are one bodie , without officers or guides . and such a church there cannot be without a ministery to call and admit them into church-fellowship . the apostles baptised not themselves , but by the help of others , & those not called of the people to be baptised , 1 cor. 1. 17. the apostles appointed by electiō , elders in every city or church . and so there was a church before elders were set over it , but this church was a societie of beleevers by baptisme admitted into church-fellowship . there can be no church to call a minister to feed the flock , and dispence the seals , till they have received the doctrine of salvation intirely , and by the seale of initiation be solemnly received into the societie of men professing christ . a company of men converted to the faith being unbaptized , may and ought to desire baptisme , but they have not power to elect and chuse one among themselves to dispence the seales unto the rest for ought is to be found in scripture : the churches constitution into which christians are to gather themselves must be apostolicall , and not one day or houre younger in nature and forme of it , thus the first church of the new testament . but it can never be shewed in scripture that any societie of unbaptised persons did first chuse from among them a pastor or teacher by whom they might be baptised : you cannot produce one example or other proofe in the scripture , of one man teaching the gospel ministerially but he was baptised , and a member of a true church , or of a societie who made choice of a pastor and teacher , but they were baptised persons . the third proposition , that the power of calling ministers is given by christ unto the church , must also be rightly understood : for by the church must be meant the societie of the faithfull , not onely ingrafted into christ , set into the state of salvation , and made heires apparent of everlasting blessednesse , but solemnly entred and inrolled into the societie of christs flock , and acknowledged members by free admission into the seales of the covenant . againe , by the church if we speake of ordinary calling , must not be understood of the faithfull alone , but their guides and officers together with them , who are to goe before the rest , and to direct and governe them in their choice . neither can we say , that any two or three beleevers linked together in societie doe make such a church , as to whom the calling of the minister doth belong : but that right was given by christ to such churches as were gathered and established by the apostles . the church hath a ministery of calling one whom christ hath described , that from christ he may have power of office given him in the vacant place . but the office , gift , and power of the ministery , is immediately from christ and not from the church . the church doth neither virtually nor formally give power to her officers but ministerially onely , as ministring to him who hath power and vertue to conferre it . and this right of election is so given to the communitie and body of the people , that if they have consented to give away their right , or if it be taken injuriously from them , the calling of the minister notwithstanding may be true , and ministeriall acts done by him that is thrust upon the people without their consent may be effectuall to their salvation . a wrong it is altogether to debarre the godly of their consent in the calling of such as must watch for their soules ; but it makes not the calling it selfe a meere nullitie ; for then many churches in the world within a few hundred yeares after christ should have wanted both ministery and sacraments , and they would have been altogether destitute of both ministery and sacraments for many hundred yeares . the fourth , that all those who desire to partake in the seales , are bound to joyne themselves together in church-state , that so they may call a minister to dispence the seales unto them , will not follow from the former rightly understood . we deny not but christians are bound to joyne themselves together in holy fellowship , if god give them opportunitie : but they must partake in the seales before they can joyne themselves together in church-state . and such as for lack of meanes and opportunitie cannot joyne themselves into such an estate , or be dispersed by persecution , or be destitute of pastors and teachers , may for a time desire and seek to have the seales dispenced unto them by the pastors and teachers of other societies , with whom they hold communion in the faith . the people also who are deprived of right and libertie to choose their pastor , may desire and seek to have the seales dispenced unto them by him who is set over them . if a company of infidells should be converted to the faith , they must desire to partake in the ordinances of grace before they could joyne together in a church-way to call a minister of their own , who might administer the sacraments unto them . to make disciples and baptize are joyned together . and if these propositions be allowed for current , a nation or people plunged into idolatry or infidelitie , or otherwise dischurched , cannot by ordinary meanes recover into a church-estate , wherein they may lawfully and according to gods appointment desire or expect that the seales of the covenant should be dispenced to them . the fifth proposition riseth beyond measure , that no christian can expect by the appointment of god to partake in the seales till he have joyned himselfe in church-fellowship and the calling of the minister . wee conceive you will not say that children and women have to doe in the call of the minister ( for women they are debarred by their sex as from ordinary prophesying , so from any other dealing wherein they take authority over the man ) if some part of the congregation doe not consent in the election of pastors or teachers , have they not right to expect to have the seales of the covenant dispenced to themselves or their seede ? if the people be deprived of that libertie to choose or call their minister , must they seperate from the ordinances of worship there dispenced , and from the congregations as no true churches ? if some persons by the providence of god live in such places where they cannot joyne in church-fellowship and call of the minister ( as suppose the christian wife , childe , or servant ) nor lawfully remove to any such societie , must they and their children live as strangers and aliens from the covenant of grace , wherein they may not expect to partake of the seales ▪ in infidels be converted to the faith , must they not partake in the seales , because they cannot joyne in church-fellowship and call of the minister , before they be admitted to baptisme ? here you say the people must joyne together in the call of the minister , before they can lawfully desire to be admitted to the seales . and another hath zealously affirmed ( it is a presumptuous sin in any to choose an officer not trained up and tryed ( scil . ) in the debating , discussing , carrying , and contriving of church-affaires , as also in admonition , exhortation , and comfort , publickly occasioned and so manifested ) lay these two together , and let it be considered how long many a poore soule converted to the faith must be compelled to want the comfort of gods ordinances . besides , if a people be joyned together in church-fellowship , and have called a pastor to feed and watch over them , wee desire ( not words but ) proofe why the poore dispersed christians wanting means or opportunitie to joyn themselves together into societie , ought not to desire , and that others be not bound in conscience to afford them the comfort of gods ordinances . if the propositions may stand for good , i feare we shall scarce finde that ever in ordinary way , the sacraments were lawfully dispenced or received in the christian churches of god since the first foundation of them . now the premises being liable to so many exceptions , the conclusion to be laid upon them , will fall of it selfe . and thereunto wee oppose the direct contrary . that infidels converted to the faith , or godly christians , formerly visible beleevers , knowne and approved members of congregations professing the intire faith , and joyning together in the lawfull use of the sacraments for substance according to the institution , may and ought to desire and expect the seales of the covenant to be dispenced to them , and to their seede , though for the present they be not joyned into such church-state and call of ministers as you require . answer 7. consideration . that our practise may not be censured as novell and singular , give us leave to produce a president of the like care observed and approved by publick countenance of state in the dayes of edward 6. of blessed and famous memory , who in the yeare 1550. granted johannes alasco a learned noble man of poland under the great seale of england , libertie to gather a church of strangers in london , and to order themselves according as they should finde to be most agreeable to the scriptures . among other godly orders established in that church , that which concerned the administration of baptisme to prevent the prophanation of it we will repeate in alascoes owne words . baptisme in our church ( saith he ) is administred in the publique assembly of the church after the publique sermon : for seeing baptisme doth so belong to the whole church that none ought to be driven thence , which is a member of the church , nor to be admitted to it who is not a member of it , truely it is equall that that should be performed publiquely in the assembly of the whole church , which belongs to the whole church in common . againe , he addeth ; now seeing our churches are by gods blessing so established by the kings majestie , that they may be as it were one parish of strangers dispersed throughout the whole citie , or one body corporate ( as it is called in the kings grant ) and yet all strangers doe not joyne themselves to our church , yea there are those who while they avoyde all churches , will pretend to the english churches that they are joyned with us , and to us that they are joyned to the english churches , and so doe abuse both them and us , lest the english churches and the ministers thereof should be deceived by the impostures of such men ( and that under colour of our churches ) wee doe baptize their infants alone who have adjoyned themselves to our churches by publique confession of their faith , and observation of ecclesiasticall discipline . and that our churches may be certaine that the infants that are to be baptized are their seede , who have joyned themselves thereto in manner aforesaid , the father of the infant to be baptized ( if possible he can ) or other men and women of notable credit in the church , doe offer the infant to baptisme , and doe publickly professe that it is the seede of the church , yet wee suffer no stranger to offer infants to baptisme in our churches , who hath not made publique profession of his faith , and willingly submitted himselfe to the discipline of the church , lest otherwise they who present their children to baptisme , might in time plead that they belong to our churches , and so should deceive the english churches and their ministers . to those which presented infants to baptisme , they propounded three questions , the first was ; are these infants which yee offer the seed of this church , that they may lawfully be here baptized by our ministery ? &c. answer , yea. this instance is the more to be regarded , because alasco affirmeth in the preface of that book , that this libertie was by the king granted to them out of his desire to settle alike reformation in the english churches , which in effect you see the same with out practise in this particular . reply . the practise of the church of strangers in london , recorded by john alasco , is farre different from your judgement and practise , not in some by-circumstances , but in the maine point in question ; for your judgement is that true visible beleevers , baptized and partakers of the lords supper in other churches not yet gathered into church-estate or fellowship , have no right or interest in the seales , ( they nor their seede . ) but this church of strangers held no such opinion as their own words ( which you have omitted ) doe plainly speake . and paul testifyeth ( say they ) that by christs ordinance the church it selfe without exception of any member of it , is to be accounted cleane or holy by the ministery of baptisme . whence we may easily see , that baptisme doth neither belong to those who are altogether without the church , nor to be denyed to any member of the church . secondly , they held communion with the church of england as one and the same with theirs . for so they professe : yet neverthelesse , that we may openly shew that the english churches and ours are one and the same church ( though we differ somewhat from them both in language and ceremonies ) we doe not refuse that the english may as publick witnesses of the church offer the infants of our members to baptisme in our churches , if they have both the use of our language and a certain testimony of their piety . as in like manner our members are accustomed to offer the infants of the english to baptisme in the english churches . if your judgement be this of the english churches , your judgement in acknowledging us members of true churches , and practise in debarring visible beleevers and their seede from the seales , are opposite the one to the other . thirdly , this order was observed by them to prevent the impostures of some , who whilst they avoyded all churches , pretended to the english , that they were joyned to the strangers , and to the strangers that they were joyned to the english . but you debarre knowne christians who desire to joyne themselves with you , not to prevent impostures of them who avoyde all churches : yea , you debarre them as men having no right to the sacraments , because they be not in church-fellowship : and herein you can shew no president ancient or moderne , either from scripture or monuments of the church : and as your practise is without example , so without warrant from the word of god. and this is the maine reason why we cannot consent unto you in this particular which we thus propound . 1 reason . that sacred order which god hath set in his visible church for all his saints to keep and walk by , that is religiously to be observed . but for men to set up that as a necessarie order which god never allowed , approved , or commanded , is great presumption . now the lord hath not ordained that a man should be a set member of a particular societie , or body politique of faithfull people joyned together in spirituall church-fellowship by covenant , before he be admitted unto the lords supper , or that the parents should be actuall visible set members of some particular distinct body before their children be baptised . they that beleeve in jesus christ have received the word of promise and walk therein , they and their children are within the covenant , and have right and title to the seales of the covenant , but in their order , the infants to baptisme , parents baptised , to the lords supper . and if in that state by divine grant they have interest to the sacraments , the church in debarring them because they be not yet grown into one distinct separate societie of mutuall covenant , doth exceed the bounds of her commission . for a ministeriall power onely is committed to the church to admit or refuse them who are to be admitted or refused by authoritie from god : but the church if she thrust beleeving parents from the supper of the lord , and their seed from baptisme ; she denieth these benefits to them who by the grace and gift of god have lawfull right and title thereto . 1. for first , the baptisme of john was true baptisme , and truly administred by him : and they that were baptized by him received the seales of the covenant , and were esteemed members of the visible church : but john never demanded of them who came to his baptisme whether they were entred into spirituall fellowship by mutuall covenant one with another . this was not then knowne to be a necessarie and essentiall point in the lawfull , due , and orderly administration of the sacrament . the disciples of our saviour made and baptised disciples professing the faith , but not combined into church-state or fellowship . the apostles commission was first to teach the gentiles , and then to baptise them having received their doctrine . and this they carefully observed in the execution of their ministery upon grounds and reasons common to them and us : for as soone as any man or number of men gladly received the doctrine of salvation , and gave their names to jesus christ , if they desired to be baptised forthwith they accepted them , never excepting , that they were no set members of a distinct visible congregation . when the first 3000. converts , being pricked in their consciences , came to peter , and the rest of the apostles , saying , men and brethren , what shall we do ? peter returns this answer , repent and be baptised every one of you in the name of jesus , &c. for to you is the promise made , and to your children , and to all that are afar off , &c. as soon as the samaritanes beleeved , philip who preached the things that concerned the kingdom of god , they were baptised both men and women . when the eunuch asked of philip , see here is water , what doth let me to be baptised ? he answereth not if thou beest first received as a set member into a visible congregation thou mayest : but if thou beleevest with all thy heart , thou mayest . can any man forbid water ( saith peter , speaking of the gentiles upon whom was powred the gift of the holy ghost ) that these should not be baptised who have received the gift of the holy ghost as well as we ? at that time it was not held a bar sufficient to keep them from the sacrament of baptisme , because they were not set members of a distinct societie , which had it been essentiall to the lawfull and orderly administration of the sacraments , questionlesse it had been observed in the first institution and administration of them . annanias baptised paul before he was any set member of a congregationall assembly . lydia and her houshold , the jaylor and his house were baptised without regard to their church-estate . for in the same night which he was converted , he was baptized with all his houshold . and this was done not by the apostles onely upon speciall dispensation , but by others upon grounds and reasons common to them , and all ages , viz. because they were disciples , beleeved , gladly received the word , had received the holy ghost , were called , and the promise was made to them , and to their seed , even to all them that were afarre off . now if the apostles dispensed the seales to them that were not in church-fellowship upon common grounds , it is not essentiall to the lawfull dispensation of the seales , that all partakers should be under such a covenant . if the baptised disciples , beleevers , such as gladly received the word , and had received the gift of the holy ghost , then the seals of the covenant belong unto such , and by the grace of god they have right and title unto those priviledges . 2. as we received the sacraments from god by divine institution ; so must we learne from him , how and to whom the same are to be administred , observing what he hath commanded without addition or diminution . but we have learned from christ the author of baptisme , and the constant practise of the apostles ( the first dispensers of these holy seales who best understood the mind and pleasure of the lord herein ) that such as be called of god to whom the promise is made , who have received the gifts of the holy ghost , beleeved in the lord jesus , professed their faith in him , and repentance for sins past with purpose of amendment for the time to come , that such have right unto , and desiring it ought to be received unto baptisme , and are greatly wronged if they be deprived of that unspeakable benefit . 3. by a lively faith a man is made a living member of jesus christ , and hath internall communion with him by the intire profession of christian faith joyned with conformity of life in righteousnesse , and holinesse , and fellowship of love , he is a member of the visible congregation or flock of christ , though no set member of a free distinct independant societie . and baptisme is the seale of our admission into the congregation or flock of christ ; but not evermore of our receiving into this or that particular societie as set members thereof . this latter is accidentall to baptisme , not essentiall . it may fall out to be so , but it is not ever necessarie ; nor is the sacrament to be denyed , nor can we say it is imperfectly administred where it cannot be attained . for the catholique church is one intire bodie , made up by the collection and agregation of all the faithfull unto the unity thereof ; from which union there ariseth unto every one of them such a relation to , dependance upon that church catholique as parts use to have in respect of the whole . and this holds true , not onely of sound beleevers in respect of internall fellowship with christ their head , and so one with another ; but of all men professing the true and intire doctrine of faith and salvation in respect of them that hold and professe the same faith of christ , and worship god according to his will ; whereupon it followeth that neither particular persons , nor particular guides , nor particular churches are to worke as severall divided bodies by themselves , but are to teach , and be taught ; and to do all other duties as parts conjoyned to the whole , and members of the same flock or societie in generall : and so beleevers professing the faith , and walking in holinesse , may and ought to be admitted to the seales as actuall members of the church of christ , and sheep of his pasture , though not set members of one congregationall church . 4. not to insist upon this here , that it hath and may fall out many times through ignorance , rashnesse , or pride , of a prevailing faction in the church , that the true members of the catholique church , and the best members of the orthodox visible flock , or church of christ , may be no actuall members of any distinct societie , and shall they for this be accounted men out of covenant , and their posteritie be esteemed aliens and strangers : but if they be in covenant , then are they holy in respect of the covenant , and their children holy as pertaining to the covenant , and have right to the sacrament of initiation . thus mr. rob. frameth the argument . the sacrament of baptisme is to be administred by christs appointment , and the apostles example onely to such as are ( externally , and so far as men can judge ) taught and made disciples , do receive the word gladly , do beleeve , and so professe , have received the holy ghost , and to their seed . and thus the church of god ever since the apostles dayes understood the covenant and promise , and their practise in receiving beleevers and their seed to the seales of the covenant was answerable , as might be shewed at large , if it was not a thing confessed . hereunto you answer . answer . vvhere the holy ghost is given and received ( which was the case of the centurion ) and where faith is professed according to gods ordinance ( which was the case of the rest ) there none may hinder them from being baptised , viz. by such as have power to baptise them . in the instances given baptisme was administred either by apostles or evangelists , not ordinary pastors : the persons baptised , if they were members of churches , had a right to baptisme in their state , and the apostles being officers of all churches might dispense the seales to them where ever they came , which yet will not warrant ordinary officers to do the same . nor is it improbable but that all these were in church-order , aret. on act. 18. 1. is of opinion , that the centurion had a constituted church in his house ; the eunuches coming to jerusalem to worship , argueth him to be a proselyte , and member of the jewish church not yet dissolved : and therefore upon the profession of the christian faith capable of church priviledges at that time . as for lydia and the gaylor it appeareth that in the beginning of the gospel there was a church at philippi which communicated with paul as concerning giving and receiving : as he expresly saith , before his departure was from macedonia , which departure was immediately upon the gaylors conversion . in which respect what should hinder that lydia and the gaylor should first be joyned to the church , and then to be baptised though it be not mentioned in that story ? as neither there is mention of a christian church , which paul mentioneth in his epistle to the philippians . at least it is probable that lydia was a member of the jewish church , because she is said to be one that worshipped god. but if any man think they were not members of any church yet baptised , though we see not how it will be proved , yet if it were so , the object doth no whit weaken the argument , which speaketh of the ordinary dispensation of the seales , and not of what was done in an extraordinary way . so that suppose that in the cases alledged , baptisme dispensed to some that were not in church-fellowship , yet the examples of the apostles and evangelists in so doing will not warrant ordinary pastors to do the like . the reason of the difference why apostles and evangelists might administer baptisme out of church-order , whereas pastors and teachers may not , is double . 1. because their calling gave them illimited power over all men , especially christians wheresoever they came . but we do not find that ordinarie pastors and teachers can do an act of power , but onely over their own church , which hath called them to watch over them in the lord. 2. because they were assisted with an immediate direction and guidance of the holy ghost , in the places of their administration in the cases alledged . but ordinary church-officers are to walke according to ordinary rules of the scripture in the dispensation of the seales , and not to expect immediate inspirations and extraordinary revelations for their helpe in such cases . this difference between apostles and ordinary church-officers must needs be acknowledged , or otherwise a man might from their example justifie baptisme in private houses . reply . this answer stands of many parts , wherein things doubtfull are affirmed , and that which more weakeneth the force of the consideration before alledged , and the answer it selfe , then of the reason whereunto it is applyed . for first , if where the holy ghost is given and received , and where faith is professed according to gods ordinance , there none may hinder them from being baptized , viz. by such as have power to baptize them : then either men that have received the holy ghost , and professe the faith , be members of the church , or baptisme is not a priviledge of the church , then it is not essentiall to the first institution of baptisme , that it should be dispenced to none but such as were entered into church-fellowship , or were set members of a congregationall assembly . then the apostles in dispensing the seales unto such , or commanding them to be dispenced , did walk according to the rules of scripture , and upon grounds common to them and us , viz. they admitted them unto the sacraments who had right and interest to them , according to the minde and pleasure of the institutor , not extraordinarily revealed , besides the common rules , or by speciall dispensation and prerogative excepted from the common rule , but made knowne in the institution it selfe . and then the difficultie remaining is onely this , whether a pastor or teacher hath authority from christ to dispence the seales of the covenant to one who hath right and title to them , and doth orderly desire that benefit because he is not as yet received as a set member of that particular societie which your practise in admitting of set members of other congregations unto the seales doth manifestly convince . for if both have equall interest unto the seales , the pastor upon lawfull suite and request hath equall authoritie to receive the one as well as the other . secondly , in the particular instances given , it is not probable that baptisme was evermore administred by apostles or evangelists ; for before the death of christ , the disciples baptized when they were properly neither apostles nor evangelists : after the death of christ ( not to insist upon conjectures whether any assisted the apostles in the baptizing of the first three thousand converted ) it is not certaine , whether peter baptized cornelius and his family , or commanded others then present with him to baptize them : the words may be read : et jussit eos baptizari in nomine domini . syr. & arab. praecepit eis ut baptizarentur . the interlineary glosse leaveth it doubtfull , associis suis vel a seipso . others are of opinion that peter did baptize them himselfe . it cannot be proved that philip and ananias were both evangelists , when the one baptized the samaritans and the eunuch , the other paul. paul himselfe baptized but a few as he testifieth of himselfe , and reason to convince that others converted by his preaching were baptized by evangelists , we know not any . and if philip , ananias , and others might baptize such as had right and title to the seales , being as yet no set members of any particular congregation : and a congregation destitute of their proper pastor , may desire another to baptize their infants , and dispence the sacrament of the supper to them in that their necessitie . and if the members of one congregation may lawfully communicate in another , then may the pastors of particular congregations upon occasion admit to the seales of the covenant such known and approved christians , as have right and title thereunto , and duely and orderly require the same ; for of all these the reason is like and perpetuall . thirdly , it is very improbable that the persons baptized , were in church-state or order . if they were members of the jewish church not yet dissolved , this is not to the purpose ; for men have not right to baptisme , because they were members of the jewish church , but because disciples and ( as you say ) joyned together in covenant , and have fellowship and calling of their minister , who is to dispence the seales unto them . and baptisme is the sacrament of initiation , not into the jewish but the christian churches . secondly , when you say , the seales in ordinary dispensation are the priviledges of the churches . there are no ministers but of particular churches . baptisme and the lords supper are to be administred onely to the members of the church . no societie may lawfully desire the seales , unlesse they have joyned in the choice and calling of their minister . beleevers not yet joyned in church-order are without . doe yee not in all these understand a christian societie , united in a church-way , &c. which cannot agree to the members of the jewish church , not yet dissolved . thirdly , the constitution of the church ( saith mr. robin . ) is the orderly collection and conjunction of the saints into and in the covenant of the new testament ; but the members of jewish churches not yet dissolved , were not in such constitution . if the eunuch and centurion were proselytes and members of the church of the jewes ; the samaritanes whom philip baptized were not so . and that any gentiles , or the gailor whom paul baptized in the apostles times , were set members of a christian assembly before baptized , is very strange . if there was a church at philippi , yet the gailor who was baptized and converted the same night , could not be a set member by solemne admission before baptisme . it is said the apostles baptized these persons in an extraordinary way . but in this practise of the apostles two things are to be considered . 1. the circumstance of the action . 2. the qualitie or substance of the act . in some circumstances the baptizing of some of these persons might be extraordinary , but the substance and qualitie of the action was grounded upon rules perpetuall and common to us with them . 1. that is done in an extraordinary way , which by peculiar priviledge of dispensation is made lawfull to some one or few men , which is unlawfull to all others , not having the same dispensation , but where the ground and reason of the action is common : we must not conceive the thing to be done in an extraordinary way by speciall dispensation . what was done by the apostles upon speciall revelation and immediate direction , besides the ordinary and common rule , in that wee are not to immitate or follow them , because we have not their warrant . but what they did upon reasons and grounds reaching unto us no lesse then unto them , in that we have the same libertie , allowance , or commandement that they did walk by . in one and the same action there may be and oft is something ordinary , something extraordinary or peculiar to speciall times or persons . so it was in the apostles administration of the seales : but in every place where they came by illimited power ( as you speake ) they did baptize disciples , if they did baptize ; this was proper to them , and could not be communicated to any others by them ; for there is no passage of scripture which teacheth this , that one officer may communicate his power to another , or doe that which particularly belongeth to his office by a deputie : but that they baptized beleevers professing their faith in the lord jesus , and repentance towards god , such as had gladly imbraced the word , and received the gifts of the holy ghost : this was common to them with all pastors and teachers , because they did it , not by power illimited or speciall dispensation , but upon this standing perpetuall reason , that the promise was made to them and to their seede , and to as many as the lord shall call , that they had received the holy ghost , and the kingdome of heaven belonged to them . and if the grounds and reasons of their practise be common reaching to us , no lesse then unto them , the practise it selfe was not extraordinary . to say nothing that this answer will not stand with the former ; for if the parties baptized were set members of particular societies , the apostles did not baptize them in an extraordinary way , they did it by the guidance and direction of the spirit , that is true , but not by guidance of dispensation , or prerogative , whereby that was made lawfull without such inspiration had been unlawfull . but they were infallibly guided to doe that which was according to the word of god , and might stand for our direction : that in case it be orderly desired a pastor hath authoritie in his owne congregation , to receive knowne and approved christians to the seales of the covenant , hath been proved before . if the apostles dispenced the seales onely to the church , disciples , faithfull , who received the doctrine of salvation with gladnesse of heart , and were partakers of the holy ghost , then they dispenced the seales in an ordinary way , for such have title and interest to the seales by the institution and appointment of god. and every pastor by his office may and ought to dispence the seales unto such , within the bounds and limits of his calling : but the apostles dispenced the seales onely to the church , disciples , faithfull , &c. 2. an argument followeth necessarily from particular example to a generall ; when one particular is proved by another particular , by force of the similitude common to the whole kinde , under which those particulars are contained : but the practise of the apostles in baptizing disciples and faithfull , by force of similitude common to the whole kinde , agreeth with the practise of ministers receiving to baptisme the seed of the faithfull , though as yet not set members of any particular societie , in some circumstances there may be difference when yet the reason is strong , if the difference be not in the very likenesse it selfe whereupon the reason is grounded . one circumstance that is materiall to the point may overthrow the likenesse pretended , and twenty different circumstances , if they be not to the point in hand make no dissimilitude . now in this matter wee speake of , no circumstance is or can be named why we should thinke it lawfull for the apostles to baptize disciples as yet being no set members of particular societies , and the same should be unlawfull in all cases for ordinary pastors in their particular congregations , though it be desired . 3. what is done by extraordinary dispensation , that is lawfull for them onely who have received such dispensation , and by them cannot be communicated to others . but the apostles baptized by others seldome by themselves , as hath been shewed . 4. we might urge the rule which a reverend elder among you , giveth in another matter , ( scil . ) those examples which are backed with some divine precept , or which are held forth in the first institution of an ordinance , being part of the institution , or which were the constant lawfull actions of holy men in scripture , not civill but sacred so binde us to imitation , as that not to conforme thereunto is sinne . for the assumption to this proposition , it is plaine and naturall : but the practise of the apostles in receiving the faithfull , disciples , &c. is backed with divine precept , held forth in the first institution , and was their constant lawfull practise , agreeable to the practise of all others who were imployed in that service ; ergo , &c. 5. in the first consideration , you prove the seales to be the priviledge of the church in ordinary dispensation , by this passage of scripture , then they that gladly received the word were baptized : but if apostles baptize by extraordinary dispensation in your sense this testimony is insufficient for that purpose . 2 reason . our second reason . in due order , the seales belong to them to whom the grant is given , viz. baptisme to the seed of the faithfull , and the lords supper to beleevers , able to try and examine themselves : but the grant is vouchsafed to the faithfull and their seed , forgivenesse of sinnes , sanctification , adoption , and what other good things are promised in the covenant of grace are the grant or good things sealed in the sacrament . but those are granted to beleevers according to the covenant ; and they are so linked together , that under one promised all are understood ; and if one be vouchsafed , none is denied . when god promiseth to circumcise the heart , the forgivenesse of sinnes is implyed . and when circumcision is said to be the seale of the righteousnesse of faith , the circumcision of the heart by spirituall regeneration is included . to whomsoever then the spirituall gift , or inward grace of the covenant is given and granted , to them the seales of that gift and grant doth belong in their due order . but the spirituall gift or grace which is the thing signified in the sacrament , is freely granted to true beleevers , who have received the doctrine of salvation , and walk in the wayes of truth and righteousnesse , therefore the priviledges of the seales belong unto them . to this you answer . the scope of the apostle in the place , rom. 4. 11. is not to define a sacrament , nor to shew what is the proper and adequate subject of the sacrament ; but to prove by the example of abraham that a sinner is justified before god , not by works but by faith . thus as abraham the father of the faithfull was justified before god , so must his seed be ( that is , all beleevers whether jews or gentiles , circumcised or uncircumcised ) for therefore abraham received circumcision which belonged to the jews to confirm the righteousnesse which he had before , while he was uncircumcised , that he might be the father of both : but lest any one should think his circumcision was needlesse if he was justified by faith before circumcision ; he addeth that his circumcision was of no use as a seale to confirme to him his faith , and the righteousnesse which is by faith : yet as justification is not the onely thing that circumcision sealed , but the whole covenant also made with abraham and his seed was sealed thereby ; so abraham is to be considered in using circumcision not simply , or onely as a beleever without church relation , but as a confederate beleever , and so in the state and order of a visible church . though the apostle maketh mention of the righteousnesse of faith as sealed thereby , which was not that which served for his purpose . now that circumcision also sealed the church-covenant , may appear from gen. 17. 9. 10 , 11. where you may find that abraham and his seed , though beleevers , were not circumcised till god called them into church-covenant ; and there is the same reason & use of baptisme to us which serveth to seal our justification as circumcision did , yet not that alone , but also the whole covenant with all the priviledges of it , as adoption , sanctification , and fellowship with christ in affections , and the salvation of our souls , and the resurrection of our bodies . and not onely the covenant of grace which is common to all beleevers : but church-covenant also which is peculiar to confederates . according to that of the apostle , by one spirit we are baptized into one body , 1 cor. 12. 13. and by one bodie he meaneth that particular church of corinth whereunto he writeth and saith , now ye are the body of christ , and members in particular , ver . 27. and ergo church-membership is required as well to the orderly partaking of baptisme as it was of circumcision . nor do we find that circumcision was administred to all that were in the covenant of grace ( as all beleevers were ) but onely to such of them as were joyned to the people of the god of abraham . melchizedech was under the covenant of grace , so was lot , so was job and his foure friends ; yet we no where read that they were circumcised , nor do beleeve they were . so that if circumcision was administred to none but those that were joyned together in abrahams familie , and to the church of god in his seed , then may not baptisme in ordinarie course be administred to any beleevers now , unlesse they be joyned to the church of christ , for parum par est ratio . but the first is true , ergo , the second also . reply . the particulars in this answer hath been examined alreadie , and might have well been passed over , because it is tedious to repeat the same things againe and againe . two things are affirmed by you . 1. that the scope of the apostle , rom. 4. 11. was not to define a sacrament , nor to shew what was the proper and adequate subject of a sacrament . but this weakneth no part of the argument , for if the apostle do not fully define a sacrament , nor mention every particular benefit or prerogative sealed in the sacrament ; yet he sheweth sufficiently to whom the sacraments in due order do appertaine , even to the heires of salvation , to them that are justified by faith , and walk in the steps of our father abraham . and thus we argue from the text of the apostle . they that are partakers of the good things sealed in the sacrament , to them belong the seales of the covenant , according to gods institution . but they that are justified by faith are partakers of the good things sealed in the sacrament , to them belong the seales of the covenant according to gods institution . if justification be not the onely thing that circumcision sealed , this is nothing to the point in hand . for the gifts of the holy ghost is not the onely thing that is sealed in baptisme : but you confesse in your answer immediately going before , that they have right to baptisme who have received the holy ghost ; and the reason is the same of justification . besides if justification be not the onely thing that is sealed in the sacrament , it is one principall thing which doth inferre the rest . for the blessings of the covenant of grace in christ are inseparable ; where one is named , others are implyed : and where one is given , no one is absolutely wanting . christ is made of god wisedome , righteousnesse , sanctification , and redemption : whom god doth justifie , them he doth sanctifie , and them he will glorifie . 2. the second thing you affirme is , that not onely the covenant of grace which is common to all beleevers ; but church-covenant also which is peculiar to confederates is necessarie to the participation of the seales . this sense your words must beare , or else they reach not the point in hand : but this is that which should be proved substantially , and not barely affirmed ; and which ( as we conceive ) is contrary to the first institution of the sacrament , and the lawfull practise of john the baptist , our saviour christ , his apostles , and all others who are recorded lawfully to administer the seales . in gen. 17. we find the first institution of circumcision recorded , and that it was the seale of the covenant to abraham and his seed , to them that were borne in his house , or bought with his money : but we find no mention of any church covenant besides the covenant of promise which god made with abraham . there is no mention of any church-order into which abrahams family was now gathered more then formerly . god gave circumcision to abraham and his seed as a seale of the righteousnesse of faith ; but that this family was first gathered into church-order as you speak we cannot beleeve , because the scripture saith it not whether lot , job , melchizedech were circumcised or not , we will not dispute ; but if they received not the seale , we cannot think the reason to be because they were not in church-order as those times required , if any such thing had been required , we cannot think that either they were ignorant of it , or that they walked against their light : but according to the dispensing of those times we judge as they were visible beleevers , so they walked in that church-fellowship which god prescribed ; and therefore if circumcision had been the seale of such church-covenant as you conceive , it should have been given to them no lesse then to abrahams family . but of this sufficient is said before . as for baptisme it is the seal of the whole covenant , which the passages quoted prove it to be . whether it be the seale of our fellowship which christ in affliction , and the resurrection of our bodies , we leave it to your consideration : but that it should be a seal of a church-covenant which is peculiar to confederates , that to us is very strange . that it is a solemne admission into the church of christ , and that of necessitie it must be administred in a particular societie ( though in the passage to the corinthians the mysticall bodie of christ be understood ) will easily be granted . but that it is the seale of any other covenant but the covenant of grace we cannot digest . the sacraments are of god , and we must learne of god for what end and use they were ordained . but by the institution or baptisme recorded in scripture we have learned it belongeth to the faithfull , to disciples , to them that are called of god : and as for any other covenant necessarie to the right participation of the seales , there is deep silence of it in the institution , in the lawfull and approved practise of the first dispensers of these sacred mysteries . enough hath been said to this matter alreadie , but we will conclude it with the words of that reverend author whom we have cited many times before upon occasion . afterwards ( saith he ) john the baptist walked in the same steps , and by the same rule administred baptisme in the church whereof he was a member , required of all that came to his baptisme a profession of repentance , and amendment of life for remission of sinnes whereof baptisme was a seale , and preached christ to them . this order our lord jesus christ after his resurrection established to continue in the christian churches , giving a commission to his disciples to preach the gospel to the gentiles , and to gather all such as should beleeve through the world , as a testimonie to them , that the righteousnesse of faith did belong to them also , and not to the church of the jews onely . accordingly the apostles and servants of christ were carefull to observe this rule in their administring baptisme . thus peter when he saw those three thousand souls pricked in their hearts , preached unto them concerning repentance , remission of sin , christ , the promise , baptisme , faith , amendment of life , baptised those that gladly received his word , and testified the same by joyning together in the profession thereof . the same course philip took with the church that was gathered in samaria , where many were baptized , but none till they professed their beliefe of the gospel , and their receiving of the word of god. and therefore it is said expresly , when they beleeved philip preaching the things concerning the kingdome of god , and the name of jesus christ , they were baptised both men and women . when ananias was commanded to go and baptise paul , he objected against it at first , till the lord assured him that he was one to whom the seale of the covenant belonged , and then he went and did it . when peter and those that came with him saw that the holy ghost fell on cornelius , and those that were assembled at that time in his house , whilest he spake these words , to him give all the prophets witnesse , that through the name of jesus whosoever beleeveth on him shall receive remission of sinnes . peter demanded , can any man forbid water that these should not be baptised , which have received the holy ghost as well as we ? in this catalogue we see profession of faith and repentance required in them that were admitted to partake in the seals ; but there is not a word of church-covenant , either in the institution or administration of the seales before they were admitted to them . that christians are solemnly ingrafted into the body of christ , and into particular societies by the seales , is a truth acknowledged on all sides : but that ever it was deemed necessarie , that a christian should be a set member of a particular congregationall church before he were admitted to the seales , or that by divine institution any such thing is ordained as necessarie thereunto , that upon the grounds before mentioned we denie , and cannot account it lesse then an addition to the institution . for if the sacraments be seales of the covenant of grace , and baptisme by divine institution belong to disciples , faithfull , saints , who have gladly received the word of grace , are justified by faith , sanctified by the spirit , adopted to be the children of god by grace , and heires apparent to the kingdom of heaven ; then to debarre such from the seales , and their seed from baptisme , because they be not in church-covenant ( as you speake ) is an addition to the ordinance of grace , and many wayes injurious to the people of god. v. position . that the power of excommunication is so in the body of the church , that what the major part shall allow must be done , though the pastors and governors and the rest of the assembly be of another minde , and that peradventure upon more substantiall reasons . answer . if the question had been , whether the power of excommunication lies in the body of the congregation , consisting of officers and members ; our answer should be affirmative , and according hereunto is also our practise , and wee hope your judgement and ours are not different herein : but seeing the question is , whether it is so in the body of the congregation , that what the major part doth allow that must be done , though the pastors and governors , and the rest of the assembly , doe dissent upon more substantiall reasons . our answer is negative , viz. that the power of excommunication is not sealed in the congregation , neither ought it to be so in any of the churches of the lord jesus , who ought not to carry matters by number of votes against god , as this position implyeth , but by strength of rule and reason according to god. the power of the apostles was not to doe things against the truth but for the truth , 2 cor. 13. 8 and not for destruction , but for edification , 2 cor. 10. 8. and the same may be said concerning the power which god hath given to the church , and if any church among us have swerved from the rule ( which is more then we know ) we doe not allow them in such a practise , but should be ready as the lord should helpe to convince them of their sin therein . reply . this question is much mistaken , for the demand is not whether in the congregation matters should be carryed by number of votes against god , as you interpret the position , but whether the power of excommunication so lye in the body of the congregation as that sentence must proceed in externo foro , according to the vote and determination of the major part , and so whether power of admission of members doe so reside in the communitie , as that they must be refused whom the major part refuse , though the pastors and governors and part of the congregation be of another judgement , and he admitted whom the major part doth approve . and though the church hath received no power against god , but for god , yet in the execution of the power no doubt the members of that church may be of different judgements and affections , wherein the one side or other doth erre , and is deceived . now the question hereupon moved is , whether the power of the keyes be so given and committed to the society of the faithfull , as that in externall court that act or sentence must stand and be in force which the greater part shall determine amongst them which hold the power of the keyes to be given to the church . some a distinguish betwixt the power it self which they give to the church , and the execution and exercise of it , which they confine to the presbytery : b others give the power of the keyes with the exercise thereof to the whole body of the church , or if in the dispensation they attribute any thing to the officers , it is but as servants of the church , from whom they derive their authoritie . by church also some understand the communitie of the faithfull , together with their officers and guides . and here lyeth the stone at which they of the seperation stumble , and which we conceive to be your judgement and practise , wherein we required your plaine answer , with your reasons , but have received no satisfaction . you referre us to mr. parkers reasons to prove the power of the keyes to belong to the whole church , who are of farre different judgement from mr. parker in the point it selfe . and if your judgement and practise be according to that of the seperation ( which we feare ) you dissent from him , and we cannot but dissent from you upon these considerations . 1. no power agreeth to the multitude or communitie of the faithfull , but that which is given them of the lord by his positive law ; for the whole spirituall power for the gathering and government of his church is given to christ as mediator . and if the power of the keyes be derived from , and communicated by christ unto his church , of necessitie it must draw its originall from divine positive law , and can agree to none but as it is communicated . but the communicated power of the keyes with the execution thereof , christ hath not given immediately to the whole multitude , but to some persons and officers designed and appointed thereunto . peruse the severall passages of scripture , wherein power and authoritie of preaching the gospel , administring the sacraments , binding and loosing is given to the church : and it is apparent that distinct severall persons are spoken of , and not the whole communitie ; goe teach all nations , and baptize them , &c. whose sinnes yee remit , they are remitted , &c. feed my lambes , feed my sheepe , &c. were these things spoken to the whole communitie , or to speciall persons ? 2. if christ gave this power to the communitie , was it from the beginning of the church , or tooke it effect after the churches were planted and established by the apostles . not the first , for then the apostles themselves should derive their power from the communitie and societie of the faithfull , which they did not , but from christ immediately , both in respect of gifts and graces , their calling it selfe , and the designation of their persons . it is said the power of the keyes given to the apostles was given to the church , in tuitu ejusdem tanquam finis & totius . and it is true the apostles were given to the church , and the power they received was for the good of the whole ; but this is not enough . that power may be said to be received immediately by the church , as the first receptacle of it , and from it derived to others . but this power must be in the communitie as the first subject , from whom it commeth to the officers . as the power of seeing is not onely given in tuitu hominis , as the end of it , and the totum to whom it agreeth , but is in homine as the first subject from which it commeth to the eyes the apostles and other governors were given of christ for the church as for their end , and all their authoritie was given unto them for the church as for the whole : but the authoritie it selfe was immediately derived from christ , and is not in the church as the immediate subject , nor derived from the church , but from christ the king of the church . the authoritie of governors is given of christ for a gift to the church , but not for a gift absolute , that it may reside in the power of the whole church , to whom it is given , but for a conditionall gift communicated to the governors themselves for the good of the whole . it is one thing then to aske for what end or use the keyes are given , another to whom . to every one is given the declaration of the spirit for profit , i. e. for the good of the church . but was this gift given to the communitie of the faithfull first and immediately ? no ; by gift and possession it was given ●o some , but for use and profit it was publick . after the churches were established it tooke not effect ; for then it must be shewed where christ committed the power of god , first to the apostles , and after to the communitie of the faithfull . but that is no where to be found in holy scripture . the ministers and guides of the church were immediately of jesus christ , from whom immediately they derive their power and authoritie , by whom they are set over their charge , in whose name they must execute their office , whose stewards , legates and ambassadors they are , and unto whom they must give an account . yea , pastorship is the gift of christ no lesse then apostleship , and that the more because it is perpetuall in the church ; every pastor is not immediately called , but the office and order of pastors , the calling , authoritie and jurisdiction is immediately from christ , and not from the church : the steward is appointed of the master of the family alone , and hath all his authoritie and jurisdiction from him : every ambassador in the cause of his ambassage doth immediately depend upon him from whom he is sent . but if the function , order and authoritie of pastors and teachers , be immediately from christ , then it is not received from the church as the immediate receptacle . thus protestant divines dispute against papists . if bishops receive their power and authority of exercising immediately from christ , by mandate , mission , and commission from him , then they derive it not from the pope . and if presbyters receive their order jurisdiction and power of execution from christ by his mandate and commission , then they receive it not from the bishop . and by the same reason , if the power of the keyes be the immediate gift of christ to his ministers , then they derive not their power and authoritie from the people . it is usually objected that the church cannot convey what she never had , but the people may elect their pastor . whereunto the answer is direct and plaine . nothing can give that which it had not formally or virtually , unlesse it give it as an instrument ministring to one who hath it , but so it may give what it never had , nor is capable of . a steward may give all the offices in his masters house , as ministerially executing his masters pleasure . electors have not evermore authoritie over him whom they elect : but power and authoritie onely to apply that power to him whom they choose . the power and authoritie whereunto a minister is elected , is not in the people that elect him , but from christ the king and head of his church , who out of power doth conferre that office upon him . if we consider what men give , or give 〈◊〉 universally , it must be deemed that any men can make ministers , because they give not the office , gifts , or authoritie , which are from christ ●●ene . 3. if ecclesiasticall and spirituall power be in the multitude and community of the faithfull , the church doth not onely call , but make officers out of power and vertue received into her selfe , and then should the church have a true lordlike power in regard of her ministers . in the church the officers are the ministers of the people , whose service the people is to use for administration and executing their judgements , that is , pronouncing the judgement of the church ( and of god first ) against the obstinate . rob. against ber. p. 136. the officers in the church are both christs and the peoples servants and ministers . id. p. 165. for as he that will derive authority to the church maketh himselfe lord of the church : so if the church derive authoritie to the ministers of christ , she maketh herself lady and mistris over them in the exercise of that authoritie over them . for all men know it is the property of the lord and master to impart authoritie . did the church give power and authoritie to the pastors and teachers , she might make the sacraments and preaching which one doth in order no sacraments , no preaching . for it is the order instituted of god that gives being and efficacie to these ordinances . and if the power of ruling , feeding , and dispensing the holy things of god , do reside in the faithfull , the word and sacraments in respect of dispensation and efficacie shall depend upon the order and institution of the societie . if the power of the keyes be derived from the community of the faithfull , then are officers immediately and formally servants to the church , and must do every thing in the name of the church , rule , feed , bind , loose , remit and retaine sinnes , preach and administer the sacraments , then they must performe their office according to the direction of the church more or lesse , seldome or frequent , remisse or diligent . for from whom are they to receive direction how to carry themselves in their office but from him or them from whom they receive their office , whose works they do , and from whom they expect their reward ? if their power and office be of god immediately , they must do the duties of their place according to his designement , and to be accountable unto god : but if their power and function be from the church , the church must give account unto god , and the officers unto the church whom she doth take to be her helpers . if it be said that god will have the church to chuse officers to execute the power committed unto her . the answer is , either god will have her elect officers of his designement to do his work according to that power which he shall give them , and by his direction , and then they are gods servants , and not the churches , and receive their charge and function immediately from god , and not from the people : or he leaveth it to the arbitriment of the church , to chuse according to their pleasure such as must receive charge and authoritie from her . and then they must execute their office in her name so as shall seeme good unto the church , and neither longer nor otherwise . for if the ministers of the church be subject to god and christ by the intervention of the people onely , they have it from them , and not from god : but they preach or administer the sacraments , rule , or feed , and if they depend immediately upon the faithfull , viz. two or three gathered together in covenant , they must draw what in order they are to preach unto them in the name of the lord ; for from him must the ambassadour learne his arrand from whom he receiveth his commission . we forbeare to presse the a confessions and reasons of such as maintaine this opinion , that the officers of christ be both of and for the people , and that in relation as the officers are called servants , the church may be called lord. 4. moreover if the power of the keyes be given first and immediately to the community of the faithfull , what reason can be alledged why in defect of officers the church might not rule , governe , feed , bind , loose , preach and administer the sacraments , or if any faile in any office , why she might not supply that want by her power . for the power of the keyes doth containe , both authority and exercise , power being given to this end , that it might be exercised as it is vouchsafed . but the church when she is destitute of officers , cannot exercise those acts of rule , nor by her power supply the want of any officer . onely she hath a ministery of calling one whom christ hath described , that from christ he may have power of office given him in the vacant place . for these reasons ( not to insist on any more ) we judge the multitude or community of the faithfull not to be the immediate receptacle of ecclesiasticall authoritie , and so the power of excommunication not to belong to them . if consent of the churches of god be asked in this point ( to omit others ) the churches of scotland speake fully and expresly for us , in the second book of disci . cap. 1. the church as it is taken for them that exercise spirituall functions in the congregation of them that professe the truth , hath a certain power granted by god according to which , it useth a proper jurisdiction and government exercised to the comfort of the whole flocke . power is an ecclesiasticall authority granted by god the father through the mediator jesus christ unto his kirke , gathered , and having its ground in the word of god , and to be put in execution by them unto whom the spirituall government of the church by lawfull calling is committed . the policie of the kirke flowing from this power is an order or spirituall forme of government which is exercised by the members appointed thereto by the word of god , and therefore is given immediately to the office-bearers by whom it is exercised to the weale of the whole body . vt universam scripturam evolvat d. erastus , nunquam tamen inventurum verba ligandi , & solvendi aliis quam publico ministerio fungentibus , & quidem metaphoricè , divine videlicet & spiritualis potestatis respectu , tribui . sunt enim judi●ialia haec verba . &c. beza de presb ▪ p 60. see helvet . conf . ca. 18. sect. nunc ergo , &c. belgic . confess . art . 3. argentinens . conf . art . 13. bohem. confes . art . 14. vi. position . that none are to be admitted as members but they must promise not to depart or remove unlesse the congregation will give leave . answer . our answer hereto is briefly this . we judge it expedient and most according to rule , that such brethren as are in covenant with the church , and ours as fellow-members , and have committed their soules to our charge as ministers , should not forsake our fellowship , nor obruptly breake away from us when and whither they please ; but first approve themselves therein to their brethrens consciences , and take their counsell in so weightie a matter . for which we propound to consider these two reasons following . the former is drawne from the nature of the church-covenant , which consists in these foure particulars . 1. every member at his admission doth openly professe , and solemnly promise , that by christs helpe assisting , he will not onely in generall give up himselfe ( as to the lord to be guided by him , so ) to the church according to god to be directed by it , which is no more then the members of the church of macedonia , did in a parallel case , 2 cor. 8. 5. but also in particular , that he will performe all duties of brotherly love and faithfulnesse to all the members of the body , as of diligent watchfulnesse over all his brethren , thereby to prevent sin , so of faithfull admonition after their falls to regaine them to the lord , from their sinne , the former being injoyned , hebr. 3. 13. and the want thereof deeply condemned in cain , that would not acknowledge that duty of being his brothers keeper , gen. 4. 9. the latter given in charge to the church-members of israel by the hand of moses , levit. 19. 17. and so by christ himself , matth. 18 15 and by paul also to the galat. c. 6. 1 , 2. secondly , the ingagements are not made onely by the members admitted into the church , but by the church back again to the member . so that thereby the whole church in generall , and every member thereof in particular , stand as well in conscience bound to performe all duties of love and watchfulnesse to him , as he doth to them ; and this we do according to the golden rule of love and equitie injoyned by our saviour , matth. 7. 12. fearing that contrary practise of scribes and pharisees so much condemned by christ , of laying greater burthens upon others , then we our selves are willing to undergo . matth. 23. 4. 3. these promises thus lawfully and mutually made , that member , as also the whole church , are bound not onely every one for himselfe , actively to performe them , but passively also to suffer his brethren to do those offices upon and towards himself : if he neglect the former , he shall falsifie his covenant so solemnly before god , angels , and men made , and so not onely breake promise to his brother , contrary to psal . 15. 4. but also in some sort commit the sinne of ananias and saphira in lying against the holy ghost , condemned and punished severely by gods own hand , act. 5. 3. 5. 10. if he faile in the latter , he shall not onely be guiltie of the same sinne of breach of covenant with god and man as in the former ; but shall also be guilty of this folly of despising counsell so much condemned , prov. 12. 15. and 1. 7. and shall also proclaime this his folly and pride by shewing to all the church that he is wise in his own eyes , and leanes to his own wisedome both reproved , prov. 3. 7. and 23. 4. seeing need of no further light to be held forth by his brethren , then what he apprehends himselfe , which is one of the greatest properties of folly . 4. from all these things premised , it appears that we can do no lesse ( and yet we do no more ) then require a member before he depart according to our covenant thus lawfully , deliberately , and mutually made , to expresse to his brethren his desire of departing , and the place and societie to which he tends , whether to a godly church where he may be edified ; or to some corrupt assembly where he may be destroyed . and 2. his grounds and reasons which move him so to do , which if they hold good being scanned by the word , he may be not onely confirmed in his way by the consent and advise of many , but counselled also how to manage his departure for his best comfort . and so after all , solemnly with the whole churches prayers , and blessings in the name of christ dismissed : but if his grounds either be none at all , or weake and sinfull , and that his desire of departing savours of self-will , inordinate love of gaine , rash precipitancie , or a spirit of schisme , more strongly then of sound reason , then what can we do lesse without breach of covenant , then in love and tendernesse shew him his weaknesse , disswade him from his purpose , and refuse to consent . yet if after all this we see his spirit stedfastly and stiffely bent for a departure , then though we dare not act against our light by consenting or counselling , yet if his sinne be not apparent , and danger eminent , we use rather ( through indulgence in cases of like nature ) to suspend our vote against him , as not willing against his will to detain him , abhorring to make our churches places of restraint and imprisonment . but if any should object that this argument holds firme where this church-covenant is allowed to be lawfull , but with some it is questioned , and with them it avails not . ans . some indeed have questioned the necessitie of our church-covenant , but none ( we hope ) of these our reverend brethren that we write unto do question the lawfulnesse of such a covenant being nothing else for the matter of it , but a promise of doing such christian duties as the gospel of christ requires of all saints in church estate ; for we doe not herein promise to performe any new dutie to our brethren which was not before commanded us of the lord , but onely revive and renew our purposes afresh of performing such duties unto that particular body into which we are then incorporated as were before injoyned in the word , as to love each other , and to watch over each other out of love for their good , to be ready to give counsell to , and to take counsell from each other , to prevent sinne in them , or to gaine them from sinne . all which are plentifully and frequently held forth in the scriptures ; for the defect of which care and watchfulnesse , all the body shall be wrapt in the same guilt & punishment with the member that commits the sinne , as the whole church of israel was in achans sinne and punishment . secondly , it s a thing very reasonable , and a knowne fundamentall rule in all societies , that he that is incorporate thereto , and so participates of the priviledges thereof , should ingage himselfe to conforme to all such lawfull rites and orders as are expedient for the well-being of that societie , the contrary whereto will be a thing injurious in him to offer , and confusion to themselves to accept . the second ground is drawne from the necessitie that may fall upon the body if every particular member should depart at his owne pleasure . for as every societie , so much more a church of saints , both from principles of nature and christianitie also , not onely lawfully may , but in dutie are bound to endeavour the preservation of it selfe , and ergo timely to foresee and wisely to prevent all such things as would bring destruction to it selfe . now if any member might , when , whither , and wherefore he please without consent of the church depart away from it , this may by unavoydable consequence dissipate the whole ; for if one man may so depart , why may not another also , though never so usefull in that body , and whose absence might much shake the well-being of it : and if one why not two , six , ten , twentie as well ? for where will yee stop seeing any may plead the same libertie , and if members may so doe why not the pastor and teacher also ? seeing they are tyed to him by the same relation that he is to them , and so the principalls falling , the whole building must downe : and if this may be so in one church , why not in all , and so christ should have no setled church on earth . reply . it is one thing abruptly to breake away when and whither they please , and forsake fellowship , another thing not to depart or remove habitation , unlesse the congregation will give leave . also it is one thing mutually to compound and agree not to depart from each other without consent and approbation , another to require a promise of all that be admitted into societie , that they shall not depart without the churches allowance . if such a promise be required of all members to be admitted , we cannot discerne upon what grounds your practise is warranted . first , you exclude all such as be not set members from the sacrament of the supper , and their children from baptisme , and yet hinder them from entrance into church societie , because they cannot promise continuance in the place where they are resident for the present . here we desire to be satisfied from the word of god by what you require it . did the apostles ever stipulate with such as desired to be baptized , that they must abide in particular societie , and not remove thence without approbation from the church ? or did they deny the seales unto them , because they could not make any such promise ? was it ever heard of in the church of god from the beginning thereof unto this day , that any such thing was propounded unto , or required of , members to be admitted into church-fellowship ? that church covenant which is necessary was not in use in the apostles times , but the covenant they entred into bound no man to this condition for ought we reade . they did not prescribe it , no church ever yet covenanted it as necessary to the preservation of the body . secondly , it pertaines not to the whole congregation to take notice of , be acquainted with , or judge of the cause of every particular members removall . may not a servant remove from his master to another congregation ? or the father bestow his sonne or daughter in marriage to one of another congregation , but the whole church must be called to counsell in this matter ? if the assembly once grow to be populous , of necessitie they must be negligent in , or weary of such an heavy taske ; and for the present , for every one to challenge so much authoritie over other is usurpation . let it be shewed that ever by divine right this power was committed to the church , and then we will confesse it to be expedient and necessary . but till then we thinke the church is over ridged in exacting such a condition of the members , and the members themselves goe beyond their measure as busi-bodies in other mens matters , and things whereof they are not well able to judge many times , if they arrogate such power unto themselves wee allow not rashnesse , or precipitancy , pride or self-conceitednesse , we know it is meete that weightie matters should be mannaged by councell , but it is not necessary to bring every particular thing to the whole church . in the multitude of councellors there is peace , but over many councellors oft causeth distraction , and different apprehensions breed delayes . the nature of your church-covenant , as you describe it , inferreth not a necessitie of bringing every such businesse unto the church ; for you binde your selves mutually to watch over one another , and in love to admonish one another in the lord , to prevent sinne and to encourage in well-doing , as it concerneth every man within the limits of his place and calling . but this essentially tyeth not any man to a perpetuall residence in one place , for then even occasionall absence should be a breach of covenant , unlesse it be by consent and approbation of the church . you say in your covenant you promise to performe no new dutie to your brethren which was not before commanded of the lord , but onely revive and renew your purposes afresh of performing such duties to that particular body into which you are then to be incorporated , as were before injoyned in the word . but in the word of truth , it is not commanded either expresly or by consequent , that no member of a congregation should remove , or occasionally be absent from the place of his habitation , before he have acquainted the church whither he goeth , and upon what occasions , and whether the place be dangerous , where he is likely to be infected ; or safe , where he may be edified . these things are matters of weight and to be undertaken with advice , but the knowledge thereof belongeth not to every particular member of the societie . and the church shall burden her selfe above measure if she take upon her to intermeddle in all such occasions . neither is it safe to commit the determination of such matters ever to the vote of the multitude , or weight of reasons , as they shall apprehend the matter . and if such businesse must be determined on the lords day , and to goe before the administration of the word , sacraments , and almes , least the holy things be polluted by notorious obstinate offenders , wee feare the time appointed for the exercise of religion shall be prophaned with unseasonable disputes . instances might be alledged , if it were a matter to be insisted upon . as for the covenant it selfe which you mutually enter into , if therein you exact nothing but what god requires both for tryall and stipulation , far be it that we should disallow it , but if yee constraine men to meddle with things that belong not to them , and winde them up higher then god would , and straine every thing to the pitch that you seeme here to doe in this branch a godly and sober minde may well pause before he make such promise . all members of the church are not equally necessary to the preservatiō of the whole body ; & if to the removall of some , it were expedient to have the cōsent , not only of the whole society , but of neighbouring societies , ministers especially , it is very much to draw this to the removall or abode of every particular member . and if any man shall not intermeddle with every businesse of this kinde , as questioning whether it doth belong to him or no , or not aske the advice of the whole societie , as knowing the most to be unfit to counsell in such a case , doth he break his covenant therein , and so commit a sinne in a sort like the sinne of ananias and saphira ? judge your selves if in other cases you would not censure this to be an high incroachment upon christian libertie , and a strict binding of mens consciences by humane constitutions . may you not expect to heare from your own grounds that herein you have devised an expedient , or necessary rite or custome to preserve the unitie , and prevent the dissolution of the body , which never came into the minde of the lord jesus , the saviour of the church , and that in so doing ( if your exposition will hold good ) you breake the second commandement . rites and customes expedient to prevent confusion for the time , let them be observed as customes expedient , and what god requires in the examination or admission of members , let that take place according to the presidents given in the scriptures , and the constant practise of the universall church in the purest times . but to presse customes onely expedient for the time , as standing rules necessary at all times , and for all persons , to put that authoritie into the hands of men which god never put upon them , to oblige men to intermeddle further in the affaires of men , then the word doth warrant , to binde the conscience , and that under so heavy a penalty as the sinne of ananias and saphira , where god hath not bound it , and to debarre known and approved christians from the seales of the covenant , because they cannot promise as setled members to abide and stay in the societie , unlesse they shall obtaine leave of the congregation to depart , and to charge them in the meane season to be men , who against light refuse subjection to the gospel ; this is that which we cannot approve , which yet wee suspect will follow from your judgement , and desire to be resolved of in your practise . and here we intreat leave to put you in minde of that which you have considered already , schil . that the church and every member thereof hath entred into covenant , either expresly or implicitely to take god for their god , and to keepe the words of the covenant and doe them , to seeke the lord with all their hearts , and to walke before him in truth and uprightnesse : but we never finde that they were called to give account of the worke of grace wrought in their soules , or that the whole congregation were appointed to be judge thereof . you stand all of you this day ( saith moses ) before the lord your god , &c. that thou shouldst enter into covenant with the lord thy god. all the people that were borne in the wildernesse joshua circumcised , but it is incredible to thinke that among that great multitude , there was not one who did not give good testimony of the worke of grace in his soule : we reade often times that israel after some grievous fall and revolt , renewed their covenant , to walke with god , to serve him onely , and to obey his voyce , as in the dayes of joshua , the judges , david , samuel : also joash , josiah , and nehemiah , &c. but no particular enquiry was made , what worke of grace god had wrought in the hearts of every singular person . but the confession and profession of obedience was taken . when john baptist began to preach the gospel , and gather a new people for christ , he admitted none to baptisme but upon confession of their sinnes ; but we reade of no question that he put forth unto them to discover the worke of grace in their soules , or repelled any that voluntarily submitted themselves upon that pretence . it appeareth many wayes that when the apostles planted churches , they made a covenant between god and the people whom they received . but they received men upon the profession of faith , and promise of amendment of life , without strict inquirie what sound work of grace was wrought in the soul . in after ages , strangers from the covenant were first instructed in the faith , and then baptised upon the profession of faith , and promise to walk according to the covenant of grace . now the profession at first required of all that were received to baptisme was that they beleeved in the father , sonne , and holy ghost . this was the confession of the eunuch when he was baptised , i beleeve that jesus christ is the sonne of god. the creed is honoured of the ancients with glorious titles , as the rule of faith , the summe of faith , the body of faith , the perswasions of faith : but by the creed they understand that rule of faith , and law of faith , and institution of christ which was then given when he was about to ascend into heaven , and commanded his disciples , saying , go teach all nations , &c. it is true , that in after times as occasion required some other articles were added as explanations of the former , to meet with the heresies of the times which began to trouble the church . but for substance of matter in things to be beleeved , the church never required other acknowledgement of them that were to be received into the congregation of christs flock , and admitted into her communion . and for things to be done , or the practicall part , she requireth of them that were to be received to baptisme an abrenuntiation of the devill , the world , and the flesh , with all their sinfull works and lusts . the first principles then of the doctrine of christ being received , and the foresaid profession being made , the apostles , and the church following the example of the apostles , never denied baptisme unto such as sought or desired it . if this be the covenant that members admitted into church-fellowship do enter into , and this be all you require of them whom you receive , you have the practise of the apostles , and the whole church in after ages for your president . but if you proceed further then thus , and put men to declare what worke of grace god hath wrought in their soul , in this or that way , which perhaps is not determined by the word of grace , at least not agreed upon among your selves , we beseech you consider by what authority you do it , and upon what grounds you stand . but we will enter no further upon this matter , because it comes not within the compasse of these positions , and to attribute so much to private letters , as to make them the ground of another dispute we may not . vii . position . that a minister is so a minister of a particular congregation , that if they dislike him unjustly , or leave him , he ceaseth to be a minister . answer . our answer to this consists in two branches . 1. in case a minister be set aside by the church meerly through his own default . 2. by the churches default without any desert of his . in the former case it is evident he ceaseth to be a minister to them any longer , as appears in foure conclusions . 1. it is cleare from the word , that a pastor or teacher in these dayes hath no apostolicall power over all churches , but onely limited to that one church where god hath set him . paul gives not the elders at ephesus a generall commission to go teach all churches , but to go feed that one flock over which the holy ghost hath made them over-seers . act. 20. 28. so peter gives direction to elders to feed that flock of god onely which was among them , and take the over-sight thereof . 1 pet. 5. 2. 2. it is as cleare that all this power of feeding which the minister hath in that church is nextly derived to him from christ by the church , who hath solemnly called him to the work , and promised to obey him therein : for if he have it elsewhere , it must be either from christ immediately , or from some other men deputed by christ to conferre it on him , or he must take it up of himselfe . not the first , for that was proper to the apostles or apostolicall men , therefore paul proving his apostleship , saith he was called not of men , nor by men , but by jesus christ himself . gal. 1. 1. not the second , for we never read in gods word that any ordinary officers , or other besides the church , that had any commission given them from christ to call ministers unto churches . not the third , for no man taketh this honour , viz. of a priest under the law , or of a minister under the gospel , but he that is called of god , hebr. 5. 4. therefore it must needs be from christ by the church . 3. as the church in the name of christ gave this power to a minister to be what he is , and do what he doth amongst them : when such a minister shall make and manifest himself apparently , unworthy , and unfit to discharge the place , which they thus called him unto , so that they may discerne that christ the head of the church hath refused him , from being a minister unto him . they may then upon as good grounds depose him from it , as they called him to it . 4. when a church hath thus in christs name put forth this power of shutting , as before it did of opening to a minister , then he must cease to be a minister unto them any more , for we know no such indelible character imprinted upon a minister , that the ministery ceasing , the minister ceaseth also . 2. in case the church shall without cause , or sufficient weightie cause , rashly or wilfully set him aside whom christ hath set over them , and whom they so solemnly called , and promised before the lord to submit unto , and so abuse their power given them by christ ; it is deubtlesse a very great wrong unto the minister , and sinne against christ himselfe before whom it was done ; and not onely christ himself will take it ill at their hands , for such contempt done to him in his ministers according to christs speech , luke 10. 16. he that rejecteth you , rejecteth me . and gods speech , 1 sam. 8. 7. they have not cast off thee but me . but even other churches also may admonish them . and if they prove obstinate therein , withdraw the right hand of fellowship from them ; and concerning the minister himself thus deposed , seeing it is done not by christ , but by the church without christ , yea against the mind of christ , we conceive though he be by them deprived of the execution of his ministery among them , yet untill he accepts of a call to another people , he doth yet still remain a minister of christ , in whose account ( notwithstanding such deposition ) he hath true right of administration among that people . reply . the question is of ministers unjustly forsaken , or driven from the church or congregation : and your answer is for the most part of ministers set aside or deprived through their own default . we never purposed to speak one word for any unworthy minister whom christ hath put out of office , and therefore your labour to prove that such justly rejected by the church are no longer ministers might well have been saved . but setting them aside , we will in few words examine your conclusions upon which you bind the certainty of that sentence you passe against them . first , it is certain and clear from the word , that a pastor or teacher neither in these dayes hath , nor in any other age of the church , ought to have apostolicall power over all churches . the apostles had onely power to serve the church with the personall service of their apostleship . but pastorall power of ordinarie ministers or teachers they never had : and if the apostles had not the power of ordinarie ministers , much lesse can pastors receive the power of apostles , for christ gave both the one and the other order . but as the apostles were not pastors of that church to which they preached , and among whom they continued for some space ; no more do pastors become apostles if they preach the word , or dispence the sacraments to another flock or people beside their own , whereof they have the speciall oversight . but of this matter we have spoken before , and of the texts of scripture here alledged , therefore we will not repeat what hath been said alreadie : onely it seemeth somewhat strange , that you should cited those texts of scripture , as if the apostle had said , feed one flock , or feed that flock of god onely . for we find the word ( one ) or ( onely ) neither in the text expresly , nor in the sense for which it is here alledged , viz. as if he might not perform any ministeriall act in another congregation upon any occasion whatsoever . secondly , the power of feeding which the minister hath is neither confined to one societie onely , nor nextly derived to him from christ by the church . the office and authoritie of a pastor is immediately from christ . the deputation of the person which christ hath designed is from the church ministerially , but neither virtually nor formally . the consent of the people is requisite in the election of pastors and teachers we grant , the direction of the elders going before or along with them ; but the authoritie , office , and gift of a pastor is not from the people or elders , but from christ alone . when an apostle was to be chosen in the place of judas , act. 1. 22 , 23. no one had the handling of that businesse , but peter declared unto the brethren present , what an one ought to be taken , and they present two , whereof one was elected by lot . in this example somethings are extraordinarie , for one onely was to be chosen , and that immediately by god himselfe : and somethings ordinarie for our imitation . for if peter would do nothing without consent of the disciples , then may not ordinarie elections be passed without consent and approbation of the church , but it is not a popular election , not governed by the fore-direction of elders , which is concluded from this passage of scripture : but a church election by the free consent , and judgement of the faithfull with the fore-leading of the presbyterie . when deacons were to be chosen , act. 6. 1. 6. in the church of jerusalem , it was done by the consent of the church . the mutinie of the hellenists against the hebrews occasioned that election , but was no cause why it was made by free consent . the apostles shew what persons must be chosen , and who ever thought the church was left at libertie to chuse as she please without direction . but in this election the people did first chuse , the apostles onely directing whom the people ought to make choice of : when most commonly the apostles instructed the people , and went before them in the election , and they consented . act. 14. 23. the apostles by consent chose elders , and so in every matter of great importance belonging directly to the whole bodie of the church , whether severally in one congregation , or joyntly in many , the consent of the faithfull by observation of the apostles was required . act. 11. 22. and 15. 22. and 16. 4. 1. cor. 8. 19. but in the primitive times after the apostles , one church might elect and chuse a pastor for another . as ignatius exhorts the phyladelphians , that they would elect a pastor for the church of antioch . and so when the east church was infected with arrianisme , basil , epist . 69. 70. 74. though it a fit meanes to remove the heresie , if the bishops of italie being sent thither did condemne the heresie , and he imploreth the aid of the bishops of italy , france , and all the east . cyprian saith , all bishops sunt mutuae concordiae glutine copulati : that if any hold heresie the rest should help . it would be too long to reckon up examples which in this case might be produced . if here it be questioned whether your election of the people be essentiall to the calling of a minister : we answer . 1. a thing is essentiall two wayes . first , as absolutely necessarie , so that the thing can have no existence without it . secondly , as necessarie to the integritie of the thing , so that it is maimed without it . againe , either the people be few in number , and simple apt to be led aside , unable to judge of the sufficiencie of their minister , or they be more in number , increased in wisdome , sound in faith , and able to discern betwixt things that differ . in the first sense the election of the people is not necessary or essentiall ; but in the second we cannot say he is no minister that is not chosen by the people , but his calling in that respect is maimed . if the people be few and simple , apt to be deceived , they stand in more need of guidance and direction , both from their own elders , and other churches . if the people be many in number , full of wisdome and understanding , their libertie to choose is the greater ; and it is the greater wrong to be deprived of it . the practise of the apostles and the primitive churches for many ages will confirme this ; for sometimes men were propounded to the church to be chosen : sometimes the choice was wholly left to them : and was not that for our direction , that more libertie is given where the danger is lesse , and more restraint and caution used where the danger is more apparent , that if they be left to themselves , either an ill or unfit choice will be made ? in reason this is evident , for the childs consent is required in marriage , but the more able he is to choose for himselfe , the more libertie may parents grant , the lesse able , the more watchfull must they be ; and so in this businesse . brotherly societie requires that we mutually exhort , admonish , reprove and comfort each other as occasion requires , and as need requires . it is a dutie of neighbour-churches to lend their helpe to their brethren in the choice and election of their minister . when the scripture willeth that one should admonish another , it is not onely a command to every singular man towards his fellow , but also to any whole company too : another societie bellarmine asketh , quo jure unus populus episcopum alterius populi elegere potest ? junius answereth ; certe charitatis jure & communione sanctorum . and paul when he teacheth that all the faithfull are members of one mysticall body of christ , who ought to have a mutuall care one of another , laid the foundation of this policie . it is a blemish in the calling of a minister , if either the people be not fit to choose , or being fit they be shut forth from the choice , but this maime doth not make a nullicie in his calling ; for in every true church where the word is preached and received , and the sacraments for substance rightly administred , there is a true and lawfull ministery , and a true and lawfull calling of that ministery , though in some things defective . in the church of god all sound and saving truth is to be found , for it is the pillar and ground of truth , and where the true profession of all saving truth , with the right use of the sacraments for substance is to be found , there is the church , which ordinarily cannot be had , maintained and continued without a lawfull ministery , nor that without a calling . the saving truth of god & a lawfull ministery , are both essentiall to a true church . something of this remaines in every compleat societie that hath any thing of the church ; and for essence and substance they are true in every true , lawfull , compleat societie . the profession of the truth may be true and sound in all necessary and fundamentall points , though mixed with diverse errors , and the ministery for truth and substance lawfull , though many wayes deficient . in the true church there is a true ministery , but the true church hath continued there by the blessing of god , where the election of ministers hath been given away by the people , or taken from them . in the primitive church , when the people had a voyce in the choice of their pastor , oftentimes there were factions in the church , the people stood against their guides and challenged the whole power of election to themselves . sometimes they were divided among themselves . sometimes they gave away their power , at least in part , and sometimes ministers were set over them without their councell and advice , whose ministery notwithstanding was not reputed voyde and of none effect . if it be objected that many things were amisse in those primitive elections , what will follow thence , but that the ministery may be lawfull and good , where there be many wants in the manner of calling . if this be not granted , what shall be done when the people and their elders be divided in the choice of a fit officer . if the people prevaile against their elders , he whom they choose is no minister to them , because not chosen by their suffrages : if the elders against the people , he whom they approve is no minister unto them , because not chosen by their suffrage ; and so if there be dissention they must seperate from , or excommunicate one another , because he is no minister to the one whom the other approve . the orthodox pastors did professe , so that the donatists would returne to the true and apostolicall doctrine , they would not disallow their bishops , that they might understand that catholiques did not detest christian consecration ( as augustine speakes ) by humane error . the high priesthood was bought and sold for money , and sometimes made annuall , and every yeare new high priests created , sicut isti praefecti quos singulis annis promutant reges , as sol : jarchi saith . that as every man would lay out more or lesse money , he should get or lose the priesthood , which may be seene in the examples of jason or menelaus . neverthelesse , so long as the jewes continued the true church of god , the priesthood was true also . the reformed churches who have seperated from the abhominations of rome , professe the first reformers among them received some ordinary calling in the romane synagogue . they that thinke the basest of rome , will acknowledge baptisme unduely administred by priests or jesuites , to be for substance the holy sacrament of christ . and if the baptisme of god may be derived from the ministery , it is no absurditie to thinke that the first seekers of reformation derived authoritie from christ to preach the word and administer the sacraments by them , as stewards used of god to set them in that office : for the seekers of reformation derived their authoritie from god , and that which is instituted by christ , is not made voyde by the corruptions of men . the third and fourth consideration we will passe over , because from what hath been spoken , it is easie to understand in what sense they may be admitted , and in what denyed , and we have no desire to trouble you with the examination of that which falleth not into question . as for the second branch of your answer , that in case the church shall without cause , or without sufficient weightie cause , rashly or wilfully set him aside whom christ hath set over them , yet he still remaines a minister of christ ( untill he accepts of a call from another people ) in whose account , notwithstanding such depositions , he hath true right of administring among that people . we know not well your meaning ; if this be your minde that a minister lawfully called and set over one congregation , is to be esteemed a minister in the usuall church , as the particular church hath unitie with , and is part of the universall or catholique : and as a partie baptized is not baptized into that particular congregation onely , but into all churches ; and that the ministery is one , cujus à singulis in soliaum pars tenetur , as cyprian speakes ; and therefore though the minister be unjustly cast off by one congregation , yet he is not to be esteemed as no minister , we freely consent . but if your meaning be that he is onely by right a minister of that particular congregation , because unjustly deposed , as formerly in the execution of his office he was a minister to them onely , and to none other societie whatsoever , or in what respect soever ; your opinion is contrary to the judgement and practise of the universall church , and tendeth to destroy the unitie of the church , and that communion which the churches of god may and ought to have one with another ; for if he be not a minister in other churches , then are not the churches of god one , nor the ministers one , nor the flocke which they feed one , nor the communion one which they have each with other . and if the pastor derive all his authoritie to feede from the church , when the church hath set him aside , what right hath he to administer among that people . if they erre in their deposition , it is true they sinne against christ . but as they give right to an unworthy man to administer among them , if they call him unjustly , so they take right from the worthy if wrongfully they depose him . the minister is for his ministery the office for the execution , and so the pastor and the flocke are relatives : and therefore if their election gave him authoritie among them to feed , their casting him off hath stripped him of the same power which formerly they gave him . and his ministery ceasing , he should cease to be their minister , if he stood as minister onely to that congregation in every respect . whit. de pont . q. 4. sec. 10. pa. 559. certe lex naturae & ratio clamitat cujus est instituere ejus est destruere , sive destituere , ad quem institutio pertinet ad eundem destitutionem , seu destructionem pertinere . rob. aga . b. p. 214. if the congregation may chuse and elect their governours , then they may refuse and reprobate them . viii . position . that one minister cannot performe any ministeriall act in another congregation . answer . if you take ministeriall act improperly as sometimes it is taken by some , onely when the minister of one church doth exercise his gifts of praying and preaching in another church , being by themselves so desired . then we answer , in this sense a minister of one church may do a ministeriall act in another , which he doth not perform by vertue of any calling , but onely by his gifts ; and thus upon any occasion we mutually perform those acts one in anothers churches : but if you meane by ministeriall act , such an act of authoritie and power in dispensing of gods ordinance as a minister doth perform to the church , whereunto he is called to be a minister ; then we deny that he can so perform any ministeriall act to any other church but his own , because his office extends no further then his call . for that solemne charge , act. 20. 28. is not to feed all flocks , but that one flock onely , over which the holy ghost hath made them over-seers . if the question were propounded to any minister so exercising in an others church , which was once to our saviour by the chief priests and elders : by what power doest thou these things , and who gave thee this authoritie ? let that minister whosoever he be , study how to make an answer . reply . the preaching of the word , publick prayer in the congregation met together solemnly to worship god , and the administration of the sacraments , are acts properly ministeriall ( if any other ) to be performed by power and authoritie from christ , as you acknowledge , for the preaching of the word , and dispensation of the seales in your second consideration . but these acts one minister may performe in another congregation , or towards the members of another church . you know by whom your question hath been propounded touching one ministers exercising in another ministers church , and how it hath been answered ; and if you see more light and truth then formerly , we would desire you substantially to confute what answers some of you have returned to that demand . to admit ( saith mr. j. d. ) those that are known members of another church to communion in the sacraments upon fitting occasions i hold lawfull , and do professe my readinesse to practise accordingly . again , i conceive that ( besides my membership else where , and the right which those churches give to known passants of being admitted to the communion for a short time ) both himself and the whole church acknowledge me for a member with them for the time of my abode in that service , which they testified by desiring the help of my publick labours , and their cheerfull admittance of me to that ordinance during that time without the least scruple . and if a minister may pray , preach , blesse the congregation in the name of the lord , and receive the sacrament with them , being thereunto requested ; we doubt not but by consent of the pastor and the congregation he may lawfully dispense the seals amongst them also as need and occasion requires . that distinction of preaching by office , and exercising his gifts onely , when it is done by a minister , and desired of none but ministers , and that in solemne , set , constant church-assemblies , we cannot find warranted in the word of truth , and therefore we dare not receive it . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a63200-e680 it is truly observed by master davenport out of an. bros . offic. l 1. c. 1 et quantum libet quisque profecerit , 〈◊〉 est qui doceri non indige●● d●m vivit . appoll . preface to the reader . were not these men ( saith cann against robin ) superstitiously addicted to their new devise , that beware how to reject the unanimous judgment and practice of all learned men and true churches . stay against straying . pag. 47. i am and shall be always ready to give all due respect to those good customes of churches , which are taken upon good warrant and ground , and long continued among gods people . i. d. apol p. 31. good customes taken up by the churches upon good grounds should not lightly be broken or laid downe , wherein i doe fully agree with the authour of that elaborate commentary upon the fourth chapter of iohn , i. d. apol. sect. 12. examina . p. 151. notes for div a63200-e1030 this argument is used by the abridgment against conformity to the ceremonies , and we do not see but it is as strong against this liturgy . whereas the publisher of this answer to the six positions , refers the reader to mr. cottons answer unto mr. ball for satisfaction in this point concerning set formes of prayer . the reader is earnestly intreated to compare master balls treatise , and mr. cottons answer with seriousnesse and indifferencie , because mr ball having received that answer before the publishing of his treatise ( being much enlarged , whereof mr , cotton was ignorant ) was confident , that with addition of some marginall notes ( which in reference thereto he added ) his treatise would sufficiently defend it selfe , against all the assaults , which that answer made against it . notes for div a63200-e1840 we may not communicate at all in that ministery , which is exercised by an unlawfull person or in an unlawful . place robinson against bern. counsell debated p 17 ibid pag 79. esa . 56. 10. ezech 41. 7 , 8. mic. 3. 11 , 12. ier. 5. 31. esa . 9. 15 , 6. ioh. 2. 16. math 5. 20 , 21. & 15. 4 , 5. & 23 1 — 3 ▪ 14. math. 16 6. 12. & 15. 14. see whitak de pontif . q. 4. f 10. pag. 557. phil. 1. 15. h●s . 4 6 , 7. 1 sam. 2. 12 , 13 , 14 , 17 , 24. ier 8. 8 , 9. mic 3. 11 , 12. phil. 1. 15. helv cons . cap. 18 § 11. & 19 §. 9 , gal. conf . art . 28. arg. conf . art. 13 saxon. conf . art. 12 zep de sa● l. 2. c. 6. art. of religion , hybern . art. 70 carlton praelect de ecclesia , cap. 20. beza de presbyt . et excōmunicat . p. 25 26. ista vero , quia nonnulli à sacris caetib . & sacrament . usu propter aliorum vitia ultro abstinent i. e. seipsos excommunicant magnam reprehensionem merentur . we see no warrant why for every particular act , that in a larger sence is idolatrous , adjoyned to gods true worship , we should forbeare our presence at the true worship it self . unreason . of seperation . answ to 6. argument . compare what master i. d. hath written in defence or excuse in resorting to the assemb . of the separatists , called brownists . apol. sect. 5. exam . p. 61. & apol. sect. 28 exam . pag. 246. notes for div a63200-e2560 rom. 16 16. 1 cor. 11 16. & 14. 33. rom 16. 4. gal ● . 22. 1 thess . 2. 14. 1 cor 16 ▪ 19. gal. 5. 2. act 15 ▪ 2. & 19 37 & 15. 25. 38. eph. 4. 4 , 5. acts 2. 38. 41. gen 1. 10. math. 28. 14 20. robins . against bern. reas . discus . pa. 77. lev 2. 13. deut. 29. 12. & 16. 17. 18. rom. 3. 2 deut. 4. 6. psa . 247 19 20 neh. 9. 13. act. 7. 38. luk. 16. 29 2 cor 5 19 & 114. deut 33. 3. io. 8. 30 robin against bern p 15. act. 14 22. tit. 1 5. rob : against bern. act 11 26. la the same verse the some persons are called the church disciples , and christians pag. 126. 127. 211 &c. fo pag. 51 ezeck . 46. 10 see lavater on ezek math 18. 20. ier. 14. 9. ios. 24. 14 rom. 10. 14 ▪ act 2. 42 as christ is that one great pastor , so hath hee generally one fold and flock , iohn 10. 16. ezeck . 34 22. 23 which is his church , as he saith . and ye my flock , the flock of my pasture are men , ezek. 34. 31. aynsw . cant 1. 8. sure it is that hee is none of christs sheepe visibly , or in respect of men which is without christs sheepfold , for there is one sheepfold and one sheepheard . iohn 10. 16. robins against bern likelihoods , p. 61. hieron . tom . 2. ep. 85. nec altera roma urbis ecclesia , altera totius orbis existimanda est , & gallia , & britannia , & asia , &c. & omnes barbarae nationes unum christum adorant , unam observant regulam veritatis . 1 cor 12 28. col. 1. 2● . 1 cor. 12 , 13. 1 cor. 15 9. gal. 1. 13. phil. 3. 6. 1 tim. 3. 15. 1 pet. 5. 2. pastores sunt omnes , sed grex unus qui ab apostolis omnibus unanimi consensu pascatur . cypr. de unitate ecclesiae . et si pastores multi sumus , unum tamen gregem pascimus , cypr. l. 3. epistola 13. cum sit a christo una ecclesia per totum mundum in multa membra divisa item episcopatus unus episcoporum multorum concordi numero diffusus , &c. cypr. l. 4. ep. 7. iohn 9. 22. 35. & 12. 42 & 16. 2. athanasius may be for an example . gen. 17. 7. lev. 26. 12. apo. 1. 11. 13. heb. 16. 10. rob. against bern. pa. 127. rom. 4. 12. 18. gen. 12. 3. gal. 3 6 , 7 , 8 , 15 , 16 , 17 rob. against ber. pa. 222. see mr. i. d. apol. 11. sect. exam p. 117. i. d. apol. 5. sect. ex●m . pag. 61 , & 18. bucer . diff . ep . 3. pa. 43. & ep 48. pa. 226. act. 8. 6. & 15 4. act. 8. 12. 14. & 18. 12. acts 2. 41. & 4. 4. & 5 14. & 6. 1. & 6. 7 ezra . 2. 36 , 37 , 38. act. 6. 2 & 8. 1. 15. 2 , 4 , 6 , 22 , 23 & 16. 4. & 21. 18. 18. act. 11. 21. act. 11 24 25 act. 13 12 et 14 27 et 15. 30. 34 , 35. acts 19 10. & 16. 9. & 19. 27. acts 19. 19. robinson against bern p. 196. euseb hist l. 6. c. 35. lat 43. graec. 33. ruff. ●hit de sacra contr . de bapt . qu 2 & 3. pag 237 , 238. atters . of the sacr : l. 2. c. 6 fol. 211. 〈◊〉 de presbyt . pag. 79. act. 14 23. col. 4. 17 1 pet 5. 2 act 20. 28. ioh. 4. 2. & 23 23. mark. 9. 15. act 17 22 23 32. & 19. 8. 9 rob. against bern. p 151 these keyes in d. &c. in the corporation ( the church ) there is alwayes the whole power of christ to residing , which you may call officers for the use of it selfe , to which it is sufficient that it can without officers use this power for things simply necessary ; as for receiving in of members by profession of faith and confession of sins , for edifying of them by exhortation and comforts in the ordinance of prophesying , and so for excommunication . rob. against b. pag. 224. see rob. against ber. pag. 130. 131. 132. if you call it consultation in an assembly wherein all have equall power and voyce in determining things some one going before the rest idem pag. 202 robins . against bern. coun. debated , p. 32. ibid. p. 79. 1 cor. 11 28. 2 cor. 23. 5. beza de presbyt . & excom . pag. 32 robins . against bern. pag. 252. acts. 20 28 the word of god and cano is of councels will have pastors so to care for their own flock , that they forbid them not to care for the whole church , especially in a time of common combustion . the answer of some brethren . pag. 1● . publica dei invocatio non minima pars communis in unâ fide consensionis . beza contra erastum , de presbyt pap . 13. euseb hist . 5. c. 26. graec. chami●● . panst . ●om 2. l. 10. c. 8. sect. 16. the churches plea , pag 44. apol. pag. 117 & ●98 . orig. in isa . hom. 6. qui vocatur ad episcopatum , vocatur ad servitutem totius ecclesiae . chrysost . in 2 cor. hom . 18. vniversae curam gerimus . see cham panstr . tom. 2. pag. 10. cap. 12. sect. 8 , 9 , 10. &c. jun. animadv . in bellar. contro . 5. lib. 1. c. 3. not . 3. & cap. 7 not . 7. act. 13. 15. rom. 16 3 12. phil. 2. 15 , 16. & 4. ● . iam 5. 19 , 20. act. 4. 16. 40 & 9 38. & 10. 5. & 11 19. 21 1 cor. 14. 23 , 24. esay 2. 3. eza 8. 23. io. 1. 41. 45. & 42. 9. & 12. 20. revel . 3. 9 what example have you but grounds for the baptising of infants ? or where read you of any officer excommunicated by any rob. against ber. p. 214. we may not expect examples of any pastors in scriptures : who did thus . i. d. apol. 9. sect. exam . p. 103. see i. d. apol. texts . exam pa. 288. exod 12 48. exod. 44 7. col 2. 1 1 , 12. erast so objects against bern-sicut a circumcisione ad baptismum argumentamur ut probemus infantes esse baptizandos , ita etiam licet ab agno paschatis ad coenam domini , &c. whereto hee truly replyeth . ego vero , non nego licere &c. at non temere & universaliter . beza contra erast . pag. 23. lev. 12. 2. 3. & 22. 27 exo. 22. 30 , eph. 2 ▪ 15. etiam si daremus nullam legi ab apostolis excommunicationem non tamen sequeretur ita esse , quum satis constet non omnium singularia apostolorum gesta perscripta fuisse . bez. de presb. p. 7. et si de melchizedeck & iobo quae huc adferuntur non sunt extra controversiam . nam foedere cum abra. inito non excluduntur ij qui ante erant in foedere sed accensentur foederi . ita autem se habuit melchizedeck , &c. omnino enim consors promissionis divinae fuit ante foedus cum eo initum . gen. 17. job vero & credens fuit promissionibus foederis & de sententia veterum fuit circumcisus etiam haereditariâ circumcisione a paterno maternoque sanguine . vt elegantèr scribit author libri de verâ circumcisione qui hieron . ad scribitur . iun. animadv . in bellar . contrav . 4. lib. 3. cha . 16. not . 13. io. d. exam of tents p 309. mat. 3. 7. io 4 2. act. 2 37. 38. 41. & 8 37. & 10. 47. 48. 1. cor. 5. 12. 1. joh. 2. 19. 1. cor. 11. 19. rev. 22. 15. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . 1. tim. 3. 7. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , & script . ethnici apud patres audiunt . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . matth. 8. 1● . ephes . 2. 12. rob. against ber. p. 101. * mr. io. d. apol. sect. 40. exam . p. 182. what though this inconvenience do arise sometimes through mans corruption it should be otherwise ; and we must ever consider of the nature of gods ordinances in their right use , &c. rob. against ber. pa. 213. respondit caam nullam fuisse cur io. bapt. istos accedentes rejiceret ut qui ad ejus bapt . venirent cum peccatorum agnitione nec ipse potestatem haberet eos excommunicandi etiamsi fuissent excom . digni . beza de presb. p 23. recte sane quis illos à sacris prohibuerat , &c. etsi sit tam sceleratus quispiam quam esse existimatur tum si tale judicium sibi quisque sumat quae mox fuerit ecclesie facies ? sed preterea tenendum est istud in hoc negotio inita cujuspiam cons . non probabillas rectam alterius consciam . id. pa. 26. id in privatorum arbitrio relinquere ut alibi diximus & periculosum nimis & toti ecclesiae valde damnosum fuisset . id. p. 80. demonstr . of disc . ca. 4. rob. against bern. likely veiwed . p. 40. john 4. 2. math. 28. 19. 1 cor. 14. 34 , 35. tit. 2. 11 , 12. rob. ag . ber. pa. 206. rob. ag . bern. pa. 239. matth. 3. 6 , 7. ioh. 4. 2. and 3. 22. matt. 28. 19. 20. act. 2. 37 , 38. act. 8. 12. act. 8. 47. & 11. 16. 17. act. 8. 37. act. 10. 47. and 11. 16. 17. act. 9. 18. act. 16 , 14. 33. 1. cor. 1. 17. matth. 28. 19. act. 2. 41. and 8. 12 , 13 , 37. helv. conf . c. 20. gallic . sect. 35. anglic. & ab eo neminem qui velit profiteri nomen christi ne infantes quidem christianorum hominum , &c. scot. conf . c. 23. belgic . act . 34 zengerm . conf . de bapt. infant . pro. 44. argent . conf . ca. 17. saxon. confes . ca. 14. palab . conf . sect. ad usum vero ipsum , &c. rob. against ber. pa. 92. matth. 28. 19. act. 2. 41. & 8. 12 13. 37. and 10. 47. and 2. 39. 1 cor. 7. 19. act. 8. 27. act. 4. 15. joh 4 , 2 , 3. & 3. 27. act. 10. 48. whit. de sacra . q. 3. de bap. cap. 2. pa 260. act. 8. 12. & 9. 18. 1 cor. 1. 17. against b. pa. 88. see j. d. ap. sect. 12. pa. 152 , 153 , 154. deut. 30. 6. rom. 10. 6 , 7 , 8 , 9. rom. 4. 11. gen. 17. 11 , 12 and 26. 4. act 2. 38. gal. 3. 26. 27. tit. 3. 5. mat. 20. 23. 1 pet. 3. 21. 1 cor. 15. 19. 1 cor. 1. 30. matth. 3. 6. 7. mark 1. 4. 5. luk. 13. 3 16. matth. 28. 19 , 20. mar. 16. 15 , 16. act. 2. 37. 47. act. 8. 12. 14. act 9. 11-17 . act. 10. 43-48 . notes for div a63200-e9420 v●d . park . pol. ecclesiastica . l. 3. c. 1 , 2 &c. a fen. theol. lib. 7. park . de pol. lib. 3. c. 1. j. d. apol. 27. sect. exam . pa. 238 , 239 , 240. b rob. against ber. pa. 182. by two or three are meant the meanest communion or societie of saints , with or without officers . rob. against ber. certaine observations , p. 4. onely he that is of the true visible church and furnished with the power of christ , the keyes of the kingdome for the censure can admonish his brother in order , and those degrees which the word prescribeth mat. 28. 15. 17. id pa 99. the power as to receive in , so to cut off any member is given to the whole body together of every christian congregation , and not to any one member apart , or to more members seque●tred from the whole , using the meetest number for pronouncing the censures , id. pa. 124-126 . if the brethren have libertie in the ordinance of prophesying , they have also libertie in the other ordinance of excommunication , for they are both of the same nature ; looke to whom christ gave the one key of knowledge , to them he gave the other key of discipline , rob. against b●rn . pa , 238 , 239. mat. 28. 19 28. joh. 20. 21 , 22. & 21. 15 , ●6 . gal. 1. 1. ioh 21. 22. whit. de pont . q. 8. c. 2. 3. 1 cor. 3. 22. & 4. 1. 1 tim. 3. 15. authoritas rectorum pro dono quidem ecclesiae à christo data est , sed non pro dono absoluto , ut penes totam ecclesiam resideat cui datur , sed pro dono conditionali , ut rectoribus ipsis communicetur ad totius aedificationem , park . de polit. lib. 3. cap. 8. 1 cor. 12. 7. 1 cor 3. 12. 1 tim 3. 15. 1 cor. 4. 1. act. 20. 28. eph. 4. 8. 11. 1 co. 12. 28 , 29 2 co 5. 19 , 20. tit. 1. 7. successor habet jurisdictionē ab eo a quo praedecessor , alioqui non verè succedit . but pastors and teachers are the successors of the apostles . whit. de pont . q. 8. c. 3. fr : victor rel . 2. de potest ecclesiae q. 2. alphons . de castr . li. 2. c. 24. de insta . haeret . whit. de pont . q. 8. c. 1. cham. panstr . ●om . 2. lib. 11. c. 18. sect . 11. ames bel-enerv . tom . 2. l. 3. c. 1. ministri ecclesiastici sunt ecclesiae tanquam objecti circa quod versantur ministri sunt christi tanquam principalis causae & domini à quo pendent ministri sed nullo modo episcoporum . omnis legatus in causâ legationis suae immediatè pendet ab eo à quo mittitur , & instrumento mandatorum in corrupto est indelebilis . a we denie the order of elders to be superiour to the order of saints , since it is not an order of mastership but of service . rob. against bern. pa. 201. it were a strange thing that men could have no command over their servants , as i have oft shewed the church-officers to be her servants . id. p. 214. the order of servants is inferiour to the order of them whose servants they are : but the order of church-officers is an order of servants , and they by office to serve the people , id. p. 215. 227. notes for div a63200-e10320 heb. 13. 1. pro. 12. 19. & 1. 7. 23. gen 4. 4. 9. levit. 19. 17. mat. 18. 15. gal. 6. 1. rob. ag . bern. pa. 230. exod. 24. 37. deut. 2. 14. & 4. 3. 4. & 9. 7. ezek. 16. 6. 8. nū . 23. 48. 50. deut. 29. 10. 11 , 12. josh 24. 1. 14. 23 , 24 , 25. iudg. 2. 8. 11. & 3. 9. 15. & 6. 7. & 10. 10-17 . 2 chr. 15. 12. 2 kin. 11. 17. & 23. 3. 2 chr. 34. 31. heb. 10. 29. 30. act. 2. 38. & 8. 37. & 19. 17 , 18 , 19. act. 8. 37. notes for div a63200-e11120 whit. de pont . q. 1. ca. 1. p. 14. ep 13. li. 3. rom 15. 14. heb. 3. 13. bel. de cler. li. 1. c. 7. jun. animad . contr . 5. l. c 7. not . 13. rom. 12. 12. theod. hist . l. 4. c. 6. aug epist . 110. & 225. socrat. hist . l 7. c. 34 , 35. 39. zozom . hist . l. 2. c. 18 , 19. nazian . in epitaphium patris evagr. l. 2. c. 5. 8. theod. hist . l. 5. c. 23. jun. animadver in bel. cont . 5. l. 1. c. 7. not . 16 , 17. cartur . reply 2d . part 1. pa. 211. illiric . catal . test . li. 2. tit . ecclesiae gubern . jos . antiq. l. 20. c. 18. c. 4. see ambros . de officijs . l. 1. c. 50. hieron . ad ocean & epist. ad nepotian . t. c. reply 1. pa. 41. a revet . cathol . orth . tract . 2. q. 8. sect. 3. cartw. reply 2. par . 1. pa. 273. notes for div a63200-e11870 to baptise is a duty of the pastors pastoriall office . i. d. apol . ser. exam . pa. 287. exam. of texts , pa. 290. apol. exam . of texts . p. 288. a letter of many ministers in old england requesting the judgement of their reverend brethren in new england concerning nine positions written anno dom. 1637 : together with their answer thereunto returned, anno 1639 : and the reply made unto the said answer and sent over unto them, anno 1640 / by simeon ash, and william rathband. ashe, simeon, d. 1662. 1643 approx. 316 kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from 50 1-bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : 2008-09 (eebo-tcp phase 1). a70435 wing l1573a estc r11945 12094848 ocm 12094848 53955 this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons 0 1.0 universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase 1, no. a70435) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set 53955) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, 1641-1700 ; 238:e59, no 20 or 111:6) a letter of many ministers in old england requesting the judgement of their reverend brethren in new england concerning nine positions written anno dom. 1637 : together with their answer thereunto returned, anno 1639 : and the reply made unto the said answer and sent over unto them, anno 1640 / by simeon ash, and william rathband. ashe, simeon, d. 1662. rathband, william, d. 1695. [12], 90 [i.e. 86] p. printed for thomas vnderhill ..., london : 1643. errata: p. [2]. reproduction of original in thomason collection, british library and harvard university libraries. marginal notes. created by converting tcp files to tei p5 using tcp2tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between 1473 and 1700 available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the 25,363 texts created during phase 1 of the project have been released into the public domain as of 1 january 2015. anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. 5% (or 5 pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of 100 instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level 4 of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p5, characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng church polity -early works to 1800. congregational churches -doctrines. new england -church history -17th century. great britain -church history -17th century. 2006-02 tcp assigned for keying and markup 2006-03 apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images 2007-04 ali jakobson sampled and proofread 2007-04 ali jakobson text and markup reviewed and edited 2008-02 pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a letter of many ministers in old england , requesting the judgement of their reverend brethren in new england concerning nine positions . written anno dom. 1637. together with their answer thereunto returned , anno 1639. and the reply made unto the said answer , and sent over unto them , anno 1640. now published ( by occasion mentioned in the epistle to the reader , following in the next page , ) upon the desire of many godly and faithfull ministers in and about the city of london , who love and seeke the truth . by simeon ash , and william rathband . 1 thes . 5. 21. prove all things ; hold fast that which is good . london , printed for thomas vnderhill , at the signe of the bible in great woodstreet . 1643. i have diligently perused this reply to the answer , of the ministers of new-england , to the nine positions which i have approved , and judge very necessarie , and seasonable to bee printed , and published , iuly the fifth , 1643. iames cranford rector of christophers london . errata . page 22. marg. read romae . p. 33 line 27 r. society . p 37. l. 21. r. of all true churches . p 37. l. 3● . r. parium . p. 47. l. 41 r. saith . p 48. l. 30. r. quin. p. 50. l. 31 r. ordinance . the faults escaped in the quotation p. 5● . in some copies , the reader is desired to correct by beza de presb. p 57 l. 7. r. is the same . p 61 l 25. r. objection . p. 61. l. 28. r. were dispensed . p 64 l ●4 r. which without . p. 67. l. 14. r parium . p. 67 l. 29 ▪ r. therefore to them , p. 6● . l. 28. r. with christ . to the reader . good reader , vpon the receipt of the answer returned unto the nine positions , master ball moved by the request of brethren , drew up this reply , which upon perusall and joynt approbation , was directed unto the reverend elders of the severall churches in new england . the reply sent miscarrying in the hand , to which it was committed , though both letters and printed bookes trusted in the same hand were delivered : hereupon another copie was from new england desired , and accordingly prepared in the yeare following . in the meane time , the answer being tendered to the presse , it was judged more meete to keepe the reply in readinesse to attend the publishing of the answer , then to part with it in the other way . this intelligence was the last yeare conveyed into new england , since which time , there hath been an expectation to see that in print , which now is sent abroad to open view . by this relation it is manifest who are voluntiers , and who are pressed to come forth as defendants in these controversies . these differences betwixt the loving brethren of old england and new , had not been made thus notorious , if some who cry up the church way in new england , as the only way of god , had not been forward , to blow them abroad in the world . but surely the providence of god is remarkeable in bringing these questions into debate at this time . when the ministers of the gospell from all the counties in the kingdome are called together by both houses of parliament , to consult about the healing of our breaches , which are very many and dangerous : the copie of this reply being committed to our custodie we are necessitated to appeare in the publication of it : yet we shall preface nothing concerning the treatise it selfe , because our known respects to the reverend and judicious author will tender us partiall , and our testimony can adde no credit to his works which withall indifferent readers will plead sufficiently for their own acceptance . if this discourse shall adde any discovery of light unto them , who desire a sound judgement in the controversies here agitated , our end is obtained , and our prayers answered , who are . thy servants in and for the truth , simeon ash , william rathband . the letter of those ministers in england , who requested to know the judgement of their brethren in new england , in nine positions , wherein the reasons of this their request , are truly reported . ( reverend and beloved brethren ) whiles we lived together in the same kingdome , we professed the same faith , joyned in the same ordinances , laboured in the worke of god to gaine soules unto his kingdome , and maintained the puritie of worship against corruptions , both on the right hand and on the left . but since your departure into new england , we heare ( and partly beleeve it ) that divers have embraced certaine vain opinions , such as you disliked formerly , and we judge to be groundlesse and unwarrantable . as that a stinted forme of prayer , and set liturgie is unlawfull ; that it is not lawfull to joyne in prayer , or to receive the sacrament , where a stinted liturgie is used . 3. that the children of godly and approved christians , are not to be raptized , untill their parents bee set members of some perticular congregation . 4. that the parents themselves , though of approved piety are not to be received to the lords supper , untill they bee admitted as set members . 5. that the power of excommunication , &c. is so in the body of the church , that what the major part shall allow , that must be done , though the pastors and governors , and part of the assembly be of another minde , and peradventure , upon more substantiall reasons . 6. that none are to be admitted as set members , but they must promise , not to depart , or remove unlesse the congregation will give leave . 7. that a minister is so a minister to a particular congregation , that if they dislike him unjustly , or leave him he ceaseth to be a minister . 8. that a minister cannot performe any ministeriall act in another congregation . 9. that members of one congregation may not communicate in another . these and other such like ( which we omit to reckon up ) are written and reported to be the common tenents in new england , which are received with great applause , maintained with great confidence , and applauded , as the only church way , wherein the lord is to be worshipped . and letters from new england have so taken with divers in many parts of this kingdome , that they have left our assemblies because of a stinted liturgie , and excommunicated themselves from the lords supper , because such as are not debarred from it . and being turned aside themselves , they labour to ensnare others , to the griefe of the godly , the scandall of religion , the wounding of their owne soules ( if they did advisedly consider the matter ) and great advantage of them , that are wily to espy , and ready to make use of all advantages to prejudice the truth . ( beloved brethren ) if you stood in our places , we are well assured it would be no small griefe unto you , to heare and see the people led afide to the disgrace of the gospell , upon weake and groundlesse imaginations , and in rash and inconsiderate zeale to deale with that which is of god ▪ as if it were of man. and if it be to us griefe of heart to heare that you have changed from that truth which you did professe , and embrace that for truth which in former times upon sound grounds you did condemne as erroneous , we hope you will not be offended . you know how oft it hath beene objected , that non-conformists in practice are separatists in heart but that they goe crosse to their own positions , or smother the truth for sinister ends . they of the separation boast that they stand upon the non-conformist's grounds . a vainglorious flourish and sleight pretence . but both these are much countenanced by your sudden change if you be changed , as it is reported . how shall your brethren bee able to stand up in the defence of their innocencie and the uprightnesse of their cause , when your example and opinion shall be cast in their dish ? must they leave you now , with whom they have held society ? or will you plead for separation , which you have condemned as rash and inconsiderate ? you know that thy who have run this way have fallen into manifold divisions , and may not you justly feare , lest the same befall you ? some warnings you have had already , and have you not cause to feare every day more and more ? errour is very fruitfull and will spread apace . a cracke in the foundation may occasion a wide breach in the building , where there will not be means , or mind to amend it . experience every day may tutour us herein . but to let passe all inconveniences , our request in all meeknesse and love is , that if these , or any of the forementioned opinions be indeed your tenants you would be pleased to take a second review of your grounds , and send us your strongest reasons that have swayed you in these matters : and if we shall find them upon due examination to be such as will carry weight , we shall be ready to give you the right hand of fellowship ; if otherwise you shall receive our just and modest animadversions in what we conceive you have erred from the truth . you will not judge , if we cannot apprehend the strength of your grounds , it is because we love not the truth , or bee carryed with by-respects ( though these conceipts prevaile too much : ) such rigid and harsh censures , cannot lodge in meeke and humble breasts . weighty reasons promote the truth not unadvised judging . you your selves have judged that to be errour , which now you take to be truth when yet you were not blinded with by-respects , nor hudwinked your eyes , that you might not see the light . and if you have just warrant from god to pull downe what you have builded , and to build what you have pulled downe , we desire you would lovingly and maturely impart it ▪ for as yet we have scene none , which we are not ready to prove , and shew by the rule of truth to be too weake to carry any burthen . we adore with you the fulnesse of the scripture , and we know the counsell of the lord shall stand : if you can shew that you walke in the wayes of god , we shall heartily rejoyce to walke with you : but if you have turned aside , we shall earnestly desire that you would be pleased seriously to consider the matter , and speedily reforme , what is out of order . thus not doubting of your favourable interpretation of this our motion , for the preventing of distraction , maintenance of peace , and searching out of the truth , whereby we may be directed to live to the praise of god the good of his people , and comfort of our soules , beseeching god to lead and guide us into all truth and holinesse , and keepe us blamelesse untill his glorious appearance , we rest your loving brethren . an epistle written by the elders of the churches in new-england , to those godly ministers fore-mentioned that sent over the positions . reverend and beloved brethren : in these remote coasts of the earth , whereunto the good hand of god hath brought us , as we doe with much comfort of heart call to mind the many gracious blessings , which both with you , and from you , we injoyed in our christian and holy communion , ( the memory and fruit whereof we hope shall never be blotted out ) so we have also seen cause to looke back to our former administrations there , and to search and trie our wayes ; that wherein soever we have formerly gone astray , we might judge our selves for it before the lord : and that seeing now god hath set before us an open doore of libertie , wee might neither abuse our libertie in the gospel , to runne out into any groundlesse unwarrantable courses , nor neglect the present opportunitie to administer ( by the helpe of christ ) all the holy ordinances of god , according to the patterne set before us in the scripture ; in our native countrey , when we were first called to the ministery , many of us tooke some things to be indifferent and lawfull , which in after-times we saw to be sinfull , and durst not continue in the practise of them there ; afterwards some things that we bare as burthens , that is , as things inexpedient , though not utterly unlawfull ; we have no cause to retain and practise the same things here , which would not have been not onely inexpedient , but unlawfull : such things as a man may tollerate when he cannot remove them , hee cannot tollerate without sinne , when he may remove them ; besides some things we practised there ( which wee speak to our shame and griefe ) which we never took into serious consideration whether they were lawfull , and expedient or no , but took them for granted , and generally received ; not onely by the most reformed churches , but by the most godly and judicious servants of god amongst them ; which neverthelesse when we came to weigh them in the ballance of the sanctuarie , we could not find sufficient warrant in the word to receive them , and establish them here : of one of these three kinds will these our present practises appeare to be , which you call our new opinions , or , innovations here ; except it be some few of them , which though they have been reported to you to be our judgements and practises , yet are indeed farre from us : the partieulars are too many , and too weightie to give you account of them , and the ground of our proceedings about them in a letter . but to give you ( if it be the will of god ) the better satisfaction , we have sent you a short treatise touching each particular , that according to your desire you might understand from us how farre we do acknowledge any of these tenents , and upon what ground , hoping that according to your promise , if upon due examination you shall find any weight in them , you will give us the right hand of fellowship . but if otherwise , you will send us your just and faithfull animadversions , and we doe not suspect your loves to the truth , or your sincere speaking according to your conscience in the sight of god. neither taxe we you as siding from the truth with by-respects , whereof you complain , verily we abhorre such rash , harsh , and presumptuous notoriousnesse , we see as much cause to suspect the integritie of our own hearts , as yours ; and so much the more , as being more privie to the deceitfulnesse of our own hearts then to yours . and we cannot but with much thankfulnesse of heart acknowledge the many rich precious treasures of his grace , wherewith the lord hath furnished sandrie of you above your brethren , which causeth us with great reverence to accept , and receive what further light god may be pleased to impart unto us by you . but as we have beleeved , so have we hitherto practised , and so have most of us spoken this our answer to your particulars , most of us we may say , because there wants not some brethren amongst us who proceed further , even to looke at all set formes of prayer invented by men of another age or congregation , and prescribed to their brethren to be read out of a book for the prayers of the church , as images , or imaginations of men , forbidden in the second commandement ; but as we leave them to their libertie of their own judgements without prejudice , so do we also concurre with the rest of them , so farre as we all goe in bearing witnesse against any set formes , or the corruptions in them ; in dispatching whereof , we have been the more slow because it behoved us first to inquire into , and to settle some controversies amongst our selves , before we could well attend to entertaine discourse about forraigne questions which do not so neerely concerne our present estate and practise . besides your letters being sent to the ministers of the churches , and some of us dwelling farre asunder , it was not an easie thing for all of us often to meet together to consider of these questions , much lesse to resolve upon one just answer . but having at length ( by the assistance of god ) brought our answers to this issue , we commend it to the blessing of the lord , and in him to your christian , and judicious consideration ; where if all things bee found safe , and duely warranted from scripture grounds ; do you also as seemeth vigilant watchmen of the lords flock , and faithfull witnesses to god ; if any thing seeme doubtfull to you , consider and weigh it very well before you reject it : if any thing appeare to be unsound , and dissonant from the word ( which we for our parts cannot discerne ) we shall willingly attend to what further light god may send unto us by you : in the meane while wee intreat you in the lord , not to suffer such apprehensions to lodge in your minds , which you intimate in your letters ; as if we here justified the wayes of riged separation , which sometimes amongst you we have formerly borne witnesse against : and so build againe the things we have destroyed ; you know they separate from your congregations , as no churches ; from the ordinances dispensed by you as meere . antichristian , and from your selves as no visible christians . but wee professe unfainedly , we separate from the corruptions which we conceive to be left in your churches , and from such ordinances administred therein as we feare are not of god , but of men ; and for your selves , we are so farre from separating as from no visible christians , as that you are under god in our hearts ( if the lord would suffer it ) to live and die together ; and we looke at sundrie of you as men of that eminent growth in christianitie , that if there by any visible christians under heaven , amongst you are the men , which for these many yeeres have been written in your foreheads ( holinesse to the lord ) which we speake not to prejudice any truth which our selves are here taught and called to professe , but we still beleeve though personall christians may be eminent in their growth of christianitie : yet churches had still need to grow from apparent defects to puritie ; and from reformation to reformation , age after age , till the lord have utterly abolished antichrist with the breath of his mouth , and the brightnesse of his comming to the full and cleare revelation of all his holy truth ; especially touching the ordering of his house and publick worship ; as a pledge of this our estimation of you , and sincere affection to you , we have sent you these answers to your demand , and shall be readie , by the help of christ , to receive back againe from you , wise , and just , and holy advertisements in the lord. now the lord god , and father of our lord jesus christ , your lord and ours ; lead us all unto all truths , purge out all leaven out of his churches , and keepe us blamelesse and harmlesse in his holy faith and feare , to his heavenly kingdome , through him that hath loved us ; in whom we rest , your very loving brethren , the elders of the churches in new-england . reverend and dearely beloved brethren , it is not to be doubted but while we live here , we shall have just cause to search and try our ways , look back upon former courses , and call things done to more strict examination . for being over-clouded with ignorance , compassed about with infirmities , and beset with many temptations to sinne , knowing what we know best , but darkly and in part , no marvell , if in many things we offend ignorantly , of frailty for want of due consideration , rashly mistaking errour for truth , condemning truth for errour , suspecting evill without cause , and not suspecting where is just reason , drawing erronious conclusions from sound principles , and maintaining truths upon weak grounds ; so that in examination of our wayes , and endevours of their reformation wee had need to looke warily , that wee turn not to the right hand or to the left , for in the one we add to the word of god , as well as in the oother , and of our selves are apt to strike aside to both . a loose conscience will be profane , a tender , scrupulous . it stands us therefore upon to have our selves in suspition , in as much as experience teacheth that many have swerved from the path of sound peace and comfort on each hand . wherefore ( beloved brethren ) if since your comming into new england , upon serious review of former actions you have discovered any truths heretofore not taken notice of , we shal be so far from rejecting them because of your former judgment and practice , that we shall heartily desire to know and imbrace the same with you , and blesse god for you as the happy instruments of his glory , our instruction & the advancement of the truth . but if the discoveries be of the like nature with the positions mentioned in the letter ; as before , so still , we conceive them to be new opinions , and not warranted by scripture , which is the true antiquity . opinions we say , not practices , for not changing your opinion , you might lawfully alter your practice ; nay , what you did tolerate formerly as a burthen , in case not free , you might well forgoe being at your liberty . your judgement being the same , you might use your liberty in forbearance of a set liturgie , and yet retaine the same judgement of a stinted liturgie , that you had before ; you might forbeare for a time upon speciall reason ( such as present state and occasion might suggest ) to receive to the sacrament approved christians , not set members of a particular congregation ; as some brethren do ) who yet dare not think it unlawfull to communicate with such in the act of worship , or deem it just and right altogether to debar them , as having no right nor title to those priviledges of the church . it is your opinions whereto we had respect , not simply your practice . it never entred into us to perswade you to a set liturgy , much lesse to complain that you had not accepted ours . but that all stinted liturgies should be condemned as devised worship , and so condemned as that none may lawfully be present at , or pertake of the sacraments administred in a stinted or devised forme , this wee called a new opinion . neither do we mention it because we knew it to be the private opinion of some brethren among you , whom we had left to the liberty of their owne judgment , so far as the maintenance of the truth , and a just call did not ingage us : but because it was cryed up , and advanced with all diligence , and endeavour of some among us standing affected england-ward , as if a chief point of holinesse consisted in separation . you know how great a fire a little sparkle kindles . and seeing this distraction and rent had its originall , growth and continuance from some brethren in those parts , or affected to that way , when in loving and friendly manner we could neither receive grounds at home for our conviction , nor procure just satisfaction to the contrary ; what could wee doe lesse then call upon you joyntly to know your judgment , and either by sound proof to be by you convinced ( if happily you should approve their separation ( which we esteem groundlesse , rash , unlawfull , and prejudiciall to outward peace ) or being backed by a testimony of its dislike from you , we might the better be both incouraged , and furnished to endevour the quenching of that fire which was kindled but in too many places , in other perticulars also , wee conceive , you goe beyond commission given of god : granting them authority to whom god hath not committed it , debarring others from the priviledge of the sacraments , who have title thereto by the covenant of grace . your love in that you were pleased to signifie first your kinde and respective acceptance of our letter , and now also to send us an answer thereto , we acknowledge it with all thankfulnesse , and shall endevour ( through the grace of god ) to return like affection in truth of heart , if in measure we fall short . of your respect to us in particular , we make no question , your expressions are beyond that we could expect , as also what we dare own . but we humbly beseech the lord to direct , uphold , and guide us , that in some measure we may walk worthy of our vocation , and approv our selves faithfull to your consciences . it was one end of our writing to be satisfied in this point , whether you approve the ways of separation ( whereof wee complain ) and their courses who laboured with all their might , ( when they conceived hope to be heard ) to perswade therunto . against which ( if we knew your judgment ) you testified among us . you know they that separate are not all of one straine and temper . some deny all communion with us publick and private , some admit of private , but deny all publick , and some joyne in prayer before , and after sermon , as also preaching of the word ( because in their esteeme , this may be done without communion in a church-way ) but refuse to partake of the sacraments . all which separations wee judge uncharitable , contrary to the commandement of christ , and have ever thought that you ( whilst with us ) and we were of one minde herein . if of late we have conceived fears of some of you ( deere brethren ) as leaning too much to what formerly you disliked , we beseech you weigh what urgent and pressing reasons forced us thereunto , and we shall most gladly ( wee heartily desire you to rest assured ) lay hold of every line and syllable , that may tend to dislodge such apprehensions . for as we conceive , the dispute to be unreasonably moved , the rent offensive , the opinions themselves prejudiciall to the cause of god , and the advancers thereof to have passed the limits prescribed by god ; so wee shall esteem it an inestimable blessing , if ( now what hinders being removed ) wee might joyn with one heart and soule , in one way of god to promote his glory , and seek the good of his church and people . we trust in the lord , we should not draw back in any course wherein wee may see the lord going before us , nor be an offence to any to keep the lords way ; wee seek the truth , and are perswaded it is the cause of god which we defend : we plead for communion with the churches of christ , no further then they hold communion with christ , still desiring to keepe the unity of the spirit in the bond of peace , with your selves and all others , who walke in the right way of truth , peace and comfort . how the lord may be pleased to deale with us , or dispose of us wee know not ( his blessed will be done . ) but of this we are resolved , through his grace , not willingly to raise trouble or dissention among you , if through ignorance or infirmity we shall not so fall in , as to be of one minde with you in these matters . and here we desire you to consider that in these particulars you dissent as much one from another as we dissent from you , and that wherein we dissent from you ( and perhaps from the lesser part of you ) you dissent from the judgement and practice of all reformed churches . this wee speake not to prejudice your cause , but to intreat your serious re-examination of what you have sent us , and this tryall thereof , by the touchstone of the word . for if we mistake not , in many things it will not abide the test . you have written in great love and tendernesse , that your positions might be so scanned , and wee shall endeavour with such affection to try all things , and hold fast that which is good . and now ( beseeching the guidance of the spirit ) with your leave , wee shall endeavour to deale fully and plainly , as the nature of the cause requireth , intreating you impartially to consider the grounds whereupon we , go and weigh what wee shall say in the ballance of the sanctuary . the lord of his rich mercy in jesus christ , direct us in discerning what is right and pleasing in his sight , cast offences out of the church , close up rents and divisions , reveal his truth more and more , set up and mayntain the purity of his own ordinances , unite the hearts of his people to the love and feare of his holy name , teach us self-deniall , and keep us blamelesse to the comming of the lord jesus christ . amen . i position . that a stinted forme of prayer and set liturgie is unlawfull . answ . before we proceed to declare our selves concerning this position : it will be needfull that some thing be premised , for the explication of the terms thereof . we suppose , 1 by a liturgy and forme of prayer , you mean not a forme of private prayers composed for the helpe and direction of weaker christians : but the system or body of publike prayers generally used in the english parishes , compiled for the churches use by other men not infallibly guided by god , to be said or read out of a book by their ministers as the churches prayers . and that this is your meaning , may appeare from your letter it self , wherein you complain that divers in many parts of that kingdome have left their assemblies , because of a stinted liturgy . now we know not of any other stinted liturgy from which the people do absent themselves , but onely that which is in use in the english churches . for as for a forme of prayer in generall , wee conceive your meaning cannot be of that . for it is evident that many preachers constantly use one set form of prayer of their own making before their sermons , with whom the people refuse not to joyn . 2 by stinted and set , you mean such prayers , as are so imposed upon the churches and ministers , as that they are limited to that very form of words expressed in the book without addition , diminution , or alteration ; for that liturgy and forme among you , is in this sense set and stinted . 3 by unlawfull , you mean that we looking at that form , as swerving from the rule ; neither dare first practice it our selves , nor secondly approve the use of it by others . this being the true state of the question , so far as it appears to us , from the letter . we answer , 1 for our own practice , the churches here doe not use any stinted forme of prayer and set liturgy , for these and other such reasons . 1 because we finde no necessity of any stinted liturgy to be used among us , by vertue of any divine precept . and seeing the commission of the apostles limited them , to ●each men to observe and do onely what christ did command them in matters of this nature , math. 28. 20. who are we and what are our churches , that we should presume above this commission ? and , we hope , it will not be offensively taken by any godly brethren , that we stand fast in the liberty wherewith christ hath made us free in this , as well as in all other things . secondly , because the lawfulnesse of set forms and stinted liturgies is questioned and doubted of by many faithfull servants of god : whereas for church-officers to edifie the churches by their own gifts , as well in praying as in preaching , all sorts without controversie grant it to be lawfull . now spirituall prudence guideth believers , when two ways are set before them , one doubtfull though ventured on by some , the other certainly safe and good , though neglected by many , to choose that which is safe , declining the other . thirdly , because primitive paterns of all the churches of god in their best times ( when as touching this point they kept the rule in their eye ) whether jewish before christ , or christian above a 100 yeers after christ , yield not the least footstep to shew us another safe way to walk in , then this which we have chosen . as for after times towards the end of the second , and beginning of the third century , we know how far the churches were then degenerated and declined from the first purity ; neither do we marvell at it , seeing in the apostles time the mystery of iniquity began to work , and it was then foretold , that the power of godlinesse would be in aftertimes exchanged for empty formes . in which respect , we look not at them as our guides neither in this , nor other particulars not warranted by the rule , herein following the advise of cyprian , who himself saw the corruption of those times , non est attendendum quid aliquis ante nos faciendum putaverit , sed quid qui ante omnes est christus fecerit & faciendum praeceperit . to conclude , seeing our christian liberty freeth us from binding our selves to any religious observances , whereunto the written word doth not bind us . and seeing spirituall prudence directs us to choose those ways , which on all hands are confessed to be s●fe , avoiding those that be doubtfull and hazardous . and seeing it will not be safe for us , needlesly to swerve from the constant practice of all churches that are recorded in scripture , and there held forth as a cloud of witnesses for us to follow in matters of this nature , wee therefore may not , doe not , dare not use set forms of prayers and stinted liturgies in these churches . more particularly , in that we doe not use that forme of prayer and stinted liturgy , which is in use among your selves : these and such other like reasons have induced us thereunto . 1 the many and just exceptions whereunto that liturgy is lyable both for matter and manner ; for the proofe whereof wee referre you to those faithfull servants of god , who have gone before us in witnessing against the same : amongst others to master cartwright , and the abridgment . 2 in as much as that liturgy was never commanded of god , and hath been greatly abused to idolatry and superstition , and is not of any necessary use , and therefore we are affraid to bring it into the worship of god , as knowing the jealousie of the lord , in matters of this nature ; exod. 20 , and how strictly hee commandeth his people , that all monuments and remnants of idolatry and superstition should be abolished from among them , deut. 5. 25 , 26. exod. 23. 13. esay 30. 2● . 2 cor. 6. 17. in which respect the holy ghost hath greatly commended iacob , david , iehu hezechia and iosiah for taking away the remembrance of such things , gen. 35. 2 , 4. psal . 16. 4. 2 king 10. 26 , 27. & 18. 4. & 2● . all the chapter . and where other kings of iudah came short of the like zeale , the scripture notes it as a blemish in them that the high places were not taken away , albeit the people did not sacrifice in them to false gods , but onely to the lord , 2 chron. 15. 17. & 20. 33. & 33. 17. yea , moreover , it appeareth by the scripture , that somethings that had a good originall and use ( if they be not still necessary and commanded of god ) are unlawfull when once they are knowne to be defiled by idolatry , and abused to it , 2 king. 18. 4. hos . 2. 16 , 17. as the brazen serpent was at the first an institution though but temporary : but when the children of israel burned incense to it , hezechiah , is commended for breaking it in pieces , and the lord witnesseth of him that he did that which was right in the sight of the lord , and according to his commandement , which he commanded moses , 2 king. 18. 3 , 6. how much more in the like case ought other things to be removed , which never were commanded of god , but onely were devised by men ? and that that liturgy hath been superstitiously abused , may be cleer to any that shall consider that it is the same for substance that was used in the days of popery . and therefore when the papists in devonshire and cornwall , had made a commotion and rebellion upon the change of religion , in the days of king edward the sixth . it was told them by the king , for the pacifying of them : that it was the self-same service in english , which had been before in latine : and if the service of the church was good in latine , it remayneth good in english , for nothing is altered : fox acts and monuments , edward 6. and pope pius the fifth did see so little variation in it from the latine service , that had been formerly used in that kingdome , that he would have ratified it by his authority , if q. elizabeth would have so received it . and many of the people put such holinesse in it , that they think god is not rightly worshipped , nor his sabbath well observed , nor the sacraments sufficiently administred , if there be no reading of that service . and others put such holinesse and necessity in it , that they preferre it before gods holy ordinance of preaching the word . in so much as the ministers are in the danger of being called in question , and of being censured , if they doe not read that liturgy every lords day without omitting any part thereof , either in respect of preaching or otherwise . 3 in regard of the many wofull scandals , and dangerous consequences of using that liturgie , of which we suppose you are not ignorant . to mention but two , viz. the hardning of papists who are imboldned to think better of their own breviaries , masse-books , portuisses , seeing that liturgie hath bin extracted out of those books , and rather fetched from them then from the forms used in any of the reformed churches . 2 the conntenancing and establishing of an unlearned idol ministery , of not-preaching curates , non-residents , pluralities , &c. in whose skirts is to be found the blood of so many mens souls living and dying in their sins , while they ignorantly content themselves with , and harden themselves in some empty forms of religion and blinde devotion , which are begotten and cherished chiefely by such prayers and ministers . neither is there lesse scandall hereby ( we meane not onely taken but given ) then by the eating of an idolathite , in the idols temple condemned by the apostle 1 cor. 8. 7 10. for if the eating of an idolathite by him that had knowledge , and knew that an idol was nothing , and that all meats were lawfull , did imbolden others to honour the idol , and therefore was a scandall given , so also it is in this case . 4 seeing that booke is so imposed as that the minister in reading of it , is limited to the very words set downe without any diminution , addition , or alteration ; therefore we dare not use it . for 1 the lord himselfe hath not limited his people to his own formes and therefore we see not , how it can be lawfull to be limited to other mens formes ; for in thus doing we should subject our selves to the exercise of such an authority and power of the prelates , as in this case puts forth a stronger act of limiting power then christ himselfe , who doth not limit us to those formes , which himselfe hath set downe in scripture : for though we acknowledge the lords prayer and other formes set down in scripture , may be lawfully used as prayers ( due cautions being observed ) yet there is not a limitation lying upon the churches in the use of those prayers . and therefore we do not find that the apostles ever used that form taught by christ in those very words , much lesse limited themselvs to it , when they prayed , nor did they teach the churches so to doe . 2 if the lord would not have us limit our selves in our own forms , whiles we are exercising our own gifts ( which he hath specially sanctified to edify his church act. 6. 4. eph. 4. 8. 1 cor. 12. 7. ) least we should quench or at least straiten his spirit in prayer , 1 thes . 5. 19. would he then have us limited to other mens forms , which have not beene in like sort sanctified of god , but will rather quench or straiten the spirit of god , whiles we are so limited to them ? 3 the entertainment of this form hath been a manifest snare unto the churches who upon the same ground on which they have received this forme into the desks have beene limited to others in the pulpit , by meanes whereof the poore church of christ hath bin wholly deprived of the publike use of the ministers gifts in prayer , and the spirit of prayer in the ministers in publike , hath beene greatly restrained . as for our judgement concerning the practice of others , who use this liturgie in our native countrie , we have alwayes beene unwilling to expresse our mindes there against unlesse we have been necessarily called thereunto , and at this time we thinke it not expedient to expresse our selves any further concerning this matter , as loath to intermeddle with the affaires of other churches , but contenting our selves with , and blessing the lord for those liberties which we , by the mercie of god , do here enjoy , reserving also due reverence to the judgements of our beloved brethren and deere countreymen , who may concerning this matter be otherwise minded . reply . this position cannot beare that meaning which you give it , if you take it according , o our mindes , and the plain construction of the words . we never questioned why you made not use of a stinted liturgy , much lesse why you did not wholly and in every part tye your selves unto , and approve of that forme in use amongst us . you might well thinke we had little to doe to put forth such a demand , viz. whether you thinke it lawfull to approve in others and practice your selves , what swerveth from the rule , and we thinke it strange you should give our words such a meaning . the thing we craved resolution in was , whether in your judgements all stinted and set formes of prayer and liturgies be unlawfull . the reason hereof was because in writings from new-england , we had seene all set liturgies , and set formes of prayer condemned as devised worship which god would not accept , and partaking in the sacraments of the supper in our assemblies , therefore disallowed , because administred in a stinted liturgie , which things were received with such likeing among some brethren with us , and by them imparted and recommended to others , that they occasioned that rent and distraction whereof we complain . it is true , the people among us separate from our forme of prayer or liturgy , but the reason hereof is because it is stinted , not because this or that or ours in particular . you confesse you want not some brethren among you who look at all set formes of prayer invented by one of another age or congregation , and prescribed to their brethren , to be read out of a booke for the prayers of the church , as images and imaginations of man forbidden in the second commandement , and that the lawfulnesse of liturgies , and set formes is questioned and doubted of by many faithfull servants of god , such also as come over occasionally , who withdraw themselvs from the sacraments in the congregation , doe it on this pretence , that a stinted liturgie is a humane invention . and if we examine the reasons brought against stinted formes and liturgies , we shall finde them to strike at all formes and liturgies though devised by men of the same age and congregation , and to be used but now and then , or but once on set purpose , and that either in publike or in private , as elsewhere we may have occasion to shew . you say it is evident , many preachers constantly use a set forme of prayer of their own making before their sermons with whom the people refuse not to joyne ; and you know ( we doubt not ) that such set formes are disliked also . and if the grounds be examined ( in our understanding ) they make as much against the one as the other . view but the reasons why you admit not a stinted liturgie and forme of prayer , and see whether the two last will not in the same terms directly conclude gainst both . but what ever is to be thought herein , or whether mens practises agree with their opinions we now dispute not . this is plaine and manifest , that mens opinions are to be judged by their expresse words and reasons , not by their practises . the brownists ( as they are commonly called ) can separate from no stinted liturgie amongst us , but that which is in use , and for ought we know they may joyne with their owne pastors , though they oft use the same forme of prayer in whole or in part , in thanksgiving before meat , or in prayer before sermon , or the like . and yet their opinion is that all stinted liturgies and set formes of prayer be unlawfull , humane inventions forbidden by the second commandement . but if any thing had beene left doubtfull in the letter , that it might be strained to another sence , either because we were short in expression , or many of you not informed in the passages which gave occasion to the question , it is well knowne what the words meane in ordinary construction . and we doubt not but many brethren among you , might and could fully informe you of our meaning that there need no such straining to find it out . that which followeth in your answer to the position ( as you interpret it ) wee passe over , because it is not to the matter intended . and wee are as unwilling to trouble you with the affaires of other churches taking you from your owne weightie occasions , as you are unwilling to be interrupted . onely in regard of promise , and because plaine dealing serves to maintaine love , we thinke good to advertise you these few things . 1 that your reasons why you accept not of a stinted lyturgie be ambiguously propounded , for sometimes you plead onely for your libertie herein , and that a stinted forme is not necessary , and sometime you speake so , as they that looke at stinted lyturgies , as images forbidden in the second commandement will easily draw your words to their meaning . 2 the reasons you bring against a set forme of prayer or liturgie doe hold as strong against a set forme of catechisme confession and profession of faith , blessing , baptizing and singing of psalmes . 3 wee have not called upon you at this time to witnesse for , or against the corruptions in the communion-booke . this you fall upon by straining the sense of our demands contrary to the true meaning thereof . the reasons which you bring against it , we cannot approve them all ; the exceptions which have bin taken both from the matter and manner thereof we know : but to esteeme the whole for some corruptions found therein , a monument of idolatry , that we have not learned . the argument in the abridgement which is used against conformity to the ceremonies did not in their judgement who were authors of the booke hold against the lyturgie , of which opinion we are also . 4 if these reasons be intended onely to shew why you receive not our forme of administration , it is that which ( we are perswaded you know ) we never required of you . if to disallow the use of the booke amongst us altogether in things lawfull , good and pertinent , they will not hold weight . 5 you are generally ( as you say ) loath to meddle with the affaires of other churches , unlesse you have been necessarily called thereunto . but when some upon the request ( as we suppose ) of private friends , and others out of their zeale and forwardnesse have laboured to draw many to separation from the sacrament , because ministred in a stinted lyturgie : wee cannot apprehend any just ground of this apologie . the rent is wide , and some brethren had their hands deepe therein , which made us at this present to crave your judgements , and the reasons thereof to make up the breach . 6 i. d. objecteth to master p. that his manner of preaching was disorderly in carrying that matter , he speakes of , to the classes , before he had declared to the church the equity of his refusing the ministers desired by the scriptures . and may not we with like reason object , that this manner of proceeding is disorderly in seeking to draw men to separation , because of stinted liturgie , before you had shewed to us or other brethren ( whom it may concerne ) by scripture , or reasons drawne from thence , that a stinted liturgie was unlawfull ? but of this wee may intreat more fully elsewhere . ii. position . that it is not lawfull to joyne in prayer , or receive the sacraments where a stinted liturgie is used , or as we conceive your meaning to be in this , as in the former question viz. where , and when that stinted liturgie is used . answer . it seemeth by this your letter , the ground of this position hath beene the separation of divers from your assemblies , because of a stinted liturgie : and we are not ignorant of the rigid separation of divers people , who withdraw themselves from an able faithfull ministry , as no ministry of christ , and from their godly congregations as no churches of christ ; because of some corruptions from which ( through want of light , not love of the truth ) they are not throughly cleansed . against which practise we have ever witnessed . as for our judgement concerning the position it selfe , we would promise two things ; first concerning the persons reading this liturgie , which may be either an ungodly or unable minister , or an able and a godly . secondly , concerning the liturgie it selfe , which may be either of the whole or some select prayers , which may be conceived to be the least offensive . now if the question be of joyning in prayer with , and when that whole liturgie is used , or where that which is used , is read by an unable and ungodly minister , we then see not how it can be lawfull to joyne in prayer in such cases ; for 1 the prayers of the minister are not his private prayers , but the publike prayers of the whole assembly , whose mouth he is to god. and when the prayers offered up by the minister , as a living holy , and acceptable service to god , are not through humane frailty , but otherwise for matter and manner corrupt , wee see not what warrant any one hath to joyne with such prayers , mal. 1. 13. 14. 2 when men ioyne therein with an insufficient ministry , they doe not only countenance them in their place and office , whom the lord hath rejected from being his priests . hos . 4. 6. but also set up those idolls and means of worship to edifie themselves by , which god never appointed in his holy word ezeck . 11. 17. but if the question be of joyning in some few select prayers read by an able and painfull minister out of that booke as on the one side wee are very tender of imputing sin to the men that so joyne : so on the other side , we are not without feare , least that such joyning may be found to be unlawfull : unlesse it may appeare that the ministers with whom the people have communion in reading those prayers doe neither give any scandall by reading of them nor give unlawfull honour to a thing abused to idolatry , and superstition , nor doe suffer themselves to be sinfully limited in the reading of them . reply . sufficient hath been spoken of the meaning of the position and the grounds thereof and if we have not mistaken your judgment & practice both , you have born witnesse against both that you call the rigid seperation , and this more moderate also ; and we humbly wish , the moderate doe not degenerate into the rigid ere long . it is very strange , if they take not great incouragement upon your grounds . the truth of our ministery , churches , ordinances , and calling is questioned , and where men will stay the lord knoweth , and what more common then that our liturgie is unlawfull , because it is the devise of man ; the author ( or publisher at least ) of a letter against our service booke beginneth with such like distinction . against this prayer-booke ( saith he ) divers have pleaded in a different manner . first some arguments are proper to the separatists qua tales , viz. that it is offered in a false church ; 2. by a false minister ; 3. in the behalfe of the subjects of the kingdome of antichrist . these are properly theirs , being the grounds whereupon they make a totall separation from all the churches in this land , as no churches of christ . these i approve not , yet note them that yee may see upon what different grounds , the same position is maintained by severall persons , and that yee may be delivered from the prejudice , which hinders many from receiving those truths , because they feare the reproach of brownisme . secondly , there are other grounds which are common to all that plead for the the puritie of christs ordinances , and which doe not necessarily inferre such separation , but only serve to shew the unlawfulnesse of that practise , and our communicating therein . thus the epistle wherein the same distinction of separation is noted : but how truly , let the indifferent judge . if none must be counted separatists , but such as have pleaded against the booke of common prayer as unlawfull , because offered up in a false church , &c. then are there none such in the world , that we have knowne or heard of : for it is apparent they cast us off as no churches of christ , because our service is a humane devise , will-worship , idolatry ; and not on the contrary , that our service is will-worship , or idolatry , because our churches are false churches . against all communion with us they plead , because we are a false church , but against our stinted liturgie they argue not in that manner . the grounds on which that authour builds ( which he saith are common to all , that plead for the purity of gods ordinances ) are one and the same with the grounds of the separatists , shafts taken out of the same quiver and peculiar to them , some few brethren onely excepted , who of late have looked towards that opinion . see how affection will transport . those reasons shall be common to all that plead for the purity of christs ordinances , which were never taken to be sound and true , either by the reformed churches abroad , or by the godly brethren at home , whether now at rest with the lord , or for the present living , or yet by the most of the brethren among whom they live , and with whom they hold societie , or by any minister or societie which did hold the unitie of the spirit in the bond of peace for the space of this 1400 yeares and upwards , by your owne confession , unlesse within these few dayes , and that by a few onely . if this be not to strengthen the hands of the separatists , or at least , to lay blocks of offence in their way , what is ? as yet we thinke most of them that have separated , are not so farre gone , as to condemne all our assemblies as no churches of christ , but we judge they have proceeded further then christ the lord and saviour of his church hath given them commission or allowance , that the grounds whereon they build are unsound , and such as make way for further danger , if the lord prevent not . and that the reasons mentioned in the letters are the proper grounds of separatists , and not common to all them that seeke the purity of religion , for they are not approved by your selves : and if all this tend not to turne them who halt , out of the right way , wee heartily intreate you to consider . your judgement concerning the position , you deliver in three propositions ( for so many they be for substance ) in respect of the persons reading the liturgie , or the thing it selfe that is read . as if any part of the liturgie bee read , ( put case some few selected prayers onely , by an unable and ungodly minister : it is unlawfull ( say you ) for the people to joyne in that case . but if it be unlawfull for the people to joyne , when an ungodly minister readeth some few select prayers , it is either in respect of the minister , or the prayers themselves . not of the prayers themselves , for they be select and choyce , faultlesse both in respect of matter and manner , as it is taken for granted , unlesse this distribution be to no purpose ; if in respect of the minister , then it is not lawfull to joyne with such a one in any ordinance of god whatsoever . for if the minister make it unlawfull , then all communion in any part of gods worship , with such ministers is unlawfull , and so the church in all ages of the world , the prophets , our saviour christ , the apostles , and the faithfull in the primitive churches sinned , in holding communion with such , when the priests were dumbe dogges that could not barke , and greedy dogges that could never have enough ; when the prophets prophesied lies , and the priests bare rule by their meanes ; when the priests bought and sold doves in the temple , and tooke upon them to provide such things for them that were to offer ; when the pharisees corrupted the law by false glosses , taught for doctrines mens precepts , made the commandements of god of none effect through their traditions , under pretence of long prayer devoured widowes houses , taught the law , but practised it not ; when they were such , and did such things , they were ungodly ministers ; but we never find that the prophets , our saviour , the apostles , did either forbeare themselves , or warne the faithfull not to communicate with such in the ordinance of worship . we reade our saviour charged his disciples , to beware of the leaven of the scribes and pharisees , to let them alone , because they were the blind leaders of the blind , but he never forbade to communicate with them in the ordinances of god. it is not then for private christians to withdraw themselves from the ordinance of worship , and communion of the church , because such are permitted to deale in the holy things of god , whom they judge or know unfit : when men joyne in the worship of god with unworthy ministers , they doe not countenance them in their place and office , but obey the commandement of god , who requires their attendance upon his highnesse in that way and meanes . to goe no further then the text you quote , because thou hast despised knowledge , i will also reject thee , &c. properly the text is spoken of the ten tribes called israel , and the priests among them who worshipped the calves which ieroboam had set up , whom the lord threatneth to reject , because they had rejected knowledge being either wilfully ignorant , or withholding the truth in unrighteousnesse . whether they were for the present absolutely rejected , or the lord threatens only to reject them we will not dispute . this may suffice that it is not to be found either in this or any other text of scripture , that the people joyning in the true worship of god , with unworthy ministers , do countenance them in their place thereby . on the contrary , if you will extend this text to all unworthy ministers of what sort soever , whom the word of truth doth condemne as not approved ministers of god , the scripture teacheth evidently not onely that the people by joyning do not countenance them in their place and office , but that they must and ought to joyne with them in the worship of god , and in separating from the ordinance they shall sinne against god , much lesse then do they in such joyning set those idols and meanes of worship , which god never appointed in his word . for the worship is of god , and the ministery is of god , the person unworthily executing his place , is neither set up by some few private christians , nor can by them be removed . and warrant to withdraw themselves from the worship of god , because such as ought not , are suffered to entermeddle in the holy things of god , they have none from god. dumbe dogs , greedy dogs , idol-sheepheards , false prophets , strangers , are unworthy ministers , but they that communicate with such in the ordinance of worship , are never said to set up idols or means of worship which god never appointed . the sheep of christ will not heare strangers in the lords sense , but outwardly they heard those strangers preach ( if the scribes and pharisees were such ) and by hearing them discovered them to be strangers , i. e. false prophets ; some strangers at least , of whom our saviour speaks , were of the true church , and of israel , but brought false doctrine tending to kill the soule , such strangers none should heare , that is , believe and follow : but as they be tolerated in the church , so they may hear them , so long as they bring the truth . unworthy ministers are no ministers for themselves , but they are ministers for the people of god , that is , so long as they be in the place of ministers , the acts of their administrations are of force to the faithfull , if they observe the forme of administration prescribed by christ ; for christs ordinances have their efficacy from him , not from them that serve about them , and evill ministers minister not in their own name , but in christs and by his commission . it hath evermore bin held for a truth in the church of god , that although somtimes the evill have chiefe authority in the ministration of the word and sacraments , yet for as much as they doe not the same in their own name but in christs , and minister by his commission and authority , wee may use their ministery both in hearing the word , and receiving the sacraments ; neither is the effect of christs ordinance taken away , by their wickednesse , nor the grace of gods gifts diminished from such as by faith , and rightly doe receive the sacraments administred to them which are effectuall ; because of christs institution and promise , although they be ministred by evill men . beza de presbyt . et excōmunicat . p. 25 26. ista vero , quia nonnulli à sacris caetib . & sacrament . usu propter aliorum vitia ultro abstinent i. e. seipsos excommunicant magnam reprehensionem merentur . the reasons whereby the ancient churches condemned the donatists and catharists for their voluntary and seditious separation and the moderne churches condemne the anabaptists for their unwarrantable departure from , and so renting of the body of christ , will hold against separation from the prayers of the congregation , because they are read by an ungodly minister . the second proposition . where the whole liturgie is used , though by an able and godly minister , it is not lawfull to joyne in prayer in that case . herein wee cannot be of your judgement ; for in the times of the prophets , and our saviour christ , as great abuses , no question , were found in the church of the jews in the administration of holy things of god as can be imagined in our liturgie or forme of prayer : but the prophets and our saviour who taught the people to keepe themselves pure and undefiled , never taught them to separate from the administration of the holy things of god. and if the presence at our forms of prayer be not lawful by reason of the corruptions alleaged , there can be no visible society named throughout the world since 200. yeeres after christ or thereabouts , wherein a christian might lawfully joyne in prayer , reading the scripture , hearing the word or participation of the sacraments . for compare the doctrines , prayers , rites at those times in use in the churches with ours , and in all these , ( blessed be the name of the lord ) wee are more pure then they . but no man will be so bold ( we hope ) as to affirme the state of the churches within 200. yeeres after christ , to be so miserably decayed that the faithfull could not without sin hold communion with them in the aforesaid ordinances . the prayers of the minister , whether conceived or stinted in a set forme , be not his private prayers , but the publike prayers of the whole assembly , whose mouth he is to god both in the one and the other . but you will not say , the people ought not to joyne with their pastor in the publique assembly , if ought bee amisse in his prayer for matter , or manner , or both . it is all one to the people in this case , whether the fault be personall ( as some distinguish ) or otherwise knowne beforehand or not knowne : for if simple presence defile , whether it was knowne beforehand or not , all presence is faulty . and if simple presence defile not , our presence is not condemned , by reason of the corruptions knowne , whereof we stand not guilty , whether the corruption be through humane frailty or not , it is not in us to enquire , but rather whether we be called to come , and the faults such as one christian cannot or must not tolerate in another without breach of charity . for if the errour be such as may be tolerated , and i am called to be present ; by such fault i am not defiled though knowne before . if the error be such as in conscience may not be tolerated , though not knowne before hand , i am bound , if present some way to professe against it . this distinction of personall and ministeriall faults in this case untill it be cleared by some text of scripture or sound reason from the word , must goe for the devise of man. a church , a minister , or a christian may be stiffe in an error ( being misperswaded it is a truth ) after many meanes long used to convince them , with whom yet we must hold communion in the ordinances of religion : and the error may be such as we cannot without hypocrisy or denyall of the truth hold communion , though such meanes of conviction have not gone before . but the corruptions alleadged against our forme of prayer for matter or manner , are such as one christian may and must tolerate in another where he hath no power to redresse them . hath not christian wisdome and experience of humane frailties lessoned you ( deere brethren ) to beare one with another in matters of greater consequence then any have or can be objected truly against the form of prayer in use among us ? and why such corruptions should not be ascribed to humane frailty ; we see not : for if a godly minister make use of a book in things which he judgeth lawfull for matter and manner , the corruption in him that useth it according to his judgement , from what cause can it spring but humane ignorance and frailty ? we rest assured you question not the integrity of many , who make much more use of the booke then onely in a few select prayers . from the bottome of our hearts we desire and pray that god would remove out of his church and worship whatsoever offendeth for matter or manner , and that all things may be so done , not onely that they may be tolerated but that they might be approved in the conscience of all men . but we are perswaded that not onely some few select prayers but many prayers & other exhortations may lawfully be used , with fruit and edification to gods people . to aggravate faults especially when it tends to draw away people from the ordinances of god , is no lesse fault then to excuse them , it may be greater , and therefore we dare not esteeme the prayers read by a godly and faithfull minister according to the booke in use among us , a corrupt sacrifice whether in such as read them , or them that be present . in them that join according to christs command ( and liberty of absence from christ hath not beene shewed ) notwithstanding the corruptions , we hold the prayers to be an holy and acceptable sacrifice to god , and pleasing to jesus christ . the corrupt sacrifice is that , which the deceiver bringeth voluntarily , and out of neglect , having a male in his flock : but the faithfull bringeth himself and his godly desires according to the will of god , and as for corruptions , whether respecting matter or forme , they are none of his , they cleave not to his sacrifice to staine or pollute it . as for the text of the prophet mal. 1. 13 , 14. it is cited by many in this businesse , and to many purposes applyed , but we cannot finde that in the prophet for which it is here brought , the deceiver is accursed that offereth a corrupt thing to the lord. this we reade and beleeve , but that a godly man , being present at this forme of prayer among us , read by a godly and faithfull minister , is the deceiver , who offereth a corrupt thing unto the lord , that is not proved . no argument can be brought from this place to the purpose , but by analogy , which is a kinde of arguing of all other most ready at hand , but lyable to most exceptions , and apt to draw aside , if great care be not had , ( which in this place we finde not ) to take the proportion in every materiall point just and right . and we desire such as alleadge this passage of scripture against simple presence at the prayers of our liturgy , advisedly to consider whether god allow them to make such application of his truth which wee much doubt of , to say no more . your third proposition . that as you are very tender of imputing sinne to those men that joyne in some select prayers read by an able and godly minister : so on the other side you are not without feare , least such joyning may be found unlawfull , unlesse it may appeare that the ministers with whom the people have communion in reading those prayers , neither give any scandall by reading them , nor give unlawfull honour to a thing abused to idolatry and superstition , nor doe suffer themselves to be sinfully limited in the reading of them . 1 we cannot conceive how you should imagine the practice of a godly minister in reading some few select prayers to be scandalous or offensive in their congregations when the people generally , not in their assemblies onely , but throughout the whole land , were perswaded of the lawfulnesse of that course till now of late some have beene drawne away to separate , who yet by warrant of scripture produce nothing of weight to countenance that practice . 2 if the booke should be as you take it an idolathite , latent offence doth not oblige . if any man say unto thee , this is sacrificed to idols , eat it not , so that if it doe not manifestly appeare that this practice is scandalous ; it is not lawfull for the people to withdraw themselves . 3 the book ( we speake of the liturgie so far as it is sound and good ) by your confession is no idolathite , neither was it taken out of the masse-book in such sense as you object , but rather the masse & other idolatrous prayers were added to it , for popery is as a scab or leprosie cleaving to the church , and many truths belonging to the church as her proper legacie were stollen and heaped together in that denne . and why the true man may not challenge his goods where ever he finds thē , or the thiefe plead title to the true mans goods by prescription , we know not ? it is no hard taske to shew that our service-booke was reformed in most things according to the purest liturgies which were in use in the church long before the masse was heard of in the world . and if that could not be shewed , yet formes of speech generally taken ( we speak not of this or that speciall word or phrase ) is no more defiled by idolatry then the light aire , or place where idolatry is committed . it is not unlawfull to pray , lord helpe , or lord have mercy , or to give thankes , praised bee god , because the papists say , lady helpe , or , praised be god and the virgin mary . fourthly , put case the minister in reading such prayers gives offence , or attributes unlawfull honour to a thing abused to idolatry and superstition , or suffer himselfe to be sinfully limited in the reading of them , what is that to the faithfull ? this can be no just ground of the people 's not joyning with them in the worship of god , for that offence is personall onely , and not the sin of them that be present , they joyn in prayer onely , and not in his reading or limiting himself . not to say that every particular person must be herein both accuser and judge . if he give offence must they stumble at the stone , and separate from the ordinance of grace ? wee should rather think it is their duty to look unto their feet , that they goe not awry . let it be shewed out of the word of god , that either the minister is guilty of giving unlawfull honour , or that the people may lawfully withdraw themselves in case he should do so , and we will then say as you do , but untill that be proved , ( being pressed and called to proffer our judgements ) we believe that separation is scandalous and sinfull , never taught of god , nor confirmed by the approved example of the godly in any age or time of the church : yea , against the positive law of god , injurious to the churches distracting christians , bringing contempt upon the ordinances of god , and defrauding believers of the spirituall food of their souls , which is indeed to infringe their christian liberty , and what ever may be thought of it now , in former times it hath been accounted no small offence . fiftly , if this and such like scruples make it unlawfull to joyn in the ordenance of worship , we must hold communion with no society under heaven . for may not the brethren which hold all stinted liturgies , and set forms unlawfull say with like strength of reason , it is unlawfull to joyn in conceived prayer with others , if either they give too little honour to it , as deeming the other lawfull , or sinfully limiting , or suffering themselves to be limited to one stinted forme , though conceived at first by them selves ? and may not the brethren who hold a stinted forme lawfull in like manner object ? it is unlawfull to joyn in prayer with them because they attribute too much honour to conceived prayer , as making their device and method the worship of god ? and may not the brethren which hold it lawfull to use some selected prayers according to the forms among us , upon the same grounds condemne communion with both sorts ? and all of them one with another , because they either limit themselves too much , or too little ? you say in the exposition of the first position , many preachers constantly use a set form of prayer of their own making before their sermons , must you not say upon this ground , that it is unlawfull to joyn with them , because they sinfully stint themselves ? in probability a christian may presume , that in the publike worship of god , there will be through humane ignorance & infirmity somwhat amiss for matter , or manner , or both , & that upon this ground , he must joyn with no society in any part of gods worshipat all . the advancing of every small difference to this height , is that which will bring all to confusion , if men walk uniforme to their own principles . it is well observed by master i. da. that unlesse men will yield so much favour each to other in some difference of opinions , a dissolving not onely of churches , but of humane societies also must necessarily follow , & not onely not two ministers , but not two men should live together , which were to put off even humanity it selfe . sixtly , wee have credibly heard that you hold fellowship with professed , rigid separatists without any acknowledgment of their errour , and receive them as members , or communicate with them in the priviledges of the church , though you professe you approve not their opinion or practice . and if in godly wisdome , you can see grounds to joyn with them , we marvell you should be so timorous in this particular . seventhly , if you judge the practice of such godly ministers , scandalous to them that separate from the ordinance , because it is not administred in this , or that but in a stinted form . it is a scandall taken , and not given ; and by forbearing , if to confirme men in errour , be to scandalize them , they should offend them the more : yea , they should prejudice the truth , and it might be an occasion to beget needlesse scruples in others , and draw them ignorantly from the fellowship of the saints in the holy ordinances of god , and strengthen them who by your owne confession , are run too far into schisme already . iii position . that the children of godly and approved christians , are not to be baptized untill their parents be set members of some particular congregation iv position . that the parents themselves , though of approved piety , are not to be received to the lords supper , untill they be admitted as set members . answ . these two positions may be maintained with one and the same defence , being somewhat coincident , and therfore we joyn them as if they were but one . therefore to prevent all mistakes , it may please you to take notice that we are not of their judgement who refuse all religious communion with such as are not church members , nor doe wee appropriate communion in this priviledge of the seals only to the members of our own churches , excluding all other churches of christ from the same , though they may be through errour or humane frailty defective in some matters of order , provided that the liberty of our churches be preserved , of receiving such satisfaction as is meet ( as well by letters of recommendation , or otherwise if it be requisite ) concerning those whom wee admit unto fellowship in the seals . for as we account it our duty to keepe the unity of spirit inviolate with any , in whom we discerne any fruits of the spirit , so we hold our selves bound to discharge this duty , according to order . spirituall cōmunion in prayers , holy conferences & other religious actions of like nature we maintain with al godly persons , though they be not in church order : but church communion we hold onely with church members admitting to fellowship of the seals the known and approved , & orderly recommended members of any true church . but into fellowship of the censures , admittance of members and choice of officers , onely the members of that particular church whereof they and we ( any of us ) stand members . these things being premised , the considerations whereupon our judgement and practice is swayed for administration of the seals onely to such as are in order of a true visible church are these that follow . reply . vvhat is here premised to prevent all mistakes , doth seem more to raise then to abate scruples if we mistake not your meaning . you refuse not all religious communion with all that are not church members , and so much they professe , who formerly have gone for , and professed themselves separatists from our assemblies . you do not appropriate this priviledge of the seals onely to the members of your own churches , excluding all other churches of christ from the same ; if your meaning be onely this , that you deny not the sacraments administred in other churches to be the true sacraments of christ for substance , then you ascribe little more to the churches of christ in this , then to the synagogue of satan , the church of rome . for you will not deny baptisme administred among them to be true for substance : if you deny not to have fellowship with them in the scals , and to admit them to the sacrament , and to communicate with them : then either your judgment is contrary to your practice , or you exclude the churches of england from the number of true visible churches of christ , which is to destroy what you formerly builded , and here professe . all possible care to keep the ordinances of god from contempt , we allow and commend , provided you go not beyond the lords warrant , and deny not the priviledges of the church to them , to whom they are due by divine appointment , nor the name and title of church to those societies , which god hath plentifully blessed with means of grace , have received the tables and seals , and have entred into covenant with his highnesse . your liberty to receive such satisfaction as is meet , is not called into question , nor whether you are to keep the bond of the spirit inviolate according to order . but whether this be to keep the bond of the spirit inviolate ( viz ) to exclude from the sacrament true visible believers or knowne recommended christians , formerly members of visible churches among us ; and their children ; because they are not members ( as you speak ) in church order . and whether god alloweth to put this difference between church mēbers of your societies & other visible believers walking in holines , though not admitted members of any society according to your church order , as to receive the one , though members of another society , unto the seals , and to debar the other and their children . these are the things to be considered in these present positions . and first we will examine your reasons for your judgment and practice by themselves , and then so far as we judge meet , try your answers to the objections you make against it . 1 consideration . the seals baptism & the lords supper are given to the church , as a priviledge peculiar therto in ordinary dispensation . indeed the preaching of the word is not so , being an ordinance given not onely for the edifying of the church already gathered but also for the gathering of men to the churches that yet are without : wheras the dispensing of the seals is gods ordinance , given onely for the edifying of the church being gathered , and not for the gathering of it : and because there is now , no universall visible church on earth wherein the seals are dispenced , there being no place , nor time , nor officers , nor ordinances appointed in the new testament by christ our lord , for any such assemblies as the iewes had under moses . it remains that the christian churches , whereunto these priviledges were given , are congregationall , consisting onely of so many as may and do meet together ordinarily in one place for the publike worshipping of god , and their own edifying . hence it is that we read so much in the new testament of the churches in the plurall number , the churches of christ , the churches of god , the churches of the saints : and not onely when they were of divers nations , the churches of the gentiles , but also of the same nation , the churches of iudèa , and not onely when that country was of large extent and circuit , the churches of asia , but also of a small part of the country , the churches of galatia : yea , when congregations in severall cities are spoken of , they are called churches , as the churches of ierusalem , the churches at antioch . to wind up all , seeing the churches in the gospell are congregationall , and that baptisme and the lords supper ( being church priviledges ) belong onely to the churches , it will follow , that as city priviledges belong onely to citizens and their children : so baptisme and the lords supper being church priviledges , belong onely to the members of particular churches , and their seed . and that seeing sigillum sequitur donum , to apply them to others what is it but to abuse them ? as a seal of a corporation is abused if added to confirme the grant of priviledges which are peculiar to any towne corporate to one that being no free-man of that corporation is uncapable thereof . reply . if by the church be understood the society of men , professing the entire faith of christ , the seales are given unto it as a peculiar priviledge ; but if by the church you understand onely a congregationall assembly in church order , the seales were never appropriated to it . but to examine every thing in order as it is propounded . 1 the seales , baptisme , and the lords supper , are given to the church as priviledges peculiar thereunto , not onely in ordinary ( as you say ) but also in extraordinary dispensation . true baptisme is not without the church , but within it ; an ordinance given to it , and they that are baptised , must needes be of a church . the sacraments are the seales of the covenant to the faithfull , which is the forme of the church , and when for substance rightly used , tokens and pledges of our spirituall admittance and entertainment into the lords family , and symbolls or testimonies whereby the people of god are distinguished from all other nations . this is most certain , as in the ordinary ; so in the extraordinary dispensation of the seales , as is confirmed by the texts of scripture alleadged in the margine . for the apostles ( as you say ) dispenced the seales in an extraordinary way , but the seales dispenced by the apostles were seales of the covenant , priviledges peculiar to the church , priviledges of spirituall admittance and entertainment into the lords family . and when you say the dispencing of the seals is an ordinance given onely for the edifying of the church being gathered , and not for the gathering of it , must it not be understood in extraordinary , dispensation as wel as ordinary : to what pupose then are those words ( in ordinary dispensation ) added to the proposition ? if thereby you would intimate that the sacraments be not the peculiar priviledges of the church , and seales of the covenant in extraordinary dispensation , it is evidently crosse to the text you cite , and to your selves afterward . if your meaning be , that in ordinary dispensation the sacraments doe of right belong to them onely , who bee set members of a visible congregation , it is all one with the conclusion , that which is in question and should be proved , and that which this very scripture doth plentifully disprove ' ; for they that were baptised were not set members of a particular congregationall church whereunto they were baptised , nor in a church way before baptisme ( as is evident and granted by the most of your selves ) but by baptisme solemnly admitted into the church , and then it is not for your purpose ; or they were set members ( as some of the brethren seeme to contend in answer to the objection framed against this consideration ) and then the words are more then superfluous . added , they were to prevent the objection which you foresaw might be made from the apostles practice and example but so as they cut asunder the sinews of the consideration it selfe , and make it of no force . for as those beleivers were of the church : so are approved christians and their seed among us : therefore the priviledges of the seales belong unto them . 2 and as the seales : so is the word of salvation preached and received a priviledge of the church . if by the preaching of the word you understand nothing but the tender of salvation or the publishing of the will of god , concerning the salvation of man , whether by private or publike persons ; it is not proper to the church but an ordinance given for the gathering of men to the church , and not only for the edifying of the church . for the apostles first preached to the gentiles when infidels , that they might be converted ; and we doubt not but a minister or private christian comming into a country of infidells , may as occasion is offered , and as they shall be inabled , instruct and perswade them to receive the faith of christ : but if by the preaching of the word be meant the giving of the word to a people , to abide and continue with them , and consequently their receiving of it at least in profession then it is proper to the church of god. the word makes disciples to christ , and the word given to a people is gods covenanting with them , and the peoples receiving this word and professing their faith in god through iesus christ is the taking of god to bee their god. the lawes and statutes which god gave to israell , was the honour and ornament to that nation , and a testimony that god had separated them from all other people , even the gentiles themselves being iudges . the word of reconciliation is sent and given to the world reconciled in iesus christ , and they that receive the doctrine , law , or word of god are the disciples , servants and people of god. in your second consideration you intimate that there is a two fold preaching , the one by office and authority , the other in common charity , or how ever else it may be called . for thus you write . god hath joyned to preach ( viz by office ) and to baptize together , therefore we may not separate them . now to preach unto , that is to instruct or counsell in charity is a duty which may be performed to an infidell , but to preach by office is proper to them that are called to that office : and so to be taught and instructed by officers in the church is proper to the church . to have pastors who shall feed with knowledge and understanding is a gift of matrimoniall love which god vouchsafeth unto his church . the apostles first gathered churches and then ordained elders in everie citie or church ; so that it is proper to the church to be fed and guided by true spirituall pastors who teach and blesse in the name of the lord. and if the word preached and received bee a certaine note of the true church , they that have intyrely received the word of salvation and have pastors godly and faithfull to feede and guide them , they and their seed have right and interest unto the seales in order . moreover the true worship of god is an inseparable and infallible marke of the true church of god , for where christ is , there is his church . this is the prerogative of the church . the prince shall be in the midst of them , and he shall go in when they goe in , &c. and christ saith , where 2. or 3. are met together in my name there am i in the middest among them . and for certain they are gathered in the name of christ that being lawfully called doe assemble to worship god and call upon his name in the mediation of iesus christ . in times past , the church was acknowledged by the feare of god , and entyre service of his majestie , by the professing of the true faith and faithfull calling upon gods name . the signes of apostolike churches are these . the continuance in the apostles doctrine and fellowship , and breaking of bread and prayer . and if faith , true and lively ( though mixed with many doubtings and errors ) make a man a living member of iesus christ , the entyre profession of true faith joyned with holynesse of life in some measure answerable thereunto , makes a man a true member of the visible church . and if the feales belong to the church in right and orderly dispensation , they that joyne together in the true worship of god , according to his will , with godly and faithfull pastors , they have right and title to the sacraments according to divine institution . thirdly , that there is now no visible catholike church in your sense will easily bee granted . i. e. there is no universall society consisting of all such as are accounted or to bee esteemed christians , subjected to one or many vniversall pastors or guides , wherwithall subordinates must communicate in some sacred things which may make them one church and which may and can be performed by that vniversall and head church only . such an vniversall christian church christ never ordained , no not in the dayes of the apostles , to whom all the care of all the churches , was committed . the churches planted by the apostles had all the same substantiall lawes and customes , the same guides and officers for kinde , the same ordinances of worship and meanes of salvation : but one flock or society in the fore mentioned acceptation they were not , because they were but subordinate to one visible head , christ , with which they were to hold union and communion in some worship to be performed by them all jointly assembled at some speciall solemnity , nor subjected to the government of any supreame tribunall constantly to be erected and continued among them . neverthelesse , in some respects of reason , the visible church , may be called the church , sheepfold or flock of christ ; for if the whole society or body mysticall of christ be one , this church militant in like sort is one : the unity of which society consists in that uniformity , which all severall persons thereunto belonging , have by reason of that one lord whose servants they all are , and professe themselves , that one spirit whereby they are animated as the body by one soul ; whereby they believe in christ , and which they acknowledge and professe , that one baptisme inward and outward , whereby they put on christ , and are initiated . this society is one in the inward fruition and enjoying of the benefits of christs death and resurrection , and in outward profession of those things which supernaturally appertain to the very essence of the church , and are necessarily required in every christian , this acceptation of the word is not unusuall in scripture . as god hath set some in the church . his bodies sake which is the church . the church viz. whereof paul was made a minister , and whereunto the rest of the apostles were ordained , which was the catholike visible church , the society of men professing the faith of christ throughout the world , divided into many particular churches whereof some are pure , others impure , some more , others lesse sound . hereunto it may be added , that every multitude and society of believers are indefinitely called the church , i persecuted the church of god. the house of god which is the church of the living god. in which sense all the churches in the world may truly be called one . and thus the apostle peter writing to many dispersed churches , who could not assemble in one place nor be fed by one shepherd , speaketh of them singularly as one flock . feed the flock of god which is among you . but that flock are the strangers dispersed through pontus , galatia . asia , cappadocia , and bythinia , which could not possibly joine together in the ordinances of worship , or make one distinct congregated assembly . and if the catholike militant church be one society , the seals that are given as a prerogative to the church are given unto it , and the true members of the catholike church have right and title to them in due order , though they be not admitted into the church fellowship you speak of . for as the flock or society is one : so is the ministery , faith , covenant , and sacraments , which are given as a communion prerogative unto the whole church , and not appropriated to this or that part ormember , as separated from the whole ; which is further evidenced hereby , that sometime it hath , and too often it may fall out , that a christian may be a true member of the universall visible church ( i. e. he may hold , professe , and maintain that holy catholike faith , pure , and undefiled , without which no man can be saved ) who for the present is no actuall member of any particular or visible society in church order . as for example , a man may be cut off by excommunication , from all commerce with the present visible church wherein hee was bred and born , when hee is not cut off from the catholike , orthodoxall church . hee may be deprived of participation of the ordinance in every particular society , when his right and title to them is much better then these who have most injuriously cast him out , or debarred him of the means of salvation . the communion of saints , whether visible or invisible is the effect and property of the church catholike , and agreeth to the severall parts and members thereof , as they be members of that body under the head , and if particular churches have communion together it must of necessity be , that they bee parts and members of the whole body which is one . 4. though there be no universall congregation or assembly nor can be imagined , yet there are and have beene many visible assemblies or societies , true churches of christ , to whom the prerogative of the seals is given , which have not beene united and knit together , in church-order into one congregationall body or society , for every society in covenant with god is the true church of god : for what is it to be the flock , people or sheepe of god , but to be the church of god ? and where there is a covenant , there is the people of god. they that are of the faith of abraham , are the children and seed of abraham , and within the covenant of abraham ( though but two or three ) and so of the same church with him by that covenant . the communication and accepting of the tables of the covenant is an undoubted token of a people in covenant or confederate , but every society professing the true and entire faith , joyning in prayer and thankesgiving , receiving the truth of god to dwell among them , and in some measure conforming themselves to the obedience of gods commandements , is in covenant with god. it is simply necessary to the being of a church that it be laid upon christ the foundation , which being done , the remaining of what is forbidden , or the want of what is commanded , cannot put the society from the title or right of a church . for christ is the foundation and head corner stone of the church , and a people comming unto christ , united unto him , built upon him , having communion with him and growing up in him , are the true church of god : and if the seals be annexed to the covenant by god himselfe , as we cannot deny a people in covenant to be the church , so we must not deny their right and title to the sacraments . if therefore the meaning of the proposition be , that the seales be given to the church , that is , to true and sound christians , and people in covenant with god , as a priviledge whether in ordinary or extraordinary dispensation we accept it as good and sound , but it makes against your judgement and practice in keeping away such as have right and title to the ordinances . if you meane the seales are given to the church , that is , onely to set members of some particular society combined by covenant ( as it is among you ) we cannot receive it , because it implieth a distinction not taught in scripture , and crosse to your selves . and for the thing it selfe the scripture hath nothing but many things against it as hath beene shewed . 5 if it be granted that the seales are the prerogative of a particular visible church , known and approved christians among us , and their seed are members of true and visible churches , and so to be esteemed among you before they be entred into church membership as you call it . for every society professing the intire and true faith , and joyning together in the right use of the sacraments in matters substantiall is the true church of god , and every visible beleever receiving the word and professing the true intire faith , admitted to the right and lawfull participation of the sacraments is a visible member of the true church , if he have neither renounced that society , nor deserved justly to be cast out by excommunication or church censure . for the intire profession of the truth , the dwelling of the truth among men , the right use of the sacraments ( which is ever joyned with truth of doctrine , and to be esteemed by it ) is proper to them that be in covenant with god , and they that truly partake of the seales must needes be of a church , for the seales are not without but within the church an ordinance given unto it , and if they be true members of the true churches of jesus christ , other churches , are bound to hold communion with them in the ordinance of worship as divine providence shall minister occasion . in answer to the ninth position you say the members of other churches , well known and approved by vertue of communion wich churches , doe mutually and with good acceptance communicate each of them at others churches , even so often as gods providence leads them thereunto , and themselves desire it . in your preface to this consideration , you say you admit to fellowship of the seales , the known , approved , and orderly recommended members of any true church , and if knowne and approved christians , members of our churches comming over into new england , shall desire either to have their children baptized , or to be admitted themselves to the lords supper before they be set members of any society these , we desire to know upon what grounds from god you can deny them , if you acknowledge our churches , ministery , and sacraments , to be true and of god ( as you professe ) and the members of the church be known and approved , orderly recommended unto you . it is the priviledge of christians baptised themselves , and walking in the faith , that their children should have right to baptisme in all true churches in the world . it is the priviledge of christians lawfully and justly admitted to the lords supper in one visible church , and walking in covenant with god , that they have right to this priviledge in all churches professing their intire faith , and you must shew just and sound reasons from god of your judgement and practice in debarring their seed from baptisme , and parents themselves from the supper , or else ( to use the words of a reverend elder among you , in a case of lesse importance , and not concerning so many ) you will be found guilty of adding to the words , and making eleven commandements , and setting up humane customes , and selfewill against gods appointment . for the sacraments are given to the church as a priviledge peculiar thereunto , but you deny this priviledge to the true visible members of the church , ( as your selves confesse . ) for if the ministers be the ministers of christ , and their congregations the churches of christ , then knowne and approved christians are members of the church . in your opinion the members of the jewish church might be received unto baptisme , upon confession of the christian faith , before they were entred into church fellowship , and it is more then strange to us that you should not thinke the true visible members of the churches of christ to have as much title and interest to the seales , as the members of the jewish church to the sacrament of baptisme . 6 the distinct churches mentioned in the new testament , it is not certain that they were congregationall societies consisting onely of so many as might and did meete together ordinarily in one place at one time for the publike worship of god , and their own edification , and if this were granted it would not carry the weight that was laid upon it , but because it may make way for the clearing of some other points pertaining to discipline and church orders , we intreat leave to set downe , and desire you to examine what may be objected against it . we will not insist upon this that the least circuite wherein there is mention of churches is ample enough to containe some diocesses and the least city , populous enough to make many numbersome congregations . nor upon this , that to meete at one time and one place , as one assembly is a thing meerely accidentary to the unity of the church and society ecclesiasticall which is still one , when they are dispersed asunder , and no particular man of that society at first remaining now alive . the number of beleevers was so great in some cities as they could not conveniently meete in one place as one assembly to worship the lord according to his will and for their edifying . that there was a church gathered in the city of samaria by the ministery of phillip will not be denyed , for they received the word and were baptised , but that the church in that city was onely a congregationall assembly is more then can probably be concluded out of scripture . for the whole city or the greatest part could not ordinarily assemble in one place to their edification : but the whole city of samaria , in a manner , ( as it is probable ) imbraced the faith . as the whole city from the least to the greatest had given heede to simon magus before , so to phillip now when he preached christ , and the text saith expresly that samaria received the gospell . the christian church at ierusalem was one and distinct , but it grew and increased first to 3000. then to 5000. afterwards multitudes of men and women were added , and the multitude of disciples increased ; it is also noted that a company of the priests received the faith . the syriacke hath it of the jews , ( scil . ) inhabiting judea , but the greeke , arabian , vulgar , chrisostoms & ethiopians approve the former , and the number of the priests was not small : there is mention also of millions of beleevers . and when all the apostles , or the greatest part of them remained at jerusalem for a time continuing in the ministery of the word and prayer , and that they might doe it the more earnestly and diligently , left the care of the poore to others : how can we thinke but that church did grow exceedingly , and the number of beleevers there to be more then could fitly meete ordinarily in one congregation . without question the number of beleevers in antioch was not small , of which it is said expresly , that a great number beleeved , turned to the lord and that a great multitude was added to the lord by the preaching of barnabas , and that paul and barnabas continued there one whole yeere preaching the word of god , and teaching the multitude , so that the disciples were first called christians at antiach . after that this church was visited by paul and barnabas , who continued there teaching and preaching the word of god with many others also , and may wee not thinke that this church did quickly rise to such bignesse that they could not well assemble in one congregation as now wee call them ? it will easily be credited that the number of believers was not small at ephesus , if we call to minde that when paul had been there but two yeers , all they that dwelt in asia had heard the word of the lord both iews and grecians , that a great doore and effectuall was opened to him at ephesus , that the art for making shrines , and dianaes temple was in danger to be set at nought , and that those that had used curious arts , came and burnt their books in the sight of all men , which could not be done without great danger unto the church , unlesse a great part of the city had believed . where a church did comprehend a city with its suburbs and the country circumjacent , i. e. the believers who professed the faith within that circuit . it might well be that the number did so increase through the extraordinary blessing of god , which accompanied the preaching of the word in those primitive times , and first planting of the heavenly kingdome , that they could not well meet ordinarily in one place , and yet continued one society . for when a number is gathered in small villages , or some added to the number already gathered , it is not meet they should be neglected because small , nor divided from the body , because the number not competent to make an intire and perfect body of it selfe . the increase of the churches doth require an increase of elders , and ( if they grow to bignesse more then ordinary ) an increase of places for their assembling , when the essence of the visible church is not changed , nor one multiplied or divided into many . and it is more available for the good of the church , and further removed from all ambition , if the society shall assemble occasionally in divers places as parts and members of the body , then to constitute a distinct free society consisting of a few believers , not fit to make up an intire body contrary to the precedent examples of the apostles . in times of grievous and hot persecution the churches of god could not assemble in any great number in publick places , but have been compelled to meet in woods , caves , dens , and dark corners , as the lord hath offered opportunity , one and the same society in sundry places : so that either it is not essentiall to the church to meet together in one place ordinarily , or their society is broken off by persecution , when their meeting together in one place is interrupted . it is said by some where the church grew greater , sometimes by the suddain and extraordinary conversion of more then could well so assemble , then was there presently a dispersion of the former , and a multiplication of more particular assemblies . but in the scriptures quoted no such thing doth appeare , but rather the contrary as hath been proved . in aftertimes when the church was within the cities as of rome , ephesus , alexandria , carthage , ierusalem , &c. the number of believers did greatly exceed the bignesse of a convenient and fitting assembly which might ordinarily congregate in one place to worship god according to his appointment when the church was but one . seventhly seeing then both the seals in ordinary and in extraordinary dispensation belong to the church , id est , to the faithfull , and repentant , taught made disciples , who have received the word , believe , and professe the faith , have received the holy ghost , and walke in obedience , who are members of other visible churches , or to be made members of a visible church for the time being , by admittance unto the sacraments , and not unto set members of congregationall assemblies only . and seeing the godly and faithful ministers among us are the true ministers of christ , and their godly congregations , true churches , and knowne , and approved christians , true members of visible churches formerly baptized , and admitted to the lords supper . this consideration is of no weight to justifie your opinion and practice in debarring known and approved christians , professing the faith , members of the true visible churches amongst us from the lords supper , or their seed from baptisme , because they be not yet received as set members of some particular cōgregation amongst you : and if such believers are not to be received to the seals , we desire you to consider if ever the sacraments of the new testament , were rightly dispensed in the church of the new testament from the first plantation thereof unto this day . the seale doth follow the grant , and as the seale is prophaned , if it be put to a false grant or charter , so are the faithfull wronged if the seale in a lawfull way desired , be denied to them that have received the grant , i. e. have right unto jesus christ , and communion with him . but the faithfull who have received the word with gladnesse , believe , and professe , be members knowne and approved by other visible churches , or such as desire to be admitted members of that visible society for the time by communicating in the ordinance , are already partakers of the grant or charter , have right and interest in christ , may lawfully desire the seals , and may be admitted as members for the time being of that particular society . therefore to debar such , from the lords supper , and their seed from baptisme , is against the law of nature , and the positive law of god , an injury to the faithfull and their seed , a wrong to the catholike visible church , that particular society , and the pastors themselves that so debar them . they sinned grievously who deferred baptisme to the end of their life , and the negligence of pastors and teachers who did not instruct the ignorant and reprove the superstitious , was great . and is not the severity in debarring such as crave and desire to be admitted to the seals an injury to be reprehended ? answ . 2 confider the ordinary administration of the seales is limited to the ministery and the ministery to a particular church ; therefore the seals also must necessarily be proper to the church and to the members thereof . 1. that the administration of the seales is limited to their ministery is evident from the first institution math. 28. 19. where god hath joyned ( to preach ) viz. by office , and ( to baptize ) together , therefore wee may not separate them . for howsoever : any man may by the appointment of the lord and master of the family , signifie his minde and deliver his message from him to the family , yet the dispensing of a fitt portion of food to everie one of the houshold is a branch of the stewards office . indeed the keies are given to the whole church yet the exercise and dispensation of them in this as well as in other particulars is concredited to the ministers who are called to bee 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , 1 cor. 4. 1. and no church office can be orderly performed by any , but one that is called thereunto nor will god vouchsafe his presence , and blessing ( wherupon all spirituall efficacy depends ) in an ordinance dispensed , but when it is dispensed by those whom he hath ordayned and appointed therunto . 2. that the ministery is limited to the church appeares as from evident texts of scripture : so also upon this ground . 1 the office is founded in the relation betweene the church and the officer , wherfore take away the relation , and the office and the worke ceaseth . for where he hath not power , he may not doe an act of power , and he hath no powerwhere he hath not a relation by office . herein the proportion holdeth between an officer of a towne corporate , and of a church that as the power of the former is only within his owne corporation : so the power of the latter is confined to his owne congregation . reply . the proposition is granted that the dispensation of the sacraments in the new testament both ordinary and extraordinary is limited to the ministery . but in that you alleadge for confirmation , somethings may be noted . 1 the first institution of baptisme is not contained in that passage math. 28. 19. but confirmed ; for the seales of the new testament were instituted by christ before his death , and his disciples had baptized many which they could not doe before the institution of the sacrament . secondly we see not how you can apply that text to preaching by office , which according to our exposition must bee a dispensing of a fit portion of food to everie one of the houshould . for it is plaine the apostles were sent forth to preach to everie creature or unto the world , to convert men unto god , to make them disciples and not to preach unto disciples only , or members of the houshould . the apostles certainly had authority , and preached by authority , but they preached not to infidells and heathens , as to disciples or members of the church , much lesse did they give a portion to them as to the houshold which is the preaching by office , which you acknowledge . thirdly if under the power of the keyes you comprehend preaching by office , dispensing the seales , casting out , and receiving againe into the bosome of the church wee deny the power of the keyes to belong to the church or community of the faithfull : we cannot find in scripture that christ ever granted such power to the faithfull , as faithfull joyned together in covenant in those passages which speake of this power , the execution of this authority is given to them to whom the authoritie is committed . if the power of the keyes be given to the whole church the apostles themselves must derive their authoritie immediatly from the church , and not from christ , for the power must be derived from them , unto whom it was given ; but their power , and authority was not from the church , but from christ immediatly . and if the dispensation , and exercise of the keyes , be concredited to the ministers ; doth it hold in all things or onely in the dispensation of the sacraments , and preaching by office ? doe they dispense the seales as the stewards of christ , from whom they receive their authority immediately or as the servants of the church , from which they derive their authority ? if in the first sense ; the power of the keys is not in the community of the faithfull . if in the second , the office of a minister is not the immediate gift of christ , nor the minister , so much the servant of christ , as of the church , from whom he must receive lawes , in whose name he must doe his office , and to whom he must give an account . we could wish you had explained in what sense , you hold the dispensation , and execution of the power of the keyes is concredited to the ministers , and by whom . for if the community of the faithfull have to doe in all matters concerning the body , to admit members , and cast them out , to make and depose ministers , to bind and loose by authority derived from christ , wee cannot see how in your judgement the dispensation , and execution of the power of the keyes is concredited to the ministers . fourthly that which you add , that god will not vouchsafe his presence and blessing to an ordinance but when it is dispenced by those , whom hee hath ordayned and appointed thereunto , must bee warily understood , or it may occasion errors and distractions not a few , you know what corruptions soone entred into the church of god , both in respect of doctrine , worship , offices , and entrance thereunto , and how ready and apt is the conclusion from your words , that christ hath not vouchsafed his presence , and blessing in his ordinances to his church ? but of this before . and on the contrary , seeing god hath vouchsafed his blessing in his ordinances dispensed by your selves , when you stood as visible ministers in the congregation , and churches of old england , you must confesse , did approve both your standings and his ordinances dispensed by you . secondly , as for the assumption , that pastors and teachers are limited to a particular charge or society ; but that flock is not ever one congregationall assembly meeting in one place , neither the band so streight , whereby they are tied to that one society , that they may not upon occasion performe some ministeriall act or office in another congregation , or to them that be not set members of their proper assembly . for first to dispence the seals of the covenant is a ministeriall act , an act of office , and not an exercise of gifts onely : but the pastors of one assembly may dispence the sacrament to the set members of another society upon occasion , as you confesse in this and in your answer to the ninth position . and if the members of one church may lawfully upon occasion receive the sacrament of the supper in another society from the pastor thereof , then may the pastor of one congregation performe a ministeriall act to the members of another , and if to the members of another then in another congregation with consent , and upon occasion . secondly , as the ministers are exhorted to feed their fleek : so is every christian and minister to try and examine himselfe whether hee be in the faith , but you will not allow this conclusion . i must examine my self . ergo no man is debarred from the sacrament for his unworthinesse , or to be tried or examined by others , to be observed , admonished , and brought to repentance for notorious sin . no more can it be rightly gathered from the former passages of scripture , that the minister is not upon occasion to performe any ministeriall act to any other people or society , because ordinarily he is to attend his own flock . thirdly , as the ministers have peculiar relation to their particular flocks , so the people unto their particular ministers , unto whom they are ried in speciall manner , as to their overseers , who must give account for theirsculs . and if this peculiar relation betwixt the people & the minister doth not hinder the people from receiving the lords supper at the hands of another minister ; nor the minister from performing the ministeriall act to the members of another congregation . neither doth his peculiar relation to his own flock hinder him , from administring unto others upon just occasion being intreated thereunto . as the combining of the people to their peculiar minister , doth not quite cut off their communion with other ministers : so neither doth the restraining of a minister to a peculiar flock quite cut him off from administring upon occasion : unto another people . paul appointeth the ephesian elders unto the care & charg onely of their own particular flock , but so to attend them ordinarily according to the rules of the scripture ; that as occasion was offered , might performe some ministeriall acts in another congregation . the taking heed unto their flocks which paul requires in this place doth cōprehend under it the administration of the word , prayer , and sacrament , and if it must be restrained to their owne particular churches onely , it is unlawfull for a pastor to preach or call upon the name of god in any publike assembly save his own , upon any occasion , as these be duties prtaining to common confession or profession of faith . ordinary pastors and teachers it is true , are not apostles , who are to go from place to place , from country to country , to plant and erect churches , but they are tied ordinarily to one flock , as the text proveth , and to which purpose it is commonly cited . but that a pastor is so tied to his flock , that he can perform no ministeriall act to any other upon any occasion that it proveth not , nor can we find that it was ever so understood by divines ancient or modern . w. b. telleth us , the learned bring these allegations to this purpose . but the authour in alledging the consent of the learned was very carelesse or much abused , for there is not one that speaketh to the purpose . i. d. disclaimeth that position ; and for the rest it is a matter notorious , they were never thought to be of that opinion ; and wee doubt not if any could be named to free this allegation from suspition of novelty , you would have cited one or more as you have done in that which followeth . feed the flock of god ( saith peter . ) but he speaks of all those dispersed churches to whom he writes , which he calls a chosen generation , a royall priesthood , a peculiar people : and in some respect of reason , under which we may apprehend them , are one flock , but not really as combined under the same pastor , or meeting in one place . and as these dispersed believers , or socieities make one flock : so the ministers attending their flocks or societies , and the ministery exercised by them is , or maketh one . 4 a minister chosen and set over one society , is to looke unto his people committed to his charge , and feed the flock over which the lord hath made him overseer , but he is a minister in the church universall , for as the church is one , so is the ministery one , of which every minister ( sound or orthodox ) doth hold his part , and though he be minister over that flock onely which he is to attend , yet he is a minister in the universal church . the functiō or power of exercising that function in the abstract , must be distinguished from the power of exercising it , concretely , according to the divers circumstances of places . the first belongeth to a minister every where in the church , the latter is proper to the place and people where hedoth minister . the lawfull use of his power is limited to that congregation ordinarily . the power it self is not so limited and bounded . in ordination , presbyters are not restrained to one or other certaine place , as if they were to be deemed ministers there onely , though they be set over a certain people . and as the faithfull in respect of a community betwixt them , must and ought to performe the offices of love one to another , though of different societies , so the ministers in respect of their communion , must and ought upon occasion to performe ministeriall offices towards the faithfull of distinct societies . 5 if this be not so , what shall become of the poore flock when the pastor is driven away by personall persecution , so that he cannot , if others may not afford them helpe and succour : what when the congregation it selfe is dispersed , must no sheepherd receive them into fold , when they are driven from their own , or neglected by him ? 6 if the pastor may be absent from his flock upon necessary , just , and weighty occasion , respecting his own good , the good of that society , or the common good of churches consociate , then may the pastor , the society , the churches procure some man to supply the defect , and doe the office of a pastor , preach the word , pray , and as occasion is offered , administer the sacrament in that congregation unto that assembly untill their sheepheard shall returne . shall the people be left as sheepe without a sheepheard ; because for the good of the churches their owne sheepheard is called from them for a time , that he might returne with greater joy and comfort ? the pastor is appointed to feed his own flock , and yet for the good of the whole church he may be called to leave , if not the care , yet the over-sight of his flock fot a while ; and by the same reason a pastor of another flock or congregation may performe the office , and doe the acts of a minister in his congregation during absence : yea if for the good of the churches he be called away , doe not the churches stand obliged in conscience to provide that the flock sustain no hurt by his absence which possibly yee cannot doe if one minister may not performe a ministeriall act in another congregation . 7 if the prophets of one church may prophesy in another , and apply their doctrines , exhortations and prayers to any of the occasions of the churches where they speake , whereof they are not set members , what hinders why the pastor of one congregation , may not preach and pray , administer the sacraments in another ? the pastor of one congregation is appointed to his peculiar charge but he is a minister in the universall church , as well as the prophets of one church may bee called prophets of the universall church by vertue of that communion which all true churches have one with another . without consent the prophet may not prophesie by exhortation , and with consent the pastor may administer the sacraments . 8 in the primitive churches when elders were ordained in every city , they were not onely to looke to their flock but indeavour the conversion of poore infidels among whom they lived , and the inlargement of christs kingdome , for the worke of the lord must be done in its season , and then was the time of the calling of the gentiles : it was not their office proper and essentiall to travail from countrey to countrey as did the apostles , nor were they pastors of the infidels , but by private instruction and publique teaching ( if any of them would bee penitent ) they were to labour the comming of them to god. and these infidels converted to the saith were to be baptised of the elders ordinarily in those cities , though the number might bee so great as they could not well meete in one congregation , nor be subject to the same pastor ; for either they must bee baptized by the pastors among whom they lived , ( being converted to the faith ) or continue unbaptized untill they were a number convenient to make a distinct society , or grow together into one body , and to elect and choose their own minister by whom they may be baptised : but that either they must stay so long without baptisme , or that a society of unbaptised men had power in those times to elect and choose their minister , by whom they should be baptised is contrary to all presidents in scripture . 9 and so if a pastor may not performe a ministeriall act to any other person or people but his own flock onely , then a company newly converted from infidelity , which cannot joyne themselves as set members to another assembly , must remain unbaptised till they have chosen their minister to doe that office . then must the people thus converted want officers til there be among themselves able men to pray , preach , exhort in the congregation at the ordination of their minister , or ( if that may bee omitted ) till there be fit men among them to examine the fitnesse of him that is chosen . 10 if subtile heretikes arise , and seduce , and draw away many from the faith , and the body of the society be not able to convince them , either they must be let alone or cast out without conviction , for neighbouring ministers stand in peculiar relation to their flocks onely , and must not meddle beyond their calling according to your tenent . 11 there is no precept or example in scripture more to warrant the admitting of a set member of one congregation unto the supper in another , or the baptising of his child , occasionally in another assembly then there is for receiving of knowne and approved christians and their seede that are not set members . the pastor is no more the pastor of the one then of the other , nor the one more of his flock then the other , neither of them set members , and both sorts may be members for the time being , and they most properly who are of longest abode among them . but as we heare it is frequent among you ( as at dorchester , &c. ) to baptise the children of another assembly , and usually you admit to the supper of the lord , members of other churches , and therefore the minister is not so limited to his particular church or flock but he may dispence the seales to others , which in this consideration is denyed . 12 if the want of one officer in a congregation for a time may be supplyed by another , as the want of the doctor , ruling elder , or deacon , by the pastor ; why may not the defects of some congregation or christians be supplyed by pastors or ministers of another congregation , when they are requested and desired ? the minde herein is godly , and the means lawfull , and well pleasing unto god. 13 and if a synod consisting of sundry members of particular churches , met together in the name of christ about the common and publike affaires of the churches shall joyn together in prayer and communion of the supper , wee can see no ground to question it as unlawfull , although that assembly be no particular congregation or church , hath no pastor over them , make not one ecclesiasticall body as a particular congregationall church , unlesse it be for the time onely . the minister therefore may do an act of office to them that be not set members of his flock as he may stand in relation to them for the time . 14 your comparison betwixt an officer of a town corporate , and of a particular congregation is not alike , unlesse you will say that a member of another corporation occasionally comming into the towne , is thereby a member of that society , and subject to the authority of the officer . for so you professe that the members of one society may occasionally communicate with another , and so be subject to the pastor for the time being , which if you grant , it overthrows the whole strength of this consideration . howsoever the comparison it selfe is very perilous if it be pressed . for if the officer of a town corporate , presume to doe an act of power out of his owne corporation , it is a meer nullity , but if a minister of the gospell dispence the sacrament of baptisme , or the lords supper to believers of another society ( though done without consent ) it was never deemed or judged a nullity in the church of god. let the comparison hold good , and most christians have cause to question whether they be truly baptized , or ever lawfully received the sacrament of the lords supper . if it may not be doubted , whether ever the sacraments of the new testament were truly or by authority dispenced , especially if we consider what follows in the other considerations . this argument from comparison is very usuall in the writings of brethren against communion with our churches , but for the most part greatly mistaken , to say no more . answer 3 consideration . circumcision and the passoever were to be administred onely to the members of the church . ergo , baptisme and the lords supper is so to be administred also . the consequence is made good by the parity of these ordinances . for if the argument hold strong for the proofe of paedo-baptisme which is taken from the circumcision of infants , why may we not as well infer a necessity of church membership to baptisme , from the necessity of it to circumcision . and that circumcision was peculiar to the church members of the church , may appeare in that persons circumcised , & onely they , might eat the passeover , and they onely might enter into the temple , which were the priviledges of church members . in our answer to the second objection against the first consideration we have shewed that circumcision was not administred to all that were under the covenant of grace ( which all believers were ) but onely such of them as joyned themselves to the church , at first in abrahams family , whereunto baptisme doth so far answer that the apostle counteth these expresse equivalent to be circumcised in christ with circumcision made without hands , and to be buried with christ in baptisme . indeed , in somethings they differ as onely the males were circumcised , whereas with us females are also baptized . the reason is because god hath limited circumcision to the males , but under the gospel that difference is taken away . againe , circumcision was administred in the private family ; but baptisme , onely in the publick assemblies of the church . the reason of this difference is , because they were bound to circumcise the males on the eighth day , but that could not stand with going to the temple which was too far off , for the purpose , to bring every child thither from all parts of judaea to be circumcised the eighth day . nor had they alway opportunity of a solemne convention in the synagogue on every eighth day ; when some child or other might be to be circumcised . but there is no precise day set downe so baptisme , nor are opportunities of publick assemblies so remote where churches are kept in a congregationall frame , but that every first day of the week baptisme may be administred if it be required . again , for the aforesaid reason , circumcision required not a peculiar minister ( for ought we finde in scripture ) but it is not 〈◊〉 in baptisme , as was shewd in the second consideration . but no good reason can be given , why , in this they should not both agree , viz. that they are both to be dispensed onely to members of the visible church , as it hath been proved in the first consideration . reply . this whole reason as it is propounded makes onely against it selfe ; who eve● thought that the seals of the covenant were not proper to confederates or th● church of god ? but of old all visible believers under the covenant of grace walking in holinesse , were of the visible church , and in church order according to the dispensation of those times , though not joyned in externall society with the family of abraham . and to exclude melchisedeck or iob , because they were n●● members of the visible church , when yet they were visible believers under the covenant of grace , and in church order as those times required , is well-nigh a contradiction , and so it is to debar known and approved christians members of ou● congregation , and their seed from the seals , because they be not of the visible church , for they are members of the church , and so to bee held and esteemed all true churches and members of the church , the true & proper meaning of this consideration , is that as circumcision and the passeover were not to be dispensed to all visible believers under the covenant of grace , but onely to such as were joyned to abrahams family , or to the people of the god of abraham , no more may baptisme and the lords supper be administred to any believers now , unlesse they be joyned to some particular congregation in church membership , or unlesse by solemne covenant , they be set members of some particular assemblies . the strength of this consideration stands in the parity which is betwixt the sacraments of the old and new testament , circumcision and baptisme , for parum par est ratio , but this parity is not found in every thing ( as is manifest by the particulars alleadged in the consideration it self . ) and wee must justly require some reason to prove them like in that particular , but to unfold it more fully , we will consider three things . first , how far an argument may be drawn soundly from one sacrament to another , or wherein the sacraments agree , and wherein they differ . secondly , what wee are to think of the proposition it self . thirdly , whether the reason of circumcision and baptisme be one in that particular . first the sacraments of the old testament and the new agree in their common ●uthor , nature and end , and therfore what is spoken of one in respect of the common author , nature and end that doth hold true of everie one . if circumcision be of divine institution a seale of the righteousnesse of faith , and of the covenant of grace , a sacrament in generall is an ordinance divine , a seale of the covenant pro●er and peculiar to them that bee confederates . but what is peculiar to one sacrament that agreeth not to another . what is proper to the sacraments of the old te●●ament , in respect of the manner of dispensation that agreeth not to the new , as if ●he sacraments of the old testament be with bloud , obscure in signification , painfull ●or use , peculiar to one nation , and to bee abolished , the sacraments of the new testament must be without bloud , cleere for signification , easie for use , universall ●o all nations , and perpetuall to continue in the church for ever . circumcision and baptisme are both sacraments of divine institution , and so they ●gree in the substance of the things signified , the persons to whom they are to bee ●dministred , and the order of administration , if the right proportion bee observed . ●s circumcision sealed the entrance into the covenant the righteousnesse of faith , and ●ircumcision of the heart : so doth baptisme much more clearly : as abraham and ●is houshold , and the infants of beleiving iews were to be circumcised , so the faithful , ●heir families , and their seed are to bee baptized . none must eate the passeover who was not circumcised , women excepted , who were circumcised in the males . nor may a man unbaptized be admitted to the lords supper . circumcision was but once applied by gods appointment and the same holds in baptisme according to ●he will and good pleasure of god : but circumcision and baptisme agree not in ●heir speciall forme , and manner of dispensation appointed of god. and in these ●hings a reason cannot be drawn from the one to the other affirmatively . the males onely were to be circumcised as only capable of that signe : but males and females both ought to be baptized . the infants males were to be circumcised the eighth day because seaven dayes they were legally uncleane . but the seed of the faithfull are not to bee reputed uncleane . ergo , no set tyme is appointed for baptisme . circumcision as other ceremonies did distinguish the iewes from the gentiles ; but christ now of two hath made one . circumcision signified christ to come , baptisme is the seale of ●he new covenant made in christ already come . and so in the degree of grace given , some difference may be put : the other differences alleadged in the considerations with the reasons thereof are not so cleere and undoubted : for baptisme is not tyed to the first day of the weeke : and the jewes might gather an assembly on ●he eighth day as occasion required , and it might be appropriated to the priests and levites though done in private : but in whatsoever they agree or differ we must ●ooke to the institution and neither stretch it wider , nor draw it narrower then the lord hath made it . for hee is the institutor of the sacraments according to his owne good pleasure . and it is our part to learne of him , both to whom , how , and for what end the sacraments are to be administred , how they agree , and wherein they differ . in all which we must affirme nothing but what god hath taught us , and as he hath taught us . secondly , as for the proposition it selfe ; certaine it is , circumcision and the passeover were to be administred onely to the visible members of the church , i e. to men in covenant , professing the true faith ; but that in abrahams time none were visible members of the church , which joyned not themselves in church orders to the family of abraham , wee have not learned . in the first institution of circumcision , we find that god gave it to abraham , as the seale of the covenant formerly made with him : but of any church covenant or order whereunto abrahams family should enter before circumcision we read not . melchizedeck , lot , iob , &c. were not onely visible beleevers under the covenant of grace , but visible members of the church , according to the order and dispensation of those times . wee read not ( you say ) that melchizedeck , lot or iob were circumcised , but that is no good reason to inferre negatively that they were not circumcised . we read not that iohn the baptist , or the apostles , or the 500. brethren were baptized , wee must not forthwith conclude , that they were not initiated by that seale . moreover , if they were not circumcised , it may bee the institution of that sacrament was not knowne unto them , or the authour of circumcision ( upon whose will and pleasure they must depend ) did not command it unto them , or require that they should joyne themselves in covenant with abrahams family : and in that case if they had circumcised themselves they had transgressed . but then the reason why they were not circumcised was not this , that they were not ( as you speake ) in church order : but because circumcision was appropriated to abrahams family by divine institution in some speciall and peculiar respects belonging to the manner of administration . after the church of the jewes was constituted ( when wee can no more imagine that there was a church among the gentiles , then that there are christians among the barbarians at this day ) we finde none must be admitted to the passeover that was not first circumcised , but nothing was required of a stranger to circumcision , but that he professe the true faith , and a vouch the god of abraham to be his god , which of necessitie must be done before he could be reputed a visible beleever , or under the covenant of promise . thus a learned and reverend divine , circumcision was a seale of the covenant , that god made with abraham concerning christ that should come as concerning the flesh of isaac and so of iacob of whom were the 12 tribes who were the israelites , &c. rom. 9. 4. 5. so that as in abrahams time none were bound to be circumcised but those that were of his family as being borne there or bought , and so brought thither which were not of his seed : so afterwards none were bound to be circumcised which were not borne in the family of jacob and patriarchs , or joyned to them . and after their comming out of egypt none were bound to be circumcised but the children of the iewes ( then the only church of god , ) and those that desired to joyne unto them . the summe is thus much , god gave circumcision to abraham as a seale of the covenant but whether it was given to other beleevers in his time it is ( at least ) a thing uncertaine . and if they were not circumcised it was by reason of the speciall institution of god , and peculiar manner of administration of the covenant of promise which in some respect was proper , to the family of abraham , and not common to all the visible members of the church at that time in church fellowship and order . afterwards when there were none in covenant but the seed of iacob or strangers professing the faith of abraham , circumcision was not to be administred to any man who was not in covenant nor any man to bee admitted to the passeover who was not circumcised . this is the most that can be said with any probability : but hence it will not follow by iust analogie or proportion , that the seed of the faithfull must not bee admitted to baptisme , or visible beleivers be received to the lords supper unlesse they bee set members of some particular congregation united in church order . thirdly , presupposing therefore that melchizedeck , lot and iob , were not circumcised , we say there is not the like reason of circumcision and baptisme in this particular . for , first if circumcision was ever appropriated to the family of abraham , and might be communicated to other visible beleevers , it was in the first institution and administration ; but in the first institution and administration of baptisme , it was not observed that beleevers should be first gathered into a politicall body or christian church membership , and then baptized . iohn the baptist baptized such as came to him confessing their sins . the apostles baptized disciples , such as gladly received their doctrine , beleeved in jesus christ , and received the gifts of the holy ghost , before they were gathered into christian church order , or made fit members of a christian congregationall assembly . 2 if circumcision was by speciall institution given as a priviledge to the males of abrahams familie , melchizedecke , iob , lot , and other visible beleevers were not bound to joyne themselves as members to abrahams familie , or desire and seek to be circumcised : but they that have received the doctrine of salvation , beleeve christ , and professe the faith , are bound to seek , and desire the priviledge of the seals in an holy manner . 3. melchizedech , job , and lot were not onely visible beleevers , but visible members of the church , according to the manner of dispensing in those times : but the seals ( as you confesse ) belong to all beleevers knit together in church-covenant . 4. if circumcision be appropriated to the family of abraham , it is because the covenant sealed by circumcision is peculiar to abrahams posteritie , ( sc . ) that christ should come as concerning the flesh , of isaac . but baptisme is the seal of the covenant of grace without any peculiar or speciall tye or respect . 5. you contend , that baptisme did belong to such beleevers as were members of the then jewish church , which cannot stand , if abrahams familie did answer to a christian societie or congregationall assembly ; just reason therefore may be given why circumcision was dispensed onely to the males of abrahams familie , when baptisme is not to be limited onely to the set members of a particular societie ; and if this consideration be applied to the purpose , instead of saying , circumcision and the passeover were to be administred onely to the members of the church , you must say circumcision was to be desired of or administred unto all the true approved visible members of the church . and if there be the same reason of both , then all visible approved members of the church must not desire nor be admitted to the seals , but this conclusion you will not acknowledge . answ . 4. consideration . they that are not capable of the church censures , are not capable of the church priviledges . but they that are not within church-covenant are not capable of church censures . ergo. the proposition is evident , the assumption may be proved , 1 corinth . 5. 12. what have i to do to judge them that are without . now to be without is not onely the case of heathens and excommunicates , but of some beleevers also , who though by externall union with christ they are within the covenant of grace , yet being not joyned externally to the visible bodie of christ ( a particular church ) are in regard of visible church communion said to be without . to this purpose is this text alledged by other divines also , as dr. ames cas . of consci . l. 4. c. 24. q. 1. resp . 5. reply . first , men are capable of church censures in two respects , either in having the power of the keyes , and authoritie to dispense them according to god , or as subject to the censures of the church . in the first sense , many are capable of church priviledges that are not capable of church censures , as the seed of christian parents , children and women . you say you admit to the seales the knowne and approved , and orderly recommended members of any true church : but to fellowship in the censures , admittance of members , and choice of officers onely , the members of that particular church whereof they and we ( any of us ) stand members . in the second sense also many are capable of church priviledges who are not subject to church censures : as the children of christian parents are capable of baptisme , the known and approved members of any true church are capable of the seales in other congregations among you who are not subject to the censures of that other society . spirituall communion in publick prayer is a church priviledge , which is not denied to visible beleevers and godly persons , though not in church order , and so not in subjection in your sense to church censures . secondly , a person baptised is not baptised in that particular congregation onely , but into all churches , and every particular church where he cometh he hath all the priviledges of a baptised person in respect of his baptisme , and is so to be esteemed by them . now the priviledge of a baptised person who is able to examine himself , and walketh in the truth , is to be admitted to the lords supper . all circumcised persons had right thereby to eat the passeover in any societie , in the place which god should chuse to put his name there . exod. 12. 4. 47. deut. 16. 1 , 2. so all baptised persons have true and intire right to the lords supper in everie true church where god hath set his name . thirdly , there is not the same reason of every church priviledge , for one may have right to some , who is not to meddle with others . the members of one society may hear the word , joyne in prayer , and receive the sacraments in another , when they are not to meddle in the election and ordination of their teachers . the ministers of the gospel may preach the word , and administer the sacraments in another congregation , and hereto he needs no other calling but that god offers an opportunitie ; there is much need of his help , and he is intreated , or hath leave from them in place or office ; but he is not to admit members into the societie , or cast them out that be admitted . and if the pastor of one church shall preach or administer the sacraments in another , contrary to the liking and approbation of the society and governours , though the act be irregular , it was never esteemed a nullitie ; but if he shall presume to excommunicate the members of another societie , without the consent o● the church , and approbation of pastors and teachers , under whose charge and jurisdiction they live , it hath been judged a meer nullity . therefore the proposition is not so evident as to be taken without proofe , that they have no power to admit a beleever into communion in any church priviledge who have no power to excommunicate . fourthly , that visible beleevers baptised into a true church professing the true faith , and walking in holy obedience , and godly conversation , that they and their seed should be judged such as are without in the apostles sense , because they be not externally joyned as set members to some particular congregation in church-covenant is affirmed , not proved . 1. it hath , and may fall out many times through the ignorance , rashnesse , or pride of a prevailing faction in the church , that the true members of the catholique church , and the best members of the orthodox visible flock , or congregation of christ may be no members of any distinct visible societie . and shall their posteritie be esteemed aliens and strangers from the covenant , and debarred from the sacraments , because their parents are unjustly seperated from the inheritance of the lord ? surely as parents unjustly excommunicated do continue still not onely true members of the invisible body ; but visible members of the flock of christ : so the right of baptisme doth belong to the infants of such parents , though not actuall and constant members of this or that present assembly in church order . 2. if they be without , because no members of a politike bodie or spirituall fellowship : then all members which are of one societie are without to another : for they that be not of the bodie are not capable of church censures , or subject to the authoritie one of another . and so not being under the judgement of that particular church to it they are without ; whereas in ancient and moderne times distinct societies did communicate together , admit and receive each other as brethren , to testifie their fellowship in the faith . if the reason whereupon the apostle saith the church of corinth was not to judge them that were without , was because they were not within the church of corinth , and so not under their censure or judgement : this holds true of them that be of another society admitted to the sacrament , as well as of such as be no set members desiring to be received to the lords supper . 3. ( the fornicators of this world ) do they not explaine whom the apostle pointeth unto by the title of being without , ver . 10. 11. such as had not received the covenant of grace . 4. church order is necessarie we denie not ; but this order that a man should be a constant and set member of a particular societie by covenant , to make him a true member of the visible church , or to give him title or interest to the publick order , this is not taught of god. 5. paul divides all men into two ranks , the first and greater without ; the last and lesser within : but that beleevers who have received the holy ghost , and have been baptised into jesus christ , that they and their children should be reckoned among them that are without , that we read not in this nor any other scripture , but in phrase of scripture hereticks themselves are within the church . 6. the beleevers not yet gathered ( as the godly learned think ) into a certain distinct body are called beleevers , brethren , disciples ; but that they should be comprehended under them that are without , it hath not been beleeved in the church . 7. without ( saith the apostle whether alluding to this place or not , let others judge ) are dogs , inchanters , whoremongers , not such as are called faithfull and holy , walking in integritie , beleeving in and professing jesus christ to be their saviour . 8. they that are without in the apostes sense are aliens from the common-wealth of israel , strangers from the covenant of promise , having no hope , and without god in the world : but we hope you will not passe such rash and unadvised censure upon your brethren , who be not gathered into your societie as set members . 9. let the interpretation stand , and he is without , not onely who is no set member of some congregationall assembly , but he that is not subject to the censure of the community of that particular combination few or many , with , or without officers . and so all the reformed churches in the world who ascribe the power of the keyes to the presbitry or classes , and not to the community , and some amongst your selves ( if not the most ) shall be without also . and therefore we cannot think approved christians desiring to be received unto the sacrament , either to be without , or uncapable of church censures for the time being if they should offend , though not set members of any particular congregation : for desiring baptisme for their children or themselves to be admitted to the lords supper for the time they put themselves under the ordinance of jesus christ there . and as they are members for the time , so they might be proceeded against according to the rule prescribed by our saviour , as they would proceed with an offending member . 10. if upon just and good reason a passage of scripture can be cleared to prove that for which it was never alledged by any writer , we are not to except against any truth of god , because it wanteth mans testimonie . onely if we desire credit in such cases , our reasons must be weightie and convincing . but for your exposition of this text of scripture , as yet we have not observed one substantiall ground , or approved author to be alledged . doctor ames shewing the necessitie of christians ioyning themselves to some particular church , giveth this reason , quoniam alias fieri non potest qu●● conturbentur signa illa quibus fideles ab infidelibus discerni possunt . 1. cor. 5. 12. but herein dr. ames manifestly sheweth that by them that are [ without ] heathens , and unbeleevers must be understood , and not beleevers and godly men though of no particular setled societie for the time , for thus we conceive he argueth . the signes and evidences whereby the faithfull are to be discerned from unbeleevers , must not be confounded : but unlesse christians make themselves actuall members of a societie or church , the signes whereby the faithfull are discerned from unbeleevers , will be obscured and darkned . and if this be his reason how can that text of scripture be alledged for confirmation , unlesse by [ men without ] infidels be understood . again doctor ames in the same book , lib. 4. ca. 27. speaking of infants to be received , it is required ( he saith ) that they be in the covenant of grace in respect of outward profession , and estimation in respect of their parents , and that there is hope they shall be instructed and brought up in the same covenant . 2. that baptisme doth most properly belong to those infants whose parents , at least one of them is in the church , and not without , because baptisme is a signe and seale of the covenant of grace . 3. that children that are cast forth are in charitie to be esteemed the children of christian parents , when there is no just cause of presuming the contrary , that in admitting unto baptisme a difference must be put betweene the infants of those who in some sort belong to the church , but openly break the covenant of god , and the children of others . 1. because a distinction must be observed in holy things betweene the cleane and uncleane ; seeing else the ordinance of god cannot be preserved from all pollution . to say nothing of that which he addeth touching the baptisme of infants borne in fornication , excommunication , and papists , which is more then sufficient to cleare his meaning in the former passage . to this may be added that he holdeth it not necessarie that christians should gather themselves into a particular society , but as opportunitie and occasion should offer it self . so that it was never his mind to censure them who be not gathered into church-covenant , because they want means or opportunitie as men without in the apostles sense . his judgement is further manifested in his second manuduction , pa. 33. so many parish assemblies of england ( saith he ) as have any competent number of good christians in them , united to worship god ordinarily in one societie , so many have the essence and integrall forme of a visible church , and all they have intire right to christ , and to all the meanes of injoying him , how ever they are defective in the puritie of their combination , and in the compleat free exercising of their power , whereupon a reverend * elder now among you draws this conclusion , ergo to dischurch them wholly , and to separate from them as no churches of christ , or to denie baptisme to the infants of their known members is not warrantable by any rule of scripture that i know , nor justified by any assertion or practise . answ . 5. consideration . vve may adde hereunto for a fifth consideration , the evill and pernicious consequences of extending communion in church priviledges beyond the bounds of church fellowship : for thus , 1. the extraordinarie office of the apostles , and the ordinarie office of pastors and teachers will be much confounded , if the latter be as illimited as the former in the execution of their office beyond the bounds of their own particular churches . 2. the distinction of church assemblies from the confused multitude is abrogated , if without membership in a particular church the parents may communicate with the churches in the lords supper , and their seed in baptisme . 3. the church shall indanger the profaning of the seals , and want one speciall meanes whereby the grace and pietie of men may be discerned and made known ; for if without respect to their church estate men of approved pietie ( as you say ) are to be admitted to fellowship in the seales , how shall their pietie be approved to the church not by their own report of themselves alone without attestation of such as are approved by the church ; and how can such beare witnesse to their approved pietie , who against light refuse to professe subjection to the gospel of christ by orderly joyning themselves in fellowship with some approved church of christ as members thereof when they have opportunitie thereunto , seeing such fellow-ship is an action of pietie required of all beleevers in the second commandment ; and true pietie frameth mens spirits to have respect to all gods commandments . and we have had much experience of it , that men of approved pietie in the judgement of some have been found too light , not onely in the judgement of others , but even of their own consciences , when they have come to triall in offering themselves to be members of churches , with such a blessing hath god followed this order of taking hold of church-covenant by publick profession of faith and repentance before men be admitted to the seales ; but this meanes of discoverie of mens pietie and sinceritie would be utterly lost , if men should be admitted unto the lords table without entring in church-fellowship . reply . if it be repugnant to divine institution to admit of approved christians lawfully baptized , walking in the faith , members of the visible churches , and partakers of church priviledges among us to the lords supper , or their children to baptisme , because they be not entred into church fellowship according to your order , then it is unlawfull though no such evill consequences are to be feared . but if by accident some abuse should fall out , the evill is to be prevented by all lawfull meanes : but the faithfull are not utterly to be debarred of the order of god , whereto they have right and title by his free grant and gracious invitation . and no question but the seales of the covenant may be profaned many times when it is not in the power of the dispensers to put back or expell such as profane them . if the congregation shall admit of , or tolerate an unworthy member , the churches priviledges are profaned ; and yet we conceive you will say the pastor is not faulty in receiving him , when the church doth tolerate unworthily , if he do what pertaineth to his office to keep the holy things of god from contempt . but in the case propounded there is no feare or danger of such consequences necessarie to follow : for the question is not of all sorts at randame , but of christians professing the faith intirely , lawfully baptised , known , and approved to the consciences of the wise and judicious visible members of the churches of christ among us often admitted to the lords table , whether these either sufficiently knowne unto you , or orderly recommended may upon desire and suite themselves be admitted to communicate in the lords supper , and their children to be baptized , what feare is there now that the extraordinarie office of the apostles , and the ordinarie office of pastors and teachers shall be much or little confounded ? is this to take as illimited power as the apostles did in the execution of their office ? how shal this tend to abrogate the distinction of church assemblies from the confused multitude ? or how is the profanation of the seals thereby indangered ? you aske if without respect to their church estate men of approved pietie ( as we say ) are to be admitted into fellowship in the seals , how shall their pietie be approved to the church , not by their own report of themselves alone , &c. do not you say the same , that there be many godly persons , and of approved pietie among us , who are not approved by their own report of themselves ( unlesse ye will take their wisedome , faith , patience , courage , constancie , and holinesse of life for their report ) approved , we say by as ample and sufficient testimonie as the apostles exacted of them whom they received into church fellowship , or can be required of members admitted unto the priviledges of the church , if men will follow the lords direction , or as you can give to ordinances members of your societies . you professe high respect of your brethren in old england , but it seemes you judge them insufficient to give orderly testimonie of the sinceritie and uprightnesse of approved christians , well known unto them , and living among them , which two cannot well agree . we speake not of such who against light refuse to professe subjection to the gospel of christ to joyne themselves orderly in fellowship with some approved church : but of such as do with all readinesse professe subjection , and walk accordingly , and heartily desire to joyn themselves to the most pure and compleat churches so farre as they are taught of god , or have opportunitie thereunto . and if exception be taken against them onely , who refuse against light to submit themselves to the gospel ; by what rule do you proceed when you judge men to refuse against light , or debarre them who do not refuse against conscience , but for lacke of opportunitie . no doubt ( as you say ) but now and then a man of approved pietie in the judgement of some may be found too light , yea and in the judgement of his owne conscience when he hath come to triall . and no question but many have been admitted by the church , who indeed and truth are much too light ; and some refused who deserved better then they that cast them off , we will not dispute what errours have been committed , nor what blessing ye have found upon your proceedings ; we heartily beseech the lord to keep your congregation pure , make his ordinances more and more effectuall , go before you in the way wherein you should walk , and multiply his mercies upon you in the same . but this we are perswaded , and therefore we speak , that in debarring godly christians from the lords supper , and much more the children of those parents who are in covenant with god , from holy baptisme you exceed your commission you have received from god , and go beyond your due bounds . and notwithstanding your circumspection more worthy and faithfull christians have been denied when of lesse worth , and meaner sufficiencies have passed , and been by you received . answ . 6. consid . none have power to dispence the seales but they that are called to the office of ministery ; and no man can be so called till first there be a church to call him , seeing the power of calling ministers is given by christ unto the church ; and thence it follows , that all those that desire to partake of the seales , are bound to joyne themselves in church state , that so they may call a minister to dispense the seales unto them . and this dutie by the appointment of god lieth not onely upon some christians , but equally upon all : ergo no christian can expect by the appointment of god to partake in the seals till he have joyned himselfe in church fellowship , and in the call of the minister . and indeed seeing a church , and a minister called by the church , is of such necessitie for the dispensing of the seales , it may seeme unreasonable that some christians should be bound to become a church , and to call a minister that so the seales may be dispensed , and other men ( when this is done ) have equall libertie to the seals who refuse to joyne unto the church . reply . this conclusion is not to the question propounded , for we speake of such as cannot , not of such as refuse to joyne themselves unto the church ; or if they do not joyne , it is not out of contempt or wilfull neglect of gods ordinance , or desire of carnall libertie , and not to be in subjection to christ , but for lacke of opportunitie , or through their fault that should admit them but do not . for if in any of your churches you shall require more of members to be admitted then christ the chiefe shepherd of the flock doth , or presse that upon their consciences which they cannot consent unto , if they shall sit downe quietly for the time and serve god in private , when they cannot injoy church priviledges , it is your fault and not theirs . and they may more justly challenge the assemblie as injurious and tyrannicall , then you them as wilfull despisers of gods ordinance . we accuse not the wisedome and discretion of your chuches , but we know the zealous multitude may sometimes be rash ; and when a reason is craved of your judgement , why you do debarre the most knowne and approved christians which come over , and their children from the seals of the covenant , we dislike you should put this note upon them , as if against light they refused orderly to subject themselves to the gospel of jesus christ : what warrant you have thus to censure , what use of this manner of dispute we leave it to your godly wisedome to judge . in the consideration it self there are many propositions couched together , which we must examine severally as they have reference to the conclusion intended , and then try whether it can be raised from them . the first proposition , that none have power to dispence the seales , but they that are called to the office of ministery , is freely granted . the second , that no man can be so called till first there be a church to call him , needeth explication . for by the church you must understand the community of the faithfull , as they are one bodie , without officers or guides . and such a church there cannot be without a ministery to call and admit them into church-fellowship . the apostles baptised not themselves , but by the help of others , & those not called of the people to be baptised , 1 cor. 1. 17. the apostles appointed by electiō , elders in every city or church . and so there was a church before elders were set over it , but this church was a societie of beleevers by baptisme admitted into church-fellowship . there can be no church to call a minister to feed the flock , and dispence the seals , till they have received the doctrine of salvation intirely , and by the seale of initiation be solemnly received into the societie of men professing christ . a company of men converted to the faith being unbaptized , may and ought to desire baptisme , but they have not power to elect and chuse one among themselves to dispence the seales unto the rest for ought is to be found in scripture : the churches constitution into which christians are to gather themselves must be apostolicall , and not one day or houre younger in nature and forme of it , thus the first church of the new testament . but it can never be shewed in scripture that any societie of unbaptised persons did first chuse from among them a pastor or teacher by whom they might be baptised : you cannot produce one example or other proofe in the scripture , of one man teaching the gospel ministerially but he was baptised , and a member of a true church , or of a societie who made choice of a pastor and teacher , but they were baptised persons . the third proposition , that the power of calling ministers is given by christ unto the church , must also be rightly understood : for by the church must be meant the societie of the faithfull , not onely ingrafted into christ , set into the state of salvation , and made heires apparent of everlasting blessednesse , but solemnly entred and inrolled into the societie of christs flock , and acknowledged members by free admission into the seales of the covenant . againe , by the church if we speake of ordinary calling , must not be understood of the faithfull alone , but their guides and officers together with them , who are to goe before the rest , and to direct and governe them in their choice . neither can we say , that any two or three beleevers linked together in societie doe make such a church , as to whom the calling of the minister doth belong : but that right was given by christ to such churches as were gathered and established by the apostles . the church hath a ministery of calling one whom christ hath described , that from christ he may have power of office given him in the vacant place . but the office , gift , and power of the ministery , is immediately from christ and not from the church . the church doth neither virtually nor formally give power to her officers but ministerially onely , as ministring to him who hath power and vertue to conferre it . and this right of election is so given to the communitie and body of the people , that if they have consented to give away their right , or if it be taken injuriously from them , the calling of the minister notwithstanding may be true , and ministeriall acts done by him that is thrust upon the people without their consent may be effectuall to their salvation . a wrong it is altogether to debarre the godly of their consent in the calling of such as must watch for their soules ; but it makes not the calling it selfe a meere nullitie ; for then many churches in the world within a few hundred yeares after christ should have wanted both ministery and sacraments , and they would have been altogether destitute of both ministery and sacraments for many hundred yeares . the fourth , that all those who desire to partake in the seales , are bound to joyne themselves together in church-state , that so they may call a minister to dispence the seales unto them , will not follow from the former rightly understood . we deny not but christians are bound to joyne themselves together in holy fellowship , if god give them opportunitie : but they must partake in the seales before they can joyne themselves together in church-state . and such as for lack of meanes and opportunitie cannot joyne themselves into such an estate , or be dispersed by persecution , or be destitute of pastors and teachers , may for a time desire and seek to have the seales dispenced unto them by the pastors and teachers of other societies , with whom they hold communion in the faith . the people also who are deprived of right and libertie to choose their pastor , may desire and seek to have the seales dispenced unto them by him who is set over them . if a company of infidells should be converted to the faith , they must desire to partake in the ordinances of grace before they could joyne together in a church-way to call a minister of their own , who might administer the sacraments unto them . to make disciples and baptize are joyned together . and if these propositions be allowed for current , a nation or people plunged into idolatry or infidelitie , or otherwise dischurched , cannot by ordinary meanes recover into a church-estate , wherein they may lawfully and according to gods appointment desire or expect that the seales of the covenant should be dispenced to them . the fifth proposition riseth beyond measure , that no christian can expect by the appointment of god to partake in the seales till he have joyned himselfe in church-fellowship and the calling of the minister . wee conceive you will not say that children and women have to doe in the call of the minister ( for women they are debarred by their sex as from ordinary prophesying , so from any other dealing wherein they take authority over the man ) if some part of the congregation doe not consent in the election of pastors or teachers , have they not right to expect to have the seales of the covenant dispenced to themselves or their seede ? if the people be deprived of that libertie to choose or call their minister , must they seperate from the ordinances of worship there dispenced , and from the congregations as no true churches ? if some persons by the providence of god live in such places where they cannot joyne in church-fellowship and call of the minister ( as suppose the christian wife , childe , or servant ) nor lawfully remove to any such societie must they and their children live as strangers and aliens from the covenant of grace , wherein they may not expect to partake of the seales ▪ if infidels be converted to the faith , must they not partake in the seales , because they cannot joyne in church-fellowship and call of the minister , before they be admitted to baptisme ? here you say the people must joyne together in the call of the minister , before they can lawfully desire to be admitted to the seales . and another hath zealously affirmed ( it is a presumptuous sin in any to choose an officer not trained up and tryed ( scil . ) in the debating , discussing , carrying , and contriving of church-affaires , as also in admonition , exhortation , and comfort , publickly occasioned and so manifested ) lay these two together , and let it be considered how long many a poore soule converted to the faith must be compelled to want the comfort of gods ordinances . besides , if a people be joyned together in church-fellowship , and have called a pastor to feed and watch over them , wee desire ( not words but ) proofe why the poore dispersed christians wanting means or opportunitie to joyn themselves together into societie , ought not to desire , and that others be not bound in conscience to afford them the comfort of gods ordinances . if the propositions may stand for good , i feare we shall scarce finde that ever in ordinary way , the sacraments were lawfully dispenced or received in the christian churches of god since the first foundation of them . now the premises being liable to so many exceptions , the conclusion to be laid upon them , will fall of it selfe . and thereunto wee oppose the direct contrary . that infidels converted to the faith , or godly christians , formerly visible beleevers , knowne and approved members of congregations professing the intire faith , and joyning together in the lawfull use of the sacraments for substance according to the institution , may and ought to desire and expect the seales of the covenant to be dispenced to them , and to their seede , though for the present they be not joyned into such church-state and call of ministers as you require . answer 7. consideration . that our practise may not be censured as novell and singular , give us leave to produce a president of the like care observed and approved by publick countenance of state in the dayes of edward 6. of blessed and famous memory , who in the yeare 1550. granted johannes alasco a learned noble man of poland under the great seale of england , libertie to gather a church of strangers in london , and to order themselves according as they should finde to be most agreeable to the scriptures . among other godly orders established in that church , that which concerned the administration of baptisme to prevent the prophanation of it we will repeate in alascoes owne words . baptisme in our church ( saith he ) is administred in the publique assembly of the church after the publique sermon : for seeing baptisme doth so belong to the whole church that none ought to be driven thence , which is a member of the church , nor to be admitted to it who is not a member of it , truely it is equall that that should be performed publiquely in the assembly of the whole church , which belongs to the whole church in common . againe , he addeth ; now seeing our churches are by gods blessing so established by the kings majestie , that they may be as it were one parish of strangers dispersed throughout the whole citie , or one body corporate ( as it is called in the kings grant ) and yet all strangers doe not joyne themselves to our church , yea there are those who while they avoyde all churches , will pretend to the english churches that they are joyned with us , and to us that they are joyned to the english churches , and so doe abuse both them and us , lest the english churches and the ministers thereof should be deceived by the impostures of such men ( and that under colour of our churches ) wee doe baptize their infants alone who have adjoyned themselves to our churches by publique confession of their faith , and observation of ecclesiasticall discipline . and that our churches may be certaine that the infants that are to be baptized are their seede , who have joyned themselves thereto in manner aforesaid , the father of the infant to be baptized ( it possible he can ) or other men and women of notable credit in the church , doe offer the infant to baptisme , and doe publickly professe that it is the seede of the church , yet wee suffer no stranger to offer infants to baptisme in our churches , who hath not made publique profession of his faith , and willingly submitted himselfe to the discipline of the church , lest otherwise they who present their children to baptisme , might in time plead that they belong to our churches , and so should deceive the english churches and their ministers . to those which presented infants to baptisme , they propounded three questions , the first was ; are these infants which yee offer the seed of this church , that they may lawfully be here baptized by our ministery ? &c. answer , yea. this instance is the more to be regarded , because alasco affirmeth in the preface of that book , that this libertie was by the king granted to them out of his desire to settle alike reformation in the english churches , which in effect you see the same with our practise in this particular . reply . the practise of the church of strangers in london , recorded by john alasco , is farre different from your judgement and practise , not in some by-circumstances , but in the maine point in question ; for your judgement is that true visible beleevers , baptized and partakers of the lords supper in other churches not yet gathered into church-estate or fellowship , have no right or interest in the seales , ( they nor their seede ) but this church of strangers held no such opinion as their own words ( which you have omitted ) doe plainly speake . and paul testifyeth ( say they ) that by christs ordinance the church it selfe without exception of any member of it , is to be accounted cleane or holy by the ministery of baptisme . whence we may easily see , that baptisme doth neither belong to those who are altogether without the church , nor to be denyed to any member of the church . secondly , they held communion with the church of england as one and the same with theirs . for so they professe : yet neverthelesse , that we may openly shew that the english churches and ours are one and the same church ( though we differ somewhat from them both in language and ceremonies ) we doe not refuse that the english may as publick witnesses of the church offer the infants of our members to baptisme in our churches , if they have both the use of our language and a certain testimony of their piety . as in like manner our members are accustomed to offer the infants of the english to baptisme in the english churches . if your judgement be this of the english churches , your judgement in acknowledging us members of true churches , and practise in debarring visible beleevers and their seede from the seales , are opposite the one to the other . thirdly , this order was observed by them to prevent the impostures of some , who whilst they avoyded all churches , pretended to the english , that they were joyned to the strangers , and to the strangers that they were joyned to the english . but you debarre knowne christians who desire to joyne themselves with you , not to prevent impostures of them who avoyde all churches : yea , you debarre them as men having no right to the sacraments , because they be not in church-fellowship : and herein you can shew no president ancient or moderne , either from scripture or monuments of the church : and as your practise is without example , so without warrant from the word of god. and this is the maine reason why we cannot consent unto you in this particular which we thus propound . 1 reason . that sacred order which god hath set in his visible church for all his saints to keep and walk by , that is religiously to be observed . but for men to set up that as a necessarie order which god never allowed , approved , or commanded , is great presumption . now the lord hath not ordained that a man should be a set member of a particular societie , or body politique of faithfull people joyned together in spirituall church-fellowship by covenant , before he be admitted unto the lords supper , or that the parents should be actuall visible set members of some particular distinct body before their children be baptised . they that beleeve in jesus christ have received the word of promise and walk therein , they and their children are within the covenant , and have right and title to the seales of the covenant , but in their order , the infants to baptisme , parents baptised , to the lords supper . and if in that state by divine grant they have interest to the sacraments , the church in debarring them because they be not yet grown into one distinct separate societie of mutuall covenant , doth exceed the bounds of her commission . for a ministeriall power onely is committed to the church to admit or refuse them who are to be admitted or refused by authoritie from god : but the church if she thrust beleeving parents from the supper of the lord , and their seed from baptisme ; she denieth these benefits to them who by the grace and gift of god have lawfull right and title thereto . 1. for first , the baptisme of john was true baptisme , and truly administred by him : and they that were baptized by him received the seales of the covenant , and were esteemed members of the visible church : but john never demanded of them who came to his baptisme whether they were entred into spirituall fellowship by mutuall covenant one with another . this was not then knowne to be a necessarie and essentiall point in the lawfull , due , and orderly administration of the sacrament . the disciples of our saviour made and baptised disciples professing the faith , but not combined into church-state or fellowship . the apostles commission was first to teach the gentiles , and then to baptise them having received their doctrine . and this they carefully observed in the execution of their ministery upon grounds and reasons common to them and us : for as soone as any man or number of men gladly received the doctrine of salvation , and gave their names to jesus christ , if they desired to be baptised forthwith they accepted them , never excepting , that they were no set members of a distinct visible congregation . when the first 3000. converts , being pricked in their consciences , came to peter , and the rest of the apostles , saying . men and brethren , what shall we do ? peter returns this answer , repent and be baptised every one of you in the name of jesus , &c. for to you is the promise made , and to your children , and to all that are afar off , &c. as soon as the samaritanes beleeved , philip who preached the things that concerned the kingdom of god , they were baptised both men and women . when the eunuch asked of philip , see here is water , what doth let me to be baptised ? he answereth not if thou beest first received as a set member into a visible congregation thou mayest : but if thou beleevest with all thy heart , thou mayest . can any man forbid water ( saith peter , speaking of the gentiles upon whom was powred the gift of the holy ghost ) that these should not be baptised who have received the gift of the holy ghost as well as we ? at that time it was not held a bar sufficient to keep them from the sacrament of baptisme , because they were not set members of a distinct societie , which had it been essentiall to the lawfull and orderly administration of the sacraments , questionlesse it had been observed in the first institution and administration of them . annanias baptised paul before he was any set member of a congregationall assembly . lydia and her houshold , the jaylor and his house were baptised without regard to their church-estate . for in the same night which he was converted , he was baptized with all his houshold . and this was done not by the apostles onely upon speciall dispensation , but by others upon grounds and reasons common to them , and all ages , viz. because they were disciples , beleeved , gladly received the word , had received the holy ghost , were called , and the promise was made to them , and to their seed , even to all them that were afarre off . now if the apostles dispensed the seales to them that were not in church-fellowship upon common grounds , it is not essentiall to the lawfull dispensation of the seales , that all partakers should be under such a covenant . if the baptised disciples , beleevers , such as gladly received the word , and had received the gift of the holy ghost , then the seals of the covenant belong unto such , and by the grace of god they have right and title unto those priviledges . 2. as we received the sacraments from god by divine institution ; so must we learne from him , how and to whom the same are to be administred , observing what he hath commanded without addition or diminution . but we have learned from christ the author of baptisme , and the constant practise of the apostles ( the first dispensers of these holy seales who best understood the mind and pleasure of the lord herein ) that such as be called of god to whom the promise is made , who have received the gifts of the holy ghost , beleeved in the lord jesus , professed their faith in him , and repentance for sins past with purpose of amendment for the time to come , that such have right unto , and desiring it ought to be received unto baptifme , and are greatly wronged if they be deprived of that unspeakable benefit . 3. by a lively faith a man is made a living member of jesus christ , and hath internall communion with him by the intire profession of christian faith joyned with conformity of life in righteousnesse , and holinesse , and fellowship of love , he is a member of the visible congregation or flock of christ , though no set member of a free distinct independant societie . and baptisme is the seale of our admission into the congregation or flock of christ ; but not evermore of our receiving into this or that particular societie as set members thereof . this latter is accidentall to baptisme , not essentiall . it may fall out to be so , but it is not ever necessarie ; nor is the sacrament to be denyed , nor can we say it is imperfectly administred where it cannot be attained . for the catholique church is one intire bodie , made up by the collection and agregation of all the faithfull unto the unity thereof ; from which union there ariseth unto every one of them such a relation to , dependance upon that church catholique as parts use to have in respect of the whole . and this holds true , not onely of sound beleevers in respect of internall fellowship with christ their head , and so one with another ; but of all men professing the true and intire doctrine of faith and salvation in respect of them that hold and professe the same faith of christ , and worship god according to his will ; whereupon it followeth that neither particular persons , nor particular guides , nor particular churches are to worke as severall divided bodies by themselves , but are to teach , and be taught ; and to do all other duties as parts conjoyned to the whole , and members of the same flock or societie in generall : and so beleevers professing the faith , and walking in holinesse , may and ought to be admitted to the seales as actuall members of the church of christ , and sheep of his pasture , though not set members of one congregationall church . 4. not to insist upon this here , that it hath and may fall out many times through ignorance , rathnesse , or pride , of a prevailing faction in the church , that the true members of the catholique church , and the best members of the orthodox visible flock , or church of christ , may be no actuall members of any distinct societie , and shall they for this be accounted men out of covenant , and their posteritie be esteemed aliens and strangers : but if they be in covenant , then are they holy in respect of the covenant , and their children holy as pertaining to the covenant , and have right to the sacrament of initiation . thus mr. rob. frameth the argument . the sacrament of baptisme is to be administred by christs appointment , and the apostles example onely to such as are ( externally , and so far as men can judge ) taught and made disciples , do receive the word gladly , do beleeve , and so professe , have received the holy ghost , and to their seed . and thus the church of god ever since the apostles dayes understood the covenant and promise , and their practise in receiving beleevers and their seed to the seales of the covenant was answerable , as might be shewed at large , if it was not a thing confessed . hereunto you answer . answer . vvhere the holy ghost is given and received ( which was the case of the centurion ) and where faith is professed according to gods ordinance ( which was the case of the rest ) there none may hinder them from being baptised , viz. by such as have power to baptise them . in the instances given baptisme was administred either by apostles or evangelists , not ordinary pastors : the persons baptised , if they were members of churches , had a right to baptisme in their state , and the apostles being officers of all churches might dispense the seales to them where ever they came , which yet will not warrant ordinary officers to do the same . nor is it improbable but that all these were in church-order , aret , on act. 18. 1. is of opinion , that the centurion had a constituted church in his house ; the eunuches coming to jerusalem to worship , argueth him to be a proselyte , and member of the jewish church not yet dissolved : and therefore upon the profession of the christian faith capable of church priviledges at that time . as for lydia and the gaylor it appeareth that in the beginning of the gospel there was a church at philipp● which communicated with paul as concerning giving and receiving : as he expresly saith , before his departure was from macedonia , which departure was immediately upon the gaylors conversion . in which respect what should hinder that lydia and the gaylor should first be joyned to the church , and then to be baptised though it be not mentioned in that story ? as neither there is mention of a christian church , which paul mentioneth in his epistle to the philippians . at least it is probable that lydia was a member of the jewish church , because she is said to be one that worshipped god. but if any man think they were not members of any church yet baptised , though we see not how it will be proved , yet if it were so , the object doth no whit weaken the argument , which speaketh of the ordinary dispensation of the seales , and not of what was done in an extraordinary way . so that suppose that in the cases alledged , baptisme dispensed to some that were not in church-fellowship , yet the examples of the apostles and evangelists in so doing will not warrant ordinary pastors to do the like . the reason of the difference why apostles and evangelists might administer baptisme out of church-order , whereas pastors and teachers may not , is double . 1. because their calling gave them illimited power over all men , especially christians wheresoever they came . but we do not find that ordinarie pastors and teachers can do an act of power , but onely over their own church , which hath called them to watch over them in the lord. 2. because they were assisted with an immediate direction and guidance of the holy ghost , in the places of their administration in the cases alledged . but ordinary church-officers are to walke according to ordinary rules of the scripture in the dispensation of the seales , and not to expect immediate inspirations and extraordinary revelations for their helpe in such cases . this difference between apostles and ordinary church officers must needs be acknowledged , or otherwise a man might from their example justifie baptisme in private houses . reply . this answer stands of many parts , wherein things doubtfull are affirmed , and that which more weakeneth the force of the consideration before alledged , and the answer it selfe , then of the reason whereunto it is applyed . for first , if where the holy ghost is given and received , and where faith is professed according to gods ordinance , there none may hinder them from being baptized , viz. by such as have power to baptize them : then either men that have received the holy ghost , and professe the faith , be members of the church , or baptisme is not a priviledge of the church , then it is not essentiall to the first institution of baptisme , that it should be dispenced to none but such as were entered into church-fellowship , or were set members of a congregationall assembly . then the apostles in dispensing the seales unto such , or commanding them to be dispenced , did walk according to the rules of scripture , and upon grounds common to them and us , viz. they admitted them unto the sacraments who had right and interest to them , according to the minde and pleasure of the institutor , not extraordinarily revealed , besides the common rules , or by speciall dispensation and prerogative excepted from the common rule , but made knowne in the institution it selfe . and then the difficultie remaining is onely this , whether a pastor or teacher hath authority from christ to dispence the seales of the covenant to one who hath right and title to them , and doth orderly desire that benefit because he is not as yet received as a set member of that particular societie which your practise in admitting of set members of other congregations unto the seales doth manifestly convince . for if both have equall interest unto the seales , the pastor upon lawfull suite and request hath equall authoritie to receive the one as well as the other . secondly , in the particular instances given , it is not probable that baptisme was evermore administred by apostles or evangelists ; for before the death of christ , the disciples baptized when they were properly neither apostles nor evangelists : after the death of christ ( not to insist upon conjectures whether any assisted the apostles in the baptizing of the first three thousand converted ) it is not certaine , whether peter baptized cornelius and his family , or commanded others then present with him to baptize them : the words may be read : et jussit eos baptizari in nomine domini . syr. & arab. praecepit eis ut baptizarentur . the interlineary glosse leaveth it doubtfull , associis suis vel a scipso . others are of opinion that peter did baptize them himselfe . it cannot be proved that philip and ananias were both evangelists , when the one baptized the samaritans and the eunuch , the other paul. paul himselfe baptized but a few as he testifieth of himselfe , and reason to convince that others converted by his preaching were baptized by evangelists , we know not any . and if philip , ananias , and others might baptize such as had right and title to the seales , being as yet no set members of any particular congregation : and a congregation destitute of their proper pastor , may desire another to baptize their infants , and dispence the sacrament of the supper to them in that their necessitie . and if the members of one congregation may lawfully communicate in another , then may the pastors of particular congregations upon occasion admit to the seales of the covenant such known and approved christians , as have right and title thereunto , and duely and orderly require the same ; for of all these the reason is like and perpetuall . thirdly , it is very improbable that the persons baptized , were in church-state or order . if they were members of the jewish church not yet dissolved , this is not to the purpose ; for men have not right to baptisme , because they were members of the jewish church , but because disciples and ( as you say ) joyned together in covenant , and have fellowship and calling of their minister , who is to dispence the seales unto them . and baptisme is the sacrament of initiation , not into the jewish but the christian churches . secondly , when you say , the seales in ordinary dispensation are the priviledges of the churches . there are no ministers but of particular churches . baptisme and the lords supper are to be administred onely to the members of the church . no societie may lawfully desire the seales , unlesse they have joyned in the choice and calling of their minister . beleevers not yet joyned in church-order are without . doe yee not in all these understand a christian societie , united in a church-way , &c. which cannot agree to the members of the jewish church , not yet dissolved . thirdly , the constitution of the church ( saith mr. robin . ) is the orderly collection and conjunction of the saints into and in the covenant of the new testament ; but the members of jewish churches not yet dissolved , were not in such constitution . if the eunuch and centurion were proselytes and members of the church of the jewes ; the samaritanes whom philip baptized were not so . and that any gentiles , or the gailor whom paul baptized in the apostles times , were set members of a christian assembly before baptized , is very strange if there was a church at philippi , yet the gailor who was baptized and converted the same night , could not be a set member by solemne admission before baptisme . it is said the apostles baptized these persons in an extraordinary way . but in this practise of the apostles two things are to be considered . 1. the circumstance of the action . 2. the qualitie or substance of the act . in some circumstances the baptizing of some of these persons might be extraordinary , but the substance and qualitie of the action was grounded upon rules perpetuall and common to us with them . 1. that is done in an extraordinary way , which by peculiar priviledge of dispensation is made lawfull to some one or few men , which is unlawfull to all others , not having the same dispensation , but where the ground and reason of the action is common : we must not conceive the thing to be done in an extraordinary way by speciall dispensation . what was done by the apostles upon speciall revelation and immediate direction , besides the ordinary and common rule , in that wee are not to immitate or follow them , because we have not their warrant . but what they did upon reasons and grounds reaching unto us no lesse then unto them , in that we have the same libertie , allowance , or commandement that they did walk by . in one and the same action there may be and oft is something ordinary , something extraordinary or peculiar to speciall times or persons . so it was in the apostles administration of the seales : but in every place where they came by illimited power ( as you speake ) they did baptize disciples , if they did baptize ; this was proper to them , and could not be communicated to any others by them ; for there is no passage of scripture which teacheth this , that one officer may communicate his power to another , or doe that which particularly belongeth to his office by a deputie : but that they baptized beleevers professing their faith in the lord jesus , and repentance towards god , such as had gladly imbraced the word , and received the gifts of the holy ghost : this was common to them with all pastors and teachers , because they did it , not by power illimited or speciall dispensation , but upon this standing perpetuall reason , that the promise was made to them and to their seede , and to as many as the lord shall call , that they had received the holy ghost , and the kingdome of heaven belonged to them . and if the grounds and reasons of their practise be common reaching to us , no lesse then unto them , the practise it selfe was not extraordinary . to say nothing that this answer will not stand with the former ; for if the parties baptized were set members of particular societies , the apostles did not baptize them in an extraordinary way , they did it by the guidance and direction of the spirit , that is true , but not by guidance of dispensation , or prerogative , whereby that was made lawfull without such inspiration had been unlawfull . but they were infallibly guided to doe that which was according to the word of god , and might stand for our direction : that in case it be orderly desired a pastor hath authoritie in his owne congregation , to receive knowne and approved christians to the seales of the covenant , hath been proved before . if the apostles dispenced the seales onely to the church , disciples , faithfull , who received the doctrine of salvation with gladnesse of heart , and were partakers of the holy ghost , then they dispenced the seales in an ordinary way , for such have title and interest to the seales by the institution and appointment of god. and every pastor by his office may and ought to dispence the seales unto such , within the bounds and limits of his calling : but the apostles dispenced the seales onely to the church , disciples , faithfull , &c. 2. an argument followeth necessarily from particular example to a generall ; when one particular is proved by another particular , by force of the similitude common to the whole kinde , under which those particulars are contained : but the practise of the apostles in baptizing disciples and faithfull , by force of similitude common to the whole kinde , agreeth with the practise of ministers receiving to baptisme the seed of the faithfull , though as yet not set members of any particular societie , in some circumstances there may be difference when yet the reason is strong , if the difference be not in the very likenesse it selfe whereupon the reason is grounded . one circumstance that is materiall to the point may overthrow the likenesse pretended , and twenty different circumstances , if they be not to the point in hand make no dissimilitude . now in this matter wee speake of , no circumstance is or can be named why we should thinke it lawfull for the apostles to baptize disciples as yet being no set members of particular societies , and the same should be unlawfull in all cases for ordinary pastors in their particular congregations , though it be desired . 3. what is done by extraordinary dispensation , that is lawfull for them onely who have received such dispensation , and by them cannot be communicated to others . but the apostles baptized by others seldome by themselves , as hath been shewed . 4. we might urge the rule which a reverend elder among you , giveth in another matter , ( scil . ) those examples which are backed with some divine precept , or which are held forth in the first institution of an ordinance , being part of the institution , or which were the constant lawfull actions of holy men in scripture , not civill but sacred so binde us to imitation , as that not to conforme thereunto is sinne . for the assumption to this proposition , it is plaine and naturall : but the practise of the apostles in receiving the faithfull , disciples , &c. is backed with divine precept , held forth in the first institution , and was their constant lawfull practise , agreeable to the practise of all others who were imployed in that service ; ergo , &c. 5. in the first consideration , you prove the seales to be the priviledge of the church in ordinary dispensation , by this passage of scripture , then they that gladly received the word were baptized : but if apostles baptize by extraordinary dispensation in your sense this testimony is insufficient for that purpose . 2 reason . our second reason . in due order , the seales belong to them to whom the grant is given , viz. baptisme to the seed of the faithfull , and the lords supper to beleevers , able to try and examine themselves : but the grant is vouchsafed to the faithfull and their seed , forgivenesse of sinnes , sanctification , adoption , and what other good things are promised in the covenant of grace are the grant or good things sealed in the sacrament . but those are granted to beleevers according to the covenant ; and they are so linked together , that under one promised all are understood ; and if one be vouchsafed , none is denied . when god promiseth to circumcise the heart , the forgivenesse of sinnes is implyed . and when circumcision is said to be the seale of the righteousnesse of faith , the circumcision of the heart by spirituall regeneration is included . to whomsoever then the spirituall gift , or inward grace of the covenant is given and granted , to them the seales of that gift and grant doth belong in their due order . but the spirituall gift or grace which is the thing signified in the sacrament , is freely granted to true beleevers , who have received the doctrine of salvation , and walk in the wayes of truth and righteousnesse , therefore the priviledges of the seales belong unto them . to this you answer . the scope of the apostle in the place , rom. 4. 11. is not to define a sacrament , nor to shew what is the proper and adequate subject of the sacrament ; but to prove by the example of abraham that a sinner is justified before god , not by works but by faith . thus as abraham the father of the faithfull was justified before god , so must his seed be ( that is , all beleevers whether jews or gentiles , circumcised or uncircumcised ) for therefore abraham received circumcision which belonged to the jews to confirm the righteousnesse which he had before , while he was uncircumcised , that he might be the father of both : but lest any one should think his circumcision was needlesse if he was justified by faith before circumcision ; he addeth that his circumcision was of no use as a seale to confirme to him his faith , and the righteousnesse which is by faith : yet as justification is not the onely thing that circumcision sealed , but the whole covenant also made with abraham and his seed was sealed thereby ; so abraham is to be considered in using circumcision not simply , or onely as a beleever without church relation , but as a confederate beleever , and so in the state and order of a visible church . though the apostle maketh mention of the righteousnesse of faith as sealed thereby , which was not that which served for his purpose . now that circumcision also sealed the church-covenant , may appear from gen. 17. 9. 10 , 11. where you may find that abraham and his seed , though beleevers , were not circumcised till god called them into church-covenant ; and there is the same reason & use of baptisme to us which serveth to seal our justification as circumcision did , yet not that alone , but also the whole covenant with all the priviledges of it , as adoption , sanctification , and fellowship with christ in affections , and the salvation of our souls , and the resurrection of our bodies . and not onely the covenant of grace which is common to all beleevers : but church-covenant 1 cor. 15. 19. covenant also which is peculiar to confederates . according to that of the apostle , by one spirit we are baptized into one body , 1 cor. 12. 13. and by one bodie he meaneth that particular church of corinth whereunto he writeth and saith , now ye are the body of christ , and members in particular , ver . 27. and ergo church-membership is required as well to the orderly partaking of baptisme as it was of circumcision . nor do we find that circumcision was administred to all that were in the covenant of grace ( as all beleevers were ) but onely to such of them as were joyned to the people of the god of abraham . melchizedech was under the covenant of grace , so was lot , so was job and his foure friends ; yet we no where read that they were circumcised , nor do beleeve they were . so that if circumcision was administred to none but those that were joyned together in abrahams familie , and to the church of god in his seed , then may not baptisme in ordinarie course be administred to any beleevers now , unlesse they be joyned to the church of christ , for parum par est ratio . but the first is true , ergo , the second also . reply . the particulars in this answer hath been examined alreadie , and might have well been passed over , because it is tedious to repeat the same things againe and againe . two things are affirmed by you . 1. that the scope of the apostle , rom. 4. 11. was not to define a sacrament , nor to shew what was the proper and adequate subject of a sacrament . but this weakneth no part of the argument , for if the apostle do not fully define a sacrament , nor mention every particular benefit or prerogative sealed in the sacrament ; yet he sheweth sufficiently to whom the sacraments in due order do appertaine , even to the heires of salvation , to them that are justified by faith , and walk in the steps of our father abraham . and thus we argue from the text of the apostle . they that are partakers of the good things sealed in the sacrament , to them belong the seales of the covenant , according to gods institution . but they that are justified by faith are partakers of the good things sealed in the sacrament , to them belong the seales of the covenant according to gods institution . if justification be not the onely thing that circumcision sealed , this is nothing to the point in hand . for the gifts of the holy ghost is not the onely thing that is sealed in baptisme : but you confesse in your answer immediately going before , that they have right to baptisme who have received the holy ghost ; and the reason is the same of justification . besides if justification be not the onely thing that is sealed in the sacrament , it is one principall thing which doth inferre the rest . for the blessings of the covenant of grace in christ are inseparable ; where one is named , others are implyed : and where one is given , no one is absolutely wanting . christ is made of god wisedome , righteousnesse , sanctification , and redemption : whom god doth justifie , them he doth sanctifie , and them he will glorifie . 2. the second thing you affirme is , that not onely the covenant of grace which is common to all beleevers ; but church-covenant also which is peculiar to confederates is necessarie to the participation of the seales . this sense your words must beare , or else they reach not the point in hand : but this is that which should be proved substantially , and not barely affirmed ; and which ( as we conceive ) is contrary to the first institution of the sacrament , and the lawfull practise of john the baptist , our saviour christ , his apostles , and all others who are recorded lawfully to administer the seales . in gen. 17. we find the first institution of circumcision recorded , and that it was the seale of the covenant to abraham and his seed , to them that were borne in his house , or bought with his money : but we find no mention of any church covenant besides the covenant of promise which god made with abraham . there is no mention of any church-order into which abrahams family was now gathered more then formerly . god gave circumcision to abraham and his seed as a seale of the righteousnesse of faith ; but that this family was first gathered into church-order as you speak we cannot beleeve , because the scripture saith it not whether lot , job , melchizedech were circumcised or not , we will not dispute ; but if they received not the seale , we cannot think the reason to be because they were not in church-order as those times required , if any such thing had been required , we cannot think that either they were ignorant of it , or that they walked against their light : but accordiug to the dispensing of those times we judge as they were visible beleevers , so they walked in that church fellowship which god prescribed ; and therefore if circumcision had been the seale of such church-covenant as you conceive , it should have been given to them no lesse then to abrahams family . but of this sufficient is said before . as for baptisme it is the seal of the whole covenant , which the passages quoted prove it to be . whether it be the seale of our fellowship which christ in affliction , and the resurrection of our bodies , we leave it to your consideration : but that it should be a seal of a church-covenant which is peculiar to confederates , that to us is very strange . that it is a solemne admission into the church of christ , and that of necessitie it must be administred in a particular societie ( though in the passage to the corinthians the mysticall bodie of christ be understood ) will easily be granted . but that it is the seale of any other covenant but the covenant of grace we cannot digest . the sacraments are of god , and we must learne of god for what end and use they were ordained . but by the institution of baptisme recorded in scripture we have learned it belongeth to the faithfull , to disciples , to them that are called of god : and as for any other covenant necessarie to the right participation of the seales , there is deep silence of it in the institution , in the lawfull and approved practise of the first dispensers of these sacred mysteries . enough hath been said to this matter alreadie , but we will conclude it with the words of that reverend author whom we have cited many times before upon occasion . afterwards ( saith he ) john the baptist walked in the same steps , and by the same rule administred baptisme in the church whereof he was a member , required of all that came to his baptisme a profession of repentance , and amendment of life for remission of sinnes whereof baptisme was a seale , and preached christ to them . this order our lord jesus christ after his resurrection established to continue in the christian churches , giving a commission to his disciples to preach the gospel to the gentiles , and to gather all such as should beleeve through the world , as a testimonie to them , that the righteousnesse of faith did belong to them also , and not to the church of the jews onely . accordingly the apostles and servants of christ were carefull to observe this rule in their administring baptisme . thus peter when he saw those three thousand souls pricked in their hearts , preached unto them concerning repentance , remission of sin , christ , the promise , baptisme , faith , amendment of life , baptised those that gladly received his word , and testified the same by joyning together in the prosession thereof . the same course philip took with the church that was gathered in samaria , where many were baptized , but none till they professed their beliefe of the gospel , and their receiving of the word of god. and therefore it is said expresly , when they beleeved philip preaching the things concerning the kingdome of god , and the name of jesus christ , they were baptised both men and women . when ananias was commanded to go and baptise paul , he objected against it at first , till the lord assured him that he was one to whom the seale of the covenant belonged , and then he went and did it . when peter and those that came with him saw that the holy ghost fell on cornelius , and those that were assembled at that time in his house , whilest he spake these words , to him give all the prophets witnesse , that through the name of jesus whosoever beleeveth on him shall receive remission of sinnes . peter demanded , can any man forbid water that these should not be baptised , which have received the holy ghost as well as we ? in this catalogue we see profession of faith and repentance required in them that were admitted to partake in the seals ; but there is not a word of church-covenant , either in the institution or administration of the seales before they were admitted to them . that christians are solemnly ingrafted into the body of christ , and into particular societies by the seales , is a truth acknowledged on all sides : but that ever it was deemed necessarie , that a christian should be a set member of a particular congregationall church before he were admitted to the seales , or that by divine institution any such thing is ordained as necessarie thereunto , that upon the grounds before mentioned we denie , and cannot account it lesse then an addition to the institution . for if the sacraments be seales of the covenant of grace , and baptisme by divine institution belong to disciples , faithfull , saints , who have gladly received the word of grace , are justified by faith , sanctified by the spirit , adopted to be the children of god by grace , and heires apparent to the kingdom of heaven ; then to debarre such from the seales , and their seed from baptisme , because they be not in church-covenant ( as you speake ) is an addition to the ordinance of grace , and many wayes injurious to the people of god. v. position . that the power of excommunication is so in the body of the church , that what the major part shall allow must be done , though the pastors and governors and the rest of the assembly be of another minde , and that peradventure upon more substantiall reasons . answer . if the question had been , whether the power of excommunication lies in the body of the congregation , consisting of officers and members ; our answer should be affirmative , and according hereunto is also our practise , and wee hope your judgement and ours are not different herein : but seeing the question is , whether it is so in the body of the congregation , that what the major part doth allow that must be done , though the pastors and governors , and the rest of the assembly , doe dissent upon more substantiall reasons . our answer is negative , viz. that the power of excommunication is not sealed in the congregation , neither ought it to be so in any of the churches of the lord jesus , who ought not to carry matters by number of votes against god , as this position implyeth , but by strength of rule and reason according to god. the power of the apostles was not to doe things against the truth but for the truth , 2 cor. 13. 8 and not for destruction , but for edification , 2 cor. 10. 8. and the same may be said concerning the power which god hath given to the church , and if any church among us have swerved from the rule ( which is more then we know ) we doe not allow them in such a practise , but should be ready as the lord should helpe to convince them of their sin therein . reply . this question is much mistaken , for the demand is not whether in the congregation matters should be carryed by number of votes against god , as you interpret the position , but whether the power of excommunication so lye in the body of the congregation as that sentence must proceed in externoforo , according to the vote and determination of the major part , and so whether power of admission of members doe so reside in the communitie , as that they must be refused whom the major part refuse , though the pastors and governors and part of the congregation be of another judgement , and he admitted whom the major part doth approve . and though the church hath received no power against god , but for god , yet in the execution of the power no doubt the members of that church may be of different judgements and affections , wherein the one side or other doth erre , and is deceived . now the question hereupon moved is , whether the power of the keyes be so given and committed to the society of the faithfull , as that in externall court that act or sentence must stand and be in force which the greater part shall determine amongst them which hold the power of the keyes to be given to the church . some a distinguish betwixt the power it self which they give to the church , and the execution and exercise of it , which they confine to the presbytery : b others give the power of the keyes with the exercise thereof to the whole body of the church , or if in the dispensation they attribute any thing to the officers , it is but as servants of the church , from whom they derive their authoritie . by church also some understand the communitie of the faithfull , together with their officers and guides . and here lyeth the stone at which they of the seperation stumble , and which we conceive to be your judgement and practise , wherein we required your plaine answer , with your reasons , but have received no satisfaction . you referre us to mr. parkers reasons to prove the power of the keyes to belong to the whole church , who are of farre different judgement from mr. parker in the point it selfe . and if your judgement and practise be according to that of the seperation ( which we feare ) you dissent from him , and we cannot but dissent from you upon these considerations . 1. no power agreeth to the multitude or communitie of the faithfull , but that which is given them of the lord by his positive law ; for the whole spirituall power for the gathering and government of his church is given to christ as mediator . and if the power of the keyes be derived from , and communicated by christ unto his church , of necessitie it must draw its originall from divine positive law , and can agree to none but as it is communicated . but the communicated power of the keyes with the execution thereof , christ hath not given immediately to the whole multitude , but to some persons and officers designed and appointed thereunto . peruse the severall passages of scripture , wherein power and authoritie of preaching the gospel , administring the sacraments , binding and loosing is given to the church : and it is apparent that distinct severall persons are spoken of , and not the whole communitie ; goe teach all nations , and baptize them , &c. whose sinnes yee remit , they are remitted , &c. feed my lambes , feed my sheepe , &c. were these things spoken to the whole communitie , or to speciall persons ? 2. if christ gave this power to the communitie , was it from the beginning of the church , or tooke it effect after the churches were planted and established by the apostles . not the first , for then the apostles themselves should derive their power from the communitie and societie of the faithfull , which they did not , but from christ immediately , both in respect of gifts and graces , their calling it selfe , and the designation of their persons . it is said the power of the keyes given to the apostles was given to the church , in tuitu ejusdem tanquam finis & totius . and it is true the apostles were given to the church , and the power they received was for the good of the whole ; but this is not enough . that power may be said to be received immediately by the church , as the first receptacle of it , and from it derived to others . but this power must be in the communitie as the first subject , from whom it commeth to the officers . as the power of seeing is not onely given in tuitu hominis , as the end of it , and the totum to whom it agreeth , but is in homine as the first subject from which it commeth to the eyes . the apostles and other governors were given of christ for the church as for their end , and all their authoritie was given unto them for the church as for the whole : but the authoritie it selfe was immediately derived from christ , and is not in the church as the immediate subject , nor derived from the church , but from christ the king of the church . the authoritie of governors is given of christ for a gift to the church , but not for a gift absolute , that it may reside in the power of the whole church , to whom it is given , but for a conditionall gift communicated to the governors themselves for the good of the whole . it is one thing then to aske for what end or use the keyes are given , another to whom . to every one is given the declaration of the spirit for profit , i. e. for the good of the church . but was this gift given to the communitie of the faithfull first and immediately ? no ; by gift and possession it was given to some , but for use and profit it was publick . after the churches were established it tooke not effect ; for then it must be shewed where christ committed the power of god , first to the apostles , and after to the communitie of the faithfull . but that is no where to be found in holy scripture . the ministers and guides of the church were immediately of jesus christ , from whom immediately they derive their power and authoritie , by whom they are set over their charge , in whose name they must execute their office , whose stewards , legates and ambassadors they are , and unto whom they must give an account . yea , pastorship is the gift of christ no lesse then apostleship , and that the more because it is perpetuall in the church ; every pastor is not immediately called , but the office and order of pastors , the calling , authoritie and jurisdiction is immediately from christ , and not from the church : the steward is appointed of the master of the family alone , and hath all his authoritie and jurisdiction from him : every ambassador in the cause of his ambassage doth immediately depend upon him from whom he is sent . but if the function , order and authoritie of pastors and teachers , be immediately from christ , then it is not received from the church as the immediate receptacle . thus protestant divines dispute against papists . if bishops receive their power and authority of exercising immediately from christ , by mandate , mission , and commission from him , then they derive it not from the pope . and if presbyters receive their order jurisdiction and power of execution from christ by his mandate and commission , then they receive it not from the bishop . and by the same reason , if the power of the keyes be the immediate gift of christ to his ministers , then they derive not their power and authoritie from the people . it is usually objected that the church cannot convey what she never had , but the people may elect their pastor . whereunto the answer is direct and plaine . nothing can give that which it had not formally or virtually , unlesse it give it as an instrument ministring to one who hath it , but so it may give what it never had , nor is capable of . a steward may give all the offices in his masters house , as ministerially executing his masters pleasure . electors have not evermore authoritie over him whom they elect : but power and authoritie onely to apply that power to him whom they choose . the power and authoritie whereunto a minister is elected , is not in the people that elect him , but from christ the king and head of his church , who out of power doth conferre that office upon him . if we consider what men give , or give not universally , it must be deemed that any men can make ministers , because they give not the office , gifts , or authoritie , which are from christ alone . 3. if ecclesiasticall and spirituall power be in the multitude and community of the faithfull , the church doth not onely call , but make officers out of power and vertue received into her selfe , and then should the church have a true lordlike power in regard of her ministers . for as he that will derive authority to the church maketh himselfe lord of the church : so if the church derive authoritie to the ministers of christ , she maketh herself lady and mistris over them in the exercise of that authoritie over them . for all men know it is the property of the lord and master to impart authoritie . did the church give power and authoritie to the pastors and teachers , she might make the sacraments and preaching which one doth in order no sacraments , no preaching . for it is the order instituted of god that gives being and efficacie to these ordinances . and if the power of ruling , feeding , and dispensing the holy things of god , do reside in the faithfull , the word and sacraments in respect of dispensation and efficacie shall depend upon the order and institution of the societie . if the power of the keyes be derived from the community of the faithfull , then are officers immediately and formally servants to the church , and must do every thing in the name of the church , rule , feed , bind , loose , remit and retaine sinnes , preach and administer the sacraments , then they must performe their office according to the direction of the church more or lesse , seldome or frequent , remisse or diligent . for from whom are they to receive direction how to carry themselves in their office but from him or them from whom they receive their office , whose works they do , and from whom they expect their reward ? if their power and office be of god immediately , they must do the duties of their place according to his designement , and to be accountable unto god : but if their power and function be from the church , the church must give account unto god , and the officers unto the church whom she doth take to be her helpers . if it be said that god will have the church to chuse officers to execute the power committed unto her . the answer is , either god will have her elect officers of his designement to do his work according to that power which he shall give them , and by his direction , and then they are god servants , and not the churches , and receive their charge and function immediately from god , and not from the people : or he leaveth it to the arbitriment of the church , to chuse according to their pleasure such as must receive charge and authoritie from her . and then they must execute their office in her name so as shall seeme good unto the church , and neither longer nor otherwise . for if the ministers of the church be subject to god and christ by the intervention of the people onely , they have it from them , and not from god : but they preach or administer the sacraments , rule , or feed , and if they depend immediately upon the faithfull , viz. two or three gathered together in covenant , they must draw what in order they are to preach unto them in the name of the lord ; for from him must the ambassadour learne his arrand from whom he receiveth his commission . we forbeare to presse the a confessions and reasons of such as maintaine this opinion , that the officers of christ be both of and for the people , and that in relation as the officers are called servants , the church may be called lord. 4. moreover if the power of the keyes be given first and immediately to the community of the faithfull , what reason can be alledged why in defect of officers the church might not rule , governe , feed , bind , loose , preach and administer the sacraments , or if any faile in any office , why she might not supply that want by her power . for the power of the keyes doth containe , both authority and exercise , power being given to this end , that it might be exercised as it is vouchsafed . but the church when she is destitute of officers , cannot exercise those acts of rule , nor by her power supply the want of any officer . onely she hath a ministery of calling one whom christ hath described , that from christ he may have power of office given him in the vacant place . for these reasons ( not to insist on any more ) we judge the multitude or community of the faithfull not to be the immediate receptacle of ecclesiasticall authoritie , and so the power of excommunication not to belong to them . if consent of the churches of god be asked in this point ( to omit others ) the churches of scotland speake fully and expresly for us , in the second book of disci . cap. 1. the church as it is taken for them that exercise spirituall functions in the congregation of them that professe the truth , hath a certain power granted by god according to which , it useth a proper jurisdiction and government exercised to the comfort of the whole flocke . power is an ecclesiasticall authority granted by god the father through the mediator jesus christ unto his kirke , gathered , and having its ground in the word of god , and to be put in execution by them unto whom the spirituall government of the church by lawfull calling is committed . the policie of the kirke flowing from this power is an order or spirituall forme of government which is exercised by the members appointed thereto by the word of god , and therefore is given immediately to the office-bearers by whom it is exercised to the weale of the whole body . vt universam scripturam evolvat d. erastus , nunquam tamen inventurum verba ligandi , & solvendi aliis quam publico ministerio fungentibus , & quidem met aphoricè , divinae videlicet & spiritualis potestatis respectu , tribui . sunt enim judicialia haec verba . &c. beza de presb. p 60. see helvet . conf . ca. 18. sect. nunc ergo , &c. belgic . confess . art . 3. argentinens . conf . art . 13. bohem. confes . art 14. vi. position . that none are to be admitted as members but they must promise not to depart or remove unlesse the congregation will give leave . answer . our answer hereto is briefly this . we judge it expedient and most according to rule , that such brethren as are in covenant with the church , and ours as fellow-members , and have committed their soules to our charge as ministers , should not forsake our fellowship , nor obruptly breake away from us when and whither they please ; but first approve themselves therein to their brethrens consciences , and take their counsell in so weightie a matter . for which we propound to confider these two reasons following . the former is drawne from the nature of the church-covenant , which consists in these foure particulars . 1. every member at his admission doth openly professe , and solemnly promise , that by christs helpe assisting , he will not onely in generall give up himselfe ( as to the lord to be guided by him , so ) to the church according to god to be directed by it , which is no more then the members of the church of macedonia , did in a parallel case , 2 cor. 8. 5. but also in particular , that he will performe all duties of brotherly love and faithfulnesse to all the members of the body , as of diligent watchfulnesse over all his brethren , thereby to prevent sin , so of faithfull admonition after their falls to regaine them to the lord , from their sinne , the former being injoyned , hebr. 3. 13. and the want thereof deeply condemned in cain , that would not acknowledge that duty of being his brothers keeper , gen. 4. 9. the latter given in charge to the church-members of israel by the hand of moses , levit. 19. 17. and so by christ himself , matth. 18. 15. and by paul also to the galat. c. 6. 1 , 2. secondly , the ingagements are not made onely by the members admitted into the church , but by the church back again to the member . so that thereby the whole church in generall , and every member thereof in particular , stand as well in conscience bound to performe all duties of love and watchfulnesse to him , as he doth to them ; and this we do according to the golden rule of love and equitie injoyned by our saviour , matth. 7. 12. fearing that contrary practise of scribes and pharisees so much condemned by christ , of laying greater burthens upon others , then we our selves are willing to undergo . matth. 23. 4. 3. these promises thus lawfully and mutually made , that member , as also the whole church , are bound not onely every one for himselfe , actively to performe them , but passively also to suffer his brethren to do those offices upon and towards himself : if he neglect the former , he shall falsifie his covenant so solemnly before god , angels , and men made , and so not onely breake promise to his brother , contrary to psal . 15. 4. but also in some sort commit the sinne of ananias and saphira in lying against the holy ghost , condemned and punished severely by gods own hand , act. 5. 3. 5. 10. if he faile in the latter , he shall not onely be guiltie of the same sinne of breach of covenant with god and man as in the former ; but shall also be guilty of this folly of despising counsell so much condemned , prov. 12. 15. and 1. 7. and shall also proclaime this his folly and pride by shewing to all the church that he is wise in his own eyes , and leanes to his own wisedome both reproved , prov. 3. 7. and 23. 4. seeing need of no further light to be held forth by his brethren , then what he apprehends himselfe , which is one of the greatest properties of folly . 4. from all these things premised , it appears that we can do no lesse ( and yet we do no more ) then require a member before he depart according to our covenant thus lawfully , deliberately , and mutually made , to expresse to his brethren his desire of departing , and the place and societie to which he tends , whether to a godly church where he may be edified ; or to some corrupt assembly where he may be destroyed . and 2. his grounds and reasons which move him so to do , which if they hold good being scanned by the word , he may be not onely confirmed in his way by the consent and advise of many , but counselled also how to manage his departure for his best comfort . and so after all , solemnly with the whole churches prayers , and blessings in the name of christ dismissed : but if his grounds either be none at all , or weake and sinfull , and that his desire of departing savours of self-will , inordinate love of gaine , rash precipitancie , or a spirit of schisme , more strongly then of sound reason , then what can we do lesse without breach of covenant , then in love and tendernesse shew him his weaknesse , disswade him from his purpose , and refuse to consent . yet if after all this we see his spirit stedfastly and stiffely bent for a departure , then though we dare not act against our light by consenting or counselling , yet if his finne be not apparent , and danger eminent , we use rather ( through indulgence in cases of like nature ) to suspend our vote against him , as not willing against his will to detain him , abhorring to make our churches places of restraint and imprisonment . but if any should object that this argument holds firme where this church-covenant is allowed to be lawfull , but with some it is questioned , and with them it avails not . ans . some indeed have questioned the necessitie of our church-covenant , but none ( we hope ) of these our reverend brethren that we write unto do question the lawfulnesse of such a covenant being nothing else for the matter of it , but a promise of doing such christian duties as the gospel of christ requires of all saints in church-estate ; for we doe not herein promise to performe any new dutie to our brethren which was not before commanded us of the lord , but onely revive and renew our purposes afresh of performing such duties unto that particular body into which we are then incorporated as were before injoyned in the word , as to love each other , and to watch over each other out of love for their good , to be ready to give counsell to , and to take counsell from each other , to prevent sinne in them , or to gaine them from sinne . all which are plentifully and frequently held forth in the scriptures ; for the defect of which care and watchfulnesse , all the body shall be wrapt in the same guilt & punishment with the member that commits the sinne , as the whole church of israel was in achans sinne and punishment . secondly , it s a thing very reasonable , and a knowne fundamentall rule in all societies , that he that is incorporate thereto , and so participates of the priviledges thereof , should ingage himselfe to conforme to all such lawfull rites and orders as are expedient for the well being of that societie , the contrary whereto will be a thing injurious in him to offer , and confusion to themselves to accept . the second ground is drawne from the necessitie that may fall upon the body if every particular member should depart at his owne pleasure . for as every societie , so much more a church of saints , both from principles of nature and christianitie also , not onely lawfully may , but in dutie are bound to endeavour the preservation of it selfe , and ergo timely to foresee and wisely to prevent all such things as would bring destruction to it selfe . now if any member might , when , whither , and wherefore he please without consent of the church depart away from it , this may by unavoydable consequence dissipate the whole ; for if one man may so depart , why may not another also , though never so usefull in that body , and whose absence might much shake the well-being of it : and if one why not two , six , ten , twent● as well ? for where will yee stop seeing any may plead the same libertie , and if members may so doe why not the pastor and teacher also ? seeing they are tyed to him by the same relation that he is to them , and so the principalls falling , the whole building must downe : and if this may be so in one church , why not in all , and so christ should have no setled church on earth . reply . it is one thing abruptly to breake away when and whither they please , and forsake fellow-ship , another thing not to depart or remove habitation , unlesse the congregation will give leave . also it is one thing mutually to compound and agree not to depart from each other without consent and approbation , another to require a promise of all that be admitted into societie , that they shall not depart without the churches allowance . if such a promise be required of all members to be admitted , we cannot discerne upon what grounds your practise is warranted . first , you exclude all such as be not set members from the sacrament of the supper , and their children from baptisme , and yet hinder them from entrance into church societie , because they cannot promise continuance in the place where they are resident for the present . here we desire to be satisfied from the word of god by what you require it . did the apostles ever stipulate with such as desired to be baptized , that they must abide in particular societie , and not remove thence without approbation from the church ? or did they deny the seales unto them , because they could not make any such promise ? was it ever heard of in the church of god from the beginning thereof unto this day , that any such thing was propounded unto , or required of , members to be admitted into church-fellowship ? that church covenant which is necessary was not in use in the apostles times , but the covenant they entred into bound no man to this condition for ought we reade . they did not prescribe it , no church ever yet covenanted it as necessary to the preservation of the body . secondly , it pertaines not to the whole congregation to take notice of , be acquainted with , or judge of the cause of every particular members removall . may not a servant remove from his master to another congregation ? or the father bestow his sonne or daughter in marriage to one of another congregation , but the whole church must be called to councell in this matter ? if the assembly once grow to be populous , of necessitie they must be negligent in , or weary of such an heavy taske ; and for the present , for every one to challenge so much authoritie over other is usurpation . let it be shewed that ever by divine right this power was committed to the church , and then we will confesse it to be expedient and necessary . but till then we thinke the church is over ridged in exacting such a condition of the members , and the members themselves goe beyond their measure as busi-bodies in other mens matters , and things whereof they are not well able to judge many times , if they arrogate such power unto themselves wee allow not rashnesse , or precipitancy , pride or self-conceitednesse , we know it is meete that weightie matters should be mannaged by councell , but it is not necessary to bring every particular thing to the whole church . in the multitude of councellors there is peace , but over many councellors oft causeth distraction , and different apprehensions breed delayes . the nature of your church-covenant , as you describe it , inferreth not a necessitle of bringing every such businesse unto the church ; for you binde your selves mutually to watch over one another , and in love to admonish one another in the lord , to prevent sinne and to encourage in well-doing , as it concerneth every man within the limits of his place and calling . but this essentially tyeth not any man to a perpetuall residence in one place , for then even occasionall absence should be a breach of covenant , unlesse it be by consent and approbation of the church . you say in your covenant you promise to performe no new dutie to your brethren which was not before commanded of the lord , but onely revive and renew your purposes afresh of performing such duties to that particular body into which you are then to be incorporated , as were before injoyned in the word . but in the word of truth , it is not commanded either expresly or by consequent , that no member of a congregation should remove , or occasionally be absent from the place of his habitation , before he have acquainted the church whither he goeth , and upon what occasions , and whether the place be dangerous , where he is likely to be infected ; or safe , where he may be edified . these things are matters of weight and to be undertaken with advice , but the knowledge thereof belongeth not to every particular member of the societie . and the church shall burden her selfe above measure if she take upon her to intermeddle in all such occasions . neither is it safe to commit the determination of such matters ever to the vote of the multitude , or weight of reasons , as they shall apprehend the matter . and if such businesse must be determined on the lords day , and to goe before the administration of the word , sacraments , and almes , least the holy things be polluted by notorious obstinate offenders , wee feare the time appointed for the exercise of religion shall be prophaned with unseasonable disputes . instances might be alledged , if it were a matter to be insisted upon . as for the covenant it selfe which you mutually enter into , if therein you exact nothing but what god requires both for tryall and stipulation , far be it that we should disallow it , but if yee constraine men to meddle with things that belong not to them , and winde them up higher then god would , and straine every thing to the pitch that you seeme here to doe in this branch a godly and sober minde may well pause before he make such promise . all members of the church are not equally necessary to the preservatiō of the whole body ; & if to the removall of some , it were expedient to have the cōsent , not only of the whole society , but of neighbouring societies , ministers especially , it is very much to draw this to the removall or abode of every particular member . and if any man shall not intermeddle with every businesse of this kinde , as questioning whether it doth belong to him or no , or not aske the advice of the whole societie , as knowing the most to be unfit to counsell in such a case , doth he break his covenant therein , and so commit a sinne in a sort like the sinne of ananias and saphira ? judge your selves if in other cases you would not censure this to be an high incroachment upon christian libertie , and a strict binding of mens consciences by humane constitutions . may you not expect to heare from your own grounds that herein you have devised an expedient , or necessary rite or custome to preserve the unitie , and prevent the dissolution of the body , which never came into the minde of the lord jesus , the saviour of the church , and that in so doing ( if your exposition will hold good ) you breake the second commandement . rites and customes expedient to prevent confusion for the time , let them be observed as customes expedient , and what god requires in the examination or admission of members , let that take place according to the presidents given in the scriptures , and the constant practise of the universall church in the purest times . but to presse customes onely expedient for the time , as standing rules necessary at all times , and for all persons , to put that authoritie into the hands of men which god never put upon them , to oblige men to intermeddle further in the affaires of men , then the word doth warrant , to binde the conscience , and that under so heavy a penalty as the sinne of ananias and saphira , where god hath not bound it , and to debarre known and approved christians from the seales of the covenant , because they cannot promise as setled members to abide and stay in the societie , unlesse they shall obtaine leave of the congregation to depart , and to charge them in the meane season to be men , who against light refuse subjection to the gospel ; this is that which we cannot approve , which yet wee suspect will follow from your judgement , and desire to be resolved of in your practise . and here we intreat leave to put you in minde of that which you have considered already , schil . that the church and every member thereof hath entred into covenant , either expresly or implicitely to take god for their god , and to keepe the words of the covenant and doe them , to seeke the lord with all their hearts , and to walke before him in truth and uprightnesse : but we never finde that they were called to give account of the worke of grace wrought in their soules , or that the whole congregation were appointed to be judge thereof . you stand all of you this day ( saith moses ) before the lord your god , &c. that thou shouldst enter into covenant with the lord thy god. all the people that were borne in the wildernesse joshua circumcised , but it is incredible to thinke that among that great multitude , there was not one who did not give good testimony of the worke of grace in his soule : we reade often times that israel after some grievous fall and revolt , renewed their covenant , to walke with god , to serve him onely , and to obey his voyce , as in the dayes of joshua , the judges , david , samuel : also joash , josiah , and nehemiah , &c. but no particular enquiry was made , what worke of grace god had wrought in the hearts of every singular person . but the confession and profession of obedience was taken . when john baptist began to preach the gospel , and gather a new people for christ , he admitted none to baptisme but upon confession of their sinnes ; but we reade of no question that he put forth unto them to discover the worke of grace in their soules , or repelled any that voluntarily submitted themselves upon that pretence . it appeareth many wayes that when the apostles planted churches , they made a covenant between god and the people whom they received . but they received men upon the profession of faith , and promise of amendment of life , without strict in quirie what sound work of grace was wrought in the soul . in after ages , strangers from the covenant were first instructed in the faith , and then baptised upon the profession of faith , and promise to walk according to the covenant of grace . now the profession at first required of all that were received to baptisme was that they beleeved in the father , sonne , and holy ghost . this was the confession of the eunuch when he was baptised , i beleeve that jesus christ is the sonne of god. the creed is honoured of the ancients with glorious titles , as the rule of faith , the summe of faith , the body of faith , the perswasions of faith : but by the creed they understand that rule of faith , and law of faith , and institution of christ which was then given when he was about to ascend into heaven , and commanded his disciples , saying , go teach all nations , &c. it is true , that in after times as occasion required some other articles were added as explanations of the former , to meet with the heresies of the times which began to trouble the church . but for substance of matter in things to be beleeved , the church never required other acknowledgement of them that were to be received into the congregation of christs flock , and admitted into her communion . and for things to be done , or the practicall part , she requireth of them that were to be received to baptisme an abrenuntiation of the devill , the world , and the flesh , with all their sinfull works and lusts . the first principles then of the doctrine of christ being received , and the foresaid profession being made , the apostles , and the church following the example of the apostles , never denied baptisme unto such as sought or desired it . if this be the covenant that members admitted into church-fellowship do enter into , and this be all you require of them whom you receive , you have the practise of the apostles , and the whole church in after ages for your president . but if you proceed further then thus , and put men to declare what worke of grace god hath wrought in their soul , in this or that way , which perhaps is not determined by the word of grace , at least not agreed upon among your selves , we beseech you consider by what authority you do it , and upon what grounds you stand . but we will enter no further upon this matter , because it comes not within the compasse of these positions , and to attribute so much to private letters , as to make them the ground of another dispute we may not . vii . position . that a minister is so a minister of a particular congregation , that if they dislike him unjustly , or leave him , he ceaseth to be a minister . answer . our answer to this consists in two branches . 1. in case a minister be set aside by the church meerly through his own default . 2. by the churches default without any desert of his . in the former case it is evident he ceaseth to be a minister to them any longer , as appears in foure conclusions . 1. it is cleare from the word , that a pastor or teacher in these dayes hath no apostolicall power over all churches , but onely limited to that one church where god hath set him . paul gives not the elders at ephesus a generall commission to go teach all churches , but to go feed that one flock over which the holy ghost hath made them over-seers . act. 20. 28. so peter gives direction to elders to feed that flock of god onely which was among them , and take the over-sight thereof . 1 pet. 5. 2. 2. it is as cleare that all this power of feeding which the minister hath in that church is nextly derived to him from christ by the church , who hath solemnly called him to the work , and promised to obey him therein : for if he have it elsewhere , it must be either from christ immediately , or from some other men deputed by christ to conferre it on him , or he must take it up of himselfe . not the first , for that was proper to the apostles or apostolicall men , therefore paul proving his apostleship , saith he was called not of men , nor by men , but by jesus christ himself . gal. 1. 1. not the second , for we never read in gods word that any ordinary officers , or other besides the church , that had any commission given them from christ to call ministers unto churches . not the third , for no man taketh this honour , viz. of a priest under the law , or of a minister under the gospel , but he that is called of god , hebr. 5. 4. therefore it must needs be from christ by the church . 3. as the church in the name of christ gave this power to a minister to be what he is , and do what he doth amongst them : when such a minister shall make and manifest himself apparently , unworthy , and unfit to discharge the place , which they thus called him unto , so that they may discerne that christ the head of the church hath refused him , from being a minister unto him , they may then upon as good grounds depose him from it , as they called him to it . 4. when a church hath thus in christs name put forth this power of shutting , as before it did of opening to a minister , then he must cease to be a minister unto them any more , for we know no such indelible character imprinted upon a minister , that the ministery ceasing , the minister ceaseth also . 2. in case the church shall without cause , or sufficient weightie cause , rashly or wilfully set him aside whom christ hath set over them , and whom they so solemnly called , and promised before the lord to submit unto , and so abuse their power given them by christ ; it is doubtlesse a very great wrong unto the minister , and sinne against christ himselfe before whom it was done ; and not onely christ himself will take it ill at their hands , for such contempt done to him in his ministers according to christs speech , luke 10. 16. he that rejecteth you , rejecteth me . and gods speech , 1 sam. 8. 7. they have not cast off thee but me . but even other churches also may admonish them . and if they prove obstinate therein , withdraw the right hand of fellowship from them ; and concerning the minister himself thus deposed , seeing it is done not by christ , but by the church without christ , yea against the mind of christ , we conceive though he be by them deprived of the execution of his ministery among them , yet untill he accepts of a call to another people , he doth yet still remain a minister of christ , in whose account ( notwithstanding such deposition ) he hath true right of administration among that people . reply . the question is of ministers unjustly forsaken , or driven from the church or congregation : and your answer is for the most part of ministers set aside or deprived through their own default . we never purposed to speak one word for any unworthy minister whom christ hath put out of office , and therefore your labour to prove that such justly rejected by the church are no longer ministers might well have been saved . but sitting them aside , we will in few words examine your conclusions upon which you bind the certainty of that sentence you passe against them . first , it is certain and clear from the word , that a pastor or teacher neither in these dayes hath , nor in any other age of the church , ought to have apostolicall power over all churches . the apostles had onely power to serve the church with the personall service of their apostleship . but pastorall power of ordinarie ministers or teachers they never had : and if the apostles had not the power of ordinarie ministers , much lesse can pastors receive the power of apostles , for christ gave both the one and the other order . but as the apostles were not pastors of that church to which they preached , and among whom they continued for some space ; no more do pastors become apostles if they preach the word , or dispence the sacraments to another flock or people beside their own , whereof they have the speciall oversight . but of this matter we have spoken before , and of the texts of scripture here alledged , therefore we will not repeat what hath been said alreadie : onely it seemeth somewhat strange , that you should cite those texts of scripture , as if the apostle had said , feed one flock , or feed that flock of god onely . for we find the word ( one ) or ( onely ) neither in the text expresly , nor in the sense for which it is here alledged , viz. as if he might not perform any ministeriall act in another congregation upon any occasion whatsoever . secondly , the power of feeding which the minister hath is neither confined to one societie onely , nor nextly derived to him from christ by the church . the office and authoritie of a pastor is immediately from christ . the deputation of the person which christ hath designed is from the church ministerially , but neither virtually nor formally . the consent of the people is requisite in the election of pastors and teachers we grant , the direction of the elders going before or along with them ; but the authoritie , office , and gift of a pastor is not from the people or elders , but from christ alone . when an apostle was to be chosen in the place of judas , act. 1. 22 , 23. no one had the handling of that businesse , but peter declared unto the brethren present , what an one ought to be taken , and they present two , whereof one was elected by lot . in this example somethings are extraordinarie , for one onely was to be chosen , and that immediately by god himselfe : and somethings ordinarie for our imitation . for if peter would do nothing without consent of the disciples , thenmay not ordinarie elections be passed without consent and approbation of the church , but it is not a popular election , not governed by the fore-direction of elders , which is concluded from this passage of scripture : but a church election by the free consent , and judgement of the faithfull with the fore-leading of the presbyterie . when deacons were to be chosen , act. 6. 1. 6. in the church of jerusalem , it was done by the consent of the church . the mutinie of the hellenists against the hebrews occasioned that election , but was no cause why it was made by free consent . the apostles shew what persons must be chosen , and who ever thought the church was left at libertie to chuse as she please without direction . but in this election the people did first chuse , the apostles onely directing whom the people ought to make choice of : when most commonly the apostles instructed the people , and went before them in the election , and they consented . act. 14. 23. the apostles by consent chose elders , and so in every matter of great importance belonging directly to the whole bodie of the church , whether severally in one congregation , or joyntly in many , the consent of the faithfull by observation of the apostles was required . act. 11. 22. and 15. 22. and 16. 4. 1 cor. 8. 19. but in the primitive times after the apostles , one church might elect and chuse a pastor for another . as ignatius exhorts the phyladelphians , that they would elect a pastor for the church of antioch . and so when the east church was infected with arrianisme , basil . epist . 69. 70. 74. thought it a fit meanes to remove the heresie , if the bishops of italie being sent thither did condemne the heresie , and he imploreth the aid of the bishops of italy , france , and all the east . cyprian saith , all bishops sunt mutuae concordiae glutine copulati : that if any hold heresie the rest should help . it would be too long to reckon up examples which in this case might be produced . if here it be questioned whether your election of the people be essentiall to the calling of a minister : we answer . 1. a thing is essentiall two wayes . first , as absolutely necessarie , so that the thing can have no existence without it . secondly , as necessarie to the integritie of the thing , so that it is maimed without it . againe , either the people be few in number , and simple apt to be led aside , unable to judge of the sufficiencie of their minister , or they be more in number , increased in wisdome , sound in faith , and able to discern betwixt things that differ . in the first sense the election of the people is not necessary or essentiall ; but in the second we cannot say he is no minister that is not chosen by the people , but his calling in that respect is maimed . if the people be few and simple , apt to be deceived , they stand in more need of guidance and direction , both from their own elders , and other churches . if the people be many in number , full of wisdome and understanding , their libertie to choose is the greater ; and it is the greater wrong to be deprived of it . the practise of the apostles and the primitive churches for many ages will confirme this ; for sometimes men were propounded to the church to be chosen : sometimes the choice was wholly left to them : and was not that for our direction , that more libertie is given where the danger is lesse , and more restraint and caution used where the danger is more apparent , that if they be left to themselves , either an ill or unfit choice will be made ? in reason this is evident , for the childs consent is required in marriage , but the more able he is to choose for himselfe , the more libertie may parents grant , the lesse able , the more watchfull must they be ; and so in this businesse . brotherly societie requires that we mutually exhort , admonish , reprove and comfort each other as occasion requires , and as need requires . it is a dutie of neighbour-churches to lend their helpe to their brethren in the choice and election of their minister . when the scripture willeth that one should admonish another , it is not onely a command to every singular man towards his fellow , but also to any whole company too : another societie bellarmine asketh , quo jure unus populus episcopum alterius populi elegere potest ? junius answereth ; certe charitatis jure & communione sanctorum . and paul when he teacheth that all the faithfull are members of one mysticall body of christ , who ought to have a mutuall care one of another , laid the foundation of this policie . it is a blemish in the calling of a minister , if either the people be not fit to choose , or being fit they be shut forth from the choice , but this maime doth not make a nullitie in his calling ; for in every true church where the word is preached and received , and the sacraments for substance rightly administred , there is a true and lawfull ministery , and a true and lawfull calling of that ministery , though in some things defective . in the church of god all sound and saving truth is to be found , for it is the pillar and ground of truth , and where the true profession of all saving truth , with the right use of the sacraments for substance is to be found , there is the church , which ordinarily cannot be had , maintained and continued without a lawfull ministery , nor that without a calling . the saving truth of god & a lawfull ministery , are both essentiall to a true church . something of this remaines in every compleat societie that hath any thing of the church ; and for essence and substance they are true in every true , lawfull , compleat societie . the profession of the truth may be true and sound in all necessary and fundamentall points , though mixed with diverse errors , and the ministery for truth and substance lawfull , though many wayes deficient . in the true church there is a true ministery , but the true church hath continued there by the blessing of god , where the election of ministers hath been given away by the people , or taken from them . in the primitive church , when the people had a voyce in the choice of their pastor , oftentimes there were factions in the church , the people stood against their guides and challenged the whole power of election to themselves . sometimes they were divided among themselves . sometimes they gave away their power , at least in part , and sometimes ministers were set over them without their councell and advice , whose ministery notwithstanding was not reputed voyde and of none effect . if it be objected that many things were amisse in those primitive elections , what will follow thence , but that the ministery may be lawfull and good , where there be many wants in the manner of calling ? if this be not granted , what shall be done when the people and their elders be divided in the choice of a fit officer . if the people prevaile against their elders , he whom they choose is no minister to them , because not chosen by their suffrages : if the elders against the people , he whom they approve is no minister unto theirs , because not chosen by their suffrage ; and so if there be dissention they must seperate from , or excommunicate one another , because he is no minister to the one whom the others approve . the orthodox pastors did professe , so that the donatists would returne to the true and apostolicall doctrine , they would not disallow their bishops , that they might understand that catholiques did not detest christian consecration ( as augustine speakes ) by humane error . the high priesthood was bought and sold for money , and sometimes made annuall , and every yeare new high priests created , sicut isti praefecti quos singulis annis promutant reges , as sol : jarchi saith . that as every man would lay out more or lesse money , he should get or lose the priesthood , which may be seene in the examples of jason or menelaus . neverthelesse , so long as the jewes continued the true church of god , the priesthood was true also . the reformed churches who have seperated from the abhominations of rome , professe the first reformers among them received some ordinary calling in the romane synagogue . they that thinke the basest of rome , will acknowledge baptisme unduely administred by priests or jesuites , to be for substance the holy sacrament of christ . and if the baptisme of god may be derived from the ministery , it is no absurditie to thinke that the first seekers of reformation derived authoritie from christ to preach the word and administer the sacraments by them , as stewards used of god to set them in that office : for the seekers of reformation derived their authoritie from god , and that which is instituted by christ , is not made voyde by the corruptions of men . the third and fourth consideration we will passe over , because from what hath been spoken , it is easie to understand in what sense they may be admitted , and in what denyed , and we have no desire to trouble you with the examination of that which falleth not into question . as for the second branch of your answer , that in case the church shall without cause , or without sufficient weightie cause , rashly or wilfully set him aside whom christ hath set over them , yet he still remaines a minister of christ ( untill he accepts of a call from another people ) in whose account , notwithstanding such depositions , he hath true right of administring among that people : we know not well your meaning ; if this be your minde that a minister lawfully called and set over one congregation , is to be esteemed a minister in the usuall church , as the particular church hath unitie with , and is part of the universall or catholique : and as a partie baptized is not baptized into that particular congregation onely , but into all churches ; and that the ministery is one , cujus à singulis in solidum pars tenetur , as cyprian speakes ; and therefore though the minister be unjustly cast off by one congregation , yet he is not to be esteemed as no minister , we freely consent . but if your meaning be that he is onely by right a minister of that particular congregation , because unjustly deposed , as formerly in the execution of his office he was a minister to them onely , and to none other societie whatsoever , or in what respect soever ; your opinion is contrary to the judgement and practise of the universall church , and tendeth to destroy the unitie of the church , and that communion which the churches of god may and ought to have one with another ; for if he be not a minister in other churches , then are not the churches of god one , nor the ministers one , nor the flocke which they feed one , nor the communion one which they have each with other . and if the pastor derive all his authoritie to feede from the church , when the church hath set him aside , what right hath he to administer among that people . if they erre in their deposition , it is true they sinne against christ . but as they give right to an unworthy man to administer among them , if they call him unjustly , so they take right from the worthy if wrongsully they depose him . the minister is for his ministery the office for the execution , and so the pastor and the flocke are relatives : and therefore if their election gave him authoritie among them to seed , their casting him off hath stripped him of the same power which formerly they gave him . and his ministery ceasing , he should cease to be their minister , if he stood as minister onely to that congregation in every respect . whit. depont . q. 4. sec. 10. pa. 559. certe lex naturae & ratio clamitat cujus est instituere ejus est destruere , sive destituere , ad quem institutio pertinet ad eundem destitationem , seu destructionem pertinere . rob. aga . b. p. 214. if the congregation may chuse and elect their governours , then they may refuse and reprobate them . viii . position . that one minister cannot performe any ministeriall act in another congregation . answer . if you take ministeriall act improperly as sometimes it is taken by some , onely when the minister of one church doth exercise his gifts of praying and preaching in another church , being by themselves so desired . then we answer , in this sense a minister of one church may do a ministeriall act in another , which he doth not perform by vertue of any calling , but onely by his gifts ; and thus upon any occasion we mutually perform those acts one in anothers churches : but if you meane by ministeriall act , such an act of authoritie and power in dispensing of gods ordinance as a minister doth perform to the church , whereunto he is called to be a minister ; then we deny that he can so perform any ministeriall act to any other church but his own , because his office extends no further then his call . for that solemne charge , act. 20. 28. is not to feed all flocks , but that one flock onely , over which the holy ghost hath made them over-seers . if the question were propounded to any minister so exercising in an others church , which was once to our saviour by the chief priests and elders : by what power doest thou these things , and who gave thee this authoritie ? let that minister whosoever he be , study how to make an answer . reply . the preaching of the word , publick prayer in the congregation met together solemnly to worship god , and the administration of the sacraments , are acts properly ministeriall ( if any other ) to be performed by power and authoritie from christ , as you acknowledge , for the preaching of the word , and dispensation of the seales in your second consideration . but these acts one minister may performe in another congregation , or towards the members of another church . you know by whom your question hath been propounded touching one ministers exercising in another ministers church , and how it hath been answered ; and if you see more light and truth then formerly , we would desire you substantially to confute what answers some of you have returned to that demand . to admit ( saith mr. j. d. ) those that are known members of another church to communion in the sacraments upon fitting occasions i hold lawfull , and do professemy readinesse to practise accordingly . again , i conceive that ( besides my membership else where , and the right which those churches give to known passants of being admitted to the communion for a short time ) both himself and the whole church acknowledge me for a member with them for the time of my abode in that service , which they testified by desiring the help of my publick labours , and their cheerfull admittance of me to that ordinance during that time without the least scruple . and if a minister may pray , preach , blesse the congregation in the name of the lord , and receive the sacrament with them , being thereunto requested ; we doubt not but by consent of the pastor and the congregation he may lawfully dispense the seals amongst them also as need and occasion requires . that distinction of preaching by office , and exercising his gifts onely , when it is done by a minister , and desired of none but ministers , and that in solemne , set , constant church-assemblies , we cannot find warranted in the word of truth , and therefore we dare not receive it . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a70435-e890 it is truly observed by master davenport out of ambros . offic. l 1. c. 1. et quantum libet quisque profecerit , nemo est qui doceri non indigeni dum vi●it . appoll . preface to the reader . wrence these men ( saith cann against robi ) superstitiously addicted to their new devise , that beware how to reject the unanimous judgment and practice of all learned men and true churches . stay against straying . pag. 47. i am and shall be always ready to give all due respect to those good customes of churches , which are taken upon good warrant and ground , and long continued among gods people . i. d. apol. p. 31. good customes taken up by the churches upon good grounds should not lightly be broken or laid downe , wherein i doe fully agree with the authour of that elaborate commentary upon the fourth chapter of iohn , i. d. apol. sect. 12. examina . p. 251. notes for div a70435-e1210 this argument is used by the abridgment against conformity to the ceremonies , and we do not see but it is as strong against this liturgy . whereas the publisher of this answer to the six positions , refers the reader to mr. cottons answer unto mr. ball for satisfaction in this point concerning set formes of prayer . the reader is earnestly intreated to compare master balls treatise , and mr cottons answer with seriousnesse and indifferencie , because mr ball having received that answer before the publishing of his treatise ( being much enlarged , whereof mr , cotton was ignorant ) was confident , that with addition of some marginall no●es ( which in reference thereto he added ) his treatise would sufficiently defend it selfe , against all the assaults , which that answer made against it . notes for div a70435-e2000 we may not communicate at all in that ministery , which is exercised by an unlawfull person or in an unlawful . place robinson against bern. counsell debated p 17 ibid. pag 79 esa . 56. 10. ezech 4● . 7 , 8. mic 3. 11 , 12. ier. 5. 31. esa . 9 15 , 6. ioh. 2. 16. math 5. 20 , 21. & 15. 4 , 5. & 23 1 ▪ 3. 14. math. 16 6. 12. & 15. 14. see whitak de pontif q 4. f : 10. pag. 557. phil. 1. 15. hos . 4 6 , 7. 1 sam. 2. 12 , 13 , 14 , 17 , 14. ier. 8. 8 , 9. mic 3. 11 , 12. phil 1. 15. helv conf . cap 18 § 11. & 19 §. 9 , gal. conf . art . 28 arg. conf . art. 13. saxon. conf . art. 12 zep. de sac l. 2. c. 6. art. of religion , hybera . art 70 carlton praelect de ecclesia , cap. 20. we see no warrant why for every particular act , that in a larger sence is idolatrous , adjoyned to gods true worship , we should forbeare our presence at the true worship it self . unreason . of seperation . answ to 6. argument . compare what ' master i. d. hath written in defence or excuse in resorting to the assemb . of the separatists , called brownists . apol. sect. 5. exam . p. 6● . & apol. sect. 28 exam . pag. 246. notes for div a70435-e2680 rom 16 16. 1 cor. 11 16. & 14 33. rom 16 4. gal ● 22. 1 thess 2 14. 1 cor 16 19. gal. ● 2. act 15 2. & 19 37. & 15. 25 38. eph. 4. 4 , 5. acts. 2. 38. 41. gen 1. 10. math. 28. 14 20. robins . against bern. reas . discus . pa. 77. lev 2. 13. deut. 29. 12. & 26. 17. 18. rom. 3. 2 deut. 4 6. psa . 247 19 20 neb. 9. 13. act. 7. 38. luk. 16. 29. 2 cor 5 19 & 11. 2. deut 33. 3. 10. 8. 30 robin against bern p 159. act 14 22. t it 1 5. rob : against bern. act 11 26. in the same verse the same persons are called the church disciples , and christians pag. 106 107. 211 &c. also pag. 51 ezeck . 46. 10 see lava●er on ezek math 18. 20. ier. 14. 9. ios. 24. 14 rom. 10. 14 act 2. 42 as christ is that one great pastor , so hath hee generally one fold and flock , iohn 10. 16. ezeck . 34 22 , 23 which is his church , as he saith . and ye my flock , the flock of my pasture are men , ezek 34. 31. aynsw . cant 1. 8. sure it is that hee is none of christs sheepe visibly , or in respect of men which is without christs sheepfold , for there is one sheepfold and one sheepheard . iohn 10 16. robins against bern likelihoods , p. 61. hieron . tom . 2. ep. 85. nec altera romae urbis ecclesia , alteratotius orbis existimanda est , & gallia , & britannia , & asia , &c. & omnes barbarae nationes unum christum adorant , unam observant regulam veritatis . 1 cor 12. 28. col. 1. 21. 1 cor. 12 , 13. 1 cor. 15. 9. gal. ● . 13. phil. 3. 6. 1 tim. 3. 15. 1 pet. 5. 2. pastores sunt omnes , sed grex unus qui ab apostolis omnibus unanimi consensu pascatur . cypr. de unitate ecclesiae . etsi pastores multi sumus , unum tamen gregem pascimus , cypr. l. 3. epistola 13. cum sit a christo una ecclesia per totum mundum in multa membra divisa item episcopatus unus episcoporum multorum concordi numero diffusus , &c. cypr. l. 4. ep. 7. iohn 9. 22 35. & 12. 42 & 16. 2. a●●anasius may be for an example . gen 17. 7. lev. 16. 12. apo. 1 11. 13. heb. 16. 10. rob. against bern. pa. 127. rom. 4. 12. ●8 . gen. 12. 3. gal. 26 , 7 , 3 , 15 , 16 , 17 rob. against b●r. pa. 2●2 . see mr. i. d. apol. 11. sect. exam p. 117. i. d. apol. 5. sect. exem . pag. 61 , & 18. bucer . diss . ep 3 pa 43 & ep 48. pa. 226. act. 8. 6. & 15 4. act 8. 12. 14. & 18. 12. acts 2. 41. & 4. 4. & 5 14. & 6. 1. & 6. 7 ezra . 2. 36 , 37 , 38. act. 6. 2 & 81. 15. 2 , 4 , 6 , 22 , 23 & 16. 4. & 21 18. 28. act 11. 21. act. 11 24 26 act. 13 12 et 14. 27. et 15. 30 34 , 35. acts 19 10. & 16. 9 & 29. 27. acts 19. 19. robinson against bern p. 196. euseb h●st l. ● c. 35 ●at 43. g●ae● 33. raff . 1 hit de sacra contr de bapt . qu 2 & 3 pag 237 , 238. a●●ers . of the sacr : l. 2 c 6 fol. 211. 〈◊〉 de p●es●y● . pag. 79. act. 14 ●3 col. 4. 17 1 pet 5. 2 act 20. 28 ioh. 4. 2. & 23 23. mark. 9. 15. act 17 22 23 32. & 19. 8. 9 rob. against ●ern . p 151 these keyes in d. &c. in the corporation ( the church ) there is alwayes the whole power of christ to residing , which you may call officers for the use of it selfe , to which it is sufficient that it can without officers use this power for things simply necessary ; as for receiving in of members by profession of faith and confession of sins , for edifying of them by exhortation and comforts in the ordinance of prophesying , and so for excommunication . rob. against b. pag. 224. see rob. against ber. pag. 130. 131. 132. if you call it consultation in an assembly wherein all have equall power and voyce in determining things some one going before the rest idem pag 202 robins against bern. coun. debated , p 32. ibid. p. 79. 1 cor. 11 28. 2 cor. 23. 5. beza de presbyt . & excom . pag. 32 robins against bern. pag. 252. acts 20 28 the word of god and canons of councels will have pastors so to care for their own flock , that they forbid them not to care for the whole church , especially in a time of common combustion . the answer of some brethren , pag 12. publica dei invocatio non minima pars communis in unâ fide consensionis . beza contra erastum , de presbyt pap . 13. euseb . hist 5. c. 26. graec. cham●●● panst . tom 2. l. 10. c. 8. sect. 16. the churches plea , pag 44. ap●l pag. 117 & 298. orig. in isa . hom. 6. qui vocatur ad episcopatum , vocatur ad servitutem totius ecclesiae . chrysoft . in 2 cor. hom . 18. vniversae curam gerimus . see cham panstr . tom. 2. pag. 10. cap. 12. sect. 8 , 9 , 10. &c. jun. animadv . in bellar. contro . 5. lib. 1. c. 3. not . 3. & cap. 7 not . 7. act. 13. 15. rom. 16 3. 12. phil. 2. 15 , 16. & 4. 2. ●am 5. 19 , 20. act. 4. 26. 40 & 9 38. & 10. 5. & 11. 19. 21 1 cor. 14. 23 , 24. esay 2. 3. ezr. 8. 23. 10. 1. 41. 45. & 42. 9. & 12. 20. revel . 3. 9 what example have you but grounds for the baptising of infants ? or where read you of any officer excommunicated by any rob. against ber. p. 214. we may not expect examples of any pastors in scriptures : who did thus . i. d. apol. 9. sect. exam p. 1●3 . see i. d. apol. texts . exam pa. 288. exod 1248. exod. 447. col 2. 11 , 12. erast so objects against bern. sicut a circumcisione ad baptismum argumentamur ut probemus infantes esse baptizandos , ita etiam licet ab agno paschatis ad coenam domini , &c. whereto hee truly replyeth . ego vero , non negolicere &c. at non temere & universaliter . beza contra erast . pag. 23. ●ev . 12. 23. & 22. 7 exo. 22. 30 , eph. 215. etiam si daremus nullam legi ab apostolis excommunicationem non tamen sequeretur ita esse , quum satis constet non omnium singularia apostolorum gesta perscripta fuisse . bez. de presb. p. 7. et si de melchizedeck & iobo quae huc adferuntur non sunt extra controversiam . nam foedere cum abra. inito non excluduntur ij qui ante erant in foedere sed accensentur foederi . ita autem se habuit melchizedeck , &c. omnino enim consors promissionis divine fuit ante foedus cum eo initum . gen. 17. job vero & credens fuit promissionibus foederis & de sententia veterum fuit circumcisus etiam haereditarià circumcisione a paterno maternaque sanguine . vt elegantèr scribit author libri de verà circumcisione qui hieron . ad scribitur . iun. anim adv . in bellar . contrav . 4. lib. 3. cha . 16. not . 13. 1● . d. exam 〈◊〉 tents p 309. mat. 3. 7. 10 42. act. 2 37 , 38. 41. & 8 37. & 10. 47. 48. 1. cor. 5. 12. 1. job . 2. 19. 1. cor. 11. 19. rev. 22. 15. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . 1. tim. 3. 7. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , & script . ethnici apud patres audiunt . 01 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . matth. 8. 11. ephes . 2. 12. rob. against ber. p. 101. * mr. 10. d. apol. sect. 40. exam p. 182. what though this inconvenience do arise sometimes through mans corruption it should be otherwise ; and we must ever consider of the nature of gods ordinances in their right use , &c. rob. against ber. pa. 213. respondit caam nullam fuisse cur 10. bapt. istos accedentes rejiceret ut qui ad ejus bapt . venirent cum peccatorum agnitione nec ipse potestatem haberet eos excommunicandi etiamsi fuissent excom . digni . beza de presb. p 23. recte sane quis illos à sacris prohibuerat , &c. etsi sit tam sceleratus quispiam quam esse exist imatur tum si tale judicium sibi quisque sumat quae mox fuerit ecclesie facies ? sed pretered tenendum est istud in hoc negotio inita cujuspiam cons . non probabillas rectam alterius consciam . id. pa. 26. id in privatorum arbitrio relinquere ut alibi diximus & periculosum nimis & toti ecclesiae valde damnosum fuisset . id. p. 80. demonstr . of disc . ca. 4. rob. against bern. likely veiwed . p. 40. john 4. 2. math. 28. 19. 1 cor. 14. 34 , 35. tit. 2. 11 , 12. rob. ag . ber. pa. 206. rob. ag . bern. pa. 239. matth 3 6 , 7. iob. 4 2. and 3. 22. matt. 28 19. 20. act. 2. 37 , 38. act. 8. 12. act. 8. 47. & 11. 16. 17. act 8 37. act. 10 47. and 11. 16. 17. act. 9. 18. act. 16 , 14. 33. 1. cor. 1. 17. matth. 28. 19. act. 2. 41. and 8. 12 , 13 , 37. helv. conf . c. 20. gallic . sect. 35. anglic. & ab eo neminem qui velit profiteri nomen christi ne infantes quidem christianorum hominum , &c. scot. conf . c. 23. belgi● . act . 34. zengerm , conf . de bapt. insant . pro. 44. argent . conf . ca. 17. saxon , confes . ca. 14. palab . conf . sect. ad usum vero ipsum , &c. rob. against ber. pa. 92. matth. 28. 19. act. 2. 41. & 8. 12 13 37. and 10. 47. and 2. 39. 1 cor. 7. 19. act. 8. 27. act. 4. 15. joh 4. 2 , 3. & 3. 27. act. 10. 48. whit. de sacra . q. 3. de bap. cap. 2. pa 260. act. 8. 12. & 9. 18. 1 cor. 1. 17. against b. pa. 88. see j. d. ap. sect. 12. pa. 152 , 153 , 154. deut. 30. 6. rom. 10. 6 , 7 , 8 , 9. rom. 4. 11. gen. 17. 11 , 12 and 26. 4. act. 2. 38. gal. 3. 26. 27. tit. 3. 5. mat. 20. 23. 1 pet. 3. 21. 1 cor. 1. 30. matth. 3. 6. 7. mark 1. 4. 5. luk. 13. 3. 16. matth. 28. 19 , 20. mar. 16. 15 , 16. act. 2. 37. 47. act. 8. 12. 14. act 9. 11-17 . act. 10. 43-48 . notes for div a70435-e8780 vid. park . pol. ecclesiastica . l. 3. c. 1 , 2 &c. a fen. theol. lib. 7. park . de pol. lib. 3. c. 1. j. d. apol. 27. sect. exam . p● . 238 , 239 , 240. b rob. against ber. pa. 182. by two or three are meant the meanest communion or societie of saints , with or without officers . rob. against ber. certaine observations , p. 4. onely he that is of the true visible church and furnished with the power of christ , the keyes of the kingdome for the censure can admonish his brother in order , and those degrees which the word prescribeth mat. 28. 15. 17. id. pa 99. the power as to receive in , so to cut off any member is given to the whole body together of every christian congregation , and not to any one member apart , or to more members sequestred from the whole , using the meetest number for pronouncing the censures , id. pa. 124-126 . if the brethren have libertie in the ordinance of prophesying , they have also libertie in the other ordinance of excommunication , for they are both of the same nature ; looke to whom christ gave the one key of knowledge , to them he gave the other key of discipline , rob. against bern. pa. 238 , 239. mat. 28. 19 28. joh. 20. 21 , 22. & 21. 15 , 16. gal. 1. 1. ioh 21. 22. whit. de pont . q. 8. c. 2. 3. 1 cor. 3. 22. & 4. 1. 1 tim. 3. 15. authoritas rectorum pro dono quidem ecclesiae à christo data est , sed non pro dono absoluto , ut penes totam ecclesiam resideat cui datur , sed pro dono conditionali , ut rectoribus ipsis communicetur ad totius aedificationem , park . de polit. lib. 3. cap. 8. 1 cor. 12. 7. 1 cor. 3. 12. 1. tim. 3. 15. 1 cor. 4. 1. act. 20. 28. eph. 4. 8. 11. 1 co. 12. 28 , 29 2 co. 5. 19 , 20. tit. 1. 7. successor habet jurisdictionē ab eo a quo praedecessor , alioqui non verè succedit . but pastors and teachers are the successors of the apostles . whit. de pont . q. 8. c. 3. fr : victor rel . 2. de potest ecclesiae q. 2. alphons . de castr . li. 2. c. 24. de insta baret . whit. de pont . q. 8. c. 1. cham. panstr . tom . 2. lib. 11. c. 18. sect . 11. in the church the officers are the ministers of the people , whose service the people is to use for administration and executing their judgements , that is , pronouncing the judgement of the church ( and of god first ) against the obstinate . rob. against ber. p. 136. the officers in the church are both christs and the peoples servants and ministers . id. p. 165. ames bel. enerv . tom . 2. l. 3. c. 1. ministri ecclesiastici sunt ecclesie tanquam objecti circa quod versantur ministri sunt christi tanquam principalis causae & domini à quo pendent ministri sed nullo modo episcoporum . omnis legatus in causâ legationis suae immediatè pendet ab eo à quo mittitur , & instrumento mandatorum in corrupto est indelebili . a we denie the order of elders to be superiour to the order of saints , since it is not an order of mastership but of service . rob. against bern. pa. 201. it were a strange thing that men could have no command over their servants , as i have oft shewed the church-officers to be her servants . id. p. 214. the order of servants is inferiour to the order of them whose servants they are : but the order of church-officers is an order of servants , and they by office to serve the people , id. p. 215. 227. notes for div a70435-e9550 heb. 13. 1. pro. 12. 19. & 1 7. 23. gen 4. 4. 9. levit. 19. 17. mat. 18. 15. gal. 6. 1. rob. ag . bern. pa. 230. exod. 24. 37. deut. 2. 14. & 4. 3. 4. & 9. 7. ezek. 16. 6. 8. nū . 23. 48. 50. deut. 29. 10. 11 , 12. josh 24. 1. 14. 23 , 24 , 25. iudg. 2. 8. 11. & 3. 9. 15. & 6. 7. & 10. 10-17 . 2 chr. 15. 12 2 kin. 11. 17. & 23. 3. 2 chr. 34. 31. heb. 10 29. 30 act. 2. 38. & 8. 37. & 19. 17 , 18 , 19. act. 8. 37. notes for div a70435-e10210 whit. de pontq . 1 ca. 1. p. 14. ep. 13. li. 3. rom 15. 14. heb. 3. 13. bel. de cler. li. ● . c. 7. jun. animad . contr . 5. l. c 7. no● . 13. rom. 12. 12. theod. hist . l. 4. c. 6. aug epist . 110. & 225. socrat. hist . l 7. c. 34 , 35. 39. zozom . hist . l. 2. c. 18 , 19. nazian . in epitaphium patris evagr. l. 2. c. 5. 8. theod. hist . l. 5. c. 23. jun. animadver in bel. cont 5. l. 1. c. 7. nor . 16 , 17. cartur . reply 2d . part 1. pa. 212. illiris . catal . test . li. 2. tit . ecclesiae gubern . jos . antiq. l. 20. c. 18. c. 4. see ambros . de officijs . l. 1. c. 50. hieron . ad ocean & epist. ad nepotian . t. c. reply 1. pa. 41. a rever . cathol . orth . tract . 2. q. 8. sect. 3. cartw. reply 2. par . 1. pa. 273. notes for div a70435-e10930 to baptise is a duty of the pastors pastoriall office . ● . d. apol ser. exam . pa. 287. exam. of texts , pa. 290. apol. exam . of texts . p. 288. church-government and church-covenant discussed, in an answer of the elders of the severall churches in new-england to two and thirty questions, sent over to them by divers ministers in england, to declare their judgments therein. together with an apologie of the said elders in new-england for church-covenant, sent over in answer to master bernard in the yeare 1639. as also in an answer to nine positions about church-government. and now published for the satisfaction of all who desire resolution in those points. mather, richard, 1596-1669. 1643 approx. 332 kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from 71 1-bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : 2008-09 (eebo-tcp phase 1). a88943 wing m1270 thomason e106_8 thomason e106_9 estc r18913 99860496 99860496 130517 this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons 0 1.0 universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase 1, no. a88943) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set 130517) images scanned from microfilm: (thomason tracts ; 19:e106[8], 19:e106[9]) church-government and church-covenant discussed, in an answer of the elders of the severall churches in new-england to two and thirty questions, sent over to them by divers ministers in england, to declare their judgments therein. together with an apologie of the said elders in new-england for church-covenant, sent over in answer to master bernard in the yeare 1639. as also in an answer to nine positions about church-government. and now published for the satisfaction of all who desire resolution in those points. mather, richard, 1596-1669. mather, richard, 1596-1669. apologie of the churches in new-england for church-covenant. peters, hugh, 1598-1660. davenport, john, 1597-1670. [4], 84; [2], 46, [1], 50-78, [2] p. printed by r.o. and g.d. [and t.p. and m.s.] for benjamin allen and are to be sold at his shop in popes head-ally, london : 1643. the first two parts were written by richard mather. editor's note "to the reader" signed: h. peter, i.e. hugh peters. in part a reply to: ashe, simeon. a letter of many ministers in old england, requesting the judgement of their reverend brethren in new england concerning nine positions. "an apologie of the churches in new-england for church-covenant" and "an answer of the elders of the severall churches in new-england unto nine positions", the latter written by john davenport, each have separate dated title page with "printed by t.p. and m.s. for benjamin allen" in imprint. "an apologie" begins new register and pagination and possibly was issued separately (cf. wing m1267). the last leaf is blank. annotation on thomason copy: on t.p. of part 1: "june 15"; on t.p. of part 3: "june 15". reproduction of the original in the british library. created by converting tcp files to tei p5 using tcp2tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between 1473 and 1700 available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the 25,363 texts created during phase 1 of the project have been released into the public domain as of 1 january 2015. anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. 5% (or 5 pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of 100 instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level 4 of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p5, characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng bernard, richard, 1568-1641. ashe, simeon, d. 1662. -letter of many ministers in old england, requesting the judgement of their reverend brethren in new england concerning nine positions -controversial literature -early works to 1800. church polity -early works to 1800. congregational churches -england -early works to 1800. congregational churches -government -early works to 1800. 2007-03 tcp assigned for keying and markup 2007-04 apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images 2007-06 john latta sampled and proofread 2007-06 john latta text and markup reviewed and edited 2008-02 pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion church-government and church-covenant discvssed , in an answer of the elders of the severall churches in new-england to two and thirty questions , sent over to them by divers ministers in england , to declare their judgments therein . together with an apologie of the said elders in new-england for church-covenant , sent over in answer to master bernard in the yeare 1639. as also in an answer to nine positions about church-government . and now published for the satisfaction of all who desire resolution in those points . london , printed by r. o. and g. d. for benjamin allen and are to be sold at his shop in popes head-ally , 1643. to the reader . it is not hard to believe that such discourses as this wil meet with divers censures , the prophane and ignorant loathing christ , and any thing concerning him ; the formalist accounting such truths troublesom that may ingage him in the change of his opinions and practises , and some of the wisest will be apt to question the tyming such light as this : yea doubtles this pamphlet-glut●ed age will so looke upon it , and lay it by . but because i doe conceive that this sword will not be sheath'd which is now drawn , till church-work be better known , and more countenanced , and since safety is laid up in the temple , psa . 27. 3 , 4 , 5. i could not but help on this , which attended and practised may prove our security next to christ . these were either sudden answers to our doubting and inquiring brethren , or some satisfaction rendred about our so much slighted church-covenant , which wee could not but thinke might come to view , for the present stay to some faithfull soules , that call for light , and intend to use it well : for others , of what kind soever , we must beare their harder thoughts , among th●se usuall loads of scandals , that men of our judgement must carry , especially if zeale for the truth draw them forth to publike observation ; nor doe we purpose ( god helping us . ) to succumbe under calumny , being the livery of quieter times then these , let us bee viler still , so god and his arke may be more glorious . yet this i doe professe for my selfe and brethren that as we have not bin dealt with , nor convinc'd of any offence , so we shall ever be ready to give an account of that hope which is in us , being call'd thereunto ; in the meane time we over looke these barkings of black mouthes , and wish a good comment be made upon the text of our plaine meaning . the onely way i know to reach gods mind in worship will bee to love the truth for it's owne sake : yea to love it when it shall condemne our practises and persons also : who hath not observed that the first step to error is the declining the truth in love to it ? ⁂ hence popery begat her first brat , and hath nurst it up with thesame milke ; we would earnestly desire that none would call that unsensonable or unreasonable , which god seemes even now to call for , at the calling of this synode , and will carry so much reason with it , as god and his truth will owne ; more tendernes and respect to our brethren we know not how to shew , who sent us these 32. questions , no other dealing would we have from our brethren not consenting with us . some rivers have bin noted to differ in the colours of the water , yet running in the same channell : let jesus christ be lifted up by us all ; let us love him whilst wee dispute about him . presbytery and independency ( as it is cal'd ) are the wayes of worship and church fellowship , now looked at , since ( we hope ) episcop 〈…〉 out , and will be buried without expectation of another resurrection . we are much charged with what we own not , viz : independency , when as we know not any churches reformed , more looking at sister churches for helpe then ours doe onely we cannot have rule yet discovered from any friend or enemy , that we should be under canon , or power of any other church ; under their councell we are . we need not tell the wise whence tyranny grew in churches , and how common wealths got their pressure in the like kind . these be our sighs and hearty wishes , that selfe may be conquered in this poore nation , which shuts the doore against these truths . know ( good reader ) we do not hereby go about to whistle thee out of any known good way of god. commonly questions and answers cleare up the way , when other treatises leave us to darknes . read them , and what we say for a church-covenant , it may save charge and time in reading other bookes , remember wee strive not here for masteryes , but give an account of our practise wherein if thou know'st we faile candidus imperti ; if we agree let us worke by our plat-forme ; and may thy soule flourish as a greene heath or watered garden . so prayeth thine heartily h. peter . the xxxii questions stated . _1 . whether the greatest part of the english there ( by estimation ) be not as yet unadmitted to any congregation among you , and the reasons thereof ? 2. what things doe you hold to be essentiall and absolutely necessary to the being of a true visible church of christ ? 3. whether doe you not hold all visible believers to bee within the visible church as members thereof , and not without in the apostles sence ; 1 cor. 5. and therefore ought so to be acknowledged , and accepted in all congregations wheresoever they shall come , and are so knowne : and ought ( if they desire and be not otherwise unfit ) of right to be permitted to partake in all gods ordinances and church priviledges there , so farre as they personally concerne themselves , although they be not as yet fixed members in particul●r covenant , either with that congregation where for the present they reside , nor with any other ? 4. whether you doe not hold that baptisme rightly ( for substance ) partaked doth make them that are so baptized , members of the visible church : and so to have right ( at least quoad nos ) to all the priviledges thereof ( so farre as they are otherwise fit ) untill they be cast out ( if they so deserve ) by excommunication . 5. whether doe you not admit children under age as members of the church , together with , and in the admission of their parent or parents : so as thenceforth they may partake of all church priviledges being otherwise fit ) without any other personall profession of faith , or entring into church covenant , when they shall come to yeares ? and how long doe you count them under age ? 6. whether do not you admit orphants under age , with and in their guardians ? 7. whether doe you admit or refuse children under age only acco●ding to the present estate of their nearest parents ? or doe you not admit them if any of their next ancestors before their parents were believers ? 8. whether doe you require of all persons of age , whom you admit members of any church ? 1. a publike vocall declaration of the manner and soundnesse of their conversion ? 2. a publike profession of their faith concerning the articles of religion . 3. an expresse verball covenanting to walke with the said church in particular , in church fellowship . 4. and not to depart from the said church afterward without the consent thereof : or how doe you hold and practise in these things ? 9. whether doe you hold all , or the most of our parish assemblies in old-england to be true visible churches of christ ; with which you may lawfully joyne in every part of gods true worship ( if occasion served thereto : ) or if not all or the most , then what ones are those of which you so account , and with which you durst so partake or joyne ; and in what respects ? and why be not the rest such as well as they ? 10. if you hold that any of our parishionall assemblies are true visible churches , and that the members thereof are all , or some of them ( at least ) members of true visible churches , then whether will you permit such members ( at least ) as are either famously knowne to your selves to be godly , or doe bring sufficient testimoniall thereof from others that are so knowne , or from the congregation it selfe whereof they were members here , to partake with you in all the same ordinances , and parts of gods true worship in any of your congregations ( as by occasion they may be there ) in the same manner , and with the like liberty , as you would permit any that might happily come unto you from any of the churches of geneva , france , the low-countreyes , or yet from any one church to another among your selves : suppose from some church about connecticut , or that of plimouth , &c. vnto the church at boston , new-towne , dorchester , &c. or if not , what may be the reason thereof ? 11. whether doe you hold our present standing in our parish assemblies here in old england , to bee lawfull and safe to be continued in , or how f●rre it may be so ? 12. whether doe you hold that every believer is alwayes bound to joyne himselfe as a fixed member to some one particular congregation , so as if he doe not , and so oft and so long as he doth it not , so oft and so long he is without the church in the apostles sence , 1 cor. 5. as an heathen or publican , out of the kingdome of christ , and possibility of salvation , according to that maxime in divinity , extra ecclesiam non est salus . 13. vvhether doe you thinke it lawfull and convenient that a company of private and illitterate persons ( into a church body combined ) should themselves ordinarily examine , elect , ordaine , and depose their owne ministers of the word , without the asistance of any other ministers of other churches , where the same may be had ? 14. whether doe you hold that every small company of seaven , or nine , or twenty , or fourty persons , combined into a church body , be such a church ( as by the ordinance of christ ) hath , and ought to have all power , and exercise of church government : so as they may transact all ecclesiasticall businesses independently amongst themselves ? 15. whether do you give the exercise of all church power of government to the whole church , or to the presbiters thereof alone ? and if to those , then we desire to know what act of government , and superior authority ( properly so called ) may the presbiters doe , more then any other member may doe , or without the particular consent of the rest , wee crave to have those particular acts mentioned : and how , and over whom in those acts the presbiters doe rule ( in propriety of speaking ) more then the rest of the congregation doe ? 16. whether doe you not permit women to vote in church matters ? 17. whether in voting doe the major part alwayes , or at any time , carry ecclisiasticall matters with you , or in what things doth it , in what not ? 18. what meanes have you to preserve your churches in vnity and verity , or to correct or reduce any church erring in doctrine or practice . as , 1. whether you have any plat-form of doctrine and discipline agreed upon ; or if you have not , whether meane you to have one , and when ; and thinke you it lawfull and expedient so to have ? 2. whether have you combined your selves together into classes , or purpose so to doe , so as to doe no weighty matter without their counsell and consent ? 3. or give you any power to synods and councells to determine and order things that cannot otherwise be ended , so as that their determination shall bind the particular churches so assembled to due obedience , in case they decree nothing but according to truth and right , and to peaceable suffering , in case they should doe otherwise ? or what other course you have , or intend to have for that end aforesaid ? 19. whether hold you , that each particular church may lawfully make such laws or orders ecclesiasticall , for the government of it selfe , and the members thereof ; for decency , order , and edification , as shall oblige all her members , and may not be omitted without sinne ? 20. wherein hold you that the whole essence of a ministers calling doth consist : as 1 , whether is election by the people it , yea or no ? or 2. is it so essentiall , as that without it , the ministers calling is a meere nullity ? or 3. is ordination as essentiall a part thereof , as the peoples election ? or 4. is it but a meer formality and solemnity of their calling ? 21. whether doe you hold it lawfull for meer lay or private men to ordaine ministers in any case ? 22. what essentiall difference put you between the office of pastor and teacher , and doe you obser●●e the same difference inviolably ; and do not your teachers by vertue of that office give themselves usually to application of doctrine as , well as your pastours ? and do they not also usually apply the seales ? 23. what authority or eminency have your preaching elders , above your sole ruling elders , or are they both equalls ? 24. vvhether may a minister of one congregation ( being thereto requested ) do as a minister any act of his ministery ( as preach , baptize , administer the lords supper , ordain , &c. in and unto other congregations besides his owne ? 25. whether hold you that a minister of a congregation , leaving or loosing his place ( suppose without his fault ) doe withall lose both nomen and esse of his ministery , and do become a meere lay , or private man , untill he be a new elected , and ordained ? 26. whether doe you allow , or thinke it lawfull to allow and settle any certain & stinted maintenance upon your ministers ? 27. whether doe you permit and call upon meer lay and private men ( neither being in the ministerie nor intended to it ) ordinarily to preach or prophecie publiquely , in , and before the congregation ? and whether thinke you that prophecying mentioned , 1 cor. 14. be to be understood of such , and be an ordinary and standing order of god in the church ? 28. whether doe you allow and call upon your people publiquely before all the congregation to propound questions , move doubts , & argue with their ministers of matters delivered either by them or others , either at the same , or some other time ? 29. whether hold you that the conversion of sinners to god is ordinarily the proper fruit and effect of the word preached , by a minister alone , and that by vertue of his office alone , or that it is alike common to ministers , and lay persons , so they be gifted to preach ? 30. whether all and every of your churches ( including plimouth , &c. ) do precisely observe the same course both in constitution and government of themselves ? 31. vvhether would you permit any companie of ministers and people ( being otherwise in some measure approvable ) to sit downe by you , and set up and practise another forme of discipline , enioying like libertie with your selves in the common-wealth , and accepted as a sister church by the rest of your churches ? 32. vvhether hold you it lawfull to use any set forms of prayer in publique or private , as the lords prayer and others , either made by himselfe that useth the same , or else by some other man ? the answers to the aforegoing questions . the first question answered . all the english and others also are freely admitted to be present in our congregations , at the reading of the scriptures , and exposition thereof ( which is wont alwayes to goe along therewith ) at the preaching of the word , singing of psalmes , prayers , admitting of members , and dispencing of censures ; and many also are admitted to church communion , and so to partake in church ordinances and priviledges , as sacraments , power of election , censures , &c. though many also there are who are not yet admitted to this church communion . but whether is the greater number , those that are admitted hereunto , or those that are not we cannot certainly tell ? but in the churches in the bay , where most of us are best acquainted , we may truely say , that for the heads of families , those that are admitted are farre more in number then the other : besides whom there are likewise sundry children and servants that are admitted also . and for the reason● why many are not yet received to church communion , they are sundry . 1. many are not admitted because they are not yet knowne . every yeare hitherto god hath replenished the country with many new commers , and these at the first are not suddainly taken in , as members of churches , till by time there have been some triall of them , and better occasion to know them what they are . sometimes once a yeare there are in the land many hundreds , and some thousands of this sort . 2. when by time they come to be knowne , many do appeare to be carnall , and give no testimony of being members of christ , and therefore if they should offer themselves to be members of churches the churches would not see warrant to receive them , because the church is the body of christ . 3. some that are godly do of their own accord for a time forbeare to offer themselves , till they be better acquainted with the church and ministry where they intend to joyne , and with the wayes in which the churches walke in this country , and and till they be better informed what are the duties of church members . 4. those that are knowne to be godly , are all admitted in some church or other presently , upon their own desire , when they offer themselves thereto : except any have given offence by walking ( in any particular , in their conversation ) otherwise then becomes the gospell ; and then such are to give satisfaction to them to whom they have given offence , by acknowledgeing their offence , and shewing repentance for it , and then they are admitted . it is one thing what churches ought to be by the appointment of jesus christ , another , what weaknesse and swerving● from his appointment , he may beare withall for a time , before he renounce and cast off a people from being his church . in respect of the former our answer is , that when a visible church is to be e●rected planted or constituted , by the appointment of christ , it is necessary that the matter of it in regard of quality , should be saints by calling , visible christians and believers , 1 cor. 1. 2. eph. 1. 1. and in respect of quantity no more in number in the dayes of the new testament , but so many as may meet in one congregation . 1 cor. 11. 20 & 14. 23. acts 14. 27. & 15. 22 30. and the forme , a gathering together of these visible christians , a combining and uniting of them into one body , by the bond of an holy covenant , for which we refer you to the apolgie of the churches in n. e. sent the last yeare in way of answer to mr. bernard . for the latter we deny not , but visible churches rightly constituted at the first , may degenerate , and great corruptions may grow therein , both in respect of matter and forme , and likewise in respect of their walking and administrations , and yet the lord in his patience may beare long with them , before he give them a bill of divorce , and make them lo-ammi , not a people ; as the example of the church of israel in the old testament . of the church of corinth , the churches of galatia , the 7 churches of asia , and others in the new testament , doe abundantly manifest . but what degrees of corruption may be , before the soule as it were , and life , and being of a church be destroyed , is hard for us precisely and punctually to determine ; or to say thus farre a church may erre , and yet remaine a church ; but if it proceed any further , then it ceaseth to be a church any more ; onely in the generall this we observe , the lord doth not presently cast off a church or give them a bill of divorce , no not for fundamentall errors in doctrine , or idolatry in worship , or tyranny in government , till after obstinate and rebellious rejection of reformation , and the meanes thereof : for all these were found in the church of israel , when they crucified christ , yet the apostles rejected them not , till after the light of grace offered , and blasphemously rejected , acts 13. 45 , 46. but if your selves have so studied this point , as to have ripened and formed thoughts therein , we should gladly receive light from you . we do not know any visible church of the n. t. properly so called , but onely a particular congregation ; and therefore when this question in the first and last clause of it speakes of believers within the visible church , as members thereof , although they be not members of that particular congregation , where for the present they reside , nor of any other : this speech seemes to us according to our apprehension to imply a contradiction . they that are within the visible church as members thereof , must needs be members of some particular congregation , because all visible churches are congregationall , as mr. baine sheweth at large from the church of antioch , act. 14. 27. the church at corinth , 1 cor. 11. & 14. and other examples and reasons with answers to the objections to the contrary in his dioces . triall quest . 1. whereto we referre you in this point ; neither is he alone in this tenent , for mr. parker , and many other teach the same . those silenced and deprived ministers that wrote the booke called , the christian and modest offer of disputation , laying downe 16. propositions which they offer to maintaine against the prelats , give this for the fourth of them viz. there is no true visible church of christ , but a particular ordinary congregation onely . doubtlesse every true visible church hath power from christ to exercise excommunication and other ordinances of christ , so that they proceed therein according to the rules of the word , 1 cor. 5. 4. 5. mat. 18. 17. now dr. whitakers sheweth against bellarmine , that excommunication belongs not to the universall church , but onely to a particular congregation . qui justè excommunicantur , saith he , co satanae traditos esse concedimu● , non t●men posse pr●priem , d●●i eject●s ex ecclesia catholica , quia excommunicatio non catholica , sed particularis ecclesiae censura est . de eccles . qu. 1. c. 6. wherefore if excommunication which belongs to the visible church , belongeth to a particular congregation , it followeth , that there is no visible church , but onely a particular congregation . secondly , as all visible believers are not without christ , but in christ , according as they are believers , so we easily grant ; that those without , of whom the apostle speakes , 1 cor. 5. were unbelievers , pagans , and heathens , both without christ , and also without the visible church . for those that were in christ , and believers in him , were not wont to abstaine from joyning to some particular congregation or other ; and so it come to passe , that as they were in christ by their faith , so by such joyning they became also to be within the visible church . 3. but this we conceive is cleare also , that unlesse believers , be members of this or that particular congregation , to whose inspection and government they have commended themselves in the lord , they also in some respect may be said to be without , that is without the jurisdiction and power of the visible church , and without right to the priviledges of it , as long as they continue in that state : for the church hath nothing to do , either to dispence censures and church priviledges to pagans , who are without all churches , and without christ also ; or to such christians , who though they are not without christ , yet are not within any particular church : for neither the church , nor the ministers thereof may be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . and though those without of whom the apostle speakes , 1 cor. 5. were pagans and heathens , both without christ , and without the visible church also , yet when hee speaketh of judgeing , and saith they might judge them that are within , and not judge them that are without , hee must not be understood as if he meant it simply of being in christ or without christ , and no more then so , but also of being in that particular congregation , and without it : for it is plaine , that those that were in christ , if they were not also within their particular congregation , they had nothing to do to judge them ; and those that were within their particular congregation , them they might judge , though they were not in christ . 4. and that church priviledges do not belong to believers , as such , but onely to such as withall are members of some particular church : the grounds and reasons in the answer to the third and fourth proposition sent the last yeare , do seeme to us to make manifest , whereto we do referre you , for further answer to this question . it is an opinion of the anabaptists , that the church is made by baptisme , and therefore when they constitute or erect a church , they do it by being all of them baptized , which was the manner of mr. smith , mr. helwis , and the rest of that company when they set up their church : the papists also do imagine , that men enter into the church by baptisme , and it is said , that their founts were set neere the doores of their temples , to signifie mens entring into the church by baptisme , and they thought themselves to be christened , or made christian soules by being baptized . but we do not believe that baptisme doth make men members of the church , nor that it is to be administred to them that are without the church , as the way and meanes to bring them in , but to them that are within the church , as a seale to confirme the covenant of god unto them . for 1. this is one point of the dignity and priviledge of the church , that baptisme and all church ordinances are given and committed to it , as circumcision , and church ordinances were given and concredited to the church of the jewes , ioh. 7. 22. now if baptisme in its first being and institution be given as a benefit and priviledge to the church , then baptisme is not that which makes the church ; but the church is presupposed , and must be before it , for the dones , or persons to whom a thing is given , must needs be before the gift that is given to them . 2. the nature and use of baptisme is to be a seale to confirme the covenant of grace between god and his church , and the members thereof , as circumcision also was , rom. 4. 11. now a seale is not to make a thing that was not , but to confirme something that was before ; and so baptisme is not that which gives being to the church , nor to the covenant , but is for confirmation thereof . to bring in baptisme before the covenant , and before the church , with whom god makes the covenant and then to bring in the church afterwards , is to make baptisme a seale unto a blanke , or to a falshood . when the jesuits of rhemes had said that christ sent 12 apostles to the jewes to move them to penance , and so by baptisme to make them of his church . and that paul was sent to the gentiles to move them also to faith and penance , and by baptisme to make them of his church . this saying of making men of the church by baptisme , though uttered by them , as it were by the way , and not being the chiefe scope of their discourse , yet seemed to mr. cartwright so erroneous and unsound , that hee would not let it passe without bearing speciall witnesse against the same . and therefore in opposition thereunto he hath these words , and in another character for more conspicuousnesse , viz. that baptisme makes not men of the church , but sealeth their incorporation into it , hath been declared afore . argument of acts 6. 1. and that catechisme which is commonly said to be penned by our reverend brother mr. ball , or mr. nicholas , now with god , giving this for the definition of baptisme , that it is a sacrament of our ingrafting into christ , communion with him , and entrance into the church , doth in the exposition plainely declare , that when they called baptisme a sacrament of our entrance into the church , they did not meane that baptisme made men members of the church , but signified and sealed that they were members afore : the seed of abraham say they , pag 144. gal. 3. 7. or children of christian parents are within the covenant , are christians and members of the church , 1 cor. 7. 14. rom. 11. 16. baptisme therefore doth not make them christian soules , but doth solemnly signifie and seale their ingrafting into christ , and that communion which the members of christ have with him their head , and doth confirme , that they are acknowledged members of the church , and entred into it , 1 pet. 3. 21. 3. the lord hath had his church when there was neither baptisme nor circumcision , and therefore baptisme or circumcision cannot be that which constitutes the church . the church is one and the same in essence from the begining of the world to the end thereof , viz. a company of people combined together by holy covenant with god , and one with another , and this hath been before baptisme , and likewise before circumcision in the dayes of the patriarks afore abraham . yea if baptisme now , or circumcision in former time did make men members of the church , then for forty yeares together there was no making members of the church , for so long circumcision was discontinued , when baptisme was not yet instituted , ioss . 5. 2 , 3. &c. and so by this meanes all that generation of the israelites that were not circumcised till their comming over jordan unto gilgall , should have bin no members of the church afore that time of their circumcision , which is contrary to the scripture , which as it gives the name and title of a church to the body of this people , when they were in the wildernesse , act. 7. ●8 . ( and they were in the wildernesse 40. yeares , in the latter parts of which time there were few left remaining that had beene circumcised ) so it witnesseth that afore this time of their circumcision they were in covenant with god and his church , deut. 29. 10 , 11 , 12. for that covenant was not made with their fathers that came out of egypt , and were circumcised there , because that generation was consumed in the wildernesse for their murmuring afore this time : but this covenant was made with the children , that as yet were uncircumcised , and therefore it was not circumcision that made men members of the church . 4. baptisme hath been administred , and no church nor members made thereby , and men have been made members of churches and not then baptised , but before . and therfore it is not baptisme that makes men members of the church , jerusalem and all judea , and all the region round about jordan were baptised of iohn confessing their sinnes , mat. 3. 6. and christ made and baptised more disciples then iohn , ioh. 4. 1. and yet neither christ nor john did make new churches , nor gather men into them themselves , both the one and the other living and dying members of the jewish church , which was not yet dissolved , untill upon their rejecting of christ ( not onely of his person upon the crosse , but of his gospel in blaspheming and persecuting grace offered them ) the two staves of beauty and bands were broken and cut assunder , whereby god did breake the covenant that he had made with that people , and the brotherhood between juda and israel , that is , he did un church them , zach. 11. 10 , 11. &c. to 15. so that here is baptisme administred by john and christ , and yet men not received thereby into the church as members , for they were members long afore . againe , when any of those of jerusalem , judea , and the region round about jordan , that were baptised of john , or any of those , many more that were baptised of christ , were afterward joyned as members to those christian churches in judea , samaria , and galile , act. 9. 31. ( as no doubt many of them were ) they were not made members of those christian churches by being baptised , for they were baptised long afore by john and christ , so that those men were members of the jewish church , which was not yet dissolved , and were baptised afterward . and therefore it was not baptisme that made them members , either of the one church or of the other . 5. there are sundry inconveniences , which for ought we see will unavoidably follow , if we shall say that baptisme makes men members of the church ; for first , if baptisme be that which constituts the church , then baptisme may be dispenced by them that are no ministers , for extraordinary ministers , as apostles , and such like are now ceased ; and ordinary ministers have no power to dispence baptisme to any , but onely to them that are already members of the church , seeing their commission and power is limited to the church , and the flock of god over which the holy ghost hath made them overseers , acts 20. 28. besides , the church is before the ministers , seeing the power of choosing ministers is given by christ unto the church ; and therfore if baptisme be that which makes the church , then men must be baptised afore there be ministers to baptise them , and consequently without ministers . secondly , if baptisme rightly for substance partaked , doth make men members of the visible church , then it will follow that papists are members of the church : for they have baptisme so farre right for substance , as that it needs not be repeated . but mr. perkins teacheth that this baptisme proves not the church of rome , of which all papists are members , to be any true church of god , and gives sundry reasons for the same , in answer to them , that from baptisme rightly for substance administred in popish assemblies , would prove those assemblies to be true churches : exposit . of creede , in the article , i believe the holy catholique church . and surely for our parts , we doe not see how it will be avoyded , but if baptisme made men members of the visible church , either papists are members of the visible church , and the church of rome , of which they are members , a true visible church , or else we must renounce their baptisme as corrupt and false , even for the substance of it ; and so all such as shall be converted from amongst them , must be baptised againe , as not having had the substance of baptisme before : such dangerous consequences do follow from saying , that baptisme , rightly for substance partaked , doth make them that are so baptised members of the visible church . if any shall say , though baptisme do not make men members of the church , yet it proves them to be members as a cause , is proved by the effect , or an antecedent by a consequent : and therefore all baptised persons should be admitted to all church priviledges as members , whereever they become . we answer , that this will not hold neither , but suppose a man have received baptisme as a member of some visible church , which ought not to have been administred to him , had he not been a member , yet this doth not prove him to be a member still and so give him right to all church priviledges , though hee do remaine alwaies as a baptised person ; and the reason is , because his baptisme may remain , when his church fellowship may be dissolved , as that he can have no right to sacraments thereby : the church member-ship of a baptised person may be thus dissolved by sundry meanes . 1. by some sentence of excommunication justly passed against him for his sinne ; for that censure puts him away from the communion of the church , 1 cor. 5. 2. 13. and makes him as an heathen or publican , mat. 18. 17. so that in that case he can have no right to sacraments by his member-ship , though he still continue a baptised person . 2. by his voluntary departing from the church and the communion of the same when it is unjustly done , 1 ioh. 2. 19. iude 19. heb. 10. 25. in which case dr. ames resolves such schismaticks to be no members of the visible church , cas . cons . lib. 5. c. 12 q. 4. resp. 3. 3. by the dissolution of the church of which he was a member ; for church member-ship is in relation to a church , and therefore if the church cease , the membership must cease also ; relatum & correlatum quâ ●alia sunt simul , adeoquese mutuoponunt et tollunt . now a church may be dissolved , 1. by apostacie and gods giving them a bill of divorce thereupon , ier. 3. 8. when yet there may be in such a church some particular person or persons deare to god , who in such a case are bid to come out from such an apostate church , rev. 18. 4. hose . 2. 1 , 2. & 4 , 15 , 17. 2. by death , as by some grievous pestilence or masacre , &c. in which case one particular person surviving , cannot be counted a member of a church , when that church is extinct of which he was , and yet he remaines a person baptised if he were baptised afore . 3. if that be true which is taught by dr. ames cas . cons . lib. 5. c. 12. q. 3. resp . 2. that in some cases it is lawfull and necessary to withdraw from the communion of a true church ( which seemes to be agreeable to grounds of scripture , ephes . 5. 11. 2 chr● . 11. 14. ) then that will be another case wherein church membership is disanulled ; for how a man can be counted in that state a member of a church , when hee hath lawfully and necessarily withdrawn himselfe from the communion of the church , we do not understand . and this shall suffice for answer unto this point , whether baptisme make men members of a visible church , which as we conceive , is the scope and drift of this question . yet before we proceed to make answer to the next , something also may be said concerning some passages in your amplification of this fourth question . as first concerning those words wherein you aske , whether they that are baptised have not right , quoad nos , to all the priviledges of the visible church ( so farre as they are otherwise fit : ) concerning which words we may say , 1. that those words of your parenthesis ( so farre as they are otherwise fit : ) doe plainely imply , that in your judgement , though one hath received baptisme , yet this doth not give him right to the priviledges of the visible church , unlesse other things do concurre to make him fit , wherein we consent with you . now if this be so , then this seemes to be an answer to that which ( as we conceive ) is the maine intent of the question . for how can it be , that baptisme alone should give men right to the priviledges of the church ( as members thereof , as the question seemes to import ) when in the amplification of it , it is granted , that persons baptised have no such right , except other things doe concurre to make them fit : we doe not see how these things doe stand together . secondly , those words as farre as they are otherwise fit : ) as they seeme to imply that which contradicts the maine scope of the question ; so they are so generall and of such a latitude , as that when the question is answered the reader is still left at uncertainty : for if such a parenthesis may be annexed ( so farre as men are otherwise fit : ) then the like question may be applied to many other things besides baptisme , and would receive the very same answer , as in case of baptisme it would receive . as for example , if one should aske whether morall honestie or litterall knowledge in the scriptures , or historicall faith , or the use of reason , whether any of these doe not give men right to church priviledges , so farre as they are otherwise fit ? you know the answer would be , yea. for though none of these be sufficient alone , to give men right to the priviledges of the church , yet they are such as they that have them , have right so farre as they are otherwise fit , and so if it were granted that they that have received baptisme have right , as you say , to all the priviledges of the church , so farre as they are otherwise fit : yet as this doth not prove that baptisme alone doth give men such a right , so still it remaines to be considered , and more particularly declared , what those other things are that besides baptisme must concurre to make one fit ; and unlesse those things be expressed in particular , the question with such a generall qualification as is here set down , may be answered affirmatively , and yet the reader will be still in the darke , and as much to seeke as before . lastly , those words in the latter end of this question had need to be further cleared , wherein you aske , whether baptised persons have not right to all the priviledges of the church , quoad nos , untill they be cast out by excommunication ? for suppose an open blasphemer , a sabath-breaker , an adulterer , a drunkard , &c. that deserves to be excommunicated , be not proceeded against according to rule , but be suffered to continue in the church through bribery or other corruption of the times , would you say that such a person had right either before god , or quoad nos to all the priviledges of the church , onely because hee is baptised ? surely your words doe import so much , unlesse that parenthesis ( so far as they are otherwise fit ) may be any helpe in this case . and yet we hope you doubt not but such doggs and swine have no right either quoad nos , or otherwise , to the priviledges of the church as long as they continue in that state , although they have received baptisme , and although through the sinfull neglect of men they be not cast out by excommunication , as they doe deserve ; for if grosse sinners have such right to church priviledges , onely because they are baptised , then by what right can the church cast them out by excommunication , as you seeme to confesse that she may : for can she castimen out from such priviledges whereunto they have right ? doubtlesse such proceedings were not right , unlesse the church have such a transcendent power as the apostles never had , for they could do nothing against the truth but for the truth , nor had they any power for destruction , but for edification , 2 cor. 13. 8. 10. wherefore we dare not say such men have right to church priviledges ( quoad nos ) untill they be actually cast out , because before they be cast out , it must be cleare to the church , that they have no such right , or else she can have no lawfull right to cast them out . 1. infants with us are admitted members in and with their parents , so as to be admitted to all church priviledges of which infants are capable , as namely to baptisme ; and therefore when parents are once admitted , their children are thereupon baptised , if they were not baptised afore , as sometimes it falls out . 2. but whether they should thereupon be admitted to all other priviledges when they come to age , without any personall profession of faith , or entring into church covenant , is another question , of which by reason of the infancy of these churches , we have had no occasion yet to determine what to judge or practise one way or other . 3. but for the present this we would say ; it seemes by those words of your parenthesis ( being otherwise fit ) you do acknowledge , that children of church members are not to be admitted to church priviledges , unlesse they be fit , wherein we consent with you as counting it altogether unsafe , that idiots , franticks , or persons openly ungracious and prophane , should be admitted to the lords table , though they were the children of church members , and thence we may inferre the necessity of their personall profession of their faith , when they come to yeares , and taking hold of church-covenant , whereby we meane onely a renewing of covenant , or a new professing of their interest in gods covenant , and walking according to it , when they shall be adulti : for otherwise we do confesse , children that are borne when their parents are church members , are in covenant with god even from their birth , gen. 17. 7. 12. and their baptisme did seale it to them . but notwithstanding their birthright , we conceive there is a necessity of their personall profession of faith , and taking hold of church-covenant when they come to yeares ( though you seeme to thinke it not needfull : ) for without this it cannot so well be discerned ; what fitnesse is in them for the lords table and other church priviledges , as by this meanes it might ? and inasmuch as entring into church-covenant is nothing else but a solemne promise to the lord , before him and the church , to walke in all such wayes as the gospel requireth of church members , if they shall refuse to make any such promise , and shall be unable , or unwilling to make any profession of their faith , when it is required of them , this would be an evidence against them , of their unfitnesse for church priviledges , inasmuch as they openly breake that rule , 1 pet. 3. 15. be ready to give a reason of the hope that is in you with meeknesse and feare . what hope is there that they will examine themselves when they eat of that bread and drinke of that cup , 1 cor. 11. 28. who when others do examine them they are unable or unwilling to give answer ? or how shall we thinke that they will receive the lords supper worthily , or walke as becomes the gospel if they do refuse to professe or promise any such matter ? wherefore in this point we cannot but fully approve the practise of the reformed churches , among whom it is the manner as zepporus writeth , to admit children that were baptised in their infancy unto the lords table , by publique profession of their faith , and entring into covenant , consuetum est , saith he ut qui per aetatem , neque doctrina catechetica perfectum ad sacram coenam primum admittuntur , fidei confessionem coram tota ecclesiâ publicè edant , &c. polit. ecles . l. 1. c. 14. p. 158. that is , the manner is , that they who by reason of age and perficiency in the doctrine of catechisme are first admitted to the lords supper , should publiquely before the whole church , make confession of their faith , being brought forth into the sight of the church by their parents , or them that are instead of parents , at the appointment of the minister : and likewise should promise and covenant by the grace of god to continue in that faith which they have confessed , and to leade their lives according to it : yea and moreover , to subject themselves freely and willingly to the discipline of the church ; these words we see are full and plaine , that children are not in those churches received to the lords table without personall confession of faith , and entring into covenant before . 4. but how long children should be counted under age , and whether orphans are not to be admitted with their guardians ( which is your sixt quaery ) we should be willing to heare your judgement therein , as having of our selves hitherto had no occasion to search into those questions ; onely this we thinke , that one certaine rule cannot be given for all , whereby to determine how long they are under age , but according as god gives experience and maturity of naturall understanding , and spirituall ; which he gives sooner to some then unto others . such children whose father and mother were neither of them believers , and sanctified , are counted by the apostle ( as it seemes to us ) not faederally holy , but uncleane , what ever their other ancestors have been , 1 cor. 7. 14. and therefore we baptise them not . if you can give us a sufficient answer , to take us off from that scripture , 1 cor. 7. which seemes to limit this faederall sanctity or holynesse to the children whose next parents one or both were believers , we should gladly hearken to you therein ; but for the present , as we believe we speake , and practise according to our light . and if we should goe one degree beyond the next parents , we see not but we may goe two , and if two , why not 3. 4 20 , 100 , or 1000 ? for where will you stop ? and if we shall admit all children to baptisme , whose ancestors within a thousand generations have been believers , as some would have us , we might by this reason baptise the children of turkes , and of all the indians , and barbarians in the country ; for there is none of them but they have had some believing ancestors within lesse then a 1000. generations , it being farre from so much since noah and his sonnes came forth out of the arke . we do believe that all members of churches ought to be saints , and faithfull in christ jesus , eph. 1. 1. 1 cor. 1. 2. col. 1. 2. phil. 1. 1. and thereupon we count it our duty to use all lawfull and convenient meanes , whereby god may helpe us to discerne , whether those that offer themselves for church members , be persons so qualified or no : and therefore first we heare them speake concerning the gift and grace of justifying faith in their soules , and the manner of gods dealing with them in working it in their hearts : which seemes to be your first particular in this quaery . secondly , we heare them speake what they do believe concerning the doctrine of faith , so taking a tryall what measure they have of the good knowledge of the lord , as knowing that without knowledge men cannot well examine themselves and discerne the lords body , as church members ought to doe when they come to the lords table . and hereby also we would prevent ( as the lord shall helpe us ) the creeping in of any into the church that may be infected with corrupt opinions of arminianisme familisme , &c. or any other dangerous error against that faith which was once delivered to the saints , as knowing how easily such men if they were admitted , might infect others , and perhaps destroy the faith of some . and this seemes to be intended in your second particular . for both these we have our warrant as in generall , from those places which shew how church members ought to be qualified , that they ought to be saints , faithfull in christ jesus , &c. so in speciall from that , math. 3. 6. acts 19 18 , & acts 8. 37. 38. where men before they were admitted , made profession of repentance towards god , and faith towards the lord jesus christ ; for it is expressely said , that they confessed their sinnes , they confessed and shewed their deeds , they professed their faith in jesus christ the sonne of god. thirdly , when this is done , those that by manifestation of repentance and faith are approved ; as fit members for a church do openly professe their subjection to the gospel of christ , and to all the ordinances of god in that church , where now they joyne as members , which seemes to be your third particular in this quaerie . the distinction of particular churches one from another , as severall and distinct societies , seemes to us a necessary ground for this practise ; for without this kinde of covenanting , we know not how it would be avoyded , but all churches would be confounded into one , inasmuch as it is neither faith , nor intire affection , nor towne-dwelling , nor frequenting the assemblies that can make a man a member , or distinguish church members from other men : see the apologie . 4. your fourth particular in this quaerie is answered in the answer to the sixt position sent the last yeare : besides all these , we heare the testimony of others , if there be any that can speake of the conversion and godly conversation of such persons : which we judge to be a warrantable course from acts 9. 26 , 27. it is the second of your quaeries , what things we hold necessary to the being of a true visible church in generall : which being answere● ; this of the parish assemblies in england in particular , whether we hold all or the most of them to be churches , we conceive might well have been spared . they that now the state of those assemblies may make application of the generall to the particulars , if they have a calling therunto . yet because you are pleased to put us to this also , we thus answer . 1. that we doubt not but of ancient time there have been many true churches in england consisting of right matter , and compacted and united together by the right forme of an holy covenant . for mr. fox sheweth at large , that the gospel was brought into england in the apostles times , or within a little while after , acts & mo● . lib. 2. begining p. 137. where hee reporteth out of gildas , that england received the gospel in the time of tiberius the emperor , under whom christ suffered ; and that joseph of arin . athea was sent of philip the apostle from france to england , about the yeare of christ 63. and remained in england all his time , and so hee with his fellowes laid the first foundation of christian faith among the brittaine people , and other preachers and teachers comming afterwards , confirmed the same and increased it . also the said mr. fox reporteth out of t●rtullian , that the gospel was disperced abroad by the sound of the apostles into many nations , and amongst the rest into brittaine , yea into the wildest places of brittaine , which the romans could never attaine unto , and alledgeth also out of necephorus , that simon zelotes did spread the gospell to the west ocean , and brought the same into the iles of brittanie , and sundry other proofs he there hath for the same point . now if the gospel and christian religion were brought into england in the apostles times , and by their meanes , it is like there were churches planted there of saints by calling ( which is the right matter of churches ) and by way of holy covenant , as the right form : for that was the manner of constituting churches in the apostles times , as also in the times afore christ , as hath been shewed from the scripture in the apologie . and the footsteps hereof ( though mixed with manifold corruptions that have growne in aftertimes ) are remaining in many places of the land to this day , as appeareth by those 3 questions and answers at baptisme . abrenuntias ? abrenuntio ; credis ? credo : spondes ? spondeo : dost thou renounce the devill and all his works ? i renounce them all . dost thou believe in god the father & c ? i do believe . dost thou promise to walk according to this faith & c ? i do promise . for though it may be they conceived , that men entred into the church by baptisme , yet hereby it appears that their judgment was that , when men entred into the church there ought to be a renouncing of sin , and believing on christ , and an open professing of these things , with a promise to walk accordingly . secondly , though popish apostacy did afterwards for many ages over-spread all the churches in england ( as in other countries ) yet we believe god still reserved a remnant according to the election of grace amongst them , for whose sake he reserved the holy scriptures amongst them , and baptisme in the name of the trinity onely . and when god of his rich grace was pleased to stirre up the spirit of king edward the sixth , and queene elizabeth to cast off the pope and all fundamentall errors in doctrine and worship , and a great part of the tyranny of popish church government though at first some shires and sundry parishes stood out against that reformation for a time , yet afterwards they generally received the articles of religion agreed upon anno 1562. which are published and consented to by all the ministers endowed in every congregation , with the silent consent also of the people , and subscription of the hands of the chiefe of them ; wherein they do acknowledge no rule of faith or manners , but the holy scriptures ; no divine worship but to god onely ; no mediation nor salvation but in christ onely : no conversion by mans free will , but by gods free grace : no justification but by faith : no perfection nor merit of works , with sundry other necessary and saving truths ; all which containing the marrow and summe of the oracles of god wich are the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the eloquia des , concredited onely to the church . rom. 3. 1. 2. and which are that saving doctrine of truth , which is fruitfull in all the world where it comes , ●olo . 1. 5 , 6. and upon which the church is grounded and built , and which also it holdeth forth and maintaineth , 1 tim. 3. 15. ) we do therefore acknowledge , that where the people do with common and mutuall consent gather into setled congregations ordinarily every lords day , as in england they do , to heare and teach this doctrine , and do professe their subjection therunto , and do binde themselves and their children ( as in baptisme they do ) to continue therein , that such congregations are true churches , notwithstanding sundry defects and dangerous corruptions found in them , wherein we follow the judgement of calvin instit . 4. 1. 9. 10. &c. w●itaker , de notis ●cclesiae cap. 17. and many other divines of chiefe note : nor can we judge or speake harshly of the wombes that bare us , nor of the paps which gave us suck . thirdly , but inasmuch as grievous corruptions of latter yeares have greatly increased in some of those assemblies ( as we heare ) both in doctrine , in worship , and in the government thereof , besides those that were when some of us were there , and in former yeares : therefore we are not without feare ( and with griefe we speake it ) what things may come unto at length . if corruptions should still increase and grow ' they might come in time ( if the lord be not more mercifull ) unto such an height as unto obstinacy in evill , and to wilifull rejection of reformation , and the meanes thereof ; and then you know it might be just with god to cast off such utterly , out of the account and number of his churches ; so as never to walke among them any more : which we heartily pray the father of mercies to prevent that such a day may never be : but if ephesus repent not of her declinings , the lord hath threatned that he will come unto her quickly , and remove her candlesticke ; that is , he will un-church them , rev. 2. 4 , 5. and lukewarme laodicea shall be spewed out of his mouth , rev. 3. 16. and therefore it behoves such of them to repent , and reform themselves betime , lest the lord deale with them as he ha●h done with others . and it much concernes your selves ( in hearty love and faithfullnesse we speake i● , and so we desire you wou●d accept of it ) it very much concernes you ( deare brethren ) whil'st you live amongst them , to beare faithfull witnesse against the corruptions that are remaining in any of them , in respect of their constitution , worship , d●scipline and ministerie , l●st by any sinnefull silence or slacknesse of yours that should blow the trumpet and stand in the gap , the breach should be made wider , and the iniquity increase ; and lest men should flatter themselves in their sinnes , under the name and title of the true church , as the jewes thought themselves secure because of the temple of the lord , jer. 7. 4. 4. because you would know not onelie whether we count those assemblies to b● churches , but what wee would doe for joining in gods worship in them , if occasion served thereunto : we answer , that if we were in england , we should willingly joine in ▪ some parts of gods true worship , and namely in hearing the word , where it is truely preached in sundry assemblies there ; yea though we doe not know them to bee churches , or knew not what they were , whether true churches or no ? for some worship , as praier , and preaching , and hearing the word , is not peculiar to church assemblies , but may be performed in other meetings . mars-hill at athens was no church , nor the prison at philippi , and yet the word of god was preached and heard lawfully w●th good successe in th●se places , act. 17. and act. 16. how much more might it bee lawfull to heare the w●rd in many parish assemblies in england , in when gener●lly there is a professing of christ ; and in many of them : m●n , soul●s that are sincere and upright hearted christians , as any are this day upon the face of the earth ; and m●ny congregations indeed that are the true churches of jesus christ , see mr. robinsons treatise of the lawfullnesse of hearing the ministers in the church of england . 5. but why we durst not partake in their prescript lyturgie , and such ordinances though true , as are administred therein ; we gave you account the last yeare , in answer to the first and second position : as al●o in an answer to a discourse of that subject , penned by our reverend brother mr. ball. what we have done in our ignorance whil'st we lived amongst you , wee have seene cause rather to bewaile it in our selves here , then to it in others there . our answer to this question is this , 1. that we never yet knew any to come from england in such a manner as you do here describe ( ● the things you mention may be taken conjunctim , and not severally ) viz : to be men famously known to be godly , and to bring sufficient testimoniall thereof from others that are so knowne , and from the congregation it selfe , whereof they were members : we say we never yet knew any to come to us from thence in such a manner , but one or other of the things here mentioned are wanting : and generally this is wanting in all of them , that they bring no testimoniall from the congregation it selfe : and therefore no marvell if they have not beene admitted ( further then before hath been expressed in answer to quest . 1. ) to church ordinances with us , before they have joyned to one or other of our churches ; for though some that come over bee famously knowne to our selves to be godly , or bring sufficient testimoniall with them from private christians , yet neither is our knowledge of them , nor testimonal from p●ivate christians sufficient to give us church-power over them , which wee had need to have , if we must dispence the ordinances of church communion to them ? though it be sufficient to procure all due reverent respect , and hearty love to them in the lord. 2. if the things mentioned were all to be found , yet it w●u●d be also requisite ( if they would partake of church ordinances with us , and yet not joyne to any of our churches ) that w●● should know the congregation it selfe , from which they come , not onely to be a true church , but also what manner of one it is : for such persons cannot communicate with us in church ordinances in their owne right ; because they joine not as members in any of our churches ; but it must be in right of the congregation in england , to which they doe belong , and by virtue of the communion of churches , and so our admitting of them to communion with us in such a manner , and upon such terms , is not only an act of communion with the persons themselves , but also with the congregation of which they are : now as we cannot of faith admit men to church ordinances , which we believe belong only to church members ; unles we know the congregation of which they are members to be a true church . so somtimes a congregation may be so corrupt , that though it doe remain a true church , yet for the corruption and impurities of it , it may be lawfull and necessary to withdraw communion from the same ( for which dr. ames gives sundry grounds and reasons , cas . cons . lib. c. 12. q. 3. resp . 2. ) or at least to protest against some grosse corruptions therein . in regard whereof we had need to have some knowledge and information what that congregation is , with whom now we have church communion ; when in heir right wee admit m●n into communion , that wee may know how to admit such m●n , and what to require from them more or l●sse . and this together with that want of testimoniall from the congregation is one main● reason , why some few godly men that have come from england upon occasion , not with purpose of continuance here , but of returning again● ; have not beene received to church ordinances during thei● abode in the countrey ( though this we may say also , that we know not of any such that have requested to be received ) whereas ●uch as have come in l●ke manner from one c●u●ch to another m●ngst our selves , upon their requ●st have been r●ceived : the reason ne say is , because these churc●es are better knowne then the parish assemblies are . 3. but if men come from one church in this countrey to another with purpose there to stay , and not to returne to the church from whence they came , ( which is the manner of all , or the most that come from england ) they are not rec●ived into our churches ; but upon the very same tearmes , and in the same manner , as men are received that come from england ; viz : upon personall profession of their faith , and entring into church covenant , in that church to which they now come ( and the same we say of such as come from any of the churches in other countries ) and wherefore are they not received otherwise , because we renounce the church of which they were members as no true church ? not so , but because wee believe in matter of faith , ( such as is the admitting of members ) any true church may erre : and there may now bee seene some unworthinesse in the man which did not appeare when hee was admitted in the other church : and therefore no reason that the act of one church in the admitting of members or the like , should bee a binding rule unto another ; for all churches are left to their liberty to admit and receive such into their chu●ch ; as they shal find to be fit according to the rule of the word , and to refuse others , without respect of what they have bin before , whether members of this church , or that church , or of any church , or none : and therefore in this , our walking and practice , is alike towards one another , and towards others as it is towards yours . in which practise we are not alone , for the very same as mr. parker reporteth , is the manner of the reformed churches , amongst whom , no man is admitted for a member ; but upon personall profession of faith , and entring into church covenant , though it may be he have formally beene admitted in the very same manner in the church where he lived before , polit. eccles . l. 3. c. 16. 3. 4. p. 171. if the ground of this qu. were any doubt in your owne consciences concerning your owne way , there were no fault in propounding such a qu. for further light and satisfaction , if wee were able to give it . or if it did ari●e from any unnecessary intermedling of ours in your matters , so as to take on us to condemne or judge your present standing , when we have no calling thereunto , there were then reason why we should give account of our owne doings or sayings . but if it came from some men we should looke at it as a tempting question , tending onely to make matter , and pick quarrells ; and then we should leave it to them that framed it , to consider the ground of it ; and to fr●me their owne answer to it . as for us , we have alwayes been slow and loth to judge or condemne your present standing ; remembring the saying of the apostle , who art thou that judgest another mans servant , he standeth or falleth to his own master , rom. 14. 4. but now knowing you well ( reverend and deare brethren ) and your integrity , we thinke wee may lawfully and safely answer , and that wee would doe by promising a few distinctions , for explaining the termes of the question . 1. concerning the persons in the parish assemblies , which may be meant of such as the providence of god hath so dispos●d that they are free and at liberty : or of such as are bound , and it may be not sui juris , as wives , children under the government of parents , servants , apprentices , prisoners , sickefolkes , &c. 2. concerning the parish assemblies , which may bee meant either of such as want the preaching of the word or sacraments , or discipline , or any other holy ordinance of christ , or have many ordinances in them which are not of god , but of men : or else it may be meant of some others , which in both respects are reformed and pure , if there be any such . 3. concerning standing in them , which may be meant onely of habitation , and dwelling upon house or land within the precincts of the parish ; or else in conforming in judgement or practise to the corrupt ecc●esiasticall ordinances used in those assemblies ; and contenting themselves therewith . 4. concerning lawfull and safe ; where safety may be meant either of safety from sinne , or from danger by persecution , these distinctions wee judge necessary to bee premised , because your question is , whether wee count your standing in the parish assemblies lawfull and safe ; or how farre it may be so ? and so our answer is in 3. propositions . 1. some persons , and namely those that are not sui juris , may lawfully and without sinne ; though it may bee not safely without danger of persecution , continue such standing in the parish assemblies , as doe dwell within the pr●c●●cts of them , so long as they neither conforme themselves to the corruptions of men by such continuing of their standing , nor live in the neglect or want of any ordinance of christ through their owne default . 2. such standing in the parish assemblies , where a man shall , and must conforme to the corruptions of men , in doctrine or worship ; or the government of the chu●ch , is not lawfull for any to be continued in . 3. to continue such standing in the parish assemblies , as to live in the want of any ordinance of christ is not lawfull , nor can be done safely without sinne of them , to whom the providence of god doth open a doore of further enlargement . the first of these propositions wee suppose you doubt not of . the second is confirmed by many places of scripture ; and namely by such as these . though israel play the harlot , yet let not iudah offend , and come not yee to gilgall , nor go up to bethaven , nor sweare the lord liveth : ephraim is joyned to idolls , let him alone , hos , 4. 15. 17. come out from among them , and be ye separate saith the lord , and touch no uncleane thing , and i will receive you , 2 cor. 6. 17. be not partaker of other mens sinnes , keep thy selfe pure , 1 tim. 5. 22. come out of her my people , that yee bee not partakers of her sinnes , and that yee receive not of her plagues , rev. 18. 4. have no fellowship with the unfruitfull works of darkenesse , but reprove them rather , eph. 5. 11. ephraim is oppressed and broken in judgment ; because he willingly walked after the commandement , hos . 5. 11. wee ought to obey god rather then men , act. 4 19. and 5. 29. jeroboam made priests of the lowest of the people , which were not of the sonnes of levi , and ordained a feast in the fifteenth day of the eigth moneth , in the month which he had devised of his ●w●e heart , &c. and then the levites left their suburbs and their posessions , and came to iudah and ierusalem , for ieroboam and his sonnes had cast them off from executing the priests office unto the lord ; and after them out of all the tribes of israell , such as set their hearts to seek the lord god of israel , came to ierusalem to sacrifice to the lord god of their fathers , 1 king. 12. 31 32 33. with 2 chron. 11. 14. 16. vpon these and such like grounds of holy scripture we are perswaded that such standing in the parish assemblies , as this second proposition mentions , is not lawfull for any to be continued in . and we hope , you doubt not of the truth of this second proposition neither , though we are afraid that many christians , when it comes to practice , doe sinfully pollute themselves by partaking in the ceremonies , and other corruptions in the prayers , in the doctrine , and in the ministery remaining in sundry of those assemblies , whom it will bee your part whilst you live among them faithfully and by all good meanes to instruct and teach , and exhort , to save themselves from the corruptions and pollutions of the times and places wherin they live ; as well in this particular of church matters , and gods worship as in other things : wherein wee wish with all our hearts that our selves when time was , had been more watchfull and faithfull to god and the soules of his people , then the best of us were : the lord lay not our ignorance to our charge . the third proposition may bee made good sundry wayes , 1. by precepts , wherin we are commanded to observe all things whatsoeuer christ hath commanded , mat. 28. 20. to seeke the kingdom of god and his righteousnesse , mat. 6. 33. to yeild our selves unto the lord , and to enter into his sanctuary , 2 chr. 30. 8. and therefore we may not please our selves to live in the neglect of any ordinance which he hath instituted and appointed . 2. by examples , for the spouse of christ will not rest seeking her beloved untill shee finde him in the fullest manner , cant. 1. 7 , 8. and 3. 1 , 2. &c. and the same minde was in david ; as appeares by his heavy lamentation , when he wanted the full fruition of gods ordinances , and his longings , and prayer to be restored thereto , psal . 63. and psal . 42. and 84. although he enjoyed abiathar the high priest , and the ephod with him ; and likewise gad the prophet , 1 sam. 23. 6 , 9 , 10. &c. 1 sam. 22. 5. when good ezra in his journey from babilon to ierusalem , viewing the people at the river ahava found none of the sonnes of levi there , afore he would goe any further , he sent unto iddo a the place ca●iphia for ministers for the house of god , ezra 8. 15. 16. &c. and when being come to ierusalem they found by the law , that it was an ordinance of god to dwell in boothes , and keepe the feast of tabernacles in the seventh month , they presently set upon the practice thereof , in the appointed season ; when the like had not beene done in israel , from the dayes o● ioshua the son of nun unto that day , neh. 8. 14. &c. yea , and our lord jesus himselfe , though ●ee had no need of sacraments , to be to him any scale of remission or forgivenesse of sinnes , yet in conscience to the ordinance of god , ( that he might fullfill all righteousnesse , mat. 3. 15 ▪ ) and for our example , did both observe the passover , and likewise was baptized , and did eat with his disciples at his last supper . all which examples being written for our learning , doe shew us how farre wee should bee from contenting our selves to live in the voluntary want of any ordinance and appointment of god. 3. there is none of the ordinances of christ , but they are needfull and very profitable in the right use of them to the soules of his servants : and therefore they should not be neglected . to thinke of any of them , as things that may well bee spared ; and therefore to content our selves to be without them , is to call in question the wisdome of him that did appoint them , and to make our selves wiser then god. 4. our owne infirmities and spirituall w●nts are such , as that wee have continuall need of all the holy meanes which the lord hath appointed , for supplying what is wanting in us ; for correcting what is amisse ; and for our continuance and growth in grace . hee is a proud man , and knowes not his own heart in any measure , who thinkes he may well be without any spirituall institution and ordinance of jesus christ . upon these and such like ground , we hold i● not lawfull nor safe , for any christian that is free , to continue such standing in the parish assemblies where he cannot enjoy all the spiritual and holy ordinances of christ . and hereupon we do exhort you lovingly in the lord , to take heed that this be not the sinne of any of you , nor of any other , whom your example may embolden thereunto : for necessity is laid upon you , and upon all christians , by th●se and such like grounds of the holy word of the lord ; that neither you , nor others doe live in the voluntary want of any holy ordinance of christ jesus , but either ●et them up , and observe them in the places where you are ; or else ( if you bee free ) to remove for the enjoyment of them , to some place where they may be had ; and it may be of the two , rather this latter . for sometimes i● israel sacrifice to their god in the land , they shall sacrifice the abomination of the egyptians to the lord : and ●o say they , shall wee sacrifice the abomination of the egyptians before their eyes , and will they not stone us ? it is better therefore in such a case to goe into the wildernesse , and to do it there , exo. 8. 25. 26 , 27. hos . 2. 14. mat. 10. 23. as for that opinion that may be in the minds of some , that if any ordinance of goa be wanting , it is the sinne of them that are in authority , and they must answer for it ? but the people of god may without sinne , live in the want of such ordinances as superiors provide not for them . the answer hereuntois , that indeed the ordinances of god may more peaceably and quietly bee observed where the commandement and countenance of magistrates is afforded ; for then is fullfilled the saying that is written , kings shall bee thy nursing fathers , and queens thy nursing mothers , esa . 49. 23. and doubtlesse it is a great blessing , when god ( that hath the hearts of kings and princes in his hands , prov. 21. 1. ) doth incline them to favour , and further the service of the house of god , as somtimes he doth , even when themselves are alients and strangers . cyrus , darius , and artaxerxes , gave great countenance and incouragement to the jewes to build the house of god , that they might offer sacrifices of sweet savour to the god of heaven , and pray for the life of the king and of his sonnes , ezra 6. 8 9 , 10. i● which case good ezra blesseth the lord , that had put such a thing into the kings heart , to beautifie the house of the god of heaven , ezra 7. 27. and therefore kings and all in authority , should be prayed for , that we may lead a godly and peaceable life , in godlinesse and honesty , 1 tim. 2. 1 , 2. neverthelesse , the things that are ordained and commanded of god , the observing of them in a peaceable way ( yeilding out reverence to all that are in authority , and praying for them ) this observing of the ordinances of god cannot be unlawfull , for lack of the commandement of man , as appeares by the doctrine and pract●ce of the apostles , act. 4. 19. & 5. 29. and the approved practise of believers in their times , if they had neglected the ordinances of god and namely church ordinances , till they had had the commandement of magistrate therein , such neglect would have beene their grievous sinne , and for ought we know they might have lived and died without them , the magistrates at that time be●ng all either heathens or jewes , yet enemies ; and if church communion and the exercise of such ordinances , as christ hath appointed for his churches , was lawfull , and needfull , and profitable , when magistrates were enemies to the gospell ; and bee not so when magistrates doe professe the gospell , we doe not see but christians may sometimes be losers by having christian magistrates , and in worse condition , then if they had none but professed e●emies . besides this , if ▪ superiors should neglect to provide bodily sustenance for them that are under their charge ; we doe not thinke that any mans conscience would be so scrupulous , but hee would thinke it lawfull b●y all good meanes to provide for himself in such case , rather then to sit ▪ still and say , if i perish for hunger , it is the sinne of them that have authority over mee , and they must answer for it : neither can we tell how the conscience of any christian can excuse himself , if he thinks no● the ordinances of christ , as necessary for the good of his soule , as food is necessary for his temporall life ; or doe not willingly in this spirituall hunger break through stone walls as the proverbe i● , and runne from sea to sea to seeke god in his owne way , rather then to perish without spirituall food , because others provide not for him . and this is our answer to this eleventh quere , concerning your standing in the parish assemblies : which answer of ours , and the exhortation therein , as we pray the father of mercies to make effectuall by his blessing for those good ends , which wee intend therein , so wee cannot in the same , but reflect upon our selves and our owne wayes in times past ; as seeing not a little cause to judge our selves before the lord , as long as wee live , for our sinfull ignorance and negligence , when wee were in england , ●o observe and walke according to those rules of the word , which now upon occasion given by this qu. wee doe commend to your selves and other christians . the lord in mercy pardon our offences , and direct your selves and his servants in ●ur deare native countrey , both in remaining and removing to doe that which is pleasing in his sight . whereas this qu. in the first clause and last but one compared together speakes of believers out of the kingdome of god , and possibility of salvation , we conceive it is a contradiction , for those that are true believers , cannot be out of possibility of salva●on , but possibly may , yea most undoubtedly shall bee saved , joh. 3. 16. and 5. 24. the contrary whereof is to overthrow all the promises of the gospell , and with the papists and arminians to establish falling from grace . 2. for that saying , extra ecclesiam non est salus , wee conceive it cannot be universally true , if it be meant of the visible church , which in the new-testament is a particular congregation ; but onely being taken for the church invisible , or the vniversall church , which is the whole company of the elect in heaven , in earth , and not yet borne , ioh. 10. 16. and 17. 20. out of which elected company there is not one that shall be saved , nor any of the elect neither , but in the way of regeneration , ioh 3. 3. but as for the visible , we believe the old saying is true , there are many wolves within , and many sheepe without , joh. 10. 16. and therefore it cannot be universally true , that out of the visible church there is no salvation : inasmuch as all christs sheepe shall be saved , ioh. 10. 28. of whom yet notwithstanding there are some not joyned to the visible church : if the thiefe that repented on the crosse was a gentile , as it was possible he was ; then hee was uncircumcised , and then it will trouble a man to tell of what visible church he was : and yet there is no doubt but he was saved . the like may be said of iob and of his friends , of whose salvation we make no question , and yet it is a great question whether they were of any visible church or no , inasmuch as the visible church in those times seemed to be appropriated to the house and posterity of abraham , isaac , and iacob , of which line & race it cannot easily be proved that all these men did come , nor that they joined themselves in visible fellowship with that church . the centurion , mat. 8. 10. and the woman of canaan , mat. 15. were both of them believers and saved , and yet it doth not appeare that they were members of the visible church of the iews , which was the only visible church of god in those times . men of yeares ought to be believers , and so in the state of salvation afore they be joyned to the visible church , and therefore there may be salvation out of that church : for it is possible that such an one as being a believer is fit to bee joyned to the church m●y di● and depart this life afore hee can bee joyned , as that good emperour valenti●ian 2. died before hee could bee baptize● . and for your selves if you should thinke that baptisme makes men members of the visible church ; as is intimated in your fourth question : you may not then deny but there may be salvation out of the visible church : unlesse you will say that there is no salvation without baptisme , which we believe is farre from you to imagine . 3. we doe hold that so ; oft and so long as a believer doth not joyne himselfe as a member to some particular congregation or other , so oft and so long : he is without the church in the apostles sence , 1 cor. 5. for the church in the apostles sence , is a particular congregation ; for he writeth to , and of the church at corinth , which church was a particular congregation , 1 cor. 5 , 4 , & 14. 23. & 11. 17. 20. and having power of judgeing her own members ( as all visible churches have ) yet had no power of judgeing any , but such as were within that particular congregation , as all them they had power to judge , whether they were believers in christ or no. mr. b●i●● ( as we said before ) is very large and cleare in proving this position , that the churches instituted by christ and the apostles , were only such as might meet in one congregation ordinarily , and answers many objections to the contrary , di●ces . tryal . q. 1. 4. for the question it selfe , we hold that every believer ( if possibly he can ) is alwayes bound to joyne himselfe as a member to some particular congregation or other ; and yet not because , else he is a heathen and publican , or out of possibilitie of salvation , as this question suggests , but upon other grounds . 1. because of the commandment of god , cant. 1. 8. math. 6. 10. 33. 2. because willingly not to doe this is a secret disparagement to the wisdome of god that hath ordained ▪ churches with giving power and privilegdes therunto mat. 18. 17. 1 cor. 5. 4. and promises of his gracions presence to be with them and amongst them , mat. 18. 20. rev. 2. 1. exod. 20. 24. now to what end were all these , if believers should live and no● joyne themselves to some church ? these priviledges and promises would in such case be all in vain , and the mercy of god offered therin , unthankfully neglected . thirdly , voluntarily abstaining from joyning to the church is noted and condemned as a sinne , heb. 10. 25. and a signe of fearefull unbelievers , act. 5. 13. of the rest durst no man joyne unto them . fourthly , good men in scripture have been forward in practise this way , isay 2. 2 , 3. zach. 8. 23. act. 2. 41 , 42. and 9. 26. and have mourned with much bitternesse when they have been deprived of liberty so to doe , isay 56. 3. and ps . 42. and 63. and 84. fiftly , this joyning is a part of that order , and orderly walking which is required of believers , col. 2. 5. 1 cor. 14. 40. sixtly , if believers doe neglect this joyning , it is not onely a wrong to themselves , but also a great unkindnesse to god : for if one believer may doe this , why not another , and if two why not three , foure &c. and ▪ if all believers should doe thus , god should have no visible churches upon earth , unles he will acknowledge the assemblies to be of unbelievers churches : foras stones in the mountains are not an house untill they be joyned together , though they be digged up out of the quarry , and squared & hewn , and hereby are made fit to be joyned together , and so to become an house : so believers are not a church till they be joyned in holy covenant in some congregation , though the worke , of grace and faith in their soules have made them fit , and meete to be a church of god , which is the house of the living god : or as the humane soule and body are not a man unlesse they be united ; so christian or believers are not a visible church without visible union into some particular . congregation . mr. perkins having said that forth of the militant church : there are no meanes of salvation , no preaching of gods word , no invocation of gods name , no sacraments , and therefore no salvation ; concludes with these words ; for this cause every man must be admonished evermore to joyn himselfe to some particular church , being a sound member of the catholick church , expos . of creed in the article of the church ; and doctor ames gives 6. reasons , why every christian should ioyne himselfe to some particular church or other cas . cons● . l. 4. c. 24. q. 1. and in another place he hath these words . illi igitur qui ▪ occasion●● habent adjungendi sese ecclesiae , & ●am negligunt , gravissimè peccant , non tantum in deum ratione institutionis , sed etiam in suas proprias animas ratione benedictionis adjunctae , etsi obstinatè persistant in ipsa incu●ia , quicquid alias profitentur , vix possunt haberi pro fidelibus regnum dei verè quaerentibus . medul . theol. l. 1. c. 32. sect. 28. first , whereas this 13th . question speakes of private and illiterate persons into a church body combined , wee looke at this as an incongruous expression , if not a contradiction . for a company so combined as to make a church , are not fitly called private , ( though they be illiterate in respect of humane learning ) in as much as a church or a church-body , especially in times and places of peace and liberty , is a publike congregation and society : and the acts of communion which they have among themselves ( such as is the election and deposing of ministers , whereof the question makes mention ) are not private acts but publike or people-like . neither are literate or learned men therefore publike , because they are indued with humane learning , unlesse withall they be called to publike office or imployment in church or common-wealth : and therefore if illiterate be an exegesis of private , we conceive that exegesis is not good . secondly , whereas this question asketh whether it be lawfull and convenient that such a company should themselvs ordinarily examine elect , ordain and depose their owne ministers ? if ordinarily be as much as frequently , we answer three things . first , that if one church doe frequently come to such actions , that is , to take in and put out the same men , this is not without suspition of much levity and rashnesse in the people , or unfaithfulnesse or unworthy walking in the ministers , or both ; and therefore ordinar●ly , that is , frequent taking in and putting out againe in this manner , is as much as may be to be avoided . secondly , when such things doe often and frequently fall out , it is doubtlesse a judgement of god upon such a people to have so many changes in their ministers ; as was that of which it was said , three shepheards have i cut off in one moneth , zach. 11. 8. that people should be so oft as sheep having no shepheard ; for the transgression of a land many are the princes thereof , pro. 28. 2. so in like sort for the transgressions of a church many are the ministers thereof ; we meane , when they have many ministers , by the comming in and going out of the same men , or the removing of some and the taking in of others in their roome : for otherwise , it is a blessing of god , when a church is furnished with variety of ministers at the same time , acts 13. 1. & 21. 18. phil. 1. 1. thirdly , yet this word ( ordinarily ) doth seeme to imply , that in your judgement sometimes this may be lawfull and convenient to be done ; now upon the same ground on which it may be done sometimes , upon the same it may be done at other times , if there be just occasion . thirdly , for the assistance of the ministers of other churches , of which this question maketh mention , if this be onely by way of counsell or advice , we know nothing unlawfull or inconvenient in such assistance , because churches are as sisters one to another , cant. 8. 8. and therefore it is our practice in ordination of ministers , as also in removall of them , to have such assistance . but for authority and power , we know none that ministers have properly so called in any congregation or church , save that one , over which the holy ghost hath made them overseers : and therefore we thinke it not lawfull nor convenient , when a church is to ordaine officers , to call in such assistance ( viz. by way of authority or power ) of the ministers of other churches . fourthly , we judge it lawfull and convenient that every church of christ ( what ever their humane learning be , whether much or lesse ) should elect and choose their ministers : god doth not ( for ought we know ) give this power of calling their owne ministers unto such churches as have many learned men in them , and deny it unto others ; but gives it indifferently to every church , as they are a church , and so to one church as much as to another . if we thought you doubted whether the power of calling ministers were given by christ unto the church , we might here alledge many reasons for it ; but this being the constant judgement of the eminent lights of this age , and the former who have been studious of reformation , wee must hope ( till we hear to the contrary ) that your selves do not differ from them in this point . as for us , those grounds and reasons from the holy scripture which are alledged by 1 calvin , 2 zanchius , 3 mr cartwright , 4 dr ames , and ( 5 ) others doe satisfie us in this particular . ( 1 ) institut 4. 3. 14. 15. ( 2 ) de redemp . in 4. praecep . p. 1015. 1016. &c. who alledgeth bucer and musculus . ( 3 ) 1. reply p. 44. &c. ( 4 ) m●dul . theol. l. 1. c. 21. sect. 30 & cas . consc . lib. 4. c. 25. q. 5. ( 5 ) demonist . of disc . c. 4. fifthly as for that objection which seemes to be implyed in the word illiterate , that it should not be lawfull or convenient for a body to choose their owne ministers , because they are illiterate , or want men of humane learning among them , wee further answere thereto ; first , that among us when a company are to be combined into a church-body , ( as you speake ) there is usually one or other among them who doe not want all humane learning but have been trained up in universities and usually have been ministers and preachers of the word in our native countrey , and approved by the godly there ; and are here by the company that doe so combine intended to be chosen afterwards for pastors or teachers : and accordingly , after the church is gathered , are in due time elected and ordained into their places . secondly , but yet if there were none such among them at their first combining and uniting , we doe not see how this could hinder them of liberty to choose ministers to themselves afterward , when god shall send any to them that may be fit for the worke ; because this is a liberty that christ hath purchased for them by his precious bloud , and they that are fit matter to bee combined into a church-body , are not so illiterate but they have learned the doctrine of the holy scripture in the fundamentall points thereof ; they have learned to know the lord and their owne hearts , they have learned christ , the need they have of him , and of all the meanes of enjoying him , the worth that is in him , and the happinesse laid up for them in him : and therefore they may not be reproached as illiterate or unworthy to choose their owne ministers : nay , they have the best learning , without which all other learning is but madnesse and folly , and science falsly so called , 1 tim. 6. 20. and indeed of none account with god , nor available for direction and guidance in the affaires of the house of god , such as is this election of ministers , nor for the salvation of the soule in another world , 1 cor. 1. 19. 20. & 2. 14 ▪ job 32. 8. 9. though it may be , and is very usefull therewith . thirdly , you know and ( we doubt not ) doe abhorre as much as wee the spirit of those men that are proud of their owne learning , and vilified believers in christ for want thereof , saying , doe any of the rulers , or of the pharisees believe in him ? but this people which know not the law are cursed , john 7. 47. 48. 49. first , a company of fourty persons , or twenty , or lesse , is not such a small company , but they may be a church properly and truely so called , if there be nothing against them but this , that such a number may seeme not sufficient : we do not finde that god doth any where say , they must be above fourty , or else they cannot be a church ; and therefore no mortall man can justly say it : nay , rather that speech of christ , of two or three gathered together in his name , matth. 18. 20. doth plainly imply that if there be a greater number then two or three , whom they being not satisfied in the answere of an offendor may appeale unto , and in so doing tell the church , such a small number may be a church , and may have the blessing of his presence to be among them . besides , the time hath been , in the dayes of adam and noah , when there was not fourty persons in the world , and yet adams family in his time , and noah● in his , was in those dayes a church , if there was any church on earth . and if christ and his twelve disciples were the first christian church , it is too much for any man to say , that twenty or fourty is such a small company that they cannot be a church . secondly , for the matter of government , there is a difference between ability and right : in respect of the former , in as much as some cases are more difficult then others , and some churches of lesse spirituall abilities then others , and god doth not afford assistance and direction at some times so much as at others ; therefore in such cases it is requisite that churches should seeke for light , and counsell , and advice , from other churches : as the church at antioch did send unto the church at ierusalem in a question , which could not bee determined among themselves , act. 15. 2. but this is not because they have no right , but when they are not able . thirdly , as for right let it be considered how the church at antioch did long endevour to have ended that matter amongst themselves , before they determined to send to ierusalem , vers . 2. which shewes that they had power or right to have transacted that businesse among themselves , if ability had served ; or otherwise , that endevour had been sinfull , as being a presuming to doe that , whereunto they had no right . we conceive then that every church , properly so called , though they be not above fourty , or twenty persons , or ten , or the least number that you mention , have right and power from christ to transact all their owne ecclesiasticall businesses among themselves , if so be they be able , and carry matters justly , and according to the rules of the word . the power of the keyes , matth. 16. 19. among other things noteth ministeriall or delegated power of government ; and this power is committed by christ unto the church , as may appeare , if wee consider , first , to whom christ directed his speech in that place of scripture ; not to peter alone , but to all the disciples also , for to them all the question was propounded by christ , vers . 15. and ●eter answered in all their names . secondly , that he and they were not then looked upon as apostles , or generall officers of all churches ( for that commission was not yet given them ) but as disciples and beleevers , believing with the heart , and confessing with the mouth jesus christ , the rocke upon whom the church is built ; wherein as they did represent all believers , so in peter and the rest , the keyes are committed to all believers that shall joine together in the same confession , according to the order and ordinance of christ . and therefore afterward this power of government is expresly given to the church , matth. 18. 17. according hereunto in that description of the visible church , as it is instituted by christ in the new testament , rev. 4. the members of the church are seene by john in a vision sitting on thrones , cloathed with white rayment , having on their heads crownes of gold , vers . 14. now thrones and crownes are ensignes of authority and power , to note unto us that authority and governing power , which is committed by christ unto the church . doctor fulke hath this saying ; the keyes of the kingdome of heaven ( whatsoever they are ) be committed to the whole church , and not to one person onely , as cyprian , augustine , chrysostome , jerome , and all the ancient doctors ( agreeably to the scriptures ) doe confesse , against the popes pardons chap. 3. p. 381. and elsewhere he saith ; the authority of excommunication pertaineth to the whole church , although the judgement and execution thereof is to be referred to the governours of the church ; which exercise that authority , as in the name of christ , so in the name of the who●e church whereof they are appointed governours , to avoid confusion : against the rhemists on 1 cor. 5. sect. 3. and doctor whitaker hath these words : hoc est quod nos dicimus petrum gessisse personam omnium apostolorum ; quare hanc promissionem non uni petro , sed toti ecclesiae factam esse , & totam ecclesiam in illo claves accepisse . de pontif . roman . q. 2. c. 4. sect. 17. and in that booke hee is pregnant and plaine in this , that by the keyes is meant all ecclesiasticall power and jurisdiction , and that these keyes are given in peter to the whole church : the same is also taught by master parker polit. eccles . l. 3. c. 1. 2. 3. 4. 5 , 6. where he proves by many arguments , that every visible church ( which hee acknowledgeth to be no other but a particular congregation ) hath the power of all ecclesiasticall government and jurisdiction commited to it by christ jesus ; and answereth many objections to the contrary : and page 2 of that third book , making mention of foure opinions concerning those words of the keyes , and power of binding and loosing matth. 16. 19. the first of them that understand the pope onely to be meant thereby as peters successour : the second of them that understand it of the diocesan bishop : the third of them that understand those words as meant of the ministers but the ministers alone : the fourth of them that understand peter to represent the church in that place , and therefore that that promise is made unto the church : of these he refuseth the three first as unsound , and maintaines the fourth as onely agreeing to the truth . and master baine saith , every church by christs institution hath power of government , dioces . tryall quest . 1. p. 8. and hee tells us page 11. what hee meant by church : the word church ( saith he ) wee understand here not figuratively tataken metonymically for the place , syn●cdochecally for ministers administring ordinances ; but properly , for a body politicke standing of people to be taught and governed , and of teachers and governours : so that in his judgement every church ( properly so called ) hath power of government within it selfe : and by these words of his it may also be concluded , that all power of government is not in the elders alone for the power of government by church institution is in every church properly so called ; but ministers are not a church in propriety of speech , but onely figuratively by a synecdoche ; and therefore all power of government is not in the ministers alone , but a church properly so called is the body politique , consisting of people and ministers : but of this more may bee said in the next question . fourthly , for the matters of independency , whereof this question also makes mention : we doe confesse the church is not so independent but that it ought to dep●nd on christ both for direction from the rules of his holy word , ioh. 10. 27. act. 3. 23. and for the assistance of his holy spirit , to discerne those rules , and to walke according to them when they shall be discerned , ioh. ●5 . 5. and 16. 13. but for dependency upon men , or other churches , or other subordination unto them in regard of church government or power , wee know not of any such appointed by christ in his word . our saviours words are plaine , if a man heare not the chu●ch , let him beto thee as an heathen or publican . and his promise unto his church is plaine also , that whatsoever they shall binde on earth , shall be bound in heaven , &c. mat. 18. 17. &c. and the apostle bids the church deliver the impenitent sinner unto satan , 1 cor. 5. 4. 5 , 6. now when the man upon the churches censure comes to be in case as an heathen or publican , yea becomes bound in heaven as well as bound in earth , and also delivered unto satan , this seems to us to be such a firme ratification of the churches censure , as leaves no roome for any other ecclesiasticall power on earth to reverse or disanull the same , and so takes away that kinde of dependency and subordination of churches . nos plane dicimus ●cclesias initiò regi solitas esse à suis pastoribus , sic quidem ut nullis essent externis , aut ecclesi●s , aut episcopis subditae , non colossensis , ephaesi●ae , non philippensis , thessaloniensi , non h● romanae , non romanae cuiquam , se● paris omnes inter se juris essent , id est , sui omnes juris et mancipij whitak de pontif. roman . question 1. chapter 1. section 3. that is in summe . the churches were not dependent and subordinate to others , but all of them absolutely free , and independent . wee affirme saith master baine , that all churches were singular congregations equall in dependent each of other in regard of subjection , diocesse tryall . q 1. pag. 13. the twentieth chapter of mr. parker his third booke of eccles . politie , hath this title de summitate ecclesiae particularis . and the title of the 21. is , de paritate ecclesiarum , where he openeth and explaineth , and by many arguments and testimonies confirmeth what we hold of the independency and paritie of churches , to which learned discourse of his , we referre you for further satisfaction in this point . wee doe believe that christ hath ordained that there should be a presbytery or eldership , 1 tim. 4. 14. and that in every church , ●it . 1 5. acts 14. 23. 1 cor. 12. 28. whose worke is to teach and rule the church by the word and lawes of christ , 1 tim. 5. ●7 and unto whom so teaching and ruling all the people ought to be obedient and submit themselves , heb. 13. 17. and therefore a government meerly popular or democraticall ( which divines and orthodox writers doe so much condemne in morillius , and such like ) is farre from the practice of these churches , and we believe farre from the minde of christ . secondly , neverthelesse a government meerely aristocratical , wherein the church government is so in the hands of some elders , as that the rest of the body are wholly excluded from entermedling by way of power therein , such a government we conceive also to be without warrant of the word , and likewise to be injurious to the people , as infringing that liberty which christ hath given to them in choosing their owne officers , in admitting of members , and censuring of offendors , even ministers themselves when they be such ; as the church of colosse must admonish archippus of his duety , col. 4. 17. master parker you know hath 22. arguments to prove the superiority of the churches over and above her officers , polit. eccles . lib. 3. cap. 12. and master baine saith , if the church have power by election to choose a minister , and so power of instituting him , then of destituting also : instituere & destituere ejusdem est potestatis , dioces . triall p. 88. and againe , no reason evinceth the pope , though a generall pastors subject to the censure of a church oecumenicall , but the same proveth a diocesan bishop ( and wee may adde , and a congregationall minister ) subject to the censure of the particular church , pag. 89. and whereas it might be objected , then may sheep censure the shepherd , children their fathers , which were absurd . to this he answereth , that similitudes hold not in all things , naturall parents are no waies children , nor in state of subjection to their children : but spirituall fathers are so fathers , that in some respects they are children to the whole church . so shepherds are no waies sheep , but ministers are in regard of the whole church . 2. parents and shepherds are absolutely parents and shepherds , bee they good or evill , but spirituall parents and pastors are no longer so , then they do accordingly behave themselves p. 89. ( to the same purpose and more a● large is this objection answered by master parker , polit. eccles . l. 3. c. 12. p. 78. 79. and againe , if their owne churches have no power over them , it will be hard to shew wherein others have such power of jurisdiction over persons who belong not to their owne churches , p. 89. so that all power is not in the officers alone , seeing the officers themselves , if they offend , are under the power of the church . even paul himselfe though an extraordinary officer , yet would not take upon him to excommunicate the incestuous person , without the church , but sends to them exhorting them to doe it ; and blames them because they had not done it sooner , 1 cor. 5. which shewes that the exercise of all church power of government , is not in the officers alone : and therefore the lord iesus reproving pergamus and thyatira for suffering balaamites , nicholaitans , and the woman iezebel among them , and calling on them for reformation herein , rev. 2. sends his epistle , not onely to the angels of those churches , but also to the churches , or whole congregations , as appeareth rev. 1. 11. and also in the conclusion of those epistle , where the words are , let him that hath an eare heare what the spirit saith , ( not onely to the angels ) but unto the churches ; whereby it appeares , that the suffering of these corrupt persons and practises , was the sinne of the whole church , and the reforming of them , a duty required of them all ▪ now the reforming of abuses in the church , argues some exercise of church government , as the suffering of them argues some remissenesse therein ; and therefore it followes , that some exercise of church government was required of the whole church and not all of the angels alone . sure it is the whole congregation of israel thought it their duty to see to the reforming of abuses , when they appeared to spring up amongst them , as appeareth by their behaviour & practise when the two tribes and an halfe had set up the altar upon the bankes of jordan , ios . 22. for it is said , that the whole congregation of the children of israel gathered themselves together at shilo , to go up to warre against them , v. 12. and when phineas and ten princes with him , were sent to expostulate with them about the matter , it was the whole congregation that sent them , v. 13 , 14. and when they delivered their message they spake in the name of the whole congregation , saying , thus saith the whole congregation of the lord , what trespasse is this ? &c. v. 16. which plainely declares , that the whole congregation ( and not the elders or rulers alone ) thought it their duty to see abuses reformed and redressed , which could not be without some exercise of government . and when achan the sonne of ca●mi had committed a trespasse in the accursed thing , ●is . 7. it is counted the sinne of the whole congregation and such a sinne as brought a plague upon them all : for it is said the children of israel committed a trespasse in the accursed thing , v. 1. and god saith to ioshua ( not the el●ers have sinned , but ) israel hath sinned , and they have transgressed my covenant , and they have stolne of the accursed thing , and put it among their owne stuffe . v. 11. and for this , wrath fell on all the congregation of israel , and that man perished not alone in his iniquity , iosh . 22. 20. now why should not he have perished alone , but wrath must fall upon them all ? and why should his sinne , be the sinne of all the congregation , if the care of preventing it , and timely suppressing the same , ( which could not be without some exercise of church government ) had not bin a duty lying upon all the whole congregation , but upon the elders and officers alone ? doubtlesse the just lord , who saith , every man shall beare his owne burden , gal. 6. 5. would not have brought wrath upon all the congregation for achans sinne , if such government as might have prevented , or timely reformed the same , had not belonged to the whole congregation , but to the elders alone . and before this time all the children of israel ( and not the elders alone ) are commanded to put lepers and uncleane persons out of the campe , numb . 5. 1 , 2. by all which it appeareth , that all exercise of church government is not in the elders alone , but some power is in the people . and else-where he counts it no sacriledge for members of the church , though not in office , to handle those keyes , mat. 16. but rather a frivolous thing to thinke otherwise ; quasi absque sacrilegio , saith he , tractare claves priva●i nequeant , qui e●●s privatim tractare jubeatur . quoties fratres suos admonere , consolari , et aedificare . imò ve●ò est & publica clavium tractatio quam plebs christiana in unum coacta sine ullo sacrilegio ministrat , 1 cor. 5. polit. eccles . l. 3. c. 2. p. 8. and yet this is not a singular conceit of his or ours , but the concurrent judgement of many worthy witnesses of the truth in these latter dayes , who do with great consent hold the ecclesiasticall government to be of a mixt form compounded of all three estates , and that the people are not to be wholly excluded from having any thing to do therein . si velimus christum ipsum respicere , fuit semper ecclesiae regimen monarchicum : si ecclesiae presbyter●s , qui in doctrina et disciplina suas partes agebant , aristocraticum : si totum corpus ecclesiae quatenus in electione episcoporum et presbyterorum suffragia ferebat , it a tamen ut 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 semper à presbyteris servaretur , democraticum : sic partim aristocritum partim democraticum , partim etiam monarchicum est , semper que fuit ecclesiae regimen , whita . de pontif . rom. qu. 1. c. 1. sect . 2. the church ( saith mr. cartwright ) is governed with that kinde of government , which the philosophers that write of the best common-wealths affirme to be the best . for in respect of christ the head it is a monarchy , and in respect of the ancients and pastors that governe in common and with like authority among themselves , it is an aristocraty , or rule of the best men ; and in respect that the people are not secluded , but have their interest in church matters , it is a democraty , or popular state , 1 reply p. 51. and when dr. whitegift , from the doctrine of the authors of the admonition would infer this consequence , viz. that then the more that ruled the better estate it should be , and so the popular state should be the best : in answer hereunto he saith , i have spoken of this before , where i declared that the mixed estate is best , both by the example of the kingdome of christ , and also of this our realme , pag. 181. 182. and againe , whereas mr. dr. saith , that excommunication , and consequently absolution or restoring to the church again pertaineth only to the minister : it remaineth that i shew that the presbytery or eldership , and the whole church also , hath interest in the excommunication , and consequently in the absolution or restoring unto the church againe , p. 183. and againe , it is certaine saint paul did both understand and observe the rule of our saviour christ ( viz. that rule , mat. 18. tell the church ) but he communicateth this power of excommunication with the church : and therefore it must needs be the meaning of our saviour christ , that the excommunication should be by many , and not by one , and by the church , and not by the minister of the church alone , for hee biddeth the church of corinth twise in the first epistle , once by a metaphor , another time in plaine words , that they should excommunicate the incestuous person . and in the 2d. epistle , understanding of the repentance of the man , he intreateth them that they would receive him again : and therfore considering that the absolution of the excommunication doth pertain unto the churches , it followeth that the excommunication doth in like manner appertainunto it , p. 184. and again that the ancients had the ordering of these things , and that the peoples consent was required , & that the ministers did not take upon them of their own authority to excommunicate , &c. it may appeare almost in every page of cyprians epistles . in augustines time it appeareth also , that that consent of the church was required , p. 187. to these may be added , mr. fenner , who speaking of the ecclesiasticall presbytery , and of the businesse which the presbytery is to deale in , which hee distinguisheth into judiciarie , as deciding of doubts , and dispencing of censures . and extrajudiciary , as election , ordination &c. hath these words , atque haec sunt negotia quae praestari debent : in quibus per omnes ecclesias summa ecclesiastica potestas presbyterio demandata est , ita tamen ut in his quae maximi sunt momenti , et ad ecclesiae totius bonum velruinam maxime spectant , post 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 suam de his captum consilia ecclesiae denunciantur , ut si quid habeant quod consulant vel objiciant in ●●edium proferant : postea , autem auditis et assentien ibus ( nisi ad majorem senatum negotium deferri fuerit , necesse ad turbas vita●das sive componendas , quod tum cum major pars ecclesiae dissentit , faciendum est ) decervenda et pro decretis ecclesiis pro●onenda sunt , and then he declares what hee meanes by those matters maxim momenti , viz. excommunication , absolution , elections , and deposings of ministers and such like , sacrae the. lib. 7. c 7. wherin he plainly sheweth , that though the power of the presbytery be very great yet in things of greatest moment , as censures and elections , the people if they have any thing to counsell or object , have liberty to bring it in ; and afterwards matters are to be concluded when they have bin heard speake , and have given their consent , for which liberty and power of the people , he bringeth these scriptures , 2 chro. 30. 23. acts 1. 15. 23. 26. 1 cor. 5. 4. & 2 cor. 1. 6. 7. zanchius speaking of that question , per quos exerceri debet excommunicatio , answers thus , nempe per ecclesia● , seu per ministros ecclesiae nomine , eoque et cum consensu totius ecclesiae promissio illa , quaecunque ligaveritis , ad totam ecclesiam est facta , ergo &c. praeterea apostolus hoc expressius declaravit , 1 cor. 5. congregatis vobis , &c. alloquebatur autem totam ecclesiam . patres idem docent : cyprianus ad cornelium rom. episcopum seribit se multum laborasse apud plebem , ut par daretur lapsis p●enitentibus : si ergo non erat unius episcopi cum suo presbyterio solvere quempiam , sed requirebatur plebis eoque totius ecclesiae consensus : ergo neque ligari quispiam poterat , id est excommunicari , sine totius ecclesiae consensu . augustinus etiam contra donatistas ait , supersedendum esse excommunicatione quando tota plebs laborant eodem merbo , quid ita ? causam adfert , quia inquit , non assentientur excommunicationi . &c. satis aperte docet tunc temporis non solitum fuisse excommunicationem ferri in quempiam sine totius ecclesiae consensu ; et ratio est in promptu , quae enim adomnes pertinent eum consensu omnium fieri debent : ergo sine totius ecclesiae consensu excommunicari nemo debet . and then comparing the government of the church , to the roman common-wealth which had the dictators , the senate and the quirites , and shewing that the church government in respect of christ is a monarchy , in respect of the presbyters an aristocratie , and in respect of the people a democratie , he concludes thus , in rebus igitur gravissimis , quae ad totum corpus pertinent , uti est excommunicatio , sine consensu et authoritate totius ecclesiae nihil fieri debet , de redempt , in prae c. 4. pag. 983. &c. calvins words are these , cyprianus cum meminit per quos suo tempore exerceretur ( viz. potestas jurisdictionis ) adjungere solet totum clerum episcopo , sed . libi quoque demonstrat , sic praefuisse clerum ipsum , ut plebs inter●m à cognitione non excluderetur , sic enim scribit ; ab initio episcopatus mei statui sine cleri consilio & plebis consensu nihil agere , instit. 1. 4. c. 11. sect. 6. and againe , hoc addo , illam esse legitimam in excommunicando homine progressionem quam demonstrat paulus , si non soli seniores seorsim id faciant , sed conscia & approbante ecclesia , in eum scilicet modum , ut plebis multitudo non regat actionem , sed observet , ut testis & custos , ne quid per libidinem à paucis geratur , instit . l. 4. c. 12. sect. 7. those ministers that penned the christian and modest offer of disputation , doe say , that the pastor and elders that exercise ecclesiasticall jurisdiction , ought not to performe any maine and materiall ecclesiasticall act , without the free consent of the congregation , in propos . 8. the refuter of doctor downams sermon for the superiority of diocesan bishops , is plaine and full also in this point , in part 2. of his reply p. 104 105 , 106. where answering doctor downam , that counted it schismaticall novelty , that the forme of the church government should be holden in part to be democrattcall , and that his refuter for so holding was a brownist or anabaptist ; he not onely proves the power of the people from the scripture , and delivers his owne judgement , that the ecclesiasticall government is of a mixt forme , compounded of all three estates ; but for the same tenent , and that the church government is in part democraticall or popular , he alledgeth the testimonies of the centuries , of illyricus , of doctor fulke . doctor willet , cyprian , augustine , p. martyr , dr whitaker , and others : master baines his judgement we heard before in the former question . vrsinus speaking of that question . quibus commissa est potestas clavium ▪ hath these words : quibus denunciatio verbi divini delegata est , iisdem & potestas illa clavium ; quae verò denunciatio fit in ecclesiastica disciplina est totius ecclesie , ad totam enim ecclesiam pertinet disciplina & jurisdictio spiritualis , sed alio modo fit illa denunciatio in verbi divini ministerio , quam in ecclesiae judicio . and then telling how this denunciation is done in the ministery , and by the ministers of the word , he comes to declare how it is done in church censures : in ecclesiastico judicio ( saith he ) gratiae & irae dei non fit denunciati . ab uno aliquo privatim ▪ sed à tota ecclesia aut nomine totius ecclesiae ' ab its qui ad hoc delecti sunt communi omnium consensu . and a little after answering objections brought against the use of excommunication , he hath these words : potest concedi quod christus non intelligat presbyterium ( viz. in that place matth. 18. tell the church ) sed propriè sumat vocabulum ecclesiae ante christum jdaicae● , post christum christianae : sed in ecclesiae jurisdictione oportet aliquem esse ordinem , aliquos oportet esse constitutos ab ecclesia , alioquin esset 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . and speaking of that question , quis ordo servari debeat in exercenda clavium potestate ( he saith ) principalis pars in excommunicatione est denunciatio , qua &c. atque haec denunciatio qua quis excommunicatur non est penes ministrum ecclesiae , sed penes ipsam ecclesiam , & ejus nomine fit , quia mandatum hoc à christo datum est ecclesiae ; nam ipse ait expressè , dic ecclesiae . and finally , speaking of abuses to be avoided , and cautions to be observed in excommunication , he hath such words in the fourth proposition , or rule there annext , as doe declare it to be his judgement ▪ that if excommunication should be passed by a few , without the consent of the whole church , such proceedings would be both oligarchy and tyranny : attentem expendatum ( saith he ) à toto presbyterio , probetur ab ecclesia , non suscipiatur privat â authoritate , ne ministerium ecclesiae convertatur in 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 & tyrannidem , in his comment upon the catechisme , in the place de clavibus regni coelorum . pareus delivering certaine porismata or , conclusions concerning excommunication , hath this for the fifth of them , quòd excommunicandi potestas non fit penes unum episcopum , vel paucos pastores , sed penes ecclesiam ; proindelicet pastores & presbyteri ordinis cau ▪ â primas habeant partes circa censuras ecclesiasticas , & per eos h● administrentur ; quod tamen citra consensum ecclesiae pastores ad exclusionem proced●re non debeant , alibi demonstravimus in 1 cor. 5. and a little after , answering stapletons objections that would have the power of excommunication to be in the bishop alone ▪ he brings in the case of cyprian , who could not absolve the lapsi without the people : cyprianus ( saith hee ) ad cornelium romanum episcopum scribit s● multum apua plebem laborasse ut pax daretur lapsis , quam si per se dare potuisset , non erat cur adeo in persuadenda plebe se fatigasset . so that in the judgement of pareus and cyprian all power of church government was not in the presbyters , but some power was in the people . musculus , although he thinke there be little use of excommunication and church discipline , where there is a christian magistrate , yet when it is to be used , he would not have the people excluded from having any hand therein , as may appeare by those words of his , where he speakes de disciplina ecclesiastica : hisce de rebus non constituet minister suo proprio arbitratu , sed erit ad institutionem earum director , & adhibebit suffragia & consensum sue plebis , ne quicquam invitae ecclesie imponatur . denique curabit ut plebs ipsa viros graves , timentes dei , ac boni testimonii deligat , quorum curâ & vigilantiâ disciplina ecclesiastica administratur , & si quid gravioris momenti accidat , ad ipsam ecclesiam referatur : loc. com . de ministris verbi dei , in tit . de potestate ministrorum p. 377. and afterward , in the latter end of that place , comming to speake of the deposing of unworthy ministers , he hath these words : quaeritur hic per quos disciplina ista administrari debeat ? respondeo , primum ecclesiae populus potestatem habens elegendi dignum ministrum , habet etiam ( teste cypriano ) potestatem indignum recusandi : deinde qui judices sunt censoresque morum in ecclesia ex officio tenentur redargnere peccantem ministrum , si duobus aut tribus testibus fide dignis coram ecclesia dei convictus fuerit . tertiò , iidem cum consensu & suffragiis plebis deponent ministrum , vel ad ltempus , vel in universum , vel excommunicabunt tandem juxta quaitatem peccati vel defectus illius , p. 429. doctor ames saith , potestas hujus disciplinae ( viz. of excommunication ) quoad jus ipsum pertinet ad ecclesiam illam in communi , cujus membrum est peccator : ad illos enim pertinet ejicere , ad quos pertinet primò admittere , & corporis totius interest ex aequo membrorum conservatio vel amputatio , cum ecclesi● idcirco consensu ( eoque magistratu non permittente tantum , sed & approbante & constituente ) est executioni mandanda . medul . theol. l. 1. c. 37. sect. 26. lastly , master parker observing a distinction betweene power , and the dispencing of power ; that the one is in the church and the other in the presbyters , hath these words : neque tamen dispensatio omnis , omneque exercitum est penes rectores solos , sed juxta temperamentum formae partim aristocratice , partim democraticae de manda●ae rectoribus suis ecclesi● , que ipsa per se obire satis commodè nequit , retinente vero dispensationem illam illudque exercitium quod & ipsi convenit , & pertinet ad ejus lignitatem , authoritatem , & libertatem à christo donatam . posit . eccles . l. 3. c. 7. and elsewhere he saith , imo vero est & publica clavium tractatio , quam plebes christiana in unum coacta , sine ullo acrilegio administrat . polit. eccles . l. 3 c. 2 p. 8. these testimonies we thought good to produce in this question , lest any should thinke that to give any church power of government to the people , were some singular opinion of ours , swerving from the truth , and disallowed by orthodox writers of the reformed churches ; and no doubt but besides these here cited , the same is taught by ●thers also , whom now we spare to alledge , intending onely ●hese few for a taste instead of many . 2. and therefore when this question demandeth whe●her we give the exercise of all church power of government to the whole congregation , or to the presbyters thereof alone ? our answer is , neither thus nor so , neither all to ●he people excluding the presbytery , nor all to the presbytery excluding the people . for this were to make the government of the church either meerly democraticall , or meerly aristocraticall , neither of which we believe it ought to be . 3. whereas this question demandeth to know what acts of government the presbyters may doe more then any other may doe , and to have those particular acts mentioned : this seemeth to us to be a very large demand , for who is able to mention all the particular acts of government , which any one governour may performe in his time , especially if he continue long in his place ? but if your meaning in this point be not of the individualls , but of the species or kinds , yet even there also it is much to require the particular mentioning of all ; yet to give you a taste take these . the calling of assemblies and dismissing of the same againe ; the ordinary preaching of the word , which is done by way of office ; and being the peoples mouth unto god in prayer ; the dispensing of baptisme , and the lords supper : the permitting of any to speak in an orderly way ; and againe enjoining silence : the putting of matters to vote , and pronouncing of sentence in the censure of offendors , or receiving in of penitents after their fall , and blessing of the people in the name of the lord ; these are acts of church government , which the presbyters may doe according to the word and another member may not do without breach of order and presuming above his place . 4. it is also here demanded , what the presbyters may do without the particular consent of the rest ? to which wee answer , that when they doe what the lord christ ( whose stewards they are ) by his word requires of them in their places , this should not be without the consent of the rest , ●or the rest of the church ought to consent thereto : christs sheep ought to heare his voice , iohn 10. 27. and to obey them that speak unto them in his name , heb. 13. 17. and if any man should in such case willfully dissent , the church ought to deale with such an one , for not consenting to the will and waies of christ , or else they shall all be guilty of the sinfull dissent of such an one . so that this passage ( if it be meant of presbyters doing their duty ) without the consent of the people , goes upon a supposall ( in respect of the people ) of that which never ought to be , neither are wee to suppose but that there may be rule when the elders and brethren doe not dissent nor are divided one from another : the multitude of them that believed in the first christian church at ierusalem , were of one heart and of one soule , a l. 4. 32. yet none needs to doubt , but there was rule and government amongst them , when yet their agreement was such , that the apostles and flders did nothing without the full consent of the rest . it is a miserable mistake either to thinke that in the church of christ the elders and brethren must needs dissent one from another , or if they all consent , that then there can be no ruling but against the peoples minde . they were none of the best shepheards to their flocks unto whom the lord saith , with force and rigour have you ruled them . ezech. 34. 4. as for doing any thing in their places ▪ which the word of christ , the lord and master of the church , commandeth not , nor alloweth such things ▪ they neither ought to do nor ought the church to consent unto them if they should ; for that were to make themselves partakers of their rulers sinnes , and so to bring judgement upon them all , as when the priests did wickedly beare rule , and the people loved to have it so , ieremiah 5. 31. 5. lastly , this question demandeth how , and over whom in those acts of government , which are done by the elders more then by other members , or without the consent of the rest , the presbyters doe rule in propriety of speaking more then the rest of the congregation ? wherein are sundry particulars . 1. how they rule ? whereunto wee answer , that neither the elders nor the people doe rule with lordly and princely rule , and soveraigne authority and power ; for that is proper to christ over his church : who is the onely lord , 1 cor. 12. 5. and king and lawgiver that is able to save and to destroy , isa . 33. 23. psal . 2. luk. 19. 27. jam. 4. 12. the elders are forbidden to be lords over gods heritage , 1 pet. 5. 3. or to exercise authority as the kings and princes of the earth doe , matth. 20. 25 , 26. luk. 22. 25 , 26. they are not so to rule , as to doe what themselves please , but they must do whatsoever christ hath commanded , mat. 28. 20. mr. baine sheweth from these words there are diversities of ministeries , but one lord , 1 cor. 12. 5. that it is contrary to the scripture that there should be in the church more lords then one : ( and saith he ) look as great lords have in their houses ministers of more and lesse honour , from the steward to the scullery , but no lord-like or master-like power in any besides themselves : so is it with christ and his church , which is the house of god , wherein hee is the lord , apostles and others having more or lesse honourable services , but no masterlike power over the meanest of their fellow servants : on ephes . 1. 22. p. 395. and elsewhere he saith , no minister of the word hath any power but ministeriall in the church , the power of the apostles themselves and evangelists is called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , acts 20. 2 tim. 4. yea such a service as doth make the ministers having it so servants , that they are no way lords ; many ministers , one lord ; we preach christ iesus the lord ; our selves your servants for iesus sake , dioces . tryall . q. 2. p. 74. the elders are to rule as stewards , mat. 24. 45. luke 12. 42. as shepheards , act. 20. 28. as captaines , guides , leaders or overseers , by going before the people , and shewing them the word and way of the lord , 1 tim. 3. 1. 5. & 5. 17. 1 thes . 5. 12. h●b . 13. 17. 2. how they rule more then the rest of the congregation do ? whereto the answer is , that this is more then the rest of the congregation doe in these acts , even as acting is more then consenting , and as it is more to be a steward over of the house then one of the household , or to be a guide or leader , then to be guided or led . 3. over whom they doe rule ? even over the whole church in generall , and every member in particular , even all the flocke over which the holy ghost hath made them overseers , act. 20. 28. 1 pet. 3. 2. the rule is expresse and plaine that women ought not to speake in the church , but to be in silence , 1 cor. 14. 34. 1 tim. 2 11 , 12. and therefore they ought not to vote in church matters ; besides voting imports some kind of government , and authority and power : now it is not government and authority , but subjection and obedience which belongs unto women , by the rule , and so is the practice of women amongst us . church matters ought not to be determined meerly by multitude or plurality of votes , but by rules from the word of christ , whose will ▪ ( and not the will either of the major , or minor part of men , ) is the onely rule and law for churches , iam. 4. 12. isa . 33. 22. mat. 23. 8 , 9. exod. 23. 2. 21. 22. for our practice among us , the major part of the church , yea usually the whole church doth consent and agree in one minde , and one judgement , and so gives a joint unanimus vote ; and the rule requires it should be so rom. 15. 6. and the example of the primitive apostolike churches , where things were carried ( nor meerly by the major or minor part , the rest dissenting , but ) 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , or with one accord . act. 1. 14. & ● . 46 & 4. 24. & ● . 12. & 15. 25. so that in this sence , matters with us are carried according to the vote of the major part , that is , with the joint consent of the whole church , but yet because it is the minde of christ . but it may be your meaning is in this question to take it for granted that the churches will be divided in their votes , and to know what course we take at such times : but if churches lay aside their owne affections , and give attendance to the rule , and be ( as all churches ought to be ) men of humble spirits , and sincere , and withall depend on christ their head and king for guidance , in their worke , we know no necessity of such a supposall , that they must needs be divided in their votes , especially considering what promises he hath made unto his church , of godly concord and agreement among themselves , and of his owne gracious presence in the midst of them , ier. 32. 39. zeph. 3. 9. mat. 18. 20. which promifes we believe are not in vaine . neverthelesse , we deny not but through the corruptions & distempers of men , some dissention may arise for a time in a true church , as it was in the church at corinth : and if any such thing fall out among us ( which we blesse god is not often ) then before matters be put to the vote , our course of proceeding is after this manner . if the elders and major part of the church consent in one conclusion , yet if any brother dissent , he is patiently heard , and his alledgements of scripture or good reasons are duely weighed : if it appeare that his judgement is according to the rule , the whole church will readily yeeld , though before they were otherwise minded . but if it appeare they who dissent from the major part , are factiously or partially carried , the rest labour to convince them of their error by the rule , if they yeeld , the consent of all comfortably concurreth in the matter ; if they still continue obstinate , they are admonished , and so standing under censure , their vote is nullified . if they without obstinate opposition of the rest , doe dissent still , yet referre the matter to the judgement of the major part of the body they are not wont to proceed to sentence ( if the matter be weighty as in excommunication ) till the reasons on both sides have bin duly pondered , and all brotherly means have been used for mutuall information and conviction . if the difference still continue the sentence ( if the matter be weighty ) is still demurred , even till other churches have been consulted with , who in such a case will send their elders to communicate their apprehensions and light , which they do not pro imperio , binding the church to rest in their dictates but by propounding their grounds from the scripture . these courses with gods presence and blessing ( which usually accompanieth his ordinance ) faithfully taken and followed , will prevaile either to settle one unanimous consent in the thing ▪ or at least to preserve peace in the church by the dissentors submission to the judgement of the major part , though they see not light sufficient to warrant them to act in the businesse : such subjection is according to the rule , ephes . 5. 21. 1 pet. 5. 5. if the church or the elders should refuse the testimony of other churches according to god , they will ( after brotherly admonition and due patient waiting ) deny them the right hand of fellowship , till they shall give better evidence of their subjection to the gospel of christ . but thanks be to god we never had occasion of such withdrawing communion of one church from another , though now and then ( as need requireth ) churches send to other churches for their counsell and advice . meanes to preserve the churches in unitie and verity , and to reforme any that may erre , thankes bee to god we have sundry . first , the holy scriptures , which are a perfect rule for doctrine and practise , 2 tim. 3. 15 16. 2 pet. 1. 19. psal . 19. 7 , 8. secondly , the ministery appointed by christ , viz. of pastors , teachers , elders , and deacons , ephes . 4. 11 , 12. 1 cor 12. 28. 1 tim. 5. 17. 1. tim. 3. 1 , 2. &c and vers . 8. and in both these we have frequently holden forth unto us the commandement of god , wherein he requires churches to bee of one mind and one judgement in the truth , 1 cor. 1. 10. & 2. 13. 11. ephes . 4. 3. & phil. 1. 27. & 2. 1. 2. and his promise to lead his people into all truth , and holy agreement therein , jer. 32. 29. isa 11 6 , 7 &c. zeph. 3. 9. ioh. 16. 13. with many motives and rules from scripture for continuing in the said truth and love . now faith makes use of these promises and submits to these precepts and exhortations , and so both these being mixt with faith are profitable meanes by the blessing of god for that end aforesaid , heb. 4. 2. as these churches have found by experience , for these yeares since our comming into this countrey : and any other meanes sanctified of god for the aforesaid end , we hope we should be glad with thankfull hearts to improve and make use of as the lord shall help . as for a platforme of doctrine and discipline which you mention , as one meanes hereunto , if thereby you meane no more but a confession of faith of the holy doctrine which is according to godlinesse , we know nothing but it may be lawfull and expedient in some cases for any particular person that hath received the gift to doe it ; or any church , or a●l the churches in any christian common-wealth , to compile and set forth such a platforme . the practise of those churches , whose confessions are contained in that booke called the harmony of confessions , as also of master robinson at leiden , and others of our nation in other parts in the low-countries , who have published such platformes , we see no reason to condemne or disallow : neither count we it unlawfull or inexpedient for any church or churches , or person or persons in the countrey , upon just occasion to doe the like . but if your meaning be of a platforme to be imposed by authority upon others , or our selves , as a binding rule of faith and practice , so that all men must believe and walke according to that platforme , without adding , altering , or omitting ▪ then we are doubtfull whether such platformes be lawfull or expedient . for if the doctrine contained therein doe in any particular swerve from the doctrine contained in scripture then the imposing of them is so far forth unlawfull ; and if they be according to it , then they may seeme needlesse , in as much as the forme of wholesome words contained in scripture is sufficient . which reason against such platformes , makes nothing against sermons or preaching , though sermons must be according to the doctrine contained in scripture , because preaching is an ordinance of god and therefore not needlesse ; which we cannot say of such platformes . besides , as they are not necessary , so they may be a snare unto men , and a dangerous temptation of attending more to the forme of doctrine delivered from the authority of the church , and the imposers , then to the examining thereof according to the rule of scripture ; and so their faith may by this meanes stand in the wisedome or will of man , rather then in the power of god , as if men had dominion over their faith ; which things ought not so to be , 1 cor. 2. 5. & 2. 1. ver . christians have liberty from god to search the scriptures , and try all things , and hold fast that which is good , act. 17. 11. ioh. 5. 39. 1 thess . 5. 21. but the foresaid imposing of platformes and confessions compiled by men , doth seeme to abridge them of that liberty ; and if it be any meanes of unity , yet it may be a dangerous hinderance of some verity and degree of truth as binding men to rest in their former apprehensions and knowledge , without liberty , to better their judgement in those points , and shutting the doore against any further light which god may give to his best servants , and most discerning , beyond what they saw at first : and therefore we doubt such imposed platformes are not lawfull , or at least wise not expedient . the consociation of churches into classes and synods we hold to be lawfull and in some cases necessary ; as namely in things that are not peculiar to one church , but common to them all : and likewise when a church is not able to end any matter that concernes onely themselves , then they are to seeke for counsell and advice from neighbour churches ; as the church at antioch did send unto the church at ierusalem , acts 15. 2. the ground and use of classes and synods , with the limitations therein to be observed , is summarily laid downe by doctor ames , medul . theol. l 1. c. 39. sect. 27. unto whom we do wholly consent in this matter . but when you speake of doing no weighty matter without the consent and counsell of a classes , we dare not so far restraine the particular churches as fearing this would be to give the c●asses an undue power and more then belongs unto them by the word ; as being also an abridgment of that power which christ hath given to every particular church , to transact their owne matters ( whether more or lesse weighty ) among themselves ( if so be they be able ) without such necessary dependence upon classes , as we have shewed before in answer to q. 14. sect. 3. & 4. of that answere . and master parker testifieth , that in genevah , and in the low-countries , where they have some use of classes , yet it cannot bee said that their particular congregations are absque potestate omni in rebus grandtoribus , ut in excommunicatione ; the particular churches are not without power in the more weighty matters , as in excommunication , polit. eccles . li. 2. c. 36. sect. 11. p. 310. and master baine sheweth the same , saying , they have power of governing themselves , but for greater edification voluntarily confederate , not to use or exercise their power but with mutuall communion , one asking the counsell and consent of the other , dioces . triall q. 1. p. 21. and a little after geneva made his consociation , not as if the prime churches were imperfect , and to make one church by this union ; but because though they were intire churches , and had the power of churches , yet they needed support in exercising of it , &c. which is the very same that wee said before in q. 14 viz. that all churches have right of government within themselves , but some had need of counsell and advice of others , because they are of lesse ability to transact their owne matters of themselves . and master parker in the same place afore alledged in the page immediately precedent , clearly sheweth against doctor downham , doctor sutcliffe , and others , that those particular congregations which have presbyters of their owne , with power within themselves , are the most perfect , and are precisely formed juxta formam illam quae in verbo patefacta est , according to that forme which is revealed in the word ; whereas others which have not the like are more defective and imperfect . and if this be so , then to binde churches to do no weighty matters without the counsell and consent of classes , were to blinde them to bee imperfect . and for synods , if they have such power that their determination shall binde the churches to obedience ( as you speake ) it is more then we yet understand . indeed bellarmine makes bishops in a councell or synod to be judges ; and that standum sit corum sententiae , quia ipsi sic statuerunt , quomodo statur sententia praetoris in causis politicis ; that is , either to obey or suffer : de concil . & eccles . l. 1. c. 18. but the orthodoxe writers do not consent to him therein ; for in their judgement the sentence of a councell or synod is onely inquisitio quaedam & dictio sententiae ministrato●ia & limitata , ita ut tantum valeat decretum concilii quantum valeat ejus ratio , as doctor ames hath it in his bellarminus enervatus , upon that place of bellarmine : that is , the sentence of a synod is onely a certaine enquiring and giving of sentence by way of ministery , and with limitation ; so that the decree of the councell hath so much force as there is force in the reason of it . and junius expresseth it thus ; sententia concilii per se ipsam suasionis non coactionis est judicium ministeriale , non authoritatem , per se necessitatemque adferens , animadvers . upon bellarmine in that place : that is , the sentence of a councell is of it selfe onely of advice , not of compulsion or constraint , and brings with it a judgement ministeriall , not authority of it selfe nor necessity ; whereunto we doe wholly consent . as for that clause in this question , that the determination of a synod should binde if not to obedience , yet to peaceable suffering , we know not what sufferings those should be : for punishments in purse or person , in respect of the body or outward man , are not to be inflicted by synods , but by civill magistrates ; and church-censures of excommunication , or the like , belong to the particular church of which an offendor is a member , out of the communion whereof a man cannot be cast , but onely by his owne church . onely christ hath authority to make lawes for the government of each particular church , and the members thereof , and h●s lawes doe oblige all the members , and may not be omitted without sinne , jam. 4. 12. jsa . 33. 22. ● mat. 23. 8 , 9 10. ●ct . 3. 23. but for particular churches , they have no power to make lawes for themselves or their members , but to observe and see all their members observe those laws which christ hath given and commanded mat. 28. 20. deu● . 33. 3. iohn 10. 27. if any church shall presume further , they goe beyond their commission , and in such case their ecclesiasticall lawes may be omitted without sinne , nay it would be sinne to be subject to them col. 2. 20. to walke after them , hos . 5. 11. to be such servants of men as not to stand fast in the liberty wherewith christ hath made us free , 1. or . 7. 23. gal. 5. 1. the outward calling of a minister consisteth properly and essentially in election by the people , as doctor ●mes sheweth , cas . cons . l. 4. c. 25. q. 6. and this election is so essentiall , that without it the ministers calling ( if you speak of an ordinary church officer ) is a nullity ; and therefore mornay , that learned noble man of france , approveth that saying of chrysostome , election by the people is so necessary , as that without it there is neither altar , nor church , nor priest-hood , where ( omitting other things ) it appeares to be their judgement , that without election by the people , the ministery is void ; and mornay addeth of his owne , concerning the bishops amongst the papists , that they were nullá plane 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , nulla proinde , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , for the one presupposed the other , no imposition seeing without election , in his booke of the church , c. 11. p. 375. yet sometimes the peoples acceptance and approbation afterward may supply the want of election at the first , as iacobs after consent and acceptance of lea , made her to be his wife , though hee chose her not at the first . and by this we hold the calling of many ministers in england may be excused , who at first came into their places without the consent of the people . if ordination by imposition of hands , were of the essence of a ministers calling then in those churches , where such ordination is not used , their ministers should want a lawfull calling , which were an hard sentence against many ministers in scotland , where ( as is reported ) this ordination is not thought necessary , and therefore used or omitted indifferently . wee looke at ordination by imposition of hands , as a solemne investing of men into their places , whereto they have right and calling by election , like to the inauguration of a magistrate in the common-wealth , yet necessary by divine institution . 1 tim. 4. 14. but not so necessary as if the ministers calling were a nullity without it . essentia ipsa vocationis , in electione legitima consistit ; ordinatio pendet ab electione , sicut coronatio principi● , aut magistratus inauguratio , ab electione , successione , aut aequivalente aliqua constitutione . ames bellarm. enervat . lib. 3. de clericis , c. 2. sect. 3. that is , the essence of a ministers calling consists in lawfull election , ordination depends upon election , as the coronation of a prince , or the inauguration of a magistrate , depends upon election , succession , or some other constitution aequivalent . and againe , ritus impositionis manuum non est absolute necessarius ad esse pastoris , non magis quam coronatio ad esse regis , aut celebratio nuptiarum ad earum esse . sect . 10. that is , the right of imposition of hands is not absolutely necessary to the essence of a pastor , no more then the coronation to the essence of a king , or the celebration of marriage to the essence thereof . ordination of ministers is not a private action but publique , and ought to be done publiquely in the assembly of the church , and therefore the persons that performe it , ( whether they be ordinary church officers or no ) cannot in any congruity of speech be called meere private persons in that action . 2. the church that hath no officers , may elect officers or ministers unto themselves , therefore it may also ordaine them ; which argument dr. whitaker useth as wee shall see anon . if it have commission and power from christ for the one , and that the greater , it hath it also for the other which is the lesser : now ordination is lesse then election , and depends upon it as a necessary antecedent by divine institution , by vertue of which it is justly administred , being indeed nothing else but the admission of a person lawfully elected into his office , or a putting of him into possession thereof , whereunto he had right before by election , as was said before in answer to the precedent question . 3. if a church have ministers or elders before , then this ordination is to be performed by the elders of the church , and in their assemblie . 1 tim. 4. 14. as also many other acts are to be performed by them . 4. this ordination thus performed by the elders for the church , may fitly be called the act of the whole church , as it is the whole man that seeth , that heareth , that speaketh , when these acts are instrumentally performed by the eye , the eare , and the tongue , in which sense master parker saith , ecclesia per alios docet , baptisa●que , polit. eccles . l. 3. c. 7. p. 26. 5. but when a church hath no officers , but the first officers themselves are to be ordained , then this ordination by the rite of imposing of hands may be performed for the church by the most prime grave and able men from among themselves , as the church shall depute hereunto , as the children of israel did lay their hands upon the levites , numb . 8. 10. now all the congregation could not impose all their hands upon them together , all their hands could not possibly reach them together , and therefore it must needs be that some of the congregation in the name of the whole body performed this rite : and as this scripture sheweth , that the people may in some cases lay their hands upon church officers , ( for the levites were such , upon whom the children of israel did lay their hands ) so let it be considered , whether these reasons doe not further make it manifest . 1. men that are in no office may elect , therefore they may ordaine , because ordination is nothing else but the execution of election . 2. if it were not so then one of these would follow , either that the officers must minister without any ordination at all , or else by vertue of some former ordination received in some other church or else they must be ordained by some other minister or ministers of some other church , that were ordained afore them , and so the ministery to be by succession . but the first of these is against the scripture , 1 tim. 4. 14. heb. 6. 2. and the second were to establish the popish opinion of the indeleble character , imprinted as they imagine in their sacrament of holy orders . whereas for ought we can discerne . if when they are called to office in any church , they have need of a new election , notwithstanding their former election into another church then they have by the same ground need of a new ordination , for ordination depends upon election : if their former election be ceased , their former ordination is ceased also ; and they can no more minister by vertue of a former ordination unto another church , then by vertue of a former election . and for the third , we doe not understand what authority ordinary officers can have to ordaine ministers to such a church , of which themselves are not so much as members besides at some times , namely at the first reformation after the times of popery , there were no others to be had but from the pope , and his bishops and priests . now it were a pittifull case , if the sheep must have no shepherd but such as are appointed to them by the wolves , that is , if gods people might not have ministers , but onely from the popish bishops . this were to say , either that the ministers of antichrist , must , or may ordaine ministers to the church of christ , or else that the popish bishops are true ministers of christ . and if protestants thinke it necessary , that their first ministers should be ordained by the popish bishops , it is no marvell if the papists do thereupon believe that their church is the true church , and their bishops true ministers . such a scandall is it unto them to maintaine this personall succession of the ministery . but god doth so much abhorre antichrist , that hee would not have his people to seek to him , nor his priests to ordaine christs ministers , as he would not take of babilon a stone for a corner , nor a stone for a foundation , ier. 51. 26. 3. it is thus in civill corporations and cities , the major , bayliffe , or other chiefe officer elect , is at his entrance and inauguration to receive at the hands of his predecessors the sword or keyes of the city , or to have some other solemne ceremonie by him performed unto him yet if either there be no former as at the first or that the former be dead or upon necessity absent , when his successor entreth , then is this ceremony and worke performed by some other , the fittest instrument ; neither need that city borrow any officer of another city , neither could he entermeddle there without usurpation , though both the corporations have the same charter under the same king. and so it is in this spirituall corporation or city , the church of god. 4. that this point may seeme the lesse strange to you , we pray you consider with us a little further the nature of this ordination , and then wee will adde the testimonies of some eminent protestant writers in this case , that you may see this is not any singular opinion of ours . for the former , some indeed have so highly advanced this ordination , that they have preferred it farre above preaching the word , ministring the sacraments , and prayer , making it and the power of excommunication , the two incommunicable prerogatives of a bishop above an ordinary minister ; yet the scripture teacheth no such thing , but rather the contrary , for when the apostles were sent out by christ , there was no mention of ordination in that commission of theirs , but only of teaching & preaching & baptising mat. 28. 19 , 20. mark. 16. 15 , 16. if ordination of ministers had bin such a speciall worke , there would belike have bin some mention of it in their commission . and certaine it is , the apostles counted preaching the word their principall worke , and after it prayer , and the ministring of the sacraments , act. 6. 4. 1 cor. 1. 17. if ordaining of ministers had bin in their account so prime a worke , it may seem paul would rather have tarried in creete to have ordained elders there then have gone himselfe about preaching , seaving titus for the other , tit. 1 5. by all which it appeares , that ordaining of ministers is not such an eminent work as that it is to be preferred above preaching the word , and ministring the sacraments , and therefore to be performed by them that are superiours unto ordinary ministers ; preaching and ministring the sacraments , being left as inferiour workes unto ministers , of an inferiour ranke , as they would have it , that stand for the superiority of docesan bishops ; neither is it equall unto those other workes afore mentioned , that onely he that doth those , may performe this other also , as some others thinke ; but being nothing else in the true nature and use of it but the execution and accomplishment and confirmation of election , it may bee performed by the people of god , that yet have no officers , even as election may upon which it doth depend . 5. lastly , let these sayings of some protestant writers of singular note , either for holinesse , or learning , or both , be well considered of . master perkins saith , succession of doctrine alone is sufficient ; for this rule must bee remembred , that the power of the keyes ( that is , of order and jurisdiction ) is tyed by god and annexed in the new testament to doctrine . if in turkey , or america , or elsewhere , the gospel should be received by the counsell and perswasion of private persons , they need not send into europe for consecrated ministers , but they have power to choose their owne ministers from within themselves ; because where god gives the word he gives the power also ; upon gal. 1. 11. doctor willet saith , whereas bellarmine objecteth that as in the old law the priesthood went by carnall generation and lineall descent from aaron , so in the new it must bee derived by succession from the apostles ; we answere , first , that our saviour christ and his apostles could shew no lineall descent from aaron , neither had their ordination from his successors , and yet were the true pastors of the church . and a little after , this we say further , that both before christ there were true pastors and prophets , which were not ordained by the priests of aaron ; and since christ , that received not their ordination successively from the apostles . first , in the old law , when the ordinary priesthood was corrupted , god raised up prophets from other tribes that received not from the priests their ordination and allowance : such an one was amos , who was among heardsmen , and was made a prophet as he was gathering wilde black-berries . after the same manner in the corrupt times of the gospel , the lord hath raised up faithfull ministers to his church , that could shew no succession from the degenerate clergy . and a little after , if paul were made an apostle without the ordination of the lawfull apostles much more may the lord raise up new pastors to his church without ordination from the usurpers of the apostles : synops . papism . contr . 2. q. 3. of succession error 20. p. 81. mor●●y his words are full and plaine to the same purpose . viz although some of our men in such a corrupt state of the church , as we have seene in our time , without waiting for calling or allowance of them who under the title of pastors oppressed the lords flock , did at first preach without this formall calling , and afterward were chosen and called to the holy ministey by the churches which they had taught ; yet this ought to seeme no more strange , then if in a free common-wealth the people without waiting either for the consent , or for the voices of those that tyrannize over them , should ( according to the lawes ) make choice of good and wise magistrates , such ( happily ) as god would serve his turne of for their deliverance , and for the publike restitution . and hereof wee have examples , first , in the acts , where wee read that philip , who was but a deacon , preacheth in samaria without the calling of the apostles , yea without their privity , who for all that gave their allowance to his worke . in frumentius , carried upon another occasion into the indies , a meere lay-man , who yet there preacheth the gospel , and a good while after is there made bishop . in those of whom origen speaketh , that shall come by chance into a city where never any christian was borne , shall there begin to teach , and labour to instruct the people in the faith , whom the people shall afterward make their pastors and bishops : and besides , in all the scriptures there is not one place that bindeth the ministery of the gospel to a certaine succession ; but contrariwise the scripture sheweth , that god would send two speciall witnesses to prophesie against antichrist : of the church chap. 11. p. 371. doctor whitaker answering bellarmine , that would prove protestants to have no church , because their ministers had no ordination by bishops , saith , that as sometimes bishops were chosen by the clergy and sometimes by the people , so the same may be said of ordination , viz. that it was sometimes by the clergy and sometimes by the people ; and then addeth , quod si vocationem corum episcoporum legitimam fuisse concedat bellarminus , de ordinatione minus laboramus . qui enim habent authoritatem vocandi , iidem etiam authoritatem ordinandi habent , si legitima ordinatio non possit impetrari : nam ordinatio sequitur vocationem ; qui vocatur , i● quasi in sui muneris possessionem mittitur : de eccles . q. 5. cap. 6 p. 510. finally , doctor ames doth also witnesse the same in many places of his workes : for a taste take these few sayings of his in this case , viz. ad totam ecclesiam semper pertinet ordinatio , quoad jus , vim , virtutem illam quam habet in ministro ecclesiae constituendo ; sicut celebratio matrimonii vim aut virtutem omnem acceptam refert legitimo consensui conjugum : ecclesie statu ( ministerio & ordine deficiente ) collapso vel corrupto , à plebe etiam actus iste ordinationis , quatenus necessarius est ad ministri constitutionem in tali casu , potest legitimè exerceri , bellarm . enervat . lib. 3. de clericis , cap. 2 de ordinatione . and againe , a little after ; episcopos veros à veris episcopis ordinariè dicimus ordinand●s esse , sed nomine ecclesiae cui ordinantur . and againe , a little after , potestas ordinandi est aliqu● modo originaliter in tota ecclesia , sicut potestas videndi originaliter est in toto animali , quamvis formaliter & subjectivè sit in oculo tantùm ; tum etiam ordinationis exercitium pendet à tota ecclesia , sicut actus videndi hoc vel illud determinatè pendet non ab oculo sed à toto . and againe , quamvis in ecclesia benè constituta non debeat aliis quam presbyteris ordinandi manus mandari ; in defectu tamen idoneorum presbyterorum potest non presbyteris mandari . and yet againe in the next place , si concedatur hoc , quòd ex ordine nemo possit esse legitimus pastor , nisi sit à legitimo pastore & episcopo ordinatus : in ordinis tamen defectu , cùm jam primò instaurari debet ordo , non potest●tam accuratè observari , atque adeo extraordinarium aliquid tum potest intervenire sine ullo vitio . these words you see are punctuall and plaine , that the power of ordaining ministers is originally in the church ; and that though when a church hath presbyters , the act of ordaining is to be done by those presbyters ; yet in defect of such it may be performed by them that are no presbyters , lawfully , and without fault ; which is the case of our churches that are in their beginnings , and may be the case of any church when they come to be without officers , as by warre , pestilence , &c. it may come to passe . there are some things common to pastors with teachers ; as , that they are both officers of the church appointed by christ ; both elders or bishops to rule and feed the church , by labouring in the word and doctrine , act. 20 28 1 tim. 3. 1. tit. 1. 5 , 7. and therefore the name of pastour , in a generall sense may be given to them both , ier. 3. 15. as also the name of teacher , isa . 30. 20. as those names may also be given to apostles , in as much as they also are elders , pastors , teachers , to rule , to feed , to teach the church of god , 1 pet. 5. 1. ioh. 21. 15. 16. 1 tim. 2. 7. & 2. 1. 11. and if pastors and teachers be both of them church officers , to feed and rule the church ▪ by labouring in the word and doctrine , they must not do this without application of it to the consciences and states of the hearers , as god shall helpe them : for this application is one part of his worke , that is by his office to preach the word , without which the word is not handled in such a manner as it ought to be , 2 tim. 2. 15. 1 cor. 14. 25. luk. 12. 42. and many hearers need this , the word delivered in generall without application of it being to them as bread set before children in the whole loafe . and if both of them must labour in the word and doctrine , and not onely in a generall way , but with application , we see not but they may both of them administer the seales or sacraments , wherein there is a speciall application of the promises of the gospel , and the grace of christ therein , unto the faithfull and believing receivers . 2. and yet for all this community between them , they are not in propriety of speech the same officers , but distinct , and so the scripture speaketh of them ephes . 4. 11. for if a man would say their offices are confounded , because the same generall worke of preaching the word , and applying the same , belongs unto them both : by the same reason a man might say the offices of apostles and evangelists were confounded ; for both of them were to preach the word , with application of the same by doctrine , and seales ; and also that the ordinary pastors were the same office with them both , because hee also is to doe the same worke of preaching and applying : but an apostle is to feed , and rule , and teach , by way of doctrine and application , as an apostle ; an evangelist as an evangelist , and an ordinary pastor as an ordinary pastor , and therein lyes the difference : and wee may adde , a teacher as a teacher ; and therein is he distinguished both from the pastor , and from all other church officers , even as by the same they all are distinguished one from another , the same generall worke of doctrine and application being common to them all . 3. and for the teacher and pastor , the difference between them lyes in this , that the one is principally to attend upon points of knowledge and doctrine , though not without application ; and the other to points of practice , though not without doctrine : and therefore the one of them is called ▪ he that teacheth , and his worke is thus expressed , let him attend on teaching ; and the other , he that exhorteth , and his worke , to attend on exhortation , rom. 12. 7 , 8. and the gift of the one is called a word of knowledge , and the gift of the other , a word of wisedome , 1 cor. 12. 8. as experience also sheweth , that one mans gift is more doctrinall , and for points of knowledge ; and anothers more exhortatory , and for points of practise . it is not the manner of elders among us , whether ruling onely , or ruling and teaching also , to strive for authority or preheminence one above another ; as remembring what lesson our saviour taught his disciples , when they were at strife among them , which of them should be the greatest , luk. 22. 24 , 25. &c. if diotrephes strive for preheminence 3 ioh. 9 , 10. verily we abhorre such striving , and by the grace of god respect one another as brethren . as for the peoples duty toward their elders , it is taught them plainly in that place , 1 thes . 5. 12 , 13. as also in that of 1 tim. 5. 17 let the elders that rule well bee counted worthy of double honour , specially they that labour in the word and doctrine ; and this word ( specially ) shewes them , that as they are to account all their elders worthy of double honour , so in speciall manner their teaching or preaching elders . these are answered in that which was sent the last yeare . we doe believe that every minister of the gospel ought to be maintained with sufficient and honourable maintenance , according to his need and occasions , in regard of his person , calling , charge of children and hospitality , so as he that preacheth the gospel may in all these respects live of the gospel , 1 cor. 9. 14. gal 6. 6. 1 tim. 5. 17. and this maintenance is not to be allowed as almes and courtesie , but as debt and duty , to bee paid according to the rule of justice ; the labourer is worthy of his wages , luk. 10. 17. which the apostle sheweth to be according to all lawes of nature , nations , moses and christ , 1 cor. 9. but for setled and stinted maintenance , there is nothing done that way amongst us , except from yeare to yeare , because the conditions of ministers may vary , and of the church to which they doe belong : neither doe we know any such thing to be appointed by christ our lord , for the maintenance of the ministery in these dayes ; but this we know that the great mountaine burning with fire , cast into the sea upon the sounding of the second trumpet rev. 8. 8 , 9. is applyed by some good writers to those times , when constantine brought setled endowments into the church , with ampla praedia ( as they are called ) are counted by some to bee no better then poyson to the church ; as the stories say that upon the fact of the good emperour a voice was heard , which said , hodie seminatum est virus in ecclesiam . and if those writers be not deceived which so expound that scripture ( as for our parts wee know not but they expound it truely ) then in as much as upon the casting of that mountaine into the sea , a third part of it became blood and a third part of living creatures dyed , and a third part of ships were destroyed , it may be truely gathered thence that the bringing in of setled endowments and eminent preferments into the church , hath been the corruption , and to some the destruction of such as lived by them , both church-officers and church-members . we doe not permit , and call upon ( such whom you call ) meere lay men , and private persons , neither being in the ministery nor intended to it , ordinarily to preach or prophecy publiquely , in or before the congregation , if by ordinarily , you meane frequently and usually . for where ordinary officers are not wanting to a church , and neither detained from their worke by sicknesse , nor just absence , we thinke it most meet to offer our sacrifice to god and to the church of our best gifts . but yet if you oppose ordinary to extraordinary , we doe confesse that some private members ( to wit such as are eminently fitted with knowledge and utterance , being also men of humble spirits , and holy lives , all which qualifications we finde but in a few ) may without an extraordinary calling from god be called forth by by the church upon some occasion ( and namely in the absence or bodily weaknesse of ministers , or for tryall of gifts when a man intends the ministery ) to speake to edification , exhortation and comfort . iehosaphat sent princes ( who neither were ministers , nor intended so to be ) to teach with the priests and levites , to wit , at least to incourage the people , to hearken to the priests and levites come amongst them , 2 chron. 17. 7 , 8 , 9. as jehosaphat himselfe also did the like , 2 chron. 20. 20. yea , and was their mouth also to god in prayer , v. 2. 5. to 13. as for that prophecying 1 cor. 14. we conceive as some things in it be extraordinary , so some things ordinary . extraordinary , that private men , and new converts should be so soon & so suddainly , & so much enlightened & enlarged , as to be able to prophecy publikely to the edification of a whole church : but yet this we conceive to be ordinary , that some private men may be found ( at least in some churches ) grown christians , of able gifts , who may have received a gift of prophecy , and for such we doe not thinke it requireth any more an extraordinary calling for them to prophecy in our churches , then for iehosaphat and his princes to prophecy in the church of israel . our answer to this question is that we never knew any ministers that did call upon the people thus to doe : and as for us , such calling upon them is farre from us . all that we know to be holden in this case is this , that some thinke the people have a liberty to aske a question publiquely for their better satisfaction upon very urgent and weighty cause , though even this is doubted of by others , and all judge the ordinary practice of it , not necessary : but ( if it be not meekly and wisely carried ) to be inconvenient if not utterly unlawfull , and therefore such asking of questions is seldome used in any church among us , and in most churches never . true it is , in the times a little afore the synod divers that were infected with corrupt opinions were very bold , & forward in this kind of asking questions , after sermons , especially when they had heard somthing delivered publiquely that did make against their tenents ; by which kind of asking questions , they plainely discovered of what spirit they were , but for being called upon by us thus to doe , ( as it seems to your question that you have been informed ) the truth is , there was no such matter . but now these men are long since , ( the greatest part of them ) to an island ( called aquedneck ) departed from amongst us , some of them being excommunicated or banished , or both , & others departing voluntarily , or for feare of the like censure , by meanes of which departure of these troublesome spirits from amongst us , and the blessing of god upon the synod & sermons that have laid open & reproved this disorderly asking of questions , a man may now live from one end of the year unto another in these congregations , & not hear any man open his mouth in such kind of asking questions . 1. the conversion of sinners unto god doth not alwaies follow the preaching of every one , that is in a lawfull office of ministery , as experience and scripture doe aboundantly witnesse , isay . 49. 4 , 5. & 53. 1. ezech. 3. 7. 2 king. 17. 13 14. mat. 11. 20 , 21. &c. iohn 12. 37. 2. and when it doth follow , it is not by vertue of him , or of his office , but by vertue of gods blessing , and the mighty operation of his spirit as he pleaseth , without which the minister and his office could have had no vertue at all to convert sinners unto god , 1 cor. 3. 6. no more then peter and iohn could heale the lame man , by virtue of any power or holinesse that was in them , act. 3. 12. for otherwise faithfull ministers should not have their labours blessed for conversion some more and some lesse ▪ but all in the same measure , inasmuch as one of them is no more a minister then another , nor no more in office then another , their office being the same , the effect in conversion would bee the same if conversion were by the vertue of their office . the truth it is , the law of the lord , ( the whole word of god ) that converts the soule , psal . 19. 7. and the gospell that is the power of god unto salvation . rom. 1. 16. and therefore the conversion of a man to god is to be ascribed to god , and to the word of his grace ; and not to the minister , nor any vertue of his office . 3. but this we doe acknowledge , that the sound conversion of sinners , whensoever such a thing comes to passe , doth argue that the instruments of such conversion are sent of god : god would not so have blessed them , as to convert any by them , if himselfe had not sent them at all , rom. 10. 14 , 15. ier. 23. 32. 4. and yet we dare not say , that gods word is not made effectuall to conversion , unlesse the man that speakes it be a minister , that is to say , a church officer , for the contrary is evident from the scripture , john 4. 39. act. 8. 4. with 11. 19 , 20 , 21. 1 cor. 7. 16. they that were scattered abroad upon the persecution that arose about steven , were not church officers , at least all of them ( for the apostles who were their chiefe , if not their only preaching officers , were not scattered abroad upon that persecution , but remained still at jerusalem , acts 8. 1. ) and yet these men did so preach the word of the lord jesus to the iewes and the grecians , that through the good hand of the lord that was with them , a great number believed and turned to the lord ; and the same we say of the woman of samaria , by whose testimonie of christ many of the samaritans believed on him . to restraine the efficacy of gods word in such sort as to say that none can be converted by it , unlesse he that speakes it be a minister , is to limit the spirit of the lord , where he hath not limited himself , who is free in working by whom he pleaseth , and as he will , 1 cor. 12. 11. even as the wind bloweth where it listeth , iohn 3. 8. and sometimes doth bring to passe great things by weake meanes , that his owne glory may be the more , 1 cor. 1. 27 , 28 , 29. if any say , how can these things stand together , that a man that is no minister may be an instrument of conversion , and yet conversion of sinners argues that the man is sent of god ? wee answer , that we must distinguish of sending according to the divers degrees thereof . for sometimes it imports no more but such an act of gods disposing providence , whereby men are gifted and enabled for such or such a worke , and permitted thereunto , though they have no command from him for the doing thereof , nor doe it not with a sincere minde in any obedience to god , but for corrupt and sinister ends of their owne . thus god sent the king of assyria against the iewes , isa . 10. 6. and bands of the caldees , and bands of other nations against jehojakim , and against iudah , to destroy it , 2 king. 24. 2. and yet they had no command from him to doe this , but sinned grievously in so doing . thus they that preached christ not sincerely , but of envie and strife , to adde affliction to pauls bands , yet inasmuch as they preached christ , might be said to be sent of god , and therefore the apostle joyed at their preaching , phil. 1. 15 , 16. thus baalam in his prophecies against the enemies of israel and for the happy state of gods people , might be said to be sent of god , though his heart and ends were corrupt and sinfull . but if men be not onely enabled with gifts for such or such a worke , but besides this , have a sincere minde and desire in the using thereof , to seeke the glory of god , and the good of soules , such men may much more be said to be sent of god , iohn 7. 18. for these men have not onely abilities and gifts from god , and permission to imploy them as the former had but also his spirit within them , which doth set their hearts on right and holy ends , which the other wanted . and yet if men doe want a lawfull office of ministery , wherein to exercise those gifts or a lawfull calling to that office or exercise , they may in that respect be said not to be sent of god , or not to be called of him though sent of him , in the first or second respect . thus in the scriptures it is said of some they ran and i sent them not , ier. 23. 21. i perceived that god had not sent him , but he pronounced his prophecies , because sanballat and tobiah had hired him , neh. 6. 12. and yet doubtlesse in respect of gods disposing providence , he had sent them , as the scripture witnesseth , that god sends strong delusions and lying prophets , and unfaithfull shepherds , 2 thes . 2. 11. 1 king. 22. 22 , 23. zech. 11. 16. to be a plague unto the sons of men , and for tryall to his servants , deut. 13. 3. 1 cor. 11. 19. now let these distinctions be applyed to the case in hand , and we may perceive how , if a man convert sinners , certainly god sends him ; and yet some that are not called to any office in the ministery , may through his blessing convert sinners : a man converts none unlesse god send him in the first or second sence and yet he may convert , and not bee sent , if sending be taken in the third sence , that is for a lawfull calling into some office in the church . and wee may adde , further a man may be sent in this third sence and yet convert none if he be not also sent in the first and second respect ; that is a man may have a lawfull calling outwardly unto a lawfull office in the church , and yet not convert sinners , if he want gifts or sincerity of heart , which might be the case of iudas , and of many wicked priests in the old testament : yea , happily convert none though he be truly sent in all three respects , as was said before in the beginning of the answer to this quaere . but if comparison be made , we doubt not , but whilest the ministery remaines uncorrupt , god is wont to follow with a greater blessing the labours of those who have gifts and an office of ministery also , then of those who have gifts alone without office . he is willing , and wonted to honour himselfe most , where most of his wayes are observed . master parker polit. eccles . l. 2. c. 39. &c. 41. observes a difference between the substantialls in church politie , and the accessaries or accidentalls ▪ and circumstantialls : and againe , that of circumstances some are generall , and some particular and individuall ; and so sheweth that the church politie in regard of the substantialls thereof is prescribed in the word , and therefore immutable . according to which distinction wee answer , that if those words ( precisely the same course ) mentioned in this question , be not meant of particular and individuall circumstances , but only of the substantialls or generall circumstances , then for ought we know there is no materiall point , either in constitution , or government , wherein the churches in n. e. ( viz. in the bay , in the jurisdiction of plymouth , at connectacute , and quilipiake ) do not observe the same course . ( and sure it is if they doe not they ought , because christ hath left but one way for all churches , and the same to be observed to the worlds end , 1 tim. 6. 13 , 14. ) onely , that conformity to the lyturgie and ceremonies in some places , to the northward , that anabaptisme at providence , and familisme at aquidneck ▪ hinders that we cannot say the same of them , nor of any other in n. e. that concurre with them in their unwarrantable wayes ▪ if there be any such , though thankes be to god there is none within this jurisdiction . who must have liberty to sit downe in this common-wealth and enjoy the liberties thereof is not our place to determine , but the magistrates who are the rulers and governours of the common-wealth , and of all persons within the same . and as for acknowledging a company to be a sister church , that shall set up , and practise another forme of church discipline , being otherwise in some measure , as you say , approveable , we conceive the companie that shall so doe , shall not be approveable therein . for the discipline appointed by jesus christ for his churches is not arbitrary , that one church may set up and practice one forme , and another another forme , as each one shall please , but is one and the same for all churches , and in all the essentialls and substantialls of it unchangable , and to be kept , till the appearing of jesus christ , 1 tim. 6. 13 , 14. from which place master cartwright observes the perpetuity of church government taught by the apostles , unto the end of the world , and is plain and large in this point , 1 rep. p. 177. as is likewise mr. parker polit. eccles . l. 2. c. 42. and so forward to the end of that book , unto whom we refer you herein . and if that discipline which we here practise , be ( as we are perswaded of it ) the same which christ hath appointed , and therefore unalterable , we see not how another can be lawfull ; and therefore if a company of people shall come hither , and here set up and practise another , we pray you thinke not much , if we cannot promise to approve of them in so doing , especially untill wee see how approvable the men may be , and what discipline it is that they would set up . for should wee in such generall words as is there expressed , promise to accept of a companie as a sister church ▪ that shall set up and practise another discipline , and then should be taken at the utmost extent of our words , we might by this meanes be bound to accept of a company of papists , or arminians , or familists , or anabaptists , as a sister church , for there is none of these but something may be found in them , and in their discipline , that is in some measure approveable . and yet we pray you heartily in the lord , so conceive of us in this passage , that we are farre from making any such comparison , as if your selves were not approved in our consciences far above the best of such men , yea and above our selves in many respects . we have said before in that which we sent you the last yeare , and upon this occasion we say it now againe , that you are in our hearts ( if the lord would suffer ) to live and dye together : and therefore if this question were meant of your selves , or any of you , and a company of godly people joyning with you ( as it may be it is , though we cannot certainly say it , because you doe not expresse so much ) we thinke if you were here , wee should gladly accept of you and your people as a sister-church , and that you would doe the like to ours ; and yet not when you should set up and practise one forme of church-discipline , and we another , but because we are perswaded if you were here , you would set up and practise the very same that wee doe , and not any other : or else if we be swerving from the rule in any particular ( as god knowes we are but weake men , and far from dreaming of perfection in this life ) god would by you send in more light unto us then yet we see , and make you instruments in his hand for perfecting what is here begun according to his will , for strengthening what is weake , and reforming what may be found to be amisse : for we trust in the lord , that as wee are desirous that you might joyne with us in the wayes wherein we now walke , ( which we doe not see but they are according to the rule ) so we should be as willing to receive light from you , and to redresse ( as god shall helpe us ) whatsoever by you or any other he may discover to us to stand in need of reformation . for which cause among others we doe the more earnestly desire , if it were the lords will that he might send you hither , nothing doubting but if you were here , there would be such agreement between you and us , that either you would approve of the things which we beleeve and practise , or that we should approve of what you may shevv us to be more agreeable to the minde of christ : and then there would be no occasion of such a question , whether we may set up and practise another discipline , and yet be accepted as a sister-church : but rather of blessing the lord , when that shall be accomplished in you and us which is written in the prophets , i will give them one heart and one way : i will turne unto the people a pure language , that they may all call upon the name of the lord , to serve him with one consent , jer. 32. 39. zeph. 3. 9. wee have confidence in you through the lord , that you will be none otherwise minded ; but if in any thing ye be otherwise minded god shall reveale even this unto you , gal. 5. 10. phil. 3. 15. this was answered in the answer to posit . 1. & 2. sent unto you the last yeare . finis . an apologie of the chvrches in new-england for chvrch-covenant . or , a discourse touching the covenant between god and men , and especially concerning church-covenant , that is to say , the covenant which a company doe enter into when they become a church ; and which a particular person enters into when he becomes a member of a church . sent over in answer to master bernard , in the yeare 1639. and now published for the satisfaction of all who desire resolution in this point . london , printed by t. p. and m. s. for benjamin allen. 1643. a discovrse tovching the covenant between god and men , and especially concerning church-covenant , that is to say , the covenant which a company do enter into when they become a church , and which a particular person enters into when he becomes a member of a church . 1639. jer . 50. 5. come let us joyne our selves to the lord , in a perpetuall covenant that shall not be forgotten . although that which is foretold in these two chapters ; and namely in the fourth and fifth verses of this chapter , was in part fulfilled when the people of god returned from captivitie in babylon at the end of seventie yeares : yet we must not limit the place to that time onely , but may extend it further to the dayes of the gospel , and the spirituall return , not of the jews onely , but of the gentiles also , when men shall be converted from pagan , antichristian , babylonish , or jewish bondage and captivitie , or from slavery to sinne , and self-righteousnesse , and shall be joyned to god in the fellowship of his church , in the dayes of the new testament . for as some passages in this scripture were never fully accomplished at the returne from the captivitie of the seventie yeares , and namely this , that the children of israel and judah should returne both together : ( for the ten tribes returned not at all : ) so many things that literally concerned the jewes were types and figures , signifying the like things concerning the people of god in these latter dayes : in which respect sincere converts are called jewes , rom 2. 29. and israelites , gal. 6. 16. joh. 1. 47. and our sacraments are made antitypes of theirs , 1 cor. 10. 1 , 2 , 3. and rome is called babylon , rev. 17. 5. and papists are called gentiles , rev. 11. 2. and therefore the captivitie of babylon might well be a type of the spirituall captivitie of gods people to antichristian bondage , and their returne from babylon to sion , a type of the returne of christians from romish slavery to the true sion , the christian church . and this may be added further , that this place seemes not onely to be meant of the private or personall conversion of this or that particular christian , but also further , of the open and joynt calling of a company , because it is said , they shall come , the children of israel and the children of judah together , and that their saying shall not be , let me joyne , &c. but in the plurall number , let us joyne our selves unto the lord , so noting the joyning of a company together in holy covenant with god. concerning which covenant with god , it will not be amisse for the better understanding of that which followes ; first , briefly to shew how diversly covenant is taken in the scripture , which sometimes imports generally any firme appointment or promise of god , when man doth not promise unto god any thing backe againe : thus the preserving of noah in the arke , and of the world from being drowned any more by a floud ; the interchangeable succession of day and night ; the giving of the priesthood unto phineas ; the setting forth of the shew-bread every sabbath before the lord , and the giving of the heave-offering unto the priests , are said to be done by a covenant , or an everlasting covenant of god , gen. 6. 18. & 9. 9 , 10 , 11. jer. 33. 20. num. 25. 12 , 13. levit. 24. 8. num. 18. 19. but sometimes covenant is taken more strictly and properly , for an agreement which god doth make with men , when he promiseth some blessing unto men , and bindes them to performe some dutie backe againe to him . taken thus it hath two parts : first , a promise or stipulation of some blessing on gods part : secondly , restipulation or promise , or binding of man unto dutie back againe on his part : both these are in those words of the covenant , i will be to thee a god , thou shalt be to me a people : and so gen. 17. 1. & v. 7 , 8 , 9 , 10. the covenant taken thus is either the covenant of workes , or the covenant of grace : and againe the covenant may be considered ; first as it is personall , private and particular , between god and one particular soule , making covenant with god , and god with him , either at his first conversion ; or at other times ; of which we reade 2 sam. 23. 5. & psal . 119 , 106. & 66. 13 , 14. & 27 8. & psal . 119. 7 , 8 secondly , it is generall and publick of a company joyntly together , of which this text jer. 50. 5. seemes most properly to speake : as also that deut. 29. 9 , 10 , &c. and that exod. 19. 5 , 6 , and many others : a covenant taken thus generally when it respects spirituall blessings , and spirituall duties , in the communion of saints , is that which is called church-covenant , which church-covenant differs not in substance of the things promised from that which is between the lord and every particular soule , but onely in some other respects ; as first , the one is of one christian in particular , the other of a company joyntly together . secondly , if right order be observed , a man ought not to enter into church-covenant , till he be in covenant with god before , in respect of his personall estate . thirdly , the one is usually done in private , as in a mans closet between the lord and his soule , and the other in some publick assembly . fourthly , the one in these dayes is of such duties as the gospel requires of every christian as a christian , the other of such duties as the gospel requires of every church and the members thereof . now concerning church-covenant , two things are to be noted for the better understanding thereof : first , the description of it : secondly , the use of it , and the benefit and fruit thereof . for the former it may be thus described , viz. a solemne and publick promise before the lord , whereby a company of christians , called by the power and mercy of god to fellowship with christ , and by his providence to live together , and by his grace to cleave together in the unitie of faith , and brotherly love , and desirous to partake together in all the holy ordinances of god , doe in confidence of his gracious acceptance in christ , binde themselves to the lord , and one to another , to walke together by the assistance of his spirit , in all such wayes of holy worship in him , and of edification one towards another , as the gospel of christ requireth of every christian church , and the members thereof . in this description , there are comprised six things : first , the generall name of the thing : [ a solemne and publick promise ] a promise it is , and therefore it is called , a joyning in covenant here : an entring into covenant , deut. 29. 10. solemne and publick , and therefore it is by the children of israel and the children of judah together : and they say , let us joyne . secondly , the object [ the lord , and one another ] joyne our selves to the lord it is not a promise onely to man , but to the lord himselfe , and likewise to one another ; for , come let us joyne , implyes mutuall consent together . thirdly , the agents or the qualification of the persons : [ christians ] not turkes , indians , &c. saints , psal . 50. 5. 16 , 17. [ called to fellowship with christ ] so 1 cor. 1. 9 else if they be not united to christ by faith , they are not fit materialls for such a building as a church of god , which is the house of the living god , ephes . 1. 1. 1 cor. 1. 2. phil. 1. 1. rev. 21. 27. [ by his providence to live together ] else they cannot partake in the lords ordinances together as churches ought to doe , 1 cor. 14. 23. act. 14 27. the whole church comes together in one place [ cleaving together in faith and love ] so act. 4 32. if they differ , namely , in opinion , or in their affection , and should joyne in this covenant , breaches , factions , rents , and schismes , would be like to be the issue of such joyning : things so unlike would not close nor long hold together , dan. 2. 43 [ desirous to partake in all ordinances ] this should be the ground of their joyning in covenant together , psal . 110. 3. willing : and not pride , nor gaine , nor the like : fourthly , the act [ binde themselves ] that now they are bound by their owne word and promise , that they may say now , as psal . 56. 12. thy vowes are upon me , or as num. 30. 2. if he binde his soule with a vow . fiftly , the matter promised ; [ to walke together in all such wayes of worship and mutuall edification , as the gospel requireth of churches and church-members ] they binde not themselves to observe any devises of their owne , nor inventions of men , but such things as the word of god requireth ; neither is it perfect obedience to the law , for that were impossible to performe , and presumption to promise ; nor is it onely in generall the duties of the gospel , but specially such duties of worship to god , & edification of one another as concerne church-state , which now they enter into . sixtly , the manner of performing [ confidence of gods gracious acceptance and assistance through christ ] for in all our wayes god must be acknowledged , pro. 3. 6. and much more in such speciall matters of weight : if men in entring into this covenant looke for acceptance , through any worth of their owne , or promise dutie in their own strength , they shew themselves like to the pharisees , luk. 18. 10 , 11. and turne the church-covenant into a covenant of workes : and as many as are of the workes of the law , are under the curse , gal. 3. 10. the use and benefit of this church-covenant , and the fruit thereof , may be seene in two particulars ; first , that this is that whereby a company of christians doe become a church : it is the constituting forme of a church . secondly , this is that by taking hold whereof a particular person becomes a member of a church , which was constituted afore . for the former of these ; every christian church must have in it both matter and forme , and as the matter by gods appointment are visible saints , or visible beleevers , ephes . 1. 1. 1 cor. 1. 2. and in the new testament , onely so many as may meete together in one congregation : so the forme is a uniting , or combining , or knitting of those saints together into one visible body , by the band of this holy covenant . some union or band there must be amongst them , whereby they come to stand in a new relation to god , and one towards another , other then they were in before : or els they are not yet a church , though they be fit materialls for a church ; even as soule and body are not a man , unlesse they be united ; nor stones and timber an house , till they be compacted and conjoyned . now that a company becomes a church , by joyning in covenant , may be made good sundry wayes ; first , by plaine texts of scripture ; as from deut. 29. 1 , 10 , 11 , 12 , 13. yee stand this day all you before the lord your god , your captaines of your tribes , your elders , your officers , with all the men of israel , ver . 10. that thou shouldest enter into covenant with the lord thy god , ver . 12. and he may establish thee for a people unto himselfe , ver . 13. so that here is plain●y shewed , that here was a company , ver . 10. and this company were to be established to be a people unto the lord , that is to say , a church , ver . 13. and this is done by the peoples entring into solemne covenant with god , ver . 12. and therefore a company of people doe become a church by entring into covenant with god. this covenant was not like our church-covenants , for it was of all the nation together ; whereas the church-covenant with us , is of some select persons , leaving out others . 1. this objection concerns the matter of a church , but the covenant is not the materiall cause of a church , but the formall cause thereof : and for this the text is ▪ plaine and expresse , that by entring into covenant with god , a people come to be the lords people , that is to say , his church . 2. if it was of all the people together , the reason was because that church was a nationall church : now if a nationall church becomes a church by entring into solemne covenant with god , then a congregationall church becomes a church by the same means ; for there is no difference between them in this point . 3. though it was of all the people , we may not say it proves that when we looke at the materiall cause of a church , there may be a promiscuous taking in of all commers without distinction or separation of the precious from the vile ; for , first , when god took in this nation to be his people , he separated them from all the nations of the earth besides : so that there was a distinction and separation of some from others . secondly , this generation was generally a generation of beleevers ; for it was they that were to enter into the land within a while after ; for they were fortie yeares in the wildernesse ▪ & this covenant was made in the last moneth save one of the last of those fortie yeares , deut. 1. 3. and their carkasses fell not in the wildernesse through unbeliefe , as their fathers did , num 14. heb. 3. but entred by faith , and when they were entred , subdued kingdomes by their faith , heb. 11. 33. and served the lord all the dayes of joshua , and of the elders that out lived joshua , josh . 24 31. as for that which is said of them , ver . 4 , 5. of this chap. that the lord had not given them eyes to see , &c. that proves not that they were wholly hardned in a carnall estate , but onely that they were dull and slow of heart to consider of sundry dispensations of god towards them ; for as much is said of the disciples of christ , mar. 8. 17 , 18. when doubtlesse they were not meere carnall or naturall persons . this people deut. 29. could not become the lords people by entring into solemne covenant with god , for they were the lords church and people already before this . 1. if they were , yet that was by entring into solemne covenant with god on mount sinai , when the lord had brought them up out of the land of aegypt ; for then they entred into solemne covenant with god , and god with them , and so they bec●me the lords peculiar people , exod. 19 ▪ 4 , 5 , 6 , 8. &c. if they were his people before that , yet that also was by covenant made with them in the loynes of abraham , when god tooke him and his seede to be his church and people , yet separating ishmael from isaac and es●● from jacob , that the inheritance of the covenant of god , and of being the church of god , might rest in the house of jacob. 2. yet it was not without great reason that the lord should now establish them by solemne covenant to be a people to himselfe , because the nation had been much degenerated from the spirit and wayes of abraham in aegypt , and had broken that covenant by their idolatries there , ezek. 20. 7 , 8. and the covenant made in sinai or hore● when they were come out of aegypt , they had also broken by their idolatries in the wildernesse , ezek 20. 13 , 16. for which causes , and the like , the lord consumed that generation , that they never entred into the land , josh . 5. 4 , 6. and therefore now when their posteritie and children were ready to enter in , the lord entred into covenant with them , and thereby established them to be his people , their fathers being cut off for breaking the covenant . but still it was by covenant that both fathers first , and children afterward became a church and people unto god ; and when this generation were entred into the land , their covenant made before between god and them , was confirmed by circumcision , josh . 5. 3. 7. they being not circumcised before . but this covenant was of the whole church with god , and therefore not like our church-covenants , which are between the church and the members , concerning watchfulnesse over one another , and the like . our church-covenants are with the lord himselfe , as was shewed before in the description thereof . for watchfulnesse and duties of edification one towards another , are but branches of the lords covenant , being duties commanded by the law : and so it was with that people of israel , who when they promised and covenanted to walke in all the wayes of god ; in all his statutes and commandements and judgements , they promised these duties of love and watchfulnesse and edification one towards another , because these were duties commanded and required of god , lev. 19 : 17. deut. 29 8. the neglect whereof in the matter of achan was the sinne of all the congregation ▪ and brought judgement upon them all , josh . 7. 11 , 12. yea by this covenant they were bound to duties towards them that were not then present , but children afterward to be borne , and proselytes , that afterward should be added to them , ver . 14 , 15. like as our church-covenants are with them that now are , and that hereafter shall become members of the same church . when jehojada made a covenant between the king and the people , 2 king. 11. 17. that covenant was but a branch of the lords covenant with them all , both king and people : for the king promised but to rule the people righteously , according to the will of god : and the people to be subject to the king so ruling . now these duties of the king to them , and of them to the king , were such as god required in his covenant , both of him and them : and so it is in church-covenant , the duties of the church to the members , and the members to the church , and one another , are no other but such as the gospel and the covenant of grace requireth both of the church and the members of it in their severall places . but this place of deut. 29. is not sufficient to prove a church-covenant in these dayes : because it is in the scriptures of the old testament , for what soever must be used in the dayes of the new testament , must be proved from the scriptures of the new testament , or else it is to be layd aside . 1. the church-covenant may be proved from the new testament also ▪ as will afterwards appeare . 2. but suppose there were not pregnant places for it in the new testament , yet it is not enough to prove the same unlawfull : for whatsoever ordinance of the old testament is not repealed in the new testament , as peculiar to the jewish paedagogie , but was of morall and perpetuall equitie , the same bindes us in these dayes ▪ and is to be accounted the revealed will of god in all ages , though it be not particularly and expressely mentioned in the writings of the new testament , else how shall we prove it unlawfull for a man to marry his sister , or his aunt ? how shall we prove it warrantable and necessary for magistrates to punish sabbath-breaking , blasphemy , and idolatry ? how shall we prove it lawfull to apply the seale of gods covenant unto infants ? or to admit women to eate of the holy things ; for the scriptures of the new testament doe speake little in these cases ; onely the scriptures of the old testament doe give direction , and light about them , lev ▪ 18. & 19. neh. 13. 15. &c. 2 chron. 15. 16. & 2 king. 23. gen. 17. 2. & exod. 12. 4. 6. and the new testament hath nothing to the contrary , and they are all according to morall equitie and reason , and therefore they are to be observed from the scriptures of the old testament , as the revealed will of god , though there were nothing expressely for them in the new. and the same we say of the particular in hand . for , that a company should be combined together into one body , in way of government and subjection , by way of mutuall free covenant ; as men doe when they enter into church estate , nothing is more naturall or agreeable to morall equitie ; nay , it implyeth a contradiction in the very name of libertie or freedome , that free-men should take upon them authoritie or power over free men without their free consent , and voluntary and mutuall covenant or engagement . and therefore seeing this covenant is not repealed in the scriptures of the new testament , the scriptures of the old are sufficient warrant for it . another scripture to prove the same , is deut. 26. 16 , 17 , 18. with deut. 27. 9. this day the lord hath commanded thee to doe these statutes and judgements ▪ thou shalt therefore keepe and doe them , &c. thou hast avouched the lord this day to be thy god , and to walke in his wayes , and to keepe his statutes , &c. and the lord hath avouched thee this day to be his peculiar people ; take heed and hearken , o israel , this day thou art become the people of the lord thy god. this scripture plainly shewes these things : 1. that here was the making of a covenant between god and man ; for that avouching of god to them , and them to god , was the making of covenant , ver . 17 , 18. 2. this was not of one person , but of a company together , the whole people of israel , 26. 18. & 27. 9. 3 here is the effect of this covenant , that thereby they become the lords people , ver . 9. so that when a company doe enter into holy covenant with god , they become thereby the lords people , that is to say , his church . so ezech. 16. 8. proves the same likewise : i entred into covenant with thee , saith the lord , and thou becam●st mine . here also is the making of covenant between the lord and men ; and this covenant was not personall , but of a company ; for it was with hierusalem , ver . 2. which was a whole citie ; it was with them that were multiplied as the bud of the feild , ver . 7. and it was with them that did prosper into a kingdome , ver . 13. and therefore not meant onely of any one particular person : and by this covenant they became the lords ; that is , the lords church and people ; for it is expresly said , i entred into covenant with thee , and thou becamest mine . so that when a company enter into covenant with god , and god with them , they become thereby the lords church and people . likewise ezek. 20. 37. i will cause you to passe under the rod ; and i will bring you into the bond of the covenant . in which place , there is first mention of an holy covenant . secondly , this was not of one person , but of a company , the whole house of israel , ver . 30. 39. thirdly , and this covenant is called a bond , because it is by covenant that a people are bound , and tyed , and knit together , as one church , all of them unto the lord , and one unto another ; so that the covenant is the bond of union , by which a company are so combined and united , as that they become a church . it is also observable , how the lord before he would bring them into this bond of the covenant , he would cause them to passe under the rod ; by which phrase , as junius upon the place well observes , is meant tryall and probation ; drawne from the manner of shepheards or owners of cattell , who went among their sheepe , or other cattell with a rod , and therewith pointed out such as were for the lords holy use , as lev. 27. 32. and so hereby is noted that god would not in the dayes of the gospel have men to be brought into his church hand over head , but he would first cause them to passe under the rod of due tryall and probation ; and then such as upon tryall were found to be holy for god , or meete matter for his church , should solemnly enter into covenant with god , and that covenant should be the bond that should combine them , and knit them together into one , that so they that were many particular persons , should all become one body , that is to say , a church . and so much of the first argument drawne from plaine texts of scripture . a second argument may be taken from the titles that are given to the church ; as first , that the church is said to be married or espoused unto christ , jer. 2. 2. & 3. 14. 2 cor. 11. 2. from whence the argument may be formed thus : if every church becomes a church by being married or espoused unto christ , then a company becomes a church by way of covenant : but the former is true , therefore the latter is true also . the assumption , that a church becomes a church by being married unto christ , is plaine from the former scriptures , where the church of israel , and the church of corinth , in regard of their entring into church-estate , are said to be espoused and married unto christ , as a loving and chast virgine to one husband . which spirituall marriage between christ and his church , is also taught in the type of the marriage between king salomon and pharoahs daughter , psal . 45. the consequence of the proposition is plaine in reason ; for there is no marriage but by way of covenant ; no woman becomes a mans wife , but by way of bestowing her selfe in covenant upon such a man : neither doth a man become an husband , but by the same means ; and therefore the scripture speaking of the violation of marriage , calls it a violation of covenant , prov. 2. 17. christ hath but one wife or spouse , cant. 6 9. the catholique church indeed is but one ; viz ▪ the whole company of gods elect in heaven , in earth , dead , now living , and not yet borne : but as there is the church-catholique , which is but one ; so there are particular and visible churches , which are in number many ; and therefore the scripture speakes of churches , 2 cor. 8. 1. 19. gal. 1. 2. of the churches of the gentiles , rom. 16. 4. of seven churches , rev. 1. 4. of all churches , 1 cor. 14. 33. & 7. 17. rev. 2. 23. but if every particular church be the wife of christ , how many hundred wives should he have ? 1. if the church of israel , jer. 2. 2. the church of corinth , 2 cor. 11. 2. the jewish church , rev. 19. 7. be the spouse and wife of christ , there is no reason but others should be the same also , especially seeing there is no particular church , but in respect of their church estate , they may decline and goe a whoring from christ , and that shews that they were first espoused to him ; for no woman can be said to goe a whoring from a man , if shee were never married , nor espoused to him at all . 2. this that seemes an absurditie , and were a sinfull practise among men , in respect of christ , is a certaine truth , and no dishonour unto him at all , to have more spouses then one upon earth , many spirituall spouses . men cannot give themselves wholly and intirely to many as christ can . every faithfull soule is espoused and married unto christ ; and in that respect he hath not onely many hundred but many thousand , yea many millions of spirituall spouses . but this spirituall marriage is between christ and the church , but the church-covenant is between the church and the members , and therefore this marriage doth not prove the church-covenant . 1. in some sort there may be said to be a marriage between the church and the members , viz. in respect of that deare love and affection , that ought to be between them ; and therefore it is said , as a young man marrieth a virgine , so shall the children of the church be married to the church , isa . 62. 5. 2. but properly the marriage is between christ & the church , and so is the covenant also , so farre as therein they give up themselves to christ as unto an head and lord ; as a woman in the covenant of marriage doth give up her selfe unto her husband ; and the performance of such duties as the church and the member owe one unto another , is a branch of that marriage-covenant , wherein they are tyed to christ ; for christ himselfe in his covenant requires , not onely that they should give up themselves to him , but also that they should performe these duties one unto another . and accordingly it is said of the churches in macedonia , that they gave up themselves first to the lord , and then to us by the will of god , 2 cor. 8. 5. true it is , they doe also binde themselves by covenant one unto another , but in that respect the covenant is properly a brotherly covenant ; like that 1 sam. 20 8. amos 1. 9. because there the engagement is to one another as brethren , fellow-members , and fellow-helpers , and not as to one head or lord , as it is in respect of christ , and therefore in that respect it is not so properly a marriage-covenant as it is in respect of christ : though duties to one another are promised in their covenant with one another , and also in their covenant with christ . in briefe thus : they promise unto christ duties to him , and duties to one another according to him : and so their covenant is a marriage-covenant with christ : they promise also to one another , duties to one another , and so it is a brotherly covenant . another title given to the church ( which also proves that a church is made by covenant ) is the title of a citie , or citie of god , psal . 87. 3. & 48 1. 8. & 122. 3. ephes 2. 19. the argument lyeth thus ▪ if a true church be a citie of god , then a church becomes a church by covenant : but every true church is a citie of god. ergo. the assumption is proved by the scriptures forealledged . the consequence of the proposition is plaine in reason , for every citie is united by some covenant among themselves , the citizens are received into jus civitatis , or right of citie priviledges , by some covenant or oath ; and therefore it is so likewise in this citie of god the church ; and men become citizens of the church by solemne covenant . the third argument may be drawne from the meanes of reforming and restoring a church when it is corrupted , which is by entring into covenant a new with god , 2 chron. 15 10. & 29. 10. & neh. 9. 38. & 10. 28 , 29. jer. 50. 4 , 5. the reason may be taken thus : if a church decayed is to be restored and reformed by renuing covenant with god , then it was instituted and erected at the first by way of covenant : the reason of which consequence is , because abuses and corruptions are to be reformed by bringing things back to the first institution : thus christ reformes the abuses of marriage , by bringing them to the first institution of that ordinance ; from the beginning it was not so , mat. 19 8. and thus paul reformeth the abuses of the lords supper , by telling them what was the first institution thereof , 1 cor. 11. 23 , &c. and thus the lord jesus calling on the declining church of ephesus for reformation , bids her remember from whence shee is fallen , and repent and doe her first workes , rev. 2. 5. now the assumption is plaine from the texts above alledged , that at the reforming of a church , there is to be a renuing of covenant ; and thence it follows , that at the first erecting of a church , there was the making of a covenant with god , for els this renuing of covenant would not have been the way to reforme it . the fourth argument is taken from that which doth dissolve a church , which is the dissolving or breaking of the covenant , zach. 11. 9 , 10 , 14. if dissolving the covenant be that which doth dissolve the church , then the making of covenant is that which constitutes a church . the reason of the consequence is plaine , because otherwise the covenant might be dissolved & the church stand still , if it were not the making of the covenant that did constitute the church : but if dissipating stones in a building doe dissolve the house , then the compacting and conjoyning of them is that which makes the house ; if separation of soule and body be that which destroyes the man , that then we say he is not : it must needs be the uniting of them , that did constitute & make the man : and so it is in this case . and that dissolving the covenant is that which dissolves a church , is plaine from the text alledged , zach. 11. where the breaking of the two staves , of beautie and bands , that is , the unchurching of the jewes , is interpreted to be the breaking of the covenant that god had made with that people , and the brotherhood that was between judah and israel . the fifth argument is taken from the distinction which god hath appointed amongst churches , and the confounding of all churches into one , if there be not this covenant to distinguish them . if churches be distinct societies , and may not be confounded , then churches are compacted and combined by covenant : but the former is true . ergo. that churches are distinct societies , is plaine in the scripture , where we have mention of many churches in one countrey or province , gal. 1. 1. 1 thes . 2. 14. of seven churches in asia , rev. 1. 4. and of all the churches , 1 cor. 14. 33. rev. 2. 23. ephesus is not smyrna , nor smyrna is not thyatira , nor either of them pergamus , but each one distinct of themselves , having officers of their owne , which did not belong to others : vertues of their owne for which others are not praised , corruptions of their owne , for which others are not blamed ; if it were not thus , then when lacdicea is condemned for lukewarmenesse , or ephesus for declining , all the rest should be reproved also : and when philadelfia is praised , all the rest should be praised also , which we see is otherwise . now from hence the consequence is certaine , that therefore they are combined by some covenant each one amongst themselves ; for there is nothing els without this that wil sufficiently distinguish them . the spirit of god and faith in their hearts , is common to all christians under heaven , and in heaven also , and therefore this is not the thing that makes distinction . nor is it habitation in the same towne together , for that may be common to such christians as are not of this church , and usually is to many that are no christians . as it is with companies in london ; as the company of goldsmiths , &c. that many others dwell in the same towne with them , yea it may be in the same streete that are not of their company : and therefore it is not meerely habitation that doth distinguish them from others , but some combination and agreement amongst themselves ; so it is not habitation in the same towne that distinguisheth churches , and church-members from other men , but their mutuall agreement and combination and joyning themselves together in an holy covenant with god. if the spirit of god and faith in their hearts cannot distinguish one church from another , because these are common to them all , then how can covenant distinguish them , sith all churches are joyned by covenant one as well as another ? it is not a covenant simply or a covenant in generall that doth constitute a church , or distinguish one church from another , but a covenant with application and appropriation to these persons . even as it is in marriage , though all married couples be united by covenant , and a covenant wherein one couple promiseth the same duties that another couple doth , yet a covenant with application and appropriation of the duties covenanted to this man and this woman in particular , such a covenant is the very thing that make a couple , man and wife together , and gives them mutuall power over each other , as husband and wife , and puts a distinction between them and all other men and women in the world . and so it is in this case ; a covenant to performe church-duties with application and appropriation to such persons , is the very thing that constitutes a church , and distinguisheth one church from another . and thus much concerning the former of the two particulars , to shew the use of church-covenant , viz. that it is that whereby a company doe become a church . the second particular is this , that taking hold of the covenant , or joyning in it , is that which makes a particular person a member of a church . and this followes upon the former , and that may be the first argument to prove it . if joyning in covenant be that which makes a company to become a church , then taking hold of that covenant is requisite to make a particular person become a member of the church : but the first is true , as hath been shewed before ; therefore the second is true also : if compacting and conjoyning of stones and pieces of timber be , that that makes an house , then a particular stone cannot become a part of that house , till it be compacted and con●oyned to the rest : but the former is true , even in the church of god , which is the spirituall spouse and citie of god , living stones , christians , beleevers must be compacted together , and builded up together , ephes . 2. 21. 22. psal . 12● 3. and therefore the latter is true also , that a particular christian becomes a member of the church , a part of that building by being combined with the rest . a second argument may be drawne from the scripture , isa . 56. 3 , 6 , 7. let not the sonne of the stranger , that hath joyned himselfe to the lord , speake , saying , the lord hath utterly separated me from his people , &c. the sonnes of the strangers that joyne themselves to the lord , to serve him , &c. and take hold of my covenant , even them will i bring to my holy mountaine , and make them joyfull in my house of prayer , &c. concerning which scripture , note three things to the present purpose . first , that these strangers were members of christ , true beleevers , joyned to god by faith ; for it is said , they have joyned themselves to the lord , v. 3 & v. 6. that they loved the name of the lord , served him , and kept his sabbaths , v. 6. and yet for all this they were not as yet joyned as members of the visible church , for if they had been joyned , there would have been no cause for such a complaint , the lord hath separated me from his people , v. 3. besides , bringing them into the church as members , and granting them the priviledge of members , is promised as a reward and blessing upon this their joyning to the lord by faith and obedience , v. 7. and therefore it is not the same , but a distinct thing from it ; the one being promised as a reward and blessing upon the other . secondly , the lord promiseth that he will make them members of his church : them will i bring to my holy mountaine , and make them joyfull in my house of prayer . thirdly , that among other things requisite to make them members , this was one , viz. the taking hold of that covenant which was between the church of israel and god , v. 6. so that hence we may gather , that men may be members of christ , joyned to the lord by faith and love , and yet for the present not be members of the visible church : and that when god is so gracious to true beleevers , as to make them members of his visible church , it is requisite that they joyne in covenant before . but might not faith in christ , beleeving in heart on the god of israel , be all the taking hold of the covenant that is here meant . not so , but over and above that , here is also meant their open profession of their faith in the god of israel , and open binding of themselves by covenant to all such duties of faith and obedience , as god required of the church of israel , and the members thereof . now distinctly take the answer to this objection in three or foure particular propositions . first , there was a covenant between the church of israel and god , exod. 19. 5 , 6 , 7 , 8. ezek 16. 8. deut. 29. 10. &c. secondly , this covenant was mutuall ; not onely a promise on gods part to be their god , and to take them for his people , but also reciprocally on their part to give up themselves unto god to be his people , and to doe the dutie of people to their god ; the covenant is not meerely to receive from god , and promise nothing back againe to him ; nor doth god binde himselfe therein , and leave men at libertie , but it is mutuall on both parts , as these scriptures declare ; gen. 17. 1. exod. 197. 8. deut. 5. 27. & 26. 16 , 17. hos . 2. 23. & zach. 13. 9. thirdly , hereupon it followes , that if men had not promised , and also performed , in some measure of truth , the duties of faith and obedience unto god , they had not taken hold of the covenant , but had discovenanted themselves , notwithstanding all the promises of god unto their fathers or others . thus though god promised abraham to be a god to him , and to his seede in their generations , gen. 17. 7. yet the ishmaelites and edomites descending from abraham , were discovenanted by not promising nor performing those duties of faith and obedience , which god required on the peoples part : when a covenant containes promises on gods part , and duties also on mans , he doth not take hold of the covenant that takes one part , and leaves another . fourthly , to beleeve what god promised in the covenant for his part , and to promise in a private way the duties of obedience on mans part , was not sufficient to make these strangers members of the church , but they must doe it openly and in the view of the church , else the church could have had no warrant to have admitted such into their fellowship , if their faith and obedience had not been visibly professed , exod. 12. 43. 48 2 chron. 23. 19. and in as much as the covenant was mutuall , when these strangers did manifest their taking hold of the covenant , they manifested and professed both faith and obedience , both that they beleeved what god promised , and that they would be obedient to what he required ; if any should have claimed church-fellowship , saying , i beleeve the promises , but would not binde himselfe to any duties of evangelicall obedience , this had been a taking hold of the covenant by the halves , a taking of one part of it in seeming and pretence , and a leaving of another ; but it would not have been sufficient to have brought a man into the fellowship of the church : such of the congregation of israel as would not come to hierusalem to enter into covenant , were to be separated from the church in the dayes of ezra , ezra 10. 8. and therefore such as being strangers should refuse to enter into it , could not be admitted into the church ; so that the taking hold of gods covenant , which is there required to make these strangers members of the church , is a beleeving in heart on the god of israel , and an open profession that they did beleeve , and likewise a promise of obedience or subjection unto the god of israel , and an open professing of such obedience and subjection ; and that is the joyning in covenant which we stand for , before a man can be a member of a church , even an open profession of faith and of obedience . a third argument is taken from those scriptures which shew that men become members by being added to the church , or being joyned to them , act. 2. 47. & 5. 13. & 9. 26. if men become members of the church by being added or joyned , then joyning in covenant ( or professing of subjection to the gospel or covenant of god ) is that whereby a man becomes a member of a church : but the former is true , as appeares by the scriptures forementioned , and therefore the latter is true also . but all the doubt in this argument will be concerning the consequence of the major proposition ; but that may be made good by this reason , and the confirmation of it , viz. that a man cannot be added or joyned to the church by any other meanes without this joyning in covenant . the truth of which assertion will appeare by shewing the insufficiency of all other means , without this joyning in covenant , and that may be done in answer to the objections ensuing . when men were added to the church , it may be , no more is meant but that god did convert them and worke faith in their hearts , and that converting of them was the adding of them to the church . this cannot be all ; for , first , saul was converted and had faith wrought in his heart , and yet he was not at the first received for a member of the church at hierusalem ( though he assayed to be joyned unto them , ) till they were better satisfied in his spirituall estate by the testimony of barnabas , act. 9. 26 , 27 , 28. and those strangers , isa . 56. ( as was said before ) were joyned to the lord by being converted , and having faith wrought in their hearts , and yet they doe lament it with griefe , that they were not joyned as members to the visible church : the lord hath separated me from his people , say they , ver . 3. the old saying is true concerning the visible church , there are many wolves within , and many sheepe without . secondly , those that were joyned were beleevers before they joyned ; for it is said , divers were added , ver . 14. thirdly , those that were added to the church , were added and joyned to them by such an act as others durst not put forth , act. 5. 13. of the rest durst no man joyne unto them , and therefore it was not by the irresistable act of god in converting of them , but by some voluntary act of their owne choice and consent ; for gods converting grace depends not upon mans daring , or not daring to receive it . if to be joyned be no more but to be converted , then when it is said , some durst not be joyned , the meaning should be , they durst not be converted , nor suffer faith to be wrought in them ; which is grosse arminianisme , suspending the converting grace of god upon the free will of the creature . fourthly , and as this joyning which others durst not doe , cannot be meant of being converted ; so if it be well considered , what the thing was wherein they durst not joyne , it may appeare that it was nothing els but this , that they durst not agree , and engage themselves to be of their body and societie ; that is , they durst not joyne in covenant with them . for it cannot be meant of dwelling in the towne with them , for this they both durst doe and did : nor is it onely of joyning to heare the word in their assembly , for this also they durst doe , and many did it in great multitudes , so that many by hearing the word became beleevers , and were added to the lord both of men and women , ver . 14. at this very time when it is said of some they durst not joyne unto them : nor is it of joyning to them in affection , or approbation of their way , for this they also durst doe and did expresse so much in magnifying and commending them , when yet they durst not joyne unto them , ver . 13. which magnifying of them doth imply that they heard their doctrine , and saw their practise , and approved it , and highly commended them for the same : wherefore seeing this joyning , which some durst not doe , cannot be meant of being converted , nor of joyning in habitation , nor of joyning in affection , nor in hearing the word in their assembly , nor of approbation , and expressions that way , it remaineth that it must be meant of joyning in that neere relation of church-fellowship amongst them , so as to be engaged by voluntary consent and agreement to be members of their church . fiftly , if joyning to the church , were no more but to be converted , then he that were converted were joyned as a member of every visible church throughout the world , which were a great confusion of that order , and distinction of churches , which the lord hath appointed . men may be joyned to the church , in heartie affection and love , and yet without any covenant . true , but this will not make them members of that church , for then saul was a member of the church at hierusalem , afore he was joyned a member , for he was joyned to them in heartie affection afore , and therefore assayed to joyne as a member ; and so were they that durst not joyne , act. 5. 13. yea then a man should be a member of many churches , yea of all christian churches in the world ; for he is to love them , and beare heartie affection to them all ; the true members of the churches in england are united in heartie affection , to the churches in scotland , in holland , in france , in new-england , &c. and yet they are not members of all these churches , nor subject to their censures as members are . but the reason of that is because they doe not dwell among them in the same towne . neither would habitation with them in the same towne , make a man a member of the church there , if there be no more then so . suppose saul to have dwelt in the same house afore his conversion in which he dwelt after , which is not unpossible nor unlikely ; yet we see he was no member of the church at hierusalem , afore his conversion , no nor of some time after , though he might have dwelt in an house in the midst of the christians , and church-members there . the members of the dutch and french churches in london , or other townes in england , are not members of the english-congregations or churches , no more then the english are of theirs , and yet they dwell promiscuously together in the same streete of the same towne . towne-dwelling would not make a man a free-man of a company in london , or some other corporation ; for many others dwell in the towne with them ; yea it may be in the same streete , that are not free of their company , and so it is in this case . but the reason why such as dwell in towne with the church , are not members thereof , may be , because they frequent not their . assemblies . idiots and infidells might come into the publick meetings among the corinthians , 1 cor. 14. 23 , 24 , 25. yet idiots and infidells were not therefore members of the church . and saul after his conversion might have come in among the church in time of publick duties , and have seene and heard all that they had done : yet this would not have made him of one body with them . some indians , moores , and other naturall persons come into our meetings in new-england , some of their owne accord , and others by the command or counsell of their masters and governours yet no man can say , that all these are hereby made church-members . wherefore seeing neither conversion , nor loving affection , nor cohabitation , nor coming into their meetings , doth joyne a man as a member of the visible church ( for some men have all these , and yet are not members , and others are sometimes members of the visible churches , and yet want some of these , are hypocrites and want sound conversion ) it remaineth therefore that as sound conversion makes a man fit matter for a church ; so profession of his faith , and of his subjection to the gospel , and the churches approbation , and acceptance of him ( which is the summe of church-covenant ) is the formall cause that gives him the being of a member . but joyning doth not alway signifie joyning in covenant ; philip joyned to the eunnuchs chariote , and dust to mens feete , act. 8. 29. & luke 10 , 11. and yet there was no covenant , and therefore men may joyne to the church without any covenant . the word indeed may expresse any close joyning , whether naturall , ( as the branch is joyned to the vine , or an arme or other member to the body ) or artificiall , as when two stickes were joyned to become one in ezekiels hand , ezek. 37. or when carpenters or masons doe joyne pieces of stone or timber together , to make one house , neh. 4. 6. ezr. 4. 12. but is not onely the force of the word that is stood upon . but when joyning is used to expresse such joyning , wherein a man voluntarily takes on him a new relation , there it alwayes implyes a covenant , whether the relation be morall and civill , or religious and ecclesiasticall : we speake of voluntary relation , for there are naturall relations , as betweene parents and children : and these need no covenant , there is no covenant to make a man a parent , or a childe ; there are also violent relations , as between conquerour and captives , and in these there is no covenant neither ; but others are voluntary , and these alwayes imply a covenant , and are founded therein , whether they be morall and civill ( as between husband and wife , pro. 2. 17. between master and servants , luk. 15. 15. between prince and subject , between partners in trade , 2 chro. 20. 35 , 36 , 37. where the covenant or agreement is , that men shall bare such a share of charges , and receive such a share of profits : ) or religious , as between minister and people , between the church and the members : all these are done by way of covenant . a man cannot joyne himselfe to a woman as her husband , but by way of covenant : a man cannot joyne himselfe to another as a servant , or apprentise , but by way of covenant ; and so may we say of all the rest ; nor into any body corporate , but by the same way and means . if men be united into a body politick or incorporate , a man cannot be said to be joyned to them by meere heartie affection , unlesse withall he joynes himselfe unto them by some contract or covenant . now of this nature is every particular church , a body incorporate , 1 cor. 12. 27. yee are the body of christ , &c. and hath power to cast out , 1 cor. 5. 13. and to forgive and receive in penitents , 2 cor. 2. 7. 8 as a body incorporate ; and therefore he that will joyne unto them , must doe it by way of covenant or agreement ; and so this answer to this objection , may be a fourth argument to prove the point in hand , that joyning in covenant is that which makes a man , a member of a church . all voluntary relations , all relations which are neither naturall nor violent , are entred into by way of covenant . but he that joynes into a church as a member , or enters into a church , doth take upon him such a relation ; therefore joyning ▪ to a church as a member , is by way of covenant . a fifth argument may be drawne from the power which all churches , officers and members , have over all their members in the lord. if all churches , officers , and members , have power in the lord over all their members , then joyning in covenant is necessary to make a man a member of a church , but the former is true , therefore the latter is true also . the assumption in this argument , that all churches have power over their members , is proved from 1 cor. 5. 4 , 5. 13. where the apostle reproveth the corinthians for suffering the incestuous man amongst them , and commands them to deliver him to satan , and cast him out from amongst them . now this he would not have done , if they had had no power over him , or if there had been any roome for them to say , wee have nothing to doe with him , wee have no power over him . and the same is prooved in other scriptures also ; as , mat. 18. 17. psal . 149. 6. 7 , 8 , 9. and the consequence of the major proposition , viz. that then members doe engage themselves by covenant , is proved by this reason ; that churches have no power over such as have not engaged themselves by covenant , and committed power unto them , by professing to be subject to all the ordinances of christ amongst them . the truth whereof may appeare by two reasons : first , because all christians have power and right , jure divino , to choose their owne officers to whom they commit their soules , act. 6. & 1. & 14. 23. where the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , imports choosing by election : and so the word is used and translated , 2 cor. 8. 19. he was chosen by the churches , &c. it is not ministeriall gifts that makes a man a minister to every church , nor investeth him with spirituall power over them , nor though he dwell amongst them , unlesse they call him , and he accept of that call : and as they have power to choose their officers , so likewise to choose their brethren according to god , rom. 14. 1. now if they have power to choose their officers and brethren , then none can have power over them as officers and brethren , without their owne consent , and whom they never chose , nor promised by any covenant or engagement to be subject to the lord. secondly , if the church should exercise any act of church-power over such a man as never entred into covenant with them ( suppose to excommunicate him for whoredome or drunkennesse , or the like ) the man might protest against their act , and their sentence , as coram non judice , and they could not justifie their proceedings , if indeed there have passed no covenant or engagement between him and them . if he shall say , you have nothing to doe to passe sentence or censure upon me , i am none of your church , but of another church ; suppose in holland , in france , &c. and i am onely here now for merchandise sake , or upon some other occasion : what shall they say to stop his mouth , if there never passed any covenant between him and them . but ministers have power over the people by the word of god , heb. 13. 17. 1 thes . 5. 12. 1 tim. 5. 17. and not by mens engaging themselves by covenant . but what is it that makes men ministers to such a people , officers to such a church , or maketh them sheepe of my flocke ? is it not those scriptures that makes every man a pastour , or teacher , or ruler to a people , unlesse they call him to that office ; and then in so doing they covenant and engage themselves to be subject to him in the lord , and then those scriptures take hold on them . one might as well say , it is not the covenanting of a wife to her husband that gives him power over her , but the word of god ; for as the word of god commands people to obey their ministers , so it commands wives to be subject to their husbands , ephes . 5. 22. and yet all men know , a man cannot take this woman for his ▪ wife but by covenant . so that if shee once makes her selfe a wife by her owne voluntary covenant , then the word of god takes hold on her , and bindes her to doe the duties of a wife : but if shee ▪ hath made no covenant , the man hath no power over her as her husband , neither is shee his wife ; so if men once make themselves members of such a church , sheepe of such a mans flocke , by their own voluntary covenant , then the word of god takes hold of them , and bindes them to doe the duties of members to their fellow-brethren , and of people to their pastours or ministers . but if they never chose such a man to be their minister , nor covenanted to be subject to him in the lord , he then can have no power over them as a minister unto them , because they have right to chose their owne ministers . a sixth argument may be taken from the distinction that is between members , and not members . if there be by the word of god a distinction , between members of the church and such as are no members , then joyning in covenant is necessary to the being of a member ; but the former is true , as appeares 1 cor. 5. 12. some are within , and may be judged by the church , and others are without , and may not ▪ and therefore the latter is true also . and the reason of the consequence is because there is nothing else without this joyning in covenant , that can sufficiently distinguish them ; it is not faith and grace in their hearts , for some men are members of the visible church , and yet have no grace , and others may have grace , and yet be no members , and therefore this is not the thing that doth distinguish them , nor is it affection , nor cohabitation , nor every approbation of the word of god , and the wayes of his church , nor comming into their assemblies to heare the word ; but these things were touched before , and therefore may be here the more briefly passed over . and so much shall suffice to have spoken of the second particular , concerning the use of church-covenant , that it is by joyning therein that a particular person becomes a member of a church . but here it will be needfull to remove sundry objections , which may seeme to some to be of great weight against church-covenant , that so by the removing of them , the truth may be the more cleared , to fuller satisfaction , if it be the will of god. church-covenant is a terme that is not found in scripture . first , so is sacrament , trinitie , &c. and yet those termes may be lawfully used , because the thing meant thereby is found . secondly , but seeing the covenant is between the lord and his church , as the two parties that are confederate , it is all one whether it be called the lords covenant , or the church-covenant : as when mamre , aver , & eschol were confederate with abraham , gen. 14. 13. might not one truely say , abraham was confederate with them ? relatives doe mutually put and establish one another . thirdly , the scripture allowes both the lords covenant with the church , eze. 16. 8. & the peoples covenant or saints covenant , or churches covenant with him , deut. 29. 12. psal . 50. 5. jer. 50. 5. fourthly , there is good reason for both the words ; both the lords covenant , and the church-covenant , because both are confederate ; and for that of church-covenant , there is this reason also , viz. to distinguish it from other covenants , as a marriage-covenant , pro. 2. 17. and a brotherly covenant , 1 sam. 20. 8. the church-covenant being thus called not onely because they are a church , or members thereof that make it , but also because they enter into it in reference to church-estate and church-duties : the duties which they bind themselves unto in this covenant being such especially as concern a church and the members thereof . but this church-covenant puts some disparagement upon the covenant of grace , which every beleever is already entred into with god , and seeme to charge the same with insufficiency ; for every second covenant doth argue that the first was not faultlesse , heb. 8. 7. 1. a second covenant doth argue that the first was not faultlesse , where the covenants are contrary one to another , as the covenant of grace , and the covenant of works are , and so it is most true , that the bringing in of the free covenant of grace did argue that righteousnes and life could not be attained by the law , or covenant of works ; for if there had been a law given which could have given life , verily righteousnesse should have been by the law. gal. 3. 21. rom. 8. 3. 2. but if it be the same covenant that is renewed or made againe , though upon a new occasion , no man can say that entring into the same the second time , or a third , or a fourth , doth disanull the first , or cast disparagement upon the same . the covenant of works given to adam was not blamed or faulted , because it was renewed in sinai . the covenant of grace was first given to adam in paradise after his fall , afterward to abraham , then to the people of israel under types and shadows ; and againe after the coming of christ in the flesh ; yet none of these doth disanull the former , or argue the same to be faulty ; and the reason is , because it is still the same covenant though renewed upon new occasions ; and in some particulars in some other manner . and the like we say concerning church-covenant , or the covenant which a man makes when he enters into the church , viz. that it is not another covenant contrary to the covenant of grace , which every beleever is brought into at his first conversion , but an open profession of a mans subjection to that very covenant , specially in the things which concerne church estate , into which estate the man is now entring . it is not lawfull to make such a covenant as the church-covenant , because it is not in our power to keep it , and we do not know whether god will give us power . this ground is very true , that no man hath power of himselfe to any thing that good is , but all a mans power and abilitie must come of god through christ , 2. cor. 3. 5. phil. 2. 13. joh. 15. 5. but the inference is not good , that therefore it should be unlawfull to ento into church-covenant : for 1. by the same reason , all promises are unlawfull , and all covenants whatsoever ; as the covenant of marriage , the covenant of service , yea and the personall covenant of grace , when a particular soule promiseth faith and new obedience ; for there is none of these , no not the covenant of marriage , which a man is able of himself to keep , as the adultery of david and bathsheba , among others , doth plainly prove . 2. god hath promised to give power to them that in self-deniall seek it of him , and trust to his promise for it . ezek. 36. 27. jer. 31. 33. rom. 6. 14. jer. 32. 40. the true inference therefore from this ground , from mans disabilitie to performe were this , that therefore a man should not enter into church covenant in his owne strength , for that was peters fault in promising not to deny christ , but to die with him rather : but church-covenant , as also all other promises , should be entred into , in an humble looking up to christ jesus for help and assistance to performe . thou therefore my sonne , be strong in the grace that is in christ jesus , 2. tim. 2. 1. god disalloweth covenants of mans making ( and so our church-covenant ) in those words , but not by thy covenant . ezek. 16. 61. god doth not reprove them there for making covenant , for then he were contrary to himselfe , who elsewhere called them to do it , exod. 29. deut. 29. and commended them for it , psal . 50. 5. yea and in that very place of ezek. 16. acknowledgeth a covenant betweene him and them , ver . 60. 62. but the meaning is , he would do them good , but not for their good keeping the covenant of works , for they had very sinfully broken it , ver . 59 but even as he saith elsewhere , not for their sakes , or for their righteousnesse , ezek. 36. 32. deut. 9. 4 , 5 , 6. but what force is there in this arguing , viz. if god will do us good , but not for our good keeping the covenant of works , then it is not lawfull to promise obedience to the covenant of grace , in such things as concerne church estate ; all men may easily see that here is a plaine non sequitur . this entring into covenant may keep out many good men from joyning to the churches , because they are not satisfied about it : and therefore it is better laid aside . it is not impossible , but good men may for a time be unsatisfied about it , till they understand the nature and use of it , and yet the thing be warrantable enough for all that in the sight of god ; the tribes were troubled at the altar set up upon the banks of jordan by the two tribes and an halfe , till they understood the intent and use of it , and for what purpose it was erected : and then they were satisfied . josh . 22. and the same may be said of peters eating with the gentiles , which at the first was very offensive to them of the circumcision , till they understood what peter had to say for his defence therein , and then they rested well satisfied , act. 11. but if men understand what the church-covenant is , there is no reason that good men should be troubled at it ; it being nothing else but a promise of obedience unto the gospel of christ , or of such duties as the gospel requireth of all christians in church-estate : for , will good men refuse to obey the gospel , or submit to the ordinances of christ ? or will they refuse to professe and promise so much ? if a man understand what it is , and what we meane by it , and yet refuse to enter into it when he hath opportunitie thereto , such refusing is no part of his goodnesse , but is to be reckoned amongst his corruptions ; it is ignorance at the best , and if not so , then it may be perversenesse of will , or some want of will to performe obedience to the gospel . and surely there is smal hope that such would yeeld subjection and obedience to the gospel , who do refuse to professe or promise it . but the scripture , act. 2. 41. tels of joyning to the church without any covenant . for it was not possible that 3000. should enter into covenant in one day . two things may be said in answer to this objection . first , that 3000. were not so many , but that joyning in covenant might easily be done by them all , in one day . for , 1. it was at penticost , at which time of the yeer the dayes were at the longest : and , 2. the scripture tels us , that david made a covenant with all the tribes of israel in one day , 2. sam. 5 1 , 2 , 3. the articles of the covenant betweene david and the tribes , and so betweene this 3000. and the lord might be openly declared , and they both the one and the other might by some signe or other , expresse their consent thereunto in one day . secondly , as joyning in covenant is a thing that might be done , so it is more then probable that indeed it was done , by those 3000. soules for it is said , ver . 41. that they gladly received the word , that is , they openly professed that they did with all their hearts receive it , for this receiving of the word is noted as a condition , upon which they were admitted to baptisme , and therefore it was not onely an inward receiving of it in their hearts , but also an open professing that they did receive it ; for an inward receiving of it in their hearts , without an open professing thereof outwardly , would not have been sufficient for the admitting of them unto baptisme . now this word which they received was an exhortation to repentance for sinne , and to faith in the promise , ver . 38 39. and to obedience in severing themselves from others , and saving themselves from that untoward generation , ver . 40. and therefore when they openly professed , that they gladly received this word , there was an open professing of their repentance for sinne , ver . 40. of their faith in the promise , and of obedience to the commandement , which is nothing else , but the very summe of church-covenant : yea , and further , their very preparation to this repentance , faith and obedience , in that true compunction and sorrow of soul , was also openly made manifest . ver . 37. but yet there would not be such long narrations , of every one severally as now are used , when men do enter into church-covenant , when each one makes a good long speech , in the profession of his faith and repentance . when the thing is certaine , as was shewed before , that they did openly professe repentance , faith and obedience , it is not difference in the length or largenesse of their speeches in expressing of themselves , that can make any difference in the thing : majus & minus non diversificant speciem . and we denie not but they might be briefer , because there was not such need they should be long in regard of some difference betweene them and us , their time and ours : first there were the apostles present to heare their confessions , and to judge thereof , who were men of very good discerning , and therefore briefer expressing of mens selves might suffice ; whereas the best christians , yea the best ministers amongst us are not to be compared to the apostles ; and therefore as we need more time for study , and for preparation for our sermons then they did : so likewise we need more time to heare , and try the soundnesse of mens repentance towards god , and faith towards our lord jesus christ . yet this we may adde withall , that if the apostles and those primative christians , men of such excellent discerning were sometimes deceived , and could not alwayes so discern , but that some hypocrites would creep into the church : as the example of ananias and saphira doth witnesse ; how much more need is there , that the churches of god in these dayes ( being far inferiour to them ) should be very watchfull and circumspect in trying the spirituall estates of them that offer to come into the church ? secondly , their times also differed from ours : for their christianitie was a matter of reproach and danger of excommunication , joh. 9. 22. of imprisonment , act. 4. 3. and 5. 18. and the like . and therefore to see men now to make open profession of their faith in christ jesus , whose servants and disciples were so hated , and who himselfe but a while before was crucified , this was not an ordinarie matter : and therefore in words , men might be the briefer when they came to be received into the church : but our times in new england do not persecute christ , and christians , and christian churches , but countenance them , and protect them ; and therefore there is more need now to be more studious in examination of mens estates when they offer themselves for church members : when the jews were in favour , many of the people of the land became jews , esth . 8. 17. but why is there so little proofe of this church-covenant in the new testament ? 1. suppose the new testament said nothing of it , yet it might have ground sufficient from the scriptures of the old testament ; for if it was gods revealed will in those dayes , that a companie should become a church , and particular persons become members of that church by way of covenant , we may be sure it is so now likewise , unlesse covenanting were peculiar to the jewish paedigogie ; indeed if it had never been used in those times , but were some new ordinance , peculiar to the dayes of the new testament , in such cases also a ground from the scriptures of the new testament were necessarie , as there is in all such things wherein there is any change or variation , from what was used in those times afore christ , as that there should not be nationall churches , but congregationall , and not one visible church , but many , that there should be baptisme , and the lords supper : these are matters that are not found in the old testament , nor were appointed to be used in those dayes , and therefore we must have warrant for them in the new , and so we have . but for the covenant it is otherwise , it is no new ordinance peculiar to the dayes of the gospel , nor any leviticall ordinance peculiar to the jewish pedigogie ; and therefore the scriptures of the old testament that give warrant for it , may be sufficient as hath been shewed afore . 2. and yet there is not wanting good warrant for it , that it ought to be used , in the dayes of the new testament . for , 1. the prophets do foretell it , isa . 56. 6 , 7. and 44. 5. and jer. 50. 5. ezek. 20. 37. and in sundrie other places , to omit the rest at this time , because some of them have been spoken of before ; onely let those words of isa . 44. 5. be well considered , and see if they do not plainly hold forth that in the dayes of the new testament , men should openly professe their faith , and solemnly bind themselves by covenant , to be the lords people , one shall say , i am the lords , and another shall call himself by the name of jacob , and another shall subscribe with his hand , and sirname himself by the name of israel . these words are so plaine for open professing of faith in the lord , and open binding of mens selves by covenant unto him , as we conceive nothing need be more . 2. the apostles do sufficiently testifie , that such a thing was practised in their dayes , else how should we understand that fellowship in the gospel in its full latitude and breadth , phil. 1. 5. if this combining into church-fellowship be no part thereof ; yea when it is said , they continued stedfastly , or as the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , may well be translated , they strongly did cleave together , or hold together in such a fellowship , which was not preaching and hearing the doctrine of the apostles , nor sacraments , nor prayer , but a thing distinct from all these . if this combining themselves into a spirituall fellowship and societie of church-state be no part thereof , we know not how to understand it , nor what that fellowship should meane ; if doctrine , and sacraments , and prayer had not been particularly mentioned , in the same place , it might have been thought that the fellowship in which they so steadfastly clave together had been no more , but their coming together to observe these said ordinances , and their communion therein . but when all these are particularly mentioned , and fellowship mentioned among them , as a thing distinct from the rest , we may not confound it with the rest . we might as well say , that by doctrine is meant sacraments , and by sacraments is meant prayer ; as to say that by fellowship is meant nothing else but the exercise of doctrine , and sacraments , and prayer . and if these as they are distinctly named , be distinct ordinances , and may not be confounded , then fellowship being named in the same manner imports something distinct from them all , and may not be confounded with them , nor with any of them , no more then the other may be confounded one with another . and if so , then as this fellowship may import , the communion of their gift and goods one for the helpe of another , so it must first of all imply a combining of themselves into church-state by mutuall agreement , consent , or covenant . furthermore , when the apostle writeth , that by experience of the corinthians liberall contribution to the poore saints , men glorified god for their professed subjection to the gospel of christ , 2. cor. 9. 13. he plainly imployes thereby , that the corinthians had made a profession or promise of such subjection to the gospel as did comprehend this particular of distributing to the necessitie of the saints , among other things . and their liberall distribution which he there speaks of , was looked at as one point of their reall performance of that subjection to the gospel , which they had before professed , and promised . now the church-covenant is nothing else , but the professing or promising of such subjection , and therefore this place is another proofe of church-covenant . besides , it hath been shewed afore in argument 3. that those places which speake of being added to the church , of joyning , or assaying to joyne unto the church , act. 2. 47. and 5 13. and 9 26. are not expounded according to the full meaning of them , when they are understood of any other joyning , if joyning in covenant be left out . and therefore the scriptures of the new testament do beare good witnesse unto church-covenant , though , as we said before , the scriptures of the old testament might have been sufficient if the new testament had spoken nothing of it . but baptisme makes men members of the visible church , and therefore the covenant is needlesse . this is answered in the answer to the fourth of the 32. questions , where it is shewed at large that baptisme ●● a seale of the covenant betweene god and the church , but neither makes the church , nor members of the church , nor alwayes so much as proves men to be members . this church-covenant is a late devise , and was not known in ancient time , and therefore is to be rejected . first , true antiquitie is that of the scriptures . now sith church covenant is warranted by the scripture , as hath been shewed before in this discourse , it cannot be charged to want true antiquitie . when the papists are wont to charge the doctrine of protestants with novelty , and such as was never heard of before luther , the orthodoxe are wont to answer , that if the doctrine do not agree with the scripture , then let it be condemned for noveltie ; and if it do , it is warranted by the best antiquitie , even the testimonie of god himself who is the antient of dayes : our faith , faith doctor white , is in all points the same that is contained in the scripture , and so consequently of the same antiquitie : and therefore all they that say it came up but of late , must first prove it contrary to the word of god , or else hold their peace . white , way , 44. 1. and the same we say in this particular of the church-covenant . secondly , and yet they that search the stories and writers of the times and ages next after the apostles , may find some testimonie of church-covenant in those dayes : for instance , justine martyr in his apol. 2. makes mention of three things which were required of all that were admitted into the church as members , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , that is regeneration , and soundnesse in the faith , and a promise to walke in obedience to the gospel . and generally this was the practise of all those times , that never any man was admitted to baptisme , nor his children neither , but they put him to answer three questions , abrenuntios ? whereto he answered , abrenuntio . credis ? whereto his answer was , credo : and spondes ? to which he answered , spondes . so that here was an open declaration of his repentance from dead works , and of the soundnesse of his faith , in the two first particulars , and an open binding himself by covenant or promise to walke according to the gospel , in the third . but much needs not to be said in this point , unto them that do acknowledge scripture antiquitie to be sufficient , though after times should be found to swerve from the rules and patterns that are therein contained . if church-covenant be so necessarie , then all the reformed churches are to be condemned as no churches ; for they have no such covenant . they that have knowne those churches , not onely by their writings , and confessions of their faith , in synods and otherwise ; but also by living amongst them , and being eye-witnesses of their order , do report otherwise of them , viz. that they are combined together by solemne covenant with god and one another . zepperus , speaking of the manner , used in the reformed churches , in admitting the children of church-members to the lords table , when they came to age , and have been sufficiently catechised , and instructed in the doctrine of religion ▪ tells us , that such children are admitted to the lords table , by publick profession of faith , and entring into covenant . consuetum est , saith l●e , ut qui per atatem inque doctrinâ catecheticâ profectum ad sacram coenam primum admittuntur , fidei confessionem coram totâ ecclesiâ publice edant per parentes aut qui parentum loco sunt , jussû ministri , in ecclesia conspectum producti : quòdque in illa confessione , per dei gratiam perstare , ac , juxta illam , vitam instituere , insuper etiam disciplina ecclesiasticae ultrò ac spoute suâ subjicere sese velint , spondeant atque stipulentur , polit. eccles . lib. 1. cap. 14. p. 158. that is , the manner is , that they who by reason of age and proficiencie in the doctrine of catechisme are first admitted to the lords supper , should publickly before the whole church make confession of their faith , being brought forth into the sight of the church by their parents , or them that are instead of parents , at the appointment of the minister ; and likewise should promise and covenant by the grace of god to continue in that faith which they have confessed , and to lead their lives according to it ; yea , and moreover to subject themselves freely and willingly to the discipline of the church . these words we see are full and plaine , that children are not in those churches received to the lords supper , without personall confession of faith , and entring into covenant before ; and if they tooke this course with children come to age , there is as much reason , or more , that the same course should be holden with men of yeers , when they are admitted members . and so the same zepperus , speaking of the consociation of churches amongst themselves by mutuall confederation , hath these words , which as they may be applyed to the combining of many churches , so may they be combining of many members of the same church , 〈◊〉 illa 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , quam in symbolo profite nunc apostolico , nihil aliud hic requirit , & vult , quam obligationem omnium ecclesiae membrorum & confoederationem , &c. that is , that communion of saints which we professe in the creed , doth require and meane nothing else but an obligation of all the members of the church , and a binding of them together by covenant . polit. eccles . li. 3 c. 8. p 721. to these testimonies of z●pp●r●● , those words may be added of mr. parker our own countreyman , a man of singular note for learning and holinesse , who also himselfe lived sometimes beyond sea in the reformed churches , and there ended his dayes , so that we may safely give the more credit to his testimonie , he having so good meanes fully to know the state and order of those churches . now he speaketh of a solennis forma absque quâ in ecclesiae alicujus communionem nullus ritè recipitur : of a solemne forme , without which no man is rightly received into the communion of the church , hath these words . hic mos ille est reformatarum ecclesiarum non solum in lapsis restituendis , sed in extra●eis , i●ò quibuscunque recipiendis qui ad habitandum alicubi consident , etsi fortè in ecclesiâ illius loci quo ante commo● abantur , juxta hanc formam admissi prius fuerant . examinat presbyterium , plebs consentit , quisque testes vita sua secum adfert , vel testimonia sal●em : publicatur nomen cuiusque competentis pro con●io●e , admonetur quisque siquid habeat quod excipiat , ut denunciet presbyteris . si nihil contrà adferatur , admittitur quidem , sed non nisi solerni pactione cum deo & cum ecclesiâ ▪ spondet verò ecclesiae ▪ se ambulaturum prout sanctam illam communionem decet ; disciplinae illius ecclesiae subjacere velle , se fratribus illius communionis invigilaturum juxta christi praeceptum , matth. 18. 17. ut praeveniantur sanentur que scandala , & illi ad studium bonorum operum provehantur . that is , this is the manner of the reformed churches , not onely in restoring such as have fallen , but in admitting of strangers , yea of all whoever they be , who do sit down in any place for habitation , though perhaps they have been formerly admitted after the same manner in the church where they have formerly dwelt ; the presbytery doth examine , the people do consent , every man brings with him witnesses of his life , or at least-wise testimonies : the name of each one that desires to be a member , is published in the assembly , every one is admonished if he have any exception against the party , to bring it to the presbytery . if nothing be brought against him , then indeed he is admitted ; but yet no otherwise then by a solemne covenant with god and the church ; and to the church he promiseth that he will walk as becometh that holy fellowship , that he will be subject to the discipline of that church , that he will watch over the brethren of that communion , according to the command of christ , mat. 18. 17. that offences may be prevented and healed , &c. polit. eccles lib. 3 cap. 16. § 4. pag. 171 , 172. much more he hath to the same purpose in that place , alledging sundry canons and decrees of synods of reformed churches , wherein they have determined that none should be received into their churches , but by this way of solemne covenant . and others that have lived amongst them may have been eye-witnesses that this is their usuall practise . but what shall be said of the congregations in england , if churches must be combined by covenant ? doth not this doctrine blot out all those congregations out of the catalogue of churches ? for what ever covenant may be found in the reformed churches in other parts , yet it is plaine that the english have none . though we deny not but the covenant in many of those congregations is more implicite and not so plaine as were to be desired ; ( and what is amisse in them , in their materialls , or in want of explicite combining of pure matter , or many of their wayes , wee will not take upon us to defend ) yet we hope we may say of them with master parker , polit. eccles . lib 3. cap. 16. § 1. pag. 167. non abost ea realis & substantialis ( quanquam magis quàm par●rat implicita ) coitio in foedus , eaque voluntaria professio fidei substantialis : quâ ( deo gratia ) essentiam ecclesiae idque visibilis hacusque sartam tectam in angliâ conservavit ; that is , there wants not that reall and substantiall comming together , ( or agreeing in covenant , though more implica●e then were meete ) and that substantiall profession of faith , which ( thanks be to god ) hath preserved the essence of visible churches in england unto this day . the reasons why wee are loath to say , that the congregations in england are utterly without a covenant , are these : first , because there were many christian churches in england in the apostles time , or within a while after , as master fox sheweth at large , act. & mon. lib. 2. beginning pag 137. where he reporteth out of gildas , that england received the gospel in the time of tiberius the emperour , under whom christ suffered , and that joseph of arimathea was sent of philip the apostie from france to england about the yeare of christ 63. and remained in england all his time , and so he with his fellowes layd the first foundation of christian faith among the britaine people , and other preachers and teachers comming afterward , confirmed the same and increased it . also the said master fox reporteth out of tertullian , that the gospel was dispearsed abroad by the sound of the apostles into many nations , and amongst the rest into britaine , yea into the wildest places of britaine , which the romans could never attaine unto : and alledgeth also out of ni●●phorus , that simon zelotes did spread the gospel to the west ocean , and brought the same into the iles of britaine : and sundry other proofes he there hath for the same point . now if the gospel and christian religion were brought into england in the apostles times , and by their means , it is like that the english churches were then constituted by way of covenant , because that was the manner of constituting churches in the apostles time , as also in the times asore christ , as hath been shewed from the scripture before in this discourse . and if christian congregations in england were in those times combined by covenant , then eternitie of gods covenant is such , that it is not the interposition of many corruptions that may arise in after times that can disanull the same , except when men wilfully breake covenant and reject the offers of the gospel through obstinacy , which we perswade our selves they are not come unto : and consequently the covenant remaines which hath preserved the essence of churches to this day ; though the mixture of manifold corruptions , have made the covenant more implicite then were meete . secondly , because there want no good records ( as may be seene in seldens history of tithes ) to prove that in former times in england it was free for men to pay their tithes and oblations where themselves pleased : now this paying of tithes was accounted as a dutie of people to their minister , or sheepe to their pastour : and therefore seeing this was by their owne voluntary agreement and consent , their joyning to the church as members thereof , & to the ministery thereof as sheepe of such a mans flock , was also by their owne voluntary agreement and consent : and this doth imply a covenant ●● was not the precincts of parishes that did limit men in those dayes , but their owne choice . thirdly , those questions and answers ministred at baptisme , spoken of before , ( viz. do●st thou renounce ? i doe renounce : doest thou beleeve ? i doe beleeve : doest thou promise ? i doe promise ) as they were used in other places , so were they also in england , and are unto this day , though not without the mixture of sundry corruptions . now this doth imply a covenant . and when the children came to age , they were not to be admitted to the lords supper , before they had made personall confession of their owne faith , and ratified the covenant which was made at their baptisme by their parents , which course indeed afterward did grow into a sacrament of confirmation , but that was an abuse of a good order . if here it be said , that the members of the parishionall assemblies are not brought in by their owne voluntary profession , but by the authority and proclamation of the prince , and therefore they have no such covenant . the answer is , that the christian prince doth but his dutie when he doth not tollerate within his dominions any open idolatry , or the open worship of false gods by baptized persons , but suppresseth the same : and likewise when he gives free libertie to the exercise of all the ordinances of true religion , according to the minde of christ , with countenance also and encouragement unto all those whose hearts are willingly bent thereunto , ezra . 1. 1. 3. & 7. 13. and therefore this practise of his cannot overthrow the freenesse of mens ioyning in church ▪ communion , because one dutie cannot oppose nor contradict another . and suppose that this course of the magistrate should seeme to be a forcing of some to come in for members who were unfit , ( in which case it were not justifiable ) yet this doth not hinder the voluntary subjection of others , who with all their hearts desired it . when the israelites departed out of aegypt , there went a mixed multitude with them , many going with them that were not israelites indeed , exod. 12. and in the dayes of mordecay and hesther , many of the people of the lands became jewes , when the jewes were in favour and respect , est . 8. 17. and so joyned to them not of their owne voluntary minde , nor of any sincere heart towards god , but meerely for the favour or ●eare of men ; yet this forced or seined joyning of some could not hinder those that were israelites indeed from being israelites , nor make the jewes to be no jewes , no church-members . and the same may be said in this case , suppose the magistrates proclamation should be a cause , or an occasion rather , of bringing some into the church , who came not of their owne voluntary minde , but for feare , or for obteining favour , yet this cannot hinder , but others might voluntarily and freely covenant to be subject to the gospel of christ : such subjection and the promise of it being the thing which themselves did heartily desire , though the magistrate should have said nothing in it . if any shall hereupon inferre , that if the parishionall assemblies be churches , then the members of them may be admitted to church priviledges in new england , before they joyne to our churches : such one may finde his answer in the answer to the tenth of the thirty-two questions ; whereunto we doe referre the reader for this point . onely adding this , that this were contrary to the judgement and practise of the reformed churches , who doe not admit a man for member without personall profession of his faith , and joyning in covenant , though he had formerly been a member of a church in another place , as was shewed before out of master parker . lastly , if any say , that if these reasons prove the english congregations to have such a covenant as proves them to be churches , then why may not rome , and the assemblies of papists goe for true churches also ? for some man may thinke that the same things may be said for them that here in answer to this eleventh objection are said for the parishes in england : such one must remember two things : first , that we doe not say simply , a covenant makes a company a true church , but ( as was said before ) a covenant to walke in such wayes of worship to god and edification of one another , as the gospel of christ requireth . for who doubts ▪ but there may be an agreement among theeves , pro. 1. a confederation among gods enemies , psal . 83. a conspiracy among the arabians , the ammonites and ashdodites , to hinder the building of hierusalem , neh. 4. 7 , 8. and yet none of these are made true churches by such kind of confederacies or agreements . and so wee may say of the assemblies of papists , especially since the counsell of trent . if there be any agreement or confederacy among them , it is not to walke in the wayes of the gospell , but in wayes contrary to the fundamentall truths of the gospel , as idolatry in worship , heresie in doctrine , and other antichristian pollutions and corruptions : and therefore if they combined in these things , such combinations will never prove them true churches . the church is the pillar and ground of truth , 1 tim. 3. 15. but the religion of papists is so farre from truth , that whosoever liveth and beleeveth according to it , without repentance , cannot be saved . witnesse their doctrine in the point of vilifying the scriptures , and in point of free-will , and of justification by works , of the popes supremacy , of the sacrifice of the masse , of worshipping of images , &c. in regard of which , and such like , the holy ghost saith , that their religion is a sea , become as the bloud of a dead man , and every soule in that sea dyeth , rev. 16. 3. and therefore agreement in such a religion will never prove them to be true churches ; nor any assemblies of arrians , antitrinitaries , anabaptists , or famelists , supposing them also to be combined by covenant among themselves . but now for the assemblies in england , the case is farre otherwise ; for the doctrine of the articles of religion which they professe , and which they promise to hold and observe ( though some things are amisse in some of those articles , and though many persons live contrary in their lives ) yet the doctrine is such that whosoever beleeveth , and liveth according to it , shall undoubtedly be saved , and many thousands have been saved therein ▪ and therefore assemblies united by covenant to observe this doctrine may be true churches , when the assemblies of papists and others may be false , although they also were combined by covenant : the reason of the difference rising from the difference that is in the doctrine and religion which they severally professe , and by covenant binde themselves to observe , the one being fundamentally corrupt , and consequently pernicious : the other in the fundamentall points orthodoxall and sound . secondly , it must be remembred also ( which was intimated before ) that if fundamentall corruptions be professed in with impenitency and obstinacy , then god may disanull the covenant on his part , and give a bill of divorce to such a people , jere. 3. 8. now experience and the scripture also doth witnesse of the jesuited and trent-papists , that they repented not of the workes of their hands , of worshipping devills , and idolls of gold , &c. neither repented they of their murthers , nor of their sorceries , nor of their fornications , nor of their thefts , rev. 9. 20 , 21. but now for the parish assemblies in england , we hope that we may safely say , they doe not sinne of obstinacy , but of ignorance , having not been convinced ( and many of them never having had means to be convinced ) of the corruptions that are amongst them , in respect of their constitution , and worship , and ministery , and so the covenant remaining among them , may prove them to be churches , when it cannot stand the papists in like stead , they being impenitent and obstinate : which we doe not speake to justifie the parishes altogether , as if there were not dangerous corruptions found in them , nay rather ( the lord be mercifull to the sinnes of his people ) wee may lament it with teares , that in respect of their members and ministery , in respect of their worship and walkings , in many of those assemblies there are found such apparent corruptions , as are justly grievous to a godly soule , that is enlightened to discerne them , and greatly displeasing to the lord , and indeed had need to be repented of betime , least otherwise the lord remove the candlesticke and unchurch them , rev. 2. 5. in a word , the corruptions remaining are just causes of repentance and humiliation : but yet in as much as the articles of religion , which they professe , containe such wholesome doctrine , that whosoever beleeveth and walketh according thereunto , in sinceritie , shall undoubtedly be saved , and in as much as the corruptions are not persisted in with obstinacy , therefore wee deny not but they have the truth of churches remaining . but this opinion of church-covenant , is holden by none but the brownists , or those of the separation , and therefore it is not to be received . this ground cannot be made good , that none but they of the separation are for church-covenant , for all the reformed churches generally , as was shewed before in answer to objection the tenth , are for it in their judgement & practise ; and shall all they be condemned for * brownists , or maintaining unlawfull separation from the church ? also master parker and doctor ames , men of our owne nation , famous for holinesse and learning , and moderation , both of them plead for church-covenant , and yet neither of them were brownists , but bare witnesse against that riged separation . for doctor ames , his judgement of church-covenant may be seene in his medulla , theol. lib. 1. cap. 32. § 14 , 15 , 17. fideles non constitunt ecclesiam particularem , quamvis simul forsan plures in eodem loco conveniant aut vivant , nisi speciali vinculo intersese conjunguntur , &c. that is , beleevers doe not make a particular church , though perhaps there be many of them that meete ▪ together , and live in the same place , unlesse they be joyned together by some speciall bond amongst themselves : for so one church would many times be dissolved into many , and many churches confounded into one . now this bond is a covenant , either expressed or implicite , whereby beleevers do binde themselves particularly to performe all such duties , both towards god and mutually to one another , as pertaine to the nature of a church , and their edification . and thereupon no man is rightly admitted into the church , but by confession of his faith , and stipulation , or promise of obedience . these words doe plainely and fully shew his judgement of church-covenant , to be the very same that is held and practised in new-england at this day . and that he was not for that severitie and regiditie of separation , may be cleared from sundry of his workes , wherein he plainly and fully beares witnesse against the same , and namely , in his fresh suite against ceremonies , pag. 207. and in his second manuduction , wherein he purposely and at large deales in this argument of separation . sure it is master canne in his booke , wherein he goes about to prove the necessitie of separation from the non-conformists principles , doth professedly and expressely oppose himselfe against doctor ames in the point of separation , which shewes how farre the good doctor was from favouring that way , when they most zealously therein doe count him to be a speciall opposite of theirs , as indeed he was . and for master parker , his judgement of church-covenant was heard before in part ; where he so much approveth the practise of the reformed churches in this point . and much more may be seene of his judgement herein , in the sixteenth chap. of the third booke of his polit. ecclesiastica . and yet in the same place , and likewise lib 1. cap. 13. 14. of the same treatise he plentifully and plainly shewes his dislike of the wayes of separation , as is also acknowledged in an admonition to the reader , prefixed before that booke , by i. r. suo , suorumque nomine . so that this assertion appeares to be untrue , wherein it is said , that none but brownists and separatists doe approve of church-covenant . as for the inference from this ground , that therefore church-covenant should not be received , because it is pleaded for and practised by the separatists . we answer , that this will not follow , unlesse it could be proved , that the separatists hold no truth ; or if they hold a truth wee must not hold it , that so it may appeare wee differ from them ; either of which , it were unreasonable to affirme . if the papists hold sundry articles of faith , as that there is a unitie of the divine essence , and trinitie of persons , that jesus christ is god and man , and that true messiah that was promised , and the onely saviour of the world , and many such like , must wee deny these things because they are holden by the papists ? this were as unreasonable as to condemne the doctrine of the resurrection , because it was maintained by the pharisees , act. 23. 8. and so we say of church-covenant , holden and practised by them of the separation ; as also many other truths are maintained by them : no reason that truth should be refused , because the separatists maintaine it . when doctor bancroft in a sermon at pauls-crosse , had avouched that the superioritie of bishops above other ministers , is by gods owne ordinance , and to make the contrary opinion odious , affirmed that aerius persisting in it , was condemned for an heretique by the generall consent of the whole church , and that martin and his companions , doe maintaine the same opinion of aerius ; what saith learned doctor reinolds hereunto , in a letter to sir francis knolls , who required him to shew his judgement herein : touching martin , saith he , if any man behave himselfe otherwise then in discretion and charitie he ought , let the blame be laid where the fault is , and defend him not ; but if by the way he utter a truth , mingled with whatsoever else , it is not reason that that which is of god should be condemned for that which is of man : no more then the doctrine of the resurrection should be reproved , because it was maintained and held by the pharisees : wherefore removing the odious name of martin from that which is sinceritie and love , is to be dealt with , &c. and the very same doe wee say to them that would make church-covenant to be odious , because it is held by those of the seperation , who are commonly called brownists : if men behave themselves otherwise then they ought , we defend them not therein , but if they hold any truth mingled with whatsoever else , wee would not have that which is of god to be condemned , for that which is of man : truth should not be refused , because of other corruptions that may be found in them that hold it . if you with them hold church-covenant , you iustifie them in all their wayes of seperation and erronious opinions . not so , for many of them hold that there are no visible christians that stand members of the parishes in england , and that it is not lawfull to hold any private religious communion with such persons ; and that the parishionall assemblies are none of them true churches , and that it is not lawfull to hear any of those ministers to preach the word , none of which are justified at all by holding church-covenant , though they do hold the same ; there is no such necessarie and inseparable connexion betweene these opinions , and that of church-covenant , that he that holds this , must needs hold the other also . but the time hath been , when your selves did not hold church-covenant , as now you do ; when you were in england you were not of this mind , and therefore no marvell if your change since your coming to new england be suspected , and offensive . if you change your judgement and practise in this manner , god knows whether you may come at last , and therefore men may well be afraid of holding with you in this point , which your selves did not hold when you lived in your native countrey . some of us when we were in england , through the mercie of god , did see the necessitie of church-covenant ; and did also preach it to the people amongst whom we ministred , though neither so soone nor so fully as were meete , for which we have cause to be humbled , and to judge our selves before the lord. but suppose we had never knowne nor practised the same before our coming into this countrey , yet if it be a truth of god , there is no reason why we should shut our eyes against the light , when god holds it forth unto us , nor that others should be offended at us for receiving the same . for by the same reason men might still continue in their sinnes , and not make any progresse in knowledge and holinesse , that so they may not seeme unconstant , which were contrary to the scripture , wherein we are commanded nor to fashion our selves according to the former lusts of our ignorance . 1. pet. 1. 14. but to be changed , rom. 12. 2. and renued , ephes . 4. 23. and put off the old man , and put on the new , ephes . 4. yea to grow in grace and holinesse , 2. pet. 3. 18. and be stronger and stronger , job 17. 9. that our good workes may be more at the last , then at the first , revel . 2. 19. sure it is , the apostle tells the corinthians and ephesians , that the time had been when they were not the same men that now they are when he wrote unto them ; and yet he doth not blame them for leaving their former opinions or practise , but commends them for it , 1. cor. 6. 11. ephes . 2. 3. &c. and it is said of apollos an eloquent man , and mighty in the scripture , that when he came to ephesus the way of god was expounded unto him more perfectly by aquila and priscilla , whereas before he was instructed in the way of the lord , knowing onely the baptisme of john : yet this was no dispraise at all to him , that now upon better information he would change his judgement to the better , nor unto them that were the means thereof : act. 18. 25 , 26. nullus pudor est ad maliura transire . the time hath been , ( and we may be humbled for it ) when we lived without god in the world , and some of us in many sinfull courses : and shall any be offended , because we are not still the same ? and when god called us from the wayes of sin and death , to the fellowship of his grace in christ ; yet some of us lived a long time in conformity to the ceremonies imposed in our native countrey , and saw not the evill of them . but when god did open our eyes , and let us see the unlawfulnesse thereof , we cannot see but it would have been a with-holding the truth in unrighteousnesse , and a great unthankfulnesse to god for light revealed to us , if we should still have continued in that course through an inordinate desire of seeming constant : and therefore it is not any just cause of offence that we have changed our judgement and practise in those things , when we once perceived the word of god to disallow them . indeed it hath been sometime objected against mr. cartwright , and others , that desired the reformation of the churches in england , in regard of discipline and church-order , that they which stood so much for reformation in discipline , did in after times adde and alter some things , beyond what they saw at first , and what themselves had formerly desited ; and that therefore being so murable , and inconstant in their apprehensions , they were not to be regarded , nor hearkened unto : to which objection mr. pa●k●r makes full answer in eccles . lib. 2. ca. 36. p. 307 ▪ where he sheweth from the scripture , and the testimonie of bishop jewel , doctor reinolds , and others , that in the reformation of religion god brings not his servants into perfection in knowledge and zeale at the first , but by degrees , so as they grow and make progresse in these things in such wise , that their good works are more at the last then at the first , as was said of the church of thyatira , even as the man that had been blind , when christ ●● stored him to his sight , could at the first but see men like tr●… walking , and afterward saw every man cleerly ; and therefore●… is no good arguing to say these men have altered and correc●… such things from what their apprehensions were at first , and therefore they are not to be regarded . now if this be no good arguing against mr. cartwright , and those that in england have been studious of reformation ( as indeed it is not ) then it is no good argument against us in this m●●ter of church-covenant , to say we now hold and practise otherwise then we have done in former time . if any shall here reply , that change from conformity to the cerem●nies to worship god more purely is warranted by the word , and therefore not blame-worthy , and that the same may be said of the case of apollos , of the corinthians , and ephesians forementioned , and of cartwright , and the rest in his times . we answer , that this is true , and thereby it appears , that it is not simply the changing a mans opinion or practise that can be counted blame-worthy , or offensive , but changing without warrant of the word ; and therefore in point of church-covenant , the iss●● must not be whether we or others have formerly known and practised it , but whether it have ground from gods word ; for if it have ( as we hope have been proved before in this discourse ) then the observing of it , can be no cause of just offence unto others , not imputation of inconstancy to our selves , though in time past we had not had so much light as to discerne the necessitie and use thereof . the good lord pardon every one that prepareth his heart to seek god , though he be not cleansed according to the purification of the sanctuary : and grant unto all his churches and servants ▪ that their love may abound yet more and more in knowledge , and in all judgement , that they may discerne the things that differ ▪ and approve the things that are excellent , and by his spirit of truth be led forward into all truth , till antichrist be utterly consumed with the breath of his mouth , and the brightnesse of his coming , and the holy city new jerusalem come down from god out of heaven , as a bride adorned for her husband the lambe , the lord jesus , to whom be all glory of affiance and service for ever . amen . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a88943-e340 to. 2. to : 3. to : 4. object . answ . to 5. & 6. to 7. to 8. to 9. to 10. to 11. obj : answ : to 12. to 13. to 14. to 15. to 16. to 17. to 18. to 19 to 20. to 21. t● 22. to 23. to 24. & 25. to 26. to 27. to 28. to 29. to 30. to 31. to 32. notes for div a88943-e10270 object . 1 answer . object . 2 answer . object . 3 answer . object . 4 answer . argu. 2. object . 1. answer . obj. 2. answ . obj. 3. answer . argu. 3. argu. 4. argu. 5. object . answer . argu. 1. argu. 2. object . answer . argu. 3. object . 1. answer . obj. 2. answ . obj. 3. answer . object . 4. answ . object . 5. answ . argu. 4. argu. 5. object . answer . argu. 6. object . 1. answer . object . 2. answ . obj. 3. answ . obj. 4. answ . obj. 5. answ . obj. 6. answ . reply . answ . obj. 7. answ . obj. 8. answ . obj. 9. answ . obj. 10. answ . obj 11. ans● . obj. 12. answ . * by brownists and separatists you are to understād those of the riged separation . reply . answ . obje . 13. answ . reply . answ . the presbyterian and independent visible churches in new-england and else-where brought to the test, and examined according to the doctrin of holy scriptures ... : more particulary directed to those in new-england, and more generally to those in old england, scotland, ireland, &c. : with a call and warning from the lord to the people of boston and new-england, to repent, &c. : and two letters to the preachers in boston, and an answer to the gross abuses, lies and slanders of increase mather and nath. morton, &c. / by george keith. keith, george, 1639?-1716. 1691 approx. 384 kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from 120 1-bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : 2007-10 (eebo-tcp phase 1). a47164 wing k191 estc r21261 12179730 ocm 12179730 55597 this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons 0 1.0 universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase 1, no. a47164) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set 55597) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, 1641-1700 ; 892:27) the presbyterian and independent visible churches in new-england and else-where brought to the test, and examined according to the doctrin of holy scriptures ... : more particulary directed to those in new-england, and more generally to those in old england, scotland, ireland, &c. : with a call and warning from the lord to the people of boston and new-england, to repent, &c. : and two letters to the preachers in boston, and an answer to the gross abuses, lies and slanders of increase mather and nath. morton, &c. / by george keith. keith, george, 1639?-1716. [8], 230 p. printed bor thomas northcott ..., london : 1691. reproduction of original in union theological seminary library, new york. created by converting tcp files to tei p5 using tcp2tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between 1473 and 1700 available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the 25,363 texts created during phase 1 of the project have been released into the public domain as of 1 january 2015. anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. 5% (or 5 pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of 100 instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level 4 of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p5, characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng mather, increase, 1639-1723. -remarkable providences illustrative of the earlier days of american colonisation. morton, nathaniel, 1613-1685. -new-englands memoriall. presbyterian church -controversial literature. society of friends -controversial literature. congregational churches -controversial literature. 2005-05 tcp assigned for keying and markup 2005-12 spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images 2006-12 ali jakobson sampled and proofread 2006-12 ali jakobson text and markup reviewed and edited 2007-02 pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion rev. 2.2 . thou hast tryed them , which say , they are apostles , and are not , and hast found them liars . rev. 3.9 . behold , i will make them of the synagogue of satan , ( which say , they are jews , and are not , but do lie ; ) behold , i will make them to come and worship before thy feet , and to know , that i have loved thee . rev. 18.4 , 5 , 6. and i heard another voice from heaven , saying , come out of her my people , that ye be not partakers of her sins , and that ye receive not of her plagues ; for her sins have reached unto heaven , and god hath remembred her iniquities . reward her , even as she rewarded you , and double unto her double , according to her works ; in the cup which she hath filled , fill to her double . the presbyterian and independent visible churches in new-england and else-where , brought to the test , and examined according to the doctrin of the holy scriptures , in their doctrin , ministry , worship , constitution , government , sacraments , and sabbath day . more particulary directed to those in new-england , and more generally to those in old-england , scotland , ireland , &c. with a call and warning from the lord to the people of boston and new-england , to repent ; &c. and two letters to the preachers in boston ; and an answer to the gross abuses , lies and slanders of increase mather and nath. morton , &c. by george keith . london : printed for thomas northcott , in george-yard in lombard-street , 1691. a friendly epistle to these people called presbyterians and independents . friends , in true love and good will i have writ the following treatise unto you , hoping it may find entertainment with some among you , to give it the reading , and seriously to consider what you read ; and my earnest exhortation and advice is unto you , that in all your reading , whether in this or any other book , ye turn your minds to that light of christ within you , wherewith he hath enlightned you , and all men , as the holy scriptures declare ; and that ye may believe in christ , the light , and life , in you , who is the wisdom and power of god , and who was in all the holy prophets and apostles , and whose spirit that was in them that gave forth the holy scriptures , both of the old and new testament ; and the same spirit only doth , and only can give to all readers of the holy scripture , a true and right understanding of them , and of all other books , that treat of doctrins and matters of religion , whether they have proceeded from a measure of the same holy spirit : and if ye believe in christ the light , the life , the wisdom and power of god in you , and joyn your minds to his inward divine illumination , he will anoynt the eyes of your understanding , with his spiritual eye-salve , and then your eyes shall be opened to see and understand what ye read ; and through your faith in him he will also open and circumcise your inward ears , and cause you still more and more to be acquainted with his living voice and words in you , all which are spirit and life ; and this will give you a spiritual savour and taste , whereby ye shall be able to try and judge of things that differ , whether men , or books , whether spirits , or doctrins , what are of god , and what are not of him ; for although the scriptures are the best outward test or touchstone , or rule whereby to try all doctrins of men , or books , yet it is the holy spirit of christ , and his light inwardly shining and enlightning the dark hearts and vnderstandings of men , that gives them ability rightly to understand the scriptures , otherwise the scriptures are as a sealed book , both to the learned and unlearned : for though the jews had the scriptures of the old testament , which prophecied of christ , and of the time and manner of his coming , and how he was to suffer death for the sins of men , and to rise again and ascend into glory , yet none of them had that understanding , but such only as were turned to his divine illumination in their hearts , and were acquainted with his holy spirit , light and life in them . and the like grave and wholsom advice i recommend unto you , which a certain ancient christian gave unto justin martyr , before his conversion to the christian faith , to wit , that he should diligently read and search the holy scriptures , which should give him more content than all heathen authors ; but withal , that he should mind the gate , the light , by which only he could enter into the true understanding and knowledge of them . the which passage the said justin relateth in his works , and john fox hath it also in his martyrology taken out of him . and though in this treatise i have affirmed and sufficiently demonstrated , that your visible churches are no true churches of christ , yet i do not say nor conclude , that none of you belong to christs true church in any true regard : but on the contrary , i have that true charity , faith and hope concerning a remnant among you , who have in the least measure true hungerings and thirstings after righteousness , and a great inward longing and panting of heart and soul after the lord jesus christ , to know him and enjoy him , more nearly than by all hear-say or report of him , and whose souls are sick of love for him , and feel your need and want of him , as the sick that need the physician , that ye do indeed , even all such of you , belong to christ , and are the real members of his body , which is his church ; for where any living desire is after christ , and where any true sense or feeling of the want and great need of him is raised in any soul , there is somewhat of the life of christ in that soul , and there is christ himself present , who hath begot it , and that soul is in some measure a living member of christ , and to such it will be glad tidings , to hear that christ is so near unto it , as really to be within it , even really and livingly present ; and where the least true measure of sincerity , tenderness , meekness , gentleness , humility , uprightness of heart and soul hath place in any , there is christ present in that soul , who hath already begun his good work in the same , and the beginning of his work is to quicken and make alive the soul unto him . and every soul that is thus quickned and made alive unto him , as it doth hold fast this beginning , and doth continue still hungering and thirsting after him , to know , and enjoy , and receive of his fulness more plentifully , doth really belong to him , and is in a state of salvation e'en so far ; and as it here abideth , it is impossible that it can perish . but yet tho such belong to christ , and to his church , it doth not follow , that the visible church , which they are outwardly , and by some outward form or practice joyned unto , is the true church of christ ; for they themselves distinguish of the church visible and invisible , and do affirm , that hypocrites are members of their visible church , but that only the true saints and children of god , belong to the invisible church . and again , tho such who have true desires , and true living breathings raised in them after the lord , may be said , as such , to belong to him , and be of his sheep , yet they are still but as scattered and driven from the true fold , and as wandering , for most part , upon the barren mountains , and the dry and desolate hills , seeking the living among the dead , until they come to be gathered into the true and living way of god , and of christ , so as to know , and be acquainted with the lord , and his inward leadings , rule and government in them , and to be able to distinguish his voice , and inward appearance in them , from that of a stranger , and to worship him in spirit and in truth , and serve him in the newness of the spirit , and in pure holy fear and love , as sons and children in his house : and this state ye are generally strangers unto , and therefore tho some of you may be allowed in true charity , to be the sheep of christ , yet ye are but scattered until ye are returned unto christ , the shepherd and bishop of your souls , and know him revealed in you , to lead , rule and guide you , and feed you with the living bread , and give you the living water to drink , which he himself is , inwardly revealed , and that ye be turned away from all false teachers and shepherds , which is the earnest breathing and cry of my soul unto god for you . g.k. heads or principles of christian doctrin . chap. i. concerning the holy scriptures . 1. the holy scriptures of the old and new testament being generally and worthily acknowledged by all christians , to be writ by divine inspiration , without any mixture of error , are a sufficient outward rule and standard , whereby to examin and try all doctrins of men . 2. they contain a full and intire declaration of all christian doctrin ; and therefore whatever doctrins or principles of christian religion men presume to teach , which they cannot prove and demonstrate from the holy scriptures , they lay no obligation upon any to believe them . 3. the scriptures are only sufficiently and savingly believed and understood by the inward illumination and revelation of the holy spirit , which is the same in kind to that which god gave to the saints of old. 4. although they contain a full and sufficient declaration of all christian doctrin , yet they do not contain the whole mind , will and counsel of god , as some say they do . because there are many things , wherein god doth reveal of his counsel to his children , which are not in scripture either expresly , or consequentially , altogether necessary to their peace and comfort ; as to instance in some particulars : first , it is a part of the counsel of god , for a christian to know his inward calling , and whether he be indeed one of god's called and chosen ones ; whether in favour with god , and justified and sanctified ? and though the scripture doth give infallible signs and marks of such an estate , yet no scripture , nor scripture-consequence can infallibly assure any man that he hath these marks ; but it is the spirit of god that only can and doth give them this assurance , rom. 8.16 . 2 dly , all true preachers and ministers of christ ought to know the mind and will of god , whether they be called of god to the work of the ministry , which call is an inward call , that is altogether necessary to their faithful discharge of so great a work ; but this they cannot know simply by the scripture . 3 dly , every true christian should know his inward call , to pray , or give thanks , or perform any religious duty or service unto god , as david said , when thou said'st , seek my face ; my heart answered , thy face , o lord i will seek ; hide not thy face from me , psal . 27.8 . again , 4 thly , it is commonly granted , that it is a duty belonging to every christian , to enquire the mind and counsel of god in every weighty matter and concern of our life ; as if we be visited with any great affliction inward or outward , to enquire with job , shew me , o lord , why thou contendest with me . and as rebecca , when the twins strugled in her womb , enquired at the lord , and said , why am i thus ? and the lord answered her . also in the case of marriage , every true christian man and woman , ought to enquire and wait for god's counsel , with whom to be joyned in marriage , that they may know indeed the lord's joyning of them , and that they marry in the lord : but this cannot be known by any scripture , or consequence from scripture , but the spirit of the lord must reveal it , even the same that led abraham's servant to take a wise to his son isaac . and every christian should know the will and counsel of god in his outward vocation , that it is of god , and so abide therein , as the scripture saith , let every man abide in the calling wherein he is called of god. and as the servants of god in days past , in traveling and sojourning from place to place , received the counsel of god , so do these now that wait for it in uprightness of heart , as really as holy men did of old ; and as philip received the word of god , which he could not find in the scripture , either expresly or consequentially , when the spirit said unto him , joyn thy self to this chariot , when he was sent to preach christ to the eunuch ; and as peter was sent to cornelius , and ananias to saul , and many other the like instances ; and as james declareth , men ought not to be rash or hasty to say , to day , or to morrow we will go into such a city , &c. for that ye ought to say , if the lord will , james 4.13 , 15. now how can a man know what the lord willeth in such a case , unless it be given him by the spirit of the lord inwardly , to feel either a command or permission to do such a thing ? for whereas too many make the outward passages of providence their rule , as to say , if sickness , or some outward impediment hinder not ; they constitute that to be the will of god : and whereas many remove from one place to another , and divine providence doth not hinder them , and yet in that removal they have not had god's approbation , and it hath not had a blessing to follow it , but on the contrary ; for leaving their place , they have been exposed to sad temptations , and have fallen under them . and lastly , there are many precious living soliloquies and intercourses betwixt the lord and the souls of his dear children , while he answers the returns of their prayers in living testimonies , and words of his holy spirit ; which though they are agreeable to scripture , yet are not express scripture words , but are the real words and dictates of the holy ghost , speaking peace and consolation to them , beyond all utterance or demonstration of speech , and wonderfully quickning and strengthning them in the inward man , as we find in the psalms , and in the song of solomon , and other places of holy scripture ; for by the living word of god , as they come freshly and newly , or immediately from the mouth or spirit of god , the souls of god's children are quickned and kept alive , as christ said , the words that he did speak unto his disciples were spirit and life ; and man liveth not by bread alone , but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of god. and david waited for the coming of the word of god to quicken him , to wit , that god might speak unto him ; and he said , i will hear what the lord will speak , for he will speak peace to his saints , and to his people . so here is god's promise to all his saints and people to speak peace unto them ; and as he promised to his israel in hosea , chap. 14. i will allure or perswade her , and bring her into the wilderness , or a solitary place , and there i will speak comfortably unto her , or ( as the hebrew hath it ) i will speak to her heart . and this is an inward speech : and the scripture promises , when god is pleased by his spirit to apply them to the souls of his children , is as real and proper an inward voice and speaking of god unto them , as he spoke to the prophets of old . 5. and therefore the scripture doth not contain either all the word , or words of god , as some say , but many thousands of words of god have been livingly spoke and utter'd by the spirit of god , to the inward ears of his dear children , since the writing of the scripture , and daily are and will be to the end of the world. and as it was said in the apostles days , the word of the lord grew and multiplied , acts 12.24 and 19 , 20. so ever since the apostles and writing of the scriptures , the word of god hath grown and multiplied , and still shall and must to the end of the world ; and yet no new doctrin or gospel to be preached , but the same which the prophets , and christ and the apostles have already preached . 6. and as christ and the apostles expounded the scriptures of the old testament by divine inspiration and revelation of the same spirit ; without propounding any new doctrin or object of faith unto people ; so why may it not be so now ? yea , it is so , that some at this day by the same spirit , do expound and open places of scripture both of the old and new testament , and yet bring no new doctrin : and it is a far better way to have such preachers and expounders , who open and expound the scriptures by the inspiration and revelation of the holy spirit , as the apostles did , than for men to presume to open and expound them without all new revelation or inspiration , and who plainly confess , they neither preach nor write by any infallible spirit . and such mens exposition , who declare they have no infallible spirit , can neither be the word or words of god , which are infallible , but only the fallible word and words of man , and human imaginations . 7. and as for the term [ word ] the greek of it being 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 i find it variously used and translated in the new testament , as first , to signifie christ , joh. 1.1 . 2dly , to signifie treatise , acts 1.1 . 3dly , communication , mat. 3.7 . 4thly , vtterance , 1 cor. 1.5 . & 2 cor. 8.7 . & ephes . 6.19 . & col. 4.3 . 5thly , word of talk or discourse , 1 thes . 1.5 . 6thly , reason , 2 pet. 3.15 . & acts 18.14 . 7thly , preaching or doctrin , 1 cor. 1.18 . 8thly , account or business , as to have to do , heb. 4.13 . and 9thly , the hebrew word in the old testament is translated , order , psal . 110.4 . 10thly , matter , psal . 45.1 . 11thly , speech , psal . 19.2 . and 12thly , the same greek word is used by paul to signifie , the empty and dead preaching of false teachers , 1 cor. 4.19 . and therefore whether the scriptures may be called or are called the word in scripture , rarely or improperly , is not the proper state of the question ; for it cannot be denyed , and is not denyed , but that rarely and improperly , the word is used to signifie scripture or scripture words , either written or spoken ; and sometimes the words of evil men are rendred by the same greek word in scripture , as ephes . 4.29 . and 2 tim. 2. ●7 . but the true state of the question is , wheth●r first , the scripture doth contain all the word or words of god ? and this i justly deny , for the reasons already given ; and indeed as the word and words of god are compared in scripture ( deut. 32.2 . ) to the dew and rain that falleth upon the dry ground to refresh it , and make it fruitful ) and the drops of the dew and rain are so many that they cannot be numbred ) which god hath been pleased to speak to the souls of his people , and still doth , so nor can the words of god be numbred by men ; and therefore they are of a greater extent than all these set down in scripture , which may be numbred ; and also they are compared in scripture to bread that is eaten , as jeremiah said , cap. 15.16 . thy words were found , and i did eat them ; and as none can number the small grains of flower that make up a cake of loaf of bread , so none can number the words of god. secondly , whether the scriptures only , as they are outwardly written , or spoken by the mouths of natural men , or heard by the outward ears , or conceived only by the bare natural thoughts and understanding , be properly , and without all figure , the word or words of god ? i say , nay ; for the words of god are spiritual , and of an inward nature , as god himself is ; for the words of god are first , and properly , spoke to the mind and spirit of man , and the outward words , whether spoke or writ , are but the signs of them , as all outward words are but the signs of the inward thoughts of the mind , which are the words of the mind or heart of man within it self . thirdly , vvhether he who only talketh scripture words , and hath not the true sense of them , doth truly and properly speak the vvord of god ? and whether he that only heareth them from man , and hath not received the true sense of them , hath properly heard the vvord of god ? i say , nay ; for it is not the bare letter , without the sense , that is the word of god properly understood . nevertheless , the letter of the scripture in a figurative sense may be called the vvord , as the map of england is called england , moses his books are called moses , and isaiah his book is called his vision , and john his book is called his revelation . chap. ii. concerning new divine revelations and inspirations . 1. the places of scripture , which they commonly bring against all new divine revelations and inspirations of the spirit of god , prove no such thing , as will easily appear to any that are impartial and unbyassed in their understanding , if they will but read and consider them , which places are these following , as they are alledged and quoted by them called the assembly of divines at vvestminster , in their confession of faith , cap. 1. sect . 1. prov. 22.19 , 20 , 21. isa . 8.9 , 10. which places , if they prove now , that all new revelation is ceased , they do as much prove , that it ceased in the days of christ and the apostles , yea , in the days of the prophets that did succed them . is it not admirable blindness that these men did not see how impertinent these citations are ? and as for all the places of the new testament cited by them , as luke 3.4 . rom. 15.4 . mat. 4.4 , 7 , 10. 2 tim. 3.15 . heb. 1.1 , 2. 2 pet. 1.19 . they do no more prove what these intend than the former ; for by their own confession , divine revelation and inspiration continued after all these places of scripture were writ , for divers intire books of scripture were writ after them here alledged : and if they say , that all new revelation did cease , as soon as all these books of scripture were in being , then they must also affirm , that all new revelation did cease to divers of the apostles , long before they deceased , because divers of them , and particularly john survived after he wrote his book of the revelation . 2. it is most readily granted , that god in his infinite wisdom and goodness was pleased , that there should be oracles and testimonies of his truth and gospel committed to writing , according to which the doctrins and words of men , however so holy , that should come in after ages , should be tryed and examined ; for the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets ; but this doth not prove in any wise , all ceasing of prophecy , or divine revelation , or inspiration by the same spirit . the apostles doctrin and preaching was tried by the noble bereans , whether it was according to the scriptures of the old testament ; but it doth not therefore follow , that the apostle paul did not preach by divine revelation and inspiration . and both christ and the apostles proved their doctrin generally out of the scriptures of the prophets ; but that doth not argue that they did not preach by new divine revelation . 3. but for the further clearing of the matter , we are to distinguish betwixt new revelation of new doctrin , and new revelation of ancient doctrin . the apostles had a new revelation , yet not of any new doctrin , but the very same that christ and the prophets preached before them , and all agreed in the same doctrin for substance , and yet had their own peculiar visions and revelations , which were new to them , to wit , new , though not in kind or specie , yet in particular or individual unto them . and so it is , as to us , we plead not for any new revelation of any new doctrin , faith or gospel , differing from what christ , and the prophets , and apostles have taught before us , and is largely and fully declared in the holy scriptures ; but for a new revelation of the same doctrin , faith and gospel which was revealed unto them : for as the faith of the prophets and apostles is not enough to us , but we must also have the like precious faith with them , 1 john 1.2 . and we must see with our spiritual eyes , and hear with our spiritual ears , and handle with our spiritual handling the word of life , as they did , so it must be newly revealed to us , and in us . 4. and if all new divine revelation and inspiration be ceased , then all spiritual seeing and hearing is ceased , and neither god nor christ is , or hath been heard or seen spiritually , as the saints did see and hear formerly , nay , not in the least degree , and all inward spiritual sensation and feeling is gone , and all use or exercise of spiritual series , which is sad tidings to poor souls . but if any grant that there is any true and real spiritual hearing , seeing , tasting , and other spiritual sensations of god , and divine things , they must also grant true divine revalation the same in kind and nature with what the saints had of old ; for what is the proper object of the inward hearing , and seeing , and tasting , and feeling ; is it not god and christ ? as david invited others saying , o taste and see that god is good . and as the spouse said in the song , i sate down under his shadow with great delight , and his fruit was sweet unto my taste ; his , left-hand is under my head , and his right hand doth embrace me ; he hath brought me to his banqueting house , &c. and again , the king hath brought me into his wine-cellar . and can these sweet and heavenly experiences be witnessed without divine revelation , or inspiration ? and whereas some say , it is revelation by the word and spirit going along together , but not by the spirit alone without the word . i answer , granting it to be so in a true sense ; for the prophets and apostles had both the word and the spirit going along together in their divine revelations , according to isa . 50.21 . and that did not hinder them to be real and proper in their kind . but that god hath limited and confined himself so , as never to give any inward enjoynment of himself to the souls of his dear children , by any inward sense , sight or hearing , but what is conveyed unto them always by means of scripture words , is a most extravagant presumption to affirm , without all scripture proof ; for besides that , the soul may hear god speaking other words to it inwardly , than express scripture words , though not contrary or disagreeing ; it oft falls out , that the inward and spiritual seeing , tasting and feeling may be enjoyed and witnessed , without all words composed of letters or syllables , even in a deep inward stillness and quietness , according to these words , be still , and know that i am god. and as the outward seeing , tasting , smelling and feeling may be used without the present use of the outward hearing , so may the inward and spiritual seeing , tasting , smelling and feeling be used at times and seasons , without the inward and spiritual hearing of any words formally composed of letters and syllables , or scripture words , or so much as inwardly thought or conceived , which men of spiritual experience , who have their spiritual senses cannot but readily grant . we find by common experience , that words fall short to give us a sufficient and satisfactory knowledge of outward and natural things ; and therefore we desire rather to see , taste and handle them , than to hear the best or most true report of them . we love rather to see a pleasant country , than to hear of it only ; and every good child loveth to see his parents , rather than to hear a report , or talk of them ; so every loving wife loveth rather to see her husband , and hear himself , and be imbraced by him , than to hear others tell of him : and the loving subject is more glad to see his prince , or king , of whom he hath received so many favours , and to hear himself , than to hear others tell of him ; and thus it is with every soul , that truly loveth god , they much rather desire to hear himself , and see him , than to hear others tell of him , as one well said , it is little to see christ in a book , but to see him , and hear him , and feel his most lovely embraces , as his children have witnessed , that is very precious . it is not the report , or discourse of bread , however so true and large , that can satisfie an hungry man , or the report of good drink that can satisfie a thirsty man ; but to taste and eat of bread , that only satisfieth him that is hungry , and to taste and drink of water , beer , wine , or any other refreshing liquor , only satisfieth the thirsty man : and so to eat of christ , and feed upon him who is the soul 's proper food and nourishment , doth , and only can satisfie and content the hungry soul , as christ said , john 6.57 . he that eateth me , shall live by me . and christ is not only the soul's meat , but its drink also ; and therefore david said , as the hart panteth after the water-brook , so panteth my soul after thee , o god ; my soul thirsteth for god , for the living god , psal . 42.1 , 2. and surely , this so near and inward enjoyment of god and christ cannot be without an inward and intimate , or immediate revelation of him . and if words fall short to give to men a sufficient and satisfactory knowledg of natural and outward things , how much more then to give a sufficient and satisfactory knowledg of god and chirst , and divine things , as his love , his life , his peace , and that inward comfort and consolation that is in his presence ? for the scripture saith , 1 cor. 2.9 , 10. ear hath not heard , nor eye hath not seen , nor hath the heart of man conceived the good things that god hath prepared for them that love him , and wait for him : where we see all words fall short to discover these things ; but god hath revealed them to us ( said paul ) by his spirit . and this god did promise as a general priviledg to all his people , of all nations , even to bring them to his holy mountain , and to destroy the face of the covering spread over them , and make unto them a feast of fat things , full of marrow , and of wines upon the lees well refined : and what is this but the enjoyment of himself , seen and tasted by them ? and do not all true believers eat the same spiritual bread , and drink the same spiritual drink , the rock that followed israel of old ? which rock was christ ? and surely this is beyond all words or declaration , and according to this the joy of god's people is called a joy unspeakable , even such as words cannot express ; and the peace of god is said to pass vnderstanding , and the love of christ , that it passeth knowledg , because no words , either spoken or conceived by men , can give the knowledg of these so great and divine and profound mysteries , but only the spirit of god , that searcheth the deep things of god , can discover them . again , we find by common experience , that all outward teaching of men , presuppose certain principles of knowledg of natural things , which they profess to teach , which principles are partly known ( without men's teaching ) by the outward sense of them , and partly by inward notions of knowledg , innate in the minds of men ; and therefore it were altogether in vain , for a master of architecture or navigation , to teach a man these arts , who is altogether blind , and senseless , and stupid , and hath not any inward clearness of his natural judgment ; and even so it is , as to spiritural and divine things , all outward teaching of them doth pre-suppose some principles of knowledg of these very things , and some inward divine and spiritual sense of them , or at least some inward ground and capacity , whereby that divine sense may be excited in them . and therefore when paul preached to the athenians , that professed themselves ignorant of god , he preached him , acts 17.16 , 27 , 28. near unto them , yea , so near , as the stock or root of a tree is unto the bud or off-spring that groweth upon it ; and this he proved from some of their own poets , who said of men , that they are god's off-spring ; and he told them plainly the way to seek him , and find him , was by feeling him ; so that he joyneth these three together , to wit , seeking , feeling and finding ; for as a man in a dark room , or having his eyes shut , being perswaded that the thing he desireth to have , is at hand , or near to him , doth grope , and feel after it , and by feeling , doth within a little time find it ; even thus did paul teach these ignorant athenians how they might find god , and how all men , however so ignorant , have a time or opportunity given them to find him , god having determined the times before-appointed , and bounds of habitation , wherein they may find him : and so from this inward ground , or principle of knowledg in these athenians , which they had before paul preached unto them , as a wise master-builder or teacher , he proceedeth to preach christ , and the resurrection , and eternal judgment unto them , as a good master or teacher of natural science beginneth with the first principles of knowledg , not to teach them , but presupposing them , and only calling the minds of the scholars to remember , or take notice of them , and then from these principles he proceedeth to teach them the mysteries of the science . 5. but whereas many who deny all new revelations of the spirit , yet grant the necessity of the inward illumination of the spirit of god , to give the saving knowledg and vnderstanding of god and divine things , as these who gave forth the westminster confession of faith , being an assembly made up of presbyterian and independent teachers , met at vvestminster about forty years ago ; see cap. 1. sect. ● . surely , if these men had been rightly acquainted with the inward illumination of the spirit of god , they would never have writ or given forth such non-sense and contradiction in the face of the world , as to grant the necessity of inward illumination , and at the same time , yea , in the same section or paragraph , and within a line or two , to deny all new revelation ; for indeed inward illumination is revelation , and inward revelation is illumination , the thing is one , though the names be distinct , as oft the same thing is expressed by variety of names ; and the places of scripture they bring to prove , the necessity of the inward illumination of the spirit , do prove the inward revelation of the spirit , both which are one , as john 6.45 . and 1 cor. 2.9 , 10 , 11 , 12. it is written in the prophets , they shall all be taught of god ; every man therefore that hath heard and learned of the father , cometh unto me . and that other place in 1 corinth . 2.9 , 10 , 11 , 12. as it is written , eye hath not seen , nor ear heard , neither have entred into the heart of man , the things which god hath prepared for them that love him : but god hath revealed them to us by his spirit ; for the spirit searcheth all things , even the deep things of god. for what man knoweth the things of a man , save the spirit of a man which is in him ? even so the things of god knoweth no man , but the spirit of god. now we have received not the spirit of the vvorld , but the spirit which is of god , whereby we know the things that are freely given us of god. there cannot be brought out of the whole scripture more suitable places , to prove the necessity of divine revelation than these are , the one plainly implying it , the other plainly expressing it . for to be taught of god , to hear and learn of the father , as the prophets and apostles did , what is it , but to be taught by divine inward revelation ? or if they will say nay , then the prophets and apostles were not taught of god , by the same argument . and whereas they bring paul's words , saying , god hath revealed them to us , to wit , these deep things of god , to prove the inward illumination of the spirit of god to all saints , as well as to paul ; the same proveth divine revelation , as it is expresly so called by paul in this very place ; for they must needs grant , that the divine illumination which paul had , was revelation , properly so called , and what he had he holdeth it forth , as common in kind to all saints and believers . and as for the word revelation , as signifying an inward operation of the holy spirit in the heart and understanding , we find it to be a phrase more frequently used in scripture , than the word illumination , or illuminated , or enlightned , or to enlighten ; yea , i find the word illuminated out once used in all the english translation of the whole bible , but revelation frequently is used in our english translation , and reveal , revealed ; see isa . 40.5 . and 53.1 . and 56.1 . jer. 33.6 . mat. 11.27 , 25. luke 10.21 , 22. rom. 8.18 . 1 cor. 2 10. gal. 1.16.3.23 . phil. 3.15 . ephes . 1.17 . beside many other places . so that it is very strange , why these faith-makers at westminster should have such a grudge and prejudice at all new revelation , a word so frequently used in scripture , and yet pretend so great kindness to new inward illumination , which is the same ; for it passeth their skill , or any man 's else , to divide or separate the one from the other . 6. but the great knack , nicety or mystery of this distinction lieth in this , that inward illumination is only revelation , subjective or effective ; and in that sense , some of that sort of men , say , they own the necessity of inward revelation , and hold it to be all one with illumination . but they deny all inward objective illumination , or revelation , that is to say , any inward revelation of any inward object , inwardly proposed to the eye or ear , or other inward spiritual sense and faculty of the soul , the alone object of the souls whole kowledge , faith , fruition , enjoyment of god , and communion with him , being the scriptures , or god , christ and divine things not in themselves seen , or enjoyed , but as they are to be seen and known , or revealed in the words of scripture : hence they who use this distinction , say , the inward light , or illumination of the spirit , being only effective , or subjective , but not objective , i● medium incognitum assentiendi , or principium incognitum cognoscendi , that is to say , an unknown principle , or mean of knowing and assenting , which may be illustrated by this similitude , that there is an inward vigour of life , and natural spirits , that are necessary to enable the outward eye to see outward things and objects ; but that inward vigor of natural life and spirits , is not the object of the eye , nor seen by it ; or otherwise some may , or do understand by subjective inward revelation , or revelation on the part of the subject , the soul 's inward knowledge , or perception , as in the outward sight of things of this world there is the vision of the eye , or its sight and perception , and the object seen , and perceived by the eye : also , in hearing , there is the hearing , or perception of the ear , and the thing heard , be it voice , or sound of man , beast or bird , or musical instrument . and thus , according unto these mens doctrin , the alone adequate formal object of all faith , knowledge , fruition , enjoyment , sight and sense of the souls of the most excellent saints , either now living , or that have lived in all ages past since the apostles lived , is the scripture-words . but this is all meerly begged , and taken for granted , without all proof , and altogether contradictory to the experience of all the true saints of god , who have an inward sight , knowledge and enjoyment of god , far surpassing all words or writings ; and thus , according to these mens doctrin , all the knowledge or sight that the saints have of god in this life , is but as one that seeth england in a map : but never saw the land it self ; or as an hungry man , heareth and readeth good words of meat , but neither seeth , nor tasteth it ; and as a woman heareth of a husband she is married unto , or seeth his picture on a table , or on paper , or readeth a book that describeth his beauty and personage , but is never admitted to see him , or hear himself , nor to touch , handle or embrace him ; all which are sad tydings to souls that love god and christ ; but the best is , they are utterly false , and the experience of the saints abundantly prove them to be false ; and such dark ignorant blind doctrin , proveth sufficiently what dark ignorant blind men these have been , or are , who have published their own shame and folly to the face of the world , and as blind and ignorant are these teachers , who have since received and published the same blind doctrin . but if the inward light , or illumination be altogether an unknown principle to him that hath it , having no evidence , or light , or demonstration of its own , whereby to discover it , how shall any man be sure , or know surely that he hath any inward divine light or illumination ; for no scripture can tell him that he hath it , or that he hath the works of one that is divinely illuminated . one would think the bear naming , or mentioning such doctrin , is enough to refute it , as to say , god and christ is , and can only be known by words , or report and hear-say , whereas the scripture saith , ear hath not heard , nor eye seen , what these things are , which god hath prepared for his children : and yet all scripture words the ear doth hear , and the eye doth see , 7. but to come to the conclusion of the matter , it is to be noticed , or considred that there is a doctrinal and sensible knowledge of god , or discursive and intuitive ; as for the doctrinal and discursive knowledge of god , it is granted , that it cannot be without words , either of scripture , or some other words given by the same spirit ; and also it is granted , that scripture words , in god's ordinary way , are necessary to give to men the said doctrinal knowledge of god and christ , and many deep and mysterious things of the christian faith and religion ; but this doth not prove the ceasing of new divine revelation , but rather indeed establisheth it ; for the prophets and apostles , who had divine revelation , were profited , taught and edified by their fellow-prophets and apostles ; and especially the latter prophets , were much helped by the words and writings of the fore-going prophets , as daniel confessed , he understood by books , to wit , by jeremiah his prophecy , the number of the years of the captivity , dan. 9.2 . and christ opened the understanding of the apostles , to understand the scriptures of the old testament , what they did declare of him ; and paul freely confesseth , that the scriptures of the prophets were writ for his learning , as well as of other men , and yet he had great plenty of divine revelation , beyond what many of them had ; and david said , he had more knowledge than his teachers , and yet no doubt profited by them , and especially by the prophet samuel , and others that lived with him , and before him . next , as to the sensible and intuitive knowledge of god , it can be , and oft is without all words , either outwardly heard , or inwardly conceived , i mean words consisting of letters or syllables , such as are not the things , but signs of things , even as we have a sensible and intuitive knowledge of a land , by seeing it , and eating the fruit of it , and drinking the good wine or milk of it , tho' we are not hearing or reading of it , nor thinking of any words that ever we read or heard of it . and so , often the souls of god's people enjoy a sweet sight , taste , and repast of him in a deep inward quiet and stillness of mind , having no words of any sort , that can be expressed in letters or syllables , so much as in their present thoughts or remembrance ; and this is the most excellent degree of knowledge , and as far excelleth and transcendeth the other sort , as the sight taste and feeling of a thing doth the report or hear-say of it . it is also acknowledged , that oft it pleaseth god , to joyn of his life to scripture words , as promises , prophecies , or any others , as we hear , read , or meditate on them , and make them as conduits , pipes or cisterns , or as cups and flaggons , to convey the divine influences of his life , and living spirit of life , and love to our souls , but then they hinder not our revelation , to be real , and true , and proper revelation , as well objective , as subjective ; for as in drinking of outward wine in a glass , or cup , we not only see the glass or cup , that revealeth the wine , but also the wine it self , and the wine is the most desirable , and pleasant and acceptable object of both our sight and taste , and feeling , so that we regard the glass or cup little or nothing for it self , but for its use and service to us ; and if there be no wine , or other refreshing liquor in the cup , we care not to use it , it hath no taste unto us , nor service , but as the wine is in it : and thus it is with the living soul , that thirsts after the living god , and to drink of his spirit , that quickens and refresheth the soul , when it seeth or perceiveth any divine vertue or life ( as god is pleased , when , how , or by whom to joyn of the same to it ) in scripture words , either preached , read , or meditated , it is very glad , and most gladly maketh use of them , and giveth god thanks for his great mercy ; but without life be joyned unto them , it is no more wisdom , nor discretion to use them , than for a man to put an empty flaggon or cup to his mouth to drink at it . 8. but if they say , there is no sensible or intuitive knowledge of god in this life , at least since the apostles days ; as indeed it is most , yea , altogether most agreeable to their doctrin , who say , all new revelation of the spirit is ceased ; then i say unto them , they are miserable comforters , yea , miserable and sad gospellers to poor sion ; they bring not glad , but sad tydings ; they cannot say , behold , o sion , thy king cometh unto thee ; they cannot say , taste , and see that god is good ; they cannot say , the life was manifested , and we have seen it , and declare it unto you , that ye may have fellowship with us ; they cannot declare the great kindness and love that christ the soul's husband and bridegroom hath to his bride , but rather , their doctrin preacheth him to be most unkind , and unnatural , never to let his bride see him once all her life , here in this world , nor yet once to hear himself , or taste , or touch , or handle him , or be embraced by him . they preach altogether an absent christ , as some of them say , christ is not really and properly in his people , or if present , a christ altogether either dumb or silent , that being so near to the soul , as to be in it , never speaketh one word in it , and always hideth his face , and never giveth to the soul one glance or shine of his countenance . but if they be ashamed of this doctrin , which yet is the very purport of it , who deny all inward nèw revelation , and new visitations of the lord's love unto the souls of his people , then let them be ashamed to preach , teach , or write , that there is no new revelation of god and christ , nor no immediate or inward teaching , no inward and immediate calling , or sending to the ministry ; and let them be ashamed to own themselves to be the successors of the ancient protestants , who did acknowledge immediate teaching , and calling unto the ministry , and the spirit of prophecy ; and some of them had it , as george wishard , and others , whose prophecies fox in his book of martyrs hath recorded . 9. and whereas these faith-publishers at westminster , one while deny all new revelation , another while seem only to deny extraordinary revelation , as they term it , cap. 18. section 3. is another piece of non-sense , or contradiction ; for if all new revelation be ceased , as they expresly affirm , cap. 1. sect . 1. and 6. then there is neither ordinary nor extraordinary revelation remaining , according unto their doctrin . but the distinction of ordinary and extraordinary revelation , may in a true sense , be well admitted by them who believe , that divine inward revelation is not ceased ; for among the prophets , numb . 12.6 , 7 , 8. moses's revelation far exceeded the revelation of the other prophets , as is clear from scripture , and in that respect was extraordinary : and we now plead for new divine revelation , we mean not extraordinary , beyond what god was pleased to give to his saints and children , in an ordinary and usual way , from the beginning of the world , more or less , nor do we compare our revelations with either the prophets or apostles , by way of equality , either in degree , or in all the various manners and ways which they had then : but we say , in that one way and manner , which was by god's inward appearance , and speaking in their hearts , in the divine seed and birth , we do plead for divine revelation , as the ordinary and common allowance and priviledge of all god's saints and people , and not only to saints , but to men and women , in order to their becoming saints , they need god and christ inwardly to speak unto them ; for it is the inward voice and speaking of christ , that quickneth the dead souls of men , according to the words of christ , the dead shall hear the voice of the son of god , and they that hear shall live , john 5.25 . chap. iii. of the supream judge and rule of controversies , of religion . it hath been already acknowledged in the first chapter , that the holy scriptures are a sufficient outward rule and standard , whereby to try all doctrins of men , however so holy or wise they may be , or however much indued with the holy spirit , because the spirit of the prophets is subject to the prophets ; and as the holy spirit of truth is one , so the words of it do all agree , in all the true prophets , apostles , evangelists , pastors and teachers ; and as is already said , the noble bereans were commended in scripture , for searching the scriptures to see and examin , whether the apostles doctrin was according to the doctrin of the ancient prophets that wrote the old testament ; and until the apostles doctrin was generally received , they did appeal to the scriptures of the old testament , for a proof of their doctrin , although that was not their only proof ; for they had a greater proof than that outward was , even the inward witnéss and testimony of the holy ghost , that made both them , and their doctrin manifest in the hearts and consciences of their hearers , whose hearts god was pleased to open . 2. and therefore in respect of any outward rule and standard , the scripture is sufficient , and to be preferred in all respects to any other latter writings , or testimonies , or records whatsoever ; first , because writ from a greater measure and depth of divine wisdom ; for though the spirit be one , yet it hath diversity of gifts and operations , and administrations ; and all men divinely inspired , had not the same clearness of divine knowledge , numb . 12.6 , 7 , 8. moses exceeded the prophets generally , david and solomon exceeded many of them ; and isaiah and jeremiah exceeded others of them ; and among the prophets some were as fathers , some as sons ; hence we read in scripture , that god is the father of lights , and of these lights , as to us , some are higher , and some lower , which some mystick writers , both among jews and christians , have taken notice of , out of the scripture it self ; hence they say , moses drank at the fountain , samuel , david , solomon , and some others , drank at the streams ; and others of an inferior degree , at the pond or cistern : and they further say , moses had his revelations from binah , abraham from gedulah , a step lower ; isaac from geburah , yet lower ; jacob from tipheret , yet lower , but partaking of both , signified by his dwelling in tents , betwixt the tents of abraham and isaac ; david sometimes from tipheret , and sometimes from nezah and hod ; hence we read some of the inscriptions of his psalms to nezah ; and sometimes from mulcuth ; and they say that the ordinary prophets had their revelations from these two divine measures , nezah and hod , called exod. 38.8 . the looking-glasses of the lords hosts that assemble at the door of the tabernacle , ( see the heb. text ) but moses had liberty to go into the heavenly tabernacle it self , and so had some others . and that god did make himself more known to moses , than to abraham , isaac , and jacob , is clear from these words of his to moses at the bush , i appeared to abraham , isaac and jacob by the name of god almighty , but by my name jehovah , was i not known to them , exod. 6.3 . and concerning this distinction of divine gifts and illuminations , paul declareth , saying , to one is given the word of wisdom , to another the word of knowledge , to another faith , all by the same spirit . hence we read in the proverbs , wisdom , understandang and knowledge distinguished , wisdom buildeth the house , vnderstanding establisheth it , and knowledge filleth the chambers with all precious and pleasant riches , prov. 24.3 , 4. therefore wisdom is a degree above understanding , and understanding a degree above knowledge , all which divine measures are set in order , as the parts of a tree , with root , branches and tops , or as the members of a mans body , by way of allegory and analogy , cochmah , binah and daath , belonging to the head , gedulah , geburah to the right and left hand and arm , tipheret to the body , nesah , hod and jesod to the thighs and legs , &c. and mulcuth lowest of all ; all which make up , by way only of allegory and analogy the parts and members of the son of man , or heavenly adam , as both ezekiel and john saw him upon his throne . the english names of these hebrew words , all which are found in scripture , in their true order , are these following , cochmah , i e. wisdom , binah , i. e. understanding or prudence , daath , i. e. knowledge , ( see 1 chron. 29.11 ) gedulah , i. e. magnificence , geburah , i. e. power , tipheret , i. e. beauty , nesah and hod , i. e. victory and glory , jesod , i. e. foundation , and mulcuth , i. e. the kingdom . and secondly and most especially , we give the preheminence to the scriptures beyond all latter writers , because we are well assured that the scriptures throughout are pure , without all mixture of error or mistake ; and this is generally granted by all christians , that the scriptures are really so , being duly and rightly translated , but we are not assured that any mans or mens writings since , are altogether pure and free of all mixture of error and human weakness , until they be duly examined and found to agree to the holy scriptures , and to the inward testimony of the holy spirit ; for altho' whatever the spirit of god inwardly revealeth , is infallible and pure from all mixture of error , and whatever any man saith or writeth , as he hath receiv'd it from that , his testimony is pure , and without mixture ; yet we are not assured that any man or men are in that state of perfection , that they may not by human frality , in some measure or way , more or less , decline or depart from the pure and infallible teachings of the spirit of god ; for as it is possible they may purely and chastely keep unto them , so for want of due watchfulness and holy care , they may more or less depart from them , and so there may be a mixture of truth and error , both in their understandings and words ; and therefore they are not to be taken on trust , but both their doctrin in all things is to be tryed by the scripture , and their spirit by the spirit of truth , as every one is able , according to what he hath received . all which doth not hinder but that the spirit of god in our day both teacheth and leadeth infallibly , although the disciples and professed followers of it at times , by weakness , may be liable to mistakes . 3. and as concerning that phrase or expression that some use , that the spirit of god speaking in the scriptures , is the supream judge of all controversies of religion , although it is no scripture phrase , nor proper , but figurative , as when a man is said to speak in his books or writings ; yet in a figurative sense it might be allowed , if they did not confine all the speaking of the spirit of god to his only and alone speaking in the scriptures , so as that the spirit speaketh not at all , as they would have it , in the souls and hearts of men , as he used to do in the prophets and apostles . and because they have a wrong sense of it , and that it is not proper , but figurative , it is better not to use it . and in the room of it , i say , the spirit of god speaking in some measure in the heart of every true believer and spiritual man , opening and expounding the scripture unto him , in the due and diligent use of reading , hearing , and meditation of scripture words , or any other means of god's appointing for our institution , and especially in the frequent use of fervent and earnest prayer , praying earnestly with david , who was richly indued with divine revelation , open my eyes , that i may see the wonderful things of thy law ; and most especially in our being found in the way of righteousness , and faithful obedience , to what is already revealed unto us ; for as we are found here , we have good warrant to expect that where any doubt , or controversie in doctrin , or in the meaning of a place of scripture doth arise , that god's holy spirit , whom christ hath promised to his disciples , to teach them all things , and to lead them into all truth , will indeed judge and decide the matter in question , in their hearts , by his secret light , and teaching or revelation . and let it be noted , that i say , it is not the spirit abstractly considered from the scriptures , or our due use of them , or the duty that god requireth of us , but it is the holy spirit opening , or expounding the scriptures unto us , in reading , hearing , meditation , prayer , waiting , and obedience to what we already know , that it is the judge of all controversie in matter of doctrin . 4. next , as to the rule , as the scripture is the best and only external or outward rule and standard , it is worthily preferred to all other outward records and testimonies ; yet because we both believe the scriptures not simply for their own testimony , but for the inward witness and testimony of the spirit , and also because we can only understand the scriptures but by the said inward witness and testimony of the holy spirit ; therefore the inward witness of the spirit , or the spirit inwardly witnessing both to the truth , and true sense of scripture , is the greatest and primary rule , as john plainly testified , saying , if we receive the testimony of men , the testimony or witness of god is greater ; and he that believes hath the witness in himself , and hath set to his seal that god is true . and therefore paul recommended his doctrin to the witness of the spirit in the hearts and consciences of the hearers , and told the thessalonians , 1 thess . 1.5 . that his gospel came unto them not in word only , but in power , and in the holy ghost , and in much assurance : and he told the corinthians , that their faith was to stand in the power of god ; and therefore not in the bare words that he preached , for he did not preach himself , nor his words , but christ to be the foundation of their faith. chap. iv. concerning ministerial gifts and qualifications , and the call to the ministry ; the nature and manner of true preaching , and praying , and singing , and the true gospel-maintenance to the ministry . 1. because of the near and close connexion and dependance , that the things mentioned in the title of this chapter , have with the truth of what is delivered in the preceeding chapters , therefore i do see it meet to treat of them in this place . the common doctrin and opinion of these , who deny all new revelation of the holy spirit , is , that natural and acquired parts of letter-learning , without divine inward revelation or inspiration , is sufficient to qualifie a man to be a minister of the gospel , and is necessary to his esse or being of a minister , and grace or true piety and holiness , is only accidental , and doth but only contribute to his bene esse , or making him the better . by letter-learning , they do not only mean human arts and sciences , and the knowledge of greek , hebrew and latin , but especially a letter-knowledge of the scripture , without any saving grace , or illumination of the spirit , as being essential to a minister : and indeed they say agreeable enough to their own doctrin ; for if all new revelation of the spirit is ceased , what is left behind to qualifie a man to be a minister , but only natural and acquired parts of letter-learning ? nor can they with any reason , affirm , according to their doctrin , that true piety and holiness is essential to a minister , otherwise no man is a minister without it , and then it doth follow , that no man can infallibly be known whether he be a real minister , yea or nay ; for if divine inward revelation be ceased , then all infallible discerning of mens spirits , and spiritual estates is ceased , and no man can know another infallibly , whether he be a saint or hypocrite ; for they grant that a hypocrite may have all the outwards of a true christian , as the pharisees that made clean the outside , but their inward was full of rottenness and uncleanness . and if a man cannot be known to be a true minister , according to their doctrin , the people are in a woful case , as concerning that they call their sacraments , and especially that called the supper , which they say cannot be administred but by a true and real minister ; and if any that is not a true minister , should presume to do any such thing , as to bless , or consecrate , and set apart the bread and wine from common use , it would be no sacrament at all , as some , or most of them affirm . 2. now that divine revelation and inspiration , is necessary to the being or essential constitution of a minister of christ , is evident from the doctrin already delivered ; because it is necessary to the being or essential constitution of every true christian . no man is , or can be a true christian without inward divine revelation or inspiration , and therefore without the same , no man can be a true christian , or gospel-minister , for that which is absolutely necessary to constitute a true christian , or believer , is absolutely necessary to constitute a true christian minister , otherwise it might be said , a man may be a true christian minister , and yet no true christian . but every true minister of christ , as he ought to be a true christian , so he ought to be more than an ordinary christian , so as to exceed or excel them , both in spiritual knowledge , and other spiritual gifts , even as in natural teaching , the master or teacher should exceed the scholar ; for if divine inward revelation , and inspiration , together with other spiritual gifts , are the common priviledg of all true christians , in some degree , more or less , according to their several growth and capacity , much more are they to be found in the true ministers of christ , who are both to feed the babes with milk , and the strong men with meat , and to be , rom. 2.19 , 20. the guide of the blind , a light of them which are in darkness , and instructors of the foolish , and teachers of babes , and also who can speak wisdom among them that are perfect ; according to which christ said to his apostles , ye are the light of the world , and the salt of the earth . 3. but more particularly , it is apparent from the scripture , that there is a peculiar ministerial gift or gifts , that god giveth to all his true ministers , to fit or qualifie them for that great work , whereby to make them able ministers of the new-testament , not of the letter , but of the spirit ; the which gifts are the purchase of christ , and the fruits and effects of his death , resurrection and ascension , as is clear from ephes . 4.8 , 11 , 12. when he ascended on high , he led captivity captive , and gave gifts unto men , and he gave some apostles , and some prophets , and some evangelists , pastors and teachers . where altho' it may be granted , that some of these are extraordinary , as namely , apostles , and some ordinary , yet all are given to the church by christ , as the fruit and effect of his purchase ; and that therefore all ordinary ministers , who are indeed true ministers of christ , are indued with some measure of spiritual gifts , in more or less , according to the good pleasure of god. and as concerning the spiritual peculiar gifts of the holy spirit ( besides these that were common to all , such as faith , love , hope , knowledge , meekness , temperance , patience , brotherly-kindness , charity ) the scripture doth expresly mention them in divers places , 1 cor. 12.8 . to one is given by the spirit , the word , i. e. speech or utterance of wisdom , to another the vvord of knowledg ( that is , some degree inferior ) to another faith , that is , some peculiar degree of faith , for some peculiar service , besides the faith common to all believers ; and all these are ordinary , and have still remained in the true church ; but together with these in the apostles days , there were extraordinary gifts ; which god may give , or with-hold , as he pleaseth ; as not being essential to a true minister of christ ; such were gifts of miracles , gifts of healing , gifts of tongues , and the like . and as concerning prophecying , it was either extraordinary , or ordinary ; extraordinary was a fore-telling of particular things to come , as was that of agabus , his fore-telling that paul should be bound at jerusalem ; ordinary , was the ordinary and usual manner of preaching by the inspiration and motion of the holy ghost , in doctrin , exhortation , correction , &c. moreover concerning this diversity of spiritual gifts , paul saith , rom. 12.6 . having then gifts , differing according to the grace that is given to us , whether prophecy , let us prophecy according to the proportion of faith ; or ministry , let us wait on our ministry , or he that teacheth , on teaching , or he that exhorteth , on exhortation . and likewise peter , concerning these spiritual gifts , saith , 1 pet. 4.10 , 11. as every man hath received the gift , even so minister the same one to another , as good stewards of the manifold grace of god. if any man speak , let him speak as the oracles of god : if any man minister , let him do it as of the ability ( or vertue ) which god giveth , that god in all things may be glorified through jesus christ . and as touching spiritual gifts , that were not common to all christians , but peculiar to some , paul exhorted the believing corinthians , saying , 1 cor. 14.1 . desire spiritual gifts , but rather that ye may prophecy . and he declareth what that prophecying was , vers 3. he that prophesieth speaketh unto men , to edification , and exhortation , and comfort . and vers . 5. greater is he that prophesieth , than he that speaketh with tongues , except he interpret , that the church may receive edifying . and concerning the great power and virtue of prophecying , he said further , vers . 24 , 25. if all prophesie , and there come in one that believeth not , or unlearned , he is convinced of all , he is judged of all : and thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest , and so falling upon the person , to wit , ( that did prophesie ) for so the words may be better translated ) he will worship god , and report that god is in you of a truth . 4. now in the true church , and among the true believers , there was a spiritual discerning or judgment that they had , whereby they did know who had these spiritual gifts , and who had them not , who spoke , and preached by the spirit , and who did pray and sing by the spirit , and who did not , and who not only had the words , but the power , and who had only the words , and had not the power ; and these were false apostles , and false teachers , and hypocrites , that had good words , which they did take or receive from other men , but had not that good power and spirit that was in the true ministers of christ , and because they had not that good power , their ministry and words were dead , dry and barren ; and such the scripture compareth to clouds without rain , and wells or cisterns without water ; and of such paul said , he would know not the speech of them which are puffed up , but the power , 1 cor. 4.19 . the which spiritual discerning or judgment , as it was in some measure given in common to all true believers , as the sense of taste is given in common to beasts & mankind , whereby to relish things sweet or bitter , and meats and drinks , that have the true nourishing virtue in them , so it was given in some greater measure to some than to others , according to their growth , experience , and exercise or use of their spiritual senses , even as both among men and beasts , some do far excell others in the sagacity of the taste of outward things , and so in the smell of things , as flowers , spices , &c. and according to this spiritual discerning and judgment , paul said to the corinthians , 1 cor. 14 , 29. &c. let the prophets speak two or three , and let the other judge : if any thing be revealed to another that sitteth by , let the first hold his peace ; for ye may all prophecy one by one , that all may learn , and all may be comforted , and the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets : for god is not the author of confusion , but of peace , as in all the churches of the saints . so , we see here was good order , where in one meeting two or three might speak one after another , or more , if they had any motion of the spirit so to do , and in that case , the first speaker was to give place to him : but nothing of this is to be found among these churches who deny all inward new revelation of the spirit , but one man must take up all the time , and preach over the people one year , after another , and the people ever learning , and yet never able to come to the knowledge of the truth , as was the manner of false teachers in days past , who had the form of godliness , but denyed the power thereof , who were to be turned from , 2 tim. 3.5 , 6 , 7. and concerning the trying and knowing of spirits , as well as doctrins , the apostle john writ in his general epistle , 1 john 2.1 . believe not every spirit , but try the spirits , whether they are of god. now this ability to try spirits , is greater than barely to try whether a man's doctrin be true or false ; for it is possible a man may preach for an hour , or more , words of doctrin that may be true , and yet his spirit not be of god. and that which gave them this ability , to try all spirits , as well as doctrins , was the vnction , or anointing from the holy one which they had received , 1 john 2.20 , but ye have an vnction , from the holy ' one , and ye know all things . and vers . 26 , 27. these things have i written unto you , concerning them that seduce you , i. e. seek to seduce you ) but the anointing which ye have received of him , abideth in you , and ye need not that any man teach you , but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things , &c. 5. but because it is taken for granted , and laid down for a fundamental among presbyterians and independent teachers , as well as many others , that all inward divine revelation and inspiration , such as believers had in the time of the apostles , is ceased , therefore they lay no claim to any of these spiritual gifts , and plainly confess they have them not , and also that they have no infallible discerning or knowledge what men are truly gracious , and holy , and living members of christ's body , and what not . and therefore when these and other places of scripture are brought , that declare how true ministers of christ had spiritual gifts of ministration , some in a lesser degree , and some in a greater , they alledge , all these gifts are now ceased ; and the reason they give , is , because all inward divine revelation and inspiration , such as the saints formerly had , is altogether ceased . whereas if they did grant , that inward divine revelation did continue , they would also readily grant , that these spiritual gifts of ministry did continue , and a spiritual discerning and ability , whereby to know infallibly who were indeed indued with the spirit of god , and who did preach and pray by the spirit , or sing by the spirit , and who not . and the like concerning the ministerial call , if they did grant , that divine inward revelation and inspiration did continue in the church , as the common priviledge of all true and sound believers , as being given to all and every one of them , to lead them into all truth , they would readily enough grant , that ministers had an inward call to preach , and exercise other ministerial services and performances , as these ministers did of old . so that indeed this their doctrin , that inward divine revelation is ceased in the church , and in believers , is the foundation of many other false and pernicious doctrins , yea , almost of all the false and erroneous doctrins they have among them . and since it is so , that they have no belief of having the spirit of god inwardly inspiring them , and revealing in them the things of god , and inwardly teaching them the mysteries of the kingdom , what is their ministry , or church or ordinances ? all made things of mans making , and inventing , and setting up ; a man-made church , man-made ministry , man-made ordinances , and a man-made worship . and though they say , they hope they have the spirit , and seem at times to lay great stress and weight upon it , and the need of it , not only to believe , but to do all good and acceptable works and performances , yet their blind doctrin and unbelief , that all inward divine revelation is ceased , doth so blind and darken them , generally , and make them so spiritually stupid , senseless and benummed , that they plainly confess , they have no infallible assurance , or infallible knowledge that they have the spirit of god , or any of these gracius motions and operations of the holy spirit . for according to their blind doctrin and faith , all the motions and operations of the spirit are only effective , but none of them objective , and any illumination that they have is only effective , and not objective , that is to say , is no immediate object of their knowledge , or feeling , or spiritual perception , the spirit only works in them , so to speak , as fire or heat works in stone , or iron , or wood , but the stone , iron or wood hath not any inward sense or perception of it ; for if they did grant , true spiritual sense and spiritual feeling or perception , they would grant infallible knowledge of these things , even as our outward senses , when sound and duly qualified , and within due circumstances , give us an infallible knowledge of outward things ; for is not every sensible child infallibly sure that it both seeth its mother , and feeleth her , when the mother is handling the child , and feeding it ? and doth not the suckling on the breast surely know the milk that it sucketh , and can well distinguish the breast that hath milk in it , from that which is dry and empty ? but as the epistle to the hebrews saith , things made , ( to wit , the things of mans making , without the spirit and power of god inwardly revealed ) are all to be removed , heb. 12.26 , 27. yet once more i shake not the earth only , but also heaven . and this word yet once more , signifieth , the removing of these things , that may be shaken , as of things that are made , that those things which cannot be shaken may remain . let them consider this , who seem to themselves to have a church constitution , ministry , discipline , worship , far above others , as heaven is above earth , as the presbyterian church thinks she is above the episcopal , the independent church thinks she is above the presbyterian , the baptists think themselves above both , and yet all these , as well as others , are open and declared enemies to the holy spirit , his inward revelation and inspiration , by which alone the true church is a living church , and the ministry a living ministry , and every true member a living member , and all truly religions , duties and services are living . but made things of mans making , are all dead things , and therefore must all be shaken and removed , not the made earth only , but the made heavens also , of mans making , made faiths , made worships , made ministers , made covenants , all things of mens making without the spirit and power of god inwardly revealed , must all be removed , and every plant that is not of the heavenly fathers planting , must be plucked up . but if any of them say , our churches , our ministry , our faith , our worship , our covenant is not so , for we have the spirit of god assisting us , and working together with us . this answer is but a meer presumption or conjecture , seeing they deny all inward revelation and inspiration of the spirit , which gave the believers and saints in former ages , an infallible kowledge and assurance that they had the spirit of god ; for the spirit that they claim unto , as they say , doth only work in them effectively , but not by way of object ; it is altogether an unknown mean or principle of operation , it hath no proper light , or evidence , or demonstration of its own , such as the spirit that was in the apostles is no infallible spirit , that they have , but fallible , and therefore their faith is fallible , their knowledge fallible , their hope fallible , and every thing in them fallible , dubious , conjectural and uncertain , and they only think that they have the spirit of god , and a spiritual knowledge of things ; and when asked , they dare not say , their thought hath any infallible assurance in it ; as all true assurance is infallible ; yea , some of them are so dark , ignorant and blind , that to me in my hearing , have affirmed , that the apostle paul was not infallibly sure that he had the spirit of god , bringing paul's words , 1 cor. 7.40 . i think also , that i have the spirit of god. but according to his blind argument , the holy ghost is not infallibly sure , for the same greek word is applied to the holy ghost , acts 15.28 . it seemed good to the holy ghost ; but this is blasphemous to think or affirm , and i see not how they can clear their doctrin of blasphemy , to say , that they have the spirit of god , and yet to affirm , that they have no infallible spirit : the plain english of which is , that the spirit of god and god himself is fallible . 6. but the great cause and reason , why all true ministers and preachers of the gospel should not only be truly godly and holy men , but also should be indued with some more than ordinary power of the holy spirit , and communications thereof , not common to all christians , at least in degree , though one spirit in all , is , that the ministry of every true minister of christ , is a ministration of grace , of spirit , of life and power , which doth emanate or flow forth from or through the minister or preacher , as living waters that emanate and flow from a living spring or fountain , which reach and flow into the hearts and inward parts of the hearers , such as are sensible , and whose hearts god is pleased to open to receive them , and sometimes to the opening and making alive the dead souls and hearts of many hearers , whereby not only many that are spiritually dead , are made alive , but the living are made more living , and livingly refreshed and strengthened ; and though this can hardly , or not at all be received by many , yet thousands can witness it from living experience , that they have felt streams of divine life , power and vertue to spring and flow forth , from the spirit of christ , in faithful preachers , into their souls and inward parts , to their exceeding refreshing , and strengthning in the inward man ; and the scriptures abundantly confirm it , that so it was in the primitive times , the ministers of christ , were the ministers of the spirit and power of god , and the outward and audible words that reached the outward ears , were only as a conduit of conveyance , to convey and transmit that heavenly virtue that flowed through them ; and therefore the ministers of god are called in scripture flames of fire , and their words and preaching have a divine and spiritual fire , and heat in them , that exceedingly warm and melt the cold and congealed hearts of many hearers , and that fire is a living fire , or power of life to quicken them . and this was it that made the two disciples , going to emaus , say , how did not our hearts burn within us , while he spoke to us by the way , and opened the scriptures unto us ? and when christ preached to the people , it is said , he spoke with authority , that is , power , and not as the scribes ; and so did the apostles , as paul declared , that his preaching was in demonstration of the spirit , and of power . and christ and the holy spirit spake in him to the people , when he preached ; and so did it in all the other apostles and ministers of christ , and the hearers , who had and knew christ in their own hearts , had a proof sufficient that christ spoke in paul , by what they felt of that spiritual vertue and power that did flow forth through him in his ministry . and according to this , peter exhorted , that he who ministers , should minister of the power that god giveth , as good stewards of the manifold grace of god : so they ministred not only words , but grace , and power , and life to the hearers . and thus there is a communication of the grace , and graces of god , not only betwixt ministers and hearers , but among all the faithful , who are as one living body , but many members , and every member a living member , and ministring life one to another , as it is in the natural body ; and this is that communion of the saints that the scripture testifieth , that they had together in the spirit , which did knit their hearts together in love , unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding , col. 2.2 . and with such living instruments , that are spiritually made alive unto god , doth god work , to make their ministry effectual and fruitful , to convert and beget souls unto god , and when begotten , to nourish and feed them with the sincere milk of the word , which milk is not the outward words , but the life that is in the words : for as in the outward , god doth not work with a dead man , to beget outward and natural children , but with the living ; so it is with men spiritually living , with whom god worketh , to beget sons and daughters spiritually unto god , where god only properly and principally is the father , and men but instruments with , and by whom he worketh ; and in order to this spiritual begetting of sons and daughters unto god , by the ministry of faithful preachers , god giveth unto them a spiritual and divine seed , which they convey in their words into the hearts and souls of their hearers , according to 1 cor. 9.10 . he that ministreth seed to the sower . and isa . 55.10 . that it may give seed to the sower . so that there is a divine and spiritual seed in the words and preaching of a true minister of christ ; for the words are living words , and are not his , but the words of christ , and of the holy spirit that speaketh in him . but he that speaketh words , as suppose scripture-words , and not by the spirit of christ speaking in him , there is no divine seed in the words , there is the form or body of the words , but there is no soul or life in them , as he speaks them . and these men are like that harlot which took hold of josephs garment , but himself she could not enjoy : so many get the outward form of the words of truth , but the spirit of truth they have not , and who have it not , cannot minister it : and therefore paul imputeth all the good fruit and success of his ministry not to himself , but to the grace of god that was with him , and in him , 1 cor. 15.10 . how then can a graceless man have any fruit or success in his ministry , seeing all fruit and success belongeth not to the man , however so well furnished with natural or acquired parts , but to the grace of god ? it is grace , grace , that maketh a man's preaching effectual to the hearers , and that grace is in the minister , and worketh both in him , and with him in the hearts of the hearers , where god is pleased to concur , and give the blessing and increase ; and thus the grace of god is like a good seed and plant , that not only bringeth forth fruit in that little spot of earth , where it was first planted , but spreadeth abroad , and filleth many other parts and places with it , and hath new roots and seeds continually encreasing and multiplying . 7. and as concerning the call to the ministry , it is worthy of great observation , how they are pinched and narrowed to give any colourable account of their call , who deny all inward and immediate calling to the ministry , and especially such of them , who say , the church of rome is no true church , but a harlot , and the pope is antichrist ; as the westminster cenfession of faith doth expresly call him , cap. 25. sect . 6. and yet the presbyterian ministers generally derive their call from him ; and i have heard divers of them expresly affirm it , being questioned about their call , whether immediate or mediate ? they have answered mediate , from the apostles ; and then being urged to shew the line of succession , through which that mediate call is conveyed unto them , they have plainly said , the popes of rome , as one lately , a preacher in new-england said , before some hundreds of people , that their call to preach , was by the popes of rome ; and so according to their own doctrin , by antichrist . surely these men do not believe that christ is in them , either to call , or furnish them in their ministry , who must go so far as rome to bring it , and from him too whom they call antichrist . but they think rome , and the pope however much distant from them , is much nearer than christ and heaven , from whom the true ministers have their call. 8. and as all true preaching ought to be by the inspiration and moving of the spirit of god , so all true praying and singing , both in private and in publick ; for still that is it which the scripture enjoyneth , ephes . 6.18 . to pray always with the spirit , or in the spirit ; and no man can say that jesus is the lord , either in preaching or praying , but by the holy ghost . and i charge them to produce one instance , where praying without the spirit is commanded any where in scripture , or was ever practised by any of the saints , without the inspiration of the spirit . do they not grant , that all the prayers recorded in scripture , did proceed from divine inspiration and revelation ? and if their prayers do not , they are quite of a bastard kind ; for the true worshippers worship the father in spirit and in truth , and the father seeketh such to worship him , and none else . and whereas some say , then men who neglect prayer , are excusable , because they have not the spirit to move them to prayer . i answer ; not , they are not in the least excusable , for as he that oweth a sum of mony to his prince , though he hath not wherewith to pay his debt , is still debtor , and yet must not pay with false coyn , but true ; so he , who hath not the spirit 's assistance and help to pray , is still obliged to pray , but not without the spirit ; and that he hath not the spirit 's help at all seasonable and requisite times for prayer , it is his own default , who hath resisted the spirit , and provoked him to with-draw his necessary assistance from him ; for the spirit of the lord is ready to give his seasonable help to all men , to help them both in prayer , and thanksgiving , and all other commanded duties and performances . and as for singing on a book , and with artificial musick , and notes or tones , it is no part of gospel-worship , being no where either commanded , or practised in the new-testament . and it is strange , that these men should be against praying on a book , and yet sing on a book , for if the one be not spiritual , the other is not . 9. there are others , such as these called independents and baptists , who deny all immediate call to the ministry , and yet betake themselves to as poor and shiftless evasion about their call , as the former . they say , they have the call of the church . but still the question is , whence had the church her power , either immediately or mediately ? and then the former difficulty returneth : for they cannot say , their church hath been visible from the apostles days ; and besides , the church is posterior to the ministry , for by true preachers and ministers , people come to be converted , and so to be made fit members of a church , and therefore the ministers , by whom their church was first raised , or gathered , cannot have their call from the same , for that were to put the effect before the cause ; or to say , the church called the ministers , and the ministers called the church , is to run into a circle ; as to say , the egg bringeth forth the hen , and the hen bringeth for the egg , to wit , first of all , which is impossible . 10. and as concerning true gospel-maintenance to the ministry ; any maintenance that may be necessary , to any that are poor , and have not of their own , according to the scripture , it ought to be free and voluntary , without force of human law and compulsion ; for the scripture saith , he that preacheth the gospel , should live by the gospel . it doth not say , by human laws , and straining of mens goods and cattle , as the preachers both of old and new-england have done ; and they ought to relie upon the gracious care and providence of god , that never suffered his ministers to want : for when christ sent forth his disciples without bag or scrip , at their return they said , they wanted nothing . secondly , there should be no bargaining in the case betwixt the minister and the people , for that is altogether mercenary , and proveth them to be hirelings , and the servants of men , who have so hired them . thirdly , they should receive only to supply their present necessities , and labour with their hands , as honest paul did , that he might make the gospel of christ without charge , who would not abuse his power in the gospel , 1 cor. 9.18 . and 2 cor. 11.9 . i was chargeable to no man. and 1 thes . 2.9 . because we would not be chargeable , and 2 thes . 3.8 . for why may not ministers , when they do not preach , or otherwise labour in the ministerial work , work with their hands to supply their necessities , to live honestly and worthily , as many preachers at this day ( as well as formerly ) do , both work and preach by turns , and as they have freely received , so they give freely ; and these no man can charge them , that they have made their gospel chargeable , as the preachers both of old and new-england have done , who have put the people to great charge of many thousand pounds yearly , and yet the people is not profited under them ; and they have by force taken , or caused to be taken , from many who did not hear them , nor own them to be ministers of christ , for which they have no president either in the old or new testament . 11. and whereas they who plead , that true piety is not essential to a gospel-minister : first , bring judas for a president , to which it is easily answered ; first , that it is said , judas fell from his ministry by transgression , and therefore some time he stood ; and it is more than ever they can prove , that judas never had any measure of true piety or sanctification , when christ did first send him forth ; for although he might have covetous and evil inclinations , that doth not argue that he had nothing of true sanctification , according to their own doctrin , who affirm , that a man may have true sanctification , and yet have not only strong evil inclinations , but very evil practices . but 2 dly , when judas was called , the pure gospel dispensation had not taken place , and did not until christ rose from the dead , and gave the holy ghost . next they say , christ told the people , that the pharisees sate in moses chair , and he did not forbid them , but rather encouraged them to hear them , saying , do what they say , but do not as they do . to this it is answered , the pharisees and scribes teaching belonged to the law ; and so they pass from the true state of the question , which is , whether ministers of the gospel need not true holiness to make them true ministers ? 3 dly . they object paul's words concerning some that preached christ not sincerely , and yet he said , christ was preached , and therein he rejoyced . to which i answer , that doth not justifie their preaching , but it holdeth forth the great power and wisdom of god , that causeth all things to work together for his own glory , and the good of his , as when by persecutions , and reproaches , and slanders , and false accusations , and contending against the truth , the truth doth the more spread and flourish , as hath oft been known , and therein god's servants have rejoyced ; yet this doth not justifie these persecutors , lyers , and false accusers . chap. v. concerning god , his decrees , and election and reprobation , and the general state of mankind by means of adam's fall , and the way of restoration by christ . 1. it hath been a common thing among both presbyterian and independent teachers , in old and new-england , to accuse the honest people , called in derision quakers , of being guilty of blasphemy against god and christ , and the holy ghost , for no other cause , but that they express their faith of the great mystery of the father , the son , and the holy ghost , in scripture words , and have not freedom to use the words of man's wisdom , and that come only from the spirit of man , and have not proceeded from the spirit of god , whereby to express and declare their faith of so great and glorious mystery : and by means of this so great accusation , and others as false and injurious , they prevailed with the magistrates of new-england , to cause to be put to death three dear and precious men-servants of the lord , and one dear and precious maid-servant of the lord , beside many other cruel sufferings inflicted upon others , for which great cruelty and barbarity , the hand of the lord hath been manifestly stretched out against them , in manifest judgments and plagues , that divers among them have since acknowledged . and therefore let all men know , to whose hands this may come , that the people called quakers , never denyed , but on the contrary , faithfully believed , and do still faithfully believe whatever is recorded in the holy scriptures , of that great mystery , to wit , that god is one , and that the father , the son , and the holy ghost is that one only , true and living god , the creator and upholder of all , and lord and king of all visible and invisible things , and that the father is begotten of none , the son is begotten of the father , from everlasting , and before all time ; and the holy ghost hath proceeded from the father , and from the son , from everlasting , and before all time ; and that the son is god manifest in flesh , who came in the flesh , in the fulness of time , as the scripture declareth ; and that the lord jesus christ whom the apostles preached , that dyed for our sins , and rose again for our justification , and is ascended and gone into heaven , is that alone son of god , and the only begotten of the father , in whom the fulness of the god-head dwelleth bodily , and the lord jesus christ in the intire and perfect nature of man , consisting of soul and body , is gone into heaven , and is in heaven ; and that his body that was crucified , and buried , did not see corruption , but was raised on the third day , and after forty days did ascend , and was glorified , according to which glorious body of the lord jesus christ , we believe that at the resurrection of the dead our bodies shall be changed , and be made like , or conform . acts 1.11 . and that the same jesus , who is ascended , and was taken up into heaven , shall so come in like manner as they did see him go into heaven . 2. and as concerning god , we believe , that he is a spirit , infinite , unchangeable and incomprehensible , omniscient , omnipotent and omnipresent , infinitely wise , holy , powerful , good , merciful and gracious , just and righteous , that he is light and love ; and whatever the scripture doth declare of him , we faithfully believe ; although this name of him , to wit , light , the faith-publishers at westminster have altogether omitted in their confession , whether heedlesly or designedly , that i leave ; but it seemeth they knew little of him , if any thing at all , by that name ; and yet it was the message that the apostles heard from him , and declared unto men , that god is light , and that he is in the light , to wit , in christ , who is the light of men ; and that if we walk in the light , as he is in the light , we have fellowship one with another , and the blood of his son jesus christ cleanseth us from all sin , 1 john 1.5 , 6 , 7. and indeed it suits most with their doctrin , that all inward divine revelation is ceased , either to conceal , or deny that god is light , as to us , and in us , or in any of his saints , or that christ is light to and in his saints ; for the nature of the light , yea , of all true light , is to reveal , and make it self manifest by it self , as well as other things ; and this description the apostle paul giveth of it , ephes . 5.13 . whatever maketh manifest , is light , according to the english translation ; or as it may be as well translated , the light is that which maketh manifest every thing , to wit , both it self , and all other things : and this description of light belongeth only to god and christ , and the holy spirit , in the full extent of it ; for no created light , visible or invisible , can manifest or reveal all things , the outward light of the sun can only manifest some outward things , but not all , it cannot let us see what is under the earth , or in the bottom of the seas , but god can , and doth search all deeps , and can reveal or make manifest every thing , however so hid ; and therefore the name light doth more properly belong to god , the father of lights , and to christ , and to the holy ghost , than to any created light , visible or invisible ; and yet a publick preacher in new-england , in the town of hampton , before some hundreds of people , most of them his common hearers , did affirm , that god was not properly light , but only by a figure borrowed from the outward light of the sun : and to say , god was light , and christ was light , was the fundamental error of the quakers . and though some of his brethren have blamed his rashness , yet it cannot be denyed , but he said that which was most consequential and agreeable to his brethren's doctrin , and the westminster confession of faith , which the church of new-england hath espoused to be her confession of faith also ; for if god do not at all reveal himself immediately , or any other things , he is not light at all unto his saints now on earth ; as we may well say , if the outward sun should with-draw his beams altogether from the eyes of men , or that some dark body should be interposed always betwixt the sun's light and men's eyes , the sun should not be light unto men ; for it is the nature and property of all light , to reveal it self immediately to every one , or else not at all , and always to be its own messenger , and to discover , teach and direct men by its own light and evidence , and not by any other thing . for to say , the sun doth not lighten us immediately , when it giveth us its illumination , is a great contradiction that the assertion carrieth to it self ; for whatever means or mediums the sun's light passeth through to our eyes , as the air , glass , and the tunicles of our eyes , or suppose some lattise or thin vail , or cloathing , yet it s still immediate ; or if it be reflected from a looking-glass , or any other object , yet the light it self coming to our sight through all these means , or mediums , and not stopping or staying by the way , nor employing some other messenger in its room , to carry the tydings of it to us , it is still immediate , & the light hath a self-evidence , whereby to make it self known , without any other help or instrument , whereby to make it known . and thus god is light , and thus not only the saints knew god to be light , but also divers of the gentiles , who had not the scriptures , knew god to be light ; as plotinus , who said , as we see & know the sun by his own light : so we see and know god by his own light : and pythagoras and plato declared god to be light ; and it was one of pythagora's rules , let none presume to speak or teach of god , without his light , wherein he saw further and better into the true mystery of preaching and teaching , than these blind faith makers at westminster , and new-england preachers , who have espoused that blind and dark thing called their confession of faith. and plato taught , that god created the soul of man in a region of divine light , and then it conversed with the true substance of light , and of every other thing ; but by its sin , it was thrust down into a cave , or dungeon , where it only conversed with shadows and figures , or images of things , which are the things of this outward and perishing world. and this doth well agree with the scripture , that saith , god drove out the man from the garden : and thus the mind of man losing the inward enjoyment of god , the true light , did joyn it self to the perishing things of this world , where it can find no true rest , for they are but figures and shadows ; and the scripture calleth this world a fashion or figure , and scheme , 1 cor. 7.31 . and why is christ called the true light , and the true bread in scripture , and the truth , but to signifie unto us , that he is indeed more truly and properly , and satisfyingly the soul 's true light and food , than the outward light and bread is unto the body , or outward man ? and therefore in comparison of god , all created things of heaven and earth , are said to be nothing , and less than nothing , and the nations are as nothing , and less than nothing before him , isa . 40.17 . and therefore as the name being , and good doth most properly belong to him , as christ said , there is none good , but god so the names light , life and love , do most properly belong to him , though it is most readily granted , that he doth infinitely surpass and excel all that men can either speak , or think of him , and that he hath a name that none knoweth , but he himself ; but since it hath pleased god to call himself by the name light , speaking unto men in the language of the sons of men ; i say , in the language of men , the name light doth most properly , and without all figure , belong to god and christ , and this the saints in light well knew ; but they who know not the light , and believe not in it , it is no wonder that they think that god or christ is light only by a figure or metaphor , from the outward light : for indeed the animal or natural man , that only followeth his natural thoughts and apprehensions , doth not know god , but by figures and shadows : and though i plead for the immediate revelation of god and christ in the hearts and spirits of his saints , who is their light and life , yet the means are owned and acknowledged in their place , as good men are means , good books , and especially the scriptures are means whereby to transmit the light of god and christ unto us , as he is pleased to make use of them , and not otherwise ; even as the air , or glass of the window , cannot convey any light of the sun unto us but when the sun shineth ; for when the sun withdraweth , and hideth his face , the air and the glass hath no light to convey unto us : and thus it is as to all men , and books , and means , they can convey no light to us , but what , how , and when god , the father of lights , is pleased to send forth through them unto us ; and this david well knew , when he prayed , saying , o send , forth thy light , and thy truth , to lead me and guide me to thy holy hill , and lift up the light of thy countenance upon us , psal . 43.3 . psal . 4.6 . and as it pleaseth god often , to transmit the beams of his divine light , life and love into our souls , through means and instruments , as good men , and good books , and especially in reading or meditating in the scriptures , and also good angels , who are ministring spirits , and do minister to the heirs of salvation , so many times it pleaseth him to bring them into a solitude , or solitary place , hos . 2.14 . and there to speak unto them , and reveal himself , to the unspeakable satisfaction of their souls , without all means whatsoever , save only that great , and always most necessary and desirable mean , the lord jesus christ , in and through whom the father doth always speak , and reveal his glory to his dear children , even as christ declared , saying , no man knoweth the father , but the son , and he to whom the son reveals him . for none of all the prophets or apostles did know , or converse with god , but as the son did reveal him , who is that most lovely and aimable skreen , cloathing or vail , through which the glory of the father shineth forth into our souls , meekly , and gently , and yet most sweetly , according as every one is able to receive . 3. and they who deny all inward divine revelation of god in his saints , ever since the apostles days , and would wholly exclude the saints from all inward enjoyment of god and christ , in their own immediate light , glory and brightness , may be justly charged with blasphemy against the great love and kindness of god to his people : and such of the priests of new-england , who have blasphemously called the light of god in his people , a stinking vapour from hell ; and do blaspheme against the light of god and christ in all men , in a day of visitation , that is given to lead and bring them unto god , a meer human and natural light , corrupt and dark , as some of them have called it , and as they generally esteem of it . and yet for this their blasphemy , we would not have the magistrate to hang them , or any way to punish them , but our desire , and prayer unto god is for them , if it be his good will , that such of them , who have not out-lived the day of visiation , may find mercy to repent , and believe , and acknowledge the truth they have so long gain-sayed . and whereas these faith-publishers at westminster in old-england , and at cambridge and boston in new-england , do say in their confession , cap. 26. sect 3. this communion which the saints have with christ , doth not make them in any wise partakers of the substance of his god-head , and that to affirm it is impious , and blasphemous . it deserveth our serious consideration , and to examin where the impiety and blasphemy lieth , whether at their door who deny it , or theirs who affirm it ? even that the saints are partakers of the substance of his god-head . and first , as to their proof from scripture , they cite col. 1.18 , 19. and he is the head of the body , the church , who is the beginning , the first-born from the dead , that in all things he might have the preheminence ; for it pleased the father , that in him should all fulness dwell . but this place of scripture saith not that the saints are not partakers of the substance of the god-head of christ , but the contrary may be proved from this very place , which calleth him , the head of the body , the church . for as it is the same substance of life , that is in the head , and in the body , and every member of it : so it is the same divine life and spirit , that is in christ , the head , and all his members , and that spirit is the holy spirit , and that life is the word , and the word and the spirit are one substance and being with god , as the same confession saith , cap. 2. sect . 3. and that the saints are partakers of the divine nature , and of the holy ghost , the scripture expresly declareth it , 2 pet. 1.4 . and heb. 6.4 . so that it is marvelous blindness , or inadvertency in these men , so to contradict the express scripture testimony : and for the word substance , with respect to the inward enjoyment of god and christ , the scripture hath it expresly in several places , prov. 8.21 . that i may cause those that love me to inherit substance ; and i will fill their treasures . and heb. 10.34 . knowing that in your selves ( for so the greek doth bear it ) ye have in heaven a better , and more enduring substance . for as they had it in heaven , so they had an earnest of it on earth , in their hearts ; and that all fulness dwelleth in christ , doth not prove that his saints enjoy none of that fulness , but on the contrary . out of her fulness , as said john , we have all received , and grace for grace , john 1.16 . and not only the saints receive gifts and graces from christ , but they receive him , and the father in him , and with him , to live and dwell in them , according to john 17.23 . i in them , and thou in me . and yet this doth not infer that the saints are equal with christ , that they have the same spirit and life with him , and through him , and by and from him , as it doth not prove that the foot is equal with the head , because the same soul or spirit that is in the head , is in the foot ; and the same life that is in the root of a tree , is in the branches ; and as christ said , i am the vine , ye are the branches . and if the saints do no wise partake of the substance of the godhead of christ , i ask them , what do they partake of him ? do they partake only of the substance of his manhood without the godhead , or of neither ? if the first , then the manhood of christ , as they partake of it , is without the godhead , which is blasphemy indeed ; or if the second , that is to say , the saints do neither partake of the substance of his godhead , nor of the substance of his manhood , then they partake nothing of christ at all substantially , according to their doctrin . o miserable teachers ! what then do they partake of him , if nothing substantially ? of his accidents , as they commonly say , all graces are nothing but accidents . then here is a new sort of doctrin of transubstantiation , as these of rome say , the consecrated wafer or cake , hath the accidents of bread in it , as the colour , taste and smell of bread , but nothing of the substance of bread is there . so say these faith-makers , the saints that did see , smell , taste and feel of christ in ancient times , that which they did spiritually see , smell , taste and feel with their souls and hearts , is only accidents , and no substance . this is more strange than that other , that there is no substance of bread in the cake , but only the accidents . but why was not your reverend brother , as ye called him , john owen , taxed with blasphemy , for affirming , that the holy ghost doth well in believers really ( and as he worded it personally ) together with his graces . and samuel rutherfold , a great presbyterian , who said in one of his printed epistles , he will have none of the graces of christ without himself , and if the graces did come unto him without christ , he would send them away the gate ( or way ) they came . and as for the other scriptures they cite , they prove indeed that the lord jesus christ is but one , and there is none else , nor is any man , or men , or angels equal to him , which we most cordially believe ; but they say , not in the least , nor by any just consequence , can it be gathered , that the saints do not partake substantially of god. and to shew the great inequality betwixt christ and the saints , not only in the measure and degree but in the manner or kind of partaking of the holy spirit , which is one substance with god. christ , the son , hath god , and the holy spirit , without any middle , or mediator betw●●t the father and him , but the saints only have , and enjoy the father , and the holy spirit , through christ the mediator , and together with him , and in him : and this i hope will satisfie all sober and impartial men , to clear the doctrin of the quakers , that it is according to scripture . 4. next , as concerning the decrees of god , these faith-publishers say , that god hath unchangeably ordained whatsoever comes to pass , yet so as neither is god the author of sin , nor is violence offered to the will of the creatures : whereby it plainly appeareth , they hold that god hath ordained and decreed all manner of sins and blasphemies , adulteries , thefts , robberies , homicides , regicides , &c. which is abominable and blasphemous doctrin , with a witness . they need not blame the ranters , seeing they are so fully one with them in doctrin ; for that is one of the worst doctrins that the ranters have , that god doth all , and hath unchangeably ordained and decreed all things , both good and bad ; for certainly whatever god hath ordained and decreed to come to pass , he is the doer of it , for he executeth ( that is , bringeth to pass ) all his own decrees , as they confess in their large catechism , ans . to quest . 14. and that they say , yet so , as god is not the author of sin ; they say it indeed , and so many of the worst sort of ranters , but how they clear their doctrin of so unavoidable consequence , they have not told the world , nor ever can they sufficiently clear it . and for the scriptures they bring , as especially ephes . 1.11 . that god worketh all things after the counsel of his own will ; here is nothing mentioned of the sins of men and devils : it is plain both from reason , and scripture , that by all things must needs be understood all his own works , and not the sins of men and devils , which he is not the author of ; as when we say , every wise man doth all things by wisdom , and wise counsel ; none is so foolish as to put this gloss upon it . that he doth all foolish things . it is an approved maxim and rule , verba sunt intelligenda , secundum subjectam materiam , i. e. words are to be understood according to the subject matter . it is worthily granted and acknowledged , that god worketh all good things , all virtue and goodness is of him , all good thoughts , words and works , &c. but all sin is of the devil , and evil men ; as john said , whosoever committeth sin , is of the devil , and the lust of the flesh , the lust of the eye , and the pride of life , is all of the devil , and not of the father . and as christ said , the devil when he speaketh a lye , he speaketh of his own . it is also granted , that when any commit sin , the power whereby they act , is of god ; but when they sin , they abuse that power ; and also whatever sin cometh to pass , is not without god's permission , and that is not a bare permission , but a most holy and wise ordering , and bounding of it to his own glory . and as to acts 2.23 . a main place , that ranters , and presbyterian and independent teachers abuse and wrest , ( as they do other scriptures , to their own destruction , if they repent not ) it giveth them no strength at all . for it saith , him ( to wit , christ ) being delivered by the determinate counsel and fore-knowledg of god , ye have taken , &c. so we see , that he was delivered , or exposed unto them by the determinate counsel of god , but that they did kill him by the determinate counsel of god , the scripture saith not . for to deliver is one thing , and to slay is another . our worthy friends that were put to death at boston in new-england , they delivered up their lives freely into the hands of these murtherers , and so did many of the martyrs , not accepting deliverance ; and yet they did not kill themselves , as these bloody persecutors use to alledge . and that it s said , god hardneth whom he will. his hardning , is not the making their hearts hard , with infusing any evil spirit into them , but that he justly with-draws his good spirit from them , for great sins formerly committed , and so leaveth them to harden their own hearts . as it is said , that pharoah hardned his heart . and thus do many sober and judicious protestants understand the words . 5. again , as concerning election and reprobation , first , as to the election and predestination of the saints unto eternal glory , and happiness , whatever the scripture saith of it , or of any other doctrin , we do readily believe and acknowledge it , as , that god hath chosen the saints in christ jesus before the foundation of the world , that they should be holy and unblamable before him in love , ephes . 1.4 . and rom. 8.29 . for whom he did fore-know , he also did predestinate , to be conform to the image of his son , &c. and whom he did predestinate , them he called , and whom he called , them he justified . and what christ said to the disciples , ye have not chosen me , but i have chosen you , and appointed you , to bring forth fruit , and that your fruit should remain , joh. 15.16 . and 1 john 4.10 . herein is love , not that we loved god , but that he loved us , and sent his son to be the propitiation for our sins ; and vers . 19. we love him , because he first loved us . a most sweet and comfortable testimony , as all the other . but we no where find in all the scripture , that god hath reprobated any part of mankind , before the foundation of the world ; nor is it said , that men hate god , because he first hated them ; and because god hated them , he made them , on purpose to damn or destroy them , and decreed and ordained them to sin , that he might take occasion thereby to damn them . no such thing at all is found in the holy scriptures , nor can be gathered from them by any just consequence ; for although it be allowed , that gods purpose and holy will concerning them that finally perish , is from before the foundation of the world ( for there is no new will or purpose in god , the thoughts and counsels of his heart being from everlasting , as himself is ) yet that will of god regardeth and considereth them that shall finally perish , not simply as men , nor yet simply as sinners , either for adam's sin , or other sins that they have formerly committed , before that great sin of final vnbelief and impenitency , but it doth regard and consider them , as having a day of visitation , and a call to repent , and a tender of grace , love and mercy from god the father , and the lord jesus christ , and as having resisted and rejected the same , and hardning their hearts against it , and that finally , until the day of their visitation be over , whereby they declare themselves unworthy of eternal life , and that they are none of christ's sheep , but goats , to be put at the left hand ; and if any say , if these men were not elected before the foundation of the world , it will follow that they were reprobated before it . i answer ; it doth not follow ; for elected and reprobated are not contradictory terms , being both positive , and election signifieth a preference of some before others , but that doth not argue a total reprobation of others , when god did elect some . but at the end of the world , and in the conclusion it is granted , that all who are not elected , are but reprobates , to wit , when all god's elect seed every where , are gathered out , selected and separated from others , as so many grains of pure gold from all the dross , tin and lead that they have been mingled with for a time , here in this world , that then nothing will remain but that which is reprobate , and which the scripture calleth reprobate silver , the pure being wholly separated and selected from the impure , the gold and silver from the dross , the wheat from the tares , the sheep from the goats , and the good fish from the bad , and the children of the kingdom , from the children of the wicked one ; he who hath ears to hear , let him hear , and the wise in heart let them understand , for unto them it is given , but unto others , as christ said , in parables , that seeing they may not see , and hearing that they may not hear , nor understand . and also it is readily granted , that there is a special and peculiar , and singularly gracious care and providence of god , towards all that shall be saved from the beginning of the world to the end , and the number of them is most infallibly known unto god , and every one of that number shall certainly be saved , and none of them shall finally perish , but in the proper season and time shall be graciously visited , called , converted , justified , sanctified , and last of all glorified , and this without any violence done to their rational faculties or free-will ; for god doth well know how to gain and prevail upon the understanding , and will , and inclinations of his people , by such gentle , and yet prevalent and overcoming perswasions and allurements , and motions of his holy spirit of grace , of light and life , as shall infallibly gather them unto himself . and it is also granted , that as god hath provided that grace , whereby some shall certainly be saved , so by the same all are put under a capacity or possibility of salvation : and therefore that any are not saved in this world , is not because of any want , or defect in the sufficiency , or efficacy in the grace in its own nature ; but because of them , whom god in his infinite justice and counsel permits finally to resist it , even as in the parable of the sower , the seed was one and the same in all the four grounds , but the grounds differed one from another , and that one ground was good , was of god , but that others were bad , was of themselves ; and the word election doth properly enough signifie , selection , seperating and setting a part or refining , as when gold or silver is separated in the furnace from the dross . and this separation hath had its various degrees and progress , from first to last , as when gold or silver is purified or purged in the sire seven times , and then in the seventh time , it hath no mixture , but is all pure , or as when liquor is poured from vessel to vessel several times , or as wheat is winnowed again and again , until all the chaff be separated . and in this sense we find the word election used in scripture divers times . isa . 14.1 . for the lord will have mercy on jacob , and will yet chuse israel . and isa . 49.7 . and he shall chuse thee . and zach. 1.17 . and the lord shall yet comfort zion , and shall yet chuse jerusalem . and zach. 2.12 . he shall chuse jerusalem again . and isa . 48.10 . i have chosen thee in the furnace of affliction . and in this sense of the word , as it signifieth a selecting or separating the pure from the impure , election doth go before reprobation , and is not co-evous with it . but whether that election in christ before the foundation of the world , doth in some sort signifie a selection or setting apart in christ the head , who was before the foundation of the world , and is said to be the lamb slain from the foundation of the world , as some mystick writers affirm , it is not my present business to determine , neither is it necessary at this present occasion . 6. but the place of scripture which they mainly abuse and wrest , to prove this reprobate doctrin of theirs , of an absolute reprobation of the greatest part of mankind , even before they are born , and that not only babes and sucklings on the mothers breasts , but in the womb are absolute reprobates and cast-aways , and that some , yea , many infants die in a state of reprobation , and perish eternally ( only for adams sin imputed unto them ( as they say , without any knowledge or eonsent of theirs ) and corrupt nature derived into them ) and that all such reprobates never had , or ever shall have any opportunity of saving grace , whereby it was possible to them at any time to be saved . the place of scripture , i say , they mainly abuse and wrest , to favour this evil and pernicious doctrin , is that in rom. 9.11 , 12 , 13. but for the opening and vindicating of this place of scripture , let it be considered , that here is only a preference mentioned of jacob before esau , how that the elder shall serve the younger , but this saith nothing of esau his being absolutely reprobated . the great design of the apostle paul , being to shew that god had chosen the line of jacob before the line of esau , and given unto that line and posterity of jacob , a preference and dignity over the line and posterity of esau , and that the reason of this preference was not any works that they had done , but for some other cause hid in the secret counsel of god ; and this preference did appear , first , in chusing the line and posterity of jacob , to be his church in that peculiar dispensation of the mosaical law , and giving them many prophets , and other excellent men , to be raised up among them , and honouring them with many great and signal appearances , signs and wonders ; whereas the posterity of esau was not so highly favoured , and yet they had a divine dispensation among them , which did suffice unto that present time and state . secondly , in that god did chuse the line of jacob , and his posterity , out of whom christ should be born after the flesh , and also the apostles , and that out of jacob the gospel should go forth and be preached to all the world. 3dly . that the nation that should come of esau should really become servants , and tributaries to the nation of israel ; and this was fulfilled in david's time , and was also a figure of another thing to be spiritually fulfilled . and therefore this election doth not infer any reprobation of esau , or his posterity , as to their eternal estate , no more than when david said , 1 chron. 28.4 , 5. the lord god of israel chose me before all the house of my father , for he hath chosen judah to be the ruler , and of the house of judah , the house of my father , and of the sons of my father , he liked me to make me king over all israel ; and of all my sons , he hath chosen solomon my son. so here are divers elections ; first , judah out of all the tribes ; secondly , the family of jesse , out of the tribe of judah ; thirdly , david out of all the sons of jesse ; and fourthly , solomon out of all the sons of david , and yet no absolute reprobation of any that were not so chosen , as to their eternal state . and because many of the people of israel were proud , because of this choice and preference that god made of their nation , above the nation of esau , so as to make them a church to himself , when the nation of esau was not so favoured , for reasons best known unto god , and for that cause did conclude , that they were always to remain a people singularly favoured of him above all other people , from first to last . to beat down this vain conceit of theirs , paul telleth them , first , that they are not all israel , which are of israel . secondly , that as god did prefer , and make choice of the nation of israel , to be a gathered people and church unto him , before the nation of esau , and that without any regard to their works , or to the works of their fathers , but for some other hid cause and reason in the depth of gods secret counsel ; so god could as freely , yea , and would prefer the poor gentiles , who were no people , to be a people unto him , and a gospel-church , to become true believers in the lord jesus christ , when in the mean time the bulk and body of the nation of israel should be rejected , and cast off , at least for some time , from having any such dignity and favour ( a remnant only being reserved , according to the election of grace , rom. 11.5 . ) and this paul proveth at large , from verse 25. of that 9th . chapter , to verse 33. and doth further prosecute it in the two following chapters . verse 25. &c. as he saith also in o see , i will call them my people , which are not my people , and her beloved , which was not beloved . and verse 30. what shall we say then ? that the gentiles which followed not after righteousness , have attained to righteousness , even the righteousness of faith ; but israel , which followed after the law of righteousness , hath not attained to the law of righteousness , because they sought it not by faith , &c. so , we see how paul maketh the parallel , that as god once preferred , or chused jacob's nation , before the nation of esau , so again he preferred and chused the gentiles ( that had no good works to recommend them , and to move god to make that choice ) out of his free mercy , before the people of israel ; and of these gentiles , no doubt , many of them did belong to the posterity of esau , and also of ishmael , yea , of cain ; for there is an express promise made to the remnant of edom , and of all the heathen , upon whom his name is or shall be called , amos 9.12 . and it is but a remnant also of israel that is saved , until the fulness of the gentiles come in , and then all israel ( to wit , the true israel , which is not all who are of israel after the flesh ) shall be saved ; see rom. 9.27 . and 11.5.25 , 26. and lastly , it is to be again considered , that what god spoke unto rebecca , before the children were born , not having done good or evil , did not so much regard the singular persons of jacob and esau , as their posterities , as is clear from gen. 25.23 . and the lord said unto her , two nations are in thy womb , and two manner of people shall be separated from thy bowels ; and the one people shall be stronger than the other people , and the elder shall serve the younger . so we see here , the words are said of the nations of jacob and esau , and not the persons of them ; for we read not any where that ever esau in person served jacob , but only in his posterity , as was fulfilled in david's time , when the edomites became tributaries to the people of israel : nor was it said before the children were born , jacob have i loved , and esau have i hated , as it is commonly alledged , but many hundred years after he was deceased . and if it had been so said , it could not prove an absolute rejection either of esau , or his posterity , as to their eternal state ; for god is said in scripture to hate all evil-doers , and yet many evil-doers repent , and obtain salvation , and therefore hatred doth not signifie absolute and final hatred , either in god or men : for it is said , jacob loved rachel , and hated leah ; that is , he loved rachel more : and christ said , he that hateth not father , and mother for my cause , is not worthy of me ; that is , he that loveth me not more than father and mother . and therefore to conclude , this whole passage in rom. 9.11 , 12. doth not prove the absolute reprobation of either esau , or of his posterity , because many of esau's posterity had a promise of salvation , as is already proved from amos 9. and if esau had been an absolute reprobate , the scripture would never have said , that isaac by faith blessed jacob and esau concerning things to come , heb. 9.20 . and that faith was the substance of things hoped for , and had a regard to the spiritual blessing of esau , and of his posterity ; for though jacob got the first blessing , yet esau got the second , and their two blessings did not differ in substance , but in some weighty circumstances of order and time ; and isaac prophesied in esau's blessing , that he should have the fatness of the earth , and dew of heaven ( the same but the order inverted with jacob's blessing ) and that in process of time he should be a free people , to wit , in gospel days , signified by these words , gen. 27.40 . and it shall come to pass , when thou shalt have dominion , to wit , in christ , in gospel days , in thy posterity , that thou shalt break his yoke from off thy neck . and so we find that divers ( mark 3.8 . ) idumeans , that were of esau , followed jesus ; and jacob's putting on esau's goodly rayment , signified how in gospel days , the true believers of jacob , and esau , should become one body of a gospel-church , and in this body they of esau should be as hands , but the voice is jacob's , that is , the word of god , in the preaching of the gospel , should be sounded out of jacob's line , to wit , from the prophets and apostles , who were of jacob. and there is no ground from scripture , that esau , as to his person , was not saved ; yea , luther , and moller , and oecolampadius , all famous protestants in their day , judge rather that he was saved ; and the whole passage of jacob and esau , beside , that it hath its historical fulfilling , is a figure of two inward seeds and births , none of which are reprobated , but the other preferred . but if some alledge heb. 12.17 . to prove that absolutely esau was rejected , and did perish , because it s said , he found no place of repentance , though he sought it carefully with tears . i answer , that doth not prove his final rejection , but only that he could not be heard to have that first blessing recalled , which was already given to jacob. 6. where now shall these men find any place in scripture to prove , that there are any reprobate infants ? or that any infants dying in infancy go to hell , and perish eternally , only for adam's sin , although that sin was forgiven to adam , and thousands more equally guilty , by their own confession ? if they shall alledge , as some do , that place in 1 cor. 7.14 . for the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife ( viz. that believeth ) and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband , else were your children unclean , but now are they holy . yet this cannot prove their intention : for they dare not confidently say , that all infants of believing parents are elected , otherwise they must say , that esau was elected , both whose parents were bellevers . although some in church-covenant have gloried , that none of their children , while infants , were reprobates , because they were in covenant , and yet at that same time pleading that esau was a reprobate in his mother's belly , forgetting that both esau's parents were more holy than they . and if any further urge , if there be no reprobate infants , that then all infants are sanctified and holy , both the children of unbelieving parents , as well as of believers . i answer ; it doth not follow by any necessary consequence , although to admit of that consequence , is much more tollerable , than to say , that any infants perish eternally , only for adam's sin. and as for the general state of infants , and how they are particularly disposed of immediately after death , who die in infancy , seemeth a great depth , and is a great mystery , and is best known unto the lord : for it is generally granted , that god hath his way to reach to infants , and deal with them , both in the womb , and upon the mothers breasts ; and therefore let us leave secret things unto god , until he reveal them , and be satisfied with what he hath revealed . now this is plainly revealed , and declared in the scriptures , that the condemnation is not simply that adam sinned , or his posterity in , and with him , but that light is come into the world , and men love darkness more than light : and as by the offence of one , to wit , the first adam , judgment is come upon all to condemnation ; even so by the righteousness on one , to wit , christ the second adam , the free gift is come upon all to justification of life . and tho' men generally are by nature , children of wrath ( if it should be granted or allowed , that by nature , signifieth their natural condition , as they are born into the world ) yet by the great mercy , grace and favour of god , they all have an opportunity or possibility to be converted , and become the children of god. and what that holiness or cleanness is , that the children of one , or both the believing parents have , is a great mystery , i am sure to many who have that scripture place oft in their mouths , and greatly glory in it , that they are in church-covenant , and therefore they are holy , and their children ; also some call it federal or covenant holiness , but what is it they know not , whether it be any real thing , or principle of holiness , lodged or placed in their children , more than in the children of others that are not in their church-covenant , they dare not affirm ; for many , yea , very many children of professed christians of all sorts , when they grow up to youth , are as unholy , and sometimes worse , as the children of unbelievers . but that children generally either of believers , or unbelievers , are actually sanctified from the womb , or in the womb , cannot be proved from scripture , or any observation that we can make . it is recorded as a rare and great thing , that john the baptist was sanctified from the mother's womb , and the like of jeremiah , and so perhaps may be gathered of moses , or some others , but these rare and singular examples , rather prove , that children are not in general , actually and de facto holy from the womb ; and therefore that holiness of children , mentioned 1 cor. 7. must only signifie some more near capacity in them , than in others , to become actually holy in time to come , and that not of all children after the flesh , but the children of promise , as paul distinguisheth these two sorts of children of the same parents , rom. 9.8 . but who are the children of the flesh , and who are the children of the promise ? tho' it be well known unto god from the beginning , yet commonly it is not known unto men , until they discover themselves by their works and fruits . 7. as concerning the general state of mankind by means of adams fall , what the scripture saith of it , is readily believed and granted , and it is safest in all things , to keep to scripture words , especially in all cases and matters that are in controversie . for the scripture is a rich treasury or store-house , sufficient to afford us words whereby to express our faith in all matters of christian doctrin ; and it is not safe to leave the scripture-words , and go to words of mans wisdom , and thereby to declare our faith of christian doctrin . now the scripture saith that in adam all die , 1 cor. 15.22 and rom. 5.12 . that by one man sin entred into the world , and death by sin , and so death passed upon all men ; for that all have sinned : and that christ hath died for all men , proveth that all men were dead , as paul argueth the case . and david , though he was the son of a good father , yet bewailed the state wherein he was conceived and born , psal . 51.5 . behold i was shapen in iniquity , and in sin did my mother conceive me . and that under moses law , an offering was to be offered up for the mother and the child , ( levit. 12.4 , 5 , 6. ) when it was born , and that the mother should be unclean so many days after the birth of the child , doth certainly signifie a seed , or principle of sin and corruption , to be conveyed from the parents to the children , in the ordinary way of generation , and that the menstruous humour was held in scripture to be such a filthy and unclean thing , which is called , the fountain of her blood , levit. 20.18 . hath the same signification ; also , the circumcision of children on the eighth day . and it s said in job 25.4 . how can man be justified with god , or how can he be clean , that is born of a woman ? to wit , in the ordinary way of generation . and here the natural state of man is declared , before his spiritual regeneration in christ jesus : and though that was said by bildad , one of job's friends , yet it is confirmed by job himself , chap. 14.4 . who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean ? not one . but this seed , or principle of sin and corruption , is not charged or imputed unto men , until they joyn and consent unto it , and actually obey it , as is clear from rom. 5.13 . for until the law , sin was in the world , but sin is not imputed when there is no law. now , when is it that there is no law , but in the time of infancy , wherein children are not capable of any law , or of doing good or evil , any more than when in the womb ? for until children begin to have the use and exercise of their reasonable understanding , so as to know the right hand from the left ( according to jonah 4.11 . ) they cannot be understood to be under the law. but to say , that any infants are eternally damned for that first sin , and without any actual sin , or transgression of theirs committed in their own body , is expresly contrary to scripture , that saith , the soul that sinneth shall die ; and every one shall receive according to the deeds done in the body , good or evil ; and he that soweth to the flesh , shall reap corruption , as he that soweth to the spirit shall reap incorruption , and life eternal . and therefore none shall finally perish , or be lost , for that first sin , according to scripture , but for their actual disobedience here in this world , and their final unbelief and impenitency . for as concerning the judgment and punishment of the first sin , it was immediately inflicted after the fall , to wit , the death of all in adam . but christ the second adam , by his death , for all that died in adam , doth give unto all his free gift , that cometh upon all unto justification of life ; and thus the plaister is as broad as the sore , and the medicine as universal as the disease ; and it is not simply the sin or disease , but the refusing and rejecting the medicine and physician , that is the cause of any mans final destruction . and how , or in what manner adam's children and posterity were concerned in that first sin , whether only by imputation , as some say , or by real participation , as others say , the wise in heart may easily judge : let it suffice at present , to say , that adam's children , being his branches , and he their root , they do really partake with him both in the defilement , and also in the promised seed , in order to their restoration ; for when god said to adam , in the day thou eatest thereof , thou shalt surely die ; his children and posterity were included . so when god said , i will put enmity between thee ( to wit ; the serpent ) and the woman , and between thy seed and her seed , it shall bruise thy head , and thou shalt bruise his heel : their children and posterity are equally included ; for adam , after his fall , being restored and made an holy root , as is generally acknowledged , as paul declareth , if the root be holy , so are the branches ; and if the first fruit be holy , the lump is also holy . and as god promised unto noah , and to his sons , gen. 9.8 . and behold i establish my covenant with you , and with your seed after you . his branches are holy with him , to wit , not actually , but by having a seed , or principle of holiness put in them , derived from christ the second adam , who is that promised seed , whereby they are made capable of becoming holy , by improving the same ; and this is that federal holyness which all the children of adam and noah have , that is , all mankind , which is more encreased or diminished ( but not totally abolished in any ) as the immediate parents are found more or less actually holy ; for the more that any sin , that noble seed and principle of holiness both in them , and in their children , is the more clouded and vailed , every sin that a man committeth , until it be purged and done away , being a vail over that noble seed . and god renewed the promise to abraham , to make him the father of all nations and families of the earth , and that in him they all should be blessed , and in his seed ; not that this should be fulfilled by his being their father , according to the flesh , or in the way of carnal generation ; but through christ , who is the seed of abraham , by whom the blessing and grace of god was to come upon all . ( rom. 4.16 , 17. ) and in this respect abraham is called the father of us all , as it is written , i have made thee a father of many nations , before him whom he believed , god quickening the dead , and calling the things which were not , as though they were ; to wit , the dead in adam , are all in due time quickned by christ , the promised seed of abraham , that they may all become the children of abraham , through faith in christ jesus ; for by virtue of christ's death , and the promise made to adam , noah and abraham , these three general fathers , all adam's posterity , are holy in a scripture sense , not actually , but in capacity to become actually holy , through the holy seed given unto them , and put into them , as they come to close and joyn with it in true faith and obedience : and this doth well answer to peter's vision , whereby all manner of four footed beasts of the earth , and wild beasts , and creeping things , and fowls of the air , which god had cleansed , all nations of adam are understood , acts 10.12 , 13 , 14 , 15. chap. vi. more particularly and largely concerning the way of restoration by jesus christ , his dying for all , and giving unto all sufficiency of grace , and means of salvation , whereby they may be saved . according to the testimony of the holy scriptures , jesus christ is the saviour of all men , but especially of them that believe 1 tim. 4.10 . and he is called the saviour of the world , john 4.42 . and the saviour of the body , ephes . 5.23 . and that he hath dyed for all men , is the express testimony of the holy scriptures in divers places , 2 cor. 5.14 , 15. for the love of christ constraineth us , because we thus judge , that if one dyed for all , then were all dead ; and that he dyed for all , that they which live , should not henceforth live unto themselves , but unto him which died for them , 1 tim. 2.4 , 5 , 6. god will have all men to be saved , and to come unto the knowledge of the truth ; for there is one god , and one mediator between god and men , the man christ jesus , who gave himself a ransom for all , to be testified in due time , heb. 2.9 . that he by the grace of god should taste death for every man , 1 john 2.2 . he is the propitiation for our sins , and not for ours only , but for the sins of the whole world. but it is commonly alledged by the adversaries of truth , that by all in these places is understood , not all particulars , but some of all sorts , or all the elect . to this i answer ; the word all must needs be as full and universal , with respect to christs death , and the benefit of it , as it is with respect to adam's fall , because the scripture maketh a plain parallel betwixt all that die in adam , and all that christ died for , as in that fore-cited place , 2 cor. 5.14 . if one dyed for all , then all were dead : now if all only signifie some , in the first part of the verse , the sense must run thus , if one dyed for some or a few , then all were dead : this quite maketh void the apostles inference ; for if christ only dyed for some , then only some were dead , and not all . again , in rom. 5.18 . the parallel is very plain , as by the offence of one , judgment is come upon all , unto condemnation , even so by the righteousness of one , the free gift is come upon all , unto justification of life ; not that all are actually justified , but the free gift is come upon them , that they may be justified ; and so it is , that the two sides or parts of parallels are of equal extent . beside that , the word ( all ) in scripture doth most commonly signifie all particulars ; and therefore to restrict it , in respect of gods grace and mercy through christ , savours of a narrow spirit , and this narrowness of spirit in presbyterians and independents is a great evil in them , and maketh them so peevish , uncharitable and cruel . 2. and whereas they object against christ his dying for all men , because he said , he did not pray for the world , and therefore he did not die for the world , john 17.9 . i pray for them , i pray not for the world. it may be very well granted , that he dyed not for the world which he doth not pray for : but what world is that ? it is not any part of mankind , as they are considered , when first born into the world , and having had a time to live in the world , and a day of visitation , wherein they might have repented , and have been converted unto god ; but as having finally rejected the great mercy and grace of christ , after many tenders and offers of it , until that the lord hath wholly left striving with him , by his spirit in their hearts , and then they become reprobates , and that world whereof christ spoke when he said , he prayed not for the world. and therefore it ought to be well noted and considered , that when it is said , christ dyed for the sins of the world , it is only with respect to sins past , or any other sins that men may commit before the precise time and period of gods leaving them , and ceasing any more to strive with them , when they are become perfected , so to speak in sin and evil , and are as the ripe tares , fit for burning , having nothing remaining in them of any tenderness , simplicity or sincerity , or true love to god or man ; no grain of goodness or virtue , nay , not the least seed , but are wholly become as dross , after all the precious mettal , to the least grain , is extracted or separated from it ; for such , i say , christ hath neither dyed nor prayed . and thus it may be with many , and is with many before they die ; and concerning these , john declared , saying , there is a sin unto death , i do not say that he shall pray for it , 1 joh. 5.16 . and this is that sin of final unbelief and obstinate impenitency , wherein men may be permitted to live , some considerable time , before they die . and this is no contradiction , nor inconsistency , but serveth greatly to clear the understanding of this weighty matter , how christ hath dyed for all men , within a day or time of grace , and yet hath dyed for none of these men , after they have wilfully neglected that day of grace , and resisted the spirit of grace , until he did altogether leave and forsake them . and also it is to be considered , that though christ hath dyed for all men , within a day or time of grace and mercy , beyond which time they have not the benefit of his death , and there remaineth no more sacrifice for sin unto them ; yet he hath not died with the same equal intention and degree of love , kindness and good-will , for them who finally perish , as for them who are saved ; nor are the gracious providences of god , and his dealings both inwardly and outwardly after the same way and manner towards all : and therefore all who shall be saved at the end of the world , have very great and unspeakable cause to praise god , for his more abundant mercy , grace and love towards them in christ jesus , and that he , and not they , did make them to differ from others ; & yet none that perish , can have any just cause to complain against god ; for when that that is sufficient is given to them , they have no cause to complain . but all who are saved , god is pleased at one time or another , that suiteth with his infinite wisdom and good pleasure , so to draw , perswade , move and incline them to come unto him , and when come , so to preserve them with him , and in him , or if at any time he suffer them to depart , infallibly to reclaim them , before the end , that they shall certainly be saved ; and this the lord can well do , so as to put a difference betwixt cattel and cattel , or men and men , without their observation , and so as neither to give unto the one any occasion of presumption , nor unto the other , of despair , and without giving any greater measure of inward grace , ( although he may and oft doth give a greater measure to one than to another ; for he is free to give of his own , as he pleaseth ) but only by suitable providences and dispensations , and means of his own chusing ; the one may be taken , and the other left , the one gained and saved , and the other not , the inward grace being the same , both in kind and degree , in some that are saved , and in some that are not , as the parable of the pounds and marks plainly declare , every servant had his pound or mark , which is an equal sum , and some improved it , and some not . and of this more abundant love of god towards paul , he himself taketh special notice , with great thanksgiving unto god , 1 tim. 1.14 , 16. and the grace of our lord was exceeding abundant , with faith and love , which is in christ jesus — howbeit , for this cause i obtained mercy , that in me first jesus christ might shew forth all long-suffering , for a pattern to them ; which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting . and the like notice he taketh of the great love of god towards the believing ephesians and thessalonians , for his chusing them , and so for all other believers of all other churches and people , that god had chosen them from the beginning ; and for this , he said , he laboured , and endured all things , even for the sake of the elect , that they might be saved , 2 tim. 2.10 . and as it is the great work and end of all faithful ministers , to gather gods elect , every where scattered , so of the angels , mat. 24.31 . and so also of christ jesus according to john 6.39 . cap. 10.27 , 28 , 29. isa . 43.5 , 6 , 7 , 8. rom. 11.7 . and thus we find a great difference betwixt some that were invited to come to the supper , who when they refused , were no more called , but sentence passed against them , that they should not taste of the supper , and others that were compelled to come in , luke 14.23 , 24. not by using any violent compulsion , but by infallible perswasions and motions of his spirit of love and grace , that shall infallibly prevail with them . nor doth this give to any man the least occasion either to presume or despair , as by saying , either i am elected , or not ; if not elected , i cannot be saved , for that doth not follow ; and yet it is most true , that either a man shall be saved , or he shall not , being contradictory propositions , whereof the one is always true , and the other not . but this doth not infer , that he who shall not be saved , could not be saved . and seeing no man certainly knoweth , that he shall not , before he discover it by his final impenitency , therefore it is the wisdom of every man to improve , with all diligence , that inward grace , and all outward means and helps afforded him , the which if he do , according to his ability , he shall infallibly be saved . and though it is most true , that there is a certain number elected in christ jesus , the elect head and foundation , and corner stone , living and precious , that is infallibly known unto god , which make up a compleat , intire and perfect body ; yet seeing none knoweth that great mystery , who is in any danger to abuse it , it is great folly for any man to presume , that he is safe , or upon a bare supposition , which can infer no positive conclusion , to resolve to be in any respect negligent : and he that by the grace of god , doth know both his calling and election , that knowledge hath its proper tendency to make him the more diligent , to abound in all due obedience and thankfulness , which is the only way to retain the knowledge of it , after it is once obtained : and the said above-mentioned dilemma is as idle and foolish , as who would argue , i shall live for a month or year to come , or i shall not ; if i shall not , i need take no care to save my life , seeing i shall die ; if i shall , i need take no care , for without taking care i shall live ; for seeing both these parts of the argument are but hypothetical , they can infer no positive conclusion . but as to a mans salvation , the only safe and sure way of arguing is this , if i use the grace and means that god hath given me , i shall infallibly be saved ; and if i do not use them , i have no ground to expect that i shall , and therefore let me with all diligence that is possible make use of them . but the doctrin of absolute reprobation , that maketh salvation , or the effectual use of the means absolutely impossible to many thousands , yea , as they say , to the greatest part of mankind , is a most woful and miserable discouragement unto people . 3. the lord jesus christ , by means of his death , hath procured unto all men , both jews , and gentiles , as the fruit and effect of his death , an inward principle of divine grace , light , life and power , that is the free gift of god unto them , in the hearts of all men , together with subordinate and concurring outward means and helps , more or less , but sufficient unto all men , whereby they may be saved one time or another , before the end of the world ; and the ordinary outward means of salvation is the preaching of the gospel of our lord jesus christ , even jesus of nazareth , that was crucified for our sins , and rose again for our justification , by qualified men ; or failing of them , by reading , or hearing read the holy scriptures , by which , after a sort , the prophets & apostles preach unto all men ; or failing of these outward means , god supplying them by his inward teachings and revelations in mens hearts , and some other secret ways and manners of his divine providences , dealings and dispensations unknown to most men : for the proof of the first part , see rom. 5.18 . therefore as by the offence of one , judgment came upon all men , to condemnation ; even so by the righteousness of one , the free gift is come upon all men unto justification of life : the which righteousness of one , is the active and passive obedience of our lord jesus christ , by which the free gift is come upon all . the which free gift is called grace , and the gift of righteousness , and is expressed in this chapter by four sundry greek words in the greek text , as charis , charisma , dorea dorema , all very significant ; see further john 1.9 . he was that true light that lighteth every man that cometh into the world. and he is called , the light of men , john 1.4 . and john 8.12 . i am the light of the world , he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness , but shall have the light of life . and tit. 2.11 , 12. for the grace of god that bringeth salvation hath appeared unto all men , teaching us to deny vngodliness , &c. and verse 13. looking for that blessed hope , and the glorious appearing of that great god , and our saviour jesus christ . ephes . 3.6 . that the gentiles should be fellow . heirs , and of the same body , and partakers of his promise in christ , by the gospel . col. 1.26 , 27. the mystery which hath been hid from ages and generations , but now is made manifest to his saints , to whom god would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery in the gentiles , which is christ in you , the hope of glory . and rom. 10.8 . the word is nigh thee , in thy mouth , and in thy heart ; and that is the word of faith which we preach . and verse 6 , 7. he understandeth it of christ , which moses preached in the people of israel , deut. 30.14 . and because this great mystery , which was in the gentiles , was much hid in the time of the law , and in all ages of the world , until christ came in the flesh both in jews and gentiles , as paul called it , the mystery hid from ages and generations ; therefore the psalmist , psal . 67.2 . prayeth , saying , that thy way may be known upon earth , thy saving health ( or thy jesus , hebr ) in all nations . for he saw that it was in them , but as it were hid , and vailed , according to the weakness and darkness of that dispensation ; and therefore he prayed unto god , that it might be made known ; and therefore as the grace or gift of christ is in all men , so he , who is the fountain and root of it , from whom his grace cannot be separate , is in all men , to save them , within a day of visitation , or salvation ; for christ is in all men but reprobates , according to 2 cor. 13.6 . and none are reprobates , until christ have left them , and given them up to final impenitency and hardness of heart . and for a proof of the second part , see 1 cor. 1.21 . for after that , in the wisdom of god , the world by wisdom knew not god ; it pleased god by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe : see further , verse 22 , 23 , 24 , 25. and rom. 16.26 . john 20.31 . 4. and because of this universal grace and love of god to all men , and that christ is freely given of the father to be a saviour unto all men ; therefore christ hath commanded that his gospel should be preached unto all nations , without exception of any ; and did also prophecy and fore-tell , that the gospel of the kingdom should be preached in all the world , for a witness unto all nations , before the end of the world ; and because he , who cannot lie , hath said it , we are bound to believe , it shall be fulfilled , that so all mankind may be accountable to the man christ jesus , at the day of judgment , either to be rewarded , or punished by him , as they shall be found having obeyed , or disobeyed his glorious gospel , that hath been preached unto them , both inwardly and outwardly unto many , if not unto all , but inwardly , to be sure unto all . 5. this divine grace of our lord jesus christ , in the hearts of all men , hath had its various dispensations and manifestations , according to the several ages of the world , and the several states and conditions of men in it , both among jews , gentiles and christians ; and especially both in the gentiles , and in the body of the jews and people of israel ( excepting the prophets , and others peculiarly favoured of god ) the principle it self was but little made known , or revealed , in respect of the great worth of it , and the great virtue , power and glory that was in it , god in his infinite wisdom reserving the more full discovery and revelation of it to the time after christ his coming in the flesh , and death , resurrection , and ascension ; yet so much was discovered of it , and so much good fruit it brought forth , in the true lovers and improvers of it , as by means whereof , they were accepted of god in that day through christ jesus . 6. whoever were perfectly justified , and saved in any place or family of the world , or nation , people , or faculty , they were saved only and alone by the lord jesus christ of nazareth , even the man christ jesus , who dyed for them , & rose again ; for there is no other name given under heaven , whereby men can be saved , but by that name , to wit , by the lord jesus christ of nazareth , who was crucified and raised again , acts 4.10 , 11 , 12. but here some will readily object , how could any of the gentiles be justified or saved by the man christ jesus , and by virtue of his death and resurrection , who never heard of him , & never had the mystery of it revealed unto them , & consequently had not faith in christ crucified , and risen again ? and upon this head the adversaries of truth , both presbyterian , independent and baptist teachers , have taken great occasion , to cry out against the people , called in scorn quakers , that their religion is only paganism , and not christianity , because they say , that heathens or pagans can be saved by their giving obedience to the light within them , without having christ crucified , and raised again , outwardly preached unto them . but these adversaries of truth little consider what hypocrites they discover themselves to be , in this very charge , when they make that a crime in others , which they judge no crime in themselves ; for they themselves hold , that there are not only elect infants , dying in infancy , who are regenerated , and saved by christ through the spirit , who worketh when , where , and how he pleaseth ; but other elect persons , regenerated and saved by christ , who are uncapable of being outwardly called by the word ; citing luke 18.15 , 16. john 3.3 , 5. john 3.8 . john 5.8 . see cap. 10. sect. 3. of the westminster-confession , owned by the new-england churches , and printed by them at boston . and what they say of infants , and other elect persons , who are uncapable of being outwardly called by the word , that they are regenerated , and saved by christ through the spirit , who worketh when , where , and how he pleaseth ; the same , these called quakers say , concerning the honest and faithful gentiles , who were obedient to the light of christ in them , and were not outwardly called by the word , or by outward preaching ; yea , and were uncapable of being outwardly called , when living in such remote places and ages of the world , where the outward preaching never came within their reach . for as a deaf man is uncapable of hearing a mans voice , so is a man that hath his hearing ( to wit , the faculty or sense of hearing ) uncapable of hearing the voice of a man , that is at a greater distance than his hearing can reach it . and seeing they plainly confess , that there are such elect persons in the world , not only infants , but these come to age , who are regenerated , and saved by christ through the spirit , who worketh when , where , and how he pleaseth , as their words are , ( and the words are true , and a good use can be made of them against themselves , who have confessed them ) then let them forever be ashamed to cry out any more against the honest people , called quakers , for saying , these honest gentiles , who have not heard of christ outwardly preached unto them , belonging to god's election , are saved by christ , and regenerated through the spirit of christ . and if the spirit work when , where , and how he pleaseth , to wit , both in infants , and persons at age , who are not outwardly called by the word , or uncapable of being so called , then let them recal and condemn their false doctrin , that saith , god hath committed his counsel wholly to writing ; and the former ways of god's revealing his will unto his people are now ceased , and there is no new revelation : as they have expresly , and without any reserve or exception , affirmed , cap. 1. sect . 1. and sect . 6. for if god hath committed his counsel wholly to writing , then nothing of his counsel is extant , where that writing is not extant . and if all divine revelation be ceased , then neither infants , nor other persons , who are uncapable of being outwardly called by the word , have any divine revelation , or inward call by the spirit : or if infants , and other persons belonging to god's election , be inwardly called , and renewed by the spirit , then god hath not committed his counsel wholly to writing , nor are all the ways of god's revealing his will to men ceased : for by their own confession , it is revealed to all elect persons , who are uncapable of being outwardly called by the word , the spirit working in them , when , where , and how he pleaseth . 7. but whether any are , or can be saved or justified , without the express knowledge and faith of christ crucified , and risen again , is one question ; and whether without all outward hearing of christ crucified , outwardly preached unto them , is another question : for without all outward preaching of men , the mystery of christ crucified can be revealed , and preached inwardly to men by the spirit of god , and by the same spirit , faith can be wrought in them by that inward hearing , as these men confess . and though it may seem hard and difficult , to prove that all honest gentiles , who did by nature ( to wit , by the principle of the divine nature implanted into the true nature of men ) the things contained in the law , had that express knowledge and faith of christ crucified , and raised again ; yet it is more hard and difficult unto them , who affirm they had it not , to prove it , seeing the spirit , who worketh when , and where , and how he pleaseth , might reveal it unto them ; and that they grant , the spirit doth work in all elect persons , who are not outwardly called by the word , and doth regenerate and save them by christ. and to the further clearing of this matter we are to consider , that the work of salvation is not a thing that is commonly done in an instant , but hath its gradual steps , its beginning , progress and finishing , even as faith it self hath ; for as at the first instant of a man's sincere believing , he is en●●ed into a state of salvation , so as his faith groweth , his salvation doth gradually encrease and grow with it , the which salvation is not only a salvation from wrath to come , or from hell fire and torment , but is a salvation from sin , and from under the power of darkness , and from all ignorance , and error , and darkness of understanding , and a thorow renewing into the image of god , and bringing man into conformity unto the image of the son of god , the heavenly and second adam : and the true knowledge of christ , and of god the father , being a part of the image of god , that is to be renewed in them that are to be saved , according to col. 3.10 . and have put on the new man , which is renewed in knowledge , after the image of him that created him . therefore it doth necessarily follow , that perfect salvation , in the full extent of it , cannot be had without the full and perfect knowledge of christ , the which full and perfect knowledge of christ , is to know him , both as he is that eternal word , and son of god , the only begotten of the father , who was with the father before the world was , by whom all things were made , and as he is god manifest in the flesh , justified in the spirit , &c. to wit , christ crucified and raised , which paul calleth the great mystery of godliness : and that both salvation and faith is gradual , and hath its steps and progress , beginning , growth and perfection , is very clear , both from the scriptures testimony , and the saints experience ▪ for paul writing to the believing philippians , exhorted them to work out their salvation with fear and trembling , 2 philip. 12. so , though they were entred into a state of salvation , through faith in christ , yet it was not perfected in them , but was to be further wrought out ; and to encourage them in this great work , he told them , it was god which worketh in them , both to will and to do of his own good pleasure . and paul encouraged the believing romans , and also himself , saying , now is our salvation nearer than when we believed , rom. 13.11 . and the perfect salvation of souls is called the end of faith , 1 pet. 1.9 . and verse 10. of which salvation the prophets have enquired , and searched diligently , who prophecyed of the grace that should come unto you . verse 11. searching what , or what manner of time the spirit of christ , which was in them did signifie , when it testified before-hand the sufferings of christ , and the glory that should follow . and verse 13. wherefore gird up the loins of your mind , be sober , and hope to the end , for the grace that is to be brought unto you in the revelation of jesus christ ( so the greek hath , viz. enapokalepsei ) and philip. 1.6 . being confident of this very thing , that he which hath begun a good work in you , will perform it unto the day of jesus christ . and as the work of the outward creation , is distinguished into six days , and that a day of sabbath , or rest , which is the perfection : so the work of the inward creation , which is the creating men anew in christ jesus , by way of analogy , may be said to have its six days , and then the spiritual sabbath , or rest , according to heb. 4.9 . there remaineth therefore a sabbath to the people of god. and verse 11. for he that is entred into his rest , hath ceased from his own works , as god did from his . and verse 11. let us labour therefore to enter into that rest , &c. where its plain , the writer doth hint at the said analogy . now though it ought to be granted , that the knowledge and faith of christ crucified and raised again , doth belong to the finishing and perfecting of the saints salvation , yet it is most clear and plain from scripture , that it doth not universally belong to the beginning of it . for we can prove most clearly from scripture , that the good work of god , even the work of salvation was begun in them , who had not that knowledge and faith of christ crucified ; as first , to instance in nathaniel , of whom christ gave a noble testimony , behold an israelite indeed , in whom is no guile , john 1.47 . and yet at that time he had not faith in jesus of nazareth , as being come in the flesh , but reasoned or questioned , saying , can any good thing come out of nazareth ? philip saith unto him , come and see , &c. next , to instance in the disciples of christ , who for sometime , after they had followed him , and that peter had confessed to him , that he was the son of god , and that christ had told him , his father had revealed it to him ; yet the mystery of his death and resurrection was for all that hid from him , and the rest of them : for this , see mark 9.31 . for he taught his disciples , and said unto them , the son of man is delivered into the hands of men , and they shall kill him , and after that he is killed , he shall rise the third day . and verse 32. but they understood not that saying , and were afraid to ask him . see again , luke 9.43 . but that instance of cornelius is a most manifest and clear demonstration of this truth : for this cornelius was a gentile , and uncircumcised , and therefore no proselite of the covenant to be sure ; and though some alledge , that he was a proselite of the gate ( according to that distinction that was among the jews of a two fold sort of proselites , one of the covenant , that received circumcision and the law , another of the gate , that did not receive circumcision ) yet this is but barely alledged without all proof . but if he was a proselite of the gate , it is certain at that time , when the angel was sent unto him , he had no express knowledge , nor faith of christ crucified , for that was the thing , which peter was sent to preach unto him , by hearing of which he was to receive the holy ghost , and be saved ; for the angel told him , that peter should speak words to him , by which he and all his house should be saved ; see acts 11.14 . now altho' at that time , when the angel appeared unto him , cornelius had no knowledge nor faith of christ crucified , yet he was in a good estate ; and well were it for many called christians , that they were in as good estate as he then was in : when the angel appeared to him , he told him , that his prayers , and his alms were come up for a memorial before god , acts 10.4 . and it is said of him , verse 2. he was a devout man , and one that feared god , with all his house , which gave much alms to the people , and prayed unto god alway . and with respect to this , peter began his preaching , saying , acts 10.34 , 35. of a truth , i perceive that god is no respecter of persons , but in every nation he that feareth him , and worketh righteousness , is accepted of him . now who dare be so bold to say , cornelius at this time had no real and true beginning of salvation , or of saving grace and faith , before peter did preach christ crucified & raised again unto him ? for although cornelius had not at that time faith in christ crucified , yet he had ( without all question ) faith in god , and in the word of god that was in his heart , and that word was christ in him , though the mystery of christ was not fully revealed unto him at that time , and in that state he was accepted of god , & yet not for his works sake , but for christ . and therefore , men may have a beginning of true faith , and of a true work of salvation begun in them , when the mystery of christ crucified , and raised again , is not revealed unto them . for that mystery ( being so great as it is ) was not in that day , to wit , before christ came and suffered in the flesh , preached , as one of the first and most necessary things to be first known and believed , as without the faith and knowledge of which no man could be in any degree blessed , otherwise , when christ began to preach , he would have preached it as one of the first things ; and when he sent his disciples to preach the gospel , before he suffered death , he would have given them an express commission to preach it to all people , how he was to be crucified , and raised again the third day , but the mystery of it at that time they knew not , and therefore could not preach it then : nor did he preach it himself , when he began his ministry , nor for a considerable time afterward● until the time drew near that he was to suffer . in all that excellent sermon of his on the mount , not one title or word doth he mention of his death and resurrection expresly , but he taught the law and the prophets , and expounded the spirituality of the law , in its extent , far beyond the reach and conception which the people had of it at that time , and withal dropped some evangelical precepts unto them , and taught them the right way of prayers , fasting and alms , and pronounced them blessed , that hungred and thirsted after righteousness , and were poor in spirit , that were merciful , that were meek , and peace-makers , and that mourned , &c. and suffered for righteousness sake . and therefore it may be very safely concluded , that the express knowledge and faith of christ crucified , is not of absolute and indispensible necessity ( especially where it hath not been preached , nor revealed ) unto the beginning of a man's salvation , although it is really of absolute and indispensible necessity unto the finishing and perfecting of it , because , as hath been already said , our inward renewing unto god , when perfected , in us , is a renewing us perfectly , and not in part only , into the image of god ; and a part of that perfect image , is the perfect knowledge of god , and of jesus christ , whom to know is life eternal ; and that perfect knowledge requireth men to know him , as he came in the flesh , and died , and rose again , which is that great mystery of godliness , as paul called it , 1 tim. 3.16 . but if these men , who own that said confession of faith , enquire , whether all these honest gentiles that lived in the world , or do now live in the world , who have not had christ crucified , outwardly preached unto them , but were diligent to frame their lives , according to the light that was in them , died in a state of salvation ? i say , yea , they did ; and this i may the rather say , according to their own doctrin . for what if they had not the perfect knowledge and faith of christ crucified , when they lived ? yet they might have it at their death , to wit , in the passing through the valley of the shadow of death , according to psal . 23.4 . even when they are not able to demonstrate unto the living , what is then revealed unto them ? and as it is in job 33.22 , 23 , 24. when a mans soul draweth near unto the grave , and his life to the destroyers , there may be a messenger with him , an interpreter , one of a thousand , to show unto man his vprightness , then he is gracious unto him , and saith , deliver him from going down to the pit ; i have found a ransom , or attonement ; see the hebr. or margin of the english bible . or if i should say , they receive this perfect knowledge of christ after death , it is according to your doctrin , who say , the souls of the righteous ( generally or universally ) after death ( note , after death ) being then made perfect in holiness , are received into the highest heavens , &c. these are the express words of your catechism , cap. 32. sect . 1. but when , and how , or at what precise time these honest gentiles , who used their greatest diligence to frame their lives according to the light that is in them , and yet have not had the death , and resurrection of christ outwardly preached unto them , when they then lived in the world , is not my present business to determine : it doth suffice , that i have demonstrated from scripture , that men have been in a state of salvation , and acceptance with god , who have not had the mystery of christ , his death and resurrection , made known unto them ; and surely , these men continuing faithful to what they had received , when they died , could not perish . for it is impossible that any man , who hath the work of salvation really begun in him , though but as a child in knowledge , that holdeth fast the beginning of his confidence firm unto the end , can perish , heb. 3.14 . 8. and as concerning the diversity of the dispensations of the divine grace given unto men , in the several ages and places of the world , according to the several states and capacities of men in the world , the scriptures testimony is very plain and clear , which declareth both of the manifold grace , and manifold wisdom of god , 1 pet. 4.10 . ephes . 3. and ephes . 1.10 . paul mentioneth the dispensation of the fulness of time , as being the greatest , wi●h respect to the fore-going dispensations , before that fulness of time came ; and they may be distinguished , as paul doth distinguish them very plainly into three , to wit , diversity of operations , but one god ; and diversity of administrations , but one lord ; and diversity of gifts , but one spirit , 1 cor. 12.4 , 5 , 6. the operations belonging to the law , as inwardly dispensed , the administrations to the prophets , and to christ's coming in the flesh , and to the apostles , their preaching , both before and after christ was crucified , and rose again , and afterwards the gifts to the holy spirit , as they were the effect , and fruit of the apostles preaching , and the end of it : and according to the scripture , the first is that divine dispensation proper to men , as children , in the knowledge of god , and in virtue ; the second , to that which is proper to men , as in youth , or middle age ; the third as proper to men of full , or ripe age. and each of these dispensations may be said to have their proper and peculiar inward baptism , or spiritual washing ; the first being the baptism of the father ; the second being the baptism both of the father , and of the son ; the third being the baptism of the father , the son , and the holy ghost , which christ commanded his disciples to administer , after he rose from the dead , and gave the holy ghost , matth. 28.19 . which is not to be so understood , as if the three , to wit , the father , the son , and the holy ghost , did not work together in all these three dispensations ; for certainly they did ; but because in the first dispensation , god only was known as creator , and father of all mankind ; in the second , both the father and the son were known ▪ and in the third , the father , the son , and the holy ghost are known , and the mystery of the three , and of the more abundant divine grace that accompanieth this knowledge , largely opened and revealed . and though i say the first belonged to the law , as inwardly dispensed , yet that very dispensation of the law was not meerly legal , but had grace and mercy mixed with it : for no dispensation , without the grace and mercy of god , could have been in any respect serviceable unto men ; therefore the law , both as outwardly and inwardly administred , had always some measure of divine grace mixed with it ; and therefore in the second commandment , the substance of all the ten commandments , being commonly acknowledged to have been delivered by god himself to the gentiles , who had not the written law , god did reveal himself to be a gracious and merciful god , visiting the iniquities of the fathers upon the children , unto the third and fourth generation , but shewing mercy to thousands of them that love him , and keep his commandments . and as i have already proved from the express testimony of the holy scripture , by the obedience of one , to wit , the lord jesus , who dyed for all , the free gift and grace of god is come upon all unto justification of life , rom. 5.18 . and christ himself is the mystery hid in the gentiles , being that word of faith which moses preached in the jews , and paul in the romans , chap. 10. 9. and since it is so , that christ is really that light that doth lighten the gentiles , and is light in them , who have not heard him outwardly preached unto them , it is no less than real blasphemy ( though pardonable upon repentance ) to say , as the presbyterian and independent teachers of both old and new-england have said in their confession of faith , that the light in men , ( which they call , the light of nature ) that doth so far manifest the goodness , wisdom and power of god , as to leave men inexcusable , yet is not sufficient to give that knowledge of god , which is necessary unto salvation ; as they expresly affirm cap. 1. sect . 1. and cap. 10. sect . 4. they say expresly , men not professing the christian religion ( to wit , the faith of christ's death and resurrection ) cannot be saved , be they never so diligent to frame their lives according to the light that is in them ; which here again they call the light of nature . and as for the expression , the light of nature , it may be safely enough owned ( in a true scripture sense ) though not in the sense of them , who do so call it . for as christ is called the light of men in scripture , ( john 1.4 . in him was life , and the life was the light of men ) so he may be very well called the light of nature , to wit , lightning the dark nature of man ; and not only so , but quickning and sanctifying nature in all men , who joyn thereunto , and the word of god in the heart , james calleth it , ton emphuton logon , the innate word , i. e. put into the nature of men , which is able to save their souls . but the presbyterian and independent teachers of old and new-england , by the light of nature , mean only that it is some natural faculty of man's soul , as to say , his natural understanding , or his natural mind & conscience : and according to them , there is no other light , or principle of knowledge or virtue in man , generally and universally , nay , not in any who profess not the christian religion , though ever so diligent to frame their lives according to the light that is in them , as they expresly affirm ; and yet in manifest contradiction to their own doctrin , they have confessed , that persons elected , are saved by christ , and regenerated through the spirit , who are uncapable of being outwardly called by the word , cap. 10. sect . 3. 10. but that light that is in men generally ( within their day of visitation ) is not any natural faculty of man's soul , as to say his natural understanding or conscience is manifest ; 1 st because they do confess , that man by his fall is become dead in sin , and wholly defiled in all the faculties and parts of soul and body ; and indeed so he is , and his understanding is so darkned naturally , that he is called darkness ; and therefore he hath not any light that is left in him , as some call it the reliques of light left in him since the fall ; for if he did fall wholly , then no light was left in him , nor virtue , nor goodness , as they confess , cap. 9. sect . 3. that man is altogether averse from good . 2 dly , they confess , that all sin is a transgression of the righteous law of god , cap. 6. sect . 6. and therefore the gentiles , who have not the law outwardly delivered unto them , seeing they are sinners , do transgress against the righteous law of god ; now where is this righteous law , but in their hearts ? and this righteous law cannot be any natural faculty of fallen man , which they confess is wholly defiled and corrupted , and unholy , and unrighteous . 3 dly , they confess , that it is sufficient to leave men unexcusable , sect . 1. cap. 1. and therefore it is also sufficient to make men excusable , who are diligent to frame their life according to it ; and to say the contrary , is to contradict the very instinct of common justice that god hath put into mens hearts . 4 thly , the scripture saith , that some of the gentiles their thoughts did excuse them in well doing , as it did accuse them in evil doing , rom. 2.15 . 5 thly , the apostle paul doth plainly distinguish it from the conscience , rom. 2.15 . the true translation being , their conscience co-witnessing or bearing a joynt witness with that righteous law or principle . 6 thly , he calleth it the truth , and that which may be known of god , which god hath shewed unto them , which gave them the knowledge of god , and shewed them the goodness of god that leadeth to repentance ; and also gave them to know the judgment of god , and revealed the wrath of god from heaven against them : and because that many of them , who knew god , did not glorifie him as god , nor were thankful , therefore god gave them over to a reprobate mind ; and therefore they were not reprobates from the beginning , far less from all eternity , as these men alledg . and therefore any light or illumination that these gentiles had in them , or that any men have in them , is a new gift and grace of god , and gracious visitation of god unto them , as the apostle calleth it , rom. 5.18 . moreover , that god himself doth inwardly speak to men generally in their hearts , both in good men and bad , and is their teacher , and doth warn them , yea , and fore-warn them of evil and wrath to come , and doth reprove and convince them of sin , is the testimony of the holy scripture in many places ; see psal . 94.10 . psal . 50.1 , 16 , to 22. amos 4.13 . micah 6.8 . prov. 8.1 , 2 , 3 , 4. job 28.28 . chap. 24.13 . and 21.14 . and it is a place greatly worth noticing , luke 12.20 . god said unto him , thou fool , this night thy soul shall be required of thee . and where did god say thus to him , but in his heart ? and therefore it hath been the way of god , and ever will be to speak to men in their hearts , to call them , and warn , and fore-warn them of evil and danger , and to perswade and incline them to that which is good : and they who deny this , as they belye god , and say , it is not the lord that speaketh , and calleth to men in their hearts ; so they do a great injury and wrong unto men , who instead of turning them to god's teachings in their hearts , turn them away from them ; and they do ill deserve so great wages of the people , so to turn away the ears of the people from god's inward teachings in their hearts , and from the word of his grace , which is able to save their souls . and to conclude , although the dispensations of the divine grace be various , and may be variously distinguished into a more or less number , yet god and christ , and the holy spirit are one , and the one author of all these various dispensations ; and who-ever is faithful unto god in any of them , is accepted in christ , and for christ's sake , and not otherwise . and though the last , which is the pure and perfect christian and gospel dispensation , is far more excellent , and far surpassing either that among the gentiles , who had not the outward law , or that among the jews and people of israel , who had the outward law , and the prophets , yet every one of them had their glory in their day , and that inward divine dispensation that is now among the gentiles , who have not christ as yet outwardly preached unto them , hath its glory and great service and blessing to them who are faithful to god in it ; and such who continue faithful therein to the end , shall never perish ; and though it be not purely and throughly christian and evangelical , but rather more legal , yet it is also partly christian and evangelical , and the pure gospel dispensation is hid within it , as a wheel within a wheel , or as the most holy place was hid within the outer court , and there , to wit , in that first dispensation , christ , as it were , lieth as in swadling cloathes : and though the jews do not know him as he is there , yet such as the wise men from the east , do both know and honour him , as the king of the jews , yea , as king and lord , both of heaven and earth , who is in all , and through all , and over all , blessed forever , amen . chap. vii . concerning justification , and the nature of true faith , whether assurance is of the nature of it . 1. when the scripture saith , god justifieth the vngodly , rom. 4.5 . it is not to be understood that he doth justifie them in their ungodliness , but from it ; as the like manner of speech is used , acts 13.39 . and by him all that believe , are justified from all things , from which ye could not be justified by the law of moses . for seeing , according to the law of god , he that justifieth the wicked is an abomination to the lord , prov. 17.15 . god himself can do no such thing , as to justifie a wicked or ungodly man in his ungodliness . 2. as it is only the true believer , who hath faith in christ jesus , whom god justifieth ; so it is only he who is truly sanctified , and regenerated or born again of the spirit of god , whom god doth justifie , who are called the seed of israel , isa . 45.25 . in the lord shall all the seed of israel be justified , and shall glory . for as a rich man , when he dyeth , by his will or testament , leaveth his goods or riches not to strangers , but to his own kindred , as his brethern , or children , and to his wife ; so our lord jesus christ hath left by his will and testament , when he dyed , his spiritual goods , to wit , remission of sin , justification , adoption , and eternal life , only to his true spiritual kindred , to wit , his brethren , who are born from above , and spiritually related unto him , who are the true children of god , by spiritual regeneration , and renewing of the holy ghost , and who are his true church , and body , and of his flesh and bones , according to ephes . 5.30 . 3. and therefore not only faith , but true inward sanctification , and a thorow inward renewing into the image of god , and conformity of the whole man , unto the image of the son of god , is a condition and qualification necessarily required , in order unto mens being perfectly justified in the sight of god ; and as no man is justified , but who is sanctified , so no man is any more , or further justified than he is sanctified . 4. according unto which , god doth justifie men , not only by faith in christ , but by a real inward righteousness or holiness , which he doth beget in them by his holy spirit , and not only faith , but love , hope , true righteousness , and holiness , meekness , temperance and humility , and all other evangelical virtues , and fruits of the holy spirit , are the instruments and means whereby men obtain free justification through christ jesus , and whereby they are enabled , and fitted or qualified to apply christ jesus , and his righteousness unto them , so as to have the same imputed unto them , and made theirs , to wit , christ , and all his spiritual blessings , gifts and benefits , and his death , and sufferings , and obedience , with all the blessed effects and fruits of it . for as a line that is straight cannot be applyed unto another line that is crooked , but unto a line that is straight ; so cannot the lord jesus christ , who is the righteousness of god , be applyed unto men for justification , unless these men be made righteous , as he is in likeness , or conformity unto him , although not equal unto him : and therefore john did seasonably give the warning and caution , fore-seeing that many would claim to be righteous , or justified , when they were not really doers or workers of righteousness , 1 john 3.7 . little children , let no man deceive you ; he that doth righteousness , is righteous , even as he is righteous . and the same john said , rev. 22.14 . blessed are they that do his commandments , that they may have right to the tree of life , &c. which is equivalent to their being justified , seeing justification doth include in its nature , a right , or interest in christ , who is that tree of life . 5. it is therefore a gross error , and a false and antichristian doctrin , in these faith-publishers at westminster , espoused by the presbyterians and independant teachers in new-england , that god doth justifie men , not by infusing righteousness into them , but by pardoning their sins , and accepting them as righteous , &c. cap. 11. sect . 1 , 2. and also , that , they say , faith receiving and resting on christ , and his righteousness , is the alone instrument of justification , is another great error . for as faith may well be compared to one hand of the soul , whereby it receiveth and embraceth the lord jesus christ ; so love , which is an inward evangelical grace and virtue , that is shed abroad or infused into the soul , by the holy ghost , may be compared to another hand and arm , whereby it doth receive and embrace him . and all the inward evangelical divine virtues and graces that are wrought and begot in the soul , by the holy spirit of christ , are , so to speak , as a whole intire body , consisting of many members , whereby the soul doth embrace and cleave unto the lord jesus christ ; and thus a perfect union cometh to be witnessed betwixt the faithful soul , and the lord jesus christ , when it is joined unto him , receiveth him , and cleaveth unto him , not by one single grace or virtue , called faith , but by all other divine graces and virtues , which make up a whole intire body , having many members and joynts , whereby the soul cleaveth to him , as one streight line is joyned to another , or as one streight body to another , not in part only , but in all parts . and thus also doth the lord jesus christ embrace the whole soul in all its spiritual and divine powers and virtues , that he hath freely conferred upon it : and hence it is , that true believers are said to put on the lord jesus christ , as a man putteth on a garment . now he that putteth on a compleat or intire garment , every part of his body cleaveth to it ; even so the soul that putteth on christ , cleaveth to him by all its spiritual members , which are the divine evangelical virtues , wrought in it by the holy spirit of christ , even as the sins and evil lusts are called the members on earth , col. 3.5 . 6. but though real inward holiness and righteousness , as well as faith , be the instruments , whereby men are justified , yet they are not the foundation and ground of justification , but the lord jesus christ alone , even jesus of nazareth , who dyed for our sins , without the gates of jerusalem , and rose again in his intire and perfect obedience and righteousness , is the alone and only foundation and ground of justification , on which the souls of all the faithful are to rest for justification , and remission of all sin ; and therefore no man is to rest or relie upon the best works , or righteousness , or obedience , that he doth or can do , even when helped to perform the same , by the help of the holy spirit : for this were to put good works in the room of christ , which ought not to be ; for no works of righteousness or holiness done by us , even by the help of the holy spirit , is the foundation of the saints faith , or justification , but christ alone , and the free love , mercy , grace and favour of god the father revealed in him , and by him , through the holy spirit . for seeing all men generally have sinned , no mans best obedience for sin formerly committed , can be a ransom unto god , but christ alone is the ransom , even he who was crucified , and rose again , ( 1 pet. 3.18 . ) the just having suffered for the vnjust , that he might bring us unto god. and as no man can redeem the soul of his brother , so , nor can he redeem his own soul ; for the redemption of the soul is precious , and ceaseth forever , psal . 49.8 . viz. to be the work of man , but it is only and alone the work of him , who is both god and man , according to verse 15. but god will redeem my soul from the power of the grave , for he shall receive me , selah . see further these other scriptures , ephes . 1.7 . col. 1.14 . heb. 9.12 , 15. gal. 3.13 . 1 pet. 1.18 . rev. 5.9 . mat. 20.28 . 1 tim. 2.6 . job . 33.23 , 24. 7. and seeing remission and pardon of sin for christ's sake , is a part or branch of justification , as these faith-publishers do acknowledg , and that repentance is of such necessity , that none may expect pardon without it , as they confess , cap. 15. sect . 3. is it not very manifest , by their own confession ( though in plain contradiction to their own doctrin ) that repentance is a necessary instrument and condition whereby to obtain justification . and indeed the scripture layeth equal weight upon repentance and conversion , as it doth upon faith , in order to obtain remission or pardon of sins , acts 3.19 . repent ye therefore , and be converted , that your sins may be blotted out . acts 26.18 . to turn them from darkness unto light , and from the power of satan unto god , that they may receive forgiveness of sins , &c. and when the scripture saith , titus 3.5 . not by works of righteousness , which we have done , but according to his mercy he saved us . it is clear , that works before , or without true faith are understood , and not the inward work of sanctification , as is clear from the following words , by the washing of regeneration , and renewing of the holy ghost . and if the real inward work of sanctification and obedience had not been necessary to salvation , the scripture would not have said , work out your salvation with fear and trembling : and if ye through the spirit do mortifie the deeds of the body , ye shall live . and therefore when paul doth so earnestly plead that men are not justified by the works of the law , it is evident , he doth only exclude these legal performances and observations that the jews rested in , who had not faith in christ . and that no works , however so good or holy , being performed by men , ought to be rested in , as a foundation or ground of justification , for that were to exclude christ , and make his death of no effect . and again , when james doth plead so earnestly , that men are justified by works , and not by faith only , giving an instance in abraham and rahab , he only placeth faith and works together ( viz. such works as accompany true faith , and work together with it ) as necessary instruments and conditions , whereby to obtain justification , but not to be the foundation thereof . 8. and whereas paul generally so much useth that manner of speech , of justification by faith , it is manifest that by faith , he doth not mean only that single virtue called faith , but as by way of synecdoche , the most eminent , or noted part , is put for the whole , as when in scripture as well as in common speech , the head of a man is put for the whole man , ezek. 33.4 . ezek. 17.9 . even so by faith , the apostle in these places doth mean the whole complex or systeme , or intire body of the evangelical virtues and graces , whereof faith is as it were the head , and is first in order of nature , at least , in respect of the other ; and sometimes also by faith he understandeth , the whole evangelical dispensation and doctrin , as especially in that noted place , gal. 3.23 . but before faith came , we were kept under the law , &c. and verse 5. but after that faith is come , &c. where certainly paul doth not mean only that single virtue , called faith , but the whole evangelical dispensation , with all the spiritual gifts and graces of it . and again , gal. 3.2 . received ye the spirit by the works of the law , or by the hearing of faith ? which hath the same signification . and thus in common speech among christians , and christian writers , the christian faith doth signifie the whole christian religion and obedience ; and so unbelief in scripture is put for all other sin that men generally are under , before they believe , as rom. 11.32 . 9. true faith in christ jesus , ( on whom alone the soul resteth , as on the true foundation for justification , and all other divine and spiritual gifts & blessings ) is not only a believing in him , as he is the word , which was in the beginning with god , and is god , by whom all things were made , and which was in all the prophets , and faithful and holy men in all ages , but as the same word did take flesh , and was god manifest in the flesh , justified in the spirit , &c. 1 tim. 3.16 . which paul called , the great mystery of godlinss , to wit , christ crucified , and risen again , made of a woman , made under the law , the son of god , that did come in the likeness of sinful flesh , made like unto us in all things , sin excepted ; who being in the form of god , and thought it no robbery to be equal with god , humbled himself , and took upon him the form of a servant ; and was found in the true form and nature of a man , the seed of abraham and david , conceived by the holy ghost , and born of the virgin mary , at bethlem , in the land of judah . and thus the true faith doth not divide christ , but receiveth him , and joyneth the soul unto him entirely , to wit , the whole and intire christ , both as he did come outwardly in the flesh , and as he did , and doth inwardly come in the spirit ; and as the said true faith doth not divide him , so nor doth it divide his offices , but taketh or receiveth him in all his offices , as king , priest and prophet , shepherd , physician , husband , &c. and as he is called ( jerm . 23.6 . ) the lord our righteousness , in scripture ; so as none can have him to be their righteousness and justification , but who have him to be their lord , king and ruler in them , and their sanctification , wisdom and redemption . and thus every truly believing soul , is as the true mother of the child , who would not have the child divided ; but she who was not the true mother of the child , she would have the child divided ; a true figure of all false christians , who would have christ divided , and say , they believe in christ without them , but do not believe and receive christ within them , as god the father doth inwardly reveal him ; or as ranters , and other high notionists , who pretend to believe in christ , as he is the word and light in them , but slight and blaspheme against christ that was crucified without them . whereas the true believer doth both believe in christ , and receive christ , as he came in the flesh , and was crucified for our sins , and rose and ascended into heaven , and is now in heaven glorified , in the intire and perfect nature of man , in soul and body , appearing in the presence of god for us , our advocate with the father , and also doth believe in him , and receive him spiritually , to live and dwell in his heart , as he is the lord that spirit , and the second adam , or heavenly man , the quickning spirit , who is the true spiritual meat and drink to every believing soul , even as christ said , i am the true bread of life , he that eateth me , shall live by me . 10. and this true faith , in the least true measure of it , as it is an act or exercise , hath assurance in it , of the love and mercy of god revealed in christ jesus ; and true infallible assurance is of the very nature and being of true faith , as it is exercised on christ , its true and proper object and foundation , and upon the love and mercy of god the father revealed in christ ; hence paul said , that his gospel came unto these to whom he preached , not in speech only , but in power , and in the holy ghost , and in much assurance , or as the greek hath it , much full assurance , 1 thes . 1.5 . and he said further , his preaching was in the demonstration of the spirit , and of power , 1 cor. 2.4 , 5. that their faith ought not to be in the wisdom of man , but in the power of god : and this was sure footing , and had assurance in it , as the building on the sure rock . but they who deny all inward new revelation of the spirit , it s no wonder they deny that faith hath assurance in the being and nature of it . but without divine inward revelation , which begetteth assurance , there is no true faith , but only opinion , or conjecture , seeing there is no midst betwixt assurance and opinion , or conjecture ; and therefore these faith-publishers , have denyed the true faith of god's elect , when they say , it may be without assuranee , and that infallible assurance doth not belong so to the essence of faith , but that a true believer may wait long , and conflict with many difficulties , before he be partaker of it ; see chap. 18. sect. 3. and it is yet as strange , that they affirm , that a man without divine new revelation ( which here they call extraordinary , although in their first chapter , they have denyed all new divine revelation , even since the apostles ) can be infallibly assured , that he is in favour with god ; the which assurance they seem to ground upon the inward evidences of the graces of god , and the testimony of the spirit of adoption , witnessing with our spirits that we are the children of god. but whether this be not a manifest contradiction , one while to assert the necessity of the inward evidence of grace , and the testimony of the spirit witnessing with our spirits , that we are the children of god ; and another while , yea , with the same breath , to deny all inward revelation of the spirit ; and to say , the spirit worketh only effectively , and not objectively , and therefore is only medium incognitum assentiendi , to wit , an unknown principle of assenting , let the wise in heart consider and judge . for seeing no place of scripture , telleth us , that we have these infallible marks of god's children , and yet the spirit doth tell , or witness it , to or together with our spirits ; this certainly is a novum effatum , or new truth , or saying , no where either expresly or consequentially contained in the scripture ; or if they say it is contained in scripture , at least consequentially , to wit , that j.d. or j.c. hath the infallible marks of a child of god , let him produce it , or any for him , which they shall never be able to do . it is wonderful , that these men have such inveterate prejudice against divine inward revelation , that rather than assent to so blessed and comfortable doctrin , they will run into the most palpable non-sense and contradiction . and when they start from the testimony of the spirit , as implying divine inward revelation , they run at last to the testimony of a man 's own heart and conscience , not well considering that the bare testimony of a man's heart and conscience cannot infallibly assure him , or if it could , it is no divine testimony , but only human , and therefore no true object of divine faith. 11. but as the least true measure of faith , as it is lively acted or excercised upon christ inwardly revealed , hath an infallible assurance in it ; so this assurance doth only reach to the present state of faithfulness , as it is continued in , until it please god to reveal to the soul , that it shall be preserved faithful to the last , which so high degree of assurance , many true believers have not attained unto , god reserving that to such as he counteth worthy to reveal the same . but the first degree of assurance , to wit , whereby the soul is infallibly assured , that for the present , it is in the way and state of salvation ; and as it abideth , and continueth to walk in that living way and path it hath begun in , it shall be eternally saved , is a very blessed and comfortable degree , and such as for which every soul that hath it , has great cause to praise god. nor doth this degree of assurance hinder , but that the enemy of the soul's peace may raise up clouds and fogs of doubting and unbelief , which may for some time obscure that assurance , if the soul be not duely watchful , and diligent to retain the same . chap. viii . whether true beginnings of sanctification can be fallen from totally ? and whether it is true , that no man by any grace of god given him , or to be given him in this life , can perfectly keep the commandments of god , but doth daily break them , in thought , word and deed ? 1. that real and true beginnings of faith , and sanctification , or true and real righteousness may be fallen from , is clear from many testimonies of the holy scripture , especially heb. 6.4 , 5 , 6 , 7 , 8. where , first , is described the state of some , who do fall away , what it was before they so do ; as 1 st . that they were enlightned , so as to have tasted of the heavenly gift ; 2 dly . to have been made partakers of the holy ghost ; 3 dly . to have tasted the good word of god , and the powers of the world to come ; and surely , all this could not be without some real beginning of true sanctification . secondly , the state of such is described , when , or after they do so fall away , that they crucifie to themselves the son of god afresh , and put him to an open shame ; and also the great danger they are in ; so that it is impossible to renew them again unto repentance : but how far this impossibility doth extend , whether to a simple impossibility , or only in some respect , is not the present business to determin , and to the same purpose the author writeth , heb. 10.26 , 27 , 28. thirdly , the apostle paul in his epistle to the romans , chap. 11. doth not only affirm , that many jews and people of israel , who were the natural branches , were broken off from the root ( which root is christ ) by unbelief , but warneth the believing gentiles , of their great danger , also to be cut off , if they did not keep in holy fear and watchfulness , see verse 20.21 , 22. fourthly , the apostles , peter and jude set before the christians , the fearful examples of the fallen angels , and of the old world , and also of the people of israel , who were saved out of egypt , to be a warning and caution unto them , lest they should fall after the same manner . now the fall of the angels , was a total falling away , and so was that of israel in the wilderness , who though they did eat that spiritual meat and drink that spiritual drink , to wit , the rock that followed them , and that rock was christ , as paul expresly declared , 1 cor. 10. yet were overthrown in the wilderness for their idolatry , fornication , and other great sins , they were destroyed of the destroyer ; so that in that day , god did swear against them , they should not enter into his rest ; see 2 pet. 2. throughout , compared with jude , and 1 cor. 10. throughout . fifthly , the parable of the seed that was sown in the stony and thorny ground , that sprang up , and afterwards whithered , did signifie ( as christ expresly did expound it ) some that believed for a time , and afterwards did fall away . and this faith was not altogether a false faith , otherwise it had not been blame-worthy in them , to have left it , or cast it away ; for it is rather commendable , than reproveable , to cast away what is false and hypocritical , and not real : nor doth it argue , that their faith was not true or real , that it sprang up in the stony and thorny ground . for many that are real and sincere believers , at their first believing , feel their hearts to be both stony and thorny ground , and yet with diligence and labour , through the power and grace of god , come to get their hearts in process of time , so changed and renewed , that they become good ground , and bring forth good fruit to the end : so the more stony and thorny that the heart is , the more labour is to be used to make it good , which by the grace of god may well be done . sixthly , the parable of the ten virgins , five whereof were foolish , hath the same signification , for these five foolish virgins had some oyl in their lamps , but not being wise to get enough , they spent what they had , and so their lamps went out ; for though they had oyl in their lamps ( otherwise their lamps could not have gone out ) yet they had not in their vessels , as the wise virgins had , and so when they were called at midnight , to meet the bride-groom , they had no oyl at all , neither in their lamps , or vessels ; see mat. 25. from verse 1. to 12. seventhly , it is expresly said , ezek. 18.24 . and 26 , 27. when a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness , and committeth iniquity , he shall die . and again , when the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness , and doth that which is lawful and right , he shall live . and eighthly , the example of david is a most clear instance , who fell from his integrity , by these two great and capital sins of adultery and murther , and brought death upon him ; and had not god renewed him again by repentance , and restored him , he had dyed in his sins , and perished ; and this fall of his was total , though not final , because god restored him before he dyed . but to say , as these faith-publishers say and affirm , that no men once sanctified in the least measure , can fall totally from their sanctification , though committing murder and adultery , as was the case of david ( see cap. 17. sect. 1. and cap. 11.5 . of their confession ) nor from their justification , is not only a most false and pernicious doctrin , but a most wonderful piece of confusion . for if he that is both murderer and adulterer in the very act , and remaining in that or these sins , without repentance for some time , are really saints , and justified ; then who may be said not to be saints ? or what difference is there betwixt the saints , and no saints , betwixt the godly and the wicked , good men and evil men ? if a man that is both murderer and adulterer , be a real saint , and a justified man , then the worst of men may generally believe they are true and real saints , and ye cannot convince them of the contrary ? for by what means can they be convinced thereof ? tell them of their sins , lying , stealing , drunkenness , swearing , murther and adultery , none of all this , according to this wicked doctrin , doth prove them to be no saints , or that they have not true faith ; and therefore if they die in these gross sins , they must go to heaven immediately ; because they shall die in faith , they shall die sanctified and justified men ; than which i know no greater confusion , and daubing with untempered morter , and sewing pillows under peoples arm-holes , like the false teachers of old , and prophecying smooth things unto people in their sins , and flattering them , yea , imboldning and encouraging them to sin : and no doubt , many are wofully imboldned and encouraged to run into sin , and excess of sin by such poysonous doctrin , that these false teachers feed them with , that is like sweet poyson , that though it be sweet to the flesh , yet it kills the soul : doth not the scripture say , the soul that sinneth shall die , and the wages of sin is death ? and as every sin doth in some measure kill the soul , so great sins , such as murder and adultery , than which we can hardly suppose any greater ( unless that unpardonable sin of blasphemy against the holy ghost ) do wholly kill and destroy the soul , insomuch that if any such soul ever be saved , it must be by a new creation , and renewing ; and of this david was well sensible , when , after god was pleased spiritually to visit and awaken him again , he prayed unto god , saying , create in me a clean heart , o god , and renew a right spirit within me , psal . 51.10 . and thus according to these false teachers , there is no mortal sin , that any soul once quickned in the least degree , can commit ; and the same sin that is mortal in the unbeliever , is not mortal in him that once was a believer , as murder , adultery , yea , incest , or worse , is no mortal sin , in one , and yet is a mortal sin in the other . doth not this loose the reins to all sorts of wickedness , and make god a respecter of persons , and faith a sort of proof , that though men , once having faith , commit the worst sort of sins , as murder , adultery , incest , rapine , yet their faith is a sort of proof unto them , that none of these sins doth or can kill them ? they are still saints for all this , and justified in the sight of god ; and if saints , then good enough to be your church-members , yea , members of the independent or congregational church . why ? what doth hinder , but they are as real and lawful members of the church as any others ? and if murderers and adulterers , while such , are still saints , and qualified to be your church-members , it is no wonder that your church be large , and have a great number of members . it is no great difficulty to be a member of that church , when a murderer , an adulterer can be a member of it . is this your pretence to reformation ? and why , ye estimate your church more holy than the church of rome ? but is not your church and doctrin in this respect much more unholy ? for the church of rome saith , all gross , or great sins , as fornication , adultery , murder , and the like , are really mortal sins , in all that commit them , without respect of persons ; and whoever commit such sins are fallen from their state in grace . and so saith the scripture , 1 cor. 6.9 , 10. be not deceived , neither fornicators , nor idolaters , nor adulterers , &c. shall inherit the kingdom of god. the which kingdom of god is a state of grace , as well as of glory . and here we see the apostle paul maketh no distinction betwixt one that hath formerly believed , and one that hath not believed , but without distinction , or respect of persons , he concludeth in general against them all , that while such , they cannot inherit the kingdom of god. but according to this westminster and new-england confession of faith , fornicators , and murderers , and adulterers , that have at any time once believed , do still inherit the kingdom of god , to wit , a state of grace , which is , in a true sense , the kingdom of god , and is frequently so called in scripture . and thus it doth most evidently appear , that their doctrin in this particular is antichristian , and contrary to the doctrin of the holy scriptures . and to say , that murder or adultery in him that hath once truly believed , is not a mortal , or killing sin , but is a mortal sin in him that hath not believed , is not only to make god a respecter of persons in the worst sense , but to extenuate the sin in the believer , and to aggravate it in the unbeliever , contrary to the scriptures testimony , which doth aggravate any sin , that men having once believed , fall into , more than in unbelievers , as is clear from 2 pet. 2.20 , 21. 2. and as for the scriptures , they bring in their said confession , to prove their false doctrin , let them be impartially examined , and they will be found to prove no such thing ; some of them being expresly conditional , as that in 2 pet. 1.10 . for if ye do these things , ye shall never fall . here it is only promised conditionally , but not absolutely , that they shall not fall , to wit , if they give all diligence to add to their faith virtue , &c. verse 5. and this serveth them not only from falling totally , but from falling indefinitly or universally , so as not at all to fall ; for he saith not , ye shall not fall totally , but , ye shall not fall . and there are many other scriptures , that though they do not expresly mention the condition , yet do imply it , and are to be expounded by other scriptures that do express it . 3. it is readily and willingly granted , that there is a state in holiness , or sanctification , that may be attained and grown up into , wherein men cannot fall away totally from a state of grace ; but as they cannot fall away totally , so they cannot commit any gross or great sin , which in the scripture phrase , is commonly called sin , to wit , a hainous sin , or crime , which john calleth , a sin unto death , 1 john 5.16 , 17. and here he distinguisheth betwixt a sin unto death , and a sin that is not unto death , viz. that doth not totally slay the soul's life , but woundeth it , and killeth only in part , as some small wandring or evagation of mind , or giving way ( through slackning the watch ) unto a vain thought , for some small time ; something of anger , or passion , upon some sudden occasion ; something of glorying in sufferings , or services , or knowledge , or in spiritual attainments ; something of too forward and hasty zeal , and divers like sudden motions , that a gracious and godly soul may be tryed and afflicted with , that are as thorns in the flesh-and do wound and afflict the soul , but are not suffered to proceed so far , as to carry it forth into any secret or open gross crime , either inwardly in the heart , or outwardly in word or deed. hence both in the old and new testament , we find divers kinds and degrees of sin , more or less heinous , and these expressed by divers both hebrew and greek words : the more heinous are called , iniquities , vngodliness , impiety , vnrighteousness , perverseness , rebellion ; and others of an inferiour nature , are called , trespasses , debts , omissions , faults , &c. now the least kind or degree of sin doth weaken and wound , yea , kill in part the soul 's spiritual life , as when in the natural body some member is mortally wounded , and killed , and yet the whole person is not slain thereby ; but all gross sins , such as fornication , adultery , murder , theft , robbery , &c. make havock , waste and destroy the soul's life , and kill the whole man , whom , notwithstanding , god in his infinite mercy may and doth , at times , restore . for we read of no sin unpardonable , but that of blasphemy against the holy ghost , and doing despite to the spirit of grace . and such who are come to this noble degree and state of sanctification , are described , psal . 119.2 , 3. blessed are they that keep his testimonies , and that seek him with the whole heart , they also do no iniquity , they walk in his ways . and such have their calling and election made sure unto them ; such are not meerly or barely servants , nor sons of the bond-woman , but sons of the free-woman , and throughly renewed and born of god , who doth not commit sin , for his seed remaineth in them , 1 john 3.9 . and he cannot sin , because he is born of god. for indeed to him that is born of god , sin is contrary to his new nature , as much as holiness or righteousness is contrary to the devil's nature , or as one contrary thing can be to another , as it is contrary to a fish to live on dry land , or for a sheep or dove to live in the bottom of the seas . but whoever commit any gross thing , as fornication , murder , adultery , theft , robbery , perjury ; &c. never arrived to this pure and perfect state of sonship , were but servants , and not purely and perfectly sons ; and yet the state of the servant is a true and good state in its place , and as faithfully improved , leadeth on infallibly to the state of pure and perfect sonship ; and such who have attained to this pure and perfect state of sonship , can say with paul , gal. 4.31 . so then brethren , we are not children of the bond-woman , but of the free. and with john , 1 john 2.19 . they ( to wit , such who were not true sons , but at best only servants ) went out from us , but they were not of us , &c. to wit , sons and children of the free-woman , or the children of the new covenant , they were only of hagar , that signifieth the law , or first covenant . and to conclude , the righteousness and holiness of the first covenant , may be totally fallen from , such as was that of the angels , who fell , and adam the first man , he fell totally , and so may they who are not further advanced , than to bear the image of him , the earthly adam ; but the righteousness and holiness of the new covenant , ( such as they attain unto , who are throughly born of god , and are made overcomers and conquerors , yea , more than conquerors , as the scripture phraseth it , and are made conform to the image of christ , the second adam , the lord from heaven , heavenly ) cannot be fallen from , or lost ; such having overcome , are made pillars in the house of god , so as no more to go out , rev. 3.12 . and to this state only do all these places of scripture relate , that hold forth and imply a sure and absolute stedfastness in holiness and righteousness . but who are thus far advanced , and who are not , although infallible signs and marks of distinction may be given of these two so differing states , god only infallibly knoweth , and they to whom he doth reveal it : for it is god that must make known by the inward revelation of his holy spirit , who hath these marks , otherwise men may presume to have them , when they have them not . and of these infallible signs and marks , some of them are to love god with the whole heart , to love him purely and perfectly , to love him for himself , and to desire to enjoy him , as he is a god of holiness , purity and righteousness , more than for gifts , or comforts , or rewards , that are of an inferiour nature ; to hate and fear sin , more than all punishment for sin ; to have no inward inclination , or desire to revenge injuries , but most willingly and heartily to forgive and bear them ; to love enemies , from the very inward ground and bottom of the heart , and always to render good for evil , and blessing for cursing . now he that is in the state of a meer servant , or son of the bond-woman , may endeavour to practice all these things in word and deed , as outwardly , and may have many inward wrestlings , and endeavours inwardly to bring his heart to the inward conformity of this most holy and spiritual law ; but until he be more inwardly changed and renewed , and born again by a second inward birth , he cometh not up in heart and soul to this inward purity , but feels a secret defect within him , of this so perfect righteousness , that is wholly evangelical . 4. next as to that other question mentioned in the title of this chapter , viz. whether it is true , that no man by any grace of god given him in this life ( which includes all grace given at present , or to be given at any time hereafter in this life ) can perfectly keep the commandments of god , but doth daily break them , in thought , word and deed. the faith publishers of westminster and new-england do positively & expresly affirm it , in answer to question 149. larger catech. and cap. 16. sect. 5. they farther say , that the best works of the saints , which proceed from the spirit of god , as they are wrought by them , are defiled . the which assertions have seemed so gross to divers of their church-members , that they could not believe , that their catechism and confession of faith said any such thing , until i have got the book , and both read & caused them to read the same in their said catechism & confession with their own eyes , and then they were amazed and ashamed ; and indeed it is an astonishing doctrin , especially to say , that the good works of god's holy spirit are defiled in or by the saints . it is such a chimera , or contradiction , as to say , one and the same thing can have the perfect shape of a man , in all his parts and members , without any defect or redundancy , as to say , a perfect man , and yet also have the shape of a dog , ass or hog , at the same instant . for they say , as it is the work of god , it is perfect ; and as it is the work of man , it is imperfect and sin , and that totally . for they do not mean , that one part of the work is god's , and that is perfect , and another part is man's , and that is imperfect ; but that the whole work , as it is god's , is perfect , and as it is man's , even the same whole work is defiled and imperfect , yea , sin : what greater piece of nonsense and contradiction can be imagined ? as who would say , the snow is perfectly white in one sense , and yet black in another sense , or the fire is hot in one sense , but cold in another ? and another as great an absurdity they have affirmed , that these defiled and sinful works of the saints , god doth accept them , looking upon them in his son , though in god's sight , they are defiled and reproveable . is not this to represent god ( to speak with reverence ) as looking with a deceiveable eye , as one that looks upon an object , through a green or red glass , it seemeth green or red , although it be not really so ? and is it not to make christ a meer cloak to sin , or blind to hide it from god's all-seeing eye , or if not to hide it , yet for god to accept that for good and holy , which is not really so , and so to give a false judgment , and to call evil good , which god abhorreth ? and is not this antimonian like , who say , god seeth no sin in them , though they lye , swear falsly , drink , drunk , steal , whore , & c. ? yea , ranter like , for they say , god seeth no sin in them , because he looks upon them in christ . but surely , in whomsoever sin is , god and christ seeth it , and cannot accept it , and christ himself judgeth and condemneth all sin. and as for their alledged proofs from scripture , they are meerly wrested and abused , as the impartial reader may perceive , with small examination . the first place they cite in their larger catechism , answ . to quest . 149. is james 3.2 . for in many things we offend all . but to this i answer , 1 st . he doth not say , in all things , as these faith-makers say , that all the best works of the saints are defiled , and they sin in them all . 2 dly , he doth not say , we shall , and must always offend , and can do no otherwise by any grace of god , so long as we live . 3 dly , it is to be considered , that the apostle james writes this epistle in general to the twelve tribes , who were not generally come to a state of perfection , and of such it may be said , they offend in many things , to wit , such as are weak in faith ; and though he use the first person of the plural number , saying , we , this doth not prove that he doth understand himself , more than when he saith , verse 9 , therewith ( to wit , the tongue ) curse we men. for james , to be sure , was no such man , both to bless and curse with the same tongue or mouth ; for thus he expostulates with them , my brethren , these things ought not so to be ; doth a fountain send forth at the same place sweet water and bitter ? the next place they cite , is john 15.5 . for without me ye can do nothing . this proveth indeed , that no man without the grace of christ can do any good ; but it proveth not , that by the grace of god he cannot do that which is good . surely paul was not of these mens faith , who said , he was able through him that strengthned him , viz. christ to do all things . the next place they cite , is ecclesiastes 7.20 . there is no man that doth good , and sinneth not . to this it is answered ; first , the translation doth as well bear it in the potential mood , and may not sin ; the hebrew word being in the future , which is at times put for the potential mood , as psal . 22.17 . the word in the hebrew is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the future : secondly , it is readily granted , that there is a time or state wherein men generally do sin , until a state of perfection be attained , which was not generally attained in the time of the law , or old testament , for the law made nothing perfect , and it is said to be weak , although no doubt , there were some excellent and perfect men in that time , but they did not attain to that perfection by the law , but by faith in christ . another place they cite , is gen. 6.5 . and god saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth , and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually . answer , this is very impertinently here alledged , for it speaketh only of that generation of men in the old world , that were so exceedingly degenerated , that god was provoked to drown them with the deluge of waters . but this doth not prove that it is so with the saints ; yea , noah is expresly excepted , verse 8. but noah found grace in the eyes of the lord. and vers . 9. noah was a just man , and perfect in his generation ; and noah walked with god. another place they cite , rom. 3.9 . answ . this place is as impertinently alledged as the former ; for it is plain , that paul there describeth the condition of men , both jews and gentiles , as they are generally under the law , and before they have faith in christ , as is clear from verse 19. now we know , that what things soever the law saith , it saith to them who are under the law. but no where can it be found in scripture , that there are none of these who are under grace , that are righteous men , and made free from sin ; but the contrary is manifest , which expresly testifieth of many righteous and perfect men , in their generation , both before and after christ came in the flesh , who pleased god , and were men of good hearts , and good lives , and especially enoch is recorded , to have walked with god by faith , of whom nothing blame worthy is mentioned in any one particular . and christ speaking of good men , saith , a good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit ; and a good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth good things . but to apply these words , rom. 3.9 . and the following words , to the saints generally , as these faith publishers do , sutes more with ranters than sober christians ; see and well consider the words , from verse 10. to verse 19. there is none righteous , no , not one ; there is none that understandeth , there is none that seeketh after god ; they are gone out of the way , they are together become unprofitable ; there is none that d●th good , no , not one : their throat is an open sepulchre , with their tongues they have used deceit ; the poyson of asps is under their lips , whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness ; their feet are swift to shed blood , destruction and misery are in their ways , and the way of peace they have not known : there is no fear of god before their eyes . o ye presbyterian and independent . teachers of new-england and old ! how are ye not ashamed to apply these words to all god's true saints ? yea , to the best that ever lived in the best state ; and to bring them as a proof against the possibility of the saints perfection in this life : for if these words do hold forth the best condition of the saints , that ever they were in upon earth , ye may as well say , all men , yea , the worst of men are saints , or the saints are the worst of men , and there is no difference of men at all , but all are equally wicked , equally ungodly , unholy , unrighteous , which is indeed the plain and express language of ranters , libertines , atheists , some of whom to the wounding and loathing of my soul , i have heard so affirm : but we cannot grant unto you , that any of god's saints are in that state and condition described by paul in that place , rom. 3. from verse 9. to verse 19 , and 20. which words he citeth out of some of the psalms of david , describing the state of men , as they are in the fallen state , and before the new birth and spiritual regeneration in christ . but thus to confound these so differing states , is to confound heaven and earth , yea , rather heaven and hell , and to soppose a concord betwixt light and darkness , god and belial , christ and antichrist . but let it be known unto you , we can allow none of god's true saints to be such as are there described by paul , rom. 3. from verse 9. to 19. but it doth too much sute and quadrate with many of your supposed new-england saints , who have most bitterly and falsly accused god's servants , called in scorn quakers , and most cruelly whipped , imprisoned and robed many of them , and hanged some of them . it may be well enough said of them indeed , their throat is an open sepulchre ; with their tongues they have used deceit ; the poyson of asps is under their lips , whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness ; their feet are swift to shed blood , destruction and misery are in their ways , &c. take this home to you , and blame not me for the application , seeing ye make it your selves , and judge it to be your own condition . 5. and that the said doctrin , viz. the best of the saints by the greatest grace of god given in this life , cannot perfectly keep the commandments of god , but doth daily break them in thought , word and deed , and cannot be free from sin for term of life , but must sin so long as they live , and are only set free from sinning after death , as they expresly word it , in answer to quest . 89. larger catechism , is not only warranted by any place of scripture , but is most expresly contrary to scripture in many places , and is quite opposite to the very nature of the new covenant and gospel dispensation , and highly injurious to the lord jesus christ , tending to make void , and of none effect , the very end of his coming , and to frustrate his exceeding rich grace ; and also , it is most wofully injurious to mens souls , not only discouraging men to press after perfection in holiness , and freedom from sin , but tending to encourage them in sloath and neglect , to live and die in their sins , and yet for all this be saints , and immediately go to heaven , although they both live and die in their sins . and first , that the said doctrin is expresly contrary to scripture , see rom. 6.18 . being then made free from sin , ye became the servants of righteousness . and chap. 8.2 , 3 , 4 , 5. and verse 9. and chap. 6.6 , 7 , 8. john 8.32 , 33 , 34 , 35 , 36. ephes . 4.13 . coloss . 1.28 . heb. 7.19 . next , god did promise in the new covenant , that he would pour clean water upon his people , and they should be clean from all their filthiness ( ezek. 36.25 , &c. ) and he would write his law in their hearts , ( jer. 31.33 . ) and put his spirit in their inward parts , and give them a heart of flesh , and a new heart , and a new spirit , and put his fear in their hearts , that they shall not depart from him . and surely all this doth plainly hold forth a freedom from a total sinning , and that daily in thought word and deed. thirdly , the very end of christ's coming was to save his people from their sins , and not in their sins , to put an end to sin , and to finish transgression , and bring in everlasting righteousness , ( dan. 9.24 . ) and to do or effect that which the law could not do , viz. to destroy sin , and him who hath the power of death , to wit , the devil , that the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us , who walk not after the flesh , but after the spirit , rom. 8.4 . and the lord said unto paul , 2 cor. 12.9 . my grace is sufficient for thee . but if it cannot preserve any soul , one day , or hour , or moment , from sinning actually in thought , word and deed , it cannot be understood to be sufficient ; and paul said , where sin did abound , grace hath much more abounded , and he was able through christ that strengthened him , to do all things : and christ said , his yoke was easie , and his burden was light : and john said , his commandments are not grievous . but according to these faith-publishers , christ's yoke is so heavy , that none can bear it ; for what is it to bear his yoke , but to keep his commandments ? and if they cannot be fulfilled by men , and yet many thousands cast into hell-fire for not fulfilling them , they are very grievous , which god forbid we should think . and to say , that god requireth perfect obedience from any part of mankind , and yet giveth them no ability to perform it , and punish them with hell-fire , for not doing that which is utterly and absolutely impossible for them do , doth wofully reflect upon the justice of god , and rendereth him not only severe and hard , but most cruel and tyrannical , worse than pharoah , to the poor israelites , who required of them the tale of brick , but gave them no straw , and yet punished them for not performing their task . and lastly , it is wofully injurious to men , to discourage them to press after perfection , or a perfect freedom from sin , to tell them , they cannot attain to it while they live . as if a physician should tell his patient , for all the physick i give thee , thou must still remain diseased , and never be healed , till death heal thee . or as if one should say to a traveller , that is going to such a city , thou shalt never reach to it whilst thou livest in this world. would not this greatly discourage them ? and also it doth greatly encourage people to live in sloath , and neglect to tell them , that though they live and die in their sins , they shall be saved , if they have at any time once in all their life believed in christ jesus , that faith will save them , though they live and die in their sins . but we find that christ fore-warned people , that if they died in their sins , they should not come whither he did go , john 8.21 . and it was a fearful threatning that god denounced against that people , isa . 22.14 . surely this iniquity shall not be purged from you , till ye die , saith the lord god of hosts . but this false doctrin of your teachers telleth you , it is no matter , though ye die in your sins , yet ye shall immediately after death go into heaven , if ye have once believed . and the scripture saith , where the tree falleth , there it shall be , whether towards the south , or towards the north , eccles . 11.3 . but according to this evil and corrupt doctrin , though the tree falleth north , it shall lie south . it is a fearful thing to teach or believe such doctrin in a matter of so great moment , so to smooth and daub with untempered morter , and to flatter people , to tell them , they not only may , but must live and die in their sins , and yet immediately after death , they shall go into heaven , if once they have believed , their faith secureth them , though they sin daily in thought , word and deed , and break all god's holy commandments every day , and that there be no health , nor soundness in them . and indeed it is the great love that people have to sin and iniquity , that maketh them plead so earnestly for it ; for if they were weary of sin , and did hate it , as a most cruel tyrant , they would be glad to hear of a possibility of deliverance from sin here in this world. and they that plead so much for sin , to live and die in it , they plead for the devil's kingdom , and are his servants and ministers in that respect , and not the servants and ministers of christ . 6. but to clear the doctrin of perfection , as it is believed and preached by the people called quakers , take these following considerations , ( 1st . ) it is not an absolute perfection that we plead for , as attainable in this life , as many of you have falsly accused us , and particularly nath. morton , in his new-england memorial , pag. 157. as in many other things he doth most falsly charge that people in his said book ; for we say , that the highest degree of perfection attainable in this life ought not to be sit down and rested in by any , but there ought to be a continual progress , by the best , in holiness , and in conformity to the image of the son of god , until the very last moment of their life ; for christ himself , who was free from all sin , yet was perfected further , as he was man , and did grow both in grace and stature ; and adam in the innocent state , was still to have increased in virtue and goodness , and then he would not have fallen , as he did . ( 2 dly . ) this perfection or freedom from sin , and possibility by the grace of god , to keep his commandments , we do not say it is attained by every one , at their first conversion or entrance into the true faith ; but on the contrary , we say , many true believers , and who have a true measure of sincerity towards god , are yet short of that state of a sinless perfection ; and that it is not attained , but by great diligence , and wrestling against sin , through the ability of the grace of god , and much watching and praying , and using all the means appointed of god , both inwardly and outwardly , to attain to that blessed conquest and victory over sin . ( 3 dly . ) the most perfect in this life , have need to watch and pray , that they enter not into temptation ; for as adam , in innocency , and in the garden , did sin , and by his sin lost his innocency , so may men that are inwardly come to this state , if they be not duly watchful , sin against the lord ; therefore it is not the impossibility of sinning in all respects , that we plead for , but the possibility of not sinning , and that by the grace of god , and not otherwise . altho' some may arrive to that state in holiness , in conformity to the second adam , that they neither sin , nor can sin , in that sense as the scripture doth intend it , 1 john 3.19 . which doth at least hold forth , that such who are attained to this noble degree of holiness , they cannot commit any gross sin ( although in some things , not for want of love , but not having a full and perfect knowledge in all things , they may a little fall short , as a most loving child , not perfectly understanding the fathers mind in all things , may do a thing amiss , and yet without breach of true love to his father , and therefore his father doth not charge it upon him as a crime ; and the like example may be of a most loving wife , to her husband , who retaineth her chaste and perfect love to her husband , and yet may do some things not according to his mind ; for as the scripture saith , love is the fulfilling of the law ; and he that faileth not in his love , and transgresseth not against the law of love , though in some case he may fall short in understanding , god doth not impute it to be a crime unto him . ( 4 thly ) it is not temptations or motions unto sin , that may arise either from the devil , or the world without them , or from the natural and mortal part in them , that we plead a freedom from ; for it is readily granted that such temptations may and do follow the best men , and therefore they ought to watch against them , and resist them , the which if they do , and that they no wise joyn and consent to temptation , it is not sin unto them , according to that saying of an ancient , non nocet sensus , si desu consensus , i. e. the sense of the temptation doth not hurt , if the consent be not given unto it . ( 5 thly . ) the seed or principle of evil , tho' it remain in the mortal , or natural part , & at times move to evil thoughts and desires , &c. yet not being in any wife joyned nor consented unto , neither outwardly in word or deed , nor inwardly in the least thought or desire , or delight and love of the heart yielded unto , nor obeyed , is not imputed to be sin unto men , who do not joyn to it , nor obey it , even as the seed and principle of god's grace , of truth , holiness , and righteousness , that is in the hearts of wicked men , and oft moveth in them to turn and convert them unto god from the evil of their ways , yet not being consented , or yielded unto , nor obeyed by them , it is not in that case their righteousness , nor doth it make them in any respect righteous , unless they joyn and yield unto it , in true obedience . ( 6thly . ) it is not the same degree and stature of perfection , that god requireth of every one , but according to that measure and degree of grace and light that god hath imparted to every one , to some more , to others less , but to every one sufficient to the present time and state . for he that was faithful in the improving his two talents to make them four , was accepted , although he made them not ten , as he that was faithful in his five , and made them ten , and they were both proportionally rewarded ; hence we read of good and holy men , who are said to be perfect in their generation , according to the light and grace that god gave them , in their day and age. and the high priest that had on his breast the vrim and thummim , that signifieth lights and perfections , was a type of christ , our great and only high priest , who hath the vrim , that is lights , and the thummim , that is perfections , and distributeth of these lights and perfections variously towards his saints and children , but to all sufficiently . and so the degree of perfection , and perfect obedience ought to answer to the degree of light and grace that god giveth through christ unto every one , and he who is faithful in that degree , though he hath not the same equal degree and measure that another hath , is perfect in that respect ; and the child in the child's state is perfect , being faithful to the grace and light that is given him ; and if he die in that state , he is safe , and cannot perish , as well as he that is a man in christ , and is come up to the spiritual stature and growth of a spiritual man. so that faithfulness in the work and service of god , is that which doth render a man perfect in the sight of god , according to the ability of light and grace received , whether in the state of a child , young-man , or elder in christ . and thus i have gone through all the twelve particulars , which i charged on the four teachers , whether presbyterian or independent , at boston , and have given them not only my assertions , but my arguments against their false and pernicious doctrins , that do not feed , but starve and kill the souls of them that believe and receive them . chap. ix . of the constitution and government of their visible church , who are called presbyterians and independents , or gathered churches . 1. the visible church they define to be , or to consist of all those throughout the world , that profess the true religion , together with their children ; see confession , cap. 25. sect. 2. where it doth plainly appear , that they require no other qualification , to constitute or make the members of their visible church , but a profession of the true religion : so that nothing of true piety or holiness , nothing of the spirit of god , nothing of an inward possession of christ , or his life , and power , or grace , or heavenly presence and appearance , is requisit to constitute any members of their visible church ; and thus though all the members of their visible church were gross and notorious hypocrites , and meer empty formalists , having only a form of godliness , without the power of it , they are sufficiently qualified to be their church-members ; yea , notoriously slanderous persons , notoriously lyars , deceivers , drunkards , adulterers , thieves , murderers , are qualified members of their church ; for all these and the worst of men may profess the true religion . it is strange , that independents so called , require no more , but to profess the true religion , to make people members of their church ! why did they formerly separate , and set up churches apart , not only from the popish and episcopal , but from the presbyterian churches , so called , if a profession of the true religion be enough , to qualifie persons to be church-members of their church ? do not those profess the true religion as well as these called independents ? yea , do not the presbyterians profess the same religion in all parts , with these called independents , and differ nothing from them , but in some small circumstances of discipline , government , and the like ? 2. we find no such church in all the scripture , owned to be a church of god , or christ , that the outward form or profession of true religion doth make a church of god or christ . but on the contrary , these who have the form of godliness , but have not the power of it , and deny the power , the scripture bids , turn away from them : for of this sort are they which creep into houses , &c. see 2 tim. 3.5 , 6. and consequently these can be no true church of christ . and as for the distinction of the church , visible and invisible , it may be owned in a sense , but not in that sense given by them , as if to profess the true religion was sufficient to make a people to be a true visible church of christ . for the invisible church , and the visible , do not differ in substance or nature , but in some circumstances of time , places , and outward actions . and it may be well allowed , that a company , or assembly of truly holy men and women , meeting together at certain times and places , that are known to people among whom they dwell , and calling together upon the name of the lord , and teaching , and instructing , and edifying one another , every one using his spiritual gift of ministration , whether in praying or prophecying , to the edification of the whole , may be called a visible church , insomuch that they appear in external or outward and bodily works and actions that are visible . but as the body without life or spirit is dead , and cannot properly be called a man , so a church or assembly of people , only professing the true religion ( but having nothing of the true life and spirit of christ , and whose outward and bodily services and works have no inward and spiritual virtue and life in them , which is that salt that maketh them savoury , and doth recommend them unto god , so that he savoureth a sweet savour in them ) cannot be truly and justly accounted a true church of christ : for we no where find in scripture any society , or company of people called the church of christ , who had nothing but the profession of the true religion ; and although hypocrites , and meer formalists did outwardly at times mingle or mix with sincere christians , and did assume the same outward profession with them in former ages , as such were among the churches of corinth and gulatia , &c. yet these hypocrites and meer formalists , who had only the form , but had nothing of the power and life of true religion , were no part of the true church , no more than chaff or tares , that are mixed with wheat , are any part of the wheat , or dross that is mixed with silver , is any part of the silver , or old leaven that is mixed with the new dough , is any part of it . and therefore it ought to be the work of all the true members of the true church , to purge out the old leaven , and to be a separate people from all these that have only a form and profession of religion , but have nothing of the power of it . 3. the church of christ is called his body , frequently in scripture , and every member thereof is called a member of christ , and his body is a living body , and every member a living member ; and that which maketh both the whole body , and every member thereof living , is christ jesus the life , living and indwelling in every member , and together with christ , both the father and the holy spirit do dwell in every member of the true church , even as christ promised it should be , john 14.23 . if a man love me , he will keep my words , and my father will love him , and we will come unto him , and make our abode with him . and this we , is the father , the son , and the holy spirit , who are three , and one , indwelling in every true member of the church of christ ; and according to this , paul said to the believing corinthians , know ye not , that your bodies are the temples of the holy ghost , which dwelleth in you . and the holy ghost which dwelt in them , together with the father and the son , did work every good work in them , and move them in all holy and religious services and performances , whether to preach , pray , or give thanks , or to meditate and wait upon the lord in silence : and they knew by the inward teaching and revelation of god's holy spirit , the proper and fit times , when to speak , and when to be silent , when to preach , and when to pray , and when to begin , and when to make an end ; they had no hour-glass to measure out the time unto them , nor an outward bell hanging in a steeple , to call them together , but the gospel-bell did ring and sound in their hearts , and this gathered them together in a living way and manner ; and of this the outward bells , ( ex. 28 34 , 35 ) that did hang at the high-priest's garment , with the pomegranats , were types : and this is the living word , even christ whose inward voice and call in the soul and heart , giveth a joyful sound to that ear which is opened to hear it ; and of such it is written , blessed are they that know the joyful sound , they shall walk , o lord , in the light of thy countenance , psal 89.15 . 4. moreover the true church , and every member thereof , is said to be of christ's flesh , and of his bones , and they two are one flesh , ephes . 5.30 , 31. and they are one spirit , 1 cor. 6.17 . for christ he is both the head and life of the church , which is his body , from whom the whole body fitly joyned together , and compacted by that which every joynt supplyeth , according to the effectual working ( the greek hath it , energia ) in the measure of every part , maketh increase of the body , unto the edifying of it self in love , ephes . 4.16 . and that which thus knitteth all the members both unto christ , the head , and one unto another , is the spirit , and the unity of the spirit is the bond of peace ; for by one spirit they are all baptized into one body , and do all drink into one spirit : and this is the true gathering of a church , or churches of christ , that is far beyond all profession of true religion , or outward signs , or ceremonies , as that of water baptism , which presbyterians and others use to initiate or enter people into their church , or outward covenants , and contracts or bonds , which these called independents use to initiate or enter people into their church , all which outward things are but mens inventions , as they are now used , whereby to gather , and make up churches : and all this is but mans gathering and work , made things , likenesses and graven images of heavenly things , which the lord hath forbidden , saying , thou shalt not make to thy self any graven image , nor the likeness of any thing in heaven above , &c. exod. 20. for whatever men make , or set up , whether it be church , ordinance , or service , without the spirit and power of god , inwardly moving , assisting , teaching , leading , guiding and ordering them so to do , is but man's work , a thing of man's making ; and all such made things , made faiths , made churches , made worships , made ordinances , without the spirit and power of god inwardly revealed , are to be abolished , shaken and removed , and the voice of god will do it , whose voice of old did shake mount sinai , and the lord hath said , yet once more i shake not the earth only , but the heavens also . and this voice of the lord uttered from heaven , hath both shaken , abolished , and removed many things of mens making already , and in the lords due time , will remove them all ; and every plant that is not of the father's planting , he will pluck it up and throw it away . and this is a warning unto you , o ye churches and people of new-england , altho' babylon like , ye sit as a queen , or have at least so sate some few years ago , and did say in your heart , ye shall see no widdowhood , and have preached it as doctrin , that the sounding of god's voice from heaven , is althogeter ceased in these days : let this be told unto you , it hath not ceased to sound , but still doth , and shall , and the sound of it shall not only shake , but utterly remove , undo , and destroy all your babylonish buildings : and this the lord will do , not by might , nor power ( viz. of man ) but by his own spirit ; and the time hastneth , and blessed shall he be who receiveth warning , and hearkneth unto the counsel of the lord ; he who hath ears to hear , let him hear . 5. and the true church is in god the father , and in the lord jesus christ , 1 thes . 1.1 . and it is built upon christ , that sure foundation , and rock of ages , whom peter confessed unto , which flesh and blood hath not revealed unto him , but the father in heaven : and upon this rock so confessed , and so known and understood , which flesh and blood hath not revealed , but the father in heaven , is the true church built . and this is more than a profession of the true religion : for it is not every one that professeth the true religion , to whom the father in heaven hath revealed the lord jesus christ , as he did unto peter , and as he doth unto every true and faithful believer , and confessor of christ . and the true church that is built on this rock , and every member thereof , they are not only hearers and professors of the words and doctrin of christ , but they are doers of them : but they who do not , although they both hear and say , they are foolish builders , and build upon the sand ; and such are all these visible churches , who have no other thing to qualifie them , but to profess the true religion . now , to profess the true religion , carrieth a two-fold sense , one is , that the religion which people profess , they call , or profess it to be the true religion ; and in this sense , every one that professeth any religion at all ( if he be in earnest ) professeth the true religion ; that is , he esteemeth or professeth his religion to be such . the other sense is , that the religion that is professed , is indeed the true religion , and is not only so called , or professed : and according to this sense , your visible churches , whether presbyterian or independent , are no true churches : for the religion ye profess , is not the true religion of christ jesus , which he , and the prophets , the evangelists , and apostles did teach , as i have already proved in many weighty particulars , yea , in fundamentals , and in the very foundation it self , which is christ jesus , on which the true church is built , and every member thereof . but ye who say , all inward divine revelation of christ is ceased ; ye build not on christ , but on a meer hear-say , and historical report of him : for how can ye build on him , when ye have no belief that christ is nearer unto you , than in some remote place beyond the skies ? can the walls of the house be built on a foundation that is altogether remote from it ? must not the house and the foundation be immediately joyned together ? and must not this foundation be seen , and felt by every member ? and is not this incomparably more than the best profession of true religion ? o ye blind leaders of the blind ! how doth my soul pity you , and the poor people more especially , who are led by you , and whom ye are still seeking to lead , until both ye and they fall into the ditch ; and ye ill deserve your wages , and the many hundreds , yea , thousands of pounds , that poor people pay yearly unto you , and work sore and hard to feed you , and cloath you , and your wives and children , to luxury and wantonness , many of you , while in the mean time , under colour and pretence of feeding the souls of the people , ye famish and starve , yea , poyson and kill them with your false doctrin , as i have , through god's assistance sufficiently made appear , and i hope yet more to make appear , as i have occasion given unto me . 6. and christ jesus , the living , elect , precious corner-stone , the sure foundation is laid in zion , and that zion is not only the heavenly zion above , but the church and people of god on earth ; and christ jesus is one both in heaven without us , and also within us , even the man christ jesus , the same that took hold of the seed of abraham , and is the son of abraham and david , according unto that seed , and he is exalted in heavenly glory in that same seed and nature , in the whole and intire and perfect nature of man , in soul and body , having put off nothing that he had upon earth ; but these weaknesses and infirmities which he did take on him for our sake , even jesus of nazareth , he who was crucified for our sins , and rose again for our justification , who was dead , and is alive , and lives for evermore ; and he who by true faith is joyned to the spirit of christ , by the same he is joyned both to christ in him , and also to christ in heaven , and also to all the saints in heaven , and the innumerable company of angels , and spirits of just men made perfect , and also unto the god and father of our lord jesus christ ; and both god and christ are not only in remote places , and heavens without us , but also in us , and in all his saints , as he hath said , jer. 23.23 , 24. am i a god at hand , saith the lord , and not a god afar off ? do not i fill heaven and earth ? saith the lord. 7. and as to the government , and governors , or rulers of your visible churches , both presbyterian and independent , it is of the same nature with your visible churches , the only qualification of them being an outward profession of christian religion , and an outward call ( which ye are all at a loss , where to begin it , as i have already proved , cap. 4. ) accompanied with some natural or acquired gifts and abilities of letter-learning , reaching no further than the letter of the scripture at best , and oft , or for most part not that ; for ye preach not the letter in the form of sound words of scripture , but have so mingled it with your glosses , and wrested senses and meanings , and words of men's wisdom and intentions , that it is but little of the very letter ye preach . but if ye did preach the letter , and have not that infallible and unerring spirit of christ , which was in the true ministers of christ in former ages , and is now in his true ministers in this age , ye are but at best ministers of the letter , and not ministers of the spirit , and therefore not ministers of the new-testament . and what is the use and end of your government but to keep poor people in bondage under you , and your false doctrin ? and if they do not believe it , but witness against it , then ye cast them out of your synagogues , and yet then will force maintenance from them , as many of you have done . and when ye had power with the magistrates to instigate and stir them up to persecute honest dissenters , to whip , stock , imprison , spoil goods , cut off ears , and also to put to death ( for testifying against your false doctrins ) from your false and fallible spirit , i say , both false and fallible : for seeing ye do not profess to be taught , led and guided by the infallible spirit of christ , which was in the prophets and apostles , and in all true christians , if ye have not this spirit , your spirit is not only fallible , but false , to wit , the spirit of this world ; for there are but two spirits that do teach , lead and guide all men on earth , the one is , that unerring , true and infallible spirit of christ , which leadeth all god's true children , and the other the spirit of this world , which is the very devil himself , the god of this world , that leadeth all unbelievers and ungodly persons in the world ; and this spirit is not only fallible , but false , continually leading into error , as the spirit of truth leadeth into all truth . 8. and how are ye not ashamed to cite ( see confes . cap. 30. sect . 1. ) isa . 9.6 , 7 , acts 20.17 . matth. 28.18 . for your government , and governors and elders of your churches ? because it is said , isa . 9.6 , 7. the government is upon his shoulders ; to wit , christ jesus ? doth it therefore follow it is upon yours ? or can any be governors or rulers in the church under him without he himself , and his holy spirit , power and life , which hath the heavenly authority in it , be known inwardly revealed , which ye deny ? was not the government in the apostles days altogether derived from the power and spirit of christ in them ? but yours is quite another thing ; by your own confession , ye have not that infallible spirit , nor the inward revelation of it . and if ye derive it from the letter , so may any body else , as well as ye , and say , because they have the letter , they are rulers and governors of churches . and as to these elders , mentioned acts 20.17 . they were such whom the holy ghost had made overseers , as is expresly affirmed of them , verse 28. but this ye cannot in truth say , who deny all pretence to inward divine revelation , which they had . nor doth matth. 28.18 . make any thing at all for you , but against you : christ said to the apostles , all power in heaven and in earth is given unto me ; go ye therefore and teach all nations . but when said he so unto you ? or when gave he you such commission ? or suppose ye had such commission , surely ye are very unfaithful unto it , who creep each of you into a house or town , and there only pretend to teach a few that come to hear you . so did not the apostles , but travelled from place to place , and from one nation , city and country to another , and had no certain dwelling-place by virtue of their said commission ; but so do not ye , but commonly keep to one place , unless a fatter benefice , or more yearly sallary and hire invite you to another . will nothing serve your turn but the same commission , which christ gave the apostles ? and if ye have the same commission , are not ye also apostles ? a charge which some of you have laid to us . but why do ye not mind the other part of the commission , and apply that unto you ? acts 1.4 , 8. and being assembled with them , he commanded , that they should not depart from jerusalem , but wait for the promise of the father , which ( he saith ) ye have heard of me , verse 8. but ye shall receive power after that the holy ghost is come upon you , and ye shall be witnesses unto me , both in jerusalem , and in all judea , and in samaria , and unto the uttermost part of the earth ? and though some of you in new-england , have made some show of preaching to the indians , and to have converted them , and got great sums of mony out of old england on that account . alas ! to what have ye converted them ? is it not very manifest , they are generally nothing better than when they were called heathens , but are for most part rather worse ? which of them all have ye turned from darkness to light , and from the power of satan to god , and to know god and christ by his power and spirit , to rule in them ? nay , alas ! ye know it not in your selves , and preach against it , and therefore ye are not like to be instruments to bring others to know it . and if ye say , ye are the successors of the apostles , and therefore the same call , which he gave unto them , he doth give unto you . ye must first prove and demonstrate it , that ye succeed them in the same spirit , power , light and life , and in the same holiness and righteousness of life , as well as in profession , before ye ought to be believed ; but the contrary in all these respects is manifest . nor can ye shew your line of succession , but from the church of rome , and her popes and bishops , which ye have called antichrist , in your confession of faith , cap. 25. sect. 6. as is formerly observed in cap. 4. 9. and as concerning the visibility of the true church , as it hath been granted , that the true church is oft visible , and doth visibly appear in the face of the world , as a city set upon an hill , and doth make a visible and outward profession of her faith in christ jesus , and love to him , both in good words , and good works , yet it is not any thing meerly outward and visible , that doth infallibly prove or demonstrate her to be the true church , or can make her known to people : but it is the same inward light , spirit and power of god inwardly revealed , that doth make known both christ the head , and the true church , which is his body , and every true member thereof : and without the light and spirit of christ inwardly shining , and revealing , both christ and his church is unknown unto men , but by the same is well known , even as christ said unto his disciples , john 15.18 . if the world hate you , ye know that it hated me before it hated you . now , whence is it that the world both hateth christ , and his church ? because it knoweth them not . and paul said , 2 cor. 6.9 . as unknown , and yet well known ; to wit , well known to the children of the light , who dwell in the light , and see and judge of things , and men in the light ; but to them who are in darkness , and are darkness , unknown , and therefore hated and persecuted by them . chap. x. of their two sacraments , called baptism and the svpper . 1. as for the term , or word sacrament , it is no where to be found in all the english translation of the bible received among protestants , nor is there any word either in the hebrew , or greek , that doth properly answer unto it , unless they will translate the greek word that signifieth mystery , to signifie a sacrament , as the old latin hath it in ephes . 5.32 . hoc est magnum sacramentum , i. e. this is a great sacrament ; for which our english translation readeth more properly , this is a great mystery . but if sacrament signifie mystery , then there must be as many sacraments as mysteries ; and faith it self is a sacrament at that rate , and true preaching and prayer , and every other religious matter and thing , all which are holy mysteries . and they who say , there are two sacraments have borrowed these two out of the seven , professed by the church of rome , having cast off , and rejected five of the seven , for which the said church doth accuse these latter churches of sacriledge , and spiritual robbery , to abolish and take away five of the seven sacraments , or rather indeed the sixth also , seeing they believe it only to be but a figure , to wit , that called the eucharist : and to say the truth , they have not one whit more probability , but rather less , for the two sacraments that they have reserved , than for the other five that they have rejected : and they have no cause to accuse the people called quakers , of sacriledge , for denying these two , until they clear themselves of sacriledge for denying five , and give better grounds for reserving these two , than as yet they have given . 2. and as for infants baptism , and sprinkling a child of eight days , or more or less , on the fore-head , and call it baptism , it hath no footing in all the scripture , neither of precept nor practice , as will easily appear , by considering the places of scripture they cite for it . and first , for sprinkling on the fore-head , instead of dipping , they cite heb. 9.10 . to 22. but this sprinkling was not of water , but of blood ; and we do not read that it was only on the fore-head ; and the cups and vessels that were sprinkled with blood or water , were sprinkled all over , and not in one single place . and why did john baptize christ by dipping into water , and others that he baptized , if sprinkling on the fore-head was sufficient in that day ? next , as to the baptizing of infants , they cite for it , gen. 17.9 . where god commanded abraham that every man child of his posterity should be circumcised , and therefore every infant of one , or both the believing parents are to be sprinkled with water . but this consequence is meerly begged , but nothing proved . for the first , we find an express command to abraham : for the second , we find neither command nor practice in all the scripture , nor was the practice of baptizing infants in use , for an hundred of years , and more , after the apostles days , among professors of christianity . and let it be granted , that infants have a right to the grace signified by water baptism , it doth not therefore follow , that the figure or sign belongeth unto them , because they have also a right to christ's body and blood , and yet they confess , the supper is not to be administred unto them . the next place they cite , is coloss . 2.11 , 12. where circumcision and baptism are joyned together , but neither the circumcision , nor the baptism there mentioned , is outward , as is clear , especially of circumcision , that is said , to be made without hands ; and therefore it is not the outward of the flesh , but the inward of the heart ; and so is also the baptism there mentioned , verse 12. buried with him in baptism , wherein also you are risen with him , through the faith of the operation of god. ye see here is nothing of outward water : nor are all they who are baptized with outward water , either buried with christ , or risen with him , but many still alive in old adam , and that too generally . the next place they cite , is matth. 28.19 . but this saith nothing of water , and if it were granted that water-baptism is understood , as it neither is , nor ought to be granted , yet it will not prove that infants should be any more baptized than taught , seeing teaching and baptizing are joyned together . another place they cite , is luke 18.15 , 16. where christ biddeth to suffer little children to come unto him , and forbid them not , and that he blessed them , and laid his hands upon them , we read in scripture ; but that he baptized them either with dipping or sprinkling , we read not , but on the contrary it is expresly said , that jesus himself baptized none , to wit , with water , see joh. 4.2 . their last place they cite , is rom. 11.16 . if the root be holy , so are the branches ; but this doth not prove that infants are more to be baptized , than to have that called the supper administred unto them : and these branches mentioned by paul in that place , rom. 11.16 . were really the unbelieving jews , that because of their unbelief were broken off at that time , yet the root being holy , to wit , abraham , and the promised seed , paul had hope of their conversion , as many as did belong to god's election , as he expresseth it , verse 28. and these were not the immediate children of abraham , but forty generations after abraham , and isaac , and jacob ; and therefore this scripture saith as much for the aged unbelieving children of unbelieving parents , if they have descended from any of their fore-fathers , upwards of forty generations , that were believers ; and if up to forty , why not up to sixty , and further ? yea , to noah , who is the common father of all men , with whom god established his covenant , and with his seed after him , until the end of the world , that all his seed through christ , might receive the benefit of the same , unless they do wilfully reject it ; of which i have said something already in chap. 6. 3. and as for water-baptism in general , we say , it did only properly belong to john's ministry and dispensation , and is expresly contradistinguished from the baptism of christ , both by john , and also by christ himself ; for john did baptize with water unto repentance , but christ who cometh after john , and was before him , who is more worthy than john , he baptizeth with fire , and with the holy ghost ; and no doubt there was a spiritual blessing and grace conveyed unto people , by john's baptism , while it stood in force ; for god never ordained any outward thing , but as it was rightly done , in its day and season , it had some spiritual blessing accompanying it , as all the sacrifices and services of the law : and if any were raised up by the lord , as john was , and could prove , and instruct their being sent to baptize with water , as he was , these to whom they should be sent , ought gladly to receive it ; but to do it by bare imitation , or a meer pretended call , which they cannot prove to be either mediate or immediate , is great presumption , yea , superstition ; and to call that a command of god , which he hath given them no command to practise , is to set up the precepts of men in the room of god's commandments , as the pharisees did of old , and is a taking of his name in vain , for which he will not hold them guiltless . and they can never prove , by all their art and skill , that water-baptism is commanded by christ , mat. 28.18 , 19. for all god's commands and precepts , especially of publick institution , relating to the church , are express , in so many express words , and are not left to be gathered by uncertain and doubtful consequences . when god sent john to baptize with water , water was expressed ; but in the apostles commission to baptize , no mention is made of water , nor no words of institution commanded to be used , but the command is , go , teach and baptize all nations into the name of the father , the son , and the holy ghost . and the name of either the father , or the son , or the holy ghost , is most frequently , if not always used in scripture , to signifie power and life , as the name of the lord is a strong tower : thy name is as ointment poured forth , &c. and whereas they object , first , that the apostles could not baptize with the spiritual baptism . i answer , yea ; they could instrumentally and ministerially , as well as they could convert , and beget sons and daughters unto god ; for they were ministers of the spirit , and did minister of the spirit , both in preaching , and prayer , and laying on of hands , although god only was the principal worker and author . next , they object , that peter and paul , and some others , baptized some with water , and that christ was baptized with water . but none of these prove what they intend , for christ was baptized by john , and also he was circumcised according to the law , and paul circumcised timothy ; and the apostles generally in that day thought fit both to use , and tolerate the use of water-baptism , that belonged to john , and divers other things of the law , which by permission , for a time , and not by any gospel standing commission ; otherwise paul would never have said , he was not sent to baptize , but to preach the gospel ; nor would he have thanked god that he had baptized so few : for it were strange to think that paul would thank god , that he did not so fully obey a gospel precept . in short , if these who are so zealous for water-baptism , were cordially zealous , for the inward and spiritual baptism , they might be the more born with , as men bear with children , that use likenesses and figures of things , that sute most with the age and state of children , and charity might be allowed them in that case , to be as children or babes in christ , if they did hunger and thirst after righteousness , and did wait for the inward appearance and coming of christ's kingdom , and the revelation of it in their hearts , as some such there may be . but these , who altogether are for the outward baptism and supper , and deny wholly the inward and spiritual baptism and supper of christ , which is only known and received by the holy spirit 's inward revelation , no charity can be allowed unto them , to judge them true christians in any degree , not so much as babes , but altogether , for the time , hypocrites and formalists . 4. next , concerning the supper : we grant that christ had an outward supper with his disciples , when he did eat the pascal lamb with them ; and this was a real supper , and not like that which ye now use , that is neither substantial supper nor dinner , being only a little crumb of bread , scarce so big as a nut , and a spoonful of wine , or two , which hath little outward substance , and no inward and spiritual signification unto you , as ye use it , while ye altogether deny , that the saints are partakers of the substance of christ , or that christ really and substantially dwelleth in his saints ; and while ye also deny all inward revelation of him in these latter ages , your supper is a meer shadow , and none of christ's supper , nor of his institution . for when christ did sup with his disciples , in the night wherein he was betrayed , he began with the cup , and blessed , or gave thanks , and said , take this , and divide it among your selves . and next he took bread , and blessed , or gave thanks , and brake it , and gave unto them , saying , this is my body , this do in remembrance of me : likewise after supper he took the cup , saying , this cup is the new-testament in my blood , drink ye all of it , luke 22.14 . to 20. so we see , he used the cup twice , and began and ended with it , but so do not ye ; and though ye seem greatly to blame the church of rome , for not giving the cup to the people , but only the bread , and charge them with mutilating , or dismembring the institution ; if so , do not ye the same in part ? seeing ye use the cup but once , and christ used it twice , and began with it , but so do not ye . and seeing ye say ye have not that infallible spirit that christ had , and gave to the apostles ; and that we find you wholly ignorant of christ's body , and that ye have no discerning of it , nor no taste and savour of his flesh , which is meat indeed , nor of his blood , which is drink indeed , and know not the inward and spiritual supping with christ , we cannot believe , nor acknowledge , that ye presbyterian and independent teachers , have any power to bless either the bread , or the cup , as christ did , or to minister , or give of his body and blood to any people , which true ministers of christ have done , and do at this day , to my certain knowledge and joy , and to the certain knowledge and joy of many thousands with me , and that often in the use of outward eating and drinking , being sanctified and blessed by the word of god and prayer , as we have sat down together , whether many or a few , we have truly witnessed the fulfilling of that saying , luke 24.35 . and they told what things were done in the way , and how he was known of them in breaking of bread. and as it is , verse 30 , 31. and it came to pass , as he sate at meat with them , he took bread , and blessed it , and brake , and gave to them , and their eyes were opened , ( note , even as jonathan's eyes were opened , or lightned , when he did eat the honey ; and as isaac blessed jacob when he did eat what he had prepared of savoury meat for him ; and as the angel blessed abraham , when he did eat of the calf , and the cakes that were set before him ; and as melchizedeck blessed abraham , when he brought him bread and wine ; and divers other the like examples ) and they knew him , &c. even so can many say at this day , to god's praise , in the outward eating and drinking together , as they have sate together , and waited in true silence , until god has been pleased to move some one or other of his faithful servants and ministers of his word of life , and of his flesh and blood , which is spiritual , to pray unto the lord , or give thanks , their outward eating and drinking hath been so blessed unto them , that at one and the same time they have eat both the outward bread with the bodily mouth , and the inward bread , which is spiritual , with the inward & spiritual mouth ; and they have also drunk outwardly the outward cup , and inwardly the inward and spiritual : and so at the same time , they have fed at a two-fold table , and have been both inwardly and outwardly refreshed , nourished and strengthned ; and this also oftentimes , in the use only of inward prayer and thanksgiving , as well as of both inward and outward ; and yet we neither do , nor can limit the spiritual and inward eating of christ's body , and drinking of his blood , to any outward eating or drinking whatsoever . as neither did the ancient christians , who said , that all true believers eat christ's flesh , and drink his blood , daily and hourly ; and so we believe . and no doubt , christ did really give his body and blood unto his disciples at that time , and it was not a bare figure or sign that he gave them , but in the use of the bread and wine , he gave them at the same time , an inward enjoyment of him . and all this we own , and are very glad of such occasions , when we have them , to sit together , and eat and drink both outwardly and inwardly , enjoying a two-fold table and supper at one time , and finding the lord himself spiritually present , and blessing both unto us , and enabling us to receive both his spiritual and temporal blessings , with prayer and thanksgiving : and such breaking of bread we own , from house to house , even outwardly as well as inwardly , with singleness and gladness of heart , as the primitive christians did of old , sometimes in a lesser number , and sometimes in a greater : for at that supper above mentioned , luke 24.30 . there were only present these two disciples , besides christ himself ; so that it is not the number , whether greater or small , that is essential . and also we do believe , and say , that it is our duty , not only in these more solemn eatings and drinkings , to remember the lord's death , and what he hath done , and suffered for us , when we thus eat & drink together , perhaps many belonging to divers families , but also in all our other eatings and drinkings , and at all other times , as it doth please the lord to enable us ; and every true christian hath the lord's death , resurrection , and his great love , and what he hath done and suffered for us , printed as in capital letters , upon his very heart and soul , and writ as a living epistle , with the spirit of the living god , upon fleshly tables ; and that this ought to be done , not only to his more abundant inward and spiritual coming unto us , but to be perpetuated , and continued by all true christians , to the end of the world , and the last coming of christ . and now tell me , wherein we are behind you ? or wherein we fall short of you ? or what excellency , worth , or value hath your supper above , and beyond ours ? but on the contrary , hath not ours the advantage every way ? seeing we have more frequently , both the outward and inward eating and drinking together , than ye have the outward ; and alas , the many lean and dead souls among you , void of inward and spiritual discerning , taste or savour , too manifestly demonstrate , ye are generally strangers to the supper of the lord. and we also acknowledge the outward eating and drinking , is but a figure of the inward , and therefore ought not to be rested in ; but the substance that is invisible and eternal , ought to be minded , and sought after above all . and though we are not for holding up , or preaching of figures meerly institute , for to signifie and represent a thing to come , as were these under the law ; yet such a figure as is natural , and necessarily to be used by us all , as eating and drinking , we may not reject : for the outward eating and drinking is a natural and necessary figure of the inward , even as the whole outward world is a figure of the inward and spiritual , as paul doth expresly call it , 1 cor. 7.31 . see the ●reek . 5. and concerning that ye call your christian-sabbath , which ye say is the first day of the week ; and ye do positively affirm in your confession , that the sabbath was changed from the last day of the week , from the resurrection of christ , unto the first day of the week , and so to continue unto the end of the world ; see confess . cap. 21. sect . 7. but ye bring no sober proof for any such change , and the scriptures ye cite say no such thing , as gen. 2.2 , 3. rev. 1.10 . exod. 20.8 , 10. matth. 5.17 . that place in gen. 2.2 , 3. saith nothing of the first day , but of the seventh day : and what that seventh day is , ye cannot demonstrate . and as to the next scripture , rev. 1.10 . where john saith , he was in the spirit on the lord's day . although it is more than ye can prove from scripture , that the first day of the week is that lord's day ; yet taking it for granted , it doth not therefore follow that it was appointed to be the christian sabbath : but it might be so called , because christ rose upon that day , and honoured that day solemnly , not only with his rising upon it , but appearing at sundry times on that day to his disciples , betwixt his resurrection and ascension ▪ and that the christians did usually and more solemnly meet on that day for publick and religious worship , in honour of our saviour , than on other days , we readily grant ; and so also do we , according to the example of the ancient christians . and all true christians should employ more of their time in religious works and services , both in private and in publick , than the jews did , and ought not to fall short of them , but exceed them . and that beside other times set apart for the worship of god , both in publick and in private , it is commendable in christians to set apart the first day of the week from common and ordinary labour , not only for an ease to their servants and cattel , but also that they may with the more freedom , and cheerful readiness attend upon the lord , and his service , without all incumbrance . for experience doth prove it , that even bodily rest from toyl and labour , doth contribute to the ease of the mind , and is a help , being duly used , to disburthen it from divers weights . for if the body be over-charged with labour , it is a hurt and clog unto the mind in divers respects ? but all this doth not prove , that the first day of the week was appointed for a sabbath , and put in the room of the seventh day of the week , enjoyned to the jews , and people of israel ; for that outward sabbath that was enjoyned unto them , was a sign and figure , as all other outward sabbaths which they had , were , as of weeks , months , years , as well as of days . and when the pure gospel and christian dispensation did take place , all these figurative and shadowy sabbaths were changed to the substance , and that substance or body is christ , according to coloss . 2.17 . but to say , the jewish sabbath is changed into the first day of the week , is to put the first day of the week in the room of the lord jesus christ , which is a great dishonour unto him ; for he is the end and perfection of the law , and of all the shadowy and figurative ordinances thereof : and as the outward temple that the jews had , is not to be changed into another outward temple , but christ is the true temple of the christians , wherein they meet , so he is their sabbath , and not any outward day . next , as to exod. 20.8 , 10. it saith nothing of the first day of the week , nor of one day of seven : all this is but man's invention . but it mentioneth the seventh day , wherein the lord rested from all his works , and that rest signifieth the perfection or finishing of them ; although as it is said , heb. 4. the works were finished from the foundation of the world ; and therefore that seventh day doth signifie christ jesus , the first and the last , who is the alone true rest and sabbath of all the faithful , as he invited , saying , mat. 11.28 . come unto me all ye that labour , and are heavy laden , and i will give you rest . and concerning this spiritual and divine sabbath , or sabbatism , it is said in heb. 4.9 , 10. therefore there doth remain a rest unto the people of god : for he that is entred into his rest , he also hath ceased from his own works , as god did from his ; let us labour therefore to enter into that rest , &c. and verse 3. we which have believed , do enter into rest . by all which it doth plainly appear , that the new-testament understandeth the christian sabbath , not of any outward day , but of christ , which the outward sabbaths of the jews did by way of allegory signifie and hold forth . and lastly , as to matth. 5.17 . where christ saith , he came not to destroy the law , but to fulfil it ; it is not to be understood that he came to keep up , and perpetuate the types and figures of the law , but to put an end to them , and in the room and place thereof to fulfil all the righteousness , equity and justice , that they did signifie or hold forth , which is as the kernal : otherwise ye might argue , as much for upholding the outward circumcision , as the outward sabbath ; and that outward sabbath was not the first day , but the seventh day . and whereas some plead , that the 4th commandment is altogether moral , as well as the other nine that were given forth immediately by the mouth of the lord unto the people , and writ by his finger on the tables of stone ; and therefore is perpetual , and never to be abrogated . if all this be granted , it doth not prove that the first day of the week is there commanded , as these called presbyterians and independents would have it . nor can they who plead for the keeping of the seventh day of the week for the sabbath , prove that the said fourth commandment did enjoyn to the jews the keeping of any outward or natural seventh day of the week ; for their keeping the outward seventh day of the week was enjoyned to them among the other ceremonial laws and precepts , as is clear from exod. 16.23 . and chap. 31.13 , 14. where it is called a sign , to wit , of that spiritual , moral and perpetual sabbath . and therefore if it be granted , that the fourth commandment is altogether moral and perpetual , it doth not follow that the seventh day therein mentioned , is any outward day , or that it enjoyneth any outward day ( for it can all be spiritually understood very well ) as the tenth commandment , thou shalt not covet , doth not enjoyn any outward thing , but reacheth to the heart , and inward part , only , and is altogether spiritual . and as the last commandment of the second table is altogether spiritual , so why may it not be said that the last commandment of the first table is altogether spiritual ? and even the mystick writers among the jews do acknowledge , that not only the seventh day mentioned in the fourth commandment , but all the six days signifie spiritual days and mysteries , as well as the seventh ; of which i shall not particularly enlarge at present . a call and warning from the lord to the people of boston , and new-england , to repent , &c. the burden of the word of the lord that came unto me on the twenty first day of the fourth month , 1688. in the town of boston in new-england , to declare it unto boston its inhabitants , and to the inhabitants of new-england , who have been , or are concerned in opposing , and hardning their hearts against the inward appearance of god , and of his son christ jesus , in the hearts of his servants , and in the living testimonies they have born unto you , to call you to believe in the light of his son christ jesus , who hath enlightned you all , and every one of you , and to turn you from darkness to light , and from the power of satan unto god. oh! repent , repent for your great sins , and transgressions of all sorts , that ye have committed against the lord , and against his holy and divine light and gift in all your hearts , and especially repent of your great hypocrisie , all teachers and people of boston , and new-england every where , who call your selves christians , and have a name to live , but are dead , who draw near unto god with your mouths , and honour him with your lips , but have removed your hearts far away from him , and who have the name of christ oft in your mouths , and think to cover you with his imputed righteousness , while ye are ignorant of his life , and holy power & spirit , and divine nature in your hearts , and while ye are daily crucifying the lord of glory afresh , and putting him to open shame , and treading under foot the blood of the covenant , as the holy scripture declareth concerning some that professed christ jesus in former ages . and this is the state of many of you , yea , of the generality of you , both teachers and people of boston , and new-england , of all sorts , a few names excepted , whom the lord doth honour , and they shall walk with him in white , although ye have sought to dishonour them . and this i have seen from the lord in that pure light of his that maketh all things manifest , and before which all things are naked and bare , which light ye generally despise , and reject , and blaspheme , calling it , a meer natural light , and insufficient to lead unto god ; and the children of it ye have hated , reproached , and mocked with cruel mockings , whereby ye have sufficiently declared your selves to be born after the flesh , and not after the spirit . oh ye blasphemers against god , and his temple ( which is his light ) and them that dwell therein ! repent , repent of your blasphemies , and hard speeches , and hard thoughts against gods inward appearance , by his holy word , light and spirit in all your hearts : and repent of all your pride , vanity , folly , excess in meats , drinks , and apparel , who though ye profess your selves to be more pure , and more purely reformed , than other churches , so called , yet in the sight of god ye are nothing better , but many of you worse ; and the sin of sodom ; which was pride , and excess , and fulness of bread , is the sin of many of you , especially of the richer sort . oh , unthankful nation ! do ye thus requite the lord , who are jesurun like , that since ye waxed fat , have kicked against the lord , and are gone from that tenderness , sobriety , and simplicity that was among you , and your fathers sometime ago : oh! how quickly have ye degenerated , and departed from the lord , of whom ye have made , and still are making a great profession ! the anger of the lord is ready to break out against you yet more than formerly , unless ye repent : and though his hand hath been manifestly stretched out against you , in manifest judgments , and especially in blastings and unfruitful seasons , and other judgments , and plagues , and strokes upon you , yet ye have not seen nor regarded it , many of you , yea , most of you ; but ye are like unto them , concerning whom the prophet isaiah testified , saying , lord , when thy hand is lifted up , they will not see ; but they shall see , and be ashamed for their envy at the people . and this is the word of the lord unto you , all teachers , and people of all sorts , of boston and new-england , all such of you who are unbelievers , and have not faith in the light of god and christ within you , but place all your confidence , faith and reliance upon the imputed righteousness of christ without you , and what he did , and suffered for you unto justification , while in the mean time ye know not christ within you , and so are in the state of reprobation , or rejection , as such ; and while ye there remain , opposing christ without , to christ within , professing to own him without , but denying him within , and the revelation of him within in mens hearts , and crucifying him by your daily great sins and iniquities of all sorts . but is christ divided ? or can any have a right and sincere faith in christ , as he came and suffered death in the flesh , and rose again and ascended into glory , unless they believe in him , and own and witness him revealed in them , their king , priest and prophet , lord , judge , and lawgiver , their head and foundation laid in them , christ in them the hope of glory ? and all who sincerely own him within them , have the benefit and comfort of his death , and sufferings , and righteousness , that he accomplished without them , when he came in the flesh , and none others ; and this is unto you all the word of the lord , whether ye will hear , or forbear . and oh ! repent , repent of all your self-righteousness , and self-willings , and self-runnings and actings of all sorts , in that ye call your duties and performances , wherein ye are daily exercising your selves , without the lord 's holy spirit , and power , and life inwardly revealed , to which ye are strangers , and many of you wilfully ignorant , hating and refusing to be informed or instructed , even many or most of you . and all ye who have made light of the cruel sufferings of the lord's servants , called in derision quakers , and some of whom have been put to death at boston , by a most unrighteous and inhuman law , wherein they who either made or executed the same , have shewed themselves more inhuman , cruel and barbarous than many , or most of all sorts of mankind . oh! mourn before the lord for this great sin , and for shedding the blood of the innoccent , wherewith your land is still defiled , and the iniquity of it is not yet done away , nor shall , nor indeed can , but by deep repentance , mourning and contrition of soul , and godly sorrow , and unfeigned repentance , and turning unto the lord ; and let it not be an excuse unto you , that many of you were not the actors in that great sin , but ye have not mourned for it before the lord , many , yea , most of you , and therefore it lieth upon you : and this is the word of the lord unto you . g.k. a copy of this was set up in the most publick place , in the town of boston , the 21 st of the 4 th month , 1688. boston , the 12th of the 5th month , 1688. to james allen , joshua moody , samuel willard , cotten mather , preachers in the town of boston in new-england . friends and neighbours ; i being well assured , both by the spirit of god in my heart , and the testimony of the holy scriptures , that the doctrin ye preach to the people is false , and pernicious to the souls of people in many things , do earnestly desire and entreat you , and every one of you , the preachers in the town of boston , to give me a fair and publick hearing , or meeting with you , either in one of your publick meeting-houses , or in any other convenient place , where all who are desirous to come may have liberty , and let the time be as soon as may , as either to day in the afternoon , or to morrow in the fore-noon , but rather than fail , if ye will give me any assurance to have a meeting with you , i will attend your leasure for two or three days to come , providing once this day you send me your positive answer ; and if ye give me a meeting with you , i profer in true love and good-will , by the divine assistance , to shew and inform you , that ye teach and preach unto the people , many false and unsound principles ( contrary to the doctrin of christ , sufficiently declared in the holy scriptures ) your doctrin being according to the catechism and confession of faith of the church of boston and new-england , which i have diligently examined , and find it to be the same , with that published by the assembly of presbyterians and independents at westminster in old england , about forty years ago , excepting some few small things , wherein some of you may differ in church government and discipline , and if ye cannot receive my information , i profer to debate these things fairly with you , which i call false doctrin , and to vindicate our principles , who in scorn are called quakers , whom ye have falsly charged , for which some of our worthy friends have suffered death at boston , and let the scriptures testimony be the only external rule , test and touch-stone of our said debate . and the particular things i charge on you , as being false doctrin , and contrary to the doctrin of the holy scripture ( beside many others that i could mention ) are these following : 1. that god hath committed his counsel wholly to writing , even since the apostles days , the former ways of god's revealing his mind to his people being ceased . 2. that god hath fore-ordained what-ever cometh to pass . 3. that god hath not afforded , or provided sufficiency of grace and means of salvation unto all mankind , whereby they may be saved . 4. that there are reprobate infants , that die in infancy , and perish eternally , only for adam 's sin imputed unto them , and derived into them . 5. that the light that is in every man , that convinceth them of their sins , and calleth them to leave and forsake them , is only natural , and no ways sufficient to enable any man to do any work acceptable unto god. 6. that christ hath not dyed for all men. 7. that justification is only by christ's righteousness , without us , imputed unto us , and received by faith alone , and not by any righteousness of god or christ infused into us , or wrought in us . 8. that beginnings of true sanctification cannot be fallen from totally . 9. that no man in this life , by any grace of god given him , or to be given him , can perfectly keep the commandments of god , but doth daily break them in thought , word and deed. 10. that no man ever since the apostles days are assisted by any infallible spirit , to preach , pray or write ; and that to speak and pray by the moving of the holy ghost , as the prophets and holy men witnessed of old , is ceased . 11. that human and outward learning , without the saving grace of god , and the holy spirits inward revelation and inspiration , is sufficient to qualifie a man to be a preacher of the gospel . 12. that the scriptures ought to be believed only for their own outward evidence and testimony , and not for the inward evidence and testimony of the holy spirit in mens hearts . i expect your answer some time this day , and remain your friend , g.k. having received a blasphemous and heretical paper , subscribed by one george keith , our answer to it and him is , if he desires conference , to instruct us , let him give us his arguments in writing , as well his assertions : if to inform himself , let him write his doubts : if to cavil and disturb the peace of our churches ( which we have cause to suspect ) we have neither list nor leasure to attend his motions : if he would have a publick audience , let him print : if a private discourse , though he may know where we dwell , yet we forget not what the apostle john saith , ephes . 2.10 . july the 12th , 1688. james allen , joshua moody , samuel willard , cotten mather . to james allen , joshua moody , samuel willard , cotten mather , called preachers , in boston . i received yours , wherein ye give no satisfactory nor reasonable answer to my fair proposal ; ye call my letter unto you , a blasphemous & heretical paper : but wherein it doth contain either heresie or blasphemy , ye have not mentioned , far less demonstrated : i pity your ignorance , and i perceive ye are in the same darkness and blindness of mind that the jews were in , who accused the lord jesus christ of blasphemy ; and if he were now among you in the flesh , he would meet with the same entertainment from you ; for the measure of the same spirit of truth , which is in his servants ( that dwelt in him in all fulness ) ye blaspheme against . but it is well ye have not the magistrates sword now at command , which your brethren sometime ago had , and made a woful and miserable use of it , to turn it against the innocent . and now that ye have no carnal weapons to fight with , we can find no spiritual weapons that ye have : but by silly and frivolou excuses ye seek to lurk and hide in corners , when ye are fairly , and justly required to appear in open field , to defend your false doctrin . to whom shall i liken or compare you , but to night-birds , and beasts of prey , as they are described , psal . 104.20 , 21 , 22. thou makest darkness , and it is night , wherein all the beasts of the forest do creep forth , the young lyons roar after their prey , &c. the sun ariseth , they gather themselves together , and lay them down in their dens . for now that your sun of persecution is gone down , and the sun of peace is arisen , ye have no courage to appear in the open and fair field , to defend your evil cause , only in your dens , and houses into which ye have crept , where the honest people called quakers , have not occasion to hear you ; ye speak evil of things ye know not , and lie and rail against the truth . and that ye ( and not we the people called in scorn quakers ) are blasphemers , i have not only charged , but demonstrated in sundry particulars , in this treatise . and yet because i judge ye do so in ignorance , i believe it is pardonable , and if ye sincerely repent of it , it shall be forgiven you . but why are ye afraid of the light , to appear in publick , to try your spiritual strength and weapons , when your carnal are gone . is not that scripture fulfilled upon you , job 24 ▪ 16 , 17. in the dark they dig through houses , which they had marked for themselves in the day time , they know not the light ; for the morning is to them , even as the shadow of death ; if one know them , they are in the terrors of the shadow of death . i do say it in uprightness , i writ not this , boastingly , or glorying in my strength , as of self , my alone glorying is in the lord , and in his truth , which is the strongest of all , that god in his infinite mercy hath made known unto me , and the truth in the mouth or pen of the youngest child , is too strong for all the goliahs among you . remember that memorable passage of the barley-cake , that tumbled into the host of midian , as it was represented to one in a dream , which was the occasion of gideon's taking courage to go out against the midianites , who was prospered with great success , though he and his men were but a small company , judge 7. and also remember , how at the sounding of the rams horns , the walls of jericho fell down flat to the ground . men of an evil conscience are commonly afraid . or if ye fear your people , lest if any publick dispute should be , they might be in danger to change their mind : is it not the most effectual way to rescue your sheep , if they be in danger , suppose we be wolves ( as we thank god we are none ) to appear openly , and in a manly way against us , and not to suffer the wolves to hunt the shepherds , for that were a strange thing ; but that if ye be shepherds , ye hunt the wolves and seek them out every way , and by all means , and be glad of every occasion to find them ? and is your preaching to the people so little effectual that many years teaching them , is not sufficient to save them from the danger of two or three hours fair debating of things ? if your people were built on the rock , ye needed not fear that they would be so soon shaken . in your very short letter , ye have very many idle and frivolous suppositions . if this , and if that ; so that in six lines or seven , ye have five needless suppositions , and labour as men in a sweat , or at least seem so to do , to find out the design or intention of my writing unto you , the which is plain , without any enquiry ; for i told you very plainly , the end of my writing , was to inform you , that ye preach unto the people many false and unsound principles , pernicious to the souls of people . and if ye could not receive my information , i profered to debate these things fairly with you . and though i neither had , nor have the least mind to cavil , yet i most assuredly believe , that the peace of your churches is not the true peace of christ , but that both ye and they are set down in a false peace and rest . and therefore he , who at the command of christ jesus , and by the motion of his eternal spirit , doth proclaim a holy war , and soundeth an alarm in your ears , that christ himself is come , and more abundantly coming to take away your false peace , and to send a spiritual sword and fire unto you , is really your best friend , and such a friend i am unto you , whether ye will hear or forbear . for i came not unto you in my own will , but a necessity from the lord , by his living motion in my heart , and his living word , that was , and is as a sword and a fire , did lie upon me to clear my self among you . and seeing your churches are no true churches of christ , as i have sufficiently demonstrated in this treatise , their peace is no true peace , and therefore must and will be broken , and the sooner it be broken , the better it will prove to many poor souls among you , in order to their being gathered unto the lord. and whereas ye say in your letter , if he would have a publick audience , let him print : ye see how i have complyed with your proposal , yet not in your will , but in the will of the lord , who hath laid it upon me , and hath assisted me in this undertaking , to write this treatise , and direct it more particularly unto you , and more generally to all the presbyterian and independent teachers and people , both in new-england , or elsewhere , to whose hands by divine providence it shall come . and i require this reasonable demand of you , that seeing ye have said , let him print , that after it is come unto you , ye would seriously read it , and if it please god by it , as an instrument to convince you , through his eternal spirit , give god the glory , and confess to the truth : but if otherwise , that still ye think ye have truth on your side , then appear in print openly to defend your cause , not with railing and lies , but solid arguments , if ye can produce them . and if in some places i seem to have appeared sharp unto you , or your brethren , in this undertaking , i would have you to consider , that on a due examination , my arguments and reasons are full as sharp as my charges or conclusions ; and sharp premisses can well allow to have sharp conclusions . and what sharpness or tartness , or seeming severity i have used , true love and compassion to souls , as well as zeal to god's glory hath constrained it . sweet potions of physick are not always the most safe . the true prophets of god were generally led and moved of god , to reprove sharply the false prophets of old. and christ , and the apostles , and other true teachers , did sharply reprove false teachers in that day ; and there is the same cause now , and the same spirit of truth , and true zeal now that moveth in god's true servants in measure in this day . the precious souls of many thousands lie at stake , and therefore there ought to be plain dealing , and no daubing with untempered morter , or sowing pillows under arm-holes . i know the wrath of man doth not work the righteousness of god , and i have laboured to keep free from that human passion : and whether i have kept clear and free of it , i can , and do freely submit to the judgment of the spiritual man , who hath a spiritual discerning , and is able to judge ; but to the carnal man's judgment i have no reason to submit . and as i freely submit my spirit to be tryed , so the doctrin to him that is able , and above all , i appeal to the holy scripture , as the best outward test and touch-stone , and to the inward opening of the holy spirit , in all that are sensible of it , without which ye cannot but err , not knowing the scriptures , nor the power of god. ye decline my coming privately to your houses , citing for your warrant , john 2. verse 10. but i had no such design ; however , ye miserably misapply that place of scripture , as ye are wont to do many more . for ye take it for granted , that i bring another doctrin , than the doctrin of christ and the apostles , which i altogether deny . secondly , what john did write , was to a private woman , and therefore doth not quadrate to you , who reckon your selves publick men , and rulers as well as teachers and pastors in the church ; and i do not find any command or practice in all the scripture for you to decline a fair dispute with men , suppose hereticks or false teachers , unless ye have first dealt with them , in order to convince them : and even ye ought not to reject an heretick , till after the first and second admonition , according to scripture , but ye never as yet gave me your first : and he who is an heretick , is self condemned , which i bless god , i am not ; and ye pretend not to that spiritual discerning , whereby ye can know me to be such . it is not always one , nor divers errors or mistakes in judgment , that maketh men worthy of that odious name of heretick . the apostle john , and all the other apostles had the infallible spirit of truth , and that gave them a discerning infallibly to judge both doctrins and spirits ; but this ye neither have , nor lay claim to : and yet we find that the apostles did not shun to discourse and debate with men of ill principles , as occasion and season required . and christ also did unweariedly reason with opposers of all sorts , jews , pharisees , sadducees , &c. and paul disputed daily in the school of cyrannus , with them that opposed , and with epicureans and libertines , and others at athens , and went into the jews synagogues , and reasoned with them ; and did not excuse themselves with your silly evasion , that these men were false teachers , and therefore ought not to be disputed with . the scripture commandeth , that in meekness we should instruct them that oppose themselves , if god peradventure may give them repentance . and though this is not the work of all private christians , who have not a publick gift of teaching , and are not called to that work , yet this is no defence unto you , who pretend to be publick teachers . and if it be so , that false teachers are on no account to be received into houses , ye little consider how this weapon may ere long be turned against your selves : for my hope is , that in due time , many people , both in boston and new-england , shall have their eyes opened by the spirit of the lord , which ye blaspheme , to see your sort to be these false teachers , who bring not the doctrin of christ and the apostles , and the houses ye preach in , not being your houses , but the houses of the people , they shall not any more receive you into them , and this warrantably enough , according to your own words . but seeing ye are so unwilling that any called a quaker , should come into your houses , why should ye receive their goods ? to wit , their kettles , pewter , houshold-stuff , corn and cattel , as some , yea , many of your brethren have done , and used them as your own , though unjustly taken away from the true owners , because they would not give you maintenance . a rare and unparalled practice , no where to be traced in all the scripture , nay , not by false prophets and teachers , in like manner as ye have done . and when our honest friends have expostulated with you , why ye crave wages of them , who do not hear you ; ye have oft told them , the door is open , and have invited them to come ; yea , and some have been fined for not coming to your houses , some call churches ; but now , by your words , no quaker ( because , as ye suppose , he bringeth not the true doctrin ) is to be received into your houses ; and if this be not a contradiction , and a piece of confusion , like most of your work , let the impartial judge . and your citing places of scripture so frequently , contrary to the very intention and end of them , as i have sufficiently proved in this treatise , i know not to what other thing i can better compare it , than to turkish pirats at sea , who hang out an english flag or colours , on purpose to deceive the unwary mariners . and as i look upon you , the four preachers at boston , above-named , to be more particularly concerned in this treatise , so i do not except any others , either in new-england or any where else , who hold the same principles with you , but i do reckon them obliged , either to confess to the truth , upon real conviction ; or if otherwise , to produce their reasons against that which we believe to be the truth . i remain your real well-wisher and friend , the 21 st of the 7 th month , 1688. g. k. postscript . ye shall find the twelve particular doctrins which i charged upon you and your brethren , to be false , proved to be so in distinct heads , as followeth ; the first , tenth , eleventh and twelfth articles , in cap. 1 , 2 , 3 , 4. of this treatise ; the second and fourth , cap. 5. the third , fifth and sixth , cap. 6. the seventh in cap. 7. the eighth and ninth , in cap. 8. and the 9th cap. treateth of your visible church , and church-government ; and the 10th of your sacraments and sabbath-day . there are many other things in your said confession and catechism , contrary to the truth and doctrin of the holy scriptures , which i have passed by at present , but these i have here examined , and proved to be contrary to the holy scriptures , being the principal , and some of them fundamental , i did find my mind most concerned in ; the which being overturned , the other errors that are built upon them shall fall with them . a brief answer to some gross abuses , lies and slanders , published some years ago , by increase mather , late teacher of a church at boston in new-england , in his book , called , an essay for the recording of illustrious providences , &c. and by nath. morton , in his book , called , new-england's memorial . the said increase mather , in the eleventh chapter of his book , called , an essay , &c. relateth a long story of three mad quakers , called , thomas cases crew , one of them being a man called denham , and two women , who went down to south-hold , and they met with samuel banks of fairfield , the most blasphemous villain , as they call him , that ever was known in these parts , and some other inhabitants of that town on long-island , where they fell a dancing and singing after their diabolical manner ; and how at that time they proselyted one , called thomas harris ( belonging to boston ) to be of their way , and how after some short time , the said harris was found dead by the sea-side , with three holes like stabs in his throat , and no tongue in his head. and two other stories he subjoyneth , concerning these of the same crew , or company , called the singing and dancing quakers ; the last hath in it a relation , how the said jonathan denham ( alias singleterry ) and one mary rosse , did many frentick and diabolical tricks ; and among others , that he sacrificed a dog at plymouth-colony in new-england . and all these stories he doth relate , on purpose to abuse that honest and sober people , called quakers , without making any distinction , nor giving the least information to the world , how that the body of people called quakers , do not in the least own these ungodly and wicked people , mentioned by him , called thomas cases crew , nor any others of that sort , but have all along declared against them , and shewed the greatest dislike and abhorrency of their spirit and ways , that is possible , and all their mad and frentick tricks and freaks of singing and dancing , or any others of all kinds : and the people called quakers have suffered more abuses and insolencies , by that ungodly and wicked crew of thomas case , and others of that spirit , than any other people in these countries , whereof many sober people that do not profess themselves to be quakers , can bear witness both in long-island , and in road-island , and also at newer-sinks in east-jersey , how for many years they have molested them , frequently at their meetings , and more especially at our friends general meetings at oyster-bay , and rhoad-island , and divers other places . and when the said jonathan denham , and mary rosse were whipt by the order of the magistrates of plymouth , there were some of the honest people called quakers , present , who openly declared before the people , that the quakers did not at all own them to be of their society ; and did declare their loathing and abhorrency of their practices , and that they could not own them to be sufferers for christ's sake : and though they assume to themselves the name of quakers , and call themselves the new quakers , yet that will not follow , that they are of the society of that sober and honest people : for it is not the name or profession , that is the sign , or mark of distinction owned by that people , who own none to be of their society or fellowship , unless they walk in the truth , as well as profess it ; and the truth leads into all sobriety and gravity in all things , but into none of these mad gestures , and ungodly singings and dancings , under the pretence of raptures of heavenly joy. for although we own singing with the holy spirit , and with understanding and discretion , and giving thanks unto god , according to the scriptures , and the example of the primitive christians , yet the singing of such ungodly persons we never did , nor can own ; and we believe that weeping and howling , and bitter mourning is more proper for them . and for dancing , it was never a thing owned by that people , nor is at this day ; only thomas case and his crew lately , or of late years , have run into that , and other mad practices , by satan's instigation , nor does that crew or company of thomas case , nor himself agree in professed principles , with the people called quakers , unless it be in some general things , common to all sorts : for they are plain ranters and libertines , and upon due search and examination , their chief principle doth agree with the presbyterian and independent confession of faith , rather than with the quakers . for these ranting crew of case's followers , and himself , do say , that whatever they do , they are constrained to do it , and cannot do otherwise . and is not this the same that your confession of faith saith , that god hath fore-ordained infallibly , and unchangably whatever cometh to pass , without making any distinction ? and this increase mather hath exactly followed , and imitated the practice and example of the ancient , malicious and persecuting heathens , who , when any unlucky thing happened to be said or done , by any called christians , although they were no christians , but only assumed the name on purpose to deceive , these malicious heathens did throw it all upon the christians , without making any distinction . and the like concerning these rusticks , that rose up in war against their lawful princes in germany , and the mad crew that followed john of leiden ; the adversaries of truth did impute all this as the proper effect of the reformation . and thus also in old england , the ungodly sayings and practices of ranters and libertines ▪ have been odiously cast upon the people called quakers ; whereas it is well known that the people called quakers , have always with great zeal , opposed the ranters and libertines , both in their principles and practices , and have shewed their zeal against them , both in disputing and printing against them , more than any people have done ; and have been a great occasion and means of suppressing that evil spirit in them , so that little of it hath for many years openly appeared in old england ; and the same ranting spirit is greatly decaying of late years , in these american parts , and we hope ere long it shall be quite gone . and let the impartial judge , whether it can be any other thing but malice , as well as rashness ( as he hath shewed his rashness and folly in some other passages of his life , if not malice , that hath occasioned him for some time past to abscond , and depart from the place , where he preached at boston ) in this increase mather , to charge the crimes of the guilty upon the innocent , without distinction , when it is notoriously known , both in new-england , and in all other places , where the people called quakers live , that they never did own any of these people , from the first instant , that they appeared in any of these practices . and seeing ye of the presbyterian and independent churches of new-england , cannot but acknowledge , that too many unlucky and unchristian practices have fallen out , and have been committed by your church-members , as whoredom , drunkenness , and and the like , &c. yet if when upon your first discovery of these things , ye have disowned them , and sufficiently cleared your selves of them , we are more men , and more reasonable than to charge these things upon you : and when judas betrayed christ his lord and master , though he was one of the twelve , and numbred among them , should therefore this great crime of judas be cast upon the eleven that were innocent ? or when david committed these two great sins of murder and adultery , should this be cast upon the faithful people of god in that day , who were in society formerly with him ? or should the crime of the incestuous person at corinth , because of him , be cast upon all other christians ? if this be not equal , ( as all sober men will say , it is not equal ) it is no more equal , but abominably unjust , to throw the crimes of thomas case , or his crew , upon the honest people called quakers , of whose society and spirit they are not . and the said increase mather may with the same impudence , charge all the abominable heresies of the manichees , nicolaitans , ebionites , and all others upon the christians , because all went under that general name of christians in these days . and these of case's crew , they call themselves christians , and so doth increase mather , doth it therefore follow , that their crimes on that only account should be charged upon him ? let him see how he can answer to these things , or any of his brethren , or kindred for him , in his absence . it wanteth to be inserted in his book , that what hath befallen him of late , is a remarkable judgment of god upon him , for his injustice to the quakers , and his unjust charging the innocent with the crimes of the guilty . nor is his last story , concerning one robert churchman , living at balsham in cambridge-shire in old england , related by h. moor , of any more weight or validity , to discredit the religion or profession of the people called quakers , than the former . why ? the said churchman had only some inclination to be a quaker , ( but we do not find in all the relation , that ever he was a professed quaker , and owned by that people ) and some whimsies , or fancies did take him in the head for some time , that he supposed he was inspired with the spirit of god , and that the spirit of god did speak in him ; and at last , it appeared that it was not really so , but that the man was under some mistake , or delusion , or suppose a real possession of the devil , or was mad : what can all this say in the least , to discredit the quaker's religion , or principle ? have there not been mad people , and whimsical , both of the presbyterian and independent churches ? yea , doth not increase mather relate how , that ann cole of hartford in new england , that was esteemed a godly and gracious woman , and i suppose a member of some independent church , or presbyterian , otherwise it is not like he would have so commended her , that she was really bodily possessed with the devil ( see his fifth chapter ) but this doth not infer , that either the presbyterian , or independent profession of religion , by increase mather his own judgment , is of the devil ; yea , and some belonging to their churches in new-england , have very lately been convicted of witchcraft at boston . it cannot be denied , but that madness , and melancholy whimsies and fancies , may befall some of all professions , called christians , the causes of which are best known unto the lord. but it is altogether unmanly , and inhuman , as well as unchristian , to charge these things upon the whole profession . we have always asserted it , that it is one thing to profess to be led by the spirit of god , and another thing to be really and in deed led by it . we are not ignorant how many have both said and done very bad things , under a pretence of being led by the spirit of god , and of having the spirit to be their rule ; and yet this is no argument against the leading and rule of the spirit of god , no more than it is an argument against the scripture , that many have done bad things , and pretended they have had the scripture to be their rule in what they did ; as in the late wars in old england and scotland , when they rose up against the lawful authority , wherein many both presbyterians and independents were concerned , they all did pretend they had the scripture to be their rule in what they did ; and yet surely , the scripture was no rule nor warrant unto them in these bad practices . the leadings of the true spirit of god are known , both by the first motions , and also by the effects and fruits that follow after ; and that is to deny all vngodliness and vnrighteousness , and to live soberly , and godly , and righteously in this present world , and to follow , and be found in doing whatsoever things are true , honest , just , pure , virtuous , and praise worthy , and of good report among these who have a spiritual ability to judge of things that differ , as too many have not . and we are well assured , that the spirit of god never teacheth , nor leadeth any to think , say , or do what is contrary to the declared will of god in the holy scriptures , nor to that holy and righteous law , that is writ by the finger of god upon the hearts of men universally , which is the substance of the decalogue that god writ upon the two tables of stone . and we readily grant , that whoever pretend to follow the spirit of god , to be their inward guide and rule , should be very cautious and wary , lest the evil spirit that doth , and can transform himself into many likenesses , but always short of the truth ; step in and deceive . but there is a most safe and sure way for every one , to be sure , that they are not deceived , and shall never be , in any matter of moment , and that is for every one to be faithful unto god in these moral duties , or any other things which they know infallibly , and are generally agreed upon by all christians , to be good things , for such have the promise of god , that they shall be preserved from being deceived . and whereas the said increase mather hath writ so many remarkable judgments of god , that have come upon notorious offenders , on purpose to record them in print ; and that he saith , cap. 11. we may not judge of men meerly by outward accidents , which befall them in this world , &c. and some lines after , he saith , nevertheless a judgment may be so circumstanced , as that the displeasure of heaven is plainly written upon it in legible characters : and in this he saith true , but he should have added , that such men who can read the same , must not be blind , but have the true eye opened in them , otherwise they will make a wrong construction of these things . there wants to be inserted , or added to his book the many signal and manifest judgments of god , that came upon the people of new-england in general , and upon divers particular persons , the main actors , for that horrible persecution they raised against that honest people called quakers , and putting to death four of the lord's servants , for which the name of these actors and abettors , are a stink over many places of the world : and of these judgments in general , the blasting of their wheat generally ever since they put our worthy friends to death at boston ; and the indian wars that soon after followed , whereby many english were destroyed ; and after that , but of late years , a dreadful visitation of the small-pox , called by some the black pock , that cut off very many , both at boston , and else-where , of which they were fore-warned by a woman that came from barbadoes , and went into some of their meetings , with her face all made black , for a sign of what was coming upon them , she being one of these people called quakers , and owned by them in that very testimony , which she declared , she was moved by the lord to come from barbadoes to bear among them , her name being margaret brewster ; to which may be added , the taking away their charter , and power ( which they so grosly abused , in turning the sword against the innocent ) one cause of which was their persecuting the quakers unto death ; and the manifest judgments of god that came upon divers particular persons , notorious persecutors of that innocent people , are very observable , as major adarton , who joyned in passing sentence of death against some of these servants of the lord who suffered death at boston , who not long after was killed with a cow ; and that horton , preacher at boston , a great persecutor , who dyed suddainly , as he was walking in his house after sermon , and captain davenport , another great persecutor , who was killed with lightning . and though the said increase mather doth relate the suddain deaths of both these men , he altogether omitteth these great circumstances , of their being great persecutors ; the which ommission , whether it was wilfully in him , or not , i shall not determine . but it is the more memorable , that the said major adarton , being warned before-hand , of the judgment of god , he made light of it , as i was informed by some in new-england , who had the relation of it , from some that did so warn him , being of that persecuted people . and also it is very memorable , how one of these persecuted servants of the lord , called quakers , did plainly fore-tell , that the house of governor indicot , a greater persecutor , should be left desolate , and become a dunghil ; as did accordingly come to pass ; and hath been observed by divers , to have been a real prophecy , divine justice and providence did so bring it about . there are many other instances and examples might be mentioned , some of which i refer to george bishop his book , called , new-england judged , to be there read and considered . i shall only add one passage more , which i was informed of , and had it writ from some of the people of barnstable , how that from an honest-man , a quaker , in the town of barnstable , were taken four cows , with some calves , the quaker's name being ralph jones , who is yet alive ; and these cattel were taken away by the preacher of that town , his son-in-law , who had married his daughter , and returned to the priest as a part of his wages . the priest sent to ralph jones , to tell him , he might have two of his cows returned to him , if he would send for them : but he never sent , and so the said priest used them , and disposed of them as his own , killed one of the calfs , and sent a part of it to his daughter , that lay in child-bed ; she no sooner did eat a little of the calf , but fell into a great trouble , and cryed , return home the man's cows , i hear a great noise of them ; and so dyed in that trouble . the priest alledged the quakers had bewitched his daughter , although it cannot be proved , that ever they had any business with her . but to what evil construction will not malice and hypocrisie , and covetousness bend a thing ? some time after the said preacher killed some of these cows , to be eat in his house , saying , he would try if the quakers could bewitch him ; and not long after he dyed , even before the flesh of these cows were all eat . the passage is so fresh in that town , that it is acknowledged by divers of the neighbours to be true : and as great havock was made upon this honest man , and upon many in sandwich , a neighbouring town , and in many other places , so much more might have been expected , had not their violence been restrained by the king 's granting an indulgence to all tender consciences . next , as to nath. morton , in his book , called new-england's memorial , pag. 157. he chargeth the quakers with corrupt and damnable doctrin in the following particulars . 1. that the holy scriptures were not for the enlightning of man , nor a setled and permanent rule of life . the which charge is false ; for we have granted , that the scriptures are a rule of life , & so we do still , & the best outward rule that can be found : but we say , they are not the only rule , nor , being compared with the inward rule of god's holy spirit , are they above it , but inferior and under it , and ought only to be used in subordination to it . and if the scripture were the only rule , as our adversaries say , then all poor heathens should have no rule , nor law , and consequently no sin , nor judgment , which is false . and we deny not , but the scriptures are a means of our enlightning , as god the father of lights , is pleased to cause his light to shine unto us in our hearts , in the serious and faithful hearing , reading and meditating on the scriptures , &c. but not otherwise , even as the air , or windows of a house , are means of letting in the sun 's light to us ; but if the sun shine not , neither the air nor window can give us light . 2. that they denyed the manhood of the lord jesus christ , and affirmed , that as man he is not in heaven . this is a notorious false charge , which they can never prove : and in this treatise in several places , i have given a large testimony to the man christ jesus in heaven ; and how he is the object and foundation of the christians faith , as the mystery of his coming in the flesh , death and sufferings , &c. is inwardly opened , revealed and applyed by the holy spirit in men's hearts . 3. that they deny the resurrection of the dead . this is also a most false charge , which they can never prove : but because we deny their carnal conceptions of the resurrection , and hold us to scripture-words , which is most safe , therefore they have so belyed us . and for the more satisfaction of the reader , i refer him to a little book called , the principles of truth , published by some noted men of the quakers , in which book it is expresly affirmed , that we ( to wit , the quakers ) believe , that the same body which is laid down , shall be raised up at the resurrection of the dead , as much as a natural body , can be the same with a spiritual body , on an earthly body can be the same with a heavenly body , according to the scriptures testimony ; it is sown natural , but raised spiritual , and the glory of the heavenly is one , and the glory of the earthly is another . and this may satisfie any sober enquirer : and paul writing concerning the resurrection of the dead , saith , that is not first which is spiritual , but that which is natural , ( or animal ) and afterwards that which is spiritual , 1 cor. 15.46 . and vers . 49. as we have born the image of the earthly , we shall also bear the image of the hevenly : he that readeth , let him understand . 4. that an absolute perfection in holiness , or grace is attainable in this life . 5. that they placed their justification upon their patience , and sufferings for their opinions , and on their righteous life ; both which are grosly false charges , and the contrary of which i have shewed in this treatise at length in their proper places . 6. they allowed not , nor practised any civil respect to magistrates , parents , &c. this also is grosly false , there are divers other ways sufficient whereby to shew both our civil and christian respect to magistrates and parents , &c. ( without either doffing the hat , or cringing ) and that both in words and gestures . there are only two other things which he chargeth , that we grant to be true , but deny them to be either damnable , or corrupt doctrin , but affirm them to be truly christian ; one is , that all men ought to attend to the light within them , to be the rule of their lives and actions . but if this be corrupt and damnable doctrin , he accuseth his own brethren , who in their confession of faith , say , that there are many sins that men commit against the law or light of nature , as they call it , which are the more hainous . and surely that is a light within them , and is e'en so far a rule of life , containing , as is commonly acknowledged the substance of the ten commandments ; see their answer to quest . 151. larger catechism . but we do not say , that that general illumination that is in all men , many of whom have not the scriptures , is a rule to oblige them to believe and receive these great mysteries of christianity , declared in the scriptures , which they who have not the scriptures , have not revealed unto them . the other is , that we deny the use of oaths : but this is no corrupt , but truly christian doctrin , which saith , swear not at all , mat. 5.34 . it is a marvelous thing , that these men have no other ways to oppugne the quakers , but by grose 〈…〉 lies , and false calumnies , and 〈◊〉 abuses , like unto the ways that ever the 〈◊〉 sort of the adversaries of truth have used against the true witnesses of it . it had been more manly , and seemingly christian , for increase mather and nath. morton , or any others of their sect or society , fairly to have stated the quakers principles , and then to have gone and refuted them by the best or strongest arguments they could find : but this none of them have done , nor did i ever see to this day any one writer , that did write against the quakers , that did fairly state their principles , but miserably belyed , and abused them , either by affirming things to be their principles , which were not , or by so unfairly representing and wresting the words of our honest friends , by their addings and diminishings , that they could not at all acknowledge them as such ; all which is a manifest evidence of the weakness & badness of their cause , as well as of that evil conscience that is in them , when they use such unlawful ways and means to defend themselves , or to oppugne others . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a47164-e22600 read and well consider ezekiel 9.3.4 . 1 cor. 5.2 . a defence of the answer and arguments of the synod met at boston in the year 1662 concerning the subject of baptism and consociation of churches against the reply made thereto, by the reverend mr. john davenport, pastor of the church at new-haven, in his treatise entituled another essay for investigation of the truth &c. : together with an answer to the apologetical preface set before that essay, by some of the elders who were members of the synod above-mentioned. mather, richard, 1596-1669. 1664 approx. 483 kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from 75 1-bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : 2003-07 (eebo-tcp phase 1). a50248 wing m1271 estc w19818 11164502 ocm 11164502 46467 this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons 0 1.0 universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase 1, no. a50248) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set 46467) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, 1641-1700 ; 1426:7) a defence of the answer and arguments of the synod met at boston in the year 1662 concerning the subject of baptism and consociation of churches against the reply made thereto, by the reverend mr. john davenport, pastor of the church at new-haven, in his treatise entituled another essay for investigation of the truth &c. : together with an answer to the apologetical preface set before that essay, by some of the elders who were members of the synod above-mentioned. mather, richard, 1596-1669. 46, 102 p. printed by s. green and m. johnson for hezekiah usher of boston, cambridge : 1664. imperfect: p. 1-4 lacking. "an answer" attributed to jonathan mitchel, a.m. of cambridge , and "a defence" to the reverend mather of dorchester by nuc pre-1956 imprints. reproduction of original in the harvard university library. created by converting tcp files to tei p5 using tcp2tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between 1473 and 1700 available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the 25,363 texts created during phase 1 of the project have been released into the public domain as of 1 january 2015. anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. 5% (or 5 pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of 100 instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level 4 of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p5, characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng congregational churches -controversial literature. congregational churches -massachusetts. baptism -history. 2003-02 tcp assigned for keying and markup 2003-03 spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images 2003-04 rina kor sampled and proofread 2003-04 rina kor text and markup reviewed and edited 2003-06 pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a defence of the answer and arguments of the synod met at boston in the year 1662. concerning the svbiect of baptism , and consociation of chvrches . against the reply made thereto , by the reverend mr. iohn davenport , pastor of the church at new-haven , in his treatise entituled , another essay for investigation of the truth , &c. together with an ansvver to the apologetical preface set before that essay ▪ by some of the elders who were members of the synod above-mentioned . 1 thess. 5.21 . prove all things ; held fast that which is good . 1 chron. 28.8 . keep and seek for all the commandments of the lord ye●● god , that ●● may possess this good land , and leave it for ●n inheritance for your children after you for ever . cambridge : printed by s. green and m. iohnson for hezekiah vsher of boston . 1664. never yet been admitted to the lords table . forms ●● ratio ecclesiast . minist . in peregrinor . ecclesiâ institutâ lendini , &c. pag. 117 — 123 , 135. with pag. 86 , 104 , 105 , 106. holy baynes accounts , that children are a part of the church , dioces . tryall , pag. 84. and the principles pointed to in his christian letters ; letter 15. pag. 125 , 126. and letter 24. pag. 199 , 202. edit . 1637. also in his exposition of the epistle to the ephesians , on chap. 1.1 . doct. 5. and on chap. 2.12 . pag. 276 , 277. and other places , may easily be improved unto a confirmation of the doctrine of the synod . dr. ames ( whom the preface calls for-ever famous , iudicious , &c. and that very deservedly ) how large his judgement is as to the subject of baptism , may be seen by any that have his cases of conscience , lib. 4. cap. 27. he requires no more unto the most proper right of a child to baptism , but that the parents o● one of them be intra ecclesiam , within the church ; though he thinks that others also may be baptized , if any godly persons will undertake for their education . and how plainly he holds forth the doctrine of the synod in his medulla , lib. 1. cap. 32. thes. 12 , 13. & cap. 40. thes. 11 , 12 , 13. is easie to be collected . we may well here take up the words of worthy mr. cotton , in his preface before mr. nertons answer to apollonius , where having named cartwright , partus , baynes , and ames , those chariots and horsemen of israel , and leaders in the cause of reformation , he addes , ab borum sive vestigiis , sive principiis si novitatis studio cessimus , jure meritò deseremur ut desertores . quod si in viâ illorum ambulamus nec ultrà pregredimur ( quod ad summam rei attine● ) quàm ab illorum lumine divinitùs collustrati , cert● non nos illi sumus , qui causam reformationis deseruimus , sed illi potiùs ( quos lubens nollem dicere ) qui nos ut desertores deserunt & de●estantur . so here : if we out of any changeable inclinations , or spirit of innovation , have departed from the footsteps or principles of those blessed patrons of reformation ( such as were now named , and others of the good old non-conformists , who both with prayers , tears and sufferings , and with as much judicious learning and piety as the world hath yet seen , have handed down to us the work and way of reformation ) then let us be , and well might we be deserted and censured as desertors or apostates ( as we are by too many ) but if we adhere to the principles , and tread in the steps of those worthies , and go no further then they , or then the light which god hath communicated by them doth lead us , surely we have not deserted nor departed from the cause of reformation ; but they rather ( though unwillingly we speak it ) who desert and dislike us as desertors . the elders and messengers of the congregational churches in england , in the preface to the result of their meeting at the savoy , do profess a full concurrence throughout in all the substantial parts of church-government with their reverend brethren the old puritan non-confermists , citing in the margin fox , dearing , greenbam , cartwright , fenner , fulk , whitaker , reynolds , perkins , &c. now let the judgement of these ( such of them as have left any thing written about this question , by which we may judge of the mindes of the rest ) be considered ; and see if they do not abundantly confirm such ● latitude of baptism as we plead for . what if our congregational brethren in england have not yet , by reason of the infancy of their churches , had so much occasion to look into this question ( as our selves for a long time had not ) nor yet so much need to trouble themselves about the full extent of baptism , in a place where there were enow that would baptize those whom themselves left unbaptized ? yet when the lord shall incline any of those able and worthy persons to set themselves to the study of this point : why should we think that they will not be willing to receive light from , or that they will be willing easily to go against the judgements of those old non-conformists , whom they professedly concurre-with in other parts of discipline ? so much for the discourse upon the first objection . in answer to to the second objection , the apologist gives this warning , let us not for fear of anabaptism , do worse , even defile our selves with antichristianism . and makes this profession , we are willing to profess that we look upon it as great a sin to baptize all children , as to baptize to children . ans. 1. we should not chuse to put anabaptism as contradistinct to antichristianism . take antichristianism for all that which is against christ his mind , rules and kingdome , so surely anabaptism is a part of it . take it for the corruptions of the papacy , how near a-kin the doctrines and principles of the papists and anabaptists are , is shewed in à late preface to mr. shepard's letter . the anabaptists are indeed ready enough to call every thing that they mislike , antichristian ; as if none were enemies to antichristianism so much as they . but if to oppose , obstruct , and undermine the kingdome of our lord jesus christ , be an antichristian thing , let scripture , reason , and experience speak , whether their tenents and wayes be not highly antichristian . does not their cutting off so great a part of the subjects of christs kingdome , as the children of the faithful are ( mat. 19.14 . ) their changing the frame of the covenant , whereby his vi●●ble kingdome in his church is constituted and continued , &c. give ( though secretly , and under plausible pretences ) a most deep and dangerous wound to the interest and progress of christs kingdome ? and hath not experience shewed anabaptism ( with its wonted concomitant errours ) to be the vexation and clog of reformation ever since the beginning of it . 2. to speak here of baptizing the children of infidells and pagans , as if any did incline to that , would be a strange absurdity : but if by [ all children ] be meant the children of all that are named christians , though we think it too great a l●xness to baptize all such , yet we are past doubt , that so to do is farre neerer the rule and mind of christ , when he sayes [ dis●ple 〈◊〉 nations , baptizing them ] then to baptize no children . let us be farre from making bucan , zanchy , calvin , perkins , and many other eminent and worthy divines , who are for such a latitude of baptizing , to be equally erroneous with the anabaptists . let no one make it a temptation to himself or others , to run to antip●●d●baptism , because he hears the assertors of infant-baptism plead for a greater latitude of baptism then he thinks is ( or perhaps then indeed is ) meet . errour in particular applications of the rule , is farre less then errour in a principle . anabaptism erres in a principle , and principal rule of church-constitution . and he that narrowly observes the frame of christs rules and dispensations about this matter , will find much of that maxime in them , faveres sunt ampliandi . we see the lord takes in the children as holy , if but one of the parents be a believer ; he appoints us to recei●e the weak , as well as the strong . we find not that the apostles refused any that were willing to come in , and to be subjects of christs visible kingdome : neither are persons or people utterly broken off from a portion in the visible church , till after all means and long patience used , &c. as if christ studyed the inlargement of his visible kingdome among men ( i. e. as much as may be with the honour or his holiness and government ) rather then the straitning thereof . many pious-minded persons among us are very fearful of inlarging , and of corruption that way : but why should we not also be afraid of grieving the heart of christ ( mark 10.14 ) by too much straitning , and by keeping or putting out those whom christ takes in ? for we may not take away or diminish from the word of god , no more then we may adde thereto , deut. 12.32 . the lord keep us from extreams on either hand , and guide us in the right middle way that is according to his will. but the preface goes on ; neither can we plead guilty unto that charge , that we deny all church-membership unto any in●ants ; we onely deny that they are personal and immediate members . indeed as personal membership is taken subjectiv●ly , so we say it is in infants , i. e. their persons are recipients of the ad●unct of church membership : but as personal membership is taken formally , i. e. for such as have by them , ●●tes in their own persons entred into covenant with god and his people , so infants are not capable of personal church-membership . ans. it is pity to clog and cloud the plain things of car●●● with intricate distinctions , which do rather bemist and puzzle the readers understanding , then enlighten it . one would think it should suffice men to know that their children are ( by the lordsrich grace and appointment ) in their own persons within the covenant , and so members of the church , without disputing whether they be so subjectively or f●rmally , &c. and should such distinctions pass for currant , what other use they would be of , we know not ; but sure we are , they would do great service to the anabaptists , though we believe that is not the intendment of our brethren , to comply with , or build up anabaptism . but we are not now speaking to intentions or persons , but to arguments and distinctions in themselves ; considered . for , suppose one give this argument for infant-baptism ( and indeed we know not a better ) members of the visible church are to be baptized : infants of confederate parents are members of the visible church : ergo. how readily may it be answered , that personal and immediate members ( or they that have personal membership formally ) are to be baptized ; but not mediate and not-personal members , or they that have it ( not formally , but ) subjectively onely . we have known an antipoedebaptist flie to this as his sheat-anchor [ infants are members ; ●ut how ? why , not personal members , but members in their parents ; and so let them be baptized ( mediately ) in their parents , and not in their own persons . ] and indeed , why should the seal of membership be immediately and formally applied to their own persons , if they be not in their own persons immediate and formal ( or formally ) members ? but let us search a little into this distinction between personal membership as taken subjectively , and the same as taken formally , and see what there is in it , with reference to the matter in hand . for , that children are personal and immediate members , is asserted and proved by the synod , but denied by our brethren : and this distinction is here brought to bear up that deniall , or to tell us in what sense they deny personal membership to infants . it was sometimes roundly denied , that infants are personal members ; now it is denied with a distinction : they are personal members ( say they ) subjectively , but not formally . answ. 1. if infants be members , they are formally so : for , forma est per quam res est id quod est . if we say , such an one is a man , a father , a master , &c. we must mean that he is formally a man , or hath the form of a man , &c. he is not a member , that hath not the form of a member . to say he is a member , and to deny him the form of a member , is to say and unsay . 2. it is here said , that , as personal membership is taken subjectively , so it is in infants , i. e. their persons are recipients of the adjunct of church-membership . we demand , whether this does not fully yield the cause , and give us as much as we need to the matter in hand ? for , if the person of the infant be recipient of the adjunct of church-membership , then of formal church-membership ( it is not church-membership , if it want the form ) then formal ( or proper ) church-membership , doth cleave to the person of the infant ; then the person of this infant is formally a church-member , or , he is a personal formal member . he needs no more to render him a personal formal member ( or formally a personal member ) then to have the adjunct of church-membership upon him , or cleaving to his person . for membership ( as all such 〈◊〉 relations , fatherhood , sonship , &c. ) is but an adjunct ; it enters not into the essence of any man , but cleaves to him as an adjunct . and so no man is more then subjectively a member ( the most formally personal member that is , is but subjectively a member in this sense ) i. e. he is a subject recipient of membership , or one that hath the adjunct of membership cleaving to him . if therefore the person of the infant be recipient of the adjunct of church-membership , then he is a personal formal member , or formally a personal member , for his person hath the form of membership upon it , or cleaving to it . 3. when it 's said , [ but as personal membership is taken form●lly , i. e. for such as have by themselves in their own persons entred into covenant with god and his people , so infants are not capable of personal membership ] what logick is this , to put the efficient for the form , or to make it a part thereof ? it is wont to be said , efficiens non ingreditur essentiam . the act of covenanting on our part , whereby we are brought into the church , is but an efficient ( yea , but an instrumental efficient : the book calls it a precrean : cause , pag. 37. that is still but an efficient : yet consider it in contradistinction to divine institution , it can but instrumentally procreate ) but the form , or formalis ratio of membership , is to be within the covenant , or within the church , 1 cor. 5.12 . whatever causality our act in pro●essing and covenanting do contribute to bring us in , it can be but an efficient . and hence it doth not denominate or constitute the formality of our membership . object . but [ formally ] here is referred to personal , not to membership . ans. if so it be , yet still the same answers hold , unless it mean no more then every one grants , and so be nothing to the purpose . if the meaning onely be that infants do not enter into covenant by an act of their own proper persons ; who ever said or thought they did ? what need we labour in finding out distinctions to deny them that which no body ever challenged for them ? or to what purpose is that ? but the question is , whether infants be not personal members ( or personally and formally members ) although they never yet put forth an act of covenanting in their own persons ? we affirm it , because they have the forme of membership ( or the adjunct of formal membership ) cleaving to their own persons by divine institution . and so we say they are personally , and formally members , though they have not yet acted any thing in their own proper persons . you seem to deny it , and bring a distinction to clear your meaning : the former branch of which distinction , as your selves explain it , grants the thing that we plead for ; the latter branch , as you also explain it , denies no more then we deny , viz. that they enter by their own proper personal act. but the mistake lies in making this [ viz. entring by ones own proper act ] to be formally personal membership : whereas that is formally personal membership , that doth formally and properly constitute the person a member ; and so , [ being within the covenant ] doth the infants in question , though they never yet acted in their own persons . the distinction should rather stand thus ; as personal membership is taken properly and formally , so it agrees to infants ; i. e. their persons are recipients of the adjunct of proper formal church-membership , but as personal membership is taken improperly ( and very improperly indeed ) i. e. for the membership of such as have by themselves or by their own personal profession entred into covenant , so infants are not capable of personal membership . thus it might be granted . but why should we use personal membership in so improper a sence , or insist on a sence that toucheth not the cause in question ? the sum is , that if by [ personal membership taken formally ] be meant onely , entring by their own proper personal act , then the distinction is needless and not ad rem . but if it be meant so as to deny what we affirm , then it is overthrown by your selves in the former branch . grant them to be personal members subjectively , you therein grant them to be so formally : deny them personal membership formally , you deny it subjectively . these do mutuò so ponere & tollere , being used in any sence that is proper and pertinent to the present dispute . but consider whether it would sound rationally to say , that paul was not formally a personal roman ( or not formally a roman free-man in his own person ) because he did not buy his freedome with his own money ; or that a childe who hath an inheritance left him , is not formally a personal owner thereof , because himself did not purchase it : or , that infants are personal subjects in such a kingdome , members of such a family , subjectively onely , not formally , because they did not become such by their own previous personal act . these and such like shew how improper and incongruous it is , to make ones own personal act to be that which constitutes the formality of personal membership . preface . it 's strange to us to conceive , that they should have this personal formal membership , and yet that they should not be subjects capable of formal personal censures . ans. they are capable in regard of their relation and state in the church , though not in regard of natural capacity , nor in regard of demerit ; for an infant cannot ecclesiastically deserve publick censure . it is not strange to conceive infants to be subjects of such a prince , though at present uncapable of civil tryals and punishments . it suffices that infant-members are in a state of subjection to church discipline , and ingaged thereto for afterward , though at present naturally uncapable of the exercise thereof . the new born infant is not capable of domestical discipline ( either rod or rebuke ) but that hinders not his being a formal personal member of the family . preface . we neither do , nor ever did deny , that , the persons of infants of believing confederate parents , are brought under the covenant , onely we conceive that their membership is conjunct with , and dependent upon the membership and covenant of their parents , so as to live and dye therewith — hence when the parents are excommunicated , the membership of the infant-childe is cut off ▪ because excommunication puts an end to the outward covenant ( which death it self doth not do ) and if the root be destroyed , the branches cannot live . ans. that the childes membership depends upon the membership of the parent , as the instrumental cause or condition of the childes first entrance into the church , or becoming a member , we readily grant ( because divine institution admitteth onely the children of members to be members ) and so much mr. cottons words here all●dged in the preface do truly teach . but that the childes membership is so wrapt up in the membership of the parent , as to live and dye therewith , as if it had no proper and distinct membership of its own , is surely a deep mistake , and will ( if followed ) overthrow that subjective personal membership before granted unto infants , and that which is here also owned , viz. that their persons are brought under the covenant : if the persons of the infants be brought under the covenant , then their persons are within the covenant , or their persons are confederate , then not onely the person of the parent , but the person of the childe hath the formality of membership upon it . and as the person of the childe in regard of its natural being , though for the first existence thereof it depended under god upon the parent , yet when once it is born into the world , it is not so conjunct with , and dependent upon the person of the parent , as to live and dye therewith ; so why should the membership of the childe be thus dependent ? seeing the book ( to which this preface is prefixed ) affirmeth , p 37. that the parent is a procreant cause , as of the childe● natural being by his generating him , so also of his church-membership by his confederating for him , and this by gods institution . and seeing the person of the childe hath a membership of its own affixed to it ( as the foresaid grants import ) and that from god ( from gods covenant and institution ) as well as the person of the parent ; why should we say , that the membership of the childe doth after this , depend upon the membership or covenant of the parent , and not rather upon gods covenant and institution , so as to live and dye according to the order and appointment thereof , and not otherwise ? hence the membership wherewith the person of the childe is clothed by gods institution , dyes not till either the person of the childe dye , or till by some institution and appointment of god he be cut off from his membership for his own sin . neither must it be yelded , that the excommunication of the parent , doth properly and formally cut off the infant-childe that was born before such excommunication . we say , properly and formally , for consequentially and eventually it may bring the childe to be cut off also ; as in case the parent desperately go away from the church among hereticks and infidels , and bring up the childe to serve other gods : but so it may be with a wife carried away by such an husband , yet that does not hinder her from having a personal , distinct , proper and immediate membership , nor make his cutting off to be hers also . but suppose a parent and children that live and continue among us ; the parent having a company of children , all in their minority , is for his wickedness cast out , and continuing impenitent , dyes in that estate : to say that all these children ( who were born and baptized in the church ) are cut off from membership hereby , is a strange assertion . for 1. this would make an infant-childe to be a subject of excommunication , which was before ( and in regard of natural capacity and demerit , rightly ) denied . 2. if a parent in israel was for his sin cut off from his people , were the children that he left behind him therefore excluded from the commonwealth of israel ? to be sure , in crimes , capitally punished ( of which cutting off from their people is sometimes plainly meant , exod. 31.14 , 15. levit. 17.4 . & 18.29 . & 20.18 . ) the childe was not to dye for the fathers sin , deut. 24.16 . 2 chron. 25.4 . ier. 31.30 . ezek. 18.20 . and is there not the like reason of other punishments , whether ecclesiastical or civil ? yea , that cutting off from their people appointed in the law , is conceived by judicious interpreters to be in some places most properly meant of an ecclesiastical death , or cutting off from the people and church of god by excommunication ; but however , it held a proportion with excommunication now under the gospel . the childe may be barred from a right or privilegde that he ne●er had , by the sin or condition of the parent : so h●athen children are unclean and without , because their parents are so . ( hence children born after the parents excommunication are not of the church : ) but to be deprived of a right or priviledge which ●e once ●ad , and was possessed of ( which is the case of children formerly born in the church , and owned as members by the seal of baptism ) this hath in it the nature of a proper formal punishment or censure , and this is inflicted upon none but for his own sin . a parent civilly or naturally dead , cannot after that bring forth children to the commonwealth ; nor can a parent ecclesiastically dead ( he so continuing ) bring forth children to the church . but the children that are already members of the one society or of the other , are not to be cut off therefrom for their parents sin . 3. that , if the root be destroyed , the branches cannot live , is a truth in nature of branches growing on the same tree : but if these branches be taken and set upon a st●ck and root of their own , ( though but as in a nursery ) then they do not die when the old tree dies , or is cut up by the roots . and so is the case in hand . these children are inserted and implanted into the church , the body of christ , in their own persons ( as was but now granted , when it was said , the persons of these infants do . receive the adjunct of of church-membership , and that their persons are ●rought under the covenant ) and have so farre taken root therein , as to receive ( not from their parents , but from the church , and from the soil and fa●ness thereof ) the sap and nourishment of baptism , which is also a seal of the establishment or rooting of their membership . branches included and contained in the root ( as children yet unborn , or not born till after excommunication ) are broken off ( or rather left without ) together with their parents : but not such branches as are already severed from the root , and planted in the house of god , in the vineyard of the lord of hosts , as through the grace of the covenant our children are , isa. 5.7 . 4. that death does not put an end to the outward covenant , which excommunication does , is a notion that we understand not : we should have thought that outward membership ( or membership in the visible instituted church ) as well as the use of all outward ordinances , or instituted wor●hip , had everlastingly ceased at death . the ends , duties and enjoyments of outward membership , do then cease , and so the membership it self . the lord knows how many may from outward membership in the visible church , drop to hell ; and does not their death put an end to their membership ? and if death put an end to outward membership , it puts an end to outward covenant in the sense of the question , i. e. as to the person that dies . indeed it does not hinder the continuance of the covenant to others that are in covenant , and are surviving : and neither does excommunication so do . but the person of the parent loses his membership in the visible church when he dies , as well as when he is excommunicated . and hence if the membership of the childe did live and die with the membership of the parent , there would be a cessation of it in the one case , as well as in the other . a parents faith , prayers , and covenant may live , though hi● self be dead : but how ? i. e. virtually , in the virtue and effect of them : and how is that ? why , the promise made by god to the faith , prayers , and profession ( or covenanting ) of a godly parent , that lives , and abides , and takes effect . so then it is neither the parent , nor his membership , but gods covenant that lives , taking in the children that are begotten or born of confederate parents , to be members of his visible church , and so continuing them , till by some rule or appointment of his they be cut off . in like manner , though the parent by his sin and wickedness have deprived himself of a portion in israel , and be cut off by the censure of excommunication ; yet the covenant of god lives , and stands to the children whom he had before taken into covenant , and planted in his house . to call it the covenant of their parents , and to say that childrens membership is dependent upon that , is too crude a p●r●se , and too much abused by many , ascribing that to the parents , and to their profession ( or act in covenanting ) which belongs most properly to god , and his grace . 't is gods covenant that takes in both parents and children . alas , what are parents ! and what could all their profession , and faith , and actings do , if god did not vouchsafe to take them into covenant ? now god taketh the childe into his covenant , as well as the parent : and 't is gods covenant and institution that the membership of the chide depends upon , and with which alone it l●ves and dies . but it follows in the preface : true it is , that we have made much use of that distinction of immediate and mediate members ▪ which seems to us to carry a mighty and constraining evidence of scripture-light along with it , &c. ans. we must needs say this seems strange to us , when as there is not so much as one scripture brought ( either here , or in the book following ) to make good or hold forth such a distinction . in stead of scriptures , here are some authors streight named , not to attest the distinction of immediate and mediate . ( it see●s that cannot be found , no not so much as in authors ) but of compleat and incompleat . to which the answer is ready : 1. if some authors have so distinguished members , yet where is such a distinction of membership ? at least purposely so intended , as to mak● several sorts or kindes of membership specifically differing , as is expresly said of the distinction here pleaded for in the book , pag 37. dr ▪ ames , in the place here cited ▪ does not say of infants . non sunt 〈◊〉 membra , but perfecta membra : neither does he say , non sunt perfecta , but non sunt adeo perfecta membra : they are not so perfect members ( saith he ) of the church , as that they can exercise acts of communion , or be admitted to partake of all the priviledges thereof : plainly referring the imperfection or incompleatness , not to the essence of their membership , but to the degree of their communion and priviledges . hence , 2. their distinction of members into compleat and incompleat , is ( being candidly taken ) as much as our distinction of members into such as are in ●ull ( or compleat ) communion , and such as are not yet in full communion ; which distinction we have ( and we hope justly ) made great use of . and for such a distinction re●●ipsa loquitur . all that are within ( of , or belonging to ) such a society , whether family , commonwealth , or church , are truely and properly said to be members of that society ; but all are not equal in participation of priviledges therein : some have a more full ( or compleat ) 〈◊〉 and portion therein , and some have less . all christs scholars ( or disciples ) are not of the highest form ; nor are all his subjects betrusted with the keyes of his kingdome ; nor all his children past their non-age , &c. but yet they are all disciples in his school , subjects of his kingdome , children of his family , i. e. members o● the visible church . but such a distinction as maketh several sorts of membership specifically different , we have not yet seen cleared and confirmed , either from scripture , or authors , or from sound reason . sundry distinctions or sorts of members , might easily be given ; as , some members are in office in the church , some out of office ; some partake of the lords supper , but not of the power of voting , ( as women ) some of both ; some have onely initial priviledges , some all. ( ames medul . lib 1. cap 32. thes. ● 3. ) but these are but distributions ex adjunctis , and do not touch or vary the essence of membership , nor make several sorts thereof . nor do these distinctions and degrees of members in the church , arise simply from the nature of membership , or from any difference therein , but from something superadded unto membership : as an officer is not more a member then another ; but his dignity and place in the church ariseth from somewhat superadded unto membership , viz. his office. a man is not more a member then a woman , though he hath a power and priviledge in the church ( besides and above bare membership ) which the woman hath not . so men and women that partake of the lords table , are not more ( or more truely , properly , immediately and personally ) members of the church , then children are ; but they having attained to more and further qualifications , ( or to a greater degree of growth in the church ) are by rule admitted to mor priviledges then they thus in a kingdome or commonwealth , there are many sorts of subjects : some bear office , some not ; some admitted to election of officers , some not ; some capable of pleading and answering for themselves in law , some are not : but yet they all agree in the relation of a subject . and who ever made a specifical distinction of that , so as to say ( in that sense ) some are mediate subjects , and some immediate ? the same may be said of a family , where the youngest childe is as truely , properly , personally and immediately a member of the family , as the most grown person , though as to power and priviledges therein there be a vast difference . so in the natural body : all the parts are not an eye , an hand , &c. but all are members ; and the meanest part is as well a member , as the most noble , 1 cer. 12. 12 — 25. now there is the like reason , as to the general nature of membership , in ● church-society , which is set forth by that of a kingdome . fa●●ly , and of the natural body , in the holy scriptures . and so much for the discourse upon the second objection . in the third place , our brethren set down this position or opinion , as that which is objected against them , that a person who is a church-member may become no member by an act or defect of his own , without any church-act in censuring of him : and to 〈◊〉 is they say , most true it is th●t we do maintain this . and for proo● ther●●f ▪ they suppo●e 〈…〉 of an english fugitive , of one turned turk , who was never censured by any church . ans. the position objected against them , if it be pertinent to the matter in hand , must run thus ; that a person who is a church-member may become no member by an a●● or defect of his own , without any church-act in censuri●g of hi● and without 〈…〉 censure on his part ; or though he do not so much as deserve any church-censure , and be not censurable by any rule of gods word . for so the words ●f the synod ● in defence of the controverted fifth proposition ) do expresly speak , putting that as an 〈◊〉 that a person admitted member , and sealed by baptism , not cast out , nor deserving so to be , may ( the church whereof he was , still remaining ) become a non-member , and out of the church , and of the unclean world , pag. 26. now put but this into the objection here mentioned [ without desert of church-censure ] which is manifestly the case of the persons described in the synods fifth proposition ; and then all the discourse in answer to this objection ( wherein not a little confidence and spirit is expressed ) falls to the ground as not reaching the case in hand ; though besides there are sundry mistakes in it as may after appear . for , suppose it should be granted , that in churches where discipline is not in use , and in a case notorious , wherein a person does apparently lose the essentials of christianity ( as by turning turk or the like ) a man may be cut off from membership by his own apostacie and wickedness , though the church did not ( through her sinful neglect ) formally censure him . yet this on the other hand is also a sure and clear truth , that no act of a mans own , will or can cut him off from membership , but that which deserves a cutting off by censure , and for which the church should cut him off by censure if she did her duty . this is plain , because when a man is once in the church , he cannot be outed , till god out him : god does not out him , till some rule or appointment of his in his word does out him : but there is no rule that appoints any man to be put out of the visible church , or made as an heathen and publican , but for and upon such wickedness of his as is censurable by the church ; and in that case the rule does appoint and injoyn the church to censure him , or to put him away from among them by censure , mat. 18.17 . 1 cor. 5.5 , 13. when some divines do so speak as if persons might be broken off from the church without a formal censure in some extraordinary cases ; the meaning is , not that a man doth by his own wickedness , be it never so notorious , immediately so become felo de se , or vn-member himself , as that the church hath nothing to do with him to censure him ; yes , she may and ought to censure him for his wickedness and apostacy ; and so if a church-member turn turk or papist , the church to which he belongs ought to lay him under censure for it . and for such a one to be a member till censured , i. e. a rotten member fit to be cut off , is no contradiction nor absurdity . see mr. cottons holiness of church-members , pag. 15. (e) and did all churches in the world do their duty , there should no man living , that ever was a member of a church yet in being , be looked upon as a non-member , but he that is so censured on excommunicated , at least unless some extraordinary and rare circumstances of a case do render the churches cognizance thereof impossible . but the meaning onely is , that where men have palpably and notoriously lost the essentials of christianity , and a church , through the sinful want or neglect of discipline , never looks after them ( onely by her doctrine declares against such ) but haply continues in that neglect from age to age , there the notoriousness of the case , and the evidence of the rule , does supply the defect of a judicial sentence , and the churches doctrinal declaration may be looked at as an implicite excommunication . and hence other churches may justly carry toward such as non-members : and hence also in the day of the reformation of such churches , after deep and long-continued corruptions , such persons may be set by without a formal censure . but what is all this to the children of our churches ? who being admitted in minority , in stead of notorious wickedness and apostacy , when grown up , do in some measure own the god and covenant of their fathers , and are neither cast out , nor deserve so to be ; whom no rule in all the scripture appointeth to be put out of the visible church : and hence t●ey stand and continue regular ( i. e. according to the appointment and allowance of the rule ) members of it , being neither excommunicate , nor by rule to be excommunicated . where shall we finde either scripture or sound reason to tell us , that these have cut themselves off from membership , or are n●w become non-members ? but to come to a plain and distinct close in this matter , we assert this position : that in churches wa●●ing in the order of the gospel , and exercising discipline according to the rules thereo● , no person can ( while he lives among them ) ▪ cease to be a member of the visible church but by excommunication , or , without a church-act in censuring him with the censure of excommunication . the sum of the proof of this , is , because we finde this way of cessation of membership ( viz. by excommunication ) plainly prescribed and appointed by the lord in scripture : and we finde not any other , while the church and the person continues in being [ see a more particular proof of it in the preface to mr. shepard's treatise of chur●h-membership of children , lately published ] but if any do affirm there is another way , it lies on them to shew and prove it . let us now consider whether that be done by all that is here further said . preface . when whitgift said , that papists and atheists might still remain members of the visible church , mr. parker tells him , that even a veritius would condemn him . and it is no new doctrine in the s●hools , to say , that , an heretical apostate is no more a member of the church of christ , then a wound , a s●re , a brand , is a member of a man ; as e●ery one knows that is mediocritèr doctus in scholasii●al divinity . therefore we conclude , that church-members may become no members by their own defection . ans. surely he that is but medi●critèr doctus in sch●lastical or ●●emical divinity , may easily know that here is the shew of an argument , or of authority of writers , wit● out the substan●e of either . for , when our divines against the papists do so often over say , that wicked or vnregenerate persons are but equivocally or improperly members of the church , as nails , ha●r , sores , and superflu●us hu ●urs , or as a wooden leg. a glass eye , &c. are members of the liuing body of a man ; they mean it properly , with reference to the invisible mystical church , or to the visible church considered in its internal spiritual living state (a) , not with reference to mens external standing ( or membership ) in the visible church : nor did they ever dream that men are by the want of internal gracious qualifications cut off from membership in the visible church , without any church-censure . it is well known , that they reckon hypocrites and secretly unregenerate persons ( as well as ●eretical apostates , or the openly-wicked ) to be but equivocaliy of the church ( viz. in ●omparison and contradistinction to the true and living members of the body of christ ; ●nd as ●aul di●tinguishes between israel , and them that are of israel , rom. 9.6 . and sayes , he is not a iew , i. e. not a jew indeed , and accepted in the sight of god , who is ●ut outwar●ly ●n● , rom. 2.28 , 29. ) but would you therefore say , that a close hypocrite un●e●bers hims●l● , and f●lls out of the visible church without any church-censure ? in the place here cited out of parker de pelit . eccles. lib. 3. cap. 16. pag. 169. verstius condemns bellarmine , because he affirmed such — ( ad ecclesias christi propri● dic●am reuerà pertinerè ) to be indeed of the true church . how strangely is this misapplied to the matter in hand (b) ? as if one should say , that all that want true sauing . faith have lo●t their church-membership without any censure , and then alledge for the proof of it the protestants doctrine , that the true mystical or catholick church consists onely of elect believers : how evident is it that this is not at rem ? for , as for an external membership in the church ( which is the matter that we have in hand ) what is more known , then that all our divines do unanimously acknowledge it to be the portion of multitudes that have not s●ving gra●e ? and that even such as have been born and brought up in the church , if they fall into manifest incorrigible wickedness , they should be removed out of the church by excommunication ; but otherwise they are still within ; although many of them be destitute of those inward qualifications that should render them living and true members of the church mystical . falsum est ( saith dr. ames , bel. enerv. tom 2. lib 2. cap. 1. ) internas vir●utes requir● ( i. e. absolute requiri ) à nobis ut aliquis sit in ecclesiâ quoad visiblem ejus statum . and see ames med. l●b . 1. cap. 32. thes. 11. they that are christians by proffession onely ( saith iunius ) are truely of the church , according to the external consideration thereof , though not according to the internal , wherein ●es the truth of christianity . animad . in bellar. de eccles. cap. 10. art. 28. and in cap. 9. art 1. he saith , we acknowledge there be griev●● sinners in this ( viz the visible ) church , in which if they were not ▪ we should in vain trouble our selues about their correcti●n and excommunication ; vid. calvin . institut . lib. 4. cap. 1. sect. 7 , 9 , 13. polan . 〈◊〉 . lib. 7. cap. 8. but it were a needless labour to cite many testimonies in so manifest a case . when whitgift had said , that the church is full of wicked persons drunkards , idolaters , papists , atheists &c cartwr●ght answers him ( as pa●ker in the very place here quoted notes ) that , that was because the discipline of christ was not 〈…〉 ; ●●ewing that he would have even such not to be left to their own self-felony ( if , being church-members they fall to such evils ) but to be cut off by christs appointed discipline . and cartwright in his second reply , part. 1. p. 246. upon that in 1 cor. 5.11 . among other passages hath these words , it is one case of him that hath given his name to the gospel , & afterward slideth from that profession to idolatry ; and another of him that never gave it , but hath been from his infancy an idolater ; for the first cannot be severed from the church without solemn sentence of excommunication , see also pag. 242 , 247 , 248. but the preface addes : and we humbly conceiue that thus much is held forth by these scriptures , heb. 10.25 . 1 joh. 2.19 . jud. 19. ans. that the sin of those who forsake church-assemblies , separate themselves from them , wander into wayes of heresie and apostacy , is grievous ( and consequently calleth for church-admonition , and incorrigibleness therein for excommunication ) this may be gathered from those scriptures ; but to gather thence , that such forsakers , separatisie and wanderers , do thereby become non-members , so as that the church should not , need not , or may not follow them with any censure , is a strange collection ; and would ( if granted ) at once overthrow all discipline . for what is more easie then for an offender to forsake the assembly , to separate himself , & c ? and then the church shall have no more to do with him ; so the process of discipline appointed in mat. 18. should never take place . what though there be no mention of church-censure in the texts alledged ? must we binde the holy-ghost to mention all truths and rules together in one text or context ? what the sin of such persons is , those texts shew ; but what discipline is to be used to church-sinners , this is held forth in other scriptures . if the apostle in 1 iob. 2.19 . have reference to ebion and cerinthus , and such like hereticks ( as is commonly conceived : vid. magdeburg . centur. 1. lib. 2. p. 485 ) surely he was not without care to have due testimony by church-censure born against them , yea when as he does so strictly injoyn all christians absolutely to avoid them , 2 iohn ver . 7 — 10. doth not that import an injunction to the churches unto which they did belong , to excommunicate them , if they had not already done it ? as when paul forbids them to eat with such an one , 1 cor. 5.11 . he means it , as a consequent upon ( and so implying an injunction of ) church-censure . vid. dickson in a thes 3.14 . & in rom. 16.17 . & in 2 tim. 3 5. preface . againe , how came esau to lose his membership ? we read not that he was excommunicate , therefore it remains that he discovenanted , and so dis-membered himself . and how came the children of abraham by keturah to lose their membership ? it was not by censure . ans. 1. should we thus reason , you would call for gospel-rules and proofs ; which we may with more reason do in this case , because proper excommunication is plainly and expresly ordained under the gospel : concerning the use of which , there is not so much clearness in the old testament . 2. the particular extraordinary revelation of gods minde concerning esau , together with his being denied the patriarchal blessing , of which the apostle saith [ he was rejected ] heb. 12.17 . may well be looked at as equivalent to an ordinary excommunication under the gospel . 3. the posterity of abraham by keturah , did in process of time lose their membership , by losing the essentials of true religion ; and to expect personal excommunication , when a whole people falls away to idolatry , and so becomes lo-am●● , is a vain thing . but it is a great mistake to think that the particular persons mentioned in genes . 25.2 , 3 , 4. yea or their next generations did cease to be members of the visible church . they were providentially removed out of the land of canaan , which was reserved for israel , and were permitted by degrees to lose religion , which was by promise to be continued and established in the line of isaac and iacob , so as that in the time of moses ( the nations being by that time generally fallen to idolatry ) religion and worship was so fixed in the nation and church of israel , as that all that would serve god aright must become proselytes to it , which before that time was not necessary . but religion and salvation , and consequently church-membership , according to the domestick way of administration then used , did for a considerable time continue among the children of abraham by keturah , as the story of iob intimates ; he and his friends being justly conceived to have been partly of that stock . and concerning iethro , who was of midian , and so of keturah , see rivet on exod. 2. and on exod. 18.12 . preface . in like sort when persons under the gospel do not come up to the terms of the covenant , to shew themselves to be abrahams children , by holding forth his faith , and walking before the lord in simplicity and goaly sincerity , we suppose that they are justly deemed breakers of the covenant , and have justly put themselves out of that covenant which their parents made for them . ans. 1. the persons in question ( i. e. the persons described in the synods fifth proposition ) do in some degree hold forth their faith and godly walking , while they are professed christians , or professed believers and followers of the truth and wayes of god , wherein they have been educated from their inf●ncy ; do constantly attend the ordinances and worship of god ; live under , and do not cast off the government of christ in his cour●● , and when called thereto do readily profess their assent to the doctrine of fai●● , and consent to the covenant : do these ( putting all this together ) in no sort shew themselves to be abrahams children , by holding forth the faith of abraham and walking in his steps , i. e. in charitable and ecclesiastical reputation ? surely mr. cotton accounts such as these ( yea all the children of the faithful that do not grow up to apostacy and open scandal , or that are not excommunicable ) to continue in a visible profession of the covenant , faith and religion of their fathers ; as in those passages of his that are pointed to in the preface the l●●e synod may be seen . and where shall we finde ground in all the scripture to exclude such as these from being within the compass of the visible church , or the covenants thereof ? 2. if the meaning be , that they do not yet hold forth such an experimental work of faith , or lively discerning and exercise thereof , and so much of the power of godliness in their life , as may fit them for a comfortable approach to the lords supper : let it be shewed from the scripture , that the bare defect or want hereof is such a violation of the terms of the covenant , as puts men out of it . we know that every transgression , or falling stort of duty required in the covenant , is not accounted in scripture an absolute breach of the covenant ( or a forsaking and rejecting thereof ) such as for which god gives unto persons or people a bill of divorce . do but compare these persons in question , whom the hasty and rigid severity of man here pronounces to be justly deemed breakers of the covenant , and to have put themselves out of it , with those whom the holy , but merciful and gracious god does in scripture call and account such breakers of the covenant : see ier. 11.9 , 10. ezek. 16.8 — 59. deut. 29.25 , 26.2 chron 7.22 . 2 king. 17.15 — 20. and he that would not cut down ( no not the barren ) fig ●ree , till further patience and means were used : he that wai●ed on the iews ( whose entrance into the church was by a membership received in infancy ) in the ministry of christ and the apostles , with as clear light of the gospel as ever shone , till utter incorrigible rejection thereof appeared , before he accounted them broken off , rom. 11.16 — 20. with act 13.45 , 46. & 18.5 , 6. & 19.8 , 9. 1 thes. 2.15 , 16. he that followed ierusalem with means and dispensations of grace , till they s●oned him away , mat. 23.27 , &c. can we imagine that he will reckon our poor children to be broken off as soon as they are adult , if then presently they do not bold forth fitness ●●r the lords table ? yea , when many of them are it may be secretly following after god , though haply they have not yet attained so much as to make their approach to that ordinance comfortable ; or have not yet the confidence to put forth themselves thereunto ? surely the lord does not make so light a matter of his holy covenant and se●l ( whatever men through mis-guided apprehensions may do ) as to enter into a solemn covenant with children , take them into his church , and seal up their taking in before men and angels , and then let them goe out so easily , or drop off one knows not how . 3. if they have justly , i. e. meritoriously put themselves out of the covenant , or so violated the covenant on their part , as to deserve a putting out , yet still one might ask , how they come to be actually put out , seeing the church hath not proceeded , nor seen cause to proceed to any censure ? but if it be indeed so , that they do deserue ( i. e. in fo●o ecclesia ; we speak not of desert in the sight of god ) to be put out ; if they may be justly ●●e●ed breakers of the covenant , and are guilty of that which justly puts them out , then it is the churches duty actually to put them out , or cut them off : for ecclesiastical justice , as well as civil , re●dreth unto all their due and just deserts : and those that are ( ecclesiastically ) breakers of the covenant ought to be cut off , gen. 17.14 . hence it will follow upon these principles , that we ought to cast out and cut off all the adult children of our churches that are not come up to full communion ; which thing , how horrid it is to think of , let the reader judge : or be it that we forbear any formal censure , and content our selves onely doctrinaly to declare , that all such children are put out and broken off , ( which doctrin● , declaration is indeed contained in the assertions of our brethren ) yet the harshness and horrid severity of such a declaration , is li●●le inferiour to the other , and very contrary to the patience and grace of jesus christ expre●●d in the scriptures . preface . wherefore that all may know , that there is neither danger nor singularity in this our assertion , that a church member may possibly become no member , wi●hout any act of the church in formal censuring of him , give us lea●e to pro●uce some testimonies to prove it . iudicious and blessed dr. ames ●a●th , that in case of pertina●ious separati●n su●h persons , though they may be of the invisible , yet they are not to be accounted members of the v●si●le church . ans. 1. suppose you should prove that a church-member may [ possibly ] become no member without a censure ; yet we are still utterly to seek of proof that ●●e children in question do so . 2. how can a separation be properly pertinacious and incurable , or appear so to be , till the means of church discipline have been used ? 3. ames his meaning may be , that such are not to be accounted lawful and approved members , as in the close of that chapter ( de consc. lib. 5. cap. 12. ) he saith , ● sch●smatical church is not to be accounted for a lawful and approved church . 4. we shall not deny but that some good divines do seem to hold , that in some cases of notorious wickedness , and apostacy , and so in case of absolute and universal schism ( of which ames there spe●ks ) especially in places and churches where discipline is not used ; men may be looked at as non-members , though the church did neglect to pass a formal censure : wherein we shall not trouble our selves with being their opponents . it sufficeth us , that in churches regularly using discipline , there is no ordinary way whereby offenders lose church-membership , but by excommunication : and that none can lose it while they live , that are not guilty of such evil as is censureable , or is matter of excommunication ; which the persons in question are not . another testimony here alledged , is from mr. cotton in his way of the churches , p. 9. where he saith , that many in churches have cut themselves off . ans. had the whole sentence been set down , every reader would have seen the impertinency of the allegation , as to the persons and case in question . mr. cot●●ns word● are these : many in other churches have ●ut themselves off from the covenant by their notorious wickedness and profaneness . and withall in the same place he addes , that arelapsed church , with all the members of it , are bound to renew their covenant in order to reformation : which shews , that they were not wholly cut off before , though their membership was but by being born in the church , and baptized , for of that he there speaks . we doubt not , but among the members of such relapsed churches might be found many much more degenerate ; then those described in the synods fifth preposition ; much less therefore are those discovenanted , but being in covenant , are bound to renew it in order to full communion . the next testimony here produced , is from those words in the discourse of church-covenant , pag. 17. viz. that if men had not promised , and also performed in some measure of truth , the duties of faith and obedience unto god , they had not taken hold of the covenant , but had discovenanted themselves , notwithstanding all the promises of god unto their fathers and others . thus though god promised abraham to be a god to him , and to his seed in their generations , genes . 17 7. yet the ishmaelites and edomites descending from abraham , were discovenanted by not promising nor performing those duties of faith and obedience which god required on the peoples part . now if this ( saith the apologist ) were truth in the year 1639. ( as it then had the approbation of the elde●s hereabouts ) we see no reason why it should not be truth in the year 1662. for , veritas in omnem partem sui semper eadem e●t . either this was a mistake then , or else it is a truth at this day . ans. let the words here cited , be c●ndidly interpreted , and they contain nothing repugnant to the present doctrine of the synod . for , it is true , that if men do not promise , or do not perform in some measure ( yea in some measure of truth , i. e. visibly , and in charitable and ecclesiastical reputation ) the duties of faith ▪ and obedien●e into god , they do discovendat themselves , i. e. they do it meritoriously , and do what lies in them ●n th●● part to destroy their membership : and ●hey so do it , as will inferre the absolute loss of their membership , viz. either by formal excommunication , if you speak of particular persons , and if the church do her duty ; or by the lor●s giving them a bill of divorce , if you speak of whole bodies of people , as here the ish●●cel●●s 〈◊〉 a e●ountes are spoken of . but what is all this to the children of our churches , de●●rib●d in the synod● fifth proposition , who do promise , and do in some ●easure though not in so full , a measure as were to be desired ) perform the duties of faith and obedience . this might be true in 1639. and in 1662. also . and yet our assertion may be true , and yours false notwithstanding . let our children appear to be such as the edo●ates and ishmaelites were ; or let them appear to be such as do in no measure ( yea , i. ● no meas●re of truth , i. e. as to church-visibility , or charitable hope ; for the church ●●ng● no further ) perf●rm the duties of faith and obedience , and we will with you plead , to have them put out of the church . but till then , i. e. as long as they do in some measure ( though yet but in a small and initiall measure ) perform the duties , and retain the essentials of christianity , or of faith and obedience ; they continue ( yea regularly continue ) in the church , for ought that hath yet appeared , either in 1639. or in 1662. we are loth to take notice of the insulting expressions that are here used , which are too-too uncomely ; especially there where th●●●fth commandment requireth special honour : but the intelligent reader will easily see the vanity of this con●●dence , to bring a testimony concerning the discovenanting of the ishmaelites and edomites , ( for they are expre●ly instanced in , as the explication of the not-promising , nor performing the duties of fa●●rand obedience intended by the author ) and then to triumph in it , as if that proved the discovenanting of our hopefull and non-excommunicable children , or thwarted the doctrine of the synod . when it is here added , [ this is the main thing wherein we dissent from the major part of the synod ] if by [ this ] be meant the assertion which is before expressed ; viz. that a church-member may possibly become no member , without any act of the church in formal censuring of him : then it is a great and ●trang● mi●re●resentation to say , that this is the main po●ut of your dissent . for , there be them that do ●eartily consent to all the concl●sions of the synod , and yet d● hold , and did in the synod express as much , that in some notorious cases , and where the church neglects her duty ( as hath been before said ) persons may be broken off , and looked at as non-members , though not formally censured ; or that a church-member may possibly , in some cases , become no member , without a formal censure : the reader therefore is greatly mis-led , and mis-informed , when he is told that this is the main point of our dissent . but when you a●●ert , that the children in question are become no members , or that persons , who were before members , do become no members as soon as ever they are adult , meerly by want of fitness for full communion , though they neither have not deser●e to have any church-censure pa●led upon them : this we confess is a main point wherein you dissent from the synod , and ( we suppose ) from scri●ture , and sound reason too . preface . here let us adde the words of mr. cotton , in his excellent treatise of the holiness of church me●bers , which are these following : [ such as are born and baptized mem●ers of the church , are not cruelty continued and confirmed members , unless when they grow up to years , they do before the lord and his people prayes their repentance and faith in ie●us chr●st ] answ. it is manifest , that by confirmed members , all along in that book , mr. cotton●eane● ●eane● such as are admitted to ●u● communi●n , or to the lords supper , and voting , ( and so he d●th expressly explain himself pag. 9. ) and for that , it is well known , we stand ●ully for the same qualifications that mr cotton intendeth according to h●●●erm of di●cipli●e , cap. ●2 sect. 7. the word [ continued ] is indeed added in pag 19. ( though not so in pag. 〈…〉 that book ; but it is added in a copulative way [ continued and confirmed ] w●ere all the parts must be taken together , to make up the truth of such an axiome . besides that the p●r●ons in question do make so●e profession of faith and repentance , i e. in an initial and educational way , so as sufficeth to their continuance in the visible church , though it may not at present suffice to full communion . mr. cotton was farre from conceiving that such non-scandalous persons as are the subject of our question are to be cut off , or looked upon as cut off from continuance in the church ; as ( besides what is cited of his in the synods preface ) may appear plainly out of this very treatise ( which is well called by our brethren an excellent treatise ) of the holiness of church-members ; for pag. 3. men ▪ ●oning a distinction of mr. ruther●urds , that a church may be termed no church , no spouse jure & meritò , & quoad vocationem passivam , in respect of bad deserving , and their not answering to the call of god , on their parts ; and yet the same church remain de 〈◊〉 , ●or aliter , & quoad vocationem det activam , the spouse and bride of c●rist : he sai●● , this distinction i can admit , if it be understood of a church hat hath formerly answered the call of god , and submitted to the ministry of the gospel , at least in outward propession of the fundamentals of sound doctrine , and pure worship : for such a chur●h , though they or ●heir children may afterward degenerate , and go a wher●ng from god in doctrine and worship , yet god in his patience and bounty is not wont so ●con to cast off ●hem , as they cast off him the next generation after 〈◊〉 ●e● , a ●horing from go● , and f●rs●ck the lord god of their fathers , and served baalim , yet still the lord accounted them his people , and sent them iudges and prophets to restore and recover them . and pag 19 , 20. he mentions distinctly by way of consectary from the proposition here cited by our brethren , two or three sorts of persons w●o are not to be continued in the church● though born and baptized in it ; viz. 1. the grosly ignorant of the first principles and foundations of religion — 3. persons notoriously scandalous for any gross crime , as i●latry , adultery , &c. but not a word of such an intere●ce as our brethren s●em to make , viz. the discontinuance or unchurching of such a sort of persons as are the subject of our question . and it is observable all along in that book , that he pleads not for the un-membering of any that are once in the church , yea though they came in but by a membership received in infancy ( for of such he often expresly speaks , and such were the members of those churches he disputes upon in answer to his opponents ) but onely such as are scandalous and wicked , and deserve excommunication , and he would have them also un-membered by excommunication , and not by a self-felony onely : see pag 8 , 15 , 28 , 32 , 56 , 57 , 60. preface . renowned parker , steaking of the interpretation of those words [ laying on of hands ] in heb 6.2 . cites many judicious writers , whose judgement he expresseth in words to this purpose ; that they who were baptize in minority , when they are grown up , after that the church had approved their faith by the symbol of imposition of hands they were admitted members of the church : this was according to sound doctrine in the primitive times ( as parker saith . ) now we demand , how they can be admitted as members ▪ who are already as compleat , and perfect members as any in the chur●h ? but the ancient doctrine was , that children who were baptized in minority , after they shall come to pro●ess their faith so as to be accepted of the church , may be admitted as members : therefore according to the ancient doctrine , such children are not as compleat and perfect members as any in the church . answ. whether the words [ tanquam membra admittehantur ] be parkers own words or calvins ( for he speaks as if he cited only calvins words ; yet we ●inde not those expressions used by calvin either on heb. 6.2 . or in his institutions , de confirmatione , though in both places is the substance of the thing which parker alledgeth from him ) the matter is not great . it is manifest from the whole discourse , that parker is there speaking of such as are admitted to full communion ▪ as we call it . if he there used the term [ members ] for persons admitted to the lords table , and to all church-priviledges , it is no harder phrase , then hath been used in this country for many years , yet that argues not that we do , or that parker did think children to be no members before . it is observed of the ancients . that they sp●ke more securely before the rise of pelagius ; men are less curious in expression , when they speak about points of which no controversie is moved , and wherein their judgements are otherwise sufficiently known . as what is more abudantly and univers●lly agreed on among all our divines , then this , that the children of believers are members of the church , or a part of it ? parker , within six lines of the place cited , calls them [ in ecclesiâ nati ] born in the church ; and opposeth them to [ extranei ] i. e. to such as are without ▪ dr. ames gives it as the doctrine of the protestants , the infants of the faithful , unless they were to be accounted members of the church , they cu●● not to be bapti●ed , vrsin and pareus say . omnes iique soli &c. all and onely th●●e are to be baptized by christs command , who are his disciples ( mat. 28.19 . ) i. e. those that are , and one to be accounted members of the visible church , whether they be adult persons professing faith and repentance , or infants born in the church . again , the infants of christians do as well as the adult belong to the covenant and church of god , and are therefore to be baptized , because the whole church ought to be baptized . c. techet . explicat . pag. 367. this truth is joyntly 〈…〉 protestant a●d reformed churches , as appears in the harmony of their confessions ; the children of t●e faithful are gods peculiar people and in the church of god , ( 〈…〉 , pag 397. ) reckoned in the number of gods people , ( bohemian 〈◊〉 , pag. 399. ) god doth together with the parents account their posterity also to be of the church , ( f●●nc c. ●●mon , p●g 401. ) they condemn the anabaptists , who hold tha● 〈◊〉 ●e no● 〈◊〉 the church ●f god , ( confession of auspurg , pag. 404. ) infants belong to the covenant an● church of god , as well as the adult , saith the pal●tinate catechism , que●● . ●4 . now ●●is being so , that it is the manifest doctrine of all our divines , that children are me●bers ●f the church ; and neither did they imagine , that when ●d●lt they drop ●ff by a self ●●lony , or we know not how : for when erasmus had said , that ch●l●ren bei●g grown 〈◊〉 they being askt , would not sta●d to what had been promised in their behalf , they ●ere to be le●t to themselves : calvin 〈◊〉 it as the saying of a man not wel exercised in ch●rch-government (h) . see also chemnit . exam. conc. trid. par . 2. de baptis . can. 14. & de confirmat . sub can. 3. whose words in the former of these places , the rea●er may find engli●●ed in the beginning of mr shepards treatise ●bout children●●ely ●●ely printed . and cartwright to ●●at question , what are the duties of the rest of the church that are pres●nt at a c●i●des baptisme ? answers , 1. to rejoyce and be glad at ●he increase of gods church — 3 when the childe come●h to age to do such duties as one member ●w●●h to another : he did not think its memb●rship ceased with infancy , but ( saith he ) when it cometh to age , such duties are to be do●e to it as one member oweth to another . hence we say , is it rational so to und●r●t●nd parker or calvin , as if they did think ( or approved it as sound doctrine in others to think ) that they who were baptized in minority , when after they are grown up , they have approved their faith , they are then first admitted me●bers , as if they were no members of the church before ? as the reader would think that that were the scope a●d sense of the testimony here cited . but to cite shreds●f ●f passages in authers in a sense contrary to those auth●rs known and declared judgement , is very injurious both to them and to the reader . he that reads what this preface here saith , would think that it is the iudgement of many judicious writers cited by parker , that children do then first enter into church-members●ip when their f●ith is approved by the church , after they are grown up , and that they are not members at all before that : when as it is most certain , and evident , that neither parker , nor any judicious writer cited by him , nor any one heretofore approved for a judi●ious writer , eit●er ancient or m●dern , did indeed so judge , but the contrary . and parkers words are clearly intended in another sense , viz. with reference in full communion . and so speaking of the very same matter in the first book of his ecclesiast . ●elit . cap. 10. he saith , that in the reformed churches the adult are ex●mined by the presbytery , approved by the consent of the people , and received by the wh●le church as members of the●r communion in a special manner , and so are as it were confirmed before they be admitted to the l●rds supper ; where [ members of their communion in a special manner ] is the same with [ members in full communion ] in our language : and so ●is words , together with the known practice of the reformed churches , do plainly confirm our distinction between initiated members and member , in f●● . communion ; but they are far from int●nding or holding forth either a denial of childrens membership , or a cessation thereof as soon as they become adult . as for the inference that is here made from parkers te●●imony ; therefore according to the ancient doctrine such children are not as compleat and perfect members as any in the church an● if his words do ●old in the s●nse in w●ich they are here alledged , then children are not onely members●s ●s any in the church , but they are not me●bers at all , or non-me●bers , seeing they are not ( it seers ) admitted membe●s , till when adult they have made their pr●fe●●●on . as for their being compleat and perfect members ▪ it s well known we say and hold that they are not compleat or perfect in point of communion , or priviledge , but onely in regard of the essence or relation of membership , i. e. they are properly and compleatly within the church , and not half in , and half out . to be ( ●ccording to divine institution ) within the church , is to be a member of the church , as the book ( before which this pref●ce is set ) well owns , pag. 41 〈…〉 any man ●●ew us one or●h●dox divine , or judicious writer , before or i● parkers dayes , that ever said that the children of the fai●●ful are ( either w●ile infants , or when ●dult , suppo●ing them not excommunicate nor deserving so to be ) not within the church . but with●l we hold , and so did parker , and the reformed churches , that ●●ere are many within the church , who may not ●ave co●pleat or ju●● communion in all the priviledges ●●ereof , and so are not compleat or perfect members in that ●ense , and ●word medu● . lib. 1. cap. 32. thes. 13. it is not we but you , that will have children ( 〈◊〉 l●ast all adult c●●ldren ) to be as compleat , a●d perfect members ( in this sense ) a● any in the church , or else to be no members at all , seeing you ac●nowl●dge none that are adult to be members unless they be in full communion . it is ●ur●●er added ; that when they are adult , in case they do not joyn unto the church , then they do not retain their members●ip which ●hey 〈…〉 minority n●w to joyn to the church is the act of one that is not j●yned , or is not a member ; so that unless , they 〈◊〉 themselves to be not members ( or unless they own thems●lves to ●●ve lost their membership ) they do not retain their member●●ip ; this we confess we do not understand . but so much for the discour●e upon the third objection . in the answer to the fourth objection , there is an high profession of much zeal for church care and watch to be extend●d tow●rd children , and much cle●rness therein ( even as the light at noon , and as if it were written with the beams of the sun ) so as that the reader would expect to finde very ample ●●tisf●ction in that matter ; but when it comes to , it ●●lls flat to no more but this ; that the watch over them is to be mediate according to the state of their membership : the church is to see that the parents ●● their duty toward their ●h●ld●en now we demand whether this be any more then the church should extend to a negro , or indian living in the family of one of their brethren , for should they not see that he do his duty toward him , and that in reference to the things of rel●gion ? yea , we might further ask whether this mediate watch ( viz. by seeing that the parents do their duty ) doth not belong as much to children when they are rejected and dis●●rne● by the church , as our brethren would have them ? and what shall become of children when their parents are dead ( as how many f●therle●s and motherless children are amo●g us ? ) or farre removed , and when children are sui juris , and not under the wings of their parents ? and why also should not baptism and catechizing ( as well as other church-benefits ) be dispensed onely mediately●nd ●nd not immediately unto children ? the reader may here see that the difference about 〈…〉 and immediate membership is more then a notion , it contains under it a thing of great moment . this mediate membership is made a medium to put our poor children from under the govern●e●t of christ , a●d to set them ( in their own persons ) as lamos in a large place . for by this the church hath nothing to do with them , nor can put forth any act ( e●●er of watch or censure ) immed●ately upon them , but upon their parents onely . but that church-watch ▪ government , no discipline is to be extended and administred to our children person●lly and immedi●a●ly ( i. e. according as in regard of age , and understanding they are capable there f ; viz. instruction and inspection , and that in an official way , even in younger years , a●d formal censures when adult , if they f●ll into such offences as do need ●nd deserve the same ) the reader may finde confirmed in the sy●●ds arguments , and in the following defence thereof (k) . haply the a●sertion 〈…〉 mediate church-care , is ●●eltered u●d●r that clause [ those ch●ldren that are in minority . ] b●● . 1. much help ( by instructions ▪ counsels , warnings repro●fs , exhortations , &c. ) and that in an authoritative way , and upon the account of their memberly relation , may be administred unto children thems●lves immediately in their own p●rsons ( besides looking to parents that they do their du●ies to them ) even while they are in their minori●y , though not yet capable of publick censures . 2. they are in the same state and relation to the church ( though not of the same capacity ) when in minority and when adult : if therefore ( not because of their natural incapacity , but ) because of the nature of their membership , onely mediate , and no immediate church-care , watch and government belong to them , while in minority , neither doth it belong to them when adult : and therefore this notion excludes all our children , both younger and elder from being under any church-government immediately in their own persons . so that let them run on in never such vile courses , the church cannot deal with them but with their parents onely ; and yet the case may often so be , that the parents are neither blameable for their misc●rriages , nor able to reform the same . but as mediate as their member●●ip is , here is somewhat added , that shall touch these adult children themselves ; and what is that ? why , i● when they 〈◊〉 be adult they do not bring forth fruits of repentance , and faith , then the church is to dis●wn them , at having no part in the lord. ans. 1. is this according to the spirit of christ , or like the lords proceeding with his covenant-people in the scripture , presently to disown them , and cast them off , if some evil fruits , nay if want of g●od fruits be 〈◊〉 in them , then at first step to call them loam●i , and tell them they have no part in the lord ? hath the lord vouchs●fed to take these persons into his g●orious cove●●nt , and ●o real it to them in baptism before men and angels ; and doth it come but to this ? that if poor childre● , as soon as the day of ripe understanding d●wns upon them , do not bring 〈◊〉 the fruits of faith and repentance , yea such fruits as may sit them for fel● communion , they are then presently declared to be discovenanted , and to be turned d●ift as those who have no part in the lord ? it is true , the most hopeful childe , yea the best of us all , might justly be discovenanted by the lord , should he strictly mark what is amis● ▪ and deal acc●rding to our deserts ▪ but he is graciously pleased not to proceed with 〈◊〉 severity , but with much patience and long suffering towards those whom he once take , into covenant . and who or what is man , that he should be more holy then the lord ! let but that one scripture be looked upon ( among many other ▪ ) touching the barren fig-tree , which is here cited , as if it gave some countenance to this present disowning , in case of barrenness . the lord comes in the time and season of fruit , and findes none , and yet he waits another year after that , and a third after that ( i. e. a long time , and with great demonstration of patience ) before he speaks of cutting it down ; and then the vine-dresser ( acted therein by the spirit of god ) cries ( not cut it down presently , but ) lord , let it alone one year more ( i. e. till it appear utterly hopeless , and incureable ) that i may dig about it , and dung it : he chooseth rather to make it a subject of labour and culture , then to case himself by rid●●ng his hands of it . also that parable points to the people of the iews , to and among whom chr●st preached : now the following story of the new testament tells us , that christ and his apostles w●ited on them , till they appeared altogether incureable and inc●rrig●●e , and till their incureable barre●ness dis●overed it self by p●sitive fruits of wicked opposing and rejecting the gos●el before they were cut down , or broken off : and the ap●●tles when they preached to the adult , and yet impenitent iews , did not tell them they had no part in the lord , but on the contrary expressly told them , they had a part in the lord , and in his covenant-dispensations , and urged that as an argument to ●raw them to repent and believe , though they had not yet done it , acts 13.19.25 , 26. acts 3.26 , 26. they were farre from being an occasion of making them cease from fearing the lord , by telling them they had no part in him . 2. suppose any of these children when adult do bring forth some fruits of faith and repentance ▪ ( as those , des●ribed in the synods fifth proposition , can hardly be denied in charitable reputation to do ) though not so full and ripe fruits as were to be desired , and haply not such , as themselves do finde encourage●ent to approach to the lords table ; what shall be done to these ? shall they be owned ▪ or disowned ? are they in the church , or out ? if in , why is baptism denied to their children ? if out , how co●e they so to be ? or where doth god in his word say , or allow us to say to such hopeful young men and women , as through grace many of our children are ( though not yet in full communion ) that they have no part in the lord ? 3. w●at is t●is disow●ing ? and where shall we have scripture-warrant for such a church-disowning as is not excommuni●ation ? for that , our bret●ren see not warrant to proc●ed unto ; but 〈◊〉 down this rule [ the church is to disown them , or having no part in the lord ] if any man speak ( especi●lly if he speak rules according to w●ic● the church is to practise ) let him speak as the oracles of god. it were needful that this disowning ( contradistinguished to excommunication ) should be cleared from thence . admonition and excommunication we hear plainly of in the scripture , and in orthodox divinity ; but a disowning , that is a kinde of publick church-censure , and yet is neither admonition , nor excommunication , this seems to be a new invented piece of discipline . we demand , whether this disowning be not a putting one out of the church , that was before in it ? if so , what is it but excommunication , which the apostle expresseth by that [ put away from among you , 1 cor. 5.13 . ] if not , is it not a vain thing ? the person whom you are about to disown is either within the church , or with●ut ; a member , or not a member (l) if he be within , why may you not judge and censure him with the censure of cutting off , or casting out , i. e. excommunication ( 1 cor. 5.12 , 13. ) there being cause for it ? if he be without , why should you disown him , any more then you do non-members , or such as were never joyned to the church ? would it not seem a strange and vain thing , if the church should put forth a solemn publick act to disown a company of non-members that are without the church ? to what purpose should this be ? how acts 8.21 . here cited in the margin , should make for this disowning , we understand not . peter there tells simon magus , that he was farre from having any part or lot in the matter of conferring the extraordinary gifts of the holy ghost , which he never had , but ambitiously aspired after ; but doth not declare that he had discovenanted himself , or had lost his membership which he once had . and whatever became of simon magus afterward ( of which the scripture is silent , and stories uncertain ) there is no ground to think , that he was then put out of the church , or lost his membership . but rather the apostle ( by grave apostolical rebuke and counsel ) applies himself to him , as to one in the church , to bring him to repentance , and to that sincerity of grace , which he yet wanted , vers● 22 , 13. as for the reason here rendred , why excommunication agrees not to the children in question , viz. because it is applicable to none but those who have been in full communion . this is but a begging of the question , and carrieth not evidence of truth with it . 〈◊〉 excommunication ( i. e. the utmost censure , so called ) doth not properly or nextly debarre or exclude from full communion , but it cutteth off from membership ( rendreth a person as an heathen and publican , mat. 18.17 . ) and so from that communion that belongeth to a member as such . when a person that hath stood for some time admonished , is afterward , for his contumacy , excommunicated , it is not excommunication that doth immediately and properly put him out of full communion , for that was done by admonition ; whereby , being ecclesiastically unclean , he was justly suspended from eating of the holy things : but excommunication cuts him off from membership , which admonition did not . hence it is not full communion , but membership that doth properly , and formally render a person a subject capable of excommunication : hence it agrees to all that are members though they have not been in full communion ; and every member hath some communion though not full communion , and therefore may be excommunicated . paul when he is speaking of the churches judicial proceeding , and that unto excommunication , makes it applicable to all that are within , 1 cor. 5.12 . if in full communion , yet church-judgement f●lls upon them not as in full communion , but as within . the casting out of cain and ishmael , the cutting off of the born members of the church of israel from their people ( an expression often used ) the casting out of the children of the kingdome , matth. 8.12 . do at least by consequence , and by proportion , and parity of reason , shew that the children in question may be cast out , and cut off from the church by the censure of excommunication . as for that term of [ formal ] excommunication , we know not that we are limited to this or that precise form of words , in excommunicating one sort or other ; but the formal nature of the thing ( viz. a putting of one out of the church that was before in it ) this well agrees to the persons in question . we pass by the fifth and last objection ( which chargeth our dissenting brethren with weakness , ignorance , &c. ) as containing nothing that is argumentative to the matter in hand . neither do we own the objection , unless it be against our selves , who are ( as we have acknowledged in our preface to the synods conclusions ) poor , feeble , frail men , desiring not to trust unto , or boast of any strength of our own ( which is none at all ) but onely to the strength and grace of jesus christ , withall acknowledging that grace of his , whereby he doth vouchsafe sometimes to reveal his truth unto babes . we tender onely scriptures and scripture-arguments , for that which we maintan , desiring that they may be impartially considered , without challenging to our selves , or pleading for the reputation of strength or wisdome . in disputes of this nature , it is impossible but that e●ch part should look upon the arguments on either hand , as strong or weak , according as they are perswaded . but can we not deal with arguments , without being supposed to reflect upon the persons each of other ? we suppose you do not see sufficient strength in our arguments ( for then you would judge as we do ) and in that sense you do impute weakness to them . in the like sense do we unto yours , but desire to do it without any harsh reflexions upon the persons of our brethren , and without liftings up in our selves , who have cause enough to lye in the dust before god and man. but here our brethren take occasion to set down the reasons of their dissent from the synod : which make up a second main part of this preface . the consideration whereof we shall now address our selves unto . reason 1. the synod did acknowledge , that there ought to be true saving faith in the parent , according to the judgement of rational charity , or else the ch●l●e ought not to be baptized . but they would not let this ( which themselves acknowledged ) be set down , though our vnity lay at the stake for it . answ. the regular receiver of the truth , is one that divides the hoof , as well as chews the cud ; one that doth not take all in a lump , but distinguishes , and rightly divides between things that differ . we are to distinguish here , 1. between faith in the being or first beginning of it , whereby one is , or is reputed to be in the state of a believer , the charitable , judgement whereof runs upon a great latitude ; and faith in the special exercise of it , whereby one is fit for that special communion with , and active fruition of christ , which is the scope of the lords supper : unto the visible discovery whereof , more lively fruits , and more experienced operations of faith are requisite . 2. distinguish between the internal grace it self , which is required of them that partake of sacraments in the sight of god ; and those external signs of that grace which the church is to proceed upon in her admission of persons unto sacraments . these two distinctions being attended , and rightly applied , will help to clear both the truth it self in this matter from mistakes , and the proceedings of the synod from those uncomfortable reflexions that are here cast upon them . the former of these distinctions , and the application thereof to the matter in hand , we have in dr. ames ; (a) children ( saith he ) are not to be admitted to partake of all church-priviledges , untill first increase of faith do appear , but from those which belong to the beginning of faith , and entrance into the church , they are not to be excluded . where the doctor distinguisheth between ( initium fidei ) the beginning of faith ; and ( incrementum fidei ) the increase or growth of faith , and makes the former to suffice unto baptism , but the latter to be requisite to full communion , or to the lords supper . an initial faith entitleth to the seal of initiation , but a grown faith ( i. e. a faith of some growth , though yet farre short of perfection , and needing to grow still ) a faith growing up unto some sensible and lively exercise , is requisite unto the sacrament of growth and fruition . they were believers , yet but initial believers that iohn baptized , in the first dawning or beginning of the gospel , mark 1.1 — 4. the apostles constantly baptized persons upon the first beginning of their christianity , but the lords supper followed after , as annexed to some progress in christianity . the latter distinction also is obvious and necessary . who ought to come , and , who ought to be admitted , are two distinct questions , say vrsin , and (c) parem . we grant that true saving faith and repentance is required by god of those that partake of sacraments for themselves , or for their children : but the question is , what are the external signs and tokens of that grace , which an ecclesiastical charitable reputation may proceed upon ; for we can go no further then the judgement of rational charity ( as here our brethren acknowledge ) and that proceeds upon outward probable signs , leaving the infallible knowledge of the heart to god onely . the distinction between a iew outwardly , or a visible jew that hath praise of ( or approbation among ) men , and inwar●ly●●at ●●at hath praise of god , is a scripture-distinction , rom. 2.28 , 29. and is necessary to be attended h●re ; for , de ●ecultis non judicat ecclesia , 1 cor. 4.5 . and here also we conceive , that the same strictness , as to outward signs , is not necessary unto a charitable probable jud●ement or hope of the being of faith , or of that initial faith that entitleth to bap●ism , as is unto the like judgement of the spe●ial exer●ise of faith that is requisite to the lords supper ; there be many things that do both really , and in the just reputation of men , hinder the exercise of grace , and so hinder from the lords supper , which yet do not away● charitable hope of the being of grace , or the state of a believer . if a man be under offence in the church , he is suspended from the lords supper ( till a renewing or exercise of repentance do appear ) yet we still repute him to be in the state of a believer , or to have the being of grace . now then to apply this to the synods proceedings , for answer to what is here s●id , viz. [ that the synod did acknowledge there ought to be true saving faith in the parent to the judgement o● rational charity , or else the childe ought not to be baptized ; yet could not be prevailed with to set this down ●●r a conclusion . ] 1. we did and do acknowledge , that in ecclesiastical charitable reputation , there must be faith , ( yea true saving faith ; those words hurt us not , provided they be not ▪ so strained , as to turn charity into r●gid se●erity ) i. e. the being of faith whereby a person is accounted to be in the state of a believer ( baptism being , as was in the synod alledged , annexed properly to the state of a believer , or to the covenant-state of a person , and not to the present act or exercise of faith ; and hence though there be no parent alive to act for the childe , and the childe cannot at present act for it self , yet that hinders not its baptism : ) but we did not acknowledge , it was necessary there should be faith in the lively and special exercise of it , such as we justly require an appearance of unto rational charity , in order unto full communion , which is that our brethren aim at , and stand for , in all whose children they will have baptized . and to set down a conclusion in general terms , when the nature of the case calls for distinct●ess , is not rational . 2 our main work was to consider of , and pitch upon such external signs and characters , as the churches charity might and should proceed upon in this case . we all own , that onely visible believers , or visible saints , are to have their children baptized ; but the question is , who are to be accounted visible believers ; and we say that those described in the f●●●h proposition are of that nu●b●r . to have put it in such a general term , as [ those that profe●s , or hold forth faith and repentance unto the satisfaction of rational charity ] had been to leave the matter as obscure as we found it , and in stead of giving light to the churches ( which is the end of synods ) to leave the● in the dark without any help to discover their way : for still they are to seek , who those are that are to be accounted professors of faith and repentance , and what profession that is , that charity may accept in order to their childrens baptism . besides , it is well known , that those expressions [ of holding forth faith and repentance , &c. ] have been constantly so taken in this country , as to hold forth the qualifications required for full communion : and that was it which our brethren strove for , so to screw up the expre●sions for bap●ism , as that all that have their children baptized must unavoidably be brought to the lords table , and to a power of voting in our churches , wherein we cannot consent to them : and however we are charged with corrupting the churches , yet we believe time will shew that that principle that over inlargeth full communion , or that will have all of whom we can have any hope that they have any good in the● , to come to the lords table ; this ( we say ) will prove a church-corrupting principle , and those that have laboured to keep up the p●rtition here ▪ will be found to have been s●riously studious of the parity and safety of the churches . 3. but when it is 〈◊〉 that the synod could not be brought to express what themselves acknowledge 〈◊〉 that the parent whose childe i● baptized must have faith to the judg●ent of charity , or which is all one must be a visible believer : we desire it may be considered with what truth this can be 〈◊〉 for it was offered ●gain and again to express it 〈◊〉 plai●ly , and particularly , if that would have satisfied as th●se that were present in those agitations ( too long here to be inserted ) may re●e●ber , and the proposition made ●as refused by some of themselves that dissented ; but it is competently expressed in the synods result , as now printed ; for when we limit the baptizable to confederate visible believers , and their infant-seed , in propos. 1. & 2. and then say , that those described in propos. 5 , 6 , & 7. are to have their children baptized , doth it not imply , that the parents , there described are confederate visible believers , unless you will make us to speak inconsistencies ? again , it is 〈◊〉 made one argument to prove the fifth proposition , that the parents there described are confederate visible believers . and do we not then express this , that the parent whose child● is to be baptized must be a confederate visible believer ? and is not that all one , as to have true faith in the judgement o● charity ? how then is it here said , that the synod would not let this which themselves acknowledged , be expressed , though our vnity lay at the stake for it ? surely such misrepresentation of things with so much injurious reflexion should be forborn by godly brethren . if that would have vnited us , to own that the parent must be a visible believer , it was owned , and granted toties quo●ies , and is contained in the propositions and arguments , as any intelligent reader will easily see but the disagreement lay here , that your selves would not consent to any such acceptation , or to any such characters or expressions of a visible be●●ever , but such as should unavoidably bring him into full communion . and we di●●ered about this , who are visible believers ? not whether the parents that have baptism for their children must be such . in sum , the reason of our disagreement , was not because we would not own our own principle ( as is here strangely represented ) but because we could not consent to yours , and because you refused to have a common principle any way expressed but so as might suit with your own nation , though our unity lay at the stake for it . reason 2. the second reason which our brethren here give of their dissent from the synod , stands thus ; there is no warrant in all scripture , to apply the seal of baptism unto those children , whose parents are in a state of unfi●ness for the lords supper . but the parents in question are in a state of unfitness for the lords supper ; therefore there is no warrant in all the scripture to baptize their children : this we suppose is the assumption , and conclusion that is understood , if this second reason be intended as a reason of their dissent from the synods fifth proposition . unless it be intended onely as a dissent from that which is ●●uched and contained in the synods discourse , viz. that some may have their children baptized , who yet are short of actual fitness for the lords supper : but the answer to it will take in both . and the answer will easily be given , if once we understand distinctly what is meant by [ a state of unfitness ] for the lords ●upper : now by a state of unfitness , must be meant either non-membership , and that is indeed a state of unfitness for the lords supper , which belongs onely to the church , ( though not to all in the church , yet onely to it ) and in this sense the assumption above mentioned is denied ; for the parents in question are members of the church , and in that respect in a state of fitness for the lords supper : i. e. being in the church ( or members thereof ) to them belong all church-priviledges , according as they shall be capable thereof , and appear duely qualified for the same ; they have jus ad rem , though not jus in re , as a childe hath a right to all his fathers estate , though he may not ( ought not to ) have the actual use and fruition of it , till he become to years , and be qualified with abilities to manage it . a free ●an is in a state of fitness to be a mag●stra●e or deputy ; ( or in some other office proper to freemen ) though for want of particul●r qu●lifications or orderly admission by election , he may haply never be one in such a sense every church-member is in a state of fitness for the lords supper . or else by [ a state of unfitness for the lords supper ] is 〈◊〉 [ want of actual qualifications fitting ] for it , whereby a person either is in himself short of actual fitness for the lords table , or wanteth church appro●ation of his fitness , and ●o wanteth an orderly admission thereunto . now in this sense we deny the major ( or proposition ) of the argument above mentioned , and do conceive that there i● warrant to be ●●und in scripture for the applying of baptism to children , 〈◊〉 parents do want actual qualifications fitting them for the lords supper among sundry other scripture evidences of it , one is from the analogie of the passeover , and circumcision in the church of i●rael , where the par●nt might want actual fitness for the passeover , by manifold ceremonial uncleannesses , and yet that hindred not the circumcising of the childe . now a liberty of arguing from thence to the gospel passeover , and gospel-circumcision ( i. e. to the lords supper and baptism ) is here granted and allowed : but 't is answered , that vnless the father were in a state of fitness for the passeover , he was not fit to have his childe circumcised . reply . wh●t state of fitness was the unclean iewish parent in , but onely a state of membership ? he was a member of the church , and so 〈◊〉 the parents in question ; and they need not , do not enter into a new membership when they are admitted to the lords table , no more then the iewish parent after his cleansing did . but in two things the case of the ceremonially-unclean jewish parent , holds proportion with the case in hand . 1. he must have other , and better qualifications then he hath at present , before he eat of the passover ; he is at present in a state of legal impurity ( and so , in regard of actual qualifications , in a state of unfitness ) but he must be in a state of legal purity and cleanness , before he partake of the holy things . 2. he must ( especially after some uncleannesses of a more remarkable nature ) be judged and pronounced by the priest to be clean , and so free to partake of the holy things , levit. 13.6 . so the parents in question must have their fitness for the lords table judged of , and approved by those in the church , to whom the power of such judgement and approbation doth belong : and having these two things ( personal qualifications , and church-approbation ) then ( and not before ) they are to come to the lords table ; and those two are all they need : they do not need a new admittance into membership ( as if they were before not of the church ) no more then the israelitish parent did . if any one object , that this legal uncleanness was but an accidental and ceremonial thing , and did not import the want of any moral or essential fitness for the passover : let him consider , that as the discipline then was mostly ceremonial (a) , and hence legal purity was then an essential qualification unto a regular fitness for the passover , and other holy things , and the want of it a reall barre ; so those ceremonies pointed unto moral and spiritual things to be attended by us now . their legal cleansings , washings , &c. did import , and signifie a special exercise of faith and repentance ; which therefore we may well require in those whom we admit unto full communion in the holy things of the gospel ; yet the present defect hereof doth not put the parent out of the church , nor exclude his children from membership , or from the initiatory seal of it , no more then a-like defect did then . we might also minde the case of one that hath been in full communion , but falling into offence is under publick admonition for it ; is not he in a state of unfitness ( taking it for want of actual fitting qualifications ) for the lords supper ? yet this will not debarre his childe from baptism , because he is not yet cut off from membership . neither doth his having once been in full communion alter the case , or render him more [ in a state of fitness ] then the parent in question is ; for the one , is a member as well and as truely as the other : and to be declined , and fallen off from supper-qualifications , and debarred from the lords table for open offence , is worse then for a young man simply not to have attained thereunto ( it is , at least , ecclesiastical●y worse . we speak not of what the inward state before god may be ; but that it is worse in foro ecclesiae , appears , because the church hath had and seen cause to dispense a publick censure in the one case , but not in the other ) now if a person may retain his membership , and so derive baptism-right to his children , notwithstanding his personal unfitness for the lords supper in the former case , why not as well , nay much more in the latter ? but let it seriously be considered whether there be any warrant in all the scripture to make the baptizing of the childe to depend upon the parents actual fitness for , or admission to the lords supper (c) . what fitness for the lords supper had those that were baptized by iohn baptist , and by christs disciples at his appointment in the beginning of his publick ministry ? what fitness had the iaylor , when himself and all his were baptized after an hours instinction ; wherein ( probably ) he had not so much as heard any thing of the lords supper ? the teaching of which followed after discipling and baptizing , as is hinted by that order in matth. 28.19 , 20 and by the ancient practice of not teaching the catechumeni any thing about the lords supper till after they were baptized , as is witnessed by hanmer of confirmation , pag. 13 , 14. albaspinans apud baxter of confirmation , pag. 132. we constantly read in the story of the acts that persons were baptized immediately upon their first entrance into membership , but we never read that they did immediately upon their first membership receive the lords supper , which strongly argues that membership , and baptism the seal thereof , is separable even in the adult from full communion . and that a man may have his children baptized ( as the iaylor , and others had ) and yet not presently come ( but need further instruction and preparation before he come ) to the lords supper . so farre is baptism from being inseparable from immediate admission to the lords supper , that we reade of no one , ( no not of the ●dult ) in all the new testament tha● was admitted to the lords supper immediately upon his baptism , from the first baptism of iohn , to the end of the acts of the apostles . there is but one place that sounds as if it were quickly after , viz. acts 2.41 , 42. which is here alledged by our brethren : but to that ; 1. there is no word about the lords supper in peters sermon , the heads whereof are in that chapter set down , though t●ere is somewhat of the other sacrament of baptism , ver . 38. and upon glad receiving 〈◊〉 is word they were baptized immediately , ver . 41. 2. hence there must be some time afterward for instructing them in the doctrine and use of the lords supper ( as paul nad some time for that a● corinth , 1 cor. 11.23 . with acts 18.11 . ) before their admission t●ereunto , or participation thereof ; and so much is ●●●imated in the text , when it s said , they ( after their being added , and baptized ) continued in ( or gave sedulous attendance to ) the apostles [ doctrine ] fi●st , and then [ breaking of bread ] there was some time of gaining further acquaintance with christ , and with his wayes and ordinances ( and with this in special ) by the apostles doctrine and instruction , between their baptizing , and their participation of the supper : some time ( we say ) more or less , and that that was attained in a very little time then under those plentiful pourings forth of the spirit , requires usually a much longer time now in ordinary dispensation . the preface proceeds to strengthen their second reason by testimonies ; and the assertion which they seem to intend the proof of by these testimonies , is a very strange one ; viz. this : [ neither do we reade that in the primitive times baptism was of a greater latitude , as to the subject thereof , then the lords supper , but the contrary ] these words , as they are here set down , do speak as if in the primitive times baptism was not extended unto infants ; or at least no more , nor sooner then the lords supper was given unto them ( which is here presently well acknowledged to have been a grievous errour ) well might the anabaptist triumph if this could be proved , which indeed never was , nor can be : but we are willing to believe that our brethrens meaning is ( though it be not so expressed ) that the subject of baptism in ancient times was not of a greater latitude [ as to the adult ] then the lords supper , i. e. that no adult persons might have baptism for themselves or for their children , but such as were also admitted to the lords supper . but of this also we must say , that we finde not any thing that proves it , but much to the contrary . and though we have not met with any that have purposely handled this point touching the different extent of these two sacraments , yet we finde enough to shew us , that the churches of christ in all , especially in the best ages , and the choicest lights therein , both ancient and modern , have concurred and met in this principle ( as a granted and undoubted truth ) that baptism is of larger extent then the lords supper : so as that many that are within the visible church may have baptism for themselves , or at least for their chil●ren , who yet ought not presently to partake of the lords supper , or who do at present want actual fitness for it . the witnesses above cited , tell us that in ancient times they did not so much as impart any thing to the ca●echumeni about the lords supper , till after their baptism : and , if hanmer have rightly observed , even the adult , after their baptism , must have confirmation before they partaked of the lords supper . hanmer of confirmation , pag. 15 — 22. and vid. pag. 59. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or perfectus among the ancients , is as much as ( with us ) one in full communion ; but none were by them rec●oned to be 〈◊〉 ( in the rank of perfect christians ) that had not received the holy ghost either in extraordinary gifts , or in special confirming grace . see hanmer of confirmat . pag. 17. now it 's evident , that even in the apostles times sundry were baptized that had not so received the holy ghost , acts 8 ▪ 15 ; 16 , 17. & 19 : 2 — 6. but there are sundry further evidences at hand ( were there room here to insort them ) which show that in those first ages of the church , there were many within the church , 〈◊〉 were debarred from the lords supper : wh● yet had their children baptized . in after 〈◊〉 how large baptism was , may easily be gathered : but that there was ( though t●o much l●xness ) some more restraint in the lords supper , appears by the canonists old verse , ebrius , infami● , erroneus , atque furentes , cum pueris , domin . non debent sumere corpus . as for the times since the reformation , it is most evident that godly reforming divines have in their doctrine unanimously taught , and in their practice ( many 〈◊〉 then . ) endeavoured a strict selection of those that should be admitted to the lords supper , when yet they have been 〈◊〉 large in poi●● of baptism ; and they still ●o upon this principle , that not all christians , nor a● baptized and genera●●y-professing christians , but onely such as are able ( or may be reputed able and careful ) to examine themselves , and discern the lords body , are to be admitted to the lords supper . but they reckon that all christians ( a● that are , in their account , within the visible church ) are to have their children baptized . be it that in practice they were , many of them , too lax and large in both the sacraments , chiefly through want of a due and effectual use of discipline ( by defect whereof many were sinfully tolerated in the church , who should have been cast out and cut off , and many suffered to come to the lords table , who should have been debarred and suspended ) of which themselves do 〈◊〉 sadly complain (b) . yet it shews thus much ( which is that we aim at ) that they held a different latitude of the two sacraments , as to the subjects thereof ( even in the very sense of our question ) denying the lords supper to many parents , whose children yet they scrupled not to baptize : this goes for currant among all our great divines as a granted principle , whereof many large and full testimonies might easily be produced . calvin in his geneva-cate●hism , to that question , whether pasters may give the sacraments to all ? answers , ●uod ad baptis●um pertinet , quia non nisi insantibus 〈◊〉 confertur , d●scre●●o ●●cu●●non habet : in can●●ero tavere dehet minister ne cui ipsam porrigat , quem indignum esse palàm constet . if calvin would baptize all children born among them without difference ( looking upon them as born within the visible church ) and yet not give the lords supper to all , then he would baptize some children whose parents he would not ad●it to the lords supper . lu●o● ▪ cr●●ius describing the subjects of baptism , saith , infantes verò omnes , &c. all such ●nfants as are either born of christian parents , or brought into the society of christians are to be baptized . but of the lords ●upper , s●lt quidem christians , &c. onely christians are to be admitted to the holy supper . yet not promis●u●usty all christians ; but onely those who both can and will examine themselves , rightly discern the lords body , and celebrate this sacrament unto a commemoration of the dea●h of chirst — but there are many in the christian church that either cannot or will not ●o those things and these are not to be admitted . 〈◊〉 , touching the lords supper ▪ saith , est sacramentum , &c. it is a sacrament appointed for such in the christian church as are already baptized and adult , and do examine themselves (a) . and in another place (b) unto this question , to whom is the lords supper to be given ? he answers , to all the faithful members of the church , who can examine themselves , and are instructed in the ministery of faith , and can 〈◊〉 forth the lords death . for unto this mystery there is required examination of ones self , and annunciation of the lords death . and therefore it is not to be given to vnbelievers not to infants , not to distracted persons , not to those that are ignorant of the mysteries , not to the impenitent , not to those that are by the orderly judgement of the church excommunicate not to such as are polluted either with ●anifest errours , or with any notorious wickedness , until they have first satisfied the church , and g●ve ▪ testimony of their repentance . compare herewith his latitude for baptism , exoresly granti●g that so sundry of thos● sorts , to whom he denies the lords supper (c) . ●ez● , concerning the question who are to be baptized ? saith ▪ all that are comprehended within the tables of the covenant , &c. (d) . but to that question , would you admit all sorts to the lor●s supper ? he an●wereth with great ze●l for 〈◊〉 and care therein , and among other expre●●●ons , th●se ( saith he ) whose 〈◊〉 age sheweth them not to be of ability to examine themselves 〈…〉 not as unworthy , but as not yet fit . ●ut of the adult no one is to be 〈◊〉 . except he have one may or other so given account of his faith at that the paster may probably gather ( not onely that he was born in the church but also ) that he is indeed a christian (e) . pelanius , touching the subjects of the lords supper , saith , vnto the lords supper maybe admitted onely christians 〈◊〉 baptized and adult , and such as can examine their 〈◊〉 , with thank 〈…〉 remember christ and shew forth (e) his death . but of baptism , all that are in covenant with god — infants born of christian parents are to be baptized . ge●k●r . in his c●●mon places a●●erts ●hat soli christiani , &c. onely christians ( i. e. such as embrace the doctrine of christ , as have received the sacrament of baptism , and are implanted into the christian church ) yet not 〈◊〉 christians are to be admi●●ed to the holy supper ; but according to paul●s rule these onely 〈◊〉 examine themselves , 〈◊〉 the lor●s body , a●● shew ●●rib the lords 〈◊〉 , 1 cor 11.26 , 28 , 29. all 〈◊〉 therefore are excluded , who either will not 〈…〉 examine themselves (f) . bu● he extends baptism to all children born of ( one or both ) christian parents , o● that come into the power of such (g) . the like may be observed in the confessions of the reformed churches , when as they declare for a special selection of those whom they admit to the lords supper● see the confe●●●●● of bohemia . harmony of confess . pag. 421. of belgia , pag. 432. of aus●●ge , pag. 438 , 440. or saxony , p. 447 , 44● . ●nd the confession of scotland in the end of that harmony , pag. 24. comparing this with the deep silence of them ●ll touching any such selectio● in point of baptism● as to the children that are born among them : and it is kno●n to be their ordinary practice to baptize many children , whose parents they would not admit to the lords supper . all which , with many more testimonies that might be alledged , do abundantly shew it to have been the concurrent judgement of protestant divines , that baptism is of greater latitude then the lords supper : and that all that do bring their children to partake of the former , 〈◊〉 n●t therefore themselves presently partake of th● latter ; but that many may have their ch●ldren baptized , and yet regularly be debarred from the lords supper . we might also mention the concurrence of divines with us in particular reasons explications , and assertions relating to ●●is matter : ●● , that baptism is annexed to the ●eing or beginning of faith , the lords supper to the special exercise of it ▪ that baptism belongs to all members , but the lords supper to so●e onely that are so and so qualified : that all visible believers , ( who in a latitude of expression , and ecclesiastical reputation are such , as are all that are within the church ) are not to be admitted to the lords supper . vrsin and pareus , answering that objection against the baptism of infants , that then they must be admitted to the lords supper ; have these words : magnum discrimen , &c. there is a great difference between baptism and the supper . for , 1. baptism is a sacrament of entrance and r●ception into the church : but 〈◊〉 supper is a sacrament of continuance in the church 〈◊〉 confirmation of the reception 〈◊〉 made — 2. regeneration by 〈…〉 (h) and not to them presently , but after that they have held forth a confession of faith and repentance (i) . also it may be minded , that it is the currant and constant expression of our divines , that they call , and count all that are within the compass of the visible church ( whether infants , or adult ) fideles , v●cati , ( faithful , called &c. ) and they will tell you that they are for baptizing no infants but such as are ( infantes fidelium ) the infants of the faithful or of believers , infantes non omnes , sed duntaxat fidelium , i. e. baptizatorum , sunt baptizandi . chamier . tom. 4. pag. 130. so daneus , infantes ex fidelibus , i. e. baptiza●●s nati , possunt baptizari in ecclesia . lib. 5. de sacram. pag. 538. and yet they do not look at all these ( no not at all the adult that come under this denomination , and whose children they baptize ) to be regularly admittable to the lords supper , which plainly shews their judgement to be that all adult persons who are in a latitude of expression to be accounted visible believers ( or in ecclesiastical reputation to be lookt at as fideles ) are not therefore to partake of the lords supper . dr. ames , accounts that a person may be a believer on christ and yet be unfit for the lords supper , being not sufficiently instructed thereunto . bellar. enerv. tom. 3. lib. 4. cap. 1. and he expresly saith that church-children are to be numbred among the faithful , and reckons them to have the beginning of faith , yet not to be admitted to all ordinances till increase of faith appear , medul . lib. 1. cap. 32. thes. 12 , 13. mr. hooker takes it for granted as a clear case , that one may be a convert soundly brought home to christ , and yet through his weakness not able to discern the lords body aright , nor fit to partake of the supper . survey . part . 3. pag. 16. and in his sermons on gen. 17.23 . pag. 21. he hath these words , baptism is the entrance into christs family ; there is much more to be looked at to make a person capable of the supper of the lord , a man must be able to examine himself , he must not onely have grace , but growth of grace ; he must have so much perfection in grace as to search his own heart , and he must be able to discern the lords body , or else he is guilty of the body and blood of christ ; so as there is more required in this , for there must be a growth . but baptism is our entrance , and the lowest degree of grace will serve here in the judgement of charity . worthy hildersam on psal. 51.5 . pag. 257. saith , the infants of the faithful are said to be holy , not because they are without sin , but because ( in the judgement of the church ) they are to be esteemed not infidels as other children of pagans , but christians and believers , and holy and true members of the church of god. and hence 1. so soon as they are born they have title to the seal of gods covenant , and the church may not deny it unto then . — and why may not the church deny baptism to any childe of a believing parent ? surely because the church is bound to esteem every such childe not an infidel , but rather a believer and a true christian. 2. when they dye we are in christian charity to judge that they dye in gods favour , and in the state of salvation . and all this because of the covenant , gen. 17. as he there addes . yet the same hildersam would not admit such as these ( who were born and grew up in the visible church ) to the lords table , without a strict examination not onely of their knowledge and lives , but of their spiritual estate . doct. of lords supper , pag. 8 — 14. all which we produce , not as if the testimony and concurrence of authors were the basis that our judgement in this matter stands upon , but because this preface doth , both in this place and in other parts of it , insinuate to the reader as if authority of writers were for the dissenters , and against the doctrine of the synod , which is farre from being so : the contrary being abundantly , and undeniably evident . and as we bottom our faith in this point , wholly and onely upon the scriptures , and do referre the decision of this and of all other theological controversies to the law and to the testimony : so we acknowledge it to be no small confirmation to us , to finde that we have the concurrence of the godly-learned . the substance of the congregational-way may be gathered from the doctrine & principles of our best and ablest reforming divines (k) : which doth not a little confirm us in it , and delivers it from the imputation of novelty or singularity . but should we limit baptism to so narrow a scantling as our brethren strive for , we should therein go against the whole stream of divines , even of those that have been most eminent in their generations for learning , holiness , and studiousness of reformation ; yea , of those from whom our congregational leaders have professed to receive their principles , as was abovesaid . and we confess our selves conscious to so much of our own weakness , that unless we have very clear light , and undeniable argument constraining us , we are slow and fearful to go alone , or to go contrary to the concurrent judgement of our best divines , who ( if we may use our brethrens phrase ) have been stars of the first magnitude , incomparable champions for the truth , and have been raised up by christ to light the path of reformation in these later ages . now as for what is here alledged by our brethren as favouring their cause ; to say , that the catechumeni were not ( in the primitive times ) to be baptized , before they were fit for the lords supper . consider how it can consist with the above mentioned practice of antiquity , in not so much as teaching the catechumeni any thing about the lords supper , till after they were baptized . indeed , as the darkness and corruption of the times increased , baptism was not onely deferred till easter ( as is here said ) but till death , which is justly taxed as an abuse by cartwright in his catechism , pag. 182. and we suppose will not be approved by any . the arausiacan councils , 19 canon ; doth not concern the matter of baptism , as it is set down by the magdeburg centurists ( cent. 5. pag. 907. ) but however it be , it is of small moment . the over-long holding off of adult converts from baptism , that we sometimes reade of in the fourth and fifth centuries , was a manifest devi●tion from the apostolical practice . we finde also that in austin's time , and some ages after , they gave the lords supper to infants , yet then we suppose they would give both sacraments to some infants , whose parents they debarred from the lords supper . but if it was indeed a grievous errour to administer the lords supper to infants ( as is here rightly said by our brethren ) how then is baptism of no greater latitude , as to the subject thereof , then the lords supper ? yea , let any man shew a reason why baptism should be regularly extendible to infants , and not the lords supper , if the very sa●e qualifications be absolutely requisite to the one as to the other ; we say , absolutely requisite ▪ for no man doubts but that the better qualifications a person who receiveth baptism for himself , or for his children , is endued with , the better and the more comfortable it is . as for that of iuel , that baptism is as much to be reverenced , ●s the sacrament of the body and blood of christ. and that which follows , that former ages have been farre from looking upon the lords supper as being of a more sacred nature then the other ordinance of baptism . answ. to assert that scripture rules make the subject of baptism larger then the subject of the lords supper , this doth not detract from the reverence of baptism , nor render it an ordinance of a less sacred nature , as is here insinuated . the word and prayer are ordinances of a very sacred nature , and to be highly reverenced , and yet many may be admitted unto them , that may not be admitted unto sacraments . the sacredness of every ordinance , lies in the holy and religious application of it to its proper ends and uses by divine institution : but the proper ends and uses of one ordinance may , by divine institution , be such as may admit more to partake of it then of another , and yet the sacred nature thereof be no whit impaired (b) . but the preface addes : indeed of late there have been those who have made baptism of a farre larger extent then the lords supper : this hath been one practical difference between congregational-men and presbyterians . answ. whether it have been onely a late or novell notion , to make baptism larger then the lords supper , let the reader judge , when he hath considered the testimonies before alledged , with many more that might have been added thereunto : but we are so farre from looking upon a different latitude of these two sacraments to be a presbyterian principle , or anti-congregational as that we perswade our selves , the congregational way cannot long stand without it . for , if we deny this , and administer baptism to none but those whose parents do partake of the lords supper , and so are in full communion ▪ then we must either make full communion very large , which in the congregational-way , where brethren have so great an interest in church-transactions , will soon ruine all : or else make baptism , and consequently the compass of the visible church so strait , as will never stand before rational and scriptural men ; yea , we shall put multitudes out of the visible church , that are in a visible state of salvation , which is absurd : for to deny persons baptism for themselves or children , is to deny them to be within the compass of the visible church , seeing baptism ought to run parallel with church-membership . but how shall we deny them a room in the visible church , who were once in , and are by no rule to be put out , nay whom god ( as we may charitably hope ) taketh into heaven when they die , and that as a fruit of his covenant-grace ? which is the case of many of our children who are not yet come up to full communion . but so much for the second reason of our brethrens dissent . the third follows . 3. the parents of the children in question , are not members of any instituted church , according to gospel rules ● because they were never under any explicite and personal covenant . which is former proved ; because if they be members , then they would be a true ▪ church though all their parents were dead , and then they must have power of voting in church-affairs , which is denied to them by the synod . ans. .1 . it seems , by what is here said , that our children were never under any explicite and personal covenant , and that all that never were so , are not members of any instituted church according to gospel-rules . if this be so , then what is become of childrens membership , which the apologist before , in answer to objection second , took it as an injury to be charged with the denial of ? it seems our children neither are nor ever were members of any instituted church according to gospel-rules , because they were never under any explicite and personal covenant . is it come to this , that children are not members of any instituted church ? how then ? are they members of the catholick visible church ? or are they no members at all ? the former our brethren fancy not , as it seems by their anti-synodalia , pag. 19. the latter then remains to be the conclusion . neither will it salve it to say , they were members in minority , though they be not members now when they are adult ; for if all those that were never under any explicite and personal covenant , be no members of any instituted church , and if children were never under any explicite and personal covenant ( both which are here said ) then no children ( no not while in minority ) are members of any instituted church . for our parts we doubt not to affirm with dr. ames in his chapter de ecclesia institutâ , that children are members of an instituted church according to gospel-rules , and that they are under personal covenant , i. e. personally 〈◊〉 into covenant by god , according to his gospel-rules , though they have not performed the act of covenanting in their own persons . yea , under explicite covenant also , if the parents covenanting was explicite , deut. 29. so ames , they are partakers of the same covenant , and also of the same profession with their parents . though we take it for a principle granted by congregational men , with one consent , that implicite covenant preserves the being of a true church , and so of true church-membership . 2. the consequent of our assertion here urged as absurd , viz. [ that then , in ease all the pro-parents were dead , this second generation would be a true ▪ church of christ without any further act or covenanting ] is no absurdity but a manifest truth , i. e. taking that phrase [ further act , or covenanting ] to be meant of a particular formal act of explicite verbal covenanting . for otherwise , there is a further act , yea an act of ( implicite ) covenanting in their constant and publick profession of the religion of their fathers . but we say this second generation , continuing ( to use mr. cottons phrase in grounds of baptism , pag. 106. ) in a visible profession of the covenant , faith , and religion of their fathers , are a true church of christ , though they have not yet made any explicite personal expression of their engagement , as their fathers did ▪ even as the israelites that were numbred in the plains of moab were a true church , and under the covenant of god made with them in horeb , though their parents with whom it was first made in horeb , were all dead , and that before the solemn renewing of the covenant with them in the plains of moab , deut. 29. see deut. 5.2 , 3. with numb . 26.63 , 64 , 65. and so mr. hooker roundly and expresly affirms this which is here by our brethren denied , survey . part. 1. pag. 48. 3. as for our denial of the liberty of voting in church-affairs to the persons in question , till they be fitted for , and admitted to the lords supper , it stands good and rational without any prejudice to their being a true church in the case supposed . for there is no difficulty in it , to conceive that the case of a true church may be such ( by degeneracy , or loss of their best members , &c. ) as that they may be at present unfit to put forth or exercise a power of acting in church-affairs ( though it be radically in them ) till by the use of needful means they , or a select qualified number among them , be brought up unto a better and fitter capacity for it . and examples hereof are not farre to seek : let that way of reforming corrupt and degenerate churches be attended which is partly suggested in mr. allin's , and mr. shepard's preface , before their defence of the nine positions ( which preface beverly saith is instar omnium ) pag. 10 , 18 , 19 , 20. viz. that they be acknowledged true churches , and called by the powerful preaching of the word to humiliation , repentance , and agreement unto reformation : and then that such as do so agree , and submit to discipline , being owned to be of the church ; among them a select number who are found upon tryal able to examine themselves , and discern the lords body , and do walk according to christ , do solemnly renew or enter into covenant , and so electing officers , &c. enjoy full communion , and carry on all church-affairs in the congregational way . this shews that a church may be out of case for the present exercise of a proper church power , and may need much preparation , and reducement into order before it come up thereunto : and yet this doth not hinder it from being a true church , nor from having that power radically in it , and which in a way of due order it may come to the exercise of . have not the late times had experience of many congregations unto which it was fain to be a publick care to sent ministers , and they to preach to them many years before they found a number fit for full communion and management of church-affairs ? and yet they retained the being of true churches , and church-members all this while . see also mr. shepards late-printed letter about the church-membership of children , pag. 18. we might also ask whether such a member of reasoning as is here used would prove women to be no members of an instituted church ? because if all the men were dead , they could not then be a church , nor vote in church-affairs , chuse officers , &c. but that which is said may suffice : onely let us adde , that as the case that is supposed , viz. of all the parents ( or all that were in full communion ) being dead , at once , is rarely , if ever heard of ; so also the case we added , viz. for the whole body to be fallen into an unfitness for full communion , by corruption and degeneracy , would be ( we may hope ) as rare , if discipline and other ordinances be kept up , in their use and vigour . god will so bless his own ordinances , if duely attended , as that a considerable number shall from time to time have such grace given them as to be fit for full communion , and to carry on all the things of his house with competent strength , beauty , and edification . the fourth reason of our brethrens dissent , is this : it is not meer membership ( as the synod speaks ) but qualified membership that gives right unto baptism : for john 's baptism might not be applied unto the standing members of the visible church , till they were qualified with repentance . this ( say they ) seems to us to cut the sinews of the strongest arguments of the synod for englargeme●●●f baptism : for neither doth the scripture acknowledge any such meer membership as they speak of ; nor is it meer membership , but qualified membership that gives right unto this divine and sacred ordinance . answ. this term or distinction of [ meer membership ] is here , as also in the book to which this preface is prefixed , much exagitated , and harshly censured : but let the plain meaning of the synod therein be attended , and there will appear no cause for such exagitation . when the synod said , that persons are not therefore to be admitted to full communion meerly because they are and continue members ; and that meer membership ( or membership alone ) doth not suffice to render men subjects of the lords supper , propos. 4. p. 17 , 18. the meaning is , that full communion doth not belong to a member as such , or to a person meerly because he is a member , for then it would belong to all members , which it doth not . a person may be a member ( or in memberly relation ) and yet not bein full communion . now to say that meer membership ( in this sense ) the scripture acknowledgeth not , is as if one should say , that the scripture acknowledgeth not logical distinctions between things in their abstract and general nature , and the same things as clothed with various adjuncts and accessions ; which to say , were strangely to forget our selves . but when it is hence inferred and put upon us , that we set up a meer membership , and a sort of meer members in the church ; this is an unnecessary reflexion . as , if we should say that riches do not belong to men meerly as men , or meerly because they are men ; would it be a good inference to say , that we set up a sort of meer men ( or a meer humanity existing alone ) or that we distinguish men into meer men , and rich men ? there is no individual man in the world that is a meer man , i. e. that hath a naked humanity without adjuncts ; yet logick distinguisheth between humanity and its adjuncts , and between what belongeth to a man as such , and what accreweth to him other wayes , . so in the church ; membership , or memberly relation , is not existent in particular persons , without some communion flowing from it , nor yet without some qualifications ( unto charity ) under it , more or less , at least ordinarily ; though it may , and often does exist without those special and peculiar qualifications that fit men for the lords table . but surely we may well distinguish , especially between the memberly rel●tion and those special superadded qualifications , and between what belongs to persons in the one respect and in the other . for some priviledges in the church belong to persons by virtue of their memberly relation , or meerly because they are members ; they belong to a member as such : so does baptism , matth. 28.19 . the benefit of church-watch and discipline ( viz. according to natural capacity in regard of age , there is no other moral capacity but that of membership requisite to a subject thereof ) acts 20.28 . 1 cor. 5.12 and a share in the common legacies of the covenant , rom. 3.1 , 2. & 9.4 . acts 3.25 , 26. meer membership , or membership alone , gives right to these things . but there be other priviledges in the church that do not belong to members as such ( or to persons meerly because they are members ) but to members as clothed with such and such special qualifications . so the passover and other holy things of old , and so the lords supper now , 1 cor. 11.28 . now thus to distinguish , does not distribute members into meer members and others , but it distributes priviledges unto their proper subjects , and states the immediate right unto each sort of priviledges upon its proper basis. if we say that government of a family does not belong to persons meerly because they are members of the family ; do we thereby set up a sort of meer members thereof , that have no family-benefit , but onely a titulary relation to it , & c ? indeed such a saying would impor● , that in a family there are some that are governours , and some that are not governours of it ; as also that one may be a member of a family , and yet have no hand in the government thereof . so the distinction in hand implies , that in the church some are in full communion , and some are not ; and that one may be in memberly relation , and yet not be in full communion : and surely the truth of this cannot be doubted of . if children in minority be members ( as our brethren acknowledge them to be ) then there are some members that are not in ( nor yet fit for ) full communion . and for the adult , when a man is by admonition debarred from the lords table , and yet not excommunicated ; does he not continue a member ( yea , a personal member in our brethrens account ) and yet is not in full communion ? this demonstrates that membership and full communion are distinct and separable things . it is clear enough , that our non excommunicable children do continue members of the church ; yet many of them are not in full communi●● 〈◊〉 will our brethren say that they are fit for it . so then , neither the logical distinction between what belongs to persons simply as members ( or by their meer membership ) and what belongs to them as further endued with such and such special qualifications ; nor yet the assertion flowing from it , viz. [ that some may be and continue members , and yet not be in full communion ] can ju●tly be objected against . the sum is ; the persons in question have by virtue of their memberly relation ( or meerly by their membership ) a proper right unto the priviledges that are desired for them ; yet withall , they have some qualifications , and some communion ( and so are not meer members in contradistinction hereunto ) though they have not yet such full qualifications as to come into full communion . but thus much being s●id concerning that distinction which the synod useth , and the meaning of it : proceed we to the assertion here laid down by our brethren , and their proof thereof . their assertion is , that it is not meer membership , but qualified membership that gives right to baptism . remember here , t●at our ●●●pute properly is of membership de jure , or regular membership , ( i. e. wherein the rule appoints or allows one to be , or to be continued a member of the visible church ) not of membership de facto onely . now membership de jure , or regular membership , implies some qualification , as ▪ viz. that a person being a church-member is not under such gross , and incorrigible ignorance , heresie , scandal or apostacy , as renders him an immediate subject of excommunication ; hence meer membership is not so to be opposed to qualified membership , as if it were destitute of all qualifications . those whom the lord doth , and whom the church , acting regularly , may own , and continue as members , they are so farre qualified as that the rule hath accepted them into covenant , and doth not appoint us to put them out . now then , understanding meer membership f●r [ meerly this , that a man is regularly a member ] and qualified membership for [ superadded qualifications , over and above what is essentially requisite to regular membership ] the 〈◊〉 said ass●rtion is thus much ; it is not sufficient to give a person right to baptism , that he be regularly a member of the visible church , but he must have some further qualification then so , or else he hath not right thereunto . this assertion ( or to say , in this sense ) that it is not meer membership , but qualified membership that gives right to baptism , is indeed an antisynodalian assertion , and we doubt not to affirm it is antiscriptural . 1. it is antisynodalian , or directly opposite to the d●ctrine of the synod , and we will readily grant that if this could be proved , it cuts asunder the ●inews of the synods strongest arguments ; for this is that which the synod stand and build upon , that it is covenant-interest , or federal holiness , or visible church-membership ( which are but several expressions of the same thing ) that properly gives right to baptism , or , that baptism belongs to a church-member as su●h , and so to all church-members . and hence by the way , let it be minded that the synod in their fifth proposition have comprized both the right to baptism , and the manner of administration : the distinstion between which two , was often-over mentioned in the synod ; though they put both together in the proposition for better concurrence sake , and that they might at once familiarly set down what is to be attended in such a case . the [ right ] stands upon [ membership ] whereby the parent , and so the childe is regularly within the visible church ; so as no more qualification in the parent is simply necessary to give the childe right to baptism , but what is essentially requisite unto regular membership . as for other and further qualifications pointed to in the proposition ( as , giving account of their assent to the doctrine of faith , solemn owning of the covenant , &c. ) they properly belong to the manner of administration . yet these are not therefore needless things , nor may they be disregarded , or boldly slighted and refused by any ( because membership alone gives right ) for god hath made it one commandment of four , to provide for the manner of his worship , requiring that all his holy ordinances be attended in a solemn , humble , reverent and profitable manner : and it cannot be denyed to be meet and needful , that persons should both know and own the covenant-state they are in , and the state of subjection to christs government , which the covenant placeth them in , especially when they partake of such a fruit of the covenant as baptism for their children is : that they should do covenant-duties , when they come for covenant priviledges ; that they should both seek and attend the lords holy ordinance ( though it be their right never so much ) in humility and fear : and it being one branch of the covenant , that they give up their children to the lord , and do promise to take care for their christian education , it must needs be suitable that they be minded of it when they present them to baptism , and the more explicitely they do so promise , it is the better . hence all reformed churches do in their directories , and practices , require professions , and promises of parents , or those that present the childe to baptism , and appoint a solemn manner of administration , and stand upon it as a needful duty . though they unanimously own and grant , that the childe hath a full and clear right to baptism by its being born within the visible church . see english leiturgie of the administration of baptism . directory , pag. 31. late petition for peace , pag. 61 , &c. zepperi polit. ecces . pag 128. & pag. 147 — 150. alasco , pag. 121 — 137. ratio discipl . bohem. pag 43. hence also no man will doubt but that it is a comfortable and desireable thing , that the parent do address himself in the most solemn , serious , and spiritual manner to draw nig● to god upon such an occasion as the baptizing of a childe , by humbling himself before god for all neglects and breaches of his covenant , by taking hold of the incouraging promises of grace in christ , in reference unto the children of the covenant ; and by pouring out earnest prayer to god for his childe , and for an heart to do the duty of a christian parent toward his childe , as doth become him , &c. and such things as these , parents may and ought to be stirred up unto in the ministry of the word , as their duty . but still we must distinguish between what belongs to the manner of administration , or to the better and more comfortable attendance thereof , and between what is essentially requisite to give right and title to the ordinance before the church . this latter , meer membership ( or membership alone ) doth . a state of membership in the visible church , is that unto which the right of baptism is annexed (k) , as not onely the synod , but the scripture teacheth . and so , 2. the assertion before-mentioned ( viz. that it is not meer membership , but qualified membership that gives right to baptism : in the sense above given ) is also antiscriptural ; 1. because it directly overthroweth infant-baptism , which the scripture establisheth : for what have infants more then membership ( or federal holiness , or covenant-interest ) to give them right to baptism ? i. e. what have they more then this , that they are regularly ( by the rules of gods word , and his institution therein ) within the visible church ? if this will not suffice , but there must be some other qualifications besides , and superadded unto this , what shall become of them ? for our parts , we know no stronger argument for infants-baptism then that ; church members , or foederati , are to be baptized : the infants of the faithful are church-members , or foederati : ergo. but if the foresaid assertion hold , this argument fails , and falls short : for now church-membership , or to be in covenant , or federal holiness , will not serve the turn , but there must be more then this to give right to baptism . how the sinews of the strongest arguments of the synod for enlargement of baptism will fare , we know not ; but sure we are , that this cuts in sunder the sinews of the strongest arguments for infant-baptism , which must fall if this stand . but fall it never will ( through grace ) while the lords appointment in the covenant of abraham stands , viz. to have the initiating seal run parallel with the covenant , gen. 17. or christs commission , matth. 28.19 . viz. to baptize all disciples , or all members of the visible church under the new testament . let this assertion therefore fall , which makes the extent of the initiatory seal shorter then the covenant , and denies baptism to run parallel with church-membership under the gospel . hence , 2. it contradicts that which the harmony of scripture , and all orthodox divines acknowledge for a principle , viz. that the whole visible church ( i. e. now under the new testament ) ought to be baptized ; or that all church members are subjects of baptism : for , if not meer membership ( or membership alone ) but qualified membership gives right to baptism ; then not all members , but some onely , viz. those that be so and so qualified , are to be baptized . if baptism do not belong to meer membership , or to a member as such , then not to all members : as à quatenus ad omne , so à non quatenus ad non omne valet consequentiae . this denies not onely in the fifth , but the first proposition of the late synod ( which yet the antisynodalia , pag. 17. seem to consent unto . ) but let the arguments that are given from scripture to confirm that first proposition , be duely weighed , and they will be found to be of greater weight then to be shaken by this assertion . now for the proof of this assertion ; viz. because john 's baptism , which was christian baptism , might not be applied to some who were standing members of the visible church , because they were not qualified with repentance , luke 3.8 . & 7.30 . therefore christian baptism is not to be applied unto such as stand members in the visible church , if they be not qualified with fruits of repentance . answ. let this be answered with reference to infant-baptism , which lies upon our brethren to do , as well as on us , seeing they above declared antipoedobaptism to be a sinful opinion , and do profess to hold and maintain the baptizing of infants : though indeed the reader could not gather so much from these words [ christian baptism is not to be applied unto such 〈◊〉 stand members in the visible church , if they be not qualified with fruits of repentance . ] this seems directly to gainsay infant-baptism ; for infants do indeed stand members of the visible church , but how do they or can they shew that they are qualified with fruits of repentance ? for it seems that neither is repentance it self sufficient without [ fruits ] of repentance . but we are to suppose our brethren do not intend to oppose infant-baptism , and therefore that their meaning is not to require these fruits of repentance ( or qualifications superadded to membership ) of the children or person● to be baptized , but of their parents ; though it be not so expressed . but , let this argument from iohn's requiring of qualifications over and above membership , be answered , with reference to infant-baptism , and that will answer it as to the case in hand . we remember in debates between the elders and an antipoed●baptist many years since , this very argument was urged by him , and the same answer that was given then , we shall give here ; viz. 1. that meerly to be a member of the old-testament iewish church , or simply to be in covenant ( or confederate ) under the old-testament manner of administration , sufficeth not to baptism : but to be in the church and covenant of the new-testament , to be a member of a gospel church , stated and setled under the gospel manner of administration , this is that which right to baptism stands upon , and here membership alone sufficeth thereunto . when we say , that members of the visible church , confederates &c. are to be baptized , we must needs be understood to speak of the visible church ( or of covenant-interest ) under the new testament , and gospel-administration , which is founded upon christ already come . and it were most absurd and irrational to understand us otherwise ; we having now no other church or covenant to speak of , but that . old testament-church-membership gave right to circumcision ; new-testament church-membership gives right to baptism . but at the transition from old to new , or at the first setting up of the gospel-administration ( o● kingdome of heaven , as 't is called ) and of baptism , the entring seal thereof in iohn baptists's and christ's time , well might more be required then bare membership in the iewish church ( which was then also under great corruption , and degeneracy ) hence all the members of the church of the iews were not baptized , but onely those that in some degree embraced the new and reformed administration : in order to which , a special repentance was then necessary , mat. 3.2 . but to inferre from hence , a necessity of qualifications superadded unto membership in stated christian or gospel-churches ▪ in order to baptism-right , will not hold ; there is a wide difference between the case of ecclesia christiana constituenda , and constituta . in those first beginnings of the gospel , even pious persons , and men fearing god , such as the eunuch , and cornelius , must have further instruction , and preparation , before they could be baptized : may a man thence inferre , that now in the christian church constituted , a christian or church-member that feareth god , is not baptizable without further qualifications ? 2. much of what was required by iohn baptist of the members of the iewish church before he baptized them , may be referred to the manner of administration , and was upon that account attended in a case so circumstanced , as that was ; for that by reason of their church-state ( though so degenerate as they were ) they were in a farre other and neerer capacity then non-members ; and that thereby they had a right to the ministrations of iohn and christ among them , is plain from many scriptures , luk. 1.16 . iohn 1.11 . mat. 10.6 . & 15.24 , 26. rom. 15.8 . but those that were then to be baptized ( at that first institution of baptism , and beginning of the gospel-administration ) being adult persons , and they defiled with scandal , and degeneracy , yea having much lost the truth of doctrine in many poinst ▪ hence they could not be brought to entertain that beginning of the gospel ( as 't is called , mark 1.1 , 2. ) and baptism the sign and seal thereof , without previous convictions , and penitential preparations by the powerful ministry of the baptist. but it doth not appear that more was pre-required of them , then what was necessary to an humble submitting to the ordinance , and to that new and reforming administration then on foot , which was betokened and sealed thereby . and he that shall consider the multitudes that were baptized by iohn . mat. 3.5 , 6. luk. 3.7 , 21. in the short time of his ministry , and in those glimmerings of gospel-light that they then had , together with the great weakness , and rawness of some that he baptized , iohn 3.25 , 26. act. 19.1 — 5. will not think that the persons baptized by iohn did excell those whom the synod describeth in their fifth proposition , of which our brethren were so sensible in their anti-synodalia , pag. 18. that there they chose rather to wave iohns practice , and to seek for stricter presidents , though here they plead , ( and that rightly and truely ) that iohn's baptism was christian baptism , and holds forth a rule unto us . as for that confession of sins in mat. 3.6 . when our children do in their assens to the doctrine of faith , and consent to the covenant , acknowledge their sin , and misery by nature , their perishing condition without christ , &c. are willing to submit to instruction , and government , for the reformation of their sins ( as those that were baptized by iohn shewed their penitential frame by that , viz. a submission to his instructions and counsels , luk. 3.10 — 14. ) they cannot be denyed to have somewhat of that confession of sin . so chemnit . on the place , they acknowledged themselves to be sinners , and both in words , and by their action in desiring to be baptized , they professed their fear of the wrath of god , and desire to escape it . but if any do stand guilty of open scandals , we know not why they should not make particular confession of their sin therein , when they come to present themselves before god , and desire baptism for their children , if they have not done it before ( so saith the same chemnitius in the same place of them ; moreover , such as stood guilty of more grievous falls , did also confess them in particular . ) to be sure , they should by the discipline of the church be brought to that , whether they had children to be baptized or no , but then may be a fitting season for it . thus there may be cause and call for a special repentance in special cases ( when persons have so carried it , as to shake their standing in the visible church ) and although the rule owns the childe to be a member of the church , and so a subject of baptism , while it allows the parent to be a member not cut off ; yet it is a covenant-duty of the parent to confess his sin in such a case : and so shall baptism be administred with greater honour to god , and comfort to all that are concerned . but otherwise , while the parent that was born in the church , regularly continues in it , without scandal , he is ecclesiastically accounted to have the being of repentance , and so to have the thing which iohn required of them , though not the same modus of manifestation , and discovery thereof . now follows the fifth reason of our brethrens dissent , which is this ; that which will not make a man capable of receiving baptism himself , in case he were unbaptized , doth not make him capable of transmitting right of baptism unto his childe : but all that the synod hath said will not give a man right to baptism himself in case he were unbaptized ; therefore all that the synod hath said is not enough to make a man capable of transmitting right of baptism unto his childe . whereunto is added somewhat out of bucer , parker and mr. cotton , as concurring with the judgement of our brethren . ans. taking [ capable of receiving baptism himself , or right to baptism himself ] for a state of baptism-right , or capacity , we may grant the major , but the minor in manifestly to be denied . but taking it for a frame of actual fitness to receive baptism , we cannot say that we may grant the minor , but surely the major will not hold . it is true , that that which doth not put a man into a state of right to baptism for himself in case he were unbaptized ( i. e. into a state of church-membership ) will not enable him to give baptism-right to his childe . if the parent be not a member , or not in a state of covenant interest , none of us plead for the childes baptism . and if he be a 〈◊〉 surely he is in the state of a subject of baptism , or in a state of right to it ( as all the members of the visible church are ) whatever may de facto hinder it . but it is possible for an adult person , being in the state of a member , and so of right to baptism , to have something fall in which may hinder the actual application of baptism to himself ( in case he were unbaptized ) or his actual fitness for it : and yet the same thing may not hinder a person already baptized , and standing in a covenant-state , from conveying baptism-right to his childe . the reason is , because the right of the childe depends upon the state of the parent ( that he be in a state of membership : for if so , then divine institution carrieth or transmitteth membership , and so baptism-right to the childe ) but the parents regular partaking of this or that ordinance for himself , depends much upon his own actual fitness for it . as suppose an unbaptized adult person admitted into the church , who before he is baptized falls into some great offence ( though such a case could hardly fall out , if baptism were administred according to the rule , and apostolical practice , i. e. immediately upon first admission , matth. 28.19 . acts 16.33 . much more is it an harsh and strange supposition for a parent that ought to have been , and was baptized in his infancy , to be supposed to be yet unbaptized ▪ but allowing the supposition , that a person 〈◊〉 in adult age falls into offence before he is baptized ) he may be called to give satisfaction for it , and to shew himself in a more serious and penitent frame before himself receive baptism ; but suppose he die before he do that , and leave children behinde him , shall not they be baptized ? in like manner , if a person already baptized , yea or already in full communion , should fall into offence , you would say that would put a stop to his own baptism , in case ( upon an impossible supposition ) he were yet unbaptized ; but what rule or reason is there for it , to make a particular offence in the parent , to cut o● the childes right to baptism , when as the parent is ( notwithstanding that offence ) still a member , and within the church , and doth not shew any such incorrigibleness , as that 〈◊〉 is by rule to be put out ? when as the offence doth not cut off the parents membership , is there any reason it should cut off the membership of the childe ? and if it cut not of the childes membership , it doth not cut off his right to baptism ▪ whatever may be said for requiring the parent to confess his sin before his childes baptism , in reference to the more expedient and comfortable manner of administration ( therein we oppose not ) yet where doth the scripture allows us to disannull the childes right to baptism upon a particular offence in the parent , especially when it is not such as doth touch upon the essentials of christianity , and notwithstanding which , the parent is regularly and orderly continued a member of the church ? it remains therefore that there may be obstructions to a parents receiving baptism for himself , in case he were unbaptized , which do not incapacitate a baptized parent to transmit ( if we may attribute transmitting to a parent , which is properly the act of gods institution and covenant ) right of baptism unto his childe . but for the minor or assumption of the argument in hand , it will not hold in either of the senses of the proposition above given . for , 1. we will readily grant , that if the parent be not in a state of baptism-right himself , i. e. in a state of membership , he cannot convey baptism-right to his childe ; but how manifest is it , that that which the synod hath said in their fifth proposition , doth render the persons there described in a state of right to baptism for themselves , in case they were unbaptized , viz. in a state of membership in the visible church ; for the proposition speaks of church-members , such as were admitted members in minority , and do orderly and regularly so continue : and that a state of membership is a state of baptism-right , or that all church-members are in the state of subjects of baptism , is an evident truth that cannot be denied by any that grant the synods first proposition ; for which there is sun-light in scripture , and never was orthodox divine heard of that questioned it . hence according to that ruled case here mentioned , the parents in question having themselves a title to baptism , may intitle others ; they have not onely a title to it , but regular and actual possession of it , for they are baptized , and in case they were yet unbaptized , they would , being church-members , have a title of right unto it ( they would stand possessed of an interest in a title to it , as mr. hooker in the place here alledged speaks ) whatever might de facto hinder their enjoyment of it . and as à non habente potestatem , acts are invalid ; so ab habente potestatem they are valid and good : but god hath full power to give forth what grants he pleaseth , and he hath in the order of his covenant in the visible church , granted a membership , and so baptism-right unto children born of parents that are members , and so the parent that stands member of the church , hath as an instrument under god , and from his grant , power to 〈◊〉 such a right unto his childe . children are within the covenant , because they come from parents within the covenant , in which they were included , and so received also by god , saith mr. hooker in the place that is here cited . survey , part . 3. pag. 18. 2. it is not to be yielded , that the parents described by the synod in their fifth proposition , would not have right to baptism themselv●s in case they were unbaptized , though you take [ right to baptism ] for actual and immediate fitness for the same in fero ecclesia . surely he will have an hard talk , who shall undertake out of scripture , or orthodox divines , to shew , that adult persons understanding and believing the doctrine of faith , and publickly professing the same , not scandalous in life , and solemnly taking h●ld of the covenant , wherein they give up themselves and theirs to the lord in his church , and subject themselves to christs government therein ; that these ( we say ) may be denied or debarred from church-membership or baptism upon their desire thereof . it is not easie to believe , that the multitudes baptized by iohn baptist and by christ ( i. e. by his disciples at his order ) in the time of their ministry ; or the many thousands of the iews that were counted believers , and baptized after christs ascension ( too much addicted unto judaism , acts 21.20 . & 15.1 . ) or the numbers baptized by philip in samaria , and by the apostles in other places , upon a short time of instruction , and when they were moved and taken 〈…〉 , and of whom many proved corrupt and degenerate afterward ( as the epistles to the galatians , corinthians , and other places sh●w ) that they did ( we say ) ( at least many of them ) excell the persons described in the synods fifth proposition , taking all things together : or that they had more to render them visible believers upon a just account then those have . but it is a strange reason that is here rendred by our brethren , why that which is set down by the synod would not render a person a subject of baptism , viz. because [ a man may be an unbelie●er , and yet c●me up to all that the synod hath said in their fifth proposition ] we suppose 〈◊〉 magus , a●●ni● and sapphira , and many others , not onely might be , but were unbelievers , and yet were regularly baptized . we marvel what outward signs and professions of faith which the church may proceed upon , can be given , but a man [ may ●e ] an unbeliever , and yet come up unto them ? if it be said , that a man may come up to all that the synod hath said , and yet ●e ecclesiastically judged a visible unbeliever , shew us any ground for such a judgement . touching the opinion of bucer & parker , here cited out of park . de polit. ●cel . lib. 3. p. 181 , 182. 1. in the first passage the word [ apparent . ] is here added , the words in parker are onely [ signes of regeneration ] and the other passage in pag. 182. runs thus ; a confession of faith , though publick and solemn , may not be received in churches , quando nulla necessaria fidei signs apparent , when as no necessary signs of faith do appear : where by necessary signs of faith , are not meane such signs as have a necessary connexion with faith , or do necessarily ( i. e. infallibly , and certainly ) argue that there is ▪ truth of saving faith in the heart ; such signs men cannot see or judge of , but when there is such an appearance , as that if that be in reality which doth appear to be ( on which seems to be in outward appearance ) then there is true faith ; this is that appearance of necessary signes of faith which he means ; hence within seven lines of the place cited , the same thing is thus expressed ; qua●diu nullo probabili argumento , &c. when as we are by no probable argument given to believe that it is in the heart . 2. the thing there specially blamed by bucer and parker , is , when a bare verbal profession is accepted , though accompanied with a scandalous life ; and when there is not regard had to the conversation , as well as to the oral confession , as the discourse in the place cited at large shews . 3. but that which we would chiefly insist on for answer , is , that bucer and parker do there plainly speak of such a confirmation ( or owning men as confirmed members ) as doth import their admission to the lords table , or into full communion ( as we phrase it ) and hence do blame the prelatical way for so much slightness therein : so mr. cotton cites this place of bucer (a) . and so parker a little before this his citation of bucer complains , that although by the english order ( if i mistake not , saith he ) he that is confirmed , is capable of the lords supper ; yet notwithstanding ▪ such are confirmed , if they can but say the catec●ism , who cannot examine themselues , nor rightly prepare themselues for the table of the lord. now it is well known , that in our admissions unto full communion , we are not behind in any thing that bucer and parker do require , but do expect positive comfortable signes of regeneration already wrought , and some experienced fruits thereof ; whereby persons may be in some measure fit for that special and comfortable exercise of grace that is required in preparation for , and participation of the lords table . but suppose that persons born in the church , and baptized , be not yet come up to this , is there any word to be found in bucer or parker , or in any judicious orthodox divine , that they lose their membership , and are put out of the church meerly because they are not come up to this , when as no censurable wickedness is found in them ? and while the parent stands in the church , his infant-childe is in the church also , and therefore baptizable . yet withal we say , with the consent of judicious divines , that while persons have a regular standing in the church , they are in ecclesiastical account to be looked upon as having the being of regeneration , or as fidele● , vocati , and so regenerati , i. e. by reason of their federal holiness , though not by part●cular , present , evident signs of a work of grace already wrought in them : in this case we take their covenant-estate , christian education , hopeful carriage , general profession , &c. for signs of regeneration in this sense , i. e. such as shew that there may be grace , there is nothing inconsistent with grace , and none knows but ● seed of grace ( which in the first infusion , and beginnings of it , is marvellous secret and small ) may lye at bottom : and hence the church is to carry toward them as heires of grace . but it is a further thing for grace to appear above-ground in such exercise and sensible signs , evidences and experiences , as may fit them for comfortable communion w●th christ in the supper . but fourthly , if the judgement of bucer and parker may be taken in this controversie , it will 〈…〉 : for , notwithstanding all that is here , or can be cited of theirs , it is evident enough that famous martin bucer , and renowned parker , ( as the preface styleth them , and that deservedly ) do fully concurre with the synod in extending baptism to such as the synod describes , or to more then so . vid. bucer de regno christi , lib. 1. cap. 2. pag. 14. and in his commentary upon iohn , in an excellent discourse concerning infant baptism , among many other useful passages , he hath these following . sunt quidem sa●e inter pueros reprobi , &c. there are indeed often among children some that be reprobates , but while that does not appear to us , we ought nevertheless to reckon them among the people of god ; and we shall time enough cast them out , when by their evil fruits they shall openly shew us what they are : bucer in joh. fol. 43. and in another place , quantum equidem assequi possum , &c. as far as i can gather ( saith he ) the anabaptist's onely reason why they dislike infant baptism , is , because they fancy to themselves that the church would be more pure , if we baptized none but the adult , and such as hold forth evidences of the spirit : and so they think but a few would have place in churches . but by this means doubtless it would come to pass , that many of christs sheep would be neglected as goats : neither would all parents be so careful as they think , in educating their children unto piety . and yet this humane thought ( which savours of too much esteem of our own works ) doth so possess them , that they bring all to this , and turn off all that can be said , and hereby they run themselves into very great errours . i called it an humane thought , for no scripture doth command such a curious circumspection , lest any goats should be received into the church . the apostles often baptized persons with whom they had scarce had an hours speech concerning christ ; because , according to the parable of the gospel , they would bring in all they met with to the marriage ( mat. 22.10 . ) for by baptism they only took them into the school of piety , and trained-hand of christians ; and they were wont then to cast them out again , when it was evidently enough perceived that to labour in teaching them was in vain . ibid. fol. 53. as for parker , his speaking mainly against the admitting or tolerating of [ manifestarii peccatores ] the notoriously wicked , and pleading to have them debarred from the lords table , or cast out by the use of discipline (a) : his frequent approbation of the principles of the reformed churches (b) ; and in special his approving of their admitting members ( not before of their body ) upon such like qualifications as are contained in the synods fifth proposition (c) . also his earnest and peremptory rejecting the opinions and principles of the anabaptists and separatists , and declaring himself and the non-conformists , whose cause he acted , to be farre from them (d) . these and such like do clearly shew that worthy man to be no opponent of such an extent of baptism as is contained in the conclusions of the synod . but here our brethren will needs take notice , that the judgment of that worthy and for ever famous mr. cotton was as theirs is , because he hath these words , ( in holiness of church-members , pag. 93 ) i conceive ( under favour ) more positive fruits of regeneration are required in the church-members of the new testament then of the old. ans. the reader will take notice of what hath been before said , and cited to shew mr. cottons judgement in the points controverted between our brethren and the synod , and will easily thereby judge whether mr. cottons judgement was as theirs is : but it is strange they should make such a collection from what is here set down . mr. cotton might say those words that are here expressed , and yet his judgement be farre enough from being as theirs is in any of the points that are controverted : for we shall not gainsay this conception of mr. cottons [ that more positive fruits of regeneration are required in the church members of the new testament , then of the old ] but concur with it in two respects , or for two causes : 1. because the light now is greater and clearer then it was then , and where more is given , more is required , luke 12.48 . 2. because the discipline appointed under the old testament was mostly ceremonial ( ames medul . lib. 1. c. 38. thes. 41. ) and whether excommunication for moral evils , was then used , at least out of the national church , is by some doubted : as also whether persons were debarred from the holy things simply for moral evils , if they were ceremonially clean ; as mr. cotton in the place here alledged saith , it is true , that it is a question whether sins very scandalous did keep men ceremonially clean from the temple and sacrifices : but under the new testament we have a plain and undoubted rule , for the censure of excommunication for moral evils persisted in : hence persons might haply run further into moral evils ( and so further off from the fruits of regeneration ) then , and yet not be put out of the church ( yea haply not be debarred from the holy things ) then they can do now . but what is all this to the matter in hand ? for still it is not secret irregeneration , nor the bare want of such and such positive fruits of regeneration , without positive and palpable ●ruits of irregeneration , that will ( according to any rule god hath given us ) put any man out of the church , when he is once in . nay , mr. cotton in the very place here cited , expresly saith , that irregeneration alone will not keep a man out : his words are these [ neither amongst us doth irregeneration alone keep any from church-fellowship with us : not irregeneration alone ( i say ) unles it be accompanied with such fruits as are openly scandalous , and do convincingly manifest irregeneration . ] moreover , still the parallel between the church of the old and of the new testament ; stands and holds in this , that when a person is once by gods appointment taken into the visible church ( whether in adult age or in infancy , it comes all to one for that ) he continues in it , and doth not lose his membership , till by some rule or appointment of god in his word he be cut off or cast out . what the particular rules and wayes of cutting off were in the old testament , we need not here dispute , but to be sure the plain rule in the new testament for the cutting off of particular persons , is by the censure of excommunication for moral evils . but while we grant that in some respects more positive fruits in regard of degree might be required in the old testament , let none so understand it , as if regeneration was not required as all unto the constitution and continuation of the visible church in the old testament , but that a meer carnal succession was then allowed of without regard to regeneration . for they sto●d by faith , and were br●ken off by vnbelief as well as we , rom. 11. circumcision was a seal of the righte●usness of faith , as well as baptism . faith and repentance do not now more constitute the covenant of god , then it did in the time of abraham , who was the father of the faithful , saith dr. ames (b) . yea , our brethren do in their antisynodalia , pag. 17. expresly say , that the covenant made with abraham , and the circumcision of his seed , was appointed upon the same terms that baptism was , i. e. that he should walk with god by faith and obedience . and it is observeable , that no where is regeneration , and the fruits thereof , required of gods covenant people in stricter and fuller terms then in the old testament , gen. 17.1 . deut. 10.12 . & 26.16 , 17. 1 kings 8.23 . psal. 103.17 , 18. isa. 56.4 , 6. and yet the lord , who is the best interpreter of his own rules , continued them in the church , and accounted them among the number of his holy people , till palpall● , and incorrigible fruits of irregeneration were found with them : and so he doth now . in the sixth place : the application ( saith the preface ) of the seal of baptism unto those who are not true believers ( we mean visibly , for de occultis non judicat ecclesia ) is a profanation thereof , and as dreadful a sin as if a man should administer the lords supper unto unworthy receivers — we marvel that any should think that the blood of christ is not as mu●h profaned and vilified by undue administration of baptism , as by undue administration of the lords supper . ans it will be hard for the redder to gather out of all that is here said , a reason of dissent from the synod : for we readily grant and say , that baptism is not to be applied to any but visible believers ( taking visible believers ▪ as a term equivalent to [ federally holy ] as the term believer or faithful is sometimes in scripture so taken , isa● . 1.21 . 2 cor. 6.15 . and often in authors ) but that the persons in question , both parents and children , are visible believers , is also by the synod asserted and proved ; and here is nothing said to disprove it . but when as our brethren here say , that the application of the seal of baptism unto those who are not visibly true believers , is a profanation thereof ( in which , being rightly explained , we gainsay them not ) and yet in their 〈◊〉 , pag. 20. do hold forth , that infants neither have nor can have faith ; it will lye upon them to shew how they apply the seal of baptism to infants without a profanation thereof . it is pity that so many passages are dropt here and there , that do ( though we hope not in their intention ) clas● with the baptizing of i●fants . here is also exprest a marvel , that any should think , &c. but we may answer with a m●rvel that any should speak as if any of us did think that the blood of christ is not profaned by undue administration of baptism , as well as by undue administration of the lords supper : whether as much or no in point of degree , we will not trouble our selves to dispute ; though we suppose the degree of sinful , pollution or profanation of the lords name in any ordinance , will be intended by the degree of special communion that we have with christ in that ordinance , and by the danger that such pollution infers to the whole church , as well as to the particular partaker , which will hardly be denied to be more in the lords supper then in baptism . but whether the profanation be as great or no , to be sure it is very great ▪ and so great as that every pious conscientious person should fear to have any hand in the undue administration of baptism . but where is there any thing to shew that the administration of baptism , pointed to by the synod , is undue ? or that it is an undue administration of b●ptism to extend it further then the lords supper ? or to administer baptism to some unto whom we do not administer the lords supper ? if the rule and institution concerning these two sacraments do extend the one further then the other , as it plainly doth , when it appoints baptism to all disciples , or to run parallel with federal holiness , mat. 28.19 . but the lords supper onely to self-examining disciples , 1 cor. 11.28 . then the one may be extended further then the other , and yet the administration of the one no more undue , or irregular , and polluting then the administration of the other . surely he that holds , that baptism may , and the lords supper may not be administred unto infants ( as we suppose our brethren do ) he grants that baptism may be extended further then the lords supper , without any such sacrilegio●● impiety , dreadful prof●rtation or prostitution of the blood of christ , as is here ( harshly enough ) exprest . neither did judicious calvin ( part of whose zealous expression against the promiscuous administration of the lords supper , is here cited in the preface ) ever imagine or conceive that it was any such profanation to extend baptism further then the lords supper , yea and further then the synod doth , when as he set down that answer in his catec●ism that is above alledged , and practised accordingly . it is well known the synod doth not ple●d for that largeness in either of the sacraments that calvin allowed : but to extend the one further then the other , was never accounted sacrilegious impiety in orthodox divinity . it is here added ; that austin pleads for strictness in the administration of baptism , and tertullian be●ore him . but did either of them ple●d for greater strictness then the synod doth ? unless where tertullian erroneously and weakly pleads for the delaying of baptism , which is noted (c) for one of his navi . certainly men will say when they look upon what is published by the synod , and their wary qualifying of the fifth proposition ( about which the controversy is ) that they were for much strictness in the administration of baptism , and many will think us too strict . we doubt not but we may safely say , that no man can shew any thing out of austin that will speak him to be against the baptizing of such as the synod pleadeth for : yea , he requireth not more of adult converts from heathenism , for their own baptism , then is in the parents who are described by the synod . that book of his de fide & operibus , is against the baptizing of notorious scandalous livers , whom he would not have baptized ( though seemingly turned from heathenism ) till they seriously promised reformation . but that austin ( in stead of being for more strictness ) holdeth for a larger extent of baptism then the synod doth , might easily be evinced (d) . how strange is it to see their authority still alledged against us , who are not onely fully with us in this matter , but go further then we ! the seventh reason of our brethrens dissent , is this ; it hath in it a natural tendency to the ●ardning of unregenerate creatures , in their sinful natural condition , when life is not onely promised , but sealed to them by the precious blood of iesus christ. baptism is a seal of the whole co●enant of grace , (e) as well as the lords supper and therefore those that are not interested in this covenant by faith , ought not to have the seal thereof applyed to them . ans. 1. the lords truth and grace , however it may be abused by the corruption of mans perverse and ●inful nature , hath not in it self any natural tendency to harden any , but the contrary . and how can the doctrine in hand have any such natural tendency ? when as men are told over and over , that onely outward advantages and dispensations are sealed to them in baptism more absolutely ( rom. 3.1 , 2. ● 9.4 . ) but the saving benefits of the covenant ( or life eternal ) conditionally ( see mr. shepards late printed letter , pag. 3 — 6. ) so that if they fail of the condition ( viz. eff●ctual and unfeigned faith ) they miss of salvation , notwithstanding their baptism , and external covenant-estate : and hence , that there is no certa●n , but onely a probable connexion between federal holyness ( as applied to particular persons ) and salvation ; that thousands are in the vi●●ble church that shall never see heaven ; that outward priviledges are not to be rested in , but improved●s ●s helps and encouragements to the obtaining of internal and special grace : that the chur●h is to accept of probable signes , but no man for 〈◊〉 is to rest without certain s●gns of grace : hence the indefinite promise , and other general indefinite tokens of a good estate , 〈◊〉 such as decypher that sort of persons that are gracious , and many of whom are so ▪ though many are not , ( ●s ch●ldren of the covenant , professors of the faith &c. ) these are grounds for the church to proceed upon in the dispensation of outward 〈◊〉 , especi●lly that of baptism , that is annexed to the first being of grace ; but they are not grounds for any to rest o● acquie●ce in , as to the salvation of their own soules . in sum , while we keep a due distinction between the outw●rd and inward dispensation of the covenant , and between the respective cond●ti●ns and gr●unds of each , there is no tendency unto hardning therein : but inde●d ▪ 〈…〉 , and do tye visible church-interest unto such conditions and qualifications , as are reputed enough to salvation , this may tend to harden men , and to make them conceit , that if once they be got into the church , they are sure of heaven , when 〈◊〉 it may be they are far from it . 2. the scriptures give us a contrary assertion to this of our brethren here ; for they tell us , that to deny the children of the church , to have any part in the lord , hath a strong tendency in it , to make them cease from fearing the lord , or to harden their hearts from his fear , iosh. 22.24 , 25 , 27. and that on the other hand , the incouragements and awful obligations of covenant-interest do greatly tend to soft●● and break the heart , and to draw it home unto god. hence the lord often begins with this , that he is their god ( viz. in outward covenant ) and they his people , when he would most powerfully win and draw them to faith and obedience , psal. 81.8 , 10. levit. 19.3 , 4. deut. 14.1 , 2. hosea 14.1 . act. 2.38 , 39. and the experiences of many can through grace witness unto this , of what use the consideration of the lords preventing grace in his sealed covenant , and their engagement to him thereby hath been in the day of their turning unto god , so ier. 31.18 . & 3.22 . gal. 1.15 . 3. there is a natural tendency in mans corrupt heart ( not in this , or any other truth or ordinance of god ) that leads him to turn grace into wantonness , and to abuse outward priviledges and ordinances , unto a self-hardning security and carnal confidence , ier. 7.4 . mat. 3.9 . rom. 2.17 . phil. 3.4 , 5 , 6 , 7. but is this any argument against the lord's or the churches giving men a portion in his temple and ordinances , because they are prone so to abuse them ? confidence in outward visible qualifications for full communion , is but a vain and carnal thing ; yet men are prone enough to it , and had need by the ministry be taken off from it . but shall we therefore deny or scruple their admission thereunto ? 4. if one should bring such an argument as this against the baptizing of infants , viz. that it will harden them , and bolster them up in their sinful natural condition ; we suppose it would be counted a poor argument , and of no validity ; and yet it holds as well against the baptizing of any infants , as of these in question . if it be said , that the baptizing of these in question hardens the parent ? ans. not at all ( in the way we go ) any more with reference to his childes baptism , then in reference to his own baptism which he received in infancy . for it doth not necessarily affirm that he hath any more then federal holiness , and that he had , when he was an infant , on that ground was he baptized then , and on the same ground is his childe baptized now . if he have any more , he may have the more comfort in it ; but simply to have his childe baptized , on the grounds we go upon , affirms no more but this , because we ground all upon federal holiness , or membership in the visible church . it is true , that baptism is a seal of the whole covenant of grace , as well as the lords supper : but it is as true , 1. that it is a seal of the covenant of grace , as dispensed in the visible church , or it is a seal of the covenant of grace , as clothed with the external dispensation or administration thereof , and so it doth nextly and immediately seal the external dispensation , or the promises and priviledges that belong thereto ( which are a part of the whole covenant of grace ) and then it seals the inward and saving benefits of the covenant as included in that dispensation , and upon the conditions therein propounded . baptism seals the whole covenant , and whole dispensation thereof , i. e. 1. the dispensation of it outwardly , to all that have an external standing in the church . 2. the dispensation and communication of it inwardly , effectually and savingly to all that truely do believe . 2. that baptism is a seal of entrance into the covenant thus considered . it seals the whole covenant , but by way of initiation ; so dr. ames in the place that is here quoted , medul . lib. 1. cap. 40. thes. 5 , 6. baptism is the sacrament of initiation , or regeneration , for although it do at once seal the whole covenant of grace to the faithful , yet by a singular appropriation it represents and confirms our very ingrafting into christ , rom. 6.3 , 5. 1 cor. 12.13 . and thesis 10. those benefits are sealed by way of initiation , in baptism : and from thence the judicious doctor makes that inference that suits and clears the matter in hand , thes. 11. hence baptism ought to be administred to all those , unto whom the covenant of grace belongs , because it is the first seal of the covenant now first entred into . baptism is the seal of entrance into covenant , sealing up unto the party baptized , all the good of the covenant to be in season communicated and enjoyed , from step to step , through the whole progress of christianity , from this first beginning thereof , according to the tenour and order of the covenant . hence it belongs to all that are within the covenant , or that have but a first entrance thereinto , children as well as others , though they have not yet such faith and growth , as imports that progress in the covena●t , and fruition of the comfort and ●ruits thereof that is sealed up in the lords supper . we readily grant , and say [ that ●●ne ought to have the seal of baptism applied in th●● , 〈◊〉 those that are interested in the covenant ] and that by faith , unless you can shew us any other way of interest in the covenant , but by faith. but withall , we aff●●m and prove , that the children in question have interest in the covenant , according to the known tenour thereof , gen. 17.7 . and therefore that the seal of baptism is to be applied to them . in all this therefore we see no sufficient ground or reason to necessitate a dissent from the synod . our brethren have one thing more yet to adde ; viz. that there is danger of great corruption and pollution creeping into the churches , by the enlargement of the subject of baptism . answ. 1. and is there no danger of corruption by over-straitning the subject of baptism ? certainly it is a corruption to take from the rule , as well as to adde to it ; and a corruption that our weakness is in danger of . and it is a dangerous thing to be guilty of breaking gods covenant , by not applying the initiating seal unto those it is appointed for , even unto all that are in covenant , gen. 17.9 , 10 , 14. moses found danger in it , exod. 4.24 . is there no danger of putting those : out of the visible church , whom christ would have kept in ? and depriving them of those church advantages ( rom. 3.1 , 2. ) that might help them toward heaven ? even christs own disciples may be in danger of incurring his displeasure , by keeping poor little one● away from him , mark 10.13 , 14. to go pluck up all the tares was a ●ealous motion , and had a good intention , but the housholder concludes , there 's danger in it of plucking up the wheat also . 2. if the enlargement be beyond the bounds of the rule , it will bring in corruption , else not ; our work is therefore to study the rule and keep close to that , as the onely true way to the churches purity and glory . to go aside from that to the right hand wlll bring corruption as well as to go to the left : the way of anabaptists , viz. to admit none to membership and baptism but adult professors , is the straitest way , and one would think it should be a way of great purity , but experience hath abundantly shewed the contrary ; that it hath been an inl●t to great corruption , and looseness both in doctrine and practice , and a troublesome dangerous underminer of reformation . it is the lords own way , and his institutions onely , which he will bless , and not mans inventions , though never so plausible : neither hath god ( in his wisdome ) so instituted the frame of his covenant , and the constitution of the church thereby , as to make a perfect separation between good and bad , or to make the work of conversion , and initial instruction needless in the churches . conversion 〈◊〉 to the children of the covenant a fruit of the covenant , saith mr co●ton b) . if we do not keep in the way of a converting grace-giving covenant , and keep persons under those church-dispensations wherein grace is given , the church will dye of a lingring , though not of a violent death . the lord hath not set up churches onely that a few old christians may keep one another warm while they live , and then carry away the church into the cold grave with them when they dye : no , but that they might , with all the care , and with all the obligations , and advantages to that care that may be , 〈◊〉 up still successively another generation of subjects to christ that may stand up in his kingdome when they are gone , that so he might have a people and kingdome successively continued to him from one generation to another . we may be very injurious to christ as well as to the souls of men , by too much straitning , and narrowing the bounds of his kingdome or visible church here on earth . certainly enlargement , so it be a regular enlargement thereof , is a very desirable thing : it is a great honour to christ to have many willing subjects ( as these are willing and desirous to be under the government of christ that we plead for ) and very suitable to the spirit and grace of christ in the gospel . in church-reformation , it is an observable truth ( saith ●areus on the parable of the tares ) that those that are for too much strictness , do more bu●t then profit the church . see dioda●e on matt. 13.29 . cyprian epist. 51. 3. there is apparently a greater ▪ ●anger of corruption to the churches by enlarging the subjects of full communion , and admitting unqualified , or meanly qualified persons to the lords table and voting in the church , whereby the interest of the power of godliness will soon be prejudiced , and elections , admissions , censures , so carried , as will be hazardous thereunto . now it is ev●dent , that this is , and will be the temptation , viz. to ever-enlarge full communion , it baptism be limited to the children of such as are admitted thereunto . and it is easie to observe , that many of the reasonings of our brethren , and others ▪ are more against the non-admission of the parents in question to full communion , then against the admission of their children to baptism . how unreasonable is it then to object against us ●s corrupters of the churches , when we stand for a greater strictness then they in that wherein the main danger of church-corrupting lyes ? we doubt not to affirm , that that principle which hath been held forth by our brethren , viz. [ that if the church can have any hope of persons , that they have any thing of faith and grace i● them , though never so little , they ought , being adult , to be admitted to full communion ] this we say will , if followed , bring corruptions and impurities into churches : for he must abandon all the rules of charity , that cannot hope this of multitudes of young persons that grow up among us , who yet if they were presently admitted to full communion , we should soon feel a change in the management of church●affairs ; and the interest of formality and common profession , would soon be advanced above the interest of the power of godliness . whether we be in the right in this matter of strictness as to full communion , scripture and reason must determine ( and were this the place of that dispute , we have much to say in it , and to be sure , the practice of these churches hitherto hath been for it , as also their profession in the synod in 1648. platform of discipline , cap. 12. sect. 7. hence to depart from that , would be a real departure from our former practice and profession : whereas to enlarge baptism to the children of all that stand in the church , is but a progress to that practice that suits with our profession ) but certain it is that we are , and stand for the purity of the churches , when as we stand for such qualifications as we do , in those we would admit to full communion ; and do withstand those notions and reasonings that would inferre a laxness therein , which hath apparent peril in it . but we can hardly imagine what hurt it would do , or what danger of spoiling the churches there is in it , for poor children to be taken within the verge of the church , under the wings of christ in his ordinances , and to be under church-care , and discipline and government for their souls good ; to be in a state of initiation and education in the church of god , and consequently to have baptism , which is the seal of initiation ; when as they shall not come to the lords table , nor have any hand in the management of church-affairs ( as elections of officers , admissions , and censures of members ) untill as a fruit of the foresaid help and means , they attain to such qualifications as may render their admission into full communion safe and comfortable , both to their own souls , and to the churches . in sum , we make account , that if we keep baptism within the compass of the non-excommunicable , and the lords supper within the compass of those that have ( unto charity ) somewhat of the power of godliness ( or grace in exercise ) we shall be near about the right middle-way of church-reformation . and as for the preservation of due purity in the church , it is the due exercise of discipline that must do that , as our divines unanimously acknowledge , for that is gods own appointed way ( and the lord make and keep us all careful and faithul therein ) not the curtailing of the covenant , which may be man's way ; but is not the way of god wherein alone we may expect his blessing . the good lord pardon the imperfections and failings that attend us in these debates ; accept of what is according to his will , and establish it ; save us from corrupting extremes on either hand , and give unto his people one heart and one way to fear him for ever , for the good of them and of their children after them . errata in the book following . page 12. line 18. their infancy , reade from infancy . pag. 22. lin . 16. he added r. here added . pag. 49. lin . 4. there r. here . pag. 53. lin . 35. his r. this . pag. 60. lin . 7. of that r. of the pag. 66. lin . 1. do run r. do not run . pag. 98. lin . 11. do administer r. so administer . in answ. to the preface . pag. 11. lin . 33. mor r. more . pag. 16. lin . ult . into r. unto . a defence of the answer and argvments of the synod , met at boston in the year 1662. concerning the subject of baptism , and consociation of churches : against the reply made thereto , by the reverend mr. iohn d●venpor● , in his treatise , entituled , another essay for investigation of the truth , &c. the reverend author in this his essay , before he come to speak to that which the synod delivered , doth premise eleven or twelve positions , by which ( he saith ) the determinations of the synod are to be examined , and so far , and no further to be approved and received , as a consent and harmony of them with th●se may be cleared , &c. pag. 8. concerning which positions we will not say much , because the intendment in this def●nce , is onely to clear what is said by the synod , against what this reverend author saith against the same in his 〈◊〉 ; and therefore untill he speak to what the synod delivered , we think it not needful to insist long upon these premised positions . onely this we may say concerning them , that though su●dry things in them be sound and good , yet the posi●ions themselves being not scripture , but his own private collections , therefore we do not see that we are bound to take these positions ▪ as the standard and rule , by which to judge of what the synod saith : but if the synods doctrine be agreeable to scripture , we think that may be sufficient for defence thereof , whether it agree with the premised positions , or not . and when himself , pag. 1. doth commend it as a good profession in the synod , that , to the law and to the testimony they do wholly referre themselves ; had it not been also commendable in him to have done the like , rather then to lay down positions ( though he conceives them rightly deduced from scripture ) and then to say , nothing is to be approved further then it consents with those positions ? himself may please to consider of this . but to leave this of the premised positions , and to come to the main business ; concerning the subject of baptism , the first proposition of the synod is this , viz. they that according to scripture are members of the visible church , are the subjects of baptism : the second is this : viz. the members of the visible church according to scripture , are confederate visible believers , in particular churches , and their infant-seed , i. e. children in 〈◊〉 ▪ whose next parents , one or both , are in covenant . now what saith the reverend author to these ? that which he saith , is this : i cannot approve the two first propositions , without some change of the terms : in the first , thus ; they that according to christs ordinance , are regular and actuall members , &c. the second , thus ; the actuall and regular members of the visible church , according to christs ordinance , &c. pag. 9. answ. so that the alteration required , is , that in stead of [ scripture ] it be said [ christs ordinance ] and in stead of [ members ] [ actuall and regular members . ] but a necessity of this alteration doth not appear : for , as for the one particular , can we think that th●re i● any such difference between the scripture , and the ordinance of christ , that 〈◊〉 may be members of the visible church , and so subjects of baptism , according to the f●●er , and yet not according to the la●ter● ▪ if it be according to the scripture , may it not ●e said to be according to christs ordinance ? sure , when christ himself bids us search the scripture , job . 5.39 . and when the bereans are commended for searching the scripture , whether those things were so , which were preached by paul , acts 17.11 . and when all the scripture is for our learning , rom. 15.4 . and doth contain a perfect rule in all things that concern gods worship , whether natural , or instituted , as this reverend author saith , in the first of his premised positions ; upon these grounds it may seem , that what is according to scripture , needs not to want our approbation , for fear left it agree not with the ordinance of christ. and indeed , how can that be taken for an ordinance of christ , which is not according to scripture ? that being considered also , which is said by the reverend author in his second position , that whatsoever christ did institute in the christian churches , he did it by gods appointment , as moses by gods appointment , gave out what he delivered in the church of israel . now if all that is instituted by christ , be according to gods appointment , and that the scripture contains a perfect rule concerning all instituted worship , and so concerning all gods appointments ; it may seem a needless thing to withhold our approbation from that which is according to scripture , as if it might be so , and yet not be according to the ordinance of christ. besides , how shall we know a thing to be an ordinance of christ , if it be not according to the scripture ? and for the other alteration desired , that in stead of [ members ] it be [ regular and actuall members ] may we think that men may , or can be members according to scripture , and not regular , nor actuall members ? if the scripture be the rule , and ● perfect rule , then they that are members according to scripture , are members according to rule , and so are regular members . and if actuall be contradistinct from potentiall ; then they that are members according to scripture , are actuall members , and not onely potentiall , or potentially such : for , such potential members the scripture approveth not . upon these grounds , we see no necessity of the alteration fore-mentioned . propos. 3. the infant-seed , &c. when grown up are personally under the watch , discipline , and government of the church . arg. 1. children were under patriarchall and mosaical discipline of old , &c. reply . the text alledged ( viz. gen. 18.19 . & 21.9 , 10.12 . and gal. 5.3 . ) do not prove the antecedent , viz. that children were under patriarchal and mosaical discipline , p. 10. ans. and yet for the one of these , the reverend author confesseth , in answer to this argument , pag. 11.12 . that the members of the church in the patriarchs families , were to continue in communion with the church from their being circumcised , all the dayes of their life , untill they were cast out , as ishmael — or voluntarily departed from it , as esau. and doth not this sufficiently imply , that children in those churches , when adult , were under discipline in those churches ? for , can we think that those churches had no church-discipline in them ? or that the members of them were not under that discipline ? or the children , when grown up , were not members ? sure , if they continued in communion with the church from their being circumcised , all the dayes of their life , until they were cast out , or did voluntarily go away ; then it was not meer growing up to be adult , that caused their church-relation , or communion with the church , to cease . and if their communion with the church did not cease , but continue , how can it be avoided but they were under church-discipline ? where shall we finde ground from scripture or good reason , that these children , when adult , did still continue in communion with the church , and yet were not under the church-discipline that then was ? it seems to us , that the one of these , which the reverend author doth expresly affirm , doth unavoidably imply the other , which is affirmed by the synod . there might be many children in those families of the patriarchs , who when they were adult , were neither cast out , as ishmael , nor departed , as esau ; and these continuing in communion with the church all the dayes of their life , from their being circumcised , as the reverend author saith they did , they were therefore under the church-discipline that then was . and if they might be cast out , as ishmael was , gen. 21. as the reverend author confesseth ; it cannot be denied but that there was discipline in those churches , and that children , when grown up , were subject thereto : for , as for that which the reverend author suggesteth , pag. 11. that ishmael being thirteen years old when he was circumcised , was then admitted into church-fellowship and full communion by his personal covenanting , being at years of discretion . the answer is , that it is very unusual that children at thirteen years of age should be fit for full communion . and as for ishmael , there is no such thing testified of him in the scripture ; but on the contrary , when the lord saith , he should be a wilde man , and his hand against every man , and every mans hand against him , gen. 16. & when as he soon after became such a mocker and persecutor , gen. 21. gal. 4. as that for it he was cast out , gen. 21. it is therefore not very probable that he at thirteen years of age had so much goodness in him , as that upon the profession thereof he should then be admitted to full communion . it seems to us more probable , considering the things mentioned , that he was admitted as a childe in minori●y , by vi●tue of the covenant with abraham and his seed ▪ and yet when grown up , he was so under discipline , as to be cast out for his wickedness . and for that other of mosaicall discipline , the reverend author confesseth , p. 11 , 12. that all the grown members of the church of israel were brought under such discipline , as was established in that church by a solemn covenant , whereof all adult persons were to take hold personally . and if all the grown members of that church were brought under such discipline as was then established , then the other particular in the antecedent , that children were u●der mosaicall discipline , is here also confessed by the author . indeed , he conceiveth they were brought under discipline by covenanting personally ; but that is not clear : but for the thing it self , that they were under discipline , this we see is by him confessed ; which is that which the synod affirmed . and why may not that text , gal. 5.3 . be a sufficient proof thereof ? if they that were circumcised , were bound to all the duties of the law , as the text affirmeth ; then they were bound to that ecclesiastical discipline that the law of moses appointed : and therefore children being circumcised , were so bound , even when they were adult , for then they remained circumcised . there are good expositors who upon that text do teach , that circumcision was an obligation to the keeping of all the commandments of the law in the old testament , and that baptism is the like for all the commandments of the gospel : see paraeus , and perkins in loc . whereby it appeareth ; that what discipline was under the old testament , children circumcised in infancy were subject thereto , when adult , as being bound by their circumcision to all the commandments of the law. so much for defence of the antecedent in this argument . but , saith the reverend author , though the antecedent were more manifestly true , yet the consequent is not good ; for there is not par ratio , the like reason of those patriarchal and mosaical churches , and of congregational churches under the gospel , page 11. ans. and yet the reverend author confesseth in position the fifth and sixth , that the covenant of abraham was the same in substance under the law , and under the gospel : and , that the kingdome of god , is the same in substance which is taken from the iews , and given to the gentiles ; yea , and that baptisme is come in the place of circumcision , and therefore infants of confederates are now to be baptized , as then they were to be circumcised , they being both outward seales of the same covenant in substance . so that here seems to be a plain acknowledgment that there is par ratio , though in the place in hand it be denied . for , if the covenant be for substance the same now as it was then , and that therefore baptism may be now dispensed to infants , as circumcision was then , those ordinances being both seales of the same covenant for substance ; is not this an acknowledgment of a par ratio between them ? and if so , what should hinder but that children , when grown up , may as well be under church-discipline now , as under the old testament ? for , may they be now baptized in their infancy , as then they were circumcised , because there is in both par ratio ? and might they be then under church-discipline , and yet now not so , because here there is not par ratio ? is poedobaptisme in the new testament , rightly inferred from the circumcision of infants in the old testament , because here there is par ratio between them ? and is not their subjection to church-discipline , when adult , in the new testament , rightly inferred from the like subjection in the old ? it doth not appear that there is any want of par ratio in the one case , any more then in the other . as for that which is here immediately brought in pag. 11. to prove that there is not , par ratio ; viz. because the members of the church , in the patriarchs families , were to continue in communion with the church all the dayes of their life , until they were cast out , as ishmael or voluntarily departed from it , as esau. we conceive this is no proof at all of the disparity alledged ; and the reason is , because we say the very same concerning the children of church-members in these dayes , viz. that they still continue in the church all the dayes of their life , if they be not cast out in a gospel way , which he doth not disprove . and therfore in this there is no want of par ratio . and for the proof of disparity between the church of israel , and our churches , viz. 1. that we do not read of any ordinance given them , for casting out members for sins against the moral law. and 2. that the grown members of that church were brought under such discipline as was established in that church , by a solemn covenant , whereof all adult persons were to take hold personally . the answer is ; touching the former of these , that sundry things may be said to shew , that it is very probable that in israel there was appointed of god an ordinance of church-censure or d●scipline , not only for sins against the ceremoniall law , but also against the moral ; for , the lord doth so of●en , and earnestly command holiness and purity to that people , and so often and severely reproveth the contrary , and that not only in the offenders themselves , but also in them that suffered it , and this not only in ceremonial matters , but also in sins against the moral law , that it is not very probable that he would have no church-discipline used for such matters as these , but only for ceremonial . is it likely , that if a man should eat leavened bread in the time of the passeover , that for this he must be cut off from the congregation , as exod. 12.15 , 19. or if a man should touch a dead body , or a bone of a man , or a grave , &c. that this were such uncleanness , as that he must not then enter into the tabernacle or temple , but , if he did , it would be a defiling of the sanctuary of the lord , and therefore such offenders must be cut off from their people ? and yet nevertheless , if a man had killed another man , or had committed the sin of whoredome , or drunkeness , or other abomination , that yet there was no such uncleanness in these as to defile the sanctuary , or to cause a man to be kept out , or cut off , or cast out for the same ? this seems to us not very probable . and yet if it were certain and clear , that so it was in those times , the purpose for which this is alledged is not gained thereby , but the consequence questioned may be sound and good for all this . the consequence is , that if children were under mosaical discipline of old , then they are under congregational discipline now : this is the synods argument . but , saith the answer , this consequence is not good , because mosaical discipline was not to cast men out for sins against the moral law : but , say we , the argument and consequence may be good for all this ; for , suppose there were this difference between the mosaical discipline that was then , and the congregational discipline that is now , that the former were onely for ceremonial uncleanness , and the lat●er for moral ; yet , if children were under the discipline that was then , we conceive they are therefore under the church-discipline that is now : and we think this arguing to be better , and more strong , then to say , that because they are not under such discipline as was then , that therefore now they are under none at all . and plain it is , that the apostle a●gueth for the maintenance of the ministry now under the gospel , from the maintenance of the ministry that was under moses , 1 cor. 9.13 . and sheweth the danger of unworthy receiving our sacraments , from the evil that b●fell many who were partakers of the baptism , and the spirituall meat and drink that was then , 1 cor. 10.1 , 2 , &c. and if he argue from the ministry and sacraments that we●e under moses ; why i● not the argument also good from the mosaicall discipline ? we cannot think the apostle ▪ s consequence might be denied , because we have now no such holy things ; no such temple and altar as was then ; no such baptism in the cloud , and in the sea ; no such mann● , and water out of the rock , as they had : to deny the consequence of the apostle's argument upon any such ground , we think were very insufficient ; and therefore why may not the consequence be good , from the subjection of children to mosaical discipline , to prove their subjection to new-testament-discipline ; although it were granted , that their discipline were onely for ceremonial matters , and that we have none such , but onely for sins against the moral law ? for ought we see , the argument and consequence is good in this case , as well as in the other . the other particular alledged by the reverend author , to shew a difference between the church of israel , and our churches , and that therefore children , when adult , might be under mosaical discipline , but not under congregational ▪ is this : because in that church grown members were brought under such discipline as was established in that church by a solemn covenant , whereof all adult persons were to take hold personally . p. 12. ans. it is not clear , nor at all said in the place alledged , viz. d●ut . 26.16 , 17 , 18. that by the entring into covenant there mentioned , they were brought under the church-discipline in that church , but they might be under church-discipline otherwise , even by the commandment and ordinance of god , and not meerly by that covenant , or by means of it . for , if that covenant were entred into in the day of their bringing the tythes of the third year , which is spoken of in the verses immediately preceding , viz. ver . 12 , 13 , 14 , 15. then it could not be that covenant that brought all adult persons under discipline : for , a man might be adult , and yet not have any tythes to bring ; as not having yet any personal estate or possession of his own , as we see it often is with us ; yea , a man might be adult , and have estate and tythes two years afore this , for this that is here spoken of was the tythes of the third year . now if a man were adult and had personal estate afore this time , or adult and had yet no estate , and that this covenant was onely entred into at that third year of tything , then ● cannot be that by this covenant they were brought under discipline , for they were adult , and so under discipline afore . or if the covenant here mentioned , were not entred into at the third year of tything ; then why might it not be of all the people joyntly together , and not of any particular persons severally by themselves ? there is nothing in the text contrary to this , but rather for it , in that the covenancer here spoken of , is avouched that day to be the lords peculiar people , ver . 18 , 19. which title of [ people ] is not suitable to any particular person . and sure it is , that covenant deut 29.10 , 11 , &c. was of all the people joyntly together , for it was a covenant not onely with men , but with women , yea with little children , and with such as were not there that day , but with posterity that should be afterward born ; and therefore this was not onely a covenant of the adult , to bring them under church-discipline as if else they had not been under it , but being also with little ones , that were then in minority , it might suffice to bring them under discipline when they should be grown up . so that nothing doth yet appear , to prove that ●●ult persons in israel were not under discipline in that church , but by their taking hold of the covenant personally ; but for ought that doth yet appear , they might be under discipline afore they had thus done . therefore we yet see not any such disparity between the patriarchall and mosaicall churches formerly , and the congregationall churches under the. new testament , but that from the subjection of children , when adult , unto church-discipline in the former , may be justly inferred their subjection thereto in the latter . so much for defence of the synods first argument , to prove that children of church-members , when adult , are under the watch , discipline , and government of the church . to the second argument , to prove children when adult subject to church-discipline ; viz. because they are within the church , or members thereof , and therefore subject to church-judicature , 1 cor. 5.12 . the answer that is given , is , that the argument is to be denied , and the text alledged doth not prove it . ans. the words of the text are express and plain , what have i to do to judge them also that are without ? do ye not judge them that are within ? but them that are without god judgeth . by which it is plain , and undeniable , that though those that are without be not subject to church-judicature , or church-discipline , yet for those that are within it is otherwise : and therefore , if these children be within , to deny them to be subject to church-judicature , is to deny the words of the holy ghost . as for that which is here said , that by [ them within ] is meant members in full communion , such as are in full membership , as well of all other ordinances , as of censures : our answer is , that this should be proved , as well as affirmed , for , affirmanti incumbit probatio . it was wont to be said , non est distinguendum ubi lex non distinguit : distinctions should be warranted by the word ; therefore when the word saith , such as are within , are subject to church-judicature , to restrain this being within , to those that are in full communion in all ordinances , and to exempt many others , though adult persons , and within the church , onely because they are not so with●n , as to be in full communion ; we say , to exempt them upon this ground from church-judicature , is more then we see any sufficient proof for . as for the reason here rendred , that excommunication is a casting out from communion , and therefore how can any be formally excommunicated , who were never in communion , and so within the church ? the answer is , that the synod doth not here expresly speak of excommunica●●o● , and that the children are subject to that ordinance ; but onely saith , they are under the watch , discipline and gove●nment of the church , and therefore there was no need here to answer , that they cannot be excommunicated : for , if that were so , ( which we are farre from granting ) yet what the synod here saith , may be true f●r all this . and th●ugh ●t be true , that such as were never in church-communion at all , cannot properly be excommunicated ; yet the reverend author , we suppose , doth not , nor will deny , but that many who have never yet been p●rtakers of all ordinances , or of the lord● supper as children in minority , yet may be counted church-member● , and so have much church-communion , and enjoy much benefit thereby ; as the covenant , and baptism the seal thereof ; the prayers , and blessing of the church ; church-watchfulness , to excite them , and encourage them to , and in good , and to reclaim them from evil : such church-communion as this , they may be partakers of , who y●● have not been admitted to full communion ; and therefore what impossibility is there in it , but that men may be excommunicated , viz. from such communion as they had , though they never had such full communion as others . if a parent in full communion be justly , for some delinquency , excommunicated , we suppose the reverend author * will say , that his children in minority are cut off from their membership with him , and so are excommunicated with the pa●ent . and if so , then there may be excommunicatio● , where there never was the enjoyment of full communion . and so for all that is here said , [ that pe●sons not in full communion cannot be excommun●ca●ed ] yet what the synod saith may be true , that persons not in full communion may be under the watch , and discipline , and government of the church : and how much more if even such persons may be cut off from their church-membership , and so from what church-communion they had ? to the third argument , to prove children of church-members , when adult , to be under the watch , discipline , and government of the church ; viz. because they are disciples , and therefore under discipline in christs school . the reverend author's answer hath in it a concession , and an exception : the concession is , that all church-members are disciples , infants foeder●lly , &c. and therefore both are under the discipline of the church suitably to their membership . now if all church-members be disciples , and therefore under d●scipline , and even infants so in their way ; it is strange , that these that their infancy are now become adult , should now be n● disciples , nor church-members , and so not under church-discipline , which before they were under ; when as they have neither been cut off from their membership and discipleship , nor deserving any such matter : one would think it were more rational to say , that as they were in church-relation when infants , so they continue therein , though adult ; except in some way of god they be cut off therefrom , and do so deserve . but though the reverend author yield , as is said , yet he puts in this exception ; that he findes not any where in scripture , that such adult persons are styled disciples , or accounted members . ans. suppose such term or title were not found applied to the persons spoken of , yet sith for the thing it is confessed that they were disciples and members when infants , is it not more rationall to confess they are so still ( except the scripture said the contrary ) and that they so continue ( though the term and title be not found ) untill they be upon desert cut off , or cast ou● , rather then to say , that now being adult , they have lost the relation and priviledge which they had when they were infants , though they have not been cut off from it , nor ever so deserved before men ? for , if they incur such loss by becoming adult , it may seem it were good for members children to dye in their infancy , and never live to be adult ; sith in their infancy they had church-relation , and covenant-state , which now they have lost , though without their desert . the adult disciples , in mat. 28 20. must observe , and do all christs commandments , therefore the disciples there intended , w●th reference to adult persons , are members in full communion , pag. 13. ans. this arguing is but too lik● to that of the antipoedobaptists : for it is well known how they would exclude infants by this text , from being partakers of bap●ism , because they are not d●sciples so , made by teaching , or by being taught to observe all christs commandments ; because infants cannot do this , therefore , say they , they are not disciples to be baptized . but the reverend author confesseth , that i●fants are disciples ; and , as such , are to be baptized . why then should he say that now , when they are become adult , they are disciples no longer , as not observing all christs commandments , not being in full communion ? the arguing of the antipoedopaptists from this text is to this purpose , viz. all disciples that are to be baptized , ●●e taught to observe all christs commandments ; but this doth not agree to infants : therefore infants are no● disciples that are to be baptized . and is not the arguing of the reverend author much like it ? viz. all adult persons that are disciples , do observe all ch●ists commandments : but this doth not agree to such adult persons as are not in full communion : therefore adult persons that are not in full communion are not disciples . the conclusion in the former arguing , the reverend author we are confident will not own ; and therefore the conclusion in the latter , being so l●ke unto it , one answer may serve for both the arguments ; which is this , that the major propositions in both do not universally and absolutely hold but onely so far as the persons are capable ; so far all disciples that are to be baptized , and all adult persons that are disciples , are to observe all christs commandments : but as this doth not exclude infants from being disciples , and from being baptized ; so neither are the adult person ▪ spoken of excluded from being disciples , though neither the one nor the other be yet fit for observing all christs commandments , in full communion , in all the ordinances . to the fourth argument ; they are in church-covenant , therefore subject to church-power , gen. 17.7 . & 18.19 . the answer is , that they are not in covenant dejure , being adult , and not admitted into church-communion in all ordinances . ans. and yet the text saith , the covenant of abraham is with him , and his seed in their generations , gen. 17.7 . and this reverend author will not deny , but that those that are in the covenant in their infancy , are thereby left under engagement to service and subjection to christ in his church , when they shall be grown up , and that this engagement upon them is strong — to know the god of their parents , and to serve him with a perfect heart and a willng mind p. 44. so that if they do it not , but live in neglect or contempt of the ordnances , or unsuitable conversation , they hereby live in the breach of that covenant , whereby they were left under engagement in their infancy , pag 43. ●4 45. now if this be so , it plainly appeareth hereby , that as they were in the covenant in ●h●● i●fancy , they are likewise so when adult ; for else , how could their sins of omission or commission be breach of that covenant ? can a man be guilty of breaking covenant , when he is not 〈◊〉 but the sins of these adult persons are breach of covenant , therefore they are in the covenant : therefore that cannot stand which is here said , that these adult persons , that were in covenant in their infancy , are not now in covenant when adult , until they be admitted into church-communion in all ordinances . to the fifth argument , viz. they are subjects of the kingdome of christ , and therefore under the laws and government of his kingdom● , ezek. 37.25 , 26. the answer is , that this argument may be retorted against themselves , and the proofs of it , thus : the subjects of christs kingdome have full communion in all the priviledges of christs kingdome , but these adult persons have not so , ex-confesso , therefore they are not subjects ●f christs kingdome , and so are not under the laws and government of it . ans. the sum is , the subjects of christs kingdome have full communion in all the priviledges of christs kingdome : but the adult persons spoken of have not such communion : e●go . but is this true , that a●● the subjects of christs kingdome have full communion in all the priviledges of it , even in all , and not in some onely , i. e. in all ordinances ? what shall be said then of little children ? must they have communion in all church-priviledges , and all ordinances , as the lords supper , voting in elections , &c. or else be no subjects of christs kingdome ? it is plain , that such communion they cannot have ; and yet it is as plain , that of such is the kingdome of go● , and of christ , and therefore he would have them to be brought unto him , and rebuked those that would have kept them from him , mark 10 and therefore persons may be subjects of christs kingdome , and yet not have communion in all th● ordinances , or priviledges of that kingdome . and therefore the adult persons spoken of , may be subjects of christs kingdome , though not yet fit for all ordinances ; and yet being ●ubjects , must be subject to such laws of that kingdome as are suitable to their state , as infants and little children to such as are suitable to theirs . exclude these adult persons from being under the laws and government of christs kingdome , because they have not communion in all the priviledges of it , and by the same reason we may exclude infants : allow infants to be subjects of christs kingdome , and partakers of some priviledges of it , viz. such as they are capable of , though not of all ; and then why may not the like be yielded concerning the adult persons spoken of ? to the sixth argument , the answer returned , is , that this is the same with the third , and therefore the same answer may serve for this also . ans. if this were so , then our defence of the third , may be a defence of this also : nevertheless , it seemeth this argument is not the same with the third , but distinct from it , the mediums in them not being the same , but distinct : for in the one , the argument is from their being disciples , or scholars , and therefore under discipline in christs school ; but this here is from their being baptized , and that therefore they are in a state of subjection to the authoritative teaching of christs ministers , and to the observation of all his commandment● , and that therefore they are in a state of subjection to discipline : for thus the argument stands ; they that are baptized , are thereby left in a state of subject on to the authoritative teaching of christs ministers , and to the observation of all his commandments , and therefore in a state of subjection to discipline : but the adult persons spoken of are persons baptized : therefore , &c. the p●op●si●ion is grounded on the text , mat. 28.19 , 20. where christs ministers are required to bap●ize , and to teach the baptized to observe all his commandments . the assumption is plain of it self . to the seventh argument , viz. that elders must seed , i. e. both teach and rule all the flock ; and that children are part of the flock . the reverend author answereth , that this concerneth not such grown persons as are not in full communion , for without this they are not to be accounted of the flock or church . ans. if this that is here said were sufficiently and clearly proved , it would be very acceptable to many elders in this country , as clearing them from a great part of the burthen which they suppose themselves to be under . and when the holy-ghost saith , that they must take heed to themselves and to all the flock , act. 20 28. and that they must watch for their souls , as they that must give account , heb. 13.17 . to say , that these soules , and this flock , are only such as are in full communi●n , and infants or children in minority ; and that these last mentioned ▪ who then were of the flock , do now cease to be of it , when they become ●aul ; and that now the elders are not charged to watch over them any longer , nor to give account of their soules , we fear this would be an undue straitning and limiting of the texts alledged , and would be no good plea before the lord ; and therefore without b●t●er proof , we dare not assent unto it . for what the synod alledgeth , " that the apostle writing to the f●ock or church at ephesus , doth also write to children , eph. 6.1 . as counting them part of the flock : we do not see that this is sufficiently taken off , by what the reverend author answereth , viz. that those children were either children in their minority , or if adult , they were personally joyned to the church , and so in full communion . for , let the words and scope of the text be considered , and we conceive it will appear , that this exposition of the place is too narrow ; for the children there spoken of , are such as were bound to obey their parents in the lord , this being right , and such as were under the fifth commandment ; the words whereof the apostle doth there alledge , honour thy father and mother , &c. now how shall it appear , that though children in minority , and children when admitted into full communion in the church , are bound to obey their parents , and to honour father and mother , yet other children are not so bound ? is there any ground for it , that children now adult , if not in full communion in the church , are exempted from this commandment of obedience to their parents , and of ho●ouring of them ? we conceive there is none : and if there be not , then the children there spoken of , are children adult as well as others , w●ether in full communion or not . and if so , then these children , as well as others , are part of the flock and church of ephesus , to whom that epistle is written , and then the whole flock being under the charge of elders to feed them ( i. e. both to teach and k●l● them ) it appeareth thereby , that what the synod here saith , that these children are under the watch , and discipline , and government of the church , is sound and good , and so stands , for all that is here alledged to the contrary . in answer to the eighth argument , from the danger of irreligion and apostacy breaking into churches , and the want of any church-way to prevent and heal the same , if these children of church-members be not under church-government and discipline , and that through want hereof , many church-members would be brought under that dreadfull judgement of being let-alone in their wickedness . hos. 4.16 , 17. the reverend author nameth sundry other means for preventing these evils ; as , that no adult person● be received into personal membership , till fit for all church-communion ; and that the keyes of the kingdome of heaven , which christ hath left to binde and loose , be rightly managed toward delinquent-members that are orderly admitted into church-communion ; and for others that are not thus joyned to the church , that authority in families and common-wealth be wisely and faithfully managed toward such , pag. 15 , 16. ans. all these we acknowledge may , by the blessing of god , be much available in their way for ●he pu●pose ●lledged : and , oh that there were due care and wa●ch●●●lnes● in churche● ▪ families , and common-wealth , for the faithful and due exercise hereof ! nevertheless , we conceive all these are not ●●fficien● for the purpose desired ; 1. because some of them are not church-wayes at all ▪ of which the synods argument speaketh ; though it is not so expressed by the reverend author : and therefore t●ough government in families and common-wealth were carefully used in the manner expressed , yet church-way may be wanting for all this . 2. those church-wayes that are mentioned , viz. care in admitting into the church , and due managing the keyes of discipline to them that are so admitted , these are not sufficient to prevent the evils spoken of ; and the reason is , because there is a great multitude of persons who were either born in the church , or were admitted thereinto in their infancy or minority , who if they be not under church-discipline when adult , are let alone in their wickedness , in respect of any church-way to heal them ; and by want of this church-discipline toward these persons , i●religion and apostacy may break into the churches , notwithstanding all church-wayes toward others , and all other wayes in common-wealth and families toward these : for , church-way for the good of these there is none , if they be not under church-government and discipline . as for that which is here said by the reverend author , that the churches censuring of adult persons , admitted before they be qualified for communion in all ordinances , will not prevent or heal those evils , seeing the lord blesseth onely his own institutions , not mens devices ; and that humane inventions usually cause the evils which they pretend to cure , pag. 15. this reason may have in it self a truth ; viz. that gods institutions , and not mens inventions , are the way wherein men may expect a blessing . but , if such a thing be affirmed of church-discipline toward the persons spoken of , that such church-discipline is an humane invention , why should this be affirmed and not proved ? for , as for the persons spoken of , they were not first admitted when adult , but before they were adult , even in their infancy or minority ; and now being adult , and yet never cut off , or cast out from their church-relation , if by sin they deserve church-censure , and yet it be not applied to them , but that , in respect thereof , they be let alone , are they not then under that judgement , hos. 4 of being ●e● alone in their wickedness ? and doth not this neglect make way for i●religion and apostacy in churches , no church-way being used toward these for prevent●ng thereof ? for we do not see any ground to think , that the use of church disc●pline toward such is an humane invention . for these particulars to us do seem plain : 1. that church-discipline should be used toward all that are within the church , as there may be occasion and need of it , and as in respect of understanding and age they are capable . 2. it is plain also , that the persons spoken of were once within the church , and , as such , were baptized in their infancy ; this cannot be denied , but by joyning with the antipoedobaptists , in denying the ba●●●sm and church-memb●rship of little children . and lastly , it is plain also , that the persons spoken of , though now they be adult , were never yet , in any way of god , cast out , or cut off from the church , and the relation to it which they formerly had ; and many of them are far from deserving any such matter . now though church-government and church-discipline toward such as were never in the church , might be counted an humane d●vic● , yet for such as were once according to order and divine institution within it , as members thereof , and never were since st●out of 〈◊〉 , or cut off f●om that relation ( which is the case of the persons spoken of ) to say , that church-government and church-discipline toward such , is an humane inven●io● , we see no sufficient reason either so to say or think ; but do rather conceive , that this church-discipline is so far from being an humane invention , that the neglect thereof , is a neglect of a divine institution ; and that a● sowning of 〈◊〉 personspunc ; and declaring of them to be non-members , which some speak for ) if this be not a church-censure , what is it other then an humane invention and device ? so much for defence of what is said by the synod in their third proposition , to prove , that the children of church-members , when grown up , are under the watch , discipline , and government of the church . propose 4. the fourth proposition of the synod , is , that these adult persons are not therefore to be admitted to full communion , meerly because they are and continue members , without such further qualifications as the word of god requireth thereunto . by which proposition of the synod , there is a preventing of an usual objection from the danger of polluting the ordinances by unworthy partakers , if the children of church-members be counted members , and to be ( as such ) under church-watchfulness and government when adult ; for some may think , that if this their relation to the church be granted , there will then be danger that they will also come to the lords supper afore they be duely qualified for that ordinance : now the scope of this fourth proposition is to prevent this evil ; and therefore it is the more to be admired , that the proposition should not be granted by the reverend author , and by all that desire the lords supper may be preserved from unworthy partakers , as we do not doubt but he doth . but why then is this proposition stuck at ? if it may not be granted , that these adult persons are not to be admitted to f●ll communion without such qualifications as the word of god requireth thereunto , which is what the synod saith ; must the contrary to this be granted , that they may be admitted thereunto without such qualifications at all ? we suppose the reverend author would not grant this : and yet he doth not consent to the other , but excepts against the proofs of it . for , saith he , though this proposition seems to them plain , yet it seems not sufficiently cleared by their proofs : 1. from 1 cor. 11.28 , 29. where it is required , that such as come to the lords supper , be able to examine themselves , and discerne the lords body , else they will eat and drink unworthily , and eat and drink judgement to themselves , when they partake of this ordinance : but this ability is too of●●n seen to be wanting in the c●ildren of the covenant that grow up to years , pag. 16 , 17. to this argument the reply of the reverend author is by way of concession , and of exception . his concessions are two : 1. that the want of such abilities in the children of the covenant , is indeed too often seen , through the too frequent neglect of parents in their education , and of ministers and churches in their institution , ( or instruction ) and catechizing , and watching over them , pag. 17. ans. it seems then that the children of church-members , even when they are grown up to years ( for it is of such that the synods argument here speaketh , and so the reverend author doth express it ) are not only under the education of parents , but also under the institution , catechizing and watch of the ministry , and of the church ; how then will that stand which was said before , pag. 10. that when they are grown up , they are not under the watch , discipline and government of the church ? for here it is granted , that they are under the watch of the church ( and if under church-watch properly as such , then under discipline ) and that the neglect of ministers and churches herein , is one cause of their want of ability to examine themselves , and to discern the lords body . now can the neglect of church-watchfulness be a cause of this evil , if the lord have not appointed them to be under the same ? these things seem not well to agree . again , if the want of such abilities be too often seen in the children of the covenant when grown up , as is here acknowledged ; then what the synod here saith seems to be true , and stand good , that such grown persons , though children of the covenant , or church-members , are not therefore to be admitted to full communion : the reason is , because notwithstanding this , they may want that ability that is requisite to such full communion . 2. the second concession here is , that membership is separable from , yea destitute of such-ability in the infant-seed or children of the covenant , in their minority , and therefore they are not to be admitted to the lords supper ; and that text ( viz. 1 cor. 1● . 28 , 29. ) proves it . ans. doth that text prove that infants , and children in minority , though members of the church , are not yet to be admitted to the lords supper , because they are not able to examine themselves and to discerne the lords body ; and doth it not also prove the same concerning children when adult , if this disability be found in them also ? sure infants and children in minority , are not expresly mentioned in the text , no more then children when adult or grown up ; and if the logicians rule be good which saith à quatenus ad omne valet conj●quenti● , then if infants and children in minority must not be admitted to full communion , because of their want of the ability spoken of ; it will follow , if the like inability be found in the adult , that these also must not be admitted , and that for the like reason . and ●f that text 1 cor. 11. be sufficient to prove the one , it is sufficient for proof of the other also ; and so this argument of the synod stands good . the exception he added , is , that yet it may not be granted , that when they are grown up to years , they are , and continue members regularly , being through want of that ability not fit for church-communion , ( i. e. for full communion . ) ans. if it may not be granted that they continue members , why should not something be produced to prove the contrary ? why should such a thing be barely affirmed , and not proved ? it is sure they were once members , and , as such , were baptized ; and it is clear , that though now they be adult , or grown up , yet they were never , in any way of god , cut off , or cast out from their membership : and therefore we think it more rational to say , that they st●ll c●ntinue to be members , then to say that they do not ; and this without alledging any proof at all . as for that which here followeth , that if persons being unbaptized should desire to have the covenant and their church-membership sealed by baptism , they must hold f●rth faith in christ wrought in their hearts , before they may be baptized , as philip required the eunuch , acts 8. so , by parity of reason , f●om baptized in infancy , being grown up to years , desires to be joyned to the church , he must hold forth his personall faith in the son 〈◊〉 god , &c the answer is , that there is not , as is said , parity of reason between the cases alledged , but great disparity : for , in the one case the persons spoken of are unbaptized ; in the other , baptized already : in the one case , the persons desire to have the covenant and their church-membership sealed by baptism ; and in the other case there is no such d●si●e , the persons having had the covenant , and their membership sealed by bapt●sm already , even in their infancy or minority long since : in the one case , the persons seem as yet to be non-members , though they do 〈◊〉 that priviledge ; but in the other case , the persons were church-members long ago . for , as for that term that is used concerning these 〈◊〉 d●●ring to be joyned to the church by their own personall 〈…〉 c●●ve this word of [ joyning ] to the church if it be meant of their first joyning thereto , is very improper , because the●● persons are not now to be so joyned , but were joyned to the church long since : nor is the church now to admit them to church-membership , for they were admitted thereto long since . the second argument of the synod for proof of this fourth proposition , is from the old testament , where though men did continue members of the church , yet for ceremoniall uncleanness they were to be kept from full communion in the holy things ; yea , and the priests and porters had speciall charge that men should not partake in all the holy things , unless duely qualified for the same , notwi●hstanding their membership , &c. to this the reverend author answereth , 1. that the invalidity of proofes from the old testament , being applyed to gospel-ordinances , and so this of baptism under the new testament , in things whereof there is not the like reason , hath been declared in the fourth , sixth , and eighth positions , with which this proof doth not agree . ans. to this we answer , 1. that there is validity , and much weight in proofs from the old testament , for confirming and clearing things under the new : for even those scriptures were written for our learning , rom. 15.4 . and christ himself bids us search them , as those which did testifie of him , joh. 5.39 . and brings many proofs out of those scriptures for confirming and clearing things under the gospel , luk. 24.44 , 45 , 46. & 16.29 , 31. and so do the apostles likewise , even in main & fundamental matters , act. 17.2 , 3. & 28.23 . and so from the maintenance of the ministry that was under the old testament , to the maintenance of the ministry now , 1 cor. 9.13 . from their sacraments to ours ; and from the danger of unworthy receiving those , to the danger of unworthy receiving ours , 1 cor. 10.1 , 2. &c. by which , and much more that might be added , it is plain , that the scriptures of the old testament have much validity in them , for confirming and clearing truths in new testament-times . 2. the reverend author doth acknowledge , as was noted before , that the covenant of abraham is the same for substance , now under the gospel , as it was under the law ; and that the kingdome of god is the same to the iews formerly , and to the gentiles now ; and that baptisme of infants , under the new testament , may be rightly proved from the circumcision of inf●nts under the old. which passages do sufficiently witness , that in his judgement there is validity in proofs from the old testament , for things under the new. 3. it is a great weakness and mistake in sundry of the antipoedobaptists , that they would limit the proofs for infant-baptism , and for the covenant-interest of children , unto the scriptures of the new testament , as if the covenant of abraham , and the circumcision of infants in the old testament , were of no validity for the purpose mentioned . and it is not comfortable that the reverend author should so often harp upon this string , and so often mention this matter of the invalidity of old testament-scriptures for proof of matters in gospel times ; as if he did concur with them , in their tenet against ●oedobaptism , which he frequently professeth against , albeit in this , his language seems but too like theirs , which we could wish were otherwise . 4. for that expression of [ things whereof there is not the like reason ] being a limitation , or explanation of the invalidity spoken of , let this be applyed to the case in question , and we conceive it will not weaken the argument in hand , nor shew any invalidity therein , but rather the contrary ; for if ceremonial uncleanness did hinder men from full communion in the ordinances in the old testament , notwithstanding their membership ; is there not the like reason , or rather much more , that membership alone should not suffice for full communion in these dayes , if moral fitness and spiritual qualifications be wanting ? it seems in this case there is the like reason , or rather much more : and therefore the synods argument in the present case , and their proof from the old testament , cannot be laid aside , or refused , for any invalidity therein , through want of the like reason 2. the reverend author saith , if the texts alledged by the synod were applicable to church-members in gospel-times , yet they suit not the case in question . and why not ? the reason rendred , is , " because all men that were members of the iewish church , had full communion in all legal ordinances , even they that were ceremonially unclean had so before their uncleanness , and after they were healed of their uncleanness , as well as others . so then the unsuitableness is , that ceremoniall uncleannes , did debar men from full communion , though they had been partakers of it afore , and might be again after their cleansing : whereas the case in question is of such as yet never bad such full communion . but what weight is there in this , to weaken the synods argument ? if ceremoniall uncleanness did then hinder men from full communion , who had formerly had it is there not as much reason that want of spirituall qualifications should now binder men from such full communion , who yet have never had it ? one would think such a matter as would suffice for the debarring of one from full communion , who had formerly enjoyed it , might suffice for hindring one from such communion who never yet was partaker thereof . and if the priests and porters in israel had charge , that men should not partake of all the holy things , unless duely qualified for the same , notwithstanding their membership in f●ll communion with the church ( for so the reverend author , ● . 19 . understands that place in 2 chron. 23 19. ) doth it not much more follow , that such as yet never had such full communion may justly be kept theref●om , untill duely quali●ica , notwithstanding their membership ? for ought we see , this consequence is strong and undeniable , and so the synods argument in this place from the old testamen● is not at all overthrown , but rather more strengthned . as for what the reverend author saith , pag. 18 , 9. to the particular texts here alledged , viz. levit. 7.20 , 21. numb . 9.6 , 7. & 19.13 , 20. ezek. 44.7 , 8 , 9. which he understandeth to signifie and teach , that in gospel-times men should be removed ou● of church-communion by excommunication , if they were scandalous and impenitent sinners ; and that such scandalous persons , such as were visibly uncircumcised in heart , and spiritually unclean , should not be admitted into the church : we shall not insist upon these particulars , for it is our desire that no unworthy persons may be admitted into the church , nor suffered to continue therein . onely before we leave this second argument , it may be observed , that whereas the synod had said , more was required to adult persons eating the passover , then meer membership ; therefore so there is now to the lords supper . the reverend author answereth , it is true , more then that membership which they had in infancy or minority , was required in adult persons to eat the passover : for first , when they became adult , they were to covenant solemnly with the lord and his people in their own persons , whereunto heart-fitness was necessary , that their persons and services might be accepted of god — secondly , this heart-fitness was also to be exercised when they were to eat the passover , p. 19 , 20. wherein there is a consent to what the synod had said , about more then membership to be requisite to the eating of the passover . and if this ground of the synod be true and good , is not their inference from it good also , viz. that more then membership is also requisite to the receiving of the lords supper ? the third argument of the synod for confirming this fourth proposition , is taken from the different nature of baptism and the lords supper ; the former firstly and properly sealing covenant-holiness , church-membership , and planting into christ , and so members as such are the subjects of that ordinance : but the lords supper is a sacrament of growth in christ , and of speciall communion with him , and so supposeth a speciall renewing of faith and repentance in them that partake of that ordinance . the reverend author making answer to this , faith nothing at all touching the different nature of these two ordinances , on which this argument of the synod is built ; and so baptism may be for all church-members as such , and the lords supper not for all , but onely for some , for any thing that the reverend author saith to the contrary . for , as for the different nature of these two ordinances , he saith nothing thereto at all : but his answer is about the communion that is inferred from church-membership , viz. that the membership of children in minority infers church-communion , so far as they are capable — and so they are to be baptized ; but the church-membership of adult persons infers communion in all ordinances , and particularly in the lords supper . which answer , as it medleth not with the different nature of baptism , and the lords supper , from which the synod argueth ; so it is an answer which being considered in it self , is nothing but a petitio principii , or a begging of the question , affirming that which is the thing to be proved : for , the synods proposition is , that these ad●lt persons are not therefore to be admitted to full communion , meerly because they are and continue members — and they give three arguments for this . now the reverend author in answer to the third of those arguments , saith , as here we see , that the membership of adult persons , infers communion in all ordinances , the lords supper , &c. the synod saith in effect , this membership alone doth not infer full communion ; and the answer here given , is an affirming of the contrary , viz. that it doth infer it ; which answer cannot goe for a sufficient overthrow of the synods proposition , unless we shall say , that a meer affirming of the contrary , is sufficient for that purpose . but if a contrary affirmation , be a sufficient confutation , it were easy in that way to confute the things that are most strongly proved . for a conclusion of this fourth proposition , and the arguments for it , the synod doth infer , that if persons when adult may be , and continue members , and yet be debarred from the lords supper , until meet qualifications for the same be found in them , then may they also ( until like qualifications ) be debarred from that power of voting in the church , which pertaines to males in full communion : — for how can they who are not able to examine and judg themselves , be thought able and fit to discern and judge in the weighty affairs of the house of god ? now what saith the reverend author to this ? one thing he saith , is this , that church-membership in adult persons , infers communion in all ordinances , in the lords supper , and in voting , and in censures ; which is nothing but an affirmation of the contrary to the synods proposition , which they had confirmed by arguments , and of their inference therefrom : but until their arguments be taken away , their proposition , and their inference from it , stands good : and therefore this affirmation of the contrary may not be admitted . another thing the reverend author here saith , is this , that no adult person may be received into meer membership regularly , until he be qualified fitly for other ordinances , and for voting , and judging in church-affairs . where , if by receiving such into membership be meant , that they were not members before now , when they are adult , but are now first received into that estate ; then the answer is , that the adult persons spoken of are not now first received into membership , but have been in that estate long since , even from their infancy or minority , and therefore they cannot properly be said to be now received into membership : but if hereby be meant , that they cannot regularly be acknowledged to be members , until they be fitly qualified for all ordinances ; for voting , and for judging in censures , then this is but the same which we had before , even an affirmation contrary to what the synod had said . but till the synods proposition , with their arguments for●● , and their inference from i● , be removed , the reader may judge what is to be thought of a meer affirmation to the contrary . so much for defence of the synods fourth proposition . propos. 5. for the fifth proposition , viz. church-members who were admitted in minority , understanding the doctrine of faith , and publickly professing their assent thereto ; not scandalous in life , and solemnly owning the covenant before the church , wherein they give up themselves and their children to the lord , and subject themselves to the government of christ in the church , their children are to be baptized . the first argument of the synod for confirming this proposition , is ; because the children here spoken of are partakers of that which is the main ground of baptizing any children whatsoever , and neither the parents nor the children do put in any barre to binder it . of which the former branch is proved ; because interest in the covenant is the main ground of title to baptism , and this these children have ; and that interest in the covenant is the ground of baptizing an● , the synod proves ; because in the old testament this was the ground of title to circumcision , gen. 17.7 , 9 , 10 , 11. to which baptism now answer , col. 2.11 , 12 and because in acts 2.38 39. they are 〈◊〉 ground exhorted to be baptized , because the promise ( 〈◊〉 covenant ) was to them and to their children . now what saith the reverend author to these proofs ? truly nothing at all that doth appear ; and therefore the argument & proofs of it , stand good for ought that is here said to the contrary . and indeed , how can it be otherwise ? sith nothing is more plain , then that the covenant was the ground of circumcision ; and that they in acts. 2. are therefore exhorted to be baptized : i will establish my covenant , saith god , gen. 17. between me and thee , and thy seed after thee — ye shall therefore keep my covenant : and this is my covenant which you shall keep , every male among you shall be circumcised : and ▪ saith peter , repent , and ●e baptized wherefore , or on what g●ou●d must they be so ? because ( saith he ) th● promise 〈…〉 to your children : whereby it is undeniably plain , that the covenant was the ground of title to circumcision , and is now of title to baptism . nor can this be denied by the reverend author , because he plainly yields in position fifth and sixth premised , that the covenant of abraham was the same in substance under the law , and 〈◊〉 the gospel ; and that baptism ●●come in the place of circumcision , and therefore infants of confederates are now to be baptized , as thou they were circumcised , they both being outward seals of the same covenant in substance , pag. 3 , 4. so that in his judgement , title to circumcision then was , and to baptism now is , rightly inferred from interest in the covenant : which [ the very thing here : affirmed by the synod . what then doth the reverend author here say ? why , that which he saith , is this , that men must be duely qualified before they may be admired to covenant with the lord and his church for themselves and their children — and , that the primitive churches looked for this qualification in the 〈…〉 admitted into church-membership — which doth not at all enervate what the synod here saith . for , suppose men must be duely qualified before they be admitted to covenant and membership , doth this prove , that interest in the covenant is not the ground of title to the seal ? it seems not to prove it at all ; and the reason is , because this speaks not to the thing in question , but to another point . for , whether interest in the covenant do prove right to the seal , is one thing ; and how men should be qualified afore they be admitted to covenant , is another ; and the former being that which is here affirmed by the synod , it cannot be overthrown by what the reverend author affirmeth concerning the latter , except we shall say , that a thing may be sufficiently confuted by speaking to another point , when one doth not speak ad idem . whether the parents of the children here spoken of , be duely qualified for covenant , and unto membership , is not the thing here in question , nor spoken of by the synod ; but here is the thing they affirm , that interest in the covenant gives title to baptism — besides , suppose the qualifications here mentioned by the reverend author , of being " s●ints , sanctified , and faithfull in christ iesus , and the rest , suppose these be requisite in men that are to be admitted to covenant and membership , yet this concerns not the parents of the children here spoken of , because they are not now to be admitted into the covenant and church membership , but are therein already , and have been long afore now , even from their minority o● birth ; and therefore this also is another reason , why that which is here spoken by the reverend author is beside the question . further , whereas the synod here addeth , that a member , or one in covenant as such , is the subject of baptism , was further cleared in propos. 1. the reverend author answereth , that the light which that proposition holdeth forth for clearing this , is in one clause , which is here omitted , viz. [ according to scripture ] they that according to scripture are members of the visible church , are the subjects of baptism . ans. then let that clause be here added , which was there expressed by the synod in that first proposition : if then the reverend author do consent thereto , as it may seem by his manner of alledging it , that he doth ; then what the synod here affirmeth , is gained , viz. that interest in the covenant is the ground of title to baptism : and indeed the synod gave five arguments for clearing of that first proposition , which the reverend author doth not there meddle withall , much less remove ; and therefore they still stand in force . only it may be observed , that whereas here he seems to consent to the proposition , if that term [ according to scripture ] be added , yet when he spake to that first proposition , he consented not thereto , unless this term [ according to scripture ] might be changed into this [ according to christs ordinance ] otherwise he could not then concur with that proposition , and this term in it , though now it seems he doth : but whether it be expressed the one way or the other , with the term of [ members [ according to scripture ] or [ according to christs ordinance , ] if it be granted that such members are the subjects of baptisme , then the doctrine of the synod in this point is granted . as for what is here said to that proposition , if this term [ according to scripture ] be not omitted , but taken in , viz. that according to scripture , the covenant was differently administred in diff●rent times of the church ; which different manner of administration is here , pag. 22. and in the tenth position , which is here cited , said to be this in sum , that the church was once in families , or domestical ; under moses , national ; and under christ , congregational . ans. vvhat if all this were granted ? is there any thing in this ( for we would willingly keep to the question ) to overthrow the synods f●●st proposition , or their saying that is here under debate , viz. that interest in the covenant is the main ground of title to baptism ? it seems nothing at all . for , if according to scripture there have been different administrations of the covenant in different times , and that the church was heretofore domestical , afterward national , and now congregational ; all this may be granted , and yet it may be a truth that is here said , that interest in the covenant is the main ground of title to baptism . that these children are in covenant , the synod saith , appears ; 1. because if the parent be in covenant , the child is so also : but the parents in question are in covenant . to this the reverend author answereth , that if this being in covenant , be understood of being in it according to g●spel-rules , and that the childrens being in covenant , be understood of infant children , or children in minority , then the proposition is true , or else it must be denied . ans. concerning the one of these particulars , viz. of being in covenant according to gospel-rules , it may be granted that it is so to be understood , and that it is not to be imagined , that the synod meant it any otherwise . but for the other particular , that the children in covenant are only infants or children in minority , this is a limitation that needs further consideration , and will be spoken to afterward . whereas the synod , to prove the parents in question to be in covenant , alledgeth , that they were once in covenant , and never since discovenanted ; the former , because else they had not warrantably been baptized ; and the latter , because they have not in any way of god been discovenanted , cast out , or cut off from their covenant-relation . the reverend author in his answer hereunto , saith , that they are discovenanted , by not performing that whereunto they were engaged by the covenant , — for which he alledgeth rom. 2.25 . ans. 1. it seems then the covenant doth not only reach unto children during their minority , but also when they are become adult ; for else how could they when adult , be faulty in not performing that whereunto the covenant engageth ? can men be faulty for not performing covenant-engagements , when they are not comprehended in the covenant ? this seems not possible : therefore here seems to be a conc●ssion that the covenant reacheth further then to infancy or minority , and that they who were in covenant in their infancy by meanes of their parents covenanting for them , are also in that covenant when they are become adult . 2. nor is it clear , that m●ns not performing what the covenant requireth of them , doth forthwith discovenant them , if by being discovenanted , be meant their not being in that church-relation in which they were before , for god is wont to be patient , and long-suffering toward them that are in covenant with him , and to bear with them long afore be give them a bill of divorce , as it is said in nehem. 9.30 . many years didst thou forbear them ; and therefore it may seem more rigour then the word alloweth , to think or say , that such as were in covenant with god in their infancy or minority , are forthwith fallen out of that estate , if they do not , as soon as ever they become adult , perform what that covenant requireth . the long-suffering of god will not allow us so to judge , unless we had more clear warrant for such judgement : nor doth the text alledged , viz. rom. 2 25. prove any such thing ; but when it is there said , thy circumcision is made uncircumcision , the meaning is it shall not profit thee at all in such a state , as to eternal benefit : and so baptism may be said in such case to be no baptism ; and covenant , and church-relation , to be no covenant , no church-relation , i. e. not to yield any such profit in that estate : but yet if such should afterward be brought to repentance and new-obedience , would any say , that now such persons must be circumcised again , or baptized again , as if the former , in respect of the external act , were become null ? we suppose this could not be said justly , though in respect of any profit to their souls , their circumcision and baptism in their former estate was as none : and so we may say their covenant and church relation is as none , in respect of any spiritual saving benefit to their souls , if they perform not what the covenant bindes them unto ; and yet it can no more be said , that in respect of their church-relation , and external visible state , they are not in the church , or not in the covenant , then in the other particulars it can be said , that they are not circumcised , or not baptized . it is one thing to be in the covenant , and in the church , in respect of external state , and another thing to enjoy all the spiritual and eternal benefits of such a relation ; and though this latter be the portion of none but such as come to be truly regenerate , yet the other is , and so continues , the right of all that have once had it , untill in some way of god they be cut off from it , and so deprived thereof . the synod having said , that persons once in covenant are not broken off from it , according to scripture , sare for notorious sins , and incorrigibleness therein , which is not the case of these parents . the reverend author answereth , that if they break off themselves , by breaking the covenant which was sealed by baptism in their infancy or minority , they thereby deprive themselves of the benefits and priviledges of the covenant , and in such case are to be looked at like those in 1 joh. 2.19 . ans. if by breaking off themselves , were meant no more , but that they do this meritoriously , i. e. that by their sin they deserve to be broken off , then it may be granted , that in this sense persons may ( though not that these do ) break off themselves from their covenant-relation ; and so also may persons that have been in full communion , even these by their sins may thus break off themselves , in which sense it is said , hos. 13.9 . o israel , thou hast destroyed thy self , i. e. that their sins were the procuring or meritorious cause of their destruction . but if hereby be meant , that the persons spoken of do break off themselves from their church-relation not onely meritoriously , but actually and really , then it may be justly questioned , whether church-members can thus break off themselves . sure israel did not thus destroy themselves , because all judgement and punishment is from the lord , whose work it is to kill , and make alive , to wound , and to heal , to create peace and evil ; so that there is no evil in the city , but the lord doth it , even the lord doth all these things , deut. 32.39 . isa. 45.7 . amos 3.6 . and therefore , if breaking off from church-estate , be an evil of punishment , men cannot in this sense break off themselves without god. besides , men cannot of themselves alone bring in themselves into the church , but there is requisite the consent of the church thereto ; and therefore if they cannot , of themselves alone , bring in themselves into the church , how is it credible that of themselves alone they should break themselves off from the church ? one would think , that such as cannot of themselves alone open the door for their entrance into the church , should no more be able to open it for their going out . and further , it seems not rational , that delinquents in the church should have it in their power , whether they will be censured with church-censure , or no ; and yet it must be so , if men that have been church-members may un-member themselves at their pleasure : for sure it is , church censures cannot be dispensed to any , but to such as are within the church , 1 cor. 5.12 . if therefore a church-member , suppose one that hath been in full communion , shall commit the most enormous and scandalous wickedness that can be named ; yet if men may break off themselves from church-relation at their pleasure , such an one may have it in his choice whether he will be censured , or no : for , if he can but say , i am no member of your church , nor will be , but do fors●ke the church-relation in which i was , it shall then be in the power of such a notorious delinquent to bind the churches hands from censuring him , and so make the rule of christ to be of none effect , which saith , d●liver such a man to satan , 1 cor. 5. which makes it very improbable , that men can of themselves break off themselves from the covenant and church-relation . as for them in 1 ioh. 2.19 . of whom it is said , they went out from us , but they were not of us , &c. why may not this going o●t be understood of a local departure , or of a departing from the company , and communion of the saints , and such duties and acts of love as that church-relation requireth , rather then of a going out from the relation it self ? it is plain , men may of themselves ( if they have no more grace ) neglect the duties which their nearest relations require , and depart from them in respect of place and duties ; as david and iob were thus forsaken by their kindred , b●ethren , and mothers children , &c. psal. 38.11 . & 69.8 . iob 19.13 , 14. but doth this prove , that those brethren and mothers children , who thus neglected the duties which their relation required , were now no longer in the relation at all ? were these brethren and mothers children , now become mothers children no longer , nor brethren any longer , because now they were gone from the duties which they should have performed ? this doth not follow at all : how then doth it follow , that those who wen● out from the saints in respect of place and performance of duties , were thereby gone out from their church-relation ? they might by this departure of theirs deserve to be cut off by church-censure from their church-estate ; but that by this their departing they did cut off , or break off themselves from their church-estate , any otherwise then meritoriously , doth not appear . the synod having said , that the parents in question are in covenant , because the tenor of the covenant is to the faithful and their seed after them in their generations , gen. 17.7 . the reverend author in his answer hereto , pag. 24. saith , that the sea●ing of this covenant to the posterity of isaac and jacob by circumcision , was to continue throughout their generations , till the coming of christ ; and that the covenant is for the substance the same to us as it was to them , it being ●stablished by the blood of christ , luk. 1.69 , 72.73 heb. 13.20 . ans. here is then a consent to the synods argument , and the proof of it : for , if the covenant be for substance the same to us as it was to them , and was then to the faithful and their seed in their generations ; doth it not then follow , that these parents being the seed of the faithful , are hereby proved to be in the covenant ? this seems a plain granting of the synods saying , and of their proof of it . whereas the synod said , that the parents in q●estion are keepers of the covenant , because they are not fors●ker● , and rejecters of the god , and covenant of their fathers ; and alledged for this deut. 29.25 , 26. 2 king. 17.15 — 20. 2 chron. 7.22 . deu. 7.10 . the reverend author answereth , that keepers of the covenant , the parents in question are not ; for though they are not such forsakers , and rejecters of it , as they who are spoken of in the texts alledged ; yet besides that gross idolatry , there is a spiritual idolatry in scandalous covetousness , col. 3.5 . worldly-mindedness , whereby men forsake and reject god and his covenant to serve the world — and such may they be who answer all the terms of their fifth proposition , externally and visibly . ans. now herein is a marvellous thing , and not easie to be understood ; for the proposition saith expresly , that the persons spoken of are not scandalous in life ; and the answer is , that men may answer that , and all the other terms of the proposition externally , and visibly , and yet be guilty of scandalous cove●ousness ; and worldly-mindedness . now that men may be not scandalous in life , and yet guilty of scandalous covetousness ; guilty of scandalous covetousness and worldly-mindedness , and yet not scandalous in life ; these things seem contradictory and inconsistent , c●piat qui capere porest . it seems to us more rational to think and say , that though it be possible for men to be not scandalous in life , and yet to be guilty of worldly-mindedness , and other secret sins , and heart-wickednes● ; yet if they answer this and all the terms of the proposition , it seems not improbable but they may be truely godly , and sincere , sith they are not only not scandalous in life , but do give up themselves and their children to the lord , and subject themselves to the government of christ in his church ; and all this not ignorantly , but with understanding ; not sl●ghtly , but solemnly and publickly before the church : for , doth not all this make their sincerity hopeful ? we conceive it may . but that they should do all this , and in such manner as is said , and yet for all this to be so far from probability of grace , as to be forsakers and rej●cters of god and his covenant , to serve the vvorld , and this not onely secretly , and in heart , but so outwardly , and visibly , as to be scandalous therein ; how this can be , we must confess we do not understand . to that of the synod , where they say , that the parents in question do not put in any barre to hinder their children from baptism : and that this is plain from the words of the proposition , where they are described to be such as understand the doctrine of fai●h , &c. the reverend author in his answer , saith that notwithstanding this , the parents may put in a barre to hinder their children from bap●●sm , because a man may do and be all that is required in that proposition , and yet have no faith in christ , but be an unregenerate person — ans. it is one thing what a man may do , and yet be an unregenerate person really and in the sight of god , who knoweth the heart ; and another thing to be visibly so in the view of men , and in their rationall judgement : for ▪ it is granted , that a man may be and do outwardly and visibly all that the proposition mentioneth , yea and all that can be named further , and yet be really , and in the sight of god , an unregenerate person ; but yet this needs not to hinder his childe from baptism before the church : for such was the case of iudas , ananias and sapphira , simon magus , and others , who had a name to live , and yet were dead , rev. 3.1 . and yet for all this deadness and unregeneracy of theirs , the church did warrantably admit them and theirs to baptism , because visibly , and for ought that the church could discern , they were regenerate , sith de occultis non judicat ecclesia . but that a man may do , and be all that the proposition mentioneth , and yet be unregenerate , and without faith , not onely in the sight of god , but also visibly , and to the churches judgement ; this seems not very probable . even one of the particulars which the proposition mentioneth , viz. that of [ giving up themselves to the lord ] is spoken of by the apostle , as a token of the grace of god bestowed on the churches of macedonia , 2 cor. 8.1 , 5. and when the synod mentioneth not onely this particular ▪ but five or six others in the proposition , must we for all this say , that men may do this , and all that is mentioned in that proposition , and yet have no grace of god bestowed on them , but be , even quoad nos , without all faith in christ , and in an unregenerate estate , and so put in a barre to hinder the baptism of their children ? we cannot but fear such judgement is more rigorous then charity will allow ; for the scripture tells us , that the tree is known by its fruit , mat. 12. & 7. and , that even a childe is known by his doings , whether his work be pure , and whether it be right , prov. 20.11 . and therefore when there are so many things for the parents in question , as are mentioned in the proposition , and nothing appearing to the contrary , we think such parents , having been members of the church in their minority , may justly be looked at as those who do not put in any barre to hinder their children from baptism . the reverend author further saith , pag. 25. though these parents are not scandalous in life , but solemnly own the covenant before the church , wherein they give up themselves and their children to the lord , and subject themselves to the government of christ in the church , yet all these may be affirmed of many who have a form of godliness , and deny the power thereof : from such paul warned timothy to turn away , 2 tim. 3.5 . ans. but is it credible , that those in 2 tim. 3. could answer all that is said in this proposition ? were they not scandalous in life , but did give up themselves to the lord , and subject themselves to the government of christ in his church ? what then means the many scandalous sins mentioned ver . 2 , 3 , 4. and what was this denying the power of godliness that is charged upon them ? it is most like it was such a denying as that in tit. 1.16 . where they are said to profess to know god , but by works to deny him , being abominable , disobedient , and to every good work reprobate ; and if so , then they were far from answering what is said of these parents : for , these parents are not scandalous in life ; but those the apostle speaks of are scandalous , and abominable for wickedness : these parents are commendable for sundry good things in them , and good duties done by them ; whereas those the apostle speaks of are not so , but disobedient , and to every good work reprobate . and when the apostle bids timothy , turn away from such ; doth not this simply that they were scandalous persons , and apparently wicked ? it is not likely that the apostle would else have commanded to turn from them , sith he himself did so lovingly converse with so many sorts of men , that he might gain them to the lord , 1 cor. 9.19 , 20 , &c. and gives commandment to receive the weak , rom. 14.1 . and to instruct with meekness such as oppose themselves , if god peradventure may give them repentance , &c. 2 tim. 2.25 . which things do strongly argue , that those whom he commands in 2 tim. 3. to turn away from , were not such as are described in the proposition , but far worse , being apparently and grosly wicked . for otherwise , how could the apostle in commanding to turn away from them , be cleared from direct contradicting both his own doctrine and his own practice ? but let those in 2 tim. 3. whom he commands to turn away from , be understood of persons grosly vicious and scandalous , and then the appearance of contradiction is easily cleared , and so the parents in question cleared from being such persons , as must be turned away from . so much for defence of the first argument . but before the reverend author proceed to the next , he is something large in suggesting , that the elders do admit persons into membership , who are not qualified according to what is said in this proposition , so that if their doctrine in this matter were right , yet it is here pag. 25 , 26. frequently intimated that their practice is otherwise . for , saith he , they cannot prove that all adult persons whom they admit into personal and immediate membership , are such as the proposition describeth : for , i demand , do they all understand the doctrine of faith ? what course do they take to know it ? are all the adult persons , whom they admit into membership , such as the proposition describes ? do they take a right course to know they are such ? that they are not scandalous in life , &c. ans. the proposition speaks of such as were admitted in minority , and therefore what is done towards these when they are adult , is not fitly called admitting into membership . for , as mr. cotton saith , it is one thing to enter into the church , ( for that agreeth to such as were sometime without ) another thing to speak of the infants of believers , who were never out of the church , and so cannot be said to enter into it . grounds and ends , &c. pag. 132 , 133. and therefore it is a mistake to say or think of such elders , as concurred with the synod , that what is done by them towards the children of church-members , being now adult , is an admitting of them into membership , for this those children had afore they were adult , and therefore they are not now admitted into it . but to leave this : why should the reverend author suggest such a thing into the mindes of his readers , that the elders in their practice do differ from their doctrine , and teach one thing in the synod , and in their practice do contrary ? were it not more suitable to love ( which thinketh not evil , 1 cor. 13. nor receiveth a reproach against ones neighbour , psal. 15. ) to endeavour to bring such elders , as are thus faulty ( if indeed there be any ) to repentance for their sailing therein , rather then to give occasion of mis-apprehensions against them , by writing thus of them ? it may well be called misapprehension ; for there are few of the elders , in comparison , that have yet put the children of church-members to a publick owning of the covenant , afore the time of their admission to full communion : and for those few that have done it , as this was not an admitting of them into membership , for that they had before ; so it would be hard to prove , that when this was done , that their infants might be baptized , which is the case the synod speaks of ; it would be hard ( we say ) to prove that the parents , who so did , were not qualified according as the fifth proposition describeth . and therefore to give occasion of other thoughts , not only against some few of the elders , but even of all , for what is here intimated , is not of some onely , but of all alike without difference ; what may be thought of this , we leave to the further consideration of the reverend author . to the second argument of the synod , that the children of the parents in question , are either children of the covenant , or strangers from the covenant ; either holy , or unclean ; either within the church , or without ; either such as have god for their god , or are without god in the world : but he that considers the proposition , will not affirm the latter concerning these children ; and the former being granted , infers their right to baptism . to this the reverend author answereth , that the more he considers the proposition , the less he findes in it to evince the former , and the more to conclude the latter . ans. now the latter is , that the children of the parents in question , are strangers from the covenant , not holy , but unclean , and without the church , and such as are without god in the world : and if the reverend author finde so much to conclude thus of the children of church-members , which members understand the doctrine of faith , and publickly assent thereto ; are not scandalous in life , but thus and further qualified , as in the proposition is expressed : if he finde much to conclude thus of these children , if he be had expressed any part thereof , it might have been taken into consideration ; but nothing being expressed , how can it ? a meer contrary affirmation , how can it go for a sufficient confutation ? as for that which he addeth , that if a man have no more then the proposition holds forth , he may be a stranger from the covenant , unclean , and without the church , &c. is not this spoken of grown persons , and therefore how is the synods argument hereby touched , which speaketh of little children ? nor is it easily proved , that a grown person , who was admitted in minority , and is now qualified as the proposition expresseth , that such a grown person is now a stranger from the covenant , and without the church , and without god in t●● world , and this is respect of his external state , or being in the church-visible ; we see not that this is proved at all . for , as for rom. 9.6 , 7 , 8. which is here alledged , they are not all israel , which are of israel , &c. the text may prove , that they are not all elected of god , or sincere believers , who in regard of external relation are members of the visible church ; and this will be easily granted : but for membership in the church-visible , of which is our question , that text hath nothing in it at all to prove , that men who were members of this church in their minority , being now qualified as the synod expresseth , that these are now without such membership and externall state ; this is not proved at all by this text. for , if we shall so say , we shall make the apostle to contradict himself ; for , of these very persons and people , of whom ●e saith , they are not all israel , not all children , not all the children of god , &c. of these very persons and people he said , ver . 4. that they are israelites , to whom pertaineth the adoption , and the glory , and the covenants , and the giving of the law , and the service of god , and the promises ; that is , they were gods adopted children in regard of external covenant , and were members of the church-visible , and yet these were not all israel , that is , they were not all gods israel by election and spiritual regeneration . thus the apostles words are easily reconciled . but how shall they be reconciled , if the latter , as well as the former , be meant of the church-visible ? can they be israelites , and not israel , in the same respect ? can they in respect of external state be partakers of adoption , gods covenant and promises , &c. and so be church-members , and yet in regard of the same estate , be no church-members at all , nor in the church-covenant at all ? it is not easie to conceive how this can be ; and therefore the words in rom. 9.6 , 7 , 8. are not fitly applied to prove that men , who were church-members in their minority , may be qualified as the fifth proposition expresseth , and yet now be strangers from the covenant , and without the church , in respect of their visible and externall state . whereas the synod for a third argument , saith , that to deny this proposition , would be 1. to stratten the grace of christ in the gospel-dispensation , and to make the church in new-testament-times , in worse case , relating to their children successively , then were the iews of old . 2. to render the iews , when they shall be called , in a worse condition then under the legal administration : contrary to jer. 30.20 . ezek 37.25 , 26. 3. to deny the application of the initiatory seal to such as regularly stand in the church and covenant , to whom the mosaical dispensation , nay the first institution appointed it to be applied , gen. 17.9 , 10. joh. 7.22 , 23. 4. to break the covenant , by denying the initiatory seal to those that are in covenant , gen. 17.9 , 10 , 14. to this the reverend author answereth , that the contrary to all and every one of these is true : for , 1. it enlargeth the grace of christ in the gospel-dispensation , by shewing that christian churches are in a more spiritual and gracious frame then the iews of old were , under legal dispensation , &c. ans. suppose that christian churches be in a more spiritual and gracious frame then were the jews under the legal dispensation , yet if then such parents as the proposition describes , might have the initiatory seal applied to their infants , and now may not ; how can it be denied but that now the christian churches are in a worse case , relating to their children successively , then the church of the jews was ? for then such parents might have their children circumcised , but now they may not have them baptized , if this proposition be denied . and though the grace of christ may be now enlarged in other respects , yet in respect of children it is not enlarged , but str●●t●ed , by denying this proposition : except we shall say , that for parents to have the seal of the covenant applied to them and their children , is no testimony of gospel-grace at all , which cannot be said truly ; and therefore the synods argument in this particular stands good . 2. saith the reverend author , it declareth that the state of the iews , when they shall be called , will be far better then it was under legal dispensations — for under the law their light and holiness was defective — but when they shall be called , they shall have a farre greater measure of light and holiness then was to be found in former ages — ans. suppose this be granted , the question is not about their holiness and 〈◊〉 , but about their children , of whom it is evident , that if the parents were qualified as this proposition expresseth , those children might then be circumcised : and the texts alledged , viz. 〈◊〉 30.20 . ezek. 37 25 , 26. do shew , that when they shall be called , their children shall be in as good estate as formerly : but how can this be , if the parents may be qualified as is expressed , and yet may not have their children baptized ? is not this a rendring of them , in respect of their children , in a worse condition then formerly ? for the third particular , the reverend author answereth , that the dent●ll of the proposition doth not deny ( in sum ) what the synod saith it doth , but the contrary . ans. in what the synod here saith , there are three particulars contained or included : 1. that the mosaicall dispensation , and first institution of the initiatory seal , did appoint that seal to be applied to such as stood regularly in the church and covenant . 2. that the children in question d● regularly stand in the church and covenant . 3. that the deniall of the proposition , doth deny the application of the sea● to such as the mosaicall dispensation appointed it to be applied unto . of these particulars , the first cannot be denied ; for it is undeniably proved by the texts alledged , viz. gen. 17.9 , 10. joh 7.22 , 23. and the third particular is plain of it self : all the doubt therefore must be about the second , viz. whether the children in question do regularly stand in the church and covenant : but for this the synod hath given divers proofs in their first and second arguments ; which proofs we do not see taken off by what the reverend author hath said thereto . the fourth particular is answered by a plain deniall of what there the synod affirmeth , viz. that to deny the proposition , doth not break gods covenant , by denying the initiatory seal to those that are in covenant . ans. yet nothing can be more plain , then that denying circumcision to them that were in the covenant , was a breaking of gods covenant ; for it is expresly so called , gen. 17.9 . 10 , 14. if therefore the children spoken of be in the covenant , how can the deniall of baptism to them be any other then is said ? and that they are in the covenant , the synod gave sundry proofs in their first and second arguments . so much for defence of the third argument . the fourth argument of the synod for confirming this fifth proposition , is this : c●nfederate visible believers , though but in the lowest degree such , are to have their children baptized : but the parents in question are such , at least in some degree . for , 1. charity may observe in them sundry positive arguments for it , witness the terms of the proposition , and nothing evident against it . to this the reverend author answereth , by denying the minor in the argument , and affirming the contrary to the first reason here mentioned ; viz. that all that is said in the proposition , is no sufficient ground for charity to account these parents to be believers in the least degree . ans. but if there be sundry positive arguments for charity thus to judge of them , and nothing evident to the contrary , as the synod argueth ; why then should we judge otherwise of them ? when such church-members , as were admitted in their minority , do understand the doctrine of faith , and publickly assent thereto , are not scandalous in life , but do solemnly own the covenant , wherein they give up themselves to the lord , &c. is all this nothing for charity to go upon in accounting them believers ? no , not in the least degree ? we conceive charity wants sufficient ground to judge otherwise . see more in defence of the first argument . but , saith the reverend author , let them show how faith was w●ough● , and how it work● in them , and then the church will have ground for their charitable judgement concerning their fitness , &c. ans. what proof is there , that except this be done , there can be no ground for the charitable judgement that is mentioned ? sure it is , there is no mention that such a thing was performed by the eunuch , nor required of him by philip , acts 8. and yet he was baptized upon profession of his faith in christ , though there is no mention , that to shew how his faith was wrought in him , was either done by him , or required of him : and therefore we see no reason to the contrary , but that when that is done which is mentioned in the proposition , there may be ground for charity to account them believers , though they come not up to what the reverend author requireth , of declaring how their faith was wrought in them . 2. the synod saith , the children of the godly , though qualified but as the persons in the proposition , are said to be faithfull , tit. 1.6 . the reverend author answereth , nor are the children of the godly , qualified but as in the proposition , said to be faithfull in tit. 1. so his answer is an express deniall of what the synod here saith . but to say the children in tit. 1. are not called faithfull , is directly to gainsay the text , which doth exp●esly so call them : and that these children that are called faithful in tit. 1. were qualified above what the proposition requireth , is not proved at all . for the text that calls them faithful , saith no more of them , but that they are not accused of riot , or unruly . and if this be sufficient for accounting them faithful ▪ those whom the proposition describeth may much more be so accounted ; because they are not only free from vnruliness and riot , but partakers of sundry other good qualifications , which do amount further . 3. whereas the synod saith , children of the covenant , as the parents in question are , have frequently the beginnings of grace wrought in them in younger years , at scripture and experience shew . instance joseph , samuel , &c. hence this sort of persons shewing nothing to the contrary , are in charity , or to ecclesiastical reputation , visible believers . the reverend author answereth , that the parents in question were indeed children of the covenant in their infancy or minority , but if when they are adult , they do not covenant for themselves and their seed , being fitly qualified , they cannot then be fi●ly called children of the covenant , but transgressors of the covenant , and breakers of it . ans. 1. if they be breakers of it , then sure they are comprehended in it : for , how can men break the covenant , wh●ch they are not in ? therefore , as it is here expresly confessed , that they were children of the covenant in their minori●y , so the same is by consequence confessed of them being adult ; for otherwise , how could they be then said to break the covenant ? 2. if the parents in question were children of the covenant in their infancy and minority , as the reverend author acknowledgeth they were , this suits well enough with the purpose and scope of the synod in this place , which is expresly said to be this , that such children have frequently the beginnings of grace wrought in them in their younger years ; and such as had grace begun in them in their younger years , why should not charity think it is there still , when nothing appears to the contrary ? for he that once begins that good work of grace , is not wont to forsake that work of his own hands , but to perfect it untill the day of christ , psal. 138.8 . phil. 1.6 . further , saith the reverend author , this argument is fall●cious , because it argues from some particulars , to infer a general affirmatively . some children of the covenant have had the beginnings of grace wrought in them in their younger years , therefore all persons of this sort , &c. if the reverend author had expressed the synods argument as they expressed it , it would not then have appeared so fallacious , as the alteration of their words may make it . for , whereas they said , children of the covenant have frequently the beginnings of grace wrought in them in their younger years , for which they produced eight or nine instances from scripture : all these instances , and that frequency , for proof of which they were alledged ; are now all left out , and in stead thereof it is rendred some children of the covenant , &c. and whereas the inference which the synod makes is thus expressed , viz. hence this sort of persons &c. now the term all , which was not in before , is expresly put in thus , all persons of this sort , &c. which alteration may indeed obscure the strength of the argument . but let it be reduced to what it first was , and then let the judicious reader consider whether it be fall●cious , or firme , whether there be weakness or weight in it . thus it was ; if children of the covenant have frequently the beginnings of grace wrought in them in their younger years , then this sort of persons shewing nothing to the contrary , are in charity , or to ecclesiastical reputation , visible believers : but so it is . ergo. the assumption here is manifestly proved by those many instances in scripture alledged and by experience ; and the consequence we hope is not fall●cious , but found and good : for if it be frequently thus , why should not charity believe it is thus in this sort of persons , where nothing appears to the contrary . 4. the synod having said , that they that are regularly in the church , ( as the parents in question be ) are visible saints in the account of scripture : for the church is in scripture ▪ account 〈◊〉 company of saints , 1 cor. 14.33 . & 1.2 . the reverend author answereth , that both the assertion and the proof of it are to be denyed . the assertion is not true , that the parents in question are regularly in the church : infants , and children in minority of confederate believers , are in the church by their parents covenanting for them , 1 cor. 7.14 . but parents are not so , till &c. ans. it is here again confessed , that infants and children in minority , are regularly in the church , but not so when they are adult and come to be parents : but of their continuing in the church , notwithstanding their coming to be adult , something hath been said before , and more may in the sixth argument , partic. 3. but whereas it is said , " the proof is to be denied , and is not apposite : we conceive , it cannot be denied to be very apposite for the purpose for which the synod doth alledge it , which is to p●ove , that they that are regularly in the church , are in scripture account visible saints ; and the words of the texts alledged , are so plain and apposi●e for this purpose , as we conceive nothing can be more . whether the parents in question be such , or no ; regularly in the church , and so saints , or not , is another thing , for which we conceive much hath and may be said : but the texts alledged were not produced by the synod for that purpose , and therefore though they be not plain for proof of that ▪ yet if they be plain and apt enough for the purpose for which they were produced by the synod , that may s●ffice , though they prove not this other , to which the reverend author doth apply them . 5. saith the synod , being in covenant and baptized , they have faith and repentance indefinitely given to them in the promise , and sealed up in baptism , deut. 30.6 . which continues valid , and so a valid testimony for them , while they do not rej●ct it . to this the reverend author in his answer makes mention of a distinction between the grace of the covenant , and the covenant of grace , in regard of externall means ; between the elect , in whom god works the grace promised in the covenant so powerfully , that they shall not reject it , and the rest who have the outward means of grace till they reject them , as did esau — and concludes , that such as reject the offers of grace , and living under the means of grace , do remain unbelievers , cannot be said to have faith and repentance undefinitely given to them in the promise . ans. but is there any proof of the contrary to what the synod affirmeth ? it seems none at all . for , when the synod saith , the covenant which promiseth faith and repentance is a valid testimony for them , while they do not reject it ; and the reverend author saith , that such as do reject the offers of grace , have not faith and repentance given to them in the promise : these are not contrary , nor at all inconsistent . for the synod never said nor meant , that the grace of faith and repentance are given by the covenant to them that are breakers of the covenant , and reject the offers of grace , and living under the means of grace , do still remain unbelievers : the synod never said , that the grace of faith and repentance are given to these by the promise ; but by that word , 〈◊〉 they do not reject it , do plainly imply the contrary . and therefore what the synod here saith , may be sound and good , for all that the reverend author alledgeth . if their doctrine here be not right , then it must be said , that the covenant , in which god promiseth to circumcise the hearts of his people , and of their seed , deut. 30.6 . is no promise that god will give them faith and repentance , nor any valid testimony for them that he will do it , though they for their parts do not reject it . and we suppose none will say this . what may be said of them , who when adult , are breakers of the covenant , and do reject the offers of grace , is one thing ; and what may be hoped and said of them who do not so reject , is another . the synod speaks of these latter , and the reverend author of the former ; and therefore the one cannot overthrow the other . the synod concludes this fourth argument , by adding as followeth ; viz. yet it doth not necessarily follow , that these persons are immediately fit for the lords supper ; the reason rendred , is , because though in a latitude of expression they are to be accounted believers , or in numero fidelium , as even infants in covenant are ; yet they may want that ability to examine themselves , and that speciall exercise of faith , which is requisite to that ordinance , as was said upon propos. 4. to this the reverend author saith , 1. if any man speak , let him speak as the oracles of god , 1 pet. 4.11 . the new-testament no where alloweth that latitude of expression , to call men believers , who , &c. ans. though it be the duty of all , if they speak , to speak as the oracles of god , yet it doth not follow from thence , that none may have the term believers applied to them , except the term be found so applied in the new testament : for then the name trinity , sacrament , and many other , would be unlawful , as not being found in the new testament , no nor in the old ; yet we suppose the reverend author would not count the use of these terms unlawful . how often doth himself use the terms of par ratio , personall membership , mediate , and immediate members , and others , and yet they are terms not found in all the scripture : and therefore if the term believers be not found applied in the new testament to the persons spoken of , yet if the thing it self be found , and the matter be so delivered as becomes the oracles of god , that is , with such reverence , purity , &c. as is meet , we suppose that rule of speaking as the oracles of god , is not violated , though the term it self were not so used in the new testament , nor yet in the old. and for the thing it self , the synod hath given four or five arguments to prove , that the persons spoken of are visible believers ; which arguments we do not see satisfied by what the reverend author saith thereto . 2. the synod having said , that the persons spoken of may be counted in numero fidelium , as even infants in covenant are . the reverend author answereth , they cannot be so accounted , because infants are looked at onely in the parents covenant , being not capable of covenanting for themselves , as men are : so that there is not par ratio between them . ans. though infants be not capable of covenanting for themselves , as men are , yet their covenanting , or being in covenant , is not the thing here intended by the synod , but their being be●●evers , or in numero fi●●lium ; of which the reverend author saith nothing . but the thing the synod here intimateth , is this , that as even infa●ts in covenan● are counted believers , or in numero fi●elium , so may the parents spoken of . 3. whereas the synod saith , they may want that ability to examine themselves , and that speciall exercise of faith which is requisite to that ordinance . the reverend author answereth , that visible want of this ability , and of this exercise of faith , doth argue a visible want of that faith which is to be examined and exercised , and is a just barre to the admi●tance of such into immediate and personall church-membership , as well as to the lords supper . ans. admittance into membership is not here spoken of at all by the synod : for the persons spoken of , are counted by the synod to have been in the state of membership long afore now , even in their infancy or minority ; and therefore if the want of the ability mentioned , were a just barre to such admittance , yet this concerns not the persons spoken of . but is this which is here affirmed certain and clear , that want of the ability and exercise spoken of , doth argue want of the very being of faith ? may there not be the being and truth of that grace , even there where the exercise of it is much wanting ? plain it is , that our saviour blames his disciples , and peter , for the want of the exercise of faith , mat. 8. & 14. mark 4. luke 8.25 . and yet it were hard to say , that the being of faith was now wanting in them : for then we must say , either that faith once had , may afterwards be lost and gone , or else that these disciples before this time never had faith ; neither of which , we conceive , can be said truely . how plain is it , that some for their weakness and small ability in grace , and the exercise of it , are compared to a bruised r●ed , and to smoaking flax , mat. 12 20. and yet when it is said , christ will not break● such reed● , nor quench such flax , it appeareth thereby , that notwithstanding all this weakness , there may be the ●e●ng and truth of the thing in such souls . and for ability to examine themselves , cannot this be wanting ▪ but the want of the being of faith must be inferred thence ? what shall we then say to souls in such a case as heman's , psal. 88. who complains , that gods w●●th lay hard upon him , and that he was shut up , and could not come forth ; that god seemed to cast off his soul , and to hide his face from him ; that gods fierce w●ath went over him ; that gods terrours had cut him off ; and that hereby he was as distracted , and this even from his youth up ▪ no● can we think that in such case he was able to examine himself ? can distracted persons do so ? it seems not : and yet this heman was not without the gra●e of fa●●● for all this . and therefore we cannot say that wan● of ability to examine one's self , or of the ●●eciall exercise of faith , doth alwayes argue the want of that faith which is to be examined and ●xerci●ed : and therefore what the synod here saith may still stand , that ●he persons spoken ●f may be believers , and yet want that abi●ity to examine themselves , and that speciall exercise of faith which is requisite to that ordinance of the lords supper . so much for d●fence of the fourth argument for confirming the fifth proposition . the fifth argument of the synod for confirming this fifth proposition ▪ is this : that the deniall of baptism to the children in question , hath a dangerous tendency in it to irreligion and apostacy ; because to deny them to have any part in the lord , is the way to cause them to cease from fearing the lord ; witness josh. 22.24 , 25 , 27. but to deny them , and so their children successively , to be in the church , or members of i● , and so to have right to baptism , is to deny them to have any part in the lord ; and therefore it tends to cause a ceasing from fearing the lord , and so tends to irreligion and apostacy . now what saith the reverend author to this in his reply ? that which he saith , is 1. the children in question , being children of parents who are not in full communion with the church , if such be denied to have any part in the lord , it is the degenerate parents fault , and not the churches . 2. the children in question are not children of the church , for the parents have cut off the entail of the covenant from themselves and their seed , by not confederating for themselves and theirs regularly . ans. 1. here then is an acknowledgement , that the children in question , when baptism and church-membership is denied them , ●re thereby acknowledged to have no part in the lord , and so to be 〈◊〉 a way of ceasing from fearing the lord : and is not this the very ●●ing affirmed by the synod ? 2. whereas the reverend author saith , that these children are now in such a state , through the fault of the degenerate parents , who do not regularly enter into f●ll communion : it hath been shewed before , that these parents , though not yet in fall communion , 〈…〉 in ●ny b●rr● 〈◊〉 the 〈…〉 baptism of their children : and indeed , when the parents are such as the prop●sition describeth , viz. not 〈…〉 , but understanding and 〈◊〉 to the doctrine of faith , and solemnly owning the covenant , and therein giving up themselves and h●●r children to the lord , &c. how , for all this , these parents should be the cause that their children have n● part in the lord , but do ce●s● from f●aring him ; how this can be , we confess we do not understand . can parents , by giving up themselves and their children to the lord , be notwithstanding the cause that their children have no part in the lord , though they be parents that 〈◊〉 , and be qualif●●● for it , as in the proposition is expressed ? is their giving up themselves and ●h●●r children to the lord , a cause to cut off their children from having any part in the lord ? or is their present unfitness for f●ll 〈◊〉 , a cause of such loss and misery though they be and do what is mentioned and all that the prop●s●●ion expresseth ? we see no sufficient ground to apprehend so : but when the parents are and d● a● is mentioned , we f●ar it is not they that are the cause of their childrens loss and misery expressed , but they rather , who deny their baptism and church-membership . 3. saith the reverend author , that this denial hath a dangerous tendency to irreligion and apostacy , is not proved by them , nor can be . ans. but if this denial do deny them to have any part in the lord , and so make them cease from fea●ing the lord , how can it be but as is said ? can men cease from fearing the lord , and from having any par● in h●● , and yet this not tend to apostacy and irreligion ? now the reverend author confesseth , that these children have no part in the lord , though he say it is through the parents faith ; though if the parents be so qualified as is said , it will be hard to prove that this comes to pass through their fault ; and then whence is it , but from them that causlesly deny their baptism and church-membership ? and if his deni●l do cause that they have no part in the lord , doth it not also cause their irreligion and ●postacy ? that text josh. 22.24 , 25. saith the reverend author , speaks nothing for their advantage in this case . ans. let it be considered for what purpose the synod alledgeth that text , and then it will appear that it speaks for them . now the purpose of the synod in producing that text , is plainly this , that to deny such children to have a part in the lord , is the way to make them cease from fearing the lord : and what can be more plainly spoken , then this is spoken in that text ? but why doth this text speak nothing for the advantage of the synod ? the reason that is given for this , is , because the men there spoken of , were members in ful● communion ; and their children , when they were grown up , were joyned in covenant by a solemn covenant every third year , deut. 26.17 , 18. so that they had a part in the lord successively , from which if they had been excluded causlesly , it might have caused their children to cease from fearing the lord. ans. suppose all this be so , this seems not to weaken the intent of the synod in producing this text , but to strengthen it : for , if denying them that have been in full communion to have any part in the lord , may cause even such to cease from fearing the lord , how much more may this be caused in them that have not yet had this full communion ? may not one think , that such as have enjoyed communion with god in all his ordinances , will not be so easily drawn away from fearing the lord , as those that never had such full communion ? and yet the reverend author doth acknowledge this might have befallen the former , and therefore how much more may this be found in the other , of whom the synod speaketh ? which things considered , it seems plain that when it is said , that text josh. 22. speaks nothing for the synods advantage in this case , that this saying will not hold . the synod having said , that the owning of the children of those that successively continue in covenant to be a part of the church , is far from being destructive to the purity and prosperity of the church , and religion therein , as some conceive . the reverend author answereth , that they who so conceive , have such grounds of that perswasion , as will not easily be removed , nor are so much as shaken by any thing said by the synod . ans. if such a perswasion , that the children of those who continue in covenant , are no part of the church , be a perswasion upon grounds that cannot be removed nor shaken ; then it must follow , that the church and the covenant , which is the formalis ratio of the church , comprehends not children , but parents onely , or grown persons : and then the antipoedobaptists have won the day ; for by what right can children be baptized , if they be not in the covenant , nor any part of the church , though their parents be ? sure to us it seems a well-grounded perswasion , that if the parents be and continue in covenant , the children of such are part of the church , and ought to be so owned , , and that this is no wayes destructive to the purity and prosperity of the church , and religion therein . if the parents did not continue in the covenant , then there might be some question , whether the children be part of the church : but it is plain , that the synod speaks of the children of those that continue in the covenant ; and if any think it to be a well-grounded perswasion , that the parents may continue in the covenant , and yet the children of such parents are no part of the church , we confess we see no sufficient grounds for such a perswasion . for , the reverend author doth here confess , that it is true , that the frame of the covenant runs to us , and to our seed after us in their generations , pag. 32. and if this be true , is it not then true , that if the parents continue in the covenant , the seed of such parents are also part of the church ? for how can they be said to be in the covenant , which is the constituting form of the church , and yet be no part of the church , which is constituted thereby . but , saith the reverend author , this must be understood and applied suita●ly to the different constitution of churches , under different administrations of the covenant , under the old-testament , and under the gospel . ans. let this be granted , yet as long as the thing it self is not denied , which must not be denied , for he confesseth it to be true , viz. that the covenant runs to us , and to our seed after us in their generations : so long as this is not denied , the d●fference in other things between the old-testament and the new , will not weaken our cause at all . for , though for constitution of churches , the church was then national , and now congregational ; and though the administration of the covenant was then under many types and ceremonies , which are now removed : and notwithstanding any other difference that can be named , yet if there be not this difference also , that the covenant did run to them , and their seed in their generations , but not to us , and our seed in like sort ; if this difference also be not asserted , we see not how it can be avoided , but even now as well as then , if the parents continue in covenant , the children do so also , and so are part of the church : and so what the synod affirmeth is gained . for it cannot be said , that though it was so then , yet it is not so now , except we shall deny what the reverend author confesseth to be true , that the frame of the covenant ( did not onely run to them and to their seed , but also ) run● to us , and our seed in their generations . and if this be true , then what the synod gathereth from it is true also , that god hath so framed his covenant , and the constitution of his church thereby , as to design a continuation and propagation of his kingdome therein , from one generation to another . for it must needs be so , if the covenant runs to us , and to our seed after us in their generations . whereas the synod saith , that to keep in the line , and under the influence and efficacy of this covenant of god , in the true way to the churches glory . the answer of the reverend author , in sum , is this , that it is so indeed , when there is a succession of faith made visible to the churches charitable judgement ; but not so , when such a membership is set u● in christian churches , whereby infants shall be baptized by right from such parents as are not in f●ll communion : for what influence and efficacy h●th the covenant upon such parents ? whereto the answer is , that if the parents be qualified as this proposition expresseth , there is manifest influence of the covenant upon them , though yet they be not come so far as to be fit for full communion . for , when they being admitted in minority , are now , when adult , not onely free from scandal in life , but also endowed with a competency of knowledge in the doctrine of faith , and solemnly assent thereto , and own the covenant , and therein give up themselves and their children to the lord ; we conceive all this doth import some influence and efficacy of the covenant upon them : but if for all this , they shall be disowned from having any part in the church and covenant of god , how then can that be denied which the synod here saith , that by this cutting off , and disavowing the covenant , sion is hindred from being an eternall excellency , and the joy of many generations ? for , whatever joy it may be to the first generation , yet if all that follow , though qualified as the proposition expresseth , be nevertheless denied to have any part in the covenant and church of god , till fit for full communion , we do not see how such following generations can be any great excellency or joy at all . the synod having said , that this progress of the covenant establisheth the church , deut. 29.13 . jer. 30.20 . and that therefore the contrary doth disestablish it . the reverend author answereth , that the argument is to be denied ; for it will not follow , that if god did establish the church of the iews by such a successive progress of the covenant , deut. 29.13 . therefore he doth so now , pag. 33. a. why doth it not follow , that if god did establish the church of the iews by a progress of the covenant , that therefore he doth so now ? is not that true , which the reverend author confesseth to be true , that the frame of the covenant runs to us , and our seed after us in their generations ? and is not that true also which the synod here saith , ( though the reverend author saith nothing to it ) that god was an holy god , and loved the purity and glory of the church in the old testament , when he went in this way of a successive progress of the covenant ? we suppose this cannot be denied ; and therefore if a progress of the covenant did establish the church then , why not so now ? shall we think that the holy god did not so regard the purity of his church in those times , and therefore did then establish the church in this way , which now he will not do , as being now more carefull of the purity of his church ? we fear that to say this , would be to the dishonour of gods holiness and glory . and plain it is , that it is the same kingdome of god , that is , the same church-estate for substance and kind● , which is taken from the jews , and given to the gentiles , mat. 21.43 . and therefore the gentiles are said to be fellow-he●rs , and of the same body with them , ephes. 3.6 . and therefore what should hinder , but that if a progress of the covenant was a means to establish the church , then , it may be the same in ●hese 〈◊〉 also ? the synod having said in the conclusion of their fifth argument for confirming this fifth proposition , that the more holy , reforming , and glorious that the ●●m●s are or shall be , the more eminently is a successive continuation , and propagation of the church therein designed , promised , and intended . and having for this alledged these scriptures , isa. 60.15 . & 59.21 . ezek. 37.25 — 28. psal. 102.16 — 28. ier. 32 ▪ 39. the reverend author applies all these very texts to the church of the iews under the new jerusalem ; which church , he saith , must consist , for the matter of it , of elect and sincere believers onely , both they and their children successively to the end of the world : for which he alledgeth the texts afore-mentioned , pag. 33. ans. it is freely granted , that the church of the jews , when they shall be called and converted , shall be very holy and glorious ; and yet it may be questioned , whether that church shall have none in it , but onely elect and sincere believers , both they and their children to the end of the world . for , when christ shall come , the kingdome of heaven , that is to say , the church , though it be compared to virgins , in respect of much ecclesiastical purity , yet those virgins are some of them foolish virgins , that had no oyle in their vessels with their lamps , and so must have the door of the marriage-chamber shut against them , matth. 25. therefore they were not all sincere believers and elect : and therefore it may be a question , whether the church of the jews at that time will be so free from hypocrites , as is said . 2. if these scriptures , isa. 60.15 . & 59.21 . and the rest , do prove , that when the iews shall be called , it shall be with them as is said ; then what the synod here saith is gained , and stands good , viz. that in holy , reforming , and most glorious times , there shall be a continuation and propagation of the church from parents to children , from generation to generation ; which is the very thing which is here affirmed by the synod . 3. though the reverend author do here suggest this difference between that church of the jews under the new ierusalem , and the gentile churches ; that these latter shall have close hypocrites creeping into them , and the children of believers , by their degeneracy when adult , stopping the successive progress of the covenant , which in the church of the iews shall be otherwise : yet sith the scripture saith , that the nations of them that are saved , shall walk in the light of that new ierusalem , rev. 21. and that then the lord shall be king in all the earth ; and that there shall be one lord , and his name one , zech. 14. and that the name of the new ierusalem shall be written upon philadelphia , a church of the gentiles , rev. 3. it may seem upon these considerations and the like , that there will at that time be good conformity between the church of the jews , and gentile churches , and no such disproportion or difference , that in the one there should be a continuation and propagation of the church and covenant from parents and children successively , but in the other not so . we see no ground for believing such a difference , but for ought that doth yet appear , if there shall be such a glory in the one , as that there shall be a successive p●ogress of the covenant therein , there shall or may be the like in the gentile churches also . and to conceive any essential difference between either jews or gentiles then , and gentiles now , as to the frame of the covenant it self ( whatever difference there may be as to the measures of grace , &c. as is said in the synods result , p. 9. ) is a conception that we see no ground for in scripture . whereas the reverend author saith , pag. 34. that the children of church-members in this country are commonly known to be prof●n● , va●● , licentious , vicious , stubborn , proud , &c. and complains , that yet these are accepted into immediate personall membership . the answer is , 1. as before , that we think there is no accepting of members children , when adult , into membership , but an accepting of them unto full communion , when they are fit for it ; and an acknowled●ing of such and others to be members already , as having had it from their birth or minority , and having not since been regularly , in any way of god , cut off from the same . to call this an accepting of th●m into membership , we think is very improper . 2. if the children of church-members generally were commonly known to be so vicious and profane , as is said ; this were matter of great humiliation and grief to us all : but we hope it is too much to say so of the generality , or greatest part of them , there being better things appearing in many . 3. be it that they are so v●cious , or not , we think there is great reason that they should be carefully watched over by elders of churches , and all superiours , that so their corruptions and sins might be mortified , and they furthered to the attainment of that saving grace of god in christ jesus . and whereas the reverend author makes an objection , that if they be so vicious , they have the more need to be under the watch , discipline , and government of the church . and in answer thereto , saith , that it cannot rationally be expected that they will submit themselves thereto , but will disregard and slight the same ; and that acceptance with god , or blessing on such means cannot be expected , because god limits his blessing to his own appointments , p. 34 , 35. the answer is , that it hath been proved afore by seven or eight arguments in propos. 3. that these children are by gods appointment under the watch , discipline , and government of the church ; which arguments have been formerly vindicated and cleared from what the reverend author hath said against the same : and therefore for what is here said , that the exercise of church-discipline towards such , cannot be expected to be accepted of god , or blessed by him , because it wants his appointment ; we know not how to entertain this saying , except there were some better proof for it , which here is but nakedly delivered , without any proof at all : and therefore the exercise of church-discipline towards the children spoken of , may be appointed of god , accepted of him , and blessed by him , for ought that is here said to the contrary . and whereas it is said , that it cannot rationally be expected , that such persons will submit themselves to church-discipline . though we know but little of the exercise of church-discipline towards such , yet experience doth testify , that to some it hath , by the blessing of god , been profitable , and that they have submitted to it , and been bettered by it . lastly , the reverend author did a little afore in this same page , pag. 34. mention the vigilancy and faithful care and endeavour of church-elders towards the children mentioned , as a way or means for conveying religion down to after-generations , which we for our parts conceive to be sound and good . but then how can this stand which is there said , that such persons are not under the watch , discipline and government of the church ? for , doth not the vigilancy of church-elders , import some kinde of church-watchfulness ? can there be such vigilancy , care and endeavours towards such as are no● under the watch of the church at all ? or can such vigilancy , care and endeavour of church-elders , be a means to convey religion down to after-generations , and yet church-watchfulness toward such be without acceptance with god , and without any blessed fruit , either to the church or to the persons spoken of ? it seems t●ese things do not well cohere : so much for defence of the fifth argument , for confirming this fifth proposition . the sixth argument which the synod here useth , is , because the parents in question are personal , immediate , and yet-continuing members of the church . 1. that they are personall members , or members in their own persons , they say appears , 1. because they are personally holy , 1 cor. 7.14 . 2. are baptized in their own persons . 3. are personally under discipline . 4. are personally , by means of the covenant , in a visible state of salvation . 5. when they commit iniquity , they personally break the covenant , jer. 11.2 , 10. ezek. 16. therefore they are personally in it . to this the reverend author answereth , that three of these proofs belong onely to infants , and the other two to adult persons regularly admitted into church-membership : which therefore do not concern the parents in question : which two he saith are , 1. that they are personally under discipline , and liable to church-censures in their own persons . 2. that when they commit iniquity , they personally break the covenant . ans. let us then consider the particulars . for the first , that they are personally holy , according to 1 cor. 7.14 . though this be meant , as the reverend author saith , that they are thus holy federally and relatively , yet it is , as he acknowledgeth , in their own persons ; and if so , doth it not then follow , that they are church-members in their own persons ? can persons be truly called holy , as in the text alledged , or an holy seed , as ezra 9. and yet not be members of the visible church ? whether this holiness be inherent , or only federal and relative , yet sith they are thus holy in their own persons , we conceive they must therefore be granted to be church-members in their own persons . and though they first received this holiness in their minority , yet for ought we see their persons are still partakers of it , until in some way of god they be cut off from the same : which the parents in question have not been , but being qualified as the proposition expresseth , are far from deserving any such matter . for the second , that they are baptized in their own persons ; though this be , as the reverend author saith , by and for their parents covenanting for them , they being uncapable of covenanting for themselves ; yet this being regularly done , how can it be avoided , but , as the synod saith , it is a divine testimony that they are in their own persons members of the church . for , we conceive , the lord hath not appointed baptism , the seal of membership , to be applied to such as are not members : and to say , they are not members in their own persons , but in their parents , would infer , that they should not have been baptized in their own persons , but in their parents , their parents receiving baptism for them ; which the reverend author , we are perswaded , is far from affirming . and therefore they being regularly baptized in their own persons , how can it be avoided but that they are church-members in their own persons , untill they be regularly cut off from the same ? for that other particular , that by meanes of the covenant they are personally in a visible state of salvation ; the reverend author saith nothing hereto , but onely repeats it with this addition or explanation , " while nothing appears to the contrary : which clause may be added , and yet the purpose of the synod in this particular not at all hindred thereby . for if the persons spoken of be in their own persons in a visible state of salvation , whi●● nothing appears to the contrary ; doth it not then follow , that so long they are visible church-members in their own persons : will any body say that they are saved in their parents , and not in their own persons ? the synod conceived that none would so say : and that therefore it could not be said , that they are not members in their own persons but in their parents : whereto the reverend author saith nothing . as for that clause , " while nothing appears to the contrary , let the terms of the proposition be considered , and we conceive it cannot rationally and charitably be denied , but that the persons spoken of , as they were in a state of salvation when infant , so they are so still for ought appears to the contrary . for the contrary cannot be evinced and evidenced against them , either by ignorance , or scandal , or forsaking the covenant , or any such thing , they being such as understand the doctrine of faith , and publickly assent thereto , not scandalous in life , but commendably further qualified , as is there expressed ; so that for ought that appears to the contrary , they are in a visible state of salvation , and consequently they are personally church-members , and so herein the purpose of the synod is gained . for the other two particulars , which the reverend author saith , do belong to adult persons regularly admitted into church-membership , and so do not concern the parents in question ; the one is , that they are personally under discipline , and liable to church-censures in their own persons . for answer to this , he refers to his examination of propos. 3. and we refer the reader to our defence of that proposition against what he there said . the other particular , which is the last here mentioned , viz. that when they commit iniquity , they personally break the covenant ; his answer to it is , that this is not proved concerning infants , nor can be . ans. suppose it cannot , yet if that be proved for which the synod brings it , why may not that suffice , though this other be not proved , to which the reverend author applies it ? plain it is that the synod neither spake nor meant this of infants , but of such as are now parents , and therefore past their infancy : and therefore if these parents , when they commit iniquity , do break the covenant , then the purpose of the synod is gained , though such a thing could not be affirmed of infants . but if proofs for this or that may not be accepted , because they are not sufficient for confirming some other things whereto they were neither alledged nor intended , let the judicious and impartial reader consider whether this be equal and fair , and whether arguments in such a way be sufficiently answered . for the particular in hand the synod argueth , that the parents in question are personally in the covenant , because when they commit iniquity , they personally break the covenant ; alledging for this , ier. 11.2 , 10. ezek. 16. where breaking of covenant is expresly charged upon the persons there spoken of . now doth not this prove the thing intended ? sure , if their committing iniquity be breaking of covenant , either such persons were in the covenant , or else we must say a man may be guilty of breach of covenant , when he was not in it . and that the committing iniquity by the persons spoken of , is a breaking of covenant , the reverend author doth more then once acknowledge and testify , pag. 23 , 28 , 33 , 43 , 45. it were too long to transcribe all the words that are to this purpose in the pages quoted , but , in sum , there is thus much there affirmed and taught , that the covenant in which children are comprehended in their minority , leaves them under engagement to duty and obedience , when they become adult , which if they do not accordingly perform , they are then transgressors of the covenant , and breakers of it . now if they be breakers of it , is it not thereby clear that they are comprehended in it ? and so what is here said by the synod stands good . thus of the first particular , that the parents in question are personal members . the second is , that they are immediate members , as to the essence of membership , ( i. e. that they themselves in their own persons are the immediate subjects of this adjunct of church-membership ) though they come to it by means of their parents covenanting . for proof whereof , one thing alledged by the synod , is that iohn . 22.25 , 27. where the children are said to have a part in the lord , ( to which church-membership is equivalent ) as well as the parents ; and nothing coming between this subject ( the children ) so as to sever it from the adjunct ( a part in the lord ) therefore they conclude , that the children are immediate subjects of church-membership , or immediate members . now what saith the reverend author unto this ? why , that which he saith , is , that though nothing come between to sever that adjunct from the subject , yet something comes between to bring that subject and adjunct together , viz. the parents covenanting for the childe : which if it did not come between , they would be severed , as they are in othe● children . ans. but what is there in this to overthrow the synods assertion ? do not they expresly grant , in terms as plain as can be spoken , and that more then once , that the children come to this adj●nct of church-membership by means of their parents covenanting ? see their words in their pag. 23. and therefore this can be no removing of what they have said , being nothing but the very same with that which they have said before . the question is not about the way or mean● of childrens membership , for it is freely yielded that in this respect it is mediate , that is , they come unto it by means of the parents covenanting ; but the question is about the ess●●●● , nature or k●m●e of their membership : whether in this respect it be not the same with the parents , and they as well as the parents the immediate subjects of it ; and the granting of the former , is no deniall of this other . if a parent have room or place in such or such an house , and his childe be there also , though he come thither in the parents arms , yet may it not be said that this childe hath a place and being in the house , as truly and as properly as the parent , although he came unto it by the parents means ? even so it is in the case in hand ; the childe comes to be in covenant , and so in the church , by the parents covenanting , yet now he is in the church , and in the covenant , and hath a room and place therein , as truly and as properly as the parent . again , the synod having said , that their visible ingraffing into christ the head , and so into the church his body , is sealed in baptism : and that in ingraffing , nothing comes between the graft and the stock ; their union is immediate . the reverend author answereth , that yet it will not follow that they are immediate members of the visible church . ans. and why will not this follow ? if their union with the church be ingraffing , and that in ingraffing , nothing comes between the g●●ft and the stock , doth it not then follow , that their union with the church is immediate , and they immediate members of it ? for , as for that which is here said , that this union is not properly , but metaphorically called ingraffing , because there is some similitude here , but similitudes do run on four feet : it sufficeth that they agree in the main point . ans. but how do they agree therein , if for all this in graffing there be something between the stock and them ? is it not a main point in ingraffing , that the union between the branch and the stock be immediate , and that nothing lye between them ? who knoweth not that if it be not so , but that some stock or stone , or something else be between them , so that their union be not immedi●te ; who knoweth not that in such case the ingr●ffing is spoiled , and the benefit of the branch interrupted , because its union with the stock is not immediate ? if then the union of members with the church be ●●graffing , how can it be avoided but it must be immediate , and so they be immediate members ? as for that which is here subjoyned , that infants and children in minority do partake of baptism and other priviledges , by means of their parents covenanting for them , but adult persons by their personall covenanting for themselves and their seed . this is nothing to the essence of their membership , but onely speaks to the way and mean● how they come to it , which is not the thing in question : for it may be granted , that children come to be members by their parents covenanting for them , and the parents by their own covenanting , and yet their membership , notwithstanding this different way of attaining it , may be one and the same for essence and kinde , and both have immediate conjunction with the church . for that where the synod saith , " that in deut. 29.11 . the children were personally and immediately part of the people of god , or members of the church of israel , as well as the parents . the answer of the reverend author is , that the text doth not prove it . ans. and yet the words are express and plain , that they did all stand before the lord , to enter into covenant with him , that he might establish them a people to himself ; and the persons of whom this is said , are not onely the men of israel , but also their wives , and their little ones : so that if the men of israel , and their wives , were personally and immediately members of that church , their little ones , for ought that appears , were so also : for they are all alike spoken of without difference . whereas the synod said , that to be in covenant , or to be a covenantee , is the formalis ratio of a church-member ; and the children being in the covenant , are therefore the immediate subjects of the formalis ratio of membership , and so immediate members . the answer of the reverend author is , that though to be in covenant be the formalis ratio of a church-member , yet it will not follow , that every covenantee doth immediately covenant for himself , nor that every member of the church is an immediate member , pag. 39. ans. for the one of these , viz. of covenanting immediately for themselves , the synod never said nor meant that little children did so covenant , nor inferred any such thing from their being in covenant , and so being partakers of the formalis ratio of church-membership ; but a little afore , and also in this very place do acknowledge , that one may come to be in covenant one way , and another in another : and therefore though children do not covenant immediately for themselves , yet what the synod inferreth from their being partakers of the formalis ratio of church-membership , is not at all infringed by this branch of the reply . but for the other , of being immediate members , why doth not this follow from their being partakers of the covenant , the formalis ratio of membership ? can one be partaker of the form , or formalis ratio of this or that , and yet not be immediately partaker of the effect , or thing formed , but something must first intervene and come between ? if the reasonable soul , and its conjunction with the body , be the formalis ratio of a man ; can there be this , and yet no man immediately , but something more must come between to make a man ? we suppose it cannot be denied but here is a man immediately , as being partaker of the formalis ratio of a man. and even so it may be said in the present case , that children being partakers of the covenant , the formalis ratio of church-members , they are therefore immediate members . the synod having said , that to act in covenant , is but the instrumentall means of membership , and yet children are not without this neither : for the act of the parent ( their publick person ) is accounted theirs — the reverend author answereth , that the parents acting in ●●v●n●n●ing for their infant 〈◊〉 , hath been before proved to be the procreant cause of 〈…〉 , pag 39. ans. it was indeed before said , viz. pag 37. that he looked at believing confederating 〈◊〉 , not as the instrumentall , but as the procreant caus● ; as of the c●hil●● b●m● , by his generating of him , so also of his church-membership , by his confederating for him . this was s●ia indeed in the page mentioned , but that it was so proved , we cannot say ; if this word [ procreating ] be taken as it is expressed , not onely as contrad●sti●ct from the instrumentall cause , but as a deniall thereof , for so his expression runs . viz. not as the instrumentall , but as the procreant cause , &c. now that it hath been proved , that the parents act in covenanting is not the instrumentall cause , but the procreant of the childes membership , this indeed hath been said once and again but we do not see ●t proved at all . and indeed how can it ? for this procreant cause , sith it is not an instrumentall , must then be the principall-cause : and is this proved , that the parents act in covenanting is not the instrumen●●ll , but the principall cause of the childes membership ? what shall then become of gods institution in this matter ? if the parents act herein be such a procreant cause as is not instrumentall , then it must be the principall ; and then what place is there left for gods institution ? and how doth the reverend author agree with himself , who saith , th●s is the procreant cause , and that by gods institution , and yet is not the cause instrumentall ? if the parents act be the cause of the childs membership by gods institution , how can it be avoided but it must be instrumentall , as the synod said : but if it be so procreant , as not to be instrumentall , how then can it be by gods institution , as he saith it is . these things need reconciling . for our parts , we see no reason to the contrary , but that ▪ that of logicians is right , who place the procreant cause under the head of the ●ffi●i●n , and this act of the parents that is here spoken of , being not the principall effi●ent of the childs membership , must needs be the instrumentall , as the synod hath said ; and therefore such a procreant as is not instrumentall , nor yet principall , we confess we know not where to place it . besides , when the reverend author in pag. 37. makes this covenant-act of the parent to be the procreant cause of the childs membership , even as the paren● is the cause of the ch●l●●●em , by his generation of him ; doth not this plainly infer that which yet he denieth , that such a parent is the instrumental cause of the childs membership ? for , is any parent such a procreant cause of his childs being by gen●raci●n , as not to be instrumental under god therein ? how then are children said to be by the gift and blessing of god , psa. ● 27. 3. ●en●s . 29.31 . & 30.22 . & 33.5 . and the want of children even in married persons to be by gods restraining hand , and sh●tting up the w●●b ? gen. 16.2 . & 20.18 . & 30.2 . doth not this plainly shew , that parents are but instrumental under god in the begetting of children ? and therefore if the parent be the cause of the childs membership in like sort , as of the childs natural being by his generating of him , then it must be granted , that in this of his church-membership ▪ he is no otherwise a procreant cause of it , but as instrumental ; for in that of the childs natural being it is certainly so : and that of membe●ship being , as the reverend author saith , l●ke unto this other , therefore in this of the childs membership it is so also . moreover , i● this well hold , that the parent is such a procreant cause of the childs membership by confederating for him , as he is of the childs na●ur●l ●en● by 〈◊〉 ; then look as the child which the parent generates , is personally , immediately formally and actually a man for one of mankind as well as the parent ; so by the membership which the parents confederating procreates for him , he is a personal , immediate , formal and actual church-member . the synod , to shew that children are actual , complea● , and immediate members , asketh , what do they want hereunto ? is it covenan●-interest , which is the formalis ratio of membership ? no , they are in covenant . is it divine gran● , and institution , which is the principal efficient ? no , god hath clearly declared that he gra●ts them a portion in his church , and appoints them to be members thereof . is it an act of covenanting , which is the instrumental means ? no , they have this also reputatively by divine appointment , making the parent a publick person , and accounting them to covenant in his covenanting . the sum is , they want nothing that is requisite to complea● and immediate membership . now what saith the reverend author to this ? that which he saith , is this , that all that is here expressed , doth not supply what is wanting to invest little children with such membership . for , though they are in covenant , which is the formalis ratio of their membership , yet it is mediante parentum foedere , and so their membership is mediate . ans. but this speaks nothing to the nature and kind of their membership , but onely to the way and means of attaining it , which may be different from that of adult persons , and yet the thing be the same . if the chief captain obtain by a great sum to be a freeman of rome , and paul be free born , act. 22.28 . yet pauls freedome is either better then the other , or at least no worse ; and so it may be said of the church-membership of little children . there is wanting unto children in minority to make them such members , a personal fitness to act in covenant for themselves . ans. but this is nothing to the nature of their membership , but onely speaks of the way of attaining it by their own act . but shall we say that paul wanted something to make him a free roman , because he had no personal fitness nor ability to procure that freedome to himself by his own act , but onely was so born ? or shall we say that david and others mentioned in psal. 22.10 . isai. 46.4 . wanted something of compleat , proper and immediate interest in god , because they had their interest from their mothers womb , and did not attain it by their own personal act ? for our parts we dare not so say , and by like reason dare not deny , but that the interest of little children in the visible church , may be proper , compleat and immediate , though they have not come to it by their own act , but have had it from their minority or birth . for , to have god for their god is as great a blessing , as to be an actual and immediate member of the visible church ; and yet we see want of personall fitness to act for themselves , did not hinder from the one , and why then should it hinder from the other ? synod . a different manner and means of conveying the covenant to us , or of making us members , doth not make a different sort of members ; we are as truly , personally and immediately members of the body of fallen mankind , and by nature heirs of the condemnation pertaining thereto , as adam was , though he came to ●e so by his own pers●n●l act , and we by the act of our publick person , pag. 24.25 . the reverend author in his answer hereto grants , that in the case of adam it is so , as is said ; but , saith he , this doth not suit the the case of i●fan●s in question . for , 1. adam stood as a publick person for all mankind ; no parent is so for all his posterity , but for his infants and children in minority . 2. adams covenant was onely with the lord , and not with any church , as the covenant of confederate parents is . 3. the parents breaking the covenant doth not make his children heirs of condemnation , as adams did all mankind , pag. 40.41 . for answer whereto , we may remember what himself did formerly express , that similitudes do not run on four feet ; if they agree in the main point that may suff●● , though in other things they d●ffer . if therefore there were these three differences , and as many more , between the cases alledged , yet where is there any difference in the main point ? are not we as truely , personally , and immediately members of the body of fallen mankinde , as adam was ? this the reverend author doth not deny , but in plain words doth grant it : and is not then the purpose of the synod , in alledging this instance , clearly gained ? doth it not plainly appear thereby , that a different way and means of being in covenant , doth not make a different sort of membership ? adam was a member of fallen mankinde , and so are we , though he came to be so by his own personal act , and we by him , or by his act for us ? which doth clearly shew what the synod saith , that a different way and means of being members , doth not alter the nature and kinde of membership ; which we see doth hold as touching being a member of fallen mankinde , and we see no reason but it may also hold as touching being a member of a visible church . there is not any to be accounted a publick person , as adam was , but onely iesus christ for all that are in him , rom. 5.14 , to 20. pag. 41. ans. yet it is evident , though jesus christ was a publick person for all that are in him , as adam was , yet in the number of persons there is difference ; adam standing for all mankinde , and christ standing onely for his redeemed , the elect. now if christ may be truely called a publick person for all his , as adam was , though adam was for them that were farre more in number ; why may not then a consederating parent be counted a publick person for his children though they be farre less in number then the other ? but herein the cases seem parallel ; adam for all in him , christ jesus for all in him , and the confederating parent for all in him . we see not how this can justly be denied by the reverend author , si●h he calls these parents " v●dertakers for their children , pag. 40. and again , pag. 41. and such undertakers , that the children are bound by their parents acting to perform that covenant , when they shall become capable : which seems to us to be the same , or as much as is meant , when they are called publick persons for their children . another similitude used by the synod to illustrate the thing in question , is , from a prince giving lands to a man and his heirs successively while they continue loyall ; in which case the following heir is a true and immediate owner of that land , and may be personally disinherited , if d●sloyall , as well as his father before him . to this the answer is , that this similitude doth not sort the case in question ; f●r , as for infants , they cannot be visibly disl●yall , and adult persons not regularly joyned to the church , have cut off the entail of the covenant from themselves and their posterity by their personall disloyalty . ans. but for all this , the similitude may suit the case in question , though the reverend author say it doth not . for , as the following heir is an immediate owner of that land , till for disloyalty he be disinherited ; so the following children are immediate church-members , till some of them for their sin be cut off from their membership . is not here plain suitableness in the similitude ? we conceive it is apparent and manifest . for , if infants cannot be disl●yal , and if adult persons be cut off for disloyalty , is it not manifest , that both are immediate owners till they be cut off ? which is the thing the synod affirms . concerning infants , it seems they are such true and immediate owners of church-membership , as that they cannot be cut off therefrom , because they cannot be so disloyal as to deserve such a thing : and for the adult persons , if the entaile of the covenant be cut off from them and their posterity by their personal disloyalty ; doth not this clearly shew , that they were truely and immediately in the covenant , till their disloyalty cut them off ? and so the similitude stands suitable and good for the purpose for which the synod brings it . but as for this " cutting off the entail of the covenant , which is here spoken of ; we must confess we do not see how such a thing can justly be charged upon the persons spoken of in this proposition : for , they understand the doctrine of faith , and give their assent thereto ; ●hey are not scandalous in life , they solemnly own the covenant , and therein give up themselves and their children to the lord : and is this such disloyalty , as to be a cutting off the covenant and enta●l of it ? we think it were hard to prove such a thing , and do fear that charity will not allow to affirm it . nor that which is here said in this pag. 41. that nothing is given to them and theirs by the covenant , wh●●h ●hey presume to usurp without warrant from god. for , 1. by the covenant god gives himself to be a god to his people , and to their seed in their generations , gen. 17. and shall we say this is nothing ? god is almighty , and all-sufficient , and is it nothing to have such a god to be a god to us , and to our seed ? 2. and when the persons in question are such as were regularly in covenant in their infan●● , by means of their parents covenanting for them , as the reverend author doth acknowledge , how can their owning this covenant , when they become adult , be justly counted a presuming to usurp the covenant without warrant from god ? we reade of them that are blamed , and that justly , for forsak●ng the covenant which god made with their fathers , deut. 29.25 . judg. 2.20 . but that owning this covenant should be a forsaking of it , and an usurping of it without warrant from god , and a presuming ▪ we do not see how this can be proved . to some indeed the lord saith , what hast thou to do to take my covenant in thy mo●th ? psal 50 16. but doth the lord say this to such as were qualified as in this fifth proposition ? the contrary is most clear : for these in this psal. 50. are expresly called wicked , such as did hate to be instructed and reformed , were culpable for consenting with thieves , partaking with adulterers , slandering , and all evil speaking , &c. whereas the persons in question are not culpable for any such thing , being expresly said to be not scandalous in life ; but on the contrary furnished with many good and commendable qualifications , and were regularly admitted into the covenant in their minority : and therefore being so unl●ke the persons that are blamed for tak●ng g●ds covenant into their mouth , we see no ground to say they have 〈◊〉 off the entail of the covenant by their disloyalty , and that nothing is given to them and theirs by it , but that they presume to usurp it without wa●rant from god : we see no warrant from god so to say or think of such persons . a member ( saith the synod ) is one that according to rule , or divine institution , is within the visible church . they say true , saith the reverend author : but that refutes nothing that i have said concerning mediate and immediate members , for both are within the church , though both have not full communion with the church in all ordinances . ans. the synod never said , that all that are within the church have such full communion , and therefore this is nothing against them : but if all members be within the church according to divine institution , how can it be avoided but they are all immediate members of the church ? for , if they be all within the church , then there is nothing as a medium between the church and them , or any of them , and so they are all immediate members , as the synod saith . whether all have full communion , is one thing , and whether all be immediate members , is another ; and the denying of the former , is no infringing of the latter . the synod having mentioned an objection , that if children be compleat and immediate members as their parents , they shall then immediately have all church-priviledges as their parents have : and making this answer , that it followeth not ; all priviledges that belong to members as such , do belong to the children as well as the parents : but all priviledges do not so . a member as such ( or all members ) may not partake of all priviledges , but they are to make progress both in memberly duties and priviledges , as their age , capacity , and qualifications do fit them for the same . to this the reverend author auswereth , that their answer to the objection is insufficient ; for the best members have need to make prōgress in memberly duties and qualifications , yet all have that communion that suits their membership : infants in baptism , &c. and adult persons in the seals , voting , &c. pag. 41 , 42. ans. by this it seems the difference lies here , that whereas some church-members have communion in all church-priviledges , and others not in all , but onely in some ; the synod apprehends the reason of this difference to be , because some are yet defective in qualifications , and fitness for such full communion , though not wanting compleat and immediate membership : but the reverend author makes the reason of the difference to be from the different kinde of membership , the one sort being onely mediate members , and the other immediate . all have that communion for which they are qualified , saith the synod : all have that communion which suits their membership , saith the reverend author . for clearing of which point , it may not be a miss to consider of other societies , and how it is in them ; as that of the family , and of the civil state : in both which it is clear , that all have not like communion in priviledges ; but who can say that this ariseth from their different membership in the societies of which they are ? or how can it be denied , but that this ariseth from their different qualifications ? an infant , an idiot , one distracted , or distempered with frenzy , &c. such cannot enjoy all priviledges in the family , or civil state , as others may ; and the reason is , because they are not fitly qualified : but who can say they are not compleat , and proper , and immediate members of the family or state , as well as others ? he that doth injury to such an one , doth injury to one that is as truely and properly a member of the society , as those that are better qualified ; and such injuries are punishable with death , or otherwise , as the nature of the offence doth require , as being injuries to one that is truely and properly a personal and immediate subject and member of the common-wealth , though there might be many other subjects better qualified ? in like sort in church-society , some may enjoy more full com●union then others , and yet not as being more truely partakers of proper personal , and immediate membership , but because they are better qualified . thus of the second particular , that the parents in question are immediate members . the third is , that their membership still continues in adult age , and ceaseth not with their infancy ; 1. because in scripture persons are broken off onely for notorious sin , or incorrigible in penitency and unbelief , not for growing up to adult age , rom. 11.20 . the reverend author answereth , that this reason doth not prove , that the membership of all baptized in infancy continues in adult age . ans. nor did the synod so say , nor produce that reason and scripture for such purpose ; but their purpose therein was this , viz. to prove that the parents in question do still continue members : which may be true , though all 〈◊〉 are baptized in infancy do not . for thus their argument lies : if persons be not broken off but for notorious sin , or incorrigible in penitency and unbelief ; then the parents in question are not broken off , but do still continue members : for any such notorious sin ▪ &c. cannot justly be charged upon them , witness the terms of the proposition . to this purpose is this reason alledged by the synod ; and therefore though the membership of ●ll baptized in infancy do not continue in adult age , the synod loseth nothing thereby , a● having never affirmed any such thing . but why doth not this reason and text prove the thing intended by the synod ? the reverend author gives this reason ; ●ecause that text rom. 11.20 . spe●k onely of such as have been received into membership by their personal faith , and covenanting with the church visibly . a. the text clearly speaks of the people or nation of the iews , of whom it is said , that they were a disobedient and gainsaying people , rom. 10 . 2● . that they , as concerning the gospel , were enemies , rom. 11.28 . that they killed the lord iesus , and their own prophets , and persecuted the ap●stles , pleased not god , and were contrary to all men , &c. 1 thess. 2.15 , 16. and shall we say , that notwithstanding all this , they were received into compleat and immediate membership by their personal faith , & c ? besides , it is not very credible , that all the members of the jewish church were received into compleat and immediate membership by their personal faith , if that be true which the reverend author said , pag. 6. that that church was to be propagated and continued by natu●●● generation in a lineall descent from abraham , by isaac and jacob , t●ll the coming of christ ; and that there was no ordinance for casting out their members for sins against the morall law , as there is under the gospel , pag. 12. which things ( if true ) do import , that visible faith was not the thing looked for in receiving the members of that church , nor in continuing of them , but their natural generation , and lineal d●sc●n● , , might suffice : how then can that stand which is here said , that the persons sp●k●n of in r●m . 11.20 . were such as were received into membership 〈…〉 , when as that text speaks of the members of the church of the jews , who ( if the reverend authors apprehension be right ) were not so received , but by lineal succession , by natural generation ; christian churches differing from that church , and being of another sort , as being to be propagated and continued by regeneration , made visible by a right confession , and profession of faith , pag. 6. the sum is this , in the one place he makes it peculiar to christian churches to be propagated by regeneration , and 〈◊〉 ●●sibly prof●●●ed ; and that in the church of the jews it was othe●wise : and in the other place , which certainly speaks of the church of the jews , he saith it speaks of emb●●● received by ●her personal faith ▪ wherein there seems to be a rep●gnancy . our 〈◊〉 of adult persons that break off themselves from the covenant by pr●●h●ne neglect or contempt of the ordinances , or uns●table conve●s●a●● , pag. 43. ans. then the parents in question are not broken off at all , but their membersh●p 〈◊〉 continues , as the synod saith ; for the terms of the proposition will not suffer such prophaneness and ●n empt of o●●●nances , and 〈◊〉 conversation , to be justly charged upon them ; and if there be the causes for which men are 〈◊〉 off , is not then this reason of the synod plainly confirmed and made good ? for they argue , that the persons in question do still continue members , because 〈…〉 notorious sin , impenitency , incorrigibleness , and the like ; and here it is said , that men are broken off by pro●h●●eness , contempt of the ordinances , and unsuitable conversation ; which sayings are in effect the same , or little different , and both of them do witness that the persons spoken of are not broken off , as not being guilty of any such wickedness or misdemeanours . who ever said that any were broken off for growing up to adult age ? ans. if the persons described in the proposition be said to be broken off , what is this l●ss then the thing that is so disowned ? it cannot be denyed but they were once within the church , and it cannot be said that they are broken off for any scandal in their conversation ; but coming up to the terms in the proposition are far from such evil , and on the contrary are furnished with many good and commendable qualifications , as knowledge , profession , s●●jection to christs government , owning the covenant , and the like . now if notwithstanding all this , they be declared to be no members of the church , but broken off from it , though they were once in it ; what is this less then to say , they are broken off by growing up to adult age ? and see reply of the reverend author to this argument , p. 42. 2. saith the synod , the iews children circumcised did not cease to be members by growing up , but continued in the church , and were by vertue of their membership received in infancy , bound unto various duties , and in special to those solemn personal professions that pertained to adult members , not as then entring into a new membership , but as making a progress in memberly duties , deut. 26.2 — 10. & 16.16 , 17. gal. 5.3 . to this the answer is , 1. that the iewes children circumcised were bound to various duties , and to those solemn professions mentioned , is clear enough by the texts alledged , and sundry other : whereunto i willingly adde , that baptisme also bindeth the infant-seed of confederates to various gospel-duties , and especially this of using all mean , &c. ans. and do not both these shew that which the synod expresseth , that children do not cease to be members by growing up , but do still continue in the church ? for if it was so with the jews children , is it not also so with ours , according to the synods arguing ? and if by vertue of that membership received in infancy , the circumcised then did , and the baptized now do stand bound to various duties when adult , how can it be avoided , but that membership received in infancy then did , and now doth continue in adult age ? for , when & as long as one stands bound by a covenant , then and so long that covenant must needs remain in being , for otherwise how could one stand bound by it ? can one be bound by that which is not in being ? one would think this were not possible . therefore by this being bound by the covenant and membership received in infancy , to various duties when adult , it appeareth , that the covenant and membership received in infancy doth still continue in adult age , and so the purpose of the synod is gained . but 2. saith the reverend author , it is not proved by those texts , that w●●n they were adult they did not enter into a new membership ; rather the contrary appears by deut. 26.17 , 18. ans. if so , then they did every third year enter into a new membership : for the reverend author conceives that what is said to be done in deut. 26 17 , 18. was done every third year , as before ● . 31 . but who knows not that the same persons or people may many a time enter into covenant , or renew their covenant with god , and yet not thereby enter into so many new memberships ? it seems by psal. 50.5 . where it is said , they have made a covenant with me by sacrifice , that so oft as sacrifice was offered , so oft there was a covenant made between god and them ; and yet it will not follow , that at every time of sacrificing there was an entring into a new membership : it may suffice to say , as the synod doth , that at all such times there was a prog●●s● in memberly duties . but why should we think that the covenant in deut. 26. was entring into a new membership ? the reason rendred , is this ; because they entred into the covenant personally and immediately , not in and by their parents , as they did in infancy , gen. 17.7 . and if covenanting be the form of church-membership , then a different form of covenanting , makes a different kinde of membership ; mediate and immediate covenanting , makes mediate and immediate members . ans. but is this certain , that a different way of covenanting , makes a different kinde of membership ? in gen. 15. there is covenanting by divi●ing the he●fe● , the go● , &c. in the midst , and passing between the pieces or parts ▪ and so in jer. 34. in gen. 17. there is covenanting by silence , and falling upon the face : in nehem. 9.38 . there is covenanting by writing and sealing of it ; in 2 chron. 15. by swearing with a loud voice , and by engaging , that ●hosoever should not do as is there promised , should be put to death . here we see are various wayes of covenanting ; but shall we say that these do infer divers kinds of membership ? then it would follow , that if the same persons or people should divers times enter into covenant , or renew their covenant , and this sometimes in one of these wayes , and sometimes in another , if a different form of covenanting do make a different kind of membership , it would follow , that the same persons and people might many times over , again and again enter into a new kin● of membership ; which we suppose none will affirm , and therefore this that is here said will not hold : the thing for essence and kind may be the same , when the way and manner of doing may be various . moreover , covenanting taken for our act in making or renewing the covenant , is not the form of membership ( this is but the instrumental efficient ) but covenant-interest , or to be in covenant , is the formalis ratio of membership ( that is it which the synod affirms pag. 24. ) and that is the immediate , actual , and proper portion of the children , as well as of the parents . the third argument of the synod , is , from the relation of born servants and subjects , by which the scripture s●●s forth the state of children in the church , levit. 25 41 , 42. ezek. 37.25 . which relations ( as all men know ) do no●●eas● with infancy , but do continue in adult age : and ●ince it also follows , that one special end of membership received in infancy , is to leave persons under engagement to service and subjection to christ in his church when grow● up , &c. pag. 25 , 26. the answer to this , is , that the one of these texts is typical , figuring the t●●e of grace , whereby now christ hath freed us from the servitude of sin and satan , &c. the other text is a prophecy of the calling of the elect nation of the iews , and of the state of the church under the new ierusalem : and therefore these do neither of them suit the thing in question . ans. but for the present nothing appears to the contrary , but they may be suitable ; yet , if the thing it self for which those texts are alledged , be sound and good , the inference which the synod makes is so also , though the texts were not so apt . for , if the children in the church be in state as born servants and subjects to christ , then this state and relation , and so their membership , doth not cease with infancy , but continues in adult age . and we hope the reverend author will not deny , but for state they are as born servants , and subjects to christ , though he thinks the texts quoted are not apt proofs for it ; but if the thing be not denied , the argument of the synod stands good for the continuance of their membership . grant them to be in the state of born servants and subjects in their infancy , and then it must be granted , that this state continueth when they are adult , and so their membership doth not cease with their infancy : deny that their membership continueth when adult , and then it must be said , either that their state in infancy is not as born servants and subjects , or that such relations do cease with infancy . but for the reverend author , he expresly grants , that one special end of membership received in infancy , is to leave persons under engagement to service and subjection to christ in his church when grown up , when they are fittest for it , and have most need of it , pag 43. which is the very same that is here affirmed by the synod : and doth not that hence follow which the synod inferreth , that therefore their membership did not cease with infancy , but doth still continue ? it seems to follow unavoidably : for how can they when adult , or grown up , be under engagement to service and subjection , as the end of membership received in infancy , if that membership do not still continue , but together with their infancy be now past and gone ? if they be still under engagement , then their covenant doth still continue , and consequently their membership . yet , when all this is done , neither can the parents nor the church give grace unto the children , that when they become adult they may be spiritually fit for personal and immediate membership : and to bring them into it without such fitness visibly , is to prophane the ordinances , and to pollute the lords sanctuary , pag 44. ans. it is true , none can give grace but god , who is the god of all grace : but for bringing the adult persons spoken of into membership , we conceive there is no such thing here intended by the synod , nor can be spoken of in any propriety of speech concerning the persons in question ; they being such as were members from their infancy , and are accounted by the synod still to continue members now when adult , and therefore there is no bringing of them into membership . that which is here spoken of , were more aptly called an acknowledging of them to be members : and how the acknowledging of such persons , as the proposition describes , to be and continue members , can be judged a prophanation of the ordinances , or a polluting of the lords sanctuary , we confess we do not understand : for we know they were brought into membership by gods own institution and appointment , and we do not know that they have in any way of god been put from it ; nor , considering the term in the proposition , can be justly judged to deserve any such matter , but the contrary : and therefore the acknowledging of them to be members , can be no such prophaning and polluting , as is spoken of . the fourth argument of the synod , to shew that the persons spoken of do still continue members , is this : because there is no ordinary way of cessation of membership , but by death , dismission , excommunication , or dissolution of the society ; none of which is the case of the persons in question . whereto the reverend author answereth , that the ennumeration is insufficient ; there is another ordinary way , i. e. desertion . thus esau's membership ceased ; and so many theirs , who being adult , regard not to joyn with the church by their personal and immediate confederation , &c. and if forsaking the church may suffice to deprive those of church-priviledges , who were before in personal and immediate church-fell●wship , 1 joh. 2.19 . how much more those who never had such membership ? &c. what can the mediate membership which such had in infancy , advantage them for continuing in membership , when being adult they live in the breach of that covenant , whereby they were left under engagement in their infancy unto service and subjection to christ in the church ? ans. if the ennumeration were not sufficient , but that that of desertion ▪ were needful to be added , yet this would not avail to prove the contrary to what the synod here saith , but the membership of the persons in question may still continue for all this : for , being qualified as the proposition expresseth , they are farre from being guilty of such desertion , or forsaking of the church of god ; and therefore it is not this , though it were added to the particulars in the argument , that can hinder their still continuing to be members . nor can they be justly charged as guilty of such things as are here expressed , viz. not regarding to joyn with the church by their personal and immediate confederation , nor to fit themselves for it , but to despise the church of god , not desiring nor endeavouring after spiritual fitness , but living in the breach of that covenant , &c. these things we cannot see how they can justly be imputed to the persons qualified as the proposition expresseth , but they may still continue to be members , as not being culpable of any such things , as these here mentioned , to un-member them . here also it may be observed , how the reverend author doth again acknowledge , that the sins of adult persons , who were admitted in infancy , are a breach of that covenant in which they were then comprehended , and which left them under engagement unto service and subjection to christ in the church : which sheweth that they are still in the covenant , though now they be adult ; for otherwise , how could their sins be breach of covenant ? and if they be still in covenant , then they still continue members , and their membership did not cease with their infancy , which is the thing here affirmed by the synod . for that of esau , whose membership is said to cease by desertion the reverend author may remember , that he hath more then one told us of invalidity of proofs from the old testaments for things 〈◊〉 gospel-times : which proofs , though we cannot say but they may b● valid , yet why should himself use them against us , ( for this of esau is from the old testament ) if his apprehension be right , that such proofs are not valid ? but for the thing it self , of the cessation of membership by a mans own act , this hath been spoken unto before , pag. 34.35 . in defence of the first argument for this fifth proposition : where also was considered that text 1 ioh. 2.19 . which is here alledged again : to which former place we refer the reader ; onely adding thus much , that the cessation of membersip which the synod here speaks of , is such cessation as is ordinary , but if esau ' ▪ were by his own act alone , why may we not say that there was something in it extraordinary ? though it is not any where said that it was by his own act : if any afffirm that it was , it stands upon them to prove it , for affirmanti incumbit probatie . and though it be not said that the church had any hand in it , yet negative arguments in matter of fact are not cogent , though in matters of faith they be : but for matter of fact , we know many things were done that are not written , ioh. 20.30 . & 21.25 . and therefore though this be not written , that there was any church-proceedings against esau for his departing from the church , and therefore we do not say there was ; yet they that say there was not , must prove there was not , because the meer not mentioning that there was , is no sufficient proof that there was not : and for any further proof , that esau's falling off from his church-membership was by his own act alone ; any further proof for this , then meerly the not expressing of any church-proceedings against him , we finde none . the fifth argument of the synod for confirming this particular , that the persons spoken of do still continue members , is this : because otherwise a person admitted a member , and sealed by baptism , not cast out , nor deserving so to be , may ( the church whereof he was , still remaining ) become a non-member , out of the church , and of the unclean world ; which the scripture acknowledgeth not . whereto the answer in sum is this , that as a freemans childe of some corporation is free-born , and may in his minority trade under his father ; yet being grown up , must personally enter into the common engagement of freemen , or else may not trade for himself , but is a non-freeman by his own default , and hath lost his freedom by not entring in his own person into the common engagement , &c. so , and much more justly , an adult person makes himself to become a non-member by not covenanting personally as his father did . ans. it may be justly questioned , whether this comparison do suit the case in hand . for , 1. all the priviledge of this freemans childe that is mentioned , is this , that he may in his minority trade under his father ; which priviledge doth not at all arise from his being the childe of a freeman ; and the reason is , because one that is not a childe , but onely a servant of such a freeman , may trade under the freeman ▪ as his master . this being the priviledge of such freemen , that their servants , and others belonging to them , though they are not free , yet may trade for them , and in their names : which is upon then atter no priviledge at all to the childe or servant , but onely to the freeman himself under whom they trade . but will any say , that to be a childe of a church-member is no priviledge at all to a childe , but onely to the father ? or will any say , that the childe hath no more priviledge then the servant , sith in the cafe alledged , the servant may trade under the freeman , as well as the childe may ? we suppose none will say this ; and therefore in this the comparison doth not suit the case in hand . the orders and priviledges of corporations are various , according to the tenour of their several charters ; but what the charter of the church is , we know , viz. that in gen. 17. it takes in children into the church with their parents , and doth not allow them to be put out , till censureable iniquity do appear . 2. if in some corporations one that is free-born do lose his priviledge when he becomes adult , if he do not then enter personally into the engagement , yet it is not certain that it is so in all . sure no such thing is said of paul , who yet pleads his priviledge of being a freeman of rome , because he was so born , without mention of any personal act of his own for attaining that priviledge , acts 22. and if paul , being free-born , did retain his freedome when adult , without any personal act of his own for that end , why may it not be so in respect of church-membership , though in all civil corporations it be not so ? it is evident , that the scripture speaks of the children of bond-servants , as bound a●so , and of the children of the f●er , as free also , without mention of any act of the children to procure that relation or state , in the one case or in the other , ●eu● . 25.46 , 54. and we see no reason but it may be so also in the visible church , that if the parent be a member , the childe is so also , and so continues , 〈◊〉 i. e be cut off , not losing his membership by the meer not performin● of what might fit him for full communion . 3. if it were so in all corporations , that a freemans childe doth lose his freedome when adult , if he do not then in his own person enter into the common engagement ; and if it were also so in the church , that a members childe should lose his membership when adult , if he do not then personally coven●nt , ( though this is more then we see proved ) yet if it were so , we see not how this can be prejudicial to the persons spoken of in this fifth proposition . for of them it is expresly said , that they do solemnly own the covenant before the church , and therein give up themselves and their children to the lord , &c. and therefore though freedome in a corporation , and membership in the church , might be lost by not entring personally into the common engagement , and covenant ; yet , except we shall say it may be lost , though this personall engagement and entring be performed and done , except we shall say this , we cannot say that the membership of the persons in question is lost at all , but doth still continue , sith they are such as do thus personally engage and covenant . as for that text , rom. 2.25 . if thou be a breaker of the law , thy circumcision is made no circumcision , which is here alledged again : we refer the reader to what hath been said touching this text before in pag. 33. lastly , whereas the reverend author saith , those texts in rom. 11.16 . 1 cor. 7.14 . gen. 17.7 . are not applicable to the adult persons in question , but onely to infants and children in minority . the answer is , that the synod doth not at all apply them to the adult persons in question , and therefore it is a great mistake so to think : but having said , that these persons are personall , immediate , and yet-continuing members , they do thence infer , that their children are therefore also members , in covenant , and holy , and consequently are the subjects of baptism ; which inference and consequence the reverend author we are perswaded will not deny , if the ground thereof be good , that the parents in question are members of the church , as the synod apprehends that they are . and therefore although the texts alledged be not applicable to the adult persons in question , yet if they be applicable to such infants and little children whose parents are personal , immediate , and yet-continuing members , they do then sufficiently serve the purpose for which they are here alledged by the synod . so much for defence of the sixth and last argument for confirming this fifth proposition . propos. 6. the sixth proposition of the synod , is this , such church-members who either by death , or some extraordinary providence , have been inevitably hindred from publick acting as aforesaid , yet having given the church cause in judgement of charity to look at them as so qualified , and such , as had they been called thereunto , would have so acted , their children are to be baptized . to this the reverend author answereth , that this proposition may not be granted , for it granteth the priviledge of church-membership to such as are not actually and regularly church-members . ans. and yet the proposition , in the very first words of it , doth expresly declare , that what church-priviledge is here mentioned , is not granted to such as are not church-members , but to such as are : such church-members , saith the synod , who , &c. their children are to be baptized . so that though church-priviledges may not be granted to such who are not church-members , yet to the persons here spoken of , the baptism of their children may be granted , without any such undue granting of church priviledges , sith the synod doth not say these persons are not church-members ▪ but doth expresly say they are . all that can be said against these persons , is , that they have not acted according to the fifth proposition : and yet it is said , they have been inevitably hindred therein , and have given the church cause in judgement of charity to look at them as willing to have so acted , and therefore having been church-members from their birth or minority , how can the applying of baptism to their children , be the granting of a church-priviledge to such as are not church-members ? if they had not been hindred from acting as in the fifth proposition , but had indeed so done , yet this is not the thing that would have made them members , they having been members afore ▪ and though they be now adult , yet it hath been proved afore in the fifth proposition , arg. 6. part. 3. that their membership doth still continue ; and therefore the granting of church-priviledges to such as are not church-members , may be yielded to be unwarrantable , without any prejudice to the persons here spoken of , or to what the synod here saith concerning them . and whereas the reverend author doth here lay down two inferences : 1. that an ordinary minister cannot orderly do an act of office to such as are not regular and actual members of the visible church ; but , if he do , it will be usurpation . 2. that the church may not receive into any priviledge of church-communion , such as are not actually in publick church-order . these may both be granted , and yet what the synod here saith not be at all infringed thereby . for , considering that the persons spoken of were church-members long ago , and have never since been cut off or cast out from that relation , nor deserve any such matter , but do still continue therein , as was shewed in the fifth proposition , therefore we cannot see how it can be any usurpation in the minister to do acts of his office towards them , nor unlawful in the church to receive them to such a priviledge of church-communion as is spoken of ; nay rather the persons being and still continuing members , the performance of the thing in question may seem to be so far from being usurpation , as that the neglect thereof may be counted an unwarrantable omission or transgression . the first reason of the synod for confirming this proposition , is , because the main foundation of the right of the childe to priviledge remains , viz. gods institution , and the force of his covenant carrying it to the generations of such as are keepers of the covenant , i. e. not visibly breakers of it , &c. whereunto the answer of the reverend author is , that the parents of the children in question are visibly breakers of the covenant , which was sealed to them by baptism in their infancy , which obliged them to covenant personally for themselves and theirs , &c. p. 47 , 48. ans. but is this certain , that the parents in question are visibly breakers of the covenant ? sure this , if it be affirmed , had need to be soundly cleared . for either they be such as do personally own the covenant , being qualified with knowledge and blameless life , &c. as in the fifth proposition , or else if they have not so acted , they have been inevitably hindred therein , as is said in the sixth proposition : and is it reasonable , that for all this they must be counted visibly breakers of the covenant ? are they such breakers of it , who do publickly own it , and therein give up themselves and their children to the lord , being not culpable for any contrary practice in their conversation ? or are they such breakers of it , who if they have not publickly acted as aforesaid , the reason hath been , because they have been inevitably hindred ? we cannot see that rule or reason will allow or give warrant for such apprehensions . put case a person who was born a church-member , and hath been sound in judgement , and unblameable and commendable in his conversation all his dayes , but hath been , like ioseph , sold for a slave , and kept in bondage , suppose to the turks , or others for many a year : suppose also that after a time he be restored to his liberty , and thereupon do return homeward with his childe or children born to him in his exile and bondage , intending to present himself and his children to the lord in the church where he was born , but before he reach home , he dieth by the way ; this man is inevitably hindred from entring into covenant personally , though willing to have done it , and fit for it : but will any reason or charity permit to count this man a visible breaker of the covenant , because he did not personally enter thereinto ? we suppose this cannot be said , he being inevitably hindred from so acting . why then should the parents in question be judged to be visibly covenant-breakers for not entring into covenant personally , when it is expresly said they have herein been inevitably hindred , though willing to have done it , if there had been opportunity ? for our parts , we dare not judge them to be visibly covenant-breakers , as not seeing any ground or warrant so to do . the second reason of the synod for confirming this sixth proposition , is , because the parents not doing what is required in the fifth proposition , is through want of opportunity , which is not to be imputed as their guilt , so as to be a barre to the childes priviledge . now what saith the reverend author unto this ? doth he deny that it is want of opportunity that hinders the parents from doing what is required in the fifth proposition ? no we do not see that he denieth this at all ? doth he then say , that though want of opportunity hindred , yet for all this want of opportunity , the not doing , though through ●hat want of opportunity , is nevertheless a barre to the childes priviledge ? not so neither ; we do not finde that he so saith , any more then the former : and therefore what was said in the former reason about being inevitably hindred , may be applied to this particular for want of opportunity , viz. that such not doing what is mentioned in the fifth proposition , can be no barre to the childes priviledge . but if the reverend author saith nothing touching this want of opportunity , which is the main thing which is mentioned by the synod in this their second reason , what then doth he say in his answer to this reason ? that which he first saith , is , that it hath been already proved in his examining the fifth proposition , that more is required to fit one that is adult for church-membership , then is there expressed , viz. faith in christ made visible to the church , without which they are not regularly church-members . ans. but the question here is not , whether more be required to membership then is expressd in that proposition ; but , whether want of opportunity in parents to do what is there expressed , be a just barre to the childes priviledge . it is evident that this is the question here in hand , whereto the answer of the synod is negative , that this want of opportunity is not a just barre . but whether it be ● just barre , or be not , the reverend author saith nothing at all to that , but speaks to another thing , that more is required to church-membership then that proposition doth express : so that the thing in question seems not to be touched . yet let us a little consider of this other whereto he leads us , and return back with him to the fifth proposition . concerning which , first , here seems to be a manifest mistake concerning the scope of that fifth proposition , which is not at all as is here intimated , whether what is there expressed be enough to fit one that is adult for church-membership ; but the scope of it is plainly this , to shew , that such church-members as were admitted in minority , if they be qualified as is there expressed , may have their children baptized : but for fitness for membership , that proposition doth not discuss that point at all , but expresly speaks of such as are members already , and were admitted long ago , even in their minority . as for that which is here said concerning his examining that fifth proposition , we referre the reader to what hath been formerly there said in defence of that proposition . further , the reverend author saith , that baptism administred by ordinary officers to such as are out of church-order , is profaned ; as circumcision was by the shechemites , and would have been by the ishmaelites and edomites , if it had been administred to their children , when their parents were not j●yned to the church , or abode not in it in the families of abraham , isaac and jacob. ans. still this makes nothing against administring baptism to the children spoken of in this fifth and sixth propos. except it could be proved that their parents are not in church-order . for the synod thinks , that as they were admitted into church-membership in their minority , so they still continue therein ; and the contrary we have not yet seen proved . as for the shechemites , &c. circumcision might be profaned when administred to them , and yet baptism not so , when administred to the children in question . for , if the former were not in the church , yet these are : and whereas the former were vile and vicious in their lives , these other are farre from any such thing ; and therefore there is no comparison between the former , and these spoken of , but a vast difference . and we may adde further , that as there is difference between those shechemites and the rest , and the persons spoken of , both in respect of church-relation and conversation ; so in respect of this latter , these are farre better then sundry that abode in the family of iacob , to whom he will not deny but circumcision was lawfully administred . we may instance in simeon and levi , who committed that odious cruelty and blood-shedding , for which their father laid such a curse upon them a little afore his death , gen. 49. and if circumcision was lawfully administred to the children of these , they abiding in the family of jacob , how can baptism lawfully be denied to the children in question , or be said to be profaned when administred to them , sith they are children of parents who were once in the church of god , and were never cast out , nor deserving any such thing , but do still continue therein , and for life and conversation are farre from any such scandal and crime as was found in the sons of iacob aforesaid . one end of baptism now ( as it was of circumcision then ) is , to seal church-communion , 1 cor. 12.13 . and is a testimony of the admission of the party baptized into the family of god , the father , son , and holy spirit , &c. ans. this is no just ground of denying baptism to the children in question , except it could be proved that neither they nor their parents are in the church of god , nor of his family , which yet we have not seen proved . the regular and lawfull use of baptism now ( as of circumcision of old ) presupposeth both gods promise , and his faith ( viz. faith for iustification with abraham ) who is to use it , either upon himself , or upon his infant . to use it , being not so qualified visibly , is it not a treacherous usurping of the great seal of the king of heaven and earth ? ans. neither doth this make against the baptism of the children in question ; forasmuch as their parents and they are under the promise of god , i will be a god to thee , and to thy seed in their generations : and the parents being qualified as in the fifth proposition , cannot be denied to have faith visibly , as was shewed by the synod in their arguments for confirming that proposition , and in this defence formerly . sure it is , these parents may as well be thought to have faith visibly , as the sons of iacob afore-mentioned , and as many in the church at corinth , of whom it is said , that they were culpable for carnall dissentions , going to law , fornication , vncleannesses , and not repenting thereof , 1 cor. 1. & 3. & 6. and 2 cor. 12. and yet being in the church , and professing christianity , we suppose the reverend author will not deny but their children might be baptized , and the children of iacobs sons circumcised , and that this in them was no treacherous usurping of the seal of the king of heaven and earth ; and therefore much less can such a thing be imputed to the persons qualified as in the fifth proposition , though the seal of baptism be administred to their children . for it is evident , these persons are farre from such offensiveness as was in those corinthians , and in reuben , simeon and levi , but are much more innocent , yea commendable . so much for defence of the second reason of the synod for confirming this sixth proposition , against what the reverend author , in his answer thereto , saith in his digression , and turning back to the proposition foregoing . the third reason of the synod for this sixth proposition , is , because god accepteth that as done in his service , to which there was a manifest desire and endeavour , albeit the acting of it were hindred ; as in david to build the temple , 1 kings 8. in abraham to sacrifice his son , heb. 11.17 . and in that of alms , 2 cor. 8.12 . as in such as are said to be martyrs in voto , and baptized in voto , because there was no want of desire that way , though their desire was not actually accomplished . to which the answer of the reverend author is , that this may hold in private service , so that there god accepts the will for the deed , when the acting of it is hindred ; but in publick service , he doth not accept of that as done , which is not done , so farre as to bring them into publick state and order , whatever their desires and endeavours have been . and he instanceth in one that desireth to be a minister , and yet may not do the acts of that office , afore he be in office ; and in such as desire to joyn to the church , but may not be received to the seals afore they be so joyned . whereto the answer is , that what is here said is insufficient , as being not suitable to the case in hand , which is not concerning such as are out of church-state and order , as if desires after that state were enough to bring them into it , though their actual entring were hindred . for it is evident , that the synod speaks not of such , but of such as are church-members already , onely have been inevitably hindred from such actings as are mentioned in the fifth proposition ; which actings are not at all spoken of for attaining church-membership , for that state the synod accounts that they have attained already : but the actings mentioned are clearly spoken of for another purpose , viz. for the more orderly , clear , and edifying manner of administration of baptism to their children ; themselves , though being in the state and order of church-members , having not yet been received to the lords supper . it is evident , that the synod speaks of such persons , and of actings for such an end , viz. of persons already in church-estate , and acting for the end aforesaid ; and here in this sixth proposition of obtaining that end , though their actings , as aforesaid , have been inevitably hindred . whereas the reverend author speaks of such as are not in church-state and order at all , though they do desire it ; and of them he saith , that these desires are not sufficient for their admission unto church-priviledges , when their actual entring into church-state is hindred : between which , and those spoken of by the synod , there is great difference ; so that if what he faith were granted , yet what is delivered by the synod is nothing hindred thereby : but though desire of office , or of church-estate , be not sufficient for doing the duties of the one , or obtaining the priviledges of the other , when actual entring into that office and state is hindred ; yet when such as are in church-estate already , do desire to act as in the fifth proposition , but are inevitably hindred from so acting , what should hinder but they may have their children baptized , as if they had so acted indeed ? and why may not the instances of gods accepting of abrahams offering his son , of davids building the temple , and the other mentioned by the synod , be sufficient proofs hereof ? we see nothing to the contrary but they may . whereto may be added that in 2 chron. 30. where the people that prepared their hearts to seek god , are accepted of god in the passeover , though they were not cleansed according to the purification of the sanctuary : yet whatever it was that hindred their cleansing , their preparing their hearts did imply that they did desire it , and hereupon at the prayer of hezekiah they are accepted . and in 1 sam. 30. when two hundred of davids men were by faintness hindred that they could not go over the brook besor , as he and others did , yet he will not yield but that they shall have part of the spoil , as well as others that went down to the battell ; considering that it was not want of will , but want of ability that hindred their acting as others did : and he , as he was in other things , a man after gods own heart , even so he was in this ; and they that would not have had the will of these two hundred accepted , when their deed was so inevitably hindred , are called wicked men , and men of belial . by all which the argument of the synod is further confirmed and cleared , when they say in this their third reason , that god accepts that as done in his service , to which there was a manifest desire and endeavour , albeit the acting of it were hindred . and , if god accept those as martyrs who are such onely in voto , as the reverend author seemeth to acknowledge , pag. 49 why may not the like be said of those who are onely baptized in voto ? we see no reason but that if in the one case god accept them as martyrs , he doth also in the other as persons baptize● . and whereas he saith , to be baptized in voto , will nothing advantage any , as to church-fellowship , because de occultis non judicat ecclesia , and things are not manifested to the church otherwise then by congruous actings . the answer is , 1. that the thing here spoken of by the synod , is not at all of receiving into church-fellowship , as the reverend author carries it , but of baptizing the children of such as are in church-estate already , and have been so even from their minority . 2. nor is the desire they speak of so hidden and unknown , that the church cannot judge of it , but so manifest , that they have given the church cause in the judgement of charity to look at them as so qualified , as is said , and that had they been called thereto , they would have so acted . so that if it were true , that men could not be received into church-fellowship by meer desire of such state , when that desire is secret , and not manifest to the church ; yet men that are in church-estate already may have their children baptized when their desires to act , as is mentioned , are sufficiently known to the church , though their acting hath been inevi●ably hindred . for these cases do apparently differ ; so that what the synod saith in the one , is not overthrown by what the reverend author saith in th● other . 3. it is conceived by some , that those who of the ancients are said to be baptized in voto , were so spoken of , because they were martyred before they could actually receive baptism , and yet that their children were after the death of the parents actually baptized and accounted of the church : which if so , doth testifie , that they counted it a great matter to be baptized in voto , sith in such case they would actually apply baptism to the children , when the parents had not received it actually , but onely in voto , or in desire . and how much more may baptism be applyed to the children in question , whose parents are not onely baptized actually , and not in d●sire onely , but have been actually members of the church even from their birth or minority ? onely they have not acted as in the fifth proposition , but have been inevitably hindred therein , though they have been known to the church to desire so to have acted . fourthly , saith the synod , the termes of the proposition import that in charity , that is here done interpretatively , which is mentioned to be done in the fifth proposition expresly . the reverend author answereth , it s an unwarrantable charity that makes such an interpretation , for it is without warrant of any rule in scripture , or in good reason . ans. but is this certain , that neither rule in scripture , nor good reason , will give warrant for such charity as is mentioned ? if men have been by death , or some extraordinary providence , inevitably hindred from so acting as in the fifth proposition , and yet have given the church cause to look at them as such as would have so acted , if they had been thereunto called , and not inevitably hindred , is there yet for all this no warrant in scripture or good reason for such charity as is spoken of ? for our parts , when god almighty accepts the will for the deed , when the parties inability hinders from doing so much as he would , 2 cor. 8.12 . and when scripture tells us , that charity thinketh not evil , but believeth all things , hopeth all things , &c. 1 cor. 13.5 , 7. we cannot but think it better to retain and exercise such charity as is here spoken of , then to be driven or depart from it , as if no rule of scripture or good reason would warrant it . if that which is mentioned to be done in the fifth proposition expresly , is here done interpretatively , both being put together , will not avail to put the parent regularly into church-fellowship in any sense , and to give the infant a right to baptism thereby . ans. for putting into church-fellowship , the things here mentioned by the synod are not by them alledged for that end ; and therefore if this that is said by the reverend author were granted , the doctrine of the synod is not at all weakned thereby : but if the things mentioned be sufficient for the baptizing of the children of parents who are in church-fellowship already , the purpose of the synod is sufficiently gained . but why do not the things mentioned avail to put the parent into church-fellowship ? the reason rendred , is , because by christs ordinance onely adult persons , who have true faith and holiness , are adult members of the invisible church ; and the same persons making profession thereof outwardly in the order by him appointed , may be members of the visible church , and they onely can give their infant-seed a right unto baptism . ans. and is this certain and clear , that onely they who have true faith and holiness , and so are members of the invisible church , may be members of the visible church , and so their infant-seed have right to baptism ? if this were so , we may question whether it can be lawful for ministers , or any men , to dispense baptism to any persons at all : and the reason is , because they cannot certainly know who have such true faith and holiness , and so are church-members . for what the reverend author said a little before in pag. 49. that though god search and know the heart , yet the church doth not , de occultis non judicat ecclesia ; this we believe to be very true : and therefore if this hold , that none may be members of the visible church , and give right to their seed unto baptism , but onely they who have true faith and holiness , and so are members of the church invisible ; we say , if this hold , how can we know who are to the baptized , sith none can certainly know but god onely , whether men have this true faith and holiness in their hearts and souls ? therefore we think it more safe to say , that where there is a profession of true faith and holiness , and nothing contrary thereto appearing , whereby that profession can be disproved , such persons may be members of the visible church , and so have baptism for their children , whether they be of the invisible church , or no. and if the persons described in the fifth proposition be tried by this rule , we cannot see but as they were in church-fellowship from their minority , so they still continue therein , and so may have their children baptized , in as much as now they make a good profession before many witnesses , even the whole church , and do no way contradict their profession by any scandalous practice in their lives . and therefore , though that be true which the reverend author here saith , pag. 50. that without faith it is impossible to please god , and that therefore there must be true faith in them whom he priviledgeth to baptize their infants : that is , as we understand him , whom he priviledgeth to present their infants to baptism ; yet for all this it may be lawful enough to administer baptism to the children of parents qualified as in the fifth and sixth propos. and they that do administer , may have faith to please god therein , because of the church-relation and good profession of the parents , though the parents cannot please god in presenting their children to that ordinance , if themselves be destitute of the grace of faith : yet this we must still say , that for any that are so qualified as is said , we see no scripture-rule or reason that will warrant us to judge them so destitute . so much for defence of the sixth proposition . propos. 7. the members of orthodox churches , being sound in the faith , and not scandalous in life , and presenting due testimony thereof , these occasionally coming from one church to another , may have their children baptized in the church whither they come , by vertue of communion of churches ; but if they remove their habitation , they ought orderly to covenant and subject themselves to the government of christ in his church where they settle their abode , and so their children to be baptized . in being the churches duly to receive such unto communion , so far as they are regularly fit fo● the same . for confirming of this proposition in both the parts or branches of it , the synod giveth sundry reasons , whereto the reverend author saith nothing in the particulars , but in general , that he locketh at the regular communion of approved churches as an ordinance of christ : but further then so he saith nothing , either by objection against the proposition , or by consent unto it ? but all he saith is by way of propounding quaeri●s , to the number of half a score , or more ; and then concludes , that when these and the like questions are clearly answered , he shall then understand the true and full sense of this proposition , and what to say to it . but when the synod shall come together to answer these questions , whether ever or never , we do not know , nor do see any great probability of such a thing ; and therefore no more being here said against this proposition , we may conclude that it yet stands firm and good . and , as he concludes , that thus much may suffice , for the present , for reply to the synods answer to the first question ; so may we conclude , that thus much may suffice , for the present , for defence of the synods answer against what he saith to the contrary in his reply . concerning the reverend author's discourse upon the second question touching consociation of churches , we shall not trouble the reader with any large reply : and we hope it needeth nor , because there appeared no dissent or dissatisfaction in the synod about that matter . our brethren that dissented in the former question , readily and fully concurred in this , as themselves declare in antisynod●li● , pag. 12. besides , part of the reverend author's exceptions referring to the platform of discipline , concluded on with great unanimity in the synod held at cambridge , anno 1648. ( sundry principal members whereof , as mr. cotton , shepard , rogers , norton , &c. are now at rest with god ) we shall not now after so many years , wherein we heard of no opposition , make that a subject of debate . but if the reader please to take along with him these three or four considerations , they may serve to take off what is here objected against us by the reverend author . 1. that we never said nor thought , that there should be a withdrawing from other churches upon differences , errours or offences of an inferiour and dubious nature , yea though continued in . we are farre enough from hastiness or harshness in that matter , being professed adversaries to a spirit of sinfull and rigid separation : we hope there is no word in the synods conclusions that savoureth thereof , if candidly interpreted . and for withdrawing from brethren because of dissent from what is here held forth by this synod , both our practice and our profession in the preface to that book , do sufficiently shew us to be farre from it . this may answer what is said this way in pag. 54 , 55 , 57 , 63. 2. that we account not consociation of churches to be another thing th●n communion of churches , but onely an agreement to practise that communion , as is expresly said in propos. 5th & 6th . and therefore we understand not why the reverend author should so often praise communion of churches , as pag. 58 ▪ 59 , 60 , 61. and yet dispraise and disl●ke consociation . is regular communion so good and excellent , and can it be hurtful for churches to agree and consent to practise it ? neither do we mean by that agreement , a vow ( as is suggested pag. 56 , 57. ) or a formall covenant in a strict sense ( though mr. cotton doth not refuse to call it a covenant , in keyes , p. 54.59 . ) but onely a declared consent ( as is expressed propos. 7. ) of each church to walk in regular communion with their neighbour-churches . and if the reverend author doth approve of the acts of communion here set down for the substance of them , as it seemeth he doth by what he saith pag. 52. why should it be thought a dangerous matter to agree thereunto for the substance thereof ? we have indeed found in our experience much good and benefit by communion of churches , as the reverend author acknowledgeth , pag. 58 , 61. and his acknowledgement thereof we gladly accept ; but we have also found , that the want of ready agreement timously to attend and exert the acts of communion , hath hazarded the peace and well-being of sundry churches , and exposed them to great troubles . we do not desire by our proposed consociation , to adde any thing to the communion of churches , but onely a vigorous and timous exercise thereof . 3. that we expresly disclaim the subjecting of a church unto any other ecclesiasticall iurisdiction whatsoever , propos. 1. and therefore it is strange that the reverend author should put that upon the consociation by us intended , that it is a subjecting of churches under classicall iurisdiction , pag. 59. it is not the bare consent , or mutual agreement of churches , but the nature of the thing consented to , as , viz. the power they agree to be stated under , that makes it a classical combination , or puts those churches under a classical iurisdiction . what though the voluntary combination , mentioned by by mr. rutherfurd , in his sense doth inferre a classical membership and iurisdiction ? surely it doth not follow that ours does so , when as we expresly disclaim it . but is it true , that where-ever there is a voluntary combination of churches , they become a classical or presbyterian church , and the members by conse●ting thereto , become members of a classical church , and under the power of it , so as to be excommunicated by it , &c. as is said pag. 59 ? what then shall be thought of that known position of dr. ames , medal . lib. 1. cap. 39. thes. 27. which is expresly cited and approved by the reverend author in his reply to paget , pag. 224 , 225 ? surely it is no new thing with congregational-men , but their professed doctrine , with one consent to own some kinde of combination and consociation of churches ; but withall we constantly afirm with dr. ames in the same place , that this combination doth neither constitute any new form of a church , nor ought it to take away , or in any measure to diminish that liberty and power which christ hath left to his churches , but onely it serves to direct and promote the same . 4. let the reader please to peruse and consider the reverend author's eleventh and twelfth premised position , pag. 6 , 7 , 8. and compare them with what the synod hath published touching consociation of churches , and we suppose he will finde such an agreement between them , as that he will wonder ( as we do ) to see the reverend author appearing as an antagonist in this matter . it seems strange , that brethren should be willing to contend both where they do differ , and where they do not . also it may be considered , how many reflexions here are upon us , ( as if we would cast a snare upon churches , by straitning them in the use and exercise of their church-power within themselves in re propria ; as if we would absolutely binde churches not to administer censures within themselves , &c. ) for which nothing published by the synod did give any just occasion . and whereas mr. cotton is represented as being against our consociation , pag. 60.61 . let his printed words be viewed in the keyes , pag. 54 — 59. his solemn speeches of it to sundry be remembred , and his draught of it a little before his death be considered , and the reader will see whether he can joyn in belief with the reverend author about that matter . the lord guide us by his spirit into all truth , and help us to follow the truth in love. finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a50248-e330 it is no very good signe of truth , when there are many curious , nice , & dark distinctions used to defend a thing 〈…〉 enerv. tom. 2. l. 6. cap. 5 quest ult . and his fresh suit , par . 1. pag. 63 , 83 , 134 — 138. vid. rivet . in genes . 17.14 . ames . medul . lib. 1. cap. 41. thes. 7. (e) his words are these : any such notorious offender ( having named athiests , mockers of religion , witches , idolaters , papists ) may have the essence and being of a member of the church , as visit ●e , to wit , in this sense , a corrupt and rotten member , fit to be cut off . a member of the visible church ( though formerly an in offensive professor of the faith ) may afterwards fall away into any of these notorious scandals , and yet for a while still retain the essence and being of a member of the church as visi●le , to wit , till the church have orderly proceeded against him ; otherwi●e the church should want power to proceed to the excommunication of such a notorious delinquent . for what hath the church to do to judge men without ? 1 cor. 5.12 . but such within the church are to be cast out , 1 cor. 5.11 . (a) eadem eeclesia & pies habet secum●●● forma ● interat●● ad se pertinentes , & impies atque hypocritas se undùm extenam adnascentes . jun. animad . in bellarm . p. 1113. (b) it might afford parker an argument as to ( manifestarii peccatores ) the notoriously wicked that they should not be tolerated in the church , but ( as excrementiti●us things ) be purged out by the vigorous , use of discipline , as he there discourses : but it touches not our question . ●oll . enerv. tom . 2. lib. 2. cap. 1. (h) calvin opuscul pag. 346. cartwright catech . pag. 185. (k) disciplina subjacent omn●s in vnitate frae trum 〈◊〉 , oblajante us●●al senem . rat. disciplin . pag. 71. (l) contradictio caret simpliciter omni medio . keck . log. pag. 281. hookers survey , pag. 17. catabaptistae decent non posse excommunicationem in ecclesiam reduci , nisi ij baptizentur qui scientes jugo christi collum submittant . bucer in joh. fol ●5 . see mr. cotton expresly holding forth excommunication to be applicable to such as the children in question , in holiness of church-members . pag. 57. (a) medul . lib. 1. cap. 32. thes. 13. and see cap. 40. thes. 6 , 10 , 11 , 12 , 16 , 18. and m. shepards late printed letter , pag. 16 , 17. (c) catech. explic . in ●uast . 81. pag. 426. (a) ames medul . lib. 1. cap. 38. thes. 41. (c) the scripture order is to ●ake the circumcising of the child part of the parents fitness for 〈◊〉 passover , and for admission ●ereunto [ let all his males be ●●●cumcised , and then let him come 〈◊〉 and keep it ] exod. 12.48 . ra●●er then to make his admission to 〈◊〉 passover a pre-requisite to 〈◊〉 childes circumcision . gerhard . de sacra c●na , p. 184. (b) see ratio disciplina fratrum bobem . in hist. praemissa , p. 3 — 3● . & 39 — ●3 , 52 , 53. opuscul . pag. 37. syntag. theolog. pag. 1149. with pag , 1167 , 1168. (a) lec . com. de can● dom. quaest . 2. pag. 631. (b) 〈◊〉 137. p●g . 7● & vid. quaest. 142. pag. 743. (c) de baptismo quaest. 33 & 34. pag 624 , 625. see the leyden divines , synops. dis●ut . 45. thes. 14. & disput. 48. thes. 35 , 36. co●p●red with d●sput . 44. thes. 50. (d) quaest. & resp. ●● sa●ramentis , quaest. 120 , 122. (e) ibid. quaest. ●45 . syntag. lib. 6. cap. 36. with cap. 55. (e) vid. dutch annot. on 1 cor. 11.26 . (f) de sacra 〈◊〉 , pag 18● . (g) de baptism● pag. 581 , 582. (h) explicat . catech . in quaest . 74. pag. 372 , (i) in quaest . 75. pag. 380. (k) so much parkers learned labours among others shew , and our congregational brethren in england met at the savoy , in their preface do well express : and see beverly examen hoornb . pag. 43. (b) consider whether it be not a greater detracting from the sacredness of baptism , when we make but a light matter of that membership and covenant that was sealed therein . if men have been once admitted to the lords supper , they count their membership stands firm & good ( through all decayes and degeneracies ) until excommunicate . but the solemn covenant & engagement between god and the baptized , that was ratified in holy baptism , wears away , and is a kinde of forgotten thing by that time they become adult . to be difficult in admissions unto baptism , and yet easie in letting go the benefit of baptism ( or the membership thereby sealed ) and to alledge the sacredness of the ordinance for the former , and forget in the latter , seem not well to cohere . 〈…〉 lib. 1. ● . p. ●2 . examen h●ornb . pag. 20. (k) it is not the qualifications of one in full communion , but his membership that gives his childe right to baptism ; for suppose he decay in qualification , and grow formal and loose , yet while he continues a member uncensured , he hath his childe baptized as well as the best in the church . acts 8.27 , 28 , 36 , 37. & 10. ● , 22 , 47 , 48. chemnit . in mat. 3.6 . (a) holin . of church-members , pag. 41. b●nè autē 〈◊〉 nos in genere , de ii● omnibus qui ex fidelibus noscuntur , & f●e deris formula indefinita jub●● , & cha●ita● monet bez quast . de sacram. ●● . 123. (a) de polit. eccles. lib. 3. pag. 168 , 169. (b) de polit. eccl. lib. 1. cap. 29. & lib. 3. pag. 167. protestat . before treat . of the cross. (c) de polit. lib. 3. pag. 171. (d) ibid. lib. 1. cap. 13. & 14. & lib. 3. pag. 166. and of the cross , cap. 9. sect . 2. holiness of church-members , pag 92. (b) medul . lib. 1. cap. 40. thes. 13 (c) magdeb . cent. 3. pag. 83. (d) sicut ergo tempere illius sacramenti , de c●●cumcisō qui nasceretur circumcide●dus ●ait ; sic nune de baptizato qui n●tus fuerit , baptizandus est . august . tom . 7. cont . pelag. lib. 2. cap. 25. see also tom. 2. epist. 23. ad bonifacium ; & epist. 75. ad auxilium . and de grat. & lib. arbitr . cap. 22. (e) ame● medul . lib. 1. cap. 40. ●hes . ● . b) grounds and ends of infant-baptism , p. 28 , 29. prov. 14 , 28. psa. 110.3 . notes for div a50248-e29480 * see essay first , pag. 13 ▪ 4. in ●xam . of prop. 4. a defence of the answer made unto the nine questions or positions sent from new-england, against the reply thereto by that reverend servant of christ, mr. john ball, entituled, a tryall of the new church-way in new-england and in old wherin, beside a more full opening of sundry particulars concerning liturgies, power of the keys, matter of the visible church, &c., is more largely handled that controversie concerning the catholick, visible church : tending to cleare up the old-way of christ in new-england churches / by iohn allin [and] tho. shepard ... allin, john, 1596-1671. 1648 approx. 557 kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from 108 1-bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : 2007-01 (eebo-tcp phase 1). a23641 wing a1036 estc r8238 12381312 ocm 12381312 60763 this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons 0 1.0 universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase 1, no. a23641) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set 60763) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, 1641-1700 ; 267:11) a defence of the answer made unto the nine questions or positions sent from new-england, against the reply thereto by that reverend servant of christ, mr. john ball, entituled, a tryall of the new church-way in new-england and in old wherin, beside a more full opening of sundry particulars concerning liturgies, power of the keys, matter of the visible church, &c., is more largely handled that controversie concerning the catholick, visible church : tending to cleare up the old-way of christ in new-england churches / by iohn allin [and] tho. shepard ... allin, john, 1596-1671. shepard, thomas, 1605-1649. [2], 211 p. printed by r. cotes for andrew crooke ..., london : 1648. "the preface to the reader" dated: from new-england, novemb. 28, 1645. reproduction of original in harvard university libraries. created by converting tcp files to tei p5 using tcp2tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between 1473 and 1700 available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the 25,363 texts created during phase 1 of the project have been released into the public domain as of 1 january 2015. anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. 5% (or 5 pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of 100 instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level 4 of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p5, characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng ball, john, 1585-1640. -tryall of the new-church way in new-england and in old. congregational churches -new england. congregational churches -government. 2006-01 tcp assigned for keying and markup 2006-07 spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images 2006-08 emma (leeson) huber sampled and proofread 2006-08 emma (leeson) huber text and markup reviewed and edited 2006-09 pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a defence of the answer made unto the nine questions or positions sent from new-england , against the reply thereto by that reverend servant of christ , mr. john ball ; entituled , a tryall of the new church-way in new-england and in old. wherin , beside a more full opening of sundry particulars concerning liturgies , power of the keys , matter of the visible church , &c. is more largely handled , that controversie concerning the catholick visible church ; tending to cleare up the old-way of christ in new-england churches . by iohn allin pastor of dedham tho. shepard pastor of cambridge in new-england . veritas nihil crubescit praeterquam abscondi , tertul. sua silentia amat spiritus per quae nobis illabitur , seque insinuat cupidis non gloriae sed cognoscendae veritatis , melanct. let the blessing come upon the head of joseph , and upon the top of the head of him that was separated from his brethren , deut. 33.16 . london , printed by r. cotes for andrew crooke , and are to be sold at the green dragon in pauls church-yard , 1648. the preface to the reader . it was the profession of the lord jesus before pilate , when he questioned with him about his kingdome , john 18.37 . that for this cause he was born and came into the world , to beare witnesse of the truth . many truths about the spirituall kingdom of christ hath he imparted to us , if therfore we be born into the world , or sent into this wildernesse to beare witnesse to his truth , it is unto us reward sufficient , that we should be witnesses thereunto , even to the utmost parts of the earth . wee confesse wee have been too slow in this service of christ , not having to this day set forth an unanimous confession of that form of wholsome words which is preached , received , and professed in these churches of the lord jesus ; and which we are not unmindfull of , though our distances , and other difficulties may delay the opportunity . but this in the meane time we professe in generall , that ( so farre as wee know ) there is the same blessed spirit of truth breathing in the ministery of the country ; the same faith embraced and professed in the churches , which is generally received as the orthodox doctrine of the gospel , in the best reformed churches , and particularly by our godly learned brethren of england and scotland . and though errours have sprung up among us , and some are gone out from us , that we feare were not of us , yet wee have borne witnesse against them , and by the blessing of god , by the breath of christ in the mouths of his servants they have been blasted . neither doe we understand that these churches are accused of any errours about the saving truths of the gospel , and therefore we thought our selves not so much called of god to such a confession at present , as to cleare up to the world those truths we professe about the kingdome and government of christ in his churches , which is the great worke of this age , and of this nick of time . and yet here also we feare that we have been too slack ; for though it bee said , vvee are the volunteers , such as cry up this way , &c. and so it seemes wee are apprehended to bee one cause of these present differences : yet if things be well weighed , we may seem rather to bee farre behinde in the duty that lyes upon us . indeed some briefe answers sent over to some particular persons , to satisfie brethren what our practise is , ( with some briefe touch of our reasons ) rather then to disc●…sse those points , have been printed by some without our knowledge , or assent , upon what grounds they best know . and some short treatises by some reverend brethren have been published to declare their affectionate desires of the unanimous endevours of all our deare brethren , for a generall and holy reformation : but what hath been said or done that either may justly offend the minds of the godly , provoke their spirits , disunite their affections , or hinder a godly reformation ? yea , wee have been too slow to cleare our doctrine and practise from the many objections , harsh interpretations , and manifold criminations cast upon the same , wherein wee feare our lothnesse to intermeddle in these controversies for feare of making the breach wider amongst brethren ; and our desire rather to attend what light we might receive from others in these points wherein wee professe our selves seekers after the truth , have made us guilty of neglect in this our duty . but now we see our selves pressed hereto , by a necessity of justifying our wayes against the many aspersions cast upon them , as well as against the reasons used against them , for wee perceive by the first letter of our brethren , how the with-drawing of christians from the liturgy was imputed to us , and by this reply both in the epistle and divers passages , wee cannot but see what apprehensions are raised of us ; yea , many are apt to think , that if we had said nothing , yet our very act in forsaking the churches of god in our deare native country , and the cause of christ there , together with the practise of these churches thought to bee so different from the reformed churches , have been , not onely a great weakening to the hands of the godly , ( that have stood by the cause of christ ) but also have caused great disturbance to the reformation in hand : to which much might be said , but that wee should exceed the bounds of an epistle . yet let us intreat all the godly wise , to consider and look back upon the-season of this great enterprise , undertaken by us , and the manner of our proceedings in it , with the admirable workings of gods providence first and last about it ; and we think ( though we were silent ) they may easily satisfie themselves , whether this was of god or men , a sinfull neglect of the cause of christ , or a manifest attestation to the truth , by open profession against corruptions of worship in use , and for the necessity of reformation of the church ; and that confirmed by no small degree of sufferings for the same . for was it not a time when humane worship and inventions were growne to such an intolerable height , that the consciences of gods saints and servants inlightened in the truth ) could no longer bear them ? was not the power of the tyrannicall prelates so great , that like a strong current carryed all down streame before it , what ever was from the law , or otherwise set in their way ? did not the hearts of men generally faile them ? where was the people to bee found that would cleave to their godly ministers in their sufferings , but rather thought it their discretion , to provide for their owne quiet and safety ? yea , when some freely in zeale of the truth preached or professed against the corruptions of the times , did not some take offence at it , judge it rashnesse , and to bee against all rules of discretion , who since are ready to censure us for deserting the cause ? many then thought , it is an evill time , the prudent shall hold their peace , and might wee not say , this is not our resting place ? and what would men have us doe in such a case ? must wee study some distinctions to salve our consciences in complying with so manifold corruptions in gods worship ? or should wee live without gods ordinances , because wee could not partake in the corrupt administration thereof ? or content our selves to live without those ordinances of gods worship and communion of saints which hee called us unto , and our soules breathed after ? or should wee forsake the publique assemblies , and joyne together in private separated churches ? how unsufferable it would then have been , the great offence that now is taken at it , is a full evidence . and if in cities , or some such great townes that might have been done , yet how was it possible for so many scattered christians all over the countrey ? it is true , we might have suffered , if wee had sought it , wee might easily have found the way to have filled the prisons , and some had their share therein . but whether wee were called thereunto , when a wide doore was set open of liberty otherwise ; and our witnesse to the truth , ( through the malignant policy of those times ) could not bee open before the world , but rather smothered up in close prisons or some such wayes , together with our selves , wee leave to bee considered . wee cannot see but the rule of christ to his apostles and saints , and the practise of gods saints in all ages , may allow us this liberty as well as others , to fly into the wildernesse from the face of the dragon . but if it had been so , that the godly ministers and christians that fled to new-england , were the most timorous and faint hearted of all their brethren , that stayed behinde , and that those sufferings were nothing in comparison of their brethrens ( for why should any boast of sufferings ? ) yet who doth not know that the spirit who gives various gifts , and all to profit withall , in such times doth single out every one to such worke , as hee in wisdome intends to call them unto ? and whom the lord will honour by suffering for his cause , by imprisonment , &c. hee gives them spirits suitable thereto : whom the lord will reserve for other service , or imploy in other places , hee inclines their hearts rather to fly , giving them an heart suitable to such a condition . it is a case of conscience frequently put , and oft resolved by holy bradford , peter martyr , philpot , and others , in queene maries bloody dayes , viz. whether it was lawfull to flee out of the land : to which their answer was , that if god gave a spirit of courage and willingnesse to glorifie him by sufferings , they should s●…ay ; but if they found not such a spirit they might lawfully fly , yea , they advised them thereunto . those servants of christ , though full of the spirit of glory , and of christ to outface the greatest persecuters in profession of the truth , unto the death , yet did not complaine of the cowardize of such as fled , because they deserted them and the cause , but rather advised divers so to doe , and rejoyced when god gave liberty to their brethren to escape with their lives to the places of liberty , to serve the lord according to his word . neither were those faithfull saints and servants of god uselesse and unprofitable in the church of god that fled from the bloody prelates . the infinite and onely wise god hath many workes to doe in the world , and hee doth by his singular providence give gifts to his servants , and disposeth them to his worke as seemeth best to himselfe . if the lord will have some to beare witnesse by imprisonments , dismembring , &c. wee honour them therein ; if hee will have others instrumentall to promote reformation in england , wee honor them , and rejoyce in their holy endeavours , praying for a blessing upon themselves and labours . and what if god will have his church and the kingdome of christ goe up also in these remote parts of the world , that his name may bee known to the heathen , or whatsoever other end hee hath , and to this end will send forth a company of weake-hearted christians , which dare not stay at home to suffer , why should wee not let the lord alone , and rejoyce that christ is preached howsoever , and wheresoever ? and who can say that this work was not undertaken and carryed on with sincere and right ends , and in an holy serious manner , by the chiefe and the body of such as undertooke the same ? the lord knows whether the sincere desires of worshipping himselfe according to his will , of promoting and propagating the gospel , was not in the hearts of very many in this enterprise ; and hee that seeth in secret , and rewardeth openly , knows what prayers and teares have been poured out to god by many alone , and in dayes of f●…sting and prayer of gods servants together , for his counsell , direction , assistance , blessing in this worke : how many longings and pa●…tings of heart have been in many after the lord jesus , to see his goings in his sanctuary , as the one thing their soules desired and requested of god , that they might dwell in his house for ever ; the fruit of which prayers and desires this liberty of new-england hath been taken to bee , and thankfully received from god. yea , how many serious consultations with one another , and with the faithfull ministers , and other eminent servants of christ , have been taken about this worke , is not unknowne to some ; which cleares us from any rash heady rushing into this place , out of discontent , as many are ready to conceive . wee will here say nothing of the persons whose hearts the lord stirred up in this businesse ; surely all were not rash , weake-spirited , inconsiderate of what they left behinde , or of what it was to goe into a wildernesse . but if it were well knowne and considered , or if wee were able to expresse and recount the singular workings of divine providence , for the bringing on of this worke , to what it is come unto , it would stop the mouths of all that have not an heart to accuse and blaspheme the goodnesse of god in his glorious workes ▪ whatever many may say or think , wee beleeve after-times will admire and adore the lord herein , when all his holy ends , and the wayes he hath used to bring them about shall appeare . look from one end of the heaven to another , whether the lord hath assayed to do such a worke as this in any nation , so to carry out a people of his owne from so flourishing a state , to a wildernesse so far distant , for such ends , and for such a worke : yea , and in few yeares hath done for them , as hee hath here done for his poore despised people . when wee looke back and consider what a strange poise of spirit the lord hath laid upon many of our hearts , wee cannot but wonder at our selves , that so many , and some so weak and tender , with such cheerfulnesse and constant resolutions against so many perswasions of friends , discouragements from the ill report of this countrey , the straits , wants , and tryalls of gods people in it , &c. yet should leave our accommodations and comforts , should forsake our dearest relations , parents , brethren , sisters , christian friends , and acquaintances , over looke all the dangers and difficulties of the vast seas , the thought whereof was a terrour to many , and all this to go to a wildernesse ▪ where wee could forecast nothing but care and temptations , onely in hopes of enjoying christ in his ordinances , in the fellowship of his people ; was this from a stupid senslesnesse or desperate carelesnesse what became of us or ours ? or want of naturall affections to our deare countrey , or nearest relations ? no surely , with what bowells of compassion to our deare countrey ; with what heart-breaking affections , to our deare relations , and christian friends many of us at least came away , the lord is witnesse . what shall we say of the singular providence of god bringing so many ship-loads of his people , through so many dangers , as upon eagles wings , with so much safety from yeare to yeare ? the fatherly care of our god in feeding and cloathing so many in a wildernesse , giving such healthfulnesse and great increase of posterity ? what shall wee say of the worke it selfe of the kingdome of christ ? and the form of a common-wealth erected in a wildernesse , and in so few yeares brought to that state , that scarce the like can bee seen in any of our english colonies in the richest places of this america , after many more years standing ? that the lord hath carryed the spirits of so many of his people through all their toylsome labour , wants , difficulties , losses , &c. with such a measure of chearfulnesse and contentation ? but above all wee must acknowledge the singular pity and mercies of our god , that hath done all this and much more for a people so unworthy , so sinfull , that by murmurings of many , unfaithfulnesse in promises , oppressions , and other evils which are found among us , have so dishonoured his majesty , exposed his worke here to much scandall and obloquie , for which wee have cause for ever to bee ashamed , that the lord should yet owne us , and rather correct us in mercy , then cast us off in displeasure , and scatter us in this wildernesse , which gives us cause with mich. 7. to say , who is a god like our god , that pardoneth iniquities , and passeth by the transgressions of the remnant of his heritage ; even because he delighteth in mercy ? though we be a people of many weaknesses and wants , yet wee acknowledge our god to have been to us a god of many mercies , in respect of that sweet peace which he hath taken away from so many nations , yet continuing the same to us ; in respect also of that liberty wee have in gods house , the blessed ministery of the word , the sweet unity and communion of gods churches and ministers , increase and multiplication of churches , christian government in the common-wealth , and many other mercies wee enjoy , but especially the gracious presence of christ to many of our soules in all these . but wee will not insist much upon this subject , being perswaded it is in the consciences and hearts of many of our dear countrey-men to thinke that we should be an object of love and tendernesse to that state and people , by whose laws and unkind usages we were driven out into a wildernesse , rather then to bee judged as desertors of our brethren , and the cause of christ in hand : with whom ( excuse us if we now speak plainly ) it had been far more easie unto many of us to have suffered , then to have adventured hither upon the wildernesse sorrows wee expected to have met withall ; though we must confesse the lord hath sweetned it beyond our thoughts , and utmost expectations of prudent men . but passing by this wee must desire the reader to beare with us a little in removing that apprehension that wee are the great stumbling block in the way of reformation , which ( if it were true ) it had been better we had been driven so farre into this wildernesse , as never to have been heard of more . concerning our affection to this blessed worke of a publique reformation , of the nation in generall , and the particular churches or congregations of the land in particular , ( as it is best knowne to god ) so wee thinke it is not unknowne to men , not onely here by our daily prayers for it , and sometime solemne seekings of god about it ; but also we have given some testimonies thereof both by private letters , and the publique motions of some of gods eminent servants among us tending that way . we conceive two things specially in our doctrine and practise , that may seem to bee stumbling blocks in the way of this publique reformation , which we shall here remove . the first is our practise wherein wee seem so much to differ from the reformed churches , in receiving to our churches onely visible saints and beleevers . this we doe freely confesse that our practise and judgement doe evidence this to all , that we thinke reformation of the church doth not onely consist in purging out corrupt worship , and setting up the true ; but also in purging the churches from such profanenesse and sinfulnesse as is scandalous to the gospel , and makes the lord weary of his owne ordinances , esay 1. and wee doubt not but this was in the hearts of many , ( if not most ) of gods servants , to desire a separation of the precious from the vile , in the dispensing of gods ordinances ; and if the charity of some be of larger extent herein then others , this hinders not agreement in the maine . this day hath discovered what kinde of people are to bee found every where in the parishes of england : can light and darknesse , christ and belial agree together ? popish episcopall enemies and haters of all godlinesse and reformation , cleave together in one church of christ , with the saints of god ? yet neither our doctrine nor practise do prescribe and limit the way of attaining this reformation , whereby any should justly from our example stand off from concurring in such a publique worke . it is true , where there is no church relation , but a people are to begin a new constituting of churches , reformation is to be sought in the first constitution . this is our case . but where corrupted churches , ( such as we conceive the congregations of england generally to be ) are to be reformed , there we conceive that such congregations should bee called by able ministers unto repentance for former evills , and confessing and bewayling their sins , renew a solemn covenant with god to reform themselves , and to submit unto the discipline of christ . by which meanes such as refuse so to doe , exclude themselves , and others by the severity of discipline should bee purged out , if falling into sinne they remaine impenitent in the same . what some particular persons may have said or done contrary to this our profession , wee cannot say , nor doe we justifie , but wee know nothing that hath come from us to the contrary , to weaken the hands of godly reformers , or to perswade the people to separate from the congregations , if by any meanes they might attaine ( with toleration of what can be ) the reformation thereof , with the liberty of gods true worship therein . if indeed that cannot bee obtained , but men contradict and blaspheme them , as paul separated the disciples , so wee see no other remedy the faithfull have in such a case . the second stumbling block may be our doctrine and practise about church-government , when wee give discipline as well as other ordinances to particular churches , not subjecting them to any government out of themselves ; but onely to take the brotherly counsell and helpe one of another . but how this should hinder a generall reformation we see not , for if every church so reforme themselves ( as is aforesaid ) and have such officers over them as the rule of the new testament requires , 1 tim. 3. tit. 2. wee need not feare to betrust the church ( having such officers ) with that power which we conceive christ hath given to the same , other churches watching over them , counselling and admonishing them in the lord. but if there be not such a reformation of the churches , nor such guides set over them , the power of the keyes in a presbytery of such pastors as may not be according to the rule , may as much abuse them as a particular church may doe , and it may be to the hurt of many who would use them better , in their own congregations , then they can in a classis , being over-voted there . and we cannot conceive but both the care of reforming the matter of a church , and the recalling of the power of government to the church , tends much to further this worke of reformation , no way to hinder the same . and if wee might obtaine that of our deare brethren , which wee humbly crave , viz. that our doctrine and practise might be taken candidly according to our plaine meaning , and declarations , and not represented unto the world under such shapes and formes as make it seeme rigid ( all one with the most rigid separatists , donatists , arminians , socinians , &c. ) we should hope that we shall goe for lovers and friends to a godly and generall reformation , not for disturbers of the same ; but the contrary dealing we meet with too too oft through the mistakes of brethren ; this learned author mr. ball , though in the epistle he desired us to rest assured , that although he had conceived such thoughts of us as leaning to separation , yet he would gladly receive every syllable from us that should dislodge such thoughts , yet against our plaine profession sometime he will needs fasten the opinion of separation upon us , and very frequently sets mr. robinson in a parallel with our opinions , ( as if we generally went that way in those things ) which are well known to be the doctrine of many of our godly and best reformers . the learned may plainly see , how easie it had been for us and upon better grounds to have filled our margents with quotations out of papists and prelates as parallel with many passages of this reply , but we have purposely abstained from so doing , that we might not cast any blur or provoke the spirits of brethren . and seeing we are inforced to wipe off such aspersions , we humbly desire our beloved brethren ( whose learned labours wee honour ) to beare with us if we lightly touch this sore , for wee confesse it brings blushing into our faces , and sadnesse to our hearts , to read so often such harsh imputations cast upon us , which we cannot conceive but ( falling from such pens ) they breed a strange loathing of us in the stomachs of many that read bookes without serious examinations thereof . first , how oft doe wee meet with that imputation , that wee make none members of a visible church but such as are really saints and beleevers , contrary to our frequent profession , that visible saints that are such in judgement of charity are fit matter of the church ? secondly , that we make a vocall church oath or covenant , the essentiall forme of a church , when as wee frequently acknowledge that this covenant which constituteth a church , is either implicite or explicite , and that congregations in england are truly churches having an implicite covenant : and it is far from our practise to use any oath in our covenant , and strange to us to read so many pages against our church oath , and swearing to a covenant , to make our courses horrid and too too rigorous . thirdly , that we set up a popular government , making the elders of the church no more but moderators , &c. and that ministers rec●…ive their power from the people , are their servants , and administer in their name , ( as mr. ball and others object ) when we oft professe the contrary , that all autho●…ity ( properly so called ) is in the hands of the elders , and the liberty of the people is to bee carryed in a way of subjection , and obedience to them in the lord : neither doth it follow from any doctrine of ours , no more then from the ordination of pastors by the presbytery , that they are their servants , &c. fourthly , that if a congregation reject a pastor for no fault , they take both nomen & esse , the name and nature of a pastor from him . for this the reader is referred to our answer of the twenty fift question of the thirty two questions sent unto us , where nothing at all is said , but reference is made to our answer to the nine questions , amongst which the seventh being of this very point , our answer is quite contrary to what is imputed to us . our words are these , concerning the minister himselfe thus deposed , &c. we conceive though hee bee by them deprived of the execution of his ministery amongst them , yet untill hee accept of a call to another people , hee still remaine a minister of christ ; in whose account hee hath true right of administration among the people . now if hee remaine a minister of christ , and have true right to administer , let any judge whether wee take away nomen or esse ; or that wee make church censures worke ex opere operato , clave errante , as is also imputed to us . many such mistakes we finde , but let these suffice to informe the reader how wary hee had need bee in receiving such reports against brethren : and this charity wee have cause the more earnestly to crave of all , that they would reserve one eare to heare what their poore out-cast brethren can say for themselves , because wee are placed at such a distance and disadvantage , that oft-times it is not possible for us to take notice of such objections , and return an answer under a yeare or almost two years , whereby satan hath a marvailous advantage to work strange thoughts and distastefull affections towards us , and fasten them so deeply that hardly they will bee taken off again . but thus it falleth out too too frequently , that when brethren , otherwise deare to each other , differ , in their judgements , and breake out to open contention about the same , they are very apt to make the opinions of the contrary party as unpleasing and absurd to the judgement of others , as may bee , whence griefe , offence , and alienations of affections ( through the subtilty of satan , and the corruption of our hearts ) are ready to follow . and this makes us both fearfull of our selves , lest wee should give way to any unloving thoughts towards the deare servants of christ , or returne any offensive language unto them ; yea , this causeth us oft to bewaile that , which can never bee enough lamented , the sad distances and sharpe contentions between such neare brethren , whom the lord hath so conjoyned in the same cause of reformation . and oh that our deare brethren would beare with us a little here , and give us leave to poure out our humble and affectionate requests and expostulations into their bosomes ! wee would bee very loath to impute any thing to our deare country and beloved brethren that is not evident , or to rip up private failings , and make them publique : but when pulpits and presses proclaime to the world not onely the distances in judgement , but also alienation of affections ; when there is such straining to make the contrary tenents as odious to the world as may bee , such inlarging of differences , as if the wounds could never bee healed ; such gall and vineger poured on , in stead of the salt of savoury speeches , and the oyle of smooth and soft words to calm and pacifie spirits already provoked ; yea , when there want not some that seeke all private letters they can gather up , and search every corner to discover and publish to the world the seeming failings of brethren ; when contentions are grown to that passe , that such orthodox , learned , and godly brethren whose faithfull labours in the lords worke , and great service and use they may be of in time to come , might worthily plead for a roome in the bosomes and inmost affections of their brethren , are cryed out against as not to bee indured in the countrey , because of some difference in some points of discipline : when these things are so , who that have any sense of gods dishonour , or true love to his countreys good , can forbeare from teares , or hold his peace , that have any opportunity to utter his griefe ? wee will not take upon us to say who began this fray , or who have most transgressed the rules of charity and to sedome . the lord give every man an heart that hath failed to bee affected with their owne , and ready to pity and pardon one anothers weaknesses : neither doe wee hereby blame loving and candid debating of differences to finde out the truth ; but give us leave to say thus much to all , ( for our hearts and soules are with all the faithfull servants of christ , that desire according to their light to promote the kingdome of christ jesus , what ever their distance of judgement from us may be ) what , deare brethren , is there no balme in gilead , no physitian to heale this wound ? alasse , how is it now so wide and deep , that at the first was presented to the world so small , or scarce any at all ? when the prelates petitioned for their government , because the reformers were not , nor could ever agree upon one forme : it was professed that in six points ( whereof some are now the greatest bones of contention ) all did agree ; and doubted not but if the prelates were downe , all would agree in one . and was this bare words to put off the prelaticall petition ? or did the author speake without ground at adventures ? god forbid wee should thinke so ; but what the common adversary will think and speak , it would grieve a godly heart to consider . how comes it then to passe the breach is growne so great ? it rejoyced our hearts to see that ingenuous , christian and peaceable disposition in that ever honoured brother mr. herle , who brought the distance in his preface to such a narrow , as if one plaster more might seeme to have healed it ; oh that there had been many more of that peace●…making spirit ! what heart-burnings and contentions had been prevented . wee thought also that meeke apologetick narration gave a faire opportunity of closing with brethren in such things as they professed to concur in , but what contrary entertainment it found , wee lament to consider . and is it now come to this passe , that these who were in a manner one cannot live together in the same kingdome ? oh the depth of the malice and subtilty of that old serpent ! oh the policy and undermining faculty of the jesuiticall generation , ( who no doubt have a great influence in this division ! ) oh the frailties of flesh and blood in gods dearest saints ! oh the unsearchable depths of the lords eternall counsels , that for holy ends leaves his owne to such temptations , and yet knows how , and will assuredly improve all this to his owne glory , and the lifting up of the name and kingdome of christ in despite of all the gates of hell ; and give his servants once a season to sing together this song of moses and of the lambe in triumph over all their enemies . but what ? is the cause past helpe and remedy ? shall we think , alasse , there is no hope , they will not leave untill they have devoured each other , better for us to say nothing , wee shall bee but censured and slighted of all ? god forbid , have wee ventured thus farre , and shall wee not presume a little further ? oh that we were worthy and fit to propound any thing that might tend to mollifie this sore : or that the lord himselfe would speake by such poore creatures any word in season to helpe ( at least a little ) in this sad case ! we will not , deare brethren , make this long epistle more tedious by presenting unto you all that might be said to move and perswade your hearts to study peace and unity , and with one shoulder to set your selves to further this blessed worke of publique reformation , for which the lord hath put such an opportunity into your hands , as never was the like , and god knows , whether ever it will bee , if this bee slipped . wee are perswaded , when the heate of contention is laid aside , the blessed spirit of christ in you doth secretly suggest arguments enough unto your hearts . doe you not oft heare such whisperings as these . are they not brethren who differ from us ? hath not the lord received them ? doe they not stand or fall to their own master , and how shall wee reject or judge them ? have we not our ignorances and frailties ? what , is there no consolation in christ , no comfort of love , no fellowship of the spirit ? or if so , should not this perswade us to bee of one minde in the lord ? doe wee not hope to live in heaven together , and shall wee stand at such distances here ? shall wee thus suffer peace to goe from us , and not follow and pursue it ? shall we lose the blessing of peace-makers ? shall wee by such differences , thus gratifie satan , jesuites , prelates , &c. and strengthen their hands by weakening our owne ▪ are we not in the high-way to devoure each other , and expose all to ruine ▪ is it not high time for us that are one in the orthodox truth , to joyne heart and hand to pray , and preach , and write as one , to stop the floud-gate of errours and abominations that satan hath set open to the drowning of many soules ▪ and the hazzard of many of the sheep of christ , whiles wee are contending about some matters of order which though they bee of moment , yet must give way unto more fundamentall truths ; and oh that this mischief were sufficiently laid to heart ▪ and the dangerous spreadings of such gangrenes looked to in season ! what will not all our vowes , covenants and solemne oaths binde us together ? these and many such heart-breaking considerations wee doubt not are before your eyes daily , which therefore wee will not inlarge . onely give us leave to propound what we conceive in our weake judgement might somewhat tend to heale this distance . wee confesse wee stand farre from the marke , and may misse the matter , but if we doe , let our well-meaning bee accepted , and our weaknesse pardoned . two things , as we touched before , we conceive keep our deare brethren from closing together in one to promote the publique and generall reformation . first , that point of reformation which concernes the members of the churches , and here wee feare the distance at present is great . for when it 's thought , on the one hand , that there is no need of ●…ending godly preachers to the ignorant and prophane parishes to instruct them ; humble them , and prepare them for a gracious reformation , but that pastors ( if they could bee found , should bee sent to them , and minister to them as they are , if they will but joyne in the nationall covenant , as most have done , ( for we see no other required ) and when godly pastors may not have power to try their people whether they can examine themselves , discerne the lords body , and walke according to christ , before they admit them to the lords table , nor may exclude them but upon some scandalous evill , which seemes short of that which even the common-prayer-booke did allow . considering in what a state multitude of parishes are in england , how full of malignants , atheists , prophane wretches , &c. wee must needs acknowledge it will bee very hard for the godly to satisfie their consciences in such church-communion , or godly pastors to minister unto their parishes in such a state , and therefore wee cannot wholly condemn such ministers and people as have been gathered into congregations if there were no hope of remedy in this case . secondly , on the other hand , when some shall gather out of many congregations the most godly and able christians into severed churches , wee must acknowledge it may occasion grief to the ministers of such congregations . but is there no middle way wherein according to god these two might meet ▪ wee suppose there is . if the lord would vouchsafe to help his people in these few things . 1 is it not possible to obtaine of that ●…ver renowned parliament , not onely such liberty for godly pastors , and their churches to debarre from the lords table such as are not qualified according to the former description of the reverend assembly ▪ but also all favour and furtherance from authority to purge out of the church all such according to rule , that live impenitently in any known sinne and scandalous evill ? we cannot doubt but that if brethren would agree with one heart to petition the same , such as have done so worthily many things for purging the house of god , would also promote this needfull point of reformation . 2 if all the godly ministers would joyne as one man , and take unto them the zeale of john bap. thundering out the direfull wrath of god against the pride , vanity , luxury , prophanenesse , and late swarmes of monstrous errors , ( the usuall tares accompanying reformation ) and other sinnes of the time , to lay all levell before the lord ; and with holy calvin , resolve to suffer their hands to bee cut off rather , then to deliver that holy seale of grace to the openly wicked and impenitent sinner ; how would the lord goe out with his servants , and cut downe sin by the sharpe sword of his word , and severity of discipline , if all joyned together ? whereas we feare sin and prophanenesse will out-stare all godly pastors , when they stand so much divided . 3 if these things being obtained and agreed , all godly ministers and christians , which are the salt of the earth , and might by the blessing of god season the congregations wherein they live , they would not cast them off , or withdraw from them , till first by publike and private admonitions and exhortations they had convinced them of sin , and sought by all good meanes their reformation . whereby some no doubt might be gained , and what a blessed worke were that ? and as for others that prove obstinate and impenitent , there would bee just cause of rejecting them from the ordinances and society of the church ; or if this part of the kingdom of christ would not be born in congregations , with how much peace and satisfaction to their owne soules , and to the consciences of all , should such godly ministers and people withdraw themselves from them , to a nearer communion one with another ? and shall wee not hope that england is capable of such a reformation as this , if gods faithfull ministers would with one heart and mind endeavour the same ? farre , farre be it from our deare countrey , after all those notable steps unto reformation , that it should stick in this , which is the life of all the rest . but if it should bee so , that either the great ones should bee too big to stoope downe to the lord jesus in the wayes of his wholsome discipline ; or the multitude so carnall , worldly , wilfull , prophane , impenitent , as not to reforme themselves , families , and so their congregations , humbly submitting to the rule of christ ; or if the ministers ( at least , most of them ) should looke at preferment , honour , credit , riches , authority over the people , and not minde such a work as this is : and this , after all the heavy , humbling , dreadfull judgements of god come upon the land ; after all the glorious out breakings of the light of the gospel in many parts of the kingdome ▪ after all the protestations , covenants , oaths , whereby so many have bound themselves to this particular reformation of themselves , and to further the reformation of the publique ; wee tremble to speake it , but our hearts cannot but feare it , that woe , woe , woe will bee to poore sinfull england . it seemes to us to bee a propheticall speech of mr. bri●●ly ; long since at rest with god , when lamenting the prophanenesse of england , with their connivence at popery , and complyance with the wicked , he saith , that if the lord of hosts doe call for them , ( meaning the popish faction ) to rise up against us in new conspiracies , or open violence , and with them all the crew of wicked and ungodly men , in whom we have so delighted , to take part with those to our destruction , ( as they , it is to bee feared , will be as outragious as the other against all soundly fearing god ) is it not just ? yea if hee should let them make it bellum prodigorum , the day of all the spend-thrifts , and of all the vile persons of the land , to have their fingers in every mans coffers , and their hands washed in the blood of them , whom they have hated , so soon as ever any of the babylonish designes shall take their effect , could wee wonder at it ? and is not this fulfilled in these times ? which wee wish may well bee laid to heart . the second thing which wee conceive may chiefly hinder this closing , is that point of church government , which concernes the power and liberties of particular churches or congregations , and here wee must acknowledge the distance is too great . for 〈◊〉 the one side ▪ ●…ee 〈◊〉 for either by treatises , or by the directory for worship , that congregations are acknowledged to bee compleat churches , especially standing among other churches , or that any power or liberty is given to them to administer church censures , no not so long as they administer rightly according to the rule , but all such power is when indeed from the churches , though in words they are perswaded that it is to strengthen them ; and if this also come down from the catholick church , and so to lesser synods , the greater part having power over the lesse , as it were sure divino , it will 〈◊〉 ●…ore at the liberties and power of particular churches . but what here to say of the distance on the other hand , wee cannot tell , wee see or read nothing , but that our deare and honoured brethren doe freely imbrace communion of churches in consultation synods , for the brotherly helpe of each other , and the weaker churches ; yea , and in a doctrinall way to declare the will of christ , and to threaten his judgements against such as shall refuse wholsome counsell , and withdraw communion from such as wilfully refuse to heare what is propounded according to the minde of christ . and what should we heresay ? but on the bended knees of our soules intreat our reverend brethren to consider what power any o●… many churches can challenge 〈◊〉 another , to require them to give up their right to them , to rule in common , if a sister church purnished with officers shall refuse the same ; or what rule bindeth the churches of an hundred ▪ or any such civill division to come into such a combination with those churches , rather th●…n others , fit but refusing , churches have just reasons to object against such churches , or their officers . we think the more voluntary and free such consociations are , the better . here we shall be hold to propound this one thing , viz. why may not the fifth and sixth articles of agreement publikely professed to the world , in answer to the prelaticall petition ▪ obtaine amongst our brethren , that it may appeare to the disappointment of their hopes , that the treaties being downe , the agreement would be easie ; as is there said . viz. ar. 5. each particular church hath her owne power and authority , and the use and benefit of all the ordinances of christ , neither is there any thing to be done without the expresse or tacit consent of the congregation , in matters which are proper and peculiar to a particular church , whether in election or ordination of ministers , or in admitting or excommunicating of members . ar. 6. it is in many respects expedient both for the members of each church , whether ministers or people , and for the right governing and well-being of the particular churches , in a nation professing christian religion , that besides their particular assemblies and elderships , they meet by their commissioners , ministers , and elders in greater assemblies , that matters that concern all the churches within their bounds respective may with common advice and consent be agreed upon for their good and edification . and we hope the lord may yet have such a mercy for england , if the crying sins thereof bee not still impenitently against this glorious shining light of the gospel , persisted in , which wee confesse is our greatest feare , godly brethren wee hope would agree , if englands sins hinder not . we confesse it was the saddest newes that this yeare came unto our eares that the kingdome of christ is hardly like to obtaine , so much jealousie there is , lest the discipline of christ should crosse the licentiousnesse of this age ; yea , that generally there is no more regard of the solemn covenant , especially in personall reformation ; then if it were never made , that many reject the reformations they seemed to desire at the first . these , with other sad things come to our eares , which sadden our spirits . oh england ! england ! our beloved england ▪ wilt thou not be made cleane ▪ when will it once bee ▪ wilt thou still return the lord jesus , ( graciously striving with thee for to save thee ) such an unkind answer , we will not have this man reigne over us ? hast thou not yet learned so much wisdom , as to kisse the son , no not now when he is angry and the sword in his hand ? that voice of god soundeth oft in our eares , when wee thinke of england , put off thine ornaments , that i may know what to doe unto thee ; but for ought we heare , the pride of england did never so much testifie to their faces as now , when sackcloth and ashes were more suitable . the lord humble the hearts of our deare countrey-men , or else wee feare the yoake of christ will never be born , and how the lord jesus will beare and indure that , we tremble to think . but what doe we thus to take upon us , and let loose our pen so far ? pardon , we beseech you , christian reader , this seeming boldnesse , it is our hearty affection to the peace and prosperity of our deare countrey , and the saints of god in it , that have drawn these things from us . say not , what calling have these thus to admonish and censure us ? censure we doe not , ( that we would doe onely to our selves ) but faithfully to admonish and exhort in the lord , we hope we may presume . neither have we taken upon us this whole weighty worke , of our owne minds , but at the request and call of divers our reverend brethren , whose voice herein we looked upon as the voice of god ; nor have wee accepted that call , out of any iust we have to contend , or enter the lists of disputation with any . wee love the peace of the churches , and unity and concord with all our deare and godly brethren too well , to have any such ends . and though wee are not unwilling to receive and consider any returne that may bee made , and we hope with a mind to submit to the truth ; yet wee must professe two things chiefly inclined us to undertake this worke . first , to cleare up such truths as we conceive to bee according to the minde of christ , which were obscured by this reply . secondly , ( and that especially ) hoping that what wee should write , would tend rather to a peaceable healing of offences and differences , then otherwise ; and therefore have presumed to preface thus farre , and so to present these our affectionate requests to our deare brethren , and country-men , which wee heartily recommend to their serious consideration , and to the blessing of god , who onely can incline the hearts of men , to attend to any thing of god set before them ; though wee bee the meanest and weakest of many , to take upon us , thus to speake to our deare country-men , yet through the grace of christ who put us into the ministery , we have bestowed a great part of our labour in these parts , neither ( we hope ) altogether in vaine ; which makes us somewhat the more engaged and encouraged to write as we doe . and now having thus farre in this epistle , and in the booke following , testified our love to the truth , and desires of the peace , unity , reformation , and prosperity of our beloved england , and the churches of god therein , wee commend both to the consideration of the reader , and all to the grace and blessing of christ jesus , and rest . from new-england , novemb. 28. 1645. tho. allin , tho. shepard . advertisements to the reader . to the epistle of the author of this reply wee say nothing , because it savours ( for the most part ) of love and desire of unity , which we thankfully acknowledge ; onely we cannot but take notice of two passages . 1 a complaint made against some standing affected new-england ward , who have carryed it so , as if a chiefe part of holinesse consisted in separation ; and that therefore some have separated from all private and publique communion there ; others from all publique , but not from private ; others from the sacraments onely , allowing publique communion otherwise . to which wee answer , that as the church fell by degrees into universall pollution , by the apostacy foretold to bee under the man of sin ; so by degrees it recovers it out of it againe : if therefore separation reach no farther then separation from sinnes , and such sinnes of churches wherein our selves in joyning with them must bee involved , wee suppose such separation ( all due respect and love reserved and professed to the churches themselves ) cannot justly bee accounted unwarrantable ; and 't is the profession of the author in his epistle , to plead for communion with the churches of christ , no farther then they hold communion with christ : if any transgresse these bounds , either in respect of private or publique communion in england , wee must professe openly , that if any mourn for it , wee are ( or would bee ) companions with them in that griefe . whose heart bleeds not to see gods flock scattered , and needlesse rents made ? that scarce truth or errour can now adayes bee received , but it is maintained in a way of schisme ; directly contrary to the gathering and uniting spirit of jesus christ : a wide conscience calls evill , good , and therefore can communicate with any evill ; a strait conscience cals good , evill , ( as gerson observes ) and therefore can readily separate even from that which is good . when rash and sudden men are grown masters of their consciences , it troubles not them from whom they divide , nor whither they run in separate wayes ; when weak ( yet godly men ) are under the tendernesse , ( yet much darknesse ) of conscience , being very timorous of wayes that are evill , grow many times shy ( at least in simplicity are led ) from wayes that afterward are found to be lawfull and good . 't is the usuall misery of english spirits , either to spin the spiders web , and swallow down all corruptions in churches ; or so to breake downe the gap in forsaking corruptions utterly to abandon the churches themselves : the wine of causelesse separation hath a spirit in it , ( if god graciously prevent not ) that hurries men headlong to strange distances , that in separating from publique , they separate from private ; in separating from corrupt churches ( as no churches ) they separate from the purest , even those of their own ; in separating from pollutions of gods ordinances , at last they fall to the storming of some , if not to the utter renouncing of all the ordinances themselves : we mourne ( wee say ) for such evills , and could with bended knees desire our deare countrey-men to consider , whether this bee the spirit of christ jesus that so carries them ; to reject them whom the lord jesus hath not yet wholly forsaken ; and not rather with one heart , and with bowells of compassion ( if any liberty can bee procured ) to study how to heale the bleeding breaches , and manifold evills of sick and sinfull england , that in their owne recovery from pollutions , the whole may arise and share alike with them therein ; tolerating with all long-suffering many things amisse , & mourning daily after the lord , till such times come wherein he wil give his people his ordinances , not only in purity , but also in power ; when the lord shall be one , and his name one , zach. 14.9 . over all the earth . as for our selves , wee look not upon our departure to these parts to be a separation ( rigidly taken ) but a lawfull secession , or a heavenly translation from corrupt to more pure churches , by the hand of our god ; and how far we allow of separation , the ensuing treatise will declare . 2 the second is , that we dissent one from another as much as others from us , and perhaps the lesser part of us . answ . we confesse we know but little , and that but in part , and therefore if we should say , that in some things we did not dissent , we should not speak the truth , nor say that we were sinfull men ; yet this we must speak to his praise whose we are , and whom we serve with our spirits in the gospel of his son ; that although satan hath been oft busie to make breaches among us , yet the ministers of christ have been hitherto generally ( if not all ) of one heart and mind in the maine and principall things of his kingdom amongst us : and ( which is observed by many ) where ever differences are sown , yet the ministers never disagree : and that although some differences have and doe arise before their convening together , yet they never yet met , but grace hath over-wrestled corruption ; peace , trouble ; and truth , errour ▪ and so have most sweetly accorded in one ; the thoughts of which christ-like peaceablenesse of spirit and love , as it oft sweetens many other sorrows , so we desire to bee spared herein ▪ and that this our crowne may not bee taken from us by such passages , ( suggesting great differences ) as these be . now for the reply it self , we desire the reader to consider ▪ that we had neither time , nor bookes rea●…y at hand to consider some of the quotations made in 〈◊〉 argent ▪ and therfore being such testimonies 〈◊〉 cast not the ballance one way or another , we have passed most of them by with silence . it had also been easie for us to have analysed more orderly the words of the reply , then as they are set downe ; but ( because we would not doe the least wrong ) we have set them down as we finde them in the book ; not every passage ( for that were needlesse ) but those things wherein there seemes to bee any observable matter of dispute between us ; nor are we conscious of doing the author the least wrong in setting down his own words , as hereafter you find them . we confesse , that in sundry of our answers , we have studied not onely to answer to the reply , but have taken in what sundry others godly learned object against our principles , but without mentioning ( scarce any time ) their names , of which we are sparing for no other reason , but because we honour the men from our very hearts , and could wish ( though differently minded from us in some things ) as melanchthon did in another the like case , to live and die in their bosomes . the name of this servant of christ now asleep , is an oyntment poured out and precious to us ; we could therefore have wisht it our portion to have answered the booke without the least reflecting upon him , but the necessity herein is unavoydable . this onely we adde , that whatever weaknesses may passe from us , let them not bee imputed to those servants of christ , that set us on work , and have wanted leisure to review what is here done ; every one may not bee in all things of the same mind with us , for they may meet us in the same end , though they use not the same arguments , or become followers of us in the same path ; yet we know wee are not alone in any thing , but may safely say this much , that what is here defended , is generally acknowledged and received in these churches of christ . a defence of the nine positions . chap. i. concerning the title . whereas it is called a new church-way ; wee little expected that brethren studious of reformation , who have been so exercised with imputations of novelty , would have so readily , and in the frontispice cast the same upon us , who with them desire to walk in the first wayes of our lord jesus christ and his holy apostles ; but as in most substantiall points of church-order , wee goe along with the best reformed churches , so wee doubt not to make it good that wherein wee ( pressing after further reformation ) seeme to differ from them ; yet wee build upon scripture grounds acknowledged by many godly and learned reformers , in our english and other reformed churches ▪ which , if the lord have in mercy given us further ●…ight , ( or rather opportunity to practise ) then they had , let it not bee imputed to us for novelty . a new edition of the old church-way of godly reformers , in some things perhaps corrected and amended , is no new church-way ; or if it be thought the mending of some crooks in the old way make a new way , wee answer with junius in a case not unlike ; vt cunque n●…vam esse vide●…tur , 〈◊〉 quaecunque sunt vetera , fuerunt nova , ac non propter●…a nov●…tat●● nomine vitiosa , nisi forte novam pro renovatâ & restitutâ accipitis ; quo sensu●… novam esse hanc viam agnosci●●● . one thing more in the title page the reader is to take notice of , that whereas it is said , this treatise of mr. ball was penned a little before his death , and sent over 1637. it seemes to bee a mistake of the printer ; for the nine questions themselves were sent over 1636 , the answer returned 38 , but miscarrying , another was sent 39. from which time wee longingly expected a return , but partly for the reason rendred in the epistle , and what else wee know not , wee never in so many yeares received any , till this printed reply by a friends meanes came occasionally to our hands , 1644. concerning the epistle to the reader . whereas the publishers of this treatise impute unto us , or some related to our cause , that we are the volunteers , such as cry up this way , and forward to blow such things abroad in the world , which pressed them to make this controversie publique . 1 wee may truly professe before the world , that our epistle sent with our former answer , proceeded from a spirit of love and peace , with an humble willingnesse to receive further light , by the holy and just animadversions of our reverend and bel●●●d brethren , which wee earnestly expected as men 〈…〉 after the truth . 2 that wee were altogether ignorant of the 〈◊〉 of that our answer ; and in that it was published then , was not without our utter dislike ; wee have neither sounded trumpet , nor struck up drum to any ( if any such ) volunteers , wee heartily grieve that there are any differences between brethren , much more that they should bee published ; most of all , if before they bee privately debated , and brought to some head by mutual consent , are thought fit to be sent out to publique considerations . 3 for our brethren in england , we know no reason to question the truth of that apology of our brother , mr. thomas weld , in his answer to w. r. pag. 2. obj. 3. answ . 1. where he professeth in the name of himselfe and others of our way , a lothnesse to appeare in the case , and that although they had bookes of this subject ready for the presse , yet by joint consent they suppressed them , ( happily to the detriment of the cause ) being unwilling to blow a fire ; and whether they appeared in pulpit or presse without instigation , and how sparingly , hee appeales to all the godly to judge . 4 lastly , wee desire our brethren to consider the date of mr. ball his booke printed for stinted liturgies , ( one chiefe part of this controversie ) and the printed answer to the nine questions , and let that resolve the question , who of us came first volunteers into the field ; and if any through weaknesse , or zeale without knowledge , have been too clamorous to cry up new-england way , with reproach to others ; wee desire the world to take notice , that they have neither patent nor patterne from us so to doe , who came not hither proudly to censure others , but to reforme our owne . chap. ii. qu. 1. that a stinted forme of prayer and set liturgie is unlawfull . reply . this position cannot beare that meaning which you give it , if you take it according to our minds , and the plaine construction of the words . we never questioned why you made not use of a liturgie , &c. answ . let our answer bee viewed , and it will appeare that wee had just cause to premise those distinctions of formes of prayer into private and publike ; and publike into such as are imposed by others , or composed and used by ministers themselves before their sermons ; otherwise we must have involved such in the position , as wee doe not condemn . now if your generall thesis justly admit such limitation to publike imposed formes , where shall wee finde any set stinted imposed liturgies , but in churches of the papacy or prelacy ? no reformed churches stinting or imposing their formes of prayer , but leaving ministers and people at much liberty . onely the english liturgy therefore is such , according to the plaine construction of the words . 2 concerning your minds in the position , wee deny not but you might intend to draw from us an approbation of stinted liturgies in generall , that so you might have to stay the separation of people from your liturgy , whereof you complaine : but by that it appeares plainly , what your chiefe scope and ayme was in the position : according unto which wee thought it most safe and pertinent for us to answer . and this wee did the rather , for our reason mentioned in our letter , because though all of us could not concurre to condemne all set formes as unlawfull , yet wee could in this , viz. that though some set forms may bee lawfull , yet it will not follow , that this of the english liturgy is , therefore to remove all obscurities , and breake all snares , and resolve the question in the true intent of it , wee were forced to distinguish of formes , and so touch the true helena of this controversie ; and therefore if any shall narrowly observe mr. ball his large defence of set forms in generall , they shall finde those wings spread forth in a very great breadth , to give some shelter and warmth to that particular liturgie , then languishing , and hastening ( through age and feeblenesse ) towards its last end . reply . it is true , people separate from our liturgie , because stinted , not because this , or that , or ours in particular . answ . if because it's stinted , then because yours , for we know none properly such , but yours , and it may well bee one offence to all godly consciences , that yours are so imposed and stinted as they bee : though it is hardly credible to us , ( so farre as our observation reach ) that the main causes of the godly withdrawing from your liturgy , should be the stinting of it , when so many corruptions in matter and forme have been objected against it , by the best godly reformers . and seeing the same persons will joyne with prayers of godly preachers , though they use the same forme of prayer usually , and so in a large sense freely stinting themselves thereto , though not properly in such sense as your liturgy is stinted . reply . but say you , such set formes used by preachers are disliked also , and your reasons , especially the two last , why you admit not a stinted liturgie , conclude against both in our understanding . answ . wee deny not but some may dislike the constant use of such formes , especially when studiously framed with elegancy of phrases , and as the manner of some is ; but doe any we now speak of , condemne all use thereof ? or withdraw from them that use them ? which is now the case in hand : for our parts , wee neither know such men ; or if we did , we should condemn such minds . as for our reasons in generall , or the two last you mention in particular , it passeth our understanding to conceive , how any such inference can bee made ; if the reply had formed the inferences from our arguments , it may bee wee should have seene more by the helpe of such spectacles . but passing over what we say to the position , as we interpret it , you think fit to advertise us of some things , which are six . reply . advert . 1. your reasons why you accept not a stinted liturgie , are ambiguously propounded , and so , that such as looke at stinted liturgies as images , forbidden command . 2. may easily draw your words to their meaning . answ . if our reasons themselves being sound , and unanswered by you , contain any thing that may be drawn to such a position ; that cannot arise from the ambiguousnesse of words which are plaine , but from their abuse who mis-apply them . reply . advert . 2. the reasons you bring against a set forme of prayer , doe hold as strong against a set forme of catechisme , confession and profession of faith , blessing , baptizing , and singing of psalmes . answ . 1 concerning forms of catechismes , and confessions of faith , if religiously and perspicuously framed , wee account them of singular use , ( though abused by men ) nor without some sacred allowance : yet from hence to infer the like use of set formes of prayers , neither our reasons , nor any other will in force : for catechismes and confessions ( as well as psalmes ) in the nature of the thing , require in some sense a set and limited forme ; but publike prayers , though they may admit of a set and comely order in the generall , to prevent errour ; yet of their owne nature they require no set forme ; for god gives us no new matter or doctrine daily to be beleeved , but he gives new matter of new affection in prayer daily . 2 if by set forms of catechismes and confessions , bee meant ( according to the termes of the question ) stinted formes , like stinted liturgies , i. e. beyond , or short of which , ministers may not teach , or christians beleeve and professe , then wee should say the same of these as wee doe of stinted formes of prayer ; wee confesse there is danger in casting by all formes of confessions and catechismes , lest through the instability of ungrounded and heady men , pretending new light , or searching after further light , the churches adhere to nothing : and their faith ( as the learned leyden professors terme it ) become fides horaria , or menstrua , the faith of an houre or moneth , and then cast it off the next . and on the other side there is danger , that by imposing such confessions too far , that which is indeed further light be supprest ; wee therefore thinke it usefull and needfull to pave out such high wayes of catechismes and confessions , so as the subjects of christ jesus our king and law-giver may walke therein without shackles , reserving liberty for further future light , in points lesse cleare , yet standing in a readinesse alwayes to confesse and hold fast the present truth which appeares most cleare . 3 concerning forms of blessing , baptizing , singing scripture psalmes , there is a far differing reason from this case , for the lord himselfe hath left us formes in these cases , not onely for instruction , but allowing the use of the same , as numb . 6.23 , &c. luke 10.5 . matth. 28.20 . 2 chron. 29.30 . and therefore such may bee used as hee hath left ; yet the lord hath not imposed ( some of these at least ) to bee used alwayes and onely in his churches , much lesse doth hee allow any man to impose their own forms upon his churches , or conforme to such as are tyrannously imposed . reply . third advert . we have not called you at this time to witnesse for , or against the corruptions of the common-prayer-book , this you fall upon by straining the sense of our demands . answ . wee have spoken to this before , and we thinke whatsoever your intent and desire was , yet the nature of the thing , and the case it selfe gave us a just call to testifie against it , especially seeing the corruptions then increased in england , and the impositions were more rigid and violent . reply . the reasons you bring against the communion-booke , wee cannot approve them all ; the exceptions against it wee know , but to esteem the whole for some corruptions found therein a monument of idolatry , that we have not learned . answ . the answer calls it not a monument of idolatry for some corruptions onely found in it , though the corruptions in matter and manner , bee objected as the first reason why wee used it not ; but being never commanded of god , greatly abused unto idolatry and superstition , and of no necessary use , the same that was in popery for substance , which are the usuall arguments for abolishing images , ceremonies , and all monuments of idolatry ; and wee marvaile how any could passe over these things in the answer which might evince it to bee a monument of idolatry , as the argument of the abridgement to which we referred , doth prove . reply . the argument in the abridgement used against conformity to the ceremonies , did not in the judgement of the authors hold against the liturgie , of which judgement we are . answ . it matters not whether they saw so far , and so judged , if indeed the reason and nature of ceremonies , and the book be the same ; for the first reformers thought their arguments strong against oyle , creame , and spittle , &c. in baptisme , but saw not that they would hold against the crosse , surplice , &c. as well ; yet we doubt not but the reverend author did judge of all in the same manner ; and so it is in this case . reply . advert . 4. if these reasons bee intended onely to shew why you receive not our forme of administration , it is that which wee are perswaded you know we never required of you , if to disallow the use of the book amongst us altogether in things lawfull , good , and pertinent , they will not hold weight . answ . 1 wee were told in the first epistle of our reverend and deare brethren , that whiles wee lived in england , wee joyned in the same ordinances and purity of worship , and therefore wee might have some just cause to cleare up our differing practise from disusing that forme of administration there , considering that our differing practise might occasion others to rend off from your administrations there , whereof your complain . 2 we doubt not but in the popish forms of masse , matten , and evensong , &c. some things lawfull , good , and pertinent may bee found , yet would not the godly allow these very reasons wee alledge in the answer sufficient to refuse the whole forme , and so those good and lawfull things in that forme ? as that they are devised by men , without the command of god , imposed by an antichristian power , abused to idolatry and superstition , wherein the people place much holinesse , and necessity , full of scandall , &c. and if these reasons do not hold against this forme in the communion booke , the reply should have acquited it from them : or else the consequence must bee yeelded in this case , as in the other , notwithstanding all the good and pertinent things therein . john simpson , and john ardly martyrs in q. maries dayes , and faithfull witnesses , made answer to the sixt article of bonner , concerning the masse , that 't is of the pope , not of christ , and therefore not good , not having in it any goodnesse , saving gloria in excelsis , the epistles and gospels , the creed and pater noster ; and for this cause ( they said ) they have not , nor will not come to heare masse : the same answer was made by six more in those dayes , mentioned by mr. fox . if therefore corrupt formes may bee used because of some things good and lawfull mixt with them , there should have been shewn us some proofe for it , but if the meaning bee , that there may bee a lawfull use of those things which are lawfull and good in it : wee say so too , ( due circumstances of their use being observed ) but then wee fall off from the question between us ; otherwise wee know that things lawfull and good in themselves , yet ( not duly circumstantiated ) may be evill and scandalous in their use . heare what paul saith , it was lawfull for paul to eate some kindes of meat , yet if it maketh my brother offend , i will eate no flesh whiles the world standeth , 1 cor. 8.13 . heare what the authors of the second admonition to the parliament say , in queen elizabeths dayes , the booke of common-prayer , which of all others must not bee touched , because they have gotten the state to beare it out , yet hee hath but a bad conscience , that in this time will hold his peace , and not speake it for feare of trouble ; knowing that there are such intolerable abuses in it : if there were never an ill word or sentence in all the prayers , yet to appoint it to bee used , or to use it , as the papists did their mattens and evensong , as a fit service to god , though the words bee good , yet the use is naught . but if this seem too sharpe , heare what — a late godly and learned writer speakes , rejicimus illas precum , cultusque publici formulas , quae tyrannide quâdam , conscientiis hominum , ut cultus divini partes essentiales impo●…untur ; quamvis quoad materiam sunt legitime dispositae , quoad formam & modum tamen quo inducuntur , illegitima crudelitatis instrumenta fiunt , & praetextus improbae malitiae & occasiones violentae tyrannidis in dignissimos & optimos ecclesiae filias . reply . advert . 5. you are generally ( you say ) loath to med●…le with the affaires of other churches , unlesse necessarily called thereunto : but when some upon request ( as we suppose ) of private friends , and others out of their zeal and forwardnesse have laboured to draw many to separate from the sacrament , because ministred in a stinted liturgie , wee cannot apprehend any just ground of this apologie ; the ●…ent is wide , and some brethren had their hands deep therein , which made us crave your judgements and the reasons thereof , to make up the breach . answ . 1 what you impute to some , if justly , wee grant will not allow this apologie to bee generall for all ; but how many that some is , or who we know not , it may bee one or two ; and if so , one or two exceptions will not much infringe a generall rule , nor hinder this generall apology . 2 if such brethren had a necessary call to speake or write what they did , it hindreth not our apologie at all : the desire of private friends , which you onely suppose the moving cause , might bee very weighty , the satisfying of tender consciences of neare friends , or such as once depended upon our ministery , in such a time of pressing humane inventions upon men , as that was ; might bee a very urgent call to interpose : but that any have endeavoured out of zeale to draw many to separation from the sacrament , upon such a ground as you say ; as we utterly dislike such fire upon the top of the house , so it must be proved , before we can call to minde or acknowledge any such thing . reply . advert . 6. j. d. object to mr. p. that his manner of preaching ( proceeding it should be ) was disorderly , in carrying to the classis a matter , before hee had declared it to the church , &c. and may not we with like reason object that this manner of proceeding is disorderly , in seeking to draw men to separation , because of a stinted liturgie , before you had shewed us or other brethren , whom it may concren , by scripture , or reasons that a stinted liturgie is unlawfull ? answ . what j. d. objects , wee cannot tell , seeing you neither quote the place , nor the printer give us his words in any way to make sense ; but so far as we guesse at the meaning , the case is very wide from this in hand . j. d. might justly complaine of wrong offered to him and the church , in neglecting them , to goe immediately to the classis , and yet some of our brethren , at the requests of tender consciences , might declare their judgement , when no rule called them to write to their pastors , which perhaps , were bitter persecutors , or if better , yet such as they had no knowledge of ; and if any by such writings did abstaine from the sacrament for such corruptions , as their consciences would be defiled with , no hinderance from us was in the way , but that you might call them to account before the church , and convince and censure them , if there were just cause ; which was the objection against mr. p. in flying presently to the classis . chap. iii. 2 position . that it is not lawfull to joyne in prayer , or receive the sacraments , where a stinted liturgie is used : or , as wee conceive your meaning to bee in this as in the former , &c. viz. where and when that stinted liturgie is used . reply . if we mistake not your judgement and practise both , you have born witnesse against both that you call the rigid separation , and this more moderate also ; and wee humbly wish that the moderate doe not degenerate into the rigid ere long ; it is very strange if they take not great encouragement upon your grounds . answ . if you will needs account not joyning in that stinted imposed liturgy , to bee a moderate separation , wee must confesse , we have witnessed against such separation ; yea , not onely conformed to that corrupt worship , but also to divers of the ceremonies thereof , some of us with shame before the lord may confesse it : but we desire that may be no prejudice to the truth since discovered to us : but wee have ever conceived , that the separation witnessed against , both by your selves and us , have been such as to separate from the churches of england as no true churches , the ministery , as no true ministery : their separations from corruptions in doctrine and worship , their endeavour to enjoy all the ordinances of the lord jesus in purity , if wee bee not mistaken , your judgement and practise with ours , have alwayes approved ; and the question now in hand is not about a new kinde of separation more moderate , from the churches and ministery of england ; but whether the liturgy of england be not indeed one of those corruptions in worship , which you and wee had need reject , as well as the ceremonies , and no longer conforme to the same . and wee heartily wish that the growing endeavours of the godly , after more purity of worship , and to bee purged from all the pollutions of the man of sinne , bee not too rashly branded with the odium of separation : and breach of peace and unity of the church . as for degenerating into the rigid separation , wee think you need not feare it , upon our principles , no more then upon the common grounds of non-conformists , and you know what they inferre upon those principles , now justly it concernes you to consider , as well as 〈◊〉 ; but as it is truly observed in england , it was the justification and pressing of ceremonies and other corruptions , that drave many to separation , not the endeavour of further reformation ; so you may feare , the too too much conformity of ministers to humane impositions , and justification of the liturgie , &c. have and will more dangerously alienate godly minds from your churches and ministery , and so drive to separation ; then all the principles and progresse of the godly in wayes of reformations : and wee shall refer it to the judicious and common experience , whether the discovery of the corrupt worship in the liturgy , or contrary conformity to it , be the greater block of offence , and strengthens the hands of the separatists most , which yet you after object unto us . wee suppose the worthies of this renowned parliament , together with those of the reverend assembly , would not so soone have removed the whole frame and fabrick of this book , nor wholly stopped up this pit , if building of battlements about it , and keeping watchmen neare it , to bid passengers take heed , had been the readiest way to cure separation : nor doe wee thinke that this reverend man of god , would have been in more jealousie and feare of us ( if hee had considered how tenderly we returned our answer to the question ) then of those faithfull witnesses in scotland , who separated their lives into the hands of death , rather then communicate in the use of this booke ; and yet wee thinke they deserve a better place , then to bee ranked so neare to the rigid separation ; notwithstanding for our selves we are heartily thankfull for what he humbly wisheth , and for his jealousie over us so farre as it is godly ; but so farre as such wishes cast a cloud of evill suspition over us in the hearts of others , as if we were going faster then we knew where to stay , we wish humbly such words had been spared till some other time . concerning this distinction , a letter of this subject is cited , printed without the authors knowledge , that put a difference indeed between the reasons of the separatists proper to them qua tales , and other reasons used by himself , common to others studious of reformation . to which we answer . 1 that letter acknowledgeth no such distinction of separation , rigid , and moderate , onely ( if you will ) a separation from churches , and separation from the sins and corruptions of churches , which latter is all we professe . 2 those reasons which the letter ascribes to them , qua t●…les , will wee suppose bee found in their books thus farre , that the prayers , preachings , sacraments , &c. are unlawfull , because offered in a false church by a false ministery for the subjects of antichrists kingdome . that there should be no separatists in the world , because none , it is said none ▪ plead against the booke of common●…prayer as unlawfull , because offered up in a false church ; is strange to us , that this learned author should not read or observe the same , exceeding frequently in the separatists writings ; take but a taste in the first pages of mr. smith against bernard in his parallels , censures , and observations , his words pag. 9. are these , hee would prove that an erroneous constitution of a church , is a reall idol ; and the prayers they offer with the prayers of the wicked , comming from that false constitution , are tainted with the idolatry of that constitution . and pag. 10. it is idolatry to offer up service to god in a church of a false constitution . and pag. 13. tell mee mr. bernard ▪ can there be a true ministery , true baptisme , true faith , true prayer , true preaching and administring the supper , true excommunication , in a church which is falsly constituted ? did the lord accept the sacrifice of the church constituted by jeroboam ? so page 14. a church falsly constituted , is not accepted of god , neither are their actions ecclesiasticall , as prayer , preaching , &c. acceptable in the sight of god. and againe , a false ministery , worship , government , may bee in a true church , through ignorance , and the like : but a true ministery , worship , government cannot possibly bee in a false church . we thinke it needlesse to recite more testimonies ; aliquando honus dormitat homerus , a good memory may sometimes fall asleep , and not see that , which is sometimes most obvious and visible . but what other arguments they have , are , or may bee common to others studious of reformation ; as their arguments against ceremonies are common with non-conformists , and therefore if some of our grounds bee found in them , it doth not follow , they are ●…afts taken out of the same quiver , and peculiar to them , as you object . reply . these reasons shall be common to all , that plead for the purity of gods ordinances , which were never taken to bee sound and true , either by the reformed churches abroad , or by the godly brethren at home , dead or living , or yet by the most of the brethren amongst whom they live , and ●…old society , or by any minister and society holding the unity of the spirit in the hand of peace , th●…se 1400 ▪ years and upward , unlesse within these few dayes , and that by a few onely . answ . here is a great colour of novelty and singularity objected to be in the grounds and reasons of the letter , used against conformity to the liturgy : but it is easie to conceive that the same common grounds of all reformers , may be justly carryed on against such further corruptions , as they never ●…aw : not attending their owne principles in such particulars , as was said before of the first reformers , that purged out salt , creame , oyle , &c. not the crosse , &c. and so here it may fall out , that as the lord is pleased to let in more light in this or that particular corruption ; so upon common grounds it is rejected , though yet but one or few apply those grounds to such a particular case . neither here was the number so few as is pretended , when this reply was drawn up , or else at least , it is much increased of late time , since the assembly and parliament in england have so openly in their directory witnessed against such stinted formes , and generally the churches of scotland renounced that liturgy of yours , as a piece of popery . besides all the orthodox churches in new-england , and holland , and many godly in england . reply . as yet wee thinke most of them , that have separated are not so farre gone , as to condemne all our assemblies as no churches of christ . answ . by this you seeme to insinuate , that notwithstanding our acknowledgement of your churches and ministery , wee may justly bee accounted amongst those wee properly call separatists : but it is but your thought of most of them , without ground , contrary to their generall profession in their publique confessions and apologies . and therefore we see no reason of it , or that it toucheth us ; but passing these generalls , let us come to the matter more particularly . reply . your judgement concerning the position , you deliver in three propositions ( for so many they bee for substance ) in respect of the persons reading the liturgie , or the thing in selfe that is read ; as if any part of the liturgie be read ( put case some few select prayers onely ) by an unable and ungodly minister , it is unlawfull ( say you ) for the people to joyne in that case . but if unlawfull for the people to joyne , when an ungodly minister readeth some few select prayers , it is either in respect of the minister , or the prayers themselves ; not of the prayers themselves , for they be select and choyce , faultlesse , in respect of matter and manner , 〈◊〉 is taken for granted ▪ unlesse th●… distribution bee is no purpose ; if in respect of the minister ; then it is not lawfull to joyne with such an one , in any ordinance of god whatsoever . in that you analyse our two propositions into three , we shall not contend , but follow your method , yet wee cannot but marvaile at the liberty that is taken in stating the first proposition , both leaving out and adding such things as will not stand with the termes in our answer ; and indeed this is too frequent in divers places of this reply , which gives a great colour of strength unto the arguments ; but when they come to be scanned , it will discover the impertinency of them . for , 1 although the answer distinguisheth of the liturgie , either of the whole , or of some select prayers which may bee conceived to bee lesse offensive , yet the application of this of select prayers , is onely made in the second proposition of the answer , no way intended in the first . neither doth the answer confesse those prayers , as you say , to bee choyce and faultlesse for matter and manner , but which may bee conceived lesse offensive . 2 whereas the proposition is of an unable and ungodly minister , such unlearned idol-priests that are countenanced and established by the liturgie , and can doe no more then read the same , to the unspeakable hazard and ruine of a multitude of soules ; you carry along your arguments onely in the terme of an ungodly minister , which leaves out one chiefe ground of our proposition , viz. unable . to reduce therefore this proposition unto its true state which the answer puts it in , which is thus , if the question bee of joyning in prayer with , and when that whole liturgie is read , or where that which is used , ( viz. though not the whole ) is read by an unable and ungodly minister : wee see not how it can bee lawfull to joyne , &c. where that which is read by an unable and ungodly minister , cannot have reference to the select prayers , but onely was put in , to reach the whole case , lest any should say , may we not joyne , therefore if they read not all , ( as sometimes such doe not , for haste to the alehouse , beare-baitings , &c. ) and the case is so well known to our selves and others , what the manner of such priests is , how farre they are from making any choyce of select prayers : or having any skill indeed so to doe ; that if any bee more superstitious then others , they would soonest choose them ; so that it was farre from our thoughts to impute it to them , to read the select prayers onely . the question being rightly stated , the argument will halt very much ; for wee say , it is unlawfull in both respects , and the rather , when jointly considered ; and therefore you should first have justified the whole liturgy , or so much as such idol-priests use to read to bee lawfull , and also the standing and calling of those men , before the argument can hold , both which you have wholly left naked without proofe , and argue onely about the lawfulnesse of joyning with an ungodly minister in the ordinances of god , which will not reach this case . if one should affirme it is unlawfull to goe to mattens or evensong , when the whole is read , or that which is read , 〈◊〉 done by a popish priest , and you should answer then , it is either because of the prayers or the priest . not the first ; for the prayers ( if select ) may bee good , and faultlesse , and not because of the priest , for then wee may never joyne with an ungodly minister in the ordinances of god : the answer would bee very imperfect and impertinent , and just so it is here in the frame of the reason , though the corruptions in that service and this be not alike we grant . but before wee answer to the second part of your dis-junction , let us consider a little here once for all , the act of the people in joyning with the reading of this liturgy , or so much of it , as is read usually by such idol-priests . first , concerning the liturgy it selfe , if you respect the matter and forme , or manner of it , it would bee too tedious to rip up , what for matter hath been objected by the godly reformers . consider but two things objected strongly by mr. cartwright against the forme or manner of it . first , that it is taken out of the popish masse-book , concerning which hee affirmeth , that although there were nothing in it unlawfull , or against the word of god , ( which saith hee ) i wish there were not , yet no word of god , no reason , nor example of the ancient churches , jewish or christian , will permit us to use the same formes and ceremonies ( viz. with papists ) being neither commanded of god , nor such as there may not bee as good as they , and rather better established , yea , considering how neare the papists live amongst us , it were more safe to conforme to the ceremonies of the turks that are farre off . and this hee speaketh of the forme of liturgy , as well as ceremonies , cartw. reply to whitgifts answer to the admonition to the parliament , pag. 131 , 132. and although you seeme to make light of this objection , after page 15. end , yet in a like case , when whitgift had said , it is not materiall that deanes , canons came from the pope ; cartwright replyeth thus ; it is as if hee had said , it skilleth not , if they came out of the bottomlesse pit ; for whatsoever commeth from the pope , who is antichrist , comes first from the devill , cartw. reply , pag. 204. secondly , hee objecteth that absurd manner of chopping and interrupting the prayers , of which mr. cartwright saith , that if any man should make such a supplication to a prince , he would thinke him to make his supplication before hee knew what to ask , or that hee had forgotten some piece of his suit ; or that he were distracted in his understanding . much more might bee added , but wee have onely touched this sore , and in the words of that learned and zealous reformer , that it may appeare , neither the opinion of that booke , nor the reasons against it , are so new or proper to the separatists , as is pretended . now what comfort can any godly conscience have to joyn in , or conform unto such a form of worship as this is ? further consider the administration of the sacraments , according to the book ( as we speak still of joyning in it ) who knows not , that such must subject their children to that grosse idol of the crosse , and see and approve the pollution of gods ordinances with the same : and at the lords table joyne in that idolatrous gesture of kneeling ; and therefore how the godly can joyn lawfully in the whole , or such parts as those idol-priests dispense , let all non-conformists judge ; and it is well knowne , how superstitiously precise such are , in pressing all conformity to every gesture and ceremony prescribed in their booke , which they so idolize , as they have good cause , being that which maintaines them . secondly , if wee consider the imposition hereof by the prelates and late strict pressing thereof upon the people to be present and conforme fully to it , as well as upon ministers to use it . the very yeelding of conformity thereto , doth miserably cast away the liberty purchased by christ to his churches , inthrall the churches to antichrist , and lift up the power of antichrist in his tyrannous usurpations upon the churches of christ . thirdly , we might adde the dangerous consequences and scandals that follow from admitting this liturgy , which being touched in our answer to the first position , we here passe over . these things considered , it appeares , not onely that there was need to disprove the first part of your disjunction , which you declined in stating the question ; but also the truth of the position it selfe is confirmed . now let us consider your proof of the second part of your disjunction ; which is thus , reply . if in respect of the minister , then it is not lawfull to joyn with such on one in any ordinance of god. for if the minister make it unlawfull , then all communion in any part of gods worship with such ministers is unlawfull : and so the churches in all ages of the world , the prophets , our saviour christ , the apostles , and the faithfull in the primitive church , 〈◊〉 in holding communion with such , whe●● the priests were dumbe dogs , &c. but we never read that the prophets , our saviour christ , the apostles did ever forbeare themselves , or warne the faithfull not to communicate with such in the ordinances of worship . our saviour charged the disciples to beware of the leaven of the scribes and phariseas , but never forbad them to communicate with them in the ordinances of god. answ . to this we answer ; first , that if you speake to the case in hand of those unable and ungodly ministers of england , readers ( as they are called ) of the common-service , wee grant it is not lawfull to communicate in a stated way with them , in any ordinance of worship properly ministeriall ; in any act that private persons may performe , wee may communicate with them , but not in ministeriall worke , as sacraments ; for although being imposed on any church as ministers , and so received by them , their ministeriall acts are not a nullity ; yet if wee speake of the lawfulnesse of such their act of receiving them , then the church sinneth in choosing them , or being imposed , in receiving them , and submitting to their ministery , being such as are utterly contrary to the rule of christ , and rejected of him . and by the like reason the godly sinne in receiving sacraments , &c. from them , as ministers of christ , knowing they intrude into that office , and have no authority by the rule of christ so to doe . wee may heare a private gifted christian prophecy , but if hee intrude without a lawfull calling into the ministery , we may not receive him , nor approve of him therein . cyprians speech is commonly noted , that plebs maxime habet potestatem vel eligendi dignos sacerdotes , vel indignos recusandi ; yet the occasion of it is not so generally observed , which is this , plebs obsequen●… praeceptis dominicis , deum me●…uens , à peccatore proposito separare se debet , nec se ad sacrilegia sacerdotis sacrificia iniscere , cum ipse maxime habet potestatem eligendi , &c. that is , the people observing divine precepts , and fearing god , ought to separate themselves from a wicked minister , neither joyne themselves to the sacrifices of a sacrilegious priest , seeing they chiefly have power of choosing worthy ministers , and rejecting unworthy . secondly , wee see no demonstrative argument that the priests and pharisees were wholly unable for the worke of those times , as these wee speake of are for — : though the priests , esay 56.10 . were dumb dogs that cannot barke ; yet it seemes by the place to be meant actually , rather then habitually , through their slumbering or security there mentioned , not telling the people of their sinnes , nor warning them of judgements , rather then of their totall inability . men of good parts and able gifts may be actually such dumb dogs , as seldome preach , or never to purpose , and bee spiritually ignorant through much prophanenesse , yet not totally deprived of common gifts : it is most evident that the pharisees were blinde , yet taught the people , and hence the disciples were permitted to heare them ; but what is this to the question , which is of unable , as well as of ungodly ministers ? thirdly , suppose some of the priests and levites were unable , yet the ministery of the old testament was limitted by god himselfe to the tribe of levi , and that by succession , which is farre otherwise in the new testament , being left to the churches election , and therefore they had no power to reject them , or withdraw from them , when they had ministred the ordinances of god. fourthly , suppose some of them were not called of god , being not lineally descended of that tribe , yet those things wherein the faithfull , christ and his apostles , and others did communicate with them , were necessarily commanded of god , viz. sacrifices , offerings , &c. in the temple , which seale of god we see not stamped upon this liturgy in question , to make it currant . and thus peter martyr answereth in the like case , that though there were many pernicious doctrines taught by scribes , pharisees and wicked priests , yet sacrificandi ritus , &c. the rites of sacrificing were not changed ; for the same oblations were offered , which the law commanded , and therefore the saints might use them , having the word of god conjoyned with them . fifthly , what you grant concerning christ his warning his disciples to take heed of the leaven of the scribes and pharisees , no doubt hee did the like , concerning the corruptions of the priests in their administrations of gods ordinances , and wee doubt not , but you will acknowledge that the prophets and apostles did or ought to abstaine from all actuall communion with those corruptions , and the lord jesus out of question did abstaine : which being so , wee may retort this argument thus in regard of conformitie to ceremonies , if it bee not lawfull to partake in the ordinances of god , where wee must actually joyne with such ceremonies , then christ , the prophets and apostles must not have joyned in any ordinance of god in severall ages of the church , when worse or as ill corruptions were admixed with that worship : but they never refused the ordinances of worship for such corruptions ; therefore wee should not now for these ceremonies abstaine ; put case for kneeling at the lords supper , &c. if you please to solve this knot , the same answer will serve our turne as well . reply . it is not for private christians to withdraw themselves from the ordinances of worship , and communion of the church , because such are permitted to deale in the holy things of god , whom they judge or know unfit ; when men joyne in the worship of god with unworthy ministers , they doe not countenance them , their place and office , but obey the commandement of god , who requires their attendance upon his highnesse in that way and meanes . answ . first , wee grant it is not alwayes for private christians so to leave the communion of a church in the ordinances of god , for such a reason , but if they have first done their part according to their place to reforme or cast out such an unworthy and unable ministry , and cannot , or see no hope to procure one sufficient to edifie the church , hee may and ought to betake himselfe to some other church , where hee may bee edified , and it is a great mistake to thinke , ( in the constitution of the gospell ) that a christian cannot reject all fellowship with such idoll priests , but hee must forsake the ordinances of christ , or rent off from the church , when indeed hee deprives himselfe of many ordinances in joyning with them ▪ and attaines them in forsaking of them . secondly , if we consider wherein the outward call of all church officers in the new testament lies , viz. in a great part in the choice of the church , or at least in their after consent and receiving of them , being chosen by others for them , act. 1. and 6. and 14. how can any godly man receive , submit unto , or acknowledge such unable wretches by receiving gods ordinances from them , as ministers , but they must needs countenance them in their places , and set up to themselves an idoll or meanes of worship to edifie themselves , which god never appointed ; for let it bee proved that ever god appointed readers of a liturgie to edifie the people . answ . thirdly , but that to joyne in worship with such should bee to obey gods command , who requires attendance upon himselfe in that way and meanes , wee thinke it a speech not so throughly digested , if wee carry in our eye the case now in hand , concerning these idoll priests and silver shrines . for where can they shew any such command ? or why hath it been suffered by any of our brethren , that the godly living under such priests , have been so frequently absent from them , reading the liturgy , to heare their sermons ? nay why have they not told them , they were bound to attend upon god in hearing their sir john read at home ? wee appeale to all consciences , whether they would approve of any godly man , that would rest in such meanes , and not call him to leave all his outward conveniences , for some godly able ministry : or at least not to attend on them , but get where they may bee better edified . reply . to goe no further then the text you quote , hosea 4.6 , 7. because thou hast despised knowledge i have rejected thee ; properly the text speaketh of the ten tribes and the priests amongst them , who worshipped the calves , &c. whom the lord threatens to reject ; but neither this nor any other text proves , that people joyning in worship with such , doe countenance them in their places . answ . the text proves that god rejects such priests as these are , ( just like jeroboams priests of the meanest of the people ) and that was all it was alledged for , and that receiving such as ministers doth countenance them in their places , was proved before . and if it bee meant of jeroboams priests , as you say , the approved practise of the godly in those dayes , 2 chron. 11.16 . will well justifie and lead us to reject and leave these also . secondly , there seemes to bee foure arguments , why the people should withdraw from these kind of priests : first , in regard of their miserable perishing for want of knowledge by their meanes . secondly , because the people in receiving them , rejected knowledge , as calvin notes upon the place . thirdly , because god would take a time to disburthen the church of them , whence drusius in locum wisheth , utinam tales hodie à ministerio a●…verentu●… . fourthly , because the lord would cast off their children from being his , for this sinne , as calvin also notes upon the place ; the promise of shewing mercy to a 1000. generations , being chiefly annexed to the observers of the second command , and the instituted meanes of worship , which those priests never were . reply . on the contrary , if you will extend this text to all unworthy ministers of what sort soever , whom the word of god condemns , as not approved ministers of god , &c. answ . wee intended no other sorts then such as wee have in hand , the unable and ungodly idoll priests of england , and therefore this discourse concernes us not . for wee freely confesse , that it is lawfull in divers cases , at least for a time , to communicate with such unworthy ministers as may bee contained in your description : but that people must and ought to joyne with such in the worship of god , and sinne , if they separate from the ordinances , ( as you say ) the scriptures alledged teach not this so evidently , that wee can see , as 1 sam. 2.12 , 13.17.24 . that imputation , verse 24. they make the lords people to transgresse , doth . not depend immediatly on verse 13 , 14.17 . but on verse 22.23 . where they are charged to have layne with the women , the other passages being interrupted by the story of samuel and his mother , verse 18 , 19.20 , 21. so jer. 8.8 , 9. micah 3.11 , 12. containe onely threats against wicked ministers , but not a word to prove people ought to joyne with them , &c. phil. 1.15 . speaking of such as preach and preach christ , though not of sinceritie , doth not reach such ministers as the word condemnes : for many such may be approved ministers by the word , having a call according to the same ; but wee shall not contend in this case , wherein wee doe not dissent , so that christians bee left to their lawfull libertie of withdrawing from ministers grossely wicked , and teachers of false doctrin , or idle and unsufficient , when they cannot reclaime them , or remove them in the use of all lawfull meanes within their power . reply . the reasons whereby the ancient churches condemned the donatists and catharists for their voluntary and seditious separations , and the moderne churches condemne the anabaptists for their renting from the body of christ , will hold against separation from the prayers of the congregation , because they are read by an ungodly minister . wee deny that wee teach or hold such separation , because read by an ungodly minister , as is sufficiently shewed before ; but what we speak is against conformitie to and communion with the corruptions of the liturgie especially used by an unable as well as ungodly minister , and therefore the arguments mentioned will hold against our proposition , just as the accusations and imputations of donatisme , puritanisme , anabaptisme , which the prelates cast upon all non-conformists and men studious of reformation , will hold and fasten upon them , which is nothing at all . reply . the second proposition , where the whole liturgie is used though by an able and godly minister , it is not lawfull to joyne in prayer in that case ; wee cannot bee of your judgement herein , for in the times of the prophets , and our saviour christ as great abuses no question were found , &c. but they never taught people to separate from the holy things of god. answ . first , wee must still mind the reader of the true and full state of the question , which in our answer is of joyning in prayer , with , and when that whole liturgy is used , and hee that joynes with that whole liturgie must needs bee supposed to have actuall communion with all the corruptions thereof what ever they bee , and therefore though this proposition reach to the practise of able and godly ministers , yet let none thinke wee plead herein separation from their ministery , but onely that people may not conforme with them to any corruption in worship , and by this proposition also the author might easily have seene that wee denied the other ( which was woven in with this ) not because of the ungodlinesse of the minister alone as hee carried his dispute , but chiefly in respect of the corruptions of the worship , together with the unlawfulnesse of such a ministery that is both unable and ungodly . secondly , concerning the argument it runs as full for conformitie to all the corrupt ceremonies of the booke as the corrupt worship it selfe therein , as was said before , cleare the one , viz. non-conformitie to ceremonies , shew a reason why you will separate from the sacrament , because you will not kneele according to the booke , and you answer your argument here alledged against us : but the reply proceeds . reply . and if presence at formes of prayer bee not lawfull by reason of the corruptions alledged , there can bee no visible societie named , since 200. yeeres after christ or thereabout , wherein a christian might lawfully joyne in prayer , reading the scriptures , hearing the word , or participation of the sacraments ; their doctrines , prayers , rights being lesse pure then ours : but no man wee hope will bee so bold as to affirme the state of the churches within 200. yeers after christ to bee so miserably decayed that the faithfull could not without sinne hold communion with them in the foresaid ordinances of god. answ . first , this argument holds as strongly for conformitie to the ceremonies as to the whole booke of common prayers , as was said before . secondly , this is a dangerous kind of reasoning from the practise of the faithfull in corrupt times of the church , especially when they are declining , and growing clouds of darkenesse , and superstition overspread the churches . it is no breach of charitie to thinke that through the iniquitie of the times , the godly lived in many evils through ignorance and weakenesse which after light is come into the churches wee ought to abandon wholly ; these are times of light and of the consumption of antichrist , and time for us to abolish his liturgies and corrupt formes of worship as well as images , ceremonies , &c. who doe not pitie the weaknesse of godly bilny and others that seeing some grosse corruptions were yet so devoutly obedient to the church ( as they called it ) in many grosse superstitions ? and the like may bee said of those former times , and wee see not but this reason will goe farre in justification of communion with many false worships of antichrists that are not grosly idolatrous . thirdly , it is a great charge upon those times to say no visible societie throughout the world can bee named since 200. yeeres after christ , that was not lesse pure then england in doctrine , rites , &c. it may bee , that as generally churches were corrupt , so they contemned and censured such as professed more puritie : but that there were some visible assemblies more pure may bee conceived by that testimony given to aerius and many orthodox christians with him , though condemned for a hereticke , in that which wee all now hold to bee an undoubted truth ; also after the waldenses casting off the pope and his will worships , and the following reformed churches , those of scotland , geneva , and divers others in france and switserland , &c. whose doctrines , rites and administrations wee doubt not will bee confessed more pure then english churches . it would bee too tedious , and in these knowing times needlesse to search all records and to compare the puritie of the prayers , and rites of these with former times , wee read of very few formes used for 300. yeeres , some short ones they had which are retained yet in our liturgie , with many more , and these formes they had , not imposed nor stinted , which is the great offence of this , untill about the yeere 406. and there wee read in the milevitan councell that no prayers should bee used in churches but what were either composed of able and sufficient men , or approved by the synods , and this was determined onely in regard of the ignorant ministery of those contentious and hereticall times , as chemnitius observes , ne forte aliquid contra fidem vel per ignorantiam , vel per minus studium sit compositum . if the roman bishops did multiply ( as indeed they did excessively ( unlesse their owne admirers erre grossely ) rites and formes of prayer , yet it is well knowne how long it was ere the churches in other places submitted to their power , so that this comparison might well have beene spared . to conclude , though wee say not that all churches since 200. yeeres after christ were so miserably decayed , that the faithfull might not without sinne communicate with them , yet wee may bee bold to say many of them were so corrupt , that the faithfull did not , nor could not communicate in many parts of gods worship without sinnes of ignorance conforming to the corruptions themselves ; and that if they had seene and discovered the evill of them , they ought , and we beleeve would have abstained from divers ordinances in regard of the corrupt administrations of them ; yea after all meanes used to purge them out , and not prevailing , they ought and would have withdrawn themselves to more pure churches , or erected such amongst themselves . reply . the prayers of the ministers conceived or stinted in a set forme bee not his private prayers , but the publike prayers of the assembly ; but you will not say the people ought not to joyn with their pastour therein if ought bee amisse , for matter , manner , or both . answ . there is a wide difference betweene the whole liturgie , so imposed , and so clogged , as is before shewed : and such prayers of the minister having something amisse . but you may put the case so , as it would bee unlawfull for people to joyne in such prayers also : as if the minister for matter usually pray to saints ; for manner , turne himselfe , and fix his eye on a crucifix . reply . it is all one to the people in this case , whether the fault bee personall ( as some distinguish ) or otherwise ; knowne beforehand or not knowne ; for if simple presence defile , whether knowne before hand ▪ 〈◊〉 not , all presence is faultie , and if simple presence defile not , our presence is not condemned by reason of the corruptions knowne , whereof wee stand not guiltie . answ . first , we distinguish not here between personall and ministeriall faults , but object against the personall act of him that joynes with that whole liturgie , and so in the corruptions of it , as hee must needs doe , that joyns with the whole , not onely saying amen to them , but as is knowne he takes his share in those shreds of prayers , responds , &c. which in mr. cartwrights judgement is so absurd , as makes a man seeme out of his wits . and therefore his personall , actuall conformitie must needs carry guilt , and therefore there is more then simple presence in this case , as is cleare to any understanding . secondly , it is not all one whether the faults bee knowne , or not knowne beforehand , as appeares plainely , 1 cor. 10.27 , 28 , 29. where wee see , if a man come to a feast , and know not they eate with reference to the idoll , nor that any take offence , he may eate without asking any question : but if hee know such things , he may not eate . besides , publique sinfull actions of ministers are either , 1 accidental & occasional , or 2ly . known & appointed in a stated service ; now the frailties of a minister , which accidentally fall in and are not known before , nor are any part and essence of the service , unto which men that come , doe or should take themselves to bee called , hinder not communion ; because they doe not prae se ferre by their presence to attend and observe them , but the corruptions of the liturgie are knowne and appointed , and to which and with which the imposers call others to joyne as in a stated service to god ; the use of which if it bee an humane frailtie in gods ministers , not yet convinced of the evill thereof , yet for those to communicate herein , who know such evills , have surely passed the bounds of frailtie and infirmitie ; because in this action of prayer there is not onely communion by way of presence , as it is in hearing the word , but communion of action : publique prayer being the common action of the whole church towards god. there can be no prayer by any man offered to god , but there will be some humane frailties attending on it ; if therefore for this cause wee should reject communion in prayer , wee should reject the ordinances of god , and never joyne in any prayer in this world ; but the corruptions of the liturgie are not such , but that they may bee more easily cast off , then kept . this case stands not in tolerating faults in another ( as the reply makes it ) but in actuall joyning with the sinnes of another , wherein hee that joyneth is involved , and therefore whether they bee corruptions , that may bee tolerated or not in another , yet if sinnes , they may not bee practised and so joyned in with another . and therefore the case you put of communion with any person obstinate in errour , till hee may bee convinced , is nothing to this purpose . for wee must not joyne with him in his error , no not an houre , though wee may tolerate him a moneth . reply . hath not christian wisedome and experience of humane frailties lessoned you ( deare brethren ) to beare one with another in matters of greater consequence , then any have , or can bee objected truely against the forme of prayer in use among us ? answ . the lord hath lessoned us to tolerate and beare with many humane frailties not onely in one another , but also in our deare brethren abroad ; but to joyne with the best of men in conformitie to knowne and grosse corruptions in worshipping god , or to stoop so low , to the insolent tyranny of usurping prelates , as to beare on our backs their whole liturgie , and the corruptions thereof , wee confesse wee have not yet learned , and now wee hope never to goe to that schoole againe to learne the same . reply . and why such corruptions should not bee ascribed to humane frailtie , we see not . for if a godly minister make use of a booke , in things which hee judges lawfull for matter and manner , the corruption of him that useth it , according to his judgement , from what cause can it spring but humane ignorance and frailtie ? answ . first , the learned replier is very apt to forget the termes of the proposition , which is of the whole liturgie , not of some things in it , that hee may judge lawfull , to judge the whole lawfull , wee thinke none of those who sent the questions doe . secondly , our question is not whether the minister use the book of humane frailtie , but whether the worship offered therein , bee not so corrupt for matter and manner , as puts a great difference betweene it , and the prayers of a minister that may bee subject to faylings of humane frailtie . wee doubt not , but bilney , latimer , &c. used the prayers and ceremonies of the church of rome , out of humane frailtie , yet the service it selfe and those ceremonies of holy water , holy bread , &c. which latimer turned to as good use , as hee could , were evill and no way to bee conformed unto by the godly . thirdly , there are many things done of others through humane , frailtie , that is , ignorantly and in some measure perversely , yet such frailties , though they are to bee very long tolerated in the man , yet every humane frailtie is not so to bee tolerated , as to bee communicated with ; for the grossest idolatry in popery may in this sense , if ignorantly done , bee accounted humane frailtie . it is true , wee may bee freed from communicating in anothers sinne two wayes . 1. by bearing witnesse against his sinne , or 2ly by withdrawing from the person committing it . there were times wherein the lord raised up witnesses against the growing abominations of antichrist for many yeeres ; and there are times ( as cameron well observes ) wherein the lord commands his people not onely to beare witnesse , but to come out of babylon . the case may be so put as that wee may quit our hands from communicating with other men , in their sinfull worship , by bearing witnesse onely against the sinne , yet communicating with them in the rest ; & è eonira the circumstances may bee such , as that wee best free our selves from sinne , by withdrawing from them in such acts . and wee freely confesse wee know not how to acquit others that communicate in the whole liturgie , without the one or the other . reply . wee rest assured you question not the integritie of many , who make much more use of the looke , then onely in a few select prayers . answ . you may so doe , and wee rest assured you question not the integritie of many that have conformed to the ceremonies , yet wee hope you will not justifie them in that act , no more then we doe any in this . reply . from the bottome of our hearts , wee pray that the lord would remove out of his church what ever offends , and yet all things might be so done , as might be approved in the consciences of all . answ . wee not onely joyne with you in this hearty desire , but blesse god that wee live to see the same so farre accomplished in a good part of england , as it is ; but as wee are perswaded the growing light and zeale of many godly ministers and christians , that have discovered the evill of the booke it selfe , as well as the ceremonies thereof , and their resolute rejection of the same , was one blessed meanes hereof , so wee feare the pleas and indeavours of some brethren to excuse it and the use of it , will be a dangerous meanes to uphold in the hearts of many too good an opinion of it , and loathnesse to cast it quite away to the moles and bats , from whence it first came . reply . to aggr●…vat●… faults , especially when it tends to draw away people from the ordinances of god , is no lesse evill then to excuse them , it may bee greater . answ . wee grant at some times and in some cases it may bee so , but in matters of corrupt worship , wherein god is so jealous and at such a time as this was ; when the burthensome corruptions of humane traditions so violently imposed on the churches , grew to such a number and unsupportable weight to the consciences of so many , wee doubt not to affirme , that now extenuations were farre more dangerous and offensive to the lord : wee cannot but with sad hearts consider and call to minde how many weake christians have ventured to swallow downe all manner of humane traditions and worships imposed upon them , imboldned much ( wee feare ) by the examples , if not the reasonings of many godly ministers , which scandall some of us with many amongst you have have cause to bewayle before the lord and give satisfaction before the world ; and wee hope our departure from these burdens , and flight into these wildernesses to enjoy christ in more pure ordinances of his worship , and the witnesse wee have thereby borne against them , have not been in vaine through the grace of jesus christ . reply . in them that joyne according to christs command ( and libertie of absence from christ hath not been shewed ) notwithstanding the corruptions , wee hold the prayers to bee an holy and acceptable sacrifice to the lord , and pleasing to jesus christ . answ . how any man can joyne with this whole liturgie according to christs command , who in the second commandement forbids all humane devices in his worship , whereof this liturgie is so full ; it is hard for us to conceive , and strange to see it affirmed : and that libertie from christ to bee absent cannot bee shewed . the whole sentence as it standeth , wee confesse to us seemes an high justification thereof , which wee little expected . reply . the corrupt sacrifice is that which the deceiver bringeth voluntarily , and out of neglect , having a male in his flock , but the godly bringeth himselfe and godly desires according to the will of god , and the corruptions in matter or manner are not his , they cleave not to his sacrifice to staine and pollute it . the text in malach. 1. is misapplyed , and wee desire such as alledge this passage against simple presence at the prayers of the liturgie , advisedly to consider whether god allow them to make such application of his truth , which we much doubt of , to say no more . answ . that people joyning in the whole liturgie , voluntarily offer up the same , wee thought had beene no question : if any joyne by feare and compulsion ( though the will in this case is not forced , for ●…i●…ta actio is voluntaria ) [ wee thinke that will not ease , but aggravate the evill , arguing a reluctancy or doubtfulnesse at least in his conscience ; and so what hee doth is not of faith , and therefore sin , rom. 14. ] 2ly . what you say of the faithfull here , might be said for the faithful in malachi his time , if any godly man came with godly desires to jerusalem to worship , and then carelesly buy and take a corrupt sacrifice for cheapnesse , ease , &c. shall hee not bee counted ( at least in part ) this deceiver , and beare the curse ? and why not so here in this case ? let a man bring himselfe , and never so godly desires , yet if hee will joyne in a knowne corrupt service , will his godly desires excuse him ? shall not his broken absurd responds , his standing at the creed , kneeling at the sacrament , &c. all which hee must doe , if hee joyne in the whole liturgie , shall none of these cleave to his sacrifice ? what though the minister offer the service ? so did the priest the sacrifice ; but both in the name of the people , and they joyning with him in offering the same to god. 3ly . concerning malach. 1.13 , 14. the more advisedly wee consider it , the more perswaded wee are , the lord allow us to make such application of the truth contained in it , and wee thinke others will bee of our mind , not onely in respect of the similitude that i●… in this case , with that in malachi , but also if wee consider , what an argument the lord useth to convince them of their corruptions and carelesnesse in his service , verse 11. wherein the lord upbraids the jewes and provokes them to jealousie , as the apostle paul speakes , by declaring the reverend esteeme of his name amongst the heathen , and that every where incense should bee offered and a pure offering to his name . and what is that incense , and pure offering , but the pure prayers , and worship of god that should be in all gentile churches under the gospell ? as tertullian , eusebius , jerom and austin with others expound it . and hee applies it againe , verse 14. i am a great king , and my name shall bee great amongst the heathen : if then the lord oppose the pure prayers and worship of gentile churches to the corrupt carelesse sacrifices of the jewes , the application is not onely sutable , but the place containes a sad admonition to all gentile churches , that by their corrupt worships , and incense , so farre frustrate ( as it were ) gods expectation and glorying of their pure oblations . reply . your third proposition . that as you are very tender of imputing sinne to those men that joyne in some select prayers read by an able and godly minister , so on the other side , you are not without feare , lest such joyning may bee found unlawfull , unlesse it may appeare , that the ministers with whom they have communion , neither give scandall by reading them , nor give unlawfull honour to a thing abused to idolatry and superstition , nor doe suffer themselves to bee sinfully limited in the reading of them . 1 wee cannot conceive how you should imagine the practise of a godly minister in reading some few select prayers to bee scandalous , or offensive in the congregations , when the people generally in their assemblies and in the whole land were perswaded of the lawfulnesse of that course , till now of late times some have beene drawne away to separate ; who yet by warrant of scripture produce nothing of weight , to countenance that practise . answ . concerning this proposition , wee doe ingenuously confesse , that it may seeme over rigid and tending to separation , and therefore we will not wholly justifie the same : yet diverse things there bee , which may much mitigate the seeming rigidnesse of it . 1 in the words of the answer , where wee doe not determine any thing positively , wee doe not impute sinne to any in such a case , wee say onely that wee are not without feate , lest it may bee found unlawfull , where any scandall , unlawfull honour , or sinfull limiting bee found in the ministers : and if our feares bee needlesse , wee hope , such as know how jealous the lord is in matters of his worship will easily forgive us . 2 because you marvell wee should bee so timerous in this case , wee shall give you some reasons of it , which perhaps may abate much the marvell or wonder . first , let it bee remembred that these select prayers are yet a part of that liturgie , which is acknowledged to bee corrupt in matter and manner and clogged with such evill consequences as are afore touched ; taken out of the masse-booke , &c. and master parker ( who was no separatist ) doubts not to affirme , that the touching of antichrists things maketh uncleane , for which hee cites , 2 cor. 6.17 . haggai 2.14 . john 4.23 . park of the crosse , part 1. pag. 137. secondly , let it be considered that this booke is imposed by an unlawfull antichristian authoritie of the prelates , to whom to give place and subjection in any thing is justly to bee questioned . and wee know that a man may acknowledge his fealtie and hold his lands of the lord of the manner by a small rent , as well as by a greater . thirdly , consider this corrupt service-booke hath beene over-long tolerated and borne withall in the english churches : it deserveth not so honorable a buriall as the jewish worship : but hath stunke above ground twice 40. yeeres , in the nostrills of many godly , who breathed in the pure ayre of the holy scripture , being witnessed against by the writings and sufferings of many godly ministers and christians in england and scotland . fourthly , many godly men ( it is well knowne ) have been ( of late times especially ) offended at many good ministers silence in these things , that they would no more plainely and boldly discover the corruptions in that booke , and at their compliance with the same . fiftly , these are times of more light , whereby the lord is consuming antichrist , with the breath of his mouth . and therefore we have cause the more to feare how we meddle with any thing of his . sixtly , consider the season when this answer was sent , was it not at a time , when superstitious opinions of the whole booke and the ceremonies thereof , were growne to a great height in the mindes and hearts of very many ? when divers superstitious popish worships , as bowing at the name of jesus , reading at the table set altar-wise , &c. were added to the heape of former corruptions ? when the tyranny of the prelates raged in the pressing of the booke , and their other humane inventions ? when many ministers and people ( well thought of by the best ) were carried away shamefully with these things ? when many weake christians were staggering and wavering and looking at the judgement and practise of their guides , ready to stand or fall with them ? lastly , consider that things lawfull in themselves may bee inexpedient ; because offensive in their use , and so farre unlawfull ; which offence wee chiefly looked at in this act , as appeares by our answer . let all these things bee laid together and weighed in an equall ballance ( which wee hope our brethren are now at some libertie and leasure to doe ) and let the consciences of all speake , whether it was not high time , for all the godly in england to take unto them that zeale and courage , which was soone after in our brethren of scotland , to cast off and wholly abandon the book it self and all the formes of it , and use of the same in every part and peece thereof ? at least wee hope you will cease to marvell at our timerousnesse of such a season , how ever wee confesse , wee have sometime been more bold in the darke . these considerations premised , as they may in a great measure abate the seeming rigour of the proposition : so they will much take off the edge of the reply . for it will appeare that all conformitie of ministers and people to any parcells of that booke , at such a season as this was , is a farre differing case from those that are put in some of the replies . 1 to the first reply then , wherein you put it beyond imagination , that such a practise should bee scandalous or offensive , wee know not what you have observed in some particular congregations neere you : but what ever have beene the opinions of men formerly concerning this practise , yet you know that the booke in generall hath been condemned of all godly reformers , and the use of any part of it hath been counted burdensome to many for the reasons named . but of later times , as the booke and conformitie thereto was urged more hotly , so the spirits of very many grew more zealous against it , and began to loath it , and to withdraw wholly from it ; many very inquisitive about the lawfulnesse or unlawfulnesse of joyning with it at all , and your selves complaine of the withdrawing of many , from joyning in the ordinances , where it was used , so that wee see not , but at least in some persons and at some places and times it might probably bee offensive and scandalous so to practise . 2 wee looked not onely to the offence of those in your owne congregations , but to the imboldning and hardning of papists in honouring any part of their portuises , above the formes of other reformed churches abroad ; and you cannot bee ignorant how many of the lords witnesses now asleepe have testified of the offence and danger thereof . reply . 2 you say if the booke were an idolothyte , yet latent offence doth not oblige . answ . the offence in this season , and as all things stand , cannot bee latent , complaint is made of the offence taken by many , and therefore it is evident . reply . 3 the booke so farre as it is sound and good ( by your confession ) is no idolothyte , nor taken out of the masse booke , in such sense as you object ▪ but rather the masse and other prayers added to it ; popery is a scab cle●…ving to the church , and many truths belonging to the church , as her proper legacy , were stolne , and heaped together in that denne ; and why the true man may not challenge his goods where ever hee finde them , or the theefe plead title to the true mans goods by prescription wee know not . answ . first , wee judge the whole booke an idolothyte , and whence you gather , that wee confesse the contrary of any part of it , as it stands apart in relation to that whole , wee know not . secondly , that it was taken out of the masse booke , was proved by the confession of king edward ; and other evidences are many ; but you say , not in such sense as wee object . but rather , è contra masse , &c. added to it , &c. but where to finde such a legacy bequeathed to the church in the testament of our lord jesus christ , wee could never yet see : so that wee rather feare all those formes of prayer , of marriage , burialls , visitations of the sick , confirmation , &c. are rather the copper counterfeit coyne , of a well growne antichrist , whereby he cousened the churches , when hee stole away the golden legacy of christ , rather then any part of the true churches legacy : and therefore it had been more happy for the churches that they had never challenged the same , but let the theefes prescription to have been a good plea to hold them still : this further we adde , when we say it was taken out of the masse-booke , wee understand masse-booke in a large sense , ( as it is commonly taken ) for to speake narrowly it was collected out of three popish bookes , the first part of publique prayers , exbreviario ; the second part , viz. the order of administring sacraments , matrimony , visiting the sick and burialls , è rituali ; 3. the order of consecration in the supper , the epistles and gospels , and collects , è missali , as the forme of consecration of bishops and priests was taken è pontificali , as the author of altare damasc . shews , pag. 612. thirdly , because those words , popery is a scab , &c. may bee a seed of much evill , an egge out of which a serpent may bee hatched , if men zealous of mouldy formes may but have time againe to set upon it , if the wheele of these evill times , ( through gods judgement on this wanton age ) turne the prelates or other zelotes for this liturgie uppermost , wee shall therefore crave libertie to examine this speech more narrowly . and because ( as it is said ) unumquodque ex suâ origine rectissime judicatur , wee shall trace the steps of the first times and so downeward , to see what sound parts of liturgie there was , on which this scab is supposed to grow . 1. our blessed saviour taught his disciples a blessed forme , which though it may bee lawfully and comfortably used , the rather , not being of mans , but the lords composing : yet it is evident hee never appointed his people to use it as their onely forme , and therefore the apostles in the primitive church , in that heavenly prayer , acts 4. did not attend to the words and forme of this prayer , though they might have this in their eye , as the comon rule and direction how to powre out their prayers to god , for particular things , which may be an everlasting witnesse against their usurpations , that will limit the churches to their formes which the lord christ would not doe to his owne . 2. in the first 300. yeeres after christ , wee read of few formes , that the churches used , and those rather short ejaculations , then set formes , but contrarily wee read frequently of the exercise of their gifts in prayer . they prayed sine monitore , quia de pectore , saith tertullian , i. e. they prayed without a promptour , because from the heart , which as zephirus observes was in opposition to the prompted formes then in use amongst the pagans . wee read also what they prayed for , viz. pro inimicis , pro imperatoribus , pro statu seculi ▪ pro morà finis , &c. but of any set formes we read not . their persecutions and dayes of afflictions preserved them from formalitie in prayer , and taught them how to finde their hearts and knees , and tongues , to poure out their soules to god , while under the altar they were pouring out their blood . 3. but after the churches had enjoyed peace for some space of time , ( wherein securitie usually makes insensible , and insens●…blenesse formall ) then indeed wee read of set and imposed formes , which the rather prevailed in regard of the grosse and palpable ignorance of a blind ministry , under a more learned prelacy , and therefore it is well observed by chemnitius that the third councell of carthage decreed this ; ut nemo in precibus , &c. viz. that no minister in his prayers either names the father for the sonne or the sonne for the father , but when hee comes to the altar , to direct his prayers alwayes to god the father , and that no man use his owne formes , till hee have conferred and shewed his formes to men more able , which wee finde sometime to bee the synod . 4 after these times they added the commemoration of saints to their prayers and letanies , as appears from manifold instances , whereof take but this one imputed to chrysostome : sanctissimae deiparae & semper virginis mariae , cum omnibus sanctis , memoriam agentes , nos ipsos & omnem vitam nostram christo deo nostro commendamus . which letanies at first being used more seldome at some times of the year , afterwards grew into ordinary use , to every end of which the people added , lord have mercy upon us , and exaudi domine , we beseech thee to hear us good lord. 5 from commemoration of saints , ( being so near the brink ) they soon came on to invocation of them , first in private prayers , then in publick , and that by degrees . for first , they called upon christ to hear their intercessions for them . intercessionibus sanctorum tuorum , salvator , salva nos : and thence they fell to direct and immediate invocation of them . maria deo supplica , ut animas nostras salvet . 6 at last they became so superstitious in their letanies or liturgies , that praying was magnified above all preaching , and almost all preaching was changed into formall , corrupt , and blind praying ; and thus it was generally in the churches , till about the sixt century , as ( if need were ) might be shewed at large . 7 though other churches were thus over-grown with forms of worship , yet the roman bishops especially , did multiply forms and superstitious ▪ rites excessively . rome being ( in gods secret providence ) left to become the very seat and throne of antichrist . the bishops themselves also finding it exceeding hard to bring in the ●…ligion of christ , without conforming to the pagan rites , as casaubon observes . for it appears even in the time of theodosius , wherein christianity was risen to a great head , the senate being sent unto by him to renounce their pagan religion , and receive the law of christ , they returned answer that they would not , but that they would observe the ancient law pompilian , to avoid the ruine of the common-wealth , which they feared might come by the change of religion . the roman bishops also for 400 years together , could never obtain of the senate , nor multitudes of the roman idolaters , to renounce their inveterate idolatry , and receive the gospel . hence they conformed their rites and ceremonies to the pagan and idolatrous customes , the better to allure them to christ according to their carnalll policy . we finde all the principal parts of the masse to be borrowed from the idolatrous pagans , and to have their originall from numa pompilius that conjurer , who lived 700 years before christ , to adorn and deck ( as the bishops thought ) the religion of christ jesus , to the which with much ado at last the romans were converted . to which principall parts , viz. vestments , holy-water , the confiteor , organs , incense , offertory , &c. other deckings were added also , as divers letanies , and the kurie elyson to be sung nine times , invented by gregory a monk at first , well-studied in the laws of numa and tullus hostilius : damasus ( as platina and sabellius shew ) inriched it with gloria patri , &c. i. e. glory be to the father , son , and holy ghost . sergius , with an agnus dei , to be sung three times . alexander and other bishops added the canon of the masse ; others , the epistles and gospels : the graduall and collects were added by gelasius , anno 493. the gloria in excelsis by symmachus 508. at last came the host in about 1062. much more might be said . all which when we consider , we confess we are pusled to discern the difference between the sound part and the scab . for if the principal formalities of the masse ( out of which our liturgy was taken ; as is confessed ) arose out of a politick push to conform the christian to the pagan religion , and the deckings of it , from the itching humor of the roman busie bishops , admirers of humane inventions and ceremonies ▪ let the reader then judge what sound parts are left beside the scab . we do not speak this to condemn every thing for the matter of it that is in the common-prayer-book : yea , we honor the affection and piety of the first reformers , and the godly then , that were glad to hear prayers in their own to●…e , and according to the glimmering light of those times , aymed at the winning of papists to the true religion by such a form of worship . but now since experience hath taught , it rather hardens them against the truth , then draws them toward it ; when we see the pressing of it is rather a temptation to conform to popery , then otherwise ; we verily beleeve , if they had lived in these times of further light , they would have born witnesse against it , as others have done . lastly , though the originall had been good ( which yet is contrary ) we may answer in the words of peter martyr , to such as did plead for a lawfull presence at masse , because the originall was good ; who answers thus : in hisoe rebus non origo , &c. in these matters , not the originall , but the nature is to be considered ; for the brasen serpent had its originall from god , and was honored with miraculous works : yet when abused , piis hominibus redditus est detestabilis , it became ( most ) loathsome to godly men . reply . it is no hard task to shew , that our service-book was reformed in most things , according to the purest liturgies which were in use in the church , long before the masse was heard of in the world . and if that could not be shewed , yet forms of speech generally taken ( we speak not of this or that speciall word or phrase ) is no more defiled by idolatry , then the light , air , or place where idolatry is committed , &c. answ . it is just cause of grief unto us , that this reverend author should thus use the prelates plea for surplice and other ceremonies , to justifie this corrupt liturgy ; for these were before the masse , and many other idols of the papists : and though a phrase or word be not polluted by their use of it ; yet a needless ceremony , and so a devised form of worship , and a bundle of ceremonious and corrupt wor●…s , must needs be polluted by the use of them ; better to use t●… forms of turks then papists , saith cartw. supra . reply . fourthly , put case the minister in reading give offence , give unlawfull honor to a thing abused to idolatry , and suffer himself to be sinfully limited in reading ? what is that to the faithfull ? this can be no ground that the people may not joyn , &c. answ . we doe not conclude that they doe sin , but fearfull we are lest they may so do ; all things considered in this case , as have been before propounded . if indeed the case stood as formerly it hath done in england , we would have been lesse scrupulous and doubtfull of the matter : but if by the out-breaking of light , after so long toleration of the book , we see so many evill effects of it , and see such superstitious opinions of it increasing , and such pressing the same to the oppression of the churches , so many fall , so many weak ones stagger , and look at the example of their guides : if now when all are called of god to rise up against it with zeal and detestation , a minister godly and able will use any part of it with offence , &c. we suppose we had cause to fear and leave it doubtfull , whether the godly might lawfully joyn with them therein , and therefore we desire you to call back your sharp censure of such withdrawing , as you conclude this passage withall , or else we shal appeal to the reverend assembly of ministers , and their late and godly directory herein . reply . fifthly , if these , and such like scruples make it unlawfull to joyn in the ordinance of worship , we must hold communion with no society under heaven . for may not the brethren which hold all stinted liturgies and set forms unlawfull , say with like reason , it is not lawfull to joyn with others inconceived prayers , if they give too little honor to it , as conceiving the other lawful , or sinfully limiting themselves to one stinted form , though conceived at first by themselves , &c. answ . we must intreat the christian reader still to carry in minde with what tendernesse we offered our selves in this point , and upon what considerations we durst not wholly excuse and cleare such joyning as the case now stood , and therefore we think these reasonings would be far differing from the case in hand , and we would not be taken so as to justifie such rigid principles as these are . we heartily joyn in the conclusion , that such advancing of small differences , would indeed bring all to confusion , and we are far ( we hope ) from any such meaning . if our answer in this or any other passage , give just advantage to such separations , we are heartily sorry for it ; but we hope what hath been said will satisfie the ingenuous and christian reader . reply . sixthly , we have credibly heard , that you hold fellowship with professed rigid separatists , without acknowledging of their error , and receive them as members , or communicate with them in the priviledges of the church , though you professe you approve not their opinion or practice : and if in godly wisdome you can see grounds to joyn with them , we marvail you should be so timerous in this particular . answ . although in many of our churches we know not that there be any such professed rigid separatists , that reject the churches of england , as no churches ; and their ministers , as no true ministers ; yet we deny not but some such there may bee in some of the churches . whence we grant it may follow that we can have communion in gods worship with men of severall judgments , yet we may be justly timerous of joyning or approving others to joyn in any part of a corrupt worship , in case of scandall , &c. we think these things have not the same face or shew of reason in them ; and therefore so long as they live peaceably with us , we can well have fellowship with them , as we have also with other , that think ( it may be ) better of the churches and wayes of it , then there is cause , in regard of the corruptions thereof ; so we be not bound to approve their opinions , nor conform to any of their corrupt practises . reply . seventhly , if to administer in a stinted form be scandalous to such as separate , it is scandall taken , not given ; and we should do it the rather , that they be not confirmed in their error , the truth be not prejudiced , needless scruples occasioned , &c. answ . 1 this is from the question , for we dispute of your liturgy , not of any liturgy or stinted form. 2 take in the case in all its circumstances , ( as before declared ) and it will appear scandall may be given ; at least we put the case of a scandall really given . 3 how far a man in some cases of clear and undoubted truths may do a thing , the rather for such reasons , though others take offence , we will not dispute : but if for meat ( or by use of our liberty by eating of such meat , as another accounts unclean ) we may destroy the work of god , and therefore must not eat flesh , nor drink wine , nor any thing whereby a brother stumble , &c. rom. 14 14 , 15 , 20 , 21. how dangerous then to use such corrupt forms of worship , or any part thereof , so much the rather , when a weak brother stumbles at them , we leave it to the christian reader to judge , we doubt it will not agree with the rules of charity prescribed rom. 14. 1 cor. 8. chap. iii. 3 position . that the children of godly and approved christians are not to be baptized , untill their parents be set members of some particular congregation . 4 that the parents themselves , though of approved piety , are not to be received to the lords-supper , untill they be admitted as set members . reply . what is here premised to prevent mistakes , doth seem more to raise , then to abate scruples . you refuse not all communion with all that are not church-members , and so much they professe who formerly have gone for , and professed themselves separatists from our assemblies ; you doe not appropriate these priviledges of the seals onely to members of your own churches , &c. if you mean onely that the sacraments administred in other churches be true for substance ; it is no more then you will confesse of rome . if you deny not fellowship with them in the seals , and to receive them to the sacrament , your judgement is against your practise , or you exclude the churches of england from the number of true churches . answ . we see not how such scruples could be raised without great mistake of our meaning , our expressions were so plain and distinct . for , 1 what if some separatists admit private communion with such , yet they reject your churches and ministery as null , which we doe not . and many of them have refused also such private communion . 2 we marvail how you could fall into such a mistake , as to suppose we onely allow the truth of sacraments for substance in other churches , when we speak in the same sentence of receiving satisfaction by letters , or otherwise concerning those we admit to the seales ; which plainly shew we speak of communion with such churches . 3 concerning fellowship with those churches , we may admit members of them to the seales with us , when we cannot always joyn with them in their administrations , by reason of some sinfull corruptions , wherein we must have actuall fellowship with them ; as your selves would not joyn , in case you must kneel at the lords-supper . 4 concerning the dilemma . we answer ; 1 our practice is not crosse to this profession . for such as come recommended from forein churches , and give such satisfaction as is meet , we doe receive ; and such as have wholly cast off all relation to english churches , and live amongst us , we have looked at as scattered stones , till they joyn some where in a church ; and themselves generally so judge of themselves ; but if any will hold to their membership in england , and come orderly to communion with us , we have not , nor shall not under that notion refuse them , if they be fit for the ordinances ; and therefore we exclude not the english churches out of the number , and herein we deal no otherwise with them , then with the members of our owne churches . reply . all possible care to keep the ordinances of god from contempt , we allow and commend , so you deny not church priviledges , to whom they are due , nor the name of churches to such as god hath blessed with meanes of grace , and have received the tables and seales , and entred covenant with god. your liberty to receive such satisfaction as is meet , is not questioned , nor whether you are to keep the bond of the spirit inviolable according to order : but whether this be according to order , to exclude from the sacrament true visible christians , or known recommended christians , formerly members of visible churches amongst us , and their children ; and to put such difference between them , and such as are in your church order . answ . 1 if the learned author would hold to what here is granted , we hope this controversie would soon be at an issue ; but it will appear after this order allowed binds onely in case of the ministers to dispense sacraments , but christians are left at a loose end , in respect of combining themselves unto particular churches according to the order of christ , which is the thing wee plead for . 2 we have not denyed the name of churches to such as are said to have plentifully the means of grace , tables , seales , and covenant . 3 concerning the stating of the question , too much liberty is taken , as in other cases ; for neither in the position , or in our answer , doe we limit the question to members in our church order , ( as here it is called ) but expresly extend the same to other churches of christ , though through error or humane frailty , defective in matters of order , yea , to the members of any true church , as in the answer is said . 2. concerning such as come over , and are for a time without seales , it is not because we refuse communion with them , as being members of your churches known , or recommended christians , as you say . for if any godly man remaining a member in any true church with you , or elswhere , come so recommended , or be well known to the church , we never under that notion refuse any , but giving such other satisfaction as is meet , shall readily receive them , as we always professe , and therefore we must still call for attendance to the state of this question in its right terms , viz. whether the children of godly parents , or themselves though of approved piety , are to be admitted to the seales , not being members of some particular congregation , or untill they be such . chap. iv. reply . to the first consideration : if by the church be understood the society of men professing the entire faith , the seales are given to it , as peculiar priviledges , but if you understand a congregationall assembly , the seales were never appropriated to it . answ . 1 our meaning is plain in the second sense , as may appear by the reasons alledged against any such universall church , as instituted and politicall , wherein the seales are dispensed , which reasons you answer not , but grant there is no such catholick church in our sense , pag. 21. and if no such church wherein the seales are administred , as we proved , then the cause it self is yeelded , and the seales must belong to particular churches . 2 seeing the main hinge of this question turns upon this point , to what church the administration and participation of the seals belong , wee shall a little further open our selves in this point . and because we affect and study peace with truth ; we shall freely acknowledge , first , that as there is an invisible church and body of christ , consisting of all the elect , effectually called throughout the world in all ages of it , the whole family in heaven and earth : so unto jesus christ , all the visible beleevers and churches of the world , are as one body to him , he governing , protecting , instructing all as his visible body . secondly , we acknowledge a visible communion of all the true churches of the lord jesus , in all offices of brotherly love , and in the holy things of christ , so far as may appear , the lord have ordained and commanded , and by his providence called them to exercise one with another . thirdly , we grant that all true beleevers , where-ever they bee , have by faith in christ , a true right and interest unto jesus christ and all his benefits , whatsoever he hath purchased for them ; but here we must first distinguish of these benefits of christ , whereof some are meerly spirituall , inward , and flowing immediately from christ unto them ; and therefore peculiar to true beleevers , as justification , sanctification , adoption , accesse to god in prayer , &c. some are outward and tending to the help and furtherance of our spirituall communion with christ , being outward and visible meanes thereof ; and therefore are also extended to hypocrites being visible beleevers , as the ministery of the word , seals , church-discipline , &c. and these cannot be dispensed by christ immediately nor ordinarily , but by means of a visible church . 2. we distinguish of right to these outward benefits of christ ; which is either remote , called , jus ad rem ; or near , and immediate , called , jus in re ; right to the enjoyment and fruition of it . now in the first sense we grant , all visible beleevers have a right to seals , &c. but the immediate fruition of them , they must have mediante ecclesiâ visibili : now here lyes the true state of the question , whether the lord jesus have ordained an universall visible church , in which , and unto which , by the officers thereof all these outward visible priviledges and means of grace , are to be dispensed and immediately enjoyed of the faithfull ; or whether ( not the remote right , but ) the immediate fruition and administration of all these ordinances by the institution of christ , be given to particular visible churches ; and surely to whom one of these is given , all are given : for there is the same nature , reason , and use of all , ministry of the word , seals , discipline , all are outward ordinances , priviledges , means of grace , belonging to the visible church , where christ hath given one , he hath given all . but we must confesse , however you call this , a new church way , it is new to us to read so much of late , of such a catholick church , to which administration of seals , censures , &c. belong . we are yet of the opinion of baynes , parker , and cartwright , &c. that have against papists and prelates maintained , that in the new testament there is no instituted catholick , nationall , or provinciall church ; but onely the church of a particular congregation , both for the reasons alledged in our answer , as also for the impossibility thereof in the days of the new testament , when the lord jesus sent his apostles into all the world ; therefore impossible both in regard of distance of place , and variety of language almost ever to meet in one , so much as by representation , and that not onely by accident , as may befall a particular church , by sickness , persecution , &c. but by the necessity of nature and invincible hinderances foreseen by christ , and intended by him . and therfore , as the lord limiting his church to one nation , united it into that form of a nationall church , ordaining one place , stated times and duties of worship , and one government for the same : so now the ●…ord neglecting all such things , hath ordained a compleat administration of all his ordinances in particular congregations , and therefore if there be no other instituted visible church but of a congregation , and seals in their administration be given to the church , our first consideration will still hold firm . but seeing in so vast a subject to say little , is to say nothing ; and there is scarce any truth in this wilie age but is almost disputed out of countenance , and much darkned with humane evasions ; and seeing much depends upon this controversie , it may be so most usefull before we come to the defence of our argument to take into consideration the nature and order of the visible church of christ catholick and particular . we are not ignorant of the knots and difficulties of this question , which of late have so much exercised the minds of many godly-learned : and we think the notions of a catholick church , as it is now held , being but newly taken up amongst-godly reformers , who formerly ran in another channell , ( as is ingenuously confessed by some according to the truth ) this new-birth seems not yet so formed to its distinct proportions , as time may bring it unto : and it might make us afraid ( being the weakest of many ) to venture upon so diffuse and knotty a question , when we look upon our own insufficiency to such a task , and the learned labors of such in this point , whom we reverence in the lord : yet , when we consider of what great weight and moment the clearing up of this truth would be unto the orderly proceedings of the great work of reformation in hand ; 2 how unavoydably it lyes in our way in this work the lord hath called us unto ; and that he sometimes doth vouchsafe to speak by weak ones , that the praise may be his own , in hope of his blessed guidance which we depend upon herein , taking the light of his word in our hands , we shall ( rather as learners then otherwise ) venture to propound what is suggested to us herein . concerning which having digressed a while , we shall return ( we hope ) with some advantage of clearer evidence to justifie the first argument of the answer , against what is said in the reply . chap. v. a digression tending to clear the state of that controversie concerning a catholick visible church , in respect of the nature , unity , visibility , and priority of the same . the world hath been long troubled with the equivocation of the word [ church : ] and therefore ( as it is needfull ) we shall labor to set down our thoughts as distinctly and plainly as we can in certain propositions that may be some ground of our discourse . proposition . 1 the true church of god is the whole number of elect and called ones out of the world to fellowship with jesus christ their head , with whom they make up one mysticall body , ephes . 1.23 . this whole church is of the same nature , and one in essence from the beginning of the world to the end ; for this church christ laid down his life , ephes . 5.26 . joh. 10.15 . and therefore he adds , vers . 16. such as are not yet of his fold ( actually ) shall be brought into the same , viz. by effectuall calling , that there may be one shepheard and one sheepfold : wherby it appears that the whole fold of christ to which he stands as one shepheard , contains all his members and sheep to the end of the world , and it is one fold in relation to christ that one shepheard . proposition . 2 this one entire body of christ doth naturally fall under various notions and considerations , as ( omitting others ) when it is considered according to the adjuncts of visibility and invisibility , which are onely adjuncts of the same church , as is generally observed by divines . in respect of the inward union which every such member hath with christ the head , by the spirit of christ , and by faith , whereby we are united to him ; it is called invisible , because this union is not visible to men . in respects of some visible fruits and manifestations of faith to the judgment of men , it is called visible ; and hence though true beleevers be onely univoce , and properly members of this body of christ ; yet to men that judge onely by outward effects many hypocrites , equivoce and improperly are accounted of the church ; and hence the scripture frequently speaks of visible churches , as if they were all really saints . proposition . 3 as this church comes to be visible , so it becomes a fit and capable subject of visible policy , and visible communion with christ their head , and one with another in all the visible ordinances of christ , a capable subject we say , or matter fit for such a state ; for by its visibility it self it is not so , having yet no more then a spirituall relation to christ and one another : no visible combination one with another ; for visible beleevers may be so scattered in severall countreys , that they cannot make up one society . proposition . 4 and therefore we add , that there is no way for this church to enjoy actuall visible communion under the visible government of christ , and in the visible instituted ordinances of christ , but in a society . a thousand uncombined persons meeting occasionally in one place , though their naturall relations were as near as brethren , yet have no power of government or actuall communion in any civill priviledges , if they stand not in relation to one another as a combined society ; as after shall be shown ; so here : and therefore , acts 2.41 , 42. first they were added to the church , and then followed their fellowship in all the ordinances of the church ; as after will more fully appear . and hence it is said , acts 5.14 . beleevers were added ; first they were beleevers , standing in that spirituall relation to christ and his whole body , and then added to the church by visible combination . proposition . 5 there is no visible society of a church who hath actuall and immediate right unto , and communion in the visible government of christ , and the dispensation of his instituted worship and ordinances , but such a society as the lord jesus hath in the gopel instituted and ordained for that end . we say actuall and immediate right unto the same ; for though a beleever , quâ beleever , have an immediate right , and actuall enjoyment of such benefits of christ as necessarily and immediately flow from his internall union with christ , as justification , adoption , &c. and such right to christian communion with all the saints in their prayers , gifts , &c. as flow from his spirituall relation unto them ; yea , and also he hath a true right to all benefits purchased by christ in a due order and manner : yet we say instituted priviledges and ordinances doe not immediately flow from spirituall union and relation to christ and his members , but are dispensed by christ to his people mediately , and in such an order as he hath in wisdome ordained : and this the nature of visible government and ordinances of christ necessarily requires . and hence it is , that although the church in its nature and essence , and in respect of its spirituall union and relation to christ and one another , profession of the same faith , &c. have been always one and the same in all ages , yet both the visible government and ordinances of worship , and also the instituted form and order of church-societies hath been various according to the wisdome and will of christ , whereby it appears , that the order , government , forms of visible church-societies , to which actuall enjoyment of visible ordinances doe belong , cannot justly be deduced from the common nature of the church cathoilck , or any respects of reason or logicall notions under which it may fall : but onely this depends upon the will and pleasure of christ , who hath in all ages instituted the forms and orders of such societies to whom the actual enjoyment of instituted ordinances was given : and hence the argument for a nationall form of a church to be in the new testament as wel as in the old , drawn from the common nature , essence , profession of faith , &c. of the church in all ages , falls flat to the ground , for by the same reason it must then be in families onely now , as it was about abrahams time . proposition . 6 hence it follows that the true state of this great dispute about a catholick church ( so far as tends to clear up to what church the actuall administration of church-government , and all instituted worship belongs ) doth not lye in the consideration of the common nature , essence , unity , visibility , or any other notions under which it may fall ; but the true state lyes here concerning the nature , order , form of such visible societies , as christ jesus by divine institution in the gospel hath reduced his visible members unto , for the actuall and immediate enjoyment of all his instituted ordinances . and therefore ( with due respect to the godly-learned be it spoken ) we conceive many large disputes in this question fall short of the issue that is desired and intended ; for what if it be granted : 1 that there is a catholick visible church , which in some respects of reason ( as mr. ball saith ) is one that having partes visibiles , is a totum visibile . 2 that the visible church is not onely a totum genericum , in relation to all the particular congregations , as species specialissimae , of a visible church in generall , ( which respect of reason in some sense we freely consent unto ) but also that it may fall under the notion of a totum integrale , as some contend , ( though we conceive in this notion , they are so intangled in their own logicall principles , as that they cannot get out without breaking them , and flying to theologicall considerations ) yet we say , what if that also be attained ? 3 yea further , what if this catholick church be in some respects of reason and order of nature also the first church , and particular churches , ortae ? 4 yea further , what if it were gained also by such disputes , that the keys and officers , ordinances , &c. be given firstly to this catholick church as to the object and end ? we confesse we do not see that what our brethren contend for , is by all this obtained . for , first , if the universall number of visible beleevers be one totum aggregatum ; yet it will bee hard to prove that these are one instituted and politicall society , that can enjoy visible communion together in visible worship and government ; and yet more hard to prove that by the institution of christ , these all are to be actually governed as one totum . secondly , what though the members of the church catholick be in order of time before particular churches , as being fit matter for them , and constituting of them ? yet this proves not one politicall body before they combine , but rather the contrary . thirdly , be it so that this catholick church is the first church to which christ hath firstly given the keys , ordinances , promises , &c. for which christ firstly performed the offices of king , priest , and prophet , and what else soever can be said in this kinde ; yet all this may be in this respect that christ looked at this catholick church firstly as the chief object and end for whose sake and good he ordained and gave all these things , and this will not carry the cause ; for as the church catholick visible in this sense is the first church in respect of the particulars , so the invisible body of christ is in nature and priority the first church in respect of visible , as visible ; for christ no doubt firstly intends and gives all these things to the invisible church , as to the object and end of the same for whose good they are all ordained ; rather then for the catholick visible church , which containes many hypocrites and reprobates within the verge of it . but now if we speak of a subject of the keys , to which the actuall exercise and dispensation of keys and instituted ordinances belong : who doe not see that in this sense the invisible church quâ talis , cannot be that instituted society to which the keys , &c. belong ; and by the same reason the catholick visible church quâ totum , and quâ catholick , cannot be this instituted society to which they are given . it is a known rule in reason , that , that which is first in intention , is last in execution ; and so it is here , first , christ propounds this end to himself to gather , edifie , perfect , sanctifie , save his catholick church , ephes . 4.11 , 12. & 5.26 . and therefore institutes all ordinances as means to farther and attain this great design ; but in execution he may ( for all this ) give the keys and ordinances in regard of the immediate exercise to any form of visible societies that he shall be pleased to institute , and it may be that will prove the least society sooner then a greater . and seeing our brethren otherwise minded make much use of similies in this dispute : we hope it will not be amisse for us to illustrate what we say by a similitude , ●…tly to make our conceivings the more plain to all whose edification we seek ; and partly , to discover the invalidity of many discourses of this nature ; and because similia arguunt fidemque faciunt , ( as he saith ) viz. so far as rightly applyed ) we will therefore propound it in way of argument . the similitude is this , genus humanum , or mankinde in generall is the subject of civill government in generall , and of all the priviledges thereof , as the object and the end : and let the question be , whether this catholick number of all mankinde is the first subject of all power of civill government , and the priviledges thereof ; and if so , whether such consequences will follow as our brethren deduce from the unity , visibility , and priority of the catholich church . now we reduce what we intend into an argument , thus : if all that can be said from scripture and reason concerning the unity , visibility , and priority of the catholick church , may as truly be affirmed upon like grounds of the catholick body of mankinde , then á pari it will follow that there is no more one catholick visible instituted totum , that is the first subject of church power and priviledges in the actuall exercise and enjoyment of the same , then that there is such a catholick body of mankinde that is the first subject of civill power , &c. and that actually doth or ought to govern and be governed as one catholick body in communion : but it will appear from scripture and reason , that the same things may be said of mankind that can be said of the other ; ergo. and it is proved per partes , thus : 1 for the unity ; are not all mankinde oft in scripture called the world ? joh. 3.16 . so god loved the world , that is , mankinde in the world ; which is one . so , frequently all mankinde is called man , gen. 6.5 , 6 , 7. i will not strive with man , &c. yea , it is one kingdom , psal . 145.11 , 12 , 13. which ( if we view the whole psalm ) must be understood of the generall government of gods providence over all the world , and especially mankinde therein , 1 chron. 29.11 , 12. &c. so that all is one kingdom , acts 17.26 . god hath made of one blood all nations ; all are one blood , all have their bounds set by god , &c. that they might seek him , and feel after him ; and as it is said for one catholick church , because it hath one lord , one faith , one baptism , one spirit , and are bound to love and pray one for the other , &c. so there is a like unity here , for the whole number of mankinde hath one lord and king over all , god who is king over all the earth called an head over all , 1 chron. 29.11 . yea , jesus christ is lord of lords , and king of kings , and head over all to the church , ephes . 1.22 . all have one law , the morall law , the common rule of equity and righteousness whereby they are bound to walk towards god and one another , and this writ in the hearts of all ; they have all one spirit of reason disposing them to society and mutuall offices of love , one faculty of speaking to fit them for communion , one end to feel after god , act. 17. and seek ye good of the whole kinde ; all ought to love one another , desire and seek the welfare of the whole , and of one another , esay 58.7 . yea , the lord as a common head by the working of his common providence , and out of his love of mankinde , hath a common and constant influence into all , giving not onely life and breath , and all good things , acts 17. but also all gifts of wisdom , art , skill , for government , &c. to kings , judges , fathers , masters , and all officers of civill government , for the good of the whole ; and what ever else may be said to prove the catholick church one , may here be applyed . and as for principles of reason , it is easie to conceive that all mankinde will fall either under the notion of one genus homo , whereof the individua are species specialissimae , or in another respect all persons , all families , cities , kingdomes may ( in a sense ) make one totum integrale , or aggregatum . secondly , it is as evident that all this number of mankinde are one visibile totum , by the arguments used for the visible catholick church , for that which hath visible parts , is a visible totum , it holds here as well as in the other case . yea , if the catholick church be one visible body , because it hath organs and visible officers in it , it will hold here , for all mankinde is but one army of the lord of hosts , who hath armies of heaven , and armies on earth , and in this body god by his providence hath set , and by his ordinance hath ordained fathers , masters , husbands , judges , kings , &c. to govern in this body of mankinde for the good of the whole . ruling and subjection by the fifth commandement of the morall law , which is in all mens hearts , is ordained of god for the order , peace , and welfare of all mankind , and therefore why is not this by the same reason a totum visibile ? thirdly , for priority , it is clear , that as god hath firstly in nature and intention given christ to the whole church , then to this and that particular beleever , and the power of feeding and being fed and governed by shepheards . first , to the whole race of sheep . secondly , to this or that flock . so in nature and gods intention he hath firstly given to the race of mankind power of being governed with government and governors , before they are given to this or that family , city , kingdom , &c. so likewise what is said of promises , given to the church catholick firstly ; is it not as true here ? those promises and blessings increase and multiply , subdue the earth and inhabite it . the feare and dread of you shall be on all beasts : and all like promises and priviledges of marriage , of liberty to eat flesh , &c. mentioned , gen. 2. & 9. and all over the scripture , are they not in nature first given to mankinde ? and then to this or that person , family , city ? so if church power , and all officers and offices be firstly given to the catholick church , not to this or that particular church : so it 's here , when the scripture saith , submit to the higher powers , for all powers are of god , rom. 13. by me , saith god , kings reign , and princes decree judgment , and such like scriptures ; doth this firstly belong to this or that kingdome , city , &c. and not rather that god hath firstly set up and ordained civil powers for mankind , to be obeyed of all mankinde firstly , and then in this or that state . is foederall holinesse first the priviledge of the catholick church ? ( which in a sense we will not now contradict ) so is legitimation , first the priviledge of married society in generall in all mankinde , and then of this or that family . are the members of particular churches firstly of the catholick church ; and is it not so here ? the members of every family , city , &c. first and last of the number of mankinde ; and so when the societies are dissolved , they are still of mankinde : and doe not all societies spring of mankinde , and are an additament and increase to it ? the one is true as well as the other . it would be over tedious to follow this parallel so farre as wee might , these may be sufficient instances to guide the reader to apply whatever else is , or can be said in this kinde from the common nature and logicall notions under which the catholick church visible may be considered : what is said that may more properly concern the case under the notion of an instituted society , we shall consider in due place . now from that which hath been said , the conclusion , as we conceive , doth easily and naturally follow , that as notwithstanding all that is said , there is no catholick visible body of mankinde , to which , or to the officers wherof is given the power and priviledges of civill government to rule this catholick body , either as one totum politicum ; or the parts of it , families , cities , kingdoms in communi , by subordination of all societies with reference to the whole ; or so as every king , major , &c. should be an officer of the whole . so these , and like consequences will not follow in respect of the guides , government , priviledges , &c. of the catholick church , notwithstanding all that is said from these considerations of unity , visibility , priority of nature , &c. object . 1 if any shall object , the case is not alike , because in this catholick church were universall officers set up , as the apostles ; not so in the world of mankinde . ans . we say , these were but for a time in the first beginning for the setting up of the first order in all the churches ; who being dead , there is none to succeed them in that respect of catholick power . secondly , we say likewise , at the first for a time adam , and after noah , had a generall power over mankinde , though after them none had the like , as it is here . and therefore the comparison stil runs clear . object . 2 if any object , as some doe , in answer to an argument somewhat like this , that this similitude holds not , because there is not that externall union of visible communion in the common-wealths of the world , as in the church ; if one say , god hath placed kings , dukes in the common-wealths , as in one organicall body who have one head , who giveth influence to so many organs of head , feet , &c. as the apostle speaketh of the body the church , 1 cor. 12. then indeed all the common-wealths of the world would make but one body . answ . to the scripture alledged we shall speak after , here onely let us clear our parallel . and first take the similitude as it is stated by us , and it will be clear . first , compare the catholick number of mankinde , with the catholick church , which is the number of called ones , and then there is as much externall union of visible communion in one , as in the other . for , first , all mankinde may and ought to maintain civill communion one with another , in all offices of humanity , for the common good of the whole , as the members of the catholick church doe , or ought to doe ; and common humanity , and the command of the morall law binds thereto , as well as christianity and rules of the gospel bind here . secondly , if we compare civill societies , as families , cities , common-wealths with instituted churches , it is as possible , and as well the duty of all common-wealths in the world , by principles of humanity , and the morall law in all mens hearts , to maintain externall union of leagues of friendship , and communion in all offices of civill society , as it is possible , and the duty of all church societies , by the principles of christianity , and rule of the gospel to maintain externall union of visible communion in the duties of church society . thirdly , ( not to dispute here whether there be such an externall union of visible communion amongst all the visible churches , as parts of the church catholick ) if the reason alledged be sufficient to prove the same , viz. because there is one head in the church , who giveth influence to so many organs of head , feet , eyes , &c. in the church . then still our parallel will hold ; for as this head is no other then christ jesus in his spirituall kingdom , the church giving that influence named ; so the same lord that is king and head over all , 1 chron. 29.11 . ephes . 1.22 . doth give influence to many organs in this body of mankinde , even to all kings , judges , fathers of families . and christ is the same in respect of all authority , power , gifts , administrations civill , &c. to this kingdome of men , as he is to the kingdom of his church of all power spiritual : and although the church be a body of nearer relation to christ , then the body of mankinde ; yet in regard of a common relation between a head and body there is a similitude , which is sufficient in this case . there is one thing more we meet withall that here we shall remove , viz. when it is objected that the catholick visible church cannot be one , because it cannot convent together in one society ; it is answered usually , that such comming together in one society is not needfull , because as a kingdom may be one , though all parts of it never meet together , having the same king , laws , &c. and as an army may be one , having the same generall , the same laws of discipline , the same cause , &c. though the severall brigades should never be drawn up into one body : so the catholick church having the same king , laws , cause , enemies , is but one though it never meet . to this we shall here reply so far as it lyes in our way : 1 as all union is for communion , and all communion flows from union ; so look of what nature the union is , such , and no other is the communion ; and look of what nature the communion ought to be , of like nature ought the union to be , else it will not reach the end . and therefore here as the mysticall spirituall union of the catholick church to christ the head by faith , and to one another by love , is sufficient to afford spirituall communion with the same : so unto politicall communion there must bee a politicall union into one policy . and as the nature of politicall communion is , such must the nature of the union be , that it may reach the end . to apply this , a politicall church is instituted of christ for communion in all the worship and ordinances of christ instituted in the gospel , as the ministery of the word , the seales and discipline ; now no church as one can have communion with christ and one another in these things , but it must have a politicall union suitable thereunto , that is , they must be one society that can at least meet to combine together . and therefore if all churches make one politicall body , for politicall communion , it must be such an union as will reach that end , which cannot be imagined in such a catholick totum politicum as the catholick church . 't is true , distinct churches ( as distinct kingdoms ) may have communion in some politicall priviledges answerable to their union , consisting in a fraternall relation one unto another , yet not make up one body politicall ; of which we speak . secondly , to the similitudes brought , we answer , this whole kingdom or army is properly and clearly one politicall body under one politicall head the king or general , as stands by covenant as members of that one policy ; and those who have right to choose their king or generall , may and doe some time or other convene . let the like be shewed in the catholick church , that all politicall churches are moulded up into one politicall body , either de jure , or de facto , or that it is possible ( as the case stands ) so to be , and then the similitudes would be of some use . thirdly , in a kingdom or army , suppose they never meet , yet there is such politicall union as fully reaches the politicall communion for which end it was combined , viz. that they should enjoy peace and justice in and by a just government , or by the protection of the army . but if such a politicall body were combined to have such communion as a church-communion is , then it would require conventing together , as elswhere we shall more fully manifest : for our parts , we do not see that christ hath ordained the whole catholick church as one , to have politicall communion together , which is impossible . and therefore we see no need of such a politicall combination , but as he hath ordained a brotherly communion of counsell and helpfulnesse one to another , as need requires ; so a spirituall relation and brotherly consociation of churches together is union sufficient for such a communion . and thus far we have endevored to take away all those arguments which are built upon the generall considerations of the unity , visibility and priority of the catholick church , which we leave to the consideration and examination of the judicious . we shall now , ( as the lord shall helpe us ) come to cleare the state of this knotty controversie , as we think it ought to be stated and carryed . viz. what is that form of a politicall church which jesus christ in the gospel hath instituted and appointed as the subject of church power of government , and administration of all the ordinances of the gospel for actuall communion with christ , and one with another therein ? and here give us leave before we enter into the question it self , to make a little further use of our former similitude for illustration ; and then we will shew where the ne plus ultra , as we conceive must stand . it hath been shewed in respect of the body of mankinde , that although much may be said for the unity , visibility , and priority thereof before any parts of it , yet no reason will inforce that it is the first subject of civill power , &c. in respect of actuall administration , and immediate enjoyment thereof , and so here in respect of the church . we will now add but this one thing more , that notwithstanding all such reasons , yet in execution for the good of the whole , the least civill society , yea , a family may be , and is the first subject of civill power , and priviledges of civill government ; so the least politicall church society may be the first subject of these keys of church power in the exercise thereof , and of immediate communion in all visible ordinances , and we think that there by divine institution it is seated , and the edification and perfection of the catholick church may best be attained thereby . concerning families , we see no footsteps in the propagation of mankinde from adam and noah , of any soveraign or universall government , further then in the first fathers of mankinde , after whom as they increased , families went out , and combining made cities , and so common-wealths by mutuall consent , as in gen. 10. and other stories appear , except by the tyrannous usurpations of some as nimrod , the rest were brought under ; and this no doubt amongst any free people is still the most orderly , just and safe way of erecting all forms of civill government ; families to combine into townes , cities , kingdomes , or aristocraticall states . but here some will say ; if so , that according to this similitude , a particular congregation may be the first church that have the keys of church power , and church communion ; then as families should combine into towns and cities , and they into greater common-wealths , for the good of all mankinde ; so here these first churches may not stand independently , but ought to combine into greater bodies , till they come to be one whole church ; to this we say , this will not follow upon this evident reason , because civill societies and government thereof , is herein left to rules of humane prudence by the lord and governor of the whole world ; and therefore may admit various forms of government , various laws and constitutions , various priviledges , &c. according as men shall conceive best for themselves , so they be not against the common morall rules of equity , and the good of those societies : but here in the kingdom of christ as wee must attend what kinde of church he hath instituted , so we must cleave to such rules , priviledges , and forms of government and administrations as he hath ordained , not presuming to goe one step beyond the same . and hence it is not in the power of any church to alienate the power , rights , or priviledges christ have set in the same , or to mould up any other politicall churches then he hath appointed ; and here we conceive stands immovably the ne plus ultra of this similitude between the visible church , and the estate of mankinde in reference to power and government , &c. all which things well weighed , to us seems to overthrow all such intermediate forms of churches , or the usuall churches , as mr. ball calls the same ; as , classicall , provinciall , diocesan , nationall , patriarchicall , &c. which we see not how according to the rule of christ they can be constituted either descendendo , from the common nature of the catholick church ; or ascendendo ; from the combination of particulars , except institution can bee found for the same . we find indeed , that some endevor to build such forms upon the foundation of morall principles , and the law of nature ; as , that god hath given government to be over a multitude , and that of many societies , as well as persons , that one society may not suffer as well as one person ; and that therefore must be given of the god of grace to a society and multitude of little churches power of externall government . to which we answer ; 1 that there is no such principle in nature that generally binds free societies to submit to one common government ; must many kingdoms , &c. by consequence all kingdoms combine in government , lest one kingdome bee hurt , i. must moab , ammon , edom , tyre , sydon , judea , &c. being so contiguous in near vicinity to each other , combine in one government ? 2 is it not as suitable to morality and reason , in such combinations , that they set up one to rule over them , when many grow ignorant , evill , or heady , to preserve peace , and prevent wrong , as to set up many ? 3 did abraham , lot , melchisedeck , and such family churches , walk against grounds of morality and nature , that did not so combine ? we might add more , but forbear ; but we could desire our dear brethren to be wary of scattering such principles ; for though in the matters of the church , and worship , and government of christ , grace doth not destroy nature , yet look as a particular church constitution and government was never erected by the law of nature ; but divine institution , so for the governing of many over one , why should there not be the like institution ? but to come more near to the case it self , we shall endeavour to clear two things : 1. that there is no catholick politicall church society instituted by christ , to which the actuall administration and participation of church government and communion in the instituted ordinances of christ , is given as to the first subject thereof . 2. that the true form of all church societies instituted by christ , to which he hath given the actuall administration and immediate participation of church government , and all other instituted ordinances , as the subject thereof , is onely congregationall . first , concerning the first , to make our discourse more distinct and plain , we shall premise here , that we doe not here at all take in , or respect that question about the power of the keys , whether it be in the fraternity or guides , ( we shall god willing have a fit place to speak something of it ) but here ( that we may not intermingle things ) we look onely at the true subject , in which , and unto which the actuall and immediate dispensation and participation of church government and outward ordinances is given by the institution of the gospel . and here we first reason thus , such a church society as christ instituted , the apostles of christ constituted and governed in : but the apostles never constituted such a catholick church society , or governed it in such a manner as is said : ergo. the proposition is evident , because the apostles were to do whatsoever christ commanded in matth. 28.20 . and were sufficiently furnished with power and wisdome so to doe : besides , the apostles having all power from christ as hee received from the father , john 20. and the whole number of beleevers being then at the fewest , there was never since such an opportunity or possibility to constitute such a church , if christ jesus had instituted such a thing . the assumption or second part of the reason is proved thus , if the apostles ever constituted and administred in such a church catholick , it was either that at jerusalem mentioned acts 1 , & 2. &c. or that assembly that met , acts 15. ( for we meet with no other that can with any colour of reason bee supposed ) but neither of these were such a constituted church ; ergo. 1 concerning the church named , acts 1. carryed on , acts 2. &c. we freely grant it was a constituted church , wherein the apostles with elders and deacons afterward chosen did govern , for as it is called a church , acts 2.47 . so likewise we see there were in it elections , act. 1. & 6 and administrations of instituted ordinances of worship , acts 2.41 , 42. admission of members , chap. 2.41 , 47. and by the same reason there might have been excommunication also : but that this church was not the catholick church , we prove thus : if it were the catholick church , then it was such either in respect of the whole essence of the catholick church , or in respect of representation ; but neither ways : ergo. the first it could not be , because it consisted at the first but of 120. which was a very small part of the catholick number of visible beleevers ; for , 1 cor. 15.6 . there were above 500 brethren to whom christ appeared at once , which was but some few weeks before , besides all that in the jewish church were converted and baptized by john , which were very many ; yea , if we speak of the catholick church , properly all the jewish church , not yet dissolved , were part of the catholick church of that age visible . lastly , if it had been the catholick church , beleevers being already of it , could not be said to be added to this ; as , acts 5.13 , 14. secondly , it was not catholick in respect of representation , for if so , then in respect of the apostles onely as the catholick guides , or in respect of the whole assembly with them , acts 1. not the first , for then the apostles onely should have had power to set apart barnabas and ma●…thias , but it is evident that that election was by peter himself committed to , and acted by the whole company called the brethren and disciples , acts 1.15 , 16 , 26. where it appears that as he spake to all , so it was concluded with the common suffrages of all . secondly , if so , because the apostles were catholick guides , then where-ever they met was a catholick church , yea , where two or three , or any one of them was , there was the catholick representative church , and so many such churches , for any two or one had the catholick power as well as all ; paul ordains , rules , and orders of discipline in all the churches , as well as if all the apostles had met , 1 cor. 7.17 . 1 cor. 16.1 . 2 that assembly was not the representative catholick church , because , first , there were the women in the same , now women are no way capable of being messengers to represent churches : secondly , besides , these could not be representative messengers from other churches , because this was the first constituted church ; we see no colour of reason that there were any other constituted visible churches before this . lastly , all the actions of that church mentioned , especially those in acts 2.41 , 42. of admission of members , baptism , word , seales , fellowship day by day in such ordinances , choice of deacons , &c. speak aloud against a representative church , we should rather have heard of constitutions , censures , &c. from such a representative catholick church of generall counsell . object . we are not ignorant what is said to the contrary , viz. that it was the catholick church , because they elected a catholick officer for the whole church , viz. an apostle . ans . to which we answer ; 1 all the catholick church and guides thereof had no power so to do , no more then a particular church , being a case reserved to christ himself , else pauls argument to prove his apostleship had not been strong ; because he was not called by man , but by christ himself , and had seen the lord , &c. gal. 1.1 . 1 cor. 9.1 . 2 the act of the church was onely a preparatory act thereunto with an after consent : the election was properly done immediately by a lot , and what was done might as well be done in the first particular church guided by the infallible spirit of the apostles , as by the catholick church it self . object . secondly , it is objected , many of these were men of galilee , which by their habitation could not pertain to the church in jerusalem . answ . true , the apostles and others were of galilee , but they had forsaken all to follow christ , and were commanded by christ to remain a time at jerusalem , and then to goe forth to samaria , judea , and the utmost parts of the earth , acts 1.4 , 8. and therfore no church relation in galilee could hinder them from joyning in this first constituted church , or give any colour that they came as members representative from any churches in galilee . and so much for the plea for a catholick church from acts 1. &c. now concerning that which is supposed of a catholick church representative in act. 15. if it were such , then in respect of the apostles ( the catholick officers ) onely , or in respect of the body of the assembly also , but in neither respects : ergo. 1 not the first , for then as was said , any one apostle may make a representative catholick church , having the whole power , as much as all of them together ; for though they would meet oft to consult and assist one another ; yet not for defect of power in any one ; and we think our brethren here will not say it was in respect of the apostles alone , supposing here they acted rather as elders with the rest , then out of their apostolicall power . 2 not in respect of the whole assembly , for then that assembly must consist of the messengers of all the particular churches , and the decrees should have been directed to all the churches ; but neither of these can appear ; for , first , wee read of no other messengers but those from antioch , and how to evince more then the scriptures reveal , is hard . secondly , if we look back and consider how far the gospel was spread before this assembly , it will appear very strange and absurd to suppose such a thing ; for paul had been in arabia before ever he came to ierusalem , gal. 1.17 . and when he and barnabas went sent out from antioch , acts 13. they went to severall islands and countreys , as cyprus , paphos , salamis , &c. besides what other places scattered christians and apostles had preached in : now there is no probability of messengers sent from all these places . secondly , the decrees were expresly directed to the gentiles beleeving , in antioch , syria , and cilicia , where it seems this question had troubled the minds of the disciples , acts 15.23 , 24. which was far short of the catholick church ; neither is it proved that the churches of syria and cilicia had any messengers there , much lesse that all the churches had their messengers . object . but it is said , they might have had their messengers there , if they would , and therefore they were bound to the decrees as of a generall councell . answ . it must first be proved , that all churches had lawfull summons to send their messengers to that assembly , before there can be laid any blame on them for neglecting the same , or they be all tyed to the decrees of such an assembly as a generall councell , which seems to us not so much as probable , much lesse to be proved by any where the scripture is so silent . argument . 2 every politicall body is constituted by the combination of all the members into a society . but christ hath not instituted that the catholick church should combine into a society . ergo. propos . proved , because there can be no instances given of any free society , civill or sacred , that was under policy , but that it arose from combination . how came israel to be one nationall church , but by a national covenant ? and that before it had officers ; or how comes any nationall , provinciall , classicall church that are pleaded for to be such , but by some such combination ? why is this church of this classis not of another but by combination ? secondly , in a politicall body , the whole hath power to order every part , but this power among persons that are free , is onely by combination . assump . proved : first , because christ never instituted that which is impossible , as this is , for the catholick visible church in every age so to doe . secondly , christ ordained combination for communion in his worship , but this communion also is impossible to the catholick church as one : ergo. thirdly , corrupt churches are visible churches , but it is hard for us to beleeve , or any to prove that christ hath instituted such combination of all churches , asian , african , european , american , corrupt and uncorrupt , for prudent men may easily foresee the heavy consequents thereof . argument . 3 every politicall church by the institution of christ hath power to elect her own pastor or pastors over it . but the catholick visible church hath not such power : ergo. proposit . proved . this all scripture examples shew , that every church or flock of beleevers had her pastor , act. 14. tit. 1. secondly , ( according to our brethrens principles ) if a particular church may choose a pastor , much more the catholick , because all priviledges are primarily given to the catholick church , and what belongs to the part of a similar body , ( as a part ) that much more belongs to the whole . assump . proved first , if the catholick church may choose pastors over it , then they may make apostles , because catholick pastors over the catholick church . secondly , the reasons against an universall bishop are strong here , as that their office is not described in the word , nor their power able to reach all churches . if it be said , that the catholick church can choose her pastors in the parts or particular societies , which are pastors of the catholick church , though not catholick pastors of the catholick church . answ . if this be meant of the particular churches choosing pastors over themselves , who are in some respects for the good of the whole , ( as being partes partium , and so partes totius ) then they come to our hand , for thus it appears that there is no catholick t●…tum , that is the subject of officers but in its parts . but the question is , whether all particular churches having the officers in them , do make one political body or catholick church , and so have power to choose catholick pastors . argument . 4 christ jesus instituted no such politicall body as destroys church policy . but such a catholick church politicall destroys policy : ergo. assump . proved : because it swallows up the power not onely of all churches congregationall , but all other forms of churches , by taking the power of excommunication from them ; for the power of excommunication is seated by christ in that church , from which there can be justly no appeal , for matth. 18. the power of excommunication is seated in such a church , as whatsoever it binds on earth , is bound in heaven by the highest judge , in the highest court ; and from the sentence of this highest court and judge , how can there be any appeal ? but now supposing such a catholick church having power of excommunication , and that as the highest church , hence no inferior church can binde on earth , so as that the same is bound in heaven , seeing appeales may be made from them to an higher power on earth . object . if it be said that the sentence of an inferior judge , proceeding rightly ( as in an inferior sanhedrin ) is ratified in heaven , yet may we appeale from him . answ . we deny that the sentence of every civill court doth binde in heaven ( in the sense of our saviour : ) for every civil court hath not this promise of binding and loo●…ing , the power of the keys not belonging to the civill magistrate . secondly , suppose there were such a binding in civill courts , and appeals may be yet made from them , yet this is because there is supposed a supreme court in being , to which the appeale may be prosecuted and there determined , ( as in the highest sanhedrin of israel . ) but there is not in the church , nor like to be , such a supreme court where such appeals may be ended : ergo. objection . 2 if it be said , that what a particular church binds on earth is bound in heaven , except they erre , but then appeals may be made , and their power is gone . answ . on this ground the universall church should not have power to bind on earth so as in heaven without appeales , for they may erre ; and that not onely rarely but frequently ; witnesse the complaint of nazianzen and others of the time passed ; yea , they may be as much inclined to erre , considering the greatest part of churches in the world are for the most part corrupt , yea , though they may have better eyes , yet they are further from the mark ; if particular churches have no power of excommunication , because they may erre , be corrupt , be partiall , or be divided ; upon the same consideration , neither classicall , nationall , or oecumeniall councells have any such power ; for they may erre , grow corrupt , be partiall , and be miserably divided , as well as a congregationall church ; other churches may admonish in case of scandall , and counsell , when a particular congregation wants light ; and moderate ( if desired ) in case of difference ; but still the power is in the particular church . other arguments might be added , but seeing this controversie , as we hope , will be more fully and purposely disputed by a farre better hand , therefore we shall fall to the consideration of such scriptures , and some few generall arguments which we meet withall in mr. ball briefly propounded , and in divers other authors more largely insisted upon ; which if the lord be pleased to helpe us to vindicate and clear up , we think other reasons and scriptures of lesse force will fall of themselves . and first we finde , cant. 6.4 . &c. to prove the whole catholick church visible to be one ministeriall body , because it is called one , compared to an army terrible with banners , in respect of the order of discipline , and described as being an organicall body having eyes , hair , teeth , &c. answ . 1 theologia symbolica non est argumentativa , except it can be made clear that the parable is applyed according to the true scope of it , and no further , which here is very hard to evince : we know the whole book of the canticles is variously applyed by good interpreters , brightman ( none of the meanest in this kinde of scriptures ) applyes this place to the church of geneva , and the times of purer churches to arise after it , which are said to be terrible as an army with banners ; not in respect of discipline , but in respect of warlike power , whereby that state of the church shall defend it self . 2 but suppose that it is a description of the catholick church visible , yet it cannot be a sufficient argument that it is one ministeriall church : for , first , the catholick church is the same in all ages , and therefore by this reason it was a catholick ministeriall body , as well in the days from adam to abraham , &c. as in the new testament . secondly , by this argument we may prove christ the head and husband of the church to be an organicall body , as he is the head of the church , for cant. 5.10 , 11. &c. the church doth allegorically describe the beauty and excellency of christ , in severall organs and parts : but we suppose though christ jesus in his humane nature hath members , yet the scope of the church is not at all to set forth the members of his humane body , but the glorious excellencies , and spirituall perfections of christ as the redeemer and saviour of his church , according to the manner of lovers , who are taken with the beauty of their spouses in all their members ; when the spouse saith , cant. 1.1 . let him kisse me with the kisses of his mouth ; it were too grosse to apply it to the humanity of christ , or to argue from thence that christ the husband of his church is an organicall body . thirdly and lastly , when the church is called one , the onely one of her mother ; though it 's true she is one , it seems rather to set out her excellency as rare , and but one , then her unity : and so the other descriptions all tend to set forth her beauty in the eye and esteem of christ ; neither is it any thing that the church is compared to an army terrible with banners , for in the same chap. vers . the last , she is compared to the company of mahanaim , or two armies , ( which is all one ) for the company of mahanaim consisted of two armies , gen. 32.1 , 2 , 3. where jacobs host meeting an host of angels , he calls the place mahanaim , or , two hosts ; and therefore we may as well say the catholick church is terrible , with two armies of banners , as one . answ . a second and chief scripture we meet withall in divers authors is 1 cor. 12.12 , 13. &c. whence the reason stands thus ▪ that church wherein apostles , prophets , teachers , &c. are set , is an organicall church . but those are set in the catholick visible church ; ergo. for the better clearing of this scripture , it is needfull , that we attend the scope of the apostle , who comming now to another branch of the things this church had written unto him about , chap. 7.1 . & 8.1 . & 12.1 . and this about spirituall gifts , wherein they abounded , chap. 1.7 . being the occasion of all their contentions and disorders , chap. 1.12 , 13. hence he is studious the more to re-unite them again , chap. 12.13 . and to direct them how to improve their gifts orderly to edification , chap. 14. and in this chapter he perswades their minds to unity who were divided , partly through pride in their own gifts ; partly , by disdain of others not so gifted ; hence he puts them in minde ; 1 what once they were following dumb idols . 2 that all gifts are from the free dispensation of god , and that one god , one lord , one spirit . 3 that god in his wisdom hath dispensed great variety of gifts , operations and administrations . 4 that all are given to profit withal , and these things he illustrates by a simile taken from a naturall body , which having largely presented and applyed to this church , vers . 27. he concludes with the variety of administrations in such things wherein they so much differed , chap. 1.12 , 13. god hath set , saith he , in the church not onely apostles , or prophets , or tongues , &c. but all these ; are all apostles ? are all prophets , & c ? no , but the wisdom of god hath given you variety of these gifts and administrations ; and therefore , chap. 3. to quiet them , he saith , paul an apostle , apollos an evangelist , &c. all are yours ; and as this is the scope of the apostle , so we see nothing in the chapter but is appliable to corinth in particular , yea , applyed unto them by the apostle , as what he spake vers . 22. of one body , he applyes to them , vers . 27. what he spake , vers . 28. of apostles , and other gifts set in the church , he applyes also to them , chap. 14. whereas he speaks of the exercise of divers gifts in that church , when the whole church came together , vers . 23 , so he speaks the same of himself an apostle , vers . 6. when i come , &c. we take notice of divers reasons alledged from the chapter , that he spake of the catholick church , but they doe not inforce it ; for grant such things are true of the catholick church in a sense , viz. that in it god works all in all , in it are diversities of gifts , &c. yet the apostles scope is to speak to this church , as hath been shewed , and all are truly applyable unto it , this church came behinde in no good gift , chap. 1.7 . this church was one body , vers . 27. and baptized into one body , whether jews or gentiles , bond or free , the members of this church needed the helpe one of another , must not make schismes in the body , must care one for another , &c. yea , apostles as well as other gifts were in the church , 1 cor. 3.1 . 1 cor. 14.6 . so that from the scope and drift of the apostle , all these offices and gifts might be , and were set in corinth , and therefore this place will not evince a catholick organicall body ; yet we mean not that apostles were wedged in here , but they were set also in every church , as also teachers are in every church , but each according to the nature of the office , the one limited , the other not . secondly , we deny not but in this discourse the apostle also , vers . 12 , 13. intendeth the whole mysticall body of christ , which is one christ , neither doe we deny that these gifts of apostles , prophets , &c. are given to this church , but this will not prove it to be an organicall church . for what is this body of christ , this one christ into whom all are baptized , &c. it is properly the whole company of true beleevers in all ages , and so containes the invisible body of christ ; which catholick body of all ages , cannot properly make an organicall body : and be it so , that this body is visible , having visible ordinances , baptized and drunk into one body , yet the apostle respects the ●…eall union of all the members to christ ; and therefore i 〈…〉 understand spirituall and effectuall baptism , containing the inward vertue with the outward sign . again , the apostles were 〈◊〉 for the gathering 〈◊〉 of the elect amongst all the heathen and 〈◊〉 , but that proves not all those elect ( who also are a part of christs sheep , john in ●● . ) were an organicall church , or a part of it , till called and added to the church . in a word , apostles , prophets , &c. were given to , and set in the mysticall body of christ , as the chief object had and for whose sake and good they were intentionally ordained of christ , but not set in it as one organicall body , for the actuall and immediate administration of the visible ordinances of christ to it , but thus 〈…〉 , as gathered into such church societies as the lord hath 〈◊〉 for that end , and in this sense we agree with 〈◊〉 mr. 〈…〉 of the right 〈…〉 pag. 2●…1 . a●● ( saith he ) to what ●…nd , and to what first principall subject hath the lord given reason , and the fa●…ulty to disco●… as it is peter , john , &c. as to the first subject , and to them as for their good ▪ no , no , it is 〈◊〉 , and for the race of mankind . the case is just so here , 1. cor. 12. ●…8 . god hath set apostles , &c. we say also it is just so here , as god hath given reason in respect of the end to mankinde first , and then to the individu●● ; so god hath set in the mysticall church for the good of it , as chiefly intended by christ , apostles , prophets , &c. but now as in the 〈◊〉 all dispensing of this gift of reason for the good of mankinde , reason is not given to any such body , as the whole race of mankinde , to descend to john , peter , &c. but first to john , peter , and all the individualls , that so by induction of all particulars , the whole kinde of reasonable man may be made up , and the end attained , and so it is here : god in giving officers and gifts for the good of the mysticall body of christ firstly , yet in execution gives these officers , and sets them in particular churches , that by the edification and perfection of all particulars , the whole may be attained . thirdly , apostles , prophets , and all gifts and offices in generall and indefinitely , are given to the church indefinitely considered , but particular officers , paul , cephas , apollo , titus , arabippus , &c. are given or set in particular churches ; we mean , according to the severall natures and extents of their offices ; as unto bees in generall ingi●●● a power to gather honey , and order themselves in their hives ; but in their exercise of this power it is given to the severall swarms in the hives , who have their queens , &c. to order themselves . but as this power in generall makes not a universall organicall body of bees ; no more here an universall organicall church . lastly , to speak more particularly , we conceive that the place in the utmost latitude of it is meant of the mysticall body , that one body into which all are baptized ; vers . 13. and that the fundamentall mistake of our brethren is this , that because the church here mentioned hath organs and politicall officers in it , that therefore it must needs make one politicall church , where some organs are to rule in common , and every part is to be subject to the whole . for although the mysticall church hath organs and politicall officers in it ; yet it follows not therefore that it is one politicall body . for the invisible church conjoyned with the visible , hath politicall officers set in it , and given to it as invisible , as well as visible , in respect of gods generall designation and particular application of them to this whole church ; yet it follows not that they are one politicall body by actuall combination thereunto ; actuall combination , we say , for although christs institution must warrant and prescribe all forms of politicall bodies , yet it will not be found that ever there was any politicall society without actuall combination , whether civill or sacred , whether nationall or more particular . the mysticall church may be said to be organicall in respect of the officers amongst them in the severall parts thereof ; every part being a part of the whole spiritually , though not politically . but it doth not thence follow that the whole is one politicall body , but mysticall . politicall officers may , and must suppose some part of the church to be visible , but not that the whole should be politicall . for the apostles ( by extraordinary commission for their time were officers of visible beleevers , fit matter for a combination , as well as of particular combinations : yet it follows not that visible beleevers existing out of combinations were a politicall society that would never meet to combine ; but they were onely a visible number of saints . we have been thus large in clearing this scripture , because we conceive the chief strength of the contrary opinion to lye in it . and this being answered , the light of it we hope will scatter the darknesse that is brought upon divers other scriptures which are drawn to prove such a kinde of catholick church , as rom. 12.4 . &c. col. 1.25 . 1 tim. 3 . 1●… . ephes . 4.11 . in which last scripture we never doubted but that the officers were given , not for that particular church of ephesus onely , much lesse to such a diminutive congregation consisting of 40 , 60 , or 100 onely , as if we intended to i●…pawn all power in this or that congregational body ; but to a congregationall church considered as the genus of all particular congregations of the world . neither to this congregationall church onely , but to all that are to be gathered to the unity of the faith . but doth this argue one politicall body consisting of all these ? for though , ve●…s . 16. the whole body be said to be compacted ; yet that this should be understood of a politicall , not spirituall way of compacting , we confesse ( with submission ) our weaknesse cannot apprehend . the last scripture which we find cited that seemeth to look this way , is 1 pet. 5.1 . feed the flock which is among you . answ . 1 we answer : it must necessarily be understood distributively , for the severall flocks in all those countreys to be fed by their particular elders ; not collectively , to be fed as one flock in common : for the countreys are so many and large , as it was impossible . yea , we have a clear parallel , james 2.2 . where writing to the jews of the twelve tribes scattered abroad , yet he speaks of a man comming into their assembly ; which cannot be meant collectively , as if they had one assembly amongst them all , but distributively of any assembly . 2 though they bee called a flock , not flocks , yet this , as r●…imes observes , was not because it was one flock really in themselves , but in some respect of reason ; which also he expounds to be per internam ( we had rather say , spiritualem ) unionem , but not per externam combinationem ; in respect of which spirituall union , that is true which mr. ball citeth out of cyprian , etsi pastores multi sumus , unam tamen greg●…m pascimus . as also that there is episcopatus unus & ecclesia una in ●…oto mundo . hence also may appear an answer to divers arguments , the chief whereof we shall run through . objection . 1 if by baptism we are not admitted into one particular church , but into the whole catholick visible church , 1 cor. 12.13 . then there is such a catholick church . answ . baptism admitteth us into the whole mysticall body of christ , whether visible or invisible of all ages : but this is not a catholick politicall body , of which we speak ; for then every baptized person should be a member of every particular church , and have an oare in every boat , in electing officers , admitting members , censuring offenders , &c. which mr. ball will not grant , and indeed would bring in endlesse confusion into the churches of christ . besides , no man can be a member of any combined society without their consent , for otherwise so many may croud into the church because baptized , as shall overthrow the edification thereof , and that against the consent of the church , and all the officers thereof . objection . 2 when any scandalous person is delivered to satan , he is cast out of the whole catholick church , ergo , he was a member of the whole catholick church , for he cannot be cast out who was never within . answ . 1 some answer that he is cast out of all onely consequenter , by reason of communion of churches ; neither doe we see that this is taken away by saying , that , as when the left hand cutteth off a finger of the right hand , it is not the left hand onely that cuts it off , but the whole man , deliberate reason and will consenting : for if this similitude would suit , then the whole catholick church must be called to consult and consent antecedenter , before a particular church can cut off any member , which ordinarily is impossible to be attain'd . 2 but further according to our former principles laid down , we say he that is justly cast out of one church , he is morally excommunicated out of all , but not politically and formally : for to excommunicate politically and formally , is by vertue of a superior authority next under christ ; so that what is bound by them , is bound in heaven . in which act the minister doth not onely bind the person , but also by vertue of his office chargeth the church not to have communion with him . but we doe not think that our brethren will say that one church putteth forth such an act of superior authority binding or charging all churches politicè and judicialit●…r not to have communion with him ; for so one church should exercise jurisdiction over all churches , and that without their actuall approbation , for , quod spectat ad 〈◊〉 , debat ob 〈◊〉 approbari . if it be said , that a particular church doth excommunicate by an intrinsecall power not onely in it self , but intrinsicall in the whole body ; the question will be , what is that intrinsicall power ? is it naturall or voluntary ? to say it is naturall , were too absurd ; it voluntary , then neither congregations , classes , provinces , nations , have power to excommunicate without the previous consent of the whole catholick church , which must voluntarily concurr thereunto . and if the catholick presbytery ( as 〈◊〉 said ) have no next , but a a remote power of excommunication , and this remote power bee extraordinary , or rare contingens , or almost never , then the ordinary power of excommunication , ( which is enough for us ) is not from an intrins●…call power of the church catholick . on the other side ( if it be said ) this power is in the whole , but not derived from the whole to the parts , as the power of seeing is first in the man , then in the eye , yet not derived from hands , leggs , shoulders , &c. and as the great body of the sunn hath intrinsecall light in every part , not by derivation from one part to another ; so this power of the keys is from christ the head to all the integral parts in points that severally concern the same . first , if this be so , then every particular congregation receives its power of the keys immediately from christ , not by derivation from any presbytery , or the catholick church , and is in that respect independent . neither also can congregations derive the power seated in them to presbyteries , nor any greater bodies take it from them . secondly , though we acknowledge this intrinsecall power of excommunication in particular congregations , as being there properly seated by christ ; yet that there are any such politicall churches , classicall , provinciall , nationall , or catholick , that have any such intrinsecall power as is in the sunn , this is not yet proved to our understanding ▪ we deny ●…ot the use of lesser and greater synod●… , nor of such doctrinall power o●… the pa●●ern acts 15. holdeth forth , and which is all that learned * m●… . rutherford conceives to belong to a generall councell ; for thus he saith , verily , i professe i cannot see wh●● power of jurisdiction t●… censure scandalls can be in a generall councell , there ma●…ke some 〈◊〉 doctrinall power in such a c●…uncell , if such could be had and that is all . and how a nationall , provinciall , or classicall synod being lesser parts of the whole , can put forth such acts as the whole cannot do , ipsi vid●…rint . 't is t●…ue , a particular church may formally cast out a scandalous member according to the rule , matth. 18. yet the argument from proportion will not hold in 〈◊〉 of the power of excommunication in greater assemblies against any particular church offending , ( though other means appointed by christ we deny not ) for if excommunication casteth out an offender out of all churches , then such a particular church cannot be excommunicated , except it could be cast out of it self , though it may be deprived of the communion of other churches . lastly , if it be no sin , ( as is said ) but a crosse , that the catholick church cannot meet to put forth its supposed int●…insecall power , then let the particular churches enjoy that power till the catholick church can meet . a it seems to us very strange that the lord jesus should institute such a supreme power in a catholick body , which ( a●… is said ) de jure , should be till the comming of christ , and yet should be interrupted by the sin of man so many ages , and which ( for ought appeares ) never orderly met to this day . objection . 3 if all pastors be pastors of the catholick church , then there is such a catholick church ; but all pastors are pastors of the catholick church : ergo. answ . if it be meant thus , that they are pastors of some particular part of the church , and in that respect in the whole , and for the good of the whole , the good of every part redo●…nding to the good of the whole ; yea , if some pastorall care also be intended towards other churches , and to fetch in such as are yet not of the church ; we grant all this according to the meaning of that pl●…ce , 1 cor. 12.28 . formerly opened by us . but if this argument intend that they are pastors of the catholick body as of one politicall church , then we deny the assumption upon this ground ; because a pastorall office consi●…ts properly i●… having a charge and power over those to whom he is a pastor , act. 20. ●…8 . but he hath no charge of the whole ; for if so , he must give account to christ of the whole ; neither hath he power over such a catholick church , being never chosen by it , ●…or it subjecting to him . if it be said , such are made pastors by ordina●…ion of the presby●●●● ▪ not the election of the people who onely appropriate him to themselves ▪ who is a pastor of the whole church then he is either a catholick pastor that hath power to int●… 〈◊〉 in all churches , as the apostles had , which we think none will ye●…l●… them ▪ or else they are pastors onely in name , without power which is absurd ▪ nor doth the similitude of a 〈◊〉 made doctor of physick at large by a colledge of physitians , helpe in this case . for it supposeth him to be made such ●… doctor before he be elected by any people to exercise this faculty ; which apply●…d to this case of a pastor , ●…s having ordination to make him a pastor at large , before election to th●● or that people is utterly against all examples of scri●●ure , 〈◊〉 act●… 1. & ●… . & 14 , objection . 4 that whi●● belongeth to a little part of a similar body ( and t●…lis ) belonge to a greater part much more , and therefore if the imm●…di●…te exercise of the keys b●…long to a single congregation , then much more to the whole , and to 〈…〉 of the whole . answ . 1 such as say that the catholick church is a similar body , had need explicate the●…selves . for to speak properly and strictly , by this ●…ile every particular visible beleever being a part of the whole as a 〈…〉 , must have nomen & naturam totius , and so every beleever is a church ; or if they so divide this catholick similar body , as to make a particular congr●…gation that can joyn in gods ordi●…anc●● , the 〈◊〉 quod st●… then particular visible beleever●… considered as existing out of these congregations cannot be m●…mbers formally of the catholick visible church . 2 we a●… knowledge the catholick church considered as visible and invis●●●● , i●… one spirituall or mysticall body , yet this catholick body is under ●…o catholick policy ; but onely in the severall parts of it , ( 〈◊〉 hath been proved before ) and in this respect the church , which is spiritually one body , is politicè many bodies : so that the parts of this spirituall totum are not distinct bodies 〈…〉 , ( for then every company of women are a church body ) but 〈…〉 ; and hence though the catholick church 〈…〉 body spiritually , ( due cautions and interpretations observed ) yet it is not one similar body politically ; and hence every society of beleevers is not a church . hence though it be true , that what belongs to a part of a similar body , as a part , belongeth much more to the whole ; and that therefore what belongs to a particular church , belongs much more to the whole : it is true in this sense , viz. what belongs to the part of the whole as spirituall , and so participates the nature of the whole , belongs much more to the whole , because the whole is spirituall : yet what belongs to the part as politicall , doth not much more belong to the whole , because the whole is not politicall : exempli gradi●… , consider a particular congregation , as a number redeemed , called to christ , 〈◊〉 to him , this much more belongs to the whole ; and so if any priviledge belong to them as such , much more to the whole . ye●… consider a church as a combined body , so what belongs to this part , belongs not to the whole . for it belongs to the part to elect and enjoy constantly pastors over it , but this doth not belong to the whole as a totum . the catholick mysticall church is indeed the prima materia , out of which politicall churches by their combination are formed , but it is no first formed politicall similar church , whence every particular church immediately participates of the nature of that whole ; having 〈…〉 tem talis materiae & partem form●… . answ . objection . 5 if there be church communion between all churches , then there is one catholick church : but there is church communion of all churches in hearing , receiving sacraments , exhorting one another , praying one for another , &c. ergo. we deny the consequence ; for there may be a ●…ra●●●nall , ecclesiasticall communion , not onely internally , but externally , without such an union as makes one politicall combined body , such as here we dispute of ; as , two or three congregations may have communion together , and yet not be one politicall body : twenty synagogues might have communion together in the jewish policy , and yet were not one politicall body : so the churches of galatia might have communion together , yet were distinct churches , not one church , a●… also , the churches of new england have sweet and blessed comm●…nion , yet are distinct . and though the churches of gala●…ia were called a whole l●…mp , ( as is objected ) yet were they thus by politicall combination , or as dr. downam ( to mould up a diocesan church ) compares the first church to a great lump of dough , or batch of bread , out of which particular churches were formed into many loaves ; or not rather called a lump by spirituall union and relation , common profession , and fraternall communion , being all the same countrey-men ; so also the apostles had church communion , yet were not a politicall body . kingdoms so may have civil communion and commerce , yet not be one kingdom . objection . 6 if the keys be given to a particular church under the notion of the spouse of christ , a flock of redeemed ones , &c. and then much more to the catholick visible church , which is the spouse of christ , and flock of redeemed ones primarily , and to a particular church onely secondarily ; but the first is affirmed by such as deny such a catholick church : ergo. answ . 1 it is true , the notion of a flock of redeemed ones of the body , and spouse of christ , kingdom , house , &c. doe agree primarily to the church , not of this , but of all ages , and secondarily to the church of this age , colos . 1.18 . ephes . 5.25 , 26. and 2.19 . 2 the church which is the body of christ existing in this age , the keys are given to it primarily , in comparison of particular churches coexisting with it , as to the chief object and end ; but not to it as a politicall body , in respect of actuall and immediate dispensation thereof : for ( as we have oft said ) if in respect of politicall dispensation the keys belong firstly to the body of christ as his spouse and redeemed ones ; then the church invisible as invisible , rather then visible , must have the dispensation of the keys primarily . 3 it is not said , that the keys are immediately given to a particular church abstractly , as a number of redeemed , but as consociated and politically combined : and in this respect that may be attributed to the part , a particular congregation of redeemed ones , which cannot be attributed to the whole . ex. gr . such a congregation is combined , so is not the whole , nor can be ; such a church may choose a pastor over it , but so cannot the whole ; so a man may tell the particular church , who may convene together , not so the whole . thus far ( through the helpe of christ ) we have endevoured to clear the first point propounded concerning a catholick instituted church . we come now to prove the second point , viz. that jesus christ hath instituted in the gospel a particular church of one congregation , in which , and unto which the actuall and immediate dispensation and participation of all instituted worship doe regularly and ordinarily belong . and here we shall shew : 1 what such a particular church is . 2 how the dispensation of church power and priviledge do belong unto it . for the first , we shall declare our selves in these five propositions . 1 it must be a visible society , for one man cannot make a church , nor can many visible beleevers living severally , without society in severall nations make one church . 2 it 's not every society of visible professors that doe make a church , for then every family of such professors are a church : then two or three ( which our brethren so much condemn ) are a church ; and then a society of women professing the truth may be a politicall church ; then many members of severall churches met to hear a sermon , or any like occasion , make a church ; then a number of professors may constitute a diocesan church , or any like form ; for out of this block , that any number of beleevers made a church , dr. downam hewed out his diocesan church , and so made a fit seat for his diocesan mercury . lastly , then particular churches should have no more any set form prescribed , then civill government , which is as variable as humane wisdome sees meet , for hence a particular church may be melted into any form or mould of civil society ; for imagine a number of professing beleevers , cohabiting either in a city , hundred , wapentake , shire , province , nation , empire , &c. there shall then be so many forms of churches contrary to the principles and unanswerable arguments of our best reformers , who accounted it a great absurdity that the heavenly kingdome of christ should be moulded and framed according to the weaknesse of humane wisdome and policy . 3 it must therefore be a society combined , and that by a covenant explicite or implicite , for it must be such a combined society where the whole have power over its members ; now whatever power one hath over another , if it be not by way of conquest or naturall relation , ( as the father over the childe ) it is by covenant , as husband and wife , master and servant , prince and people ; other powers are but usurpations : it is noted as a prophane speech in bronnus , who professed he knew no other rule of justice , then for the greater to subdue the lesse . again , it is such a society as hath an ordinate power , to subject it self to officers , by electing of them to administer ordinances amongst them ; but this is onely a federall society . again , it is such a society , to the making up of which is required something more then faith , acts 5.14 . beleevers were added to the lord , or to his church ; so that they were first beleevers , before they were added to the church ; for there may be a number of beleevers converted at one sermon , and immediately scattered into many towns or countreys : now , if faith professed alone , makes not a church , but somewhat more is required , what can that be but foederall combination ? lastly , that , the dissolution whereof doth unchurch a people , doth constitute a church : but breaking the combination dissolves the church , whether by consent , schism , or when god himself removes the candlestick : ergo. 4 though a church be such by combining , and so subjecting themselves to the power of others , yet it must not be herein illimited , but according to the form and mould expressed in the word ; for if they have this power to combine as many , and as largely as they will , then a diocese , province , nation , may combine , and so put themselves under the power of a diocesan , provinciall ▪ nationall society , which is unlawfull ; for the church must be such a form as a man may ordinarily bring offences unto it , according to matth. 18. tell the church ; but that cannot be in a diocese , much lesse in a province or nation , where the members can neither take notice of the offence , nor ordinarily so much as consent unto any censure acted by any officers in such a church ; nay , further , if their power be unlimited , they may choose a diocesan pastor , one , or many to feed all , or one to rule ( like beza his episcopus humanus ) with subjection in case of error to the censure of all ; nay , hence we see not , but they may choose an universall pastor , and so give away the power to one , if all will agree . in a word , they onely may combine into a politicall body , where the whole may excommunicate any part ; but this cannot be in a combination of many churches into one whole , because no particular church is capable of excommunication , for it is impossible to be cast out of it self , as was said before . 5 a particular church therefore must be such a society as is so combined together , that it may ordinarily enjoy church communion , to exercise church power , to be fed by her officers , and led by them ; hence titus was to set elders in every church , and these elders were such as could ordinarily feed them , by preaching the word , as well as rule and govern them . now that such a congregationall church is the institution of the gospel , appears first by those many scriptures that speak of the churches of one countrey , and in small compasse , as severall churches , not as one , as the churches of judea , samaria , and galilee , acts 9. the churches of galatia , gal. 1.1 . yea , not only in one small countrey , but in cities , or near unto them ; we read of distinct churches , as corinth , though god had much people ▪ there , yet it was one congregation , 1 cor. 14.33 . and had another church near to it , viz. cenchrea : also rome , whom the apostle saluting , sends also salutations by them to aquila and priscilla , with the church in their houshold , which shew they were not far from that church of rome . to these add , that jerusalem the first church that was constituted by the apostles , and whose number was the greatest of any that we read of , yet it was but one congregation , as is evident by acts 1. and chap. 2.41 , 42. what is objected against this to prove it the catholick church , was answered before ; other objections against this , and like examples , shall be considered in their due place , as we meet with them . but we shall not need to say much , that a congregation furnished with its officers is a church according to the institution of the gospel , but there are more objections against the compleatnesse thereof , which yet is proved thus , that church which hath power of all the keys given unto it for actuall administration within it self , is a compleat church : but so hath a particular congregation , ergo. the first part is evident ; because where all the keys are with full power to administer the same , there nothing is wanting ; the assumption is proved thus , if all those officers to whom is given the authoritative power of exercising the keys , be given to a congregation ; then all the keys are so given to it , but so it is ; for since apostles and extraordinary officers ceased , there are no other officers but pastors , teachers , and rulers , called sometimes bishops , sometimes elders : but these officers are given to such a church , as is proved acts 14. tit. 1.4 . and is acknowledged in all reformed churches , who ordain such officers in particular churches of one congregation : ergo. objection . 1 if it be said , that though a congregation hath such officers as have the power of the keys , yet that such must combine with others in way of co-ordination to govern in common , and so to be helped and compleated by them . answ . we grant much help may be had by sister churches , and consultative presbyteries , but that which takes away the exercise of the keys in point of government from the church to whom christ hath given it , doth not compleat it , but take away and destroy the power and liberty of it ; for though the pastor of a congregation may oft consent , yet the major part of the presbytery must carry it , whether he consent or no , and therefore his power is swallowed up . besides , it seems to us a mystery , that every pastor , even such as have no flock , should be pastors of the catholick church , and yet a pastor should not have power to rule in his own flock over which christ hath made him a bishop , and for which flock he must give account unto god. objection . 2 it cannot have a synod , which is one ordinance of god , therefore it is not a compleat church . answ . by this reason a classicall church is not compleat , because it cannot have a nationall councell ; nor a nationall church , because it cannot have a generall councell ; if it be said a classis have all ordinary meanes to a compleat church , we say the like of a congregation . objection . 3 though a town or family being cast alone , may govern as a compleat body ; yet when it stands in a common-wealth , as in england , it may not be so independent , but submit to combinations : so here when a particular congregation is alone , it may govern as compleat ; not so when amongst other churches . answ . if such a town or family have compleat power , and all civill officers within it self , it is not bound to submit to such combinations in a common-wealth , except it be under a superior power that can command the same . as abraham having a compleat government in his family was not bound to combine with the governments he came amongst , neither did he ; in prudence he joyned in a league of amity and for mutual help with aner , &c. but not to submit to their government : so here a church having compleat officers is not bound to submit to such combinations , except it be proved that any superior power of other churches can command the same . secondly , though a family not having compleat civill government in it self must combine where it stands in a commonwealth , yet never to yeeld up its family-government over wife , children and servants to rule them in common with other masters of families , no civill prudence or morall rule taught men ever so to practise ; and therefore why in such a case should a church give up the government of it self to pastors of many churches to rule it in common , and not rather as a classis is over-awed by the provinciall onely in common things ; so in congregations pastors should govern their flocks , and onely in things common be under a presbytery . if it be said , that the classis do act in such things only ; for in excommunication of an offender , the offence is common to all . we answer , if so , then why should not the provinciall and nationall churches by this reason assume all to themselves from the classis ? for the offence of one is common to all : as also upon this ground , why should not the classis admit all the members of every congregation under them ? for this also may concern them all . thirdly , here is a great difference , for civill societies are left to civill prudence ; and may give up themselves to many forms of government : but churches are bound to use and maintain such order of government as christ hath set in the church , and not to give it up to many , no more then to one ▪ if testimonies were needfull , we might produce zanchi , zwinglius , parker , baines , and others , who are fully with us in this doctrine of a particular church ; yea , dr. downam himself confesseth ; that the most of the churches in the time of the apostle paul did not exceed the proportion of a populous congregation ; and this confession puts us in minde of a witty passage of his refuter , or his epistoler , who against the bishops maintains the doctrine of congregationall churches with us ; with whose expressions , ( for the recreation of our selves and the reader ) we will conclude : the papist , ( saith he ) he tels us ( just as the organs goe at rome ) that the extent of a bishops jurisdiction is not limited but by the popes appointment , his power of it self indifferently reaching over all the world . our prelatists would perswade us ( to the tune of canterbury ) that neither church nor bishop hath his bounds determined by the pope , nor yet by christ in the scriptures , but left to the pleasure of princes , to be cast into one mould with the civill state. now the plain christian finding nothing but humane uncertainties in either of these devises , he contenteth himself with plain song , and knowing that christ hath appointed christians to gather themselves into such societies as may assemble themselves together for the worship of god , and that unto such he hath given their peculiar pastors ; he , i say , in his simplicity calleth these assemblies , the churches of christ , and these pastors , his bishops . thus much concerning the nature of a particular church , and that it is instituted in the gospel . now in the second place wee are to shew how church government and ordinances are given to it as to the proper subject of the same . where we shall propound these theses for explication of our selves . first , though pastourship considered as an office in relation to a people to feed them authoritatively , be one of these ordinances given to a particular church : yet christ hath given it for the gathering in of his elect unto the church , and therfore wee grant some acts of the ministery , viz. the preaching of the word , is to be extended beyond the bounds of the church . secondly , seales and other priviledges although de jure , and remotely they belong to the catholique church , or the number of beleevers : yet de facto and nextly they belong properly to this subject which wee speake of , ( as wee hope to make good . ) thirdly , they are not so appropriated to such congregations onely as to exclude the members of those congregations which are under the government of a common presbytery or other formes of government , for wee have a brotherly esteeme of such congregations , notwithstanding that tertium quoddam separabile of government , ( as mr. baines cals it ) being a thing that commeth to a church now constituted , and may be absent , the church remaining a church . fourthly , although it be said by some divines , that as faith is the internall form of the church , so profession of faith is the outward form , and that therefore bare profession of faith makes a member of the visible church , yet this must be understood according to the interpretations of some of them who so speak , for there is a double profession of faith ; personall , which is acted severally by particular persons ; and common , which is acted conjointly in , and with a society : the first makes a man of the catholick number of visible saints , and so fit matter for politicall church-society : the other makes a man of the politicall church formally and compleatly ; and in this latter sense profession of faith is the externall form of a visible church , but not in the other . now that in and to this subject so professing , the seals and other ordinances belong may , be proved thus : argument . 1 first , the seals and other church-ordinances must either belong to the catholick church as such , or to the particular church : but these cannot belong to the catholick in actuall dispensation whereof we now speak : ergo. for that church which is uncapable of actuall dispensation of seales , censures , &c. is uncapable of the participation thereof in an orderly and ordinary way ; but the catholick number of visible beleevers as catholick , and out of particular societies , are not capable of dispensing the same ; ergo. the proposition is evident , for it cannot be shewed that any church in the new testament was ever capable of participating in seals , that was not capable of dispensing them , at least not having a next power to elect officers to do it . the assumption is evident from what hath been proved , that it is no politicall body ( the sole subject of church administrations ) neither in the whole , nor in the parts as existing out of congregations . argument . 2 if the members of the catholick church be bound to joyn into particular societies , that they may partake of seals , &c. then the seals are not to be administred immediatly to them , for then they should have the end without the means . but they are bound to joyn in such societies for that end , for otherwise there is no necessity of erecting any particular churches in the world ; and so all the glory of christ in this respect should be laid in the dust , and these particular temples destroyed , and thus a door of liberty is opened to many to live loosely without the care and watch , and communion of any particular church in the world . argument . 3 if the seals are to be administred immediately to beleevers , or professing beleevers as such , then they may be administred privately to any one where-ever he be found ; but that were very irregular and against the common doctrine of protestant divines , who give large testimony against private baptism , or of the lords-supper , neither doe we see any weight in the arguments of the papists or anabaptists alledged for the contrary . argument . 4 lest we seem to stand alone in this controversies , let the arguments produced by didoclavius , and him that writes concerning perth assembly against private baptisms , be considered , and it will be found that most of them doe strongly conclude against administration thereof to any but church-members . argument . 5 the learned author mr. ball in this his dispute against our conclusion : yet in his discourse let fall sundry things that confirm it ; as when he describes the catholick church to be the society of men professing the faith of christ , divided into many particular churches . whence we argue , if the catholick church existeth onely in these particular churches , the seales must onely be given to them and the members thereof ; also , that baptism is a solemn admission into the church of christ , and must of necessity be administred in a particular society : whence three things will follow ; first , that baptism sometimes administred privately by the apostles is not an ordinary pattern . secondly , that baptism is not to be administred to beleevers ( as such ) immediatly , if of necessity it must be administred in a particular society . thirdly , joyning to some particular society being an ordinance of god of so great concernment ; & if baptism must be administred in it , why ought not , why may not such joyn to that society ? ( at least as members for a time . ) also when he saith divers times , that men are made members of the church by baptism , ( speaking of such churches as choose officers over them ; ) yea , that the apostles constituted chrches by baptism , and the like , ( which we shall note in the answer ; ) now what doe these argue but a yeelding of the cause ? for if the apostles made members , and constituted churches by baptism , this was onely sacramentally , and if so , then of necessity they must be really members of such churches before baptism . thus we have run through this large field of the catholick and particular church , which hath detained us longer then we intended ; yet , to prevent mistakes from any thing that have been said concerning the union , communion , and combination of the churches ; we shall add these two things . 1 we observe that the scripture speaks of the church , sometimes as one body , sometimes as many , and therefore called churches ; and hence our care is to preserve not onely the distinction of churches , ( as many by particular combinations ) but also their unity , as being one by spirituall relation . 2 association of divers particular churches we hold needfull , as well as the combination of members into one ; yet so as there be no schism of one from another , nor usurpation of one over another , that either one should deprive the rest of peace by schism ; or many should deprive any one of its power by usurpation ; hence a fraternall consociation we acknowledge ; consociation we say , for mutuall counsell and helpe , to prevent or remove sinne and schism ; yet fraternall onely , to preserve each others power ; consociation of churches we would have cumulative , ( not in words , but in deed ) to strengthen the power of particular churches , not privative , to take away any power which they had from the gift of christ before . for as on the one side it may seem strange that one church offending should have no means of cure by the conceived power of many ; so on the other side the danger may appear as great , and frequently falls out , that when many churches are scandalous , one innocent church may be hurt by the usurpation of all . and hence we see not , but that fraternall consociation is the best medicine to heal the wounds of both . we utterly dislike such independency as that which is maintained by contempt , or carelesse neglect of sister churches ; faciunt favos & vespae , faciunt ecclesias & marcionitae , saith tertullian . we utterly dislike such dependency of churches upon others , as is built upon usurpations and spoils of particular churches . having thus largely digressed for the clearing of the foundation of the dispute in hand , we desire to be excused if we be the more brief in our answers to particulars , which now we shall attend unto as they lye in order . chap. vi. reply . the seals are given unto the church not onely in ordinary , ( as you say ) but also in extraordinary dispensation , &c. and when you say , the dispensing of the seals is an ordinance given onely for the edifying of the church gathered , must it not be understood of extraordinary dispensation as well as of ordinary , &c. added these words [ ordinary dispensation ] were , to prevent the objection which you foresaw might be made from the apostles practice and example , but so as they cut asunder the sinews of the consideration it self , and make it of no force . answ . before we come to the particulars of the reply , it is needfull to clear our meaning from this mistake about the word [ ordinary dispensation ; ] which being rightly understood , it will appear that it no way cuts the sinews of the consideration as is objected . for whereas , first , you extend the opposite term , [ extraordinary dispensation ] to the whole generall practice of the apostles and evangelists ; and secondly , take it for granted , that their practice was not to baptize members of particular churches ▪ we neither intended the first , nor doe we grant the second ; as for the first , we acknowledge freely that the apostles and evangelists ordinarily and generally practiced according to comon rules in this point of baptizing , as well as in other , and left their practice for our pattern , and therefore their ordinary practice in this thing we shall stick to ; yet they having not onely extraordinary power above pastors and teachers , but also having sometime an immediate call unto some acts and speciall guidance of the spirit to warrant what they did , therefore there were some of their actions , especially in respect of some circumstances thereof , which ordinary pastors ( not so assisted ) may not doe ; as in this case when they baptized in private houses , in the wildernesse alone , and not in the face of a congregation , &c. and therefore if in some few cases some doe think they did not baptize into a particular church ; yet if their ordinary practice were otherwise , we ought to imitate the ordinary , not some extraordinary cases ; and thus the sinews and force of the consideration remains strong , notwithstanding this word of [ ordinary dispensation : ] and that this was our meaning , was not hard to discern , by the scriptures cited in the answer , to prove the seales are given unto the church in ordinary dispensation , amongst which , acts 2.41 , 42 , 47. containing the apostles first practice in this kinde are expressed ; and mr. ball took notice thereof , as appears by his own reference to the same afterwards , though in his printed reply those quotations bee wholly left out . 2 let us consider whether the apostles ordinarily did not baptize into particular churches ; and this may be proved from the stories of their ordinary practice : first , it will be easily granted that the apostles did gather disciples into particular visible churches , but there is no other time or season of doing it can be shewed in all the stories of their acts ; yea , sometimes they were so suddenly called away , or enforced away by persecution after they had converted disciples , that it is very improbable , if not impossible , they should do it at all , but when they converted and baptized them , as acts 16.40 . & 17.5 . &c. but to come more particularly unto the story it self , the apostles first , and exemplary practise being the best interpreter of their commission , and of their ordinary proceeding therein ; the first converts which the apostles baptized after the visible kingdom of christ was set up , were those in that famous place , acts 2.41 . concerning whom observe , first , that the apostle peter not onely preached unto them repentance and faith in the name of christ , with promise of remission of sins ▪ and that they should be baptized , but according to that commission , mat. 28. with many other words he exhorted them , saying , save your selves from this untoward generation , being the very scope of his exhortation ; and this implies a gathering of themselves to the fellowship of the saints ; and al this word they gladly received before they were baptized . 2 when the holy ghost , vers . 41. declareth their baptizing , he records withall their adding to them , the latter being an exegesis of the former , and that the same day , as being performed at the same time ; and indeed when a convert publickly professeth his faith in christ , is it not as easily done ▪ to re●…eive him to a particular visible church , as into the catholick before baptism ; but first to baptize them , and then the same day to add or joyn them to the church , is altogether unprobable . and that this adding was to a particular church , is sufficiently proved before . the next place you may note , is acts 5.14 . where the holy ghost omitting the baptizing of those beleevers , yet speaks of their adding to the lord , as if the one implyed the other ; and that their adding to the lord , was by their joyning to the church , is evident by the opposition between verse 13 & 14. of the rest durst no man joyn himself to them , but beleevers were the more added to the lord. 3 in the conversion of samaria , although so great a work is declared in so few words in one verse , act. 8.12 . yet the text puts a manifest distinction of philips doctrine between the things of the kingdom of god , and the name of jesus christ : which plainly enough sheweth , that they taught the observing of the order of the kingdom of christ , as well as the doctrine of the name of christ , the object of saving faith . and this they received by faith , and professed before they were baptized . now the first and most famous examples of the apostles perswading that so they practised , why should we doubt of their like practice in other examples when nothing is said that contradicteth the same ? as acts 10. in the baptizing of cornelius his house , where so many were met , and the holy ghost fell on all ; why should we think the apostle peter baptized them , and left them out of the order of christ , wherein they should worship him , and be edified in the faith ? if we doubt of it , because the scripture is silent therein , we may as well question whether those beleevers , acts 4.4 . & 9.35 . & vers . 42. whether any of these confessed their faith , or were baptized , for nothing is said thereof : so likewise acts 11. where we read of many beleeving , turning to the lord , vers . 21. of the adding others to the lord , vers . 24. but nothing of their confession of faith or baptism , and yet they are called a church ; whereby it appears that the holy ghost sometime expresseth their baptism without joyning to the church ; and sometimes joyning without baptism , and sometime he expresseth both , acts. 2.41 . and therefore hence we may conclude the like of the case of lydia and the jaylor ; considering the former practice of the apostles : and that the apostle speaks so expresly of a church at philippi in the beginning of the gospel , phil. 4. at which time we have no more conversions expressed but of those two families ; at least , they were the most eminent fruits of pauls ministery at that time ; and it is very probable the church was gathered in lydia's house , seeing paul going out of prison to her house , he is said to see the brethren , and comfort them , so departing , verse 40. besides , why might not the apostle baptize them into that particular visible church in such a case , as well as into the catholick , or all churches , as some say , they professing subjection to christ in every ordinance of his , with reference to that church he had there constituted ? the fulnesse of power in the apostles might doe greater matters without breach of order , though no rule for us so to do ; neither is it strange from the practice of those times to begin a church in a family , seeing the apostle speaks of churches in three severall families , rom. 16.5 . col. 4.15 . phil. 2. which though many understand to be called churches in regard of the godlinesse of those families ; yet if we consider ; first , how many eminent saints the apostle salutes , ( who no doubt had godly families ) not so much as naming their housholds ; much lesse giving them such a title , but onely to these three named . secondly , how distinct his salutations are , first the governors , and then the church in their house . thirdly , that the apostle doth not onely send his salutations to the church in the house of aquila and priscilla , rom. 16.5 . but also keeping the name of a church , he sends salutations from that church to the church of corinth , 1 cor. 16.19 . all which doe strongly argue there is more in it , then that they were godly families , and therefore may perswade us that there were indeed constituted churches in those families , though other christians also might joyn with them . reply . thus having cleared our meaning , and the consideration it self , there will remain very few extraordinary cases , ( if any ) of whom it can be proved , they were not joyned to some particular church when baptized ; as that of the eunuch , which as it was done by an extraordinary immediate call of philip so to doe ; so also there was a speciall reason thereof , the lord intending thereby , rather by him to send the gospel into ethiopia , then to retain him in any other place , to joyn with his church : and the baptism of paul , who as without the ministery of the word he was converted by the immediate voice of christ , so he was baptized by the immediate call of ananias so to do . now let us proceed to consider what further is replyed . answ . the seals baptism and the lords-supper are given to the church , not onely in ordinary , but also extraordinary dispensation : true baptism is not without the church , but in it , an ordinance given to it . the sacraments are the seales of the covenant to the faithfull , which is the form of the church tokens and pledges of our spirituall admittance into the lords family . hence it is inferred , that if the seales in extraordinary dispensation were given to the church , and yet to members of no particular church , then also in ordinary dispensation it may be so . 1 it will not follow ; for first , if the apostle in extraordinary cases baptized privately , will it follow that in ordinary dispensation it may be so ? secondly , if because the ministery be given to the church , and extraordinary officers were not limited to particular churches ; will it therefore follow that in ordinary dispensations , ministers ought not to be given onely to particular churches ? thirdly , as we have oft said , that seals belong de jure to all beleevers , as such , as members of the catholick church , ( they being given unto it firstly , as to its object and end ) and all that are truly baptized , are baptized into it , and thus never out of it , as being tokens of our spirituall admittance into the lords family both in ordinary and extraordinary dispensation ; but doth it hence follow that actuall fruition of the seales ( of which the question is stated ) may ordinarily be had or given to such as set loose from all societies ? the apostles had extraordinary power , being generall pastors over all persons beleeving as well as churches ; and therfore at some times by speciall guidance of the spirit they might doe that which ordinary pastors may not do . reply . secondly , as the seals , so the word of salvation preached and received , is a priviledge of the church , &c. if by preaching be meant the giving of the word unto a people , to abide and continue with them , and consequently the receiving of it at least in profession , then it is proper to the church of god. answ . we grant , ( in some sense ) it is a priviledge , and proper to the church so to have the word ; but this no way takes away the difference between the seals and the word , which the answer makes , viz. that the word is not such a peculiar priviledge of the church as the seals , in that the one is dispensed not onely to the church , but also to others for the gathering of them , which is not so in the seals , for the word of god received in corinth abiding with them , professed of them , was not so peculiar , but an idiot comming in might partake in the same , but not so in the sacraments , 1 cor. 14. reply . the word makes disciples , the word given unto a people is gods covenanting with them , and the peoples receiving this word , and professing their faith in god through jesus christ , is the taking of god to be their god , the laws and statutes which god gave unto israel , were a testimony that god hath separated them from all other people : the word of reconciliation is sent and given to the world reconciled in iesus christ , and they that receive the doctrine , law , or word of god , are the disciples , servants , and people of god. answ . in these words , and that which follows in the second paragraph , there seems to be a double scope : first , to prove the word proper to the church ; to which is answered afore . secondly , that where-ever the word of god is , there is the true visible church ; and so where the true worship of god is , there is a mark of the church , especially where it is received and confessed . to which we answer : 1 there is a coven●…nting between god and man , which is personall , and so whosoever receives the word of gods grace by faith sent unto him by god , enters into covenant to be his , and that before he makes any visible profession thereof , and so every beleever is a disciple , a servant of god , and one of gods people , but many thousands of these considered onely in this their personall relation to god , doe not make a visible church , many such might be in the world , but no members of the visible church , until they came and joyned to the church of israel of old , or to the visible churches in the new testament . 2 there is a sociall or common covenanting between god and a people , to be a god to them , and they a people unto god in outward visible profession of his worship ; and so the lord took abraham and his seed into covenant , and renewed that covenant with them , as an holy nation and peculiar people to him ; and in this covenanting of god with a people , whereby they become a church , there is required , first , that they be many , not one . secondly , that these many become one body , one people . thirdly , that they make visible profession of their covenant with god really , or vocally . fourthly , that this covenant contain a profession of subjection to the ordinances of gods worship , wherein god requires a church to walk together before him : and all these may be seen in the church of israel , who received gods laws indeed , but so as they became one people to god , visibly avouched god for their god , received and submitted unto all the laws of his worship , government , and other ordinances . and this is expresly or implicitly in every true visible church , though more or lesse fully and purely . now if you intend such a covenanting of a people with god , by a professed receiving of his word , and subjection to his ordinances ; we grant such to be true churches , and to such the seals do belong ; and therefore we willingly close with the conclusion that follows , they that have received the word of salvation entirely , and have pastors godly and faithfull to feed and guide them , they and their seed have right to the seals in order . and they that joyn together in the true worship of god , according to his will , with godly and faithfull pastors , they have right to the sacraments , according to divine institution . these conclusions we willingly embrace , and inferr , that if the seals belong to such a church , then to particular congregations . for where shall we finde a people joyning together with godly pastors , but in such particular assemblies ? for we doubt not our brethren doe disclaim all diocesan pastors or provinciall , &c. reply . that there is now no visible catholick church in your sense , will easily be granted , &c. if this be granted in our sense , so that there be no such catholick church wherein seals are to be dispensed ; then it will fall to be the right and priviledge of particular congregations , to have the seals in the administration proper to them ; and so the cause is yeelded ; but because there is so much here spoken of the catholick visible church , and so much urged from it , we shall refer the reader to what is said before , onely one thing we shall note about the instance of athanasius , that a man may be a member of the catholick visible church , but of no particular society . reply . you say it is evidenced , in that a christian ( as athanasius for an example ) may be cut off unjustly from the particular visible church , wher●…in he was born , and yet remains a member of the catholick visible orthodox church . answ . this case proves nothing ; for look how such a christian stands to the catholick , so he stands to the particular church : if he be unjustly censured , as he remains before god a member of the catholick , so also the particular church , for clavis errans non ligat : and in respect of men , and communion with other churches in the seals , if they receive him , being satisfied that he is unjustly cast out ; they may receive him , not for his generall interest in the catholick church , but in respect of his true membership in the particular church , that unjustly cast him out . whereas , if the churches were not perswaded but that he were justly cast out of the particular , they ought not to admit him to seales , were he as orthodox as athanasius himself in doctrine , and as holy in his life . reply . though there be no universall congregation , nor can be imagined , yet there are and have been many visible assemblies or societies , true churches of christ , to whom the prerogative of the seals is given , which have not been united and knit together into one congregation or society in church-order . for every society in covenant with god , is the true church of god. for what is it to be the flock , people , or sheep of god , but to be the church of god ? and where there is a covenant , there is the people of god , &c. answ . this assertion seems to us very strange to fall from that reverend and learned author , being a foundation of many inconveniences and absu●…dities , and tending to overthrow the order of christ in his visible churches . for , first , if this be so , that every society in covenant with god , be the church of god , then men may set up as many forms of visible churches as they please , ( if the people be in covenant with god visibly at least ) the archdeacon with his commissary , priests , churchwardens , &c. being in covenant with god , are a true church : so the diocesan bishop in his cathedrall with his clergy , or any such assembly , are the church of god ; or what other form-soever men will devise , may goe for the church of god , and to them belong the seals , and ( you may as wel say ) discipline , and all ordinances of god , if they bee the true church . secondly , upon this ground every company of godly christistians in covenant with god , meeting in fasting , prayer , &c. are the true church of god , and to them ( as such ) the seal●… belong , and sending for a true minister of the catholick church , they may have baptism and the lords-supper administred , and by the same reason discipline also : yea , if but two or three ( as you say ) being in covenant with god , meet together in their travail at an inne , &c. are the church of god , especially every christian family i●… the church ; for they professe the entire faith ▪ joyn ( daily ) in prayer and thanksgiving , receive the truth of god to dwell amongst them , are in some measure obedient unto the command●… of god , and in covenant with god : and therefore being the church of god , why not call for a minister , and have seals ordinarily dispensed to them ? thirdly , upon this ground a company of christian women in covenant with god are a church , to whom the seal ●… belong ; and who sees not , how all orderly dispensation of gods ordinances , and the whole order of visible churches in the gospel would be overturned by this assertion ? we verily beleeve this author was far from admitting these things , but the position it self will unavoidably enforce the same . neither can we impute this assertion to any inconsideratenesse through heat of disputation . for if any shall maintain the personall covenant of people with god to be sufficient to constitute visible churches , and not admit a necessity of a more publick or generall covenant explicite or implicite , whereby a company of christian●… are made one people , joyning in one congregation to worship god in his holy ordinances , and walk together in his way●… , they must of necessity acknowledge every society in covenant with god to be a church , as here is said ; and therefore admit all forms of churches , and all families , &c. to be churches , and so bring in the confution objected , which we desire may well bee considered . all your arguments stand upon that ground of personall covenant with god , which is too weak to bear up that conclusion , to make all such visible churches to whom the seals belong , as the absurd consequences thereof shew . these reasons , and the scriptures in the margent ( some of them ) will prove them fit matter for visible churches , and that they have a remote right unto the seals of that covenant , ( which we grant ) but they will not prove every society of such to bee true churches , having immediate right to have the seals dispensed unto them . reply . fifthly , if it be gra●…ted that the seals are the prerogative of particular visible churches , known and approved christians amongst us are members of such churches , and so to be esteemed amongst you , &c. and every visible beleever professing the pure entire faith , admitted to the right and lawfull participation of the sacraments , is a visible member of the true church , if he hath neither renounced the society , nor deserved justly to be cast out by excommunication , or church censure , &c. and if known and approved christians , members of our churches comming to new-england , shall desire to have their children baptized , or themselves admitted to the lords-supper , before they be set members amongst you ; we desire to know upon what grounds from god you can deny them , if you acknowledge our churches , ministery and sacraments to be true , ( as you professe ) and the members of the church be known and approved , orderly recommended unto you . answ . we grant all this here expressed for the substance , however some reasons spoken unto before intermixed we passe over , and to your question we frame a ready answer from your own words . for , first , you grant , that if such members have renounced that society wherein they did partake of the seals , they are not to be reputed members of it ; and this is generally the case of all approved christians among us , who though they doe not so renounce the churches that bare them , and gave them suck , as no true churches ; yet seeing they were grown so corrupt many ways , as they could neither enjoy some needfull ordinances , nor partake in those they had without sin , they have therefore renounced and forsaken all further communion with them , and membership in them ; and so by your own grant , neither themselves , nor the churches here can take them as members of your churches , to receive them under that respect . secondly , if any yet have not so far renounced those churches they belonged unto , yet they are not orderly recommended unto us , which also you grant ought to be , and indeed otherwise we may oft receive persons justly excommunicate , or such as are no members of churches any where , or otherwise under great offence , as frequent examples amongst our selves doe she●…e , though the church may think well of such as offer themselves . what else follows in this paragraph , is the same in substance , and much of it in words also , that we have answered before ; and therefore we passe it over ; and that of the jewish church we shall speak to after . as for that you desire leave to set down , and us to examine what may be objected against that we affirmed , that the distinct churches named in the new testament were congregationall societies ; we shall consider as followeth : reply . the number of beleevers were so great in some cities , that they could not conveniently meet in one place as one assembly to worship god according to his will , and for their edifying , as in samaria , jerusalem , antioch , ephesus . answ . although we expected not objections in this case against the currant tenent of our godly reformers , baine , parker , &c. with whom we joyn ; and we might refer you to them for answer to this beaten . objection of the prelates ; yet we are not unwilling to examine what is said in this digression . the argument stands thus : if the number of beleevers were so great in some city , as could not meet in one assembly to edification ; then there was some other form of a church besides congregationall ; but so it was in samaria , &c. answ . we deny the consequences , for when they grew to so great a number , they might fall into more congregationall churches , and so no other form arise from the multitude ; but we suppose you mean of such a multitude as is called a church ; and therefore to answer to your assumption , we deny that any such multitude of beleevers as is here called a church were so great as could not meet to edification : and first concerning samaria . reply . that there was a church gathered in samaria , will not be denyed , for they received the word , and were baptized ; but that the church in that city was onely a congregationall assembly , is more then can probably be concluded . answ . we grant a church or churches were gathered in samaria , and we accept your reason as good , because they received the word , and were baptized wh●…e ( by the way ) you grant what we pleaded for before , that the apostles gathered churches , when they baptized them : but that there was but one congregationall assembly , lyes not in 〈…〉 prove , untill you prove that all the beleevers were called a church , or one church , which doth not appear in the whole story , 〈…〉 nor any other where that we can finde ▪ and it is , very probable that as philip converted and baptized so great a multitude at severall times , and gathered them into the church or churches as he baptized them , so he might gather severall churches , as well as one , seeing that none doubt but that congregationall churches 〈◊〉 an ordinance of christ , what ever men contend for beside ▪ and therefore be the number of beleevers in samaria as great as you would have it , it proves nothing . reply . the church at jerusalem was one , and distinct , yet encreased to 3000 , then to 5000 , &c. answ . be it so , the increase was very great ; yet so long as they are called one distinct church , it was one congregation , viz. untill they scattering by the persecution about stephen , acts. 7.8 . which is evident by these two arguments . first , acts 2.41 , &c. where we see the 3000 added to the 120. they have their communion together described : 1 in regard of their spirituall communion , to be in the apostles doctrine , fellowship , breaking of bread and prayer , verse 42. secondly , in regard of their outward communion in the good things of this life ; they had all things common , and sold their possessions , &c. verse 44 , & 45 ▪ now the manner of both parts of this communion in respect of time and place is described , verse 46. viz. in their spirituall duties , they continued daily with one accord in the temple . and secondly , in respect of their outward communion in their states , they eat their meat from house to house ; this latter requiring many tables and many houses to provide for them ; so that although in their outward communion , it was in private houses , yet their spirituall communion it was with one accord in one place , viz. the temple , where they had room enough ; being the place erected for a nationall church ; and having favour with all the people , were not interrupted therein by any persecution . we need not step out of our way to reply to all that is said against this reason . it is enough for us to note , that they daily with one accord 〈◊〉 , and that in the temple , which is not ans●…ered by any 〈…〉 . 2 this appeareth , acts ●… . 1 , 5. where it is evident the election of deaco●● was before , and by the multitude , verse 1. by the whole multitude , verse 5. and this was the last church-meeting and church act we read of before their scattering ; neither can ●…t appear that the jews and ●…recians , whose widows murmured were two distinct congregations ; but the contrary is evident , in that the deacons were chosen al by the whole , and for the whole , not distinctly so many for this , and so many for that church , as it was needful if they were two churches . these proofe being so clear ▪ the inconveniences objected are of no force , and sufficiently answered by many examples of as great assemblies meeting ordinarily to edification ; as beside the auditory of chrysostome , cited by others ; the assemblies of stepney in london , yarmouth in norfolk , and others in our experience . beza , a man not loving to hyperbolize , saith , that being in paris , there met at a sermon * 24000. and of a synodall assembly that they received the lords supper no lesse then 10000. beza epist. 65. reply . without question the number of beleevers at antioch was not small , of which it is expresly said , that a great number beleeved , and that a great multitude were added to the lord by the preaching of barnabas , &c. and therefore we may think the church rose to such a●… bignesse as could not well assemble in one congregation , acts 11.21 . & 14.27 . answ . 1 in that place , acts 11.21 . the great number that beleeved , was the fruit of all the scattered christians at phenice , cyprus , and antioch ; for the hand of the lord was with them all , and their whole successe is summed up together , nothing said before of the other places . 2 though paul and barnabas taught much people , yet it proveth not that this much people were converted to the church . 3 though much people were added to the lord , yet doth it follow they were more then could meet in one congregation ? and if first disciples were there called christians , must it needs be for their number , and not rather for eminent likeness to christ , with other specialities of providence ? 4 it is expresly said , the church was gathered together , acts 14.27 . which is not meant of the elders onely , as if they onely could meet ; for chap. 15.30 . they gathered the multitude together ; so that it was no●… 〈…〉 but 〈…〉 to g●…ther in 〈◊〉 place . reply . the number of beleevers was great at ephesus , where paul preached two years ; all that dwelt 〈…〉 heard 〈…〉 and effectuall ways open 〈…〉 the 〈…〉 of di●…na her temple were in danger to be se●… a●…●…ought ; 〈◊〉 those 〈…〉 , burnt their books openly : which could not 〈…〉 great danger of the church , unlesse a great part of the city had 〈◊〉 , acts 19.10 , 19 , 27. answ . 1 be it so , that many were converted , and the word gr●…w mightily ; this proves not th●● all who heard paul , were of the church of ephesus , for then all 〈◊〉 should be of that church , ( acts 19.10 . ) who did hear the word 〈◊〉 jewe and gentiles ; as for the danger of the shrines , and diana's temple to be set at nought , a little spark might ●…indle such fears , and raise such out-cryes in the covetous craftsmen , by whom the whole city was see in a superstitious 〈◊〉 ; our own experience may teach , how soon a prophane people will cry our against a faithfull minister before he hath converted ten 〈◊〉 in a city . 2 that they could not burn their books openly without danger to the churches , except a great part of the city beleeved , seems a strange reason ▪ as if beleevers 〈◊〉 not professe openly , except they had a great number to maintain them with club-law : open profession in those times even amongst a few , was not wont to be daunted with the grim looks of persecution . 3 and lastly , we grant ephesus might be a numerous church ; yet neither there , no●… any thing that is said from rev. 2.7 . ( hear what the spirit 〈…〉 ) can perswade us that it was any more then one congregation ; for that argues no more , that ephesus was a compound of many churches , then that it was compounded with all the other six churches of asia ; yea , the churches of all the world ▪ for what the spirit speaketh to one church , is spoken for the use of all . reply . it is not essentiall to the church to 〈◊〉 together in one place ordinarily , no●… is the society broken off by persecution●… , when 〈…〉 together in one place be interrupted . answ . it is true ; one church or society by persecution or otherwise , may meet in severall companies ; neither doe we say , that place , or meeting in one place , is properly essentiall to the church , yet i●… to necessary both 〈…〉 , to ●…e able at least so to doe ▪ for though it be not necessary to 〈…〉 of the society thus to meet together , yet it is necessary to the communion thereof in all ordinances . it is not necessary to the unity of a classicall presbytery to meet ordinarily in one place , but unto the communion thereof it is necessary . when the papists to maintain their private masses , say , that place is but accidentall to the ordinance : and that christians are not bound to the circumstance of place ( as h●…rdin objects ) any more , then to observe dayes , moneth●… times , condemned as beggerly elements by the apostle , gal. 4. as also , that all the faithfull are united together by the sacraments though they meet not in the same place , as the ancients ●…o tell , how doth learned chamity answer them ▪ he tels them , that although this or that particular place is not necessary , yet a place indefinitely taken is ●… and that the sacrament is restrained to be administred in a place , because it cannot be administred but conventu fidelium ▪ and this conventus must be in some place : and he adds , that although all the faithfull have communion in the sacrament , though they meet not in one and the same place ; yet this ( he saith ) is to be understood of spirituall , not sacramentall communion ; nunquam ●…rim auditum , qui hierosolymis erant , sacramentaliter communicasse cum iis qui alexandrie : and therefore he thought communion in one place together necessary to church-communion , as wee doe . reply . seventhly , seeing then both the seals in ordinary and extraordinary dispensation , &c. answ . this , with that which follows , being but a recapitulation of the severall replies made , we shall leave it to the judicious , having well observed our answer , to embrace or reject the conclusion . chap. vii . consid . 2. the preposition is granted , that the dispensation of the sacraments both ordinary and extraordinary , is limited to the ministery ; but in that you alledge for confirmation some things may be noted : 1 the first institution of baptism is not contained in that passage , but confirmed , for the seals were instituted before his death , &c. answ . the proposition being granted , and the proof mat. 28.19 . being ( we doubt not ) pertinent in the authors own judgment , as well as ours ; brotherly love might easily have passed over greater mistakes then the answer seems to have fallen into : for , by first institution here , we meant no more , then that it is the ordinance of christ himself , instituted in that first time of all divine ordinances . we were not so ignorant to think there was no use , and so no institution of baptism before the death of christ ; and therefore this confutation might have been spared . reply . secondly , we see not how you can apply that text , matth. 28 19. to preaching by office ; which by your exposition is a dispensing of a fit portion to every one of the houshold ; and it is plain the apostles were sent to preach to every creature , &c. answ . as if that commission , matth. 28. did not authorize them also , and require them to dispense fit portions to the churches ▪ did not the care of all the churches lye on the apostle , 2 cor. 11.28 . so also 1 cor. 7.17 . were not apostles given to the church for the edifying of the body of christ , &c. as well as other officers ? ephes . 4.11 , 12. 1 cor. 12.28 . and therefore this note also might well have been spared . reply . thirdly , if under the power of the keys you comprehend preaching by office , dispensing seals , &c. we deny the power of the keys to belong to the church , or community of the faithfull , in those passages which speak of this power , the execution of this authority is given to them to whom the authority is committed . answ . this of the power of the keys , and the execution thereof , was onely in the answer touched by the way , to prevent the objection of some . 1 it is well known that it is no new opinion to hold , that the church is the first subject of the keys , and to alledge matth. 16. & 18. for the same , and therefore might as well have been set in the margent ; many ancient divines , and our own modern , as fulke , whittaker , baine , parker , and others , as robinson , if there were not a desire to possesse people with that conceit , that we goe in new ways with the separatists alone . 2 we distinguish between power and authority : there is a power , right , or priviledge , as joh. 1.12 . which is not authority properly so called ; the first is in the whole church , by which they have right to choose officers , acts 6. & 14. receiving members , &c. authority ( properly so called ) we ascribe onely to the officers under christ to rule and govern , whom the church must obey . now we grant that where authority is given , there power to exercise it is given also , as mat. 28. joh. 20. &c. it is given to the apostles and ministers ; and so where power is given to the church , there power to exercise the same orderly is given also , as mat. 18. 1 cor. 5. 2 cor. 2.10 . reply . if the power of the keys be given to the church , the apostles themselves must derive their authority immediately from the church , and not from christ ; for the power must be derived from them unto whom it was given , &c. answ . we deny your consequence , for the lord may give power to his church in all ordinary cases , and yet reserve to himself that prerogative to doe what he please immediately without the church , as is cleare , that in this case he hath , first calling his twelve apostles , mat. 10. before he instituted the church of the new testament , after he was pleased to use the ministery of the church , acts 1. to choose two , and take one of them immediately by a lot ; and when paul was called he appeared to him immediatly , and called him both to the faith , and to his apostleship , whereby it is clear that their call is a reserved case . reply . if ministers dispense the seals as the stewards of christ , from whom they receive their authority immediately ; then the power of the keys is not in the community of the faithfull ; if as the servants of the church , from which they derive their authority ; then the office of a minister is not the immediate gift of christ ; nor the minister so much the servant of christ , as of the church from whom he must receive lawes , in whose names he must doe his office , and to whom he must give account . answ . this objection will hold as strongly against any other subject of the keys that can bee named , ( as classes , synods , or church catholick ) and therefore by this manner of reasoning the lord jesus must doe all things immediately himself in choosing officers , &c. or else his ministers must receive laws , doe all in the name of such as he delegates to that work of administration under him , and therefore let others look to answer this objection as well as we : our answer is briefly & plainly this , the office is the immediate institution of christ , the gifts and power belonging thereto are from christ immediately , and therefore he ministers in his name , and must give account to him , 1 pet. 5. and yet his outward cal to this office , whereby he hath authority to administer the holy things of christ to the church , is from christ by his church , and this makes him no more the servant of the church , then a captain ( by the leave of the generall ) chosen by the band of souldiers is the servant of his band. wee see in this reply here and elsewhere how apt men are to cast this odium upon this doctrine , and to ranke us with separatists in it , but it is easily wiped off and stickes as fast upon the classes , synods , catholick church , or any other subject of this power . reply . if the communitie of the faithfull have to doe in all matters of the body , to admit members cast out , make and depose ministers , &c. by authority from christ , wee cannot see how in your judgement the execution of the power of the keys is concredited to the ministers . answ . if the power , priviledge and liberty of the people be rightly distinguished from the authority of the officers as it ought , a dim sight may easily perceive how the execution of the keys by the officers authoritatively may stand with the liberties of the people in their place obedientially following and concurring with their guides , so long as they goe along with christ their king and his lawes , and cleaving in their obedience to christ dissenting from their guides , when they forsake christ in their ministrations ; if there need an ocular demonstration hereof , it is at hand in all civill administrations wherein the execution of laws and of justice in the hands of the judges and the priviledge power or liberty of the people in the hands of the jurours . both sweetly concurre in every case both civill & criminall ; neither is the use of a jury onely to finde the fact done , or not done , ( as some answer this instance ) but also the nature and degree of the fact in reference to the law that awards answerable punishments ; as whether the fact be simple theft , or burglary , murder or manslaughter , &c. and so in cases of dammages , costs in civill cases ; whereby it appeares , that although the power and priviledge of the people be great , yet the execution authoritatively may bee wholly in the officers . reply . fourthly , that which you adde , that god will not vouchsafe his presence and blessing to an ordinance but when it is dispensed by those whom hee hath appointed thereunto , must be warily understood , or it may occasion errors and distractions not a few , &c. answ . wee shall not contradict your warinesse in this case , for wee acknowledge a presence of god with his ordinances administred by such as hee appoints , though some corruptions bee admixed , in the entrance and administrations ; but wee doubt not the presence and blessing of god is more or lesse according to the purity or corruptions of the administration and participation of his ordinances : but what need there was , or use of this note wee see not , our words were sound , and safe enough , but it seemes your tendernesse of the standings of ministers and ordinances in england occasioned this warinesse , and wee deny not what you say , that gods presence , and blessing upon his ordinances dispensed by us gave some approbation to our standing and to his ordinances , the lord mercifully passing over our many corruptions : but this will no way give allowance to the many grosse corruptions , and defects which cleaved to our standings , and administrations , nor to the continuance of any in such corruptions after the discovery thereof . reply . secondly , as for the assumption , that pastors and teachers are limited to a particular church or society , but that flock-is not ever one congregationall assembly meeting in one place , neither the bond so straight , whereby they are tyed to that one society that they may not upon occasion performe some ministeriall act of office in another congregation , or to them that bee not set members of their proper assembly . answ . for clearing of the the assumption , that wee may give the more distinct answer , wee shall take leave to explicate our selves concerning the limitation of the ministery to the church , which it is like they who drew up the answer had formerly done , had the times then been as criticall as they are growne since . 1 when we say the ministery is limited to a particular church , wee doe not so limit it to a congregation under her owne presbytery , as to exclude from communion in the seales , many congregations standing under one common presbytery , as wee have formerly said , we honour the reformed churches of christ jesus , and the godly members thereof . 2 when wee say the seales are limited to a particular church or congregation because the ministery is so limited ; our meaning is not of that congregation onely whereof the ministry is , but of any congregation in generall . 3 when wee say that where a minister hath no power , he may not do an act of power , this is to be so understood , that hee cannot performe such an act , as an officer over them or unto them as to his proper flock , the office being ( as wee said ) founded in the relation betweene the church and the officer , such a stated power as an officer over his owne flocke , hee hath not to those of other congregations partaking in his owne church , or in any act of his office in another church ; yet an occasionall act of power , or precaria potest●…s , charitatively to put forth an act of his office to those in an other church , over whom he is no officer , wee see not but he may ; but then this act of power is not towards them as over his owne flocke ; for two things are cleare to us . 1. that an officer of one church , is no officer over those of an other church , as not being his proper flocke , for there being no office of pastour at large without power of office , and the power that a pastour hath over others , being by the election of those that chose him their officer , who thereby become his proper flocke , hence he hath no power as an officer over those of an other flock , unlesse he should 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . that such an officer may put forth acts of his office towards those that are not of his proper flock . e. g. a minister ex officio , & as a pastor , not barely as a gifted man only may preach for the gathering in of those that are out of the church , as well as for the edificaon of those that are within , ephe. 4.11 , 12. and yet these are not his proper flock ; it is the office of every pastour to preach the gospel , the meanes of converting , and therefore not onely to intend but to attend the conversion of men , ( especially in preaching to his owne congregation ) for christ hath sheep , ( which are his flock ) to bee gathered into his fold , which are not the ministers proper flock , and the pastour is the minister of christ , as well as the pastour of his owne flock , and therefore he is to intend their gathering in as well as the good of his owne flock . againe , as he hath the keys of office by preaching the gospel , to open the kingdome of heaven to beleevers , so also he may ex officio , shut it against impenitent sinners and unbeleevers that reject his doctrine , matth. 16.19 . matth. 10.14 . jer. 1.10 . and yet these are not of his proper flocke . againe , a pastour may administer the seales , ( which is an act of office ) to members of other churches , in his his owne congregation , ( if they desire it ) who yet are not his proper flocke . lastly , a deacon of one church may performe an act of his office occasionally to those out of the church , or the poore of another church ; yet be no officer or deacon of the other church , and so 't is here . to illustrate this , a captaine of a band of souldiers is an officer onely over his owne band , but it 's an act of his office to subdue enemies , and to bring in those that submit . a steward is an officer over his masters family , not over others : yet it 's an act of his office to provide for the intertainment of strangers that come to his lords table . thus far it is cleare : but now whether a minister may administer the seales in another congregation , is not so evident , yet wee will not deny but that occasionally being called thereunto by the desire of the church , hee may lawfully doe the same , yet it 's no foundation of a stated presbytery out of a particular congregation , for in all such acts the church still keepes her power in her owne hands , while the minister hath no authority , nor can put forth any act of his ministery , but at her desire , and according to her owne necessity , neither doth this make a minister a pastour of the universall church , for pastorall office consists in taking charge of a people , and having power of authority to exercise the same towards his church : but all that is said doth include neither of these , nor doth it follow that because they may set up a presbytery over themselves in the same church , that therefore they may combine & set up a presbytery of many churches , the first being their duty injoyned by christ , not the other ; for it is necessary for them to have such amongst them as may ordinarily feed , teach , watch over them , and rule them ( the end of a ministers office ) but it 's not necessary so to submit to others , who may finde worke enough to feed and rule their owne , and therefore looke as it is not in the power of many congregations to joyne together , to set one pastour over them successively to feed them , ( for so they make a pluralist , and the bramble the king of trees ) nor yet in their power to set up ( as in the first ambitious time ) a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 with power over all singly , but under all joyntly , so neither is it in their power to set up many pastours , who by their plurality of votes may wholly drowne that power of their owne . nor lastly doth it follow , that if they may desire the benefit and exercise of an others office occasionally , that they may or should doe it constantly , no more then because they may desire sundry ministers to preach amongst them every sabbath for a time in the want of officers , that therefore they should content themselves to live altogether without any of their owne . now for application of these things to the assumption of our argument . although a pastour ( in the sense explained ) may put forth acts of office in another congregation , or to others in his owne congregation , yet will it hence follow , that a minister may administer seales to such as are of no congregation ? which is now the question . reply . now to remove those 2013 objections of mr. ball , which onely reach the question in hand , whereof the first is reply the 8. when ordinary elders in the primitive church were to labour the comming of the infidels to god , these being converted were to bee baptized of the elders ordinarily in the cities , though the number might bee so great in they could not well meet in one congregation , nor bee subject to the same pastour : and therefore either the pastours must baptize them , being no members , or they must remaine without baptisme till they grow into a body , and choose ministers to baptize them , which is contrary to all precedents in scripture . answ . there is a third way which is passed over , that will ease the difficulty : viz. the pastours might baptize them unto their owne congregations so long as the numbers did not exceed beyond edification , and then dividing their numbers , might make divers churches of one , and they call pastours over them , and so wee see act. 2. they added 3000. and after more , till they were scattered : and when peace was restored , act. 9. the churches were not onely edified but multiplied , verse 3. and so the consequence of your 9. reply is also taken away . reply . there is no precept or example in scripture warrants the admitting of set members of one congregation to the seales in another , more then the admitting of approved christians that are not set members , the pastour is no more the pastour of the one then of the other , neither of them set members , and both of them may bee members for the time being . answ . wee have before shewed in the first consideration , that which warrants the dispensing of the seales to confederating beleevers , as the way of the gospel , and rom. 16.1 . wee have a plaine example of orderly receiving the members of one church to communion in an other , being recommended thereunto by the apostles , wee have not the like for any not in church order at all ; and though there be a parity in respect of particular relation with that pastour and flock , yet that is a disparity in regard of immediate right that the one have to the ordinances of christ and priviledges of a church , which the other have not , being out of that order of christ prescribed in the gospel , in which order of a visible church , visible ordinances are to be dispensed , as hath been proved before . reply . if a synod consisting of sundry members of particular churches , met together in the name of christ about the common and publike affaires of the churches shall joine together in prayer , and communion of the supper , we can see no ground to question it as unlawfull , although that assembly bee no particular congregation or church , hath no pastour over them , &c. answ . that such an assembly may pray together is no question , for every family may doe so : and that they may receive the supper also in a right order , wee deny not , for meeting where there is a particular instituted church , they may have communion therewith in the supper , being many as well as few , but whether they may as a church ( being no politicall body , but members of many politicall churches ) administer church ordinances proper to a church , wee would see some reasons before wee can judge it lawfull so to doe : for though some doe account such a synod ecclesia orta ; yet not properly such a church as hath ecclesiasticall power , authority and priviledge belonging thereto : they may consult and doctrinally determine of cases of that assembly , acts 15. but further to proceed , we see no rule , nor paterne . besides , if such an assembly of many churches may administer seales , why may not any other assembly of church members or ministers doe the same ? and so this power will be carried without limitation , we know not how far , if they once depart from a particular church . chap. viii . consid . 3. reply . to the third consideration , this whole reason as it is propounded makes onely against it selfe ; who ever thought that the seales were not proper to confederates , or the church of god ; of old visible beleevers in the covenant of grace were of the visible church , and in church order according to the dispensation of those times , though not joyned to the society of abrahams family : to exclude job , melchisedeck , &c. because not of the visible church , is welnigh a contradiction , and so to debarre known approved christians , &c. answ . that this reason makes not against it self , mr. ball himself hath cleared , when he stated our consideration truely in the words following , as will appeare , however here he somewhat troubles the waters needlessely , that the ground may not appeare , for there is nothing in our answer which deny melchisedech , job , &c. to bee of the visible church according to the manner of those times , indeed wee instance in them as persons under the covenant of grace , not mentioning their membership in family churches , as being enough for our purpose , if they had not right to circumcision by vertue of their right in the covenant of grace , except they joyned to the church at first in abrahams family , and so after to the same church in israel ; and the more speciall church relation in abrahams family was required to circumcision , the stronger is the force of our reason , not the weaker . for so much the rather it followes , that seales are not to bee dispensed to beleevers ( as such ) though visibly professing the faith , except they joyne also to such a forme of the visible church , to , or in which the seales are instituted and given . reply . the true and proper meaning of this consideration is , that as circumcision , and the passeover were not to bee dispensed to all visible beleevers under the covenant of grace , but onely to such as were joyned to abrahams family , or the people of the god of abraham , no more may baptisme , and the lords supper be administred now to any beleevers , unlesse they be joyned to some particular congregation . answ . these words rightly stating the consideration wee leave it to any indifferent reader to judge , whether any way it make against it selfe , or whether there was any cause first to darken it as was done in the former passage . reply . the strength of it stands in the parity betweene circumcision and baptisme , but this parity is not found in every thing , as your selves alledge . to unfold it more fully , wee will consider three things . first , wherein the sacraments agree , and wherein they differ . answ . it matters not in how many things the sacraments differ , so they agree in the thing questioned , and though wee might raise disputes and queries about some particulars in this large discourse upon this first head , yet seeing here is a grant of the parity in the point now questioned , viz. concerning the persons to whom circumcision and baptisme doe belong , wee shall take what is granted , and leave the rest . for thus it is said , circumcision and baptisme are both sacraments of divine institution , and so they agree in substance of the things signified , the persons to whom they are to be administred , and the order of administration , if the right proportion be observed ▪ now that we hold the right proportion in the persons , may appear●… , first , in that ( as was granted ) circumcision sealed the entrance into the covenant , but this covenant was not simply , and onely the covenant of grace ; but that whole covenant , that was made with abraham , whereby on gods part they were assured of many speciall blessings , ( whereof lot , and others not in this covenant with abraham , were not capable ) and whereby abraham his seed , and family were bound for their part to be a people to god , and to observe this signe of the covenant , which others in the covenant of grace were not bound to . answ . secondly , ( as is granted ) it was abraham , and his houshold , and the seed of beleeving jewes that were the persons to bee circumcised , and therefore not visible beleevers , ( as such ) for then lot had been included : so by right proportion not all visible beleevers as such , but such as with abraham , and his family are in visible covenant to bee the people of god according to the institution of churches when , and to which the seale of baptisme is given ; and therefore as all family churches but abrahams being in a new forme of a church were excluded , so much more such as are in no visible constituted church at all . reply . secondly , as for the proposition it selfe , certaine it is , circumcision and the passeover were to bee administred onely to the visible members of the church , i. e. to men in covenant professing the true faith , but that in abrahams time none were members of the visible church , which joyned not to abrahams family , wee have not learned . answ . the proposition wee see is granted , yet it is obscured divers wayes , to which wee answer : first , whereas it is said these members of the church were men in covenant , professing the true faith . true , but where ? not in any place , but in the church of abrahams family , and so after in the church of israel . secondly , what faith ? not onely faith in the messiah for life , and salvation , but withall faith in the promises made to abraham , and his seed with subjection to the visible worship of god in that church , and to circumcision in particular . thirdly , that there were no others of the visible church besides abrahams family , is not said , but being so it strengthens the argument , as was shewed before . reply . in the first institution of circumcision god gave it to abraham , as the seale of the covenant formerly made with him , but of any church covenant , whereinto abrahams family should enter , we read not . answ . whether circumcision sealed any new covenant made with abraham , gen. 17. or that before , gen. 15. wee will not contend , neither is it materiall , bee it the same covenant hee entred into before for substance , yet it is evident , 1 that this covenant was not simply and onely the covenant of grace , but had many peculiar blessings belonging to abraham , and his posterity , and family contained in it . gen. 12. and 15. 2 it is very considerable that god made this covenant with abraham , when hee cal'd him out of that corrupt state of the church in ebers family to worship god more purely according to his institutions , gen. 12.1 . with josh . 24.2 . thirdly , this covenant , gen. 17. is more explicate , and full then before , and especially in that promise , which most properly concernes church covenant , viz. that god would take abraham and his seed into covenant with himselfe , euen an everlasting covenant to be a god unto them , vers . 7. and this in a speciall manner is that , which the lord saith hee would now establish betweene abraham and himselfe , viz. by this signe of the covenant , vers . 9 , 10 , 11. fourthly , this is the very covenant , which the lord renewed with abrahams seed afterward , when hee established them to bee a church or people to himselfe , as is evident , deut. 29.12 , 13. this the lord is said oft to remember , viz. to remember his covenant with abraham , when hee visited his seed with any mercy : exod. 6.5 , 6 , 7 , 8. psal . 105.8 , 9. and therefore it must needs bee a church covenant . fiftly , as gen. 17. the lord instituted a visible token , and seale of this covenant , so hee strictly enjoyned the observation of the same in all the seed and family of abraham , and that in all their generations : all which things especially joyntly considered make it evident , that abraham and his were not onely a people , but established a people to god in a church covenant , and that the same covenant , which was the foundation of the nationall church of god , that was after in his posterity , and to this covenant the seale of circumcision was added . reply . melchisedeck , lot , job might bee circumcised , though wee reade not of it , ( as wee read not that john baptist , or the apostles were baptized ) or if they were not circumcised , it may bee that institution was not knowne to them , or they were not required to joyne to abrahams family , and if they had , they should have transgressed , and so the reason was not , because they were not in church order , but because circumcision was appropriated to abrahams family in some peculiar respects . answ . though wee reade not of the administration of baptisme to john baptist , the apostles , and many others , yet wee reade of a rule that required it of them , and it was a part of that righteousnesse , of which the lord jesus saith to john , thus it becommeth us to fulfill all righteousnesse , matth. 3.15 . not for the institution of circumcision did bind lot , job , &c. yet that they were forbidden to joyne to abrahams family , and so bee circumcised , wee cannot say ; seeing afterwards proselytes were reecived into the same covenant and church , and so circumcised . secondly , that it was so appropriated to abrahams family , as that it was unlawfull for them to joyne to abrahams covenant , and be circumcised , this is more then can bee shewed ; or if lot , melchisedeck , job were excluded , yet out of question abraham might and did enlarge his family , and so might take in proselytes visible beleevers in the covenant of grace , and circumcise them , and so still the appropriating of circumcision to the church , and covenant of abrahams family , doth not weaken , but strengthen the argument , in as much as no visible beleever in the covenant of grace might partake of the seale but by joyning in visible covenant with that church to which it was given . thirdly , suppose job , lot ▪ &c. and their families were circumcised , ( as junius alledgeth jerome for it ) yet how will it appeare it was not by taking hold of the covenant of abraham , to which circumcision was applyed ? yet it seemes more probable , that lot , and other families in abrahams time were not partakers thereof , god intending ( as the effect shewes ) not to establish them nor theirs to bee his people , as by circumcision hee established abraham and his seed ; as for iob , if hee were of abrahams seed , and had circumcision hereditarily à materno , paternoque sanguine , ( as some thinke ) yet this makes nothing against the argument wee have now in hand . answ . after the church of the iewes was constituted ( when wee cannot imagine any church amongst the gentiles ) wee finde none must bee admitted to the passeover that was not circumcised , but nothing was required of a stranger , but that hee professe the true faith , and avouch the god of abraham to be his god , which must be done before hee could be reputed a visible beleever , or under the covenant of grace . reply . if any doubtfulnesse can bee raised about the church in abrahams family , yet the case is so cleare in the following story of the church , as you must needs grant the proposition , ( as you do ) and the church of the jewes is still but the same church , that was in abrahams house , and the covenant the same , for gen. 17. god established the covenant with him and his seed for an everlasting covenant to be a god unto them ; and in egypt the lord challenges them as his owne , his first borne , &c. and therefore there is the same reason of circumcision , first and last in respect of the persons , that had right unto it , but say you nothing was required to circumcision , but to professe the faith . but we demand first , what was it to a vouch the god of abraham to be his god ? was it not to subject himselfe to all the statutes , commandements , and judgements of god in his church to walke in them ? as is cleare : deut. 26.17 . was there not the same law for the stranger , and the home-borne ? secondly , where must they professe this faith , and avouch this god ? was it in any place where they dwelt , and so might they circumcise themselves ? must not this bee done amongst , and before the people of god in his visible church ? whence such were called proselytes , and reckoned of the common-wealth of israel , esay 56.3 , 4 , 5 , 6. and is not all this to joyne themselves to the visible instituted church before they were circumcised ? lastly , it is not true that no man could be reputed a visible beleever before hee did all this . that which followes pag. 40. is answered before . reply . if lot , job , &c. were not circumcised , there is not the like reason for circumcision , and baptisme in this particular . answ . the force of the consideration doth not depend upon the likenesse of reason betweene the persons to be circumcised and baptized in every respect , but in this , that as circumcision and the passeover were given onely to visible members of that instituted visible church , and therefore so in this case of baptisme , and the lords supper : now therefore if you could alledge many more different reasons betweene lot , job , &c. that were not circumcised , and those not to bee baptized , it would little availe in the case , but wee shall consider your differences particularly . reply . first , if ever circumcision was appropriated to abrahams family , and might not be communicated to other visible beleevers , it was in the first institution , but in the first institution of baptisme , it was not so observed , that beleevers should bee gathered into a christian church , and then baptized . mat. 3.7 . john baptized such as came to him , confessing their sinnes , the apostles baptized disciples , such as gladly received their doctrine , &c. answ . there is no such disparity in this as is objected , for abrahams family was in covenant before circumcision was given , onely the covenant was more fully explained and confirmed : and so when john baptized , hee baptized the members of the jewes church in covenant before , to whom hee was sent to turne the heart of the fathers to the children , &c. and to prepare a people for the lord , and baptisme was then given to the church of the jewes with reference to so many as would receive the doctrine of john , concerning repentance and remission of sinnes by faith in the messiah now come amongst them , and therefore christ himselfe , and his disciples remained yet members of that church . secondly , though the visible kingdome of christ was not yet to bee erected in christian churches , till after christs death and resurrection , whereby hee did put an end to the jewish worship , and therefore no christian churches could bee gathered by john , yet there was a middle state of a people prepared for the lord , gathered out of the jewish church , which according to that state were made the disciples of john , by solemne profession of their repentance or conversion to god , and acknowledgement of christ the lambe of god already come , to whom the seale of baptisme was appropriated . as for the instances , act. 2.37 . &c. and 8.37 . and 10.47 , 48. they are spoken to before in the first consideration . reply . secondly , lot , job , &c. were not bound to joyne to abrahams family , and bee circumcised , but now all visible beleevers are bound to seeke baptisme in an holy manner . answ . first , this difference makes little to the point in hand , it is enough , that all that would be circumcised were bound to joyne to that church , and so now . secondly , in after times no doubt every true proselyte fearing god was bound to joyne to that church , as well as now ; and if now all visible beleevers be bound to professe their faith , and seek baptisme in an holy manner , why should they not bee bound to joyne to some visible church , and seeke it there , ( as well as of old ? ) yea where should they professe their faith , but in the visible churches , as the proselytes of old did ? your third difference is oft pressed , and answered before . reply . fourthly , if circumcision bee appropriated to the family of abraham , it is because that covenant was peculiar to abrahams posterity , namely , that christ should come of isaac , but baptisme is the seale of the covenant of grace without peculiarity or respect . answ . this difference is of little moment , neither will it hold , for first , though that , and other promises had a speciall eye to abrahams family , yet circumcision sealed the righteousnesse of faith , rom. 4. to them being in visible covenant with the church , as baptisme now doth . secondly , this peculiar respect you speake of , no way hindereth the joyning of many servants to abrahams family , and covenant , nor any proselytes to the church afterward of any nation , no more then now in respect of baptisme . thirdly , the true reason was , because although the covenant was made with others , yet not established , nor enlarged towards them ; and hence if they would partake of such a covenant , they must joyne in this ; which also is the glory of the rich grace of christ shining forth in church-covenant with all that will become a people to him to this day . the first difference is answered in the first and second . chap. ix . consid . 4. reply . to the fourth consideration , first , men are capable of church censures , either as having power to dispense them : or as being subject unto them , &c. in the second sense , many are capable of church priviledges , who are not subject to church censures : as the children of christian parents are capable of baptisme , and approved members of any true church are capable of seales in other congregations amongst you , who are not subject to the censures of the other congregation , spiritual communion in publike prayer , whereof visible beleivers ( not in church order ) are capable , but not subject to common censures in your sense . answ . this distinction is needlesse : our meaning is plaine in the second sense , and therefore wee say nothing to what is objected against the first . to the instances objected against the proposition in the second sense , wee answer first concerning the infants of church-members , they are subject to censures , whensoever they offend the church , as others are , though so long as they live innocently , they need them not . secondly , members of any true visible church are subject , and so capable of censure , ( though not in another church ) which is not in in the proposition . 2. also they are capable of censures mediately by and in that other church , if they there offend : for that church may admonish and prosecute the admonition in the church to which they belong , and refuse society with them , if they repent not , which cannot bee said of such as are not members of any visible church , who cannot be prosecuted to excommunication in any place . thirdly , publike prayers of the church , though they bee an ordinance of christ , and the church have a speciall communion in them , in which respect others do not share , yet they are not a priviledge or peculiar ordinance , wherein none but the church may share , for an heathen or infidel may hear the word and joyne in the prayers , being cultus naturalis , saying amen unto the same ; which cannot be said of seales and censures , being cultus institutus . reply . secondly , a person baptized , is not baptized into that particular congregation onely , but into all churches , and in every particular church hath all the priviledges of the baptized person , and so to be esteemed of them . now the privil●…dge of the baptized person , walking in the truth , and able to examine himselfe , is to bee admitted to the lords supper , as all circumcised persons had right thereby to eate the passeover in any society , where god should choose to put his name there , exod. 4.47 . deut. 16.1 , 1. answ . this seemeth to touch the question it selfe , rather then the proposition of this fourth consideration : but wee shall answer to it as it stands . 1. here you grant that a person baptized , is baptized unto a particular congregation : which wee accept as a yeelding of the question unawares . 2. if you meane , that such hath a liberty of communion in a way of brotherly love in all churches where he comes , wee grant , ( so farre as nothing in him justly hinder ) but if you meane that hee is baptized into all churches , so as to challenge a right of membership in them all , wee deny it , as a position that would take away all distinction of churches , as wee have formerly shewed . 3. we deny that the lords supper is the priviledge of a baptized person , able to examine himself , & walking in the truth as a baptized person , for then a papist converted to the truth , able to examine himselfe , hath a right to the lords supper in every church , before he make any profession of his conversion , and faith in any particular church , for hee may bee such a baptized person . and we may say the like of an excommunicate penitent . 4. we grant that a baptized person is not onely baptized in to that particular church whereof hee was first a member : for if it bee a seale of his initiation into that particular church onely , then he must bee rebaptized as oft as hee enters into another , but hee is baptized ( in the sense formerly shewed ) into the whole mysticall body of christ , and hence hath jus ad rem , or a remote right unto the priviledges of the church every where , but that therefore he hath immediate right to the fruition of all , when he is severed from that particular church wherein he was baptized , that follows not : for as he had this latter right in the first church wherein hee was baptized , so he must have it in any of the churches of christ afterward ; now if in the first church the fruition of ordinances came by orderly joyning to it : so it must be afterward , for as wee said before , such as the communion is , such ought to be the union , he that would have politicall communion with the politicall churches of christ , must be some where in politicall union with them , otherwise one may have communion in all churches & yet never unite himself to any one , which loose walking we are perswaded christ jesus will not allow . 5 the similitude from a circumcised person will not hold . first , because there is no parity between severall families in the same church , and severall churches in the new testament , but rather severall seats of communicants in the same church answers , severall ●…amilies eating the passeover in the church of the jewes . secondly ▪ an edomite circumcised though he were converted , and acknowledged the true god in his owne country never so fully , yet might not eate the passeover till he joyned to the church of israel as all other proselytes did : & so is it here . reply . thirdly , there is not the same reason of every church priviledge ; one may have right to some who may not meddle with others , as members of one church may joyne in hearing and prayer with another church : but not medale in election and ordination of their teachers , and therefore the pr●…position is not so evid●…nt to bee taken without proofe , that they have no power to admit a beleever into communion in any church priviledge , who have no power to excommunicate . answ . what is here objected from the liberty or restriction of church members in another congregation , is answered before in the first objection , and therefore the proposition may stand good for all that is here said . 2 that which is set down as the proposition , is neither the same with that in our reason , nor any way allowed by us ; for wee speake not here of power to admit , but of the right to bee partakers : neither doe wee deny a power in officers to admit members of other churches to the seales , though they have no power to excommunicate them . 3 if our proposition seeme to need proofe : the reason of it is at hand , because those that are the peculiar priviledges or proper priviledges or proprieties of the church , as seales and censures being of the same nature , viz. outward ordinances of christ ordained by him for the edification of his church and joyntly given to his church : and therefore looke to what church hee hath given the one , hee hath given the other also : if the one , viz. censures , bee given to the church of a visible congregation , then the other : they are all ( both seales and censures ) contained in the keys which are given to the visible instituted churches of the new testament : not to the catholick ( as such : ) for a godly man justly cast out of the particular church , yet cannot bee cast out of the catholick . reply . that visible beleevers baptized into a true church , professing the true faith , and walking in holy obedience , and their seed should be judged such as are without in the apostles sense , because they are not externally joyned as set members to some peculiar congregation in church covenant , is affirmed , not proved . answ . comming to the assumption of our argument it is expressed ( according to the frequent manner in this reply ) in such termes as it is not affirmed by us , and the●●●ore if it want proof , blame not us : our assumption is ; such as are not in church covenant are not capable of church censures : where by being in church covenant wee meane either implicitly or explicitly , membership in any true church , as in our answer wee expresse to prevent mistakes : and this is proved from 1 cor. 5.12 . and in applying hereof wee doe not affirme that such are simply without in the apostles sense , but in some respect onely , viz. in regard of visible church communion . reply . first , it doth oft fall out that the true members of the catholick church and best members of the orthodox church , by a prevailing faction in the church , may bee no members of any distinct society , and shall their posterity be counted aliens from the covenant , and debarred from the sacraments , because their parents are unjustly separated from the inheritance of the lord ? answ . this objection is before answered in the first consideration , where was given the instance of athanasius , and it is answered by the reply it selfe in the next words ▪ surely as parents unjustly excommunicated , doe continue still visible members of the flock of christ ( understand that particular church out of which they are cast , ) so the right of baptism belongs to their infants : which being so , they are not without that church , though debarred unjustly of the present communion with it , unlesse he renounce that church , or other . reply . secondly , if such churches renounce it as are no members of a politick spirituall fellowship be without , then the m●…mbers of one church are without unto another , &c. answ . this objection wee have had and answered oft before ▪ in a word , there cannot bee the like reason , no not in respect of that other church , who may in a due order of christ persecute the censures against them , though not compleatly amongst themselves ▪ which cannot be●… said of such as have not joyned themselves to any church ▪ and therefore wee deny t●…at the apostles reason was because they were without to corinth ▪ but without to all churches . reply . thirdly , ( the fornicators of this world ) doe they not explaine whom the apostle pointeth unto by the title of being without verse the 10.11 . such as had not received the covenant of grace ? answ . wee n●…ver thought otherwise but that the fornicators of this world and the heathen are most properly without in the apostles sense ; but if our words bee observed , that in a certaine respect , or as our words are , in regard of visible church communion , such as are in no church society are said to bee without , what great offence have wee given ? for first , is not a godly man ( if justly e●…communicate ) without in this sense . secondly , doth not the apostle iohn expresly call them without that forsooke the fellowship of the church , 1 iohn 2.19 . saying they w●…nt out ? thirdly , were not the catechum●…ni of old in this respect without , and the lapsed in times of persecution , and the like●… who ( in those zealous and severe times of church discipline ) were not onely said to bee without , but stood without , though weeping and praying as penitents at the church doores , sometimes for two or three yeeres ? and after this degree of preparation for entrance into the church which they called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ▪ there were three more before they were received to the lords supper : which severity though wee approve not , yet it may mollifie the mindes of the godly learned that are apt to bee offended at such a word from us . fourthly , our saviour himselfe expresly saith ( and that not onely of those of no church ) but such as were even of the visible church , and his ordinary hearers , that many of them were 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or men without ▪ and therefore this application of 1 cor. 5.12 . need not bee called insolent , or raise such an hubbub abroad , as wee perceive it doth . reply . fourthly , church order is necessary wee deny not , but that a man should bee a constant set member of a particular society by covenant to make him a member of the visible church , or to give him title or interest to the publike order , this is not taught of god. this is but a bare denyall of the position it selfe , but what is meant by publike order wee know not : or where the order of christ ( which is granted to bee necessary ) can bee found but in particular churches , wee are yet to learne , neither is it anywhere taught in this reply , and wee would gladly learne how that church should orderly deale with such a man in case of offence that is of no particular church . reply . fiftly , paul divides all men into two rankes , the first and greater without , the last and lesser within , but that believers , &c. and their children should be reckoned without , we read not in any scripture , but in scripture phrase hereticks themselves are within . 1 john 2.19 . 1 cor. 11.19 . answ . all that is said in this objection except the last clause , is but a repeated deniall of the conclusion in other words : to the objection about hereticks within , wee grant they are within till cast out or gone out of the church , 1 john 2.19 . and if gone out , how are they within ? and so if an orthodox professor will frowardly forsake all churches and live alone , or among the heathen , how is hee within ? we speake onely in generall . reply . sixtly , this hath not beene beleeved in the church ? answ . wee are not bound in every thing to be of the churches faith , and what wee have said before may satisfie here . reply . seventhly , without are dogs , &c. rev. 22.15 . not such as are faithfull , holy , &c. answ . true , properly such are without , not these , yet in some respects ( as hath been said ) others also may be without , as such as forsake the church , &c. as was before said more fully . reply . eighthly , they that are without in the apostles sense are aliens from the commonwealth of israel , strangers from the covenant of promise , having no hope , and without god in the world ; but we hope you will not passe such rash censure upon the brethren who bee not gathered into the society as set members . answ . to say some beleevers may bee without in some respect ▪ is farre from such a censure : the scripture saith of israel in their corrup●… estate , and defect of the ordinances of god , that they were a long time without god , without law , without a teaching priest , yet that hard expression doth not equall them with the heathen , much lesse to say some beleevers are without the visible church in regard of visible church communion , and wee judge no otherwise of such then of our selves when wee were in the like case . reply . ninthly , 〈…〉 shall ●…ee without 〈◊〉 that is not 〈…〉 of the particular combination , 〈…〉 reformed . churches that ascribe the 〈…〉 , and not to the community ▪ and some amongst 〈…〉 also . and therefore wee 〈…〉 approved christ 〈…〉 are either without or not capable of church censures : if they offen●… , though no set members , for 〈…〉 themselves 〈…〉 ordinances for a time , and 〈…〉 ●…ffending 〈◊〉 . answ . this objection hath no colour without extreame straining of our application o●… 1 cor ▪ 5 . 1●… , seeing 〈◊〉 never limited the position to churches of the same judgemen●… , or in like degree of order to ours ; it is onely a forced 〈◊〉 which is cast upon us , but wee can 〈…〉 our brethren ●…and●… , neither doe we know any church o●… 〈◊〉 that 〈◊〉 the power of the keys to the presbytery or classi●… , excluding the community amongst us . secondly , for that objection that such pu●… themselves under the ordinances of christ for the time ; if with profession of faith and subjection to the government of christ , they desire seales , it is something ; but that the 〈◊〉 de●…i●…ing of seales doth include such a subjection in it selfe , being 〈◊〉 for this or that act of administration , wee cannot understand : but let this bee really made good , that defiting seales it being a way , that subjects themselves to the church as members , and the case will bee issued , being understood of such approved christians as the position speakes of . lastly , to proceed against such as a●… not members , or of another church , as with an offending member of our owne , is not much unlike the proceedings of victor in his contentious time or may sow the seeds of such usurpations , which wee leave to the godly wise to consider of . reply . tenthly , if upon good reason a passage of scripture can bee cleared to prove that for which it was never alleadged by any writer , wee are not to except against it for want of mans testimony , onely in such cases our reasons must bee convincing , but for the exposition of this text wee have not observed one substantiall ground or approved author to bee alledged . dr. ames shewing the necessitie of christians joyning themselves to some peculiar church giveth this reason ; quoniam alias fieri non potest quin conturbentur signa illa quibus fideles ab infidelibus discerni possunt , 1 cor. 5.12 . but herein dr. ames manifestly sheweth that by them without , heathens and unbeleevers must be understood , and not beleevers , though of no setled society for the time ; for thus wee conceive hee argueth . the signes whereby the faithfull are to bee discerned from unbeleevers must not bee confounded : but unlesse christians make themselves actuall members of a church , the signes whereby the faithfull are discerned from unbeleevers , will bee obscured and darkned : and if this be his reason , how can that text bee alledged unlesse by men without , infidels bee understood ? answ . first , that we have reasons to alledge it in that sense and respect declared , may appeare by our answers to your objections . secondly , that wee have one approved authour so alleadging it , viz. doctor ames , shall appeare in cleering his meaning from your objections . 1. grant that by men without ( according to doctor ames his reason ) infidels be understood by the apostle , yet how shall the signes discerning beleevers from unbeleevers , bee confounded by such as joyne not to some particular church , if those beleevers doe not in some respect stand without amongst unbeleevers ? and the consequence is so plaine that the owne syllogisme whereinto you cast his argument would have concluded so much , if it had been suffered to speake out in the conclusion . for in stead of saying , except such joyne to some church , the signes will be darkned and obscured ; the reason rightly concluded would have said ( fieri non potest ) it cannot bee but the signes will bee confounded : and therefore in his judgement it is unavoidabl●… that such mix themselves with unbeleevers , that are without indeed properly in the apostles sense . reply . againe , doctor ames , lib. 4. cap. 17. speaking of infants to be received , saith it is required , first , that they be in the covenant of grace by outward profession , &c. answ . what you alledge here out of doctor ames , wee confesse sheweth that hee was very large in his charity about the baptizing of infants , extending the same to the child of a papist , &c. but it may seeme by some passages that hee understood by profession of faith , such as live in the visible churches , and lookes at the child of a papist as one of a visible church for substance , though so exceedingly corrupt : but all this do not disprove that he understood 1 cor. 5.12 . otherwise then hath been said . what you alledge out of his second manuduction concerning the churches of england we consent unto , neither doe wee deny seales to any , if they demand them as members of any true church in england , and in an orderly way . chap. x. consid . 5. reply . to the first consideration , if it bee repugnant to divine institution to admit of approved christians lawfully baptized , walking in the faith , members of the visible churches , and partakers of church priviledges amongst us , to the lords supper , or their children to baptisme , because they bee not entered into church-fellowship according to your order , then it is unlawfull though no such evill consequences are to bee feared , but if by accident some abuse should fall out , the evill is to bee prevented by all lawfull meanes , but the faithfull are not to be debarred utterly of the order of god , whereto they have right and title by his free grant and gracious institution . answ . wee cannot but still complaine of this liberty , which is taken in changing the termes of the question , first : that clause , members of visible churches , is not in the po●…ition , nor is it maintained by us in that sense , neither doe wee limit church-fellowship to our order , ( as it is called ) but acknowledge churches defective in matters of order , ( as was said ) in the answer : and therefore it is an apparent wrong to us and to the readers , so oft to put in such things as are not in the controversie . secondly , if it bee unlawfull by divine institution , may not evill consequences bee added , and if both hold , are not our reasons the more strong ? what needeth then such a reply ? thirdly , we have oft granted a remote right , but next and immediate we still deny , and wee conceive no other order of god in his churches to prevent such evils , then by joyning to the instituted churches of christ ▪ reply . seals may bee prophaned when the dispensers cannot helpe it : but here is no feare or danger of such consequences necessary to follow : for wee speake not of all sorts , at randome , but of christians professing the faith intirely , lawfully baptized , knowne and approved to the wise and judicious visible members of the churches amongst us sufficiently known to you , or orderly recommended , &c. answ . the feare and danger in this case is more then ( so farre off ) can easily bee discerned , though the limitations bee good in themselves , yet the application of this description in the first part of it would open a doore wider then many can imagine , for many such ( in the judgement even of the wisest ) comming into this state of temptations prove farre otherwise , ( even your selves being judges , if you were here ) wee suppose the experience of the discoveries god hath made in these late trials of england , amongst forward professors , will teach our brethren to consider how many professors may prove here . yet secondly , if you add such as retaining their membership in your churches , are recommended unto us by your churches , or by known godly ministers , wee can then according to order receive them , and avoid the confusion and inconveniences wee objected . thirdly , if also it be taken into the description , knowne and sufficiently approved of our selves , then the doore is open to them to the communion of the church and all the priviledges thereof , though they cannot settle in the place of their present abode , and this way of order would prevent the inconveniences : but if wee come to put a difference any other way , wee cannot avoid it but great offence will be given to many , and the inconveniences objected in some degree at least will follow here with us , and it may be much more in some other places . reply . you professe high respect to your brethren in old england , but it seemes you judge them insufficient to give you orderly testimony of the sincerity of approved christians well known and living amongst them , which two cannot well agree . answ . this position holds forth no such judgement of the insufficiency of our brethren in the case , neither have we shewed it by rejecting such orderly testimony that we know . reply . wee speake not of such , who against light refuse to professe subjection to the gospell of christ , or to joyne to some approved church , &c. answ . neither doe wee impute that to all that joyne not unto us , but our meaning is , that under such a description of approved christians , we shall bee necessitated to admit of some , if not many such . reply . no question but many have been admitted by the church , who in truth are much too light , and some refused , who are better deserving then they that cast them off . answ . bee it so , that through personall failings , and weaknesse of discerning , it may and doe fall out sometimes , yet this no way hinders , but that all lawfull meanes to prevent the same may and ought to be used , and this we may before the lord professe , that the purpose and desire of our hearts are , as well to embrace the weakest humble christian , as to keepe out the proud pharisee ▪ and wee have seen a gracious presence of christ in his churches , blessing our indeavours therein , whatsoever any discontented persons returning back , may clamour to the contrary . chap. xi . consid . 6. reply . to the sixt consideration , this conclusion is not to the question propounded : for wee speake of such as cannot , not of such as refuse to joyne themselves to the churches ; or if they doe not joyne , it is not out of contempt , or wilfull neglect , but for lacke of opportunity , or through their default , that should admit them , but doe not . answ . the learned authour h●…re wholly mistakes the conclusion of this argument ; the conclusion is plaine and expressed with the ordinary note , ergo no christian can expect by the appointment of god , to partake in the seales , till he hath joyned himselfe in church-fellowship , and in the call of the minister ; and this is fully to the question propounded : and wee marvel●… it should not be observed , but the last words of the answer should bee put in stead of it , which are onely a secondary deduction from the former , as an absurdity , which may follow : if the other be not granted . and yet hence occasion is taken to charge us with injurious and tyrannical dealing toward such as are not admitted , which we leave to the lord to judge of , and of us . you say , you accuse not the discretion of our churches , but impute it to the rashnesse of the zealous multitude , but if it were so practised , as is conceived , the churches and their guides should shew little wisedome , and faithfulnesse to the lord , and the soules of his people . reply . when a reason is demanded of your judgement , why you debarre approved christians from the seales , and we dislike it , you should put this note upon them , as if against light they refused orderly to subject themselves to the gospell of christ . what warrant you have thus to censure , what use of this manner of dispute , we leave it to your godly wisedome to judge . answ . wee are heartily sorry that this reverend man of god , out of a meere and palpable mistake of the conclusion of the dispute , should runne out to condemne us for so much c●…nsoriousnesse of others without cause , whether our manner of dispute bee here so without use , wee leave to the judicious reader to judge . and that wee are far from such censures of godly approved christians amongst us , wee can approve our selves to god , and the consciences of many that live amongst us , wee doe not say that all who doe not joyne with us , doe refuse against light , yet wee finde it true too oft , that forward professors in england here discover evidently an heart refusing against light to submit to gods ordinances , and therefore wee had cause to say , it were unreasonable such should have equall liberty with others . reply . in the consideration it selfe there are many propositions couched to be examined , the first , that none have power to dispense seales but such as are called to the ministry , is freely granted . the second , that no man can be so called , till there bee a church to call him , needeth explication . for by the church you must understand the community of the faithfull , as they are one body without officers , and such a church there cannot be , without a ministry to call , and admit them into church fellowship . answ . this consideration shines with such clearenesse , that an impartiall eye may easily see that the truth by sundry divertic●…l●… i●… rather clouded , then the argument fairely answered , this second proposition being too plaine to bee denied , interpretation●… are sought , but they are rather objections , to which wee shall answer in order . first , though wee grant the lord ordinarily gathered churches by the ministry of men in office , as the apostles , evangelists , &c. yet not alwayes so , as is evident , acts 11.20 , 2●… . the story of waldus is well knowne , and we suppose you will grant those waldense●… the name of a true church . origen when hee was not allowed of the church to bee a ministe●… , yet converted many who died martyrs . the story also of frumentius is well known , with divers others . secondly , ministers by office are of two sorts , either such as are called immediatly or mediatly , such as were immediatly and extraordinarily called , were before churches , and were called together and begin churches , ( as the apostles , matth. 28.20 . act. 1.8 . ) but all ordinary officers that are to administer in a church doe necessarily presuppose a church to call them , unlesse any will adventure to say in plaine english , that the calling of a minister may bee without the antecedent election of the people , and then wee shall finde what to reply . reply . the apostles ●…aptized not themselves , but by the helpe of others , and those not called of the people to baptize , 1 cor. 1.17 . answ . bee it so that in corinth paul baptized not many but by others , yet first we demand , by whom did paul and the apostles baptize ? it was either by evangelists , and so it is all one , as if the apostles , as extraordinary officers did it , or by the pastors newly chosen and ordained in the churches newly gathered , who might baptize the rest ; and then the church was before such officers : or else by private persons , which is denyed expresly in the reply to the first proposition . reply . the apostles appointed by election elders in every city or church , and so there was a church before elders , but this church was a society of beleevers by baptisme admitted into church fellowship , and therefore there must be ministers to baptize , before there can bee a church to call a minister . for a company of unbaptized men cannot choose a minister to baptize them . answ . wee see here still how unawares the truth of this proposition and of the position it selfe breaketh forth ; for the proposition it is fully yeelded and is most plain in the place alluded to acts 14. vers . 23. and the position is yeelded also , for if the apostles admitted beleevers into all those churches in the first constitution of them by baptisme , ( which is the very truth wee contend for , and was formerly denyed ) and these churches were such as chose elders ( and therefore were particular churches ) and so the cause is fully yeelded . reply . a company of converts unbaptized ought to desire baptisme , but they have no power to elect one amongst themselves to dispense the s●●les unto the rest , &c. it can never bee shewed in scripture that any society of unbaptized did first choose from among themselves a pastour or teacher by whom they might bee baptized , you cannot produce one example or other proofe in scripture of one man teaching the gospel ministerially , but hee was baptized and a member of a true church or of a society , who made choyce of a pastor or teacher , but they were baptized persons . answ . 1 if all this were granted that when churches were gathered by apostles and extraordinary officers out of persons unbaptized , they were first baptized into church fellowship , before they chose officers , and so long as the apostles remained , enjoyed from them other ordinances , as act. 2. and so had no officers chosen by themselves , but by christ immediatly for them , yet as when the apostles left them , they must choose officers if they will enjoy ordinances : so when there is no such apostles nor evangelists , nor no need of baptisme , ( as is usually the cause of christians arising out of popery ) in this case wee say such churches can partake of no ordinances without they choose officers , and yet this varyeth not from the scripture patterne neither . but onely so farre as the state of those beleevers differ , when paul found about twelve beleevers at ephes●…s , who were baptized by john the baptist , act. 19.1 . &c. if these were by the apostle set into a constituted church , as is probable , ( being called on further to the knowledge of christ and his will and wayes ) there was no need of baptizing them againe with water , but onely with the holy ghost , as the apostles were at pentecost , act. 1.5 . with 2.1.2 . and yet no varying from the rule in so doing : and the like is our case now . 2 if this bee so as here you urge , then those former assertions must needs fall to the ground ; as , that every society in covenant with god is the true church of god , page 23. and that it is simply necessary to the being of a church , that it bee layd upon christ the foundation , which being done , the remaining of what is forbidden , or want of what is commanded , cannot put the society from the right and title of a church . if these were so a company of unbaptized persons may bee a church , being in covenant with god and layd on christ the foundation , though they want baptisme . 3 though no such example of unbaptized persons choosing a pastour among themselves can bee shewed , when there was no need thereof ; ( apostles being at hand to baptize them ) yet why in absence of apostles , &c. might they not choose some other baptized christian , who comming into some farre remote country of infidels , is a meanes of their conversion ; wee see nothing to hinder : it would bee hard for any to shew an example of presbyters holding a synod or ordaining of elders , without apostles or some extraordinary officer , yet we suppose , you make no doubt of such things . 4 if an example of one unbaptized that preached & baptized ministerially would satisfie , the example of iohn the baptist might answer your demand , for whether hee baptized himselfe , or were baptized by some other at first , an unbaptized person did baptize , but wee see no need of such an example : scripture grounds are sufficient to guide us in these cases , bee they rules , examples or good consequences deduced from them , and wee reason thus ; a church of beleevers professing christ have liberty from christ to choose their officers : but a company of unbaptized men professing the entire faith in a combined society , is a true church : and therefore may choose their officers . reply . the third proposition : that the power of calling ministers is given by christ unto the church , must also rightly be understood , by the church must not be understood the faithfull alone , but their guids and officers with them , who are to goe before them and to governe and direct them in their choyce , neither can wee say two or three beleevers linked in a society is such a church , to whom the call of ministers do belong , but that right was given by christ to such churches , as were gathered by the apostles . answ . the first limitation of this proposition wee passe over as being spoken to in the former ; to this wee answer , that when a church have guides , wee grant they are to governe them therein , but not to limit them , whom to choose , but when the church have no such guides , ( as by death and other wayes it may fall out , ) shall they then lose their right of choosing ? if so , let it be shewed to whom the right falls ; they may take what counsell and helpe from others they want , but the choyce is onely in them , and therefore this limitation is needlesse . for the number of two or three wee contend not , but such churches as the apostles gathered were particular congregations , and therefore the right is in such , bee they more or fewer . when bellarmine saith , that our ministers intruded themselves into churches ; no , saith dr. field , for the people elected them , which they might lawfully doe and separate from wicked ministers , which hee proves by the testimony of cyprian , writing to the bishops of spaine not to communicate with basilides and martialis , who fell to idolatry in times of persecution , quando ipsa plebs potestatem habet , &c. also from ocham , who saith , si papa & maxime celebres episcopi incidunt in haeresin , ad catholicos devoluta est potestas omnis judicandi : to which hee addes this reason , either they must separate from them , and choose others , or consent to their impieties . field lib. 3. cap. 39. what followeth in this place being little to this point , and for the most part not scrupled by us : and what is not acknowledged by us , wee shall have a fitter occasion to speake to it , therefore here wee passe it over . reply . proposi . 4. that all those who desire seales are bound to joyne themselves in church fellowship , that so they may call a minister to dispense the seales unto them , will not follow from the former rightly understood : for they must partake of the seales before they can joyne themselves together in church estate . answ . to this objection was spoken before , onely we marvell why you say they must first partake of seales , when as acts 2. they were baptized and added to the church the same day : and 't is granted the apostles gathered churches by baptisme . reply . such as for lack of meanes and opportunity cannot joyne in such estate , or bee dispersed persecution or destitute of pastors or teachers , may for a time seeke the seales in other societies . answ . the first instance is the thing in question ; and such as may come to any society to desire seales are not wholly destitute of meanes and opportunity to joyne , viz. to that society . the two other instances being of such as may bee supposed still to hold their right in a church society ; the thing i●… granted by us in way of communion of churches . reply . the people also who are deprived of right and libertie to chuse their pastour , may desire the seales of him that is set over them . answ . this objection is easie , for in desiring seales of him and submitting themselves to his ministry , they doe now choose him ; however at first they opposed his comming . but what is this to what ought to bee in an orderly way whereof wee speake ? reply . these propositions being allowed for currant ; a nation or people plunged into idolatry or infidelity , or otherwise dischurched cannot by ordinary meanes recover into a church estate , wherein they may lawfully and according to gods appointment desire or expect that the seales of the covenant shall bee dispensed unto them . answ . what should hinder , if the whole nation would bee willing , to recover themselves into churches ? indeed that is rare to be found that all will affect such a recovery . but wee see nothing to hinder but all the nation or so many as are awakened in conscience to bewaile their apostasie and lament after the lord , having especially the countenance of the supreme magistrate , severall companies of christians may combine in churches so as may best suite with their edification , chuse officers and injoy ordinances . nay , è contra , our protestant divines , as chemnitius , field , brentius , whitacher , luther , &c. make peoples power of electing their ministers the best foundation of a peoples recovery of a true ministry and church estate . reply . the fifth proposition riseth beyond measure , that no christian can expect by the appointment of god to partake in the seales , till hee have joyned himselfe in church fellowship and in the call of the minister ▪ we conceive you will not say that children and women have to doe in the call of the minister . if some part of the church doe not consent in the call of the minister , must they separate from the ordinances of worship , &c. answ . the seeming s●…ellings of this proposition will easily full and run within bankes and bounds , if it bee received in its true sense and meaning ; for by the call of a minister must needs bee understood the voluntary subjection of all church members to his ministery after hee is called , as well as the act of election of him at the first : it were irrationall to thinke a minister is to bee chosen over againe , whensoever a member is added to the church . and therefore ou●… meaning was not hard to conceive , and being so taken , women choose their minister , that is , voluntarily submit to him being chosen : children are subjected to him by their parents : the dissenting part of the church ought to submit to him being chosen , and ●…oe if they remaine under his ministry ; and so in all other cases you have or can suppose . reply . here you say people must joyne in the call of a minister before they can lawfully desire and bee admitted to the seales . and another hath zealously affirmed , it is a presumptuous sinne to choose an officer not trayned up and tryed in deba●…ing , dis●…ss●…g , c●…ying and contriving church affaires , in ad●…nishing , ●…ch●…ting , comforting , &c. l●…y these together and consider how long many a poore soule converted to the faith must bee compelled to w●…t gods ordinances . answ . first , it doth not answer the profession in the latter thus to joyne us with mr. robinson as another of the same sort as it were . for such as would gladly receive euery syllable from us that may dislodge their thoughts of separation in us ( as wee are heartily desired to bee assured of in the epistle to this reply ) wee thinke would not so closely joyne us with such they would have us parted from ; and upon so little occasion and to so little purpose , unlesse they doe much forget themselves . secondly , when it cannot be denied but the choyse of ministers is in the church , and that hands should not rashly bee laid on any man : and deacons the lowest office should bee proved and then minister being found blamelesse ; yea hee saith and these also proved , implying that others also should bee so , 1 tim. 3.10 . what fault can be found with the substance of what either robinson or our selves speake , if our meaning , and his were but charitably taken ? if his word bee over-zealous to say it is a presumpteous sin to doe otherwise , what is that to us ? thirdly , for the delay of ordinances , if both these be taken together : in most cases it need not be long , where god affordeth able and fit men for office . but if some delay be , and that a church want some ordinances , and cannot by communion with other churches injoy them , ( which is rare , ) yet is it not better to forbeare some ordinances a while , then miscarry in so great a worke as the choise of officers , upon which the following comfort and good of the church doth so much depend ? the demand following is answered in this whole discourse , and wee hope not with words but proofes ; especially in our answer to the reply in the first consideration : neither doe wee see any such difficulty , but that such christians may as easily joyne to such a church for a time , as desire to injoy the ordinances , and to sit loose from it : for transient members we disallow not . reply . if the propositions may stand for good , i feare we shal scarce finde that ever in ordinary way the sacraments were lawfully dispensed or received in the christian churches of god since the first foundation of them . answ . if they bee taken in their true meaning , and in that latitude we intend them , wee see no such cause of scruple . for what is more ordinary in all true churches , then for people , first to chuse their ministers , & then to receive the seals at their hands ? and this hath beene the way of ancient reformers , it is true ▪ many corruptions have beene in many true churches , and usurpations upon the right of the people in choosing their ministers , as also in administrations of the ordinances themselves , and oft in the constitution of churches . but as the maintaining of any truth of god against those corruptions in worship , &c. doth not argue an unlawfulnesse of the ordinances in such churches , but convinceth onely the corrupt administration of them : so in this case to assert the right way of churches electing officers , and injoying ordinances against all corruptions that have beene in the churches , doth not make a nullity of the ordinances themselves . we may say that this conclusion riseth beyond measure . the objections being thus answered , we leave the conclusion to the judgement of the indifferent reader . chap. xii . reply . to the seventh consideration , the practise of the church of strangers in london , recorded by john alasco , is far differing from your judgment and practise in the point in question . for first , say they , paul testifieth that the church it self , without exception of any member of it , is cleane or holy by the administration of baptisme . answ . we confesse the same . reply . secondly , they hold communion with the church of england as one with theirs . answ . the church of england they call it not , but the english churches : and we deny not the same in an orderly way : as they also required testimony of their piety , if any did but present a child to baptisme in their church . wee have often professed this , and by your owne grant most of the approved christians amongst us are not members of the english churches , having renounced their right of membership and commuion with the church they were of there . reply . thirdly , this order was observed by them to prevent the impostures of some that pretended to the english they were joyned to the strangers ; & contra . answ . this was not the onely reason of their order ; for his words are , all strangers doe not joyne themselves to our church ; yea there are those that avoiding all churches , &c. which plainely sheweth they looked further then such according to our practise : even their owne country men fled for religion , as we are : they yet received them not till by publike profession of faith and subjection to discipline , they joyned themselves to some congregationall church . secondly , this sheweth what disorder and abuse of ordinances will follow from such a liberty to admit such as are not joyned to some church : for by this meanes many will neglect all order and discipline , if they may but have the seales . thirdly , to put all out of question that their practise and judgement in effect was the same with ours in this point , note the first question propounded by them , are these infants which you offer the seed of this , church that they may lawfully be here baptized by our ministery ? chap. xiii . thus farre wee have answered to the reply made to the considerations in our answer to the 3. and 4. positions . now whereas wee tooke notice of three objections against our first consideration , and answered the same : it pleaseth the learned authour to take up onely two of them , and with much inlargement to urge the same as his reasons against the positions , and to apply our answers thereunto ; by which meanes our answers to the objections briefly set downe may seeme not so apt and full here as they would appeare in their proper places : and therefore it will bee needfull for us to inlarge our selves somewhat in answering some passages at least in the reasons as they are here propounded , before we come to the reply . reply . reason . 1. that sacred order god hath set in his visible church , &c. answ . these words with all that follow , whatever they may seeme to carry with them , are nothing but a bare denyall of the positions in variety of expressions . reply . for first , the baptisme of john was true baptisme , &c. but hee never demanded of those hee received , whether they were entered into church covenant , &c. answ . this wee had in substance before , and is answered ( with all the other instances in this first reason ) in our answer to the reply to the first consideration , and in other places ; and therefore in vaine here to repeat the same . and wee have observed more then once your plaine confession that the apostles constituted churches by baptisme , even such churches as they set elders in by the election of the people . reply . the second reason in substance is this , because from christ and the constant practise of the apostles we learne , that such as are called of god , received the holy ghost , beleeve in the lord , professe their faith in him with repentance and amendment of life , have a right to baptisme , and desiring it are wronged if they bee deprived thereof . answ . we grant the whole ; but as it is supposed in due order they must receive it ; so wee desire no more , for wee grant upon these common grounds , such have jus ad rem , but not jus in re , and the immediate fruition of them . reply . thirdly , by a lively faith a man hath internal communion with christ , by profession of the intire faith joyned with conformity of life in righteousnes , holinesse and fellowship of love , hee is a member of the visible congregation or flock of christ , though no set member of a free independent society : and baptisme is a seale of our admission into the flocke of christ ; not ever more , but by accident , of our receiving into a particular congregation . answ . this reason stands upon such a sense of the catholik church as cannot be found : and it was before confessed that the catholick church consisteth of all true particular churches , as the parts of it . and therefore how can a man be visibly a member of the whole , and belong to no part thereof ? secondly , we deny not but such have a right to be in the particular church , and so to baptisme and all ordinances ? but as by such profession they are not members of any particular church , so neither have they immediate right to the priviledges thereof without admittance into the same . fit matter , such are for a particular visible church that professe the intire faith , &c. but it doth not admit them actually thereunto : and your owne expression secretly implyeth as much , when you say baptisme is a seale of our admission into the church or flocke of christ ; if baptisme bee the seale of our admission , then there is an admission thereunto before baptisme : but who doth admit , and where , and when is any admitted to the church , but in particular congregations ? can any bee admitted into a church , that whole church being ignorant thereof ? but a man may professe the intire faith , and live accordingly amongst the heathen , where neither any church nor member of it take knowledge thereof ; and therefore bare profession doth not admit men , but make them fit to bee received and admitted into the visible church . your fourth reason wee have had twice before , and answered the same . reply . to our answer of the first objection ; from the instances of the centurion , lydia , the jailour , and the e●…nuch . first , if where the holy ghost is given and received , and faith professed according to gods ordinance , there none may hinder from being baptized ( scil . by such as have power to baptize them , ) then either such are members of the church , or baptisme is not a priviledge of the church ; then it is not essentiall to baptisme in the first institution that it should bee dispensed to none but members of a congregationall assembly . answ . it is freely granted , first , that baptisme is a priviledge of the church . secondly , that such as professe the faith , and have received the holy ghost , are members of the church , ( if by church ●…ee meant the church mysticall considered as visible , though not alwayes political ) thirdly , that these may receive baptisme by such as have power to baptize them ; but immediately to baptize them , none had power but by an extraordinary call of god so to doe , as hath bin formerly shewed . but it wil not hence follow , that ordinary officers have such a power , ( wanting such extraordinary call ) because the members of the church catholicke having right unto the seales ; yet the immediate fruition of them , they must have by ordinary officers in a politicall body , the onely subject according to order of all such institutions : otherwise we must admit private baptismes , if the extraordinary examples of the apostles be pressed for our patterne . reply . then the apostles in dispensing seales walked by rules of scripture and grounds common to us , and then the difficulty remaining is onely this : whether a pastour may dispense seales to such as have right to them and do orderly desire them , though hee be not yet a set member of a congregation . answ . wee grant the apostles ordinarily and generally baptized upon common grounds , but still when they did so they received them into some particular church ; and so baptized them : and in the like orderly way any pastour may doe the same . secondly , we answer , things may bee done ( sano sensu ) upon common and morall grounds , and yet may not be done by others upon the same grounds . to give one instance in stead of many : the apostles preached the gospel to gather in the elect of god and to edifie the church &c. and ministers upon the same common grounds must now preach the gospel also : yet in that the apostles on those grounds preached to all nations , this doth not warrant ministers now to do the like : so here though we baptize beleevers as they did , yet wee may not do it to all in all cases as they did . and therefore the rule holds onely when all circumstances are alike as well as the common grounds . reply . secondly , in the instance given , it is not probable that baptisme was evermore administred by the apostles or evangelists . for before the death of christ the disciples baptized , when they were neither apostles nor evangelists properly . after the death of christ , &c. if philip , ananias , and others might baptize such as were no members of particular congregations , then may ordinary pastours doe the like . answ . you mistake here in the force of our answer , as hath beene shewed in the first consideration , to which this objection and answer belong . for wee doe not make all the acts of the apostles and evangelists extraordinary , but generally orderly in the way wee professe . secondly , wee answer to the particulars ▪ ( not to wrastle with the ghosts of humane imaginations and conjectures , whether any besides the apostles baptized the 3000. act. 2. ) as for philip and ananias if they baptized , did they baptize as private men , or as church officers ? if the second , what officers were they ? ordinary or extraordinary ? wee thinke it will not bee thought they were ordinary who were honoured with such extraordinary worke : but in what office soever they were , those particular actions ( in baptizing the eunuch and paul ) were done by an immediate call of god , as is evident in the story . reply . thirdly , it is very improbable that the persons baptized were in church state , or order . if they were members of the jewish church not yet dissolved , this is not to the purpose , for men have not right to baptisme , because members of the jewish church , but because disciples , and as you say , joyned together in covenant , &c. answ . wee grant , that since the visible kingdome of christ was set up in visible christian churches , the seales belong properly and ordinarily to the members of christian churches not jewish : yet wee may affirme that if in any speciall case a beleever was baptized by any that had a speciall call thereto , where there was no christian church present actually to joyne unto : yet being a member of the jewish church not yet dissolved , the case does not so much vary from the set order of christ in those times , and that is all wee intend . reply . if the eunuch , and centurion were proselytes , and of the jewish church , the sam●…ritans whom philip baptized were not so , and that any gentiles , or the jaylour were set members of a christian assembly , is very strange , &c. answ . this is fully answered before in the first consideration ; and that which is according to the rule and mind of christ , and the first , and common practise of the apostles , act. 2. to joyne men to the church when they baptized them , need not seeme strange . reply . in the apostles practise two things are to bee considered . first , the circumstance of the action . secondly , the substance or quality of the act. in some circumstances the baptizing of some of these might bee extraordinary , but the substance , and quality of the action was grounded upon rules perpetuall , and common to us and them . that is done in an extraordinary way , &c. answ . 1 wee suppose amongst such circumstances you will reckon that for one , that the eunuch was baptized alone in the wildernesse , not in any visible assembly of saints . wherein ordinary pastors may not imitate that act : and this comes not farre short of what wee say : for the chiefe proof that they were not received into a particular church , lies in their absence from such an assembly : and if they might bee admitted to the catholick church without the presence of any christian ( but him that baptized them ) why not into a particular church as well ? 2 the large discourse about the apostles extraordinary power , and doing things upon common grounds : is so oft said for substance , and answered before , that it were vaine to trouble the reader againe with the same thing . reply . secondly , an argument followes necessarily from a particular example to a generall , when the proofe of one particular to another is made by force of the similitude common to the whole kind under which those particulars are contained . now in this matter wee speake of ; no reason can bee named why wee should thinke it lawfull for the apostles to baptize such as were no set members , and the same should be unlawfull in all cases for pastors of particular congregations . answ . wee deny that the apostles did so ordinarily , and therefore your argument doth not hold ; if it bee built upon the common practise ; but if it be built upon some few speciall cases ▪ we retort the argument thus : that which the apostles did ordinarily upon common grounds , that pastors ought to doe : but ordinarily they baptized disciples , admitting them first into particular churches ▪ therefore in the third reason wee grant the conclusion of it , that the apostles did walke by ordinary rules generally . reply . fourthly , the practise of the apostles in receiving the faithfull , &c. is backed on divine precept , &c. answ . if you meane they baptized such without receiving them into some particular church , wee deny this assumption upon the grounds laid downe before . reply . fiftly , in the first consideration you prove the seales to be the priviledge of the church in ordinary dispensation by this passage of scripture , then they that gladly received the word were baptized : but if the apostles baptiz●…d by extraordinary dispensation in your sense this testimony is insufficient for that purpose . answ . although the printed copy of our answer omit this proofe wholly , and also , rom. 9.4 . yet in our true cypy wee alledged , acts 2 41 , 42.47 . wherein you will finde not onely this passage , then they that gladly received the word were baptized : but withall that they were added to the church , and such a church as continued stedfastly in the fellowship , &c. of the apostles . likewise verse 47. that the conversion , and baptizing of disciples being omitted , the joyning or adding to the church is put in the stead thereof , which proofes as they are omitted wholly in the printed copy , so also you make no reply unto them . secondly , by these proofes it might easily have been seene that wee did not looke upon all the apostles acts in this case of baptisme as extraordinary , but that their first and leading examples were ordinary , and in that order wee plead for : which if it had been regarded , much labour had been saved in this dispute , which hath been spent to little purpose . and , our second reason . reply . in due order the seales belong to them to whom the grant is given , but the grant is vouchsafed to the faithfull , and their seed , forgivenesse of sinnes , &c. and the benefits of the covenant are so linked together , that where one is granted none is denyed , &c. answ . 't is true , the seales belong to all them by a remote right to whom the grant is given , ( as hath been oft said ) but not immediate : yet in the very propounding of this reason wee may observe two things that doe cut the sinewes of it . 1 the limitation of due order , which as hath been said can no where be found but in a particular church . let any shew what order christ hath put his catholick visible church into , or where that order is to bee seene but in particular churches , by which order every one is bound to joyne to such churches , as well as to partake in the outward ordinances of gods worship , which are there onely to be found . secondly , it is granted that not onely forgivenesse of sins , but all other benefits of the covenant of grace are linked together , and are the grant sealed up in the sacrament ; and if so , is not visible conjunction with christ and his church ; with all the priviledges of the church , and ordinances of the same , part of that grant by the covenant of grace , or of the gospell ? wee suppose none would deny it , why then should not visible beleevers require , and take up this part of the grant , as well as the seale of it ? for sigillum sequitur d●…num ; let them take this gift and the seale is ready for them . and this may answer the first part of the reply about rom. 4.11 . as also all the rest which followes being things so oft repeated , and answered before , as make it tedious to all . chap. xiiii . position 5. that the power of excommunication is so in the body of the church , that what the major part shall allow must bee done , though the pastors and governors , and the rest of the assembly be of another mind , and that peradventure upon more substantiall reasons . reply . this question is much mistaken , for the demand is not , whether in the congregation matters should be carried by number of votes against god , as you interpret the position , but whether the power of excommunication so lie in the body of the congregation as that sentence must proceed in externo foro , according to the vote and determination of the major part , and so in admissions of members , &c. and though they have no power against god , but for god , yet in execution of that power they may bee divided in judgement , and one part must err●… . now hence the question is moved , whether the power bee so in the people , that what the major part determine must stand . answ . if our whole answer had been attended unto , it is so cleare and full , that it could not with any shew of reason bee subject to such a mistake : to omit the first part of our answer affirmatively , wherein wee cite mr. parker as consenting with him . in the second part to the position as stated , our answer is plainely negative , that excommunication is not so seated , neither ought to bee so in any of the churches of the lord jesus . what followes is our reason grounded upon the last clause of the position , because churches ought to carry things not by number of votes against god ( as this position implies ) but by strength of rule and reason according to god , and for edification , 2 cor. 13.8 . 2 cor. 10.8 . now let any judge whether the position doth not imply such an absurdity so oft as things should bee carried by the major vote against the officers , and the rest having better reasons , and therefore wee are apt to think that if the learned author had been so ready to embrace any syllable that lends to dislodge these thoughts of us as leaning to separation , hee would have beleeved our plaine negation of this position , which indeed is according to our constant practise never following the major part of votes against the officers , but counting it the duty of the officers in such cases either to satisfie the consciences of the major part ( or lesser ) by the rule of the word , or to yeeld not to the vote but reasons if they bee stranger ; or to suspend the businesse , and referre to the counsell of other churches , if they cannot agree but a division arise according to the patterne , act. 15. reply . amongst them that hold the power of the keyes to bee given to the church , some ( as fenner , parker , i. d. ) distinguish between the power itselfe which they give to the church , and the execution which they confine to the presbytery , others give the power of the keyes with the exercise thereof to the whole body of the church ; or if in the dispensation they attribute any thing to the officers , it is but as servants of the church from whom they derive their authority , and here lies the stone at which the separation stumble , and which wee conceive to bee your judgement and practise , wherein wee required your plaine answer , but have received no satisfaction . you referre us to mr. parkers reasons to prove the power of the keyes belong to the whole church , who are of farre differing judgement from him in the point it selfe , and if your judgement and practise bee as the separation ( as wee feare ) you dissent from him and wee from you in these considerations . answ . wee are sorry to see this reverend man of god so strongly possessed with a prejudicate opinion and feare of our concurrence with the separation : ( upon what grounds it is not said , nor can wee apprehend ) that neither our flat negation of the position , nor our reference to mr. parker as concurring with him , should give him any satisfaction to the contrary . but if that bee the judgement , and practise of the separation which is here imputed unto them , viz. that the power and exercise of the keys is in the body of the church , and what the officers doe therein is but as servants of the church from whom they derive their authority ; if our profession may bee of any use to satisfie , wee doe freely , and heartily professe to the contrary : affirming that the authoritative power of transacting all things in the church , is in the hands of the officers who minister in the name and power of christ to and over the church , and that the power or liberty of the community whereby they may and ought to concurre with their guides , so long as they rule in the lord , is to bee carried in a way of obedience unto them , and when upon just cause they dissent from them , still they are to walke respectfully towards them , and wee thinke our brethren are not ignorant that mr. parker and fenner give as much to the church in excommunication , as wee have pleaded for in any of our publique writings . but seeing wee are led by this learned author from this particular question about excommunication to that beaten controversie of the power of the keyes in generall , and the first subject thereof , whereby wee are forced to declare our selves herein ; wee shall briefly gleane up some few of our scattered apprehensions , as may most concerne the case in hand . 1 there are divers keyes that are diversly distributed to severall subjects in respect of execution , and therefore the question should have beene first stated : and what keyes are denied to the people and appropriated to the officers . and what to some officers , not to others , should have been shewed before arguments were pressed . 2 the state of the church being mixed of an aristocracy to which belongs office , and democracy to which belongs priviledge ; hence the power of the keyes is twofold . 1 * officiall power . 2 fraternall . the first belonging to the guides of the church , the other to the fraternity thereof . 3 the officiall power of the keyes is a power to act with authority in the name of christ ministerially in opening and shutting , binding and loosing , &c. in respect of which office ( while the minister acts according to the will of christ ) he is over the church in things properly ecclesiasticall , because hee stands in the roome of christ , and comes in his name , and hence in those church acts which are not proper to him , but common in some cases to the fraternitie , yet there is an office-authority upon them , which is not upon the like acts materially done by others . ex. gr . any brother may and ought to exhort and rebuke , 1 thes . 5.14 . heb. 3.13 . titus a minister is exhorted to doe the same thing , but with all authority , titus 2.15 . some able and gifted , though not in office , may occasionally open and apply the word , yet not with an office-authority . but an officer preacheth as an ambassadour of christ , 2 cor. 5. so also in admission of members , and casting out of offenders ( wherein though the fraternity have a power whether in consenting or otherwise ) yet they act obedientially in respect of their guides , declaring the rule , going before them in example , and commanding them ( if need bee ) in the name of christ to doe his pleasure . but the officers act in these things in the name and authority of him in whose roome they stand , and hence wee thinke that in case the fraternity without officers should cast out any , yet it is not altogether the same with that which may bee dispensed by the officers thereof , it being no officiall act . 2 fraternall power ( in publike church acts ) is a joynt power of liberty or priviledge ( in some sense , & in some cases ) to open , & shut , which power is not in any one or more severally ; but in the whole joyntly , for as they have power to combine , and so to receive others into the communion , so by like reason to shut out offenders from their communion ; but thus they do fraternally , not officially : and as they have such a power of election of officers to them , so they have also a fraternall power ( due order being attended ) to shut them out ( when there is just cause ) according to the common received rule , cujus est instituere , ejusdem est & destituere . these things which might bee more fully explained and confirmed , wee have onely briefly set downe both to wash off the blot of popular government from the wayes of christ , as if all authority were taken from the ministers , or nothing left them but to dispense the seales , and in all other things to ●…it meerely as a moderator in the churches of christ , which wee utterly disclaime . and also to make way for our more cleare answer to what is objected here in the reply : wee grant therefore the first argument and the conclusion thereof thus farre , that the officiall power of the keys was not given to the whole multitude , but onely there is given to them a power to choose officers , which officers should execute the same . reply . 2 if christ gave this power to the community , was it from the beginning of the church , or tooke it effect after the church was planted ? not the first , for then the apostles themselves should derive their power from the community , which they did not . answ . this reason is answered before ( so farre as concernes our tenent ) in the second consideration , where it is alledged , to which wee referre the reader ; neither doe wee say the officiall power is so given to the community , but such things as are here added , wee shall consider so farre as concernes us . reply . the apostles and other governours were given of christ to the church as for their end , and all their authority was given unto them for the church , as for the whole : but the authority it selfe was immediatly derived from christ , and is not in the church as the immediate subject , nor derived from the church , but from christ the king of the church . the authority of governour is given of christ for a gift to the church , but not a gift absolute . that it may reside in the power of the whole church , but for a conditionall gift communicated to the governours for the good of the whole . parker , pol. lib. 3. cap. 8. answ . 1 concerning the power of the apostles , and extraordinary officers wee now dispute not , it was answered before ; and for the authority of other officers , wee doe not affirme that it is derived from the church , but from christ for the good of the church ; but if the question bee of the application of an office , and the power of it to such and such persons in the church , wee would demand whether christ doth this to such a pastour and teacher immediatly or mediatly : if immediatly , then their call is not ( in this ) different from apostles , which paul expresly distinguisheth gal. 1.1 . paul was an apostle , not of man , nor by man , but of god , and by jesus christ ; false teachers are of man , and by man. true pastors as thomas , iohn , &c. are of god by man , and if christ communicate this office , and the authority annexed unto it mediatly by man , not immediatly , the question is , who is the subject of this power to call , and so to apply this office in the name of christ to this or that person , john , thomas , &c. wee hold this fraternall ministeriall power ( under christ ) is in the church , and so farre wee shall defend this position , and where-ever it be else placed it will be subject to all the absurdities that are imputed to us . to the sentence of parker we answer , that the misinterpreting one word of his sentence doth pervert his whole meaning , his words are pro dono conditionali ut rectoribus communicetur , i. e. that the church might not communicate that power to officers , nor keepe it in her owne hand . or that it might bee communicated from christ by the church . and this will appeare his meaning , and it agrees with that position hee holds so strongly , that the church is the first subject of the keys . reply . after the churches were established , it tooke not effect , for it is no where found in scripture that christ first committed this power to the apostles , and after to the community ; the ministers and guides were immediately of jesus christ from whom immediately they derive their power and authority , by whom they are set over their charge , in whose name they execute their office , &c. yea pastorship is the gift of christ as well as apostleship ; and every pastor is not immediately called , but the office and order of pastors , the calling , authority and jurisdiction is immediately from christ , not from the church . answ . first , the power of the keyes ( in a right sense given to the church ) tooke effect from the beginning in christs institution , and in the frequent practice of the church , as is shewed before , and therefore this is needlesse to bee proved , that it tooke effect after . secondly , that ministers and guides were immediately from christ , ( if you meane ordinary officers ) and that every pastour is not immediately called , seemes to be a contradiction : the places , act. 28.8 . ephes . 4 8. &c. doe not prove that all officers are immedately from christ , though they bee set in the church by christ and over the church by the holy ghost , &c. this the lord can doe , and doth doe by the meanes of his church walking according to his rule and institution , and therefore you must come at last home to our tenent , ( as here you doe ) that pastorship , the office , power , jurisdiction , &c. annexed to it , is immediately from christ , viz. by his institution in the gospel : but pastors every one that receive this office , hath it from christ , but by his church calling them to the same , and in the name of christ applying it to them : and thus far we agree with you . reply . the steward is appointed of the master of the family alone , and hath all his authority from him . every embassador in the cause of his embassage doth immediately depend upon him from whom he is sent : but if the function , order and authority of pastors and teachers bee immediately from christ , then it is not received from the church as the immediate receptacle . answ . answ . first , though pastors in respect of the exercise of their function dispense the word and other mysteries of christ as from him immediately , and so are fitly compared to embassadors and stewards , yet in the call of the one and other to that work there is a plaine dissimilitude , the one being called mediately , the other immediately by their masters , and therefore in this case it proves nothing . what doth this argument conclude ? if onely that the function and order is not from the church as the first subject , we readily grant it ; if the application of the office to such a person , ( so farre as may bee done by an outward call ) it followes not at all , for the function and office may bee from christ , and the application thereof by the church . reply . thus protestant divines dispute against papists , if bishops receive their power and authority of exercising immediately from christ by mandate , mission and commission from him , then not from the pope , and so for presbyters in regard of the bishop . answ . the reason and ground of that dispute is because the pope claimes a plenitude of power from peter , whence all must ●…ee derived to all bishops , &c. bee they never so orderly chosen and ordained in their owne esteeme , and so indeed usurps the prerogative of christ the head of the church . the like usurpation i●… its degree was in the bishops over presbyters : but here the case is farre different , the church claming no such power , but onely ministeriall in the outward call of officers according to his direction , and so the application of that office unto the persons , which hath sufficient ground of scripture from christ , and therefore we grant the conclusion . viz. that they derive not their power from the people , but from christ : by meanes of the church ministerially and instrumentally applying that office to them , whereunto christ hath annexed that power . lastly the like argument may be objected against any other subject of this power you can or will suppose , even the presbytery it selfe . reply . it is usually obj●…cted that the church cannot convey what she never had : but the people may elect their pastor . whereunto the answer is direct and plaine , nothing can give that it had not formally or vertually , unlesse it give it as an instrument ministring to one that hath it , but so it may give what it never had , nor is capable of . a steward may give all the offices in his masters house as ministerially executing his masters pleasure . answ . this answer doth not satisfie , for wee cannot put off our old principles of reason , that every instrument ministring to the principall cause doth conferre vim ad effectum : and so farre , or in what sense it gives any thing to the effect in that sense , and so farre it must needs have vertually or formally the same in itselfe . if a conduit convey water ministerially from the fountaine to the house , it hath water in such a sense , as it doth concurre to the effect : and so the church cannot give the keys to the officers as an instrument of christ , but it must be granted shee received them from christ vertually to give them to the officer . secondly , for the instance ; if it bee meant of a steward giving the offices to such persons as his master hath named thereunto , and he instals them into the same , the case is not alike yet , here hee must have some power and authority so to doe so that he hath these offices vertually in his hand , but if it be his masters will , he shall choose what persons hee sees fit according to rules given him , ( which is the case here ) then hee hath this power vertually in his hand . reply . thirdly , if ecclesiasticall and spirituall power be in the multitude and community of the faithfull , the church doth not onely call , but make officers out of power and vertue received into her selfe , and then should the church have a true lordlike power in regard of her ministers . reply . answ . if there be any such that hold the church hath so the power of the keyes in her selfe , as that she may derive from her selfe authority to the officers , let such looke unto the conclusion ; as for mr. robinson , though wee doe not approve the sentence you cite out of him , yet we doubt whether you doe not goe beyond his sense & meaning : but according to our sense of this position before layd downe , neither this absurdity of lordship over the officers , nor any others that are instanced in , under this reason doe at all follow ; and they may bee as strongly urged against the presbyteries , classes , synods , catholick church , or any subject of the keyes that can be named : and the objection , viz. that god will have the church choose officers to execute the power committed to her , is so answered in the same page , as will serve us as well as you , viz. god will have her elect officers of his designment ( that is , such as the rule directs her to choose ) to doe his worke according to that power which hee hath given them , and by his direction , and then they are gods servants and not the churches , and receive that charge and function immediatly from god , and not from the people ; wee meane no otherwise then by that outward call instrumentally applying that office unto them ; and in this sense wee close with you herein : and indeed this power of electing officers doth not ever include authority over them whom they chuse , but rather willing subjection unto them , and setting them up to rule ; as when a woman chooseth a husband , she makes him her husband in a sort , but withall her head and ruler ; so when a people choose a major , &c. answ . fourthly , if the power of the keyes be given first and immediatly to the community of the faithfull , what reason can bee alleadged why in defect of officers the church might not rule , feed , bind , loose , preach , and administer sacraments ; or if any faile in office , why shee might not supply that want by her power , for the power of the keys doth containe both authority and exercise , power being given that it may bee exercised , as it is vouchsafed : but the church cannot exercise these acts of rule . ergo. answ . the reason is , because the church hath not received some of the keyes formally but onely vertually , and ( as was said out of parker ) not as a gift absolute but conditionall , that it might bee communicated to the officers . such power as the body of the church hath received formally shee may and doth exercise , as a power of choosing officers , a power of judging in censures , 1 cor. 5.12 . and the like , the power of preaching properly so called & dispensing sacraments , &c. being acts of authority , the church hath them onely vertually , and therefore must choose officers , to whom christ her lord hath given authority in the church . a corporation that by patent from the king hath many priviledges , the power is given to the body incorporated , and so it is the first subject of it , yet many acts cannot be put forth , but by officers duely chosen : and so here . reply . for these reasons ( not to insist on any more ) wee judge the community of the faithfull , not to bee the immediate receptacle of ecclesiasticall authority , and so the power of excommunication , not to belong unto them . answ . by this conclusion it appeares that how ever the author began professedly against us as separatists in this point , yet he followes the cause against mr. parker , with whom hee seemes to be friends . secondly , the power of excommunication may belong to the church or community in respect of a fraternall power of judging , though officiall authority bee not formally given to the church but to the officers . reply . if consent of churches bee asked in this point , to omit others , the churches of scotland speake fully and expresly for us in the second booke of discip . cap. 1. the church as it is taken for them that exercise spirituall functions in the congregation of them that professe the truth , hath a certaine power granted of god according to which it useth a proper jurisdiction , &c. beza de presb. pag. 60. helv. confess . cap. 18. belgick , &c. answ . if consent of the learned , godly , and zealous reformers were asked , a cloud of witnesses might bee produced that hold the church the first subject of the keyes , as fulke , whitaker , parker , peter martyr , musculus and others , besides many of the ancient divines and councells , gerson and the parisian divines well known to the learned concerning quotation of the scottish discipline , the first words lay so weake a foundation as leave the building ready to fall , in these words . the church as it is taken for them that exercise spirituall functions hath a certaine power , &c. but where is the church so taken ? not in all the new testament that can be proved with any solid reason , notwithstanding all wrastling of men to find it out ; but generally for the company of the faithfull , either the universall or particular church ; and this sometime considered with her officers : and divers times as distinguished from them , as acts 14.23 . and 20.13.28 . jam. 5.14 . revel . 2.1.8.12 . &c. but never contra , for the officers distinguished from the church or body of the congregation ; and therefore if the keyes be given to the church , and the plea of the power of the keyes to be given immediatly to the officers be in and under the name of the church , it will fall to the church of the faithfull , if the scripture may judge : indeed among the papists , and so the prelates , the clergy have long got and held possession of the name of the church , but the testament of christ will not beare this foundation , but wee will not trouble the reader farther about humane testimonies . chap. xv. position 6. that none are to bee admitted members but they must promise not to depart or remove unlesse the congregation will give leave . reply . it is one thing abruptly to breake away when and whither they please , and forsake fellowship another thing , not to depart or remove habitation unlesse the congregation will give leave ; also it is one thing mutually to compound and agree , not to depart from each other without consent and approbation , and other to require a promise of all that be admitted into societie that they shall not depart without the churches allowance , if such a promise be required of all members to bee admitted , wee cannot discerne upon what grounds your practise is warranted . answ . wee are still inforced to cleare our answer from mistakes , for it seemes the answer left it doubtfull , whether wee doe not hold the position affirmatively , and in practise require such a promise as a part of our church covenant of all that are admitted , and therefore to cleare the case more fully wee shall first minde the reader with the true meaning of the answer , and then adde what is needfull to take away the scruples ; and first the answer saith , that wee judge it expedient and most according to rule , that brethren should not forsake fellowship , &c. but in removalls approve themselves , &c. now this is farre short of what the position affirmes ; for first , that none are to bee admitted without such a promise , includes a necessity ; the answer speakes onely of expediency and agreeablenesse to rule , not to breake off abruptly . secondly , the position affirmes the necessitie of a promise ; the answer speakes onely of the case in practise , as in many cases besides , for the watch of the church reacheth to such particular acts of which wee make no promise expresse in the entrance . thirdly , the position speakes of the churches leave , the answer acknowledgeth onely that brethren removing should approve themselves to doe that which is lawfull , and take counsell in such weighty affaires . by all which it appeares that wee doe not owne this position , in judgement nor practise , and therefore in effect our answer doth deny the same , and is negative . secondly , if the words of the answer bee not full enough : ( because wee see our brethren here runne upon it as a question if such a promise be required , and mr. rutherford and others take it up as a confessed practise ) wee doe therefore clearely and plainely deny the position and affirme that wee doe not thinke that none are to bee admitted without such a promise ; neither is there any such practise in our admissions of members to require such a promise ; wee onely count such removalls ( especially of families ) an action amongst many others whereunto the watch of the church doth extend , to prevent sinne where there is any just ground of suspition thereof , and to further the best good of such as are under our charge by counsell , prayers , &c. if any minister and people of old acquaintance and deare affection , or any other christians cleaving together in love have privatly resolved or agreed together , not to part from each others in any church , it is the most that wee have taken knowledge of , and wee thinke that hath beene very rare , but for any such publick promise , covenant , or church oath , ( as some straining things to the height have called it ) it is not , nor hath been required or practised amongst us : this being so , there needs no grounds of that which wee practise not . reply . first , you exclude all such as bee not set members from the seales , and yet hinder them from entrance into the church society , because they cannot promise continuance in the place they are resident in for the present ; here we desire to bee satisfied by the word of god by what you require it ▪ &c. answ . first , we deny not but divers may and doe forbeare to joyne because of their unsettlednesse in the place of their present abode . secondly , it may bee in some cases , some may be advised by the counsell of their private friends in a church to forbeare till they be some way setled . but that any are debarred from communion when they desire it , because they cannot promise continuance , ( unlesse other just causes hinder ) it neither suites with our judgement nor practise ; and if any should practise other wayes , wee doe not allow of the same , and therefore it 's needlesse to give you reasons of what we practise not . reply . secondly , it pertaines not to the whole congregation to take notice or bee acquainted with or judge of every particular members removall ▪ may not a servant remove from his master to another congregation , or a father bestow his childe in marriage to one of another congregation , but the whole church must be called to counsell in the matters , &c. when churches grow populous they must bee negligent or weary of such a taske , and for the present to challenge so much authority over one , another is usurpation , &c. answ . if our answer were but attended , such apprehensions of our practise of calling the whole church to counsell in every such case , and all that followes might be spared . for thus we say , wee judge it expedient , &c. that none forsake fellowship and abruptly breake off , &c. this doth not imply a necessity of calling the whole church to counsell in every plaine and easie case ; many times , and for the most part such removals are so plaine and free from suspition of abrupt breaking off or forsaking fellowship , that there is no need of counsell , as in case of servants marriages , &c. and therefore no trouble to the church : and in some removall of families also , the case is cleare , and openly carried in the knowledge of many of the church , none scruple it , and therefore at the first demand of dismission or letters of recommendations , the same are granted : but in removall of some members , and in the manner of the same , there are such difficulties and dangers as neede the prayers and counsell of the officers and whole church , ( as is confessed after ) nor doe wee say , it pertaines to the whole church to bee called to counsell and judge of every particular members removall , for they may approve themselves to the consciences of all mediately by advising with some who may satisfie the rest , if need be . reply . let it be shewed , that ever by divine right , this power was committed to the church , and we will confesse it expedient , but till then , wee thinke the church over rigid , and the members busie bodies , &c. answ . the rule of love whereby wee are bound to exhort , admonish , seeke the edification and good one of another , and that not onely in generall ( as of all christians ) but as members of so neere relation in one church body , who are bound to serve the lord with one shoulder , zeph. 3. ●… . and to uphold the worship of christ therein , as this doth reach to all the actions and wayes of one another , so in a speciall manner to such an action as this i●… : and we thinke this ground is sufficient to satisfie our practice as wee have declared , which may wipe off the aspersion of being rigid or busie-bodies . reply . in the multitude of counsellors is peace , but over-many counsellors oft causeth distractions , and different apprehensions breed delayes . answ . wee grant it may doe so , neither doe wee bring all cases to publike counsell , but the case may bee such as needs the publike counsell of all , and as wee have a gracious promise of the presence of christ in his churches who is the counsellour : so we confesse to his praise , that we finde the judgment of a church of saints in matters orderly carryed , and gathered up from the various gifts of wisedome , grace , and experience of many christians ( when need is ) to be a blessed priviledge of gods people to enjoy , and sanctified oft to the great good of his saints , and being neglected and slighted hath been oft followed with sad events . reply . the nature of your church-covenant inferreth not a necessity of bringing every such businesse to the church ; for you binde your selves mutually to watch one over another , &c. but this essentially tyeth not any man to a perpetuall residence in one place , for then even occasionall absence should be a breach of covenant , without consent of the church . answ . we grant , our church-covenant neither requires every businesse to come to publike counsell , nor perpetuall residence in one place : neither is it so held by us in judgement or practise . reply . you say you bind your selves to no new duties , but in the word of truth , it is not required neither directly nor by consequence , that no member of a church should remove or occasionally bee absent from his habitation before hee have acquainted the church whither he goeth , and on what occasions , &c. answ . it cannot but grieve us to see how the replyer still not content to take all things in the harshest sense , but will also winde in other matters into his discourse , which may make our practise seeme farre more rigid then it is . first , hee urges us as if wee brought all cases of remove and the occasions thereof , as marriages , &c. to the counsell of the whole church . secondly , hee would by consequence inferre the like of occasionall absence ▪ and now hee weaves in that also , as if it were practised by us to require men to acquaint the church with the place whither they goe , and the occasions of their occasionall absence , which is farre from us . reply . and if such businesse must bee determined on the lords day , &c. answ . wee deny not but the best churches through weaknesse and temptation may spend too much time in the most necessary administrations of censures or other affaires : but to possesse the world with such feares upon so little ground may argue the authors charity concerning our wisdome and christian care of the sabbath was not very great . reply . as for the covenant it selfe , &c. but if yee constraine men to meddle with things that belong not to them , and winde them up higher then god , would , and straine every thing to the pitch you seeme here to doe , a godly sober minde may well pause before hee make such a promise . answ . if the authour had not strained and aggravated things beyond our m●…aning in the answer , and our practise , this would not have come to so high a pitch to trouble a sober godly mind ▪ we are perswaded that generally sober godly minds , that have their pride and self-willednesse in any good measure mortified , doe count the yoake of christ ( according to our practise of this point ) to bee both easie and profitable ; neither doe wee require such a promise of any ( as was said ) but if any stumble at the fourth branch of the first reason from the nature of the covenant , let us a little here cleare that scruple : when wee reason from the nature of the covenant , and branch our reason into foure things , it is not to bee so taken , as if every one of those foure things were made a distinct promise in our solemne covenant , for the fourth i●… but an inference from the three former , as is easie to observe and indeed it was never made by us a part of the covenant or a distinct promise of it , either in our judgement or practise . if because we extend our watch to the removals of brethren , it be taken for granted that we require such a promise ; it will no more follow , then that we require promises in admissions in a thousand cases to which our watch also extends . reply . if any shall not middle with every businesse of this kinde , as questioning whether it doe belong to him or no , or not aske the advise of the whole societie , as knowing the most bee unfit to counsell in such a case , doth hee breake his covenant therein , and so commit a sinne in a sort like the sinne of ananias and saphira ? iudge your selves if in other cases you would not censure this to bee an high incroachment upon christian libertie , and a strict binding of mens consciences by humane constitutions . answ . to extend our watch so farre as hath been said unto these cases of removalls from a church , to prevent sinne in abrupt breaking off and forsaking fellowship , and to prevent the hurt and damage which the sheepe of christ oft fall into in their unadvised breaking out of the fold the lord hath placed them in , and to further their best good in their removalls ; whatever is thought of it , wee count it no breach of christian liberty , but a priviledge of the saints to bee under such a watch , and therefore if any shall neglect any duty that one owes to another , ( so farre as it tends necessarily to those ends ) wee may well reckon it as a neglect of our covenant ; but because it is offensive to compare this with the sinne of ananias , &c. wee intreat our reverend brethren and the christian reader to consider , that in the answer , this stands in the third thing noted in the nature of the covenant , and hath reference to the duties of the covenant in generall , and is not applyed to this particular case by us , nor well appliable in the manner here expressed . secondly , it is moderated in the answer which saith ( in some sort hee shall commit that sinne . ) if these things doe not satisfie , wee wish it expunged , or any other seeming harshnesse , rather then offence be given to any . lastly , that you may not impute unto us the infringement of christian liberty herein , wee would acquaint all men with these two things . first , that removals from one towne and church to another and from full to new plantations , are frequently practised amongst us , with consent and approbation . secondly , that wee finde in experience , that as there is in sheepe a wandring disposition , so in this large wildernesse , ( wherein the lord hath exercised his people with various temptations , by liberties , by offers of large outward accommodations , by wants and straights , by various opinions vented by satan and his instruments , &c. ) in these respects the sheepe of christ are so subject many times to outrunnings , that wee finde more then ordinary need of care and wisedome in this point of our watch in many cases ; and many that have broke loose from the counsels of their officers , friends , and of the church , have deepely smarted for it ; how said a case is it when some brainsicke master of a family , transported with a fancy , an odde opinion , will needs carry his whole family with himselfe to the griefe and hazard of his godly wife and hopefull children , &c. from all ordinances of christ to a people full of fanaticall errours ! were it christian liberty , or dangerous licenciousnesse to leave such a man to his owne counsels , and not meddle with him ? reply . may you not heare from your owne grounds , that herein you have devised an expedient or necessary rite or custome to prevent the dissolution of the body , which never came into ●…he minde of the lord jesus the saviour of his body , and in so doing ( if your exposition hold good ) you break the second commandement ; and to presse customes onely expedient for the time as standing rules necessary for all times and all persons , to put that authority into the hands of men which god never put upon them , to obliege men to meddle in the affaires of men beyond warrant , to binde consciences under so heavy a penalty as that of ananias and saphira , where god hath not bound them , to debarre approved christians from the seales , because they cannot promise as setled members to abide in the society ▪ and yet charge them as men that against light refuse subjection to the gospel , this is that which wee cannot approve , which yet wee suspect will follow from your judgement , and desire to bee resolved in your practise . answ . here is a greater heape of heavy criminations gathered together and cast upon us , upon very weake grounds , upon mistakes , suspitions , and ( wee feare ) too much credulitie given to some clamorous persons , returning to england , and too little credit given to our true relations and faithfull professions : most of these have beene cleared in the former passages where wee met with them , and wee marvell how they come in so twisted together here againe ; wee shall here onely cleare our selves of the first , and referre the reader to their proper places to see our answer to the others . here it is imputed unto us that wee have devised a rite to preserve the unity and prevent the dissolutions of the body , which wee conceive is intended of this promise of not removall without leave , which promise is not required of us nor made in our church covenant , ( as wee have said ) and the ground of this imputation is also a meere mistake arising from the confounding of a second answer to the objection against our first reason , with the second reason of our practise , which are distinct and have a different scope , for whereas some might object , that this reason from the covenant , holds with such as grant such a covenant lawfull , the answer saith that some indeed question the necessitie of it : but wee hope you doe not question the lawfulnesse , and thereupon the answer first gives reasons and proofes of the lawfulnesse of it . and secondly , for the necessitie which is taken from the nature of all societies incorporate , which by a fundamentall rule , doe require of all that enter into them , and partake of the priviledges thereof , to conforme to all such lawfull rites and orders as are expedient for the well being of that society ; the contrary whereof would bee injurious to him to offer , and confusion in them to accept ; and from hence it easily followes , that a church being a body of a people injoying priviledges together , it is necessary fundamentally that they should bee joyned in some promise or covenant , which covenant ( though in civill societies it may consist in rites and orders devised by themselves for their good ) yet in the church which is the body of christ , this covenant is no other but to performe the duties required in the gospel towards god and one another , without any rites or order , devised by themselves , as wee professed in setting forth the nature of the covenant ; and this being the true scope of those words , let any judge what ground is given by us of such an imputation of devising rites , &c. neither doth the second reason in the answer give any ground of this imputation ; for though it dispute from the necessary ruine of the church , and all churches , if it were lawfull for any member when , whither and wherefore hee please to depart from the church without consent : yet there is not one syllable that gives an hint of any rite , custome or order devised by us , to prevent the same , but for the avoyding thereof wee still wholly and onely bind our selves to the rule of the word , to direct , order , and reforme all actions of this nature , and to shew unto men whether they may lawfully remove or not remove , not requiring any expresse promise to the contrary in this particular no more then in others ; and thus wee hope wee have resolved you of our practise , as you desired . to conclude this passage , give us leave without offence to say thus much . although ( through the grace of christ ) we desire humbly to submit to this part of our tryall , even to goe through evill report as well as good , yea all the reproaches and cruell mockings of the world , knowing that wee have deserved much more from the hand of that god without whose providence a tongue could not move against us ▪ yet wee cannot but account is one of our poorest afflictions to suffer in this kind , from the pens or tongues of our dearly beloved brethren , for whom wee daily pray , and to whom wee hope wee shall never bee ▪ provoked to returne any other language then savouring of love and respect . but wee must confesse wee meet with so many sore criminations , ( oft upon meere mistakes ) cast not onely upon our selves , but the truth and wayes of god , which wee professe , and that both by this learned author and some others , that wee cannot be so senselesse of the dishonour is reflected upon the truth of god herein , as wholly to bee silent , and groane out the griefe of our spirits to him that knoweth our hearts : wherefore wee humbly beseech all our godly brethren , to beare with us a little , if after all the harsh passages of this reply , such an heape of accusations as are here throwne upon us , move us to present to the reader a short view of such things as are unjustly and ungroundedly cast upon us , and which wee cannot but thinke hath drawne a black cloud over the glory of the holy discipline of christ which hee hath here set up among us . to omit the generall frame of this reply , in presenting our opinions and wayes to the people as if wee concurred generally with those of the rigid separation , and differed almost in every thing from such godly brethren as have breathed after puritie of ordinances and reformation . to omit also the frequent inserting of such termes unto our questions and arguments contrary to the true state thereof , which render every thing harsh and full of rigidnesse to the eares of the reader as have been observed by us . and omitting also divers other suppositions and objections , we shall onely desire those who have taken up evill thoughts concerning these churches and the wayes of christ wee walke in from this reply , to note these particular imputations in this short chapter , and upon what grounds they are built . as page 79. that wee hinder men from entrance into church society , because they cannot promise continuance in the place , and running upon this straine he saith : was it ever heard of in the church of god from the beginning thereof unto this day , that any such thing was propounded unto and required of members , to bee admitted into church fellowship ? here is a loud outcry , and who would not think but that we usually propound and require such a thing in our admissions , ( which yet is nothing so . ) but what is the ground of all this ? looke a little before and hee saith , if such a promise be required . againe ibidem saith hee , wee thinke the church is over-rigid in exacting such a condition of the members , and the members goe beyond their measure as busie bodies , and what is the ground ? it followes , if they arrogate such a power to themselves . so page next 80. in the word it is not commanded that no member should remove or occasionally be absent from the place of his habitation before he have acquainted the congregation whither he goeth , on what occasion , &c. to what end is this inserted if not to suggest that there is such a practise among us that a man may not occasionally be absent , &c. which is far from us ? and what is the ground see a few lines after , the church shall burthen herselfe , &c. if shee take upon her to intermeddle in all such occasions . and immediatly after , wee feare the time appointed for religious exercises should bee profaned by unseasonable disputes . but what is the ground of this feare conceived and published to the world , viz. if such businesses must bee determined on the lords day ? and that before the ordinances , &c. because it seemes robinson in case of some notorious obstinate offender , would have some censure passed to prevent pollution of an ordinance ; and is this ground sufficient ? againe in the same page ( for these things are thick sowne ) herein , saith he , you have devised an expedient or necessary rite or custome to preserve unity , &c. but if you seeke a ground it will bee found a mistake , as is shewed before , and contrary to the expresse profession of the answer , that wee promise no new duties , but onely such as the gospell requires of all saints in church order , much lesse doe wee set up new rites and customes . and as if all these particular imputations in the compasse of one leafe were two little , page next 81. wee have a whole catalogue gathered together from other places and this , that by laying things together the odium raised might stick the deeper : for thus the words are , but to presse customes expedient for the time as standing rules , necessary at all times and all persons ; to put authority in the hands of men which god never put upon them , and to oblige them to intermeddle ; to bind the consciences of men , and that upon so heavy a penaltie as the sinne of ananias and saphira , where god hath not bound it ; to de●…arre knowne christians from the seales , because they cannot promise so abide in the church at setled members ; and yet charge them in the meane season against light to refuse subjection to the gospel . concerning all which wee doe not know any of them to be true , not approve any such thing in any , if it should be found among us . and what is the ground of all this ? truely weake enough ( as hath been shewed in our discourse ) and here it is the suspicion of the author , for thus hee adds , this is that wee cannot approve , and yet wee suspect will follow from your judgement . these things wee have thus briefly presented in one view not to dishonour the learned and reverend author , whose memory wee honour ; two things we charitably take notice of , to remove over hard thoughts of him : first , wee consider his spirit might bee over grieved and provoked to this harshnesse by the withdrawings of many christians from the ordinances of god because dispensed according to the corrupt liturgy , in which cause he stood too farre ingaged , and supposing new-england wayes the cause of it , he was the more sharpe . secondly , wee consider that this reply was not intended by him to be published to the world , but to be sent unto us , and therefore he is in our hearts the lesse blamable . but seeing these things are now published , and the harshnesse thereof may do much hurt , wee were pressed to cleare our selves , wherein if any thing reflect upon the author or publishers , wee cannot avoyd it . neither doe wee write thus as if wee would wholly justifie our selves and all the particular miscarriages that happily at one time or other , in some church or other may have happened ; we have much cause to humble our selves before our god and abase our selves to the dust before men , for all the weakenesses , sinnes , errors and miscarriages that have beene found among us , in one kind and another . onely this wee may professe before the lord and his people , that in the maine scope of our hearts and indeavours of our lives wee have sought after such a forme of worship , and frame of discipline , as we could conceive by the word of god and the helpe of the best reformers to bee according to the will of christ , not allowing our selves in any evill discovered unto us , but bewayling our great defects in all . reply . and here wee crave leave to put you in mind of what you have considered already ▪ that the church and every member have entered into covenant , to take god for their god , &c. but wee never finde that they were called to give account of the worke of grace wrought in their soules , or that the whole congregation were to bee judge thereof . you stand here all this day ( saith moses ) before the lord your god , &c. that thou shouldest enter into covenant with the lord thy god. all that were borne in the wildernesse joshua circumcised , but it is uncredible to thinke there was none that did not give good testimony of the worke of grace , &c. because it is a principall thing , especially in the builders of the church , to know their materials , and because the reverend and learned author steps somewhat out of his way to call us to give answer in this controversie of such great weight , ( especially in this present turne of times ) wee shall therefore gladly accept of this occasion to declare our selves , with as much brevity as we may , to the two branches of the question . qu. first , whether the members of the church are called to give an account of the worke of grace at there admission thereunto . answ . 1 secondly , whether the whole church is to be judge hereof . whether the members of the church be called , &c. for answer to which wee shall expresse our selves in these particulars , to prevent mistakes . first , that the question is not of what may keepe a church already constituted from being accounted no church , but of what is to bee required of such as joyne unto a church , for a church may bee a true church , and yet be very corrupt , ( as is generally observed by protestant writers , both out of the examples of some churches in the new testament , and that of the old in the great apostasie thereof ) wee thinke ( in this same ) doctor fields expressions may be safely received : some professe christ ( saith hee ) but not wholly and intirely , as heretiques : some professe the whole saving truth , but not in unity , as schismatiques : some professe it in unty , but not in sincerity , as prophaine persons and hypocrites : some in unity and sincerity : all these are partakers of the heavenly calling by profession of the truth , and consequently in some degree and sort the church &c. but ( wee thinke that ( this is no argument , that either heretiques , schismatickes , prophane persons , or hypocrites ( if convictively discovered that such are meet matter to be joyned to a church . secondly , when a worke of grace is required and desired of those who are to joyne to a church , the meaning is not as if wee allowed none to ●…ee of the church , but reall saints , and such as give demonstrative evidence of being members of the invisible church ; for we professe ( according to the scripture and generall doctrine of all reformed churches ( what ever their practise bee ) that it is not reall , but visible faith , not the inward being , but the outward profession of faith , ( whence men are called visible saints ) that constitutes a visible church , which faith so professed is called visible , not in the judgement of certainty , from such infallible signes of it , as may demonstrate the hidden being of it within ; but in the judgement of charity which hopes the best . ( ●… cor. 12 7 ) in the weakest christian and meanest profession , even when it sometimes feares the worst , and is not able at the present , to convince the contrary . thirdly this judgment of charity ( concerning the truth of anothers profession , or that which is called the worke of grace ) is to be regulated by the word , which christ hath left as a compleat rule , not onely of faith but also of love , and charity to guide both in their acts unto their ends : and hence large professions and long relations of the worke of grace ( though full of exceeding glory , when humbly and prudently made ) wee exact not rigorously and necessarily of all , because the rule of charity directs us not so to judge ; because many christians may bee drawne to christ , and have a seed of faith , yet may sometimes not know it , sometimes remember not the working of it , sometimes ( through bashfulnesse , feare , want of parts , nor not trained up under a knowing ministery ) not be able to professe it so fully and clearely ; hence also to keepe out others from communion out of groundlesse feares , that all their profession might bee in hypocrisie , wee allow not , because no man in his charity is to bee ruled by his feares , but by the word ; hence also to account any unfit for the church , because their hearts cannot close with them , or because they like not their spirits , speake not with favour or any such like principles , and yet can give no rule or convicting argument from the word , why thus they doe , we thinke is rigour , not charity regulated by the word ; for humane charity doth not make gods church , but such persons which from god according to the rule of gods charity , is to receive , and therefore the rule is to be attended here : it is necessary to looke for a ground of certainty to faith , but not for charity , which cannot bee infallibly certaine of anothers estate , and therefore upon a hopefull supposition that the premises their profession is true , hopefully onely makes the conclusion . the question ●…eing brought to this narrow , it will here lye , viz. first , whether profession of the worke of grace , and faith be not required of those that enter into the church . secondly , with what profession of the worke of grace , charity ( according to a rule ) is to rest satisfied . the first wee thinke is writ with the beames of the sunne , for it is evident , that neither the lord in the old testament , exod. 19. or in the new testament , acts 2. and in other like scriptures , did call for a profession of the doctrine of faith onely , but especially of the worke of faith ; for when the lord promised to be a god to his people , exd. 19. deut. 29. it was not with this condition ▪ if they did beleeve his word to bee true , &c. but if they will heare his voyce , and keepe his covenant , which ( in a prepared people ) is a manifestation of a worke of grace . so when the apostles were required to goe preach to all nations , and baptize them and teach them , looke as they did require such a faith as was saving , ( he that beleeveth shall bee saved ) so upon the profession thereof they did receive them , as also appeares , acts 2.38 . ( which therefore could not bee of the doctrine of faith , for that the devils doe , and tremble , and profane men of much knowledge , may doe , and yet unfit to bee received , and therefore it was of the worke of faith , and therefore act. 8.37 . philip not onely requires faith , but a beleeving with all the hear●… of the eunuch , and upon such a profession baptized him : and hence the churches erected by the apostles at corinth , colosse , ephesus , &c. are called saints , and sanctified of god in christ jesus , &c. how ! was it because debito and de jure onely , they should be so ? then all who heare the gospell ( though they reject it ) might bee called a church , for de jure , they ought to be so ; or was it because there were some that were truely such amongst them , and so in concreto , are called a church and body of christ ? not onely so , for there may be some visible churches of visible saints , and yet none among them of the invisible church , unlesse any will thinke , that to bee of the church invisible is essentiall to the beeing and title of a visible church : and therefore it was from their profession of saving faith which they maintained being a church , as it was required to the gathering into a church : john baptist also , ( though hee baptized none into a new church , ( and therefore might require the lesse ) yet as he really promised remission of sinnes by the messiah , so hee required that very faith and repentance which might make them partakers of this heavenly benefit ; and therefore , if what hee required , they manifested by their profession , and confession of sinnes , it was not onely to beleeve the doctrine of faith , but a saving worke of faith which they held forth . and therefore it is not an outward profession of faith , according to a creed which is required , for then a papist is fit matter for a church , nor willingnesse to heare the word and receive the sacraments , for then heapes of prophane persons are to bee received into the church , but it 's profession of a worke , and saving worke of grace , which being ever required in the purest times , is no novell invention of some more rigidly inclined in these things . to the second , with what profession ( charity , according to rule ) is to rest satisfied ? wee answer , that there is a breadth in charity according to rule and profession of faith being but testimonium humanum , or a mans owne testimony concerning himselfe , therefore as in the most eminent profession , potest s●…besse salsum , there may bee hypocrisie latent , ( it being no divine testimony ) so in the weakest profession of the worke of faith , potest subesse verum , idest , there may be truth in the bottome : hence ( man leaving all secrets to god ) the worke of grace wherewith charity is to be satisfied , is one of these two . first , either with that which is onely verball , and appeares to be false by conviction from the word : or secondly , with that which appeares to bee reall , which however it may bee false , yet it is beyond the power of man to convince ( by a rule ) that so it is . we confesse wee are fearefull as of opening the doore too wide , so of shutting the doores upon any whom god would have us to receive in , but for what yet wee see or read , from the arguments here alledged in this author , or the writings of others godly learned : wee thinke that church charity is not to rest satisfied with the first , but with the latter ; for let the profession of the worke of faith bee never so short , or so weake , let it be by their owne immediate relation or by question , yet if it may but appeare to a regulated charity so as to hope that is is reall , it is to rest satisfied then , till god make discovery to the contrary ; wee intend not to heape up arguments , nor answer scruples but these foure things seem●… to ●…vince as much . 1 that the apostles in the 3000. converted acts ●… ▪ as they were very ready to receive them to the fold of christ , and therefore in one day immediatly received so many thousands ( which could not bee by large profession of every one ) so also they attended to the truth of that profession , and therfore it was not bare profession of faith , but ( as it is set downe for our patterne ) it was such a profession as was evidently joyned with humiliation , pricking at the heart , mourning , and crying out before the apostles what shall wee doe to be saved , gladly receiving the word , which are reall testimonies of some reall change from what they were but a little before , and upon this ground the apostles received them . 2 the apostles charge to timothy , 2 tim. 3.5 . from such as have a forme of godlinesse and deny the power of it , turne away ; if bar●… profession were sufficient , why should timothy turne from them ? ( but rather receive them who had a forme of profession . ) and if it was in his power to avoyd them , why should he not reject them , and that not onely from private but church communion also , supposing them such as not one●…y had a forme , but might be by a rule convinced thereof ? 3 lying and apparent untruth cannot make a man ▪ fit matter for a church , and therefore cannot bee a ground for charity to rest on , that so he is : but verball profession , which appeares not to bee reall but false , is palpable lying , and indeed more fit to destroy the church then to make the church . hence sanctius in zach. 14.14 observes that the greatest enemies of the church are such , qui cum fidem retineant sanctitatem abjecerunt . 4 if bare profession of faith is a sufficient ground to receive men into the church , then an excommunicate person cast out in one houre should bee immediatly received in againe , if hee will but renew his generall profession of faith ; nay then the indians in maryland , who will put on and put off this profession , as their ghostly fathers the popish priests will bestow or withhold garments and shirts upon them ; should in charitie bee received into the church . but if it should bee asked how charity may know the reality of this profession , we answer ; so long as the rule bee attended wee leave every one to the wisedome of christ , to make application thereof , onely this we doe add in generall for more full satisfaction . 1 such a faith professed with the mouth , which is confirmed by an innocent godly conversation in the life , so as not to live in commission of any knowne sinne , or omission of any knowne duty , wee say this conversation makes faith appeare reall , james 2.18 . rev. 22.14 . wee conceive more is required to make a man appeare a fit member of a church , then of a common-wealth , to bee onely bonus civis , and bare civility is sufficient for this latter , but not for the former , and therefore such a profession of faith is needfull , as is confirmed by a not onely a civill , but a godly life . 2 such a faith as is joyned with evident repentance , and sorrow , and mourning for sinne ( although there bee no experience alwayes of such a holy life antecedently seene ) for thus it was act. 2.37 , 38. for the riches of christs grace is such as not onely to receive experienced christians into his family and house , but also the weakest and poorest ( who may stand in most need of christs ordinances ) and that as soone as ever they seeme to bee brought in ; and therefore experience of a blamelesse life is not alwayes necessary for admission into the church : some think indeed that the apostles received in the first converts , ( act. 2.39 . ) so soone , because they had an extraordinary spirit of discerning , but if they had so : yet they did not receive them in here according to that , for they received divers hypocrites in , as ananias and sapphira , &c. and if all other of their acts in this chapter were exemplary , why should this onely bee thought to be otherwise and extraordinary ? 3 when there is full and sufficient testimony from others of their faith and piety , although their humiliation , faith and conversation bee not so well knowne , for wee see the church received paul , when barnabas had declared what god had done for him ; and if it may bee just to condemne another by the testimony of two faithfull witnesses , it may not bee unchristian to receive an other into the fold of christ ( much more readily ) upon the testimony of able and faithfull christians , especially then when they be not able openly , and publiquely ro speake so fully for themselves , and thus much for answer to the first question 2 question , whether this profession is to bee judged by the church . answer , 1. the faithfull as they did at first combine into a church , so it is their duty to receive others to themselves , as the church did , acts 9.26 , 27. encouraged by barnabas and the apostles , and as the apostle commands , rom. 14.1 . which although it was of fellow-members into their affections , yet the proportion holds strong for receiving commers into the church . joh. ep. 3.8 , 9 , 10. 2 if they bee to receive them , they must by some meanes know them , to bee such as they may comfortably receive into their affections , a little leaven leavening the whole lumpe . 1 cor. 5. 3 the officers of the church , ( who are first privately to examine them ) and prepare them for admission ) are to shew the church the rule on which the church is to receive them , and themselves are ready to admit them . act. 10.37 . can any forbid water , &c. this rule was best seene by that publike profession before the whole church , and if no just exception bee made ( as none should bee without conviction ) they are to be admitted by the officers with the consent of the members hereunto , for if publike profession is needfull at least before the church , though not the world alway ( as didoclavius observes ) to the entrance into the covenant and church by baptisme ; wee see no reason , but persons formerly baptized , and entering anew into the church , but they should openly professe their faith againe : the visible church being built upon this rocke , matth. 16.16 , 18. viz. profession of the faith of christ ; and lastly , if there should be no necessity for such a profession , yet if this bee desired of the people of god , for the increase of their owne joy to see god glorified , and christs name professed , and his vertues held forth , and for the increase of their love to those that joyne with them , why should it not be done before saints , which should bee done before persecutors ? 1 pet. 3.15 . what is now said , we thinke sufficient to undermine what is opposed herein by others , and may easily give answer to the three arguments of the learned authour●… , from the example of the church of israel , john baptist and the apostles , and so cleare up our practise , and judgement to the world from the aspersion of our rigidum examen for which we are by some condemned , but for further clearing , we shall answer to the particulars . now to your reasons more particularly against this from the old testament , and the manner of entring and renewing covenant then . answ . wee answer , first , when as you say , they professing the covenant promised to take god for their god , to keepe the words of the covenant and doe them , to seek the lord with all their hearts , to walke before him in truth and uprightnes , this implyeth a profession of a worke of grace . secondly , they did not immediately enter into covenant , but the lord was long before preparing them for it , for they were humbled much in egypt , in so much as their sighings came up to god , exod. 2.23 , 24 , 25. they had seene the glory of god for their good against pharaoh , and all that land , by many miracles , they had gods visible presence in the cloud ; were instructed by moses concerning the covenant of grace made with them in abraham ; they were mightily delivered at the red sea , so that they beleeved moses and feared the lord and sang his praise , exod. 14.31 . psalme 106.12 . they were also instructed againe concerning the covenant , and were to sanctifie themselves three dayes legally , ( which was for spirituall ends , and of spirituall use , exod. 19.10 . ) and thus being prepared as fit matter for covenant , they then entered thereinto . and they were all of them ( for ought we know ) thus externally and ecclesiastically holy , though many were internally stiffe-necked , blind and prophane . and for our parts we desire no more then such a preparation in some worke of grace , if appearing ( though not indeed ) reall as may make way for church covenant , among a people now as we see was then . reply . when john baptist began to preach the gospell , and gather a new people for christ , he admitted none but upon confession of their sinnes , but we read of no question that hee put forth to them to discover the worke of grace in their soules , or repelled any upon that pretence that voluntarily submitted themselves . answ . though the scripture record such things very briefly , ( else the world would not have contained the bookes that must have beene written , as john speaketh , ) yet he that advisedly considers the case , may see the profession of a work of grace in all that were received by john to his baptisme . first , john was sent with the spirit and power of elias , to turne the hearts of the fathers , &c. to cast down every high hill , &c. secondly , his baptisme is called the baptisme of repentance , for the remission of sinnes , mark. 1.4 . thirdly , confession of sins is ever put for true repentance , when there is a promise of pardon made to it , prov. 28 . 1●… . 1 john 1.9 . and therefore when he requires confession of sins , was it without remorse or sorrow for it ? was it not with profession of faith in the messiah , which he pointed unto , joh. 1.29 . and required with repentance , act. 19.4 . fourthly , did not hee fall upon the pharisees with dreadfull thundering of gods judgements , for comming to his baptisme without conversion of heart , and fruits meet for repentance ? mat. 3.7 . and this luke saith , hee preached to the multitude , luke 3.7 . and whether any were received that embraced not that doctrine , and shewed the same in their confession , viz. that their hearts were humbled , and that the renounced their high thoughts of their priviledges of the law , &c. and professed amendment & fruits meet for the same , it will be hard for any to prove : and thus much is evident : on the contrary that pharesees & lawyers distinguished from the people and publicans rejected the counsell of god in not being baptized of him , and what counsell but that wholesome doctrine of john , luke 7.29 , 30 ? lay all these together , and let any whose thoughts are not prepossessed with prejudices , say , whether this confession was not such a profession of faith and repentance , which a discerning charity ought to take for a worke of grace . reply . it appeares many wayes that when the apostles planted churches , they made a covenant betweene god and the people whom they received . but they received men upon the profession of faith , and promise of amendment of life , without strict inquiry what worke of grace was wrought in the soule , so in after ages , &c. now the profession at first required of all that were received to baptisme , was that they beleeved in the father , sonne and holy ghost . this was the confession of the en●…uch , when he was baptized : i beleeve that jesus christ is the son of god. answ . wee cannot but observe how still the evidence of the truth of what wee proved in the third and fourth positions , breakes out at every turne , when the heat of that disputation doth not hinder , for if the apostles planted churches and made a covenant betweene god and the people when they baptized them , as the proofes for this act. 2.38 ▪ and 8.37 . and 19.17 , 18 , 19. alledged in the margent shew , then still it appeares they admitted men into planted churches when they baptized them , and the refore the apostles ordinary and first leading practise and examples are for those position , not against them . 2 you grant here that acts 2. and 8. and 19. there was a profession of faith and promise of amendment of life , and so wee must suppose though not expressed , for how else could the apostles distinguish such as gladly received the word , from the mockers and others ? now let us consider what kinde of profession this must bee by the story it selfe . the apostle peter in his doctrine presseth three things . 1. conversion or repentance for their sinnes ▪ 2. faith in christ in those words , bee baptized in the name of the lord jesus christ , verse 38. 3. with many other words he exhorted them , saying , save your selves from this untoward generation , that is , this was the scope of and substance of his exhortation , which includes a gathering themselves to the church . now the text saith , in respect of the first , that they were pricked to the heart ▪ and cryed out men , and brethren what shall wee doe ? 2. they gladly received the word , that is of faith in christ , and the duty of obedience to the gospell , and how did all this appeare , but by their profession ? and what kinde of confession can any man think ▪ such soules would make , but a broken hearted gracious confession , which to any discerning charity must be taken to argue a worke of grace ? so that the very character given of them by the holy ghost , in so briefe an history , doth cleerely evince what we contend for . consider also the story , acts 8. and first , not to passe over what is said of simon magus , of whom it is said , hee beleeved , was baptized , continued with philip , and wondered , so that no doubt they took him for a true beleever , but when peter discovered his falsnesse , see what hee saith , verse 21. thou b●…st no part nor lot in this matter , and the reason is , for thy heart is not right in the sight of god. let any here consider , that if hee had no part nor lot in christ and baptisme , &c. because not right , whether the apostle peter or the church would have received him , if such had been discovered before . and for the eunuch , philip requiring his profession of faith , if thou beleevest with all thy heart , looked for a sound worke of grace , and though it was delivered in those words which are the fundamentall truth , that jesus is the sonne of god , yet it includes true faith in him for salvation : as we see our saviour christ takes that confession of peter for true faith , flesh and blood have not revealed th●… to thee , but my father : and promised to build the church on this rocke , matth. 16. yea it includes subjection unto him as the sonne of god , the prophet and king of his church , and this is no rare , but a common thing in the new testament , by one fundamentall truth , beleeved and confessed , to include true faith and profession of the whole truth that suites with that foundation , as rom. 10.9 . so expounded , verse 10 , 11. as being more then historicall faith , so 1 john ●… . 1 , 2. and 5.1 . the like characters of a penitent and gracious carriage and confession may be observed , act. 19.17 , 18 , 19. and seeing you have given us this occasion to lay downe some grounds of our practise from the first patternes , we shall add a word or two to take away the conceit of novelty , which is imputed to us in this point as much as in any thing else . tertullian saith in his booke of prescriptions , wee admit no man to any disputation about divine things , unlesse hee first have shewed us of whom he received the faith and became a christian ; and secondly , whether hee admit and hold the generall principles , wherein all christians doe and ever did agree , otherwise proscribing against him as an alien from the common-wealth of israel . and if in those times they were so strict in admitting men to disputations , no doubt much more in receiving men to church communion . but if this seeme not full enough , take another : in the churches of old , there were catechumeni , instructed for enterance into the church by baptisme , with whom they tooke much paines in sanctifying them , before ; by fasting and prayer , and often preaching to them . and for their admission , there were foure things in use among them , 1. nominis professio , 2. scrutinium , 3. abrenuntiatio , 4. fidei professio . their scrutinium which they call examen competentium , or the examination of such as were competent , or fitting for admission , this examen was very strict as is observed out of alcuinus , by learned chamier , fiant scrutinia , ut explorentur saepius , an post renuntiationum satanae , sacra verba datae fidei radicitus corde defixerint , i. e. let examinations be made , that if oft may bee tryed , whether they have deeply fixed in the heart the sacred words of their professed faith . and what ever any may thinke of the strictnesse of that their discipline , in this point chamier gives a large testimony , by way of approbation of the same , whose words upon it are these , certe nemo it ●…are potest , seriam in tam sanctis rebus diligentiam , ne quantum fieri poterit lateant simones , &c. i. certainely no man can disallow such serious diligence , to prevent pro●…anation of sacred things , lest ( so farre as it is possible ) such as simon magus may lye hid : and saith hee , the apostles went before in their examples , for philip , acts 8. being demanded of the eunuch , what hinders mee that i may not bee baptized ? hee answereth not simply thou mayst , but with this supposition added , if thou beleevest with thy whole heart . now this profession of their faith was either by reciting the creed in an eminent place before all the people , and that praeclarâ fiduciâ , with full affiance , as hee observes out of clement and augustine , or else respondendo interroganti sacerdoti per singula in subsidium forte pudoris aut memoriae , i. e. by answering to the minister propounding questions , concerning their faith for helpe of their bashfulnesse , or want of memory . also beza in his epist . 14. commending much the severity and zeale of former pastors and churches in this kind , and bemoaning the negligence of such as followed , from whence hee saith it is , that the church without a miracle could not rise out of its filth , he concludes thus , itaque frustra disputabitur tum voce tum scriptis , nisi conversione cordium & 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 initium instaurationis sum●…tu●… . reverend mr. hildersam in his treatise of the doctrine of the lords supper , to that question , whether the people that come to the lords table , bee bound to make knowne their knowledge and spirituall estate to their pastor . answers thus , yes verily , for seeing , matth. 3.6 . acts 8.37 . god required of them , that ( being of yeares of discretion ) were to bee baptized , that they should make knowne to the congregation or their minister their , faith and repentance , hee doth every whit as much require this of them that are to come to the lords supper . whereby we see , 1. that his judgement was that , act. 8. and mat. 3. the people did make known their spirituall estate to the congregation or minister , when they professed faith and repentance : and secondly , that the same ought now so to bee . lastly , we may appeale herein to the consciences of very many godly ministers , in our deare england , whether they groane not under the mixture of the precious with the vile , in the ordinances of christ , and would not gladly have it otherwise , which cannot bee without such a way of admissions into the church as we plead for , or else in constituted ( but corrupted ) churches , by casting out such as after admonitions appeare impenitent in sin , by the severity of discipline . and this was evident by the qualifications of persons to be received to the lords table , voted at first by the present reverend assembly , and presented in their directory to the parliament , if wee bee not mis-informed : whose words are these , none are to bee admitted thereto ( meaning the lord suppers ) but such as being baptized are found upon carefull examination by the minister , before the other church-officers , to have a competent measure of knowledge and ability to examine themselves , and professe their willingnesse to submit themselves to all the ordinances of christ , and are of approved conversation according to christ : the ignorant and scandalous are not to bee admitted , nor those of another congregation , unlesse they have sufficient testimony or be very well knowne . if it bee objected , that some of these instances concerne unbaptized persons onely , which is not our case ; answ . 1. multitude of baptized persons in these dayes are as ignorant and prophane as some unbaptized ; and therefore as apt to pollute gods ordinances : 2. chamiers reason , why unbaptized persons were to go under such strict examination , holds good in our case . 3. such profession of faith was required by john and the apostles of those that were church members before . reply . the creed is honored by the ancients with glorious titles , as the rule of faith , &c. by which they understood that rule of faith given by christ , when hee was about to ascend , and commanded his disciples , saying , goe teach al nations . in after times some articles were added for explanation , to meet with the heresies of those times , but for substance , the church never required other acknowledgement , &c. answ . if you meane that which is called the apostles creed , it is justly doubted whether it bee so ancient , however , the times which followed the scripture patterns , are both obscure to us , and no infallible pattern , yet many churches used great strictnesse , as is shewed , in receiving and restoring fallen members , and if afterward heresies gave just occasion to require further professions of the doctrine of faith , and to add more articles for explanation , why may not the churches require a more explicate confession of the work of faith and repentance , the formality and meere outside profession of so many civilists , formalists , and atheists requiring the same ? reply . if you put man to declare that worke of grace ▪ god hath wrought in this or that way , which perhaps is not determined by the word of grace , at least not agreed upon amongst your selves , wee beseech you to consider by what authority you doe it , and upon what ground you stand . answ . this is but upon a supposition , if so &c. which is contrary to our judgement , and professed practise to limit the spirit of grace in the workings of it . if any have so done , ( as it may bee in the times of opinions prevailing among us ) wee doe not owne it , but disapprove the same . it is enough for us to see any have some way , or by some meanes or other beene humbled for sinne , brought home to christ by faith , or have any breathings of the spirit of christ , with a life answerable to the faith of christ . chap. xvi . position 7. that a minister is so a minister of a particular congregation , that if they dislike him or leave him unjustly , hee ceaseth to be a minister . reply . the question is of ministers unjustly forsaken or driven from the church , and your answer is for most part of ministers , set aside or deprived by their owne default : wee never purposed to speake one word for an unworthy minister , whom christ hath put out of office , and therefore your labour to prove that such justly rejected by the the church , are no longer ministers , might well have beene saved . answ . the ground of this position being about the nature of a ministers office ; whether it consist in his office , relation to the flocke of a particular church : the former part of our answer was not in vaine , nor the grounds impertinent , and wee accept your grant of it , that a minister justly rejected by his church is no longer a minister : then wee inferre that there is no indelible character in the office , but that his ministery stands in relation to a particular flocke , not to the catholike church , for then a particular church could not dissolve his office , and therefore it will follow , that ( if hee bee found worthy after ) upon repentance to bee called to another church , hee must bee new elected and ordained to his office , being no minister upon his just deposing . reply . but wee will examine your conclusions upon which you build the sentence which you passe against them ; first it is certaine , &c. answ . what is said to the first is spoken before , and we will not repeat things in vaine . reply . secondly , the power of feeding , which the minister hath , is neither confined to one society onely , nor nextly derived to him from christ by the church . the office and authority of a pastour is immediately from christ , the deputation of the person which christ hath designed is from the church ministerially , but neither vertually nor formally . answ . these things about the call of a minister by the church were also spoken to before , when wee spake of the power of the keys , and the first subject thereof , and therefore the assertion being granted , these things might well be spared , but what we finde here more then in the other place , we shall consider . the power of the church in electing her officers is so cleare in the scripture , and so confessed a truth by the godly learned , that it cannot bee denyed , yet here seeme to be given so many restrictions in the case , that they much abate and weaken this great and precious liberty and power given by the lord. 1. that the power and office of a pastor is immediately from christ by his institution is granted , but the question is , how this man comes to have this office applyed to him ; if immediately , then hee is in this an apostle , if mediately , it is by the church , or else shew by whom . 2. that the church choose ministerially , and ought to choose whom christ hath described in his word , and fitted with gifts , and so farre designed by christ wee grant , but what if there bee twenty such ? which of them doth christ designe , but whom the church freely choose ? and therefore that is no diminution of their power , that they must choose ministerially , and whom christ so designes . the case is alike in all other ordinances dispensed , examination is immediately from christ , by his institution , the person to be censured is designed or described by christ , a notorious or obstinate sinner : the church passe this sentence onely ministerially , and yet puts forth a great power of the lord jesus christ , in applying the sentence to this or that person : and so here : and therefore it is strange to us , that any should say they depute this officer neither vertually nor formally , when as the act which they put forth , ( which is the outward call of the officer ) must needs come from a power formally in the church to doe the same , as well as when the church or officers censure an offender , &c. answ . reply . the consent of the people is requisite in the election of pastors and teachers , we grant , the direction of the elders going before , or along with them , acts 1. peter declared what an one should be taken , &c. acts. 6. deacons were chosen by the consent of the church , &c. but in this election the people did first choose , when most commonly the apostles instructed the people , and went before them in the electon , and they consented . act. 14.23 . the apostles by consent choose , &c. this restriction of the peoples power to an after consent , at least ordinarily , will not hold : if the evident light of acts 6. could not be denyed , and the other places were more obscure , why should not that place with its light cleare the rest ? but that in act. 1. is as evident , peter proves the need of such a choice to be made , shews it must bee one that had so long conversed with christ , to witnesse such things , and further hee doth not lead them , there might be twenty such , but they choose two , as a preparative act to apostleship , vers . 23. and who were they , but such as they speake unto , viz. the disciples , vers . 15. whom he cals men and brethren , vers . 16. so act. 14.23 . lifting up of hands is the signe of election , not of an after consent . lastly , by this doctrine how shall the church come by officers , when shee hath none to goe before her in choosing for her ? must shee loose her right , or take whom others will choose for her , and impose upon her ? reply . in the primitive times , after the apostles , one church might elect a pastor for another , &c. answ . 1 if by way of counsell one church shall propound and advise another to choose such , ( leaving them free to take or refuse ) this is lawfull in case , but otherwise it is a plaine usurpation and we must leave scripture rules and patterns to justifie it . 2 wee grant in a safe sense there may be communis electio , whereby a fit man is propounded by churches or ministers to be chosen by another people , and thus the philadelphians might elect a fit pastor for the church at antioch , ( as ignatius exhots ) with sundry like instances in the first times after the apostles , and this wee deny not may lawfully bee now . but this is nothing to that electio singularis , whereby a people choose one to be their minister , of which we speake , for it is evident from the testimony of cyprian oft alledged , that it is in the power of the people to choose worthy ministers , and reject the unworthy ; and ambrose thinkes that he is worthily thought to bee elected divin●… judicio , whom all the people desire . ambros . lib. 10. ep. 82. it is very true , that as the times grew worse , the elections were oft disturbed , sometimes by the clergy choosing without the people , ( of which athanasius complaines ) sometimes by the peoples carrying it tumultuously : sometime the emperors interposing . but this and like corruptions cannot forfeit the liberty of the church which christ hath given it , and therefore hee that was no great friend to the peoples liberties , yet ingenuously saith that although the people is bellua multorum capitum , and most apt to be tumultuous , yet this is not inn●…ted to a beleeving people , qui non minus nunc quam oli●… gravis esset in electionibus , as publicae utilitatis studiosissima , spalta . de rep. eccles . lib. 3. cap. 3. reply . if here it be questioned , whether your election of the people be essentiall to the calling of a minister , wee answer , first , a thing is essentiall two wayes , either as absolutely necessary , so as the thing can have no existence without it ; or necessary to the integrity of a thing , so that it is maymed ●…i bout it . againe the people be either few in number , and simple , unable to judge of the sufficiency of a minister , or they be more in number , increased in wisedome , sound in faith , and able to discerne of things that differ . in the first sense the election of the people is not necessary or essentiall , in the second , his calling in that respect is maymed . answ . it is to bee noted , that here wee dispute of the outward calling of church-officers ; now the very essence of any outward calling , doth lye in the right and power of them that elect . if all the countries of england should elect or call a lord major for london , bee they never so many and wise , it is a meere nullity , and why ? because the right of election is not in them , but if the citizens in whom the right lyes , doe elect ( though weakly ) hee hath the true essence of the call : if others electing a major the city will receive him , submit to him , and so give their consent , hee may bee said to have the substance of that call , though not an orderly and lawfull election , and so maymed : so it is here . secondly , if in our election of the people ( being the scripture way of election , ) the proper right and power bee seated by christ in the church , unto whom they are to minister , then it must needs follow , that the very essence of a ministers call stands in their election , or at least in their after consent and subjection to his ministery , in which case wee grant though the calling be maymed , yet it hath the substance of a true calling . but if the people will not receive such as are imposed upon them , hee hath no call at all , but usurpes the same , and it is a meer nullity . and therefore it concernes churches the more to consider , what they doe in receiving and submitting to such unworthy ministers , as are oft imposed upon them ; but if the right and power of electing ministers bee in any other persons , let it be shewed from the scriptures , for we are not much moved in such cases with the corrupt customes of after-times . and this also shewes what kinde of call such men have that are ordained by prelates at large without any election at all , if they be ministers to the catholike church , then the catholike church is bound to receive them , and submit to their office , but no part of the catholike church , and therefore not the whole is bound to submit to them , and therefore indeed they have no office nor calling as pastors or teachers , except it can be proved they be evangelists , apostles or prophets . reply . if the people be few and simple , they stand in ●●re need of guidance from their owne elders and other churches ; if many and full of wisdome , their liberty to choose is the greater , and the greater wrong to bee deprived of it . the practise of the apostles and primitive churches shew this for many ages , sometime men were propounded to the church to be chosen , sometimes the chiefe left wholly to them . answ . 1 what is all this to the purpose , what light or derection a church need to receive ? the essence of a ministers call lyes not in the propounding or advising of any to elect him , but in the election of such as have the true right so to doe , which is still in the church , though few and weake , if a true church , and yet you produce not one scripture example of any officer propounded by the apostles , or elders to the church to be chosen by them , much lesse limiting the church to consent thereto , if they had nothing against him . reply . in reason this is evident , for the childs consent is required in marriage , but the more able he is to choose for himselfe , the more liberty may parents grant , the lesse able the more watchfull must they be . reply . this similitude utterly faileth in two essentiall things , that concerne the case for which it is applyed . 1. because a childe is under the authority of the parents , whose right is such that a childe cannot lawfully choose without them . but there is no church or others have such a right and authority over any church in their choice of officers . 2. whatsoever the power of parents bee , yet the essence of the marriage consists in the mutuall consent and promise of the children that marry , and so here the essence of a ministers call must lye in the election of the church and acceptance of the minister which is not avoided but by the similitude confirmed . it is a duty of neighbour churches to lend their helpe to their brethren in election of their ministers , when the scripture willeth us to exhort one another or admonish one another , it is not onely a command to every singular person towards his fellow , but also to any whole company . answ . wee grant all this , and that it is the duty of a church , bee it weake or strong , to take all needfull counsell , advise or exhortations and admonitions in so weighty a worke . but if churches or others shall impose upon any church any officer without their choice , this is no brotherly helpe , but unjust usurpation . and if you understand junius so , as that charitatis jure & communione sanctorum , one church have power to choose for another , other wayes , then by advising them to elect such an one for themselves , wee see no reason for that , nor doe wee thinke it is his meaning : neither doth paul , rom. 12.12 . lay any foundation of such usurpations , but onely of mutuall brotherly helpfulnesse by counsell , &c. and the contrary is not policy , but some degree of tyranny . reply . it is a blemish in the call of a minister , if either the people be not fit to choose , or being fit they be shut out from the chocie , but this maime doth not make a nullity in his calling . answ . if a people or church bee never so weake , which is here called unfitnesse , yet christ being amongst them , and they making an orderly and good choice , there can be no blemish in the call seeing the right is them , and such a free choice will better stablish the conscience of any godly minister in his call , then if a synod of the ablest ministers should impose him without their free choice , except it can bee proved that the right of election is in the synod , which we thinke will not bee done . but bee they able or weake , if the people be shut out , it must needs make a great maim in his call , and if they doe not consent nor submit to such a one called by others , it will make it a nullity , as was shewed before . what authority hath hee to minister to any church , if they will refuse him ? or who shall censure them for refusing , by any rule of christ ? reply . the saving truth of god and a lawfull ministery are both essentiall to a true church . answ . answ . what then becomes of the church when the minister is dead ? reply . the true church hath continued by the blessing of god where the election of ministers hath beene given away by the people or taken from them . answ . true ; but it hath been continued by the after consent , and subjection of the people to their ministers chosen by others , else they must needs have broken a pieces and dissolved the church , or taken upon them to choose others to themselves , which still shewes that the essence of the call is in the people . what is said of the disorders of ancient churches in elections , we passe over as nothing to this purpose . that the ministery might bee lawfull for substance , where there were many defects in the manner of the call we grant , the church at length consenting to submit thereto , in whom the true right is placed by christ : and therefore we passe over what followes to that purpose , though wee might object against some passages in the discourse . reply . as for the second branch of your answer we know not well your meaning ; if this be your minde , that a minister lawfully called and set over the congregation , is to bee esteemed a minister in the usuall church , a●… the particular church hath unity with , and is part of the universall or catholique , and as a party baptized is not baptized into that congregation onely , but into all churches , and that the ministery is one , cujus a singulis in solidum pars tenetur , as cyprian speaketh , and therefore though the minister be unjustly cast off by one congregation , yet hee is not to be esteemed as no minister , wee freely consent . but if your meaning bee , that hee is onely by right a minister of that particular congregation , because unjustly deposed , as formerly in the execution of his office , hee was a minister to them onely , and to no other society whatsoever , or in what respect soever , your opinion is contrary to the opinion of the universall , and tends to destroy the unity of the church , and that communion which the churches of god ought to have one with another . answ . first , if our meaning be doubtfull , seeing these expressions doe not well suite our notion , nor fully enter into our understanding , we shall give the meaning of our answer distinctly , and then consider what is here said . first , there is a difference betweene the unjust leaving or casting off a minister , without all orderly proceedings against him , and the unjust deposing him in an orderly way of church censure : if the question be taken in the first sense , he remaines every way and in every respect by right a minister as hee was before , except he reject them , and so dissolve the relation that was between them . but if the question speak of an orderly censure of deposition unjustly , then we judge of that case as we would do in any other , censure of a member by excommunication , & therefore we say , he is stil a minister , in f●…ro interno before christ , for clavis errans non ligat . secondly , in respect of that church he hath stil right truly to minister to them , and is their minister though unjustly hindered in the execution of his ministery , as a member unjustly censured hath a true right to the ordinances , and membership , though unjustly hindred from the same , though in foro externo , we grant to them or in their account he is no minister , as a person excommunicated is to them no member . thirdly , in respect of other churches , if it doth appeare unto them that hee is unjustly deposed , they may and ought to esteeme him still , and receive him and have communion with him , as a true minister of jesus christ , in the church he doth belong to , as they may do with a member unjustly cast out , but til that appeare unto them , they cannot so esteem and honor him , ( being orderly deposed but must at least suspend their judgment til the case be cleared . fourthly we answer clearely and plainely to the chiefe scope of the question , if a minister bee unjustly deposed or forsaken by his particular church , and he also withall renounce and forsake them , so farre as all office and relation betweene them cease , then is hee no longer an officer or pastour in any church of god , whatsoever you will call it . and the reason is , because a ministers office in the church is no indelible character , but consists in his relation to the flocke : and if a minister once ordained , his relation ceasing , his office of a minister , steward of the mysteries of god shall still remaine ; why should not a ruling elder or deacon remaine an elder or deacon in the church as well ? all are officers ordained of christ alike given to his church , officers chosen and ordained by laying on of ●…ands alike , but we●… , suppose you will not say a deacon . in such a case should remaine a deacon in the catholique church , therefore not a minister . secondly , wee shall now consider what is here said , and first this language of a minister in the usuall church as a particular church hath union with and is a part of the universall , it is an unusuall expression to us , and to the scripture phrase , and therefore beare with us if wee fall short of your meaning ; the usuall church in england hath beene either the arch-deacons church in the deana●…ies , or diocesan in the bishoprick , or provinciall or nationall , but wee hope that there is no such intended here , yet to all this and the jurisdiction thereof particular churches have been subject as parts there . but if by usuall church you meane a classical , provinciall or nationall church , wee must intreat better grounds for any of these , and therefore wee must confesse our minde and meaning is not so , that wee looke at a minister of a particular church in any such relation to the usuall and intermediate church betweene it and the catholique . the second sense therefore we owne and acknowledge as before . but whether this be contrary to the judgement and practise of the universall church , wee know not , because it is hard for us know what the universall church judgeth , except we could heare it speake or see its practise ; if the onely head prophet and shepherd of the church jesus christ be fit to declare her judgement , we will be tryed thereby , who we know hath set elders in every particular church , act. 14.23 . to watch over their particular flock , act. 20.28 . but not over any other church that wee can finde . neither doth this destroy the unity or communion of the catholique church , nor of particular churches one with another as is said , for churches may enjoy brotherly communion one with another , without such stated formes , under the power and authority of one another , as hath been shewed before . reply . for if he be not a minister to other churches , then are not the churches of god one , nor the communion which they have together on , nor the ministers one , non the flocke which they feed one . answ . in what sense is intended to have the ministers one , and flocke one , we doe not see . if you meane one by one visible government over the catholique church , wherein there is a subordination of churches and ministers , you must at last rise to oecomenicall pastor , or councell that must be the supreme , which can scarce ever be had . if you meane an unity by brotherly communion in office●… of love and mutuall helpefulnesse of churches and ministers , without usurpation , such an unity and community is not destroyed , and the argument doth not follow : cannot many distinct societies of townes or corporations make up one county , except the major or constable in one towne be a major or constable in others also ? by this reason the deacon of one church is the deacon of all , or else the unity is destroyed . reply . if the pastor derive all his authority from the church , when the church hath set him aside , what right hath he to administer among that people ? answ . true , but we say he derives all his authority from christ , by the church indeed , applying that office to him , to which the authority is annexed by the institution of christ , hence being the minister of christ unto them , if they without christ depose him , they hinder the exercise of his office , but his right remaines . reply . as they give right to an unworthy man to minister amongst them , if they cal him unjustly , so they take right from the worthy , if they unjustly depose him . answ . we grant there is a parity in foro externo , but as in the call , his outward cal consists in the election of the calling , and the acceptation of the called , to compleat his power of administration . now this by christ in his church may be destroyed in a ●…ust censure without his consent , but cannot unjustly be wrung from him without his consent , & therefore he may hold his right , till either hee be justly deposed or willingly relinquish the same upon their injurious interruption of the use of his right . reply . and whereas you say the minister is for the ministery , and the office for the execution , and so the pastor and the flocke are relatives , and therefore if their election gave him authority among them to feed , their c●…sting him off hath stripped him of the same power they gave him . answ . wee grant it is so , yet the execution may bee unjustly hindred , though the right and office remaine : but we may well retort this argument upon the minister of the usuall or catholicke church . thus if the minister bee for the ministery , and the office for the execution , and so the pastor and flock be relatives , then hee that may justly for ever be hindred of all execution of the ministery and hath no power to censure his flock , or cannot so much as justly approve , and admonish them for the same , surely hee hath a poore office and ministery , but such a minister that hath no particular congregation , that is his flock under his charge , may justly be excluded out of all churches , and cannot censure or reprove his catholique or usuall church for the same , therefore he is indeed no minister , and and hath no office in the church of god. ●…hap . xvii . position 8. that one minister cannot performe any ministeriall act in another congregation . reply . the preaching of the word and publique prayer in the congregation , meet together solemnely to worship god , &c. are properly ministeriall , &c. answ . concerning our true sense and meaning in our answer to this position wee have spoken in the second consideration of the second and third positions , to which wee referre the reader , onely here wee must ingenuously confesse that our expression , that a minister exercising in another church , doth it not by vertue of any calling , but onely by his gifts , is not so cleare , but may occasion stumbling , yet the the next words following doe fully expresse our mindes , viz. that he doth not put forth such a ministeriall act of authority and power in dispensing of gods ordinances , as a minister doth performe to that church , whereunto hee is called to be a minister , for so hee doth not performe any ministeriall act with that authority : hee doth to his owne which further cleares up our expression in the second consideration , viz. that he is a pastor of none but his proper flocke , although some acts of his office may extend beyond his owne flocke , as we have shewed before ; and therefore in this sense we may still conclude , that if the question be put to any minister ( so exercising in another church ) which was once put to our saviour , by what authority dost thou these things ? let him study how to give an answer , for wee have not yet learned it from this reply . we confesse there are some godly learned servants of christ , who possibly may bee otherwise minded , and thinke that a minister preaching in another congregation , doth it onely as a gifted man ; as the refuter of doctor downam ( with others in former times of reformation ) beleeved also . but we desire that if any difference appeare herein , it may bee no prejudice to the same cause for substance wee maintaine , if by sundry lines wee all meet at last in the same point . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a23641-e280 vid . pet. mart. loc. com. de excom . brins watch , part 3. cap●… 10. notes for div a23641-e1580 jun. lib. 1. paral . 6. notes for div a23641-e1900 g. apol. cap. 7. q. 2. notes for div a23641-e3150 ibid. p. 138. peter martyr in 1 kings 12. verse 31. pet. mart. com. loc. de idol . in prae●… . l. 1. iohn 2.15 , 16. conc. miliv . can. 12. tertull. apol. cap. 30. vid. chemnit . ex. de innoc. sanctorum . vid. birth of heresies , out of elasopolitans comment . pet. mart. loc . ●…om ▪ de idol . notes for div a23641-e7920 whit. de eccle. 1 cor. 15.47 ▪ vid. brightm . an. in loc. cypr. lib. 3. epist . 13. cypr. lib. 4. epist . 7. * right of presbyt . pag. 482. page 22. page 68. tertul. lib. 4. com. mar. notes for div a23641-e14470 * calvin epist . 332. chamier de euchar . cap. 13. notes for div a23641-e16830 reply to the second consideration of the answer . notes for div a23641-e24880 pet mart. de excom . loc. com. * officiall . notes for div a23641-e26380 lib. 1. cap. 6.7 rev. 2.2 and 3.9 . acts 2 38.8 . ●…7 . 19 17 , 18 , ●… . cham de bap. lib. 5. cap. 1●… .