COurteous Reader , it being expected by some , that I should ( upon second thoughts ) render ) a more particular account of my disapprobation of the Independent Platforme , then I have lately done in my Twelve considerable serious Questions touching Church-government , wherein I propounded my Reasons against the same , but in a generall manner : I shall for thy further satisfaction , and our Churches peace ( most necessary and desirable in these dangerous times ) propose by way of Interrogation , my more particular Exceptions , against this New form of government , with all ingenuity and freedome , without reflection upon any particular persons , or just disgust ( unlesse * truth displease ) to those who are contrary-minded : My only aim being to convince , reconcile , not irritate or disaffect them . The reason why I thus write by way of Question , not Descision , is , because ( for ought I finde ) the Independents have not yet dogmatically , in direct termes ▪ discovered to the world the ful truth of what they assert , but politikely conceale the principall grounds , and more deformed parts of their Church-platforme , till a further opportunity , for feare their very discovery at the first should cause their new building to miscarry . Whereupon I have rather chosen to pump out their determinations by the ensuing Questions to avoid mistakes then to refute them upon ba●e conjectures ; following the Apostles seasonable advise , 1 Thes. 5. 21. Prove all things , hold fast that which is good .

1. Whether the Independent former of Church-government , now so much contended for as the a only Church-government of divine institution , which all ( say they ) are bound to submit unto , be anywhere to be found in the Old or New Testament ? What Texts or Presidents ( if so essentiall and necessary as it pretended ) doe either directly prescribe or delineate it unto us ? Vnder what dark cloud or vaile hath it layn totally obscured , for hundreds yea thousands of years that it never appeared in any Church Nation , Republike in the world from Adams dayes till ours ? And whether it be yet so clearly revealed to those who pretend best knowledge of it , as to be positively resolved on amongst them what it is , or what the benefits or mischiefes of it may prove to be ? If not , I shall conclude of this New-government , as our Saviour doth in his parabolicall speech concerning New-wine , b No man having drunke old Wine streightway desireth new for he saith , THE OLD IS BETTER : Old Presbytery , old unlordly Episcopacy , are ( no doubt ) far better for us then New Independency .

2. Whether some Independents do not extraordinarily eclipse , impeach , if not absolutely deny and subvert the lawfull power of Civill Magistrates , all former Parliaments ▪ and the present too , in all matters of Church-goverment and Potlesiasticall affaires , contrary to their solemne Covenant and Protestations , ●o defend the ancient Priviledges & authority of Parliament , and even quite blow ●p all their ecclesiastick authority ( by a new kinde of Gun-powder ) at one breath : yea lay most foul , scandalous , uncharitable censures upon the honourable Members of this Parliament , who deserve far better language from them ▪ Witness this most observable dangerous passage , lately dropped from their pens , in A Reply of two of the brethren to A. S. ( newly printed ) pag. 81 , 82. Thirdly , if the Law of the State be the first and most considerable band or tye upon men , to submit unto the power of your combined Eldership , ( as you seeme here to imply , in saying , that all men and all Churches thereof are bound by Law , &c. ) then you must acknowledge , that the root and base of your Government is * Potestas secularis , secular authority : and then how is it Ecclesiastick or Spirituall ? A man may as well bring a cleane thing out of an uncleane ( in Jobs expression ) as make a spirituall extraction out of a secular root . Secondly , it will rest upon you to prove , that the Civill State hath a power to forme and fashion the government of the Churches of Christ . Yea , thirdly and lastly , it will be demonstratively proved against you , that you resolve the government of the Churches of Christ ( in the last resolution of it ) into the humours , wills , and pleasures of the world , yea of the vilest and most unworthy of men . Brethren , bona verba quaeso : Is this your printed , publike , avowed language of Parliaments and the Members of it , even to the very face of the most religious , best-deserving Parliament that ever sate , which hath been most indulgent to you hitherto ? Is this your so much boasted c preaching , writing , fighting for the priviledges and rights of Parliaments , which ever since the first planting of Religion among us to this present , haue framed and fashioned the government of our Churches in all ages , as I can demonstratively manifest by good Antiquities ? Certainly this language of yours ( with sundry other like passages in this your much-applauded d Reply ) cause intelligent men to suspect , that the designe of some of your party is , to hugge embrace the Parliament , in shew , just as the Yvie doth the Tree , thereby to advance your selves ( the onely absolute Ecclesiasticall Dictators , law-givers ) and your independent Churches by degrees above the Parliament , and then to over-top , suppresse its power in the end ; or else to ruine it & us for the present , by endeavouring to raise schismes among us , both in Parliament , City , Country , and our Armies , because they now discerne the major part of both Houses and the Synod inclined against your Independent novelties . If this be the accursed project of any of you , ( for I dare not harbour so ill a thought of the greatest part ) the Lord will both discover and avenge it to their infamy , in due season : In the meane time , to answere the substance of this most derogatory scandalous passage against Parliaments ; I sadly referre it to all rationall mens judgments in the world , Whether a Parliament of the most eminent , religious , learned , grave , zealous wisest Peeres and Commons of this Realme ( the representative body and grand Councell of the Kingdom ) assisted with the advice judgment of an Assembly of the most orthodoxe pious consciencious ▪ learned Ministers in our Church , specially selected for this purpose , & of the chiefest of your Independent party ▪ be not more fit to form , & fashion the government of the Churches of Christ , and better able to resolve , determine upon long and serious debate , what Church-government is most agreeable to the Word of God , and fittest for every particular Parish-church throughout this Island , for the advancement of Gods glory , the peoples salvation , the generall peace and tranquillity of Church and State then any one or two Independent Ministers , with five or sixe of their illiterate , impolitick , and perchance inconsiderate Members ( to use no harsher epithite ) assembled in a private Conventicle , can doe in two or three houres space ? And whether it bee meeter that these should prescribe a church-government , discipline to themselvs the Parliament , Synod , and whole Kingdome to boot ; or the Parliament and Assembly to them , who deeme themselves e wiser , holier in their owne vaine conceits , then a thousand Parliaments , Synods put together ? I doubt not they wil all confesse , that in their Congregationall debates about any point of order , discipline government or doctrine , in any of their Independent Churches , the f major voice or party ought to over-rule and binde the lesse ; And if so , let them yeeld me a solid reason , when they are able , why the Ecclesiasticall constitutions , Resolutions , Orders , Edicts of the greatest part of an whole Nationall Parliament , Synod , Kingdome , should not much more binde both them and all their Independent Churches as well as others , as they have ever hitherto done ? And why a combined Presbytery , of many , learned Ministers , Lawyers , Gentlemen of best judgment , quality , should not be fitter to decide all Church-controversies and affaires of moment within their prefixed limits , by generall Laws and Canons setled in Parliament by common consent , then any Independent or popular Tribunall of lesser judgement and experience , by their owne arbitrary privat edicts ? Else they must deny what the holy Ghost informs us , g That two are better then one ; h that in the multitude of Counsellours there is safety : or that the pious i Kings in the old Testament , or a Nationall Councell , or Parliament of their Princes , Nobles , Elders , Captaines , and people of best quality , had any lawfull power to reforme or settle all weighty Ecclesiasticall Church-affaires ; as they ever did by Gods owne command and approbation .

3. Whether it be not the Independents professed Tenet , if truely and positively laid downe , that * every Minister hath a divine right and liberty , to gather to himselfe an Independent Church , not of Pagans , Infidels converted by himselfe alone , but of all the eminentest Christians formerly converted , and regenerated by the Ministry of others ( especially if rich or potent persons , able to give them large contributions and support ) who shall voluntarily submit themselves to his Ministry , and such a Church-government as he shall dictate to them : though by our established lawes and customes , ( which our solemne Vow and Covenant obligeth us to maintaine ) they be Parishioners to twenty other godly Ministers , by whose Ministry they were first regenerated and built up in grace ? That every Christian hath a free liberty , by the Law of God , to unite himselfe to what Independent Congregation hee pleaseth ; the husband to one Congregation , the wife to another , the children to a third , the servants to a fourth ; nay , every distinct person in a family to a severall Church , ( and that not onely without , but against the consents of their owne Magistrates , Ministers , Husbands , Parents , Masters , who have no jurisdiction ( as some say ) over their consciences herein ; so as one great family shall be divided into members of twenty or thirty severall Independent Churches , if they please , and those perchance different one from another in their government , opinions , discipline , ceremonies ? That those whose consciences or judgments will not permit them to joine with their Independent Churches , ( which they * professe to be canonicall ( though guided by no canons ) and of divine assertion , denying all other Church-government to be so ) must be wholly excluded ( as Heathens and Reprobates ) from being members of any Church ; or rather ( by the self-same Christian liberty as Independents plead for ) they may unite themselves into Presbyteriall or Hierarchicall Churches , or what other forme they please to elect : and so we shall have an Independent Church-government in one part of a Family , Parish , Town , County , Kingdom ; a Presbyteriall in another ; an Episcopall in a third : and by this means if the husband bee a great stickler for Episcopacy , and member of a Prelaticall Church ; the wise a fierce zealot for Independency , and a member of such a congregation ; the children or servants stout champions for Presbytery , and members of such assemblies , what confusion distraction , implacable contestations , * schismes , tumults this Licentiousnesse ( for I cannot stile it Freedome of conscience ) would soone inevitably engender in all Families , Villages , Cities , Counties , Kingdomes , to their utter ruine and desolation , the meanest capacity may with ease divine ; without the help of an Oracle . However , it would unavoidably subvert all ancient bounds of Parishes , all setled maintenance for the Ministry by tithes or otherwise and put all Ministers into the condition of Friars mendicants , to live ( as Independents do ) upon the Almes or voluntary contributions of their severall congregations , to whose humours , errours , opinions , they must either readily conforme , or else starve for want of subsistence , in case of their displeasure , being subject to casheering upon every small dislike .

4. Whether Independents must not necessarily grant from their owne principles , that as every Minister hath free liberty to congregate what Church hee pleaseth , of men suitable to his own opinions , practise ; so also particular persons have a like liberty to unite themselves together into a Church , to elect what Minister they thinke best , and prescribe to themselves what government they shall conceive to be most sutable to the Scriptures ? And if so , then every man will * heap to himselfe Teachers , and erect Churches after his own lusts : meer Papists ▪ and Popishly affected persons , will set up Popish Churches and Priests ; Arminians , Arminian Churches and Preachers ; Anabaptists , Anabaptisticall Ministers and Assemblies ; Arrians , Anti-Trinitarians , such conventicles and Pastors ; Libertines , a licentious Church and Ministry ; yea , every Heretick , Sectary , or guidy-pated Enthusiast , upon pretext of new Revelations and discoveries of concealed Evangelicall truths , ( though when exactly scanned they may oft times prove old errors or meer diabolicall delusions ) will erect new Independent Churches of their own ( and that for succession and perpetuity to the perverting of infinit soules ) , uncontroulable , unsuppressible by any Ecclesiasticall or Civill authority : And thus in few moneths , or yeares space at least , through Satans instigations , our owne depraved judgments , ( a verse to unity , piety , purity , but † prone to Errour , Heresie , Schismes , lyes yea lying phantasies ) and through defect of a severe coercive power , in Ecclesiasticall Synods-Parliaments , temporall Magistrates , ( who as * some new Independent Lights informe us , have no coercive power to suppresse these springing heresies , but onely by a non-communion with or refuting them by the word to which they will obstinatly * refuse to hearken , as deeming their own opinions most divine : ) we shall have almost as many severall heresies , sects , Churches , as there are families , persons ; ( Quot homines tot sententiae , tot Ecclesiae : ) Yea , if they thus admit every Minister , or secular person , to have a divine right , freedom , to set up such an independent Church and government as he pleaseth ; then by the self-same reason , they must have a like liberty to elect erect , what civill forme of government they please ; to set up a new Independent Republike , Corporation Kingdome , Magistracy , in every family , parish , city , county , and to cast off all former civill Governours , Governments , Lawes at pleasure , as well as Ecclesiasticall ; there being the selfe-same grounds both of obligation , obedience to , and exemption from the one as other . And if men by their Christian liberty shall thus be wholly exempted at their pleasure , as well from all temporall as ecclesiasticall Lawes and formes of government , ( as grant me but the one , they must of necessity yeeld the other ; the same Texts , Reasons obliging us equally in both , and * Kings , Parliaments having the self-same jurisdiction in and over all † ecclesiasticall matters , which are not positively of divine institution and injunction , as in and over temporall ) what an Anarchy and Ataxy this will suddenly introduce , to turn all Kingdomes , Republikes , Nations , Corporations , Churches , Families , and the World it self , quite upside down , and ruine them by schisms ; I tremble to imagine .

5. Whether the Minister alone , or the Congregation without the Minister , or both conjoined , have power in their Independent Churches to make and prescribe particular formes of Church-covenants , orders , conditions , to all who are or shall be admitted members of their new erected congregations ? If the Minister alone , without the people , ( which I suppose they grant , because he is the principall actor in gathering their new Churches to himselfe , and the sole person who must first admit them to be members of his Flock , upon his own conditions : ) I would then demand ; whether every Independent Minister arrogates not as much or more power to himselfe , in making , prescribing lawes and covenants to his congregation by his own inherent authority , without consent of King , Parliament , Synod , or People , as the Pope himselfe usurpeth , and farre more power , authority , then Independents either do or dare ascribe to Christian Princes , Magistrates , Councels , or the Parliament ? to all and every of which they absolutely * deny any power of making or prescribing ecclesiasticall lawes , covenants , canons , to binde them , or their independent Churches or any members of them ; yea any sufficient coercive power to restrain or punish Hereticks , Schismaticks , or Broachers of heterodox novell opinions , to disturb the Churches or Republikes tranquillity . If the people alone without the Minister , or both conjoyned , then you invest every Independent Conventicle , consisting of never so few inconsiderable ignorant members , with a greater legislative power , and ecclesiasticall authority , then you allow to whole Nationall Parliaments , Councels , consisting of most eminent , learned , pious persons of all sorts ; who by your New doctrine have no jurisdiction at all to make or enjoyne any forme of church-government , covenant , ecclesiasticall lawes or canons , to any particular churches : as if the eminentest Ministers and members of churches , by becomming members of Parliaments or Councels , did thereby forfeit and lose the right or exercise of that power , in those great representative bodies of the whole Kingdome and church of England , which you readily allow both them and others in every private church or Conventicle : A most strange and senselesse whimsie .

6. Whether it be lawfull or justifiable by the Word of God , for any Independent Minister of England , contrary to the Lawes of the Realme and Inhibitions of Parliament , of his owne bare authority to congregate and erect an independent congregation ; or to prescribe a particular forme of church-government , together with a church-covenant ( in nature of a solemne Oath ) to which euery particular member of his new congregation must subscribe before admission into his Church ? Whether there bee any the least precept , president in Scripture , or Antiquity to warrant such an irregular usurped authority and power among Christians ; which the verie Apostles themselves never claimed ? Whether all the particular churches in any Nation , Kingdome , city , Republike professing the same orthodox Faith , though divided ( for more conveniency ) into severall congregations , be not all members of , and constitute but * one intire Nationall church , or common christian Society , as they did at first , before thus multiplied , augmented ? ( even as all the particular houses , parishes , societies in London are members of and make but one city and corporation ; all the families , parishes , townes , counties in England , but one Kingdome or Republike ; and as all particular and Nationall churches in the world , make up but one entire catholike militant church : ) whence both in Scripture phrase , and common speech in all Authors . Languages whatsoever , they are commonly called by the name of One Church , in the singular number ; as , the Church of England , France , Scotland , Ireland ; the Eastern , Westerne , Greeke , Latine Church ; the Church of the Jewes , Gentiles , &c. And if so , then let our Independents shew me , if they can , the least colour of Scripture or reason , why the Parliament and Assembly ( chosen to assist them by publike consent ) representing our whole church , State , may not as lawfully set up and prescribe a new church-government , discipline , lawes and canons , agreeable to and not discrepant from Gods Word , to binde all particular churches and persons within our Realme , as well as pull downe and demolish the old , or make temporall lawes and ordinances to binde all persons , societies , members of the Realm , ( and Independents too as well as others ) both to obedience and punishment ; or else for ever disclaim their new-minted government , their declamations , arguments against the power of nationall Synods Parliaments in Ecclesiastical matters and church-government , as most ridiculous and absurd .

7. Whether the members of every Independent Church , may at their owne free liberty , when ever they please , desert their owne particular Church , and become members of other Independent or Presbyteriall Congregations , without the licence or dispensation of their owne Church or Minister first obtained ? If yea , then why oblige they them to the contrary by particular Church-covenants ; or refuse to admit any members of one Independent Church into another , without such consent or licence first obtained ; or at least repute it a grand injury in that Church or Minister who admits them ? ( especially if they be wealthy members , for some say poore ones , and persons of meaner condition , are not much regarded by Independents , no more then poore or contemptible offices . ) If nay , then by what law or conscience doe , or can they congregate their Independent Churches out of twenty or thirty severall parishes and congregations , not onely without any authority of the State , or licence of the Ministers or whole Churches in those Parishes ; but even against their expresse wills and desires ; yet thinke they doe God good service ; these Ministers , Parishes , no injustice by it , though it be directly contrary to their owne Principles , and these common dictates of God and Nature ; Quod tibi non vis fieri alteri ne feceris : and , * All things whatsoever ye would that men should doe unto you , doe yee even so unto them , for this is the Law and the Prophets ?

8. Whether Independents peremptory refusall , to admit any to be member , of their Churches , to receive the Sacrament of the Lords Supper , or to have their children baptized among them , unlesse they will first subscribe to such particular Church-covenants ; Orders as they shall prescribe ; and their rigid Excommunication , rejection of such members who have taken their Covenants , in case they subscribe not to all their further dictates and opinions , without any re-admission , till they shall promise an universall conformity in opinion and practice to whatever is required by their Independent Minister or congregations ; be not an usurpation of as great yea greater coercive power over the consciences , persons of Christians , as Presbyterians , Parliaments claime , or as the Bishops themselves in the height of their pride and tyranny ( as Bishops ) ever challenged or usurped ? Notwithstanding Christian liberty of conscience , in opinions , practice , ( which they pretend to leave arbitrary to every mans free election ) be the principall pillar to support , the sweetest inescating bait to entice men to embrace their Independency ? If they say , they imprison enforce no mans person or conscience , but leave all persons , consciences free : I answer , that the excluding men from their church-assemblies , sacraments , christian communion , yea their very innocent infants from baptisme itselfe in their independent Churches , unles they will conforme to their arbitrary Church-covenants , dictates , prescriptions ( warranted by no Scripture or divine examples ) is a farre greater * greivance , violence , coertion to the persons , conscience of Christians , then all imprisonment , Racks and corporall tortures in the world : yea an unjust exclusion of them from that undoubted right to the ordinances and Church of Christ wherewith God himselfe hath invested them .

9. Whether Independents refusall to admit such Christians , who are not notoriously scandalous in their lives , nor grossely ignorant in the Principles of Religion , to the Sacrament of the Lords Supper , when they earnestly desire to receive it , or professe a cordiall present remorse of all their former sinfull courses , with an unfained resolution to live a pious holy life for the future , onely upon this suspicion or apprehension , that they are but carnall men , not truly regenerated or sanctified by Gods Spirit , ( though they cannot certainly judge of their present spirituall conditions , † infallibly known to God alone ) be not a very uncharitable , arrogant , yea unchristian practice , contrary to our Saviours owne immediate example , who at the first institution of this Sacrament admitted * Judas to his last Supper as well as his fellow-disciples , though he certainly knew him to be both a Traitor and Devill ; opposite to the injunction of † Paul himselfe , who though he disswades unworthy Receivers from eating and drinking the Lords Supper without due preparation and examination , for feare of eating and drinking damnation or judgment to , and drawing downe temporall diseases on themselves ; yet he simply excludes none from receiving it , at their owne perils , who are willing , or desirous to participate of it , nor gives any authority to Ministers absolutely to seclude them from it , unlesse excommunicated and notoriously scandalous . And whether their present deniall to administer the Sacrament in their churches to those who are truely religious , earnestly longing even frequently to receive it for their spirituall comfort , according to Christs own institution , only for fear lest some unregenerate persons should communicate with them , and depriving their whole congregations of this most comfortable necessary ordinance for sundry months , nay yeares , ( as some have done ) upon this groundlesse , unwarrantable reason● , refuted by Christs owne example , who administred the Sacrament to the other Disciples though there were a Judas amongst them ; by the practice , doctrine of Paul himself 1 Cor. 11. 17. to 34. and the usage of all Christian churches throughout the Vniverse , be not an over-rigid , uncharitable , unjust ( that I say not impious ) action , injurious to Christ himself , to the soules and spirituall estates of those good Christians secluded from the Sacrament , and a more transcendent strain of tyrannicall usurpation over the soules , the consciences of Christians , and ordinances of God himself , than ever our most domineering Lordly Prelates exercised , or any Presbyterians have hitherto pretended to lay claim unto ? If this proceed not from a domineering spirit , and be not an excessive * Lording of it over the Lords inheritance , yea over Christ himself in this his ordinance , I professe I am much mistaken : Yea , I feare this spirituall pride and excessive uncharitablenesse of some , who take upon them by their owne inherent power to erect new Congregations , and set up new formes of church-government , Discipline , &c. in Christian States , Churches , already planted , without , yea against their Parliaments , or † Christian Magistrates authority , when as the very Apostles did never by their owne ordinary jurisdiction , as private Ministers , but onely by their extraordinary calling , as Apostles ; or in and by their Canonicall Epistles , dictated by Gods Spirit prescribe any matters of church-government , Discipline , Rites , or order to the particular Churches first gathered and planted by themselves alone , as is evident by Acts 7 , 1. to 8. c. 14. 22 , 23. Tit. 1. 5. 1 Cor. c. 7. & 11. & 12. & 14. c. 16. 1. 2. Jam. 2. 2. 3. c. 5. 13. 14. 15. 16. except in and by a publike Synod , Acts 15. ) and thus debarre others from the Sacrament , as unmeet Receivers , upon such unwarrantable grounds , do make themselves far more uncapable , unmeet to receive it , than those they thus exclude .