the antidote animadverted, by p. prynne, william, 1600-1669. this text is an enriched version of the tcp digital transcription a91138 of text r200269 in the english short title catalog (thomason e301_16). textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. the text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with morphadorner. the annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. this text has not been fully proofread approx. 3 kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from 1 1-bit group-iv tiff page image. earlyprint project evanston,il, notre dame, in, st. louis, mo 2017 a91138 wing p3890 thomason e301_16 estc r200269 99861075 99861075 113203 this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons 0 1.0 universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase 1, no. a91138) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set 113203) images scanned from microfilm: (thomason tracts ; 49:e301[16]) the antidote animadverted, by p. prynne, william, 1600-1669. 8 p. s.n., [london : 1645] p. = william prynne. caption title. imprint from wing; foot of page 8, above "finis", reads: printed according to order. a reply to "an antidote against foure dangerous quæries" (wing a3493), which was a reply to prynne's "foure serious questions of grand importance" (wing p3959). annotation on thomason copy: "septemb: 17th 1645". reproduction of the original in the british library. eng chuch of england -discipline -early works to 1800. antidote against foure dangerous quæries -early works to 1800. excommunication -early works to 1800. lord's supper -early works to 1800. a91138 r200269 (thomason e301_16). civilwar no the antidote animadverted,: by p. prynne, william 1645 553 18 0 0 0 0 0 325 f the rate of 325 defects per 10,000 words puts this text in the f category of texts with 100 or more defects per 10,000 words. 2007-06 tcp assigned for keying and markup 2007-06 aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images 2008-03 elspeth healey sampled and proofread 2008-03 elspeth healey text and markup reviewed and edited 2008-09 pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion strained there is in it much of the letter , plain common reading to be understood see the end of its quoting here , mat. 12. 20. christ cha●ged the great multitude that followed him , that they should not make him known , ( he knew fame made his adversaries malice rise , and so indangered his person to their wrath before the time . ) now for end , a charge from christ to them now , the evangelist brings a text ( esay 42-beginning ) it 's said by esay the prophet ( the mouth of god ) gods servant , chosen , beloved , shall not strive , nor cry , neither shall any man heare his voice in the streets , a bruised reed shall he not break , and smoking flax shal he not quench , until he bring forth judgment to victory . which i thus understand , christ shall not make himselfe known , he sh●ll not strive , neither like a champion with a shout rush on , and overco●…e vide i●…sh . 6. 18. he shall not break a reed already bruised , quench flax already smoking , as a snuf at the extinguishing of a candle , esay 43. 17. untill he shall judge victoriously . vid. esay . 42. 4. rev. 19. 11. 17. object . 8. if the men would fairely frame that part remaining of the question into an objection , it should be thus , h●w ministers shou'd not c●n●est for such a large and unlimited power to exclude poor christian brethren from the sacram●nt , when not actually excommunicated from the church , and from other ordinances , as some pretend to , since of christians receive unworthily , the iniquity ( as your selves bold when any hear the word unworthily , unprofitably ) is their own , not the ministers . and is this most prophane ? as your answerer saith the objection is ▪ but i hold the emperick cals that ( now i minde it ) o●j●ction prophane , which is of his own compounding , which he answers ( briefly ) thus in preaching the word to them who are hardned by it ▪ the minister seeks and hopes to doe good : but in giving the sacrament to sc●ndal●…us impenitent persons they know they give that which will certainly bring iudgement . truly , ( in a word ) the man hath lost the chace , he hath forgot ( or wilfully mistakes changes ) the question . for the querist endevours nor ( as is apparant ) to have scandalous sinners and impenitent receive the sacrament ( he wo●ld have such actually excommunicated from the church , and from all other ordinances besides and as well as this ) but would have christian brethren ( those not excommunicated ) to p●rticipate of this ordin●nce . next the answerer concludes , ( i professe ) like himselfe , as w●nt , he bestows , on his adversary , antagonist , pride ; antechristianisme d●●g●●ous opposition &c. on his arguments , most absurdity , ●●…ationality contrariety to m●nifest truth . and thus exit like the creatures of billings-gate ashore — railing . printed according to order . finis . the popes dreadfull curse being the form of an excommunication of the church of rome : taken out of the leger-book of the church of rochester now in the custody of the dean and chapter there / writ by ernulfus the bishop. ernulf, bishop of rochester, 1040-1124. 1681 approx. 5 kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from 2 1-bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : 2007-10 (eebo-tcp phase 1). a38584 wing e3241 estc r31440 11981773 ocm 11981773 51865 this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons 0 1.0 universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase 1, no. a38584) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set 51865) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, 1641-1700 ; 1008:8) the popes dreadfull curse being the form of an excommunication of the church of rome : taken out of the leger-book of the church of rochester now in the custody of the dean and chapter there / writ by ernulfus the bishop. ernulf, bishop of rochester, 1040-1124. 2 p. printed and are to be sold by l.c. ..., london : 1681. caption title. attributed to ernulf by wing and nuc pre-1956 imprints. imprint from colophon. reproduction of original in the huntington library. created by converting tcp files to tei p5 using tcp2tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between 1473 and 1700 available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the 25,363 texts created during phase 1 of the project have been released into the public domain as of 1 january 2015. anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. 5% (or 5 pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of 100 instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level 4 of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p5, characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng catholic church -discipline. excommunication. 2006-11 tcp assigned for keying and markup 2006-11 apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images 2006-12 mona logarbo sampled and proofread 2006-12 mona logarbo text and markup reviewed and edited 2007-02 pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion the popes dreadfull curse . being the form of an excommunication of the church of rome . taken out of the leger-book of the church of rochester now in the custody of the dean and chapter there . writ by ernulfus the bishop . by the authority of god almighty the father , son and holy ghost , and of the holy canons , and of the undefiled virgin mary , the mother and patroness of our saviour , and of all the celestial virtues , angels , arch-angels , thrones , dominions , powers , cherubins and seraphins , and of the holy patriarchs , prophets , and of all the apostles and evangelists , and of the holy innocents , who in the sight of the holy lamb are found worthy to sing the new song , and of the holy martyrs and holy confessors , and of the holy virgins , and of all the saints , and together with all the holy and elect of god ; we excommunicate and anathematize him or them , malefactor or malefactors , — and from the thresholds of the holy church of god almighty we sequester them , that he or they may be tormented , disposed and delivered over with dathan and abiram , and with those who say unto the lord god , depart from us , we know not thy wayes . and as fire is quench'd with water , so let the light of him or them be put out for evermore , unless it shall repent him or them , and make satisfaction . amen . may the father who created man curse him or them . may the son who suffered for us , curse him or them . may the holy ghost who was given to us in baptisme , curse him or them . may the holy cross whom christ for our salvation triumphing over his enemy ascended . curse him or them . may the holy and eternal virgin mary mother of god curse him or them . may st. michael the advocate of holy souls , curse him or them . may all the angels and arch angels , principalities and powers , and all the heavenly host , curse him or them . may the laudable number of the patriarchs and prophets , curse him or them . may st. john the chief fore-runner and baptist of christ , curse him or them . may st. peter and st. pa●l , and st. andrew , and all other christs apostles , tog●ther with the res● of the disciples and the four evangelists , who by their preaching converted the universal world , curse him or them . may the holy and wonderful company of martyrs and confessors , who by their holy works are found pleas●ng to god almighty , curse him or them . may the holy quire of the holy virgins who for the honour of chirst have despised the things of the world , curse him or them . may all the saints who from the beginning of the world to everlasting ages are found to be the beloved of god , curse him or them . may the heavens and earth , and all the holy things remaining therein , curse him or them . may him or them be cursed where ever he or they be , whether in their house or in their field , or in the high way , or in the path , or in the wood , or in the water , or in the church . may him or them be cursed in living ; in dying , in eating , in drinking , in being hungry ▪ in being thirsty , in fasting ▪ in sleeping ▪ in slumbring , in waking ▪ in walking ▪ in standing , in sitting , in lying , in working , in resting , in pissing , in shitting , in blood-letting . may he or they be cursed in all the faculties of their body . may him or them be cursed inwardly and outwardly . may he or they be cursed in the hair of his or their head . may he or they be cursed in his or their brain . may he or they be cursed in the top of his or their head , in their temples , in their forehead , in their ears , in their eye-browes , in their cheeks , in their jaw-bones , in their nostrils , in their fore-teeth or grinders , in their lips , in their throat , in their shoulders , in their wrists , in their arms , in their hands , in their fingers , in th●ir b●●ast , in their heart , and in all the interior parts to the very stomach ▪ in their reins , in the groins , in the thighs , in the genitals , in the hips , in the knees , in the legs , in the feet , in the joynts , and in the nayles . may he or they be cursed in all their joynts , from the top of the head , to the sole of the foot : may there not be any soundness in him or them . may the son of the living god with all the glory of his majesty , curse him or them ; and may heaven with all the powers which move therein , rise against him or them to damn him or them , unless it shall repent him or them , or that he or they shall make satisfaction . amen , amen . so be it . the publication of this is to shew what is to be expected from the pope , if he come to be supream head of the church in this nation . london , printed and are to be sold by l. c. on ludgate-hill . 1681. foure serious questions of grand importance, concerning excommunication and suspension from the sacrament propounded to the reverend assembly and all moderate christians to prevent schismes, and settle unity among us in these divided times / by a lover both of peace and truth. prynne, william, 1600-1669. this text is an enriched version of the tcp digital transcription a56165 of text r212447 in the english short title catalog (wing p3959). textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. the text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with morphadorner. the annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. this text has not been fully proofread approx. 14 kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from 3 1-bit group-iv tiff page images. earlyprint project evanston,il, notre dame, in, st. louis, mo 2017 a56165 wing p3959 estc r212447 12362205 ocm 12362205 60273 this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons 0 1.0 universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase 1, no. a56165) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set 60273) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, 1641-1700 ; 222:23 or 2176:13) foure serious questions of grand importance, concerning excommunication and suspension from the sacrament propounded to the reverend assembly and all moderate christians to prevent schismes, and settle unity among us in these divided times / by a lover both of peace and truth. prynne, william, 1600-1669. [4] p. s.n., [london : 1644?] caption title. attributed to william prynne. cf. bm. imprint suggested by wing. item at reel 2176:13 incorrectly identified as wing p3960. reproductions of original in harvard university libraries. eng excommunication -early works to 1800. a56165 r212447 (wing p3959). civilwar no foure serious questions of grand importance, concerning excommunication, and suspention from the sacrament; propounded to the reverend assem prynne, william 1645 2340 14 0 0 0 0 0 60 d the rate of 60 defects per 10,000 words puts this text in the d category of texts with between 35 and 100 defects per 10,000 words. 2002-03 tcp assigned for keying and markup 2002-04 apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images 2002-05 tcp staff (michigan) sampled and proofread 2002-05 john latta text and markup reviewed and edited 2002-06 pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion foure serious questions of grand importance , concerning excommunication , and suspention from the sacrament ; propounded to the reverend assembly , and all moderate christians , to prevent schismes , and settle unity among us , in these divided times ; by a lover both of peace and truth . the businesse of excommunication , and sequestration from the sacrament , now in publike agitation , is a matter of great moment , much difficulty , and very circumspectly to be handled , established , to prevent prophanation and scandall on the one hand ; and arbitrary , tyranicall , papall domineering over the consciences , the spirituall priviledges of christians , on the other ; which will necessarily follow , if it fall into indiscreet , over-severe , ambitious , passionate or revengefull hands , as we felt by wofull experience under the papacy and prelacy : ( nam paucis res illa tutò committi potest : mox solet subrepere dominandi studium , & sub praetextu pietatis suunt paenas ob privata odia , aut dogmata , vel talia ; as (*) aretius well observes ; who debating this question ; an hodiè restitui possit excommunicatio ? resolves thus . sunt qui disciplinam hanc etiam hodiè reducere velint , in eamque rem toti incumbant ; alii in eo videntur desperare : et quanquam despera●dum non putem , tamen perquam arduum judico , nec non impossibile praesentibus moribus , col●a submittere ejusmodi disciplinae : for which among other reasons , he renders this . accedunt exempla corum , qui idem conati , cum risu destitêre , aut quibus pessimè cessit : magno studio in germaniae quibusdam ecclesiijs instituta fuit ; sed cecidit in spongiam natus ridiculus mus : as some feare it nay now do among us , unles it be setled with great wisdome , caution , moderation , certainty , and as little as possible herein left to any mans discretion ; the serious consideration whereof hath induced me to propound these ensuing questions to our venerable assembly , and all other moderate christians , who ought in all things ( especially in this ) to avoyd extreames , and the seeming affectation of any greater lording power over the consciences or priviledges of their christian brethren , then of right belongs unto them ; least they approve that in , or usurpe that to themselves , which they have so vehemently heretofore declaimed against in , denied to , and quite taken away from the pope and prelates . 1. whether mathew 18. 16. 17. let him be to thee , ( not to the whole church , and all others ) as a heathen , and a publican , ( meant only of personall privat trespasses betweene man and man , not publique scandalous sins against the congregation , as is cleare by v : 15. if thy brother shall trespasse against thee , &c. not the church : and lu. 17. 3. 4. ) or 1. cor. 5. 5. 11. 1. tim. 1. 20. to deliver such a one to satan , &c. with such a one no not to eat , &c. be properly meant of excommunication , or suspention from the sacrament only ? and what warrant there is in scripture for ministers or others to suspend men from the sacrament of the lords supper only , and not from the congregation and all other publique ordinances , together with it ? since 1. cor. 5 7. 9 13. iohn 9. 22 32. 33 chap. 12 , 42 , chap. 16. 2. 2 thes. 3 , 14. 2 iohn 16. 11. 3 iohn 10. numb. 12. 14. deut. 23 1 , 2 , 3 with all other scriptures alleaaged for the proofe or practise of excommunication ; speake only of putting , casting out , and excluding men wholly from the congregation , syragogue , and all publique christian communion ; but not one of them of excluding , or suspending men only from the sacrament , and not from 〈◊〉 publique ordinances , as prayer , preaching , and the like : and since in the primitive times , ( is is evident by tertulians apollogy : c. 39. de paenitentia lib. and others ) scandalous persons , were ever excommunicated and wholy cast out of the church ( extra gregem dati ) not barely sequ●stred from the sacrament : whence all the canonists and schoole-men determine : (b) excommunicatus non possit interesse divinis officiis in ecclesia , vel extra cum aliis : and define excommunication to be , an ecclesiasticall censure , which deprives a man from the communion of the church , sacraments , and all publike ordinances : and a●etius defines it , to be , a●icuius professi religionem nostram , à consortio fidelium , in sacris et prophanis rebus exclusio , &c. which excludes men totally from the church , and all publique ordinances , not from the sacrament only . 2. by what divine authority or scripture text , can any minister lawfully keepe backe any christian from the sacrament , ( not actually excommunicated and cast out of the church for some notorious scandall upon a legal conviction ) who earnestly desires to receive it , though in his owne private judgment hee deemes him unfitting or unworthy ? since we read of no circumcised person in the old testament , ever debarred from the passeover by the priests , that was willing or desirous to eat it , though perchance not altogether so prepared to ea●e it , as god requi●ed , exod. 12. 3. 4. &c. 44 , to 58. 2 chron. 30. 13. to 21. since christ himselfe admitted iudas to it , though he knew him to bee a devill , a traitor ; iohn 6. 70. 71. as is cleare by math. 26 20. to 31 mar : 14. 18. &c. luke 22. 14 &c. iohn 13. 31. and since paul in the 1. cor. 11. 20. to 36 : usurped no other authority to himselfe , nor gave any power to others , to keep unworthy receivers from the sacrament , but only admonished them of the danger of unworthy receiving , and thereupon advised every receiver , to examine him selfe before hee came to receive ? and whether the minister by admonishing his flock , of the danger of unworthy receiving , and seriously dehorting such as hee deemes unworthy not to receive the sacrament til they become more fit to participate , under paine of eating and drinking their owne damnation , and other judgments that will ensue thereon , hath not thereby discharged his full duty and conscience , as this text of the corinths . ezech. 33. 1. to 10. acts 20. 26. 27. with the liturgyes of our own and the french churches , in their exhortations before the sacrament , both intimate and resolve ? 3. whether the unprofitable , and unworthy hearing of the word , be not as great , as dangerous , as damning a sinne , as the unworthy receiving of the sacrament , as math. 10. 14. 15. mar. 16 , 15 , 16 , luk 8. 18 heb 2 1 , 2 , 3. c. 3. 7 , 8 , 1● . c. 6. 6. 7. 8 : assert ? whether ministers upon the selfe same grounds and pretences ( of partaking of other mens sins , of being guilty of their damnations , of not giving holy things to dogges and casting pearles before swine ; math. 7. 6. meant principally of preaching the gospell to such as shall contemne it , not of the sacrament , as is cleare by math : 10 , 14 , mar. 16 , 15. 16. acts 13 46 , 51 ) may not as well keepe their people from preaching of the word , and refuse to preach unto them , least it should not profit them for want of faith , hebr. 4 2. but increase , or aggravate their sins , and become unto them the savour of death unto death , 2 cor 21 5. 16 iohn 12 : 4● . as from the sacrament ? and what substantial difference they can produce , warranted by scripture , why they may not deny to preach the word to such christ●ans whom they deeme unprofitable under , or unfit to heare it , as the sacrament to those whom they judge unmeet to receive it ? 4. whether , seeing god only knowes the secrets of all mens hearts , and who are his , 2 chron. 6. 30. 2 tim. 2. 19. not ministers ; who may oft times deeme those worthy communicants , who are not ( as close hypocrites , &c. ) and those unworthy who are not , 1 samuel 16. 5. to 14. s●eing hee can sodainly change notorious sinners hearts , lives , and bring them to repentance in a moment , before ministers can take reall notice of it , act. 9. 3. to 28. seeing wee must not censoriously judge one another , because wee fall or stand to our owne master , matth. 7. 1. luk. 6. 37. rom. 14. 4. to 15. seeing none must quench the smoking flax , nor breake the bruised reed , nor discourage weake christians by overmuch rigor , or indiscretion , matth. 12 20. rom 14. seeing every communicant is bound to examine himselfe , which he best knowes , ( not others peremptorily to examine him ) 1 cor. 11. 27. 28 , 29. 2 cor. 13 5. gal. 6. 4. 5. and every man is only to beare his owne sinne , not anothers , in which he is no partaker , gal 6. 4. 5. ezec. 33. 1. to 10. ezec. 18 4 to 21. and seeing every christian when he is invited to the sacrament , is bound under paine of sin and contempt to receive it , 1 cor. 11. heb. 10. 29. whether can any minister in point of conscience refuse any christian , not actually excommunicated , the sacrament , if he desires to receive it , in case hee professe his sincere repentance for his sins past , and promise newnesse of life for time to come , though in his own private opinion , he may chance to judge him a person unfit or unworthy to communicate ? if yea , let him shew his charter for it in scripture : this i am certain hee cannot doe : if he alleage , hee cannot do it in point of conscience , because hee should bee paraker of his sin , if he eate and drink damnation by unworthy receiving : the apostle resolves the contrary ; that hee eates and drinkes damnation only to himselfe , not to the minister , or the other communicants ; that he shall only beare his own burthen , and give an account of himselfe to god , gal. 6. 4 , 5. rom. 14. 12. and the administration being onely the ministers act , which is a holy and divine institution , the unworthy participation the parties owne iniquity , ( as is his unworthy hearing , praying &c. ) not the ministers ; it can no more involve the minister in the guilt of it , then his unprofitable hearing ; of which no minister holds himselfe guilty , who with care and conscience faithfully dispenceth the word unto his auditors , eze. 33. 1. to 10. acts 20. 26. 27 ; which (*) lucas osiander proves at large against the anabaptists . seeing therfore there is as much danger to peoples soules in their unworthy , unprofitable hearing of the word , as receiving of the sacraments ; and since ministers are and may be unto god a sweet savour of christ , as well in them that perish , by unworthy receiving the sacrament as in them that are saved , by worthy participation thereof ; as they are in the preaching of the gospell , 2 cor. 2. 14 , 15 , 16. i cannot discerne any shadow of reason , why any godly ministers should over-earnestly contest for such a large or unlimited ecclesiasticall power , to exclude their christian brethren from the sacrament ( when not actually excommunicated from the church and other ordinances ) as some pretend to ; much lesse , why any of them should resolve to give over their ministery to which christ hath called them , in case they cannot obtaine such a power from the parliament , as neither christ , nor his apostles , nor the primitive christians in the purest times did ever exercise ; or why any shold forwardly seperate from our church , in case such an unlimited arbitrary power be not established in our new presbiteries , as our very lordly prelats never durst to claime . moderata durant . wherefore my earnest request to all ministers and people shall be , to rest fully satisfied with such a limited iurisdiction in this kind , as our honourable , parliament upon serious debate , shall in their piety and wisdom thinke meete to settle , for the prevention of scandall , prophanesse in the people , of tyranny and oppression of mens consciences in the presbytery ; the only desirable boundary betweene these two extremities , which must be avoyded with all speciall care . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a56165e-30 (*) theologiae problemat , locus , 112. de excommunicatione , p. 340. (b) 〈…〉 (*) e●chi●dian contro . ver. ●um anabap. de ecclesia . c. 6. quaest. 3. a letter concerning the matter of the present excommunications owen, john, 1616-1683. 1683 approx. 36 kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from 19 1-bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : 2005-12 (eebo-tcp phase 1). a47967 wing l1353 estc r9567 13111182 ocm 13111182 97647 this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons 0 1.0 universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase 1, no. a47967) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set 97647) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, 1641-1700 ; 744:22) a letter concerning the matter of the present excommunications owen, john, 1616-1683. [2], 34 p. printed for benjamin alsop ..., london : 1683. errata: prelim. p. [2]. attributed to john owen. cf. nuc pre-1950. reproduction of original in huntington library. created by converting tcp files to tei p5 using tcp2tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between 1473 and 1700 available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the 25,363 texts created during phase 1 of the project have been released into the public domain as of 1 january 2015. anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. 5% (or 5 pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of 100 instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level 4 of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p5, characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng excommunication. 2005-03 tcp assigned for keying and markup 2005-04 spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images 2005-05 mona logarbo sampled and proofread 2005-05 mona logarbo text and markup reviewed and edited 2005-10 pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a letter concerning the matter of the present excommunications london : printed for benjamin alsop , at the angel and bible in the poultry , over-against the church . 1683. errata . page 5. line 17. read these excommunications . p. 10. l. last . r. this work. p. 11. l. 17. for by them r. to them . p. 13. l. 1. for by r. in . p. 20. l. 6. r. demands . l. 16. for this r. the. p. 27. l. 5. for these ordinances , r. these excommunications from those ordinances . p. 32. l. 11. r. as much as . a letter concerning the matter of the present excommunications . sir , you judg aright , that at my last being in london , i did consider the unusual hurry of excommunications against those called dissenters ; and because of the novelty of the proceedings therein , i did moreover endeavour my own satisfaction , as unto the design , causes , and ends of them : and i found it a thing easily attainable , without difficulty , or curiosity of enquiry . for whereas there is no covering of religion , nor any thing appertaining thereunto , save only a name or title cast upon them , they openly discover themselves of what sort they are , and what they belong unto . and among many other indecencies wherewith they are accompanied , one seemed to me to be very notable ; and this is , the collection of whole droves together by summons and citations ; then dealing with them in such a clamorous manner as makes a representation of a publick market or fair for chaffering about souls . but that , i found , which did principally affect the minds of men , was the event which these proceedings do tend unto , and will produce ; and they generally concluded , that they would be highly prejudicial , if not ruinous unto all trust and trade , among the peaceable subjects of the kingdom . for they said , that if the commissaries would do as in the old roman proscriptions in the time of sylla , and of the triumvirate afterward , and set up the names of all that were to be proceeded against , in publick tables , to be exposed to the view of all ; those concerned , might shift for themselves , as well as they could , and the residue of mankind might be at liberty to follow their own occasions ; but whilst they retain an unmeasurable reserve in their own breasts , as unto persons to be ruined by them , so as that they know not whose names , their own , or of those with whom they are concerned , they shall see the next day affixed on the church doors , in order unto excommunication , it deprives them of all repose in the law of the land , or publick justice , and breaks all their measures about the disposal of their affairs . how far this is already come to pass , you that are in the place , know better than i ; but sure i am , that the very rumor of it gives a general discomposure unto the minds of men. hearing no other discourse of these things , i was somewhat surprized with your letter , wherein you required my thoughts what influence these excommunications may have on the consciences of them who are so excommunicated ; for i did not think there would have any question been made about it : but since you are pleased to make the enquiry , i shall for the satisfaction of my respects unto you , ( tho as unto any other end i judg it needless ) give you a brief account of my judgement concerning these proceedings , which is the same for the substance of it , with that of all sober persons with whom i ever conversed . excommunication is the name of a divine institution of christ , wherein , and in whose due and just administration , the consciences of christians are , or ought to be highly concerned ; and this , as for other causes , so principally because it is the only sure representation of the future judgment of christ himself ; he did appoint it for this end , that so it might be . providential dispensations are various , and no certain judgment can be made on them , as unto the final and eternal determination of things and causes ; no man knoweth love or hatred by the things of that nature that are before him ; but this is ordained by the law of christ to be a just representation of his future judgment , with a recognition of the causes which he will proceed upon : therefore it is divinely instructive , in what he himself will do in the great day ; it is futuri judicii praejudicium : but he will scarcely be thought well advised , who shall send men to doctors-commons , to learn the way and manner of christs judgment of his church , with the causes which he will proceed upon . he giveth himself another account of it , mat. 25.32 . unto the end of the chapter ; of what he there declares , there is neither name , nor thing found among the men of these practices , which we treat about . the mentioning of them , would be looked on as a sedition against their authority ; or else make them ashamed , as a thief when he is found : but for any sort of person to undertake the administration and execution of the sentence of excommunication against others , not making it their design to represent the judgment of christ towards impenitent sinners , is to bid defiance to him and his gospel . wherefore no person whatever , wise or unwise , good or bad , can be concerned in the excommunication , in conscience , or on a religious account ; i speak not only of them who are forced to suffer by them , but of them also by whom they are administred and denounced : for it is impossible that men should be so far forsaken of all understanding , as to imagine that the proceedings thereins , do belong unto the gospel , or christian religion , any otherwise but as a debasement and corruption of it ; neither is any man ever the less of the communion of the church of england , by these excommunications ; tho he may by force be debarred from some advantages that belong thereunto . neither is the communion of any church to be valued , from which a man may be really and effectually expelled by such means : for this excommunication is not only null as to the efficacy of its sentence on the account of its mal-administration ; but it is not in any sence that which it is called , and which it pretends to be . idols are called gods , but we know they are nothing in the world : so is this proceeding called excommunication , but is no such thing at all . if a man should paint a rat , or an hedg-hog , and write over it , that it is a lion , no man would believe it so to be , because of its magnificent title . all that it can pretend unto is a political engine , used to apply the displeasure of some , upon an accidental advantage , unto them whose ruin they design ; and therein a satisfaction unto revenge , for discountenancing their supposed interest . that there is any acting in it of the authority of christ , any representation of his love , care , and tenderness towards his church , any thing that is instructive in his mind or will , any praeludium of the future judgment , no man i suppose does pretend ; nor i am sure can do so , without reflecting the highest dishonour imaginable on christ himself , and the gospel . to make these things yet more evident , and to show how remote the present excommunications are , from all possibility of affecting the consciences of any , i shall briefly pass through the consideration of these things , which principally belong unto them , and whereunto all their efficacy is resolved ; and that which first offereth it self , is the persons by whom they are administred : the truth is , there is such a variety of scenes in this tragedy , and such different actors in it , from apparitor , with whom it begins , unto the jailor with whom it ends , that it seems not easie , whom to ascribe the animating power and authority that is in it , unto : but yet on a little consideration the matter is plain enough . the ministers of the parishes wherein the excommunicated persons are supposed to dwell , by whom the sentence of excommunication is rehearsed out of a paper from the court , have no coneernment herein ; for they know nothing of the causes , or reasons of it , nor of the process therein , nor do pretend unto any right , for the cognizance of them ; nor do for the most part know the persons at all , on whose qualifications alone , the validity or invalidity of the sentence doth depend ; nor can give an account to god or man of what is done , as to right and equity ; and therefore i no way doubt , but that these who are learned and pious among them , do hardly bear the yoke of being made such properties those acts and duties which appertain unto their ministerial function ; but it is known who they are , who begin the work , and carry on the process of it unto its final execution ; and i shall say no more concerning them , but this alone , that how meet soever they may be for the transaction of civil affairs , or for the skilful managing of that work herein , which they suppose committed unto them ; yet as unto any thing wherein conscience may be affected with the authority of jesus christ , they can be of no consideration in it . if any man can but pretend to believe , that our lord jesus by any act , grant , law or institution of his , by any signification of his mind or will hath committed , or doth commit , the keys of the kingdom of heaven , the power of binding and loosing , of expelling out of , and admitting into his church , unto these or such persons , he hath assuredly confidence enough to pretend unto a perswasion of whatever he pleases . they do not believe it themselves ; nor among themselves , pretend unto any such thing ; but only a power to execute their own laws or canons . they do not judg that any personal , moral or spiritual qualifications , are required unto ecclesiastical administrations ; which yet to deny , is to undermine all religion , without which they may be fit for all church duties , who are no better than that arch-deacon of oxford , who being charged with immoralities in his conversation , justified himself by the soundness of his faith , affirming that he believed three gods in one person ; and besides he believed all that god himself did believe : let a man out of interest , or fear , or ignorant superstition , strive never so much to affect his conscience with the excommunications of such men , he will never be able to effect it . but be the personal qualifications of those intended , what they please , the question is , how they came by that power and authority herein , which they pretend unto ? they are chancellors , archdeacons , commissaries , officials , with their court attendants , of whom we speak . i confess these horrid names , with the reports concerning them , and their power , are enough to terrifie poor harmless men , and make them fear some evil from them . but excommunication is that which no man knows on what grounds to fear , from these names , titles , and offices : for that is the name of a divine ordinance instituted by christ in the gospel , to be admininistred according to the rule and law thereof ; but these name , and those unto whom they do belong , are utterly forreign unto the scriptures , and as unto the work , to the practise of the church for a thousand years ; what therefore is done by them of this kind , must of necessity be utterly null , seeing that as such , they have no place in the church themselves by the authority of christ. but however it be undeniably evident , that they have no relation unto the scripture , nor can have any authority from christ , by vertue of any law or institution of his , nor countenance given unto them by any practise of the primitive church ; yet what they do in this kind , being pretended acts of power and authority , an authority for them must be pleaded by them : but then it may be justly demanded of them , what it is ? of what nature and kind ? how it is communicated unto them , or derived by them from others ? this is that which those who are excommunicated by them , are principally concerned to enquire into , and , which themselves in the first place are obliged to declare and evince : unless men are satisfied in conscience , that those who act against them have just authority so to do , or in what they do , it is utterly impossible they should be concerned in conscience in what is done against them , or be any ways obliged thereby : here therefore they abide until they are satisfied in this just and necessary demand . but here all things are in confusion ; they can declare neither what authority is required unto what they do , nor how they come to possess that which they pretend unto . if it be from christ , how comes it to operate on the outward concerns of men , their liberties and estates ? if it be meerly of man , whence do they give the name , and pretence of a divine ordinance unto what they do ? if any should follow the clew in this labyrinth , it is to be feared that it would lead them into the abyss of papal omnipotency . as they exercise this power in courts of external jurisdiction , and forms of law , they will not deny , i suppose , but that it is from the king ; but why do they not then act that power in the kings name ; for what is not done by his name , is not done by his authority . ministers do not preach , nor administer sacraments in the name of the king , for they do it not by his authority , or by vertue of authority derived from him ; nor do parents govern their children or families in his name , but their own ; because authority for it , is their own by the law of god and nature ; but that exercise of power which externally affects the civil rights and liberties of men , must be in the kings name , or the foundations of the government of the nation are shaken — but i make it not my concernment what name or stile they use in their courts . let it be granted for their own security , that they have all their power and authority from the king , it must be therewithal granted of what nature it is , namely , civil , and not spiritual , but why then doth what they do , not go under the name of a civil order , constitution , or penalty , but of an ordidance or institution of jesus christ ? are not these things in their own nature everlastingly distinct ? and is not conscience hereby fully absolved from any respect unto it , as such an ordinance ▪ which in this supposition it neither is , nor can be . it is easily discernable , how these things tend unto the utter confusion of all things in religion . if it be said , that the power of it , as it is excommunication , is originally seated in the prelates , by virtue of their office , and is communicated unto this sort of persons , by commission , delegation , or deputation , under their seals ; it will yield no relief : for this fiction of the delegation of office-power , or the power of office , unto any , without giving them the office it self , whereunto that power belongs , is gross and intolerable . let it be tried , whether the bishops can delegate the power of ministerial preaching the word , and administration of the sacraments , unto any persons , without giving them the office of the ministry . if excommunication be an act of office-power , authority to administer it , cannot be delegated unto any without the office it self , whereunto it doth belong ; for these things are inseparable . i certainly believe it is the duty and concernment of some men , to state proceedings of this nature on better foundations , that the exercise of such solemn duties of christian religion be not exposed to utter contempt , nor men led by a discovery of false pretences of divine institutions , to despise the things themselves that are so abused . it were easie from many other considerations , to demonstrate the nullity of these mens pretended authority , with respect unto excommunication , as it is an ordinance of the gospel , in which respect alone , the consciences of men are concerned ; and as unto their power over the civil rights and interests of men , those troubled by them , must shift as well as they can . but yet further , the manner of the administration of the present excommunications doth evidence their invalidity and nullity . that which they pretend unto , as hath been said , is a divine ordinance , an institution of jesus christ ; and this declares in general how it ought to be administred by them who have authority for it , and are called thereunto : for it hence followeth , that it ought to be accompanied with an humble reverence of him and his authority , diligent attendance unto his law , and the rule of his word in all things , with solemn reiterated invocation of his holy name , for his presence , guidance , and assistance : where these things are neglected in the administration of any divine ordinances , it is nothing but the taking the name of god in vain , and the profanation of his worship . it may be some will despise these considerations ; i cannot help it , they do it at their utmost peril ; it is conscience alone which i respect in this discourse ; they who have any such thing , will think these things reasonable . again , the especial nature of this institution doth require an especial frame of mind in its administration ; for it is the cutting off of a member of the same body with them , which cannot be without sence and sorrow . to cut off any from a church , who was never a member of it by his own consent , nor doth judg himself so to be , is ridiculous ; hence st. paul calls the execution of this censure , bewailing , ( 2 cor. 12.21 . ) denominating the whole action from the frame of mind wherewith it ought to be performed ; and he that shall dare to decree or denounce this sentence without sorrow and compassion for the sin , and on the person of him that is excommunicated , plays a game with things sacred for his advantage , and shall answer for his presumption . besides , as was before observed , it is an instituted representation of the lord christ , and his judgment in , and of the church at the last day . if the consideration hereof , be once out of the minds of them by whom it is administred , they must unavoidably err in all that they do ; much more if it be never once in them ; but this they ought to take on their souls and consciences , that what they do , christ himself if present would do , and will do the same at the last day ; for so he will deal with all impenitent sinners , he will denounce them accursed , and deliver them to satrn . there is undoubtedly required from hence a reverential care and circumspection in all that is done herein : to make a false representation of christ in these things , that is , his wisdom , authority , holiness , love , and care towards the church , is the worst and most deformed image , that can be set up : what higher indignity can be offered to his gracious holiness , than to act and represent him as furious , proud , passionate , unmerciful , and delighting in the ruine of those that openly profess faith in him , and love unto him ? god forbid that we should think that he hath any concern in such ways and proceedings . whereas also the next end of this censure is not destruction , but edification , or the repentance and recovery of lapsed sinmers , it ought to be accompanied with continual fervent prayers for this end . this the nature of the thing it self requireth , this the scripture directs unto , and such was the practise of the primitive church . if we are christians , we are concerned in these things as much as we are in the glory of christ , and the salvation of our own souls . if we only make a pretence of religious duties , if we only erect an image of them for our own advantage , we may despise them , but at our peril . how well these things are observed in the present excommunications , is notorious . once to mention them , is to deserve a second thunderbolt : an account of them as to matter of fact , will be shortly given ; at present i shall only say , that there is not any transaction of affairs in any kind amongst men civilized , wherein there is a greater appearance and evidence of turbulent passions , acting themselves in all manner of irregularities , more profaness of expression , more insolent insultations , more brawling , litigious proceedings , more open mixtures of money demanded in pretended administrations of right and equity , than there are in the publick proceedings about them : shall any christian suppose that the holy spirit of god , on whom alone depends the efficacy of all divine ordinances unto their proper end , will immix his holy operations in or with this furious exertion of the lusts of men ? if this be looked on as the complement of christian discipline , or the last and utmost actings of this authority of christ towards men in this world , it must needs be a temptation unto men of atheistical inclinations : certainly greater scandal cannot be given ; and it is the interest of some , at least for the preservation of a veneration to their office , to dispose of proceedings in this case , in such a way and manner , as may administer occasion of consideration unto them concerned , and not be carried on as at present , with laughter , indignation and confusion ; and if dissenters are to be destroyed , it is desired , that the work were left unto the penal statutes , which as now prosecuted and interpreted , are sufficient for it ; rather than that the name of religion , and a divine ordinance , should meerly for that end be exposed to contempt . the last thing that i shall trouble you with at present , is the consideration of the persons against whom the present excommunications are blustered , with the pretended causes of them . these are they whom they call dissenters , concerning whom we may enquire what they are , and the cause of this pretended ecclesiastical severity towards them . and as unto the first part of the enqury , they are such as believe and make open profession of all the articles of the ch●istian faith ; they do so , as they are declared in the scripture ; nor is the contrary charged on them . there is nothing determined by the ancient councils to belong unto christian faith , which they disbelieve ; nor do they own any doctrine condemned by them : they profess an equal interest of consent in the harmony of protestant confessions , with any other protestants whatever . they own the doctrine of the church of england as established by law , in nothing receding from it ; nor have they any novel , or uncatholick opinion of their own . it is therefore utterly impossible to separate them from the communion of the catholick church in faith ; or to cast them from that rock whereon they are built thereby . they do also attend unto divine worship in their own assemblies ; and herein they do practise all that is agreed on by all christians in the world , and nothing else ; for they do not only make the scripture the sole rule of their worship , so as to omit nothing prescribed therein to that purpose , nor to observe any thing prohibited thereby ; but their worship is the very same with that of the catholick church in all ages nothing do they omit that was ever used by it , nothing do they observe that was ever condemned by it ; and this must be the principle and measure of catholick union in worship , if ever there be any such thing in the earth ; to expect it in any other observances , is vain and foolish . offering prayers and praises to god in the name of jesus christ , reading the holy scripture , and expounding of it ; singing of psalms to god , preaching of the word , with the administration of the sacraments of baptism and the lords supper ; in a religious observation of the lords day , unto these ends ; all according as god doth enable them by his spirit , is the sum and substance of the worship of the catholick church , wherein all christians are agreed : these things the scripture doth prescribe , and these things the church in all ages hath observed : all differences about this worship which have filled the world with inhumane contentions , arose from mens arbitrary addition of forms , rites , modes , ceremonies , languages , cringings , adorations , which they would have observed in it , whereof the scripture is silent , and primitive antiquity utterly ignorant — and it may be it will be one day understood , that the due observance of this catholick worship , according as god enableth any thereunto , leaving others at liberty to use such helps unto their devotion , as they shall think meet ; is the only communion of worship in the church , which the scripture requires , or which is possible to be attained : about the imposition of other things , there ever were , since they were , and ever will be , endless contentions . wherefore these dissenters practising nothing in the worship of god , but what is approved by all christians , particularly by the church of england , omitting nothing that either the scripture or catholick tradition directs unto , they are , notwithstanding this pretended excommunication , secure of communion with the catholick church in evangelical worship . moreover , they plead , that their conversation is unblamable ; that they are peaceable in the civil government , and useful among their neighbours ; if they do evil in these things , let them that prosecute them , bear witness of the evil ; but if they do well , why are they smitten ? if they can be charged with any immoralities , with any disobedience unto the rule and precept of the gospel ; those by whom they are thus prosecuted , are highly concerned , if not in conscience , yet in honour and interest , to manage the charge against them , that some countenance may be given unto their proceedings : for the law is not made ( as penal ) for a righteous man , but for the lawless , and disobedient ; for the ungodly , and for sinners ; for unholy and profane ; and if it be otherwise with the laws about these excommunications , they neither belong to , nor are derived from the law of god. there are indeed great clamours against them , that they are schismaticks and separatists , and things of the like nature ; that is , that they are dissenters : but in this case the whole force of any inference from hence , is built on this supposition , that it is the will of christ , that those who profess faith in him , and obedience unto him , unblameably , should be excluded from an interest in , and participation of these odinances of divine worship , which are of his own institution , who will not comply with , and observe such rights and practises in that worship , as are not so , but confessedly of humane invention . but no colour of proof can be given hereunto ; for it is directly contrary unto express scripture-rule , to the example of the apostolical churches , and unheard of in the world , before the branded usurpation of victor bishop of rome : an assertion of it , is to prostitute the wisdom , authority , and love of christ towards his disciples , unto the wills of men , oftentimes pre-possessed with darkness , ignorance , and superstition , and other lusts , as shall be more fully manifested , if there be occasion . let any colour be given unto this supposition from scripture or antiquity , and the whole cause shall be given up ; yet thus is it , and no otherwise , in the matter of the present excommunications ; persons of all sorts , every way found in the faith , unreprovable in the catholick worship of the gospel , professing love and obedience unto jesus christ , without blame , are excluded , what lies in them , who manage these ordinances , of divine worship , which the lord christ hath appointed and injoyned , without pretence of any other cause or reason , but only their not observance , in that worship , of what he hath not appointed . he that can believe this to be the will of christ , neither knoweth him , nor his will as it is revealed in his word ; and the consciences of men are sufficiently secure from being concerned in that , wherein such an open defiance is bid unto evangelical precepts and rules , with apostolical examples . and further , to manifest the iniquity of these proceedings , whilst these dissenters are thus dealt withal , all sorts of persons , ignorant , profane , haters of godliness , and openly wicked in their lives , are allowed in the full communion of the church , without any disciplinary admonition or controul : but as this serves to acquit them from any concernment in what is done against them ; so nothing can be invented that tends more directly to harden men in their sins and impenitency ; for whilst there is a pretence of church-censures , they will be apt to think , that they are sufficiently approved of christ and the church , seeing their displeasure is no way declared against them ; so they are not dissenters , they have reason to judg that they are safe here , and shall be so to eternity ; let them look to themselves who deserve to be excommunicated . is this the rule of the gospel ? is this the discipline of christ ? is this the representation of his future judgment ? is this the way and manner of the exercise of his authority in the church , a declaration of what he owns , and what alone he disavows ? god forbid that such thoughts should have any countenance given unto them . ecclesiastical laws have been always looked on as cobwebs , that catch the smaller flies , whilst the greater break them at their pleasure , but amongst those lesser , to spare those that are noxious or poysonous , and to cast the net over the innocent and harmless , is that which the spider gives no pattern of , nor can imitate . i shall not mention the avowed end and design of these present excommunications ; only i shall say , they are such , as many good men tremble to consider the horrible prophanation of things sacred , which they manifest to be in them . there are also many other things which evidence the nullity of these proceedings , which may be pleaded if there be occasion ; what hath already been spoken , is abundantly suffitcien to satisfy my engagement unto you , namely , that the consciences of men are not at all concerned in the present excommunications . it may be it will be said , that all this while we have been doing just nothing , or that which is to no purpose at all , as not concerning the present case ; for these of whom we treat , pretend no power in foro interiore , or the court of conscience , or unto nothing that should immediately affect it . their authority is only in foro exteriore , in the court of the church , which it seems is at doctors commons : wherefore by their sentence of excommunication , they oblige men only unto their outward concernments ; as unto what concerns conscience , they leave that unto the preachers of the word : it may be it will be so pleaded ; but before they quit their hands well of this business , they will understand , that excommunication it self is nothing but an especial way of the application of the word unto the consciences of sinners , unto their edification ; and that which is not so , pretend what it will , is nothing at all ; unto the dispensers , therefore , of the word , it doth alone belong ; and whereas the apostle tells us , that the weapons of our christian warfare , are not carnal , but mighty , through god , to bring into captivity every thought unto the obedience of christ ; they seem herein to say , that the weapons of their warfare are carnal , and mighty through the aid of some body , to cast men into prison , or to bring their persons into captivity : and indeed this outward court of theirs , is part of that court without the temple , which is trodden down by the gentiles , and shall not be measured in the restauration of the worship of god ; yea the distinction it self is silly , if any thing be intended by this outward court , but only the outward declaration of what is , or is supposed to be effected in the inward , or the mind and consciences of men . but let it be what it will ; those who have neither name , nor place , nor office in the church by divine institution , who attend not at all in what they do unto any rule of the scripture ; nor can , nor do pretend any authority from christ , in and for what they do , are no way to be heeded in this matter , but only as the instruments of external compulsion , which for the sake of the publick peace , is to be submitted unto with quietness and patience . i find , i confess , by the books with me , sent us weekly into the country , that in this state of things some of the reverend clergy do manifest great compassion towards the dissenters , in writing and publishing many discourses containing persuasives unto , and arguments for conformity , whereby they may be freed from their troublesome circumstances : but i must needs commend their prudence in the choice of the season for this work , as much their charity in the work it self : for the conformity they press , needs no other recommendation at this time ; nor need they use any other arguments for it , but only that it is better than being hanged , or kept in perpetual durance , or stifled in prisons , or beggar'd , they and their families ; or be starved in exile . and it hath been always observed , that arguments which march with halberts , bills , staves , serjeants , bailiffs , writs , warrants , and capiasses , are very forcible and prevalent . but i have done , and shall leave it unto others to declare what mischiefs do ensue on these proceedings , on civil accounts , and what an inroad is made by them on the government of the kingdom . for a new tenure is erected by them , whereon all men must hold their birthright priviledges , especially that which is the root whereon they all do grow , namely , their personal liberty . they hold them no longer by the law of the land , nor can pretend unto security , whilst they forfeit them not by that law ; they are all put into the power of chancellors , archdeacons , commissaries , and officials ; they may deprive them of them all at their pleasure , aganst the protection of that law under which they are born , and which hath been looked on as the only rule and measure of the subjects liberties , priviledges , and possessions . these things tend not only to the disturbance , but the ruine of all peace and trust amongst men , and of all good government in the world. and if they should excommunicate all that by the law of christ are to be excommunicated on the one hand , and all that are to be so by their own law on the other , and then procure capiasses for them all , it is to be feared , the king might want subjects to defend his realms against his enemies , unless he should do as they did of old at rome in great distresses , open the goals , and arm the prisoners ; or it may be the lesser part would at length find it troublesome to keep the greater in prison . but these things concern not you nor me . i beg your excuse , as not knowing whether you will judg this hasty writing too little for the cause , or too much for a letter . as it is , accept it from finis . a brotherly and friendly censure of the errour of a dear friend and brother in christian affection, in an answer to his four questions lately sent abroad in print to the view of the world. published according to order. walker, george, 1581?-1651. this text is an enriched version of the tcp digital transcription a96917 of text r212426 in the english short title catalog (thomason e265_4). textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. the text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with morphadorner. the annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. this text has not been fully proofread approx. 40 kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from 7 1-bit group-iv tiff page images. earlyprint project evanston,il, notre dame, in, st. louis, mo 2017 a96917 wing w355 thomason e265_4 estc r212426 99871050 99871050 123448 this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons 0 1.0 universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase 1, no. a96917) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set 123448) images scanned from microfilm: (thomason tracts ; 44:e265[4]) a brotherly and friendly censure of the errour of a dear friend and brother in christian affection, in an answer to his four questions lately sent abroad in print to the view of the world. published according to order. walker, george, 1581?-1651. [2], 10 p. printed for nathaniell webb, london, : 1645. attributed to george walker by wing. a reply to: prynne, william. foure serious questions of grand importance (wing p3959). annotation on thomason copy: after brother in title: "mr prin"; "by mr george walker"; "sep: 20". reproduction of the original in the british library. eng prynne, william, 1600-1669. -foure serious questions of grand importance. presbyterianism -early works to 1800. lord's supper -early works to 1800. excommunication -early works to 1800. a96917 r212426 (thomason e265_4). civilwar no a brotherly and friendly censure of the errour of a dear friend and brother in christian affection,: in an answer to his four questions lat walker, george 1645 7171 13 0 0 0 0 0 18 c the rate of 18 defects per 10,000 words puts this text in the c category of texts with between 10 and 35 defects per 10,000 words. 2007-05 tcp assigned for keying and markup 2007-05 aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images 2007-07 angela berkley sampled and proofread 2007-07 angela berkley text and markup reviewed and edited 2008-02 pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a brotherly and friendly censure of the errovr of a dear friend and brother in christian affection , in an answer to his four questions lately sent abroad in print to the view of the world . prov. 27. 5 , 6. open rebuke is better then secret love . faithfull are the wounds of a friend ; but the kisses of an enemy are deceitfull . published according to order . london , printed for nathanael webb , 1645. to the reader . christian reader , i will take it as a great favour from thee , if in reading this my answer thou wilt judge me to be , as indeed , and in truth i am , an adversary of the cause , and not of the person . he who is commonly reported to be the author of the foure questions in hand , is one whose person i have , from my first knowledge of him , dearly loved , honoured , and admired , for his excellent parts , profitable paines for the publike good , and his unwearied labours , and patient sufferings in the cause of christ . if he hath but once in all his life stumbled upon a bad cause , and pleaded for it , ( which is a common , and in some sort a necessary evil , hardly to be avoided by men of his vocation : ) let not this blemish his great learning , nor his judgement , sound in all other points , and least of all his approved piety and zeale for true religion . his name , which was happily concealed , and not annexed to these foure questions , shall ever be precious with me , and i hope with all gods people also , who truly feare the lord , long for the peace of zion , and unfeignedly seek the reformation of christs church , in all these three kingdomes . it is no small griefe to me , that i am compelled to move my pen in writing against any paper , published by an hand so deare to me : but in the cause of christ , and in a point so prejudiciall to the peace and pure reformation of the church , who can be silent ? the nearest relations of love which one christian can have to another in this world , must not hinder us , nor stay our hands , tongues or pens from performance of any duty , in which we all stand obliged to the lord christ our redeemer , and to his church our deare mother . and wherein can we be more necessitated to shew our duty to both , then in resisting with all our power whatsoever tends to the common and continuall prophanation of the holy sacrament of christs body and blood ? which cannot possibly be avoided , if the power of the keys , which christ hath given to his apostles and their successors , with a promise to be with them to the end of the world , be taken , under any pretence , out of the hands of the pastors and presbyters of the church , and no power left unto them to put by any sinners , openly scandalous and impenitent , from the holy communion nor to exclude such spirituall lepers , most loathsome and infections , from the sacred meeting at the lords holy table . who doth not see that the maine cause of the schismes and separations of divers godly and zealous christians from our communion , is the mixture of the prophane among the pious and godly , and the admission of persons openly scandalous to the holy sacrament ? this is that which hath moved many out of their blinde zeale to proclaime our church , a whore a strumpet , a synagogue of antichrist ; and our faithfull ministers , baals priests , and limmes of the beast . all true christians , and most of all the ministers of the word , are bound to put to their hands and shoulders for the removing of this stumbling-block and rock of offence out of the way : and i especially more then others , by reason of that singular love i bear to this deare brother erring in this point , and least i should offend against that commandement , lev. 19. 17. thou shalt not have thy brother in thine heart : thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour , and not suffer sin upon him , or bear sin for him . his paper is gone forth in publike , private rebuke will not hinder the hurt which it may doe : it hath given such publike wounds , as cannot be cured but by a publike remedy . the lord , the great healer of soules , give a speedy cure to the maladies of his church , and all our soule-sicknesses : to him be praise for ever and ever . a brotherly and friendly censure of the errour of a dear friend and brother in christian affection , in an answer to his foure questions lately sent abroad in print , to the view of the world . the inscription . four serious questions of grand importance , concerning excommunication and suspension from the sacrament ; propounded to the reverend assembly and all moderate christians , to prevent schismes , and settle vnity among us , in these divided times ; by a lover both of peace and truth . the answer to the inscription . when i did first meet with this paper of foure serious questions , fleeing abroad in print into every book-sellers shop in london , and ready upon the wing to take flight into all parts of the land ; that flying toll , which appeared to the prophet zecharie ( presently upon my viewing of the matter and scope thereof ) came to my minde , which is said to be a curse going forth over the face of the whole land , zech. 5. 3. for as that was a curse to punish , cut off and consume even to the timber and stones of the houses , into which it entered : so i feared this would be a corrupting curse in the heart , house and family of every one that entertained it with approbation , and did welcome it with applause , seeing it proclaims liberty for all sinners , though openly scandalous and impenitent , to come boldly to the lords supper , and to eat and drinke their own damnation , without controll of the pastors and presbyters of the church , whom christ hath ordained to have the rule over them , and to watch for their soules , heb. 13. 17. and whereas the questions are by the author professed to be serious , and of grand importance , propounded to the reverend assembly , for the setling of unity among us , in these divided times : first , i must professe that i am much grieved , that any learned christian brother should seriously urge such arguments ▪ so weak , so fallacious , and of so little strength , to maintaine so bad a cause as this , even the opening of a wide gap to libertinisme , and prophanation of the holy sacrament of christs body and blood , and giving this liberty to carnall and prophane men , of dissolute and scandalous life , that they without repulse may intrude themselves among godly communicants , to the just offence and scandall of the whole congregation : which they may have opportunity to doe at severall times , before the sentence of excommunication , can in a way of orderly proceeding ( especially when there are appeales made to higher consistories one after another , by obstinate and contentious offenders ) come forth against them , and be put in execution . secondly , i hope it will be made to appeare by this , and other answers of more able brethren , that here is no matter of grand importance in these questions , except encouragement of men to live in scandalous sins , without feare of suspension from the lords table , and to intrude boldly thereunto , which is a power of grand tyranny , and oppression of the consciences of ministers , may in any but an evil sense , be called a matter of grand importance . thirdly , i wish with all my heart , though now too late , that these questions , as in the title is pretended , had first been propounded to the venerable assembly . for i doubt not but they then should have received such a solid and satisfactory answer , as would have staid the publishing of them in print , and prevented the infection of the mindes of the vulgar people of weak judgement , and saved us the labour of composing antidotes against them . fourthly , i pity the author , in that he hath so erred from his intended scope of these questions : for his handling and carriage of them , is so farre from preventing schismes , and setling unity among us in those divided times : that on the contrary we finde by experience to our griefe , that they worke strongly in corrupt and perverse mindes , to the breeding , and increasing of schismes , to the disturbance of the desired reformation , in a point of greatest concernment , and to the raising up of divisions and dissensions , not onely among others , but also betwen the parliament and assembly , which is a strange practice , in a lover of peace and truth . the preface . the businesse of excommunication and sequestration from the sacrament , &c. the answer to the preface before the questions . 1. the businesse appeares plainely to be of no difficulty , unlesse men will be difficult , and through their owne averseness ▪ hardly perswaded to grant and establish that which gods word expressely holdeth forth and commendeth , and which we hope , and humbly pray , that the honourable houses of parliament will be willing to doe without difficulty . you your selfe doe quote divers texts of scripture which establish excommunication , and you presuppose it , in this your paper severall times , where you say none is to be suspended from the sacrament but such as are excommunicated , and in your excommunication ( for which you cite tertullian , schoolemen , and canonists , ) you are more rigorous then any presbyterians , whom you closely intimate to be indiscreet , passionate , oversevere and revengefull : which is a point of unchristian jealousy , and uncharitable surmise . for they dare not by excommunication exclude obstinate offenders from all ordinances , but suffer them to heare the word , though not in communion as members of the church , but as infidels may doe ; or else what hope can we have of an illiterate person excommunicated , that he will ever repent and be restored ? as for suspension from the sacrament , it is a thing more easy , in it selfe , and may be done orderly with lesse labour then excommunication , and with great ease and facility , and more frequently , and with good successe is practised in all the best reformed churches , which also our late abolished liturgy did allow largely to all pastors and church-wardens : and it had been more easy to them that were godly , and also more usuall in our congregations , if the proud prelates , fathers of prophanenesse , had not taken that power wholly to themselves : which intolerable usurpation of theirs , we hope is with themselves quite taken away : but not the power from the church , nor the lawfull exercise of it according to the rules of christ . secondly , whereas you make no medium between prophanation and scandall on the one side , and arbitrary , tyrannicall , papall domineering over the consciences and spirituall priviledges of christians on the other , herein passion and partiality seem to blinde you : for there is a plain open way between the two extremes , that is , the lawfull power which christ hath given to ecclesiasticall rulers , pastors and elders in his church , which all godly ministers , and all orthodox members of the assembly stand , plead , and petition for , that it may be backed and confirmed to them by civill sanction , even power to prove and try who are fit , and who are unworthy to come to the lords table , and by admitting the one , and puting back the other , after strict triall , and due proofe and examination , prophanation and scandall may easily be prevented , and arbitrary , tyranicall , papall domineering over the consciences of pastors , and godly christian people shall have no place in gods church ; scandalous proud impenitent sinners shall not come desperately to out-face christ and his ministers at his own table , nor have an action against ministers , who out of tender conscience , and fear of god , refuse to reach to them judgement and damnation , and so to partake with them in the guilt of christs body and blood ; the congregation of the godly shall not be scandalized , nor tyrannically forced either to countenance and harden the impenitent in their open wickednes ▪ by communicating with them , or to separate from our congregations , and abhor the ordinance of the lord , as men did in old eli's daies , when his wicked sons made them to abhor the offering of the lord , 1 sam. 2. 17. but on the contrary , let scandalous , obstinate sinners have liberty to intrude and come boldly to the lords table , and the pastors and elders have no power to keep back from them the holy signes and scals , which belong not to them , this is more then arbitrary , tyrannicall , papall domineering over the consciences of pastors , elders , and godly people . 3. but here me thinks you speak very untowardly , to the great offence of all godly people , against all christs ministers and ecclesiasticall rulers ; for in these words ( if it fall into indiscreet , over-severe , ambitious , passionate , or revengefull hands ) you either suppose that generally the hands of ministers and elders of christs church are such , and therefore they ought not to be trusted with power of suspension and excommunication ; which if you do , your heart is not f●ee from malignity against their holy calling , and the lord christ , who hath trusted them , will finde you out . or else your meaning is , that , as in the daies of the papacy and prelacy , so now it may again under presbyteriall church-government happen , that some of the rulers ecclesiasticall may act with such hands . what then ? do you infer thence that all of that high calling are to be abridged of that power ? a desperate inference , striking at the prerogative and power of parliaments , and all civil judges , and courts of justice . for upon the same grounds , viz. because under the papacy , parliaments made laws for suppressing true religion , and establishing idolatry and superstition , you may go about to abridge them . and under the late domineering prelacy and tyranny , judges wrested laws to take away the subjects birth-right and liberty , and to maintain oppression , and they made ( you know whose ) will and lust , law . and lawyers soothed them , and you know when , not one ( in all the bunch ) could be found , nor hired to plead in the just cause of an innocent . and even then many presbyters and ecclesiasticall persons stood out couragiously , and feared no persecutions , bonds or losses , in the cause both of religion and justice . why then will you not take away all power also of judging from judges , and of pleading and expounding the law from lawyers , and leave all civil government in the hands of the common people ? take heed , sir , you be not partiall and unequall to one side more then another . aretius hath given you a very good caveat , not to strive so earnestly against this point of christian discipline , in those words of his by you cited ( impossibile praesentibus moribus colla submittere ejusmodi disciplinae ) which words tell us , that the corrupt manners and profane lives of men desperately bent , in these evil times , to continue in their lewd and scandalous courses , make it impossible to bring them to submit their stiff necks to this discipline of excommunication , and suspension from the holy communion , which is christs light yoke to tractable christians . if you proceed to take part with such refractory opposers ( which , i hope , your religious heart will not permit you to do ) and spend your strength in so unworthy a cause , in hope by justifying these questions , to prevail against the votes of your best friends , and most faithfull lover which you have in this world , who truly honour you , and wish all good to you : i trust in god , you shall fail of your hopes , as aretius did in his judgement , where speaking of this discipline set up by some in the churches of germany , he seems to deride it in those words by you rehearsed , cecidit in spongiam ridiculus mus ; for now this despised mouse is become an high mountain in all the best reformed churches of germany . 4. as for your addresse to the assembly , whom you charge unjustly with falling into extreams , and indeed calumniate them , as if they seemed to affect a great lording power over the consciences and priviledges of their christian brethren , which of right belongs not unto them , usurping that to themselves , which they vehemently declaimed against , and caused to be taken quite away from the pope and prelates . to this i answer , that you utterly mistake the matter . for they abhorre all affectation and usurpation of lording power over the consciences of any christians , but have condemned it in the pope and prelates ; and their humble petition to the houses of parliament is ; that none may usurp lordly power , as the proud prelates did , over them , and the people of their flock , compelling them either against their consciences , and with great offence and scandall to the godly , to admit scandalous sinners to the lords table , and to profane the sacrament of christs body and blood , by giving the seals thereof to them , or else to decline the administration of that holy ordinance , and their ministerie , chusing affliction rather then iniquity . in plain truth , this is the lordly tyrannicall power over their consciences , and the iron yoke which you in your question seek to lay on them . after the preface answered , i proceed to your questions ; the first of which is , quest . 1. whether those places of scripture , matth. 18. 16 , 17. & 1 cor. 5. 5. 11. & 1 tim. 1. 20. joh. 9. 22. 32. & 12. 42. & 16. 2. & ●thess . 3. 14. & 2 joh. 10. 11. & joh. 3. 10. & numb. 12. 14. & deut. 23. 1. be properly meant of excommunication , which you take upon you to prove from fathers , school-men and others , to be an exclusion from all ordinances , or of suspension from the lords supper onely . the first you hold , and we will grant it to you . the latter you deny , and i affirm , that it is here also meant inclusively , but not only . the first place you seem to weaken and enervate , by intimating that our saviour speaks of private personall trespasse between man and man , and not of publike scandalous sins against the congregation , and that the censure is private not publike , because it is said , let him be ( not to the whole church and all others , but ) to thee , as an heathen man and a publican ; and you quote , luk. 17. 3 , 4. to prove that such private trespasses must be forgiven , if seventy times seven : which no man will deny , if the trespasser repent , as often as he offends . but now suppose be stand out and persist in his sin , and scorn private admonition ; yea , when he is convented before the church , he will not hear nor obey publike admonition , doe you not think that this is publike scandall against the cong●egation , and deserves excommunication ? surely , if it were not so , our saviour would not have passed against it that dreadfull censure of excommunication , saying , let him be to thee as an heathen man and a publican . and if to the private person for his private wrong , much more to all others in the congregation , for publike contumacy and scandalous obstinacy in his sin against the church . it is a dangerous doctrine to teach any private person to censure and judge a brother to be in the state of an ethnike , and as a publican , for a private trespasse ; if for his contumacie against the whole church , and obstinacie in that sin , the sentence of excommunication be not by the church publikely given against him . whereas you make it a branch of your question . what warrant there is in scripture for ministers to suspend men from the lords supper only , and not from the congregation , and all other publike ordinances with it . i answer this very easily : that because suspension from the sacrament is a step , yea the next degree to excommunication ( as reason , and the practice of all the best churches of christ doe teach us ) the scriptures which warrant excommunication , do also warrant it as a profitable and necessary means , either to prevent that dreadfull sentence by bringing the sinner to repent and be ashamed , or to make his impenitency more evident and notorious , and to justifie the more the excommunication of him . but i marvell , that you should thinke it so strange and unwarrantable a thing to suspend a man from a sacrament , who hath communion in all other ordinances of the church , seeing it was the practice of all the ancient churches to exclude the catechumeni from baptisme , till by catechising and hearing the word publikely preached they were better instructed . and how dare you dispute against that which is resolved in this present parliament ? to wit , that ignorant , and some scandalous persons shall not be admitted to the lords table . q● . your second question is the same which you propounded last before as a branch of the first : belike you are well pleased and affected with it , and have some thing more to say in urging it . i omit what i have answered before ; and here i doe first adde , that christian compassion , and moderation in dealing with perverse men is commended and commanded in the scripture , 2 tim. 2. 24 ▪ 25 , 26. & jude 22 , 23. and this is a maine point of compassion and moderation in ecclesiasticall rulers , to try all inferiour meanes ; whereof suspension from the lords table is one ; before they proceed to the last and greatest censure of excommunication . though the popes and prelats excommunications , which belike doe still runne in your minde , were brutish thunderbolts thrown out upon every small occasion presently , and like the fooles dagger which is out to stab , at every crosse word , and makes but a word and a blow : yet gods word teacheth godly wise pastors and presbyters more meeknesse and gravity , in proceeding to the utmost censure , that is , first to reprove , admonish and rebuke , and if those more gentle meanes doe not prevaile , then to suspend from the sacrament ; which by experience is often found to humble stubborne offenders , and bring them to repentance , and so prevent cutting off from the congregation ; and all godly christians doe here see a double warrant of divine authority . first , from gods word : secondly , from his blessing of this proceeding with good successe . this is my first answer . secondly , to your bold assertion , that in the old testament we reade of no circumcised person ever debarred from the passeover by the priests , that was desirous to eat it . i answer , that it is as void of truth , as full of boldnesse : for levit. 22. 3. & numb 9. 5. and divers other places . every circumcised person who was legally unclean , is forbiden to eate of the passeover , or any holy thing , under pain of being cut off , and might not eat of it till he was cleansed and rightly prepared as appeares , 2 chron. 30. 3 the very chapter by you quoted , according to the expresse words of the law , numb. 9. 11. and therefore much more ought baptized persons , now under the gospell , who are manifestly unclean with the spirituall defilement of scandalous sin , be suspended from the more holy sacrament of christs body and blood , untill he be cleansed by repentance . thirdly , to the instance of judas whom our saviour knew to be a devil and a traytour . i answer first , that judas was not admitted to the sacrament , for judas went out before the supper was ended , immediatly upon his receiving of the sop , joh 13. 30. but our saviour did not ordaine this sacrament till after supper , luk. 22. 20 when he had supped , 1. cor. 11. 25. secondly , if judas had been admitted , it makes nothing to the matter , for judas professed faith in christ , and in his outward conversation appeared so unblameable , that when our saviour told them , that one of them twelve should betray him , they did not suspect judas more then themselves , but every one asked , saying , master , is it i ? and indeed let a man be an hypocrite , traytor or devil inwardly , the minister is not to judge of such secret things which belong to god , but to looke to the outward profession , life and conversation , and accordingly deal with them . fourthly , s. pauls admonishing of the corinthians of the great danger of unworthy receiving , namely , that it was eating damnation to themselves , and making them guilty of christs body and blood ; and thereupon enjoyning a strict examination of every one before he eat of that bread , and drinke of that cup , doth sufficiently instruct the elders , to put back all such as did outwardly appeare to be scandalous impenitent sinners , and so most unworthy to receive the holy signes and seales of the lords body and blood . fifthly , to that question of yours , whether a minister hath not discharged his full duty and conscience , if he doth admonish his flock of the danger of unworthy receiving , and seriously dehort such as he deemes unworthy , from receiving the sacrament , till they become more fit to participate , under paine of eating and drinking their own damnation and other judgements ? i answer , that this is no full discharge , neither doe those scriptures which you quote , ezek , 33. 1 , 2 , &c. act. 20. 16. or ours and french liturgies prove any such thing in this case . for they who suspend scandalous persons , doe also admonish all others to examine themselves , and mention the danger of unworthy receiving , that none unprepared may presume . it is a discharge of a ministers duty , when he admonisheth onely of the danger of a sin , in which when it is committed , the party admonished hath onely an hand : but here the minister is partaker of the sin , and as much guilty by giving , as the other by receiving . i pray you tell me , sir , if you have a cup in your hand which will poyson and kill a sick distemperd man if he drinke of it , will you give it unto him if he desires it ? and doe you thinke it enough to admonish him that it is deadly poyson ? and first dehort him from drinking of it , and then immediatly reach it to him , with intent , that he shall drinke of it ? i perswade my selfe , that as he shall perish , so his blood shall be required at your hands , and that you shall as guilty hold up your hand at the barre for it . quest . 3. the third question intimates that you conceive unworthy hearing of the word to be as great , as dangerous , as damning a sin , as unworthy receiving of the sacrament : that ministers are no more partakers of other mens sins , not more guilty of their sins , and of giving holy things to doggs , and casting pearles before swine , by giving the sacrament of christs body and blood to unworthy receivers who are openly scandalous , then by preaching the word to unprofitable hearers , to whom he is the favour of death unto death . and hereupon you would inferre , that ministers may as well refuse to preach the word unto their people , lest it should not profit them , as they may refuse to give the sacrament to scandalous persons , who eat their own damnation . to this i answer ▪ that there is vast difference between these two , preaching the word to unprofitable hearers , and giving the sacrament to persons openly scandalous , impenitent and prophane receivers . first a minister preacheth the word to many that are unprofitable hearers , not knowing them to be such , and in hope to convert and profit them , if there be any such in the auditorie , and so also he gives the sacrament to some unworthy receivers , unwillingly , not knowing them to be such : and in such cases he is blamelesse : but if he gives the holy seales of christs body and blood to scandalous impenitent persons , he knowes that he gives them damnation to eat and drink , and he is halfe sharer with them in the sinfull act . and therefore though the sin of unworthy hear●●● of the word is as dangerous and damning , as unworthy receiving of the sacrament , to the hearen and receivers : yet to the minister in the one , to weet , preaching without knowledge of the hurt which some receive by it , there is no fault ; but in giving to the scandalous receiver he wittingly acts and partakes of the profanation of the holy ordinance . secondly , the lords holy table in the holy communion , is for the time a place of gods more speciall presence then the common auditory , and there we come neerer to god , and receive with the word and promises particularly applyed to us , the seales of our communion with christ , and of our right and interest in him and all his benefits . but preaching to a common auditory , is only a generall propounding of the word and promises to all , not a particular applying of it to any , especially that hear unprofitably : for that were giving holy things to doggs : therefore there is more danger and greater sinne in admitting unworthy receivers to the lords table . a small errour in such an holy ordinance doth provoke the lord to wrath , who will be sanctified in them that come neere to him , as appears in aarons two sonnes , levit. 10. ● , 2 , 3. & vzza● , 2 sam. 6. 7. thirdly , preaching the word to such as are openly knowne to be scorners of the gospell , and persecutours of the preachers , and doe more rage and are hardened thereby , is a prophanation of an holy thing , and a casting of pearles before swine , which our saviour expressely forbids , matth. 7. 6. & matth. 10. 14. bids his apostles turne from such , and shake off the dust from their feet , as a testimony against them ; and so paul and barnabas did , act. 13. 51. fourthly , in preaching the word , the minister of christ propounds the truth to many wicked men generally , but doth not particularly apply any word of comfort , or promise of blessing to any but profitable hearers , and upon condition of repentance : but in giving the sacrament to known impenitent persons , he preacheth most palpable lyes against his own conscience , when he saith . the body of christ was broken for you , and his blood wasshed for you : and therefore the points urged in this question are very dangerous , and divers scriptures herein quoted , are wrested and grossely perverted . quest . 4. the fourth question ( upon that received truth , that god only knows the secrets of mens hearts , which ministers doe not , but mistake hypocrites for worthy receivers , and more honest simple weak men , for unfit communicants ) would inferre , that ministers ought not to have power to judge or censure . i● which reasoning ; first , i finde grosse absurdity : for what can be more ridiculous then to argue , that because ministers know not secret things which belong to god , therefore they know not revealed and manifest things , as open scandalous sins , and impenitency professed in the face of the church , and by consequent may not judge and censure them by the word of god , which doth plainly reveal their wickednesse to them and the whole consistory . secondly , observe how the scriptures , which forbid rash judgement concerning mens estate before god , which is secret , or concerning mens last end , and the like , as matth. 7. 1. luk 6. 37. rom. 14. 4. are wrested to overthrow all judging and censuring in generall , both civil and ecclesiasticall . thirdly , how vainly the power of god is abused , to prove that he will in the midst of a profane wicked act change notorious sinners hearts in a moment , which if he should doe , how shall these sinners manifest their repentance in a moment to the church , which they have offended , that they may he admitted orderly , and not rashly without just ground or satisfaction ? fourthly , the breaking of a bruised reed , and quenching of smoking flax , is most miserably applied to the suspending of proud , refractorie , impenitent sinners from the holy sacrament ; between which two sorts of persons and actions there is as vast a difference as between heaven and hell , light and darknesse . for the bruised reed signifies men of broken heart and contrite spirit , groaning under the burden of their sins , and fleeing to christ for ease : and smoking flax signifies such as have a weak but true faith , which like a spark in flax sheweth by smoking that there is fire , striving to break forth , and to shew light of holy life . now how contrary these are to proud , scandalous impenitent sinners , let reasonable men judge ; the first are such as the publicans and sinners , who came to christ repenting and confessing their sins , and by him were received , cherished and comforted ; the latter are like those trees which brought forth no good , but bad fruit , unto the root of which the axe was laid , to hew them down , and cast them into the fire . the not breaking nor quenching the first is a point of mercy , and a work of christ ; the tolerating of the other and cherishing and encouraging them in their scandalous sins , by admitting them to the holy communion of christs body and blood , is a point of great impiety , and a diabolicall act of profanation . here therefore the scriptures are dangerously abused and wrested , where scandalous , impenitent and refractory persons are confounded with humble penitent sinners , breathing after comfort and communion with christ . fifthly , here is a strange supposition , that all , bearing the name of christians , even scandalous , impenitent sinners , are invited to the sacrament , and are bound to come and receive it under pain of sin and contempt . i am sure the french and our liturgies before cited doe admonish all impenitent persons to abstain , lest they eat and drink their own damnation . and the scriptures here quoted , 1 cor. 11. & heb. 10. 29. do shew that unworthy wicked sinners doe by unworthy receiving count the blood of the covenant an unholy thing . therefore to inferre that no minister in point of conscience can refuse to give the sacrament to such , is to conclude , quidlibet ex quolibet . but whereas it is added , that ministers may not refuse any christian , not actually excommunicated , the sacrament , if he desires to receive it , in case he professe sincere repentance for sins past , and promise newnesse of life for the time to come : this we embrace with all our hearts , and if he obtrude on us no other but only such , we will not be so uncharitable as to judge them unworthy , neither need we fear to partake of their sin , or suspect their unworthy receiving . for our rule is to proceed with men according to that which manifestly appears , whether it be in truth or in hypocrise ; if any so professing doth eat unworthily , he eats damnation to himself , not to the ministers , who therein doe nothing against their consciences , but proceed according to the judgement of charity , and he shall bear his own burthen . the ministers act of administration to them who professe sincere repentance , is an holy and divine institution ; but to open scandalous impenitent persons , it is a manifest profanation , and they are partakers in the guilt and punishment . the conclusion being the result of the former arguments , which are plainly shewed to be weak and of no strength , doth of it self fall to the ground and vanish . for i have shewed , that unworthy hearing and unworthy receiving are equally sins in the hearers and receivers ; but in the preachers of the word and the givers of the sacraments it is farre otherwise : the preacher doth onely propound the word generally , and not falsely apply the promises of blessing and life to any particular scandalous persons , but upon condition of their beleeving repentance and obedience . if he knows any in the auditory , who are scorners of the word , and haters and persecutours of him and his doctrine , he denounceth a curse from god against them , and desires them to keep away , and holds himself guilty of sin , if he should cast the pearl of the gospel before such swine , when they are alone and separated from other hearers : he will not wittingly be to any the savour of death unto death . but the minister who gives the sacrament to open scandalous sinners in their impenitency , doth wittingly profane gods holy ordinance , and lyeth against his conscience in saying that christs body was broken , and his blood shed for them , and makes himself guilty of their blood , while he gives them wittingly to eat and drink their own damnation , as is before shewed . whatsoever power takes from christs ministers the lawfull and necessary liberty to exclude from the lords table scandalous sinners openly impenitent , that is such a transcendent arbitrary , unlimited power , as lordly prelates sometimes exercised , and no lesse then tyrannie and oppression of the consciences both of ministers and their godly people . and therefore here the divines of the assembly are charged most unjustly and calumniously , who have humbly desired , by way of petition to both the honourable houses of parliament , that their consciences may not have this yoke of oppression laid on them , which will force them either to profane the sacrament of christs body and blood , by giving it to unworthy persons , or to decline their ministery and administration of that holy ordinance , chusing affliction rather then iniquity . finis . a discourse concerning the power of excommunication in a christian church, by way of appendix to the irenicum by edward stillingfleet ... stillingfleet, edward, 1635-1699. 1662 approx. 91 kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from 19 1-bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : 2004-08 (eebo-tcp phase 1). a61546 wing s5583 estc r38297 17288836 ocm 17288836 106329 this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons 0 1.0 universal . the text can be copied, modified, 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(eebo-tcp ; phase 1, no. a61546) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set 106329) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, 1641-1700 ; 1103:8) a discourse concerning the power of excommunication in a christian church, by way of appendix to the irenicum by edward stillingfleet ... stillingfleet, edward, 1635-1699. stillingfleet, edward, 1635-1699. irenicum. [2], 31 p. printed for henry mortlock ..., london : 1662. reproduction of original in the cambridge university library. includes bibliographical references. created by converting tcp files to tei p5 using tcp2tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between 1473 and 1700 available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the 25,363 texts created during phase 1 of the project have been released into the public domain as of 1 january 2015. anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. 5% (or 5 pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of 100 instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level 4 of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p5, characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng church of england -government. excommunication. church polity. 2004-02 tcp assigned for keying and markup 2004-03 spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images 2004-06 melanie sanders sampled and proofread 2004-06 melanie sanders text and markup reviewed and edited 2004-07 pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a discourse concerning the power of excommunication in a christian church ▪ by way of appendix to the irenicum . by edward stillingfleet , rector of sutton in bedfordshire . london , printed for henry mortlock , at the sign of the phoenix in st. pauls church-yard , neer the little north-door . 1662. a discourse concerning the power of excommunication in a christian church . it is a matter of daily observation and experience in the world , how hard it is to keep the eyes of the understanding clear in its judgement of things , when it is too far engaged in the dust of controversie . it being so very difficult to well manage an impetuous pursuit after any opinion , nothing being more common then to see men outrun their mark , and through the force of their speed to bee carryed as farr beyond it , as others in their opinion fall short of it . there is , certainly , a kind of ebriety of the mind , as well as of the body , which makes it so unstable and pendulous , that it oft times reeles from one extream unto the quite contrary . this , as it is obvious in most eager controvertists of all ages , so especially in such , who have discovered the falsity of an opinion they were once confident of , which they think they can never after run farr enough from : so that while they start at an apparition they so much dread , they run into those untroden paths , wherein they lose both themselves and the truth they sought for . thus wee find it to be in the present controversie , for many out of their just zeal against the extravagancies of those who scrued up church power to so high a peg , that it was thought to make perpetuall dis●ord with the common-wealth , could never think themselves free from so great an inconvenience , till they had melted down all spiritual power into the civil state , and dissolved the church into the common-wealth . but that the world may see i have not been more forward to assert the just power of the magistrate in ecclesiasticalls , as well as civills , then to defend the fundamental rights of the church , i have taken this opportunity , more fully to explain and vindicate that part of the churches power , which lies in reference to offenders ? it being the main thing struck at by those who are the followers of that noted physitian , who handled the church so ill , as to deprive her of her expulsive faculty of noxious humours , and so left her under a miserere mei . i shall therefore endeavour to give the church her due , as well as caesar his , by making good this following principle or hypothesis , upon which the whole hinge of this controversie turnes , viz. that the power of inflicting censures upon offenders in a christian church , is a fundamentall right , resulting from the constitution of the church , as a society by jesus christ , and that the seat of this power is in those officers of the church , who have derived their power originally from the founder of this society , and act by vertue of the laws of it . for the cleare stating of this controversie , it will bee necessary to explain , what that power is , which i attribute to the church , and in what notion the church is to be considered as it exerciseth this power . first , concerning the proper notion of power , by it i cannot see any thing else to bee understood , then a right of governing , or ordering things which belong to a society . and so power implies only a moral faculty in the person enjoying it , to take care ne quid civitas detrimenti capiat , whereby it is evident that every well constituted society must suppose a power within its self of ordering things belonging to its welfare , or else it were impossible , either the being or the rights and priviledges of a society could bee long preserved . power then in its general and abstracted notion , doth not necessarily import either meer authority , or proper coaction , for these to any impartial judgement , will appear to bee rather the severall modes whereby power is exercised , then any proper ingredients of the specifick nature of it ; which in generall , imports no more then a right to govern a constituted society , but how that right shall bee exercised , must bee resolved not from the notion of power , but from the nature and constitution of that particular society in which it is lodged and inherent . it appears then from hence to bee a great mistake and abuse of well natured readers , when all power is necessarily restrained , either to that which is properly coercive , or to that which is meerly arbitrary and onely from consent . the originall of which mistake is , the stating the notion of power from the use of the word , either in ancient roman authors , or else in the civil laws , both which are freely acknowledged to bee strangers to the exercise of any other power , then that which is meerly authoritative and perswasive , or that which is coactive and penal . the ground of which is , because they were ignorant of any other way of conveyance of power , besides external force and arbitrary consent , the one in those called legal societies or civitates , the other collegia and hetaeriae . but to us that do acknowledge that god hath a right of commanding men to what duty hee please himself , and appointing a society upon what terms best please him , and giving a power to particular persons to govern that society , in what way shall tend most to advance the honour of such a society , may easily bee made appear , that there is a kind of power neither properly coactive nor meerly arbitrary , viz. such a one as immediately results from divine institution , and doth suppose consent to submit to it as a necessary duty in all the members of this society . this power , it is evident , is not meerly arbitrary either in the governours or members , for the governours derive their power , or right of governing from the institution of christ and are to bee regulated by his laws in the execution of it , and the members , though their consent bee necessarily supposed , yet that consent is a duty in them , and that duty doth imply their submission to the rulers of this society : neither can this power bee called coactive , in the sense it is commonly taken , for coactive power , and external force are necessary correlates to each other , but wee suppose no such thing as a power of outward force to bee given to the church as such , for that properly belongs to a common-wealth . but the power which i suppose to bee lodged in the church , is such a power as depends upon a law of a superiour , giving right to govern , to particular persons over such a society , and making it the duty of all members of it to submit unto it , upon no other penalties , then the exclusion of them from the priviledges , which that society enjoys . so that supposing such a society , as the church is , to bee of divine institution , and that christ hath appointed officers to rule it , it necessarily follows , that those officers must derive their power , i. e. their right of governing this society , not meerly from consent and confederation of parties , but from that divine institution , on which the society depends . the want of understanding the right notion of power in the sense here set down , is certainiy the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of erastianisme , and that which hath given occasion to so many to question any such thing as power in the church , especially , when the more zealous then judicious defenders of it have rather chosen to hang it upon some doubtful places of scripture , then on the very nature and constitution of the christian church , as a society instituted by jesus christ. this being then the nature of power in general , it is , i suppose clear , that an outward coactive force is not necessary in order to it ; for if some may have a right to govern , and others may bee obliged to obedience to those persons antecedently , to any civil constitution ; then such persons have a just power , to inflict censures upon such as transgress the rules of the society , without any outward force . it is here very impertinent to dispute , what effects such censures can have upon wilful persons without a coactive power ; if i can prove , that there is a right to inflict them in church officers , and an obligation to submit to them in all offenders , i am not to trouble my self with the event of such things as depend upon divine institutions . i know it is the great objection of the followers of erastus , that church censures are inflicted upon persons unwilling to receive them , and therefore must imply external and coactive force , which is repugnant to the nature of a church . but this admits ( according to the principles here established ) of a very easie solution ; for i deny not , that churchpower goes upon consent , but then it s very plain here was an antecedent consent to submit to censures in the very entrance into this society , which is sufficient to denominate it a voluntary act of the persons undergoing it ; and my reason is this , every person entring into a society , parts with his own freedome and liberty , as to matters concerning the governing of it , and professeth submission to the rules and orders of it : now a man having parted with his freedome already , cannot reassume it when hee please , for then hee is under an obligation to stand to the covenants made at his entrance ; and consequently his undergoing what shall bee laid upon him by the laws of this society , must bee supposed to bee voluntary as depending upon his consent at first entrance , which in all societies must bee supposed to hold still , else there would follow nothing but confusion in all societies in the world , if every man were at liberty to break his covenants when any thing comes to lye upon him according to the rules of the society , which hee out of some private design would bee unwilling to undergo . thus much may serve to settle aright the notion of power ; the want of understanding which , hath caused all the confusion of this controversie . the next thing is , in what notion wee are to consider the church , which is made the subject of this power ? as to which wee are to consider ; this power either as to it 's right or in actu primo , or as to it's exercise , or in actu secundo : now if wee take this power as to the fundamental right of it , then it belongs to that universal church of christ , which subsists as a visible society , by vertue of that law of christ , which makes an owning the profession of christianity the duty of all church members . if wee consider this power in the exercise of it then ( it being impossible that the universal church should perform the executive part of this power relating to offences ) i suppose it lodged in that particular society of christians , which are united together in one body in the community of the same government ; but yet , so as , that the administration of this power , doth not belong to the body of the society considered complexly , but to those officers in it , whose care and charge it is , to have a peculiar oversight and inspection over the church , and to redress all disorders in it . thus the visive faculty is fundamentally lodged in the soul , yet all exterior acts of sight are performed by the eyes , which are the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 overseers of the body , as the other are of the church , so that the exercise and administration of this power , belongs to the special officers and governours of the church , none else being capable of exercising this power of the church as such , but they on whom it is setled by the founder of the church it 's self . this society of the church may bee again considered , either as subsisting without any influence from the civil power , or as it is owned by , and incorporated into a christian state . i therefore demand , whether it bee absolutely necessary for the subsistence of this christian society , to bee upheld by the civil power or no ? and certainly none who consider the first and purest ages of the christian church , can give any entertainment to the affirmative , because then the church flourished in it's greatest purity , not only when not upheld , but when most violently opposed by the civil power ; if so , then it 's being united with the civil state is only accidental , as to the constitution of a church ; and if this bee only accidental , then it must bee supposed furnished with every thing requisite to it 's well ordering , antecedenty to any such union , and abstractly from it . for can wee imagine our blessed saviour should institute a society , and leave it destitute of means to uphold it's self , unless it fell into the hands of the civil power ? or that hee left every thing tending thereto , meerly to prudence , and the arbritrary constitutions of the persons joyning together in this society ? did our saviour take care there should bee a society , and not provide for means to uphold it ? nay , it is evident , hee not only appointed a society , but officers to rule it ; had those officers then a right to govern it or no , by vertue of christs institution of them ? if not , they were rather bibuli than caesares , cyphers than consuls in the church of god. if they had a power to govern , doth not that necessarily imply a right to inflict censures on offenders ? unless 〈◊〉 will suppose that either there can bee no offenders in a christian church , or that those offenders do not violate the laws of the society , or there bee some prohibition for them to exercise their power over them ( which is to give power with one hand , and take it away with the other ) or that this power cannot extend so far as to exclude any from the priviledges of the church , which is the thing to bee discussed . having thus cleared our way , i now come to the resolution of the question its self , in order to which i shall endeavour to demonstrate with what evidence the subject is capable of these following things . first that the church is a peculiar society in its own nature , distinct from the common-wealth . secondly , that the power of the church over its members doth not arise from meer confederation or consent of parties . thirdly , that this power of the church doth extend to the exclusion of offenders from the priviledges of it . fourthly , that the fundamental rights of the church do not escheat to the common-wealth upon their being united in a christian state. if these principles bee established , the churches power will stand upon them , as on a firm and unmoveable basis . i begin with the first . that the church is a peculiar society in its own nature , distinct from the common-wealth , which i prove by these arguments . 1 those societies , which are capable of subsisting apart from each other , are really , and in their own nature , distinct from one another , but so it is with the church and common-wealth . for there can bee no greater evidence of a reall distinction than mutual separation ; and i think the proving the possibility of the souls existing , separate from the body , is one of the strongest arguments to prove it to bee a substance really distinct from the body , to which it is united ; although wee are often fain to go the other way to work , and to prove possibility of separation from other arguments evincing the soul to bee a distinct substance ; but the reason of that is for want of evidence as to the state of separate souls , and their visible existence which is repugnant to the immateriality of their natures . but now , as to the matter in hand , wee have all evidence desirable , for wee are not put to prove possibil●●y of separation , meerly from the different constitution of the things united , but wee have evidence to sense of it , that the churh hath subsisted when it hath been not onely separated from but persecuted by all civil power . it is with many men as to the union of church and state , as it is with others , as to the union of the soul and body , when they observe how close the union is , and how much the soul makes use of the animal spirits in most of its operations , and how great a sympathy there is between them , that , like hyppocrates his twins , they laugh and weep ' together , they are shrewdly put to it , how to fancy the soul to bee any thing else then a more vigorous mode of matter ; so these observing how close an union and dependence there is between the church and state in a christian common-wealth , and how much the church is beholding to the civil power in the administration of its functions , are apt to think that the church is nothing but a higher mode of a common-wealth , considered as christian. but when it is so evident that the church hath , and may subsist supposing it abstracted from all civil power , it may bee a sufficient demonstration that however neer they may be when united , yet they are really and in their own nature , distinct from each other . which was the thing to bee proved . 2 those are distinct societies , which have every thing distinct in their nature from each other , which belong to the constitution or government of them ; but this is evident , as to the church and common-wealth , which will appear , because their charter is distinct , or that which gives them their being as a society : civil societies are founded upon the necessity of particular mens parting with their peculiar rights , for the preservation of themselves , which was the impulsive cause of their entring into societies , but that which actually speaks them to bee a society , is the mutual consent of the several parties joyning together , whereby they make themselves to bee one body ; and to have one common interest . so cicero de repub. defines populus , to bee caetus multitudinis , juris consensu et utilitatis communione sociatus . there is no doubt , but gods general providence , is as evidently seen in bringing the world into societies and making them live under government , as in disposing all particular events which happen in those societies ; but yet the way , which providence useth in the constitution of these societies , is by inclining men to consent to associate for their mutual benefit and advantage : so that natural reason consulting for the good of mankinde , as to those rights which men enjoy in common with each other , was the main foundation upon which all civil societies were erected . wee finde no positive law enacting the beeing of civil societies , because nature it's self would prompt men for their own conveniencies to enter into them . but the ground and foundation of that society , which we call a church , is a matter which natural reason and common notions can never reach to ; and therefore an associating for the preserving of such , may bee a philosophical society , but a christian it cannot bee : and that would make a christian church to bee nothing else but a society of essens or an 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of pythagorians , who do either not understand or not consider whereon this christian society is founded ; for it is evident they look on it as a meerly voluntary thing , that is not at all setled by any divine positive law. the truth is , there is no principle more consistent with the opinion of those who deny any church power in a christian state , then this is , and it is that , which every one , who will make good his ground must bee driven to ; for it is evident , that in matters meerly voluntary , and depending only on consideration , such things being lyable to a magistrates power , there can be no plea from mutual consent to justifie any opposition to supream authority in a common-wealth . but then , how such persons can bee christians , when the magistrates would have them to bee otherwise , i cannot understand ; nor how the primitive martyrs were any other then a company of fools or mad-men , who would hazard their lives , for that which was a meer arbritrary thing , and which they had no necessary obligation upon them to profess . mistake mee not , i speak not here of meer acts of discipline , but of the duty of outward professing christianity ; if this bee a duty , then a christian society is setled by a positive law , if it bee not a duty , then they are fools who suffer for it : so that this question resolved into it's principles , leads us higher than wee think for , and the main thing in debate must bee , whether there bee an obligation upon conscience for men to associate in the profession of christianity or no ? if there bee , then the church , which is nothing else but such an association , is established upon a positive law of christ ; if there bee not , then those inconveniencies follow , which are already mentioned . wee are told indeed by the leviathan with confidence enough , that no precepts of the gospel are law , till enacted by civil authority ; but it is little wonder , that hee , who thinks an immaterial substance implies a contradiction , should think as much of calling any thing a law , but what hath a civil sanction . but i suppose all those , who dare freely own a supreme and infinite essence to have been the creator , and to bee the ruler of the world , will acknowledge his power to oblige conscience , without being beholding to his own creature to enact his laws , that men might bee bound to obey them . was the great god fain to bee beholding to the civil authority hee had over the jewish common-wealth ( their government being a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ) to make his laws obligatory to the consciences of the jews ? what , had not they their beings from god ? and can there bee any greater ground of obligation to obedience , than from thence ? whence comes civil power to have any right to oblige men more , than god , considered as governour of the world , can have ? can there bee indeed no other laws according to the leviathans hypothesis , but only the law of nature and civil laws ? but i pray whence comes the obligation to either of these , that these are not as arbitrary , as all other agreements are ? and is it not as strong a dictate of nature as any can bee ( supposing that there is a god ) that a creature which receives it's being from another , should bee bound to obey him , not only in the resultancies of his own nature , but with the arbitrary constitutions of his will : was adam bound to obey god or no , as to that positive precept of eating the forbiden fruit , if no civil sanction had been added to that law ? the truth is , such hypotheses as these are , when they are followed close home , will bee found to kennel in that black den , from whence they are loath to bee thought to have proceeded . and now , supposing , that every full declaration of the will of christ , as to any positive institution , hath the force and power of a law upon the consciences of all , to whom it is sufficiently proposed : i proceed to make appear , that such a divine positive law there is , for the existence of a church , as a visible body and society in the world ; by which i am far from meaning such a conspicuous society , that must continue in a perpetual visibility in the same place ; i finde not the least intimation of any such thing in scripture ; but that there shall alwaies bee some where or other , in the world , a society owning and professing christianity , may bee easily deduced from thence ; and especially on this account , that our saviour hath required this , as one of the conditions in order to eternal felicity , that all those who beleeve in their hearts , that jesus is the christ , must likewise confess him with their mouths to the world : and therefore , as long as there are men to beleeve in christ , there must bee men that will not bee ashamed to associate , on the account of the doctrine hee hath promulged to the world . that one phrase in the new testament , so frequently used by our blessed saviour , of the kingdome of heaven ( importing a gospel state ) doth evidently declare a society , which was constituted by him , on the principles of the gospel covenant . wherefore should our saviour call disciples , and make apostles , and send them abroad with full commission to gather and initiate disciples by baptism ; did hee not intend a visible society for his church ? had it not been enough for men to have cordially beleeved the truth of the gospel , but they must bee enter'd in a solemn visible way , and joyn in participation of visible symbols of bread and wine , but that our saviour required external profession and society in the gospel as a necessary duty , in order to obtaining the priviledges conveyed by his magna charta in the gospel . i would fain know , by what argument wee can prove , that any humane legislator , did ever intend a common-wealth to bee governed according to his mode , by which wee cannot prove that christ by a positive law , did command such a society , as should be governed in a visible manner , as other societies are ? did he not appoint officers himself in the church , and that of many ranks and degrees ? did hee not invest those officers with authority to rule his church ? is it not laid as a charge on them , to take heed to that flock over which god had made them overseers ? are there not rules laid down for the peculiar exercise of their government over the church in all the parts of it ? were not these officers admitted into their function by a most solemn visible rite of imposition of hands ? and are all these solemn transactions a meer peece of sacred pageantry ? and they will appear to bee little more , if the society of the church bee a meer arbitrary thing , depending onely upon consent and confederation , and not subsisting by vertue of any charter from christ , or some positive law , requiring all christians to joyn in church society together . but if now from hence it appears ( as certainly it cannot but appear ) that this society of the church doth subsist by vertue of a divine positive law , then it must of necessity be distinct from any civil society , and that on these accounts , first because there is an antecedent obligation on conscience to associate on the account of christianity , whether humane laws prohibit or command it . from whence , of necessity it follows , that the constitution of the church is really different from that of the common-wealth ; because whether the common-wealth bee for , or against this society , all that own ir are bound to profess it openly , and declare themselves members of it . whereas were the church and common-wealth really and formally the same , all obligation to church society would arise meerly from the legislative power of the common-wealth . but now there being a divine law , binding in conscience , whose obligation cannot bee superseded by any humane law , it is plain and evident , where are such vastly different obligations , there are different powers ; and in this sense i know no incongruity in admitting imperium in imperio , if by it wee understand no external coactive power , but an internal power laying obligation on conscience , distinct from the power lodged in a common-wealth considered as such . an outward coactive power was alwayes disowned by christ , but certainly not an internall power over conscience to oblige all his disciples to what duties hee thought fit . secondly i argue from those officers , whose rights to govern this society are founded on that charter , whereby the society its self subsists . now i would willingly know why , when our saviour disowned all outward power in the world , yet he should constitute a society and appoint officers in it , did hee not intend a peculiar distinct society from the other societies of the world . and therefore the argument frequently used against church-power , because it hath no outward force with it by the constitution of christ , is a strong argument to mee of the peculiarity of a christian society from a common-wealth , because christ so instituted it , as not to have it ruled at first by any outward force or power . when christ saith his kingdome was not of this world ; hee implies , that hee had a society that was governed by his laws in the world , yet distinct from all mundane societies : had not our saviour intended his church to have been a peculiar society , distinct from a common-wealth , why our saviour should interdict the apostles the use of a civil coactive power : or why instead of sending abroad apostles to preach the gospel , hee did not imploy the governours of common-wealths to have inforced christianity by laws and temporal edicts , and the several magistrates to have impowred several persons under them to preach the gospel in their several territories ? and can any thing bee more plain , by our saviours taking a contrary course , then that hee intended a church society to bee distinct from civil , and the power belonging to it , ( as well as the officers ) to bee of a different nature from that which is settled in a common-wealth . i here suppose , that christ hath by a positive law established the government of his church upon officers of his own appointment ; which i have largely proved elsewhere , and therefore suppose it now . thirdly , i argue from the peculiar rights belonging to these societies . for if every one born in the common-wealth , have not thereby a right to the priviledges of the church ; nor every one by being of the church , any right to the benefits of the common-wealth ; it must necessarily follow , that these are distinct from one another . if any one by being of the common-wealth , hath right to church priviledges , then every one born in a common-wealth may challenge a right to the lords supper without baptism or open professing christianity , which i cannot think any will bee very ready to grant . now there being by divine appointment the several rights of baptisme and the lords supper , as peculiar badges of the church as a visible society , it is evident , christ did intend it a society distinct from the common-wealth . fourthly , i argue from the different ends of these societies , a common-wealth is constituted for civil ends , and the church for spiritual : for ends are to be judged by the primary constitution , but now it is plain , the end of civil society is for preservation of mens rights as men ( therefore magistracy is called by st. peter 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ) but this christian society doth not respect men under the connotation of men but as christians . the answer given to this is very short , and insufficient when it is said , that every man in a common-wealth , is to act upon spiritual accounts and ends : for there is a great deal of difference between christianities having an influence upon mens actings in a common-wealth , and making a society the same with a common-wealth . to argue therefore from one to another , is a shortness of discourse i cannot but wonder at : unless it could bee proved , that christianity aimed at nothing else but regulating men in the affairs of a common-wealth , which is a taske i suppose will not bee undertaken . lastly , i argue from the peculiar offences against this society , which are , or may bee distinct from those against a common-wealth , i deny not , but most times they are the same ; but frequently they differ , and when they are the same , yet the consideration of them is different in the church and common-wealth , for which i shall suppose the six arguments produced in the last chapter of the first part to stand good , which will strongly hold to excommunication in the christian church , though there produced only for the jewish . i would fain know what is to bee done in many offences , known to bee against the laws of christ , and which tend to the dishonour of the christian society , which the civil and municipal laws , either do not , or may not take cognizance of ? thus much may serve , as i think to make evident , that the church in it's own nature is a peculiar society distinct from a common-wealth , which was the first proposition to bee proved . the second is , that the power of the church over it's members in case of offences , doth not arise meerly from confederation and consent , though it doth suppose it . this church power may bee considered two waies . either , first , as it implies the right in some of inflicting censures . or secondly , as it implies in others , the duty of submitting to censures inflicted ; now as to both these , i shall prove that their original is higher than meer confederation . 1. as to the right of inflicting censures , on these accounts . first , what ever society doth subsist by vertue of a divine constitution , doth by vertue thereof derive all power for it's preservation , in peace , unity , and purity ; but it is plain , that a power of censuring offenders , is necessary for the churches preservation in peace and purity ; and it is already proved , that the church hath it's charter from christ , and therefore from him it hath a power to inflict punishments on offenders , suitable to the nature of the society they are of . i am very prone to think that the ground of all the mistakes on this subject have risen from hence , that some , imprudently enough , have fixt the original of this power on some ambiguous places of scripture , which may , and it may bee , ought to bee taken in a different sense ; and their adversaries , finding those places weak and insufficient proofes of such a power , have from thence rejected any such kinde of power at all ; but certainly if wee should reject every truth that is weakly proved by some who have undertaken it , i know no opinion would bid so fair for acceptance as scepticisme , and that in reference to many weighty & important truths ; for how weakly have some proved the existence of a deity , the immortality of the soul , and the truth of the scriptures , by such arguments , that if it were enough to overthrow an opinion to bee able to answer some arguments brought for it , atheism it's self would become plausible . it can bee then no evidence , that a thing is not true , because some arguments will not prove it ; and truly , as to the matter in hand , i am fully of the opinion of the excellent h. grotius , speaking of excommunication in the christian church : neque ad eam rem peculiare praeceptum desideratur , cum ecclesiae caetu , a christo semel constituto , omnia illa imperata censeri debent , sine quibus ejus caetûs puritas retineri non potest . and therefore men spend needless pains to prove an institution of this power by some positive precept , when christs founding his church , as a particular society , is sufficient proof hee hath endowed it with this fundamental right , without which the society , were arena sine calce , a company of persons without any common tye of union among them ; for if there bee any such union , it must depend on some conditions , to bee performed by the members of that society , which how could they require from them , if they have not power to exclude them upon non-performance ? 2. i prove the divine original of this power from the special appointment and designation of particular officers by jesus christ , for the ruling this society . now i say , that law which provides there shall bee officers to govern , doth give them power to govern , suitable to the nature of their society : either then you must deny , that christ hath by an unalterable institution appointed a gospel ministry , or that this ministry hath no power in the church , or that their power extends not to excommunication . the first i have already proved , the second follows from their appointment , for by all the titles given to church officers in scripture ; it appears they had a power over the church , ( as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . ) all which as you well know , do import a right to govern the society over which they are set . and that this power should not extend to a power to exclude , convict offenders , seems very strange , when no other punishment can bee more suitable to the nature of the society than this is ; which is a debarring him from the priviledges of that society , which the offender hath so much dishonoured . can there bee any punishment less imagined towards contumacious offenders then this is , or that carries in it less of outward and coactive force , it implying nothing but what the offender himself freely yeilded to at his entrance into this society ? all that i can find replyed by any of the adversaryes of the opinion i here assert , to the argument drawn from the institution and titles of the officers of the church , is , that all those titles which are given to the ministers of the gospel in the new testament , that do import rule and government , are all to bee taken in a spirituall sense , as they are christs ministers and ambassadors to preach his word and declare his will to his church . so that all power such persons conceive to lye in those titles , is onely doctrinal and declarative ; but how true that is , let any one judge , that considers these things . 1. that there was certainly a power of discipline then in the churches constituted by the apostles , which is most evident not only from the passages relating to offendors in saint pauls epistles , especially to the corinthians and thessalonians , but from the continued practice of succeeding ages , manifested by tertullian , cyprian , and many others . there being then a power of discipline in apostolical churches , there was a necessity it should be administred by some persons who had the care of those churches ; and who were they but the several pastors of them ? it being then evident that there was such a power , doth it not stand to common sense it should be implyed in such titles which in their natural importance do signifie a right to govern , as the names of pastors and rulers do ? 2. there is a diversity in scripture made between pastors and teachers , ephes. 4.11 . though this may not ( as it doth not ) imply a necessity of two distinct offices in the church , yet it doth a different respect and connotation in the same person ▪ and so imports that ruling carries in it somewhat more then meer teaching , and so the power implyed in pastors to be more then meerly doctrinal , which is all i contend for , viz. a right to govern the flock committed to their charge . 3. what possible difference can be assigned between the elders that rule well , and those which labour in word and doctrine , ( 1 tim. 5.17 . ) if all their ruling were meerly labouring in the word and doctrine ? and all their governing nothing but teaching ? i intend not to prove an office of rulers distinct from teachers from hence ( which i know neither this place , nor any other will do ) but that the formal conception of ruling , is different from that of teaching . 4. i argue from the analogy between the primitive churches and the synagogues , that as many of the names were taken from thence where they carried a power of discipline with them , so they must do in some proportion in the church ; or it were not easie understanding them . it is most certain the presbyters of the synagogue had a power of ruling ; and can you conceive the bishops and presbyters of the church had none , when the societies were much of the same constitution , and the government of the one was transcribed from the other , as hath been already largely proved ? 5. the acts attributed to pastors in scripture , imply a power of governing , distinct from meer teaching ; such are 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , used for a right to govern , matth. 2.6 . revel . 12.5 . — 19.15 . which word is attributed to pastors of churches in reference to their flocks . acts 20.28 . 1 pet. 5.2 . and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , is applyed to ministers , when they are so frequently called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which notes praesidentiam eum potestate ; for hesychius renders is by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; and the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 at athens had certainly a power of government in them . 6. the very word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , is attributed to those who have over-sight of churches , 1 cor. 12.8 . by which it is certainly evident , that a power more then doctrinal is understood , as that it could not then be understood of a power meerly civil . and this i suppose may suffice to vindicate this argument from the titles of church-officers in the new testament , that they are not insignificant things , but the persons who enjoyed them had a right to govern the society over which the holy-ghost hath made them over-seers . 3. i argue that church power ariseth not meerly from consent , because the church may exercise her power on such who have not actually confederated with her ; which is in admitting members into the church : for if the church-officers have power to judge whether persons are fit to be admitted , they have power to exclude from admission such whom they judge unfit , and so their power is exercised on those who are not confederated . to this it may be answered , that the consent to be judged , gives the church power over the person suing for admission . i grant it doth , as to that particular person , but the right in general of judging concerning admission , doth argue an antecedent power to an actual confederation . for i will suppose that christ should now appoint some officers to found a church , and gather a society of christians together , where there hath been none before : i now ask , whether these officers have power to admit any into the church or no ? this i suppose cannot be denyed , for to what end else were they appointed ? if it be granted they have power to admit persons , and thereby make a church , then they had power antecedently to any confederation ; for the confederation was subsequent to their admission ; and therefore they who had power to admit , could not derive their power from confederation . this argument , to me , puts the case out of dispute , that all church-power cannot arise from meer confederation . and that which further evidenceth that the power of the church doth not arise from meer consent , is that deed of gift whereby our blessed saviour did confer the power of the keyes on the apostle peter , as the representative in that action of the whole colledge of the apostles and governours of the church , of which power all the apostles were actually infeoffed , john 20.23 . by which power of the keyes is certainly meant some administration in the church , which doth respect it as a visible society , in which sense the church is so frequently called , as in that place , the kingdom of heaven ; and in all probability the administration intended here by the power of the keyes , is that we are now discoursing of , viz. the power of admission into the church of christ in order to the pardon of the sins of all penitent believers , and the shutting out of such who were manifestly unworthy of so holy a communion . so that the power of the keyes doth not primarily respect exclusion out of the church , and receiving into it again upon absolution , but it chiefly respects the power of admission into the church , though by way of connotation and analogy of reason it will carry the other along with it . for if the apostles as governours of the church were invested with a power of judging of mens fitness for admission into the church as members of it , it stands to the highest reason that they should have thereby likewise a power conveyed to them , of excluding such as are unworthy after their admission , to maintain communion with the church . so that this interpretation of the power of the keyes , is far from invalidating the power of the church , as to its censuring offendors ; all that it pretends to , is only giving a more natural and genuine sense of the power of the keyes , which will appear so to be , if we consider these things . 1. that this power was given to saint peter before any christian church was actually formed , which ( as i have elsewhere made manifest ) was not done till after christs resurrection ; when christ had given the apostles their commission to go preach and baptize , &c. matth. 28.19 . is it not therefore far more rational that the power of the keyes here given , should respect the founding of a church and admission into it , then ejection out of it ( before it was in being ) and receiving into it again ? and this we find likewise remarkably fulfilled in the person of the apostle peter , who opened the door of admission into the christian church , both to jews and gentiles . so the jews by his sermon at pentecost , when about 3000. souls were brought into the church of christ. so the gentiles , as is most evident in the story of cornelius , acts 10.28 . who was the first fruits of the gentiles . so that if we should yield so far to the great inhancers of saint peters power , that something was intended peculiar to his person in the keyes given him by our saviour , we hereby see how rationally it may be understood without the least advantage to the extravagant pretensions of saint peters pretended successors . 2. the pardon of sin in scripture is most annexed to baptism and admission into the church , and thence it seems evident that the loosing of sin should be by admitting into the church by baptism , in the same sense by which baptism is said to save us , and it is called the washing of regeneration , respecting the spiritual advantages which come by admission into the church of christ ; and so they are said to have their sins bound upon them , who continue refractory in their sins , as simon magus is said to be in the bonds of iniquity . 3. the metaphor of the keyes referrs most to admission into the house , and excluding out of it , rather then ejecting any out of it , and re-admitting them . thus when eliakim is said to have the keyes of the house of david , it was in regard of his power to open and shut upon whom he pleased . and thus cyprian , as our learned mr. thorndike observes , understands the power of binding and loosing in this sense , in his epistle to john , where speaking of the remission of sins in baptism , he brings these very words of our saviour to peter as the evidence of it ; that what he should loose on earth should be loosed in heaven ; and concludes with this sentence . vnde intelligimus non nisi in ecclesiâ praepositis & in evangelicâ lege ac dominicâ ordinati●ne fundatis licere baptizare , & remissam peccatorum dare ; foris autem nec ligari aliquid posse nec solvi , ubi non sit qui ligare possit aut solvere . that which i now inferr from this discourse is , that the power of the church doth not arise from meer consent and confederation , both because this power doth respect those who have not actually consented to it , and because it is settled upon the governours of the church by divine institution . thus it appears that the right of inflicting censures doth not result meerly ex confederatâ disciplinâ , which was the thing to be proved . the like evidence may be given , for the duty of submitting to penalties or church-censures in the members of the church : which that it ariseth not from meer consent of parties , will appear on these accounts . 1. every person who enters this society , is bound to consent , before he doth it , because of the obligation lying upon conscience to an open profession of christianity , presently upon conviction of the understanding of the truth and certainty of christian religion . for when once the mind of any rational man is so far wrought upon by the influence of the divine spirit , as to discover the most rational and undoubted evidences which there are of the truth of christianity , he is presently obliged to profess christ openly , to worship him solemnly , to assemble with others for instruction and participation of gospel-ordinances ; and thence it follows that there is an antecedent obligation upon conscience to associate with others , and consequently to consent to be governed by the rulers of the society which he enters into . so that this submission to the power of church-officers in the exercise of discipline upon offendors , is implyed in the very conditions of christianity , and the solemn professing and undertaking of it . 2. it were impossible any society should be upheld , if it be not laid by the founder of the society as the necessary duty of all members to undergo the penalties which shall be inflicted by those who have the care of governing that society , so they be not contrary to the laws , nature , and constitution of it . else there would be no provision made for preventing divisions and confusions which will happen upon any breach made upon the laws of the society . now this obligation to submission to censures , doth speak something antecedently to the confederation , although the expression of it lies in the confederation its self . by this i hope we have made it evident that it is nothing else but a mistake in those otherwise learned persons , who make the power of censures in the christian-church to be nothing else but a lex cenfederatae disciplinae , whereas this power hath been made appear to be derived from a higher original then the meer arbitrary consent of the several members of the church associating together : and how far the examples of the synagogues under the law , are from reaching that of christian churches in reference to this , because in these the power is conveyed by the founder of the society , and not left to any arbitrary constitutions , as it was among the jews in their synagogues . it cannot be denyed but consent is supposed , and confederation necessary , in order to church power , but that is rather in regard of the exercise , then the original of it ; for although i affirm the original of this power to be of divine institution , yet in order to the exercise of it in reference to particular persons ( who are not mentioned in the charter of the power its self ) it is necessary that the persons on whom it is exerted , should declare their consent and submission either by words or actions , to the rules and orders of this society . having now proved that the power of the church doth not arise from meer consent of parties , the next grand inquiry is concerning the extent of this power , whether it doth reach so far as to excommunication ? for some men who will not seem wholly to deny all power in the church over offendors , nor that the church doth subsist by divine institution , yet do wholly deny any such power as that of excommunication , and seem rather to say that church officers may far more congruously to their office inflict any other mulct upon offendors , then exclude them from participation of communion with others in the ordinances and sacraments of the gospel : in order therefore to the clearing of this , i come to the third proposition . that the power which christ hath given to the officers of his church , doth extend to the exclusion of contumacious offendors from the priviledges which this society enjoyes . in these terms i rather choose to fix it , then in those crude expressions , wherein erastus and some of his followers would state the question , and some of their imprudent adversaries have accepted it , viz. whether church-officers have power to exclude any from the eucharist , ob moralem impuritatem ? and the reasons why i wave those terms , are , 1. i must confess my self yet unsatisfied as to any convincing argument , whereby it can be proved that any were denyed admission to the lords supper , who were admitted to all other parts of church-society , and owned as members in them . i cannot yet see any particular reason drawn from the nature of the lords supper above all other parts of divine worship , which should confine the censures of the church meerly to that ordinance ; and so to make the eucharist bear the same office in the body of the church , which our new anatomists tell us the parenchyme of the liver doth in the natural body , viz. to be colum sanguinis , to serve as a kind of strainer to separate the more gross and faeculent parts of the blood from the more pure and spirituous ; so the lords supper to strain out the more impure members of the church from the more holy and spiritual . my judgement then is , that excommunication relates immediately to the cutting a person off from communion with the churches visible society , constituted upon the ends it is ; but because communion is not visibly discerned but in administration and participation of gospel ordinances , therefore exclusion doth chiefly refer to these , and because the lords supper is one of the highest priviledges which the church enjoyes , therefore it stands to reason that censures should begin there . and in that sense suspension from the lords supper of persons apparently unworthy , may be embraced as a prudent , lawful and convenient abatement of the greater penalty of excommunication , and so to stand on the same general grounds that the other doth ; for qui potest majus , potest etiam minus , which will hold as well in moral as natural power , if there be no prohibition to the contrary , nor peculiar reason as to the one more then to the other . 2. i dislike the terms ob moralem impuritatem , on this account , because i suppose they were taken up by erastus ▪ and from him by others as the controversie was managed concerning excommunication among the jews , viz. whether it were meerly because of ceremonial , or else likewise because of moral impurity . as to which i must ingenuously acknowledge erastus hath very much the advantage of his adversaries , clearly proving that no persons under the law were excluded the temple-worship because of moral impurity . but then withall i think he hath gained little advantage to his cause by the great and successful pains he hath taken in the proving of that ; my reason is , because the temple-worship or the sacrifices under the law were in some sense propitiatory , as they were the adumbrations of that grand sacrifice which was to be offered up for the appeasing of gods wrath , viz. the blood of christ ; therefore to have excluded any from participation of them , had been to exclude them from the visible way of obtaining pardon of sin ( which was not to be had without shedding of blood , as the apostle tells us ) and from testifying their faith towards god , and repentance from dead works . but now under the gospel those ordinances , which suppose admission into the church by baptism , do thereby suppose an alsufficient sacrifice offered for the expiation of sin , and consequently the subsequent priviledges do not immediately relate to the obtaining of that , but a grateful comemmoration of the death of christ , and a celebration of the infinite mercy and goodness of god in the way of redemption found out by the death of his son. and therefore it stands to great reason that such persons , who by their profane and unworthy lives dishonour so holy a profession , should not be owned to be as good and sound members of the society founded on so sacred a foundation , as the most christian and religious persons . to this , i know nothing can be objected , but that first , the passeover was commemorative among the jews ; and secondly , that the priviledges of that people were then very great above other people , and therefore if god had intended any such thing as excommunication among his people , it would have been in use then . to these i answer . 1. i grant the passeover was commemorative as to the occasion of its institution ; but then it was withall typical and annunciative of that lamb of god who was to take away the sins of the world , and therefore no person who desired expiation of sins , was to be debard from it ; but the lords supper under the gospel hath nothing in it propitiatory , but is intended as a feast upon a sacrifice and a federal rite , as hath been fully cleared by a very learned person in his discourse about the true notion of the lords supper . 2. i grant the jews had very many priviledges above other nations : nay so far , that the whole body of the people were looked upon as gods chosen , and peculiar and holy people ; and from thence i justly infer that whatever exclusion was among the people of the jews from their society , will far better hold as an argument for excommunication under the christian church , then if it had been a meer debarring from their levitical worship . and that i should far sooner insist upon , from the reason assigned , as the ground of excommunication , then the other infirm and profligated argument ; and so the exclusion out of the camp of israel and the cerith among the jews ( whatever we understand by it ) may à pari hold to a ground of exclusion from the christian society : in imitation of which , i rather suppose that exclusion out of the synagogues was after taken up , rather then as a meer out-lawry , when they were deprived of civill power . the question then being thus clearly stated , it amounts to this , whether under the gospel , there be any power in the officers of the church by vertue of divine institution to exclude any offenders out of the christian society , for transgressing the laws of it ? and according to our former propositions , i suppose it will be sufficient to prove that power to be of divine institution , if i prove it to be fundamentally and intrinsecally resident in the society its self . for what ever doth immediately result from the society it self , must have the same original which the subject hath , because this hath the nature of an inseparable property resulting from its constitution . for the clearing of which , i shall lay down my thoughts of it as clearly and methodically as i can ; and that in these following hypotheses . 1. where there is a power of declaring any person to be no true member of the society he is in , there is a formal power of excommunication : for this is all which i intend by it , viz. an authoritative pronouncing virtute officii , any convict offender to have forfeited his interest in the church as a christian society : and to lose all the priviledges of i● : so that if this power be lodged in any church officer , then he hath power formally to excommunicate . 2. where the enjoyment of the priviledges of a society is not absolute and necessary , but depends upon conditions to be performed by every member , of which the society is judge , there is a power in the rulers of that society to debarr any person from such priviledges , upon non-performance of the conditions . as supposing the jus civitatis to depend upon defending the rights of the city ; upon a failing in referente to this in any person admitted to citizen-ship , the rulers of the city have the same power to take that right away , which they had at first to give it ; because that right was never absolutely given , but upon supposition that the person did not overthrow the ends for which it was bestowed upon him . 3. the church is such a society in which communion is not absolute and necessary , but it doth depend on the performance of some conditions , of which the governours of it are the competent judges : and that appears , 1. because the admission into the church , depends upon conditions to be judged by pastors , as in case of adult persons requiring baptism , and the children of infidels being baptized : in both which cases it is evident that conditions are prerequisite , of which the pastors are judges . 2. because the priviledges of this society do require a separation from other societies in the world , and calls for greater holiness and purity of life ; and those very priviledges are pledges of greater benefits which belong only to persons qualified with suitable conditions ; it would therefore be a very great dishonour to this society , if it lay as common and open as other societies in the world do , and no more qualifications required from the members of it . 3. we have instances in the sacred records of apostolical times , of such scandals which have been the ground of the exclusion of the persons guilty of them from the priviledges of the christian society . and here i suppose we may ( notwithstanding all the little evasions which have been found out ) fix on the incestuous person in the church of corinth . as to which i lay not the force of the argument upon the manner of execution of the censure then , viz. by delegation from an apostle , or the apostolical rod , or delivering to satan ; for i freely grant that these did then import an extraordinary power in the apostles over offenders ; but i say the ground and reason of the exercise of that power in such an extraordinary manner at that time , doth still continue , although not in that visible extraordinary effect which it then had . and whatever practice is founded upon grounds perpetual and common , that practice must continue as long as the grounds of it do , and the churches capacity will admit ; ( which hypothesis is the only rational foundation on which episcopal government in the church doth stand firm and unshaken , and which in the former discourse i am far from undermining of , as any intelligent reader may perceive ) now i say that it is evident that the reasons of the apostles censure of that person , are not fetched from the want of christian magistrates , but from such things which will hold as long as any christian church : which are the dishonour of the society . 1 corinth . 5 , 1. the spreading of such corruptions further , if they pass uncensured . 1 corinth . 5.6 . and amendment of the person , 1 cor. 5.5 . upon these pillars the power of censures rests it self in the church of god , which are the main grounds of penalties in all societies whatsoever , viz. the preservation of the honour of them , and preventing of further mischief , and doing good to the offending party . and that which seems to add a great deal of weight to this instance , is , that the apostle checks the corinthians that before the exercise of the apostolical rod , they were not of themselves sensible of so great a dishonour to the church as that was , and had not used some means for the removing such a person from their society . and ye are puffed up , and have not rather mourned that he that hath done this deed may be taken away from among you , 1 corinth . 5.2 . therein implying , that whether there had been such a thing in the church , or no , as the apostolical rod , it had been the duty of a christian society to have done their endeavour in order to the removing such a person from their number . but further , i cannot understand , how it should be a duty in christians to withdraw from every brother who walketh disorderly , and church-officers not to have power to pronounce such a person to be withdrawn from , which amounts to excommunication . it is not to me at all material , whether they did immediately relate to civil or sacred converse , ( concerning which there is so much dispute ) for in which soever we place it , if church-officers have a power to pronounce such a person to be withdrawn from , they have a power of excommunication ; so we consider this penalty as inflicted on the person in his relation to the society as a christian ; and withall , how nearly conjoyned their civil and spiritual eating were together , 1 corinth , 11.20 , 21. and how strongly the argument will hold from civil to sacred , viz. à remotione unius ad remotionem alterius , not from any fancyed pollution in sacris from the company of wicked men , but from the dishonour reflecting on the society from such unworthy persons partaking of the highest priviledges of it . thus from these three hypotheses this corollary follows , that where any persons in a church do by their open and contumacious offences , declare to the world that they are far from being the persons they were supposed to be in their admission into the church , there is a power resident in the pastors of the church to debar such persons from the priviledges of it , and consequently from communion in the lords supper . 1. because this expresseth the nearest union and closest confederation , as the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 among the grecian common-wealths did . 2. because this hath been alwayes looked on with greatest veneration in the church of god ; and therefore it is least of all fit those persons should be admitted to the highest priviledges of the church , which are unworthy of the lowest of them . there remain only some few objections which are levelled against this opinion concerning the power of excommunication , which from the question being thus stated and proved , will be soon removed . the first is that this excommunication is an outward punishment , and therefore belongs not to church-officers , but to the magistrate . 2. because it neither is nor ever was in the power of any church-officer to debar any offending member from publick worship , because any heathens may come to it . 3. it cannot lie as to exclusion from the lords supper , because christ is offered as spiritual food , as well in the word preached as in the sacrament . to these i answer . 1. i do not well understand what the objectors mean by an outward punishment ; for there can be no punishment belonging to a visible society , ( such as the church is here considered to be ) but it must be visible , i. e. outward , or a thing to be taken notice of in the world ; and in this sense i deny that all visible punishment belongs only to the magistrate ; but if by outward , be meant forcible punishment , then i grant that all coactive power belongs to the magistrate ; but i deny that excommunication formally considered , is a forcible punishment . 1. because every person at his entrance into this society , is supposed to declare his submission to the rules of the society ; and therefore whatever he after undergoes by way of penalty in this society , doth depend upon that consent . 2. a person stands excommunicate legally and de jure , who is declared authoritativly to be no member of the society , though he may be present at the acts of it ; as a defranchised person may be at those of a corporation . 3. a person falling into those offences which merit excommunication , is supposed in so doing , voluntarily to renounce his interest in those prviledges , the enjoyment of which doth depend upon abstaining from those offences which he wilfully falls into ; especially if contumacy be joyned with them , as it is before excommunication ; for then nothing is done forcibly towards him ; for he first relinquisheth his right , before the church-governour declares him excluded the society . so that the offendor doth meritoriously excommunicate himself , the pastor doth it formally , by declaring that he hath made himself no member by his offences and contumacy joyned with them . to the second i answer , that i do not place the formality of excommunication in exclusion from hearing the word , but in debarring the person from hearing tanquam pars eoclesiae , as a member of the church , and so his hearing may be well joined with that of heathens and infidels , and not of members of the church . to the third i answer , that exclusion from the lords supper is not on the accounts mentioned in the objection , but because it is one of the chiefest priviledges of the church , as it is a visible society . having thus cleared and asserted the power of excommunication in a christian church , there remains only one enquiry more , which is , whether this power doth remain formally in the church , after its being incorporated into the common-wealth , or else doth it then escheate wholly into the civil power ? the resolution of which question mainly depends on another spoken to already ; viz. whether this power was only a kind of widows estate , which belonged to it only during its separation from the civil power , or was the church absolutely infeoffed of it as its perpetual right , belonging to it in all conditions whatsoever it should be in ? now that must appear by the tenure of it , and the grounds on which it was conveyed , which having been proved already to be perpetual and universal , it from thence appears that no accession to the church can invalidate its former title . but then as in case of marriage , the right of disposal and well management of the estate coming by the wife , belongs to the husband ; so after the church is married into the common wealth , the right of supream management of this power in an external way doth fall into the magistrates hands . which may consist in these following things . 1. a right of prescribing laws for the due management of church-censures . 2 a right of bounding the manner of proceeding in censures , that in a settled christian state , matters of so great weight be not left to the arbitrary pleasure of any church-officers , nor such censures inflicted but upon an evident conviction of such great offences which tend to the dishonour of the christian church , and that in order to the amendment of the offendors life . 3. the right of adding temporal and civil sanctions to church-censures and so enforcing the spiritual weapons of the church , with the more keen and sharp ones of the civil state . thus i assert the force and efficacy of all church-censures in foro humano to flow from the civil power , and that there is no proper effect following any of them as to civil rights , but from the magistrates sanction . 4. to the magistrate belongs the right of appeals in case of unjust censures ; not that the magistrate can repeal a just censure in the church , as to its spiritual effects ; but he may suspend the temporal effect of it : in which case it is the duty of pastors to discharge their office and acquiesce . but this power of the magistrate in the supream ordering of ecclesiastical as well as civil causes , i have fully asserted and cleared already . from which it follows , that as to any outward effects of the power of excommunication , the person of the supream magistrate must be exempted , both because the force of these censures doth flow from him in a christian state , and that there otherwise would be a progress in infinitum , to know whether the censure of the magistrate were just or no. i conclude then , that though the magistrate hath the main care of ordering things in the church , yet ( the magistrates power in the church being cumulative , and not privative ) the church and her officers retain the fundamental right of inflicting censures on offenders : which was the thing to be proved . dedit deus his quoque finem . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a61546-e100 §. 1. §. 2. §. 3. §. 4. §. 5. §. 6. §. 7. §. 8. §. 9. §. 10. §. 11. §. 12. apud . agust . de civit. de l. 2. c. 21. §. 13. §. 14. §. 15. §. 16. iren. p. 2. c. 3. iren. p. 1. c. 8. §. 4. §. 17. in luk. 6.22 §. 18. §. 19. matth. 16.19 . iren. p. 2. ch 5. §. 5. p. 212. acts 2.41 . 1 pet. 3.21 . tit. 3.5 . acts 8.33 . isa. 22.20 . cypr. ep. 73. sect . 6. §. 20. §. 21. heb. 9.22 . §. 22. 1 cor. 5.11 . 2 thess. 3.14 . §. 23. iren. p. 1. c. 2. sect . 7. a late dialogue betwixt a civilian and a divine concerning the present condition of the church of england in which, among other particulars, these following are especially spoken of ... gillespie, george, 1613-1648. this text is an enriched version of the tcp digital transcription a42764 of text r15751 in the english short title catalog (wing g753). textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. the text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with morphadorner. the annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. this text has not been fully proofread approx. 83 kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from 23 1-bit group-iv tiff page images. earlyprint project evanston,il, notre dame, in, st. louis, mo 2017 a42764 wing g753 estc r15751 11926352 ocm 11926352 51035 this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons 0 1.0 universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase 1, no. a42764) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set 51035) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, 1641-1700 ; 230:e14, no 17) a late dialogue betwixt a civilian and a divine concerning the present condition of the church of england in which, among other particulars, these following are especially spoken of ... gillespie, george, 1613-1648. [2], 42 p. printed for robert bostock ..., london : 1644. particulars spoken of: "1 the sinne and danger of delaying reformation. 2 that there is a certain form of church-government jure divino. 3 that there was an ecclesiasticall excommunication among the jewes. 4 that excommunication is an ordinance in the new testament. 5 concerning the toleration of all sects and heresies. 6 some answer to a late book come from oxford." the "late book come from oxford" is john maxwell's an answer by letter to a worthy gentleman. attributed to george gillespie. cf. nuc pre-1956. reproduction of original in thomason collection, british library. eng maxwell, john, 1590?-1647. -an answer by letter to a worthy gentleman. reformation -england -history -17th century. excommunication. a42764 r15751 (wing g753). civilwar no a late dialogue betwixt a civilian and a divine, concerning the present condition of the church of england. in which, among other particular gillespie, george 1644 15245 255 15 0 0 0 0 177 f the rate of 177 defects per 10,000 words puts this text in the f category of texts with 100 or more defects per 10,000 words. 2003-05 tcp assigned for keying and markup 2003-06 spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images 2005-01 ben griffin sampled and proofread 2005-01 ben griffin text and markup reviewed and edited 2005-04 pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a late dialogue betwixt a civilian and a divine , concerning the present condition of the church of england . in which , among other particulars , these following are especially spoken of . 1 the sinne and danger of delaying reformation . 2 that there is a certain form of church-government jure divino . 3 that there was an ecclesiasticall excommunication among the jews . 4 that excommunication is an ordinance in the new testament . 5 concerning the toleration of all sects and heresies . 6 some answer to a late book come from oxford . 1 thes. 5.21 . prove all things : hold fast that which is good . published by authority . london : printed for robert bostock , dwelling in pauls church-yard at the signe of the kings head . 1644. a late dialogve betwixt a civilian , and a divine , concerning the present condition of the church of england , &c. divine . good morrow to you good sir . civilian . i am glad to see you sir , will you take a walk with me this morning , and tell me what good newes yee have heard , for i have not yet been in westminster hall , the place most infected with the athenian disease . divine . i can tell you no newes at this time . civilian . you look as you were not well pleased to day , pray you tell me , have you heard any bad newes from the north or from the west . divine . none truly , but this i confesse , that though i cannot but allow those who from their affection to the cause , are inquisitive of newes from severall quarters , and labour to make some good use of what they heare ; yet for mine own part , one thing sticks with me , which suffereth me not either to be so curious in seeking , or so joviall in hearing newes , as many others are . the truth is , i am more afraid and apprehensive of our owne , then of our enemies victories . civilian . this is a most strange paradox , what can you mean by it ? i hope you are not turned malignant . divine . if it be paradoxall , yet i am sure it is orthodoxall , i remember judicious calvin said the same of the german warres in his time . there is more danger , said he , like to come by our owne then by our enemies victory . i desire his words may bee well observed , and applyed . i dare say , god is more gracious to us in continuing this war of ours , then if he should answer our desires in putting an end to it presently . when god blesseth our forces with any great successe , nay when hee doth but draw back his afflicting hand a little , and giveth us some lightning of our eyes , o how doe we by and by forget god , and slight both hu●iliation and reformation . * then iesurum forsook god which made him , and lightly esteemed the rock of his ●alvation . * but , when he slew them , then they sought him , and returned and inquired after god early . there were never serious and deep thoughts , either in the parliament , or in the kingdome , of fasting and praying , of covenanting with god , of purging our hearts , our lives , our families , of reforming the church , according to the word , of building the temple according to the patterne , of caring for the things of jesus christ more then for their own things ; never but when we felt gods hand smart and heavy upon us . and if now the sword of the lord should be still , and england a quiet habitation , every man sitting under his own vine , and under his owne figtree : i verily believe our great state-physitians should heale the wound of the daughter of sion slightly , and daube the wall with untempered morter , and the church of god in this kingdome should have dry breasts , and a miscarrying wombe , instead of bringing forth the manchild of reformation , now sticking in the birth , but having no strength to come forth , till some new pains and pangs quicken and carry through the work . civilian . i must confesse the reformation of our selves and our families hath been , and is still , too much neglected . but for nationall and church-reformation , i doe not know what can be more done then is done , considering our intestine divisions among our selves , which as mr. fox observeth was the undoing of the church and of religion in king edwards dayes , and is like to prove the bane of religion and reformation in our dayes . ita dum singuli pugnant universi vincuntur : as tacitus speaketh of the ancient brittish . divine . sir , i desire that first of all this may be laid downe as a sure principle , that the purity and liberty of the gospel , and of the ordinances of jesus christ , is to bee more esteemed of , and sought after then all or any thing in this world . that it is said as well to states and parliaments , as to particular persons : seek yee first the kingdome of god and the righteousnesse thereof , and all these things shall be added unto you . the setling of religion is to be looked upon , as causall , not as consequent to the peace and prosperity of the kingdom . doe but prove the lord now herewith , and see if he will not appoint salvation for walls and b●●●marks , if he will not honour those that honour him , if he will not be zealous for those that are zealous for him . the trojans believed that troy could not be taken except their idoll palladium were taken away from them which being once taken away by vlysses and diomedes , they observed that shortly thereafter their town was destroyed . arno●ius tells us that when the i●age of iupiter was throwne down in the capitoll , and was lying upon the ground , the heathenish so●th-savers did foretell sad and heavy things which should never be removed till iupiter were set in his owne place ; whic● i● it were no done , that they did in vain hope for the preservation of the lawes , or the healing of their homebred divisions . shall those pagans rise up in judgement against us christians , who doe so overly and slightly goe about the building of the house of god , and the erecting of the throne of jesus christ ; who care for something else more then for his church and kingdome , his glory and his ordinances , who seek our owne things , not the things which are jesus christs . civilian . no man can say against this , that true religion is the alpha and omega of a kingdomes happinesse , and that it is their surest foundation and strongest bullwark of peace , liberties , and lawes . and i trust the parliament will ever be most tender and carefull of it , and put it in its own place as they have frequently professed in their declarations , and really manifested in calling and keeping together an assembly of learned and pious div●nes , the results of whose debates and consultations t●ey will take to their consideration in due time , for setling the government of the church , and the worship of god . divine . if you would really and carefully indeavour , to doe what you professe to intend , i have no more to say , but that the successe is to be committed to god , you having done your duty . but assuredly the practises doe not answer to the professions , nor the performances to the promises . civilian . for that i must tell you a story which i remember that i have read , in diodorus siculus of pharnabazus who after many slow preparations , did at last lead forth artaxerxes his army against the egyptians . this man being asked by iphi●rates , why he was so nimble and ready in discourse , and so slow in action , why he did promise so much , and performe so little : answered , because hee was master of his words but king of his actions : meaning that actions were not so much in his power as words . divine . all things are possible to him that believeth . doe not say with the sluggard , there is a lyon in the way . if you would but doe your duty in going about the thing , trust god with the event . now assuredly it is your duty to carry on the cause of religion in the first and principall place , which that i may the more presse upon you , i will adde unto that which hath been said , the notable example of solomon , 1. king. 6.37 , 38. & 7.1 . in the fourth year was the foundation of the house of the lord laid , in the moneth zif , and in the eleventh year in the moneth bull ( which is the eight month ) was the house finished throughout all the parts thereof , and according to all the fashion of it . so was ●e seaven yeares in building it . but solomon was building his own house thirteen yeares . neither did he begin to build his own house , till those seven yeares were ended , and the house of the lord fully perfected , as appeareth clearly by 2. chron. 8.1 . and it came to passe at the end of twenty yeares , wherein solomon had built the house of the lord , and his owne house . after all which ( as followeth in that place ) hee took care for store-cities , and fenced cities , for tribute , and for his navy . tostatus and other interpreters observe , that solomon looked first to the lords matters , and afterwards to his owne matters . and iosephus his observation is very much to be taken notice of . the building of the temple ( saith he ) which did continue for seven yeares being finished , he went about the building of the palace , which in the thirteenth yeare , he did scarcely finish , for hee did not take so much care of this work , as of the building of the temple , which though both large and more glorious then can be beleeved , was through gods assistance perfected in the foresaid space : but the palace though very farre inferiour to the magnificence of the temple , yet the materialls thereof not being so long before prepared , and the house being to be builded for the king , not for god , it was the more slowly brought to perfection . civilian . but i beseech you where is the fault with us ? and what could be more done then is done ? divine . o but my heart bleeds to think how it goeth for the present , and how it is like to goe for the future with this distracted unsetled church , what fruits have wee yet reaped of our many petitions and indeavours for reformation of religion , of our solemn covenant , of the learned debates and long consultations of the assembly of divines , meethinks that which was said of ephraim , hos. 13.13 . agreeth too too much to england . the sorrows of a travelling woman shall come upon him , he is an ●nwise son , for he should not stay long in the place of the breaking forth of children . i wish we may beware of that which some stories have observed to have been a most unhappy errour in the emperour frederick 3. who did so far connive at all things , that when he was put in mind to look to this or that , to prevent this or that danger , hee was wont to answer as faelix did , the time of amending those things was not yet come , hee would wait for a more convenient season ; which season hee could never see ? i am perswaded it lyeth heavy upon the spirits of thousands beside my selfe , to know that every man doth now in religion what seems good in his own eyes , errors and schismes doe multiply , in most places of the kingdome ; there is a darknesse instead of divination , and people are like sheep that have no shepheard : and for ought i can see , betwixt our forsaking of the old , and finding of a new way , wee are fallen in a wildernesse where there is no way , o when shall i once see religion setled ? civilian . when the warre shall be husht , the state ordered and composed , the peace of the kingdome socured ; it is not to bee expected till then that the parliament can have much leisure to look to church matters : yet they will no doubt , doe the best that may be for the interim . marvell not if i say more , that the parliament doth wisely in moving so slowly . the slow and wary motions of fabius did overcome ha●●db●● , whereas the heat and suddennesse of minutius did indanger the common-wealth . suddain courses ( i doubt ) shall not so much glad us in the beginning , as grieve us in the end . divine . i have read in some polititians , that though that of augustus . — festina lente , doe well agree to calme and peaceable times : yet alexander his {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} nihil cunctando , is fitter for times of trouble and warre , and so they reconcile the one with the other ▪ kekerm . discurs . de consilio quaest. 7. it is not safe to dispute long , in the time of a present combustion , nor to consult long about the cure , when the patient lyes a dying ; but i desire to argue from the principles of my owne profession : god did of old reprove his people , because they said , the time is not yet come , the time that the lords house should be builded . this they said at that time when iudah and benjamin had powerfull adversaries , when the land was not secured , nor the walls of ierusalem built . they might have pleaded for themselves enough of this kind , but all this could not excuse them at gods hands : he would have them build the temple before the walls of ierusalem . and in this they harkened to the prophets of god , and did so . thereafter god taketh themselves to witnesse , whether he had not blessed them from that very day when they laid the foundation of the temple : nay i dare say it is not only good divinity , but good policy , that the parliament should mind the things of christ , more then their own things : for if ( as i suppose ) you will believe matchiavell , hee teacheth you that the setting up of the ordinances of christ , is the best way to make a kingdome flourish in prosperity and peace . i conclude therefore that procra●tinations in reforming religion may prove very pernitious aswell to the common-wealth , as to the church . and for my part i must confesse , i am afraid that the parliament hath felt , and shall yet feel gods hand against them i● other things , because of their doing the work of the lord so negligently , and at the best by halfes . i wish the honourable house of commons may remember what they were about at that instant , when the sad newes of the dispersion of the army in the west , were brought to them : and if they shall inquire at god , as iob did , show mee wherefore thou contendest with me . i doubt not but they shall heare the voice of his servants , the voice of his rods , and the voice of their owne consciences telling them that he hath somewhat against them : that hee healeth not the breaches of the land , because they heal not the breach of the daughter of sion : that hee makes the successe of the warre to halt , because they halt betwixt two , or rather many opinions . civilian . i doe fully agree with you if all this be understood of the fundamentals of faith and religion , and the power of godlinesse . but if so be , you meane of the government and discipline of the church , then you make mountaines of mole-hills , and put hercules sh●e upon an infants foot , whiles you hold that god is not pleased , and that the kingdome cannot be blessed , unlesse the order and discipline of the church bee established so and so as you would have it . i doe not acknowledge either the episcopall way , or the presbiteriall , or the c●ngregationall , to be iure divino , but that all things of that kind are left in such an indifferency , that they may bee moulded and fashioned diversly according to the different formes and constitutions of common-wealths , and altered as much and as often , as each state shall find most convenient for it selfe . if you can convince me that i am in an error , go to , let me heare your reasons . divine . i shall indeavour by gods assistance to satisfie you . but first of all let me use this humble liberty with you , once to put you in mind of the apostles premonition , let no man deceive himselfe : if any man among you seem to be wise in this world , let him become a foole that hee may bee wise . hee that most denieth his owne naturall judgement in supernaturall verities , and is not conformed to this world , but is transformed by the renewing of his mind ; shall best prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of god . absque te sapere , est desipere . o lord , faith augustine , to be wise without thee , is to be mad . do not therefore measure scripturall truths , by politicall principles , but contrariwise , and let your judgement be unbyassed and unprejudiced , when light is set before you . and whereas it seemeth to you a veniall thing , if not altogether lawfull to take a latitude in all such things as are not substantiall ( though scripturall ) truths , and may ( you conceive ) admit a variation upon state-considerations . remember i beseech you that it is the pleasure of god to take notice of , yea purposely to try our obedience , etiam in minimis : for hee that is faithfull in that which is least , is faithfull also in much , and he that is unjust in the least , is unjust also in much . how was the lord offended with ieroboams setting up of altars at dan and bethel : yea even with the kings of iudah , for not taking away the high places , though ieroboam migh have pleaded that it was extreamly dangerous ( in regard of the warre betwixt him and rehoboam ) that his subjects should goe up to ierusalem to sacrifice unto the lord there . and the kings of iudah might plead , that it was too burthensome for all the people to be tyed to go to ierusalem with their sacrifices : that god would have mercy and not sacrifice ; especially considering that they held the foundation , and sacrificed to the lord only ; and this variation from the law of moses , being in no substantiall thing , but only in the circumstance of place . in like manner ieroboam thought not fit to have the feast of tabernacles upon the fifteenth day of the seventh moneth , but upon the fifteenth day of the eight moneth , when the fruits of the earth were more fully gathered in : he would observe the feast according to the law in all the substantialls , but would not bee tyed to the circumstance of time . but god doth utterly reject his worship , because ieroboam had devised it of his owne heart . if therefore the will of jesus christ can be made to appear from his word , even concerning the form of church-government and discipline , and ceremonies of worship , that thus and thus he would have us to do , will you then quarrell at these things , because stamped with a i● divinum ? will you draw out your neck from this yoke , because it is christs yoke ? will you submit and obey because these things are ordinances of parliament , and you will not submit because they are ordinances of christ . civilian . you say right , if you can make it appeare that jesus christ hath revealed his will and commandements , not only concerning faith and manners , but how he would have his church governed and ordered . now this is it which you have yet to prove . divine . for that , i shall desire you to consider , that jesus christ is the only head and king of his church , that the government of his church is a part of his kingly office : that the government is committed into his hand , and the key of the house of david is laid upon his shoulder ; that the father hath set him as a king upon his holy hill of zion , to raign over the house of iacob for ever , and of his kingdom there shall be no end . as therefore he hath fully and faithfully executed his priestly office in making attonement for our sins by the sacrifice of himselfe , and still making intercession in heaven for us . and his propheticall office in revealing the whole counsell of god , and teaching his people by his word and spirit , what he would have them to do . so he hath no lesse fully & faithfully executed his kingly office and legislative power , in providing by his statutes and ordinances for all the necessities of his church ; and appointing by whom and after what manner he will have his house governed , what spirituall courts and judicatories hee would have erected , how he would have them constituted , by what rules to proceed , how to censure offences . it is an old observation , they are the best lawes , which leave least to the power of the judge to doe as he list . it were a bad administration of the supreame power in any kingdom , if no certaine kinds of subordinate officers , nor no certain kind of government were appointed , but all this left to the liberty of every country or city . now jesus christ is more wi●e , and provident , and faithfull , in the government of his whole church , then ever king or parliament was in the government of an earthly kingdome ; and hath therefore appointed officers , courts , censures , and lawes , for the right ordering thereof ; and hath not left these things to bee determined by th●● or that state at their pleasure . i should wish you and all that are of your mind , to study better the kingly office , and prerogative royall , of jesus christ . civilian . i conceive the kingly office of christ to consist in this , that he preserveth , strengtheneth , and delivereth the church invisible , and all the members of his mysticall body from the malice of the divell , and the wicked world , and also ruleth and commandeth their hearts by his spirit , to walk in the wayes of his obedience . but that the kingly office of christ reacheth so farre , as to the externall government and order of a visible politicall ministeriall church , that i still doubt of . divine . you observe not that my argument did conclude this very thing , at which you stick , that christ hath appointed a certain policy and government , and certain kinds of officers for the church , because hee hath fully and faithfully discharged his kingly office in providing for all the necessities of his church . and that hee raignes and rules in his church , not only mystically , but politically considered ; i suppose you cannot deny , if you observe that otherwise a visible politicall church is a body without a head , and subjects without a king . therefore it is the ordinary expression of our divines against papists , that the government of the church is partly monarchicall in regard of christ our king and law-giver ; partly aristocraticall in regard of the ministers and officers , and partly democraticall in regard of certaine liberties and priviledges belonging to people . civilian . i would understand whether the reformed churches hold the forme of their ecclesiasticall government to be jure divino , for i have heard , that it was introduced among them only in a prudentiall way . divine . i shall give you some cleare instances of their judgement , such as come to my remembrance . in the book of the policy of the church of scotland , i read thus . this power and policy of the church should lea●e upon the word immediately , as the onely ground thereof , and should bee taken from the pure fountaines of the scriptures , the church hearing the voice of christ , the only spirituall king , and being ruled by his lawes . in the french confession it is said , we beleeve that this true church ought to bee governed by that regiment or discipline , which our lord iesus christ hath established . ●n the belgick confession , i find words to the same purpose ▪ we beleeve , say they , that this church ought to be ruled and governed by that spirituall regiment , which god himselfe hath delivered in his word . see harm ; confes. sect. 11. if the question were only this , whether the divine right of this or that form of church-government is to be mentioned and held forth in the ordinance of parliament , for my part i should not contend much for that , the businesse going right otherwise . but it belongeth at least to the assembly of divines to satisfie the consciences of men by holding forth the institution and ordinance of jesus christ : which if it bee not done , our proceedings shall not be conformable to those of other churches . civilian . well then , goe on ; you did bring an argument from the kingly office of jesus christ . let me heare what other arguments you have to make it appeare that god hath in his word descended so farre into paricularities with us , as to appoint a certain forme of church-government . divine . this will appeare best , when the particular forme of church-government with the scripturall grounds of it , shall be taken into consideration . this government is iure divino . ergo , a government is iure divi●● . this were too large a subject for our conference . but i ●●mit you to what is largely written concerning it . i shall only put you in mind , that in all ages god hath by positive lawes descended into many particularities with man . take for instance beside the positive law before the fall , the commandement not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evill , other positive law● before the law , such as that of the distinction of clean and uncleane beasts , gen. 7. the law not to eat blood , gen. 9. the law of circumcision , gen. 17. under the law , beside morall and forensicall observances , there were many ceremoniall statutes . and under the gospell , christ and his apostles have left another law , which though it lay opon us , neither many nor burthensome performances , yet bindeth us to such and such things in ecclesiasticall policy . the particulars we find in the acts of the apostles , and in the epistles , especially to timothy and titus , and rom. 12. and 1. cor. 12. civilian . many particulars of that kind there are in the acts and epistles of the apostles . but that those things were intended as perpetuall and binding ordinances , is a great question . and beside i have heard some learned men make a distinction betwixt ius di●inum ; and ius apostolicum . divine . this distinction was used by those that denyed the jus divinum of the lords day . but surely i● i● an i●● grounded distinction , and those that make most use of it , are forced also to distinguish betwixt ius divinum , and ius mosaicum , holding that though god was the author of the morall law , yet moses ( no● god ) was the author of the judiciall and ceremoniall law : as the apostles did write some things as christs heraulds : other things as pastors or bishops of the churches ; that they were authors of the latter , promulgators only of the former , and that therefore the former only were iure divino . thus saith salmeron , but hee is in this contradicted by bellarmine , maldonat , suarez , and others . lorinus in psal. 88.32 . noteth , that it was one of the errors of valentinus and of the gnosticks , that the decalogue only was from god ; and other lawes from moses and the elders of israel . but what saith the apostle himselfe after hee hath given rules concerning the policy of the church , let the prophets speak two or three , and let the other judge ; and the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets . let your women keep silence in the churches , &c. then he addeth , 1. cor. 14.37 . if any man think himselfe to be a prophet or spirituall , let him acknowledge , that the things that i writ unto you , are the commandements of the lord . doe wee not also find , the laying on of hands reckoned among those cat●cheticall heads which the apostles did deliver as perpetuall to all the churches , heb. 6.2 . papists understand the episcopall confirmation . dwerse of our writers understand ordination of ministers , and the severall kinds of church officers . however it is agreed on both sides , it is a thing belonging to the policy of the church , not to the foundation of faith or piety . i adde that the directions given to timothy and titus are standing ordinances for all the churches , as may be proved from 1. tim. 3.15 . and 6.14 . and 2. tim. 2.2 . civilian . but ratio mutabilis facit praeceptum mutabile . the reason why there were ruling elders and deacons , and church-censures at that time was , because there was no chri●●ian magistrate . so that under a christian magistrate there is no necessity of such officers , government , or censures in the church . divine . i answer , first there is no ground at all in scripture for such a distinction , for the scripture holds not out one form of church-government , for times of persecution , another for times of peace . but rather one form to bee perpetuall and continued , till the second coming of jesus christ . rev. 2.24 , 25. that which ye● have already , hold fast till i come . so 1. tim. 6.14 . before cited , and the like . 2. chrysostome hom. 12. in 1. cor. doth shew diverse sinnes for which the best law-givers had appointed no punishment . and where there are christian magistrates , yet there are no lawes nor civill punishments for somethings which must needs fall within the compasse of church-discipline , such as ignorance of god , neglect of family worship , living in malice , or envy , &c. 3. and though the civill or municipall lawes should reach to all offences which are supposed to fall under the verge of church-discipline , yet there is still a necessary use of both . for instance , a traitor , or a murtherer being excommunicated by the church , is by the blessing of god gained to true repentance , humiliation , and confession , whereupon hee is loosed and remitted , and again received into the bosome of the church : neverthelesse the civill sword falleth upon him ; were hee never so penitent , shall such a one either escape the civill sword because reconciled to the church , or shall he after god hath given him mercy , and a great measure of repentance , die under the dreadfull sentence of excommunication , because justice must bee done by the magistrate . there is no way of avo●ding great inconveniences on both sides , but by holding the necessary distinct uses both of the sword of the magistrate , and censures of the church . 4. and when they are most coincident , it is but materially or objectively , not formally : one and the same man must bee civilly punished , because justice and the law of the land so requireth , and that the common wealth may bee kept in peace and order ; he must also bee ecclesiastically censured , that his soule may be humbled , that hee may bee filled with godly sorrow , and with shame and confusion of face , and drawn to repentance , ( if possible ) which the church , not the magistrate , driveth at . civilian . i have heard it asserted by some learned men , that among the jewes , there was no government nor discipline in the church distinct from the government of the state , yea , that there was no such distinction as church and state , but that the jewish church was the jewish state , and the jewish state the jewish church ; and if it was so among them ( whose formes you take in many particulars for patterns ) i would fain know why it may not be so among us . divine . though the jewish church and common wealth were for the most part not different materially , the same men being members of both , even as in all christian republickes , yet they were formally different one from another , in regard of distinct acts , lawes , courts , officers , censures , and administrations . for , 1. the ceremoniall law given was given to them as a church , the judiciall law given to them as a state . 2. they did not worship , doe sacrifice , pray , praise , &c. as a state ; nor did they kill malefactors with the sword as a church . 3. as the lords matters and the kings matters were distinguished , so there were two different courts for judging of the one and the other , 2. chron. 19.8.11 . fourthly , when the romans took away the jewish state and civill government , yet their church did remain . 5. the government of the state and the constitution thereof was not the same under the judges , under the kings , and after the captivity : shall we therefore say that the church was altered and new moulded , as oft as the civill government was changed . 6. learned master selden hath rightly observed , that those proselytes who were called prosiliti justitiae , though they were initiated into the jewish religion by circumcision , baptisme , and sacrifice ; and were free not only to worship god apart by themselves , but also to come into the church or congregation of the israelites , and did get to themselvs the name of jews : yet were restrained and debarred from dignities , magistracies and preferments , as also from some marriages which were permitted to the israelites . he addeth a simile of strangers initiated and associated into the church of rome , who yet have not the priviledge of roman citizens : whence we gather most apparently a distinction of the jewish church and the jewish state ; for as much as those proselytes were imbodied into the iewish church , and as church-members did communicate in the holy ordinances of god , yet they were not properly members of the iewish state , nor admitted to civil privileges . civilian . but i find no censure nor punishment of offences in the iewish church , except what the civill power did inflict , no such censure as excommunication or separation from the temple , synagoue or ordinances . and since you have cited master selden for you , i will cite him against you , for he saith in his late book , that hee who was separate or excommunicated among the jewes , was not excluded from the temple , sacrifices or holy assemblies , but only debarred from the liberty of civill worship , so that he might not sit within foure cubits of off his companion or neighbour . divine . i shall doe m. selden so much right as to appeal from him to himself , for in another place where he writeth at greater length of the jewish excommunication , he describeth it to have been a separation , not only from the former civill commerce and company in regard of that distance of foure cubits , but also from communicating together in prayer and holy assemblies . and that it was so , it is not only the most received opinion of protestant divines , but even of those who have devoted themselves to the study of the jewish antiquities , such as drusius , iohannes couh , l'empereur , and others . brughton also in his exposition of the lords prayer , pag. 14. &c. tells us that the jewish church and the apostolike church , though they differed about traditions and about the messiah , yet for government they agreed . he giveth instance in these particulars , the rulers of the synagogue , the readers of the law , and the prophets , the qualities of a bishop , or elder , the providing for the poor , the maner of excommunication and absolution , the laws to bridle elders from tyranny : all these are the same in both , saith he . now these men were most exquisitely acquainted with those studies and their testimonies may serve instead of many more that may be added . hereunto that distinction of 3. kinds of excommunication received from elias in thesbyte , niddui , herem , & sammatha , whether we understand as some doe , that niddui was a separation according to the ceremoniall law , and herem the devoting of one to death , and capitall punishment ; or whether we distinguish betwixt niddui & herem ( which two only are mentioned in the law ) as we use to doe betwixt excommunicatio minor , and major ; which is the opin●on of others . civilia●. it may be there was a separation or ejection from the temple , synagogue , & worship , but i deny that this was done judicially or by the sentence of a court , for as m. selden observeth , the very letter of the law , not any judiciall sentence did exclude the unclean from the temple . divine . i answer , men were excluded from the temple and worship , either for ceremoniall or morall uncleanes , the former is particularly determined in the law , the latter not so , but left as a necessary consequence from the law , for if god would have men kept back for ceremonial uncleanes , it may be for touching ( though casually and unwillingly ) a vessell , a seat , a cloth , a body , or somewhat else that was unclean ; surely it was much more his will that such as are morally unclean by a prophane or scandalous life , should not be admitted . however it was necessary that matters of fact should bee examined by a court , whether they did fall within the verge of the law or not . but what will you say , if i give you scripture for excommunication , by a judiciall sentence . ezra 10.8 . we read of a mixed meeting of the princes , elders , priests and levites , where it was decreed that whosoever would not come to ierusalem within 3. dayes , should be punished , with the forfeiture of all his substance ; and himselfe separated from the congregation of those that had been carried away . a double punishment civil and ecclesiastical , forfeiture and excommunication , according as that extraordinary occasion made a conjuncture and concurrence of the civill and the ecclesiasticall sanedrim at that time , lyra , hugo cardinalis , cajetan , and of ours diodati , and lavater , all upon the place ( beside others who cite the place occasionally ) do agree that the separation from the congregation ( {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} as the 70. read it , it is kahal in the hebrew ) is meant of excommunication from the temple and worship : even as that casting out mentioned , isa 66.5 . so in the new testament this iniquity was established by a law , that whosoever should confesse that jesus was the christ , should be cast out of the synagogue , 10.9.22 . and 12.42 . and 16.2 . civilian . but there is not in all the law of moses any syllable of such an excommunication as you speak of , except you take that to be it , which is often repeated in the law , that soule shall be cut off from among his people . now that may be expounded either of capitall punishment and cutting off by the hand of the magistrate ; or ( as ainsworth and m. selden following the most part of the hebrewes expound it ) of cutting off by the hand of god , that is , th●● god would not suffer such a one to live out halfe his dayes , but take him away by an untimous dea●h . divine . i know that both jewish and christian interpreters have much differed among themselves , in expounding that commination of the law . but i shall only offer my reasons against these two glosses which you have mentioned , and then tell you what i conceive to be the true meaning . to expound all those places of the magistrates cutting off men by death , were to make the laws of god more bloody then draco's : i appeal to your self , doe you thinke it at all credible , that god would have men put to death for eating of the fat , or the blood , though by chance , for making a perfume like the preistly perfume to smell , for touching a dead body , or a grave , or a tent , wherein a man had died , or for touching something which he that was uncleane had touched , and not being sprinkled thereafter with the water of seperation : yet for these and the like ceremomoniall defilements and tresspasses , men were to be cut off from the congregation of israel now for that other exposition , of cutting off by the hand of god , that which they take for the ground and foundation of it , that is , that the cutting off , mentioned in the law , is understood only of private sinnes , known to god only , and which could not be proved by witnesses , this i say , if it could be proved , would indeed make good their interpretation , but the truth is , it is a meere conjecture , for which they have no warrant in the word . nay , the word is against it : for the end of that cutting off , w●s that the children of israel might feare to doe that , which they s●● so sore punished , levit. 17 4.5 . which use they could not make of a divine judgement inflicted for a private sinne . i know they doe further object from levit. 17.10 . & 20.5.6 . that the cutting off , was a work of god , not of men ; but to that i say , it was not so , except in extraordinary cases , when men , who should have cut off the wicked ; did it not : and this appears plainly from levit. 20.4 , 5. and if the people of the land hide their eyes from the man , when he giveth of his seed unto molech , and kill him not : then ( marke then , and in that case ) i will set my face against that man , and against his family , and will cut him off . wherefore i conclude , that the cutting off in the law , and especially , in the ceremoniall law , can be nothing else but excommunication from the church , and communion in the holy things . which as it is most received among our expositors , so the apostle . 1 cor. 5. doth give us a hint of it : for as it is plaine from vers . 6 , 7 , 8. that he alludes to the history of the passover , exod. 12. so when he saith , vers. 13. put away from among your selves that wicked person , he hath respect to , exo. 12.19 . where it it is said , whosoever eateth that which is leavened , even that soul shall be cut off from the congregation of israel . all this i conclude with a passage of mr. williams his bloody tenent , cap. 121. where though he doth not acknowledg a spirituall excommunication in the jewish church , yet he acknowledgeth such a coercive power in cutting off , as hath for the antitype and paralell of it excommunication in the ghristian church . out of that blessed temporall estate , ( saith he ) to be cast or carried captive , was their excommunication or casting out of gods sight . 2 kings 17.23 . therefore was the blasph●●●● the false prophet , the idolater , to be cast out , or cut off ●●●m this holy land : which punishment cannot be parrallelld by the punishment of any state or kingdome in the world , but only by the excommunicating or out-casting of person or church from the fellowship of the saints and churches of christ iesus in the gospel ; for this spirituall cutting off , he citeth 1. cor. 5. gal. 5. behold he who hath pleaded most for the liberty of conscience , is forced to acknowledge the censure of excommunication . civilian . but can you show any warrant fro● the new testament for church censures and excommunication , as an institution and ordinance of christ . i know your magna charta , which you pretend to , is mat. 18.17 . tell the church , and if he heare not the church , let him be unto thee , as an heathen man , & a publican . but the sence of that place , i take to be that which was given by erastus and bilson , that is , that in the case of private and civill injuries , the injured party should first of all seek right and reparation of the wrong , of the injuring party , which if it take not effect , then to doe it before witnesses , and if that also prevaile not , then to tell the church , that is the sanedrim of the jewes , which was a civill judicature , and if the man that hath done wrong , will not stand to the sentence of the sanedrim , that then one should deale with him as with an heathen , or a publican , that is , complain of him to the roman emperor or his deputies . mr. prynne , in his late booke called independency examined , pag. 10. following master seldens judgement , holdeth , that by the church , matth. 18.17 . is not meant any ecclesiasticall judicatory , but the civill court , or sanedrim of the jewes , even as ib. pag. 11. he holdeth the assembly of the apostles elders and brethren , act. 15. to be an undeniable scripture authority , for parliaments as well as for synods , to come together upon all like occasions . and as for these words , let him be thee as an heathen and a publicane , he understandeth the meaning to be , that not the church , but the party offended , is to avoid his company : taking the same to be meant , 2 thes. 3.14 . a place which i have also heard alledged for church dicipline , and censures . divine . though mr. prynne be a man much esteemed by me , both for his sufferings , and much good service done by him in the church , yet i must say , he wrongs both the truth and himself , in taking upon him to goe against the whole current of interpreters , antient and moderne , without any evidence of reason : and he must remember , that in these particulars , hee doth not so much oppose the independents , as all the reformed churches , while as he goeth about to throw out of their hands the chief scriptures upon which they ground church discipline . now all the circumstances of the text , make against that exposition , and prove , that it is not a civill , but a spirituall court , which christ there establisheth . for 1. those words , if thy brother trespasse against thee , are not ment of personall or civill injuries ( of which our saviour christ would not be judge , luke 12.14 . ) but as augustine , tostatus , and others doe rightly expound them , they are to be understood , of all manner of scandalls , by which we trespasse against our brother , in as much as we trespasse against the law of charity , which commandeth us to edify one another , and to promote the spirituall good one of another : now when a christian doth not only not edify , but scandalize , which is a deterioration ; yea , ( so farre as lieth in him ) a destruction of his brothers soule ; this is undeniably a great trespasse against his brother : which kind of trespasse , as the king , and head of the church , jesus christ , whose kingdom is not of this world was to take speciall notice of : so the coherence and depend●nce of the text , giveth further evidence , that this , and no other kinde of trespasses is here intended , there being so much spoken of scandalls in the preceeding passages of that chapter . 2. as the case supposed , so the end proposed is spirituall , that is , that the offended brother should reprove the offanding brother ; and tell him his fault , and that for the good of his soul : if he shall heare thee , thou hast gained thy brother ; that is , thou hast rescued his soule by repentance , from sinne , and so from the wrath of god : wherein christ had respect to that law . lev. 19.17 . thou shalt not hate thy brother in thy heart : thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour , and not suffer sinne upon him . 3. the persons judging , are not civill but ecclesiasticall , tell it unto the church , now in all the new testament , the name of the church is not given to any civill magistrate . nay christ himself doth immediately give us notice , that by the church there he means the ministers and rulers of the church , for thus he applyeth it unto the apostles , and their successors , whatsoever ye shall binde , &c. and if two of you shall agree , &c. and here by the way , i must tell you , that if the jewish sanedrim were here mean● ( as it is not ) you could not thence conclude that a civill court is meant , for there was an ecclesiastical sanedrim , distinct from the civill , as beside many other great authors is proved by constantinus , l' emp. annot. in c●● . middoth , p. 188. and de rep. iud. p. 389. which ecclesiasticall sanedrim were the rather to be understood in this text , because the other sanedrim was destroyed by herod . 4. the way and manner of proceeding , is also ecclesiasticall , not civill ; when church governours meet about those things , it must be with prayer , vers. 19. and it must be in the name of christ , vers. 20. which places , though they well agree to all holy assemblies and meetings for worship , yet the context sheweth , that they are principally intended concerning assemblies for discipline and church censures ; and so tostatus , hugo cardinalis , with our own divines , doe expound the text . 5. the censure is spirituall , as appeareth both by the ●llusion to the jewish excommunication ( of which i have spoken before ) in those words , let him be unto thee as a heathen , or a publican , and by the phrase of binding the soule , or retaining of sinnes , vers. 18. which power , our lord elsewhere giveth to his apostles , mat. 16.19 . io. 20.23 . formes of speech , which no where the scripture useth of any civill power : only it is to be observed , that in these two places last cited , the apostles get power to binde and loose by their doctrine and preaching , but here , mat. 18. to binde and loose by discipline , as appeareth by the use to be made of witnesses , vers. 16. that is , potestas clavium doctrinalis : this potestas clavium disciplinalis . that is misticall : this politicall . and whereas it is objected , that the text saith not , let him be to the church , but , let him be to thee as an heathen and a publican . i answer , it is supposed , that he must be such in the judgement of the church , before he be such to me . this pareus upon the place , proveth from the words that follow , whatsoever ye shall bind , &c. therefore saith he , the church is first to bind him , that is , excommunicate him , and then he is to be to me as an heathen , and a publican . beside , if it were not so , horrible confusion should follow , while as any private man may excommunicate and cast off whomsoever he judgeth to be disobedient to the church , though peradventure he hath no just cause to judge so . 6. it was very farre from the minde of jesus christ , that his disciples should for private injuries prosecute one another , before the roman emperour or his deputie : this being so much blamed by the apostle paul . 1 cor. 6.1 . dare any of you , having a matter against another , got to law before the unjust , vers. 6 , 7. brother go●th to law against brother , and that before the unbeleavers . now therefore , there is utterly a fault amongst you . civilian . can you shew any example or practice of such an excommunication in the new testament : for that place , 1 cor. 5.5 . i doubt shall not prove , there being not only great authors , but great reasons for another exposition , as mo●li●s sheweth in his v●tes . l. 2. tc . 11. namely that this delivering to sathan , was for bodily afflictions and torments , which was not in the power of ordinary ministers to doe , but was a prerogative of the apostles . divine . if you will , i can debate that with you , both from that very text , and from other reasons , that this delivering to sathan , was an act not of the apostle alone , but of the presbytery of corinth , whereby is meant excommunication , which is a cutting off from the fellowship of the church , and so co●sequ●ntly . ● delivering to sathan , who reignes without the church , and holdeth captive at his pleasure the children of disobedience . or if you will , i can take a shorter course with you . for whatsoever may be the meaning of that phrase , tradere satana , it is most plaine , that excommunication is in that chapter , vers. 6 , 7. know ye not , that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lumpe , purge out therefore the old leaven , verse 11. if any man that is called a brother , be a fornicatour , &c. with su●h an one , no no● to ●●●e . vers. 12. doe not ye ●udge them that are within , vers. 13. therefore put away from among your selves that wicked person . 2 cor. 2.6 . sufficient to such a man , is this punishment or censure ) inflicted by many . but i suppose , i shall not need to prove church-censures , and excommunication in the church of c●rin●h : which moulins himself doth fully acknowledge to be held forth in that same place . civilian . i will thinke further upon these things . devine . you may doe so , and withall , read what 〈◊〉 hath written against erastus , and wala●● against wite●●ogardus . civilian . but tell me now your opinion of another matter , and that is concerning liberty of conscience , and toleration of hereticks and se●taries for which there are so many bookes written of late , and so few against i● ▪ i doe not know what you will pronounce of it , from the principles of your profession , but i beleeve , that as in germany , france , holland , poland , yea under the turkish tyranny , contrary religions , and opposite professions and practises , have been , and are tolerated upon state-principles , so it shall be englands unhappinesse , though not to chose , yet to be necessitated to grant such a tolleration , for avoiding a rupture in the kingdome , and for preserving an union against the common enenmy . divine . this question about the toleration of those whose way is different from the common rule which shall be established , must be both stated and resolved , cum ●rano salis . we must remember to distinguish person● from corporations or churches , and both these from errors . againe , to distinguish persons , wh●ther godly and gratious , or loose and libertin , whether moderate and peaceable , or ●actious and turbulent ; whether such as have deserved well o● the publike , or such as have done either no service or a disservice . to distinguish corporation , whether the qu●stion be of such onely as have a present existence , or of all who shall joyne to such a way afterward . to distinguish err●rs , whether practicall or doctrinall onel● ▪ whether fundamentall , or circafundamentall , or neither of the two . to distinguish toleration , whether absolute , or hypotheticall and conditionall , whether anywhere , or in som● few certaine places onely , whether indifinite and generall , or limited and bounded , and if bounded , how far and how much : whether ●uch toleration as may stand with the solemne league and covenant , or such as is inconsistent therewith ; whether such as is profitable for the publike peace , or such as is apparently destructive thereto . these and the like particulars i doe not intend to fall upon at this instant . only this i say , that to open a wide doore , and to grant an unbounded liberty unto all sort of hereticks and sect●ries , ( which is the thing that the good samaritan , and iohn the baptist , the blood , tenent , and others of that kind do plead for as it is inconsistent with the solemne league and covenant of the three kingdomes , by which we are obliged to endeavour the extirpation of popery , prelacie , superstition , heresie and schism● , least we partake in other mens sinnes , and thereby be in danger to receive of their plagues : so it is in the owne nature of it , an error so pernicious , so abominable , so monst●ous , that it maketh all learned men to stand amazed , and taken with horrour , in so much that they can not at first gather their thoughts to put pen to paper against it . i know this liberty and toleration was maintained by the donatists of old and by the socinians , arminians , and anabaptists of late ▪ but it hath beene constantly opposed by all that were sound and orthodoxe , both ancient and moderne , who have asserted the lawfull use of a coercive powe● against those things , whereby ( though under pretence of conscience ) god is openly dishonoured , soules ensnared and destroyed , faith or piety subverted and overthrowne : and further , the compelling of the outward man , though not to the practise of things indifferent ( which compulsion i doe not allow ) yet to the practise of necessary duties , and to the externall use of meanes and ordinances , by which through the blessing of god , mens hearts and consciences may be savingly affected and wrought upon . and i beseech you what else meaneth asa's covenant , that whosoever would not seeke the lord god of israel should be put to death whether small or great , whether man or woman . and what else meaneth iosiahs covenant , whereof it is said , he caused all that were present in ierusalem and benjamin , to stand to it . and what else is that in ezra , that whosoever would not come to ierusalem to make a covenant , and to put away the strange wives , all his substance should be forfeited , and himselfe separated from the congregation of those that had beene carried away , that is , excommunicated . and what else is that other act of iosiah in putting downe the priests of the high places . and what say you to the law of stoning those who did intice the people to turne out of the way wherein the lord commanded them to walke , saying , let us goe after other gods and serve them . civilian . i would rather heare some arguments from the new testament , for i doubt these from the old testament shall be more subject to exception . divine . to me it is plaine , that these things doe as much concerne us now , as the jewes of old , which whosoever denieth , must shew , that either we may take no rules nor patternes from the old testament : or that the foresaid lawes and practises were not intended by the holy ghost to binde us , ( as other things in the old testament doe ) but were ceremoniall and typicall , intended to bind the jewes onely . mr. williams in his bloody tenant ( though i doe not remember that anywhere he answereth to those particular passages which i have cited , yet ) perceiving that such arguments from the old testament can not be taken off without this answer , that all these were typicall and figurative : he therefore goeth much upon that ground , and so deviseth more types and figures in the old testament then ever any body did before him , and pleaseth himselfe with such fancies and conjectures therein , as i dare say , will satisfie no indifferent reader : and in effect making void by his principles all arguments from the old testament , so that we may not from the examples of the godly kings of iudah , teach christian magistrates what their duty is , nor argue thus , god commanded that the kings of iudah should have a copy of the book of the law by them , and read therein , that they should not multiply wives , &c. therefore christian princes should search the scriptures , should not multiply wives , &c. or thus . the priests and levites had a sufficient maintenance . therefore so should the ministers of the gospell : or thus ; the jewes were commanded to rest from all servile labour on the sabbath day . therefore so should christians on the lords day : or thus ; warres were lawfull in the old testament ; therefore they are lawfull still . or the like . all these shall be cast aside , upon this ground , they were tipicall , therefore no patterns to us . but because you desire an argument from the new testament : i will convince your judgement from thence also : sure i am , i have better grounds in the new testament , against the toleration now in question , then master iohn goodwin hath found for it , in his text , act. 5.38.39 . he holdeth that we may build upon gamaliels speech , as authorised by god , there being nothing in all this speech ( excepting only the historicall instances , the truth of which , it seems was generally known , and is attested by iosephus their great historian ) but what is fully consonant with the word of god , saith he . and so he approveth the sceptik principles of that nullifidian , who razeth the very foundation of the christian faith , and maketh it a very doubtfull case whether the apostles doctrine was from god , or from men . but i proceed to my arguments . first , you shall doe well to remember what i said concerning church censutes , from matth. 18. under which scandalous and obstinate delinquents , doe fall , the pretence of conscience , being no exception for them . the ministers of the gospel have in readinesse to revenge all disobedience , 2 cor. 10.6 . the angel of the church of ephesus is commended , because of his zeal , in that he could not beare those who called themselves apostles and were not . revel. 2.2 . contrariwise , the angel of the church of perga●●● is blamed , for this reason , because then hast there them that teach the doctrine of balaam , &c. so hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the nicolaitans . revel. 2.14.15 . that is , because thou hast tolerated them , and hast not cast them out . it is thy fault , that they are there in the church . the like challenge is sent to the angel of the church of thyatira , vers. 20. i have a few things against thee , because thou sufferedst that woman iezebell , who calleth her self a prophetesse , to teach , and to seduce my servants , &c. that chapter is so cleare for the point , that master williams acknowledgeth it proves fully , that christ hath endued the ministers and governours of his church , with power to suppresse heresy and errour , and the spreaders thereof , be who they will be . see the bloody tenent . c. 57. so iohn the baptist . pag. 63. confesseth that the church of thy●●ra was justly taxed , not only for not controuling and reproving iexebel , but also , in that they permitted her to seduce weak christians , without cutting her off by the sword of the spirit , the power of excommunication . civilian . i was about to answer the same , that if those places prove any thing , it is onely the suppressing of hereticks and schismaticks by church censures , not at all by the civill coercive power of the magistrate . divine . i thought with my selfe , i should neede say no more , having proved that heriticks and shismaticks , though miscarrying with so much opinion of conscience , as to thinke themselves apostles or prophets , may be censured and cast out of the church ( which is the case , revel. 2. ) i did never imagine but where the soule is punished with the greatest punishment which can be inflicted on earth , that is , excomunication ; much more may the body be punished by the magistrate , as the degree of the offence shall require : especially considering that the magistrat is a nursing father to the church , and is to protect and assist her , not to suffer her authority and censures to be despised and set at nought . but to satisfie you yet more touching the magistrats part , consider well that passage rom. 13.4 . for he is the minister of god to thee for good , but if thou doe that which is evill be afraid , for he beareth not the sword in vaine : for he is the minister of god , a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doth evill . civilian . this place and all that you can say in that kind doth not warrant nor iustifie persecution , for the cause of conscience , but onely the punishment of all such evill doers as doe disturbe the peace of the kingdome , or the course of civill justice , oppose magistrats or lawes , traitors , rebells , murtherers , felons , and the like . iohn the baptist pag. 57. saith , if a breach of peace , the civill powers ought to redresse it . 1. tim. 2.1.2 . but for the magistrate to interpose in matters meerly ecclesiasticall , otherwise then spiritually , and as a minister of the gospell , i find no warrant for it , in all the gospel . divine now you are come to your last refuge wherein i know you put great confidence : but i am as confident it cannot serve your turne , which i prove thus , 1. by this tenent you give a more dangerous wound to the power of the civill magistrate then you are aware of , for in stead of m●king him keeper of both tables you make him keeper of the second table on●ly , at least vindex of ● onely , whereas god hath made him as well vindex as custos utriusque tabula . 2. in t●e place i last cited , the apostle maketh no exception nor restriction , but will have all evill doers ( to which category i suppose heretickes and sedu●ers doe belong to be afraid of vengeance by the hand of the magistrate . 3. the apostle there doth once and againe call the magistrate , the minister of god , as it were purposely putting him in mind , that he judgeth not for man but for the lord , and that he is to looke most to things pertaining to god . 4. there may be a coincidencie of those things which you put assunder : for example , suppose a jesuite killing a magistrate ▪ or some other hereticke killing one who hath beene most opposite to him ; or as sometime the case was ) suppose men causing their children to goe through the f●re as a sacrifice to their god molech , all these ( though murthers ) ye●●re done for conscience sake , men being perswaded in their conscience , that they are doing good service to god , as it is said of those that killed the apostles . what say you to that case ▪ shall the punishment of those be persecution for the cause of co●science . 5. i cannot marvell enough , that it should be heard from the mo●th of any christian , that the magistrate is to pun sh injuries done to the state , but not injuries done to the chur●h ▪ that he is to punish those who destroy mens bodies , but not those that destroy mens soules : that whosoever will draw away people from the obedience of the magistrate , and of the law of the land , must not be suffered : but they who will draw away people from the truth of the gospel , and from the wayes of god , such as hymeneus and philetus , who overthrow the faith of some , and their word will eat , as doth a canker , must escape unpunished . and so christian magistrates and states , shall take up the maxime which tacitus tells was holden by tyberius caesar , deorum injurias diis cura esse : but for their part , they shall stand by as gallio did , and care for none of those things . be astonished at this , o ye heavens . civilian . but in the meane time i can tell you one thing , that it is a mighty prejudice that lies in the mindes of many against the prysbetery , that tyranny and rigour doe accompany it . and this now bringeth into my minde some other prejudices . i have seene a booke come from oxford , entituled , an answer by letter to a worthy gentleman , who desired of a divine some reasons , by which it might appeare how inconsistent presbyteriall government is with monarchy . in which i finde many things which breed an odium of that government . among other things , it tells me , that this is one of the articles of the presbyterian faith . no minister preaching in publike , sedition or treason or railing at king , councell , the prince , iudges , is accountable , or punishable by king , parliament , councell , or any indicature whatsoever . but from all hee may appeale to the sanhedrum or consistory , as the sole and proper competent iudge . and as if this were a small thing not to subject to the magisteate , they will have the magistrate subject to them , insomuch that they may excommunicate the magistrate , even the king himselfe if he obey them not : that the presbytery hindereth the liberty of trade and commerce , disgraceth and desameth young women for conversing familiarly with men , suffereth not land-lords to sue for their rents , and the like . that they bring all cases and causes under their cognition and judgement , sub formalitate scandali , under the notion of scandall , and for the glory of god . it tells also a number of stories and practicall examples for confirmation of those particulars . what say you to that ? divine . i have seen and read the book , which surely was written by the speciall inspiration of the father of lies , that the ●mple people who never yet sawe a presbytery , may be made afraid of it , as of some hellish monster , as the french friars made the people beleeve , that the hugonots were ugly monsters with swines faces , and asses eares . but men of understanding will not be taken with such bold and shamelesse calumnies as come from the pen of that son of belial . i could name both the author , and the lying records of a persecuting prelate , whence he borrowed his stories , in which there are many known untruths ; and where there is any truth in the matters of fact which he relates , there is such addition of his own interpretations of mens actions , such variation of circumstances , and such concealing of the true grounds , ends , and circumstances of such actions , as maketh them to appear quite another thing then they were . and if his stories of the speeches , actions , or opinions of particular men were all true ( as they are not ) yet how doth that prove that presbyteriall government is inconsistent with monarchy . magistracie , laws , trading , peace . &c. this must be proved from the principles or necessarie concomitants of presbyteriall government , not from the actions or speeches of this or that private man , especially they having so said or done not in any reference to presbyteriall government , but occasionally in reference to such or such persons or purposes . as now if i should rake up the dunghill of all the treasons , conspiracies , oppressions , persecutions , adulteries , blasphemies , heresies , atheisticall opinions , superstitions , prophanities of such or such prelates , ( of which the histories of former times and late experience are full ) and thence conclude that episcopall government is inconsistent with monarchy , with the safety of the kingdome , with the liberty of the subject , with the peace of the church , with piety , &c. surely that same author would be ready to answer me , that this must be proved from their received principles , nor from particular practises . now that ministers preaching treason , or committing any other trespasse punishable by the law of the land , is not to be judged by the civill magistrate , nor any civill court , but may appeale from all these to the ecclesiasticall judicatory , is none of our principles : but it is a popish and prelaticall usurpation , as appeareth by the brittish ecclesiasticall constitutions , collected by spel●●an . so that the oxfordian missed his mark extreamly when he charged it upon presbyterians , who hold that ministers are as much subject unto , and as punishable by the magistrate , as any other of the subjects . and as ministers are subject to every ordinance of man , so we suppose the christian magistrate will not take it ill to be subject to all the ordinances of jesus christ , i shall give you a short but clear account of our judgement concerning both these , in the words of the second book of the discipline of the church of scotland , chap. 1. as ministers are subject to the judgement and punishment of the magistrate in externall things , if they offend : so ought the magistrates to submit themselves to the discipline of the church , if they transgresse in matters of c●●science and religion . and lest you should think this proper to the classicall and synodicall government : m. cotton will tell you it is just so in the congregationall government , of the keyes of the kingdome of heaven , pag. 53. as the church ( saith he ) is subject to the sword of the magistrate in things which concerne the civill peace : so the magistrate ( if christian ) is subject to the keyes of the church , in matters which concerne the peace of his conscience , and the kingdom of heaven . the latter cannot bee denied in thesi , no more then the former : and when it comes to the hypothesis , there is much to bee trusted to the prudence and discretion of pastors and ruling elders ; and when all comes to all , the failing is more like to be in the defect , then in the excesse . but to say , that a magistrate , because a magistrate , is not bound in conscience to submit himselfe to the ordinance of discipline , though he shedde innocent blood , commit adultery , bl●spheame the name of god , &c. may inferre for ought i know , that a magistrate is not bound to be subject to any of all the ordinances of jesus christ . it is condemned as an error in plato , that he held it lawfull for a magistrate to make an officious lie , for the good of the common-wealth ; but not lawfull for a subject . the error of our civilians is greater , who will have magistrates so to rule us , that christ shall not rule them . civilian . i suppose it is high time to adjourne , till we 〈◊〉 another occasion of amicable and free confe●e●● which time it is like enough our opinions ●●y●● 〈◊〉 accord . the points of which we have talked a●● 〈◊〉 many and weighty , which therefore i will take to 〈◊〉 second thoughts . and so much for this time , far 〈◊〉 . divine . consider what i say , and the lord give you understand●●● in all things . finis . errata . pag. 12. l. 20. country , read county . p. 15. l. 13. op●●r . up●● p● l. 2. 3. civill worship , r. civill fellowship . ibid. l. 15. c●●●● , r , 〈◊〉 ibid. in marg. redbat , r. redibat . p. 21.10 . that , r. adde that . p. 〈◊〉 l. 13. care , r. law . ibid. ex , r. & . p. 30. l. 17. witen●ogurdus , r. 〈◊〉 bogurdus . smaller errors and punctations , and the like , the 〈◊〉 der will pardon . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a42764e-220 * deut. 23.15 . * ●●al . 78.34 . caiv. opuse . de s●andalis gu●s evang●l● pro 〈◊〉 la●●● in germanian 〈◊〉 , & ●●●zae adbuc e●sent corum 〈◊〉 , qu● ad tuendam bonam causam videbantur animati , ha●que f●●ucia susceptum esset luctuosum b●c bellum , quodque , insel●c●ter● 〈◊〉 : ●rectis ● magnas spes , p●rt●s nostrae animis ; d●xi al quando publ●è , plus à nostra , quàm hostium victoria , nobis instare pericul●●● eque enim tam● m●tuenda● esse ullas clades , quàm n●m●s triumpha●e , ●t ita loquar , evangelium , quod nos adinsolentiam efferret . no● vero me i●ius voc●s bod●e quoque paenites . nisi prophanae licentiae dominis matu . e obviam ●●sset , morbus fu●sset temporis successis procemodum incurab●lis . nulle dollrinae piisgu● monitionibus fuisset authoritas , &c. act. & monu vol. z. p. 1373. edit. 1583. in vit. iul. agri● . matth. 6.33 . m●l 3.10 . isa. 2● . 1.1 . 〈◊〉 ● . 30 . 〈…〉 . 〈…〉 p●●l . 2●● . antiqd . 8 c. 2. hag. 1.2 . de repub. l. ● . c. 12. quicunque principes atque re●pub . semet ipsas conservare cupiunt , in id unum prae caeteris , incumbere debeu● , ut verum religionis cul●umrecte instituant & vanerentur . et infra , quod si haec tam d●ligens cura divini cultus , à reipub. christian● princip●bus observata esset , secundum primā institutionem , & praecepta ejus , qui illam nobis primum tradidit : longe majori faelicitate , a● pace in orbe christi●●● frueremur . valerius maximus l. 1. c. 2. gives us fix instances of examplarie judgements among the romans ; which were observed to fall upon such as despised religion , & the honour of the gods . iob. 10.2 . 1. cor. 3.18 . rom. 12.2 . luk. 16.10 . 1. king. 12.33 . isa 22.21 , 2● . luk. 1.33 . tr●ct . 62. in acta . de jure natur . & gentium . l● . 2. cap. 4. proselytus iustitiae , utcunque nova●o patriae nom●ne iudaeus d●c●●tur , no● tam quidem ●●vis iudaicus simpliciter censendus esset quam peregrinus semper cu● jur● quamplirima ●●ter cives . s●lden . loc. citat . de anno civili iudaeor cap 18. neque enimà templo , sacrificiis , aut conv u●ib●s sacris om●ino quis apud cos ex sententia ●liqua excommunicationis , sive sivensi , sive alia hum●na arcendus er●● . solden de ihre natur . & gent. li. 4. c. 9. atque 〈◊〉 plane à communicatione orationis , & conventus , & omnis sancti commerci● relegabatur , ●●●madmodum ae hujusmodi an●themate , sub i●itii● ecclesiae christianae loquitur tertullianus . drusius quast. & resp. lib. 1. quaest. 9. solcbant autem vet●res ( judaei ) si qui● gravius deliquerat , primum eum mavere caelu ecclesiastico : si non emendabat se , tum feritbant anathemate : quod si ne tum quidem redbat ad frugem , ultimo at postremo loco sa●●tizaba●t . iohannes coch. annot. in exc gemar . sanedrim . cap. 1. qui simpliciter excommunicatu● est ( menud●e ) est ille quidem separatus à caetu , it a ut provero membro ecclesiae non habeatur . dr. buxt●rf . dissert. de literis hebraeor . th . 49. hath observed a notable passage in pirke , and in iela●●●d●un , which maketh much for this po'nt in hand . it is concerning the samaritans , who being circumcised by two elders of israel sent to them , and having received the book of the law , were afterwards upon just causes excommunicated by ezra . quid secit esr●● & zerubbabel filius shealtiel , & iehosua filius iehozadek ? convocaverunt totum caetum in templum domini , & ve●●re fecerunt trecentos sacerdotes , tr●centos pueros , trecentas buccinas , & trecentos libros legis i● manu ●orum , qui elangeba●t , levitae ●●o canebant & psallebant , & excommunicabant ( i● lelammeden● {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} that is , they did excommunicate in all the three degrees or kinds of excommunication ) cutheos per secretum nominis tetragrammati , & per scripturam quae scripta suit in tabulis , & per anathema domus iudicii superioris , & per anathema judicii inferioris ; ne quis unquam ex israele comederet panem cuthaei , unde dixerunt ; quisquis comederit carnem cuthei , perinde est ac si comederet carnem perei : it●● ne quisquam cuthaeum faceret proselytum , h. c. in iuda snum reciperet , &c. whereby it is manifest , that the jewish excommunication was a shutting out as well from sacred as from civill communion , and that by publick authority . de anno civili , cap. 18. exod. 30.38 lev. 7.15.17 . num. 29.13 . 20. c●rtum quid●m e●t , pa●lum ve●l● bun● incestum ●overi c●mmunion● ec●lesia : ● d i● vu't fier● ab i●sa ecclesia : cori●t●iaca , dice●s , vers. 13. tollite ilium s●●leratum de medio vestrum v●lt ●nim id fieri mi●i●terii ordinarii ●●●h●rit●te m●lia . uttes , lib. 2. ●ap . 11. 2 chro. 15.13 . 2 chro 34.32 . ezra 10.8 . 2 kings 23.5 . deut. 13.5 . 6. deut. 17.17 , 18 , 19. isay 49.23 . 2 chro. 19.6 . ●o . 16. ● . 2 tim. 2.17 , 18 act. 18.17 . pag. 76. pag. 26. pag. 13 , 14.15 . ●●●el . ●●●●aen . , tom . 1. pag. 413 nullus au●em rex bab●t porestatem constituend . prectium super aliquem ecclesiasticum sacris or denibus obligatum , vel super membra , vel sanguinem , vel saraed ejus , vel super aliquem de suis , qu●a quisque ecclesiast : cus ut praedictus , babet potest●tē per leg●m ecclesiasticam orob . and in synodo , quodl●be : nocum●atum vel da●mum qued ei l●icus sa●iat , aut rex aut alius . item nu●rtenus tales ecclesiasticus potest compells ad re●pond●●●●● ali●●●i extra synodum , de delict is s●bi oppositis . du●●nus de sacr. ecci . minist ●i 1. c. 2. canfesseth that de causes civilibus clericorum , nan sacerdotes elim , sed praesi●es & mgis magistratus ●●● s●●●ant , &c. verum constitutiones romanorum pontisicum , hu●e juri uon parum derogevorun● quibus ca●cum est n●n so'um ut clevici ad mag str●t●s tribunal i●●viti non trabantur , s●d ut ●● v●lo●tes ●uidem jurisdictioni magstratus se subj●cere pas●●nl , s●ve civ●lis sit , sive criminal●s camsa . a lerned epistle of m. iohn fraser: bachler of diuinitie to the ministers of great britanie wherin he sheweth that no man ought to subscribe to their confession of faith. and that their presumed authorite to excommunicate anie man, especially catholiques, is vaine and foolish. fraser, john, d. 1605. 1605 approx. 132 kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from 54 1-bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : 2008-09 (eebo-tcp phase 1). a01221 stc 11335 estc s118714 99853921 99853921 19324 this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons 0 1.0 universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase 1, no. a01221) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set 19324) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, 1475-1640 ; 1097:16) a lerned epistle of m. iohn fraser: bachler of diuinitie to the ministers of great britanie wherin he sheweth that no man ought to subscribe to their confession of faith. and that their presumed authorite to excommunicate anie man, especially catholiques, is vaine and foolish. fraser, john, d. 1605. 98, [2] p. printed by l. kellam] permissu superiorum, [douai : 1605. publication place and printer's name from stc. running title reads: an epistle to the ministers of great britanie. reproduction of the original in the british library. created by converting tcp files to tei p5 using tcp2tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to 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characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p5, characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng church of england -controversial literature. church -early works to 1800. excommunication -early works to 1800. 2006-12 tcp assigned for keying and markup 2007-01 apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images 2007-04 emma (leeson) huber sampled and proofread 2007-04 emma (leeson) huber text and markup reviewed and edited 2008-02 pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a lerned epistle of m. iohn fraser : bachler of divinitie to the ministers of great britanie . wherin he sheweth that no man ought to subscribe to their confession of faith . and that their presumed authorite to excommunicate anie man , especially catholiques , is vaine and foolish . permissu superiorum . 1605. to the ●vritaine ministers of great britanie his covntreymen iohn fraser vvisheth vpright mynd tovvarde bothe god and prince . hearing of your extraordinarie dealing , according to the nature of your extraordinarie calling , in outward shew onely gainst catholique men , in very deed against o the god & prince . i thought it my duetie or the publike good , to write some thing ouching that subiect where by ye might nderstand how ye deceaue your selues , and buse others in that mater ; which is this : ●e labour by al meanes to constraine men , ●ho at catholique ( for as to others men ye ● not very careful ) to approue sweare and ●bscribe your confession of faith ; and in case they refuse , ye take vpon you to excōmunicat them . wherefore with godds grace we shal latt you see , that no honest man , true subiect or good christian with safe conscience , can approue sweare or subscribe your forsaid confession : & that ye haue no power at al to excōmunicat any man : and although ye had , yet could ye not excommunicat catholique men . 2. as a plaine dealer without further preface i wil enter in the matter . thē to the first head , it is certaine that whosoeuer wil sweare and subscribe your new confession , contrarie to the duetie of an honest man , putteth him self in hazard to be mensworne , and that in the very entrie of his othe : for thir be your words , if i rightly remember : vve al and euerie one of vs vnder vvritten protest , that after long and devv examination of our ovvne consciences in maters of true and false religion , ar novv throughly resolued in the trueth by the vvord and spirit of god. many faltes in fewe wordes , if men would long tyme , and duely examine them in their consciences before they approue , subscribe or sweare them to be true : for first euery man here answereth for his companion & fellow saying : vve al & euerie one of vs &c. where if any of the nōber hath spoken against the veritie or his conscience , al the rest ar lyers . nixt , what examination can be long in so weghtie a matter ? certainely not fourtie dayes , yea not fourtie yeares . when these thinges cometh in controuersie we may wel say without reprehension deliberandum est diu , quod statuendum est semel . thirdly , how can any man duely examine his conscience in matters of true and false religion , seing that his conscience or iudgement can not be a iust square of religion , because it surmounteth al humaine reason , & is comprehended onely by faith , not of our owne forgeing , but of goddes free gift ? or how can he duely iudge vpon true and false religion who neuer hath seene , heard , or reade the reasons of al parties ? for as a tēporal iudge , not without great reason , may be thought to iudge very rashly , if he pronunce his sentence & decreit before he heare bothe the parties , not withstāding the matter be of smal importance and value , and that he haue iudged according to the right , because he hath iudged before he knew the ground of the matter , and so if he hath done wel , it was more by happe then good reason . so the spiritual iudge may be esteemed rash and foolish , if in matters of religion and faith he decreit any thing , except ▪ al reasons be wel discussed . wherefor he who would duely examine his conscience in maters of tr●w and fals● religiō ( seing he take●h vpō him the charge & place of a iudge ) should with great discretiō , quyet spirit & humble mynd , without any passiō trye both the true & false , read al books touching that subiect , weighing the reason diligently : because the profit is great to them that goeth right , and the danger likewise to them who goeth wronge . now how the greater part of your sweares and subscribers can do or execute this charge truely i see not , yea can not gesse , seing that a good nomber of your selues , who ar ministers , and should be best armed at destitute bothe of bookes and good learning . certainly ye can not iustly aske of gentilmen , or others of meaner degree making profession of armes or housbandry , that which , ye your selues who do make profession of letters can not do : ye may easely iudge that gentilmen and commone people for lacke bothe of learning and bookes can not duely , and for lacke of tyme can not long and vvorthly examine their conscience in sic things their affaires ay hol●ing them occupied otherwise ; meikilles to sweare that they haue done that , which neither haue they done , nor could they do at any tyme. albeit there were no othere reason but this , yetafter my iudgement , it were most iust & sufficient for any man to refuse your subcription and swearing , and should moue you not to vrge men there to , except perhapes ye seeke only their vtter ruine and damnation , for doubtles they ar mensworne who sweareth that to be true ▪ which in their cōscience they knowe to be false , or ar not assured if it be true , of which nature ar theis thinges which ar conteined in your confession , seing they proceede of men who ar subiect to errour and false opinion , and so can gif no good assurance , where vpon men may establish their faith . which cannot be certaine and firme except it haue an infallible ground and fondament free frome all suspiciō of errour . i may with many weightie reasons proue that honestie could not stand with sic maners ▪ and shall bring them if it be needfull . 3 ▪ for the feconde head it is ●ar against the duetie of a true subiect towardes his prince and liege lord , to whom he is obliged from the first moment of his birth to his last breath , wherefor can not gif his band of māred , no● othe of fidelitie to any other but with exceptiō of his soueraigne , which notwithstanding ye desire of your subscribers : for speaking of the worde of god ( for so ye call your interpretations ) and doctrine of your reformed kirk , ye say thus , to the vvhich vve ioyne ourselues vvillingly in doctrine , faith , religion , discipline and vse of th holie sacraments as liuely mēbers of the same in christ our head , promising and svvearing , by the great name of the lord , that vve shall continue in the obedience of the doctrine and discipline of this kirk , and shall defend the same according to our vocation and povver all the dayes of our liues , vnder the paines conteined in the lavve , and danger bothe of body and soule , in the day of goddes fearfull iudgement . there be here an absolute othe and without any exception , made to you and your reformed kirk , not onely in matters of religion and doctrine , but also in gouerment and discipline . it is not my intent at this present to examine the manyfold absurdities of this new forme of othe , in passing i say onely , that it shal be very hard to any of your swearers to behaue him sel●e well with other protestant ki●kes , who are bothe in doctrine and discipline far different from you : shall he enter incontinent in desence of your reformation ? shall he trouble all states where he doeth come ? truely all men ha●e that opinion of your religion , that it bringeth euerie where seditions with it , as the most turbulent sect that euer yet was inuented in our contrey . ne longe exempla petantur betonio primi maduerunt sanguine muri . or shall he following the maxime of your faith call all in doubt not withstanding of his othe , ●ecause ye are but men and may erre , except ●e may gif some good and sure reason , why ●e onely say true , and all the rest of the world false , and that nothing can procede out of your mouth , but veritie : for your othe importeth no lesse with it . and certainely without that pretogatiue of assured veritie bound to your heads and tounges , to astrict men to your doctrine and discipline formed or reformed by you , neglecting the authoritie of your reformed kirk in generall , may seeme somewhat against reason , and very preiudiciable to the prince and common wealthe . for by this othe all must depend vpon you as vpon the soueraigne magistrat , the solemne othe & absolute promise beinge made in fauour of your doctrine & discipline , which ye haue in your hands and ministration . this may be easely seene by the othe made to the kinges maiestie , or rather against him , which ye sett downe in this forme . and because we perceaue that the quyetnes and stabilitie of our religion and kirk doeth depend vpon the safetie , and good behauiour of the kinges maieste as vpon a confortable instrument of goddes mercie graunted to this countrey sor the mainteining of his kirk and ministration of iustice among vs. vve protest and promise with our heartes vnder the same othe , handwrit , and paines , that we shall defend his persone and authoritie , vvith our geir , bodies , and liues , in the defence of christes euangell , libertie of our countrey ministration of iustice , and punishment of iniquitie , against all enemies vvithin this realme or vvithout , as vve desire our god to be a strong and mercifull defender to vs in the day of our death , and comming of our lord iesus christ to vvhome vvith the father and the holie spirit be all honour & glorie eternally ai●● lat vs consider the partes of this new othe . because ( say ye ) vve perceaue that the quyetnes and stabilitie of our religiō and kirk doeth depēd vpon the safetie and good behauiour of the kinges matie ? &c. well begoune truely ; that ye mistak not your selues , ye lay downe the cause why ye will do or at lest appeare to do some seruice to his maiestie , as long as ye perceaue thinges that please you , that is as long , as al thinges at donne according to your fantasie , ye wil be good and obedient subiects , or rather maisters , seing ye prescribe conditions to him who truely is your maister : and reasons why ye will bestow any thing vpon him . what if any reformed imaginations take you , or some extraordinarie zeall of your heauenly discipline trouble your braine , and make you perceaue according to your passion ( as drounken men doeth see two candels where there is but one ) any other thing in his maiestie ? what if ye find not that good behauiour ye looketh for ? must he dresse all his actions to your fantasies and good pleasure ? will ye be censours and comptrollers of his doings if he vse not your counsell and aduys● ? if your perceauing of thinges to you agreable be the ground & cause of your promise & protestation , how soone ye preceaue in your fantasie the contrarie , ye ought him nothing ( i meane according to your opinion ) sublata causa ●ollitur effectus if i serue you because ye nurish me , if ye cease to nurish me , i am no further obliged to serue you . what shall become here of your hearty promises and protestations when your sight shal be changed ? to what state shal the cōmen wealth be brought when your foolish affections shewe a rule to the kinges maiestie and honorable con●ell to gouerne his realme ? many thinges appeares to vs otherwise then they ar : and reasons being knowen , they ar found good , that seemed ill before : we say cōmonly there should no hyndman half work see . ye do many things in your house perhapes well & honestly , which were neither expediet nor decent to be deuulgated to euery man : as also ye haue some secret counsell touching your affaires , which ye should loosse , if your intention were publikly knowen . think also that king●s & princes according to their great rankes haue secrets , which should not nor can not be published without preiudice of bothe prince & state , the which can not be cōserued sometymes without the euident domage and hurt of some particulare men ( as by the losse of one member some tyme we preserue the rest of the body ) by which we should not esteeme & mesure the princes actions but by the publik vtilitie , which they procure better then we can see or vnderstand : because their authoritie and experience gifeth them the wisdome & knowledge which we can not haue caesaribus virtus contigit ante diem . there be certaine arcana imperij whereto we can not penetrate , & therefor lyke fooles oft tymes we do iudge rashly , & condemne thinges which we vnderstand not . wherefor we should do well not to enter in iudgement of so high matters . quam quisque nouit artem in ea se exerceat . but your extraordinarie calling maketh you maisters in all craftes , and your new discipline will not suffer you to haue so long patience . ye who enter in goddes cabinet when ye list , must know all things at the first instāt : nothing should be hid to you . ye haue receaued the spirite of discretion , nothing should be donne without your approbation . ye ar in the chaire of veritie , ye may speak what ye will ; iudge whom ye please , comptroll whome ye list : approue or improue as ye think good or ill : ye haue taken the power : ye haue receaued the othe : all men ar your subiects , so the prince is subiect to your perceauing , the principall rule of your new populaire tribuna● . but ye will say that my cōclusion followed not vpō your antecedēt . i wold be glad it were so & that i were deceaued in my opiniō , so willing i am to heare that there were no traittour in our countrey . but if we will consider the solemne othe passed before in fauour of your new reformatiō , to defend and obserue the doctrine and discipline thereof vnder so horrible a promise , or rather imprecations & execrations as we haue noted before , it followed very necessarily : for ye may extend ( as ye do when it pleased you ) the borders of your discipline , as far as it seemed good to you , and interpret your doctrine as ye thinke most expedient , and so perceaue what ye please , where ye shall acknowledge or not , his maiestie as ye shall think it most fit for your present place , or proper for the aduancement of your reformed kirk , to whome ye will haue all men obliged with so terrible othes without any exception or restriction . a very hard obligation and lawe , principallie being at the execution and will of tippertin witted young fellowes ( who commonly at rash and foolhard●e in all their doings ) or in the hands of ambitious and seditious men , who willingly do trouble all to come to their de●yre , to which by good meanes they can not easely atteine . your holie poets buchanans pamphelet , hath many notable maximes to thi● purpos , where vpō men may builde a world o● seditions and discords : but if your poetes authoritie ( whose aduise not the lesse ye haue so skilfully followed that ye may seeme ●ather maisters then disciples or prentises ) can be no preiudice to your pretended innocencie and good mynd , at lest your prophe●s words may serue for witnes of your vpright intentions . ye shall haue the argument of the second blast of the trompette written and sett out by him selfe 1558. at your holie citie of geneua foster mother of all seditious spitites and vnquyet heads . heare then your good apostle : ●ecause many are offended at the first blast of the trompette ( behold how this holie sainct is become penitente of his former offence ) in whiche i affirme that to promote a woman to beare rule or empire aboue any realme nation or citie is re●ugnant to nature , cont●mel●e to god , and a thing most contrariouse to his reuealed and approued ordinance : and because also , that some hath promised ( as i vnderstand ) a consutation of the same ● haue delayed the second blast , till suche tyme as their reasons appere , by the whiche i either may be reformed in opinion , or els shall haue further occasion more simplie and plainly to vtter my iudgement . yet in the meane tyme for discharge of my conscience ( behold the holinesse of this ex●raordinarie patriarche , who thinketh him selue greatly burdened in his conscience if he trouble not the whole state of the commō wealth ) and for auoyding suspition , whiche might be ingendred by reason of my silence , i could not cease ( ô the good nature of this man , who can not cease from ill doing , sed quis deus in fraudem ? ) to notifie these subsequent propositions whiche by gods grace i purpose to entreate in the second blast promised . 1. it is noth birth only nor propinquitie of blood that maketh a king lawfully to reigne aboue a people professing christe iesus and his eternall veritie ; but in his election must the ordinance , which god hath established in the election of inferiour iudges be obserued . autos epha . all princes shal be subiect to the peoples iudgement , and the people to the ministers . 2. no manifest idolater , nor notoriouse ●ransgressor of gods holie precepts ought to be promoted to any publike regiment , honour , or dignitie in any realme , prouince or citie , that hath subiected it self to christe iesus and to his blessed euangil . 3. neither can othe nor promisse bynd any s● people ( call you these your hearty protest●tions othes and promises ) to obey and main●●●● tyrannes ( so ye call all kinges that will not follow your fantasie ) against god and against 〈◊〉 trueth knovven . that is your new forged faith . 4. but if either ra●hly they haue promoted 〈◊〉 manifest vvicked persone , or yet ignorantly haue ch●sen suche a one , as after declareth him self vnvvorth● of regiment aboue the people of god ( and suche be a● idolaters and cruel persecutors ) moste iustly may th● same men depose and punishe him that vnaduysedl● before they did nominat appoint and electe . is no● this a moste notable argument to be handle● by a true subiect , and a man affectionat to the quyetnes of his natiue countrey ? yet goo● sire iohn knoxe being in his owne opinion a prophete could not haue wanted many texts of the scripture to proue the mater . according to this exemplere and paterne of ● chosen or rather imaginarie king , ye haue formed your othe : for neglecting birth and blood , ye will that the prince be made by election , at lest subiect to obserue the ordenance that god hath established to be obserued in inferiour iudges and magistrats , who may be deposed and punished if he passe the rules prescribed by you . for ye will the people be free from all obedience , promise and othe to haue no place if the prince go frome your religion , or as ye call it , refo●med kirk , the declaration where of depended vpon your discretion & wisdome seing ye ar made iudges aboue all men . ●owbeit good reason wold gif libertie to the prince as well to leaue you , as ye haue left the catholik kirk if ye hade not alreddie occupied the place to commād ouer all without appeall . i will not further insist in the examination of this blast of winde , seing it sauoureth so ill that no true & modest subiect can abyd it . i say only that your othe is as lyk this proiecte as euer dauther was lyk the mother , and lacketh but thinges which may very easely be vnderstood as we shall shew after . 4. but ye will say that i am ●alignus alien● voluntatis interpres a maliciouse interpreter of other mens myndes . what was your meaning , i pray you , when ye took your prince , emprisonated and at last chased hir out of hir owen realme and pursued to the death ? what was your meaning when during his maiesties minoritie ye caused strick money , marked with a sword and this inscription pr●●e , in me s● mereor ? what was your intent now of late yeares when ye beseeged the toulbrigh of edenburgh ? was it the blad● of rebelliō or sword of gedeor that was drawen out that day ? why did ye cry at that tyme god and the kirk , if it was not to withdraw the peopl● ▪ hartes and obedience from the kinges m●iestie to for ti●ie your plottes ? a course mo●● ▪ dangerouse where the prince & whole common wealthe were put in hazard vpon your ●olie reformed worde . if i be not deceaued , ye would haue signified by god and the kirk your doctrine and discipline , to which ye will haue all men subiect , with no further obedience to others then ye think expedient , and so no place for the kinges maiestie and his officers till it please you to employ them to execute your plottes , which onely charge ye would leaue to them , and that because ye ar not able of your selues to execute sundry thinges that ye haue inuēted ▪ but ye will say , reason wold that all thinges should be subiect to god : it is moste true : but ye ar no gods , yea not haue no charge nor command of god , as we shall shew here after and although ye hade , why should ye , vnder pretense of your new forged or reformed discipline , ●rouble the whole state to the vtter ruine of the common wealth . think ye that god and a king can not be in one realme to gether ? or that god is accoustumed to destroy kinges , where he cometh ? if your reformation proceded of god , we might very iustly so think ▪ seing it troubles all princes where it hath any credit . it was well sayd by an ancient scottish priest twelue hondred yeares since : non ●ripit mortalia , qui regna dat caelestia . but he was a priest of the romaine kirk , and not a brother of your reformation mother of your detestable paritie , grandmother of your present confusion , where vpon is builded your sinagoge : permitt me to say so seing ye force men to enter therein , because your calling hath no power nor strenght to inuite them . this can not stand with princes lawfull authoritie . heare iesus christe him self saying : date caesari , quae sunt caesaris , & quae dei , deo. certainely all mē of quyet spirite should esteeme them enemies bothe to god and good reason , who thinketh the one contrarie to the other . there were never yet any people that hade a religion without ciuil gouuerment : we haue seene in all common wealths these two ioyned together , but most perfectly where kinges haue ●ade the s●ueraigne power , because the vnitie is greater . ye wold perhapes gladly say here ( if ye hade the christian liber tie , that ye so earnestly desyre , that is licence to do as ye will ) that ye at all priests and kinges , and as ye haue cast out the priests of the kirk for their misbehauiour , so wold ye cast kinges out of their throanes & realmes for lyk cause . assay againe the play . assure your selfs that knauery will not ay haue good successe ▪ if i be not deceaued ye shall now find kinges more vigilāt , admonished by others mens exēples , then ye found the priests whom ye violently cast out , not by your vertue & strenght , but by their fault & negligence . god will cast the schourge in the fyre , when he shall think it good . 5. but to retourne againe to your words , as vpon a confortable instrument of goddes mercie , graunted to this countrey for the mainteining of his kirk and ministration of iustice among vs. with what reuerence obedience and modestie ye haue receaued that instrument , i leaue it to his maiesties memorie and your consciences : and if a few of you ministers gaue him not more paine and trouble then all the rest of the realme . if i see you ouer forgetfull i may well call some thinges to your memorie , although your daylie behauiour might very well release me of that labour . truely i think there be no subiects in europe more obliged to their prince then ye ar to his maiestie considering your de●●●tes : nor no prince who haue hade more rebelliouse subiects then he hath hade of some of you , so far as it did ly in your power . ye will do well in tymes comming to mend this , for feare ye be constrained to render compt of all together , giftes abused may iustly be called beak : your dayly railling against the present forme of policie in england sheweth well that your sicknes do increasse . vve protest and promise with our heartes ( good and friendly words truely ) vnder the same othe , handwritt , and paines ( quid dignum tanto foret hic promissor hiatu ? ) that we shall desend his persone and authoritie with our geir , bodies , and liues . parturiunt montes nascetur ridiculus mus . good sires will not your new euangell suffer you to do more for the kinges maiestie ? onely to desend his personne & authoritie ? i praise your wisdome to aduertise what ●e may looke for at your hāds : yet sure i am , that ye your selues wold not be content to haue a seruant in your house with so small seruice , as ye offer here to your soueraigne whome ye wold seeme to haue greatly obliged . but at the lest may his maiestie assure him self of your assistence in defence of his persone & authoritie ? no truely but in certaine cases , which ye lny downe to him by writt that he may craue no further , to witt , in defence of christes euangell ( i think as it is now reformedly preached and interpreted by you the discipline hauing it sull course ) libertie of our countrey ( euery ministe● being maister ) ministration of iustice ( in chasing away sic as will not acknowledge you in all affaires ) and punishment of iniquitie : principally if any man gainesay you . nothing at all for the prince ? nothing surely , if there cometh none of thes thinges in question the prince may stand alone for you , so far as i can see . onely when ye haue a do , he shal be assisted to do you seruice , otherwise he may do for him self , if he thinketh it good . but if he touch your euangell , yea with the vttermoste of his finger , ye will put bothe persone and authoritie in hazard , ye ar so mightely gouerned by the reformed spirite . i will not gesse further your myndes . which beareth witnes , who so well does . but ye will suffer me to say that the subiect not onely is obliged of duetie ciuil , but also in conscience before god to defend his princes persone without any exception because he is vnctus domini and one of the chief magistrates established by god him self . therefore we never did reade that the christians were blamed for defending of the emprours personnes , not withstanding that sundry of them were most cruell persecutors of the christian and catholik faith , and did seeke by all meanes to destroy the veritie . the christians refuseth onely to be executers of these detestable designes of the emprours : yea i think it shall never be found that the ancient godly fathers did lay to any christians charge as a cryme , that he hath garded and keapt the personne of iulian the apostata ▪ for that neuer was against god , nor reason ; seing they were obliged there to , as to a thing bothe honest and godly , which they could not neglect without a great blame . these onely were accused as cursed & misch●euouse men , who were instruments of his abominations . certainely the princes personne should be holie and inuiolable ; and we more carefull there of , then of our owne lines . lykwise we may say of his authoritie which cometh of god , and hath ay god for reuenger , if any man be so bold as to touch it irreuerently . ye mesure the princes persone and authoritie according to your fantasie , making them great or small , to be obserued or dispysed , as ye think proper to your purpose and passion . but ye will say that it is well donne to defend the princes personne & authoritie . that is very true . who so euer is owing a hondred crownes , doeth well to pay one crowne , but not inough except he pay the whole somme , so your duetie is not complete in these few heads . these fashions of othes a● inuented onely to exempt by litill and litill the people frome the due obedience oght to the prince ▪ for the people thinking that the othe is the onely sure rule of their due obligation toward , their soueraigne : and that they ar not further bound then the othe sheweth : if in their opinion any thing passe that boundes , they may think them sel es free and discharged from further obedience as not conteined in their othe . for when i haue donne that , where to i am obliged , it is in my hād if i will do any further : if i do more , i merite thankes ; if not , i merite no reprehension , nor blame , much lesse punition . ye will not be offended , if i say some what yet of your othe , which hath beene formed either with a great malice or extreme simplicitie ( which of these two be most proper for your sect i leaue the iudgement to others ) which will be more cleerely seene if we shew the true forme of othe which should be geuen to the soueraigne prince . the subiects of emprour or king being as va●●●les ( which we call cōmonly lieges ) should make to their prince the othe simplie and without any condition , yea so farre that swearing fidelitie against al men they should not except them selues . and therefore the othe of fidelitie which the lawyers call sacramentum fidelitatis should be made without any condition or restriction : for if any sic thing be put in the forme of othe deceitfully , or craftelie couuert with words , where by the subiects may with draw them selfs from the fidelitie towards their prince or attempt what so euer thing against him , vnder what so euer pretext , they should be accompted as rebelles , lacking reithe● occasion , then an euill mynd . and for that same cause it is not law fall to put the reason in the othe , that he , who sweareth , may haue no cloake nor excuse to break his othe : e●t enim forme fidelitatis actus legitimus conditionem non recipiens . when the othe of fidelitie is made to him who is onely lands lord and not soueraigne , the vassall puteth no condition although he put an exception of the emprour or king , as may be seene in this forme . ego titius iuro super haec sancta e●angelia , quod ab hac hora in antea vsque ad vltimum diem vitae meae , ero fidelis tibi ca●o domino contra omnem hominem , excepto imperatore vel rege . but the forme of fidelitie and othe made to ●he emprour or king , or any other soue●aigne prince , should be sett downe in most ●imple plaine and cleere words , without any ●eceit fraud or guyll . for as the kinges em●ire is free and absolute , subiect to no other , ● the othe of the subiects should be ●ltoge●er simple and without any restriction . i ●ay all good and true subiects , not onely for their duetie , but also for their conscienc● cause , compare this with our new reformed or reither deformed forme of othe , and consider if it rasted not of rebellion and conspiracie against the law●ull prince , and if this be not a beginning and foundament to bring in the swisers common wealth where the soueraigne magistrate at the yeares end is answearable to the people , by whome he is chosen . doubtles these craftesmen haue had before their eies bruti vindicias , buchanans precepts , knoxes blasts of the trompette of sedition , goodmans discours how superior powers ought to be obeyed of their subiects ▪ knoxe histories of treasons &c. or els the king of poles othe , si sacramentum violauer● nullam nobis regni incolae obedientiam praestar● debebunt . the poloniens may desyre of their future prince , what othe they please seing he is at their election and choise . but to prescribe to your selues , how and what ye will sweare to your prince , to whome ye , your fathers and posteritie ar allreddie obliged whether ye will or not , i know not how ye can be excused except ye ministers esteeme your selues in the same rank with the ancien● arrogant aragoniens , who in reception o● their king were wount to say in this maner nos , qui valemos tanto comme vos , y podem● m●s que vos , vos elegimos re , con estas & estas conditiones intra vos y nos , vn que manda mas , que vos . we , who ar as good as ye , and may more then ye , choose you our king , with sic and sic conditiones betwixt you and vs that one may commande more then ye ▪ wold ye not think your selues braue men , if ye might truely vse ●ic speech to his maiestie . but ye do meikill ●orse , seing in eff●ct ye gif him no thing but assistence to do you seruice , without any further honour or profit . a great seruant truely , if ye were wo●●hie m●isters . certainly if the king were at your choise ( as god forbid he were ) ye could gif him no lesse then ye do here by your othe : yea what lesse can ye gif to your moderator of one day , then defend his persone and authoritie , as long as he is in charge , for ye do nothing therein , but mainteine your selues . the mu●iners in the warres offer no lesse to their new choisen head , not for his cause , but for their owne . i am assured that there is no people in the worlde so seditiouse or rebelle , but wold bestow more vpon their prince o● head whatso euer , then ye b●stow here vpon his maiestie : in promptu ratio est , his maiesties forces can not agree with your folies . but ye will say perhapes that the kinges maiestie doeth acknowledge him self to be made for the people and not the people for him . he speeketh lyk a noble wise and moste worthie prince acknowledging what he oweth to god , in whose place he is established , whose persone he doeth present , and in whose authoritie he doeth command . on the other part , why will ▪ ye not lyk true and good subiects acknowledge ▪ your duetie , towards him , to whome ye ar obliged , as to goddes lieutenant aboue you ? or ar all men obliged to you , and ye to no man ? it is lawfull to you to be more familiar with his maiestie , then he is with him self . more ouer ye ar not the wholl people being but onely the tribunes at your owen making , and albeit ye were , yet should ye not presume so farre of your selues , as all should be donne by you , and at your appetite . it is certaine that the head is made for the body ( as also the body for the head ) yet should not the body be maister and command aboue the head nor yet prescribe lawes or conditions to it , but should obey it in all thing without contradiction as being subiect and not superior . the physiciens do teach , and ( as i think ) not without good reason that the wholl strenght of the body , and all the functions thereof cometh of the head , where the senses at chiefly , & wittes ar onely . if we would credit you & your reformation , we should shortly see a deformed gouerment through all the world . i am assured that it wold be better dwelling among the antient cyclops , if there were any , then among you : and if ye be curiouse to know why , i shall mak you a description of your selues , where ye may see a part of your beauties with out a mirrour : ye haue bene so impudent and shamelesse , as to aske for your ●eformed kirk an absolute othe of all the kinges maiesties subiects , yea of him selfe ( whome in his tender age ye did ci●cumuent ) that he should defend your doctrine and discipline , that is , embrace your inuentions and execute your plottes , so that his maiestie and all his subiects of what so euer qualitie or condition . should onely be vestrae voluntatis imo tyrannidis ministri , to trouble and persecute all theis that will not obey you , albeit it were bothe against his maiesties honour and state . which i think his maiestie will suffer no longer to be donne , because of the danger that may eusue there vpon . for what can be more perniciouse within a realme , where obedience and modestie ar moste necessarie , then to suffer the subiects to be corrupted either by monopoles or periuries or damnable opinions tending to a new forme of gouerment and state ? or to permitt a ●orme of common wealth within an other , as a cotadaill or fortresse within a towne , to hold the prince and all his subiects bound s●aues to yow . a thing , i know not whether more dishonorable to the prince , or more dangerouse . i say onely that the mo●e his maiestie beareth with you the more ye at presumptiouse and the reddier to attempt some new interprise . ye contented your selues before to raill against the state and gouerment of scotland ; now , as if your iurisdiction were amplified with his maiesties empire , ye ar entred in england , all britaine is fallen to your lot : ye will comptroll all mens actions there , ye will assist your brethren of that nation , defend them , their doctrine and discipline according to your reformed ministeriall othe , for why should any man be so bolde as to touch in any wise your inheritance ? or medle with your affaires ? or command within your iurisdiction ? a surplice , a square cappe , or a bishoppe may serue you for a most iust reason to trouble all , so liuely is your faith finding idolatrie in any thing that mislyketh your humour . o tribus anticris caput ins●nabile . it were best his maiestie sent you to the vnfound lands , where there is no man yet , that ye might forme a common wealth at your owne fantasie without other mens griefe or trouble . certainely if ye were sent ouer sea fiue , or sixe yeares to seek your meate as others haue donne , ye wold perchance be more modest , and vnderstand how bontifull and patient his maiestie is suffering you so long to reigne and raill without ryme or reason : coge●is aliquando per vestrum scelus iracunda louem sumere sulmina . but ye the saincts of god , his elected people , assured inheritance , indued with only faith voide of all good workes , destitute of free will , and yet willfull in all your opinions , predestinated to the heauens how so euer emptie of honestie , and covered with vice , ye zealouse brethren , i say , ar aboue all kinges and princes , they at but your officers , executers of your good pleasiurs and will : otherwise to no purpo● in this world . to conclude this matter i will tell you the catholik opinion herein , which is this . as we ar wholly and without any exception obliged to god in matters of faith and conscience , so at we absolutly and without any exception or restriction obliged & bound to our prince with all fidelitie and obedience in temporall affaires , that is in matters nether repugnant to god nor good reason , how soeuer they be to our dommage and hurt in worldly thinges , or to out paines and against our repose . there is no reason , why the foote should refuse to trauaill ▪ when the head haue a doe , how hote that euer it be : wearinesse can serue for no excuse : at the nodde of the head , the rest of the membres should be reddie : at sic tymes excuses ar but disguised rebellions : the want of commodities maketh the way more difficill but not impossible . to the foote thes thinges may seeme very hard and iniust , because of the great paines and many incommodities it must suffer , oftentymes not knowing the reason why , except that it is a member subiect to the head , and therefor obliged to obey according to the office and due function of a member , as it shall please the head to command . wold ye that men should goe as iugling tumblers doe , their feete vp , and their head downe ? ye haue some reason so ●o desyre in maters of state ( although there be no reason , why it should be graunted to you ) seing by that meanes sundry of you myght hope for the highest place , as being in all degrees the very dregges of the people , yet being promoted without order or extraordinairely ( for all is one in your personnes ) ye at found worthie of the charge ye haue , ye become so perfect raillers : but how proper ye be to gouuerne kinges and realme ( which ye will to ●●pend vpon you in maters of greatest consequence ) i leaue the iudgement to others ; and principallie when it is question of your zealouse brethren , who ordinairely ar caried away rather by passion and opinion , th●n guided by disc●eti●n and wisdome : where vpon ar founded an infnite nomber of rash iudgements that they haue made vpon other mens actio●s . i think it not needfull that i specifie any ▪ the ex●mples being so frequent● and common . a n●w sorte of tyrannie me●kill to be lamented ▪ if we ●ere not oppressed with a mor● grieuouse , ●her by it is fre● to no mā to vse his naturall aire and inioye ▪ the sight of his friends and kinnesmen , except ●e sweare him ▪ self your slaue , foreswearing bothe god and prince for a reformed folie : ouer high a price truely ▪ and ouer great subiection , for the small reward that any mā can look for at your-hand . what so euer banishment were more to be desyred , then that dwelling at home : for accepting that condit●on , men incu●reth the danger of double treason , diuine and humaine , which being donne , they were vnworthie not onely to be esteemed his maiesti●s subiects , but to ●e suffered to liue vpon the earth , if that come of their proper consent and desyre . and what fidelitie , i pray you , can his maiestie look for of you , who requires of other men sic othes as cutt away all assurance of fidelitie towards the prince ? ye pre●erting your vaine opinions ( that i say nothing more displeasant ) to the whol antiquitie , yea to all ages passed and present , in maters of religion , and your iudgement to all magistrates of what so euer authoritie or experience in maters of state , and your interprises to peace and quyetnesse , ar good christians and true subiects , well at your case in honour and authori●ie , although the greatest part of you be the first honest men of your race , or rather the worst that euer was of your race , shewing the common say to be very true . asperius nihib est humili cum surgit in altum , ●et a beggar on horseback and he will ride ● gallop . but peiceable men , who haue not that turbulent presomptious spirite , because they prefer the authoritie of the vniuersall ki●k , and iudgement of the ancient pastours and ca●holik consent to their priuat and particula●e opinion , respecting the magistrates as gods officers and law●ull instruments , they at idolaters , papists , traitours to his maiestie enemies to the cōmon wealth , excōmunicat incōtinēt ▪ put to the horne ▪ their goods confiscated , them selues banished out of the countrey : what rank or qualitie that euer they be of , they ar not worthie to be faluted by the worst rascal fellow of your sessions although they be composed ordinairely of the very sinke of the people . but honest men must take patience , seing ye gif so litill reuerence to them , to w●ome ye ar more obliged 6. where i will no●e a thing very remarcable , that neither riches , good traict●ment , dignities , nor honours can mak you quyet and peaceable men ; neither iniuries , indignities , banishment , losse of goods nor freinds can moue the catholiks to leaue their duetie towards the prince : which i doubt not but his maiestie some day will consider when it shall please god to haue pitie of our mise●ies . abyding which tyme , i pray you all good and godly catholiks ( s●sfer me good sites to turne my speeche a litill to them ) to behaue your selues towards his maiestie with due obedience and modestie , se●king no pre●●xt no● excuse to withdraw your selues : suffering paciently persecutions if any be . mixe no worldly respectes with heauenly bl●slinges , god is highly offended when we mak● to our particulare passions a cloake of his name , his honour and our affaires ar not of lyk rank , they should not be mingled together ▪ if any harme cometh to you in his seruice , your reward wil be th● greater , soing ye haue ●r●uailled for his glorie , and haue stand stoutly to his ryght , vnder whose banner to die , is to triomphe for euer : feare no damnage ▪ not losse , ye haue a most sure promise of a honderdfold profit & the lyfe eternall . we should bestow our goodes w●llingly in his seruice who rccompenseth so liberally . the lesse of our priuat affections we midle here in , the better is outs , the more ample shal be our lords goodnes towards vs : because his glorie the more cleerly doeth shine , when it is allone . but when his veritie is blamed for our misbehauiour , what can we look for at his hands , but for a iust punition for abusing his authoritie and name ? it were very hard to suffer sundry thinges that occurre in thes spirituall wat●es , if our captaine were not inuincible , and we assured how long we stand with him . we lack no good examples bothe of head and membres . we can not be first in this batai●l where so many thowsands lossing the earth haue conquised the heauens ▪ there ar passed before vs infinite nomber of champions off all dignities ages and qualities , kinges , quyenes , nobles & meane men , learned and ignorant , men , wemen , ould men and babes , poore and riche , who haue borne armour vnder this standart , & after the losse of all worldly goods haue shead their bloode with ioy to their eternall blesse , because they had only goddes glorie before their eyes , which principally in this tyme so dangerous we should do , that our vice be not obiected to the catholik religion , as if our faul●es came of that which we professe , and not of ou● selues ; to which sorte of calumnies and craftie accusations , our aduersaries haue ost recourse , taking argumēts from ou● liues and behauiour , which they can not haue frome our religion . we should not mixe the religion with matters of state , they apperteine to diuerse magistrates ; god will haue vs here obedient to bothe , because they a● his lieutenants , established in his name and authoritie we should not serue our selues with the command of the one , to disobey the other in his charge . who so euer hender any of the two , can not serue him s●lfe with excuse of the other : we must follow bothe their commands according to their place & rank : they at ordained by god to keepe one another , and not to distroy each other . if standing to the true saith , to the defence of our soueraigne , we be persecuted either in lyf body or goods , after the bataill , we shal be restored to ou● owne , or to meikill better . he who receaueth a prophete in name of a prophete , shall receaue the reward of a prophete yea he who giueth a cuppe of cold water in the name of a disciple shall not loose his reward , what shall he receaue i pray you , who willinglie , w●en occasion se●ueth , gifeth his lyf to god in gods name to declaire his veritie or mainteine his iustice in defence of religion or his prince , so highly recommended to vs by god him selfe ? lat vs not infect this gift & oblation with our priuat plottes and passions , he who heard sainct paul in his weaknes , will graunt vs strenght to susteine all aduersities : he will say to vs also sufficiat vobis gratia mea : the more we loosse here , the more we shall winne in heauen . seing this patience sure i am that the kinges maiestie will not be so farre offend●d , when he shall vnderstand that thereis onely conscience that do stoppe you to condescend to many thinges , and no rebellion nor contempt of his lawes , or ordainances : for in that case ye prefer onely god to him , and that because your fi●st obligation moueth you thereto . byding in this resolution , the victorie shal be yours , and ye shall obteine , if not mans , at lest goddes fauour , otherwise ye may look to loosse bothe : surther we may hope that his maiestie being better informed of the matter , wil be more gra●ious to his true and humble subi●cts then to punish them by death , banishment or priuation of their goods in fauour of the ministers who byding at the ground●s of their doctrine can neither be good christians nor true subiects as we haue sha●● alreddie , and shall sh●w more euiden●ly here after if this be not thought sufficient . yet if our sinn●s be so great that god will haue vs punis●ed with all tigour and extremitie in this present lyf , lat vs receaue the same not onely with patience because we haue deserued meikill more , but also with gladnesse and thankes giuing as comming o● his hand , who will gif vs the strenght to beare it , seing that his quartell is mixed with our paines , lat vs crye for his helpe ▪ and succo●re who hath the heartes of princes in his hand , that he may dispense their actions to his glorie , to their and our saluation and publik peace and quietnesse . how that shal be donne , we must leaue it to his infinitie wisdome and prouidence hauing alwaies in our heartes and mouthes , thy will be donne in earth as it is in heauen . now to retourne to you againe ( good sites ) it is not onely very dangerouse , but also farre against the duetie of a good christian man to sweare according to your desyre , os reither command and force , to witt that they abhorre and detest all contrario●● religion and doctrine ( to your reformation ) but cheiflie all kynd of papistrie in generall and particulere heades ▪ because the most chief heads of the catholik apostolik and romane doctrine ( w●ich ye of your great humanitie and courtesie doe call papistrie at all occasions and propos ) a● conteined in the symbol of faith m●de by the apostles , if ye haue any thing to say there to ye may . but as to vs , as we beleef in the symbol that there is one god omnipotente fat●er , sonne , & holie ghost , w●o hath created , redeemed , & sanctified vs by his infinite goodnes & mercy ; so do we beleef that there is one holie catholik kirk , by whose mouth we ar instructed in all theis thinges , that we should beleef , or do ; because shee is the spouse and mysticall body of iesus christ , of whome as of hir head shee hath grace and power , and we command to obey . theis at the generall heades of that which ye call papistrie ( seing it pleased you so to terme it ) where vpon ar biulded all particuler heades professed by the same kirk , and all hi● children remaning in due obedience within hi● bosome . to detest and abhorre theis thinges , ye may easely iudge your selues ( if passiō commād not aboue your ●ittes ) how hard a thing it wil● be to ●any christian man , w●o hath christs spouse in good estimation and as it becometh him to haue hi● who is guided with so nobell a head : but ye will say that ye condemne not that which is good , but our errours : i answeare to you in one word , so farre as i can see ye haue as litell iudgement to discerne vpon an errour , as ye haue power to condemne it . but this doth require a more ample discours . moreouer to haue the catholik religion in greater horrour and detestation then te iewdaisme , turcisme , heresie , or at heisme i can not think that it cometh of a good and holie spirite ; but rather of him , who vnder the figure & shape of a black dogge gaue a purse with siluer to the forger of your confession . but i vnderstand well how the matter standed : he who hath fled a way for knauerie , had rather serue any man then retorne back to his owne maister . it is not my intent at this present to refu●e your negations of the faith : ye will gif occasions , as ye haue giuen matter to answear by the groundes of your owne doctrine and maximes of your chief ministers , which i graunt ye may deny , as ye haue donne many better thinges , by reason of your christian libertie , where by ye may ●udge and condemne whome and what ye please if it agree not with the scriptures interpreted by you , that is , with your opinion ▪ where to ar subiect all thinges , by vertue of the spirite which guideth you as supreme iudges without appealle , for otherwise thinges can not stand with your credit : ye hold as the chief foundament of your detestations and refusals , that the pape is the antichrist : which point no man of iudgement can passe with , meikilles to subscribe or sweare it to be true . sundry cunning and learned men hath most sufficiently confuted this blasphemous reuerie , so i may be excused if i enter no further in the matter , yet for other mens contentement , who haue not seene , or could not vnderstand these bookes , i will bring here some reasons why that can not be . and first the pape acknowledgeth not onely god to be aboue him , to whome all honour and glorie iustly doeth apperteine because he is maker and authour of all thinges ; but also he acknowledgeth the angels and sainctes ( although in different degree & maner , god for his owen causes and them for goddes cause ) who ar in heauen ; and for that cause prayet● to them as being gods in time and most deare friends to interced for him ; where as the antichrist if ye will gif credit to sainct paul , shall prefer him self to all thing that is called god , where no exception is made . secondly we reade of no pape who hath slaine either elias or eno●h , or any other excellent men indued with supernaturall giftes , principallie at ierusalem seing there hath beene there no pape thes many hondred yeares . further the papes successiuely haue raigned th●s s●xteine hondred yeares not witstanding of the great varietie and trouble of the ●yme . the an●ichrist should reigne onely three yeares and an half . moreouer there was never yet any pape receaued by ●he iewes for their true m●ssias , because the pape doeth teach that the true messias is alreddie come : the antichrist should be receaued , si alius venertt in nomine suo ●um recipietis . of contrarie there is no man they hate so meikill as they hate the pape , because he is the greatest obstacle thes 1600. yeares . ye being yet in lumbis in●isibilis ecclesiae . the euāgell should be receaued through all before the antichrist come : the euangell is not yet receaued through all : and if the pape be not yet come why preach ye against him ? the pape with all diligence and ●a●e hath keaped and yet do keape iuge saecrific●um the perpetuall sacrifice which onely is accep●able and pleasant to god : & therefore the antichrist will labour to tak it away : where in ye trauell as ye can . the pape mainteineth the religion of his forfathers , for he cond●mneth all thing as errour that is contrarie to the doctrine of the primitiue kirk and venerable an●iquitie ; because iesus christ being the veri●ie it self , the religion founded vpon him , and published by his deare spouse at his command , can neither be variable nor false . the antichrist shall mispryce the religiō of his fathers wherein ye imitat him perfectly well . the pape sitteth at rome and hath so donne thes many ages . the antichrist should sit at ierusalem . the pape adoreth with all humilitie and reuerence the trinitie , teacheth and commandeth all true christians to doo the same . the antichrist openeth his mouth with all sorte of blasphemie against the holie triniti● . the pape ●alleth him self seruu● seruorum dei , acknowledging that the honour he receaueth of men , is because of his office that he hath of god , and that he is institute pastour here in earth to serue the wholl flock of iesus christ out lord whose seruant he is and chief minister : and therefor before all mortall men in dignitie seing he representeth christ our soueraigne lord , yet subiect to serue all men , helpe and assist them because of his office and charge , certainely the lest of the realme is to be prefered to the greatest , how lōg he represented the kinges maiesties personne . the antic●rist shall call him self god. there hath beene two hundred and thirtie papes and more : there should be but one antichrist contrarie to christ in all thinges : for we speak here of the great antichrist . the religion professed by the pape hath dured ( with your owm prophetes confessions ) more thē twalf hundred year●s : the religiō or rather impietie of the antichrist should dure short space , as he him selfe . the antichrist should be an apostate & go out of the kirk of god , where by that his wickednes may be the greater being ioyned with rebelliō ▪ the pape remaineth yet still in the house of god. there hath beene great number of heresies & heretikes during theis 1600. yeares that we haue hade so many papes . but the antichrist should be the last of the heretiks , because all wickednesse should be compleit in him , all heretiks seruing to him as foreriders , where of simon magus was the first a detestable magicien and a traiterous apostate , who not withstanding hath found ouer many cōpanions to follow him . iesus christ should slay the antichrist with the spirite of his mouth , that is , as ye interprete it , with the preaching of the euangell , that hath he never donne to any pape , albeit ye haue imaginated to your selfs , that ye haue slaine the pape by your preachinges , o● rather taillinges , the pape never hath had one houres sicknes for all your crying ; assure your selues that his infirmities cometh of other causes . luther in spirite of prophicie as he thought made this most notable verse pestis eram viuus , moriens tu● mors ero papa : he knew very well the first part to be true , and therefore myght say it confidently , the last part was lyk the authour , false and vntrue , he being deade and his doctrine bothe , it being changed partly by him self during his lyf , partly by his disciples and followers after his deathe , where as the papes authoritie , because it is founded vpon god , doth remaine , & shall remaine till the worlds end . the antichrist should oppose him self to our lord in all thinges and abolish his name and honour so farre as he can : for so the name of antichrist doth signifie . the pape doeth the plaine contrarie . the antichrist should come after gog & magog : howbeit that the papes hath beene so many ages , yet know we not , what gog and magog ar , nor what place of the world they dwell in . the pape honoreth the sainctes as gods vndoubted friends and desyreth them to pray for him . where vpon maliciously ye preach to the people that we gif christs honour to the saincts & yet we acknowledge them as seruants onely , who hath credit to pray and not to command . the antichrist should haue in his name the number of 666. to find this number your brethren , further different frome you in doctrine and discipline then in place or habites , haue taken great paines tourning the papes names , but all in vaine , it could not be found the holie spirite hauing so prouided against your calumnies . many thousands ar saued in the catholik kirk , which ye call the papist kirk , for otherwise all your forfathers ar condemned , yea all the ancient fathers , martyres , and doctours of the kirk , seing that they haue acknowledged the pape for their superior , and chief vicare to iesus christ , and a great part of you were baptised by the membres of the antichrist , in whose kirk no man can be saued . the pape armeth him self & al men so far as he can for iesus christ , with reasons , scriptures , generall counceilles , authorities of fathers , exēples of martyres , consentement of the wholl catholik kirk of all ages . the antichrist shall arme him selfe and his followers with force and violence against iesus christ . the pape conserueth , and haue conserued at all tymes the scriptures : the antichrist if he do according to his name and profession , should destroy the scriptures . the pape hateth and condemneth all sort of rebellions and nouelties in religion : the antichrist should embrace them as most proper & conuenient instruments for his auancement of perdition . the pape came so quietly , and peaceablye ( yea according to your owen ●ellowes saying ) that ye can not yet goodly-tell , when , or how he first entred in the kirk , ye ar so troubled to tell well your new forged fable . the antichrist should come with sic trouble and mischief as neuer was since the beginning of the world , where in he shal be more lyk to you , then to the pape , seing we can well tell when ye came , and may yet shew ouer euident markes of your vnquiet intré . and to be short the antichrist should be filius perditioni● the sonne of perdition , chief instrument of satan , that is , so possessed and assisted with the deuill , that he shall do all thinges in the deuils power and for his cause , and shal be so perfect and accomplished ( if i should so say ) in all vice and iniquitie , that no man can equall him , meikilles to surpasse him , and principallie in pryde , as our maister and lord iesus christ did excell in all vertue , & chiefly in humilitie discite à me , quia mitis sum & hu●●lis corde . wherefor not without reason sundry learned men haue repported the seuen montains to the seuen deedly sinnes which shal be in the antechrist in most high degree that he may iustly answeare to his name , the pape can no wayes be thought so wicked : i call to witnes all sort of protestantes of what so euer nation , saction , or opinion who haue beene at rome before or since the iubile , and haue seene the pape who now sitteth clement the eight a man worthie of that name , if any of them may say in his conscience , that he is so wicked and desperate a mā , as the antichrist is described to be in the scriptures . sure i am that there is none of them so far drounkē in the ministeriall humour , that will say so , if he speak according to that he hath seene . it is so far from that the pape can be the antichrist that his most excellente maiestie a prince of rare iudgement and learning , doth acknowledge the pape to be a temporall prince , to whom he is obliged and to whome in all good offices he wil be correspondent . ●hat wordes may be said to your opinion who maketh our kinge to haue obligation from , and commerce with the antichrist ? i may say with your pardon and licence sessionall , that he is a better & more honest man , then any ministers that either is or euer was in scotland without exception of your chief pontifs first or last , iohn or robert. i am assured that he who knoweth the pape an● your ministers will say the same , principally if it were question of humilitie and humanitie : and if i be put to my proues , i hope easely to discharge my selfe litill to you● honours . if this be true as it is most certaine why should any man sweare the pape to be the antichrist , that is the most wicked and detestable man that euer was , is , or shal be , seing that there is none of your companie how godly brethren that euer ye be , but i● meikill worse , then he ? or if they sweare a thing so farre out of all reason and verit●e as thinking it true , why should they follow or acknowledge you for true and lawfull pastours sent by god to reforme the world , if ye be worse then the antichrist , who must be the most detestable and abominable instrument that euer satan hath employed ? if ye say that it is but simulation and hypocrisie in the p●pe to deceaue men , i answeare you , that if we graunt your foolish affirmation , ye must also graunt to vs that the deuill hath donne more good with the pape , & his hypocrisie , pretēded , or fained holinesse , then euer the holie spi●ite , which is in you , i say , could do by ●ou and your pietie and reformed godlinesse : your actions may beare witnes if i lie . o sanctas gentes quibus ha● ●●s●untur in ●ortis minima . whose best workes a● so litill worthe . certainely ye ar very greatly obliged to theis , who will not sweare a thing so preiudiciable to your honour and reputation , which necessarilie followed vpō your doctrine , if it were once admitted . truely i haue not so hard opinion of you : for notwitstanding i esteeme you in all degrees farre inferior to the pape : yet think i not that ye ar so low & abiect , or so wicked and abominable as the antichrist , meikilles to think you worse . acknowledge the obligation ye haue to them , who doing according to their consciences toward the pape , hath donne so meikill for your honour . but ye will say that ye ar not so wicked as the pape . i doubt not but ye will winne your cause , if it be referred to your saying or othe . if the boundes of this epistle wold suffer , or if it were my principall butte to traict that matter , i should mak a comparison betwix the pape and you , where i should mak you ashamed ( if ye haue any shame in your forhead ) of your selues , the merueillous differēce being seene . i maruell how a minister can look to his companions vnlaughen when he seeth the people beleef a thing so ridiculous . and in cōsciēce beleef ye that the antichrist shal be a litill hypocrite or simple heretik ? ●e shal be more furiouse then any that euer came to trouble the kirk . because ye cannot shew that the pape is come with force and violence , as our lord hath aduertised vs he shall come , ye wold mak the world beleeue that the antichrist should come to continue lyk a lamb . iesus christ sayeth the contrarie of him . it wil be an ill reformed faith to gif our lord the lie : how can ye think , that he who shal be instructed and fullie inspired wi●h the spirite of satan , will in any wise , ether follow or conter●ect our maister and lord iesus christ ? ye deceaue your selues and all others , who credits you if ye beleef so . the heretiks , who ar onely his foreruners hath entred in the kirk of god lyk woulfes and tigres , and ye your selues came with so great modestie and quietnes , that the earth did tremble and shake vnder your feete ( i know nōt if it was for gladenesse of your cōming ) so mightelye that the whole policie & publik buildings thr●ugh out all scotlād did fall downe as if it had beene a generall earth quake . verelie according to his nature and dignitie , he must be more violent and cruell then all the rest . is it possible that ye think the antichrist will vse onely persuations , faire words , & li●ill hen wyles , seing that ye vse all s●rt of violences and compulsions ? he wil be more cruell then ye in all respectes , more craftie and more mightie : he will bring with him all mischiefs that can be inuented , & for that cause god will shorten his tyme. think ye that that deuill ( if i ●hould so say ) wil be lyk clemē● the 8. are ye so ignorant or so foolish ? truely pape clement is so wicked , that it were better haue ten thowsand lyk him , then one lyk ●ny of you , and his death more to be sorrowed thē the death of a hundred thousand of you , howbeit ye haue a better opinion of your selfs . think not also that the modestie that is in the pape , cometh of any feare he hath of you or yours . ye slay him euery yeare with your tounges , but so softlie , that he perceaueth it no more , then ye did the first papes entring . how can ye beleeue that the pape or papes , ar , or can be the antichrist , seing they haue condemned all the heresies that hitherto hath risin against ether the diuinitie or humanitie of iesus christ ( as may be proued by your owen fellowes ) yea they haue condemned the errours risin now of late yeares amonge your selues , as the new heresies of gentilis , stancharus , blandrata , and other good disciples of caluin , against the holie trinitie , whose errour ye approue not although bred among you . how can it be that they shal be the antichrist , who so stoutly , so constantlie , with so great expenses and danger doeth defend the dignitie of iesus christ ? for they onely whome ye in your reformed language call the antichrist , hath holdin , approued , & yet doth defend & approue , all & wholl the generall councelles where christs honour , authoritie , and diuine maiestie haue beene lawfully defended and keeped : yet can ye not shew any sic thing donne by you , who calles your selues true christians and lawfull pastours . what shall we think of these antichristes , & of you zealous christians ? they keept the bible from corruption of heresies , when ye could not be found , yea when none of your reformed brethren could be seene , at what tyme your inuisibilitie excused you from sic charitable offices . it apperteneth to him onely whome ye call the antichrist to defend christs name , keepe the bible , distroy heresies , confute errours , conuert infideles , send to all partes to cō●ort the faithfull , to assure them , who ar in brangle , to reduce them , who ar gone astray , and that in europe , asie , and afrik . which is donne yet in the new found ils , where there is more christians now , then heretikes in all europe , yea a great deal more : o good & diligēt antichrist who onely hath watched & laboured in the viniard of our lord as it becometh a true & faithfull seruāt . and o ye wicked negligēt , sluggish & disloyall pastours who haue sleeped like as many endymious thes 1500. years past in some obscure caue , till the moune of false & foolish imaginations haue wakned you , to embrace againe the cloudes of errour in place of that heauenly iuno of veritie haue we not iust occasion to wish of god to haue in your place so good and godly an antichrist ? which if we hade in euery toune , we should not now haue beene in paine to refell your follies . we may bouldly say that this antichrist is meikill better reformed , then your kirk , and lesse to be feared , then your reformation . i doubt not but ye wold here willingly answeare , that ye contribu●e with no lesse good will for the diliuerance of geneua , which ye make the people beleeue is besieged by the duk of sauoye ( where i will remark a great folie in you to beleeue a thing so mani●estly false , & a malice in them , who haue abused so farre your simplicitie and rash crudelitie ) for their reformed faith . i wold also willingly know of you , why your reformed charitie extendeth it self onely to sic as haue rebelled against their lawfull prince reither then to them , who round about you ar in great need and distresse ? if ye did helpe your holie citie because of their necessi●ie , i wold think it well done , if ye could do well with out preiudice to your onely faith . but to mainteine their rebellion against their iust and lawfull prince , is but an open and euident argument of that which is secretly hid in your breastes as we haue said here before . i was almost here deliberat to shew that a great nomber of the qualities which should be in the antichrist may be easely found in you , as in his sorriders : but i will keep that to your answere , if perchance ye persist in your antichristian opinion . for then we shall see god willing , whither ye can better apply the markes to the pape , or we to you . 8. now to your excommunication , a thing truely meikill to be wished of many , and to be embraced of all men : for who should not desyre to be out of their followship , who ar ioyned together by periuries , treason , & errours ? honest true and faithfull men should seek by all meanes to deliuer them selues of sic companie if either willingly , rashlie , or by force they haue entred there in . yet lat vs see what power ye haue to excommunicate any man. onely true and lawfull pastours ( which ye can not be , lacking as ye do , the law●ull vocation ) haue power and authoritie to excommunicate : where vpon it followeth that ye haue no power nor authoritie at all . we haue brought manv reasons in our offer printed , why your calling can not be good , w●ich for the present we will not repeate , because your owen reformation will furnish vs good store of reasons to proue the same , which we will employ here because they ar your owen and that most foundamentall . ye will graunt me if i be not deceaued that the office and dignitie of a pastour is so great and excellent , that it properly conuiueth only to iesus christ , and is cōmunicated , to sic as it pleased him to call there to , either by ordinarie meanes , or extraordinatiely that is immediatly by him self . and for that cause no man should be so hardie or reither temerarie as to medle there with of him self , if he wold not incurre the cryme of lesmaiestie diuine , in taking the office of iesus christ out of his hand . for this cause luther , seing he could not well serue him self with the ordinarie vocation of the catholik kirk , where he was nurished and brought vp , took him to the extraordinarie , alledging he was sent immediatly by god to reforme the world frome this extraordinarie power g●fin to luther , ye haue receaued your ordinarie calling , which i must shew to be false with most euident reasons , to proue that ye haue no authoritie to excommunicate any man. luther was sent ( if we will credit him and you ) by god him self to teach the trueth , the which might serue vs for a sufficient warrand of his assured true vocation , that the true doctrine he broght with him , might force vs to acknowledge his power . i will for the present ( albeit against the veritie ) suppose all as true and good , because out of theis principels and groundes we shall easely prooue , that ye haue no lawfull vocation , and consequently at no true pastours , where vpon followeth the millitie of your pretended excommunication . luthers doctrine ( say ye ) was true , ergo his vocation was good , and he a lawfull pastour . i say on the other syde ( by the maxime of your owen doctrine ) if his doctrine w●s false his vocation was not good , nor yours receaued frome him , and consequently neither ●e , nor ye lawfull pastours : or if your doctrine be false , your vocation ( if ye hade any of him ) is loste and ye no pastours , becaus● the true doctrine onely ( as ye alledge ) is the sure proofe of true vocation . if luthers doctrine was true and of the holie spirit , doub●les yours is ●alse , seing ye teach doctrine not onely farre different frome his doctrine , but also in many heads plaine contrarie as may be easely shewen by bothe your writtinges heare , i pray you what one o● your lutherian breth●en sayeth h●nc●gitur inter omnes piè eruditos constat luth●rum non vertumni aut eceboli instar in veritate semel agnita & professa varillasse , sed in ●a per dei grat●am vsque ad extremum vitae halitam permansisse : caluinistas verò , in hoc & alijs articulis sibi nunquam constare ex zuinglij , martyris , bu●eri , philippi , victorin● , hemmingy , profugorum vvitebergentium & aliorum libris & actionibus docers & d●m●nstrari potest . and in the inscription of the same book he speaketh very plainely howye agree together and with the veritie . theologiae caluinistarum libri tres , in quibus ceu in tabella quadam , quasi ad oculum plusquam ex 223 ▪ sacramenta●iorum publicis scriptis , pagellis , verbis proprijs , & auth●orum ●onibus indicatis , demonstratur , eos de null● ferè doctrinae christianae articulo rectè sentire : addita simul verae sententiae ass●rtione , & contrariae opinionis refutatione : collecti opera & studio m. conrad● schluss●lburgij , dioeceseos rareburgensis , superintendentis & coniunctarum megapolensium ecclesiarum generalis inspectoris . in his cataloge of heretikes he cōpteth the caluinists , against whome he writteth the third book that he concludeth thus . epilog . de secta caluinistarū . cum igitur ex enumeratis nostrae doctrinae rationibus , & falsis sacramentariorum fundamentis conscientiam anxiā semper in dubio relinquentibus , luce meridiana clarius apparea● imp●os & blasphemos esse caluinistarum errores ; nos secundum dei verbum ( ye see how this mā alledgeth against you the word of god for his warrand ) augustanam confessionem veterem , scripta viri dei lutheri , librum concordi● atque apologiam eiusdem , à sacramentarijs ( he speaketh of your sect ) tanquam blasphemis hareticis nobis caueamus , & ipsorum opinionem impiam tanquam prasentissimum & noxium animae venenum toto pectore execremur . further ye may see what hunnius hath writtin not only against all the caluinists in generall , but also in particular against caluin in a book intituled caluinus iudai zans . in the other part it will not be difficill to you to know what zuinglius , caluin , beza , lauatherus and the rest of that band haue writtē against luther and lutherians , and with what dispyte and iniuries they treate one another , scires ● sanguine natos , which may euidently proue the diuersitie of their doctrine . if the one haue the trueth , necessarily the other can not haue it , seing they agree not : so if the one haue the true vocation the other can not haue it , they being of repugnant doctrine . 9. but ye will say that luther did onely beginne the holie reformation which then was so necessarie in the kirk , that god was moued to send him extraordinarily for that cause : yet hade he not the strength to performe it , as it was needfull ; which worke caluin with his followers , but principally ye , haue done by your reformatiō : changing all thinges , that no thing can be better , tourning af●irmations in to negations , faire buildings in to kellyards or corne land , good order in to confusion , charitie in to particular profit , obed●ēce in to rebelliō , superioritie in to a foli she paritie , assu●āce in to mistrust &c. because he & ye haue bene most fullie instructed with the holie spirite . if we receaue this for a good answeare , we must say that this hath bene dōne by a n●w cōmission that god ha●h gifin to caluin and you , farre different from the commission gifin to luther and his ●ollowers : for the lutherians according to this saying , hade only charge to beginne the matter , and ye to end it ; but beginning and ending should agree to gether , and not like aegri somnia or worse . they should agree i say , if they be of one spirite , except they come of that spirite , who neuer yet could agree with him selfe . the holie spirite who is the sp●●ite of vnion and concorde could not haue condemned by your mouth , which he hath approued by luthers or lutherians mouthes ▪ i doubt not but ye trust al that ye haue the holie spirite , yet the diuersitie of your opinions assure me the contrarie , seing that the spirit , who approueth and authoriseth the one and his doctrine , condemneth and dischargeth the others and their doctrin . if ye say that the errours hade takin so deepe roote that it was not possible to take them out of mens hartes in short space , and therefore we should not maruell if there be many ●hingis in luthers doctrine not agreable with the veritie . but , i pray you , hade it not beene more seemely and as easie to luther ( if he was sent by god , whose asistence he could not want in that case ) to haue told the veritie at the beginning as to haue preached new errours so detestable , as ye say , and so contrarie to godds worde and our saluation ? what spirite moued him so to doe ? if he ●ad winked at some or many of these poinctes that ye call errours , which he found in the kirk before him because of the inueterate opinion cōfi●med by long vse , there might be some apparent excuse in your answere , but to bring in errour for errour , or to put out one to take in two ( the people being so docill to ●eceaue what so euer impression at that tyme luther wold or cold haue giuen them ) or to confirme obstinatly an ancient errour is no worke of the holie spirite , who should haue guided your extraordinat●e prophete and new sent pastour . or was the holie spi●ite so weake in luthers mouth , that he could not teach him the veritie ? or luther so hard harted , ●hat he could not receaue , nor conceaue the veritie mekilles teach it to others ? or hade the holie spirite since that tyme found caluin a more proper instrument to instruct the world truely and plainely in all thinges ? then why was he a lying spirite in luthers mouth , seing it was o● him , ye haue your extraordinarie calling , which now is so ordinairie and established that no man may preach without it ? 10. i see not what can be answered here . or shal we tourne ba●ke againe to the first foundament of luthers extraordinarie vocation ? where of the marke was the true doctrine , which ye ar constrained to denye and disauow , if ye wold proue your owen good : for he condemneth you and your doctrine , and ye condemne him and his doctrine ; which if ye denye obruam vos aduersarum & ves●rarum partium voluminibus scriptisque contrarijs . what shal become here of your vocatiō ? for lack of true doctrine it wil be null , either in him , or you , or ( if ye say bothe true in your mutuall accusation ) in you both ? what shal become of your ministerie if this false thunder be shaken out of your hands ? ye will haue hard escapping out of this snare , wherein ye haue feltred your selues , fleing frome the catholik kirk . for if ye say that it is ynough that ye agree in the groundes and foundaments of faith and religion which ar necessarie altogether for mans saluation , and in these ye agree with luther and lutherians , & they with you . i wolde gladly vnderstand what ar these groundes and foundaments of faith and religion necessarie for mans saluation . is it to beleeue that there is but one god ? iesus christ to be god & gods sonne ? that our saluation cōsisted in godes mercy & other sic thinges as sayeth caluin ? or in the creed , lordes prayer , & ten commands as thinketh beza ? or shal they be in the inuocatiō of our lord iesus christ as teacheth du plessis ? or shal these foundaments be the negation and detestation of the catholik doctrine , or ( as ye call it ) papistrie according to your mēswearing of the true fai●h ? if ye wil hold you at your owen groūd , i say onely that a negatiue faith , is no faith properly , and so your negations wil neuer open the heauens to you , except that ye think that the iewes gentils turkes and heretikes o● all sects and at hei●ts may haue place as well there as ye , seing they can deny heads of religion professed by the catholiks with noth lesse assurance then ye , & a great part of the same with you . if ye will say any of the●s thinges which the others hade said i ask you wherefore came luther , seing theis thinges ( as ye can not denie● ) were beleeued in the catholik kirk before that euer luther blew the trompette of sedition or as ye wold call it , reformation , if that honour had not beene reserued to you ? if the puritie of theis pointes was requesit , why came luther , seing he teacheth not that puritie ? for that was reserued to you onely as we haue said often tymes . it were out of purpos to say that god hade sent him to bring in new errours and confirme ould vnder p●etext of some few that he hath taken away , where by an other might be sent . was it needfull that your caluin should as an other sainct iohn the baptist parare viam domini ? in the meane tyme i will conclude ( if there was so many errou●s in luthers doctrine ▪ that it was needfull to send another in his place to teach the trueth ) that his extraordinarie vocation was not good , or els yours , who at come vpon a false token to gif him the lie . but domini moderatores why shall we beleeue luther in some heads of religion as hauing commission of god and not in others , because ye say it ? according to your eu●ngell ye at all equall , not one greater thē an other : why shall we gif you more credit , then him ? or if we refuse to credit luther , why shall we not re●use to credit you also , that ye may remaine euer pares ? or why shall we beleeue your , when ye improue some thinges and approue others ? is it not needfull here to haue a new extraordinarie calling to iudge with discretion and to our saluation ? and if in any thing ye be gone wrong , should there not be another extraordinarie prophete to correct you as ye haue corrected others ? and seing that the true kirk ( according to your reformed opinion ) may erre , when sh●ll we haue lawfull pastours ? ye put the true doctrine the certaine mark of lawfull calling , yet it can not be hade , because euery man bringeth errour with him , and the kirk is vncertaine and subiect to errour and so we can not trust hir . and certainely as to luther , i credit you , when ye accuse him of false doctrine and his followers , because he him selfe doth acknowledge his nature to be so corrupted and defiled , that he can do no good at all . but that ye be not draw in frome your paritie , i gif also credit to luther and his followers when they accuse you of so many errours , and your patriarche caluin of so great wickednes , because he acknowledges him self of as good nature and inclination as luther , and therefor can not tell the veritie sincerely , as not being proper instruments for so precious a worke which wold be spilt , if they touch it . monsieur du plessis hath no better opinion of mans nature in generall , as may be seene in the third book of the eucharistie cap. 17. not far from the end , where he seemeth to say that the grace of god can not mak good , that cometh of vs , because that we mix in with goddes work some of our owen particular honour , glorie , profit , and so that there is no good which we can do well , nor no ill but we can do ouer well : for so he speaketh . notwithstāding we read not that any , who hath beene sent extraordinariely by god to preach the veritie , haue teached or proposed in godds name to be beleeued any false doctrine and it is to be supposed that god hauing sent luther , hath also sufficiently instructed him in all thinges he should say or do in that charge and office : for otherwise seing the thinges that we should beleeue at aboue all naturall reason and humaine iudgement , how shall we know , if he , who is sent by god , keep the direction which he hath receaued ? if he be conuict in one falshood , he losseth credit in all the rest , and there by disappointeth his maisters intent , who employeth him , further it is certaine that god of his in finite wisdome & power , either choshed or maked the instrumēt proper , that he will employ , and suffers not in theis great matters to go otherwise then he will & our saluation requireth . for it is impossible that man can be deceaued by god who is the veritie it self . but ye will say that his doctrine who is sent , should be examined with the word of god conteined in the scriptures : yea but he is come to interprete the scriptures to you and not to ●ece●ue any interpretation of you . his vocation gifeth him good assurance to speak . if ye wold trie his vocation by the scriptures , ye should haue good reason , but to trie his doctrine hauing admitted his calling i see no reason . 11. moreouer if it be lawfull to call in doubt any mans doctrine who is extraordinariely sent now in our dayes , why shall it not be lawfull to call in doubt the doctrine of all the●s , that euer were sent extraordinariely by god , principallie seing ye acknowledge not the authoritie of the kirk ? for being doubt some and incertane in the one , ye can not be assured in the others seing that it is that same god that sent them all , and for that same end ▪ so shall we haue the whole bible , i say not subiect to triall , but subiect to be reiected by euery presumptuous braine , as hath beene donne by sund●y in our dayes & besore . further seing we should receaue nothing of any extraordinarie pastour but that which we haue tryed with the scriptures , i wold be glade to know , what triall can be made by wemen and children or ignorantes ? for if triall should passe before , why should any man or woman ( how ignorant that euer they were ) reither then learned mē receaue any doctrine without triall ? or why force ye m●n to approue sweare and subscribe your negations before they haue well tried them to be true , or reither seing they find them false . but we will keep the rest of this dispute to the triall of your sessions presbiteries and assembles prouincials and generals , where in ger erall and particuler we shall , god willing , discusse this matter the best we can . now to your calling , which i say can not be good , whe●her luthers be good or ill . for if it be good who so euer ingyre him self to preach and teach in the kirk of god as being a lawfull pastour , not hauing power of luther , should be esteemed a priuat man and not a publik officer of gods house , a traitour and not a true man , a woolf and not a hited , ye and yours being without his mission and calling , as we haue alreddie shewin , i see not what ye can pretend for you , to haue donne as ye haue . which i proue once againe in this sort : he who is sent a pastour and doctour in the kirk of god , principally is sent to preach the doctrine , as he receaued it of the doctour who sent him : if he doeth otherwise , his commission or procuration conteining no sic thing as he hade donne , can not serue him : for who so euer cometh in the kirk with charge , cometh as procurer , and not as proprieter , wherefor he should do according to his procuration , ( because he hath onely the handling of other mens goods and good ) and not according to his fantasie , as if all were his owen . now if luther the first of this new extraordinarie calling sent you , it vvas to preach that same doctrine , which he preached & hath deliuered to the world before he sent you . if ye keep not that doctrine , his mission serueth you to no purp●s , because ye haue not donne the thing , wherefor ye were sent , it not your commission iustly called back and ye declared euill officers ? as when ye gif power or commission to any new young scholler to gouuerne a kirk , it is not without iniunctions that he shall teach that same doctrine , that ye teach and that he hath heard of you , and not a nother forged at his owen fantasie or inuented by an other . if he do contrarie to your command , wold ye not depose him as not doing according to the power receaued of you ? and therefore iustly to be disawowed , but so that he could not serue him self against you with your procuration hauing passed the boundes prescribed to him . now if ye haue receaued any power of luther or nor , i refer the matter to you , i say onely that ye haue preached and yet do preach another doctrine then he & his followers do preach . ergo ye ar priuat men and not publik officers or lawfull pastours in this new reformed kirk ▪ except perhapes by verrue of your reformation it be lawfull to rulle without reason , ye may call your selues pastours and sainctes of god ; ye will neuer persuade to men of iudgement that ye ar his sainctes as long as ye take vpon you , the charge of pastours without power or charge . think not but thi● merites a ●u●t excommunication ▪ and not a conterfaited folie lyk yours , medling our selues with things for aboue your state , being but priuat men , yea so meikill worse then priuat men , that your vsurpation maketh you giltie of cryme of lesmaiestie diuine . i● ye will not credit me , go to luther your first patriarche , and he will declare , w●at he thinke●h , seing he hath long since excommunicated you out of his new kirk because in place of his heauenly doctrine ( as he sayeth ) ye haue teached your doctrine which ye haue brought out of hell ( tak you to him if the words be some what sharpe ) to prison the wordle ; and for that cause in the very beginning he did excommunicat caluin & zuinglius whom he called sacramentaries and that most iustly according to their owen opinion : for they acknowledging him for that new beginning of their vocation and new reformed kirk , it behoued him to haue that power aboue them . so what doubt is but luther hauing power to send them , hath power also to call them back if they past the boundes of his commission ? i he hath called them back and broken the commission he gaue them before ( as in deed he hath donne what he could that is in imagination as he gaue them that power ) they at priuate men againe in the middes of their reformation , and ye also , destitute of all power and authoritie to excommunicat any man. by this although luther hath neuer called backe his power gifin to caluin , yet could it serue him for no warrand , seing that luther denyeth planely that euer he him self receaueth any charge to speake or write sundry thinges , which caluin and zuinglius haue spoken and written since that tyme : and therefor he calles them heretiks and sacramentaries as i haue said before . or if he receaued charge to preach thes thinges , why condemneth he other men , who preached them ? there were some excuse , if he did not all , but there is no excuse nor reason , why he should hinder other men hauing lawfull power of him self , to do that which he could not do , or to condemne them , who teacheth the veritie that being the chief and principall end of his ●xtraordinarie vocation . there is none of all ●he prophetee , euangelists , or other holie writters , who haue written althinges , which ●t hath pleased god to sh●w to the world . ●or so he hath though it good to distribute ●is giftes at sundry tyms , to sundry person●es , for sundry reasons , as he thought it most ●xpedient for his glorie and our saluation . ●ut there is none of them all who either gaine sayeth or condemneth the others ▪ meikilles stoppeth them to say or write any thing that they haue in charge to declare and publish to the world ▪ here tourne you to what syde ye will either luther shal be a false prophete or caluin an apostate , & his vocation null and yours also . 12. i mak no doubt but ye will reither forsak luther , howbeit first , then caluin your last patron . i may obiect here to you the honourable titels ( quo iure non disp●to ) that caluin gifeth to luther as to a true seruant of god , and not as to a false prophete , which were sufficient to close your mouthes if they could be closed . but i will passe this as if it were not , and speak of caluin and you , because ye may say that caluin him self was sent extraordinariely to performe that excellent worke , in vaine and falsely attempted by luther , i will well by supposition , prouiding that ye reformed brethren will stand there to , and suffer me to examine the matter a litill : for we shall see , if ye can fight better vnder this new captaine . caluin or any oth●r ye will , was sent ( i suppose this now , in case ye will not stand by luther & tak your ordinarie calling of him ) extraordinariely by god him self to teach the veritie , and ministrate the sacraments according to the reformation ●e was to make : if he did not his duetie in this most excellent and necessarie charge , ye should esteeme him ▪ as he is , a false prophete , who being commanded by god and assisted by the holie spirite ( for sure i am in your opinion he lacketh not that ioyned to his charge ) yet wold not declare the veritie truely & plainely without admixting some lyes of his owne by the deuils suggestion , where by the world migh● be of new poysoned with false doctrine vnder colour of goddes soueraigne name . if this be true he merites more thē to be slaine in the way by a lyon for trāsgressing of the lords command , not in simple eating and drinking , being forbidden to eat or drink , as did the ancient prophete , but for teaching of false doctrine far by his cōmission , which was to shew the veritie . if he did his duetie ●n all thinges , where from cometh it , that ●undry of your brethren in france & other ●laces , yea your excellent apostle-verelian ●reat pontif of geneua m. theodore beze ●is owen good disciple , dissentes from him ● many heads , and as i think , ye also disa●ow him not in few pointes . certainely i ●aue not to this day found one who appro●eth him in all thinges . for when any of ●ours ar vrged with caluins authoritie , y● answere that ye acknowledge not caluin , but so farre as he agreeth with the scriptures , where ye find that he agreeth with the scriptures , ye will receaue him : what lesse can ye gif to plato , aristotle , cicero and seneca , or any other profane writter ? will ye reiect them although ye find them agree with the word of god ? i think not . truely caluin is meikill obliged to you , if ye graūt him that , which ye can not refuse to an ould wyf . is this the reuerence ye beare to him for his extraordinarie calling ? ar thes the thankes ye gif him for the vocation and pow●r that ye haue receaued of him ? shall not the spirite that spak in him haue more credit , then any of you ? was he sent with that condition that he should haue no credit , till ye found in the bible that it was true he sayed . truely if i be not far deceaued , it wil be very easie to mak you beleeue any thing ye please and otherwise impossible , if the iudgement be re●erred to you poore caluin ( so far as i vnderstand by your answers ) receaued not the spirite in the best sort . he receaued onely the spirite to tell you many thinges in forme of proposition to your holie assemblies , and ye receaued of discretion and wisdome , to iudge what was good an● what was ill . ye haue gotten a more mighti● inspiration then your chief prophet● . i am glade for your cause . we can not faille to go well hauing gottin you for supreme iudge to trie all thinges , but , as i think , euery one in his owin parish ; for euer the further we go frome vnitie , the nomber is the greater , and papes ar multiplied in your persones . i loue your wittes to follow cesar , reither first in a village , then second in rome , yet good sires , seing ye ar sett vpon that high throne lyk to as many salomons , that euery one of you & iuris nodos & legum aenigmata soluit , be not offended , if i ask some thinges at you , seing there rested me yet some litill doubtes ▪ i ask whe●her caluin was sent extraordinariely to teach you the veritie , or be to teached & examined by you ? if he was sent to teach you , ye should admitt him without any further triall & tak the conference with the scriptures to confirme and strengthen his sayinges , & not to confute thē : for so did the first christiās read the places of the prophetes cited by the apostles . if he was sent to be teached & examined by you , why came he extraordinariely ? to what purpos was so great honour , & afterward to be subiect to you ? but this for an other tyme ; lat vs cōsider once againe the first . if caluin was sent extraordinariely vz. to teach you , he may say with sainct paul : ego enim accepi à domino , quod & tradidi vobis : there is no other witnes here but god and he . if ye of your reformed modestie will giue them bothe , or any one of them the lie , i can not mend it , seing , it is ye , who hath gotten the charge to reforme the world , and so this may be accompted as a reformed lie , with the which no man should be formalized : yet with licence i may vrge caluins pretended right . if he spak & writte according to the direction that he receaued of god how so euer thes thinges seemes strange to you , yet should ye admitte them & think , that they ar according to the scriptures : because god is never contrarie to him self , he being but one in diuerse mouthes , & not diuerse in one mouth . how can it be possible that ye can better know , what charge caluin receaued of god , then he him self , who was ( as he and ye pretend ) employed ? we receaue without any contradiction or gainesaying the writtes of the prophetes and euangelists with all the rest of the holie bible , because thes writters were sent & assisted by god. if there seemeth any diuersitie , we accuse our weacknes , & not the scriptures of contradiction or falshood : for no sic thing can be in goddes work . so if caluin , or any other , was sent immediatly by god , ye must receaue all his doctrine , except ye shew either that he hath beene ill instructed & that it was spiritus mendax in ore eius : or that he hath dōne besides his cōmission , of which neither can be true if god was the authour . it will serue you for nothing to say , that he was but a man & might erre . because all the prophetes and apostles were but men and might erre . yet the assistance of the holie spirite suffered them not to erre in there commission , & therefor we receaue their sayinge● as goddes owen fayinges , because he was the ●uthour , & they onely the instrument . why receaue ye not caluin in this maner ? or shew vs that god hade sent any man to deceaue vs falsis vera im●isce●s . i think ye will find no sic sinōs sent extraordinariely by god , or if there be any , lett vs heare their names . if caluin was sent , as ye pretēd , ye should thinke that god hath instructed him well , & hath giuen him good and sufficient directions ( for else the fault shal be goddes & not his ) and suffered him not to go therefro : otherwise it hath beene a great vanitie to haue sent him . ye will perhapes replie that god in all ages had raised vp godly fathers & learned men to oppose them solues to errours and abuses beginning to enter in the kirk , as s. athanase , s. basile , s. augustin , s. b●rnard & othe●s in great nomber , whose writinges notwithstāding ar not altogether so cleene but something may be tried & corrected . i answere there be great differēce betwixt them & caluin or any other to whome the reformation ●ath beene extraordinariely committed . for although these godly and learned fathers were sent by god , yet were they not sent extraordinariely ▪ but by the ordinarie way : for they receaued their vocation and power of the catholik kirk in whose bosome they were brought vp and ●eached : the doctrine which they had receaued of the kirk , they deliuered to the members of the kirk , where in they remained still as obedient children , submitting all their works and writtinges to hir iudgement , condemning as schismatiks or heretiks , all those who left hir , employing their wholl trauell and writtinges to defend and mainteine hir against all satans insultes , never making any sect a part , never alledging any particuler commission to reforme others , nor yet to bring any new thing . caluin to the contraire left the kirk where he was conceaued and teached an other doctrine , then he hath learned of his mother christs spouse , whome he shamefully foresook , refusing in any wise to acknowledge hir or hir iudgement ▪ 〈◊〉 him self to them , whome he condem●●th in mynd and writting , oppugning and ●u●sprysing hir , who concea●ed him , making a band a part , because of the pretended commission he had receaued to reforme all these thinges merited a good warrand to be beleeued , seing they conteine so many strange maximes aboue or contrarie to all good reason , which can not be found in the foresade godly and learned fathers who were sent before . and therefore their example maketh nothing for caluin and his doinges or errours . ye will say for your and his defence , that they at but litle thinges where in ye dissent frome him . i know that neither he , nor ye can do a great fault , ye ar all goddes owen mignons ▪ how soone that the lord heareth , tha● it is y●e , who hath committed any thing , it is incontinent excused , because of your strōge faith , which changes ●nauery in good seruice . but i pray you how shall i know , if his faultes be great or small ▪ seing that ye will receaue no thing at all of his doctrine , till ye haue had it vpon th● touchstone of your iudgement ? and so for their litill thinges , as ye call them , ye call all in doubt , at lest with other men ▪ who perchance may think meikill , that ye think litill . and here vpon ( good sires pardon me , if i be so bold ) i gi● you no more credit then ye gif caluin ? for by your owen rule , i must ●rye bothe his saying and your iudgement , before that i receaue any thing , yea i will re●●aue , nether because he sayeth it , nor because ye approue it ( for that were to do w●ong to the spirite and christian libertie ) but ●●ca●se i think that i haue ●ound it so in ●h●●ible . for if i find it not there i will condemne and detest it as a plaine heresie , 〈◊〉 that where i● ye agree no● with caluin , but all the rest , and this ( as i haue said ) according to your owen rule and pretended c●●istian libertie , where by ●uery man is i●●g● in all thinges within the reformed kirk . further it may seeme by the forsaid answer that ye think a man can not receaue a de●dly wound ; except he be ( as they say ) 〈◊〉 to the teeth . certainely the largenesse of the wound oft●ntymes m●keth no● the danger , but the place and part that is wounded . a man may be strooken through the body , and y●t liue ; a pri●k with a pi●n● in the hea●t or harnes myght bring certain● death , which should not be mesured by the greatnes of the wound , but by the lo●●e of the man : ye ar not ignorant how litill difference was betwix the cat●●ol●kes and the a●rians if we will look to the lett●rs . but to reto●●ne to your apostle he was sent to shew vs the true way , yet hath he ledde vs by the way and deceaued vs ▪ how litill as euer the mater be ▪ his part is not good ▪ certainely i can not esteeme your patriarche ( be it luther , caluin , z●ingli●s ▪ knoxe , willox , me●●en , he●io●e , craig or what so euer other ye will for all is one in thes mater ) a true prophete , seing ye your selfes esteeme him a liar . for a litill leasing ▪ principallie in matters of religion , maketh no lesse a lier then a great leasing , onely the greater it be , he is the mo●e detestable who maketh it ▪ ye will perchance here reply to me ▪ and say that god suffered him to fall in some thing ●● where by bothe he and we might knew that he was but a man. i answer first that it was not ●eed●u●l because no 〈◊〉 could haue taken him for a god , although he ●ade said all true ▪ for we beleeue not that the apostles & prophetes ar gods ▪ albeit we be surely persuaded that all is true that they haue said , 〈◊〉 lest that they haue left vs by writt . next there was no sic superna●urall thing in him as might bring ●s in that errour , last of all it hath beene more prope●●or vs that he had said althinges 〈◊〉 wit●●●● any suspicion of falshood ▪ where by we might assuredly haue knowen that god had sent him and spoken in him : and that for his cause , who sent him , we should receaue him as an extraor●inarie pastour come to reforme the world . it was not needfull to hazard our saluatiō to proue him a man , but we needed many good arguments to proue , that god had sent him , and principallie an argument taken frome the veritie ▪ as to him self i find him extreme proude in all his writtinges , yet think i no● that he esteemed him selfe a god , and sure i am he died not with that opinion , i say no further . ye will perchance aske of me here , if i wold conclude that ye ar also false prophetes and liers , if ye teach any false doctrine , as doubtles ye do ? no truely , although in some sense , i might most iustly so conclude : for ●here is great difference now betwix you , as ye professe your selues to be but ordinatie pastours ( if perchance ye content your selfes with so humble and simple a stile ) and caluin o● any other , whome ye acknowledge to b● sent ext●●ordinariely by god him self : fo● howbeit your power ( if ye haue any ▪ i vnderstand ) be diuine , as comming of god , ye● your iudgement is but humaine ▪ so that it i● no meruaill if ye go sometymes wronge i● high maters which should be called re●he an e●●ou● , then a lie , because ye w●r● dec●●ue● in your opinion as men . for this cause the ordinarie pastour is obliged ▪ to follow the footstopes of his forfathers ▪ & make no new way to him self , nor any thing that seemed to incline to noueltie : because humano iudgement should not be bold in diuine matters : for i● ye open the doore that euery man may iudge as he list , there can be no assurance in religion , but dayly change , as spirites of men be diuerse bothe frome them self●s and others . but caluin ( or any other ye will ) being sent by god him self , came not here to tell vs his opinion as a man , ●ut to declare gods mynd and will as an instrument chosen extraordina●iely for that effect . so that if he haue failled , it can not b● called human a mentis error , but a per●iciouse lie against the holie spirite , who hathe geuen him expresse charge to speak otherwise then he spak . for he lieth , who in his maisters name sayeth thinges which his maister never had said ; omnis enim debet sine ●a●o nucius ●sse . the poetes haue fained the messengers of their fabulous goddes , more discreit , then ye acknowledge the messengers of th● true god ; for ye shall not lightly find any one worde changed in m●rcuri●s commissions , he is so religious in doing his charge . the same may be said of princes embassadors in theis dayes . i think it should meikill lesse be permitred to any man to goe from the commission gifin to him by god , either in eiking or pairing , what shall i say to speek to contrarie ? now nothwithstanding all this seing ye find errours in your apostle , where by ye think not your selfes obliged to follow him , but with this caueat , if he agree with the written worde , ye gif the world● plainely to vnderstand that ye approue not his extraordinarie vocation ▪ but receaues him as another man of the common so●t , who may ●eceaue many good and true instructions of your spit●te ▪ which is the true square and rule of all other spirites , where vpon ● conclude that ye haue no calling of his lying spir●te ( pardon me if i say so seing i say it after you ) who could haue no si● power ▪ and for that same reason your vocation is fallen in non entery , because ye haue bene so many yeares in violent possession , and can not as yet shew either yours or any of your forefathers re●oures : vpon theis ●ands ye haue builded your house , yea erected your kingdome of confusi on , and established your lawes of pa●rtie to haue all men subiect to your ministeriall imaginations tending to the ruine of all superior powers . the more high your interpri●es b● , th● 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 you● tre●son , the ●ust cause men ●at● ▪ not onely to disobey you ▪ but meikill more to gaine-stand you as ●sur●ers of christs iesus charge and office wit●out his commission or command , and troublers of the common wealth and seditiouse subiects , qui est is nat● in pernicie● principum 〈◊〉 bonorum omnium ▪ bragge of your excōmunication as ye please it is but an vaine imagination , a bugle to fra● babes ▪ or a scare crow ▪ ● found and a shew ▪ without ●ither danger or profite , and in a word i● is but a false ●honder where by no man can be made ●elp●lo nigrio●●●o . 13. i look here for your last refuge ye will pay 〈◊〉 with your ordinarie fashion of scoffing ▪ for some of you being asked where ye found the ki●k do● answer , in the 〈◊〉 midding of papis●rie ▪ truely a most meete and proper natiue so●le for so wor●●ie and noble a lady as your ki●k is ▪ i gesse your vocation was ●ound in the same royall palace . this an●wer as it is more neer to the purpos , so it contented 〈◊〉 meikill better ▪ for the apost●●● priests ▪ monkes ▪ and friers with other dissol●te ●●●d debouched men of our ki●k were the first groundston●● of your re●ormed f●●ie congregation : so if we hade neuer had aposta●●● , ye should neuer haue ●ad apostles ▪ luth●r was ● mo●k , c●l●i● a 〈◊〉 none , beza a priour , knoxe a priest . if ye desyre to be any further informed of this matter , our country may furnish you many true histories of the great and charitable pietie of your primitiue kirk whē it begane 40. yeares since . 14. now to the last head of our dispute , where as the matter is more cleare so shall we be more shorte . gising and not granting that ye hade good calling and were lawfull true pastours hauing power to bind and loose . i ask what iurisdiction ye can haue vpon them , who neuer were subiect to you ; neuer acknowledged nor could acknowledge you for lawfull pastours hauing at altymes made profession of the catholik religion which is so far different , yea contrarie to that which ye professe , and desyres them to embrace , how can ye vrge theis men to acknowledge you , or how can ye excommunicat and separate them frome you as rotten and spilt members frome the rest of your reformed body , they neuer being of your body . feare ye not that men laught at you and your folie , to dispose so rashely vpon thinges neuer yours except perchance by a reformed imagination , or dreame ? kinges and princes vses not to banish out of their dominions other princes subiects who neuer were within their boundes . true it is , that they may forbid any stranger to enter within their empires , and that for good and iust reasons , yea for their only pleasure if they will so , because the lands ar theirs , and so may receaue , or hold out any man as they list , or punish sic as wold without their licence enter there in . but to banish men that never were within their realmes , were a thing very ridiculouse , that i say not , foolish . and to constraine free men , or other princes subiects to gif them the othe of fidelitie and du● seruice were altogether against reason , principally neuer being with in their iurisdiction . lykwise i say to you , that ye can not iustly force thes men now to acknowledge you who neuer were yours ; ye may in deed forbid them to enter in to your kirk , or to assis● to your seruice , if ye haue any , or to your prayers , or to take any charge amongst you , seing that they ●r not of you● sto●● : but how ye can passe any further against them truely i see not , except ye wold say , that your power hath no other marches , then your will and fantasie . an ample empyre truely if it be so . ye will haue the ex●resse word of god for all thing●s that other ●en say . i pray you bring vs here some good ●nd euid●n●●e●● of the scripture which may serue you for bound & charter of your bordors● cite vs some sure place , by whose authoritie ye may proue that it is lawfull to banish men out of your kirk , who neuer were in it . think ye not but this meriteth two or three passages of the holie writt , befor ye passe to the execution there of . the iew●s did esteeme the gētils in rank of excommunicated men ; bnt neuer did excommunicat them : that is did hold them as profane men destitute of the grace and assistance of god , and out of his kirk seing that they professed not that same religion , which onely at that t●me was the true religion . but neuer did they curt them of their body as rotten members thereof , because they were not of their body , but reither a body a part distinguished frome them bothe in religio● and ceremonies , which onely the i●wes did declare , and could do no further , c●ptaines vses not , to discharge or b●ack out of their ●ands , souldiours who neuer were vnder their banners . christ iesus neuer gaue ●o any sic exēple or command nor yet , the apostles , y●● none of their successours after them ▪ where● find ye the iewe● or gentils excommunicated by the apostles or primi●iue ●irk ? i find ●ruell pors●●utiōs exercised ag●●nst the christians and their great patience with 〈◊〉 and ●eruent prayer made for their persecutors , i find not their execrations and curse● against them . ●e s●e the iewes yet among● the christians and vnconstrained to embrace the veritie ▪ o● ye● excommunicated , except by that generall excōmunication where by they ar all declared strangers in goddes house and profane personnes ▪ with whome notwithstanding we may h●● n●●peek ; trafik , and communicat ●iuille although that our kirk doores and prayer places be closed vp to them . they may haue action in law against any man who hath either offended them , or is owing them any thing ▪ iustice is not refused to them , because they , ar me● remaining with in the same commō wealth . now seing the●s branches were neuer your● how can ye 〈◊〉 them of your tree . k●mi su● alteri●● arbor●s . if ye could do that , ye might hardely va●●t your selues to haue donne a miracle , which hath beene so often craued at your hands for your extraordinaire vocation . 15. but ye will say tha● they ar in your pari●hes ▪ and therefore ye haue power vpon them as vpon the rest who ar within the same iurisdiction . i vnderstand well ▪ ye ar ●ands lo●de● , all is yours that g●owe● vpon ●he gro●●d . but good ●●●es ▪ ye should first shew that the ground is yours , and then dispose there vpon at your pleasour ▪ we shall neuer op●n our mouthes to gainesay you . the iurisdiction that ye pretend is spirituall , hitherto they haue neuer entred wi●h in your dominious ▪ why will ye now force them to land , because they ar driuen by storme of wind vpon your costes ? they ar ●orie that your limites ar so neer to them . the onely sight of your realme hath disgusted them exceedingly : suffer them to stay where they ar and they will enter no further . they content them with your good will. the turkes constraine no man to embrace their opinion , except he enter with in their temple : any man may be within the countrey without any compulsion . ye require more then the most cruell tyrannes ▪ if ye will credit them it shall not be needfull to banish them out of your territorie . they desyre not to enter . they haue chosen another free citie , where they like better to be burgessis , which they will lose , if they enter with you . vlysses was neuer more desyrous to be deliuered out of polyphemu● cauerne , or danger of si●enes , or charibdis then they to be exempt of your communion . it is but in vaine ye excommunicat them who neuer haue , nor yet desyre to communicat with you . ye do as they tell the ●able of the foxe and plummes , which he could not come by , nigra sun●●olo they ar black ( sayeth he ) i will haue none of them . ye ar very liberall , ye gif to others , which neither is yours nor can ye haue ▪ what extraordinarie reformed charitie is this in you to deliuer ouer to satan goddes creatures not being in your charge nor keeping , meikill lesse at your gift ? but good sires why ta● ye not the paines to shew that ye haue the true kirk , out of which there is no salu●tion ; and that ye ar lawfull pastours , to whome all true christiās ar obliged to obey as to christs vic●i●es and lieutenants ▪ this were the ordinarie and easie way , if ye wold follow it ; for this being once sufficiently ●hewen ; i doubt not but they wold shew them selues very docil and very easie to receaue all your instructions , because of your vndoubted authoritie and charge . ye might then very well exhorte them to enter witbin your spirituall iurisdiction , seing ye hade the lawfull power to receaue them , and to enroll them among the children of god , and heauenly citizens . if they wold not yet heare you , ye might according to christs command , shake the dust of your feete ▪ and leaue their blood vpō their owen heades except perchance ye wold patiently abyde their conuersion to god , seing that some ar called and do 〈◊〉 in the ●ords vinia●d ▪ in the morning , some at midday , some in the ●uening , and at last all ar new ●tded for their l●bours , ●o the which none ar constrained ▪ ye know that faith is a gift of god , it c●n not be found e●●ry where . spiritu● vb● vul● spir●t it de pended 〈◊〉 vpon our will , nor ●eurs to make men bel●●ue the veri●ie ▪ that appe●●in●d to god onely . vol●ntas ●ogino● p●●est●● 〈◊〉 is god onely ▪ who may change the hardnes of mens hea●●es . why will ye force men , seing we deny free will : if ye say as ye think why v●ge ye men as if they had it ▪ excuse me , if i propose sic thinges , seing i do it following your h●mour and strange opinions . i 〈◊〉 some exemple either of ▪ ou● maister ●esus christ o● of his apos●los ▪ where either 〈◊〉 or gentill euer was constrained to acknowledge the gospell , o● excommunicated ●f ●he wold non i will graunt to 〈◊〉 very freely ▪ that all men who will not acknowledge the true kirk● and lawfull pastour● a● with out the communion and pa●k● of iesu● christ ▪ but not ●u● out of th● communion of 〈◊〉 park of iesus christ : because as i haue said now often , they were ne●er within i● ▪ and therefore the apostles and ●h●ir 〈◊〉 did euer ciuilie cōuerse with the ●othe preaching and teaching the ve●iti● ( where by our for fathers were con●erted to god ) but neuer admitted them to be present at goddes s●r●ice till they hade left their errour & were instr●cted in the trueth , and so rece●ned in the bosome of the kirk a● true christians should be . if the apostles had de●a●red from● their companie all men , who wo●d not incontinent embrace their doct●ine , i think they ●hold not haue 〈◊〉 so m●ny as they haue donne . in their pa●ien●e they ouercame the world , wonn● the fa●ou● of their enemies , assured the faithfull , b●a●●gled the infidel●es seeing them die so co●●dgeously for the ve●i●ie that they preached , & at last left ou● for fathers peaceable in the kirk of god ? which certainely was a heauenly work donne by naturall inst●un●en●es indued with supernaturall graces and vertues , infused by the holie spirite in the hear●●s of ●●ue and law●ull pasto●●s to confound all worldly wi●dome and bring vs wi●h simplicitie and obedience to eternall blisse . in pl●ce of which godly modestie and meeknes ye employ your reformed force and violence shewing that ye had ●e●●her make , them ●e made martyres , where in by many degrees ye s●●pass● the cruell barb●●●● of the turkes , impati●t au● importune in all your actiōs , yet according to your discipline ( which is against all good discipline ) impellens quidquid sibi summa petenti obsis●it , g●udensque v●am ●ecisse ruina . — magnámque cade●● magnámque reuertens dat●stragem latè , sparsosque recoll●gi● ignes . 16. thus faire for them who all wai●e haue remamed catholikes , as to others who haue at any tyme yeelded to you being ●ither forced or deceiued by you , good reason requireth that they be sett at libertie as before . doubtles the law will declare all sic men as free frome all obligation to you , as they who neuer were yours , because of the violence and deceit ye haue vsed , principallie seing it is so fa●re against the honour of god , the kinges maiesties servi●e , and publik honestie , and yoú to be punished as publik transgressours of diuine and humaine lawes . if ye will haue men obliged to your doctrine and discipline , sett vp new play , procee● with honest lawfull and godly meanes without bothe fraud & force errour or treason take an ordinarie sure calling or proue wel your extraordinarie , and then , who hat● once acknowledged you , punish him ● your discretion and according to your lawes , if he reuolt frome you , but now as maters goeth , although i were a zealous brother yet as faithfull christian and true subiect , i wold be gladd to be excommunicated out of your companie , where treason and heresies ar confirmed with subscriptiōs and solemne oathes . 18. now to end with you , i will yet make you an offer , as i think very reasonable , which is this . seing ye wil haue no thing that cometh of the catholik apostolik and romaine kirk , as being infected with superstition and idolatrie ▪ nor acknowledge the pape , because ye esteeme him the antichrist , and therefor will haue no counceill gathered by him : do like good & vigilant pastours , assemble your selues by whose authoritie ye please , hold an vniuersall synode among your reformed brethren of all sortes through out the whole reformed world , without beginning and ending , that there appeere no superiorite ▪ make a round table , speek al at once ; dispute vpon the controuerted heads : agree among your selues and we shall agree with you . what can ye ask more of vs ? if no accorde can be hade among you , how can we agree with you ? consenting with any one companie , we shall haue all the rest for enemies , and shall not be assured if the partie , that we haue followed , will stand long at his owen opinion . or if ye think this offer of greater expenses then esperance , we will make you another , to agree with you & subscribe your con●ession of faith , if ye can shew that euer there was any empire , kingdome , canton , citie , toune , village or cothouse , yea any single man catholik or heretik , young or old , lerned or ignorant , professing your doctrine and gouuerned by your discipline before this last hondred yeares . if ye refuse this offers , iudge your selues , what the reformed flock may think of you . abyding your answere i will mak here an end and pray god to gif vs his eternall blesse , and to you ( where by ye may atteine to the same ) a faith that may stand with your duetie to god and prince , and with christian charitie . fare well . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a01221-e60 artis ig●arus . kno● . in his speech to parlament . in the sessions presbiteries synodes & generall coūsels . mat. 10 frere iohn crag fleeing out of italie frō the catholik● : being ( as he said ) in need he receaued a pourse frome ● black dogge , iudge y● of that viaticum . the●log c. lu●nist . l●b 2. sol . 135. b● za in epistol . th●olog . & de notis ecc●●siae . iust . lib. 4 . ●ap . 1. ● . 9. de notis eccl●siae . ye ar th● first that eu●r did propos● negatiō● for a faith . 3. book the kinges cap. 13. semp●● discente● & nunquam ad sciētiam veritatis perueniente● 2. ad timoth . ● . 7. a treatise of excommunication wherein 'tis fully, learnedly, and modestly demonstrated that there is no warrant ... for excommunicating any persons ... whilst they make an outward profession of the true christian faith / written originally in latine by ... thomas erastus ... about the year 1568. explicatio gravissimae quaestionis utrum excommunicatio. english erastus, thomas, 1524-1583. 1682 approx. 192 kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from 48 1-bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : 2008-09 (eebo-tcp phase 1). a38575 wing e3218 estc r20859 12404771 ocm 12404771 61349 this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons 0 1.0 universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase 1, no. a38575) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set 61349) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, 1641-1700 ; 276:2) a treatise of excommunication wherein 'tis fully, learnedly, and modestly demonstrated that there is no warrant ... for excommunicating any persons ... whilst they make an outward profession of the true christian faith / written originally in latine by ... thomas erastus ... about the year 1568. explicatio gravissimae quaestionis utrum excommunicatio. english erastus, thomas, 1524-1583. [13], 80 p. printed for l. curtis, london : 1682. translation of: explicatio gravissimæ quæstionis utrum excommunicatio. advertisement: p. [13]. reproduction of original in harvard university libraries. created by converting tcp files to tei p5 using tcp2tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between 1473 and 1700 available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the 25,363 texts created during phase 1 of the project have been released into the public domain as of 1 january 2015. anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. 5% (or 5 pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of 100 instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level 4 of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p5, characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng excommunication. 2006-11 tcp assigned for keying and markup 2006-11 aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images 2007-05 robyn anspach sampled and proofread 2007-05 robyn anspach text and markup reviewed and edited 2008-02 pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a treatise of excommunication : wherein 't is fully , learnedly , and modestly demonstrated , that there is no warrant , precept , or president , either in the old or new testament , for excommunicating any persons , or debarring them the sacraments , whilst they make an outward profession of the true christian faith. written originally in latine , by the famous and pious thomas erastvs doctor in physick , about the year 1568. brethren , ye have been called unto liberty ; onely use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh , but by love serve one another , gal. 5. v. 13. london : printed for l. curtis . 1682. to the pious reader , and such as is studious of truth , thomas erastvs a physician sends greeting . lest any , lighting upon this treatise , should wonder what motives or provocations made me busie my self in this controversie about excommunication , i shall as concisely as truly acquaint the world with the rise and occasion of it . 't is now much about sixteen years since some men have fallen into a kind of excommunicating frenzy ( under the specious title of ecclesiastical discipline , and as they contend , sacred in it self , and enjoyn'd the church by god ) and fain would they have the whole church tainted with the like ; that the manner of it ( they propose ) should be thus : that a select number of elders should sit in the name of the whole church , and judge who were fit and who unfit to be admitted to the lords supper . i could not but wonder to see them consulting of such matters , at such a time when we had neither fit persons to excommunicate , or to be excommunicated : for scarce a thirteenth part of the people understood and approved of the doctrine of the reformation which was then but blooming ; the residue were our profest enemies : so that no man , who had his wits about him , but must needs see that such a matter must unavoidably introduee dangerous divisions among us . and therefore i thought it not then so proper an enquiry how some might be shut out of the church , as how more might be brought in ; and that the best thing we could apply our selves to , would be the propagating saving truths . besides , they who were to be the supervisors , were not so much superior to the others , in age , experience , parts , judgment , virtue , or eminency , that they could manage so weighty a matter with that port and dignity that was requisite . since therefore i saw that their desires could not have the labour'd effects , without the churches ruine and subversion , i was ever and anon cautioning them , that they should weigh well what they did , and not rashly attempt what they might after too late repent . but though as yet i verily thought that excommunication had been a thing commanded in the scriptures , yet i did not find it commanded after that manner that they proposed : so that since christ seemed to me to have left us at large for the manner of it , i set my thoughts on work what might be the best way and course under our circumstances , and would be attended with the least distractions and inconveniencies ; which i did with the closer application and diligence , upon some reflections that i had , how fatal and turbulent to christianity this had formerly proved , and was still little better , as it was managed . whilst i was upon these thoughts , and look'd a little back upon what the antients had writ on this subject , i find it weaker in all points than i had before suspected ; so that i could not but begin to doubt of the very thing . my next resort was to the school-men , among whom i met with as little satisfaction . then came i to our modern writers , who no whit mended the matter ; nay , i observ'd that they did most manifestly differ among themselves in some things , which quicken'd my diligence in the enquiry . so i laid by these commentators a while , and betook my my self to the scripture ; in the perusal of which , i mark'd and noted , with all the exactness i could , what was discrepant from , and what agreeable unto , the commonly received opinion . and truly it was no ordinary assistance to me in this matter , to take a survey with my self of the state of the jewish church and government : for thus thought i with my self , god in the 4th chapter of deut. v. 6 , 7 , 8. bears witness to their laws , that there was no nation that had statutes and judgments so righteous , and that for their laws sake it should be said of them , surely this great nation is a wise and understanding people : therefore it seem'd necessary with me , that to have a church gloriously and wisely modell'd , it must make near approaches to the judaical form. but certain it is , that in this jewish church things were never so instituted by god , as that there should be distinct procedures in the punishing immoralities , one by the civil , and another by the ecclesiastical power : what hinders then , but that even now too , that that church which god hath blessed with a christian magistracy , may sit down contented under one form of government ? i then communicated my thoughts to learned , good , and pious men , so far , as that i press'd them not to consider the matter slightly and cursorily : for i could not but deem it very unnecessary that there should be two heads of the visible church , where the body is but one ; and that their mandates , injunctions , decretals , and all the acts of a governing authority , should be distinct ( as hitherto they have been ) so that the government of one should not be subject to the inspection or controul of the other , but both their jurisdictions be chief in their kinds : for such a church-senate or convocation of select elders would they in truth have fram'd , that they should have the supreme right and power of punishing vice even in the magistrates themselves , but not with corporal punishments , but by prohibiting them the sacrament , first privately ; and if on this they reform'd not , then in a more solemn and publick manner . but my opinion was ( as i always told them ) that one supreme magistrate of gods institution , and of the true faith , might , and had as good right , now , to restrain vice , as heretofore under the law : and i took me an instance from solomon's glorious reign , which was a kind of type of the christian church's reigning upon earth . now neither under him , nor yet under moses , the judges , or any other the kings , or when govern'd by the optimacy , have we any foot-steps of two so distinct judicatures over mens actions and manners . nature ( says musculus ) allows not two absolute and independent governments ( without any subordinacy of one to the other ) to lord it over the same people . i must confess i received great aids and improvement of these my thoughts from the persons with whom i conferr'd them : for in some things their observations out-went my own ; and where they did not , they furnisht me many material hints to mend them by : but still i kept my self quiet from any publick contests in this affair , and entered not into any debates about it where i was not provok'd , and then too i used the utmost moderation in the managing them ; esteeming it as disadvantageous as needless to trouble our churches with this dispute , when it did not yet appear that any body had imposed such a form of discipline upon them . but others who think the relish of government more sweet and pleasant than that of obedience , could not so temper their mouths , but by all the arts and insinuations that they thought might work our most pious prince to their designes , they labour'd ( as i afterwards understood ) to introduce something very like this into our churches ; and had not other rubs thwarted them , god knows how far they might have prevailed . besides , how did they lie at me all this while ? what dirt did they throw upon me , onely for that they knew how averse i was to their purposes , and that i should not be wanting , according to my best endeavours , to frustrate them ? but this i need not here enlarge upon . it happened about the same time , that an english-man ( who was then said to have left his country because he could not brook a surplice and such-like formalities then enjoyn'd ) desiring to commence doctor , proposed in his theses , disputes concerning indifferent matters and religious habits . now our divines would not admit of this man to his doctorship , for fear of giving distaste to the english clergy ( though in the latter of his theses something was proposed too relating to this matter ) ; but it seems they thought the peace and tranquillity of our own church , a trifle not worth the regarding . and therefore amongst his other theses this was one , that in every church that was rightly instituted , there ought to be a government or discipline observed , whereby the ministry , in conjunction with elders for that purpose to be elected , should have right and authority to excommunicate any vitious liver , even princes themselves . now though i was not without apprehensions that this dispute was not then taken up for nothing , yet i hoped withal that no more would come of it than of an ordinary disputation , where the question is agitated pro and con , not for deciding the matter so much , as to whet and exercise the young disputants , and to try how well qualified they are for the degrees that they stand candidates for . i therefore stirr'd not thither ; and indeed other affairs hindered my being present . and for others , who i saw ready to take up the cudgels , i advised them to have a greater regard to the churches tranquillity , than to the follies of a few ; yet some disputed the point with them : but it might have prov'd no more than a disputation of course , had they not called as well them as me , profane , satanical , devilish makebates , enemies to religion and holiness , fanaticks , and what not ? truly for my self , i can religiously say , it never enter'd into my thoughts to set pen to paper in this matter , till i both heard and saw with what intemperateness they comported themselves both publickly and privately ; so that i thought a longer silence but a betraying the truth . but as i was then more than ordinarily employed ( by reason of the sick souldiers who return'd from france with casimire , in the year 1568. ) i set down my thoughts but brokenly , as in the intervals of my employ , things from time to time occurr'd to my mind ; which , when i had amassed a pretty deal ( though confusedly and immethodically ) together , i distributed and submitted them to the censure of others , intreating them withal , that if they observ'd any thing false , or but weakly maintain'd , they would answer the one , and strengthen the other with better reasons . and i hop'd to gain this ( if nothing else ) thereby , that those of contrary sentiments would become more calm and moderate upon the perusal of what i had writ , and not differ from us farther than they had arguments to bear them out . one of the two persons ( with whom i thought of conferring most particularly ) saw and read three parts of four before the whole was transcribed ; and being then askt what was his judgment of it , he promised to give it when he should have perused the whole . but something , i know not what , he said by the by of leaven , and that he thought the consent of the antient church was to be very much esteem'd of ; and , in fine , some other things did he let fall : whereby 't was easie for me to make a judgment of his opinion in the case . and i learnt quickly after , that the very same person had writ a tract about excommunication , in maintenance of the vulgar opinion ; which made me no longer-doubt what answer i should meet with from him : for i knew him to be one who was not easily brought to retract what he had once asserted . therefore since i had in the latter part of my book confuted all his objections , i presented it whole to another person , who i thought the best friend i had in the world : he not onely took the book from me with disdain and contempt ( whether he had an item of it before , i know not ) but he plainly said he should not vouchsafe it a reading ; yet i left it with him for some days , and besought him with all the earnestness and entreaties that i could , that he would but look it over and give me his judgment upon it . but i understood upon good grounds that my sollicitations had been fruitless . i sent for my book about twelve days after , that i might get others opinions upon it . but because 't was long , and could not be so soon read over by many persons , i contracted it into certain theses or positions , that i might the better communicate it into many hands ; so that hereby i quickly got the opinion of the most eminent german divines ; and others who had refused the reading of it at my request , were at last thus drawn into it unawares . but that it might appear to the world that i sought after nothing but the naked truth , i prefix'd a preface to it , wherein i requested two things : first , that all men would be pleased diligently to examine every point , and weigh it by the scale of holy writ ; and if they saw me in an errour , would endeavour to set me right again , that i might be contributory to setting others to rights : i promised from the bottom of my heart ( god , the searcher of hearts , is my witness ) that i would thank him both before god and man , whoever should shew me my errour . and ( because i foresaw what after came to pass ) my second request was , that if they found fault with any thing , that they would so do it , that i might have a just liberty of explaining my self , and of justly defending any thing they should undeservedly condemn : for though i had approv'd my self a friend to them in all good turns , i could scarcely expect like measure again , by what i had before experienced . nor was i deceived : for the very men whom i had so fondly conceived to have been my best friends , turn'd suddenly my enemies , and would not so much as speak to me , though i had never through all my life injur'd them in word or deed , but always did and still will study to oblige them : but however , i thankt god that i experienced their constancy and good will to me , rather in a concern of this , than of any other nature . but restless were they ; and since they had vainly attempted by the help of the magistrate to call in these theses out of the hands where they had been dispers'd , they go another way to work , and desir'd ( under the pretext of laws which were never yet heard of ) that as divines were not to meddle with the opinions and rights of other professions , that it might be enacted and enjoyn'd , that all of other professions might be restrained from entering into their divinity-schools . had this been ask'd threescore years ago , it might have pass'd well enough ; but how 't would go down now , let others judge . are the precepts , to search the scriptures , joh. 5. 39. and 1 joh. 4. 1. try the spirits whether they are of god ; and 1 thess . 5. 21. prove all things ; hold fast that which is good , and the like , precepts which were given to none but those who teach divinity for hire ? i had thought that christian divinity had been a doctrine common to all men , and was therefore to be taught every where . but what is it they ask , when they would have us keep from their schools ? do they mean as they concern not themselves in any other faculties ? sure they would not have us not to hear their lectures , or that we should not come thither to learn ? who i ▪ pray , ever forbid them to study the languages , philosophy , physick , or law ? but if they care not for , or neglect those studies , must we do so by divinity ? did indeed the ignorance of the scriptures carry no worse consequence with it , than their ignorance in the other studies , we might peradventure complement them upon that point ; or they might easily prevail , if no body must speak against what they enact and determine . this was a thing that the romanists indeed , and by a better right than they , laid claim to ; but i cannot gratifie either of them herein , since christ my saviour has countermanded me . now that , they say , it becomes me not to meddle with matters of divinity , i value it not ; or that i have not a just regard to my reputation ( as they suggest ) perhaps because i make not a gain , or am not hired to study the truth : for were i paid for my teaching of divinity , i should do nothing ( as themselves hold ) unsuitable to my duty and function . but in truth i desire nothing but to have the truth understood , and god's name glorified , and my self exposed to shame , rather than the truth be kept under deck : for christ hath not without cause said it , joh. 5. 44. that they cannot believe , who receive honour one of another , and seek not the honour that cometh from god onely . therefore when this too fell not out to their minds , and yet they could no longer smother their animosities , they began to assail me with dint of argument ; which upon all occasions they urged not without the severest reflections upon me . now though i heard thereof from several hands , yet , for quietness and peace sake , i easily despis'd it , hoping to see the day ▪ that when those first emotions should be over , and their passions cool , they might stand more fair and equally affected to me . but alas , i was no prophet here neither ; for , for almost five months after , their hatred run as high as ever : nor did they give over baiting me and my writing , partly with clamour and reproach , and partly with i know not what sophistical reasonings . therefore taking a stricter review of my theses , which made an hundred before , i contracted them to seventy five , and marshall'd them in a little better order : something 's in them i explained more clearly , and enforc'd them more strongly . and in fine , i have made it my business to give as full satisfaction to all lovers of truth , as i could in so little a treatise . advertisement to the reader . this tract received never ( that i heard of ) more than one direct answer , and that writ by theodore beza , in the year 1590 , on the behalf of the geneva plat-form , or presbyterian way of excommunicating ; which put our author upon a farther reply in confirmation of the following theses , ( which remains yet unanswered , and unanswerable , for ought i know ) : but that reply being above four times as long as this that is here published ; and the main of the arguments that he goes upon being hinted here , though not so fully press'd , the publication of the other is at present forborn . a question of the weightiest moment , cleared : whether excommunication ( so far as it debars those who understand and make profession of the christian religion from the use of the sacrament , by reason of some sin committed ) be of divine institution , or the invention of men ? position i. the name of excommunication seems to be derived from 1 cor. cap. 10. and imports an amotion or separation from the communion ; which there , vers . 16. is called the communion of the bloud of christ : and in truth , excommunication is now defined by almost every body , to be an exclusion from the society and communion of the faithful . ii. now the company of the faithful is twofold ; the one , internal and spiritual ; the other , external or visible , and political or civil . ( for , for that third sort which our modern papists have invented , 't is neither of it self a well-fram'd one , nor pertinent to our present purpose . ) iii. now betwixt both these , the difference is at least so great , that there is no necessity that either should be comprehensive of each other : for as he may still remain a member of christ , who without any just cause is cast out of the visible church , or is otherwise constrain'd to take covert , and make his abode among infidels ; so they that pass muster amidst the visible flock , are not all the living members of christ . hence does it follow , that those things may well be different which unite us to one and not to the other , and separate us from the one , and yet not from the other . iv. and indeed we are made the members of christ , that is , are joyned to the internal and spiritual fellowship of christ , and of the faithful , by that faith alone which worketh by charity : and 't is by infidelity onely that we fall from this consortship . and therefore no body can give us admission into this society , or shut the doors upon us , but he that can impart to us a lively faith , and again withdraw it at his pleasure . v. now 't is by the profession of the same faith , by the approbation of the same doctrine , and in fine , by the promiscuous usage of the same sacraments , that we become consorts and fellow-members of the external and visible church . he that has these three in him , so long as he remains such , is reckon'd for a member of the outward congregation of the faithful , albeit he arrives not at the farther pitch of internal fellowship of the soul and spirit . vi. he therefore that is thrust out from external communion with the church ( that is , that is excommunicated ) is debarr'd all three , or two , or but one of them : but now from the two first , to wit , the confession of faith , and assent to the christian doctrine ( under which latter i would include hearing of the word and doctrine ) no one ought to be prohibited ; but rather on the other hand , the whole world are to be invited , and by all the allurements and arts of men , won and brought into these . there is nothing left then , but that he who is excommunicated , must and can ( of all the forementioned three ) be onely prohibited from the participation of the sacraments : but whether the debarring of all private commerce be an unseparable appurtenant of this , or the one may be without the other , will be an after-consideration . thus much is certain , that no other punishment hath any thing to do with this excommunication , as to the substance of it : for as for other penalties , they may as well be inflicted on such as stand not excommunicate , as they may not be inflicted on such as stand so . vii . therefore the papal faction , over and besides this excommunication ( which they call the lesser , and rightly define it by a bare exclusion from the sacraments ) do very improperly to adde any second , which they call the greater , and anathema ; and define it against express scripture , by interdiction and seclusion from temples , from all private commerce and conversation , and from all lawful transaction betwixt man and man : for the apostle , 1 cor. 14. 23. plainly shews , that neither heathens nor any others were precluded from hearing or reading the word of god , or from the thanksgivings or prayers of christians . viii . from what has been said , excommunication is apparently nothing but a publick and solemn interdiction , as was said before , or exclusion ▪ from the sacraments , and more particularly the lords supper ( which the apostle calls peculiarly 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , communion ) to the end that the sinners may repent , and be again readmitted to receive the sacraments . ix . here now the question arises , viz. whether any person be to be prohibited or debarred the use and freedom of the sacraments , upon the account of any previous sin acted by him , or for the wickedness of his life , if he himself desires to take the sacraments with other christians ? this question is meant , of such who profess the same christian faith , is ingrafted into the church by baptism , and differs not from her in doctrinals , ( as we said , sect. 5. ) but fails in point of morality and a good life onely . the question is therefore this : whether there be any footsteps in holy writ , of either precept or example , whereby such persons are either commanded or taught to be debarr'd access to the sacraments ? x. our answer is in the negative , that there is no such ; and that rather there are both examples and precepts too , more than once to be met with in the bible , of a quite contrary nature : for we have it from moses , exod. 23. v. 14. and 34. v. 23. num. 9. deut. 16. v. 16. that every male that was circumcised was to appear before god thrice in the year ; that is , in the feast of unleavened bread , in the feast of weeks , and in the feast of tabernacles : and the law commanded strangers too , deut. 9. v. 14. ( provided they were circumcised ) to celebrate the passover with the jews . the unclean also , deut. 16. v. 10. & 13. and those that should be in a journey afar off , were commanded to eat the passover the same day of the second month , and in the same manner with the jews . nay , 't is farther added , v. 13. that the man that is clean , and is not in a journey , and forbeareth to keep the passover , even the same soul shall be cut off from his people . 't was therefore the will and command of god , that all the circumcised should celebrate it ; and god excluded none from this sacrament , ( nor indeed from any other rites , ceremonies , or sacrifices ) except the unclean . xi . in leviticus several kinds of sacrifices are enjoyned , according to the difference of the sins which the criminal was thereby to expiate ; whether they were sins of ignorance and errour , or voluntarily and knowingly committed . in like manner doth god , deut. 14. v. 23. give a general command to all , ( there 's no exception there of sinners ) that they should eat the tythe of their corn , &c. before the lord in the place which he should chuse , that so they might learn to fear the lord their god always . sacraments therefore were to them allurements to piety ; and for that reason was no body thrust from them , but rather was every individual man invited to frequent them . xii . in very truth , we do not at all read that any one among the jews was either by their priests , levites , prophets , scribes , or pharisees , prohibited access to their sacrifices , ceremonies , and sacraments . the chief priests and pharisees counted christ and his apostles bad men enough , but we never find that they attempted to thrust them from their sacrifices or sacraments either before or after christs death ; nay , they did not drive out of their temple , or from their ceremonies , so much as a publican that was a jew , or any other circumcised proselyte , though a bad liver : for they were not to learn , that this was more than the law of moses allowed them to do . indeed , in mat. 9. v. 11. they reproved christ for eating and drinking with publicans and sinners ; but at no time or place did they twit him for praying with them in the temple , for his frequenting their sacrifices and other rites , for his yearly progress with them and others of the rabble to jerusalem to celebrate the passover and other solemnities : and so far were they from any endeavours to put the most cruel villains , and most wicked hereticks , the sadducees , from their ceremonies and communion in worship , that they even permitted them to climb to the dignity of chief priests : and yet 't is most apparent out of josephus and the acts of the apostles , what an inveterate hatred they had for one another . had it therefore been lawful , they would with open arms have embraced such an occasion of revenging themselves on their enemies . xiii . but farther yet , it was not in their power to keep them from eating the passover : for that was not eaten before the priests , but in their private houses , as we read christ to have celebrated his last passover with his disciples . every man was then a priest as 't were , as philo judaeus bears witness , when speaking of the passover , he tells , that on that festival every man throughout the nation sacrificed for himself , not expecting nor tarrying for their priests : for the law indulg'd the priviledge of priesthood to the whole nation , that on one set day every year they should sacrifice with their own hands . and exod. 12. v. 4. 't was commanded , that if the houshold were too little for the lamb , that then he and his neighbor next unto the house should take it according to the number of the souls , to the end that the whole might be eaten . the like seems to have been observed in the matter of circumcision , ( excepting in this particular , that they were not obliged to circumcise at jerusalem onely , as they were to celebrate there the passover : ) for i do not remember that the presence of the priest was requisite to circumcision . xiv . john the baptist too , who was the forerunner of christ , did constantly do the same : for he baptized not onely the pharisees and sadduces that came unto him ( whose behaviour and manners he very well understood , when he publickly called them a generation of vipers ) but also the publicans , and all others that resorted to him to be baptized , to the intent that they repenting them of their former evil life , might set about the amending it , and so might flee from the wrath to come . 't is scarce probable , that such a man as john was , should admit of men of such profligate lives , men that impiously , audaciously , and publickly denied the resurrection of the dead , had he not known that the law forbad not access to such : for the judaical law ( as has been already shewn ) prohibited no circumcised persons , but the unclean and leprous . xv. besides , this uncleanness was a legal ceremony , not any impurity of life , or pravity of manners : for not he who had sinned , or committed any wickedness , was thereby unclean ; but the unclean were those who touched any dead corpse , any excrements , any person that had an issue of bloud , or the like . and 't was for this cause that the pharisees would not go into the judgment-hall , when they had delivered up christ to pilate to be put to death , lest they should be debarred thereby from eating the passover . but surely the mosaical uncleanness did not so typifie and represent our iniquities , that as they who were thereby defiled were shut out from the tabernale , and the company of others : so should it signifie that these sins were to be corrected and punisht by with-holding the sacraments , and by exclusion from the visible church ; as appears plainly by what follows : for , 1. even whilst legal uncleanness was in force , and there were then wicked men in abundance , yet were not the same punishments appointed for the wicked and for the unclean . what probability is there then that these ceremonies should typifie their punishment , or in any sort signifie that moral delinquencies should be thus checkt and redress'd , when the ceremonies themselves should be taken away and cancel'd ? 2. moses had plainly been inconsistent with himself , had he in fact admitted them to the temple and rituals , whom at the same time he by those ceremonies signified that they were to be excluded . for certain it is , that no one was ever thrust out of the tabernacle , or from the congregation , for the pravity of his manners , if , as the law commanded , he had neither touched any dead body , nor otherwise in that nature defiled himself . at this rate therefore moses should punish those that were but figuratively unclean , and let such as were unclean in reality go unregarded ; ( i mean , as to this sort of punishment . ) 3. that legal impurity affected and tainted the body alone ; whereas wickedness consists in the internal actions and operations of the mind : for the cause and root of all evil is born with us , and falls not under mans correction , whilst it puts not forth its fruit ; for otherwise must the whole world be excommunicate : for we shall not get these spots out of our soul , whilst we breathe mortal air . but that other impurity , which is but a bodily stain , is punish'd by being debarr'd commerce with others , though there be no other fruit , no farther evil springing from that uncleanness , nor he that is defil'd hath done nothing against the law : but for the actions and transgressions of the unclean , they were dealt with at the rate of others transgressions , if the parties under that defilement did any thing against the law ; and the cleanness or uncleanness of the sinner neither aggravated nor lessened the moral guilt . 4. our very adversaries confess , that not all sorts and sizes of sins are to be redressed by excommunication ; whereas the law commands that every uncleanness be punisht by exclusion from the tabernacle and publick sacrifices : so that those could not typifie all sorts of iniquities . 5. no man that sins unwittingly can be excommunicated ; but 't was usual for men unwittingly to contract uncleanness , and not onely without any blame of theirs , but to their great grief and trouble . what fault was there in him , who sleeping , unvoluntarily suffered nocturnal pollutions ? and where the wife might unexpectedly fall into that condition which the law made a pollution to the husband , if he approach'd her ? or by the decease of children , wife , or parents ? or the like , which usually happened ? and now it needs not to be proved that they are onely voluntary and spontaneous crimes , for which persons may be ( as some men think ) debarr'd access to the sacraments . 6. a far severer punishment was ordained for him that killed a man against and without any will or intention of so doing , than a naked seclusion from the sacraments for some few weeks or days : if therefore an unpremeditated and involuntary offence , and by consequence a sin of the lesser die , underwent a more sharp and bitter chastizement than the foulest legal impurities , 't is plain that the punishments for them are not intended to represent the punishment for moral iniquities . 7. it often fell out , that men of the greatest sanctity and integrity became unclean , and were debarr'd both from entering into the temple , and from the use of sacrifices ; whilst on the other hand , men most notoriously wicked had admission to either , without controul : whereas if in the church of god both ought to undergo the same punishment , the latter should rather be secluded than the former . 8. 't is manifest that god did at no time or place absolutely prohibit all legal impurity : for some were to attend the dying persons , some those that were infected with an unclean disease , some must bury the dead , and in fine , some must purifie the unclean , ( by which means they themselves became defiled , v. numb . 19. ) so that god would not that all legal impurities should be avoided : but god prohibited sins of all kinds , and to all men , and at all times , and never indulg'd the perpetrating any wicked action at any time or place whatever . 9. god commands that sin should be restrain'd by fire , sword , halters , stoning , stripes , mulcts , imprisonment , and other penalties of the like nature ; but ordains that the legally unclean should be purified by sprinkling and washing with water , and the like , numb 19. v. 17 , 18 , 19. 10. he that had contracted uncleanness according to the definitions of legal pollutions , and died in that state , as for instance , women in their menstruousness , or men having a gonorrhea or leprosie on them , were not for that inroll'd among the wicked , or doom'd to damnation : but he that shall so live , that honest good men shall deem him worthy of excommunication , cannot be accounted of otherwise than as a sinful and impious person . 11. legal uncleannesses took place and were regarded but with one single people , and there too but for a limited time ; whereas sins sprang up every where , among all nations , without distinction of place or time . since then , as well among all other nations , as among the jews themselves , before legal impurities were introduced , sins were both when punished and in the punishing adjudged sins , it certainly signified something more than the punishment of flagitious men ; which was surely lighter than what was to make satisfaction to the will of god. 12. every person was purified at set-times and places , and by using set and peculiar ceremonies , be the party how he would as to his mind ; that is , whether he become unclean with or against his will : but none stand acquitted from their sins , but such as heartily repent , and do with as much sincerity as earnestness desire to grow and be better . 13. every one was his own judge of his being cleansed ( excepting the leprous , and some few others ) and stood not in need of judges or elders , who should judge for them , and pronounce them clean or unclean . our opposers have otherguess sentiments of the excommunicated : for they put the decision upon the judgment of their elders , not upon the assertion of the parties who say they repent . 14. the leper , lev. 13. v. 12 , 13. whose leprosie spread from the crown of the head to the so●● of the feet , so that the leprosie cover all his flesh , and that the skin of the whole body be all over of a colour , was to be pronounced whole and clean ; but he who on the contrary had his skin raw and defiled but in some one or more parts , was to be accounted unclean . now in the case of sinners , 't is quite otherwise : for he that wallows over head and ears in sin ( like a sow all bemir'd ) is not an honester man than he who retains some shadow of religion , and shew of honesty . 15. the lepers are not commanded to do any thing on their part towards their cleansing , but barely to shew themselves to the priest , that he may pronounce the plague clean or not clean : but to wicked men the command is direct , that themselves amend their lives , and give evidence of a sorrowful and penitent heart by their good and holy works . 16. many were made unclean by touching the very things whereby others were made clean , and while themselves did purifie others , v. numb . 19. but sure no man deserves to be excommunicated from the means he uses in the healing and purifying others who are defiled with sin and iniquity : whereas if you would have the figure to answer herein , you must grant that all that would recal others into the ways of righteousness by excommunication , are to be excommunicated themselves . 17. the unclean were not by the law interdicted all sacraments : for they were to observe all the private rites and ceremonies of their country ; they were to keep the sabbath , and celebrate the feast of purification , whereby the fruits and benefits of christs meritorious works were chiefly shadowed or expressed ; and all this at the peril of their lives , vid. lev. 16. and 23. for they were not ( as i said before ) taken for men damn'd , and of a desperate condition : but whether in the opinion of our adversaries the excommunicate are to be thought otherwise , 't is needless for me to attempt much the proving it . 18. the unclean under the law did propagate an uncleanness to the cloaths , houses , places , and persons that they touched , or had otherwise to do with ; but wicked men did neither defile the temple nor any thing else , nor indeed any other men , unless those others joyn'd with them in the sin . the temple was not polluted by bringing in an adulteress , numb . 5. v. 19. john 8. v. 11. no more did the publican ( who in the parable , luke 18. v. 9. went up with the pharisee into the temple to pray ) defile it by his presence ; that pharisee who thought him a mighty sinner , compar'd with himself , yet never thought himself defiled by his company . when judas threw down the traiterous pieces , the price of bloud , in the temple , we do not read that the temple was thereby polluted , or that the pharisees made any complaint , as to that , who yet would not go into the judgment-hall , lest they should be defiled , john 18. v. 28. whereas were but a woman in her menstruousness , or having an issue of bloud , or any one who had buried another , or had ( though unawares ) touched a dead body , been seen in the temple , all had been polluted and unclean ; nor might they have sacrificed , or perform'd any other worship , till 't were again purified . in like manner judas polluted not that last paschal-supper by his detestable acts ; which yet would have been the case , had but he or any other of the disciples touch'd any dead body . in fine , the uncleanness under the law , did figure our perverted and corrupt nature , which could not be admitted into heaven , unless washed and purified in and by the most pure and precious bloud of christ : for as the tabernacle typified heaven , and the casting out thence signified damnation , or the exclusion from the heavenly jerusalem ; so the cleansing or washings by ordinary or sanctified water , prefigured that purification by the death of christ . 't was not therefore typical , or figurative of the quality of the actions , but of the quality or pravity of our nature . nor did gods law prefigure how vice should be bridled and restrained ; ( for moses taught this in clear and express words ) but what should be our state in another life , to wit , in the kingdom of heaven , which the land of canaan did shadow to them : all which plainly enough appears in rev. 21. v. 27. st. augustin writing against the donatists , was of opinion that it signified the exclusion of hereticks : but , be it how 't will , even a blind man may see , from the many and great differences between the legal and moral impurities , that the former could not be figurative of the latter , as our adversaries contend . xvi . though moses makes none but the forementioned exception , yet shall i answer to an objection , which may be collected out of his words : for peradventure some one may thus argue , the jews are by moses commanded to eat the passover without leaven ; which paul , 1 cor. 5. v. 8 , interprets the filthiness of the flesh , that is , moral wickedness : it may therefore seem to some a very agreeable and likely matter , that the lords supper which succeeded to the passover , should be celebrated by shutting out malicious and wicked men . xvii . i answer , first , that it carries little of probability with it , that god should command a thing in express terras , and again at the same time figuratively prohibit the self-same thing . god plainly and expresly , and with reiterated precepts , commands that every male ( except the unclean , and such as were in a journey ) should keep the passover : he never therefore intended to frighten away some under the figure of the leaven . there were then plenty enough of bad men present , that it must be needless to typifie and shadow them out by leaven : and the wickedness of men was a thing as obvious to mens senses , and as much to be taken notice of , as the leaven that should represent it . therefore since no figures are commonly instituted of such things as are at hand and in view , and which with equal clearness strike the senses , 't is in vain to seek for any figure there : how much more where the things figured are more notorious and common , than the figures themselves ? but besides , moses does not command that the eater of leaven should be debarr'd eating the passover ; but commands him to be slain : therefore sinners should not so much be kept from the lords supper , as they should be capitally punished . which is a consequence i should be so far from admitting with difficulty , that i rather wish it might so be : for i desire nothing more , than that the strictest moral discipline might be observ'd in the church ; but such still as is of gods appointment , not of mans invention . secondly , the jews might eat leaven all the year round , excepting onely those seven days of unleavened bread ; ( which they did commence from the eating of the passover . ) now if you would parallel this with the lords supper , you must of necessity grant a liberty for licentious living all the year , provided you abstained from vice all the time you were celebrating the lords supper . thirdly , moses speaks here of the passover onely , not of any other sacraments ; by analogie therefore wicked men should onely be kept from the lords supper , not from baptism . fourthly , the apostle makes not the comparison to run betwixt the feast of the jews and the lords supper , but betwixt that and our whole course of life ; he says we are unleavened ( as men that are washed in the bloud of christ , and purged from all leaven ) and therefore , says he , let us keep the feast , that is , let us live not with the leaven of malice , but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth . there is a vast difference betwixt leaven simply so called , and the leaven of malice or wrath : there is none but knows that in the second sence 't is taken figuratively ; and school-men say , that an analogical or figurative sence proves nothing . this is certain , whatever is meant by leaven , excommunication can never be maintain'd or justifi'd from it , against gods precept . xviii . but some may object that paul speaks here of the passover ; but what , i pray , makes this to our business ? as if this word passover were put for the lords supper in the new testament : christ , saith the apostle , 1 cor. 5. 7. is our passover sacrificed or slain for us ; not his supper . the meaning of the words is this : as the jews , who onely began their feast of unleavened bread with eating the lamb , did eat unleavened bread all that week after ; so should you , who have begun to believe in christ , and are purified and become unleavened through his bloud , you should lead a pure and unspotted life all the rest of the week , that is , all the days of your life . xix . now that nothing of different nature is to be met with in the other books of the old testament , may be known and proved , if it were but from this alone , that the jews posterity were to live according to the laws and institutions of moses ; contrary to which they might not by any means institute or enjoyn any thing which related to the worship of god. most certainly the good and pious judges , priests , prophets , and kings , forced away none from their sacraments and sacrifices , but rather invited all to them with the greater earnestness and zeal . the story of good king [ it should be hezekiah , i suppose : see 2 chron. 35. ] josiah , 2 chron. 35. v. 18. is well known , who called together all the children of israel , as well those whom he knew to have sacrificed and burnt incense to strange gods or devils , as those who for the shortness of the warning could not be cleansed , 2 chron. 30. v. 19. according to the purification of the sanctuary : from whence 't is observable , that sacraments are provocations and allurements to religion and piety ; and that men grow better rather by frequenting , than by being robb'd of them , provided they are rightly and faithfully instructed . xx. excommunication therefore can never be maintain'd from the first chapter of isaiah , v. 13. psal . 50. v. 8. and many places of like import ; where 't is said , that god will have nothing to do with the sacrifices and oblations of the wicked : for god doth in all those places condemn the abuse of them , in that they thought that they fully perform'd the will of god by the meer external performance , at what rate soever their soul stood affected . besides , god neither commands the prophet , nor any one else by him , to exclude the wicked from the sacrifices and rites ; but shews that god will not hear them , unless that withal they amend their lives . now the external policy and government of the church stands upon a different foot with the will of god to us-ward , as himself is the approver or condemner of our thoughts and actions . in fine , from the self-same places it may directly and in the same manner be demonstrated , that none that is a sinner may call upon the name of the almighty ; nay , that 't is unlawful for such an one so much as to praise or give thanks unto god : and then 't will be incumbent on the priests and elders to forbid the wicked all these ; for god hath a like aversion to those when they come from wicked men , as is plain as well from the texts instanc'd in , as from places of the like import . and if this latter carries absurdity in it , no less doth the former . xxi . neither doth that of 1 esdras , chap. 9. v. 3. 4. make any whit against us ; for that was a matter of policy , and no ways relating to the sacraments : for the magistracy ( not esdras the priest alone , though he too was a part of the magistracy ; for as josephus bears witness , though they had a leader , yet were they govern'd by the optimacy or nobility ) set forth a proclamation , that whosoever met not at jerusalem within two or three days , their cattel should be seized to the use of the temple , and they be cast out from them that were of the captivity ; not from their sacraments and sacrifices . but we make it not the enquiry of this place , whether the magistrate hath a right of punishing so or so , but whether the priests had any authority of removing dissolute and bad livers from the sacrifices : esdras could not do this contrary to the command of god. adde to this , that moses never commanded this penalty ( to wit , exclusion from sacraments ) to be inflicted on them who married strange women , deut. 7. v. 3. and in the 8th chap. of 1 esdras , 't is shewn how he was to proceed against the transgressors of the law in that point , to wit , by death , banishment , corporal punishments , confiscation of estates , bonds or imprisonments . but in fine , 't was quite another thing to be thrust out from the company of them who had returned from the captivity , and to be shut out from the temple and sacrifices : for it appears from exod. 1. 2. 21. and numb . 9. 2. that the stranger that was circumcised , was admitted to keep the passover , and then too , many of those who either had continued in judea , or who of the inhabitants had forsaken the filthiness and abominations of the gentiles , and became jewish proselytes , did together with all the others , celebrate the passover , as 't is written at the end of the 6th chapter of esdras . these , such as they were , were not debarr'd the sacrifices , temple , or ceremonious rites , though they were not reckoned among the number of them who return'd from babylon . in like manner did they remove some of the priests from their sacerdotal function , because they could not make out their pedigree ; as appears 1 esdras 2. and from all put together , 't is plainly impossible that excommunication can be shor'd up or supported hereby . xxii . there is yet one objection left , which some men hug themselves in , and prize mightily , and that is the casting out of the synagogues : for to assert excommunication the more irrefragably , they quote you what is written in john 9. v. 22. and ch . 12. v. 42. and ch . 16. v. 2. but many and true are the answers to this . the word synagogue sometimes signifies a place ; as when jesus is said to have entred into and taught in the synagogue : sometimes a convention or meeting , whether the same were in the synagogue it self , or elsewhere ; as when the pharisees are said to chuse the chief seats in the synagogues , and the uppermost rooms at feasts , mark 12. 39. luke 20. 46. in this latter sence ( or rather in both of them ) is it used , mat. 10. v. 17. and ch . 23. v. 34. where christ foretels the scourging of his followers in the synagogues ; and mat. 10. v. 17. mark 13. v. 9. luke 12. v. 11. and 21. v. 12. in which places the word signifies no more than the publick place of judicature , as 't is often used for the same by the septuagint ; as we shall have opportunity to clear hereafter . but in the last forecited places , mat. 10. v. 17. and mark 13. v. 9. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which we translate councils and synagogues , are there put as if they both signified the same thing : in the other places , after 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , presently follows 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , kings and rulers , as in luke 21. v. 12. ( instead of which the same evangelist , ch . 12. v. 11. puts 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , magistrates and powers : ) so in mark 13. v. 9. mat. 10. v. 17. by comparing these places , 't is most plainly demonstrable , that the evangelists , or rather christ , did not ( by the words 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , council and synagogue ) understand or mean any thing more than the jewish judicatures which were held before several persons who sate as judges , though generally one had the chair , and something of superiority ; or if more did act , they did it in the name of one of them . in these assemblies or synagogues those that were found adjudg'd guilty , were buffeted and beaten with rods and the like , mat. 10. 17. and 23. 34. acts 17. 10. and 26. 11. and 2 cor. 11. 25. which place may be easily understood by deut. 25. 2 , 3. now the casting out of this kind of synagogue , was a kind of political or civil ignominy or punishment , and so a local banishment as 't were , as we gather out of luke 4. 28 , 29. which can never be applied to sacraments , which ( except it be that of circumcision , and some few others ) were celebrated in the temple ( of which there was but one ) and at jerusalem : and of the same nature doth that punishment seem to be , which we spoke of a little before in our clearing that of esdras . there is no body but knows that such synagogues there were in every city ; therefore whether you take the word in that of john , ch . 10. v. 17. for the assembly it self , or for the place where they assembled , it thwarts not our opinion any manner of ways : and if at most it were denied to be a civil assembly , yet must it manifestly appertain to religious matters . but i dispute not here whether he who entertains erroneous opinions of the true religion , be to be excommunicated : for the pharisees , says john 9. v. 22. agreed , that if any man did confess that jesus was christ , that he should be put out of the synagogue . but farther yet , it was matter of repute and honour to be of the synagogue , as of the other hand 't was a piece of reproach to be cast out of it ; as may , methinks , be easily gathered from joh. 12. 42. where 't is said , that among the chief rulers also ( of whom perhaps nichodemus was one ) many believed on him ; but because of the pharisees they did not confess him , lest they should be put out of the synagogue ; and the reason is added , v. 43. for they loved the praise of men more than the praise of god. besides , it appears that even the circumcised publicans were not admitted into the synagogues , in the sence we now take the word : for the pharisees would not endure so much as to speak with them ; and one of their cavils at christ was , for his familiar converse with those men . but i cannot imagine , that any one who understands himself , can affirm that these very publicans and sinners were debarred from the passover , from the temple , or from sacrifices ; therefore must they needs be two quite different things , so to be dissynagogu'd , and to be kept from the sacraments and rites of gods own institution : which is manifest , as well from what has been already said , as from acts 5. v. 42. for the disciples after they had been severely lesson'd by the synagogue , did not yet cease to teach and preach jesus christ dayly in the temple . what a many of synagogues was paul put out of ? but the jews never cast it in his teeth , never accus'd or condemn'd him for coming into the temple , and for offering there for himself and others . but to close all this , more may yet be said , could it never so plainly be made out that the pharisees counted it one and the same thing to exclude from the synagogue and from the sacraments ( which i shall make appear never was , is , or could be true ; ) yet they must needs have done this ( as well as many other things ) against the express law of moses , and then are we obliged not to imitate but condemn the pattern : for we are to live up to the laws , and not to presidents ; and not walk after any one in his deviations from the laws of god , unless we will confound all the rules and measures of right and wrong : let us indeed have an eye to the good examples of the good , and strive to come after them , but not after the bad of the bad . i have been so particular ( though with all the brevity i could ) on this argument , because some do mightily hug and applaud themselves in it , though to the deceiving of themselves as well as others . xxiii . 't is therefore a most certain unshaken and indisputable truth , that under the old testament no man was shut out from sacraments for immoralities ; but on the contrary , all the holy priests , prophets , judges , kings , and at last , john the baptist , that most eminent and most holy forerunner of christ , rather sent invitations to all , good and bad , to come in and keep them according to the law , than shut the doors upon them . xxiv . but now our sacraments , and those of our forefathers under the old testament , are ( as to the things signified , see the spiritual sence of them ) altogether the same , as paul , 1 cor. 10. plainly intimates . and therefore unless it can appear that the law of moses either is abolished or changed in this point , none has authority to set up a contrary practice . xxv . for as against the anabaptists we do well urge as a most effectual argument , that since baptism came in the place of circumcision , and that christ did nowhere forbid the baptizing of infants , it cannot be less lawful for us to baptize our children , than 't was for the jews to circumcise theirs ; so may we here argue with equal force , that the lords supper succeeded to the eating the passover : but vice and immoralities were not punished by prohibiting them to eat the passover , nor were the jews on any such account drove from it ; but the law did rather invite all , of what age or condition soever , especially every male , to keep it : which being not found to be either antiquated nor abolished , but holding still as to the reason of it , crimes are no more now to be punished by denying us the lords supper ; neither ought any one on this account to be rejected . but enough has been said with reference to the old testament ; 't is time we should now come to christ and his apostles , that is , to the new testament . xxvi . now we read not any where that our lord and saviour christ did in any wise interdict any person access unto , or use of the sacraments ; or that he so much as commanded the apostles that they should do any thing like it : for christ came not into the world to destroy the law , but to fulfil and perfect it ; therefore when the law commanded all but the unclean to celebrate the passover , christ would not surely forbid any one . xxvii . for 't is very clear that christ checkt no body for using sacraments , or frequenting the temple and sacrifices ; but onely caution'd them to use them aright , and agreeably to the will and law of god : he went into the same temple with pharisees , sadduces , publicans , and who not , be they bad , be they good ; he was with them at the same sacrifices ; used all sacraments promiscuously with the rest of the people ; was baptized of john with the same baptism as those wicked ones were . xxviii . upon this account was it that jesus hindred not judas his betrayer from eating the last paschal lamb with him , but he sate down to it with all his twelve disciples : not but that there are some who endeavour to prove that judas was not present at this new instituted supper of our lord ( which is an hard , if not an impossible matter to evince from sacred writ ) but that he withdrew before the institution : yet sure none can have the hardiness to deny that judas was according to the law admitted to the eating the passover ; on which concession , our argument holds firm and unanswerable : for whether he went or went not out before the institution of another supper , ( though the latter carries most of probability in it , and always hath been believed by most men ) this still is plain , that he was present and partaker of the first , and was not openly or expresly forbidden the latter : neither read we any where that christ commanded him to go out , to the end that he might not be a communicant in his new instituted supper ; if therefore he did go out , he did it voluntarily , and of his own head ; neither went he out for any such purpose . but ●he question with us is , what christ , not what judas did : 't is enough for our purpose , that christ never commanded him to withdraw from his supper . xxix . but the common put-off and salvo for this matter , is very light and frivolous ; that judas his crime was not of a publick nature , and that on that consideration he was not to be put out : for first , he had struck the bargain , and agreed the price with the pharisees before , and christ acquainted his disciples with it at that supper-time ; this was an ample publication by christ himself , and should therefore have been the rather made a president and example in this matter . but secondly , ( whatever this may be ) he was at least known to be a thief before ; and though such an one he were , yet did our lord commit a ministry and office to him , and bestowed on him the power of casting out devils , of healing the sick , and of doing other such-like miracles . lastly , christ admitted him as well as the rest of his disciples to the celebration of the passover , all the whiles he was with him . is not this proof enough that christ had no mind , no intent or desire that flagitious persons should be punisht by debarring them the sacraments ? sure 't is matter of greater moment to take a wicked man into the ministry , than to admit such an one to the supper ! yet we see that christ did both to judas . xxx . 't is farther observable , that at his first supper the disciples began to contend about greatness and superiority ; yet was none of them shut out thence on that score : nay , christ would and commanded that all should drink of the cup , mat. 26. v. 27. which , mark 14. v. 23. is said to be actually done : ( and as to this business , the reason holds in the bread as well as wine . ) now what can it be believed was the mind and intent of christ , but to ratifie what god had before commanded by moses , to wit , ●●t none who were initiated by baptism , should be debarr'd from that publick and solemn act of thanksgiving , who had a mind to be at it ? whence it appears , that no person is to be thrust from the lords table , who embraces the doctrine of christ , and submits to be instructed by him . xxxi . christ doth not desire that his kingdom ( i speak of his visible and external one in this world ) should be of a narrower extent among christians , than were the boundaries and limits set unto the jews . as therefore god commanded that all that were externally circumcised , should participate and communicate in the same sacraments and rites ; but that criminals and other transgressors , should by the sword and other civil punishments be restrained and punished : so is it christ's will , that all who are baptized into him , all that profess christianity , and have a right and sound sense of religion , should be admitted to the use of all external ceremonies and sacraments ; whilst the wicked and criminal fall under the correction of the magistrate , whether it be by death , exile , imprisonments , or other the like penalties . and the parables of the net , marriage , and tares , seem to import no less . xxxii . we find among the apostles , paul especially , no fewer nor less plain and forcible arguments for our assertion . first , there are no footsteps that the apostles did either teach or practise such a kind of excommunication . this argument , though it be not so evincing and strong of it self , yet will be made unanswerable , if we consider that the apostles all their time kept themselves to a strict observance of such laws of moses which christ had not abrogated ; as may be gathered out of the 21th and 28th chapters of the acts of the apostles : for which cause they never did nor would , attempt to put by any one from our sacraments ( which differ from the sacraments of their forefathers , in the signes and time of signifying onely ) if he be a professed christian , and make a right confession of that doctrine : for they neither did nor taught any thing contrary to the precepts of moses , which christ had not before abrogated , but kept themselves to as close and strict observance of the law after his death , as before ; as the chief of the apostles bears witness in the before-cited places : for that permission , to live free from the law of moses , was to the gentiles onely , not to the convert jews ; which ought carefully to be remark'd here , for the sake of what follows . and as to the substance of their doctrine , they taught nothing that interfer'd with moses and the prophets : for had they taught any thing dissonant , the bereans could not have judged it agreeable to those scriptures that they searched , acts 17. v. 11. xxxiii . but to adventure yet one step farther : much may be said for the sense of moses ; ( which jumps altogether with ours ) but for the contrary opinion , paul affords us not one argument : for that apostle , in 1 cor. 8. v. 7. excludes neither those who yet retaining some fear and conscience of the idols , thought them to be something , nor those proud boasting gnosticks , who in 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , in the house or temple of the idol ( at least , in the room that was set apart for their solemn and publick idol-festivals ) did promiscuously with the profane and impious idolaters , eat of the things offer'd to idols : a thing expresly forbid by moses , exod. 34. v. 15. by the apostles , acts 15. v. 29. by john , rev. 2. v. 14. this was a sin as hainous as 't would be now-a-days for a man to dare to be present and communicate at a popish mass ; as any one may easily gather out of the 10th chapter of that epistle : for paul there proves , that such as those do not less declare themselves by that action to be communicants , and keep a fellowship with devils , than they testifie themselves to be members of the mystical body of christ by partaking of the lords supper . xxxiv . again , paul , 1 cor. 10. 1 , 2 , &c. reasons the matter thus : as ( says he ) god spared not in old time such as lusted after evil things , nor idolaters , nor fornicators , nor such as tempted and murmured against christ ; though all of them were baptized unto moses in the same baptism , v. 2. and did all eat the same spiritual meat , and did all drink the same spiritual drink , v. 3 , and 4. so shall he not spare even you too , whoever of you are defiled with like abominations , though you also all eat in like manner , as did they , of the same bread , and drink of the same cup with the righteous and holy ones . by this it is seen , first , that the sacraments of the jews before christ , and ours since , are , as to the internal and heavenly designe of them , the very same ; else would the apostles , argument be of no force . secondly , 't is evident that in both cases many vile and wicked wretches , and notoriously known and mark'd for such , found admittance . thirdly , 't is also clear , that none were commanded to keep away ( as the excommunicated now-a-days always are : ) for the apostle doth not say that such , whilst such , should be kept from coming ; but foretels and denounces like punishments on them , as befel such sinners of old : some of whom moses with the levites slew , exod. 32. v. 28. some god himself destroyed with fire and sword , serpents and earthquakes ; which was these corinthians case too : for , saith st. paul , 1 cor. 11. v. 30. for this cause many are weak and sickly among you , and many sleep ; that is , are punished by disease and death from god. xxxv . in the next chapter ( though st. paul take notice of divisions and heresies among them , and of some drunken at the lords supper , yet ) neither are those schismaticks and sectaries , those drunkards , or others of whatsoever debauched principles , commanded to be kept from eating it ; there 's no tittle or word of any such interdiction : yet doth he there redress lesser matters , as that every man should eat at home , if he be hungry . how could he have here pass'd over this in silence , had he approved it ? had he thought it so necessary to the church ? but the apostle well knew that the law commanded otherwise , and that the use of sacraments in the church was to other purposes than the punishing of moral vices by their deprivation ; therefore commands he that every man examine himself , 1 cor. 11. 28. the precept is not , that they should try and examine one another . nay , the apostle there cautions them that they eat worthily ; for he that eateth and drinketh unworthily , eateth and drinketh damnation to himself , v. 29. he doth not in the least command that unworthy communicants should be denied access , but threatens them with sad dooms from the hand of god. he divides the eaters into two sorts , according to their differing complexions ; the worthy , and unworthy ones : he gives no precept to either for their not eating , but would that all should eat worthily . xxxvi . afterwards , in 2 cor. ch . 12 and 13. he threatens not those ( who , 2 cor. 12. v. 21. after a former admonition had not repented of the uncleanness , and fornication , and lasciviousness which they had committed ) with exclusion from the table of the lord , but , 2 cor. 13. 10. according to the power and authority which the lord had given him , to edification , and not to destruction , he would not spare , ch . 13. v. 2. and 10. that is , he would proceed with rigour and severity , according to his extraordinary and apostolick power ; a thing he often did threaten in his epistles : but nowhere has he preach'd this doctrine ( which is the question now in hand ) that any should be interdicted the sacraments ; nor has he commanded presbyters or any others to do it . but had he been disposed to have this way given check to wickedness , he would assuredly have ordain'd that sinners should have been kept from sacraments till they became reform'd in their manners , especially since he had before appointed or ordain'd elders in the same church , 1 cor. 6. v. 5. and had corrected the abuses , the miss-celebration in the lords supper . but perhaps we may have more to say to this hereafter . xxxvii . as we find no mention made of excommunication in the receiving and celebrating this sacrament , so neither doth any thing of that nature appear in its institution ; nor indeed hath the scripture taken any notice thereof in her explications of the use and ends of sacraments : whereas had sacraments been given to the church for this , as well as other ends and purposes , that they should have been for penalties upon offences and offenders , some mention must needs have been of it . the end and designes of this institution of the lords supper , are , that we may commemorate in the most solemn manner the death of our lord : that we may pay our homage in a publick recognition and thankfulness , for the deliverance he hath purchased for us : that we may remind our selves , and by our presence bear testimony to others , that we have no other food of life , but a crucified saviour ; no other drink , but his bloud poured out for us : that we may declare our selves as well penitent for our past course of life , as that we have enter'd upon thoughts and resolutions of a better ; and that we embrace the christian doctrine , are the members of christ , belong unto his church , in which we desire piously and religiously both to live and die . has the scripture anywhere prohibited any man from performing these things ? but , you may perhaps say , some men have too frequently relaps'd to their former bad courses , and become not one whit the better . i answer , he that by the aid and impulse of the holy spirit hath the thoughts of his heart right at the time of his receiving , the scripture turns him not away ; but god only knows whether and how long he will hold on his good purposes and resolutions . 't is our duty to hope always the best of all men , however we may sometimes be mistaken : nay , we ought to address our hearty prayers to god , that he would vouchsafe to strengthen and confirm both us and them in all true religion and virtue . but still the sinner is to be told of his faults , is to be reprehended , admonished , and advised , that he may so try himself , that ( as the apostle cautions ) he eat and drink not damnation to himself . xxxviii . lastly , whether are the sacraments ( either for the authority of their institution , or the intrinsick dignity of their nature ) of greater worth than the word , that word of god which christ preached ? or is there more necessity of the use of those , than of this ? none without the word , can or could be saved ; but who can doubt but that many have been , and yet may be saved , without the sacraments , ( especially the lords supper ) provided they are not contemners of them ? the apostle seems to have thought so too , when he says he was not sent to baptize , but to preach the word . do not almost all men say that the word is plain and visible , and sets before our eyes what words signifie to our ears ? why do we therefore make no attempts to shut any out from the word , but do it from the sacraments , especially the eucharist ; and that contrary unto ( or at least much beside the interest of ) gods express command ? do they say 't is because the word is for all , but that the sacraments were instituted onely for converts to the word ? i know all that , and speak not therefore of turks and pagans , such as never came within the churches pale , but of such as god hath called and ingrafted into his church , such as own the doctrine , and desire ( at least to all outward appearance ) to be worthy partakers of these sacraments . xxxix . hitherto have i strongly demonstrated , that there is no word or instance , no footstep or president to be found either of christs , or among his apostles , of such chastizements , or rather restraints and coertions put upon wicked men . since therefore neither the old nor new testament hath commanded this sort of punishing , but the clean contrary is often found in both of them , we may justly think this excommunication ( as far , i mean , as it excludes men from the use of the sacraments for improbity of life , and vitiousness of morals ) rather an invention of man , than any law of god. it remains therefore , that we examine what those who oppose us have to say for themselves ; and to convince the world , that all that they say has nothing of proof or force in it . xl. they tell you of a precept , mat. 18. 15 , 16 , 17. and in st. paul's epistle they tell you too of an example or instance of that kind , 1 cor. 5. 3 , 4 , 5. and 1 tim. 1. 19 , 20. we will take them in order ; and first for that in matthew . xli . 't was not the designe of christ in that chapter of st. matthew to set up any new model of government , or form of putting excommunications in execution , but to instruct his disciples how they should avoid giving of fence or scandal in the matter of righting themselves in private injuries done them : for since they who flie presently to the magistrate to right them ( especially where the magistrate , as was that the jews were then under , is an heathen and prophane ) do often give occasion of offence and scandal thereby to the weak . he first exhorts and advises them , that they rather forgive injuries , than run to the magistrate upon every slight occasion . thus far doth he nothing but call to their minds that precept of moses , lev. 19. 17. ( which ecclus 19. 13. hath a little more fully paraphras'd ) : after this , he directs , that if they are necessitated to resort to the magistrate for redress , that yet they should not ( if they would avoid scandal ) accuse their fellow-brethren the jews , before the roman judicatures , till their own magistrates fail'd in doing them justice . the like precept hath st. paul given , 1 cor. 6. 1 , &c. ( which place is a kind of comment upon this ) that is to say , that christians go not to law with christians before the unbelievers . this therefore is the true and genuine sense of this of st. matthew : if thy brother ( that is a jew ) trespass against thee , try to make up the matter betwixt your selves alone ; but if alone you cannot do it , try what may be done by the arbitrement and mediation of two or three of your brethren ( the jews still ) ; and if this way you have not a just satisfaction and amends made you , tell it to the church , that is , to the sanedrim , to the magistrate of your own religion and nation ; and if he refuse to hear him , if he stand not to the judgment of your own chief judicatures , you may without just offence to any man , deal with him as with a publican or heathen that should do you any injury , and whom you cannot implead nor call before any other authority but the roman tribunals . xlii . that this is the proper and genuine interpretation of the place , is plain and evident from the whole tenor and series of the discourse , but especially from the conclusion of it , and from all its circumstances : for , first , christ talks not here of any enormous and publick transgressions which belong'd to religion , and the laws and rites of their nation , for these the sanedrim or great councils of the jews were to redress ; but his discourse is of private wrongs , which every man had power for himself to remit . one manifest proof of the truth of what i say , may be , for that all the whole oration runs in the singular number : if thy brother shall trespass 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , against thee , go and tell him his faults between thee and him alone ; and again , tell the church , &c. and let him be to thee as an heathen , &c. so luke 17. v. 3. if thy brother , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and v. 4. if he trespass against thee seven times in a day , and seven times in a day turn again to thee , saying , i repent , thou shalt forgive him . we can no ways interpret 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , against thee , here , to be meant against the church : for when 't is after said , tell it to the church , the sence would be , o church , tell it to the church . and again , we can as little interpret it with thy privity and knowledge : for neither the sence of the words , nor the nature or circumstances of the discourse , will admit of such an explication . for why am i requir'd to tell a man his fault betwixt me and him alone , if i was but as one privy to his crime , and that he trespassed not privately and against me alone ? why should i not rather be enjoyn'd to take in them with me whom he directly injur'd , that they and i might reprove him together ? but christ gives not that scope and liberty to take others with me in my first applications to my injuring brother : and therefore 't is plain , christ speaks of injuries done me by my brother privately . but farther yet , how can the words of st. luke [ if he turn again to thee , thou shalt forgive him ] be accommodated to this sence ? can we say that here , to thee , is put for , thou being privy and conscious to the injury done by him ? what must then the meaning be of , thou shalt forgive him ? must we here also say , thou shalt be privy and conscious to his forgiveness ? did the prodigal son , luke 15. 11. that sinn'd against heaven , onely sin in the sight and privity of heaven ? 't is indeed plain enough in 1 cor. 8. 12. that we sin against the brethren , when we do a thing which may become a stumbling block to them through their weakness . but this of st. matthew is quite of a different nature ; and truly the whole frame of this discourse , and way of wording it , can't allow us to expound it of any other than private wrongs ; which every man has power and right in himself to remit and forgive : and if the injurer repent him not of his own accord , this is to be done on the part of the injured , to bring him to it . secondly , this is again proved , for that the apostles of christ did not otherwise understand him ; as may be gather'd from st. peter's question , v. 21. whether his seven times forgiving his offending brother would be enough ? peter could not be to learn , that he neither could nor ought to pardon an offence which concern'd others , or the whole church . thirdly , the words unto thee , v. 17. is a farther proof hereof . christ doth not say , let him be unto us , or unto others , or unto the church ; but let him be unto thee as a publican , unto thee who art or hast been the injur'd man. christ , though he address his discourse to all the apostles equally , yet commands that the wrong doer be held for an heathen and publican by him alone who is the sufferer thereby ; and that too , not till the church ( that is , the lawful magistracy of the jews in their sanedrim ) had admonish'd him . besides , he speaks not there of things which relate to the whole church , or to any number of persons ; but which relate to private men . fourthly , christ speaks of such trespasses which we are obliged to pardon as often as the offender says , he repents . and that this remission and forgiveness transacted between two alone , puts an end to the controversie , appears from these words , v. 19. again , i say unto you , if two of you shall agree on earth , as touching any thing that they shall ask , it shall be done for them of my father which is in heaven . but an hanious and publick offence , which concerns many persons , or perhaps the whole church , may not be remitted by one alone . and here we may take notice by the by , of that adverb again ; whereby he intimates his having spoke before to the same purpose , though in different words . fifthly , christ speaks of trespasses and offences which the actor of them is not asham'd of , or which he will not stick frankly to confess and own before any man. had he spoke of crimes of a deeper dye , which concern'd many , or the whole church , 't would be in vain to bring him to others that might bear witness ( as 't is v. 16. ) : for such an action , if 't were yet private , no offender would avow it before witness , which might endanger him . but in all things here discoursed of , this gradual procedure recommended by christ , must be observ'd ; and therefore he speaks of private injuries , which others have nothing to do with . sixthly , christ speaks of such offences which the church , he here speaks of , doth not otherwise punish than by admonishing the offender with bare words : for 't would be needless to have added , if he hear not the church , could an open punishment have redress'd the offence . seventhly , the parable that follows , v. 23. gives a clear proof to this matter ; its conclusion being , that god will not forgive them their trespasses , who from their hearts forgive not the trespasses of a repenting brother , without exacting farther pains or penalties upon him . but the church ( as some of our adversaries tell us ) ought not thus to forgive , but ought to keep them , at least for a time , from the sacraments , till they shall have given testimony of their repentance to elders surrogated and appointed for that purpose : so that such a church will not seven times a day forgive them that say they repent , but will see the argument and proof of that repentance ; things which christ says not a word of : he requires no farther argument than the confession of the fault ; which scarce any man will have occasion to repeat seven times a day , who hath not plaid the hypocrite in some , or all , of the former six . we have , i think , from all this evidently prov'd , that christ in this 18th chapter of st. matthew , speaks nothing of crimes that are to be redressed by excommunications , but of light and private injuries , and the way and means of making them up and reconciling them ; and therefore belongs not to the business of excommunication . if indeed we do but well weigh the close of that chapter , all doubt from hence must be at an end . xliii . he that can and will needs imagine that christ in this 18th chapter of st. matthew , set up or instituted excommunication , ought to shew in which of the words 't is contain'd : if he cannot shew it any where there comprized , 't is to no purpose to say 't is there commanded . but if it be there , it must either be in these words , v. 17. tell it unto the church : or in these , let him be to thee as an heathen and a publican : or lastly , in these , v. 18. whatsoever ye shall bind on earth , shall be bound in heaven , &c. but i doubt not to prove it with most unanswerable arguments , that none of these words comprize any such matter ; and since it can be found in no other , 't is lost labour to enquire here after it . xliv . these words of christ , tell it unto the church , prove no more than this , that he who has been injur'd by his brother , and all his endeavours of reconciliation with him have been ineffectual , may honestly and lawfully complain of him to the church , or to the governours and rulers of the church . and further , that this same church hath a right and authority to reprehend and admonish the wrong doer , that he cease from being so : but no more of power is here given to the church , than ( v. 17. ) was before given to the one or two witnesses , excepting onely in this , that the cause is not to be brought before the church without the witnesses . is it not therefore a weak way of reasoning , to say , the church has power to admonish him that trespasses against his brother ; therefore has she power to excommunicate him , or to deb●● him the sacrament ? but now , some may perhaps urge , that the church not having a right or authority of punishing the guilty with death and other corporal punishments , she is necessitated to have recourse to this way of denying them the sacrament . but i answer , were the antecedent as true ( as indeed from both the old testament , from the history of all ages , from what our own eyes and senses tell us , we are assured 't is quite otherwise ) no such consequence could be drawn from it ; nor can it be ever proved that these things have any necessary coherence one with another : the church hath not the power of the sword , she can't kill and slay ; therefore may she , must she , drive from the sacrament those who own and profess the same religion , the same saving faith ; she must drive from that sacrament that was instituted for , and ought to be open and common to all that outwardly profess the same faith. xlv . if yet our adversaries think excommunication to have been instituted in these other words , let him be to thee as an heathen man and a publican , i utterly deny it : nether can it by any art or rhetorick , perswasion or argument whatever , be demonstrated whilst the world stands , that this form of speech , let him be to thee as an heathen man and a publican , should tantamount to this , let him be excommunicate , let him be kept from the sacrament : for even in the days of christ , the circumcised publicans , were they jews or gentiles , were not prohibited the temple , sacrifices , rites , ceremonies , and sacraments . and truly christ may seem to have joyn'd the publican with the heathen , to prevent all thoughts and suspition of his here interdicting them such rites and sacraments how could the publicans by the jewish law be shut out from the temple , and from worshipping god there , when 't was not so much as a sin to be a farmer or collector of taxes and tribute-money ; nor found to be any where prohibited by god ? sure 't is , that christ nowhere forbad it . when the publicans askt john what they must do to be saved , he doth not bid them quit their employments ; but directs them , luke 3. 13. not to exact more than that which was appointed them . and , luke 19. 5. christ doth not order zacheus ( the chief among the publicans ) to lay down his office , nor finds any fault with him on account of his employ : and the publican that , luke 18. 10. went up into the temple to pray , and return'd to his house more justified , in the judgment of christ , than the pharisee ; we do not read that he left off being a publican ; nor those others who , luke 7. 29. and luke 15. 7. justified and praised god , and were dear and intimate with christ and his apostles . in short , i say , that the holy writ , that is , god hath not at any time or place condemn'd , or any ways spoke against publicans for their very being publicans , that is , tax-gatherers ; which all sober men will voluntarily grant me . upon which concession , i argue thus : god in scripture condemns not a publican as a publican . now whom god condemns not , he cannot be excommunicated by any law of god ; therefore no publican could by the law of god be prohibited access to the temple , or to divine worship . i therefore make this conclusion : no publican could by the law be condemned or excommunicated ; but christ commands that he that neglects to hear that church which he there speaks of , should be to him as a publican : therefore he wills , that he should be to him as a man who was not by the law of god accursed , that is , not barely for his being a publican . and whereas these excommunication-men say , that the words , let him be to thee as a publican , signifie as much as if he had said , let him be to thee as a publican is to the pharisees ; 't is both absurd , false , and impossible : for 't is in no sort credible , that christ in the same place in which he design'd to institute ( as our adversaries will have it ) a thing of that weight and moment , and so beneficial and necessary to the church , should or would make the wicked action of most profligate men , the rule and measure for all the world to go by afterwards . besides , it hath been already prov'd , that no man was ever excommunicated by the jews , after the rate that we now talk of excommunication . and lastly , all the words of christ are inconsistent with this their interpretation : for christ here talks neither of , nor with the pharisees , but all is betwixt him and the disciples , and the subject of the discourse is of avoiding scandals ; and this is the thing that christ says , if the wrong doer neglect to hear the church , let him be to thee , that is , he is to thee , as a publican ; to thee , not to the pharisees . moreover , 't is plain that christ and his disciples , and other good men , had no hatred for the publicans ; most certainly they never thought them to deserve excommunication , but did dayly eat and live with them . and in that christ joyns the heathen and publican together , we must needs acknowledge that christ speaks of a matter common to them both : therefore these words , let him be to thee as a publican , must have quite another meaning from these , let him be to thee as an excommunicate person . this therefore must be the meaning of the place : if he neglect to hear the church , you may ( as to this matter ) proceed against him without offence or scandal to any man , as if you had to do with an heathen man or a publican . now he that had a controversie with any such , was forced to submit his cause to the roman magistracy ; ( which is plain , as to the heathens alone : and that 't was so for the publicans , may easily appear , for that they were the sworn officers of the romans , even against their own nation ; and for that also , that they could expect scarce common justice from the pharisees and chiefs of the jews , who accounted them the most despicable and profligate of mankind . ) but christ allowed not this appeal to the roman magistrate against a brother-jew , till he had endeavoured a reconciliation that way which christ proposed , and which had before been prescribed them by the law. st. paul's excuse for himself , in the last of the acts , looks much the same way , to wit , that he had never appeal'd unto caesar had he not been constrain'd ; nor did he it to accuse the jews , but defend himself from violence and wrong . the apostle , 1 cor. 6. 1. commands , that if any christian had a matter against another , he should decide it before the saints , and not presently go to law before the unjust : but if a christian had just cause of action against an infidel , what doubt is there , but that he might prosecute his right before an heathen magistrate ? so if any one did neglect or despise the sentence , judgment , and admonitions of the elders of the church , he that was the sufferer , the injur'd person , might without offence to his neighbour , appeal unto the heathen magistrate . xlvi . but we shall handle this matter with the more perspicuity , if we take into examination what , and of what nature that church was , which christ commanded the injur'd person to tell it unto : in the clearing of which , i lay this for the entrance and foundation ; which i doubt not but all men will allow of , and i know none that ever denies it , ( viz. ) that christ speaks of a church that was then in being ; how could he otherwise have bid them tell it to a church which was then nowhere to be found , and of which , and of its nature and constitution , they as yet heard nothing ? had he design'd the raising a new church , or new form of government as yet unknown to the apostles , he had deliver'd them but a very lame institution , for that he neither told them who were that church , nor how , nor of what sort or number of men it was to be made up of , nor the ways of their judicial proceedings , nor what penalties they might inflict , and the like : neither did he speak of all kind of sins , as i have before proved ; and even they who build their excommunication upon this text , are forc'd themselves to confess as well as we ( for they openly own ) that christ took notice here onely of private trespasses . but whenever christ made any new institution , he omitted nothing that was requisite to its being and subsistency : here he onely says , tell it unto the church ; and if he neglect to hear her , he gives the complainant liberty to look on him as a publican : here 's no penalty annext to the contumacy . st. luke when he sets down the same passage , recounts it not with all those particularities as st. matthew does . the other two evangelists make not the least mention of it ; who yet would scarce have pass'd over a matter of such moment and necessity , had they known that christ had then first made any such new institution . to which we may adde , that the apostles were all along firmly perswaded that christ should not die , or change the jewish rites ; nor did they here , by word or otherwise , declare themselves not to understand what christ here taught them , or shew any forwardness to ask farther after it , or to wonder , as if he had told them an unusual and unheard of piece of doctrine . peter onely wondered at this , that he was requir'd to forgive his brother so many times together : surely therefore they never took these words of christ to be institutive of a new form of government , which they had never dreamt of before , but believed themselves to be taught ( as truly they were ) when and for what they might without offence and scandal , accuse or implead a brother jew before an heathen magistrate . and at this day 't is rarely seen that jews go to law with jews before christian judges . xlvii . but if any ask me whether and how then can this precept reach all men ? whether it be of farther use than for those alone that live under an unchristian magistracy ? my answer is , that the first part of it , of labouring a reconciliation before we appeal to the magistrate , or go to law about the matter , belongs to all christians ; but the latter is of no force or use , but where true professors live under an unchristian or antichristian magistrate . st. paul , 1 cor. 6. v. 1. & 4. therefore advises the corinthians to chuse out some among themselves who may judge such controversies betwixt man and man , that they go not to law before the vnivst , that is , the heathen roman judges . who doubts but that the corinthians might lawfully have conven'd a christian brother that had injur'd them , before the roman and gentile tribunals , if he had refused to stand to the determination of those who were chose from among themselves to judge on such occasions , or if he mended not upon their sentence ? 't is certain , that st. paul , when he saw himself hardly pressed by the jews , appealed unto caesar , acts 25. 11. which , acts 28. 19. he excuses to those jews that lived at rome . but he that shall carefully compare lev. 19. with ecclus 19. and 1 cor. 6. with this chapter of st. matthew , will be able much more clearly and easily to understand this whole matter , and may observe how well all hangs together ; especially if he diligently note the latter part of christ's and of st. paul's words , which were justly omitted in moses and ecclesiasticus , there being then no occasion for them , for that the jewish nation was not then subject to any forreign power , as they were in our saviour's and st. paul's time to the roman empire . xlviii . and thus far , as i conceive , all will easily agree that christ spoke of a church which was then in being , i mean , the church in judea ; but quickly shall we be divided again in our enquiry what christ understood by the word church : for sometimes it is put for the whole congregation or multitude gathered together ; sometimes for the senate , council , or elders , which were its governours . thus find we the hebrew words to signifie a church , company , or congregation , ( as num. 35. 24 , 25. josh . 20. 6. psal . 82. 1. and elsewhere ) which the septuagint renders by the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , a congregation . now there are arguments of no little weight , to induce us to conclude , that christ in this passage of st. matthew , would not have us understand by the word church , the multitude or congregation of people , but the jewish senate or council , called sometimes 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for , first , 't is evident that christ did not innovate any thing in the forms of judicature or government which were administred agreeable to the law ; nor did he himself , or permitted his disciples to do any thing contrary to what moses had rightly instituted by gods command . now moses did ordain , that such suits and controversies should be decided not by the multitude , but by the senate or sanedrim of such and such places ; which at first was held at the gates of each city , where the elders sate to judge . had christ thought of introducing any thing here contrary to the institution of moses , his disciples must needs have been highly moved at it , who were all their lives strict observers of the law. let every man think with himself what dust and triumphs the pharisees would have rais'd , could they have in truth fixt so criminal an action upon him , that he in opposition to the law of moses , had stir'd up the people against the magistrate ! what fairer pretext could they have wish'd to lay sedition to his charge , than by proving upon him this attempt , to set up the people against the magistrate , contrary to gods determination ? to commit to them the examination of witnesses ? to give them a power to convene whom they would before them ? to grant them cognizance of gauses , and power of judicature ? secondly , christ commanded to tell it unto that church , which had power to send for and call before them the party accused ; which might hear the cause , which might examine witnesses , ( and therefore he commands us in the second place to take two or three , that the fact may be competently prov'd ) and lastly , which might pronounce their sentence and judgement in the case . but every one must know , that these things could not be done by the croud , the multitude , without chusing some set persons who might manage and moderate matters . ( it must be a very small congregation , a very handful of men , who could be able of themselves , without the elders , to dispatch such causes : for which reason some have rightly judg'd that this precept of christ could not hold well , could be of little or no use , but when the church consisted of very few members . ) but now since that they who thus preside in these affairs , are in very truth nothing but the senate , the sanedrim , the sessions of the elders ; it again follows , that christ commanded not to tell it unto the multitude , but to the council or sanedrim : and truly in christ's time the people had not the power of chusing their magistracy and governours . we must needs therefore by the word church understand the jewish senate or council ; as 't is plain the disciples did , from what has been already said . therefore if the meaning of the church there , be all the members of it , the people ; we are then to tell it unto a church which has right and authority to make choice of such a senate or council as was that of the jewish church ; but our churches have no power to chuse such a council as the jewish sanedrim was : nay , in christ's time the jews themselves had not that liberty , as i told you just now . we might adde , that when the scripture speaks of the multitude , it generally uses the words people , multitude , children of israel , or the like comprehensive words ; but when any thing is related to be said or done in the synagogues , or in all the congregation . i need not tell you that this form of speech is usual at this very day : for we say , we have communicated the matter to such a kingdom or state , when we have acquainted onely the king , senate , or governing part of such state or kingdom : we recount how this or that nation has rewarded a man , when the representatives onely in such a dyet or parliament hath been liberal-handed to them . 't is so common a thing to use phrases of this nature , that 't is wonderful so few should have observ'd it . but the sum of all is this : christ alter'd not the customs of his time , nor introduced any novelties or changes into their courts of judicature , or measures and ways of judging ; nor do his disciples betray any suspition of innovation or alteration : and therefore his command is to acquaint the sanedrim , before their denier resort to the heathen magistracy . xlix . now , 't is evident from holy writ , ( as well as other history ) that the sanedrim was the legal magistracy of the jewish nation , and that in christ days they both kept and us'd the power of the sword. many things in the narratives of the passion of christ , besides other testimonials , evince as much : they send armed men to take jesus ; they proceed in examining witnesses , as the law requir'd ( at least they pretended so ) ; they command him to be set before them in judgment ; they delivered him bound to pilate , after they had first publickly condemn'd him : they openly condemn stephen , and command him to be stoned : they seize the apostles , and put them in the common prison ; they cause them to be beaten , after a general consult held about them : they give letters and authority to paul to bring any that he found of that way , bound to jerusalem for to be punished . the jews themselves , with the elders and high priest , that is , the sanedrim , say it in express terms , by their speaker tertullus ; who accusing paul before foelix , acts 24. v. 2. adds , v. 6. that they took him , and would have judg'd him according to their law , but that lysias came upon them , and with great violence took him away out of their hands . and acts 23. v. 3. says paul to the high priest , sittest thou to judge me after the law , and commandest me to be smitten contrary to the law ? and afterwards , acts 26. v. 10. paul confesses before king agrippa and festus , that many of the saints he shut up in prison , having received authority from the chief priests ; and when they were put to death , he gave his voice against them , and punished them often in every synagogue , and compelled them to blaspheme ; and farther , persecuted them into strange cities ; still acting under the authority derived from the high priests , as when he was going to damascus by their commission , v. 12. i can't imagine but that agrippa , and festus too , knew well enough whether it was lawful or not for their council to do so ; and sure they would not have acquitted him in the manner they did , v. 34 , & 35. had not the authority he had been committed by , been warrantable : for paul should have offended no less against caesar , than against the pharisees . for he who doth an unlawful act by the permission and command of them who have no right nor authority to permit and command , transgresses no less than they that command it : but no such thing is charg'd upon the accusers or accused ; but paul is fully acquitted , as one that hath done nothing worthy of death or of bonds . and had not the jewish sanedrim had this authority and liberty then lest them , pilate could not have said to them , joh. 18. 31. take ye him , and judge him according to your law : and when they answer , that it was not lawful for them to put any man to death ; this must be understood either ( as st. augustin interprets it ) at the time of that festival , for fear of the people , or ( as st. chrysostom expounds it ) of that kind of death which they desired that christ should die . with which latter opinion , the words of st. john which immediately follow , very well agree , to wit , that the saying of jesus might be fulfilled , which he spake , signifying what death he should die . to the same purpose is that of mat. 26. 55 , 56. where christ says , i sate dayly with you teaching in the temple , and ye laid no hold no me ; but all this was done , that the scriptures of the prophets might be fulfilled . they took him therefore at a time when , by reason of the feast then at hand , and for fear of the people , they could not put him to death : vid. mat. 26 5. and mark 14. 2. since therefore they could not bear that he should live any longer , and they could not well take his life away themselves , it follows of course , that he must be deliver'd into the hands of the romans ; that so all things which he had , ( mat. 24. ) foretold his disciples , might be fulfilled ; as the words of st. john intimate , and as augustine and chrysostom agree : and those cries and vociferations of the people , crucifie him , crucifie him , give farther testimony to this interpretation . l. by what has been said , the falsity of that affirmation is apparently detected , which says , that the sanedrim had not the power of the sword , that is , the authority of life and death ; and that stephen was ston'd tumultuously by the rabble , and not by decree of the council . for i think i have proved beyond all contradiction , that such a power they had ; and for st. stephen's case , 't is clear , that he was not tumultuously slain , for that acts 6. 12. he was solemnly brought and accused before the council ; witnesses were produced , though false ones , v. 13. they carried him out of the city ; and those witnesses , as the law provides , cast the first stones at him , as may be easily gather'd from their laying down their clothes at saul's feet , v. 58. the same too may be as fully proved out of other histories : for josephus in his fourteenth book of the antiquity of the jews ( ch . 12. 16 , & 17. according to the greek copies ) tells us , that the romans gave liberty to all nations , and by name to the jews who dwelt in or out of judea , to use their own laws in things relating to religion , and to live freely according to their own rites and customs . and in that twelfth chapter he quotes strabo for his author , that he ( writing of the city cyrene ) says , they had there a president or chief ruler who heard and decided their causes , and transacted all affairs , as absolutely as if they had been an independent state. that also makes farther for us which we read , acts 18. 15. of gallio the deputy of achaia ; where he tells them , that if it be a matter of their law , they may look to it . the same josephus , lib. 16. ch . 4 , & 5. recounts how herod had obtained of agrippa , that the jews in asia might have the freedom of enjoying the priviledges before that time indulg'd them by the romans . i take occasion to remember this , because some object that herod destroy'd and slew all the sanedrim , and stript them of all authority ; as if none had succeeded those that were kill'd : how likely is it that herod should take from them in jerusalem that power of judging in matters relating to religion , and determining therein according to their law , who endeavour'd to procure and preserve the same to all the other asiaticks ? besides , the time of christ's preaching fell not under herod or archelaus , but under the government of pilate : 't is certain that the jews forced even pilate himself to send again out of the city the roman standards ( which he had caused to be privately introduc'd ) to prevent the breach of gods commands of suffering any image in the city . and that they reserv'd and continued this power to themselves , to the very destruction of jerusalem , may be clearly gathered from josephus his oration to the besieged ; the romans , says he ( in his fifth book of the wars of the jews , ch . 26. ) exact tribute of us , for that our forefathers have a long time been wont to pay it to theirs : if in this you comply , they 'll neither sack this our city , nor meddle with our temple , but leave both you , your goods , and families free , and the free use and enjoyment of your sacred laws . titus himself , after his having taken the city , said almost the very same to the jews , lib. 6. chap. 34. whether therefore we consult the holy writ , or the jewish history , 't is an undoubted truth , that that sanedrim which christ commanded to tell it unto , had the power of the sword , the power of life and death , especially over those who sin'd against their religion : ( for in civil matters , and causes of right and wrong , where the law had not specified the punishment , i do not question but that the romans encroached and usurp'd , if not all , yet most of them , to themselves , as is easily discernable out of history , and may well be conjectur'd out of acts 18. v. 12. ) li. and 't is no ways repugnant to what we have said , that in josephus his antiquities of the jews , some of them tell albinus , that it was not lawful for the high priest to call the sanedrim or council , without his leave : for he there , as an historian , relates what others did ; not that he applauds or approves of the fact thereby . besides , peradventure the high priest during the interregnum , that is , whilst albinus ( after the death of festus ) was no his journey thither , ought not to summon a court for a matter of that weight and moment , till the new governour confirm'd him in that authority : for he had procur'd that james the lords brother ( who was vulgarly sirnamed the just ) should be put to death ; who being a person well belov'd by all , many took it very ill at his hands : for he was but newly got to that dignity , and not approv'd of , or confirm'd in it by the roman governour . and eusebius , in the second of his ecclesiastical history , chap. 23. tells us , that this high priest snatcht at this occasion of the interregnum . but what 's all this to our purpose ? was not archelaus , who was stiled king in his father herod's last will ( and that by the allowance and gift of caesar ) was he not therefore king , because he refus'd the name and authority of a king , till he had caesar's confirmation for it ? and not the magistrates of some cities ( of which there are many in germany ) who are subject to some particular prince , not true and lawful magistrates , because on the death of the prince they are requir'd to pray the confirmation of their priviledges from the successor ? but now that the high priest had power , after his confirmation , to convoke the judges of the sanedrim , is clear enough , for that they do not say to albinus , that this summoning them was in it self unlawful , but that it ought not to have been done by him , without the apprebation and privity of albinus . lii . it has now been fully and solidly prov'd , that , tell it unto the church , signifies no more than tell it unto the magistrate of thy people ( or who is of the same religion with thy self ) before you implead your brother in the heathen courts , as st. paul , 1 cor. 6. 5. hath incomparably expounded it ; where he commands them for this cause to chuse persons out of themselves to judge and arbitrate their quarrels . but now who doubts but that this precept holds not , where god hath blessed us with a pious christian magistracy , a magistracy of the same religion with our selves ? indeed st. augustine , in the second chapter of faith and works , plainly enough informs us , that he accounted excommunication supplied the place and defect of the visible sword , when the church wanted that external aid : for , as he would have it , moses his punishing transgressors with death , and phineas his slaying the adulterers , did typifie and prefigure the punishing evil men by degradations and excommunications ; that is , at such time as the material sword , the civil temporal power , should be wanting in the church . i remember that some modern writers hold , that the jews had and retain'd this custom of excommunicating , because the sword was taken from them ; ( which i have prov'd by irrefragable reason , argument , and testimonies , to be utterly false : ) but were it but thus far true , it must necessarily follow , that there 's no occasion for excommunication in such a church which hath the civil authority of its side : nor is it requir'd as a thing obligatory to us , to chuse judges or arbitrators , other than the lawful judicatures of the land. be it how it will , nothing can be more certain , than that the word church in this passage of matthew signifies nothing less than a church-senate , a council of clergie-men or ecclesiasticks , endowed with a faculty , a right or power to shut out whom they please from the sacraments . liii . two objections yet remain : first , how any one can be said to neglect to hear the church , if that and the civil magistrate , who hath the power of the sword , are the same thing ? secondly , how that passage of binding and loosing , mat. 18. v. 18. suits with this matter ? to the first , the answer is intimated before , that the jews had not then power of judging in all matters , but almost every thing that related not to religion , belong'd to the roman judicatures : and therefore christ permits , that if any one neglects or contemns the authority of the sanedrim in such matters , the injur'd person may prosecute his right before the heathen magistrate ; in like manner as if he were to sue an heathen or publican . besides , many cases may occur , which the law had not provided a distinct and proper punishment for , or had not prohibited under any penalty at all ; in which case it may well be , that the offender may be dismist without more ado than a verbal chiding or admonition . now if the wrong doer does not yet leave wronging him , the party injur'd may seek farther satisfaction , and may again and again apply himself to the church or magistrate to punish the other's obstinacy : but though this answer hold true , yet the former seems , in my mind , more apposite and suitable to the purpose and designe of christ , as well as to the several circumstances of time and place , and the like . liv. to the second , there is as little difficulty in framing it an answer : for since the manner of speaking is the same , and almost the self-same words are here repeated which are used by christ , mat. 16. 19. 't is necessary that they signifie either the same thing , or something very like it ; but in mat. 16. 19. to bind and to loose signifies nothing else but to preach the gospel ; whereby he that believes in it , is loosed from sin and from death : and therefore can signifie here no more than the desiring his brother to leave injuring him , and rather to become good and affectionate to him ; this being a thing acceptable unto god , and he will surely punish those that break this great commandment of love and charity . now he that thus wins upon his brother by soft advice and entreaties to forbear wronging him , and urging to him the revealed will of god , and what wrath he has in store for them that thus offend ; if his admonitions have their effect , he hath gained his brother , that is , he hath loosed him : if they return unsuccessful , he is still bound , the wrath of god remains upon him , in like manner as it doth upon him who having heard the word of the gospel preached unto him , believes or disbelieves it . but now that we might be ready and forward to forgive them that repent , christ labour'd to perswade us to it by that most apposite parable of the kings taking account of his servants , which he subjoyn'd to this passage ; whereby christ's meaning and purpose is mightily cleared , as to the sence we have put upon it before . lv. i cannot but infinitely wonder , how or why some men do here expound this binding or loosing by driving men from the sacraments , and readmitting them thither again , when throughout the whole bible these words are never put for any such matter , and the apostles have neither by word or otherwise discover'd that they understood christ in such a sence . there is extant a precept of christ , that if any refused to receive the gospel , they should depart out of that house or city , shaking off the dust of their feet against them , luke 10. 11. mat. 10. 14. which they put in practice , acts 13. 25. and 18. 6. but that they should deny any sacrament to those that believed the word , and were baptized unto christ , and embraced his religion and doctrine , we nowhere find it either enjoyned unto , or practised by them , as hath been before abundantly and firmly proved . but it may suffice at present to inform the world , that it can never be made out by holy writ , that binding is put for excluding believers from receiving the sacrament ; or loosing to signifie a readmission again of him who had been for his sins and contumacies debarr'd , and thus to re-engraft him as 't were into the church anew . lvi . thus have i firmly and truly prov'd , that christ in mat. 18. 19. treats not of exclusion from sacraments , but of the charitable management and composure of private injuries between fellow-brethren , men professing the same faith. but others have seen this before , as well as i ; as st. augustine in his sixteenth sermon upon st. matthew ; and theophylact , who ( as no body can otherwise doubt ) borrowed this opinion ( as almost all he says besides ) from chrysostom . among the more modern divines , d. johannes brentius writes many things in his comments upon this chapter , very agreeable to what we have said . lvii . 't is now requisite that i should shew that the action of st. paul , 1 cor. 5. 3 , &c. is nothing of kin to this excommunication . first , that apostle appears to have been a strict observer of the mosaick law ; against which ( as he answers for himself , acts 25. 8. ) he had not at all offended : and , acts 18. 18. and 21. v. 24 , 26. it appears , that he with other of the apostles , complied with the ceremonies of the law , and bore the jews company in keeping them ; and was ill spoken of by the convert jews , not for teaching the gentiles that the observation of the law was not requir'd of them , but for teaching the jews which were among the gentiles to forsake moses , &c. whereas all the believing jews that were in judea , kept and were zealous of the law , v. 20. but who knows not that christ changed not the law of moses in that point of celebrating the passover , which commands all to come who were circumcised ? and therefore neither doth he keep back that incestuous person , nor any other , from communicating at the lords table , who would come and profess the christian faith. as to the jews , 't is a plain case , who would never have suffer'd such an encroachment upon their law , and their constant inveterate usage to the contrary : and who can well think that the gentiles should be in worse circumstances than they , as to this purpose ? lviii . but again , if the delivery to satan was no more than a bare interdiction from the sacraments till his repentance , why did paul excuse himself to the corinthians with all that care and niceness ? why did he so near repent him , as 't were , of what he had done ? ( as we read he did , 2 cor. 2. 4. and 7. v. 8. ) besides , why were the corinthians so overwhelm'd with grief , if they already knew this to be the method and practice of the church in punishing sinners , and that this was to be a lasting discipline for all successions of ages ? they should rather , methinks , have rejoyced that they had such a president and pattern given them to walk by for the future . if it were but a spur to repentance , and an wholsome and safe antidote against damnation , why did their sorrows run so high ? why were they not rather rejoyced ? christ tells us , that the angels of god rejoyce more over the conversion of one sinner , than over ninety nine just persons . the corinthians therefore could not have had the spirit of christ in them , had they conceiv'd such mighty sorrow on seeing the apostle do this and no more , and barely to recal an erring brother into the right way again , and save him from that damnation he was pulling down upon his own head : but who can be so blind as not to see that the apostle struck deeper than this comes to ? thirdly , what need had the apostle to write to them , 2 cor. 7. 8. that he does not repent , though he did repent ? or how indeed could he any ways repent him of what he had done , if his purpose was to have it put dayly in practice every where , and in all churches ? or if it were but a temporary seclusion from the sacrament , and at longest but till his repentance ? fourthly , what occasion was there that the corinthians should use such earnest and powerful intercessions with the apostle on that wretch's behalf , if they knew that upon his repentance he should straitway be admitted into their fellowship again ? but that they did earnestly entreat for him , 't is evident from the apostles words , 2 cor. 2. 10. to whom ye forgive any thing , i forgive also : for if i forgave any thing , to whom i forgave it , for your saeke forgave i it in the presence of christ. fifthly , we find paul in that second chapter , v. 9. excusing himself , that one of his aims was to know the proof of their obedience ; and in the seventh chapter , v. 12. he tells them , he did it that his care for them in the sight of god , might appear to them . how could he have said or writ thus , if he had commanded them no greater a matter than that they should trun away such a one from the sacrament ? sixthly , how shall we ever make these words hang together , ye were made sorry in a godly manner ( or with respect to god ) that ye might receive damage by us in nothing ? 2 cor. 7. 9. he tells them , they suffer'd no loss , damage , or detriment by that sorrow of theirs , for that their grief had been prevalent with him for the pardoning that unhappy wretch : without this they had received loss , even the loss of that incestnous person . but pray what loss had it been to them , if he had been onely to be kept from the sacrament till he repented ? seventhly , paul speaks not there of the lords supper , but of the whole life of a christian ; and therefore his meaning must be , not to put him away from the table of the lord , but from among them , that is , out of the world ▪ that that little leaven might not vitiate the whole mass . this is suitable to the apostles phrase , and to the figure of leaven ; but excommunication cannot be easily accommodated either to his or moses's words . eighthly , it must be observ'd , that he doth not say simply , that they themselves , and they onely , when they are gathered together in the name of the lord , or according to christs command , should deliver him to satan , or deprive him of the sacrament ; but , i verily , as absent in body , but present in spirit , have judged already as though i were present , concerning him that hath so done this deed , in the name of the lord jesus christ , when ye are gathered together , and my spirit , with the power of our lord jesus christ , to deliver such an one to satan , &c. plainly intimating , that the power of our lord jesus christ was necessary to intervene in this business ; and therefore was a matter of greater moment than a temporary amotion from the sacrament : besides , he says , that he himself had already judged ( though ( perhaps by reason of his absence ) he determin'd not to do it without them ) he doth not command the church that they by themselves should do this , as if this were purely an apostolical , not an ecclesiastical power ; an authority annexed to the persons of the apostles , and not to any church or other order or succession of men : which are considerations not to be slurr'd over with slight and contempt . lastly , we do not any-where read that the apostle commanded any single person , or number of men , to deliver any one to satan for the destruction of the flesh , either whilst he lived , or when he should be dead and gone ; well knowing , that this was appropriated to his apostolick power , and not to be delegated , not to be agreeable to any other or less authority : for as they had the power of healing , so had they that of wounding too , as appears , acts 5. 5 , 10. and 13. 11. for which reason we read not of any ordained by the apostles , that are commanded to exercise this extraordinary power . and therefore the apostle is ever and anon threatning them with his coming in power ; with his being sharp and severe upon them ; with his dealing with them according to the power given him by god ; with his coming to them with a rod , and the like : and commands to note those by epistle that offend . this is not a thing given in charge to the elders ; that it may be without all controversie , that this power was granted to the apostles , and to none else . of the same import is that which we read , 1 tim. 1. 20. of hymenaeus and alexander , whom paul ( not the church , nor the presbyters , nor any other persons whatsoever ) delivered unto satan . lix . i have hitherto , by way of argument , and from circumstances , clearly evinced , that 't was a thing of a quite different nature , to deliver to satan , and to shut out from the sacrament . now proceed i to demonstrate the same truth from the words themselves , and the propriety , tendency and nature of that whole passage : for , first , the apostle does not say , why did ye not interdict this incestuous person the lords supper ? but why have ye not mourned , 1 cor. 5. 2. that is , why have ye not by mourning and prayers put up to god , besought that he that hath done this deed , might be taken away from among you , what way god shall best please ? st. augustine in his third book against parmen . explains the place to the same sence ; and the same way doth he expound what the apostle , ch . 12. hath written of sorrowing . they also seem to be of st. augustine's and truth 's side too , who suppose the apostle to allude to 1 king. 21. & 9 , & 12. from whence we may conjecture it to have been an ancient custom among the jews , to make inquisition after enormous crimes , by fasting , prayers , and publick mourning , that the same , when detected , might be brought to condign punishments as the law requir'd . therefore at that time when the church was destitute of the civil authority , he admonishes them that they ought to address to god that he would ( as might seem best to him ) take him out of the way ; which was a quite different thing from that which we call excommunicating a man. but besides , by what competent author can it be made out , that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , to take away from among men , should be a phrase for debarring a man access to the sacrament ? in propriety of speech he is said è medio sublatus , to be taken away from among men , who is any ways kill'd : for though a banished or exil'd person may in some sence be said to be driven away from among others , yet in propriety of speech , and as the greeks commonly use it , 't is not so taken by them , at leastwise 't is not to be found in that sence in holy writ . secondly , but if the apostles direction here be to have him discommon'd and thrust out of the fellowship and converse of the faithful , what need was there of publick mourning ? he should have been turn'd over and banisht to the gentiles . but that 's not consistent with that other clause , that his soul may be saved ; which ( at least on our adversaries principles ) could never be out of the pale of the church . if you say he was onely debarr'd and removed from the sacrament and private commerce , he was not then è medio eorum sublatus ; he was not taken away from among them : for i do not think any man able to make it out , that the apostle order'd him to be kept from the sacrament alone , and from private conversation , familiarity , and fellowship with them . this then is a mere addition , a forc'd sence upon the apostles words , which cannot be prov'd ever to have enter'd into his thoughts . truly i think that no man ( who is vers'd in scripture , and the most ancient expositors of it ) can doubt , but that the apostle borrowed this passage , and the very words that he expresseth himself in , from deut. 17. 10. ch . 19. 20. ch . 21. 7. ch . 22. 6 , 11. ch . 24. 8. where moses puts the words for cutting off the offender by death , and for nothing else ; and in all the alleadged places , moses keeps to the self-same words ; whereas in ch . 13. he puts 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , but both in the same sence . how is it therefore possible that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , here should bear such a construction , viz. to excommunicate , ( as excommunication now-a-days signifies ? ) thirdly , the context seems to prove that this offender did not persist in that piece of wickedness : for in v. 2 & 3. of that fifth chapter , 't is , him that hath done this deed ; which shews he had , not that he then did , do it . the apostle therefore seems to designe the punishing him for the fact that he had committed , agreeable to the command of god , and to the practice of every good magistrate : and indeed when he says , v. 4. that the spirit may be saved , &c. he seems to have been inform'd of his penitence : for how could he otherwise have written thus of a man who had given no proof how his soul was touch'd for so enormous a wickedness ? fourthly , the apostle tells them , he had determin'd or judg'd already to deliver such an one unto satan , for the destruction of the flesh , that the spirit may be saved in the day of the lord jesus . are we to seek for the signification of the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ? in what prophane author , or in what place of scripture , hath it a different sence from what 't is here taken in , of giving , giving up , delivering , permitting , yielding , and the like ? and here we have , first , the person giving him up , and the person to whom he was so given , and he that was given : nay , 't is over and above added , why and for what purpose he was deliver'd up . and as to the form of speech , 't is just as if i should say , i deliver over my son to his master , or i put him into such a masters hands , for instruction , or for discipline . who that should hear a man speak so , would not think that he put his son into the masters power , to be instructed or corrected by him ? he that would have instances of this nature , let him turn to 1 tim. 1. 19. acts 27. 24. mat. 5. 25. and ch . 18. 34. and ch . 27. 2. mark 13. 9. john 19. 16. and that of mat. 24. 9. they shall deliver you up to be afflicted , is directly parallel : so mark 13. 12. the brother 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 shall deliver up ( or as we render it , shall betray ) the brother to death . so 2 pet. 2. 4. speaking of the angels that sinned , he says , that god deliver'd them into chains of darkness to be reserv'd unto judgment . in job 2. 6. god says unto satan , behold , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , i have deliver'd him to thee , or as we render it , he is in thine hand , onely save his life . do not all these places tell us of a delivering up to be afflicted , to be killed , to be condemned , and the like ? in short , none shall to the worlds end , be able to shew that ever this kind of phrase is used to signifie the excluding one from the sacrament , unless the destruction of the flesh here , and interdicting the sacrament be the same . fifthly , 't is impossible to shew that this word , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 destruction , is any where in the new testament put for mortifying the lusts of the flesh ; but where-ever 't is found , 't is put for the death of the soul or body ( whether the word flesh be joyn'd with it or not ) . i might also say , that no extant greek author hath used it to that sence that some , as i have said , put upon it ; but we keep to its acceptance in scripture . the apostle makes use of it in 1 thess . 5. 3. and 2 thess . 1. 9. and in 1 tim. 6. 9. and the verbal 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , we read in 1 cor. 10. 10. as the participle 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in heb. 11. v. 28. and the compound 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , acts 3. 23. taken by that holy pen-man out of deut. 18. 15. but in all these places death and destruction are thereby signified . the septuagint do ordinarily use 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which pagninus generally renders exscindo , to cut off , or slay : 't is certain they always mean death by it . i know that which the apostle 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , rom. 8. 13. and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . col. 2. 3. and gal. 5. 12. and 6. 14. are put for mortification of the fleshly lusts . but for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , they are not met with in that sence either in sacred or profane authors ; nor in truth do i remember my self to have read that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the new testament is so taken . 't is therefore a poor evasion that some frame , supposing paul here to distinguish betwixt the affections of the flesh and the spirit : since he here sets the destruction of the flesh , or , which is all one , the death of the body , against the saving of the soul or spirit ; as both the genuine sence of the words , the drift and purpose of paul , the whole series and circumstances of the discourse , and the very word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , to deliver , so unquestionably demonstrate , that any lover of truth can't but sit down satisfied under the proof of it . but , sixthly , the following words , that the spirit may be saved in the day of the lord jesus , that is , in the day of judgment , give farther testimony to the truth of this interpretation , and are a convincing demonstration , that the apostle speaks of this wicked one , as of one whose death was at hand . seventhly and lastly , the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , 2 cor. 2. v. 6. ( which we translate punishment , but ought rather to be rendered censure ) argues he was not expuls'd from the sacrament : for in its primitive signification 't is put for chiding , censuring , reproving , or rebuking , and the like , ( as interpreters commonly translate it ) not for punishment , mulct , or penance . there are yet two more reasons left us ; the one , that the interdicting from the sacrament is nowhere in scripture put for or ordained to be punishment . the other , that the words themselves plainly shew , that 't is here put for chiding or censure ; which not one single person alone , but many used towards him : for , says st. paul there , sufficient for such an one is this 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , this censure ( not as we read it , punishment ) which was inflicted of many . he absolves him from nothing but those comminations and threats which many , or peradventure the whole church , all the corinthian believers , had denounced against him , that he should be delivered over to satan , to be by him buffeted , tormented , kill'd . he had yet therefore onely experienced their threats : for paul doth not absolve him of part , but of all that had as yet befallen him ; and , as he says , this censure , these threats and ratlings that had been rounded in his ears , were sufficient . nay , he plainly intimates withal , that this was all that was done to him . we read of this word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , mat. 16. 22. ch . 17. 18. ch . 19. 13. ch . 20. 13. and in the other evangelists ; as also 2 tim. 4. 2. ( where 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , bear it company : ) in all which places 't is put for reproof and rebuking , or the like ; but nowhere for punishment . lx. but here now it may be askt me , if the incestuous person underwent no more than this 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , this censure or rebuke , how can he be said to have been deliver'd unto satan , to be tormented and slain by him ? some of the ancient writers hold , that he was indeed deliver'd over to be tormented with diseases , or the like , and so be gradually brought to destruction ; but was released and absolv'd aagain by the apostle , before it had gone so far . if this answer be true , i see not but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 might here signifie punishment , ( as indeed our translation has rendered it . ) but now though i do not deny but that this is a passible interpretation , yet i shall present you another as suitable to the apostles words : st. paul had not resolved to deliver this man to the devil by himself alone , but had rather have it done in a full congregation , when the whole body of believers should be gather'd together for that purpose . but when once the church saw this deplorable creature so dejected and overwhelm'd with sorrow , and that grief had almost already given him the death that they threatned , they reprieved him as 't were , and deferr'd pronouncing the sentence , till they might learn the apostles pleasure , whether at their intercession he would remit the rigour of it , and restore him on his repentance : which if they could not prevail with him to do , they threaten they will not longer be wanting in their duty . thus came it to pass that this poor soul remain'd for some months under great terrors and agonies of mind , till he had receiv'd the joyful intelligence of paul's remitting the punishment . that the matter was manag'd much after this rate , may be plainly collected out of that second epistle to the corinthians . lxi . from what has been already alleadg'd , as well as from what might yet be urg'd , 't is so clearly and solidly demonstrated , that this delivering up to satan was quite another thing from that which we now-a-days call excommunication , or suspension from the sacrament , that sure none but those who are as defective in understanding , as in love to the truth , can have the face to deny it . i said just now , that some ancient writers expounded this place as we do : augustine ( whose testimony i cited before ) is one of them ; there is another passage of his in his first book , upon christ's sermon in the mount , concurring with us ; as doth also athanasius , and after him chrysostom , and his compiler theophylact. lxii . let us now take a short survey of those other places , which our opponents flie unto for their own defence . some lay a stress upon that passage of st. paul to timothy , 1 tim. 5. 17. let the elders that rule well , be counted worthy of double honour , especially they who labour in the word and doctrine : for hereby they fancy themselves able to squeeze out a proof that there were some elders who did not labour in the word ; and on these they bestow another office , to wit , that of inspecting and censuring our manners and behaviour , of being observators of our sins and failings , of admonishing the stubborn and refractory , of certifying their fellow-elders , that is ( say they ) the church ; and lastly , ( in conjunction with these ) of excommunicating such as hear not ( or obey not ) the church . lxiii . but we think it evident from the writings of the apostles peter and paul , that ministers , bishops , and presbyters or elders ( if office , function , and ministry be meant by those two last , and not their age ) were all the same in the apostles time ; and so that there was no presbyter who was not a teacher ( or preacher , as we now call them ) that is , who did not labour in the doctrine : unless any are desirous to stretch this word to those judges and arbitrators of suits and controversies mentioned 1 cor. 6. 4. ( but we talk not of them at present , since their duty was of a quite different nature . ) this opinion of ours , which we think grounded upon apparent truth , hath both hierom and ambrose to vouch for it : onely this latter says that bishops were first nominated out of the order of presbyters . this therefore is the manner of paul's discoursing ; as if i should say , i love all ministers and pastors , but especially those who with unwearied industry , and a constant waking care and sedulity , feed the sheep committed to their charge . i love all studious persons , but especially those who sit to it night and day . i do not now by saying thus , say that there are some pastors who never feed their sheep , or some students who never study ; but i suppose thereby some more diligent than others , though i do not say that any do more than they ought to do , or than their function requires of them . that this is the genuine and true exposition of the apostles meaning and words , the subsequent words , v. 18. concerning the reward , proves it : for 't is in no sort probable that the same reward was at any time allotted in the church to them that did , and to them that did not teach ; for the first should be charg'd with a double duty , and the other with but a single one : yet the apostle stiles them both worthy of double honour . besides , the apostle quotes that passage of the ox treading out the corn , to prove that sustenance is due to the ministry : and the participle 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 confirms our exposition ; which signifies not barely labouring , but wearying our selves with labour , or using an extraordinary diligence therein : and thus is it always taken in the * new testament , where it often occurs . and the greeks call that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , which the latins call lassitudo , weariness : and as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 differ , so do their verbs . lxiv . they say withal , that christ did forbid to cast pearls before swine , and to give things that are holy , unto dogs . i answer , christ speaks of them that despise those pearls , and tread them under their feet , and turn again and rend the donors of them ; that is , he speaks of the enemies of the gospel , with whom we have nothing to do in this dispute : for we meddle not with any here , but christians , who are rightly principl'd in that doctrine , and approve the same , and are desirous to be partakers of the sacraments with their fellow-christians , though they live not up to that integrity that others do . besides , christ speaks not there of sacraments , but of the doctrine of the gospel , which ought not to be offer'd to dogs and swine , that is , to such as refuse and trample it under feet ; of which nature is that parable of the pearl , mat. 13. 45. where christ likens the kingdom of heaven to a merchant-man who bought a pearl of great price ; and therefore it makes nothing to our purpose . lxv . whereas again they remember us that st. paul gave it in charge to timothy , 1 tim. 5. 29. that them that sin he should rebuke before all ; we deny not the thing , but deny that it relates to our purpose . i will not muster up multitudes of arguments to prove it ; this onely shall i say , that 't is beyond the wit of man to make it out , that to reprove or rebuke any man before or in the presence of the church , is the same thing with forbidding him the sacrament . nay , they that object this , object it to no purpose , unless they can shew it to be the same : who can prove that the apostle so much as thought here of interdicting the sacrament ? again , the apostle treats not here of sins that are committed openly , and in the face of the world , but those that sin ( says he ) that is , that persevere & continue in sin , rebuke before all , that thereby both he that hath sinned , and others that saw it , may fear with him , and do no more wickedly . he puts no distinction here between little and great , venial and moral sins ; much less between publick and private sins . to speak once for all , 't is a leaden objection , and will melt away like wax at the fire of truth , and vanish like the smoak . besides , st. paul's words stand in perfect opposition to this excommengent : for he commands him that sins to be rebuk'd ( not to be excommunicated ) before all , subjoyning it as a reason , that all may fear ; as if he should say , if he will not repent and mend himself , at least others shall thereby learn to be and do better . where by him that sins is not meant him that has left sinning , or him that had sinned onely , but him that abides and continues to walk in the ways of sin , and repented not after admonitions and warnings given him : him , i say , that thus sins , he charges timothy to rebuke and reprove before others ; he does not give it in charge to him , to see him excommunicated . lxvi . next , say they , the apostle commands so far to avoid the company of the wicked , that he allows not the liberty of making our common meals with them , 1 cor. 5. 11. with such an one no not to eat ; much less ( conclude they ) would he have us eat the lords supper with them . but i utterly deny the consequence : for surely they are of very different import , the prohibition of private familiarities , and the non-admission to the sacrament ; and the forbidding the one , is not a denial or disallowance of the other ; the former is a civil or political punishment , the latter sacred ; we have a command for one , none for the other ; st. paul explains the end and reason of the former , but we find no mention of either for the latter : nay , the thing it self is nowhere enjoyn'd , or so much as the name of excommunication once heard of in scripture . and that one may be without the other , the pharisees are a pregnant instance ; who , that they might pass with the world for the greater saints , would not approach the publicans , would not eat , drink , or associate with them in the common concerns of life . ( i can't at present recollect that i have read of the like niceness in any others ; ) but no man can shew me , whilst the world lasts , that these publicans were denied admission to the sacrifices , to the temple , to the passover , or any other sacraments , provided they were but circumcis'd , and turn'd not renegades to their religion . there are at this day some who shut out all notoriously lewd and dissolute persons out of their company ; they will not live , nor entertain a conversation with them : which evinces , that this avoiding their company , and maintaining no correspondencies with them , is rather a civil than an ecclesiastical punishment , and amounts not near to that of delivering over to satan , which some will needs have to be excommunication . the apostle directs good men to shun all consortship with ill , that shame may hasten in them a repentance : the interdiction runs not to the ill , that they shall not live among the good , if any good men would give them admittance . in private conversations men talk of all matters indifferently ; and if a dissolute wretch find by the freedom of his access , that for all his debaucheries he is as much made of as ever , not onely himself is not amended , but his company by degrees endanger'd : but where a man sees himself avoided , and that all shrink , flie , and detest his society , he can't but cast a reflecting thought upon the occasion , and enter into considerations of a better life , that he be no longer the scorn and contempt of those that before embrac'd him with all the arms of friendship . and therefore as being debarr'd of private commerce and conversation , frights us from some sorts of crimes and uncleannesses , so the indulgence of familiar and fair outward correspondencies , feeds , pampers , and encourages us in those bad courses . but these reasons hold not in the receiving or being denied the sacrament ; for frequent communicating at that table , gives not vigour and nourishment to our vices at the rate private communications and familiarities do : for in the churches or chappels where that is administred , no vain and worldly things , nothing of private concern , is then transacted , but the word of god onely is there handled . there , when men shall hear of a christ that died for them , of a christ that invites to that commemoration , and publick demonstration of our acknowledgments and thankfulness for so great a benefit , and that none can be a worthy communicant , who hath not throughly and sincerely examin'd himself , and that those who thrust themselves in unworthily amongst his guests , do but eat and drink damnation to themselves : this will put men , that intend to approach unto the lords table , upon a seriousness of thought , what is there exhibited ; what is his concern in it ; what god requires of him , and how he may for the future so regulate his life , that it may be acceptable in the sight of god , how debauched soever and villanous it were before . he that has not these offers , these incitements and invitations , is depriv'd of these invitations , grows still the worse , to be sure , no whit the better for it : which seems to be the reason of gods instituting and enjoyning such multitudes of sacrifices , offerings , rites and ceremonies . but for certain the apostle has nowhere order'd , that they with whom he would not have good men to hold a correspondence , should be also put by or denied the sacrament . and when in another place , 2 thess . 3. 14. he writes to have them signifie that man by epistle who walks disorderly ; ( for the marginal translation in our english bibles seems to be truest in this place ) he does not there set the elders upon excommunicating them , or suspending them the sacrament . all which are evident proofs of their mistakes , who think excommunication to have been either here approved , allowed of , or design'd by the apostle . lxvii . but to enforce the objection , they tell us , 't is no less unfit that the church , the congregation of the faithful assembled in the worship of god , should be defil'd with the company and communion of the wicked ; and that 't is therefore consequently necessary that the evil should in all accounts be serv'd and kept from the pious and good. but i would return them this answer : there is no danger that the wicked should pollute or injure the good in the use of those rites and ceremonies which are of god's own institution , whilst they take not after them in their natures , nor learn not their immoralities : for neither the holy prophets , kings , or judges , nor john the baptist , nor even christ himself , nor yet his apostles after him , were ever defil'd by being present at the same worship , at the same sacrifices , in the same temple , using the same rites and sacraments with men of the most debauched and profligate lives . our saviour was spotless amidst that generation of vipers , who were baptized with him by john in the same baptism . judas neither polluted christ , nor the apostles , nor the last supper of our lord , by his presence at it , though he was then a known thief , and had before laid the plot for betraying his master , and had received the pay for his pains . again , the apostle paul does not bid us examine one another in the celebration or receiving of the lords supper , and to look about us whether any of the by-standers , any of our fellow-communicants , be sinful or unworthy , be such as may derive any pollution or uncleanness to us ; but thus runs his commandment , 1 cor. 11. 28. let a man examine himself ; himself , he says , not others . lxviii . hitherto have i effectually and truly prov'd , that no circumcised person was ever ( before christ's days ) prohibited those ceremonies and sacraments which god by the hand of moses had ordain'd amongst them , upon any delinquency in morals , or piety of life : nay , i have withal shewn , that 't was not lawful for any one whomsoever to forbid them ; and i have by pregnant testimonies from scripture and reason , made it out , that neither christ nor his apostles taught or acted contrary . besides , i think i have demonstrated , that what our adversaries offer on their own behalfs , cannot maintain the opinion they would build on it . so that now i see not any farther rubs , nothing that can shock this conclusion ; that that excommunication which shuts out christians from the sacrament for pure immoralities , and the vitiousness of their lives , was never ordained by god , but is a figment and invention of men : for so far is it from deriving its original from scripture , that the invention and trick of it is rather declaim'd against and condemn'd there . lxix . if any yet reply , that at this rate we bespatter , we condemn whole shoals of pious bishops , who quickly after the apostles times began this excommunicating sinners ; i must tell them , 't is one thing to speak against an opinion , and another against the assertors or authors of it . many in our age , of no less piety than learning , have examin'd , have sifted and confuted sundry ancient ( and as i may say ) catholick errours , errours that crept early into the church : as for instance , the limbus patrum , purgatory , praying to saints , exorcisms in baptism , coelibacy of the priesthood , unctions in baptism and at the point of death , prayers for the dead , and satisfaction in the case how in question ; and yet i know not any man that has it charg'd on him as a crime , barely for that he hereby condemns his predecessors . if men will needs labour to enforce this excommunication upon the churches , as a law of gods promulgation , i can never be brought to commend it therefore ; though at the same time i cannot but highly praise and approve of their zeal and good intentions , who first gave rise to it : for their aim was hereby to curb the restiff and unweildy humours of vitious men , since they could not imagine a more commodious and effectual way of doing it : and very many ( as we see even to this day ) walk on in this beaten and publick path , do it because others before them did it , having never so much as taken it into their considerations , whether it be a matter that stands with holy scripture or no. lxx . i cannot at present say much of the very time when excommunication had its first rise ; onely that towards the latter end of the second century after christ , i meet with something like it then attempted and set up . for above one hundred and fifty years , i do not find any one suspended , or put by from receiving the sacrament , for unholiness of life . they that are fuller vers'd in the history and writings of the fathers , may perchance speak better and clearer in this point . they that shall carefully peruse what socrates in his fifth book of eccles . history , chap. 19. has transmitted to us , i verily believe will , without much difficulty , confess with us that this custom of excommunicating had its first epoch or commencement in the church , about the time of novatus : yet sozomen , in his seventh book , chap. 16. pretends other causes for its institution . besides which , we read that about the year of the lord 200. victor bishop of rome admitted not to the lords supper them who refused to forgive injuries ; but i have observ'd , that till that time none were denied the communion but hereticks , and such as swerv'd from or renounced the christian faith. but be that how it will , this is both certain and evident , that excommunication was first introduced into the church for the restraint and punishment of vice ; and afterwards when the church had got the sword into their hand , as well as the keys at their girdle ; that is , when the magistrates , kings and princes , became christian , and subjected themselves to the faith ; yet did the church-men not let go this power , but continued the exercise of it by their bishops : partly , for that the episcopal order was then believed to be of divine right ; partly , for that they could not but be fond and tenacious of that power which made them formidable to kings and emperours , and was therefore a morsel too sweet to be parted with without regret : and they easily wrought others into a belief of christs being the author and institutor of it , since themselves had before so forwardly and so willingly swallowed it . superstition too , in a little time , had ascribed so much virtue to the sacrament , that it gave strength to the opinion ; for 't was believed , and publickly owned by their writings , that there were some that could not die , till they had been housell'd and received the sacrament . either therefore this errour made men dread excommunication , or excommunication led them into the errour : for how facile a thing was it to impose upon the credulity of the illiterate and weak vulgar , that life was annext to the receiving , and death to the deprivation of the holy sacrament , since the denial of this to a sinner , was the highest and last punishment that they saw inflicted on him ? lxxi . but for the persons that executed and denounced this excommunication ( as far as our conjectures can carry us in this affair ) they seem to have been at first such elders as we read of 1 cor. 6. 4. ( who supplied the place and defect of magistracy in the church ) together with the ministry ; but afterwards all this authority was devolved upon the bishops , who took cognizance of all suits , made up differences , gave judgment , and did every thing that related to the decisions of right , and distributing justice betwixt man and man : as we perceive by the history of those times , and by st. augustine's complaining of so much then lying on the bishops hands of this nature . ambrose affirms , that those sort of elders whose assistance was wont to be made use of in the church on all occasions , were in vogue and authority when yet they were destitute of bishops . and it appears by the apostle , that these elders were to have an authority as to that employment of judging , as long as the church should be under the pressures of an heathen magistrate ; which gives us to understand , that as under a christian government that employment would be useless , and was therefore to cease ; so excommunication ( upon supposition that they had exercis'd such a thing before ) yet should it in a christian kingdom cease . for we must note , that these elders were instead of civil magistrates , and manag'd civil affairs , and were no ecclesiastical judicature : ( which now-a-days is of a different nature from the civil ) for 't is plainly said , that they were to deal in suits and controversies of law , things relating to this life and the concerns of it . lxxii . 't would make a volume to recount what advantages the church did hereby reap ; most certainly they can't be set out in a small compass : for first , this excommunication made men to look for salvation from the sacrament ; for thus they fram'd the argument : the exclusion from the sacrament draws down death and damnation ( say they ) therefore the receiving of it gives life . they scarce could entertain a doubt of the truth of the antecedent , whilst they were taught that this was so dreadful , so soul-destructive a punishment ; and when they thought themselves , by being shut out from the sacrament , to fall straight into the very clutches of the devil , and be wholly at satan's mercy : which has made it thought by some , that they could not die , without being housled , as i said before . this errour grew and got strength from the many great and long penances , the solemnities of absolution , and the like ; amongst which , none was more prevalent , than that they would not administer the holy eucharist to them , till the very point of death ; and that then they gave it them , 't was of pure compassion , that they might not go hence destitute of the souls necessary food : for if any ( through whatever accident ) was so unfortunate , he was held for a man damn'd and lost to all eternity ; as if god would not forgive them their sins who heartily and sincerely repent , and vouchsafe unto them everlasting life , unless these elders should adjudge them qualified for the lords supper . what errour is there of a more detestable and fatal consequence ? but another fruit of this was , that all the world now began to believe that 't was in the power of men to shut and open heaven when and to whom they pleased : and therefore the younger theodosius would not eat his dinner , because having denied an importunate monk's request , he stood excommunicate by him for his pains ; and though the bishop of constantinople told the emperour that the excommunication was invalid , yet rest , good man , he could not nor would not , till the same hand absolv'd , that had bound him . so ambrose for eight months together kept an elder from church , from sermons , and all the acts of publick worship : 't is true , offended he had , but more pardonably than ambrose himself , as any man , that has his eyes in his head , may see upon the perusal of nicephorus his history , and the chronicle of philip melancthon . by these steps has the roman see encroached upon the western world , and made princes , kings , and emperours to lacky to her lust , and arbitrary sway in pretended spirituals . dyed has been the german empire in the gore of hundred thousands that fell a sacrifice to this roman diana , to excommunicating popes , and excommunicated emperours , kings , and princes . religion she has chopt and chang'd , mangled and disfigured , debased and vitiated , at her pleasure ; none daring to question her canons , dispute her decretals , or look her bulls in the face ; the whole world were caligula's , and durst not shew their heads when she sent her thunder of excommunication abroad . the god of foxes spoken of by daniel , dan. 11. 38. ( if we weigh that passage aright ) signifies nothing but this excommunication , or the prohibiting men the use of sacred things , especially the lords supper : for this excommunication acts a very god in earnest ; 't is to this day a god of forces , a god who has put all things , all the power of heaven and hell , under the popes feet . and there are not wanting now-a-days too , another sort of men acting upon the same principles , who would make all humane authority and the civil christian magistrate , truckle to them , and dread their censures , as far as the popes ignorant votaries do his bulls . but i hope the time will come , when this god shall stand expos'd and condemn'd for a false and feigned god , and be stript of all its god-like terror and dread , and whatsoever may or has so long plagu'd and enslav'd the church . in fine , this idol excommunication had every where such an ascendant , that 't was the constant belief of the world , that they who by church-censures and interdictions from the sacrament , and publick acts of worship , were denounced unworthy of eternal life , were thereby wholly fallen from divine grace ; as on the other hand , saved must they needs be , whom the church received and would have so . can we hope better terms , or greater moderation , from our modern church-men , than the world has experienced in their predecessors ? i fear he that should expect it , would find himself deceiv'd , and that he has but little weigh'd what either the scriptures or experience might inform him of . lxxiii . i see no cause why christian rulers should not now-a-days do what god in the jewish common-wealth requir'd of the civil magistrate : do we conceit that we can frame a better model and form of discipline in church or state , than god gave to them ? since we read in deut. 4. that the nations for this should praise and admire the people of israel for their wisdom and understanding , evinc'd by those statutes and judgments which god had given them ; yet god never taught them excommunication : but the power of punishing the debaucheries , and restraining the looseness and licentiousness of manners , was wholly in the magistrate , whose duty 't was , not onely to animadvert on such crimes by the rules that god had in their law prescribed them ; but the management of all the externals of religion , the disciplinary part and constitution , was in them . for 't was not aaron , but moses that did this ( god still commanding it ) ; and we know this jurisdiction was transferred over to joshua , not to eleazar ; 't was joshua on whom god laid that injunction of seeing the israelites circumcis'd the second time , and not eleazar , josh . 5. 2. and this was to be universal , without exception of one man ; the bad were to be circumcis'd as well as the good ; and bad there were , without question : and the keeping the passover then was by him too directed ; nor was any person , that we there read of , excluded from it for dishonesty of his life . the ark of god was carried from place to place , as he gave the word ; and in all things relating to religion , he interpos'd his commands , as may be observ'd throughout the whole book of joshua . eli and samuel , who had the charge of religious as well as civil affairs , they offer'd and administred at the altar as priests ; but as judges they manag'd both church and state : for 't was lawful for the high priests under the old testament , to meddle with the arts of government and secular affairs , as they were the types of christ our king and high priest : but under the gospel 't is another case , it shall not be so with yov , says christ . see 1 pet. 5. 3. which is pertinent to our purpose . lxxiv . if we go farther to the kings , the case is no less plain : as to david , there 's none can doubt it , since it appears that he order'd all the offices and charges relating to god's worship : he that pleases may read , 1 chron. from the 22th to the 27th chapter . then for solomon , ( who was a king and no priest ) he not onely built the temple , but dedicated it . to the same purpose is that famous relation , 2 chron. 19. of jehosaphat ; which being well consider'd , gives great light to the matter in hand . so does that of the good king hezechia : and indeed the whole old testament witnesses no less . if therefore the state and church was founded , instituted , and established upon so much wisdom ; that which makes the nearest approaches to the form and model thereof ( as far as the present circumstances and different state of things will allow ) challenges at least our praises and approbation , if not our imitation ▪ and therefore in whatever nation the civil magistrate is christian , pious , and orthodox , there 's no need of other persons , who under another name or title should set a governing us , and call us to account , or punish us for our misdeeds , as if there were no difference betwixt a believing and infidel prince . but ( says d. wolfgangus musculus , in his common places de magistratu , from whom i have borrowed and transcribed what i said last ) 't is a most pernicious errour , and big with dangerous consequence , that so many think no better of a christian magistracy , than of an heathen one , whose power is to be allowed of no farther than meer temporals . if then believing governours had authority not onely to interpose in the ordering religious matters , agreeable to scripture-rules , and to regulate the offices and other the ministerial parts about it , ( which is the reason that moses commands , that when they should chuse them a king , he should write him a copy of the law in a book , and that to be with him , and he to read therein all the days of his life ) but had also power to punish vice in the same manner . 't is a needless fruitless attempt for men to be now-a-days contriving and setting up new models of government , which levels magistrates themselves to the rank and condition of their subjects : for this ecclesiastical jurisdiction , in point of manners , hath no place of holy writ to vouch for it , or set it up : not but that civil governours will do well to advise in all doctrinals with those that are learned and have labour'd in the word . lxxv . but now in those churches whose mishap 't is to live under a profane government ( as in the dominions of turks and papists ) they should make choice of pious sober persons , who ( agreeable to st. paul's command ) might arbitrate between contesting members , might take up quarrels , might do every thing of that nature ; might chide and admonish debauched flagitious men , and such of the ministry themselves who walk disorderly : and if this avail not , then might they punish them , or rather recal them to a better temper , by avoiding their company , by debarring them of private commerce , by reprehending them publickly , or by some such-like marks of their displeasure : but to thrust them from that sacrament which is of god's institution , when they are minded to come , is more than any church or man has a right to do ; for none can judge of the heart but god alone . it may chance that some sparks of piety and remorse may kindle in a sinners soul , whilst he sits in the assembly ; which it can be no hurt ( nay , may be greatly good ) to cherish , since religion forbids it not . and how can it be ( i would fain ask ) but horrid , absurd , and impious to boot , to turn away any man from publickly and solemnly paying his thanks to god , and commemorating the death of his saviour , when he finds impulses from within to do it , and would fain celebrate it with his fellow-brethren the church , and declares 't is his hearty desire to be and continue a member of it , and that he would give publick testimony that his past life is irksom to himself . appendix . it will not be amiss perhaps , by way of corollary or supplement , to mention the decrees that were made in the year 1523. at the diet at norimberg , by all the layety of the imperial states , and were sent to the bishop of rome : for 't will appear by that , that we are not the first who have started this question , but that the divines began to think of it nigh 46 years since . i am confident no man that is any whit vers'd in the german affairs , can believe or imagine that any such thing should be enacted , but requested by them from the bishop of rome , without the clergies knowing of it . but that the authority may be the more authentick , and the thing clearer , i have been content to compare the german copy which was writ at that diet , with the latine one sent to the pope ( and which matth. flac. illyricus caus'd to be reprinted at basil , 1565. with his book de sectis & dissensionibus papistarum ; ) and upon comparing both , to publish the entire decree or act. therefore among the 100 grievances ( which were fuller express'd at this session at norimberg , than they had two years before at worms ) this following is the 34th . item , many christians at rome , and in other places besides , are by archbishops , bishops , and their ecclesiastical judges , excommunicated for civil causes , and on a temporal account ; whereby many weak consciences are disturb'd , and brought to despair : so that upon a moneyscore , and for the transitory things of this life , and very often , for very trivial causes , are some brought into danger of perishing soul and body too , contrary to the law and command of god , besides the losses they suffer in estates and reputation thereby : whereas no person ought to be excommunicated , or held for such , unless he be convict of heresie , as the holy scripture bears witness . and therefore the lay-states of the empire beseech your pontificial holiness , that as becomes a godly and religious father , you would take away these grievances of excommunication at rome , or in the roman court , and provide that the same be done every where else , by the archbishops , bishops , and other ecclesiastical judges . and lastly , that your holiness would command , that no person be excommunicated , or reputed for such , for any cause whatever , besides the plain and prov'd crime of heresie in matters relating to religion ; for that no person ought to be separated or removed from god and his church , for any temporal cause or otherwise , or for any other humane crime , except infidelity or heresie . to the same purpose is that of joh. stumpias , in his second book of his chronicon helvet . cap. 29. where he says , that the swedish clergy , about the year 1245. ( when henry landgrave of turing , and after his death , william earl of holland , were chosen by the instigation of the pope , in opposition to the emperour frederick the second , and conrade his son ) taught with great constancy , among other things , that never was there such a power granted to mortal man under the sun , to prohibit christians spiritual duties , and the worship of god ; and therefore did they continue to say mass ( says he ) though the pope had interdicted them , and denounced them excommunicate . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a38575-e790 hieronym . upon tit. chap. 1. * see mat. 11. 28. luke 5. 5. joh 4. 6. 1 cor. 4. 12. eph. 4. 28. 1 thess 5. 12. which helps mightily to the explaining this . 1 tim. 5. 17. 1 tim. 4. 10. 1 cor. 15. 58. & alibi . a vindication of foure serious questions of grand importance, concerning excommunication and suspention from the sacrament of the lords supper, from some misprisions and unjust exceptions lately taken against them; both in the pulpit, by a reverend brother of scotland, in a sermon at margarets church in westminster, before the honourable house of commons, at a publike fast there held for scotland, on the 5th of september last: and in the presse, by three new-printed pamphlets, by way of answer to, and censure of them. wherein some scripture texts, (commonly reproduced for excommunication, and bare suspention from the lords supper onely,) are cleared from false glosses, inferences, conclusions wrested from them; ... / by william prynne of lincolns inne, esquire. prynne, william, 1600-1669. this text is an enriched version of the tcp digital transcription a91314 of text r212424 in the english short title catalog (thomason e265_5). textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. the text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with morphadorner. the annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. this text has not been fully proofread approx. 258 kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from 36 1-bit group-iv tiff page images. earlyprint project evanston,il, notre dame, in, st. louis, mo 2017 a91314 wing p4124 thomason e265_5 estc r212424 99871048 99871048 123446 this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons 0 1.0 universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase 1, no. a91314) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set 123446) images scanned from microfilm: (thomason tracts ; 44:e265[5]) a vindication of foure serious questions of grand importance, concerning excommunication and suspention from the sacrament of the lords supper, from some misprisions and unjust exceptions lately taken against them; both in the pulpit, by a reverend brother of scotland, in a sermon at margarets church in westminster, before the honourable house of commons, at a publike fast there held for scotland, on the 5th of september last: and in the presse, by three new-printed pamphlets, by way of answer to, and censure of them. wherein some scripture texts, (commonly reproduced for excommunication, and bare suspention from the lords supper onely,) are cleared from false glosses, inferences, conclusions wrested from them; ... / by william prynne of lincolns inne, esquire. prynne, william, 1600-1669. [10], 60 p. printed for john macock, for michael spark senior., london, : 1645. annotation on thomason copy: "octob: 3d". reproduction of the original in the british library. eng lord's supper -church of scotland -early works to 1800. excommunication -early works to 1800. a91314 r212424 (thomason e265_5). civilwar no a vindication of foure serious questions of grand importance,: concerning excommunication and suspention from the sacrament of the lords su prynne, william 1645 45679 1210 15 0 0 0 0 268 f the rate of 268 defects per 10,000 words puts this text in the f category of texts with 100 or more defects per 10,000 words. 2007-02 tcp assigned for keying and markup 2007-02 apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images 2007-03 emma (leeson) huber sampled and proofread 2007-03 emma (leeson) huber text and markup reviewed and edited 2008-02 pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a vindication of foure serious qvestions of grand importance , concerning excommunication , and suspention from the sacrament of the lords supper , from some misprisions and unjust exceptions lately taken against them ; both in the pulpit , by a reverend brother of scotland , in a sermon at margarets church in westminster , before the honourable house of commons , at a publike fast there held for scotland , on the 5th of september last : and in the presse , by three new-printed pamphlets , by way of answer to , and censure of them . wherein some scripture texts , ( commonly produced for excommunication , and bare suspention from the lords supper onely , ) are cleared from false glosses , inferences , conclusions wrested from them ; the grounds of sole suspention from the sacrament , of unmixt communions , independency , seperation from our churches , sacraments , examined , refuted , subverted ; judas his reception of the lords supper , cleared ; it manifested , to be a converting , as well as a confirming ordinance ; a means to beget , as well as increase grace : with other particulars tending to the advancement of verity , vnity , and the better , speedier settlement of a church-discipline , according to gods word , so much desired . by william prynne of lincolns inne , esquire . 1 thess. 5. 21 , 22. prove all things : hold fast that which is good : abstaine from all appearance of evill . augustin . epist. concilii ad donatistas : & gratian caus. 1. qu. 1. communio malorum non maculat quemquam participatione sacramentorum , sed consentione factorum . london , printed by john macock , for michael spark senior . 1645. to the truely honourable and victorious sir thomas fa●rfax knight , generall of all the forces raised , by the parliament , against the popish and malignant party . most meritoriously honourable , the many late glorious trophies and vnparalel'd successes , wherewith the lord of hosts hath been graciously pleased to crowne your cordiall military vndertakings , to the admiration of all your friends , the astonishment , confusion of all the publike malignant enemies of our churches , kingdomes tranquility ; as they have engaged the parliament , ( with all parts of the realme under their command ) to return publike solemn prayses unto god , for sundry successive victories , over puissant armies in the field , and conquests of divers strong-holds , atcheived by your indefatigable industry , incomparable valour , through gods blessing on them : so it hath specially obliged me , as to render particular thankesgiving unto god , so to tender some small apparent monument of my obligations and gratitude to your selfe , whom god hath highly honoured to all posterity , in making you an happy instrument of redeeming my native country ( sommersetshire ) with the adjacent counties , out of the devouring jawes of the oppressing enemy , and of reviving , recovering our lost dying kingdome even at its lowest ebbe , in a time of greatest need , with so great celerity , so little effusion of english blood on either side ; which i knew not , for the present , how more visibly to expresse , then by presenting your honour with this briefe p●lemicall vindication , in defect of a richer present . it was my great undemerited happinesse , and your generous humility ( at your first arivall in london from the north , to undertake the chiefe command of the parliaments forces ) to stoop so far below your selfe , as to honour me with your voluntary sweet acquaintance and discourse ; which emboldens me to crave this further favour , to dignifie this rude vindication , with your noble acceptation , of so small unpolished a piece ; whose subject matter ( church discipline ) is of so great concernment , that the settlement thereof according to gods word , and the purest times ▪ is one principle end of your and our taking up defensive armes . i shall not be so injurious to the state or you , to interrupt your weighty military affaires , or retard your admirable expeditions with my unseasonable lines . i shall rather become a dayly orator to the lord of hosts , so far to multiply the weekely catalogues of your sucessefull conquests , that you may ere long return to the great counsell and metropolis of our realme in a triumphant chariot , with this honourable victorious motto , engraven in golden characters on your helmet ; this is the generall whom the lord hath honoured to be , next under him , the speedy finisher of our long protracted civil wars ; and happy restorer of our long-desired peace : which is and shall be the prayer of your honours most devoted friend and servant william prynne . to the unprejudiced reader . christian reader : having privately communicated foure short questions concerning excommunication and suspension from the sacrament of the lords supper , to some of my parliament friends , out of a meer cordiall desire to expedite the setling of an ecclesiasticall discipline in our church , according to gods word ; so much desired , and now in agitation in the commons house : i have for this good service ( these questions since growing publike ) been openly censured , traduced both in presse and pulpit , and these my queries have been seemingly refuted , by some well ▪ meaning persons , whose affections are stronger then their arg●me●ts , and misguided zeale more predominant then their knowledge , in the points debated by them , wherein they betray their own ignorance and error , whiles they would censure mine . the first answer to these questions , intituled , an antidote against four dangerous queries ; is such a combination of ignorance , errours , misprisions , and impertinent invectives , as merits rather derision then refutation , and hath been already sufficiently triumphed over in the antidote animadverted ; so as it needs another antidote to preserve it from sodain expiration . the second answer to them , stiled a brotherly and friendly censure ; as it courts my person in the title and epistle with friendly complements , so it wounds and traduces my honest intentions , but in no sort answers my questions ; the censure it self , being the same in substance with the antidote , and as full of grosse errours , mistakes , and injudicious weak replies , as it . the third answer , as it is more large , so more judicious then the other two , and thwarts them both in some particulars , as in that of judas his receiving the lords supper ; and , that ministers , as such , have no authority to keep back any from the sacrament , but have discharged their duties by their premonitions of the danger of unworthy receiving . i have not here answered each of them distinctly ▪ but only taken the quintessence and substance of them all into examination , debating only the most materiall differences between us , and bringing their false mettals to the test of scripture and sound reason ; omitting all their impertinencies , and things of lesser moment , as not deserving any reply . my subitane lucubrations in vindication of these questions from all their misprisions and erronious censures , i here humbly submit to the parliaments publike , and thy private impartiall scr●tinie ; in perusing whereof , i shall only request thee to pursue the apostles canon , a to examine all things by the word , and to hold fast that which is good and true . for my part b i can do nothing against , but for the truth : and though some report c i am their enemy ( yea an enemy to publike reformation ) because i tell them the truth , in these controversal points of church-discipline , in which they have little insight ; yet neither their calumnies on the one hand , nor flatteries on the other , shall ever sway me one hairs-breadth from the truth , either to the right hand , or the left . and although i certainly know , the speaking out of the whole truth in this present controversie will render me odious and distastefull to many of my dear christian friends and brethren in the lord , and draw sharp censures on me : yet because d i was for this cause born & brought into the world , that i might beare witnesse to the truth ; i neither waigh their favours , nor regard their frownes , being resolved whiles i breath on earth , neither for feare , favour , partiality , nor any private interest or relation whatsoever , to do any thing against the truth , but only for it , whatsoever the issue or event thereof shall prove ; be it , veritas odium parit ; or vncharitable constructions , or wresting of my writings point-blank to their sincere intentions , whereof i have had experience in this controversie , especially in two particulars , which i cannot pretermit in silence without some reply thereto . first my antagonists publikely charge me , that i speak untowardly , to the great offence of godly people , against all christs ministers and ecclesiastical rulers , in this conditionall clause , [ if it fall into indiscreet , over-severe , ambitious , passionate , or revengefull hands ] in which i suppose , that ordinarily the hands of ministers & elders of christs church are such , and therfore they ought not to be trusted with such power of suspension and excommunication ; or else that i suppose , some of them may act with such hands , and therefore that all of that calling are to be abridged of that power . to which i answer , that no such uncharitable incoherent inference can any way follow from this clause ; the whole scope of my questions diametrally contradicting it , which tend only to an orderly regular settlement of presbyteriall power in the originall institution of our new presbyteries , not to take from them all ecclesiasticall jurisdiction due by divine right to them , but to confine it within certain definite limits , to prevent all exorbitant abuses of it , into whose hands soever it should fall . there is no man so unskilfull in politicks , but will acknowledge , it is the duty and ought to be the speciall care of lawgivers , in the creation of new iurisdictions , and promulgation of new lawes , to look , not only to present , but future inconveniences which may possibly spring up in after-ages ; and to consider , not what some , or most men are which shall execute such lawes or iurisdictions at present , but what any of them may possibly prove to be in after-times , and thereupon to prescribe set bounds to all alike , and leave nothing meerly arbitrary to any , how good or just soever , to prevent all possible , all probable abuses by any intrusted with such lawes and iurisdictions . and there are none so ignorant of the present condition of our english church & ministery , but must acknowledge , 1. that many of our godly ministers and people are very passionate , indiscreet , and over-rigorous ; having more zeale , then knowledge , or discretion how to manage such a power . 2. that the best and justest men we can select to constitute presbyteries of , if left at large , to an arbitrary kind of proceeding , and not bounded by strict or punctuall lawes and penalties , will be very apt now and then ( through naturall infirmities , and the remainder of corruptions in them ) to abuse or exceed their power , and run into extravagancies to the oppression of the people , of which we have divers experiments in many counties , if the complaints against their committees may be credited , as many of them are too true . 3. that though there be sufficient choice of prudent , discreet , learned , conscientions , upright ministers and christians in and about london , fit to be united into presbyteries , classes , and trusted with ecclesiasticall censures ; yet in most places else throughout our three kingdomes ( except here and there a city or country town ) there are very few , if any such ministers or lay-elders to be found for the present , and none can certainly determine when or where to provide or cull out such for the future . 4. that , let the parliament make the best present choice they can of ministers and lay-elders to execute ecclesiasticall discipline , yet there may and will be a judas among the twelve apostles , at least one or more indiscreet , passionate , ambitious , or spleenatick persons , who upon occasion offered wil be apt to abuse or exceed their power , to the prejudice of others . 5. that into whose hands soever this power shall be put for the present , yet there is not only a meer possibility , but probability too , ( especially if the episcopall or malignant party should at any time prevaile ) that it may hereafter fall into unjust , tyrannicall , oppressing hands , out of which it will hardly be wrested again . 6. that since we intend to settle the self-same ecclesiasticall government and discipline in all three kingdomes , at leastwise throughout our english territories ; there ought to be the self-same rules , bounds , and limits prescribed unto all presbyteries and classes , to regulate their proceedings by , and prevent exorbitances in every of them ; and none of them left more arbitrary then others , lest their proceedings should vary from others . these undeniable principles were the grounds of my supposition so much excepted against , if it fall into indiscreet , over-severe , passionate , or revengefull hands : yea , the true reason why the parliament takes so much deliberation and advice in setling of the intended presbyteriall church-government and discipline , in which more difficulties arise then ordinary capacities are able to apprehend . wherefore for any to inferre from thence , as my antagonists do , that the hands of all the elders and ministers of christs church , are such , and therefore ought not to be trusted with the power of church-censures ; or that all of them are to be abridged of this power , because some of them are such ; is such a malicious and uncharitable perverting both of my words and meaning , as nought but prejudice or malice it selfe could invent . the second charge is of the same strain ; that th●se queries charg● the reverend assembly very unjustly , with falling into extremes ; with affecting a greater lording power over the consciences and priviledges of their christian brethren , then of right belongs unto them . that they , and our new presbyters will proceed as in the papacy and prelacy ; with indiscreet , over-severe , passionate , revengefull hands , &c. whereas they desire nothing but a strict discipline according to the rules of christ , &c. and that they cast many such unjust aspersions upon the assembly . certainly there is not one syllable in these 4 questions from whence any such malignant accusation can be strained : and my former writings to vindicate the reverend assembly ( whom i love and honour with my soule ) from the libellous , venomous , intolerable aspersions cast upon them , in many late seditious schismaticall printed libels , ( published by anabaptists and other sectaries , to defame them , and vilifie all their proceedings ; ) with the grounds in the preceding answer ( which occasioned all the passages unjustly wrested by these uncharitable answerers , to warrant this false charge ) will ( i hope ) sufficiently purge me from these scandalous accusations , and all misinterpretations of my queries , or this vindication of them ; the scope of both being only this , to reduce the power of ministers and presbyteries , in the originall erection of their ecclesiasticall iurisdiction , ( now in agitation in the parliament , ) to as great a conformity to the word of god , and as punctuall certainty in all particulars as possible may be ; and to settle it with such necessary cautions & limitations as may prevent all abuses of it , into whose hands soever it shall be committed either for the present , or in future ages : since a smal error , or admission of a meer arbitrary power in som things in the beginning of this new government , may soon degenerate into a grand inconvenience and grievance in conclusion , which is easier prevented then redressed . thus having fully cleared the sincerity of my own intentions , against these scandalous inferences , i have onely this to adde in the parliaments behalfe ; that the settlement of church-discipline being a matter of great difficulty and concernment , wherein many new doubts and scruples daily arise , requiring much debate , they cannot be justly blamed ( in the middest of their other pressing publike occasions to preserve our kingdomes , themselves and us from eminent ruine ) for proceeding deliberately in this weighty work , which hath taken upthe assembly themselves so many moneths debate , and wherein there are such differences of opinions . many there are , who deny any excommunication at all to be of divine institution , producing sundry strong arguments to justifie their opinions , and answering all objections to the contrary : in maintenance of which opinion , tho. erastus ( a learned physitian ) long since wrote a large volume in latine , intituled , explicatio gravissimae quaestionis de excommunicatione printed an. 1589. who is seconded by many learned men . others , who admit excommunication to be introduced , and exercised in the apostles times , and somwhat after ; yet hold it to be but a temporary ordinance , taken up by christians out of meer necessity , for want of christian magistrates to restrain and punish scandalous sinners ; and altogether uselesse , or seldome or never to be put in execution in such places , churches , where christian magistrates are setled , whose office and duty it is , to punish all obstinate , impenitent , scandalous sinners , with the temporall sword of justice , and to cut off all evil doers from the city of god , psal. 101. 4 , 5 , 6 , 7 , 8. rom. 13. 3 , 4 , 5. without whose assistance church censures will become altogether uselesse , invalid , & contemptible : whence the church hath always been inforced to pray in aid from the secular arme , and civil magistrate , by writs de excommunicato capiendo , and the like , to force obedience and submission to her censures , which else would prove meer bruta fulmina . others , who admit of excommunication , deny suspension from the sacrament of the lords supper , as no divine step or degree to it , nor to be inflicted upon any but persons actually excommunicated from all other ordinances . others who plead most for excommunication and suspention from the lords supper , are yet divided into these circumstances which concern them . 1. who shall inflict those censures ? whether the ministers only ? or the presbytery and classis only ? or the whole congregation ? 2. for what sins and offences ? which is now the grand doubt and debate : whether for incest , and heresie onely , for which they pretend examples of excommunication in scripture ; or for any other sins , for which we finde no pattern of any excommunication or suspension in the word ? 3. in what manner , and by what steps and degrees the presbytery or classis ought to proceed in inflicting these censures ? what remedy shall be given by way of appeal , to the parties grieved ? and , to whom they shall appeal ? 4. how , and by whom such who contemn those censures shall be proceeded against ? how long those censures shall continue , and how and when reversed ? 5. whether excommunicated persons ought to be admitted to hear the word , or to any other ordinance ? and in what sort ; with what publike badges of infamy and distinction , the more to shame themselves , and deter others ? all these , with sundry other difficult controversies arising in the settlement of church-discipline ( in which the very assembly-men are divided in opinion , as well as the members of parliament ) it must needs require much debate and deliberation to settle church-discipline in a due and solid manner . it is a received maxime , approved by prudent men , and god himself ; diu deliberandum quod semel statuendum ; we must deliberate long of that which is to be setled but once . we know that the materiall temple of solomon was neere * twenty yeares in building ▪ though david , solomon , with all the princes and people most cheerfully contributed their best assistance toward it ; and yet it was after * far●onger in re-edifying : and can we then imagine the spiritual temple and church-goverment should be compleatly finished and built up by the parliament in a moneth or two ? how many yeares , i pray you , have our independent brethren been in hammering and compleating their new church-model , long since promised , and yet are not agreed on it , or else afraid , to publish it , lest all should discern its manifold flawes ? ignorant men , altogether unacquainted with the numerous difficultes , intricate disputes which accompany this subject , may deem it an easie busines , soon dispatched : but persons of better judgements , acquainted with the severall controversies in point of divinity and civil policie , which arise about church-discipline , will find it an herculean labour , and a work of time to establish it so , as to answer expectation , satisfie all objections , and stop the mouths of all opposers , which must first be done , or else it will not be imbraced with such alacrity as is fit . wherefore be perswaded to wait a while longer on the parliament for the accomplishment of our longing desires in the setling of church discipline , and pray earnestly to god to steere their hearts and judgements aright in this work of highest concernment to us ; for fear they should now settle any thing in haste , which they and we may hereafter repent of by leisure . with which friendly advice i shall dismisse thee to the perusall of this vindication , which i humbly tender to thy christian acceptation . farewell . a short vindication of foure serious questions of grand importance concerning excommunication and suspension from the sacrament , from some misprisions and exceptions taken against them , both in the presse and pulpit . there is nothing so sincerely intended , so well performed , but is lyable to some mis-interpretations or exceptions in this criticall age , by men of contrary opinions . this hath been the hard fate of these four questions . first , the author of them hath been publikely taxed in print , as an enemy to reformation , and oft stiled a the adversary ( of it , ) when as god who b knowes his heart , and those men who are acquainted with his person and intentions , will acquit him from this calumny , and know him to be as great , as cordiall an advancer of reformation , as any of his accusers . secondly , these foure questions have been conceived and reported to be , a grand obstruction to the work of reformation and settlement of church-discipline , yea purposely published to obstruct it : when as intentionally and really they doe ( by moderating irreconcilable extreames ) tend onely to facilitate and expedite this much desired work ; which he cordially desired might be speedily accomplished , to prevent the dangerous encrease of errours and scismes , which multiply daily in our church . thirdly , they are apprehended to strike at the very root of excommunication , and absolutely to deny it , in case of grosse and scandalous sinnes ; when as it onely tends to remove those sandy foundations whereon some would build it , to prevent and regulate all probable abuses of it in its originall establishment , and confine it to its due bounds , to prevent , as farre as possible might be , al just scandall and prophanation of holy things in the people , and arbitrary government , tyranny , oppression , and lording it over gods ordinances , heritage and mens consciences , in the ministers and presbitery , as the expresse words thereof demonstrate . fourthly , it is conceived , that their principall end was , to deprive presbyteri●s of their due jurisdiction , conferred on them by divine right , when as there is not one sillable in them to that purpose , but onely to regulate their power by gods word , & to controle the arbitrary , tyrannicall usurpations of some ind●pendent ministers , who take upon them an exorbitant jurisdiction , not onely to exclude whom themselves please from the sacrament , without any legall admonition or conviction of ignorance or scandall , but likewise refuse publikely to administer the lords supper to their congregations or parishoners for sundry moneths , nay yeers together , ( yea , to those , against whom they have no just exceptions , and who tender themselves to their examination , desiring to be excluded , if found ignorant or unworthy ) for feare of delivering it to some , whom they ( before conviction ) deeme scandalous or unworthy , as they pretend ; or rather , in good truth , only because they will not joine with them in their new independent ways and covenants . fifthly , it hath been suggested , that it layes a tax ●pon our ministers and intended presbyteries , as if they desired ▪ papall & tyrannicall authoriy over mens consciences ; when as it tends onely to prevent such papall , episcopall abuses of excommunications and su●pensions , which may possibly creep into them by degrees , if not carefully provided against in the originall settlement of their authority , by strict and punctuall lawes ; there being no authority so good , so necessary in church or state , but by reason of their corruptions who manage it , may be abused to tyranny and oppression : ( especially , if not bounded ) and we find by histo●y and experience , that these church censures have bin as grosly abused , as tyrannically managed by rigid anabaptists and seperatists , as popes & prelats , & po●sibly may be so by presbyteries . these prejudices and mis-apprehensions being removed , i shall next proceed to the exceptions against the substance or subject matter of them , wherein to avoyd mistakes , be pleased to observe : first , that it is confessed , yea agreed by the opposites , that excommunication or suspension from the sacrament , is a matter of grand concernment , fit now to be established with as much deliberarion , caution , circumspection and care as possible may be , to prevent prophanation , scandall on the one hand , and arbitrary , papall , tyrannicall domineering over mens consciences , christian liberties , & all abuses of this power , on the other hand ; and that it is a matter of very great difficulty thus to settle it ; & it is as readily yeelded on the other side , that grosse notorious , scandalous , obstinate sinners , who presumptuously persevere in their iniquities after private and publike admonitions , without remorse of conscience or amendment , may be justly excommunicated from the church , the society of the faithfull , and all publike ordinances , after due proofe , and legall conviction of their scandalous lives ; and that 1 cor. 5. 13. warrants thus much , notwithstanding the various readings and interpretations of that text : so that thus farre there is no dissent on either part . secondly , it is accorded on both sides , ( in words at least , though not in practice ) that no minister may 〈◊〉 can in point of power or conscience , refuse to admini●●er the sacrament to any member of his church , not actually excommunicated after sundry admonitions and publike reprehensions for some grosse scandalous crime , who earnestly desires to receive it , in case he publikely professeth his sincere repentance for his sinnes past , and promise amendment of life for time to come , though the ●inister or presbytery in their owne private opinions , may have a hard prejudicate opinion of his unfitnesse , or unworthinesse to receive it . these agreements on both sides premised , which will in a manner determine the greatest controversie , and rectifie the mistakes between us ; i proceed to the matters in difference ; which are these : first , whether there he any precept or president in scripture , for the suspending of any member of a particular church or congregation , from the sacrament of the lords supper only , who is not at the same time excommunicated and utterly sequestred from the church , the society of the faithfull , and all other publike ordinances there used , as prayer , preaching , fasting , catechizing , singing of psalmes , and the like ? and whether the d texts of the old or new testament , quoted in the first question , and in the margin here , warrant any such partiall excommunication or suspension from the lords table , but not from preaching the word , and other publike ordinances ? this i positively deny , from the pregnancy and words of these texts of scripture , backed by the judgement and practice of antiquity in the purest times , as i shall prove at large anon : neither hath the author of the antidote against four dangerous questions ▪ nor the reverend preacher in his sermon at st. margarets before the commons house ( who undertook to refute them ) produced one dram of scripture or solid reason to refute it , the latter not so much as taking notice of this question ( the onely thing there controverted ) but utterly mistaking it , whiles he charged the questionist with mistakes . secondly , whether matth. 18. 16 , 17. if thy brother trespasse against thee , &c. tell it to the church , &c. be properly meant of excommunication of suspension from the sacrament ? the opposites affirme ; i deny it . the only reason they have rendred in presse or pulpit , why this text should and must be intended of a sentence of excommunication given by the church , is , because the text saith , let him be to thee as an heathen man and a publican ▪ that is , as one quite cast out of the church , which must be only by excomunication , whereby men are cast out of it ; no private christian ( as they affirme ) having any authority to esteem his brother , as a heathen and publican , if the church hath not first cast him out ; for then he may esteem one man of the congregation thus , and after that another , and so all the membets of it , and at last , the whole church by degrees , by his owne authority ; which to doe , say they , is a great absurdity , sinne and inconvenience : but this reason ( under correction ) is very infirme , inconcludent , if not false and absurd : for first , heathens were no excommunicate persons , being never members of the jewish or christian church , and therefore uncapable of any excomunication out of it : excomunication being peculiar only to church-members , as st. paul expresly determines , 1 cor. 5 ▪ 10 , 11 , 12. and aretius in his definition of excomunication , cited in the first question : and as for publicans , if they were not heathens but jews ( as e some of them were ) we never find them excommunicated from any of gods ordinan●es , as they were publicans , but partakers of them ; to make then an excommunicate person , and an heathen , a publican , synonimaes , is at best an incongruity , if not a contradictiō . secōdly , the genuine sense of this expression ( not elswhere used in scripture , and f no forme at all of any excomuni●ation practised by the jewes ) let him be to thee a heathen and a publican , in the judgment of the best interpreters , is no more but this ; keepe not any familiar company , or have no civill fellowship with him , but avoyd his company and fellowship , as paul expresly interprets it elswhere , 1 cor. 5. 10 , 11 , 12. 2 thes. 3. 14. eph. 5. 11. rom. 16. 17. or receive him not into thy house , neither bid him god speed , as st. john renders it , 2 john 10. which phrase was derived from the practice of the jewes and pharises in that age , who shunned the very company of heathens and publicans ; not in publike ordinances or sacraments ( in which heathens certainly had no communion or society with them , being no members of their church ) but only in civill conversation ; whereupon they taxed christ , for keeping compauy with publicans and sinners , mat. 9. 10 , 11. ch. 11. 19. ch. 21. 31. 32. mark 2. 15 , 16. luke 18. 11 , 12 , 13. ch. 15. 1 , 2. though some of them beleevee on , and received him , when the scribes and pharises ( who disdained their company ) did reject him , luke 7. 29. ch. 15. 2 , 2 , 3. ch. 19. 2. to 12. mat. 21. 31 , 32. and as the jewes then avoyded all civill familiar society with publicans g whom they generally hated for their covetousnesse and extortion ) so also with heathens , with whom they might not inter marry nor familiarly converse , deut. 7. 2 , 4. josh. 24. 12 , 13 , neh. 13. 27. to 31. ezr. ch. 9. & 10. ps. 116. 34 , 35. act. 21. 28 , 29. whence we read , the jewes had no dealing or conversation with the samaritans , john 4 ▪ 9 nor they with the jewes , luke 9. 52 , 53. if then , let him be to thee as a heathen and a publican , be no more then , keep not civill company , fellowship , or familiar conversation with him , who obstinately trespasseth against thee , after private admonition and publike complaint ; or avoid intimate familiarity with him ; then every christian hath free power by gods word to do this , without any danger of sin or scandall , before any private or publike censure of excommuncation passed against him by the church , as is cleer by 1 cor. 5. 9. 11. 2 thes. 3. 14. rom. 16. 17. pro. 22. 24 , 25. ps. 101. 4 , 5 , 7. 2 tim. 3. 2 , 3 , 4 , 5. 2 john 10. 11. therefore by the self-same reason may he avoid the company of any other brother , or the members of an whole particular congregation severally , without sin or guilt , if he or they continue impenitent , in the case of private injuries or trespasses against him after admonition ; wherefore this answer of theirs is both erronious and impertinent . now that this text of matthew ( so mvch insisted on ) is not meant of excommunication or church-censures ; and that the h church in this text was not any ecclesiastical consistory , but only the i sa●hedrim , or court of civil justice among the jews ( commonly called the councel in other texts ) is apparent to me for these ensuing reasons , never yet answerd by the opposites . first , because it speaks not at all of any publike scandalous sin against the church or congregation , the proper object of church-censurs , but onely of pr●vate civill trespasses betweene man and man , as is evident by the words , if thy brother trespasse against thee , goe and tell him his fault between him and thee , &c. which saint luke relating without any die ecclesi● , luke 17. 3 , 4. puts out of question , if compared with gen. 52. 31. 1 sam. 25. 28. now the puni●hment of such trespasses belonged properly to their temporall magistrates , not to their ecclesiasticall consistory , as the 1 sam. 2. 29. deut. 10. 16 , 18 , 19 , 20. ch. 25. 1 , 2. 2 chron. 19. 9. 6. exod. 21. 6. 22. chap. 22. 8 , 9. prove : secondly , because the following words , ver. 16. if he refuse to heare thee , take with the● one or two more , that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established ; relate onely to the manner of trying civill capitall crimes , ( as murthers and the like ) before the civill magistrates of the jewes , which was by two or three witnesses , num. 25. 30. deut. 17. 6 , 7. chap. 19. 5 , 6. not to any proceedings in ecclesiastical causes , in their ecclesiastical cōsistories , of which we find no president . thirdly , because tell it to the church , the assembly , or congregation , in the 17. verse , is not meant of any presbyteritall or ecclesiasticall classis , which had cognizance of private trespasses , there being no such among the jewes , but only of the * civill court of justice , which the scripture commonly cals the councell , which had power ( which no meer ecclesiasticall consistory can doe ) to scourge , imprison ▪ torture and outlaw offenders , if not to condemn● , put to death , but not properly to excommunicate them , matth. 5. 22. chap. 10. 17. c. 5. 26 , 27 , 59. 60. chap. 27. 1 , 2. marke 13. 9. acts 4. 3. to 22. chap. 5. 17. to 40. chap. 6. 12 , 13 , 14 , 15. chap. 25. 15. to 29. chap. 24. 20. fourthly , because he addes , if he will not heare the church , what then ? not , let the church excommunicate or suspend him from the sacrament , or put him out of the sinagogue , or cast him out from them , or deliver him to satan , or denounce an anathema maranatha against him , or cut him off from his people ( the onely phrases in other texts alleaged for proof of excommunication ) but , l●t him be as an heathen man and a p●blican ( a phrase never used elswhere in scripture ; ) which cannot properly signifie excommunication , because heathen men being never members of the church , could never be excommunicated or cast out of it , being un capable of such a censure : as for publicans those of them who were members of the jewes church , though they were execrable to the jewes , by reason of the●r tax-gathering and oppressions , yet we never read in scripture that they w●re excommunicated or cast out of their sinagogues , but contrarily , that they went up into the temple to pray as well as the pharises , and were more acceptable to christ himselfe ( who never excommunicated , but received and conversed with them ) then the proud pharises were , luke 18. 11. to 15. ch. 3. 12. chap. 7. 29. chap. 5. 27. 28 , 29. chap. 15. 1 , 2. chap. 19. 2 , &c. mark 9. 11 , 12. matth. 10. 3. marke 2. 15 , 16. therefore these expressions can no wayes warrant or imply any excommnnication or suspension from the sacrament . fifthly , the words runne onely , let him be to thee as a heathe● man and a publican ( not to the whole church , and all others professing religion , which might have intimated something in behalfe of the opposites ; ) and therefore ●o ground excommunication from the church , or suspension from the sacrament on this text ( which the papists and others have very much abused ) is to extract water out of a flint , and palpably to wrest the scripture from its genuine sense . object . and whereas some object , that the n●xt ensuing words , verse 18. ( verily i say unto you , what soever ye shall bind on earth , shall be bound in heaven , &c. ) doe necessarily infer the preceding words to relate to ecclesiasticall censures , and the power of the keyes ( as they phrase it . ) answ. i answer , first , that these words have no coherence with , or dependence on the former , but are a distinct sentence of themselves , because spoken onely to , and of christs disciples , as is evident by the parall●l text of john 20. 23. not of the jewish church , much lesse of their councell or sanhedrim , meant onely by the church in the former verse , as is already cleared . secondly , the this binding and loosing is not meant of excommunication or suspension from the sacrament ( as some would fancy it ) but onely of binding and loosing mens finnes , by preaching the gospell , and denouncing pardon or remission of sinnes and salvation to penitent and beleeving sinners ; but judgement and damnation to obstinate , impenitent sinners , as is evident by comparing it with matth. 16. 19. marke 16. 16. john 3. 16 , 17 , 18 , 36. chap. 12. 48. luke 13. 3. 5. rom. 2. 16. acts 2. 38. chap. 3. 19. therefore some clearer text then this must be produced , to found excommunication or suspension from the sacrament , and ecclesiasticall discipline upon , by those who contend for it jure divin● . thirdly , whether 1 cor. 5. 5. to deliver such a one to satan for the destruction of the flesh , that his spirit may be saved in the day of the lord jesus ▪ and 1 tim. 1. 20. whom i have delivered unto satan ▪ that they may learn not to blaspheame , be properly meant of excommunication or suspension from the sacrament ? some of our opposites peremptorily affirme it , but produce no shadow of proofe for it ; others speak dubiously of these texts , as needing a large debate , and therefore prudently wave them with a rhetoricall preterition , as the late reverend preacher did : i for my part humbly conceive , that to deliver to satan , is a thing somewhat different from excommunication and suspension from the lords table : my reasons are these : first , if to deliver a man to satan , be the self-same thing with excommunication , or suspension from the sacrament , as some affirme , then every excommunicated or suspended person , should ▪ during his excommunication or suspension , either in a literall , or sprituall sense at least , be in their judgement , in the actual power of satan , though a true child of god , whom e christ himself hath rescued out of the jawes and pawes of satan ; since such a one may be actually excommunicated , suspended from the lords table for a season , not onely injuriously , but upon just grounds , and yet not inthe devils actuall power or possession , but in christs , john 10. 28 , 29. secondly , if to deliver unto satan , were the same with excommunication , then it would have some proportion and coincidency with other scripture phrases produced for proofe of excommunication ▪ ( as put away from among you that wicked person , and the like forecited ) with which it hath no 〈◊〉 . thirdly , our opposites generally grant f that excommunication belongs onely to the presbytery or whole congregation , not to any one particular person , be he bishop , minister , or other ; whereas paul himselfe deliv●●ed hymeneus and phyletus unto satan , as the words ( whom i have delivered , &c. ) import , without the concurrence of any other . fourthly , many members of the visible church are spiritually under the g ●ower of satan , and taken captives of him at his will , though still within the church , and not actually excommunicated ; therefore to deliver men over thus to satan , and no more , cannot be properly tearmed excommunication . fifthly , nor can it be meant meerly of suspending people from the sacrament ; for then children and others debarred from the sacrament , by reason of their nonage , or any other naturall dis-abilities , should be as much delivered over to satan as any scandalous persons . what this delivering of men over to satan is , hath been much controverted among divines : many who take it to be meant of excommunication , and an act of discipline established then in the church for all future ages , interpret it to be , not onely a casting of a man out of the church h wherein christ reigns , into the world of ungodly men , among whom satan rules ; but likewise to give a man over to be guided in his spirit by the word & spirit of satan , as the church and those within it are led , guided by the word and spirit of god ▪ explaining it by ephes. 2. 2 , 3. 2 tim. 2. 26. john 14. 30. john . 8. 44 ▪ 1 john 3. 8. but this exposition seems to me both false and improper : first , because these scandalous sinners , even whiles they were in the church , were i led and acted by the spiret of satan , in committing those scandalous sinnes , for which they were excommunicated ; and therefore their excommunication cannot thus deliver them over unto satan , who tooke them captive at his will , but leaves them in his hands in the same condition as before . secondly , such a delivery unto satan , as this , to be guided , acted in their spirits by him and no more , tends nothing at all to the destruction of the flesh , but rather to the pampering of it , much lesse to the reforming of the life , or the saving of the spirit in the day of the lord jesus , but rather to aggravate and encrease mens sinnes . thirdly , it 's confessed , that a godly man may for some notorious sinnes or scandals , be actually excommunicated , as well as other wicked persons ; now such a one god never k gives over to be led and ruled by the unclean spirit of satan , but he always leads them by his own holy spirit , which ever dwels and rules within their soules , and is never dis-possessed by the devill . fourthly , all accord , that the end and use of excommunication , is onely to reforme or amend mens lives , and turn them from the power of satan unto god : and is not this diametrally contrary to that end , to deliver them over to the very conduct and guidance of satan , who l rules only in the children of disobedience , precipitates them into all sinful courses with a ful c●●●re , and is so farre from learning men not to blaspheme , that he fils their hearts and mouthes with naught but lyes and blasphemies ? this interpretation therefore i cannot approve ; neither doe i read or beleeve that any presbytery or church hath or doth claime any authority in these dayes to deliver any man to satan ; wherefore , to deliver a man unto satan , i rather cōceive to be meant in two other senses more agreeable both to the letter and scope of these texts , and the interpretation of the fathers on them . the first is , either to deliver up a man corporally , by way of punishment , into the actuall possession of the devill , onely in respect of his body , not soule , so as the devill thereby might actually possesse , macerate , torment and afflict his flesh ( as he m used to vex those whom he did corporally possesse , which the scripture plentifully manifests ) till he were sufficiently punished , and then be dispossessed of the devill againe by those who delivered him into his power , and restored to the bosome of the church ; the apostles and others n in their age , having a power , not onely to cast out and dispossesse men of devils , but likewise to deliver men up by way of punishment to o be corporally possessed by the devill : which ( as i conceive ) was the ground of that common imprecation , ( too frequent in lewd mens mouthes , when they are injured or provoked by any man ; ) the devill take you , or , tradatur satan● . this kind of delivering men over to satan was peculiar onely to the apostles , and some others in that age , but ceased since , and so cannot be drawne into practice among us ; a godly christian by way of punishment may be for a season thus delivered unto satan , for the mortifying or destruction of his flesh and carnall corruptions , and yet still continue a true child of god in respect of his soule and spirit , p which the holy ghost doth alwayes possesse , though the devill possesse his body ( as he had possession of christs body , though not of his soule and spirit , when * he led him into the wildernesse to be tempted , and carried him from place to place . ) and this i take to be one genuine sense and scope of these two texts . secondly , there is another sort of delivering men up to satan , somewhat different from the former , which suits very well with the words and sense of these scriptures ; and that is , when a man by gods immediate permission is delivered unto satan to be tortured , afflicted and vexed by him ; either in his body , by sicknesses , botches , diseases ; or in his mind , by cares , feares , perplexplexities and discontents ; or in his estate and family , by losses and crosses of all sorts , as q job was , of purpose to mortifie his flesh and carnall members , to humble his soule and bodie before god , that his spirit may be saved in the day of the lord , his sinfull life reformed , and he hereby lessoned , no more to blaspheme or dishonour god : in this sense god many times delivers over his children ( as he did job ) into their adversary , satans hands , to scowre away all their drosse , and crucifie their old man , the flesh , with the affections and lusts thereof , without giving their hearts and spirits into his power , which he still reserves intirely to himselfe , as he did lob's ; and theirs whom the devill cast into prison , and into tribulation for ten dayes , that they might be purifid , and have their robes of corruption washed quite away , and made white in the blood of the lamb , revel. 2. 10. chap. 7. 14. and in this sense ( no doubt ) the apostles by gods permission , had power to deliver men over to satan , ( one of whose r messengers paul had sent to buffet and humble him , least he should be exalted above his due measure ▪ ) for the destruction of the flesh . but how farre the church or ministers of god have any authority at this day actually to deliver any scandalous persons thus to satan ( unlesse it be by way of prayer or option ) i submit to others , who now claime this power , to determine : however , in these two last senses ( which i conceive most genuine ) these texts are no solid proofes at all , either of excommunication from the church , or suspension from the sacrament ; since a christian may be delivered over to satan in both these senses , and yet not actually excommnicated or suspended from the sacrament . the fourth difference is this , whether 1 cor. 5. 11. if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator , or cov●tous , or an idolater , or a railer , or a drunkard , or an extortioner , with such a one no not to eat ; be properly meant of excommunication or suspension from the sacrament , or not to eat with such at the lords table upon any tearmes ? some opposites confidently averre ; others , with my selfe deny it ; and that upon these grounds : first , because there is not one sillable of receiving the lords supper , or eating at the lords table spoken of in this chapter ; and in the 10. and 11. chapters , where the apostle professedly treats of the lords supper , and receiving that sacrament , he speakes not one word of secluding any members of the church , or christians from it , but onely exhorts men carefully to examine themselves before they come to receive it , least they eat and drink their owne damnation , become guilty of the body and blood of the lord , and draw downe sicknesses and diseases upon themselves ; affirming expresly , ch. 10. ver. 16 , 17. the bread which we breake , is it not the communion of the body of christ ? for we being many , are one bread and one body ; for ▪ we are all partakers of that one bread : if all ▪ were then partakers of this bread , certainly none were excluded from it in the church of corinth ; but as the israelites under the law , did all eat the same spirituall meat , and all drink the same spirti●all drinke , though ▪ god were displeased with many of them , who were idolaters , tempters of god , fornicators , murmurers , and were destroyed in the wildernesse , 1 cor. 10. 1. to 12. so all under the gospell who were visible members of the church of corinth , did eat and drink the lords supper , to which some drunkards whiles drunken did then resort , as is cleere by the 1 cor. 11. 20 , 21. which paul indeed reprehends , verse 22. therefore this , with such a one no not to eat , cannot be meant of excommunication or suspension from the sacrameut . secondly , if we look upon the catalogue of those with whom the corinthians were forbidden so much as to eat , we shall find railers , covetous persons , and extortioners therein mentioned , as well as idolaters , fornicators , drunkards ; and if all such must be excommunicated or suspended the sacrament , what will become of most of our anabaptisticall and independent congregations , who are generally knowne to abound more with covetous persons , extortioners , railers , then our parochiall or presbyteriall congregations do with idolaters , fornicators , drunkards ? i ▪ feare their independent conventicles and chamber congregations will be dissolved for want of members , of ministers , and their lords ▪ tables be left empty without guests , if all railers , covetous persons and extortioners were excommunicated out of them , and this their pretended discipline put into exact execution ; yea , i fear , too many presbyterian ministers , elders , who would be very active in excommunicating , suspending others from the sacrament for fornication , idolatry , drunkennesse , must themselves be first excommunicated from the lords table for their owne covetousnesse ; wherefore s let such pull that beame out of their owne eye , before they passe the sentence of excommunication and suspension for the m●tes they spye in their brother's eye ; and this would much moderate their severity towards others , if not make them disclaime this text to be ment of those ecclesiasticall censures , which would light first and heaviest on themselves . thirdly , it is as cleere as the noon-day sunne , that , no not ▪ to eat , in this text , is no more , then not to keep company , or hold civill familiarity with such : first , by verse 10 , 11. i wrote to you in an epistle , not to keepe company with fornicators , &c. yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world , &c. for then ye must goe out of the world ; ( as those must doe who would have unmixt churches and communions without any putred members : ) but now have i written unto you , not to keep company : if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator , &c. with such a one no not to eat : by which it is most cleer , that , no not to eat with such , is nothing else , but * not to keep company , or converse familiarly with them , it being here twice together thus interpreted in the preceding words : and that it cannot be meant of eating with them at the lords table , is most cleere ; because this inhibition extends it selfe , ( though not in the same strictnesse , ) to fornicators , idolaters , covetous persons , &c. that are infidels and without the church , as well as to him that is called a brother , and within the church , as is evident by verse 10 , 11 , 12 , 13 ▪ compared together : therefore it must of necessity be meant of civill conversation with them , of which eating together with others , and sitting with them at our , or their tables , is one principall branch ▪ being one of the highest expressions of outward friendship and familiarity , as is evident by gen. 43. 16 , 17. 32 , 33 , 34. 2 sam. 12. 28. 33. 2 kings 2. 7. psal. 41. 9. john 13. 18. and disdaining to eat with one , the greatest token of estrangednesse , or want of familiarity one with another , gen. 43. 32. compared with john 4. 7 , 8 , 9. secondly , this is further confirmed by these parallel texts of rom. 16. 17. eph. 5. 7. 12. 2 ▪ thes. 3. 14. tit. 3. 10. 2 john 10. 2 tim. 3. 10. which interpret , no not to eat here , by these phrases , of avoyding them , turning away from and rejecting them , not to keep company or have fellowship with them , nor to welcome the● into our houses ; neither of which amounts to an excommunication or suspension , which are judiciall acts of the whole church or presbytery , after legall proofe and conviction : whereas these acts of not eating , avoiding , or not keeping company , &c. are all onely morall or prudentiall acts of particular christians , or voluntary negative actions , not positive , judiciall , publike church censures . object . but our opposites object , that though this text be not directly meant of excommunication or suspension from the sacrament , yet it warrants such mens suspension from tht lords supper by necessary consequence : for if we may not so much as eat and drinke with raylers , drunkards , covetous persons , &c. at our owne , their , or other mens tables , much lesse may we doe it at the lords table . answ. i answer , that the argument is meerly sophisticall , fallacious , and not properly any formal argument from the lesse to the greater , because itvaries in the kind of eating ; the one being civill , the other spirituall ; the one private in ones own house , or anothers , where he hath absolute freedome or liberty to eat , or not to eat with another ; the other pulik in the church , where he hath a divine command , necessitating him to communicate with others of that congregation , in the sacrament , as well as in other ordinances . every argument from the lesse to the greater that is conclusive , must have sundry qualifications to make it solid : i will instance but in three . first , it must be in the same kind of action ; secondly , it must fall under the same precept ; thirdly , it must be within the compasse of the same power : if either of these faile , the argument is a meere inconsequent . for instance , this is a solid argument ; men ought to abstaine from the smallest sinnes ; ergo , much more from the greatest sins ; because this holds still to the same kind [ sinne ] and abstaining from the greatest sins , fals under the same precept which forbids the least ; so this is a firme argument ; he that can make a little watch or ball can likewise make one somewhat greater , because it in the same kind of manufacture , and both of them within the virge of the artificers skil : but on the contrary , these inferences are unsound and inconcludent : a man must not keep company with an angry man , prov. 22. 24. ergo , he must not joyne with him in any publike ordinances or acts of gods worship ; or , a man must not sweare vainly by the name of god , which is the lesse ; ergo , he must not swear solemnly before a magistrate , which is the the greater ; because there is in these , a variation in the kind , occasion and manner of swearing ; so , it is unlawfull for any christian to recompence evill for evill in the least kind , nor to avenge himselfe for the least wrong , rom. 12. 17. 19. therefore it is unlawfull for any christian magistrate to recompence evill for evill , or inflict the highest degree of vengeance on malefactors , even death and capitall punishments ; is a meet nonsequitur ; because this publike revenge by way of justice , fals not under the same precept with privat reveng : so , such a workman is able to make a boat or ditch , which is the lesse ; ergo , he is able to build a ship or fort , which is the greater , is an inconsequent , because they fal not under the self-same degree of art & ability : to apply this to the objected text ; not eating with scandalous persons at meales in private , differs in manner , kind from eating with them at the lords table in publike ; they fal not both under the self-same precept ; and we have free power not to eat bread with those at our own tables , with whom we have no power or liberty left us by christ , to refuse to eat with them at the lords table : therefore this argument , in point of logicke and divinity , is as infirme and absurd , as any of the former : yet how many thousands , as well schollers as ignorants , have been over-reached with it , so far as to make them separate , not onely from our sacraments but congregations too ? now because thi● grosse , fallacious inconsequence in my apprehension , is one principle cause and prop of independency , yea of separation from our churches , sacraments , and hath misled so many , especally of later yeers , i shall a little further examine it , with relation to the text on which it is grounded , and further lay open both the falsenesse and absurdity thereof , to all mens jndgements and consciences . first , it is cleere , that this text is ment onely of civill conversation , eating and drinking , not of spiritual , as i have already proved : i would then demand these two questions of the objectors : first , whether this text prohibits all kind of civill communion , and eating at table with any christians who are raylers , fornicators , idolaters , covetous persons , extortioners or drunkards , under paine of mortall sinne ? if yea ; then it is a damnable sinne in the objectors to eat , drink , or converse in any kind with any such as these , which they daily doe without any scruple , and cannot avoyd ; yea , then it would be a sin against this text , for a wife , child , kinsman , master , magistrate , prince , constantly to convers or eat with such a scandalous husband , parent , kinsman , servant , neighbour , pastor , fellowservant , subject , or they reciprocally with them , if scandalous ; then if any member of the parliament , or of any corporation , colledge , innes of court , or the like , should but eat together at meales with his fellow-members who are thus scandalous , in any common-hall , or at any ordinary or corporation-feast , they should sin against this text , which i never yet heard any anabaptist , separatist , independent , presbyter , or divine affirm ; neither of which make any conscience of not repairing to the lord majors , or any other publike city-feast , where they are sure of good fare , because they were certaine there to meet and eat with some covetous , or other scandalous persons ; with whom saint paul prohibits them , no not to eat : which precept christ himselfe and his apostles should have transgressed , in eating and drinking with publicans and sinners , for which they were [ s ] taxed by the over-precise pharises . if then this text extends not to oureating at meales with such scandalous christians in cases of necessity & expediency , where either our natural , civill relations , or cōmon civility engage us to it , so as we delight not intheir company , or do it notvoluntarily out of free choice , when we may avoid it without offence , as the very objectors , i suppose , wil grant , and s. paul resolves , ver. 11. then by the self-same reason , it can be no offence at all against this scripture , to eat or drink with such at the lords table , at this his publike feast and great supper , to which all christians are invted ( if we beleeve christs owne parable , mat. 22. 1. to 15. & isa. 55. 1. rev. 22. 17. ) in such cases wherein we may lawfully eat & drink with them at our own , theirs , or other mens tables . secondly , our objectors themselves affirme , that it is lawful to hear , pray , read the scriptures , ●ing psalmes , repeat sermons , fast and performe all other christian duties in the company of such scandalous christians as are here particularized , without any violation of this text : if then we may keep company or hold communion with them , and they with us in all other ordinances , till they be actually and judicially excommunicated from the church and them ; then why not likewise in the lords supper too ? since this text and all others cited for proofe of excommunication or suspension by our opposites , prohibit communion in them al alike , or els in none . thirdly , admit ministers themselves be polluted with any of those vices , suppose with covetousnesse , ( as too many are , ) yet none of the objectors dare averre , that it is a sinne against this precept , for any of their congregations to receive the sacrament from , or eat the lords supper with them , no more then to joyne with them in prayer , fasting , or to heare them read , preach , catechize , expound , or sing psalmes together with them ; since the goodnesse or viciousnesse of the minister ( as t all accord ) doth neither adde ought to , nor detract any thing from the efficacy of the sacraments , or any publike ordinances , which proceeds from god alone : if then we may receive the sacrament from , and eat it with a covetous minister without any sin or contradiction to this text , then why not likewise with a covetous neighbour or fellow-parishioner ? fourthly , the objectors grant , that a christian may lawfully receive the sacrament with persons secretly guilty of these and other grosse sinnes , with close hypocrits , who guild over their vices ; and unregenerate christians not really sanctified , who are neither ignorant nor notoriously scandalous in their lives , without scruple or offence against this text . therefore they may lawfully doe it in point of conscience with such who are notoriously scandalous , before their actuall conviction & excommunication , especially if they professe sincere repentance for their sins past , and reformation of their lives for time to come ; as all do , at least in their general confessions before the sacrament , if not in their own private meditations , prayers & preparatory devotions twixt god and their owne soules . fifthly , it is not the meere guilt , but onely the scandall , ill example , and contagion of notorious sinnes that subjects men to the censure of excommunication , in regard of others , least they should infect and draw them on to imitation of them , as paul resolves , 1 cor. 5. 6. else those very sins which are not notorious , and those infirmities , of which the best saints themselves are frequently guilty , should subject them unto excommunication , or suspend them from the sacrament ; and then what mortall man almost should be admitted to it ? it is not then such sinners bare receiving with us , or ours with them , that can any way hurt , much lesse deter or keep us from the sacram●nt , ( for they eat and drink damnation onely to themselves , not others ) in case we imitate them not in their sinnes , or receive no contagion from their company . sixtly , the objectors will grant , that there is a necessity lyes upon ministers to administer , and on people to receive the sacrament at all convenient seasons : that god onely infallibly knowes the hearts and reall preparations of all communicants , in the very best of whom there are many failing and corruptions , which make them in themselves unworthy to communicate : that all who come to receive , doe alwayes make a generall and joynt confession of their sins before god and the congregation , acknowledging and bewayling their manifold sinnes and iniquities , which they from time to time have committed in thought , word and deed , against the divine majesty ; professing , that they doe earnestly repent , and are heartily sorry for all their misdoings , that the remembrance of them is grievous unto them , the burthen of them intolerable ; desiring god to have mercy upon them for his sonne christ jesus sake , and to for●er all that is past , and grant , that they may ever after serve and please him in newnesse of life : offering up themselves , soules and bodyes to be a holy and li●ing sacrifice acceptable unto god through jesus christ : yea , i dare presume , there is no receiver so desperate , that dares professe when he comes to receive , he is not heartily sorow for his sinnes past , but resolvs to persevere impenitently in them for the future , though afterward he relapse into them ( as the be● saints do to their old infirmities ) because his heart nature are not truly regenerated by gods spirit : all this being granted , no minister ought to refuse the sacrament to such an external penitent sinner ( the sincerity of whose heart and repentance , god onely knows ) nor may or ought any christian to abstaine from communicating with him at it , in case he be not actually excommunicated , or not re-admitted to the church for his prophane , scandalous life , since they have no warrant from this or any other scripture else to doe it . all which , if seriously pondered , by separatists and independents , misled by the objected inference , would speedily reduce them to the bosome of our church , and quite allay the heat of the present controversies about suspension from the sacrament , in which many now place the very kingdome of christ , who never claimed nor exercised such a soveraignty as they , under his name and title , would usurp unto themselves . the fifth thing in difference is , whether the priests under the law had divine authority to keepe backe any circumcised person from the passeover , who desired to eat it , for any reall or pretended ignorance , heresie , or scandalous sinne ? my opposites affirme they had ; for proofe whereof they produce num. 9. 1. to 12. where the israelites being commanded to eat the pasover on the fourteenth day of the first moneth at evening , there were certaine men defiled by the dead body of man , that they could not keep the passeover on that day ; and they came before moses and aaron on that day , and said unto moses , we are de●iled by the dead body of man ; wherefore are we kept backe , that we may not offer an offering to the lord in his appointed season among the children of israel ? and moses said unto them , stand still , and i will heare what the lord will command concerning you : and the lord spake unto moses saying , speak unto the children of israel , saying ; if any man of you or your posterity shall be uncleane by reason of a dead body , or in a journey a farre off , he shall keep the passeover unto the lord , the fourteeenth day of the second moneth they shall keep it , and eat it . by which it is cleere , that legall uncleannesse did dis-able them to eat the passover at the appointed time ; therefore much more scandalous sinnes and spirituall uncleannesse did dis-able and keep them from it , and by consequence they doe likewise debar men from the lords supper now , of which the passeover was a type ; yea , our reverend scottish brother in his controversall fast-sermon , added , that no man might bring a trespasse offering to the lord , to expiate any particular sin he was guilty of , unlesse he did first confesse he had sined in that thing , levit. 5. 5 , 6. therefore said he , a fortiori , he could not be admitted unto the pasover ( nor any now unto the lords table ) unlesse he first particularly and publikely confessed the sinnes he stood guilty of . to this i answer , first , that all circumcised persons whatsoever , had a right to eat the passeover , and participate of all the ordinances under the law , from which the priests had no power to exclude them for ignorance , or any scandalous offence , for ought appeares by any scripture-precept or president : all of them under pain of being cut off from their people , being bound to eat the passeover in its season , except in cases of necessity , disability , by reason of a journey , or of legall uncleannesse onely , ( not spirituall ) as is cleere by exod. 12. 3. 43. to 50. num. 9. 1. to 15. deut. 16. 16 , 17. ezra 6. 19 , 20 , 21. 2 kings 23. 21 , 22. 2 chron. 35. 6 , 7 , 13 , 17 , 18. where we read , that all the people and all the males that were present received the pasover , not one of them being excluded from eating it . this is most evident by that noted place of 2 chro. 30. 3. to 21. where king hezekiah proclaiming a solemn● pasover , summoned all israel , and all the people , from dan to beersheba , to repaire to it ; whereupon there assembled much people to jerusalem to keep it : now there were many in the congregation that were not clean nor sanctified ▪ for a multitude of the people had not cleansed themselves ( from their legall pollutions ) yet did they eat the passover , ( neither hezekiah nor the priests prohibiting them to eat it ) otherwise then it was written ; but hezekiah prayed for them saying , the good god pardon every one that prepareth his heart to seeke god , the lord god of his fathers , though he be not cleansed according to the purification of the sanctuary : and the lord hearkned t● hezekiah and healed the people . here legall uncleannesse did not actually suspend them from the passover , when their hearts were upright , and they desirous to eat it , the lord at hezekiah's prayer passing by their unpreparations and accepting their devotions in this act ; nor yet did spirituall pollution , by reason of grosse and scandalous sinnes , debar them that were circumcized , from the passeover , as paul expresly determines , 1 cor. 10. 1. to 10. ( an unanswerable text to this purpose ) moreover brethren , i would not that ye should be ignorant , that all our fathers were under the cloud , and all passed through the sea , and were all baptiz●d unto moses in the cloud and in the sea ; and did all eat the same spirituall meat ( to wit , the passeover and manna ) and did all drink of the same spirituall drink for they drank of the rock that followed them , and that rock was christ : but perchance all these communicants were visible saints , free from any legall pollution , at least not tainted with any scandalous sinne : the apostle to take off this evasion , subjoynes in the very next words , but with many of them god was not well pleased , for they were overthrowne in the wildernesse : no● these things were our examples , to the intent we should not lust after evill things , 〈◊〉 they also lusted ; neither be ye idolaters as were some of them , &c. neither let us commit fornication as some of them committed , &c. neither let us tempt christ 〈◊〉 some of them also tempted , neither murmure ye as also some of them murmurd , and were destroyed of the destroyer : so that the israelites being once circumcized , were all admitted to eat the passeover , though some of them were idolaters ; others , lusters after evill things ; others fornicators , others tempters of christ , others murmurers against god and moses ; therefore there was no suspension of any circumcized israelite from the passover , for spirituall uncleannesse , and scandalous sins , but only for legall uncleannesses . secondly , it is cleere by the objected text , that those who were legally uncleane at the day appointed for the passover , so as they could not then receive it , were yet peremptorily enjoyned to eat it the 14. day of the second month ; and not suspended , til they made publike confession of their sins , reformed the evill of their doings , and gave publike satisfaction to the congregation , or priests , as god himselfe resolves in terminis , num. 9. 11 , 12. if any man of you , or of your posterity shal be unclean by reason of a dead body , yet he shall eat the passover the fourteenth day of the second moneth at even , he must not be suspended from it above one moneth : by what law then , doe many ministers now presume , to suspend ▪ their whole congregations , not onely above whole moneths but yeers from the lords table ( contrary to this text ) whereof the pasoever was a type ? let them amend this practice , or renounce this scripture , and their unwarrantable inferences from it . thirdly , he that was legally unclean , was kept back from the passeover for the present , not by the priest , or ecclesiasticall classis , or temporall magistrate , but by those of the same u family wherein he was to eat the passover , as ver. 6 , 7. imports . and the true reason in this text , why his uncleannesse did seclude him from eating the passover , was , because it quite excluded him out of the camp for a time , ( not tabernacle or temple ) and so by necessary consequence , from the house wherein he was to eat the passeover , as is evident by levit. 14. 3. 8. chap. 16. 26 , 27 , 28. num. 5. 2 ▪ 3 , 4. chap. 12. 14 , 15. chap. 19. 7. 11. chap. 31. 19. 20. 24. deut. 23. 10 , 11. and by like reason it debarred him from all other ordinances , as well as it ; so that all you can probably inferre from this text , is but this , which none will contradict : that prophane , scandalous persons justly excommunicated , and shut out of the church , ought not to receive the sacrament , nor participate in any other ordinance , during their excommunication , till their re-admittance into the church ; as the uncleane israelite could not eat the passover , nor be present at any other publike ordinance or sacrifice , till his re-admittance into the camp . fourthly , here is a direct resolution of god himselfe in positive tearmes , prescribing a suspension from the passover in case of present legall pollution onely , not spirituall ; yet expresly enjoyning the self-same person under the severest penalty , to eat it the very next moneth after ; but there is no such punctuall resolution in the old or new testament , to warrant a like suspension of any from the sacrament of the lords supper , in case of scandall or spirituall uncleannesse , unlesse he be first legally excommunicated , nor can any minister or classis debar him justly from it by any colour or inference from this text , if he be desirous to receive it ; any longer then for one moneth . fifthly , this argument for suspending men from the lords table for spirituall uncleannesse , because some were suspended from the pasover for legall ▪ uncleannesse , but not for spirituall , is no way conclusive ; first , because the passeover and lords supper , ceremoniall and spirituall pollution differ in kind : secondly , because suspension from the sacrament for spirituall uncleannesse , fals not at all under this temporary precept , of suspension from the passeover , onely for legall uncleannesse ; the rather , because no man was kept from the passeover by colour thereof , for any spirituall pollution , but onely for ceremoniall uncleannes ; therefore much lesse can any be suspended by color of it from the sacrament , to which it hath no relation ; thirdly , there is a direct divine warrant for the one , but not for the other ; wherefore we may justly reject the objected argument as erronious and fallacious . secondly , to the latter part of the objection ; that none might offer so much a● a trespasse-offering for sinne , without a particular private confession of hi● sinne ( to god , not to the priest ; ) ergo , he might not eat the passover ( nor any now the sacrament ) if he were a scandalous sinner , without a particular publike confession and repentance of his scandalous sinnes . i answer , that it is a meer non-sequitur , because , first , directly contradicted by 1 cor. 10. 1. to 12. as the premises manifest : secondly , because a particular examination of the conscience and repentance for sin , is no where required in scripure of such who did eat the pasover , though all circumstances & necessaries for the worthy eating of it be most punctually enumerated , exod. 12. num. 9. deut. 16. neither was there any such reason why god should require such a confession of sinne in those who were to eat the passeover , as he expresly exacts from those who came to offer a sin-offering to him , only of set purpose to pr●cure an attonement for those very particular sins which they did then confesse , at which oblation it was both necessary and requisite they should particularly confesse those very sinnes ( yet not to the priest , classis or congregation , but to god alone ) since the scripture is positive , that without confession of sinne , there is no remission of it ; and therefore when they came purposely to sue for pardon , and make attonement for any particular sinnes , it was absolutely needfull and expedient they should then confesse them : but in the passeover there was no atttonement nor confession made to god for any particular sinne , but onely a commemoration of his infinite mercy in passing over the israelites first borne , when he slew the aegyptians : therefore the paralelling of these two together , and the inference from the one , applyed to the other , is very incoherent : finally , i answer ; that every particular communicant befoce he comes to receive the sacrament , makes a publike confession of his sinnes to god with the rest of the congregation , and in words at least , voweth newnesse of life for the future ; there being no communicant that ever i heard of so desparately wicked and atheisticall , as not to professe hearty sorrow for all his forepast sinnes , or to avow impenitent continuance in them when he came to the lords table ; therefore he cannot be justly debarred from the sacrament by vertue of this text , after such a confession , since none were kept off from making their attonement by a trespasse offering if they did first confesse their sinnes to god , though perchance his confession was not cordiall , or such as the priests approved , but externall , onely in shew . the sixth thing in controversie between us , is , whether judas received the sacra●ent of the lords supper , as well as the other apostles ? our antagonists most confidently deny he received it , against direct scripture , and all antiquity , the currant confessions , resolutions of most churches , and their eminentest writers of all sorts : i shall prove the affirmative that he did receive it , by scripture , antiquitie , fathers , modern authors of all sorts , and then answer all pretences to the contrary , with all possible brevity . first , the three evangelists matthew , marke and luke , who onely relate the institution of this sacrament , are all expresse in terminis , that christ sat● downe to eat the passeover , and the twelve apostles with him ▪ that jud●s was one of these twelve , and present at the table ; that as they sate at meat together , jesus tooke bread and brake it , and gave it to them , ( the twelve ) saying , take , eat , this is my body : that he likewise took the cup , & gave thanks , and gave it to them , saying , drink ye all of it , &c. and mark expresly records , he gave it to them , and they all drank of it . if all twelve then sate downe with christ , and christ gave the bread and cup to them , and bad them all eat and drink thereof , and they all did eat and drink thereof accordingly : with what shadow of truth dare any confidently aver , that judas did not receive this sacrament of the lords supper , and that he was not present at its institution ? adde to this , that matthew and mark record , that immediately before the institution of this sacrament , as they sate at meat , iesus said u●to the twelve , verily one of you shall betray me ; whereupon they began to be sorrowfull , and to say unto him , every one of them one by one , lord is it i ? and he answered and sayd unto them , it is one of the twelve that dippeth with me in the dish : then judas who betrayed him , said , master is it i ? and he said unto him , thou hast said it : which was no sooner uttered , but iesus took bread and blessed it , &c. and both instituted and distributed the sacrament to them all , as yo● heard before ; therefore certainly to iudas , the l●st man that said , is it i ? immediatly before the institution , as saint matthew records ; and to manifest yet further , that iudas was present at the sacrament , saint luke placeth these words of christ concerning iudas his betraying him ▪ after the institution and distribution of the sacrament , not before it , which he thus expresseth ; but behold the hand of him that betrayeth me is with me at the table , &c , and they began to enquire among themselves which of them should betray him . saint iohn writes thus ; and supper being ended , the devil having now put it into the heart of judas iscariot to betray him ; christ riseth from supper , and laid aside his garment , and tooke a towell and began to wash his disciples feet ; and it seemes he washed iudas his feet , who was then present , as these words import , iohn 13. 10 , 11. and ye are cleane , but not all ; for he knew who should betray him : therefore he said , ye are cleane , but not all : after which he sate downe againe ▪ and among sundry other discourses with his disciples , he said ; verily i say unto you , that one of you shall betray mee ; then the disciples looked one upon another , doubting of who● he spake : now there was leaning on iesus bosome , one of the disciples whom iesus loved ; simon peter therefore beckned to him , that he should ask who it should be of whom he spake : he then leaning on iesus breast , saith unto him , lord who is it ? iesus answered him it is to whom i shall give a sop when i have dipped it : and when he had dipped the sop , he gave it to iudas iscariot ; and after the sop , satan entred into him : then said iesus unto him , that thou doest , doe quickely ; he then having received the sop , went immediatly out , and it was night . now saint iohn expresly averring , verse 2. that all this discourse , and the giving of the sop to iudas , was after supper ended : and the other three evangelists unanimously according , that christ instituted and distributed the sacrament ( at least the bread ) as he sate at meat , as they were eating , before supper quite ended ( whence it was stiled the lords supper ; ) it must of necessity follow from all the evangelists severall relations , joyned together , and especially from saint iohns ( who was present at the institution ) from whence our antagonists would inferre the contrary , that iudas did receive the sacrament of the lords supper , together with the other disciples ▪ and they may as probably question , whether peter or iohn did receive it , as iudas , there being not one sillable in any of the evangelists , intimating he did not receive it with the rest , which doubtlesse they would have particularly and positively recorded , had he not been present at it , being a thing of so great moment . this truth is so transparent , that all ages have positively averred , received it as an indubitable verity ; for which i could produce whole centuries of writers : but for brevity , i shall recite the testimonies onely of some few of principall note . origen tract. 35. in matth. si autem potes spiritualem mensam & cibum spiritualem & dominicam intelligere caenam , quibus omnibus dignificatus fuerat ( judas ) a christo abundantius videbis multitudinem maliciarum ejus , quibus magistrum , cum cibo divinae mensae & calicis , & hoc in die paschae tradidit . saint cyprian in his sermon de ablutione pedum writes thus , ad mensae tuae participationem , judas proditor est admissus : and de caena domini , he thus seconds it : quamdiu , cibi illi , qui ad diem festum erant parati convescentibus apostolis sumebantur , veteris paschae agebatur memoria nec dum iudas ad veterem vitam pertinens , diabolo invadente & occupante anim●m ejus egredi cogebatur ; sed ubi sac●um cibum mens perfida tetigit , & sceleratum os panis sanctificatus intravit , paricidialis animus vim tant● sacramenti non sustinens , quasi palea de area exsufflatus est , & praeceps cucurrit ad desperatio●em et laqu●um . saint ambrose enar. de tobia . lib. c. 14. resolves thus : judas ibi miser periit in illo convivio quo alij saluantur : idem apologi a davidis posterior , cap. 11. judas panem accepit a christo , & tunc magis est repletus diabolo , quia non accepit ex fide , qui tam hospitali domino pro litionem parabat and com. lib. 12. in luc. 13. judas proditionem sanguinis dominici inter sacrificia positus cogitabat . saint chrysostome serm. 1. de mysteriis caenae dominicae . qui sacratae huius caenae indigne participatur accubitu , non cum petro perveniat ad s●l●tis portium , sed sustinebit cum iuda sine reparatione naufragium . iudas non syncerus sed simulator accubuit , et post bu●●●llam christi , in eum diabolus introivit . and de resurrectione . homil. 3. quid caenam illam liberalem commemorem , ubi tingebat discipulus mendax digitum ? edebat cum pane caed●m ▪ ●t sorbebat cum sanguine potionem . o crudele proditoris convivium ! rogo , quibus oculis ●spectebat , quem sub dente premeb●● ? to passe by nazianzen , who in his christus patiens , agrees , that iudas did receive the lords supper ▪ together with the other apostles . cyrill . bishop of ierusalem asserts the same , catechesis 13. prodiderat judas improbus patrem-familias , nuperque exiens a mensa , & poculum benedictionis bibens , & pro potu salutari sanguinem justi effudere volens . saint augustine thus seconds him , in psal. 3. enar. cum traditor domini judas fuerit , ipsa domini nostri , tanta et tam miranda patientia , quod cum tamdiu pertulit tanquam bonum , cum ejus cogitationes non ignoraret , cum adhibuit ad convivium in qu● corporis et sanguinis sui figuram discipulis commendavit et tradidit . in his 162. epist. iudas accepit pretium nostrum : and tract. 6. 26. & 62. in joan. he oft reiterates it : non mala erat buccella quae ●radita est iudae à domino . absit , medicus non d●ret venenum ; salutem medicus dedit , sed ind●gnè accipiendo ad perniciem accepit , qui non paratus accepit : talis erat judas , ●et tamen cum sanctis discipulis vndecim intrabat et exibat . ad ipsam c●nam domini●am pariter accessit ; conversari cum iis potuit , ●os inquinare non potuit : de uno pane et petrus accipit et judas ; et tamen quae pars fideli et infidel● ? petrus enim accepit ad vitam , manducat judas ad mortem : qui enim comederunt indignè judicium sibi manducat et bibit sibi , non tibi : s● judicium sibi non tibi , toleramalum bonus , ut venias ad praemia bonorum , ne mitteris in poenam malorum : which our venerable beda , in his comentary on 1 cor. 11. both recites and approves . sundry more passages to this purpose are there in this father , which i pretermit for brevity . victor antiochenus in chap. 14. evang. marci . comments thus : dominus autem licet omnium consiliorum judae gnarus esset , attamen a sacramenti sui accessu illum non prohibuit : cur ita ? nempe ut hin● discas , nihil corum praeterijsse , quae eum ad sanam mentem reducere quoquo modo poterant : sunt tamen qui judam ante porrectum eucharistiae sacramentum exiuisse existiment , &c. the first mention i find of any opinion to the contrary . theodoret in his interpretation on the 1 epistle to the corinthians , cap. 14. writes thus of christ , salutaris sacramenti portas aperuit , et non solum undecim apostolis , sed etiam judae pr●ditori pretiosum corpus et sanguinem impertit . remigius bishop of rhemes , in his explanation on the 1 cor. 11. asserts it in these tearmes . probet se , &c. utrum ▪ dignus sit neque ; nè fort● unde alij sumunt r●medium , accipiet ille damnationem et judicium , indigne-illud percipiens , sicut iud●● proditor : nam cum alij apostoli sumpsissent illud terribile sacramentum ad remedium et ad salutem suam ille qui non dignus erat tanto mysterio , accepit illud ad dam●ationem suam ; quia quem diabolus antea tenebat per suggestion●m et tentationem , postea ad damnationem , tenuit plenius , ut nihil aliud posset cogitare aut facere nisi quod voluntas ejus erat : with whom haym●bishop of halberstat , concurres in the self-same tearmes , in his interpretation on the 1 cor. 11. pascatius ratbertus , de corpore & sanguine domini , cap. 28. hath this memorable passage to this purpose : aliud verò christus nouerat , quod et boni dignè , et mali indignè , hoc mysterium , licet praesumptione accepturi essent , voluit formam dare cunctis communicantibus , quid boni , quid●è mal● percipiant : et ideo judas in figura omnium malorum ad percipiendum admittitur . aecumenius enar. in 1 cor. 11. hath this speech , dominus ●oster communi mensa non sanctos modo discipulo● , sed et ipsum proditorem ea dignatus est , inimicum s●eleratissimum : et vos dedignamini vna cum pauperibus caenare . algerus de sacramentis , lib. 1. cap. 21. resolves thus . cum ergo malos corpus christi verè sumere , ipsumque iudam a summ● sacerdote christ● , cum caeteris apostolis acc●pisse sancti testentur , astructum etiam videtur , non esse nobis noxium , si à nobis , vel nobiscum mali malè suma●● sacramenta , cum iudas ab ipso christo cum caeteris apostolis acceperit , nec etiam a pravis minus verè confici ipsa sacram●nta , cum ipse proditor tan●● offici● ministerium à summo pontifice accipiens , cum caeteris , hoc faci●e in meam comm●morationem , a●dierit : si enim sicut e● à domino injunctum fuerat , corpus domin● confecisset , numquid vera minus ab ipso pravo , quam à qu●vis bo●o factum fuisset ? q●ia enim judas accus●tus et damnatus non fuerat , ideo christus conscientiam ejus perversam quan●vis sibi notam dam●ar● noluit , ut nos instru●ret , quod aliquorum pravitas nec conversation● , nec sacramentorum consecratione vel comparticipatione bonis aliquatenus nocere possit . augustinus contra donatistas : communio malorum non maculat aliquem participatione sacramentorum , sed consensione factorum . item , ●dem in homilijs suis ▪ ut sufferas etiam cum quem nosti malum , attende apostolum dicentem , unusquisque onus suum portabit . non enim cum illo communicas avaritiam , sed christi mensam : et quid obest si communices cum illo mensam christi ? qui manducat & bibit indignè , judicium sibi manducat & bibit . sibi inquit , non tibi . quia igitur , ut a●t leo , judae dominus nec negavit apostolic● ordims honorem , in conficiendis sacramentis , nec communionem in ipsis percipiendis , multum providit ecclesiae suae , ostendens per hunc solum innoxiam e● fore malorum praelationem vel conversationem , in quo nisi esset praescisa tanti causa scismatis , multi magis superbè quam religiose calcibus etiam à se repellerent eos qui apud se minoris esse viderentur aestimationis : unde aug. in serm. 49. super joannem : quid voluit dominus admonere ecclesiam suam quando unum perditum inter duodecim habere voluit , nisi ut malos toleremus , ne corpus christi dividamus ; ecce inter sanctos est judas , ecce fur est & sacrilegus ; talis cum discipulis ad coenam dominicam accessit ; conversari cum eis petuit , inquinare eos non potuit . theophilact who flourished about 1070. veers after christ , in his enar. in marcum . cap. 14. page 109. writes thus ; quidam dicunt ( but who they were , appeares not in any extant works of theirs ) iudam non fuisse participem sacramentorum sed egressum esse pri●squam dominus sacramenta traderet : alij autem dicunt ▪ quod etiam ingrato illi sacro-sancta dederit : but himself subscribes to the latter opinion without scruple , not onely in his enar. in ioan cap. 13. where he affirmes it over and over severall times ; but also in his enar. in matth. 26. page 67. apposuit autem vescentibus ut ostenderet crudelitatem judae , quia in mensa & communione ciborum illius , quando si & fera fuisset , mansuetiorem se exhibuisset ; tunc neque cum argueretur intellexit , sed et corpus illius gustans non poe●●tuit : quidam autem dicunt ; quod egresso juda tradidit sacramentum alijs discipulis proi●de et nos sic f●cere debemus , et malos a sacramentis abarcere , &c. bibite ex ●o omnes ; sunt qui dicunt propter judam hoc dictum : judas enim panem accepit , et non comedi● , sed oc ▪ ul●avit , ut monstraret judaeis , quod panem corpus suù● voc●rit iesus ; pocul●m autem invitus bibit , cum non posset occultare , propterea ho● loco dic●b●t , bi●ite omnes . saint b●rnard suffragates to all the former , that iudas did receive the sacrament as well as the other apostles . i shall trouble you with no more ancients , since they all unanimously acco●d herein without one dissenting voice , excepti●g hilary , in matth. can●n . ●0 . the old and moderne canonists of all sorts , with one consent suffragate to this verity ; i shall instance but in two , to wit , gratian . caus. 1. quest . 1. & ivo c●●not ensis ▪ d●cretalium ▪ secunda pars : in both which we have many senten●●s of fathers collected to this purpose , and among others , this of augustine , in exposi● . psalmi . 10 ▪ christus quid fecit vobis qui traditorem suum tant a pati●●ti● pertulit , ut ei primum eucharistiam confectam manibus , et ore suo commend●t●m , sicut caeteris apostolis traderet ? quid vobis fecit christus , qui eundem traditorem suum que● diabolum nominavit , qui ante traditionem domini nec lo●●lis d●minicis ●idem potuit exhibere , cum caeteris discipulis ad praedicandum regnum caelorum misit , nisi ut monstraret , dona dei perve●ire ad eos , qui cum fide accipi●nt , etiamsi talis sit per quem accipiunt qualis judas fuit : see gratian to the same effect , caus. 7. que. 1. & de conserat . dist. 1. & 2. all succeding canonists and glossers upon grat●●n concurre with these two ancients without dissent , and so doe the casuists too ; i spare their names for brevity sake . the schoolmen generally s●bscribe to this conclusion ; i shall mention onely three or four of them . the first is , alexander alensis , our owne country-man , stiled the irrefragable doctor , in whose summa theol●giae , pars 4. quest . 11. art. 1. sect. 3. i first of all meet with this question propounded and disc●ssed : an christus etiam iudae corpus suum in coena dedor●t ? this doctor holds affirmatively that he did , which he proves by ma●th . 26. 24. &c. iohn 13. dionysius areopagita , chrysostome , hom. 81. super matth. the ordinary glosse on mat. 18. iohn 13. & 1 cor. 11. and other texts : adding that if christ had actually excluded iudas ▪ from this sacrament , certainly s●●● of the evangelists or others would have expresly noted such a memorabls and notable all , which not one of them hath done : and he resolves thus , tha● christ in this supper gave his body to iudas , and that for divers reas●ns : the first t●ken from gods wisdome , and that for a twofold reason ; first , to teac● us to love our e●emies , since christ fed this traitor with his owne slesh ; secondly , to instruct the ministers of this sacrament ▪ for in that he denied ●ot his body to iudas ▪ who was entangled in a grievous ●inne , he hath taught the dispensers of this sacrament , that they ought to give it to sinners in the like case , when they shall desire it . secondly , in regard of gods mercy , and that in two respects ; f●rst , revocati●n from evill ; secondly , promotion in good : for ●his well ought , out of the consideration of gods mercy ( which most appeares in this that he delivered his body to him ) to recla●me him from his evill p●rpose , and conse●uently to meliorate him by the vertue of so great a sacrament ; but he increased in his sin , from whence he ought to have augmented his merit . thirdly , in resp●ct of divine justice , and that in two respects : the augmentation of his fault , the retribution or damnation of his punishment ; for since he would not cease from his conceived malice by so great a benefit , by the just judgement of god , he is punished by a fall into a more grievous crime , to wit , desperation . fifthly , in respect of divine conversation , the lord for this cause giving him his body with others , that he might shew him , that he ought to be of like good conversation with others . sixtly , for his perfect reformation as much as might be , on the lords part , since he left no meanes unattempted to reclaime him . this and much more alensis , who is seconded by thomas aquinas , 3. qu. 81. 1. 0. l. 4. dist. ii . qu. 3. ar. 2. qu. 1. 2. 0. by john gerson serm. in coena dom. ad eccle. ca●telam ; hugo de sacram. l. 2. c. 8. and by our countrymen ▪ rich. de media villa , l. 4. dist. 11. ar. 4. qu. 2. 3. tho ▪ waldensis , oper. tom. 3. c. 43. sect. 6. and all the popish schoolmen ; many of them holding t that iudas did receive the very body of christ himself , as well as the sacrament of his body : this doctrin of judas his eating the sacrament with christ at his last supper , is so currant in the church of rome , that they have inserted it into most of their ladies psalters , howers , missals , and expressed it in this rime . rex sedet in coena , turba cinctus duodena , se tenet in manibus , &c. for protestant writers , the most and best of them in forraigne parts agree u that judas did receive the sacrament , or outward elements of christs body and blood ; but not the body and blood of christ himself ; panem domini , non panem dominum , sacramentum corporis & sanguinis christi , non rem sacramenti : the outward signes , not the inward & spirituall grace , for which read caluini instit. l. 4. ● . 17. sect. 34. aretii problemata , locus 77. de usu sacramentorum , instead of hundreds of others ; and as the prime writers , so the publike confessions of the reformed churches resolve , that judas did receive the sacrament as well as the other apostles : witnesse the x confession of bohemia . in the holy scripture manifest examples of this nature are found in many places ; especially in judas , who received the sacrament of the lord christ himselfe : and the confession of belgia , an evill man verily receiveth the sacrament unto his owne condemnation , but the thing or truth of the sacrament he receiveth not : as for example ; judas and simon magus ▪ both of them did receive the sacramentall signes , but as for christ signified thereby , they received him not . for our owne protestant writers , i shall nominate but two of note , our english apostle john wickliffe , as thomas waldensis records his opinion , operum tom. 3. c 43. sect. 6. and our incomparable bishop jewel , in his defence of the apology of the church of england ( publikly reserved in all our churches ) part 5. sect. 16. divis . 1. pag. 635. who determine , that iudas received the sacrament of the body and blood of christ , though not christ himselfe ; and the whole church of england in the exhortation before the sacrament , in the antiquated common-prayer booke , hath resolved , that judas did receive the sacrament , as this clause manifests ; therefore if any of you be a blasphemer of god , &c. bewaile your sinnes , and come not to this holy table , least after the taking of that holy sacrament , the devill enter into you , as he entred into iudas , &c. and the 29. article of the church of england , with the 96. article of the church of ireland ▪ resolve as much , in citing , approving s●int austins words as orthodox doctrine , which he spake directly of judas his receiving the sacrament , and externall elements of christs body and blood ; for which you may consult with ma●ter rogers his exposition on this article . the verity of judas his receiving the sacrament being thus abundantly ratified by direct scriptures , and so many concurr●nt authorities of all sorts in all ages , ( to which hundreds of like testimonies might be added . ) i shall onely add● this further consideration to the premises , that al our antagoni●●s & the evangelists cleerly agree , that judas did eat the pass●over with christ himselfe , as well as the other apostles : ( now the passeover was a type of the lords supper ( which su●ceeded in its place , and a sacrament under the law ) the same in substance with the e●charist under the gospell ; wherein christ was spiritually represented and received , as well as in the lords supper , 1 cor. 10. 3 , 4. ch. 5. 7. therefore since christ admitted him to the one , i cannot beleev he quite excluded him from the other ▪ which the last answer to the four quaeres doth ingenio●●ly acknowledg . and here i cannot but wonder to see , with what groundle●●e confidence many godly learned divines now averre the contrary both in presse and pulpit , of purpose to introduce a suspension of pretended ●nworthy persons from the sacrament , before any actuall excommunication from the church , or other ordinances deno●●ced against them : certainly , their grosse mistake against scripture , and the resolution of all ages ▪ churches , in this particular , will make wise consciencious men in all parts of this particular controversie ( wherein prejudice and selfe ends , i feare , have much over ▪ blinded their judgements ) distrust and examine all other their paradoxes ▪ inferences , and mis-interpretations of scripture , which will prove but darknesse in the conclusion , though cryed up and embraced by many , under the specious seducing notion of new-light . having thus made good ▪ the affirmative , i shall answer the reasons produced by the opposites , to prove , that i●das received not the sacrament ; which in truth are meer mistakes : first , they say , that iudas went out before supper ended , immediately after he received the sop , john 13. 30. but our saviour did not ordaine this sacrament till after supper , luke 22. ●0 . when he had supped , 1 cor. 11. 25. therefore judas certainly received not the sacrament . i answer , first , that judas went not out till after supper , as saint iohn expre●●y resolve● , jo●● 13. 2. and supper being ended , the devill having n●w put it into the heart of judas &c. after which , he addes ▪ that christ rose from the table and washed his disciples feet , and judas feet among the rest , if not first of all ( a●theophilact with others hold ; ) after this , judas continued there with christ for some space , as the series of the chapter from the 20 , to the 30 verse attests . seco●dly , all the three other evangelists prove directly , that judas was present at the sacrament , as i have formerly evidenced ; therefore to inferre the contrary fr●● john 13. 30. is to make john contradict all the other evangelists , and himselfe 100 , v. 2 &c. therefore it must needs be a cursed interpretation which corrupts the text , and se●s the evangelists together by the ears . thirdly , this sacrament was not i●sti●●ted after supper , but as th●y sat● at supper , whence i● was called the lords supper ; matthewes and pauls expression is , as they were eating , iesus tooke bread , &c. marks , as they sate and did eat , and lukes words taken altogether , imply as much : therefore he instituted the sacrament , not after supper , but at and during supper , whiles they sate and did eat at table : true it is . luke writes , not of the bread , but cup onely ( to which pauls objected words likewise relate ) he tooke the cup after supper , luke 22. 20. yet it appeares he took it likewise during supper , verse 17. yea , some learned me● are o● opinion ▪ that christ had two suppers that night : first , his pas●ha● sup●er , at the clo●e whereof he instituted the sacrament of his owne supper : secondly , an ordinary supper , which succeeded the insti●●tion of his owne , in imitation whereof ▪ the u ●or●●h●ans and x primitive christians had their agape or love ▪ feasts , which they did eat immediately after the lord ▪ supper : and this is more then intimated by saint john , ●hap , 13. ver. 2. 4 ▪ 12. to ●1 . where we read , that af●●r supper , jesus did rise from supper , and washed his disciple ▪ feet ; which done , after some discourse he sate downe againe with them and then dipped a sop , ( which could not well be at the paschall supper ▪ where we read of no so●s , nor ought to dip them in ) and gave it to judas ▪ &c. who having received the sop went imediately out : therefore lukes , after supper he took the cup must be meant only after the paschall supper , not the other common supper : for if judas went out before the paschal supper q●ite ●nded , thē you mu●t grant that he did not drink of the cup contrary to christs expr●●●e precept , drink ye all of this ; and saint marks relation , that they did all drink thereof ; to wit , all the twelve disciples . fourthly , the word imediately doth not alwayes imply , a thing done at the self-same instant , without the lest intervenient stay or delay ; but many times ( as all know ) in our common speech ▪ it signifies , soon after , or not long after ; as we usually say , we will doe this or that imediately , instantly , presently , when as we meane onely ●peedily , within a short time , not at that instant or very time we speak it ; so that admit the mo●● that can be , this word will not necessarily in●erre , that jud●s went out so imediatly after the sop received , that he did not stay to receive the lords supper ere he went out , which all the other evangelists words deny , who would certainly have expressed it in direct tearmes ▪ had there been any such thing . their second reaso● , that judas received not the sacrament , because christ could not say unto him particularly , take , eat , this is my body which is given for thee ; this is my blood which is shed for thee ; is very absurd . first , because it appeares not , that christ did deliver the bread and wine severally , one after another to every of his disciples ▪ as our ministers ●se now to do ; but o●ely ▪ gave it promis●●o●sly to them all at once ; who took and divided it severally ●mong themselves , and handed it one to another , as luke 22. 17. & mat. 26. 27. divide it among your selves ▪ he tooke the cup and gave it to them ( joyntly , not to each of them by himselfe ) saying , drinke ye all ( not tho●peter or john ) of this , doe more then imply . secondly , because admit christ used those words particularly to judas , a● ministers now do to each particular communicant , yet he meant them only co●●i ●onally , that his body was broken , and his blood shed for him , if he would really receive the● by faith , otherwise not ! christ being made o●rs onely by faith . thirdly , matthew and mark relate christs words of instit●tion to be without any such particular application , as w● subjoyne ▪ viz. take eat ▪ this is my body : drinke y● all of this , for this is my blood of the new testament which is shed for many : not for thee judas ; which he might very well use to judas , as conjoyned with the other apostles . but these antagonists have a second shift ; when they cannot deny that judas received the sacrament , they answer , he was a close hypocrite , guilty of no scandalous crime , so that the other apostles were more ready to suspect themselves then judas , when christ told them , that one of them should betray him ▪ therefore this is no president or warrant for ministers , to admit open scandalous sinners ( though not actually excommunicated ) to the lords table . i answer , first , that christ himselfe ( the b searcher and knower of all mens hearts ) did some one or two yeers space before this , infallibly know , and tell his disciples , that one of them , to wit , judas iscariot , was a devill , for he it was should betray him , being one of the twelve , john 6. 70 , 71. secondly , at the time when he instituted the sacrament , he infallibly knew and foretold the disciples , yea judas himselfe , that judas should betray him , and that it was fore-prophesied he should doe so , john 13. 18. to 28. matth. 26. 20. to 26. mark 14. 18. to 22. luke 22. 21 , 22 , 23. acts 1. 17. 18. thirdly , that when christ washed his disciples feet ( and iudasses among others ) after supper , he told them , that they were clean , but not all ; meaning it of iudas ▪ iohn 13. 10 , 11. fourthly , he infallibly knew him to be lost , and thereupon called him , the sonne of perdition , that the scripture might be fulfilled , iohn 17. 12. and knew that the devill after the sop given , would enter into , and take actuall possession of him , iohn 13. 27. compared with ch. 6. 70 , 71. & that he should be certainly damned & fall from his apostleship , for his transgression , that he might goe to his own place ( that is , to hell ) acts 1. 25. and that therefore in eating the sacrament , he would certainly but eat and drinke judgement to himselfe , and be guilty of the body and blood of the lord , 1 cor. 11. 27 , 29. if then christ himselfe did infallibly know all this of iudas , though perchance his other disciples did not ( as likewise his theevish , covetous , as well as traiterous disposition , john 12. 6. both which did make him scandalous , and an unworthy ●eceiver ) and yet for all this , in the very originall institution of the sacrament , because iudas was still one of the twelve , nor actually convicted of , nor excom●●nicated for these crimes , and voluntarily desiring to receive the sacrament as well as others ▪ and because christ himself would leave him unexcusable in leaving no externall meanes unattempted to reclaime him from his desperate intentio●● , by what divine authority , rule of conscience , or christian prudence , can any minister of christ ( who is not , at lest ought not to deem himself , either greater ▪ wiser , holier , preciser or more consciencious then christ his master ) keep any unexco●●●nicated christian from the sacrament , though covetous , scandalous , & outwardly fl●gitious for the present , in case he be desirous to receive it , and will not be kept from it by any serious dehortations or admonitions of the danger of unworthy receiving , if he in his owne conscience judge himselfe worthy , professe his hearty sorrow for his sinnes past , and reformation of them for the future ( especially since no minister c can so certainly know the secret disposition of such a mans heart for the present , nor what d he may from thenceforth prove for the future ▪ or whether he be not ●● e elect child of god , and so certaine to be effectually called , converted , peradventure at that instant time , in or by this very ordinance of the sacrament ; ) as christ himselfe did know the heart , state , and finall impenitence of this traitor iudas , whom notwithstanding he admitted to his table : i shall therefore beseech all our ministers and opposites , to lay this seriously to heart ; and if they will needs make , or pretend conscience in any thing , let it be in this , not to make themselves wiser , holier , rigidder , or more consciencious in this point then christ himselfe f remember the words that christ said to his disciples , & in them to all minister● , the servant is not greater then his lord , nor he that is se●t ▪ greater then he that sent him : it is enough for the disciple that he be as his mast●r , and the servant a● his lord . remember what st. iohn determines , 1 iohn 2. 6. h● that , saith he , abideth in christ , ought himselfe to walk eve● as he walked ; who , as in his suffering , so in the administration of this sacrament , hath left us an example , that we should follow his steps , 1 pet. 2. 21. eph. 5 , 1 , 2. compared with th● 1 cor. 11. 23 ▪ &c. we all grant , it is christs prerogative onely to institute sacraments , and is it ●ot his prerogative likewise to prescribe how and to whom they shall be administred ? and hath he not done this by hi● own example ? take heed therfore of making conscience of excluding such unexcommunicated person● from christ● table now he is in heaven ▪ as himself without scruple admitted to it whiles he was on earth ; if any unexcommunicated iudasses will wilfully come to this sacred feast without a wedding-garment , or with a traiterous and impenitent heart , contrary to their externall profession of repentance , ●fter your serious dehortation to them , and advisements to abstaine , the danger , guilt and sinne is onely their owne ▪ not yours ( as i shall prove more fully a●on ) else christ himselfe should have been guilty ( by your kind of reasoning ) of iudas his sinne and ●nworthy receiving , which you dare not affi●me . secondly , if christ himselfe knowing iudas to be such a desper●te wick●d wretch , traitor , reprobate , did yet admit him to eat the passeover and sacrament with his other disciples , and they made not any scruple of conscience ●o communicate with him in both , no not after christ had particularly informed them ▪ and judas himselfe , that he should betray him , matth. 26. 21. to ●6 . then certainly there can be no colour for ●ny christian , in point of con●cience ▪ to withdraw himselfe from the lords table , or sever from our churches because of mixt comm●nions ( as some now phrase them ) or because some op●● s●a●dalous unexcommunicate persons , are admitted to communicate with them : this i●●he use and inference which most of the ancien●s ▪ made of iudas his ●ating the lords supper and passeover with his fellow-disciples and they with him , against the scismaticall donatists ( now revived in our ind●penden●s a●●baptists , separatists ) whose resolution● in this case they may doe well to read at large in gratian , caus. 1. quest . 1. and in ivo carnot●nsis , decre●●lium ▪ ●ec●nda par● , to whom i shall referre them : certainly they may with as much conscience and reason refuse to joyne with such in hearing , reading ▪ fasting ▪ singing , prayer , or any other ordinances as in this , ●pon the self ▪ same grou●d● t●ey 〈◊〉 to communicate with the● at the lords table : therefore let not such ground ▪ lesse whimsie● , and false principles , upon which they have hitherto soun●●d their practice of separation in this kind delude thē any longer ; they being ●s much partakers of other mens sin● , in participating ▪ joining or being present with them in any other ordin●nce , as in this ; since if they de●est their sinfull courses , they are no more guilty of them by rec●iving the s●crament with the● ▪ then christ or his apo●●le● w●re of iud●s his ●●ea●on or unworthy receiving , by communicating with him ; the ●ather , b●cause the scripture resolves expresly ( and all come●tators new and old upon the text sub●cribe to it ) that every unworthy communicant eats and dr●●●es judgement onely to himselfe , 1 cor. 11. 27. 29. ) not to the ministe● or any other , with whom he shall communicate in this ordinance . let those therefore who out of spiritu●ll pride and selfe ▪ opinion of their owne transc●●dent holinesse above others , disd●ine to communicate with those whom ●hey deem more sin●●l , l●sse p●nitent then themselves , beware lest this groundlesse phari●●ical ride of theirs make them not more scandalous & unfit to receive thi● sacrament ( ●t which they should especially manifest their humilty , charity , love , ●ompassion and 〈◊〉 towards their br●thren ) then those scandalous persons they refuse to communicate with , as the pharis●s pride in prayer , made him lesse justifi●● and un●●ceptable to god then the publican , luke 18. 9. to 15. a place well worthy their saddest consideration . and thu● much for i●das his receiving the sacr●ment , which go●● very farr in deciding our present controversies . the seventh difference is ▪ whether the minister hath not fully discharged his duty and conscience if he give warning to unworthy communicants of the danger they incurre by their unworthy approches to the lords table , ●nd seriously deh●rt them from comming to it , ●●lesse they repent , reforme , and come prepared ? and ●hether the 1 cor. 11. ezek. 33. 1. to 10. acts. 20. 26. 27. ●ith the li●urgies of our owne and the french churches doe not intimate a●d prove a● much ? i affirme , my f antagonists deny it in their three printed pamphlets ; affirming , that it is not enough for ministers to warne them of the sinne and danger of unworthy receiving ▪ unlesse they l●kewise keep them back from the sacrament : the reason they render is , because , ●f the minister gives the sacrament to such , he is a partaker of their sinne and as much guilty by the giving , as the other by his unwor●hy receiving ▪ and shall partake with him both in the guilt and punishment : to exemplifie which they use this simi●itude : sir , if you have a cup in your hand which will poyson and kill a sick distempered man , if he drinke of it , will you give it unto him if he desire it ? and do● you think it enough to admonish him that it is deadly poyson , and first deh●rt him from drinking of it ▪ and then imediately reach it to him , with intent tha he shall drink of it ? i perswade my selfe , that as he shall perish , so hi● blood shall be required at your ha●ds and that you shall as guilty hold up your hand at the barre for it . yea , th y av●rre , that this is more then arbitrary , tyrannicall ▪ papall domineering over the consciences of pastors , elders and godly people , to ●● s●andalous sinners intrude and come boldly to the lords table ▪ and the pastors and elders have no power to keep them backe . to which i answer ▪ i very much wonder at this strange divinity , never heard of in the world till of late , and that first among the anabaptists , from whence it was derived into o●● english soyle : but for a direct reply , i readily acknowledge that all desperate , sc●nd●lous , wicked ▪ obstin●te sinners , may be justly excōmunicated from the church ●nd s●craments ▪ after sever●ll previous admonitions for their sinful courses , & th●t being th●s excommunic●ted ▪ they ought ●ot to be admitted to the s●cr●ment nor any other publike ordin●nce til their open profession of sin●ere repentance ●●d re-admission to the church : but if ●ny such not thus proceeded ●gainst ●or excommunic●ted after due ●dmonitions , profer themselves ●t the lords table together with others , professing unf●ined rep●ntance for their sinne● past , and reformation of their lives for time to come ( a● every person vol●ntarily doth who resorts to the lords table ) in such a case the minister when he hath s●rio●sly ●dmonished them of the d●nger of unworthy r●ceiving , and dehorted them to come to the sacrament , unlesse they find th●mselves sufficiently prepared in their owne consciences , hath fully discharged his duty , and cannot repell them from this heavenly banquet ▪ and if i● this case they receive unworthily , he is no way guilty of their ●inne in the least degree , since he consented ●ot to it and did for●w●rne the● of it : to make this apparent to every mans capacity , i shall lay downe these six conclusions which i desire all christians , especially separatists and i●dependents , seriously to ponder . first , that eve●y visible member of ● visible church or congregation , not actu●lly secl●ded from it by excomm●nication for some notorious sca●dall , hath a true interest in , ●nd right unto every ordin●nce of christ ●d●inistred in that church , of which he is not made unc●p●ble by any naturall disability , as children , fooles , and distracted men are of receiving the lords supper , bec●use unable to ex●mine themselves ; to which notwithstanding they have been admitted in some ch●rche● . for pro●fe of this conclusion , i must lay downe another , which ●tterly s●bverts the very fo●nd●tion of separation●nd independency ; that the sacr●ments both of baptisme and the lords s●ppe● were beq●eathed by christ himselfe ( as all his other ordinance● ) ●ot only to his elect and regenerated children ▪ but to his visible ch●r●h on e●rth , and ●ll visible member● of it ; in which there alwayes hath bee● ▪ ●o● is , and ever will be ▪ a ●ixture both of good and bad , ch●●fe and wheat , exter●all and re●ll professors , hypocrites and sincere beleevers . hence it is all our opposite● unanimously grant ▪ that they ca●●ot refuse the sacrament to h●pocrites , or c●rnall morall christians , of civill ●nblam●ble life ●nd conversatio● , though there be no power of godli●esse in them , if they be not grosly ignor●●t , nor yet deny the sacrament of baptisme to their childre● ( which the apo●tle cal●saints or h●ly ) bec●●se they are members of the visible church ▪ to whom the sacaments of right belong , as such ; else they ●ight s●spend all s●ch from the lords s●pper upon this very ground ▪ that they are hypocrites , unregenerated ▪ unsanctified persons ▪ who have no right unto the sacraments as well as scandalous impenitent sinners ; from whence i argue thus , those who have a true right to the sacrament , as visible members of the visible church , ought not in justice or conscience to be deprived of it , in case they demand it , by any minister or presbytetery , mat. 24. 45 , 46 ▪ &c. luke 12. 42 , &c. compared with mat. 22 ▪ ● , to 15. 1 cor. 10 ▪ 1. to 7. 17. ● tim. 2. 24. 25 ▪ 26. but all unexcommnnicated christians ▪ who are able to examine themselves , as visible members of the visible church , have a trus right to the sacrament , in case they doe demand it , when publikely administred . ergo , they ought not in justice or conscience to be deprived of it by any minister or presbytery , when publikely administred , if they shall require it . the rather , because nothing but an actuall excommunication can suspend them from this their right , as an actuall o●tlary suspends men from the benefit of the law . secondly ▪ that every visible christian not actually excommunicated , who hath a right to the sacrament of baptism & hath bin admitted therunto ( which answers circumcision this seal of the covenant ) such only excepted , who by reason of infancy or other infirmitie● of nature , are unable to examine themselves , hath likewise as good a right to , and interest in the lords supper , the other seal of the covenant ( as some phrase it without a text ) which answers to the passeover ; even as every circumcised person under the law had a right to eat of the passover , and might not be debarred from it , as is formerly proved ; since no rationall christian is able to give a satisfactory re●son , why such should enjoy the benefit of one sacrament and yet not be admitted to the other , seeing that which entitles them to the one entitles them to the other , and that which debarres them from the one secludes them from the other : we read in the very apostles times , that a meere externall slight confession of sin and profession of the christian faith , was sufficient to enable sinners to be baptized ; hence simon magus , a meere dissembler , and symonaicall unregenerate wretch , was b●ptized by phillip as well as others who really repented and beleeved in christ , though he were in the gall of bitternesse and bond of iniquity , acts 8. 12. to 25. yea , many others who turned wolves , apostates , hereticks were baptized by the very apostles , onely upon their externall profession of christ , without any inward truth of grace , acts 20. 29. 30. 2 tim. 3. 1. to 6. rom. 16 17 18. 2 pet. 2. throughout iude 8. to 20. 1 ioh. 2. 18 19 and u●on a very sodain , seeming remorse for sin and confession of christ at the very first sermon without any delay or long examination of the sincery or truth of their faith or conversation , thousands with their whole housholds were baptized and admitted into the church by the apostles , act. 2 37 38. 4● . c. 8. 12. 13. ● . 10. 34. to the end ch. 16. 33. yea ▪ among the very anabaptists themselves both beyond the seas & at home , there are farre more hypocrites and carnall persons of ripe yeers rebap●i●ed ▪ then reall saints ▪ onely upon a bare externall profession of faith and repentance ▪ and so generally i● all other churches in the world , from christs time till this present : i● then the sacrament of baptisme hath in all ages , churches since its inst●●●tion ▪ and b● the very apostles themselves without any danger of si● or s●ruple of conscience be●n administred to all externall ●rofessors of christ and never denied to any suc● , ( or to their children , but by anabaptists ; ) then by the self ▪ same rea●on the ●a●●ament of the lords supper may and must be adminis●red to th●● , w●●n t●ey ●●nder themselves among others to receive it , and can neither in point of conscience or christianity be justly with ▪ held from them by any ministery or presbytery whatsoever , if not actually excommunicated for some ●otorious s●●ndall , the one being as much a tr●● sacrament as the other , if not of more absol●●e necessity then the other : upon which ground , i shall challe●ge all my opposites ▪ to shew me any divine charter or president in scriptu●e authorizing them to suspend any unexcomm●●icated christians , able to exmine themselves , and willing to comm●nica●e , from receiving the sacrament of the lords supper , whom they ●ave formerly deemed fit to receive and could not deny him the sacrament of baptisme : till this be done , they must pardo● me for not subscribing to any such pretended authority by divine right . thirdly , that it is the ministers bounden duty to administer the sacraments to their people , as well as to preach and pray , mark 16. 15 , 16. matth. 28. 19 , 20. acts 2. 41 , 42. chap. 8. 12 , 13. chap. 10. 47 , 48. 1 cor. 10. 16. chap. 11. 23. to 28. therefore they can no more deny to administer this sacrament to those of their congregation who are not excommunicated , then ref●se to preach the gospell to them , or pray with them : what paul writes of preaching the gospell , necessity i● laid upon me , andw●● is me if i preach not the gospell ▪ 1 cor. 9. 16 , the same may ministers apply to their administrng the sacrament , woe to us if we administer it not when de●ired ; the r●ther because it is now a received principle among presbyterians , and professedly agreed by our reverend brother of scotland i● his fast sermon ; that no private minister hath any jurisdiction in himself to keepe back● any from the sacrament , but onely the whole classis or presbytery . fourthly , that though god hath originally in his primary intention ordained his gospell and sacraments ( which are rich mercies in themselves , ) only for the comfort and salvation of those who worthily receive them ; yet he hath secondarily instituted them to be the savour of death unto death , and a means of aggravating the sins and condemnation of such who shall wilfully conte●ne , abuse , or unworthily receive them , 1 cor. 11. 25. to 30. 2 cor. 2 ▪ 15 , 16. matth. 10. 14 , 15. mark 16. 15 , 16. l●ke 8. 18. heb. 6. 6 , 7 ▪ 8. iohn 15. 22. 2 pet. 2. 21. ezek. 2. 3. to 9. yea ▪ christ himselfe , tho●gh he be a most sweet saviour in his owne ●at●re and gods pri●itive intentio● , yet accidentally he is set for the fall , as well as for the rising of many in israel , luke 2. 34. ●ay , for a stone of st●●bling and rocke of off●nce , for a gin , and for a snare ; at ●●d against which ●any shall stumble and fall , ●nd be broken , and s●ared , and taken , isa. 8. 14 , 15 , chap. 2● . 16. rom. 9. 33. 1 pe●. 28. matth. 21. 44. luke 20. 18. so ●re his word ●●d sacraments too , accidentally set ( by reason of me●● corruptions and ●●worthy , ●●profitable particip●tio● of them ; ) for the fall and ruine , as well as the salvation of 〈◊〉 . fiftly , that god onely i●fallibly knows the he●●ts and present state of all men , not any minister or presbytery , 2 chron. 6. 30. acts 1. 24. 2 tim. 2. 19. 1 sam. 16. 5. to 14. matth. 26. 21 ▪ 22. iohn . 2 , 24 ▪ 25. that he can convert and change ●●●s hearts and lives in a m●ment ▪ and make them meet co●●nicants though●● cannot discerne them to be such ▪ acts 3. 9. to 28. chap. 2. 37 ▪ 38. &c. rom. 11. 3 ▪ 4 ▪ 5 ▪ he can sodainly give th●m a white ston● , with a new name written in it , which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it , revel● 2. 17. and therefore if we see any desirous to receive the sacrament , to be penitent in outward shew and profession , we ought in the judgement of ch●●ity to esteem them such , since we cannot infallibly discern● and search their hearts ▪ 1 ●or . 13. 5. 7. phil. 2. 3. heb ▪ 6. 9. mat. 7. 1. rom. 14 ▪ 4. to 15. sixthly , that no ministers private judgement , or conscience ought to be the rule of his admitting any to ▪ or suspending them from the sacrament : for first , there is no text nor cla●se of s●ri●tu●e that makes his private judgement or conscience such a rule : secondly , if a minister should have power to deny the sacrament ( under pain of sin ▪ ye● punishmentt , as some men ●each ) ●o every communicant he deems unmeet or unworthy , before actuall convictio● of his unworthinesse in the presbytery , then it would rest in the power of every particular minister , how justly or unjustly soever , to admit or se●l●de from the sacrament whom ever his cōscience or judgment should think fit ; which would introduce the most exorbitant arbitrary papall jurisdiction , usurpation over the consciences ▪ priviledges of christians & ordinances of christ , that was ever yet heard of or exer●ised in the christian world ; make every minister more thē a pope every member of a congregation worse then a slave , and give greater authority to every ordinary pastor , then ever christ or ●is apostles exercised , or the pope or prelats hitherto claimed . thirdly , then it would inevitably follow , that in case the whole presbytery , classis or synod should deem a man , upon any appe●l unto them against his ministers unjust suspension , worthy and fit to receive the sacrament ; yet if his ministers judgement and conscience be not satisfied ▪ but he deems him still ●nworthy , he may , will and must still refuse to administer the sacrament to him , notwithstanding their resolution , else he should offend against his owne judgement and conscience . so on the other side , if the presbytery , classis ▪ synod , should vote any man unworthy and unfit to communicate ▪ yet if the minister think him fit he may , wil and must admit him to the sacrament if he r●quire it lest he should sin against his conscience ; and then to what end serve presbyteries classes , synods , or appeales unto them in such ●ases ; since upon my opposites objected ▪ princi●les ( if they will adhere unto them ) not their resolutions ▪ but every particular ministers private j●dgment , conscience , is and ought to be the sole canon and directory which he will , must and ought to follow , and then to what a miserable slavery shall we be re●●●ed , if every minister may have snch authority to lord it over the lords inheritances and ordinances too , let all prudent men determine . these six conclusions premised , which have utterly overt●rned the very foundations o● this strange objection , and laid the opposites on their backs ; i answer directly , that a minister in delivering the sacrament to a scandalous , unexcomm●nicated person , who ●fter admonition of the danger , doth earnestly desire to receive it , as conceiving himselfe in his owne heart and conscience meet to participate of it , becomes no way guilty of his si●ne or punishment , in case he eat and drink judgement by his ●nworthy receiving of it : my reasons are th●se ; first , because this receiver being not excommunicated , hath a true ●ight to this sacrament , as a vi●●ble member of the visible church , as well as to baptisme and other ordinan●●s ; therefore the ministers cannot in point of conscience debarr● hi● fro● it . secondly , be●●use he hath no commission from christ to keep bac● ▪ such a person , nor yet any such power from the church or state . thirdly , because every communicant is to examine himselfe and his owne conscience between god & him , whether he be fit to receive the sacrament or not , and to be the judge of his owne heart , which no other can so truly discerne as himselfe , 1 cor. 11. 28. 31. 2 cor. 13. 6. gal. 6. 4. 5. jer. 17. 9. 1 cor. 2. 11. and if he judge himselfe fitly prepared , joynes with others in the publike confession of his sinnes , and promiseth newnesse of life , the minister ought in point of charity to deem him so , and hath no commission from christ to exclude him ; when christ himselfe instituted and administred this sacrament , we read not of any examination made by him of his disciples fitnesse or preparednesse to receive it ; nor yet of paul or any other apostle or minister in the new testament , that made any such particular scrutiny into other communicants consciences to try their fitnesse or unfitnesse , as some now magisterially take upon them to make by way of jurisdiction ▪ not advice , derived originally from popish tyranny , and their exploded practice of auricular confession to a priest , before the receiving of the sacrament ▪ : all the power they claimed or exercised in this kind ▪ was onely by way of councell ; let a man therefore examine himselfe , not others , or others him ( say all old and new expositors on the text ) and if they may not examine , then much lesse judge or seclude him as unworthy ▪ without examination or knowledge of his heart , which god onely knowes and searcheth , and himself . fourthly , because he administers the sacrament to him as to a person outwardly fitted and prepared , the inward preparation of whose heart , for ought he knowes may be sincere towards god , & really changed from what it was before . fifthly , because the administration of the sacrament is an holy lawfull action , and gods ordinan●ce in the minister , who delivers it onely as gods ordinance , in obedi●nce to his command , with a good intention to benefit all , and hurt none by it . sixthly , because such a persons unworthy receiving is onely contingent and casuall ; no minister , or creature being able infallibly to judge , whether god at this instant ▪ out of his abundant mercy , may not by the omnipotent working of his spirit , in the preparatory examinations , prayers , exhortations before the act of receiving , & in the very receiving it selfe ( the sacrament being as well a meanes to beget as confirme grace ) change both his heart and life , and make him eat and drink salvation , instead of damnation to himselfe . seventhly , because all our opposites accord , that ministers may and ought to admister the sacrament to masked hypocrites , and unregenerate civill morall christians , who live not in open scandalous sinners , though these for want of faith and sincere repentance doe all eat and drink judgement to themselves as well as scandalous open sinners : yea , most of them acknowledge , that if the classis or pre●bytery , shall judge any man whom the minister deems ignorant , scandalous and unworthy to communicate ; to be a meet communicant , contrary to the ministers judgement and conscience , yet he may nay must admit and administer the sacrament to him . i would then demand of my antagonists , whether in this case the minister be guilty of these receivers sinnes and unworthy receiving ? or whether their similitude of a cup of poyson holds in such a case ? if yea then why wil they thus inforce them to commit a sin against their conscience● ▪ and to par●ake of other mens sins in these cases by administring the sacrament to them ? if not , then they yeeld their objection false , in the case of scandalous persons too , there being the same ●●worthy p●rticipation in both . seventhly , because the minist●r onely gives the sacrament , and the unworthy rec●iving , is the receivers owne personall act and sinne alone , not the minist●rs , as is his unworthy hearing , praying , acting . eighthly , because else christ , who was guilty of no sinne , sho●ld have been partaker of i●das his sinne and u●worthy receiving , in administring the sacrament to him , knowing him infallibly to be a traytor , theefe , devill , and sonne of perdition , which were blasphemy to affirm : and if it were no sin in christ , then not in others , to give the sacrament to known unworthy receivers , since they do but follow his example . ninthly , because the minister in administring the sacrament , is a sweet savour of christ , as well in those that perish by it , as in those that are saved and benefitted by it , as he is in preaching the gospell ; god having appointed it secondarily and contingently ( as well as his word ) to be a means of aggravating mens sins and condemnation , to magnifie his justice , as well as an instrument of grace and salvation to magnifie his mercy , 1 cor. 11. 25. to 30. finally , the holy ghost himselfe expresly resolves in positive tearms , that he that eateth and drinketh unworthily , eateth & drinketh damnation or judgment to himselfe ( not to the minister or other communicants , ) and drawes guilt , judgements onely upon himselfe , verse 27 , 30 , 31. thus all the ancient and moderne comentators on this text , together with gratian , causa 1. quest . 1. iv● carnot●nsis decretal . secunda pars , resolve unanimously against the donatists ; and this the objectors owne practice heretofore , in delivering the sacrament to such , without thinking themselves guilty of their sin , having exhorted , admonished them of the danger , and so done what in them lay to keepe them off , refutes . this new doctrine therefore of theirs , is point-blank against the scripture , saint pauls expresse resolution , the practice and judgement of all antiquity , their owne opinions , practice heretofore , and others now ; whether of these are to be credited herein , let themselves determine . finally , the word {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , in this text , which you render damnation , signifies naught else but judgement , as the margin of our bibles render it ; that is , some temporall judgement , as sicknesse , weaknesse , death , and such like punishments , as v. 30 , 31 , 32. directly expounds it , and most expositors on this text resolve ; not eternall condemnation , as you misinterpret it , as mat. 5. 21 ▪ 22. c. 7. 1 , 2. 1 pet. 4. 7. will fully clear . therefore the very founda●ion of this objection , is a meere mistake . as for the much pressed similitude of a cup of poyson , which hath deluded many , it is but a meere fallacy , and differs in many particulars from the cup in the lords supper : for first , the cup in the lords supper is no poyson in it selfe , neither can any minister certainly determine , that it will prove poyson to the soule of any one par●icular communicant , no more then the word or other ordinances ; for it may for ought he knowes , prove a soveraigne medicine to those very persons through gods blessing , to whom he thoug 〈◊〉 it might prove poyson ; and therefore if a physician give a whole some potion to one , to whom it may in probability prove a medicine , not a poyson ; and it proves poyson to him onely by accident , through his distemper who receives it ( as many physicall potions doe ) this certainly is neither man-slaughter nor murther in the physician , as the objectors ignorantly mistake , ( for then i doubt all the physicians obout london would soon take a ●urne at tibur●● . ) set then the similitude right , as it stands paralell with the sacrament in this respect , and it vanisheth into nothing , or else turnes against you : secondly , it is a meere arbitrary , voluntary act in men to give a poisonous potion to him that shall demand it , & they have free power to keep it from him if they please : but on the contrary , the minister hath no power to deny the sacramentall cup and bread to any seeming penitents that desire it , and doth but his duty in administring it , as i have manifested ; therefore it can be no crime in him : thirdly , you may make the same argument against the ministers preaching the gospell to obstinate scandalous sinners , since his very preaching doth encrease their sinnes and damnation , as well as his administring the sacraments to them , mat. 10. 14 , 15. heb. 6. 6 , 7 , 8. now whereas they object , that the admission of unexcommunicated wicked scandalous persons to the sacrament , is more then an arbitrary , tyrannicall , papall domineering over the consciences of ministers , elders , and godly people : it 's a meere untruth and scandalous assertion , as all the premises demonstrate ; never affirmed by any classicke author till this age ; and though a real errour in many consciencious persons who beleeve it as a truth , yet i fear & partly know , that many who now object & urge it , do not cordially beleev it as a truth , but rather make use of it as a received error the more easily to usurp unto themselves a meere arbitrary , if not tyrannicall authority over their congregations consciences , and gods ordinances , in admitting to , excluding from them whom they please : the very extremity of that arbitrary , episcopall , papall power , which we solemnly vow against in our nationall covenant , and have taken up arms against in the field : and so much concerning this grand difference , the importance whereof hath made me more prolix and copious . the eighth thing in controversie is , whether ministers may not as well refuse to preach the word to such unexcommunicated grosse impenitent , scandalous christians , whom they would suspend from the sacrament , for feare of partaking with them in , and being guilty of their sinnes , as to administer the sacrament to them ? since their unprofitable hearing of the word , is every wayes as dangerous , as damning a sinne to their soules , as their ●nworthy receiving the sacrament , and those who eat and drink damnation to themselves , in the one , doe but heare and multiply damnation to themselves in the other ? 2 cor. 2. 14 , 15 , 16. mat. 10. 14 , 15. mark 16. 15 , 16. luke 8. 18. heb. 2. 1 , 2. chap. 2. 7 , 8. chap. 6. 6 , 7 , 8. the rather , because that oft alleaged text of matth. 7. 6. give not that which is holy unto dogs , neither cast you your pearles before swine , least they trample the● under their feet , and turne againe and teare you : is properly meant of preaching the word , t●o administing the sacrament unto such ; as is evident by mat. 10. 14. mark 16. 15 , 16. acts 13. 46. 51. and whether any reason can be given by our opposites , why such as these should be admitted by themselves , to heare the word , without any scruple , guilt , or participation of their sinnes , and yet be totally secluded from this sacrament , under paine of being guilty of their unworthy receiving ? to this pressing demand , our antagonists answer v●riously , putting sundry groundlesse differences , between the preaching of the word , and administration of the sacraments , which i shall severally examine . first , they say , that a minister preacheth the word to many unprofitable hearers , not knowing them to he such , in hope to convert and profit them , if there be any such in the auditory : so also he gives the sacraments to some unworthy receivers , not knowing them to be such , with an intention to doe them good : and in such cases he is blamlesse : ( thus far then there is no such difference , as is surmised . ) but ●f he give the holy seals of christs body and blood to scandalous and impenitent persons , he knows he gives them damnation to eat and drink ; and is half sharer with them in the sinfull act ; so that though unworthy hearing and receiving be equally damnable , to the hearers and receivers , yet not equally dangerous to the ministers . i answer to this latter clause , wherein the difference is pretended : first , that the minister doth as certainly know , that if he preach the word to obstinate , scandalous , impenitent sinners , he doth but preach damnation to them in his sermons , as that he doth give damnation to them in the sacrament mark ▪ 16. 16. heb. 6. 6 , 7 , 8. matth. 10. 14. 15. and those whom he certainly knowes to be such scandalous and impenitent receivers , he cannot but know ●o be first impenitent , scandalous hearers , since the sermon preceeds the sacrament : therefore if he be guilty of their sin or damnation , in giving the sacrament to them , he must be likewise in preaching to them . secondly , this evasion is built upon two false principles : first , that a minister may and doth ●ertainly know , that if he give the sacrament to one who hath been formerly an impenitent scandalous sinner , but now comes openly and confesseth his sinnes , promiseth reformation for time to come , and is desirous to receive the sacramentall signes of the pardon of his sinnes , with the rest of the congregation , with expresse promise and desire to become a new man ( as all receivers ever externally doe ) that he gives him damnation to eat and drink : this i am certaine no minister can infallibly know or affirme , because he knows not the present change or inclination of his heart , or whether god by ●his very duty may not really convert him : secondly , that the minister who sorewarnes men of the danger of unworthy receiving , and admonisheth the communicants seriously to examine themselves , and come prepared to the sacrament , or else to forbeare , is guilty of the unworthy rec●ivers sinnes ; which i have already disproved . therefore this diversity vanisheth into smoke . secondly , they alleadge ; that the lords holy table in the holy communi●n , 〈◊〉 a place of gods more holy presence then the common auditory , where we come neerer unto god ▪ and receive with the word and promis●s particularly appli●d to 〈◊〉 the seales of o●r co●●union with christ , and of our right and int●res● in him , and all his benefits : but preaching to a co●●on auditory , is a generall pr●pounding of the word and promises to all , not a particular application of it to any : therfore there it ●ore danger and greater sinne in admitting ●●worthy receivers to the lords table , then in preaching to them ; at app●ares in aarons two sonnes , levit. 19. 1 , 2 , 3. and uzzah , 2 sam. 6. 7. to which i answer ; first , that the beginning of this distinction , is just the late archbishop of canterburies doctrine , in his speech in starre-chamber ( so much distasted in former times ) who produceth this for a reason , why we should bow to the table and altar , not to the pulpit , pag. 47. we must bow towards the altar as the greatest place of gods presence on earth ; i say the greatest , yea greater then the pulpit ; for there it is , hoc est corpus meum , this is my body ; but in the pulpit , ▪ t is at ●ost but ▪ hoc est verbum meum , this is my word ; and a greater reverence no doubt is du● to the body , then to the word of the lord ; and so in relation answerably to the thr●n● where hii body is usually present , then to the seat whence his word useth to be proclai●ed ; which i have elsewhere at large refuted , proving gods presence and spirit , to be as much , a● really present in other ordinances as in this , from matth. 28. 20. and other texts . secondly , this passage proves this sacrament to be as converting , yea , a more converting ordinance , then preaching of the word , which my antagonists positively deny . thirdly , in the preaching of the word , there is or ought to be a particular application of it to all the auditors severall consciences , sinnes , conditions , as well as in the administration of the sacraments : witnesse experience , and acts 2. 23. 37. 38 , 39 , 40 , 41. chap. 3. 14 , 15 , 17 , 19. matth : 24. 45 , 46. luke 12. 42. therefore this is a difference without a diversity . fourthly , the examples of arons sonnes , and uzzah , are impertinently alleaged , since they relate not to the sacrament , and rather respect unworthy ministers , then communicanst . thirdly , they object , that the minister in giving the sacrament to knowne impenitent sinners , pr●acheth ●ost palpable lyes against his owne conscience , when he s●●h , the body of christ was broken for you , and his blood shed for you ; when as in preaching the word , the ministers of christ propound the truth to wicked men generally , but not partic●larly apply any word of co●fort , or pro●ise of blessing to any ●●profitable hearers , b●t ●pon condition of repentance . to this i answer ; first , that the minister doth not administer the sacrament to any knowne impenitent sinners under that notion , but onely as penitent sinners , truly repenting of their sinnes past , and promising , purposing to lead a new life for the future , as the exhortations before the sacrament and their publike confessions before the whole congregation manifest . secondly , he useth these words , the body of christ which was broken , and the blood of christ shed for yo● &c. not absolutely , but conditionally onely ▪ in case they receive the sacrament worthily , and become penitent and beleeving receivers , as they all pro●esse themselves to be , just so as they preach repentance and remi●sion to their auditors ; therefore the case is just the same in both without any difference . thirdly , the particular delivery and recitall of the words by the minister to every communicant , is not simply necessary , nor of divine , but humane institution onely , though usually and warrantably practised amongst us . therefore this new distinction is of no moment . fourthly , they surmise , that they have an expresse command to preach the gospell to every creature without exception , to pagans as well as christians , matth. 28. 19 , 20. marke 16. 15. rom. 10. 18. but they have no such command to administer the sacrament to all , but onely to worthy receivers . i answer ; first , that this precept principally respectes none but the apostles , who were sent to preach the gospell to all nations and creatures , and endued with the gif● of tongues to that purpose ; not ordinary preachers , who confine themselves usually to particular congregations , countries , and have no extraordinary guift of tongues enabling them to preach to all naions in their owne language , as the apostles had , acts 2. secondly , though the sacrament must not be administred to heathens , to whom the gospell may and must be preached , before they beleeve and professe christ ; yet it must be administred to them as well as baptisme , after their beliefe and profession of christ ; since it appeares by the very objected texts , that as they were to preach the gospell to all nations , creatures , and sorts of men , so they were to baptize them likewise , and by consequence to administer the other sacrament of the lords supper to them , as well as baptisme : as the 1 cor. 10. 1. to 6. 16 , 17. 21. chap. 11. 20. to 34. compared with matth. 26. 20. 27 , 28. marke 14. 18 , &c. luke 22. 14 , &c. manifest . thirdly , the sacrament of the lords supper belongs of right to all visible knowing members of the visible church , as well as the sacrament of baptisme , as i have formerly evidenced ; and as the confession of saxony resolves in these tearmes ; the sacraments of baptisme and the lords supper are so instituted , that every man may use them , because they be pledges and testimonies , which declare , that the benefits promised in the gospell doe ap●rtaine to every one ; for the voyce of the gospell is generall , &c. this distinction therefore is invalid . fifthly , they consent , that they ought not to preach the word , to scandalous impenitent sinners , who turne apostates , wilfull scorners and persec●tors of the gospell , who doe but the more rage and are ●ardned thereby ; it being a prophanation of holy things , a giving of holy things to dogges , and a casting of pearls before swine , mat. 7. 6. chap. 10. 14. acts 14. 51. ergo , they must not give this sacrament to such . i answer , that by this they fully grant what i contend for , to wit , that such dogges and swine who ought to be suspended from the sacraments , ought likewise to be suspended from hearing the word ; so that they do herein justifie and subscribe to my opinion instead of refutingit . for my part , i never contested ▪ that such dogs and swine as these , ought to be admitted to the sacrament , but they ought to be totally excommunicated , as well from the word , and all other ordinances , as from the lords supper ; not secluded from it alone , and admitted to all the rest : only here the question between us will be , who are those dogges and swine that our saviour intends , matth. 7. 6 ? certainly not every christian that relapseth againe and againe into severall scandalous sinnes , against his pomises , vowes , covenants , as the best men many times may doe , by reason of the strength of their sins and corruptions , before they can totally subdue them pro. 24 , 16. psal. 34. 19. psal. 38. 3 , 4. psal. 40. 12. james 3. 2. matth. 18. 22 gal. 6. 1. nor yet every scandalous sinner , who repaires to the word and sacraments , with a desire to heare and receive the same , and joynes with the congregation in the externall confession and bewailing his of sinnes , promising , vowing repentance and a new life ; surely such a● these are no dogges nor swine within our saviours precept , as you surmise ; for then by your owne confessions , you ought not to preach unto them , but seclude them from the word , ( of which this text is principally intended , ) as well as sacraments ; but onely such infidels and heathens who refused to embrace and beleeve the gospell , andharbour or entertaine the preachers of it ( which many scandalous sinners are very willing to doe ) or such open contemners , persecutors of the gospel and ministers of it , who run upon and teare the preachers thereof , trampling the pearls of the gospell , and the tenderers of them under their feet , as the text resolves in terminis , matth. 7. 6. chap. 10. 14 , 15. luke 9. 5. acts 13. 46 , &c. or , open apostates from the christian faith , which they once embraced , but after , return with the dogg● to his vomit , and the sow that is washed , to her wallowing in the myre , trampling under feet the sonne of god , and counting the blood of the covenant wherewith they were sanctified , an unholy thing , offering despight to the spirit of grace , denying the very lord that bought them , and contemning christ himselfe ( as julian the apostate , with others did ) a● saint peter and paul expresly determine , 2 pet. 2. 1 , 2. 21. 22. heb. 10. 28 , 29. chap. 6. 4. to 9. to apply this text then to such scandalous sinners , who duly repaire to the publike ordinances , desire to participate in them , and externally professe reformation and repentance ( of which the controversie onely is ) is a meere perverting of this text , and an application of it unto such , whom christ did never intend thereby , as these parallel texts demonstrate : however , certaine i am , this text extends not to any pious , penitent , beleeving christians , truly fearing god , who out of judgement , conscience , dare not joyn with sectaries in their new independent wayes of separation , to whom our independent ministers , anabaptists , & other separatists , are so uncharitable , unchristian , that they will not admit them nor their children to the sacraments , in their separate congregations , nor communicate with them upon any tearmes , for feare of giving that which is holy to dogges , and casting pearles before swine ; such , and no better are the holiest , best of our presbyterian ministers , and churchmembers estimated in their uncharitable pharisaicall , unbrotherly opinions . god grant unto them more charity , and lessespirituall pride , which of all sinnes ●he , d●serves most to be excommunicated out of all christian hearts and congregations . but their sixth and last difference , wherein they all accord , yea place their strength , ( being indeed the very foundation of their mistake , ) this great controversie of suspension from the sacrament , & so requiring a fuller answer , is that which ou● reverend brother of scotland insisted on i● his conorov●sall fas● sermon , that the preaching of the word is a converting ordinance , and therefore ought to be preached to scandalous sinners , to convert them from their sins ; but the sacrament of the lords supper is no converting , but onely a sealing and confirming ordinance , instituted , not to beget , but ●ncrease faith and rep●●tance where they are formerly b●gun ; and therefore not to be administred to such , to whom they can seale no pardon of sinne , nor covenant of grace . the same distinction hath likewise been used in a sermon at wool-chu●ch , and is subscribed to by all the three printed answers to my four queries . to which i answer ; first , that the sacrament of the lords supper is a converting as well as a sealing ordinance . for the better cleering wherof , we must distinguish of two sorts of conversion and sealing , which our antagonists , to delude the vulgar , have ignorantly , wilfully or injudiciously confounded : first , there is an externall conversion of men from pag●●is●e or gentilisme , to the externall profession of the p●ith of christ ; which is ordinarily wrought by the preaching of the word ; or extraordinarily , by miracles without the word preached , in reference to those without the church ; but ordinarily effected by the sacrament of baptisme , in reference to infants of christian parents borne within the church , which sacrament both admits and makes them members of the visible church ( without the preaching of the word of which infants are not capable , ) acts 2. 37. to 43. 1 pet. 3. 20 21. joh. 3. 5. 1 cor. 7. 14. secondly , there is a conversion from a meere externall formall profession of the doctrine and faith of christ , to an inward spirituall embracing and application of christ , with his merits and promises to our soules , by the saving grace of faith , and to an holy christian reall change of heart and life : in this last conversion , the sacrament of the lords supper is not onely a sealing or confirming , but likewise a regenerating and converting ordinance , as well as the word . there is likewise a double sealing ( if we admit this sacrament or baptisme to be seales , though never once * stiled seals in any scripture text : ) 1. a visible externall sealing of the pardon of sin , & gods promises in the blood of christ to our outward sences . 2. an internall invisible sealing of them by the spirit , working in , by the word and sacraments , to our soules : in the first sense , this sacrament is a seale to all receivers , even to those who are scandalous and unworthy , who receive only the outward elements ; in the second sence , only to worthy , penitent , beleeving receivers , who receivethe inward invisible grace as wel as the outward signes : the first , seales all gods promises and a free pardon of all our sinnes onely conditionally , if we truly repent , lay hold on christs passion , merits , promises , and apply them to our soules by a lively saving faith , and sincere repentance ; the second seales them to us absolutely , because we have thus embraced and applyed them . these distinctions premised , we may easily discover the falsity of the antagonists surmise , that this sacrament is no converting , but onely a sealing ordinance ; and that onely to true beleevers , and worthy receivers , to whom alone it seals the pardon of sinne , and promises of the gospell ; for proofe whereof , they produce neither reason nor scripture , but their owne bare confident groundlesse assertions , which i shall thus refute because it is a very common dangerous error . first , our antagonists unanimously grant , that the sacrament belongs to all unscandalous members of the visible church , capable of self-examination , and not actually excommunicated , to close hypocrites , & morall carnal christians , not really regenerated , converted , yea to scandalous persons unconvicted , whom they professe no minister hath any power to suspend from the sacrament , upon his owne particular private knowledge of their guilt . if then the sacrament be onely a sealing or confirming ordinance of true grace , when and where it is already begun , then it were altogether impertinent and ineffectuall unto civill carnall christians ; therefore do ubtlesse it is and was intended by christ for a conv●rting ordinance to all such as these , to turne them from their evill wayes , and work saving grace within their hearts , since it can have no other proper primary effect in such : certainly god and christ bestow no ordinances upon men in vaine ; therefore their intentions in instituting this supper even for such visible morall unregenerate christians , as well as reall saints , must necessarily be for their conversion , not their confirmation and sealingonely , in that sense as they interpret it . secondly , all ordinances of christ that tend to edification , confirmation , or encrease of grace , are more or lesse conducent to begin or beget grace , converting , as well as strengthening ordinances ; the preaching , reading , hearing of the word , which comfort , strengthen and build up men in grace , doe likewise ( by our antagonists free confessions ) convert and beget grace ; why then should not the sacrament doe the like ? ●ince gods spirit equally breathes and works in all his ordinances , and may and doth regenerate and beget grace in mens souls , by what ordinance he thinks best , working in and by every ordinance , as well as by any : the rather , because christ instituted this sacrament to be frequently received , when a● baptisme only is but once administred , for this very end , that those who often fall into sin through infirmity , may likewise by this supper often rise againe , be refreshed , comforted , and get strength against their sinnes and corruptious : and is it not then a converting as well as a co●firming ordinance , fit for sinners to resort to ? the sacraments are by all divines whatsoever , and the very directory , page 52. ever enumerated among the means of grace and salvation ; why then should they not be meanes of converting and begetting grace , as well as strengthning and consirming it ? as your selves affirme . thirdly , the very receiving of the sacrament , even in unregenerate persons , is for the most part accompanied with such particulars , as are most effectual to convert & beget grace in mens hearts : as first , with a previous externall ▪ serious examination of their own hearts and estates , between god & their owne consciences , for which there are divers pious rules and directions published in printed books of devotion , which most communicants ordinarily read and make use of before their resort to the lords table . secondly , a solemne searching out of all their open or secret sinnes and corruptions , past or present , accompanied with a serious , particular , private confession of them , a hearty contrition and humiliation for them , private prayers to god for pardon of , yea power and strength against them ; secret purposes , vowes and resolutions for ever to relinquish , war , strive , fight against them , and avoid all occasions which may ensnare them in them . thirdly , sundry pious , soul-ravishing meditations , both in regard of their sinnes , gods mercy and justice , christs merits , death , passion , the end and use of the sacraments , &c. which make deep temporary impressions on their hearts , spirits , and work an extraordinary change both in their resolutions , minds , spirits , conversations for the present , and many times for the future . fourthly , flexanimous exhortations ; admonitions , comminations , directions , prayers by the ministers in the congregation , before , in , & after this duty , which operate , penetrate more upon sacrament-dayes , upon communicants of all sorts ( as experience manifests ) then at other seasons . now whether the receiving of this sacrament , usually accompanied , and set on upon mens spirits , with such most effectuall powerfull , likely meanes of conversion , be not a most apt and proper ordinance to regenerate , reclaime , convert ungodly , scandalous sinners , and more likely to regenerate and change their hearts , lives , then the bare word preached , or any other ordinance , at least wise more effectuall to convert and amend them , then any rigorous suspensions of them from the sacrament , let every mans conscience and experience judge . fourthly , all our antagonists accord , that we have a more immediate intercourse and communion with god and christ in this sacrament , then in any other ordinance whatsoever , where in the outward elements we behold christs death and passion visibly represented to our eyes , and by them unto our hearts , and more lively , more particularly applyed , and the remission of our sins more sensibly sealed to us then in any other ordinance ; from whence i thus infallibly conclude against these opposites : that ordinance wherein we most immediatly converse with god and christ , and have more intimate visible , sensible communion with them then in any other , is certainly the most powerfull and effectuall ordinance of all othecs , to humble , regenerate , conve t , and beget true grace within us , and most probable converting ordinance of all others ; because the manifestation , revelation and proximity of god and christ to the soule , is that which doth most of all humble and convert it , as is evident by job , chap. 38. to 41. compared with chap. 42. 1. to 7. isa. 6. 1. to 9. luke 5. 7 , 8 , 9. psal. 148. 14. isa. 55. 6. zeph. 3. 2. hab. 10. 21. eph. 2. 13. 17. james 4. 8. but the sacrament of the lords supper by our antagonists own confession is such : ergo , it is a converting , as well as a confirming ordinance . fifthly , what is it that makes the word it selfe a converting ordinance ? ●s it not the particular revelation and application of the promises of the gospell , of christs merits , death and passion to the soule , by gods holy spirit , not the meere outward voyce or sound ? 1 cor. 1. 23 , 24. chap. 2. 2. to 6. if so , as all must grant , then certainly this sacrament , which by our antagonists confession , doh most particularly , fully , lively , effectually , and sensibly apply the promises , yea , the death , passion and merits of christ unto every communicants eyes , eares , heart and soule , far livelier then the word preached doth , 1 cor. 11. 14. to 30. gal. 3. 2. must be a converting ordinance , and not a meere consirming ordinance , as they pretend . sixthly , all grant , that god doth as effectually teach , convert & work grace by the eye , as eare ; for first , the very book of nature and contemplation of the creatures instruct us , that there is an invisible god , & is enough to leav men without excuse , and through gods blessing sufficient to raise up excellent meditations tending both to sanctification and conversion , psal. 8. 3. to 9. psal. 19. 1 , 2 , 3. ps. 100. & 104. throughout , job 31. to 42. rom. 1. 28. to 25. acts 17. 23. to 30. c. 14. 17. secondly , all the externall sacrifices of the old law , together with the sacraments of circumcision and the passeover , did instruct and teach gods people who participated of them , or were present at them , by the eye , and were both edifying and converting ordinances , as well as confirming , as all doe and must acknowledge . thirdly , the severall miracles of the prophets under the law , of christ and his apostles under the gospell ( which converted thousands without preaching ) did convert and regenerate men by the eye without the eare ; the very sight of the miracles being the ground and cause of their conversion and beleeving , john 2. 11. 23. chap. 3. 2. chap. 4. 52 , 53 , 54. chap. 6. 2. 26. ch. 7. 31. chap. 16. 41. 4. chap. 12. 18. 19. chap. 11. 45 , 47 , 48. acts 1. 12. to 17. chap. 6. 7 , 8. chap. 8. 6. 13. chap. 15. 12. acts 19. 11 , 12. matth. 15. 30 , 31. luke 5. 25 , 26. 1 kings 18. 38 , 39. exod. 18. 31. fourthly , experience and scripture informe us , that the things we see with our eyes , doe more affect and beget deeper impressions in our hearts , then the things we heare , lam. 3. 51. hence is that speech of our saviour himselfe , to those who had the happinesse to see his person ; blessed are your eyes , for they see , &c. matth. 6. 16. luk. 10. 23. hence old simeon , when he beheld our saviour , was so ravished at the sight , that he brake out into these patheticall expressions ; lord now lettest th●n thy servant depart in peace , according to thy word , for mine eyes have seen thy salvation , &c. luke 2. 29 , 30. yea , luke expresly records , chap. 23. v. 46 , 47 , 48. that when the centurian saw our saviour on his crosse , giving up the ghost , he glorified god saying , certainly this man was a righte●us man : and all the people that cane together to that sight , beholding the things that were done , s●ote their breasts and returned . if then all these visible objects , sacraments , sacrifices , types , miracles , and the very beholding of christs person , passion , without the word , were the most effectuall meanes of working contrition , conversion , beliefe and faith in christ in the spectators , by the eye ; why should not the visible expressions of christs crucified body , blood-shed , passion on the crosse , most lively presented to our eyes and sences in this sacrament , even as if christ himselfe were againe actually crucified before our eyes , gal. 3. 1. 1 cor. 11. 25 , 26. have the like effectuall converting , regenerating operation on our hearts and spirits , as well as these other visible objects ? seventhly , all divines accord , that the most humbling , melting , sin-purging , mollifying , soul-changing meditation of all others that men can fix on , is the serious contemplation of christs bitter death and passion on the crosse ; that our particular sinnes did wound , pierce , not onely his hands , feet , side , but his very soule ; that he was bruised for our iniquities , &c. and yet that such is his suparlative goodnesse , mercy , pity , that forgetting all these indignities ▪ provocations , he heales us by those his very wounds which we have made , and washeth away our sinnes in that very blood of his , which we have shed . no meditation comparable to this , to reclaime ah obstinate sinner , mollifie an adamantine heart , humble a proud spirit , reforme a sinfull life , regenerate and convert a carnall heart . and is not this most passionately , lively , really and effectually represented to our eyes , hearts , in this very sacrament , in a more powerfull prevailing manner then in the word alone ? and can any then deny it , to be as converting , yea a more humbling , regenerating , converting ordinance then the word , which is likewise commonly joyned with it ? doubtlesse if this sacrament be not a converting ordinance in this regard , i know not any which can be so reputed . eighthly , all accord , that our owne corporall externall ( a ) afflictions are many times without the word , the meanes of our repentance and conversion unto god : and the scripture is expresse they are so . if then our owne afflictions are , or may be a converting ordinance , then much more the sacrament , wherein the afflictions of christ himselfe are so visibly set forth before our eyes . ninthly , that ordinance whose unworthy participation is a meanes of our spirituall obduration , must , by the rule of contraries , when worthily received , be the instrument of our mortification , conversion , salvation ; but the unworthy receiving the sacrament , is a meanes of our spirituall obduration and damnation , 1 cor. 11. 27 , 29. therefore its worthy receiving must needs be an instrument of our humiliation , mollification , conversion and salvation . tenthly , the severall ends and purposes for which this sacrament was ordained , and of which it minds men when ever they receive it , prove it to be a sweet regenerating and converting , as well as a confirming ordinance . as first , the keeping of christians in perpetuall memory of christs death and propiciatory sacrifice on the crosse , of purpose to convert and reconcile them unto god , 1 cor. 11. 26 , 27. gal. 3. 1 , mat. 26. 28. secondly , the ratification and sealing of all the promises & covenants of grace unto the receivers souls , 2 cor. 1. 20. thirdly , to be a pledge and symbole of that most neere and effectuall communion which christians have with christ , and that spiritual union which they enjoy with him , 1 cor. 10. 16. ephes. 5. 25. to 35. fourthly , to feed the communicants soules in assured hope of eternall life . fifthly , to be an assured pledg unto them of their spirituall and corporal resurrection . sixthly , to seal unto them the assurance of everlasting life upon their sincere repentance , and embracing of jesus christ for their only savior . seventhly , to binde all chistians , as it were by an oath of fidelity , and obliege them forever to the service of christ , who died for us to this very end , that whether we live we should live unto the lord , or whether we dye we should dye unto the lord ; & that living and dying w● should be ever his , rom. 14. 7 , 8 , 9. 2 cor. 5. 14. to 19. from whence it is called a sacrament , or oath by divines . now i beseech my antagonists to informe me , how it is possible that a sacrament ordained for such and so many spirituall ends , ( every one of which is most powerfull to operate upon the flintyest heart and obduratest spirit ) should not in all these regards , both in gods intention and christs ordination , be a converting , as well as a sealing ordinance ; since that which doth seal all these particulars to mens soules , and represent them to their saddest thoughts , must needs more powerfully perswade , pierce , melt , relent , convert an obdurate heart and unregenerate sinner , then the word it self , when but nakedly preached , which comes not with such advantages upon impenitent hearts , as this sacrament doth in all these respects . eleventhly , i would but demand of the opposites , what true conversion is ? is it not a sincere universall turning of the whole frame of a christians inward and outward man , from the love and service of the world , flesh , devill , sin , unto the cordiall love , service , obedience of god in christ ? and is there any ordinance , engine , instrument , so probable , so prevalent to effect it as this sacrament , in all the forecited respects ? certainly none at all . twelfthly , ( to spend no more arguments in so cleere a case ) i appeale to every christians conscience ; whether their own experience will not ascertaine them , that the sacrament is a converting ordinance , turning their hearts from the power and love of sin , to the service , love of god and christ ; and strengthning them against their corruptions ; temptations , as well , as much as the word , if not far more . and cannot many thousands of converted christians experimentally affirme , that their preparations and approaches to this holy sacrament , were the first effectuall meanes of their conversion , yea that they had not been converted , had they beene debarred from it for their former scandalous lives ? for shame therefore disclaim this absurd irreligious paradox , for which there is not the least shadow of scripture , or solid reason . if then the sacrament be a converting as well as a sealing ordinance ; then questionlesse no unexcommunicated scandalous person , who is fit to heare the word , and joyne in any other converting ordinances , as fasting , prayer , &c. ought to be debarred from this , it being one of the most effectuall principall meanes which christ himselfe b who invites all heavy-laden sinners to come unto him ) hath instituted for their reall conversion . is it not ( i pray you ) a soul-murthering tyranny for any ministers or officers of christ without an expresse divine commission from him , to keepe backe any who externally professe his name , and are not utterly cut off from the society of the faithfull and all other ordinances , from this most effectuall lively meanes of their conversion , comfort or salvation ? to hinder them from taking spirituall physicke , because they are spiritually sicke of sinne ? may not the sacrament ( thinke you ) convert them as speedily , as probably as the bare word ? if men be corporally sicke , we will use all meanes , and debarre them from no one cordial or receit that may probably restore them to health ; and shall we not doe the like with sin-sicke soules ? if you say the sacrament may prove poison to them : therfore we dare not give it them . may not , nay wil no● the word & other ordinances prove poyson to them likwise as probably as i● , and yet you admit them without any scruple or dispute to them ? nay , let me a little retort the objection ; is not this sacrament of christs own institution , the wholsomest medicine , the comfortablest cordial to , & purposly ordained by him ●●r sin-sick-dying soules ? and is any potion more likly to recover , revive & strengthen them then this ? will you then adventure to detaine it , nay plead you must of necessity , under paine of mortall sin and damnation to your selves , deny it unto those who need it most and earnestly cry out for it , because it may possibly , through their present indisposition of spirit ( which is only infallibly knowne to god , not you ) prove dangerous or mortall totheir soules , when you deny it not to other civil carnal christians , to whom it is as deadly , as poysonous every whit ? is any parent or master so unnatural or sottish , to deny his children , servant wholsome meat , drink , to feed their bodyes , because perhaps they may turne to crudities , diseases ( as they doe in many ; ) or because they may possibly abuse them to excesse and riot , and so quite starve them for want of nourishment ? and shall any ministers be so irrationall or inconsiderate , as to deny the sacramentall food and nourishment of mens soules unto them , onely because possibly or probably they may receive them unworthily ( as the best too often do ) to the aggravation of their sin or present condemnation , and so starve their soules ? is any physician so absurd , as to deny his patient the most prevailing potion to recover him , because peradvetture it may prove dangerous , as all other physick may and will doe , if the very best prove deadly ? suppose any soules you thus keep back , without good warrant from christ himselfe , should despaire , dye , perish for want of this spirituall physick , cordiall , wilfully detained by you from them when desired , would not their blood be required at your hands ? it was an old generall error among many in point of phisick , which murdred thousands , to deny drink to those who were enflamed with burning-feavers , and earnestly cried out for it to quench their thirst , for feare of encreasing their feavers violence , which in truth it would have allayed , extinguished , if taken ; and therefore physicians of late have corrected this deadly mistake , by suffering such to drinke freely when they please , to extinguish the unnaturall heat , that else would kill them , which hath saved many such sick persons lives : i beseech you suffer not this old errour in physick and physicians to creep in among divinity and divines , in permitting them to deny the lords cup to such feaverish christians , burning in the flames of sinnes and lusts , who need it most to quench their flames , and cry unto you for it ; out of a fond conceit that it will prove poyson to them ; wheras you cannot deny but that it will probably , and for ought you certainly know , may through gods blessing , eventually prove the most effectuall meanes for their health and recovery , and not of their destruction . we all justly condemne the papists , for with-holding the sacramentall cup from the laity , to which they have a divine right , as well as the priests , upon pretended inconveniences ; and shall any then usurp a popish ●ower , not onely to deny the lords cup , but body too , to any who desire thē , and have a right , an interest in them , as visible members of the visible church ? we sharply censure all such ministers , who [ a ] deny or deferre the sacrament of baptisme to infants , especially in cases of sicknesse or danger ; and are not th●se as blameworthy , who deny or delay to give the sacrament of the lords supper to such of riper yeeres , who are ready and desirous to receive it ; when their soules for ought they know , may be as much endangered for want of it , as others are through want of preaching and other ordinances ? certainly if there be any danger in the unworthy receiving the sacrament , it is onely to those who desire it , not to those who administer it to them at their desire , with the forementioned cautions ; but if any hurt , dispaire , danger happen by their not receiving it , when desired ( as for ought any minister certainly knowes there may be ) the sin and danger is certainly theirs who refused to give it when requested , since therefore , a peradventure we may receive or do good by such a particular ordinance or action , is a sufficient encouragement for us to adventure on it in other cases , let it be also a warrantable ground and encouragement for ministers to administer the sacrament in such cases , where they have at least a probabilty , a possibility , a peradventure , it maybe , and an who knoweth but it may co●vert and doe th●m good , as well as a peradventure it may prove dangerous to their soules : remember , you are onely the ministers not lords of christs sacraments , ordinances , flock ; their stewards to give them the food of their soules in due season , not to with-hold it from them : and for a conclusion , think of these determinations of lucas osiander , against the anabaptists , de ecclesia , c. 6. qu. 3. etsi tenemur errantes & peccatores admomere , & si sieri pessit , in viam reducere , tamen nostrum non est in acceptione dominica caenae , illorum , sed nostra probare corda , sic dicente paulo , probet seipsum ( non alterum ) h●mo , & sic de pane illo edat , 1 cor. 11. justus sua side vivet , non aliena , abac. 2. ideoque , sive alius ●idem suam contammet , sive prorsus amittat , non tamen tu illius vel diffidentia ant infidelitate , vives vel morieris . et alibi dicit paulus ; unusquisque nostrum prose ( non pro alio ) rationem r●ddet dec : non ergo amplius invicem judicem●● , rom. 14. cum christus institueri● , caenam sua, sacram , aderat inter a●stol●s & jud●● , tradit●r christ , illius tamen indign●tas nihil detraxit reliquis apost●tis , neque jussi● illos christus , ●ropter jude praesentiam ( quem tamen christus jam proditor●● suum esse sciebat ) de mensa surgere , & excluso ill● ( n● contaminarentur forte & ipsi ) deni●● celebra●e coenam domini . ita etiam paulus de indignis scribit , quod illi ( non vero caeteri digne communicantes . ) sibi , non alijs recte accedentibus , manducent judicium . neque caeteros probatos abstinere jubet a sacrae coen● sumptio●● , sed indign●s , ad indigne se pr●parandum , coh●rtatur : dogma hoc anabaptisticum pr● se fert pharis●ic●m s●perbiam qua hujus●●d ▪ ho●ines se alijs ●eli●res esse putant ▪ & occup●ti circa alie●●s conscientias proprias suas neglig●nt ▪ fals●●mirum persuasi , sib ▪ diligentiore & can●a probatione ●pus non esse : deo a●tem hac pharisatca {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , vehementer exosa est : tantum igitur ocij est hisc● hominibus ● propria imbecilliate ut aliena potius , quam sua scrutentur . fieri praterea potest , ut de quo anabaptistie●●i pharisai pessi●● judicant , is , propter panitentiam cordis , qua nobis occulta esse potest , deo sit longe acceptior , quam superciliosus hom● , qui ●●ndem j●dic● , ●icuti publicanum ( quem tamen pharisaeus despiciebat , meli●rque ipso videbatur ) justificatum in domum suam descendisse , prae pharisaeo legimus , luke 18. ad ho● illud christi spectat , ejice prius hypocrita trabem ex oculo tuo , quam ex fratris oculo sestucam eximas , matth. 7. and thus much for their severall evasions of my third quere , in which i have been more prolix , because it is the very foundation of all our antagonists mistakes and errours in this controversie . onely this i shall adde for a conclusion ; that if all excommunicated persons ought by the law of god to be admitted to the preaching of the word , but not to christs supper ; as the antagonists determiue : then by their owne confessions and practice it wil inevitably follow , there is no absolute excōmunication at all by any divine institution left by christ unto his church ; since persons admitted freely to communicate every day with the saints and faithfull in the ordinary hearing of the word and prayer , are really unexcommunicated ; it being a flat contradiction , to say they are excommunicated , when thus admitted to heare the word , and to all other ordinances , but this sacrament onely . and thus by this very evasion they yeeld up their cause so much contended for at this present . the ninth thing in debate is , whether john 9. 21. 34 , 35. the jewes had agreed already , that if any man did confesse that he was christ , he should be cast out of the synagogue : and they cast him out ( or excommunicated him , saith the margin : ) and c. 12. 42. nevethelesse , a mong the chiefe piests also many beleeved on him ; but because of the pharises , they did not confesse him , lest they should be put out of the synagogue : and c. 16. 2. they shall put you out of their synagogues , &c. be any good proofe at all , that excommunication or suspention from the sacrament are of divine institution ; or an ordinance of christ which he hath left and perpetuated in his chuch ? the doting antidote-man affirmes it , page 1. and in the dayes of our saviour ( writes he ) excommunication out of the sinagogue continued among the jews , and our saviour did not abrogate it , for the abuse of it by the priests , scribes and pharises ; but his apostles under the gospell did exercise it against simon magus , when by professed sacriledge he declared himselfe in the gall of bitternesse , and bond of iniquity ( which i take to be no excommunication nor suspension . ) to this i answer : first , that this putting men out of the synagogue practised by the jewes , was no divine institution prescribed or warranted by gods word ; but onely a humane invention or punishment , introduced by the jewes , or jewish sanhedrim , as the texts themselues demonstrate ; and so no president to binde us christians . secondly , this practice used by the jewes in the objected tex●s , was so farre from being an ordinance of christ , or approved by him , that it is a me●e diabolicall institution against christ , and all who should professe him , who wee adjudged by the jewes to be put out of the sinagogue for this very cause ( and no other that we read of ) that they professed jesus to be the christ : and is this a fitting patterne of divine institution for christians to imitate , or a sufficient warrant to suspend men from the sacrament ? certainly if it be so , it is but in this respect ; that as the jewes would cast men out of the sinagogue , only for professing jesus to be the christ ; so you , in imitation of them , would keep off unexcommunicated scandalous christians from the lords table , that they might not there receive christ tendred to them in this sacrament , if they doe but desire it . thitdly , if we beleeve the jewish rabbies , godwins jewish antiquities , l. 5. c. 2. a erastus , b master seldon , and c other learned men ; this casting out of the sinagogue , was no proper ecclesiasticall , but onely a civill censure , whereby the party cast out , was separated from all company or society with any man , or woman for the distance of four cubits onely at the pleasure of the judge , ( therefore it was certainly arbitrary , not divine ) also from eating or drinking with any , from the use of the marriage-bed , shaving , washing , and the like , according to the quality of the offence : it was of force forty dayes yet so , as that it might be shortned upon repentance ; he that was thus excommunicated , had power to be present at divine service , to teach others , and learne of others ; he hired servants , and was hired himselfe , but alwayes on condition of keeping off four cubits distance from them . therefore doubtlesse it was meerly a civill excōmunication like to an oxtlary , not ecclesiastical or divine ; since it suspended none from any divine ordināce , but civil cōversation only . fourthly , it was prescribed , inflicted , not by the priests or ecclesiastical classis , but by the temporal magistrate , ruler of the sinagogue , sanhedrim , or people , as the texts demonstrate , the jewes , ( not priests ) were the actors in it . fifthly , in the jewish sinagogues , there was neither passeover nor sacrament , nor sacrifice celebrated ▪ for all sacrifices , passeovers , festivals were celebrated in the temple at jerusalem , in the place which god did choose , not in their sinagogues where they had onely reading , expounding , preaching , disputing , prayer , but no sacrifice , or sacrament , as you may read in godwin's jewish antiquities , l. 2. c. 1 , 2. & l. 3. c. 4. therefore from this practice you can no wayes prove any suspension from the sacrament , because no sacrament nor sacrifice was then administred or offered in them by the jewes : and if it prove ought for the use or divinity of excommunication , it is onely thus much , that excommunicated persons cast out of the church must be suspended from preaching , reading , prayer , and such ordinances then used in the jewish sinagogues , not from any sacrifice or sacrament which were appropriated to the temple , to which those who were cast out of the sinagogue might resort : in brief , you may as well justifie excōmunication from deotrophe as frō hence . the tenth difference is , concerning the scriptures quoted in the fourth question ; whether i have rightly applied them ? my opposites say no , upon four mistakes of theirs . first , that they can infallibly know the hearts and present conditions of communicants who have formerly lived scandalously and impenitently in their sinfull courses , to be impenitent , obstinate and wicked even at that very instant when they come to receive , though they publikely professe their unfained sorrow and repentance for all their sinnes past , and solemnly promise , yea , vow amendment and newnesse of life for ever after : which i affirme to be meere arogancy , and a usurpation of gods owne tribunall , for any minister or classis peremptorily to determine , since god onely knowes mens hearts , and can change them in a moment . se●●ndly , that the sacrament is no converting ordinance , but meere poyson to all that have been scandalous persons resorting to it , though with profession of repentance and reformati●n . thirdly , that none but persons truly regenerated an● sancti●ied have a right to the sacrament , and that ministers and presbyters have di●in● a●●hority to keep back such scandalous persons frō the lords supper , whom they have no lawfull authority to suspend from other o●●inances . fourthly , that suspension from the sacrament is , by divine institution , a necessa●y preparatory steppe and degree to excommunica●ion , as well 〈◊〉 admonition , exhortation , reprehension , and publike rebuke ; which is a meere groundle●se fancy , warranted b● no texts nor president of sc●ipt●re , as the premises d●mon●trate : and therefore the answers t● them b●ing grounded on these erronious positions and mistakes , they yet remain● in their full vigor . finally , to close up all other differences in few words , take notice , that my antagonists contend for that which i grant them with advantage , and yet quarrel with me as denying it : for first , i freely grant them in my questions , that all scandalous , obstinate , peremptory , incorrigible , notorious sinners , who desperately and professedly persevere in their grosse scandalous sinnes , to the dishonour of christian religion the scandall of the congregation , the ill ezample and infection of others ▪ after severall sole●n● previous publike admonitions , reprehensions , rebukes , contemned or neglected , and full conviction of their scandall and impenitency , may and ought to be excommunicated , suspended , not onely from the sacrament of the lords supper ▪ but from all other publike divine ordinances whatsoever ▪ and the society of the faithfull , till publike satisfaction given for the scandall , and open profession of amendment of life , accompanied with externall symptomes of repentance : and they contest with me for a suspension of such sc●ndalous persons onely from the lords supper , without any totall excommunication from the church , and all other publike ordinances , for which i must profess● i can see no ground at all in scripture ▪ or reason ; but scripture and rationall grounds enough against it ; and quite subverts excommunication . secondly , i affi●m that no visible member of a visible church , professing sorrow for his sins , able to examine himself and desirous to receive the sacrament , may or ought of right to be suspended from it , but such onely who are actually excommunicated from all other ordinances , or at least notoriously guilty and convicted of some publike horrid crime , of which all the congregation or presbytery have legally taken notice , and are ripe for a sentence of excommunication then ready to be pronounced against them , so farre as to suspend them from all publike ordinances : in such a case as this , where the fact is notorious , the proofs pregnant , the sentence of excommunication ready to be pronounced against them as persons impenitently scandalous and incorrigible , perchance the presbytery or classis may order a suspension from the sacrament or any other ordinances , before the sentence of excommunication solemnly denounced , if they see just cause ; but not where there is a bare accusa●ion without any notoriousnnesse of the fact , or witnesses examined to prove the scandall ; for thus to suspend a man upon a meere accusation , or surmise , before witnesses produced , were to pre-judge him as guilty , before hearing of his cause , or probat of the offence or accusation , which may be false a● well as true , for ought appeares to the presbytery : this was all i meant by this new addition to the second impression of the four quares ( or judicially accused , pendente lite ) wherein the third answerer to these quaeres so much triumphs , as if he had wo●ne the field by this short addition , saying , that our ministers and the assembly desire no more power then this ; which i shall readily grant them , with the precedent limitations , which will take off all his flourishes on it ; and so we are both accorded ▪ provided , that this power be claimed by no divine right , but only by parliamentary authority and humane institution . to close up this discourse , i shall onely propound these four new quares to all my antagonists , and leave the further consideration of them to the saddest debates both of the honourable houses of parliament and veverable assembly ; who perchance may seriously advise upon them first , whether a bare excommunication or suspension from the sacrament or other ordinances , if not backed with the authority of the civill magistrate , when these censures are slighted , or contemned , be not likely to prove an impotent invalid , ineffectuall meanes to reclaime impenitent obstinate sinners , especially if they once grow common , triviall , and inflicted upon many together , which made it so contemptible under the pope and prelates ? whether it be not farre better , safer profi●abler for christians in point of conscience and christian prudence , to admit such scandalous persons to the sacrament , not actually excommunicated ▪ who earnestly desire to receive it , and externally profesle repentance and amendment of their lives , though they thereby eat and drink judgement to themselves , and become guilty of christs body and blood ; then under colour of keeping back such , to deprive them , or any sincere true hearted christians of the benefit and comfort of it , to whom really it belongs , t● the very breaking of their hearts and wounding of their spirits ? which hath been the ca●e of some and may be of more , if christian moderation , compassion ▪ charity , prudence be not most predominant in every presbytery ; doubtlesse better it were a thousand reprobates and obdurate sinners who will not be restrained by threats and admonitions , should eat unworthily , to the damnation of their soules , then one worthy communicant , or sincere hearted christian be deprived of that right and comfort of the sacrament , which belongs unto him . secondly , whether the suspending of such persons from the sacrament ( being no ordinance of christ for ought appeares to me , nor expresly warranted by any scripture , president , or precept ) without a totall suspension of them from all christian society & other ordinances , will not be ● means to harden prophane obdurate , scandalous sinners , if it be once made ordinary and generall rather then to reforme , convert , amend them ? and whether their admission to the sacrament accompanied with serious previous ad●onitions ▪ exhortations to them against unworthy receiving ▪ and persevering in their impenitent courses after the sacrament received , and publike serious reprehensions for their former evill courses , b● not a farre more probable way and meanes of reclaiming ▪ converting them from their evill wayes , then any bare suspension from the sacrament , without any concurrent suspension from all other ordinances and christian communion can be ? my reasons for propounding this question are very considerable : first , be●ause such obstinate scandalous sinners , as experience teach●s , make no great conscience at all of receiving the sacrament ( from which for the most part they voluntarily suspend themselves for sundry months , nay yeers together out of meer prophanesse ) in case they may be freely admitted to other publike ordinances : it being onely the totall exclusion from the church and all christian society ( not any bare su●pension from the sacrament ) which workes both shame and remorse in excomunicate persons , as paul resolves , 1 thes. 3. 14. 1 cor 5. 13. compared with the 1 cor. 5. 1. to 11. secondly , because we find this an experimentall verity , that the most prophane and scandalous sinners that are , when they intend to receive the sacrament , will many of them ( like loose c italians in the lent ▪ season ) for a day or two before , at leastwise on the very day they receive it , and some dayes after ▪ demeane themselves very penitently and devoutly in o●tward appear●nce , yea openly and privately promise and vow to become new creatures , to give over all their sinfull courses , and never to returne to them againe , and for the ●eason seem to be reall converts ; yea no doubt many d●boist persous have been really reclaimed converted ▪ even by their accesse and admission to the sacrament ; who if actually suspended from & not admitted to it , would have grown more obstinately impenitent & dissolute in their lives ▪ and never have entred into any serious examination of their evill wayes , courses ▪ nor promised such newnesse of life , as they doe at time● of receiving , by their admission to the sacrament . thirdly , all our antagonists grant , that the sacrament is a solemne vow or covenant , which obligeth all receivers , esp●cially the most scandalous and sinfull , generally to re●orm all their evill wayes , and carry themselves more obediently , zealously towards god and christ , then ever they did before : and we experimentally find that many sc●ndalous sinners , even out of a meer naturall or hypocriticall conscience , when they resort to the lords ta●le , doe oft enter into solemne secret vowes and covenants between god and their ownesoules , to amend their former evill wayes peruse and read some good pious books of devotion , meditation , and listen very diligently to the word when preached , which they will no whit regard , look on ▪ ot hearken to at other seasons , yea , become good , reall , at leastwise formall converts . fourthly , every ordinance of chtist , and the sacrament ▪ especially above others , is a speciall meanes not onely of confirming , but begetting and encreasing grace , as i have proved ; and i make no doubt , but many scandalous , obstinate sinners , have been , and may be still reclaimed by their owne ptivate conscionable preparations , examinations , meditations , prayers , vowes , and pious resolutions , taken to themselves ▪ and by the publike confessions , exhortations , admonitions , prayers , i●structions ▪ used in the congr●gation both before , at , and imediatly after their approaches to the lord● table : yea i dare say ten to one , would be reclaimed , converted , by such admission , then will be converted or amended by their bare suspension from it : hence it was , that christ , who came into the world to save sinners , when he would reclaime and bring home sinners conversed familiarly with , & permitted them ever to come to him and hi● ordi●ances , not debarred them from them : and the forecited fathers alleage this for one reason why christ admitted the very traytor judas to the sacrament , though he knew him to be a devill and cast-away , because he would ●vercome him by this great mercy , goodnesse , lenity , and leave no meanes of his convertion unattempted : if therefore scandalous sinners seriously desire to receive the sacrament , as a principall meanes to subdue their iniquities , reforme their lives , and tye them faster unto god for the future , making publike profession of the reality of their intentions in this kind ( as they all doe , at lest in words and outward shew ) why such should be debarred fro● the sacrament of the lords supper , since really admitted to the sacrament of baptisme , and all other ordinances ; i cannot yet discerne any proofe or reason . thirdly , whether christ did ever intend , that none but true reall beleevers and penitents should receive his supper ? or , whether he did not infallibly both know and really intend , that many unregenerate , impenitent persons , would and ●hould receive it , some of them to their cōvertion , who belong to him , others of them to their h●rt & condemnation , as well as true penitents for their comfort and salvation ? our antagonists do , and m●st of necessity grant ▪ that close hypocrites , persons , who are not scandalous , b●t blamelesse in their outward conversations & endued withcompetent knowledge , have an external right to the lords supper , though not truly regenerate and endued with saving faith ; and that no mini●ler , presbytery or classis can or ought of right to suspend such from the sacrament ; for if reall saints should onely approa●h the lords table , how few would the number of communicants be in all congregations ? or what minister , church , or classis might or could take such a jurisdiction upon them ▪ as certainly to define who are reall saints , and who not ; since the lord onely knowes infallibly who are his ? they doe and must likewise yeeld ▪ that such persons as these hauing no justifying faith nor sincere repentance in them ▪ when they doe receive this sacrament , doe eat and drink their owne damnation , as well as the prophanest obstinatest sinners . if then these may be admitted to the sacrament , though they thus eat and drinke damnation to themselves , not discerning the lords body , then why not others ? and if christ hath ordiained the sacrament of his supper ( as well as the preaching of the word and gospell ) to be a savour of death to such unworthy , as well as a savour of life unto life to worthy receivers ; then what reason ▪ in point of conscience , can any minister alleage , why he should not administer the sacrament to all who desire to receive it , as well as preach the gospell to those who desire to heare it , since god hath his end in both ? the glory of his justice in the one , as well as of his grace and mercy in the other . fourthly , whether all obstinate , scandalous , impenitent sinners , before they come to participate at the lords tahle , b● not in a present state of damnation ? and whether they doe not aggravate and e●crease their damnation by resorting to sermons , hearing ▪ reading , praying , fasting , and every other publike duty they performe to god , as well as eat and augment it by resorting ●o the sacrament ? if yea , which cannot be gain ▪ said , and is yeelded by all ; then what matter of conscience or solid reason can be rendred by any rationall christian , why such perso●s should not at well be admitted to the sacrament , as to any other ordinance ; or not suspended equally from all ordi●ances as well as from it ; since all by accident , ●hrough mens abuse and unprofitablenesse , prove means of aggravating their sins and condemnation ? either therefore our opposites must suspend such person● from all ordinances alike , till they be reclaimed ( which themselves perchance will deem a preposterous course ) or else admit them to the sacrament as well as to other ordinances , since all prove alike good or bad , saving or damning to them . object . if they alleage ( as some of them doe ) that suspension from the sacrament , though not from othe● ordinances , is but a step to excommunication , and therefore warranted by those texts and reasons , which make for a totall excomunication from the church and o●her ordinances . answ. i demand , first , whether christ himselfe ( whose kingdome and discipline you pretend excomunication to be , and him to be the onely law-giver of his church ) hath made suspension onely from the sacrament , but not from other ordinances , a step to totall excomunication , or a necessary or expedient forerunner of it , as you grant he hath made publike admonitions , exhortations , reproofes , and the like ? if yea , then shew me where , when , or how by scripture , which i am certaine you cannot doe ; if not , then this suspension from the sacrament alone ( which is now contested for with so much eage●nesse as if christs kingdome and church-discipline did wholly consist therein ) is but a meere humane invention and so no ordinance of christ , nor any part of his kingly government . secondly , i shall demand , whether those texts which prescribe a totall exclusion from the church , ordinances , can be any way satisfied , obeyed , by a partiall execution of them ? wh●n god commands any thing to be fully executed , a halfe or partiall performance onely is no better in his esteem , then plaine disobedience or rebellion ; as appeares in the case of ( a ) saul's incompleat fulfilling●f gods commission against the a●al●kites , in sparing agag and the best spoyles ; and destroying onely the vulgar amalekites , with the worst of the cattle and spoyle . your selves doe daily inculcate upon the parliament , and your auditors , a through and compleat reformation in church and state ; informing them , that lesse will not be accepted of god or good men ; and will you content god will a halfe excomunication of scandalous , notorious sinners , by suspending them onely from the sacrament , when he requires a compleat sequestration and casting out of such , from all publike ordinances and christian communion ? answer me but this , and you will soone satisfie your objection . thirdly , what are the principall ends for which excomunication was instituted in the church ? are they not ; first , the punishment of the impenitent delinquent for his crimes ? whence it is stiled by you & others , a censure , yea the terriblest censure and punishment of all . secondly , the preserving of others from infection ▪ pollution , by their ▪ ill example and conversation , as leapers in the leviticall law , and plague sick persons and leapers by our laws now , a●e to be shut up & sequestred from the company of others during their contagions ? if so ( as you must needs acknowledge from ths 1 cor. 5. 6 , 7 , 8. gal 5. 9. 2 tim. 2. 17 , 18. ) then if this censure be of gods institution not mans ▪ how can you prove chancellors to m●tigate or halfe it at your pleasures without gods warrant ? how can you inflict it but in part ▪ when and where he requires the whole ? are you f●ithfull or impartiall judges herein ? i presume you dare not say so ; either therefore execute this censure throug●ly and impartially , as god ( you say ) prescribes it , or not at all ▪ least you 〈…〉 selves wiser or mercifullier then god him selfe . againe , how can you 〈◊〉 others from infection by their society and examples ▪ if you doe not totally seclude them ▪ for the time you suspend them , till they reforme themselves , from all christian society and publike ordinances as well as from the lords table onely ? shall such converse and communicate daily with you in publique prayers , sermons ▪ fasts , reading the scripture , singing psalmes , &c. and yet not so much as once communicate with you monethly quarterly or yeerly , for feare of contagion or pollution by their ill example and society in that duty onely , in which ( for the most part ) they are ever most seemingly penitent , holy and devout ? was ever any man so absurd or se●slesse as to avoid the company of a leaper , or plague-sick person once a moneth or quarter , at his table onely , for feare of infection , and yet meet with him daily or weekly in the self-same house and roome upon other civill occasions of businesse or discourse ? and can any christians then be so irration●ll , as to conceive , that their daily or weekly communion with such scandalous impeni●ent sinners in all other publike ordinances , will not endanger or pollute them , nor make them ▪ guilty of their sinnes by participation , communion or approbation ; and yet thinke their monethly , quarterly , or yeerly meeting and communicating with them at the lords table only , will so poyson ▪ so infect them with their sinnes and guilt , that they neither can nor dare with safe conscience , admit them to , or joyne with them in this ordinance onely , though they ordinarily joyne with them without scruple in all others ? i beseech you deare christian brethren , consider seriously of all these particulars , apply them home to to your owne conscien●es , weigh them by the sacred ballance of gods holy word , the rules of right reason , piety , prudence , and then i doubt not by gods blessing , if you be not obstinately wedded to your owne opinions more then to the truth ▪ you will speedily disclaime and confesse the weaknesse , falsnesse , deceitfulnesse of those ●rro●ious grounds & whimseys wheron you have hitherto over ▪ rashly ( without any serious deliberation or discussion ) built this your partiall suspension from the sacrament alone , without exclusion from other ordinances , which hath neither colour of scripture , nor solid reason to support it , but both expresse against it . remember , i beseech you , that the a times of mens conversion and reformation are in gods hands alone ▪ not theirs or yours ; that b the change of the heart and life is not him of that willeth , nor in him that runneth , but in god that sheweth mercy ▪ and worketh this blessed alteration ▪ both at what time , and by what meanes he pleaseth : he can make the word and sacrament effectuall to some scandalous sinners , it may be c at the third , perchance at the sixth , possibly not till the eleventh or last houre of the day : shall you therefore debarre them from them in the interim ? consider how many of your selves ( perchance ) have lived impenitently , unprofitably under the ordinances ▪ sacraments , for sundry yeers together , and how long god did d wait to shew mercy upon ▪ you , er● you did repent and amend ; and will you ▪ not exercise the e self same patience and indulgence towards others , as god and others did towards you , during your owne scandalous and impenitent lives ? doth god f suff●r the tares to grow together in his church with the wheat , and to enjoy the rain and dew of his ordinances till the very harvest , without separation , because possibly some who are for the present tares , may afterward prove wheat : & wil you extirpate or deprive them from the sacrament before gods time without separation , not following that golden rule the apostle prescribes to every minister who is the lords servant , g to be gentle towards all men , patient ; in meeknesse instructing those that oppose themselves , if god peradventure will give them repentance , to the acknowledg●ng of the truth , and that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devill , who are taken captive of him at his will : let us no● be more impatient and harsher towards any then god himselfe and christ are , and h would have us to be ; but let us i put on bowels of tender mercies towards them , with long-suffering , as they do ; god himself endures with much long-suffering ( in his church ) the very vessels of wrath fitted for destruction , endeavouring to overcome or leave them unexcusable by his ordinances & long-suffering : and shall not we endure them or others , though scandalous for the present , who by these ordinances may become vessels of mercy , as well as we ? consider the k parable of the marriage of the kings sonne , where the king sent forth his servants to invite guests to the wedding ▪ supper , who gathered together all they found , both bad and good , that the wedding might be furnished with guests ; and beware that ye fall not in point of the sacrament , into the very errour we condemne in papists , in regard of the word , who take away and deny the use of the scriptures from the common people in the vulgar tongue l because the unstable and unlearned wrest them ( as they did in peters time , & never more then now ) to their owne destruction ? upon which very ground you take away the sacrament from scandalous sinners , because you pretend they eat & drink it to their own damnation ; and so lapse into the self-same error in one kind as the papists doe in another , upon one & the same pretence . i plead not this as a meer lawyer , for any private ends or l●cre ( as some scandalously report ) since i value not my calling ( to which true church-discipline will be no prejudice ) nor any thing in the world in comparison of gods glory and the truth ; nor yet as an advocate for licentio●● , scandalous sinners , to extenuate their offences , punishment , or any way to encourage them in their impentiency & prophanations ; nor out of any disaffectiō to the presbyterian government , for which i have earnestly pleaded , and suffered much reproach from sectari●s and independents , and in which i may expect as great a share of presbyteriall power and honour as any other ; but meerly out of consci●nce , of love unto the truth , and tender compassions to ▪ the souls of other● , from whom without any punctuall scripture warrant , i would have no meanes of grace , or ordinances of christ with-held , wherein they have ● right , a property , which may conduce to their reformation or conversion . and i doubt not but many thousands now contrary minded , when they have perused my grounds and reasons , wil readily sub●cribe to my opinion as the truth of christ most agreeable to his practice , w●rd , mind ▪ from which mee● crochets and new whimseys of conceited braines ▪ ought never to seduce us , let us n stand fast therefore in the liberty wherew●th christ hath made us free , and be no more entangled with any yoake of bondage ▪ but what himselfe hath put upon us , or authorized others to impose on 〈◊〉 by his word , especialy in christs ordinances , which concern our souls , from which no creatures have power justly to seclude us , but in such cases where he gives them expresse commission , and in such sort as he prescribes . and let me suggest but one thing more unto your saddest thoughts , that in the churches of the anabaptists and brownists , both abroad and at home , where excommunication and suspension from the sacrament are most rigidly and severely exercised , pressed ; the sinnes and execrable scandalous crimes of heresie , false doctrine , spirituall pride , sedition , scisme , disobedience to magistrates , and the higher powers , envy , hatred , malice , covetousnesse , oppression , extortion , hypocrisie , yea , lying , rayling ▪ uncharitablenesse , slandering , un●aturalnesse , sometimes of sor●ication , adultery , fleshlinesse , doe farre more abound then in many of our english congreg●●ions , where these censures are very rarely exercised , or put in ●e ; and that the practicall power of godlinesse is generally more evidently visible , and the lives of the generality of the people more strict , pious , lesse scandalous and licentious in our english congregations where there hath been powerfull preaching , without the practice of excom●●ication or suspension from the sacrament , then in the reformed churches of france , germany , denmark or scotland , for which i appeal to all ●ravellors , and our independent ministers who have lived i● the netherlands , who wil & must acknowledge ▪ that in the sanctification of the lords ●●y , strictnesse of life , and exemplarinesse of conversation , our english ministers and protestants generally excell all others , notwithstanding their strict discipline , which really reforms very few or none , and works no such miracles of reformation , holinesse , precisenesse in mens lives or hearts , as is pr●●●nded : and in popish churches , where excom●●ications , suspensions , interdictions , church-censures ▪ most abound of any ▪ and are most frequently and formidably fulminated bypopish prelats and their officers ; how many exorbitances and grievances they introduce , how little reformation they worke in mens hearts or lives , is so well knowne to all men , and to our opposites in opinion , that we can have little hope● they will produce much reall sp●●dy reform●●ion in our churches , since they have hitherto wrought so little in all these , especially if ●hey once grow common , g●nerall , and so contemp●ible . certainly the speediest , best and onely way to suppresse all kind of sinnes , scisme● , to reforme and purge our churches from all scandalo●s offences , will be , for ministers no● to draw out the sword of excommunication and suspension against them , which will doe little good ; but the sword of the spirit , the powerfull preaching of gods word , and the sword of the ●ivill magistrate , which are onely able to effect this work , and if our assembly and ministers will but diligently preach against that c●talogue of scandalous sinne● and sinners they have prese●●ed to the parliament , and the parliament prescribe severe ●emporall lawes and p●nishments against them , and appoint good civill magistrates to see them duly executed ▪ inflicted , i am confident , that this would work a greater reformation in our chu●ch and state in one halfe yeere , then all the church ▪ discipline and censures now so eagerly contested for , will do in an age ▪ and will be the only true way and speediest course to reform both church and st●●e at once , which i hope the parliament will consider of , and take care , that our ministers ( like the bishops formerly ) may not now be taken up with ruling and governing ▪ but preaching and instructing , which is work enough , wholly to engrosse their ●ime and thoughts . and whereas many godly , true-hearted , zealous christians are now perswaded , that the parliaments deliberate ( for i cannot say slow proceedings ) in setling church discipline and cen●ures , is the maine cause of the encrease of so many heresies , seismes and sects among us , and that the speedy setling of that modell of church discipline the assembly hath presented to the houses , will both prevent and redresse this deplorable mischiefe , as is insinuated in a late printed petition ; i must needs informe these wel-affected pious men ( whom i truly love and honour ) that they are much mistaken both in the cause and c●re of this malady , and spreading dangerous gangreen . for first , the parliaments deliberation in debating and setling church-discipline is no true cause of this epidemicall disease ▪ which springs originally from other roots , of which i shall informe them . first , from our owne ministers late daily sowing , spreading of erronious , dangerous seeds of separation in their sermons , discourses , books , and maintaining ●ome anabaptisticall and brownisticall positions , specially concerning the sacrament of the lords supper , and suspending scandalous persons from it ( which i have here already recited , refuted ; ) even whiles they think and beleeve they write and preach against scisme , seperation , anabaptisme and errors tending t●●hem : this i am confident , is one maine cause , if not the chiefest of this spreading grievance , which some of those who most complaine against it , doe out of this their ignorance and un●dvisednesse , most foment . secondly , our magistrates , ministers and peoples free permission of divers ministers , hereticks , scismatikes , to vent their scismaticall erronious fancies , tenents , freely in our churches , pulpits , presses ▪ under pretence of advancing the parliaments service , and being firme unto their cause ; some of them , like so many wandring starres , running up and downe from county to county , city to city , pulpit to pulpit , where they freely and boldly vent their errours , seismes , to seduce poore ignoran● people , and preach against our church-worship , doctrine , ministers calling , the parliaments , synods authority in setling church government &c. declaiming outright against our church , ministers as antichristian ▪ and the like ; without apprehension , censure or controle : driving on their own s●ism●ticall designes , under pretext of doing god and the parliament service . thirdly , the permission of ministers and sectaries of all sorts , contrary to the lawes of god and the realme , openly to gather and set up private independent churches and conventicles of their owne , seperate from the publike : and to meet freely , boldly at them without the least interruption : with the toleration of such to hold constant private meetings and consultations together , every day , week , or moneth at least , how to advance and strengthen their party in all places , and get the greatest power and places of trust into their hands . now will excommuncation or suspension from the sacrament , or the setling of church discipline prevent or redresse all these true causes of our seismes ? certainly no : not the first , nor last of them , and the second but in part : for those who thus voluntarily separate themselves from our churches ▪ ministers , and will not joyne in any church communion with us , will not care a straw , but deride and je●re u ; to our faces , if we should excommunicate them from our s●c●aments , churches , assemblies , of which they professe themselves no members , and from which they have already excommunicated ▪ suspended themselves , but only when they creep up into our pulpits , of purpose to preach against ●s ▪ and seduce the people to sever from us , and seperate to them , whenas they will not permit any orthodox ministers of ours to preach , much lesse to preach against their wayes , errours , in their separate congregations . the only wayes therefore to remedy this dangerous mischiefe for the present , and prevent it for the future , are these e●suing , which answer to these causes of them . first for our own ministers to labour to discerne and then publikely to retract and unteach the people by word and writing , their erronious , grounds , scismaticall doctrines touching the sacrament of the lords supper , unmixt communions and suspension from the sacrament : and then none will separate when they are better taught , and the false grounds of separation and scism ( formerly pressed on them through ignorance , or in●ogitancy ) be as constantly preached and written against , as they have been formerly asserted in the pulpit and presse . secondly , for our magistrates conscionably to convent question ▪ and people to informe against all ministers or others , who runne about , and vent scismaticall , erronious new doctrines or whimseys in their own or others pulpits ▪ & seriously to admonish , cheek them for what is past and enjoine them for time to come , to prea●h nothing but christ crucified , o● doctrines of edification , and to avoid all ●nnecessa●y controversies concerning church ▪ government ( in which some now place all religion ) snd all erronious doctrines contrary to those established among us ; and in case they shall afterwards offend in the like kind , to debarre them from stepping up into other mens p●lpits , and suspend them from their owne till they shall reforme their erros , scisms and promise never to offend in like kind againe . and withall ▪ carefully to suppresse the printing and dispersing of all hereticall erronious or scismaticall books , by inflicting severe punishments on the authors , printers , dispersers of them : for which the good lawes and ordinanc●s already made and in full force , are sufficient , were they but duly executed . thirdly , to prohibit , suppresse ▪ by strict publike lawes and ordinances , the gathering of any particular churches or congregations without publike authority , together with all private conventicles , of ana●aptisticall sectaries wholly separating from , and standing in direct opposition against our publike church-meetings ; together with all their private cabinet-councels , consultations , to foment and augment their party : and in case they will not be reclaimed by lenity and friendly christian proceedings , but continue still obstinate and incorrigible , then to proceed severely against the ring-leaders of separating sects ▪ ●cismer , and to keep or remove them from all offices or places of publike trust in church o● state , wherein their continuance may prove prejudiciall to b●t● or either of them : and if all o●r magistrates , judges , and justices in city and country would but modestly execute the good statutes and ordinances already provided against those ; i am certain these spreading errours sectaries , scismes would be soon suppressed , and we all united in one , now the great stumbling block , of superstitious popish ceremoies , altars , images , with the common prayer book ( the only eye-sores heart-sores and grounds of separation , formerly complained of ● conscientious people ) are totally removed by the parliament , together 〈◊〉 scandalous and unpreaching ministers and gods word more powerfully , more ●ncere●y preached , then in any conventicles or segregated congergations whatsoever , where illiterate mechanicks ( who may as well st●p into the kings throne , a●d civill magistrates tribunall , as into the ministers pulpit ) or ignorant , ●●gif●ed ministers , doe usually exercise their leaden talents , and vent their dros●e straw , stubble , instead of the pure gold and orient pearles of gods sacred oracles . as therefore you desire , tender the redresse of this great grievanc● , the speedy settlement , peace , unity of our distracted church and state , the long expected establishment of such an exact church ▪ discipline as is warranted by gods word , not built on humane fancies ; the advancement of gods truth , honour ; the avoyding of all groundlesse , unwarrantable occasions of scismes or separations , occasioned by some new erronious paradoxes and false notions , touching this weighty subject of excommunication and suspension from the sacrament ; i shall humbly beseech and seriously adjure you in the name of jesus christ , the o great shepheard of his sheep , and impartiall judge both of quick and dead , 〈◊〉 ( p ) you wil answer the contrary before his dreadful tribunal at the last day , & avoid his q anathema maranatha , with all good mens censures here , to lay aside all self ▪ ends , self interests , prejudices whatsoever in this weighty controversie , and with a single , upright heart , seriously to weigh the severall particulars her● presented to your consideration ; and where you find i have scripture , truth , or right reason siding with me , there cordially to embrace it without more co●te●●● ▪ where you shall discerne i have been mistaken in any thing ( as for ought i know i am in nothing ) there in a brotherly manner to refute it ; and the lord give 〈◊〉 all sincere hearts to r prove all things , and hold fast what is good , both in our judgements and practises ; and to rest truly thankful for the great work of reformation already made , not to murmure or repine against god and the parliament , ●s if little o● nothing were already done , because that ▪ church-discipline of excommunication and suspension from the sacrament ( which some pretend , but prove not to be christs ordinance and kingdom ) is not fully established in sounlimited and dangerous an arbitrary way as they desire , and cannot have their wils or humours satisfied in every s●all punctilio . 2 cor. 13. 7 , 8. now i pray god tha● ye do no evil ▪ not that we should appeare approved , but that ye should doe that which is honest th●ugh we appeare to be reprobates : for wr can d●● nothing against the truth , but for the truth . errata . page 33. line 6. read s●nnes : ● . 35 l. 45 not : p. 39 l. 3 pr●m●ses l. 9 of his l. 44 in this p. 47 l. 32. ap●st●lo● . p 48 ● . 23. priests , l. 28 church , l. 42 were . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a91314e-1230 a 1 thes. 5. 21. b 2 cor. 13. 8. c gal. 4. 16. d iohn 1● . 37 eccles. 2. 18 , 19 c. 6. 12. c. 10. 14. * 1 kings 9. 10. 2 chron. 8. 1. 1 chron. 29. 2 chron. 2. & 3. * as appears by ezra 4. 24. notes for div a91314e-2350 a in an antidote against foure dangerous questions . a brotherly , friendly censure , &c. b acts 1. 24. ● see the histories of the anabaptists lucas osiander . bnchirid . cont. cum . anabaptist is de ecclesia , cap. 6. the prophane scisme of the brownists , discovered by christopher lawne and others . printed 1612. d num. 21. 14 15. deut. 23. 1 2 , 3. 1 cor. 5. 7 to 13. joh. 9. 22 32 , 3. 3. ch : 12. 42. c. 16. 2. 2 thes. 3. 14. 2 john 10. 11. 3 john 10. rom. 16. 17. tit. 3. ●0 , 11 : 2 tim. 3 5. e 〈◊〉 ep●st at 〈◊〉 godw●ns fewish antiquities l. 1. c. 3. f see go●w●ns ●ewish antiquities ▪ ● ▪ ● . ● . ● . g godwins jew●sh antiquities , l. 1. c. 2 h {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} signifies any civill assembly , councell or court of justice , as wel as on ecclesiasticall presbytery , see scapulae lexicon , page 730. h scapula ibidem , godwins jewish antiquities , l. 5. c. 4 ioseph . antiq. jud●eo●um , l. 14 , c ▪ 17. i p. galatinus , l. 4 c. 5. doctor potters want of charity iustly charged , london , 1634. p. 26. it may be underst●● of any assemb●y , as well civill as eccelsiastical , so it was in the first edition , but it is expunged in 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 by the arch bishops speciall direction . * see pecrus cunaeus de repub. judeorum l. 1. c. 12. juni . brutus vindiciae contr. tyoannos , q. 3. p 94. to 97. e acts 26. 18 eph. 2. 1. to 6. 1 john 3. 8. 2 tim. 2. 26. f see cartwrights notes on the rhem. testam. on 1 cor. 5. g john 8. 44 : 1 johu 3. 8. 2 tim. 2. 26. acts 5. 3. john 13. 2. 27 : h see cartwrights answ . to the rhem : testam. on 1 cor. 5. i a●ts 5. 3. joh 8. 44. 1 john 3 ● . eph. 2. 2 , 3 , 4. 2 tim. 2 , 26. k rom ● . 4 , 〈◊〉 11. 13. 14. gal 5. 18. 25. l eph. 2. 2 , 3 , 4. 1 john 3. 8. 2 tim. 2. 26. m mat. 15 22. luk. 6. ●8 . mar 9. 17. to 30. c. 5. 2. to 10. n mat. 16. 1● ▪ acts 16. 16 , 17 18 mat. 10. 8. o see mark 5. 9. to 15. john 13. 27. eph. 2. 2 , 3. 2 tim. 2. 26. see beda in 1 tim. 1. p john 14. 16. 1 cor. 6. 19. se aecumenius chrysost. primasius , haymo , beda , theodor . theophilact. in ● cor. 5. mat. 4. 1. to 12. q job c. & 2. see aecumenii enar. on 1 cor 5. primas . theophilact. chrysostom . hierom in locum . r 2 cor. 12. 7 s mat. 7. 3 , 4 , 5 * see primasi●s , theodoret , theophylact , chrysostom , haynor . o ecumen●u ▪ ans●lm and m●sculus in locum . ro. 12. 18 , 19. mat. 5. 34. mat ▪ 9. 10 , 11. c : 11. 19 ▪ mar. 2. 15 , 16. t see gratian ▪ caus. 1. quest , 1. ivo decret. seci●da pars . 1 cor. 11● 29. u exod. 12. 3. 〈◊〉 7 , 47. ● chron. 30. ●● to 2● . prov. 28. 13. 1 john 1. 9 ▪ psal. 32. 5. exod. 12. 22. to 28. mat. 26. 17. to ●1 . 47. mark 14. 15. to 27. luke 22. 24. t see willets synopsis pap●smi , p. 650. u see lucas o sia●d . encha rid . contr. cum anabaptist . de eccl●sia , cap. 6. qu. 3. x the harmony of confessions printed at london , 1643. p. 280. 321. 1 cor ▪ 〈◊〉 2● , u 1 ●or . 11. 21 ▪ 22. x s●e t●rtul . ap●l . ●●●n ●● 17 c. ● . ●9 2● . b act. 1. 24. 〈◊〉 2. ●● c 2 chr 6. ●● jer. 17. 4 , 5. d 2 tim ▪ 2. 25 26 e rom 8. 29 30 1 cor. 6. 10 , 11. tit. 3. 2 to 8. f joh. ●5 . 20. c 13. 16. mat. 10. 24 , 25 f a bro●●●●ly and friendly censure ▪ p ● 7. ● a● a●●i●ote against 〈◊〉 da●ger●us quaeries , p 6. an answer , &c 1 cor. 7. ●4 . ● p●● 5. 3. prov. 16. 1 ▪ 1 co● 7. 16. 1 tim. 2. 25 , 26. rom 9. 15 , 16 18. a brotherly and ●●eindly censure , 〈◊〉 ● , 8. a brotherly and friendly censure ▪ ● . ● . in my plesant purge for a roman catholike , and quench-cole . a brotherly and friendly censure . p. ● . the last answer to the four qu●stions ▪ harmouy of consessions . p. 287. see richard capel his nature of temptation , &c. para 1. pag. 214 , 215 , &c. lucas osiander ●nshirid . cont. cum anabapt ▪ c. 6. qu. ● . ● no nor sacraments ; which i onely mention , because they are s● much cryed up above the word , and made more holy then it , onely because they are term●d sacraments , and seal●s of the covenan● without any ●ext to warrant it . lucas osiander enchirid. contr. cum anabapt . cap. 6. q● . 3. p. 126 , 127. see the pract●ce of p●ety , p. 400. ●o 480. and all others concerning the sacrament and ●ur pret●tio●s to receive it . see gen 9. 16. job 42. 5 , 6 isa. 6. 5. 1 john 1. 1 , 3. see act. 2. 23. 37 , 38. ch. 3. 13 , 14 , 19. rev ▪ 1. 5 ● . isa. 5● . psal. 1. 19 67. 71. 2 chron. 33. 11 , 12 , 13. isa. 48 10. hos. 5. 15. see the practice of piety , p ●15 to 435. b mat. 11. 28 isa. 55. 1 , 2. john 7. 37. mat. 22. 2 , to 11. mat. 9. 6. constitutions and canons ecclesiasticall anno. 604. can. 68 , 69. zeph. ● . 3 ▪ amos 5. 15. jonas 3. 9. c. gen. 31. 31. 32. 30 ▪ numb. 22 6 , 11. josh. 2. 24. judg 6 , 5. 2 tim. 2. 25. jer. 36 ▪ 3 , 6 , 7 , 8 , 21. est . 4. 14 , 16. 1 sam. 4. 6. ch. 14. 6. 1 kings 28. 5 , 6. 2 sam 12. 21 , 22. 2 king 7. 3 , 4 , 5 , 6. a de excommun cati●ue . b de jure naturae & grat. lib. 4. cap. 8. de anno civiil &c. praefatio , p. 6 , 7. & cap. 18. p. 83 , 84. c buxto●f . ●pi . hebraei . p. 55. d num. 9 , 1. to 16. deut. 16. 1 2 king. 23. 22 23. 2 chron. 30. 18. 35. throughout . ezra . 6. 19. mat. 26. 17. 18 godwins jewish antiquities li 8. 2. cap. 1. & l b. 3 cap. 4. 3 john 9 , 10 , 11. c●l 6. 1 , 2. 1 tim. 5. 1. 20 ti● . 3. 11. c s●●ed● . sa●●● r●lat●●● . mat. ● . 11. ●3 . c●ap . 13. 28 , 24. l●k● 7. 34 ch ▪ 1● . ● , 2. 1 tim. 1. 15. ● tim. 5. 1 20 ●●t ▪ 〈…〉 c. 2 ▪ 1● ▪ 2 thes. 3. 14 , 14● gal 6. ●● 2 ▪ ● sam 15 ▪ levit 13. num. ● . 〈…〉 a psal. 31. 15 ▪ b eph. 2. 1 , 2. 2 tim. 2. 25 , ● 26. rom. 9. 16 phil. 2. 13. marke 10. 23. c mat. 20. 1. to ● . d ●er . 30. 18. e see mat. 18 ▪ 27. to 33. f mat. 13. 28 , 29 , 20. heb. 6. 7 , 8. g 2 tim 2. 25 26 , 27. h gal. 6. 1 , 2. luke 6. 36. col. 3. 12 , 13. i r 〈◊〉 9. 22. k ma● . 23 ▪ 1. to 11. l 〈◊〉 pet. 3. 16. 〈◊〉 1 cor. 11. 27. n gal. 5. 1. see the histories of the anabaptists , & books against the brownist● ▪ p●t on and fomented by our ministers underhand . o ●eb . 13. 21 d. 1. pet. 4. 5 q 1. cor. 16. r 1. thes. 5 21 ▪