a defense of infant-baptism in answer to a letter (here recited) from an anti-pædo-baptist / by john wallis ... wallis, john, 1616-1703. 1697 approx. 37 kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from 15 1-bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : 2004-08 (eebo-tcp phase 1). a67377 wing w568 estc r21035 12226186 ocm 12226186 56509 this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons 0 1.0 universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase 1, no. a67377) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set 56509) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, 1641-1700 ; 904:12) a defense of infant-baptism in answer to a letter (here recited) from an anti-pædo-baptist / by john wallis ... wallis, john, 1616-1703. [2], 24 p. printed by leon. lichfield, for henry clements, oxford : 1697. reproduction of original in huntington library. advertisement: p. [2] created by converting tcp files to tei p5 using tcp2tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between 1473 and 1700 available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the 25,363 texts created during phase 1 of the project have been released into the public domain as of 1 january 2015. anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. 5% (or 5 pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of 100 instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level 4 of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p5, characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng infant baptism. 2004-04 tcp assigned for keying and markup 2004-04 aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images 2004-05 mona logarbo sampled and proofread 2004-05 mona logarbo text and markup reviewed and edited 2004-07 pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion dr. wallis of infant-baptism . a defense of infant-baptism . in answer to a letter ( here recited ) from an anti-paedo-baptist . by iohn wallis , d. d. and professor of geometry in the university of oxford . oxford : printed by leon. lichfield , for henry clements , 1697. advertisement . this letter in defense of infant-baptism ( though written some while since , ) falling lately into my hands ; and being recommended by some knowing persons ; i thought fit to publish it . ( with the author 's good leave ) for the benefit of others ; omitting the name of him , who proposed the question ; because i do not know , whether or no he be willing to have it made publick . a letter from an anti-paedo-baptist , to doctor wallis . reverend sir , i have read the first part of your discourse concerning the christian sabbath , and liked it so well , that i was very eager to get the second : in reading whereof , i could not but admire at the large measure of understanding , which the lord , out of his goodness , has been pleased to bestow upon you , above many other pious and learned men , that have formerly treated of the sabbath , and disputed against the jewish sabbath , with so much weakness , that the sabbatarians have been greatly thereby incouraged in their errour . and coming in pag. 91. to these words of yours , you would have had — so much modesty , as to think , the mistake may possibly be on your side , rather than on the whole body of christians ( some very few excepted ) who religiously observed the lord's day ; i did reflect on my self , who am perswaded , that believers infants are not to be baptized in their infancy , contrary to the opinion of so many learned paedo-baptists in christendom , yea the generality of christians ; and it made me to think , the mistake might possibly be on my side , rather than on the body of christians ( some few excepted ) who conscientiously maintain infant-baptism . and supposing you , worthy sir , by your communion , to maintain paedo-baptism , i took courage and boldness , to write unto your self , for to know your grounds from scripture , on which you satisfy your conscience in that point . the main reason , which satisfies me against paedo-baptism , is , because i can find no where in scripture , either in express terms , or by any natural or necessary consequence , that it is the will of god , that believers infants are to be baptized in their infancy : i cannot find any precept to baptize them , nor so much that ever iohn the baptist , or christ , or his disciples ( that appears ) did baptize any of them . i know indeed , what dr. hammond , dr. light-foot , and the athenian society presume ( as to an institution ) from a custom among the iews , of their baptizing the infants of proselytes , as if christ out of condescension to the iews , to win them , did include infants in his precept of baptizing all nations , children being a part of them . but i cannot find in holy writ any such custom recorded , or that it had a divine institution . and if those writings from whence they would prove , that there was such a custom in our saviour's time amongst them , were of undoubted authority , yet i cannot see any reason to conclude , that christ would institute infant-baptism to gratify infidel iews , who were but the least part of all nations , ( if intended there by nations . ) as iohn's baptism was from heaven , and was so singular a thing , that the iews , ioh. 1. 25. wondring at it , asked him , why baptizest thou then , if &c. so the baptism christ instituted , was not from any jewish tradition , or rudiment of the jewish world , but from heaven , and differing from any jewish baptism . that iohn baptist , and our lord first made disciples , and then baptized those disciples , i think is plain from ioh. 4. 1. but i cannot find , that they also baptized the children of those disciples , as if they had been the children of new proselytes . as our lord did thus among the iews , by his apostles , so he did by them among the nations ; and i can no where in scripture find , that believing gentiles were counted and called proselytes , because christians , and that their children were baptized for that reason . the doctor doubtless can certify me , whether or no it was a custom among the iews and other nations , for great masters to initiate their disciples by baptism ; and if so , there would be more probability , that christ instituted baptism from that custom , if from any , and that as they did not baptize the children of those disciples too , until themselves became disciples , so the children of the disciples of christ , the great prophet of god , and our master , are not to be baptized , until themselves also become disciples . go ye , and teach all nations , is explain'd , mar. 16. 15. go ye into all the world , and preach the gospel to every creature ; and thus it is by several of the fathers understood . and by baptizing them , viz. all nations , there is no necessity to understand it of baptizing all persons absolutely , for we have the words [ all nations ] in other texts of scripture , where they do not mean all persons absolutely , but of a capable condition , as adorate eum omnes gentes , & psallitate deo omnes nationes , &c. and if baptism was the way of discipling persons , as some would have it , then the apostles needed not have first required of them repentance and faith , as previous dispositions and qualifications for baptism , but rather have exhorted them to be baptized , in order to their being taught faith and repentance , with other things commanded by christ to his apostles . but as it plainly appears from other scriptures , that our saviour here excludes from being baptized , those persons of all nations , that are not yet qualify'd for it , i. e. not yet become disciples , or repenting believers , tho' capable of faith and repentance ; so it does not appear to me , that infants disciples are here included , tho' neither qualify'd nor capable , as disciples should be . thus when , col. 2. the apostle tells gentile believers , that they were compleat in christ , seeing they were circumcised in him by his circumcision , and buried and risen with him in baptism , &c. some will from hence assert , that circumcision came in the room of baptism , * and consequently that infants are to be baptized , as before they were to be circumcised , which i can no ways see : nor was ever any such thing pleaded by the apostles , against the christian iews , that were zealous for circumcision . iohn , and christ by his apostle , administred baptism among the iews , while circumcision was still a duty to the iews and their children . i grant , that it may be proved from hence , that circumcision was a figure of the circumcision made without hands , in the putting off the body of the sins of the flesh , but not that circumcision figured baptism : which if it could be proved from hence , yet there does not necessarily follow a necessity of observing this circumstance of age , any more than many other circumstances of the type , as that of the eighth day , of the male sex only , &c. but the analogy will hold thus more properly : as infants in the latter were circumcised , so spiritual infants or babes in christ , that are become like one of these little ones , shall be baptized . therefore that argument from the circumstance of age , being but a meer conjecture , proves nothing . the argument which is taken from the action of christ's blessing infants , does not prove to me , that it is the will of god , that infants are to be baptized , but rather the contrary , in as much as we cannot learn , but that christ dismissed them without baptism . as for that saying of christ , except a man be born again , &c. it does no more infer a necessity of infant 's baptism , than that other of his , except ye eat the flesh of the son of man , &c. does infer a necessity of their partaking at the lord's table . the gospel speaks to persons of years and discretion , and it is they whom it ties to baptism for their salvation , and the baptism which saves them , is the answer of a good conscience towards god in their obedience to the gospel-requirings , which infants are uncapable to discharge . and for the salvation of infants , god is able still to bestow saving mercies upon infants now immediately , as he did before the institution , either of circumcision or baptism . even as it is in the case of faith , he that believeth not , shall be damned : now , because children are no more able to give assent to the gospel , than to dissent therefrom , shall we from thence infer their damnation ? and if the want of faith does not damn them till they are capable of faith , then much more the want of baptism will not damn them , till then , and may therefore be rationally deferr'd till then . as to the promise of the holy ghost to the iews and their children , i cannot understand it , but conditionally , viz. to them , if they should repent and be baptized , ( according to peter's exhortation to them , ) and also to their sons and daughters , of the same capacity to receive the holy spirit 's effects on their natural faculties , upon their repentance and obedience of faith : for , as the word [ children ] in scripture , does not always mean infants , else it would follow , that there were no adult persons in all israel ; so i see no necessity to take it here of infants . as for the holiness of the children of a believer , spoken of 1 cor. 7. 14. ( whatever that holiness be ) it does no more necessarily prove , that infants of believers are for that reason to be baptized , than the holiness of the unbelieving parent there spoken of , will prove , that such an infidel is for that reason to be baptized . for , that holiness of the children , is derived to them from their believing parent , as it is to the unbelieving parent , and not from the gift of the holy ghost . and whereas for an apostolical precedent , there is one pretended from baptizing of stephanas's houshold , it is but a bare conjecture , first , that there were little babes in the family , and secondly , that they were baptized . it is said of the ruler at capernaum , that he believed , and all his house , but it does not thence follow , that there were infants in his house , and that they believed as well as he . one seems just as probable as the other . now , good sir , seeing i can find no certainty or domonstration , and i may say , no probability , in these arguments , that are usually brought from scripture for infant-baptism ; if you can produce any arguments that carry more weight and demonstration in them , for that which you believe to be the truth , and against that which you believe to be an errour , and i ( at present ) a truth , i do earnestly and humbly entreat you , for my soul's sake , and as you are in christian duty and conscience bound to god , to be so good as to impart them to me , for to save my soul from such an errour . and as your so doing may make much , not only for my spiritual , but also for my temporal benefit , so you will thereby greatly oblige , reverend sir , london , feb. 25. 1696. your very humble , and affectionate servant , c. c .......... pray sir , will you be pleased to favour me with some lines , and to direct your letter for me , to be left with mr. — at the — in st. paul's church-yard , and there i will call for it , three weeks hence , and pay for it . vale. to the reverend john wallis , d. d. and professor of geometry in the university of oxford . an answer to the fore-going letter . sir , oxford , feb. 28. 1695 / 6 i received last night , from i know not whom , a letter ( concerning infant-baptism ) dated feb. 25. and signed c. c .......... whether this be a true name , or but a feigned one , i am not certain . but guess it to be the latter ; because i do not remember that i have ever heard of any man of that name . and , as i do not know from whom ; so , neither do i know , how qualify'd : whether with a modest desire to be informed ; or a captious humour , to quarel or cavil at a received truth , as being prepossessed with a prejudice to the contrary . if the latter ; i might answer as the apostle doth in a like case ; if any man list to be contentious , we have no such custome , nor the churches of god. and the scripture seems to me to be written in such a stile , not as to gratify the nicely captious , but to give a reasonable satisfaction to such as are modestly willing to be taught . if any man will do his will , he shall know of the doctrine , whether it be of god. and , the meek he will teach his way . and i do not find that christ thought fit to comply with those who would be curiously inquisitive for a sign from heaven ( when and in what manner they pleased ) to confirm his doctrine : or , with the rich glutton , who would have one sent from the dead to warn his brethren : but would take his own time , and his own way , to satisfy those who were willing to be taught . and , in matters of fact , we must content our selves with a moral certainty , though we have not always a mathematical demonstration . and if , then , any doubt remain , as to matter of fact , we must content our selves with such reasonable satisfaction , as god thinks fit to give us , what is most likely to be true . but i am willing to understand the writer in the other sense ; as content ( without cavilling ) with a reasonable satisfaction . and then , as to this question , concerning matter of fact ; whether christ and his apostles , or the church in their time , did baptize infants : 't is clear , on the one hand , that we cannot be certain that they did not , ( there being no intimation to that purpose ; ) and it is much more reasonable to think they did ; and to practise accordingly . i shall parallel this with another question of like nature . whether women did then , and ought now , to partake of the other sacrament . if it be objected ; that christ at first did celebrate it with men only , ( the twelve apostles ; ) and the apostle directs , let a man ( not woman or child ) examine himself , ( not her self ) and so let him ( not her ) eat of that bread , and drink of that cup. nor do we any where , in scripture , find any express mention of women receiving it . yet i am satisfy'd , notwithstanding this objection , ( and so , i hope , are you ) that they did then , and ought now to receive it . because there is no intimation of the contrary ; and there seems to be the same reason for the women , as for the men , and the like benefit to each ; and women were baptized ( though not formerly circumcised ; ) and did ( as we have reason to presume , though i do not remember that it is expresly said so ) eat of the pass-over ( notwithstanding it be expresly said exod. 12. 48. no vncircumcised person shall eat thereof ; ) the words house and houshold being reasonably supposed to include women and children also ; and that the whole family is to be reputed as a circumcised family , wherein all the males are circumcised . and , the practice of the church , ( which is a great presumption ) hath been always consonant , to admit women , as well as men , to the lord's table . and , in many other cases , particular circumstances may be presumed to be supplied ( from the reasonableness of the thing , and parallel cases , ) though not distinctly expressed in the history of the fact ; as may be amply shewed , if that were necessary . now ( to apply this to the present case ) we are first to consider , what baptism is . it is a solemn rite , appointed by christ , for the solemn admission or incorporation , of the person baptized , into the christian church ; ( as circumcision was , into that of the iews ; ) and , a consecration or dedication of the person baptized , to the service or worship of the father , son , and holy-ghost . and consequently , those who have right to be so admitted , and so dedicated , have right to the solemn rite of such admission , and dedication . next we are to consider , that the children of christians now , have as well a right to be reputed members of the christian church , as the children of iews , of the jewish church ; and consequently to be solemnly received into it : that is , into god's visible church , both of them ; and both a like obligation to be offered or dedicated to the service of the true god. and it is not reasonably to be supposed , that god would so often , and so emphatically make promises to the righteous , and their seed , if there was not somewhat of peculiar preference intended them , beyond those of the wicked , or those that are out of god's visible church . for if no more be intended , than such a conditional promise , if they repent and believe ; this is equally true of the children of the most profligate ; and of heathens , as of jews or christians . how great that is , i will not now dispute ; but what preference did then belong to the jews , i think is now common to christians . otherwise , christ's coming would render the condition of children , worse than before . and particularly , those very children , who in the jewish church were members of the visible church of god , must have ceased to be so , when the christian church took place . contrary to what christ seems to intimate , in that of , suffer little children to come unto me , and forbid them not , for of such is the kingdom of heaven . which intimates a capacity in children of an interest in heaven hereafter , and in the visible church here ; ( especially if by kingdom of heaven , be here meant , the gospel church . ) as likewise to that of , else were your children unclean , but now are they holy . which implies a certain holiness , as to the children of one , though not of both , believing parents ; which they would not have , if neither of the parents were believers . which seems to me so clear an evidence , of some relative holiness , or interest in the visible church , or dedication to the service of god ; as is not easy to be avoided . and that slight evasion , as if it were meant as to bastardy , is so weak , as ( with me ) bears no weight at all . for , though both parents were heathen , the child would not be a bastard . and it is to be considered , that , in all religions , the children are reputed as of the same religion with the parents ( while under their care ) till they do by some act of their own manifest the contrary . the child of a jew is reputed a jew ; of a christian , a christian ; of a heathen , a heathen ; of a papist , a papist ; and so of others . now what belongs to a church , as a church , doth equally belong to the jewish and christian church , and needs no new institution : and consequently , that of having their children in the visible church-communion with themselves ; and the blessing appertaining to that visible communion ; as that of , i will be a god of thee , and of thy seed : and this blessing of abraham , is come upon the gentiles also . and though it is true , that this doth not presently intitle them to heaven ( unless their life be answerable , as neither did that of being the seed of abraham , ) yet it is to be reputed a real advantage , as putting them into a fairer prospect of heaven , and in a greater probability of obtaining saving grace , than if out of the church . and this advantage of the iew above the gentiles which they then had ; the apostle tells us , is much every way : ( yet not so , but that a believer , though not a jew , might be saved by faith ; and an unbeliever , though a jew , would be damned without it . ) and what advantage was then to the jews , ( as god's visible church , ) is now common to the gentiles also . so that the right of believers children , to be within the church , is not a new institution , ( as if we should now look for a distinct institution of infant-baptism , beside that of baptism ; ) but as old as adam , for ought i know ; but the solemn rite of admission into this church , ( to which the child hath a right to be admitted ) is a new institution ; then by circumcision , appointed to abraham ; and now , by baptism , upon a new institution , appointed by christ. by being believers children , they have ius ad rem ; and by being baptized , they have ius in re ; whatever be the priviledge of being within the pale and promise of the visible church . and so long as , by our fault , we debar them from baptism ; we do , so much as in us lyeth , debar them of that advantage , whatever it be . nor is it only a priviledge of the children ( to be thus early admitted into the visible church , with the benefits thereto appertaining , and thus dedicated to the service and worship of god ; ) but a duty of parents , and other superiors , thus to dedicate them , and ( so far as in them lyeth ) give them up to god. and we need not doubt , but that the parent hath a natural right over the child of so doing . and we do not know how soon the effect of such dedication ( upon god's acceptance ) may operate . samson , before he was born , was devoted by manoah , to be a nazarite . and samuel was , by his mother , vowed before he was born , and after presented while an infant , to the special service of god : ieremy is said to be sanctified from his mothers womb ; and paul likewise ; and iohn the baptist , while yet unborn ; and timothy , from a child . and we have no reason to doubt , but many children very early , and even before their birth , may have the habits of grace infused into them , by which they are saved , though dying before the years of discretion . my meaning is , that god may , by his grace , so pre-dispose the soul , to an aptness for good ; as ( by our natural corruption ) we are supposed to be habitually inclined to evil , though not yet in a capacity to act either . for as the habits of corruption , which we call original sin , by propagation ; so may the habits of grace , by infusion , be inherent in the soul , long before ( for want of the use of reason ) we are in capacity to act either ; as is also the rational faculty , before we are in a capacity to act reason . and we may have incouragement to expect , or hope for , such work from god on the heart of a child , from our early devoting him to god's service . and the proper way , by christ appointed , for thus devoting , or offering up persons to god , is baptism , into the name , and to the service of the father , son and holy ghost . i am loth to charge it , as a just judgment of god , for such neglect ; when we see the unbaptized children , of faulty parents , prove lewd and debauch'd persons ; though we have reason to fear , it may be an effect of not devoting them to god by baptism , and a neglect of suitable education . for as we find corruption doth , so ( through god's blessing ) grace may begin to act very early ; and if we may do it , certainly we ought to do it . and as persons , when they be come to age , ought themselves , to give up themselves , and ( as it were ) enter into a sacred covenant with god ; ( and renew it , from time to time ; ) so may the parents ( and ought to do it , so far as in them lyeth ) give up their children to god , and ingage them in such a covenant with him . we know , amongst our selves , a child by his guardians , or his parents , may be put into the possession of an estate , and engaged to the homage and fealty thereunto appertaining , before himself do understand what is done . and in such a covenant we find the israelites to enter ( deut. 29. 10. &c. ) in the name of themselves , their wives , and their little ones , and even of those then present , and those not present at that day . and of a like tenour we suppose to be those mention'd of ioshua , asa , iehojada , iosiah , that god should be a god to them , and they a people to him . which is the same , for substance , which a person of age makes for himself , and the parent for the child in baptism . and if children be thus capable , or their parents for them , of entering thus into covenant with god ; why not of receiving the seal of such covenant ? and why not that of baptism now , as well as of circumcision before ? for the child is passive in both . and , if capable , you admit it to be a duty . for your exception is , that it is to be understood of persons in a capable condition . now , that infants are capable of being admitted members of god's visible church ; and capable of being dedicated to god's service , i think is no question ; which are the business of baptism . i know it is objected , that it is said matth. 28. 19. go teach all nations , baptizing them &c. and therefore they are first to be taught ( which child●en cannot be ) before they are baptized . and others ( who put a greater force upon the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ) chose rather to render it , go make disciples all nations , baptizing them &c. and therefore ( say they ) they are to be made disciples ( by faith and repentance ) before they are baptized . now i can well enough admit , that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 may there be rendered by make disciples ( and perhaps better than teach ; ) but their inference from thence , is a great mistake . for , go make disciples by faith and repentance ; will not be good sense . for faith and repentance are to be works of the persons baptized , not of the baptizer . and 't is preposterous to think faith and repentance intended in the word matheteusate . for christ is here speaking to his apostles ; instructing them , what they are to do in planting a christian church . ( not what each respective christian is to do in a church thus planted : for that is to come-in after , amongst the things that are to be taught . ) and the words lie plainly thus ; go , disciple all nations , ( that is , gather disciples of all nations , or indifferently of any nation , jews or gentiles , all the world over , ) baptizing them in the name of the father , and of the son , and of the holy ghost ; teaching them to observe all things whatsoever i have commanded you . or thus , ( those who are here called disciples , being after called christians ; the disciples were called christians first in antioch , act. 11. 26. ) make christians of all nations , baptizing them — and teaching them — . and , ( if we would lay stress upon the order of the words , baptizing is to go before teaching . ) the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ( make disciples ) is here a verb imperative , or preceptive ; and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ( baptizing and teaching ) are participles , exegetical or declarative , how that precept is to be discharged . and it is in a like form as this , ( if the founder of a free-school should thus give instructions to him that he makes school-master , ) make latinists of any parish in london , taking them into the school , and there teaching them the latin tongue . or , in the language of the university ( to the governours there ) make scholars , or learned men , of any county in england , admitting them into the vniversity , or a college , and teaching them what is to be there learned . or , in the language of the city ( to the governours , suppose , of the merchants company ) make merchants of any country ; taking apprentices ; and teaching them the trade . ( for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , a disciple , signifies the same as a scholar , a learner , an apprentice . ) would any man now think , that the boy must first be a latinist , before he may be taken into the school ? or , the academick must be a philosopher , or learned man , before he may be admitted in the university ? or , the citizen a skilful merchant , before he may be bound apprentice ? no ; but the quite contrary . so here , he is to be entered a scholar in christ's school , in order to be farther instructed in the christian religion , according to the capacity wherein he is . but , whether one do put himself an apprentice ( if a man , and at his own disposal ) or be put an apprentice by his parents or guardians ( at whose disposal he is ) if a child , is all one , as to learning a trade : and it is all one , whether ( before he be thus put an apprentice ) he have some little skill in the trade , or none at all . and so here ; whether he be of such years ( if not the child of a christian , or have been before neglected ) as to have been taught somewhat of christianity ; or yet an infant , and to know nothing of it . and whether ( as in the former case ) he offer himself to baptism ; or ( as in the latter ) he be tender'd to it by his parents ; he is to be baptized , and to be instructed , each according to the capacity wherein he is . but why it should be neglected , when it may be had sooner , i see no reason ; at least if it be allowed to be a thing desirable , and advantageous . now this , for the most part , was the case of the apostles , when they converted jews or heathens to the christian faith. it was not to be expected , that men at age , and at their own disposal , and brought up in another religion , would be willing to declare themselves christians , and be baptized as such , before they knew somewhat of it ; ( and therefore i would not lay so much stress upon the order of words , as if a person unbaptized might not be taught , if capable of it . ) but when they were so perswaded as to themselves , they did ( with themselves ) bring in those who were under their power . as lydia , and all her houshold ; the iaylor , and all his ; the houshold of stephanas , cornelius , and all his ; and the like , i suppose , of others . and to this purpose i understand that of act. 2. repent , and be baptized every one of you , whether jews or gentiles , ( this being a mixture of many nations ) for the remission of sins , — for the promise is to you , and to your children , ( as well as to abraham , and his children , ) and to as many as our lord shall call , ( and to their children ; for this i suppose to be understood . ) for , though i know that children doth not always signify infants ; yet , if no more were meant of their children , than of all the world beside , there was no occasion of naming children , but the sense had been as full without it . now it cannot reasonably be supposed , but that there were children in some of those houses ; ( at least it is more likely that there were in some , than that there were none in any of them ; ) and therefore that children were then baptized , as well as others ; especially when there is no intimation to the contrary . and in such cases , where there is a silence in matter of fact ; it is reasonable to think , it was so , as was most likely to be ; especially when nothing appears to the contrary , and great presumptions of it . i know there is sometime mention of faith , in order to being baptized ; but it is of grown persons . nor is it always meant of saving faith , and a cordial conversion ; but a profession of faith , or a professed willingness to be baptized , and declaring themselves christians . for 't is said , simon himself believed also , and was baptized : which cannot be meant of saving faith , and a real conversion ; for we find him afterward , in the gall of bitterness , and bond of iniquity . and when so many thousands were baptized in one day , we cannot think they were all singly examined , so as to give ( at least a probable ) evidence of saving grace : but , their willingness to be baptized , was a sufficient evidence of their declaring themselves christians , or professing christianity . and when all ierusalem , and all iudea , and all the region about iordan ( that is , great multitudes from all those parts , ) went out to iohn baptist , and were baptized of him , confessing their sins ; it cannot be supposed that such multitudes were all singly examined , and made particular confessions of their sins ; but , the verbal expressions of many , with the silent consent of the rest , and the concurrent actings of all , was an evident declaration of their common sentiments . and it can hardly be thought , that they did not ( many of them ) bring children with them ; since we know they had then an opinion , that children were capable of benefit from the benediction of prophets , and persons extraordinary ; as appears by their bringing of little children to christ , ( such as to be taken up in arms ) for him to lay his hands on them and bless them . now if each of these considerations be not , singly , convictive : yet so many together , of which each is highly probable , and when as nothing ( so much as probable ) doth appear to the contrary : it seems to me so great an evidence ( in matter of fact , ) that children were then baptized ; that i do not at all doubt , but that we are rather to think , that infants were then baptized , than that they were not . to which we may add , the continual concurrence of the churches practice , for near sixteen hundred years ; which , in matter of fact , is a great evidence . for i do not know , that in any age of the church , it was ever so much as questioned , or at all doubted , ( but that the children of christians might be lawfully baptized , ) till that about 100 years since ( in our grandfathers time ) the anabaptists in germany did ( amongst many other extravagant notions ) begin to cavil at it . when as , in all the former ages of the church , nearer to the apostles time , i do not know that any history doth mention , that it was ever questioned . whereas a thing of such daily practice , if at any time , in any part of the christian church , it had received any considerable opposition ; it could not be , but that some history would have taken notice of it . and , in such a case , a constant silence is , to me , a sufficient evidence , that it hath been a constant practice ( even from the apostles time ) without any opposition . and , if so , no doubt , but by them also . and i do not know of any thing alleged , with any shew of evidence , why we should think the contrary . if any ( who were not the children of christians , but converted from heathenism ) have defer'd their baptism too long ; i think they were faulty in so doing . but if any will obstinately think , that paul and peter had not , each of them , two hands , and on each hand five fingers , because it is no where in scripture ( that i know of ) said that they had so : and , that therefore , we are rather to think they had not , than that they had ; i cannot help it . these are my thoughts , hastily drawn up ; and i pray god they may ( through his blessing ) be effectual to your satisfaction . yours , iohn wallis . for mr. c — to be left with mr. — at the — in st. paul's church-yard , till it be called for . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a67377-e200 * perhaps he meant to say , baptism came in the room of circumcision . the fallacy of infants baptisme discovered. or, five arguments, to prove that infants ought not to be baptized. delivered in private by captain hobson, who should that day (with master knowls, and some others;) have discussed the thing in publike with master callamy, and master cranford, &c. and now published for the benefit of those that seeke the truth in love. hobson, paul. this text is an enriched version of the tcp digital transcription a86419 of text r200461 in the english short title catalog (thomason e311_18). textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. the text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with morphadorner. the annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. this text has not been fully proofread approx. 37 kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from 12 1-bit group-iv tiff page images. earlyprint project evanston,il, notre dame, in, st. louis, mo 2017 a86419 wing h2272 thomason e311_18 estc r200461 99861201 99861201 113329 this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons 0 1.0 universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase 1, no. a86419) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set 113329) images scanned from microfilm: (thomason tracts ; 51:e311[18]) the fallacy of infants baptisme discovered. or, five arguments, to prove that infants ought not to be baptized. delivered in private by captain hobson, who should that day (with master knowls, and some others;) have discussed the thing in publike with master callamy, and master cranford, &c. and now published for the benefit of those that seeke the truth in love. hobson, paul. s. s. [6], 2, 15, [1] p. [s.n.], london. : printed in the yeer of discoveries. 1645. editor's note "to the courteous reader" signed: s.s. page numbers 1-2 repeated. annotation on thomason copy: "decemb: 10th". reproduction of the original in the british library. eng infant baptism -early works to 1800. a86419 r200461 (thomason e311_18). civilwar no the fallacy of infants baptisme discovered. or, five arguments, to prove that infants ought not to be baptized.: delivered in private by ca hobson, paul. 1645 6737 6 0 0 0 0 0 9 b the rate of 9 defects per 10,000 words puts this text in the b category of texts with fewer than 10 defects per 10,000 words. 2008-10 tcp assigned for keying and markup 2008-12 spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images 2009-01 scott lepisto sampled and proofread 2009-01 scott lepisto text and markup reviewed and edited 2009-02 pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion the fallacy of infants baptisme discovered . or , five arguments , to prove that infants ought not to be baptized . delivered in private by captain hobson , who should that day ( with master knowls , and some others ; ) have discussed the thing in publike with master callamy , and master cranford , &c. and now published for the benefit of those that seeke the truth in love . col. 2.23 . which things have indeed a shew of wisdome in will worship . isai. 1.12 . who hath required this at your hands ? london , printed in the yeer of discoveries . 1645. to the courteous reader . reader , i who am one that waits upon truth , desiring to know truth , but am not to be considered under any of those names of distinction , as a member of any independent congregation , or one that they call an anabaptist , but a friend to them and others , so far as they are one with the truth : i having by a providence , had an oportunity to hear one captain hobson ( with two ministers more ) in private , who should have disputed in publike with master callamy and some others , about the point of baptisme , having taken the heads of what captain hobson delivered , and conceiving that the good which i received by it , should engage me to communicate it to others , i was therefore willing to put it forth in print . but i desire you ( christian reader ) that you would consider that it is but the heads of what hee delivered , as i tooke it from him in short-hand , and therefore if there be any broken expressions in it , attribute it not to him , but to me , who am not so well skild ( as in understanding , so ) in writing syllogismes , which ( i understand ) he was enjoyned so to speak , had he spoke in publike , and he seemed to be willing to speake in private , as he should have done there . there was two ministers more who exercised also , whose arguments were worthy the printing , could i have taken them so as to bring them out but not taking of them so perfectly , i was loath to dishonour that truth that i believe was in them . my desire is , that neither i nor you , may so look upon this , under the consideration of that division that seems to be amongst men of presbyterians and anabaptists , and separatists , but that these names of distinction may bee laid down , and that we may all as sonnes of truth , try every thing by the rules of truth , and love each other in truth , which i know is that which would put an end to that great confusion and trouble that i see abroad . and i hope when you have read this , you will see ( as well as i ) that we have for a long time been led in blindnesse , taking that upon trust , which now i see is contrary to scripture , even infants baptisme . so desiring you to passe by infirmities in it , and make a good construction of it , i leave you to truth , desiring you not to have any prejudiciall thoughts against him that spake it , notwithstanding any infirmities you may see in him that writes it . yours in the lord jesus , s.s. the fallacy of infants baptisme discovered . dearest freinds : seeing a providence hath brought us together at this time , i shall therefore endevour , according to the intent of our meeting to declare my selfe , and so declare my selfe , that i may not only answer your expectations , but directly our intentions , in speaking to the point in hand , which this day should have been discussed in publike : but seeing a providence hath prevented us ; and wee who thought to have been in publike , are now prevented by the civill magistrate , whom wee much honour ; and with all willing subjection , are willing to obey in all things that crosse not the lord jesus christ : and truly here is that which stayes our spirits , though wee were willing to declare our judgments in publike , to the view of many ; yet if god will have it other wayes , herein is our joy that the truth knowes how best to make out it selfe ; and it god by our silence , will cause truth to speake , wee rejoyce : or if the time is not yet come to have things brought to a publike view , wee desire to wayte upon god , knowing that his time is best to make out truth to the sons of men . but before i addresse my selfe to what i intend to speake , i desire that you would give mee leave to speake to two or three things : first , to desire you not to thinke it strange that not onely one , but two , or three should speak to one , and the same thing . secondly , that you would not think it strange for us to trade so much in the shadow , in breaking up the shell , and not a little to trade in the kernell ; my meaning is , that wee should speake so much of the outward ordinance ; and not enter into the unfolding of the sweet , and glorious mystery of god in christ , wrapt up in the ordinance , which is the life as of the ordinance , so of saints while they are observing it . thirdly , i desire that you would not thinke it strange for mee to speake to you , contrary to my wonted practice , which i shall at this time doe , onely speaking in a syllogisticall way ; for the truth is , i shall here endeavour to declare my selfe in private , as i did intend , to declare my selfe in publike ; and the same grounds i intended to lay downe in publike , i shall lay downe here against the baptizing of infants . and the reason of my speaking syllogistically , is because it was an injunction laid upon us so , to speake , had we met in publike . but before i come to lay downe my reasons , i shall take a portion of scripture , and draw a conclusion , which conclusion shall be as a ground , from whence i purpose to build all my following discourse , the scripture is . matth. 28.20 . teaching them to observe all things whatsoever i have commanded you . in the words there are these two things considerable : an exhortation , and a sweet direction . the exhortation doth arise from the words considered in reference to the words before , ( verse 19. ) go●e therefore and teach all nations . the direction in these words , teaching them to observe whatsoever i have commanded you . in the exhortation ( if we had time ) we might observe : first , the party exhorting ; that 's christ . secondly , the parties exhorted ; that was the disciples , or apostles , who were taught of christ . thirdly , the matter exhorted to , go teach . from all which you may observe this conclusion . that it is the duty of all those who are taught of christ , to declare to other what they enjoy from christ . but this is not that which i intend to build my following discourse upon . therefore i passe it over . and i come to the direction , in which we may observe . first , the party directing . secondly , the parties directed . and thirdly , the direction it self . firt , the party directing ; that 's christ . secondly , the parties directed , that is the aposles , on the disciples in this word ye . and thirdly , the direction it self , in these words , go and teach them to observe whatsoever i have commanded you . that which i shall at this time speak of , is in the direction it self ; and from thence briefly observe with me these things . doct. 1 first , that the teachings of the apostles concerning our duty to christ , are the command of christ : in these words , teach them to observe whatsoever i command you . so that their teaching duty to christ , was the command of christ . the second conclusion is from these words , teach them to observe whatsoever i command . doct. 2 thence observe , that the commands of christ ought to be observed . i might be large in speaking of this ; first , because i see men are apt rather to observe the commands of men then the commands of christ ; and so do exceedingly slight and undervalue the commands of christ . secondly , because i apprehend that men are apt to mistake in the commands of christ , and to take that for a command that is not ; and to make that no command that is . but i shall not at this time speak of that . the third conclusion doth arise from something included in these words , teach them to observe what i command . implying not onely that we should observe christs commands ; but in observing any thing as a duty to christ , it must be in reference to a command of christ , from thence observe this conclusion . doct. 3 that all that we are to observe as a duty to christ , must not arise from supposition , but it must answer a command given out from christ . and at this time this is the conclusion i shall speak to ; explaining the terms , and confirming the proposition ; being that which i intend to build my following discourse upon . and in opening the terms , i shall be very brief : first , to shew you what is meant by the law of christ , or the commands of christ . secondly , what i mean by observation . thirdly , what i mean by supposition . fourthly , the reasons why we are to observe nothing as a duty to christ , but that which answers a law given forth by christ . 1 first , by the commands of christ , my meaning is , not the ceremonial law , which was a type of christ , and did in a dark way hold forth christ . nay , by the laws of christ , or the commands of christ , i do not intend the moral law considered in the hand of moses : though i must tell you , first , i own the authority of that law : secondly , i own the materials of that law : but the obligement of that law , do and live ; ( for so it was considered in the hand of moses ) so it is not to be considered in the hand of christ to us ; for now we are not to do for life ; but because we live : but consider the authority of god , and the materials of the law handed to us in christ , so i own it , and desire all saints may do so . but by the commands of christ , my meaning is , all those commands that christ gave as he was a prophet , priest , and king of his church ; either concerning our beleeving in god , or of our worshiping or walking with god . and so much of that thing . 2 secondly , my meaning by observation , in a word is , actually , and truely , and really to do and conform to what christ commands . 3 and what i mean ( in the third place ) by supposition : by that i mean a doubtful apprehension that men gather up consequentially , by the strength of reason and art , and have no plain word for it . now in such a case , supposition of one side , is as strong as of the other : and if it be a duty to observe a thing under such a supposed consequence , then if there be a supposed consequence for the contrary , it is also a duty to observe a thing contrary to that . but a duty doth not consist in answering a supposition , but a command ; and that it doth , i will prove from these reasons . first , because nothing is a duty , but as it answers a command , luke 17.10 . reason 1 reason 2 secondly , every thing that we observe , doth directly answer that light which doth present the thing to us to be observed . if it be a supposed light , it is but a supposed duty ; if a civil light presents to a civil man any truth of god , in his observation of it , it is but civil in reference to him ; if a legal light presents an evangelical truth , to a legal person , in his observation of it , it is legal in reference to him in his observing ; if a self light present a real duty to an hypocrite , he observes it for self-ends . this you may see , zach. 7.5 , 6. where he saith , when ye fasted , did ye as all fast unto me , even to me ? so then if a man observes a thing onely from supposition , and not a command , at the best , it is but a supposed duty . reason 3 but thirdly , the will of christ is , that as his members are to beleeve in light , so they should do in light , or obey in light , ephes. 5.8 . but if we observe any thing barely from supposition , and not from a command , it is observed in darknesse , and not in light : therefore not as a duty to be observed . reason 4 fourthly , we are so to observe things that we present to christ , that not onely the manner , but the matter should not come under the reproofs of christ ; but if we observe any thing as a duty to christ , and have no command for it from christ , it comes under the reproof of christ ; and he will one day say , who hath required this as your hands ? the gospel forbids will-worship . now , will-worship is not onely to do a thing contrary to a command ; but to do a thing that is thought right or good by the wisdom of man ; as worship without a command , which the apostle condemns , col. 2. reason 5 fifthly , christ doth not only hold forth his laws so as to declare duty ; but so as that they may be sufficient to stop the mouths of them that oppose duty , matth. 5.16 . but to observe any thing as a duty , and not from a command of christ , but from supposition ; that is not sufficient to stop the mouths of them that oppose duty : therefore ought not to be done ; for you must know suppositions ( as i said before ) are as strong of one side as of the other . reason 6 sixthly , the sixth reason i shall draw from those words , rom. 15.4 . where he saith , what is written , is written for our learning : i shall form my reason thus , that which is written the saints should learn ; but it is no where written that we should observe any thing as a duty , in reference to supposition , but to answer a command therefore to observe any thing as a duty to christ , without a command , is not a doctrine for saints to learn . reason 7 in the seventh place , i might give you one reason more , and that thus , that which answers the love of christ , and our friendly relation with christ , that 's duty and nothing else ; but to observe any thing not from supposition , but to answer a law or command of christ ; that 's that which answers to the love of christ , and our friendly relation with christ , and therefore duty , john 14.23 . and 15.14 . these reasons ( dearest friends ) i have given to you to confirm what before i spake , which was , that we are to observe nothing as a duty to christ , but that which answers a law given forth by christ . i might here draw divers uses , which might be useful for us ; but at this time i shall onely speak of a use of reproof ; to reprove those that will observe things , and in their observing , plead for it as a duty to christ , and yet have no command for it from christ : amongst the rest , this is that which i shall here reprove , the baprizing of infants ; which is the very point in controversie : and because i desire to speak directly to the question as it was stated ; i shall here rehearse to you what the question was , and what they were to prove and what we were to prove . the question was whether infants of beleeving parents were to be baptized , ye● , or no ? they were to prove that it was their duty , and they ought to do it . we were to prove that they ought not to do it . i shall not at all go about to meddle with the justifying of our practice concerning the baptizing of beleevers ; for that is not the point in hand . though i must tell you , it had been but a reasonable thing for them by scripture to endeavour to justifie their practice ; and we by scripture to justifie ours ; and then neither of us would have been put upon the proof of a negative , which every rational man knows is the worst and of the staff . but seeing it was so , i shall therefore direct my speech to give forth my judgement concerning that thing . the reasons that i shall at this time lay down ( according to time and strength ) why children ought not to be baptized , are these : argum. 1 the first is this : that which doth ( not onely accidentally , but ) directly deny christ to be come in the flesh , that ought not to be done : but the baptizing of infants doth directly deny christ to be come in the flesh ; therefore ought it not to be done . i know that no man can deny the major , which is so clearly confirmed , 1 john 4.3 . with divers other places . but at this time i will prove the minor , that baptizing of infants doth directly deny christ to be come in the flesh ; and that i prove thus : that which doth keep on foot that which was before christ , and ended by christ , considered come in the flesh ; that denies christ to be come in the flesh : but the baptizing of infants doth keep on foot that which was before christ , and ended by christ , as come in the flesh ; and therefore it denies christ to be come in the flesh . for the proof of this , first , i shall unfold to you what i mean by that which was before christ , and ended by christ come in the flesh . that which was before christ , was , that god made a covenant with abraham , which covenant ran in the flesh , and was intail'd to generation ; and not upon condition of regeneration . and this you may see , gen. 17.7 , 12. and this was that covenant that circumcision of children had a reference to ; and whosoever was a childe of abraham , considered as a son of the flesh , had a right to it , and might , and did plead for priviledges by it . but when christ came , the natural branches were cut off rom. 11.20 , 21. and no man is now considered a son of abraham , or the seed of abraham , but as he beleeveth , gal. 3.7 , 9 , 14 , 22 , 28 , 29. and now there is no promise that runs forth to any considered in referened to a carnal generation ; but a spiritual regeneration , john 3 , 5. therefore when they came to john ( matth. 3.7 , 8 , 9. ) to be baptized . he takes them off from pleading their priviledge considered in the flesh , and tells them , say not in your heart , you have abraham to your father , and so plead for baptism . but he exhorts them to believe and repent . and by this you see what i mean by that which was before christ , which was , the promises and covenant running in a natural line ; but it is now ended , and runs in a spiritual but now to baptize children because their parents beleeve , and upon this ground , because it was the same ( as they say ) with circumcision ; in so doing they go about to make the promises to run in a natural line , which was ended by christ ; and therefore in the observing of it , deny christ to be come in the flesh . secondly , that which doth directly take from christ that which the holy ghost gives to christ , considered come in the flesh ; that denies christ come in the flesh . but the baptizing of infants doth directly take from christ that which the holy ghost gives to christ considered come in the flesh . therefore it denies christ come in the flesh . and for the proof of this , i shall declare to you what i mean by that which the holy ghost gives to christ considered come in the fl●sh . the holy ghost gives to christ a pre-eminence above all others that were before him in his prophetical and kingly office . in his prophetical office , that neither moses nor the prophets were to be compared with him , but far inferiour to him , and his office ; so inferiour , that he was not to be expounded by them ; but in giving out his minde considered come in the flesh , he was to expound and unfold them . but now men in their going about to plead for the baptizing of infants , do exceedingly undervalue christ's prophetical office in this , that they make the old testament expound the new ; whereas the new should expound the old ; christ should , and doth expound moses ; but there is no warrant for us to bring christ under the exposition of moses ; and men do undervalue the lord christ , in making moses speak that which christ speaks not , or bringing moses to christ , as a greater light to unfold the lesser ; they do ( i say ) exceedingly undervalue christ , and that thus . the light unfolding or the wisdom unfolding , must be greater then the matter unfolded : and therefore he that goeth about to make moses mouth to speak out christ's minde , in things that concern christ as come in the flesh , sets up moses above christ ; and denies christ to be come in the flesh . secondly , they exceedingly take from christ's kingly office ; whereas the holy ghost sets up christ a king in his church , and a law-giver , as equal to , so transcending all others that were before him : but that men in the baptizing of infants do undervalue the kingly office of christ , in giving laws to his people . that 's clear in these two things . first in this , that they say it is a duty to baptize infants , and answers the minde of christ , and yet cannot shew a command from christ ; whereas the apostle saith , christ was as faithful in his house , as moses . and you know the faithfulnesse of moses did consist in this , that he gave laws and commands to the israelites , to declare their duty : and layes nothing upon them as a duty , but what they had a command for . and it he gave them laws for every thing they were to observe , and christ was as faithful in his house as he ; i will leave this to the judgement of you , whether or no that this doth not undervalue the kingly office of christ , to say , that baptizing of infants is a duty that they owe to christ ; and yet can shew no command for it from christ . secondly , they undervalue the kingly office of christ , in giving laws to his church in this ; that they go about to perform ( as they say ) a duty to christ , but can shew no command for it from christ ; but must use there own art and reason to make christs law strong enough to hold it out to be a duty . and whether the joyning of mans art , policy , and reason to the laws of christ , doth not exceedingly undervalue christ , as though his laws were not perfect enough for his people , i leave you to judge . and in so doing they do exceedingly take ( as before i said from the prophetical , so here in the kingly office of christ ) that honour and preheminence from him , which the holy ghost gives to him , considered as come in the flesh : and therefore so to do , denies christ as come in the flesh . secondly , that which is no part of righteousnesse , that as a duty to christ , ought not to be observed . but , the baptizing of infants is no part of righteousnesse ; and therefore it ought not to be observed . the major proposition none can deny , i will prove the minor , and that thus . whatsoever is considered as a part of righteousnesse , was seen either in the person or practice of jesus christ . but neither in the person nor practice of jesus christ , is the baptizing of infants seen or held forth . therefore it is not part of righteousnesse . and that whatsoever is a part of righteousnesse , was seen in the person or practice of jesus christ , is clear from this scripture , matth. 3.15 . and jesus said , suffer it to be so : for thus is becometh us to fulfil all righteousnesse . if all righteousnesse , then there was no righteousnesse but was confidered either in the person or practice of christ . and that the baptizing of infants is not-held out in the person or practice of christ , i leave to you to judge . he himself was not baptized when he was an infant , though he might plead the same priviledge as they do who say they are children of beleevers : had it been a part of righteousnesse , christ would ; nay , christ should have done it . object . if you object , and say , there was none to baptize him before : answ . i answer , had it been a part of righteousnesse , god in a providence would have provided one before , as well as then ; for he was to fulfil all righteousnesse . and for his practice ( though he baptized not , but his disciples , john 4.2 . ) yet , in all their baptizing where christ was , you never hear that ever they baptized any infant , or gave any command for it ; and therefore it is no part of righteousnesse , and ought not to be done . thirdly , that which is not the baptism of christ , that ought not to be done . but the baptizing of infants is not the baptism of christ ; and therefore ought not to be done ( we are now speaking of the baptism of christ , considered in an external way . ) and that the baptism of infants , is not the baptism of christ so considered ; i prove thus . first , that which doth not answer the commission of christ , that is not the baptism of christ . but , the baptism of infants doth not answer the commission of christ ; therefore it is not the baptism of christ . that it doth not answer the commission of christ , it is clear from the commission it self , matth. 28.19 , 20. mark 16.15 , 16. where you shall see these things in the commission , go teach , discipling , and baptizing . and they that were to be baptized , were such as must first be taught , and discipled , and being beleevers , must be baptized , mark 16.16 . and that an infant in the first place , is capable to be taught the mystery of the gospel , and so to be taught as to be made a disciple of christ , and a beleever in christ . it is clear that it cannot be ; and therefore the baptizing of them , doth not answer the commission of christ . every man that professes to act by a commission , most not onely do things because there is not an express command against it : but if they observe any thing as a duty ; they must have a command for it , in , and by it ; or else it will come under the reproof of him that gives the commission ; as those come under the reproof of christ ( collos●…i● ) who by the wisdom of men , went to present a will-worship to god . and so you see the baptizing of infants doth not answer the commission of christ ; and therefore it is none of christs baptism , and ought not to be done . secondly , christs baptism is a baptism of faith , and a baptism of repentance . but , the baptism of infants cannot be a baptism of faith and a baptism of repentance . therefore it is not the baptism of christ ; and ought not to be done . argum. 4 fourthly , that which causeth inconveniences in the church , that ought not to be done . but , the baptizing of infants doth cause inconveniences in the church ; therefore it ought not to be done . i must tell you ( dear friends ) for this argument , i borrowed it from them that oppose the thing , who laid down this as an argument for baptizing of infants ; and that thus : that which causeth inconveniences in the church , that ought not to be done : but , ( say they ) the denying of childrens baptism , causeth inconveniences in the church ; and therefore it ought not to be 〈◊〉 . and to prove this , they go to prove a supposition by a supposition ; and that thus : it will make the children of beleevers ( say they ) to be no other wayes then the children of heathens ; and so they go about to prove a consequence by a consequence ; which is but 〈…〉 upon . but that the baptizing of infants doth cause inconvenience in the church , i will prove from scripture : and that thus ; that which doth not onely , present one , but make one a member of a church ; before being called of god , that is inconvenient : but , the baptizing of infants makes them members of their church , before they are called of god ; and therefore it is inconvenient , and contrary to these scriptures , 1 cor. 1.1 . and 2 cor. 1.1 . secondly , that which intails mercies and priviledges to generation , which alone is to be intail'd upon men in reference to regeneration , that is inconvenient . but the baptizing of infants , doth intail mercies and priviledges to them in reference to generation , and not regeneration ; and therefore it is inconvenient , and contrary to this scripture , john 3.5 . gal. 3.9 . with many other places , as 2 cor. 1.1 . where he doth declare that all those that were in the church of christ , and impriviledged with the ordinances of christ , they were fanctified by christ . thirdly , that which causeth a separation , and distraction in christs conjunction ; that 's inconvenient . but , the baptizing of infants , doth make a separation , and distraction in christs conjunction ; and therefore it is inconvenient . by christs conjunction , i mean the onenesse that is between the ground that christ layes down for men to be baptized , and the ground he layes down for men to break bread ; which is one and the same thing : he that beleeves , and knows , and discerns christ , he is to be baptized , acts 8.37 . and he that doth so , is to break bread , in remembrance of christ , 1 cor. 11. now , those that plead so much for the baptizing of infants , by the same ground they would baptize infants upon , they will not admit them nor others to break bread ; and therefore as christs ground is one , theirs is two : and under that consideration , they make a separation in that which christ makes a onenesse ; and that is inconvenient in the church of christ , and ought not to be done . argum. 5 fifthly , that which doth directly crosse the proceedings in the time of the law , and in the time of the gospel . that ought not to be done . but , the baptizing of infants , doth directly crosse the proceedings in the time of the law , and in the time of the gospel ; and therefore it ought not to be done . by that , i mean , that no man in the time of the law , and in the time of the gospel was to do any thing by the vertue of a right , without a rule ; but whatsoever they did as a duty , it was to answer a rule . had abraham been circumcised by the vertue of a right , as he was a beleever , and not by the vertue of a rule ; then lot might have pleaded for the same priviledge , for he was a beleever as well as abraham ; yet god did not make choice of lot , but of abraham . and then , ishmael should not have been circumcised , but onely isaa● ; but though ishmael was a son of the flesh , and cast out by god , and not a beleever in god ; yet he must be circumcised : and therefore this was not by the vertue of a right , but by the vertue of a rule . the same thing also was in the time of the gospel , where it is clearly discovered that christ owns nothing as a duty , but as it answers a law ; and they were to do nothing pleading a right , without a rule ; but to do all things by the vertue of a rule : therefore under that consideration , will-worship was condemned . now if there be any rule , or any command in the scripture for infants to be baptized , i desire they would shew it : here is the word of truth , which justifies all things sutable to it self ; and owns nothing else to be a truth . and i do exceedingly wonder that any men should go about to plead for a thing by the vertue of a right , without a rule . i have much more to say to you in this thing , had i time and strength : but , i hope these five grounds that i have here laid down , will clearly discover to you , that infants ought not to be baptized . i am not here now to prove to you the baptizing of beleevers ; that 's not the controversie in hand , though a thing clear by scripture ; and that which i should be glad if i had an occasion to speak of . not onely to speak of baptism in the letter , but baptism in the spirit , which was the mystry of the gospel , and the glorious excellency of christ in the spirit , held out in the administrations of christ considered in the flesh ; which administrations in the flesh , are as so many signes to declare the mystery of the spirit ; though i know none can understand it , but they that do injoy it ; for none can unletter the letter , but the spirit : but i cease from that , and cease giving you any further reasons ( at this time ) to prove that which we were to have proved in publike , had we had liberty ; which was , that infants ought not to be baptized . but i leave them and you so to the truth ; desiring that we may all be taught by the truth ; and sweetly made one in the truth ; and carried out from thence , to walk up in an acknowledgement of the truth , sutable to the rules of it self . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a86419e-520 doct. 1 what the law of christ or the commands of christ is . 2 what is meant by observation . 3 what is meant by supposition . the reasons why we are to observe nothing as a duty , but that which answers a law , or command of christ . isal. 1.12 . vse . col. 1.18 . phil. 2.9 . joh. 6.68 . matth. 11.9 . luke 24.19 . matth. 5.21 , 22 , 27 , 28. isai. 9.6 , 7. revel. 15.3 . heb. 3.2 , 3. dy. 3. acts 8.37 . mark 16.16 . acts 8.12 . acts 2.38 . acts 28.8 . isai. 8.20 . an appendix to the answer unto two athenian mercuries concerning pedo-baptism containing twenty seven syllogistical arguments proving infant-baptism a mere humane tradition : the gentlmen called the athenian society desiring in the last of the said mercuries to have syllogism / by b. k. keach, benjamin, 1640-1704. 1692 approx. 39 kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from 6 1-bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : 2005-12 (eebo-tcp phase 1). a47371 wing k45 estc r2646 13663404 ocm 13663404 101137 this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons 0 1.0 universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase 1, no. a47371) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set 101137) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, 1641-1700 ; 792:6) an appendix to the answer unto two athenian mercuries concerning pedo-baptism containing twenty seven syllogistical arguments proving infant-baptism a mere humane tradition : the gentlmen called the athenian society desiring in the last of the said mercuries to have syllogism / by b. k. keach, benjamin, 1640-1704. [2], 8 p. printed for the author and sold by john harris ..., london : 1692. written by benjamin keach. cf. halkett & laing. reproduction of original in bodleian library. created by converting tcp files to tei p5 using tcp2tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between 1473 and 1700 available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the 25,363 texts created during phase 1 of the project have been released into the public domain as of 1 january 2015. anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. 5% (or 5 pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of 100 instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level 4 of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p5, characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng athenian society (london, england) infant baptism -early works to 1800. 2005-04 tcp assigned for keying and markup 2005-05 aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images 2005-08 jonathan blaney sampled and proofread 2005-08 jonathan blaney text and markup reviewed and edited 2005-10 pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion an appendix to the answer unto two athenian mercuries , concerning pedo-baptism . containing twenty seven syllogistical arguments , proving infant-baptism a mere humane tradition . the gentlemen called the athenian society , desiring in the last of the said mercuries to have syllogisms . ephes . 4. 5. one lord , one faith , one baptism . by b. k. london , printed for the author , and sold by john harris at the sign of the harrow in the poultry . mdcxcii . price two pence . an appendix to the answer to two athenian mercuries , concerning infant-baptism , containing divers syllogistical arguments to disprove pedo-baptism , and to prove the baptism of believers . gentlemen , since you desire syllogisms , i have gratified you therein . arg. 1. if none are to be baptized by the authority of the great commission of our blessed saviour , matth. 28. but such who are first made disciples by being taught ; than insants , who are not capable to be taught , ought not to be baptized . but none are to be baptized by the authority of the great commission of our blessed saviour , but such who are first made disciples by teaching . ergo , little babes ought not to be baptized . arg. 2. if infant-baptism was never instituted , commanded , or appointed of god , infants ought not to be baptized . but infant-baptism was never instituted , commanded , or appointed of god. ergo , they ought not to be baptized . as to the major ; if one thing may be practised as an ordinance without an institution or command of god , another thing may also ; so any innovation may be let into the church . as to the minor ; if there is an institution for it , &c. 't is either contained in the great commission , matth. 28. mark 16. or somewhere else . but 't is not to be found in the commission , nor any where else . ergo. the major none will deny . the minor i prove thus . none are to be baptized by virtue of the commission , but such who are discipled by the word , as i said before , and so the greek word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signifies . if any should say , christ commanded his disciples to baptize all nations , and infants are part of nations , therefore are to be baptized . i answer ; arg. 3. if all nations , or any in the nations ought to be baptized before discipled ; then turks , pagans , unbelievers and their children may be baptized , because they are a great part of the nations . but turks , pagans and unbelievers , and their children , ought not to be baptized . ergo. besides that , teaching ( by the authority of the commission ) must go before baptizing , we have proved ; which generally all learned men do assert : if the institution is to be found any where else , they must shew the place . arg. 4. faith and repentance are required of all that ought to be baptized . infants are not required to believe and repent , nor are they capable so to do . ergo , infants ought not to be baptized . the major is clear , acts 2 , 8 , 10 , 16 chapters ; and 't is also asserted by the church of england . what is required of persons to be baptized ? that 's the question . the answer is , repentance , whereby they forsake sin ; and faith , whereby they stedfastly believe the promise of god made to them in that sacrament . the minor cannot be denied . arg. 5. that practice that tends not to the glory of god , nor to the profit of the child , when done , nor in after-times when grown up , but may prove hurtful and of a dangerous nature to him , cannot be a truth of god. but the practice of infant-baptism tends not to the glory of god , nor to the profit of the child when baptized , nor in after-times when grown up , but may prove hurtful and of a dangerous nature to him . ergo. see levit. 10. 1 , 2. where moses told aaron , because his sons had done that which god commanded them not , that god would be sanctified by all that drew near unto him ; intimating , that such who did that which god commanded not , did not sanctify or glorify god therein . can god be glorified by man's disobedience , or by adding to his word ; by doing that which god hath not required ? matth. 16. 9. in vain do you worship me , teaching for doctrine the commandments of men : and that that practice doth profit the child , none can prove from god's word : and in after-times when grown up , it may cause the person to think he was thereby made a christian , &c. and brought into the covenant of grace , and had it sealed to him , nay , thereby regenerated , for so these gentlemen in their mercury , decemb. 26. plainly intimate , and that infants are thereby ingrafted also into christ's church . sure all understanding men know baptism of believers is not called regeneration , but only metonymically , it being a figure of regeneration . but they ignorantly affirm also , that infants then have a federal holiness ; as if this imagined holiness comes in by the child's covenant in baptism , which may prove hurtful and dangerous to them , and cause them to think baptism confers grace , which is a great error . how can water , saith mr. charnock , an external thing , work upon the soul physically ? nor can it , saith he , be proved , that ever the spirit of god is tied by any promise , to apply himself to the soul in a gracious operation , when water is applied to the body : if it were so , then all that were baptized were regenerated , then all that were baptized should be saved , or else the doctrine of perseverance falls to the ground . some indeed , says he , say , that regeration is conferred in baptism upon the elect , and exerts it self afterwards in conversion . but how so active a principle as a spiritual life should lie dead and asleep so many years , &c. is not easily conceived . on regen . p. 75. arg. 6. if the church of england says , that faith and repentance are required of all that ought to be baptized , and in so saying , speak truly , and yet infants can't perform those things ; then infants ought not to be baptized . but the church of england says , that faith and repentance are required of all such , &c. and speak truly , and yet infants cannot perform these things . ergo , infants ought not to be baptized . object . if it be objected , that they affirm they do perform it by their sureties . answ . if suretiship for children in baptism is not required of god , and the sureties do not , cannot perform those things for the child : then suretiship is not of god , and so signifies nothing , but is an unlawful and sinful undertaking . but suretiship in childrens baptism is not required of god , and they do not , cannot perform what they promise . ergo. do they , or can they cause the child to forsake the devil and all his works , the pomps and vanities of this wicked world , and all the sinful lusts of the flesh ? in a word ; can they make the child or children to repent and truly believe in jesus christ ? for these are the things they promise for them , and in their name . alas , they want power to do it for themselves , and how then should they do it for others ? besides , we see they never mind nor regard their covenant in the case : and will not god one day say , who has required these things at your hands ? arg. 7. if there be no precedent in the scripture , ( as there is no precept ) that any infant was baptized , then infants ought not to be baptized . but there is no precedent that any infant was baptized in the scripture . ergo. if there is any precedent or example in scripture that any infant was baptized , let them shew us where we may find it . erasmus saith , 't is no where expressed in the apostolical writings , that they baptized children . vnion of the church , and on rom. 6. calvin saith , it is no where expressed by the evangelists , that any o●e the infant was baptized by the apostles . instit . c. 16. book 4. ludovicus vives saith , none of old were wont to be baptized but in grown age , and who desired and understood what it was . vide ludov. the magdeburgenses say , that concerning the baptizing the adult , both jews and gentiles , we have sufficient proof from acts 2 , 8 , 10 , 16 chapters ; but as to the baptizing of infants , they can 〈…〉 no example in scripture . 〈…〉 l. 2. p. 469. dr. taylor saith , it is 〈◊〉 the perpetual analogy of 〈…〉 baptize infants : for besides that christ never gave any precept to baptize them , nor ever himself nor his apostles ( that appears ) did baptize any of them : all that either he or his apostles said concerning it , requires such previous dispositions of baptism , of which infants are not capable , viz. faith and repentance . lib. proph. p. 239. arg. 8. if whatsoever which is necessary to faith and practice is left in the holy scripture , that being a compleat and perfect rule , and yet infant-baptism is not contained or to be sound therein , then infant-baptism is not of god. but whatever is necessary to faith and practice , is contained in the holy scriptures , &c. but infant-baptism is not to be found therein . ergo. that the scripture is a perfect rule , &c. we have the consent of all the ancient fathers and modern divines . athanasius saith , the holy scriptures being inspirations of god , are sufficient to all instructions of truth . athan. against the gentiles . chrysostom saith , all things be plain and clear in the scripture ; and whatsoever are needful ▪ are manifest there . chrysost . on 2 thess. and 2 tim. 2. basil saith that it would be an argument of infidelity , and a most certain sign of pride , if any man should reject any thing written , and should introduce things not written . basil in his sermon de fide. augustine saith ▪ in the scriptures are found all things which contain faith , manner of living , hope , love , &c. let us , saith he , seek no farther than what is written of god our saviour , lest a man would know more than the scriptures witness . aug. in his 108 epistles to fortunat. theophilact saith , it is part of a diabolical spirit , to think any thing divine , without the authority of the holy scripture . lib. 2. paschal . isychius saith , let us who will have any thing observed of god , search no more but 〈◊〉 which the gospel doth give unto us . 〈…〉 16. on levit. 〈…〉 though the arguments of the anabaptists , from the defect of command or example , have a great use against the lutherans , forasmuch as they use that rite every where , having no command or example , theirs is to be rejected ; yet is it of no force against catholicks , who conclude the apostolical tradition is of no less authority with us than the scripture , &c. this of baptizing of infants is an apostolical tradition . bellarm. in his book de bapt. l. 1. c. 8. mr. ball saith , we must for every ordinance look to the institution , and never stretch it wider , nor draw it narrower than the lord hath made it , for he is the institutor of the sacraments according to his own pleasure ; and 't is our part to learn of him , both to whom , how , and for what end the sacraments are to be administred . ball , in his answer to the new-england elders , p. 38 , 39. and as to the minor , 't is acknowledged by our adversaries , it is not to be found in the letter of the scripture . and as to the consequences drawn therefrom , we have proved , they are not natural from the premises ; and though we admit of consequences and inferences if genuine , yet not in the case of an institution respecting a practical ordinance that is of meer positive right . arg. 9. if infant-baptism was an institution of christ , the pedo-baptists could not be at a loss about the grounds of the right infants have to baptism : but the pedo-baptists are at a great loss , and differ exceedingly about the grounds of the right infants have to baptism . ergo , 't is no institution of christ . as touching the major , i argue thus ; that which is an institution of christ , the holy scripture doth shew , as well the end and ground of the ordinance , as the subject and manner of it . but the scripture speaks nothing of the end or ground of pedo-baptism , or for what reason they ought to be baptized . ergo , 't is no institution of christ . the minor is undeniable ; some affirm , as we have shewed , p. 15. it was to take away original sin. some say it is their right by the covenant , they being the seed of believers . others say , infants ▪ have faith , and therefore have a right . others say , they have a right by the faith of their sureties . some ground their right from an apostolical tradition ; others upon the authority of scripture . some say , all children of professed christians ought to be baptized ; others say , none but the children of true believers have a right to it . sure , if it was an ordinance of christ , his word would soon end this controversy . arg. 10. if the children of believing gentiles , as such , are not the natural nor spiritual seed of abraham , they can have no right to baptism , or church-membership , by virtue of any covenant-transaction god made with abraham , but the children of believing gentiles , as such , are not the natural nor spiritual seed of abraham . ergo. arg. 11. if no man can prove from scripture , that any spiritual benefit redounds to infants in their baptism , 't is no ordinance of christ . but no man can prove from scripture , that any spiritual benefit redounds to infants in their baptism . ergo. arg. 12. that cannot be an ordinance of christ , for which there is neither command nor example in all god's word , nor promise to such who do it , nor threatnings to such who neglect it . but there is no command or example in all the word of god for the baptizing of little babes , nor promise made to such who are baptized , nor threatnings to such who are not . ergo. that the child lies under a promise who is baptized , or the child under any threatning or danger that is not baptized , let them prove it , since it is denied . arg. 13. if no parents , at any time or times , have been by god the father , jesus christ , or his apostles , either commended for baptizing of their children , or reproved for neglecting to baptize them ; then infant-baptism is no ordinance of god. but no parents at any time or times have been by god commended for baptizing of their children , &c. ergo , infant-baptism is no ordinance of god. this argument will stand unanswerable , unless any can shew who they were that were ever commended for baptizing their children , or reproved for neglecting it , or unless they can shew a parallel case . arg. 14. if men were not to presume to alter any thing in the worship of god under the law , neither to add thereto , nor diminish therefrom , and god is as strict and jealous of his worship under the gospel ; then nothing ought to be altered in god's worship under the gospel . but under the law men were not to presume so to do , and god is as strict and jealous under the gospel . ergo. the major cannot be denied . the minor is clear ; see thou make all things according to the pattern shewed thee in the mount , exod. 25. 40. and levit. 10. 1 , 2. see how nadab and abihu sped , for presuming to vary from the command of god , and vzzah , tho but in small circumstances as they may seem to us . how dare men adventure , this being so , to change baptism from dipping into sprinkling , and the subject , from an adult believer , to an ignorant babe ? add thou not unto his word , &c. arg. 15. whatever practice opens a door to any humane traditions and innovations in god's worship , is a great evil , and to be avoided : but the practice of infant-baptism opens a door to any humane traditions and innovations in god's worship . ergo , to sprinkle or baptize infants is a great evil , and to be avoided . the major will not be denied . the minor is clear , because there is no scripture-ground for it , no command nor example for such a practice in god's word . and if without scripture-authority the church hath power to do one thing , she may do another , and so ad insinitum . arg. 16. whatsoever practice reflects upon the honour , wisdom and care of jesus christ , or renders him less faithful than moses , and the new testament in one of its great ordinances , ( nay , sacraments ) to lie more obscure in god's word , than any law or precept under the old testament , cannot be of god. but the practice of infant-baptism reflects on the honour , care and faithfulness of jesus christ , and renders him less faithful than moses , and a great ordinance , ( nay , sacrament ) of the new testament , to lie more dark and obscure than any precept under the old testament . ergo , infant-baptism cannot be of god. the major cannot be denied . the minor is easily proved : for he is bold indeed who shall affirm infant-baptism doth not lie obscure in god's word . one great party who assert it , say , 't is not to be found in the scripture at all , but 't is an unwritten apostolical tradition : others say , it lies not in the letter of the scripture , but may be proved by consequences ; and yet some great asserters of it , as dr. hammond and others , say , those consequences commonly drawn from divers texts for it , are without demonstration , and so prove nothing . i am sure a man may read the scripture a hundred times over , and never be thereby convinced ; he ought to baptize his children , tho it is powerful to convince men of all other duties . now can this be a truth , since christ who was more faithful than moses , and delivered every thing plainly from the father ? moses left nothing dark as to matter of duty , tho the precepts and external rites of his law were numerous , two or three hundred precepts , yet none were at a loss , or had need to say , is this a truth or an ordinance , or not ? for he that runs may read it . and shall one positive precept given forth by christ , who appointed so few in the new testament , be so obscure , as also the ground and end of it , that men should be confounded about the proofs of it , together with the end and ground thereof ? see heb. 3. 5 , 6. arg. 17. that custom or law which moses never delivered to the jews , nor is any where written in the old testament , was no truth of god , nor of divine authority . but that custom or law to baptize proselytes either men , women or children , was never given to the jews by moses , nor is it any where written in the old testament . ergo , it was no truth of god , nor of divine authority : and evident it is , as sir norton knatchbul shews , that the jewish rabbins differed among themselves also about it : for , saith he , rabbi elizer expresly contradicts rabbi joshua , who was the first i know of who asserted this sort of baptism among the jews : for eliezer , who was contemporary with rabbi joshua , if he did not live before him , asserts , that a proselyte circumcised and not baptized , was a true proselyte . arg. 18. if baptism is of mere positive right , wholly depending on the will and sovereign pleasure of jesus christ , the great legislator : and he hath not required or commanded infants to be baptized : then infants ought not to be baptized : but baptism is of mere positive right , wholly depending on the will and sovereign pleasure of jesus christ , the great legislator , and he hath not required or commanded infants to be baptized . ergo , infants ought not to be baptized . this argument tends to cut off all the pretended proofs of pedo-baptism , taken from the covenant made with abraham ; and because children are said to belong to the kingdom of heaven , it was not the right of abraham's male children to be circumcised , because they were begotten , and born of the fruit of his loins , till he received commandment from god to circumcise them . had he done it before , or without a command from god , it would have been will-worship in him so to have done . moreover , this further appears to be so , because no godly man's children , nor others in abraham's days , nor since , had any right thereto , but only his children , ( or such who were bought with his money , or were proselyted to the jewish religion ) because they had no command from god so to do , as abraham had . this being true , it follows , that if we should grant infants of believing gentiles , as such , were the seed of abraham ( which we deny ) yet unless god had commanded them to baptize their children , they ought not to do it ; and if they do it without a command or authority from christ , it will be found an act of will-worship in them . arg. 19. all that were baptized in the apostolical primitive times , were baptized upon the profession of faith , were baptized into christ , and thereby put on christ , and were all one in christ jesus , and were abraham's seed and heirs , according to promise . but infants , as such , who are baptized , were not baptized upon the profession of their faith , nor did they put on christ thereby , nor are they all one in christ jesus , also are not abraham's seed and heirs according to promise . ergo , infants ought not to be baptized . mr. baxter confirms the substance of the major . these are his very words , i. e. as many as have been baptized have put on christ , and are all one in christ jesus ; and are abraham ' s seed , and heirs , according to the promise , gal. 3. 27 , 28 , 29. this speaks the apostle , saith he , of the probability grounded on a credible profession , &c. baxter's co●firm . reconcil . pag. 32. the minor will stand firm till any can prove infants by a visible profession have put on christ , are all one in christ jesus , are abraham's seed and heirs according to promise . evident it is , none are the spiritual seed of abraham , but such who have the faith of abraham , but such who have the faith of abraham , and are truly grafred into christ , by a saving-faith . if any object , we read of some who were baptized , who had no saving-faith , but were hypocrites . i answer ; had they appeared to be such , they had not been baptized , nor had they a true right thereto . arg. 20. baptism is the solemnizing of the souls marriage-union with christ , which marriage-contract absolutely requires an actual profession of consent . infants are not capable to enter into a marriage-union with christ , nor to make a profession of consent . ergo , infants ought not to be baptized . the major our opposits generally grant , particularly see what mr. baxter saith , our baptism is the solemnizing of our marriage with christ . these are his words , p. 32. the minor none can deny : no man sure in his right mind , will assert that little babes are capable to enter into a marriage-relation with christ , and to make a profession of a consent : and the truth is , he in the next words gives away his cause , viz. and 't is , saith he , a new and strange kind of marriage , where there is no profession of consent ; p. 32. how unhappy was this man to plead for such a new and strange kind of marriage : did he find any little babe he ever baptized ( or rather rantized ) to make a profession of consent to be married to jesus christ . if any should object , he speaks of the baptism of the adult . i answer , his words are these , our baptism is , &c. besides , will any pedo-baptist say , that the baptism of the adult is the solemnizing of the souls marriage with christ , and not the baptism of infants . reader , observe how our opposits are forced sometimes to speak the truth , though it overthrows their own practice of pedo-baptism . arg. 21. if the sins of no persons are forgiven them till they are converted , then they must not be baptized for the forgiveness of them , till they prosess themselves to be converted ; but the sins of no persons are forgiven them till they are converted . ergo , no person ought to be baptized for the forgiveness of them , till they profess they are converted . mr. baxter in the said treatise lays down the substance of this argument also , take his own words , i. e. as their sins are not forgiven them till they are converted , mark 4. 12. so they must not be baptized for the forgiveness of them , till they profess themselves converted , seeing to the church , in esse , and non apparere is all one . repentance towards god , and faith towards our lord jesus is the sum of that preaching that makes disciples , acts 20. 21. therefore , saith he , both these must by a profession seem to be received , before any at age are baptized ; p. 30. 31. and evident it is , say i , from hence none but such at age ought to be baptized . philip caused the eunuch to profess before he would baptize him , that be believed that jesus christ is the son of god. saul had also , saith he , more than a bare profession before baptism , acts 9. 5 , 15 , 17. p. 28. the promise it self , saith he doth expresly require a faith of our own , of all the adult that will have part in the priviledges : therefore there is a faith of our own , that is the condition of our title ; mark 16. 16. p. 16. he might have added by the force of his argument ; therefore infants should not have the priviledges : for i argue thus , viz. arg. 22. if there is but one baptism of water left by jesus christ in the new testament , and but one condition or manner of right thereto : and that one baptism is that of the adult ; then infant-baptism is no baptism of christ . but there is but one baptism in water lest by christ in the new testament , and but one condition and manner of right thereto , and that one baptism is that of the adult . ergo , infant-baptism is no baptism of christ . mr. baxter saith , faith and repentance is the condition of the adult , and as to any other condition , i am sure the scripture is silent ; the way of the lord is one , one lord , one faith , one baptism , ephes . 4. 4. if profession of faith were not necessary , saith mr. baxter , coram ecclesiâ , to church-membership and priviledges , then infidels and heathens would have right ; also , saith he , the church and the world would be confounded . he might have added , but infidels and heathens have no right to church-membership , &c. ergo , 't is a granted case among all christians , saith he , that profession is thus necessary , the apostles and ancient church admitted none without it ; pag. 21. and if so , why dare any now adays admit of infants , who are capable to make no profession . he adds , yea christ in his commission directeth his apostles to make disciples , and then baptize them , promising , he that believeth , and is baptized , shall be saved , mark 16. 16. pag. 27. furthermore he saith , if as many as are baptized into christ , are baptized into his death , and are buried with him by baptism into death , that like as christ was raised from the dead , so we also should-walk in newness of life , &c. then no doubt , saith he , but such as were to be baptized , did first profess this mortification , and a consent to be buried , &c. in our baptism we put off the body of the the sins of the flesh , by the circumcision of christ , being buried with him , and raised with him through faith , quickned with him , and having all our trespasses forgiven , col. 2. 11 , 12 , 13. and will any mau ( says he ) yea , will paul ascribe all this to those that did not so much as profess the things signified ? will baptism , in the judgment of a wise man , do all this for an infidel , ( or , say i , for an infant ) that cannot make a profession that he is a christian ? pag. 31 , 32. he proceeds . arg. 23. the baptized are in scripture called men washed , sanctified , justified ; they are called saints , and churches of saints , 1 cor. 1. 2. all christians are sanctified ones : pag. 33. now let me add the minor. but infants baptized are not in scripture called men washed , sanctified , justified , they are not called saints , churches of saints , christians , nor sanctified ones . ergo , infants ought not to be baptized . if any should say , why did you not cite these assertions of mr. baxter's whilst he was living ? i answer , more then twelve years ago i did recite and print these assertions , and many other arguments of his to the same purpose , to which he gave no answer . arg. 24. if there is but one way for all , both parents and children to be admitted into the gospel-church to the end of the world , and that it is upon the profession of faith to be baptized ; then both parents and children must upon the profession of their faith be baptized , and so admitted , &c. but there is but one way for all , both parents and children , to be admitted into the gospel-church to the end of the world , and that is upon the profession their faith to be baptized . ergo. arg. 25. that cannot be christ's true baptism wherein there is not , cannot be a lively representation of the death , burial and resurrection of jesus christ , together with our death unto sin , and vivification to a new life . but in the rantizing or sprinkling of an infant , there is not , cannot be a lively representation of christ's death , burial and resurrection , &c. ergo. arg. 26. that pretended baptism that tends to frustrate the glorious end and design of christ in his instituting of gospe-baptism , or cannot answer it , is none of christ's baptism . but the pretended baptism of infants tends to frustrate the glorious end and design of christ in instituting of gospel-baptism , ergo. that major will not he denied . as to the minor , all generally confes the end or design of christ in instituting the ordinance of baptism , was in a lively figure , to represent his death , burial , and resurrection , with the person 's death unto sin , and his rising again to walk in newness of life , that is baptized , as the sacrament of the supper was ordained to represent his body was broke , and his blood was shed . but that a lively figure of christ's death , burial , and resurrection , appears in sprinkling a little water on the face , i see not ; and as done to an infant , there can no death to sin , and rising again to walk in newness of life , be signified ; and therefore christ's design and end therein is frustrated . arg. 27. if baptism be immersion , as to the proper and genuine signification of the word baptizo , as also of those typical and metaphorical baptisms and the spiritual signification thereof ; then sprinkling cannot be christ's true baptism . but immersion is the proper and genuine signification of the word baptizo , and also of those typical and metaphorical baptisms spoken of , and the spiritual signification thereof . ergo , sprinkling is not christ's true baptism . 1. that the proper and genuine signification of the word baptizo is immersion , or to dip , &c. we have proved , which is also confessed by the learned in the language . 2. the figurative baptism was , 1st . that of the red sea , wherein the ●●thers were buried , as it were , unto moses in the sea , and under the cloud . pools annotations on 1 cor. 10. 2. others , saith he , more probably think that the apostle useth this term , in regard of the great analogy betwixt baptism ( as it was then used ) the persons going down into the waters , and being dipped in them ; and the israelites going down into the sea , the great receptacle of water , though the water at that time was gathered on heaps on either side of them ; yet they seemed-buried in the water , as persons in that age were when they were baptized , &c. the 2d . was that of noah's ark. see sir norton knatchb●ll : the ark of noah and baptism , saith he , were both a type and figure of the resurrection , not the sign of the washing away of sin , though so taken metonymically , but a particular signal of the resurrection of christ : of this baptism is a lively and emphatical figure , as also was the ark of noah , out of which he returned as from a sepulchre , to a new life . 3. metaphorical baptism is that of the spirit and of affliction : the first signifies not a sprinkling of the spirit , but the great effusion of the spirit , like that at pentecost , acts 1. 4 , 5. shall be baptized , &c. on which words casaubon speaks thus : see dr. d● veil on acts 2. the greek word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is to dip or plunge , as it were to die colours , in which sense , saith he , the apostles might be truly said to have been baptized for the house in which this was done , was filled with the holy ghost ; so that the apostles might seem to have been plunged into it as in a large fish-pond . also 〈◊〉 on acts 2. saith , a wind filled the whole house , that it seemed like a fish-pond , because it was promised to the apostles , that they should be baptized with the holy ghost . and the baptism of afflic●●● are those great depths or overwhelming of afflictions , like that of our saviour's 〈◊〉 , i. e. no part free ; matth. 20. 22. 〈◊〉 you have the same greed word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and like that , of david , who saith , 〈…〉 him out of gr●●t waters . 4. the spiritual signification thereof ●● the death , burial and resurrection of christ and of our death to sin , and vivification 〈◊〉 a new life . this being so , it follows 〈…〉 sprinkling cannot be christ●● true 〈…〉 it must be immersion , and nothing else . and in the last place , finally , to 〈◊〉 that baptizo is to dip , both from the literal 〈◊〉 spiritual signification thereof , as also 〈◊〉 those typical and metaphorical baptism ●●●tioned in the scripture , i might add 〈…〉 that this evidently appears from the 〈…〉 of john baptist and the apostles of 〈◊〉 who baptized in rivers , and where 〈…〉 much water : and also , because the 〈…〉 baptized are said to go down into the w●●●● ( not down to the water ) and came 〈◊〉 of the water . john baptist is said to 〈◊〉 them into jordan , as the greek word 〈◊〉 it , which shews it dipping and not 〈◊〉 . would it be proper to say , he 〈…〉 them into jordan ? the lord open 〈…〉 those who see not , to consider these 〈…〉 finis . a briefe answer to a discourse, lately written by one p.b., to prove baptisme under the defection of antichrist, to be the ordinance of iesus christ, and the baptizing of infants to be agreeable to the word of god wherein is declared ... that true baptisme and a false church are inconsistent, and cannot stand together : and also maintained, that the baptizing of infants hath no authority from the scriptures / by r. barrow. barrow, robert, d. 1697. this text is an enriched version of the tcp digital transcription a31094 of text r12474 in the english short title catalog (wing b967). textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. the text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with morphadorner. the annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. this text has not been fully proofread approx. 61 kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from 13 1-bit group-iv tiff page images. earlyprint project evanston,il, notre dame, in, st. louis, mo 2017 a31094 wing b967 estc r12474 11692397 ocm 11692397 48218 this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons 0 1.0 universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase 1, no. a31094) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set 48218) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, 1641-1700 ; 10:24) a briefe answer to a discourse, lately written by one p.b., to prove baptisme under the defection of antichrist, to be the ordinance of iesus christ, and the baptizing of infants to be agreeable to the word of god wherein is declared ... that true baptisme and a false church are inconsistent, and cannot stand together : and also maintained, that the baptizing of infants hath no authority from the scriptures / by r. barrow. barrow, robert, d. 1697. [6], 18 p. [s.n.], london : 1642. "p.b." is praisegod barbon. reproduction of original in union theological seminary library, new york. eng barbon, praisegod, 1596?-1679. -discourse tending to prove the baptisme in, or under the defection of antichrist to be the ordinance of jesus christ. infant baptism. a31094 r12474 (wing b967). civilwar no a briefe answer to a discourse lately vvritten by one p.b. to prove baptisme under the defection of antichrist, to be the ordinance of iesus barrow, robert 1642 10668 18 0 0 0 0 0 17 c the rate of 17 defects per 10,000 words puts this text in the c category of texts with between 10 and 35 defects per 10,000 words. 2006-04 tcp assigned for keying and markup 2006-07 spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images 2006-09 celeste ng sampled and proofread 2006-09 celeste ng text and markup reviewed and edited 2007-02 pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a briefe answer to a discourse lately written by one p. b. to prove baptisme under the defection of antichrist , to be the ordinance of iesus christ , and the baptizing of infants to be agreeable to the word of god . wherein is declared ( from his owne grounds ) that true baptisme , and a false church are inconsistent , and cannot stand together : and also maintained , that the baptizing of infants hath no authority from the scriptures . the simple beleeveth every word : but the prudent man looketh well to his goings . prov. 14.15 . by r. barrow . london , printed in the yeere , 1642. to the reader . although divers of the learned have declared the baptisme of infants to be but a humane tradition ; as p. b. confesseth in his epistle , page 3. yet notwithstanding , there be many that have , and doe take upon them , to countenance the same by the word of god , wherein they commit a double offence ; one in seducing the people , and leading them to disobedience against christ , mat. 28.19 . mar 16.15 , 16. whom they are to heare in all things , acts 3. the other in taking the word of christ , and putting it as a sword into the hands of men to defend and maintaine themselves in such their disobedience against him ; amongst whom , one p. b. hath lately taken part in publishing a booke to proove the baptisme of infants to be agreeable to the word of god , but ( as many times it falleth out when men undertake to defend an evill cause ) he hath so bewrayed the error of that doctrine , that in the judgement of any , who are but indifferently acquainted with the scriptures , there needs no more be said to discover the falsity thereof , and sinfulnesse of his owne practice in the same things wherein unadvisedly hee accuseth others . one instance j shall give thereby to cause the reader in pursuing his discourse , to take notice therin hee fighteth against himselfe , and in that thing most of all whereupon his whole building standeth , which is the perpetuity of the visible church under the new testament , page 1. and so by consequent of baptisme , whereby the matter of the church is differenced , page 3.4 . wherein hee maketh baptisme to depend upon the church ; whence then it must needs follow , that unlesse hee can finde such a church which hath successively continued from the first planting , untill these dayes , hee cannot assure himsefe that his baptisme received , is the ordinance of christ . but pag. 2.3 . he confesseth that he knoweth not where any such church hath continued , nor doth hee believe that any can be found that can make such a continuance of the church to appeare : therefore hee received not his baptisme from any such church , nor is it then by his owne argument , the baptisme of christ , but a counterfeit , or idoll come out of the bottomelesse pit , as hee himselfe speaketh , page 6. having thus destroyed his foundation , and impeached his owne baptisme , and the baptisme of the church of england , derived from the church of rome , a false state the mother of fornications , &c. as he affirmeth in the 3. page of his epistle to the reader , his whole building must needs fall to the ground , which thing being considered , i know it may be thought , that an answer to such a discourse should be altogether unnecessary ; for hee that impeacheth himselfe , needs no other to accuse him ; yet neverthelesse , hearing that some not well acquainted with the state of this controversie have by his mis-applying the scriptures in the handling of the same , been prejudiced against the truth , by him evill spoken of ; for their sakes therefore is this briefe answer made , wherein not regarding to follow him to and fro , in all his vaine wandering and tautologies ( wherewith his booke is stored ) i have reduced his whole discourse into such particular heads , as doe either concern the perpetuity of the visible church , the baptisme of the church of rome , or the baptisme of infants , &c. which hee undertaketh to prove ; for answer , i have made use of little , save onely what i have found in his owne writing , wherein indeed , is sufficient to discover the vanity of his opinion in these particulars , and to satisfie any that thereby have taken offence againg the truth ; but all that is said , will appeare to thee ( courteous reader ) in the following answer , and therefore i shall referre thee thereunto , and also unto the grace and guidance of christ our redeemer , in whose service i am alwayes thine , r. barrovv . a breife ansvver to a discourse , lately written by one p. b. &c. first , he saith , that the visible church of christ hath had a perpetuall continuance in the world from the first plantation thereof by christ and the apostles , and shall so continue unto the end of the world ; this he saith was prophesied , esa. 9.7.59.21 . witnessed , luke 1.33 . acts 5.29 . and confirmed , matth. 16.18.28.20 . and these scriptures are stable and true , and so to be accounted by all the saints , page 1. i answer , that these scriptures , and all other , being delivered by the spirit of god , 2 pet. 1.21 . are stable and true , and so to be accounted of all the world , acts 3.22.23 . and yet are not therefore the severall glosses and understandings of men given upon these or other scriptures alwayes stable and true , nor so to be accounted of any man . before wee give credit therefore to his construction of these scriptures ; wee will a little examine how he makes the truth thereof to appeare : he saith , that the perpetuity of the visible church was prophesied , esay 9.7.59.21 . and the word is yea and amen , &c. whereupon then it must needs follow , that if the visible church of christ hath not had a perpetuall uninterrupted succession in the world ever since the first plantation thereof , untill these dayes , though this prophesie in it selfe be true , yet his understanding and interpretation thereof must needs be false . this rule the lord himselfe hath given us , thereby to distinguish the true prophet from the false , deutron . 18.22 . hee saith , when a prophet speaketh in the name of the lord , and if the thing follow not , nor come to passe , that is , not the thing which the lord hath spoken , but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously . now , as hereby wee are taught to distinguish the true prophets from the false , so likewise are wee by the same rule taught , to know the true interpretation of every prophesie from the false , and therefore when any interpretation of any prophesie is given , and accordingly the thing follow not nor come to passe that is , not the thing which the lord hath spoken in that prophesie , but it 's a false interpretation , and he is a false prophet that hath given the same , of whom wee are taught to beware , matth. 7.15 . from which imputation , we shall now see how well he acquitteth himselfe . first , he telleth us , that the defection and falling away under antichrist was very generall and marvellous universall ; and this he proveth , rev. 13.8 , 16. ( to which also he might have added the 3.4 . and 7. verses ) and unlesse the defection under antichrist had beene thus universall , he saith the waldenses , who appeared in the dawne of the day , could not truly have beene called the first fruits unto god , as he conceiveth they were , pag. 2. we say so too , and also firme that the visible church could not continue under that defection , because it 's said , it was given to him to make warre with the saints , and to overcome them , and if to overcome them , they could not continue , for if they had not continued , then he did not overcome them and kill them with the sword , as it is said hee did , rev. 13.7.10 . compared with dan. 7.21.25 . moreover , it is said , that those which worshipped the beast , were such , whose names were not written in the lambs booke of life ; therefore the visible church could not continue under that defection . but if it did not there continue , yet haply it might continue under the greekes ? to this he answereth , that indeed the greekes did not alwayes subject themselves to the romane power , yet were they very little short in defection , in so much , that according to the measure whereby the romanists are measured , they will stand and fall together ; well but i demand ( although the church did not continue under the defection of antichrist , nor yet under the greekes ) whether he doe not conceive that some man may be found able ( though hee cannot himselfe ) to make it appeare that the the visible church hath continued elsewhere in the world ? vnto this he answereth , that he believeth none can be found able to make any such continuance of the church to appeare , page 3. if any could , he would thanke god for such a discovery . and who then can believe his exposition of esay 9.7.59.21 . &c. seeing that his owne mouth testifieth that no man can be found able to make the truth thereof to appeare ; and therefore it must needs follow , that he hath given a false interpretation of the scriptures by him alledged to prove the perpetuity of the visible church ; neither will he himselfe , nor any other ▪ be able to cleare him from the imputation of a false prophet , and one that hath spoken presumptuously in the name of the lord , deut. 18.22 . therefore having thus confuted himselfe in this point , i thinke it a needlesse thing for mee to spend any more time in the confutation of it . but seeing hee confesseth that none can be found able to make any such continuance of a visible church ( as he speaketh of ) to appeare , why are we by him blamed for not believing such a continuance , page 4. and why are we so often charged for not believing the continuance thereof under the defection of antichrist , pag. 3.4.5 . and 9. and why also are we accused for making christ a widower , in not believing a perpetuall succession of the visible church of christ , seeing he himselfe believeth no man can prove the perpetuall succession thereof ? what , would he have us believe that which he cannot believe himselfe ? herein hee is much more uncharitable then the pope ; who requireth none to believe what hee and his church believeth not . if christ must be a widower , except he hath alwayes a visible church in the world , then there is no salvation out of the visible church , because none can be saved which are not first united to , and made one with christ , ( and then what shall become of those believers which in all ages have appeared , such as ierome of prague , iohn hus , &c. who lost their lives for the testimonie of jesus , and were never members of any true visible church : i hope p. b. will not say that they perished in their sins ) and if they were saved , then were they espoused unto and united to christ ; and if so , then christ hath , and so may have a spouse , although no visible church , but p.b. i conceive , was so studious when he wrote his booke , to bring absurdities upon us , that he altogether forgot himselfe . furthermore , seeing hee cannot believe that any can be found able to make the continuance of the visible church to appeare , and that as hee saith , the administration of baptisme doth so depend thereupon , that by no meanes possible it can be had elsewhere , without a speciall commission given from heaven for that purpose , such as iohn the baptist had , page 4. & 6. i demand where , or of whom p. b. received his baptisme : from the visible church he received it not , for he knoweth not where any such church is , neither doth hee believe that any man can make any such church to appeare to have continued in the world , if any could , he would blesse god for such a discovery , page 3. & 4. belike then hee received it from one that had a speciall commission like to that of iohn the baptists , at least by his discourse he would have us to thinke so , but i know it will appeare that it was but a bull . but being unwilling to receive this confutation from himselfe , or having begun a discourse , so quickly to finish it , hee proceeds , and tells us , that seeing he believes that none can make it appeare that the visible church hath continued from under the defection of antichrist , then it is more then probable , that it hath continued under that defection , page 3. but i demand how that can be probable , seeing that but a little before he told us , and also proved , that the defection and falling away under antichrist , was very great , and marvellous universall , and therefore were the waldenses , who appeared in the dawning of the day , not unfitly called the first fruits unto god ; for they could not be the first , if there had beene a continuance , page 2. but he saith , 2 thes. 2.4 . it is said , that the sonne of perdition who exalteth himselfe above all that is called god ; or that is worshipped , sitteth in the temple of god , shewing himselfe that he is god , and therefore the church hath continued under the defection of antichrist , what is this , but i sir , no sir . but i answer , that the temple here spoken of , wherein the man of sinne sitteth , and is worshipped , cannot be taken to be the church of god , or that temple of the living god . whereof iesus christ is the head , ephes. 1.22 and wherein god himselfe dwelleth and walketh , 2 cor. 6.16.17 . the reason is , because that in 3. verse of this chapter it is said , that the man of sinne is not revealed untill first there be a falling away , and therefore his comming is said , verses 9. & 10. to be withall deceivablenesse ; in whom ? ( not in the church , but in them that perish , who , because they received not the love of the truth , that they might be saved , therefore god sent them strong delusions , that they should believe lies , that all they might perish , who received not the truth , but had pleasure in unrighteousnesse verse 9.10.11.12 . whereupon it must needs follow , that that temple or societie wherein antichrist sitteth and is worshipped ; consisteth of persons departed from the faith , verse 3. who are by god justly for that cause given up to believe lies , that so they may perish and be damned ; and therefore not in any wise to be esteemed the church of christ , or temple of the living god . and this must needs be so from his owne ground , seeing that by antichrist here spoken of , he understandeth the beast mentioned , rev. 13. as apeareth by his applying this scripture against antichrist , pag. 2. now , for as much as those that wonder after the beast , and worship him , are said to be such , whose names are not written in the lambs book of life , rev. 13.8 he cannot therfore understand the same to be the temple of god , where antichrist sitteth and is worshipped ( unlesse he conceive that the church of christ consisteth of such persons , whose names are not written in the booke of life , which i suppose hee doth not ) and therefore i conclude from his own grounds , that the temple spoken of in the 2 thes. 2.4 . is no more the temple of god , then antichrist , who sitteth therein , and is worshipped , is god himselfe , nor is otherwise to be esteemed , nor hath hee any reason more to affirme the one , then he hath to affirme the other ; from hence therefore it cannot be made to appeare probable that the visible church hath continued under the defection of antichrist , but it must stand as p. b. at first affirmed , page 2. that under the defection of antichrist it could not continue . but suppose it were probable , that the church had continued under that defection , then he saith pag. 3. that baptisme by which the matter of the church is differenced , hath there likewise continued , and there also it will be probable , that his baptisme derived from thence is the baptisme of iesus christ . ( here we may take notice by way ) that the best ground he hath for his faith in this particular , is but a probability : well , but seeing that he holdeth that baptisme dependeth upon the true church , then where no true church is there can be no true baptisme . now , i need not here demand whether conceives the church of rome to be a true church , because in his epistle to the reader , page 5. he desireth that none should thinke so of him , for there he saith , that he holds that state to be the mother of fornications , the great whore , sodome and egypt , &c. therfore it must needs hence follow , that the church of rome hath not christs baptisme ; for thus he reasoneth , if the church hath continued , then baptisme by which the matter of the church is differenced hath continued , page 3. but the church of rome hath not continued the church of christ , but is become the mother of fornications sodome and egypt , as he faith in his epistle , page 5. therefore the baptisme of christ by which the matter of the church is differenced , hath not continued in the church of rome ; whereas therefore , page 5. hee desireth those which hold that the church and baptisme hath not continued under the defection of antichrist would shew him the error and absurdity of such an opinion ; he may easily discover the error and absurdity hereof himselfe , if he will but take notice of what hee hath herein written , viz. that baptisme differenceth the true matter of the church from the false , pag. 3.4 . whence it will necessarily follow , that if the baptisme of the church of rome be the baptisme of christ which differenceth the true matter of the church from the false , then rome the false matter must thereby be differenced from it selfe , and become a true church ; as when at first shee received christs baptisme , and then shall rome be no longer rome , but a true church and state , differenced from a false by her baptisme which differenceth the true matter from the false ; and therefore for any to hold the church of rome to be a false church , as p. b. doth , and withall to maintaine that she retaineth the baptisme of christ , whereby the true matter of the church is differenced from the false , is as much as if a man should affirme even as he doth , that rome is the mother of fornications , and also that rome is the true spouse of iesus christ , which is both absurd and contradictory . i will therefore conclude this point thus , seeing that true baptisme differenceth the true matter of the church from the false , as p.b. saith , and yet the baptisme of the church of rome doth not difference her from the false matter , as he also affirmeth in his epistle , page 5. therefore the baptisme of the church of rome is not that baptisme of christ , which differenceth the true matter from the false , page 3.4 . secondly , that church which hath no other baptisme then the baptisme of rome , which differenceth not the true matter from the false , cannot thereby be differenced from the false church ; but p.b. and his church have no other baptisme then the baptisme of the church of rome which differenceth not the true matter from the false , therfore , p. b. and his church , are not yet differenced from the false church . whether therefore christ will owne the same for his spouse , or reject her as a harlot sprung from the mother of fornications and harlos , may very well be a question without question . but he saith , page 6. if the visible church hath not continued , then baptisme is ceased , and being ceased without a speciall commission , such as iohn the baptist had at first to baptize , it can never be againe obtained . to this i answer , that although baptisme were ceased , as hee intends it , viz. that there were no baptized persons in the world to be found , yet so long as baptisme the ordinance of god is found in the word , with a commission serving to the end of the world for believers or disciples to make and baptise disciples , as mat. 28.19.20 . baptisme may be againe obtained without any such speciall commission as that which at first was given to iohn the baptist ; for it will not follow , that because iohn the baptist might not baptise before baptisme was instituted & he commanded to baptise , that therefore believers after baptisme is instituted and commanded to make and baptise disciples may not lawfully baptise such as are made disciples , no more then it will follow , that because abraham might not circumcise himselfe and his males , before circumcision was instituted , and he commanded so to doe ; that therefore the israelites after circumcision was instituted , and they commanded to observe the same , might not , without a speciall commission , such as abraham had , lawfully circumcise their males . it was necessary indeed , that iohn the baptist should have a speciall commission to baptise , baptisme being not before instituted nor yet he , nor any other person required to baptise ; as it was necessary to the first building of the temple , that a patterne should be given , chron. 28.11.12 . but as then another patterne was not expected as necessary for the rebuilding therof at the peoples returne out of captivity , who performed all things according to the first appointment and ordination , ezra 3. so neither is it requisite , now baptisme being ceased , that a new commission should be obtained for the raising of it up againe . but that according to their example in the former instance all be done according to the first institution and ordination of jesus christ , mat. 28.19 . if it be objected as in page 8. that the commission was given to baptised persons , such as had received their baptisme from iohn , and therefore it intendeth none that are unbaptised ; i answer , that this commission requireth all such persons , who by the preaching of the gospell , either are or shall be made disciples unto the end of the world to be baptised , and christs voyce must be obeyed in all things whatsoever he saith , act. 3.22 . and that without delay , as acts. 22.16 . therefore there lies a necessity upon all believers to be baptised . what is now to be done in this case ? baptised persons from whom they may receive the same as in a right line , p. b. believeth none can be found , pag. 2.3 . for if none can make it appeare that the visible church hath continued , as he believeth none can , then can none make it appear that there are any baptised persons to be found in the world , and therfore ought cannot be had from any such , how then ? why in the 2 tim. 2.16 . & 17. the apostle telleth us ; that the scripture is profitable , and serveth for instruction in all righteousnesse , that the man of god may be perfect and throughly furnished unto all good workes , and if unto all , then unto this of baptisme ; whereupon therefore i confidently affirme , that as at first , iohn the baptist , at the command of god baptised others , though he himselfe was unbaptised : even so now ( according to his example ( which amongst other things was written for our learning , that we thereby might be taught what to doe in the like case of necessity ) rom. 15.4 . may a disciple at the command of jesus christ , matth. 28.19 . having made disciples by the preaching of the gospel baptise them for the remission of their sins . act. 2.38 . if it further be objected , that this example is extraordinary , and therefore not exemplary ; i answer , that every approved example , though extraordinary , serveth for our instruction and direction in the like extraordinary case ; and this is warranted by christs owne testimony , matth. 12.3.4 . where he declareth , that although in ordinary cases it was unlawfull for any to eate the shew bread , save onely the priest , yet in case of necessity it was lawfull and warrantable , both for david , and also for souldiers to eate thereof , whereby he justifieth his disciples , who in the like case of necessity , were enforced to doe that which otherwise was not lawfull to be done on the sabbath day . this is our case , and hereby wee justifie our practice in the point in hand , and by all which it doth appeare , that although baptisme were ceased in that sense wherein he speaketh , yet seeing that that there is a commission already given for baptisme , which by christ himselfe is extended to the end of the world , there is no need of a new commission for the raising of it up againe ; and therefore , from that which p. b. speaketh concerning nadab and abihu , their offering of strange fire , which the lord commanded not lev. 10. hee might more fitly have applyed against his strange baptisme , viz. the baptisme of infants , of which the lord hath never spoken , then against the baptising of believers at his command , and according to his owne institution , matth. 28.19 . but for want of better matter to fill up his booke , he was , it seemes , inforced to make use of vaine words . but this is not all for although it be proved that there is commission and authority for disciples to baptise , though they themselves be unbaptised in the case before declared ; yet there is another thing whereat p. b. is greatly offended , and that is the manner in which this new baptisme ( as he calleth it ) is administred ( which according to the institution ) is by dipping the whole man in water or burying the whole man under the water , col. 2.12 . rom. 6. this although the lord command the same , mat. 28.19 . and examples both of christ himselfe , mar. 1.9 . mat. 3.16 . iohn the baptist , ioh. 3.23 . philip and the eunuch , act. 8.38.39 . all of them giving witnesse therunto , yet he cannot believe it to be so necessary , as that a person who is onely sprinkled with water , should be esteemed unbaptised , p. 12. but what are his reasons that perswade him thus to judge ? he saith , at the most , sprinkling can be but a defect in the quantity of the element , and it 's wonderfull that a nullity should follow thereupon . i answer , that it 's wonderfull that any should esteeme that to be an ordinance of christ , which christ hath never ordained ; but christ never ordained sprinkling for his baptising but dipping mat. 28.19 . therefore sprinkling is none of christs ordinance and so by consequence must needs be a nullity ; but he saith , by thus urging the text , we place the substance of an ordinance in the criticknesse of a word , page 13. i answer , that we doe place the substance of every ordinance in it's conformity to the word of god , which alone giveth being thereunto , and for any to doe otherwise , it is very strange : but belike , he that by the word baptise will not understand to sprinkle , and accept the same for christs ordinance in baptisme , which is as much as if by the word ( circumcise ) the iewes should have understood to prick the finger ▪ & should so have practised and owned the same for the ordinance of circumcision in the judgement of p.b. he is a meere criticke , and placeth the substance of an ordinance of a high nature in the criticknesse of a word , as he speaketh . and whereas it is said that baptisme resembleth our buriall and resurrection with christ , which sprinkling cannot import , rom 6. col. 2.12 he answereth , that sprinkling or powring water on the face doth hold forth both buriall and resurrection , page 14. for those ( he saith ) that are sprinkled are under the water and buried , if not so , then he demandeth how they were baptised unto moses in the cloud ▪ and in the sea , when not so much as a hayre of their head was wet . i answer , that by this reason as they should not be dipped in baptisme , so neither should they be sprinkled , and yet shall they be under the water , and buried neverthelesse ; this sure is one of the mysteries which hee speaketh of , that cannot easily be perceived , page 10. but seeing he thus urgeth the baptisme of the cloud and of the sea in this and divers other places desiring that it may be well minded , as page 14.29.30 . i desire to know , whether thereby he understandeth the baptisme instituted by jesus christ , mat. 28.9 . if he doe not , then i demand , why he so often urgeth the same for an example in this point ? if he doe , then further demand why contrary thereunto in baptising his infants ( as hee would have it esteemed ) he sprinkleth water in their faces ? this practice of his to sprinkle water in the face , if persons may be baptised without water , must needs be a point of voluntary religion , as he speaketh of the surplise , and baptised garments , page 15. and hereby any may see how pertinently he allegeth the scripture . but he saith , that whilest we thus urge baptisme to hold forth buriall and resurrection ▪ we lose that which it holdeth forth equally therewith ( namely ) the sprinkling of the conscience in the blood of christ . esay . 52.15 . heb. 10.22 . ezek. 36.25 . heb. 12.24 . and the laver of regeneration and our washing in the blood of christ , that blessed fountaine , acts 22.16 . heb. 10.22 . 1 cor. 6.11 . rev. 1.5 . to which i answer , and deny that sprinkling in the blood of christ is required to be holden forth in baptisme , or that any of the scriptures by him aledged , doe prove any such thing , or make any mention at all of baptisme , and therefore are not to be applied thereunto being onely metaphors borrowed from those sprinklings used under the law , heb. 10.19.20.21 , 22. which , although the matter thereof might or did set forth the blood of christ , and the nature of it , being applied by faith , as 1 iohn 1.7 . yet did not the same at all set forth the manner of baptisme , which onely is to be found in the institution , matth. 28.19 . and those examples which the scripture affordeth us thereof , marke 1.9 . matth. 3.16 . acts 8.38.39 . together with that conformity and agreement with it , hath with death , buriall and resurrection whereunto the lord is pleased to resemble and compare the same , rom. 6.4 . 1 cor. 15.29 . col. 2.12 . and hee that shall affirme that that act of sprinkling , used under the law , is to be observed in baptisme , because the matter thereof did set forth the blood of christ , the matter of our cleansing may by as good reason maintaine that all those particular actions required to be used under the law for the cleansing of the leaper ( namely ) the applying of the blood of his sacrifice to the thumbe of his right hand , to the tip of his right care , and to the great toe of his right foot , ought also to be observed in baptisme , seeing , that the matter thereof pointed out the blood of christ as well as that did , which was used in sprinkling then which nothing more absurd can be imagined . as concerning our washing in the blood of christ , that blessed fountaine , the other particular in which he instanceth , and saith , that we lose by urging baptisme , to hold forth buriall and resurrection . i answer , that he is much mistaken therein ; for as dipping in the judgement of the spirit of god is washing , 2 king. 5.14 . compared with 10. so likewise unto washing by dipping is necessarily required much water , as is seene , iohn 3.23 . whereupon it doth follow , that like as dipping of the whole man in water , and his rising againe forth of the same , doth lively hold forth and represent his death , buriall and resurrection with christ , according to rom. 6.3.4.5 . col. 2.12 . so likewise his dipping or washing in much water , must needes be a full resemblance of his washing in that blessed fountaine , the blood of christ , set open to wash in for sinne and for uncleannesse , zach. 13.1 . we therefore by urging baptisme to hold forth buriall and resurrection , lose not that which ought equally to be holden forth therewith ( namely ) our washing in the blood of christ , &c. but p. b. himselfe , who for baptisme useth sprinkling , loseth both buriall and resurrection , and that which ought equally to be holden forth with them both also , to wit , our washing in the fountaine of the blood of christ , for that sprinkling hath neither similitude , nor any proportion with any of them . but he saith that a thing that is dipped in water , is not therefore washed and made cleane ; to which i answer , that then much lesse is that which is onely sprinkled with water therefore washed and made cleane , but i have proved before that dipping is washing , and therefore he that is dipped , is washed , and consequently made cleane so farre forth as the ordinance of baptisme doth require , that alone serving fully to demonstrate our death , buriall , resurrection with christ , and the washing away and cleansing us from all filthinesse in the fountaine of his blood zach. 13 1. yet this will not suffice , therefore he further urgeth , that in those countries where baptisme first begun , they dipped often , and also rubbed thereby to cleanse pag. 14. i answer that they dipped in those countries , where baptisme first began , is most certaine , and accordingly do we practise ; and when p. b. can prove that they dipped often , &c. and also justifie their practice by the word of god , wee shall therein also follow their example . but seeing that he conceiveth they dipped , and not onely so but also dipped often , &c. why then doth he accuse us ▪ who dip but once , as though that were too often ? and moreover if they used to dip where baptisme first began , then is dipping the old , and so consequently the good way , ier. 6.16 . and why then doth he reproach the same as a new way , pag. 3. and doth not rather , as he would teach his reader in the frontice-piece of his booke , walke in the old and good way , that he may finde rest ? ier. 6.16 . but it appeares that he loves to wrangle , and therefore , now contrary to dipping often , and rubbing to cleanse , he saith , that a little water serveth to set forth our washing in the blood of christ intended in baptisme as well as a great deale , and the washing of a part , as the face , according to the present custome as well as washing of the whole man as appeareth by christs washing of peters feet , iohn 13.10 . i answer , that a little water serveth not so fully to set out our washing in the blood of christ as a great deale doth , and therefore , when the lord himselfe would set forth this thing unto us , he doth it not under the resemblance of a little water , but of a fountaine of water , zach. 13.1 . and hence it was , that his messenger baptised in much water , iohn 3.23 . neither doth the washing of a part set forth the cleansing of us from all filthinesse . 2 cor. 7.1 . like as the washing of the whole man doth , and therefore , that we might draw neere in full assurance it 's required ( not our faces or feet ) but that our bodies should be washed in pure waters , heb. 10.22 . christs washing of peters feet he applyeth that as well as he doth the baptisme of the cloud and of the sea , and therefore , as i answered him in that , so i shall also in this ; if hee conceive that christ by washing of peters feet would set forth unto us the manner of baptisme . i demand then , why contrary thereunto , he useth to sprinkle his infants faces , when he christeneth them ? and why he doth not rather in a bason of water wash their feet ? i suppose therefore , that he knoweth well enough , that christ by washing of peters feet , would teach all his disciples humility , iohn 13.15 . and not to wash a part in baptisme contrary to his owne institution , matth. 28.19 . and example marke 1.9 . mat. 3.16 . but his great objection against the dipping of the whole man , is this ( he saith ) that it 's hard to determine how it can stand with modesty and shamefastnesse , and yet in the countries where baptisme first began , hee urgeth against us , that they dipped often , and also rubbed , thereby to cleanse , page 14. now , if he cannot determine how dipping once may be performed with modesty , &c. how will he determine how dipping often , and rubbing to cleanse ( as he instanceth ) could be performed with modesty and shamefastnesse ? surely he will conclude that they put on a linnen garment . but there it will follow , that they baptise the garments , &c. haply he will say not the garments but the persons in the garment , because that when he sprinkleth his infants he doth not strip them naked out of their clothes ; neither yet will he say , that therefore he baptiseth their garments into the death and resurrection of christ , but the infant that are therein . but if it must needs follow that they baptise the garments , &c. ( in their behalfe , i know though not in ours ) he will determine , that it was but an error in respect of the subject , like to the baptisme of an infant in the stead of a believer ( as he pleadeth , page 12. ) and therefore not worthy to be blamed or taken notice of . having thus spoken his minde against the ordinance of christ ( to wit ) the baptising or dipping of believers ▪ which in derision he calleth the new baptisme , page 3. hee returnes againe to the former argument the baptisme of infants , page 10. which , hee saith began many yeeres before christ died , or at least , before the apostles left the world , which indeed , must needs be true , if it be the baptisme which was instituted by iesus christ , as hee pretends to prove by these reasons that follow . his first ground is from the covenant of god made with abraham , gen. 17. which covenant , he saith was neither part of the new , nor yet of the old , chap. 17.18 . because it was neither confirmed with the blood of bulls , nor with the blood of christ ▪ which thing he saith , may seeme new , but yet he desires to see the error that attends its . i answer , marvelling that he should urge infants , being in a covenant not confirmed with the blood of christ , to prove their interest in baptisme , and so by consequent in the blood of christ ; the blood of christ is the blood of the new testament , mat. 26.28 . now , if that infants be not in this covenant confirmed with the blood of christ , then can they have no interest in baptisme which serveth ( as he saith page 14. ) to set forth our washing and sprinkling with the blood of christ ; there needs not therefore any more words be used to shew the errour that attends this new conceit urged to prove infants right to baptisme , when it not onely excludes them from baptisme , but also from salvation by christ . but infants being a part of the church and members thereof before christ , what doth let them from being so still ? seeing ( as hee saith ) the lord hath never spoken one word thereof , but the contrary . i answer , that although infants were of the church before christ yet the lord hath manifestly declared , that they should not be so now , christ the true promised seed being once come , as is seene , gal. 4.22 . &c. where the apostle thus speaketh . it is written ( saith hee ) that abraham had two sonnes , the one by a bond-maid , the other by a free woman , 23. but he that was borne of the bond-woman was borne ●fter the flesh , but hee of the free woman was borne by promise , 24. which things he saith , was an allegorie , verse 25.26 . the bond maid hagar shadowing out the old covenant or testament and her sonne ishmael which she bore to abraham after the flesh , or by carnall generation , shadowing out all the fleshly and carnall israelites which should proceed from abraham in after generations . the free woman , sara , pointing out the new covenant or ierusalem , which is from above and teaches her son appointing out christ , the promised seed as gal. 3.16 . and believers borne from above ▪ or by promise , as isack was the spirituall seed of abraham , as gal. 3.29 . and therefore he saith verse 28. we brethren , as isacke was , are the children of promise ; after this , to close up the full intent of the spirit of god in this thing , in the 29. & 30. verses , he sheweth that by the carnall and fleshly seed ishmael ▪ his persecuting of him which was borne by the promise ( to wit isaack ) whereupon hee and his mother , was by the command of god , both of them together , cast out of abrahams house , the church , gen. 21.10 . thereby was foreshowne , that when christ the true isaack should be borne , gal. 3.16 . and the barren woman the new covenant or gospell , should bring forth and beare sons unto god ( as verse 27. ) then should the bond woman , the old and carnall covenant , with all the carnall ordinances thereof . heb. 9.10 . together all her sonnes , the carnall and the fleshly seed be cast out of the house ( so saith the text , verse 30. ) cast out the bond woman and her sonne ; for the sonne of the bond woman shall not be heire with the sonne of the free woman , ioh. 7.35.26 . and therefore , although children carnally begotten were admitted members of the church before christ , yet are they not so now , but are with their mother the old and carnall covenant , with all the appurtenances thereof ▪ are to be rejected ( as was said before ) and so also is p. b. his exposition of this script ▪ page 22. which by the sonnes of the bond woman onely noteth such who have actually refused and rejected grace , as ioh. 7.35.36 . and thereby became bound ( as though by nature , before they had rejected grace , they had been free ) which is a manifest contradiction to the apostle , who by the children of the bond woman understandeth all that are borne , as ishmael was by fleshly generation , or all those who are not as isaake , who was by promise ( as before ) col. 4.27.28 . with 3 29. his next ground to prove the baptisme of infants is this , because the apostle exhorteth parents to bring up their children in admonition of the lord , therefore they were of the church , and so by consequent were baptised ; but how doth hee prove that they were of the church ? thus ▪ because the apostle , who had nothing to doe with those who are without , 1 cor. 5. exhorts their parents to bring them up in the admonition of the lord . to this i answer , that the apostle did not write this exhortation to the children who were without , but to their parents who were within ; besides where the apostle saith , that hee hath nothing to doe with those that are without , 1 cor. 5.12 . it 's manifest , that hee doth not meane that he hath nothing to doe to exhort those that are without , to know and feare the lord ; for hee was sent to preach the gospell to those that were without , that thereby they might be brought within , act. 26.17.18 . and hee acknowledgeth himselfe a debtor to all men to the unwise as well as to the wise rom. 1.14 , when he saith , therefore that hee hath nothing to doe with those that are without , his meaning is , that he hath nothing to doe to censure and deale with them that are without , for their evills of incest , whoredomes , thefts , &c. he was not by christ made a judge over men in those matters , 1 cor. 5.12.13 . no more then christ himselfe was , luke 12.14 . from this reason of his to prove infants to be of the church , and therefore baptised , ( viz. ) because the apostle exhorts their parents to bring them up in the nurture of the lord ▪ &c. it will follow , that because the apostle peter exhorts believing wives to be in subjection to their husbands , that so ( although by the word they could not , yet ) by their good conversation they might be won ▪ 1 pet. 3.1.2 . that therefore their unbelieving husbands were of the church , and baptised , or else the apostle medled with those with whom he had nothing to doe . but he saith , it 's an uncomfortable doctrine to hold that children are not of the church ; for if they are not borne members of the church , then they are brought forth children to the divell , pag. 25. i answer , that by nature we are all alike the children of wrath , ephes. 2.3 . our being of the church depending upon our new birth and generation , iohn 3.3 . and if all that were not borne members of the church shall be damned , then by p. b. his judgement , seeing hee cannot prove any true visible church to be in the world , page 3. ( and therefore no children to be borne in church ) there shall none at all be saved . is not this doctrine of his a very comfortable doctrine , for else what end doth he conceive was the preaching of the gospell ordained ? matth. 28.19 . acts 26.18 . he hath yet another argument which must needs be answered , for in it there is great confidence placed , and it 's this , the children of believers are holy and therefore may be baptised , 1 cor. 7.14 . to which i answer ▪ that the apostle doth not say , that the children of believers are holy , but he saith , that the unbelieving wife is sanctified to the believing husband , ( that is ) lawfull for his use so that he may lawfully abide with her , and needs not for her unbeliefe sake put her away , ( as was scrupled , verse 10.11 , 12. ) or else , if that shee were not , then the children which he should beget of her were uncleane or unholy , whereas being sanctified , or lawfull to his use , they are cleane , or holy ( that is , legitimate ) for the holinesse of the children here spoken of , is not concluded from the faith of parent , but from the lawfull use which the believing husband hath of his unbelieving wife ; for so are the words , the unbelieving husband is sanctified by , or to the believing wife , and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by , or to the believing husband , or else were your children uncleane , but now are they holy . this scripture therfore proves no more holinesse in the children of believers then in the children lawfully he gotten in the honourable estate of marriage by unbelievers , hebr. 13.4 . and so by consequence yeeldeth no better warrant for the baptising of the one , then it doth for the baptising of the other ; but i intend brevity , and therefore for further answer in this point , i referre him to a. r. his booke lately printed , wherein the same is handled at large . these are the best reasons that p. b. can shew to prove the baptisme of infants to be according to the word of god , which in regard they cannot give satisfaction to some , but they still notwithstanding doe sticke at the mater , ( as they well may ) and desire a precept , or an example to warrant the same , and therefore he promiseth to shew both , page 29. but first hee desireth that wee would give him an example of an unbaptised persons his baptising of others , and of the refusing of infants from being of the church both which being before sufficiently declared , we will now take notice how he performeth his promise : first he saith , there are examples of baptising of housholds , as the iaylers and lydias , acts 16. and the house of stephanus , and questionlesse divers others , pag. 29. but i demand an example for the baptising of infants , and not of baptising housholds of believers , such as the iaylors , act. 16.34 . and stephanus . 1 cor. 16.16 . and crispus , acts 18.8 . and questionlesse divers others . this is a bad example , ( for an example he will have it called though it be none at all ) to prove that the baptisme of infants which must be thus declared : housholds were baptised , but in some housholds there are infants , therefore infan●s have been baptised . this is as plaine an example to prove the baptisme of infants , as this that followeth is to prove the baptising of notorious drunkards swearers , thieves , murtherers , &c. whole housholds have beene baptised , but in some houses there are notorious drunkards , swearers , thieves , murtherers , &c. therfore the apostles baptised such , and such may be baptised . who seeth not your folly ? another example as plaine as this followeth , the whole church of colosse were buried with christ in baptisme , but children were a part of the church , therefore infants were baptised , col. 3.20.21 . i answer , that the whole church of colosse were buried with christ in baptisme , and that there were children in that church to whom the apostle wrote and exhorted to obey their parents in all things , col. 3.20 . but our question is about infants , and not children in generall , some wherof are grown to yeers of understanding , as these were to whom the apostle wrote : for sure p. b. will not say he wrote to infants , which could not understand what he saith . in gen. 43.14 . when iacob sent his sonne benjamine into egypt , he useth these words concerning him and ioseph : if i am bereaved of my children , i am bereaved . now , by his reason , benjamine , who was about seventeene yeeres old , and ioseph , who was about thirty yeeres of age , should both of them be infants because their father called them children ; these examples will yeeld as little satisfaction to any that question the baptising of infants , as his reasons before answered . but although these examples faile , yet page 31. he saith , there is a plaine command of iesus christ for the baptising of infants ; and it appeareth thus , many nations appeare to be abrahams , and to have him for their father ; now , all these nations in which there must needs be some children , by the expresse command of iesus christ , mat. 28.19 . are to be baptised . i answer , abraham was to be a father of many nations , some whereof were his naturall and carnall seed , borne after the flesh , as ishmael and the iewes , who for unbeliefe , were rejected , and cast off , with the old and carnall covenant or testament , as was shewed before ; others were so to be reputed in respect of their faith , and walking in his steps , as it is written , rom. 4.11.12 . where it is said , that he received the signe of circumcision , the seale of righteousnesse of faith , which he had before he was circumcised , that hee might be the father , marke of whom ( viz , ) of all them that believe and walke in the steps of that faith , which he had before he was circumcised , according to which therefore it is said , gal. 3.29 . if yee be christs , then are yee abrahams seed and heires , according to promise . these later , his spirituall seed by the expresse command of iesus christ , mat. 28.19 . are to be baptised , goe yee ( saith he ) and make disciples , or believers all nations , and baptise them , and he that believeth ( as abraham the father of all that believe did , rom. 4.11 . gal. 3.29 . and is baptised , shall be saved marke 16.15 . but what is all this to prove the baptisme of infants which believe not , and therefore are none of abrahams seed , who onely are to be baptised ? no more then that which followeth which is nothing at all ; being the same in effect with this . the nations that are made abrahams seed , the nations that are saved , the kingdomes which shall become the kingdomes of our lord must needs receive christs badge . this is granted , but proveth nothing lesse then the baptising of infants , seeing none are made abrahams seed but those which are first made christs , gal. 3.29 . that wake in his steps , rom. 4.12 . and doe his workes , iohn 8.36 . neither doe any kingdomes become the kingdomes of the lord , but those that feare and serve him , that kisse the sonne , psal. 1.10.11.12 . heare his voyce , acts 3.22.23 . and have him to raigne over him , luke 19 27. nor doth the scripture declare the salvation of any more then those onely which believe , he that believeth on the sonne , hath everlasting life , but hee that believeth not shall not see life , but the wrath of god abideth on him , iohn 3.36 . therefore in refusing to baptise infants who believe not , we curtaile not the nation that are made abrahams seed , &c. i should have thought ( but that he denyeth a nationall church , page 39. ) that he would have all nations of people to be baptised , but seeing hee denyeth the former , i cannot charge him with the later but by this that is said , it appeareth how hee hath proved the baptisme of infants from matth. 28.19 . and other his instances then which nothing could possibly be alledged more opposite thereunto , but herein hee doth not seeme strange to mee , finding his whole discourse not onely ( weake , emptie and impertinent ) but so repugnant and contradictions to it selfe ; so that a man in the reading thereof ▪ may very well judge , that he wrote the same intending to desert and render the cause evil and naught which he pretendeth to maintaine , or else desiring to obtaine to himselfe a name amongst those vaine janglers , mentioned 1 tim. 6 who desire to be teachers , when they neither know what they say , nor whereof they affirme , verse 7. and so i leave him and the consideration of that which is said to those for whose sakes it was first intended , desiring that it may accomplish it's proposed end . col. 2.8 . beware lest any man spoyle you through philosophy and vaine deceit , after the traditions of men , after the rudiments of the world , and not after christ . jerem. 10.3 . the customes of the people are vaine . 2 thes. 2.15 . therefore brethren , stand fast , and hold the traditions which yee have beene taught , whether by word , or our epistle . finis . page . line . scapes . correction . 2 15 for firme , affirme . 2 18 for had not continued , had continued . 5 9 for there also it will , then also it will . 5 10 for by way , by the way . 5 14 for whether conceives , whether he conceives . 6 18 for be a question without question , may very well be a question . 6 32 for and commanded , and they commanded . 7 22 for ought cannot , it cannot . 7 41 for souldiers , for his souldiers . 8 5 for that that there is a that there is a. 8 33 for his baptising , his baptisme . 9 21 for further demand , further i demand . 10 3 for with it hath , which it hath . in the preface . page . 2. line 9. for pursuing , reade perusing , in the same line , for notice therein , reade notice how therein . the infants advocate against the cruel doctrine of those presbyterians who hold, that the greatest part of dying infants shall be damned : in answer to a book of mr. giles firmin's entituled, scripture warrant, &c. / by tho. grantham. grantham, thomas, 1634-1692. 1688 approx. 83 kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from 17 1-bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : 2008-09 (eebo-tcp phase 1). a41781 wing g1538 estc r43209 27021099 ocm 27021099 109913 this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons 0 1.0 universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase 1, no. a41781) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set 109913) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, 1641-1700 ; 1718:16) the infants advocate against the cruel doctrine of those presbyterians who hold, that the greatest part of dying infants shall be damned : in answer to a book of mr. giles firmin's entituled, scripture warrant, &c. / by tho. grantham. grantham, thomas, 1634-1692. 32 p. printed by j.d. for the author, london : 1688. imperfect: stained, print show-through, and slight loss of text. reproduction of original in bodleian library. created by converting tcp files to tei p5 using tcp2tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between 1473 and 1700 available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the 25,363 texts created during phase 1 of the project have been released into the public domain as of 1 january 2015. anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. 5% (or 5 pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of 100 instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level 4 of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p5, characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng firmin, giles, 1614-1697. -scripture-warrant sufficient proof. infant baptism -controversial literature. 2007-11 tcp assigned for keying and markup 2007-11 apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images 2008-01 emma (leeson) huber sampled and proofread 2008-01 emma (leeson) huber text and markup reviewed and edited 2008-02 pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion the infants advocate , against the cruel doctrine of those presbyterians , who hold , that the greatest part of dying infants shall be damned . in answer to a book of mr. giles firmin's , entituled , scripture warrant , &c. by tho. grantham . exod. 32. 32 , 33. yet now , if thou wilt , forgive their sin ; and if not , blot me , i pray thee , out of thy book which thou hast written . and the lord said unto moses , whosoever hath sinned against me , him will i blot out of my book . matth. 18. 10 , 11 , 14. take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones ; for i say unto you , that in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my father which is in heaven . for the son of man came to seek , and to save that which is lost — even so it is not the will of your father which is in heaven , that one of these little ones should perish . london , printed by j. d. for the author . 1688. the preface . honest reader ; i could not have thought that a man reputed wise , an old professor , and one who so bears himself upon his father's covenant ( whom he will have to be a son of abraham , and so himself to be abraham's son also ) could have given such evident proof of the contrary , as by his book he has brought forth . sure i am , i answered his two questions in much love and faithfulness , according to my ability , being thereunto desired by some of his neighbours : and i hope no impartial reader will censure me to be a scoffer , as mr. firmin does : but truly i think he was pleased to throw that dirt , that he might have some pretence to give scope to his ill spirit , to exercise it self that way . i confess i use these words upon the occasion of his talking so high of his father's covenant [ that it would even make a well man sick , to see what pitiful work he makes of it . ] and here i will give thee an account of it , and then judg of me as thou pleasest . saith mr. f. when i could not tell where to lay hold ( meaning in his dismal temptations ) my parental covenant and infant baptism was a support to me . so that i bless god , 1. for abraham ' s covenant . 2. i bless god that i had godly parents . 3. i bless god my parents were no anabaptists , &c. only a word , some may think you had godly parents , mine were not so : it may be i had a godly grandfather , or a mother ; had you so ? no doubt but you may improve the covenant from him . the second commandment will help you — others may say , baptized i am , but my parents bad enough . well , art awake ? and art in earnest for christ and the saving blessings come by him ? you may improve your covenant . a woman putting a question , how she might know whether ever she had these qualifications ? mr. f. tells us , that whilst he was troubled about making out these qualifications , there comes a motion into my mind , ( saith he ) what say you to your father's covenant ? you know your parents were godly — will you stand to your father's covenant ? here my qualification was the choice of my father's god , who was mine before by an external covenant : but now to have him my god , my portion by an internal covenant , and efficacy , here i was pent up . will you chuse or refuse him ? &c. now whether this discourse will not almost make a well man sick ( i mean a serious christian troubled ) to hear a wise man talk at this rate ? and whether he does not lay his foundation upon his qualification ? for by that , saith he , was the choice of my father's god. and does he not also set up his will as high as ever any did , in chusing or refusing god to be his god , his portion by internal covenant and efficacy ? sure he doth . mr. f's great business is to abuse and disgrace me , by false and foolish stories , which have been told him by others , which i pass by as unworthy observation . and then he falls in with the papists against me , in the case of abstaining from , or eating blood , justifying himself and them in the latter . tho he confesses the believing gentiles were forbidden to eat blood by that decree , act. 15. 29. and when these decrees were repealed ; he cannot tell ; and whilst he makes us for observing them , such as do not believe the blood of christ to be our atonement ; and that we hold some things to be unclean of themselves ; he condemns also the primitive christians , who religiously abstain'd from blood for several hundred years after christ , and makes himself wiser than the apostles ; for had they known such to be the consequence , they would not have made them , nor have deliver'd them to be kept as they did , acts 16. 4. we know that that which goes into the man defiles not , and therefore blood defiles not , but acting against god's word defiled evah , even by eating that which was good for food ; and so may mr. f. defile himself , for he says he will eat blood puddings , s. a. by which he means , sir anabaptist : and indeed a scornful spirit breaths in many pages of his late books . he is pleased to throw dirt upon me very freely , about an escape of the pen or press , i am not sure which , and yet he being a scholar , and acquainted with such over-sights , could not but discern , unless malice blinded him , that it was an oversight . the passage is about the time when transubstantiation came into the world , and the book which he quarels has it thus : how rigidly do they impose the decrees of the trent-councils : where note , the word councils being plural , he might easily have supposed lateran , which was wanting ; for thus it stands in the catechism of the papists ( of which i give notice pag. 55. ) the lateran and trent councils , and from thence i took the date of transubstantiation . not but that i have read the same in other authors . but here he brands me with gross ignorance , and i grant i am not so well read as himself , if that will please him . and my rejoycing is this , that in simplicity and godly sincerity i wrote that book which he despises ; and i hope god will bless my endeavours , in which i trust , i have no other scope but his glory and the good of all men ; heartily desiring that all truth were restored to its primitive purity and simplicity . as to his three first chapters , i shall say little to them at present , being very well satisfied with my answers to his two questions , notwithstanding all that he has said to render them invalid . the chief thing which i design in this reply is , to maintain ( what in me is ) the mercy of god to all dying infants , against mr. f. and others , whose cruel doctrine sends them by millions to hellish torments , as appears by this book of mr. firmin's , p. 8. if all dying infants shall be saved ; there will be millions in heaven ( saith he ) in whom the spirit of god — had nothing to do in their salvation . i say , to maintain the salvation of all dying infants against those who would thus damn them , is especially my present undertaking . and if mr. f. be disposed to urge me further , it is a subject i am willing to debate with him , when and how he pleases , so that we may discourse in love ▪ as becomes christians . and as to the questions about sacred baptism , that work may perhaps be undertaken in a particular treatise by it self . in the mean time , let it be considered , that it has been granted both by papists and protestants , ( and those of the more learned sort too ) that there is no scripture for infant-baptism . that the scripture shews us no other way of baptizing , but by dipping . yea , i lately asked a * doctor of the church of england very seriously , whether he held infant-baptism to be of divine institution ? who very freely gave me this answer , no truly , i only look upon it as a church-rite . but then , whether the church have such power , as to make rites and ceremonies in religion , and particularly thus to alter the subject and manner of baptism , as has confessedly been done by the church of rome , and in part by the church of england , is the business for this present age to take into their most serious consideration . t. g. the infants advocate , against the cruel doctrine of those presbyterians , who hold , that the greatest part of dying infants are damned . division 1. mr giles firmin was pleased to print two questions , and desires those , whom he calls anabaptists , to answer them ; and at the request of some of his neighbours , i wrote a brief , and i hope , a modest answer to them , not for contention , but for satisfaction to such as desire to know the truth in the matters thereby put to the question by mr. f. who finds himself aggrieved , tho nothing is done but what he desired ; that is , his questions answered : and tho he says they are not , yet that shall not provoke me to say much to him concerning them . but seeing by this occasion we are unavoidably fallen upon the business of infants-salvation ; whether god almighty ordained baptism , or any other rite to be necessary to their salvation ? or , whether the greatest , or any part of dying infants shall be damned in hellish torments ? a question of great weight and importance ; i find my self concern'd to proceed in opposing that cruel doctrine , which would send millions of dying infants to hell torments . it was the judgment of austin , and many others , that unless infants were baptized , and received the lord's supper , they could not be saved : and mr. firmin seems to be of the same mind with respect to their baptism : and moreover , he holds that infants must have faith and repentance , as necessary to their salvation , or they must all perish . i will set down his own words . in pag. 90. of his plea , he speaks thus : to return to infants , they must be regenerate , and have faith some way , else they must perish . and in his book entituled , scripture warrant , &c. he speaks thus , pag. 76. they who are regenerate , have faith and repentance . but all infants saved , are regenerated : therefore all infants saved , have faith and repentance . and in pag. 21. he counts it an error in me for supposing , if isaac had died before he was eight days old , he might have been saved . so ( saith he ) this covenant ( meaning the covenant of circumcision ) might have been spared . and in pag. 40. the same ( saith he ) i may say for baptism , being christ's own institution , this is the hand of the spirit accompanying it , when and where he pleaseth , shall be the means to convey spiritual blessings to the hearts of some infants , and prove to them the washing of regeneration . so that , i think , i have done him no wrong in the account i have given of his opinion . to all which i answer . to intermit a little the business of infants faith and repentance , we will consider what he says of circumcision and baptism . he tells us , pag. 39. that he cannot conceive how it can consist with the wisdom , holiness , and goodness of god , to institute an ordinance in his church , for spiritual and saving ends , and strictly to command this ordinance to be administred to such subjects as children of eight days old — and he himself not work with his own institution , when and where he pleases , to the good and benefit of that subject to whom it is administred , this subject having need of the spiritual good , signified and sealed thereby . it doth implicitly charge the institution with vanity . to which i reply . 1. considering what mr. f. says of isaac dying before the eighth day , ( which i noted before ) his sense is this ; that from the time that circumcision was instituted , it makes that covenant of circumcision a vanity , to think any of abraham's seed ( tho but infants of eight days old ) could be saved if not circumcised : and then , i pray , what is like to become of all the world beside , who had no interest in the covenant of circumcision ? must they not all perish ? we shall hear more of that anon . 2. and besides this , tho he makes circumcision thus necessary to the salvation of infants , yet he does not believe that all infants that were circumcised were saved ; for these words of his [ when and where he pleases ] carry this sense in a presbyterian breast , that tho circumcision did by express order belong to all the males of abraham's seed , being eight days old , yet perhaps but few of many of them should be saved : which i evidently shewed in my answers to mr. f's question , and to mr. petto . now here i do profess to believe , that almighty god did not thus ordain circumcision to be absolutely necessary ; because they , to wit , infants , can neither understand his will herein , nor desire it , neither hinder it ; it wholly depends on others to do it for them , and why then they should perish if it be not done , no reason can be shewed : but that which is the hardest thing of all , is , that if isaac had died before the eighth day , he should not be saved , when yet it was not lawful to circumcise him . what is this ? does god damn infants for dying before they be eight days old ? or for not having that done to them which by god's law ought not to be done before the eighth day ? this is the cruelst doctrine that can be . and i will shew how contrary it is to the doctrine of learned protestants . one saith thus upon gen. 17. 14. it is no good reading to say the uncircumcised man-child , but [ zachar ] the male , &c. shall be cut off ; for the infant of eight days old , mentioned ver . 12. is of purpose omitted here . hence then it is inferred , that there was no such absolute necessity of circumcision , that children wanting it should be damned . again , this place cannot be understood of infants that are uncircumcised , 1. that addition , the eighth day , is used only by the septuagint , it is not in the hebrew . 2. the words are , qui non circumciderit , he which shall not circumcise . so readeth the original , the chaldee paraphrast , junius , &c. which sheweth that it must be understood of them that are adulti , and not of infants — . if infants be not circumcised it is the parents fault — as may appear in the example of moses , whom the lord punished , and not the child for neglecting it . 3. concerning baptism , i do believe it to be a very solemn ordinance , and also very useful in the church of god ; yet i do not find that it is the hand of the spirit to convey grace to the heart of any infant , seeing what it conveys , it doth it by faith and by its figure ; representing the death , burial , and resurrection of christ , and ours with him , &c. of all which infants know nothing , being sprinkled , as i formerly shewed , very often when they are fast asleep ; and if awake , they know nothing of the mystery of baptism . but mr. f. brought three scriptures to prove his doctrine , we shall now consider them ; ephes . 5. 26. christ loved his church , and gave himself for it ; that he might sanctify and cleanse it by the washing of water , through the word . i allow baptismal water to be here meant ; but then we see it does not cleanse but by or through the word , nor doth the word profit unless it be mixed with faith in them that hear it ; heb. 4. 1 , 2. the church is purified in obeying the truth through the spirit ; 1 pet. 1. 22. and baptism saves us , as it is the answer of a good conscience towards god , by the resurrection of christ . and to this agree his other two scriptures , tit. 3. 11. 1 pet. 3. 21. now infants being uncapable of being cleansed by baptism according to the sense of these scriptures , we may in no wise apply them to infant-baptism . divis . 2. and because it may be most convenient to treat of regeneration in this place , we will here consider mr. f's arguments to prove that infants have faith and repentance . his first argument is as followeth . arg. 1. if all , even adult persons , are passive in the work of regeneration , then infants are capable of regeneration . but the antecedent is true . answ . 1. here we are told that grown persons are passive ( that is , they do nothing at all ) in the work of regeneration ; this is the meaning of his antecedent . now if this be true , as he says it is , then if they do nothing , they neither hear the word , nor believe it , nor repent , nor hate nor turn from sin ; for these are at least some of the parts of the work of regeneration . now i would fain know who is active in all this , if the party regenerate be not ? st. paul tells us , with the heart man believeth unto righteousness , and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation , rom. 10. 10. when peter shewed the jews their sin , and preached christ to them , they were pricked to the heart : now observe , they came to hear the word , they gave audience , they gave credit to it , god blessed the word with power : now they cry out , what shall we do ? peter exhort them to repent , &c. and they gladly receive his word , and had the washing of regeneration the same day . now let god have the glory of this , and all conversions , who is the first mover in it , and the efficient cause of it ; yet he is absurd that will say , man is as passive as an infant that can neither hear , nor receive any instruction at all . and therefore i deny his antecedent , it is not true , the adult are some way active in the work of conversion ; yea all that know the work , do know what wrestling with corruption is , and how unable they are to overcome in the conflict with satan and flesh , without supernatural strength , or aid from heaven , but yet they act , and wait for help in all their actings . 2. men are commanded to hear , that their souls may live , isa . 55. if they hear and obey not , they sin against god , rom. 10. 16 , 17 , 18. we grant that the power converting , is not of the creature ; we are not sufficient of our selves to think any thing as of our selves . all our faculties are given us of god. it 's our duty to put these faculties into act ; to hear , repent , and believe , is man's duty . it is not the duty of infants to hear , repent , believe , &c. therefore they are not regenerated this way . what you urge from the shunamite's son and lazarus , being both dead , and so equally passive as to rise from death , is wholly impertinent , and being put into argument , is false ; for thus you must argue , if you say any thing , infants dead are as capable to rise as the adult , being dead . ergo , they are as capable of hearing , beleiving , and repenting as the adult . the consequence is false ; many instances we have of the adult , who hear , believe , and repent ; but no instance of one infant ever regenerated this way . 3. as for your captious demands about our being quickned , &c. you may well spare them , till you give better evidence of your own conversion ; for your books do evidently shew , that a jeering idle spirit has dominion in you . howbeit this we say ; the original cause of our conversion , is the love of god : the meritorious cause , is the blood of christ : the ministerial cause , is the evidence of truth , or the word of truth : the efficient cause , is the power of god's grace , john 1. 12. the formal cause , is believing and obeying the truth through the spirit : the final cause , is god's glory and our salvation ; to the obtaining of which all our faculties of hearing , understanding , will , and affection , are given us of god to be put into act. this is not required of infants ; and how they are sanctified by the spirit , god only knoweth . 4. but now , saith mr. firmin , i will not have him for my god , who cannot most omnipotently make me both will , and do what he will. but i reply , these are great swelling words of vanity , and nothing to the purpose : we dispute not what god can do ; for he can , of a stone in the street , make a better man than either of us . and we deny not , but god hath sometimes , and may still , if he please , convert some by miraculous operations . but to say that all conversions are miraculous , as mr. f. does , is very false . paul was converted miraculously , so was not lydia . what i say upon ephes . 1. 19 , 20. is mistaken by you , for i extend it further than to the resurrection of the body ; for i expresly say he has power to do whatsoever he pleases , and so to raise us up , &c. but if i was short or obscure , this is my meaning , the faith of christians is agreeable to the power which god shewed in christ when he raised him from the dead ; and i think 1 pet. 1. 3. doth very well explain ephes . 1. 19 , 20. blessed be the god and father of our lord jesus christ , which according to his abundant mercy , hath begotten us again to a lively hope , by the resurrection of christ from the dead . mr. firmin argues thus ; they who are regenerated , have faith and repentance : but all infants saved , are regenerated : therefore all infants saved , have faith and repentance . answ . 1. here is a fault in your logick , * your major should have been universal , or else you conclude nothing rationally . 2. therefore i deny the major , and say , some may be regenerated ( i mean cleansed from sin , renewed by christ , and made fit for heaven ) without faith and repenuance , namely , infants ; and sure i am mr. f. shall never be able to prove his major , being taken universally ; and if he like not to mend his major , i reject his argument , and retort it thus . 3. they that are regenerated , do continue in the apostles doctrine and fellowship , and in breaking of bread , and in prayers . but all infants saved are regenerated . ergo , all infants saved continue stedfastly in the apostles doctrine and fellowship , and in breaking of bread , and in prayers . now as this argument is fallacious , so certainly is yours . again , 4. you that make all conversion miraculous , how can you tie regeneration to faith and repentance , as it respects infants ? do not you contradict your self , mr. firmin , in this ? may not god sanctify infants what way he pleaseth , but must be limited to your methods ? sir , what he doth in the regeneration of infants is a secret , let it alone to him . 5. but let us hear dr. taylor , one of your own mind as to poedo-baptism , yet he saith , let infants be pressed with all the inconveniencies which are consequent to original sin ; yet it will not be laid to their charge , so as to condemn them : or if it could , yet the mercy and absolute goodness of god will secure them , if he take them away before they can glorify him by a free obedience — for as infants without their own consent — contracted the guilt of adam ' s sin , and are liable to all the punishments which can with justice descend upon his posterity , who are personally innocent : so infants shall be restored — by the second adam , by the redemption of jesus christ , by his righteousness and mercies , applied either immediately , or how , or when he pleases to appoint . and here mr. f. may learn from dr. taylor , how infants may be guilty of sin , and yet innocent ; which he would make a contradiction in me . mr. f. tells us his major ( last denied ) is clear from our own confession , in that we say faith and repentance are the two parts of regeneration : but he that grants this , extends it only to the adult , of whom these are things required ; and not to infants , of whom they are not required ; so that this is a meer caption , unbecoming a grave disputant . but let us hear how he proves his minor. they ( saith he ) who are born unclean , that are sinful and corrupt by nature , must be regenerated before they can be saved . but so are infants born . therefore , &c. answ . it is not denied by us that infants are born unclean , and we grant that before they come to heaven they must be cleansed , so that you might have spared this argument . the thing you are to prove is , that infants cannot be cleansed without faith and repentance . but this you cunningly slide over , and you will find it to be an undertaking too hard for you , and i think you are the first man that ever attempted it . it is not your telling us again of your seminal faith that will do it , which , as you refer it to infants , is a meer chimera of your own brain . but when you speak of the adult , you seem to speak sense in these words , when god regenerates an adult person , he doth first infuse the principles , seeds , habits of all the graces of the spirit . when the sower went out to sow , mat 13. 3. it was but the seeds of faith and repentance which he did sow , which was first received , and these seeds grew up , mark ▪ 4. 27. now , sir , if you will stand to this , and these texts to govern your speech , we may very well come to agree . what then is the seed here spoken of ? our saviour tells us , it is the word of god , which men hear preached unto them ; is this the seminal faith and repentance which you talk on ? then this seminal faith is not in infants , for as they cannot hear the word , so no sower , or preacher is sent to them . and i suppose you would not baptize an adult person , tho he has heard the word , unless you see some effect of it , at least that the tender blade appear : for persons are not made disciples or christians by being baptized ; but they are baptized because they are made disciples , john 4. 1. mat. 28. 19. mathetusate panta ta ethne baptizantes autous . and disciples may be called christians , acts 11. now with what conscience then can you baptize an infant , that never to your knowledg received this seed at all ? but mr. f. bids us twy-fallow and try-fallow our ground , and sow no seed , for according to your doctrine ( saith he ) you may have a crop without it . but by his favour this is not our case , but his own , for he sows no seed to infants , and yet he will have a crop of them ; for he will have them baptized asleep or awake by force . now baptism is an act of obedience springing from the word ( the seed ) sown ; acts 2. 38 , 40. act. 8. 12. nay more , he exacts this crop of infants not only before he sow any seed , or before any be sown by any other that he knows of , but also before he so much as twy-fallow , or plow at all . and thus whilst he thought to kick the husbandman on the breech , he hath kick'd up his own heels . mr. f. quotes 1 john 3. 9. it is the seed which remains . peter ' s faith failed sadly ( saith he ) as to the act , but the seed remained . this would lead us to another question [ as it is his manner to confound his discourses with diversities ] but i shall hold him to the parable of the sower , alledged by himself mat. 13. and then i may tell him the seed only remains in good and honest hearts , but not in every place where it is sown , nor in every place where it is received ; remember the high-way , and the stony and thorny ground . mr. f's arg. 2. no unclean person shall see god ; heb. 12. 14. but infants by nature are unclean . if the scripture be believed , they must bear the image in which they were created by god , that ever see the face of god. answ . should i retort this argument , i might shew the infirmity of its form . but i shall take your sense . i suppose by the major you mean no unclean or wicked person , as such , shall see god. and by the minor you mean that infants are born of sinful parents , polluted by original sin , and so under condemnation ; and therefore before they can come to heaven they must be cleansed from these pollutions , &c. if this be your sense i agree with you . but then your argument touches not the question , which is , whether infants are not made clean from their pollutions , and freed from condemnation , without having faith and repentance ? i say they may , because god requires not these things of infants . but you argue further . mr. f. all the members of the kingdom of heaven are holy : but children are members of the kingdom of heaven : not by birth , it is by regeneration . answ . first , here i think you have given your cause its deaths blow . it seems now that the infants of believers are no more holy by their birth of believing parents than others ; and whether they be regenerated you cannot tell , for you do not hold that all the children of believers are saved . what is now become of the birth-priviledg so much gloried in by mr. baxter , and others ? we have been told infants are holy by birth , if one parent be but a believer ; and that children of believers are holy by prerogative of seed . but now you confess the truth , and i grant infants are not holy by birth , let their parents be never so christian . and i have already granted that infants must be cleansed from all sin before they come to heaven . but yet you touch not the question , whether they cannot be cleansed from sin without they have faith and repentance ; one would think you begin to be afraid of the question , and i am sure you have cause so to be . arg. 3. mr. f. tells us , if adam had continued in innocency , his children had born the image of god from the birth : i never heard it denied . that which i infer hence is , that children are capable of the image of god , and receiving the seeds of all grace it was so then , why not now ? answ . what manner of the image of god infants should have born , had adam continued innocent , is unknown to man ; and 't is but vain to concern our selves about that which cannot be known : but this we know , it should not have stood in faith and repentance as now , because in both these we confess our selves sinners , and this is enough to shew the vanity of your question , if so then , why not now ? but you proceed thus ; mr. f. shall the sin of one person be so mischievous , to deprive adam and all his posterity of the image of god , and bring the seeds of all corruption into their nature , and shall the grace of god be denyed to renew his image in little children , when and where he pleaseth ? children being a great part of the world , shall the spirit of god have nothing to do in their hearts ? answ . i know no man more faulty than mr. f. in this matter ; for he will not allow the grace of god to have any thing to do with the greatest part of infants . i doubt not but god doth all things needful for them , to make them holy , by the blood of christ ; his grace and spirit . but all this shall be done without faith and repentance ; because god does not require it of infants ; if he does , name your text. mr. f. now tells us ▪ adam's disobedience far ▪ exceeds the obedience of christ , which he compares in justification , rom. 5. 16 , 17 , 18. for his disobedience could defile all his posterity , but christ's obedience doth not cleanse and regenerate one child . answ . come st. paul , thou hast told us that such as thou art by letters when absent , such thou wilt be indeed when present , 2 cor. 10. 11. wherefore i shall give place to thee to answer for thy self , by the very places which mr. f. has quoted out of thy epistle to the romans , chap. 5. 16 , 17 , 18. and not as it was by one that sinned , so is the gift : for the judgment was of one to condemnation ; but the free-gift is of many offences to justification . for if by the offence of one , death reigned by one much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness , shall reign in life by one , jesus christ . th●refore as by the offence of one , judgment came upon all men ▪ to condemnation ; even so , by the righteousness of one , the free-gift came upon all men unto justification of life . and whereas mr. f. boldly tells us , that christ's obedience doth not cleanse and regenerate one child . i ask him whose obedience then does cleanse infants ? let st. paul answer again , ver . 19. as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners : so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous . blessed paul , thou hast answered to the life . mr. firmin says , christ's obedience doth not cleanse and regenerate one child . thou sayst , christ's obedience made many righteous ; and they that are made righteous are clean and regenerated sufficiently . blessed apostle ! thou hast turned the wisdom of the wise into foolishness . what follows in this paragraph is answered before , and for his uncivil expressions in the close of it i shall pass them by . mr. firmin's arg. 4. if all children dying such are justified and saved , then there will be millions in heaven , in whom the spirit of god , as the third person in the blessed trinity , had nothing to do in their salvation . answ . first , i take notice that mr. firmin by this argument would have millions of infants damned , because in his judgment the spirit of god hath nothing to do with millions of them in the business of salvation . this , this is that wicked doctrine which i oppose . 2. but how will he prove that the spirit hath to do in the business of the salvation of any of them , more than i shall prove he hath to do in the salvation of all dying infants ? he would prove it by two things , ( 1. ) because the distinct subsistences have their distinct manner of working . ( 2. ) because regeneration is given to the spirit . now , suppose this be true , it does not prove that some infants have the assistance of the spirit , and some dying infants have no assistance from him . thus he beats ▪ the air , but proves not any thing at all relating to the point in question . 3. but i will prove that all dying infants have all that assistance of the spirit ( in the business of salvation ) which is any way needful for them . i do it thus : all those dying infants , for whom christ shed his precious blood , have sufficient assistance from the spirit , in the business of their salvation . but christ shed his precious blood for all dying infants : ergo , all dying infants have sufficient assistance from the spirit in the business of their salvation . the major is evident , because no dying infant does resist the holy ghost , and because god is no respecter of persons . the minor is evident because christ died for all , tasted death for every man ; he bought them that deny him , and bring upon themselves swift destruction : and seeing his tender mercies are over all his works , the holy spirit is not wanting to further the salvation of any dying infant . deut. 10. 17 , 18. 1 tim. 2. 6. heb. 2. 9. 2 pet. 2. 1. psal . 145. 9. come mr. firmin , let me come near you ; it may be you have had some children that died in their infancy as well as i. shew me a reason now why my dying infants might not have the application of christ's blood by the holy spirit , as well as yours ? as for the manner of the spirit 's operation herein , i suppose we know it both alike , that is , not at all . nevertheless i do believe the father , son , and holy spirit does what is needful in their respective operations , tho i know not in all points how it is done in the case of dying infants . it is enough that we have christ's testimony , that to them belongs the kingdom , that is , to all in that state , for he rejects not any one of them , neither in these words , nor in any other that proceeded from his sacred lips , nor from the pens of the writers of the holy scriptures ; and then what is mr. firmin that he should by this presumptuous argument send many millions of them to hell ? because in his conceit , the holy ghost has nothing to do with them in the business of their salvation ; the spirit 's operations being limited by him herein to the infants of believers only ; and if you look well to his notions , there is not a few of them too , who have no help from the holy spirit , for they being not all elect , must be damned for all their baptism ; and this is the kindness he has to write a plea for infants . divis . 3. wherein is considered , whether the covenant of grace was taken from the whole world , and appropriated only to abraham and his seed , from the time of the making the covenant of circumcision , gen. 17. mr. firmin , p. 20. ] now i come to my question , and shall make it appear your answer signifies nothing . you tell me of a covenant of grace made with the whole world in the promised seed to adam , &c. i tell you , while adam , noah , and abraham lived under that covenant made with the whole world , god was pleased to make a covenant with abraham , and with none other but abraham , to be his god , and the god of his seed , and sealed this covenant , by which covenant and seal , god did separate and divide all abraham's seed from the world , living under the covenant you speak of . answ . 1. it is evident , that either mr. firmin holds , that the covenant made with adam , noah , and abraham , before that mentioned gen. 17. was not the covenant of grace ; or else that covenant , gen. 17. was not the covenant of grace ; or that the covenant of grace was now taken from all the world , and appropriated and restrained to abraham and his seed only . the latter is clearly his sense , that god was now only the god of abraham and his seed in the covenant of grace , and of none other . but this doctrine is most false and absurd , as i evidently shewed to mr. petto , to this effect . we ought to understand that abraham and his seed was not the only persons in the world , which were under the covenant of grace , at that time when god made with abraham the covenant of circumcision , gen. 17. for ( as mr. broughton observes ) sem lived 50 years after the covenant of circumcision was made with abraham ; and divers other holy men lived long after the covenant of circumcision was made ; who were all true worshippers of god according to the covenant of grace : melchisedeck blessing abraham , ( from whence st. paul infers , that he was greater than abraham , heb. 7. 7. ) yet neither he , nor the rest of the patriarchs were concern'd in the covenant of circumcision . and as neither these , nor their infants or posterity , were liable to any loss of the covenant of grace , by their not being circumcised after the manner of abraham ; so neither job , nor other worthy men that were not of the seed of abraham , had no necessity at all to be concern'd in the covenant of circumcision : from whence it must needs follow , that god did not intend the sign of circumcision , as necessary to entitle men to the covenant of grace , nor that none could be saved who were not under the covenant of circumcision . but certain it is , the covenant of circumcision was appropriate to abraham , and to his seed , for very great ends , respecting special preservation to the family of abraham , as being now the family from whence christ should proceed according to the flesh : and with whom god would presence himself in a land of promise , by a distinct way of worship from all other nations , who were then falling very fast to idolatry . again , mr. f. telling us , that god made that covenant of circumcision with abraham , and none other . by this he has given a fatal blow to his cause , which he is so zealous to defend . because by this , it is evident , that the covenant made with abraham , gen. 17. considered as it was peculiar to him and his seed , and no other , no not of the patriarchs then living , it was therefore ( at least so considered ) not the covenant of grace . but it was only , so considered ; the covenant of circumcision , as it is also called , acts 7. 8. without any such adjunct as the covenant of grace ; as if all that were not in that peculiar covenant throughout the world , must be damn'd without mercy . no , no , god had his tender mercies for others , tho this covenant was peculiar to abraham . god was no such respecter of persons when he made the covenant with abraham , gen. 17. but in every nation , from the beginning even to the end of the world , all that feared the lord , and wrought righteousness , found acceptance with him . this old truth , peter himself ( being tinctured with this notion , that god had no grace for any but abraham's seed ) could not perceive , till god by miracle did reveal it to him ; no tho his commission , mat. 28. 19 , 20. did oblige him to teach all nations , and to preach the gospel to every creature , yet till now he durst not preach to the gentiles , acts 10. and therefore it is the less strange , that mr. firmin , and such as he , who take themselves to be abraham's seed , because they are born according to the flesh of such as they take to be believers , should be so cruelly dark in this glorious truth , that god is no respecter of persons . nor do i see any thing more liable to puff men up with pride , than this , that they were in the covenant of grace from their infancy , because their parents were believers , or at least one of them , or their grandfather , &c. was so ; as mr. f. words it . this opinion undid the jews generally , and i doubt it has spoiled many of the gentiles . our blessed saviour , john 8. has a long disputation to deliver the jews from this their vain confidence , which they built upon their being abraham's seed . and st. paul bent his stile against the same thing , rom. 2. 26 , 27 , 28 , 29. and chap. 3. ver . 19. to the end . but the more they laboured to undeceive these deceived jews ▪ the more they were hated by them ; and if we meet with the same measure , we must bear it . for indeed , scarce any so fierce against us , for extending the grace of god to all men , as being therein no respecter of persons , and yet shewing to sinners the necessity of actual repentance towards god , and faith towards our lord jesus christ , as necessary to their membership in the church militant , by the baptism of repentance for remission of sins ; i say , none so fierce against us , as those who boast they are abraham's seed , because descended from gentiles , who they suppose to be believers . but let me have a care , i must now answer for my self , for mr. firmin demands of me , page 21. by what scripture-warrant do you reduce our children , into the state of the children of adam , or noah , &c. since we are never called their children , but only abraham ' s , whose seed differ from theirs by a special covenant made with them , and sealed with them. to which of them did god say , i will be the god of thy seed , and i will seal it ? but i reply . these seem to me to be great swelling words of vanity , much worse in a gentile than in a jew . and i would know what special covenant hath god made with mr. f. and his seed , which he hath denied to tho. grantham and his seed ? but to the question . 1. i am far from denying abraham's fatherhood over the faithful christians ; but i deny that every believer that hath an infant , is the father of the faithful . and i deny many to have any right to that title , who boast much of it , because they do not the works of abraham , but despise those that worship god according to his will. thus did not abraham : but thus does mr. firmin . 2. i find that adam was the son of god , luke 3. whether called so meerly for his creation , or for that after the promise , gen. 3. 15. he walked with god , or for both , i will not dispute . and i find that christ's descent is reckoned from adam , and the saviour of the world was first promised to him , and to proceed from him ; and therein was the covenant of grace in the first place made with him , and in him with all mankind who then were in him : nor do i find that this gracious covenant was ever repealed , but is in force to this day , as is granted by mr. baxter . 3. i find that noah found grace in the sight of the lord , being righteous before god. and i know that mr. baxter , and other learned christians , acknowledg the covenant made with noah and his generations , to be a covenant of grace , and of perpetual duration , being indeed the renewal of the covenant made with adam . i find also , that noah became heir of the righteousness which is by faith , and that his faith did lead him to believe that which was as difficult to sense , as that abraham should have a son , viz. that the whole world should be drowned : his faith also was made perfect by works , for , whatsoever the lord commanded , that did noah . 4. i find that all men from the time of the flood , are the generations of noah , and that he was perfect in his generation , a just man , and one that walketh with god ; and as one of his sons proved wicked , so did one of the sons of abraham . i do also find in scripture , that we are all called the sons of adam ; to you , o men , i call , and my voice is to the sons of adam , or man , prov. 8. 4. and as the sons of adam , god shews them what is good , even to do justly , to love mercy , and to walk humbly with their god , mich. 6. now from these scripture-warrants , i honour my great grandfather adam , because to him was committed the first oracles of god , making known the covenant of grace : i honour my grandfather noah , because he was heir of the righteousness of faith , and had the second edition of the covenant of grace , extended to all his generations , till by sin they eject themselves . i likewise honour my father abraham , because he had the third edition of the covenant of grace , as a blessing to all nations , or to all the families of the earth , gen. 12. and also for that god was pleased to choose his posterity , as the people from whom men should look for their saviour , with respect to his descent according to the flesh , and of this covenant , as also of the land of promise was circumcision given as a sign to his posterity , that they might not mix with other nations , in life or religion ; but to abraham himself , as a seal of the righteousness of faith , which he had near 30 years before he was circumcised . but for all this , i know that in gospel-times , unless we crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts , we cannot be abraham ' s seed , nor heirs according to the promise , gal. 3. 29. and the seal of our sonship and right to the inheritance , is the holy spirit , ephes . 1. 13. gal. 4. 6. ephes . 4. 30. mr. firmin . now suppose that were true which is the great business of your pamphlet , to prove that all dying infants are saved . that thereby you may take off the odium which lies upon you for shutting the children of believers out of the church , and denying them baptism , they being under the covenant of grace made with adam , ( as you say ) tell me , is this covenant of god with abraham's seed in vain ? does the holy one make vain covenants ? as to his seed , they were well enough before : if isaac die before the 8th day , he is saved , so that this covenant might have been spared . answer . 1. i hav● said enough to shew that abraham's covenant , gen. 17. was not in vain ; but i am sure you here make a vain use of it . for had isaac died before he was eight days old , in your judgment he had not been saved , and consequently no male infants which died before they were circumcised were saved . this is that wretched doctrine which i oppose . and seeing you make baptism as necessary to salvation as circumcision was , and call it the seal of the covenant ; you either make infants which die unbaptized , saved by an unsealed covenant , ( as you speak ) or else you damn all infants which die unbaptized . no other sense can be made of your strange questions , p. 73. your question is this . are they all justified and saved ? then it must be by a covenant of grace . and shall they be under the covenant so , as to be in a justified and saved state by it , and not have the seal of the covenant ? as if the covenant of grace were of no use to poor infants , without the crossing , sprinkling , or ( as you ) pouring a little water on their forehead , for which you have no rule at all in the word of god. i cannot but admire your great blindness . 2. the covenant of circumcision might not now be spared , because god had now designed , to honour abraham's faith , and to make him and his posterity famous both for multitude , religion , and other excellencies , but chiefly to point out all nations from whence to look for a saviour ; which accordingly was foreknown and expected by many other nations , by means of the covenant made with abraham . but you add : if their seed die while little ones , i hope they are not further from salvation by this covenant , nor parents the less hope — two strings to a bow are good . but i answer : 1. you so string your bow of salvation for infants that you break it , and so kill more infants than you save , yea , an isaac himself cannot escape you , but must perish , if he die before the 8th day . pray , sir , what manner of doctrine is this ? is it in the power of infants to live till the 8th day ? and if god take them away before the 8th day , will god damn them because they were not circumcised , when yet by his own law they might not have it ? are these the comfortable strings you give parents to the bow of infants salvation ? 2. hence it is evident that it is you , not i , that make infants further off from salvation by the covenant of circumcision . for i say , ( though all the commands of god be good in their place and use ) yet he never ordained any rite , to be necessary to the salvation of poor infants . but according to your doctrine , if infants died before the covenant of circumcision was made , whether the first , second , third , fourth , fifth , sixth , or seventh day , their salvation was never the more doubtful for that . but now the case is very hard , for if isaac himself die before the 8th day he is lost , according to your sense of the covenant . what follows , i have answer'd before . mr. firmin . yet again , as to that notion wherein you so much glory , i have made five remarkable demonstrations , as you call them , to prove it ; you must make three more demonstrations , or else these five will not do the feat . 1. that god does save those that are under that covenant , without any condition in it . name that text , i pray . answ . 1. here observe again , mr. firmin is in good earnest , that no infants can be saved , unless they keep the condition of the covenant . and he makes heart-circumcision , and the circumcision of the flesh , both necessary conditions of the covenant , for infants salvation in the time of the law , or ever since abraham's time . and repentance , and faith , and baptism , the condition in the gospel . 2. i am to demonstrate the contrary , which with much ease ( by god's grace ) i shall do . i say then , almighty god made a covenant of grace with adam in the promised seed , gen. 15. in which covenant stood the salvation of all dying infants ; and yet no condition was there to be annexed on the part of infants ; howbeit , faith was necessary on adam's part , or else he had sinned in not believing the promise * . and its evident , abel had faith in this promise by his offering a lamb , a figure of christ the lamb slain from the foundation of the world. see diod. on gen. 4. to prove that god requires nothing of duty , as a condition of the covenant on the part of infants in order to salvation , i will set down two texts , deut. 11. 1. to 10. rom. 5. 14 , 18. and i also give you this argument : circumcision it self was not appointed to be a condition of the covenant of grace , necessary to the salvation of so much as one infant . ergo , there was never any thing imposed or required of infants as a necessary condition of the covenant , for the salvation of infants . the consequence i suppose will not be denied , because nothing can be pretended with so much probability this way , as circumcision : and for the major it is clear from the case of moses's child , exod. 4. 24 , 25. where we find that god sought not to kill the child , because it was not circumcised the 8th day , but he sought to kill moses ; which shews the child was not guilty of sin in this case . and that this note may be the more acceptable , i shall make some addition to the testimonies formerly given , and here shew the judgment of some learned writers in this case . cajetan ( a man no less zealous for infant-baptism than mr. firmin , yet ) writes thus : consentaneum est , &c. it is sit that none should be punished , but they which had committed the fault : but infants can commit no fault , therefore the punishment here assigned doth belong to the adult only , they only be rightfully punished , which only are justly blamed for the omission of circumcision . and saith a protestant doctor upon this sentence , put baptism ( meaning of infants ) in the place of circumcision , and this sentence is most true of the one , as well as of the other . yea , the ancients , quoted by the said doctor , tell us , circumcision did not profit the soul , but was only a sign of grace : for children when they understand not what is done to them , can reap no profit thereby to their souls , chrys . hom. 9. in gen. and irenaeus is alledged to say , circumcision was only given as a sign to the people . the conclusion is , that as it is certain that infants shall be cleansed and renewed , before they come to heaven ; so god hath not tied this mercy to any ritual , or thing to be done by us , but by the obedience of christ , and his free-grace , sanctifies them in a manner unknown to us . mr. firmin . 2. you must demonstrate ( saith he ) that by this covenant he saves those who have lost the image of god , and are corrupt by nature , for infant-regeneration , and heart-circumcision , is denied by you , and yours . answ . this demonstration also will easily be made , or else i am sure mr. firmin and my self , shall not be saved , for that we are as corrupt by nature , and have lost the image of god as much as any infant ; nay , we are sent to infants to learn the qualifications we want . and as all have sinned , and come short of the glory of god ; so they are justified freely by his grace , through the redemption which is in christ jesus ; rom. 3. 23 , 25. and tho christ is set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood , for the remission of sins that are past through the forbearance of god ; yet this faith is not required of infants , because they cannot believe on him of whom they have not heard , rom. 10. and tho you reply , that this is spoken of the adult , yet you are to know as it is the adult only to whom the gospel is preached , so it is the adult only who are required to believe . as for the way of the almighty in the business of infants regeneration , 't is a thing not revealed ; and therefore you do but vainly pretend to know it . and seeing it is said , that we know not the way of the spirit , nor how the bones do grow ▪ in the womb of her that is with child . it is strange that mr. firmin should know after what manner the hearts of infants are circumcised , and how they are regenerate . it is enough for us to know that they are redeemed by christ , and saved by grace ; for in knowing this , we know our gracious god will deny them no supplies which is needful for them . if this do not satisfie mr. f. then let him give some account to the world now he is grown up , how the spirit did work in the business of his regeneration in his infancy ; and if he can give no account of his own infant-regeneration , then , i think , it will be hard for him to give it of the manner of the regeneration of other infants . mr. firmin . 3. you must demonstrate , that tho infants have not actually sinned against the covenant of grace , yet they have not unbelief and impenitency seminally , which are quite opposite to the covenant of grace . answ . 1. i conceive nothing can be spoke more irrationally , nor unrighteously , than to suggest that poor infants have unbelief and impenitency in them . and yet so 't is , the seeds of those impieties at least mr. f. will have to be in them : and i demand of him , how he knows this ? and how he can tell when these sins against the covenant of grace , are purged from infants ? seeing he has told us they are not holy by their birth , i would know whether they be purged before their birth , or after ? but let us hear our saviour's judgment of little children , which all will grant to be more worth than mr. firmin's . he speaks of some just persons which need no repentance , whom he opposes to such as have gone astray . i will not presume , that this is only meant of infants , to whom our lord tells us the kingdom of heaven belongs ; but i humbly conceive , as it is true of them , so it does include them , as being of that number . again , he tells us , except we be converted and become as little children , we cannot see the kingdom of god. but if infants be guilty of vnbelief and impenitency , in such a degree , as these sins in them are quite opposite to the covenant of grace , we should have but little benefit by such conversion : and thus he reflects upon christ in his directions to his followers , as if christ gave not good counsel herein . st. paul exhorts christians , as touching malice , to be children ; in which speech he is directly contrary to mr. f. and st. peter would have us like new-born babes , i. e. to lay aside all malice , guile , hypocrisie , and evil speaking . but if unbelief and impenitency be in them seminally , these impieties are there also ; and then they are bad presidents , being as wicked as it is possible for them to be , in mr. f's judgment . however , mr. f. is compelled to confess , infants are not guilty of any actual sin against the covenant of grace . and then , who made you a judg of their hearts , sir ? sure this is an attempt too high for any man. but i must demonstrate that infants have not unbelief seminally . well , i will plead their cause as well as i can ; and i argue for them thus : they who have no object of faith propounded to them seminally , can have no unbelief seminally . but infants have no object of faith propounded to them seminally . ergo , they can have no unbelief seminally . if mr. f. deny the minor , i will hold him to his own law , affirmanti incumbit probatio . if he affirm that infants have an object of faith propounded to them seminally , let him prove it . as for the major , our saviour's words , john 15. 22. do establish it ; and indeed , this is the condemnation , that light is come — , and men love darkness . he that has no light cannot be blamed , because he cannot see . our lord charges not the sin of unbelief , till means to believe was rejected ; and will he be more unkind to the infant , than to the grown person ? who can have so vile an opinion of the almighty ! but i must demonstrate also , that infants have not impenitency seminally , yea , such impenitency as is quite opposite to the covenant of grace . well , i reply , first , by way of admiration , that ever such wild notions should issue from a learned head , that so he might have some specious pretence to damn poor infants : but god hath said , he will turn the wisdom of wise men backward , and make diviners mad , isa . 44. 25. 2. impenitency supposes the party charged , first , to be guilty of some sin committed , or desired , or conceived . but nothing of this can be justly charged against infants . consider them acquitted of original sin , by the mercy of god in their redeemer ; who shall lay any thing to their charge ? what have they done ? mr. firmin . do you ask what have they done ? did you never see revenge , wrath , pride , envy , rebellion against , and striking of parents , acting in little children ? answ . 1. these are not infants of eight days old , &c. but such who by the ill example of their tutors , quickly may learn these things . otherwise , if the child thinks it has cause to be angry , and to make defence , it does no more than you will vindicate in your own cause . and why does not charity make you think the best of infants , seeing you ought to think no evil of the weak actions of grown persons ? o , thou that canst see such beams , as revenge , wrath , pride , rebellion , &c. in the eyes of poor infants ! pluck these beams out of thine own , which evidently are thy distempers from the books which thou hast written , in which , not many pages are free from tincture of some of these diseases . but you add : blessed austin observed a sucking child , that was not able to articulate one word , look with a countenance even pale with envy , upon his fellow-suckling , which shared with him in the same milk ; which made the holy man cry out , ubi , domine ? quando , domine ? reply , how did austin know that the child was pale with envy ? suppose this good man himself had sat down to dinner , and another snatch it all away from him , perhaps he would have look'd pale also ; for such we must suppose the child's case to be , when another takes the breast , it thinks all is gone , for it yet understands not the rules of hospitality , or good-fellowship , being unsensible of the others necessity . the poor child attended its own preservation as nature taught it ; a poor ground on which to build so severe a charge . should the best of god's people be tried , how duly they make others sharers in their blessings , who have need of relief , they may perhaps be more justly charged than that sucking child ; judg no poor infants , lest ye be judged . to conclude : seminal faith , seminal repentance , seminal vnbelief , and seminal impenitency , are things of which we have no account in scripture . and though i would not offend mr. firmin , nor at all disparage his scholarship , which i acknowledg to be abundantly more than mine ; yet when i consider learning in saint paul's sense , 2 tim. 3. 14. i cannot but think these to be very wild and unlearned notions , which no man can be assured of , nor give a good account that he learned them of any of the master-builders , the holy apostles . and who ever asserts these things , shall never be able to prove them , viz. that some infants have faith and repentance seminally ; and others have vnbelief and impenitency seminally . and ( which is another impossibility ) no man can distinguish the infants one from another . nor can it ever be proved , that seminal faith and repentance ( if yet any body can tell what it is ) do give us any ground to baptize any body . for , suppose we take this seminal faith and repentance to be the faculties of credence and sorrow : or suppose some take them to be some secret inspirations of the spirit , yet sith they appear not to us , it is as if they were not . for that rule is good in this case , de● non apparentibus , & non existantibus eidem est ratio . it is the profession of faith and repentance , that qualifies a person ( in respect of us ) for sacred baptism ; the church is not judg of of hearts , they are only known to god infallibly . division 4. concerning original sin. it would even grieve a sober christian , to read the strange immaginations which men have published about original sin ; and the extreams they have run into on the right hand , and on the left , censuring one another very severely for their differing apprehensions in this matter . and it is remarkable , how cruelly censarious mr. firmin is against my self in particular , representing me as a master among the worst sort of anabaptists , who , he says , denies original sin. concerning which , he tells you , we are rotten . that the foundation of anabaptism lies in denying original sin. that in this we are given up to more blindness than the heathens , &c. to all which i answer : 1. if i be one of the worst of my brethren in this point , i hope the rest will be better thought of by men of moderation for my sake , when they have had ( what violent mr. firmin hath not ) patience to consider what i have published upon the account of original sin , ( and that long before i heard there was such a man in the world as mr. firmin ) in my christianismus primitivus , book 2. pag. 77 , 78. thus you read me . 2. for the better attaining to a powerful conviction of sin , and a sence of man's wretchedness by reason of sin , it is necessary to understate the general state of transgression , into which mankind is involved ; concerning which we find the scripture gives this testimony , that all have sinned , and come short of the glory of god , rom. 3. 23. and that by one man sin entred into the world , — for that all have sinned . and that the whole world lieth in wickedness ; which is also evident by common experience , every nation being greatly corrupted through the abounding of iniquity ; and the universality of the ways of sin does evince the same — that the apostle might well say , both jew and gentile are all under sin. 3. the sin of mankind is either original , or actual . the first is come upon all , even the very infant-state of mankind lie under it , of whom that saying is true , they have not sinned after the similitude of adam ' s transgression ; yet , death reigning over them , proves the transgression of adam to be upon them . this is that root-sin , called the sin of the world , john 1. 29. whereof none are free . nor is it convenient to extenuate or lessen this sin , either in its nature , or the punishment it brings with it ; it being indeed the filum certissimum , or leading-thred to all other iniquities , mankind being hereby corrupt ab origine , and wholly deprived of the glory of god , without the intervening mercy of a saviour . and hence we find david , when complaining of his sinful state , looks back to his corrupt original , amongst the rest of his iniquities , complaining , psal . 51. 5. behold , i was shapen in iniquity , and in sin did my mother conceive me . knowing as job saith , none can bring a clean thing out of an unclean one . so that they are not to be despised , who say , that in our humiliation for sin , we ought to bewail this our sinful original , which had been to adam's posterity like the sin of traytors , which bringeth with it corruption of blood to their off-spring , for which they must bear the shame of such transgressions . how do we find that the sin of progenitors was wont to be lamented by their off-spring among the israelites ? and is there not the same reason adam's children should do the like , as being sensible of the evil consequences thereof ? we also may say , our father hath sinned , and we have born his iniquity . 4. and hence i like the saying of irenaeus well , which i will give in english , because mr. f. is pleased to lock it up in latine . omnes enim venit , &c. christ came to save all by himself , all i say , who are born again in god ; infants , little ones , boys , and young men , and old men : but as for his , ideo per omnem venit aetatem , i let that alone , for i do not find that christ passed through the age of old men ; yet i say , he came to sanctifie every age , and therefore every age who do not profane the blood of christ by which they were sanctified ( as i am sure no infant doth ) they shall certainly be saved by him , and hence the salvation of all dying infants , is apparent enough . but how infants are born again in god , is a secret , and not to be demonstrated by mr. firmin , nor any other . surely had i written as irenaeus doth , he would have said i exclude the operation of the holy ghost ; for irenaeus says , he came to save all by himself , yet as 't is certain that the holy spirit is not wanting to the aged sinner , there is no ground to doubt of his care of poor infants . division 5. of free-will . concerning free-will , mr. f. calls it our diana , and an imperial majesty , representing us to deny god to be most blessed , because if his will be resisted , he failing of his end , is to want a degree of blessedness , &c. i answer : 1. then it seems , according to mr. f. all that god wills to be saved , must , and therefore shall be saved ; and the rest he wills to be damned , and they shall therefore be damned . but how he can reconcile his doctrines to these scriptures , i cannot tell , which saith , i live , i will not the death of the wicked . and that this is good in the sight of god , &c. who will have all men to be saved . 2. was it god's will , that when he brought israel out of egypt , that their carcases should fall in the wilderness ? if it were not , then he wanted a degree of blessedness . was it god's will that adam should fall , and bring himself and his posterity into so many miseries ? if not , god was not most blessed , because he failed of his end. if you say , it was god's will that adam should fall , and that israel must fall in the wilderness , you had as good tell us , that god has decreed all the evil actions that men do , and that they must do them , else god cannot be most blessed , because he should fail of his end , if these evil actions were not done . this is his logick , let him look to it . but , 3. what i conceive to be truth concerning free-will , i will give you a short account from what i have formerly published in a little catechism , where in page 21. i put these questions and answers following . — what mean you by the third part of repentance ? answ . i mean , first , a boly loathing of sin , because it is of the devil , 1 john 3. 8. and because god hates it . and because christ died because of it . 2. to abstain from the act of sin , in desire , word , and deed , as much as possible . god saw their works , that they turned from their evil ways . break off thy sins by righteousness : repent ye therefore and be converted . this is to bring forth fruits meet for repentance . quest . hath man any liberty of will , and any measure of power thus to hate and forsake sin ? answ . 1. by the bounty of god , man hath some liberty and power this way . he is not chained to his sins of necessity . chuse you this day whom you will serve . to day if ye will hear his voice , harden not your hearts . mary hath chosen the good part . 2. man's infirmity in the exercise of this liberty and power is so great , that he is not to depend upon this liberty and power , but upon the strength of god in the use of them , hos . 14. 2. 2 cor. 3. 5. now let any sober christian tell me , how it is possible to make the will of man an imperial majesty out of my words , that is , a majesty that hath no peer ; for no less than such a slander would serve mr. firmin to fix upon us , especially upon my self ▪ for what cause he is so inveterate , i know not . but come , mr. firmin , will the doctrine of a chief man of your own please you ? if so , you and i may agree in his sentence . thus he speaks ; austin as well as pelagius ▪ calvin as well as the arminians ; the dominicans as well as the jesuits , all generally maintain that man hath free-will . origen is condemned by epiphanius , for saying that man had lost the image of god ▪ — this image is two-fold , 1. natural , i. e. reason and free will. 2. qualitative , or ethical , i. e. our holiness , and this is lost , and by grace restored . no man of brains can deny , that man hath a will naturally free ; it is free from violence . — it 's a self-determining principle , but is not freed from evil dispositions ▪ mr. baxter's preface to his call to the vnconverted . i think i need say no more to a wise man : and i am sure , this is as much as any wise man among us will say in this matter . conclvsion . mr. firmin seems displeased at the multitude which will be saved ; if my opinion be true , that all dying infants shall be saved : i will give you his own words . i pray ( saith he ) whose opinion are you of , huberus ? the promiscuous salvation of all . or are you of caelius secundus curio ' s opinion , that the number of the elect and saved is much greater than the number of the reprobate and damned ? whether you , or these , or christ , be truest , ( mat. 7. 14. few find it ) the day of judgment will determine . here , sir , you shew your spirit . but for answer : although i know that god is not willing that any should perish , but that all should come to repentance , 2 pet. 3. 9. 1 tim. 2. 4. yet i see too much cause to fear , that but very few of the many , to whom god is so long suffering to lead them to repentance , will consider his goodness therein : and that the far greater part will despise the riches of god's goodness , and treasure up unto themselves wrath against the day of wrath , and revelation of the righteous judgment of god. and in this very respect , i fear , some old professors , such especially as have been teachers of others , and yet have not learned either civility , or honesty , in treating those who differ from them in opinion . as to the text , mat. 7. 14. blessed be god , infants are in no danger by it , they may all be saved , and so the number of the saved be much the greater by them ; for seeing they none of them are walking in the broad-way which leads to destruction ; they must needs go the way which leads to life , tho as it is a strait way of faith and obedience , and many crosses for christ's sake , they can neither seek nor find it ; yet their redeemer hath found it for them , and has declared their right to heaven , and will therefore in his own time and way , bring them to the enjoyment of that kingdom which he hath prepared for them , as well as others . but here also we see , you are unkind to many dying infants , whilst you are sending them to hell with those who walk in the broad-way . finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a41781-e150 * it was not the bp of norwich , for i never saw him , nor did i ever dispute any doctor out of the room , as mr. f. hath both foolishly and falsly reported in print , with no less than six other false and very frivolous tales , in half a page ▪ notes for div a41781-e950 dr. willit hexap . in gen. p. 196 , &c. notes for div a41781-e1670 * you bid me understand what that fallacy ignoratio elenchi is , and here you are fallen into that fallacy your self . notes for div a41781-e3610 * in the book of wisdom , we read , that wisdom preserved the first father of the world , and brought him out of his offence , chap. 10. 1. which is agreeable to the canonical scripture , luke 3. 38. because adam is called the son of god. dr. willit . hexap . in gen. p. 56. see diodat . upon gen. 17. 14. who is also clear in this point . the ministration of publick baptism of infants to be used in the church, or, a disswasive from baptising children in private by edm. arwaker ... arwaker, edmund. 1687 approx. 54 kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from 20 1-bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : 2005-10 (eebo-tcp phase 1). a25966 wing a3900 estc r23012 12492569 ocm 12492569 62403 this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons 0 1.0 universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase 1, no. a25966) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set 62403) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, 1641-1700 ; 303:9) the ministration of publick baptism of infants to be used in the church, or, a disswasive from baptising children in private by edm. arwaker ... arwaker, edmund. [5], 44 p. printed by j. leake for edward poole ..., london : 1687. reproduction of original in union theological seminary library, new york. errata: p. 44. marginal notes. created by converting tcp files to tei p5 using tcp2tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between 1473 and 1700 available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the 25,363 texts created during phase 1 of the project have been released into the public domain as of 1 january 2015. anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. 5% (or 5 pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of 100 instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level 4 of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p5, characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng infant baptism. 2003-04 tcp assigned for keying and markup 2003-05 spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images 2005-03 judith siefring sampled and proofread 2005-03 judith siefring text and markup reviewed and edited 2005-04 pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion the ministration of publick baptism of infants to be used in the church . or , a disswasive from baptising children in private . by edm. arwaker , m.a. despise ye the church of god ? 1 cor. 11. 22. london , printed by j. leake , for edward poole , at the ship over against the royal exchange in cornhil . 1687. imprimatur . jo. battely rrmo p. ac dno dno wilhelmo archiep. cant. à sacris domesticis . july 12 , 1686. ex aedib . lamb. to the right honourable and right reverend father in god henry lord bishop of london . my lord , among the unhappy irregularities that crept into our church in the licentious days of vsurpation , none has proved so difficult to be reformed as that of baptizing children in private houses , when there is no necessity requiring it ; and that too with the publick form of administration . for not only they who are dissenters from us in the main , but ( alas ! ) too many who profess themselves of us , and would take it ill not to be reputed very good sons of the church of england , persist obstinately in this error ; and what is worse , are apt to express a high resentment , if the clergy deny to comply with them , while they at the same time refuse to hear the church . but it is our happiness , that their obstinacy , tho' great , cannot exceed or tire the pious industry and unwearied diligence of the religious prelacy , to reduce us to that primitive decency and order for which our church has been ever as venerable as eminent . of this your lordship is a very signal instance , whose zeal to free our church from this vile corruption is proportionate to that authority which you deservedly bear in it , and has gone a great way so successfully in the cure of that part which you more immediately adorn and govern , that we are almost assured to see it perfected there by your lordship's hand ; as we are encouraged to hope it will be through the kingdom , by the healing applications of its chief and worthily most reverend metropolitan . and since what is acted by our governours in a higher sphere , commands our imitation in our inferior stations ; i , who am not in circumstances of manifesting my obedience in a reformation , can only testifie my good inclinations towards it , in a weak endeavour of another kind , the following treatise that takes sanctuary under the vmbrage of your lordship's name . for which , while i offer it to your lordship , as an humble acknowledgment of former favours , i must beg the additional one of your pardon ; and i cannot despair of that for any thing that wishes well to a design you have still been forward to promote : and in that have added to many others , one more grand evidence of our happiness in your presidency over us , which labors to reduce our practice to the purity and splendor of those rules that ought to influence and direct it . but , my lord , i fear to offend as much by a tedious apologie , as by the unworthy present i would excuse ; and shall make only this for the imperfections of this piece , that the author has so much of the cares , and so little else of the world , as not to be supplied with leisure and books for an elaborate performance , such as might be fit to offer to the churches service , and your lordship's patronage ; than which there is nothing more in the ambition of , my honoured lord , your lordship 's most dutiful son , and most devoted servant , edm. arwaker . ministration of publick baptism of infants to be used in the church . as it is an affliction that through a strange deservency of the primitive zeal , in the exteriour worship of our god , so solemn and eminent a part thereof , as the publick celebration of the sacrament of baptism , should be so much neglected ( not to say oppos'd ) as to stand in need of patronage and assertion ; so it is an advantage to engage in the defence of a practice as antient as christianity it self , and as generally received ( till of late ) without contradiction or dispute . since therefore that devout and excellent office labours under such unhappy circumstances , and that no other pen has been purposely employed to redress the grievance : one of the meanest of its admirers , has ventur'd to expose his weakness for its cause , rather than suffer it by appearing friendless , to fall into more contempt . let him not be thought herein to presume on his own abilities ( which he is conscious how small they are ) since he espouses a cause so arm'd with truth , antiquity and reason , that it cannot be a sufferer , ev'n by the weakest management : which makes him imitate the hebrew champion , accosting the philistin giant , and despise the armour of fallacious sophistry , as sufficiently guarded and secur'd by the nakedness of that truth which he maintains . and he cannot doubt , but that the better it is discern'd , it will have the greater prevalency , and in spite of opposition , become more than conqueror . for the conviction then of such who refuse to bring their children into the place of publick worship , the church , to receive their initiation into the christian religion , by the sacrament of baptism , there in the face of the congregation ; but either through obstinacy , pride , or ignorance , contend to have that office perform'd within their houses : it may perhaps be pertinent to proceed in this method , and propose to their consideration . first , the rubrick of our church prefix'd to the office of publick baptism of infants . secondly , the consent in this particular , between the eastern and western churches . thirdly , the ground of this rubrick , upon what strength of antiquity and reason it relys . fourthly , the power of the church to make this injunction , and the indispensable obligation that lies on them to obey it . and lastly , to answer the most material objections , that are usually made against the performance of this duty . but here while the necessity of bringing children to the church , to receive their baptism , is asserted , it must be understood to mean it with a supposition of their being in a condition fit to be carried abroad ; for in case of sickness and extream necessity , where there is danger of their dying unbaptiz'd , the church has allow'd (g) st. john the baptist performing it in publick , and the apostles afterwards , when they were at liberty so to do : for it was done in the assemblies of the people , for the most part , which is one main thing requisite to make any performance publick ; and then it was done too in the publick places of worship , such as were consistent with the state of christianity at that time , the other great requisite to compleat a publick office. thus justin martyr , who flourish'd (h) early in the church , speaking of the manner of administring baptism , says , (i) they ( meaning the persons to be baptized ) are carried by us to the place where the water is , and are regenerated the same way that we had been before : and again he says , the name of the god and father of all things is mention'd , and we invoke that alone ; leading the person to be baptiz'd to the (k) laver or place of washing ; by which laver if he does not mean the baptistery or font ; yet he intimates the publick performance of the office , and is elsewhere positive , that baptism was administer'd in the publick assemblies , as we shall hereafter find him cited by the magdeburgenses , which sufficiently makes for the purpose of this discourse . for if in his time there were no public fonts , it was because the church was not then in a setled state ; and the church by performing those offices of baptism , and the like , in the places , and at the times of their more solemn meetings , did sufficiently declare those times and places to be the properest for such administrations . and that in the settlement of the church , they were determin'd to them , will be manifest from (l) st. athanasius who flourish'd in the year 340. who making an admiration of the villany of those times , says , was ever the like fact committed , even in time of war and persecution ? and this unparallel'd wickedness was the burning the churches and baptisteries : by which it appears , not only that fonts for publick baptism were then in use , but that they had been of much antienter standing ; for had there not been such places long before , how ridiculous had it been for the father to say , that the like wickedness had never been committed ( for the interrogation here is much stronger than a negative ) and to wonder at it as a new and unheard of thing . neither was the use of fonts unknown in the latin church , for (m) tertullian , of earlier date than athanasius by above a hundred years , (n) says , that going to the font , they ( the persons to be baptiz'd ) first made in the church , and under the hands of the chief ruler or hierarch , as (o) dionysius calls him , an open renunciation of the devil , &c. and (p) la cerda in his notes upon that place , says , it was not impertinently said by tertullian in the church : for this abrenunciation was not made at the font , but in the church , and then they went to the font ; which , as we shall have occasion to observe hereafter , was sometimes built without the church . and that this may not seem an objection against bringing children to be baptiz'd in the church , let it be remember'd , that though the baptism was sometimes administer'd without the church ; yet the examination and abrenunciation were always made within it . and st. greg. nazianzen in the fourth century tells us , that the person baptiz'd was led to the altar , saying , the (q) station in which we presently stand after our baptism , before the (r) great and holy place , represents the glory of our future life . and st. ambrose , a latin father of that century too , has much to the same purpose , thus , (s) afterwards the holy of holies is open'd to you . and in another place (t) that you may understand what is the second tabernacle , into which the priest introduced you , &c. to conclude this quotation of the fathers with st. chrysostom , much of the same age , we find him telling the persons to be baptiz'd , (u) that tho' they who at their death are initiated by the sacred mystery of baptism , might obtain equal favor and grace with those who did not defer their regeneration ; yet they had not an equal will and inclination , neither was their preparation ( which he much insists on ) equal . for , as he goes on , the first were made partakers of that sacrament in their beds , the others receiv'd it in the arms and bosom of the church ; where we find he directly opposes the baptism in the church to the clinick baptism , superstitiously used by some . which sort of baptism was so detested in the primitive times , that he who receiv'd it , was never , to be admitted into holy orders ; and it was objected to (w) novatus after his surreptitious consecration . and this will give us the true sense of that (x) council , where after mention of easter and pentecost for the administration of baptism , it follows : therefore we command all men , reclaim'd from their errors or ignorance , by these present admonitions , to wait with their infants at the church , that they may injoy the festivity of the lawful time ( meaning easter , &c. ) and be regenerated by the holy sacrament of baptism ; whereby they may , if they live , be capable of the honour of executing the priestly office. if these are not sufficient instances of this kind , (y) cocceius will afford the enquiring reader more . to proceed then from the fathers to the councils , we shall find in the third council of (z) constantinople , in the year 680. this express prohibition of baptizing any , not only in private houses , but even in the oratories in them . thus baptism must by no means be administer'd , in any private oratory within a house : but let those who being purg'd from their impurities , are thought worthy of illumination , be brought to the catholick churches , and there let them injoy this benefit : and the non-observation of this is punish'd with deposition of the clergy , and with separation in the laity . which canon is agreeable to that novel in the authenticks of * justinian , wherein he says , that it was establish'd by an antient law , that no one should perform divine offices [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ] in a private house : which law the emperor there confirms with a new interdiction , making both the owners of such houses liable to a penalty , and the houses themselves to publick taxes . and he obliges the patriarch to see this law put in execution under the forfeiture of fifty pounds in gold ; and he gives the reason of the penalty , because it was a matter about which the emperor was studiously careful , as tending to preserve the unity of the church , and to prevent clandestine doings . tho' afterwards the emperor leo in his (a) constitutions allows baptism to be administer'd in private oratories , ( which oratories however were consecrated places ) but not elsewhere . and in another (b) council in 845. 't is decreed , that no priest should presume to baptize any where , but in the baptismal churches , and at the times appointed , unless in case of sickness or extream necessity . however it may not be impertinent to strengthen what has gone before , by some testimonies , which because they come from persons either indifferent , or profest enemies to any thing that had an appearance of superstition , will be unquestionable . (c) cassander the pacifick catholick , a man of much moderation and indifferency , who in one part of his writings , professes , it is his business to avoid partiality (d) and enquire into the truth of things ; tells us , that with general consent it was receiv'd in all churches , that only at certain times , ( that is easter and pentecost ) baptism was solemnly administer'd , and that only in the church by the bishop and priests , & c. and neither children nor the adult were baptiz'd in private , but in imminent danger of death , and when by reason of sickness , they could not without hazard of their lives be brought abroad . and (e) hospinian , who has given sufficient proof of his not being superstitiously affected , acknowledges that histories bear witness that the christians , after the apostles time did meet together , especially in times of persecution , in coemiteries , that is , places set apart for the interment of the martyrs , and that there they celebrated their religious assemblies . and he tells us out of (f) theodoret , that in the persecution under george of alexandria , when the adversaries of christianity prevail'd , and had got the churches into their possession , the christians were forced to meet in the coemiteries to perform their devotions ; and cites (g) onuphrius , who says , that because the primitive fathers were wont to assemble at the tombs of the martyrs of sacred memory , on the anniversary day of their suffering , the large and capacious places of prayer for their publick assemblies , lying near those burial places , were call'd coemiteries also . and he adds of himself , that the roman pontifices or bishops , were wont to celebrate stations , that is , all publick acts of their episcopacy , among the sepulchers of the martyrs ; and therefore , says he , these coemiteries were to the christians as temples and places of prayer , in which the bishops call'd their synods , and administer'd the sacraments . and to confirm his assertion , he tells us of an edict of (h) galienus , who lived in the year 256. extant , wherein the son commands the coemiteries which valerian , the father , had taken from the christians , to be restor'd to them , that they might meet to perform their religious worship there . so that whoever denies the antient custom of publick administration of baptism , must either make baptism no sacrament , or yield that there are more than two , or disprove this great authority , as well as several others . for (i) chamier , as little a friend to novelty , or superstition as hospinian , acknowledges this laudable practice of baptizing all persons in publick , and cites st. (k) ambrose saying that the catechumens being dismiss'd , he gave the (l) badge of their profession to some who desired it , or rather who were qualified for it , ( as some have critically distinguish'd between the catechumens and the competentes ) in the baptistery or font of the church . and the same author cites vasquez , saying . we use no other ceremony in giving the name , only to ask the sponsors by what name the person brought to the church to be baptiz'd , is called ? and again he quotes (m) st. cyrill , mentioning the baptistery , and telling his auditors that they and 7th century ; and they quote (y) paul the deacon , alledging that their baptism in private houses was very rare , and that only when necessity compell'd them to it . and this was continued down to the 13th century , as whoever pleases to peruse those writers , may be satisfied . this might be reasonably hoped to suffice for the antiquity on which our rubrick is grounded ; as to the matter of fact , that baptism was from the first institution still administer'd in public , that is in the publick congregation , and the publick place of worship , the two (z) essentials requisite to make the baptism publick ; and that as soon as the church began to be settled , and to obtain places for religious worship ; there were still set apart and erected places for the peculiar administration of baptism , according to that of (a) walafridus : the honour of religion encreasing through length of time , and success of affairs , the splendor of ecclesiastical constitutions grew to a just hight : and the cebration of the mystical laver of baptism became more solemn , and therefore spacious fonts were set up in which the priests did administer that sacrament of faith , with very splendid ceremonies : and tho' it was the custom at first to build these fonts without the church , as (b) paulinus says , severus did ; yet afterwards , says (c) durantus , they began to be brought (d) into the churches , near the porch . and accordingly (e) greg. turonensis shews , that the font in which clodoveus was baptiz'd by rhemigius , was placed in the church . this is the antiquity that gives occasion to our rubrick , and the reasons are as prevalent . two we have mention'd in the rubrick it self , and even those are by the wise and serious consideration of the church , thought sufficient to procure an admonition to the people , that it is (f) most convenient that baptism should not be administer'd but upon sundays and other holy-days , when the most number of people come together : ( which still argues the place of administration to be the church ) the first reason respects the parties baptiz'd , that they may have witnesses of their initiation ; the latter , the persons present , that they may be reminded of their own profession and vow made to god. the first has been ever thought so necessary by the church , that in such cases of necessity wherein it allows of private baptism , yet it still injoyns the children so baptiz'd to be brought afterward into the church , and there to be received in publick , upon sufficient testimony of the validity of their private baptism in the use of all the essentials to it . and it must certainly be a great satisfaction to any so baptiz'd in private , upon necessity , and consequently in haste , to be assured that nothing essential to his baptism was then omitted , and that the church had such satisfaction thereof , that it added those exteriour rites and accidentals that are the ornaments and appendages of a due administration of that holy sacrament : the omission of which rites the church never did allow , but upon some urgent necessity ; and not then upon any account but the uncertainty of their future state who leave the world without this badge of their christianity . and for this reason 't is , that the primitive fathers did so press the dispatch of baptism , that the persons to be baptiz'd , whether adult or infants , should be brought to church , lest sickness should deny them the happy opportunity of coming thither , and allow them only an office , as well homely for the insolemnity , as for the privacy of its performance . wherefore , says (g) st. greg. nazianzen , let us be baptiz'd to day , lest to morrow it be the effect of force ; let us not defer a blessing , as if it were an injury , till sickness or some other danger compel us to embrace it : and a great deal more he has to the same purpose . wherefore we may conclude this with that of (h) durantus ; parents are therefore to be admonish'd and exhorted , that as soon as they can without danger they bring their children to the church , and take care that they be baptiz'd with the solemn ceremonies thereof ; especially since by reason of their tender age they are in infinite hazard of being prevented by an early death . which argues , that besides the benefit of having the congregation present to testify their being received into the number of christ's church , it is an honor and advantage of it self , to have so decent and solemn a reception . the second advantage mention'd in the rubrick is that of the congregation's being put in mind of their baptismal vow , by hearing it repeated , and it is not a small help to the performance of a promise to have frequent memorandums of it . how readily , not to say how willingly , we forget our vows of obedience and new life , is but too obvious in our daily violations of them ; and it is an act of the highest charity in those who remind us of them . so that whoever with-holds his child from the publick baptism , deprives the congregation of a charitable office , which might perhaps have an influence on some or other there , in order to amendment and salvation . but besides these reasons , there are others of no less weight and moment hinted in the office of publick baptism of infants , tho' not mention'd in the rubrick ; and those are , first , the veneration due to the sacrament it self , as a main part of god's holy worship : and , secondly , the just regard and deference due to the churches , as places set apart and consecrated to his service . that baptism is a great and solemn part of god's holy worship , it is to be hoped , will not need much proof to any one who has had the honor and advantage to receive it . they who hold more sacraments than two , have yet allow'd in the title of the (i) entrance and in-let to the rest . 't is that sacred office wherein we solemnly dedicate our selves to god : wherein we enlist our selves souldiers under the banner of our saviour , and receive that (k) military badge that distinguishes us from his enemies , and take those (l) oaths that oblige us to fight his battels manfully . 't is the solemn celebration of god's worship wherein we express our esteem of it to be such , that we dare bid defiance to the devil for its sake : that we renounce the pomps and glories of the world , and neglect the pleasures and allurements of the flesh , the gratifying our appetites and inclinations to embrace it . 't is that solemnity wherein we declare our unfeigned belief of , and assent to all the articles of the christian faith ; and wherein we stipulate and vow to perform a ready and sincere obedience to all the commands of our creator . and sure an act of such general concern and universal benefit , an act of so much piety and perfection , should be performed in the solemn and religious manner : and solemnity we know is never perfect but in publick ; neither does religion tend so much either to the glory of god , or the edification of our brethren , when retir'd and private , as when conspicuous and eminent . besides , if we consider the nature of this sacrament of baptism ( the only rule , according to an (m) eminent person in our church ) whereby to determine the manner and circumstances of any action , we shall find never to be performed properly but in publick , because it is of a publick nature , as it concerns the whole society of christians ; and therefore is as well to be done in the presende , as by the authority of the church , when the celebration may be most publick and awful . for where can it be so but in the midst : of the great congregation ? the publick assemblies for religious worship held by the authority of the church in places separated by of all sacred offices . among which , * walafridus strabo tells us that it has a more than ordinary claim to that of baptism , which , saies he , is more properly celebrated there ; because we read , that before the tabernacle stood the (x) laver , and before the temple the (y) brazen sea , and the ten lavers , in which both the priests that were to offer , and the flesh of the sacrifices , were washed ; and it is very becoming those who enter into the profession of christianity to be regenerated in the temple of christ their saviour . none being fit to enter into the church , saies (z) another , who is not first cleaned in the water of baptism . not without great ground and reason therefore did the council of (a) ilerda , in the year 524. decree that every priest that could not procure a font of stone , should have a convenient vessel for the administration of baptism only , which should not be at all carried out of the church . nor with less discreet consideration , nor without great authority of fathers and councils , is it prohibited in the (b) clementins ; to any priests ; to dare to administer the sacrament of baptism in any halls or chambers , or other private houses , but only in the church , in which there , are fonts particularly for the purposes . unless to the children of kings , or upon such an emergent necessity , by reason of which the persons cannot , without certain danger , be brought to church to receive it . and then if we weigh this seriously , (c) and take tertullian's maxim with us , that in those things which the scripture neither commands nor prohibits , that is to be observed , which custom has confirmed , as proceeding from unquestionable tradition ; we shall not condemn our church for enjoyning , but our selves for slighting a duty so primitive and practicable ; a duty which 't is sure was never opposed by any church , nor by any sect that own'd the sacrament it self : but has ever been esteem'd decent and convenient by those who would not allow it to be requisite or of moment . but if it were neither an ancient , a religious , nor usefull practice ; if it were novel , indifferent and insignificant , yet being enjoyn'd by our mother the church , the holy catholick church in general , as well as the church of england in particular , it is obligatory to us who are members of the whole , and especially of that part : to some of whom ( with shame we must let the reader know it ) this paper is design'd , since it of late appears too usual with some of those to dispute the commands of the church , in this particular , and obstinately refuse obedience to them . wherefore it will be requisite to proceed to shew the churches power to make injunctions of this kind , and the indispensability of our obedience to them . in the catholick doctrine of the church of england contain'd in the 39 articles , it is asserted , (d) that the church hath power to decree rites and ceremonies , not repugnant to the word of god. now that the bringing of children to be baptiz'd in the church , has no such repugnancy , is undeniable , and will be thought so , till it appears wherein ; and then the churches authority to enjoyn it , will be evident from the practice of the apostles ( for from the beginning it was so ) in forbidding men to be (e) cover'd in the church , and obliging women to keep silence there ; in rejecting prayer in an unknown tongue ; and commanding all things to be done decently and to edification ; and several other instances , among which were those things , of which st. paul says , the rest will i set in order when i come . and we have an harmony of (f) confessions among all the protestant churches acknowledging the same . and the learned (g) chamier answering the objection of vasquez , that the protestants did some things which had no mention or command in the scripture ; as for instance , their custom of bringing their children on sundays , or other publick days , to be baptiz'd at church when the congregations were assembled ; defends the practice , and calls it an honest and decent circumstance of celebrating that sacrament : in things of which kind , says he , quis negavit ecclesiae extra scripturam licere ? now this power being granted , it will necessarily follow , that what our mother does so lawfully command , we must readily and submissively obey ; for in refusing , we sin as much against heaven that has given this commission to the church , as against its delegate , our grave and reverend mother ; and however we may arrogate to our selves the specious title of her sons , are no longer worthy to be called so . for by our refractory and stubborn carriage , we destroy her being as a church , whence we derived our own as christians . there is no body can subsist without oeconomy , nor oeconomy without subordination : for as there is variety of offices to be performed , so there are different parts and agents adapted to the several imployments and operations ; some for the authoritative , and others for the executive part. for as st. paul (h) says , if the whole body were an eye , where were then the hearing ? so ( 't is sure they should ) be the more afraid to alienate the property , and sacrilegiously rob god of his interest to transfer it to another : and when they meet with any that were witnesses of their dedication , they cannot without shame and confusion let them see how they have contradicted the good intentions of their parents , broke all the promises of their sureties , and frustrated all the prayers of the congregation made in their behalf . the third instance is in the prayer of consecration ; where it is no small argument to prevail for god's assent to the petitions offer'd in behalf of the child to be regenerated , that he would regard the supplications of his congregation , and comply therewith in sanctifying the water to the mystical washing away of sin , and in granting that the child ready to be baptiz'd therein , may receive the fullness of his grace , and ever remain in the number of his faithful and elect children . where we see the church has a great opinion of the prevalency of the prayers of the congregation ; esteeming its united force a kind of holy violence , that does as it were wrest blessings from the almighty , as an ancient (l) author intimates the design of the assembly to intend : telling us , that the whole sacred assembly is gathered to assist at , and celebrate the safety and deliverance of the person baptiz'd , and to return thanks for it to the divine beneficence . but still this congregation whose prayers are thought thus efficacious , must be such an assembly of which the minister may safely and truly say , thy congregation ; for there can be no validity in the prayers of any but god's congregation ; and that is none of his , which is not assembled in the place which the church has appointed , and by its allowance and authority . now private houses were never allow'd of by the church , much less commanded to be the places of publick baptism ; and they who so illegally assemble there , are as much guilty of disorder in the church , as they who meet in prohibited numbers or places , are of a riot in the state. the fourth instance is the receiving the child ; when the minister , having first named and baptiz'd him , and still holding him in his arms , uses these words , as it were of matriculation , we receive this child into the congregation of christ's flock , &c. which reception does not only mean the whole body of the universal church , but as well that representative part thereof then present , and consenting to it as proxy for the whole . and the minister's embracing the child , is for the same end as the imposition of hands in baptism was of old ; which (m) durantus tells us signified the reconciliation , by which he that was without the church , a child of wrath , according to our catechism , was in the church received into the church's favour , and made a child of grace . and besides all this , our church for farther prevention of the performance of this publick office in private , has in cases of necessity , prepared and injoyn'd a private form of baptism , to be administred to those , who by reason of sickness cannot be brought abroad without peril of their lives . which we find by an antient (n) council to be an indulgence , only on supposition of invincible necessity ; and rather than such who cannot be safely brought to church , should die unbaptiz'd , they may have this sacrament administred to them at home ; but this still with an injunction , that if they out-live their sickness , as soon as they are fit to be carried abroad , they should be brought to (o) church , that those prayers and rites which were before omitted in the office , may be there publickly supplied : which is a most convincing argument of the church's sense in this matter , as well as of its determination ; and should be sufficient of it self to oblige every genuine and obedient son to acquiesce therein . but since , by sad experience , we find many refractory and undutiful ; the next and last thing will be to enquire into their objections against this duty , or pleas for not performing it . as for objections against it , there are truly none ; for to urge that st. john the baptist , and the apostles baptiz'd their converts every where , in lakes , and ponds , and rivers , in houses , fields and prisons , does not at all make against the administration of baptism now in churches only . for what they did then in the infancy of the church , was suited to its circumstances , and it was then impossible to have large assemblies , and much more churches for that purpose , till christianity gain'd ground and obtain'd in the world ; and to argue that baptism ought not to be administred in churches , because it was not so at first , is as ridiculous , and inconsequent , as 't would be to say , that we should not live in houses now , because 't is known the israelites , who were god's people , dwelt at first in tents . for their not having churches and fonts for baptism , was not because they were unfit , or unnecessary , but because they could not have them ; as (p) beda says of the ancient britains , that in the beginning of christianity there , where their churches could not be so soon erected , the people were generally baptiz'd in rivers ; but we find that quickly discontinued , and fonts provided for that purpose . to all which there needs only this be added , that (q) he who said every day was the lord's , and every hour and time fit and convenient for baptism , yet did not affirm the same hability of place ; for he could not so well say of place as of time , if it is conducing to the solemnity , it is insignificant as to the grace conferr'd ; for tho' it does not tend to the esse , yet it does to the bene esse of the sacrament . for it has been generally allowed , that god is more immediately present , upon general occasions , in the places of his publick worship than elsewhere ; his presence being there in st. augustin's opinion , sacratior & commendatior : who likewise affirms it to be a very convenient providence , that god should confer his favours in that place where his name is praised ; and that man should receive them there where he does praise it . but not to insist longer on this point , let us proceed to consider the other reasons pretended for baptising children at home ; or rather why their parents are unwilling to bring them to the church . and indeed , among the richer sort we find it to be nothing but a piece of state . for if their children , by reason of indisposition of body , cannot be brought abroad , as some pretend , why are they not then contented to have the private office of baptism administered to them , according to the direction and practice of the church ? which certainly they would desire , if that were the true or only reason . and if they think there is no significancy or virtue in the ceremony of the publick office , why do they then so eardestly contend to have it used in private ? by which they sufficiently discover , that not the indisposition of their childrens bodies , but of their own minds makes them neglect the church , celebrate a sacrament at home , for which the publick is the only proper place . that they ought not to be complied with herein is certain ; because god is no respecter of persons : and tho' we find it sometimes indulged to the children of kings , it was only on supposal of their having consecrated chapels in their palaces . and for all this , we find both princes themselves and their children baptiz'd in the church : many examples whereof are cited by (r) paul the deacon ; particularly advaldus . son of agilulfus , king of the longobards , baptiz'd by the bishop of modoctia , in the church of st. john the baptist ; and the son of heraclius , baptiz'd by sergius , in the (s) blacerne at byzantium ; of which son of heraclius (t) zonaras relates , that the whole senate of constantinople was invited to his christening : but the fond mother still more tender than her infant , dares not trust her darling with the god that gave it her ; but thinks its being carried to the church to its baptism , would occasion its speedier exportation thither to its funeral . how cowardly she is in this , and how much the weakness of her faith resembles that of her sex , let st. (u) greg. nazianzen tell her . and it would be happy if all parents would weigh the great advantage of having their children early consecrated to god , before wickedness can obtain a prepossession in them , against the seeming inconveniency , which the tenderness of their age may suffer . but that which is state and indulgence in the great , changes shape , and pretends to be shame in those of meaner rank and fortune ; and they usually alledge their backwardness in bringing their children to be baptiz'd in the church , to proceed from their inability to have things in decorum , as to their own apparel , and the entertainment of the company , as is usual . or else that they would not be thought at so low an ebb as not to have wherewithal to gratifie the minister for his attendance ; which by the discourse of several of them appears to be the received notion of their circumstances who bring their children to church to be baptiz'd , as if they did it to save charges , since for that there are no fees due . to answer the first there needs little else be said , than that the prodigality of some ought not to oblige others , nor be proposed for their imitation ; much less be a reflection on them for avoiding it , than which nothing can more justifie their prudence and sobriety . that such treats and entertainments were disapproved of by the church , we have the testimony of st. (w) greg. nazianzen ; who thus informs his auditory : 't is ill to say , where is the gift that i shall offer for my baptism ? where are my new cloths ? where shall i have provision for the entertainment of my gossips ? do not in a matter of such moment as that sacrament , regard things so minute and trivial . suffer not your self to be withdrawn from it by an affection so base and abject . this sacrament is above those things that lye within the prospect of the eye : make your self your offering : put on christ for a garment , and nourish me with an honest and praise-worthy conversation . thus i , thus god desires to be entertain'd . there is nothing in esteem with god which is not in the power of a poor man to bestow upon him : that even in this , those of meaner fortune should not be discouraged , as not having wherewithal to vie with the great and wealthy . indeed , in other things there is disparity between riches and poverty ; but in this , he that is readiest and chearfullest , is still the richest and the most acceptable . there might several councils be produced wherein to avoid levity , and intemperance (x) baptism is forbid to be administered in the afternoon , but in case of extream danger ; and where 't is likewise forbid to make great feasts and banquets after it ; which even in 1549. was censured as a heathen custom , and they that used it were termed parum christiani ; and wherein 't is expresly said (y) , that a due reverence may be shewn to that great mystery , it is earnestly advised , that baptism may not be administered in the afternoon , when men are charged with wine and delicacies ; but in the morning , in the time of divine service , and that with great sobriety and devotion : and 't is there recommended to the civil magistrate to suppress all feasts and banquets afterwards , or at least to reduce them to a moderation becoming christians . so that not to follow this ill fashion , is so far from being a disgrace to any one , that 't is as well our prudence as our duty to avoid it . then for the other excuse , of being unwilling to be thought unable to pay the minister , 't is idle and impertinent : because nothing can or ought to be demanded for the administration of baptism , according to the rules of the church . nor should the clergy accept of any fees for baptizing children in private houses , since if it is any part of their office or duty , as in cases of necessity , they are both by religion , and reason , and express (z) canons forbid to receive any thing : and if it is no part of their office ; ( as where there is no necessity ) the performance is incanonical and unjustifiable , and therefore so far from meriting a reward , that it incurs a reproof . tho' it has been objected to some , who argued for the baptism of infants with the publick office , to be administred in the church , and refused the administration of it in private houses , but in great necessity , and then in the private form ; that several good and eminent divines were not so strict and scrupulous , but did often condescend , upon request , to administer baptism in the publick form in private houses , and to children under no indisposition of body , and consequently no necessity to be baptiz'd at home . made out , till there are more sufficient reasons given on that side than there can be produced to the contrary : and it will be hardly found , that ever the bishop was permitted to tolerate the administration of baptism in private , unless in case of necessity ; and then not in the publick form , but where there were (b) oratories to do it . and if some eminent divines transgress this rule , that should be no argument for others to follow them in an error , any more than the defects and infirmities of men of quality should be for their equals or inferiors to endeavour to resemble them . but their being taken notice of , and urged so unhappily by the vulgar , should put them in mind of a speedy reformation . and that the people may not expect this compliance , nor the clergy use them to it , let it be seriously consider'd , that this expectation has been still imputed to the pride and contemptuousness of the laity ; and their compliance , to the flattery and obsequiousness of the clergy . let it be consider'd how great an indecorum it is to perform a publick office , that is of publick nature , in private ; and a private office in the publick form. let the late date of this custom in our church be look'd into , and the occasions of it . it proceeded either from the scruples and disputes about ceremonies , when to avoid them , those who were no lovers of them had their children baptiz'd at home by such conscientious conformists as could dispence with their rule , says (c) dr. sherlock ; or else it ows its original to the fatal time of usurpation and impiety , when there was no king in our israel ; and when all god's solemn worship was interdicted as prophaneness : then the orthodox , who would not comply with that prevailing schism , were forced to retire and perform those acts in private , which they could not be allow'd to do in publick . and sure the very remembrance that this use was introduced by such means , should make it odious and abominable to all who have the honesty , the loyalty , or the religion to abhor the practice of those days . then let us not contend for a custom begun on so unhappy an occasion : let not that be our choice now , which was then the effect of tyranny and compulsion ; but let us consider how great an affliction it was to the sons of the church to be denied the priviledge of performing that office as well as others publickly ; and how gladly they would have done it if permitted . and if even in these our days we were interdicted the administration of publick baptism , and driven from the church and the congregation , how would we grieve and complain , what an injury and injustice should we think were offer'd us , and how zeaous would we be to injoy the benefit which now we slight ? but if neither god's glory , nor our own advantage quicken us in this duty , let at least emulation move us , that we may not be out-done by our neighbours of the french and dutch congregations ; whose zeal in this particular of bringing their children to their churches to be baptiz'd , tho' at great distance from them , will rise in judgment against us for our neglect . no length of way , nor scarce any indisposition , can prevail with them in scotland to keep their children from the church , but they carry them several miles to be baptiz'd , that it may be done in publick ; and they thought it an inexpressible favour when a toleration was granted them for private baptism in case of great necessity . that it was usual heretofore for mothers when they found their children ill , to run with them to the church that they might be baptiz'd , we find by st. (d) augustin's question , where proving the guilt of original sin derived from parents to their children , he says , if infants are wholly innocent , why then do their mothers run with them to the church when they are sick ? 't is sure the learned grotius takes it for granted , that baptism always was or ought to be publickly administered , by that question and answer in his (e) catechetical institutions ; where the catechumen being ask'd the place of his baptism , affirms it to be the place of religious assemblies , meaning the church : and he calls the administration of it there , an antient (f) custom , a law establish'd and confirm'd by old and long observance , as the original words import . all which consider'd , we see how justly the church injoyns the (g) curates of every parish to warn the people , that without great cause and necessity , they procure not their children to be baptiz'd at home in their houses , and there to use a form distinct from that of publick baptism . this then being so lovely , and of so good report , if there be any virtue , if there be any praise , if there be any zeal for god's glory , and the edification of his church , let us think thereon . to recommend which to the serious consideration of the people , that they may not persist in their unreasonable expectation of compliance from their ministers , against such prohibitions , obligations , and engagements to the conorary , nor conceive a prejudice against them for refusing it ; but that both of them may yield a ready and chearful obedience to the church in performing its commands , and celebrating the great and venerable sacrament of baptism with all due grandeur and solemnity , is the whole design of this small tract : which if it may conduce in any thing to the end intended , will by that success become a most ample and agreeable compensation to the author . finis . errata . pag. 10. lin. i. r. coccius . p. 16. l. 19. r. walafridus strabo . p. 20. i. 22. r. 't is that . p. 21. i. 8. r. the most solemn . p. 35. i. 15. r. and celebrate . i. 27. r. modoetia . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a25966-e400 (g) st. matt. 3.6 (h) an. dom. 150. (i) apol. 2. pro christianis : 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , &c. (k) 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . (l) epist ad omnes orthodoxos . (m) anno dom. 203. (n) de coron . mil. cap. 3. (o) de hier. eccles. (p) nec otiosè praemissum à tertulliano in ecclesia . (q) 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , &c. orat. 40. in sanctum bap. (r) 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . ibid. (s) de initiandis , cap. 2. post haec reserata tibi sunt . sancta sanctorum . (t) lib. 4. de sacrament . cap. 1. (u) homil. 19. catech. ad illuminandos : 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 (w) euseb. hist. eccles. lib. 6. cap. 42. (x) concil matisconense , can. 3. (y) thesaur . cathol . artic. 11. baptisteria . (z) can. 59. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , &c. * collat. 5. tit. 13. nov. 58. praefat. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , &c. anno 552. (a) constitut. 15. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , &c. (b) concil . meldense , can. 48. (c) expos. de authorit . consuet . baptisand . infant . &c. pag. 694. (d) lib. de officio pii viri , & c. (e) de orig. templorum , cap. 6. (f) lib. 2. cap. 14. (g) appendice ad platinam de coemiteriis . (h) baron annal . hist. eccles. (i) panstrat . cathol . tom. 4. iib. 5. cap. 15. (k) epist. 33. (l) symbolum . (m) cyrill , hierosol . cat. mystagog . 1. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , &c. (y) lib. 18. reium roman . (z) sherloch . rel. assem . part 2. chap. 4. pag. 289. (a) walafrid . strab. lib. de reb . eccles. cap. 6. (b) epist. 12. ad sulp. severum . (c) lib. 1. de rit . eccles. cap. 19. (d) prope 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . (e) hist lib. 1. cap. 21. (f) rubrick before publick baptism . (g) orat. in sanct. bapt. (h) de rit . eccles. cathol . lib. 1. cap. 19. (i) sacramentorum janua . (k) tesseram militarem . (l) signa juratoria . (m) sher rel. assemblys . p. 291. * lib de reb . eccles. cap. 10. (x) exod. 30.18 . (y) 1 king. 7. 39. (z) isidor . cap. 7. in cant. canticor . (a) apud gratian , de consecrat . distinct. 4. (b) de baptis . & ejus effectu . tit : 15. (c) tertul. de corona militis (d) art. 20. (e) 1 cor. 11. 4 , 7 , 14. (f) confess . helv. art. 13. cap. 22 , 23 , 24. basil. art. 10. bohem cap. 15 , 17. gal. art. 32. belg. art. 32. aug. art. 4 , 57. 15. sax. art. 20. soev . cap. 8. 14. wittemb . cap. 27. 31. (g) cham. panstrat . cathol . tom. 4. lib. 5. cap. 15. (h) 1. cor. 12. (l) dionys. areop . lib. de ecclesiast . hierarch . (m) durant de ritib. eccles. cathol . lib. 1. cap. 19. (n) concil . vernense . capit . 7. tent . 756. (o) rubr. in the office of private baptism , & rituale romanum , ordo supplendiomissa super baptisatum . (p) lib. 2. angl. histor. cap. 14. (q) terful . carthag . (r) de gestis longobardor . (s) a place where a church was built to the blessed virgin. (t) tom. 3. pag. 68. (u) orat. in sanct. baptisma . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 (w) orat. in sanct. baptis . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 &c. (x) concil . colon. 2. cap. 15. censora pro abus . reformand . (y) concil . mogunt . 4. cap. 16. (z) capit. herardi archiep. turonen . cap. 31. (b) concil . constantinop . 3. can. 3. (c) concil . provin . colon. cap. 7. de administrat . sacrament . concil . colon. 2. decret . 15. (d) aug. in psal. 51. enarratio . (e) grot. mystagog . (f) ibid. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; (g) rubr. before the office of private baptism . a dialogue between a pædo-baptist and an anti-pædo-baptist containing the strength of arguments offered on both sides at the portsmouth disputation, with the addition of a few more arguments then ready to be offered in vindication of infant baptism / by samuel chandler and william leigh. chandler, samuel. 1699 approx. 54 kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from 15 1-bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : 2004-03 (eebo-tcp phase 1). a31661 wing c1931 estc r35977 15584719 ocm 15584719 103948 this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons 0 1.0 universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase 1, no. a31661) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set 103948) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, 1641-1700 ; 1588:33) a dialogue between a pædo-baptist and an anti-pædo-baptist containing the strength of arguments offered on both sides at the portsmouth disputation, with the addition of a few more arguments then ready to be offered in vindication of infant baptism / by samuel chandler and william leigh. chandler, samuel. leigh, william. 27, [2] p. printed for a. chandler ... and sold by a. baldwin, london : 1699. reproduction of original in the british library. created by converting tcp files to tei p5 using tcp2tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between 1473 and 1700 available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the 25,363 texts created during phase 1 of the project have been released into the public domain as of 1 january 2015. anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. 5% (or 5 pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of 100 instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level 4 of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p5, characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng infant baptism. 2003-07 tcp assigned for keying and markup 2003-07 apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images 2004-01 judith siefring sampled and proofread 2004-01 judith siefring text and markup reviewed and edited 2004-02 pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a dialogue between a paedo-baptist , and an anti-paedo-baptist : containing the strength of arguments offered on both sides at the portsmouth disputation : with the addition of a few more arguments , then ready to be offered , in vindication of infant-baptism . by samuel chandler , and william leigh . london printed for a. chandler , at a glover's shop , over against the white-hart-inn , in aldersgate-street , and sold by a. baldwin . 1699. to the reader . because dr. russel , or some friend of his , did a while since disgrace the press , with some scraps of their narrative , stuff'd with nonsense and partiality ; nay , and by its title did delude the vulgar with an imagination , that it contained the true state of the portsmouth disputation ; and the same , how unjust soever , being cheap , hath been scatter'd throughout most parts of the kingdom : therefore by advice of our brethren , from various parts , we have offered ( so far as this small tract would admit ) the strength of arguments then urged on both sides , omitting names and personal reflections , apprehending this way may be most grateful to persons seriously inquisitive . we have also annex'd a few arguments , which with others , were then ready to be urg'd , had the company 's satisfaction requir'd , and the approaching evening , admitted . if this fall into the hands of the learned , we request them to remember , that it is designed for persons of meaner capacities , that neither understand , ornaments of speech , nor affect terms of logick . if it fall into hands more illiterate , yet willing to receìve divine truths , we request of them , that they would weigh it in the balance of scripture and sanctified reason ; yea , and we request of god , that they may . sam. chandler , will. leigh . question i. whether , according to the commission of our lord and saviour jesus christ , adult believers only , are the proper subjects of baptism , and not infants ? asserted by anti-paedo-baptists . the controversy is , whether christ's ministers ought ( 1. ) to deny baptism to the infants of professed christians . ( 2. ) to baptize those at mature age , who by vertue of descent from professed christians , were baptized with a small quantity of water , in infancy ? the first argument offer'd at the disputation by the anti-paedo-baptists , i consider last , because there it will come to be more fairly answered . anti-poedo-baptist . i prove then , that no infants can be the subjects of baptism according to christ's commission . argument 1. no infants can be made disciples by the ministry of men ; therefore no infants can be the subjects of baptism , according to christ's commission , mat. 28. 19. go teach , &c. ( or , disciple ) all nations , &c. paedo-bapt . i deny your whole argument ; and ( 1. ) i assert , if they could not be made disciples by the ministery of men , yet this text would not exclude them from baptism . and then , ( 2. ) i assert , that they be made disciples by the ministery of men. anti-paed . christ puts teaching before baptism ; therefore it goes before , and consequently infants are excluded . paedo-bapt . this is a weak way of arguing . the word is placed before in scripture , therefore the thing signified must go before . were this true , then baptism must go before confession of sin in the adult , because it 's said , they were baptized , confessing their sins ▪ mat. 3. 6. nay , sanctification and preservation in christ , must go before calling , iude 1. but the contrary is evident to all . but farther , infants may be disciples , and therefore , by your own argument , may be baptized ; they may be taught in their parents , as well as the kohathites keep the charge of the sanctuary in their parents , from a month old , numb . 3. 28. or levi pay tithes in abraham , heb. 7. 9. or the israelites in david's time rejoice in their ancestors on the banks of the red sea , ps. 66. 6. there did we rejoice . &c. i. e. as considered in our parents . anti-paed . but how can this be by the ministery of men ? paedo-bapt . ( 1. ) by the preaching of men , parents may be constrain'd to resign their all to god , and so their infants . ( 2. ) they are immediately discipled by men's ministery , when parents and ministers concur in their solemn dedication to god by baptism . anti-paed . but teaching and learning , make the relation between master and scholar . paedo-bapt . the contrary is most true ; the master doth care for and command ; the scholar is subject , in order to instruction ; and resignation of the scholar , or his parents for him , and acceptance of the master , constitutes the relation ; and by virtue hereof , the scholar is as much obliged to submit to his master , according to his capacity , before he touches a book , as when he hath learned seven years . if teaching were the ground of this relation , then persons long since dead , might be our governors . iob 8. 8 ; 10. the former age , and their fathers shall teach thee . nay the beasts of the field may be our masters too , iob 35. 11. who teacheth us more than the beasts of the earth , &c. we may learn of them , and yet be our own governors ▪ but christ's disciples are resigned to him , in order to their being both governed , taught , and disposed of by him , according to their capacity . anti-paed . argum. 2. paul did declare the whole counsel of god , and yet did never declare the baptism of infants ; therefore infant-baptism is no part of the counsel of god. paedo-bapt . neither ever did paul declare , that the baptism of believers children ought to be delay'd , till they can personally profess their faith ; therefore thir practice being such , is no part of the counsel of god. take the argument to your self , and make the most of it . 2. but i hope to prove infant-baptism from paul's words . 1 cor. 7. 14. rom. 11. but pray , is nothing part of the counsel of god , but what stands on record as delivered by paul ? anti-paed . nothing ; and therefore not infant-baptism ? paedo-bapt . if nothing , then how great a part of the history of the old world , of the succeeding patriarchs , of the ceremonial law , of prophecies , gospel-history , and other sacred matters in holy writ , is no part of the counsel of god ? the truth therefore is , paul might declare infant-baptism an hundred times , in his vast number of sermons and pious discourses , and yet the holy ghost might not see fit to insert it , as delivered by him , this doctrine being sufficiently established in other new-testament texts . but farther , these words were spoken to the church of ephesus : and all that remains on record of what he spake to them in two years , acts 19. 9 , 10 , 11. is but the epistle to the ephesians , and this in acts 20. and dare any say , that he never declared it to them , because it 's not herein contained . here , because some anabaptists , from dr. russel's false narrative do report , that we pretended at the disputation , that six leaves of paul's writings containing infant-baptism , may be lost , therefore we will ( tho otherwise 't were impertinent ) give a true representation of that matter . the doctor 's weak evasions , did force us to make our answers evident beyond all contradiction : and thus we argued . if there were a controversy , whether such an author did use such an expression , and his writings were produc'd , if six leaves of these writings were lost , none could determine that he had no such expression , because it might be contained in those six leaves . the controversy is , whether paul ever did by preaching , writing , or discourse , declare infant-baptism . we cannot say we have all his writings ; we dare say , we have not the hundredth part of his sermons and discourses : who can then determine , that he never did any way declare infant-baptism to these ephesians . anti-paed . arg. 3. christ's commission doth expresly shew , who are to be baptized : but it doth not expresly shew that infants are to be baptized : therefore infants are not to be baptized . paedo-bapt . 1. pray take your argument back again , and get rid of it as well as you can . christ's commission doth expresly shew , who are to be baptized : but it doth not expresly shew , that adult persons , if baptized in infancy , are to be baptized again : therefore adult persons , if baptized in infancy , are not to be baptized again . but , 2. i deny that infants or adult persons , are distinctly expressed in mat. 28. 19. for both are included in the word nations . anti-paed . but the commission doth express disciples ; baptizing them , i. e. disciples . the greek word for nations , is of the neuter gender , and the word for them , is masculine ; therefore disciples being masculine , must be understood . * paedo-bapt . 1. if they must be understood ; then they are not express'd . you have confuted your self . 2. but i assert , that them , tho masculine , may refer to nations , tho neuter . for instance , let the learned see acts. 15. 17. acts. 21. 25. and elsewhere . the greek informs a school-boy the reason hereof . 3. but suppose disciples were understood , i have proved , that infants may be disciples , in answer to your first argument , and shall yet more fully do it , when i take the opponency . anti-paed . but , mark 16. 16. believers are the only subjects of baptism ; therefore infants are not . p. bapt. the text says no such thing : and if it did , infants may as well be believers , imputatively in their parents , as the kohathites infants keep the charge of the sanctuary , or levi pay tithes in abraham , num. 3. 28. heb. 7. 9. anti-p . i deny that the parent 's faith was ever imputed to the child . p. bapt. parents faith may be imputed to infants , for their enjoying external privileges , as well as the parents coming corporally , may be imputed to them for christ's blessing , mat. 19. 14. suffer little children to come unto me , &c. when others ( probably parents ) brought them . yea , the parents faith also , we find imputed to infants , heb. 11. 29. compar'd with exod. 14. 22. by faith the children of israel , ( without limitation ) being 600000 men , besides children , ( and many thousand children there must be ) passed through the red sea. all the children of israel , passed by faith ; i. e. the faith of miracles ; and therefore infants , their parents faith being imputed to them . anti-p . but it might be moses his faith , not their own . p. bapt. no , see heb. 11. 27 , 28. moses his faith is expressed as distinct from theirs , just before ; and here theirs as distinct from his . anti-p . but why may not the parents baptism be imputed to infants , as well as their faith ? p. bapt. 1. for the same reason that the baptism of the israelitish parents in the cloud and in the sea , was not imputed to their infants ; all that were under the cloud ( and therefore infants ) were baptized , 1 cor. 10. 1 , 2. this was a type of the gospel-baptism . 2. because infants are capable of baptism , the subject being therein passive . but they are not capable of a personal act of faith ; if they were , it would be expected . but further ; you may as well conclude , that no infant shall be saved , because believing goes before the word [ saved ] , as that no infant must be baptized , because believing goes before the word [ baptized . ] but the weakness of this argument , drawn from placing the words , i have shewn before . anti-p . a person already taught , must profess his faith before he be baptized ; therefore an infant that cannot profess his faith , must not be baptized . says philip to the eunuch , acts 8. 37. if thou believest with all , &c. p. bapt. this instance shews indeed , that an adult jewish proselyte must confess his faith before baptism ; but neither this , nor any one word of god , doth shew , that infants must be deny'd baptism , because they cannot do what is required of adult persons . * this eunuch was probably a proselyte of the covenant , and therefore a member of the jewish church . the infants of all such proselytes ( if they had any ) were church-members with themselves . now , must these poor infants , immediately upon their parents faith and baptism , be shut out of god's church , of which they were members before , because they make no profession of their faith , which is impossible for infants to do ? anti-p . arg 4. if the apostles never did baptize infants , then the baptism of infants is not according to christ's commission . p ▪ bapt. 1. i shall quickly shew , that the scripture doth authorize the practice of infant-baptism , and thence 't will follow , that they did baptize infants ; and they might baptize thousands , tho the scripture ( which contains not the hundredth part of what they did ) doth not expresly tell us so . 2. but this argument also will fall on your selves . thus , the scripture doth not tell us , that the apostles did deny baptism to any christian's infant , or administer it to any adult person descending from a christian , ( tho from the death of christ , to the death of st. iohn , was near 60 years ; in which time , thousands of christian infants must become adult , ) therefore your practice being such , is not according to christ's commission . 3. but we have some probable instances of baptizing infants : whole housholds were baptized . i only consider the jailor , acts 16. 33. he and all his were baptized straitway . all his , upon his believing . anti-p . but all his house believed . p. bapt. the original is , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and he rejoiced in , with , or through all his house , he having believed in god. * not a word of any believing but himself , yet he and all his are baptized . anti-p . but the word was preached to all that were in his house , which of necessity supposeth them able to hear . p. bapt. 1. no more than those words , mark 16. 15. go preach the gospel to every creature , supposeth stones able to hear , because stones are creatures . all in one place , and every in the other , is to be understood with limitation , according to the capacity of the subject . 2. but i add , it might be preached to some as included in their parents . pray give me the like probable instance for your practice . anti-p . christ himself was the son of a believer , yet not baptized till adult . p. bapt. but the virgin mary was a jewish , not christian believer , in christ's infancy . the very first commission for christian baptism , was not then given : christ himself was born a jew ; and we all assert , that jews tho never so pious , ought not to be baptized , till they profess the christian faith ▪ christ , as to the time of baptism , was not imitable by us : if he were , then none , how pious soever , must be baptized till about thirty ; nor baptized at all , unless circumcised at eight days old. anti-p . you demand of us , a prohibition of infant-baptism ; i demand of you a prohibition of salt , cream , oil and spittle , such as the papists use . p. bapt. when you can shew , that these are as plainly included in the word [ baptize ] as infants are in the word [ nations ] we shall farther consider what you say . now according to my promise , i consider the doctor 's first argument , which will fairly introduce the opponency . anti-p . arg. 5. christ hath no where required any of his ministers to baptize infants , therefore the baptism of infants , is not according to his commission . p. bapt. i assert , christ hath required his ministers to baptize the infants of professed christians . and now taking the opponency , i argue , from mat. 28. 19 , 20. teach all nations , baptizing , &c. arg. 1. those of nations ought to be baptized , that are not expresly or consequentially excluded by the word of god ; therefore the infants of professing christians ought to be baptized . you have not been able hitherto to prove them excluded ; therefore my argument stands good against you . anti-p . what is not expresly commanded in an institution , is consequentially forbidden . p. bapt. 1. then the baptism of adult persons descending from christians , not being expresly commanded , is consequentially forbidden . 2. i deny , that all things pertaining to an ordinance , must be express'd in the institution for that ordinance . the institution for the passover doth not express the cup , which yet was piously used by christ himself , luke 22. 17. because good consequence did warrant it . your selves acknowledge previous examination and stated prayer necessary to the right administration of baptism , and have recourse to good consequence for your warrant : nay , consequence it is that doth oblige you to baptize an adult person ; you do not count these forbidden , because not express'd in the institution , why then should you count infant-baptism forbidden , because not express'd , when we offer good consequence for it . p. bapt. arg. 2. some infants are members of the gospel-church visible , therefore they ought to be baptized . anti-p . all members of the gospel-church visible , are made so by baptism ; therefore , unless you will admit of re-baptizing , they ought not to be baptized . p. bapt. baptism is the solemn investing sign ; the infants of believers , are church-members before baptism , but by baptism , they are publickly owned as such . the infants of the iews , were church-members before circumcision : the israelites while in the wilderness , tho uncircumcised , are called the church , acts 7. 38. yet they must be recognized as such by circumcision . a king is king before he is crowned , but at coronation , he is 〈◊〉 as such . anti-p . the pharisees were church-member● , yet 〈◊〉 denies them baptism ; therefore church-membership gives no right to baptism . p. bapt. these were members of the jewish church ▪ such , without credible profession of faith and repentance ▪ were not to be baptized . but we speak of members of the christian church . anti-p . infants are not christian church-members p. bapt. i prove they are , from mat. 19. 14. suffer little children to come unto me , for of such is the kingdom of heaven . if by the kingdom here , must be meant the christian church * visible , then little children must be part of it . anti-p . i deny that the christian church visible , is there meant . p. bapt. if the kingdom of heaven here , signify neither the laws nor promises of the gospel , nor the graces , nor heaven's glory , then it must signify the christian church visible . but it cannot signify either of the former ; therefore the last , i. e. the christian church visible . anti-p . it signifies the kingdom of glory . p. bapt. then it must either signify the happiness , or subjects of it . if the happiness , then the words must run thus ; of such little children is the happiness of heaven , which is nonsense . if the subjects , then the words must run thus ; of such little children , are the subjects of the kingdom of glory . which cannot be , because every infant that goes to heaven , immediately upon his expiration , his infancy is drop'd , and he enters perfect into glory . [ here the anti-pedo-baptists had not a word to answer for a considerable time , tho the whole company did earnestly wait for it : and they were provok'd to give it . ] at last , this reply was given . anti-p . this text hath not a word of baptism in it . p. bapt. we before proved , that members of the christian church have a right to baptism , and now have proved . that believers infants are such members . the conclusion is easy ; therefore such infants ought to be baptized . anti-p . when were any , who were baptized in infancy , excommunicated upon their apostacy , tho so many prove wicked ? p. bapt. we are not discoursing how baptized persons ought to be managed , but who ought to be baptized . yet , to answer directly , as infants grow up , their infant state ceaseth , and so their infant church-membership with it : and if , when they become adult , by vicious practice they renounce adult church-membership , they are no more church-members than excommunicated persons : and such need no excommunication . anti p. if infants without understanding , may be disciples by the ministery of men , the beasts of the field may . p. bapt. i have shewn before , how infants may be disciples , and by the ministery of men , in answering your first argument . pray shew me how beasts may ; have beasts the seeds of reason ? are they capable to be justified , sanctified , glorified ; nay , to keep the charge of the sanctuary ? were they fit to be brought to christ for his blessing ? but i proceed further to prove them disciples . argum. 3. the infants of believers , are called disciples , acts 15. 10. therefore they ought to be baptized . why tempt ye god to put a yoak upon the necks of the disciples , &c. the yoak was circumcision : upon infants as well as others , according to moses his law v. 5. and custom v. 1. * would they have put this yoak ; therefore infants , as well as others , are here called disciples . anti-ped . infants cannot be meant , because those that ▪ are here called disciples , are called brethren , and such as are taught . p. bapt. and if infants are church-members , ( as i have proved ) they are brethren , and may be taught in their parents . but ( 2. ) i deny , that all who are here called disciples , are called brethren v. 1. or are said to be taught . those on whom the yoak was like to be put , according to moses his law , v. 5. and custom , v. 1. are here called disciples . now , you know moses's law and custom , did require the circumcising of infants . nay , this custom , especially of circumcising infants , is expresly contended for by judaizing christians , acts 21. 21. the word for custom , is the same with that acts 15. 1. anti-p . but how do you know any infants were among these ? p. bapt. from v. 22 , 23. which tell us , that the christians of antioch , syria , and cilicia , ( and therefore a great number who must have infants ) were concerned in this matter . anti-p . but v. 9. they are said , to have their hearts purified by faith. p. bapt. and cannot god give infants the seed of faith , and purifie their hearts by so doing ? may he not purge out old principles by putting in new ? ( 2. ) but those v. 9. are the gentiles of caesarea , not those at antioch , and therefore not the disciples here meant , as the context will shew . anti-p . but circumcision cannot be the yoak here intended , because infants did bear circumcision ; but this neither they , nor their fathers , were able to bear . p. bapt. this expression signifies no more , than that it was a very burdensome yoak . thus prov. 30. 21. for three things the earth is disquieted , and for four , which it cannot bear ; and yet you may see in the context , that they are such as the earth hath born to this day ; but it is burdened with them . so prov. 18. 14. anti-p . but circumcision binds to keep the whole law , therefore the whole law is here intended . pedo-bapt . then i am sure circumcision , one of the prime and most painful parts of the law , and the only part particularly mention'd ▪ must be intended , and therefore infants must be some of those disciples on whom they would impose this yoak . question ii. whether , according to our lord's commission , baptism ought to be administred by dipping , plunging , overwhelming only , and not otherwise ? anti-p . i affirm and offer this argument : christ hath appointed it so to be administred only : therefore it must . i prove this , first , from the signification of the word baptize . lexicographers , say , it signifies to dip. p. bapt. they say , it signifies also to wash ; and this is the usual scripture sense of the word : and scripture is its own best expositor . now , to say , it signifies to dip in those texts where the ordinance is mentioned , and which are especially the subject of our present controversy , is but barely to assert , and not to prove the thing in question . therefore let us first go to those places where the word is mentioned , and the ordinance not intended , and consider other texts afterwards . anti-p . i say , the scripture sense of the word is to dip. p. bapt. i have seven places at hand wherein the word is used , and the ordinance not meant ; in none of which is dipping necessarily included . ( 1. ) . mark 7. 4. except they wash , ( greek , be baptized ) they eat not . were they dip'd over head and ears when they did eat ? no , they were zealous for the traditions and customs of their elders , and therefore did imitate their two great prophets , elijah , and elisha . see 2 kings 3. 11. it was elisha's custom , to pour water on the hands of elijah . therefore , in all probability , they had water poured on their hands . and why may not a person be baptized with pouring water on his face , as well as with pouring water on his hands ? ( 2. ) in the same verse , they hold the washing ( greek , baptisms ) — of tables , or beds , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . did they plunge their tables or beds into water ? ( 3. ) v. 8. washing ( greek , baptisms ) of cups , i. e. from ceremonial pollution . burial is not the thing here intended , but washing . and washing the hands was commonly us'd to cleanse from ceremonial pollution : therefore pilate , in compliance with the iews custom , washeth his hands , when he would declare himself pure from the blood of christ. ( 4. ) luke 11. 38. the pharisee wondred that christ had not first washed : greek , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , was not first baptized . did he wonder , that christ was not plunged over head and ears before dinner ? the greek word , to a letter , is the same with that mark 1. 9. and pray , why may it not signify applying a little water , in mark 1. 9. as well as in luke 11. 38 ? ( 5. ) heb. 9. 10. diverse washings : ( greek , baptisms . ) such as those , exod. 30. 19 , 20 , 21. aaron and his sons are bid to wash ; i. e. their hands and feet . num. 19. from the 8th to the 19th . the word in the original , signifies purely to wash , yet th● apostle calls these baptisms . if washing the hands or feet be baptism , why may not washing ▪ the head ? ( 6. ) baptized in the cloud , and in the sea , 1 cor. 10. 2. not dipped , be sure , for they went through the sea as on dry ground . is any dipp'd in the sea , when he hath dry land under him , and only the droppings of the rain and sea ▪ upon him . i must take ▪ liberty to dissent from the reverend author of the english annotations , in this matter ; i never heard , that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , much less 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , did signify plunging under water , unless the water were applied , not by drops , but in a great quantity . ( 7. ) acts 1. 5. i will baptize you with the holy ghost , and with fire . is it proper to say , i will dip you with the holy ghost and with fire ? anti-p . but acts 2. beginning . the holy ghost came upon them , and there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind , and filled the house , &c. so that they were as in a fish-pond , ( says causabon ) overwhelmed with the holy ghost . p. bapt. but it was the sound that filled the house : the resemblance of the holy ghost , were the cloven tongues of fire , and certainly they could not be overwhelmed with these . and may not a man be baptized with water , when poured on him , as well as with fire , when descending only in cloven-tongues upon him . here are seven places , ( and more might be added ▪ ) where the word is used , and not one of them doth necessarily include dipping . anti-p . but it signifies to dip , in scripture : he that dippeth with me in the dish , mat. 26. 23. p. bapt. the word there is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , not 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 : and pray remember , the holy ghost never expresseth the ordinance by the word bapto , but always by baptizo . anti-p . but in those places where the ordinance is mentioned , the word must signify to dip ; as mark 1. 9. christ was baptized of iohn in iordan , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , into iordan . he could not be washed into iordan ; therefore he must be dipped . see various places , where 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signifies into , 1 tim. 1. 15. iohn 3. 17. luke 4. 16. p. bapt. i shewed before , that the greek word there for baptized , to a letter , signifies in luke 11. 38. washing , and that when applied to the hands only . and now , whereas you produce three places , where 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signifies into , i can produce more than three times three , where it signifies in . see mat. 2. 23. mat. 10. 41. mark 3 ▪ 16. luke 11. 7. mark 5. 34. &c. therefore the words may ▪ be fairly render'd , he was washed of john in jordan . anti-p . but compare with this , mat. 3. 16. christ , when he was baptized , went up out of the water ; therefore he must be dipped . p. bapt. the greek preposition for out of , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , may be render'd from : see mat. 24. 31. luke 1. 78. mat. 12. 42. and those words , mat. 3. 16. may be render'd , christ went up from the water . now , i offer a fair paraphrase of these texts , consistent with our way . iohn preached in the wilderness near iordan ; ierusalem and all iudea came to him , and christ among others . the multitude being so great , he goes to iordan ( as he did another time to enon ) takes a step into the water ; those that are baptized , do the like , ( it being refreshing rather than afflicting in that hot country . ) and there iohn doth baptize or wash them , by pouring water on them , and then they go up out of or from the water , which alway runs in a lower place . this is much more probable , than that iohn or the apostles , acts 2. should dip ( according to your way ) hundreds , it may be thousands in a day : that person had need have sinews of brass , that could ( according to your custom ) bear the weight of , lay down , and raise up so many in so little time : besides his limbs and body must be soundly soak'd . i am sure the words will well bear our sense . and probability is much stronger on our side , than yours . anti-p . but the eunuch is a clear instance for us , acts 8. 38 , 39. they came to a certain water , went both down into , and came up out of the water . p. bapt. this instance doth you not the least service . the greek prepositions for to , into , out of , may be render'd fairly ▪ by , to , from. and without the least violence , the text may be thus translated . [ they came by a certain water , and went both down to the water , and came up from the water . anti-p . but could not water be brought to them in the chariot , if a little were sufficient ? p. bapt. do you think there was convenient room in the chariot to place themselves in a praying posture , or that they were so irreligious , as not to pray at all ? anti-p . but baptism doth represent a burial , rom. 6. 4. col. 2. 12. buried with him in baptism , &c. therefore it must be administred by dipping . p. bapt. it is one thing to be buried with christ in baptism , and another for baptism to represent a burial . a person is obliged in baptism , to die and be buried with christ , to sin and the world ; but it 's not necessary that baptism should represent these . in the lord's supper we are obliged to this burial ; doth it therefore follow , that the lord's supper must represent a burial ? ( 2. ) but supposing , ( not granting ) that baptism must represent a burial , pouring water on the face , the most remarkable part of the body , doth represent a person 's being under water , and raising him up ; represents the resurrection . anti-p . this is like burying with a turf on the head. p. bapt. what then ? a person may be buried as well with a turf on the head , as * feast abundantly at the lord's supper , with a bit of bread , and a sup of wine ; a small quantity of the element is sufficient for its sacramental use . anti-p . but let us keep strictly to the significancy of a burial . p. bapt. then i am sure , the baptized person must not go into the water to his wast . do dead men walk into the grave , half bury themselves , and wait for the sexton to bury their head and shoulders ? anti-p . but the whole body is under water , when a person is baptiz'd in our way . p. bapt. but the administrator dips but one half . and , doth he speak truth , when he tells the world , that baptism is dipping the whole body under water , and that he doth , according to his sense of the word , baptize , i. e. dip the whole body under water , when he dips but one half ? and dare he to affix the name of father , son , and holy ghost , to an untruth ? do you think , iohn the baptist and the apostles , did so ? and if not , then you have not the least precept or example , for your practice . is our way attended with this inconvenience ? but further , baptism is designed to signify the pouring out of christ's blood , spirit , and blessing ; the application of this blood , which is expressed by sprinkling * to signify and excite to a submissive frame of spirit . is your way so well adapted to all these ends ? can any be thrust into the spirit or blessing of christ , or are persons like to be so composed ( supposing them adult ) when striving for life , especially in frost and snow , as when a little water only is poured on them ? anti-p . but many learned paedo-baptists acknowledge , that our way is most agreeable to scripture . p. bapt. 1. will you stand by the authority of these men in other matters ? if not ▪ why would you have us in this ? ( 2. ) do any of these say , that to wash , is not the new-testament sense of the word ? or , do they prove us in the wrong ? we take not men's opinions upon trust , but tryal . ( 3. ) who of those authors have not adhered to that , mat. 12. 7. i will have mercy and not sacrifice , to justify their baptizing with a little water in these cold countries . ( 4. ) will not the opinion and practice of your brethren in holland , argue as strongly against you , as the opinion of these men , had their practice been dipping also , do against us . ( 5. ) will not the opinion and practice of so many thousand men , great for learning and piety , at this day , argue more strongly for us , than these mens opinion only , without their practice , do against us . anti-p . but all you can pretend to for your way , is probability ; it may be so , and it may not . p. bapt. we acknowledge , the new-testament hath not fixed the quantity of water , and therefore we must have recourse to a moral precept , mat. 12. 7. i will have mercy , and not sacrifice : and this carries us beyond probability , even to a certainty ; which is this ; that we must so administer it as shall consist with the safety of the subject . christ , v. 2 , 3. justifies david's eating the shew-bread , from these words , tho a positive ritual law were therein broken . then certainly christ will justify the practice of applying a little water in these cold countries , where life might be endanger'd by dipping , especially when neither gospel precept , nor example , doth in the least oppose us . nay , and knowing that christ hath appointed for the strongest christians , a sacrament as pleasant as eating and drinking , we cannot imagin , that he would appoint one so very sharp , as plunging in frost and snow , for the weakest . i proceed to offer an argument or two more . p. bapt. i argue from 1 cor. 7. 14. else were children unclean , but now are they holy . arg. the infants of believers , are holy , therefore they have a right to baptism . anti-p . legitimacy is there meant by holiness , and therefore this doth not entitle them to baptism . p. bap. legitimacy cannot descend from believers , as believers , but from married persons , as such , whether they believe or no. but this holiness descends from believers , as believers , and therefore it cannot be legitimacy . ( 2. ) i deny that ever the word holy is so used in all the new-testament , tho we have it many hundred times , and therefore you force this sense upon it to serve a turn . ( 3. ) if legitimacy were meant , then the apostle would speak false . the words would run thus [ if the unbelieving wife be not sanctified by the believing husband , your children would be bastards . ] no , their being husband and wife , would secure their children from bastardy : nay , and then all the idolaters and murderers in the world , if legitimate , would be holy. anti-p . but holiness is not a ground of baptism , if it were , then horses bells must be baptized , &c. zech. 12. 20. p. bapt. when you can shew , that bells were once church-members , that they have immortal souls , capable of pardon , through the blood and merits of christ , of going to heaven , &c. then we will baptize bells too . anti-p . but children are pure , or holy , as all things else , that a believer hath , are pure , i. e. for enjoyment . to the pure all things are pure . p. bapt. then i am sure legitimacy is not here meant , because , if a person that hath a bastard , be converted and he truly penitent , that bastard is also sanctified to his enjoyment , because all things are . but you ought to shew , that pure and holy are the same ; holy doth imply a dedication to god. but meat , which the apostle there speaks of , might be clean , as many creatures under the law , which yet were not dedicated to god. in short , the word holy is taken , as commonly it is in other places , and it includes a visible separation for god , and relation to him . thus the body of israel * and afterward of a gospel-church , are called holy * in many places . arg. 2. from acts 2. 39. the promise is to you , and to your children , &c. this promise the infants of penitent persons have a right to ; therefore they have a right to baptism ; v. 38. be baptized , &c. anti-p . the context doth exclude infants from the promise , and therefore from baptism . the promise is confin'd to those that the lord shall call. p. bapt. if 't were so , then peter just upon receiving extraordinary wisdom from heaven , would speak impertinently : whereas , he says , the promise is to you and to your children , and to all that are afar off , even to as many as the lord our god shall call : he might have left out their children , and they would easily have understood , that their children if once called , should be comprehended in those words , as many as the lord shall call . and farther , supposing your sense to be true , this paraphrase may justly be put on the words : [ you grown jews , and ye gentiles , when called , have a right to church-privileges ; but your poor infants , who for many hundred years past have had the same , are now through the gracious efficacy of christ's death , strip'd of it , tho they ( poor hearts ! ) never did the least to forfeit it . ] do you think this would have been a good plaister for their wounded hearts ? and can we imagine , that neither these , nor any tender parents of all the jewish converts , would have put in the least plea to god or man on the behalf of their poor abject infants ; or if they had , that the scripture would have quite buried it in silence , when we have their contests about circumcising infants , recorded ? anti-p . but children are not impertinently mention'd , for the jews had brought the guilt of christ's blood upon their children as well as themselves ; his blood be on us and our children . he drops a word of comfort to them , with relation to these children . p. bapt. yes , all these children , and therefore their poor infants , on whom they had brought the curse , as well as an those of riper years . say they , his blood be upon our children , whom we have a right in , and are concerned for . this they spake to spit their venom against christ , and the apostle chargeth these jews with it , v. 23. 36. now , the apostle makes the plaister as broad as the wound , and assures them , that upon their repentance , the promise , and therefore church-privileges would belong to their children , with themselves , even all on whom they brought the curse . supposing the church-membership of our infants , to be the main thing opposed by you , i offer this argument to prove it . arg. 3. the infants of converted jews were not cast out of god's church ; therefore the infants of converted gentiles , are not kept out . i prove that god did not cast out the former , therefore neither doth he keep out the latter . arg. 1. god did not cast out those infants in judgment to them , nor in mercy ; therefore not at all . not in judgment : for , how is it consistent with infinite grace to inflict so great a judgment , as deprivation of church-membership on those who never did the least to forfeit it themselves , and whose parents are god's peculiar favourites ? nor yet in mercy to those infants ; for how could he in mercy deprive them of so great a blessing * except he gave them a greater in its room ? but where 's that greater blessing vouchsafed to infants ? 2. not one privilege of the covenant of grace , was ever taken away by the death of christ , in whom all the promises were , yea and amen . therefore the church-membership of jewish infants , was not taken away by the death of christ : and if not by his death then not at all . i prove , that church-membership is a privilege of the covenant of grace . it must be of the covenant of grace , or of works ; but it cannot be of works ; therefore it must be of grace . no other covenant but that of grace , hath set up a church in the world , since the fall of man , or admitted any into it . anti-p . have all church-members then a right to the covenant of grace ? p. bapt. they have a visible right to it . we ought so in charity to judge , while they are rightful members ? none could justly exclude those jewish infants that were regularly circumcised from a visible right , to the promises of the covenant of grace : because circumcision made them debtors to the whole ceremonial law , gal. 5. 3. and god never yet divided the promises from the precepts of that law , and these together made up the covenant of grace . those who are visibly under the preceptive part of this covenant , have visibly a right to the promissive part of it . but the jewish infants were to be manag'd by it , and ( as they grew up ) obedient to it , and so were under the preceptive part of it . therefore , &c. now , if no part of the covenant of grace , and so neither this privilege , which the infants of the jewish converts had , were ever taken away , then such converts were never cast out of gods's church , upon christ his death , or their parents believing . and from hence we may conclude ▪ 2. that the infants of gentile converts , are not kept out : because jews and gentiles have the same privileges in christ. this , i suppose , no anti-paedo-baptist will deny ▪ col. 3. 11. other arguments might be offered , as the reader may observe in the abridgment of mr. chandler's sermons prefix'd to our impartial account . but a design of brevity forbids here to add them . anti-p ▪ but after all , the best arguments you can offer for infant-baptism , are but consequential . let us have somewhat express . p. bapt. shew me where an adult person is expresly commanded to be baptized . anti-p . adult persons making a credible profession of faith , are disciples of christ ; therefore brought to be ba●●●zed . p. bapt. and what is this but consequence ? such a one is a disciple , therefore , by consequence , he ought to be baptized . this argument is convincing . i add , a believer's infant is , in a scripture sense , holy ; a church member hath a visible right to that promise , acts 2. 39. a disciple , therefore he ought to be baptized . is not this arguement as convincing as the other ? pray , how would you clear up your right to future happiness ? anti-p . i would endeavour to prove myself a believer an holy person . and finding eternal life made over to such , and not finding upon the most strict enquiry , one word in all the book of god , to exclude such from it , i should conclude my right to future happiness , unquestionable . p. bapt. well then , i have proved the infants of believers , holy persons , church-members , disciples , and this in a scripture sense ; such i have proved entituled to baptism . and not finding upon the most strict enquiry , one word in all the book of god , to exclude them from it , i conclude their right to baptism unquestionable . arguments for the baptism of an unbaptized professing christian , nay , for the true christian's salvation , are consequential , and yet most convincing . why then should arguments for the baptism of believers infants be slighted , because consequential , when they are so many , and so clear from scripture ? postscript . reader , to prevent unjust reflections , our design in this dialogue , was not strictly to confine our selves to the words of the disputation , but to present thee with the strength thereof ; therefore something then omitted on both sides , are here inserted , others more intelligibly express'd ; and we think nothing of weight then deliver'd , is here concealed . and whereas other arguments here totally passed by , might be urged to good purpose ; particularly from rom. 11. ( some hints of which , are given in our impartial account , page 4. second edit . ) we hope , necessary confinement to brevity , will be a sufficient excuse to the ingenious . books printed for abr. chandler . an impartial account of the portsmouth disputation ; with some just reflections on dr. russel's pretended narrative . by samuel chandler , william leigh , and benjamin robinson . with an abridgment of those discourses that were the innocent occasion of that disputation ; and an healing preface to the sober anabaptists : the second edition ; with a postscript . price 1 s. the young scholar's guide through the english to the lattin or writing-school : wherein the nature and use of vowels , consonants , diphthongs , &c. are demonstrated by plain tables ; and the rules for dividing long words into syllables , made useful to children , by sutable examples to each rule ; by which , a child , that hath learned his letters , may be speedily taught to read english exactly , &c. with some useful observations in orthography . price stitch'd , 3 d. sacramental discourses on several texts , before and after the lord's-supper . by mr. iohn shower . of the duty of grace : or a discourse concerning the possibility and fear of its being past before death : shewing the groundless doubts and mistaken apprehensions of some , as to their being finally forsaken and left of god : with the dangerous symptoms and approaches of others to such a sad state : in four sermons ; from psalm 81. 11 , 12. by mr. iohn shower . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a31661-e290 * see our account p. 70 , 71. for further answer . * see our account pag. 74. see our account . * see our account , p. 73 , 74. * i refer it to the learned , whether this be not the fairest translation of the words . * thus the 〈◊〉 taken , mat. 13. 47. 48 ▪ 49. comp . with v 41 ▪ mat. 11. 11. mat. 25 ▪ 1. mat. 5. 19. see our impartial account , p. 32 , 33 , 34 , 35 , 36 , 37 , 38 , 39 , 40. see our account , page 37 , 38. see our account , p. 75 , 76 , 77. the greek word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , may well be rendred custom . notes for div a31661-e4290 see our account , p. 81. see our account , p. 78 , 79. * 1 cor. 5. 8. can't . 5. 1. * isa. 44. 3. heb. 12. 24. 1 pet. 1. 2. notes for div a31661-e6800 * deut. 7. 6. * 1 cor. 3. 17. * the great advantages of infant church-membership , see in our account , p. 8. infant baptism god's ordinance, or, clear proof that all the children of believing parents are in the covenant of grace and have as much a right to baptism the now seal of the covenant, as the infant seed of the jewes had to circumcision, the then seal of the covenant / by michael harrison ... harrison, michael, minister at potters-pury. 1694 approx. 85 kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from 33 1-bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : 2009-10 (eebo-tcp phase 1). a45681 wing h905 estc r9581 11809580 ocm 11809580 49497 this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons 0 1.0 universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase 1, no. a45681) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set 49497) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, 1641-1700 ; 534:6) infant baptism god's ordinance, or, clear proof that all the children of believing parents are in the covenant of grace and have as much a right to baptism the now seal of the covenant, as the infant seed of the jewes had to circumcision, the then seal of the covenant / by michael harrison ... harrison, michael, minister at potters-pury. [6], 58 p. printed for thom. cockerill ..., london : 1694. reproduction of original in cambridge university library. created by converting tcp files to tei p5 using tcp2tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between 1473 and 1700 available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the 25,363 texts created during phase 1 of the project have been released into the public domain as of 1 january 2015. anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. 5% (or 5 pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of 100 instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level 4 of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p5, characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng infant baptism. 2008-06 tcp assigned for keying and markup 2008-07 spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images 2009-01 emma (leeson) huber sampled and proofread 2009-01 emma (leeson) huber text and markup reviewed and edited 2009-02 pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion infant baptism god's ordinance : or , clear proof that all the children of believing parents are in the covenant of grace ; and have as much a right to baptism the now seal of the covenant , as the infant seed of the jews had to circumcision , the then seal of the covenant . rom. 16. 17 , 18. i beseech you brethren mark them which cause divisions and offences , contrary to the doctrine ye have learned , and avoid them : for they that are such , serve not our lord jesus christ , but their own belly ; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple . by michael harrison , minister of the gospel in p's p. london : printed for thom. cockerill , at the three legs in the poultrey , over-against the stocks-market . 1694. to all into whose hands this may fall ; especially those who sit under my ministry . dear friends , there are two things which do most evidently prove man by nature a lost creature . the one is the exceeding propensity and inclination in the heart of every man to actual sin , psal . 58.3 . job 15.16 . though every man is not actually guilty of every sin , yet is there not a sin in the world , but is seminally and vertually in every one's nature . the other is that strange infatuation the vnderstanding lieth under , and its proneness to mistake darkness for light ; damnable and deformed errors for beautiful and saving truths : and that which is saddest of all , a tenacious adherence to , and a resolved perseverance in , these by-paths of error , is very oft a mournful consequence that follows them . now as these two things do shew the fearful ruines and miserable condition of all by nature : so there are two things which all gospel-ministers should vehemently urge upon their people as effectual remedies against so dangerous and pernicious a malady . the one is the absolute and indispensible necessity of the new birth ; joh. 3.3 . except a man be born again , he cannot see the kingdom of god. this new birth is no less than a renovation of all the powers and faculties of the soul , a putting off the old man , and a putting on christ ; a changing that heart into a new gracious tender heart , that was by nature an old unbelieving stony heart ; any thing that persons rest in short of this new birth , is short of salvation . the other is , soundness of judgment in the doctrine of christ ; it is not like that the life should be holy , if the vnderstanding be corrupt ; there are damnable principles as well as damnable practices , 2 pet. 2.1 . indeed all erroneous opinions are not alike dangerous ; such as strike at the fundamental articles of christianity are most deadly ; such as err in lesser points , are not in so much danger . therefore , as the more fundamental and noble a doctrine is , the more earnestly should we contend for it ; so the more directly any erroneous opinion subverts same fundamental truth , the more zeal and indignation we should shew against it ; as also the greater care to antidote our selves and others against it . now amongst those erroneous doctrines that have been like pricking briars , and wounding thorns , ever since the beginning of the reformation , to the protestant churches , those wild and erroneous doctrines that have been broached by the antipedo baptists , on anabaptists , have not created the least trouble to the church of christ , but have been a perpetual vexation and trouble to all our godly reformers , as is evident by the sad complaints of those godly men in their books , as who will but read the works or lives of calvin , luther , zuinglius , melancton , oeculampadius , musculus , &c. and our english divines , may be abundantly satisfied . the danger many of you were in of being sucked in among the anabaptists , or at least to join with them in excluding your infants from baptism , the seal of the covenant , was that which first put me upon preaching upon this subject ; and it is the earnest request of several of you , that makes me consent to the printing of it . the sermons you have lately heard upon this text , have been ( glory to free grace ) of admirable use to establish and settle those of you that were staggering in this doctrine ; that whereas there was many scruples in many persons about infant baptism , yet now there are very few , if any , of those that constantly frequent this congregation , but have attained great satisfaction . as god that knows my heart , can testify for me , that it is not yours , but you , that i seek , your present holiness and eternal happiness ; so my greatest joy amongst you will be to find that my labour is not in vain ; that you are gained to christ , and joined to him by so firm a faith as the gates of hell may never prevail against . i bless god for that encouragement i have had amongst you , many of you that sprung from parents of the opposite persuasion , having so chearfully listed your selves in christ's service , and by receiving christ's press-money , have more solemnly engaged your selves to be his servants for ever . and that so many of you , and many even of adult age , have thought it their honour to be catechised in the publick congregation , which , i hope , will be followed by many others . in short , your exceeding willingnss to wait on the ministry with those saving impressions which , i hope , god hath made on many of your hearts , are to me a ground of hope , that what is so hopefully begun amongst you , will be as comfortably finished in the glory of god , and your eternal salvation . if any demand a reason , why one who willingly acknowledges himself to be the unfittest of a thousand , hath attempted this work , which hath been so well performed by several abler pens ? i only answer , that what others have done , being either too voluminous , or answers to other books , were therefore not so proper : besides , they that know my circumstances , the confident repeated challenges , the restless insinuations of the anabaptists , together with the various attempts that the persons of that persuasion have made to ensnare and draw away my hearers ( though i bless god with no success ) to their own way ; will see that i lay under a kind of necessity for what i have done . christian , study thy own heart , love all that fear god , though differently persuaded in some lesser things . and pray for him who desires to serve thee in our common saviour , michael harrison . infant baptism god's ordinance . gen. 17.7 . and i will establish my covenant between me and thee , and thy seed after thee , in their generations , for an everlasting covenant , to be a god unto thee , and thy seed after thee . god having in gen. 12.3 . promised abraham , that in him all nations should be blessed ; comes now in this 17th chapter in a more express and formal manner to establish his covenant with abraham : in which observe three things . 1. the persons covenanting . 1. ex parte dei ; god stands on the one side of the covenant : o the infinite condescention of the great god , to take any notice of lost sinners ! that when we had broken the first covenant , that he should condescend to make a second covenant , a covenant of grace with lost sinners ! 2. ex parte abrahami ; abraham and his seed stand on the other side of the covenant ; with thee and thy seed after thee : this seed of abraham is to be limited according to scripture ; not in ishmael , nor his seed by ketura , but in isaac shall thy seed be called , gen. 21.12 . abraham had a two-fold seed . 1. a natural seed by generation , which are abraham's seed by promise ; rom. 9.7 , 8. neither because they are the seed of abraham , are they all children , but in isaac shall thy seed be called . 2. a spiritual seed ; and these were either the proselited gentiles under the law , who did believe in , and worshipped the god of abraham ; and so were by circumcision , the then seal of the covenant , taken into abraham's family ; or else all believers under the gospel ; who though they are not of abraham's natural posterity , are yet abraham's spiritual seed ; rom. 4.16 . therefore it is of faith , that the promise might be sure to all the seed , not only that which is of the law ( viz. the jews ) but to that also which is of the faith of abraham , who is the father of us all ; i. e. the gentile believers . so gal. 3.29 . by both which places the apostle assureth the gentiles , that if they are by faith transplanted into christ , then were they abraham's seed , and might claim all the promises and priviledges of the covenant made with abraham , as if they had been abraham's natural seed by generation from isaac . 2. here is the duration of this covenant ; an everlasting , a perpetual , or an eternal covenant ; a covenant to last for evermore ; so the hebrew word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 gnolam properly signifies : this covenant was not to be taken down by moses , no nor by christ , but was that everlasting covenant which was ratified and sealed with the blood of christ , heb. 13.20 . 3. here are the conditions of this covenant ; on god's part , i will be to thee a god , which carries in it all manner of temporal , spiritual , and eternal blessings ; as pardon , sanctification , and eternal life , psal . 144.14 , 15. and on abraham's part ; he and his seed were to be the lord 's peculiar people , to walk before god in holiness , and sincere obedience , gen. 15.1.17.8 , 9 , 10. doct. that covenant of grace which god made with abraham , of which circumcision then was , and baptism now is the seal ; is a covenant in which all believers and their children are comprehended . in speaking to this doctrine , i shall by divine assistance do these five things . 1. briefly shew you the nature of the covenant of grace . 2. prove this covenant made with abraham to be a covenant of grace . 3. that circumcision then was , and baptism now is , a seal of this covenant . 4. all believers are in it . 5. that all the infants of believing parents are in this covenant , and have as much a right to the now seal of the covenant , which is baptism , as the infants of the jews had to the then seal of the covenant , which was circumcision . 1. the nature of the covenant of grace . the covenant of grace is god's gracious promise of delivering from a state of sin and death , and bringing into a state of salvation by jesus christ , all that by faith fly to , and lay hold on him . in which covenant we may take notice , 1. the parties in covenant ; god is on the one part of the covenant , and believers and their children on the other part , as has been proved . 2. that on our part christ is the principal head and representative in this covenant ; for this covenant was made with christ as the second adam , and in him with all the elect , as his seed , gal. 3.16 . rom. 5.15 . to the end . isa . 53.10 , 11. 3. jesus christ is the mediator of this covenant , 2 tim. 2.5 . 4. herein god promises life and salvation to all believers , 1 john 5.11 , 12. 5. the condition of the covenant on our part is faith , mark 16.16 . 6. herein the holy spirit is absolutely promised to work faith and all other graces in us , prov. 1.22 . ezek. 36.27 . and the first graces of conversion is absolutely promised us without any respect to the will of man , ezek. 36.25 , 26. this covenant god made with abraham was a covenant of grace ; it must either be a covenant of works , or a covenant of grace ; but a covenant of works it is not , for that requires personal perfect obedience from all ; and in case of sin lays the sinner under an curse , gal. 3.10 , 12. rom. 10.5 . it is a covenant of grace , as is evident . 1. this phrase , i will be thy god , and you shall be my people , is never found but in a promise of the covenant of grace ; as gen. 15.1 . exod. 29.45 . jer. 24.7.31.33.32.37 , 38 , 39. ezek. 11.18 , 19 , 20.34.22 , 23 , 24 , 25.37.23 . zech. 8.8 . 2 cor. 6.16 . rev. 21.3 . 2. it was the covenant of grace ; for it 's an everlasting covenant , which is a property of the covenant of grace , 2 sam. 23.5 . heb. 13.20 . 3. it 's a covenant of grace ; for we find that in all after-discoveries and repetitions of the covenant of grace , the spirit of god hath respect to this ; as deut. 29.10 , 11 , 12. psal . 105.42 . acts 2.39 . 4. it was a covenant of grace ; for circumcision , the seal of it , was a gospel-ordinance ; rom. 4.11 . it was a sign and seal of the righteousness of faith , i. e. of christ . 5. it 's a covenant of grace ; for that phrase , i will be to thee a god , contains all gospel-blessings in it , heb. 11.9 , 10 , 13 , 14. gal. 3.18 . 6. many scriptures testify it was so ; micha 7.19 , 20. luke 1.72 , 73 , 74. 3. that circumcision then was , and baptism now is , the seal of this covenant : that circumcision then was a seal , is evident , gen. 17.10 . rom. 4.11 . whoever would be a visible church-member must be circumcised . circumcision is now abolished by christ , eph. 2.15 . 1 cor. 7.19 and baptism now serves to the same purpose ; whoever will be a member of the christian church , must be baptised ; there 's no change in the covenant , only the rite of admitting members is changed , matth. 28.18 , 19. acts 2.41 . col. 2.10 , 11 , 12. 4. all believers are in this covenant ; this is abundantly evident , rom. 4.11 , 12 , 13 , 14 , 15. gal. 3.29 . the covenant was made with abraham as a believer , and with all believers as well as him . persons may be said to be in covenant in a twofold respect . 1. internally and invisibly ; as united to christ , living branches , knit to christ by a vital union ; and thus only the elect are in covenant : the covenant thus considered is not the ground of baptism ; if we must baptize none but such as are vitally in christ , then must we baptize none ; because tho we see the outward profession , we do not know who belong to the election of grace . 2. persons are externally and visibly in covenant , deut. 29.10 , 11 , 12 , 13. thus all who profess christ , tares and wheat , wise virgins and foolish , matth. 25.1 , 2 , 3 , 4. this is the ground of baptism ; we do not baptize persons as the elect of god , or infants as the infants of the elect , but as making a visible and credible profession of religion ; so the apostles did presently baptize such as did profess repentance towards god , and faith towards our lord jesus christ ; act. 2.41 . simon magus , in barely professing to believe in christ , was baptised . thus all those who visibly profess christianity , and are baptised in the name of christ , and do not scandalous sins , notoriously contradict their profession , are to be accounted believers in covenant , and their children to be baptised , ezek. 16.20 , 21. 3. that all infants of such believing parents are in the covenant of grace , and have as much a right to baptism , the now seal of the covenant , as the infants of the jews had to circumcision , the then seal of the covenant . this is the principal thing designed from this text. there are , you know , a sort of restless people amongst us , who are perpetually letting fly , and with great indignation spurning at infant baptism ; telling you , your infants have no right to the seal of the covenant , and thereby tempt you to be cruel to the children of your own bowels , setting them among pagans and infidels . therefore i hope it will be an acceptable service to plead the cause of your poor infants , who cannot yet speak a word for themselves ; to assert and prove their right to the covenant , and the initiating seal thereof , which is baptism . i hope to find very few amongst you who will join with the enemy of infants , but rather put to a helping hand to restore them those priviledges god allows them . in speaking to this , i shall 1. lay down some conclusions to clear the doctrine of infant baptism . 2. prove the doctrine by several arguments . 3. shew the dangerous consequence of denying infant baptism . 4. answer objections . 5. prove that dipping over head in baptizing in these cold countreys , is no ordinance of god , but a grievous sin. chap. i. containing five introductory considerations , very needful for the right understanding the controversy of infant baptism . 1. consider , that a doctrine or practice may be proved to be of god two ways . 1. by the express words of scripture ; as the resurrection of the dead may be proved from such a text as cannot be denied by any that own the scripture to be god's word ; as john 5.28 . all that are in the grave shall come forth . 2. or from evident consequences drawn from scripture ; then have we the mind of christ , when we have the right meaning of scripture ; thus christ proves the resurrection to the sadduces , luke 20.37 , 38. now that the dead are raised , even moses shewed at the bush , when he calleth the lord , the god of abraham , the god of isaac , and the god of jacob ; god is not the god of the dead , but of the living . now this scripture doth not prove the resurrection in direct terms , but remotely , and by consequence . how little satisfaction would this text have given our modern anabaptists , if they had been present at the dispute between christ and the sadduces ; would they not have reprov'd christ for his impertinence ? we will not believe the dead will rise , unless we have a plain text ; would not these men have reported abroad that christ could could not prove the resurrection ? thus they deal with us at this day ; we challenge you , say they , to prove infant baptism to be god's ordinance ; bring us a plain text , and we will believe . now if we prove infant baptism as plainly as christ proved the resurrection , then it is certainly god's ordinance ; and we are bound to own it . most we believe nothing but what we have totidem verbis , in just so many words in scripture ? then how shall we prove the first day of the week to be the christian sabbath ? that a woman may come to the lord's table ? that a christian may be a magistrate ? 2. observe , that a mind prepossessed with error and prejudice , that is , not seeking truth , but only something to defend their present embraced opinions , will not be satisfied , let the text be never so clear , or the argument never so firmly built upon scripture ; but will still be inventing some shift or other to ward off the force of any text or argument . this is evident in the example of the sadduces beforementioned ; we find indeed christ silenced them , but we do not find so much as one of them convinced , and brought off to a sound mind . men are generally so fond of their errors , that when they are beaten out of one hold , they fly to another . 3. those doctrines which were clearly revealed , and fully confirmed in the old testament , though little or nothing be said of them in the new testament , and were never repealed , are yet to be owned , received and believed , as if much had been said of them in the new testament ; the whole scripture is god's word , and what need of proving the same thing twice , unless the authority of the old testament were questioned ? this is evident in the lawfulness of a christian magistracy , in an oath before a magistrate , and making war upon a just occasion : there is so little said of these things in the new testament , many of the anabaptists have denied them ; yet these being fully setled and confirmed by god in the old testament , are to be owned , though little be said of them in the new. now this is the case of infant baptism . the question is not by what sign , but at what age , persons are to be admitted into the visible church ? now this was fully determined in the old testament , that infants at eight days old were to be admitted members of the visible church ; and suppose little be said of it in the new testament , it is because there was no need of it ; this truth having been once setled in the old testament , and never repealed . 4. those doctrines which were once throughly setled in the old testament , and never called in question by any in the new , there was no occasion given to speak of them again . we find , that what was but darkly hinted in the old testament , and much questioned in the new , is fully cleared ; and much is said of it , as that glorious doctrine of justification by the imputation of the righteousness of christ : this was very darkly hinted in the old testament , and very much opposed by legal preachers in the new testament , therefore much is said in the new testament to clear it . but infants right to the covenant , or to church-membership , there was much said of it in the old testament , and it was neve● denied or called in question by any in the apostles days ; they were setled , and had had peaceable possession of their priviledges ever since abraham's time . had any in the apostles days scrupled in infants right , very much would have been said of it ; for the jews , who tenaciously adhered to their old priviledges , would never so silently have suffered their children to be cast out of covenant , without taking notice of it . a doctrine may be very clear , the scriptures brought to prove , and the argument thence deduced clear and convincing ; and yet it may remain dark to one that is uncapable of discerning it . an object may be very obvious , and yet not well discerned , by reason the eye is clouded . how plain are the doctrines of the trinity ; the divine nature of christ ; justification by imputed righteousness , &c. and yet many are so blind as not to see these things ? so the matter in debate , viz. that the infants of believing parents have a right to baptism , is as clear to me as the other , yet many will not see it . the generality of christians are but babes in knowledge , have but dark and confused apprehensions of the clearest truths in religion , and must needs be much more at a loss in what hath not that clearness and perspicuity in it . chap. ii containing the first argument for infant baptism . if god doth own the infant seed of believers as his , then they ought to receive the token of his so owning of them . but god doth own the infant seed of believers as his , therefore they ought to receive the token of his so owning of them , which is baptism . now that god doth own the infant seed of believers as his , i prove by these four arguments . 1. if the children of believing parents are god's children , their sons and daughters his sons and daughters , then god owns them . but the children of believing parents are god's children , as is evident , ezek. 16.20 , 21. moreover , thou hast taken thy sons and thy daughters , whom thou hast born unto me , and these hast thou sacrificed to be devoured : thou hast slain my children and delivered them to pass through the fire for them . these idolatrous israelites were at this time much degenerated , but yet god had not given them a bill of divorce , the covenant was not dissolved ; and therefore these children born within the covenant , were god's children ; and his , not merely by right of creation , so all are his but by right of covenant . there was little reason to believe the parents were gracious ; but however , being visibly in covenant , god claims their children as his own , as belonging to his church and family by a covenant-right . 2. if the children of such parents , who are one or both of them believers , are federally holy , then god owns them : but the former is true , 1 cor : 7.14 . therefore the latter , else were your children unclean ; but now are they holy ; the question was , whether when the husband was a believer , and the wife an unbeliever ; or the wife a believer , and the husband a pagan , they might yet continue to live with the unbeliever : to this the apostle answers , they might , and gives this reason for it , viz. the unbeliever is sanctified by the believer : sanctified in scripture usually signifies either 1. savingly sanctified by grace and spiritual life infused into the soul by the spirit of god : or , 2. setting persons apart for some holy use or office ; as the priests , sabbath , tabernacle , and all the utensils thereof , and all the people of israel who were circumcised ; but the unbelieving husband or wise here were sanctified in neither of these respects ; therefore it 's otherwise to be understood . candidatus est fidei , say some , they are in a fair way of being won over to the faith of christ , or prepared by god for such a use ; so sanctified signifies in isa . 13.3 . but the meaning is plainly this : that in regard that all the faithful are heirs of the covenant of grace , gen. 17.1 . i will establish my covenant between me and thee , and thy seed after thee , in their generations , for an everlasting covenant , to be a god unto thee , and to thy seed after thee . acts 2.39 . the promise is to you , and to your children : this promise being to believing parents , and their infants , this covenant the unbelieving party cannot undo by his or her unbelief ; hence their children were holy . 1. not merely legitimate ; for so they would have been , had both the parents been pagans ; to say as the anabaptists do , they are not bastards ; is , saith doctor featly , a bastard exposition . 2. nor can it be meant , that they are saved , justified and sanctified by the holy ghost , ( though if that were the sense , it would not contradict but confirm the doctrine of infant baptism ; for whoever hath justification and sanctification , the thing signified by baptism , hath undoubtedly a right to the sign and seal . 3. then by holy must unavoidably be meant federally holy ; i. e. within the covenant ; as the infants of the jews were a holy seed , and had a right to circumcision ; so the infants of christian parents , though but one of them a believer , had a federal holiness and a right to be baptised , as if both the parents had been believers . 4. if the kingdom of heaven belongs to little children , then christ owns them ; but the kingdom of heaven doth belong to them , matth. 19.13 , 14. then were there brought little children unto him , that he should put his hands on them , and pray , and the disciples rebuked them ; but jesus said , suffer little children , and forbid them not to come unto me , for of such is the kingdom of heaven . here christ declares the kingdom of heaven belongs to them . by the kingdom of heaven is meant , either the kingdom of glory in the next world , or the kingdom of grace here ; the latter is most probable , for so the church is called , matth. 22.1 , 2. now be it the one , or the other , its evident christ owned them as his . 5. if the promise of the covenant of grace may be made to the infant seed of believers , then christ owneth them ; but the promise of the covenant of grace is to the infant seed of believers , as well as to their believing parents ; gen. 17.7 . i will establish my covenant between me and thee , and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant , to be a god unto thee , and thy seed after thee . and this promise the apostle recites as belonging to all believers , acts 2.39 . the promise is to you , and to your children . now from all it 's abundantly evident , that god doth own the children of believing parents as his : therefore they ought to receive the token of his so owning them , which is baptism . the conclusion is unavoidably ; if it be evident god owns a person , that person ought to be baptized ; let him shew , that can , any reason why a person so owned by god should not be admitted into the church by baptism . chap. iii. containing the second argument for infant baptism . if the infants of believing parents ought to be received and admitted visible church-members , then such infants ought to be baptized ; but the infants of believing parents ought to be received and admitted visible church-members , therefore they ought to be baptized . now that such infants ought to be received into the visible church as visible church-members , i prove by these arguments . argument 1. if by the merciful gift and appointment of god , not yet repealed , some infants were once to be admitted members of the visible church by vertue of the covenant of grace ; then 't is certain some infants are still to be so admitted : but the former is true , therefore the latter . two things must here be done to shew , 1. that some infants were once admitted members of the visible church . 2. that this church-membership was never repealed . 1. some infants were once so admitted by vertue of the covenant of grace . if any deny this , thus it is proved . 1. infants were part of them that entered into covenant with the lord god , and into his oath , that he might take them to be a peculiar people to himself ; deut 29.10 11 , 12 , 13 , 14 , 15. ye stand this day all of you before the lord your god ; your captains of your tribes , your elders with your officers , with all the men of israel . 11. your little ones , your wives , &c. 12. that thou shouldest enter into covenant with the lord thy god , and into his oath which the lord thy god maketh with thee this day . 13. that he establish thee to day for a people unto himself ; and that be may be unto thee a god , as he hath said unto thee ; and as he hath sworn unto thy fathers , to abraham , to isaac , and to jacob. 14. neither with you only do i make this covenant , and this oath ; but v. 15. with him that standeth here with us this day before the lord your god ; but with him that is not here with us this day . this was not a new covenant , but a renewing the covenant made with abraham , as v. 13. into this covenant their little ones present were taken , and their little ones yet unborn . 2. infants were engaged to god by the seal of the covenant , which was circumcision , gen. 17.10 . circumcision was not a meer politick rite , as some frantick anabaptists have dreamed ; but a seal of the covenant of grace , rom. 4.11 . he received the sign of circumcision as a seal of the righteousness of faith : that is , circumcision was 1. a sign ; of what ? of the circumcision of the heart by the spirit of christ ; of the mortifying and killing the old man ; of the sad effects of sin , both original and actual ; and the way of recovery by jesus christ . 2. it 's a seal of the righteousness of faith ; that is , of the righteousness of christ imputed to the believer , and received by faith ; this is a periphrasis of the covenant of grace , wherein righteousness is promised , and made over to us in a way of believing . 3. infants were baptized to moses in the cloud , and in the sea , 1 cor. 10.1 , 2 , 3. and stephen calls that assembly , whereof they were members , the church in the wilderness . from hence it is evident beyond rational contradiction , that infants were sometimes taken into the visible church , as visible church-members , by vertue of the covenant of grace . secondly , that this infant church-membership was never repealed . for if infant church-membership be repealed , then that repeal must be either in mercy or judgment ; but it was in neither , therefore it was never repealed . 1. infant church-membership was never repealed in judgment ; for god never revokes his covenant to any people , till first that people break covenant with him , which infants never did ; therefore being once taken into covenant , 't is certain god did never cast them out . now it was a mercy to have infants taken into covenant , deut. 29.10 , 11 , 12. therefore if this privilege be revok'd , it must be in judgment ; for as it is a great mercy to be in the visible church , so 't is a sore judgment to be out of it , to be cast out of covenant . now if infant church-membership be repeal'd , then the infants of believers under the gospel are in a much worse condition than before christ's incarnation ; certainly christ did not come to make our children miserable , or to put them into a worse condition than they were in before ; this would make christ a destroyer , who is the only saviour . but certainly the church is now in a much better condition , and her privileges more ample and larger than they were before ; she hath lost none of her privileges , but gained many more , heb. 8.6 . a more excellent ministry , better promises , rom. 5.15 , 16 , 17. 't is certain infants are not thrown out of covenant , for that would much darken the grace of god received in the gospel . 2. nor is infant church-membership repeal'd in mercy ; for it can be no mercy to take away a mercy , unless it means to give a greater mercy in the room of it . now let the anabaptists shew what greater mercy god hath given in the room of infant church-membership ; there is none : therefore it was never repealed . 2. if that covenant , by vertue whereof infants were received into the visible church , was the covenant of grace , then 't is certain it was never repeal'd . but that covenant , by vertue whereof they were taken in , was the covenant of grace , therefore it was never repealed . but that covenant , by vertue whereof they were taken into the visible church , was the covenant of grace , as is most evident , deut. 29.10 , 11 , 12. and so the covenant made with abraham , whereof circumcision was a seal , gen. 17.7 , 10. as the apostle clearly proves , rom. 4.11 . now the covenant of grace is an everlasting covenant , 2 sam. 23.5 . never was , nor ever will be repeal'd . infant church-membership was no ceremony , neither was it any part of the ceremonial law ; if any say it was , let them shew what it typified under the gospel . if it were a ceremony , then the materials of the church would be a ceremony , and so the church it self , which would be very absurb to affirm . neither was it part of the moral law , the covenant of works , whatever pains some of the opposite persuasion have taken to prove it ; for the covenant of works knows no mercy ; neither was it any part of the judicial law , for church-membership was not a piece of meer policy ; the church is one thing , and the commonwealth another . 3. if there be no mention or record of the repeal of infant church-membership in any part of the new testament , then it is most certain it was never repealed . but there is no record of any such repeal in any part of the new testament , therefore it was never repealed ; if any say it was , let them shew where that repeal is recorded . 't is true circumcision is ceased , because it was a ceremonial type ; but infant church-membership being no type or ceremony , is not ceased . argument 2. if an infant was head of the visible church , then an infant may be a member of the visible church . but an infant was head of the visible church ; for who will deny , but that jesus christ was head of the visible church in his infancy ? what honour was done to christ in his infancy both by angels and men ? hence it appears , 1. that the nonage of infants doth not make them uncapable of being church-members , supposing god's will. 2. it shews , that it is the will of god that it should be so ; because christ passed through each age to sanctify it to us . thus irenaeus , who lived about an hundred and fifty years after christ , these are his words ; ideo per omnem venit etatem , & infantibus infans factus , &c. therefore christ passed through every age ; for infants he was made an infant , sanctifying infants ; in little children , being a little child , sanctifying them that have that very age ; here 's clear proof from antiquity of infant church-membership . argument 3. if infants are federally holy , then they have a right to visible church-membership ; but infants are federally holy , 1 cor. 7.14 . as we have before shewed , and all sound interpreters tell us . argument 4. if infants belong to the kingdom of heaven , then they belong to , and are members of the visible church ; but infants do belong to the kingdom of heaven , therefore they belong to the visible church . now some infants do belong to the kingdom of heaven , matth. 19.14 . suffer little children to come unto me , and forbid them not , for of such is the kingdom of heaven . by the kingdom of heaven here , must needs be meant , either the kingdom of grace , that is , the gospel-church here ; and then the meaning is , that the gospel church , which is christ's kingdom on earth , is made up of infants , as well as adult persons ; and this is most likely to be the meaning : and so the thing in question is clearly proved . or else by the kingdom of heaven must be meant the kingdom of glory : that is , children shall go to heaven as well as grown persons . if so , still the consequence is clear ; if infants are members of the invisible church , then have they an undoubted right to be members of the visible church . i grant a person may be a member of the invisible church , and yet no member of the visible : yet whoever is a member of the invisible church , hath a right to visible church-membership . argument 5. if infants are to be received in christ's name , then they do undoubtedly belong to christ's church : but we are commanded to receive infants in christ's name , mark 9.36 , 37. — he that receiveth one such child in my name , receiveth me , &c. doth christ take them into his arms , and would he have them cast out of his church ? are we to receive them in christ's name , and do they not belong to christ , nor to his church ? see mark 10.13 , 14 , 15. did christ say all this to deceive us ? certainly they are visible members of the visible church . now if this be so , that some infants were sometimes admitted by god's own appointment , and that by vertue of the covenant of grace , visible church-members ; then undoubtedly they ought to be baptized ; for baptism is the only rite that jesus christ , who is head of the church , hath appointed for the admitting members into his church , matth. 28.18 , 19. all that are , or will be christ's disciples , must be baptized in his name ; if any know any other , let them shew it . now these two arguments are abundantly sufficient to prove the infants right to baptism , and it is needless to name any other : but yet because some think a thing never proved , unless much be said , and many arguments be brought ; i shall therefore add some other arguments ; though i shall not dwell , nor enlarge on them , because the right understanding of these already mentioned , will give light to what remains . chap. iv. containing the third , fourth , fifth , sixth , seventh , eighth and ninth arguments for infant baptism . argument iii. if any infants are christ's disciples , then those infants ought to receive the badg of a disciple , which is baptism ; but some infants are disciples , act. 15.10 . why lay you a yoke upon the necks of the disciples . now this yoke was circumcision , as v. 1. and v. 5. there were some that would impose circumcision on the disciples of christ . now this must needs be understood of infants as well as others , because that circumcision was most commonly administred to infants ; therefore if infants are not only meant , they are chiefly intended ; now that all disciples of christ ought to be baptized ; there is a plain command for it ; and so a command for infant baptism , matth. 28.19 . go therefore teach all nations ; but in the greek it is , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , go disciple all nations , baptizing them ; infants are disciples , as before , therefore ought to be baptized . argument iv. if it hath been the constant custom of the church of christ all along from the apostles days to baptize infants , none never denying it till some hundreds of years after ; then we may rationally conclude it was the practice of the apostles to baptize infants ; but the former is true , therefore the latter . now that infant baptism was practised in the primitive times by the whole universal catholick church , is evident . irenaeus , who had seen policarpus , st. john's disciple , and therefore lived very near the apostles days , saith , christ came to save and sanctify all sorts ; qui per eum venascuntur in deum infantes , &c. all that are born to god , infants , little ones , and children — born to god in the ecclesiastical phrase , is but the same with infant baptism . tertullian , who lived about the year of redemption 200. moved some scruples about baptism , yet never denied the lawfulness of it : and in case that the infant was in danger of death , did vehemently urge it . origen , who lived but little after him , speaks again and again of the baptizing little children , and saith , they received it by tradition from the apostles . about 150 years after the death of st. john , there was one fidus , who raised a doubt , whether infants might be baptized before they were eight days old , because circumcision was not to be administred till then . therefore cyprian , bishop of carthage , and 66 more , met to consider this case ; and agreed , that infants , recens nati , new born , might be baptized . and thus we might cite testimonies of athanasius , chrysostom , augustin , and many others , that it was the constant custom of the church to baptize infants . which custom is still continued in all the churches of christ all the world over ; as appears in all the confessions of all the protestant churches : as helvetia , bohemia , belgia , auspurg , saxony , wittenberg , swedeland , france and peidmont ; and histories tell us 't is practised by the russians , muscovites , and all the christians in india , syria , cyprus , mesopotamia , babylon , palastine ; and in every part of the world where there be any christian churches planted . argument v. the fifth argument for infant baptism is this : if the infants of believing parents be in the covenant of grace , and the promise of the covenant do belong to them ; then they may , and ought to be baptized . but such infants are in covenant , and the promise of the covenant doth belong to them , therefore they ought to be baptized . that they are in covenant as well as their parents , is undeniably evident from the tenure of that covenant made with abraham , which was a gospel-covenant , gen. 17.7 as we have abundantly proved ; and that the promise of the covenant is to them , is as evident , act. 2.39 . the promise is to you , and to your children ; he means the promise of god to abraham ; the promise of salvation by christ , which was promised both to jews and gentiles ; but to the jews in the first place : or suppose the apostle hath respect unto jer. 31.33 , 34. or to joel 2.28 . it alters not the case , for those were all branches of the covenant of grace , and explications of what was virtually contained in that first promise to abraham , gen. 17.7 . argument vi. the sixth argument for infant baptism is this : if the infants of one or both of the believing parents be federally holy , then they ought to be baptized ; but the former is true , therefore the latter , 1 cor. 7.14 . by the holiness of children there , is not meant legitimacy ; i.e. not bastards ; so they would have been , if both the parents had been pagans . nor is it meant that they are savingly sanctified , but federally holy ; that is , in the covenant of grace ; and so had an undeniable right to the seal of the covenant , which is baptism . argument vii . the seventh argument for infant-baptism is this : if the kingdom of heaven belong to infants , then they ought to be baptized ; but the kingdom of heaven doth belong to some infants , matth. 19.14 . suffer little children to come to me , for of such is the kingdom of heaven . 1. suppose by the kingdom of heaven , is meant the kingdom of glory ; little children when they die shall go to heaven ; this sense the anabaptists cannot disallow ; for they say , all children dying in infancy , are saved ; the infants of turks , pagans , infidels , papists , all sorts : then if they are heirs of glory , this must be by vertue of their interest in , and union with christ ; for there 's no other way to heaven , but by jesus christ , john 14.6 . i am the way , the truth , and the life ; no coming unto the father but by me : there 's no name under heaven , whereby we can be saved , but only jesus christ . now if infants have a right to glory by vertue of their union with , and interest in christ , then have they a right to be baptized ; if they have a right to heaven by christ , then to receive the badge of a disciple of christ , which is baptism ; no person can have any plea for heaven , that had not a right to be baptized , acts 2.47 . the lord added to the church such as should be saved . this adding to the church was by baptism , v. 41. and let them shew that can , what right those have to heaven , that are not , or at least have not a right to be so added to the visible church . 2. but by the kingdom of heaven is oft understood the gospel-church : so mat. 22.1.13.47.8.20 , 21.11.12 and in most of our saviour's parables : and this is most likely to be the meaning of this text , of such is the kingdom of heaven ; that is , the gospel-church takes infants as well as adult persons to be visible members in it : and then the consequence is unavoidable , the visible church and kingdom of christ is made up of infants as well as adult persons ; baptism is the door into the visible church , therefore they must needs be baptized . argument viii . the eighth argument for infant baptism is this : if infants are to be received in the name of christ , they are to be baptized in the name of christ ; but infants are to be received in the name of christ , mark 9.36 . whoso receiveth one such child in my name , receiveth me ; to receive them in the name of christ , is to receive them as the disciples of christ ; or , because they belong to christ : and if they ought to be thus received in christ's name , as the friends and disciples of christ , then they ought to receive the badge of a disciple , to have the name of christ named over them in baptism . argument ix . if in our saviour's time the head and master of a family was never baptized , but his whole family was baptized with him , then children and infants ought to be baptized , for they are a considerable part of families . but we never read of any head or master of a family baptized , but his or their whole houshold were baptized with them ; as is evident in cornelius , acts 10. and lydia , and the jailer , acts 16. so 1 cor. 1.14 . &c. object . but there 's no mention of any infants in any of these families . answ . no more is there of any of riper years : and it 's much more likely that there was infants in those families , than otherwise ; there is no mention in scripture of children of believing parents baptized at adult age . i shall multiply no more arguments ; by these the unprejudiced reader will be abundantly satisfied , that infant-baptism is god's ordinance . chap. v. shewing that the doctrine of the anabaptists , in excluding infants from baptism , and shutting them out of the visible church , makes all infants to be of the visible kingdom of satan , and so leaves us no well-grounded hope of the salvation of any dying in infancy ; and is therefore to be justly abhorred as false doctrine . argum. 1. that doctrine that makes all infants to be of the visible kingdom of the devil , is false doctrine . but to deny infants baptism , is to deny them to be of the visible church of christ ; and if they are not visibly in the church of christ , they are visibly out of it , and of the kingdom of the devil ; there is no third or middle state on earth between the visible kingdom of christ , which is his church , and the kingdom of the devil ; and all men and women , and infants too , are visible members of the one or the other . if any know of any middle state , let them show it ; christ and satan share the whole world between them ; and if infants are not visibly in the kingdom of christ , they are visibly in the kingdom of the devil ; the consequence is unavoidable : what barbarous usage is this to our poor infants ! christ commands us to bring them to him , and tells us , of such is the kingdom of god ; and the anabaptists perversely thrust them away from christ , and from the church of christ , set them among pagans and infidels , who are of the visible kingdom of the devil . argument 2. that doctrine that leaves us no well-grounded hope of the salvation of any infants dying in infancy , is certainly false doctrine : but the anabaptists in denying infant baptism to the seed of believers , leave us no well-grounded hope of the salvation of any such dying in infancy . i do not say , that the anabaptists do positively assert the damnation of all infants dying in infancy , for they do the direct contrary , assert the certain salvation of all infants , even turks , pagans , and jews . but i say , they leave us no well-grounded hope of the salvation of any such ; for if infants ought not to be baptized , then are they out of the visible church ; all who belong to the visible church , have a right to baptism ; therefore in denying infants baptism , they throw them out of the visible church : and let him shew , that can tell how , what grounds there are to hope , or expect , the salvation of any out of the visible church . i grant a person may want the engaging sign , and yet have a right to church-membership , yea , to salvation ; so an elect infant dying unbaptized is saved ; though it have not the sign , yet it had a right to it . now without a promise we can neither believe nor hope , rom. 15.4 , 13. eph. 1.18 . eph. 4.4 . col. 1.5 , 23 , 27. heb. 6.18 , 19. again , such as god intends to save , he adds to the church , acts 2.47 . 't is the visible church there spoken of ; and such who are not so added , or have not a right to be so added , let them shew , that can , what ground there is to hope for their salvation . and thus all well-grounded hope of the salvation of any infant dying in infancy , is taken away by the anabaptists . for thus they argue from mat. 28.18 , 19. none but those who are taught , are disciples ; infants cannot be taught , therefore are not disciples ; and that this is the only way to make church-members ; and may we not on the same ground say , they cannot be saved because they cannot believe ? mark 16.16 . he that believes not , shall be damned . i appeal to all unbiassed persons , whether there is not on their own bottom , the same reason to say , they are uncapable of salvation , as of baptism ; but there is great reason to believe and hope for the salvation of some infants ; for as we have shewed they are in the covenant of grace , gen. 17.7 . acts 2.39 . deut. 29.10 , 11 , 12 , 13. they are to be joined in standing church-ordinances , 2 chron. 20.13 . joel 2.16 . from all which , and much more might be said , it 's evident some infants are saved , though the anabaptists by their erroneous doctrine take away all well-grounded hope of the salvation of any infants dying in infancy . chap. vi. objections of anabaptists answered . obj. 1. if it be god's will infants should be baptized , why is there no command for it , as there was for their circumcision ? 1. the general command includes children , therefore there was no need of any particular mentioning of them . 2. the promise is as express to children , as to parents , acts 2.39 . the promise is to you and to your children . 3. it had been absurd to have given a new command for children , seeing they were in the actual possession of their priviledg , and had been so ever since abraham's time , none had ever questioned their right and title to the covenant . there was no anabaptists in the apostles days , nor of many hundred years after . obj. 2. but that covenant , gen. 17.7 . was a covenant of works . indeed some weak anabaptists have said so . but it was not a covenant of works , for that knows no mercy to fallen sinners ; but there is mercy in that covenant , that god will be a god to his people , and to their seed : it was a covenant of grace , and that the apostle proves , rom. 4.11 . as hath been abundantly proved before . obj. 3. though infants were then church-members , it doth not follow they are so now ; the church is now built on another foundation . thus a preacher among the anabaptists lately urged to me . ans . 1. if this be true , then the church of christ under the old testament , had a different foundation from the church now under the new testament : the foundation is now jesus christ ; but what was it then ? what will not proud and ignorant men say to maintain an errour ! 2. the foundation of the church then was christ , and the covenant of grace was the same then as now ; only then was but the dawning of the day , the darker appearances of the son of righteousness ; but now the sun shines in his full strength . heb. 10.1 . rom. 4.3 , 11. obj. 4. but though infants were then visible church-members , and had a right to the sign of the covenant , god has now cast off the jews , and so infant church-membership is ceased . ans . the apostle assures us , that church-membership , and all other priviledges , are as sure and ample now to the believing gentiles , as they were before to the jews , rom. 11.17 . and if some of the branches be broken off , and thou being a wild olive tree , wert grafted in amongst them , and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree . obj. 5. but circumcision is abolished , therefore infant church-membership . ans . circumcision and infant church-membership , were two things ; circumcision was but the rite of admitting visible members ; the rite is changed , but not church-membership ; baptism comes in the room of circumcision , col. 2.10 , 11 , 12. obj. 6. infants are not capable of the ends of baptism , for it 's an engaging sign , and signifies the washing away sin , both guilt and stain ; infants being uncapable of the use of reason , must be so of baptism . ans . baptism hath more ends than one : 1. it 's christ's listing sign for admitting soldiers into his service , or disciples into his school , or subjects into his kingdom ; and this is what infants are capable of . 2. it 's an engaging sign , wherein they are by parents , or other , engaged to god , and this they are capable of also . 3. the inward grace thereby signified , as pardon , justification , sanctification , adoption , these infants are capable of , otherwise they could not be saved , and if these are not , the sacrament may be without them . 4. a lease for years , with a covenant to a child that understands it not , may be of great use : so baptism , though at present the child understands nothing of it , yet it may be , and to converted believers is of great use afterwards , and godly parents at present have the comfort : for god herein hath provided for the comfort of parents . 5. a person may be baptized that is not capable of all the ends of baptism ; one end of baptism is to wash away sin , &c. this was an end jesus christ was not capable of , and yet he was baptized . 6. those infants christ took into his arms and blessed , and those circumcised at eight days old , knew no more of the benefits they received , than ours do now ; they were no more capable of faith and repentance , than ours are ; and yet they entered into the covenant of grace , rom. 4.11 . obj. 7. but we have no express command in the new testament to baptize infants . ans . i have shewn there needed none ; their priviledg had been setled many ages before , and never questioned by any , nor repealed by christ ; their former right continuing firm , acts 2.39 . the general command includes them . obj. 8. but if they had a right , we might expect to find some examples of their baptizing . ans . 't is manifest that believers housholds were baptized with them , acts 10. acts 16.15 , 16 , 33. and if no infants are mentioned , so neither any children of believing parents baptized at age ; and we have much more reason to believe there were infants in all , or some of those families , than any have to think there was none . obj. 9. the baptism of believers is come in the room of infant church-membership . ans . it hath been abundantly proved , that infant church-membership was no ceremony , or type ; if any say it was , let them prove it : therefore as it was never abolished , nor infants never unchurched , nothing can be said to come in the room of it . 2. that baptizing adult believers should exclude infants , is as if the receiving and circumcising the gentile proselytes into the church of israel , had been a means to have unchurched their infants , which for any to affirm , would be extremely ridiculous . obj. 10. how can infants covenant with god , or be engaged by this sign ? or where doth god engage parents to promise any thing for their children ? answ . that parents may , and ought to covenant for their children , plainly appears , 1 : from nature , lex naturae est , lex dei ; may not parents take a lease for their children ? who buyeth lands , and not for himself and heirs ? are not children bound by those ties ? and then much more to god. 2. from scripture , deut. 29.10 , 11 , 12 , 13. here you may see the parents covenant , not only for their children then present , but unborn , and they were by circumcision to enter them into covenant , so deut. 26.17 , 18. and hath the gospel taken away the parent 's right in his child ? obj. we promise what we cannot perform . ans . we promise to educate this child for god , to instruct him in gospel truths ; leaving the renovation and sanctification of the heart to god , who works when , on whom , and by what means he pleaseth . may not a man covenant for himself and heirs to pay a yearly rent ? and what follows in case it be not paid , but forfeiture of his lease , and that from the person that should have paid it ? obj. 11. if infants must be baptized , why may they not as well receive the lord's supper ? 1. if there were that scripture-proof to administer the lord's supper to infants , as there is for baptizing them , we would do it , when they have as clearly proved the one , as we have the other . 2. baptism is the initiating seal of entering into the church , which infants being disciples of christ , are capable of ; the lord's supper is the confirming seal to be administred only to grown christians ; therefore infants have a right to the one , but not to the other . obj. 12. if infants ought to be baptized , why is it left so dark in the new testament ? ans . 1. it 's not dark , which admits of such clear proof as you see this doth . 2. that all christ's disciples ought to be baptized , is not dark , matth. 28.19 . infants are disciples ; therefore 't is plain they ought to be baptized . obj. 13. the baptizing persons before they know , occasions much gross ignorance . ans . 1. christ is the occasion of the ruin and damnation of thousands , for he was set for the fall , as well as the rising of many in israel , luke 2.3 , 4. but had it been better the world had had no christ ? 2. the gospel is the savour of death to many ; had it been better then we had had no gospel ? what will not the wicked take hurt by ? 3. let them shew what in baptism tends to breed ignorance ; is the entring a boy 's name in the school the way to breed him in ignorance ? if a child's name be put into a lease , is this like to hurt him ? what harm is it to be in christ's family from our youth ? nay , the contrary is the way to breed ignorance and prophaneness ; for how many sad examples have we among the anabaptists , who refusing to dedicate their infants to christ , they are ignorantly and bruitishly brought up , live and die like pagans . thus it hath been proved abundantly , that infant baptism is god's ordinance ; that the infant seed of believers were once taken into the church as visible church-members ; that christ owns them , &c. therefore they ought to be baptized ; that it 's a false and dangerous doctrine to deny them church-membership and baptism . enough hath been said for the satisfaction of those who are seeking truth ; such who wilfully shut their eyes , it 's in vain to set light before them , because seeing they see , but do not understand ; and hearing they hear , but do not perceive . there 's one thing more remaining , viz. the right manner of baptizing ; that shall next be dispatched . chap. vii . shewing that washing , pouring , or otherwise applying water to the body , is the right way of baptizing ; and not dipping , as now used by the anabaptists . when the anabaptists speak of baptizing , as 't is now done generally by all the reformed churches , they do it with much scorn and contempt , and can scarcely do it in any other terms , than sprinkling ; they say we may as well sprinkle a lamb , nay a dog , or a cat , as an infant ; what christian ear doth not abhor such language ! our protestant divines usually define baptism thus ; it is a washing in , or of water , or an applying water to the baptized : or by sprinkling the baptized in the name of the father , son , and holy ghost . none , say the anabaptists , are rightly baptized , but such as are dipped or plunged over head in the water . to this i answer three things . 1. that which is a plain breach of the sixth commandment , thou shalt not kill , is no ordinance of god , but a most heinous sin ; but dipping over-head in cold water in these cold countreys , is a plain breach of the sixth commandment , thou shalt not kill ; which forbids the taking away of our own life , or the life of our neighbour unjustly , or any thing that tends thereunto : now dipping in cold water tends to the taking away life , as many have found by experience , who have contracted such distempers in dipping as have hastened their deaths : therefore the so doing is a great sin. 2. the greek word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , though it be derived from 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , to dip or plunge , yet it 's taken for any kind of washing or cleansing , where there is no dipping , mat. 3.11 . mark 7.4 . and it sometimes signifies sprinkling , yea to baptize by sprinkling , 1 cor. 10.2 . they were all baptized unto moses by the cloud in the sea ; all the world knows a cloud doth but sprinkle , heb. 9.10 . divers washings or baptisms , 't is evident the apostle means the sprinkling of blood , exod. 29.20 , 21. and the law of cleansing the leper , lev. 14.4 , to 9. 3. washing , sprinkling , or pouring water upon the body , aptly represents the thing signified , and the sign need not exceed the thing signified . the washing away sin by the blood of christ is the thing signified in baptism , and this the holy ghost delights to express by washing , sprinkling , or pouring out water , psal . 51.7 . ezek. 36.25 . zec. 12.10 . 1 cor. 6.11 . tit. 3.5 . 1 pet. 1.2 . heb. 9. and 12.24 . quest . but did not the apostles baptize by dipping ? did not philip and the eunuch go down into the water ? ans . 1. it was never yet proved that persons were then dipped . as for philip's baptism , act. 8.38 . the particular manner is not exprest , neither can it be collected ; neither doth the greek preposition 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , necessarily signify going into , but rather unto the water , as it 's frequently rendered in other places , matt. 15.24 . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , unto the lost sheep : so in all these and many other places , matth. 26.10 . john 6.9.13.1 . 1 cor. 10.2 . 2 pet. 4.7 . so that into , and out of the water , seems to be no more than unto , and from the water . travellers tell us it was in the village bethsara , where was a very small fountain , not sufficient to dip in . 2. the multitude john and the apostles baptized , it 's highly probable it was never done by dipping , matth. 3.5 , 6. nay almost impossible it should , for these two reasons . 1. the extream scarcity of water ; water was extream scarce in those hot countreys , that there was not water to dip such multitudes in ; enon , where john was baptizing , there was not much water ; 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , is but oculus , an eye , a very little fountain ; none in probability to dip a multitude in . and so likewise acts 2.41 . when three thousand persons were baptized ; st. peter began to preach about the third hour of the day , which was about nine of the clock ; these three thousand were converted by this sermon , and were all baptized the same day ; it must needs be for on before they began to baptize , and there was no river near jerusalem but the brook cedron , which travellers tell us , was in summer but a dry ditch , therefore 't is highly improbable that either john or the apostles baptized by dipping . 2. from the multitude of people that were baptized : we do not find john had any to help him to baptize , and is it likely he could dip such multitudes ? and is it to be imagined that three thousand persons could be converted ; prepared for , and be baptized , by dipping , in a few hours . 3. if they were dipped , it must be either naked , or in their cloaths . 1. it 's very unlikely they were dipped naked , for this would be very immodest for ministers to baptize women and maids naked ; a means to stir up lust and unclean affections , and so a breach of the seventh commandment , thou shalt not commit adultery ; which forbids all unchast thoughts , words and actions ; now to look on a woman's nakedness is an unchast action , expresly forbidden , lev. 20.17 . and for this reason god would not have the priest go up to the altar by steps , gen. 28.42 . besides , there was a mixt multitude of men and women baptized together ; and if they were naked , they must see one another's nakedness , which would have been an horrible reproach to religion . 2. if they were dipped in their cloaths , it was either in all their cloaths , or some provided for the purpose . if in all their cloaths , is it at all likely that they should go up and down in the wet cloaths ; and that would not be dipping , to speak properly , but soaking . or was it in some cloaths only ? as some light under garment , or something provided for the purpose ? there would be much immodesty in it , and it would be little better than naked : besides , where must this multitude have cloaths for the purpose ? must they go home and fetch them , and provide them ? for they designed no such thing when they came together , nay , many of them lived at a very great distance . let mens imaginations work which way soever , it will appear extreamly unlikely that there was any dipping in their baptizing ; that which is most probable , is , that john the baptist , and the apostle , went unto the water , or it may be , into it , with their feet , wearing nothing but sandals , and so with their hands did take up water and sprinkle , or pour on the persons to be baptized . and how much less probability is there , that in the baptizing of housholds , as the jailor's in the night , lydia , cornelius , and others , that there was any dipping ? 4. if it were clearly demonstrated , which never was yet done , that persons were baptized by dipping ; yet would it be proved but occasional in those hot countreys . there is no precept or command for it ; and therefore it would be no way binding to us , no more than our lord's administring his last supper in an inn , and in an upper room , in the evening , to none but men and ministers , doth oblige us to do so ; christ having no-where appointed the quantity of water in baptism , no more than the quantity of bread and wine in the lord's supper . 't is neither the quantity of water in the one , nor of bread and wine in the other , that gives efficacy to the ordinance . obj. but if it be god's way , we must do it , whatever be said against it . ans . this is but to beg the question ; moreover , we have proved it is not god's way . obj. but say they , the significancy is not sufficiently exprest , unless we are dipped in the water , rom. 6.4 . we are buried with him by baptism into death ; which place the anabaptists produce to prove baptism by dipping , as also the necessity of it ; whereas neither can be hence proved . the apostle's design there , is to engage christians to forsake and put off sin , as is evident , v. 1. the argument he uses to enforce this is , that in their baptism they were baptized into christ , into the likeness of his death , and were so buried with him in baptism , v. 3 , 4. so that as christ dyed for sin , by their covenant-engagement they were to dye to sin , and rise to newness of life : so that what the apostle here argues from , is our baptismal covenanting with god , which doth not necessarily suppose dipping . obj. but the apostle alludes to the custom of going under the water . ans . how doth that appear ? they must prove the custom , before they can prove this is an allusion to the custom ; so that this text doth not prove the custom ; and the apostle's discourse may be well understood without it : and if the custom be owned , yet the necessity of dipping doth not thence follow . other scriptures allude to sprinkling ; we may as well thence infer , the absolute necessity of the custom of sprinkling , as 1 cor. 10.2 . where it 's said , that the children of israel were all baptized unto moses in the cloud , and in the sea , or as the words may be read together , with moses by the cloud in the sea , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 sometimes being so rendered , luke 4.1 . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , by the spirit ; so they were baptized by sprinkling ( for a cloud doth but sprinkle ) ; by the cloud , i. e. by christ who was this cloud , or else appeared in this cloud , as is evident from exod. 13.21 , 22. this was at least a figure and type of baptism ; and in several other texts . application . is this so , that that covenant of grace made with abraham , whereof circumcision then was , and baptism now is the seal , is a covenant which comprehends all believers , and all their children ? here is then a fourfould use to be made of it : 1. of information . 2. examination . 3. exhortation . 4. consolation . 1. use shall be of information in three things . 1. this informs us of the infinite condescention and goodness of god , that when the first covenant of works was violated , and the way to heaven for ever barr'd up against the sinner , there being no possibility of ever getting to heaven that way , it should please the lord to make a new covenant , a covenant of grace , a new and living way to the father : o what love and grace is this ! john 3.14 , 15 , 16. now the infinite grace of god in this second covenant , appears in these two things . 1. that herein god doth not stand on the old terms , do this and live ; the law required perfect personal obedience ; but now in this new covenant god is pleased to accept of the obedience and righteousness of another in our stead , even jesus christ , 2 cor. 5.21 . he hath made him to be sin for us who knew no sin , that we might be made the righteousness of god in him . 2. that god doth not only command few and easie things , as the condition of this new covenant , viz. repentance towards god , and faith towards our lord jesus christ , acts 20.21 . but doth freely promise his holy spirit to work these and all other covenant-qualifications in us , ezek. 36.25 , 26 , 27. 2. this informs us of the infinite mercy of god to us , that we live under the new covenant , that god should offer christ and salvation in a covenant-way to us : o let us admire grace ! what are we that god should reveal himself to us , and not to the world ! matt. 11.25 , 26. i thank thee , o father , — that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent , and hast revealed them to babes : even so father , for so it seemed good in thy sight . 3. this informs us what a fearful condemnation will befall those who refuse to accept of christ and salvation on covenant-terms , heb. 10.28 , 29. he that despised moses law , dyed without mercy ; of how much sorer punishment shall he be thought worthy , who hath trodden under foot the son of god , and counted the blood of the covenant wherewith he was sanctified , an unholy thing , and hath done despite to the spirit of grace . 2. use of examination , is there a covenant of grace ? then examine your selves what interest you have in it ; if you are in this covenant , you are a happy people ; then every promise in the covenant belongs to you ; but if you are out of this covenant , your case is dreadful . quest . how may i know whether i am in covenant or no ? ans . 1. have you done all those things that are necessary to an external visible covenanting with jesus christ ? and these are 1. knowledg in , and acquaintance with the gospel-covenant ; you can never covenant with jesus christ , until you know the terms , john 17.3 . this is life eternal , to know thee the only true god , and jesus christ . 2. have you entered your selves into this covenant by baptism ? have you put your hand to the plow , and owned christ in that seal of the covenant ? 3. do you live in an awful discharge of such external and visible duties the covenant requires , such as prayer , eph. 6.18 . sanctifying the lord's day , attendance on god in all ordinances , &c. 2. have you those internal graces , and do you perform those internal invisible duties the covenant requires ? if you have , then you are certainly in covenant , and all the promises in the covenant belong to you , isa . 57.15 . to this man will i look , which is of an humble and contrite spirit , and trembles at my word . john 3.16 . matt. 11.28 . come to me you that labour and are heavy laden . have you that new heart , promised ezek. 36.26 . those graces mentioned mat. 5.3 , 4 , 5 , 6. if you have these in truth , then are you in covenant . 3. use of exhortation , is there a covenant of grace in which believers and their chidren are comprehended ? then be exhorted , 1. to bless and admire free-grace that hath given you such a covenant ; o what mercy is this to us and our children ! that god will call our children his children ; and our sons and daughters , his sons and daughters , ezek. 16.20 , 21. 2. live and act as those who are in covenant , phil. 1.27 . only let your conversation be as becomes the gospel of christ . 3. secure your interest in it , and be often calling your selves to an account whether or no you have an interest in it . 4. learn to live upon this covenant ; fetch all your comforts and encouragements from it in all distresses , heb. 13.5 . be content with such things as you have , for he hath said , i will not leave thee nor forsake thee . 5. are your children in covenant ? then dedicate them to christ in the covenant , has god taken them in ? gen. 17.7 . acts 2.29 . then do not you cast them out , but do as hannah did , first beg a child from the lord , and vow a vow to dedicate this child to god , 1 sam. 1.10 , 11. god calls them his , ezek. 16.20 , 21. and will you dare to withhold from god his own ? how will you answer it at his tribunal another day ? 6. o pray down covenant-mercy on your children as hannah did , and as monica , austin's mother did : o pray hard for your children . 4th . use of consolation ; is there a covenant-grace which comprehends all believers , and all their actions ; o soul ! art thou in this covenant ? then for thy eternal comfort be it spoken , 1. thou shalt never want any temporal good thing , there is food and and raiment , provision and protection in the covenant , heb. 13.5 . be content with such things as you have , for he hath said , i will never leave thee nor forsake thee . 2. thou shalt never finally lose thy grace , or be cast out of covenant , prov. 8.18 . phil. 1.6 . 1 pet. 1.23 . jer. 32.40 . and i will make an everlasting covenant with them , that i will not turn away from them , to do them good , but i will put my fear into their hearts , that they may not depart from me . 3. heaven and eternal glory is thine as sure by this covenant , as if thou wast already in it , 1 john 5.11 , 12. this is the promise he hath promised us , eternal life . the end ▪ a contention for truth: in two several publique disputations. before thousands of people, at clement dane church, without temple barre: upon the 19 of nevemb. [sic] last: and upon the 26 of the same moneth. betweene mr gunning of the one part, and mr denne on the other. concerning the baptisme of infants; whether lawful, or unlawful. gunning, peter, 1614-1684. this text is an enriched version of the tcp digital transcription a85777 of text r202279 in the english short title catalog (thomason e963_1). textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. the text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with morphadorner. the annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. this text has not been fully proofread approx. 100 kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from 27 1-bit group-iv tiff page images. earlyprint project evanston,il, notre dame, in, st. louis, mo 2017 a85777 wing g2234 thomason e963_1 estc r202279 99862623 99862623 114788 this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons 0 1.0 universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase 1, no. a85777) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set 114788) images scanned from microfilm: (thomason tracts ; 143:e963[1]) a contention for truth: in two several publique disputations. before thousands of people, at clement dane church, without temple barre: upon the 19 of nevemb. [sic] last: and upon the 26 of the same moneth. betweene mr gunning of the one part, and mr denne on the other. concerning the baptisme of infants; whether lawful, or unlawful. gunning, peter, 1614-1684. denne, henry, 1606 or 7-1660? [6], 46 p. printed by j. moxon, for francis smith, and are to be sold at his shop, in flying horse court in fleetstreet, neer chancery lane end. and by john sweeting, at the signe of the angel, in popes head alley, london : 1658. running title reads: whether infant baptisme be lawfull, or unlawfull. annotation on thomason copy: "decemb: 18th"; "xber 18". reproduction of the original in the british library. eng infant baptism -early works to 1800. a85777 r202279 (thomason e963_1). civilwar no a contention for truth:: in two several publique disputations. before thousands of people, at clement dane church, without temple barre: up gunning, peter 1658 17778 19 160 0 0 0 0 101 f the rate of 101 defects per 10,000 words puts this text in the f category of texts with 100 or more defects per 10,000 words. 2007-04 tcp assigned for keying and markup 2007-04 aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images 2007-06 robyn anspach sampled and proofread 2007-06 robyn anspach text and markup reviewed and edited 2008-02 pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a contention for truth : in two several publique disputations . before thousands of people , at clement dane church , without temple barre : upon the 19 of nevemb . last : and upon the 26 of the same moneth . betweene mr gunning of the one part , and mr denne on the other . concerning the baptisme of infants ; whether lawfvl , or vnlawfvl . the inspiration of the almighty , giveth vnderstanding . great men are not alwayes wise ; neither do the aged understand judgement . job . 32. 8 , 9. london . printed by j. moxon , for francis smith , and are to be sold at his shop , in flying horse court in fleet-street , neer chancery lane end . and by john sweeting , at the signe of the angel . in popes head alley . 1658. to the reader . is there no end of writing books ? have not our ears been filled , and our eyes wearied with hearing and reading , touching this subject , both pro and contra ? are not the later writers in behalfe of infants baptisme , very many , viz. cardinal bellarmine , and a great number of the sons of the church of rome : who have in this point , dealt as ingeniously , as pithily , as ever any that took up the defence of it could do ? have we not often heard of it from the pens of the reformers ; in the infancy of their reformation ? viz. luther , melancthon , calvin : with a great number of late doctors and masters : viz. featly , marshall , goodwin , fuller , baxter , audley , with others ? have we not had also many who have laboured not a little on the opposite party ? and both by their pens and suffrings testified against the baptisme of infants : as morton , with some others contemporary ; the ministers of transylvania : and since of later years , blackwell , tombes , cornwall , fisher , lamb senior , lamb , junior , writer , haggar , with many others , who will not be offended because they are not named ? have the protestants of late said any thing more then the papists before them ? or will this book tell us one thing more then either protestant or papist , hath not formerly declared ? on the other hand , what can be said more effectually to prove the baptisme of infants to bear an humane stamp , and superscription , and not divine , then hath been said over , and again ? what need then of this book ? patience good reader , and know it is neither any conceit of the impotency of those that have written before , or of the excellency of any thing herein contained , above what hath been before written ; that hath occasioned me to shew this to the world : but that the importunity of friends might be satisfied , and the mouths of lying adversaries might be stopped , that they may be shamed out of those slanderous reports , whereof they have been coyners . thou hast here the relation of the discourses that passed between mr. gunning , and my self . i cannot warrant it in every tittle perfect , but as fully , impartially , as i am able to give thee : this i will affirm , that willingly i have omitted nothing , that might conduce to the making his arguments , or answers seem valid . indeed i did wish , i could have shewed thee this discourse in a more perfect form then it is ; and i did wish it heartily : and for the same purpose i did write unto mr. gunning , declaring mine intentions to send my papers to the press ; and intreating his favour to come to my house ( in regard i was not able to stir abroad ) and to put to his file : if any thing were omitted , it should be inserted : if any thing were inserted , that was not spoken , it should be expunged : declaring also that i would wait for him four or five daies . i did wait twelve daies ; and at last i received from him ( not by writing , but by word ) that he could not come ; if i pleased , i might proceed : and if i did any injury to him , hee would let the world know of it . thus when i could not do as i would , i was forced to do what i was able to do . i have here propounded to thy consideration , the matter as well as i can . read , and in the presence of the lord , ( setting prejudice aside ) consider what mr. gunning hath produced that is of greater weight then those arguments men have formerly written : i leave thee to the perusall of the book ; at the latter end whereof , thou hast an account of some arguments that i had intended for to have urged at that time . consider them also with the rest , and let the readers ( that can ) pray unto the god of peace , that hee would cause the sun of righteousness to arise ; that divisions may cease : and all that fear the lord may be of one lipp , and of one heart serving the lord in godly simplicity , and sincerity . amen . a conference between a and b : wherein is contained an impartiall relation of a disputation holden at clement danes , two several dayes . viz. on the 19th day of november , and on the 26th day of the same moneth : between mr. gunning , and mr. denne . concerning the lawfulness or unlawfulness of children baptisme . a my dear friend , i rejoyce very heartily to see you in health , and to enjoy your society this day : and so much the more , because i have heard that you were present at a dispute , two several dayes at clement danes , concerning the baptisme of infants ; whether it be to be accounted lawful , or unlawful . concerning which dispute i have heard reports so different , that i find it a matter of difficulty to find a ground for credence ; i desire your gentleness not to deny my request , but to grant me so much favour as to make me partakers of your apprehensions of the whole matter . that by your impartiall relation of the transactions of both dayes , i may find some good assurance of confidence . b it is no wonder that you should hear various and uncertain reports , both of this , or other disputes of like sort : seeing that unto such like meetings as these are , the greatest part come with prejudice upon their spirits , judging before they have heard , and determining the whole matter before it begin . some bringing with them hearts fraught with envy , anger , and malice : insomuch that if they could , they would not , and if they would they could not , sincerely discern the truth of matters propounded . if it may prove a thing acceptable in your eys ; i will not refuse to relate unto you the sum of the matter : so far as my memory can comprehend : i shall not willingly omit any thing material . as for words which might well have been spared on both sides , i shall take no notice of them at all . a i pray begin , and i shall lend an attentive ear . b i will first declare unto you the occasion of this dispute , which was this : a gentlewoman , who had ( through mercy ) set her heart seriously to seek the lord and his face , with resolution to walk in his wayes , was not a little troubled in spirit about the many differences in and about worship , amongst those that profess the name of the lord : shee looked upon her former wayes as evill , and to be forsaken ; but what to embrace shee knows not ; forasmuch as so soon as shee had passed through the doctrine of repentance from dead works , and faith towards god ( in which the present differences of the men of these times have created no smal difficulties ) shee meets with a great controversie about the doctrine of baptisme , which drives her into a strait ; and shee remains divided in her thoughts ; not being able to resolve her self , whether her infant baptisme were of god , or whether it were contrary to truth , being none other but tradition of men , a will worship , and by consequence vain and unprofitable . while thus shee remains uncertain , not knowing to which part to adhere whether to those who professing the faith of the lord jesus do maintain and uphold the baptisme of infants , or whether it were not her duty to repair to a baptised congregation , to require baptisme at their hands . if shee make her addresses to counsellours , one sayeth thus : fear not your baptisme is good and valid . another tels her that her infant , baptisme is not of god : both these use arguments , and demonstrations and reasons , which captivate her understanding , that shee discerns not in her self , what to imbrace , or what to eschew : and finding at present no way to deliver her self from this condition , is very desirous a conference may be had between parties on both sides , about this matter ; to the end that what shee could not be throughly perswaded of in her mind when shee heard them speaking asunder , might ( through grace ) be happily obtained by hearing them speak friendly together . this was the occasion of the meeting : and mr. gunning ( whether solicited by intreaty of others , or moved voluntarily , i know not certainly ) was pleased to take the business upon himself , on the one part , to defend the lawfullness of infants baptisme ; and mr. denne on the other part , yeelded himself to oppugn the baptisme of infants . two dayes were appoynted for this conference : the first day was on the 19th of november last , when they met at the place before appoynted : and mr. denne whose part it was that day to be the respondent , stood up in the pulpit , and intreating the multitude to be silent , and to behave themselves civilly , and orderly , and craving attention he spake . res . one there is who desireth to be informed whether the baptisme of infants be lawfull , or unlawfull : i declare that the baptisme of infants is vnlawfull . b after him stood up mr. gunning , in an opposite gallery , and spake . oppo . i will prove the baptisme of infants to be lawfull ; thus , that which the supream lawgiver of the church hath given in command to his immediate officers in the church , by a perpetual sanction , and unalterable decree , to be by them practised , is lawfull : but the baptisme of infantsis by the supream lawgiver of the church given in command to his immediate officers , by a perpetual sanction , and unalterable decree , to be by them and their successors practised : therefore the baptisme of infants is lawfull . a this is a very long syllogisme : i wonder a learned man should use so many words , which must needs procure more disadvantage then advantage ; for most times in multitude of words there is error . b indeed many of his syllogismes were long , and shard to be repeated : therefore i cannot promise to rehearse them verbatim , only i will not willingly leave out any word which is materiall , or may be for the opponents advantage . a i think the sum of this may be gathered into fewer words , thus : that which christ hath commanded to be practised is lawfull : but christ hath commanded baptisme of infants to be practised , therefore baptisme of infants is lawfull : but let me hear the answer . res . i deny the minor , and do say , christ never commanded baptisme of infants to be practised , either by his immediate officers , or any other of their successors . opp. i will prove that it is the will and command of the supream lawgiver that infants should be baptised . if the supream lawgiver would have infants to be saved , and they cannot be saved without baptisme ( or desire of baptisme in parents or friends , ) then is it his will and command that they should be baptised : but the supream lawgiver would have infants to be saved , and they cannot be saved without baptisme . therefore it is his will that they should be baptised : for he that willeth the end , willeth also the means conducing to that end . res . the minor i answer in the first place , freely granting that it is the will of jesus christ that infants should be saved : but saying that infants may be saved without baptisme , or without desire of baptisme in their parents , or any other for them . a doe you think that the opponent speaketh his own thoughts ? or doth he speak it for disputation sake , when he sayth children cannot be saved without batisme ? b questionless he speaketh his own thoughts , even as he is perswaded in heart , that no infant can be saved without baptisme , or desire ( at least ) of the parents or friends to have the child baptised . but hear his proof whereby he proves infants cannot be saved without baptisme , or desire of baptisme . oppo . john . 3. 5th . verily , verily i say unto thee , except any one be born again of water and of the spirit ▪ he cannot enter into the kingdome of god . these are christ words to nicodemus a ruler of the jews , who came to christ to enquire of the way of god : and they are confirmed with an oath doubled , except any one : that is man woman or child , none are excepted , be born again of water , that is baptisme : and of the spirit , not water alone without the spirit , or spirit alone without water , but of water and of the spirit : the spirit working by water , he cannot enter into the kingdome of god ; that is he cannot be saved . none can possibly be saved except they be baptised . res . the place of scripture you have brought is allegorical , and therefore not so proper to be a ground for faith : not having one word in it to the matter in hand to be proved : which is that infants canot be saved without baptisme : now here is in this text , neither the word infant , nor baptisme , nor saved : ( if your gloss be layd aside : ) but i have three things in answer to this text , and your gloss or exposition : the first is a general rule , which will serve to answer not only this , but other arguments , that peradventure may be brought . that scriptures must be considered to whom , and of whom they speak ; and not to be applyed to any other , concerning whom it doth not speak . so you find in the quoted place , that nicodemus a ruler of the jews , comes to christ to learn the way of god , that so he might work the workes of god : to this man , christ makes answer , except a man be born again , &c. speaking neither of children , nor to children : the second answer is this : that by being born again of water , is not meant baptisme , but a mistical not a litteral water : as in many other places of scripture spoken of . thirdly , if it were granted that the text , did include children , and that by water were meant baptisme ; yet will it not follow that children can not be saved without baptisme , because here is only mention made of entering into the kingdome of god : you know that the kingdome of god hath manyfold exceptions in the scripture : sometimes it is taken for gospel preaching , sometimes for a visible church state ; mat. 13. sometimes for that happiness which men and women ( and not infants ) do enjoy through beleeving rom. 14. 17. the kingdom of god is not meat or drink ; but righteousness , and peace , and joy in the holy ghost . this kingdom infants do not enter into , although they should be baptised ; neither can they enter so long as they continue infants . now if water here do mean baptisme , it will infer no more but this ; that except any one be baptised he cannot enter into a church state , or he cannot enjoy righteousness and peace , and joy , in the holy ghost . these are three answers i have for this text . oppo . i will prove your first answer to be insufficient . res . take notice that if you can prove two of them insufficient , yet if the third stand good , it sufficiently answers your argument . oppo . i will prove in the first place , that children are here meant and included . the text sayth {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} except any one ; it comprehends all : none exempted . res . we find many propositions in scripture , spoken as generally as this , where the scripture speakes only to men : and you your self will confess that children are not included : as mat. 16. 24. if any one will come after me , let him take up his cross : &c. mark 8. 34. and mat. 10. 38. he that taketh not up his cross , and followeth me ; is not worthy of me . these and many more places you will confess are not spoken of children : john 3 , 36. he that beleeveth on the son , hath everlasting life : and he that beleeveth not the son , shall not see life . oppo . have you a greek testament ? i pray look the place : as i remember the word in that place is {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , he that rejecteth or rebelleth against the gospell of jesus christ , which children do not . res . i do confess the word is so indeed , and i do acknowledge a difference between {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} and {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} a child cannot be called {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} but a child may be sayd to be {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} not a beleever : therefore i refer you to the 18 vers . of that chap. he that beleeveth not , is condemned already ; and unto 1. john 5. 10. he that beleeveth not , hath made him a lyar : in both which places children are not included . opp. it is true that children are not included in these texts : but here are many reasons in the context , whereby it may evidently be proved that they are not meant of children , but of men and women of years of discretion : but you are not able to prove by the context in the third of john that children are not included in the word any man . res . it s not my duty to prove any thing at this time ; it is my part to answer , and your part to prove , or disprove : when i am to be the opponent i shall prove that children cannot be here included : for the present it is sufficient for me to deny it . oppo . for your second answer , i will prove that by water ( in this place alledged ) is meant litteral water : it is plain , the scripture cals it water , plain water : besides in the 22th vers . is rehearsed , christ tarrying with his disciples , and baptising ; and in the 23 vers . john also was baptising in enon near to salim ; because there was much water there : here by water is meant literal water , and plain water : and where can you find in the scripture , especially in the new testament , that by water is meant any other thing but literal water , unless the text doe declare it to be allegorical ? as out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water : where presently the text adds , this spake he of the spirit ? besides , the constant tradition of the church , and the unanimous consent of the fathers , did interpret this place of literal water , and of baptisme : even tertullian himself , who is the man that is principally urged by you , doth interpret this text in the same manner , except any one be baptised with water and the spirit , he cannot be saved . res . i answer first of all , it is no reason that it should be meant literall water here in the first vers because literall water is spoken of in the 22 and 23 verses : for those words are a report of what was done at another time , and in another place : and hath no reference to this matter at all . secondly that the scripture is frequent in using the word water allegorically , is very plain , as esay . 51. 1. come to the waters . john 4. 10. he would have given thee living water . and as i deny not but in the places alledged by you , water is taken literally : so may it be evidenced that it is very frequent in the scriptures to take water mistically , and the sence in this place will be very good , with this interpretation . thirdly , whereas you say that all ancient writers were of this mind , even tertullian himself . i say that cannot be , that tertullian should be of your mind , that infants could not be saved without water baptisme : for he himself ( who was the first that ever mentioned infants baptisme in writing ) doth reprove it . oppo . tertullian was not the first that mentioned infants baptisme , for justin martyr makes mention of it , in his apologie : and you can never find in all tertullian that he sayth infants baptisme is vnlawfull . res . justin martyr never once mentioned infants baptisme : for tertullian , i do not say he sayth in so many words , that infants baptisme is unlawfull : but in a sermon of his , intituled qui sunt baptizandi , who are to be baptised : he indeavours to perswade parents to keep their children from baptisme , untill they were capable of it : you will not sayth he , trust them with earthly treasures , untill they know how to use them ; why then will you trust them with the heavenly ? ( speaking of baptisme : ) and sayth he fiant christiani cum christum nosse potuerint : let them be made christians when they are able to know christ : and one thing more i must tell you , that when i did first read this sermon of tertullian , i met with one passage which i did not understand ; neither could i make any sence of it : wherefore i consulted one that had written notes upon tertullian , and he plainly confesseth that those words were added by him to this end : vt authoris sententiam mitigarem , that might qualifie the opinion of the authour , concerning baptisme : where you see what fair dealing we have had with the writings of the ancients : when an index expurgatorius hath passed upon them , and expunged ( by confession ) many hundred sentences : and who knows how many they have inserted ? oppo . i can make it plain out of tertullian , that he alloweth the baptisme of infants , in case of necessitie , and danger of death : besides it is known tertullian was an heretique and died an heretique . but i shall refer to the auditors what hath been said unto this argument . you have said any one , doth not include all , and that water is not literall water : i will proceed to another argument , to prove the lawfullness of infant baptisme . a there was yet nothing spoken to the third answer of the respondent , which is of as great consequence as any of the other : and if the other were of no force , yet if that stand good , the argument is of no force : it was this , that supposing the text alledged , did speak of baptising ; yet by entring into the kingdome of heaven , is meant no other thing then a state of happiness , which beleevers do attain unto here in this life , through faith in christ jesus , viz. righteousness , and peace , and joy in the holy ghost . b i suppose the opponent had forgotten to refell it : and the answerer , had also forgotten to call for it . let us hear the opponent prosecuting a second argument . oppo . that which is no sin for parents to require , and for ministers to perform being required , is lawfull . but it is no sin for parents to require baptisme for their infants ▪ neither for ministers to perform it being required : therefore the baptisme of infants is lawfull . res . i deny the minor . it is a sin for parents to require , and for ministers to administer baptisme to infants . oppo . that which is confirmed by an everlasting law , and standing commission , not to be altered to the end of the world , is no sin for parents to require , or for ministers to perform . but the baptisme of infants is confirmed by an everlasting law , and standing commission , not to be altered to the end of the world : therefore it cannot be sin in parents to require , or in ministers to performe , being required . res . i deny the minor , and say , there is no commission authorizing parents to require , or ministers to administer baptisme to infants , being required . oppo . the commission is mat. 28. 18 , 19 , 20. all power is given to me in heaven and in earth ▪ go ye therefore , and make disciples of all nations , baptizing them in the name of the father , and of the son , and of the holy ghost : teaching them to observe all things that i have commanded you : and lo , i am with you always , even unto the end of the world . amen . here the apostles are commanded to make diciples of all nations , baptising them , and then teaching them . here it is plain baptising , after teaching . res . i do not deny that teaching should follow baptisme , but i deny that baptisme should go before all teaching : moreover here is not one word of parents requiring baptisme for infants ; or one word of infants being baptised : and whereas you seem to imply that the apostles should make disciples , by baptising of them . i demand of you before this assembly whether you beleeve that by vertue of this commission , by you alledged , the apostles or their successors either had , or have authority to take all nations and baptise them , whether they will or no ? whether they consent or not ? opp. no , i do not imagin so : but that they were first to make those ( that where of years of discretion ) willing , by preaching ; and then to baptise them : and those that were not of years to make them disciples , by baptising of them . res . now you say something , first make them willing ▪ and then baptise them . but you have not exprest in the commission any thing of children who are not willing : how willing children are , appears by their crying and strugling at the font . oppo . i will prove children are not unwilling , for as ignoti nulla cupido , there can be no desire or will to a thing we do not know , so neither can there be any vnwillingness to that which is unknown : now children knowing nothing of baptisme , it is not possible they should be vnwilling , seeing they know not any thing of the matter . res . you might have spared this labour : for i did not say children were unwilling : but i said they were not willing : your duty had been to prove they were willing : there is a vast difference between unwilling , and not willing : you know how willing constantinus copronymus was to be baptised , when he was an infant ; and how he came to have the name of copronymus : i can tell you the story , but i will not in this auditory . i desire you to frame a silogisme out of the text alledged , concluding that here is a commission ▪ either to baptise infants , or to require their baptisme . oppo . i will , the apostles are here commanded to make disciples of all nations : now infants who are part of the nations , cannot be made disciples any other way then by baptisme : therefore they are here commanded to make disciples by baptisme . res . first i say , you cannot prove that this commission under the title of all nations , extendeth any more to infants then that in mark 16. go preach the gospel to every creature , extendeth to infants : you will confess you have no warrant for to preach to an infant in the cradle , from this place . secondly , i deny that baptisme maketh disciples , it manifesteth one to be a disciple , it doth not make him one ▪ i pray prove if you can , that baptisme maketh any one a disciple : it is written john . 4. 1. jesus made , and baptised more disciples then john . it is one thing to make , another thing to baptise a disciple . oppo . i had thought it had been a matter of conscience , your deniall of the baptisme of infants : but now i perceive you go about to deny all baptisme . i will prove it is no sin for parents to require baptisme for their infants . where there is no law , there is no transgression ; for sin , is the transgression of a law : but there is no law forbidding parents to require baptisme for their infants , or forbidding ministers to administer baptisme to infants : therefore it is no sin either to require , or administer baptisme to infants . res . there is a law forbidding it , and that under a severe punishment . oppo . shew where that law is to be found . res . i will , deut. 18. 20. here moses prophesieth of christ in these words . a prophet shall the lord your god raise up unto you , &c. but the prophet that shall presume to speak a word in my name , which i have not commanded him &c. even that prophet shall die . mark this , one word ▪ and prover . 30. 6. add not thou to his words , lest he reprove thee , and thou be found a liar . so that until you be able to prove a command , there must needs lye a prohibition in the way . oppo . i have proved a command already , and i will further prove it . all church members may lawfully be . baptised : infants are church members , therefore infants may lawfully be baptised . res . i deny the minor . infants are no church members . oppo . the minor is thus proved ; if infants belong to the body of christ , as members of his body , then are they church members . but infants belong to the body of christ , as members of his body , therefore infants are church members . res . i deny the consequence , though they be members of christ body , yet are they not to be accounted church members . opp. if all the body of christ be church members ; then if they be of the body of christ , then are they church members : but all the body of christ are church members : therefore infants are church members . res . i deny the minor , all the body of christ are not church members . oppo . the minor is proved : ephe. 1. 23. and hath given him to be head over all things , to the church , which is his body . the father hath given christ to be head over all things to the church ▪ or in the church , which is his body . res . you do now dishonour me , in seeking to deceive my understanding : the thing you were to prove , was , that all that did belong to the body of christ , are church members : and you bring me a text to prove that all the church is the body of christ . oppo . where lyes the difference , of these two propositions ? res . the difference is very great between these two propositions . all the church is his body , and all his body is the church . as much as if i should say ; all that are in this place are freemen of london ; and all freemen of london are in this place . if you have a text that sayth , all that belong to his body are church members , let us hear that , oppo . i will prove that infants are church members . all that are called , are church members : but infants are called , therefore infants are church members . res . i deny the minor , infants are not called . oppo . all that are predestinated are called , but infants are predestinated ; therefore infants are called . res . i deny the major : all that are predestinated are not called . opp. the major is proved rom. 8. 29 , 30. vvhom he did foreknow , them he did predestinate to be conformed to the image , &c. that he might be the first-born among many brethren . moreover , whom he did predestinate , them also he called : and whom he called , them he also justified : and whom he justified , them he also glorified . out of this text it follows , that if infants be predestinate , then they are called : for whom he did predestinate , them also he called . res . the apostle speaks of such , and to such to whom he wrote this epistle . here cannot be proved that all the predestinate are called : neither do you your self beleeve it . he hath called the predestinate romans , to whom he wrote : but he hath not called all the predestinate . oppo . i will prove that infants are gods servants , and that he owns them for his servants , and calls them his servants ; and therefore they must necessarily be baptised , in regard they can do him no service at all , but by being baptised . the proof of this is levit. 25. 42. they are my servants which i brought forth of the land of egypt . that is the children , as well as men , and women : for here the lord renders a reason of his command , viz. that in the year of jubile the bondman should go free himself , and his wife , and children also . and this reason is rendred , for they are my servants , whom i brought out of the land of egypt . he speaks of reall service , such as bondmen do perform towards their masters : now if it be required in a servant to do his master service , and infants can do no other service ; then it will follow , that infants must and ought to be baptised . res . i pray you produce your syllogisme , concluding what you ought to conclude , and i shall give you answer . oppo . thus i argue , all gods servants may lawfully be baptised : children are gods servants : therefore they may lawfully be baptised . res , i deny the major ; all gods servants may not lawfully be baptised . oppo . if a servant be one who doth service , and they can do him no other service , then either they may be baptised , or else they can do god no service at all : yet god calls them servants . res . i answer in two propositions : first , infants do not perform any service to god , by being baptised . secondly , infants are gods servants , though unbaptised , or before they come to be baptised . oppo . what service do unbaptised infants do to god ? give an instance . res . they are very faithfull servants , performing all things that god requireth of them , to be performed by them . oppo . that is just nothing , they eat and drink and sleep ; this is all they perform , and all the service they can do . res . it is good service for a servant to be quiet and do nothing , when and where nothing is required : it is disservice to be busy and doing when the master requires nothing : whereas you say they eat and drink &c. i say therein they are gods servants , and that is the service god requires of them . oppo . god speaks of real service , such as bondmen require from servants : will any imagin a bondman serves his master , that eats and drinks and doth nothing else ? this is strange service . kes . surely eating and drinking by infants is a reall service ; such as masters do require , and all that they do require of their infant-servants : and this proveth very advantageous for the masters profit . suppose i buy a servant an infant for ten shillings , this infant eats and drinks , and thereby grows in stature , and i sell him for ten pound : was not his eating and drinking reall service ? doth not the ox in the pasture do the master as reall service ( though he do nothing but eat and drink ) as the ox that laboureth dayly at the plough ? there will not be any thing gained by this argument , untill you can make it appear that the eating and drinking which is performed by infants is no service of god . oppo . i will proceed to another argument : 2. cor. 5. 14 , 15. if one dyed for all , then were all dead : and that he dyed for all , that they which live , should not henceforth live unto themselves , but unto him who dyed for them , and rose again . it is plain from hence that all infants were dead , if christ dyed for them : for thus the apostle reasons : if christ dyed for all , then were all dead : but he dyed for all , and therefore for infants , as well as others ; therefore infants were dead as others . res . i confess all were dead : but what this makes to the purpose to grant unto you that infants were dead , i do not perceive as yet . oppo . if infants were dead , and it be the will of christ they should be made alive again , then may they lawfully be baptised : but infants were dead , and it is the will of christ they should be made alive again ; therefore they may lawfully be baptised . res . i deny this consequence : though they were dead , and it be the will of christ they should be made alive again ; yet may they not lawfully be baptised . oppo . he that willeth the end , must needs will the means to accomplish that end . now of christ would have infants to be made alive again , and there be no other means whereby they can be made alive , but by baptisme ; then he willeth their baptisme . but christ would have them live , and there is no other means for them to be made alive but by baptising : therefore christ willeth their baptisme . res . i deny the minor , there is other means for children to be made alive , though not by baptisme . opp. assigne that other means whereby children may be made alive . res . children are made alive without any ministerial applycation at all . being sanctified by the bloud of the covenant , shed once for all . god applying the vertue of the death , and of the resurrection of jesus christ unto them . oppo . then there needeth not any ministeriall applycation , to make children partakers of the bloud of christ , shed for them . you do undervalue baptisme , as if it were of no use at all . res . i do beleeve the baptisme of infants to be of no use at all . i do acknowledge the baptisme of beleevers to be of good use . yet not to make dead men alive : baptisme is for the living , not for the dead . oppo . another argument : that the father hath given infants to christ , cannot be denied . for. all that the father giveth me , commeth unto me , john 6. 37. and if infants be given by the father to christ , then they must needs come to christ : and if they come to christ , it must be either by faith , repentance , or baptisme : for there can be no other way assigned , whereby any should come unto christ . res . do you not remember that i gave you a general rule , in the answer to your first argument , very necessary for the right understanding of scripture ? namely , that we must consider of whom , and to whom , the scripture speaks ? and you will find that in this place alledged , the scripture speaks of those persons to whom ( at that time our saviour speak those words ; and cannot be applyed to any persons at any time . in the 36th vers . jesus said unto them , ye have seen me , and beleeve not : all that the father giveth me , will or shall come unto me . if you think this answer sufficeth not , frame a syllogisme from the place . oppo . if infants come unto christ , then they ought to be baptised : but infants come unto christ : therefore infants are to be baptised . res . i deny the consequence , though infants do come unto christ ( in some sence ) though not in the sence of that place alledged ) yet need they not therefore to be baptised . oppo . if there be no other way for them to come , but by baptisme , then if they come they must needs be baptised . but there is no other way for them to come to christ but by baptisme . therefore if they come they must needs be baptised . res . i deny the minor . there is another way for infants to come to christ , then by baptising . oppo . if there be no other way to come unto christ , but by faith , repentance , or baptisme ; and infants cannot come unto christ by faith , or repentance : therefore they must needs come by baptisme , or not at all . res . i deny the minor ▪ there is some other way to come unto christ , then by faith , repentance , or baptisme . oppo . assigne another way for children to come unto christ . res . christ jesus is the second adam , the heavenly adam : as truly as all infants where dead in the loyns of the first and earthly adam , so truly are all infants spiritually in the loyns of the second and heavenly adam . in the first adam they were by a naturall union : in the second by a spirituall union : by vertue whereof they are sanctified by the bloud of the covenant , and made partakers of grace and favour with god , without any ministeriall application ; and so made alive in the second adam . oppo . you cannot prove what you say to be true . res . it sufficeth me at this time that you cannot prove it false : it is my duty now to answer : when it falls to my lot to prove , i shall prove what is or may be required of me . oppo . i will urge you with what is writen in the 1 corinth . 10. chap. 1 , 2 , 3. vers. all our fathers were under the cloud ; and all passed thorow the sea : and were all baptised unto moses in the cloud , and in the sea : and did all eat the same spirituall meat : and did all drink the same spirituall drink : ( for they drank of that spirituall rock that followed them : and that rock was christ . ) but with many of them god was not well pleased ; for they were overthrown in the wilderness . now these things were our examples , or types or figures , and in the 11. vers. all these things hapned unto them for types . here you see their baptisme was a type of our baptisme . in that baptisme men women and children were baptised unto moses : therefore in our baptisme men women and children ought to be baptised . res . first i say , the text doth not say men women and children , but all our fathers . secondly it may be made plain by the text , that infants were not baptised unto moses in the sea : for it is said , they did all eat and drink the same spiritual meat , &c. you cannot affirm that infants did eat and drink spiritually . the text speaks not of children . thirdly , it is not the apostles intent to declare that their baptisme was a type of ours : but that their punishments were figures and types , and written for our admonition . oppo . he saith in the 6th vers . these things happened unto them for examples , and in the 11. vers. all these things happened unto them for types . res . yea all their punishments , for look in the 6th vers . these things were our examples ( he saith not to the intent that we should baptise infants , as they baptised them ) but to the intent we should not lust . it is no mo●● in effect but this . no priviledges how great soever can exempt men ( that are sinfull , and depart from the lord ) from suffering of punishment : christ hath given you great and many priviledges , as he did to the people of the jews ; yet do not you presume , for as they did not escape when they sinned ; no more shall you . oppo . 2 thess. 2. 15. brethren stand fast , and hold the traditions which yee have been taught ; whether by word , or our epistle . the apostle gives command to the church that they should hold the traditions ; nor that i do approve of vain traditions , which are the commandements of men ; but such traditions as are apostolical ; delivered by the apostles themselves , are to be held by the church : even as those things which were delivered in writing . as apostolical traditions are to be kept and hold ; and so lawfull . but the baptisme of infants is an apostolical tradition . res . i deny the minor , baptisme of infants is no apostolical tradition . oppo . augustin saith that the church always held it from the apostles times : meaning the baptisme of infants : the same is generally acknowledged by the ancients ; whose severall testimonies i can produce here . res . this was austins opinion . and yet notwithstanding erasmus who laboured much in austin : and ludovicus vives , who was very well skilled in his doctrine ; neither of these beleeved the thing to be true ; neither were they convinced by his opinion : but both of them thought the contrary , moreover you know what i have told you before out of tertullian , and gregory nazianzen : i think it needless to repeat the same things again . b after this there followed another argument , which was altogether the same with the first : and therefore i shall not repeat it unto you . thus ended the dispute of the first day of meeting : it was then concluded that they should meet again the next week , upon the same day . b on the second day being the 26th day of november , the disputants met together again : at which time , mr. denne was the opponent , and mr. gunning the respondent : who having taken his place , began to speak . res . one who desires to be informed touching the baptisme of infants , whether it be lawfull or unlawfull : i affirm the baptisme of infants to be lawfull . oppo . i will prove the baptisme of infants to be vnlawfull . if the baptisme of infants be lawfull ; it is either for some reasons delivered by you , or some other : but not for any reason delivered by you , or any other : therefore the baptisme of infants is not lawfull . res . the minor is denied : infants baptisme is lawfull , for reasons by me delivered . oppo . if it be lawfull for reasons by you delivered ; then it is either for the reasons delivered from tradition , or from scripture : but neither for the reasons from tradition , nor from scripture : therefore it is not lawfull for any reasons delivered by you . res . for both , namely , both from tradition , and from scripture . oppo . if one of these reasons overthrow the other , then it cannot be lawfull for both : but one of these reasons overthrow the other : therefore it cannot be lawfull for both . res . i deny the minor , one of them doth not overthrow the other . oppo . if tradition overthrow your scripture reasons , then one overthrows the other : but tradition overthrows your scripture reasons . therefore one overthrows the other . res . tradition doth not overthrow scripture reasons . oppo . it is generally held by the tradition of the ancients that baptisme of infants cannot be proved by scripture : and the most part of those that maintained the baptisme of infants , did acknowledge that it could not be proved by scripture , but tradition . res . i deny it , for tertullian and austin , do both prove it by scripture : for tertullian interpreting these words of st. john , except a man be born again of water , and of the spirit , he cannot enter into the kingdome of heaven : sayth , that to be born again of water and of the spirit , is to be baptised : except a man be baptised , he cannot enter into the kingdome of heaven . and st. austin sayth the same , in divers places . oppo . as for tertullian , he is not to be reckoned among the men that maintained the baptisme of infants ▪ for without doubt he opposed it : and you your self did say when i alledged tertullians words , that he was an heretique : as for austin , it was his authority that i intended to alledge : who hath these words : take away tradition , and the baptisme of infants will fall to the ground . the like may be found in most authors of former ages . you know this to be true . res . they did not hereby deny the validity of the scripture , to prove infants baptisme : but their meaning was , that without tradition the sence and meaning of the scripture could not appear : as , except a man be born again of water and of the spirit , he cannot enter into the kingdome of god : we could not have known , that to be born again of water , had meant to be baptised , unless tradition had given this interpretation of that text . oppo . then you grant that without interpretation beyond the letter , infants baptisme is not to be found in scripture . i will leave this , and come to your scripture reasons . and first for your great piller john 3. i argue thus . if infants cannot be born again of water and of the spirit ( while they remain infants ) then this reason of yours is voyd : but infants , while they remain infants , cannot be born again of water and of the spirit . therefore this reason of yours is voyd . res . infants can be born again of water and of the spirit . opp. if infants be born again of water and of the spirit ; then are they spirit , and born of god : but infants are not spirit , neither born of god : therefore are they not born again of water , and of the spirit . res . i deny the minor : infants are spirit , and born of god . oppo . first , i will prove infants are not spirit . in every one that is spirit or born of the spirit , there is some evident demonstration and alteration whereby they may be known to be born of the spirit : but in infants there is no alteration nor evident demonstration whereby they may be known to be born of the spirit , or to be spirit : therefore they are neither spirit , nor born of the spirit . res . that infants are born of the spirit , is de fide , a matter of faith ; and that is far above all demonstration : it is not necessary that there should be a demonstration , whereby every one that is born of the spirit should be manifested so to be . oppo . then are they not like the wind : which though we know not whence it comes , nor whether it goes ; yet we hear the sound , and feel the effect : and the text saith , so is every one that is born of the spirit . res . we know not whence the wind commeth , nor whether it goeth : so we know not the manner how , but yet we have it de fide faith without ground is but fancy , and no faith : oppo . but i will prove in the next place , that infants are not born of god , though i account them the happiest of living creatures . if infants be born of god , then they overcome the world : but infants do not overcome the world : therefore they are not born of god . res . it sufficeth that infants are not overcome by the world : the world doth not combate with them : name your text . opp. if there be no combate ; there can be no conquest . but the text saith 1. john 5. 4. whatsoever is born of god , overcommeth the world . &c. res . it appeareth by the context , that this is not to be understood of children , but of men and women ; of such as love god and keep his commandements , of such as beleeve in god , and by faith have victory over the world : who is he that overcommeth the world , but he that beleeveth that jesus is the son of god ? oppo . these words are not to the purpose , i do not say they are meant of children . but i say they are meant of every thing that is born of god : every thing that is born of god , overcommeth the world ▪ children do not overcome the world . therefore they are not born of god . res . every thing in the text must be extended no further then to such to whom the apostle wrote . oppo . i say the same thing : this answers not the force of the argument at all . i will prove by another argument that children cannot be born again , &c. if infants be born of water and of the spirit , then are they church members , and sons and daughters of the new covenant : but infants are not church members , nor sons and daughters of the new covenant . therefore they are not born again of water , &c. res . the minor is denyed : infants are church members , and sons of the new covenant . opp. if infants be church members , and sons of the new covenant , then they so know the lord as not to need any teacher : but infants do not so know the lord as not to need a teacher : therefore infants are not church members , nor sons of the new covenant . res . the consequence is denyed . oppo . if all the church members and children of the new covenant do so know the lord , as not to have need to be taught to know the lord : then the consequence is true . but all church members , and the children of the new covenant , do so know the lord , as not to have need to be taught to know the lord : therefore the consequence is true . res . the minor is denyed ; all the church members and children of the new covenant do not so know the lord , as not to need to be taught to know the lord . oppo . the minor is proved , heb. 8 ▪ 8 , 9 ▪ 10 , 11. verses : jer , 31. 33 , 34. verses : this is the covenant that i will make with the house of israel , after those dayes saith the lord . i will put my laws into their mind , and write them in their hearts , and i will be to them a god , and they shall be to me a people : and they shall not teach every man his neighbour , and every man his brother ; saying know the lord : for all shall know me , from the least to the greatest . res . they shall not teach every man his neighbour , and every one his brother ; that is , they shall not be all teachers , james 3. my brethren be not many masters . {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , that is teachers : every one should not be a teacher , to run before he be sent , and intrude into the office without a lawfull call : for no man taketh this office upon him , but he that is called of god , again we know that not only children , but beleevers , men , and women need teaching . oppo . i am ashamed of your interpretation of this text , so far from the truth , ( and i am perswaded ) from your own conscience . would you not have christians to teach , and exhort , and edifie one another ? what manner of spirit is this ? you say all need teaching : so say i also : but there are some things that the children of the new covenant need not be taught , ye need not that any man teach you : 1. john 2. 27. and that is to know the lord , which is rendred a reason of the first words ; they shall all know me , from the least to the greatest . res . this word all , doth not include children infants . oppo . i do not say it doth , but it includes all church members , and children of the new covenant , from the least to the greatest : least and greatest and middle ; and all church members . res . you insist much upon the word all , all . when the word all hath his restriction in many places of scripture , 1. cor. 15. 27. it is manifest that he is excepted , which did put all things under him . oppo . i do not marvil that you so much except against me for insisting upon the word all : and whereas you say the word all hath restriction in scripture : i do not deny it : but to prevent a restriction in this place , there is added ; from the least to the greatest . i leave this to consideration and proceed . if children be born of water , and of the spirit , and be made church members ; then are they disciples : but children are not , nor cannot be disciples : therefore they cannot be born again of water , and of the spirit , &c. res . the minor is denyed ▪ infants may be disciples , and are disciples . oppo . if all disciples must hate father and mother , and life , for christ , and take up their cross , and follow christ : then infants who are not able to do these things , cannot be disciples but all disciples must hate father and mother , and life , for christ ; and must take up their cross , and follow christ . therefore infants cannot be disciples . res . the minor is denyed , it is not required in every disciple to hate father and mother , and life ; or to take up his cross and follow christ : but of such disciples as are of years . oppo . the minor is proved in every part of it , by plain text of scripture ; mat. 16. 24. luke 14. 26 , 27. if any man come unto me ( here is your {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} so often alledged ) and hate not his father , and mother , and wife and children , and brethren and sisters ; yea and his own life also , he cannot be my disciple : and whosoever doth not bear his cross , and come after me ; cannot be my disciple , many texts of the like kind there are . res . if any one and whosoever , doth not include children , but the multitudes that went with him , to whom he spake , vers. 25th . and in the 28th . vers. which of you , intending to build a tower , &c. he speaks of all them that are capable to hear him , and to understand him . oppo . take notice that this is a weapon of your own , that i do oppose you with : and consider how strange a thing you presented it to the people , that i should restrain that place of the third of john , except any one be born again . and you your self are forced to restrain this , where the very same word is used . i demand whether the proposition laid down in the text be true . res . you did restrain it , but you gave no reason of your restraining it : but i have good reason in the context why it should be restrained . do you shew as good reason as i have done already . oppo . i have shewed reasons equal with yours . you say christ spake to the multitudes which followed him : i say christ spake to nicodemus , who come to him , to enquire of the wayes of god for himself . besides , be pleased to remember that the restraint of the word was not my sole answer : but i gave you answer taking it in the largest sence : i gave you three answers ; you give only this . another argument . if it be a sin in parents to require baptisme for , or in the behalf of their infants ; then the baptisme of infants is vnlawfull ; but it is a sin in parents to require baptisme in the behalf of their infants . therefore the baptisme of infants is vnlawfull . res . it is not a sin in parents to require baptisme for their infants . but a thing commendable , and good . opp. if parents have no command nor commission from god to require baptisme for infants ; then it is a sin in them to require it for infants : but parents have neither command nor commission from god to require it for their children : therefore it is a sin in parents to require baptisme for their infants . res . parents have a commission from god , to require baptisme for their infants . oppo . shew us a commission . res . mat. 28. 19. make disciples of all nations , baptising them in the name of the father , and of the son and of the holy ghost . teaching them to observe all things that i have commanded you ; and lo i am with you always , even to the end of the world , oppo . here is no commission to parents ; but only to the apostles . res . the apostles are here commanded to teach them to observe all things which christ commanded them ; they are sent into the world to teach those that are of years : and make them willing and then to baptise them : and as for children , to make them disciples by baptising of them , and to teach the parents to require baptisme for their children , that thereby they may be made disciples , though they be not capable of teaching . oppo . you have often urged me with antiquity : and charged me with novelty , i do now justly charge you with a novel interpretation of the scripture : not above twenty years old at the most , viz. that the meaning of the text alledged should be this , make them disciples by baptising them . res . this is ancient and the fathers did understand this text so . but as for your opinion it was not heard of , little above 500 years ago . then there rose up on henricus that denyed the baptisme of infants ; they that followed him were called henricians , and he and his followers were condemned for heretiques , and excommunicated for their heresie . a have patience i pray you , and bear with me a little . i desire to understand the whole matter of these heretiques , and heresies ; and by whom they were comdemned and excommunicated : for this will give me satisfaction in some things . b i will declare the matter from the beginning of it . about the year 1047. there reigned in germany henry , the third king ; who held two grand heresies ( as the pope and his followers were pleased to stile them ) the one was detected , viz. that church lands , and church-men were subject to his jurisdiction . a this was his detected heresie : what was the other suspected ? b de baptismo parvultorum perperam sonsisse creditur . he was suspected to have an evill opinion of the baptisme of infants , from this henry the third , king ; who was afterward emperour the second of that name , began the henrician heresie . after him succeeded ( not in the empire , but ) in opinion : peter de bruis . his opinions laid to his charge , were , 1. that infants could not be saved by baptisme : 2. that the faith of other men could not stand them in stead , that had no faith of their own . 3. that crosses were to be pluck down , and burned . 4. that the body and bloud of christ was not really or corporally present in the sacrament . 5. that the sacrament was not a sacrifice to be offered to god . 6. that prayers and alms made , and given by the living , did not profit the dead . 7. that christians had no need of consecrated places to worship god in , neither need they to build any . 8. vpon the lords day before easter , he invited much people to a feast , and dressed his meat with a fire made of woodden crosses . after this man in the year 1147. there arose one henricus a monk , ( which is the man spoken of by the answerer ) who was accused of heresieby his adversaries : his heresies ( as they termed them ) were these . first , infants are not to be baptised . 2. the cross of christ is not to be worshipped . 3. the body of christ is not in the sacrament of the eucharist . 4. it is in vain to pray for the dead . 5. god is provoked to wrath , by church musick . this was the henrician heresy in the full : they who did condemn and excommunicate these men , were the pope , his cardinalls , andcouncell ; and bernard , the fairest flower among them . a surely , i beleeve the same persons would have comdemned , this answerer also : forasmuch as he also is guilty of some of their opinions , for which they were condemned . b that is true enough : i therefore wonder why he did instance in these persons . but i will return to the disputation . oppo . i will prove that this interpretation of the place alledged , cannot be true : viz. to make disciples by baptising : first by the grammaticall construction of the place . secondly by the general consent of translators . thirdly , by the ●cripture compared with this place . and fourthly by the practice of the apostles ; who were the persons executing this commission : make disciples of all nations , baptising them : {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} i demand what is the antecedent to the relative {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} if {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} not understood in the word {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} . res . {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} nations is the anticedent . oppo . that cannot be : for then the commission should be this : make the nations disciples , by baptising them : and you have granted , that this commission doth not extend to all in the nations ; but only to such as are willing . secondly {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} is the newter gender , and {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} the masculine ; how do they agree ? res . it is a figure called synthesis , wherein one gender is put for another : which is frequent in the new testament . oppo . i do not remember any place , neither do i beleeve any parallel place can be shewed out of the new testament . res . although i do not carry a concordance in my head , yet i can shew you one place in john 14. 26. {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} and here the relative {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} hath for his antecedent {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} oppo . it is nothing so , for the anticedent is {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} in the beginning of the vers . and the words between {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} and {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} are a parenthesis , and may be omitted without breaking the sence . res . is the parenthesis noted in your book ? opp. no , but your consience tells you it ought to be . res . i will give you another place , ephesi . 1. 13 , 14. {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} here {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} hath , {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} for his antecedent , this is a plain synthesis . oppo . it is so , because of the word {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} understood . what is the earnest of the inheritance ? res . {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} the spirit of god . a here the respondent speaketh not punctually , according to the truth : for here the relative {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} comming between two words of different genders , it may accord with either : so that according to rule , it may be either {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , and in my judgement , this is as little to the purpose as the other : for here is no synthesis in either of these two places . oppo . i will prove that the commission in the 28th . of mat. cannot be a warrant for parents to require baptisme for their children . if the text do require teaching before baptising , then it can be no warrant to baptise children who cannot be taught : but the text requires teaching before baptising . therefore that can be no warrant to baptise children , or require baptisme for them , before they can be taught . res . i deny the minor , the text in the 28th . of mat. go disciple all nations , doth not require teaching before baptising , in all persons : indeed in those that are of years of discretion , and capable of understanding , the apostles were first to teach them , and to make them willing by teaching ; and afterward to baptise them but for infants they were first of all to make them disciples , by baptising of them , and afterward to teach them , when they are capable of understanding . oppo . i have to oppose unto you : the translators and translations of all sorts , in all languages , from the first to the last , ( so far as i know ) translated it teach , without any doubt or scruple . res . do you know what is the ethiopick word ? oppo . no i do not . next compare scripture with scripture : there being no better interpreter : this text being compared with mark 16. 15. go ye into all the world , preach the gospel to every creature . these commissions are the same indifferent words , matthew saith , go disciple , or teach all nations . mark saith , go preach the gospel to every creature . res . i deny them to be the same , neither given at the same time , nor at the same place : for the one was given in galilae , in a mountain where jesus had papointed them : the other was given to them when jesus appeared to them as they sate at meat . oppo . time and place doth not alter the commission , or prove them to be two : how doth it appear by your words that these words were spoken at several times , and in two places ? was it possible they might sit at meat in the mountain of galilae ? the next thing i have to urge you with , is the practice of the apostles , who best knew the meaning of the commission . they in the execution of this commission , did preach the gospel , and when the people beleeved , they baptised them , both men and women ; but not a word of children ( acts 9. 12. ) in the city of samaria : were there no children there ? res . philip baptised both men and women , under which children are comprehended ; which is usual in scripture : for josua 8. 25. it is said that josua destroyed all the inhabitants of ai . and so it was that all that fell that day both of men and women , were twelve thousand : even all the men of ai . here children are comprehended under men and women ; for they also were destroyed : for he utterly destroyed all the inhabitants of ai : and children were part , it may be , a great part of the inhabitants of ai . oppo . this is not much to the purpose : the text doth not say that there were no more inhabitants but twelve thousand ; but the men and women were twelve thousand , and that they were all , the men of ai . it is possible , notwithstanding that text , that the inhabitants of ai might be twenty thousand , the children being accounted . i leave your answer to consideration , and proceed to another argument . if baptisme of infants be lawfull , then it is of god : but it is not of god : therefore it is not lawfull . res . baptisme of infants is of god , and an ordinance of god : oppo . whatsoever is of god is to some good use or purpose . but baptisme of infants is to no good use or purpose . therefore baptisme of infants is not of god . res . baptisme of infants is to very good purpose ; namely to wash away their original sin , that so they may be made the children of god ; without which they cannot be saved : except any one be born of water , and of the spirit , he cannot enter into the kingdome of god . opp. i will prove that baptisme cannot wash away the sin of infants . if all the sin that infants are or can be guilty of , be taken away before baptisme ; then baptisme cannot wash it away : but all the sin that infants are , or can be guilty of , is washed away before baptisme : therefore baptisme cannot wash away sin of infants . res . the sin of infants is not washed away before baptisme . oppo . if infants have no other sin but the sin of the world : whereof they are guilty , then all their sin is taken or washed away before baptisme . but infants have no other sin but the sin of the world , therefore all their sin is washed away before baptisme . res . i deny the consequence . oppo . if the sin of the world be taken away before baptisme ; then the consequence is true . but the sin of the world is taken away before baptisme : therefore the consequence is true . res . i deny the minor , the sin of the world is not taken away before baptisme : i know your scriptures . oppo . if christ took the sin of the world away by his death , when he died ; then it is taken away before baptisme . but christ jesus took away the sin of the world by his death : therefore it was taken away before baptisme . res . christ did not actually take away the sin of the world by his death . oppo . john 1. 29. behold the lamb of god that taketh away the sin of the world . 1. pet. 2. 24. who himself bare our sins , in his own body , on the tree . heb. 9. 28. christ was once offered , to bear the sins of many : with a multitude of places . deut. 9. 24. to finish sin , and make an end of transgression , &c. res . christ did not actually take away the sin of the world , but only potentially , in procuring a possibility of pardon upon conditions performed : namely of faith , repentance , and baptisme , in those that are of years of discretion ; and of baptisme in infants : and as they who are of years of discretion cannot have sin taken away without repentance faith and baptisme , no more can infants without baptisme . opp. i will prove that christ did actually take away the sin of the world , by his death : that which was not imputed , was actually taken away : but the sin of the world was not imputed : therefore it was actually taken away . res . the sin of the world was imputed before baptisme . oppo . 2. cor. 5. 19. god was in christ reconciling the world to himself ; not imputing their trespasses unto them . coll. 1. 20. and having made peace through the bloud of his cross , by him to reconcile all things to himself . heb. 10. 14. by one offering , he hath perfected for ever , them that are sanctified esa. 53. the lord laid on him the iniquity of us all . a multitude of witnesses might be produced . res . this is none other but what was said before : he did not impute them virtually , ( not but that he did impute them actually ) until the performance of the conditions afore named . oppo . i will leave these places to consideration , and prove that the sin of infants was taken away wholly before baptisme , by another argument : if the law whereby they were held guilty , was wholy taken away , then the sin was wholy taken away . but the law whereby they were held guilty was actually and wholely taken away . res . the law whereby they were held guilty was not actually taken away . oppo . if the covenant that god made with man before his fall , be wholely and actually taken away , then the law whereby they were held guilty , is taken away : but the covenant that god made with man before the fall , is actually taken away : therefore the law whereby they were held guilty , was taken away . res . the major is denyed , the law or covenant made before the fall of man , is not actually and wholely taken away . oppo . if that christ have established a new covenant , then the old one is taken away : but christ hath established a new covenant . therefore the old and former covenant is taken away . res . i deny the consequence ; both remain . oppo . if two covenants cannot stand together , then the consequence is true ; but two covenants cannot stand together , but the second makes voyde the first : therefore the consequence is true . res . two covenants may stand together . oppo . heb. 8. 13. heb. 10. 9. he taketh away the first , that he might establish the second . heb. 9. 15. res . the author speaks not of the covenant made with adam : but of that which god made with the children of israel . oppo . i urge the reason of the apostle , which if it hold good in that it will also hold good in this : if the covenant made with israel must be disanulled ; then also must the covenant made with adam , before his fall , be much more disanulled ; in asmuch as it hath as great an oposition . i shall easily prove that covenant to be taken away : if no man in the world neither is nor shall be judged by that covenant , then it is wholely taken away : but no man either is or shall be judged by that covenant : therefore it is taken away . res . persons shall be judged by that covenant made with adam . oppo . if infants shall be judged by that covenant made with adam , then infants dying unbaptised shall be shut out of heaven : but infants dying unbaptised shall not be shut out of heaven . therefore infants shall not be judged by that covenant . res . infants unbaptised , ( where there is no desire of their baptisme in their parents or friends ) shall be shut out of heaven . oppo . if unbaptised infants be shut out of heaven , then god punisheth some creatures for that which they cannot help ; but god punisheth no creatures for that which they cannot help : therefore unbaptised infants are not shut out of heaven . res . i deny the consequence . oppo . then shutting out of heaven is no punishment . b here the auditors ( some of them ) brake order , some crying out bear witness : he sayth , it is no punishment to be shut out of heaven : because of the denyall of this consequence : some also affirm he plainly said so , in so many sillables , which they can witness . res . the minor also may be questioned , for god may do what he will with his own , having all power in his hand , as the potter hath power over his clay , to use it at his pleasure . oppo . i do not say what god might or may do , but what he doth . now we know that god cannot do contrary to his oath : but to punish creatures , for that they cannot help , is contrary to his oath ; therefore god cannot do it . moreover thus i argue ; if god punish creatures for that they cannot help : then he doth not leave all the world without excuse . but he will leave all the world without excuse ; therefore he will not punish any creature for that which they cannot help . b this the opponent repeated three or four times over , and received no answer at all : no notice was taken of it : the respondent complaining of the injury done unto him by the disorder of the auditors ; which the opponent confessed , and said it was his sorrow , and altogether without his approbation . and then he spake as followeth , and departed . oppo . although i have many things to propound , yet considering the time allotted and agreed upon is spent : and my own infirmities begin to press me . i shall at this time cease . a i pray declare to me what success this disputation had . b surely , according to the different affections ( rather then judgements ) of some men and women : although christ himself preached church gospel of the kingdome , yet some beleeved , and some beleeved not ; some spake evill , and some well : some cryed victory on the one side , and some on the other . a the censure of the vulgar , that know nothing , is not worthy of the least account in the world ; their approbation is very near to disgrace : and the censure of the learned , who want conscience , is as little to be esteemed : it was wisely spoken by one of old , to a lewd person , who commended him highly : i am afraid ( said he ) i have done something amiss : because thou speakest well of me . but i desire to hear how it was resented by those that were truly both judicious , and consciencious : especially what resolution the gentlewoman●ound , for whose satisfaction the dispute ( as you said at first ) was appointed . b i am not able to render a particular account of every one ; but as touching the gentlewoman , the event was thus . the dispute was ended the 26th . day of november , and shee ( as i have heard ) was baptised the first day of december . a her practice declares her satisfaction : but i remember that day was very cold , and sharp ; it seemes strange that a gentlewoman should endure it at that season of the year , and in such weather to go into the water , and to be dipt all over . b you know that fantasticall ladies have a proverb : that pride feels no cold ; and their naked necks and breasts , and arms , even in the coldest weather , declare the truth of it : know that faith is stronger in christian women , who serve the lord jesus , then pride is in vain ones , who serve the prince of darkness . take therefore this for a maxime : that faith , and zeal , feel no cold : peter will adventure to walk upon the water , if jesus say come . and tender women will not be afraid to go under water , when jesus bids go : very hardly will that person follow christ , into the fire , who scruples to follow him into the water . but is it not very prejudiciall to the health of such persons who have not been accustomed to wet their feet in water ? i remember mr. baxter writes , that it is very dangerous ; and many thereby are likely to perish , if they should not miraculously be preserved . b i acknowledge mr. baxter to be a learned man in many things ; but herein he betrayes his science : and i am afraid , his conscience likewise : as touching science , it is easy to prove that dipping of beleevers , is not so dangerous , as dipping of infants : yet dipping of infants was not only commanded by the church of england , but also generally practised in the church of england , till the year 1600. yea in some places it was practised untill the year 1641. untill the fashion altered . again , i can make it manifest that dipping either infants or beleevers , is not so dangerous as sprinkling of infants : and yet they sprinkle them at all times , night and day , and winter and summer . and had m. baxter known this to be true , he would have told where and when any beleever was killed , and by whom ; that so he might have brought an odium upon the practise : but he gives us not one instance that i know . but on the contrary , i shall tell you my observation of many hundreds , that i have known baptised ; of both sexes , of all sorts : old , young , feeble persons , women great with child : i never knew any that had the least harm , or suffered any damage in respect of health . i have heard many confess they received much benefit in respect of their bodies ; but i never heard any complain , neither did i ever know any ( i speak it to the praise of the providence of god ) that died within one year after they were baptised : excepting one mayd in essex , who died within a few weeks ; and mr. baxters brethren instigated , and spurred the magistrate , untill the person baptising her , was sent to prison for murther , laid in irons , arrainged at the bar , at the assizes holden at chelmford . and although witnesses came in ( the one whereof was her mother ) and testified that shee was in better health , then shee had been , for some years before , for divers dayes ; and that shee walked comfortably abroad ; yet the jury was informed that he was guilty of wilfull murder . and had not his appeal stood him in stead , he had been in danger of his life . but when he had appealed , neither priest , nor people durst prosecute him any more . if therefore mr. baxter and his brethren could prove what they affirm to be true ; how great the cry would be , you may proportionably judge , by this one story : the whole matter whereof , with all the circumstances , are worthy to be committed to the press : ad perpetuam rei memoriam : that after ages may take notice what manner of persons we live in the midst of ; who preach , write , and print ; that the anabaptists are bloudy . i have a little more to speak to mr. baxter : that if there were such danger in the dipping of beleevers as he pretends : it must needs be that the administrator must be in greater perill then the receiver : forasmuch as the baptised goeth into the water but once , the baptist often : where many times he stayes the time untill divers persons are baptised , if the danger be so great , it need not to be feared that the sect should greatly increase : by reason that the teachers , will soon destroy themselves . but i can shew mr. baxter an old man in london , who hath laboured in the lords poole many years ; converted by his ministry ( as an instrument in the hand of the lord ) more men and women then mr. baxter hath in his parish ; yea , when he hath laboured a great part of the day in preaching , and reasoning , his refection hath been ( not a sack-possit or a cawdle ) but to go into the water , and baptise converts : and he liveth , when younger and wary persons have gone to the grave before him . i wonder that mr. baxter should forget what he hath read in authours , which he deems authentike : who write , that ethelbert king of kent , with ten thousand men and women , were baptised in canterbury ; upon the 25th . day of december , in the year 597. a the providence of god appears to be very great in this case : as if the lord did puropsely intend to stop the mouths of clamorous adversaries : yet i beleeve he will not acknowledge it to be any miracle , for he will not willingly grant , that god works miracles among the anabaptists . but did not the opponent declare that he had more arguments ; which he intended to have urged ? i would willingly hear them . b you shall hear them : that doctrine which leaveth power in the hands of men to kill soules , without their own consent , cannot be of god : but the doctrine , of infants baptisme ( as the respondent layes it down ) leaveth power in the hands of men to kill soules without their consent : therefore the doctrine of infant baptisme , laid down by the respondent , is not of god . a i think the major cannot be denyed , in regard the scripture saith , men are not able to kill the soule math. 10. 28. the minor therefore remains to be proved . b if men have power by his doctrine to deprive soules of salvation ; then they have power to kill soules . but by this doctrine , men have power to deprive soules of salvation : therefore ( by this doctrine ) men have power to kill soules : the minor is proved , by the grounds which are laid down , viz. baptisme is so absolutely necessary to salvation , that no child can be saved without it . now we see many parents can and do withhold baptisme from their children , and thereby ( according to his doctrine ) they kill the soules of their children : for he that depriveth us of the meanes , doth deprive us of the end . a i will not undertake the answer of this argument : because i know not what to say to it ; i leave it for them that can : i pray you proceed to another argument . b that doctrine which maketh the commands of christ to be more obscure , then the commands delivered by moses ; is not of god : but the doctrine of infant baptisme maketh the commands of christ more obscure then the commands delivered by moses . therefore the doctrine of infant baptisme is not of god . that christ speaks more plain then moses , these scriptures testifie , john 1. 16 , 17. heb. 2. 3. chapters , 2. cor. 3. from the 6th to the 15 verse . now it evidently appears that moses delivered ordinances plainly and evidently , even in the smallest things : he was very punctuall according to all the form shewed in the mount . if then the baptisme of infants be a thing of so great weight , so absolutely necessary to salvation of them ; how can it be imagined that it should have been wholly left out of the scripture , and not a word of it to be found : as the defenders themselves confess ? but only by consequence ; and this age is ashamed of the consequences , that pleased former ages : and bring new and unheard of sequels , to confirm what they cannot find in plain terms delivered . a third argument is this : that doctrine and practise which begets questions that cannot be answered ; and is upheld by practises which are ridiculous , is not of god : but such is the doctrine and practise of infant baptisme : therefore it is not of god . the questions and doubts are these chiefly . 1. how long time may a child be kept vnbaptised without sin ? 2. whether the children of vnbeleevers may be baptised ? 3. whether the faith of the grandfather may give a child right to baptisme . 4. how far may we go back in a right or collaterall line to derive the right of children to baptisme . 5. whether sureties can perform faith and repentance for the child . 6. whether that child be truly baptised ; whose sureties were unbeleevers . the practises that are ridiculous are these . 1. the priest demandeth of the child whether it do beleeve in god ? whether it do forsake the divell ? &c. whether he or shee desire to be baptised ? the godfather answers , yea : for this child : when the child hath not any desire . this is so ridiculous , that our new reformers are quite ashamed of it , and have sent the antique fashion out of dores : and cashired the godfathers and godmothers . there were of old ( even of the same antiquity with infants baptisme : ) men that did not spare to baptise dead men : so great a superstition did possess the minds of some in the second and third centuries : the mode was thus ; the dead man lieth upon the bed : a living man creeps under the bed : the priest demands of the dead man , whether he repents ? whether he desire to be baptised ? the living man answers from under the bed , for the dead man ; yea , i do repent , i do beleeve ; i desire to be baptised ; after which they proceeded to baptise the dead man : and scripture they alledged for the collouring of this absurdity , 1. cor. 15. 29. why are they then baptised for the dead : and peradventure they might say , it was as plain as any could be brought for the baptisme of infants . this was about the year 180. so soon had men perverted the commands of christ , and were become strangers to his wayes . i will leave all these things to your judgement , to try by the touchstone what price is to be set upon them . the lord give the reader and hearers understanding hearts . finis . errata . page 7. line ult. reade {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} . likewise p. 8. l2 . p. 10 , l. 4. supply i. p. 18. l. 5. now instead of for , p. 24. l. 25. faith without ground , is to begin the opponents speech , p. 30. l. 5. r. parvulorum . p. 31. l. 23. r. {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} . p. 32. l. 18. for responent r. opponent l. 19. for {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} r. {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} p. 33. l. 1 ▪ r ▪ by p. 33. l. 26. r. was it not possible p. 35. l. 17 r. dan. 9. p. 38. l. 28. for church r. the vindiciæ pædo-baptismi, or, a confirmation of an argument lately emitted for infants baptism in a letter to a reverend divine of the church of england / by r.b. ... burthogge, richard, 1638?-ca. 1700. 1685 approx. 101 kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from 44 1-bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : 2005-10 (eebo-tcp phase 1). a30637 wing b6157a estc r40304 18831844 ocm 18831844 108397 this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons 0 1.0 universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase 1, no. a30637) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set 108397) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, 1641-1700 ; 1663:29) vindiciæ pædo-baptismi, or, a confirmation of an argument lately emitted for infants baptism in a letter to a reverend divine of the church of england / by r.b. ... burthogge, richard, 1638?-ca. 1700. [2], 84 p. printed for thomas simmons ..., london : 1685. "books printed for, and sold by tho. simmons at the prince's arms in ludgate-street": p. 80-84. reproduction of original in the union theological seminary library, new york. created by converting tcp files to tei p5 using tcp2tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between 1473 and 1700 available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the 25,363 texts created during phase 1 of the project have been released into the public domain as of 1 january 2015. anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. 5% (or 5 pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of 100 instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level 4 of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p5, characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng infant baptism. god -goodness. 2003-04 tcp assigned for keying and markup 2003-05 spi global keyed and coded from proquest page images 2005-03 jonathan blaney sampled and proofread 2005-03 jonathan blaney text and markup reviewed and edited 2005-04 pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion vindiciae poedo-baptismi : or , a confirmation of an argument lately emitted for infants baptism : in a letter to a reverend divine of the church of england . by r.b. m.d. london : printed for thomas simmons , at the prince's arms in ludgate street . 1685. sir , i was at the point of making a resolution before i receiv'd yours ( of june 9. ) wholly to neglect that libellous disputation ( as it is called ) between a doctor and an apothecary ; as a thing that doth not only betray the unsincerity , the artifices , the impotent passions of him that wrote it ; but that to a prudent and judicious reader , doth ( as is said of the viper ) carry in its own bowels , causes that in time will destroy it . but seeing you advise me that it may not be unfit that something be said to it ; and i know we ought not to have too good an opinion of the world , which generally , being malicious , and invidious , is apter to take impression from a witty calumny and detraction , than from the soundest and most solid reasoning and argument , on these and the like considerations , i now resolve to reply . but in doing so , that i resemble not my adversary , whom not only i , but many sober and indifferent persons do condemn for impertinence , for falsehood , for bitterness , for peremptoriness and presumption , and for such other courses as ( to use the expression of a noble person ) tend rather to rumor and impression in the vulgar sort , than to the likelihood of any good effect . for this reason , i am determined in replying to him , to propose unto my self for my example , that wise and religious bishop of whom when he returned answer to a pamphlet much ( it seems ) of a nature like to this before me . my lord bacon says , that he remembred that a fool must be answered , but not by becoming like unto him , and considered the matter which he handled , and not the person with whom he dealt . the points therefore that i will go upon , shall be only these : first , to shew nakedly and truly the occasion of my engaging with my adversary in this controversy . secondly , to shew the unfairness of his proceeding in the publick management of it , together with the motives , which ( as i suppose ) induced him to the unfairness . thirdly , to note but as it were in passing , and by the by , the undue aspersions which he casts upon me , in reference to my argument ; together with the malice is in them . fourthly , briefly again to state the argument i made , and to demonstrate , that as it is not a log ( as he calls it ) nor vncouth , so that he is still extreamly affrighted at it . ( for he dares not touch it ; ) and still hath cause to be so . as for my engaging with him ; the first occasion ( as i have said already ) was purely accidental , and it was drawn on i scarce know how ; he says , by the importunity of the lady , my readiness to comply with it , and his unwariness ; and let it be so . but a casual , passing , undesigned discourse it was ; a discourse that as it did begin , so i thought it would have ended in the same place ; for my part , i scarce had one thought of it afterwards . but as for any insulting upon him , of which he now complains , and never before that i know of ; and with which he thinks to bespeak the affections of his readers ( for indeed he needs them ) and to excuse his own acerbity ; he cannot produce one witness of any ; i am sure , by me : i can many , even of persons that were present at the whole discourse , to attest the contrary . but that he was insulted upon , and that ( in his own terms ) his sword was as it were broken over his head , and with triumph , you must believe it ; and yet all the while , the weapons on both sides , ( they ) were but words ; and you can hardly think , he lost his , then ; who , still , speaks swords and daggers . but you will tell me ; well : all this , hitherto , was but a transient accidental discourse , such as might happen every day , when persons meet who are of different perswasions , and there is an end. but how came it afterwards to be so solemn , and so deliberate , as from words that are but birds in the air , to become writings , which are as bears at the stake ? truly as to this , one would think , by what my adversary writes , and by the fashion in which he writes , in his epistle , and in pag. 16. 17. that nothing but resentment on his part , of the insolence and affront that then was offered him , and a motion of vanity on mine , to answer his challenge , drew on this second engagement ; little else can be inferred from what he hath written concerning it . but indeed , on my part it was nothing less than so , and nothing less on his neither , pretendedly ; for all was conscience , nothing but conscience and enquiry after further light , with which in a letter that he sent me above a year and half ( he calls it in his usual figure , sometime ) after , he importuned my answer , and prevailed . for who is there , but would have believed ( as then i did ) that it was conscience , pure conscience that acted him ; if he had received from him ( as i had ) a letter so concernedly penn'd , and with so much movement : with so much importunity , and so much seeming sincerity ; and if he knew him not any better than i did at that time ; for thus his letter , bearing date sept. 9. 1681. doth speak in so many words . upon this occasion honoured sir , ( and that occasion was a motion he made me , about perfecting the printing and publishing of a book of dr. worsley's ) i shall also take the boldness to remind you of a conference you were pleased sometime since to entertain with my self upon the subject of infants baptism , when you were pleased to insist upon the covenant made with abraham , wherein god promised to be a god to him and to his seed after him ; from whence you argued , that in as much as by vertue of that covenant both abraham and his seed after him were to receive the sign of circumcision ; and in as much as the apostle doth expresly tell us , that the blessing of abraham was to come upon the gentiles , through jesus christ ; it thence followed , that the believing gentiles and their posterity also , as being the spiritual seed of abraham , had a right to baptism , which is the seal of the same covenant under the new testament administration . having since that time therefore revolv'd this argument of yours in my thoughts over and over , i could not satisfie my conscience till i could either come to some satisfactory clearness in my own mind concerning the cogency thereof , or otherwise till i had drawn up something or other in writing , that might at least be a sufficient justification unto my self in the way of my present practice . and after many fervent addresses and petitions to heaven , that as i might not mistake my way , so that i might not oppose or neglect any part of the heavenly truth ; i have at length drawn up the inclosed paper , which i do therefore now humbly offer to your serious consideration , with this earnest desire , that if after all that i have now said , you shall yet judge me to be under a mistake in the present point in reference to my opinion about the spirituall seed of abraham , that you will please at least to suggest to me what you think may be substantially objected by way of opposition thereunto . i hope dear sir , that it is the investigation of truth that both you and my self also do aim at , which should be dearer to us than all the world besides ; and therefore if notwithstanding what i have now offered , you shall still apprehend that i have mist it in my present search and reasonings concerning it , i beseech you to endeavour my correction and better information therein . i have indeed drawn up the enclosed paper by way of postscript to a large discourse in reference to infant baptism , which i had before compiled , wherein i do consider and give answer to all the most material arguments which are usually insisted on for the justification of the practice of infant baptism . and therefore also in the present paper you will perceive that i do touch upon some other arguments than what you were pleased to insist upon in the formention'd conference , that i had with you upon this subject . i know dear sir , that you 'll not be offended with me for making thus bold with you , and that you will not reject what may be substantialy offered for the discovery of truth , though by never so mean a hand . now that god would be pleased at length to send forth his light and his truth , that all that love and fear him may serve and worship him with one heart and with one shoulder , according to the primitve pattern , is the earnest desire of your most affectionate and humble servant p c. now sir , is there in this whole letter the least insinuation of any resentment in him ? the least of any insulting over him ? or abuse put upon him ? in that which here himself calls but a conference ; the softest word in the world ? if he had any resentment at that time , how often hath the sun gone down on his wrath ! how deeplv was it dissembled ! how subtilly masked over with the fair pretences of conscience ! of enquiry after further light ! and of longing for satisfaction ! and all , how faced with seeking of god! — this letter was that which drew me on in this business ; which being a business of conscience , as i then believed it , ( and who in my circumstances but would ? ) i pursued it in my first reply , with all the fairness and candor imaginable : but was answer'd with so much presumption , asperity , and arrogance , that i must have been as void of sence , as he of civillity , and sincerity , not to have seen at last ( though somewhat of the latest ) that it was not conscience , and a willingness of receiving , or of giving further light , as was pretended ; but rooted malice , and a lust of revenge that inspir'd him . conscience was but the bait , the hook was uuder ; let him print his first , second , and third answers , as he sent them to me , and then let the world judge , if it went any less . and this reminds me of the second head on which i am to discourse to you , and that is , of the unfairness of his proceeding in the publick management of this business ; and of the motives , that ( as i suppose ) induced him to this unfairness . his unfairness is , that when it was but letters only that had been written by him to me on this occasion , and letters only that are referred to by me in those i published : as also , seeing i wrote not any but on this urgent importunity ; and when i printed what i wrote , i was so candid , so just , and so exact , that in the publication which i made , as i omitted nothing so i added nothing but what i put a mark upon , that all the world might note it . i say the unfairness is , that , for all this , this seeker of truth and one who as himself tells us , dayly prayeth for the desireable vnity of the spirit in the bond of peace , that he instead of publishing the letters which indeed he sent , and as he sent them , should print a base and fictious disputation that never was in reallity , as the sum of all the letters that went between us . where as indeed , he but presents the world with pieces , and patches , both of his own letters , and of mine ; and withal , in those patches ( he ) so industriously disguises , alters , and abuses the argument i manage , that t is as impossibly to see it in his libel in its true proportions and figure , as to believe , that base and barbarous methods ( such as these he uses ) are proper means , either of attaining unto the bond of peace , or , unto the vnity of the spirt . thus four letters , which are the main ones , are suppressed ; the first of which i even now repeated . this is his unfairness . the true motives , why he did not publish his three first responsory letters , his second , third , and fourth , as well as his fifth , and sixth , ( for why he supppessed the first of all that was sent , is evident enough , from what hath been declar'd already , ) may probably be presum'd to be these ( following . ) first , he did it , to hide from the observation of his readers , the just causes i had of making those complaints i did in my letters , of his unfairness , rudeness , and vanity ? of his bold assertions , without proofs , his cunning evasions , instead of direct answers ; his always partial , and often false pretended repetitions ; and his triumphs before the victory &c. which undue proceeding , used without any provocation or any examaple by me , and that too , by a man that breathed nothing but conscience , but desire of satisfaction , and seeking of light in the business , and all this after seeking of god ; should it be apparent in his letters , as undoubtedly it is , and i believe he is conscious it is ; as it would have had an aspect not very pleasing unto most others , so possibly it might awaken in some of his own party that mean well , and are truly conscientious , very strange apprehensions , not only of his humor , carriage , and conduct , but even of the main of his cause . this likely he foresaw . secondly , he chose to act his part by way of a dialogue , rather than of letters , to hide from the eyes of his own party , the strength and cogency of my argument ; which being harmonical , the force and power of it lyes in the joynts of it , and in the reference of its parts ; so that , either by the dividing and mangling of the parts , or by the hudling and confounding of them together , ( both which , at times , he hath done , in his dispute , ) the force thereof is unseen , and is lost . and indeed , as he hath managed the business , he might well hope to perswade his own party , whose hands likely would be as full of his books , as empty of mine , that i had said nothing in my argument but what he there repeats of it ; which is as true , as that the whole chapter of the first of genesis is in the contents of it ; he never giving but an imperfect summary ( and that too , many times , with a mixture of falshood ) in the report he makes of what i did propose to be prov'd ; but he mentions not the very proofs themselves , of what i proposed . this will appear most manifestly , by but comparing his pretended disputation , with my printed letters . had he only printed his letters , some of his own party probably , those of them that are just and prudent , would have had recourse also to mine . but now , his disputation speaking all on both sides , they may think , there is no need of that . thirdly , it was done to hide the advantage i had over him in the course of the argument ; how i gained ground , by what steps , and with what mediums ; as also , to conceal that tergiversation shifting and shuffling ; that declining the force of my argument ; and that insisting on little things that are by the by ; with other such like artificies , of which i accused him . all this is hinted in my letters , and he was not ignorant , it would be plain by his own : let him shew the contrary else , by publishing them . half an eye may easily discern , that the controversy was almost at an end , before his fifth letter was written ; which yet , is the first he publishes . and surely , what ever he says , more was in it then a bare respect and kindness to his reader , to whom ( as he tells us p. 66. ) he would not be burthensome ; ay , there was also some little mixture of kindness and respect unto himself , he knew the burthening of his reader ( for burthened certainly he would be , if judicious and considerate , with verbosity without sence ; with common placing without discretion ; with skirmishing about but words ; and with other such unseemly and impertinent artificies . ) he knew , such burthening of his reader in the consequence would be a renewing of that vexation and anguish which he had found so grievous , and which he bemoans so much both in his epistle , and in his book . p. 17. and here , seeing i dispair , with all the provocation i can give , to succeed in my design of induciug him to print entirely , and bonâ cum fide , the suppressed letters which he sent me , i will therefore take occasion , from his published animadversions , to make his other readers sensible ( for you are so already ) both of the credibility of the former motives , and of the truth of the charge imployed in them ; by observing ( to them ) out of many instances that do occur , but one or two for a taste . the first shall be of his candour and sincerity , the second , of his way and method in arguing . the first , which is of his candour and sincerity , shall be in the repetition which he makes of the first paragraph of my first letter , in which he purposedly , but ungratefully omits that part of the period that relates to the movement and importunity with which he solicited , and even compelled me into this business . for instead of adding ( and so importunate and iterated requests to give you the result of my most cool and serious considerations of what you have done in it . ) he knowing that a passage of that significancy , would make it plain he was the first aggressor , at least as to writing , and that i came not in but on his great solicitation ; and consequently , as it would detect his great ingratitude , so it would interfere with what he often insinuates , about the rise of the controversy . therefore , he craftily omits it , and only drawes a line ; which only notes , that something is wanting , but no body could divine , it was this ; the sense going on so smooth without it . the former , is one instance of his ingenuity and of his sincerity , but we have another which do's much resemble it , ( viz. ) that of publishing to the world his reflections on those little points ( for 〈◊〉 you may see them to be so ) in the first edition of my letter , which my self had altered and amended in the second ; for though he knew i had corrected and altered them ; yet he slily insinuates in the margen of his dispute , ( p. 28 & 32 ) as if he had not known it , and that the alterations are only in the print : whereas , i printed nothing in my letters but what i first sent him , except that in my last , of which i advertised the reader , and which i marked with an asterisme . this is so great an imposture on his readers , and so great an abuse , that ( p. 65. ) even himself doth offer something that might pass for an extenuation , if this meanness of his proceeding should ever chance to be noted . but this is one of his arts still ; he kn●w that many would observe the wound he gives in the margen , that would not much regard the balm he afterward applys , for the healing it ; and the less , because it is not applyed directly . so much for his ingenuity and candour . as for his method of arguing ; besides a gift he has of telling and applying of tales , and of capping of verses ; he uses to pervert the words of his adversary , and in things of little moment , to raise a dust , and make great a doe ; either to blind the eyes of those that shall consider him , or to divert them , from what is the main in the business ; for with this , especially if it be difficult , he is but seldom used to meddle , at all ; or if at all , not closely . to manifest this , i but desire his readers , that after the perusall of the title page of my book and of my advertisement , they would observe his reflections upon them ; both as to the matter of them ; as to the manner of them ; and as to the design of them . how that for the matter of them , they are made upon words only ; and for the manner of them , upon words distorted from the proper and genuine sence of their author ; and for the design of them , that they are made to expose , and abuse , and inodiate , and therefore some of them are often , and most maliciously inculcated ; and all this , without the least consideration of what is materiall , and substantial , and in confirmation of the argument . for , as he is witty enough in little matters , to pervert the sence of his adversary , to raise a calumny on him , and to make things soberly said to pass for ridiculous ; so he is as wise in greater matters , to avoid any touch of them ; and that for fear of his head , which , he well remembers ( page 17 ) once already was in danger , by having a sword as it were broken over it . this i say , is a truth , and very manifest . for in my advertisement , all that is done by way of argument ( and that 's no inconsiderable part of it , the whole consisting of but nine l●aves , and six of them are spent that way , under four considerations ) all this he wholly skips over : and , as if it was not , at all , his business , or in his design , at all , to reason and argue , but only to calumniate , expose , and abuse ; he that hath so many words for bad , or for impertinent purposes , hath not one word for that purpose , which only became him . one would think a man so much in pretentions of conscience , and of nothing but conscience in the case , who did only seek to give , or to receive satisfaction , should have judged it proper to have considered what was argumentative ; and that , whatever else he did , he should be sure not to have left undone the thing that most imported those ends . but of this not one word , but while he is dealing in his mint , annis , and cummin , ( and yet he is not for tything ) he leaves those greater matters undone . i beleive by this , that you will easily infer as i do , that really it was not conscience , as he at first pretended , in his letter to me ; but it was rouzed courage as he tells his reader , in the epistle to him , that made him so concerned , and so forward in this controversy . and he accordingly manages it , not as a serious matter , a matter of conscience , for light and information ; but as a business of quarrel , and of vanity ; only to recover ( if he can ) his lost credit , and that field , which ( as himself confesseth p. 17. ) once he fairly left me , and now he would unfairly regain . you see his unfairness in the publick management of the business between us which is the second head i propounded ; i now advance to the third , which is to note ( but briefly ) the unjust aspersions which he makes of contradiction and incoherence , and of ostentation and vanity , as he scents them in my discourse ; and those he runs upon , under two heads : the first , with respect to the harmony ; the second , to the novelty of it . as to the harmony , he says ; first that i affirm in my advertisement that in this controversy , there is no need of of exactness of critiscisme ; and yet , that i say , namely in one of my letters , that gen. 17. 9. 10. must be understood crittically : and that the apostle was as critical upon it as i , or any other can be . secondly , that i say in my advertisement , that i was concern'd to see the article of infants baptism to hang on wyres , and by geometry , and that i could not see it owner of sure and solid foundations , unless it be as in my letters i lay it ; and yet in my letters i applaud mr. baxter's argument for it . thirdly , that in one of my letters , i call the opinion of antipedo baptism a novelty ; and yet had said in another , that it is probable that those who would not suffer little children to come to christ to be bless●d , were of the perswasion of this anabaptist . these are his mountains births as to the harmony of my argument . really sir , i know not how , without blushing , and begging of your pardon , for giving you the trouble of so great imp●rtinencys , to enter into discourse of things so vain , so frivilous ; but since it must be done , i will endeavour to do it as little to your disturbance , that is , with as much sobriety and tenderness , and with as little amplification , as is possible : i will but touch on these matters , and note them , without insisting and staying upon them . to his first imputation then i say , that as one may understand a text made out and unfolded by a crittick , who himself is no crittick ; so , that i spake of exactness of crittiscism ; and of that too , as a part of humane learning ; as is evident by the coherence , where i spake of it . ay , and when in my advertisement i affirmed , that there was no need of exactness of critiscism , as to this business ; i then did and with a direct prospect unto what i had affirmed in my letter , both concerning gen. 17. 9. 10. and the apostle paul's being crittical upon it ; i say , i did add by way of limitation ( for the main ) that for the main of the controversy , there was no need of it . and indeed the controversy for the main of it , doth not depend on any crittiscism ; much less upon exactness of crittiscism , and least of all upon exactness of crittiscism as it is a part of humane learning ; one need not to be a great scholar , a great philosopher , or a great crittick ( as he must be , to be an exact one ) to understand that text , or the apostles crittiscism upon it ; which to , is not a humane crittiscism , but a divine . to the second , i grant i did say i was concerned , ( and so i was ) to see the article of infants baptism hang on wyres , and by geometry ; on which i did , and do believe it to be hung by all that do not find it ( as indeed it is , and as i find it is , and as many others before have found it ) inlay'd in the constitution of an instituted church , and in the harmony of the scriptures . those that lay it otherwise , do not lay it on its true foundations . but i never said as this wyre drawing man , whose only business is to put me under odium , and envy with all partys , would make me say ; that all before me hung it but on wyres ; for those did not , even according to that saying of mine , who founded it on abrahams covenat , and in the constitution of an instituted church ; as many did before me ; and as even mr. baxter must ; seeing the membership of children , which is the principal argument he goes upon cannot be understood but with relation to the constitution of a church ; and it is inlay'd in the covenant . and where now i pray you , sir , is that vanity or that contradiction which this lincey'd man that looks through stone walls hath espyed , or rather invented ? i say invented ; for when he affirms ( p. 3. ) that i said i could not see it ( meaning infants baptism ) to be owner of sure and solid foundations , vnless it be as i here lay it ; ) he imposes grosly ; i said no such words ; i only said , ( unless it were inlaid ( as i find it is ) in the very constitution of an instituted church , and in the harmony of the scriptures . ) and many to be sure , if not most now a dayes do take it to be so inlaid ; all do , that ground it on the covenant of abraham , though they do not all find it to be so in one way , and in the same method . as to his third exception ; give me leave to tell you , that in the last paragraph of my first letter , speaking of some that in our saviours time , did forbid little children to come unto him to be blessed , i said in a parenthesis , and as it were smilinglyly ; not by way of position as a thing on which i insisted , but only pleasantly ( that some ( it may be of your perswasion ) &c. ) but such is the judgment , the exactness of judgment of our great disputer , that he takes as spoken seriously , that which was but pleasantly spoken ; making it to contradict what other where i say , concerning the novelty of his perswasion . and to perswade his reader the better ( for none that is mine can think so , ) that he hath grounds for what he says ; he falsely represents my words , and makes me say ( pag. 3. ) that it is probable , those that would not suffer little children to come to christ were of his perswasion . is not this an honest disputant , or rather a cunning sophister ? i said ( some , it may be , of your perswasion . and , it may be , is but happily , and that at most , is but a possibility , and he hath made probability of it : in a word , hath made a serious matter of what was only intended for a divertive one . but of this i doubt not but i shall hear again , and be rhimed for it . in the mean time , i will ask him one hard question , ( viz. ) where it is that i do say , ( as he says i do ) to this purpose , ( that 't is probable , &c. ) sure he can never find it , but where he finds , that mahomet's tomb at mecca , to use his own expression ( pag. 5. ) is said to hang by geometry ; or that the licians suffered none to propose a new law but at his peril , ( pag. 5. ) and that is no where , but either in his own common-place-book , or ( to speak in his own most civil language ) within his own pericranium ; and there , magnetism and geometry , serious and pleasant , licians and locrians , scotus and sotus are all one : and not so much as mensa , as a table between them . i have ended with the reflexions which he makes as to the harmony of my argument , the which you see , are so rarely proper , and so judicious , that you may well believe ( though he say it himself pag. 64. ) that his reader will find ( namely in his book ) somewhat of brain as well as tongue : and somewhat of his brain you have already had , upon the harmony of the argument . now , you shall have somewhat too of his tongue , upon the novelty of it . and upon this head ; first , he gravely informs me , that innovators hear not well among the judicious ) ( p. 4. ) as if anabaptists were not innovators ; but all for antiquity , and the good old way . secondly ; he is again at his tales , that the licians ( he should have said the locrians ) suffered none to propose a new law but at his own peril ) ( p. 5. ) as if arguments were lawes ; or that infants baptisme were not setled by ours . in fine ; he adds , ( and you may think from pure love ) that the church of england ( by all means , he is much concerned for her ; ) and all other the assertors and advocates of infants baptism on the old foundations , are more concerned in one passage than he ) ( p. 5. ) as if all , of all orders , were fast asleep ; and all like to be lost , unless a goose a second time , should save the capitol . you see sir , his extraordinary courtesie for the church of england , as well as for other the advocates and assertors of infants baptism but i hope this church and those other advocates and assertors of infants baptism , will not , for all that , be wheedled into a mistake . you may be sure his courtesie is but polyphemus ' s ; now indeed , he fights against one ; but know , he hath a reserve for all ( you now must look to your old foundations ; he is principally ( p. 5. ) at present at least ) only concerned about the new one . ) mark that , ( at present at least . ) this church , no more then others , hath no entire security ( from him ; ) it is not a peace but only a cessation he grants . ( he is at present only concerned about the new one ; ) but time may come for the old ones too ; and really , he is provided already if such a time shall come ; for ( as you had it before , in his letter ) he hath a very large discourse which he had before compiled , in which he doth consider and give answer to all the most material arguments which are usually insisted on for justification of the practice of infants baptism , &c. the church of england it seems ( for all his kindness to her ) and all other the advocates and assertors of infants baptism ( though now he claws them ) might have heard of him sooner ; ay , and have felt him too before this ; but that , unluckily for my self , but luckily enough for this church , and for those other advocates and assertors , i did come in his way ; and now , the cry is novelty ! novelty ! truly i think it very needless , ( and i could wish that others thought so too ) to vindicate my self from his extravegancies upon his topick , and to tell you , that the title page of my book on which he principally grounds them , as it went from me , was nakedly this : an argument for infants-baptism deduced from the analogy of faith , and harmony of the scriptures . and what is added , if any imputation can be laid to it , of gaudiness or ostentation , it must be put on the book-seller , as the occasioner of it . i acknowledge it is said , that the method is wholly new , and that it certainly is ; but it is not said as this disputer doth report it , that the argument is wholly new. method and matter are very different things , and in the very title , where it is noted that the method is wholly new ; it is said of the grounds , and these are matter , not that they are wholly new , but that they are not commonly observed . implying , that they may have been , and are , by some , observed , though , happily , not by every body : and who will say they were ? and when i say , the argument as i do manage it , hath little authority ; 't is manifest i speak not of the argument as to the matter and grounds of it ; but as to the method and form of managing of it . i say not , the argument simply , but the argument as i do manage it : the method of management is mine , and is new ; but the grounds on which it is bottomed are not new ; but are as old as the church , and as the bible . in fine , to alter schemes , is not to innovate articles : schemes are but dispositions of matter , and may be exceeding various , and often are , even where the matter for the main is the same . but what if the argument were new , and all as new as the method ? would it to a man of conscience , a seeker of light , a lover of truth , go the less in value but for that , if it is good ? it is not antiquity any more than novelty : it is verity only , that ought to be considered by conscience , and indeed that is ; for , as old arguments are not entertained by it , only , because they are old . so new ones are not rejected , only , because they are new . dies diem docet : but i may not so much imitate the weakness of my adversary , as to fall a common placing , and therefore i say no more as to this . thus sir , i have followed my adversary in his prosecution of his two topicks , harmony and novelty , and have considered his reflections ; and now , should very gladly dismiss a subject so unpleasant ; and so little to edification : but that in a charge he makes upon me , both in his epistle to the reader , and in other places , there is another instance of his falshood , malice , and calumny , proper fruits of that distemper ( zeal you must believe it for the abused word of god ) which ( as himself tells you ) did put him out of his temper and warmed him . ) and this i might not omit , he sayes , ( he dares refer himself wholly to his reader , whither i have not with equal absurdity ( for so he modestly expresses it ) first , made abraham the representative of the carnal seed . secondly , included baptism in the 17 th . of genesis . and thirdly , excluded the first grand promise out of genesis . 3. 15 , &c. and he wonders ( for he is given to wondering , ) that i should see a command for infants baptism in genesis 17 th . and not discern a covenant of grace in the third of genesis . for this matter he dares refer himsef to the reader . ) and indeed it is a daring matter . for as to the first , that i should make abraham the representative of the carnal seed ) as he expresses it , simply and absolutely ; so , it is another calumny , and is maliciously said ; for in that very letter in which i do explain my self as to this particular , there ( p. 157. ) my words are these ; ( on the whole , it is not absurd , if duly weighed , to say ( which yet i do not peremptorily say , ) that in that part of the covenant in which abraham is joyned with the seed , he should stand for his natural posterity , as the seed doth for christ mystical . ) and now let the reader judge ; am i not so far from a possitive affirmation of what he says i make , that i say in terms , i do not possitively affirm it ? what i said , is evidently said not by way of position of what i did conceive as certain ; but by way of proposal , of what was yet uncertain to me , but which yet might merit consideration : and more is to be said for it , than happily this disputer can answer . indeed in genesis 17. 10. there , under the term ( ye ) abraham and ishmael and the rest of the family then present are comprehended , and those i take it , did represent and stand for the natural family . as to the second , namely baptism in genesis 17 ; ) i never said in terms that there was any immediate command for baptism in genesis 17. i knew the institution of baptism was long after . i only said , and still say , that an obligation is lay'd in genesis 17. 9. not only upon abraham himself , to keep the covenant , that is , the sign of the covenant , but upon his seed also ; and the apostle says , that this seed is christ , christ mysticall , or the believing gentiles . and is this an absurdity ? what i say , is in the letter of the text ; and what the apostle says , i hope is no absurdity . i take it for granted , because the apostle says it , that the seed is christ. to disprove that , is not to put the absurdity on me , but on the apostle . as for the third , which is concerning the covenant of grace in genesis 3. 15 ) i still affirm , and still believe i may without absurdity , that though by the seed of the woman in that text , our saviour christ be meant , and consequently , that he is predicted there , and was prefigured also in sacrifices ; yet , that nothing there doth pass by way of covenant , or is spoken of christ there by way of promise to adam ; all is by way of denunciation on the serpent . i say , all that is spoken there is spoken but to the serpent , not to adam ; and let him that thinks otherwise , but look into the text and see if it be not . i appeal from unwarie prejudices , unto common sense . but of this , as i have spoken somewhat in my printed letters , from page the 99 th . to page the 106. so i have discoursed more fully ( of it , ) with persons of a greater caracter , and of more integrity and candour , than our present disputer ; wherein , one day , the reader may receive satisfaction . but for my antagonist , he thought , this was a popular point , and that it would affect me , and therefore only he insists upon it , and so often inculcates it ; and is not this malicious ? why had he not argued it out ? as i expected he should , but that 't is much easier to exclaim and calumniate , than to demonstrate and argue . and now i am come ( and very glad i am , that i am come ) to the fourth thing i promised ; and that is , briefly to state again the argument i made , and to shew , how little he is in his reply unto that , who is so great , in callumniating , and in perverting . and the method i will take shall be , first , to lay down the grounds of the argument , and then to form it . the ground i go upon is this , that the covenant established by god with abraham , and with his seed , in genesis 17. 7 , 8 , 9. is the covenant of grace ; or that original grant , and great charter , by which believing gentiles always did , and do claim both heaven and earth , and all the promises they have title to ; as also , that abraham is the person by , from , and vnder whom they claim ; as being his seed . if christ's then abraham's seed , and heir's according to the promise . in this covenant , as in all others that are proper , there is , first , a promise on the one part , and then , secondly , a restipulation on the other : a promise on god's part ; and then a restipulation upon abraham's part , and upon his seed's . as for the promise that god doth make to abraham , and to his seed , it is ( vers. 7 , 8. ) that he will be a god to abraham , and to his seed , and will give to abraham , and to his seed , &c. and this promise made to abraham , in which almighty god doth give himself , and all he hath to him , is called by the apostle the blessing of abraham ; of which he says , that it doth descend on the gentiles , gal. 3. as for the restipulation , which is on the part of abraham , and of his seed , it is ( vers. 9. ) thou shalt keep my covenant therefore thou and thy seed ; in which restipulation , it being the main thing on which i do insist in reference to my argument , i shall ( in order to the making clear whatever any wise relates unto it , and so concerns our present purpose ) particularly consider , first , the nature of the duty in it , thou shalt keep my covenant , and shew what is imported in that expression . secondly , i will shew the propriety of this duty , that it is a duty bound on abraham by this covenant , as his proper duty , in reference to it , and to the blessing in it . thirdly , i will demonstrate , that the subjects in this restipulation and duty , or the persons upon whom the duty and incumbence is bound , are abraham and his seed , and that abraham's seed is , principally , the believing gentiles . as for the nature of the duty , or what is meant by keeping of the covenant . it was , at last , agreed between us ( and i in my argument , fol. 132. 133. abundantly have proved ) that to keep gods covenant , which is the duty injoyned , is to keep the sign of gods covenant ; and it must be granted also , that to keep the sign , is , for him that keeps it , not only to wear that sign himself , but to put it upon all his , in token , that as he himself , so that all he owns , is god's . this i proved in my first letter , from pag. 16. to pag. 23. and confirmed in my advertisement ; to which i add now another consideration to make it further manifest ; namely , that in the covenant , ( and the covenant for substance is but one and the same ) whereas god is pleased to say in genesis , 17. i will be a god to thee and thy seed , and will give to thee and thy seed , &c. and therefore thou and thy seed shall keep my covenant , and to keep his covenant , is to keep the sign of his covenant . i say , whereas he speaks so in genesis , 17. he saith in jer. 31. 17. ( where he repeats the same covenant , ) i will be their god , and they s●all be my people ; what in genesis is expressed by their keeping of the covenant or sign , is in jeremy expressed , by their being gods propriety , or own : so that , these are equivalent terms ; and the keeping of the covenant of god ( or his sign , ) is only to denote the propriety that those who are in covenant with god do all acknowledge , all own that he hath in them , and in all theirs . and thus it was interpr●ted to abraham ; who was not only to be circumcised himself , but to see that all his males , old and young were circumcised ; and in his males , who only were actually circumcised , and only capable of being so , the females also were reputed included . for ( as i said in my former discourse ) as the sign was directly given only to the males , so the promise also in terms , was only to the males , abraham and isaack ; but then , as the females were included in the males in the covenant ( for who will deny that ? ) so , by like reason , they were included also in the sign . it is but reason that concludes the former , and the same reason will conclude the latter . besides , who will say the females were excluded the passover ? were they not of the congregation of the lord , and members of the families , or houses , in which the passover was eaten , and by which ? are they excluded any where ? and is it not plainly intimated both by maimonides and by other rabbins , that even they also did celebrate that feast ; but yet , none uncircumcised might . well then , the duty bound upon abraham , and upon his seed by the covenant , is to keep the covenant or sign , by wearing of it themselves , and by putting of it upon all theirs , in token of gods propriety . the next thing is , to shew that this duty which is bound upon abraham , and upon his seed , by the covenant , is the proper duty of the covenant . and what can be more plain than that it is , seeing , first , it is bound upon them in reference to the promise , as a consequence of it ; i will be a god to thee and thy seed , and i will give to thee and thy seed ; there is the promise : thou shalt keep my covenant therefore , thou and thy seed ; there is the consequent duty . and 't is the only duty mentioned , as required by god by way of restipulation . and indeed , secondly , it is called keeping of the covenant , and therefore , must needs be bound upon them by vertue of the covenant , as the proper duty and incumbence of it . in fine , it is most highly reasonable that it should be so ; for as god in this covenant solemnly , by promise and by oath , doth give himself and all his to abraham , and to his seed ; is it not most fit , most proper , that , by way of correspondence , abraham and his seed should solemnly , ( and that is by some open and external rite , and act , and such an act and rite , signing is , ) give up themselves and theirs again to god ? and here , by the way , it is observable ; that , seeing the command to keep the covenant , is lay'd upon abraham , and upon his seed ; and seeing keeping of the covenant is keeping of the sign of it , in token of god's propriety ; it follows , that putting of the sign on children , and on servants , is not done , at least not principally , by vertue of any title , right , or priviledge which these children , or servants have , by vertue of their own immediate being in the covenant ; but it is done , in consequence of the duty and incumbence under which the parents and masters are , by vertue of the covenant in which they do restipulate , and so , take on them this duty . as for the subjects in the covenant , or those on whom the duty and incumbence in it is bound , which is the third thing to be demonstrated , they are abraham and his seed , or abraham and isaac ; and in isaac , christ mystical , or the believing gentiles , abraham's spiritual seed . and that christ mystical , or christ and believing gentiles are intended principally , by the seed ; i manifested in my first letter , ( p. 24. 25. ) in my second letter ( from p. 128. to 132. ) and in my last letter , from romans 4 th 13 , 16 , 17 ; which text doth put it out of all question , that isaac did not only typifie and figure the believing gentiles in the manner of his birth ( as my adversary would have it only do , ) but that he did also stand for them , and represent them in the covenant of promise . and if isaac represented the believinggentiles , and did stand for them ( as he did ) in the covenant of promise , then certainly whatever duty by virtue of that covenant , was bound upon him , that very duty , by virtue of the same covenant , was also bound upon them ; else , how could he stand for them and represent them in it ! this interpretation of that text is so plain , so evident , that even my adversary in his last letter ( p. 115. ) says , i well expounded romans 4. 13 , 16. 17. ) but what he adds ( viz. ) that i do so to this purpose , namely to prove isaac a type and figure of the believing gentiles in the way and manner of his super-natural birth , to which our regeneration in some sort corresponds . that 's another falshood , another impious fraud , and made on purpose to deceive his party ; that when he cannot answer me , he may yet impose upon them . for that i had no such purpose there as he insinuates , is plain ; for there i prove , that isaac represented the believing gentiles , or spiritual seed , not only in the promise ; but in the duty and obligation also , bound upon the seed by vertue of that promise ; and i appeal unto his own party , or to any man else that is of sence in all the world , that will comparehis letter and mine , if this be not so . this is the ground on which i state my argument , which thus i form. if the believing gentiles are under abraham's covenant , are abraham's seed , and are principally meant in the 17 th . genesis 9 th . then , the believing gentiles are to keep gods covenant : the consequence is evident , the text is plain for it ; thou and thy seed shall keep my covenant . and if to keep god's covenant there , be to keep the sign of his covenant , by wearing of it themselves , and putting it on all theirs , in token of gods propriety ; then if believing gentiles be to keep god's covenant , they are to keep the sign of it , by wearing of it themselves , and putting it on all theirs , in token of gods propriety , and title : ( themselves must be signed , and , all theirs also must be signed . ) now , the believing gentiles are under abraham's covenant , are abraham's seed , and are principally meant and intended in genesis 17.9 . as i have proved ; and to keep gods covenant there , is to keep the sign of god's covenant , by wearing of it themselves , and putting it on all theirs , in token of god's propriety in them , and title to them , as i have also proved before ; and therefore the believing gentiles are to keep god's covenant , god's sign , by wearing it themselves , and putting it on all theirs , in token of gods propriety in them , and title to them ; which sign must be , either baptism , or circumcision , or some other sign . but for the greater elucidation , i will break the argument abroad , into shorter sillogismes . abraham's seed must keep god's covenant ; the believing gentiles are abraham's seed ; therefore the believing gentiles must keep god's covenant . to keep god's covenant is to keep the sign of it ; the believing gentiles must keep god's covenant ; therefore the believing gentiles must keep the sign of it . to keep the sign of god's covenant , is to wear it themselves , and to put it upon all theirs , in token of god's propriety in them , and title to them ; the believing gentiles are to keep the sign of god's covenant ; therefore the believing gentiles are to wear it themselves , and to put it upon all theirs , in token of god's propriety in them , and title to them . abraham's seed must keep the covenant , and to keep the covenant is to keep the sign ; thou shalt keep my covenant therefore thou and thy seed . a sign of the covenant then , there must be in the time of the seed ; else , how shall the seed keep it ? they cannot keep the sign of the covenant , if the covenant have no sign . some sign then the believing gentiles , which are the seed , must keep , by wearing it themselves , and putting it on all theirs ; and if any , let this disputer tell ( as i said ) whither it shall be baptism , or circumcision , or what ; for i need to go no further . only here , as we go along , it may not be unfit , in order to the preventing of further calumny , to observe , that when i speak in reference to a sign , of taking it themselves , and putting it on all theirs , i mean nothing but their being signed themselves , and their seeing that all theirs be also signed ; without considering here , or intending to consider , who is the minister of the sign : but only who is the subject . this is my argument , which in my letter i did lay on four propositions . first , that the covenant or blessing of abraham , which is the promise of the spirit , is that covenant of god , under which believing gentiles , the spiritual seed of abraham , are : and is the blessing that doth descend on the gentiles . secondly , that all the seed of abraham , that hath the benefit and advantage , of the covenant and blessing of abraham , is under equal obligation , to the duty and incumbence of that covenant , of that blessing , as abraham himself . thirdly , that the duty or incumbence arising from the covenant , or blessing made to abraham , is , that , in token of his dedication of himself , and of all his unto god , he should take himself , and should put upon all his , the sign of the covenant : which is the mark and sign of god. fourthly , that from abraham's dedication of himself , and of all his unto god , there ariseth a distinction of holiness , into internal and external , absolute and relative ; and that this distinction is evangelical . from these grounds i drew the former conclusion : and you may take the argument from them briefly , thus. the blessing doth descend upon the believing gentiles , and therefore the proper duty of that blessing doth descend also : and this is the proper duty of that blessing , to see that both themselves , and all theirs be signed , in token of god's propriety : and the believer , that gives himself sincerely , is internally holy : and those that are given by him are externally so . 't is you see in the former four propositions , ( which even my adversary himself doth also acknowledge , pag. 25. ) that the main strength of my argument for infants baptism consists : and yet , it is plain , that , hitherto , there is no need of any criticism , much less of exactness of criticism , and least of all , of exactness of criticism as a part of humane learning : either to conceive , or to make it : but as it is , i pray you let us take a view of his reply unto it ; comparing what i say for infants baptism , with what he answers to that i say . but before we do so , give me leave to tell you , that his way of replying thrusts into my thoughts a story i have read long ago in keckerman , ( and i hope i may be pardoned if i shall tell one story , when he does many ) it is , that a certain respondent being non-plust by his opponent , and unable to conceive any sensible answer to return to him , makes use of two nonsensical , but strong words , to chouse him . if ( says he ) mr. opponent you do take it archepadial●ter , i grant it ; but if reflexive , i deny it : that is , if you take it nonsensicaly one way , i grant it ; if you take it nonsensicaly another way , i deny it : and thus i take it , my respondent deals with me ; and he may be sure , and i believe he knows it , that i have not been the only person who have said so of him , on this occasion . i hope , you will not think i go about to abuse him , it is the very truth i tell you ; for what distinct , what proper sence is there in what he says in answer ? or what application of it can be made to either proposition ? which yet , he would be thought to reply unto ; but , inded doth only elude : for , in answer to the several four forementioned propositions , he speaks thus. in your first proposition , i only allow the spiritual essence of the covenant to descend upon believing gentiles ; but that the additaments and appendages being variable things , and separable from it , do not necessarily descend with it i have elsewhere at large evinced unto you . here he should have told us , what is the essence , what the spiritual essence of the covenant , and what the additaments , and should have applyed it . in your second proposition , i allow that the seed of believing gentiles that have the benefit of abraham's covenant , and to whom it is made , are under an equal obligation unto those proper duties and services now required of them , as abraham was himself ; understanding it of the adult believing off-spring , and not the infants of believing gentiles . my second proposition speaks of the seed of abraham , ( viz. ) the believing gentiles : his answer of their children only . in your third proposition , i allow that the believing gentiles are obliged to dedicate themselves and all that is theirs to god , as abraham was . but in as much as there is a double dedication , the one by baptism , and the other by religious education and fervent supplication , this latter dedication i allow ; the former as it respects our infant seed , for the reasons i have elsewhere given you i deny . i say there , that signing is the proper duty of the covenant ; what is this to that ? in your fourth proposition concerning a twofold holiness , external and internal , absolute and relative , arising from the covenant , though i grant that so it was under the former administration , yet i have elsewhere proved that as for any external or relative holiness then arising from the covenant , it is now abolished . and as i have already also demonstrated that the first of cor. 7. 14. doth not at all prove the continuation thereof in the gospel-day , so neither is there any other scripture that i know of , that can be pertinently alledged , for the justification of such a notion . though i grant that there is an external and internal holyness now arising among gentile professors , the latter from the covenant , the former from a meer pretension to it . you see his demonstrations ( as he calls 'em ) his proofs which should be here , are all elsewhere . but what if they were here ? what in all this is to the business in hand ? for if the promise or blessing of abraham do descend upon his seed , the believing gentiles ; and the proper duty of that promise or blessing ( which descends ) doth also descend ; and to be signed themselves , and to see that all theirs be signed also , in token of gods propriety and title , is that proper duty : then let him talk of spiritual essence that doth descend , and of appendages that do not ; of proper duties and services now required of them , understanding it of adult believing off-spring , and not the infant seed of believing gentiles ; and that the dedication must be by religions education and supplication , not by baptism . i say , let him talk in this fashion as long , as long as he lives : it will certainly follow for all that ; that the proper duty now requir'd of believing gentiles , is to sign themselves , and t o see that all theirs ( their children also ) are signed ; which as i said , must either be with baptism , or with circumcision , or with some other sign ; let him tell which , or what . for mark it , shall the blessing descend , and not the proper duty of that blessing ? is not to keep the covenant , as much a duty bound upon the seed , as the promise , a blessing made to it ? ay! is not thou shalt keep my covenant therefore thou and thy seed , as plainly said , as i will be a god to thee and to thy seed , and will give to th●e and to thy seed ? and if to keep the covenant be , ( as it is agreed to be ) to keep the sign , let him distinguish as he will , ( with spiritual essence , and appendages ; with proper duty now , and then ; with dedication by religious education , and by baptism . that is , with archepodialiter and reflexive : certainly , to keep the sign , is as much the proper duty of the seed , and as much bound upon it , and all as fast , as the promise it self is made unto it : and if the gentiles that believe , are ( as i have proved , and as the apostle says they are ) that seed ; then , to keep the sign , is as much the proper duty of the gentiles , that believe , and as much bound on them , and all as fast , as the promise and blessing there , is made unto them . and this is not only high reason , but god's express will : thou shalt keep my covenant therefore thou and thy seed . it is god's mind , therefore it is to be done : and that this is a proper way of arguing , himself says , pag. 27. you may think it is impossible to speak more plainly , and more closely to any point , than here i have to this ; and that certainly the 17 th of genesis 9 th . is very much to purpose , as to an obligation upon gentile believers or abraham's seed , with reference to the keeping of some sign , and in the last result , to the keeping of baptism ; and happily you will think there needs no more than what is said already , to make it manifest , and beyond dispute . but sir , if these are your thoughts , they are not my adversaries ; he tells me plainly , that if i will find a rule as he spakes ) in genesis 17. or ( as my self do word it , ) if i will find any obligation there upon believing gentiles to keep the sign , in the way i have mentioned ; it will be incumbent on me to prove , first ; my three partys ( as he calls them ) in the covenant there mentioned . secondly , my two signs ; thirdly , that abraham represented the carnall seed only in circumcision , and isaac , the spiritual seed in baptism . ) i know it must exceedingly surprize you , to see me put on three new issues ; especially , seeing in his fifth letter ( p. 71. ) all was fairly and candidly agreed ( for so he speaks , ) to depend on two others , ( viz ) the duty and the subjects ; and seeing also , he might as well have put me upon proving that the pope is antichrist , that the earth is a planet , or that there is a world in the moon , as on proving the points he mentions ; so little they are to the purpose . for , whither three partys are in the covenant , or but two provided abraham's seed be included in one of them , and that seed be believing gentiles : and though but one sign be spoken of determinately and particularly , and no more , and that one be circumcision ; provided genesis 17. 9. be understood of signing generally : and though abraham represented not the carnall seed only in circumcision , nor isaac the believing gentiles at all in baptism , seeing he was never baptised : yet , if isaac represented the believing gentiles in the covenant , namely , in the promise verse the 7 th . and 8 th . and in the obligation and incumbence verse 9 th . though he did not represent them ( as certainly he did not ) in baptism ; ( yet ) it will as clearly follow , that the obligation and incumbence which was bound on isaac verse the 9 th . as he represented the beli●ving gentiles , was , in him , in that verse bound on most fast upon them ; as , that the promise and blessing which in verses 7. 8. was made to him , was in those verses , in him , made and confirmed also unto them ; and if that obligation and incumbence be to keep the covenant , and to keep the covenant be to keep the sign ; they must as surely keep the sign , by vertue of that covenant ; as , by vertue of it , hope for the blessing . the duty is as much bound on the seed , as , the promise is made to it ; thou shalt keep my covenant therefore thou and thy seed . this ( i must tell him again ) is as plainly said as , i will be a god to thee and to thy seed , and give to thee and to thy seed ; and the same seed is under the obligation , that is within the promise . these are not things that are barely said , but are abundantly proved before , and evident in the text. i know he says ( p. 50 ) that as to what concerns the obligation , there is nothing in the whole 17 th of genesis but what relates to abraham and his natural family ony , &c. god only then designing to signifie unto abraham together with his natural seed and family , what was their present duty under the then present administration ) and that god did signifie their present duty under that administration is beyond dispute ; for therefore he instituted circumcision , as that duty . but that in that whole chapter he should signify nothing as duty and incumbence , but with reference only unto abraham and to his natural seed and family , can no more be said , than that he signified nothing there as a blessing promise and priviledge , but unto abraham and to his natural seed and family , only . for , the same persons , plainly , are in the duty and incumbence , that are in the blessing an d promise , i will be a god to thee and to thy seed ; i will give to thee and to thy seed ; and therefore thou and thy seed shall keep my covenant . and who shall be believed ? the apostle that said , that that seed is christ , christ mysticall ; or this disputer that saith , no seed is meant there , but the natural seed and family . but shall the seed indeed be within the promise and blessing , and not under the duty and obligation ? when yet the same covenant , and god in the same continued speech , and to the same persons under the same denomination , ( viz. abraham and his seed ) doth both bind on the duty and make the promise : who , but such a tender man as this is will dare to say , that one must still abide , and the other be lay'd aside ; that we may take the blessing but leave the duty ? certainly they that will not look to the old testament , for new testament dutys , must not look to the old testament , for new testament priviledges . we must not claim by the old testament promise and blessing , if we will not be under the proper duty and service , of that promise and blessing . but to return to his three points , of which he says , it is incumbent upon me to prove them , if i will find believing gentiles any wise concerned in the 17 tth . of genesis , with reference to signing ; the first is , my three partys ; the second my two signs ; the third , abraham's standing for the carnal seed in circumcision , and isaac's for the spiritual in baptism . ) to the first , that the covenant is tripartite ; though still i say as i have said already , that , as to my argument , i need not stand thereon ; yet , it is evident enough , from what i urged in my last letter , ( p. 155. 156. ) to which i expect a distinct answer . and indeed , the three partys are distinctly noted , and are god , abraham and abraham's seed ; for first , the covenant is made between god , and abraham , singly and separately , in his own person , genesis 17. 2 , 4 , 5 , 6. but then , in verses 7 , 8 , 9. abraham's seed is taken in as well as abraham's self ; and so , the the covenant , which , had it been only between god and abraham , would have been but bipartite ; now , another party being taken in or added , namely , abraham's seed ; becomes tripartite . to this , his answer is in the sixth letter , in which he glorys as unanswered ; and there he says , ( p. 121. ) that there was a covenant between god the father and christ , and after that a covenant taking in all his seed , called the covenant of grace , and ( says he ) doth that make it tripartite ? are not christ and believers considered as one party ? ) you see how theologically and how divine-like he speaks ( if this be he that speaks and not some supervisor ) as if the covenant of redemption , which yet ( to note it by the by ) is never called , in express terms , a covenant , in all the scripture ; as if that covenant were the same ( covenant ) with the covenant of grace , and that what passed between god the father and the son before the worlds were , was the very same with what passed between god and abraham and his seed , in time . the covenant of redemption indeed was bipartite , it was between god and christ only : but the covenant of grace is tripartite , between god , abraham , and abraham's seed or christ , for isaac the seed , is christ. in the covenant of redemption are but two named , but in this covenant of grace are three partys . but on this , as being a logomachy and strife about words , i do not much insist . the second point to be proved , is , ( he says ) my two signs . and that baptism and circumcision are two signs , is not hard to be proved ; but doubtless , that is not his meaning ; he hath the confidence to say , that i do make two signs , not only under the two administrations , but two determinate particular signs in genesis 17. namely , baptism in the 9 th verse , which says , ( but falsly , ) i call the sign ; and circumcision in the 10 th for saith he ( p. 80. ) thus runs your own paraphrase upon the words ; therefore thou abraham and thy seed isaac in the letter and spirit , shall keep the sign of my covenant , that is , both he and they , and thou also must be baptised . ( p. 114 ) he says ; but say you though isaac was circumcised , and ishmael too , yet there are two signs in that text circumcision and baptism . ) and ( p. 115. ) he says , but that there is any such sign as baptism in genesis 17 th . and that isaac was signed by it as a type or figure of the gentile believers ( as you now seem to affirm , and your paraphrase imports ) i deny &c. ) you sir , who have perused my letters , know very well how false and how imposturous an imputation this is ; and bad is that cause , which cannot be upheld but with impostures , lyes , and forgeries . but ( for the rectifying of others , who happily have not seen those letters , and who , otherwise , may be too credulous to this inventor , ) i must say , i was so far from affirming any thing of any tendency to what he impudently fastens upon me in the former passages , that i never once thought it ; i only affirmed , that isaac ( abraham's seed ) did represent and stand for believing gentiles in the covenant , both as to the promise and blessing given to them and to the duty and incumbence put upon them ; this i did say , and but this ; and this , let him confute it if he can . nor did i ever say , that there were two determinate and particular signs , namely , circumcision and baptism , either instituted , or immediately intended in the seventeenth of genesis ; i said , that in the seventeenth of genesis , there was a double obligation , namely , first , a more general one , verse the ninth , imposed upon abraham and upon his seed , ( viz. ) isaac in the spirit principally ; and that was in general terms to keep the covenant ; and to keep the covenant , is to keep the sign of the covenant , which i said , must be understood generally , for keeping the covenant in the sign of it , whatever the sign at any time be : and not particularly and determinately , for keeping of it immediately in circumcision or in baptism , or in any other particular sign . secondly , the particular obligation is in verse the tenth , and this is laid upon abraham and his natural family , but not , in terms , upon abraham's seed : and it is an obligation unto circumcision : this being the particular sign of the covenant for that administration of it . but to this he tells me , ( pag. 58. ) you tax me ( and i believe by this , you see that i had reason to tax him ) for a bold abuse in saying , that you intimate that baptism is immediately intended in the ninth verse of genesis , seventeenth . mark your own word , not instituted , but intended : whence i argue , if baptism be neither there instituted nor intended , if it be not in the letter , nor intention of that text , it is not there at all. here this wyre-drawing man , instead of giving satisfaction to my first taxation ( as he calls it ) shamelesly incurs a second ; for his perversion of my words , in what he says , is so notorious , that truly it was for pitties sake i passed it over in my last letter , without a reply ; and yet he tryumphs in it , that this was never answered . i said , and do say , that baptism is not immediately intended in the seventeenth of genesis , ninth , and that the sense of that verse is general and indeterminate ; whereas , if baptism , or circumcision either , were immediately intended , it must have been determinate and particular , not speaking ( as it doth ) of signing in general , but of signing with this or that particular sign , which it doth not immediately . but i pray you sir , observe here his extraordinary skill in making of arguments , for thus he forms his : if baptism be neither instituted nor intended in the text , ( he should have said immediately intended , for so i did : ) and again , if baptism be neither in the letter nor in the intention ( for so he varies again , to tenter it unto his purpose , for i never said so . ) what then ? then it is not at all there ; well concluded : if it be not at all there , it is not at all there . i said , it is not immediately intended ; this he reports ; ( if it be not in the letter nor in the intention , ) and that you will say , is very wisely said of him ; as if the letter and the intention were opposites , and that that were not in the letter of a text , which is intended in it ; nor that intended in a text , which is in the letter of it ; whereas all other men , but he , do think that that is intended in a text , which is the sense of it ; and that to be intended is no more than to be meant . and may not that be mediately , i do not say remotely , as he doth , to make a quibble upon it ( ay , remotely enough ) may not that be mediately meant and intended , which is not so immediately ? and that secondarily , which is not so primarily ? yes , doubtless . and so all particular instances are intended and meant in general propositions ; not immediately and primarily , for so the sense is only general , else the proposition were not so ; but secondarily and mediately . and thus baptism may be intended in the seventeenth of genesis ninth , thou shalt keep my covenant , my sign , thou and thy seed : not immediately , for so the sence is but general and indeterminate , god not having yet discovered in what particular sign or covenant , either abraham , or his seed should keep it ; but it may be mediately intended , as it is a particular sign of the covenant . i do not say , that the sign of the covenant must be kept generally and indeterminately ; but i say , that those words verse the ninth . thou shalt keep my covenant ( or my sign ) therefore , thou and thy seed . ) must be understood generally , and indeterminately . but though the sense be general and indeterminate in the ninth verse , both as to abraham and to his seed , yet in the tenth it is determined , as to abraham and to his natural family ; though not as to his spiritual seed . and if determined but in the tenth , it was not yet determined in the ninth . i thought once to have said no more upon this particular , than what i had before ; my meaning and intention in it being so perspicuous , to prudent and understanding readers ; and his absurdity and grosness in opposing it , so plain and manifest . but the opinion of the many , with whom the last word is always a sufficient answer , hath made it necessary that i should say more . and therefore , once for all , to put my meaning out of doubt ( if it can be yet in any , ) i will here a little further illustrate it . and to this purpose ; it having pleased god to say in the 17 th . of genesis , 9. thou shalt keep my covenant therefore , thou and thy seed ; understanding , by keeping the covenant a keeping the sign ; let us suppose he should have added , in the tenth verse ; circumcision is the covenant or sign which thou abraham shalt keep , and baptism the conant or sign thy seed shall keep . would it not in this case , be very evident that keeping of the covenant or sign in the ninth verse , must be understood but generally , and indeterminately , not , as yet for a keeping either of circumcision , or of baptism in particular , but generally keeping gods sign be it what it will , when he shall please to institute it . now as god hath said , thu shalt keep my covenant therefore , thou and thy seed in the ninth verse , so he hath said partitively , this is the covenant that thou shalt keep , for so the seventy render it ; or , that you shall keep , ( distinguishing you from thy seed ) for so the hebrew . but though he say what covenant , or sign it was that abraham himself and his present family should keep , he leaves unsaid , as not proper yet to say , what sign or covenant the spiritual seed of abraham should keep ; for that seed being yet un-born , it was but reason that the covenant or sign it was to keep , should not yet be instituted . ishmael was at the institution of circumcision , isaac was not there . ishmael that stood for the natural family , he was there ; isaac that stood for the spiritual family , was then vn-born ; and this timing of the institution , of circumcision , as inoted before , should be insisted upon ; it signifies much . but , in regard my adversary will be apt to tell me , that the case i put is but supposition , and one may suppose any thing ; i shall therefore take the text as it lyes , and only ask him two or three questions , to which i do expect direct and categoricall answers . the first is , whither circumcision were actually instituted in the 9 th . verse ? for if it was not , ( as indeed it was not , for it was not instituted but in the 10 th . ) then certainly to keep the covenant in verse 9. could not be determinately to keep circumcision . i ask him again , if this proposition , circumcision is gods covenant , or gods sign , be an identick proposition , and do signify no more , than that circumcision is circumcision ? for if he say it signifies more ( as i should think he will , ) then the term covenant or sign , in it , must signify generally and largely . in fine , i would ask him if when it pleased god to say , this is my covenant which you shall keep , every man child among you shall be circumcised , he then said no more than what he had before in verse the 9 th . thou shalt keep my covenant therefore , thou and thy seed ? for if god do say no more , or no other in verse 10. than he had said before in verse 9. then he saith but the same again ; but if he do say other , or more , ( as undoubtedly he does , for now and not before , he tells what the covenant is , ) then keeping of the covenant verse the 9 th . must be understood but generally ; as certainly it must , and i have evincedit must ; in some measure in my first letter ( p. 25 , 26 , 27. ) but more expressly , in my second ; from ( p. 85. to 91. ) and most fully in my last , from ( p. 150. to 154. ) in these places you will see the vanity of his boast ( p. 62. ) ( viz. ) that the sence cannot be general and indeterminate , for a general indeterminate sence is no sence . ) thus , general and appellative expressions are nonsensicall to this man , and ( owe no man any thing but to love one another , ) at this rate , shall signifie nothing ; ( as indeed , it seemeth not to signifie much with him ; because it is not said owe not james , peter , john , or paul , but ( owe no man , ) nothing but love. and so much for his two signs ; ) a fiction of his own , which he would fasten on me ; whereas i never spoke , or thought of two particular signs , as actually instituted in the 17 th . of genesis , but only of signing generally , spoken of verse 9. and of a particular sign instituted in verse the 10 th ; thus i spoke , and still speak ; which no more doth signifie two signs , than when one shall say , ( god made man a reasonable creature , and peter is a man , ) he speaks of two men ; of one in the former proposition , and of another in the latter . as to the third point which he would put me upon , which is to prove , that abraham represented the carnal seed only in circumcision , and isaac the spiritual seed in baptism ) i have spoken abundantly what my sense is , as to the former , already : and , as to the latter , i have also already shewed it a calumny as to the implication that isaac was baptised , and in baptism was a type . but though he was not a representative or figure of the spiritual seed of abraham , the believing gentiles , in baptism ; seeing he never was baptised ; yet that he was a representative of them in the covenant of promise , and that as well in the duty and obligation , as in the priviledge and blessing of it , is , i think , by this , beyond all dispute . but of all this i have said enough before ; isaac was not a representative of the believing gentiles in baptism , but in the covenant . as to the 1 cor 7. 14. from which i prove there is an external relative holiness under the gospel , as well as an internal and absolute ; he roundly tells his reader ( p. 24. ( for he never told me so before ; ) that as he hath already demonstrated , it doth not at all prove the continuation of any external or relative holiness arising from the covenant . ) but sir , you must not be too easy in believing of him as to demonstration , for i assure you , after what i answered in my first letter , ( from p. 33. to 49. ) which once you thought beyond exception , and , i hope , still do , i never received the least reply in any of his letters as to that ; and therefore , what he speaks ( p. 24. ) of demonstration here , it is as what he says of it in many other places , and with reference to many other particulars ( viz. ) but a vision of his too much heated fancy , and a popular charm . the world must know that he hath done great things some where , but he cannot tell where himself . not that i would have you think too confidently , that here he is catcht ; for though he have affirmed , as you may see he hath , that he has already demonstrated , when indeed he has not ; you must not presently believe he cannot make it out : for this , as difficult as you or i would think it ; it is an easie atchivement to a man of his performance . he that can find a sign in genesis 17. 9 , as implyed in the sence , ( for so he speaks p. 105. ) when yet himself says , the text mentions no sign at all or gives the least hint of any ; he i say that can affirm , the text mentions no sign at all , nor gives the least hint of any , and yet can interpret what he sayes , ( as he does , ) that there is no such term , or a syllable of that sound in the text ; that is he that can say a thing is in the sence of the text , that is neither mentioned , nor hinted in the least , in the terms of it ; he may say what he will ; you must not think to hold him ; if you think you have him fast in the very terms , he will give you the slip by a syllable of the sound ; and salve his contradictions with nonsense . to be mentioned and hinted , which ( with all others ) is , to be express'd and imply'd in a text ; by this interpreter , shall be understood of sounds , and not of senses , ay , though it be said , no mention nor hint of any sign ; and he that says ( any sign ) cannot be understood to mean the sound ( sign . ) the mention of the 1 cor. 7. 14 ; reminds me of his amazement , ( p. 128. ) for he is often amazed ; amazed much he was , at my exposition of genesis 17. 9. 10. and now again amazed almost as much , at my interpretation of rom. 4. in my argument ( from p. 166. to 168. ) and indeed , nothing but a mazement can excuse his great mistakes ; as , that i should say the reward to abraham was personal and earthly , and was of canaan only ; and that my expressions have a sound that is harsh and dissonant to rom. 4. and 4. ) my design in touching on this text , was only to evince that abraham's receiving circumcision as a seal of the righteousness by faith ( which he had urged , was nothing contradictory to what i said concerning his standing with ishmael , and the rest of the family gen. 17. 10. in the business of circumcision ; how that they stood for and represented there the whole natural houshold . that canaan was the reward of abraham's faith , who but such a sophister , dares soberly to deny it ? the text is plain for it . genesis 15. 17. but that heaven also was not his reward , i did not say ; no more then the text doth , which though in the letter it doth but mention canaan , yet surely , it did not exclude heaven . and as for the danger , and dissonancy in my expressions to romans 4. 4. i ask him ; was not the reward given to abraham , for his believing ? how else was it that his faith was accounted unto him for righteousness ? for though the reward was infinitely much superior to any desert of his faith , and was a thing that god in justice , was no ways oblig'd to make ; yet a reward it was , and a reward ( in the very idea and notion of it ) is of and for something : a reward it was , but a reward of grace , not of debt ; god gave it as a gratuity , for what abraham did ; but abraham could not have demanded it as his due , or a debt . after this he tells me ( p. 129. ) that all that follows to the close ( namely , in my last letter from p. 169. to the end . ) is but strife about words ; in which he finds not any thing but what doth nauseate . ) but you sir , will find a vindication in it of that ( but ) incerted in my paraphrase ; and also a demonstration in it that ( ye ) in genesis 17. 10. even from his own concessions , cannot be understood of abraham and that his seed which is in verse the 9 th . but must be meant of abraham ishmael , and the rest of the then present family ; and consequently , that circumcision was not then enjoyned on the seed as it stands in the 9 th verse , for the believing gentiles ; but only on the natural family ; which was the main thing to be proved . i do not know i have omitted any thing of moment , ( for his scoffs , jears , gibes , &c. are of none ) among his reflections : no , nor any thing in his last letter , that is to the purpose ; except a sophister will think i should consider his logick ( p. 120. ) and , because stierius and sanderson , and indeed other logicians , generally , do say , ( and he must be a very mean one that doth not know so much , ) that members of a division must be opposite ; meaning not properly , that they must be enemies ; but that they must not interfere and be coincident ; that therefore , it must be concluded , that all distinction is opposition ; that disparates are opposites ; and that god , abraham , and his seed , cou'd not be distinct partys , if they were not opposites , and even enemies to one another . but if any think so , i leave him to the care of this apothecary , and to hellebore . you may be pleas'd to see what i have said in my argument ( p. 153 , &c. ) as to this. upon the whole , sir , you cannot but observe how little reason there is to trust my adversary in citations and how much cause i have to make you and all his readers this request , that you never believe that i affirm , or deny any thing which he , hereafter , though with never so much confidence shall report i do , unless you first consult my own writings , and see it there : and i would also desire of him , that seeing he is so much given to mistake my meaning , he would never report my sence , but in mine own terms ; and that is but a fair request . in fine , i am not much afflicted that my adversary gave me this occasion of writing again on this subject . i know that truth , like silver , will appear the brighter for being burnished . the more he presses this controversy , the more the subject of it will come in discourse ; and discourse , in time , will ripen and mellow notions in the minds of men , which at first , seem hard and harsh . nor will his pious frauds , his rayling upon arguments instead of answering of them , his unsober reflecting on his adversary instead of arguing with him ; his base hints ; or his direct scurrillitics , which even now dis-serve his cause with wise and good-men , uphold it long with any . these are mean , unmanly , and unchristian methods , and ( let him note it ) never used but in extremity , and when a case is deplor'd ; which his being , i hold it time to end this trouble from sir , your faithfull friend and servant . r. b bowdon . july 4. 1684 books printed for , and sold by tho. simmons at the prince's arms in ludgate-street . the history of the old testament methodized , according to the order and series of time wherein the several things therein mentioned were transacted . in which the difficult phrases are paraphrased , the seeming contradictions reconciled , the rites and customs of the jews , opened and explained : to which is annexed , a short history of the jewish affairs , from the end of the old testament , to the birth of our saviour ; and a map also added of canaan and the adjacent countries , very useful for the understanding of the whole history , by s. cradock , b.d. fol. the lives of sundry eminent persons in this latter age , in two parts . first , of divines , ( viz. ) mr. hugh broughton : mr. r. boid : dr. twist : mr. tho. wilson : dr. sam. bolton , mr. richard vines , mr. richard blacherhy , mr. ralph robinson , mr. john janeway , mr. john machia , dr. sam. winter , mr. thomas tregas , mr. rich. mathew , mr. john allein , dr. staunton , mr. samuel fairclough , mr. thomas wadsworth , mr. o. stochton , mr. t. gouge . to which are added , some remarkable passages in the lives and deaths of divers eminent divines in the church of scotland : ( viz. ) mr. john scringer , mr. robert blair , mr , and. stewart , mr. john weleb , mr. hugh kennedy , mr. robert brute , mr. davidson , and mr. patrick simpson : together with an account of several providences strange and extraordinary . secondly , of nobility and gentry of both sexes , ( viz. ) mr. philip sidney , sir charles coot , mr. john lamot , sir nath. barnadiston , mr. john rowe , sir matthew hale , mrs. mary hunter , lady alice lucy , lady mary vere , mrs. kath. clark , countess of warwick , mrs. margaret baxter , lady armine , lady langham , and countess of suffolk . by s. clark sometime pastor of bennet finek , london : to which is added , the life of the author . fol. the new testament of our lord and saviour jesus christ , with annotations , containing first , an interpretation of all difficult phrases and words . secondly , parallel scriptures , both as to matter and words , to which is annexed the harmony of the gospels . by samuel clark , i. f. 4 to . church history of the government of bishops and their councils abreviated , including the chief part of the government of christian princes and popes , and a true account of the most troubling controversies and heresies till the reformation . by richard baxter , a hater of false history . in 4 to . a treatise of episcopacy , confuting by scriptur-reasons , and the churches testimony , that sort of diocesian churches , prelacy and government , which casteth out the primitive church species , episcopacy , ministry and discipline , and confound the christian world by corruption , usurpation , schism and persecution : meditated in the year 1640. when the &c. oath was imposed , written 1671. and lastly published 1680. by the importunity of our superiors , who demand the reasons of our non-conformity . by rich. baxter , in 4 to . forgetfulness of god the great plague of mans heart , and consideration of the principal means to cure it . by w. d. m.a. once fellow of king's colledge cambridge , in octavo . londinum triumphans : or , an historical account of the grand influence the actions of the city of london haue had upon the affairs of the nation , for many ages past , shewing the antiquity , honour , glory , and renown of this famous city , the grounds of the rights priviledges and franchises , the foundation of the charter , the improbability of its forfeiture or seisure , the power and strength of the citizens , and the several contests that have been betwixt the magistracy and commonalty , collected from the most authentick authors , and illustrated with variety of remarks , worthy of the perusal of every citizen . by w. gouge . gent. 8● . the samaritan shewing that many unnecessary impositions are not the oyle that must heal the church , together with the way or means to do it , by a country gent. who goes to common prayer and not to meetings in octavo . the plea for children of believing parents , for their interest in abraham's covenant , their right to church-man ship with their parents , and consequently their title to baptism . the cause of publishing this discourse after so many learned men have laboured in this province is declared in the preface to the reader by giles freeman in octavo . peaceable resolution of crioscience touching our present imposition , wherein loyalty and obedience are proposed and setled upon their true foundation in scripture reason , and the constitution of this kingdom against all resistance of the present power , and for compliance with the laws so far as may be in order to union with a draught in specimen of a bill for accomodation , in octavo . moral prognostications , ( 1 ) what shall befall the church on earth till their concord , by the restitution of their primitive purity , simplicity , charity . ( 2. ) how that restitution is like to be made ( if ever ) and what shall besall them henceforth unto the end , in the golden age of love , written by richard baxten , when by the king's commission , we in vain treated for concord , 1661. and now publisht in 1680. finis . philadelphia: or, xl. queries peaceably and inoffensively propounded for the discovery of truth in this question, or case of conscience; whether persons baptized (as themselves call baptism) after a profession of faith, may, or may not, lawfully, and with good conscience, hold communion with such churches, who judg themselves truly baptized, though in infancy, and before such a profession? together with some few brief touches about infant, and after-baptism. by j.g. a minister of the gospel of jesus christ. goodwin, john, 1594?-1665. this text is an enriched version of the tcp digital transcription a85408 of text r207109 in the english short title catalog (thomason e702_7). textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. the text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with morphadorner. the annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. this text has not been fully proofread approx. 81 kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from 17 1-bit group-iv tiff page images. earlyprint project evanston,il, notre dame, in, st. louis, mo 2017 a85408 wing g1189 thomason e702_7 estc r207109 99866180 99866180 118444 this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons 0 1.0 universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase 1, no. a85408) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set 118444) images scanned from microfilm: (thomason tracts ; 108:e702[7]) philadelphia: or, xl. queries peaceably and inoffensively propounded for the discovery of truth in this question, or case of conscience; whether persons baptized (as themselves call baptism) after a profession of faith, may, or may not, lawfully, and with good conscience, hold communion with such churches, who judg themselves truly baptized, though in infancy, and before such a profession? together with some few brief touches about infant, and after-baptism. by j.g. a minister of the gospel of jesus christ. goodwin, john, 1594?-1665. 32 p. printed by j.m. for henry cripps, and lodowick lloyd, and are to be sold at their shop in popes-head alley, london, : 1653. j.g. = john goodwin. annotation on thomason copy: "june. 22.". reproduction of the original in the british library. eng baptism -early works to 1800. infant baptism -early works to 1800. a85408 r207109 (thomason e702_7). civilwar no philadelphia: or, xl. queries peaceably and inoffensively propounded for the discovery of truth in this question, or case of conscience;: w goodwin, john 1653 14643 21 30 0 0 0 0 35 c the rate of 35 defects per 10,000 words puts this text in the c category of texts with between 10 and 35 defects per 10,000 words. 2007-09 tcp assigned for keying and markup 2007-09 apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images 2007-10 elspeth healey sampled and proofread 2007-10 elspeth healey text and markup reviewed and edited 2008-02 pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion philadelphia : or , xl . queries peaceably and inoffensively propounded for the discovery of truth in this question , or case of conscience ; whether persons baptized ( as themselves call baptism ) after a profession of faith , may , or may not , lawfully , and with a good conscience , hold communion with such churches , who judg themselves truly baptized , though in infancy , and before such a profession ? together with some few brief touches about infant , and after-baptism . by j. g. a minister of the gospel of jesus christ . i thank god that i baptized none of you , but crispus and gaius . — and i baptized also the boushold of stephanas : besides , i know not whether i baptized any other . for christ sent me not to baptize , but to preach the gospel . 1 cor. 1. 14 , 16 , 17. for ye are all the children of god by faith in christ jesus . gal. 4. 26. for in jesus christ , neither circumcision availeth any thing , nor uncircumcision , but faith which worketh by love . gal. 5. 6. circumcision is nothing , nor uncircumcision is nothing ; but the keeping of the commandments of god . 1 cor. 7. 19. deus nobis imperavit congregationem : sibi servavit separationem . august . in mat. 13. 47. infantibus minime negandus baptismus , quos deus adoptat , & filii sui sanguine abluit . calvin . harm. p. 253. london , printed by j. m. for henry cripps , and lodowick lloyd , and are to be sold at their shop in popes-head alley . 1653. queries about lawfulness of communion , with churches deemed unbaptized ; as also about infant and after-baptism . i. whether is there any precept , or example in the gosp●l , of any person , how duly soever baptized , who disclaimed christian communion , either in church fellowship , or in any the ordinances of the gospel , with those , whom he judged true beleevers , upon an account only of their not having been baptized , especially after such a manner , as he judged necessary for them to have been ? or in case there be neither precept , nor example found in the scriptures to warrant such a practise , upon what ground are the consciences of such men , who practise it , satisfied or emboldened , in their way ? or if it be replyed , that there were no beleevers in the apostles days , who were not baptized , and that truly , and consequently , that there was no occasion of scrupuling communion with any beleever in these days ; 1. how can this ever be proved , ( viz. that there were no beleevers unbaptized in the apostles days , ) the contrary being apparant ( as may be touched hereafter ? ) 2. be it granted , that there were no beleevers unbaptized , or unduly baptized , in the apostles days , upon what ground notwithstanding can the practise now queried , be justified , or maintained , unless the practisers certainly know , and can satisfie themselves , that in case there had been such beleevers in these times ( i mean , who had been un-baptized , or unduly baptized ) those duly baptized would have declined such communion with them , as that specified ; especially considering that positive actions ( such is a declining , or withdrawing from , communion with the saints in church-fellowship ) cannot be justified upon negative grounds , at least not further then in point of meer lawfulness , or indifferency , no nor thus far , in case of scandal ; which is the case of those , who withdraw from church-communion to the offence , both of that church from which they withdraw , and of many others ? ii. whether can it be proved from the scriptures , or by any argument , like , or meet , to satisfie the conscience of any tender and considering christian , that the apostles or other christians in their days , would have declined church-communion with , or denyed church-communion unto , such persons , whom they judged true beleevers in christ , and partakers of like precious faith with themselves , only because they had not been baptized or dipped in water , after a profession of their beleeving ; especially in case they had been baptized , and solemnly consecrated by washing with water , unto the service of jesus christ before , considering that the apostle paul expresly saith , that in jesus christ [ i. e. under the gospel , or profession of christ in the world ] neither circumcision availeth any thing , nor vncircumcision , but faith which worketh by love a : and again ; that circumcision is nothing , nor vncircumcision is nothing , but the keeping of the commandments of god b ? meaning , that under the gospel , and profession thereof , neither did the observation of any external rite or ceremony [ circumcision , by a synecdoche speciei , being put for all kind of external rites , or ceremonies ] avail or contribute any thing towards the commending of any person unto god ; nor yet the want of any such observation , discommend any man unto god , or prejudice his acceptation with him : but that which was all in all unto men , and which availed any thing , in , and under the gospel , that which being sound in men , rendered them accepted and approved of god , and the want of it , disapproved , was such a kind of faith [ not such , or such , a kind of ceremony , or such or such a kind of baptism ] which by the mediation or interveening of that heavenly affection of love , uttereth and expresseth it self in keeping the commandments of god , [ viz. so far as they are made known unto them , and as humane infirmity will well bear and admit . ] or is it to be beleeved , that either the apostles , or other christians taught by them , would have rejected those from their communion , who were weak in the faith , and were not convinced of every thing that was in any degree necessary for them to know , and to do , only for want of such an external observance , of the lawfulness whereof they were unconvinced , and which , had they submitted unto it , would have availed them little or nothing ? iii. whether can it be proved by any text , or passage of scripture , either directly , or by any tolerable consequence , that christian churches were ( in the apostles days ) constituted by baptism , or that none were reputed members of churches , or admitted into christian communion with those who were baptized , but only such who were baptized likewise ; considering that that text acts 2. 41. [ commonly , and only , as far as i know , pretended for proof of such a thing ] doth not so much as colour , much less cotton , with such a supposal , or conclusion ; the tenor of the place being only this , then they that gladly received his word , were baptized : and the same day there were added unto [ them ] about three thousand souls ? for , 1. it is not here said , that all they that gladly received the word , were baptized ; but indefinitely only , they that gladly received , &c. now indefinite expressions in scripture are not always equipollent to universals , but sometimes to partitives , or particulars . when the apostle , speaking of beleevers under the old testament , saith , that they stopped the mouths of lions , quenched the violence of fire , &c. [ hebr. 11. 33 , 34. ] he doth not mean , that they all did either of these ; nor indeed that many of them did either . see mat. 27. 34. compared with vers . 48. ( to omit an hundred instances more of like import . ) yea many times universal expressions themselves are to be understood with limitation and restraine . these things are sufficiently known to persons any thing conversant in the scriptures . 2. neither is it here said , nor is it a thing in it self much probable , that only they who were baptized , were added unto them , [ i. e. to the pre-ex●stent number of disciples , ] but only and simply that there were the number of three thousand added the same day . within which number it is the probable opinion of some , that the children , and families , of those , who are said to have gladly received the word , are comprehended ; it being no ways likely , scarce possible , that 3000 men should distinctly hear the voyce of a man speaking : especially unless we shall suppose , that these 3000 stood nearest unto him that spake , and with the best advantage to hear , there being many thousands more present ; which can hardly be the supposition of any considering man in the case in hand . nor , 3. is it said , or so much as intimated or hinted in the least , that any of the whole number of the three thousand who were added unto them , were added by means , or upon the account , of their being baptized , although this addition be not mentioned till after their baptizing . it is ten degrees more probable , that their beleeving , or discipleship , which according to the principles of those brethren themselves with whom we now argue , were precedent to their baptizing , and not their being baptized , were the reason and ground of luke's saying , they were added unto the church , or former number of disciples ; considering , 1. that the original , main and principal foundation of the holy brotherhood amongst the saints , and that which makes them fellow-members , or members one of another , is , not the ceremony of their external baptism , but their fellowship and communion in the divine nature , and inward relation unto the same christ by one and the same precious faith . 2. that it cannot be demonstratively proved from the scriptures , that those hundred and twenty disciples [ act. 1. 15. ] unto which it is here said that three thousand were added , were , or had been , all of them baptized , in as much as ( as will presently appear ) there were divers members of churches in the apostles days , who were unbaptized ; no , nor can it any whit more be proved from scripture , that the apostles themselves mentioned act. 1. 13. had been baptized , then that john the baptist was baptized . 3. ( and lastly , ) that had the church , or persons , unto whom these three thousand are said to have been added , been estimated by their having been baptized , ( which must be supposed , if those who are added to them , are said to have been added upon the account of their being baptized , ) their number must needs have far exceeded an hundred and twenty , considering the great numbers and vast multitudes of persons , that had been baptized by john , mat. 3. 5 , 6. compared with mark 1. 5. luk. 3. 7 , 21. as also by christ himself and his disciples , joh. 3. 22 26. yea had the church been estimated , or constituted , by baptism , the evangelist luke , intending ( questionless , act. 4. 4. ) to report the increase of the church and progress of the gospel , with as much advantage as truth would afford , had prevaricated with the cause , which he intended to promote , in reporting their number to have been about five thousand only ; when as , upon the said supposition , and the tenor of the late premisses , he might with as much truth have reported them about forty thousand , yea and many more . howbeit many of them which heard the word , beleeved : and the number of the men were about five thousand . in which passage , the increase of the church , or addition unto the former saints , is with much more pregnancy of intimation ascribed unto their beleeving , then in the other place it is unto their being baptized . therefore both men and women , who are indeed tender of conscience in things appertaining unto god , had need have a better foundation to bear them out in their practise of rending and tearing churches [ or , if this name will not pass , of rending and tearing holy societies and fellowships of saints ] then any thing that can be so much as tolerably inferred from the text now argued , act. 2. 41. iv. whether did not the church of christ at rome in the apostles days , and so also the churches in galatia , hold church-communion with some , who were not baptized , considering , 1. that the apostle to the former writeth thus : know ye not , that so many of us as were baptized into jesus christ , were baptized into his death ? rom. 6. 3. and to the latter ( after the same manner ) thus : for as many of you as have been baptized into christ . gal. 3. 27. 2. that this particle , {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , as many as ( used in both places ) is , in such constructions as these , always partitive , distinguishing or dividing the entire number of persons spoken of , some from others , by the character or property specified , or at least supposeth a possibility of such a distinction . {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , as many as touched [ the hem of his garment ] were made whole , ( mat. 14. 36. ) this clearly supposeth , either that there were some , or at least that there might be some , who did not thus touch . so again : they brought in all as many as they found , &c. mat. 22. 10. so , as many [ i. e. as many men and women ] as are of the works of the law , are under the curse . gal. 3. 10. see also mark 3. 10. & 6. 11 , 56. luk. 4 40. ioh. 1. 12. act. 3. 24 ( with others more of like tenor and import , almost without number . ) therefore is it not without controversie and dispute , that the apostle saying to the church at rome , and to those in galatia , as many of you as have been baptized , &c. supposeth , either that there actually were , or at least that ( for ought he knew to the contrary ) there might be , sundry of their members , who had not been baptized ? and if he had either known , or so much as by conjecture supposed , that all the members of these churches had without exception been baptized , is it credible that he would have expressed himself thus unto them ( respectively , ) as many of you as have been baptized , and not rather , you having all been baptized , or the like ? v. whether did not the church at corinth ( in the apostles days ) entertain members , and hold communion with those , who had not been baptized ; considering that he demandeth thus of this church : else what shall [ or , what will ] they do , which are baptized for the dead , if the dead rise not at all ? why are they then baptized for the dead c ? or doth not this imply , that there was a corrupt and superstitious practise on foot in this church , to baptize one or other of the surviving kindred , or friends , in the name of such persons ( respectively ) who dyed unbaptized , and that this church thought and supposed , that such baptism was available for good unto the deceased in such a case ; which practise and opinion of theirs the apostle here insisteth on as inconsistent with that most dangerous and pernicious error of denying the resurrection of the dead , which had now gotten head amongst them ? and if there were such a practise as this in this church , i mean to baptize some of the living members , in the name and stead of some that were dead , is it not a plain case that there were some of these members , who lived and dyed unbaptized ? vi . whether , when paul , soon after his conversion , assayed to joyn himself to the church and disciples at jerusalem ( act. 9. 26. ) did this church make any enquiry after his baptism , as whether he had been baptized , or no , in order to his reception amongst them ; or did they know that he had been baptized ? or did barnabas , in giving satisfaction to the apostles and church concerning his meetness to be admitted into communion with them , so much as mention his being baptized , but only declared unto them how he had seen the lord in the way , and that he had spoken to him , and how he had preached boldly at damascus in the name of jesus ? acts 9. 27. vii . whether , upon a supposal , that it cannot be proved from the scriptures , that any unbaptized , or unduly baptized person , was ever admitted into church-communion by christians in the apostles days , or that any duly baptized person held communion with a church , the greatest part of whose members he deemed either unbaptized , or unduly baptized , is such a defect of proof sufficient to justifie a withdrawing of communion by a person , who conceiveth himself duly baptized , from such a church , the generality of whose members he supposeth are either not baptized , or unduly baptized ; considering that very many things may be matter of duty , and necessary to be done , which are not warranted for so much as lawful , by any example in the scriptures of like action in all circumstances ? it is the duty of churches , and of every member respectively , to admit their women-members to the lords table ; yet cannot this practice be warranted by any example recorded in the scriptures . yea in case at the time of this sacramental administration in a church , all the men-members should occasionally be absent , except only the administrator , and ( it may be ) a deacon or two , and only the women-members present , there is little question to be made , but that the administration ought to proceed notwithstanding , and the elements be administred unto this female congregation , though there be no example of such an administration as this in the scriptures . there is no example in scripture of any person worshiping the holy ghost : yet it is a great duty lying upon christians to worship him . when david , and the men with him , entred into the house of god , and did eat the shew-bread a , he had no scripture-example to justifie his action ; no more had the disciples to justifie theirs , when they plucked the ears of corn as they passed through the fields on a sabbath day : yet were both these actions lawful , and ( to a degree ) necessary . the reading of the scriptures translated out of the original languages into english , welch , dutch , french , &c. is not only lawful , but necessary , in the christian churches in these nations ; yet is there no example extant in scripture of any such practice in the primitive times , no nor so much as of any translation of the scriptures at all . it were easie to add more instances of like consideration . viii . whether is an action or practice , suppose in matters relating to the service or worship of god , upon this account evicted to be unlawful , because it hath neither precept [ i mean , no particular or express precept , and wherein the action or practice it self , with all the circumstances under which it becomes lawful , is named , ] nor example , to warrant the lawfulness of it ? or hath the practice of admitting women to the lords table , any such , either precept , or example , to justifie it ? or in case a minister shall preach to a congregation consisting of young men only , and from rev. 22. 3 , or 4 ▪ &c. would such an act as this be unlawful ? or is there any such precept , as that mentioned , or example in scripture , for the warrant of it ? or when david , and those that were with him , went into the house of god , and , contrary to the letter of an institution , eat the shew-bread , had they either such a precept , as that mentioned , or any example , to bear them out in such a practise ? or doth not our saviour in the gospel justifie that action of theirs notwithstanding ? or if the case , or law of necessity , or of peril , either of health , or life , be pleadable for the justification thereof ; is not the same law altogether as , yea & much more , pleadable , on the behalf of such persons , who being of tender , weak , and sickly constitutions , dare not tempt god , or expose themselves to the imminent hazard of health or life , by being doused in their apparel over head and ears in the water ; especially considering that god hath testified from heaven his dis-approbation of the practice , by suffering some to be grievously afflicted in their bodies , and some also to miscarry in life it self , by means ( in all likelyhood ) of the temptation ? or hath not god sufficiently and plainly enough declared his mind and pleasure in all such cases as this , in saying , i will have mercy , and not sacrifice a ? or if it be pleaded , that all danger of miscarrying in either kind , may be prevented , by chusing a warm room , and warm water , for the transacting of the baptismal dipping , is it not queryable hereupon , whether this be not to alter and change , to new-mold , shape , and transform the ordinance of god , as men please , and this under a pretext of observing it ? or is there not as much difference between hot water , and cold , as is between a child , and a man ? ix . whether , when god hath by faith purified the hearts of a people walking in a christian brotherhood and fellowship together , hath he not sanctified them ? and in case any person shall now despise , or decline their fellowship , as unholy , doth he not sin against that heavenly admonition delivered by special revelation unto peter ; what god hath cleansed [ {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , i. e. sanctified , or purified ] call not thou [ or , make not thou ] common a ? or can a man ( lightly ) call , or make , that common , which god hath sanctified , in a more opprobrious and contumelious way , then by fleeing from it , as polluted or unholy ? x. whether doth , or needs , a man contract any guilt of sin before god , by walking in such a society of men , who being otherwise confessedly christian and holy , have only some practice amongst them in the judgment and conscience of this man not approvable , in case , 1. he shall at any time openly declare his dislike of this practice ; and , 2. be no ways constrained , or solicited to communicate in this practice ? or , when men may separate that which is precious from that which is vile , and enjoy it thus separated , and apart , without suffering any inconvenience by that which is vile , is it a point of wisdom in them to deprive themselves of the enjoyment of what is precious , because there is somewhat , which they suppose to be vile , near to it ? xi . whether may persons , who are weak in the faith , be rejected by a church from communion with them , in case they desire it , only because they question , or dissent from , the sence of the generality of this church , in some one point of doubtful disputation ? or is not the practice of a man , who pretends to be strong in the faith , in renouncing communion with a church ( or , which is the same , in rejecting a church from his communion ) which he judgeth weak in the faith , only because they more generally dissent from him in a matter of doubtful disputation , a practice much more unchristian and unwarrantable , then the former ? or is not the practice , especially the necessity , of dipping , after infant-ablution , or infant-baptism , a matter of doubtful disputation ; unless ( haply ) by matters of doubtful disputation , we mean , not whatsoever is questioned , opposed , or denyed by any man , or any sort of men , being asserted and held by others ; but only such things , which are controverted and disputed with good probability on either side , by men of gravity , worth , soberness of judgment , throughly versed and expert in the scriptures ? &c. and whether , in this sence or notion of matters of doubtful disputation , is the necessity of the said practice of after-baptism so much as matter of doubtful disputation , the generality of christians so qualified , as hath been expressed , unanimously agreeing in the non-necessity , yea and ( which is somewhat more ) in the irregularity of it ? xii . whether did the lord christ , pointing to any river , or water , say , vpon this water will i build my church ? or did he not , speaking either of himself , or of that great truth , viz. that he was the son of the living god , which peter had confessed , say , vpon this rock will i build my church a ? or is there the softest whisper , or gentlest breathing in the scripture , of any such notion , or opinion , as this , that a true church of christ cannot be constituted , or made , no not of the truest and soundest believers in the world , unless they have been baptized after their believing , how , or after what manner soever , they have been baptized before ? xiii . whether is an error , or mistake , about the adequate or appropriate subject of baptism , of any worse consequence , or greater danger , then an error or mistake about melchisedec's father , as viz. in case a man should suppose him to have been noah ( which he must be , in case melchisedec were the same person with sem ) when as he was some other man ? if so , how , or wherein doth the excess of the danger , or evil of the consequence appear ? if not , whether is it christian , or any ways becoming the spirit of the gospel , to abandon communion with such churches , which ( being interpreted ) is to proclaim them polluted , hated and abhorred by christ , only because a man supposeth them to lie under the guilt of such an error , or mistake ? xiv . whether may not the importune contest , or question , about the appropriate subject of baptism , as it is stated by the brethren of new baptism , in opposition to the judgment and practice ( almost ) of the whole christian world , justly be numbered amongst those questions , which the apostle calls foolish , and unlearned , and adviseth both timothy and titus to avoyd , as being questions which ingender strife a , and are unprofitable and vain b ; considering , 1. that the experience of many years in the reformed churches abroad , and of some years amongst our selves at home , hath abundantly taught and informed us , that the said question hath yielded little other fruit unto those that have set their hearts to it , yea and unto others also , but contention , strife , emulations , evil surmizings , distractions , confusions , alienations of mind and affections amongst christian brethren , evil speakings , vilifyings , revilings , needless and wastful expence of time , loss of many precious opportunities for matters of greatest consequence , unprofitable disturbings and turmoylings of weak consciences , shatterings , scatterings , rendings , and teerings of such churches , and christian societies , who , till this root of bitterness sprang up amongst them , walked in love , and with the light of gods countenance shining on them , holding the unity of the spirit in the band of peace , edifying one another in their most holy faith , &c. 2. that the said question , in the nature and direct tendency of it , leadeth unto very little that is considerable , or of much consequence for christians to know ; and that what is brought to light ( of moment and consequence ) by occasion of the ventilation of it , is nothing but what might arrive at the knowledg of christians , in a more peaceable , and less troublesom way : and , 3. ( and lastly ) that those who are most confident that they have found the treasure of truth , which the question we speak of , seeketh after , are no ways , as far as any ways appeareth , or can be discerned , spiritually enriched by it , but rather impoverished ( at least the generality of them ) losing by degrees , that christian sweetness , meekness , humility , love , patience , soberness of mind , fruitfulness of conversation , &c. which were observable in them before ; as if their new baptism had been into a new , or another jesus , altogether unlike unto him , whom paul preached ? xv . whether is any member of a christian church , or society , at any more liberty , or under any greater necessity , to excommunicate , cut off , or separate this church , or all the members of it , from his communion , only upon his private conceit or perswasion , suppose according to truth , that they walk not in all things according to gospel-rule , then this church is to excommunicate him , upon a true and certain perswasion , that he walketh not in every thing according to the rule of the gospel ? or if churches either be at liberty , or under an obligation by way of duty , to excommunicate every of their members ( respectively ) because they judg them not to walk in all things according to the gospel , are they not at liberty , or bound in duty and conscience , thus to cast out all their members one after another ; considering , that not in some things only , but even in many things ( as the apostle james speaketh ) we offend all ? or hath any single member of a church any more liberty , or authority , to adjudg and determine without the scriptures , upon what grounds or occasions , his departure from a church is justifiable , then a church hath to make laws and constitutions of her own for the ejecting of her members ? or is it anywhere a case adjudged in the scriptures , that if a church in any part of the world , suppose under the frozen zone , shall not practice dipping after sprinkling , or other washing , in the name of jesus christ , every member thereof stands bound in conscience , yea or is so much as at liberty , to reverse , or disoblige himself from , his solemn and sacred engagements to it ? xvi . whether did not paul and barnabas hold christian communion with those christian converts which they made at antioch , acts 13. 43 , 48 , 52. and with those also , which they made soon after in great numbers at iconium , acts 14. 1 , 4 ? or doth it any ways appear from the scripture , that these converts , during the continuance of paul and barnabas with them , yea or at any time after , were baptized ? if not , is it any ways necessary that we should believe , or ought it to be any article of our faith to believe , that they were baptized ? if it be not necessary , then we are at liberty to believe , that paul and barnabas did hold christian communion with unbaptized christians ; especially considering , that the tenor of the history diligently consulted , especially concerning those , who were converted to the faith at antioch , and the short abode of paul and barnabas with them after their conversion , together with the troublesom oppositions which the jews of the place made all the while against them , makes it probable in the highest , that they were not baptized , at least whilest these men continued with them ? xvii . whether , in case any member , one or more , of any christian church , or society , which he judgeth faithful in the main , and willing and ready to walk up to their light , shall verily think and be perswaded , that he hath discovered some defect , or error in this church , may such an one lawfully and with a good conscience give himself a discharge from all care & service otherwise due from him unto it , by renouncing the communion thereof upon such a pretence , or occasion ; especially before , or until , he hath with all long-suffering and meekness , and with the best of his understanding , endevored the information of this church in the truth , and the rectifying the judgments of the members thereof ; considering , that as in the natural body , so in the spiritual or church-body , the members ought to have the same care one for another , and if one member suffereth , all the members to suffer with it a , ( as the apostle speaketh , ) and consequently no one member , being healthful and sound , ought to desert its fellow-members being sickly and weak , especially whilest there is yet any hope of their cure and healing ? xviii . whether ought a company of true believers , concerning whose lawful church constitution there can no other thing with reason and truth be objected , to be vilified , or separated from , as a false church , or no church of christ at all , only because , either , 1. they do not practice contrary to their judgment and conscience , such things , one , or more , which some men conceive it meet they should practice ; or , 2. because , either god hath not enlightened them to see every thing , which some other men see ; or else because satan hath not blinded them , so as to make them ignorant of such truths , one , or more , whereof some others are ignorant , judging them to be errors ? xix . whether is it reasonable or christian , that a company of true believers , who have met together in the simplicity of their hearts in the fear of god , in the name of jesus christ , mutually engaging themselves , as in the presence of god , to walk together in all the ordinances of the gospel , as far as they shall from time to time be revealed unto them , and walking accordingly , should be infamously stigmatized as no church , no true church of christ , and consequently be esteemed but as a rabble rout of the world only pretending churchship , and this by some one , or a few persons , only because they cannot see with their eyes , or practice that as necessary , the necessity whereof , after much and earnest prayer unto god , after much enquiry and search , and this with all diligence and impartialness , in order to their conviction and satisfaction , doth no ways to them appear ? xx . whether is it christian , or meet , for any one person , man , or woman , to bid defiance unto an whole church or fellowship of saints being many , and who are otherwise sober , grave , and conscientiously faithful in all their walking , onely because they cannot with a good conscience say amen to every notion and conceit , which these persons themselves judg worthy of reverence and honour , and particularly , because they cannot , against the sence , judgment and practise , as well of all christian antiquity , as of all the reformed churches ( very few , if any , excepted ) in the christian world , thus spiritually court their private apprehensions about the time and manner of an external administration ; especially considering , that they neither have , nor can , either shew precept , example , or any competent ground otherwise , from the scriptures , to commend these their apprehensions unto the conscience of any man ? or is there any precept , which injoyns baptizing , or dipping , in the name of christ , after a baptizing in infancy into this name ? or is there any example in scripture of any baptized after profession of faith , who had been baptized , or who judged themselves , and were generally so judged by others , to have been baptized , before ? if neither , is it not a clear case , that here is neither precept , nor example in scripture , which reacheth home to the case , or which warranteth the practice , of the children of after-baptism amongst us ? and as for any competent ground otherwise to justifie the practice , hath such a thing ever seen the light of the sun hitherto ? xxi whether do not they , who magnifie the ceremony or external rite of baptism to such an height , as to estimate christianity by it , or to judg them no true or sound christians , who are without it , stumble at the same stone of danger and peril of soul , at which the jews stumbled , when they practiced and urged circumcision as necessary for justification ; to whom , upon this account , paul testified ; behold , i paul say unto you , that if ye be circumcised , [ meaning , with an opinion of a necessity of your being circumcised for your justification before god , ] christ shall profit you nothing a ? considering , 1. that circumcision was an ordinance of god , yea as great and solemn an ordinance , as baptism ; and 2. that when paul threatened those who so magnified it ( as was said ) with lofing their part and portion in christ , it was as lawful , though ( haply ) not so necessary ( and yet in some cases it was necessary too ) as baptism it self ; yea and the apostle himself administred it , as well as he did baptism , yea and pronounced it profitable , ( rightly understood and practiced ? ) rom. 3. 1. 2. or might not the same threatening ( i mean , of losing the great blessing of justification and salvation by christ ) have been with altogether as much truth and necessity , administred upon a like occasion and account , unto persons so opinionated of circumcision , as the galathians were , even when , and whilst , the use and practice of it was every whit as necessary ( or rather more necessary ) as the use of baptism now is ? xxii . whether is there any precept , or example in the scriptures , of any person baptized after many years profession of the gospel , or after any considerable measure of assurance of the pardon of sin obtained , or at any other time , save at , or about , their first entrance upon a profession of christ ? or is there any competent ground , either in reason , or religion , why either such a thing should have been practised by christians in the apostles days , or why it ought to be practised by any in these days ; considering , 1. that it is uncomely , and contrary to the law , which god hath established , both in nature , and in grace , to return or fall back from perfection to imperfection , from that which is more spiritual , to that which is more carnal ; and , 2. that types and figures , which are not rememorative ( as the passover was , and the lords table now is ) but either only significative , or obsignative ( as baptism is ) should be used , after the substance of the things typified and figured by them , have been of a long time exhibited unto , received , and enjoyed by those , who use them ; 3. that a profession of the name and faith of christ by an holy and blameless conversation for many years together in the world , by a long continued course of mortification , self-denyal , fruitfulness in well doing , &c. is the truth and substance , the heart , life , and soul of that profession , which is made by being externally baptized ; 4. ( and lastly ) that that which is a duty at one time , in respect of such and such circumstances , may cease to be , or may not be , a duty at another time , when circumstances are changed , many instances whereof might be readily given ? xxiii . whether ought not the law of edification [ 1 cor. 14. 26. ] to over-rule all laws and precepts concerning spiritual and church-administrations , as the law of salus populi ought to umpire and over-rule all politique laws and constitutions , in their respective executions ? if so , ought not the administration of baptism to be rather appropriated unto infants , then unto others , considering , 1. that god himself adjudged the administration of the ordinance of circumcision ( an ordinance the same with baptism , though not in the shape and form of the letter , yet in strength and substance of the spirit , as evidently appeareth from rom. 4. 11. well understood , and diligently compared with mark 1. 4. luk. 3. 3 , &c. ) unto infants , to be most edifying in the church of the jews ; otherwise it must be said that he ordered the administration of it to the spiritual detriment and loss of those , to whom he gave it ; and , 2. that there can no reason , nor colour of reason be given , why , or how , the administration of baptism unto infants in christian churches , should not as well be more edifying unto these , then an after-administration of it would be , as the like administration of circumcision was unto the jews ; 3. ( and lastly ) that whatsoever the wisdom of men may pretend and plead colourably and plausibly to the contrary , ought to give place to the determination and resolution of god himself ? be silent , o all flesh , before the lord , zech. 2. 13. the lord is in his holy temple ; let all the earth keep silence before him , habak. 2. 20. although it be demonstrable enough , even by clear grounds and principles in reason , that to baptize in infancy , must needs be more edifying to the church , then to transfer the administration to maturity of years . xxiv . whether is not the baptizing of children , by the apostles and other baptists appointed by them in their days , sufficiently signified and implyed in those passages ( especially in conjunction with the known law and custom of circumcising children amongst the jews ) where they are recorded to have baptized housholds , or families , without exception of any person in any one of them ? as act. 16. 33. 1 cor. 1. 16. act. 16. 15. &c. or can there any arguments or conjectures be levyed from the scriptures to prove the contrary , which will balance or hold weight against these ; considering , 1. that it is at no hand probable , that god , who had made a law against him , that should open or dig a pit in his field , and not cover it d , would , not only have left the precept and perpetual example of circumcising infants by the jews , as a pit uncovered for believers , both jews and gentiles under the gospel , to fall into , by baptizing their children , without giving the least notice of the alteration of his mind in this behalf , but also have digged this pit yet broader , deeper , and wider , by causing the baptizing of several families to be recorded in the new testament , without the least mention or intimation of the passing by children in the administration ; 2. that that which is commonly replyed to disable these passages as to the proof of infant-baptism , is extreamly weak , and no ways satisfactory ; viz. that it is elsewhere said of whole housholds and families that they believed , which ( say the replyers ) doth not imply , that children are here included , or that they believed , this ( i say ) is unsatisfactory ; in as much as , 1. children may in a sence ( and this very frequent in the scriptures ) be said to believe , i. e. to be in the state and condition of believers , in respect of the love and favor of god , in title to the kingdom of heaven , &c. yea and are by christ himself ( in these respects ) expresly said to believe , mat. 18. 6. and , 2. were it granted , that children are in no sence capable of believing , and in this respect cannot be included , when it is said of whole houses , that they believed ; yet are they as capable of being baptized , or ( as our brethren will needs have it ) of being dipped ( yea in some respect more capable hereof ) as men ; and consequently can upon no tolerable account be thought to be excluded , when it is said of whole houses or families that they were dipped ; as ( for instance ) because , when johns disciples said , and all men come unto him , [ joh. 3. 26. ] children must needs be excluded , and not contained in the word , {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , all men , in as much as they were in no capacity of coming ; it doth not follow from hence , that therefore when the apostle saith , that christ by the grace of god tasted death for all men , [ heb. 2. 9. ] and so again , that it is appointed for men ( meaning , all men ) once to dye , [ heb. 9. 27. ] children must be here excluded also , and not be comprehended in the general term , all men ; in as much as they are as well capable as men , of such a grace , as christs dying for them imports , and so of dying themselves , though they are not capable of coming unto any man to be baptized : 3. considering , that men ought not to contend with god , or to reject any part of his counsel or will , because it is only somewhat sparingly , and with some scantness of evidence , discovered in his word , but to rest satisfied with that measure or degree of revelation of things , which he judgeth meet to vouchsafe unto them , until further light shall shine : 4. that they who are dissatisfied with that discovery , which learned paedobaptists make unto them from the scriptures , of the will and mind of god for the baptizing of infants , do readily embrace and entertain many other notions and opinions upon far weaker , and less lightsom grounds of conviction , as viz. the common doctrines or tenents concerning original sin , admission of women to the lords table , the observation of the sabbath on the first day of the week ( yea some of them on the last day , ) the reception of the soul into heaven , and happiness , immediately upon death , ( with many other things , which we shall not now mention , ) not that i mention these with dislike of the common opinion about them all , but only to shew , that as the generality of the jews rejected the true messiah notwithstanding all the true and real miracles which he wrought amongst them , and yet entertained false messiahs one after another , with their counterfeit and lying miracles ; so do the generality of anti-paedobaptists reject infant-baptism , notwithstanding the many real and substantial proofs , by which it is commended and confirmed unto them , in the mean time bowing down their judgments and consciences to such doctrines , which have little but hay and stubble to support them . 5. ( and lastly ) that god doth expect , that men should dig for the treasure of truth , and of his counsel , even where it lies much deeper under-ground , then infant-baptism doth in several of those texts of scripture , which have been argued by learned men of that judgment , in proof thereof ; yea and hath reproved men for their unmanlike oscitancy , and neglect in this behalf ? peruse and consider diligently these texts and passages at your leasure ( because it would be too long to argue them , ) mat. 12 3 , 4 , 5 , 7. mat. 23. 16 , 17 , 18 , 19 , &c. mat. 22. 29 , 31 , 32 , &c. luk 24. 25 , 26. acts 7. 25 , 26. ( to omit others . ) xxv . whether is the practise of demanding , or submitting unto , a baptismal dipping , after a solemn dedication unto the service of jesus christ by a baptismal sprinkling , or ablution , anywhere countenanced in the scriptures , or enjoyned , either by particularity , or expressness of precept or example ? if not , is not the practise of it traditional , and the product of humane discourse , as well , and as much , as the baptizing of infants ? and do not they who practise it , presume every whit as much , or rather far more , upon their own judgments and understandings , in making infant-baptism to be a meer nullity or nothing , the scripture no where giving any such sentence , nor any syllable , letter , or tittle of any such sentence , against it , as they who make it an ordinance of god , or rather ( to speak more properly ) a meet and necessary administration of an ordinance of god ? considering , 1. that baptism it self , i. e. the external act of baptism , rightly so called , ( whether it be dipping , washing , or sprinkling , is not material to the case now in hand , infants being alike capable of them all ) is by expressness of scripture , an ordinance , or appointment of god ; and 2. that infants ( at least , of beleevers ) not onely , are no where excluded by god from part and fellowship in the administration , but are in several places and passages more then overtured as the most proper and meet subjects of it ? xxvi . whether , was not a dying the death of the uncircumcised c under the law , and so a being punished with the uncircumcised d , matter of threatning , and an intimation of anger and displeasure in god ; importing , that the lives of uncircumcised persons in the world , were nothing so precious in his sighte , nor so tenderly watched over , nor so carefully protected and preserved by him , as the lives of those who were circumcised ? yea did not the threatning of the uncircumcised man-child , that his soul should be cut off from his people , because he had broken gods covenant , ( gen. 17. 4. ) plainly signifie , that children uncircumcised , were much more obnoxious unto the stroke of death from the hand of god , then they would have been , or need to have been , if circumcised ? if then it be supposed , that baptism is altogether as necessary , or of as high esteem with god , under the gospel , as circumcision was under the law , can it reasonably be judged , or thought , that he is as tender and providentially watchful , over the lives of children or others , unbaptized , as he is over the lives of those who are baptized ? and if so , do not they who neglect or refuse , the baptizing of their children , reject the counsel of god against their lives and preservations , depriving them of that interest in the speciall providence of god for their peace and safety , which they might , and ought to , intitle them unto by baptizing them ? and when children unbaptized are taken away by any sudden or strange hand of death , have not the parents just cause to question , whether they were not accessary to their death , by leaving them amongst the unbaptized ones of the world ? xxvii . whether were not the children of israel , notwithstanding the express and strict institution and command of god for the circumcising of the males amongst them on the eight day , blameless under their non-circumcision for forty yeers together , upon the account of that bodily inconvenience and danger , whereunto circumcision , during their journying and travel through the wilderness , would in the eye of reason have exposed them ? or had they not sinned , by tempting the providence of god , if under a pretence , or plea , of the commandment of god for their circumciseing , they had caused either themselves , or their children , to be circumcised , during such their travel , how long soever it had continued ? if so , do not they sin by tempting the providence of god who are authors , either to themselves or others , of being dipped over head and eares in water , where , and when , and whilst , such dipping cannot , both according to the principles of reason , the natural course and operation of second causes , yea , and frequent experience it self , but endanger either their healths , or lives , or both ; yea though this be upon a pretext , or plea , that such dipping is the institution , or command of god ? xxviii . whether doth the requiring of faith , or a profession of faith to be made by men and women in order to their being baptized , by any better consequence prove , that infants without such faith , or profession of faith , ought not to be baptized , then pauls injunction , which he commended to the thessalonians , viz. that if any would not work , neither should he eat a , proveth , that neither ought children to eat , unless they work too , as well as men or women , who are healthfull and strong , and so capable of working ? or then this prohibition of god of old concerning the eating of the paschal lamb , no uncircumcised person shall eat thereof b , proveth , that his intent was , that no person of woman kind , whether yong , or old , though daughters of abraham , and otherwise sanctified , should eat thereof ? xxix . whether , if dipping , or a disposing , or conveying of the whole body under water , be of the essence and necessity of baptism , are not they rather se-baptists , or self-baptisers , then baptised ( according to the order of christ ) by others , who themselves convey or dip under water their whole bodies , leaving onely their heads above the water to be bowed down , forced , or thrust under water , by the baptizer ? or is there either vola or vestigium , little or much of such a practise as this to be found in the scriptures , where they speak of baptism ? or can he in any tolerable sence or construction be said to be the architect , or builder of a turret , or steeple , who onely setteth the weather-cock on the top of it , and not rather he , who buildeth the rest of the body and fabrick hereof ? xxx . whether , is there any particular or express institution of baptism to be found in the scriptures ; i mean , any such institution , as there is of circumcision , and the passover in the old testament , or of the lords supper in the new ; or which prescribeth and determineth all circumstances essentiall unto baptism , as all the other do prescribe and determine all circumstances essentially requisite to their administrations respectively ? if not , do not they {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , make themselves wise above that which is written , & ( constructively ) obtrude upon the consciences of men an institution of their own , in the name of the ordinance and institution of god , who undertake to prescribe and determine , either particularity of subject , or manner of administration , in baptism ? xxxi . whether did not they amongst us , ( or at least the generality , and far greater part of them ) who have accepted and entred into the way of new-baptism , and at present walk in it , receive that precious faith from god , together with all those graces or fruits of the spirit , whereby they are , whatsoever they are in christ , and towards god ; did they not ( i say ) receive all this blessedness from god , under the dispensation of their infant-baptism ? or is there one of a thousand of those ingaged in this new way , who have added so much as the breadth of the least hair of their heads unto their former growth and stature in christ , i do not say , by vertue or means of this their new ingagement , but since , or after it ? or is there not a visible and manifest change for the worse in very many of them , and this ( in all probability ) occasioned by an overweening conceit , that by means of their new baptizing , they are more excellent then their neighbours , and too holy and near unto god to suffer themselves to be numbred amongst the members of other churches ? or do such things as these any way favour or strengthen the claim , which their way of baptizing makes of being a divine ordinance , yea the onely true baptism of god ? xxxii . whether , amongst men and women , whose consciences have at any time been surprized with a religious conceit of a necessity of new baptism , and have accordingly submitted to it , have not the most christianly-meek and humble on the one hand , and the most judicious and learned on the other hand , upon a little experience of this way , grown cool , and very indifferent in their thoughts about it ? yea and many of them repented of their surprizal and weakness in this kind , as johannes o●colampadius , johannes denkius , johannes gaster , men of great learning , worth , and humility , ( with several others ) about luthers dayes ; yea and some of like character , of late amongst our selves , who might be named , if it were necessary or meet ? xxxiii . whether , because baptism is termed the baptism of repentance {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} {non-roman} , i. e. for , or towards , the remission of sins , ( mar , 1. 4. ) doth it a whit more follow that children ought not to be baptized , either because they cannot repent , or because they have no sins to be remitted unto them , then it doth , that children ought not to have been circumcised ; considering that circumcision , the nature of it , and counsell of god in it , considered , may as truly be called , the circumcision of repentance , for the remission of sins , as baptism , the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins ; yea , the apostle paul himself giveth a definition of circumcision , for substance and import of matter , the same with that of baptism , when he calleth it , the seal of the righteousness of faith , ( rom. 4. 11. ) and however , children are altogether as uncapable of faith , as they are of repentance ; and have no more need of the righteousness of faith , then they have of remission of sins , these being but one and the same thing ? xxxiv . whether , when the apostle peter speaketh thus to his new converts , acts 2. 38 , 39. repent , and be baptized every one of you in the name of jesus christ for the remission of sins , and ye shall receive the gift of the holy ghost : for the promise is to you , and to your children , &c. doth he so much enjoyn or exhort them to repent in order to their being baptized , as encourage them both unto the one duty , and the other , upon the account of the promise relating both to them , and their children , and the certainty of its being fulfilled and made good unto them both , upon their repentance , and submission unto baptism , respectively ? and if their title unto , and interest in , the promise , be a ground or motive unto them [ the parents ] to be baptized ; is not the like title and interest , in the children , a ground and motive also why they should be baptized ? xxxv . whether doth god smell the assemblies [ or , in the assemblies ] of those , who judg themselves the onely baptized persons under heaven , with any such pleasure or delight , as he smelleth many the assemblies of those , who are called unbaptized , by the other ? or are the church-meetings of the former filled with the glory and presence of god at any such rate , or to any such degree , as many the holy assemblies of the latter are ? or are there any such manifestations of the spirit , either in gifts , or in graces , in the tabernacles of the baptized , as there are amongst those , who bear the reproach of vnbaptized ? or are the powers of the world to come any wayes so busie , active and stirring in the churches , which call themselves baptized , as they are in many the congregations , which are cast out to the gentiles , as unclean and un-baptized ? or is not that good word of god , ( the scriptures , ) as a sealed book in many the assemblies of the former , whereas even the deep things of god contained in it , are by the holy ghost revealed in many churches of the latter ? or are such differences as these , of no authority , interest , or import , to umpire or decide the controversie depending between the two baptisms ? xxxvi . whether are not children oft-times in scripture comprehended under , or with , their parents , men and women , &c. where they are not expresly mentioned , or named ; and particularly jos. 25. 26. 1 cor. 10. 1 , 2 * even as subjects are under the names of their kings , and families and descents , under the names of their heads ? &c. yea , are not both women and children to be understood , where men only are named ? ( see mark 6. 44. joh. 6. 10. compared with mat. 14. 21. ) if so , doth not this argument or plea against infant-baptism , halt right-down ; in the scriptures we find no mention of the baptizing of children , either by christ , or his apostles , or any others : therefore no children were baptized by them ? indeed if we could here find no mention of the baptizing either men , or women , then the non-finding any mention neither of children baptized , were an argument of some authority and credit to prove , that there was none of this capacity , or age , baptized . xxxvii . whether , in case it could be proved ( which yet hath not been proved , nor , i am full of belief , ever will be , the proofs lying much more strong and pregnant for it , then against it ) that there were no children baptized during the apostles days , doth it by any whit better consequence follow from hence , that therefore children ought not now to be ( or might not then , as to point of simple lawfulness , have been ) baptized , then from the non-circumcising of the jewish children for forty years together ( jos. 5. 5. ) viz , during the whole time of their journeying through the wilderness , it follows , that neither ought they to have been circumcised afterwards , especially considering , 1. that there may be many more , and more weighty , reasons ( though possibly unknown unto us ) why neither christ , nor his apostles , should baptize children in their days , though the lawfulness , yea and necessity of their baptizing , at other times , and in some cases , be supposed , then there was why the israelites should omit the circumcising of their children for those forty years together , which were specified ; and , 2. that the apostle paul saith , that he was not sent to baptize , but to preach the gospel ; [ meaning , that baptizing , whether personally , or by commissioning or delegating others hereunto , was not only not the principal , but not any considerable end of his sending , but the publishing and preaching of the gospel , ] for if he was not sent to baptize [ meaning , neither one age , nor one sex , or other , ] neither could he be sent to baptize children ; and if he was not sent to baptize , either one , or other , [ in the sence declared , ] neither was the lord christ himself , nor the rest of the apostles sent about this work ( in such a sence , ) what marvel then is it , that persons sent about matters incomparably greater and more weighty , should not be so throughly intent upon things of a secondary and lighter consequence , as to prosecute them to the uttermost of what they lawfully might , yea and in case of a lighter burthen upon their shoulder in those more important affairs , had been bound to do ? or are there not many cases , wherein a man may break a law , [ i. e. a standing law , or a law provided for ordinary cases ] and yet be blameless ? yea and some cases , wherein he may do it with commendation ? see mat. 12. 3 , 4 , 5. 2 cor. 11. 17 , 18 , 21. 1 joh. 3. 16. xxxviii . whether is not that principle , or humor , in the children of new baptism , of making such sacred treasure hereof as generally they do , estimating christianity it self , and acceptance with god , by it , counting all persons unclean and unholy , and not meet for church-communion , who submit not unto it &c. thus making gods nothing , their all things ; is not this humor ( i say ) the express character of such persons in all ages , who have unduly , and without cause , broken the bands of unity , love , and peace , wherein they had been sometimes bound up in a sweet bundle of christianity with other churches , to walk in some crooked and by-way of particular choyce by themselves , to the offence , grief , and reproach of those churches , from which , upon such an account , they rent themselves ? or did not eunomius the heretique , who maintained this doctrine ( by way of dissent from the churches of christ ) that the son of god is altogether unlike the father , and the holy ghost unlike the son , notwithstanding the groundlessness and erroneousness of it , yet attribute this high and sacred priviledg unto it , that whosoever believed it could not possibly perish , how wickedly soever he lived a ? or did not the donatists ascribe all christian worth and excellency to their sect and opinions , denying that there was any true church of christ in all the world , but only amongst them , and despising all other christians , but themselves , and yet giving entertainment to most vile and wicked men in their communion b , as if the giving of the right hand of fellowship unto them in their way , rendered men religious and holy , in the midst of the practice of all wickedness ? or did not theophanes attribute so much to the use of images in religious worship , that he censured constantine the emperor ( by-named , copronymus ) as an apostate from god , for opposing images , and idol-worship c ? or did not some jewish teachers labor to possess men with such an high opinion of their tradition and practice of washing hands before meat , as that they ought to look upon him , who should neglect or not observe it , as one that lieth with an harlot d ? or did not the author and abettors of that hideous doctrine , that god seeth no sin in persons justified , pronounce all those traytors to the blood of christ , that held the contrary e ? or did not the monks , who ( generally ) were the compilers of the histories of this nation in former times , place so much of the very essence ( as it were ) of religion , in reverencing bishops and monks of these times , that ( as daniel , a late english historian observeth ) they personated all their princes , either religious , or irreligious , as they humored , or offended , the bishops rochet , and the monks belly f ? or did not theodore the abbot , give this advice to a monk , who ( as himself informed the said abbot ) was threatened by the devil , that he would never cease vexing and molesting him by temptations unto fornication , until he left worshiping the image of the blessed virgin ; did not ( i say ) this abbot give this advice to the monk in his case , that it were better that he frequented all the stews in the city , then not to worship christ and his mother in an image g ? or do not all these instances ( with many more that might be added unto them , of like consideration ) plainly shew and prove , that to conceit and speak glorious things , of any private opinion , or by-practice , is an argument of very great probability ( at least ) that this , both opinion , and practice , are mens own , or from themselves , and not from god , or agreeable unto his word ? or are there not several grounds , and these near at hand , very material and weighty , to strengthen this conjecture ? yea and when the apostle peter saith , that those that are unlearned and unstable , pervert , or wrest , the scriptures , to their own destruction , doth not this great danger or misery arise from hence , that they who do wrest the scriptures , are inordinately conceited of , and confidently rest and build upon , such notions , sences , and opinions , which are engendered and begotten in their minds or consciences , by this scripture-wresting ? xxxix . whether , is not the testimony of that worthy , zealous , and learned martyr mr john philpot ( recorded in a letter written by him to a freind of his , a prisoner in newgate at the same time ) worthy credit and beliefe , wherein he affirms , that auxentius , an arrian heretique , ( with his adherents ) was one of the first that denyed the baptism of children , and next after him , pelagius the heretique ? or can augustin be suspected , at least by those who have any competent knowledg of his unparallel'd candor and ingenuity , to speake any thing but the truth , when he saith that the baptizing of infants was a custom of the christian church in his days , salubriter firmata , wholsomely ratified and confirmed a : in another place , that the universal church of christ always held , or retained the custom of baptizing children even from the apostles , and that it was not instituted by any council ; and that no christian would say that children were impertinently , or in vain baptized b ( with much more to like purpose . ) or is not the testimony of ierome worthy to be received , who affirmeth , that he ( with the orthodox christians in his days ) held one baptism , which they affirmed ought to be administred in the same sacramental words unto infants , and those of riper years . c xl . whether can it proved from the scriptures , or by any argument whatsoever , that either faith , or a profession , of faith , is either the only , or the best ground , either divisim or conjunctim , whereon to build a baptismal administration ? or whether did not the apostles and those who baptized by their direction and order in their days , insist upon believing , and profession of believing , with men and women , who were willing , or desirous , to be baptized , onely for want of better , and of better assured grounds , whereon to proceed to the baptizing of such persons ? or did they insist upon either of these qualifications , in reference to the said administration , simply and meerly , as , or because , they were such , or in respect of their positive and absolute nature , and not rather , in respect of their relative natures , or properties , viz. as they were significative , or declarative unto them [ the baptizers ] and unto others , of the happy estate of those in whome they were found , as being persons in grace and favour with god ? otherwise , how could the lord christ himself , having no such faith , as that which the apostles and their baptists required ( together with the profession of it ) in those , whom they baptized , be a meet or duly qualified subject of this administration ? or will any man presume to say , that he was baptized , either contrary unto , or besides , the rule , or mind of god , touching persons meet to be baptized , especially when as himself renders this account why he submitted himself unto , and desired , biptism , viz. that it became him to fulfil all righteovsnes a ? and besides , is it not altogether irrational to imagine or think , that faith should be required in order unto baptism , simply for faiths sake ? or profession of faith , meerly for this professions sake ? or that god , or christ , should enjoyn a requirement of them upon such a slender account as this ? or that they would ever have been nominated by them for qualifications unto baptism in men and women , unless they had been so significative or declarative , as hath been said , i mean , of the gracious acceptance of such persons , in whom they are , with god ? yea or unless they had been declarative in this kind , upon the best terms , whereof persons newly converted from ways of sin unto god , are capable , there being no other way , or means , more effectual or proper for such persons to make known their standing , or being , in the favor of god , unto others , then by a profession of their believing in jesus christ ; how ever it be most true , that even such declarations as these , many times deceive those , who accept of them , and trust to them , though without sin in those , who are so deceived ? now then , if faith , and profession of faith , qualifie for baptism , meerly in respect of their relation , and as they report ( with such credit as appertains to them , and is meet to be given them by men ) the persons in whom they are , and from whom they proceed , to be in an estate of grace and favor with god , is it not as evident as the sun at noon day , that all persons of mankind , who are , or may be known by more assured testimonies and declarations , then any mans own profession of his own faith amounts unto , to be in the same , or like grace and favor with god , to be every whit as regularly , and as compleatly qualified for baptism , as the greatest and loudest professors of their faith under heaven ? if so , are not infants and children before the commission of actual sin , to whom god himself hath given a loud and express testimony from heaven , that they are in grace and favor with him , and that to them , and such as they are , belongeth the kingdom of heaven , &c. are they not ( i say ) upon this account fully declared to be , not only or simply , regular and meet subjects of baptism , but subjects in this kind of the highest , and most unquestionable qualifications ? for by one spirit [ not by one , or the same , water , or dipping ] we are all baptized into one body . 1 cor. 12. 13. what therefore god hath joyned together , let no man put asunder . matt. 19. 6. baptismus sine impietatis scelere contēmni nequit : & gravissimam reprehensionem coràm deo & hominibus merentur , qui tantum beneficium differunt , vel sibi , vel suis liberis accipere . b●za opusc. p. 334. tingimus pueros , tingimus provectioris aetatis : — nullam aetatem praecepit baptismo christus , sed neque ullam vetuit , ecclesiae norlingensis pastores . scultet . annal. anno 1525. finis . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a85408e-340 a gal ▪ 5. 6. b 1 cor. 7. 19. c 1 cor. 5. 29. v● . cameron . myroth . p. 229. & ambross●m in locum . i know the place is much vexed with interpreters and interpretations , but certain i am that the sence here supposed and argued upon , is the m●st grammatical , and best comporting with the propriety of he words and phrase● . a 1 sam. 21. 6 a matt. 12. 7 a acts 10. 15 a matt. 16. 18 a 2 tim. 2. 23 b tit. 3. 9. a 1 cor. 12. 25 a gal. 5. 2. u●de multi post baptismum proficientes , & maxime qui infantes vel pueri baptizati sunt , &c. aug. de baptismo contra donatistas lib. 4. c. 14. d exod. 21. 33 34 similia similium occupait nomina . hur . grot. in act. 13 33. multa offi●mantur simpliciter & formaliter , quae per equivalentiam seu comparationem tantum sunt intelligenda : vid. ●ai , 66. 3. 1 tim. 5. 8 matt. 19. 12 rom. 11 , 15 , &c. c ezek. 28. 10. 31 , 18. 32. 19. 21. d jer. 9. 25. ezek. 32 19. ●1 sam. 17. 26 , 36. a 2 thes. 3. 10. b exod. 12. 48. vide scultet . annal. anno 1521 , & 1525 , &c. * see also mat : 4 : 4 : & 12 : 12 : ( besides many others . ) a eunomius — defendit hanc haeresin , dissimilem per omnia pa●r● asse●ens filium , & filio spiritum sanctum . fertur etiam usque adeo fuisse bonis moribus inimicus , ut asseveraret , quod nihil cuique obesset quorumlibet perpetratio ac perseverantia peccator rum , si hujus , quae ab il o docebatur , fidei particeps effet . aug. de haeres . c. 54 b nam illi [ donatistae ] dicebant universum orbem christianum ecclesiam non habere — deinde , qui prae le omnes alios christianos condemnabant , severitatem censurae in suos relaxaverant , & in suis coetibus homines impurissimos , ut optato● , gildoniano● , primianosque patiebantur . p. mar●y● , loc. class. 4. c. 5. sect. 15. c theophanes miscel. . l. 21. c. ult , & joseph mede , apostacy of latter times . p. 131 d ainsworth in levit. 15. 12 e p. gunter , sermon of justification , printed anno 1615. preface to the reader , p. 3. f smectymnuus vindicat. p 8. g mede , apostacy of latter times , p. 140 a de peccatonum meritis &c. lib. 3. c. 13. b quod traditum cenet universitas ecclesi●… . cum parvuli infantes baptizantur , nullus christianorum dixerit eos inaniter baptizari . et si quisquam in hac re authoritatem divinam quaerat , quanquam quod universa tenet ecclesia , nec conciliis institutum , sed semper retentum est , non nisi authoritate apostolica traditum rectissime creditur , tamen veraciter continere possumus quid valeat in parvulis baptismi sacramentum ex circumcisione carnis , quam prior populus accepit , &c. aug. de baptismo contra donat. l. 4. c. 23. c baptisma unum tenemus , quod iisdem sacramenti verbis in insantibus , quibus etiam in majoribus , asserimus esse celebrandum . hieron. t. 4. symboli explan. . ad dama●um . a mat. 3. 15 that children are in favor with god , and so declared , see briefly redemp. . redeemed , p. 330 , 516 , 517. a religious contest, or a brief account of a disputation holden at blyton in the county of lincoln between mr. william fort minister of the perochial congregation at blyton on the one part, and thomas grantham, servant to the baptised churches on the other part : whereunto is added brief animadversions upon dr. stilling-fleet his digressions about infant baptism in his book intituled, a rational account of the protestant religion, &c., in both which are shewed that the generality of the nations now professing christianity are as yet unbaptised into christ : 1. because their sprinkling and crossing the fore-head is not the right way of baptising, 2. because infants ought not to be baptised. grantham, thomas, 1634-1692. 1674 approx. 93 kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from 21 1-bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : 2009-03 (eebo-tcp phase 1). a41787 wing g1544 estc r39430 18410482 ocm 18410482 107507 this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons 0 1.0 universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase 1, no. a41787) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set 107507) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, 1641-1700 ; 1634:6) a religious contest, or a brief account of a disputation holden at blyton in the county of lincoln between mr. william fort minister of the perochial congregation at blyton on the one part, and thomas grantham, servant to the baptised churches on the other part : whereunto is added brief animadversions upon dr. stilling-fleet his digressions about infant baptism in his book intituled, a rational account of the protestant religion, &c., in both which are shewed that the generality of the nations now professing christianity are as yet unbaptised into christ : 1. because their sprinkling and crossing the fore-head is not the right way of baptising, 2. because infants ought not to be baptised. grantham, thomas, 1634-1692. [6], 34 p. [s.n.], london printed : 1674. special t.p.: brief animadversions upon dr. stillingfleet's digressions about the baptising of infants / by thomas grantham. london : [s.n.], 1674. "epistle to the reader" signed: tho. grantham. errata: p. 34. imperfect : slightly faded, with print show-through. reproduction of original in the british library. created by converting tcp files to tei p5 using tcp2tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between 1473 and 1700 available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the 25,363 texts created during phase 1 of the project have been released into the public domain as of 1 january 2015. anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. 5% (or 5 pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of 100 instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level 4 of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p5, characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng fort, william. stillingfleet, edward, 1635-1699. -rational account of the grounds of protestant religion. baptists -england. infant baptism. 2007-11 tcp assigned for keying and markup 2007-11 apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images 2008-03 elspeth healey sampled and proofread 2008-03 elspeth healey text and markup reviewed and edited 2008-09 pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a religious contest . or , a brief account of a disputation holden at blyton in the county of lincoln . between mr. william fort minister of the perochial congregation at blyton on the one part , and thomas grantham , servant to the baptised churches on the other part . whereunto is added brief animadversions upon dr. stilling-fleet his digressions about infant baptism : in his book intituled , a rational account of the protestant religion , &c. in both which are shewed that the generality of the nations now professing christianity , are as yet unbaptised into christ . 1. because their sprinkling and crossing the fore-head is not the right way of baptising . 2. because infants ought not to be baptised . acts 2. 38. repent and be baptised every one of you in the name of jesus christ for the remission of sins , and ye shall receive the gifts of the holy ghost . mark 16. 16. he that believeth and is baptised shall be saved . london , printed in the year , 1674. the epistle dedicatory , to mr. vvilliam fort and the rest of the brethren and assistants at the dispute holden by his appointment at blyton the 18 day of september , 1673. reverend sirs i do seriously account it a part of my infelicity to see the distractions and divisions among us touching the worship of almighty god , and his holy child jesus , whom i trust we do all love and fear , and therefore it is the greater pitty that we who differ not about the godhead , should at all differ about the things which pertain to his blessed service . may it therefore please god to move upon all our hearts to consider ( laying aside all carnal interest ) where the causes on either side are given . and sith , perhaps we are more quick sighted about each others mistakes then our own , give me leave without offence , to shew briefly what i conceive is really amiss on your part , and i shall as willingly consider what may fairly be objected concerning us against that confideration . first then , when i look upon your reformation from papall errors , i cannot but heartily congratulate the piety and zeal of your martyrs , &c. specially in their being instrumental to bring that sacred institute of the lords table from under manifold corruptions wherewith it had been incumbred in the darkness of popery : but yet withall i must needs condole their shortness in not looking with like diligence to the pristine institution of sacred baptism , by which oversight we which survive them , are the more exposed to our present distractions , and i think i may say in this , as david in another case , because they did it not at the first therefore the lord made a breach upon us . secondly , when i consider the articles of the church of england , i think it very strange that we who agree so firmly in them all save three or four , and differ but in some points touching them neither , should not consider of some expedient to remove what obstructs our intire agreement . may it therefore please your bishops , with their brethren , to admit of a friendly conference with our bishops and pastors , to try if by any means away may be found to bring us to brotherly concord , for whatsoever hath happened in the heat of disputation , or fallen from the pens of passionate writers on eitherside , yet be pleased to know , we are no haters of the pious protestant , but sincere lovers of them and the truths by them maintain'd , as indeed we ought to be of all who love christ , though differing from us in many things . and though it is true we hold a separation from you in our congregations , yet we do this of necessity , because none among your leaders will treat with us about the removal of those things which do offend . i confess , to reform what is amiss on your part touching sacred baptism is a difficult undertaking , yet not more difficult then it was to reform what was amiss in the other sacrament , whether we consider their errors , who for some hundreds of years , gave it to infants , or theirs who by their transubstantiation changed the very nature of the sacrament ▪ but if no endeavouts of this kind must be admitted , then am i out of hopes ever to see christian concord among us , for those coercive ways ( which some incline to ) will but aggravate the breach ( which is too great already ) & render your cause the more suspitious , and consequently more confirm us in our perswasion against your way . now the lord himself direct us all to the way of truth and peace in all things ; so prays ; yours to love and serve you in christ as far as permitted . t. g. the epistle to the reader , shewing the occasion of this disputation . courteous reader . disputation is not more hurtful when needless , then profitable when necessity calls for it . and hereupon our lord christ himself was frequent in disputes about his doctrine . this way went the apostles to try the matter in question about circumcision , acts 15. and paul defended christianity by disputing dayly in the school of one tyrannus acts 19. the occasion of the dispute at blyton ▪ september 18. 1673. was on this wise . a small remnant of baptized christians meeting in that town , it pleased mr. fort minister of the perochial congregation there , to come to their meetings , and to hinder their proceedings , so that they could not edifie one another , as their manner was . and this he did many times , and told them he was resolved they should not meet in that town . and when the baptists endeavoured to maintain their principles , he slighted them , saying they were foolish men not fit to discourse of religion because they understood not the rules of logick , &c. but he bad them find him a man that had brains , and understood the languages , and knew logick and he would dispute with him . they told him they had few that understood these things . but he not ceasing to disturb them they consented to his motion , and a day was appointed , and because the baptists had not a convenient place , mr. fort provided a large room , and sent for them to come thither , where himself with two other ministers and divers of the neighbourhood were met togeth●r . for the account of the dispute it self , take this information that much of it is here reported according to what memory could serve in upon recogitation , but yet be assured of this that for substance it is not altered by this account , the arguments varying very little , or not at all from the very terms wherein they were expressed in the dispute , and mr. fort 's answers , rendred rather more advantagious , then in their first delivery . if it seem strange that a person of such learning and gravity , should answer and argue with no more advantage to his cause , the reader may take notice that god hath said , he will confound the wisdom of the wise , and bring to nought the understanding of the prudent and when he doth this , then where is the scribe , where is the disputer of this world. now whereas in this dispute i have used th● method which the learned do more affect , then other ways of disputing , i desire the reader to take notice , that i do not in any thing that i have said pretend at all to the parts of a scholar , being a person of no education that way , howbeit , having obtained mercy of the lord , to know somewhat of his blessed will , according to his word , i am therefore willing to appear in the defence of his truth when called thereunto . finally , my hearts desire and prayer to god , is , that though our present differences in religion , be matter of infelicity , yet sith we all agree , that christianity is the only true religion in the world , that we therefore may ●ndeavour to maintain the great engag●ment of charity , and m●deration , and then we may expect that the god of truth and peace , will pitty us under our mistakes , and also lead us into the enjoyment of that gracious promise , jer. 32. 39. even to give us one heart , and one way . so be it . tho. grantham . a religious contest , or , an account of the dispute held at blyton the eighteen of september , 1673. the people being come together , mr. fort applying himself to thomas grantham began after this manner . sir , i suppose that you are come hither to defend some unlawful meetings in this place which i have laboured to suppress , now that which i have to charge them with is this : that their meetings are unlawful . 2. that their way of anabaptism is sinful , and 3. i will prove that our way of baptizing infants is lawful . tho. grantham . sir , i came not hither to defend any mans sayings or doings , but to vindicate the truth of the gospel ( as much as in me is ) so far as i am concerned , and for anabaptism i am against it as much as you , nor do i think it needful to dispute about the baptizing of infants till some body be found to baptise them , for i think that there is no man in england that baptiseth any infants . mr. fort. why this is a strange thing ! can any thing be more plain , then that which is de facto , and here the three priests fell a laughing . t. grantham . gentlemen , you have no cause to laugh as yet , for i say ( and shall shew in due place ) that neither you nor any in the world that i can hear of does baptise any infants . mr. fort. i tell you friend we do baptise them and will you deny a thing that is de facto , and here they fell a laughing again . t. grantham . gentlemen , this doth not become the gravity of your persons , did you come hither to make sport ? but because you make this so strange , give me leave to put you in mind of the apostles saying , 1 cor. 11. this is not to eat the lords supper , and yet the corinthians did celebrate the lords supper as they supposed in the bread and wine which they set apart , but going from the institution of christ , the apostle denies it to be the lords supper . i therefore say you do not baptise at all , because you have lost the institution of christ . mr. fort. well , well , but first let me hear what you have to say for these unlawful meetings which i have endeavoured to suppress . t. grantham . i am not so much a stranger to the meetings you speak of , but i think they may be defended , but yet i suppose it the best way to try our principles , for if they be good , our meetings to promote good principles need not offend you , and truly till this day , i did not understand that our meetings should be the subject of our dispute . mr. fort. i perceive those that have informed you have done you some injury , for i did say , that your meetings were unlawful and therefore i opposed them , and seeing you have not premidated this , i will not surprize you , but will consent to dispute their principles . t. grantham . sir i thank you for that , and i desire that the questions may be fairly stated to contain the points in difference about the doctrine of baptism . mr. fort. well , i agree to that , and pray do you state the questions if you please . t. grantham . the questions then may be these , ( viz. ) qu. 1. whether your way of baptising , be the right way of baptising ? qu. 2. whether infants ought to be baptised ? mr. fort. well , let these be the questions , i say our way of baptisi●g i● right , and that infants ought to be baptised , and do you prove the contrary if you can . t. grantham . although you ought to prove what you affirm , yet i will accept your offer , and shall shew , that your pretended way of baptising is not the right way of baptising , and that infants ought not to be baptised , and first i argue thus . arg. 1. holy scripture doth shew what is the right way of baptising , holy scripture doth not shew sprinkling or crossing is the right way of baptising , ergo your way of baptising is not the right way of baptising , mr. fort we do not say that sprinkling or crossing is baptising , neither did i ever sprinkle any in all my life , t. g. then you contradict your brethren , whose constant practice is known to be sprinkling and crossing the fore-head , yea you contradict your own common prayer-book , for there your direction is to sprinkle and cross the infant . mr. fort. i confess our old common prayer-book did use the word sprinkle , but we have now altered it , and it is only baptise in the new common prayer-book . t. grantham , i confess reformation is no error , it seems then by your own grant your first book was faulty , and for your practise it is still the same , and i pray , as you are a schollar tell us plainly , doth the word baptise signifie to sprinkle ? m. fort. no , i do not say it doth the word that signifies sprinkling is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 t. g. in that you say well , and now pray answer to my argument , for it proves sprinkling is not the way of baptising . mr. fort. i have told you we do not say that sprinkling is baptising , neither do we make the cross any part of baptism . tho. grantham . you do certainly make the cross an appurtenance in your baptism , for you will excommunicate such as refuse to use it in baptism , and for sprinkling i appeal to this assembly , who can witness it 's the common practice of your ministry to sprinkle the fore-head , and it is remarkable that you cannot stand by your practice now it is opposed . i desire you to answer the argument . mr. fort. i have answered it for i do not sprinkle , but i always pour water upon those whom i baptise , and for my own part i was dipped , and so according to your own judgement rightly baptised . t. grantham . if you were dipped then you had more done to you then your brethren in that case , and so you are divided in your practice nor is your pouring water on the fore-head baptising and therefore answer the argument . mr. fort. here mr. fort and the other ministers spake together disowning sprinkling , and saying they did not make the cross necessary in baptism , for ( say they ) in private baptism it is not used . t. grantham . you know that the papists allow of midwife to pour water out of a glass upon the infant , which they account a valid baptism yet at other times they make their ceremonies necessary , and so do you the cross , performing in the name of the father , son and holy spirit . mr. fort. that is not so , we do not perform it in the name of the father , son , and holy spirit , therefore you wrong us . t. grantham . this is strange , for either you do it in the name of the lord , or in your own name , if you do it in your own name pray tell us so , but you answer not the argument , therefore i proceed . arg. 2. that which renders the practise of christ and his apostles supers●●ous , ●r ridiculous , is not the right way of baptising . but your pretended way of baptising renders the practice of christ and his disciples superfluous , or ridiculous , ergo. your way of baptising is not the right way of baptising . mr. fort. the minor is denyed our way of baptising doth not render the practice of christ or his disciples superfluous or ridiculous . t. grantham . the minor i evince by this demonstration , he that considers how christ and his disciples were baptised , and did baptise in rivers or places of much water and you on the other side take a little water on your finger ends , or in your hand only , must needs conclude that either they did too much , or you do too little ; now thus it is written , mat. 3 jesus when he was baptized came up streight way out of the water , mark 1. they were all baptized in the river of jordan , confessing their sins . john baptised in enon because there was much water there . phillip and the eunuch went both down into the water . now if your putting a few drops of water on the fore-head only , be sufficient then the other must needs be superfluous , yea ridiculous . mr. fort. this does not prove the minor , for we do not deny dipping , and i pray what do you mean when you say our way renders christs to be ridiculous . t. grantham . i mean a thing to be laughed at , and put the case you had occasion to wash your hands only , would it not be ridiculous to see you go into the river to do it ? even does thus your pretended way of baptising , render the way of christ ridiculous and reflects dishonour on him and his followers , as if they were not so wise as you , to know the best way to be baptized , but we are resolved to follow christ though we differ from you . mr. fort. yes , the word ridiculous doth signifie so much , but yet i deny that our practise doth reflect upon christs , for though in these hot countreys they did dip in rivers , yet it was not necessary in these colder countreys to do so , for christ hath not commanded that . t. grantham . then you confess it was the practice of the first christians to dip in rivers , and i ask you whether they did this by a command or not ? mr. fort. yes , i grant they did it by a command . t. grantham . then you have granted sufficient to overthrow your practice , and to confirm ours , unless you can also shew a command for sprinkling . mr. fort. i have told you i do not sprinkle . t. grantham . the contrary is the known practice of your ministry , and yours is little differing , i proceed to another argument . arg. 3. that which brings unavoidable confusion into the church is not the right way of baptising : but your way of baptising doth bring unavoidable confusion into the church . ergo , your way of baptising is not the right way of baptising mr. fort. our practice in baptising as we do , doth not bring confusion into the church . t. grantham . i shew the contrary thus , your way of baptising admits of as many several ways , as there are parts in a mans body ; for whether the fore-head , the breast , back , hand or foot , or some other part ought to be only sprinkled , or whether any of these may not serve , you can shew no reason , so that you thus bring confusion into the church : mr fort. the head being the most honourable part of mans body , we therefore chuse the head and think that the best . t. grantham this is only your imagination , and if i think otherwise , and so chuse the breast , you cannot shew this to be a greater errour then your own , but i proceed . arg. 4. that which renders all men uncertain whether they do the will of god or not , is not the right way of baptising , but your way of baptising doth render all men uncertain whether they do the will of god or not , ergo , your way of baptising is not the right way of baptising . mr. fort i deny that our way renders men uncertain , whether they do the will of god or not . t. g. god hath not assigned any one part of the body to be baptised , and not another , therefore no man that follows your way can tell whether he do the will of god or not , in following your way : arg. 5. that way which doth not signifie that which ought to be represented in baptism is not the right way of baptising . but your pretended way doth not signifie that which ought to be represented in baptism . ergo. your way of baptising is not the right way of baptising . mr fort. our way of baptising doth signifie the cleansing of the conscience from sin which is the thing that ought to be signified in baptism : t. g. no action of mans devising may be said to signifie the cleansing our conscience● from sin , but my argument refers to the whole signification of baptism , and particularly the burial of christ and others with him , rom. 6 we are buried with him in baptism , and the scripture cannot be broken , therefore baptism must so be performed as to signifie these things : arg. 6. that which agrees not with the native signification of the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is not the right way of baptising . but your way agrees not with the native signification of the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 : ergo , your way is not the right way of baptising . mr. fort the minor is denied , our practice agrees with the signification of the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 : t. g. i desire you to shew the place which mentions such a washing as you practice , where the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is taken to express the sacred act of baptism : mr. fort. it is said the pharises did wash their cups and beds ; here the word baptizo is used , yet they did not dip them . t. grantham . i call'd for a text wher the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is used to express the sacred act of baptism , and that signifies your manner of washing , and instead of this , you bring me a place which speaks of the pha. rises washing cups and beds , and yet even this place is against you , for they that wash defiled cups and beds do more then sprinkle them , or poure a little water upon them , as you do on the infants fore-head ; and here give me leave to urge some authorities for the sigsiification of the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to be a dipping of the thing denominated baptized , and first i urge the greek grammer , where the radix is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and rendred , mergo , immergo , to dip or plunge . mr. fort. i will not regard the greek grammar . t. grantham . this is strange ! will you take upon you to correct the greek grammar . mr. fort. yes that i will , i will not believe the greek grammar . t. grantham . i suppose you would correct our bibles too if you could , but till this be done give us leave to believe the grammar which we have for i do not expect a better from you ; my next authority is that of channer , who saith 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 estingo quod fit immergendo portinctionem , & inundationem . mr. fort. i have not seen that author . t. grantham . then i give you another : an brose saith , ergofratres tingi debens 〈◊〉 fonte quo christus . therefore brethren we must be dipped in the same fountain with christ , that we may be one with christ , and to this agree the decrees of some councells . mr. fort. pray assign those counsells that decreed such a thing if you can . t. grantham . the forth toleton counsell ( which is ratified in the decretalls ) saith proter vitandum schismatis scandulum , & ● . wherefore to avoid the scandal of schism ▪ let us in baptism dip but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and saith the counsell of worms ▪ in aquas demersio in infernum est , & rursus ab aquis emersio resurrectio est . mr. fort. well i have told you i was dipped yet i had but my head only dipped , and for my part i do not use sprinkling at all . t. grantham . sir , i have shewed how therein you contradict your brethren and the church of england , and it 's observable that you cannot stand by your way of baptising , and hereby you give this assembly just cause to suspect their baptism , but i proceed . arg. 7. that practice which was innovated long after the institution of baptism is not the right way of baptising . but your way was innovated long after the institution of baptism . ergo , your way is not the right way of baptising . mr. fort. i deny that our way was innovated long after the institution of baptism . t. grantham . i can prove it was innovated long after the institution of baptism by your own doctors . for example , hugo grotius who confesses so much in his judgement on sundry points controverted , also the learned marquess of worcester in his conference with his late majesty confesses that their church ( to wit the papists ) changed baptism from dipping over head and ears to a little sprinkling upon the forehead , and wallridus strabo de rebus ecclesiae , that the first christians were baptized simply in floods and fountains , yea i can prove by our own chronicles that there were about ten thousand baptised in one day in the river swale in york-shire , from all which it appears your way of sprinkling is an innovation . mr. w mr. wright one of the ministers that sat by was very angry and stood up , saying ; you speak all , it is not fit you should speak so much . t. grantham to whom t. g. replyed sir you ought not to be angry ; i do not interrupt mr. fort , and he hath time to speak what he hath to say : therefore blame not me sith i hear as well as speak . mr. fort. pray mr wright be not angry ; i promised it should be a peaceable dispute . t. grantham . because i would give place that mr. fort ●ight have time to prove his practice , i would now proceed to the second question , ( viz ) qu. 2. whether infants ought to be baptized , i am to prove they ought not , which i thus do , arg. 1. holy scripture doth shew who are to be baptized , holy scripture d●th not shew that infants ought to be baptised . ergo , infants ought not to be baptised . mr. fort. holy scripture doth shew that infants ought to be baptised . thomas grantham . if holy scripture doth shew that infants ought to be baptised , then some body can shew where it may be found , but no body can shew us where such a scripture may be found . ergo holy scripture doth not shew that infants ought to be baptised . mr. fort. i can shew where it may be found , and i will prove that infants ought to be baptised , from mat. 28 19. t. grantham sir , you mistake your place , for you are not now to prove , but to answer me , nor doth the text you mention speak of infant baptism at all . mr. fort. the word is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 make disciples in all nations baptising them , but infants are part of the nations that are to be baptised . t. grantham . you do violate the law of disputing , for being my respondent you ought not to argue . now for the text it is read thus 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 &c. now for the explication of the verb 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , i refer you to john the 4 1. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 here disciples are made such by actual teaching : ergo , infants cannot be made disciples according to mat. 28. 19. mr. fort. i deny , that it is necessary to understand an actual teaching by the w●rd 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 t. g. the very reading of the text gives it against you , for it saith go teach all nations , ●twas an act to be done by the apostles . mr. fort. i tell you infants of believers are disciples and need no act to make them so . t. g. that cannot be , they must be made disciples either by god or man before they can be disciples , however they cannot be disciples according to mat. 28. because that is interpreted by your self to make disciples , ( viz ) by the apostles . mr. fort. but there is no necessity to understand an actual teaching of all that are to be made disciples . t. grantham . it can have no other signification , as i shall shew by your own criticks , who tell us that the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 est disco , to learn or get knowledge and in the hebrew 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 & 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 comes of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 didict and is rendred dicens ab alio , which agrees with the syriack 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and the arab. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 this fully accords with mark 16. 16. go preach the gospel to every creature and hence i argue . if those that are to be baptised according to mat. 28. 19. must first be made by actual teaching or learning from another , then no infant ought to be baptised according to this text but the first is true : ergo , so is the latter . mr. fort. i will prove that infants ought to be baptised as being disciples from acts 15. why tempt ye god to put a yoke upon the necks of the disciples ? this is spoken of infants , and therefore they are disciples . t. g. sir , i marvel you should no better observe the law of disputing which i must hold you to , and the rather because you were pleas●d to glory so much over your poor neighbours because of your skill in logick , and now i will shew your mistake of this text by the prosecution of my next argument which is this . arg 2 none ought to be baptised but such as are christs disciples , according to the gospel use of that expression . infants are not christs disciples according to the gospel use of that ●●pression . ergo infants ought not to be baptized . mr. fort. i deny the minor , infants are christs disciples according to the gospel use of that expression . t. grantham . none are christs disciples according to the gospel use of that expression , but such as take up their cross daily and follow christ , but infants do not so . ergo , to this agree the words of christ , luk. 12. mr. fort. this place speaks of persons of years , and not of infants . t. grantham . i grant it , and so doth every text that speaks of christs disciples according to the gospel use of that expression . mr. fort. not so , for i will shew a place where infants are called disciples , acts 15. here such as were to be circumcised after the manner of moses are called disciples and you know infants were circumcised after the maaner of moses . t. grantham . that infants were circumcised after the manner of moses is true , and that the false apostles would have put the yoke upon all the disciples is true , but that every one upon whom they would have put that yoke were disciples is not true ; i will expound this text by another , acts 4. 32. here we are informed that the multitude of them that believed had all things common ▪ yet it doth not follow that all that had part in these common things were believers , for infants had part in common things , and yet were no believers , for it 's said the multitude of them that believed were of one heart , and one soul. mr. fort. that text doth not expound the other . t. grantham . let them be diligently compared , and you will find that a man may as well prove infants believers from the one , as you can prove them disciples from the other , but i proceed . arg. 3. none ought to be baptized but those whose duty it is to be born again of water and of the spirit . it is not the duty of infants to be born again of water and the spirit . ergo , infants ought not to be baptised . mr. fort. i except against the term duty in your argument . t. grantham . why so ? mr. fort. there are four terms in your argument ; t. grantham . this is but an evasion , and no answer , you cannot shew four terms in it . mr. fort. i say infants ought to be born again of water and of the spirit . t. grantham . here you grant that they ought to be born again of water , and of the spirit , and yet deny it to be their duty , this is no good distinction to make the new birth no part of mans duty , but i will prove that whosoever is born again must therein perform duty , i joh. 5. whatsoever is born of god overcometh the world , and this is the victory even our faith : certainly to believe and overcome the world is something of duty . mr. fort , this place speaks not of infants , but of persons which are adult , t. grantham i grant it , but withall i say this text speaketh of whatsoever is born of god , and saith christ , every one that is born of the spirit is like the wind that bloweth so as the sound thereof is heard now can you imagine your infants are born again of the spirit , seeing they give not any demonstration of it ? mr. fort. you still insist upon places which speak of adult persons . t. grantham . i have told you that all the scriptures which speak of the new birth of water and of the spirit , speaks of adult persons , or if any speak of infants pray shew us where they are . arg ▪ 4. no sinners ought to be baptized , but those of whom faith and repentance is first required , faith and rep●ntance are not required of infants . e●go , infants are not such sinners as ought to be baptized . mr. fort. this argument is like the rest , you still insist upon those things wh●●h are the duty of adult persons . t. grantham your conscience tells you that i insist upon those things which are the duty of all that are to be baptised ; yea your vulgar catechism teacheth us that faith and repentance are required of all that are to be baptised , but seeing you answer not , but evade only , i shall proceed . arg. 5. all that ought to be buried with christ in baptism , ought first to be dead with him from the rudiments of the world . infants ought not to be dead with christ from the rudiments of the world . ergo , infants ought not to be baptised . mr. fort. i deny the consequence . t. grantham . no sir , you cannot deny the consequence in a categoricall syllogism , so that you must either distinguish , or deny one of the propositions . mr. fort. well then , i deny your major . t. g. i need but only shew the absurdity of this your denyal , for you say in effect that so●e are to be buried before they be dead , now that all christians in rome and coloss were dead with christ , before they were buried with him in baptism , is evident , rom. 6 , 1 , 2 , 3 , 4 , colos . 2. 10 , 11 , 12. and is as true of all other churches , by which it is plain that no infants were then , nor ought now to be baptised . arg. 6. such only ought to be baptised as christ and his apostles did baptise , or appointed to be baptised , but neither christ nor his apostles baptised any infants , n●r appointed them to be baptised , ergo. m. fort. christ did appoint infants to be baptised , and said suffer little children to come unto me and forbid them not , mat. 18. t. grantham , all that can fairly be inferred of this passage is this , that if any desire the prayers of the ministers of christ for their children &c. they may lawfully pray for such blessings as they have need of ; but if any presume to baptise them , they do more to them then christ did , or any other by his appointment . mr. fort. the jaylor and all his were baptised , and how can you think there were no infants in his house . t. grantham . the very reading of this text doth shew , that there were no infants baptised , for first the word was preached to him and to all that were in his house , secondly he rejoyced believing in god with all his house : i desire no better evidence against your infant baptism then the place you bring for it . arg. 7. all that are to be baptised ought therein to worship god in spirit and truth , as also in other general duties of the n●w testament . but infants ought not to worship god in spirit and in truth in baptism , nor any other general duty of the new testainent . ergo , infants ought not to be baptised . mr. fort. what do you mean by the general duties of the new testa ent ? t , g. i mean prayer , hearing the word , and communion at the lords table according to acts. 2. 41. 42. mr. fort this is spoken of grown persons , and not of infants . t. grantham . this is spoken of all that were baptised in the first church , whose pattern we ought to sollow rather then the innovations of men. mr. fort. your way is an innovation not much above two hundred years old . tho. grantham . not so , for our way of baptising began in the days of john the baptist , and for our opposing infant baptism 't is very antient , for as soon as we hear it mentioned we find it opposed by tertullian who lived in the third century : mr. fort. tertullian is conceived to oppose only the baptising of the children of unbelievers : t. g. that is a great mistake , his words are indefinite , for he saith , veniant ergo dum adolescunt , veniant dum discunt , dum quo veniant decentur , fiant christiam cum christum nosse potuerint . mr. w mr. wright who was one of the other priests , stood up and said , let the business be put to that issue , for you only have tertullian for the antients , and he was a mantanists . t. grantham . if he must be lightly looked at because he was in some errour , as that of montanus , then you must lay aside most of the antient fathers who also had their errours , but you are mistaken tertullian was not the only person among the antients that opposed infant baptism , for greg. nazianzene did likewise disswade from it . mr. wright . we have irenaeus before tertullian who speaks for infant baptism for he saith infantes pueris senis . t. grantham , you act his words amiss , for it is not senis but seniores . mr. wright . it is senis , it is senis . t. grantham , you mistake it is s●niores , and beside irenaeus speaks not of baptism , only he useth the words , renascunter in d●um . mr. fort the antients understood by them words to be baptized . t. g. it is inconvenient so to interpret ir●●eus in this place ; for then it would follow that unless infants be baptised they cannot be saved , which is absurd , but i desire you to answer to the argument mr. fort seemed not disposed to give any surther answer : then t. grantham said i have propounded and prosecuted 7 arguments against your pretended way of baptising ▪ and 7 against your infant subject , of what weight they are , and how you have answered them , we are no proper judges ▪ but must leave that to the auditors ; now because i would not take up the whole time , i desire you to be opponent , and i will answer you : i conclude with the words of aug●stine , nec ego te , nec tu me , sed ambo audiamus christi in scrip●●res . mr. fort opponent . i am now to prove our way of baptising to be the right way of baptising , and that infants ought to be baptised . arg. 1. if our way of baptising doth signifie that which ought to be signified in baptism then it is the right way of baptising . but our way of baptising doth signifie that which ought to be signified in baptism . ergo , it is the right way of baprising . t. grantham . if you mean that your way of baptising doth signifie all that ought to be signified in baptism , then i deny the minor , and we have before shewed how short it comes of the true and full signification of baptism . mr. fort. our way of baptising signifies the washing away of sins , and it agrees with the signification of the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which is to wash , therefore it is sufficient . t. grantham . the contrary to this hath been shewed and i now deny that every kind of washing agrees with the signification of the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 when used to express the sacred act of baptising , and i desire you to shew one text where that word is taken for a washing the fore-head only when the sacred act of baptising is expressed by it ▪ mr fort. the jaylor was baptised at midnight ; and do you think he had a river in his house ? t. grantham you are much mistaken the jaylor went out to be baptised : mr. fort. you cannot make that appear . t. grantham . yes the reading of the text is plain to that purpose , for it is said he was baptised , he , and all his straightway , and then it follows , and when he had brought them into his house , he set meat before them . mr. fort. that may be meant of carrying them out of one room into another t. grantham . this is contrary to common sence ; you cannot speak your conscience in this . mr. fort. i have shewed our way of baptizing is sufficient , i will now prove that infants ought to be baptised . arg , 2 ▪ if infants are within the covenant of grace then they ought to be sealed with the seal of the covenant , and by consequence to be baptised . but infants are within the covenant of grace and ough to be sealed , &c , ergo , they ought to be baptized . t. grantham . before i answer your argument give me leave to ask you a question ▪ how many seals belong to the covenant of grace , and what be they ? mr. fort. there are two seals of the covenant , to wit , baptism , and the lords supper : t , g. then i deny your minor proposition from your own practice , for you deny infants one of these seals , to wit , the lords supper , though you confess them to be within the covenant , and we by as good reason deny the other seal to belong to infants : mr. fort. yes , we have better reason for the one then you have for the other , for it is said ; let a man examine himself , and so let him eat . t. grantham . 1. it is also said , repent and be baptised every one of you , acts 2. ●8 . if thou believest with all thine heart thou maist . 2. i might answer your instance out of your own mouth , by saying this is meant of persons of years , and not of infants , which as it is true so it shews the weakness of your answers to many of my arguments . mr. fort. i say infants being in the covenant they ought to be sealed with the seal ▪ and i pray tell me plainly whether you hold them in the coven●n● or no ? t. g. i say being in the covenant you mean the grace of eternal life by the death of christ , then i say all infants are so in the covenant of say but if by covenant you mean the duties of the covenant , then i 〈◊〉 infants are not so under the covenant . mr fort. you cannot prove that all infants dying in infancy shall be saved . t. g. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 if it were my business , i could and would prove it , but i am 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 you ▪ mr. fort. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to prove it if you can . t. grantham . then i prove it by the testimony of the apostle , who saith as in adam all dye , so in christ shall all be made alive , and again as by the offence of once the judgement came on all men to condemnation , so by the obedience of one the free gift abounded towards all men to justification of life . mr. fort. these places do not prove that all infants dying in infancy shall be saved ; for he speaks here only of the resurrection of the dead . t. g. these places do shew that what death and condemnation came on infants by adam is made void by the death of christ , and i desire you to answer me this question , whether you believe that any infants dying in infancy shall be damned ; mr. fort. yes i do be●ieve some infants dying in infancy shall be damned , ( here the people gave a general sigh as disliking so harsh a saying . ) t. g. then you are no friend to infants ; shall the lord tell us , the son shall not bear the iniquity of the father , and shall we no● believe him . mr. fort. the lord doth say he will visit the iniquities of the father upon the children unto the third and fourth generation . t. g. yea sir , but it is of them that hate him , but yet i grant in respect of temporal punishments the children do often bear the iniquities of their fathers , yea , all infants do bear the sin of their father adam to this day , but our discourse is of eternal condemnation , in which respect i say infants shall not bear the iniquity of their father , seeing christ saith of infants indefinitely , of such are the kingdom of god. mr. fort well i have shewed that infants being in the covenant ought therefore to be baptized , and it is said 1 cor. 7. that infants are holy and so they are in covenant with their believing parents . t. g : i have answered your argument by distinguishing betwixt the duty of the covenant , and the mercy of eternal life , in the first i say infants are not in the covenant , but in the other i say they are for they shall be saved by christ . and for the holiness the 1 cor. 7. it is expounded by erasmus , and others of your own doctors to be only a legi●timate holiness , and indeed being derived from the unbelievers being sanctified , it cannot fairly be understood of any other kind of cleanness then that which is matrimonial . mr. wright mr. w. interposed saying diodate doth expound that place of a covenant holiness . t. g. i grant he doth so , yet augustine far more antient then he saith , that whatsoever that ho●iness is it is certain it is not of power to make christians or remit sins . mr. e. i marvel you ●…ould deny infants the seal seeing you grant them to be in the covenant . t. g. i do not deny them the seal any more then your self , who deny them the lords supper , which was allowed them in old time for 600 years together . mr. f. what author saies so ? i do not think you can shew that in any good author . t. g. i can shew it from your own doctors in a learned treatise called a scholastical discourse about symbolising vvith anti-christ in ceremonies . mr. fort. infants being in the covenant are in the church , and therefore cannot be denyed baptism , t. grantham . i answer by the former distinction if by being in the covenant and in the church you mean the whole number of the saved : i grant infants to be in the covenant and in the church ; but if you mean those onlie who are in the actual profession of gospel ordinances , as baptism and the like , i say no scripture shews them to be so in the covenant . mr. fort repeating what he said before , rose up to go away , then tho. grantham said . gentlemen , though we differ in opinion , yet i desire we may endeavour to maintain the great duty of charitie towards each other , till god shall rectifie our judgements in these things . mr. w , mr. wright replied , saying it was not meet to place all our religion in these ●hings , but to walk in love one towards another , or to this effect , and thus in a f●iendlie manner the meeting was dissolved & everie man went away in peace . the next day the baptised christians met together to preach the word : mr. fort and mr. wright came to the meeting and i● a very civil manner assaied to discourse with them about the authoritie by which they preach , supposing that they had no ordinarie calling to the ministry , but when it was shewed them that no man was allowed to minister in the baptised churches in the capacity of a pastor or other officer , without due election and ordination by fasting and prayer , with the laying on of hands by the presbiterie , bishops , or overseers of the church ; they then onlie opposed that libertie of prophecie , which we allow , saying that gifted men in the church , as meer gifted christians might not praie , or expound the word in publick assemblies , we on the contrarie alledgd that gifted christians as such might lawfullie speak in the church to exhortation , &c. in a modest and humble manner for the improvement of gi●ts and the profit of the church . quoting to this purpose 1 pe. 4 , 10 , 11 ▪ 1 cor. 14. 31. acts 18. 25 26. we spent about half an hour in friendlie discourse about the meaning of those scriptures , but not agreeing in our expositions , mr. fort took his leave , and we proceeded in our work . finis . brief animadversions upon dr. stillingfleet's digressions about the baptising of infants , in his book intituled a rational account of the grounds of the protestant religion . &c. wherein the insufficiency of his grounds for infant baptism is discovered . by thomas grantham . job . 14. 4. who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean one . isa . 29. 16. surely your turning things upside down shall be esteemed as the petters clay . london , printed in the year , 1674. to the reader . it is not any conceit of my fitness to contend with learned men in the controversies depending about sacred baptism , which moves me to this present undertaking , but the experience i have of the mistake of some persons , who take the things brought by dr. stilling-fleet in favour of infant baptism , to be of greater weight then what hath been done by other men in that question , as also i might by this paper move some abler hand to reckon morefully and methodically with his new devices , if upon consideration they find themselves concerned to do it . but chiefly my aim is , to move , if it may be , the learned authour , to consider how much he injures the cause he manages against the papists , with so much judgement and learning , whilst he endeavours to support his traditional infant sprinkling ( for baptism it is not ) which being allowed , other innovations of popery , or other sects will certainly be supported together with it , as having the same grounds , and in some respect fairer pretences to obtrude upon the church of god , from all which errours let her be delivered , by the protection of the almighty , to whose grace i comit thee . thine to serve thee in christ . tho. grantham . brief animadversions upon dr. stillingfleet's digressions about the baptising of infants . solomon the wise , hath told us , there are many devices in mans heart . the truth whereof is verified in the multitude of devices old and new which men have found out to darken the counsell of god , teaching the sacred institution of the baptism of repentance for the remision of sins . nevertheless the counsell of god that shall stand , and therefore neither shall the devices of dr. stillingfleet prevail , nor be found ●o much as a rational account of the grounds of infant baptism , albeit divers persons are perswaded that he hath out-done others , that have undertaken to defend that innovation . 1. first , therefore we shall consider the two texts , john 3. 5. act. 2. 38 , 39. which he says , according to the interpretation of the fathers and the antient church and the papists themselves do evidently assert infant baptism ▪ it were answer sufficient to tell h●m , that what ever was the interpretation of the fathers , &c. yet , according to the interpretation of the protestants , the grounds of whose religion he presents to give an account off , these texts , doth not hold forth such a necessity of infant baptism , as by some of the antients was imagined , seeing the protestants do not say , as the papists and some before them , no baptism no salvation ; but they more truly teach , that this place is to be understood ( even as some of the fathers also expounded it ) of such as refuse or contemn baptism , and yet saying withall to your confutation , that it is not necessary by water , john , 3. 5. to understand the external rite of baptism . see fulk . ans . to the rhemists annot. john 3. so dr. willit synops . papis . however , it is evident to them that will not shut their eyes that in john 3. 5. christ is shewing the way of life , and the duties of regeneration to such as came to him for instruction , and spea●● nothing there , of the case of infants , who ( as one well observes ) cannot overcome the world , by reason of their natural incapacity to know either good or evil , and therefore are not obliged to the duties of the new birth , to wit , repentance , faith and baptism , for whatsoever is born of god overcometh the world , and this is the victory that overcometh the world even our faith . and hence it is evident that john 3. 5. cannot be understood of infants , who are wholly uncapable of the duties of regeneration . and as eviden● it is , that acts ● 38. 39. intends not infants seeing the persons there to be baptised , even every one of them , are required first to repent ; a duty of which infants are wholly uncapable ; and the promise there mentioned is clearly meant of the gi●ts of the holy ghost or the spirit of promise in a special manner , according to the prophesie of jo●l , the extent of which promise is only to the called of the lord , v●rse 39 ▪ and this interpretation also is avouched by learned protestants , see diodate on the text , and erasmus on the same ; dr jer. taylor in his book of confirmation doth fully expound this place , of the promise of the spirit both to the parents , and to the children , as they are the called of the lord , and not to infants in that capacity . lib. proph●cy . so then the pretended evidence of infant baptism from this place is taken away , because this tr●th is hence very evident , that calling by the word of the gospel regeneration ●y faith and repentance are the true antecedents to the baptism of every sinner . 2. secondly , dr st●lling-fleet states the q●estion between the baptists and the paed●-baptists after this manner . wh●ther our bless●d savio●r hath by a positive precept so determined the subject of baptism , viz. adult persons professing the faith , that the a●teration of the subject , in baptising infants be not a deviation from , a●d a p●rversion off the institution of christ in a substantial part of it ? 〈…〉 short , whether our saviour hath so determined the subject of bapt●sm as to exclude infants . this done he tells us that taking in only the help of scripture and reason , it were no difficult matter to ●rove directly that infants are so far from being excluded baptism by the institution of christ , that there are as many grounds as are necessary to a matter of that nature , to prove that the baptising 〈◊〉 is ●uita●le to the institution of ●hrist , and agreeable to the 〈◊〉 of the church under the gospel . so then , scripture and rea●on ●nly must now deside the controversie , let us hear therefore 〈…〉 st●ll●ng fleet brings from thence , and th●s he speaks . if there were any ground to exclude them it must be either the incapacity of the subject or some express precept and institution of our saviour , but neither of them can be supposed to do it . but i answer , for both these cau●es infants are not to be bapti●ed , and sith their incapacity depends upon the nature of the institution these two reasons are resolved into one ; now the institution of baptism , whether we consider it as delivered by god to his servant john , and by him to us ; or as it is established by precept from christ , for a perpetual ministry in his church to the end of the world ▪ we shall find it delivered by both in such sort , as it is exclusive of infants ; for , in the first place it is deli●ered as the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins ; mark 1. 4. and every sinner who is said to be baptised by him , is said to be baptised confessing their sins , verse 5. which we know is not to be expected of infants . the precept of our saviour for the perpetuity of baptism so expresly requires the making every subject a disciple in order thereunto , and that by actual teaching , or preaching the gospel to them , mat. 28. 19. mark 16 15 ▪ according to christs own example , who so made disciples before they were baptised , that no infant with any shew of scripture or reason can possibly be brought within the reach of baptism according to it's institution ; in a word dr. st●ll●ng-fl●et seems , in so many words , to grant in his first state of the question that to bring infants to baptism , is an alteration of the subject , and therefore not agreeable to the institution of christ , in which to admit of alterations is very dangerous . but saith dr. s. the rule and measure as to the capacity of divine institutions must be fetched from the end of them , for this was the ground ef the circumcision of proselites under the law. answer , that the ground of the circumcision of proselites was fetched from the end of the institution , is not true . and indeed had it been left to that , mens various conceits about the ends of such institutions might have made as ill work , as we see yours do now ▪ wherefore the wisdom of god to prevent those dangers , gave express order in that case as appears , gen 17. 13. compared with exod. 12. 44. 48. and when a stranger shall sojourn with thee , and will keep the passeover , let all his males be circumcised , and verse 49 , one law shall be to him that is home born , and unto the strager that sojourneth among you . thus we see the law is as express for the circumcising proselites and their males , as for israel themselves diodate also expounds the first place by the second ( the servant that is born ) meaning ( saith he ) the proselite who of his own free will shall add himself to the church by the profession of gods true worship . but now , if we admit dr. s. his rule , that the measure as to the capacity of divine institutions , must be fetched from the ends thereof , yet will he be so farr from gaining , that he will quite lose his cause . for , if by the ends of baptism he means the things signified in baptism ( as that he does , for he said they who are capable of the thing signified ought not to be denyed the sign ) then we shall certainly gain one thing out of two and either of them will serve our turn to shew his mistake , viz. either infants are not capable of baptism , becau●e not capable of all things signified thereby , or else that the protestants do violate their own rule in denying infants some other holy signs , as general as baptism , when yet they are capable of some of the things signified thereby , and this shall evidently appear ●y running the parralell between us , as to the grounds upon which you deny infants the priviledge of the lords table , and we deny them baptism . and first . 1 the things signified by the lords table ( as the ends of that institution ) is christ crucified for us , and to c●me again to receive us to him●elf , of these mercies infants are capable , because they shall be saved by the death and comming of the lord jesus , thus they have the thing signified ▪ yet you deny them the sign because they understand not the thing represented by the sign . answerable to this we say , by baptism is signified the death and resurection of christ and our salvation thereby , of this mercy signified in baptism infants are capable but yet the sign is not given to them because they understand not the thing signified thereby . 2. the ends , or things signified by the lords table , on our part are , the profession of our fa●th , the manifestation of our union with the church , &c. of these ends infants are not capable , therefore then do not admit them to the lords ta●le . answerable to this we say , the things signified in baptism on our ●●rt , are the profession of o●r faith , and manifestation of our union 〈◊〉 the saints , &c. of these ends ●nfants are not capable , therefore 〈…〉 them not to baptism . 3. our coming to the lords table holds forth abstainence f●om the levened bread of malice and wickedness , and our feeding upon the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth ; of these ends ( as they are duties ) infants are not capable , therefore you admit them not to the lords table . answerable to this we say , baptism holds forth our death to sin , and the newness of life from our baptism to the end , of these ends of baptism infants are not capable , and therefore we admit them not to baptism , for the rule and measure as to the capacity of divine institutions is to be fetched from the ends of them . the same might be said concerning the imposition of hands with prayer for the spirit of promise , seeing it was practised by the apostles upon the newly baptised indifferently yet you admit no infants to this divine institution , though you suppose them to be baptised , although according to protestant doctrine they are capable of the promise act. 2. 38 , 39. and the benediction signified , and obtained thereby by which your inconsistancy with your own rule is further manifested and hence i infer ( according to your own words ) by a parity of reason built on equal grounds , you ought not to baptise infants because the rule and measure , as to divine institutions , or the capacity of the subjects ther●of are to be fetched from the ends thereof . not from some ends only ( and those too only which we please ) as dr. s doth unadvisedly teach , for so there would be no man , or but very few , but might be brought to baptism , or other ordinances , seeing they are capable of several things signified therein , as the death of christ for the sins of the world and his resurection , by which all shall rise again ; and whether they believe it or no , yet he is the lord that bought them , and a mediator between god and them , that his long-suffering might lead them to repentance wherefore your instance of our saviours being baptised without repentance avails you nothing , unless you were a le to prove a special case to be a general rule for the practise of ordinances , which yet you cannot but know is pernicious many ways , nor can you rationally believe that because christ who was no sinner was baptized without repentance , that therefore you must baptise sinners without repentance also ; if otherwise , then why may not persons be admitted to the lords table without self examination , seeing christ did partake of it without self examination , having no need to do so ? certainly though christ did this it shall never be demonstrated that the members of his church may do it without self examination , and yet thus went the matter in old time for hundreds of years together , so true is the maxim admit one absurdity and more will follow . but to make an end of this , its evident : christ in being baptised did his duty to god , and had he not been baptised he had not fulfilled all righteousness ; let it now be shewed that it●s the duty of infants to be baptised , or that they or any body else commits sin in refusing infant baptism , and then we shall stand upon no further capacity on their part nor oppose this instance as to the end for which it is brought but till this be done we justly reject such argumentation . neither is it true , that what we say of the incapacity of infants &c. reflects upon the wisdom of god in appointing circumcision for infants , for gods command made them fit subjects for it , together with the nature of the covenant which he made with abraham , and his , according to the flesh , which covenant he also ordained to be in their flesh by circumcision , gen. 17. 13. now therefore when it shall appear , that the covenant of the gospel , ( i mean it , as established by christ in his church ) is made with any man and his seed according to the flesh , and that god hath required the gospel covenant should be in their flesh by baptism , and so every infant born of them , or servant bought with money to be baptised we shall then grant that to insist on the incapacity of infants would reflect upon the wisdom of god , but sith this neither is , nor can be done , all these pretended reflections falls really upon dr. s. for denying infants the lords supper , because of their incapacity , who yet were admitted to the passeover , of which they were as uncapable as of the lords table . what the dr. says further of the ends of baptism to represent and exhibit the nature of the grace of the gospel and to confirm the truth of the covenant on gods part : we have considered before , and to what you here add , saying , it instates the partakers of it in the priviledges of the church of god , i answer , that though the dr. speaks right according to the right administration of baptism , yet according to his way of infant baptism it is not so , seeing we all know , infants ( while such ) though sprinkled have no more priviledge in your church then those who are not sprinkled , for the priviledges next following baptism , is to be taught to observe all things whatsoever christ commanded , and to continue in fellowship with the church in breaking of bread and prayer , acts 2 42. ma. 28. 20. now to tell us that infants are instated in these things , and yet whilst infants have nothing at all to do with them is too gross a vanity . for , if you say they are instated in these priviledges upon future contingences , viz. repentance , faith and newness of life according to the gospel , i answer when this comes to pass they are no infants , nor as infants partake of these priviledges , but as those that are now the sons of god by faith , and thus truly all infants are instated in church priviledges as soon as born , seeing by the death of christ they have a right upon the conditions of the gospel when capable to perform them , thus you mislead the world with a specious pretence of instating their infants in church priviledges , when 't is only an empty sound of words . but the jews infants as they were instated in the priviledges of their church , by circumision , so they entred upon the enjoyment of their priviledges in infancy , appearing by gods commandment three times a year in the temple with the offerings accustomed and to partake of the passeover , with the congregation or family where it was eaten . the dr. saith , nothing can seem wanting of the ends of baptism ( in respect of infants ) but that which seems most cerimonial which is the personal restipulation , which yet may reasonably be supplyed by sponsors , &c. that there is much wanting beside this restipulation in your infant baptism is shewed before , and it is unadvisedly said that the restipulation of the person baptised is the most ceremonial thing in baptism , seeing it is the moral and substantial part being indeed our covenanting with god and in truth the external washing is far more ceremonial as appears 1 pet. 3. 21. and for your saying that the personal restipulation in baptism may be reasonably supplyed by godf●thers , is very much below the reason of any christian to affirm ; but is it so ? that sponsors may supply the personal restipulation , which is the greater , then let them also supply the lesser , to wit sprinkling with water , which they can better perform , then the covenant they make for the infant , and then the whole business will appear to have the same reasonableness in every part ▪ viz , wholly unreasonable . thus much touching the capacity of infants ▪ &c. next the dr tells us , that in the institution of baptism there is neither direct nor consequential prohibition of infants to be baptized , and that there is nothing of that nature pretended before the 〈◊〉 comission , mat. 28. 19. but here is a mistake , and its strange he never observed that it hath often been demonstrated that , as when circumcision first appeared in the world , it clearly took in the infants of those to whom it was first given , so , accordingly it was propagated ; but when baptism first appeared in the world , it as clearly left out the infants of those to whom it was first ministred , and accordingly was propagated by the holy apostles ▪ insomuch that of the many thousands , and famous churches , that were baptised , all the world is not able to shew so much as one infant to have been baptised in any one of them , nor one word of precept for so doing , and if this be not so much as a consequential prohibition of infant baptism , i shall never believe that the dr. or any else can shew me so much as a consequential prohibition , of infants receiving the lords supper , the imposition of hands &c. and though the dr. consider never so much what apprehensions the apostles had concerning the church state of such as were in external covenant with god , yet he cannot rationally imagine that they should measure the state of the gospel churches by the reason of the covenant which god made with the jews and their seed according to the flesh . seeing it is expresly said from henceforth , to wit from the vanishing of the old covenant , know we no man after the flesh — but now if any man be in christ he is a new creature . and now men are not to be accounted of the church because they are abraham ▪ s seed , but they are accounted abraham ▪ s seed by being in the church of christ , gal. 3. 29. if ye be christs then are you abraham 's seed , and heirs according to promise . neither is it true that christ commanded his apostles to gather whole nations into churbes , as the dr. affirms , neither did the apostles gather any one whole nation , or city into a church s●ate that we read of , therefore churches consisting of whole nations , men , women and infants , are not apostollical but this the apostles did they taught many nations , 1. v. their sound went through many nations , not that they taught all manner of persons in the nations , for they taught no infants , and the persons by them gathered into the church , were only such as received their doctrine , as appears by those families where their gospel was received , the husband sometimes opposite to the wife , and otherwhiles the wife to the husband servants and masters likewise differing in the same family about christianity , 1. cor. 7. if then the apostles did not gather whole families into a church state unless they did wholly believe , act. 16. how-should any man imagine , they gathered whole nations ? the greatest part whereof by all experience are wicked persons yea in those very nations , which men pretend to have made into churches of christ of which would god england were not so full an evidence as it is this day . the dr. grants that the order of words mat. 28 , 19. ( teach all nations baptising them ) was necessary for those who were then to be proselited to christianity . and we say they are as necessary for the generations following , who have as much need of true faith and repentance ▪ or the first principles of christianity in order to their being christians , as them that went before , and it is a pernitious alteration of the order of christs commission , to out-run it●s direction so , as to make persons to be christians , before they do or can know the least title of christianity . the case which the dr. puts , about going to disciple the indians baptising them , is not at all rational , but upon the pre-supposition , that the person so doing , to have seen or known them , that gives him his authority to baptise infants , and then indeed it 's rational to suppose such a person would not understand that the words , disciple the indians baptising them , would exclude infants . but yet i must also say , that his ground to believe so could not arise from the words themselves but from the practice presupposed . wherefore the apostles having direction to teach all nations baptising them , without the least knowledge of any infants baptized by any baptists which were before them , or from whom they received their authority , here is no place for the drs. suppositions at all . as little cause hath he to think that had any one said to abraham he that believeth and is circumcised shall be saved , it ought so to have been interpreted , as that infants ought to be circumcized . for if this had been all the rule given for circumcision , it must of necessity have been limited to such as believe only , and unless the dr. know how from good ground to satisfie his conscience , that infants are believers of that which is taught or preached according to mark 16. ( which place he aludes unto ) he must so limit the diversion for baptising . but if indeed he take infants to be such believers , then he is answered by dr. hammond in his let. of resol . p. 297. who saith , as for the question whether infants have faith ? i profess my self to be none of those who are concerned in it . i freely confess to believe , faith to be so necessarily founded in understanding , that they that have not understandisg cannot have faith , whethe actual or habitual . the conclusion therefore is , sith in the case you put , the word ( believe ) cannot concern infants , and that they must be deemed capable of salvation , though they believe not , it is every way safe to think them unconcern●d in the other duty , that passage mark 16. 16. or any other like unto it notwithstanding . finally the dr. proposes five considerations about the suitableness of in●ant baptism to the administration of things under the gospel , and first he saith . 1. that if it had been christs intention to exclude infants , there had been far greater reason for an express prohibition then for an express command , if his intention were to admit them , because this was suitable to the general grounds of gods dispensation among them before . answer , here is little said but what hath been answered before , and may be answered by saying , had it been christs intention that infants should not be admitted to the lords table there had been more need of an express prohibition , &c. then of an express command , &c. because suitable to gods dispensations among them before . thus argumentum ad hominem . but i answer further , it is dangerous arguing to our present right to sacraments , from gods dispensations among the jews , seeing the state of the church , and the di●pensation is so much altered as that the former was but carnal , in respect of the spirituality of the other . 2. the dr. saith , it is very hard to conceive that the apostles thought infants excluded by christ , when after christs ascention they looked upon themselves bound to observe the jewish customes , even when they had baptized many thousands , answer , it is ill said that the apostles were bound to observe any such jewish customes because of any suitableness between them and things under the gospel ( which is the mark you ought to hit or you say nothing ) but the reason why they did observe such customes for a time , was the weakness of the jews , and we find the apostles did as speedily put a period to such customes as they could acts 15. 24. to 32. acts 1645. which clearly shews jewish customes was not suitable to things under the gospel , and here circumcision one of the chief of jewish rites , is clearly abolished among the rest , so that a man would think infant baptism should never have been built upon it . 3. the dr saith if admission of infants to baptism were a meer relique of judaism , it seems strange that none of the judaizing christians should be charged with it ; who yet are charged with the observation of other judaical r●tes .. answer , i find no man saying that infant baptism was a relique of judaism , save dr. hammond , and some from him , and he indeed would make believers baptism also a jewish relique whiles he teaches that the jews baptising proselites , and their children was the original , and the baptism ●f the christian church but the coppy , by which device he hath opened a gap to our late n●tionists to deprive the church of sacred baptism altogether , and hath done more to weaken the cause of infant baptism then any other of its favourites , in laying its foundation in jewish ceremonies , for which they had no clear command from god. but great is this truth of believers baptism , and will stand notwithstanding the injury done by dr. hammond , for it was no jewish rite , the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins was from heaven , mat. 21. 25. and the pharisees who ●ere ●ealous enough for jewish rites , rejcted holy baptism , which christ asfi●ms to be the counsel of god lu. 7. 30. and testifies out of the consciences of his enemies , that he that t●aches otherwise denyes john to be a prophet . this then is the thing that truly seems strange , that no mention is made of infant baptism , if indeed it was at all received in the christian church either as a jewish rite or otherwise , but not str●●●e at all that none is charged with it , seeing none can be named that held it . 4. since theie wish christians were so much offended saith the dr. at the neglect of circumcision , acts 21. can we in reason think they should quietly bear their children being wholly thrown out of the church , as they would have been , if neither admitted by circumcision nor baptism . answer , since the false apostles was so earnest to have the christians circumcise their children , it 's strange that none of the true apostles could or would quiet them by saying instead of infant circumcision you have infant baptism if indeed there had been any such thing practiced , for , this way went the apostle paul to still them , vvhen they would have brought the believers themselves under circumsion , col. two . telling the chriffians they vvere circumcised vvith the circumcision made vvithout hands , in putting off the body of the sins of the ▪ flesh by the circumcision of christ , buried vvith him in baptism , vvherein ye also are ●isen with him through the faith , &c. and why might not the jews as qui●tly take the non-admission of infants to baptism , as they so took the non-admission of them to the lords supper seeing they were formerly admitted to the passeover , nor i● it necessary to say , that though they were not admitted to either of these , that therefore they are wholly thrown out of the church ; for , if by church be meant the whole number of the saved , then are infants of the churchs for christ hath told us the kingdom of god belongs to infants , and thus were infants of the church before circumcision was for some thousands of years : but if by church be meant those only vvho are concerned in the actual profession of the gospel , in this respect i grant infants are not of the church , god having no vvhere required this of infants in his gospel . infants are novv as vvell as before the flood , vvithin the covenant of the gospel in respect of the grace of eternal life , but are not under the duties of the covenant , to vvit , repentance , faith baptism perseverance , &c. nor can my calling the whole number of the saved the church , and thus making infants a part thereof offend a protestant who is acquainted with protestant doctrines , seeing mr. rogers cath. doctrine p. 73. upon art. 19. of the church of england , do●h affirm , there is an invisible church , and takes all within the compass of ●his church who are elect , tryumphing or that shall tryumph in heaven dr. field takes into his definition of the church all the elect , of men or angels , caled , or not yet called . l. 1. c. 8. so that according to these defi●itions of the churc● , infants are not thrown out of the church though not of the number of the called , and consequently not that cause for the jews to complain , nor any other which the dr. doth imagine ; unless they be not acquainted with the extent of the covenant of gods grace in christ iesus our lord. five , the doctor lastly tells us , that had it been contrary to christs institution ( to baptise infants ) we should not have had such evidence of it's early practice in t●e church , and here i acknowledge the use of apostolical tradition to manifest this to us . answer , this is altogether unlike a protestant : what are the sacraments so darkly laid down in the scripture that vve knovv not vvhen and to vvhom they belong vvithout tradition ? but vvhen shall vve see this tradition apostolical , i think doctor ta●lor expresly denies there is any tradit apostolical . lib. proph●si . p. 117. 120. but the doctor cannot but knovv there be errou●s ●vhich crept into the church even in the apostles days , vvhich also continued in some of them , notvvithstanding all endeavours to purge them , such vvere circumcision and keeping the lavv. or if we list to reckon vvith records of antiquity , 't is easi● o show some things held by papists and opposed by the doctor are better proved by tradi●ion then infant baptism , for example the lent fast ond prayer for the dead , this is not denyed by mr. perkins demonst . prob . what then shall be gained to the protestant religion by such traditional arguments . it is a notable saying of irenae●s ( according to dr. fulk ) wsen the hereticks are reproved out of the scriptures they ●all to accusing the scriptures as if all is not well in them — and that the truth cannot be found out of them that know not the tradition . and saith tertul , ( according to dr. fulk ) take away those things from the hereticks , which they hold with ethnicks , that they may stay their questions upon scripture only . finis . errata . p. 3. l. 5. r. is right , p. 4. l. 25. r. of a midwife p. 5. l. 34. for these r. those p. 7. l. 27. for others r. overs . a vindication of that part of spira's despair revived which is challenged by the anabaptists, and shamefully callumniated by john wells, a baptist preacher : wherein also some things are handled relating to infant baptism and dipping in baptism : particularly it is evinced that dipping is not essential to the sacrament of baptism / by thomas james, author of spira's despair revived. james, thomas. 1695 approx. 99 kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from 21 1-bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : 2007-10 (eebo-tcp phase 1). a46634 wing j437 estc r32366 12648054 ocm 12648054 65213 this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons 0 1.0 universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase 1, no. a46634) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set 65213) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, 1641-1700 ; 1528:24) a vindication of that part of spira's despair revived which is challenged by the anabaptists, and shamefully callumniated by john wells, a baptist preacher : wherein also some things are handled relating to infant baptism and dipping in baptism : particularly it is evinced that dipping is not essential to the sacrament of baptism / by thomas james, author of spira's despair revived. james, thomas. james, thomas. spira's despair revived. [6], 32 p. printed for john lawrence ..., london : 1695. imperfect: pages cropped with some loss of print. reproduction of original in the union theological seminary library,new york. created by converting tcp files to tei p5 using tcp2tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between 1473 and 1700 available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the 25,363 texts created during phase 1 of the project have been released into the public domain as of 1 january 2015. anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. 5% (or 5 pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of 100 instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level 4 of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p5, characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng anabaptists -england -controversial literature. infant baptism. 2005-11 tcp assigned for keying and markup 2005-11 aptara keyed and coded from proquest page images 2006-09 taryn hakala sampled and proofread 2006-09 taryn hakala text and markup reviewed and edited 2007-02 pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion a vindication of that part of spira's despair revived which is challenged by the anabaptists and shamefully callumniated by john wells , a baptist preacher . wherein also some things are handled relating to infant baptism , and dipping in baptism , particularly it is evinced , that dipping is not essential to the sacrament of baptism . by thomas james , author of spira's despair revived london : printed for john lawrence , at the angel in the poultrey , 1695. to those inhabitants of ashford and the adjacent parishes , who attend upon my ministry . beloved christians ; the dedication of these few sheets of my vindicatio● is due to you ; and it would be a crime to prefix any ●ther name or names : you are concerned with me in th● matters here spoken to ; and your concern is little le●● than that of my own ; yea upon some accounts it is evident●● greater : you have also some knowledge of these things ; yea som● of you do know the truth of what i write , to your exceedin● great grief and sorrow . this neighbourhood hath of a long tim● been the seat of many anabaptists ; and the stirs they have mad● have not been small ; witness that disputation held in the paris● church july 27. 1649. between fisher and several ministers , b●fore some thousands of hearers ( about three thousand , as th● printed relation telleth us it was guessed ) and a late one b●tween them and my predecessour ; and they have not come short 〈◊〉 my time , having urged me to the same , though i have answere● them only with contempt of their challenge . the reflection i made touching their troubling weak and unst●ble souls , and their practices of this kind , are matters well know● to many of you : every day discovers how restless they are 〈◊〉 turn some or other of you away from the faith you profess , an● to make you renounce your first baptism . vpon these account 〈◊〉 judge it a part of my ministry , which i have received in th● lord , to watch over you , and to preserve you from those seducer● and if i should not take all occasions to warn , to exhort , and i●struct you , i am afraid i should not fulfil the same . beware of ●hem therefore , and be not terrified and dismay'd at their bold and desperate speeches , cavilling at , and condemning infant-bap●ism as a new doctrine , a scriptureless thing , as antichristian ; which yet was practised many hundred of years before the name of anabaptists , or baptists ( being taken for a society of people opposing infant baptism ) was ever known in the world , and long before the man of sin was ever revealed . but why should ●ou be afraid to have your children baptized , when christ shewed his love to those lambs , by taking them in his arms and blessing them ; and the holy ghost makes no difference be●ween them and the oldest disciples , calling them holy , and saying , the promises equally belong to them ; and god to where in all his word forbids you to dedicate them in baptism , or refuseth them ? let them shew you that scripture , if they can , which forbids children to be baptized . what , hath god less love for your children than for those of his old people the jews ? is his mercy clean gone from our ●hildren ? is he not the god of the christians also ? yes ve●ily the same god in covenant ; for he is a god keeping cove●ant and mercy with his people ; whose people we are if we be●ieve on jesus christ his son ; and we are children of abra●am , to whom circumcision was given as a seal of the covenant ●od made with him and his seed ; to which baptism now answers ; christ changing the two old sacraments , circumcision and the passo●er , into baptism and the lord's supper , the subjects of them ●ho were to receive spiritual benefit and priviledge thereby ●eing still the same . many things i know they have written to ●isprove this ; but i seriously profess , that their distinctions and ●ub distinctions about circumcision being a seal to abraham , and ●ot to his seed ; the two covenants god made with him , & c. ●●re so handled by them in some of their books scattered among us , ●hat i can hardly understand them , and wonder how they could render ●●ich plain matters so intricate . but until they can shew you ●ow god makes a difference between children under the law and the gospel , taking theirs in , and leaving ours out , why should yo● keep your children back from the priviledge of so blessed a sacrament , or seek a new baptism for your selves ? as for the point of dipping , can you , dare you lay the stress of the efficacy of a sacrament wholly upon the quantity of water , as though the application of more , or in another way than sprinkling or pouring● could profit you so exceedingly ? or , must you needs be adult , and profess yo● faith , as though the vertue of the sacrament did wholly consist in what you do , and nothing in the grace of god 〈◊〉 cannot god bless his own ordinance to infants ? beware , i be●seech you , least you should provoke god , by limiting him after thi● manner , and scandalize your brethren , and all the reformed churches of christ , even the purest of them ( as that of the wa●denses , now commonly called vaudois , who were never tainte● with any corruption of antichrist , but certainly the most pur● and apostolical in the world ) who baptize infants , and generall● apply the element of baptism some other way than by dipping as by pouring it on , sprinkling , &c. but , i pray , what do yo● see in these men that you should think the word of god came only to them ? what power and demonstration of the spirit is ther● in their preaching ? what holiness and exemplariness in the●● lives more than others , to convince you that they are the peop●● of god above others ? i do not go about to set you against their persons , or societies , and therefore say nothing that may tend to the●● reproach , but i am shewing you how vain it is to believe eve●● word they say , to prevent your being insnared by their confident boasting of things they are never able to prove . let me speak 〈◊〉 some of you in the words of the apostle ; be no more childre● tossed to and fro , and carried about with every wind of doctrin● by the● slight of men , and cunning craftiness , whereby the he in wait to deceive : and i do earnestly exhort you all , to a●tend to that gospel precept , if it be possible , as much as ●●th 〈◊〉 you , live peaceably with all men ; live peaceably even wi●● these men ; as they are neighbours live in love ; let not the● questions and strivings about matters of this or any other natu●● imbitter your spirits , and provoke you to speak unadvisedly , much less to be guilty of any misbehaviour in your actions ; rather pity them , and pray for them : they are their own enemies-many ways , especially their childrens , whom they debarr of many blessed priviledges ; therefore pray for them , and be at peace with them : the strange divisions of the land of our nativity is a sorrowful consideration to all that fear god , and are by no means unnecessarily to be widened : i could upon this account be content most gladly to be silent ; but my own defence , and your security , will excuse my vndertaking : but truly i had rather appear among you in the pulpit than in print ; and had rather speak five words to edification than ten thousand in a way of endless controversie . as for you , my brethren , believe the promises , observe the institutions , and obey the words and commandments of our lord jesus christ , and keep your selves pure , that none may be able to speak evil of you , or to reproach your good conversation ; this will give you peace , and end in your everlasting happiness . for this i make my prayers to god for you ; as also that he would stablish , strengthen , settle you ; hoping to approve my self a faithful minister of christ unto you in all things , desiring and endeavouring your eternal salvation , as i am your friend and servant in the work of the ministry , thomas james . from my study , june 25 , 1695. a vindication , &c. on may 21. i received a letter with a printed book inclosed , being entituled , a reply to that part of spira's despair revived , in which the baptists in general are concerned ; but more especially those at ashford in kent . &c. upon reading of the same , i find it such as may , if unanswer'd , turn to my great disgrace and contempt ; yea , and not only so , but it may be a means to invalidate that evidence which i have brought in that spira revived for the truths of the blessed gospel , witnessing against the atheistical principles of this age : and yet further , this shameful reply ( for so it shall quickly be detected ) is dedicated to the honourable lord wharton , seeking patronage from so great and worthy a person , and so abusing of his name . these things have such weight with them , besides what else i shall offer toward the conclusion , that though some are for my silence altogether ( it being hardly worth while to answer such ignorant and clamorous persons , my own integrity , through the grace of god , being well known , and no ways obnoxious to their slanders , being not likely , i mean , to suffer any dimution in my credit and reputation here upon ) yet i cannot forbear , being so nearly concerned , and especially for the truth 's sake , to write a few lines , and publish a short answer in order to so just and necessary a vindication . now , that i may not be tedious , being indeed under a temptation thereto , writing in so just a cause , in defence of the truth and my credit , which are exposed in a shameful manner by that reply , i will confine my pen with in these narrow bounds , to write but of three things ; one concerning the person who makes the reply , and the manner of it ; th●● next concerning the charge which is brought against what i formerly published in that spira , so far as it respected the anabaptists which consists of two parts ; one concerning the poor melancholy distracted man , r. m. and his tragical end ; which gave me occasion to reflect on the anabaptists , as those that did him some wrong , troubling him with their notions about the necessity of rebap●●zation ( or being dipped ) which prov'd injurious to him in his weakness and strange confusion of mind : the other concerning what i have written of their practising the like upon many others in much like cases , troubling the weak and unsetled christians , eagerly urging them to be dipt , and , as i said , making it a salve for every sore . in doing this i will consider the most material passages in that piece , laying open the ignorance and injustice of the publisher , the several slanders , falshoods , and such other things as make it appear to the world , that what i wrote of the anabaptists , so far as i had knowledge of them , was true and sincere ; and that their reply is a mere slander , and bold and impudent denial and contradiction ; whereas they have nothing to object in truth and sobriety . the first thing which i consider , and is very material , is the person who makes the reply , and goes about to lay grievous matters to my charge , as though i had wickedly forged all i have written against the anabaptists . in the conclusion ( p. 23. ) he writes thus of himself and the matter : sir , i am a stranger to you , n. b. and to the whole matter , any otherwise than as i meet it in your book ( and some friends ●ear you gives some account ) which hath loaded us with a greater weight ●han is fit to be born . now surely this is a strange thing , and most unrighteous , unjust , and , it may be , unparalell'd , for a person who owns himself a perfect stranger to me ( as indeed he was , and is ) upon the reporting a matter to him , to write and print at ●his rate against me . what , a stranger to the whole matter , and yet to print at this confident rate , aspersing , and slandring me for what i have written ; and yet he knows not but it may be all true ; as indeed it is , and will be made appear ? but mr. wells , ( for i think he that is a preacher , and is entrusted to print on the behalf of his brethren , may deserve this title ; though what he is , or his quality or calling i know not ) was told what i had written was all false ; and of this some friends gave him an account : what then , is mr. wells's pen become mercenary ? and will he be a champion for his friends , right or wrong , though perchance he fight against the truth ? how is it otherwise than so , seeing he knew not the contrary , never hearing but one side ? but surely charity should have believed better , and ●oped better of a man of whom he knew nothing ; and i have reason to think that no crime was laid to my charge by his friends ( and mine adversaries ) save only , i charged them thus and thus ; and i cannot else imagine how he comes to give me that honest title of worthy sir. strange , that he should print against me , and declare peremptorily to the world , that i was guilty of all the evil he says of me , and not first vouchsafe to send a few lines , and enquire whether i could make any defence for my self , or had any thing to say before he pass'd sentence , and openly condemn'd me : what , did he think i had nothing indeed to say , not one word ; no evidences to be produced , nor any proofs of what i had alledged ? that good old sentence , audi alteram partem , which was ever esteemed so necessary a rule in judgment , is quite laid aside , and not at all regarded ; it seems mr. wells never thought of it , and , to speak the truth , i vehemently suspect he never knew it . should a judge sentence a man upon report only of his accusers , never examining him , nor hearing what he had to say for himself , it would , no doubt , be construed the greatest piece of injustice and cruelty : such as that of king james the first ; who coming out of scotland to london to take the crown of england , first discover'd his disposition to arbitrary government , saith my author at newark ; for being told that one had cut a purse in newark , the king , without any legal process , or the defence of the party , signed a warrant to the sheriff of lincolnshire to hang him , which was executed accordingly : and this , saith he , was a blot in the scutcheon of king james the first . the romans were so just as never to put any man to death in this manner . this is indeed against the very light of nature , to judge and condemn upon meer reports , without hearing the other side . not only life , but a good name are too precious to be cast away at this rate . one would think that mr. well 's never went to a latin school , or was read in such authors , or how could he but have called to mind that golden sentence of seneca , qui statuit aliquid parte inaudita altera , aequam licet statuerit , haud aequus fuerit ? had his sentence been just , yet without hearing first what i had to say for my self , it had been unjust from him . but still they were some friends gave him this account . were his friends therefore infallible ? could they not possibly misinform him ? what an implicite faith was this ? how just like the proceedings of the spanish inquisition ? the tribunal erected de propaganda fide ! wherein the accusers are examined in secret ; and the poor prisoner is a stranger to all that passeth , till they begin to thunder against him , and proceed to torture , and sentence , and execution . but might not these men , my accusers to mr. wells , after so many months running to and fro , and stirring in the matter , at last give in some false evidence ? i am sure they did , and that notoriously , as i will evince by and by ; and i will perswade my self , having so much charity for him , that mr. wells will own it . had but the letter he had sent me with his book , been sent but some months before , his pains and trouble might have been spared , and his credit saved ; whereas now , he hath brought himself into a snare , to gratifie his friends , who impos'd upon his credulity , so that he prints gross falsehoods , never seeking to clear the matters to himself , before he set pen to paper . how vain was it for him to write thus to me in his private letter ; worthy sir , it s very unpleasant to me to be troublesome to any , but i cannot well avoid giving you the trouble of these lines . alas ! the trouble of reading a letter is not much ; but surely it would trouble any christian to be thus slandered in print ; especially when writing a few lines a little sooner , and taking that small trouble , might have prevented so great calumnies : what was this but to shoot secretly at me , and also to wound me openly , and then to desire me not to be troubled , because he is so kind to tell me what he hath done ? like those rude persons , who cry , by your leave , sir , when they have first shewed you some incivility , or done a man some diskindness . but then he desires me not to take unkindly what he hath printed ; for , saith he , i have been as tender of you as the matter will bear ; but if you suppose ▪ me to be mistaken , assign wherein , and i shall , god , willing , labour to give you satisfaction , &c. great tenderness indeed ! and a wonderful care not to grieve me with what was printed : but wherein doth it appear ? resolved , it seems , he was , or his friends rather ( for he saith in his reply , p. last , he was sure he did it unwillingly ) or both were so resolv'd and eager to expose me in print . but what satisfaction shall i now have ? will mr. wells confess his fault as publickly , and declare himself in an errour ? yea , that he hath wronged an innocent person , and a stranger ? that he hath traduced me in a very shameful manner ? that he hath acted most unadvisedly , hand , over head , as we say ) and very unchristianly , not seeking out the truth , as he ought , and easily might , before he past sentence , and condemned me openly ? truly , at the first of my books coming forth , and the noise and speeches of the anabaptists about me , threatning grievously , i did expect something in print ( for what do they not dare to do of this nature , yea and delight in it also ? ) but when it had lain by so many months , i was a little surprized to find it done ; but especially to be managed by a stranger , whose name i know not , i ever heard before , i read it in his letters ; nay , i find , by their own confession , he is a stranger to those very men ( some at least , by the confession of one of them to me ) who set him on work ( i. e ) him , or any body else could be procured . if my neighbours could not write themselves ( and yet three of them are teachers , and one hath been offering at it , scribling out many sheets in the point of controversie ) nor find a man nearer than london , yet surely he should have considered better with himself , and not have been so hardy , as to have written in a case wherein he knew not one thing or other ; not the person accused , nor what defence he could make , and how he could justifie himself , and make good his charge , only being informed by those whose interest it was to blast what i had written . when the apostle paul had heard of the disorders in the church of corinth , how doth he write to them about it 〈…〉 why thus ; when ye come together in the church , i hear that there b● divisions among you ; and i partly believe it : he partly believed what he only heard by report ; but mr. wells roundly takes up the matter reported to him by his friends against me , and believes every word which the wise man brands for simplicity : the simple , saith he , believes every word . ah! mr. wells , had you acted mor● charitably , and cautiously , you had not discover'd your self so fa 〈…〉 nor done me this wrong ; your folly had not been manifested nor had i suffered so much as this groundless suspicion of evil doing , which you prompt the world to , as you have represented m● ▪ but i hope mr. wells will pardon me that i bear so hard upon him for my vindication doth not a little depend upon it , though yet have clear proofs to produce also . it was not only folly and injustice in mr. wells to do thus ; but it may be a sufficient argumen● to the world , that what he hath written against me is of n● value ; for they were my adversaries who gave him instruction● ( surely it was so , and he did not write of himself ) and he prin● only upon hear-say from such as bestirr'd themselves to throw o●● the charge was laid against them . but now if mr. wells thin● or pretend that i have done him wrong in all this , as though he ha● only written to enquire into the truth , as he saith in his preface ▪ his great end is to find out the offenders , and that this is his great enquiry , let him know that therein he doth abuse his readers , and suggest falsehoods in so saying : for his very title confutes him ; it is this ? a brief reply , &c. wherein the unjust charge of mr. thomas james against them ( i. e. the baptists ) is removed : n. b. is removed : what doth this imply , but that he hath clear'd the matter fully ? proved his party innocent ; convincing me of falshood in all i have written ; making me a slanderer , a lyar , and what not ? but more fully yet , after the preface to the reader , in the title again , a brief reply , &c. wherein he hath falsely charged them , n. b. as will appear in the following discourse . i pray in what page or line is this appearance found ? where are the proofs ? is there any thing shewed , but only confidently said , and a gainsaying of what i had written ? let impartial readers judge if mr. wells's book do not center in this , and all he brings be only a contradicting the matters i published , and averring that i wrote not a word of truth . if his title had run after this manner , ( and he had kept to it ) a challenge to mr. j. to prove what he hath printed against the anabaptists about ashford , it had been tolerable ; but to talk of making all appear , is like the rest of his piece . thus he stumbles in the threshold , and that is very ominous for him ; for he falls worse and worse ever after ( beginning with a very foul lye , as i shall shew by and by , and ending with a passage that overthrows all he writes . ) just so it is with his dealing with the text of scripture ; a text in the very next place , which he ●ets before the main work ( i hope he handles his texts to more purpose before his congregation , ) prov. 18. 17. he that is first in his own cause , seemeth just ; but his neighbour cometh and search●th him . a mighty search ! and because my neighbours gave him ●ome account , very pat to the case in hand no doubt : but for the ●earch , if mr. wells had come to ashford , he might have searched ●ut somewhat , enough i am sure to have stopp'd his hand ; but ●o search this matter at london was ridiculous . he search'd , it ●eems , with his friend's eyes , and ears ; and so he finds just as ●uch as they of the matter , ( i. e. ) whatever they would have . what , a stranger to the whole matter , and yet search it out ! for ●ame , mr. wells write to be believed ; i thought hearing a re●ort was not searching : at this rate we may search out many things 〈◊〉 these times of war , with a great deal of ease , what is done in ●landers , france , spain , turkey , and where not ? but if you trust reports , you may be miserably deceived , though the news be told as confidently as your friends could tell you this matter : one cries victory , and makes bonfires , and sings te deum ; and yet it may be comes off with the loss : another saith nothing was done ; and it may be it was a great action : i think when we search to know the truth , we do more than hear what parties in the case say , and interested persons say of it : not that i think it is impossible to know the truth by one party , and examining witnesses on one side ; but when life or credit are at stake , it is highly unjust to go this way , to believe all that is said , and then boldly tell the world in print , i have searched out the whole matter , and he is a slanderer , &c. there is one thing further concerning mr. wells's carriage , which i observe , and then dismiss this head ( sc . ) how unchristianly , how uncharitably he carried it . why should he , being a stranger to me , and the whole matter , believe his ashford friends against me altogether , when he saw my design in writing that little piece was good ; and that wherein i reflected on their carriage , it was done so candidly , as though i were unwilling to say what i said out of a respect to them ? let the reader consider it , if i did not write candidly , and express'd the matter with moderation . these are the words i began the reflection with ; 't is beside my purpose to make reflections upon persons of any opinion or persuasion in religion , besides atheists , who are its avowed enemies . the anabaptists ( or baptists , as they rather chuse to call themselves ) are men to whom i bear no such grudge , or envy , as to bring up any evil report upon them , as a calumny or unjust accusation : god forbid , that while i am writing for christianity , i should act so contrary to one of its principles , as to do thus : they are christians , and will , i doubt not , espouse this cause of our lord with my self ; and there are some of them my worthy good friends , pious , judicious persons ; but this i must publish upon this sad occasion ; and i pray god the guilty would consider it , &c. if this were not courteous , candid , charitable , what is ? yea , mr. wells doth own it sometimes , though he forgets what he writ at other times ; for he calls it flattery , and a meer pretence , p. 16 , 17. which shews what he could not but think of it , that it was very fair , only he judges my heart , and acts uncharitably , rendring me evil for good : for i seriously protest , i wrote this out of good will , and not fawningly . but because this is the proper place , i cannot but take notice of his ignorance also , in quarrelling , and thinking to fasten a reproach upon me for pretending christian friendship to the anabaptists , and stiling them my pious and judicious friends , and yet at the same time publishing such matters against them ; this he observes , p. 16 , 17. once and again . now this , i say , is gross ignorance in mr. wells , or worse , that he could not , or would not distinguish and see the difference i made between some and others of the anabaptists , between the innocent and guilty , and those who were my friends and others . i said plainly thus , they are christians , &c. and then i declare of some of them thus ; and there are some of them my worthy good friends , pious , and judicious persons then ; and i pray god the guilty would consider it : now all this he jumbles together , and makes all the anabaptists my worthy , pious , and judicious friends ; and then wonders that i dealt so by them , as to accuse them thus ; and is not this tragical , saith he , to cut the throat of your friends reputation ? but surely mr. wells is no logician , or the meanest ever known , who cannot distinguish , nor perceive a difference in so plain a case , not to apprehend that some hath others for its opposite ; yea , that some imports a few out of many in such sentences as these : but whether he knew it or no , he hath hapned upon an unlucky fallacy in logick ( which is his natural logick it seems , and i would not have him proud of it ) to compound what should be divided , to huddle all together , and so to impose a wrong sense ; whereas it is true taken distinctly and apart as it ●ought : and what is more common than to speak of a multitude , and not to mean every individual of them . what will he think of st. paul when he affirmed that to be true of the cretians , which one of their own poets had written of them : the cretians are always lyars , evil beasts , slow bellies ( 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . epimenides . ) this witness is true , saith he . what , every man , woman and child in crete lyars , beastly , and slothful , pagans and christians too ? no sure , but it was vitium gentis , an epidemical evil , a fault they were too much guilty of : as if i should say , the patriarchs were guilty of poligamy ; yet not all therefore , not isaac , &c. but what would mr. wells think at this rate of that place were it is said , the disciples had indignation at the ointment pour●d on christ's head ? would he condemn them all for judas , of whom it is written ? and calumniate the holy text , as je 〈…〉 me tells us some did in his days ( nescientes tropum qui vocatur 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , quo & pro uno omnes , & pro multis unus appellari soleat ) not knowing it was a figurative expression . however , to satisfie him and his friends , i will explain my self , and declare my own sense , though it be plain enough i called all of them christians , and some my friends , and some guilty ; i count the anabaptists in general christians , but some few of them i called my friends , pious and judicious persons ; but i will assure him , those whose practices i have known about ashford , and written against , i account none of this sort ; and whoever acts in like manner , as far as i have knowledge thereof , shall for ever be discharged by me of that character , pious and judicious . but it is time to leave mr. wells himself . come we now to the matters of fact : and here he urgeth wonderfully , to assign the person or persons guilty of what i charge the baptists with : thus in the epistle dedicatory , in the letter to me printed before the body of the reply , and in the reply it self , at every turn he urgeth this ; and if i should fail herein he commends it to my lord wharton to see that publick satisfaction be given ; and to my church to take a course with me . but now , what if the case do not require all this ? what if it be not necessary or convenient ? what , must a minister tell the anabaptists , and all the world , what every one in trouble discover'd to him ? must he publish the names of every one concerned ? it may be an husband or wife is concerned , parents and children , masters and servants , and the circumstances are such that it is no ways fit or meet to name or assign persons ; possibly it may breed variance and strife , and promote great disorders in families , and in the neighbourhood : it may be some nabals are concerned , some shimei's , who would trouble their own houses , and fill the town with raillery . may not a minister spare names in such a case , but he must be cryed down for one that spreads slanders ? but it seems mr. wells and his friends care not what becomes of any person , nor consider what is meet and fit , what mischief they pull down upon others heads , so they may but salve their own credit , as they would perswade themselves : but , i doubt not , the world will judge this an extravagant request , to urge the printing the names of private persons : and indeed i cannot conceive what good it will do those who know not these parts , to read the names of strange places and persons , which will sound as harsh as greek and hebrew perchance to mr. wells . as for those of their own party who did these evil things , i am sensible they have their evasions to cast off the reproach , ( and it is likely they lie upon the catch ) such an one is none of them ; such an one they own not ; though it may be a teacher , or an old anabaptist , persons certainly dipped , and baptists , or nothing . but so it is , many times they shift the matter off thus ; and , as the historian said of some enemies , difficilius est invenies quàm vincere . but is not this crying out for assigning persons a mere artifice , to be so impatient of this kind of proof , and so long a time laps'd since the matter was first published ; and since 〈◊〉 concerned to give their testimony are their own friends ? and who will doubt but that by this time they are taught their lesson , to speak but sparingly , not the whole truth , or so fully as to prejudice their own cause ? but i do but shew how vain it is for mr. wells to urge this assigning persons ; they need not encourage themselves to hope to escape by this stratagem : proofs i have to produce sufficient and abundant , and yet will be sparing of names , even of the most criminal . first , as for the case of that poor melancholy man , r. m. who made that tragical exit . the case , as far as i am conscerned , was this : one of the same name , and of his kindred , desired me to go and visit him upon the account of his deplorable condition ; and he importuned me not a little , using this as a special argument , that he was continually assaulted by the anabaptists , who in this weakness of body and mind were like to work their will upon him . upon this i went once ( and never more ) and my carriage was as i printed in the narrative of his condition ; and in discoursing with me , he did declare himself in such a manner , tht i was satisfied that the opinion of the anabaptists about rebaptization was a great trouble and vexation to him . it is now several years since my being with him at that time ( about five years since , his death was about four years and an half , and his trouble lasted about three quarters of a year , as i have learnt from his sister , a baptist , who lived all the time with him ; ) and so i think no wise man will expect i should be positive as to the words of our discourse ; truly my memory is not so happy ; yea , i am sorry the matter is so far gone from me ; for i am sure he spake so much as made that clear to me , which was a motive to carry me to him . ( sc . ) that he was troubled about the anabaptists doctrine of dipping ; and that his infant baptism was null ; and that he must be rebaptized . now , what if i could not find out one baptist had been with him ? can it be thought when his sister who kept his house was one of them , that in all his trouble none came near him ? no , not when he had follow'd them formerly , and now in his trouble return'd to hear them again , as mr. wells tells us , p. 15. and his own sisters owned to me . surely what i learn'd from himself was a thousand witnesses to me , and what was clear enough by other circumstances . but see how it pleaseth god to put them to shame , and to condemn them out of their own mouth . one of their teachers ( one of the three who was with me upon the account of my book , did own to us , that he was with him the same day , or the very next , after my being there , and that he discoursed with him of these matters , and that he urged believers baptism to him ( meaning dipping upon profession of faith. ) now supposing no more evidence could be produced ; yet upon this alone , how shameful was it for mr. wells to publish thus , p. 11. first , we observe , that you were the only man that visited , discoursed , and advised this poor man in his deplorable estate ; and p. 11. mr. james was the man chiefly concerned with him in his hurry and trouble of mind ; but to the end he may not be thought remiss , and the better to seem clear , he finds out some to be mentioned , that , he says , did so much wrong . o shameful ! was ever any matter turned so fouly against another ? what , when i was desired to visit him by one of his kindred , pitying his condition ; when a minister was carried to visit a poor disturbed man , must he therefore suffer in his reputation ; and have the odium of all cast upon him ? but , alas ! 't is too plain for them , that he was wounded by the anabaptists ; and i found him with an arrow shot in , sticking fast , and tormenting him ; and to keep him in their bonds , one of their teachers , as himself owned , and is certain , is with him the same day ( for so the woman , his baptist sister is positive , though he were not ) urging believers baptism : whether he were there accidentally or not , or upon design , i know not ; but there he was , and discoursed ; and advised him . yea , further , at another time , as the woman confessed to me in presence of a gentleman who accompanied me to her house , june 12. there was one f — another teacher among them , who visited him , and had private discourse with him about an hour which f — ; saith another sister , he was carried to hear preach , and shewed some uneasiness as he went , and , as she judged , she was dissatisfied ; but one of the neighbours , a baptist , and his sister , she found going along with him ; which neighbour had been at the house , and , she doubts not , brought him thither ; and out of pity to him in his condition she went along with him also , and heard the same man. yet mr. wells saith , we observe , that you were the only man that visited , discoursed , and advised this poor man in his deplorable estate : what will the world think of this ? what can they ? to begin his reply thus , first , we observe : truly , if you observe at this rate , you may observe first , secondly , thirdly , and infinitely , even as far as you please , or can invent . but , mr. wells , did you observe this at london by your selfe , or did your ashford friends give you these instructions ? if you did it alone , it was a wonderful observation indeed ; you had better eyes than lynceus , and more surely than argus ; but if your friends gave you this instruction , it was so much the worse : for one of them , ( as another confest to me ) whose hand was to the letter to get a reply set forth , was one who confest that he was with the man in his trouble , and discoursed , and advised him : so then here are two of your teachers found to be with him ; and who will not think but there were others also of your opinion in the space of about nine months of his illness ? but , again , i pray , mr. wells , how was i conversant with him , as you write , p. 14. when i never spake to him but that one time in my life ? never but once in his company , so as to be able to discourse with him ? i had thought , to be conversant , had implied a familiarity and frequenting a persons company ; so that this is no good english , and that is the best interpretation of it , or i know not how to excuse the same from a falshood . but i begin to grow weary of tracing our these slanders , and untruths ; i will take notice only of one thing more ( about the case of this r. m. ) and dismiss this head : and really it is a sad thing , to consider how these men strive and struggle , and are restless till they entangle themselves , and write and print at that rate that doth ill become christians , whom i was willing , and desire yet to own as such . pray , reader , now observe what follows in these words , p. 15. mr. james bestirs himself to persuade him , that his infant baptism was true baptism , n. b. and to go to town to board , and make use of a physician of his own way , and to bear him ; which was done : but the poor man grew weary , not liking the means that was used . and it seems , and as he told his sister , that they were in a consult what to do about him ( one day ) and , unexpected to them , he over-heard them ; and one said , he was in love ; and another said , he had not a dram of true grace ; but he , hearing this , it made an addition to his weak disturbed head , n. b. and gets away , and relates the matter to his sister , and so waxes worse and worse , till at last he ends his life . for my part , when i read and consider this i am amazed ; so many lyes in one story ! such falshoods sent forth so bare-fac'd ! if my neighbours gave these instructions to their brother wells , they are what i never took them to be ; if he printed it of himself , it is little better in him . did i design a large answer , here is a large field for it , and matter enough for one of no great parts to work upon , enough to wind and toss , and for ever shame mr. wells , and all his friends who have acted in this business : surely some body owed them an ill turn , and secretly wrought it this way . but however it were , and though my neighbours might deserve most , yet i must keep to mr. wells only ; and truly he hath discovered himself all along to be an unaccountable writer : once before , he observed that i was the only man was with r. m. during his trouble of mind ; this he saw , it seems , at london ; there he could tell who went in and out , and discoursed him ; and here he saw him at board at ashford ; which no creature in ashford ever saw , no , not any of his anabaptist friends ; since mr. wells sent out this strange relation , we have ask'd his friends here , and they are ignorant of the matter : when i discoursed his sister , the baptist , who was his house-keeper , she only said , she thinks he was one night at ashford at his cousins , r. m. ( the person who carried me over to visit him ) and her son who went with him , will say , he was : but the family deny it , and all say it was no such thing , and are certain he never lodged there one night , he dined indeed one day there ( as they tell me ) and went up into a chamber , and lay down on a bed to refresh him ; but never lay one night in their house . but suppose it , that he were one night in town ; what is this to boarding , and being there a time , consisting of some days at least ; and getting away from thence , as though he were under some confinement in the use of means for his recovery ? well , it seems mr. wells is good at invention , and that is a notable part of an orator ; but it is just as his natural logick i observed before : i dare say , no master of rhetorick did ever teach him to invent after this manner : aristotle , cicero , quintilian , &c ▪ would have been ashamed of it , though they were heathens : and though we may sometimes conceal truth , and this we have presidents in scripture for , yet neither the light of nature , nor the written word , will allow us to forge after this manner . but who made this officious lye i know not , only this i observe , that because they would print somewhat , and had little to go upon ( nothing in truth ) therefore they have set up all this sail , and run themselves a ground . mr. james bestirs himself , saith he ; strange , that one visit , and but a very short one , should be a bestirring a man's self , when it was but a few miles off , and the man lay so long in trouble , that i might have been there many scores of times for one , or as oft as some of my adversaries take occasion to talk with those they hope to bring over to their opinion . but what did i persuade him him to ? why , to go to town to board : just as much as to go to london ( or elsewhere ) to be dipt by mr. wells ; of whose name , at that time , i know not that i had ever heard : and , how should any know that i perswaded him to such a thing as this ? my friend with me , who heard all our discourse , is a perfect stranger to it ; and his sister declares , she heard nothing of all we said . but now , least i do them wrong , and give not the true sense and meaning of the words ; and to do mr. wells wrong , ( though indeed it would prove well for him if he had only written false english , and mistook in the sense ) i appeal to all englishmen , and desire every reader to say , if this be not the true meaning of the words , that i perswaded the man ( r. m ) to go to town to board , and make use of a physician of my own way , which was done ( i. e. the man took my counsel , and came to ashford to board ) and while he was here , after sometime ( longer or shorter it matters not , so it be allowed to be but some days , for so he writes , of one day ) while they were consulting together ( surely he means the physician and my self ; for he mentioned no other before , and his sense carries it this way ) he heard them say thus and thus ; and so he gets away . now if i have given his sense right , and understand his english ; which surely is even so , if mr. wells write intelligibly , then here is a wild romance , and a tale told , and a foul pack of lyes , and all to make me ridiculous . but i would fain know , who of all ashford town can say , that ever r. m. was here at board , during his melancholy ? what anabaptist can stand forth , and help mr. wells , or his friends , out of this mire ? in whose house did he board or lodge ? as for my own part , i protest i do not know , nor can i call to mind that ever i saw that poor man but once at his own house , and once or twice while i was in the pulpit : but that the doctor and my self should ever discourse of him thus , and he near enough to over-hear us , is too like some other passages in the reply . yea , if they would turn it upon his cousin r. m. and his wife , that they said so , and talked so foolishly ( as i find they harp upon it ) yet that will not serve their turn ; for they not only deny it , but mr. wells hath written and printed it ( as i think i have shewed ) quite otherwise . well ; upon this wonderful relation , he gravely proceeds : now if this be so , then all this stirr to bespatter the baptists , is to clear your self : but you are the more intangled , and are taken in the snare you laid ; and i could wish there had been no occasion to discover it . discover it ! a wonderful discovery indeed . i am perswaded when this vindication comes forth , mr. wells will wish indeed , with all his heart , there had not one been word written by him , and that his friends had been tongue-tied when they told him such a story . are these the bonds and fetters mr. wells and his friends have put upon me ? and do they think to bring me forth and expose me thus to make them sport ? alas ! i can as easily break them as sampson did his wit hs and cords ; and i am certain they themselves have pull'd down an house upon their heads . for shame let mr. wells write a retractation , though it be but for the sake of this single story ; and seeing it is resolved , that he or some other shall answer again , write what i will , as one of them told me ( it seems they are greatly in love with printing , and are proud of appearing such able persons ) by all means let them clear this foul matter , but let them take care least their stirring too far make it worse . but it is high time to come to other things ; and that , in the last place , to answer the accusations brought against me , as though i had slandered the baptists , in representing them as persons wh● are industrious to make proselytes , and in urging dipping , so a● to make it a salve for every sore . 't is needless to set down th● reply made to this charge ; and i am really afraid i shall tire m● reader in leading him up and down after mr. wells's defence 〈◊〉 his friends and party : though for brevity i repeat not his word● yet i will do him no wrong ( if i should it would appear , and not be to my advantage ; ) but i propound the case plainly , and answer it home . these are the things then he quarrels with me for , having reflected on the anabaptists as industrious to make proselytes ; and urging dipping , as though all religion did consist in going down into the water ; and , in short , he challenges me to assign the guilty , or else , he saith , p. 21. it must be concluded , you cannot ? and then in what a shameful case will you appear ? now , as to my assigning the criminals , i have already said a little in answer thereto ; it is not always fit and meet , nor is it material : cui bono ? to what good would it be ? i have named some to their teachers , and instead of taking a course with them , they thought to take a course with me , and promised one mr. wells to print against me for justifying my charge , and to tell the world confidently all was a slander . what should i name any persons to the world , when they have been named publickly enough , and they take no notice , ( not at least to be openly known of ) but shut their eyes , and stop their ears , and run upon me , and cry out , that i will give no proofs or satisfaction ? i appeal to those few present at that time , when they attended me ( to use mr. well's own words , ( p. 9. ) after the publishing my book , i appeal , i say , to the consciences of their three teachers , whether i did not name several guilty of the things i laid to their charge . but to clear all at once , and to satisfie their longing desires ( so far as is any ways meet and ●it ) of assigning persons , both those who were troubled and almost distracted by the anabaptists urging it upon them to be dipp'd , as ever they hoped to go to heaven , and be saved ; and those who did trouble them , laying this mighty stress upon dipping . i say , to put an end to all , that i may clear my self , and shew how able i am every way to vindicate my self from the foul slanders cast on me , and to make my charge good to a tittle ; let mr. wells know that i have several depositions of persons by me , which fully prove the matter in hand , subscribed freely , and which will be readi●y attested , and solemnly , upon just occasion . behold one in form , ●s i have it by me with so me others . i , n. n. do own and testifie , that n. n. hath divers times , and to my great vexation and disquietude , urged me to be dipped ; setting forth the absolute necessity thereof to salvation ; inveighing against those who practised infant baptism , as antichristian , and urging me to be dipped , as ever i expected to enter into the kingdom of god. witness my hand , n. n. but , alas ! should i go about to lay open the practises of the anabaptists ( about us ) and reveal what many poor weak christians have told me , with great bitterness of spirit , how burthensome their very life was to them by reason of their importunate sollicitations to bring them to be dipped , and their desperate speeches striking an horrour into their minds , vexing their souls continually , it would , i doubt , sound very strange to many readers : but so it is in truth ; and yet , forsooth , these persons would fain be counted innocent , and cry out of the wrong i have done them . one instance i cannot but produce , and that a little largely , it being so material ; and i am glad ( as the case is ) to take the opportunity to let the world know it , and judge thereof . and because mr. wells hath sprinkled here and there a little of the point of controversie , and his ashford friends make advantage of his reply ( such as it is ) to scatter their books among us ( and surely the like was never known : for to this book of his they have tack'd another ( stitch'd them together ) yea , and more than so , at the end of his reply there are these few lines printed to couple them together ; and , as to the point of baptism , we refer that to the following treatise , formerly written by another hand , intituled , the reason why , &c. good mr. wells , why did you not send me a perfect copy ? but i suppose you thought i should hardly be caught with your chaff , and therefore a few books were provided for my self , and such as could better judge what was written ; truly this was civilly done , not to trouble me with any more books than your own ; and now it seems i have nothing to do to answer any thing but your reply ; this is a kindness i acknowledge ( i say ) because mr. wells hath scattered up and down somewhat of controversie , i think it convenient to give a touch or two to the same , to prevent mistakes and error , and to send forth an antidote for others , as well as a vindication for my self . the instance by which i take occasion to write this , was this : a woman aged near forty years came to me to be baptized : upon instructing her in the principles of christian religion , and her answering to such questions about the same , as seemed to me necessary , ( first having consulted the practice of other churches in like cases ) and professing her faith and repentance , i baptized her on a lord's day in the evening before the communicants : now , quickly upon her being so baptized , the matter being noised abroad , she was set upon by the anabaptists , even as i have represented the too common practice of some of them ; and one of them in their communion ( which they cannot disown ) did exceedingly perplex this poor woman with questions and cavillings , asking her what faith she had in what was done , and speaking against it as no baptism , seeing she was not dipped : this really disturbed her , so that she lamented it to me ; not that she was unsetled , or believed them , but because they followed her with such discourses , giving her no rest : yea , at the very time of writing this ( which is now about two years since her being so baptized ) the design is carried on very busily to proselite her : she declares to me , how she is continually disquieted by that party ; she now tells it me with tears , that she is wearied by them , and hath desired them to let her rest , being well satisfied in her baptism . but that which is yet more considerable , is this : at the time when those three teachers were with me about about my book , among others whom they press'd me to name , and instance in , i named this woman , and represented the evil of this practice , in going about thus to disquiet a poor weak woman , who was baptized so authentickly ( as one would think all christians should allow ) being an adult person , having profess'd her faith and repentance before the administration of the sacrament . hereupon one of them had the confidence to tell me , it was indeed no baptism . monstrous doctrine ! what will become of christians at this rate ? and what hope can millions have , to whom it hath been applied in any other way than that of the baptists ? what , can a mode destroy the essence of the ordinance ? and shall the application of water in a less quantity render it altogether ineffectual , and destroy its end and efficacy ? when the name of the true god , father , son , and holy ghost , is put upon the person ; and the true element of water is used ; and the principal end of its application signified , which is washing the soul with christ's blood , and purifying it by the blessed spirit ; and all is done by a minister ordained to that office : is not this baptism ? o , but she was not dipped , and that is baptism , and that only . poor , ignorant , confident men , thus to cavil ! the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , chosen by christ , and the holy ghost , doth signifie to wash , as well as to dip ; it signifies a washing with water , not only a total immersion , but a partial ; not only a dipping , but other applications of water to wash : yea , it is certain , that some of those diverse washings under the law , spoken of by the apostle , heb. 9. 10. ( which he calleth 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . ) were not total immersions , but partial , of one par● of the body , and another ; and even sprinklings , as at the consecration of the levites , numb . 8. 5 , 6 , 7. and at the cleansing o● a leprous person , levit. 14. 7. from the apostle i will lear● the meaning of this word , rather than from any baptist . but mr. wells , with his learning would teach us thus , p. 12. you cannot be ignorant but that baptiso is to dip , and is allowed , and approved to be so by the lexicons , dictionaries , and all approved authors that are orthodox ; ( 't is well he did not say only to dip for then i know what he had said , ) and 't is rare to find a schola● so weak as not for to allow it . truly 't is rare to find a baptist though he cannot read one word of greek , or understand latin , and yet not to talk and write of the sense of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as though they had consulted lexicons , dictionaries , and wha● not ? but is not this a fine begging of the question ? wh● ever denied dipping to be baptizing ? but mr. wells's friend● at ashford might be ashamed to say , that no other application o● water is baptizing ; and that this woman was not baptised for , i pray , what learned man ever rendred the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 only to dip , exclusively to all other significations ? i have no● search'd ( as before-times ) lexicons and dictionaries , and fin● the word rendred indeed to dip , but also to wash , yea , an● to sprinkle ; there comes in an item , làvo , abluo : and surely 〈◊〉 is a significant word , as well as imprimis : every tradesman knows this . indeed at the rate some baptists writ and report the words of the learned , they would perswade silly people all the learned men were almost anabaptists ; yea , and ( 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ) self-condemned , being as they are in opinion , though of a contrary practice . they make some speak a few words , and say 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is to dip , to plunge in water ; but then , as it were , stop their mouths , and cry hold ; whereas good men , might they go on , they would add , to wash , to pour on water , to sprinkle : and their quotations are much of this kind , very deceitful , per saltum , and keeping back a material part , and so making them to speak very favourably for them ; the very thing we are upon proves this , mr. wells saith , baptiso is to dip , as lexicons , &c. say , as though that were all , and it is needless to make a digression to shew it by their quotations of zanchy , piscater , calvin , poole , &c. but i would fain know , who can prove our lord jesus christ himself was dipped , or plunged in his baptism ; or that any of those baptized ones spoken of in the new testament , were so dipped or plunged ? not a word that ever i yet read did prove , i say , soundly prove it : probability is no proof of this degree ; opinion is not faith. an immersion there might be , and yet not a total one ; or , it may be some other application , as by pouring on of water . that baptism was oft performed of old by dipping , i gainsay not ; but that there were other ways , is certain also . pray let mr. wells construe these words . fundere aquam , infundere , and sometimes javare , abluere , found oftentimes in the writings of the antients ; yea , and sometimes aspergere , for baptizing ? also let him unriddle , how they baptized some in prisons , and in their beds , sick of feavours , in sweats , &c. as augustine tells us at large of a friend of his ? if this were not done by some other way than by dipping the whole body , let mr. wells declare how that could be . but shall we call in question at this day the baptism of all those in former ages who were not dipp'd ? and strike so many saints and martyrs out of the roll of the baptized , who are now in heaven ? an horrible boldness to speak at this rate ! but let them take heed ; for how , as i said , can they prove our lord himself was so dipped ? i am sure one ancient writer was of another mind , ( and surely he was not alone ) even aurelius prudentius , who sings thus of it ( being a famous christian poet flourishing about thirteen hundred years since ) perfundit fluvio pastus baptista locustis . i. e. john the baptist poured some of the water of the river on him ; our baptist would teach him to say , immergit fluvio , &c. but it seems he knew better , or at least thought otherwise : and bernard ( a later writer by far , and yet not very late neither , for he lived about five hundred years ago ; and hath the honour , if i mistake not , to be called by some , the last of the fathers ) hath this notable expression , infundit aquam capiti creatoris creatura-nobilior , & dei verticem mortalis dextra contrectat & contingit ; i. e. john the baptist , that noble creature , poured water on the head of the creator , and the right hand of a man touched and handled the head of god. i do not produce these testimonies , as though i would maintain that our lord jesus was not dipped but only to shew the boldness of those persons , who cavil at the baptism of all such as are not plunged in water , and do , by crying up dipp'd or damn'd , trouble the weak , and drive them into a dangerous melancholy . yea , what if the eunuch went down into the water , acts 8. 38. or christ came up out of the water , matth. 3. 16 , mark. 1. 10. ( though by the way 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is only , he came up from the water , not out of it ) what doth this prove ? dipping a total immersion ? surely they that say this may say any thing . but now we are speaking of baptism , i cannot but take notice of mr. wells's confidence , to call infant baptism a scriptureless notion , p. 14. and p. 13 , 14. he saith , sprinkling of infants is a new doctrine , a scriptueless thing , that is not to be found from the beginning of genesis to the end of the revelations : what , a new doctrine ? let the famous calvin , be heard , whom i chuse to quote , because i have see● him quoted in their books as one that wrote for their opinion 't is in that chapter , which he calls his appendix to the forme of baptism , written on purpose against the anabaptists , as the title and the first words declare : the title this , poedobaptismum cu● christi institutione , & signi natura optimè congruere ( i. e. ) infan● baptism's agreement with christ's institution , and the nature of the sign . the first words are these , quoniam autem hoc s●culo phrenetici quidum spiritus ob poedobaptismum graves excitarunt i● ecclesia turbas , &c. ( i. e. ) whereas in this age some phrensical ( or enthusiastical ) persons have raised great stirs in the church about infant baptism , and do not cease at this day to cause the same tumults , i cannot but subjoin this appendix to restrain their fury . now the passage i would quote out of this notable chapter , is this : quod autem apud simplicem vulgum disseminaret , longam annorum seriem post christi resurrectionem praeteriisse , quibus incognitus erat poedobaptismus ; in eo foedissimè mentiuntur : siquidem nullus est scriptor tam vetustus , qui non ejus originem ad apostolorum seculum pro certo referat ( i. e. ) whereas they talk up and down among the silly people , that it was many ages after christ's resurrection before infant baptism was known , in that they tell a most foul lye ; forasmuch as there is no writer so ancient , who doth not for certain refer the original thereof to the apostles age. but why doth mr. wells tell us of genesis , and the old testament ? who thinks baptism was the sacrament then in use ? but verily he hath laid himselfe open by this unwary expression : for i can tell him of a multitude of children baptized within that time ( and that by sprinkling also , through the dropping of the cloud and the dashing of the waters , as many learned doubt not ) and prove it out of holy scripture . let him read 1 cor. 10. 2. and see if the apostle do not say , that all the congregation of israel which passed through the red-sea , were baptized unto moses in the cloud , and in the sea ; the word is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; which i leave to mr. wells to interpret . were there not many children , thousands of them , when the men alone were above six hundred thousand ? children of all ages undoubtedly ? though paul calls them all fathers in the first verse , yet i suppose that must be taken in this sense , that as the children came to age , they also were all fathers in israel , their fore-fathers : yea , and this was typical in some sense of our sacrament of baptism , as he sheweth in the next verses , that their drinking of the water of the rock , was of the lord's supper : but why is mr. wells so over-confident ? it is a dangerous case , sure , to declare against infant baptism at this ●ate , as a new doctrine , when justin martyr , irenaeus , tertullian , origen , and those ancients who lived in the very next age to the apostles , speak plainly of it , as a practice in their days , and write of it as no other than apostolical : or why is he so confident to call it a scriptureless thing ; when several households are said 〈◊〉 scripture to be baptized ; and all the strength of the anabaptists can never make it clear there were no children in them ? but surely if families might be without them , yet there must be children in nations , and they were to be made disciples and baptized by christ's commission to his gospel ministry : but we do not lay our stress on these things , and build only on probabilities . no , but we are sure , that infants are the subjects of baptism , because they were of old of circumcision ; the church of the old and the new testament being one , only the seals of the covenant altered ; washing being a more gentle way of initiating , than cutting of the flesh : if we had not this priviledge under the gospel to have our children visibly entred and taken into god's church , the jews were really in a far better state than we , unless we will despise god's sacraments and ordinances , and care not whither our children partake of them , or go without them : yea , 't is certain , we are concerned in god's covenant , which he made with abraham and his seed , as the holy ghost witnesses in divers places , and have the same spiritual priviledges : nisi fortè arbitramur , christum suo adventu patris gratiam imminuisse aut decurtasse , quod ex ecrabili blasphemia non vacat ; as saith calvin in the former place ; ( i. e. ) unless we think that christ by his coming cut short his father's love and grace , which thought cannot be excused from blasphemy it self . but where is the repeal of that priviledge ? where is it said , i did indeed receive their children , but as for yours i will not be so gracious to them ? alas ! christ declares quite the contrary : he shewed his love to little children both by words and actions : and that good shepherd who marked his lambs of old as well as his sheep , would have them now washed alike in the laver of regeneration . but i must remember i write a vindication , and it is not my work to meddle with the questions in debate between us ; only i have touched at these things , being led to them by mr. wells , and to shew the vanity and strange confidence of these men in these matters ; it being that whereby they take the unwary and undiscerning souls . but i grow weary of writing ; and indeed this is the great mischief mr. wells hath done me ; he hath created me some trouble , and many thoughts , whereas my hands are full enough of work , the work of my ministry ; not being so happy as many of them , to mind a flock , and a family , and a trade also , and yet find time for disputing , printing , and what not , upon every little pretence ? were it not that i were afraid least i should betray the truth , and the souls of some poor people , who , it may be , expect this , as well as stand in need of it , i could be very well content to be silent ; but forasmuch as i am set for a defence of the gospel , i cannot let such matters pass without taking some pains , in a case where so many round me are so deeply concerned : not so much that i need to fear my self as others ; i think nothing hath befallen me , but what hath happened to other ministers of the gospel far above me . i did but touch them , and they have kicked against me , and made a sad noise . but , thanks be to god , they have prevailed but little hitherto , in those endeavours they have used to make proselytes ; of which i had reason to complain , and did seriously warn them . in six years i have lost but one of my flock , and that a young man , who was but a little while under my care , and so suddenly gone , that i was scarce aware of it before his departure : it was but once i had opportunity to speak to him before his being dipped , and then he utterly refused my offer to discourse with those anabaptists in his presence for his sake , who had perverted him ; nay , nor would he be brought to read a little piece i would have put into his hands , but rashly he would be dipped , and renounce his first baptism : and who could have stopped so resolute a person ? misguided zeal did strangely transport him , and since his dipping he hath done me some wrong by misrepresenting some things i had said of baptism ; but i forgive him . surely mr. wells hath lost his wit ( and that is pity indeed , he sheweth so little all along ) in that expression , p. 17. alas ! 't is to be supposed you have lost some of your disciples ( which ) makes you so peevish , pettish , froward , and unkind to your friends . no , mr. wells , not some , but one ; and my place is not thinn'd , but much otherwise ; yea , rather than fail , your friends ( it seems ) have a strong desire of doing me that honour to be my hearers : one of them who lived and dyed of your communion , a zealous person in your way , hath oft spoke to me and others of being my hearer most gladly , but refrain'd lest it should give offence : and another , who it seems ( as one of your teachers told me ) had been inclined to your opinion many years , yet having been my hearer for some time , after her being dipp'd lamented it with tears , that she must leave such preaching . truly in this i am become a fool , in glorying , but ye have compelled me . one thing more , and i conclude : whereas mr. wells makes a challenge to dispute with me , in his reply , especially in his private letter , i am afraid it would be but a spending time idly , to argue with that man , who knows not how to put the questions fairly he would dispute upon : his second offer is this , secondly , we are ready to try the cause , whether dipping or sprinkling be most ancient ? but what , i pray , would this come to ? who speaks against the antiquity of dipping ? but was it a total immersion , a dipping the whole person , certainly , infallibly , without guesses , conjectures , and probabilities ? yea , but what if so ? if christ give his churches liberty to baptize by pouring on water , or other application ( as the word will bear , as mr. wells may see in lexicons , if he can read and understand them ) then this question is meerly trifling . dipping there might be in christ's time , yea , and that the best way of baptizing , but yet not the only necessary way ; not absolutely so ; if in case of necessity and mercy men might break the sabbath , and be blameless ; or on the same account they might eat the passover on another month and day then god instituted it ; surely then , in case dipping were used of old , yet it is not of that absolute necessity as our baptists pretend , but in case of weakness , &c. may be dispenc'd with ; and where we have our liberty , why should we not make use of it ? but then his fourth assertion is more frivolous : fourthly , we are ready to prove , that dipping is baptizing , and that it is according to christ's institution . this indeed will require no great proof , and mr. wells may manage it , no doubt ; but the question is , whether a total immersion , dipping all the body , be the only baptism of christ , and nothing less , nothing else ; whither it be exclusive of any other application of water ; and this we deny ; let who can prove it . only the third question is of any moment , thirdly , whether the sprinkling of infants be the baptism of christ ? this he roundly denies ; and this comprehends both the subject and manner of application of the water ; so that it is all in one , and must be divided to be rightly handled . but i think it will not be worth while to dispute with mr. wells , of whom i do not know , nor doth he make it appear , that he hath the least learning that might be a means to keep him in order , and repress clamorousness and confidence . but if mr. wells have so much leisure , and his zeal be so great as to bring him to ashford , and my circumstances fairly permit it , i will not say but i may meet him upon this score ; i do not think to hide my head , but to give him an answer : but still i must profess , i am yet afraid of this , and cannot but perswade my self , that if it should come to a tryal , mr. wells would argue much after the same manner he writes ( i. e. ) poorly , and foully ; not handsomly nor honestly , being over-confident of what he hath no ground for ; and so he would create abundance of trouble to me , and perplex the matter he takes in hand . upon the whole , i do forgive mr. wells the wrong he hath done me , only desiring him , not to act so rashly for the future , judging in a cause , and condemning a person he is wholly a stranger to . as for my neighbours , who stirred him up , and were so eager for some body to print against me , and gave such false witness , i freely forgive them also ; only desiring them to mind their own business and to be quiet ; above all , to beware how they be concerned in printing , least they prejudice their own cause , and bring shame and disgrace upon themselves and their brethren also . post-script . considering whom i have to deal with , and for whose sake , in a special manner , i do write , in all likelyhood i have been so short , that i have been too obscure . it may be some through ignorance may think mr. wells's reply is not fully answered ; and others through a design may pretend and boast the same , asserting , that many considerable passages in his book are pass'd over in a deep silence ; and this they may falsly interpret , as though i purposely let them alone , not being willing to take notice of them , because not able to answer them : therefore , to prevent and remedy all this , take an answer , but very short , to those places hitherto omitted in the former vindication ( which i was willing to make one continued discourse ) an answer just enough to serve the turn ; and in this i will follow my opponent , and answer orderly . in the epistle to the reader ( near the end ) there is a very sarcastical passage , reflecting upon the presbyterians in general : but though it be hard , yet being nothing to our purpose , only a piece of raillery , which it would be easie , but unchristian , to retaliate , let it pass ; only i am sorry that mr. wells , who ( as it seems by his private letter to me ) is an old man , and who in his reply shews a great desire of moderation , should make such a blot in the beginning . in the beginning of the letter to me . worthy sir , whatever your ends and aims were in setting forth those tragical instances in your book , we cannot but take notice , that some part of your matter was to ridicule , and represent the anabaptists to the world , as a very weak insipid people , and yet crafty and industrious to catch men in despair , to make a party . as for my ends and aims , in setting forth that book , they were good , even such as i express'd , to bear my testimony against the atheism of this age , and to employ some part of the talent god had given me that way . what need you say , whatever they were , when i declared they were such as these ? but my design was far from ridiculing the anabaptists in such a manner as mr. wells sets it forth : it was indeed to warn and advise them ; and who cannot see how it came in ? who will think , or suspect i wrote that piece to reproach the anabaptists ? no , it was far from my heart and thoughts ; but in writing , this came in , and it seemed to me not amiss to make use of it , hoping it might do good , and might be serviceable to good ends , not to cavillings , and contradictions as it proves : but the success i leave to god. 't is very hard and unkind to bespatter us all with the miscarriage of a person , or persons ( if any such be . ) how little need there is of this reflection may appear by what i have written in my vindication . surely none will think me so weak ( or malicious , which yet i am sorry mr. wells ever and anon suggests ) as to charge this evil upon every individual baptist in england , or the whole world , who are far enough out of my knowledge : my words import no such thing , as i have cleared them , and shewed it was his ignorance so to take them . but why that parenthesis ( if any fuch be ? ) verily i had not written so , if i had not known it , or could not have proved it : but if mr. wells would not believe me , it was uncivilly done in him to go about to perswade the world to do the like . we desire you to assign the guilty , that we may clear our selves of that foul scandal , or else we prefume all is a fiction of your own brain , and with a malicious design to bespatter and abuse us . for assigning the guilty i have already answer'd at large , and done enough toward that ( i doubt not ) to clear my self , that it was no fiction of mine , much less a malicious design : but is not this very ? unchristian in mr. wells to surmize thus , and suggest such foul things as these ever and anon ? even such as one would not suspect of any who are not very obnoxious upon some evil account or other ? what , to forge such matters as these ? to lay a malicious design to abuse a party ? this is sad indeed : i am sorry mr. wells could harbour such thoughts of me , and print them too ; but the best of it is , he had no reason , unless he were confident that all his friends and society , were pure and infallible . mr. james was the man chiefly concerned with him ( i. e. r. m. ) in his hurry and trouble of mind ; but to the end he may not be thought remiss , and the better to seem clear , he finds out some to be mentioned that he says did so much wrong . and to the same purpose : upon your ill success you raise a clamour upon others to clear you ; and having digged a pit for them , fall in your self , and must be exposed to open shame and reproach . the former answer may serve very well for this . for it is all of one piece ; still unchristian , uncharitable , surmising and judging my heart , and mis-judging . truly this is a very false and wicked aspersion ; and 't is strange to me that a man should dare to hint such a thing as this , which surely he could not expect that any reader ( but deeply prejudiced ) should believe , and not rather abhor his suggestion . i pray what was there that i should seek occasion to clear my self , or find out some to take off any reproach might fall upon me ? i was desired by a kinsman of r. m. to visit him , and to obviate ( what i could ) the designs of some anabaptists ; what hurt , i pray , in my consenting and going thereupon ? or what need i to fear any shame if he did not hearken to my advice and comply therewith ( yea , how knows mr. wells but he did ? ) but i was so far from looking after this , that after that one visit i never spake more to him . how vainly and wickedly then doth mr. wells suggest such slanders ? indeed he takes a liberty to write almost any thing in this matter . secondly , you do say , they presently sat in with him ; and told him his way to have peace and comfort was to be dipped : now this mr. james doth particularly charge upon them , and therefore 〈◊〉 must hear or see this done , or else he hath published he knows no● what . no man , i think , will understand me that i said they told him in totidem verbis , but in sensu , that they perswaded him to this 〈◊〉 a way to peace and comfort . now this i did hear , though no● spoken to him , yet by a kinsman of his , who , as i said , used 〈◊〉 as a special argument to induce me to visit him ; yea , and 〈◊〉 heard so much from his own mouth that satisfied me , that it was even so : and i have proved it ( a posteriori ) in the former vindication , that there were some who did act thus , advising him about dipping as the way to peace ( for surely they did it not to trouble him , as i told k. l. when he owned his discoursing with him , and advising him upon that head. ) but that dipping should be a new doctrine in your esteem , seems strange to us , or that any that pretends to be a minister of the gospel ( and especially a scholar ) should so affirm . the dipping those already baptized ( or if you will , such as were baptized in infancy ) is indeed a new doctrine , and that is the case before us . which of the ancients did ever do this ? who ever pleaded for it till of yesterday ? of very late years ? let this be shewed by any of the baptists . though dipping be a baptizing , yet dipping those already baptized ( though but in infancy , or by pouring on of water ) is a new doctrine . where was this practiced in primitive times ? in what volume do we read it ? indeed one or two ( and i never saw more quoted ) were against baptizing in infancy ( but for other reasons than our baptists ) some even deferring it to a death-bed ; but not one that i have met with did declare , that if a child were baptized it was nothing , and the person must be rebatized , when adult professing faith and repentance . it s very probable mr. james might very much puzzle his weak disturbed head , if he press'd him to believe his new doctrine of sprinkling infants , or that his infant baptism would yield him any spiritual profit or comfort . it was not my work to press him thus , only i told him , it was no time now to think of new baptism , and being dipped : i applied other remedies than mr. wells suggests ; but i thought it proper ( as the case stood ) to shew him that it was no ways necessary to have his thoughts working at this time about dipping , but to rest where he was as to that point , and to call upon god , and resist the devil , &c. but was this solid and suitable to his malady , to instruct him , and make him believe his infant baptism was comfortable and profitable to him ? i pray how doth mr. wells know that i did thus ? what trifling is it to write and print at this rate ? is this a reply ? to whom , or to what ? if he had matter enough to write , surely he would have spared such passages . just before he said , if he press'd him , and in the next page , if he alledged this ; but here he takes it for granted , that i took this course , and then saith , but was this solid , &c. thus mr. wells is of and on , and knows not what to write : but then he goes on boldly on this presumption , adding within a few lines , and thus he was hurried in his mind , and suffered ( it is probable ) not a little by that blind zeal of yours , or scriptureless notion . it is probable i hope to none but mr. wells : and who but he would look upon what i did as acted with blind zeal , when i did not run before i was sent ; nor sought occasion , but was invited , and importuried , and then how could i do less out of respect to my office , as a minister of jesus christ ? i went not with a design to make a proselyte ( as mr. wells hints , p. 10. saying , you could not prosclyte him ) yet if mr. wells's friends had not been with him presently after me , 't is probable my advice might have done more good ; but now it is in vain to guess at it 〈◊〉 for if i did him any good ; it seems they quickly marr'd it . if that salve of sprinkling in his infancy were applied to him for his spiritual sore , it might very well distract him . what if it were not applied ? then here is just nothing said , a reply to no purpose . but what a dreadful consequence doth mr. wells draw from thence ( supposing it were so ) then it might very well distract him : a dreadful reflection indeed a terrible charge against infant baptism . for my part , i reflected only upon the unadvised carriage of some baptists , and their rash zeal to promote their opinion , and to make proselytes ; their indirect and evil practices ; their bold and bitter speeches ; but i should have been ashamed to have branded their doctrine thus where mr. wells's moderation is i know not ; it doth not appear in his reply . but i hope he doth not mean a perfect distraction , but only a little hurry of mind , and that his next words are exegetical , and lessen the sense , as it follows , and he n● suffer a little by such inconsiderate and blind zeal : let it b● so taken , even in the best sense ; for the other is very foul an● grose . and that the world may be sure to know who you mean , you repeat the name anabaptists , as you falsely put upon them , and say , wh● they rather chose to call themselves baptists . good mr. wells , how did you read this ? methinks you read as badly as you writ : how could you say i repeated the name anabaptists ? what , did you mistake atheists in the lines before for anabaptists ? for i never repeated this word : read anabaptist twice if you can ; and surely anabaptist and baptist are not one and the same name ; for you write your self a baptist , yet say i falsely put the name anabaptist upon you . but why falsely put upon you ? 't is the proper name of those of your opinion , though it may be you like it not ; and if we call you baptists it is a favour , which favour i was willing to shew you ( i mean those of your opinion ) but you acknowledge it not ; but are angry ; yea , if we call you not anabaptists , we do in a sort disown our own baptism and principles about that point : for we say ( and doubt not we are able to prove it ) that infants are truly baptized , as well as the adult : but you baptize such as were so baptized in infancy , and therefore are anabaptists , and the name truly agrees to you , which signifies rebaptizers . for my part i am not for long and hard names ( sesquipedalia verba ) or else i had us'd that name of ca●apaedobaptists ; but i judged the other both proper , and best known ; and i do not see why it should be a matter of offence to you to use it ; i am sure 't is of no great moment ; however i used these two promiscuously ( anabaptist and baptist ) not designing to reproach you by the name ( no nor any otherwise seeking occasision so to do , as you have too oft suggested ) but only to write most properly ; which is according to common speech , and as may be best understood . finis . reader , i would desire thee to be so candid , as to correct the faults thou maist find , and not to censure me too hardly for the ●ame ; for i could not be present at the press ; and i am sensible , that as i have suffered in this kind already , so i may still suffer , notwithstanding all the care and precaution i have used . books printed for john john lawrence , at the angel in the poultrey . mr. lorimer's apology for the ministers who subscribed only unto the stating of the truths and errors in mr. williams's book , in answer to mr. tr●●ls's letter to a minister in the country . 4 to . an answer of mr. giles firmin to mr. grantham , about infant baptism . 4 to . some remarks upon two anabaptist pamphlets . by giles firmin . 4 to . mr. firmin's review of richard davis his vindication . 4 to . a proposal to perform musick , in perfect and mathematical proportions . by tho. salmon , rector of mepsal in bedfordshire . approved by both the mathematick professors of the university of oxford ; with large remarks . by john wallis , p. d. 4 to . mr. stephens's sermon before the lord mayor and aldermen of london , at st. mary le bew. jan. 30. 1693. mr. shower's winter meditations : or , a sermon concerning frost , and snow , and winds , &c. and the wonders of god therein . 4 to . mr. slater's thanksgiving sermon , octob. 27. 1692. 4 to . — his sermons at the funerals of mr. john reynolds , and mr. fincher , ministers of the gospel . 4 to . the jesuites catechism . 4 to . dr. burton's discourses of purity , charity , repentance , and seeking first the kingdom of god. published with a preface , by dr. john tillotson , late archbishop of canterbury . 8 vo . remarks on a late discourse of william lord bishop of derry , concerning the inventions of men in the worship of god : also a defence of the said remarke against his lordship's admonition . by j. boyse . 8 vo . the works of the right honourable henry , late lord d●●amere , and earl of warington ; consisting in thirty two original manuscripts under his lordship 's own hand . 8 vo . bishop wilkins's discourses of the gift of prayer , and preaching ; the better much inlarged . by the bishop of norwich , and dr. williams . 8 vo . mr. samuel slater's earnest gall to family religion ; being the substance of eighteen sermons . 8 vo . mr. addy's stenographia : or , the art of short writing compleated , in a fa● more compendious way than any yet extant . 8 vo . the london dispensatory reduc'd to the practice of the london physicians : wherein are contained the medicines , both galencial and chymical , tha● are now in use : those out of use omitted ; and those in use , and not in the latin copy , here added . by john peachey of the colledge of physicians in london . 12 o. mr. hamond's sermon at mr. steel's funeral . 8 vo . history of the conquest of florida 8 vo . mr. a●kins's english g●ammar : or , the english tongue reduced to grammatical rules . compored for the use of english schools . 8 vo . mr. john s 〈…〉 r's discourse of temp●ing christ . 12 o. — his discourse of family religion , in three letters . 12 o. mr. daniel burgess's discourse of the death , rest , resurrection , and blessed portion of the saints . 12 o mr. george hamond's , and mr matthew parker's discourses of family worship . written at the request of the united ministers of london . 12 o. miscellana sacra : containing scriptural meditations , divine breathings , occasional reflections , and sacred poems 12 o. monro's iustitutio grammaticae . 8 vo . sir jonas more 's mathematical compendium . the third edition 12 o. mr. william scoffin's help to true spelling and reading : or , a very easie method for the teaching children , or elder persons , rightly to spell , and exactly to read english , &c. 8 vo . the triumphs of grace : or , the last words , and edifying death of the lady margart de la musse , a noble french lady , aged but sixteen years , in may 1681 12o . the map of man's misery : or , the poor man's pocket-pook : being a perpetual almanack of spiritual meditations : containing many useful instructions , meditations and prayers , &c 12o . man's whole duty , and god's wonderful intreaty of him thereunto . by mr. dan. burges . 12o . advice to parents and children . by mr. daniel burges 12o . mr. gibbons's sermon of justification 4 to . scala naturae : or , a treatise proving both from nature and scripture , the existence of good genii , or guardian angels . 12o . graaf de succo , pancreatico : or , a physical and anatomical treatise of the nature and office of the pancreatick juice . 8 vo . dr. packs praxis catholica : or , the countryman 's universal remedy : wherein is plainly and briefly laid down , the nature , matter , manner , place , and cure of most diseases incident to the body of man. 8vo . english military discipline : or , the way and method of exercising horse and foot , according to the practice of this present time : with a treatise of all sorts of arms , and engines of war , &c. 8 vo . orbis imperantis tabelle geographico-historico-genealogico-chronologiae , &c. curiously engraven on copper plates . 8 vo . clavi's grammatica : or , the ready way to the latine tongue : containing most plain demonstrations for the regular translating english into latin ; fitted to help such as begin to attain the latin tongue . by f. b. 8 vo . notes, typically marginal, from the original text notes for div a46634-e390 〈…〉 the ax laid to the root, or, one blow more at the foundation of infant baptism, and church-membership. part i containing an exposition of that metaphorical text of holy scripture, mat. 3. 10. : being the substance of two sermons lately preached, with some additions, wherein is shewed that god made a two-fold covenant with abraham, and that circumcision appertained not to the covenant of grace, but to the legal and external covenant god made with abraham's natural seed, as such : together with an answer to mr. john flavel's last grand arguments in his vindiciarum vindex, in his last reply to mr. philip cary, also to mr. rothwell's pædo-baptisms vindicatur, as to what seems most material / by benjamin keach ... keach, benjamin, 1640-1704. 1693 approx. 112 kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from 20 1-bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : 2003-05 (eebo-tcp phase 1). a47391 wing k47 estc r39052 18207842 ocm 18207842 107120 this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons 0 1.0 universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase 1, no. a47391) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set 107120) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, 1641-1700 ; 1125:20) the ax laid to the root, or, one blow more at the foundation of infant baptism, and church-membership. part i containing an exposition of that metaphorical text of holy scripture, mat. 3. 10. : being the substance of two sermons lately preached, with some additions, wherein is shewed that god made a two-fold covenant with abraham, and that circumcision appertained not to the covenant of grace, but to the legal and external covenant god made with abraham's natural seed, as such : together with an answer to mr. john flavel's last grand arguments in his vindiciarum vindex, in his last reply to mr. philip cary, also to mr. rothwell's pædo-baptisms vindicatur, as to what seems most material / by benjamin keach ... keach, benjamin, 1640-1704. rothwell, edward, d. 1731. paedobaptismus vindicatus. [4], 32 p. printed for the author, and are to be sold by john harris ..., london : [1693] imprint date suggested by wing. imperfect: cropped with loss of imprint date; best copy available for photographing. reproduction of original in the bodleian library. created by converting tcp files to tei p5 using tcp2tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between 1473 and 1700 available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the 25,363 texts created during phase 1 of the project have been released into the public domain as of 1 january 2015. anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. 5% (or 5 pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of 100 instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level 4 of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p5, characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng flavel, john, 1630?-1691. -vindiciarum vindex. bible. -n.t. -matthew iii, 10 -criticism, interpretation, etc. infant baptism. 2002-11 tcp assigned for keying and markup 2003-01 apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images 2003-02 judith siefring sampled and proofread 2003-02 judith siefring text and markup reviewed and edited 2003-04 pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion the ax laid to the root : or , one blow more at the foundation of infant baptism , and church-membership . containing an exposition of that metaphorical text of holy scripture , mat. 3. 10. being the substance of two sermons lately preached , with some additions . wherein is shewed that god made a two-fold covenant with abraham , and that circumcision appertained not to the covenant of grace , but to the legal and external covenant god made with abraham's natural seed , as such . together with an answer to mr. john flavel's last grand arguments in his vindiciarum vindex , in his last reply to mr. philip cary. also to mr. rothwell's paedo-baptismus vindicatur ; as to what seems most material . part i. by benjamin keach , pastor of a church of christ , meeting at horsly-down , southwark . rom. 9. 7. neither because they are the seed of abraham , are they all i hil dren , &c. — ver . 8. that is , they which are the children of the flesh , these are not the children of god. gal. 4. 24. which things are an allegory , for these are the two covenants . gal. 3. 29. and if ye be christ's then are ye abraham's seed . london , printed for the author , and are to be sold by john harris at the harrow in the poultrey 16●● the epistle to the reader . when i first entered on this text , i did not intend the publication of the sermons ; it was not at all in my thoughts : but after i had preached two of them , i was earnestly solicited by divers , to do it ; which , at last , i consented to do . yet , because some of the arguments about that two-fold covenant god made with abraham , being before publish'd , in my answer to mr. burkit , i was at a stand in my mind about it : yet meeting with mr. john flavell 's vindiciarum vindex , being ( as he says ) a full answer to mr. philip cary 's exceptions to his vindiciae legis & faedoris , together with a late treatise , wrote by mr. rothwell , called , paedo-baptismus vindicatus , i was resolved ( if the bookseller would take the copy ) to expose it to publick view , finding no person taking any notice of either of those late treatises , by way of answer . the former being so much cryed up , as a weighty piece , i thought it was necessary to examine and detect the seeming force of his chief arguments ; for tho' the author is deceased , yet i fear his writings on that subject , may do some wrong to the truth , by hindering such gracious persons reception of it , who are willing to be informed , because he was a man of great parts , learning , and ( i hope ) of piety : for , by sad experience , i perceive some people build their faith and belief of infant baptism , on the credit , and great veneration they have of the asserters of it , saying , how should such men be mistaken ? which is a poor argument ; and a great reproach it is to such persons : for their faith , it seems , stands in the wisdom of men , and not in the power of god , or certain testimony of his holy word — god may , reader , for some reasons known to himself , hide this and some truths , from some of his faithful servants , may be , as a rebuke to them for their over-valuing of humane learning , and to the people too upon the like account ; though the knowledge of the tongues i esteem in its place , and could wish , if the lord saw it good , all gospel ministers had the knowledge of the original languages ; but , ( as the apostle says ) god hath chosen the foolish things of the world , to confound the wise , 1 cor. 1. 27. and base things , and things that are despised hath god chosen , yea , things that are not to bring to naught things that are , ver . 28. that no flesh should glory in his presence , god makes use of men that are of no account , in the esteem of the learned world , to confound such who are of great repute . the truth is , that great author hath not missed the mark , only in asserting paedo-baptism , and in his dark notions , about the covenant of circumcision , but also in a point of far greater moment , viz. in asserting in this very book , the conditionality of the covenant of grace : these are his words , an antecedent condition , signifying no more than an act of ours , which , tho' it be neither perfect in every degree , nor in the least meritorious of the benefit conferr'd , nor performed in our own natural strength ; yet , according to the constitution of the covenant , is required of us , in order to the blessings consequent thereupon , by vertue of the promise ; and consequently , the benefits and mercies , granted in the promise , in this order , are , and must be suspended by the donor , or disposer of them , until it be performed : such a condition , we affirm faith to be , &c. this grand error ( for so i must call it ) the learned and reverend mr. chauncy ( whom god hath graciously raised up to defend his blessed truth , at this present time , and for whose labours we have great cause to praise the holy name of jehovah ) takes notice of , in his late treatise , which is newly come to my hand , before i wrote this epistle , tho' my copy is at the press , p. 128 , 129. mr. flavel ( saith he ) was a worthy man , but it may be , not without some hay and stubble : i wish it do not prove an attempting at another foundation , besides christ , &c. you tell us ( saith he ) what an antecedent condition is , that it signifies no more than an act of ours , and such is faith. i suppose you and he mean , in distinction from a consequent condition , the antecedent gains the estate , the lawyers reckon it the purchase-money ; the consequent condition keeps it , and it 's the quit-rent ; which , if it be not duely paid , the lord can enter and take the estate ; so that faith you 'll have , to be the antecedent : money , deposited and laid down , before you have any of your spiritual estate ; and you say , it signifies no more than an act of ours . i pray , whose should it be but ours ? if the condition be to be performed by us ; and , why is this put in ? it signifies no more , unless the meaning be , that christ's righteousness should be shut out , and it should be reckoned , under the nature of this condition , merely as an act of ours , without respect to christ , the author of it , and christ the true object of it : — see him at large . again ( he saith ) every faedoral condition is ex pacto meritorious , so that you may challenge your bargain upon performance , if it be but 20 guineys to purchase an 100 l. per annum , so that we have only your word for 't , that it is not meritorious , when it 's so in reality : the nature of the thing speaks it to the understanding of all men of sence . no , no , do not think to wheedle christ out of his merits , and god out of the honour of his free grace , and us , out of the comfort of both : you say , it 's not performed in our natural strength : no ; and yet a condition of a covenant made with man : a most unreasonable thing , to require a condition of a covenant of one , that we know hath no strength to perform it . if a rich man should offer an estate of 1000 l. a year to a poor man , that he knew was not worth a groat , provided he fetched him 20 l. of his own money , this act would be reckoned a mocking , and ridiculing this poor wretch . god did not require that small condition of adam , but that he actually had strength to perform it ; you will say , god will give him ability to perform : so he did to adam , previous to the covenant , &c. see his farther answer , p. 130. god will , in due time , bring down and abase the pride of man ; o what a doctrine do some men preach ! 't is time , indeed , now to lay aside our lesser differences , and make head against such capital errors . the foundation seems now to be struck at — reader , since i preached these sermons , i met with reverend mr. cotton on the covenant , who confirms the same thing , concerning the ax being laid to the root of the trees , speaking of that text , mal. 4. 1. the day cometh that shall leave them neither root nor branch : there are two things in the root , ( saith he ) 1st . the first is the root of abraham 's covenant , which this people much trusted upon , and that is it of which john the baptist speaks , now is the ax is laid to the root of the trees , &c. this is spoken in mat. 3. 9. after he had said , think not to say within your selves , we have abraham to our father , ver . 8. so that all their confidence they had in abraham 's covenant , temple , and tabernacle , and such things , is burnt up , and so they have no root left them to stand upon : but , 2dly , there is something more in it ; for , with this spirit of burning , the lord , by the power of this spirit , doth cut us off from any power of our own natural or spiritual gifts , whereby we thought to lay hold on jesus christ , and we are cut off hereby from all confidence that we have in our own sufficiency , &c. for there is an usual confidence that we have in our own state , tho' the lord hath cut us off from the righteousness of our parents , and from boasting of his ordinance ; yet we think there is some power left in us . cotton 's treaty of the cov. p. 177 , 178. again he saith , it is spoken of the ministry of john the baptist , which did burn as an oven , and left them neither the root of abraham 's covenant , nor the branches of their own good works . he cutteth them off from the covenant of abraham ; and so by cutting them off from the root , he leaveth them no ground to trust to , pag. 21 , 22. i hope , if this text be well considered , and our arguments , in the ensuing treatise , no wise and impartial person will find there is any ground for men to plead for infant baptism , from the covenant god made with abraham . i shall say no more , but leave what i have said to the blessing of the god of truth ( who is coming forth to shake all false foundations and states ; yea , both heaven and earth , that that which cannot be shaken , may remain ) and rest thy servant in the work of the gospel , from my house near horsly-down , southwark , this 6th . of march , 1693. benjamin keach . reader , my answer to mr. flavel and mr. rothwell , i find will not come into the first part ; but the second is going to the press , where you will have it . the ax laid to the root , &c. or , one blow more at the foundation of infant baptism , and church-membership . mat. iii. 10. and now also the ax is laid to the root of the trees , every tree therefore that bringeth not forth good fruit ; is hewn down and cast into the fire . this text is metaphorical ; there is no great difference between a metaphor and an express similitude ; and for the better understanding the mind of god therein , i shall 1. open the scope and coherence thereof . 2. explain the parts and terms therein contained . 3. i shall observe some points of doctrine reducable there-from . 4. shall improve the whole by way of application . first , from the scope and coherence of the place , 't is evident , that john baptist endeavours to take off the jews , particularly the pharisees and sadduces , from the external and legal covenant god made with abraham and his fleshly-seed , or off-spring . see vers . 7. but when he saw many of the pharisees and sadduces come to his baptism , he said unto them , o generation of vipers , who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come . historians tell us , that there were three more eminent religious sects amongst the jews , the first were called essenes , of whom we do not read in the holy scripture ; their main doctrine was fate ; they ( say our annotators ) ascribed all things to it . secondly , the sadduces were directly opposite to the essenes , they ascribed nothing to fate , but asserted the liberty and power of man's will , in the most largest sence , or in the extravagant height ; they denied the immortality of the soul of man , the resurrection , angels , &c. all which , the pharisees owned . see act. 23. 8. the pharisees , were outwardly a very zealous sort of people ; and , tho' they were tainted with that false opinion of the freedom of man's will to do good , yet they ▪ ascribed much to the providence and grace of god ; they were interpreters of the law , and separated themselves from others ; they spent much time in fasting and prayer : 1. they held , nevertheless , a righteousness by the works of the law , by which they thought they were justified and accepted of god , and so stumbled at the stumbling-stone , rom. 9. 32. 2. they gave a very corrupt interpretation of the law. 3. they held many un-written traditions of equal force with the law of god ; by which means , they made void the commandments of god. 4. they were a mere hypocritical sort of men in their practices , being very strict and zealous for the smaller matters of the law , and neglected the weightier things thereof . whether these pharisees and sadduces came with an intention to be baptized , or only out of curiosity , is hard to be resolved , since 't is said , they rejected the counsel of god against themselves , being not baptized by john. john however , sharply treates them both , calling them a generation of vipers , a sort of serpents , of whom 't is said , they make way into the world through the bowels of their dam. it may be upon this account , he gave them that name , or so called them , who thought through the bowels ( as i may so say of their ancestors ) or being the seed of abraham , or the off-spring of godly progenitours , to come to heaven ; who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come . what is the reason that you come to my baptism ? whereas some of you think there is no resurrection , no heaven , no hell , no angels , nor no spirits ; or , you , who think you are so righteous , as you need no repentance , and so need fear no wrath to come , from whence comes this to pass that you seem to fear , or to be afraid of future wrath , and the vengeance of an angry god ? bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance , ver . 8. o come now and put your selves among the crowd of poor sinners , and godly penitent persons ; repent of your false doctrines you have taught ; repent of the corrupt and wicked notions and opinions you hold , and of the vain and hypocritical lives you have led , and think not that a bear profession of this will do neither ; for you must bring forth fruits of true repentance , fruits of true holiness , from a thorough change of heart that must be wrought in you . but , ( as if he should say ) i know your thoughts , i have heard what a belief you are of , you think you are in covenant with god , and so are faedorally holy , and in a saved and safe condition , because you have abraham to your father , you conclude , that covenant god made with abraham , and his natural or fleshly seed , was the covenant of grace ; and so the promise is sure to you : and therefore , he adds , ver . 7. and think not to say within your selves , we have abraham to our father : for i say unto you , that god is able of these stones , to raise up children to abraham . you promise good to your selves , because you are the natural off-spring of believing abraham , you rest upon your descent from him . the very same plea we find they made to our blessed saviour , joh. 8. 33. we be abraham 's seed , and were never in bondage to any man. how sayest thou , yee shall be made free : we were never under the bondage of sin , as others are ; that covenant made with abraham being the covenant of grace , we are thereby set at liberty , and no man shall by his doctrine make us believe the contrary , we are a free people , in respect of our souls and spiritual privileges , ( for they could not mean otherwise , because they had often been in bondage to men , in respect of external liberty and freedom : first to pharaoh king of egypt , and then to nebuchadnezzar , and now were so in bondage under the romans ) i know ( saith our saviour ) that ye are abraham's seed , according to the flesh : they were his off-spring ; but that was no spiritual advantage to them , tho' it did give them right to legal privileges and ordinances under the law , yet it signify'd nothing now , it would not profit them under the gospel dispensation , they must be the spiritual seed of abraham , and do the works of abraham , and walk in his steps ; which they did not , and therefore the lord jesus told them , vers . 44. ye are of your father the devil , and the lusts of your father you will do . john baptist , intimates the same thing , when he called them a generation of vipers ; tho' they intituled themselves to the covenant of grace , ( like as some do now a-days ) upon that , in gen. 17. extended to abraham's seed , as well as to himself , and concluded , they were members of god's church , then on earth , and could not therefore be deny'd any privilege , or ordinance , that of right belonged to covenant children : but this great prophet knew how blind and deceived they were , not understanding , that there were two covenants made with abraham , and also a two-fold seed ( viz. ) a carnal or natural , and a spiritual seed : they thought that promise of god , made with abraham , must be made of none effect , if they should not be owned or allowed to be the seed of abraham ; but , ( saith the baptists ) god is able of these stones , to raise up children to abraham . if he should turn stones into men and women , who have abraham's faith , they would be certainly the true seed of abraham , and not such as they were , tho' they naturally proceeded from his loins , according to the flesh ; or , god could of the gentiles raise up children to abraham , and so make good his promise to him , who said , in thy seed , shall all the nations of the earth be blessed . and now farther to convince them , and so to take away , for ever , all their hope and pretences of right to gospel-ordinances , and church-membership , by vertue of the covenant made with abraham ; or , from the consideration of their being his natural or fleshly seed , he in the words i first read to you , says , and now also the ax is laid to the root of the trees , therefore every tree which bringeth forth not good fruit , is hewn down and cast into the fire , vers . 10. now , this now referrs to the time here in this place , sometimes it referrs to the matter or occasion of what is spoken , now the ax is laid to the root of the trees ; whatever is meant by the root of the trees , this is certain , the ax was not till now , or until this time so laid , or thus laid to the root : we cannot understand what the holy ghost intends hereby , unless we observe , and well consider the scope and coherence of the text , which do's clearly unfold the whole drift and purport of the baptists . he shew'd them before in the context , that their plea to gospel baptism , was not good nor pleadable , i. e. we are abraham's seed ; they might object , and say , obj. all the seed of abraham , were taken into covenant with god , and all that sprang from his loins , were members of the visible church ; and had right to the external rites , ordinances and privileges thereof . ans. this john baptist seems to grant , i. e. that it was so from abraham's time untill these days , or under the law or old covenant-dispensation ; they had , he denies not , a right to jewish church-membership , and legal ordinances : but what of that , now the ax is laid to the root of the trees ; that is , as abraham was the root , or common covenanting-father , as concerning the flesh , out of which root , all the jews , his natural off-spring , sprang ; and , upon which foundation , they and their natural church-state was founded : yet , now the ax is laid to this root , i. e. to this covenant , i. e. the legal , or external covenant made with abraham ; and down must the building fall , when the foundation is removed ; down goes the trees , when the root ( out of which they grew ) is cut down . so much as to the scope and coherence of the words . secondly , i shall explain the terms and parts of the text : 1. shew farther what is meant by the root . 2. what is intended by the trees . 3. what is meant by the ax. 4. what by laying the ax to the root of the trees , and by cutting down . 5. what by the fire , and casting into the fire . first , by the root is meant , that which bears up the branches , and on which the tree and branches stand and grow ; and 't is from hence , from this allusion , the baptists makes use of these words and expressions . now the root , whereof he speaks , ( as i conceive ) was that covenant god made with abraham , and his natural seed , or off-spring ; which covenant did , in a mystical sence , as clearly bear up the national church of israel , and all the trees , i. e. members or branches thereof , as a common natural root doth the tree , or trees that grow out of it . 2. and as by root may be meant that covenant made with abraham , and his natural seed , ( from whence the national policy , and church of the jews sprang , and was born up , and from whence it grew and was to abide ) untill the gospel dispensation came in , and was established ; so also by the root may be intended the foundation of all their hopes , confidence , and outward privileges : for that , they ( i mean the natural off-spring of abraham ) had great confidence in the flesh , by means of that legal or external ministration they were under , cannot be denied , and had many outward rights and privileges also , above all people then in the world ; and if so , ( i mean if this be granted , which i am sure cannot be denied ) then it follows there was some root , ground , or foundation , which they had , and upon which they built , and laid claim to those outward ecclesiastical and civil rights and privileges ; and that the ground root , or foundation of all this , was that covenant god made with abraham and his natural seed , is apparent to all who are not willingly blind ; for before those covenant-tranctions with abraham , we read not that the people , from whom abraham sprang , had any such rights or privileges granted to them , and what outward privileges god promised them afterwards by moses , 't is signify'd in divers places to be upon the account of the covenant made with abraham , &c. and according to the exact time , told by the lord to abraham , god brought his natural seed out of the land of egypt . this , from the scope and coherence of the words ; therefore i must affirm , is primarily , and chiefly intended by the root of the trees in this place : but , thirdly , by root , in a more remote sence , may be meant the state and standing of every ungodly , unbelieving and impenitent person ; let their hopes , expectation , and confidence , be what it will , if he be not a good tree , a believing and true penitent person , his root , or foundation on which he builds , let it be what it will , cannot secure him , for down he must go with all his vain hopes , works , expectation and confidence whatsoever with him , for now is the ax laid to the root of the trees . secondly , by trees are meant men and women , but chiefly the seed of the stock of abraham , according to the flesh ; of whom the national church of the jews was made up , and did consist ; as also , all wicked and unbelieving persons whatsoever , who embrace not the offers of grace , in the gospel , or believe not in jesus christ. for , as the church of god is compared to a good tree , and godly men , in particular , are called good trees , so is the adulterated church of the jews , compared to an evil tree ; and wicked and ungodly persons , called , evil and corrupt trees : yet it might be here noted , that they are in this place compared to fruit trees , tho' to such that bring not forth good fruit , as ( by the prophet ) the jewish church is compared to a vine , and an olive tree , tho' she brought forth sowre grapes , isa. 5. thirdly , as to the ax , we all know an ax is that instrument used by men to cut down trees , at the pleasure , or for the profit of the owner thereof ; by the ax here , may be intended divers things , by which god may be said to cut down impenitent sinners , or unfruitful churches , or bodies and souls of men. for cutting down may refer , 1. to the souls of men , &c. 2. to their outward rights and privileges . 3. to their bodies and souls both . 4. to their external , fleshly and corrupt church state. first , to the souls of sinners , which is done by an act of god's justice , when he cuts them off , from profiting by the means of grace , giving them up to unbelief and hardness of heart : and thus he in judgment dealt with the jews . 2. by giving them up to blindness of mind , when they have ears , and hear not ; eyes , and see not ; hearts , and understand not ; god utterly leaving them to a seared conscience , or gives them up to their own heart's lusts , and to walk in their own counsel . then they , in respect of their souls , may be said to be cut down in wrath for ever . 3. or , when he takes away the kingdom of god from them , i. e. the dispensation of the gospel . therefore shall the kingdom of heaven be taken from you , and given to another people , &c. secondly , it may referr to the cutting down their religious and civil rights , and privileges . 1. when god takes away all the external and spiritual immunities , blessings and favours , a people once enjoy'd . no gospel more preached to them , no ministers to preach it , the hedge of protection and preservation pluck'd up , and ravenous beasts let in to devour them ; like as god threatned the national church of israel , isa. 5. the sun to shine upon them no more , nor the clouds to rain upon them . this is a dismal cutting down . thirdly , their bodies left to be destroyed by mercyless enemies , or cut down by famine , or pestilence , as this very people were dealt with , when god brought in the romans upon them , and their souls cut off for their final unbelief and impenitency . fourthly , it may referr to the cutting down of their church-state , sacrifices , priest-hood , sabbaths , temples , and all taken away and overthrown , and another people , another seed , and more spiritual church , constituted and established in the room thereof . and thus god dealt with this people , i. e. the church of the jews also , they were broken off , or cut down , and the gentiles were grafted in , as the apostle shews at large , rom. 11. the ax , by which they are cut down , may be , first , the dispensation of god's providence , or time ; time is pictured with a sythe ; but then man is compared to grass , but it may be pictured with an ax , since men are compared to trees ; a syth is no fit instrument to cut down trees : men , as you have heard , are here compared to trees , and when once the time 's set for the jewish church to stand , or abide in the world , was expired , time , or the dispensation of god's providence , like an ax , cut it down for ever ; and so will the prefix'd time appointed by the lord , when 't is come , even cut down at the root , the bloody idolatrous church of rome , when the beasts 1260 years are expired , down she shall go with vengeance ; and unless time lays the ax at her root , and at the root of all other corrupt and national churches , there will be no cutting them down , nor will there be any , then able to save her or them : the standing of all humane and ecclesiastical states and constitutions , are determined by the almighty , who works all things according to the counsel of his own will. 2. the ax also may referr to the gospel : the word of god is an ax to hew and square some persons for god's spiritual building , and to cut down others also , as trees that are rotten , and bear no good fruit , therefore ( saith the lord ) i have hewn them by the prophets ; and what follows , mark it , i have slain them by the words of my mouth , hos. 6 , 5. the word of god either kills or cures ; 't is either a saviour of life unto life , or the saviour of death unto death , 2. cor. 2. 16. like as sweet-meats are to some pleasant and comfortable , and to others pernicious and deadly . the abuse of gospel grace cut the jews down , and so it will all others who slight and contemn it ; the word either softens , or hardens , like as the sun , who shining on the wax , it softens that ; but shining on the clay , it hardens that . when the word comes in judgment , then 't is like an ax in the hand of god's justice . i find one learned man speaking thus on this place , viz. the word of god , which is a spiritual ax , cutteth down spiritually wicked men , and hypocrites , like rotten and barren trees . this is it , which is elsewhere meant by plucking up , destroying , hardening , &c. some , ( saith he ) expound this , not of spiritual judgments , threatned in his word against impenitent sinners , but of the power of the romans , which were the instruments of god , to destroy utterly the unfaithful and wicked generation of the jews . the former is ( saith he ) the best exposition , but i conceive it may referr to both . 3. the ax may refer to men , whom god makes use of , as instruments in his hand , to cut down and destroy a wicked and god-provoking people : hence wicked rulers and kings , whom god raises up as instruments in his hand , to chastise and cut down a rebellious people , are called his sword , and the rod of his wrath and indignation , psal. 17. 14. arise , o lord , disappoint him , cast him down , deliver my soul from the wicked , which is thy sword. and thus the assyrian were an ax in god's hand , to use , as he pleased , and the romans afterwards , to the jews likewise . moreover , god's israel is called his ax , thou art my battel-ax , and weapons of war ; with thee i will break in pieces the nations , and with thee will i destroy kingdoms . god's people , in the last days , which are now very near , shall be his ax , by whom , as instruments in his hand , he will destroy babylon , jer. 51. 20 , 24. and i will render unto babylon , &c. all the evil they have done to sion , in your sight , saith the lord. reward her as she hath rewarded you , double to her double . rev. 18. 6. give her blood to drink , for she is worthy . the stone cut out of the mountains without hands , shall break to pieces all the powers of the earth , that oppose christ's kingdom , or , that stand in the way of its establishment , dan. 3. 34. 44. 4. by the ax , may in the general be meant god's wrath , however it is , or may be executed , or upon whom ; wrath will sooner , or later , cut down all the ungodly , both false churches , and tyrannical powers of the earth , and all who continue in unbelief and in rebellion against god. the laying the ax to the root , discovers the final fall and ruin of sinners , whether considered as a church , or as particular persons , dig up or cut down the root , and down falls the body and all the branches of the tree . fifthly , and lastly , therefore every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit , shall be hewn down and cast into the fire . now he draws a necessary inferrence and conclusion from the premisses . every tree , that is , every man and woman , or every corrupt church , be they who they will , either jew or gentile , babylonian or christian , if not plants of god's planting , if not fruitful to god , if they answer not his design and end , if they bring not forth good fruit , they shall be hewn down and cast into the fire of external and eternal wrath ; a fire saith the lord , is kindled in my anger , and it shall burn to the lowest hell. wrath ceases , and shall cease on them here ; but at last they shall be cast into hell-fire , where the worm dies not , and the fire is not quenched , mark. 9. 46. 1. the words being thus opened and explained , i shall take notice of two or three points of doctrine . 1. doct. now the dispensation is changed , to be of the natural root , or of the national church of the jews , or the seed of abraham , according to the flesh , as such is no ground of church-membership ; or , 't is no argument to be admitted into the gospel church , or to gospel-baptism . 2. doct. now in the times of the gospel god is , and will be , severe with all ungodly , unbelieving and impenitent sinners he strikes at their root , at the root of all their hopes , false faith , or fleshly confidence whatsoever . 't is the first of these propositions i shall in the first place insist upon and as i may be enabled , explain and prosecute amongst you ; but the time being near gone , let me now with a brief word or two , conclude at this season . 1. caution . take heed on what you build your hopes of justification and salvation , what is that which bears up your spirits : for if you are trees that grow not out of the true root , jesus christ , and the covenant of grace ; if you have not union with the lord jesus , or are not built on that foundation , or corner-stone god hath laid in sion , down you fall ; for now the ax is laid to the root of the trees . 2. enquiry . is not morality a civil and honest life , doing to all as you would be done unto , the ground or foundation of your hopes ? do you build upon this ? if it be so , tremble : remember christ saith , except a man be born again , he cannot see the kingdom of god. joh. 3. 3. if you have no other ground of hope , but from your own moral righteousness , when death comes with his ax , down you will go , and be cast into the fire . 3. consider , all you prophane and ungodly ones , what is that which bears your hopes up , what do you build upon ; is it not on the mere mercy of god , or death of christ : god ( say you ) is gracious , slow to anger , and we therefore have hopes , and do trust to that : christ dyed for sinners , &c. you say right , god is mercifull ; but what then , will you therefore presumptuously go on in ungodly and wicked courses , oh ! know he is just as well as gracious , and will in no wise clear the guilty . exod. 34. 7. except ye repent therefore , ye shall all likewise perish , luk. 13. 3. 5. shall the goodness of god , which should lead you to repentance be thus evilly improved ; i. e. to strengthen your hands , and encourage you to sin against him , and provoke him ? 't is i fear with you as solomon speaks . eccl. 8. 11. because sentance against an evil work is not executed speedily , therefore the hearts of the sons of men are fully set in them to do wickedly . christ 't is true , dyed for sinners , but you have no true faith in him , he dyed to save sinners from their sins , and that they might live to him . see my text , now the ax is laid to the root of the trees , if you believe not on christ , if you are not made new creatures , 1 cor. 5. 17. the ax will cut you down , and that with vengeance , and wrath will at last cast you into the fire : you must learn to know the way of salvation , and how the mercy of god shines forth in a mediator : christ hath satisfied his justice , and by him you must come to god out of christ , he is a consuming fire . abused mercy , o sinner ! will be turned at last into fury ; except you obtain an interest in jesus christ , you are undone ; for the wrath of god is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men , rom. 1. 3. or are you self-righteous persons ? do you build on your own righteousness , like the jews and hypocritical pharises ; you , may be , think your states good , because you are not swearers , drunkards , &c. may be , you read , pray , and hear sermons , and give to the poor , and do much good ; but if you build your hopes of heaven on these things ; down this ax will cut you also : except your righteousness exceed the righteousness of the scribes , and pharises , you shall in no wise enter into the kingdom of heaven , matth. 5. 20. nay , you must be found in the righteousness of christ , all ours is but dung , phil. 3. 8 , 9. you must in a word , bring forth good fruit , every soul of you , or perish , and this you cannot do , till your hearts are changed , and so you become good trees : make the tree good , and then the fruit will be good ; an evil tree cannot bring forth good fruit , &c. all works of unregenerate persons , yea their religious duties , are but dead works , not good fruits , nor can they bring forth good fruits , unless they are planted by faith into jesus christ : nay , i must tell you that gospel-holiness will not save us , it must be the righteousness of god by faith. sermon ii. mat. iii. 10. and now also the ax is laid to the root of the trees , every tree therefore that bringeth not forth good fruit ; is hewn down and cast into the fire . the proposition i am to prosecute , you may remember is this , considering the context , viz. now the dispensation is changed to be of the natural root or the seed of abraham according to the flesh , is no ground for church membership , or no argument to be admitted into the gospel church , or to gospel baptism . you say you have abraham to your father , or you are the children of believers , or you have believing parents : well , but what of this , ( as if john should say ) this will do you no good now , this will stand you now in no steed , this will give you no right to gospel ordinances , nor particularly to gospel baptism ; ' tho' it did to circumcision , and legal ordinances , and jewish church membership . for hager and her son are cast out , that are the old covenant , and the fleshly seed ; this old root and right , now in gospel days is struck at . the ax is laid to the roots of the trees , i. e. to your old standing on the old covenant root , as you are the lineal seed of abraham : the time is come now , that the old covenant , and covenant seed , are to be rooted up , the old house and constitution pulled down ; god is now about to build a new temple , and a more spiritual house , a spiritual temple of living stones ; and rather then he will want materials , he can of these stones raise up children unto believing abraham , and so make good the covenant of grace , or gospel covenant made with him : now you must be united to a living foundation , i. e. believe in christ , whose way i am come to prepare , and make ready fit matter for this new building , namely , the gospel church , which is not to be , by natural descent from abraham as such , but only those who have the faith of abraham ; yea , that faith he had not in circumcision , but in uncircumcision , or before he was circumcised . you must grow out of a spiritual root , i. e. be married to christ ( your first husband , i. e. the law or old covenant is just at the point of death ) that so ye may bring forth fruit to god , rom. 7. 4. but to proceed , i shall prove this proposition , viz. that the dispensation is now changed , to be of that natural root or national church of the jews , or the seed of abraham , according to the flesh , is no ground for church membership , no argument for admittance into the gospel church , or to gospel baptism . 1. because 't is positively said , that there is a change of the whole law , i. e. the levitical priesthood , legal ordinance , legal church , and legal church membership are changed and gone : that so the bettercovenant , and more spiritual church , and church membership might be established ; for the priesthood being changed , there is made of necessity , a change also of the law. heb. 7. 12. 't is so changed , as 't is abolished , to make way for this : ( as the late annotators observe , ) the mutation of the priesthood , indispensably requireth the change of the legal covenant , which hereafter i shall prove , was not the covenant of grace , but is directly called the old covenant ; the covenant of grace is but one , and that never changeth . this was made necessary by the decree of god ( as they note ) who determined , that both the priesthood and law should expire together like , ( say i , ) as an old will or testament doth , when the testator hath made and confirmed his last will and testament . when christ , the gospel high-priest , had ( saith our annotations ) in his own person and work , perfected all of it in heaven , he roots out that order of priesthood , and demolished the temple and city , to which he confined the administration , and scatters the people which would cleave to it ; so as all designs and endeavours of jews , or of apostate christian to repair or restore it , hath been ineffectual to this day . what can be more clear , sirs , then this ? that the old house , or right of church-membership , is overturned at the very root , for if the covenant , for incovenanting the fleshly seed is changed or abolished , and no new law or new precept is given forth for the bringing them in again , what ground is there left for any wise , seeing , and faithful man , to plead for infants church-membership ; but it is evident , the former is true , i. e. that covenant , by virtue of which , they had right to circumcision and church membership ; or out of which root that sprang is gone , changed , and abolished for ever , and no new law or precept is given forth , for the bringing them into the gospel-church , as such . to this text let me add another , which farther confirms it . 2. for if that first covenant had been faultless , then should no place have been sought for the second ; but finding fault with them , he saith , behold the days come , saith the lord , when i will make a new covenant with the house of israel , and the house of judah , heb. 8. 7 , 8. it was not faulty in it self , but holy , just , and good ; it requiring perfect righteousness of him that would be justified , and therefore , could not give life ; the creature being weak and unable to perform the requirements of it ; and therefore , paul saith , what the law could not do , in that it was weak , through the flesh , god sending his own son in likeness of sinful flesh , and for sin condemned sin in the flesh , rom. 8. 3. it discovers sin , and condemns for sin , but could not justifie the sinner in god's sight from sin : he that kept it not perfectly , yea continued not in doing all things written therein , was cursed by it : he that was circumcised , was bound to keep the whole law that rite obliged them , it seems to perform perfect obedience ; and yet some affirm , it was a precept of the gospel covenant ; but more of this by and by : but say some , was not circumsion a priviledge ? did it not profit them ? the apostle answers this question : for circumcision verily profiteth , if thou keep the law , but if thou be a breaker of the law , thy circumcision is made uncircumcision : see how the apostle brings in circumcision , vers 23. thou that makest thy boast of the law , through breaking the law , dishonourest thou god. he , it is evident , shews , that circumcision appertained to the law , to the old covenant , or covenant of works ; for circumcision profiteth if thou keep the law , &c. no profit , no advantage by circumcision , unless the circumcised keep the law ; that is , ( saith the late annotations ) perfectly , to which circumcision obligeth , gal 5. 5. now this being so , the first covenant being weak , and faulty , ( i. e. through the insufficiency and weakness of the creature , he being not able to answer its just demands ; god in his infinite mercy sent his own son , in our nature and stead , to fulfill the righteousness thereof ) he sought and found out the second covenant , and the first is gone , which brings me to the third proof of the point . 3. heb. 10. 9. he took away the first , that might establish the second . there is a first and second covenant , or an old , or a new , the first must not be confounded with the second , nor the second with the first , because quite different in their nature , design and end : the first covenant was made , 't is true , primarily with the first adam , and all mankind in him ; that was the first original , or beginning of it ; and then to him it did give life , whilst he stood by his obedience to it ; but that ministration of it , of which the apostle speaks , and calls the first covenant , was that which god gave to abraham's seed , according to the flesh , by moses . and to assure abraham , that unto his seed should be given that law , or the oracles of god , &c. he gave him the covenant or precept of circumcision , rom. 3. 1 , 2. it served as a pledge of the law , and obliged them to keep it ; therefore under this old covenant , or first covenant , 't is evident , came in circumcision , and the policy and national church of the jews , and all other legal and external rights and privileges whatsoever , both the national church and church-membership ; but when the root was struck at , i. e. the first covenant was took away , all its rights , laws , privileges and appurtenances whatsoever , went with it ; so that now we ( saith the apostle ) know no man after the flesh , 2. cor. 5. that is , we prefer or esteem no man better then others , upon the score of the first covenant , or fleshly privileges , i. e. being of the seed of abraham , or of the church of jews , old things being past away , and all things being become new , all types , sacrifices , priest , and priesthood , legal place of worship , legal time of worship , legal ministers , and legal maintenance of those ministers , the legal church , and legal church-membership , were all taken away , when the covenant was took away ; and thus the ax is laid to the root of the trees , by the establishing the gospel dispensation , the anti-type being come , and the heir come to full age , god deals with us now , no more , as with children in non-age ; but as with men who are come to knowledge and understanding . this i desire may be considered , that whatsoever was a type or shadow , did appertain to the old covenant ; and a great error or mistake 't is , for any to say , the shadows of the ceremonal law were gospel , because they pointed to the gospel ; which mistake i shall farther clear up hereafter , and proceed to the fourth proof . gal. 4. 30. cast out the bond-woman and her son. what is meant by the bond-women agar , and ishmael her son , you may see , if you read vers . 23 , 24 , 25. it is written , that abraham had two sons , the one by a bond-maid , the other by a free woman , vers . 22. but he , who was born of the bond-women , was born after the flesh ; but he of the free woman was by promise . by being born after the flesh , is opposed to him that was born by the promise , the meaning is ishmael ; tho' he was abraham's seed or son , according to the flesh , yet he was not his seed nor son according to the promise , or covenant of grace , god made with abraham . which things are an allegory ; for these are the two covenants , the one from mount sinai , which gendereth to bondage . ver . 24. an allegory , is that by which another thing or things are meant ; or it hath a mystical signification ; more is to be understood then is expressed litterally . i. e. agar held forth the first covenant god made with abraham's fleshly seed , and ishmael the children of the first covenant ; sarah signified the gospel , or the new covenant ; and isaac the children of the new covenant . nevertheless what saith the scripture ? cast out the bond-woman and her son ; for the son of the bond-woman shall not be heir with the son of the free woman . ver . 30. the drift and scope of the spirit of god in ●his place is ( as i conceive ) first , to shew that there were two covenan● made with abraham , ( which no doubt he himself , who is called the friend of god , well understood ) one with his natural seed as such ; the other with his spiritual seed as such . secondly , that the casting out of the bond-woman shews the abrogation of the first covenant , and all the external foederal and fleshly rights and privileges thereof , and the casting out of the seed of the bond-woman , shews the utter rooting out , and rejection of the external and political church-state of the jews . thirdly , that none of the fleshly seed as such , should be heirs and partakers with the true spiritual seed of abraham under the gospel , or have a being in abraham's true spiritual house or gospel church . these things being so , what reason there is for any to plead for infants church membership , by vertue of the covenant made with abraham , let all men consider . see heb. 8. 13. therefore from hence i argue , that whatsoever external rights or privileges the jews had under the old covenant , it signifies just nothing to us , under the dispensation of the gospel ; even no more then a legacy bequeathed in a former will , is pleadible , which is left out in the last will and testament , confirmed by the death of the testator . i would have all men consider , that whether there is any more ground for men from thence to plead for infant church-membership , then for others to plead for ministers to have the first fruits , and the tenths of every man's increase ; or for me to argue thus , every child of a christian is born a member of the christian church ; because under the law every child of the jews , were born members of their church ; ( and it must needs be so then , because theirs was a national church ; ) or for every ministers son to plead for a right to the ministry : for evident it is , that all the sons of the priests under the law , had a right to the priest-hood ; ( tho' they were not to enter into the ministry untill such an age : ) also particularly to dedicate all our first-born to the lord , because the jews were required so to do . nay , i may say more , by the covenant of circumcision abraham's natural off-spring had a right to possess the land of canaan : shall we from thence say , all our seed have an equal right to that promise ; if we could persuade our selves of this , we may think of another holy war , and get our seed their rightfull possession : the like , as touching our keeping their sabbath . lastly , and evident 't is , all that were circumcised had an undeniable right to eat the passover ( which they that assert circumcision was a type of baptism , say , also was a figure of the lord's supper ) and if so , then it follows by the same argument and parity of reason , all our children that are admitted to the ordinance of baptism , may , nay , must be also admitted to the ordinance of the lord's supper ( as indeed they were by the ancient fathers , who first brought in the practice of infant baptism , and so it continu'd for some hundred of years : see exod. 12. 45. all the whole family had a right to eat the passover , except foreigners , and hired servants . but in a word , the ax is laid to the root of the trees , all these jewish rights and privileges are gone with their national , external church state : for as the first covenant , i. e. the bond woman is cast out , so are all her children also . obj. how can this be , that the children of abraham , and so the children of believers , who are abraham's seed , should not have right to gospel privileges and baptism , seeing you cannot deny but that it was the covenant of grace that god made with abraham . answ. i have told you already , that there was two covenants made with abraham ; the covenant of grace was that covenant which is called the promise , which god made with him , and nothing can be more clear , then that the fleshly seed as such , ( tho' they proceeded from abraham's loins , ) were not concerned in that covenant or free promise of grace . 〈◊〉 since this is doubted of by some , and utterly denied by others , viz 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 was a two-fold covenant made with abraham , i shall endea 〈…〉 ke this very plain and evident , tho' indeed , what i have already sa 〈…〉 be sufficient to unprejudiced persons : but to proceed , i shall shew what promises and privileges appertained to the natural seed , as such , and what promises appertained to his true spiritual seed , and none else . first , i will begin with that covenant made with abraham's natural seed , as such , i never yet heard , but that the covenants take their denomination from the promises , and the promises are of two sorts , quite different in their nature , i. e. some domestick and civil promises , especially and absolutely respecting the house and natural seed of abraham and policy of israel . others only respecting those that are believers in christ , or evangelical ; belonging to them the gospel covenant belongeth . 1. the first that belonged to abraham's natural seed as such , that i shall mention , is that of his multiplying his natural seed by isaac . 2. the birth of isaac by sarah his wife , gen. 17. 16 , 19. 3. the continuation of his covenant , with all that should proceed from isaac , according to the flesh , gen. 17. 6. 4. the coming of christ out of isaac . 5. the bringing the natural seed of abraham , by isaac , out of egypt . 6. the promise of giving his natural seed the land of canaan for their possession , gen. 15. 8. now pray note two things : first , that as the covenant of grace bears the name of the promise of god , not a conditional , but an absolute promise ; so likewise say i , these promises , distinct from that free promise , contain the legal covenant made with abraham's natural seed . if you well mind the nature of these promises i have mentioned , you can't so much as once in the least imagine , any of them were made to his spiritual seed as such , i mean , that any of them do , or can concern us gentile believers . secondly , but to put the matter out of doubt , pray observe that the law of circumcision is expressly called gods covenant ; tho' i know some , to strengthen their bad cause , would have it be so called , only by a certain figure ; pray read gen. 17. and god said unto abraham , thou shalt keep my covenant , therefore thou and thy seed after thee , in their generations , vers . 9. this is my covenant which ye shall keep between me and you , and thy seed after thee , every male child among you shall be circumcised , vers . 10. and ye shall circumcise the flesh of your fore-skin , and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you : and that to this covenant was promised the land of canaan , 't is expressly said in vers . 8. and i will give unto thee , and to thy seed after thee , the land wherein thou art a stranger , all the land of canaan for an everlasting possession , and i will be their god. so in gen. 15. 8. in that same day god made a covenant with abram , ( not abraham ) saying , unto thy seed , have i given this land from the river of egypt , unto the great river euphrates . this covenant , and these promises i assert , cannot belong to the spiritual seed of abraham as such , but were blessings that belonged only to his carnal or natural seed , and directly agree with the covenant made with them by moses , viz. the land of canaan , riches , peace , plenty , and all other temporal and earthly blessings , if they kept god's covenant ( with their church state , and visible worship of god among them : ) now the new covenant it could not be , because that is established upon better promises , and no other people had any right to those outward blessings ; nor were they made only to the elect ones , who were of his natural off-spring , but to his fleshly seed as such , as well as they ; upon that condition , they kept the covenant of circumcision , and conformed themselves to the law god gave them , which they were obliged to do by the covenant of circumcision , as i shewed before . secondly , i shall now shew you , what those promises were , that respect the covenant of grace made with abraham , and his true spiritual seed , as such . 1. i have made thee a father of many nations , ( meaning gentile belie 〈…〉 2. in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed , gen. 12. 3. observe here what the apostle speaks , and the scripture foreseeing that god would justifie the heathen through faith , preached the gospel to abraham , saying , in thee shall all nations of the earth be blessed , gal. 3. 8. nay , and 't is for ever to be noted , that the holy apostle endeavours to do the very same thing in gal. 3. 16. which i am now about , viz. to prove , that the covenant of grace was not made with abraham's fleshly seed , as such ; read the text , now to abraham and to his seed was the promise made ; he saith , not to seeds , as of many ( meaning his fleshly seed , as such ) but to thy seed which is christ. and then in vers . 29. he concludes , and if ye be christ's , then are you abraham's seed , and heirs according to the promise . you must not reckon from abraham , but from christ : he must be blind that can't discern from hence , that there were two covenants made with abraham . compare these texts with that in rom. 9. 6 , 7 , 8. obj. but the jews might object ( they not seeing nor understanding this twofold covenant ) if we are rejected of god , and rooted out , god is unfaithfull and his promise made of none effect to abraham , and 't is his seed . 1. answ. the apostle answers , they are not all israel , which are of israel . vers . 6. 2. neither because they are the seed of abraham , are they all children , ver . 7. that is , though they be all the seed of abraham , according to the flesh , yet they are not all his spiritual seed , according to that covenant of grace made with abraham , all the true spiritual seed are the children of god , as isaac was , being begotten and brought forth as the product of almighty power , as fruit of god's free promise ; i will come , and sarah shall have a son : see the apostle's further answer , that is , they which are born after the flesh , these are not the children of god , but the children of the promise are counted for the seed , vers . 8. martin luther confirms the same great truth we contend for : paul therefore concludeth with this sentence ( saith he ) that they that are of faith , are the children of abraham ; that corporal birth , or carnal seed , make not the children of abraham before god ; as if he would say , there is none before god accounted as the child of abraham ( who is the servant of god , whom god hath chosen and made righteous by faith ) through carnal generation ; but such children must be given before god , as he was a father ; but he was a father of faith , was justified , and pleased god , not because he could beget children after the flesh , not because he had circumcision under the law , but because he believed in god. he therefore that will be a child of the believing abraham , must also himself believe , or else he is not a child of the elect ; the believing and the justified abraham , not the begetting abraham ; which is nothing else , but a man conceived , and born , and wrap'd in sin , without the forgiveness of sins , without faith , without the holy ghost , as another man is , and therefore condemned . such also , are the children carnally begotten of him , having nothing in them , like unto their father , but flesh and blood , sin and death ; therefore these are also damned : this glorious boasting then , we are the seed of abraham , is to no purpose . thus far luther , on gal. 3. p. 115. thus mr. perkins speaks also : the seed of abraham ( saith he ) is the seed , not of the flesh but of the promise ; and this seed is first christ , and then all that believe in christ ; for these are given to abraham by promise and election of god : moreover , the seed is not many ( as paul observeth ) but one . it is objected , that the word seed , is a name co-elective , and signifies the whole posterity of abraham . answ. it doth sometimes , ( saith he ) but not always ; for eve saith of seth , god hath given me another seed : again , ( he saith ) this one particular seed of abraham is christ jesus , here the name christ , first and principally the mediator , and then secondly , all jews and gentiles believing , that are fit and grafted into christ by faith : st. paul saith , the children of the flesh , those are not the children of god ; but the children of the promise , are the seed of abraham . thus mr. perkins . 2. now nothing is more evident then that by the promise is meant , the covenant of grace , the children of the promise , made with abraham , are children of the new covenant , and so generally owned by all , our true protestant writers ; and this promise or covenant we find , was only made with abraham's spiritual seed , as these two famous writers , and many more positively affirm . 3. yet also it is plain , there was a covenant made with abraham's natural seed , and that they were taken into an external , national church state , and covenant relation with god , and had divers peculiar immunities and privileges granted to them , as so considered ; all which fully evinces , that there was a two-fold covenant made with abraham : certainly none can suppose , but that their church state and legal rights were covenant blessings , and that they begun in abraham ; and that too , by those covenant transactings , god made him , is so clear , that nothing need to be said more unto it ; and i cannot but wonder that our eminent writers , should confound and jumble these two covenants together , as indeed i find generally they do . obj. but some will still object , that tho' this which i have said be granted , i. e. that there were two covenants made with abraham , yet say they , circumcision was a gospel covenant , or did appertain to the covenant of grace . answ. i answer , and positively affirm , that the covenant of circumcision was part of that legal , old , and external covenant , which is done away : and this in the next place i shall fully prove . 1. because the law , or covenant of circumcision , was , it appears , made in the design and end of it , to separate the natural seed of abraham in their national church , standing from all other nations of the world , and to give them the land of canaan , and to keep themselves pure , from mixing among the pople , from whom christ , according to the flesh was to come : and hence it was , that they were not to mingle themselves with the heathens , nor suffer any to join themselves to them , unless first circumcised . will any say that the covenant of grace , or gospel covenant , in the design of it , is to separate all true believers , and all their natural seed ( tho' some of them are the worst of men , i. e. vile and ungodly ) from all other people in the world , in a church state ? if they should affirm this , then the gospel church , for ever ceases to be congregational , but must be national as the jewish church was , which is contrary to the doctrine of the church of england ( whatever her practice is ) doth not she say , the church of god is a company of godly christians , among whom the word of god is truly preach'd , and the sacraments duely and truly administred ? and do not the godly independants say the same ? did christ ever , under the gospel , constitute any one nation , consisting of believers , and their carnal off-spring ( some godly , and some ungodly ) into a church ? read over the new testament , and see whether the direct contrary , is not apparent ; for they were only such , who believed were converted and professed faith in christ , and so were baptized , that were added to the church ; and of such only doth the gospel church consist . 2. but observe the other part of this argument , i. e. circumcision was a token to abraham's natural seed of god's giving unto them the land of canaan , see gen. 17. 7. and i will establish my covenant between me and thee , and thy seed after thee , in their generations , &c. and i will give unto thee , and to thy seed after thee , the land wherein thou art a stranger , all the land of canaan , &c. and ye shall circumcise the flesh of your fore-skin , and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you , vers . 11. the gospel covenant , the apostle tells us , is established upon better promises , not an earthly canaan , but heaven it self : what , tho' canaan was a type of heaven , that will not mend the matter , for then it follows that it belonged to the old typical and shadowing covenant : moreover , if that covenant was the gospel covenant , our children have an equal right to the land of canaan , with the natural seed of abraham ( as i said before ) and then how did that promise , viz. the possession of canaan belong then to the jews , as their peculiar right only . arg. 2. because there were some to whom the covenant of grace , or gospel covenant did not belong , were , nevertheless , commanded to be circumcised , as ishmael , esau , &c. doth the gospel covenant appertain to scoffing ishmaelites , and to prophane esau's ? no , god told abraham , his covenant should not be with ishmael . as for ishmael , i have heard thee , behold i have blessed him , but my covenant will i establish with isaac , gen. 17. 20 , 21. also , there were others who might be in abraham's family ; who , no doubt , might some of them be in the covenant of grace , that were not required to be circumcised , nor did it belong to them , viz. 1. all his male children , who dyed before eight days old . 2. all his female children . 3. there was also some other godly men , in the days of abraham , to whom circumcision of right did not belong , as melchisedec , lot , job , &c. doubtless , had circumcision been a law or precept of the covenant of grace , all these would god have required to have been circumcised as well as the others ; but the truth is , being in the covenant of grace , gave no right at all to any , no not to the male children of abraham , to circumcision ; but only god's express and positive command to him . arg. 3. 't is apparent , that the jews who were comprehended in that legal and external covenant , made with abraham's natural seed , and were accordingly circumcised , were nevertheless denyed gospel baptism , and their plea , we are abraham 's seed , was rejected by john baptist's . now had circumcision been a gospel-covenant , i see no reason why john should not admit them ; nay , and 't is plain also , that some godly ones of abraham's natural seed , who were circumcised , were nevertheless baptized . what , had they two seals of one and the same covenant ? for circumcision was in force at that time , when many of them were baptized ; for many subjected to that ordinance , before christ dyed , and abolished that rite with the old covenant . 1. from hence it appears , that circumcision was no gospel law , nor did it appertain to the covenant of grace ; but was part of the old legal covenant , which the ax was laid to the root of , and is gone . 2. it also follows from hence , that the covenant of grace , was not the adequate reason of circumcision , but the mere positive command of god to abraham , for the reasons and designs before-mentioned . from whence i argue thus , that covenant that was made with , or did of right belong unto the fleshly seed of abraham , as such , even to ungodly ones , as well as to the godly , was not the covenant of grace ; but the covenant or law of circumcision , was made with , or did of right belong unto the fleshly seed of abraham , as such , even unto ungodly ones , as well as to the godly : therefore the covenant of circumcision was not the covenant of grace . i have shewed you that circumcision did belong to ishmael and to esau , and to all isaac's natural seed , tho' ungodly , and to their male children also ; and i need not tell you what wicked men sprang from isaac's loins , according to the flesh , but let them be ungodly , and not have one dram of new covenant grace in them ; yet they were obliged to circumcise their male infants . this is enough ( one would think ) to convince our brethren , and all that differ from us , that circumcision did not appertain to the covenant of grace , or was no gospel covenant . also let them take heed ( who plead for pede-baptism , from the covenant of circumcision ) how they any more deny to baptize the children of ungodly parents , since the male infants of ungodly parents were circumcised . the truth is , it was not to be enquired , whether the parents were believers or not ? whether they had abraham's faith , or not ? were godly , or not , before their children were to be circumcised ? but were they the natural seed of abraham ? ( that was enough ) it was that according to the express and positive command of god to abraham , that gave their children , if males , a right to be circumcised . arg. 4. that circumcision was no gospel law , or covenant , appears yet further , because all in the gospel covenant , 't is expresly said , shall know the lord , jer. 31. 31. behold the days come , saith the lord , that i will make a new covenant with the house of israel , and with the house of judah , not according to the covenant that i made with their fathers , in the day that i took them out of the land of egypt ; which my covenant they break , although i was an husband to them , saith the lord. ver . 32. but this shall be the covenant that i will make with the house of israel after those days , saith the lord : i will put my law in their inward parts , and write it in their hearts , and i will be their god , and they shall be my people . ver . 33. and they shall teach no more every man his neighbour , and every man his brother , saying , know the lord : for they shall all know me from the least of them unto the greatest of them , saith the lord , &c. pray observe , in the old covenant infants were members , who did not ( when taken into that covenant , and made members of that legal church ) know the lord , nor indeed their right hand from their left . therefore they , when grown up , had need to be taught , saying , know the lord ; and thus , upon this account , every one had need to teach his neighbour and his brother ; but in the gospel covenant , god saith , it should not be thus , for that all , whom he would make that covenant with , should know him , before they were received as members of that church , tho' afterwards 't is granted , they stand in need of further teaching and in this respect , the gospel covenant , and gospel church state , differs , or is not according to the old legal and external covenant , and church state of the jews , as well as in other things ; that being a conditional covenant , the new covenant absolute , i will , and they shall , that was a covenant of works , this of grace , &c. they shall all know me from the least to the greatest ; not one infant then be sure is in it , as a member of the gospel church , they are now required to repent , to believe , to bring forth fruits meet for re●entance . they must be made disciples by teaching as appears by the great commission , mat. 28 , 19 , 20. before baptized ; who are to be members of the gospel church . arg. 5. the covenant of circumcision could not be the gospel covenant , because the terms of it runs according to the sinai covenant , which is said , not to be of faith , but ( 1 ) the man that doth those things should live in them , gal. 3. 22. ( 2 ) life was promised to obedience to it , and death threatned to disobedience . ( 3 ) the promise of the sinai covenant , was the land of canaan , riches , peace , and prosperity , to be blessed in the basket and store ; and so runs the covenant of circumcision , see gen. 17. 9 , 10 , 14. thou shalt keep my covenant , &c. and i will give unto thee , and to thy seed after thee , the land of canaan , &c. ver . 8. and the uncircumcised man-child , whose flesh of his fore-skin is not circumcised , that soul shall be cu● off from his people , he hath broken my covenant , ver . 14. thus ran the law and covenant of circumcision , it was life upon the condition of obedience , death upon disobedience , 't was do and live ; but thus runs not the terms of the new covenant , but directly contrarywise , believe , and thou shalt be saved , are the terms of the gospel covenant ; from whence i shall draw this argument . that covenant that was in the nature and quality of it , as much a covenant of works , as the sinai covenant , could not be the covenant of grace . but so was the law and covenant of circumcision . therefore circumcision was no gospel law or covenant . arg. 6. the covenant of circumcision was of the letter , and not of the spirit . this the apostle lays down , rom. 3. 29. but he is not a jew which is one outward ; and circumcision is that of the heart in the spirit , and not in the letter , whose praise is not of man but of god. doth he not clearly hereby intimate , that circumcision of the flesh was of the law , and not of the gospel ? for by letter , the law is meant , all expositors confess , in that paralell text , 2 cor. 5. who hath made us able ministers of the new testament , not of the letter but of the spirit , see our late worthy annotators , by the letter : here ( say they ) the apostle understandeth the law , or the law , is called the letter , rom. 2. 27. who by the letter and circumcision , doth transgress the law. the law ( say they ) in opposition to the gospel , is called the letter ; and again they say , the gospel is called the spirit , both in opposition to the carnal ordinances of the law , and because christ is the matter , subject , and argument of it . the law kills , but the gospel gives life ; yet some affirm , that law written in stones was the gospel , or a dark ministration of it : what law is it then that kills ? and what was the covenant of works , which as such is taken away ? but no more of that : here 't is plain , circumcision was not of the spirit , i. e. not of the gospel , but of the law. arg. 7. that covenant , in which faith was not reckoned to abraham for righteousness , was not the covenant of grace , or a gospel covenant : but the apostle shews us , that faith was not reckoned to abraham in circumcision , rom. 4. that faith was reckoned to abraham , for righteousness , vers 9. how then was it reckoned when he was in circumcision , or in uncircumcision , not in circumcision , but in uncircumcision ? ver . 10. what need was there for st. paul to argue thus against circumcision , if it were , as our brethren say , a gospel law , precept , or covenant ; and remarkable 't is , that the apostle puts , ( in this chapter ) the law and circumcision together , as being of one stamp , or of the same nature , and excludes them both from the free promise of god made to abraham , which i have shew'd was the pure gospel , or new covenant : reader , see mr. philip cory's solemn call , where thou wilt meet with this , and some other of these arguments largely opened , and his reply to mr. flavel , both worth thy reading . arg. 8. the law or covenant of circumcision , is ( as the said worthy writer observes ) contrary distinguished or opposed ) by the apostle , in rom. 4. ) to the covenant of faith , or gospel covenant , therefore could not be one , nor of the same nature , read 9 , 10 , 11 , 12 , 13 , and 14 , verse● . arg. 9. that covenant or precept that profited none , unless they kept the law , could not belong to the covenant of grace ; but so the apostle speaks of circumcision , for circumcision verily profiteth if thou keep the law , rom. 2. 25. that is , as i have observed , if thou keep the law perfectly , but if thou break the law , thy circumcision is made uncircumcision , that is of none effect . 't is strange to me that circumcision should be a gospel covenant , and yet not profit any , unless they perfectly kept the law , and also obliged them so to do , gal. 5. 3. could a man have perfectly kept the law of the old covenant , he might have thereby been justified in the sight of god , and then no need of a christ to have fulfilled the righteousness of it for us , and in our nature . — but doth a gospel precept oblige any to the perfect keeping of the whole law : how then could this be a gospel precept ? o see how the law and circumcision agree , and comport together in their nature , end , use and design , and never plead for it as a gospel precept any more , unless you have a mind to bring your selves and children under the old covenant , and the curse thereof ; compare this with gal. 5. 3. for i testifie to every man among you that is circumcised , that he is a debtor to do the whole law . not as a late writer says in his opinion , or in his intention that was circumcised , that he was such a debtor : for it may be justly doubted , whether they so thought or not : nay , by the apostle's words it seems otherwise , i. e. they did not think any such thing ( tho' they might seek to be justified by the law , and circumcision , yet not that they thought themselves obliged to keep the whole law perfectly ) but they who were circumcised , were verily obliged by circumcision , to do the whole law , when circumcision was in force . whatsoever mr. john flavel hath said in his late book to the contrary , notwithstanding , in answer to mr. cary : and indeed , the annotators agree with us herein ; thus i find they express themselves . object . but did not the fathers then , by being circumcised , acknowledge themselves debtors to the law. answ. yes , they did acknowledge themselves bound to the observation of the law , and to endure ( upon the breaking of it ) the curse of it , but they were discharged from this obligation , by believing in the lord , jesus christ , who was made a curse for them . arg. 10. the covenant of circumcision could not belong to the gospel covenant , because 't is called , in express terms , a yoke of bondage , act. 15. 10. gal. 5. 1 , 2. now therefore why tempt ye god to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples , which neither our fathers , nor we , were able to bear . i wonder any should call circumcision a privilege ; the yoke was circumcision , which those false teachers would have put on men , who were believers among the gentiles ; see vers . 1. if the jews had any profit , advantage or privilege by it , it was chiefly , because unto them were committed the oracles of god , or ten commandments , not chiefly , because unto them was given the covenant of grace ; for had it been a gospel covenant , or a rite thereof ( as our mistaken opposers affirm ) he would have said so ; see his words , what advantage then hath the jew ? and what profit is there in circumcision , rom. 3. 1. much every way , but chiefly , because unto them were committed the oracles of god , ver . 2. it did not seal to them the covenant of grace , nor assure them of the blessings thereof ; for so a seal doth all the blessings and privileges of that covenant , to which it is prefix'd , but the direct contrary , i. e. it assur'd them , that they should have the law given to them ; the oracles of god , i. e. the sinai covenant , which law shewed them what a kind of righteousness it was , god did require of all men that would be justified in god's sight ; it was not given to them to give life , or righteousness , but to shew the exceeding sinfulness of sin , and to regulate their lives , to put a curb upon their lusts so hateful to god ; as also , to discover unto them , that nothing short of a perfect and compleat righteousness , could justifie the creature in the sight of god ; and so the law , through the weakness of the flesh , lay'd all men under death and condemnation , exacting hard service , but gave no strength to perform its demands ; it killed , but could not give life : and therefore , as it was a covenant of works , ( do this and live , or the man that doth these things shall live in them ) which christ abolished it by the blood of his cross. and since it appears by what the apostle says , that circumcision obliged ( while it was in force ) to do all the whole law , which he that did not so do , was cursed by it ; 't is evident , that instead of its being a covenant of grace , or the seal thereof , it rather sealed the curses of the law upon them , for their disobedience ; and therefore , such a yoke of bondage , which they nor their fathers were able to bear . circumcision , it appears then , was an earnest to abraham's natural seed of the sinai covenant ; which law was , ( 't is evident comprehended as a covenant of works ) in circumcision , and so circumcision was a part or branch of it ; god then , and at that time , taking his natural seed into an external covenant relation with himself , was thereby , in his wisdom , obliged to give the said law in tables of stone to them , for the reasons , use and end , befo●e mentioned ; and as 't is by our apostle frequently in his epistles hinted , the apostle ( as a learned writer observes ) doth not here begin a discourse , nor to the number of privileges and advantages ; for he names but one in all , but to the quality of this privilege , viz. that it was not an evangelical , or gospel privilege , but only a legal or old covenant rite and privilege ; this is the chief of all the advantages the jews had by circumcision , i. e. there having thereby an assurance , that the law of god , on mount sinai , should be given to them : so much as to the proof and demonstration , that circumcision was no gospel-precept , or covenant . obj. but , perhaps , some may object , if infants as such , were not included in the covenant of grace god made with abraham , how can dying infants be saved ? 1. answ. i answer , must infants of believers be comprehended in that covenant god made with abraham ? or else , cannot any dying infants be saved ? how then were any dying infants saved before abraham's days , or before that covenant was made with him ? 2. i never said no infants were included in the covenant of grace , god made with abraham , but not as such : no doubt , all elect persons , both infants and the adult , were included in the covenant of grace , and had or shall have the blessings of christ's blood and merits ; but the covenant of grace may be considered two manner of ways , or under a two-fold consideration . 1st . the inward invisible blessings , grace , and privileges of it . 2d . the visible and outward administration , or privileges thereof . 1. now who they be , that are comprehended , or included in the inward , and invisible blessings , grace and privileges of it , are only known to god , not to us : but the gospel , or covenant of grace , as to the outward administration , and privileges thereof , only belong to such who know the lord , or profess faith in jesus christ ; and therefore , all that have a right to baptism , and gospel church membership , must first be made disciples , by being taught by the word and spirit of god , and so truly believe in the lord jesus christ , according to the great commission of our saviour , mat. 28. 19 , 20. and the practice of christ himself , joh. 4. 1 , 2. and of his apostles , act. 2. 37. act. 8. 14 , &c. act. 10. and act. 16 , &c. god hath many ways ( as dr. taylor observes ) to save dying infants , which we know not ; he can apply the benefit , and merits of christ's blood to them , in ways we are wholly ignorant of , and ought not to trouble our selves with it : secret things belong to god , but revealed things to us , and to our children . 3. but if we did know which infants would dye , who do belong to the election of grace , or are in covenant with god , yet we ought not to baptize them , because we have no command from jesus christ , so to do ; for it was not the right of infants to be circumcised , because they were in the covenant of grace ( for then all other godly mens children , who lived in abraham's days , would have had the same right that abraham's children had ; nor was it the right of abraham's infants ( whether considered as his natural seed , or spiritual seed , as such ) but it was their right only . by that mere express and positive command of god , to abraham , it was , that , i say , gave all his male infants a right to circumcision , and nothing else : now baptism is also a mere positive precept , as circumcision was then , — therefore none have a right thereto , but such whom christ commands to be baptized , namely believers ; was abraham's females , or his males , under eight days old , circumcised ? or , had they any right unto it , tho' they might be in the covenant of grace ? 11thly , all those that were in the covenant of grace , god made with abraham , had thereby an undoubted right to all the blessings of the said covenant , and also had the privileges , and blessings thereof , by the spirit of god sealed to them , and were made sure of eternal life ; but all those that were in the covenant of circumcision , god made with abraham , or were circumcised , had not , thereby , an undoubted right to all the blessings of the said covenant ; nor had they the privileges , and blessings thereof sealed to them , nor was eternal life made sure to them thereby : therefore , the covenant of circumcision was not the covenant of grace , nor the seal thereof . the major is clear from rom. 4. 16. therefore it is of faith , that it might be by grace , to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed . what seed doth the apostle mean ? certainly all abraham's seed , that the covenant of grace was made with ; and none will deny , but that the promise here comprehends all the blessings and privileges of the covenant of grace ; compare this with that in heb. 6. for , when god made promise to abraham , because he could not swear by no greater , he swear by himself , ver . 13. saying , surely blessing , i will bless thee ; and multiplying , i will multiply thee , ver . 14. and so after he had patiently endured , he obtained the promise , ver . 15. for men verily swear by the greater , and an oath of confirmation , is to them an end of all strife , ver . 16. wherein god is willing , more abundantly , to shew unto the heirs of promise , the immutability of his counsel , confirmed it by an oath , ver . 17. the promise here referrs to the promise , or covenant of grace made with abraham , and 't is as sure to all his seed comprehended in that same covenant , as possibly can be ; the very oath of god is added , besides his faithful word to confirm it ; as to the minor , sure none can dream , that ishmael , or esau , or the ungodly jews that sprung from 〈◊〉 loyns , in their generations , till christ came , had undoubted right to , and interest in all the blessings and privileges of the covenant of grace ; or eternal life , made sure to them : do not we read that some of them were called sons of belial ? and of some of them ( our saviour saith ) they were of their father , the devil . 12thly , all those that were in the covenant of grace , god made with abraham , had thereby a sure and strong ground of consolation , that is , spiritual consolation ; but many of them 〈◊〉 were comprehended in the covenant of circumcision , had not thereby a sure and strong ground of consolation , that is , spiritual consolation , therefore , the covenant of circumcision , was not the covenant of grace ; see heb. 6. 18. that by two immutable things , in which it was impossible for god to lye , we might have strange consolation , who have fled for refuge , to lay hold upon the hope set before us ; which hope we have , as the anchor of the soul both sure and stedfast , and which entereth into that within the veil . now certainly , no man can think , all that the covenant of circumcision did belong unto , had such sure and strong ground of consolation thereby ; for ishmael had none , esau had none , and multitudes more of abraham's natural seed . application . first , i may infer from hence , that they who bring infants of believers into the gospel covenant , or gospel church , err exceedingly , and are severely to be reprehended , there being not the least shadow of ground , for their practice herein from the covenant god made with abraham , secondly , it also appears from hence , that the main pillar of infants baptism , is rooted up , the ax is laid to the root of the trees , the external or natural off-spring of abraham , or by descent from an external faedoral , or covenant relation to him ; or as they are the carnal off-spring of believers . thirdly , from hence also i inferr , that the children of believing gentiles , as such , are not the seed of abraham , to whom the covenant of grace was made : nay , let me tell you , that it appears from hence , that the children of believing gentiles as such , are neither the natural seed of abraham , nor his spiritual seed ; which to open yet more fully , let us now consider all the distinct sorts of abraham's seed , which , i find , were fourfold . 1. christ , personally considered to abraham and his seed , was the promise made , he saith , not as of seeds as to many , but as of one , and to thy seed which is christ , gal. 3. 16. now as the promise referrs to christ , so the infants of believing gentiles , all will say are not abraham's seed . 2. all the elect , or whole body of believers , who have the faith of abraham , and walk in the steps of abraham , these are called abraham's seed : now none can be so blind , as once to suppose , the children of believing gentiles as such , are the seed of abraham . can infants believe in god , as abraham did ? or , can they walk in his steps ? or , which is more , are their natural off-spring as such , of the election of grace ? doth it appear so ? or , doth it not appear , to the contrary ? viz. do not many of their seed prove wicked and ungodly persons , and so liveand dye ? certainly , were they all as such elected , they should be all converted , we are chosen to be holy , &c. eph. 14. 4. and if you be christ's , then are you abraham 's seed and heirs according to the promise , gal. 3. 29. 3. there was another i. e. a natural seed of abraham , to whom the promise was made ; and that was isaac , gen. 21. 22. but the children of believing gentiles as such , or as so considered , are not isaac in that respect , they cannot be the seed of abraham ; isaac was begotten of abraham's natural body according to the flesh , and all spiritual isaac's are regenerated persons . gal. 4. 28. 4. we read yet of another natural seed of abraham , to whom the promise of grace did not belong , as ishmael , and the sons of keturah , gen. 15. 5. but as they were the seed of abraham , none will say the children of beliving gentiles are the seed of abraham : now i affirm , that there is no mention made of any other seed of abraham but these four sorts , if any man can shew a fifth sort , let him : from hence i shall again draw this argument , viz. if the children of the believing gentiles as such , are not the natural seed of abraham , nor the spiritual seed of abraham ; then they can have no right as such to baptism , nor to church-membership by vertue of being abraham's seed : nor are they any ways as such , concerned in that covenant-transaction god made with abraham ; but the children of believing gentiles as such are not the natural seed of abraham , nor the spiritual covenant of abraham : therefore they can have no right as such to baptism , nor to church-membership , by vertue of abraham's covenant ; nor are they any ways concerned in that covenant-transaction god made with abraham . obj. the athenian society in p. 2. of their athenian gazette affirm , that the children of believing gentiles are the spiritual seed of abraham , until by actual sin unrepented of , they are otherwise . answ. to which i answer , ( as i have once already ) that then some of the true spiritual seed of abraham may eternally perish ; for certainly , many children of believers , who when they grow up , proving to be prophane , unbelieving and impenitent persons , and so live and dye , are eternally lost . 1. which if so , the covenant of grace is not so well ordered in all things , and sure , as we believe it is , and the scripture proves it is . 2. 't is also directly contrary to what st. paul positively affirms in rom. 4. 16. therefore it is of faith , that it might be by grace , to the end , the promise might be sure to all the seed , not to that which is of the law , but to that which is of the faith of abraham , who is the father of us all . if this be well consider'd , the plea for our infants , as such , being abraham's , seed is gone for ever : for i from hence argue again , that all that are in that gospel covenant god made with abraham , or are his spiritual seed have the promise of eternal life sure to them : but all the seed of believing gentiles , as such , have not the promise of eternal life sure to them , therefore the children of believing gentiles as such , are not the spiritual seed of abraham . 3. all that are in the covenant of grace , i mean all the true spiritual seed of abraham , have the faith of abraham , and walk in the steps of abraham , and have also all the privileges of the gospel covenant god made with him ; but so have not the natural seed of believing gentiles as such , nor are they by birth , i. e. by being born of believing parents in a better condition than others as such , being all being born in sin , and in the covenant of works : indeed if believers children as such , were in covenant as soon as begotten or born , then they are born in the covenant of grace ; and if so , not the children of wrath by nature , and if in the covenant of grace , then their state is good enough without baptism ; nor doth baptism bring them into it , and if they say as some do , that the children are brought into the covenant of grace by baptism , and so made the children of god , members of christ , and inheritors of the kingdom of heaven , then it follows , they had it not by vertue of being in covenant with their parents ; and then also it would follow , that 't is in the power of men and women to bring their children into the covenant of grace , or keep them out of it ; and so through negligence or ignorance , the parents may damn their children ; and others have power to save theirs , by getting a minister to baptise them . but if they do not suppose their seed as such , are indeed , truly and really in the covenant of grace , what signifies that which they call the covenant , to whom the blessing of the covenant do not belong ? and if it seals not the blessings of the covenant , what doth it seal , or what spiritual advantage do their children receive thereby ? either they have the internal blessings or privileges sealed to them , or else the external privileges thereof , or none at all : now i can't believe they judge they have right ( as such ) to the internal blessings and privileges , for then they must all be saved ; unless those to whom the promise is sure , ( it being confirmed by the oath of god ) may eternally perish ; i know they whom i have to do with , are averse to the doctrine of falling from grace . and if it seals the external privileges of the covenant to them , why are they denyed those privileges ? is not breaking of bread , and church-fellowship , the chief external privileges of the gospel-church ? we know as to bearing the word , prayers of the church , our children enjoy those privileges as far forth , as theirs ; besides , if they be not absolutely in the covenant , but only conditionally i. e. if they believe they shall , &c. even what is that more than what the children of unbelievers have ? shall not they be received into the covenant also , if they believe , and close in with christ ? i cannot learn , that they can inform us of any benefit their children above ours have , who are not baptised , ( or other mens ) by their baptism ; or as they are their seed as such ; tho' 't is evident abraham's natural seed had a right to many external privileges under that dispensation as such ; but i shall now proceed to answer some grand objection made against what i have said . obj. 1. the first is this , viz. there is an exact parallel or parity betwixt circumcision and baptism ; therefore as jewish infants were circumcised , so the children of christian gentiles may be baptised ; thus they argue . ans. i must deny that there is such a parity , or clear parallel , as they intimate between circumcision and baptism ; but if there were , yet the argument is good for nothing : but to prove the first , i. e. and that there is no such parity , but in most things a disparity , will now clearly be evinced . 1. circumcision was a shadow of christ to come , by whom we receive the great antitype of circumcision , i. e. the circumcision of the heart , col. 2. 12 , 13. baptism is a sign that christ is already come ; d●ad , bury'd , and rais'd again . 2. circumcision was a sign of the covenant with abraham's natural seed , above all other nations , and a token to them of many external blessings and privileges : baptism is a sign of the inward and peculiar graces of the spirit the person baptized hath received , if a true subject of that holy ordinance . 3. circumcision only belonged to abraham's male children : baptism belongs to all that believe truly in christ , both males and females , who are all one in christ jesus , no difference in that respect , under the gospel-covenant . 4. circumcision belongeth neither to no male children , but those born in abraham's house , or such who were bought with his money , &c. it did not belong to any other godly man's male children that lived in his days , unless they joyned themselves to his family ; but baptism belongs to all the disciples of christ , or to all true believers in all nations , mat. 28. 19. 20. 5. circumcision was to be done precisely on the eighth day , not before nor after . but baptism is to be done at any time , and is not limited to any precise day . 6. circumcision made a visible impression on the body , which the party might perceive when he came to age of understanding . baptism leaves no impression on the body . 7. circumcision signified the taking away the sins of the flesh , ( or the circumcision of the heart ) baptism signifies the death , burial and resurrection of christ , which circumcision did not . what parity or parallel there is between them , i know not , unless they say that circumcision was the initiating rite under the law , and baptism is the initiating rite under the gospel ; to which i answer , if this should be granted , yet it did not initiate any but male children ; the females were initiated without it , and by the same parity of reason , as dr. taylor observes , no female infant should be baptized , because none but males were circumcised . if they say there is another parity , viz. none were to eat the passover , but those who were circumcised ; so none are to partake of the lord's supper , but such who are first baptized ( we are all baptized into one body , ) yet i must tell them , all those who are circumcised , had a right to eat the passover , and why do they not then follow the paralell and give their children the lord's supper ? as indeed , the first ancient fathers did ( in the declining state of the church ) for many years , they gave children the lord's supper , abusing that text , in the case of baptism , joh. 3. 5. unless a man be born again of water , and of the spirit , he cannot enter into the kingdom of heaven : they taking water there , to be meant of baptismal water , and thought baptism , did regenerate the children , and wash away original sin ; and accordingly , they abused ( and mistook ) that text , in joh. 6. 53. unless ye eat the flesh of the son of man , and drink his blood , ye have no life in you ; and from hence 't was , they gave infants the lord's supper , thinking ( as the papists do ) that our saviour intended the sacrament of the supper . i needed not have repeated these things , and that which follows , but that mr. roth-well of sussex , in his late treatise , still insists on this argument : you have the same in my answer to mr. burket . to this i might add a word or two of a reverend and learned person of our perswasion in this matter , they suppose baptism came in , or succeeded in the place , or room of circumcision ; which may ( saith he ) be understood many ways , as first , that those persons may be baptized , that were heretofore circumcised by god's appointment : and , in this sence , the argument must proceed , if it conclude , to the purpose ; but in this sence it is false , for females were not circumcised , which yet were baptized , act. 8. 12 , 13 , 14. and chap. 16. 14 , 15. and believers out of abraham's house , as lot , melchisedec , job , were not to be circumcised , but believing gentiles are universally to be baptized . 2. ( saith he ) it may be understood , as if the rite of baptism then began , when the rite of circumcision did , or was to end ; but this is not to be said neither ; for john baptist , and christ's disciples , baptized before circumcision , of right , ceased , joh. 4. 1. 2. 3. he answers , that of baptism , succeeding in the place of circumcision in signification ; which , as we have shewed in several respects , it doth not . but secondly , ( as i said ) if there were such a parity , or paralell , between circumcision and baptism , as they intimate , yet it would not do their business ; but thus to argue , as the said learned writer observes , may be very pernitious . for , ( saith he ) indeed if this argument be not warily , and restrainedly understood , an egg is laid , out of which manifest judaism , may be hatched ; but if it be taken restrainedly , it no more follows thence ; but baptism and circumcision , in some things , hold forth the same , which is more plainly said of noah's ark , 1. pet. 3. 22. and the red sea , and cloud , 1. cor. 10. 4. and yet we do not say , baptism succeeded into their place ; much less do we inferr any rite to be instituted in their stead , respecting the same person ; yea verily , it is to be seriously thought on . 1. that by such arguments , drawn from analogies , not conceived by the holy ghost , but drawn out of our wit ; a new kind of instituting r●tes , ( to wit from analogies , ) are brought in ; besides , our lord's precepts , and the apostles examples . 2. this being once said , by a like parity of reason and arguing , it will be lawful to bring into the church , under other names and forms , the whole burthen of jewish rites ; yea , almost out of what you will , to conclude what you will ; for , who shall put a bound to men's feigning analogies , when they go beyond the lord's precepts , and the apostles examples ? it is well known , that the divine appointment of tythes to be paid , and many other things , in the writings of divines , are asserted by this kind of argument ; besides , the rule of christ's precepts , and his apostles examples . 3. hereby will the opinion of the papists be confirmed , who affirm , from 1. cor. 10. 11. the sacraments of the jews , to be types of the sacraments of christians , which is rejected by divines , that dispute against bellarmine . 4. this manner of arguing , will countenance the arguments of the papists , for an universal bishop , because the jews had a high-priest , and justifie a linnen garment at mass , because there was such among the jews ; and for holy-water , purification of women , easter , penticoast , and many more such ceremonies , for which the papists do , in like manner , argue , as appears out of durandus's rationals , and other interpreters : yea , what hinders , but we may give children the lord's-supper , if we argue this way , since samuel , jesus christ , under age , were partakers of the passover ? and , of right , all males were thrice in the year to appear before the lord ; and therefore , it is certain they did eat the passover , &c. least any should take this for a light suggestion , i will add , that grave , godly , and learned men , have often warned , that we are to take heed , that we do not rashly frame arguments from analogies : among others , in their learned writings , in english , john pagit , in his defence of church-government , part 1. chap. 3. pag. 8. and else-where . john ball , in his reply to the answer of the new-england elders nine positions . posit . 2. p. 14. lastly , ( saith he ) it is to be considered , again and again , how by these argumentations , the consciences of men may be freed from the danger of will-worship , and polluting so remarkable an ordinance of christ , as baptism is ; especially this care lies on them , who by prayers , sermons , writings , covenants , and oaths , do deter christians from humane invention , in god's worship diligently , and 't is to be hoped sincerely : thus far this reverend divine . i now might proceed to answer divers others objections , as first , circumcision was a type of baptism . [ 2. ] infants were once in covenant , and never cast out . [ 3. ] circumcision was part of the ceremonial law , which was dedicated by blood ; therefore , no part of the covenant of works , or old covenant . [ 4. ] in circumcision god gave himself to abraham , to be his god , and the god of his seed . [ 5. ] circumcision was the seal of the righteousness of faith. [ 6. ] circumcision was an everlasting covenant . [ 7. ] there is but one covenant of works , and that was made with adam ▪ [ 8. ] paul circumcised timothy , therefore circumcision could not , in it self , oblige to the keeping of the whole law. [ 9 ] the root is holy , therefore the branches . [ 10. ] the privileges of the gospel are restrained , and narrower then the privileges of the law , if children are excluded . [ 11. ] the denying infant baptism , hinders the progress of the christian religion , mr. rothwell , p. 2. finis . the second part is in the press . the quæries examined, or, fifty anti-queries seriously propounded to the people called presbyterians occasioned by the publication of fifty queries, gathered out of the works of mr. rich. baxter. by j. b. wherein the principal allegations usually brought to support infant-baptism are discovered to be insufficient. by t. g. grantham, thomas, 1634-1692. 1676 approx. 92 kb of xml-encoded text transcribed from 28 1-bit group-iv tiff page images. text creation partnership, ann arbor, mi ; oxford (uk) : 2009-03 (eebo-tcp phase 1). a41786 wing g1543a estc r223637 99833926 99833926 38404 this keyboarded and encoded edition of the work described above is co-owned by the institutions providing financial support to the early english books online text creation partnership. this phase i text is available for reuse, according to the terms of creative commons 0 1.0 universal . the text can be copied, modified, distributed and performed, even for commercial purposes, all without asking permission. early english books online. (eebo-tcp ; phase 1, no. a41786) transcribed from: (early english books online ; image set 38404) images scanned from microfilm: (early english books, 1641-1700 ; 1833:1) the quæries examined, or, fifty anti-queries seriously propounded to the people called presbyterians occasioned by the publication of fifty queries, gathered out of the works of mr. rich. baxter. by j. b. wherein the principal allegations usually brought to support infant-baptism are discovered to be insufficient. by t. g. grantham, thomas, 1634-1692. [2], 43, [1] p. [s.n.], london : printed in the year of our lord 1676. t. g. = thomas grantham; j. b. = john barret, whose work is being attacked by the author. quire f is a cancel. reproduction of original in the british library. created by converting tcp files to tei p5 using tcp2tei.xsl, tei @ oxford. re-processed by university of nebraska-lincoln and northwestern, with changes to facilitate morpho-syntactic tagging. gap elements of known extent have been transformed into placeholder characters or elements to simplify the filling in of gaps by user contributors. eebo-tcp is a partnership between the universities of michigan and oxford and the publisher proquest to create accurately transcribed and encoded texts based on the image sets published by proquest via their early english books online (eebo) database (http://eebo.chadwyck.com). the general aim of eebo-tcp is to encode one copy (usually the first edition) of every monographic english-language title published between 1473 and 1700 available in eebo. eebo-tcp aimed to produce large quantities of textual data within the usual project restraints of time and funding, and therefore chose to create diplomatic transcriptions (as opposed to critical editions) with light-touch, mainly structural encoding based on the text encoding initiative (http://www.tei-c.org). the eebo-tcp project was divided into two phases. the 25,363 texts created during phase 1 of the project have been released into the public domain as of 1 january 2015. anyone can now take and use these texts for their own purposes, but we respectfully request that due credit and attribution is given to their original source. users should be aware of the process of creating the tcp texts, and therefore of any assumptions that can be made about the data. text selection was based on the new cambridge bibliography of english literature (ncbel). if an author (or for an anonymous work, the title) appears in ncbel, then their works are eligible for inclusion. selection was intended to range over a wide variety of subject areas, to reflect the true nature of the print record of the period. in general, first editions of a works in english were prioritized, although there are a number of works in other languages, notably latin and welsh, included and sometimes a second or later edition of a work was chosen if there was a compelling reason to do so. image sets were sent to external keying companies for transcription and basic encoding. quality assurance was then carried out by editorial teams in oxford and michigan. 5% (or 5 pages, whichever is the greater) of each text was proofread for accuracy and those which did not meet qa standards were returned to the keyers to be redone. after proofreading, the encoding was enhanced and/or corrected and characters marked as illegible were corrected where possible up to a limit of 100 instances per text. any remaining illegibles were encoded as <gap>s. understanding these processes should make clear that, while the overall quality of tcp data is very good, some errors will remain and some readable characters will be marked as illegible. users should bear in mind that in all likelihood such instances will never have been looked at by a tcp editor. the texts were encoded and linked to page images in accordance with level 4 of the tei in libraries guidelines. copies of the texts have been issued variously as sgml (tcp schema; ascii text with mnemonic sdata character entities); displayable xml (tcp schema; characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or text strings within braces); or lossless xml (tei p5, characters represented either as utf-8 unicode or tei g elements). keying and markup guidelines are available at the text creation partnership web site . eng barret, john, 1631-1713. -fifty queries, seriously propounded to those that question, or deny infants right to baptism -early works to 1800. baxter, richard, 1615-1691 -early works to 1800. infant baptism -controversial literature -early works to 1800. baptists -controversial literature -early works to 1800. salvation theology -early works to 1800. 2007-11 tcp assigned for keying and markup 2007-11 apex covantage keyed and coded from proquest page images 2008-02 robyn anspach sampled and proofread 2008-02 robyn anspach text and markup reviewed and edited 2008-09 pfs batch review (qc) and xml conversion the quaeries examined , or , fifty anti-queries seriously propounded to the people called presbyterians . occasioned by the publication of fifty queries , gathered out of the works of mr. rich. baxter . by j. b. wherein the principal allegations usually brought to support infant-baptism are discovered to be insufficient . by t. g. prov . xix . 21. there be many devices in a mans heart , nevertheless the council of the lord that shall stand . mr. baxter more reas . p. 69. the true method of one that would arrive at certainty , and not deceive himself and others , is to begin at the bottom , and discern things in their nearest and most certain evidences , and afterward to try the by-objections as he is able : and not t● por●first upon the objected difficulties , and judge of all the cause by those . london , printed in the year of our lord 1676. the quaerist examined . or , fifty anti-queries seriously propounded to the people called presbyterians , &c. presbyterian . query 1. whether under the covenant of works , if adam had not sinned , innocents should not have been holy to god , and so members of the innocent church or kingdom of god ? baptist . antiquery 1. whether this be not a groundless and unlearned query ? for seeing the word church , as used in the holy scriptures , signifieth a people called out , namely , from another people , out of what people should they have been called , had the whole world been in the state of innocency ? and seeing no man can tell whether any man should have had authority committed to him in matters of religion , or whether god should immediately have exercised his own government ; neither yet in what capacity children should have come into the world , whether endowed with knowledge or otherwise ; whether therefore it concern or become any man , to let his fancy rove about in such an unknown and unknowable case . and thereupon , 1. suggest how infants should be concern'd or not concern'd in matters of religion ? and how can any thing be concluded from such an imagination , as imitable for us about infant church-membership ? and whether we are not like to have a bad superstructure , when the foundation is a meer fancy ? presbyterian . query 2. whether god was any more obliged to order it so , that the children of righteous parents should have been born with all the perfections of their parents , and enjoyed the same priviledges , than he was obliged in making the covenant of grace , to grant that infants should be of the same society with their parents , and have the immunities of that society . baptist . antiquery 2. more obliged : whether it be not in vain to suppose , that god was obliged at all in either of those cases , seeing he is absolutely free to do whatsoever he pl●aseth with his own ? and what ground have you to believe , that some infants were more concern'd then others in m●tters of religion , by vertue of any covenant made with adam ? and what society was infants capable of with adam , by vertue of any covenant made with him after his fall ? c●rtis the scripture is silent as to these matters , presbyterian . query 3. whether we have any reason , when the design of redemption is the magnifying of love and grace , to think that love and grace are so much less under the gospel to the members of christ , then under the law to the members or seed of adam , as that then all the seed should have partaken of the same blessings with their righteous parents , and now they shall all be turned out of the society , whereof the parents are members ? baptist . antiquery 3. whether you your selves do not lessen the magnifying love of god in mans redemption , whilest in respect of infants you would restrain it to the seed of such parents as are in covenant with god , yea to such infants as partake with them in practicals of religion , which you seem to intend by the blessings you speak of . but who denies any blessing to infants under the gospel , which was their portion under the law made with adam ? and how were infants members of the society of the seed of adam , more then of the society of the baptists ? shew the difference if you can . presbyterian . query 4. whether though our innocency be lost , parents be not parents still , and have not as much interest in children , and whether god have reversed this natural order ? and if god change not his order therein , whether parents be not as capable of consenting to grace for their children , as they were of being innocent for them ? baptist . antiquery 4. whether there be any that question whether parents be parents still , or what need of such enquiries ? or what do you mean by gods natural order ? if you mean natural religion , then shew us what infants are bound ro in matters of religion by natu●e , or what this natural order ties parents to do to their infants , upon the account of practicals in religion , which we omit ? and whether parents could be innocent for their infants , if their infants were not innocent as well as they ? and if not , how should their consenting to grace be the childs consent ? and whether it will not as well hold retro , that the parents consenting to wickedness is the childs consent ? and whether this do not give the parents the power to save or damn their infants ? and can such councils stand with the wisdom , justice , or mercy of god ? presbyterian . query 5. whether infants be not included in the first edition of the covenant of grace made with adam ? ( gen. 3. 15. ) whether unless it can be proved that infants are none of the womans s●ed , we must not take that fundamental promise to extend to infants ? and was she not thereby obliged to l●st her self , and all her infant-progeny in the redeemer's army , against the proclaimed enemy , and to teach her posterity to do the like ; and did they not continue visible members of christs army and kingdom , till such time as they violated that fundamental obligation , and as the seed of the serpent , fought against christ and his kingdom , for satan and his kingdom ? baptist . antiquery 5. whether the baptists do not as clearly assert infants right to the grace of god in the first edition of the covenant , made with adam , as any whatsoever ? and if by the seed of the woman you understand all that are saved , who then questions infants belonging to that seed ? but where is the woman bound to list her infants in the redeemers army , or where shall we finde them visible members of christs army in the first edition of the covenant ? are not these meer words without authority of scripture ? or where did infants ever fight for , or against the serpent ? and if not , why do you make them the seed of the serpent , and fighters against the kingdom of christ ? and if you say , you speak not these things of infants quatalis ; then whether you have not transferr'd the question , and so it is impertinent ? presbyterian . query 6. vvhether in that first proclamation of grace to fallen man , or in the first promise of redemption to sinners , gen. 3. 15. an infant of the vvoman be not promised to be general , and head of the church ? and whether the promise of an infant head , doth not declare gods mind , that he will have infants members , because the head is the principal member , &c. baptist . antiquery 6. whether christ in his infancy was not as truly god as man ? and whether there be any parity between the infants you speak of and christ , seeing he was able even then to vanqu●sh the greatest adversary ? and if by the redeemed church , you mean the whole number of the saved , who doubted but infants were of the redeemed church ? but how doth it follow , that all that are to be saved , ought to be mitted to practical ordinances in the visible church ? seeing then all infants ( for ought you know ) have the same right , which yet you d●ny ; but why so ? are you sure they are not within the verge of christs redemption ? and though christ was once an infant , yet where do you finde tha● he was then a member of the gospel church ? was he not born under the l●w ? gal. 4 4. and born king of the jews , mat. 2 2. and according to the state of the jew●sh church , an infant migh be both a member and a prince ; and was not the ki●gly office in israel a type of christ ? but what is this to he order and state of the church under the gospel ? and fur●her , tho●gh christ an infant was bo●n head of the church as aforesaid , yet in 〈◊〉 infant st●te , he did not intermeddle with the exercise of the least par● of h●s authority . and then whether it be not more r●tional to say , that seeing christ the head of the church did not act●ally poss●ss , or at least not use any part of that power , as an infant , or while he was an infant ? it s therefore unreasonable , th●t infants ( supposn ●h●y were as truly bo●n memb●rs of his church , as he wa● born king of the jews ) should be concern'd in the actual possession of ordi●ances in infancy ? and what if we grant that infants may be disciples by designation , a christ was king , priest and prophet by designation , ( ●ho●gh the cases not al●ke easie to prove ) yet seeing christ was not a prophet ( as you confess ) in actu exercito , how came you to be so bold to bring infants to the ex●rcise of baptism ? and why can you not rather content your selves with the designation or ded●ca●ion of your infan●s to god by prayer , and make them disciples in actu exercito , when they are able ? and whether you may not as well repute th●m thus among disciples , and as safely conclude them to be in the covenant of grace , and of the redeemed church without baptism , as without the lords supper ? sith it s said , except ye eat of the flesh of the son of god , and drink his blood , ye have no life in you ; as well as it is said , except a man be born again of water , &c. he cannot enter in●o the kingdom of god. and whether dr. taylor , a learned pedobaptist do not ingeniously confess , that the wit of man is not able to shew a difference in these cases ? presbyterian . query 7. why are those two titles put on those two distinct generations . ( sc●l . the posterity of cain , and the p●st●rity of seth ) calling one the sons of god , ●nd the others the daughters of men , gen. 6. 2. but that the one was a generation s●parated from the church from their birth , ( their progenitors being cast out before them ) when the other was the seea of saines not cast out , &c. baptist . antiqu. 7. whether this text gen. 6. 2. be not ambiguous , insomuch that your own doctors are not agreed about the exposition thereof ? but supposing it to respect the posterities of cain and se●h , yet whether it can be meant of infants , seeing they committed none of these si●s , in taking wives , &c. and whether your exposition do not damn all infants proceeding from cain●s posterity , and consequently all the infants of all nations which profess not the true religion ? and supposing that the infants of godly parents are in some sense more immediately related to the church , then the infants of pagans by reason of the prayers and designation of their parents , and the opportunities of education ? yet what makes this for any actual participation of ordinances in the church , and what one ordinance did the infants of these sons of god partake of ? and sith the scripture is wholly silent of any such thing , whether this do not more strongly conclude against infant-baptism then for it ? and whether it be needful to say any thing to the latter part of this query , seeing we grant all , and somthing more then this text will prove , though we deny them actual right to ordinances ? and whether the common or equal overthrow of these generations , in respect of the infants of both , do not evidently shew , that as to the business of their salvation , they were in the same condition ? and then whether it be safe for us to conclude , that the wickedness of any progenitors have any further effect upon the infant-ch●ldren then to expose them to external calamities , seeing christ died to redeem them from the condemnation brought upon them by adam ? rom. 5. 18. presbyterian . query 8. whether it was not the same church be●or● , and after abrahams time ; that was called the tents of sem ? gen. 19. 27. was not the jewish church denominated the tents of sem ? a●d does it not hence appear , that the church-priviledges of that people did not begin with or from abraham , but that they were b●for● ? and how was it the same church that was of s●m , and of abraham , if it had not the same sort of members or materials ? &c. baptist . antiqu. 8. though it be true , that the church is the same in some sence , from the beginn●ng of the world to the end ; yet whether it may not truly be said also , not to be the same in divers respects ? and whether the cov●nant as made with no●h , gen. 9. do not differ from the cov●nant as ma●e w●th adam , though both was made with all mank●nd , and is affirmed to be the c●venant of grace by mr. baxter . and whether there was not yet a further difference b●tween these and the covenant as made with abraham ? gen. 17. the former being made with all manking , and never yet abrogated , ( as saith mr. baxter ) . the other was made with abraham and his seed , distinct from the rest of mankind , but as they should be profelited thereto ? and though the church may be denominated the tents of shem , b●th before and after abraham , yet whether this conclude there was to be no alteration of the state of the church under these times respectively ? and whether in any of the tents of shem , before abrahams time , so much as any one infant can be found admitted to the practical part of any ordinance in the church , which was peculiar to her as such ( for as touching prayer , it is a moral duty , and to be made for all men . ) and whether thus boldly to suppose a thing without the least shew of proof , be not a plain begging the main thing in question ? and though it be never so true , that the universal redeemed church consist of the same materials in all ages , yet whether it be not evident that that god made a difference , as to the time of dispensing ordinances to them ? as first no practical ord●nance or 〈◊〉 dispensed to any infant that we read of till abrahams time ; and though then circumcision was ordained for males , yet not for all the male children , for all under eight days of age were prohibited , and yet you grant th●y were in that covena●t , nor any rite at all for the females , who yet were of the same church ? and whether under moses they were not admitted to other rites also , as the pass●over , sacrifices and other holy feast , of the jews ? we therefore ask you why the infants of converted gentiles are not in as good a condition , without any rite or ceremony , as the infants of all the faithful from adam to abraham ? and whether those infants before abraham were not a happy as the infants of abraham ? and then doth it not follow , that the infants of faithful gentiles , are as happy without circumcision , or any other rite or ●eremony whatsoever , as abrahants was under a ceremony , seeing god hath not ohliged them to any in the days of the gospel , o● since the ab●ogation of the law and circumcision ? presbyterian . query 9. whether if we could shew no written law or promise at first constituting the duty , or granting the priviledge of church-member ship , it were the least disparagement to our cause , as long as we can shew those following , laws which presuppose this ? if moses at the end of that 2000 years the church of god had bin without any written law , found all the infants of church-members in possession of this b●n●fit 〈◊〉 what n●ed was there of a new law about it ? or why should god promise it as a new thing ? baptist . antiqu. 9. whether if there be any such law , you would not have she wed us where it is , longere this day ? and whethen you do not now grant in effect there is no such written law ? and what n●ed you thus to query , seeing we deny no lawful thing to infants , to be done for them by their godly parents , but only oppose your doing that for which you have no law ? presbyterian . query 10. whether there being certain proof in scripture of infants church-membership , but none except that before , alledged from gen. 3. that makes any mention of the beginning of it , but all speaking of it as no new thing ; we have not great reason to assign its beginning , which from gen. 3. is before spoken of ? baptist . antiqu. 10. why do you say that gen. 3. 15. makes mention of infants church-membership , ( otherwise then what we allow ) is here the least hint of your mode of making infants church-members , that is , doth this place bid you admit them to any ordinance ? as for the gracious covenant here made with adam . do we not grant that it extends to infants , yea , we say with mr. baxter , it was never abrogated ? presbyterian . query 11. is it not unquestionable , that the covenant of grace made to abraham the father of the faithful , comprehended infants for church-members ? and was 〈◊〉 not the same with that gen. 3. 1. 5. but in some things clearlier opened ? were not both these the covenant of grace and free justification by faith in the redeemer ? and did not the covenant made to abraham and his seed , comprehend infants ? and should not the same promise , expressed more concisely be expounded by the same expressed more sully ? baptist . an. 11. though it be unque stionable that the covenant of grace did extend to infants , gen. 3. 15. as well as in abrahams time , yet there was a vast difference in respect of ceremonies . and whether the difference between the baptists and p●dobaptists be not chi●fly ( if not only ) about imposing ceremonies upon infants ? and whether it be not evident that what ceremonies the word of god did even assign to infants , we allow them , respecting the time of their duration , and only oppose your imposing ceremonies upon infants , for which you can assign no authority in the holy scriptures , as is confessed by many pedobaptists . see mr. baxters cure p. 7. presbyterian . query 12. whether ( though the hebrews had their peculiarities ) it be at all credible , that the infants of that one small countrey only should be so differently de●lt with by god , from all the world else , even enoch's , noah'● , sem's , and all from adam to the end of the world , that these infants only should be church-members , and n● others . baptist . antiqu. 12. whether this query ( as indeed almost all the rest ) do not mis the true state of the case , seeing the baptists may and do in a good sence acknowledge infants to be related to the churc● . viz. by redemption , pious dedication to god. &c. and seeing you grant the hebrew , had their peculiarities , in what thing could it be but in external rites and ceremonies , especially concerning infants ; and shew us , if you can , any one nation under heaven , from the beginning of the world to this day , to whom god gave any law to bring their infants to any rites either legal or evangelical . and sith circumcision was forcibly put upon infants , we ask whether you be able to prove , that any person whatsoever are to be forced to baptism , which augustine tells us . infants do strive against with great crying , from whence he infers they have no faith. lib. de pe●cat . mer. & remis . chap. 28. presbyterian . query 13. what can be more absurd , then to maintain a transient fact ( as mr. t. hath done ) making infants church-members , without any law , promise , ●r covenant-gra●t of god giving them r●ght ? whether a gift that was never given be not a contradiction ? ( v. p. 32 , 35 ▪ 39 44 , 45 , 151. ) and if there was any such promise , or covenant-grant of infant 's church-membership , when , or where was it revoked ? baptist . antiqu. 13. whether these things be surely suggested against mr. t , and whether you ought not to have set down his opinion in his own words ? and whether he doth not mainly oppose himself against mr. baxter's pretended law for infant church-membership and baptism , whiles yet he denies not infants a saving promise , or the promise of saving prepriety in god. antipedobapt . 3. part. p. 33. and whether that book was ever answered by mr. baxter , or ever will by any other ? presbyterian . query 14. was it only the infants of the hebrews , or of those that were at their absolute dispose , that were church-members ? vvere not the infants of free proselites church-members too ? baptist . antiqu. 14 , what need of this query ? who doubts but that as many others as became jews by being proselited to the law , were circumcised according to the law ? but where do yo● find , that any , either jews or gentiles , when they were baptized , had any , obligation to baptize their children and servants also ? presbyterian . query 15. vvas it not then the duty of all the nations round about , that could have informati●n of the jewish religion , to engage themselves , and their children to god by circumcision ? and did not many of the people in hester's time become jews , hest . 8. 17. who yet were not under their government ? and is it not well known , that this was to be circumcised , they and their little ones , ( as the proselites were ) and so to keep the law of moses ? and whether the circumcised servants of israel , sold away to another nation , and so separated from the civil state of israel , did eo nomine cease to be church-members , though they for sook not god ? and ●o of the infants , if they were sold in infancy ? and so whether infants might not be church-members , that were not of the jews common-wealth ? baptist . antiqu. 15. although other nations had the liberty to become jewes , yet whether they were under such an obligation , as that they must become jewes , or else not be saved , is worthy consideration ; and whether the contrary will not be found true , when the case of cornelius , act. 10. and of the gentiles , rom. 2. are duely considered , whereas the one is accepted as fearing god and working righteousness , as much as the jew upon the account of his jewish worship ? and the other gentiles generally , who did by nature the things contained in the law , were counted the circumcision , so as to judge the jew , who only had the circumcision in the flesh ? and not only so , but so as to be accepted of god , as far ( at least ) as the righteousness of the law would avail the jew ? and whether the infants of these devout gentiles was not free from any obligation to circumcision , or any other external ceremony ? and whether there be not an evident difference between the law and the gospel in this , the one being fitted to the jewish nation only , so as to be capable of an orderly observation there only ? and the gospel fitted sor the observation of all nations equally , and consequently all nations equally obliged to the full and orderly profession thereof ? presbyterian . query 16. vvere not the israelites children members of the universal visible church , as well as of the congregation of israel ? as he that is a member of the city is a member of the kingdom and a part of a part , is a part of the whole ; so was not ever member of the jews church also a member of gods universal church ? baptist . ant. 16. whether it be well said to call the universal church visible , and whether the universal church did not contain many thousands such , as job , cornelius , &c , who were neither jews by nature nor religion ? and whether no infants might be said to be members of the universal church , who were not members of the jewish church ? and if not , how shall they be saved , seeing christ is only the saviour of his body finally ? presbyterian . query 17. was there ever any true church , or ecclesiastical worshipping society appointed by god in all the world since the fall , but the church of christ ? were not infants therefore either members of christs church , or of no church of gods institution ? was not moses christs vsher , and moses church and christ's church one according to god's institution ? baptist . antiqu. 17. whether this query be not either captious , or else impertin●nt ? for though it should be granted , that the church of christ was the same in some sence from the beginning , yet who knows not that the time and way for admission of the members thereof to external ceremonies , was not always the same ? and who doubts but the church was always of gods institution ? but doth it therefore follow , that the ordinances instituted therein , belongs to infants ? might they not have the passeover , as well as circumcision , in the mosaical church , and yet have neither the lords supper nor baptism in the christian church ? you deny them the one , why may not we as well deny the other ? baptist . query 18. whether was abraham made a member of the church by circumcision , or circumcised because a member of the church ? the like of infants born in his house ? and how can the ceasing of circumcision prove infants church-membership ceased , any more then it can prove their church-membership began with circumcision ; or that women were not church-members , because not circumcised ; or that all israel was unchurched in the vvilderness , when they were uncircumcised for fourty years ? baptist . antiqu. 18. although abraham was in the church of god essentially by faith , yet whether formally in that church-st●te , vvhich god was then about to settle , till circumcised , vvill not , i suppose , be hastily affirmed ? and how can infants be said to be in the church , as abraham then was , seeing they have no faith as he had ? and whether the jewish church-state did not cease de jure , when circumcision so ceased ? and then whether that state of infant church-membership did not also cease ? and like as the ceasing of the passeover de jure , was the ceasing of infants right to any such ordinance , even so we ask why the ceasing of circumcision de jure , is not as truly the ceasation of infants right to any such ordinance ? certainly , if gods word assign any ordinances in lieu of the former , the place where 't is written would have b●en known to this day ? presbyterian . query 19. vvhether the blessing of abraham consists not chiefly in this , that god promised to be a god in covenant with him , and his seed ? and how are the believing gentiles blessed with faithful abraham , and heirs of the same promise , if their infants are not also comprehended in the same covenant ? baptist . antiqu. 19. whether the blessing of abraham , ( if you understand it of eternal life ) were not the blessing of the fathers that were before him ? and whether that blessing did not belong to their infants ? and whether their infants were partakers with them in any rites or ceremonies of instituted worship ? and if not , then , why may not the infants of the gentiles partake of the blessing of abraham , though not concern'd in rites or ceremonies ? or whether you think the blessing of abraham is confined to ceremonies in respect of infants , if so , shew us what ceremonies these are ? presbyterian . query 20. whether in that great promise , gen. 12. 3 tribes , kindreds , families , do not most certainly comprehend infants ? as it was to such families that the promise was made before christ , as to the jewish church ? vvhat warrant have we to understand families or tribes otherwise , when the same promise is made to the gentiles ? baptist . antiq. 20. whether you ought not to distinguish in this great promise , the things which are eternal from the things that were but for a time ? and then whether you can ima●in● , that all the temporal blessings , rites and ceremonies , ●oncern●d any nation , as it concerned the seed of abraham after the flesh ? but if by this promise you understand it as the apostle paul doth , gal. 3. 16. th●n we doubt not but all the kindreds of the earth are con●●●n'd in it ; and then whether we do not sufficiently comprize the ●●ntiles therein ? but how can abrahams rites and c●remonie● be part of this blessing to the gentiles , which are abrogated long ago ? presbyterian . query 21 , whether the second commandment , exod. 20 , 5 , 6. doth not contain a standing promise , and discove●y of gods resolution , concerning the children of all that love him , whether jews or gentiles , to whom this commandment belongs ? whether god meaneth not that his retribution to parents that love or hate him , shall extend to their children as such ; unless they interrupt it at age by their own acts ; and if to their children qua tales , then whether not to infants ? baptist . ant. 21. whoever doubted but that infants are advantaged many ways , in the blessings which god bestows on them that fear him ? and accordingly greatly disadvantaged by the wickednefs of their pa●●nts , even so as to bear their fathers iniquities many times , as is evident in the overthrow of the old world , the cities of sodom and samorrah , &c. yet whether the blessing or mercy of eternal life to ●nfants , depend upon the parents love to god ? and whether the ●amnation of infants depend on the wickedness of their parents ? ●nd whether the bless●ngs of the second commandment belong 〈◊〉 to the church as such , or whether all men that follow the ●ules of morality , are not within the reach of these blessings also ? ●nd then how should infant church membership and baptifm be 〈◊〉 blessings of the second commandment seeing this law concerns 〈◊〉 men as m●n being part of the moral law , and is not proper to ●he church only ? presbyterian . query 22. vvhether any without the church are secured of gods mercy by p●omise ? and whether mercy be not promised to the children of the f●ithsul as such ? ( see p●al . 102. 28. and 103. 17. prov. 20. 7. isa . 61. 8 , 9 and 65 23 &c ) ? baptist . antiqu. 22. whether god hath not said that his ways are all equal ? and whether this do not secure infants of gods mercy , though not baptized ? ( for otherwise we say infants are of the redeemed church ? when god saith , that the son shall not bear the iniquity of the father , and every one shall bear his own iniquity , whether this be not a promiss of mercy to infant children , and that in respect of etern●l life ? and whether the query be not near a kin to that position of the papists when they say , out of the church there is no salva●ion , restraining that word church to visible or actual professors only ? and why must these five quotations be applied to infants only , sith the things spoken of these children , seed , or off-spring , are mostly such as are exclusive of infants ? presbyterian . query 23. whether these promises in the making of them were limited to a certain time when they were to cease ? or whether they have been since revoked ? baptist . suppose these promises yet remain , as we doubt not but they do , sith they are not entail'd upon the jewish nation , ( at least the three first quotations , ) how will this avail to the point in hand ? are all the blessings of god to the infant off-spring of those that fear him , &c. bound up in your supposed church-membership and baptism ? presbyterian . query 24. if it was on the jews rejection of christ , that they were broken off from being gods people , were those thousands of jews that believed in christ so broken off ? if not , then whether were not the children of all believing jews church-members in infancy ? or otherwise , was it not somewhat else then vnbelief that brake them off ? baptist . antiqu. 24. whether was those that cried , his blood be upon us and our children , thereby rejecting the great mess●nger of the covenant , ●ustly broken off ? and whether the renting of the vail of the temple , did not shew the abrogation of the covenant and the legal ministry ? whether was saul broken off when he persecuted the church causing many to blaspheme ? and how could the jews lawfully be married to christ , if moses was not now removed , without being called an adulteress ? and then whether those thousands of jews which believed were not first broken off , so as to plead no longer upon this issue , we are abrahams children , we are free-born , &c. and to look upon circumcision and whatsoever was gain to them on a legal acco●nt , to be loss for christ ? or is there any other way to be graffed in to the church of christ , but by faith ? nowtherefore seeing the jews were in no better case then th● gentiles , circumcision being now nothing , even as uncircumcision was nothing , b●ta new creature ? then whether all the infants of the jews now ceas●● to be m●mbers of any visible church , seeing ●heir parents had de jure lost their memb●rship ? presbyterian . query 25. were not the infants of the christian jews the day before their conversion members of the jewish church , and of gods universal church , ( of which the jews were but a part ? and doth it not sound strengely , that such infants as were the day before members of the jewish church , and of gods universal church , should be put out of the jewish and the whole visible church , by the faith of their parents , or without unbelief ? either it was a mercy to be a member , of the church , or not : if it was no mercy , then will it not follow , that the unbelieving jews lost nothing by being broken off ? if it was a mercy , how did the christians children forfeit it ? baptist . antiqu. 25. whether we have not sufficiently shewed , that the infants of the jews were now no members of the jewish church , that being now abrogated , and the gospel church state confirmed by the death of christ , and the pouring out of the holy ghost ; neither could two distinct church states stand together de jure . and then whether it be not a great mistake for the q●aerist to suppose the jews were a part of gods universal church , when in truth they were no church at all ? and therefore whether the wonder which he makes about the jews infants which believed , be not groundless ? and yet whether the infants of the believing jews were not in a far better estate , then when their parents were unbelievers , sith the curse they then had imprecated , was now removed ? also whether it was not a mercy , that both parents and infants were set free from circumcision , which whatever it was before , now ceased to be a mercy to any man , because it was an obligation to the yoke of bondage , and rendred christ unprofitable to such as should now receive it ; and consequently a release from that church-membership according to the law , was a great mercy to infants , who still retain membership in the invisible church , as they did before circumcision was in being ? presbyterian . query 26. whether it be credible , that he who came not to cast out jews , but to bring in gentiles , breaking down the partition-wall , and making of two one church , would have a chureh of so different form and constitution , that the church at jerusalem should have infant-members , and the church at rome should have none ? that the jews infants should be members , and not gentiles ? if the jews were broken off by unbelief , should they not be graffed in again upon their repentance of faith ? and so should not every repenting believing jews infants be church-members ? or otherwise how would their graffing in answer to their breaking off , should they be but in part graffed in ? baptist . antiqu. 26. whether it be not a great mistake to say , that christ came to make the jew and gentile one church , otherwise then by taking away the jewish church , and making all things new , 2 cor. 5. 17. &c. and whether this might not be done without setling any of the practical ordinances upon infants as under the law ? if otherwise , why have you not shewed us where christ hath required parent● to get their infants baptized ? and where he forbade them to be brought to imposition of hands , the table of the lord , &c. if the denial of the first make our infants no members of the church , doth not your denial of the other two , which do as generally pertain to members of the church , make yours none also ? and if the church at jerusalem , rome , &c. had any infant-members therein , in the sence wherein you would have them members , why do you not name some one infant so made a member , sith you know it would suffice , wherher if the jews grafting in , must in all points answer to their breaking off , their infants must not come to other ordinances as well as baptism ? or will you say infants cannot partake with their parents of salvation without baptism ? or whether was the infants of the jews exposed to damnation by their parents unbelief ? and if so , what is become of all their infants ever since ? presbyterian . query 27. was not christ church spiritual before his incarnation ( when it took in infants ) and gathered in a spiritual way ? was not ●he visible frame of the jewish church set up and erected by the father of spirits , and were not spiritual duties commanded then ▪ upon promises of spiritual blessings , even lise eternal ? how will any prove that it was a blemish to the old frame , that infants were members ? what was the church the worse for infants rights ? if it be no blemish , why must it be done away ? baptist . antiqu. 27. though it be true , that christs church was always spiritual in some measure , and his services such also ; yet whether it be not also true , that the church under the law of moses was carnal , in respect of the spirituality of the church under the gospel ? does not the apostle say , 2 cor. 3. these two ministrations differ as much as letter and spirit differeth ; and that the glory of the one had no glory in respect of the glory which excelleth ? and is it not then rational , that the churches concern'd under these ministrations respectively should differ aecordingly ? and though it was no blemish to the jewish church , to have infants partakers of their ordinances , which are called carnal , yet whether it be not a more perfect state , when the church do al● know god , from the least to the greatest of them ? and whether this be not the state